# safe comb storage



## Kyle Meadows (Jul 14, 2006)

Hi all,
I've lost 4 out of 6 hives so far this winter, and plan to restart with fewer hives this spring. What is the best way to store all the unused comb? A local old-timer uses mothballs on newspaper layered between boxes, but is that really good for the combs?
Thanks for any advice!


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## Troy (Feb 9, 2006)

NO NO - not mothballs. Moth Flakes are the right material.

Mothballs are naphlalene 

Naphlalene - BAD

Moth Flakes are made of Para di-chloro benzene (PDB for short) - 

PDB is GOOD.

With PDB you must make sure there is no honey, nor pollen in the cells, only empty comb. The PDB odor will air out in a day or two from empty comb, but the pollen or honey will hold the smell for a long time and the bees might even abandon the box if it were too strong.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Troy said:


> PDB is GOOD.


Really?

*Contamination of wax and honey by paradichiorobenzene (PDCB)

*http://www.beesource.com/pov/lusby/waxmoth.htm


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

PDB is probably an improvement over Naphthalene. I would not use either. As long as the combs are frozen they keep quite well and if you can pile them on the hives when the was moths start to show up then the bees can guard them. If you spray them with Certan (Bt) you can also protect them without the chemicals.


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## Brent Bean (Jun 30, 2005)

If it’s below freezing you won’t have problems, Michael’s suggestion about using Certan, B-401 is best you can buy it from Sundance on this forum he sells it in powder form for a very good price. You spray the comb and no more wax moth problems. I have had first hand experiance and will use nothing else. 
Also if you keep a light with the supers exposed this will also keep the moths away for the most part.


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## Troy (Feb 9, 2006)

I agree with the sentiment about PDB - I don't use it either. I was exaggerating so the original poster would use the right thing.

As for keeping stored combs frozen - that is a real challenge here in Orlando, FL. We have yet to have one night get down to freezing, so I can't leave it out for even a day.

My chest freezer is full and I'm rotating frames in and out to try to hold the wax moths at bay, but I am losing the battle.

I'm going to try the Bt Aizaway spray next.


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## Kyle Meadows (Jul 14, 2006)

*cedar chest?*

Thanks for all the replies.
My wife pointed out that wool items are safe from moths when stored in a cedar chest, and she wondered if storing frames in a big cedar chest would deter wax moths.
Anyone ever try that, or know if it would work?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I've had cedar boxes (both the siding kind and the closet kind) made from scraps back when I was a carpenter. I never saw any difference in the number of wax moths.


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## Dinor (Mar 6, 2007)

I use an old freezer in my garage that is still functional. If I have some comb with moth larvae in it, I put it in the freezer switch on for a few hours, switch the freezer off then keep the comb in there until I want to re-use it. It remains sealed against further infestation.


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## Focus on Bees (Mar 6, 2006)

Dinor

I think I would need a big walk in type freezer...hhmmm.....


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## kenpkr (Apr 6, 2004)

*Moth-tight storage after freezing*



Troy said:


> My chest freezer is full and I'm rotating frames in and out to try to hold the wax moths at bay, but I am losing the battle.
> 
> I'm going to try the Bt Aizaway spray next.


If you were to store those frames (after you freeze them) in a container that would exclude moths, then you wouldn't have any problem. Any storage container that kept moths out would do. Tape up the seals if you have to. 

The Bt Aizawai does work nicely! 
I recently heard from a commercial beek that wax moths will not bother with any wax that has not had any brood raised in it. So, if that is true, only the brood frames have to be treated. The frames of wax that has only held honey doesn't attract the moths, according to this guy. Anybody confirm this?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I recently heard from a commercial beek that wax moths will not bother with any wax that has not had any brood raised in it.

Simply not true. But they do PREFER wax with cocoons in it.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

kenpkr said:


> If you were to store those frames (after you freeze them) in a container that would exclude moths, then you wouldn't have any problem. Any storage container that kept moths out would do. Tape up the seals if you have to.
> 
> The Bt Aizawai does work nicely!
> I recently heard from a commercial beek that wax moths will not bother with any wax that has not had any brood raised in it. So, if that is true, only the brood frames have to be treated. The frames of wax that has only held honey doesn't attract the moths, according to this guy. Anybody confirm this?


Some "organic" beekeepers refuse to even use Bt. I resisted using it until now -- I refuse to use paradichlorbenzene, so I finally tried the Bt. Now I wish I hadn't waited so long. I made an effort to produce comb last season so I would have some available for this seasons honey flows. It isn't the first time I've worked at producing comb for use the next season -- every other attempt ended with a major wax moth feast and no usable comb. Once they finish with the dark, older, comb, I've seen them turn even pure white beeswax into a mass of frass and webbing. This time I obtained some of the Bt product from Sundance and used it. Now I have over 100 empty combs, ready for building colonies and storing honey. I've kept them in the only safe place I have -- in unoccupied supers stacked in the shade outside.
I just spent a few hours sorting through my stored combs and separating out these categories -- Pierco foundation in wooden frames, Pierco one piece, PF-120s in original one piece or cut out and inserted in wooden frames, beeswax foundation and foundationless: old brood comb to be used in swarm traps, malformed to be melting down, mostly drone comb for honey storage or drone raising, mostly small cell for brood and nucs for queen rearing. I scraped the build up propolis from each end bar and evaluated each comb as I did so. My inspection for wax moth larva found no live larva, and only evidence of three or four having attempted to eat on the combs. Such a wonderful difference from years past.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

What pushed me to use the Bt was what I saw in two nucs last year. Hand sized patches of emerging brood that couldn't get out of their cells, then they died there in their cells -- when I tried to pull them out (alive or dead), they just wouldn't budge, so I dug down, what did I find? Wax moth larva and their webbing had trapped the bees in their cells. I decided I'd give Bt a try. If Bt keeps that from happening to brood again it will be worth it for me.

Seeing those beautiful young bees -- alive, but unable to escape from their cells. Put me in mind of being buried alive, buried alive in their cradles, a horrible thing to happen to any living creature, horrendous to witness. I don't want to ever see it happen again.


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## berkshire bee (Jan 28, 2007)

*what is bt?*

Being lucky enough to live up north I can store frames outside in the freezing cold. Sorry if this sounds dumb but what exactly is bt and where does it come from? Does it accumulate in comb or is it at all harmful to the bees or people. Thanks


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

Bt is _Bacillus thuringiensis _a bacteria that hosts/is lethal to many larval stages, mostly of butterflies and moths, though other insects are also hosts to some strains of the bacteria, such as Bt. variety israeliensis, which is the strain used to control mosquito larvae. Bt. variety aizawai is most effective and more commonly used to control wax moth larvae and several other caterpillars, including diamondback moth larvae. Often times the active compounds from the bacteria are what is used for the control, rather than the live bacteria, though both are present in some formulations.


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## Sasha (Feb 22, 2005)

I s it possible to store combs , some of them still have sugar water in them (most of it capped) also some honey I guess. I dont have freezer big enough and no BT. I heard somewhere that I can use acids for this. Any ideas?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

If you have room to freeze one frame at a time and you freeze them overnight to kill any eggs and then put them somewhere that moths can't get to them they will keep for quite a while.


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