# Anythin else I can do to control SHB



## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

djs, so sorry to hear about the shb problem. we have them here too, and they cost me two hives last year.

hear is what i am doing now, and so far this year i haven't had any problems:

1. i use solid bottom boards.
2. my inner covers are notched front and back, but i have them screened.

these two things limit the entry of beetles and moths to the bottom entrance only, which is guarded well.

3. i keep my hives in mostly sun, with a little afternoon shade.

i tried locating some hives in shaded areas, and i helped a friend tend to his hives which are in mostly shade, and there were way more beetles in these hives. i moved mine back to a mostly sunny spot and now there are very few beetles.

4. i keep one disposable 'better beetle blaster' trap in every deep and medium box , (i get them from mann lake). i use regular vegatable oil in them, and i mix a little over-ripe banana and apple cider vinegar in with the oil. if i get a few beetles in a trap and the oil gets dingy, i'll replace it.

5. i try not to have much more space in the hive than there are bees to fill the space.

6. i only inspect the hives when needed, and i kill any loose beetles i find with tweezers.

even though i know there are beetles around, it's not too unusual to not see any running loose during an inspection, and i have some traps that are still beetle free since spring. so far so good this year.

i hate those little buggers.


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## rweakley (Jul 2, 2004)

How much space are you making your bees defend? With an infestation that bad, I would be stripping them down until the bees covered every frame in every box. Do me a favor and kill as many as you can so they don't head this way!!!  They don't seem to be as bad this year, I am guessing it's the drought. That or I've just got awesome bees that hate SHBs as much as I do.

Rod


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## DJS (May 7, 2012)

Rod I went out and killed a bunch last night during half time the sun was setting and they were coming out. Squashed everyone I could catch 25 or more. I seen them during the drought but since the rain has came the last week they seem to be more of them. I may try to move my new hive to a spot that gets more sun but space is limited in my backyard.


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## rweakley (Jul 2, 2004)

My theory is that bugs like the Hive Beetles and Japaneese beetles that pupate in the ground are activated or triggered by moisture. Probably has to do with no moisture no plants, no plants, no food for evil beetles. I noticed this summer that on nice days after a rain (not that we had many DROUGHT) the japaneese beetles would be out in the millions (I wonder if the chickens got tired of eatting beetles?) and then when it was dry they would disappear until the next rain.

So all we have to do is figure out a way for bees to make honey with no rain and the beetle problem is solved. LOL


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## Slow Modem (Oct 6, 2011)

I have put the plastic between-frame beetle jails in my hives. I am going to check them in a little while. My hives are in full sun, and I have only seen one or two beetles so far. There might be more that I'm not seeing, so that's why I put in the beetle jails.

I have some freeman beetle traps (the screened bottom board type) ready to install, but unless the beetle population increases, I may wait until next year to add those.

It is supposed to be sunny here all week, so I am going to reapply diatomaceous earth (DE) around my hives. That is supposed to slice the larvae (and ants and other critters) up as they crawl through it. I assume it works, as I don't have an increasing population of beetles yet.

The more I look, the more options for beetles I find. I'll probably try them all at least once eventually. That's just part of the learning experience, the way I see it. 

Good luck!


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## DJS (May 7, 2012)

Thanks for all the suggestions and help. Greg where can I get diatomaceous earth.

I will keep up the battle and kill every SHB I can


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

DJS, I lost a weak hive from a swarm to wax moth earlier this summer. This is my first year and when I looked in and saw the mess...well, I certainly don't want to see the results of a beetle sliming. With that in mind I'm looking at several options and angles to combat them. Here's a thread where I modded my screened bottom boards to (cheaply) accept oil trays. I include some other things I did to help combat the beetles other than the oil trays. There might be something you can use in there.

http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...-tray-mod-for-sbb-s&highlight=simple+oil+tray

Best wishes,
Ed


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## Slow Modem (Oct 6, 2011)

DJS said:


> Thanks for all the suggestions and help. Greg where can I get diatomaceous earth.


I got mine at tractor supply store.

http://www.tractorsupply.com/red-la...s-earth-with-calcium-bentonite-20-lb--1019864


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

I think all of the ground pupating insects are really pushed back by drought. Since my ground is basically concrete right now, even the cicadas that normally hatch in may were slim, and I saw a dying one last week - which means it hatched in August (they live 3 weeks.)

I keep pondliner under my hives, and de under the pondliner, water the apiary very scarcely - just wildflowers and an elm back there. I did see a sudden burst of shb the last time we had rain, but not more than 9 in a hive, and I got at least half of those with my hive tool. I added beetle blasters right afterward, got about 3 per blaster, grapeseed or olive oil in the blasters. My hives are in sun over half of the day.


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## DJS (May 7, 2012)

Ed thanks for the Ideal, that would be esier then building my own metal trays. They ones I built seem to work they have killed lots of SHB but they keep coming. 

Greg thanks for letting me know where to get the DE

Gypsi I will try adding a liner under my hives when I move them. We have also had a drought this year but my hives are near my garden and I keept it water. I wonder how fare the SHB will go to get in the ground to do their thing.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

I keep my garden watered, but the closest patch of garden is 35 feet and a privacy fence away from the bees. The apiary is hot, sunny and dry, I toss a hose out there a couple of times a week to give the wildflowers a sip.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

DJS, what is in your garden? Beetles are well known to have heavy populations in watermelon fields...especially where the melons have been harvested and there's rotting ones still there. Other kinds of fruits are attractive, also. Compost piles...

I seem to recall reading that the larvae will burrow down to 18 inches. It depends on the structure of the soil. A hard-packed soil will be hard for them to burrow down into. A nice friable garden soil would be a vacation resort for them. The larvae have been known to crawl 100+ feet and to crawl across hot asphalt. Tough critters! 

Gypsi, I agree with you about the ground pupating insects depending on moisture levels. We've just experienced a rather heavy invasion of "love bugs". They pupate in the ground and we've had a moist season for our area.

Ed


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## TooFarGone (Aug 19, 2012)

DJS
I found this Youtube video on an entrance trap that has me thinking a lot about this approach.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egLroAZ_Qn0&feature=channel&list=UL

Worth watching the video.


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## dfortune (Aug 10, 2012)

Intheswamp said:


> We've just experienced a rather heavy invasion of "love bugs". They pupate in the ground and we've had a moist season for our area.


Tell me about it. There's nothin i "love" about em. They just got all over my fresh paint job.


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## DJS (May 7, 2012)

It was suggest that I use Checkmite+ to control the SHB infestation. Has anyone use this to control mites?


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## dfortune (Aug 10, 2012)

I use it in beetle barns. It has mixed results but in most cases it worked well. Some traps had maybe 75-100 beetles. A few had none.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

I have compost piles all over, but they aren't kept wet, especially in the summer. They just bake in the sun til the rain comes. And most of the compost material is pond stuff, leaves, aquatic plants, some dead fish, gravel, organic goo. Had more shb after a rain about a month ago than I've ever seen before.


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## DJS (May 7, 2012)

Gypsi said:


> I have compost piles all over, but they aren't kept wet, especially in the summer. They just bake in the sun til the rain comes. And most of the compost material is pond stuff, leaves, aquatic plants, some dead fish, gravel, organic goo. Had more shb after a rain about a month ago than I've ever seen before.


Do you think compost piles make their numbers higher? I have one not to far away from hives but never seen any SHB in there.


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## mmmooretx (Jun 4, 2012)

I have tried the nematodes, link below, which have been in the ground for 3-4 weeks and may be seeing a reduction. I also put the weed cloth for gardening under my hives that I periodically sprinkle with DE. However I also have sprinklers and "astroturf" in front of my hives like virginiawolf, so my ground is always damp. My hives are in the shade and we have gumbo clay dirt here. I just ordered one of the beetlejail entrance traps referenced in the video above plus one of there frame traps that also has the bottom section for drone foundation (clever idea). I am going to install both of their products in the same hive, my strongest (double brood deeps) hive to see how well they work. They should be here, plus the foundation, in a week or so, report will be some time after that.

http://www.bugsforgrowers.com/products/heterorhabditis-indica

http://beetlejail.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=39&product_id=67


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

Someone upthread said compost made the numbers higher, but I don't think so.
I use beneficial nematodes every spring. I only water the apiary enough to keep scattered wildflowers in it alive, pretty much just watering the plant roots, so I do lose my nematodes in summer, but by then they've handled the higher reproductive stage of most critters like fleas and beetles. 

If I had a bunch of rotting watermelon in my compost piles it might contribute to shb. but I feed watermelon rind to my mealyworms and hens. And I keep my hives in the sun, shb hate the sun. I also have sbb, some with sticky-boards underneath (and some with boards but no sticky til I get the bees booted off the boards.)


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

DJS said:


> Do you think compost piles make their numbers higher? I have one not to far away from hives but never seen any SHB in there.


SHB are scavengers at heart. They seek rotting fruit and are often seen in watermelon fields (as mentioned above). They like to feed on all the busted, rotting fruit left in the field. I don't think they are that particular on the type of fruits or vegetables(?) that they eat. It is almost as if they need to eat things that are already partially digested/rotted. It depends on what goes into the compost heap...if it's oak leaves and cow manure then it's probably ok...throw some over-ripe peaches, or bananas, or...watermelon, or...?? and the compost pile might become a beacon for them.

Ed


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## DJS (May 7, 2012)

Mike thanks for the suggestons. Like that beetle jail. Soon I will have so many traps there will be little room for bees. But what ever I can do to kill them little pest.


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## DJS (May 7, 2012)

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone.


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## Ramona (Apr 26, 2008)

We were recently in Florida at a bee meeting where Dr. Peter Teal from the ARS office in Gainesville spoke on SHB. Apparently SHB prefer very ripe fruit to any products of the hive. Cantaloupe is a favorite. It was suggested that placing ripe cantaloupe pieces outside the hive would be a great attractant if you are able to monitor the traps every few days to replace the fruit. Not doable for remote locations or commercial beekeepers but a great option for folks with a few hives close by.

I would definitely use chickens to feast on the beetles.

Ramona


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## David Cassity (May 16, 2012)

2 weeks ago I put 2 oil containing traps in my one hive. I opened it today and the trap was empty but I killed about 10 beetles saw running around.also on another thought. I have one super about 1/2 full of partially capped honey. This is on top of 2 deeps. My hive is absolutely full of bees. Do have enough for to winter my bees?


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

I'm finding beetles in my yellow jacket traps (the 2 liter bottle with vinegar & banana peel kind.) so to enhance the effect I added a couple of thin pieces of watermelon rind to each trap. I'm not seeing many in my hives these days, actually I saw one today, dropped off the bottom of the super and I stepped on it.


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## Slow Modem (Oct 6, 2011)

I've been thinking (I know, a dangerous thing!). On one of my hives, I have popsickle sticks between the box and the telescoping top for ventilation. The inner cover is below the box, and entrance feeders are on top of the inner cover. The hole in the side of the inner cover is stopped up. I haven't put a popsickle stick next to a hive beetle, but I wonder if they could get in between the top and the box, since the top is a popsickle stick's width above the box?


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

I have seen hive beetles slip through some pretty thin slits. If I need to vent my hive I build a vent layer out of 1x2, drill holes in the sides and put screening on them. I have too many shb for the stick prop high tech solution. (but I use migratory covers without inner covers in summer)


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## Vermillion (Feb 10, 2012)

Where I live, we all use screened bottom boards with oil traps and keep the hives in full sun as much as possible. But what is most critical is proper bee space, and making sure the bees can patrol all areas of all the frames. My commercial beekeeper friend mentors new beeks on the weekend, and drives this point home repeatedly and constantly! Last week we saw a hive that had been, as a result of beekeeper error...overrun by SBH and was crawling with larvae and had several frames slimed. The reason: When someone did a hive inspection, two frames with honey were pushed too close together--probably not replaced in their original position---the honey cells were damaged, bees were trapped between them and died, and the other bees were not able to get in there and clean it up in time. This type of thing is club med for beetles. And whenever he has a slime-out, it seems to be due to the bees not being able to clean up any mess in the hive, or because there are not enough bees to patrol the outer frames.

We never put empty frames on the outside unless it is absolutely necessary. A frame with no comb drawn out means the bees are not working it, and it is an easy part of the hive for the beetles to hide.

Each time you pop the top of the hive you are setting the beetles free by disrupting the holding areas the bees build for them, to keep vigilant with your hive tool when you open the hive and be ready to smash them. Smoke will drive them down into the oil trays as well, so if you have a heavy number of adult beetles you can smoke them into the lower parts of the hive as you are closing up and the bees will chase them.

I found two SHB in my kitchen, on the windowsill near the bucket I keep my compost in before it goes outside. 

I hate them!


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

David Cassity said:


> 2 weeks ago I put 2 oil containing traps in my one hive. I opened it today and the trap was empty...<snip>


Did you have anything to lure them into the oil? 

Ed


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Slow Modem said:


> <snip>... I haven't put a popsickle stick next to a hive beetle, but I wonder if they could get in between the top and the box, since the top is a popsickle stick's width above the box?


Greg, is your top covers, inner covers and hive boxes all completely flush with each other? There's a chance you have a gap big enough for a beetle to crawl through even without the popsicle sticks. Inner covers seem to mesh well with the top box and then the bees seal it up...it's the gap between the inner and outer cover that indeed is the problem. I would think at least the smaller beetles wouldn't have to much of a problem doing the limbo the height of a popsicle sticks' thickness. I feed with quart mason jars on top of the inner covers. What I've done with a couple of hives is to sit one jar over the porter escape hole and the another one on a 2-3/4" hole I cut into the inner covers. I've stapled house screen over these holes. With the lid of the mason jars in close contact with the screen the bees feed through the screen. No SHB or wax moths are getting in through there....the only entrance the bees have to defend now is the bottom one.

Ed


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## Slow Modem (Oct 6, 2011)

Intheswamp said:


> I would think at least the smaller beetles wouldn't have to much of a problem doing the limbo the height of a popsicle sticks' thickness. I feed with quart mason jars on top of the inner covers. What I've done with a couple of hives is to sit one jar over the porter escape hole and the another one on a 2-3/4" hole I cut into the inner covers. I've stapled house screen over these holes. With the lid of the mason jars in close contact with the screen the bees feed through the screen. No SHB or wax moths are getting in through there....the only entrance the bees have to defend now is the bottom one.


That makes sense. I'll remember that next year. Now that it's cooling off, I think I can pull the popsickle sticks and put the telescoping cover directly on the super around the feed jars, eliminating that possible entrance.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

squarepeg said:


> djs, so sorry to hear about the shb problem. we have them here too, and they cost me two hives last year.
> 
> hear is what i am doing now, and so far this year i haven't had any problems:
> 
> ...


i think i'll have to add a number 7: i stopped killing fire ants around the bee yard.

not by design, but by procrastination.

come to think of it, those shady yards where i saw so many beetles were well kept yards and i bet their owners eradicated the fire ants.

a quick google search revealed that fire ants have been shown to eat shb larvae. hmmmm.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

Fire ants also eat bee larva. I lost my first hive to ants, probably fire ants - with a solid bottom board I might add. Not much deters a hungry fire ant.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

yikes! i have several mounds near the hives, but i never see them going into the hives, and don't see them during inspections. i wonder if it matters how hygenic the bees are.

afterthought: back in the day when i thought i needed to feed syrup, there were some small ants getting into the feeders, may have been fire ants.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

matters how hungry the ants are. I used beneficial nematodes early this spring. After losing hive 1 last year I put hive 2 up on a platform with cd's on the bottom of it's sbb, on top of pvc pipe fittings, with screen to keep bees out, over oil in peanut butter lids, to keep the ants out.

The screen kept the bees out. I am now defending 7 hives, so I went to pipe over cinderblocks so I could grease the pipe. Wasn't working, I think the ants helped induce one departing swarm, not sure. gave up. I use pond liner on the ground under my hives, got Amdro ant-block (does 14 species and put it under the pond liner, so even if it rains, the bees won't be drinking it.) 

Finally no ants after the hives. Now you are in Alabama. Would you like to test some Texas fire ants?


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

My mentor's best friend (my back-up mentor  ) said he'd never poison fire ants around the bee yard again unless they were observed actively raiding a hive. He thought he would "clear" the yard of fire ants and so poisoned them....then the beetles kicked things in high gear. The ant population has recovered (don't they always?) and the beetle population has decreased....coincidence? Whatever the case, in my mentor's friend's mind he has drawn a connection between to the two. He's in his mid-80's and has been keeping bees since he was six years old so I figure he knows a little about what he's doing. He's very strong minded about the ant/beetle relationship. 

Ed


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

Well I haven't seen more than 3 beetles in a hive since I got the hot hive out from under the elm tree (had to keep it away from humans). And I darn sure poisoned the ants in the immediate vicinity of the hives. I had carpenter ants, sugar ants, and I think pharoah ants, and the bees were plenty pissy and doing excessive propolizing around their feeder jars. I've got drought, and dearth, 3 of my largest hives have thrown swarms (all caught and kept so far), and I finally put the antblock under the pondliner on Saturday evening after I got done working the hives. And the bees are settling down.

Your mentor can do what he likes. I don't have a beetle problem, but the beneficial nematodes weren't handling the ants, esp the carpenter ants, and they really like larva.

Gypsi


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

>Now you are in Alabama. Would you like to test some Texas fire ants? 

no thanks. 

7 hives huh, nice recovery gypsi.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Gypsi said:


> <snip>
> 
> Your mentor can do what he likes. I don't have a beetle problem, but the beneficial nematodes weren't handling the ants, esp the carpenter ants, and they really like larva.
> 
> Gypsi


...my mentor's friend will do as he likes. I was just sharing what I've seen and been told by someone that I respect. You can do as you like, also.

Ed


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

Not intended to be rude, but all beekeeping is truly local. And in my little corner of Texas ****roaches don't live, few beetles make it. But the ant species variation and population is utterly incredible. When the rest of the state isn't in drought, even 10-20 miles away, my place is still high and dry, the ground like concrete. it is ant country, not beetle country Good for bees, not so good for forage.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

squarepeg said:


> >Now you are in Alabama. Would you like to test some Texas fire ants?
> 
> no thanks.
> 
> 7 hives huh, nice recovery gypsi.


Thank you SquarePeg - I only bought 2 nucs and a queen. The rest were swarm and cutout, and reproductive swarms off 2. (My neighbor caught swarm number 3 and went and bought himself a suit and some woodware.)


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