# Over Wintering Yellow Jackets



## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*Over Wintering. A Western Paper Wasp (Mischocyttarus flavitarsis)*

Here is a photo of paper wasps over-wintering in a dead out. These are the source of bee predation later in the year. Each one that you see develops her own paper nest. They did not last long when they were introduced to my hive tool1.








Paper wasps are often mistakenly called yellowjackets by the non-entomologist. These wasps are much longer in body and have a very thin "wasp-like" waist. They make nests under the eaves of houses, in bushes, in empty boxes and garden pots, etc. These nests are relatively small, consist of only one layer of comb for brood rearing and are never covered with a paper envelope (that is, when you look at the nest, you can see the wasps and the comb; yellowjacket nests are covered with a paper envelope). Paper wasp nests only reach a colony size of about 100 wasps. Paper wasps are brown and yellow whereas yellowjackets are usually black and yellow.


Ernie


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## Bizzybee (Jan 29, 2006)

Those are what we refer to as paper wasps. I know that names can be confusing in the wasp world. What we have are also referred to sometimes as paper wasps. The nests are similar except that our yellow jacket version is mainly subterranean and will sometimes be found in a closed structure like a house wall.

We also have a lot, many varieties of paper wasps that build like yours do. And they can be found in empty hives or hanging out under tops. They are usually red or brown but about the same size and body build your yellow jackets have. Hateful critters they are! Very defensive of their nests and don't tolerate abuse anytime. Our yellow jackets are the same as well. Problem with them to often is that they are hidden from site underground until you step on them or disturb the ground some way. Then you know they're there, when you run away with a angry crowd of bees on your tale and 20 or 30 stings later!  They test the hives constantly later in the season. Probably irritates me more than the bees. There's little that gives me more pleasure than wacking as many of all the wasps that I can find.  

No, not really.  I try to control them some around the bees and keep them out of my space where living together isn't easily done. Other than that, I think some of them are pretty to look at and interesting to watch. They are just another one of Gods creatures trying to make a living and survive like the rest of us. Some of them help quite a bit with other insects and critters that are more of a nuisance than they are. 

By the way, nice pic bees!


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## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

Like has already been pointed out, these are paper wasps (_Polistes_ is the genus, _Vespula_ is the genus for yellowjackets). Big difference in social organization: paper wasps are social, and each female can and will lay eggs; yellowjackets are eusocial, so only the queens can lay fertilized eggs (like honey bees).


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*Vespa*

here is a closer photo for ID. Ernie


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*Vespa Germanica*

_Vespa germanica_
Do you have this introduced species?
Ernie


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*By the way, nice pic bees!*

Thanks.
I am still understanding how my new camera functions.
Ernie


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## Bizzybee (Jan 29, 2006)

Looking at some pics of _Vespa germanica _I can only say that we have some that look like that. I can't say for sure? When they get started up this year I'll get my yellow jacket traps going around the hives and take some pictures of all the different ones that show up. I'm guessing there are at least a half dozen different ones around here. They range in size from that of a fruit fly to that of a honeybee. I never knew that there were so many different ones around. A couple with markings that I have never seen before.

I've also seen some pretty cool paper wasps in the past couple of years that are new to me.(or at least they appear to be paper wasps) Amazing colors on some. Very interesting behaviors also. They seem as curious about me as I am about them.


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## Hambone (Mar 17, 2008)

I think you have Mischocyttarus flavitarsis. Western Paper Wasp

http://bugguide.net/node/view/45845/bgimage

http://www.insectimages.org/browse/subimages.cfm?SUB=11327


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## ScadsOBees (Oct 2, 2003)

I find the overwintering YJ's or hornets in the fall, they overwinter in leaf cover. Whoo hooo, those mama's are big 'uns! They make impressive bug collections for the kids

Yeah, the wasps are more of a pain in the kiester, though! Madam wasp, meet Monsieur Hivetool...


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## Scrapfe (Jul 25, 2008)

Bizzybee said:


> Looking at some pics of _Vespa germanica _I can only say that we have some that look like that. I can't say for sure?...


http://www.forestpests.org/publichealth/socialwasp.html

This sight gives good descriptions and pictures of the most common South Eastern wasps. Notice the similarities between the Eastern and Southern yellow jackets and the Guinea Wasp. All three of these are bad news for the picnicker and gardener. You have never lived until you experience the adrenalin rush one gets from weed eating or mowing over the Southern Yellow Jackets’ underground nest. The largest is the Red Wasp. A really painful stinger too, but you usually have to trash talk about its mother to rile it up a Red Wasp. 

As a young boy I was the terror of the Blue Gill slough and the Shell Cracker hole. I would collect an 8 pound orange sack full of fresh wasp nests and hang them up in the peach orchard till needed. Needless to say there was always a new crop of nurse wasps of every species on the nests when I went to fetch fresh fish bait. I became quite a connoisseur of wasp stings and their relative levels of pain, swelling, and the likely hood which one would get you. :lookout:


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## Troy (Feb 9, 2006)

I too continue to be amazed at the number of different species of bees and wasps. 

I'm beginning my 4th year beekeping and durin that time have become more aware of all the different kinds of bees.

We have one here in Orlando, I only see it in the fall and it is HUGE. They average I'd say 1 1/4 inches and I saw one last fall that was like 2 inches long. They are kind of scary.

They are so big I can wack them out of the air (sometimes) with my hive tool.


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## Hambone (Mar 17, 2008)

Troy said:


> I too continue to be amazed at the number of different species of bees and wasps.
> 
> I'm beginning my 4th year beekeping and durin that time have become more aware of all the different kinds of bees.
> 
> ...



I bet you are seeing the cicada killer. Pretty scary. But not not illed tempered.


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## mike haney (Feb 9, 2007)

*Hornet*



Troy said:


> I too continue to be amazed at the number of different species of bees and wasps.
> 
> I'm beginning my 4th year beekeping and durin that time have become more aware of all the different kinds of bees.
> 
> ...


if this was a true(aggressive) hornet you would not smack at them twice. they laugh at a bee suit and can and will repeatedly sting, then go get help from their hive. (add mad laugh here) this is the voice of experience!


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

*Want to rent out that hive?*

Right before returning home from California I was contracted to grade some hives for another grower. 
I can tell you for certain that MANY of the hives that I opened had less stinging insects in them than your picture.
Maybe a bit off topic, but all too true.


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## c10250 (Feb 3, 2009)

Derek said:


> I bet you are seeing the cicada killer. Pretty scary. But not not illed tempered.


Here's one I filmed. My Kid's reactions to it are funny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Om7QAI112Dw


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## USCBeeMan (Feb 7, 2009)

I too think that the huge wasps were cicada killer wasps. I have plenty of them in my yard. They make huge piles of dirt as they build their homes in the ground to lay eggs and leave a cicada to feed the eggs. I have a bunch of pictures that I have taken of these wasps. Their venom is not suppose to be harmful to us. At least that is what I have found on the 'Net. 

Use to see wasp nests in the wild that sometimes would measure 2 or 3 feet across in SC. They would be in a bush or tree near the water. You would see them while fishing in a boat. I was always carefull when fishing in the "woods" or swampy areas in a lake, river, or pond.

Guess that's why beetle spins work so good when fishing. They are shaped just like wasp larva.


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## dcross (Jan 20, 2003)

Scrapfe said:


> Notice the similarities between the Eastern and Southern yellow jackets and the Guinea Wasp. All three of these are bad news for the picnicker and gardener.



They have their benefits in the garden, but they also sent my cousin to the ER when he was weed-eating.


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## USCBeeMan (Feb 7, 2009)

"Notice the similarities between the Eastern and Southern yellow jackets and the Guinea Wasp"

I started to mention Guinea Wasp. I have been stung by them when I was younger in SC. At least that's what my uncle and dad said they were. I walked up on a nest in the ground and they almost ate me up. They hurt as bad as the big red wasps.


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## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

Back to the topic, and sorry about this, but the wasps in the pictures are not _Vespula germanica_, and are not _Mischocyttarus_.

The wasps are clearly in the genus _Polistes_, but which species would need closer examination of some specimens.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*Back to the topic, and sorry about this*

I know the genus and specie of the wasp in the photo.
I asked about the germanica because it was introduced into this country and is established in certain areas. It's another introduced pest.
Ernie


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*Yellow Jackets*

http://wasps.ucr.edu/waspid.html


History
In southern California, the most widespread yellowjacket has historically been the native, western yellowjacket, Vespula pensylvanica. The German yellowjacket, V. germanica, became established in the Northeastern U.S. in the 1970s and then the Pacific Northwest in the 1980s where it spread down the coast. It reached southern California in 1991 becoming part of our fauna. There are other Vespula species as well but they are not nearly as common in urban southern California, and they are not considered to be pests. 

Species differences
Yellowjackets are adapted for temperate climates so therefore, you find more species in the northern than southern United States and more in northern California in comparison to southern California. There are differences among the yellowjacket groups that translate directly into whether a particular species is an urban pest yellowjacket.


First, the non-pest yellowjackets. In the western U.S., yellowjackets belong to either the genus Dolichovespula or Vespula. Within the Vespula species, there are several groups, most notably, the Vespula rufa group and the Vespula vulgaris group. The Dolichovespula wasps and those of the Vespula rufa group are strictly insectivorous. What this means to humans is that they are beneficial wasps because they eat many disease-spreading or crop-eating insects like flies, caterpillars, grasshoppers, etc. that are detrimental to humans. These insectivorous wasps ARE NOT scavengers for meat and, therefore, they are not pests at our picnics, outdoor receptions, campgrounds, etc. There are several species of these wasps in southern California (Dolichovespula arenaria in the mountains, V. sulphurea, the California yellowjacket in the mountains and foothills, V. atropilosa, a montane species, and north of Santa Barbara, one might find V. consobrina). These wasps typically make small colonies with only a few hundred wasps at peak population and the nests typically die out by the end of summer. These wasps may occasionally seek out sweets from our sodas and fruits, however, most of the time, they leave humans and their food alone and they rarely show up in yellowjacket traps.


In contrast, the pestiferous wasps are members of the Vespula vulgaris group, which have nests with peak wasp population numbering in the several thousands and they continue their life cycle well into the late autumn. Although they do collect insect prey, they also scavenge meat which puts them into contact and conflict with humans. These are the wasps which harass us at outdoor eateries, theme parks, receptions and picnics, congregate at bakeries or candy factories, seek out spilled sodas at sporting stadiums, etc. Basically, their scavenger behavior puts them into interaction with humans which increases the potential for sting incidents as well as being a nuisance which could curtail or cancel outdoor activities. In southern California, there are two species representing the V. vulgaris group, the western yellowjacket, V. pensylvanica and the German yellowjacket, V. germanica.


There are subtle behavioral differences between the western and German yellowjackets. The western yellowjacket appears to nest predominantly in hilly areas and makes its nest in the ground in abandoned rodent burrows. Therefore, one typically finds the western yellowjacket around natural areas, in foothills and such and rarely finds them in the middle of urbanized regions. In contrast, the German yellowjacket typically makes nests off the ground and hence, uses wall voids and cavities in places like palm trees that are covered by fronds. Because of their association with homes, German yellowjackets are found in urban areas where previously, yellowjackets had been absent for years. Because areas of southern California differ so markedly, we are attempting to determine how the population composition of the two yellowjacket species changes as one moves through Los Angeles.


It is important to know where each species is dominant because there are species differences in food preferences which could be important in the development of control measures. These food preferences would be fine-tuned in order to maximize control efficiency, using the best bait for the specific species.


How to identify yellowjackets

Yellowjackets are amazingly easy to identify to species. Most of the time in entomology, if you try to identify an insect to species you must dissect out some very obscure body part and compare it to some arcane illustration. With southern Californian yellowjackets, you use coloration and markings that you can see most often without a magnifying lens. First of all, you need to know that you have yellowjackets because despite what may seem very simple, many people still mistake other flying insects as yellowjackets
Ernie


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## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

> I know the genus and specie of the wasp in the photo. -BEES4U


Sorry, I thought you were believing that the wasps were _Vespula_ (not to be confused with _Vespa_, which is a different genus) _germanica_.

But please note that the wasps in your photos are not _Mischocyttarus_. They are _Polistes_. Obvious visual difference -- the petiole (the "wasp waist") in _Mischocyttarus_ is considerably longer and more obvious than the petiole in _Polistes_. The wasps in your photos are definitely _Polistes_.


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## Robert Brenchley (Apr 23, 2000)

Interesting that you put the nuisance they cause down to scavenging for meat. Over here, it's usually late summer and early autumn, and I've always seen it attributed to the collapse of the nest leading to the workers foraging for anything sweet.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*Paper Wasp? - Polistes aurifer*

Here is a nice photo that was taken in the Rancho Santa Ana Botanic gardens;
Paper Wasp? - Polistes aurifer
Rancho Santa Ana Botanic Gardens, Claremont, Los Angeles County, California, USA
July 14, 2005


http://bugguide.net/node/view/24312
Ernie


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