# Doing a TBH Nucleus Colony



## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

Okay, this morning I stocked the TBH nuc. I took the queen and five frames of sealed/emerging brood from a full-size hive. I caged the queen, then shook the nurse bees from the frames into the TBH nuc. I then placed the nuc where my first queen cell builder of the season has been until now, moving it elsewhere. I took the bees from the queen cell builder and shook them in with the nurse bees and queen. I replaced all the top bars and will wait and see. By Saturday I plan to check on them and release the queen if she's still in the cage (there is a candy plug, but if they haven't released her by Saturday I think she should be free to do her business).


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## bigevilgrape (Aug 21, 2008)

Looks good. If you wanted to make a habbit of nucs to sell maybe you could make the bars extra long so they would fit a few different width hives and would just hang over then ends of the nuc. I'm looking forward to seeing how this works out for you


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

I started a couple of top bar hives this year - one by hanging the short bars in my lang hives, and another by starting 19" (regular length) bars and then cutting them down to fit in the TBH after they were drawn out. Both of these methods worked just fine, but it has occurred to me that you could avoid all that comb mangling by starting combs that are smaller than the full sized hive is going to be, and then fastening them to the bottom of the permanent top bars. That way your smallish combs could be used to start any size of TBH hive.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

At first they seemed reluctant to get started building comb. Wednesday, 1 June I stocked them with lots of house bees and a caged queen (the house bee's own queen), and I fed them a quart of 1:1. But, by Saturday, 4 June there was still very little comb and I discovered the queen had died in her cage with the candy only 3/4 removed. I quickly gave them a new queen and cut a 1" deep strip of comb from the bottom of a foundationless frame. I wedged the strip of comb into a wide groove I cut into the bottom of one top bar. I coated the groove with liquid beeswax then pushed the comb into the groove until the beeswax solidified, holding the comb in place. I placed this top bar in the center of the hive. This hive holds six 1-5/16" wide bars with a 3/8" wide gap left over. I made a small bar to close this gap. So I've been removing the gap-filler bar, and separating the top bars in the center of the hive (the space of the gap), to invert the feeder jar over the opening. The bees have now begun taking the second quart of syrup and comb building is going strong, the comb starter strip is an almost complete comb, the queen has been released and the comb has been laid with eggs. Some comb has been built on all six top bars.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

That's a pretty slick idea - using a strip off the bottom of a foundationless frame as a starter. Sounds like you're rolling now.

So, I'm guessing that you use the same 5/8" entrance along with solid bottoms on your mating nucs? And that's enough ventilation in Tucson?


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

Actually the mating nuc condo's have #8 hardware cloth for their bottoms.
- - - - -

I am keeping an eye out for the ventilation of the top bar nuc. There are small cracks between the top bars (I cut them out of scraps of 2x4 on my band saw and left them kind of rough), and the bees haven't yet propolized them shut - perhaps they won't. I attached the hardboard bottom onto this hive liquid-tight using Titebond III and have been pouring a quart of 1:1 in there each evening for the past several evenings -- the combs have been growing fairly quickly and several of them have crops of brood coming along nicely.

Around here I never place hives or especially nucs in sun, only in the shade provided by strong healthy mesquite trees, shade cloth, and walls of living bamboo plants.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Ah... My curiosity is because I'm building some new mating nucs and heat is an issue here as well - not like AZ of course. I've been using 4 frame mediums (2 in an 8 frame box) - some with screened bottoms, and some without. Entrances from about 9/16" to 1 1/8. Smaller helps prevent robbing, but the bigger size lets in more air, and is easy to plug with a bottle cap. haven't really had any noticeable problems yet because of ventilation - a little bearding as they get strong. In this area keeping them in the sun really seems to help with SHB.

I'm trying to figure out the cheapest simplest design that works in my area. Solid bottoms are really quicker and easier for me to do because the cuts are made on the table saw instead of with metal snips. Also, I have to deal with cold weather as well to get an early start. Still - don't want to cook them either.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

I have also pre-cut pieces of 1-1/4" thick styrofoam panels to place beneath the condo nucs if it seems appropriate to reduce air through the screened bottoms and another piece to place on top of them if and when it rains.

I suppose, too, if I were to provide the condo mating nucs with liquid-tight hardboard bottoms I could feed them, when that is needful, by pouring a little syrup in during the evenings.

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I am certainly hoping that SHB never find my region to their liking -- I'm sure their presence would make my operation just that much more challenging.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

Well, this top bar nuc has five numbered top bars with comb guides and one unnumbered top bar with an attached strip of comb used as starter guide. A total of six top bars, The first comb was built from the comb starter strip, then combs were begun on top bars number 1, 2, 3, and 5. For some reason they started those combs, but only built little wax ridges on top bar number 4. There is some brood and sealed brood in many of the combs. In order to get top bar number 4 going I fastened a small strip of foundation to the comb guide -- the bees have begun drawing it into comb. Every night I pour a quart of syrup into the bottom of the top bar nuc and every morning it is robbed out. Fortunately there is no fighting and the robbers have stopped short of doing any destruction inside the nuc. Also, each night the nuc bees seem to be able to use some of the syrup and expand their combs.

Tomorrow morning I am planning to staple a piece of #8 hardware cloth over the entrance as a robber screen -- hopefully it will reduce the robbing in the same way a robber screen on a hive works.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

The "robber screen" has been in place now for a few days, but this morning I think they were "robbed-out". Despite the screen and a 5/8" entrance hole, there was way too much hostile activity at the entrance and fighting bees on the platform beneath the TBH nuc. Some even gave me grief when I was there checking it out.

After it cools off, about 1800 - 1900 tonight I will check to see if they're still surviving -- I need to find a way to feed them so they won't be such targets for another robbing spree.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

Okay, I checked on them about 1930 hours. They were okay, but completely cleaned out of any food. I poured another quart of 1:1 into their bottom board feeder area. I removed the spacer bar and replaced it with a piece of folded #8 hardware cloth for ventilation and plugged the entrance. This time I plan to give them a chance to build something with the food I feed them before the bullies come again and take it all away.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

I've been feeding some weak nucs what amounts to pollen patty that I made from candy left over from last winter - crushing it and mixing with just enough water to make it spoonable. I've been slathering some of that right on the top bars - a small enough amt that it gets cleaned up within a day or two to prevent SHB from laying in it. It's robbing season here too, but so far I haven't set off robbing with this. What I'm using contains mega bee (which they really lap up) but you might try the something like this with a paste made out of just sugar. How are your regular mating nucs dealing with robbing?


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

Curiously with all the other nucs, they appear to be able to fend the robbers off. I watch and there are tussles with apparent attempted robbers, but they seem to be holding their own. But I haven't needed to feed the other nucs, they each have at least an entire frame of honey in reserve, and have been able to forage enough for their daily needs -- perhaps some of them are part of the TBH nucs troubles. I know that some of their need is for protein to feed brood, and I've made a batch of pollen substitute. I believe I can give them more of that, instead of the sugar syrup and the robbers won't be able to deal with that as easily as they do the syrup. Thanks for the idea.


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