# Dagrin's TF Decision and Questions



## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

You should already be in the main spring flow for your area so it is not likely they need to be fed. Re the frames, too much too soon. Let them finish drawing the frames they have and get established, then they will draw the foundationless frames. They should be on 6 frames in 2 more weeks. After that, depending on local flow conditions, they may need to be fed through the summer.


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

i am west of you in ny. we have not had any honey flow yet. cooler april and may so far in the upper northeast, not way cold but just no warm days and a lot of cold rain, the flowers are late... i would suggest either plastic or wax foundation for a hive body or 2 until you get started then you can mix in some foundationless if you wish . your health certificate indicates that you bought a good story.


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## Clayton Huestis (Jan 6, 2013)

Could be that the queen is from the treatment free stock and they bought bulk bees to make packages.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

welcome to the subforum dagrin and thanks for starting the thread, we're looking forward to tracking your experience.

the terrain around kissee mills looks very promising for hosting a feral population. you might consider setting out some swarm traps next season and seeing what you come up with.

at last count there were 4 missouri members that have posted in the 'tf member listing' thread':

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?320882-treatment-free-member-listing

you may want to reach out to them for information that may be pertinent to your location.


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## 117866 (Jan 27, 2017)

Clayton Huestis said:


> Could be that the queen is from the treatment free stock and they bought bulk bees to make packages.


The part that concerns me is that on their website, if you pick up packages, the pickup address in indeed the state of the company, however, no mention of out of state bees are mentioned for shipped packages. The site also states that all of the bees were raised on small cell, top bar hives with no foundation. If they did fill the bulk of the package with bulk bees from Georgia, I think that they should state that on the site. In any case, I have the bees and they are gentle, and seem to be doing okay for a package. I certainly will not be purchasing any future packages if it can be helped. With the knowledge that there are at least 3 other "TF" keepers in Missouri, perhaps I can work out something with them in the sad case that I murder my girls. I will be reading heavily on queen rearing as my next endeavour, but at the moment, I just want to give them the best chance possible for the winter.


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## 117866 (Jan 27, 2017)

squarepeg said:


> welcome to the subforum dagrin and thanks for starting the thread, we're looking forward to tracking your experience.
> 
> the terrain around kissee mills looks very promising for hosting a feral population. you might consider setting out some swarm traps next season and seeing what you come up with.
> 
> ...


Yep, I already am in contact with another MO member and they've offered to assist in the eventuality that I need it. Very glad to be here


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

Clayton Huestis said:


> Could be that the queen is from the treatment free stock and they bought bulk bees to make packages.


dream on.


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## msl (Sep 6, 2016)

did you order from goldstar?


> They are raised on small-cell foundation, making them ideal for all hive types where the bees will make their own wax.
> *snip*
> They are raised in northern Georgia and the great state of Tennessee.


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

Dagrin0707 said:


> Have I made another grave mistake by providing a mixture of the plastic foundation and the foundationless frames?


You're beginning a, hopefully, long journey. Relax. Don't sweat all this right now. Your bees can handle just what you have given them. Migrate to the hive, frame, and foundation conformation that you want as you proceed. Bees will draw foundationless as quick or quicker than plastic foundation in my experience. I try to use foundationless in the brood area and plastic foundation in the supers because plastic extracts better for me. 5.4 mm foundation is fine in the supers even if you prefer the bees to draw the size of their choice in the brood area. Again I say, relax.


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## 117866 (Jan 27, 2017)

I was not going to mention any names in my post. However, the nail hath been hiteth on the head. I also had read that snippet on the page when I ordered the package, and you are correct, it does mention where they are. That was my mistake, apologies. Aside from that, they really are super gentle bees, and seem to have made great solid brood patterns, if they would only draw comb at a rate that I want them to(heavy sarcasm).


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## lharder (Mar 21, 2015)

Dagrin0707 said:


> The part that concerns me is that on their website, if you pick up packages, the pickup address in indeed the state of the company, however, no mention of out of state bees are mentioned for shipped packages. The site also states that all of the bees were raised on small cell, top bar hives with no foundation. If they did fill the bulk of the package with bulk bees from Georgia, I think that they should state that on the site. In any case, I have the bees and they are gentle, and seem to be doing okay for a package. I certainly will not be purchasing any future packages if it can be helped. With the knowledge that there are at least 3 other "TF" keepers in Missouri, perhaps I can work out something with them in the sad case that I murder my girls. I will be reading heavily on queen rearing as my next endeavour, but at the moment, I just want to give them the best chance possible for the winter.


I would look up M. Palmers videos on overwintering nucs and plan to go into winter with as many nucs on 10 standard frames in 2 5 frame boxes as possible. In my first year I started with essentially a medium single at the end of may and went into winter with 8 nucs with the help of bought queens. 

My issue with trying to nurture one queen is, what if she is a dud? My original didn't make it through winter. With multiple queens you increase the odds in your favor. I would find some TF folks around you and get some queens from them. Then feed them through the dearth to build them up for wintering. Going into winter with 4 strong nucs is not unreasonable.


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