# Made 50 migratory bottom boards, here's some photos



## dansk

Hi Ben,

Those are awesome! I like the fact that you can stack the hives closer. It that your own design?


----------



## Charlie B

Nice Ben!


----------



## oblib

I think barry broke your link, i'm getting invalid attachment error.


----------



## westernbeekeeper

Fixed


----------



## westernbeekeeper

Thanks guys! Yes, it's my own design. I made it in the best interest of those who palletize their operation by just putting bottom boards onto pallets (as we do) instead of using a standard 4-way pallet: and also for those few that have "large-ish" operations but are not palletized; they are easily moved with a dolly/handtruck, especially if using a self-levelling one.


----------



## Mbeck

They look nice.

I've been thinking about this recently.
Can I ask a few questions ?

Is your pallet special or modified?
How do the bottom boards lock into it?
What's the lip on the front for?
Why doesn't it have a fixed entrance reducer?
What type of dolly do you use to move hives?

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?276986-Bottom-boards-to-pallets&highlight=Pallet

H.Vander. Uses a similar system and posted photos on the link above.
His boxes look showroom!


----------



## westernbeekeeper

Our pallets are just ones that we pick up for free around town; I think the dimensions are about 3'x4'. We just set 4 hives on each pallet, and it works quite well. We don't really have a system in which the cleats on the bottoms lock into the pallet. We use rachet straps, 2 per pallet, when moving hives, that run through the fork slots on the bottom of the pallet and over 2 hives. The "lip" is an entrance closure that is screwed to the front for safekeeping when not in use. When we need them, we just unscrew them and install them. They can be used as a closure or as a reducer, We use them mostly for reducers. I haven't used a dolly very much for moving hives, but I have done it. Just slide a normal fixed platform dolly between the cleats on the bottom and gently tilt the hive back and cart it up onto your truck or trailer.


----------



## sqkcrk

When I had hives on bottom boards, 6 to a warehouse pallet, mine were flat on the bottom. I did not strap them to the pallet, so, some times they slide around on the pallet and sometimes off the pallet, when moving them w/ a skidsteer loader.

Will your bottom boards be stapled to the hive body?


----------



## westernbeekeeper

We have most but not all of our bottom boards stapled to the first hive body; we're in the (slow) process of getting them all that way.

We rarely move them (we are not migratory), so we don't have a whole lot of problem yet.


----------



## Mbeck

Staples?
Like these?
http://www.mannlakeltd.com/publications/cat2012/page33.pdf

Do you pound them in the side of the box and connected to bottom board or through the bottom?

I don't even understand some of the basic stuff yet!!


----------



## westernbeekeeper

Mbeck said:


> Staples?
> Like these?
> http://www.mannlakeltd.com/publications/cat2012/page33.pdf
> 
> pound them in the side of the box and connected to bottom board?


Yes to both.


----------



## Joel

Nice bottoms - We are going to be building quite a few here in the next month and frankly these look better than what we have been doing. A couple of questions

1) did you have to drill pilot holes for the screws to keep the wood from splitting
2) are you entrances 3/8" with these and how are riseres fastened to the bottom board?
3) Glued and Screwed?
4) what would you estimate the labor time per bottom board?

I hate the hive staples to the super because of course they alway rot out there 1st so we went to screwing the bottoms to super. Takes a good long screw and of course if you need just a hive body can be inconvenient.

Nice work at any rate!


----------



## minz

I just got in from building some boxes. I am going to put a divider in them and start them as nucs (should give me 5 double deckers) figured I would go solid bottom board and was looking for some plans. Figured I would run another rest down the center and leave a second opening across the back.
http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n599/6minz/DSCF4259.jpg
No where in your scale of operations. But some questions:
What is the board across the front for? 
Did you slot your screw holes or drill them fast into the 2x4 cleat?
Biscuit, edge glue or just screw the boards to the cleats?
Do you have antelope I can come hunt in the fall? I hear there are more speed goats than people in that state!


----------



## Rader Sidetrack

minz said:


> What is the board across the front for?


From post #8


westernbeekeeper said:


> The "lip" is an entrance closure that is screwed to the front for safekeeping when not in use. When we need them, we just unscrew them and install them. They can be used as a closure or as a reducer, We use them mostly for reducers.


You are welcome! :lookout:


----------



## HarryVanderpool

One thing that I have done and would never consider otherwise:
Once my parts are all cut out, I lay 2 x 4s out on the floor and prime all of the parts individually. Set them on the 2x4s to dry.
Then when I assemble I have a jig that holds the feet while I paint and staple the board together.
The paint seals up each piece and glues them together tightly for a lifetime.
The boards that I made in this manner over 20 years ago are mostly in perfect shape.
Think for a minute what bottom boards have to endure!! The really get the brunt of the worst condidtions in the hive for rot, glop, moisture, etc.....
Do you want them to immediatly start deteriation or would you like them to outlast you?
And painting them after assembly does not work.
Just try my suggestion and you'll see.
Do it once and do it for a lifetime.

One more comment on westernbeekeepers design that could go either way.
If you look at the picture, he has the foot below entrance all the way to the front edge of the bottom board.
My front foot begins below the front of the cleat. The entire front foot supports weight. Most of his front foot has minimal (some cantilevered at best) load on it because it is not under the box.
On the other hand I can see where this would protect the front of the board better than my design from impact.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/Shallotman/DSC00226.jpg


----------



## westernbeekeeper

Joel said:


> 1) did you have to drill pilot holes for the screws to keep the wood from splitting
> 2) are you entrances 3/8" with these and how are riseres fastened to the bottom board?
> 3) Glued and Screwed?
> 4) what would you estimate the labor time per bottom board?


1) No.
2) Yes, the entrances are 3/8" and the rims are glued and stapled.
3) Yes, everything is glued with TiteBond III and screwed together.
4) If I made one at a time, I would estimate about 10-15 minutes from start to finish. It took me 2 and a half hours to do 50 bottom boards from start to finish. 



minz said:


> What is the board across the front for?
> Did you slot your screw holes or drill them fast into the 2x4 cleat?
> Biscuit, edge glue or just screw the boards to the cleats?
> Do you have antelope I can come hunt in the fall? I hear there are more speed goats than people in that state!


1) That board is an entrance closure that is screwed to the front for safekeeping when not in use. When we need them, we just unscrew them and install them. They can be used as a closure or as a reducer, We use them mostly for reducers.
2) I put glue on the top of the cleat and then laid the 1-bys on and then screwed them tight. No pre-drilling.
3) No glue where the 1-bys butt together, but as afore mentioned, the 2-bys are glued first and then the 1-bys are screwed to them. The 3/8" rims are glued and stapled.
4) You betcha! There are always plenty of antelope and tags for them. And yes, it is quite likely that they outnumber the humans here.


----------



## westernbeekeeper

I get all my lumber at Sutherlands, which has wood for half the price of Home Depot or Lowes, and twice the quality.


----------



## westernbeekeeper

Rader Sidetrack said:


> From post #8
> 
> You are welcome! :lookout:


:lpf: :s :no:


----------



## westernbeekeeper

HarryVanderpool said:


> One thing that I have done and would never consider otherwise:
> Once my parts are all cut out, I lay 2 x 4s out on the floor and prime all of the parts individually. Set them on the 2x4s to dry.
> Then when I assemble I have a jig that holds the feet while I paint and staple the board together.
> The paint seals up each piece and glues them together tightly for a lifetime.
> The boards that I made in this manner over 20 years ago are mostly in perfect shape.
> Think for a minute what bottom boards have to endure!! The really get the brunt of the worst condidtions in the hive for rot, glop, moisture, etc.....
> Do you want them to immediatly start deteriation or would you like them to outlast you?
> And painting them after assembly does not work.
> Just try my suggestion and you'll see.
> Do it once and do it for a lifetime.
> 
> One more comment on westernbeekeepers design that could go either way.
> If you look at the picture, he has the foot below entrance all the way to the front edge of the bottom board.
> My front foot begins below the front of the cleat. The entire front foot supports weight. Most of his front foot has minimal (some cantilevered at best) load on it because it is not under the box.
> On the other hand I can see where this would protect the front of the board better than my design from impact.


Harry, you have alot of good points here. (One of them is your signature line . I love it!) I have always seen migratory bottom boards built nearly the same as I have made them, but I do like your design alot. I'm gonna try making and using some; they definitely have some good upsides. As far as painting, we don't paint our bottom boards. We boil/dip them in wax/linseed oil, and that seems to do an excellent and thorough job of it. I anticipate these lasting 20 years or more; I guess we'll see!


----------



## Honey-4-All

Benjamin,

Nice job on the assembly. Hope they work well for you. Looking at the photos I am wondering about the screws you are using. It has been my experience that the coating on the screws can make all the difference in the longevity of both the screws and the life of your assembly job. From the color I'm seeing in your pics I'm not sure the coating on the ones you have used are of what I would call "long life grade."


----------



## broodhead

Very nicely done, I like your concept and before I bought my AJ100 I would do something almost like you have done. Moving the hives can be a chore, you could build a small dolly that would really help in moving and placing your hives. Broodhead


----------



## PapaB

Those are good looking Benjamin.


----------



## minz

OK, here are pictures of my bottom boards inspired from this post. I wanted to do divided bottoms to do divided deeps (already built a bunch).
I did not want to plane down the lumber. I got burned out doing that for a full day and could not bring myself to fire that thing up. 
Everything with the grain is glued and nailed, everything cross grain was primed and painted and screwed (or nailed) with the paint wet (HarryV). Anything with multiple fasteners had one fixed and the rest slotted. All fasteners were attempted to be under the deep. All ends were primed and painted. 
Bottoms look like the others
http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n599/6minz/bottomofbottom_zpsabe089a9.jpg
Tops are divided with and entrance on both sides facing the opposite direction:
http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n599/6minz/bottomseast_zps9ed2512f.jpg
Close up, just a thin piece of wood with a roofing nail driven through it painted first.
http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n599/6minz/bottomcloseup_zps52442c35.jpg
Yes, that is sun in Portland in March, not trick photography.


----------



## Mbeck

Did you use Plywood?
MDO?


----------



## minz

100% Solid rough cut hemlock (about 1 1/16" thick). Actually, I had 3 biscuits on each of the edge jointed pieces but I don't count that. I only have about 800 BF left to build stuff with.


----------



## Charlie B

I'll take 20, please bill odfrank.


----------



## jmgi

westernbeekeeper, nice design but why even bother screwing the 2x4's to the 1x's, titebond III is all you really need, with 3 1/2 inches of surface area for the glue it is more than enough in my opinion, they're just bottom boards. If you insist on screws why not shoot the screw in from below instead of from on top, that way you don't see the screw head on the landing board. John


----------



## minz

I think the wood grain is in two different directions, it would not be able to hold (IMHO). With the temp extremes he is looking at the best case would be that the wood would split along the grain and the board would tear itself apart (like running conduit or pipe across a bridge) even with the glue holding the surface.


----------



## EastSideBuzz

I just made 120 of the same type. I add clips and Cleats to mine and paint them all sorts of colors but, same design 1/2 bee ways on 3/4 ply. I get the tongue and groove and cut off the tongue and groove part it is cheaper.


----------

