# Remove empty bottom box for winter?



## lostboy (Feb 20, 2016)

I have two warres' , one had three boxes and one had four, neither one had built out the lower boxes to any extent so about two weeks ago I removed the lower boxes on both of them. I couldn't see leaving all that open space, it's been in the 20's a couple nights this week and low 40's during the day, with almost three inches of snow yesterday.


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## Sweetbee (Jul 20, 2015)

OK. I will definitely remove them. The weather here is still pretty warm, even expected to be in the high 70's this week. My intuition said to remove them, but I'm such a novice with the Warre style hive, thought I would ask other more experienced folks. Snow already? Do you wrap your hives with tar paper or add any other winter protection? I screw insulation to my top bar hives but wonder about the Warres. 

Thanks, lostboy for responding. Really appreciate it as it is my very first post on this forum. 
SweetB


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## kygreer (May 16, 2015)

I'm new here too and this is my first season with Warre's so I'd love to hear a response from some of the experienced folks, but here's what I'm currently doing:

I have 2 warre's from spring swarms that have filled out the top two boxes completely, but haven't built into the bottom (third box) yet. I removed the bottom empty box on one of them and rotated the hive so that the comb was perpendicular to the entrance (per Warre's suggestion). I feel like the comb down there might get more drafty because its near the door (though the entrance is small), so I'm going to leave the other hive with an empty box on the bottom (but I will also rotate it so the comb is perpendicular). As heat rises, I don't feel like the empty space below will really affect the warmth of the cluster, but I really don't know. In the colorado front range we are consistently in the single digits to 20s through the winter. Lost our two top bar hives last winter so hoping that warres are better. I'm going to cut some scrap rigid foam and bungee it around my hives this year.
I guess I feel like the empty box on the bottom isn't really extra energy to heat, and in the spring they will like the empty space to build into and it'll give me a little leeway in my timing to add a fourth box. Warre does say that if the top two boxes are completely full, it's suggested but not necessary to remove the empty bottom one.
If the combs in your mostly bottom boxes have honey, I'd say keep em because the bees will use the honey. Also I just read a post about ways to keep a single box of warres alive through the winter (because one box is a little small). I think it was on this forum somewhere. In the future it might be best to combine the two single-box hives into one two-box hive a little earlier in the season... Good luck!


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

I just built a Warre but have not got bees in it yet. I did have a lang hive that was one medium and the top medium being about 30% built out and heavy with honey. I ask on the forum and also a guy that keeps bees around me about wether I should remove it or put it on bottom. The guy on this forum said put it on bottom and on the warmer days the bees would move it up. The bee guy around here said to take it off and freeze the partial combs of honey for spring. He said at this time of the year that putting it on bottom would screw the bees up. 

Today I reversed the boxes and put the partial built medium on bottom. I can't tell which is right or if niether is wrong and both ways would have worked. In the end you have to make a decision and take a chance. I decided letting the bees watch it was easiest for me and so that is what I did. Now I have my fingers crossed.

I can not tell you what is correct but only what I have did faced with a simular situation. If they had not been building comb I would have got rid of the box. Now that they have built in it, I figure I won't have to move comb for ladders or starters and that the bees will already consider the box as part of the hive come spring.
Good luck
gww

Ps I am first year so don't relie on my post as any kind of advice.


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## NY14804 (Feb 8, 2016)

Kygreer & gww - For what my opinion is worth (and it ain't much) I applaud your attempts and I would probably try the same solutions as you two did, to see what can or might work. 

Beekeepers have such varying answers & opinions regarding a lot of questions, leaving us new beekeepers scratching our heads as to what is the absolutely correct answer.

That's what makes info & answers from this forum so good, especially when added to advice from local beekeepers or clubs. You can put questions out there in front of thousands of experienced beekeepers...and some will generously give their responses. You can weigh all suggestions to help you decide what to do, or what's right for you.

It's all a learning experience... and learning from (what could ultimately end up being) a bad decision is still learning. 
I agree with gww..."In the end you have to make a decision and take a chance".


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## Sweetbee (Jul 20, 2015)

Hmmm. I replied earlier this morning but it did not go through. New at this, so maybe I did not hit the right button? 

So I have decided to remove one of the mostly empty bottom boxes without much comb and leave the other one that has 3 full combs.Do not see any honey through the window. Both do have 2 full boxes of comb, not just one. Trial and error. That is the way I have learned most about bees over the years. I will rotate the combs perpendicular to the entrance to conserve heat as kygreer suggested. Probably time for me to reread the Abbe Warre book,too. 

Plan to build a shallow feeding box for under the quilt so I can feed fondant this winter. It is 70 degrees here today and last winter 
was mild but can not count on that again. I learned that lesson with bees in my TBH's starving in early late February or early March. 

Thanks to all for the great feedback. I agree with NY14804 that in the end after reading all the responses, you do make your own decision
and take a chance. 

SweetB


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## lostboy (Feb 20, 2016)

My first year also, so stumbling along, I'm probably going to wrap with tar paper , maybe put up a wind barrier with some hay bales, but I added another thread a little while ago about the poor condition of my hives today. So making it through the winter might be in question. A coworker that I discovered has bees, recently told me that I have about a 20percent chance of my bees making it, I know, depressing right. He lost all 14 hives last year.


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