# Advantech users - what kind of joinery do you use?



## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

I have used advantech for only the front and back of the boxes and just made rabbit joints. Then used staples from the front and back and then stapled the sides to the front and back into the rebate. A little heavier but they work fine.
Johno


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

I used rabbet joints cut with a plywood blade on my table saw. Never tried using a dado blade on any osb product.


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## Jim_in_PA (May 17, 2016)

You can use whichever joinery method you prefer with Advantek. That said, it's not something I'd want to process with my "really good" dado stack because the resins, etc., in composite sheet goods like this are extremely abrasive. Use a more throw-away stack for this stuff. You'll also want to insure that whatever you use for glue is a good fit since an outdoor rated product may not absorb a PVA type glue in the same way that solid stock or plywood will.


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## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

I have a really poor dado set which I use to cut most of the rebate and then finish it off on a router table which ends up with a really smooth finish. I have also used Titebond 2 with good results.
Johno


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## Kamon A. Reynolds (Apr 15, 2012)

Boy those will be some heavy boxes 
Rough on the blades too. Just paint them good the sun wears them out


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

I would use rabbets, TB II or TB III, and staples


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## mike17l (Jun 22, 2012)

I use advantek to make migratory tops, I only use butt joints and screws.


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## Bkwoodsbees (Feb 8, 2014)

I made 50 or so 5 frame nuc boxes with a deep super a few years ago. I also made 25 deep brood boxes last year. All were made the same but joints glued with Tb 2 and 3/8 × 2in staples. 1 coat of oil base primer and 2 coats of latex paint. All are rock solid. They are heavy but I like them. I have switched to pallets so extra weight not a problem so far. I feel the hives grow faster in the advantech boxes. Don't know why maybe the chip glue and wax make up is a better insulator than pine board. I like them wish I had more time to build more. Robert
A


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

Use the joint of your choice. Advantec will work with all of them. I use box joints, but other joints work well also.










cchoganjr


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## Qvox (May 21, 2015)

JConnolly said:


> I'm going into my second year with Advantech. I've been using standard hive body 3/4" finger joints. Today I was cutting out the fingers for a dozen new deep boxes when I started wondering if with Advantech it was even necessary to go to that much effort and time.


Finger joints aren't really even a good joint for solid boards. I'd probably just use rabbet joints. It's a lot less effort, and in the long run will probably be just as good a joint, if not better, than finger joints. 

Advantech is .70 inches thick. Do you have to change your cut plan since it's not 3/4", or does that small difference not matter?


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

I take the 1/32 difference into account when using plywood. It adds up quickly.


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## JConnolly (Feb 21, 2015)

Qvox said:


> Advantech is .70 inches thick. Do you have to change your cut plan since it's not 3/4", or does that small difference not matter?


The only dimension that needs to change is the depth of the finger joint. All of the other dimensions stay the same and the finger joints are still 3/4" wide. The finger joints are 23/32 deep to match the 23/32 thickness Advantech. The sole adjustment is just a small tweak on my blade height handle.

This keeps the outside dimensions of the boxes the same as the my other wooden ware so they stack the same. The inside dimensions end up 1/16" larger, not a problem at all. the boxes are straight and square and stay straight and tiny cracks don't open up between boxes as normal wood expands and contracts. 

I use wood (pine) external handles on Advantech boxes and I like the external handles so much better that I've been adding them to my boxes with the cut recessed handles as I service or harvest the boxes. External handles provide a better grip and because they run the full width of the box they are more ergonomic and allow me to position my hands closer to my body when lifting, which makes a huge difference when hoisting a loaded honey box.


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## Qvox (May 21, 2015)

I need advice on what 10" blades you guys are using. My plywood/OBS blade isn't hacking it. My Dado stack is great for the rabbet joints, but the plywood blades are dulling and slow. 

I'm not a "fine" woodworker, so I'm looking for suggestions for blades that can be had from the big box stores, or online.
*
edit to add:* Forget the plywood and OBS blades, and just use a good multipurpose blade. 

I guess I was trying too hard for smooth edges.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

I use a carbide plywood blade, 80 tooth I think. Cuts like a hot knife through butter. Very smooth edges. Bought at a big box store several years ago. Blade was not cheap.


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## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

I use a generic tungsten tipped crosscut 7" blade from Ace Hardware to do all of my box cuts, they are about $5 a blade and are very thin so there is not much wastage on the cuts. Obviously you do not get the depth of a 10" blade but bear in mind you are cutting mostly 3/4" materiel, actually they might be 71/4" 
Johno


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## JConnolly (Feb 21, 2015)

I'm using a cheap 10" melamine blade on Advantech, it cuts Advantech like butter with a very clean cut. 

If you want smooth edges without tear out then use zero clearance inserts on your saw. I'm not seeing tear out from the random orientation of Advantech with my ZCI (I make my own ZCI from Baltic birch plywood, see YouTube for how to make them).

Another trick you can try to minimize tear out is to apply masking tape over the cut line on the bottom side of the board for table saw, or top side of the board for circular saw. Its not fool proof, but that little bit of extra grain support does cut down on tear out.


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## Qvox (May 21, 2015)

I'm 20 nucs into using this product.

I'm concerned about some of the exposed crosscuts. There are cavities exposed which look they're going to be hard to fill with paint. Maybe I shouldn't have used it for the bottom board. My cost per nuc is around $10 in material (haven't sat down and calculated it yet) which is a very good price ....that is, if the nucs last. 

It was also a pain to modify my plans for the 23/32" width of these boards. Of course, I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, especially when it comes to woodworking, so that's probably nothing for some of you guys. _But I need plans._ D Coats nuc plans would probably be well suited for this stuff. But trying to build a traditional plan, I have my concerns. Especially with with 3/4" bottom cleats. I think cutting those is a mistake. I think for the next batch I'm going to use solid lumber for the side rails and cleats, for my bottom board, and maybe for the sides of my top cover. I think the boxes will be fine.

Question: How do you guys treat your crosscuts so they don't rot out?


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## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

Qvox, I use the advantech for the ends and lids only the bottoms and sides I use 1/2" ply. I route a 3/4" deep rebate on the ends for frame rests then paint the outsides with a coat of kilz latex followed by whatever exterior latex I can find. My crosscuts are reasonably smooth and after the coats of paint I do not have a problem and some of my stuff is over 4 years old now,
Johno


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

I only use the Advantech for the boxes. There is only a 3/8" crosscut exposed and that I put several coats of paint on. Bottoms, inner covers, and tops are made out of traditional materials.


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## Qvox (May 21, 2015)

@Johno Thanks for the information. I'm glad to hear that your Advantech woodware has lasted the test of time.


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

My ply boxes are starting to show some delamination after 10 years of use. The 1x material hives, some have a bit of warping but still in good shape in the same amount of time. I would be more interested in how advantec fares after 10 years outside.


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## Qvox (May 21, 2015)

$11.20 per 5 frame hive.

That's approximately what it cost me in Advantech to produce 20 5 frame deep hive bodies, 20 telescoping tops, and 20 bottom boards. I say approximately because I have scraps that can be used to produce components on the next run. So maybe a little less. 

The advantage of this material is it's relatively inexpensive. It holds up to weather, and water. 

The disadvantage of this material is I believe the crosscuts are vulnerable to water. There are small cavities in advantech that are exposed on the crosscuts. After priming, and painting the cuts these cavities were filled. But painting them for me was more like pushing paint into them with the tip of the brush, which was a pain, and took time. I couldn't just spray them. I had to work the paint in with a brush. (I absolutely hate painting hives) I wonder if using some sort of wood filler on the outer crosscuts would help improve the longevity of these hives (?). That would certainly add to the labor, but might be worth it. 

For the hobbiest running only a few hives, I probably wouldn't mess with it. Obviously large commercial operations probably have access to less expensive lumber sources. But for my region, for sideliners, small commercial operations, or hobbyist expanding into a more serious sideline business, this stuff probably fills the bill.


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## Jim_in_PA (May 17, 2016)

I joined the Advantech bandwagon today after Alison asked me to make a few more NUC boxes and migratory covers. It's been a busy year for NUCs and we've been running "too close" in number of available boxes. So I picked up a sheet this morning after dropping my older daughter off at work. It was actually pretty flat which was important to me...I planned on doing the cutting on my CNC machine. After creating the programming, I headed out to the shop, put the material on the machine and let it cut out the parts for three boxes and two migratory covers. (half-sheet...my machine is a 4x4) The cut time was 16 minutes start to finish and the end result was great. Absolutely true joinery (rabbit method) and easy to glue up and screw together. I'd use this material again for the same purpose, no question.

Here are a few photos...

The rendering of the programming prior to cutting:










Cutting in progress:










Cutting complete:










The "Customer", Alison, checking out the parts...









Built and ready for paint:


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

I'm calling personal foul. Using a CNC machine to cut your parts is CHEATING! Lets see a show of hands, how many here, besides Jim, use a CNC machine to cut their parts. Hmm. I don't see any hands! Maybe because I'm blinded by jealousy? Aw, what the hell, good job. I made up six deeps and two mediums from a sheet this weekend. Only I had to do it "old school" with a tablesaw.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

I’m very jealous of both the boxes and machinery! Thanks for the pics!!


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## mcr (May 5, 2018)

I'm not that computer savy to run a cnc machine. However I can make a jig to use my skil saw to cut out nuc boxes or what ever I want. Learned to do this in the Navy back in the early 70's when they still taught how to use & maintain hand tools and small power tools along with bigger shop equiptment. I still like it though.


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## Jim_in_PA (May 17, 2016)

It was nice to do "because I can", but clearly, using a CNC for this isn't going to be common and is probably overkill. The machine is a new addition to my shop and I'm deep in the learning curve, so I took the opportunity.  Normally, I'll be cutting signs and other things, not bee-boxes. LOL

I will say this, however...I wasn't kidding when I said the joinery was spot on. It's because of the math! The material thickness accommodation for the rabbits could be exactly cut at exactly .7188" (23/32") and repeatably.

JW, we don't use deeps, but I may cut some mediums out of the other half of the sheet to supplement the box of knock-down mediums we just received from Mann Lake. I have to imagine deeps made with this stuff are REALLY heavy!


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## JConnolly (Feb 21, 2015)

Speaking of knock downs Jim, I used barrel nuts to make some nucs with Advantech that I could disassemble to store flat when I didn't need them. I pressed four barrel nuts into four holes drilled in the end board and then covered them with handles so the box has a top and bottom handle. This is the first summer for trying a KD, I'll have to see how it goes. I don't have any plans to make KDs for my regular boxes or for my mating nucs, just the 5 frame nucs since they sit empty for a lot of time. Wishing now that I had made my swarm traps as KD as they take up a lot of space.

I attached the exploded cad assembly plan, I don't have a photograph, I'll have to remember to take one and upload it.


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## Jim_in_PA (May 17, 2016)

That's a really interesting idea, JConnolly. You're correct that NUCs take up space and for small operators like my better half, storage space can be constrained. I shoe-horned the new ones in our shelving to the expense of other non-beekeeping things that had to be moved elsewhere. If and when I make some more from the Advantech, I'll look into doing that. It would be really easy to add the precisely sized holes for the barrel bolt connectors to my cutting file for the CNC, so the only manual operation would be drilling through the end of the side-pieces to get the bolts to the connectors. I guess this would be the Ikea version of NUCs. LOL


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