# What day do you transfer cells into incubator?



## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

Ian I take my queen cells out on day 10 as normal, candle the cells put out all I can into hives and mating nucs, and any left over go into my incubator into separate cages. T.he only advantage of the incubator is that it allows me to keep those extra cells for a few days longer until I can find a home for them. I suppose if you want to double you queen cells by putting new grafts in every 6 days or so that would be a different story.
Johno


----------



## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

Ian have you looked at this link for documenting your queen rearing.
http://www.thebeeyard.org/queen-rearing-calendar/ I use their document to track from grafting.
Johno


----------



## JSL (Sep 22, 2007)

There is some variation commercially. Cells are pretty delicate shortly after being sealed, 5.5-6 days post graft. I remove and cage cells immediately after being sealed just handle carefully. The larva/pre-pupa feeds briefly after the cell is sealed before the cocoon is spun, so avoid banging the cells around and dislodging larva/pre-pupa. One word of advice, get a decent incubator with a second, high cut out thermostat. Too many cells have been baked when the thermostat fails. Heat kills faster than chilling...


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Thx guys. I was looking at cheap $200 wine coolers to convert into an incubator and came across this;

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B004...TF8&qid=1486077917&sr=8-13&keywords=incubator



Heat and cool, enough space for what I'm interested in, cheap. 
Any thoughts ? 
Thx


----------



## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

Looks good Ian, How do you make up those queen cages? Check out that site I mentioned, put in a grafting date and you can get the story from egg to laying queen day by day.
Johno


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Not my pic, I got it off of google 
I checked out the site you mentioned
That calander is good 
I used a Queen calendar last year, to help organize my work using a weekly graft schedule. And then put it into a daily graft schedule for about 2 weeks during the split. 
Very useful


----------



## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

ian, my schedule is such that i graft early in the day on friday. i go back late on tuesday and if find all the cells have been capped i bring them in. sometimes there are a couple not completely capped in which case i go back on wednesday.

day 10 ends up falling on a monday, allowing for placement in nucs on day 9 sunday. i've had a few that have emerged on sunday evening or monday morning. i have the incubator set at 93-94 degrees f. i may try turning the incubator down a degree this year.

the larva i pick are the smallest ones i can find, some just hatched, but some end up a little larger than that if i run out of tiny ones.


----------



## Georgiabeeman (Dec 10, 2015)

Queens hatch on a 16 day cycle. So the day you graft a larva is considered day 3. Wait until day 14 to transfer. So 11 days after your graft transfer. This will ensure you do not damage the wings as she is growing and will also ensure that one does not hatch to early and kill the others. 

Hope this helps.... 
Georgiabeeman


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

It depends on my goal. Usually I don't use an incubator because I have better luck with them emerging in the mating nucs and I have better luck with the bees caring for them. When I do use an incubator it's either to free up the cell starter for another batch, or because I'm going to be out of town when the cells need to go in the mating nucs. The first case, I put them in as soon as they are capped. The second case, I put them in before I leave town...


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

More or less I want to use the incubator to stage the cells to help manage weather. Digging cells out of finishers during rain sucks.


----------



## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Cells grafted on the 1st should always be out of the finisher by the end of the day on the 11th as its not unusual to have an early hatcher that night. Those cells, I like to incubate at a tad under 90 degrees, younger cells I keep at 93 to 94 degrees. I prefer transferring cells on the 11th day (though they usually begin hatching later in the day) primarily because they are a bit tougher. With a little more careful handling, I see no downside to installing 10 or even 9 day cells.


----------



## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

A perfect temp. that I have adjusted in my small fridge incubator.
The temp. is around 92.1 to 94.4 because I have 2 temp. reading devices. Somewhere in
the middle of the fridge is the correct 93F that I'm looking for. On Lauri's post she mentioned about
putting her cells at 92F. OT's post mentioned at 95F to hatch faster. Anyhow you have to experiment a
bit to find out. The inside humidity is around 45-50 range.


----------



## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Ian said:


> Not my pic, I got it off of google


Funny how the world turns .... :lpf:

That incubator 'pic' in post #5 is actually a _Lauri_ photo, posted to Beesource back in 2013, in post #4 of this thread:
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?283663-Using-incubators-for-queen-emergence


----------



## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

AstroBee said:


> I run mine at 92 with a 1 degree dead band, which means that it is always between 91 and 92. Had great success with those settings.


Exactly.

You have to make sure you trust your temp readings. The unit you posted above still works great for me, but I have a separate thermometer inside for more accurate readings. 91 degrees puts my gestation perfectly timed. I can reduce the temp the last day slightly to delay emergence if weather is bad. I generally reduce the temp anyway, I think it hardens off the queens a bit. The only time I don't reduce temps near the end is if I also have another batch of newly placed cells in the incubator that need the full 91 degree temps.

The bottom is always cooler by about 1- 1 1/2 degrees so that allows me to move older cells down or emerged virgins to hold where it is a little cooler.

I've had this incubator since 2013,every season it runs constantly from mid April through mid August without being turned off. Although the Amazon reviews are poor, it has never failed me.



















I use that same thermometer to monitor my graft frame under a damp towel. That magnifier uses a halogen light so I have to be careful with the heat, but it also comes in handy.

This give me a little time to set grafts if I am taking more than one batch from the same frame and grab lunch and a cup of coffee if I want to since I 'll have my veil up.










I did buy the newer model last year just to have as a back up and found it is a little smaller inside than this one. But they added another circ fan so the interior is a little more stable.

I place my cells in the incubator at day 10, unless circumstances force me to place earlier, like avoiding messy cells during the main flow.

Handling just capped cells are a delicate matter. I do this only when necessary and my emergence rate is slightly lower. 










Tough cells are a lot easier to handle.










I place as many of the best cells as I can before they emerge. It's easy to head out the door several cells in my insulated lunch box with a disposable hand warmer. Collected mated queens are replace immediately with a cell. I carry that lunch box around with me all day, periodically refilling as necessary.






























Anything that is questionable I let emerge in the incubator.


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Lauri would you recommend this product?


----------



## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

I bought this one on Joe's recommendation. Probably more than most would need, but for me it was money well spent. The temp is digitally controllable down to 1/10th of a degree and humidity is easily maintained with a large sponge. It's large and deep enough to hold a total of about 18 deep frames 2 high on slidable trays. It is notable that it is designed to be placed in a room at a typical room temp and probably shouldn't be left in an unheated room though I've never experimented with that. 
http://www.gqfmfg.com/1500-series/1550-digital-hatcher/


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Ya something like that where I could slip in frames and go.


----------



## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

For me it was a pretty small price to pay for piece of mind when weighed not just against the dollar value of the cells but avoiding any chance of a disruption to your schedule. Nothing against Lauri's setup, its probably perfect for most but if you want the convenience of putting in multiple frame of cells quickly and simply (for us thats 60 to 80 cells per frame) its pretty hard to beat a larger incubator like this.


----------



## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

My model is great for someone starting out or on a small scale. That Exoterra unit also comes complete with a 12V DC car adapter that plugs into most vehicle outlets so if you transport from yard to another, it will keep contents both warm or cool as it has a cooling function as well for hot weather.

That GQF model is probably the next one I will be getting, but will pay extra for the clear door option.

I had started to make one out of a Cabelas dehydrator housing, just got too busy and didn't finish it. I took the guts out of a little giant for the heatign element and circ fan. It worked OK, but would prefer to order a standard element and thermostatic control. In a unit this big, keeping the humidity at the right level was challenging. But begin able to slip in a full deep frame was very convenient at times.

The dehydrator is digitally controlled, but is too forceful and a little too variable to use for cells. But I do turn it on to bring up to temp quickly. 

The power, light and digital reading works without the heat and the fan, which is switched separately.


----------



## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

Michael Bush said:


> It depends on my goal. Usually I don't use an incubator because I have better luck with them emerging in the mating nucs and I have better luck with the bees caring for them. When I do use an incubator it's either to free up the cell starter for another batch, or because I'm going to be out of town when the cells need to go in the mating nucs. The first case, I put them in as soon as they are capped. The second case, I put them in before I leave town...


This is exactly how I utilize my incubator - mostly to maximize throughput of the finisher. I strongly prefer to NOT let the cells emerge in the incubator. Virgin queens are very hungry when they emerge and I believe that they greatly benefit from having nurse bees present. Sure, you can provide food so they can feed themselves, but I believe it diminishes the quality of the queen. Besides, it is far more difficult to deal with virgins than cells. 

I use a old deep chest freezer as my incubator. The heating is accomplished by a cluster of 3 60 watt incandescent light bulbs and the controller is a Ranco ETC-111000. I use a small box fan that is cycled with the heater to evenly distribute the heat. I get very steady temps with this system and do not see overshoots that some try to avoid by using PID controllers. The freezer can easily accommodate a deep box where I place the grafting frame. This way there is minimal handling of the cells - I gently pull frame out of the finisher and brush off bees and place in incubator. I make very sure that the temperature probe is placed right next to the cells. I've used this system to incubate 100s of cells without a single failure. 

Costs: controller about $50, light bulb fixture (free since I had it laying around), chest freezer (free as my neighbor was throwing it away), but these are often discarded and can be picked up for free pretty much anywhere. The fan, again free since I had it, but these can be purchased on ebay for about $10.


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

One thing I learnt is queen rearing runs a strict schedule. If cells are to be collected on day 10 after graft, they need to be collected on day 10 regardless the weather. 
Luckily I have an assistant that I send out into the rain to collect cells. And she is insisting on an incubator to allow collection time over a few days to help manage the weather. Lol
I've pushed the boundaries and have been punished with early hatches 

I think I might be leaning towards a larger unit. Quickly dropping in frames will be important around here. We are hopping through May


----------



## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Here is a visual to give you an idea how we use it. A nice improvement for someone so inclined is to mount the two trays on some sort of drawer glides. Currently they just friction slide aluminum on aluminum.


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

There I go
That's exactly what I was imagining 
That is what I'll set up
Through the split we will be pulling cells into the incubator everyday for a couple weeks so I want to set up for space


----------



## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Ian said:


> And she is insisting on an incubator to allow collection time over a few days to help manage the weather.


Once you use it, you'll wonder how you got along without it. You extend your flexibility for several days. And you have the ability to rear more cells than you need so unexpected failures won't hurt your schedule. 

Get her a big umbrella and a cheap weighted stand she can move where ever she needs it. Works great in hot sun too.


----------



## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

Do you have any spare calf sheds that you can place the cell finisher in?


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

mgolden said:


> Do you have any spare calf sheds that you can place the cell finisher in?


Lol ya but I also like working in those nice sunny beautiful days


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Lauri said:


> Once you use it, you'll wonder how you got along without it. You extend your flexibility for several days. And you have the ability to rear more cells than you need so unexpected failures won't hurt your schedule.
> 
> Get her a big umbrella and a cheap stand she can move where ever she needs it. Works great in hot sun too.
> 
> View attachment 30564


I once tried that idea of an overhead canopy while shaking packages. Until it hit the tree top canopies lol ha ha , quite the expression on my workers faces ha ha


----------



## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)




----------



## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Ha, ha. Never getting into a photo posting duel with Lauri. You lose every time.


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Jim you need to adopt a more photo friendly presence like Lauri :thumbsup:


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Thank for all the feedback guys. Very much appreciated. I ended up buying the Digital Professional Cabinet Incubator 1500 for $500. Thanks to some program funding associated with encouraging producer sustainability, I'll have 2/3 of the cost covered. 
I'm as excited as a kid on Christmas morning


----------



## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

You got that for $500? You have a friend that works there or did you make them an offer they couldn't refuse?


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

It's new apparently, I put my trust in Amazon. 
I've been looking at it everyday for a week now, it was $775 last week....
Cost shared too


----------



## JSL (Sep 22, 2007)

Ian,

Is the incubator in the pic the actual one you purchased? It is the "setting" machine. The unit is fine but if you notice those three horizontal bars that hold the trays are stationary, unlike the hatcher Jim has. You will just have to do a little retrofitting to get frames in. They are nice units and easy to get parts for.


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Amizon failed me with a canceled order but I placed an order through EBAY. I accidentally bought the 1550, I was going to buy the cheaper 1500 but As Joe suggested the trays will work out better. 
This is what is being sent;



I'll have to modify the unit. I'll take a couple of the slide trays out and build frame supports. I'll see what exactly needs done when it arrives.


----------



## JSL (Sep 22, 2007)

I think you will like it. GQF has been around a long time. They build simple machines that work. Modifying the hatcher unit to your needs will be easier.


----------



## JBJ (Jan 27, 2005)

We transfer ours on day 6... start placing on day 10. Home built incubator insulated cabinet with lab grade temperature control and a heated water bath to maintain humidity and help with temperature maintenance so the unit returns quickly to temp after the door has been opened. We keep ours at 94F. I have seen several studies that show cooler temps can adversely affect memory and learning. Most will hatch on the beginning of day 13.


----------



## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

That's the problem with a cheap incubator, I can't trust the digital temp reading to be totally accurate. Every thermometer/ hygrometer I have reads slightly different.

91 degree setting F on the unit itself puts me at the correct gestation and emergence. Who knows exactly what the temp is. But that's how I run it. After 4 years I have no complaints.


----------



## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

I'm not sure about the avg. temp. then. Some say 94 and Lauri's 91?
So the average might be around 93F for me. I will test it out first before running more
cells in it. And what is the average humidity inside? Good idea for the hot water bath.


----------



## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Ian said:


> Thx guys. I was looking at cheap $200 wine coolers to convert into an incubator and came across this;
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B004...TF8&qid=1486077917&sr=8-13&keywords=incubator
> 
> ...


http://www.reptipro.com/reptipro-6000-incubator.html
This is what I use. I like it very much. But I'm not big time like you.


----------



## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

I try to transfer them during gorging right after capping, while there is still plenty of RJ in the cell.

If I'm just re-queening large, strong colonies (catching 2-year-old queens and temp caging them to a queen bank), they can go out on Day 2, still floating in RJ. That makes for a whole lot more bees taking care of those queen cells. It only slows down the colonies about 2 weeks. If I cage the queen cells in a small QE cage, it hardly slows them at all, but it makes for some serious mama queen hunting and catching those 11 days late, unless you want to let them fight.


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

jwcarlson said:


> http://www.reptipro.com/reptipro-6000-incubator.html
> This is what I use. I like it very much. But I'm not big time like you.


Big time!?! HA 
No just in too deep lol


----------



## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

*****


----------

