# Organic Based Bee Food



## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Frankly, I do not know if you are a pollen/sub. collector or not.
The pic you posted look like very good for nacho corn chips dipping.
I don't think the bees like natural nacho corn chips dip either. 
Maybee your pollen is a bit different with the 'green' color added. All I 
see is either brown or orange pollen sub. Though my Borage has the white pollen too. Going to need lots of Borage acres for the white dip pollen concoction. So chip dips aside, I like the idea of an organic based pollen supplement. All it matters to us beekeepers are the healthy bees and affordability of your sub. Can you offer it at an affordable price and will the bees eat it to produce lots of healthy broods too? Seems like a complex science behind it to make a good sub. bee it natural or man made mix.


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## JSL (Sep 22, 2007)

Thanks beepro. Absolutely, we test new formulations, materials each year! 

The color is accidental. It is simply from the ingredients used to meet the nutritional profile. The formulation is one of the original formulations we tested about 8 years ago when we milled all of our test ingredients. It works well, but it has such a different appearance. Today, materials are getting easier to purchase and some beekeepers are specifically asking for an "organic" option, but I am not sure if it is worthwhile...


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## drlonzo (Apr 15, 2014)

I would think that with the upswing in the "Organic" market that there would be a real need for a certified "Organic" pollen sub. With all the rules and regulations concerning the organic market this would be one less thing for an organic beekeeper to worry with. Not to mention that with the pollen sub they could actually help brood up their hives faster and take advantage of the nectar flows making more honey in the long run. 

Have you a base large enough yet for actual production of an "Organic" option, or still testing the waters? If bees were to take it readily and use it, as long as it was priced comparibly I'd use it.


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## JSL (Sep 22, 2007)

drlonzo,

Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but I am not sure a beekeeper can gain organic certification in most areas of the US. This sub would not meet organic certification. 90%+ of the ingredients are certified organic, but some I simply can't get as certified organic, primarily the vitamin and mineral components.

It is still just a working concept. Production would require a larger interest and while a small number of beekeepers ask about such an option I am not sure it is viable, so I appreciate all the feedback!


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

What's in it and why?

I can think of a few green ingredients that add the types of proteins and nutrients that maybe missing in traditional sub formulas.


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## drlonzo (Apr 15, 2014)

JSL,

I think you're right about the organic certification at this point. I was just thinking that if a product like this were available that those that are either trying or "claiming" organic cert could use it without worry. 

The question that I have for you at the moment however is, Is there enough of a cost differenece between the "Organic version" and the "standard version" that switching over completely to organic is out of the question? Possibly create your own "niche market" with the only organic sub? :scratch:


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## JSL (Sep 22, 2007)

Mbeck,

I am not trying to be secretive, but I cannot share the ingredients. It is a sound formulation, but based on organic ingredients for those that prefer such a diet.

drlonzo,

In talking with the companies that manufacture organic feeds, they estimate a 25-30% increase in cost when using organic materials. In my view, this is a real turnoff for a commercial operation and I fully appreciate that, but there are backyard beekeepers that have a different view...


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## drlonzo (Apr 15, 2014)

JSL said:


> Mbeck,
> drlonzo,
> 
> In talking with the companies that manufacture organic feeds, they estimate a 25-30% increase in cost when using organic materials. In my view, this is a real turnoff for a commercial operation and I fully appreciate that, but there are backyard beekeepers that have a different view...


JSL,
I can see that "niche market" still. Although there would be a true turn off for the commercial folks that just need lots of bees at a specific time, those out here that are smaller operations that are selling their own honey to make a living could really use a product like this. If for no other reason than "pure marketing", it I believe could really help.

I myself as stated above would be interested in it. I sell my own honey, being able to tell buyers that my bees are only given a purely organic diet when being fed in the off season could make people see that the level of care for the bees is above par, which would give at least the impression that the standards for the honey would be the same. 

I think your market is there for the product, it's just that you will need to get the "word" out that it's available.  Sign me up and I'll help spread the word when ready..


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

I am in process of breeding a high protein corn (maize) for the specific purpose of feeding chickens. I have lines from ARS-GRIN that increase methionine and lysine content significantly. I will be making the second crosses this year. Pollen from the high protein lines has higher protein content as well. I know this is not directly relevant to your question, but my point is that there may be opportunity to source the protein at better prices from organic sources given the plant genetics that are available now or will be available in the near future. There is also some potential to harvest corn pollen in bulk to use in a mix.

Your estimate of 30% price increase using organic inputs is probably a tad low depending on the material being purchased.


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## JSL (Sep 22, 2007)

drlonzo and Fusion power,

Thanks for the insight it is greatly appreciated!

I am headed out the door to the Indiana Beekeepers meeting, maybe I will see some of you there!


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