# Epi-Pen



## RedDave

Got a 2-dose unit of Epi-Pen last year that out-dated in 8 months. I thought it should last at least a year. Does anyone know if it's still any good after more than a year? 2 years?
Dave


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## Dave Burrup

The pens are expensive, but if you really need one I would not gamble on an expired one. They do not put those dates on them to make money.
Dave


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## Marysia2

I bought a 2-pak in May this year and the expiration is August, 2015. It just depends on what the pharmacy has in their inventory. While mine was fine, the "next" time, I will definitely think to look at the expiration date before accepting it - or ask the pharmacy in advance what the expiration date is and that I want one at least a year out. 

I don't know if I agree with Dave that they *don't* put expiration dates on them to make money (cynic that I am) but I probably wouldn't use one that is a year out of date. Maybe a couple or 3 months but that's about it for me.


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## pndwind

Medicine degrades over time.


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## Marysia2

pndwind said:


> Medicine degrades over time.


Of course, but I don't think it stops working exactly 365 days after manufacture.


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## jbraun

Would you really want to take a chance with your life?


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## pndwind

jbraun said:


> Would you really want to take a chance with your life?


I guess it depends on how much you value your life. 365,366,367.... at what point does it become ineffective? I have taken Ibuprofen 6 months out of date but I am not taking it for a life saving purpose.


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## tech.35058

Kind of twisting the topic of an old thread a little bit here ...
My epi's expired in Dec & I dutifully got new ones, but I am still carrying the old ones in my day pack, for now.
as others stated, they dont suddenly implode at 12:01 am the first day of the month after the exp date.
But , using the pack rats motto, they gotta be good for something.
What do you do with your expired pens? I think I turned them in to the police dept with a bunch of expired pain killers last year. I may just toss these into the wood burning heater in the shop, or something ... the carry case might be good to sheath a steak knife to cut honey comb with, or store drill bits, or jigsaw blades in my tool box. maybe a case for my queen marking pen, if i go back to marking with a pen.
I will probably [very carefully] disassemble one of the auto injectors, just to see how they are made.
suggestions or comments? any one?


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## Steampunked

Its old, but I kind of know the answer to this. The liquid in Epi pens crystalises over time - the expiry date marks the point they are no longer certain there are no crystals.

Injecting the crystals is easy - those things fire like the clappers! - but it is agonisingly painful and your body can't move crystals around the way it can a liquid. The only legal pens here have a window where you can view the liquid with a shake to establish if it is still fluid.

If someone was dying I'd still give an expired pen a shot in case, but a fresh one is the only certainty.


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## Bigfish

Can I please ask why you all carry Epi-Pens? I had a bad reaction to a sting awhile ago and my doctor gave me a prescription for a two pack until I can get tested... Just wondering why you have them? 
Thanks 
Bill


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## MTN-Bees

My theory is: It's better to have it and not need it then to need it and not have it. I work in some remote areas where medical assistance could be 90 minutes away if they can find me.


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## Marysia2

Bigfish said:


> Can I please ask why you all carry Epi-Pens? I had a bad reaction to a sting awhile ago and my doctor gave me a prescription for a two pack until I can get tested... Just wondering why you have them?
> Thanks
> Bill


Because you can die from anaphylactic shock. Didn't the doctor explain that to you? And it can happen to anyone at any time, and it has. Beeks who have been stung 200 times previously can suddenly have a potentially fatal reaction.

Fortunately for me, I had a bizarre reaction when I was stung on my side but my hand, which had been stung many times previously, also turned red and became swollen and itchy. I was tested and found to have a severe allergy to bee venom. I started bee venom immunotherapy and now have a much milder reaction to stings; however I still keep up to date EpiPens available.


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## jooky

its medicine and hence has a huge safety factor.. expect a 150% safety margin in date stamps


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## Bigfish

Marysia2 said:


> Because you can die from anaphylactic shock. Didn't the doctor explain that to you? And it can happen to anyone at any time, and it has. Beeks who have been stung 200 times previously can suddenly have a potentially fatal reaction.
> 
> Fortunately for me, I had a bizarre reaction when I was stung on my side but my hand, which had been stung many times previously, also turned red and became swollen and itchy. I was tested and found to have a severe allergy to bee venom. I started bee venom immunotherapy and now have a much milder reaction to stings; however I still keep up to date EpiPens available.


Yes he explained, that's why he gave me an Epi-pen. 
I was just wondering if anyone knows they have an allergy or it's just a precaution.


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## Michael Bush

>They do not put those dates on them to make money.

Seriously? Of course they do.


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## Bigfish

Michael Bush said:


> >They do not put those dates on them to make money.
> 
> Seriously? Of course they do.


My Doctor said as long as the window is clear then it is still good.


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## ruthiesbees

My doctor insisted that I have one because I am doing Bee Venom Therapy on my own. Have never needed it, but I do keep a bottle of liquid benedryl handy. Have used that a time or two when I had a systemic (not anaphalatic reaction, and not a local reaction) reaction to a sting on my head. My hands and feet started to itch like mad. The Epi-pen is only if you have a reaction where you can't breathe.


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## Don Warren

I checked out the label for the Epi Pen and it stated it should be stored at room temperature with brief exposure up to 86 degrees F. For those of you that carry the Pen, how do you deal with summer temps and having it in a vehicle or in your back pack when working out yards? Or is this a big concern?


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## RudyT

Take a small cooler with a few cold waters. Maybe even an icy one for a long day. Put the pen in a zip lock in the cooler, but not touching frozen water.


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## jamesbond

Good evening,

Do I need a prescription to get an EpiPen here in the U.S? 

Thank you,

James


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## Marysia2

Yes, you do.


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## Marysia2

jamesbond said:


> Good evening,
> 
> Do I need a prescription to get an EpiPen here in the U.S?
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> James


Yes, you do.


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## tech.35058

jamesbond said:


> Good evening,
> 
> Do I need a prescription to get an EpiPen here in the U.S?
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> James


Yes, but with most doctors it is probably automafic when you tell them tou are a beekeeper.
( more automatic than i am personally comfortable with )


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## ruthiesbees

tech.35058 said:


> Yes, but with most doctors it is probably automafic when you tell them tou are a beekeeper.
> ( more automatic than i am personally comfortable with )


All I had to do was tell my primary care physician that I was using bee venom for my arthritis, and he wrote the script without me asking (his wife is a beekeeper)


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## Andhors

I injected myself with epinephrine subcutaneously after a sting (had an allergic reaction in the past) and I think I came close to calamity. Not all venoms have the same antigens and your response to antigens will change over time. Don’t use epi unless you are in serious trouble. Take some antihistamine pills and topical antihistamine and steroid cream at the sting site. It is likely that many bad outcomes from allergies are iatrogenic (treatment caused), like a heart attack from an epi injection.


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## dchap1469

I realize this is an old thread, but instead of an epi pen I asked my Dr for a 1ml vial of epi and 3 syringes total cost $12.50. The usual dose is .3ml of epi so the vial gives three doses.


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## Andhors

Dchap, that’s what I did. Don’t accidentally draw up the wrong dose. If you are going down that road then get some diphenhydramine too. Much less risk. No heart attack. I still think the risk of epinephrine is usually higher than the bee sting (based on anecdotes.)


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## Tigger19687

ruthiesbees said:


> I was using bee venom for my arthritis


Ruth, how has that worked for you ? Just curious, sorry OT


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## ruthiesbees

Tigger19687 said:


> Ruth, how has that worked for you ? Just curious, sorry OT


It has helped. A sting or two on my knee will keep it good for about 3 weeks. I also use the topical Venex cream that Michael Simics out of Canada produces.


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## Tigger19687

Thank you , that is good to know !


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## Akademee

EpiPen is a brand name and is extremely expensive, but they make generic epinephrine auto injectors called Adrenaclick now that are basically the same as EpiPens but apparently are legally distinct enough to be a 'different' product. Literal life saver. If you ask your doctor for an EpiPen, he'she will write you a Rx for the brand name EpiPen and you will be out a lot of money. But if you specifically ask for the generic, you will get a Rx for that. A two pack runs me $60.

The vials and syringes are certainly cheaper, but the whole point of an auto injector is that it is pre-dosed and spring loaded so when you going through shock and lose your fine motor skills, you can administer it yourself with minimal ability. Always ask your doctor what options are available to you.


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