# How many frames in YOUR radial extractor



## BrennerBeeFarms (Aug 30, 2016)

I have been running a 12 frame extractor for... maybe two decades. I am just finishing up building a new (above ground) honey house. My Dad is suggesting I get a new stainless extractor. I have really come to love my old 12, which I painted with food approved clear epoxy paint. I can run 2 or more loads with the honey gate closed.It really has some great capacity. What is almost more important to ME is throughput. I can run and run and run with a full load, but you are always going to end with a partial load in the end. Here is where a 12 REALLY shines:
I can balance a load with 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 9, 10, or 12 frames. So I rarely even think about how many frames are left until I'm doing the last two boxes... AND I can mix shallows and mediums all day long with little effort.

How about a 9: (3,6, or 9 frames)
and an 8: (2,4,6, or 8 frames)
So an 8 is good only for even numbers and 9 is only good for odd numbers.
An 18 would be good, but a little more complicated to load out for all the factors that would go into it but, why-oh-why do manufacturers want to make a 16 or a 20?

Currently there are really only 2 manufacturers attempting to make a product to fill this niche. Shouldn't everyone want a 12? I think they would, if they had ever used one much... but how are they going to get one if the manufacturers don't make them?


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## Munson (Mar 16, 2014)

I have the older Dadant 8 tangential that (after talking to the plant that makes this) change the basket and make it a radial 12 frame. You think it's worth the $400ish?


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## BrennerBeeFarms (Aug 30, 2016)

It seems the construction of the basket is a major thing. If you are handy welding stainless it seems you could do a great deal with a variety of shells you might find on the cheap.


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

BrennerBeeFarms said:


> but, why-oh-why do manufacturers want to make a 16 or a 20?


If I you can balance 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 9, 10, or 12 frames in a 12 frame extractor then could you balance 2, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, or 20 in a 20 frame extractor? Five is the wildcard that lets you process a large odd number of frames -- if you plan well. I end up working with partial loads, wonky comb, frames that are drawn on only one side or only covering part of one side, and frames that vary in weight due to varying cell depth.


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

Welcome to Beesource!

Seems like a pair of 24's, 36's, or 72's would make a lot of sense, too, in terms of balancing the last few loads. 2 extractors is a nice thing, in that one can load one while the other is accelerating, saving a bunch of time.


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

Riverderwent said:


> If I you can balance 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 9, 10, or 12 frames in a 12 frame extractor then could you balance 2, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, or 20 in a 20 frame extractor?


And 15. You could balance 2, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 15, 16, 18, or 20 in a 20 frame extractor.


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## SWM (Nov 17, 2009)

I think you can balance a partial load in just about any size extractor. I've sometimes even used some frames already extracted to get the proper balance when necessary. It's all about the weight, not the number of frames.


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## rkereid (Dec 20, 2009)

I always balance the last, partial, load in my Maxant 20 frame radial. Just spread out whatever is left evenly. Works every time.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

If you are happy with your extractor...keep it. Let your dad buy his own. 
I run a Maxant 20 frame and I can always manage to balance the last load. There are any number of ways to do so....no magic.


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## BrennerBeeFarms (Aug 30, 2016)

Riverderwent said:


> And 15. You could balance 2, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 15, 16, 18, or 20 in a 20 frame extractor.


I now realize there are probably several factors in play. One is certainly load balancing, but there are additional considerations:

Timing
Uncapping tank capacity
Speed of loading and unloading
Mixed frame sizes
Familiarity

Because I run shallows and mediums it is not just about loading a partial load. That is why numbers like 3 and 9 are important to me. I suppose 6 and 18 might be somewhat workable in a 20 - Although, I would still have that as an option in an 18 frame extractor - without giving up 3 and 9.

I usually have two stacks for unloading, a medium pile and a shallow pile. Mixing the load between the two sizes means I almost always run 6 and 6 or 3 and 9.

My uncapping tank can stack up about 6 frames before I have difficulty with enough space to continue uncapping. That is about right for the time it takes to spin out a load. I would like to have a bigger uncapping capacity, but that is another $800. Maybe a second small one could add resting capacity.

I can easily put together loading patterns from what is in front of me without too much thinking. Maybe that could improve with some practice with another size extractor. But most of the time I have a bunch of distractions with people asking me where the jars are, do I want to segregate dark and light honey, what do I want for lunch, can I have some money, etc.

Most of all the uncapping seems to be the bottle-neck in extracting... and while I would LOVE to have a flail uncapping machine, I'm going to have to run a BUNCH more hives to justify that expense. Then all the other experience is going to be different as well. Uncapping a dozen and spinning a dozen just seems to work out about right for me.

I appreciate all the good comments about the merits of a 20, but I still can't quite get there logically. I am sure they work well for some - but I don't know if I have the need or desire to figure out how they would work for me.


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## BrennerBeeFarms (Aug 30, 2016)

Munson - If you are buying - get it quick. If you are selling - do you have a source for the new basket?


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## SWM (Nov 17, 2009)

BBF,
Buy a Dadant 20 frame...it's only $354 dollars more than their 12 frame and it will actually hold 36 frames, 3 times the capacity. And since 36 is a multiple of 12 then you can load it exactly like you do today with 3 times as many frames. Problem solved! Take a deep breath and relax.


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## rolftonbees (Jul 10, 2014)

I have a nine and have used odd numbers several times. for example if I have some thin or partial frames I might put two in two sections and balance them with a single heavy frame in the third section. 

If I have a couple of really heavy frames I might put them in 1and 3 then put all three frames I the other two sections. 

I have also used a partial or spun frame to even out two heavier frames with I their section to equal the other two sections.


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

I run 2 each 32's which will hold 64 mediums - about 15 gallons per spin.
run 1 - while loading the other


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

double post


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## D Coates (Jan 6, 2006)

I can't figure out why 12 is the magic number to you but so what. To each his own. I use a Dadant 20/36. I can't imagine going down to 12. That's not even two complete supers. I'm doing over 4 complete supers per spin (8 frames per 10 frame box. I'll probably be getting another Dadant 20/36 next year. So I can run one while loading another. At the end of the harvest move the frames around such that they off balance themselves. It takes no time to figure it out.


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

Am starting to look at newer extractors. Mine is ancient but I like it and it's getting me by.
Have discovered that each hive, each super, and maybe even each frame has it's own flavor and moisture content etc.
Doing small batches so each super is in it's own bucket. So far it's fun but I can see that's going to end. 
Been focused on the 9-frame maxant for now. It'd fit my system and maybe speed things up a little bit. At least I could quit the hand-cranking.
My old crank beast does it pretty quick though.


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## Boglehead (Feb 16, 2009)

SWM said:


> BBF,
> Buy a Dadant 20 frame...it's only $354 dollars more than their 12 frame and it will actually hold 36 frames, 3 times the capacity. And since 36 is a multiple of 12 then you can load it exactly like you do today with 3 times as many frames. Problem solved! Take a deep breath and relax.


How is it you load it with 36 frames? Any trick?


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## D Coates (Jan 6, 2006)

Boglehead said:


> How is it you load it with 36 frames? Any trick?


No. 20 is for deep frames. There are 5 grooves per section for them. If you're using supers/mediums you can fit an extra frame between 4 of the 5 grooves. Hence why it's called a 20/36.


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## Boglehead (Feb 16, 2009)

Thanks. I have Maxanto 1400. I'll look closers if it has this ability as well


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

I am currently working on building a 90 frame radial. We use 9 frames in deeps only, and stack them 5 high on the truck. One load will be 2 stacks.

Barry may quickly point out that this project is moving about as fast as my foundation mill, and that comp;etion is not expected in the near future.

Crazy Roland, slow but unstoppable like a glacier


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## rolftonbees (Jul 10, 2014)

As a hobbyist, I also separate the frames according to color, and honey type. The 9 frame seems good for these smaller batches. If I had more than about 20 hives, I could seriously see the need for a much larger electric machine.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

Elderly dadant 32 frame with automatic speed advance box. I bought it for $1600 when I had six hives. Did my crop in two loads. It made more sense than the ten frame Radial That would have cost about the same new.


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