# New beekeeper in AL trying to transition Nuc to Warre Hive



## sandmtn (Jul 7, 2016)

Hi from Northeast Alabama. 

Read about Warre hives and decided to go that route. After placing an order for a hive and reading some more, I realized that going with a Warre might be asking for trouble. I tried but couldn't cancel the order. So decided to go forward with it. I don't know of anyone locally who has Warre hives.

I started somewhat late and am worried that the bees may not get prepared well enough before winter. 

I picked up a nuc on June 3rd and put the five nuc frames with bees and three top bars in a transition box made by modifying an 8-frame langstroth box (blocked out the open areas). I set the transition box on top of two Warre boxes with top bars and added an inner and outer cover.

I fed a pint per day of 1:1 sugar syrup with an entrance feeder for two weeks in which time there was some robbing and increasingly so through the two weeks. I reduced the entrance but was only able to stop the robbing by draping a wet sheet over the hive. I stopped feeding after that. 

I've been seeing them bringing in lots of pollen. It seems like there are lots of bees and activity in the hive. The bees have built a small plate-sized comb on one of the top bars in the transition box. They seem satisfied and have not been aggressive at all. And I've seen no more robbers.

Two weeks ago, I realized that the bees will need more feeding in order to draw comb and so ordered a top feeder. We've had drought conditions and there's not much nectar out there for them. 

Yesterday I opened the hive and looked at the frames. Since it was my first time I failed to pay attention to looking for brood and whatnot. I was mainly just rattled by seeing so much empty comb and very little honey. 

I installed the top feeder but didn't add the syrup until this morning because I saw some robber bees there while the hive was opened. The entrance is still reduced and I am monitoring closely for robbing. I plan to add a robber screen if I see any more going on.

I also removed one of the Warre boxes and moved the top bar with comb out of the transition box down to the Warre box. The comb looks largely empty but there were lots of bees on it then and still now. Hope I didn't make a mistake in moving it down.

I found the queen on the inside side of one of the outside nuc frames (next to an empty top bar). I had expected her to be more in the center. It was a hot day so maybe she was where it would be cooler for her.

I'm also dealing with sugar ants and they were even more determined to get in the hive today. Pretty much stopped the ants for now with diatomaceous earth smeared around the stand legs, hive base/feet, and strapping.

One issue I haven't dealt with yet are the beetles. I killed about five yesterday and one today. Local beekeeping friends use a trap with some sort of essential oils I think.

I am wondering if my bees have enough time before winter to draw comb and prepare enough stores. And if they will draw comb on the top bars that I can move down so I can get them fully transitioned to the Warre hive.

So I am also wondering if I should just call it a day on the Warre hive and instead just let the hive be a Langstroth. Along with ordering the feeder I also ordered an 8-frame super with frames and foundation. So I have it that I could place on the hive.

Any advice and knowledge shared will be greatly appreciated. Hopefully I haven't bogged you all down with too much detail.

Thanks, Donna


----------



## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

Welcome! Use mineral oil or cooking oil from your kitchen in the beetle traps. Too much space (really surface) to defend is an issue with small hive beetles and other intruders (robber bees).


----------



## HiveMind (Jul 6, 2010)

You're off to an exciting start! I didn't start off using Warre's method. I switched to it last Fall and I'm very impressed. 100℅ survival through Winter. Largest honey harvest ever this year. No bearding whatsoever with temps 90-100° this Summer. I'm glad to hear you're sticking with it. 

In general I wouldn't move frames around at all until the colony is somewhat established. Even then with Warre you don't typically move frames around. Just boxes to add empties at the bottom. Don't be too anxious to get your setup looking like a proper Warre. 

Feeding at this time of year is tough. Just try to keep the entrance very small so the guards have a chance to pat everybody down on the way in. 

Your nuc box will hopefully get backfilled with honey as the colony moves down into newly drawn comb. You may want to leave it that way through Winter (unless your nuc box is one of those cardboard nuc boxes).


----------



## Houstonbees (Jul 7, 2014)

Hello Donna, 
Gunther here, in Houston, therefore "Houstonbees". I started with Warre's 3 years ago and stuck with them as I liked the management philosophy and self built design. Because you started late and we've entered the dearth, I belive it's going to be tough to get them to transition over to the Warre. My thoughts?---since they are in a Nuc and you've ordered the 8 frame super, frames, foundation, leave them in the Nuc for now. Build them up so they can possibly transition to the 8 frame equipment if the hive gets large enough, or have the option of getting them through the winter in the Nuc. Start the Warre next year with a caught swarm or a package and run them next to each other and see which one you like best. I don't want to turn you away from the Warre, I want you to get your Nuc through winter first. Good places to look for information regarding both hives---TheWarrestore.com , Biobees.com (website run out of England largely devoted to treatment free management, English "National" type hive and Warre hives), Beesource.com.
Hope this information helps,
Gunther


----------



## sandmtn (Jul 7, 2016)

AmericasBeekeeper, Thanks for the tip about the beetles. Cooking oil sounds easy.

HiveMind and Houstonbees, I am very much excited about the bees and using the Warre method. Your success is inspiring! I do want to get there with the Warre hive. Thanks for your encouragement.

HiveMind, I will try to be patient and resist moving the comb.

Houstonbees, When you say build them up, are you talking about feeding or growing in number? I am seeing a lot of bees. I'm pretty sure there are many more now than when I got the nuc. 

I would really love to get that Warre box filled in before winter if possible but I am also realizing that is looking unlikely. At what point should I install the Lang super? And should I put the 5 frames that came with the nuc in an 8-frame Lang box with 3 empty frames? Or maybe use the one top bar with comb already on it and 2 empty frames? Ok and then should I remove the Warre box altogether? I have considered going with Lang type with this colony already. I definitely want to overwinter these bees safely and get them to survive on their own during the winter since I will be away for about 6 weeks.

I will do some more reading and on the sites you suggest. I appreciate your help.

Donna


----------



## GaryG74 (Apr 9, 2014)

Welcome to BeeSource from west AL. Which ever hive you stick with, the bees will need to be fed to draw comb. A strong hive out of the shade most of the day will help keep the SHB under control. Good luck and enjoy your bees.


----------



## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

I just read the reprint of abby warres free book.
http://www.users.callnetuk.com/~heaf/beekeeping_for_all.pdf

It is old. I found a couple of things interesting in it to your situation. This is my understanding of what I read but maby not what was really writen. I find understanding old books hard.

1. He felt late purchases during the derth worthless.
2. He was big on starting with at least 4 lbs of bees.
3. he was big on destroying all brood when placing the bees for the first time. He thought the took to much resourses in the start. This would work well for you with a hive that was built up to just when the flow started as you could just dump it like a package.

4. he was big on filling the hive at the start of the flow.

I found quite a few interestng things , some of which more is known about and practices have changed on. A few that where interesting and might be used today or that I atleast found interesting where things like putting the box over a black cloth for a few seconds and then look and if you see a few eggs on the cloth, that is the box with the queen in it.
I am new and have no ideal if I am helping or hurting but hope my post is a help.
Good luck
gww


----------



## sandmtn (Jul 7, 2016)

GaryG74, Thanks for the welcome. I will keep feeding until they draw comb and I know they have enough winter stores. I've already placed the bees under poplar trees where my dad had bee hives many years ago. I have been reading about Small Hive beetles that I'm seeing in my hive. The Freeman bottom board trap looks like an attractive solution for a Lang hive. If I remove the Warre box and go Lang all the way for this colony, I will probably use this type to trap the beetles. I will place the Warre hive for my next colony in a sunny spot.

gww, I have that book too and also find it tedious to read and glean practical information from. I appreciate your taking the time to reply. Those are some things for me to consider the next time. At this point I'm leaning toward making this colony a Lang and starting a Warre next year - hopefully getting my timing right.

Donna


----------



## Tessw8 (Jul 27, 2016)

Hi late starter from alabama too! Just here to follow your thread. If you don't mind me asking where were you able to find a nuc? I've had no luck locating one.


----------



## sandmtn (Jul 7, 2016)

Hi Tessw8, Just now saw your post. I got my nuc from Pigeon Mountain in Lafayette, GA. I believe they're out of stock now but you could check.

I know a local (northeast AL) beekeeper who may have one that he would sell you. He just started selling nucs this year but I didn't know it until after I had ordered. Let me know if you want me to ask him for you.


----------



## Tessw8 (Jul 27, 2016)

Thanks I have since located one. A member on here contacted me may be the same person


----------

