# Bee Stings.... your opinion



## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

I had the opprotunity to take out someone who is new to beekeeping today and was an Ag. student. He asked a lot of good questions but one somewhat puzzeled me.

He simply asked: "What is the best way to reduce the itching to bee stings? Than he asked "What is the best way to cure or reduce the swelling and pain of a bee sting?".

I told him that I just go with it and usually do not apply anything but I thought that it was a bad answer to give him.

Any suggestions or ideas?


----------



## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

He is wiring a paper on beekeeping and would like things that work. Not "well my great great grandma used to use....". He wants stuff that will work.


----------



## NW IN Beekeeper (Jun 29, 2005)

Do a search for "Denver Sting Stop" and "plantain" on Beesource.com 

Sometimes a simple search saves a lot of answered questions.


----------



## sc-bee (May 10, 2005)

Doing a search on "plantain" on the net. and looking at pictures.
Is it what we refered to in the south as rabbit tobacco? I think the picture looks the same and that is what we were told it was as kids.(of course we had to try it  !)

[ April 20, 2006, 01:49 AM: Message edited by: sc-bee ]


----------



## Sherpa1 (Dec 10, 2005)

Sting Kill is available at the drug store and contains a local anesthetic (benzocaine) which aleviates the pain of a sting. Benadryl cream or hydrocortisone cream will aleviate the itching of a sting. Benadryl tablets taken by mouth also help prevent a more systemic reaction.

[ April 20, 2006, 02:58 AM: Message edited by: NoviceBee ]


----------



## abeille (Jun 12, 2003)

Kalamin (or calamin) creams work well for the itching.


----------



## FordGuy (Jul 10, 2005)

jim beam cures all. really.


----------



## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

To me the most important first step is to scrape off the stinger ASAP. Benadryl cream followed later with hydrocortizone cream will get er' done.


----------



## ONG (Feb 5, 2006)

Toothpaste


----------



## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

Fordguy said:

_jim beam cures all. really._

I know he was saying that in jest, but
be advised, as both a serious beekeeper
and a two-fisted drinker, I can assure you
that this is one of the *WORST* ways
to deal with the "I feel kinda woozy" effect
from multiple-sting incidents.

I don't drink beer much, so I can't say how
beer reacts with venom, but you really oughta
wanna stay away from the hard liquor if you've
taken more than a few stings, and you always
want to stay away from it if the stings have
made you woozy.

Your bio-chemical make-up and mileage may vary.


----------



## FordGuy (Jul 10, 2005)

Excellent point Jim.


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>He simply asked: "What is the best way to reduce the itching to bee stings? Than he asked "What is the best way to cure or reduce the swelling and pain of a bee sting?".

Plantain is the best thing I know of. I recently searched on Yahoo on "plantain" and "stings" and it returns 62,000 results.


----------



## Bill Ruble (Jan 2, 2006)

He simply asked: "What is the best way to reduce the itching to bee stings? Than he asked "What is the best way to cure or reduce the swelling and pain of a bee sting?".

You can all use whatever, but I have THE one sure cure. TIME!!!!!


----------



## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

tooth paste does work great. I tried some the other day


----------



## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

>Not "well my great great grandma used to use....". He wants stuff that will work.

You dis'n my grandmother?

So. Plantain. Lots of testimonials on the web, and lots of methods of application. Apparently both Plantago majus (broad leaf plantain) and Plantago lanceolata (long leaf plantain) work, but the former is preferred. I've got both growing around here.

The most common method is to chew a leaf and put the pulp on the sting. Another site suggests plantain leaves can be dried and carried in your first aid kit, you just chew a dried leaf to reconstitute it. You all carry a first aid kit, right???

Then I found a site offering 2 oz jars of plantain salve made from plantain, olive oil, and beeswax, for $10.80.

The only problem of course, since I've started using Epiphany for Beekeepers, it appears I won't be getting stung any more...


----------



## JP (Jul 10, 2005)

Sundance hit it right, got to remove that venom sac asap.Yesterday, doing a removal on some angry bees there were times where I couldn't remove the venom sac right away due to my hands were full with brood comb and lots of bees while I was placing the comb into empty frames. Afterwards I could remove the sac but I'm paying for it still today. I did find that 4 Ibuprofins took down the swelling though pretty quickly.


----------



## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

As kids we were constantly getting nailed by burning nettles. Fortunatly Jewelweed was often close by as they occupy the same niche. We open the hollow shaft and rub the fluid on the sting. Works well for insect bites as well.

http://altnature.com/jewelweed.htm


----------



## Ruben (Feb 11, 2006)

Quote: jim beam cures all. really


It's made me bullet proof a few times are you saying it will make me sting proof also?


----------



## John R (Feb 11, 2006)

I know this is "Grandma sounding" but it really works, and it really works well....baking soda. In the palm of your hand, mix a small amount (tablespoon) with just enough water to make a thick paste, smear the paste over the sting, give it a couple minutes to dry enough it becomes crumbly and wipe it off....done!...it works. Really effective with wasp and y.jacket stings too. 
But, ...it may be too "Grandma" for 2006.


----------



## beecron (Nov 7, 2004)

I'm really surprised that nobody has offered up the meat tenderizer paste remedy. Haven't tried it, but heard several times that a paste made of meat tenderizer and water works wonders.


----------



## Sourwood (Mar 20, 2005)

Water Displacement #40. Or at least that was something someone told me once. I remember trying it once, but no solid proof that it worked. I think the itching and swelling went away fast because I was "getting" used to stings when I tried it. Amazing of the things you hear or will try....


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

A search on Yahoo for the following had these results:

wd40 insect stings 94 results
asprin insect stings 252 results
benedryl insect stings 422 results
tenderizer insect stings 1,870 results"baking soda" insect stings 8,840 results
plantain insect stings 54,100 results


----------



## BruceBee (Apr 2, 2006)

I've tried icing in conjunction with baking soda paste on the last two stings that I received and I don't think it helped very much. I had considerable swelling that peaked about 36 hours after the sting was received. I'd have tried plantain but haven't seen any around here.

I also heard that the normal progression is for the local reaction to get more and more severe with each new sting received up to a certain point after which the severity goes down. If that is true, the point at which you are in that progression will influence the results you see for various treatments.

Here's a story from Slate of a guy that got himself stung multiple times and found that toothpaste and ice were the best treatments: http://www.slate.com/id/2088863/


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I've tried icing in conjunction with baking soda paste on the last two stings that I received and I don't think it helped very much.

I think it's slightly better than nothing.









>I'd have tried plantain but haven't seen any around here.

I'm pretty sure it grows everywhere. At least everywhere I've ever looked.

>I also heard that the normal progression is for the local reaction to get more and more severe with each new sting received up to a certain point after which the severity goes down.

That's been my experience. Usually the first sting or maybe the second of a season is the worst and after that they are hardly noticable.

> If that is true, the point at which you are in that progression will influence the results you see for various treatments.

Certainly.

But Plantain is instantaneous. It's immediately better. It will get better over time anyway, so if it's not immediate how would you know it worked?

Most anything that "draws" the poison will help some. This includes most poultices of things like meat tenderizer, salt, aspirin, tobacco etc. But none of them passes the "instant" test.


----------



## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

just a bar of glycerin soad (acquired in mexico) does it all for me...


----------



## backyardfarmer (Apr 9, 2006)

I stupidly let myself get stung during installation- and I got it right between the lower eyebrow and eye- or it might have even been on the eye lid. I got the stinger out immediately, and it seemed fine, however the next morning it was SWOLLEN (despite taking benedryl the sting night)- then it actually got worse the next day. I wound up getting a shot of cortisone to relieve the pain as well as an epi pen which I would rather not use.  

How much truth is there to the notion that sting reactions will get repeatedly worse?

Do you think that most people who got stung on the eye would swell up like that or does this sound like a "more sever" reaction?

THANKS


----------



## BruceBee (Apr 2, 2006)

I had similar concerns and based on my reading this sounds pretty typical. Perhaps the cortisone was necessary due to the sensitive location of the sting and the pain caused by swelling in that area. I've included a few links to interesting articles about sting reactions that I've recently found.

The second one says that "patients who have been sensitized by prior stings may display large, local reactions including 10-50 cm edematous swellings forming 4-12 hr post-sting and persisting for 3 to 4 days".

http://www.honeybeeworld.com/misc/stings.htm
http://spiders.ucr.edu/dermatol.html
http://apis.ifas.ufl.edu/apis87/apjul87.htm
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/AA159


----------



## Keith Benson (Feb 17, 2003)

"How much truth is there to the notion that sting reactions will get repeatedly worse"

Depedns on the individual. For many - they decrease in severeity as the season wears on. Come july, I can hardly find a sting when I get home from the aipiary

Keith


----------



## Fuzzy (Aug 4, 2005)

"The second one says that "patients who have been sensitized by prior stings may display large, local reactions including 10-50 cm edematous swellings forming 4-12 hr post-sting and persisting for 3 to 4 days"."

I wish !! Try a large local reaction of 1 meter (whole arm) Swelling beginning about 20hrs and growing for 72-96hrs. Water blisters under the skin. Finally going away after 7-9 days.

Doctor advises to NOT elevate the arm to help prevent it from spreading into the chest/neck.

No fun !


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

My first one of the season is usually the worst and after a bad one they get better. I had one last spring on the leg that swelled my ankle up so much I couldn't walk. All of them since have been hard to tell where I got stung a minute or two later. That includes the three yesterday which were my first for the year.

In my experiece they get less.


----------



## Marcus Griffin (Feb 3, 2005)

12 oz of mead taken orally 3x daily until symptoms go away.


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I will make two more observations.

First, there are people who say don't take tylonel or ibupropen if you are a beekeeper. They can cause severe reactions to stings. Since I never do and have always used asprin I have no actual experience with this, but I would avoid them.

Second, if you want a treatment, especially in the first few moments of a bad sting (as evidenced by the extreme pain and itching) use plantain. It is by far the most effective. If you can't get that use something that will draw the poison. A poultice of tobacco, salt, meat tenderizer, wet crushed asprin, baking soda etc.

If you're not having much of a reaction, don't do anything.


----------



## artic (Feb 18, 2005)

I've had about 5 stings this season from my bees with no real reaction other than some minor swelling for a day or two and light itchiness at the locations. I was fully aware of each sting as it happened, but the actual injection pain was nominal. However just the other day I was stung by another beekeepers bees, just once, it hurt real good and my entire forearm was swollen by the next morning, its rather itchy too. Is it common for different bees to pack such a different punch? (my bees are local hybrid-Russian, the other was a from a supposedly purebred Russian queen)


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I don't think it's by breed. All stings are just not created equal.


----------



## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

>don't take tylonel or ibupropen if you are a beekeeper. They can cause severe reactions to stings.

I don't buy that. I have been having a problem with a bad shoulder and have been taking Ibupropen three times a day and I have had only one bad reaction from nearly fifty stings already. I did a cut-out last week and got about 15, (I don't stop to remove stingers while working), two days later there was no sign of the stings. Then again, everyones different.

> I was stung by another beekeepers bees, just once, it hurt real good and my entire forearm was swollen by the next morning, its rather itchy too.

I've noticed that sometimes. I had one a couple of weeks ago while inspecting a house that I was able to scrape the stinger out right away and it was like the ones I used to get, that sucker hurt all day. I have heard that the age of the bee makes a difference in the reaction of it's venom.

One thing I do know is that you don't want to get stung by a dead bee. I did that last year while squeezing honeycomb from a cut-out, and my finger is still not right.


----------



## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

micahael bush adds:
I don't think it's by breed. All stings are just not created equal.

tecumseh replies:
as we use to comment the first 1/32 of an inch of a honeybees sting is fact the remaining 2 inches in purely conjecture.

recently I was doing a removal at a neighbors house who is a retire small animal vet. during the removal one of his very small dogs bolted and ended up getting mobbed so severly that it died. we began to talk (I on the scaffold and he just behind the window screen) about alergic reaction to bee stings. he explained to me the timing between the first and second sting is absolutely critical. it seems the critical time interval is about 10 days. this being the time when the body is building immunity to fight off the venom. the kicker is if you receive the second sting prior to the end of the 10 day interval then the second sting can create a super alergic reaction in which the bodies defences turns againist itself.

we also talked about the mite situation for which he had some very interesting insites.


----------



## Tatonka (Jul 6, 2005)

Where do I get plantain in Arizona? Is it the leaf of that banana looking fruit I see in the store?

Eric


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I don't buy that. I have been having a problem with a bad shoulder and have been taking Ibupropen three times a day...

I know of no hard evidence on this, but I suspect tylenol is the more likely culprit simply because the action of Ibupropen is too similar to the action of asprin and other salicylates.

>Where do I get plantain in Arizona? Is it the leaf of that banana looking fruit I see in the store?

This: http://weeds.cropsci.uiuc.edu/images/Broadleafplantain/images/broadleaf%20plantain.jpg

or this:

http://www.wildcrafting.com/OldWildCraft/album1/Plantain.jpg

Not this:

http://www.all-creatures.org/recipes/images/i-plantain.jpg

or this:

http://sarasota.extension.ufl.edu/FCS/FlaFoodFare/plantain.jpg

I can't say if it grows in Arizona. Are there plants there?


----------



## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

Last summer when I was having that bout with the infected sting, the doctor told me to take Allegra BEFORE I work the bees. He said it would boost my natural resistance. I usually forgot, especially after my hand started fitting back into the glove.


----------



## Flyer Jim (Apr 22, 2004)

The last part of this link is about IBprofen. http//www.beevenom.com/beevenomallergy.htm
-----------
Jim


----------



## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

You left out the : after the http. 
http://www.beevenom.com/beevenomallergy.htm


----------



## Flyer Jim (Apr 22, 2004)

Sorry about that.  
Jim


----------



## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

>"The British Medical Journal (292:378, 1986) reported on two cases which can be of interest to beekeepers who are taking nonsteriod anti-inflammatory drugs. According to this report beekeepers who were previously not hypersensitive to bee or wasp stings took anti-inflammatory drugs and became hypersensitive. In one of the cases the patient had to be hospitalized. After the patient discontinued taking the drugs, the immune system recovered and only the usual local reactions occurred from the bee and wasp stings. Beekeepers should think before they begin any kind of treatment with anti-inflammatory drugs that contain ibuprofen, naproxen, fenoprofen, sulindac, piroxicam, ketoprofen, tolmetin or suprofent. "

They don't say what percentage of beekeepers became hypersensitive. I only know that I am not even though I am taking Ibuprofen.


----------



## clintonbemrose (Oct 23, 2001)

After a few years you don't even feel them. I found that if I used the smoker on the sting that the heat and smoke took away most of the problem and masked the ferimone so other bees did not sting me.
Clint


----------



## Tom Chaudoir (Nov 20, 2005)

New beekeeper here.

When I hived my first package it taught me what not to do on the second. Half a dozen stings on #1, none on #2. 

They didn't hurt as much as I'd anticipated. A couple of hours and most were memory. The one on my wrist swelled up enough that I didn't want to wear my watch for a day. It was a little tender.

I didn't wait 10 days between stings, but that theory isn't busted. What we seem to have proved here is that one man's horrible reaction is another man's irritation. "Your results may vary."


----------



## brent.roberts (Dec 31, 2005)

I was picking up some supplies at our local bee shop and they had some Denver's on the counter. Took one to try. Got 3 stings later yesterday when I was putting on what I had bought. 

Seemed like some releive from the immediate pain but within 10 minutes it was pain a usual. Today the swelling is the same as normal.

To me, Denver's is useless except to line the pockets of the maker and seller. $8 for a tiny jar that might have a teaspoon full, and the jar has a dished bottom so you get less of a useless product than it appears.

Two thumbs down on Denvers from me.


----------



## Hobie (Jun 1, 2006)

Whoever said that about carrying a dried plaintain leaf in your first aid kit and chewing it when needed has clearly never tried to chew a dried leaf.

'Nuf said.


----------



## cphilip (May 25, 2006)

"I've tried icing..."

Chocolate I assume?


----------



## Tom Chaudoir (Nov 20, 2005)

Chewing plantain leaves works. You don't even have to put it on the sting. The taste is evil! Your attention will be diverted away from the sting while you work on keeping ownership of your latest meal


----------



## marimus (Jul 15, 2006)

Here in australia we have a product called Stingose. Its been around for years, and mum always kept some in the car, in case we got stung.

http://www.pfizer.com.au/Products/Stingose/Default.aspx

Active ingredient is Aluminium Sulphate, sometimes called alum, which is used to clarify drinking water. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_sulfate


----------



## kenpkr (Apr 6, 2004)

As soon as the stinger goes in, take your hive tool and whack yourself as hard as you can in the same exact spot, multiple times, if needeed. You won't feel the sting anymore. Guaranteed!


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Whoever said that about carrying a dried plaintain leaf in your first aid kit and chewing it when needed has clearly never tried to chew a dried leaf.

I've never said it and I've never tried it.









I just mash it and rub it on fresh. I've never had trouble finding any during the time of year I get stung.


----------



## JKJ (Jun 22, 2006)

You can treat the *symptoms* from the sting venom various ways with varied results.

I prefer to treat the source of the problem. I use a powerful little plastic suction device called The Extractor, mentioned on this forum before. My experience: If applied soon enough (after immediately removing the stinger of course), it will not only stop the pain but greatly reduce swelling and eliminate the itching. It sucks at least some of the venom back out of the skin, so guess what, at least that venom can't go to work! You can actually watch the venom being pulled out of the skin into a little droplet on the surface. It's almost like "reversing" the sting.

Works well on yellowjacket, wasp, and even mosquito. I've even had it reduce my normal 2-4 month severe itching reaction to tick bites to about three days. Before using this on yellowjacket stings, I had experienced severe swelling of my arm, for example, from my fingertips to my shoulder which lasted many hours. To contrast, with the suction I've had only a quarter-sized minor swelling which was gone in an hour or so.

The only problem I've ever had was reaching the middle of my back without help - I had to find a mirror and lean against the wall to activate the suction plunger.

JKJ


----------

