# Economic Threshold..Money you wish you never spent



## kwest (May 16, 2009)

i wish i never had spent money on foundation, on pollen patties. I have yet to ever buy any sort of treatment. I go foundationless and treatment free. it saves money and promotes naturally healthy bees. i am working towards using no sugar or feed. i also think bee suits are nice but a long sleeved teeshirt and helmet with veil is cheeper and works for me. i used to look at beekeeping books as neat stuff to buy. now i have almost no intrest in them as i need very little of the stuff.


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

Kwest,
How many hives do you have? Is your focus on pollination,honey production,breeding or a little of each.
Do the bees pay the bills? I didn't know that commercial guys could run foundation less.


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## sevenmmm (Mar 5, 2011)

I look at all the spent money on devices as experiments. Some fail my methods and some work out very well.

Think very soon this knowledge will be more valuable than the funny money in the bank.


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

I am a firm believer in never cutting corners on health and nutrition. Won't over feed or over medicate but i believe good healthy bees are worth it.

However things i have bought that i wish i had not...there are a few.
The reason, started out as a hobby. Thinking you need every thing it says in the book...
...bee brush, have a couple of those
...frame lifters. When we were lifting those hard to lift frames, but learn to use a hive tool properly, can get out just about any frame now. I will say they seed well in the grass around the hives. Lawn mower blades and these lifters do not get on well... 
...frame spacer for honey supers.
...some times i can not justify why we bought a used frame rest. And other times whe the ground is muddy, can not believe why we did not buy one in the beginning.
...frame feeders, something we rarely use but have.
...hubby bought a pile of these can things, about the size of tomato soup cans for the hives. He made stands for the hives and put legs on them to reduce the chance of ants getting in. Cans are in an old bus somewhere.
I am sure there are more things out there, and they are remenants of the hobby days.


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

I thought for a minute about getting one of those frame spacers.


A better way to ask my question ... 
What things have you used to increase production or decrease loss but discontinued due to cost.
Example- A practice reduces hive loss by 5% but cost $10.00 per hive. You decided that is not the best use of your money


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

bought a kelly boom loader just when everyone started using skid loaders. never used it. brain dead moment.


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

Beeware, I have to ask. Why did everyone go skid loaders? The boom loader seems such a good idea. It seems like it would be lighter to transport and cheaper to buy, maintain, and run.


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

while it would save labor the skid loader is just so much faster. also the skid loader is great for making new yards and is just handy. You have to haul a trailer but a boom loader takes away from gvw. you can have a higher gvw with a trailer and skid.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Adrian Quiney WI said:


> Beeware, I have to ask. Why did everyone go skid loaders? The boom loader seems such a good idea. It seems like it would be lighter to transport and cheaper to buy, maintain, and run.


While the question wasn't addressed to me I can only assume that the biggest problem with them is that they can't load and unload other trucks such as a semi. Also they can be a bit of a problem if there are a lot of overhanging trees at the unloading site or it you are unable to drive right next to where you wish to have your hives sitting. Though I don't own one they look like an excellent tool for some operations that just wish to relocate their hives quite often as in some pollination scenarios. Though they arent as fast as a forklift the biggest advantage is that you arent dragging around a heavy trailer. There have been some good threads on here about them and some real good operations that use them a lot.


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

jim your answer was much more complete than mine. for a sideliner in the right conditions they may be ideal. probably I should not have been so critical. many beekeepers are still using them with success. because I am so frugal (cheap) the last skid loader I bought was reconditioned by myself and useable for $6500. there are so many uses for it now it is a manditory item.


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

Almost all of my hive moving is forklift.
But I can also tell you that I will never, EVER part with my boom truck.
Just way to handy.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/Shallotman/DSC00286.jpg


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

The benefits of Nozevit and Honey-Bee-Healthy are hard to quantize. If your bees are healthy already, will you notice an improvement? They are like Tiger repellent in Wisconsin, have not seen a tiger yet, so it must work, right?

Crazy Roland


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

The first truck I bought. What a lemon. Then all the money I spent trying to fix it. Something else wuld always break or wear out.

Jean-Marc


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>What are some things you wish you never spent money on?

Since I went to bottom board feeders, I wish I had all the money I spend on feeders. I probably won't buy anymore screened bottom boards because they can't be used as a feeder, not because I don't like them, but I'm too cheap to buy feeders. All my feeding is either syrup on the bottom board or dry sugar on newspaper on the top bars in an empty box.

Also inner covers, telescopic covers, deep boxes, ten frame boxes, queen excluders (most of them at least), styrofoam boxes and nucs, imirie shims, ventilation boxes, queen cell protectors, manipulation cloth, frame holder, small smoker, and veil (other than one that zips on a jacket). 

>Why did you decide to try these things and why did you stop?

"Perfection in beekeeping is not found in a multiplicity of appliances, but in simplicity and the elimination of everything not absolutely essential" --Brother Adam, In Search of the Best Bee Strains 

"It's not the daily increase but daily decrease. Hack away at the unessential."--Bruce Lee 

"The master accomplishes more and more by doing less and less until finally he accomplishes everything by doing nothing." --Laozi, Tao Te Ching


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## Ted Kretschmann (Feb 2, 2011)

WE even did away with the feeders, period!! Fill up a fifty five gallon drum with syrup in a yard of sixty colonies. Now this is important--Place OAT straw on top of the syrup as float. It has to be OAT straw, because it is segmented and will not saturate. Hay will sour the drum of Syrup. Place a two by four or large stick across the end of the drum. Place drum lid on so it is ****ed up. Place large stone on lid. Let the bees have it. In two days that syrup is gone. Very few bees drown also because the right type of float was used-OAT STRAW! We can place many a drum of syrup out for the bees in a day. TK


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

One man's garbage is another man's gold.


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## Ted Kretschmann (Feb 2, 2011)

Would that be Ulee's Gold?? TK


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

Really good stuff!
Thanks to everyone.

Roland,
Would you consider running one of your yards without the Tiger repellant?
I dont what to get trapped into doing things every year because they worked once.

Michael,
I almost considered getting a imirie shim a couple scraps of wood gave me the top entrance I wanted to try.
Just spent a hour re-reading your site. 
It's a very good resource.
Thank you


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I almost considered getting a imirie shim a couple scraps of wood gave me the top entrance I wanted to try.

Exactly. I liked the imirie shims for things like banking queens or introducing queens, but they always seem to get broken and then what good are they? Now I always have some shingle shims around and they seldom get broken and if they did, I have more...


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

beeware10 said:


> jim your answer was much more complete than mine. for a sideliner in the right conditions they may be ideal. probably I should not have been so critical. many beekeepers are still using them with success. because I am so frugal (cheap) the last skid loader I bought was reconditioned by myself and useable for $6500. there are so many uses for it now it is a manditory item.


So you would do skidloader (bobcat) over a hummerbee?


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Mbeck asked about my use of Nosevit and HBH . I had said:

If your bees are healthy already, will you notice an improvement? 

We did complete elimination of the above, and use a dose of the above to see if there is a change from their use. 

Crazy Roland


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

What was the result?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Yeah, that's right. HBH and spray bottles. Bought, Never used. Gave to someone who does use them.

I saw no benefit to another beekeepers bees. We both run our bees in similar ways in the same area. He sprayed his, almost every time he went into his hives. I didn't. We had similar production. Our colonies were somewhat similar strength at the end of the season.

Someone would have to show me the actual benefit before I would spend that money and application effort.


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## brac (Sep 30, 2009)

So MB, with your setup as is, with bottom feeder and top entrance, is there any opening at the bottom to promote air flow (summer or winter)?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>So MB, with your setup as is, with bottom feeder and top entrance, is there any opening at the bottom to promote air flow (summer or winter)? 

The screened area where you pour in the syrup lets a little air in. I only want a little.

http://bushfarms.com/images/FeederWithBox.jpg
http://bushfarms.com/beesfeeding.htm#bottom


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

Do you feed HBH or otherwise add a supplement to feeding?


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

I am so cheap I rarely spend money on anything I wish I hadn't. My father in law is the type who buys all the gadgets and he has gotten me to use stuff I never would have if he hadn't bought it first.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

Once upon a time I jumped right in and bought a hundred pollen traps! Knocked a big hole in my honey crop on those colonies and I ended up with a fairly big pile of pollen I could not sell at the time. They rotted in a shed.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Over 500 medium frame feeders. We decided to try running one load of story and a halfs with feeders in the medium. We never really had a good plan for how to run them and came to the conclusion that its a PITA splitting them down in Texas in the spring. A medium particularly with only 7 frames just isnt big enough to hold them for 6 weeks.


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

500 frame feeders and 100 pollen traps! Ouch!
I tend to be impulsive so it's good to hear these stories.
I'm sure you both felt you just hD to have these when you bought them.


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