# Queen cell installation



## Sadler91 (Nov 6, 2011)

How long do you allow your splits to sit before you introduce and mated queen? Same as cells?


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

In a perfect world how many days do you wait to check them for a successful mated queen?

How do you correct the ones that didn't take?
Another cell?
Mated queen?
Stack on queen right hive?

Seems like with your schedule there should be a period with very little capped brood. Is this an intentional move? Do you "knock down" the mites a bit with a treatment during this window?

Thanks for posting


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

Oops


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Mbeck said:


> In a perfect world how many days do you wait to check them for a successful mated queen?
> 
> How do you correct the ones that didn't take?
> Another cell?
> ...


Well there are 2 ways you can go with your check back timeframe. 3 weeks after cell installation is a great window in that the only sealed brood in the hive is going to be some drone brood so it's a great time for an oxalic trickle. The catch is that any "second catch" virgins aren't quite laying yet. If you wait another week you pretty much know for sure whether a hive is queenright but you are going to be looking at a lot of sealed brood and your ideal treatment window has passed. We have been experimenting the last few years with Hopguard 2 on these. The jury is still out on that program. 
The misses we "rebuild" with a frame of open brood sandwiched between 2 frames of sealed brood (all with good queenright bee cover) and another cell. They never catch as well with the queenless bees present but generally we catch on between half and 3/4ths of them. We have switched these in the past but haven't noticed an increase in acceptance rate so we decided it wasn't worth the effort unless the nuc was really short on bees.


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

Treating at this time seems to make perfect sense especially for me here in Florida. Do you see any issues putting a treatment on a relatively new queen? Super cede longevity etc.I suppose it's an issue of lesser of two evils. Treat once while it's effective or harder and more frequently later when they have capped brood,.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Mbeck said:


> Treating at this time seems to make perfect sense especially for me here in Florida. Do you see any issues putting a treatment on a relatively new queen? Super cede longevity etc.I suppose it's an issue of lesser of two evils. Treat once while it's effective or harder and more frequently later when they have capped brood,.


It's something that concerns me and it's the reason I stay away from MAQS or any thymol product while a new queen is just getting started. There is always a danger with Hopguard that you might kill a queen if she gets "slimed" when putting the strip in but I think it's pretty rare if you are doing it blind and totally preventable if you take the time to find the queen. I say that because the percentage of early "flameouts" (hives which were originally considered good matings but turned laying worker within a month or so) is pretty consistent with the years we have chosen not to do a checkback treatment. So if you judge your mite counts are high at all, yes it's probably the lesser of two evils.


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

jim lyon said:


> So if you judge your mite counts are high


or as is the case with nearly every hive in Florida going to be high soon if there isn't a plan.


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## swarm_trapper (Jun 19, 2003)

Jim do you normally feed them as soon as you make them?


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

swarm_trapper said:


> Jim do you normally feed them as soon as you make them?


Funny you should ask. Almost always the answer is yes, because you hate to have to do anything to them for the next three weeks. In this case we felt they were heavy enough and the prospect was pretty good for a flow when the weather warmed. I used to feel that feeding would help your percentage of acceptance but after comparing yards that were fed vs. those that weren't I no longer feel that way. I do think a gentle buildup flow is beneficial to the whole process.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

I thought the purpose of feeding is to get the virgin queen well fed and strong enough to prepare her for the
mating flight. It depends on how the mating nucs are set up to feed them or not.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

I thought the purpose of feeding is to get the virgin queen well fed and strong enough to prepare her for the
mating flight. It depends on how the mating nucs are set up to feed them or not.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

beepro said:


> I thought the purpose of feeding is to get the virgin queen well fed and strong enough to prepare her for the
> mating flight. It depends on how the mating nucs are set up to feed them or not.


If the hive is well fed then the emerging virgin will be well fed. As I stated, when in doubt we err on the side of feeding because we don't want to disrupt them for the next couple of weeks. However if thay have plenty of honey and the immediate prospects of a flow are good then what purpose does supplemental feeding serve?


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

jim lyon said:


> We ignore the fact that, no doubt, many of these hives had no doubt begun raising some of their own cells. This was filmed around the 1st of April in east Texas. A review of my records shows that these particular cells mated at an almost 90% success rate.


Jim, are you checking these at 3 weeks after inserting the cells? How often do you think they decide to continue to raise their own cells?


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

zhiv9 said:


> Jim, are you checking these at 3 weeks after inserting the cells? How often do you think they decide to continue to raise their own cells?


Yes, we shoot for 3 weeks. Even a few days later and they will have significant amounts of capped brood. I've never tried to calculate the percentage that have qc's. Certainly half of them do.


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

jim lyon said:


> I've never tried to calculate the percentage that have qc's. Certainly half of them do.


Thanks, So most of them tear them down after the inserted cell emerges?


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

I presume that's what happens the majority of the time and if there was a problem with the installed cell then you have a good head start on a new one. If you choose to wait another week those would have started laying.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Thanks for posting this. But of course I have a couple of questions...

1 - What do you do with these hives next once they are queen right? Make honey? Just build up for next year? It seems like they are going to miss the southern flows - or will those small hives plus 3 frames worth of emergent brood make a honey crop by May? Edit - After a little thought I'm guessing that you move them to a honey flow around June 1.

2 - How long (maximum) would you leave them queenless and still give them a cell without going through them first? Or does it even matter to you if a queen is from your cell or theirs? Edit - From the previous answer it seems that you probably don't care much if the queen is from your cultured cell or not.

It's always really informative to see how the pros do things - thanks for sharing.


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