# Land Managment for your bees



## Broglea (Jul 2, 2013)

If you were given 5 acres of land to do whatever you could with, how would you manage the land to benefit your bees? How would you manage it and why? 

Would you just plant borage on all 2 acres?

Would you keep a few trees on it for spring nectar and let goldenrod have tis way in the fall?


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## Dave Burrup (Jul 22, 2008)

We have 18 acres, and we have been gradually planting most of it to bee pasture. We have Dutch clover, Crimson clover, Borage, Buckwheat, Bird's Foot Trefoil, Catmint, Alfalfa, Sainfoin, Yellow Sweet Clover, Lots of wildflowers of various kinds, Apples, Apricots, Plums, Pears, European Black Elderberries, and Russian Olive. If anybody had any doubt about my lack of sanity, it is not in question anymore.
Dave


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

1/2 in Brazilian Pepper
1/2 in Chinnese Tallow (popcorn tree)

If I had true control and could rent it out, I would use the $ for gas or sugar.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Grow hay and sell it to someone who has the equipment to mow and bale it. Use the income on your hives. Keep a small plot for your bees and let them find what forage they will.


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## brownbuff75 (Jul 1, 2013)

I would plant stuff in sections so you could have a floral source all the growning year. You can even double up on some things like fruit trees with a yellow clover or a plant that can take some shade for a ground cover. I also like sqkcrk's idea of have a hay field that you can get some income off of and also provied a necter source for most of the season.


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## rhaldridge (Dec 17, 2012)

On our place in the North Country, I'm not planning to do much at all beyond gardening and fruit trees, because it seems pretty much ideal for bees already. We have about 44 acres in all, pretty much evenly divided between deciduous woods, meadow, and beaver swamp. Half of the meadows and the swamp are part of a conservation easement, so all we can do is mow the meadow after the summer birds have been raised. There are literally hundreds of old apple trees, lots of blackberries, crabapples, chokecherries, maples, butternuts, box elders, etc. I might stick some willow twigs down in the swamp. The great thing about the place is that it was once a farm, so has the kind of variety you see on old grown-over farms.

The funny thing is that I made an offer on the property last summer, before I even realized I wanted to have bees. Serendipity, I guess.


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## sky_guy (Jun 25, 2013)

> Grow hay and sell it to someone who has the equipment to mow and bale it. Use the income on your hives. Keep a small plot for your bees and let them find what forage they will.


Agreed. I'm lucky enough to have been given 23 acres to do whatever (agriculturally) I want with. I'm planting it all with sainfoin, then selling the hay after it's done blooming. Sainfoin produces excellent quality hay and, unlike alfalfa, retains most of its nutrients even during its mature stage. Very palatable too. With hay around $200+/ton in my area, and with sainfoin yielding anywhere from 1.5-4 tons per acre, I should have more than enough to support a beekeeping hobby. At least that's the plan.


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## Broglea (Jul 2, 2013)

Good suggestion so far everyone. Thank you.

I posted the question because I had just purchased 2 acres for a really good price at an auction. The problem I have is the 2 acres is 100% wooded. Not really a problem I guess. Over the winter I will be clearing most of the wood and I'm not completely sure what to do with the land once its cleared. The surrounding area next to the 2 acres is hundreds of acres of prairie with a few corn/bean fields close by so there looks to be plenty of forage for the bees.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Well, in that case, I'd clear out a place where I could drive into the trees easily and set up a bee yard and leave the trees there until I had a plan and the where with all to build a house to live in or sell.

Bees fly to work, they don't need you to supply them their source of forage.

Here is something to consider. Bees range somewhere around 3 miles away from home to find what they need. How many acres is that? Two acres are inconsequential in comparison. But I get the impression you are going to spend/invest more money, time, and effort on this idea. You are already emotionally invested. So, do what makes you happy, but don't over expect results beyond reality. Final comment.


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## Broglea (Jul 2, 2013)

sqkcrk - I hear what your saying. I already made the investment in the land based mostly on the surrounding forage so my little 2 acres won't really amount to much for the bees. I understand that. Your hay comment really has me thinking. Brilliant. I guess I can't stop thinking about what other possibilities I have to produce a little extra income. I'm realistic and I don't expect to make a lot. In all reality I will most likely clear enough of it to put 10 hives or so and if that is all I do with it then I'm completely happy.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

What is the wood lot like? Lumber timber or firewood? Are there trees worth keeping for future harvesting as quality wood? Maybe you should get a County or State Forester to come in and advise you on clearing or thinning. I don't know anything about woods in IN. What's it like? What kinds of trees are growing there?


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## Beregondo (Jun 21, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> What is the wood lot like? Lumber timber or firewood? Are there trees worth keeping for future harvesting as quality wood? Maybe you should get a County or State Forester to come in and advise you on clearing or thinning. I don't know anything about woods in IN. What's it like? What kinds of trees are growing there?


Are they nectar producing trees like maple, linden/basswood, catalpa, tulip poplar or locust?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Or popal and osage orange?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I have eighteen acres. I planted:

White Dutch clover
Bird's Foot Trefoil
Alfalfa
Yellow Sweet Clover
White sweet clover
Chicory
Lots of wildflowers of various kinds

I just moved here and haven't had time to plant trees, but my old place (and soon here) I planted:

Apples
Plums
Chokecherries
Pears
Tulip poplar
Willow
Red maple


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## bugmeister (Feb 26, 2013)

Broglea, 

nice problem to have. I cleared 10+ acres of 100 year old wood in Maine 6 years ago, way before bees, then hurricane Irene helped out some more and then I planted what I liked - assortment of apple trees and wildflowers- all cold hardy and native. mother nature took over from there. in Maine every where sun hits berries grow, and then golden rod, then asters. so you can kick off with some nice ground covers and green manure cover crops pretty cheaply and easily and sit back. you will have a paradise before you know it and the bees will find there way. 

sell and burn the wood-its more fun to watch than propane or oil!

BM


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## Broglea (Jul 2, 2013)

Its all hardwood. Some lumber, but mostly firewood I think. Many maples, some oak. I haven't really had a chance to catalog the varying trees yet. I do have a guy coming out to look at the wood. There is probably 500 acres of prairie right next to my property. 10 acres of alfalfa across the road and a 1/4 mile away a farmer planted 2 acres of sunflower. The price was hard to pass up! I drove out there yesterday and couldn't believe the amount of goldenrod and asters in bloom. I can't wait to move the bees out there in the spring. In fact, I will be putting out as many bait hives as I can and grow that bee yard as quick as possible.

You guys have given me a lot to think about.


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## dadux (Feb 23, 2012)

Are you referring to Pipal or Polar? I don't either listed as a major or minor nectar source. Osage Orange either. Does your experience differ?



sqkcrk said:


> Or popal and osage orange?


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## dadux (Feb 23, 2012)

Beregondo said:


> Are they nectar producing trees like maple, linden/basswood, catalpa, tulip poplar or locust?


Are you referring to Black Locust? A neighboring property has 50 acres of Honey locust that I will be putting hives on next year even though they are listed as a minor nectar producer. I look forward to seeing what the production will be.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

dadux said:


> Are you referring to Pipal or Polar? I don't either listed as a major or minor nectar source. Osage Orange either. Does your experience differ?


I remember osage orange in Iowa when I was young. Some folks call it hedge. It does not produce an orange like ones you eat.

I was trying to think of a softwood deciduous tree that might grow in IN when I asked about Popal, a relative of tulip poplar I believe.

Neither are nectar producers as far as I know.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Tulip poplar is a very good nectar source. Lombardy poplar is not, but it makes a lot of propolis as does cottonwood, aspen and all the rest of the poplar family. Black locust is a big honey producer. Honey locust, oddly enough, is not.


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## wengeasley (Jun 25, 2013)

linden poplar and fruit trees...borage and clover goldenrod and asters


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## larrybeach (May 25, 2013)

My bees seem to like clover, so I probably would plant some white dutch, sweet yellow and crimson clovers. Because I like the way it looks and it has a fairly long booming cycle, I would plant some borage also.


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## Waggle (Mar 7, 2013)

Tulip poplar is a very good source of nectar here. It is our largest spring flow and produces very good honey.


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## UTvolshype (Nov 26, 2012)

Mustard, very early pollen and nectar source.


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## jtow (Mar 30, 2011)

Michael Bush said:


> Tulip poplar is a very good nectar source. Lombardy poplar is not, but it makes a lot of propolis as does cottonwood, aspen and all the rest of the poplar family. Black locust is a big honey producer. Honey locust, oddly enough, is not.


How did the Tulip Poplar do on your previous land? Planted 3 in NE Oklahoma, couldn't keep any of them alive.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>How did the Tulip Poplar do on your previous land? Planted 3 in NE Oklahoma, couldn't keep any of them alive. 

I have clay soil (as most of Oklahoma does as well). On the advice of someone smarter about such things as me, I dug a hole like 3' wide and 3' deep and filled it with a mixture of purchased top soil, potting soil and shredded pine bark. Then I had to water consistently for the first couple of years. They are doing very well.


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## smccabe (Oct 8, 2013)

Your forest patch will have its own group of flowering plants - those will supplement the wild flowers and crops on your neighbors land. Here in TX I have blackberry (late spring) wild grape (early summer) and trumpet vine (mid and late-summer) in my woodlot - certainly you will have other species. I have the bees on the northeast side of the trees, so they get shade at in the afternoon, and can go either into the woods or on the meadow.

The plants in the woods may also have some protection from drought. Also, the brush would make a good wind break for the hives in winter.


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## wyatt (Jan 23, 2005)

*Organic matter cover cropping and bee forage*

I'm trying to build up the organic material in my soil and generally improve its fertility while providing as much bee forage as possible. Any suggestion? I assume probably sweet clover or a mix of clover, probably ryegrass, its clay and could use some breaking up so maybe forage radish in some qty, I want to get as much biomass as possible so I'll be cutting it and removing material to composts piles so I don't think Sainfoin would be a good choice. I don't have much experience with Sainfoin but Dadant calls it a multi cropped legume while other sources say it is a once a year harvest crop, seeming contradictions. I also have about 12 acres I could plant some more perinieal forage and though that's of secondary importance at the moment I'd be interested in suggestion about that as well. FYI I'm in SW Ohio.

Anybody have any experience with different Basswood Tree types? I keep hearing about bee bee trees but they are considered an invasive species in a number of states including here so I intend to stay away from them.

Wyatt


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## Beregondo (Jun 21, 2011)

*Re: Organic matter cover cropping and bee forage*

I've used rye/clover planted in November and incorporated after seed heads form on the rye (prevents grow-back...cut before the seed is viable) with success to both choke weeds and build organic matter in upstate NY.
The tilth improvement was huge.

Getting multiple crops with a particular species (and how many cycles) will depend a lot on location/ growing season length.


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