# Some Science related to Beehive Colour



## Kidbeeyoz (May 8, 2013)

Newbees, and for that matter some oldbees, seem to want to paint their hives a kaleidoscope of colours simply "because they can".

You may not be aware, but research done by (Kleinschmidt 1972) shows there is a lot of science associated with hive colour.

It influences such things as:

> Honey production -hive colour can reduce honey production
>Honey sugar content
> Hive microclimate
>Saturation deficit within the hive

White, the traditional hive colour has been tried and tested over a long time and is the coolest in summer and warmest in winter. White hives in shade, consume less honey than other colours due to the bees effort to maintain hive temperature during hot conditions.

In Australia, aluminium painted hives require less maintenance and are more fireproof in bushfires than white hives.

White is more suited to hot climates because other colours can increase hive temperature upwards of 5 degrees C ( 41 degrees F). 

So in summer, when you are in airconditioned comfort, your bees are working overtime with the stress of trying to cool their hive and consuming your honey as well.

Under climatic conditions of high humidity, ventilated lids are recommended.

So beware- don't get too "Wacko Jacko" with your choice of hive colours.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Very interesting Kidbeeoz. Do you have a link to the study?


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## GLOCK (Dec 29, 2009)

Wonder what everyone thinks of black hives?

I run black nucs and black hives I have a few different colors but from this point on they will be all black.
Seems like the bees like them all my black hives are strong and made honey and my nucs are doing great this year so I don't know if its the color or the beekeeper but black works for me.


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## Rusty Hills Farm (Mar 24, 2010)

Sorry, but I am not convinced. There is less drift when the hives are different colors or have different markings. And the study mentioned is 42 years old (i.e. older than a lot of the posters on here!) Surely we have learned a lot more about heat vs color since then.

JMO

Rusty


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## KPeacock (Jan 29, 2013)

Kidbeeyoz said:


> Newbees, and for that matter some oldbees, seem to want to paint their hives a kaleidoscope of colours simply "because they can".
> 
> In Australia, aluminium painted hives require less maintenance and are more fireproof in bushfires than white hives.
> 
> White is more suited to hot climates because other colours can increase hive temperature upwards of 5 degrees C ( 41 degrees F).


I suspect that the color of the hive won;t do much to keep my bees alive should a fire envelop the area. Furthermore, 5deg Celcius is analogous to 41deg on the Fahrenheight scale, but a DIFFERENCE of 5deg C is only 9deg Fahrenheit. As stated, thats an error of 456%. If this is the attention to detail we can expect from this entire study, I'll just mentally classify it as "more bee information that is not significant"


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## JStinson (Mar 30, 2013)

Different hive colors also help out the queen on her mating flight. If you have a row of 5 white hives, double deeps with 2 medium supers, the queen will fly out of one and then scratch her head when she returns. Besides, mistinted paint is only 5 bucks a gallon at Lowes...

I remember reading the Rev. Langstroth's book where he talked about "those ignorant beekeepers" keeping bees in old dilapidated boxes having higher successful queen mating rates than those with homologous hives.


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## gone2seed (Sep 18, 2011)

Kidbeeyoz said:


> White, the traditional hive colour has been tried and tested over a long time and is the coolest in summer and warmest in winter.


Warmest in winter????


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## Kamon A. Reynolds (Apr 15, 2012)

there is something to it even if it is splitting hairs with some colors.

I have had dark colored hives meltdown and lose a lot of honey.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Warmest in winter???? 

Yea, that's what I was thinking. Maybe at night. White will LOSE less heat, but in the daytime in the sun it will GAIN less heat as well...


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## Gino45 (Apr 6, 2012)

White paint is good, aluminum is also, but I prefer pastel 'oops' paint for financial reasons.

Now GLOCK, how about a picture of those hives as they look TODAY? That would be a fun comparison with the excellent photos you have posted.


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## homesteader824 (Jun 9, 2012)

Michael Bush said:


> >Warmest in winter????
> 
> Maybe at night. White will LOSE less heat, but in the daytime in the sun it will GAIN less heat as well...


Could you please explain the physics of white losing less heat at night? Is it reflecting the infrared back into the hive?

I paint all my hives white. Since white reflects all wavelengths of light, it would be the coolest in that it is reflecting more sunlight than any other color. I do understand it could contribute to drift. I have actually heard of beekeepers painting symbols or color coded marks on the fronts of their hives to decrease drifting. I have something a little different on each of the tops of my hives to hold the covers down--one's a brick, the others are different looking rocks. I wonder if that helps them identify their hive from the others?

I would worry more about cooling the hive than heating it. In summer, they are trying to cool the whole hive, while in winter, of course, they only heat the cluster.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Could you please explain the physics of white losing less heat at night? Is it reflecting the infrared back into the hive?

It's why starters and radiators are painted black. Black dissipates heat faster. White slower. Chrysler once made some nice shiny looking starters and they burned out quickly. They went back to black.


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## melliferal (Aug 30, 2010)

Michael Bush said:


> >Could you please explain the physics of white losing less heat at night? Is it reflecting the infrared back into the hive?
> 
> It's why starters and radiators are painted black. Black dissipates heat faster. White slower. Chrysler once made some nice shiny looking starters and they burned out quickly. They went back to black.


Hmmm...I'm not sure if that's completely accurate, Mr. Bush. You're right that starters do have black paint on them, and I do reckon it's because black is the coolest (temp wise) color when you've absolutely GOT to use paint, but it's my understanding that starters are painted primarily to help discourage arcing between the battery connection on the solenoid and the grounded body of the starter. It seems to me that a painted surface of _any_ color dissipates heat slower than an unpainted metal surface that can directly radiate heat without any obstruction. I believe that's one of the reasons that modern engines and parts aside from starters aren't painted at all (they used to be painted - every make had a "proprietary engine color" even - but now it's just plain old bare metal all around). I've replaced a few radiators in a few vehicles and I'm pretty sure the actual finned surfaces are always bare and unpainted metal.


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## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

No, painting is actually used to dissipate heat. (AC Delco Enginneer for 8 years) no particular color issue with heat, more of a cost/quality issue. (white hard to keep clean) Unpainted surfaces oxidize rapidly and that causes heat retention.

My question for this survey is based on what outside temp...???


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## GLOCK (Dec 29, 2009)

Gino45 said:


> Now GLOCK, how about a picture of those hives as they look TODAY? That would be a fun comparison with the excellent photos you have posted.


I don't get what you mean :scratch: they look the same just wraped in black  


All my black hives I used stain to paint should look good for years plus I'll keep them in good shape I love my bee yards.
I don't really know if it's any better then white or any other color but all my black hives do well and I like black.


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## Dominic (Jul 12, 2013)

Rusty Hills Farm said:


> Sorry, but I am not convinced. There is less drift when the hives are different colors or have different markings. And the study mentioned is 42 years old (i.e. older than a lot of the posters on here!) Surely we have learned a lot more about heat vs color since then.
> 
> JMO
> 
> Rusty


Indeed. Drifting can result in some hives developing too slowly, while others growing too quickly, catching us off-guard and swarming. I also tend to see it as a vector of disease. My supers are in 4 different colors, and I painted symbols on the bottom super of each hive last season, while assembling them all in unique color combinations. I doubt any color is perfect. There are drawbacks to white, there are drawbacks to black, and I'm sure any other color has its drawbacks as well. I figure mixes probably average them out.

And while it was the least of my concerns, people keep telling me the color mixes are pretty.


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## melliferal (Aug 30, 2010)

gmcharlie said:


> No, painting is actually used to dissipate heat. (AC Delco Enginneer for 8 years) no particular color issue with heat, more of a cost/quality issue. (white hard to keep clean) Unpainted surfaces oxidize rapidly and that causes heat retention.


Are you _implying_ that my understanding is _wrong_, sir????

I hate it when that happens. Now I have to admit that Michael Bush was completely right!

Thanks for the insight, however.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

It is not easy to find _non-physicist_  (but still have _reasonable _credibility) online sites that explain the mechanism of how paint color affects heat _radiated from _an object such as a hive body. Stefan-Boltzmann Law seems to cover this issue, but the explanation is full of formulae and studying it is over _my _interest level. 

However, a site that offers discussion of Leslie's Cube puts it quite succinctly:


> 1. Heat radiation travels through air
> 2. It travels at the same speed as light
> 3. It will not travel through glass
> 4. [HIGHLIGHT]Black surfaces are the best emitters of heat radiation[/HIGHLIGHT]
> ...


As far as I can tell, the same mechanism that makes white paint reflect heat better than black paint from a hive body, also has the same effect when heat is radiating _from _that same hive body, that is white hive bodies radiate heat more slowly than black hive bodies.


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## Kidbeeyoz (May 8, 2013)

Oldtimer- it was a research paper delivered at the 1st Australian Bee Congress in 1970's. He was an esteemed scientist in this country. He wrote quite profusely on a range of beekeeping matters. He did not sit in an office polishing a chair like a lot of others but was actively involved in field research. Can't locate the research he did on a range of hive colours but have it somewhere; must look harder. In the paper mentioned, he studied aluminium and white hives only but it covered a range of lids and bottom boards as well. I have a copy of the paper and if you are interested enough you could pm. me and I could post you a copy.

The white hive being warmer in winter was something I added myself as I have read it in my library of beekeeping literature. Will chase it up to see where I read it. Saying that I could not figure it out why black was not warmer in winter. I am glad it got raised on this thread as I was unaware it emitted heat faster when the sun went down.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Thanks, but first. If it was delivered at the Bee Congress then I assume it's public property no copyright issues you could copy & paste to this thread so all could read?


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## Kidbeeyoz (May 8, 2013)

Oldtimer said:


> Thanks, but first. If it was delivered at the Bee Congress then I assume it's public property no copyright issues you could copy & paste to this thread so all could read?


I have it in book form only. I seem to be able to do individual page scans on my printer but not able to scan multiple pages into one document. If someone can tell me how to do it I could try.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Ah, may be asking a bit much for you to go through all that.


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## Kidbeeyoz (May 8, 2013)

KPeacock said:


> I suspect that the color of the hive won;t do much to keep my bees alive should a fire envelop the area. Furthermore, 5deg Celcius is analogous to 41deg on the Fahrenheight scale, but a DIFFERENCE of 5deg C is only 9deg Fahrenheit. As stated, thats an error of 456%. If this is the attention to detail we can expect from this entire study, I'll just mentally classify it as "more bee information that is not significant"


Sorry mate! I did the conversion on an internet conversion site and obviously got it wrong. Unfortunately, this country decided to change our currency, weight, temperature and volumes some time ago. To the northern hemisphere degrees C would have meant little.

Temperature increases are something that can push things over the edge. I am also a stingless bee keeper as well and on this day last week we had a scorcher. Lots of colonies in my region were lost because the temperature tipped their ability to maintain hive temperature.

If you are facing and on the brink of a cliff edge and take one more step (it's only another 2 feet) you know what happens. So everything has a threshhold.


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