# What's the most useful ..table saw or router table



## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

I have a router but don't use it for building woodenware. But, to me, whether a router is needed depends on your tablesaw dado capability. If you can't easily make consistent dados (up to the thickness of your wood, 3/4" in my case) on your tablesaw, then a router can substitute for the tablesaw dado feature.


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## HoneybeesinJapan (Apr 19, 2012)

Dado blades are so expensive here and this is one reason why I'm leaning towards a router.


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## Ddawg (Feb 17, 2012)

I use a table saw exclusively. Make your life easy and make sure the arbor on the table saw you buy can handle a 3/4" dado. Most newer saws in the $300/400 range the arbor will only handle a 1/2" dado. Your older Craftsman 113 series table saws are great work horses and can be found pretty cheap, and they will probably outlast the newer ones. I picked up a excellent condition Cman 113 series with full cast iron table and wings, 3hp belt drive motor, with a solid XR2424 rip fence for $100 at a garage sale. Then I picked up another decent Cman 113 but not nearly as nice as the first one for $50.


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## Ddawg (Feb 17, 2012)

Oops, didn't realize you were in Japan inch:


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## ralittlefield (Apr 25, 2011)

Personally, I would go with the dado blade.

Routers make a nice clean cut, but typically a good stack dado blade will come with various thickness shims and chipper blades that will help you match the thickness of lumber that goes into the dado. If you already have a saw that will accept a dado blade, that may be less expensive than a router, router table, and an assortment of router bits.


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

A router and table will work fine to make box joints and cut frame rests. Don't think I'd use one for anything else, but if a dado blade is very expensive and you have the room, I'd get the router. You will have to make a jig to match the width of the cutter exactly to get good box joints, but you have to do that anyway with a dado, you just have the ability to tinker with the fix more with the dado. Or screw it up if you don't clean the blades properly every time, as I did recently.

Do spend the extra and get a very simple, very robust router -- I'm thinking of the one I have, the very basic Porter Cable, I think -- NOT a plunge router, just a motor, base with simple rack an pinion height adjustment, I think 1.5 hp. You will be using it quite a bit doing hard work, one of the hobby ones will burn out. Mine ran several hundred feet of trim with a fairly large bit without even getting warm, my buddies had to be shut off at half that amount to cool down....

Peter


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## Munson (Mar 16, 2014)

I only used a router to cut handles for the six hives I made last year. All else my old old craftsman table saw, decent dado blade and iBox from incra. Depending on the design of your boxes, you will use the heck out of a dado blade. The simplest use cutting slots on the base, inner cover, slatted rack. I did also buy a very nice miter saw to speed up cutting everything to size. 
I purchased my first hive from a guy on e-bay called dux4life. He makes his woodware in lots of 100. Nice guy. He uses a mid size router and PC dovetail jig to cut half blind dovetail joints for all his boxes. Perfect boxes, nice woodworking, good craftsmanship.


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## Eikel (Mar 12, 2014)

I'm assuming space is another consideration in Japan. Because I do enough woodworking I added a quality fence system with a 54 inch extension and mounted my router in the extension table. It's a great set up but likely overkill for your needs and space. If you're only going to be making beekeeping woodware, I'd ask how much are you planning on making? Assuming it will only be a couple of hives a year I'd consider a few small scale options; if it's numerous pieces of woodware and/or a broad spectrum of woodworking projects, I'd go with making an investment option to avoid "rebuying" later.

If you're only making a few pieces of woodware I'd consider the following and weigh your options:

1. use alternative joints rather than box joints, may require a little chiseling or gluing scrap in any "through cuts"
2. buy a good dado blade and make a box joint sled for your table saw (PM me an email address and I'll forward some instructions/pictures on how I make mine)
3. if you have a means to clamp a jig to a table, consider the router and a box joint and/or dovetail jig. (nothing says you can't dove tail boxes, all depends on the other stuff you plan on making) A second consideration is the size of the router, could mean smaller bits and more passes.
4. go with the router and table but remember you'll still need to make or buy a jig to cut box joints

With some adaptations, you can meet all of your needs with basic tools but I would recommend you go with quality products (doesn't mean the most expensive). I have found the cheap stuff to be frustrating, creates an opportunity to hurt yourself and will need to be "rebought" later.

Just my $.02


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

A table saw is by far the more useful tool. You can make perfectly servicable bee hives with only a table saw - without a dado - but you can't really do that with only a router table.

As an aside, I have a router mounted in my table saw table . Saves space and makes double duty of my nice table saw fence.

One other point - a small shaper with a router bit adapter is 10 times better than a router table.


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## flyin-lowe (May 15, 2014)

I added an entry level router to my collection last year and am glad I did. I had a dado blade for my table saw but my saw is smaller so I can't get a stack quite wide enough to make the rests and butt joints in one pass. I was running everything once then moving my fence a 1/4 inch then cutting again. Plus I got tired of switching the blades. So now I set up a little assembly line. I have a radial arm saw I cut everything to length with. Then take them to the table saw to rip the height and then to the router table to make my rests and butt joints. The plans I had the butt joint and the frame rest is the same dimension. So I just run three edges of each end piece through the router and they are all done. I do use my dado to cut hand holds. Part of my issue is I have low end table saw and low end dado blade so my router cuts are more accurate then my dado set up was. One of these days I would love to upgrade to a nicer table saw but 99% of the woodworking I do is bee boxes, bird houses, etc so I get buy with the cheap one.


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## AAIndigo (Jun 14, 2015)

Table saw and dado blade are best by far when making boxes. More power. I never break out the router (well I did when I forgot the frame rest) but I do have a shaper for my joints. No dovetails for me. 

I use a locking miter joint. You can purchase this for your router as well. Get a 1/2 router. You can fabricate a table or purchase one.


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## hex0rz (Jan 14, 2014)

What do you want to actually use the table saw or router for? Cutting lumber? Making frames?

If your making frames, you need a router. If your making boxes, and other things that need ripping, etc, then a table saw. Like everyone else says, a good dado set is good. You can use them to make rabbets, finger joints, or frame rests, etc. Using a router to make equipment besides frames would waste too much wood.


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## HoneybeesinJapan (Apr 19, 2012)

Thanks for all the great info. I have a table saw and I think the best plan is to spend the money I would have spent on a router and table on a good dado set and maybe a higher end incra fence. Thanks everyone for the advice.


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

HoneybeesinJapan said:


> I've been thinking that I need to add a router table to my beekeeping wood working shop. Is it worth buying a router and router table or can I just get buy with my table saw?


Get a dado blade and move on. I have routers and do not use them for beekeeping equipment.


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

I made up 2 custom router tables with 4 routers each for making notches in frames. I like it better than the saw for that purpose. Opposing notches are always the correct distance apart, the correct width, and correct location. One is set up for the top bar of the frame, the other is set up for the side bars. I wear ear plugs and gun mufflers, and it still hurts. inch:

Everything else is done on the table saws.


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## Colobee (May 15, 2014)

A table saw is capable of building most bee equipment. A second (old) table saw comes in handy as a dedicated dado saw. The router table is handy, if you have one, but can only reasonably do so much.


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

I have a couple table saws and dados.I only use the table saw to make boxes.I lay my boards flat and cut the depth then when all are cut I turn up on edge and cut out the side and top strips.Fast and easy.


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## flyin-lowe (May 15, 2014)

I had a cheap dado blade for my table saw. For the price of a decent one I get the used router table with router. I got tired of taking the blades on and off of the table saw. It only takes a minute but it was getting old. Now I assembly line mine. I have my radial arm saw to cut all my lengths. Then I take them all to the table saw and set up the widths. The end joints and frame rests are the same dimension so I then take all of my end pieces to the router table and run three edges through. The top acts as the frame rest and the other to are for the joints. Since I had a cheaper dado set I found my router cuts much cleaner and smoother edges so it is a no brainer for me. You can definitely get by without the router but if you can find one cheap I think it is worth it.


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

If the router is for "bee related" building. what did you plan to use it for?
I have been building my own hives for several years.
A table saw is a must. I do not have a router. I have a thickness planner but I use rough sawn materials.
Pin Nailer or staple gun is nice, as well a drill and screw gun (Battery model)

If funds are an issue, I would look up a pawn shop , frequented by "carpenters" 
usable used hardware can be had there to start with.

good luck
welcome to the site

GG


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

For building boxes the rabetted joint is perfectly functional and needs no jigs. Table saw is by far the most versatile. If you were going to make a lot of frames the router would be an asset but the small rabbets can easily be done with the table saw. If you can only afford one tool now, buy the table saw first. In the older posts it has been mentioned that most table saws today do not have shaft length to accommodate stacked dado blades. If you shop around you can buy older saws under a hundred dollars that are capable. I have a modern one and an old dog! nice to have both to use when doing a production run. In much of EU stacked dados are not sold for safety reasons. Similarly for radial arm saws and they can be picked up cheap used.


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## JustBees (Sep 7, 2021)

David LaFerney said:


> A table saw is by far the more useful tool. You can make perfectly servicable bee hives with only a table saw - without a dado - but you can't really do that with only a router table.
> 
> As an aside, I have a router mounted in my table saw table . Saves space and makes double duty of my nice table saw fence.
> 
> One other point - a small shaper with a router bit adapter is 10 times better than a router table.


+10 +10

One extension wing for my table saw has a router mount in it. But I've never used it.
But a router doesn't get used much.
A Dado blade makes most of those cuts for me.
The only time I use a router for rabbiting is when I can't use a dado.
And in those situations it is used hand held as the table is in the way.
In the end you will likely need both. 
Another thing is a dado makes straight cuts, it's going to be much more difficult to get something to slide in a routed rabbit. 
(like when splitting 10 frame boxes into double 4 frames)

I understand the safety nazi's concern with dado blades, it's a mean and big blade spinning in your face.
BUT It is the operator not the blade that is the safety problem.

I can wreck more stuff with a hand held router than a table saw.....


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## JustBees (Sep 7, 2021)

Gray Goose said:


> If the router is for "bee related" building. what did you plan to use it for?
> I have been building my own hives for several years.
> A table saw is a must. I do not have a router. I have a thickness planner but I use rough sawn materials.
> Pin Nailer or staple gun is nice, as well a drill and screw gun (Battery model)
> ...


Another thing is the Pawn Shop can be negotiated with.
The owner may like honey! Better yet may want to help you sell honey!


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## jtgoral (Mar 24, 2018)

*I would say table saw is a must and router is optional.* On the picture below I have rabbet on all 4 walls made with the router. Table saw is good for 2 walls rabbet. In my case I can use regular deep Lang frames or take a standard Lang deep plastic foundation, rotate 90 deg and hang vertically in two deep boxes using rabbets on long walls. Having narrow and tall comb has some positives when wintering in cold climates. Those are 6 frame boxes, and the short inside is 9.25 inches wide. In the narrow-toll configuration those would be 12 frame boxes.


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## JConnolly (Feb 21, 2015)

(note, this is an old thread but with a new request for suggestions)

As has been said, you can do all of your joinery with a table saw. However, I use a table saw to rip to width, then I have two story sticks, one is 20-7/8" long for side length and one 16-1/4" long for end length that I use to clamp stops on a compound miter saw. For the box joints I use this stupid simple jig and a hand held battery powered trim router to cut perfect box joints plus clip the frame rest finger.









This finger joint jig is stupid simple for bee boxes.


This weeks episode of Woodsmith shop featured a finger joint jig for a router. (Check your local PBS station listing) It will be simple to make one of these and set it up for fool proof bee box finger joints with a 5/8 spacer and 3/4 spacers. Free Plans...




www.beesource.com





The dedicated box joint jig for bee boxes and story sticks have made set up so easy so that I no longer build large numbers of boxes at once. I build boxes on demand now. I can build a single box or two and have them glued and ready for paint in just a few minutes.


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

I just do a few at a time as well.
not more than 10 6 ish is common.
once the table saw is set 2 or 4 or 8 or 10 pieces is not much different.

hate painting just 1 box as well so a few make a better flow.

went back to the old thread @JConnolly nice router idea, I have a 110 volt router would do that easy.

GG


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## jtgoral (Mar 24, 2018)

Gray Goose said:


> ...
> hate painting just 1 box as well so a few make a better flow.
> ...
> 
> GG


I started dipping in ECO Wood Treatment. I keep it dissolved in a plastic growler container from 32lb LME I used in my other hobby. To dip the box I need a container which is just bigger than biggest box wall and 1" of ECO in it. It takes couple minutes to paint one box only. The more boxes you paint the less time per box it takes


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

Yup, an old thread alright. Since way back then, I'm setting up to build larger beehives - the Brother Adam hive, a.k.a. the Modified Square Jumbo Dadant beehive. So I am working on yet another router table - one for a high-power router with a 1/2 inch spindle to run a finger glue joint bit and possibly a lockmiter joint bit. Making beehives that are 13-1/2 inches tall requires pretty accurate joinery, splicing 2 or 3 pieces of wood into a panel. Finger glue joint along the edges with dowels

I bought an old Hitachi router with a 3 horsepower motor and a 1/2 inch collet. It runs at 22,000 RPM. 

The bits say the speed limit is 18,000 RPM, so I am buying a speed controller. It turns out that a variable AC transformer (a.k.a. "variac") will allow me to reduce the speed, but the power drops down, too, causing the large bits to bog down considerably. Apparently a VFD-based speed controller allows the speed to be reduced with less power reduction.

I have been waiting for Harbor Freight to actually stock one, but I see that Grainger sells a variety of them (for quite a bit more) in several different power capacities. I hope to have it going next week.


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## jtgoral (Mar 24, 2018)

I've built a lot of furniture with dovetail joints using the router. For beehive boxes I always used a dado and the simple jig. Once you have a jig for the table saw and a dado there is practically no setup time after you make first side of finger cuts on the board. You just cut and cut and cut.....


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## G3farms (Jun 13, 2009)

I bought one of these several years ago, works like a charm. Got it second hand at a real bargain. Older fella bought it and was not the type that understood about fine adjustment and got tired of fiddling with it. Brought it home, got it set up and cutting finger joints in no time. Had to buy a saw dust collector to go with it, it makes a pile of chips in no time.









Custom made box joint cutter


This machine will cut all your different sized boxes. The cutters are carbide inserts that you just unbolt and replace no need to have anything sharpened. Runs on a 3hp 220v single phase Leeson motor. We offer 3 standard style cuts please see pictures. Cost of machine is $3800 Thank you John...




www.beesource.com





As for a table saw, I got my Dads old craftsman, found some extensions for it on ebay, did a little tune up and added a 1 1/2 hp motor, does a very good job for my needs. May be 60 to 70 years old. Bought a newer one at a yard sale for $100 and leave it set up to run dados for the frame rest. Both have cast iron tables and the original fences, good work horses and used parts are readily available on ebay.


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## little_john (Aug 4, 2014)

Table-Saw or Table-Router ? 

I normally use a table-router extensively, both for making boxes and their frames, but after reading through this thread I decided to make the next box (actually a depth extension for an existing box) using my table-saw as much as possible. But, after running some selected pallet-wood stringers across the table-saw to clean-up their edges prior to gluing, I'm less than happy with the surface - as there are so many saw marks present.

However, I guessed that this rough finish would actually provide a better 'key' for wood glue - so I did a quick Google to check. Hmmm - was I wrong ...



> Our work has shown that *a smooth surface will always have higher strength than a rough surface.* Best Wood Glue Surface, Smooth or Rough? | Popular Woodworking





> *Smooth even surfaces* produced on planers and joiners with sharp knives and correct feed adjustments *are the best surfaces for gluing solid wood*. Preparation of Wood for Gluing


When I came to remove the fixed floor from the hive I'm currently in the process of extending, I found that the glue line was so strong that I had to actually destroy the floor in order to remove it, and quite a lot of the floor stubbornly remained attached - which I found could only be removed by the use of a sledge-router. Seems I've been gluing in the best possible way all along. 

So - for me it's Table-Router first, and Table-Saw second - but I wouldn't be without either of them.
LJ


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## tbishop (Feb 28, 2012)

A Craftsman 10" table saw is hard to beat. However, if you are able to access a Harbor Freight store, they have a 10" Hercules brand saw. Compact, does not bog down and comes with a fence that is unbeatable.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I used a router once to cut the frame rest rabbet... Back when I didn't have a table saw.


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## jtgoral (Mar 24, 2018)

tarksur said:


> Routers make a nice clean cut, but typically a good stack dado blade will come with various thickness shims and chipper blades that will help you match the thickness of lumber that goes into the dado.


It is nice to have a table saw and a router. In that order. A saw is mandatory, the router is not unless you are making furniture, too. Today a poly brood box is cheaper then the wood to make one wooden box and it is already insulated. So maybe it is better to buy a poly, save some money on a saw and read a good book instead of making wooden boxes? I overwinter insulated hives in Chicago area on 30-40lb of honey/sugar. I save money using insulated hives over and over again.


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