# How can I eradicate honey bees from the recesses of a banyan tree trunk?



## johansenka (Mar 21, 2014)

I have a friend who has a colony of bees take up lodging in the recesses of a large banyan tree here in Southern Florida. The tree is too old and valuable to start hacking or sawing into it to remove the hive and there are multiple entries for the bees to come and go. The aim is to simply euthanize the bees. What is the best way to accomplish this task. The bees are not africanized and the hive is still relatively small given the time they have been there. I have been advised that soapy water will drown them. Thank you for your feedback.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Why do you want to do this? Resmethrin spray is what we used to use to kill honeybees in an AFB infected hive.


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## Margot1d (Jun 23, 2012)

You must be joking right? This is a beekeeping forum. Why would anyone give you advice on how to kill honey bees?


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## stavros (Feb 26, 2008)

Well said Margot1d.


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## RiodeLobo (Oct 11, 2010)

Perhaps you could find a local beekeeping club and ask about a trap out. Than seal up the entrances.


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## brettj777 (Feb 27, 2013)

Sometimes it might be necessary or more cost effective to eliminate a colony that has moved in somewhere unacceptable. We are we to judge that. Yes we are about keeping bees but sometimes that means doing the hard things too.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

My comments/questions would be...

Are the bees posing a problem for man or beast? Are they up high in the tree or down low?...with many entrances I would think they're up high. Does anyone have a garden or fruit trees close to the colony?...they will definitely benefit from the colony's pollination. If this is a new colony of bees it most likely means that it was a swarm that was a product of another colony that is relatively close...personally (understand that I'm a beekeeper) I would be tickled to have a bee tree in my yard.

It goes without saying that honey bees are good to have around.<duh> Feral European honey bees are really nice (if they're truly feral and just not a fresh swarm from somebody's hive) being as they are "survivors" and are dealing (without man's intervention) with the pests and disease that are attacking bees everywhere...their donation to the gene pool would definitely be positive. But, they *can* be in the wrong place and *can* pose a threat to people. I would *really* consider leaving these bees alone, but you have to be the judge of that.

Btw, if later on you happen to walk out and the air is filled with bees and you hear a very loud bee buzz going on, just wait 5-10 minutes and the drama should be over with. That will simply be a swarm being issued from the colony...swarming bees (relatively speaking) are very gentle though will still sting if stepped on, tangled in your hair, caught in your shirt collar, etc.,. The swarming bees will eventually land on a limb or lamppost, or collard plant, or something...and begin to form a large clump of bees that will hang there for a while. Beekeepers are happy to come remove these for people. As for removing the bees live from the tree...a "trap out" is possible, but rather involved and does take a while...but the bees would live. 

It's your call on the bees. If they're euthanized someone will lose something very beneficial to their environment and ecosystem...but, if they're in a place that is a hazard for people and pets then it's your or your friend's call on what to do with them. As a note, killing the bees inside of the tree will leave a rotting mound of bees, possibly gallons of fermenting honey along with all the nice bugs that will move in behind the bees. Think of it like this...if there are 5 pounds of bees (easily could be that or multiples of that) and you kill them in the tree that would be equivalent to a 5+ pound dead dog hanging inside the treeinch:...just sayin'....

Best wishes,
Ed


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## Will O'Brien (Feb 22, 2006)

Intheswamp said:


> My comments/questions would be...
> 
> 
> It's your call on the bees. If they're euthanized someone will lose something very beneficial to their environment and ecosystem...but, if they're in a place that is a hazard for people and pets then it's your or your friend's call on what to do with them. As a note, killing the bees inside of the tree will leave a rotting mound of bees, possibly gallons of fermenting honey along with all the nice bugs that will move in behind the bees. Think of it like this...if there are 5 pounds of bees (easily could be that or multiples of that) and you kill them in the tree that would be equivalent to a 5+ pound dead dog hanging inside the treeinch:...just sayin'....
> ...


That is a great post over all Ed. The final comments provided great perspective.

I hope that the bees live but agree that there are a few times when they should be removed.


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## tommysnare (Jan 30, 2013)

how do we 'euthanize' a human who has taken up residence next to our hive ? call pest control and see how fast they refer you to a beekeeper to save the bees. 

feel free to enjoy ur food this year and not think about all the work that went into getting it to ur supermarket....by ur PESTS !


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

If it's absolutely necessary (I would leave them, but I've had bees in my backyard for 40 years often with 40 or so hives and a couple of hundred mating nucs) it would be best for the surrounding bees if you use something that won't poison them when they rob out the existing hive. Sulfur is the traditional smoke used to kill bees. Soapy water can work. I've heard of people using fertilizer but that sounds scary as it can be pretty flammable (as can sulfur).


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## G3farms (Jun 13, 2009)

On the flip side of things, you have a big OLD tree that has a hollow in it big enough for bees to want to make a home in, and has many holes in it. Sounds like the tree is short lived anyway, and hopefully not close to a structure.


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## txbeek (May 21, 2013)

I wonder if the antifungal properties of honey and propolis might actually save the tree from invading insects and rot expanding the problem. I have seen some really old bee trees going strong, with trees the same size nearby rotting on the ground from collapse. Would be an interesting study. 

TxBeek


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## Edymnion (May 30, 2013)

Not to mention the fact that unless the community is willing to deface the tree by sealing it up, killing the bees is only a short term answer. Its only a matter of time until some other swarm moves in and starts it all over again.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

johansenka said:


> I have a friend who has a colony of bees take up lodging in the recesses of a large banyan tree here in Southern Florida.


That is going to be tough to do because of the structure of the tree. One thing you might try doing is spray the tree with water constantly. A fine soaking spray might work in the hopes that the bees swarm somewhere else. It may kill them but we all hope that they decide that their new home was not a good choice and they abscond. It will probably take several sprinkler heads to surround the tree leaving no dry entrance or exit. Good luck.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

The only option for not causing a big stinking mess is: Trap out. Then rob out. Then seal the holes.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

I think some people should look as some photos of a banyan tree. There may not be any holes.


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## G3farms (Jun 13, 2009)

Point well taken, that is not a tree, just a HUGE mess of vines out of control that looks like a tree.

Never seen anything like that.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

If you kill the bees and don't do anything about sealing the holes in the tree, there is a good chance that a new swarm will move back in that same tree. 

And if you are prepared to seal up the holes, then you might as well seal all but _one _hole, then do a trapout (to collect and move the bees to a hive), THEN seal up the final hole.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

rader, look at the tree and then explain which hole you want him to seal up.


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## G3farms (Jun 13, 2009)

https://www.google.com/search?q=ban...ost-magnificent-trees-in-the-world%2F;500;375

Not sure how many pallets of spray foam that will take


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

Along the Rader and others line of thought. Have you checked the removal list on the top bar of Beesource. The current residents probably will not be the last tenants to occupy now that one hive has. Annoying them with plain water (a little often) enough to get them to abscond might really be the best, but someone with eyes on and experience is going to give the best advice. If you cannot get at the brood combs you can kill a lot of bees and still have bees. If you can get at the comb enough to soap it someone good can probably get the comb removed. May be small pieces but so what.
Mild mannered bees do not stay that way when poked and prodded often.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

It doesn't matter how big the hole is. I repeat, _if you don't seal up the hole, there is a good chance more bees will move back in. _

You don't have to use foam exclusively, but you do need to seal it with something regardless of whether you do a trapout or not.

Nail up some screen wire across the gap, then foam the wire. _Bee _creative! 
Familiar with WWJD? How about this version ... WWED? any _*E*ngineers _out there? :scratch:


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## VARyan (Feb 4, 2013)

Banyan trees are extremely invasive and banned throughout much of south Florida. Cut it down, then cut the bees out and give them to someone that appreciates bees. That way your doing the environment two favors. Once the tree is gone replace it with a native species.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

VARyan said:


> Banyan trees are extremely invasive and banned throughout much of south Florida.


How do you ban something that grows on it own? The rules of nature... if it wasn't native it is now. If you don't believe in that then don't keep bees.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

You can read the actual Florida invasive species rules here:
http://miami-dade.ifas.ufl.edu/old/...ons/PDF/Miami-Dade-County-Invasive-Plants.pdf

Certain plants, including Banyan, cannot be legally be planted in the restricted area. And if you are developing a property (building a structure), existing specimens must be removed if you want a permit to build.


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## VARyan (Feb 4, 2013)

"If you don't believe in that then don't keep bees."

How are honey bees invasive? They aren't. Are they native? No. If you don't know what a word means Ace, then look it up before you blabber. I suppose the pythons living in the Everglades are now native according to you. I'm sure the folks in Georgia love all of their native kudzu. Zebra mussels are a great native dish. If you don't believe in protecting our environment and solving environmental issues such as invasive species, then YOU shouldn't keep bees Ace. Once again, it's invasive, cut it down, cut out the bees. Simple. Several problems solved.


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## tommysnare (Jan 30, 2013)

Acebird said:


> How do you ban something that grows on it own? The rules of nature... if it wasn't native it is now. If you don't believe in that then don't keep bees.




uhhhhh...i think you should ask Enslinger that question about prohabition he started in the 30's hahahaha. ok, back to the topic opcorn:


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Graham, have you looked at a picture of a banyan tree? It shocked me when I looked...ain't no way to seal that sucker up unless you wrap the whole tree in screen!!! Looks like a nightmare to try and cut them out, too!!! From your comments I don't think you've looked, yet. Check it out.

Ed



Rader Sidetrack said:


> It doesn't matter how big the hole is. I repeat, _if you don't seal up the hole, there is a good chance more bees will move back in. _
> 
> You don't have to use foam exclusively, but you do need to seal it with something regardless of whether you do a trapout or not.
> 
> ...


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

G3farms said:


> https://www.google.com/search?q=ban...ost-magnificent-trees-in-the-world%2F;500;375
> 
> Not sure how many pallets of spray foam that will take


Probably better to get one of those trucks that does spray in/on insulation...


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

VARyan said:


> I suppose the pythons living in the Everglades are now native according to you.


In time ... The earth started out as a fiery mass with life evolving out of the oceans. So if you lived back then what would you call native? It appears to me that if any other animal was involved in moving seeds around the globe except for MAN it would be called native.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Ed, the thread started out with what to do about the bees in the tree. Big hole or not, if you kill the existing bees and don't do anything about the hole in the tree, there is a good chance new bees will move back into the the tree.  Then you have the same problem all over again. 

If sealing the holes in the tree is difficult, well, life is full of tough choices. 

In this case the choices include 


A. _repeatedly _killing bees
 B. removing the tree (it is an invasive species anyway)
 C. sealing the holes
 D. Leaving the bees in the tree alone


If the choice is (C), why not do a trapout before sealing the final hole? :scratch:

My personal choice would be (D) and then set up some swarm traps.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Acebird said:


> In time ... The earth started out as _a fiery mass with life evolving out of the oceans_. So if you lived back then what would you call native?<snip>


That is *your choice* of belief, my belief is that God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob, the Father of Jesus Christ of Nazareth spoke creation into existence...that is *my* choice of belief. We all have decisions to make.

Equal airtime, eh bird? 

As for the nativity of different species, all are native to this earth and it is true that they can be transported by many means...man, animal, environment. But pythons (and many other plants and creatures) have not been here on our continent for the last several thousand years, only a newcomer in very recent years. They are disrupting and endangering the "native" creature population. It is a relative thing whereas the ecosystem has a careful balance established and suddenly a usurper is introduced that the "native" population does not have the ability to defend itself from...and is overwhelmed by the newcomer. Sure, in time the pythons might be considered "native" but the definition is relative to the current situation not how they will be viewed in another thousand or two years.

A tip of the 5-gallon bucket to you! 
Ed


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Graham, I agree with you on leaving the bees. I seriously don't think it'd be possible to seal that tree up (just looking at examples of that type of tree...not the exact one). But, yeah, if the holes can be sealed I'd definitely do a trapout before sealing the last one. I just wanted to be sure you had seen a picture of those trees...incredible maze of "trunks"(?) for the bees to be hidden away in.

Ed


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

> A tip of the 5-gallon bucket to you! 

There's an idea ...

Stuff a bunch of _5 gallon buckets _in the hole to reduce the foam required! :lpf:

:digging:

... probably best to have _lids _on those buckets first ...
... water in the buckets optional ... 


:gh:


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

I'd drive the bees out with beego (applied behind the nest).
I'd place a weak hive (perhaps queerness, but with brood) near one of the entances to hopefully attract the fleeing bees...if there us an obvious exit, you could try catching them in a large cloth/mesh bag/net.

After the bees are gone, bring in another hive to rob out the honey.

Remove what comb you can, and stuff the void that the bees occupied with fiberglass insulation. Maybe leave a baited swarm trap in/near the tree so it is easier next time.

Deknow


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Now, this isn't the exact banyan tree that is being talked about (but if it is..what a wild shot!) But, if the bee tree is somewhat similar to this one...which opening would be left to set a trapout at and which ones would need filling with foam???  Ed


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

I wouldn't do either.

I'd drive out the bees rather than trap them out, and I'd stuff fiberglass insulation where the combs are best one can.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

deknow said:


> I'd drive out the bees rather than trap them out,


That is what I was hoping what would happen with a constant spray of water.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

Acebird said:


> That is what I was hoping what would happen with a constant spray of water.


Constant rain keeps my bees in place.....


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

johansenka said:


> I have a friend who has a colony of bees take up lodging in the recesses of a large banyan tree here in Southern Florida. The tree is too old and valuable to start hacking or sawing into it to remove the hive and there are multiple entries for the bees to come and go. The aim is to simply euthanize the bees. What is the best way to accomplish this task. The bees are not africanized and the hive is still relatively small given the time they have been there. I have been advised that soapy water will drown them. Thank you for your feedback.


Leave them alone.


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## Edymnion (May 30, 2013)

Yeah, given what the tree actually is, it appears to be virtually impossible to fill the cracks/holes.

Which means killing the bees that are in it now is only going to work for a season or two at most. If it was desirable enough for one swarm to move into, then its going to be desirable enough for likely every swarm that follows.

They either have to cut the tree down, or accept that it will have bees in it. I don't see any other long term solution.


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## jredburn (Feb 25, 2012)

First of all, spray foam to seal a bee entrance is a waste of time and money, the bees will simple and quickly chew through it. 
Trying to kill them with a spray can will kill part of them but not the queen or enough of them to damage the hive very much. They will just build back up and they will be aggressive. Very aggressive.
Trap outs sometimes cause the queen to take the colony and leave. Rarely will you succede in getting to move into a new box. It takes a long time for them to consume the honey in the hive before they will consider leaving. The bees that are traped outside the nest get really mean and aggressive. 
Sometimes bees move into a location that is hazardous to humans and must be removed. Sometimes it is not feasable to move them and they must be exterminated. If this becomes your only alternative, stuff a box of moth balls into the cavity and seal the entrances with a premixed bucket of concrete patch. Be prepared to visit the tree frequently as the bees will chew a new entrance every 3 or 4 days. If the bees that are outside the hive get mean and bother the people and animals around them, vacuum they off the tree at evening time and do a paper merge with another hive.


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## johansenka (Mar 21, 2014)

Thank you for your many responses to my post. It is obvious that it is an interesting and somewhat emotional issue to address for us who have invested so much in trying to cultivate and preserve bees. Before my inquiry I actually employed the services of a local bee keeper who tried to entice the bees into a baited nuc. The bees just robbed it. If some had swarmed and taken up residence in he new hive it would not have solved the problem. It would have just made it necessary to destroy fewer bees. My aged friend and his wife who own the land love to work in the yard but are very fearful of the bees. I'll let you know how the problem was finally addressed and resolved (or not).


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## JakeDatc (Apr 19, 2010)

If there are nectar sources in their yard then there will be bees in their yard weather there is a hive there or not. unless they are throwing rocks at the hive i don't see what they are afraid of. bees on flowers aren't out to get you. perhaps education would be better than extermination.


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## VARyan (Feb 4, 2013)

"perhaps education would be better than extermination"

Second that.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Edymnion said:


> then its going to be desirable enough for likely every swarm that follows.


I am not say another swarm won't return but if it was a given then no one would ever have to by bees. We could just put out used hives and let the swarms take up residence.



> perhaps education would be better than extermination.


Education doesn't necessarily curb fear.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

BeeCurious said:


> Constant rain keeps my bees in place.....


They can't forever when the weather is warm. Maybe the answer is not constant rain. Maybe you put it on a timer so it is off for an hour in the morning letting the foragers go out but not get back in. This would also give them a time slot to abscond.


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## JakeDatc (Apr 19, 2010)

Acebird said:


> Education doesn't necessarily curb fear.


so you'd pander to irrational fear and just kill everything that people are afraid of? down there they have poisonous snakes and spiders probably within the same range as the bee hive. get crackin'


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

No if you read my posts they suggest nothing about killing the bees. Fear is something that may not be controllable. I don't like spiders and snakes even though most of them are totally harmless and I know it. Fear is not necessarily controlled by education. I am not saying the education would hurt but it is not always the answer.


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## JakeDatc (Apr 19, 2010)

well Johan's last post sounded like he had given up the trapping idea and because the owners were afraid then the advice here wasn't going to work. hopefully they get stung in the process as a bit of karmic revenge.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

JakeDatc said:


> hopefully they get stung in the process as a bit of karmic revenge.


Great, solidifying their fear of bees. That would not be what I would wish for.


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## JakeDatc (Apr 19, 2010)

if they kill a whole hive of bees for no reason then they are beyond that. maybe they should build a bunker for the Mayan Apocalypse... oh wait.. that didn't happen


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

Someone comes onto a beekeepers site and asks "How do I kill Bees?" Pretty slim chance education is going to work, maybe next swarm in the same tree.


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## JakeDatc (Apr 19, 2010)

it seems like he was working for an older couple in his neighborhood or parents. THEY are who need to be educated that eliminating the hive in the tree won't do jack for not having bees in their yard while they are working.


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

You and Ace agree, you just differ on whether education will happen.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Bottom line is that the people that own the tree will have to make the decision that is right for *them*. I don't want the bees to die, you (whoever "you" is) don't want the bees to die, and very likely the owners of the tree don't want the bees to die...but they have apparently exhausted different options for a good outcome for the bees...give them credit for at least trying being as many people don't give a second thought to killing honey bees. 

The owners may very well get stung by a foraging bee in there yard, but they should not have to live with the fear of tens of thousands of bees when they walk out into their yard, a place in which they (the owners) have the right to be safe and secure.

It appears to be a sad fact that the bees picked a bad spot to establish their colony. 

Ed


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## Cedar Hill (Jan 27, 2009)

Problem can be easily taken cared of by purchasing a "Hot Shot No Pest strip". Cut the large strip into 1/4" to 3/8" wide long strips. Smoke the entrance, slide the strips in. Bees AND queen will vacate within a couple of days or less. No harm will be done to them, they know that they must either leave or die. Seal the entrance. Job done. This works exceedingly well with swarms who have just occupied the walls of houses. OMTCW


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

CH, for a standard cavity that might work, not so sure about a banyan tree...look at the picture of one on the previous page...


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

JakeDatc said:


> if they kill a whole hive of bees for no reason then they are beyond that. maybe they should build a bunker for the Mayan Apocalypse... oh wait.. that didn't happen


JD, they appear to have a good reason and they appear to have tried to find an alternative. Every person is not a beekeeper. So, is that your pet bird with you?


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## challenger (May 27, 2009)

Just another shot in the dark. I don't know how many entrances they are using so this idea is somewhat dependent on this. If they are using 2-3 entrances a bee vacuum could perhaps gather enough foragers to cause resources to dwindle to the point that they may try to move to another spot. I've used my bee vacuum a few times for similar reasons but not similar conditions. I've run my vacuum to catch returning workers plus smoked the heck out of them to where guard bees were coming out and getting sucked up. I Obviously If this worked it would be until new tenants moved in. If nothing else whoever did this would get a bunch of honey filled bees B-). 
That tree is a challenge for sure. If they can be convinced to leave maybe cedar oil, and moth balls (not the reproductive kind-of difficult to obtain) or other stinky material might make some other bees not like this tree. 
Invasive, introduced either through "scientific research" or accidental are both still nuisance animals at best and devastating at worst. Think of all the animals that paid professionals decided to introduce to fix a problem. I am of the opinion that these will never be considered "native" 
My ancestors came over many moons ago but if I put, and "native American" on a job application I would still be called a liar. 
I didn't really want that job anyway. :-D


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