# NC Town Has Banned Beekeeping;



## TattooedBeek (Aug 20, 2010)

That sux. Glad I don't live there. Just make sure they have a search warrant before letting them in your house. Without one you don't have to let them in.


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## ctgolfer (May 4, 2011)

Wow, this is a bad deal for everyone, those dogs would end up with a bullet in the head in the middle of the night if they were here. You cant let this stand, no way-no how. I would move a hive to my front lawn and protect it with my AR-15 and 20- 30 round mags loaded and ready to go, let them come take the bees! Good luck, phone number is just busy so far today. Good luck my bee brother, we will help!


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## alfredd (Jul 24, 2011)

in a round about way, we already have bees banned in Ontario cities. Hives need to be at least 100 ft from the property line when a dwelling resides next to your lot, so unless you have an older estate sized lot, :ws:


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

ctgolfer said:


> .... those dogs would end up with a bullet in the head in the middle of the night if they were here. ..... I would.... protect it with my AR-15 and 20- 30 round mags loaded and ready to go, let them come take the bees! ....... we will help!


Not sure what kind of help your post offers. Claiming that you're ready to shoot anyone enforcing the law or that you would murder them in the middle of the night in a public forum doesn't help the cause. It makes the rest of us that oppose such laws look either like blustering fools or dangerous, armed kooks.

Maybe it's better for the cause if you did not talk to the mayor.

Wayne


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Andy -

Can you please post the complete city ordinance/law here?


ctgolfer -

Let's also save the "wild west" advice for the wild west, which is now history.


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## brac (Sep 30, 2009)

I just spoke to the town office, and they said the rule is they must be 75 feet from any property line. 
They say there is no Ban, please post the complete city ordinance/law here?

Hopefully you checked your facts before asking us to join in.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

_*IF*_ all properties are only 150 feet wide, I guess you could still call it a ban!


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## OSafado (Jun 24, 2011)

Barry said:


> _*IF*_ all properties are only 150 feet wide, I guess you could still call it a ban!


Half acre lots are pretty rare where I am from, and even there, the lot would need to be perfectly square, and the beehive would have to be dead canter. I would consider this a ban from residential properties.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

OSafado said:


> the lot would need to be perfectly square, and the beehive would have to be dead canter.


No, it could be a mile deep, as long as it is only 150' wide, it would be in violation.

"75 feet from _*any*_ property line"


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

Louisburg seems like a small... almost rural community to have any kind of regulations about bees. I'll have to do a little checking and see what I can find out... first I have heard of it.


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## arthurw (May 10, 2011)

Maybe you can contact a large nearby city paper and see if they would do a story on the situation. One that would make the town look as if they are stupid hicks. It's amazing what bad publicity does for stupid town councils.


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## arthurw (May 10, 2011)

Your other option is to run for Mayor!


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

arthurw said:


> Maybe you can contact a large nearby city paper and see if they would do a story on the situation.


I see the local papers are full of articles about the ban. And yes I suspect one of the larger state papers... ie... The News and Observer... would be very interested in the fracas.

We do live in the South.... but fancy ourselves to be a relatively progressive state, hence I suspect the NandO would give it an appropriate slant.


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## hipbee (Sep 11, 2009)

I got a response from the mayor!! maybe. he told me about the 75 ft restriction, so I asked him what percentage of the towns lots would meet those requirements. well see if I get a response.......I hope they get enuff emails to crash there computers, that kind of silly law scares me to death.
I think CTGolfers post was pretty extreme, but if it comes down to it im going to be moving my hives to his house! I would rather lose some in the crossfire than hand them over to any town mayor!


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## Radford (Jul 13, 2010)

I just called the zoning dept.I asked about freal bees and was told that has not been addressed. So just call your hives feral bees. I will write a letter and explain how much taxes they can rob from us when we sell honey.


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## Haddon (Feb 26, 2009)

I emailed the mayor

Its shame full when a town tries to remove freedoms from its citizens. Don't reply to me that its not a ban because a 152 by 152 foot lot for one bee hive seems like a economic ban to me. 

Then I said.

I hope you never take another bit of food produced from bee pollination. I hope you like corn and rice. 

I hope he starves honestly lol. 

I know it most likely will have little effect but its fun would be a lot nicer to spam the hack out of the court house but I would not advise doing that.


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## ctgolfer (May 4, 2011)

hipbee said:


> I think CTGolfers post was pretty extreme, but if it comes down to it im going to be moving my hives to his house! I would rather lose some in the crossfire than hand them over to any town mayor!


I would fight this kind of law tooth and nail, a law made by some bubba mayor to please some bubba in-law is crap, we dont take that kind of stuff when they try to slip it through here. (ask the first selectmen in our little town) What I posed was very extream but after all other avanues were exhausted I would go extream for the sake of future beekeepers. We let these guys pass this stuff now and we will be nothing but drones in the future. You have to expose the real motive behind this law in the press and fight it to the max. Other towns must see that we will not have our rights taken away without a fight of some sort. They can take my hives when they pry my hive tool from my cold dead hands! I have 150 acres to put bees on but I would join the fight for the guys that dont have a large plot. Sorry if I offened you Barry,just saying my mind.


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

I just sent an email to the NandO (large NC newspaper) to see if anyone was aware of the Louisburg Bee Ban and to see if an article could be done.

`[email protected] or call (919) 829-4520


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## Beeboy01 (May 20, 2008)

If you have the space put you hives along the side of you garage ot next to the back of of your house and then fence them in using stockade fencing. Put a big no trespassing sign on the fence and see what happens.Out of sight out of mind.


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## Ray4852 (May 27, 2011)

The city would be the last place I would put in a bee hive. A lot of people don't want hives in the city. hives belong out in rural areas away from people.


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

Would you put one in Arcade, NY.... I think Louisburg has about 1000 less people... pop: 3000.


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## Ray4852 (May 27, 2011)

arcade ny is a rural area. I have hives on my property. I'm zoned for farming. I don't have many people living around me. I don't know what the problem is in NC. My guess A group of people don't want them there.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

You can keep bees in New York City, but not in small town America. Sad.


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## woodguyrob (Jul 29, 2010)

Ray4852 said:


> The city would be the last place I would put in a bee hive. A lot of people don't want hives in the city. hives belong out in rural areas away from people.


Do you realize how many roof top hives there are in major cities? Because "a lot of people don't want hives in the city" there should be no bees? hmmmm


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## brac (Sep 30, 2009)

people don't want rats in the city either, hows that working out? What is the average lot size in the town?


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## wkinne (Jul 17, 2010)

In Michigan we have grandfather laws that would exempt anyone that had hives before the law was passed, nothing like that there?

Wayne


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

Wayne is probably on to something... the law or ordinance would need to specifically say that existing hives have to be removed... if not, they are pre-ordinance and a different situation entirely.


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## baldwinbees (Mar 2, 2010)

what did your Senator,Representative,&Governor think?


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## wkinne (Jul 17, 2010)

If you really want to get them here is what ya do...

File suit againest the City and each one of the counsel members for violating your civil rights. The City will have to pay their Lawyer to respond to each and every suit, he will charge the city well over $100 per hour and when faced with paying him $20,000 from an already overspent budget they will fold. You should contact a civil liberties group to supply you with legal counsel to file the suits. Yo might even be able to file them yourself, I don't know NC law. I have a son that is a Lawyer, but he too is in Michigan.

Good luck,
Wayne


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

There is a member here that will be practicing law in NC soon, not sure what area of practice, but he's a bee keeper and may be able to point you in the right direction if nothing else...


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

rrussell6870 said:


> There is a member here that will be practicing law in NC soon, .


Yes.. I believe I know who you are referring to and he is not very far from Louisburg.


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

I have kept hives in neighborhoods in a city of 25,000+ and on the top of a 26 storey building in a city of 200,000+... there are ignorant people everywhere, so you will have to face a few every now and then... the best way that I have learned to handle them is to be polite, try to keep hives out of sight, and when an official shows up to "discuss" complaints... just tell them that you will get your attorney to send them a copy of some of the rulings involving bees in communities as well as an itemized list of the potential monetary damages that you would incur if you were forced to move or lose your hives... they usually just need something to tell the complainants... which in a few cases, they have just said that they would tell them that they are federally protected and killing them or hurting their development could cause serious legal issues that the county is not willing to face... so if they have an issue with them being there, thru should try to kindly ask the owner if there are ways to prevent whatever nuisance they are complaining about...


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

rrussell6870 said:


> I...they are federally protected and killing them or hurting their development could cause serious legal issues .....


So often repeated that many people believe it's true.

Wayne


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

Shhh! Lol.


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

Actually, it would technically be "harassing wildlife" to bother any bees that are not on your property... hint hint.. considering the old debate that they may only be temporarily occupying our equipment, but are never tamed, keeps them in a native wildlife category and opens Tue doors for both protection and complication...

"Assumed Authority" is the authority that the public may assume an office to hold, whether they do actually hold that authority or not is up to the courts... so letting them get away with bluffing only adds precedence on their side... it would take an act of congress to make me move my hives... literally. Lol.


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## msapostol (Sep 6, 2008)

In my town, they tried to enact an ordinance years after we contacted city hall about bees. They pretty much just put it together without any input from beekeepers. Sounds like here they just slapped the thing together too. 

My partner went and talked to them and we told them we had asked the city about ordinances and they admitted they had none previous. We had asked all out adjacent neighbors about our keeping bees and they were all fine. They made a deal with us--we had to get signatures from all the neighbors, even the kitty corner neighbors and we offered to be bee consultants.

I thought I had also read that Kim Flottum of the magazine Bee Culture might lend a hand if you contacted him.

Totally sucks that this happened, and I hope you will be able to keep your bees!


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## Ben Franklin (May 3, 2011)

Is beekeeping considered an agriculture business in your state?

Do you need to file registration for your hives? Who are your bees registered with State or Town or city?

In Ohio township, villages and county can not interfere with an Agricultural Business. They can not zone out agriculture.


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## Onekill (Aug 26, 2011)

Could someone please post the ordinance as it was written. Since the honeybee was designated as the official state insect in 1973, i am interested to see have they worded it. 

Not required to register hives as a hobby beek. Beekeeping is regulated by the Dept. of Ag under Article 55. North Carolina Bee and Honey Act of 1977. First paragraph says it all!

There are several articles on the net where people are dealing with city ordinances and backyard beekeeping. Read one within the last week about Buffalo,NY. They are using livestock ordinances as there basis for justifying beehives.

http://www.buffalonews.com/city/communities/buffalo/article541913.ece


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## Walliebee (Nov 17, 2006)

It's illegal to keep honeybees in Chapel Hill, NC as well. It has been for quite a long time. Beekeeping is considered an agricultural business, and bees are considered livestock. Therefore they are not permitted in areas that are zoned residential.

"Agriculture, Livestock:
The use of land for the keeping, grazing, feeding, or breeding of livestock, including
cattle, hogs, sheep, goats, and poultry, and also animal specialties such as horses,
breeding of livestock, including cattle, hogs, sheep, goats, and poultry, and also animal
specialties such as horses, rabbits, bees, and fish and fur-bearing animals in captivity."


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

msapostol said:


> We had asked all out adjacent neighbors about our keeping bees and they were all fine. They made a deal with us--we had to get signatures from all the neighbors, even the kitty corner neighbors and we offered to be bee consultants.


This is know as a "variance" and will usually be able to overturn city ordinances for the specific locations...

It basically just shows that the people around a certain address are in agreement with your desires... problem is, its usually the direct neighbours that end up complaining simply because they can see the hives and thus get paranoid...

Educating the public is important for all of us... development is continuously racing towards the rural areas... I have locations that have been in the same place for decades but are now surrounded by neighbourhoods...


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Europa said:


> The reason the law (Section 5-50 Keeping of Bees) got passed quickly behind closed doors is that there is a family feud going one between two residences of Louisburg: Neighbor #1 has Barking dogs that keep the whole neighborhood up: neighbor #2 complained about the barking dogs and neighbor #1 said I am friends with the Mayor and will have him pass a law making you get rid of the honeybees you love. So this is just small town politics affecting the lives of everyone without a concern for those affected.


Very sad. And I believe you have a good chance that this law will be scrapped once common sense prevails.

However I'm going to say there is also a lesson here to be learned. When we keep bees, it is to some extent, an imposition on our neighbors, they now have small stinging insects coming into their property. We hope their attitude to us will be live and let live. We need to be the same to them. I wonder if the beekeeper in this story had not been so pedantic about the neighbors dogs, the guy with the dogs would not have been so pedantic about the other guys bees.


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

TattooedBeek said:


> Just make sure they have a search warrant before letting them in your house. Without one you don't have to let them in.


Not 100% true. There are a number of exceptions to the warrant rule, although the home is considered your most protected area under the 4th Amendment.




rrussell6870 said:


> There is a member here that will be practicing law in NC soon, not sure what area of practice, but he's a bee keeper and may be able to point you in the right direction if nothing else...


And who might that be Robert? lol.


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

Hmmm... I wonder... give me half a chance and I will have you overrun with cases. Lol.


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

Hahaha, I don't doubt it.

I started last Tuesday at a firm in Greensboro, practicing primarily Consumer Bankruptcy, but a little bit of Tax and Business litigation.

That, of course, does not mean that's ALL I know about, just what I do on a daily basis, lol.

So did we ever get the actual town ordinance? Or is it a zoning restriction?


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## Walliebee (Nov 17, 2006)

Specialkayme said:


> So did we ever get the actual town ordinance? Or is it a zoning restriction?


I have looked for it online, but they have not updated their town website in several years. I guess one would have to call and get it sent to you. Hopefully Europa will chime in and provide it.


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## brac (Sep 30, 2009)

He should call them and tell them he needs it faxed or e-mailed to his lawyer.


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## AR Beekeeper (Sep 25, 2008)

In Arkansas in 1889 the city of Arkadelphia declared honey bees to be a nuisance and tried to force a beekeeper to move his bees. The case went to the Arkansas Supreme Court which ruled that declaring all honey bees a nuisance was illegal. Each case had to be tried on it's own merit and bees causing an inconvenience did not equal a nuisance. Arkadelphia vs. Clark, 52 Ark. 23: 11 S. W. 957, 1889.


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## Jon F (Jun 7, 2011)

Thats really bad, banning honeybees. The government controlling everything is a very bad thing. This sounds like just a few people fighting using politics. Try giving them some honey. I am very thankfull that the government has not tried any stunts like that here. If they did I am able to hide my hives in a way that they would never find them. The government should lay off us beekeepers, and concentrate on the illegal drug trade that goes on very heavily around here. The government should be promoting the art beekeeping, not being the detriment of it. The government should help the people, not hurt them and all life on earth. I really dont see why everyone is so scared of honeybees. All of the wasps, yellow jackets, and bumble bees not only sting multiple times, but also have a larger, more painful, and more poisonous stinger. Well bred honeybees have very good temper.


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## beeG (Jun 18, 2011)

This thread came to mind today while I was at the park in Town. I was at an event with my dog. I did notice earlier honey bees collecting spilled soda from the picnic tables.
While I was leaving, a family saw my dog. She is pink and white which attracts children. Some very small children came over to pet her. A very young boy around 2 years old 3 at the most came running up to my dog. And was squealing ,happily. The mother tried to carry him away. But he started crying wanting my dog. When the mother caught the child again.
A Honey bee came out of nowhere, and was dive bombing the child, and mother. The mother started to run with the child . As she was running away she said this bee has been bothering them the whole time they have been here. Because her boy had spilled juice on him. 
They were running, and believe me that bee was in attack mode. No hive in the park , it was a breast cancer walk I saw no hives. No bees in trees.
Some bees, with in someone’s hive nearby ( most likely) or a feral swarm are taking over that park. If a small cute baby boy like that gets stung, and happens to be allergic. How many cases will it take to hit the paper ( in that town one) , and mothers are up in rage that they cannot take their children to the park because of mean bees? What if they go and call them killer bees?
Hives in cities or within a few miles of cities. One has to weigh the possibilities here? Some self regulations need to come to play on how to be a good neighbor?
Being that bee keeping and the plight of bees are somewhat in the media now. More and more people are getting into bees. More, and more people in cities. How long before more regulations? Then regulations of areas within so many miles of a city etc.?


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## Batman (Jun 7, 2009)

Glad I saw this thread. While I am not trying to hi-jack this thread, I think my current situation applies here.
On Sept 1st, the city code enforcement dept contacted my wife about my bees. While she said that the guy was nice, he said that I had to move my hives out by Sept 12th. He gave her paperwork staying that the infraction is "breeding and & keeping of animals, non domesticated." The following pape describe the definition of domesticated and non-domesticated animal as:

Domesticated animals: Any houseold pet (see defintion) that is adapted to life in close association with people, including dogs, cats, rabbits, fish, guinea pigs, miniature pigs, small reptiles, rodents and other similar animals no larger than the largest breed dogs, but not including domestic fowl.

Non-domesticated animals: any animal other than a domesticated animal.

I did receive a link from an UC Davis contact describing bees in an artificial hive such as a wooden box as Domesticated. I forwarded the link, but we'll see if it will help. I did inform the city worker that I think educating people about bees would be a better option.

Anyone with a little more help would be appreciated.

C2


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

Batman (always awesome to start a post like this),

The short answer would be to tell you to move the hives. "You can't fight city hall" and "the government always wins." Even if you do win, the process will be your punishment.

But, if you are determined to fight this, do a little research and find out whether or not CA classifies bees as "domesticated" or "non-domesticated." There should be some case-law on this. Most states either classify honeybees as "domesticated" or specifically don't classify them as either, for a special reason. It would also be helpful to know what "household pet" means in the infraction, as it says see description. The definition of domesticated animals leaves you with enough wiggle room to argue this if you wanted to. But again, it might be too costly for it to be of any value to you.

You could always contact your Department of Agriculture (they should be of some help) as well as any state sponsored Legal Aid department (usually not as much help, unless you are in serious trouble). They might not have answers, but can usually point you in the right direction.


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

By the cities reasoning, any one with a birdhouse would be in violation...


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

For that matter, any one that has knowledge of a wasp nest in a man-made object on their property that fails to destroy them is in violation...


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

Well, the only issue that I see on the face of it is the defined term of "domesticated *animal*." Bees are not animals, not even looking at the domesticated issue.

It got me out of a landlord dispute a couple of years ago. I asked permission to keep them on the land I rented. He said he didn't care. 10 months later he wanted a reason to evict me because his friend wanted to rent the house. He called animal control to have them "remove" my bees. Animal control said "Well . . . the way I see it I'm Animal Control . . . that isn't an animal . . . and I can't control it . . . have a nice day."


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

This situation brings up a touchy subject... as some deem bees domestic because we breed them, feed them, manipulate them to serve our specific needs, and of course produce goods for profit from them... any free range livestock falls under the same category... then, the other side if that coin is that bees could leave the box and possibly survive in the wild without our assistance... 

Opening this door can be good and bad... say that they come to agree that bees are domesticated and thus view them as pets or livestock... but then a neighbour gets a bees sting while cutting his grass... sure there is no way for him to prove that it was your bee, but the court will have to error on the side of judgement for the particulars... if the only person that has reported being stung in the district just happened to be standing near the only bee hives that are known to be in the district, the courts may have to assume that the bee was indeed from those hives... and since they are considered pets or livestock, you would be liable for damages... 

However, if they are wild, you are keeping non-domesticated animals... 

It's a tough situation... again, one that would not be so common if we could focus on educating more people in our communities...

If you wish to show that your bees are indeed domestic... you should have some form of receipts from purchasing the bees or queens themselves... this combined with a letter of opinion from the state veterinarian would do the trick.

Good luck!


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## libhart (Apr 22, 2010)

Ray4852 said:


> The city would be the last place I would put in a bee hive. A lot of people don't want hives in the city. hives belong out in rural areas away from people.


Not so. The Ritz-Carlton in Charlotte, NC has two on its roof.
http://www.wcnc.com/news/neighborho...ces-two-beehives-on-hotels-roof-91511439.html


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## BoBn (Jul 7, 2008)

Batman said:


> He gave her paperwork staying that the infraction is "breeding and & keeping of animals, non domesticated."
> C2


I guess that bird houses and bird feeders are also not allowed?


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