# Two queen hive and different breeds



## MattDavey (Dec 16, 2011)

This year I decided to try a two queen hive. One queen is Italian and the other is Carniolan. 

They started of as two separate Nucs, which I merged in a long (double width) hive using a vertical queen excluder. To merge I simply placed a frame of foundation on each side of the vertical excluder, then each colony on either side, with entrances at either end (top entrances).

Bees don't mind having more than one queen, you just need to keep the queens from getting to each other.

So they were both 4 frames each at the start of Winter (May). I had seen on the forums that a hive will often dispose of one of the queens coming into spring. I believe this is due to one queen starting to lay later than the other, producing less queen pheromones. So to avoid this I replace the vertical excluder with a plywood partition. Michael Palmer style I made it into a double Nuc (also called a divided deep). Placing the brood nest of each (only 1 or 2 frames by this stage) hard up against each side of the partition. Then fed for a few weeks to make sure they had enough stores. 

In early spring (August) when the plum trees were in blossom I checked and found they both had at least 3 frames of brood. The Carniolans were still on 4 frames but the Italians had drawn out a couple of frames ( I assume with the feeding), so had 6 frames.

My theory is to merge again when each side has at least 3 frames of brood. This is so that the queens are both producing enough queen pheromone. They both had this amount, so I replaced the partition with the queen excluder. Again had a frame of foundation on each side of the excluder, to allow for the merge.

The population has grown fast and I have seen both queens several times since.

Having the different breeds also seems to get the best of both breeds. Where one is lacking, the other makes up for it. For example, my Italians are very gentle but don't deal with pests very well. The Carniolan are also very gentle but do deal with pests well. The double hive is doing much better than when the Italians were on their own. So a hygienic queen and a good honey producing (breed) queen could work well.

Of course they also have a higher population with the two queens. Although I still haven't used any smoke to work on this hive. I just have a cloud of bees hanging around if I remove one of the supers, because of the top entrances.

Checked today and they have now drawn at least 24 foundationless deep frames (only two of those could have been from feeding). I have also taken out two 3 frame splits. So they have gone from 8 frames at the start of winter (May) to a total (including the splits) of around 32 frames to now (November) and its only half way through the swarm season! On that note, no signs of wanting to swarm. I have been opening the broodnest with this hive.

So having two queens, and different breeds of queens is an option.

Matthew Davey


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## dirt road (Jan 4, 2011)

Was there a reason for having the entrances on the ends, instead of on the side, more or less adjacent to each other? I am very interested in this idea, in part because I have a long hive I built last winter and then did not use. It was built from planks salvaged from an old stock corral, and wound up being about as heavy as a coffin. A bit of work on it and I could put it to use with what seems to me would be an interesting project.


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## MattDavey (Dec 16, 2011)

The top entrances are in the front of the two roofs. I have them closed down to 1/4 each during winter and half the width of each roof for the rest if the year.

Having the two entrances allows air movement through the hive without having a large number of bees fanning. This is because they only need bees fanning at one entrance, pulling the air out and so it gets drawn in from the other entrance.

When I super, I use 10 frame or 2x4 frame boxes (half 10 frame boxes). This creates a "U" shape for the air flow.

I do also have the ability to open up the ends on the base. This is mainly to be able to clean out the base. They could also be used as entrances if I wanted to.

Matthew Davey


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Interesting Matt. One thought I have...are you seeing an equal mixing of bees? Yellow and dark bees in both ends of your long hive, in nearly equal numbers, or does each end contain mostly bees from its own queen?


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## MattDavey (Dec 16, 2011)

They were acting just like separate colonies for about the first month or so after the partition was removed, but gradually mixed. (There was usually more bees at the Italian entrance). The mixing has been the most noticeable after the supers were added. 

I'm now seeing that both entrances have an equal number of bees nearly all day. If one entrance is too busy, bees will run over to the other entrance.

I had a look a few times today to compare the ratios at each entrance. Before going into the numbers I should mention that the Italian side has a larger brood nest. Something like 2 or 3 frames more the the Carniolan brood nest.

So the entrance on the Carniolan side ranged from 1/2 Italian and 1/2 Carniolan up to 2/3 Italian and 1/3 Carniolan.

The entrance on the Italian side ranged from 2/3 Italian and 1/3 Carniolan up to 3/4 Italian and 1/4 Carniolan.

I had a look in the brood nest on the Italian side the other day, but wasn't looking at the ratios. At a guess I would say it was more than 2/3, probably more like 3/4 Italian.

I'm thinking the ratio is always going to be more than 50:50 as you have bees from the one queen emerging on that side and possibly not going far from the frame they emerged from while they are in the nursing stage. So would expect the ratio to be more around 2/3 to 1/3, with the bias on the queen's breed if both brood nests were the same size.

Matthew Davey


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

This is an excellent post. You must be having fun with this hive. Thanks Matt.

I would be interested in hearing what happens if and when one of the colonies supercedes their queen.


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## MattDavey (Dec 16, 2011)

Thanks Michael, I am enjoying working with this hive.

Both queens are not quite a year old, so we could be waiting a while for possible supercedure!
Maybe they wouldn't replace a queen if she died.

Matthew Davey


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

Interesting please continue to share what you learn from this hive


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

MattDavey said:


> Maybe they wouldn't replace a queen if she died.
> 
> Matthew Davey


Yes, exactly. I've found they don't.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

Very interesting. Thanks for writing this up.

How is the rest of the hive configured? You say a double width hive, does that mean 20 frames horizontal? Much much space is given for brood? I guess you must be using queen excluders above the brood too, right? Do you have any pictures of this hive?


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## dirt road (Jan 4, 2011)

I too, would very much like to see any photos you could share. I'm not sure I clearly understand your supering method. Thanks again for this thread.
jim


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## MattDavey (Dec 16, 2011)

The hive is horizontal, 20 frames wide, with a vertical queen excluder in the centre. With top entrances, in the front of each roof, which come down the front of the hive a bit

Here's a picture of it when I first made it:









The supers from left to right are, 1/2 width 10 frame, 10 frame, then another 1/2 width 10 frame. The half width supers only fit 4 frames comfortably. I am also using these size boxes as Nucs. A queen excluder is under the 10 frame super.

The good thing about the 1/2 width supers on each side is that it allows easy access to each broodnest without having to take the whole hive apart.

For more photos see my website (which I haven't updated for quite a while):
http://daveybees.wikidot.com/longhive

Matthew Davey


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## MethowKraig (Aug 21, 2011)

I've experimented a lot with 2 queening. I've tried side by side, one queen over the other, and the "tower" system. 

But without much success. I would liken the situation to having two magnets next to each other with the "N" pole facing each other. Sooner or later one magnet flips and when it does, the bees move to the queen they favor and abandon the other.

For example the tower system is two side by side hives, two brood chambers each, topped with excluders, and then a single stack of supers centered. Only the field bees mix in the supers. When the bees moved up into the supers, they avoided the center frames. When have you ever seen that? They would go up two or three supers and hug their side, doing everything they could to avoid contact with the bees from the other cluster. I suspect that in your situation you have something similar. Two hives that will do everything they can to avoid each other.

In running 2 queens you are basically trying to produce a situation that is not natural for the hive. The only time the hive has two queens is in a supersedure and then only for a few weeks.

However, I have had great success in honey production by combining two queens. If you takes two weak hives and combine them just before the honeyflow, the combined hive will produce more honey than a single strong hive.

So, I often run two hives in a stack in the spring. Two boxes over two boxes. Entirely separate hives. I do this with my midiocre hives. 

In our area, the initial honeyflow is overwhelming. The key is to time the combine to be just prior to the honeyflow. In our area, the marker is the locust bloom. Almost always the main flow starts two weeks after the locust bloom fades. So, in the week after the locust bloom, I do a newspaper combine. Timing is everything.

Not sure this would be successful in other areas where there is not the huge initial flow.

"Met-How" Kraig


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## MattDavey (Dec 16, 2011)

Checked today and found lots of brood, of all ages! The Carniolan side's brood nest has been enlarged significantly. (I only checked the brood nests on both the sides.) The Italian brood nest is still the same size.

The Carinolan brood nest now appears to fill the bottom box and the queen has moved up into the half width super. So if the nest is still to the middle, that would be about 12 frames of brood (It was about 6 or 7 last time after taking a couple of splits). The Italian brood nest would be still about 8 frames.

A couple of random frames seem dedicated to pollen, so have up to 50% pollen. Rest of brood frames around 70% brood with mainly nectar around the edges. Saw a few queen cups (or should I say goblets) on each side of the hive but they were all empty. I removed them.

The Carinolan side has a denser population of bees and has drawn out more comb. I think a lot of these bees are nurse bees. Probably because of the larger brood nest.

Population mix still looks like the preference to queen's side is about 2/3 (at a guess). Good mix in the supers.

The main flow has just started. So we'll see what happens now!


Here's a picture of the hive with the supers on. (The thing on top is half a pallet.)










Matthew Davey


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## MattDavey (Dec 16, 2011)

MethowKraig said:


> I've experimented a lot with 2 queening. I've tried side by side, one queen over the other, and the "tower" system.
> 
> But without much success. I would liken the situation to having two magnets next to each other with the "N" pole facing each other. Sooner or later one magnet flips and when it does, the bees move to the queen they favor and abandon the other.
> 
> "Met-How" Kraig


I haven't seen any evidence of them trying to avoid each other since putting the supers on. How did you do side by side? As this is quite different to one queen over another and the tower system. The brood nests are literally joined beside each other, with only a vertical queen excluder to keep the queens getting to each other. There was brood right up against the excluder on both sides last time I checked.

I suppose whether it is successful or not depends on your goals. Mine are to:

1. Get lots of comb built.
2. Test a theory about bees won't swarm if there is a large amount of open brood.
3. Get a honey crop.

If the bees end up favouring one queen over the other, that is not a problem as they will be separated again in late autumn/fall ready for winter.

Matthew Davey


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## MattDavey (Dec 16, 2011)

Checked the hive today. Still lots of brood! Lots of bees!

The brood nests of both sides are still right up against the queen excluder. Actually found the Carniolan queen on the frame right next to the queen excluder. Her brood nest is right up into the bottom half of the half width super. Most brood frames on this side have a band of honey across the top, about 1/4 to 1/3 on some. Some of these frames are very wide at the top where the honey is, but normal width where the brood is.

The Italian side has very tight brood, a few frames more than 90%, even 95% brood. More consistent width to the frames.

The Carniolan side seems to be drawing wax much better than the Italian side. Not sure if it's because of the brood in the half width super.

New foundationless frames in the half width supers get drawn out straight away. Foundationless frames in the 10 frame super hardly get touched. Found that it's best to get frames drawn in the half width super, then move them to the super. The entrances are via the half width supers.

In terms of comb construction, the foundationless frames on the outside of the half width super get built with the "Y" to the outside (both sides of that box. They are 4 frame boxes). The two frames in the middle can be confused, having both "Y" and inverted "Y" on the same side. This is because they usually start two or three tear drop shaped comb. One of these may be "Y" the other inverted "Y". So I have been placing new frames on the outsides of these boxes.

They are continuing to expand, most cells full, so I had to put another super on. Now have close to 36 frames drawn. Plus the 6 taken for a split. (The split has a very nice Carniolan queen, which has brood on most frames. They have also drawn out another frame and are working on a second.)

Matthew Davey


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## dirt road (Jan 4, 2011)

Thanks for the update Matthew. Please keep us abreast of progress with this very interesting experiment.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

1st off Matt - nice looking hive box - looks better than some of the furniture in my house. We've been running 2 queen units for over a decade and although the intial introduction process is time consuming (300 hives) the production is great. We have found the bees live longer, tend to be more gentle despite being mega populated, are less plaqued by health issues (except mites) and suprisingly well organized. We run ours vertically for the heat advangtage to the upper section early in the season and have been running some through the season. I'm curious about how you plan to super them (extra large queen excluder ?) and how much of a honey increase you see in the vertical configuration. We have had the same experiance with numbers between the carni's and Italians and found what usually happens with queen losses on Few we run through the winter were a result of the cluster moving below an excluder leaving the upper queen behind. Aren't you expecting mega clusters, albeit seperate, in need of large amounts of stores for winter? We generally run our 2 queen units together one brood cycle aiming to have a peak population timed with the start of a major honey flow. After 26 days we combine our 2 queen units and they are packed the rest of the season once the dual brood starts hatching.


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## MattDavey (Dec 16, 2011)

Thanks Joel, good to hear from someone else running two queen hives.

I'm not using queen excluders other than the vertical one in the centre of the double width box. The 10 frame super in the centre actually has a mesh on the bottom, similar to #8 hardware mesh, but this is plastic. So the brood nests form a "U" shape. The super in the middle has not had any queens lay in it as they stay in their own brood nests. The frames are foundationless so there is drone comb in almost every frame. (Also, I've noticed there is very little brace comb with the foundationless.) So there is no need for a queen to leave the brood nest to lay in drone comb.

The next supers to go on top will be two normal 10 frame supers. (I actually have 2 half width supers on the top at the moment.)

Already seeing much more honey than a usual first year hive at this time of year and they have been drawing out many frames of comb. Still a month to go until mid summer, although this year has a very good flow. Best I've seen for several years.

In terms of preparing for winter I'm still not sure which way to go. May end up having to make up another hive. Considering they only wintered with 4 frames each, it's going to be difficult to cut them down to size, even if I remove one queen...

Matthew Davey


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## MattDavey (Dec 16, 2011)

Well I checked the hive today and the main flow is definitely over. Of the last four frames that were added two weeks ago only two an a half have been drawn and much of the nectar has been dried out and honey capped. So there's now a bit of empty comb in the supers and there was noticeably less bees on the Italian side. So had a look in the Italian side brood nest first. 

The Italian queen is gone! No eggs or open brood, but still a lot of capped brood, at least seven frames, a few over 60% capped. Also a lot of nectar in this brood nest. It may have been because I didn't keep up with them during the main flow. I was a bit late in adding the last lot of frames.

There was only ONE capped queen cell! Five queen cups, but there were all empty except one may have had a egg, (but I had already removed the cup when I saw it.) Not sure how this egg fits with the timing...I haven't seen any evidence of a swarm or any noticeable difference in traffic at the entrances, so thinking they disposed of her.

So then checked the Carniolan brood nest and found eggs and open brood, then found the queen on the third frame from the central excluder. The frame next to the excluder is entirely capped honey. I didn't check the other side of the brood nest, but last time I did the end frame was just capped honey and nectar, so her brood nest is only eight frames at most.

I decided to take out one of the frames that was mostly capped honey with brood along the bottom third and swap it with a frame of mostly empty drawn comb. This frame of brood I have put in the top super with a queen excluder underneath to see if they will make queen cells. (I have a couple of people asking for a hive.) So I then notched several areas of cells that had eggs and young larvae, using tweezers. The tweezers make it easy to pull out the bottom cell walls.

So we'll see if they successfully get any new queens...the Italian side has a queen cell. The top super on the Carniolan side has notched cells with eggs and very young larvae. The Carniolan queen's brood nest has a excluder on the side and above with only a small entrance at the base for Drones to get out. (14 frames to move around.) Hopefully any virgin queens won't get into that brood nest!

Matthew Davey


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

MattDavey said:


> The Italian queen is gone! No eggs or open brood, but still a lot of capped brood,
> 
> There was only ONE capped queen cell! Five queen cups, but there were all empty except one may have had a egg,
> 
> ...


Let us know if the virgin gets mated and begins to lay. I've seen it where a nuc on one side of the excluder tries to supersede their queen, and the virgin never makes it. I always assumed that because there is another queen on the far side of the excluder, the virgin isn't accepted.

Never say never.


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## MattDavey (Dec 16, 2011)

Another update. Checked to see if the Italian queen cell had emerged and found that it had (I had moved this frame up into the top Italian side super for easier access.) I haven't looked through the brood nest for eggs yet.

But looking through the supers I found a frame that I had moved up into a super in mid December had an emerged queen cell on it! Doh! I caused it! The virgin queen would have being the one who killed the Italian queen. Also, I had already removed a queen cell of this same frame, 10 days after I had moved it into the super. So I don't know how I missed this other queen cell. 

In regard to the frame I notched from the Carniolan queen, they have made one queen cell on one of the notches, and it is sealed. So I have moved this cell (in the four frame box it was in) and set up a Nuc.

Matthew Davey


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## MattDavey (Dec 16, 2011)

Update for those who are interested: 

After a couple of weeks I checked the Italian side and found another queen cell on the edge of a frame, in the middle of the old broodnest (which now was completely full of lots of capped pollen and honey). No other brood at all, no empty space, except around the edges. Just the single queen cell with a larvae that was just about ready to be sealed. I moved this frame up so I could check it easier.

I also checked the Carniolan side and saw the queen.

A week later I checked the queen cell and it was empty and starting to be torn down.

A couple of weeks later I checked the Italian side again and there was still no sign of eggs.

Since then I hadn't checked the hive until this Saturday.

The last couple of weeks I noticed a lot more young bees doing orientation flights in the later afternoon, but many of these bees have different markings, literally half the abdomen (back end) is Carniolan and the other half a light Italian marking.

So Saturday went into the hive, without smoke as usual, and they were MEAN. Also they had glued up everything with propolis. This is a totally different hive! They must definitely have a new queen. Looking like the virgin queen must have gone into the Carniolan side. I didn't get into the broodnest. So haven't seen what she looks like. But found a few frames up the top with decent areas of capped drone cells.

So it looks like I'll be getting them to make a new queen now!


The Nuc actually made two queen cells on the frame that I had notched. They now have a nice Carniolan queen that is laying like crazy.


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## chillardbee (May 26, 2005)

I have done this using a carni and itialin queen as well but the set up was different. I sat them up in april with the carni in the bottom super and the italian it the top two supers and there is is only one word to discribe that-PROLIFIC. By june the bottom box had no honey or pollen, just brood, and the italians lower box was 8 frames of brood and the top box was 6.5. It's no wonder that when the blackberries and clover flow turned on I did 7 standards of honey on her. But even the regular double queens are good too. I ran a lot of DQ's through the 90's but not so much in recent years since doing pollenation but now that I'm stepping back from pollenation and going back to honey production I might do a lot more DQ's again.


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## TNTBEES (Apr 14, 2012)

Is there any advantage to doing this set up with two new packages? Both carnies. Would a person be better off with just installing in two hives? Thinking about strength for next winter. Not worried about honey this year.


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Two queen hives can be a little tricky. If you only have 2 packages, run them as individual hives. Worry about the fancy stuff when you have mastered the basic stuff. I know of one commercial stationnary beekeeper who runs all his honey producing hives this way and he says most years it pays off to have 2 queen colonies but some years it is not worth the trouble.

Besides if you want two hives for winter, start with two this spring.

Jean-Marc


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## TNTBEES (Apr 14, 2012)

I have seven hives. Just wanted to try something new.


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## trainwrecker (May 23, 2010)

thoroughly enjoyed this thread. i have a hard enough time tryin g to keep up w the hives i have, but may have to try this


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## MattDavey (Dec 16, 2011)

If starting with packages I would put in a partition and let them get to a few frames of brood each. Ideally they should be similar in size and amount of brood when merged. This is because the queen with the most brood is preferred, so when there are similar amounts of brood there is no obvious drift. Otherwise the queen who has less brood may not survive.

When wintering I would divide them again, as one queen may be left behind an excluder as the cluster moves to stores. Also again, preference will be given to the queen who starts laying first and the other one may not survive going into spring.


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

TNT: Go for it.I thought if these were your first two hives the benefit would not outweigh the risks. That is one nice thing about this hobby/profession, there are many things to learn, many methods.

Jean-Marc


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## MattDavey (Dec 16, 2011)

Now there's three queens!

A few weeks ago I found that there appeared to be two broodnests on the one (old Carniolan) side. One in the bottom box and one in the second super, with only two frames of brood in the first super that was in-between them. I didn't see any queens as they were still a big testy, so I moved the top (second) super to the other side to see if there were actually two queens.

Well they made queen cells in that box and today I saw the new virgin queen. She hasn't started laying yet.

The bees were much nicer today as the Autumn flow has started.

So I did a much thorough examination of the broodnest on Carniolan side. Well in the first super I found the old Carniolan queen (who is marked)! She is still alive!

Then in the brood box I found the other queen! She is definitely from the original Italian queen, as she is mostly an orange colour with only a bit of a black tip. So the two queens have been coexisting in the same boxes for up to three months.

I've now made another split and moved the Carniolan queen so she doesn't get killed. I prefer her workers!

Now that's the third split from this hive this season.


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## dirt road (Jan 4, 2011)

Thanks for the updates Matt. Very interesting thread.


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## MurrayK1 (May 10, 2014)

*Re: Two queen Long Hive*

Matthew, 

I've refrained from doing a double queen hive because of the obvious problems with the stack method. I'm going to build a double queen hive this year and have only a few weeks to do so. I noticed on your sight that you have pictures of you 3x10 frame long hive. Did you find that this worked better than the 2x10 frame long, with a "U" shaped brood, you did earlier? 

On the 2x10 hive you had mesh on the bottom of the super. (I've never been clear if upper three boxes were open inside so that the bees could move from the upper broods to the center super of that one. I'm assuming they would have to in order to lay up honey since there is mesh on the bottom. Please verify or correct me if I've misunderstood. 

Now on the 3x10 if I understand properly, over the brood box you put two supers in the center with a short lid on each side. I assume that you also have a screen dividing the brood box to keep your queens apart. When do you put the 1st super on and is this after you remove the screen, once there are 3 frames of brood on each side?

Thank you,
Kathy


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## MattDavey (Dec 16, 2011)

*Re: Two queen Long Hive*

Hi Kathy, the 3x10 long hive has worked well. I have a vertical queen excluder in the middle of the hive. It's just like a follower board with a rectangle hole in it and half a queen excluder stapled to it. So each queen has 15 deep frames each. You can just super each side as you would a normal Lang hive. I do not remove the queen excluder most of the season, but replace it in late Autum (fall) to separate the two sides over winter.

One on side I could still get access the brood frames. On the other side they back filled the outside frames and I had to take off the super to get to the brood nest later in the season.

With the U shape Broodnest in the 2x10 box they actually got into the middle super via the 10 frame width lid, because the sides were 4 frame boxes.

Michael, in the 3x10 hive I've had them supersede a queen on one side while there was a queen in the other side. There were honey frames between the two broodnests.


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## MurrayK1 (May 10, 2014)

*Re: Two queen Long Hive*

Matthew, 

I greatly appreciate your thorough reply. I'm fairly new to beekeeping, only a few years and up to 4 hives this year. You've stirred a few more questions that need answering before I'll know exactly what to do. 
1. Even if it weren't more productive as a two queen hive, the long hive would be worth it to save labor, and my back, but I'd like to know if the honey yield truly is considerably more using the long hive with 2 queens vs. either a 1 queen hive or the 2 queen stack hive? 
2. I noticed on the 3x10 hive you have bottom entrances. Which do you recommend, the top as on the 2x10 or the bottom as on the 3x10 long hive? In my thinking the top entrances would same time when they are laying up in the supers? Or is there another reason to keep them on the bottom?
3. I noticed on your 2x10, your cover is at a slant. Why is this? and is there an inner cover needed? Is the cover of the 3x10 slanted as well?
4. Would you consider putting a thin, slide out, "white" board above the bottom board for mite control; good idea or not?
5. Have you written down any plans for making your 3x10. If so, will you share them? :~) If you have and don't want to share them, I understand. Please don't feel obligated. It would just be a real time saver for me, seeing I'm only weeks from receiving my bees.

Thank you so much, Matt,
Kathy


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## MattDavey (Dec 16, 2011)

*Re: Two queen Long Hive*

1. I have not used a 2 queen stacked hive, but the 2 queen long Lang has definitely produced a bit more honey than two individual hives.

2. There are both top and bottom entrances. The top entrances are in the lids. Air flow is better if it is vertical.

3. The slant on the 2x lids was on the inside of the the lid. I don't think it made much difference other than to help drain condensation. The 3x doesn't have this. There are hive mats on top of the frames to stop comb being built above the frames. The hive mats are simply a piece of vinyl flooring cut so that there is a 1 inch gap both front and back.

4. We don't have problems with mites so have not used a 'white' board. The bottom of the hive does slide out (sideways), so that it can be cleaned. No reason that you couldn't add a shim with mesh on it above that.

5. In terms of plans, it is really no different than making a standard hive, just the width is 3 times longer.

The legs are made in a 'H' shape looking from the side. So the hive just sits in the top of the two 'H' shaped legs and is screwed on front and back. The bottom of the 'H' has extra wood on inside of the legs to help support the weight on the cross bar.

The lids are simply a sheet of Marine grade plywood with shims. The front shim is not as high, so there is a bee space directly next to the plywood. This allows the entrance to be reduced or closed off if needed. Put a ventilation hole or two at the back of the lid as well.

The lids are what took the most time to make. See here for more information: http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...urpose-Hive-Lid-Base-with-Top-Bottom-entrance


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## MurrayK1 (May 10, 2014)

*Re: Two queen Long Hive*

Matthew, 

Thank you again. Only two more simple questions. 

1. How do you keep rain from getting in the hive with the split top pieces?
2. I'm afraid that I cannot tell how you've made the bottom board to slide in. Do you have a picture? or simple explanation?

If you don't mind I'm going to make some modification suggestions. Please feel free to shoot them down if for any reason you think they are not good. I'd like to know. 

1. Instead of using a rigid board on top of the frames, I'd use duck cloth (the same material bee suits are made of). That way if you lift off, say three pieces from one end, you can simply flip the cloth out of the way instead of removing the whole board. 

2. I'd make the hive a little longer to accommodate feed the bees in the spring. Here is a video that would basically explain what I'd do. The video is 15 min. 37 seconds long. If you fast forward to 14 mins. 16 second mark, you'll see what he did. I would use larger jars though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4qvPZaOXFo 

3. Oh, the most important question: are there any modifications that you would make on the next one?

I'm very excited about making your hive. I'm in Alaska and I know of no one that is using anything like what you've made. Everyone I know is using the stack hive method. 

Thank you,
Kathy


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## MattDavey (Dec 16, 2011)

*Re: Two queen Long Hive*

Kathy,

1. Unfortunately I have had to use a sheet of plastic over the top of the hive held down with bricks. The bees will propolize the gaps after a few days or so though.

2. It's not how I originally intended. The plywood base is just not attached and I can slide out the two bars holding it in place. Then slide out the plywood.


1. The hive mat is not rigid. It is soft and flexible also called linoleum. Others use old animal feed bags.

2. Up to you. I do not feed the bees unless the bees have run out honey in a dearth. I feed using zip lock bags.

3. The base should instead have a 1" shim, front and back with entances in the front and a plywood base. Hinged side shims that can fold down. Then a sheet of plywood placed of top of the other plywood sheet which can be slid out.


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## MurrayK1 (May 10, 2014)

*Re: Two queen Long Hive*

Matthew, 

Thank you!!! You've been very helpful. 

Kathy


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## MurrayK1 (May 10, 2014)

*Re: Two queen Long Hive*

Dear Matthew,

Thought you'd like to see what I ended up with. I now have my long hive made. I'll be painting it next week. 

The lid has a 1" piece of R5 foam for insulation sandwiched in between the boards. The bee entrances have different size blocks made slightly beveled to wedge the hole snugly. The brood sits on the bottom board and is removable. 


























I'll have two foam dividers creating a small brood area in the center, narrowing the brood to about 9 frames, with a screened divider in the middle of them to separate the queens. these can be removed later and expanded out as they need the room and require less insulation. I will sit three brood boxes on top of the inner covers, with the center on used for a feeder until nectar begins to flow. The lid will fit on top of those. When it's time to place supers, I'll use three, starting off with only the center one accessible for laying up nectar and expand from there. 

Kathy


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## MattDavey (Dec 16, 2011)

Looks good Kathy.

The only comment is that I would have a few ventilation holes in the back of the roof. I need to do it here at least, because we have a wet winter. Ventilation works best vertically.


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