# finding new bee yards



## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

When you get to the point where you need to find new bee yards outside of your own property, how do you multi-yard beeks go about finding them, assuming that you can't locate any bees on property of people you know personally (relatives, friends, etc.)? I would think that finding locations and getting permission from farmers probably isn't that difficult, but I really don't know because I've never had to do it. What are the methods you use to find new yards? Thanks, John


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

join the farm bureau, put add in shopper to give free honey for locations. stay away from houses. the more isolated with good dry access the better. word of mouth. give finders fees. hardest is to beat on doors.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

When you are driving to work or church or wherever, see every open space as a possible beeyard. When you see a spot you like, for whatever your criteria is, find out who owns the property and go knocking on doors w/ a honeybear in hand. Keep asking. Someone will say yes.

If you have a Diner in your area where farmers hang go there for breakfast yourself and ask the waitress who you should talk to. When you find the farmers, buy a coffee round and see if you can find someone who would like to have some hives on their property. Farmers know what's going on w/ bees and how important they are.

You'll be swamped before you know it.


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## jamesjr (Feb 18, 2011)

I didn't have property, so I went to a few local farmer's markets and asked a few if they would like bees. Didn't take long.


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## libhart (Apr 22, 2010)

When asking permission, provided you can find out who owns the property and an address, I really like sending a letter in good old fashioned snail mail. Describe where you'd like to put it, how you'd like to access it, how many hives you plan to have there, etc. Offer to answer any questions, give a number to contact you. This will give the owner a chance to think of questions he/she may want to ask or do any other checking that he might have to do (many farmers lease fields to still other farmers) and then get back to you on their time instead of putting them on the spot by knocking on a door or calling out of the blue.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Not a bad idea, but circular files are too easily used. As in sales, face to face is most effective and hardest to turn down.


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

These are lots of good ideas for me to consider, I'm getting more hopeful that using these suggestions will land me a few good spots. Keep the ideas coming, thanks.


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## libhart (Apr 22, 2010)

sqkcrk said:


> As in sales, face to face is most effective and hardest to turn down.


Definitely in sales...but I don't want to have bees on someone's property where the owner felt pressured in any way to let me have them there. I want the property owner to be completely comfortable with the arrangement and the bees. If he's not, then that's fine, I'd rather move on and have them somewhere else.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I never asked a person face to face who was pressured. I don't know what I could do or want to do to pressure someone to allow me to usse their property. People are glad to have bees or they say no thanks.


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## Grant (Jun 12, 2004)

All but one of my yards was at the request of the landlord. I've been propositioned, uh, I mean, offered space to "put a few hives" on various farms (most have no idea where or how many hives works). Very few of these opportunities have commercial purposes requiring bees. People around here WANT bees on their farms and a lot of them like to help an enterprising young man succeed.

Almost all of my invitations came from selling honey at farmer's markets. I've got about ten people on a waiting list for this spring. SPOILER ALERT! Not all places are ideal and a few of them won't produce any honey.

Grant
Jackson, MO


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## Buffalolick (Jan 26, 2010)

Once word gets out that you're a beek you will be flooded with requests for hives. My advice is to be picky. Im thinking of shutting down a couple of yards. Inconvenience being the main reason. What good is a beeyard you dont check? If word of mouth is too slow decide where is an ideal location and go ask. Worst they can do is say no


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

I'm like Mark. I look at everything in terms if it would be a good yard. When I see a spot in a desired location, I locate the owner and ask face to face. I'm pretty picky and have turned down many requests for bees.


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## [email protected] (May 12, 2010)

Knocking on the door works well, after a while you the word gets out and they call you. I always find out whether or not there are other large yards in a one mile radius before setting up a yard. You can get that information from you bee club.


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

Craig's list has been mentioned, what category do you place you post?


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

I have successfully scored yards from craigslist in multiple states. I always place my ads under the farm forsale section with a subject line of FREE HONEY. That really gets folks attention. Then I throw down all my requirements for the free honey they will get to keep. I have turned down lots of yards due to pickiness Cam described above. 

You cant use every yard like you can have everyone for a customer.

You know I like driving around and talking to farmers too if I have time. I have never had a farmer turn me down.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

First, I would suggest you get in touch with your state bee inspector. Does MI have an inspection program? If they will make the information available to you, find out where other apiaries are located and plot them on a map...like the Delorme atlas/gazeteer maps now available for every state. Circle areas on the map that are 2 miles away from any commercial yards, or yards of more than 10 or 15.

Then go for a drive. We used to look for silos, but maybe not such a good idea anymore with all the agricultural chems now used on farms and all the corn out there. I always liked old house sites where the house is long gone. There's usually a hard road into the site and good wind protection from the brush and trees that have grown up. Keep your eyes open in those areas for forage. Once you have located some possibilities, ask the landowner.

I found it's better to find a good possible location, with forage, road in, and in a place they aren't going to be a problem for the neighborhood or the farm...and then go ask.


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## beyondthesidewalks (Dec 1, 2007)

Everyone is mentioning farmers and farms. You really need to be picky about putting your bees near large scale agriculture. Think row crows are bad, pasture is good. Row crops, especially cotton in my area, are horrible for bees. They use pesticide and other chemicals all season long. We have a state run mandate called the Texas Boll Weavel Eradication Program. They set little traps around cotton fields and check them all season for weavels. If they catch any they will spray several times a year with absolutely no regard for foraging bees. I know the law is on our side but try to win that war with a state agency. It doesn't work well.

Pasture on the other hand typically goes untreated and has a large diversity of flora. Flat land is better row crop territory and hilly, hard to plow terrain makes for better pastures.

I have people offer to let me put bees on their property all the time. I always take them up on it by putting swarms traps on their place. If nothing else, I'll use that location as a temporary spot to put hives I want to move.


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

Do folks find that tree farms are good locations? I'm talking tree farms - not orchards. Do trees in a tree farm get sprayed a lot?


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## bison (Apr 27, 2011)

What is a fair split of honey production to offer the landlord? I am considering a request to locate a substantial number of hives on my property and would like an idea of the going rate. 10%? 20%?


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

50-50 as long as you give the beekeeper 200 dollars a hive plus you do all the work and extract the honey and bottle it. to be real you may have to settle for a gallon of honey for the location.(not per hive)


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

bison said:


> What is a fair split of honey production to offer the landlord? I am considering a request to locate a substantial number of hives on my property and would like an idea of the going rate. 10%? 20%?


Decide what you are willing to pay in honey for a particular location, or all of your locations, and stick to that amount no matter what the yard produces. What % would you pay a landowner if a yd didn't produce anything one year? If you tried to pay a landowner X% of nothing they won't be glad about it.

I had one landowner this year who offered to pay me for the honey I took him for yd rent. He had heard from a mutual friend what a crappy year it had been productionwise.


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

BMAC said:


> I have successfully scored yards from craigslist in multiple states. I always place my ads under the farm forsale section with a subject line of FREE HONEY. That really gets folks attention. Then I throw down all my requirements for the free honey they will get to keep. I have turned down lots of yards due to pickiness Cam described above.
> 
> You cant use every yard like you can have everyone for a customer.
> 
> You know I like driving around and talking to farmers too if I have time. I have never had a farmer turn me down.


What are your requirements?
How much honey do you give?


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## stripstrike (Aug 29, 2009)

BMAC said:


> You cant use every yard like you can have everyone for a customer.
> 
> You know I like driving around and talking to farmers too if I have time. I have never had a farmer turn me down.


I drove around farms and farm stands last year and dropped off cards at two locations I thought looked good. Both farmers called me back and were interested to the tune of 36 hives between them for this spring. Both got a different "price" in exchange but both wanted honey to sell at their stands and markets. 

Some free pounders and their "own" honey opens doors and land pretty good I found.


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## StevenG (Mar 27, 2009)

Re: Rent, I give 4 quarts per yard, no matter how many hives. And if I get no crop of honey from the location, I still give 4 quarts to the owner... good will trumps everything else... and next year might be a bumper crop there. 
Regards,
Steven


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

beyondthesidewalks said:


> Everyone is mentioning farmers and farms. You really need to be picky about putting your bees near large scale agriculture. Think row crows are bad, pasture is good. Row crops, especially cotton in my area, are horrible for bees.


Beyond makes an excellent point. I DO NOT put my bees on any row crop anywhere less I am being paid to do so by the farmer. The farms I look for are horse, and beef farms where the primary crop is hay. I never had a problem having them on hay fields. I don't particularly care for pastures as you have gates to contend with in my part of the country.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

bison said:


> What is a fair split of honey production to offer the landlord? I am considering a request to locate a substantial number of hives on my property and would like an idea of the going rate. 10%? 20%?


I pay 1 lbs per colony less my needs dictate otherwise. I treat my loading yards differently.


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## Russ (Sep 9, 2001)

Something that hasn't been mentioned is stay away from crop areas where there is a possibility of Spraying is likely to happen. I keep hearing different fellows say that they have lost hives due to Spraying of crops. Also Corn now carrys the Chemical that Bayer got banned in Europe.


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## the kid (Nov 26, 2006)

first 2 months I had bees , I had 2 that wanted hives ,, went to a store and asked for pails cause I wanted to start making wine , in talking to the girl , I said I had bees . when I went in to get the pails , she asked if I wanted to put one or more hives on her property ,, the next pails I went to get , her dad was bent that I should put hives on his farm , he wanted to have up to 10,, daughter nor dad wanted honey ,, I now have about 6 places to put hives for sure , and a few more that are thinking about it .... but I only have 4 hives and I want them at home ,, hope to get more but that takes MONEY ,, so time will tell ... I have talked to other bee keeps that can not find any one that wants hives on there property ..


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## dannyidp (Jun 10, 2010)

I'm guessing from what I am reading that you guys are not familiar with Monsanto UMM If it is a row crop it don't matter whether they spray are not your bees are at a risk.Monsanto has genetically modified the seeds so that when they put out pollen that anything that feeds on it will die. the corn it self is classified as a pesticide but don't take my word for it watch this www.thefutureoffood.com 


A government that can give you everything you want can take away everything you have!


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

libhart said:


> Definitely in sales...but I don't want to have bees on someone's property where the owner felt pressured in any way to let me have them there. I want the property owner to be completely comfortable with the arrangement and the bees. If he's not, then that's fine, I'd rather move on and have them somewhere else.
> 
> 
> > You equate sales/selling w/ pressure, I equate face to face yard requests w/ reciprocity. When I hand someone a Honeybear, a gift, and ask them if they would mind me using a spot of their land they already have a good feeling because of the present. Most people will reciprocate by at least considering the idea. sometimes they suggest an alternate location which turns out better.


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

I like that way of looking at it!
I'm getting some leads now and just looking at it as a way to get to know the community.
Most people are very friendly and really hate to say no. It's much different than asking for permission to hunt.


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

I am just starting to look for a couple locations for hives for this year, I took someone's advice and tried putting a request in craigslist a couple weeks ago, so far no replies there. May come down to going door knocking with honey bear in hand like sqkcrk suggested. John


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

What was your craigslist request like? I know a good bee yard like I know porn, uh, I mean ART. I know it when I see it. I don't think a landowner would know what I need well enuf .


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

Mark, I was pretty specific about what I was looking for in my ad, was looking for a semi-rural to rural location, the site needed to be in an area of the property away from homes, secluded from visability(to discourage vandalism) and accessible by a vehicle. I know a good area when I see it too, but at this point I will have to analyze each location individually as they are presented to me if anyone responds back. John


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Thanks John. Sounds like a good starting point. I hope you find what you are looking for.


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## ryanbekke (Feb 2, 2012)

John, I went and talked to an ordinary corn farmer that lets us hunt deer on his property. Then I told him that we were looking for a place to put some beehives. He was more than willing to let me set up my hives on his land. I am sure that the hives will bennefit both him and I, and he was almost more excited about it than I was. I went down the other day just to confirm our plans for this spring and his wife said that he was'nt home but he had been talking about it since december. So She had him call me on the phone.

When he called he said "


If you can't find a place down there on the creek bottom where you deer hunt that will work, I have plenty of other places and we'll make it work." and even offered to help set the things up.


So with that in mind, I am sure that there are many other farmers that are as nice as he is, that would be glad to help a beekeeper out.

He was the first and only farmer that I have talked to so far.

Hope this will help.


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

ryanbekke, I think you're right, there are probably many farmers who would not mind having some hives around, just have to ask, all they can say is yes or no, I'm guessing more yes's than no's. I did get a couple locations recently. The parents of my daughters friend have 6 acres out in farm country, and I have already set up a location there for about 15 hives. And those people know a farmer a couple miles down the road who said I can set up hives on his property, so things are starting to come together. John


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## DLMKA (Feb 7, 2012)

I've had good luck with craigslist, of course, I'm only looking at placing 2 hives (for now).


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## DPLONG (Feb 21, 2012)

I've got more offers of places to put hives this year than what I'll have in hives in the next five years. I'm gonna do my best to fill them all. Find yourself a farm and I bet once the word spreads more people will come to you. That's how it went for me. I've even had to explain to a couple farmers that my bees will still pollinate their crops even though the bees are at their neighbors. Seems like everybody wants bees. I might have to start charging.


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## geebob (Apr 4, 2011)

BMAC said:


> I have successfully scored yards from craigslist in multiple states. I always place my ads under the farm forsale section with a subject line of FREE HONEY. That really gets folks attention.


This worked well for me. I posted under the category of "For Sale: Farm+Garden" and had a number of replies within a week. My biggest problem is that I'm still playing catch-up from this crazy Spring and haven't had a chance to visit any of the yards yet.


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## ryanbekke (Feb 2, 2012)

Good deal, I am glad it is working out for you as well.


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## Mrobisr (Mar 10, 2012)

dannyidp said:


> I'm guessing from what I am reading that you guys are not familiar with Monsanto UMM If it is a row crop it don't matter whether they spray are not your bees are at a risk.Monsanto has genetically modified the seeds so that when they put out pollen that anything that feeds on it will die. the corn it self is classified as a pesticide but don't take my word for it watch this www.thefutureoffood.com
> 
> 
> A government that can give you everything you want can take away everything you have!


Danny,
I cannot agree with you on any part of your post and would really appreciate it that you come to the table with facts and not scare tactics. First Monsanto doesn't put out anything out that kills all insects! If they did trust me corporate farms would have all of it planted and all of our bees would be dead around corn, milo. or cotton growing country. They do have basically two types of corn, milo, and cotton and then a combination of the two. One is round up ready which means that the HERBICIDE will not kill the corn has nothing to do with insects. Two they have a Bacillus Thuringiensis (BT) plant that will not hurt any of our bees it is highly selective. When I say highly selective it will only kill caterpillars and leaf chewing worms. This is a description of BT on a organic website "It also is considered as perfectly organic as a treatment when applied and is a natural choice for controlling leaf-chewing worms". They do have a combination of the two that allows the control of weeds and chewing insects of the above description, but NOT bees. You will say that I am a salesman, but no I simply have bees and Monsanto corn planted and it works for bees and me. I will not argue you about whether the grains are good or bad for humans, but the bees don't eat grain so they will be fine and mine are doing just great.


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## DPLONG (Feb 21, 2012)

Mrobisr said:


> This is a description of BT on a organic website "It also is considered as perfectly organic as a treatment when applied and is a natural choice for controlling leaf-chewing worms". They do have a combination of the two that allows the control of weeds and chewing insects of the above description, but NOT bees. .


The funny thing is organic farmers do not use genetically modified seeds and are not permitted to. That's a whole different ball game. Your quote about BT does not apply to GM crops and I can almost promise you that it was never intended to. I'm not here to argue which I see all too often on this site. The quote about bees not eating grain...that's funny, I don't think anybody will ever say or have ever said that bees eat grain. Have you seen the recent study by Purdue? Maybe it's just a scare tactic. That fact the GM crops are being banned all over the world is enough for me to believe that they are bad. Here's the abstract for the study.

ABSTRACT

Multiple Routes of Pesticide Exposure
for Honeybees Living Near Agricultural Fields

Christian H. Krupke, Greg J. Hunt, Brian D. Eitzer, Gladys Andino, Krispn Given

Populations of honeybees and other pollinators have declined worldwide in recent years. A variety of stressors have been implicated as potential causes, including agricultural pesticides. Neonicotinoid insecticides, which are widely used and highly toxic to honeybees, have been found in previous analyses of honeybee pollen and comb material. However, the routes of exposure have remained largely undefined. We used LC/MS-MS to analyze samples of honeybees, pollen stored in the hive and several potential exposure routes associated with plantings of neonicotinoid treated maize. Our results demonstrate that bees are exposed to these compounds and several other agricultural pesticides in several ways throughout the foraging period. During spring, extremely high levels of clothianidin and thiamethoxam were found in planter exhaust material produced during the planting of treated maize seed. We also found neonicotinoids in the soil of each field we sampled, including unplanted fields. Plants visited by foraging bees (dandelions) growing near these fields were found to contain neonicotinoids as well. This indicates deposition of neonicotinoids on the flowers, uptake by the root system, or both. Dead bees collected near hive entrances during the spring sampling period were found to contain clothianidin as well, although whether exposure was oral (consuming pollen) or by contact (soil/planter dust) is unclear. We also detected the insecticide clothianidin in pollen collected by bees and stored in the hive. When maize plants in our field reached anthesis, maize pollen from treated seed was found to contain clothianidin and other pesticides; and honeybees in our study readily collected maize pollen. These findings clarify some of the mechanisms by which honeybees may be exposed to agricultural pesticides throughout the growing season. These results have implications for a wide range of large-scale annual cropping systems that utilize neonicotinoid seed treatments.


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## hilreal (Aug 16, 2005)

You are confusing several issues here. GMO is not what the Purdue article is about. It is about seed applied insecticides which are designed to kill insects during the seed establishment phase of crop growth. It is systemic and translocates into all of the plant. Evidence is still pretty sketchy and circumstantial that it is causing problems to bees. 

You commnent about GM being banned all over the world is a bit broad and generally not true. A high percentage of the grain grown in the world is contains GM traits. As a beekeeper I am thankful every day for GM traits like BT. Tons and tons of insecticides that were sprayed just a few years ago are no longer used on grain crops. Our planet is much safer now than before. The gene inserted (BT) is a naturally occuring chemical and is used widely by organic and natural farmers. If you've eaten organic produce you have been exposed to considerable amounts of BT and unless you are a mutant with an alkaline gut it isn't going to harm you. There are some other chemicals approved for use on organic produce that are much more dangerous. Having worked in agriculture for many years I refuse to eat organic produce!


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## Mrobisr (Mar 10, 2012)

Thank you hilreal I have been at work all day and was dying to say what you did, but can only read and not post. Neonicotinoid and all the insecticides that are in that family are applied to nearly every seed in the world except certified organic. Honestly the science is still up in the air on Neo insecticides, but we will see how that all works out. Several studies showed cell phones, ipads, and tablets are causing bee problems, so lets all throw them in the trash. Organic insecticides are just as deadly as the others make no mistake about it, but hey drink it it's organic, lol. Due to round up ready crops I use way less fertilizer (less run off) and plant less acreage (less erosion) to feed my stock and to me that is very much a win win situation. My personal garden is organic, but when it comes to farming large scale organic is a joke unless you like losing money or can sell your crop as organic and sorry I can't.


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## DPLONG (Feb 21, 2012)

The important part is that we keep bees and we keep on keeping bees. I guess I should have been more clear with the GM crops being banned all over the world and limited it to the European Union where they started banning them over ten years ago, or maybe India. Or maybe the fact that in South American, where they have more species of maize than any other place on earth, are in severe danger of losing all those to GM species of corn and the patents that come with it. The large percentage of grains in the world that are genetically modified are grown right here in the united states. I choose not to grow GM crops and not to support companies that use GM grains in their products, that is, for now, still the beauty of living in the great US of A. We can have different views, different opinions, different ways of doing things. I'm not saying either one is right and there's so much information on each side of this argument. I believe what I do and you can believe what you do, like I said in the beginning, as long as we all continue to keep bees and keep them alive is the only thing that matters. Since we are so far off the original topic of this thread, I will tell you this, I have one hive that goes crazy if I pull out my iphone to take a picture of them, the others don't care.


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## Mrobisr (Mar 10, 2012)

DP, 
I agree about the bees we have to have them! All I am saying is the we need to keep our minds open to this problem with our bees. Me personally I will stick with the agriculture universities more the harvard and perdue. As noted in the paper linked the problem persisted before this type of insecticide came to life. My bet will be a combination of parasites, virus, shb, insecticides, and various other parasites in combination. 
http://tais.tamu.edu/newsletter/pdf/February 2012 Newsletter.pdf


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## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

I just got permission to have a permanant yard where I can do what I please! How did I find it? I asked my friends on FACEBOOK!! Turns out that one friend I used to work for when I was a kid loves bees, infact, they have a feral hive in their house that has been there for as long as they have been there, which is over 15 years! I could only imagine all the swarms that thing has put off, or how many swarms have moved in?

Another cool thing, their daughter (who ive known since she was in diapers) is going to Penn St to get her masters in Entamology! 

I see expansion in my future!! Im one happy beekeeper that will be moving hives this weekend!!


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