# tylan shelf life.



## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

A neighborhood hobbyist I help out as two hives with AFB. I gave him some tylan mixed per direction but it has been in my freezer sealed for three or four years. After two weeks I don't see any progress. Do I need fresh tylan or up the dose?


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

Could it be efb?


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## B&E (Dec 27, 2011)

It would be pretty dumb not to burn them.


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

I don't know the shelf life either, should be an expiration date just like anything else does. Freezing it seems like it would prolong its useful life, but 3-4 years may be stretching it. I know that the label says to use it immediately after mixing it with the powdered sugar. Anyways, Tylan clears up AFB quickly when used on it. If it's not clearing it up, then it's either not AFB or the drug is too old to work properly. Burning is always an option, but I would be certain that you're dealing with AFB first.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

>Could it be efb? 
Where is your neighbor get their bees from?

There is a lot of EFB going around here, I would say more time than not problems with brood turn out to be EFB.
But there is also some AFB showing up lately too. South Africa is having a massive outbreak with AFB, wondering how long before it hits us.

It can even stump the experts? Randly Oliver was not sure what he had until he got the results back from the lab.

http://scientificbeekeeping.com/sick-bees-part-18a-colony-collaspse-revisited/

"So I sent samples off to the USDA Bee Diagnostic Lab, and wish to thank Sam and Bart for helpful discussion and a speedy turnaround so that I could make deadline for this article. *The samples came back positive for EFB.*

In the past several years, I’m seeing what appear to be two different forms of atypical EFB-like brood disease:

Syndrome 1:
•Larvae prior to propupal stage turning bright corn yellow, usually remaining in the “C” shape without much twisting. I’ve heard of this same symptom from many beekeepers across the country.

Syndrome 2:
•A greater proportion of older, rather than younger, sick larvae in the combs, many of them capped over, and having sunken, perforated cappings. These older larvae often turn flaccid without twisting, and eventually melt down into strongly putrid-smelling goo (but with a very different odor than AFB)."


"Practical application: Some of these symptoms can be confused with those of AFB—*I was surprised *when I sent a very *similar-looking sample to the lab last season and it came back positive for AFB!* My quandary is that I wish to burn any AFB combs, whereas EFB responds well to the antibiotics oxytetracycline or tylosin (I hear anecdotally that OTC gives better control, plus has less chance of getting into the honey). A brood break, such as by making splits, may help as well. "


If you have any oxytetracycline (tylosin does not work on EFB) see what happens while your waiting for the results from the lab. Which I am going to urge you to send to the lab.

Also post pictures if you can, it may help others.


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## KGB (Jun 25, 2014)

Vance,
A 3 day rule exists on the product once mixed when & stored at room temperature. I suspect freezing inactivates it (unsure), but certainly is old and can try new product if that is the route you're taking, or you are dealing with resistance.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

Tylan/tylosin usually just knock AFB down with one treatment and the next two are to complete the job. I treated some several years ago and it has just not been back. What is the source of this three day rule for the powder once mixed with powdered sugar. Does the powdered sugar deactivate the drug? I was hoping for some input from commercial beekeepers, that is why I posted in the Commercial forum and not in the treatment free forum. 

I do not think that I am dealing with EFB as the larvae are going to soup after being capped and not looking sick or looking half melted earlier. Since I am just helping someone I am reticent to buy new Tylan when I may not need it for years for myself.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Vance G said:


> A neighborhood hobbyist I help out as two hives with AFB. I gave him some tylan mixed per direction but it has been in my freezer sealed for three or four years. After two weeks I don't see any progress. Do I need fresh tylan or up the dose?


If what you are dealing with is actually AFB, you need to throw away the Tylan and use the box it came in as part of the fuel you use to burn the frames and scorch the boxes.

Why are you playing around trying to cure AFB with Tylan? Seems foolish from here.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

"I have never heard of a commercial beek that would react that way to a regular and real question." What are you referring to here, Vance G?


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

sqkcrk said:


> Why are you playing around trying to cure AFB with Tylan? Seems foolish from here.


Maybe because it kicks butt.

Back in the mid nineties before it was on the "general" market I used it after reading some research. I had bought out a very old outfit with very bad equipment. Cleaned up the AFB so well we did one dose and only had a few cases for the next 5 years. 

If i recall correctly its efficacy was hundreds of times that of TM at that point.

Confused by your question..... Is it me??


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

If you are offended I apologize, I was referring to the fact I posted this in the commercial forum where I might get informed opinion. I did not post it in the wishful thinking forums. I know several commercial beeks in this region who treat AFB by burning the heavily infected frames and combining the rest with there strongest hive which they claim normally cleans up the problem. Tylan is the real deal from my previous usage. I just want to figure out if my remnant antibiotic might be degraded enough to no longer work well.


sqkcrk said:


> "I have never heard of a commercial beek that would react that way to a regular and real question." What are you referring to here, Vance G?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Honey-4-All said:


> Maybe because it kicks butt.
> 
> Back in the mid nineties before it was on the "general" market I used it after reading some research. I had bought out a very old outfit with very bad equipment. Cleaned up the AFB so well we did one dose and only had a few cases for the next 5 years.
> 
> ...


I don't believe that using Tylan against active cases of AFB would be approved by our State Apiculturalist here in NY. I have never heard of it anyway.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Vance G said:


> If you are offended I apologize, I was referring to the fact I posted this in the commercial forum where I might get informed opinion. I did not post it in the wishful thinking forums. I know several commercial beeks in this region who treat AFB by burning the heavily infected frames and combining the rest with there strongest hive which they claim normally cleans up the problem. Tylan is the real deal from my previous usage. I just want to figure out if my remnant antibiotic might be degraded enough to no longer work well.


I was not offended. I simply didn't understand what you were referring to. Thanks for clearing it up for me.


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

There are those who burn everything, those who burn the frames and scorch the boxes, those who shake the infected hive out on new foundation in clean equipment, and those who treat. All can claim success with their method. I'm no expert on Tylan and AFB, but everything that I have read about Tylan says that it WILL clear up AFB, especially when dealing with resistance to Terramycin. I never heard of resistance to Tylan, has anyone?


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

I am Thank GOD not in NY and it is approved here.


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## joens (Apr 24, 2003)

The FDA approved tylan for treatment of AFB in honeybees in 2005 http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Animal...lDrugProducts/FOIADrugSummaries/UCM049532.pdf


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## KGB (Jun 25, 2014)

Vance G,
I apologize for the confusion caused by my first post. I was referring to mixing with water, it has a very short life span. I prescribe this a lot with a different species. The Tylan and generic tylosin sitting on my shelf right now has less than 18 month expiration dates. I was only trying to reinforce my suspicion of the product being too old.

As for resistance, it has always existed. Read a Tylan/tylosin label, and you'll see "for control of AFB", meaning it does not remove the bacteria (cannot ever kill a spore with antibiotic) from the hive, rather decrease th bacteria population to the point you don't notice the effects of the bacteria. Hence the alternative of burning the woodenware (remove the spores).

Cost should not be a huge factor, 100gm pkt. retails less than $45.

Again, I apologize for any problem/confusion I caused.


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## KGB (Jun 25, 2014)

joens said:


> The FDA approved tylan for treatment of AFB in honeybees in 2005 http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Animal...lDrugProducts/FOIADrugSummaries/UCM049532.pdf


NO-only labeled for CONTROL


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

Does CONTROL mean treating annually so that the AFB builds up a resistance to this antibiotic also? I finally got around to looking at my bottle of tylan in the freezer and its expiration date is 11/05/15 so it has not been the problem. There is no known resistant strains of AFB that can survive tylan. When I went to inspect the diseased colonies today after three weeks I expected to tell the hobbyist he needed a couple of heavy black trash bags and a walk to the dumpster the day it is picked up to go to the landfill. But much to my relief and satisfaction the tide has been turned. Both colonies are turning the corner and have a lot of healthy capped brood on formerly infected frames. One colony had some infected cells and I instructed him on how to get the bees to abandon it for brood rearing and to later destroy it. In case it does matter if you mix the three treatments all at once, I gave him the upcoming doses separated so he can mix them the days of treatment. Looks to me like we are on our way to a cure. I have warned him to mark the frames and keep them segregated for later disposal after the bees are out of them.


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## joens (Apr 24, 2003)

thanks for the update. I was curious how it turned out


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

It hasn't turned out just yet, it is just in the right direction. I will have to keep monitoring this thing for a year I imagine because the owner is pretty inexperienced. It might have been easier to have a fire, but I am curious.


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## high rate of speed (Jan 4, 2008)

Shelf life is one thing. I'm sure plenty are stocked up. Tylan is only being sold now with a vetranties prescription.. Just went into ordance about a month ago.good luck.


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## KGB (Jun 25, 2014)

high rate of speed said:


> Shelf life is one thing. I'm sure plenty are stocked up. Tylan is only being sold now with a vetranties prescription.. Just went into ordance about a month ago.good luck.


FDA rule goes into effect December 2016, don't panic yet...but will require a script.


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