# Pallet Most Often used by BeeKeepers



## Ezra (Jun 28, 2011)

Can you tell me the dimensions of the pallet most often used by beekeepers?

Is it 36" by 36" or 42" by 42" or ............

Thank You


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## ralittlefield (Apr 25, 2011)

I use what ever I can scrounge up for free. I do not know the dimensions, but they are larger than 36 by 36. What ever size that a ton of wood pellets comes on is what I have.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Most beekeepers don't use pallets. If you mean the dimension most hives are on, that would be 33"X47". It holds 4 hives.

Those who use Standard Wearhouse pallets use a pallet 40"X48". They hold 6 hives. If custom built, they are made a little larger each way so U clips work better and the outside edges of the outside hives have better support.

Are you thinking of building some pallets?


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## 35FromTown (Apr 18, 2011)

I am thinking about building some. Can you suggest best wood, any plans that are best for hive boxes / layout on pallets?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

3- 2X4s, 2- 1x4s or 6s, 2 pieces of plywood for the deck, narrow pieces around the edges the same size as the supers, W or U clips to hold the boxes on the pallet.

Some folks treat w/ preservative. Some folks use treated materials.

I don't have diagrams, but if you are going to build your own, I bet you can figure out what you need to do.

Set the boards on the bottom back away from the ends of the 2X4s about 2 to 4 inches. It'll make loading them on a truck easier. It'll make getting forks out of the pallet easier, especially when loading and reaching.

Galvanized nails on boards on bottom. Staples can be used on decking.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

If you want to use treated lumber you should ask your local lumber yard if they have culls for cheap. PT is so crappy these days 10-20% gets sent back to the yard (by me anyway) as unusable. No good for decks, but fine for pallets if you are willing to wrestle it.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

If you can get concrete form board material, that is good stuf to use. The wooden boards have to be replaced every now and then, by the form owner. So, find a concrete form user and see if they will let you buy their discarded material.


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## twgreen3 (Aug 22, 2008)

I like the free ones.


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## Flyer Jim (Apr 22, 2004)

try these guys 

used pallet company 
4115 s orange ave fresno ca 93725 
(559) 264-2911

you can't build one for what they will sell you one
and its close to you

Jim


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## Mtn. Bee (Nov 10, 2009)

I am building mine out of reg. heavy duty shipping pallets. Ripping down one side to 4 hive dimension then re-nailing a 2x4 on that side, after that I attaching my plywood decks on top with decking screws.

This will make a disposable type of pallet: 
-Pallets are free, (save the $ for more bee increase or new bee truck)
-Don't plan on treating, (save the $ for more bee increase or new bee truck)
-When they rot or need replaced-unscrew decks and screw onto new pallet and use old pallet to heat my woodworking shop.
-Makes for a true 4-way pallet, since pallets have cut outs on the stringers, (can pick up pallet of bees from all for sides with my forks if needed)
-Will save on having to buy plywood only and maybe can get by with the cheaper thinner CDX, since it will already have a wood deck underneath it.
Just trying to use the advice from some of the comm. beeks: "Don't buy anything, make it if you can."

Best of Luck! Mtn. Bee


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## Katharina (May 2, 2011)

Go to your hardware store and ask if they have pallets they don't need. Most have tons and are happy to get rid of them.

I would only consider them, if I'm moving my bees around. Or for temporary locations. Otherwise they only invite mice into the hives. I use concrete foundation blocks with pressure treated fence posts laid across them. On top of that I place my hives. This gives me a foot of clearance from the ground. Ok, technically mice can still get up, but they cannot hide underneath.


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

Katharina said:


> I would only consider them, if I'm moving my bees around. Or for temporary locations. Otherwise they only invite mice into the hives.


I throw a block of outdoor mouse/rat poison under the pallets. Keeps the mice down quite well.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Mice can get anywhere. hiding doesn't do them any good if there is a predator. Hawks can spot them from 200' up or better in three feet of grass. Cats learn their habits and get them every time.

If you use pallets do they stay with the hives or are they just used for transport?


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

Acebird said:


> If you use pallets do they stay with the hives or are they just used for transport?


I move my hives by hand and dolly. No forklift yet. But I keep my hives on 2-3 pallets [I don't like bending too much]. I'm fortunate to have good yards where I can keep the pallets there, even when I'm off to pollination with some of the hives. Amazing what some free honey will do.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

By hand? Let me get this straight. You are picking up a hive placing it on a dolly (don't know how many on the dolly) dragging the dolly somewhere and off loading or loading on truck?


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

Actually I have a trailer and the hives are set at the same level of the trailer bed. I slide the hives onto the trailer. When I get to the orchard, I unload with a dolly and a ramp. I know it's old school but a lot cheaper than a Bobcat. Not that hard actually.


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## Mtn. Bee (Nov 10, 2009)

Acebird said:


> If you use pallets do they stay with the hives or are they just used for transport?


Yes, they stay with the hives.
The plywood on the pallets are actually the bottom boards for the hives (ie. no more individual bottom boards).
Most beeks attach 2 decks of plywood per pallet (each for 2 hives side by side with U or W metal clips) with a space in between the hive backs for the rim of the migratory covers and/or hive cleats.
Some beeks also make screened bottom pallets instead of the plywood.


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## Jim 134 (Dec 1, 2007)

This is the size of the pallets

http://www.meyerhoneyfarms.com/clips.html


BEE HAPPY Jim 134


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## 35FromTown (Apr 18, 2011)

Jim, what are the pieces on the corners, are the on the top or underneath side of the pallet? Are they for strength/gussets? I think I visualize it but can you show a picture with a hive or two on the pallet and how the clip attaches to the hive? 

I like the screened option for the bb part of the pallet as we use screened bbs now. If the ply decking is used as the bbs, how is the entrance issue resolved?


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Jim 134 said:


> This is the size of the pallets


I don't see anything that keeps the 1x3 from racking and falling flat during shipping. If there is no bottom tie or side brace I would go with 4x4 and not permanently mount them to the plywood. Storing would be a lot easier if the 4x4 is not attached. If that is not a concern than nail or staple away. Landscaping ties is another choice, cheap and treated for ground exposure.


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## Jim 134 (Dec 1, 2007)

Acebird said:


> I don't see anything that keeps the 1x3


Acebird.....
Where are the 1x3 :s


BEE HAPPY Jim 134


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I don't think I understand what you last two are asking about.

There are three 2X4X47 on edge parellel w/ each other. Two 1X3 or 1X4s span the three and are screwed or nailed or stapled to the 2X4s. This is the bottom of the pallet.

Then this is flipped over and two pieces of plywood are glued and screwed or stapled to the 2X4s. 

A thickness of rim is chosen to be what the supers of the hive will sit on. Usually finished 1X stock. Some people use the leftover plywood scrap.

A strip of the 1X3 runs down the center of the plywood directly above the center 2X4 and 4 W or U clips are installed on that center strip to keep the hive from sliding forwards or backwards when handled by a Loader.

The other three sides of the RIM are usually narrower than the center piece. The pieces applied to the edge of the pallet which one would consider the entrance sides make up the entrance to the hives. There are different ways of doing that so there is some distance between entrances. I actually saw some pallets which had entrances on all four sides of the pallets, one per hive.

Everything is screwed or stapled. I don't know what you think that will rack and fall. Using 4X4s adds needless weight to the load. The pallets already weigh about 40 lbs. Using 4X4s would make them much heavier. And they do get handled by hand too. But mostly it isn't necassary for usefulness and longevity.


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## Jim 134 (Dec 1, 2007)

Acebird..... You you carrying bees or wood :s

4 double hives high and remain under the height limit. 
Well on 4x4 keep you under limits :s And how about the weight limits :s On a semi load. 


BEE HAPPY Jim 134


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Acebird said:


> I don't see anything that keeps the 1x3 from racking and falling flat during shipping. If there is no bottom tie or side brace I would go with 4x4 and not permanently mount them to the plywood.


If not permanently mounted to the plywood, one couldn't move them w/ a loader. Maybe we are mixing migratory and nonmigratory beekeeping here.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Well I am pretty good at deciphering drawings if they are done correctly...
A side view shows a stick of wood 47 x 3. Three inch lumber is not a 2x4 so I assumed it was a 1x3. The side view does not indicate any top or bottom pieces so I assumed the 1x6 cross pieces were on the top along with the plywood.

Weight and height:
If you add the 1x6's and all the other non essential pieces two 4x4's or certainly two landscaping ties with no cross members will be lighter and thinner then the buildup that is shown in the drawing, along with Mark's description.
If these stay with the hives it is much easier to level a pallet if it doesn't have cross members on the bottom. It is also easier to load if there are not cross members for the forks to catch on or knock off covers on the lower stack of hives.
For an entrance why can't you drill a 2" hole in the plywood and cover it with 1/2x1/2 hardware cloth if you don't use top entrances. Is there any law that the entrance has to be horizontal?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Ace,
If you saw these pallets first hand you would understand them much better. I think this interaction is getting to be like the blind men and the elephant story. Maybe the "shop drawing" isn't the best one could do, but for those who have seen these pallets, it is a good guide.

One levels the whole pallet, sitting on the ground, by moving the pallet until sufficiently level. One often finds it necassary or convenient to "grab" the pallet w/ a fork by sticking one fork into the pallet against an outer 2X4 and sliding the pallet across the deck of a truck or across the ground a little ways. Were there no cross members on the bottom, this would be bad.

Cross members under the pallet are necassary and essential to make things hold together and to work properly.

You just gotta be there to really see.


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

Acebird said:


> Well I am pretty good at deciphering drawings if they are done correctly...
> A side view shows a stick of wood 47 x 3. Three inch lumber is nTot a 2x4 so I assumed it was a 1x3.


This diagram seems to be of the sort that assumes you already have a general idea of what a pallet is. I would be willing to bet that the 47 x3 is supposed to mean that there are 3 - 47" 2x4s.

Ever seen a Hard Molded Plastic Pallet? They look very tough and can be thoroughly steam cleaned, problem is they are very expensive... but supposedly last a very long time. One of the guys from around here that goes to CA uses them...says he never has a problem at the bug stations.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Hadn't seen the Meyer blueprint before. it is essentially what we use with a few changes. We just use a 1/2" setback on the plywood instead of 1" (perhaps 1" is better). I wouldn't feel comfortable with the 4 1/2" divider between the hives we like at least 8" separation. We drill a 3/8" hole in the back corners for drainage, it seems to be large enough to do the job. Also I would caution that something fairly rot resistant be used on the board that the clips are fastened onto, that can be a real weak point. Definitely in favor of using 1x6's and not a 1x4's on the bottom. I have set heavy pallets down on hard objects and had them break with a 1x4.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Jim,
I have some pallets that I bought or was given which have the clips recessed a bit so the hivebody sits down on the common board better than when W clips sit on top of that board. Do you do that too?

I wonder if Meyers ripped 2X6s to make their pallets. I have a cpl OLD pallets that have really shallow stringers. But Herb is probably correct. Three 47" pieces.

I'll have to go measure mine, but I think mine are not 47" long. They'd be running into each other more often, across the truck when loading. Pretty sure the two hives, from the side, are 3" apart.

I want to build some better migratory covers. Plywood sheets don't really do what I want them to. Even if they have been servicable so far, for quite a few years.

Does anyone have photos and plans for their Migratory Covers?


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

No we have a W sitting on top. The boxes don't quite sit flush but no prob. with bee leakage. Yeah I would assume they rip a 2x6. Guess folks would have to make their own choice there. Just do them all the same. Personally we use 2x4's and I really appreciate the extra 1/2" clearance. 
I sometimes struggle even getting into them in rough terrain and unless you are using a real thick lid you can still go 4 doubles high on a flat bed if necessary but really how often is that even necessary?


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## Jim 134 (Dec 1, 2007)

Acebird said:


> Well I am pretty good at deciphering drawings if they are done correctly...


DID you see the seale on the designed :s 1/8" about 1'' (2"x3"x47")

And what you going to use for a bottom boards :s 


BEE HAPPY Jim 134


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

jim lyon said:


> you can still go 4 doubles high on a flat bed if necessary but really how often is that even necessary?


You must have a skidsteer w/ a mast. I find loading 4 high story and a halfs scary enuf.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Ok . This should make it easy to understand. Look at the pics here from Jim Stevens. He put 4 1Xs on the bottom .I used two 1x6s, spaced as in the Meyer diagram.You will see variations in pallets used by different outfits. But this is the basic idea.

http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...ory-Pallets/page3&highlight=pallet+dimentions


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

I probably havent done it more than 2 or 3 times, and yeah you are right it is a bit touchy going that high regardless if you are going 3 on one or 2 on 2. Mast is definitely preferable as tilting that high can be a little nerve wracking. I just posted a picture (in the photo gallery) of a load 1 single and 3 doubles high on a flatbed, seemed really easy compared to going 4 doubles.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

And I suggested to use two 4x4's and no 1x6 on the bottom and you can drag it all day on a truck and it isn't going to roll out like a 2x4 will. Move the 4x4 in closer to the CG of the hives but not on the CG (maybe 6 inches) and turn the grain of the plywood the other way. Without the 1 by's on the bottom the pallets will last longer because it will not trap water and debris up against the 2x4's or as I suggested 4x4's. You can make the pallet lighter still if you run the 4x4 the other way but I don't know if that messes up the loading of the truck.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

loggermike said:


> Ok . This should make it easy to understand. Look at the pics here from Jim Stevens. He put 4 1Xs on the bottom .I used two 1x6s, spaced as in the Meyer diagram.You will see variations in pallets used by different outfits. But this is the basic idea.
> 
> http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...ory-Pallets/page3&highlight=pallet+dimentions


Nice construction on those pallets of Jim's but interesting that the 1x6's are placed so that the empty pallets can't be "nested".


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Ace, you should not be giving these pros all your good advice for free. With all your experience shipping palletized bees, these guys are hanging on every word you say and are going to profit big time from your advice.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

loggermike said:


> http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...ory-Pallets/page3&highlight=pallet+dimentions


Thanks Mike. A picture is worth a thousand Posts.

I like your Jig. I was wondering how to make one out of plywood and 2X4s, since I don't weld. But that looks so simple and handy to store, I could get someone to weld one up for me.

On your covers. Do you build them w/ a lip inside now, now that protein patty feeding has become so popular? What kind of wood are you using for your tongue and groove cover? And I bet, having deeps w/ cleats front and back keeps your from using them for honey supers?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Acebird said:


> And I suggested to use two 4x4's and no 1x6 on the bottom and you can drag it all day on a truck and it isn't going to roll out like a 2x4 will. Move the 4x4 in closer to the CG of the hives but not on the CG (maybe 6 inches) and turn the grain of the plywood the other way. Without the 1 by's on the bottom the pallets will last longer because it will not trap water and debris up against the 2x4's or as I suggested 4x4's. You can make the pallet lighter still if you run the 4x4 the other way but I don't know if that messes up the loading of the truck.


This is where you get into trouble w/ we who are commercial beekeepers. Don't go redesigning something you aren't going to use and something we do use, which has all the bugs already worked out of it. Your ideas won't find much welcome. A. Because none of what you have suggested fits what we do. and B. What we have already works.

I see what Jim means about the cross boards and the nesting. all of mine and most of the ones I have seen have the cross boards set back so they end up inside of the clips when empty pallets are stacked.

I also have friends who have covers built so when a pallet is stacked on top of an occupied pallet, the cross boards sit inside of a cleat on top of the cover, locking everything in place. Makes for a nice load, once it is loaded. Another place for a masted machine.

Do y'all find your covers are tight enuf so inside feeders don't become full of rain water?


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Mark, those weren't my pics, but were posted on here sometime back.I made my pallet jig by slapping some 2by4s on a sheet of plywood!
I thought you explained clip pallet construction rather well, but a picture is sometimes easier for those who never saw one.

I guess 4 1 bys makes a stronger pallet, but being able to stack them nicely is important too.

I use plywood for my migratory lids, with a cleat at each end .Some warp and bow anyway, so am always building extras to replace them and the ones that rot.

Seems i think about putting rims on the lids every year for sub and to feed some Drivert, but always seem to quit the idea for some reason. I have always fed the patties by breaking the boxes apart and putting it right in the cluster.

After building a bunch of pallets this summer, I'm with flyerJim on this one - USED PALLET CO!


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Oh, sorry Mike.

My pallets have two 1X4s on the bottom. Easier to set flat. I have seen some w/ 3, but they usually get cut down to two eventually.

I wondered about putting the patties down between the frames.

Somebody mentioned screened bottoms on palletized hives. I'm sure they are okay, until one sticks a fork up through one.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Sticking a fork through one is exactly what i would do. I dont see much advantage ,other than lots of ventilation when 
moving in hot weather.


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## Mtn. Bee (Nov 10, 2009)

sqkcrk said:


> Somebody mentioned screened bottoms on palletized hives. I'm sure they are okay, until one sticks a fork up through one.


 Sometime back someone posted some pics of some screened bottom pallets with a extra board to protect the screen from getting punctured by a fork.
If I can find it I will post it for you, I think the beek sent it to my email?!
I have also seen some pics of tops with the block of wood on top to keep the pallet on top from sliding around. ( I think they were on a website from a Idaho beek shipping his bees to the Almonds, I believe his name was Jack Terry of Idaho Honey?)

I also saw on his website a neat looking winter designed migratory cover that actually covered 2 hives at once on his 4-way pallets that seems like it would really keep the moisture out when using U-clips.
Anybody on here ever try that design before?


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## Ezra (Jun 28, 2011)

Flyer Jim said:


> try these guys
> 
> used pallet company
> 4115 s orange ave fresno ca 93725
> ...


Thank you Jim!


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## Mtn. Bee (Nov 10, 2009)

Found the info about the double covers: Click on bee yard

http://www.jackterry.net/honey/buy_honey.html


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Looks like they have the 2x4's going the other way. I wonder if they put the plywood grain in the right direction?


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> Somebody mentioned screened bottoms on palletized hives. I'm sure they are okay, until one sticks a fork up through one.


Slot the plywood so it acts like a slotted rack and the forks won't go through.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

What are you refering to? Which pallets have the 2X4s running the wrong way? And I don't understand what you mean about slotting the plywood.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Mtn. Bee said:


> Found the info about the double covers: Click on bee yard
> 
> http://www.jackterry.net/honey/buy_honey.html


I am referring to this link in the December scene. It looks like the 2x4's are going the shorter way not the 47 in way. If you slot the plywood so it lines up with the frames and then screen it you have created a slotted rack, no?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

No. Click on the photo so it enlarges and you will see that the 2X4s run parellel w/ the long sides of the hives, w, entrances on the ends, like most everybody elses.

Are you saying to cut slots in the plywood decking and cover w/ screen on the top side of the plywood?

The plywood deck is where the pallet is picked up by the forks of the loaders. Quite alot of strain can occur there. I don't understand what you are suggesting.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Yeah maybe you are right about the direction. At first look in the bottom photo it looked to me like it was going the other way.

I was envisioning the screen on the bottom of the slot, you are probably worried about the forks again but if you ground a chamfer on the top side of the tip of the forks it wouldn't pick up the screen.

Strain? You probably mean stress but here again if the forks are placed near the CG of the hives (where it should be) there is zero bending stress on the plywood. And you are only talking 400 pounds. That is like two grown men standing on the plywood. The plywood could handle that no matter where you put the forks.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Yes, stress. You see, it goes both ways sometimes. Thanks.

I'm not going to grind a chamfer into thehardened steel of my forks, so give us a different idea.

There are times when picking up pallets, sometimes empty ones, when the forks aren't all the way inside and flat against the bottom of the plywood. This is when plywood stress occurs.

My forks are 48" long. Sometimes reaching high and placing a pallet on the top row requires balancing the pallet so the bottom of the forks are against the outer cross brace and the tips of the forks are against the bottom of the plywood decking. Under such conditions no screen would hold up.

CG? Please translate? Thank you.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Acebird said:


> .
> 
> Strain? You probably mean stress but here again if the forks are placed near the CG of the hives (where it should be) there is zero bending stress on the plywood. And you are only talking 400 pounds. That is like two grown men standing on the plywood. The plywood could handle that no matter where you put the forks.


in application it is considerably more than that, it is quite common to handle up to 3 double pallets or 5 single pallets at a time, much faster and much easier to load the upper ones neatly that way. You must be careful to have the forks as close to parallel to the plywood as possible or it can easily splinter it. It is also not unusual to move a pallet with a large honey honey crop on all 4 hives, in either of these applications the lift could be well over 1000 lbs., possibly as much as 1500 lbs with tall stacks of pallets.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

As in when I dropped three 4-way pallets while unloading down South a cpl weeks ago. Obviously, in hindsight, an overload situation. My machines' capacity is 1100lbs on flat ground.

Jim, do you suppose Yogi was talking about a forklift fork? If I saw one of those "in the road", I'd "take it".


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

I am not saying you have to make a slatted rack out of the plywood deck. I just saying you can do it if you want to. Obviously if you did you would need the right equipment (fork length) so as not to punch through the deck. Grinding a chamfer on the tips of the forks is quite common so as not to delaminate the plywood so that is no big deal. It would be to your benifit to do it anyway. I could do it in a minute and a half if you want to stop by some day.
CG is center of gravity. Right placement on the forks with the right length fork = 0 bending stress on the plywood, I don't care how much weight you pick up. If you are doing something wrong or something you shouldn't be I can't help that.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Acebird said:


> Right placement on the forks with the right length fork = 0 bending stress on the plywood, I don't care how much weight you pick up. If you are doing something wrong or something you shouldn't be I can't help that.


Just my luck, I should have expected this with all the dysfunction in Washington DC. They went and repealed the law of gravity. If only I had known I could have saved a lot of money on pallet materials.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

jim lyon said:


> They went and repealed the law of gravity.


This must be a joke but it doesn't make sense to me.


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## swarm_trapper (Jun 19, 2003)

Acebird said:


> Right placement on the forks with the right length fork = 0 bending stress on the plywood, I don't care how much weight you pick up. If you are doing something wrong or something you shouldn't be I can't help that.


explain that to me some night at 1:00am when two pallets of bees are laying every where cause i "didnt pick it up right" Or better yet tell that to my pallets so they know these things, cause i dont think they ever learned this one in pallet school.


Ace one thing that you might not under stand that might help, is that the hives are not sitting flush on the pallets. They are sitting on a rim on the pallet so the deck that you are picking up in has no support other than the deck. All the contact with the pallet is around the edge. This is the reason you will have bending stress on your pallet. 

Nick


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Not if the forks reach within one inch of the edge. If the forks are short you risk dumping the pallet of hives and or punching through the deck. The bottom cross piece can easily rip out of the skid / pallet and the whole thing goes over. Bending stress should be in the harden steel forks not the pallet. If the forks aren't long enough get extender forks. If the machine isn't large enough get a bigger one. Taking chances isn't smart.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Ace you really just need to experience it before you try to "explain" why you are right. Within 1" of the outside? If only you would get to pick up a 100 pallets in tall grass in the dark perhaps it would be a bit clearer to you then there is the occasional stringer that has warped a bit and allows you to get in but not to pull back out when trying to back away from the truck. In addition there are stresses side to side that increase with wider placement of forks and stresses on the plywood that increase and stability loss with having the forks narrower. I have tried lots of different fork placements and it is always a trade off between stability and workable convenience. On rougher terrain I opt for a slightly wider placement. Its just not a perfect world out there loading bees.


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## Jim 134 (Dec 1, 2007)

jim lyon said:


> Its just not a perfect world out there loading bees.


 
:applause: :applause:



BEE HAPPY Jim 134


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## Ted Kretschmann (Feb 2, 2011)

Jim is right on with his statement. I have dropped a few pallets of bees in the middle of the night loading semi's. NOT GOOD!! So Ace I give you this advice, which is a repeat of some similar advice given earlier in the thread. I want you to build some pallets. Put bees on them. Move them around, even if it is on the back of a one ton flatbed. Then report back to all these professional, commercial beekeepers one year from now on your experience. You can not give advice to people that make a living moving bees, building pallets, pollenating crops, producing honey by the ton unless you have walked in their shoes. And they have DECADES doing so!!~ And Ace be sure you use the right type of pallet clips also when you build your pallets. I myself, use a four inch high hurricane clip because I can get them at Lowes or Home depot. But the standard bee pallet clip is the industry clip of choice. Ace, You should be listening and learning. Not trying to advice and teach these people, who can keep bees while sleep walking from years of experience. TED


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

jim lyon said:


> Within 1" of the outside? If only you would get to pick up a 100 pallets in tall grass in the dark perhaps it would be a bit clearer to you then there is the occasional stringer that has warped a bit and allows you to get in but not to pull back out when trying to back away from the truck.


Yeah, a marker, reflective tape, stop block, anything on the driver side of the fork to gage where the other end of the forks will be on a specific size pallet is all you need. Stringer? What stringer? You haven't been listening.

A bobcat was not designed to carry high CG loads through the woods. If you didn't have the stringers in the way you could mount 1 in to 3/4 plywood to the top of the forks for a wider setting and then you would have no trouble what so ever of punching through the deck or digging up the wood. You could even extend the forks a little, at least 6 - 8 inches with the plywood.

BTW when you travel over terrain you should reposition the load with the forks all the way in. You sure as heck do not want the load out on the end of the forks. You only do that so you can load the truck with a pallet of hives in the way of the forks if they were sticking out.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

You are out of your element. Stick to spray painting roofs and working on asphalt. None of us will tell you how to do that. We know how to travel across terrain w/ a load of palletized beehives. Which you have no experience doing. afaik

Stringer? The 1X4 or 6 on the bottom of the pallet.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

My son who is a teacher was lamenting to me last night how frustrating it is to teach those who have no desire to or feel they have no reason to learn. I can sympathize. Now I am reminded of why I must, unfortunately, return to my policy of not feeding the pigeons.


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

I can understand from the discussion why it would be best to use pallets specific to pollination because of the requirements of the task.

But, wouldn't it be fair to say that the pallets most used by beekeepers are the free-bees (pun)?

Aren't most beekeepers simply moving pallets of hives locally on flatbeds rather than loading pallets 3 or 4 high on drop decks?

Aren't there more honey producers than pollinators?


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## Barry Digman (May 21, 2003)

Just slightly off topic...

Where I live everything comes in on wood pallets. Nothing goes back out, so we have an abundance of pallets. I think some of them get returned but you can drive down any street or alley in the business districts and see them stacked up with a cardboard sign stuck on them that says "Free". They get used for firewood or who knows what else.

Is this the same in your community?


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

Plenty of free pallets in Midtown Manhattan.

I only started noticing because of the myriad of uses they can have in beekeeping.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Certainly everyone has their own requirements in a pallet. If it is just to get the hive off the ground, though, then I would suggest bricks or blocks are a good choice. If, however, your goal is to be able to move them whether it be for honey production or pollination then it is very important to have a well thought out and uniform pallet that allows for proper ventilation, stacks neatly and is easily secured. Any modifications from your original plan can quite easily magnify loading difficulties as you deal with larger loads. Just 1/4" difference in lid thickness in a 6 high load of singles can mean an inch and a half difference on your top edge which can result in a broken v-board or torn screen or worse yet an improperly secured load than can be a safety hazard on the road. I have done this enough to understand that uniformity greatly adds to efficiency, I have spent a couple hours trying to figure out how to secure an odd dimensioned semi load and I have also done it in under a half hour when things are straight and square. More often than not the time savings equates to additional sleep. My suggestion is to stay with something very close to the Meyer blueprint which is really the industry standard. It will not only make your hives more salable but make it much easier to share loads with other beekeepers if needed. If you are pretty sure that none of this would ever matter to you and your own ideas are better than this tried and proven design then folks are certainly free to build what they wish.


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## Mtn. Bee (Nov 10, 2009)

WLC said:


> But, wouldn't it be fair to say that the pallets most used by beekeepers are the free-bees (pun)?
> 
> Aren't most beekeepers simply moving pallets of hives locally on flatbeds rather than loading pallets 3 or 4 high on drop decks?
> 
> Aren't there more honey producers than pollinators?



_I would say there is just as many pollinators as honey producers and a lot of them do both!
One thing for sure is that the pallets of bees are definitely greater in number for the comm. pollinators than the honey producers.
There are lots of very large 5,000-15,000 + comm. pollinator operations out there, can think of several in Idaho alone and all of these beeks are loading flatbed trucks and semi's with special built bee pallets like pictured above!
_






Ted Kretschmann said:


> Ace, You should be listening and learning. Not trying to advice and teach these people, who can keep bees while sleep walking from years of experience.
> TED



_AMEN to that!
Thank you TED!_


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

A shipping pallet has little in common with a pallet used to move bees... whole different critter.

I would think that there would be more pollinators than pure honey producers. Actually I do not know of anyone who is commercial who only produces honey. I am sure they exist.... guess Sqtcrk comes as close as anyone.


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

http://www.jackterry.net/honey/nov/november.htm

I took a look at this page featuring a 'stock built' forklift.

Do you find that you had to build your own forklift for your operations, or if there a preferred 'brand name' forklift for moving pallets in beekeeping?


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## Mtn. Bee (Nov 10, 2009)

hpm08161947 said:


> A shipping pallet has little in common with a pallet used to move bees... whole different critter.
> 
> I would think that there would be more pollinators than pure honey producers. Actually I do not know of anyone who is commercial who only produces honey. I am sure they exist.... guess Sqtcrk comes as close as anyone.


Totally Agree!
I stated earlier in this post about refabing shipping pallets into bee pallets and this is because I am a small fry sideliner that just produces honey, queens, and nucs.
I have a old 77 ford 1 ton and a skidsteer to move my bees to my outyards for honey production.
Still experimenting with equip. and etc. to see what works best for ME and my operation.
I see and know why the big boys use what they do and I definitely agree with Jim Lyon that uniformity is the way to go.
I have also learned over the years that keeping things simple definitely will save on time and make your operation run a lot smoother and more efficient!
Best of luck to all the Beeks on this forum, (hobbyist, sideliners, commercial) we all still do the same thing, KEEP BEES!


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## Mtn. Bee (Nov 10, 2009)

WLC said:


> http://www.jackterry.net/honey/nov/november.htm
> 
> I took a look at this page featuring a 'stock built' forklift.
> 
> Do you find that you had to build your own forklift for your operations, or if there a preferred 'brand name' forklift for moving pallets in beekeeping?


Most beeks prefer to use a HummerBee or Swinger or Bobcat (skidsteer), but you do see quite a few of the custom built forklifts as well.
I would say that most of them are built because of the price of the others that I mentioned above.
Could also be lots of other reasons that maybe the more experienced comm/other beeks on this forum could answer for you, as I don't have the pollination/loading experience that they have.
I use a skidsteer myself, but I already owned one!


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

WLC said:


> this page featuring a 'stock built' forklift.


 Where are the safety bars/cage? Wouldn't get me sitting in the drives seat with a load of bees high above my head.


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## Mtn. Bee (Nov 10, 2009)

Barry said:


> Where are the safety bars/cage? Wouldn't get me sitting in the drives seat with a load of bees high above my head.


Barry,
That photo was from early 70's or should I say pre-osha days! 
Back when we all road bicycles and skateboards without helmets!
I call them the glory days! 
Beeks in those days were not quite as sensitive as they are today!


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Barry said:


> Where are the safety bars/cage? Wouldn't get me sitting in the drives seat with a load of bees high above my head.


Amen to that Barry. It will happen eventually. I've had a few rattle the top of mine through the years (insert joke here). One night I snagged a box backing out and ended up with it jammed in a lift arm and 8 frames full of bees in my lap, what a mess.


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## Mtn. Bee (Nov 10, 2009)

jim lyon said:


> One night I snagged a box backing out and ended up with it jammed in a lift arm and 8 frames full of bees in my lap, what a mess.


Jim, did you have your bee suit on?


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Mtn. Bee said:


> Jim, did you have your bee suit on?


Bee suit? What's that? It was pretty bizarre, never saw it coming, just heard a loud crash over my head and a couple seconds later had a lapful of frames. Luckily I did have a veil on which more often than not I take off when it gets dark. At night I never wear anything white, it kind of makes you a bee magnet.


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

I suppose everyone has seen that "Grabber" in the PICS thread. Is that beast home made? Either way... it is rather audacious.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Ted Kretschmann said:


> Ace, You should be listening and learning. Not trying to advice and teach these people, who can keep bees while sleep walking from years of experience. TED


Yes Ted, it is a common belief that nobody could do it better than they themselves in the bee community. At the same time I here stories of quick feet and catching pallets with their hands, dumping loads and brushing it off as all you need is skill with a bob cat. So it sounds to me that they really need some help whether they want it or not.
I only offer some suggestions that may or may not help, you choose. They are only suggestions not teachings. Older beeks I would expect that they would not change anything. That's the way they are. Younger beeks may have an open mind. They can pick and choose the ideas they like or even improve on what they hear and see.
My father was a carpenter for forty years and if I tried to teach someone else how to be a carpenter using the tools my father had and I used when I was younger they would starve. Change is normal for most industries with one exception.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

WLC said:


> http://www.jackterry.net/honey/nov/november.htm
> 
> I took a look at this page featuring a 'stock built' forklift.


In the lower photo it looks like they picked the load parallel with the stringers and the forks all the way through. Imagine that.

Barry, if OSHA was involved in the beekeeping industry you would be wearing a wet suit and a divers bell. Let's see they spent 5K on the project. How much more do you think it would take to put a cage up? My guess is a long way from 20K. I give them an A+.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

OSHA has nothing to do with it. Just common sense and a placing a high value for one's head.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Yes Barry I agree but the purpose built stacker built for 5K is far safer than a standard bob cat as I see it. It is not known from the photo if the stacker does not let a average load fall back on the operator when it is in the up position. Either way I would use it rather than an undersize bob cat with short forks that costs twice as much.


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

Acebird said:


> Either way I would use it rather than an undersize bob cat with short forks that costs twice as much.


Yea.. I rather like it too, but why do you call a bobcat undersized? Looks like the homemade is limited to 2 pallets... I know I can lift more than that with my bobcat.

Also ... where does the short forks reference come from. Mine are 48"... more than sufficient... they extend all the way through the pallet.

I wonder how the "HomeMade" handles too. We have an old Chevy Blazer of about that vintage and I can only wonder how it would do with a lift on the rear... not well, unless some major regearing was included.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Barry said:


> Where are the safety bars/cage? Wouldn't get me sitting in the drives seat with a load of bees high above my head.


Just about what I said when I first saw the Thread. I don't recall seeing the boy at the controls. I wonder what OSHA and Child Welfare would say and do if they saw that photo?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Mtn. Bee said:


> Beeks in those days were not quite as sensitive as they are today!


Having flipped a pallet of hives onto the top of my Bobcat, I'm sure as blank glad that cab was there to keep me from being DEAD!!


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Ezra said:


> Can you tell me the dimensions of the pallet most often used by beekeepers?
> 
> Is it 36" by 36" or 42" by 42" or ............
> 
> Thank You


We have gone from the size most often used by beekeepers to WHICH pallet is most often used by beekeepers. Some of us thinking that most of the hives in the US are kept on pallets, perhaps because we ourselves do so. When, in all probability, most of the hives in the US aren't kept on pallets anyway. Aren't the majority of hives kept by people who have one or two hives? Or have things switched?

I would think I wouldn't be far off stating that the majority of migratory beekeepers use the Industry Standard 4-Way Pallet, 33"X47", or some variation of that. There are some who use a custom built migratory pallet that holds Six 10 frame hives and some who use a custom built pallet that holds Six 8 frame hives. Not too long ago all of my hives were on Standard Wearhouse Pallets, 40"X48" obtained from behind stores.

I also would not think I was too far off stating that the majority of nonmigratory hives are not kept on pallets at all. The stationary commercial operations which I am familiar w/ don't use them. There are more functional, longer lasting and nicer looking hive stands than wearhouse pallets. This is true for commercial and non alike. Many 2 hivers are as concerned w/ the way things look esthetically as they are about anything else in their apiary. So, old pallets often don't fit the bill.

WLC,
How do you handle a pallet in NYC? If you grabbed one from behind a store or out of an ally, you probably couldn't get a Cabbie to let you put it in their Cab, could you? And, considering the value of a pallet in good shape, were you to try to take one from behind a store and were caught doing so, I could see Theft Charges pending. Have you ever acquired pallets that way? Or were you just imagining?


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

hpm08161947 said:


> Yea.. I rather like it too, but why do you call a bobcat undersized? Looks like the homemade is limited to 2 pallets... I know I can lift more than that with my bobcat.
> 
> Also ... where does the short forks reference come from. Mine are 48"... more than sufficient... they extend all the way through the pallet.


Maybe they didn't know how to size the hydraulics but with 150+ HP at their disposal you could lift the truck and all. Does your bob cat have 150 HP or closer to 30-40?

48 inches ... How do you place the pallets if part of the truck is in the way? Unless you have position forks that advance forward and usually side to side you have to back up and grab the stack without the forks all the way through. Now it is dangerous.

If the blazer had 4 wheel drive in low range I think it would handle great. but you could eliminate the tranny and drive it with hydraulics if you wanted to add the price of a motor to the project.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

You could come by where I work and take a couple of truck loads of pallets away on any given day. I have a guy that comes by one of my warehouses daily. I leave the pallets for him right outside the door. Not all places are like that. We pay for the pallets that supplies are brought in on but it is all written off as the cost of the order. Pallets are considered trash. We have no use for them once the goods are used. It is a favor to us for someone to haul them off.

I have worked at other places that will cage them up and lock the gate.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> How do you handle a pallet in NYC?


In the 70's I lived in Bridgeport CT and had a flat bed trunk (company) I use to pick up pallets in the big apple to burn in a wood stove. Liquor store had to pay to get rid of them.


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