# the right foot,



## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

Welcome!


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## Fivej (Apr 4, 2016)

Welcome howlin. That's a much better introduction and as they say you catch more bees with honey than vinegar. I took a little liberty with that phrase. You just might find that working with bees will focus your thoughts, at least when working their hives! There are lots of helpful people here and I wish you the best of luck.


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## SouthTexasJohn (Mar 16, 2015)

Welcome to the forum.


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## howlin (May 15, 2016)

here is a couple pics of some jigs i made to help make some b gear.... i hope...


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## howlin (May 15, 2016)




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## howlin (May 15, 2016)

almost rained out of the day job office...








that deck is where i "reclaimed" a good amount of 2x8 cedar for frames and boxes.
h.

*edit and the railing spindles made nice frames.*


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## howlin (May 15, 2016)

ok, here's what happened,

earlier, i built 5 langstroth deep brood boxes out of a 5/8 cedar, made all the frames, made some more frames. took 2 boxes to my buddies house (4 acres cut out of family farm ontario, treed heavy with apple and cherry maple oak ash pine cedar..w/e .. all that will grow in this area, kingston ontario ish), he used to have bees in a tree (a huge oak), not keeping, they just were. they died the same year as all of them. i looked in the hole eventually, but saw nothing... need one of those cool spy/cat burglar flexible stick cameras(or endoscopy w/e),
i'm in the forest @ lakeside, rideau lakes, no farm production for at least 5km, i set 2 deeps up here, this was a while ago, i already had the lumber and a garage/shop with everything.
then i started researching, (ya, i know, i get it, i read it, new beekeepers want to reinvent the wheel... me too. lol.) i thought a topbar hive was kinda neat which fit in with letting natural comb be drawn, and then i thought i would put it in an "eco hive" box under it and use a screened bottom board to add insulating/natural/ etc... thingy, i also made the topbars for the topbar at 19 inches to accommodate putting them between drawn comb in a langstroth in order to get them drawn(well.. started) straight. i built this from some cedar fenceboard i had (from a job a few years ago) and some 2x and a couple 4x for frames and and...
then i thought about that couple days when i planted 300 lavender plants at my sisters in picton beach(health conscious organic central homesteading farming surrounding) a few years ago could make some cool lavender honey,.... so, she is kinda upscale... my crew and i have remodeled her beachhouse inside and out. cedar shake siding, big cedar deck, and white pine inside... i built a topbar hive with obs window from a cedar(fence boards 5/8ths) and pine at 5/4 mix, it fits a nice cedar rimmed pine medium super to go on top that matches the hive. i still had not bought anything at this time... 
oh ya, the 5th deep, we strapped to a tree at buddies house, his neighbour(2km) has bees... hey, ya' never know...
i had put one of my boxes at a house in kingston that i do property management and repairs to on a tree in the backyard because there was a "feral" hive the year before in the tree in street side. some awesome individual had nailed a piece of 1x3 tight over the tiny hole... first task i did at that newly acquired contract was remove that block. i haven't widen the hole any yet to be able to extract and examine, but looking in i can see comb, totally dead hole but filled with comb. i plan on taking a drill and forstner to it soon.
then i started for the season, first job, replacing a 35+ yr. old cedar deck. made from 2x8 for decking.
and still doing research, i saw mr bush and his mediums, i thought "i'm hooked, i will do this long term..", so... mediums eh? ok, out of seriously dry 2x8 cedar. first i did a pile of frames while researching mediums... ran across ralph jones III videoes in there somewhere. heard about checkerboarding... queen rearing from donthefatman and his "almost only hi-tech wax making" alley method ( http://www.bushfarms.com/beesalleymethod.htm ), and learned i should have at least a nuc ready at all times.
learned beelining, beelined buddies neighbours bees at 25 min.ish, whoops, marked them with liquid paper which had the best results over his wife's nail polish which got stuck to the wings... etc... hope he's not wondering why he has so many marked queens... lol. i hadn't got that far in information on year colours yet... 
so, planed down the decking, really dry 1 1/2 x 7.25 cedar, i got to keep 1 /38 x 6 /78 when all age stripped. if those bees don't propolize the entire thing, it will wick up moisture like mad and heat will force it out i think, it's old. same reason you shouldn't paint if you don't have to imho,(or not so ho ;D) is that plastic/finish on the outside will make any moisture that the wood takes in be forced to the inside. dipping on the other hand, i guesss you deal with what you create in a completly sealed unit... 
i made these boards into mediums, 7 frame, i noticed that the only thing mr bush uses the 8th frame for is drone comb. so, it is empty all winter anyways, and i noticed somewhere a mention of cold dead space between frame end and box as a complaint on the frames/foundation/topbar/foundationless/treat/don't treat/honey/brood meme. (it wasn't a meme.)
so, rj3 can do it in 7 frames, well then, so can i. mb says nucs winter better, my winter is more harsh... but i guess i will find out, seems around here you take them inside... one person has claimed heating the house with them from a trailer. (that would be the pollinator who's nuc im waiting on "in a couple weeks" from another post), i have an attic in garage, can pipe a hole out the wall, bonterra obs. hive style,? and buddy has a barn..and rabbits... maybe coexist with rabbits, and chickens.. i was thinking just now, bees/rabbits/chickens as layered for benefit? or maybe rabbit/chicken & bees, with the bees on south side of coop... anyone? lol, as if anyone read this far.
so, got 2 nucs today, installed one at buddies house, oh, when i opened the 4 frame nuc box, the guy was generous enough to include a completely empty plastic frame for 2016 queen at 200$. i reduced the bottom entrance alot, placed them in the exact order, in the centre of the box with my foundationless frames to the outside, had his wife do a syrup in a ziplock, put that on the inner cover in a shimbox, closed it up. (only the one deep high)
got home, set up the mediums so i can use a top entrance, shimmed the top box to a height i want the entrance at (at the top of box#3) using a solid bottom under and ... don't hate me yet... it will come later lol, checkerboarded medium foundationless frames between the deep frames in the medium box+shims. made a 3/4 deep by 2 inch long slot (is this too big) i'm nervous now!) in a shim box (shimboxes (and top/bottom bars are the 2x2 cedar spindles from deck , actual size now is 1 3/8th" after planing), did not use feed that buddies wife made for me as well as herself, closed it up. (only one 7frame medium.)
both colonies did fanning at the entrance of the closed hive. i hope this is good. i read about a 50/50 on that? i tried to be carefull, did not inspect much, as they had a horrible day as it was, did not see any queen out of 2 (marked even), but brand new and was dusk on try 2... seems they don't like that very much, oh, and windy..).. got them in boxes carefully and slowly but as quickly as possible, did not hear any crunching...
i have at least one more nuc to come and possibly a 3rd. if i cannot kill this first set with that amount of stress, i don't know... and the guy could not tell me what bees these are. "either from california or austrailia.". oh. ok. itailian then? mutts? not a clue. if i find a queen anywhere, i will take a picture.
oh ya, my goal is to learn how to produce brood and fill the topbars with the best and make nucs.
also, putting mediums in the deeps...
i plan to cut away any comb drawn on the bottom bar of the mediums, should i keep that comb and heat it to a topbar form topbar hive for future use? i assume it will be drone a queen cup attached to a separation by wood in the same frame?
i will post what happens (and some pictures)if anyone got this far and has interest in my ignorance. i will post it anyway for my own reference , but, that is what i am hoping will get off on the right foot for me.
h.


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

Nice to see you finally got some bees there howlin. I enjoy reading your posts, not sure if I follow it all, but it's fun reading. I hope yer having as much fun as it sounds like you are. Keep on keeping on.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Beekeeping is what you make out of it going
along with the bees and not against it, sometimes.
So yes, you can keep the comb for future use in your
topbar hive. But you have to find a way to attach it
securely to the bars. And it won't be like a drone a queen
cup attached by separation in the same frame. Something which
is too confusing for me to do otherwise. In a few years you will
get the entire bee process down. In the mean time enjoy your new found hobby.


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## howlin (May 15, 2016)

hi all/any,
took a couple pictures... was wondering if this opening was too big/small, its pretty windy out as well.
not seeming like a lot of traffic in/out, some , but not loads, they are congregating at the entrance, and i have no idea if they are trying to chew it bigger, or glue it up. 
i guess i should just wait a week and see ... 
but, here are a couple pictures in case anyone else knows!! 
















they seem to be busy doing something....
h.


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## howlin (May 15, 2016)

RayMarler said:


> ... not sure if I follow it all, but it's fun reading...


not sure i even know at most times and i've been out of decoder rings for years now.
h.


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## howlin (May 15, 2016)

my first nuc install. I ignored all advice and checkerboraded a 3 frame nuc into a shimmed up (to accommodate deep) 7 frame homemade @ 1 3/8ths"thick medium box on Monday night. I couldn't find the white qeen at that time as it was getting dark shortly after the 2 hr drive on the windiest day and night in weeks.
i did not feed them.
I was expecting like a ladder of burr comb between the drawn deep brood and medium foundationless when I looked today just after noon, but, they had started drawing comb on the four foundaionless frames. i have pictures, but not at my computer atm. I was only looking because tomorrow is rain when I originally wated to check. saw the queen on the 2nd frame of drawn brood.(pics to follow later), also saw starting of queen cup. which if this continues, I could? apply to a split if it ever gets an egg?
oh ya, really windy yesterday, does that keep them in? and building comb? how about a fan on them? so, I was going to feed them due to not nice weather, had made a 5:3 mixture that I was going to put in a ziplock bag of 1:1 from my buddies wife, but didn't. instead since it was in a travel coffee mug, I just decided I would pour it down the side missing a frame due to inspection. it started leaking. lol.
and straight straight comb. ya, twice.
they really threw up a buzz/hum shortly after dumping syrup in the hive, anyone confirm?
I'll do it again to see. was wondering if I killed the queen, but it stopped quick.
if they don't die or leave from the stress I gave them...

h.

pics... http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?312730-Today-in-the-Apiary&p=1429345#post1429345


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## ethanhogan (Jun 1, 2016)

Howlin,
I love your innovations and adhd! Once you become a master please write a book! I would love to read it!! I may not follow it but it's fun to read your stuff. Keep at it. Love your experimental side as well. Let us know how all the boxes work for the bees 🤓


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## howlin (May 15, 2016)

hanks for the vote of confidence, but a whole book? holy goodness!! I can barely make it through a paragraph without getting off topic, imagine the editor of said book, PTSD anyone?
I would wish that on no one. lol. 
h.


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## ethanhogan (Jun 1, 2016)

howlin said:


> hanks for the vote of confidence, but a whole book? holy goodness!! I can barely make it through a paragraph without getting off topic, imagine the editor of said book, PTSD anyone?
> I would wish that on no one. lol.
> h.


It would be one hilarious, confusing book!! Hahaha you wouldn't even need chapters just a complete book of words about beekeeping lol


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## howlin (May 15, 2016)

right?


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## howlin (May 15, 2016)

so,
i inspected both the 7 frame medium and 10 frame deep, so far, the 7 frames takes the lead.
first, the 7 frames checked with the deeps from the nuc box.
































i guess thats 5 photos... 
i had expected that they would have just made burr comb bridges from the deep frames already drawn through the foundationless ones... i was surprised. also i don't know if that would've been a good idea had i had foundation frames.
the 10 frame deep which i did in the "recommended fashion" can be seen in the next post, my connection is slow, takes about 20 min for me to upload 5 pics... 
but, living in the woods does have some advantages. (no, not dial-up, satellite).
h.
cont...


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## howlin (May 15, 2016)

hi,
missing last new frame from above,








on to the 10 frame deep.
























that was it for any new action. both installed on the monday.(today is friday)
they did not touch that black plastic frame that the guy included in the nuc.
each nuc came with a black plastic frame of nothing. i did not even put it in with the 7 frame box, but, i wanted to follow recommendations to a tee. so, i put it all in the 10 deep in order. i maybe should use a follower to reduce space in the 10 to start with i think. agree/no? i get another nuc tomorrow, so i will try it and find out out, different supplier though... don't know if i can use it to compare to the others. apparently these are(were/might be/could be) buckfast.
anyways...
i put that box back together like this...








oh ya, i wanted to ask if i am putting these ramblings in the proper place. i just kept posting in here because i knew where to find it.

tomorrows dude says i need to bring a box at dusk... do i put them into the 10 deep the following day? or in the dark?

h.

edit*guess where the queen is laying in the 10, yep, on the foundationless that is not even fully drawn.. preference anyone?


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## howlin (May 15, 2016)

doh!
other side of that one frame...
View attachment 25386


h.


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

You may need to re-coat that black frame with wax to get the bees using it. If it's old, the wax coating is gone and bees don't like bare plastic.

Sometimes a follower board to reduce space in a larger box than what the bees can cover is good.

I never work bees at dusk or in the dark. They get a little mean...


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## howlin (May 15, 2016)

hi all,
last night i picked up the first nuc ordered, so, a "couple weeks" is actually 3 weeks and a couple days, good to know. 
i took my 5 frame deep nuc box that i had made with me, put 3.5 drawn full plastic frames in and dumped rest of bees in.
drove home (about 10PM), placed it out in my little area near the other and beside the box i want them in.
was raining this AM, but broke around noon. i checked out the 7 frame med. hive that i am trying to get the deep nuc frames out of, they are ding really well at drawing out the medium frames, so,
i took a frame that has foods, eggs, capped, and all the bees that were on it and put it into a 10frame box, slid the other 2 deep frames to the outside and put in another med. for them to draw.
then opened the new nuc, shook half the bees off of the frames into the 10 frame, did not see a queen anywhere, removed the half (one side) plastic frame that came with nuc replaced with one of mine, left a queen cup that i could not determine if there was an egg in in the nuc.
filled in gaps and covered both.
so, now, either the 10 frame or the nuc is queenless and anything that is foraging will probably go back to original hive.
lol, so i guess i check in a couple days to see if the queencup/cell is doing anything, which box has eggs, etc.
i understand that i will probably lose them, but i need to experiment to see how badly i can mismanage in order to see if my faith in how badly things want to survive is correct.  not really sure in what ways i could stress them more.... anyone have an idea?
h.


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## howlin (May 15, 2016)

so, 4 days ago, i took a deep frame out (i think there was a queen cup but can't remember)of the 7 med hive. set that in a 10 deep, it had all stages, with the nurse, got the 5 deep nuc open and took out the 1/2 side 1/8th filled honey plastic frame, slid the brood to the back (side entrance) put in foundationless deep. gentle shake of each frame in the nuc into the 10 deep. not sure where queen went, plan on inspection tomorrow.
so,
question.
 since there is piles of robbing going on from what seems the 5 frame assaulting the 10 deep (to which i first (the next day after installing) opened and put the plastic frames on the outside ... plastic/none/7frame nuc deep/none/plastic centered in a 10 frame deep), 1/2"x2" top entrance shim, closed solid bottom board, could i switch these hives and have the foragers/robbers return to the weaker hive? or is queenright an issue here? if i find queen cells in the hive being robbed, can i block it in for a day? or two?
first though, i'll check the 7 med. to see if i can remove the deep frame and expand by moving the existing down a box and put a box over with entrance in the same spot which will be a new box with 2 of 7 brood from below in it split by an empty frame and the rest empty.
7 frame med.
solid bottom for top
entrance shim @3/4x2 inches
e/e/b/e/b/e/e
b/b/e/b/e/b/b
solid bottom
legend: e= empty foundationless medium frame, b = medium foundationless brood, p = plastic, ps = small cell(that black one from the first nuc.)

5 frame nuc.

migratory top
side entance @ 1 1/4" with controlling(pivot by screw) mason jar cover... lol.
so,
opening, e p p p e
bottom board (which i can remove by sliding out in hopes to populate downward given the chance. would that work?

10 frame.
top/bottom
entrance shim 2x1/2" entrance centered short side
e e ps e b e p e e e
bottom/top

)
so i closed the entrance tonight on the 10 deep, will look in the morning and see if robbers...if so, i will leave until saturday but can close of robbing hive(5) when i increase the 10 from the 7. hopefully i have stressed one of them enough to make a queen cell i can place in 10 if they don't have one/some.
will comment in the AM if i see robbing bees trying to find a way in. and then later make 10 = 
ya,
that was can i close them in completely and for how long, i have no idea if they have stores, anymore, but will look and report.
any pre-suggestions, anything i should be sure to take with?
h.


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## howlin (May 15, 2016)

lol @ 2 weeks into it.... almost, well, 10 days. when do i get a coin?
h.


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## howlin (May 15, 2016)

@ ray,
ya, i so keep meaning to build a langs follower board. no idea why i don't have that. i keep wanting it. i'll do that tomorrow. 
h.


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