# Does freezing cleaned frames help with diseases?



## shoalcreek (Dec 31, 2006)

After I have scraped the propolis and old wax from my old frames I have often put these frames in the freezer for 7-8 hours. Is this a useful measure to kill off diseases that might have attached to the frames? Thanks.


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## sierrabees (Jul 7, 2006)

Most virus's and spore forming bacteria are resistant to freezing. About three days in the freezer will kill varroa and wax moth eggs and larva. I suspect a day in the hot sun in a solar wax melter would do more good but there are some organaisms that could withstand that. As a general rule, the more complex the organism is the more fragile it is.


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## shoalcreek (Dec 31, 2006)

Doug: Thanks for your response to my "frames in a freezer" question. I have been keeping bees since 1974 and now have 11 hives. I initially began to put my cleaned frames in the freezer because of the wax moth. I found that unlike my beekeeper friends that I was not troubled by moths or ANY diseases. If I have had disease problems over the years my beekeeping skills did not detect them. Thanks for your help. I will continue to put frames in the freezer but for a longer period. I like the old saying: If it ain't broken, don't fix it. Steve


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Is this a useful measure to kill off diseases that might have attached to the frames? 

It will get rid of wax moth eggs. IMO, that makes it worth doing. I think it's doubtful it helps on anything else.


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## paintingpreacher (Jul 29, 2006)

Reaearch has shown AFB spores remain virulent for at least 40 yrs. The spores are extremely resistant to sunlight, desiccation, and germicidal action of honey. Freezing apparently has no deleterious effect, and spores have been known to survive boiling in water for as long as five hours, autoclaving at 15 lb. pressure for 25 minutes, dry heat at 98 C for 46 hours, and in melted beeswax at 100 C have survived for nearly five days. (Burnside)
1938.

Read this in Mississippi Beekeeping News for Jan.
Thought I would share it with you..


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## sierrabees (Jul 7, 2006)

<If it ain't broken, don't fix it.>

Works for me.


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## AkHeavenlyHoney (Oct 15, 2006)

If it ain't broke, keep fixing it until it is.

Alaska


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I was at a fencing tournament and the armorer had their version of that: "if it ain't broke, take it apart and rebuild it". Race car mechanics have the same creed I think.


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## chinitoe (Dec 10, 2006)

" and in melted beeswax at 100 C have survived for nearly five days "..

so those selling wax foundations are probably gona spread AFB? can anyone confirm this?

theres no AFB in my country and im afraid i might be bringing it here...


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## ozzy (Feb 5, 2005)

No, if you buy wax foundation it won't have active spores. If it did we would all have AFB and believe me there is only a small percentage of apiaries that have active AFB. It is the one disease I have never treated for and in 40 years of beekeeping I have burned only one hive. That said, it is easy-very easy to get if you aren't careful. Buy a nuc from the wrong guy, old equipment or work a friends apiary and then your own and you may have just made a big mistake. However if you locate your apiary more than 3 miles from a managed apiary, torch your hive tool often, use disposable plastic gloves between apiaries (or hives) and don't switch equipment around between hives (unless you know them to be free of disease) and you won't have a problem. Even if you do it wont be the entire yard but just one or two hives.
Nosema, viruses and bacteria can be reduced by removing old comb and boiling the frames in lye. Strong bleach will probably reduce some of the above but 30percent hydrogen peroxide will kill even AFB and probably everything else. Actually using hydrogen peroxide is probably not worth the risk or the time and trouble. I only know one person that tried it and when he dipped his gloves in they disolved. Potent stuff.


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## naturebee (Dec 25, 2004)

Sometimes I will place my frames that need cleaned in the freezer for a few hours. This makes the comb and wax very brittle, and seems to aid in the comb scraping process making comb flake away much easier.


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## NW IN Beekeeper (Jun 29, 2005)

Question: 
[Is this a useful measure to kill off diseases that might have attached to the frames? ]

Answer: 
[Most virus's and spore forming bacteria are resistant to freezing.]

Answer: 
[I think it's doubtful it helps on anything else.]

Answer:
[Freezing apparently has no deleterious effect...]

Reply:
[I will continue to put frames in the freezer but for a longer period.]

Maybe I'm missing something, but they all told you it doesn't really have an effect on AFB. Yet your reply is you'll just do it for longer. Huh?
Why did you even bother asking the question when you weren't going to respect the information in the replies? 

Its not that your freezing program works, or would work when performing it longer. The real probability is that you don't have enough spores present to be a problem. Statistically some 10-15% of all hives have spores, just not in enough concentration to cause the disease. Dirty combs are the normal culprit for accumulating enough spores to cause the disease, hence the suggestion to rotate out old combs (some suggest 10%/year). 

[If it ain't broken, don't fix it.]

Considering your solution, I don't think you'd recognize it was broke or when and how to fix it. 

Many new people come on these boards looking for help with very serious and important problems. It is very important not to post to these boards with false half-hearted solutions to problems that many studies and beekeepers imperically tested and have proven do not work. Be sure to do your homework before you post, and don't expect anyone else do it for you or correct your mistakes after the fact, because many won't and you can cause a wave of mis-information. 

Common freezing does not kill American Foul Brood (AFB).


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## NW IN Beekeeper (Jun 29, 2005)

Question: 
[..so those selling wax foundations are probably gona spread AFB?]

Answer:
[No, if you buy wax foundation it won't have active spores. If it did we would all have AFB and believe me there is only a small percentage of apiaries that have active AFB.]

You have to consider how AFB works. It has to be up taken by nurse bees and fed to larvae of a certain age. 

First off, when processing wax it is melted and a great majority of any spores would become encapsulated in wax. Some spores could remain on the surface, but many would be stuck to the wax foundation (not able to be disolved in honey and consumed) or further encapsulated when the combs are drawn. For the few spores that remain, they'd be diluted in the honey stores and consumed by the hive popuation (IE workers too that are uneffected by the consumption of spores and poop them out outside the hive, hence removing more spores). 

This is not to say that a serious infectious comb could not get into the wax system and be a big problem, its just not as probable as one might think. One has to consider where most of the wax comes from, honey cappings, and cappings are not the highest area of concentrated contagen, brood combs are. 

You'd be more likely to reconcentrate the disease from remelting infected brood combs and using that diseased wax back in your hives. 

-Jeff


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## beehoppers (Jun 16, 2005)

I think maybe shoalcreek picked up on needing to freeze longer to kill the wax moth eggs....
I share his attitude.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

I was reading my bee mag the other day and read an interesting comment from a large migratory beekeeper. During his routeen yearly work, Honey pull in the Dakotas, to pollination in California, to wintering and splitting in Texas, he mentioned he stores all his empty honey supers in a Northern yard after the honeypull. Why? Logistics for one, but mainly to kill off the Wax moth in his equipment.

Your getting ahead with freezing your combs for wax moth control, shoalcreek, but I have to agree with Jeff, studdy your diseases so you can manage your disease before it manages you


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