# harvesting queen cells from plastic foundation



## DerTiefster (Oct 27, 2016)

I see no one has attempted an answer. I have investigated this question before. It is generally said that it's a bad idea to try to peel QCs off plastic foundation, but some report success when care is taken in slicing the base of the cell off the plastic, so as not to deform the cell. One party reported that he used wax from the comb to cover any hole in the base of the cell.

What I've been able to guess at is driven by reports of a small pool of royal jelly at the bottom of a cell built on the flat portion of the foundation. It is said that the bees "float" the larva out to the downward facing portion of the constructed QC. This means to me that there must be a portion of the cell base that is full of jelly and NOT the tail of the queen. If a small portion of this reserve volume is clipped off by a sharp implement, there will be a hole in the base of the QC. The report of using wax to cover this hole makes sense to me. But I haven't tried it. The writer reporting this claimed to have no adverse effects. But if your cells are too close together, the "without deforming the cell" may be the hard part.

It was last year that I inquired, and I didn't keep good records of from whom the info came or where it was recorded.

Michael


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## Jtcmedic (Apr 7, 2017)

I tried to do this last year was able to salvage 1 but damaged a lot going to remove.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

I think I get about a 50/50 when removing cells from plastic. It really depends on how the bees made the cells, it they are emergency cells the larva is too close to the plastic. If the bees reformed wax from existing worker cells to make queen cups they sometimes come off the plastic enough and this makes it very easy to reuse. 

If there is two or three cells on a frame I just use the whole frame. 

I also use a lot of foundationless frames, if the bees are raising brood on one of these at the time, they usually make lots of cells on them.


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## tpope (Mar 1, 2015)

I have had some success using an xacto knife. I cut to the plastic by feeling the knife tip touch the raised areas. Ensure that you are a couple of cells above the start of the queen cell, slide the knife in sideways all the way to the plastic and then follow the plastic down with the knife until you have freed the cell. You should have a hole in the top of the cell filled with the remaining royal jelly. Put a wax patch over the hole to keep the bees out until the queen hatches.


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## Jadeguppy (Jul 19, 2017)

Thank you for the responses. I'm going to take a closer look this weekend. If I can get just a few, I'll be very happy. The frame they built on is weird in that they have tunnels between some of the comb and plastic, so maybe I'll get luck. The cells were build all over the frame, not along the bottom.


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## Clayton Huestis (Jan 6, 2013)

If you OTS notch you might have more luck cutting out cells if you plan to try this allot.


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## Jadeguppy (Jul 19, 2017)

What is OTS?


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## Pmt1451 (Mar 20, 2017)

Jadeguppy said:


> What is OTS?


I have used a Dremel with a cutting wheel. cut 1/2 around the cell thru the plastic and pop it out. the bees should fill in the hole with new comb or use it for a passage between frames.


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

@Jadepuppy: OTS is something promoted by Mel Disselkoen and it involves (among other things) using your hive tool to cut in and bend down the lower edge of a small group of very young larvae cells (cells young enough to have been used for grafting). The causes the bees - in the absence of a laying queen - to draw out queen cells right where the beekeeper wants them. So they are easy to find and have a more vertical, swarm-cell like, orientation than worker cells converted by the bees into queen cells.

My own experience with it is that it works almost too well - a hive tool's width will produce a confusing tangled knot of overlapping queen cells, and if you do several notches you'll have more queen cells than you may need, or want. I would definitely make the notches on different frames (so they are more easily divvied-up) if you want more than one split. I don't enjoy culling excess queen cells and I don't need much in the way of increase, so the technique is a bit over top for me.

If you Goggle up Mel's name, you will find info about this and his precise timing on nuc making. (NB, his timing for nuc making may not jive with your climate in FL. He's in the upper mid-west, I think.)

IRRC, OTS actually stands for On The Spot.

Nancy


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## Swarmhunter (Mar 5, 2015)

Once you get a little experience with notching you can actually notch just one cell at a time and you won't get the cluster effect that you get with using the whole width of the tool. One cell with the tip of the tool. Try it you'll like it.


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## Jadeguppy (Jul 19, 2017)

Thank you for the info. I looked it up. Why notch in a queenless hive instead of them just making a queen?


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

Because notching using the OTS technique gets the cells made where you want them to be (which can be on multiple frames, so the cutting-off of cells may not be necessary, or at least, less-needed) and it also deforms the cell's bottom edge enough so the resulting emergency queen cells take on a more vertical orientation, which may result in larger and "better" queens. If you chose your cells correctly it also may get the bees to use younger larvae, fed from the git-go as queens.

Some people swear by the OTS notching. My bees seem to have no trouble making very nice emergency queens without it. 

YMMV.

Nancy


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## Swarmhunter (Mar 5, 2015)

Nancy- You're absolutely right. Notching just puts the cells on the frames where you want them(not along the bottom) and the cells stand out off of plastic foundation a little farther if you would want to move them. I hate moving frames with Queen cells all stacked along the bottom. To easy to damage them and I want at least 5-6 frames with Queen cells on them when I do splits.
Jerry


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