# put MAQS in today



## jakec (May 26, 2015)

I put 2 MAQS strip in my home hive at 4:30 pm today. This pic is from about 9 pm. Lots of drunk looking bees and lots of dead out in front of hive. Lots of larvae drug out and seems like a lot of the larvae is on the sides of the box. Just seems wierd to me. Man thats some strong stuff. I was outside with a strong wind blowing away from me when I opened the box and it still bout knocked me down. I know I was supposed to have respirators and all on but at least I used nitrile gloves. Hope this helps 'em get through the harsh Florida winter a little easier.


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## jakec (May 26, 2015)

Here's the ground right in front of the hive. I'm no photographer so the pics suck.


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

I used MAQ's on last saturday and sunday. Observed similar behavior. Drunken bees staggering as far away as 15-20 feet away from the treated colonies. (8 in one yard). It will be ok. Today the bees were looking pretty much back to normal. (day 4 or 5) 
I did lose a lot of bees. I estimate 500-1000 per colony. I'm estimating a little high on purpose. 
It will be fine.

Am lucky in that my yard has 6 hives on a large concrete area so I could see all the crawlers and dead bees perfectly well. Swept on Tuesday because I didn't want ppl I sell honey to seeing the carnage. It stayed clean so I'm saying the bees die on days 1-3 in general. They were probably sick already I think. The weak, the young, and old die imo.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Why not use OAV? No harm to brood, bees or queen..... No need to open the hive and after the initial investment of the vaporizer, much cheaper..


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## jakec (May 26, 2015)

aunt betty said:


> I used MAQ's on last saturday and sunday. Observed similar behavior. Drunken bees staggering as far away as 15-20 feet away from the treated colonies. (8 in one yard). It will be ok. Today the bees were looking pretty much back to normal. (day 4 or 5)
> I did lose a lot of bees. I estimate 500-1000 per colony. I'm estimating a little high on purpose.
> It will be fine.
> 
> Am lucky in that my yard has 6 hives on a large concrete area so I could see all the crawlers and dead bees perfectly well. Swept on Tuesday because I didn't want ppl I sell honey to seeing the carnage. It stayed clean so I'm saying the bees die on days 1-3 in general. They were probably sick already I think. The weak, the young, and old die imo.


I had read about how that would prob happen but it looked worse in person. carnage is a good way to put it, it looks pretty bad.



snl said:


> Why not use OAV? No harm to brood, bees or queen..... No need to open the hive and after the initial investment of the vaporizer, much cheaper..


I think I am going to go to some kind of OAV by spring. I only have 2 hives and didn't treat the one that was a feral cutout from an old birdhouse. that hive is only in 2 mediums and I was planning on using one maqs strip on it but after seeing how the other hive is doing I think im just gonna let them ride until spring and then start with OAV. just didn't have money to spend on a rig and haven't really had time to try to build one.


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## WWW (Feb 6, 2011)

After things settle down in the hive you will need to do an inspection to see if you still have a queen. I agree with SNL, OAV is the safest way to go, especially in the fall of the year when replacement queens are harder to locate. I have seen threads on this topic where people state that they will use one pad in the fall which is easier on the bees, you are indeed one brave soul to use two pads.


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

snl said:


> Why not use OAV? No harm to brood, bees or queen..... No need to open the hive and after the initial investment of the vaporizer, much cheaper..


... No mites killed on capped brood. Formic acid can be used one and done.

There are good points for both. To me, formic acid is a better choice for July-August when the mites are building up. OAV is ideal when they are broodless and the weather is foul so you don't want to open the hive, like maybe December. But if the mites are high in December they are probably dead already. Combine the approaches and you can probably kill almost all the nasty things.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

snl said:


> Why not use OAV? No harm to brood, bees or queen..... No need to open the hive and after the initial investment of the vaporizer, much cheaper..


At home he could probably treat the 3-5 times necessary to kill most of the mites. But if you're doing much outyard stuff or have hives spread like I do it just doesn't make sense time-wise.
I used MAQS this year in colonies that had got three weeks of OAV and still had tons of mite fall. I just don't think that you can do "enough good" when there is so much capped and nearly capped brood as I have in some of my colonies. Infinitely more efficient than making 3-5 trips and getting most mites where most of the mites are is a huge huge weapon.

It's not really OAV's fault... it was mostly my failure to manage mites before they became an issue. Will still OAV when they're broodless. But will be using MAQS when I have a colony with capped brood that needs mites killed.

Regarding the MAQS. I didn't notice any brood kill or goofy bees. But I only treated a single nuc at home, all the full dose colonies are out and away. Only saw one of them on about day three and they looked normal. No real increase in dead on the concrete. I think the nuc in my back yard pulled 1-2 larva and I saw a couple mites on the landing board. Otherwise it seemed they had less flying the first couple days but then seemed back to normal.


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## jakec (May 26, 2015)

WWW said:


> you are indeed one brave soul to use two pads.


I think ignorant is probably more accurate than brave! I couldn't believe how strong the vapors were. I don't see how they can breath in the hive at all.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

I used two in 8 of mine had no MAQS related queen issues. Single in one small colony and a single pad in a 5/5 nuc.


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

MAQ's in July or August when we get weather that's 95 during the day and 75 at night is not an option. That's why I waited and waited until the last possible moment. It's risky but beekeeping is like living in Vegas. I'll know about queen damages this weekend. Anyone want to see how it goes? I won't candy-coat it.


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## GaryG74 (Apr 9, 2014)

I treated five hives three days ago. Two had a lot of dead/dying bees and some larva, the other three had minimal bees and larva in front of the hives. All five hives have about the same population. I've got more to treat, been 62F and 10-15 MPH winds the last two days.


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

I treated two of three hives weeks ago. This weekend, the third (untreated) hive had maybe 50 dead bees on the landing board and more on the ground in front of it. The other two had just a few.

The point being, the dead bees had nothing to do with the use of MAQS. Had more to do with the nearly constant rain for the last couple of weeks and the temps running about 45 F, and the time of year being about right to replace summer bees with winter bees. The fewest dead bees are in front of the weakest hive. 

None of us north of maybe Alabama will know the real results until next March or April. 

Meantime, the bees are hanging out at the entrance reducers just praying that the forecast comes true and they get mild temps and a few rays of sunshine tomorrow. They plan to give the New England Asters the bum's rush.


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## jakec (May 26, 2015)

they seem to be doing a lot better now. still not back to normal activity but some coming and going. I didn't get any bearding at all. it was almost like they all just stayed inside for 2 days. weird. the weather was kinda chilly so maybe that's why. I sure got a pile of dead mites in the bottom board though.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

jakec said:


> they seem to be doing a lot better now. still not back to normal activity but some coming and going. I didn't get any bearding at all. it was almost like they all just stayed inside for 2 days. weird. the weather was kinda chilly so maybe that's why. I sure got a pile of dead mites in the bottom board though.


I had a nuc that did the exact same thing. Basically no activity for first two days, then 3-5 limited flying, after that back to normal. Colonies next to them were going hard at the goldenrod.


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## jakec (May 26, 2015)

got home from work yesterday and the bees where going crazy. I finally smelled the stinky smell ive been waiting on. still have the maqs in. the bees seem more active than ever. it seems like a completely different hive now. I think its just a coincidence of timing with the fall flow or our little cold snap but I don't know. maybe my bees needed a kickstart and the maqs did it? maybe none of this is related and im just a bee idiot? they are booming this morning too. I haven't seen much pollen at all coming in with them but they are coming and going like crazy. I think ill go in tomorrow and take out the strips. thatll be the 7 days the instructions said to leave them alone.


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## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

aunt betty said:


> ... I'll know about queen damages this weekend. Anyone want to see how it goes? I won't candy-coat it.


I'm interested.


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## WWW (Feb 6, 2011)

I'm interested as well, so Let us have it, I don't have time for fantasy.


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

Treated 13 hives. Been checking the past two days and so far it's 8/8 queen right. They've all been laying eggs, some more than others. They all have 5 day larva pretty much (oldest I saw). Treated on saturday and a sunday I think. That means they stopped laying for 5 days. Seems about right.


One hive that I'm not real fond of lost a lot of bees. It's been dragging along all summer fighting off the beetles. Never got full blown strong, probably due to mites. 
5 more to check but they're sort of all in three locations, two different rooftops and a farm way out in the sticks. I'll hit two more this afternoon.

I'm betting they all have queens at this point. The weather was perfect temps, never got too hot or too cold.


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## jakec (May 26, 2015)

good results!


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

10/10 queen right. Gotta cool off a while and maybe do one or two more before it's too late today. Driving there don't sound very good but what the heck. We won't really know how effective this stuff really is for a few years but at least I'm not worried about losing half my queens in one fell swoop.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Great to hear, aunt betty!

Get ready to have bees coming out of the cracks, seams,and your ears next spring.


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## WWW (Feb 6, 2011)

Happy to hear that your hives are okay.


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## jakec (May 26, 2015)

checked mine yesterday. queen still alive! maqs were propolized on there pretty good but they hadn't started chewing them up and taking them out.


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

From the results I've seen I'd recommend MAQ's and plan to use them again. The temp range you use them in is quite important. Waiting til it got cool enough to use them properly was a good decision I think. Doing it in August here would be impossible. September worked obviously.


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## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

snl said:


> Why not use OAV? No harm to brood, bees or queen..... No need to open the hive and after the initial investment of the vaporizer, much cheaper..


I agree with that Larry. What about the mites building up a resistance. Should we not be doing an alternate treatment to get the ones that survive the OA.


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## Michael B (Feb 6, 2010)

I manage around 75 hives on any given year. I have used Apiguard and OA with good results. I tries FA this year on 10 strong hives as a test. These 10 hives were all in the same bee yard with other hives treated with Apiguard and 2 hives left treatment free as a check.

I liked the one and done aspect of FA. Weather was lows in the 60's and highs in a mid 80's for the treatment period. At the two week check found low mite drop (have breed for mite tolerance) and 5 hives queenless. All of these treated hives were queen right and 2015 young queens 2-3 months into laying. 50% loss is unacceptable and comparable to others in my travels.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Michael B said:


> I liked the one and done aspect of FA. Weather was lows in the 60's and highs in a mid 80's for the treatment period. At the two week check found low mite drop (have breed for mite tolerance) and 5 hives queenless. All of these treated hives were queen right and 2015 young queens 2-3 months into laying. 50% loss is unacceptable and comparable to others in my travels.


What type of Formic Acid? Homebrew meat pads "flash treatment" or MAQS slow release? If MAQS how did you apply them? How many pads? Where at in the brood nest?

I did a similar number of hives as you did with zero issues using MAQS and closely flowing manufacturing directions.


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## Michael B (Feb 6, 2010)

I used MAQS on double deep colonies. Place two pads between the boxes. hives had SBB open and full entrance width and upper ventilation. It was in August and luckily I have mated queen in a bank and had no place for them to go and was about to sell them. I used them in the queenless hives.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

Michael B said:


> I liked the one and done aspect of FA. Weather was lows in the 60's and highs in a mid 80's for the treatment period. At the two week check found low mite drop (have breed for mite tolerance) and 5 hives queenless. All of these treated hives were queen right and 2015 young queens 2-3 months into laying. 50% loss is unacceptable and comparable to others in my travels.


50% loss is not my experience nor have I heard of such high losses using MAQS in my travels.
Something else is at play here- if the queens were young and healthy, the hives were just needing treatment and not a miracle performed to save them then maybe a possible issue is relative humidity and air flow. I have experienced a higher rate of brood loss and queen loss when conditions were on the high temperature side of treatment, 90%+ relative humidity and no air movement especially during initial 3 days of treatment. But not 50% queen loss. 
What were the weather conditions suring first 3-4 days of treatment?


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

http://www.weather.com/weather/monthly/l/USMA0390:1:US

Some warm days sprinkled in there for sure.


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## vdotmatrix (Apr 5, 2014)

MAQS i thought was a pretty harsh regimen since it takes 3 days for all the FA to bubble off and yo uhave to not distrub the colony for a week....I switched to just using Formic Acid this summer.....24 hrs and I was done....The only thing with FA is that it kills open brood and it kills newly emerged bees..... 

This time of year I , personally wouldnt use FA, the bees we have now or the ones being made now will be my special overwintering bees...

I did my OAV treatments on all 5 hives yesterday and today and I will repeat every 5-7 days until thanksgiving...OAV kills the varroa in the open and treating for the next 4 weeks will catch many of the emerging mites.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

I treated 8 or 9 colonies with MAQS and saw next to no brood kill in evidence. Total between all the colonies certainly less than 50 pupae removed.

Regarding not touching the colony for a week. Wouldn't you already be doing that anyway...? 

Agree not to do it this time of year, though. There are better options especially up this way where there is little brood left in colonies at this point anyway.


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## vdotmatrix (Apr 5, 2014)

The INSTRUCTIONS FROM nod read that way....>50 isnt no brood kill in evidence...unless you are sitting there watching the colonies you may miss them flying off with their dead comrades. regardless, it is a very small percantage of the population but at this time of year, the brood and bees being produced are very valuable. Treating with the 85mls of 50% FA, it is only a 24hour treatment. SHA-BAnG!!!! And it is cheap!


jwcarlson said:


> I treated 8 or 9 colonies with MAQS and saw next to no brood kill in evidence. Total between all the colonies certainly less than 50 pupae removed.
> 
> Regarding not touching the colony for a week. Wouldn't you already be doing that anyway...?
> 
> Agree not to do it this time of year, though. There are better options especially up this way where there is little brood left in colonies at this point anyway.


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