# Wall thickness, why always 3/4"



## Fetustician (Feb 23, 2015)

Hi,
I am new to this and I would like some feedback from experience users. I read about all sorts of problems with cold hives in the winter. I am tempted to build mine and was wondering if there was any over ridding reasons to use 3/4" aside that it is cheap and plentiful and of course lighter then 1/5". I was planing on milling some Eastern Red Cedar into 1.5" and use those boards.
Inside dimensions would be the usual to be able to use standard equipment.

Of course I realize that non-standard hives bodies condemn me to build them each time I need to add or modify.

Is this foolish? Unnecessary?

Any opinions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

You explained exactly in that 3/4" is cheaper and lighter. Those are all the reasons I need. If you make enough money off fetus to use 2by X it will not be bad for the bees.


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

If I guy were to build with commercially available lumber using 2x ( 1.5" lumber) is actually cheaper than using 1x ( .75 " lumber) The only down side is weight and like you mentioned the difficulty of mixing commercially available boxes, but that can be overcome by tacking on a 1x cleat around the bottom of a commercial box and then usilizing regular commercial boxes on top of the transition box.....so basically just a weight issue.


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## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

Fetustician said:


> Hi,
> I am new to this and I would like some feedback from experience users. I read about all sorts of problems with cold hives in the winter. I am tempted to build mine and was wondering if there was any over ridding reasons to use 3/4" aside that it is cheap and plentiful and of course lighter then 1/5". I was planing on milling some Eastern Red Cedar into 1.5" and use those boards.
> Inside dimensions would be the usual to be able to use standard equipment.
> 
> ...



The important dimensions are the interior ones. You can use any thickness of wood you wish, but any boxes on top of other boxes should be made of wood with the same or greater thickness, so that you don't make ledges to collect water and other things. A thicker box will be heavier, so keep that in mind.


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## Fetustician (Feb 23, 2015)

Thanks all.
Cedar is actually very light wood and where we are, it is very rot resistant, I know fence posts that have been in the ground for a very long time and are barely affected. And if we mill it ourselves the cost is not as much an issue as the availability.

I would like to paint the outside to keep the pretty red color. I saw someone use fiberglass resin, any expertise with that?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Weight and cost. If you don't care about cost, do something on the lines of a WBC hive, although you could keep it simpler. Just make another set of boxes that are 3" bigger in both directions and a bottom board with a one by four for the edge that is also 3" bigger. Then stack the second set of boxes over (outside of) the first set of regular boxes. This leaves a 3/4" air space all the way around and will be better insulation than a two by, while dividing the lifting to make it light weight. If you don't care about weight, then make them out of two bys. Just make sure you have the same inside measurements and you will have to make your own covers to fit. It would help to make your own bottom as it's hard to tell where the bottom is when it's recessed 3/4" all the way around.


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

The additional R-value of using slightly thicker wood is negligible. Pine (and I know you are planning on using cedar so it will be marginally different, though I don't whether it would be more or less) is scarcely more than R-l per inch. Contrast that with ordinary pink foam insulation that's R-5 per inch.

Successful natural bee colonies have walls between R-5 and R-15.

If retaining warmth in the winter is your goal, then insulation, applied as foam panels to the outside of the hives might be your best bet. I have 4" of foam (two, two-inch thick layers) on all four sides of my hives. (That is nominally R-20, but I downgrade that because the panels are not tightly sealed to the outer walls, just ratchet strapped around them.) Plus other insulation in the form of quilt boxes and additional insulation over head, and some experimental insulation within the hive boxes (displacing some frames). This winter I am also experimenting with some other methods to keep the heat generated by the clustered bees within the hive, while keeping the hive environment dry and also well-ventilated.

Enj.


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## Fetustician (Feb 23, 2015)

Thanks Michael and Enjambres,
These are exactly the type of feedback I was looking for. Your solutions are more practical than my idea of thick walls.
Enjambres: why no insulation below and on top?


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## BeeHopper (Feb 19, 2015)

If you create a dead space between the foam and wood via paint sticks it would add an R value of 3. I think Palmer (winters bees in Vermont) and a lot of other farmers just use tar paper.


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## sharpdog (Jun 6, 2012)

Canadian supers are almost all 7/8" wall thickness. Stronger joints, less splitting and deeper handles are the result. I much prefer them, even if they are 12% heavier.


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

Well, on top of my hives I have:

1) Quilt box (@4" high filled with shavings) and a vent shim;

2) 1.5" of foam above that, tucked up inside my wooden telecover (no inner cover during the winter);

3) (New experiment this year) On top of the hive's telecover I have set an assortment of empty deep hive bodies and medium supers covered with a separate telecover on top of each. Some are empty and some are filled with bigs of shippng peanuts, or fiberglass insulation. This creates, at a minimum, a dead air space, or dead air space filled with insulative materials. It seems to work fine, but creates an extra layer of fuss whenever I want to pop the top, such as when re-supplying sugar bricks. It was just a whim I had in December; don't know if I'll do it again. It helped even out the height of my stacks which is useful for another reason.

4) I also cover my hives (which are all bunched together in a line) with a tarp to keep moisture from getting between them. Above that tarp (also added on a whim about six weeks ago) I laid a row of political signs positioned so they stick out in front of the face of the hives about 6 or 7 inches. I overlapped them to create a sort of shingled effect and strapped them down. Since then we've had endless snow and extreme cold. The layers of insulation below have allowed the "roof of snow" on top of the signs to build up to a depth of about 20" . The signs slant slightly downward and direct amy melt drips away from the front of the hive. If removing the extra boxes of dead air space is a pain (and it is) this current arrangement is much, much more complicated. But the weather has not cooperated with removing it so far. 

I don't insulate below the hive because the bees aren't down there anyway. I run both solid and SBB (for varroa counting), plus a wind shim, below my lowest brood chamber. I doubt my bees have been down there in months - they use their upper entrances all winter. I winter in taller, more vertical, stacks than most people do, so the fact that the resources in the lower boxes have been bypassed, for now, is not a problem - they've got tons of chow above and it's much warmer up there, too. (I know "bees don't heat the box, just the cluster" ...... I'm just reporting what my temp probes tell me.)

Below everything is a short section of Metro-style metal shelving which keeps my bottoom boards up and off their platform (and therefore dry) and makes shifting my huge stacks around very easy - even when they are four, 10-frame deeps and filled with honey.

Enj.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

I like the 7/8" thick wooden ware from Betterbee. The 7/8" wall boxes are noticeable more sturdy than a 3/4" wall box:

http://www.betterbee.com/hives-and-components/wooden-hive-equipment.asp


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

I have to inspect hives for a guy who makes all his boxes from 2 inch timber. He has a claimed 400 hives although I've never seen them all, he's also a little eccentric.

I have seen no difference in the bees, but what I can say is that extra weight can tip a box from heavy, to very heavy, makes everything hard work.


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## Catsailor2008 (Jan 4, 2022)

Fetustician said:


> Hi,
> I am new to this and I would like some feedback from experience users. I read about all sorts of problems with cold hives in the winter. I am tempted to build mine and was wondering if there was any over ridding reasons to use 3/4" aside that it is cheap and plentiful and of course lighter then 1/5". I was planing on milling some Eastern Red Cedar into 1.5" and use those boards.
> Inside dimensions would be the usual to be able to use standard equipment.
> 
> ...


I am in Charlotte NC and have two new cypress hives (configured in 2xdeep and 1 x med). I like to work with wood and have 10 in wide 5/4 red cedar stacked and dried. I thought of wrapping the hives with this material , just tack or screw it to the have bodies. Not so concerned about winterizing but maybe it would help keep the hive cooler when we hit thos 90--95 degree days in July & August. I What do you think ? Did you try your idea ? This is Jan 4 2022.


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

this is an old thread so the original OP may no longer be around.
IF you have red cedar in 10 inch width and at 5/4, rather than wrap old hives I would make a few new ones from it..
to keep cool or to make warmer 1 inch XPS would wrap just as well.
seems the 5/4 you have is better material than insulation. IMO
If making boxes, keep the inside dimensions constant, so the frames still fit.

GG


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## JustBees (Sep 7, 2021)

Be sure to honor bee space where it applies, I think the frames sit 1/8" down at the top and 1/4" up from the bottom. 
This gives 3/8" bee space between the frames when the boxes are stacked.

Also don't make a lot of boxes until you are sure of your dimensions, 
It can be frustrating to deal with goofy equipment and you may be stuck with it for the years it is serviceable.


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