# Italian vs Carniolas



## NeilV (Nov 18, 2006)

The main difference is in the way the hives will manage their populations.

Carniolans will shrink the brood much more than the Italians when conditions are not good for brood rearing, and then expand more in the early spring.

Italians will shrink the brood area some when there is no nectar flow and during winter. However, not as much as Carnis.

Which is best for you depends on your climate and what you want to do with your bees. I like Italians, because I have a strong early nectar flow that's over about the end of June. I want hives to have enough bees that they can start storing nectar right now. If I kept Carnis, they would be using nectar to build up the population right now. Commercial guys who pollinate almonds like Italians, because they need to have strong hives by February to get paid for pollination. 

If you had a longer winters and a longer summer nectar flow, then the ability of the carnis to conserve stores would be a plus. I'm not sure what your weather is like, but I'd think Washington might be good for Carnis. However, the weather there is probably not so cold that Italians are a bad choice. Carnis probably would be more suited for the mountains.

My understanding is that Carnis are very gentle, but Italians can also be very gentle. 

Contact local beekeepers to see what works for them and/or give both a try. 

Even better, try to find a local beekeper who selects from local stock that may just be survivor mutts, and you'll have bees that are suited to where you live.


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## Katharina (May 2, 2011)

I love my carnies. I choose them because we are up in the mountains with long winters. 6 months of winter is normal up here. Winter difference. Carnies go down to the size of a softball, Italians are more like a football. 
I house my carnies in 8 frame equipment, because they don't need to much during winter. They also consume less during winter due to their cluster size. The tend to swarm, so you need to manage them in spring. Overall I love them.
Nothing wrong with Italians either. Make your decision based on your climate. Also see what is around you. Bees interbreed, so you may end up with mutts as off springs after a new queen emerges and mates.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Basic generalizations here:

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesraces.htm

But in reality bees differ more from colony to colony than race to race...


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## Konrad (Oct 7, 2004)

I started with Italians,... they are hot, hard workers and can bring in more honey then Carniolas.
About 2 years later I got Carniolas, more gentle, easier to work with...now they're mixed race,...still nice to work with, I love them.


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## concrete-bees (Jun 20, 2009)

here in Washington its true that carnis do great - and they do great if you keep them home 
they have small clusters in winter and this is good due to the fact that the eat less !!!! but build up for almonds is VERY hard and cost us a chunk of change due to frame count in the almonds this year - 
italians eat a lot of honey in winter as they never really shut down - but they hold a big cluster as long as you have food for them 

for the beginner id say use carni's here in washington - you will be happy with them 
also Sue Sobey and us are working on a better bee for Washington state - infact she moved from Cali to Wash to make this happen ...... so if someone who has been breeding bees for over 30 years moves 1000 miles north ..... there must be a reason !!!!! 

hope this helps in your hives


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## sammyjay (May 2, 2011)

It depends on your location and preferances what's better or not, but I liked my carniolons better.


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