# Weighing Beehives-Winter Weight



## LAlldredge (Aug 16, 2018)

It was nice seeing a new video Michael. We've worn the other ones out.  Thanks for stopping by the beginner area. We need it.


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## username00101 (Apr 17, 2019)

Michael,

What is your opinion about wrapping hives together, rather than individually?

We live in a very cold climate like yours, and I was planning on wrapping 4 or 5 colonies all pushed together in a row with foam board between and on the outside.

Thanks.


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## mitch30 (Feb 8, 2014)

Michael Palmer said:


> A new video on determine winter weight in my beehives.
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRkbSDqafG4


Michael

Thank you for the great video on to the in site of how you weigh your hives. It so easy that I could even weigh my hive that was a triple and weigh 190.

Thanks

Mitchel Wayne


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

last year I did not have the paint cans cause I have never got around to buying some and I run all mediums. I did have bunches of coffee cans. I left the top off the coffee cans and then put a little straw in the top and just set them up right on the top bars with no spacers. Because the coffee cans were around 31 ounce cans, the total feed at one time was only right around two gals. I only write this for those that run all mediums. a 31 ounce coffee can will fit in a singe medium box and a paint can takes two mediums.

I love michael palmer vidios and try to steal as many ideals as I can from them and then screw up a good thing by sloppily adding my tilt to it to fit my bee keeping or use things I have with out buying stuff. 

I learned a quick rule of thumb process of mixing sugar water (2/1) from an inter view video that michael gave and it has made messing with mixing great for a brain dead person.

Thanks for the videos michael.
gww


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## username00101 (Apr 17, 2019)

I tried multiple scales. Tried, some of the $30-50 digital packaging scales from amazon. Did not work, do not recommend.

I ordered this Rubbermaid scale, very similar to the one that Michael is using. Works perfectly.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006CJ34CO/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## aran (May 20, 2015)

username00101 said:


> Michael,
> 
> What is your opinion about wrapping hives together, rather than individually?
> 
> ...


i did this last year and all the hives did well. I dont know if its really necessary but with the small number of hives i have it isnt too much bother.


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## Fivej (Apr 4, 2016)

Thanks for the vid MP. Those shims did not look like they were ripped to 11/32" though. J


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## Juhani Lunden (Oct 3, 2013)

Michael Palmer said:


> A new video on determine winter weight in my beehives.
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRkbSDqafG4


Nice video! 
Why don´t you use top feeders?


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Top feeders woks well...in warm weather. Once the weather turns cold, bees won't leave the cluster to work in the feeder. 

Then again, I have too many colonies and don't want to buy/make hundreds of hive top feeders. also, I can measure more accurately how much I feed each colony.


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## Juhani Lunden (Oct 3, 2013)

Michael Palmer said:


> Top feeders woks well...in warm weather. Once the weather turns cold, bees won't leave the cluster to work in the feeder.
> 
> Then again, I have too many colonies and don't want to buy/make hundreds of hive top feeders. also, I can measure more accurately how much I feed each colony.



Here in Finland all honey crops are over by mid August (usually much earlier), the first frosts come usually mid September, sometimes 10th sometimes 20th. My bees, although in un-isolated (18 mm wood or plywood) hives, work well after night frosts too, when the start has been earlier, usually end of August (this year 25th of August). Even after a cold frost night bees "wait" for the solution, many times filling the corridor of the feeder entirely. 

I always weigh my hives too, and give sugar solution according to that. 20 liter buckets, it is easy to take 5, 7 or 10 liters at a time. 

Some beekeepers use 30 liter top feeders.


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## username00101 (Apr 17, 2019)

What's the general possibility of a late season swarm, when bulk feeding and bringing hives up to target weight?


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## Storm (Apr 6, 2017)

I cant wait to see your "Spring Swarm Prevention" video! Please place it on your list.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

username00101 said:


> What's the general possibility of a late season swarm, when bulk feeding and bringing hives up to target weight?


About none


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## username00101 (Apr 17, 2019)

At this point, my only regret I have is not having purchased that Rubbermaid scale as soon as I found Michael's video. 

I wasted a week of warm weather ordering and returning less expensive scales that were inconsistent and inaccurate. 

This video has allowed me to bring most of my hives up to weight for the winter.

Thanks for taking the time to make the video and post it here, Michael.


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## MichiganMike (Mar 25, 2014)

My hive stand configuration does not allow me to use the type of scale MP uses but I do weigh my hives and have for the last five years. I use a digital game scale to weigh front and back then add them together. This method may or may not be on the money but it works for me. I use 8 frame mediums stacked 4 high with a minimum target of 135 lbs. I made a video a few years ago if you’re interested. https://youtu.be/kdyYdDIogZ8


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## Cjj (Dec 12, 2015)

Michigan Mike I use the same method and scale, been doing it for years I shoot for 125 lbs in 2 deeps works great for me


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Cjj said:


> Michigan Mike I use the same method and scale, been doing it for years I shoot for 125 lbs in 2 deeps works great for me


Ditto, but I weigh left and right sides. Sliding whole hive onto a scale would not fly with my hive stand arrangement.


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## Juhani Lunden (Oct 3, 2013)

crofter said:


> Ditto, but I weigh left and right sides. Sliding whole hive onto a scale would not fly with my hive stand arrangement.


I weigh right (and left) sides with this (pretty much identical): http://grb.nordicshops.com/product.html/hangvag-mekanisk-kc-08
Usually the needed accuracy is possible to get with weighing one side only. 

I have just replaced the upper hook with a handle and the lower hook with a longer one.


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## username00101 (Apr 17, 2019)

crofter said:


> Ditto, but I weigh left and right sides. Sliding whole hive onto a scale would not fly with my hive stand arrangement.


125lbs in Canada?

For a double deep ?


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Juhani Lunden said:


> I weigh right (and left) sides with this (pretty much identical): http://grb.nordicshops.com/product.html/hangvag-mekanisk-kc-08
> Usually the needed accuracy is possible to get with weighing one side only.
> 
> I have just replaced the upper hook with a handle and the lower hook with a longer one.


Juhannni, from hook to handle is about 20 inches on my setup. Once I see that colonies are fairly even weight then I just grab one side for progress checks. My gross weight of 125 lbs is with telescopic cover removed. It takes about 30 seconds per hive and very little grunting!


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

username00101 said:


> 125lbs in Canada?
> 
> For a double deep ?


Yes. Carni type bees. In addition I will put 4 or 5 lbs of moistened sugar over newspaper on frame tops. Medium super of shavings on top.


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## Juhani Lunden (Oct 3, 2013)

crofter said:


> Juhannni, from hook to handle is about 20 inches on my setup. Once I see that colonies are fairly even weight then I just grab one side for progress checks. My gross weight of 125 lbs is with telescopic cover removed. It takes about 30 seconds per hive and very little grunting!


:thumbsup:

My limit for feeding is 50kg (total weigh, 2 shallow 12 frame boxes, about 1,5 deep Langstroth)

Usually they have +10 kg food left in spring.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Juhani Lunden said:


> :thumbsup:
> 
> My limit for feeding is 50kg (total weigh, 2 shallow 12 frame boxes, about 1,5 deep Langstroth)
> 
> Usually they have +10 kg food left in spring.


I have read somewhere that the bees cannot clean up the remaining honey in frame corners under clustering conditions when remaining reserves get much below 15 lbs. Too much risk of them getting locked on brood and starving.

I could very likely get by at a bit lighter gross weight but since it gets used up anyway I dont think it would be a wise gamble.


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## Tweeter (Apr 19, 2017)

MP, thanks for the idea with the epoxy lined paint cans. Put 45 2mm holes in on the CNC.
The girls are taking 2 gallons down in a couple of days. Use to use top feeders and would 
take 4-5 times as long, especially on cold nights. Brought the weight up quickly.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Tweeter said:


> The girls are taking 2 gallons down in a couple of days. Use to use top feeders and would
> take 4-5 times as long, especially on cold nights.


Exactly


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## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

Tweeter said:


> MP, thanks for the idea with the epoxy lined paint cans. Put 45 2mm holes in on the CNC.
> The girls are taking 2 gallons down in a couple of days. Use to use top feeders and would
> take 4-5 times as long, especially on cold nights. Brought the weight up quickly.


45 is a lot of holes! Be careful that it is not "raining" syrup on to the bees.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

It does seem like a lot at first, especially at 2mm. But then again, I have 18 holes in a mason jar lid that I punch with my staple gun.


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## Tweeter (Apr 19, 2017)

mgolden said:


> 45 is a lot of holes! Be careful that it is not "raining" syrup on to the bees.


I find smaller than this is harder for them to get out a thick syrup. With 45 holes more bees can be feeding
at once. Once you turn the can over the vacuum prevents it from coming out, don't find it to be continuously
leaking.


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

6 penny =.12 inch (without CNC control)
2 mm =.0787 inch

Guess an old nail and a hammer is a little bigger hole.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

The combined area of the proposed 45 holes is about equal to a single 1/2" dia. hole. No way you need to accommodate such a flow potential!


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## username00101 (Apr 17, 2019)

One of the curious things I've noticed is that certain hives seem to need twice as much syrup to put on the same amount of weight.

I suspect this is because they're using the syrup to draw out incomplete combs?

In some hives, I'll give them 2 gallons, and they'll put on approximately 20lbs. On other hives, I'll give them 4 gallons and they struggle to add 20lbs.

I'm feeding 2+ gallons at a time, so I don't suspect they're using it for brood rearing, right?


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## gnor (Jun 3, 2015)

username00101 said:


> One of the curious things I've noticed is that certain hives seem to need twice as much syrup to put on the same amount of weight.


I have puzzled about that myself. I requeened 2 hives at the beginning of August and they were both in the 85 lb range by the beginning of September. After feeding 4 gallons of 2:1 with bucket feeders, hive #1 had gained 20 lb, while hive #2 had gained 6. Hive #2 is still light, so they have become a science experiment to see if they can make it through the Winter. Hive #2 has a good queen with a solid laying pattern, but I don't think they started with enough bees to keep the brood warm, so they were very slow to build up. Hive #1 had more bees, but a poor queen when they were requeened, so they had a better chance.
FEEDER: I've turned to the 1 gallon plastic buckets with a screen plug. I'm finding a lot more bees can get to the syrup, they don't drip, and they don't plug up. Next Spring, I'm going to put some into wide mouth mason jars for feeding nucs.


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## dudelt (Mar 18, 2013)

I have used quart mason jars for years and have never seen bees take the syrup that fast. The most I ever see taken is 2 quarts a day and that much is pretty rare. Is it possible that the holes are just too small and they cannot get it out quick enough? There are 10 or 15 holes in the lid of the jar.


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## Kamon A. Reynolds (Apr 15, 2012)

dudelt said:


> I have used quart mason jars for years and have never seen bees take the syrup that fast. The most I ever see taken is 2 quarts a day and that much is pretty rare. Is it possible that the holes are just too small and they cannot get it out quick enough? There are 10 or 15 holes in the lid of the jar.


It think it is just a matter of access. I run a very different system but it is nothing for strong double to take in a gallon of prosweet or 1:1 in 12 hours in my frame feeders. 45 holes is alot


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## BowersBees (Oct 4, 2017)

@ Michael Palmer- How many paint cans do you keep on hand for fall feeding? Enough to feed them all at once (2-5 cans per hive), or enough to feed x number of yards at a time?


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

A couple thousand I would guess. Enough to feed everyone what they need at once.


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## BowersBees (Oct 4, 2017)

Maybe silly question, but how are you cleaning all those cans at the end of feeding? And what do you do with excess syrup if any?


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

I don’t clean them.. extra syrup is stored in unheated shed and used in spring if necessary.. if the cans smell fermented on the inside the following fall, they get rinsed.


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

Does anyone have any suggestions how to turn on the sound for the video? I do not have my old laptop anymore - lost in the fire - and the Library computer is usually set to silent.


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

kilocharlie said:


> Does anyone have any suggestions how to turn on the sound for the video? I do not have my old laptop anymore - lost in the fire - and the Library computer is usually set to silent.


Did you catch the MattDavey post; On the Youtube Video, click on the "CC" icon to turn on Close Captions (Subtitles). Then on the "Settings" icon go to: Subtitles -> Auto Translate -> English

more data added to thread:https://www.beesource.com/forums/sh...larger-scale-commercial-grade-mobile-operator

(We all know of the kick in your teeth you got from the fire.
If I had an old laptop I would send it to you in the hope you would post more often.)


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## Beut Idaho (May 27, 2019)

CJJ,
If your target weight is 125 in double deep is that most every frame full of stores except for maybe a frame or so for cluster space? I'm partly thinking that the outer frames don't usually get filled well so I'm wondering how full the rest of the frames are.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

That is my target weight. 125 lbs. gross including bottom board, 2 deeps and inner cover (no telescope cover). The top box will be nearly solid frames of honey but center frames may have empty cells where the cluster is. That is more than enough for Carni bees but may not be enough for large colonies of italians that raised brood late into the fall. I have little experience with those robbers!


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## gnor (Jun 3, 2015)

username00101 said:


> Michael,
> 
> What is your opinion about wrapping hives together, rather than individually?
> 
> ...


The bees will only heat the cluster, and the air in the hive will be almost the same as the outside air. You also don't want them too warm, as they will eat more feed.
It's important to insulate the top to keep condensation from dripping on the bees, keep them out of the wind, and provide top and bottom ventilation so they can get rid of excess moisture and CO2.
The main thing: make sure the mites are under control starting in August, and see that they have enough feed to last them through the Winter. Michael Palmer likes his double deeps to weigh 120-130 lb. In Nova Scotia, we like to see 60-80 lb of honey, or a weight of 100-120 lb for a double deep. After that, the bees will look after themselves.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

The lightest doubles I ever weighed, with bees, at the beginning of October was 70 pounds. Add to that 70 or 80 pounds I get 140-150. That's why I suggest the weight I do. If you winter double nucs you will see that the bees in the two nucs form one cluster with the divider between them. I assume that if you push two stand alone nucs together, the same heat sharing thing would happen. It has been shown that on the prairies of Manitoba, setting the nucs in large blocks does heal in wintering in that harsh climate.


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## dudelt (Mar 18, 2013)

I want to thank you again for showing how to weigh beehives. I weighed all my hives today. The hive that I was positive was the heaviest, turned out to be one of the lightest. I ended up weighing it again just to be sure and then weighed a few more to double check my process. Lifting the back of the hive may give a pretty good guestimate but the guestimates can sure vary. Now I have a surefire way to know where all my hives weights are at any time. Now if someone can come up with an easy way to weigh top bar hives...


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