# Swarm Harvester



## Bsupplier

The swarm harvester was designed by Cleo Hogan who is a great beekeeper here in Kentucky. This can be used to trap new starts from bee trees or to trap bees from buildings.
The wooden piece (that looks like a tubular rectangle with cross bars attached) is placed over the hole in the bee tree. This is fastened by nailing or strapping. Next open a heavy duty contractor garbage bag. Slice into a flat piece and cut an x in the middle and slide over the piece fitting over the hole in the bee tree. Attach the garbage bag to tree with duct tape. This is just closing off any possible ways for the bees to move but through the tunnel. Next you will need a stand to support the swarm box. An old deer stand works good or build your own support.. Place swarm box over the tunnel. This is in the back of box and is actually a larger tunnel. We have left you slack in case you need it. Next, duct tape around this. Place 3 frames of drawn comb or stores in box to the right of the tunnel.
Immediatley the guard bees will move to the front of the harvester. Allow the bees to get used to the tunnel for a couple of days. After a couple of days return to the harvester and close off the tunnel inside the box. The tunnel has a one way bee escape built into it. Now the bees have to use the escape on there way out but cant return to the tree. When they return from the field they will have to use the drawn comb for depositing there stores and they will. Once these frames are filled and full of bees transfer them to a nuc and add a queen or cell. Replace frames in the harvester. Cleo has taken up to 9 new starts from a single bee tree using this device. If you leave in place you will eventually get the queen or look at it as a sustainable resource and only take a few starts a year. This is beautiful in it's simple, well thought out design. Cat# 890-SH
Thank You


----------



## rockdog200

Thanks I will have to get one soon.


----------



## bluegrass

How does it catch the feral colonies queen if left in place long enough?


----------



## magnet-man

I don't see how it can get the queen. The queen is only going to leave when the hive swarms and the hive isn't going to swarm if you are taking all of the field bees. This is no different than putting a screen cone on a bee tree and an hive with a queen on a stand next to it. Read about it in an old bee book.


----------



## bluegrass

That is my thought on it.. Not worth much for starts if it is only providing field bees and stores.


----------



## slickbrightspear

would she not eventually come out for food when they run out of honey coming in


----------



## bluegrass

No:
She is fed by other bees. She does not go looking for food, it is brought to her. Once her attendant bees reach about 22 days old they become field bees and will leave the hive... She will then starve for lack of attendants.

It would be a very rare occasion that a queen comes out of a trapped colony.


----------



## Bsupplier

To be honest I have never physically used one of these before.
Iam going by the information provided by the inventor of this, Cleo Hogan.
Cleo has kept bees for over 30 years and speaks with passion about this.
He makes no money on the resale of this product and would have no reason to mislead me. I'm looking forward to finding a bee tree to try this on.
Thank You,
Walter T. Kelley Co.


----------



## charmd2

I ordered one, It looks like a trap out, but I was interested enough in his design to spend the money and give it a shot this summer. I'm sure I will get another one of those "I have bees in my tree" calls..


----------



## magnet-man

> has kept bees for over 30 years and speaks with passion about this.


He may honestly think he will capture the queen. I knew one old beekeeper that still believed in beating on pots and pans would call a swarm down.


----------



## bluegrass

I know an old timer in the mountains who for some reason thinks that the workers are male and refer to them as such :lookout:


----------



## alpha6

magnet-man said:


> I knew one old beekeeper that still believed in beating on pots and pans would call a swarm down.


What??!! This doesn't work??!! :doh:


----------



## Beeslave

If you try anything enough times it will eventually work.


----------



## magnet-man

alpha6 said:


> What??!! This doesn't work??!! :doh:


Well it does work when ever the bees cluster low to the ground.


----------



## Bsupplier

Hi All,
Cleo will be posting on his invention when he returns from vacation in about two weeks. He will clarify any questions you may have about the swarm harvester.
Thank You,
Walter T. Kelley Co.


----------



## Cleo C. Hogan Jr

My name is Cleo Hogan and I am the developer/inventor of the Kelly Swarm Harvester. Over the past 15 years I have trapped hundreds of starts using this method. Unfortunately, the details given by Kelly above left out one very important step in the harvesting. That is, the introduction of a frame of unsealed brood (NO BEES) from one of your hives. This will bring out the Nurse Bees, Cleaners, Ventilators, etc. This is what will also bring out the Queen. So...Be very Careful when you move the trap that you don't take the queen with the trap. If you do, the colony will likely die.(it will only survive if the parent colony makes themselves a new queen.)

If anyone has questions on this harvester, I will be glad to send you a complete set of directions, with color photos, and answer any questions you have. I make nothing off the sale of this device. My reward is helping other bee keepers. Additionally I would not allow Kelly Bee Company to put their good name on the line by selling a device that doesn't work.
cchoganjr


----------



## Cleo C. Hogan Jr

Yesterday I posted a little about the swarm harvester. I am in Florida and using a public Library computer and was running out of time to answer Magnet Man, Bluegrass, Charmed 2, and Rochdog, about how the trap will catch the feral queen, and also that the harvester is no better than the wire cone method for trapping bees. First, the postings are absolutely correct about the queen not leaving a hive to go into the wire cone method. However, this harvester is different from the wire cone method, because when properly applied, the trap becomes a sealed, integral part of the original hive. The harvester is nothing more or nothing less than an additional chamber, (deep super, or nuc) for the queen to lay eggs in, which she will readily do. As soon as you put the deep frame with unsealed brood,(NO BEES) in the harvester, nurse bees, housekeepers, attendants, etc will move into the harvester to prepare it for eggs, because it is just another place for the queen to lay eggs, and the field bees to deposit pollen and nectar. In early spring a good queen is looking for any cells to lay in. You must check very carefully when moving the trap that you do not move the queen with it. If so, the original colony will likely die(unless they can make themselves a queen, and I will explain how they can do this if you want to know) Additionally, if you place a new queen with your trap after you move it, they will likely kill her and you are out the cost of the new queen. A good tree, old house, car etc, will get you about 3 to 5 starts (3 to 5 pounds of bees each) each year if taken about 2 to 3 weeks apart. The beauty of this method is you get the right "MIX" of bees to make a good start which will rapidly take off with the new queen that you place in the trap after you move it. In Kentucky, we have to stop trapping in early July to allow the start to build sufficiently and store enough for survival during the winter. In 2005 I took 9 good starts from a tree I was trying to kill out. Mor likely tho is 3 to 5 per year. If anyone needs a better set of instructions, send a self addressed stamped long envelope to P.O. Box 27, Park City, Ky 42160 and I will send you instructions with color photos of each step of the trapping method. I do this because I want to help bee keepers. I get nothing from Kelly Bee Company on the sale of the harvesters. I am in Florida and will not be back to Kentucky for about 2 weeks. I will send them then. Thanks. 
cchoganjr


----------



## Bsupplier

Thanks Cleo,
I appologize to you and beesource members for not explaining this clearly. I hope you have a great vacation!
Walter T. Kelley Co.


----------



## Ross

I think its far more likely that the trapped bees produce a queen from the frame of open brood you provided than the old queen coming out. This would be the same as taking a split from a hive and providing eggs/brood to make a queen. I have never seen a queen come through a bee escape or a tunnel.


----------



## JBJ

Bee repellent can push the queen out of the old cavity during a trap out.


----------



## Cleo C. Hogan Jr

Ross....Try it sometime. Often you will get the queen the first day you put the unsealed brood in the trap. You know it is her, if the queen is in the trap, otherwise it would be greater than 16 days before the parent colony could cap a queen cell or make a queen cell around a fertile egg, and make themselves a queen. If you have a good colony it will only take 2 or 3 days to get your 3-5 pounds for the start. I don't think I have ever caught a queen through the funnel,(I don't think she would go through it.) and if you have a good tree, you won't have to block off the tunnel,(except to move it)(thereby making the bees go through the funnel) It only comes into play when continued trapping to kill the colony. You will get a good "mix" of bees and 3 to 5 pounds, within just a day or so of putting the 2 brood combs and the comb of unsealed brood in the trap.

For those of you in the local area,(you know these men) we have a couple of "good old boy bee keepers" that we are always kidding around with. Both of these men I highly admire and respect, it is just something we kid about. They have caught many starts with this trap. We say around here, "If Rodney Pullen, and Ronnie Houchens can use this trap and get starts, anyone can. Sometimes we throw Billy Joe Honeycutt in this same crew. It will work for you. Thanks. cchoganjr


----------



## Cleo C. Hogan Jr

cchoganjr.... One more thing....Someone said they had 2 trees,(tulip trees), and the entrances were 20 to 30 feet off the ground. I would not recommend using the trap that high off the ground unless you have a bucket truck to use to work it. You can secure the trap using a portable deer stand or using cables, but it is a little dangerous to be working that high off the ground. I wouldn't recommend trapping those. Thanks... cchoganjr


----------



## Cleo C. Hogan Jr

Reference JBJ. "bee repellant will drive the queen out in a trapping situation"

True, however she may just fly away if you drive her out,(and take the bees with her), and you don't get bees to make starts if you drive her out. and she flys away with the colony. I can't remember ever getting a queen to come through the screen cone method, since she would be leaving her hive, and normally that just doesn't happen. In that method (screen cone funnel method) what most often happens is, you weaken the colony until it can no longer support itself and it dies. Since the swarm harvester is a sealed, integral part of her colony, she will move back and forth between the feral colony(tree, old car, house, etc) and the trap to lay eggs, since the trap is nothing more, nothing less, than another chamber to lay eggs in. It is just part of her hive.

I hope this info has been helpful. As any of you start trapping this year, I would be interested to hear your experiences. cchoganjr


----------



## charmd2

Cleo, I'm still game at trying it out.  I've got it sitting in my living room waiting for about four more weeks. I'll give my review after I've tested it. If it doesnt' work as described, with minor modifications I can make it a funnel trap.


----------



## Cleo C. Hogan Jr

ref charmd2......
If you have any problems with it, contact me ( [email protected]) and I will be more than happy to help you get started with it and make it work.

I love helping bee keepers, teaching classes, and giving demonstrations at our State Parks. I NEVER charge for anything I do to help bee keepers.. Thanks.. cchoganjr


----------



## gpr

Would a video of you setting it up be possible as a teaching aid on how to use the harvester? Would you be consider selling plans for the harvester? The cost of the harvester seems very reasonable, but I have found that the cost of freight is sometimes almost as much as the product. Just some thoughts. Thanks for your time.


----------



## Cleo C. Hogan Jr

TO.....GPR.. I am giving a demonstration at the Warren County/ Oakland Bee Keepers, Not sure what the group"s official title is, (John Spoo's People) meeting the last of April. I am trying to set up to have it viedo taped. If you could, contact me at [email protected] or 270-749-5191. I will tell you more about it.

Thanks....cchoganjr


----------



## Beestung

hi, i'm thinking of purchasing a swarm harvester,(to catch some feral bees) but i'm not sure if it will fit my needs. first let me say i'm very new bee, have my first package of bees, on way. but my uncle told me of a feral bee tree a few weeks and today he show it to me. its at ground level and i watch them come and go for 20mins out of the hole in the tree. so my question is will the harvester trap enough bees for me to get start from,(i'll just need to get a queen) when i have noting but foundation and empty hive bodies to work . please forgive me if the question is dumb, i don't want to kill out the colony, but a endless supply of bees from it. thanks for ur time and help


----------



## Cleo C. Hogan Jr

Beestung..... yes the swarm harvester will catch you a swarm if the feral colony is average or above average strength. However, I like to wait until feral colonies have built up in the Spring before I start trapping.

If you do not have drawn brood comb and access to unsealed brood, you would likely be just as well off using the funnel cone method to trap feral colonies and it won't cost you anything. You can easily make everything you need. Get any good bee book and it will describe the cone funnel method. You will not kill the colony unless you leave the trap on it for an extended period of time and catch all the field bees and deplete the colony of its honey stores.

After the swarm you have ordered gets started, you should be able to take a brood comb and an unsealed brood comb from it. At that point the swarm harvester will work very nicely. contact me at [email protected] if you have questions and I can send you a set of instructions for the swarm harvester that includes photos of the trap and how it works.

No question is a dumb question if you don't know the answer. The only way to learn is to ask. cchoganjr


----------



## slickbrightspear

Cleo
please let me know when you are going to do that demo and where at. I would like to try to make it to that one.


----------



## Cleo C. Hogan Jr

Slickbrightspear... O.K. Do You know John Spoo? He is the one who asked me to do it. I believe it is the 26th of April. I will get with John and get back with you. Thanks... cchoganjr


----------



## slickbrightspear

I know a john from up there but am not sure what his last name is.


----------



## Batman

Cleo,
I was told about your product at the end of last year. By this time it was really to late to do much with what I am dealing with, but from the information I have seen so far, it sounds like there are 2 ways you can do this. One way is to place it up there with a frame of unsealed brood, but no bees from the parent hive to draw the colony and queen into the harvester, thus taking the whole colony with you. The second way is to just use the harvester to make splits off of the parent hive, leaving the parent colony up and running. Does that sound about right?
What I am looking at is a colony of bees in a brick pillar at a friends house. They don't mind the bees there, but don't want to see them die off either. I placed a 5 frame nuc on top of the pillar right before winter with some drawn frames filled with honey to entice them to come up out of the pillar. I think pulling the colony will still be my plan if I can, but I did tell the people that I might just use the existing colony to make splits every so often to build new colonies. Either way they seemed fine, but I think they would prefer to have them gone all together, without killing them of course. The pillar is outside, if I pull the whole colony out, I guess the honey and comb left behind will just be a free for all for the taking but whatever robber wants to take it.


----------



## Cleo C. Hogan Jr

Batman.... You have the system correct. Introduction of a frame with some unsealed brood on it will draw nurse bees, cleaners, etc. to prepare the combs in the Swarm Harvester for the Queen to lay eggs. All the while, the field bees will be depositing pollen and nectar in the combs. You may or may not get the queen on the first or second harvest, it really depends on how much room she has to lay eggs in the feral colony. And especially the time of year. In Spring a good Queen is looking for places to lay eggs. You always need to check before you move the bees to make sure she is not in the trap if you want to just take starts. If she is, put her back into the big tunnel and she will go back to the feral colony. If you are wanting to eliminate the colony, and she is in the harvester, just leave her there and move it, or just move the frames. You will have to continue trapping because the feral colony may make themselves a new queen. With continued trapping, you will weaken the feral colony, deplete it of honey, and the colony will die. Unfortunately, more likely than not, if there are other bees in the area that swarm, one of them may move into the old feral colony combs. You can contaminate the comb with insecticide if that is permitted, and lessen the chance of a swarm moving in. Hope this has been helpful.
cchoganjr


----------



## Cleo C. Hogan Jr

Slickbrightspear..... I am giving a program on the Swarm Harvester at the Edmonson County Bee Club, 6:30 P.M. Tuesday 6 April at the Edmonson County Extension Office, Brownsville.. I think the next one is Warren County Bee Club, 27 April. Don't have any other details on it yet. cchoganjr


----------



## slickbrightspear

Thank you I will try to make the edmonson county one.


----------



## Bens-Bees

magnet-man said:


> I knew one old beekeeper that still believed in beating on pots and pans would call a swarm down.


I do too, my Grandad... it worked for him and is called "drumming the bees".


----------



## slickbrightspear

Mr Hogan
Thank you for the demo of the swarm harvester and your time. It made a lot more sense to me when I saw it in person.


----------



## SpringQueenBee

I'm looking forward to trying this swarm harvester out on some feral colonies that folks want removed from their homes and outbuilding foundations. The cone method was just not working out very well. Thanks for your help over the phone, it was wonderful hearing a voice and being able to ask specific questions!

One of the locations has a lot of 'entryway' all round the gingerbread of a porch roof. The bees ball up outside this area on evenings of hot afternoons as the field workers all return to the colony, only to find it too hot inside for them all to be inside. The ball of bees is just huge! I think I could take two to four hives off this colony, or more depending on how many are actually inside there. Some cooler days there are not so many. Our home gals are building queen cells so we are able to provide our own queens to any new hives we get off these ferals, even if we don't get the queens out.


----------

