# Swarm united with queenles hive FIGHT!



## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

Who told you that?


----------



## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

A "newspaper combine" is a generally more accepted way of combining a group of queenless bees with others that have a queen. More on that here:

http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/unitenewspaper.html


----------



## beemanluke (Mar 5, 2014)

An old beekeeper and also read something on by david Cushman
http://dave-cushman.net/bee/uniteflour.html


----------



## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

I thought it was an essential oil with sugar water in a spray bottle that allowed you to mask their pheromones and combine 2 small hives...


----------



## fieldsofnaturalhoney (Feb 29, 2012)

Those seasoned beekeepers , I am with Ruthiesbees & Rader, these are the only two ways I have tried to combine.


----------



## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

beemanluke said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I tried to unite a queenless hive with a swarm today and instead I sent the swarm on a suicide mission.
> 
> ...


Before I make my suggestion, let me qualify that I have not had the good fortune to have to make this combination. I would hive the swarm separately and do a newspaper combine.


----------



## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

fieldsofnaturalhoney;117 I am with Ruthiesbees & Rader said:


> There is one more way, and it is the only one I use. It is called the double screen. Run the two colonies with a double screen for 10 days, 2 weeks, or longer if you like. Then remove the screen at your convenience, move all frames into one colony. Never failed for me.
> 
> Sometimes the newspaper method does not work, if the bees chew through the paper too quickly. I keep a few double screens handy and place on the hive and then forget about them for a while.
> 
> cchoganjr


----------



## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

I have often shaken a few frames of the hive bees in front of the entrance, let them start running back in, and then dump the swarm on top of them. They all run in together as one happy family. Your results may vary, but it has never failed me.


----------



## fieldsofnaturalhoney (Feb 29, 2012)

Cleo C. Hogan Jr said:


> There is one more way, and it is the only one I use. It is called the double screen. Run the two colonies with a double screen for 10 days, 2 weeks, or longer if you like. Then remove the screen at your convenience, move all frames into one colony. Never failed for me.
> 
> Sometimes the newspaper method does not work, if the bees chew through the paper too quickly. I keep a few double screens handy and place on the hive and then forget about them for a while.
> 
> cchoganjr


Cleo I use double screens also, but mainly for overwintering smaller hives on top of larger ones. Never occurred to me that I could use them to combine hives. Obviously the two screens keep the colonies separate, but it can not stop the pheromones from drifting up or down? What is it that the double screen does to prevent an all out slaughter which beemanluke witnessed once it is removed? Do the pheromones some how gel together to create a neutral smell, or is it that both colonies are "use to" the others pheromone? Do/Could the queens lay in harmony for a while until one meets her demise? :scratch:


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

A lot of smoke would work better than flour in my experience. Newpaper is pretty reliable...


----------



## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

fieldsofnaturalhoney... 

beemanluke's question was about combining a queenless hive and a swarm. If you leave the double screen on for an extended time, (and I normally do) you will find that lots of the bees will have found the other entrance and joined the other colony on their own. 

This process is much the same as introducing a new queen in a screened queen cage. As soon as the odor becomes one, the queen is safe. In this case, as soon as the odor becomes one, (from the colony that has the queen) the bees are safe to remove screen and combine. Queenless bees will be happy to combine with a colony that has a queen, just takes a little time getting used to her. Parent colony does not care about the bees over them, (they have a queen) the same as overwintering a nuc over a larger colony, except you will only have one pheromone because you only have one queen.

I like it because of the simplicity of it. Put the double screen on, forget about it for a couple weeks, then break the two chambers down to the point the two colonies, (which will now be one) has enough bees to cover every available frame.

cchoganjr


----------



## fieldsofnaturalhoney (Feb 29, 2012)

Ahhh, yes, my thinking got ahead of what I read.


----------



## beemanluke (Mar 5, 2014)

Thanks everyone. I caught a standard swarm today...really easy then went to my next call. I opened the compost bin and the bees were everywhere. They arrived that morning and I arrived late afternoon. I was expecting the bees to be in a huddle and even drawing some comb from the lid but all I found was bees spread out everywhere, all over the side and floor. None on the roof. I couldn't find the queen and eventually they all started flying out till there was none left in the bin. Soon they returned and I scooped them into a box waiting for the rest to settle. most went into the box but now all have made there way back to the bin. My question.......do swarms leave the old hive without a queen? Im sure this swarm is queenless.


----------

