# The Ultimate Hive Feeder



## Pathfinder (Sep 7, 2014)

Hey guys I was wanting your input. I am pretty sure I have come up with the ultimate hive feeder. It would eliminate robbing and drowned bees, allow for significant more time between having to refill the feeder, possibly allow for syrup feeding through winter for most parts of the US and it would be simple and easy to use. I trying to find out if there would be a market for such a feeder before I start to devote my time and money into it. 

What do you all think? Id love to hear your thoughts. Also what else would you guys want out of a feeder? No idea is too crazy....

Another quick question...how much or often do Comercial Apiaries feed? The design has huge Comercial implications.


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## Pathfinder (Sep 7, 2014)

So I'm guessing that no one thinks trying to make a better feeder is a good idea?


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

Bees won't take liquid feed in the winters we have here in the US in most parts. Never a good idea to ADD moisture to a hive in the cold months unless you like dead bees come spring.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Pathfinder said:


> So I'm guessing that no one thinks trying to make a better feeder is a good idea?


People have to stumble across your Thread, read it, have something to say in response, and then Post it. An hour and a half isn't long at all for a Thread to go unanswered.

You've already come up with the design? And it is significantly different than anything else on the market today? Can you fill it without opening the hive? What does it look like? What makes it different?

I see by your profile that you are 33 years old and nothing else. Are you an engineer? Are you a beekeeper? How many hives and for how many years?


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

My feeder is just fine. A simple gallon can. Cheap enough. Easy to use. You can buy them everywhere. I can feed one can at a time, or up to 5 at once if heavy feeding is necessary for winter. When located on the top bars, the bees warm the syrup making Fall feeding easier. Any drip goes on the bees, and they clean it up immediately....prevents robbing. Feeder can be located on the feed hole for spring maintenance feeding. 

Convince me that I need something "better".


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## Pathfinder (Sep 7, 2014)

It was 13 hours if you look at the time stamps Sqkcrk.

Mr. Beeman thanks for the constructive input. I was wishy washy on the winter feeding idea. It was more of an afterthought anyhow. I can definitely see how condensation could be a problem. 

Just to clarify guys I'm not asking anyone to help me design it. I've already gotten it designed for the most part. I'm just trying to determin if people would be interested in a better system of feeding. I'm a new Beek and I'm not happy with the current feeders and was wondering if others feel the same way. Also I was wondering what you guys think is important for a feeder or you'd like to see in the perfect feeder.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Michael Palmer said:


> Convince me that I need something "better".


A better can? You use conventional paint can style or something with a thread on lid? Or do you not even use a lid?


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## Pathfinder (Sep 7, 2014)

Mr. Palmer how many hives do you feed at a time? What if I said my method could easily feed an entire hive yard at once and save you time?


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

You need to research the current methods of feeding and tell us what you're proposing would improve what we're already doing. Many of us are very satisfied with our current and varied methods of feeding, but of course always open to something new and better.

BTW, at this time of year, many beeks are not posting regularly.... we're out working in the yards....


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## mahobee (Apr 24, 2013)

I'm a hobbyist and I'm always open to a new feeder. The top qualities I look for are : Eliminate Drowning, easy access, drip free materials, decent quantity, easy to clean. Good materials always a plus.


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## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

Cheap would be a plus, too.
Tough to offer an opinion on so little info.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

Pathfinder said:


> Hey guys I was wanting your input. I am pretty sure I have come up with the *ultimate hive feeder*.


Check out this "ultimate bee feeder". 

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?248906-The-Collins-Ultimate-Bee-Feeder-in-Action


http://collinsbeefeeder.com/Home_Page.html


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

If it isn't as revolutionary as The Flow Hive I don't see how it can beat what's already on the market. But I do have a limited imagination.

Cheap. Easy to fill. Easily stored or always in the hive where it's needed. Drowns no or at least fewer bees. Easy to install. Those are some of the characteristics that come to my mind.

Michael Palmer runs around 800 hives and feeds those that need feeding. Which may or may not be all of them. If you don't mind me answering for you Michael.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

BeeCurious said:


> Check out this "ultimate bee feeder".
> 
> http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?248906-The-Collins-Ultimate-Bee-Feeder-in-Action


Is "Ultimate Bee Feeder" copyrighted? Better beware if it is.


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## Pathfinder (Sep 7, 2014)

Thanks again for the replies. I haven't named it yet that is just the subject title. As revolutionary as the FlowHive? Ehhh. That's my problem right now....getting feedback without giving too much of its workings away because it is different and I do not have a patent on it yet. Let me do this. I'll compare it to typical feeders and you all can tell me if you think it's something I should run with. I am a former Marine, Paramedic by day..new Beek by night that just happened to come up with an idea I think may make feeding hives, esspecially multiple hives, much simpler. 

Boardman Feeder: Mine doesn't allow for robbing and the amount of feed is exponentially more yet it is just as easy to handle. 

Hive top feeder: Bees won't drown in mine and when manipulating a hive you don't have to worry about feed in the feeder. Also you would have to fill it less than even a hivetop feeder.

Pale feeder: This one is so simple and cheap that it is hard to beat. One way mine would be better is it is easier to fill and manipulating it on the hive is easier. Also mine is no mess and you would have to lug heavy pales of feed to the hives. Mine also has the potential to feed for longer between refills if you should so need. 

Thanks again for the input. I just wanted to get a feeler out there to see if there would be a market for it because I am a new Beek and I don't want to spend a ton of time and moneyon something no one would want.


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## DirtyLittleSecret (Sep 10, 2014)

I think all of us would be interested in new options for feeding our honies. I might add that for many the amount of feed can be an issue (fermentation). Seems 1-2 gallons per hive mounted feeder is the limit and even then some gets tossed. Drowning and price are usually the determining factors as well as not disturbing the hive (for some). As long as its reasonably priced and can be marketed...


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## Pathfinder (Sep 7, 2014)

If it's airtight do you think fermentation wouldn't be such a problem?


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## NW_Mark (Jan 23, 2012)

An automatic top off unit. Feeding from a a 55gal drum back filled with nitrogen gas. I already use one close to this to keep the water level consistent in my Reef tank. Would need too many floats and tubing along with a controler to make this cost effective. But yes it could be done.


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## Pathfinder (Sep 7, 2014)

I'm waiting on my patent pending paperwork to go through so I can talk about it more but your thinking on the rigt track. My design is much simpler and more cost effective and the feeder on the hive is a better hive top feeder on the market by light years in and of itself.


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## DirtyLittleSecret (Sep 10, 2014)

Pathfinder said:


> If it's airtight do you think fermentation wouldn't be such a problem?


It would have to be completely vacuumed of air to not be. Fermentation can occur regardless of being airtight. There'd still be air.


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## Pathfinder (Sep 7, 2014)

Yeah I figured as much Dirty little secret. I just figured out a way not to have to worry about fermentation.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

The future of beekeeping as we see the trends in these threads!

https://chronicle-vitae-production.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/user_article/photo/234/full_12202013-moderntimes.gif

[url]http://holyhash.altaica.net/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2014/04/the_general_problem-974.png
[/URL]


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## Pathfinder (Sep 7, 2014)

Hahahah Barry! I should make a hive that looks like a Borg Cube.....


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## JTGaraas (Jun 7, 2014)

It is impossible to comment about something that is unseen, and unexplained. No one should buy "a pig in a poke"!

It will be the "ultimate" feeder if it has some facial "feedee" recognition software capability -- that will save a lot of branding time!


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## Pathfinder (Sep 7, 2014)

Touche JTGaraas. Would it be a worthy feeder if it significantly reduced the amount time you have to spend feeding your bee yards as well as had none of the side effects of drowning or robbing other feeders have?


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## Pathfinder (Sep 7, 2014)

I guess what I'm trying to find out is two thinga.

1. Are Beeks set in their ways or would do they willingly accept change. 

2. Try to figure out what other problems Beek have with feeders that are currently on the market so I can work to elite any of those problems from mine. Such as enducing robbing, or drowning beea, or having to fill up every feeder every day...etc. 


Just trying to make the job of managing hives easier.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

What is not easy about putting feed in a jar, can, baggie, or plastic tub and sitting it on top of a hive? No matter what system you employ, one still has to make the feed and get it to the bees.


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## Pathfinder (Sep 7, 2014)

Why doesn't everyone just use the baggie method then?


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Why doesn't everybody use just one method? Beekeeping is local. I wouldn't expect a commercial outfit to use baggies as they can be a bit of a pain to fill and they are not reusable. However, I use baggies on many occasion, usually when I want to feed back honey. I still like the upside down jar method. If I had a lot of hives, I'd go to tin or plastic for the container. Even though I have plans for the Miller style feeder here on the site and have made a couple, I never use them for several reasons.


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## Pathfinder (Sep 7, 2014)

My idea is geared for those who have more than one bee yard to save time feeding multiple hives.


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## JTGaraas (Jun 7, 2014)

I am a hobbiest, aged 66, that worked at a desk or podium for 43 years, and then realized I need some other interests. Feeding 2-6 hives is fun, and somewhat rewarding. The amount of time actually expended in beekeeping at my level would never justify some greater expenditure than a few buckets and a couple of top feeders. I joke, "I needed something to keep me out of the beer parlors!" Trying to make beekeeping effortless is not my objective. Your product is unlikely to generate a single sale among the group I come from.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Pathfinder said:


> My idea is geared for those who have more than one bee yard to save time feeding multiple hives.


Then the question remains, are you able to significantly reduce the amount of time it currently takes to feed yards and the cost not be more? On the other hand, it appears there are those who are willing to spend big bucks on a new idea, even without it being in the real world working for a couple of years!


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## Pathfinder (Sep 7, 2014)

With my design you could feed an entire bee yard in 10 minutes withoug touching a single hive.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Given that you only addressed the time factor, I'm pretty sure you're not able to match the cost factor. What about the prep work for all the tubes and the reliability factor? Hard to beat a container of feed right on the hive.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Pathfinder said:


> I guess what I'm trying to find out is two thinga.
> 
> 1. Are Beeks set in their ways or would do they willingly accept change.
> 
> ...


There are always new beekeepers coming up behind us old beekeepers and some of them will try anything just because the old way is old. So if what you have in mind works someone will buy it. Whether enough someones will buy it to keep you fed is another question. And some of us, or should I say "we"?, old beekeepers would know a good thing if we saw it too. So if it is something that commercial migratory beekeepers could see benefit in they would buy it too.

Is your design migratory hive compatible? Or better suited to stationery individual hives?


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## Pathfinder (Sep 7, 2014)

Haven't gotten the cost figured out yet. That will come when/if I start looking into manufacturers. I would say though I am expecting it to cost, in a 10 yard hive, 30-50 dollars per hive. That is a number I'm pulling out of my rear but a number I'm shooting for. Obviously the cheaper the better. I would think time saved in a sideliners or Comercial operation would easily offset the increased cost vs using let's say a hive top feeder. As for ease of set up. You put the feeder on. Turn a knob and your done. That simple. You never would have to touch the hive again if you didn't want too.


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## Pathfinder (Sep 7, 2014)

It is definitely migratory compatability. I actually planned on migratory bee keepers being able to get the most use out of it. The more hives you have to feed the more time it would save.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

If it sits on top of the hive one would have to touch it again. Feeding isn't the only thing one does when feeding is done.

$30.00 to $50.00 per hive? Seems expensive. Were I paying someone to feed my bees, say 2 guys at $10.00 per hour, one to open and close hives and the other to fill the feeders, it would probably cost me around $20.00 to feed 50 hives. Probably less. That's 40 cents per hive, isn't it? Not counting the cost of the feeder. Which was less than $5.00, if I remember correctly.

Much remains to be seen.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Pathfinder said:


> As for ease of set up. You put the feeder on. Turn a knob and your done. That simple. You never would have to touch the hive again if you didn't want too.


So something must keep the feeder itself from overflowing, I guess. Could it keep a constant amount of feed available to the bees all the time, within limits of the syrup supply tank in each yard? Or does it require return trips to refill the feeders?


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## Pathfinder (Sep 7, 2014)

You wouldn't have to touch the hive except when first putting it on or when you need to get into the hive for other reasons.
It does not overflow and the feed is only limited by the central tank...you only need to refill the central tank when needed.

It would work like this...
Go to your yard for your normal inspection. Put out central tank, quick connect to central tank, turn on feeder and away you go.... Come back...top off central tank...done...

As for cost.... https://www.kelleybees.com/Shop/7/NewBEE/4501/Kelley-s-Hive-Top-Feeder-with-Cover

How many hives in a bee yard do typical Sideliners and Commercial apiaries keep?

If you have a yard of 20 hives the cost would probably run maybe 40$ per hive as an estimate. Lets say you use it for 5 years feeding 20 hives and only need to spend 10 min a week feeding that hive..... instead of 10 minutes x 20 hives? I am just using 10 min as a number because it would take the same amount of time to feed 20 hives as it would to feed one hive the normal way.


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

I presume you don't have a patent or you would post a drawing or a photo
If you do then please post what it is. Must admit I don't find feeding that onerous...as I don't feed a lot...but hope you system logs how much feed is taken up by a hive over time as if not good hive information is lost.


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## Pathfinder (Sep 7, 2014)

I really appreciate all of the input. I would hate to put a ton of time and money into something that would flop.


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## Pathfinder (Sep 7, 2014)

Thats an awesome idea WBVC. And no im waiting on my patent pending response.


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

The kellys is a take off on the rapid feeder. The rapid feeder holds less and runs under $8.


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## Pathfinder (Sep 7, 2014)

Im just using that as an example WBVC to show that feeders run the gamut and that 30-50 a hive for an easier solution to multiple hive management isnt absurd.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Pathfinder said:


> I really appreciate all of the input. I would hate to put a ton of time and money into something that would flop.


You're not going to get an answer here without some significant idea of your device. Most experienced, successful beekeepers have found a feeding method that they like. They will not be swayed by anything you've posted. 
You're either going to pony up, put that ton of time and money into it and see.....or move on.


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## Pathfinder (Sep 7, 2014)

Wouldn't you think it's prudent to do market research into it first? Such as speaking to experienced beeks? I am a new Beek and don't have any real experience. I actually am beginning to exponentially expand my apiary because I want to make a sidelines business out of beekeeping because I love it so much and I couldn't find a feeder that I liked that didn't have its limitations, especially when having to feed a large quantity of hives in multiple yards . So I made one lol. Now I'm just trying to see if my creation can or should be marketed.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

What's going on here hardly qualifies as market research. In my opinion, the smartest thing you can do is to keep bees for a few years, get acquainted with other more experienced beekeepers and refine your idea as you learn.
Or...you can dump a load of time and money into an idea for an area where you have little practical knowledge....and hope for the best.
Whichever you choose.....good luck


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Barry said:


> A better can? You use conventional paint can style or something with a thread on lid? Or do you not even use a lid?


Conventional, epoxy lined, friction fit cover.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Pathfinder said:


> Mr. Palmer how many hives do you feed at a time? What if I said my method could easily feed an entire hive yard at once and save you time?


Well, I go through the yard, deterring who has to be fed and how much, and feed those that need it. If they don't need anything, they don't get anything.

If you're talking about connecting each hive to some sort of communal feeder device with hoses and floats, etc....well it's been done before and failed before.


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## JakeDatc (Apr 19, 2010)

Pathfinder said:


> Wouldn't you think it's prudent to do market research into it first? Such as speaking to experienced beeks? I am a new Beek and don't have any real experience. I actually am beginning to exponentially expand my apiary because I want to make a sidelines business out of beekeeping because I love it so much and I couldn't find a feeder that I liked that didn't have its limitations, especially when having to feed a large quantity of hives in multiple yards . So I made one lol. Now I'm just trying to see if my creation can or should be marketed.


what you are saying is " I am building a new car.. it'll save gas and cost less than a hybrid! but I can't tell you what it looks like, how it works or how much it will cost....." 

and with most concept ___ anythings seeing is believing. no one is going to give you a very good answer without seeing what it does. You can get a patent and show people or you can get vague answers from people just guessing.


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## Pathfinder (Sep 7, 2014)

I understand completely. Hopefully soon it will be under patent pending I can show you all my prototype.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Pathfinder said:


> You wouldn't have to touch the hive except when first putting it on or when you need to get into the hive for other reasons.
> It does not overflow and the feed is only limited by the central tank...you only need to refill the central tank when needed.
> 
> It would work like this...
> ...


During the time of year when some of my friends feed bees some of them have as many as one or two semi loads. 20 hives is hardly a commercial apiary when hives are fed or not. I usually run 40 hives through the Summer months, but during the winter I have 80 or more in each yard.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Pathfinder said:


> I really appreciate all of the input. I would hate to put a ton of time and money into something that would flop.


You keep saying that. But, by all you have said about this idea, it seems like you have put a lot of time and thought into this already.


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## Pathfinder (Sep 7, 2014)

Wow that is crazy! Do you think it would benifit you to be able to spend just a few minutes per yard to feed your bees instead of a few minutes per hive? Or do you feel you don't have to spend any real time feeding your hives as it is? I ask because I really don't know how a Comercial operaton works...


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## Pathfinder (Sep 7, 2014)

I have put some time into it and even made a minature prototype just to see if it would work. I just want to see if it would be useful to others. I created it with the idea of being able to keep feeding my brand new nuc's I'm getting as well as the Nuc yard I am going to make in line with what Mr. Palmer does for a sustainable apiary. I need a lot of drawn comb made and the best way to do that is to feed feed feed. Especially when we really only have a flow that last two months at the best.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Years ago there was a plastic feeding device that fit into a comb. Had a feeding chamber and a float with a valve. It was connected to a main line by a small hose. You could fit every hive in the yard with a feeder and feed the whole yard at once. Wasn't long before it disappeared from the periodicals.

Anyone remember it?


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## Pathfinder (Sep 7, 2014)

Did it not work well or did no one have use for it?


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

I assume it didn't work well. I think I remember there was a problem with the check valve...maybe sugar crystals.


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## Pathfinder (Sep 7, 2014)

Fantastic! Stuff like that helps a bunch. Those of you who are helping I really do appreciate it.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Everyone who has responded to you is helping, so you are welcome. You just have to realize that. Your statement makes it seem as though you think some have not been helpful. That's too bad.


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## Pathfinder (Sep 7, 2014)

I am thanking the people who have taken the time to respond. Your reading into it. Hard not to do through written text...I understand. ..I've done the same...


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Cool.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

Sorry to be a downer, but . . .

That you think beeks want to feed syrup in the winter tells me you don't know much about beekeeping, and thus don't have enough knowledge/experience on feeding bees to have outsmarted 150 years of previous beekeepers.

I can also tell that you don't know anything about the patenting process.

But,if you do come up with a design that is faster, easier, cheaper, etc., then yes I would buy it, but I will believe it when I see it and not before.


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## Beekkirk (Mar 7, 2014)

everyones an inventor now that the flow hive is out ayyy?


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## Pathfinder (Sep 7, 2014)

That's a rather asinine comment.


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## Orje (May 22, 2011)

Some hive take syrup much faster than others. Then I prepare the hives for winter I want to know how much syrup each hive gets. Is it possible with this method?


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## Pathfinder (Sep 7, 2014)

That is definitely something I will work on Orje. The hive feeders operate and can be filled stand alone from the centrap feeder so if you want them to only get a certain amount that can be done and is easy to do. Measuring amount taken is a great idea and something I will work on.


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## Beekkirk (Mar 7, 2014)

No offence intended just stating a fact. Hey, the more bee awareness the better.


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## Beekkirk (Mar 7, 2014)

I myself have a few ideas ive been fiddling with.


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## Pathfinder (Sep 7, 2014)

Sorry Beekkirk! I just did the same thing SQCRK did lol. My apologies. The internet is great for many things but conveying tone is not one of them lmao.


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