# The right number of hives to keep it fun



## LAlldredge (Aug 16, 2018)

Started with 4 this year and ended with 5. I’d love to hear from backyard beekeepers about the fun threshold and the right number of hives for them and why. My 5th colony was a swarm and its presently overwintering in 1/2 of a resource hive snuggled up to a big colony. Right now the best number seems to be 5 regular sized colonies and 2 nucs within a resource hive. Anything more would seem like work. I love the bug. I also like having a population threshold to share resources. Not even interested in honey if I’m being honest about it. Have you started with larger numbers then scaled back? Or the opposite?


----------



## fatshark (Jun 17, 2009)

For me, about a dozen. Enough to get a good honey crop, enough to do some meaningful stock improvement or queen rearing, not too many extra boxes to store etc. Manageable with a very full time job at weekends or summer evenings. 

How many have I got? 21 this winter plus some nucs


----------



## dudelt (Mar 18, 2013)

I will agree with Fatshark. 10 - 12 is a really good number. However, I got up to 22 this year and will be selling off a bunch in spring. Having 10 hives and suddenly you need to be a good neighbor and prevent swarming and suddenly you have 20 hives. That is not what happened to me but I have seen it happen. Once you get the hang of keeping them alive through winter, and your varroa management is working, the hard part is keeping the numbers down. Now that I have been able to keep everyone alive over the winter for several years and have gotten the hang of queen rearing, I may be reducing the numbers down to 7 or 8. Having to feed, inspect and treat 20 hives is just a bit much with a full time job and all the other responsibilities I have.


----------



## Barhopper (Mar 5, 2015)

Not 40!


----------



## LAlldredge (Aug 16, 2018)

dudelt said:


> I will agree with Fatshark. 10 - 12 is a really good number. However, I got up to 22 this year and will be selling off a bunch in spring. Having 10 hives and suddenly you need to be a good neighbor and prevent swarming and suddenly you have 20 hives. That is not what happened to me but I have seen it happen. Once you get the hang of keeping them alive through winter, and your varroa management is working, the hard part is keeping the numbers down. Now that I have been able to keep everyone alive over the winter for several years and have gotten the hang of queen rearing, I may be reducing the numbers down to 7 or 8. Having to feed, inspect and treat 20 hives is just a bit much with a full time job and all the other responsibilities I have.


Just the feedback I was reaching for. You can sense that there’s a line somewhere with a number on it. I’m going to endeavor to be really good at it and keep my numbers small. Glad I’m surrounded by a national forest. Swarms could be supported here.


----------



## Apis Natural (Aug 31, 2017)

here in Southern Oregon we have mega tons of feral bees. Bees everywhere...


----------



## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

I have 9 hives right now and ten extra hives built. I am so glad that those ten extra hives don't have bees in them. I live in fear of having a smarmy season and not having equipment to catch or stop the swarms that my hives may decide on one of these days. If the emptys were full I would feel pressure to build more cause I don't like losing bees. I try to keep my hives from wanting to swarm cause I am not unhappy with what ten or so hives does for me and don't want to build a bunch of equipment just to sell it. 

I am retired and do not want another job but do like a hobby. I don't treat and I am not a good sells man and don't want to put in the effort to become one.

So my ten hives lets me give a couple of gal to my kids and make about $500 a year for my small effort and is something that keeps me interested but has not turned into a job which I don't want. So I don't get so much honey that it starts piling up cause I am too lazy to sell it but do get enough to take care of the kids and make a little with just word of mouth and no pushing.

Ten fits my competence level as a bee keeper and is still fun and not work. I can still convince myself that it is a productive thing to do with out having to work for production.
Cheers
gww

Ps When I had three hives, I lived in fear that all would die and I would have to start over. It is not that ten can not all die but I feel more comfortable that with ten, I might have three live no matter what and so maybe three is the right number but ten kinda guarantees the three hopefully. I have not had many die cause I started with three and have 9 but I feel a little more comfortable.


----------



## bushpilot (May 14, 2017)

I have 8 full colonies, and 3 nucs going into winter. Once I figured to mix syrup in (several) 5 gallon buckets with a paint mixer, life got a lot easier. 

The biggest chore was OAV treating (repeatedly) going into winter. (60-80 treatments total, 2 hives were done 12 times) I think I will address that with an EasyVap next year. 

From there, I think I could reasonably keep 15-20 total, and still enjoy it. But I am retired, if I were still employed, that would probably be more than I would like.


----------



## little_john (Aug 4, 2014)

So much depends on a person's reasons for keeping bees ...

If you're 'just keeping bees' - then I'd say that 10 or so is a pretty good number - for exactly the reasons already stated: enough colonies to weather most calamities without needing to re-start from scratch, and yet a manageable number for treating/ winter feeding etc. without becoming too much of a burden.

But I find there's a problem with such a number if you plan on doing anything more than 'just keep bees'. If you want to raise queens, for example, the more colonies the better able to make an initial breeding selection. Then there's the issue of following the daughters (plural) and grand-daughters ('plural-plural') to see if your chosen traits have persisted.

One of my interests is comparing different types of hive, and again ten colonies really wouldn't be enough to do this (especially when queen-rearing as well) - and so the colony numbers just keep creeping upwards !

This is such a good thread topic, for 'hive-creep' has become an ongoing problem for me too. At the end of each season as feeding for winter begins (my only significant expense) I make plans to decimate the hive numbers down to maybe just 20-30 - but just as soon as the new season starts the familiar "oh - just one or two more extra nucs" begins, and so 'hive-creep' rears it's seductive head yet once again.

But - I've yet to find 'self-discipline' listed in any of the beekeeping supplies catalogues. 
LJ


----------



## Cloverdale (Mar 26, 2012)

I like that idiom “hive creep”; I truly don’t know how to address it though.


----------



## LAlldredge (Aug 16, 2018)

Cloverdale said:


> I like that idiom “hive creep”; I truly don’t know how to address it though.


Agreed- love the term “hive creep”. I have heard of splitting then recombining in the fall to keep the numbers down. Little john is right about the limitations for the more advanced skills but I’m going to live with that and buy great queens if needed from a skilled beekeeper. Boy the queen rearing is like a sirens song. So is splitting. I want to keep my enthusiasm for this hobby.


----------



## logicallycompromised (Apr 15, 2018)

becoming engaged in the scientific method will help maintain and improves ones enthusiasm. there are endless questions to ask and pursue if your mind is up to it. i enjoy chasing efficiency and establishing where boundaries exists. be forewarned the deeper you become involved the more difficult it becomes to find people with similar or greater passion and the risk of burning out becomes real. it is no fun pouring, so much work into something which you do not want to share with people who may not appreciate the journey. the good news is if you hit the hobby hard you will have tools which you banked along the way which will allow you to conquer the next hobby more efficiently as well.

for anyone who can relate with what i have said please pm me as i could use a friend.


----------



## LAlldredge (Aug 16, 2018)

No one appreciates a problem more then I do. It’s served me well in my career and interests. I have many other hobbies. The most noteworthy one is my equestrian riding and husbandry. It’s a study and intuitive art just like this one. There’s only so much you can learn from a book. There’s another level of communication going on that cannot be understood by the human mind. I drove home the exact moment my swarm was going by. That was not a coincidence. I also found them because I knew I would. That had more to do with relaxing then it had to do with thinking.

As far as burnout, I’m seeing my mentor overwhelmed with too many hives and sound as if she’s regretting the number and obligation. That’s why I started this thread. There’s the right balance here I just know it. We each need to feel for it and commit to living it.


----------



## dudelt (Mar 18, 2013)

gww said:


> When I had three hives, I lived in fear that all would die and I would have to start over. It is not that ten can not all die but I feel more comfortable that with ten, I might have three live no matter what and so maybe three is the right number but ten kinda guarantees the three hopefully. I have not had many die cause I started with three and have 9 but I feel a little more comfortable.


That is exactly why I decided to have ten hives! I finally figured out how to keep them alive and suddenly every swarm in the neighborhood started coming to my yard. I caught 5 swarms this year and 4 last year. Only one of them came from my hives. Add in a few splits to prevent swarming and some mating nucs from queen rearing and that is how I ended up with 22 hives earlier this year. I thought that selling 10 nucs this year would have kept the numbers down but I guess I need to try harder next year.


----------



## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Yes there is a big difference in the comfort factor with 3 compared to 6; then with 10 -12 you can get to be more like Greg. Tough love!

I put 13 to bed one fall with very inefficient methods and found I was resenting the work. Some standardised methods could have cut that down considerably but still, I knew that was more colonies than I needed, or really wanted.

European Foulbrood appeared next spring but I did not diagnose it as soon as I should have (too many hives maybe). I put 6 to bed that fall.

This past spring I had 4 of them dead out, one queenless and one strong. That was definitely not happy beekeeping numbers! This fall I put 5 away for the winter. No more sign of the foulbrood. 

6 colonies and 2 or 3 nucs for insurance or sell in the spring is the plan going forward. Plans are wonderful when the play out as planned!


----------



## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

dudelt


> and that is how I ended up with 22 hives earlier this year.


My first year with three new hives and I had about 6 or 8 extra hives built and sitting there. It got warm in feb so that the bees could take advantage of the tree pollen and then cooled down. Before it got to 70 degrees again, two of my hives started swarming and then I caught two swarms in traps and I was out of equipment, gave one swarm away and was sitting on eight hives and having to spend all winter building ten more hives.

I have been good with the swarm control the last few years but have learned what can happen. I don't mind selling splits to others to put in their equipment but build too slow to be just making stuff to sell. On the other hand, I never want to have to buy a bee and so am trying for that happy medium. I also hate trying to sell stuff though your honor stand is going to be my go to if I ever do get in a bind.

I see where you are coming from and also how on the good years it can get away from a person. I always am worried about the bad year that I know will come some day and I don't want to buy bees but also don't want to go into the bee business.

So far so good and so far, enjoyable. I did think that fatsharks link says it pretty good. My whole goal is to not have a hobby that keeps costing me money and I don't want to work hard enough to make a lot of money. I just want to muddle along and piddle in a fashion that I can justify in my own mind with out being critical of others who have different goals.
Cheers
gww

Ps Frank, I have seen your other hobbies and can agree that you could resent the work with too many. If you found some way to keep your equipment, building back up will not be quite the burden. If you had to destroy, ouch.


----------



## Nelsonhoneyfarms (May 19, 2019)

I typically have 6 to 8 honey hives and don’t get overwhelmed. Come springtime (split time) that number usually doubles, but I can usually get rid of those in a couple months via Craigslist! 

Ryan


----------



## Steve in PA (Jan 26, 2015)

It seems the consensus would be 10-ish and I concur. I learned grafting and went crazy this past spring. I'm selling many of whatever overwinters and trying to get back to 10 in spring. I may go crazy grafting again for sales, but it seemed that when I went over 10 it went from a fun hobby to an extra job. 

Even though I enjoy it a lot, I don't need another job right now.


----------



## Cloverdale (Mar 26, 2012)

I agree also; too much of a chore and I’m only at 20. I want to enjoy this.


----------



## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

LAlldredge said:


> Started with 4 this year and ended with 5. ......


Started with 4 this year and ended with.......... 17 as of this writing.

I would not feel secure enough to only be sending 5 units into the winter.
Just my style.


----------



## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

crofter said:


> Yes there is a big difference in the comfort factor with 3 compared to 6; then with 10 -12 you can get to be more like Greg. Tough love!!


10-20 range is a good target range for the season end (for busy, working people).
Below it becomes too risky.
Above it becomes too laborious.

10-20 range enables you to take calculated risks, try new things, butcher few bees while trying new things ..... and still sleep mostly well at night.
It also enables to run the Mel D's, chemical-free management model (which I largely do).
And still make enough bee products overall, while running smallish units.


----------



## psm1212 (Feb 9, 2016)

12 would be my minimum. Have 20 now. Sold 16 this year. I picked up a new customer this year that runs through about 150 pounds of honey a month (retail store.) So I have to go up to about 40 to keep them supplied. Will try it for a year and see. I have a full time job. I like getting up early and working hard all day on Saturday and Sunday in the bee yards. But I might cross the fun/no fun threshold at 40. We will see.


----------



## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

psm1212 said:


> I have a full time job. * I like getting up early and working hard all day on Saturday and Sunday in the bee yards.* .


If I do this, my wife will be wondering why she needs me anymore...
Already pushing it.
So....


----------



## Kuro (Jun 18, 2015)

Since I bought two packages in spring 2015, I have kept just two hives and sometimes one nuc as a spare. Inspection and mite treatment are no big deal with just a few hives. They produce sufficient honey for friends and families, but not so much that I would want to buy an expensive extractor (I use a hand-cranked two frame extractor). There are plenty of flowers nearby without much competition, so I do not have to feed my bees, except when I harvested lots of honey in fall. 

As others pointed out, keeping just a few has its risks. Once I lost a hive in winter and had to buy a package. Three times I failed to raise a good queen and had to buy one from elsewhere. Ideally, I would want to over-winter two <1 yr queens in two full-sized hives and one >1 yr old queen in a nuc, but that usually does not happen.


----------



## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

What has not been mentioned is the amount of locations. For a while my hive count did not change but I had some in people’s fields or in their orchards. 15 hives in 3 places takes more time than 15 in two. I also had some ‘creep’ and was up over 20, spread out in 3 or 4 locations and it was all I did to manage them in summer and then with honey. Last year I dropped to 10 and had kept a couple at a friends place a few miles away and it made it fun again.


----------



## Grins (May 24, 2016)

Hive creep, hahaha...
I like 5 production and one side by side for support but I'm up to 8, number 8 is an experiment to try overwintering a monster queen in a single brood box.


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

When I was doing it just for fun I ran between 1 and 7. Some years it might have strayed a bit over 7 with nucs, but I tried not to have more than 7 actual full size hives. If you do the math on sustainability, five is a point where you have a good chance of having bees surviving every winter. Five with a few nucs (two or three) is a good goal. This gives you some spare parts to work with.


----------



## LAlldredge (Aug 16, 2018)

Thanks Michael. That’s just the validation I was hoping for. It’s not the end of the world if I have to buy bees but I’d rather not. Also not getting too committed to a particular queen. The colony ultimately decides what’s best and that’s good enough for me. These bees are super clean of mites and well fed. May add a pollen super below for next years winter config. So it would be super, hive body, super.


----------



## JConnolly (Feb 21, 2015)

My grandfather was a commercial beekeeper and I learned under his tutorship what it took to do this as a profession, so I became and engineer and this is strictly a hobby, I intentionally work at it to keep it small scale. I try to stay between six and ten, right now at eight. Five doesn't quite cut it to be sustainable, six seems to be the sustainability point. But crossing the sustainability threshold is also a point where you'll automatically start growing. And growing. Ten is past my self imposed limit. My solution to that is to sell nucs.


----------



## cfalls (Nov 26, 2017)

I would say 1 colony is not enough because you need another to compare against. But if you want 2 colonies, you really need 3 in case one fails. But then you can't maintain an exact number, so a lot of the time you'll have 4.

More than that, for me, is too many.

I have 6 colonies now, overwintering in double deeps. They produced way more honey than I know what to do with. And I think with half as many colonies going into winter I'd still have an excellent chance of having bees in spring. If they all overwinter (again) and need to be split to prevent swarming (again) I'll have to turn to craigslist to get rid of them.

In theory, an advantage of having more colonies would be that it starts to make sense to raise your own queens and go fully sustainable. What fun! And thrifty too. But when my bees have raised their own queens, the hives have ended up a lot hotter than when I've just bought queens. So screw that. I don't like the local genetics anyway.

(By local, I just mean the mile or so radius where my virgins mate. I've purchased "local" queens that were great.)


----------



## hecjt (Mar 28, 2016)

I'm a fairly passive beekeeper. I just want to get some honey to use each year and enjoy beekeeping without it being a job. So for me the number is 4-6 hives. This is a manageable number of hives, keeps you with enough honey even if you have trouble in one or two of them, allows for splits, but isn't so much that it becomes a job.


----------



## unstunghero (May 16, 2016)

I have 5 hives in 3 different set-ups plus 2-3 nucs going, I don't think I work as hard as I did when I first started with 1 or 2. If I wind up with swarms or too many nucs, I just give (or sell) them to people starting out or have the need. Bees are easy to get rid of.


----------



## srockey (Feb 8, 2019)

This is a very informative thread. I started in February 2019 with 1 hive and now have 5. My goal has always been 10. I hope to get there next year.

Steve


----------



## Jarred1982 (Jul 14, 2016)

It may depend on where you are in life. I started with 4 and ended up with 18. Back down to 9 going into winter. I will probably scale back due to my kids being so busy. Was wanting to do some queen rearing via grafting but don’t know if I want to now. I love playing with the bees probably more than having honey. But when I harvest honey I get a renewed zest for life!


----------



## houseofcakes (Aug 4, 2018)

Like everything, I think it depends on time, money and location. For urban keepers 10 is insane to me. Just storing equipment would be a challenge. Idk how you all do it but it is a LOT of work for me to manage my hives. I'm still new at this but I also like to know what is going on and maybe that will fade but even in just 2 years I feel like I've done so many things with splits, combines, nucs, swarms etc. Maybe it will get easier but IDK these guys are not chickens (which seem like the work doesn't change much). Plus if you work FT and have a family (and are a mother...just saying) it's hard to juggle bc busy times for bees are usually busy times for humans in my world (spring/early summer and fall). Ideally, 4 sounds like a good # to go into winter as a hobbyist (e.g. this is not a PT or FT gig) bc if you had 50% die you'd still be left with your base 2. But also if you have more space, time and money go with what feels right for you. It is not a cheap thing. Initial investments for equipment have cost me prob $700 at least. I guess if you have 10 you're buying bulk but you don't know that til you've bought smaller lots tbh. Time wise I was maxed out w work and bees going swarmy at the same time and school ending for my kid so for me. And I have about 400 sq ft of usuable roof space. So I don't think there is a hard rule really. I think you have to take those 3 things and work your own equation. But maybe there is a time efficiency at 10 (or each hive isn't as precious bc you're not trying to save them all)... Just my noob opinion.


----------



## MimiE (Apr 23, 2018)

I live in California - SF suburb so backyard space is limited. I like to keep 3-6 hives in my backyard; anything over 8 has to go. Usually I overwinter 4 (this year it’s 3 hives and 2 nucs). I don’t need to feed except maybe after splitting if I didn’t put in enough honey frames. I don’t use chemicals to treat my bees so I split often to control mites; my last brood break split was on Oct. 1st - and both those hives is doing fine (yes the Queen mated in late Oct.) Bees fly here all 12 months. Mid-Nov and forecast is 70’s and 80’s (77 today and it’s Nov 6th). Last year only 2 of 4 hive survived, from those two I ended up with over 16 hives from splits - definitely guilty of hive-creep. Gave away most of my bee splits.


----------



## Tgood1969 (Feb 26, 2018)

Ive passed the easy to keep up point with 35 current hives. With this many, I find there are times I must work hives whether I truly want to or not or else I can quickly get behind. Ill likely sell down in spring to get back to 20 or so next summer.. for me that is about ideal in terms of effort vs reward. I could have sold down this season but decided to just carry them on through winter in order to pick my breeding stock from a larger pool come next spring


----------



## Amibusiness (Oct 3, 2016)

It depends!! 🙂
Many good posts. I find mentoring, teaching, and helping the local club to be difficult as the busy times are when everyone needs you. Why You keep bees makes all the difference. My preference is to sell surplus bees rather than honey. I use management rather than chems to deal with mites. I split and raise queens for overwintering from swarm season until 4 - 5 brood cycles before frost. We have a spring flow with swarm season and a fall flow starting with golden rod with 4-6 weeks of no nectar flow in between. I aim to harvest honey beginning of July and use all the extra equipment in a last round of splits for queen rearing. Honey pulled late means I have drawn comb to put on small colonies/splits. I have been selling "spring nucs" which are splits I make early with a bought (tf) queen (as I don't start rearing queens until too late to sell nucs) made 4-7 weeks before sale (so all brood and sometimes most bees are from new queen). I am in upstate NY. I do need to feed or add honey to the smallest late splits shortly after the fall flow starts to get them ready for winter. I have carniolan crosses.
I have found that I can sell as many spring nucs as colonies I overwinter, I can tripple that number of colonies. In a good honey year I can harvest about 30# per overwintered colony. This does not seem ambitious to me and I have not had a bad year. I have also never had Afb or efb. (I do get inspected every year so I can sell bees.)
So if 7-21 is your range you need equipment for 21 winter set ups. You could sell 7 nucs, harvest 210# honey, and go into winter with 21. Assuming you have reasonably good survival you will need to sell more next year to avoid hive creep. And you can afford to take more risk. This sounds like fun to me. 
We run more colonies but with this amount during peak times (early spring assessments and splits, swarm season, honey harvest, fall assessments and feeding) I would need to spend about half a day/ week in the bees. For other times (winter, summer dearth) I can spend as much or little time as I have, prepping equipment, moving honey....).
I find when I have high losses or more time in the spring I do the work more slowly and enjoy it more. When I have no losses or time I work quickly, make more assumptions based on what I'm seeing, and enjoy the increddible productivity of these creatures.
I hope this helps someone!
Happy beekeeping everyone!


----------



## bushpilot (May 14, 2017)

As far as time spent - I spent far more time keeping my 2 hives the first year than I did this year with 10ish. 

Until the mite treatments this fall, that is ...


----------



## dgaroutte (Apr 27, 2014)

bushpilot said:


> I have 8 full colonies, and 3 nucs going into winter. Once I figured to mix syrup in (several) 5 gallon buckets with a paint mixer, life got a lot easier.
> 
> The biggest chore was OAV treating (repeatedly) going into winter. (60-80 treatments total, 2 hives were done 12 times) I think I will address that with an EasyVap next year.
> 
> From there, I think I could reasonably keep 15-20 total, and still enjoy it. But I am retired, if I were still employed, that would probably be more than I would like.


I am on my 9th OAV and still have 200 mites in 2 hives out of 9. I broke down and bought a provac and it really saves time. As to number of hives, I could handle a few more-maybe 15 hives and 2-3 nucs just in case.


----------



## viclozan (Apr 24, 2018)

I've only been keeping bees for five years and somewhere around my second year I was sure I wanted 50-100 hives. Three years later and twenty some hives spread in three yards opened my eyes to the real work it takes and have since decided to stay between 10-15 in two yards. I had a much larger than expected crop of honey with only eight production hives the past two years, so I see no need to increase numbers in my current situation. Between kids sporting events and 50 hour (regular job) work weeks, I will postpone the 50-100 hive dream till after I win the lottery (Too bad I don't play the lottery).


----------



## acraiger (Dec 29, 2014)

I've been keeping bees for about 4 years now, but still feel like a beginner. I've only had 3, mainly because I never bought more hive boxes. I'm 50 now, and having more would kill my back. I've been bad at mite management, and prepping for the winters in Colorado, as I am lucky if one hive survives, hopefully the one that survives is healthy enough to split. I actually have 4 hives this year, one being a slovenian hive in a shed, which I eventually plan to transfer all hives to slovenian style, then I think I can start to grow to 10 hives, as I won't be killing my back. 3 hives has actually been working out for me for the last 4 years, as I cannot remember ever having to buy honey since. It's just me and my wife eating the honey, and a few jars we give to relatives. I do mainly keep bees for the honey, and the polination is an added bonus for our fruit trees.

I also have a brother in law that keeps 8 hives on my property, so if I ever lose all my hives, I just catch one of his swarming, or he splits a hive and gives me one to keep me going. I've lost all hives once and bought new hives, but the swarm hives always seem to do much better than the one's you buy.

When I do have 3 hives full, and need to split, or catch a swarm, I just sell one as a nuc.


----------



## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

little_john said:


> So much depends on a person's reasons for keeping bees ...
> 
> If you're 'just keeping bees' - then I'd say that 10 or so is a pretty good number - for exactly the reasons already stated: enough colonies to weather most calamities without needing to re-start from scratch, and yet a manageable number for treating/ winter feeding etc. without becoming too much of a burden.
> 
> ...


Good post LJ, close to My Option as well. How many is a somewhat personal thing, some folks can "be happy" with 4-6, that number scratches most of the places they need. At some level say 12-20 one learns to be more efficient by necessity, and tools can be afforded like an extractor or a numismatic nailer. with 2 hives one can be very inefficient and who cares. With 50 more thinking before the doing really matters. like do i want to try Quilt boxes, making 50 becomes a project. I am somewhat an analytical, so for me the math and optimizing IS a part of it. I had heavy loss last year like 50% , but was able to splt back and make some gains, so I am going into winter with 25, Hope to make 10 hives this winter and target 30 ish next winter. However I am a parent and work full time, so Am currently a "weekend" bee haver. Also have 3 properties One being a 200 + Acre Farm to manage, so I need to optimize the time parts or I cannot have more hives. Also mentoring 3 people at this time so I am right at the point of not able to grow hive count much, unless I want to sleep less. In the summer I am tied up with the farm and hunting property, in the winter I am in the wood working shop. Somewhat subscribe to GregVs Set it and forget it approach, I do not have the time to coddle weak bees. Today every bottom and top and hive body is in use, some that really should be retired, so In Need of a good winter build, and can tolerate 10 dead outs and be at 15 in the spring. I would have 10 in production and take the 5 to do increase.
GG
GG


----------



## twinoaks (Sep 1, 2018)

Thanks for posting this message as it gives me something to think about. I am at 29 total right now-22 full sized hives at 3 outyards (all near home) in addition to 3 full sized hives and 3 nucs at home. It is a lot to keep up with work and family. I will be making some splits to sell in the Spring and trying queen rearing--so should have plenty of stock to work with. I am just thinking that 20 full sized hives would work just as well and then I could dedicate one outyard to nucs and/or queen rearing.


----------



## Slotown (Jun 25, 2017)

For me this is a two-part answer. a) How many hives can I manage without swamping other areas of my live , and b) how much honey can I either sell or give away. 

This is my third and most successful year with about 200 pounds of honey. We had a spring and a fall harvest. Spring harvest sold all 103 pounds very quickly. Just had the fall harvest and sales are much slower. I will eventually dispose of the harvest, but it will take longer. I have four production hives. Three did not produce in the spring harvest. 

For me, I need to balance the # of hives with what I think I can easily manage, but more importantly with a solid customer base that will purchase what I can provide. I suspect if all four hives have a good spring harvest, I may have issues.

My guess is four will be my sweet spot.


----------



## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Cloverdale said:


> I agree also; too much of a chore and I’m only at 20. I want to enjoy this.


I'm with you Deb, 20 is all I want and can comfortably manage. Hope to sell an equal number of nucs each year.


----------



## jnqpblk (Apr 7, 2015)

LAlldredge said:


> Started with 4 this year and ended with 5. I’d love to hear from backyard beekeepers about the fun threshold and the right number of hives for them and why. My 5th colony was a swarm and its presently overwintering in 1/2 of a resource hive snuggled up to a big colony. Right now the best number seems to be 5 regular sized colonies and 2 nucs within a resource hive. Anything more would seem like work. I love the bug. I also like having a population threshold to share resources. Not even interested in honey if I’m being honest about it. Have you started with larger numbers then scaled back? Or the opposite?


Me, once I began consciously to treat for mites late summer/early fall, and had high numbers/percentages of hives wintering over, then my basic +-20 count became a drudgery. Where before, that is about what I needed going into winter to have enough come spring to continue on without buying bees or nucs. Yes, truly sad.

My bent in beekeeping , just a beekeeping addicted putz-er. Not in it for the money, or health. It's just all about the fascination of them bees, and my part was to simply assist them wintering.

Now, I can/do successfully winter healthy hives, (due in large part simply to annual mite treat) and am not just splitting the "few" (1-4) that made it out of +-20 back into high hive numbers (+-20) and all fairly weak come winter (see any problem? I did too!). Now, I get strong field forces built before the flow, which also provides me with this bothersome stuff called honey. Which I sell by the 5 gallon bucket to prevent the nickle and dime-ing of quarts all year, or at a Saturday market, (Reminder, I'm in it for the putzing!) But now, there is also the need to split to prevent/control swarms. And even doing a fake swarm split of queenie away with a couple frames, it still doubles hive numbers.

So me, have literally been very neglectful of hive management recently because I was over my "max!" 20 hive count earlier this year, and literally was nearly praying for a mega hive number crash that would put me back in that realm of manageable numbers next spring. ie. I have bodies for +-23 complete double deep hives and supers. A wintered hive is easy (nearly required) to split in two come the flow. 10 hives doubled = 20 total during the flow. 15 doubled = +-8 more hives than my bodies. 
20 healthy hives through the flow gives me way more surplus than I want to bother extracting with my 4 banger hand crank extractor.

Right now, am down to only 10 hives. That's about the right number to winter, but dang, that sticks me back at near 20 late next spring and I just detest having to manage that number of hives and their bounty. Dang bees!

For me, I can double hive numbers easily doing splits in spring. And part of the joy of beekeeping is going and capturing swarms, of which I get called to do every year. And the number of "fruitful" places to put baithives near other's pollinator hives or feral hive locations seems to be a benefit each year to increase hive numbers.

Dang, dang, dang. Determining that optimal hive number for me is very difficult, because it keeps changing through the year. Hmmm. Maybe I need to simply make my minimum 5??? Sooo, do I go ahead and sell off 10 of my bee-less hives?
Dang! Decisions, decisions!


----------



## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

jnqpblk said:


> Me, once I began consciously to treat for mites late summer/early fall, and had high numbers/percentages of hives wintering over, then my basic +-20 count became a drudgery. Where before, that is about what I needed going into winter to have enough come spring to continue on without buying bees or nucs. Yes, truly sad.
> 
> My bent in beekeeping , just a beekeeping addicted putz-er. Not in it for the money, or health. It's just all about the fascination of them bees, and my part was to simply assist them wintering.
> 
> ...


So find a bee club and offer to sell NUCs Split off your overwintered Queen and 3 frames of bees into a 5 frame NUC, give it a couple weeks and sell it. Gets you the swarm control and a re queen and cuts some of the increase and helps others to not need to buy packages. Be easier than the gallons of honey and have a control valve on hive count. You will find comb going out the door so keep feathering in foundation at the same pace you sell it off. 8 or 10 NUCs could net you 150 each. Then you continue what you like and move a few out the door as "baby hives for sale" You may find the "build" as fun as the "harvest" or more so. I would rather hatch a queen and see it turn out well than extract a super. Also may be able to sell full hives to pollinator type folks.
Build and paint a 2 deep, fill it with bees and sell the whole thing, not sure on the price to set here but may also work out to be something to enjoy. I would find a buyer first, ask them what wooden ware they want, or have them provide it to you, fill with a colony and set a price. Increase can be sold if you go about it in the way a buyer would want, selling increase can remove the too many hive issue as well  you found something you can do well,, you just need to sell/market it well
GG


----------



## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

First, I'm not a particularly successful beekeeper. Last year was a disaster. One survived winter very weak, and the swarms I caught both quickly developed wrinkled wings and heavy mite loads. Mite strips didn't help and they both died in the fall. The weak hive struggled along but finally absconded when the beetles got bad. So zero.
Caught a nice swarm this Spring and split it into 5, all of which are still alive and apparently healthy. Hoping to get several through to Spring. If so, hope to do maximum splitting and get up above 10 hives. 
I have two good locations and can easily handle 10-20 hives. I feel that will give me the margin of safety I need to be sustainable. More than that will have to wait a few years until I retire.


----------



## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

little_john said:


> So much depends on a person's reasons for keeping bees ...


I think a lot has to do with attitude. As someone who was born having fun, fun is easy for me. But for others?

This summer we had a young man come work here. He had been working for a commercial migratory. Said he got tired of being yelled at, called an idiot. Tired of boss throwing things and running stressed and working day and night. He left last week for another job...I got him a winter job with a migratory operation. Before he left he said this was the best summer of his life. Said he never knew beekeeping could be fun. We aim to please.


----------



## MimiE (Apr 23, 2018)

Don’t be too hard on yourself AR1. 1) If you originally started with all swarm catches, swarm are likely older queens with lower survival rates, unless the hive manages to requeen. (Or you can force it to requeen). 2) Learn from your mistakes. Monitor mites often and treat them (with or without using chemicals) before the colony collapse. 3) Glad you’re trying again. Get a mentor to guide you through it. You’re not alone. 
It’s the availability of diverse resources for my bees, not me per se, that allows my hives to explode.


----------



## Cloverdale (Mar 26, 2012)

Michael Palmer said:


> I think a lot has to do with attitude. As someone who was born having fun, fun is easy for me. But for others?
> 
> This summer we had a young man come work here. He had been working for a commercial migratory. Said he got tired of being yelled at, called an idiot. Tired of boss throwing things and running stressed and working day and night. He left last week for another job...I got him a winter job with a migratory operation. Before he left he said this was the best summer of his life. Said he never knew beekeeping could be fun. We aim to please.


Having visited your place last year (with Pat) I agree! Nice KNOWLEDGEABLE people and polite honey bees, it was the best experience ever. I wish I had found the maple ice cream though! My cheerful heart is slowly coming back, that would have given me the much needed kick start. Deb


----------



## Cloverdale (Mar 26, 2012)

JWPalmer said:


> I'm with you Deb, 20 is all I want and can comfortably manage. Hope to sell an equal number of nucs each year.


Yes. I started bees for “me”, at a much needed time in my life. I love the bees and don’t want to grumble about caring for them.


----------



## Litsinger (Jun 14, 2018)

Great thread, LAlldredge. I appreciate you tossing the question out there as I really enjoyed reading the responses. I suppose for now I am not yet content until all the woodenware is full, which works out to something slightly north of 20 for me. But as they say about the best laid plans...

Thanks again for posting.

Russ


----------



## little_john (Aug 4, 2014)

Litsinger said:


> Great thread, LAlldredge. I appreciate you tossing the question out there as I really enjoyed reading the responses.


I agree - a really good thread - one of the best threads in ages, as work-load is not a subject often discussed. I particularly liked MP's post - for "having fun" is not something normally associated with professional beekeeping (but why not ?). Indeed, I doubt very much you'll find 'fun' listed within the indexes of any beekeeping books ...
LJ


----------



## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

michael


> I think a lot has to do with attitude. As someone who was born having fun, fun is easy for me. But for others?
> 
> This summer we had a young man come work here. He had been working for a commercial migratory. Said he got tired of being yelled at, called an idiot. Tired of boss throwing things and running stressed and working day and night. He left last week for another job...I got him a winter job with a migratory operation. Before he left he said this was the best summer of his life. Said he never knew beekeeping could be fun. We aim to please.


I will use a line from the Dirty Harry movie.
"A man has to know his limitations"
I know myself very well and know my weaknesses. I am lazy, introverted,hate selling and interested in fun. I could not do what you do but find around ten hives to really fit well what I do.
I agree with LJ that this has been a great thread. I enjoy the process of thinking about what makes me happy about what fits my situation of bee keeping. I also enjoy thinking about your situations. I have really enjoyed this thread and all the posters to this thread.
Cheers
gww


----------



## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Like I said in my "blog" if I recall - I realized what I have been doing is a "reality game" - that is really the fun factor.
We, in the family, enjoy playing strategy games (a good example - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carcassonne_(board_game))

I do the same, only on an area of several square miles and with the time scope going in years.
Lots of variables; many of these are outside of my control (weather, landscape, people, beekeepers with their own bees and methods, regulations, etc, etc).
My goal is to survive the environment and get the high quality returns with the least possible effort.
I have hard time explaining to my kids the concept of my game.

Outsmart, outplay, survive - "The Survivor. CBS".


----------



## LAlldredge (Aug 16, 2018)

There is such a thing as "being in the zone" as a beekeeper. Like a professional athlete who has the ability to focus intensely, move with great intent and stay relaxed there is a zone for us as well. There can be great activity but beneath it all is a calm. I used to rock climb in my early 20's and had conversations with some of the best in the world. You can imagine hanging on a sheer rock face with only the smallest nubs of rock holding you on. And yet inside that great strength is tranquility and peace and focus. So it's not a surprise that Michael Palmer has the ability to manage the number he manages and still be relaxed and having fun. It is an artist at work.


----------



## BigBlackBirds (Aug 26, 2011)

If I was just to use a rough number its around 100. I grew up in beekeeping so less than that feels like I just have some bees sitting around. But every summer the colony counts starts to get out of hand and it becomes too time consuming. In fact between April and September I'm always "right sizing".


----------



## mbear (May 18, 2017)

7 hives. I always seem to lose 2 or 3 hives in the winter. But with seven I always have enough to recover and get my honey crop. I want the bees to pay for themselves and end up with at least five gallons of honey for my family. I just got back from a hive check and found one dead out leaving me six. Even if I lose four more I can be back to seven in the fall.


----------



## couesbro (Feb 4, 2017)

42 is the correct answer according to the computer Deep Thought in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.


----------



## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

GregV said:


> Like I said in my "blog" if I recall - I realized what I have been doing is a "reality game" - that is really the fun factor.
> We, in the family, enjoy playing strategy games (a good example - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carcassonne_(board_game))
> 
> I do the same, only on an area of several square miles and with the time scope going in years.
> ...


Greg, I would agree at some point it is like a game. Anticipate the next move, have a Strategy, make your play and learn. Also +1 to Mike P if it ain't fun why do it? My old challenge was to "be ready" Now I have a dry erase board on the wall. looking at supering next summer backwards to today. And box count , hive count etc. So I see my job for this week is to make 5 NUC bottoms and lids and order 5 more NUC boxes. then in Feb is making some supers.
It is way more fun if you are ready when you pop the lid to whatever the bee gods have in store for your day. I would think the pros know what is under the lid, I still get a surprise once and a while. 
Well happy Holidays , Merry Christmas to all and to all a good season.
I have visions of fat queen cells going thu my head.
Matilda is that you.......

GG


----------



## LAlldredge (Aug 16, 2018)

Refreshing my post from last year since folks liked this one and to see if answers are still the same. 2020- Started with 5 and ended with 7. 5 production and 2 in a resource hive. Really like this number since I have other hobbies, a job, fuss so much and have limited space to store. Fun factor better this year with a first harvest and knowing more what to expect.


----------



## Kuro (Jun 18, 2015)

mistyped


----------



## Kuro (Jun 18, 2015)

Yup, still the same. I started this season with 3 over-wintered colonies (2 full-sized hives & one nuc), raised 3 queens, got rid of the old ones, and currently have 3 colonies (2 full-size & one nuc) going into winter. I’m a backyard beekeeper since 2015, and 2 (or 3) is always the right number for me.


----------



## Murdock (Jun 16, 2013)

LAlldredge said:


> Started with 4 this year and ended with 5. I’d love to hear from backyard beekeepers about the fun threshold and the right number of hives for them and why. My 5th colony was a swarm and its presently overwintering in 1/2 of a resource hive snuggled up to a big colony. Right now the best number seems to be 5 regular sized colonies and 2 nucs within a resource hive. Anything more would seem like work. I love the bug. I also like having a population threshold to share resources. Not even interested in honey if I’m being honest about it. Have you started with larger numbers then scaled back? Or the opposite?


4 plus a couple of nucs for queen replacement. I also love catching swarms so i may give away some.


----------



## Honeyeater (Jun 21, 2020)

Two is a good number for me and inspecting them is fun not a chore. I can’t legally keep more here in my backyard anyway.

My journey into beekeeping had a rocky start but now I’m settled and at least I can recognise my own mistakes. Also, never start with just one.


----------



## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

The number is different for each individual. I myself now have just 4, and figure 3-5 is plenty for me.


----------



## Fivej (Apr 4, 2016)

On some days none. It really all depends on the amount of free time you have, your age/physical limitations, amount of money you want to spend. I wouldn't recommend a limit because each will find it as they go along. I do recommend a minimum of two hives and three is ideal for those just starting out. J


----------



## Ranger N (Sep 23, 2020)

I now have 5 plus 1 NUC I am trying to get through the winter for the first time. It is a medium stacked 5x5 and so far it looks like it is doing well. I had a VSH queen that I ended up not needing for a strong hive and started the NUC. I am keeping my fingers crossed and a close eye on it. I prefer 2 hives but ended up getting called to pick up 3 different swarms around the area and they took off. I hope to get them through the winter and donate to new bee keepers in the spring. Hope it works out...


----------



## CCBEES (Jul 23, 2020)

I am new at this so I can't say how successful I will be, but I can't see myself having more than 5 colonies. My family goes through about a quart of honey a year so that is not a big motivator that would make me want more bees. With 5, there should be a good chance I get through each winter with at least one colony. Since getting honey is not a big deal for me, building even a single survivor colony in spring into 4 or 5 by fall doesn't seem overly ambitious so there should be a good chance of being sustainable without constantly buying bees and queens. Of course it is easy for someone just now facing his first winter as a beekeeper to say that, and time will tell. For me I just can't see the fun in dealing with a hundred boxes and thousands of frames, let alone trying to manage so many colonies. I want beekeeping to be an enjoyable experience and not to have to spend hours every week managing bees and equipment.


----------



## LAlldredge (Aug 16, 2018)

CCBEES said:


> I am new at this so I can't say how successful I will be, but I can't see myself having more than 5 colonies.


If you have good queens 5 in my opinion is totally sustainable. And yes the research says that when you get to 5 the odds dramatically improve having at least one winter over. What I didn't plan on was 100% survival. I'm trying to stay away from being overly enthusiastic about a skill like splitting and then resent the hobby. Fun to me is about building confidence over time. Right now I'm enjoying feeding them snack food.


----------



## LAlldredge (Aug 16, 2018)

Ranger N said:


> I now have 5 plus 1 NUC I am trying to get through the winter for the first time. It is a medium stacked 5x5 and so far it looks like it is doing well. I had a VSH queen that I ended up not needing for a strong hive and started the NUC. I am keeping my fingers crossed and a close eye on it. I prefer 2 hives but ended up getting called to pick up 3 different swarms around the area and they took off. I hope to get them through the winter and donate to new bee keepers in the spring. Hope it works out...


If you treated aggressively for mites, have a good queen and good nutrition chances are they will make it. First year is a nail biter though. That's why I use vivaldi boards. Something about opening them up and seeing them through the screen is a lift.


----------



## Ranger N (Sep 23, 2020)

*Lalldredge*, mites have been slain and will do a one time OA shot between Thanksgiving and Christmas to get that NUC through the winter. I was in the top box of it a week ago and it has a solid dome of honey across the top and sides of that box. still had plenty of capped brood on the center frames as well. 
Vivaldi board? I have never used one. you have good luck with them? Do you make your own or do you order from somewhere? Something I may consider going forward if they increase winter survival, especially for NUCs. Do you have a picture of one? Thanks...


----------



## LAlldredge (Aug 16, 2018)

[QUOTE="Ranger N, post: 1845835, member:
Vivaldi board? I have never used one. you have good luck with them? Do you make your own or do you order from somewhere? Something I may consider going forward if they increase winter survival, especially for NUCs. Do you have a picture of one? Thanks...
[/QUOTE]






This is what they look like. Mine is a hybrid of the Mannlake winter cover with some extra height and holes drilled in the sides covered with hardware cloth. The idea is to remove excess moisture from the hive. A simple screen filled with wood chips would do too. It doesn’t have to be expensive but these boost over winter success by another 10-20%.


----------



## Ranger N (Sep 23, 2020)

LAlldredge said:


> [QUOTE="Ranger N, post: 1845835, member:
> Vivaldi board? I have never used one. you have good luck with them? Do you make your own or do you order from somewhere? Something I may consider going forward if they increase winter survival, especially for NUCs. Do you have a picture of one? Thanks...



View attachment 61203
This is what they look like. Mine is a hybrid of the Mannlake winter cover with some extra height and holes drilled in the sides covered with hardware cloth. The idea is to remove excess moisture from the hive. A simple screen filled with wood chips would do too. It doesn’t have to be expensive but these boost over winter success by another 10-20%.
[/QUOTE]


----------



## Ranger N (Sep 23, 2020)

OK. I have seen those but Have never used one like that. I use a 1”x3” shim with 2 1” holes drilled on either side with window screen covering the holes. The bees tend to Propolis the screen pretty much closed but I think leave what they are comfortable with letting air pass thru. Never thought of placing #8 hardware screen on the bottom for observation. I reckon I could try that and place sugar cakes right on top of the wire for them if they need it in late winter? Hmmm... 
I see you are from Sisters, OR. I grew up west of you across the Cascades just S of Roseburg on a small farm. My folks had bees back then and so grew up around bees. Joined the Military and finally settled down in SC due to family and weather. I definitely enjoy the mild temps. We used to hunt mule deer out of Chemult I think, every year for 2 weeks at a time when we were younger as a family. I also enjoy fly fishing that area of the state when I get back that way. Good luck going into and through the winter over there. Thanks..


----------



## LAlldredge (Aug 16, 2018)

Ranger N said:


> OK. I have seen those but Have never used one like that. I use a 1”x3” shim with 2 1” holes drilled on either side with window screen covering the holes. The bees tend to Propolis the screen pretty much closed but I think leave what they are comfortable with letting air pass thru. Never thought of placing #8 hardware screen on the bottom for observation. I reckon I could try that and place sugar cakes right on top of the wire for them if they need it in late winter? Hmmm...
> I see you are from Sisters, OR. I grew up west of you across the Cascades just S of Roseburg on a small farm. My folks had bees back then and so grew up around bees. Joined the Military and finally settled down in SC due to family and weather. I definitely enjoy the mild temps. We used to hunt mule deer out of Chemult I think, every year for 2 weeks at a time when we were younger as a family. I also enjoy fly fishing that area of the state when I get back that way. Good luck going into and through the winter over there. Thanks..


I'm familiar with Roseburg. Farm life must have been serene. I have an acre but I'm surrounded by Deschutes National Forest so I can ride my horse out my driveway into the forest on an endless trail system. As far as feeding with the vivaldi board; I feed under the screen and within that square in the middle so they have a food court basically around that hole in the middle. When I want to replenish I take a jar of loose sugar and my water spritzer and pour sugar through the screen then spritz it to make a slurry. 

I also like that they can't fly out at me when I open it but I can see down into the cluster. Super popular spot unless it's super cold and they are down in cluster. Since they over wintered beautifully last year that way I'm not inclined to change much.


----------



## Ranger N (Sep 23, 2020)

Well, I envy you having a whole national forest out your back door. I will definitely give the vivaldi thing a go this next year and see how it goes. In the mean time, like i said earlier, i may just attach some hardware #8 to the shim and see how that works out. thanks and good luck...


----------



## joebeewhisperer (May 13, 2020)

I have killed off just about every bee every 2 years. Never had over 4 hives until this year. Figured this year I would up my odds of bringing a few through winter. 

Had 1 (of 4) coming out of last winter (3 dead-outs with some drawn comb). Bought 3 packages and put back in the drawn boxes, and later 3 Russian queens from Coy's. Gave away 2 colonies, 2 queens, sold 1 nuc, and 1 queen. I have 7 10-frame deep hives in the backyard (most with at least a medium of stores), and 6-7 more 6-frame nucs in polystyrene. I went at it obsessively and enjoyed it more than anything I've done in years. However, once it got to 10ish, it became work. I think it's just how much time or money you have to spend on equipment. We shall see what Feb brings.


----------



## Robert Holcombe (Oct 10, 2019)

LAlldredge said:


> Started with 4 this year and ended with 5. I’d love to hear from backyard beekeepers about the fun threshold and the right number of hives for them and why. My 5th colony was a swarm and its presently overwintering in 1/2 of a resource hive snuggled up to a big colony. Right now the best number seems to be 5 regular sized colonies and 2 nucs within a resource hive. Anything more would seem like work. I love the bug. I also like having a population threshold to share resources. Not even interested in honey if I’m being honest about it. Have you started with larger numbers then scaled back? Or the opposite?


When you get tired of bottling it is time to scale back - naturally and with focus on quality. We ae setting about building a "high tunnel".


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

> 42 is the correct answer according to the computer Deep Thought in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.


Yes. 42 is the right answer.


----------



## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

I am going to see if I can do 20 again this year (reduced to two locations). Last time it just about made me quit.
I was having fun raising queens and making new boxes. Suddenly there were a bunch of boxes with bees in them. Maybe somebody is coming in at night and putting new bees here? Winter will thin them out some and I can play some more.


----------



## joebeewhisperer (May 13, 2020)

minz said:


> Maybe somebody is coming in at night and putting new bees here?


For real...... They do seem to multiply in good weather.


----------



## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

joebeewhisperer said:


> For real...... They do seem to multiply in good weather.


Bees do two things really well, make honey and make more bees.

22 hives and 20 nucs (42 colonies) seems like a good number. Also a fan of Douglas Adams.


----------



## joebeewhisperer (May 13, 2020)

JWPalmer said:


> Bees do two things really well, make honey and make more bees.
> 
> 22 hives and 20 nucs (42 colonies) seems like a good number. Also a fan of Douglas Adams.


I was looking back for this thread after thinking considerably about the proper number of hives to take into winter. Seems fitting that the late great JW Palmer (and Mr Bush) had 42. 

This year has worn me out completely. It's not the being in the bees, as I haven't been able to touch them in a week. It's the everything else, including dealing with people, scheduling sales etc. So hats off to all you folks keeping large yards as well as a job. I think 42 is at least 2x what I like. Thoughts???


----------



## Newbeek2021 (May 13, 2021)

I would like enough to replace my income so i can stay home & just do "bee stuff" & not deal with humans....so whatever that number is is my 5yr goal  
(If gonna dream, dream big?)


----------



## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Newbeek2021 said:


> I would like enough to replace my income so i can stay home & just do "bee stuff" & not deal with humans....so whatever that number is is my 5yr goal
> (If gonna dream, dream big?)


You just as well start your own beekeeping Youtube channel around your 5-10 hives.
Actually may make more money. 
I feel you'd bee good at it actually- sense of humor, etc.

PS: I did NOT say "a lot of money"; I did said "more money"..... LOL


----------



## RNSwans (Jul 3, 2021)

gww said:


> I have 9 hives right now and ten extra hives built. I am so glad that those ten extra hives don't have bees in them. I live in fear of having a smarmy season and not having equipment to catch or stop the swarms that my hives may decide on one of these days. If the emptys were full I would feel pressure to build more cause I don't like losing bees. I try to keep my hives from wanting to swarm cause I am not unhappy with what ten or so hives does for me and don't want to build a bunch of equipment just to sell it.
> 
> I am retired and do not want another job but do like a hobby. I don't treat and I am not a good sells man and don't want to put in the effort to become one.
> 
> ...


When I started in bees 5 years ago, I asked the gentlman who I got my nucs from, how many hives I needed to be self sufficient, that is, not have to buy queens, be able to withatand some losses and still recover.
After some thought, his respinse, about 10.
Although I am at 15, his response was valid.


----------



## gator75 (Apr 21, 2021)

3


----------



## Cloverdale (Mar 26, 2012)

joebeewhisperer said:


> I was looking back for this thread after thinking considerably about the proper number of hives to take into winter. Seems fitting that the late great JW Palmer (and Mr Bush) had 42.
> 
> This year has worn me out completely. It's not the being in the bees, as I haven't been able to touch them in a week. It's the everything else, including dealing with people, scheduling sales etc. So hats off to all you folks keeping large yards as well as a job. I think 42 is at least 2x what I like. Thoughts???


I am with you, this year I am tired…from 20, overwintered 16, now at 27. Now that is too much for me, and yes, ran out of equipment, etc. I think 20 for my age is not fun; 10 fun.


----------



## twinoaks (Sep 1, 2018)

Newbeek2021 said:


> I would like enough to replace my income so i can stay home & just do "bee stuff" & not deal with humans....so whatever that number is is my 5yr goal
> (If gonna dream, dream big?)


I am so with you. I never would have guessed at the beginning of this beekeeping journey that I would one day find the company of many thousands of (potentially) stinging insects preferable to that of human beings---but yes, I too have arrived at that place.

This summer was taxing. We had a lot going on with 2 adult children moving out on their own, plus I made the decision to forego providing Spring nucs to new beeks--in favor of selling only overwintered nucs. It is just too taxing to get queens grafted and mated early in the Spring while also managing hives. So this year, I am going into winter with about 25 full sized hives and 55 nucs. It sounds like a lot more than it is, and will be easier to manage going forward.

ps--- I live near the late JW Palmer and have stayed in touch with his family. They are managing pretty well. His bday was yesterday. RIP John.


----------



## joebeewhisperer (May 13, 2020)

Newbeek2021 said:


> not deal with humans


Ironically, I use to get in the bees and relax. Didn’t have anyone wanting anything. In order to make money you have deal with humans. That’s been part of the exhaustion. 


Cloverdale said:


> I think 20 for my age is not fun; 10 fun.


I think 15 (1/2 nucs) would be my sweet spot. Had 14 last fall and it was big fun. 


twinoaks said:


> I am going into winter with about 25 full sized hives and 55 nucs. It sounds like a lot more than it is,


Good, because it sounds like a lot! 😃


----------



## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

I've stuck to just 3 this year, and have been mostly hands off as well, and it's been one of my less stress years. More than that is more work than I want. That's just me in my situation, everyone has different numbers that works for them.


----------



## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

Newbeek2021 said:


> I would like enough to replace my income so i can stay home & just do "bee stuff" & not deal with humans....so whatever that number is is my 5yr goal
> (If gonna dream, dream big?)


I agree that is a goal worth pursuing. I think the most difficult part of this proposition is how hard one has to work during the transition into self employment in the apiary, away from being an employee.
I have found the customers that are more knowledgeable about honey are the ones that are the most pleasurable to deal with. 
People can be strikingly different from one area to another.

Alex


----------



## broncorm (Mar 9, 2018)

Every Year I tell myself 20 hive and 20 nucs would be a good number. Right now I’m and 30 hive, 27 nucs and 1 observation hive In the living room


----------



## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

broncorm said:


> Every Year I tell myself 20 hive and 20 nucs would be a good number. Right now I’m and 30 hive, 27 nucs and 1 observation hive In the living room


 I'm laughing with you, not at you.

Alex


----------



## Newbeek2021 (May 13, 2021)

broncorm said:


> observation hive In the living room


Im so jealous but if i tried that ID be sleepin out in the beeyard 😂


----------



## Norcal Mtns (Mar 28, 2021)

RayMarler said:


> I've stuck to just 3 this year, and have been mostly hands off as well, and it's been one of my less stress years. More than that is more work than I want. That's just me in my situation, everyone has different numbers that works for them.


Lightweight that I am, I combined two hives to get down to three. Now I am hoping for a swarm to get to two, which is the perfect number for me, 😂. Four was too much.


----------



## joebeewhisperer (May 13, 2020)

AHudd said:


> ... I think the most difficult part of this proposition is how hard one has to work during the transition into self employment in the apiary, away from being an employee.


Yep. If I hadn't had that pesky job to contend with, this year would have been a piece of cake. Could have also expanded more. Just buy a ton of boxes and ..... oh wait, no I remember why I get up so early. 


Newbeek2021 said:


> Im so jealous but if i tried that ID be sleepin out in the beeyard 😂


My wife fixed a big brunch earlier. Why I was high on pancakes and syrup she said, "I'm thinking maybe as you get toward winter you could move them that way." as she motioned toward the northern end of our field.


----------



## GFWestTexas (Jul 10, 2021)

joebeewhisperer said:


> My wife fixed a big brunch earlier. Why I was high on pancakes and syrup she said, "I'm thinking maybe as you get toward winter you could move them that way." as she motioned toward the northern end of our field.


You should of just agreed with her, and then said, “ You are absolutely right dear, that way, I have tons of room for next year.” While motioning all the way back.🤣😂 I stay in the dog house, I love it there, it’s warm, and quite, my dog doesn’t talk back.🤥


----------



## Newbeek2021 (May 13, 2021)

GFWestTexas said:


> I stay in the dog house, I love it there, it’s warm, and quite, my dog doesn’t talk back.🤥


😂 😂 😂


----------



## psm1212 (Feb 9, 2016)

psm1212 said:


> 12 would be my minimum. Have 20 now. Sold 16 this year. I picked up a new customer this year that runs through about 150 pounds of honey a month (retail store.) So I have to go up to about 40 to keep them supplied. Will try it for a year and see. I have a full time job. I like getting up early and working hard all day on Saturday and Sunday in the bee yards. But I might cross the fun/no fun threshold at 40. We will see.


Ha. Glad somebody brought this old thread back up. 

I got to 70 this year. I have another hernia. That makes 3 in the past 8 years of beekeeping. 

I have trickled back down to 58. It was too much. Way . . . way . . . too much. I'm thinking maybe I was correct in my post from 2 years ago. 40 is the fun threshold for me. This season was not much fun. At least not the harvest. 

Either less hives or hire help. That is where I am now.


----------



## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

psm1212 said:


> This season was not much fun. At least not the harvest.


So I recon the harvest was good.
But was it worth it (monetarily and otherwise)?
Sounds like a "no".

Let me bring up again an old story about an old beekeeper who lamented:

I made a lot of money beekeeping
Then I spent all my money to fix my broken knees (because of the beekeeping).


----------



## Newbeek2021 (May 13, 2021)

GregV said:


> Let me bring up again an old story about an old beekeeper who lamented:


And then you joined beesource Greg?


----------



## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Newbeek2021 said:


> And then you joined beesource Greg?


My right shoulder has been poor since the childhood.
Then during my years working in the warehouse loading trucks (and hitting the mandatory daily quota!) I injured my shoulder even worse.

So now days one of my main interest around the "bee-playing" is figuring out how to make it ergonomic for both myself and the bees - so not to damage my shoulders even more.
And some other things...

Honey is too trivial to worry about - but I get enough for the family and my landlords (and get much more valuable products - those worth more).

I think this topic started by LJ is valuable that way - stop hanging up on the "traditional beekeeping".
It is really not worth it anymore.









Part-Time Beekeeping


The economic reality of part-time beekeeping is something I've thought about many times, but have never put into words myself. However, I came across the following on a German beekeeping website yesterday, and I must say that I found this guy's argument to be rather compelling - as well as being...




www.beesource.com


----------



## Newbeek2021 (May 13, 2021)

I was being a smart alec, didnt know you were literally talking about yourself. Sounds like nows the time in your life you should get some young apprentices to do the heavy lifting.


----------



## GFWestTexas (Jul 10, 2021)

That’s the reason I decided to have so many kids. Of course I failed to figure in their food consumption, Dr. visits, etc. Nope I will probably never break even.🤠 That said wouldn’t trade it for the world. Love working the yards, but am seriously considering building bee houses, with Slovenian AZ type hives, tired of being in the sun all day, and the lifting takes its toll. I figure 12-24 hives in one location, temperature controlled from my side…Oh yeah that’s the way to go. Then off to the next bee house. Should have done it years ago.


----------



## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Newbeek2021 said:


> I was being a smart alec, didnt know you were literally talking about yourself. Sounds like nows the time in your life you should get some young apprentices to do the heavy lifting.


I simply educated myself to land an office job. LOL.
But heavy lifting in beekeeping should not be required - and it is not (it is just a well kept secret).


----------



## joebeewhisperer (May 13, 2020)

psm1212 said:


> Either less hives or hire help. That is where I am now.


I thought about that as well. My time in them is frequent but sporadic. Having to schedule someone else in there and finding someone crazy about bees, or that's not afraid or work, or ideally both, might prove difficult. And as much as I joke about working for $4/hr this year, 2 weeks of a decent-paid helper might blow my margin to $2.


----------



## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Here are some beekeeping off-shoots that are fun, potentially decent money-making, and don't require many bees (IF any).

psycho-therapy sessions (including yourself)
work shops/classes around bees and beekeeping
equipment building (for others)
api-therapy sessions (including yourself)
access to non-available bee products (bee bread)
setting up and maintaining observation hives for the clients (including maintaining the live colonies)
<propose your ideas>

Point being - no need to hang up on this traditional "honey mining" model - it is hard and is not paying much.


----------

