# AFB, decided to destoy hives, need advice?



## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

Burn all frames in the brood boxes. You can get a cheap torch that fits to those camping fuel bottles and scorch the inside of your boxes, no need to burn those...just make sure to scrape off all the excess wax first. You can also make a very strong chlorine/water mix in a tub and soak them then set them out for the rest of the season. If you had honey supers on get rid of those frames too. I burned two hives this year when I noticed the first hint of AFB and prevented it from spreading to my other hives, including those on the same pallet. Early detection is the key and quick removal and burning will keep your other hives from getting infected.

Good luck in the future.


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## Riskybizz (Mar 12, 2010)

Jim,

It's best to burn everything, tops, bottoms, boxes and naturally all the comb. Don't fool around with trying to disinfect anything, or scorching a few boxes. It's not worth it. Every time you look at those old burnt boxes its going to remind you of 7 hives of american foulbrood. You were not a bad beekeeper, it sounds like maybe you just got your bees (or equipment) from a bad beekeeper. Are there other beeyards around you ? Have you talked with your local bee inspector? Start over with everything new and you'll thank yourself in the long run, and so will your bees.


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## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

Burning and radiation are the only things that kill AFB spores. Bleach/chlorine just gives them a sterile environment to thrive in. Scorching the wood may or may not kill all the spores. I do not know of a state that controls AFB that does not require total destruction by burning or irradiation at an approved facility. The risk is not only to all your hives in the future but of spreading to all the bees in your state as well. That is a little more liability than I would risk. I worked hard for my home and what I own. I would not risk losing everything to save a few dollars.


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## Ted Kretschmann (Feb 2, 2011)

It maybe that AFB is in the area around you. So having said this but knowing you want to go chemical free, I would still if I were you consider preventative treatments of TM and A little tylosin mixed in powdered sugar for your bees. You do this by dusting twice in the early spring and once in the fall. AS a commercial beek, we sometimes have to burn colonies also. Nor do we try to save the boxes but then equipment we have lots of. It is just one of those occurances that will make you very sad but wiser in the next attempt beekeeping. You have to do what must be done, because ALL the inspection laws in the USA were originally put in place to control a scourge-AFB. Infection rates went through the roof. That is how bad things used to be in the early part of the twentieth century. TED


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Jim: How do you know it's AFB?


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

Ted Kretschmann said:


> It maybe that AFB is in the area around you. So having said this but knowing you want to go chemical free, I would still if I were you consider preventative treatments of TM and A little tylosin mixed in powdered sugar for your bees. You do this by dusting twice in the early spring and once in the fall. AS a commercial beek, we sometimes have to burn colonies also. Nor do we try to save the boxes but then equipment we have lots of. It is just one of those occurances that will make you very sad but wiser in the next attempt beekeeping. You have to do what must be done, because ALL the inspection laws in the USA were originally put in place to control a scourge-AFB. Infection rates went through the roof. That is how bad things used to be in the early part of the twentieth century. TED


Ted is right!!! Burn everything!!!! AFB came from somewhere and it could be all the bees around you have it.When you get new bees and equipment treat,treat,treat!!!! I am a treatment free beekeeper but when it comes to AFB I will definitely treat!!! Been in your shoes and I will never go there again!!!! Its heart breaking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Ted Kretschmann (Feb 2, 2011)

Jim Lyon has a good point, how do you know it is AFB?? Do you see greasy, punctured cappings. Does the larvae string out when poked with a match stick into a gooey, snot like consistancey?? Does it have a terrible odor that is beyond describing. You smell it one time you will never forget it. Does the brood pattern look like it has been shot with buckshot-extremely spotty with dead greasy, capped,punctured brood. If you can certainly say yes to the very first criteria for AFB-the match stick test, then burn you must. But remember there are other brood diseases that have a similar look but do not rope out into a stringy, snotty, sticking mess when poked with a match stick. TED


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## yantabulla (Jan 9, 2011)

Jim,

There is a lot of good info at this link. Aussie context in terms of legislation but the disease is the same. 

The youtube videos are particularly good in the first link under General Information.

http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/agriculture/livestock/honey-bees/pests-diseases

The only solution for your bees & brood combs is burning. Can you arrange irradiation for your hardware? It may be cost effective if you have good quality gear & you can start again with sterile equipment.

Best wishes,

Yanta


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## Jim S (Jul 12, 2008)

Thank you everyone. I think it is foulbrood because the cappings on the brood cells are dark and sunken, some pin holes in them, the brood inside is chocolate goo, but is not stringy, match stick does not string out goo, and the odor is not awful. I couldn't find any other explanation for those observations. I figured it was the beginning stage of AFB. All hives have it, 3-4 frames in each hive have those signs. Some cells are empty around the infected cells. I think I got the disease from a friend's frames, who got it from another man's equipment. I appreciate the advice to burn everything. How do I disenfect equipment, hive tools, brushes, do I start over with everything, clothing? And what is the best way to kill the bees before I burn everything.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Ted Kretschmann said:


> It maybe that AFB is in the area around you. So having said this but knowing you want to go chemical free, I would still if I were you consider preventative treatments of TM and A little tylosin mixed in powdered sugar for your bees. You do this by dusting twice in the early spring and once in the fall. AS a commercial beek, we sometimes have to burn colonies also. Nor do we try to save the boxes but then equipment we have lots of. It is just one of those occurances that will make you very sad but wiser in the next attempt beekeeping. You have to do what must be done, because ALL the inspection laws in the USA were originally put in place to control a scourge-AFB. Infection rates went through the roof. That is how bad things used to be in the early part of the twentieth century. TED


I'm confused ......We have Tylosin to treat or just try and prevent?
Larry


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

If its not AFB you don't need to burn everything. 
Have someone help you figure out if it is. There are test kits available from someone, I don't remember who sells them.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

The Beltsville Bee Lab can test for you. Go to their website (just google ) and it tells you how submit your samples for testing.........and best of all, it's free!

Larry


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## John V (Jun 7, 2010)

You can order tests through Dadant for EFB and AFB. I'd test for both just so you will double confirm it is one and not the other. I had EFB in one of my hives a few months back and I had to test for each just so I could sleep at night... What ever you do, you need to do quick. I delayed, and am lucky I had the EFB rather than AFB. Otherwise, my delay might have effected more than my own hives. You can get EFB under control but not AFB as AFB has long lived spores contrary to EFB.

Later, John


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## Ted Kretschmann (Feb 2, 2011)

Jim, can you post a picture of the suspected disease??? I want to make darn sure that it is AFB before I go about telling you how to handle the problem. AS a commercial beek, I have burned my fair share of AFB infected colonies over the course of four decades keeping bees. There are other diseases that look sort of like AFB. Some are, Sacbrood, Parasitic Mite syndrome, Late stage European foul brood, Para foul brood. I would send a sample off to test or use the commercial test as advised above. When you get your results back, I am sure the forum will have a consensus on how to handle the problem and the methods used. TED


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## Jim S (Jul 12, 2008)

Thanks Ted, I will try to get pictures and put them up. Thanks John and Dan, I have ordered those kits. And thanks Larry, I have the Beltsville address and will get them a sample. I do want to get this taken care of as soon as possible. That the brood is not stringy and that there isn't a strong odor gives me some hope it is not AFB, I had no idea there could be other diseases that looked similar. Thanks guys, appreciate all your help. I will keep you posted.


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## Jim S (Jul 12, 2008)

Here is my attempt at a picture. I am pretty sure it is foulbrood. How much equipment do I destroy. I have have enough boxes for 20 hives, covers, bb, etc, misc equip. Do the spores get everywhere, someone said the honeysupers should go too. I have seven hives infected, all my hives, but probably picked it up from a friend's equipment last year, so, do the spores travel, am I save burning current hives and any old frames, or should I burn all boxes, bb, covers, etc.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Jim,
Don't you have a State Apiarist you can call to assist? If not, what about a close beekeeping club that has someone knowledgeable (Master Bee Keeper). Since all your hives are affected, don't be in a hurry to burn until you're sure. Could be EFB which is treatable.

Larry


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## AR Beekeeper (Sep 25, 2008)

If it is AFB all that it is necessary to burn is the frames/combs. Scrape the boxes, bottom boards and inner covers to remove the wax and then pressure wash them. Pressure washing will remove as many of the spores as will scorching.

If the diseased larvae have melted down to a goo and it doesn't string out but is granular when stirred with a match stick you could be seeing Bee Parasitic Mite Syndrome.

You can clean hive tools with a bleach solution and you can wash gloves with soap and water to remove spores. Spores must get into the food chain and be fed to the young larvae so chances of infection from tools/gloves/boxes, etc. is slim.

You did not say if all of the larvae that were infected were in the prepupa or pupa stage or if you had dead larvae that were still curled in the cells. AFB kills after the larvae is sealed and streached out or has become a pupa.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Jim S said:


> Do the spores get everywhere, someone said the honeysupers should go too. I have seven hives infected, all my hives, but probably picked it up from a friend's equipment last year,


Picture didnot work.

If AFB is the correct diagnosis, the spores are in the honey. That is why the honey should be destroyed. Which is usually done in a pit, so once everything is burnt, it can also be buried, making it unaccessable by other bees.

You mentioned picking it up from a friends equipment last year? How do you suppose that happened? Did you trade or borrow supers? Did your friends colonies come down w/ AFB? Were they killed and destroyed?

You mentioned going away for a month and returning to find all 7 colonies infected or showing signs of infection. It seems strange to me that all seven colonies came down w/ and showed signs of AFB at the same time. This could very well turn out to be AFB, but I wonder if it might actually be something else.

I look forward to the photos.


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

Dont waste time with this.The longer you wait the more hives can be infected.I would not wait for samples to be sent off and then received back with results because by that time all the beekeepers hives in your area could become infected.How to recognize AFB is one of the first things a new beek needs to learn.


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## John V (Jun 7, 2010)

Here are a few pics of the EFB I had in early spring.....

























I have not had experience with AFB yet, so I can't describe it so much as EFB. With EFB there is little odor until it starts getting really bad. You may see a few larva turn from off white to black in color. The larvae also seem to be what I would call "lazy", and slowch over or fall over in their cells. From there they appear to melt into a puddle of goo the same color the larvae was when it finally died, and the goo won't rope out. After that, the goo dries into a rubbery slim that you are able to remove with a toothpick. There really is no capped brood pattern as they are not capped before they die. Some may be lucky enough to compete with the bacteria until they are capped but will soon perish in the cells. 1% might overcome the bacteria and emerge. 

I had three hives that were infected. Two of which were hived swarms that I gave a frame of eggs from the original infected colony before I caught the symptoms. Oops, is really all I can say. Next time I'll be more observant. I did treat all three hives with tetra-bee and they have fully recovered with full and complete brood patterns.

I diagnosed the symptoms, did a double confirmation test, and for the test outing I had everything I needed to burn the hives if they tested for AFB. Luckily they did not. I hope I helped a little. Good luck!

Later, John


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

snapper1d said:


> Dont waste time with this.The longer you wait the more hives can be infected.I would not wait for samples to be sent off and then received back with results because by that time all the beekeepers hives in your area could become infected.How to recognize AFB is one of the first things a new beek needs to learn.


OK, I'm a new beek, want to send me a link? (I actually went to the afb video link I saw yesterday, but more info is always good.)


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

snapper1d said:


> Dont waste time with this.The longer you wait the more hives can be infected.


Haste makes waste. Reducing entrances to protect against robbing should keep further spread from occuring until lab diagnosis confirms the field diagnosis. I have field diagnosed hundreds and hundreds of cases, which were later confirmed by lab analysis. All the time the infected hive remained in the original apiary. No further spread of the disease occured in that apiary, during the month or 6 weeks necassary for lab confirmation to get back to me and the beekeeper.


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## Jim S (Jul 12, 2008)

I want to thank everyone who commented. I found your advice very helpful. I would like to update any interested. After taking pictures, that I could not figure how to show you, I realized that what I have is foulbrood, I wanted to be cautious, but the pictures, and especially the ropey brood convinced me that what I have is foulbrood. I have started to destroy the hives. What an awful experience that is, I closed up the hives and put a couple cups of gas in the inner cover opening. The noise of all those bees was an experience I would hope you never have. I will burn all that equipment. I am still uncertain what to do with the honey supers. If I have had foulbrood spores for over a year, which is realistic, are there spores in all honey super frames as well. I will bake some of the smaller equipment, inner covers, bottom boards, etc. I want to make sure the boxes are are not carrying any spores, from what I have read, charring the boxes only eliminates spores on the surface and when the charring wears off, spores underneath are exposed. Previous threads on this site said that baking at 388 degrees for two hours or irradiating are the only ways to get rid of spores. Is there evidence that other, easier solutions are effective? Again, Thank you all for your advice. I don't have an irradiation facility near me.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Sorry for the loss........would still send samples to Beltsville Bee Lab.............


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## Walliebee (Nov 17, 2006)

I know it is a difficult event to deal with--sorry. I would destroy everything that was used within the last year, and everything that was stored with equipment used within the last year. 

While I have no experience in this area, I would be cautious about baking equipment, and thinking (hoping) that it's clean, but finding out it isn't when (if) you are in this same situation a year from now.

IMO, the only way to really be sure that you have a clean apiary is to start with all new equipment.


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## Katharina (May 2, 2011)

Just read about two field test for ABF so I pass this along. One use milk powder for testing. Quite interesting!


Field test for American Foulbrood:
During the early stages of decay until about three weeks after death, the dead larvae have a gluelike consistency. To test for the disease, choose a larva that is discolored and exhibits a melted appearance. Insert a match, twig, or toothpick into the cell, stir the remains of the dead larva, and then slowly withdraw the test stick. If a portion of the decaying larva clings to the twig and can be drawn out about an inch or more while adhering to the dead mass, its death was probably due to AFB. This “ropiness” of freshly dead larvae is a characteristic symptom of AFB.

Another field test to confirm the presence of AFB can be conducted using powdered milk. Combine one teaspoon of the powdered milk with 100 milliliters (slightly less than half cup) of water and mix thoroughly. Pour the milk into two small, clear, glass vials or other similar containers. Collect a sample from the suspect AFB colony by opening a diseased cell and stirring the contents with a toothpick. Collect as much of the larval remains as possible on the toothpick and place in a clean container or wrap in foil. Insert the previously collected AFB sample into one of the prepared vials. Do nothing with the second sample. Place both vials in a warm location for one hour. After one hour examine the samples. If the sample is positive, the vial with the AFB sample will become clear. Use the second sample for comparison.


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