# New beekeeper, one week after package install, lots of dead bees



## Keth Comollo (Nov 4, 2011)

Not sure what is going on but one thing I noticed is organic sugar. My mentor told me it contains solids that the bees struggle with. Perhaps you can look into that and pull that feeder off.

Oops, just realized that you pulled the organic off already. That does appear to be a larger than normal die off of foragers. Interesting to see what the experts have to say.


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## alecpap (Apr 29, 2012)

Thanks for your reply Keth. The current syrup in the feeder is 1/2 organic and 1/2 conventional.


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## StevenG (Mar 27, 2009)

I'd quit feeding the organic sugar, stick with regular cane sugar. Don't use powdered, or confectioner's sugar either. Be sure the water/syrup has cooled to touch before you put it in the feeder. Has anyone anywhere near you, sprayed lately? Do you have any brood/eggs? See the queen? Do any of the bees have shriveled or deformed wings? Deformed Wing Virus, an indication of Varroa mites. If there are a lot of dead/dying bees in front of the hive, I'd suspect some kind of poisoning.
Regards,
Steven


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## dixiebooks (Jun 21, 2010)

First thing that popped in my head was pesticide poisoning. -james


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## Tom Brueggen (Aug 10, 2011)

Did you shake/pour the bees into the hive from their shipping cage? Did you notice a lot of dead bees in the package when it arrived. Some suppliers will tell you that up to an inch of dead bees in the package is normal upon arrival. I think I only had less than 100, but I picked my bees up direct instead of having them shipped via USPS. I suppose it's possible that all those bees were dead when you poured them in the hive (if you poured them in) and the others just hauled them out. The one that you observed struggling could be anything, I'd toss that out of the study for now. I had one that I found flitting around like that, but she was loaded with pollen, so I picked her up and helped her into the hive. Figure if she's going to die I'd at least get that pollen! They could have just stopped taking the feed because there is already a flow on and they don't feel they need it. Or it could be that they really just don't like it.

What is the condition of the rest of the hive? That's what's important, not all the dead bees outside.


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## alecpap (Apr 29, 2012)

Thanks for all the replies, they're very much appreciated. Today after the sun was out for a while I opened up the hive and pulled a few frames. There has been a little bit of comb built. I wasn't able to find the queen, but I saw what looked like a few eggs inside some cells. I also took the feeder off, rinsed it out pretty well, and put in 1:1 syrup made from regular cane sugar. The bees were pretty tightly group together, but since putting the cover back on there has been quite a bit of activity. I was working about 30 feet away from the hive and saw a bee flying around checking things out, which I took to be a good sign.

Here are a couple more pics, which I like much better than pics of dead bees. 





I was planning on making up some pollen patties this weekend and putting them on top of the frames underneath the feeder. The Scottish Beekeeping Assn put a recipe online that I came across and thought sounded good (3 parts soy flour, 1 part brewers yeast, 1 part dry skimmed milk). Is it alright to use pollen patties in addition to 1:1 syrup syrup?


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## Andrew Dewey (Aug 23, 2005)

I can't imagine that you need pollen sub at this time of year. Isn't Minneapolis dripping with pollen?


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## alecpap (Apr 29, 2012)

These bees are up in Hackensack, MN (not far from Mann Lake, Ltd), there is plenty of green around but I'm not sure if there is much pollen.


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

They look fine.

Won't hurt to put on half a pollen substitute patty, but check often and remove it if they aren't using it. 

It won't hurt to feed them until they draw out two deeps or quit taking the feed, either.

Sadly, pesticide kills are a normal part of beekeeping, although I suspect your dead bees are more likely just the ones that were at the end of their life when installed.

Peter


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## S.M.N.Bee (Aug 9, 2011)

alecap

Good to see you got rid of the organic sugar syrup. Be carefull feeding pollen sub. this time of year. It likes to mold when the temps warm up. The bees should be able
to find plenty of pollen this time of year.

Check the hive in a week or less and make sure you have a laying queen. A package has limited time before the bees get old to start building up.

Good luck 
John


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## tjmuenc (Dec 22, 2011)

It is recommend to feed a pollen substitute in northern minnesota until there is enoungh natural available and there is not enough yet. I have also read that you should not boil the sugar in water just dissolve it or it could cause some bee mortally. 
I put the inner cover over the top feeder so when I take the off the cover I can remove as a unit so no bees enter or after I take the cover off place something over the hole of inter cover and better control access.

Tom


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## ByGonzah (Feb 4, 2012)

alecpap said:


> I was planning on making up some pollen patties this weekend and putting them on top of the frames underneath the feeder. The Scottish Beekeeping Assn put a recipe online that I came across and thought sounded good (3 parts soy flour, 1 part brewers yeast, 1 part dry skimmed milk). Is it alright to use pollen patties in addition to 1:1 syrup syrup?


Pollen is protein. Syrup is carbohydrate. You should feed both. 

I hived two packages on April 14th into single deeps with pail feeders. They have each since burned through 4 gallons of syrup and two pollen patties apiece. Even with the amount of pollen available, there is a limited number of foragers. They've packed some pollen away, but they've been relying heavily on the patties. It's paid off in tremendous brood growth in the last month. Have to put 2nd deeps on tomorrow.


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## Keth Comollo (Nov 4, 2011)

Feed the pollen sub but make half what you think you need. I always made too much and threw it away. A half a patty will get them to their pollen flow which is just around the corner in your neck of the woods I imagine.

Hang in there. Looks better that I imagined. You will be fine!


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## Ben Brewcat (Oct 27, 2004)

While the organic sugar issue may be a problem (if it's not white), it wouldn't likely cause a kill. The solids give bees dysentery (diarrhea) so they have to take cleansing flights and may soil the interior, but it's not usually fatal. That looks more like a pesticide kill unless there were a good pile of dead bees in the package that were shaken in during the install, then it might just be those carcasses that the undertaker cleaned out.

Really, it sounds like they're probably OK. That's plenty close for water (they'll forage miles for it just like other resources). They should be able to get pollen just fine, but if you offer some sub/supp it won't hurt. Keep feeding them 1:1 sucrose (just regular, white table sugar) and let them settle for a while. If you can, rake or brush the dead bees away so you can note if more are accumulating and at what rate.

And consider letting them settle for a bit. Daily or near-daily examinations can be stressful. It's not what's killing bees! But it can interfere with queen acceptance and does cause them to have to interrupt their routine for a bit. Watch the entrance, lift the inner to check the feeder, but try to let them do their thing for a few days. They should get back in the saddle just fine.


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