# drawing out mating nuc?



## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

I have both of those nucs. The small wooden one is cool looking. 

If you are goign to by a package this year, get an extra queen and shake half the bees in one mating nuc and the other half in the other and place both queens into each half of the nuc. This would work great.

Or.... you can get a package in April, let them build up until you need the mating nucs and than devide them than. That would work. 

You can also make a special box that would hold all the mini frames and shake the package in there. Than when you need the mating nuc, dvide the bees and frames up and go from there. I am doing a spin off from this method whch should work great.

If you are not buying packaes, shake some bees from an established colony and they will draw out the min frames.

hope this helps


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

The frames do not have to be drawn out when you place the cells. Just feed them. I ordered styrofoam nucs from Mann Lake ( the German ones, I forget the brand name). Anyways put 1 pop can of bees, filled the feeder and placed a queen cell. I placed them in a cool dark room for 2 days so the cells could hatch, then took them outdoors. At that point the frames were half drawn. Another feeder full and the frames were more or less fully drawn. All the energy goes towards building wax, there is no brood to feed or keep warm.

Jean-Marc


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## Velbert (Mar 19, 2006)

Hi Maine_Beekeeper
You will enjoy raising some extra queens.

I did mine like jean_marc Make sure the bees you are to put into the nuc have been queen less at least over night (Especially if you don't have a cell protector) But I left mine plugged 3 days after the cell hatched,the top bar MH i put a pint of HFCS by the time the queen started to lay the frames were almost all the way built....80% 

Velbert


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

>Cut down existing drawn comb and fit into the frames?

I did that too. And then placed the combs in the middle of an existing brood nest. For most of them, the queens refused to lay in the little combs, and the bees put nectar there. Some did lay, and that was the start. 

I think I'd do as the others here said. Add a can of young bees, and confine for a couple days.


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## Aspera (Aug 1, 2005)

Do most of you generally recommend the mini-nucs over full sized ones? How many queens do you need to raise before they become worthwhile?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Jay Smith's advice:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesbetterqueens.htm#The%20Question%20of%20Mating%20Hives

The short version is, the larger the nuc the more resources it takes to set it up and the less babysitting it requires. The smaller the nuc the less resources it takes to set it up and the more babysitting it requires.

My mating nucs are all two regular medium frames. One of brood and one of honey to set up a mating nuc. This is an intermediate size between a baby nuc and a five frame nuc. It can grow some before it runs out of room. I can combine all the mating nucs into larger nucs as I sell of the queens in the fall or combine all of them into a hive. I don't have to figure out where to store the combs from mini nucs for the fall, winter and spring.


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## Velbert (Mar 19, 2006)

Hi Asp era

It all depends how many queens you want to raise. not much extra work if you continually pulling queens and putting in queen cells Just evaluate situation and do the need task either when you place a queen cell or pull the queen. and have feed handy with you each visit in case their may be a few needing feeding. to get into a producing nuc 1 trip when making up nuc (Feed) 1 visit place queen cell (Feed if this cell is replacing a pulled Queen,1 visit to visually find the virgin day after hatch. 1 visit to check egg laying time.1 visit to pull laying queen. Quit a few trips if you are to stay ahead of the game.You also will get a lot bigger % of laying queen with individual units I have done the 6 packs 3 compartment in mediums and deeps.The deeps are hard to get the queen out if she happens to be on a side wall


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

>Do most of you generally recommend the mini-nucs over full sized ones?

I guess it depends on what you have for equipment. If I was starting fresh, and had deep combs and regular nuc boxes, I would start with those. You can learn how to raise quality cells, and get your timing right...raising cells, using the cells, harvesting mated queens, using the queens you harvest.. Adding one more thing like getting mini frames drawn and with breood, might be one extra step that will be too much at first. When regular nucs are raised for mating nucs, you can overwinter them with the last round of queens. Two birds with one stone.

If you would like to go to mini-nucs, start slowly. TRhen, those too can be overwintered. Additional boxes of mini-combs can be added the following spring, and will be laid in by the queen. In a few years, you'll have all the stocked mini-nucs that you need. As MB said, they're a bit more work, at first...like in the spring to prevent swarming. But, once you're in the cycle, you harvest a queen every 16 days, and re-cell. If you have two groups of nucs, then one group is harvested every 8 days...it's an 8 day rotation.

>How many queens do you need to raise before they become worthwhile? 

Don't know what you mean by this. They're all worthwhile, aren't they?


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## Aspera (Aug 1, 2005)

thanks all for the good answers.

Michael,
I didn't state that clearly. What I meant to say was: How many queens must I raise per year before the mini-nucs become the system of choice for many beekeepers?


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

You do not need to raise many queens from a mini for it to pay for itself. the investment of bees is very small, the syrup needed to sustain them in times of dearth is very small. they take up very little room when stored. I think they're great. A very good hive in the spring can stock 40 mini nucs. After mating you have 30 queens for sale at say $15.00 each that hive has generated $450.00. I'd say 1 queen per year per mini nuc becomes the choice sytem for many beekeepers.

Jean-Marc


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## Gary L (Jan 24, 2007)

Check my reply to Barney in equipment/hardware
Gary L


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## lake thompson honey (Feb 11, 2007)

i recently purchased 150 of the styrofoam mini mating nucs from mann lake. i intend to use them in texas this spring. there is a vent on the bottom. does this need to be open or shut? what about fire ants? i am guessing that i should set them on something other than the ground. i am wondering if i should put the queen cells in when i stock them with bees or wait a day or two? is it necessary to put them in a dark place before opening the door and letting them fly? any other advice any of you have would bee greatly appreciated.

thanks,
dave


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## Albert (Nov 12, 2006)

Dave,

Put those nucs on a stand or bench of some sort! Find some way to keep those fire ants from climbing the legs of your stand. Sticky trap, legs in cans of oil with some kind of way to keep water from getting in. 

Somehow, and I don't know how, the fire ants here disappeared about 2 and half years ago. Just gone. In their place a little black ant took over.

Albert


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## Jon McFadden (Mar 26, 2005)

It took Will and I about 4 hours to construct the 16 nucs we made last year for $1 ea.
While I made the woodenware, he cut out and glued up the boxes.
I mass produced all the innards and have a sack of left overs because I didn't bother to be exact about the amounts of parts I needed. We were under pressure to get these ready because we had an unexpected number of queens ready to hatch. I was using the Nicot system for the first time last year and didnt really expect the number of queens we wound up with.
A big help was provided by a large swarm we caught. It was all geared up for starting a new colony and worked the frames quickly. In three days they worked up more foundation than we needed.
We would put in three of the nuc frames in a regular medium frame; two right side up and the third, in the middle, upside down. As soon as they were ready, we would take them out and put them in the empty boxes.
The swarm was housed in a regular deep super with drawn foundation. The medium super was added to the top.
http://nordykebeefarm.com/forum/default.asp

[ February 24, 2007, 11:08 PM: Message edited by: Jon McFadden ]


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## Velbert (Mar 19, 2006)

Hi LTH

I go and collect my bees from several colony's that are to make up the nucs and place then in a big screened frame work. Leave them in there overnight (Queen less) then as I make them up I put a queen cell in or a virgin.if they are on foundation or empty built combs with no brood you need to leave them closed up for 3 full days after the Queen cell has hatched. At the end of the 3rd day the queen gets her pheromone and every thing will be OK. I use the ones from beeworks they a little bit bigger (4 frame top bar).than from mannlake mine nucs. I will put about 3/4 pint of HFCS in the feeder and use a 12 oz cup of bees to stock them. Keep in a well shaded and ventilated place while they are closed. 


I found if you dint leave them closed up until the Queen gets her pheromone they will all leave with the queen.

It was hot so I opened some up at the end of the second day WRONG thing to do 

I had done up about 30 or 35 all left except about 3 or 4

They say you can stock them with bees from the bottom.

What I do is fill the feeders first Put in a piece of hardware screen in the feeder for the bees to crawl down take out 2 frames pour in the bees put frames back in and close up for the time needed.

If you put in young virgins say 1 day old you will not have to leave closed up but for 2 full days (also if you put in a virgin that is under 3 days old before she receives her pheromone they will have a bigger % turn out of acceptance.

I would leave the vent open 

If you are putting in a virgin dont place the queen cage on the bottom, wedge between the frames. It was in June nice and warm so I just dropped the virgins onto the bottom went back in 3/4 days candy was still in the end but no queen in the cage. so I went checking all of them empty no queen in the cages but still had the candy plugging the ends of the cage UNTIL i found something in one the HEAD of the queen and fire ants in the bottom of the nuc they was not eating the candy but the Queens.


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## lake thompson honey (Feb 11, 2007)

velbert, thanks for the info. i looked at your photos at photobucket and wondered what was your procedure with the six packs? was that a standard ten frame deep? also do you set your nucs on the ground or something else?


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## Velbert (Mar 19, 2006)

The 6 packs is a 10 frame deep hive body. I mainly wanted the 6 pks for over wintering some late raised queens above a strong full size colony so I would have plenty of queens for splitting come spring time. I have a 2'' hole in the bottom under each section so the warmth could come through.Dint have near as good turn out with the 6 pks as you will the single units. I would stay with the single units The ones you got from mann lake they are nice I like the vent toward the top You may not want to put in as many bees as i did in my top bar MH 9 or 10 oz cup size would do good and you don't have to get the combs built ahead of time just put in plenty of bees a 1 inch or little bigger starter strip of foundation and feed good and by the time the queen is mated they will have them built (just don't over feed they will plug the combs full of feed and the queen will not have much room to lay

I got me some cement blocks to set mine on and bought a strap to go through the hole in the block to secure the MH so the wind don't blow them off.If the Fire ants keep bothering them i may have to build some metal stands or mount them on a pole.

[ February 27, 2007, 08:51 PM: Message edited by: Velbert ]


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## lake thompson honey (Feb 11, 2007)

velbert,

you use a one inch starter strip of foundation? is that all i need? do they make any drone brood below the starter strip?


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## Velbert (Mar 19, 2006)

1 to a 1 1/2 will be plenty yes some of them did build a few patches of drone cells some didn't build any drone cells at all. you could go on down with foundation to the bottom edges of your frame if you like it may keep out those unwanted drone cells. When you set up your Mating nucs try to have them level from the front to back so the comb will be built straight down


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## Allen Martens (Jan 13, 2007)

Velbert,

I'm intrigued by your 6 pack mating nucs. Are you having success with these compared to 4-way mating nucs or individual mating nucs.

I'm wondering about mated queens finding their way back to the appropriate nuc.


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## Velbert (Mar 19, 2006)

*6pks*

Hi Allen 

learning this new form They are not near as good as the single units some times I only get 2 or 3 and the some times 3/5 May be 60 % over all where the single units usually get 75/95% last year I tried virgins in the 6PKS and got only about 4 laying Queens out of 40 Terrible 
sorry for being slow to answer just noticed your post


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## Jon McFadden (Mar 26, 2005)

My son and I built our own mating nucs last year. I didn't want to post anything on them until I had a chance to try them. They worked great! At a cost of $1 per nuc I thought the price was right.
Here is a link to how we built them:
http://nordykebeefarm.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=6
Jon


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## Keith Benson (Feb 17, 2003)

"2 "mating nucs" from Brushy http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com....asp?pcode=657 "


Are the frames in this hive half length? 

Keith


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## Maine_Beekeeper (Mar 19, 2006)

Yes - they are half length and medium super depth.


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## TwT (Aug 5, 2004)

Maine_Beekeeper said:


> How do I get these drawn out before placing in queen cells?
> How is this done by people who know?



I am going to try this this year and this is what I was told by a older beekeeper, like mike said above about the sizes, 2 mating nuc frames equals a normal length medium frame, all I am to do is put a divider bar across the middle of a regular medium super and then you can install 20 mini frames and set on a hive and let them draw them out if you want quick drawn frames for mating nuc's. if you put it right above the brood chamber you can just transfer the brood and bee's on the mini frames into the mating nuc and just add Q-cells. just watch it because if you put it to for above the brood nest you will get mini honey supers and some hives will add some honey on a few frames anyway but this can be good to add to mating nuc's also. just my 2 pennies worth.....


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## Velbert (Mar 19, 2006)

*Drawing out mating Nucs MH*

These MH were made up with a 1..8 Oz cup of bees and a queen cell confined for 4 days from the time the queen cell was put in 

The ones on built comb compared to the ones on foundation were close to the same amount of brood the main difference the one on built comb had more stores in the comb.

Just tried with 8 Oz compared to 12 Oz (LIKE 12 Make Up better)


http://s59.photobucket.com/albums/g307/vlwbee/?action=view&current=000_0055.jpg

http://s59.photobucket.com/albums/g307/vlwbee/?action=view&current=000_0056.jpg



http://s59.photobucket.com/albums/g307/vlwbee/?action=view&current=000_0054.jpg

http://s59.photobucket.com/albums/g307/vlwbee/?action=view&current=000_0053.jpg


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