# Warre hive lift design - light, compact, cheap, and easy to build



## chaindrivecharlie

Will, that is a super nice lift. When I get to where I need to use one, I will remember this.
Thanks!


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## Solarbeez

That's nice. I like the idea of taking a manufactured item and using it for another purpose. I only have one Warre now and for some reason it only built in one box. I recently added another box on top, but the hive hasn't moved either up or down. Not sure what to do, but plan to build that hive lift come winter time. Thanks for posting it.


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## ubernerd

Solarbeez said:


> That's nice. I like the idea of taking a manufactured item and using it for another purpose.


I have a habit of doing that. Don't know why - it's just convenient, I guess. My nickname among my friends is, "MacGuyver" because of all the kludged together contraptions I have. You should see my hydraulically powered apple cider press... 



Solarbeez said:


> I recently added another box on top, but the hive hasn't moved either up or down. Not sure what to do...


Bummer. I'm pretty new to all of this, but one thing I've learned is that the bees do what the bees want, and rarely bother to give us an explanation of why. Mine built like gangbusters through 3 boxes, and then just stopped. The hive looks like it's absolutely *crammed* with bees, but they won't build down into the 4th box. Their home, their remodeling choices, I guess.:kn:


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## Zonker

Bees typically like to build comb during the spring flow. It might just be the wrong time of year.


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## Solarbeez

Do you think the bees can survive the winter with the honey that's in just a single box? I would have been happier to have an extra box or two going into the winter.


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## Zonker

I think one box is pretty thin. Two is pretty normal. Is it a normal sized box? Is it warm enough there to feed occasionally during the winter? Running one hive is hard, can't borrow stores from another hive, cant combine weak hives for the winter, can't make a new queen from another hives brood, etc. If I were in your place, I think I would put the second box under the original box and see if they will take some food. I'd put a small piece of comb in the empty box to give them the idea that they should build down. With enough food, if they will take it, they might decide to expand they're holdings.


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## kilocharlie

Ubernerd - There is a good explanation about how to include pix in your post in the queen rearing forum thread by Oldtimer - "Raising queens without grafting" page 10, post #189 & #191.


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## Bubbles

To Solarbeez,

My bees in the Warre hive won't build down either so I added a super with two ladders (foundations hanging from a nailed together top bars). So if you don't have an extra comb, that might be the way to go for you.


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## Solarbeez

_


Zonker said:



I think one box is pretty thin. Two is pretty normal. Is it a normal sized box? Is it warm enough there to feed occasionally during the winter? Running one hive is hard, can't borrow stores from another hive, cant combine weak hives for the winter, can't make a new queen from another hives brood, etc. If I were in your place, I think I would put the second box under the original box and see if they will take some food. I'd put a small piece of comb in the empty box to give them the idea that they should build down. With enough food, if they will take it, they might decide to expand they're holdings.

Click to expand...

_All good reasons to have a second Warre hive...which I did buy as a kit, but after all the trouble I had installing the bees into the log hive, I was reluctant to try a third hive. I'll do that next year. I know where to get feral bees now or who knows maybe my log hive will throw a swarm.

I'm reluctant to feed the bees, but am 'waffleling with the Warre'. If I decided to feed them, which empty box should I use...the upper or the lower?

_Bubbles

Re: Warre hive lift design - light, compact, cheap, and easy to build
To Solarbeez,

My bees in the Warre hive won't build down either so I added a super with two ladders (foundations hanging from a nailed together top bars). So if you don't have an extra comb, that might be the way to go for you._ 

Thanks for the advice, should I put the comb in the upper empty box or the lower extra box?
Thanks,
Pat


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## Bubbles

It seems to work best to put the comb in the upper empty box because I read somewhere that bees don't like empty spaces above them. I may be wrong though. After all, I'm a newbeek too. So do ask the old-timers' opinions also.


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## Solarbeez

ubernerd said:


> I've been thinking about switching over to a screened bottom board for mite counts, but have been dragging my feet at the thought of hefting the whole hive to switch out bottom boards. This weekend, as a "real work" avoidance strategy, I built myself a hive lift. It's built based on some of the various lift designs on David Heaf's page, but is a bit different than all of them.
> 
> If you're bored, want more details, or are looking for a cheap, easy-to-build design that doesn't take up a lot of space to store, check it out:
> 
> http://people.westminstercollege.edu/faculty/wdeutschman/contents/warre-lift/warre-lift.html
> 
> (I'd put a picture here, but I'm not smart enough to figure that part out, as I keep getting error messages....)
> 
> 
> Will


Hi Will, 
If your offer still holds, I'd like to take you up on the offer of 'details.' Turns out my wife has absolutely no faith in me. On another forum someone with the same problem with their Warre, suggested I take out the bars in the bottom box and let the bees continue building downward. I told my wife I'd lift up the top two boxes if she grabs out the bars in the third box. She thinks I might drop the whole affair and the bees would be flying around stinging the heck out of us. So now I want to build that lift so I can jack it up slowly and safely with no problemos. Hope it's not too late in the season.
Pat


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## ubernerd

Solarbeez said:


> Hi Will,
> If your offer still holds, I'd like to take you up on the offer of 'details.' Turns out my wife has absolutely no faith in me. On another forum someone with the same problem with their Warre, suggested I take out the bars in the bottom box and let the bees continue building downward. I told my wife I'd lift up the top two boxes if she grabs out the bars in the third box. She thinks I might drop the whole affair and the bees would be flying around stinging the heck out of us. So now I want to build that lift so I can jack it up slowly and safely with no problemos. Hope it's not too late in the season.
> Pat


Solarbeez,

The offer is definitely still valid. Hit me with an e-mail at:will(dot)deutschman(at)gmail(dot)com and we can chat about any specific details you have questions on. Most of the trick of this lift involves getting the hole size right for the parts that clamp on the trailer jack. So, once you have your trailer jack, we'll just need to know the diameter of the upper shaft.

Will


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## Zonker

Not trying to be snarky, in fact love the design, with wheels its a mini homemade forklift for my workshop, but why are you all trying to lift the warre boxes? If you putting a box on the bottom, why not just set the boxes on the ground?


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## Solarbeez

Zonker said:


> Not trying to be snarky, in fact love the design, with wheels its a mini homemade forklift for my workshop, but why are you all trying to lift the warre boxes? If you putting a box on the bottom, why not just set the boxes on the ground?


I'm new to this Warre hive business...don't know how much everything weighs or how to take it apart. Do you take off the roof part, the quilt box, and then (in my case, the empty box on top), then the full of comb box separately? Don't the bees get agitated? I'm trying not to stir them up too much. I prefer not to use smoke. Maybe some water sprayed on them. "Hey girls, it's raining, get back in there." 
Or do you heft up the whole thing, bending over, lifting, and twisting. What to do?
Thanks for any advice.
Pat


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## ubernerd

Zonker said:


> Not trying to be snarky, in fact love the design, with wheels its a mini homemade forklift for my workshop, but why are you all trying to lift the warre boxes? If you putting a box on the bottom, why not just set the boxes on the ground?


For me, the thought was that when nadiring, or switching out bottom boards, or removing unfilled boxes at the end of the year, if I can briefly suspend the hive w/o taking it apart, these operations become very non-invasive for the hive. If I have to dissassemble the hive to do them, they're a lot bigger deal (Nestduftwärmebindung and all...). Problem is, as my hive reaches 3 and 4 boxes tall and 100+ pounds, lifting it in a controlled, safe fashion by hand becomes *really* hard. That's one of the design issues with the Warre, as far as I can tell.

So, many folks have found that these lifts make hive manipulations a snap. Lift, chill, have a cup of coffee, inspect, take pictures, move your boxes around, set the hive gently back down. No pissed off bees. No thrown out backs. No sprinting out of the backyard after I topple the whole hive.  I have such control of my lift, I can set the hive boxes down so slowly that I don't have to worry about squishing a single bee. they have time to wriggle out as the boxes come down.

Just my thoughts. Oh, all that, and I get to take a day off from "real" house projects to do something fun and cool!


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## Solarbeez

ubernerd said:


> So, many folks have found that these lifts make hive manipulations a snap. Lift, chill, have a cup of coffee, inspect, take pictures, move your boxes around, set the hive gently back down. No pissed off bees. No thrown out backs. No sprinting out of the backyard after I topple the whole hive.  I have such control of my lift, I can set the hive boxes down so slowly that I don't have to worry about squishing a single bee. they have time to wriggle out as the boxes come down.


That's what I was thinking too. I'm going to email a photo of my base to see if that's going to be a problem.
Pat


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## Solarbeez

Got my Harbor Freight jack today. Looking it over and your set of plans (with the very nice photos I must add,) did you remove the base plate before you sandwiched on the bottom 2x3's?


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## ubernerd

My jack did not come with a base plate - hence I got a killer deal on it. I think if the base looks sturdy, I'd be tempted to just bolt it (or lag-screw it) to a couple of 2x6's (or whatever you have lying around). Then, you can screw the feet into the ends of those and you can avoid having to make the whole bottom clamp out of 2x3's.

OTOH, if the base plate looks a bit weak (since they're often not made with levering/torque in mind), I'd just put the sandwiched 2x3's right above it. You can offset the feet so they're on level with the base of the plate, if needed. I assume that's not more than a few millimeters.

Send me a pic if you want, and I can take a more specific look. Or, send me the link on the HF website. Either works.


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## Solarbeez

I want to thank ubernerd for the work he went through to get me going on the hive lift. I purchased the jack, found the wood, but will wait til next year to build it. I decided to build a feeder, one that will be accessible from the outside. I hate the idea of feeding, but I don't want to lose this little hive. The feeder goes partially under the hive box and 'hangs' on the side, so I won't be able to use the lift. Hopefully I'll only have to feed this winter and be able to remove the feeder in late spring or early summer. Then I'll be able to use the jack.
Thanks again, Will.
Pat


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## Zonker

Have you considered using bakers fondant or just dry sugar? Might work better in the cold.


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## ubernerd

Solarbeez said:


> I want to thank ubernerd for the work he went through to get me going on the hive lift. I purchased the jack, found the wood, but will wait til next year to build it. I decided to build a feeder, one that will be accessible from the outside. I hate the idea of feeding, but I don't want to lose this little hive. The feeder goes partially under the hive box and 'hangs' on the side, so I won't be able to use the lift. Hopefully I'll only have to feed this winter and be able to remove the feeder in late spring or early summer. Then I'll be able to use the jack.
> Thanks again, Will.
> Pat


Good luck on your wintering. May we both be lucky enough to have hives next spring!

When you get there, if you have any more questions on how to build the lift, let me know. I'll be happy to help as much as I can.


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## Solarbeez

Zonker said:


> Have you considered using bakers fondant or just dry sugar? Might work better in the cold.


I wrestled with the feeding issues, wet or dry, top feed or side feed. After I built the side feeder I saw the article about wetting a bag of sugar, letting the bag dry, and placing it over the bars. But that means you need an empty box on top. The side feeder is accessible from the outside without having to open the hive. To me, that's the important thing. I haven't started feeding yet. The weather has warmed up and rain is on the way. The girls were flying today. I'll keep an eye on the comb through the observation window to see if they are using up the honey. 

One concern with the side feeder is what if the cluster works it's way from the feeder side to the opposite side where they run out of stores...and then they need food. If that happens I guess I'll wait for a warm day between rain storms and place the sugar bag on top. We sometimes have a warm dry spell in late January for about a week.

I really don't know what the best method for feeding is...in my book it's "no feeding at all." I'm going to hold out as long as I can before I start feeding. My log hive is on it's own, but it's a stronger hive.


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## Solarbeez

ubernerd said:


> Good luck on your wintering. May we both be lucky enough to have hives next spring!
> When you get there, if you have any more questions on how to build the lift, let me know. I'll be happy to help as much as I can.


Thanks. I read some other posts about one Warre box going into winter. Some people have been successful at it. Our winters are fairly mild...but that also means that the bees are more active, needing more stores. It'll be interesting.


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