# Replacing foundation waxed frames with natural cell



## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

I would put the bees on a box of empty frames first, with maybe one of honey in the middle to kick them off. Swarms and new packages will draw wax quickly and usually perfectly if they don't have a choice. Then use the other frames in the second box for feed.


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## Cold Bees (May 18, 2007)

Ross said:


> I would put the bees on a box of empty frames first, with maybe one of honey in the middle to kick them off. Swarms and new packages will draw wax quickly and usually perfectly if they don't have a choice. Then use the other frames in the second box for feed.


I think I'll do that!


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

So, where are you getting this 'natural' cell foundation?
Or are you referring to small cell?


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## Cold Bees (May 18, 2007)

beemandan said:


> So, where are you getting this 'natural' cell foundation?
> Or are you referring to small cell?


Small cell, my apologies. 

The last lead I saw on buying some was here, if your hunting for it:
http://www.honeysupercell.com/

But I am game to see what the bees build with just the wood to guide them.


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## Cold Bees (May 18, 2007)

*Wiring?*

Just making sure, no point to putting in any wire in the empty deep frames?


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Cold Bees said:


> Just making sure, no point to putting in any wire in the empty deep frames?


If you're asking about adding cross wires when making foundationless frames, my advice is to add all four wires. The bees will incorporate the wires into their comb and the wires will add strength to the comb. Then it'll be less likely to break when you are handling the finished product.
When its finished you'll have honest to goodness 'natural' sized cells.


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## Cold Bees (May 18, 2007)

beemandan said:


> ..., my advice is to add all four wires. The bees will incorporate the wires into their comb and the wires will add strength to the comb. Then it'll be less likely to break when you are handling the finished product.


Yep, will do, THANKS. Package arrives tomorrow, so I have some time today, before I seal the deck, ugh.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I don't use deeps, but when I do Dadant deeps (11 1/4" frames) I put a 1/16" welding rod in the center wire hole to give some support. This has worked fine.

http://www.bushfarms.com/images/DadantDeep1.jpg

I suppose if I did do deeps I might be tempted to put at least one wire in.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Michael Bush said:


> I suppose if I did do deeps I might be tempted to put at least one wire in.


Wires seem like pretty cheap insurance to me.
When I first began to use starter strips I only used the center two wires. Once drawn out, holding the frames horizontally for inspections would sometimes cause the lower part of the comb to 'droop'. Using all four is pretty simple and cheap.
I suppose if I did do mediums I might be tempted to go without any wires.


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## Cold Bees (May 18, 2007)

beemandan said:


> Wires seem like pretty cheap insurance to me.
> When I first began to use starter strips I only used the center two wires. Once drawn out, holding the frames horizontally for inspections would sometimes cause the lower part of the comb to 'droop'. Using all four is pretty simple and cheap.
> I suppose if I did do mediums I might be tempted to go without any wires.


Just finished, wiring must be the thing I like least in this hobby, no matter how I set up to do it, the wire likes to tangle and I never get it as tight as I think it should be.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

You need to build or buy a spool holder that holds the wire tight. You also need to buy a wire crimper. It goes much better with the right tools.


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## Cold Bees (May 18, 2007)

Michael Bush said:


> You need to build or buy a spool holder that holds the wire tight. You also need to buy a wire crimper. It goes much better with the right tools.


And I need that correct sized staple gun to attach the wooden strip back onto the frame without cracking it or bending a million wire nails, I know you mentioned somewhere what the correct size for that was?

Speaking of the wire, what is the gauge/type of wire to look for, I have a spool from Dadant, but I bet it's much cheaper elsewhere?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>And I need that correct sized staple gun to attach the wooden strip back onto the frame without cracking it or bending a million wire nails, I know you mentioned somewhere what the correct size for that was?

I have 1/4" crown stapler and use the 1" long nails for the frames.

>Speaking of the wire, what is the gauge/type of wire to look for, I have a spool from Dadant, but I bet it's much cheaper elsewhere?

I buy my wire from Glory Bee. It's stainless and the best wire I've used. Actually the only wire I ever liked for wiring foundation.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Cold Bees said:


> And I need that correct sized staple gun to attach the wooden strip back onto the frame without cracking it or bending a million wire nails


Now, if you're talking about nailing the wedge back in place, I use 5/8in brads. I don't use staples for the wedge since I sometimes need to install new foundation or a starter strip and the brads make it easy to temove the wedge without breaking it. Also, the 5/8in brads are short enough that they don't protrude through the top bar. That makes it easier to scrape off burr comb.


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