# Salt water swimming pools



## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

ok I have a situation where some people are complaining about my bees getting water from their pool. 

The yard in question has been in use for probably 50 years and is almost a mile away. I haul barrels of water and there is a river a couple hundred yards from the yard.

The bee inspector told me that a salt water pool is so attractive to bees that they will pass up everything to get to it. Can this be true?


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## vegasvalet (Jan 10, 2011)

I would really questions that. How do they know they are your bees?? :scratch:


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

GO to the pool in question. Note if they are yellow or black. Requeen to the opposite. Go back next year and see what color they are. If they are not your color, take them to your hives. 

Smart money says they are not yours, too far.

Crazy Roland


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

Dust them with sugar...you will be able to tell!
Mike


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

It seems a long ways away, but the inspector(who they are now complaining to) told me about the salt water pools being so attractive to bees. Kinda made me wonder.


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

So are you sure the pools in question are salt water? As far as I am concerned... chlorine is (i think) a salt so really saltwater pools are kinda a misnomer...
mike


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

I did a bit of research on it(before I went out to load some hives tonight) and I think you are right -they still have some kind of chlorination but use salt for processing . The water isn't salty like ocean water. Maybe there are dissolved minerals the bees need.

Anyway, I have done all I can do to accommodate the complainers but they are getting rude in their demands that I move. 

I bet there are alot of beeks that stayed in California this year getting calls lol.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

I moved a yard earlier this spring over pool complaints.
It’s a lose-lose situation. Beeks don’t seem to appreciate the pool owner’s position. The pool owner surely doesn’t accept the beek’s position. Neither party is right….or wrong. No easy way out. 
In my case the property owner called me to tell me his pool owning neighbor was complaining. The property owner asked if there was anything we could do. I told him that the simplest solution was to move the bees. The property owner was clearly relieved. I had the bees off of his property the next day. After all, he has to live with those neighbors. And in my experience, albeit limited, any other course of action will eventually turn ugly. Then nobody wins.
Good luck.


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

You say the pool is a mile away. Water is so important to the bees, I can't believe they would travel that distance when there is a river right by the hives.
Might not be you're bees.


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## Thermwood (May 29, 2010)

You said you haul barrels of water to your bees, why not add some bleach, or whatever they use in the pool to your barrels of water? Maybe then they will not bother the neighbors....if in fact they are your bees they are complaining about.


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

For me we just put up with it...we have a 38k gallon gunite in ground pool. Usually we have about 10-15 bees around the pool at any given time. My dad teaches swim lessons on top of it. My mating yard is 50 yards from the pool...I just cannot move it...after every queen is mated (if not already) I plan to move it...but then will it solve the issue?
mike


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## Beetrucker74 (Oct 10, 2010)

The public needs to start learning to live with Farming in one form or an other. The mentality that we should always be the ones to move any nusence bees is hurting the industry. As was stated that yard has bin in use for 50 years not 50 days. Should the use of a productive yard be given up when there is no proof if injury just people seeing some bees around their pool, how long has the pool bin there bet not 50 years and if it has bin there for years why now? I have bin doing pollination for many years and I hear all the time how some person will move near a farm and then start complaining about farming going on around them, these idiots don't realize that with out the bees or the farms most people would starve.


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

*Been? Not Bin??? 
mike


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## Skinner Apiaries (Sep 1, 2009)

you know Horace Bell has a solarium over his pool 
side note, I dont like people to know where my yards are. Might not be possible in your situation, but I like yards that are gated, and out of sight... as the saying goes...


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

This yard was originally much closer to the the house with the pool. but 3 years ago they began to have bee problems, so i moved it further away and kept water barrels filled. We always put bleach in the water anyways to keep bacteria down. The bees use the barrels.

Last year everything was fine but now its not. Could be other bees closer. Anyways the bee inspector is driving out next week to check it out.

We have a right to farm law here so they cannot force me out. But the landowner can, and I think he is sick of the complaints. So it will likely be another lose lose for the beekeeper.

Nice idea Roland , but my bees are California bees(all different colors of the rainbow) lol.

The real problem, as was mentioned, is too many people moving into the wild and rural areas.At least with the real estate bust here that has slowed.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Agreed. Out of sight out of mind. The bee inspector said the same thing yesterday. I just couldn't hide this yard. It sticks out like a sore thumb!


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## Bob Nelson (Feb 10, 2005)

"QUOTE"Originally Posted by KQ6AR 
I can't believe they would travel that distance when there is a river right by the hives."QUOTE"

"QUOTE"This, too is true....bees being the efficient creatures they are. But how do you go about determining and proving that they aren't yours?
As I said in an earlier thread, if I were a pool owner and felt threatened by bees at my pool and I couldn't get help via the usual channels, I'd [...................]. I would eliminate the threat to my family and guests in my yard. Then, if they are your bees....you'd know for sure.
In its most likely course....it can get ugly."QUOTE"

I usually do not take issue with what others post but this time I respectfully must. Once bees become trained to any source be it pollen, nectar or water they remain with that source. Until it becomes limited enough they start looking elsewhere, find something better and communicate it with a stronger signal (dance) to the rest of the colony they will continue to utilize that source even with something just as good closer by. Thus are not always the most efficient from a human viewpoint and for 'our needs'. An example of this besides water is crop pollination. Research has shown that bees best pollinate when moved in just a bloom starts so they find the target crop first and work it.

Furthermore, I would caution even suggesting the misuse of a pesticide in a way that would be illegal and harmful to beekeepers. This forum is on the web and anyone searching for bees and swimming pools could very likely find this post and misguidely do something wrong. Let's keep it the least "ugly" we can. 

This was a post on a commercial forum and for people who make a living or in part from beekeeping. With this comes the need for a balance of working with those who are affected by our activities, the land owners we have relationships with and resources we have for other options. I have moved bees for both for legimate cause and not. In this situation I too would question whether they are even your bees but with you on their radar screen you have to weigh risk/benefit. Respectfully, Bob Nelson


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Bob, PR is important to us, so we cant afford to seem unreasonable about these things. I too have promptly moved hives when conflicts arose. This is a VERY important yard to us so will see what the county inspector finds. If my bees are the problem, then they will go.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

loggermike, how will the inspector know whether or not they are your bees? Just curious.


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

A mile to go get and bring back water.... seems a stretch to me. Perhaps the inspector will know if their are other bees in the area. Had a recent discussion with a guy about our bees being in his yard and this yard was over a mile from his house.... I explained to him that there was another guy with 60 hives in a yard just over the woods from him... far more likely to he his bees. Didn't seem to matter to him though, gave him some honey and he went away - have not heard anything sense. The beekeeper nearly always looses in these arguments.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

I’m not so sure that it’s only city folks moving to the country. I see more and more pools in farmer’s yards. Around here most farm folks raise cattle or chickens. They’re accustomed to the smell of open chicken houses on harvest day or litter spread on pastures. But, if their wives, children or guests get stung while playing in the pool, even country folks will get irritated. And if it gets to be a regular event they’ll put a stop to it. They’ll give the suspected beek an opportunity to resolve the problem but failing that, most have enough knowledge to get plenty ugly....and they won't need to do an internet search to figure it out.
Once again, good luck.


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## Beetrucker74 (Oct 10, 2010)

It would all be better if we could figure out how to fix Stupid. But most that complain do so untill they get there way or the law tells them they have no grounds. And even then half the time It is as Dan said the landlord still ask you to leave because of the hassle. Unless you have deepish pockets and pay for the yard then the landlord is more willing to keep you around. I find a couple Ben Franklins and some honey goes a long way in keeping a yard like that. Some time you have to stand up for yourself and deal witht the Ugly that does come along.


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## chillardbee (May 26, 2005)

if it is indeed a swimming pool, then I would think is not so much salt water as it is chlorinated water, which is very attractive to bees. get the owner of the pool to but a mark on the bees thorax with white out (easy to do) if they are your bees you'll see it soon.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Just to carry this whole idea a bit further. Any more, it seems that every third person I talk to (I may be exaggerating…but not by much) insists they are allergic to bee stings. And most have an epipen to prove it. Country and city folks alike. They get a bee sting, it swells and hurts, they go to the family doc, and he prescribes an epipen. And from that day forward they are convinced that the next bee sting will kill them. No amount of reasoning by a beekeeper will change their minds. They will believe the doc….every time.
So, one can see where a pool owner or even just a neighbor might be concerned. Surely one of his family or friends has this ‘condition’. 
We are in losing a battle against wrongful perception.


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

beemandan said:


> We are in losing a battle against wrongful perception.


You are so right! There really does seem to be a fast growing population of people who are convinced they are allergic to bee stings. When asked about their symptoms it almost always is pain and swelling, I suppose Doctors readily handout those epipens just to avoid litigation. Yup... it does look like beekeepers are on the losing end of a number of battles.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Dan, that is so true. I run into that everywhere. 

But the funny thing is,lots of them don't carry an epi pen. I had a friend who was truly allergic.The kind where you better get to the hospital in 45 minutes type allergic. He never went anywhere without that kit.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

I drove by the ranch owner this morning with 2 loads of bees on one of his other ranches. He didn't wave . That is a bad sign. Looks like PR time!


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

Thats not good. Is his honey account in the red?
Mike


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## bigevilgrape (Aug 21, 2008)

Is it at all feasible to close your hives for a morning to see if the bees are still at the pool? I'm guessing you have too many hives and its too hot there to make it worth it.


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## Thermwood (May 29, 2010)

Have you peronally visited the pool and witnessed the bees coming and going in the direction of your hives? Might be worth a visit.....

Wait too long and you will definately be moving your bees.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Too busy taking care of the other yards to go look at their pool. This is just a yard of splits but they need the buildup .

They said the bees were attacking them in their house, so no point in talking any further


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## swarm_trapper (Jun 19, 2003)

yup just had to move a yard that the bees were attacking the house who knew that bees stung houses? it is much easier in these cases to move. i hate to do it but i guess it is part of the job. 

Of course it is the one yard that i have that can be seen from the road if they never would have seen it probably never would have had to move them.
Nick


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## Beetrucker74 (Oct 10, 2010)

loggermike said:


> .They said the bees were attacking them in their house, so no point in talking any further


The moronic things people say never stops blowing my mind. If I were in your shoes I would fight them in court if I had to as long as you are leagaly about to use the ground. And after 50 years I would say you are. And 50 years no problem but now all the sudden these people have one. I would make them prove these are your bees


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

How much would it cost for you to notify the landowner of your plans, move the bees to over 3 miles(to be safe) from the pool, and then check on the pool in a couple of days. Document what you have done. If there is still a problem at the pool, Document again, and move them back. 

Crazy Roland


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

I will let the county bee inspector give me his report on the complaint , then will go from there. I offered to thin the yard out next week, which i do every year as the splits gain strength.

Hopefully that will resolve the issue.

I am somewhat puzzled as to why someone who is so terrified of bees would plant so much bee attracting shrubbery around a pool!

This area has so many wasps, hornets and bumble bees that even if I move all my hives there will still be visitors to their pool.


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

Its California! Not Texas! Like they are going to come shoot you off the land? Stay by all means and just let the stuff fly by. Unless you get kicked off. Then find a better place. 
mike


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## Riverratbees (Feb 10, 2010)

Tell them you put a tracking collar on a 100 bees or so and they get their water from the river. LOL


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Lol. I still have a box of old tracking collars from my bear hunting days, but they are a little big for these puny bees.

I'm getting too old to let anyone push me around!

I remember when I was on a logging job years ago. Homer Park had a yard on the timber company land and they told him he needed to move it . He told them "No . You can move your logging around it". The forester was laughing when he told us about it.


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## lavert5 (Mar 6, 2011)

I cant imagine a pool bein more attractive from over a mile away than a river just a few hundred yards to any creature. It would have a lot more variety of mineral content dissolved in it than a pool of chlorine that the bees would like. My guess would be that there is a hive closer maybe even a feral hive no one knows is there.


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

Take some old rags and rip strips into them, dip the strips in blue chalk (chalk line chalk) and staple over the entrances of the hives first thing in the morning. The chalk is harmless to the bees and will mark all your field bees long enough to see if they are going to the pool.


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## Thermwood (May 29, 2010)

I still do not think they are your bees, a quick trip to see for yourself could put an end to this, and save your yard.

You say you don't have time to find out. Moving your entire yard doesn't take any time?


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

You don't know these people! At this point, I'd almost rather kick a rattlesnake as go on their property.

The landowner would have kicked me off by now if he was going to. Its in my ball park. Since they brought the law ( county ag) into it , I want to hear his opinion first.He used to have a bee outfit, I heard.

I really appreciate everyones input on this. I guess its a problem we all have from time to time.


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

Good luck with the yard Mike. Sounds like a situation where regardless of where the bees are coming from it would be a good idea to move the yard.


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## Elwood (Apr 8, 2009)

Mike,

Please let us know how it gets resolved.

Thanks


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

If you move it now, you have achance to come back later. If you fight you will lose someone else will come in later. Be Mr. Good now it will come back to you.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Never heard back from the bee inspector. I moved half of them out, and brought in more water barrels. Maybe that did the trick. 

Tom,I just cant stand their demanding that I move them. I have other yards much closer to houses and never have problems. I think they are just unreasonable people who are used to getting their way.


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## krad1964 (Jun 4, 2011)

Just to confirm, I have a salt water pool and my bees are all over it. My neighbor, 100 yard away, has a regular pool and reports no bee problem. Providing another water source helps, but they still go to the pool. It has a solar cover, so provides an excellent platform for them.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

krad1964 said:


> I have a salt water pool and my bees are all over it.


They surely are drawn to salt. When working my bees in this heat....and sweating.....they will land on my arms and drink. If I get still for a moment there will easily be a dozen.


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

But folks its not salt..its converted to chlorine. Just saying.
mike


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

>>But folks its not salt..its converted to chlorine. Just saying.<<

Thats what the bee inspector told me, too. But there was some kind of difference that made the salt water pools much more attractive to bees ,in his experience. 

Looking back, I moved a yard several years back that developed a bee problem around a pool after they switched to 'salt water'. So what is attracting the bees?


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Ordinary chlorinated pools are pretty attractive to bees too. If those that are 'salt' chlorinated (I don't really know anything about this compound) are more attractive and if the salt types are becoming increasingly common.....it isn't going to be good.


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## LSBees (Sep 24, 2009)

We have a saltwater pool 25' away from some of our hives and we have no problems with bees.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

I am having alot of trouble with salt water pools, all the advice possible is welcome


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

LSBees said:


> we have no problems with bees.


 I'm guessing that it is your pool. I'm thinkin' that the tolerable level of bees around a swimming pool is much higer for a beekeeper than for a civilian (nonbeekeeper).


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## Bsupplier (Dec 23, 2008)

I have what I call 15 pet hives at my home. I live on a small pond and I have a pool as well. The vast majority of my bees are at the pond drinking and not the pool. I do have bees coming to the pool but as a beekeeper it is no big deal. I have taken the foam toys they make for kids called noodles and cut them up for honeybee life rafts to help reduce drowning. It seems if I install a new package of bees or bring in a colony I have a lot more action at the pool as the bees find this water source first. As the summer progresses the action at the pool slows. My system is chlorine based. Most of my hives are about 60 feet from the pool and a little further to the lake. I have been fortunate with the neighbors. If they call it's to tell me how much better there trees and gardens are doing. One of them told me they had not seen many bees in the area prior to us moving there and they were glad of it. A little free honey from those hives helps also.


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## gashmore (Nov 22, 2011)

Sorry to be late to this thread. We converted our pool to a salt chlorinator last spring. Within a week the skimmers were full of drowned bees. I have two 3 gallon poultry waterers set up near the hives but the bees prefer the salt in the pool 100 yards further away. I added about one tablespoon per gallon of kosher salt to each of the poultry waterers (Same 3000PPM ratio as the pool) and the bees returned to their regular watering holes. We rarely find bees in the skimmers any more. Before we went to the salt chlorinator the bees preferred the lake another 200 yards past the pool from the hives. Evidently bees prefer flavored water to fresh city water.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Thanks for the feed back.


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## Arkansas Beekeeper (May 23, 2010)

I have a salt water pool and hives. I had to move my hives. Salt water pools have hundreds of pounds of salt dissolved in the water. The Cl is
cleaved of by a salt generator and chlorine is produced. My hives were 200 yards from my pool. The bees would fly over a chicken feeder with 
sugar laced water and drown in the pool. Two years of summer droughts haven't helped.


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## BGhoney (Sep 26, 2007)

I tried to get an epi pen from my doctor and he would'nt give me one. I wanted it just incase someone got stung on the street or near my hives. We have hive tours and classes here, he said there was more risk of someone over stimulating there heart than dieing from the sting... Go figure


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## JensLarsen (Mar 14, 2007)

Give the bees another source of water and bait it with scent, lemongrass oil works wonders, HBH contains it. Keep you neighbours happy even if it is not your bees.

http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...-advice-on-bees-not-using-neighbor-s-fountain


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## Mtn. Bee (Nov 10, 2009)

loggermike: The Fatbeeman has a youtube video about if you are having trouble with bees getting into pools place a 2 lb salt block by each yard and your problems will be solved!
I know you beeks have already mentioned that it is, " Not the Salt" , but what the heck it is still worth trying!
Do a search and pull up the vid!
Best of luck to you! Mtn. Bee


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Watched the video.But it didn't actually show any bees on the salt block. Has anyone ever seen bees on a salt block?

I'm thinking if the bees want salt water,then adding some dissolved salt into my water barrels might work. I always put a glurp of bleach (that's a little bit more than a splash) into each 50 gallon drum of water.It was my understanding that the chlorine bleach broke down into salt.But maybe they need more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnF712YQ5CY
Thanks for the tip,Mtn bee!


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