# Queen rearing in top bar hives



## emilfy (Jun 5, 2014)

I Was told that the harden method can work in a top bar hive.I mean rearing queen cells in a queenright hive behind an excluder. I cant wait to try this! Any thoughts ?


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

I'm not familiar with that method, but did want to provide some response to your post. In my TBH's I use a "planned emergency replacement" to get my new queens. I have detailed that on my FB page in the link below. But basically, make sure there is freshly drawn partial comb in the brood nest that the queen has laid up, then pull the queen to a nuc and let the main hive requeen. The ripe, capped queen cells are cut out and placed in roller cages to emerge and I usually let the big hive requeen itself as it can be difficult to find all the queen cells so I don't want a virgin knocking off my good queen. Works very well to get about 10 queen cells.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1139345786091950.1073741851.687315994628267&type=1&l=bf02c0dfc5


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## shannonswyatt (May 7, 2012)

I'm not exactly sure how the Harden method would work with a TBH. The issue I see would be the way the blocking works with a Lang using the Harden Method. You can't do that directly with a TBH, since the comb doesn't allow for it. It may be possible to modify a TBH to do this, but it would be a lot easier to just do it with a Lang. From what I've read though it seems like the Harden method tricks the bees into making supercedure queens, so any queens you did manage to create could be quite good. Maybe if you just used an excluder and put the queen on one end and separated the eggs and young brood from the queen with empty bars or dry comb you could get the same effect. If you give this a go, post back to this thread, I'm curious how it works for you. I wish there was some way to use a Cloake board with a TBH, but I'll be ****ed if I can figure out how to put one in without the hive splitting into two pieces.


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## emilfy (Jun 5, 2014)

Thanks shannonwyatt. Maybe i shouldnt call it the Harden method if I'm going to use completely different equippment.. What I mean is to place an excluder in a strong hive and put grafted cell bars Les Crowder style behind it. As you say, the supercedure cells are what im after as well as keeping the hive productive and learn how to graft. As for the Cloake board, wouldn't a follower board next to the excluder do the Job? I've never used one before. I will post my experience. I plan to do it when the cherry bloom thakes off. Here in Marche Italy its late march or early april.


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## emilfy (Jun 5, 2014)

Thank you ruthiesbees. I have used the method you describe. it works great. I am interested in the queenright method so i dont have to weeken a strong hive. I am also interested in a significant increase and learn how to graft. I will still cut individual swarm cells and split a hive that wants to swarm into many little nucs as swarm prevention. Cool FB page!


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## AvatarDad (Mar 31, 2016)

I've never heard of the Hardin method, but wonder if I emulated it by accident last year.

I had a dark comb the bees had put a lot of drones in, and I moved it to the end behind about 5 bars of honey (thinking "these drones will emerge and then the comb will be filled with honey and I can cull it"). there must have been eggs on the comb as well, because there were 4 or 5 queen cells on it the following week.

It is said to be hard to fit an excluder in a TBH (although Dr. Magnum says he has good success doing so). My "honey excluder" seemed to work fine, however.


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## shannonswyatt (May 7, 2012)

Yes, I was kidding about the Cloake board. Sealing the edges of a follower to make it bee tight can be done with some cotton on the edges. The problem would be getting the workers to pack into the back of the hive. Probably the best way would be to move the queen behind the exclude and have a back exit to the hive.


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## emilfy (Jun 5, 2014)

To Avatar Dad: Serendipity! Cool stuff. I dont love queen excluders anyway  its the only thing I had to buy in my operation so far. Its great to discover Imight not need it either. I will definetly experiment with honey excluders this season. Thanks a bunch Avatar Dad. As for fitting an excluder in a top bar hive, tacking strips of wood (left overs from ripping bars) on both sides of the excluder takes care of beeproofing. Cutting grooves in sides and bottom isnt practical for me.The bees glue is to the hive. besides i like that i can chose the exact location to put it, and change it if i choose to. something you can't do with Langs, or Dadants here in Italy.


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## emilfy (Jun 5, 2014)

To shannonswyatt: In Avatar Dads comment, it seems that they did it even without being crammed. I thought I would put the excluder fairly close to the brood chamber,though, or on the edge of the brood so the last comb or two of brood is actually behind the excluder and the cell bars after that. I use tape for the follower board seal or like sam comfort does it, rolled fly screen netting stapled to the follower board on the thin side of the board.


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## shannonswyatt (May 7, 2012)

No doubt. I'm sure they would raise queens, but you want to have them packed in at first and then make them queenless. Then you have desperate bees and lots of them to start the queens. Then remove the follower to get them to finish them as supercedure queens.


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