# fire ant control



## fish_stix (May 17, 2009)

The commercial fire ant poisons are not harmful to your bees unless your bees dig around in the dirt looking for food. DE only kills the ants that come in contact with it, and believe me there are far more ants down in the mound than on the surface so the DE is practically useless. I've never had any bees killed off using the commercial poisons such as Amdro, Spectracide, etc. BTW, bull ants, the BIG buggers 1/2" long, are far more deadly to your bees than fire ants and will kill a hive within days if you don't catch them in the act. They eat all the brood and the hive gets robbed out.


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## Scrapfe (Jul 25, 2008)

$Simpleman76 said:


> I am needing to control fire ants... I have been reading... Damascus earth ... any ideas


I guess damascus earth would kill a fire ant but I don't know how well it will control the fire ant population, (aka) fire ant hill.
http://www.extension.org/pages/16007/living-it-up-in-a-fire-ant-nest:-tunnels
Fire ants forage over a wide area, by establishing a network of tunnels and underground path ways to forage from. They can pop up anywhere or everywhere. This decreases the ants' exposure to predicators and the elements, and I would expect this tunnel building behavior to also protect fire ants from damascus earth. 

Until the queen ant is dead any human attempt to control fire ants looks like a Keystone Cops movie.


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## summer1052 (Oct 21, 2007)

Diatomaceous earth is not very effective against Fire ants, I'm afraid. I use Amdro granules. Keeps the ants in check, and the granules are too big for the bees to carry. I use them directly on the hills. I also set the legs of my hive stands in trays with the granules. It's the only thing I've found that works. The ants ignored both oil and water to get into the hives.

Good luck!

Summer


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## GAnewbee (Apr 7, 2011)

I have a hive that sits on 2 cinder blocks and the blocks sit on 6 paving stones. I liberally coated the paving stones with vasoline the other day. It slowed them down but didn't stop them. I'm thinking about using some kind of cheap brake grease or something like that to really coat it if it isn't going to be harmful to the bees. Any thoughts? I'm pleased to hear that commercial ant poison won't kill harm the bees. I will be getting some of that too.


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## Arkansas Beekeeper (May 23, 2010)

I switched to Styrofoam tops. Fire ants were nesting between wood and metal cover. Amdro granules use to work but I cant find them in AR.


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## USCBeeMan (Feb 7, 2009)

Perma-Guard sells a Fire Ant killer/control product using DE. It has some other ingrediants in it that will make the ants move faster. The faster they move the quicker the DE laserates them so that they die. DE will also absorb the wax on insects with exoskeletons killing them by dehydration (along with other ways).

I am a Perma-Guard distributor. Go out to www.perma-guard.com and read up on DE and the different products for controlling insects. 

If DE is drenched into the ground (by man or rain) it still is effective. It doesn't dissolve, go away or loose any of it's properties.


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## summer1052 (Oct 21, 2007)

DE did absolutely NOTHING for me. They strolled through it without even slowing down. Vaseline, Tanglefoot, water, motor oil, et al, will not stop them, if they want in. They can and will walk over the backs of their dead brothers (sisters?) to get to the hive. And they can take down a full, strong hive in under 7 days. 

Ask me how I know THAT? :doh::no::waiting:

DE works for some. But that, cinnamon, oil, water, I wouldn't count on it. There are very few chemical I don't think twice about using. And very few I use at ALL, for any reason. But the Fire ant granules are on that very short list. 

Make sure that there are no tall stems of grass that can lean over and touch the stands, or legs, of your hive. All they need is ONE stem, and you can hear the marching . . .

There are three circles in Hell, contrary to Dante. One circle ruled by Fire ants, one by wax moths, and one by SHB! The AHB rule Purgatory. 

GL, 
Summer


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## GAnewbee (Apr 7, 2011)

What would you suggest? I knew these demons were going to be a problem before I started. I just figured there was a good way to keep them out.


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## USCBeeMan (Feb 7, 2009)

Some people have their hives raised with 4 "Legs". Each leg is in a container of oil. Seems like some even use motor oii. Do a search.

Before moving to TN I was from SC. Saw and observed a lot of fire ants. Summer is correct about them walking over their dead to reach something they want.

The only insecticide that truly ever worked was banned in the late 70s or early 80s. Mirex. Problem was that any run off of Mirex was deadly to fish and other living things in creeks, ponds, etc.


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## summer1052 (Oct 21, 2007)

I have the hives on a hive stand with 4 legs. The legs sit in pie pan trays with Fire ant granules. The ants won't cross it, if it rains, it's still effective, and the bees ignore it. Use the granules on any hills within 50 feet of the hive. If you are careful, you'll create a "bubble" around the hives that keeps it down. At least they can't FLY into the hive like WM! 

GL

Summer


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## Hambone (Mar 17, 2008)

Can of hairspray and a lighter.


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## Scrapfe (Jul 25, 2008)

Quoting Derek "Can of hairspray and a lighter"

Derek, a "real" Texan gave me his solution to fire ant control. Anytime he found a fire ant hill he would drink 1/2 a case of Lone Star Beer and recycle the beer on the ant hill. This didn't do a thing to control fire ants but it did make him feel better about having them on his property.


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## Hambone (Mar 17, 2008)

p.s. I do love me some Lone Star Beer!


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## davel (Jan 29, 2011)

I smeared grease on the legs of my hive stand and it stopped the ant intrusion. Buy the cheapest water resistant/waterproof grease you can find and smear it on liberally.
The ants won't cross it and if they try they get stuck! It's stickier than Vasoline...that didn't work.
I've had it on for over a month now and it's still working. Only used half a tube and the tube cost less than $3. It's the tube that goes on a grease gun. Used a stick and wiped it on!
Good luck!


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## Scrapfe (Jul 25, 2008)

davel said:


> ... the tube that goes on a grease gun...


Get the 400cc tube that is marked "For Farm Equipment." That type is more water resistant that the rest.


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## summer1052 (Oct 21, 2007)

When I tried grease the ants just walked over the backs of their dead and stuck friends. But if it works for you . . .

I'm too picky to drink Lone Star, but I have LOTS of Shiner . . . it's only 20 miles away from me.

Texas Fiddler Frolics this weekend! Fiddlin', dancin' and beer! 

Summer


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## Scrapfe (Jul 25, 2008)

Yea, they do that here too. I discovered 50 years ago that nothing controls fire ants like something that controls fire ants. Trying to hand cuff them, putting them in leg irons, or dressing them in little bitty stright jackets just doesn't work for long. But as long as people insist on throwing their money away, I want them to get their moneys worth. (duh) :scratch:

But hey, if the Shiner brewery is only 35 clicks away.... why we could make that on George Jones' riding mower, and still have time to hoist a few to the demise of the fire ant. I'm riding SHOTGUN!

Oh, and if your believe "if your gona play in Texas you gotta have a fiddle in the band," then bee sure to check out The Old Time Tennessee Valley Fiddlers Convention in Athens, Alabama this October. Our local bee org will have a booth there.


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## summer1052 (Oct 21, 2007)

Scrapfe, we can take the Craftsman lawn tractor, or we can take the Kubota. Your call. 

Sum


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## Scrapfe (Jul 25, 2008)

summer1052 said:


> ...the Craftsman... tractor, or ...the Kubota. Your call.


I always say, "Buy American first!"... where're Sears and Roebuck tractors made now... ,anyway? :scratch: :lpf:


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## Hambone (Mar 17, 2008)

Scrapfe said:


> Oh, and if your believe "if your gona play in Texas you gotta have a fiddle in the band," then bee sure to check out The Old Time Tennessee Valley Fiddlers Convention in Athens, Alabama this October. Our local bee org will have a booth there.


Club Trio - Mingus, TX. has a band that plays every now and then that has 2 fiddle players in the band!


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## challenger (May 27, 2009)

Go online and get a product called "termedore". My spelling might be wrong. I cannot get it in any store in NC. The product is Fipronil or something like that-same chemical as front-line flea & tick control. I was told it is a bait and will get to the queen. I've used it for the large roaches (water bugs) and it is gold. Also used it for fire ants and it worked like a charm. Personally I would have no problem using this as a tool to get rid of fire ants around the hive. It will also take care of hive beetle larvae. I would make sure the hive are at least 12-14" above the ground and do the drench when the bees are in for the night so vapors don't rise.
JMOHO


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## Apiator (Apr 8, 2011)

You Southerners might be appalled at the waste of your favorite food... but dumping a bunch of dry grits around an anthill will take their numbers down. They eat them, swell up, and explode.

I've also had some luck with aspartame, aka Sweet'n'Low. I don't think I'd use it around bees though, unless I was sure they wouldn't touch it. Kills ants for sure... and FDA approved for your soda pop! :scratch:


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## Scrapfe (Jul 25, 2008)

Apiator said:


> You Southerners might be appalled at the waste of your favorite food... but dumping a bunch of dry grits around an anthill will take their numbers down. They eat them, swell up, and explode....


Sure they do.  A few decades ago urban myth believers attempted to pass laws against throwing rice at weddings. The urban reasoning being the rice swelled up in the crops of song birds who ate it, producing a horrible death. 

The truth is bird crops are designed to re-hydrate dried seeds and grain and then hand off this food to the bird's gizzard, where it is further PROCESSED. BTW, isn't the phrase "rural myth" an oxymoron?

Ok, now for the rest of the story. Fire ants are carnivorous. If you think they eat veggies or tofu, have I got a surprise for you. Come visit me and my fire ants one weekend this summer. Wear only sandals, and shorts, no socks allowed. Unless you have two wooden legs, if you can stand in a fire ant hill of my choosing for 15 minutes quietly and without moving I will buy you a case of beer. *NO Derek*, sit down! This offer isn't for you! :lpf:

Up into the early 70s the USDA kept fire ant numbers in check by distributed fire ant bait in the form of ground corn impregnated with fats laced with an insecticide. The animal fats make the bait attractive to fire ants. The oil soaked corn carried the insecticide to the ground without a plumb of spray drifting everywhere and killing bees. The forging worker ants carried the bacon flavored bait to the mound where it was fed to all the ants, including the queen, killing the whole shebang. This worked well. So there is a grain of tr... excuse me, a grit of truth to this urban myth.

IN the early 70s I went with my father, a WWII B17 crew chief and his first grand child, my first daughter, to see one of pop's old aircraft. At the time the Flying Fort was on the ground being refueled and re-armed with ground corn ant bait to drop on fire ants.


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## Apiator (Apr 8, 2011)

Scrapfe said:


> Come visit me and my fire ants one weekend this summer. Wear only sandals, and shorts, no socks allowed. Unless you have two wooden legs, if you can stand in a fire ant hill of my choosing for 15 minutes quietly and without moving I will buy you a case of beer.


Ya know, I think I'll pass, as much fun as that sounds! That ranks right up there with the offer to stick my arm in a feed auger.

I will admit my mistake, thinking about it... I just have your garden variety red ants. They have a mean bite, but they aren't fire ants. Don't think we have too many of those here.

Just be glad we don't have army ants!


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## Scrapfe (Jul 25, 2008)

LOL Don't blame you. I think I would stick my arm in the feed auger to get some relief from the fire ants.


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## USCBeeMan (Feb 7, 2009)

I now live in TN but came from SC where fireants have been around for decades with some mounds as high as 2 or 3 feet or as wide as 5 feet. I spent unknow amounts of hours watching these pests. 

I take issue with using grits to kill fireants. Do they like it, yes. Does it work, never did for me.

Fireants are unlike any ant I have ever been around: 

They are everywhere foraging all of the time and have a great sense of "smell". You cannot leave your birds on the ground during a dove shoot. Within minutes of dropping your first bagged bird it will be covered with fireants. 

I have killed them only to watch them bring out the dead and pile them up in little indentions in the ground near the entrances like massive open graves. 

I have washed them with water trying to drown them out of a flower pot only to see them come up and gather together to float away as a group.

I have given them grits to only see them bring the grits back out and pile it up outside the entrance rejecting the grits. Now perhaps it killed some of the ants and they realized the cause and removed the grits. Hence, it didn't work.

I have piled up grits in my yard where I had a lot of mounds. Each mound is a different colony and are not friendly towards each other. Came back a short time later to find fireants from everywhere getting grits. After an hour or so I came back to find ants from each colonly removing the grits from my original dump site to many smaller piles of grits. Each of these piles then had ants that would take the grits back to their home colony, hence no fighting among the colonies for the grits. I wish I had pictures of that. It was uncanny that they could figure out how to get the grits w/o fighting!!!!

Once a fireant mound is created the ants will return to that same mound even if it is destroyed and chemicals were used. It might be weeks or months later but another colony will return and use what's underground. Kind of like bee swarms. It's not uncommon for other bees swarms to come to the same tree/location as a resting spot. Even a year later.


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## Growing Boy (Jan 28, 2009)

A shovel and 5000 degrees works pretty well. Not much left after that.


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## Scrapfe (Jul 25, 2008)

The imported red fire ant first arrived at the port of Mobile in 1930. In the 1950s I watched as the fire ant followed my family North into the Tennessee Valley. In 1958 the agriculture teacher at my new Tennessee Valley high school one day asked me if I was from South Alabama. I told him, "I am." He took me and the rest of the class 100 yards down the road where someone had reported a strange new ant hill protruding from the top of the road bank. When we arrived, a half dozen or so farmers were already there. Some were rolling homemade smokes, their tobacco sacks dangling from strings clinched tightly between their teeth, others were sadly shaking their heads from side to side. Teacher asked me if I knew what kind of ant hill that was. I answered, "Them there's fire ‘aints’ Teacher!" Teach and the farmers knew they were fire ants, they were just hoping that I could lift the fire ant scourge from their heads like a biblical prophet removes leprosy. The imported red fire ant had arrived in the Tennessee Valley. 

Every time I recollect that day I regret that the movie "Scar Face" had not yet been filmed. It would have been the perfect opportunity for me to use Tony Montana’s famous line "… Say hello to my little friend!" Because whatever else they may be, red fire ants are an assault weapon. Thanks mostly to the efforts of the government, for the next 20 years red fire ants were confined to the lower or deep South. Then during the 1970s the fire ants' allies in Washington, the anti chemical crowd, halted USDA control efforts and by 1990 fire ants were again poised to invade the Tennessee Valley. It so reminds me of the spread of mites or hive beetles that sometimes it makes me want to cry. 

Like USCBeeMan said, the fire ant will re-colonize previous locations. What first attracts a young fire ant queen to a new location however is bare Earth, and there is plenty of bare earth where other fire ant mounds previously were. However, mowing highway right of ways is in my opinion the number one thing that opens up new territory to fire ant colonization. Think about the large batwing mowers scalping the landscape. A single fire ant mound, it's foraging tunnels, and sally ports can easily cover an acre or more. The longest single fire ant tunnel ever measured was almost 140 feet long. You can quickly see why water on the scale of a bucket, a barrel or a garden hose has so little effect. At least one or more of their main tunnels goes down to the permanent water table, making fire ants almost drought as well as flood proof. 

Fire ants don't like people monkeying with their mounds any more than people long enjoy monkeying with fire ant hills. If you disturb it, fire ants may move the mound over night, sometimes a whole 20 feet. This can be a Pyrrhic victory for the homeowner. The ants may relocate the mound to your home’s foundation, door steps, in front of your mail box or to your wife‘s rose garden. At any rate I think any disturbance only energizes the colony and opens up new foraging territory to them. So by knocking down the mound you are only helping one the ant colony overcome another. At any rate a large fire ant mound long in place can stop a two row farm tractor like running it into a fire hydrant.

Until fire ants get things settled between themselves, there may be 100 or more mounds per acre. Along some road ways 3 or 4 mounds, each 18 inches tall, inside a 1,000 square foot area is common. I like to think of fire ants as the Vikings of the insect world. Not only are fire ants great explorers, and colonizers, but they seem to enjoy raiding and fighting their neighbors too. The end result is that one fire ant colony will eventually seize and hold all the territory that one colony has the manpower and moxy to seize and hold. They sound a little like people don't they? 

The only good thing I can say about fire ants is that they are great destroyers of small hive beetle larva. However, before you start penning, “Ode to the Fire Ant,” remember shb can fly 5 miles one way each and every day. So fire ants likely provide little benefit to any one beekeeper.


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## Scrapfe (Jul 25, 2008)

Growing Boy said:


> A shove... works pretty well...


Your a better man than I am Growing Boy.


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## summer1052 (Oct 21, 2007)

I have groundhogs around, too. I notice the fire ants like to set up shop in the hills the groundhogs work up for them.

No doubt about it, they are pernicious, evil creatures of dubious parentage. :shhhh:

Some folks claim that taking a shovel full of dirt and ants from one mound and switching it with a shovel full from another mound will make them destroy the 2 mounds themselves.  I don't know, I haven't tried it. But it's an interesting theory.

Yes, the really are unlike other ants. No, they don't like grits or rice, etc. Bare toes, feet and ankles are good. One other upside to the FA: The chigger population has been drastically reduced, along with copperheads. And yes, they do clean out SHB and WM larvae really well. But it's not enough to redeem them.

Yankees, I won't claim to know how bad a New England winter is, if you won't claim to know how bad fire ants are. 

Could we send the FA to Iraq, or somewhere, and use them like a weapon of mass destruction? If we'd had the FA when WT Sherman Marched, he wouldn't have bothered with us!

Summer


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## Live Oak (Oct 11, 2008)

Not the most eco friendly but soaking the ant mound with Orthene works like a champ. They NEVER come back to the to the mound. Just be very careful spraying it around your bee hives. 

http://www.acehardwaresuperstore.co...age.tpl/product_id/44399/category_id/867.html


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## Growing Boy (Jan 28, 2009)

It's a constant battle.
We've found landscape maintenance works wonders.
When we moved back here my wifes 300 some antique roses had been badly neglected.
We set upon a 2 year landscape renovation project. Weeding, cutting, burning. Laying landscape fabric, drip irrigation and 5 to 8 inches of cyprus mulch. The ants won't build underneath the mulch but if an open spot shows up they are there in a heart beat. my 4 hives are scattered around the property so the girls flight pattern doesn't interfere with most daily activities or yard chores.
all except one are in heavily mulched areas and I have no ant problems with them.
One that I set up in a little paved area between our shop and greenhouse had a little parade going on the other day. I followed it back to the origion and flooded it with a couple of gallons of Talstar.
We shall see. To us it's just another landscape maintenance chore. Right now I have a dozen fire ant bites on my foot. I was out mowing our road ditch in flip flops and stood in one place just a bit too long. I never learn.


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## Scrapfe (Jul 25, 2008)

Growing Boy said:


> It's a constant battle... Right now I have a dozen fire ant bites on my foot...


Not a lot you can do with an ant that bites, chews, and gnaws on one end and stabs and stings at the other.


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## jim314 (Feb 12, 2011)

summer1052 said:


> Some folks claim that taking a shovel full of dirt and ants from one mound and switching it with a shovel full from another mound will make them destroy the 2 mounds themselves.  I don't know, I haven't tried it. But it's an interesting theory.
> 
> I don't have a shovel with a long enough handle to try that
> 
> Summer


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## Scrapfe (Jul 25, 2008)

summer1052 said:


> I have groundhogs around, too...


Now I know I'm coming out there. :banana: Nothing like a fat Bar-Bee-Qed groundhog (or three) and a tub of ice cold beer on a hot July day. Yumm.


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## noljohn (Jan 9, 2013)

I use Tallstar in my out yards. I use a a little push spreader and it last for 2-3 months. I put down about 3-4 foot barrier all around my hives. I also use it in my yard, I have to apply 3-4 times a year but no fire ants. It's the only thing that I have found that really works. I live in South Georgia we have some fire ants here.


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## Earthboy (May 16, 2007)

$Simpleman76 said:


> I am needing to control fire ants in my garden with applying anything that will be harmful to the bees that I am about to install in my new hive. I have been reading and the diemascus earth seems to be the best thing so far, any ideas


Fire ants do not pose, so far, any issue in my yard, but these tiny ants often use the space above the inner cover to lay eggs like in these pics:

https://www.facebook.com/YSKHoney

When they accidentally fall inside the hive, one can hear an alarming buzz from the bees. But the ants are harmless.

Earthboy


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