# Anyone Check for Mite Biting?



## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

I tried, but my microscope is not good enough.
And I realized, that ants damage them too.

So a sign of bees getting rid of mites could be the amount of mites on the floor.

One of my co-workers has a colony which just now has 60 mites a day on the floor board. They should be crashing or show some virus but they thrive.
It´s the second time he had such a situation, the first time the floor was inches covered with mites, the hive survived, but barely. It was not the same hive.

Normally he treats such a hive but he was in hospital and they were left behind for months. The actual hive he wants to leave alone to see what happens. The neighbor hive got many of this mites too by drifting, but now numbers go backwards.


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

> I tried, but my microscope is not good enough.


What type of microscope were you using, Sibylle?


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## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

This:
http://www.dnt.de/index.php?dir=produkte/details/52144


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## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

Jeff, please update how your mite check works.
I would want to buy a better microscope. What´s yours?

I really believe the mite biting should be propagated. It´s a much better trait than VSH, which only fights the symptoms and could come too late to prevent virus impact.


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00L...1495980711&sr=1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65

Before you laugh too hard at my choice, read the reviews.  I haven't received it yet, so we will see.

If I can make any determination either way, I'll update.


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## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

Thanks.

You never know....


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

So I got my scope yesterday. I set up a section of fanfold insulation under one of the SBB I still have to see what I found. I set it up under one of my more populous hives that has been queenless for close to a month by now, so I knew the phoretic population should be high. Here's what I saw out of the 3 mites I found, one of which was crawling around. I set the insert up from 1:00 PM-4:00 PM today









The white stuff you see circled was coming from the mite's carapace. It appears to have been "bleeding." This mite was still wriggling, but appeared injured.









An attempt at showing where the white stuff was coming from the carapace.









This one was much more promising as far as potential signs. This mite is missing appendages.

Not sure what this means quite yet. The photos don't really do what I was seeing justice. I basically held my phone lens up against the lens to take the pictures. From what little I've seen, which isn't much, could be promising. 

For anyone interested, I'll keep updating with what I find.


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

A better picture of the mite with missing appendages. I wasn't happy with the quality of the above picture. Definitive mite damage and a clearer picture of what I was seeing.


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## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

Hey Jeff, thanks for sharing!
That´s really wonderful, I must copy this.


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## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

I´m not sure but is the white stuff a male mite or a young one?


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

The best I can describe it, it was originating from either a front leg or the carapace. It was a milky white, the consistency of perhaps egg yolk by the looks of it. It appeared to be coming out of the mite. The mite was slowly moving it's legs, on it's back. It appeared as if it were dying.


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## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

Fascinating.
Once again, thanks for sharing!
Please update!


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## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

The appendages look like being bitten off.
Your scope is much better than mine, let´s see if I can order it.


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## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

I ordered it today 

I like to see the mites in this state even if they are our friends....


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

Cool. Look forward to hearing what you find.


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## Juhani Lunden (Oct 3, 2013)

Nordak said:


> Cool. Look forward to hearing what you find.


http://www.voralpenhonig.at/varroa3.gif

Here is a foto from Alois Wallners pages. 

Since ants eat mites I think it might be important to ensure that there are no ants on hive bottoms before making any studies.


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

Very true, Juhani. That was my thinking on the limited time frame I left the board in. Less time for ants to find it. I didn't find any signs of ants, but can't entirely rule it out. Most ant behavior I've seen they carry their food with them back to the mound. I'll perhaps look at a way to ant proof the test.

That's amazing detail on the link. Thanks.


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## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

I tried to cover the board with sunflower oil paper but realized that on hot days the fumes disturb the bees.

A friend told me to use baking soda around the rims of the board but this kills the ants and I´m rather a friend of all insects.

I think there will be one or two mites left to look at


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## Juhani Lunden (Oct 3, 2013)

SiWolKe said:


> I think there will be one or two mites left to look at


What if the ants make the damage to mites legs?


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## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

Do you know how Alois tests this, Juhani?

I´m with Nordak, thinking the ants take away the mites into their nests but so far I saw only pollen taken away by ants.

Well, I could test this with the garden colony I have, they are on a stand. But they are not tf and not resistant in any way.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

These days I'm lucky to even find a single mite in the hives. I've taken the mite cap broods removal too far to
allow any mites to take a foot hold. In one way I'm happy for the thriving colonies in another I'm sad seeing the
mites gradually going away as I have plenty more mite experiment to be done. Once you have the resistant bees they
are here to stay when mixed in with the local bee population. Vsh alone will not be enough but once they are mixed in with
the allogrooming and mite biting bees then the mites are really in big trouble. I have 4 Cordovan resistant queens coming this Wednesday to
further carry out the mite testing experiment. Time to go back to the elder Russian beekeeper asking for some non-mite resistant queens in exchange for the mite resistant ones I have now. Poor man been trying all these years asking for help in whatever method he can to get rid of his mite problem without any success.


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## Juhani Lunden (Oct 3, 2013)

SiWolKe said:


> Do you know how Alois tests this, Juhani?


No I don´t

maybe here something

Literaturnachweis: 
Buch "VARROARESISTENT" 1994 von Alois Wallner auch in englisch und italienisch 
Buch "IMKERN HEUTE" 1990 von Alois Wallner


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## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

Hey Jeff, this scope is amazing!

I even believe I have found a daughter mite with bitten feet but I was not able to make a pict.
How do you do this?
I have to try with my smartphone, my camera is not able to focus.


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

Hey Sibylle,

I've never tried on a normal camera, but on my smart phone I just use the lens of the camera and hold it over the lens of the scope. You have to hold it as close to the lens as possible. It's sort of tricky. I use both hands to stabilize it while holding it over the lens. You'll see light coming over the viewing screen on your phone when you are over the scope lens. You'll have to adjust from there to get the image in focus. Hope this helps.


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## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

OK first try.


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## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

And more


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## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

One more









I need to practise more.


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## R_V (Aug 20, 2016)

Nordak said:


> The best I can describe it, it was originating from either a front leg or the carapace. It was a milky white, the consistency of perhaps egg yolk by the looks of it. It appeared to be coming out of the mite. The mite was slowly moving it's legs, on it's back. It appeared as if it were dying.


as I understand it, mites don't have a coagulant in their blood so they will bleed out if a leg is bitten off.

I bought a less than $100 microscope at hobby lobby a few years back. it has a usb camera and a battery powered light source and I think it goes up to X1000.


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

The first photo and last photo look like mite chewing to me. 

The rest are hard to tell. Try to get them all on their backs as in the first picture and it will give you a better picture of what you're looking at. 

I wonder if Erik Osterlund would take a look? 



> as I understand it, mites don't have a coagulant in their blood so they will bleed out if a leg is bitten off.


Yeah, I'm not sure what the substance was. It appeared to be originating from the mite. That was my best guess. Thanks.


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## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

Nordak said:


> The first photo and last photo look like mite chewing to me.
> 
> The rest are hard to tell. Try to get them all on their backs as in the first picture and it will give you a better picture of what you're looking at.
> 
> I wonder if Erik Osterlund would take a look?


I tried not to damage them by turning them around. Just brushed them off the board and searched.
I think those which look like the legs are cut off like with scissors are bitten. 
I´m with you, first and last, but the third, too are bitten for sure.

The picts are from the AMM descendants. 

Some shortened legs have the look of the milky stuff at the ends.

I will make more tries and send some picts to Erik. I´m still exchanging e-mails with him. He would be fascinated, I believe.

Thanks again, Jeff,for opening this thread. I can´t imagine why there are so few people being interested in checking this.

How do you plan to journal?


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

Hey Sibylle,

I've found you can take a piece of paper, tear off the corner and use that as a "scoop" to flip the mites over with no damage. Just be subtle in your movements and you shouldn't damage them any more than they potentially already are.

In regard to the "why" more people aren't checking, I'm not certain. My guess is, based on my own experience and that of the couple of pictures you have posted, this may not be as rare of a trait as it seems. 

I've taken to chronicling it on the TF forum as I didn't want to maintain both posts...basically, I'm lazy.  This is my way of keeping the journal of it I suppose.


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## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

Thanks, Jeff, yes, good idea.

It´s a rare trait, I´m sure. Alois Wallner needed 20 years to have colonies which do the mite biting to such extent they survive varroa infestation. Remember, my bees are tf for some years, they have to fight for themselves. I´m not helping with treatments. I don´t know how successful they are that´s why I want to journal this too.
A co-worker saw that with his bees too, he is tf for 3 years now.

I don´t think the bees develop this kind of behavior if they don´t need it for survival. IMHO.
Comparing the defense behavior of my treated colony to the untreated there is a big difference in behavior, even if the bees come from the same bee yard and likely have some genes from tf drones.

Yes I saw your posts. I don´t want to use your thread there to talk about my experience, as it is yours , so now I will use my thread here.

By the way, Erik is very interested and wants me to take records of the elgons. This I will do.
I monitor with counting, taking samples of brood cells and looking for mite biting and he thinks it just perfect.


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

I look forward to following your progress!


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Now you have it to isolate the queen that has this trait to propagate more queens and bees. Solved the question of which queen to choose to make more daughter queens. Using the drones from this hive to do the I.I. process will speed up this mite biting continue traits. The Russians are known to have this traits to battle against the mites. Now the Italians and carnis also have it here using the I.I. process. Since the bee breeders already made their progress so far, I simply take advantage of this by incorporating these queens into my local apiary call it compatible bees. These queens are a bit expensive too. At least the traits are stabilized. If you can make your own I.I. gadget cheap then things will really speed up significantly. In a season 4 to 5 generation of daughters can be propagated, conservatively. Soon you will have the resistant bees!


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## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

Thanks, Jeff, I´m always enjoying what you post about your observations,
I linked your picts and u-tube video into our forum.

Beepro
know what?
Nobody tested here if tf bees change their attitudes themselves after some time without treatments and being survivors. All those theories but no real observations under normal natural circumstances ( I mean under normal environmental circumstances, not being isolated for example).



> At least the traits are stabilized.


How do you know? There are many voices saying this changes in another locale and with local drones around. 

Who knows if bees just develop this trait being kept in a more natural way without all this unnatural managements we use to propagate traits which maybe the bees would have being left alone.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Dups!


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

We are facing a mite situation that are more aggressive than the other strains here. I can only buy the queens that the
sellers claimed that have worked in their local area against the mites and that they do not treat. You are correct, many only
claimed but cannot verified that their queens are mite resistant. Come to my apiary I will test these queens to the max with
heavily mites loaded hives to see their claims. The survivors I will propagate them. Our of 6 queen sellers tested only 1 is withstanding so far. That is why I still have bees to keep this season after those unnatural torturing last year. This is a test. It is only a test to see their resistant traits whether or not they can still live up to the reputation. This is call using the unnatural to test the natural that I will eventually let the bees do their natural things. To get to that level first I have to sacrifice a lot. And can only rely on what the seller of the queens claimed to be at their local level. You are trying to established the local bees by tackling the local environment. I'm trying to established the local with other claimed compatible genetics. I'm trying to speed things up a bit at the micro level so that the resistant traits can be established faster. If one round of queens made in a season then it will take me much longer to get to the results that I wanted--mite resistant here. In the shortest amount of time and unnatural strategy used, I try to get them here faster. Only time will tell whether this is working for as long as I have the bees to keep I'm a happy beekeeper. In the end we are trying to accomplish the same thing only going about it on different methods. I'm pushing my strategy at whatever cost be it a natural or unnatural way. Because in different locality things are a bit different in term of how we handle the bees. After the mite crashed hives 3 years ago, if I'm still using the same natural strategy that does not work here then there will be no more bees left for me to keep today. Whatever works for me may not work for other areas because my local bee environment and mites are a lot aggressive. My bee model is very simple. Compatible traits, testing for resistant both natural and unnatural, propagate from the success, evaluation at all level, proper adjustment/improvement, releasing to the natural way, and then repeat the process.


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## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

> This is call using the unnatural to test the natural that I will eventually let the bees do their natural things.


I admit I´m doing the same, using more resistant stock, not as thoroughly as you because of my lack of experience.

I wish you success and the development of traits which stay in your bee yards forever.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Yes, after they become natural they can fend for themselves. That day will come sooner than expected here. To make it more simple, I bought queens from beekeepers who have done it already. I'm simply bringing the resistant stocks to my local area by maintaining their presence. Because I've been doing it for 4 years already, I know how to manipulate the bees set up to take advantage of the four seasons. Each season will have a different bee issue to tackle from making the summer queens to beating the mites both me and the bees are at it. Making the summer queens is a bit tricky but can be done during a summer dearth too. At the same time to keep the mites population down with the brood break manipulation. One hive in a little bee experiment went almost 2 months (without any LWs issue) without any cap broods just the young nurse bees added from another clean hive. This clean hive don't have many mites in it. I will use this populous hive for the cells finisher later on. To take a short cut for more queen cells success, I also use the nicot laying cage system this season. Now that I have a taste of success, I can make as many QCs can I can with 600 brown cell cups that I bought. Along with it the small fridge converted to a QC incubator will be use. Out of 10 cells, from the 1st day capped cells, first trial run, 6 made it out. So yes, not all are natural as can be. The future of beekeeping will be like a science while improving on the methods used to further speed up the experimental process leading back to a natural way of beekeeping. Think of it as a circle that eventually everything will be complete/connected at the other end. In between it doesn't matter because it is still a work in progress leading back to a more natural way later on.


Nicot eggs success:


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## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

Hey Beepro, do you ever check for mite biting?
This is Nordak`s mite biting thread, and I think we should talk about mite biting here.

How about some picts of bitten mites?
We are the mite biting bee trait enthusiasts.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Right now I don't see that many free running mites in my hives at each hatch cycle. Somehow 
the bees got rid of those already. There are still a small amount of mites inside the mite bee bomb nuc hive.
I'm saving to see if I can find some mite biting there later on when the newly bought resistant queens got their
broods going. There are plenty of new eggs laid already so next month at hatch time we will see. It is sad to see
the mites going away. If I don't see any biting mites then somehow the resistant mechanism is working inside my hives. I
will try to find some mites with bitten legs to show when possible in the future. Wish me luck!


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## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

And what kind of resistant mechanism would that be?

hygienic behavior?
suppressed mite reproduction?
mite biting?


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

You got me there. I really cannot find out because the mite population is hard to 
find inside the hive now. Since I use allogrooming and vsh bees before with the open
mated local queens I grafted, these will be a big part in making the resistant bees here. The new
queens I just bought the sellers claimed that they can withstand the mites. I really do not know if they
are the mite biting bees or other special resistant characteristics they have against the mites. I would say they
are the vsh since most of the bees sold have a high hygienic trait built in. I was just as happy to find compatible
bees with some resistant ability that the sellers claimed as the waiting list is really long. The bee lab also use Italians vsh bees for
the I.I. process to produce these queens initially. Then the queens are shipped to various queen producers for further evaluation and propagation using the I.I. process. If they are the mite biting bees then I will find out from putting the infected bees and cap broods from the mite bee bomb nuc hive although the mite level in there is getting lower everyday now. How to carry out this biting experiment later on I cannot decide at this moment if no more mites to find. Time will tell if they have this traits or not. If they do then I will put it under a scope to post some pics with the legs bitten off. And if they do not then I will get some biting/mauling queens too since they are compatible bees with mine though not as peach looking yellow color. When my I.I. gadget is done I can mixed these mite fighting bees to see the 3 different traits all working together.


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## Clayton Huestis (Jan 6, 2013)

Beepro be careful what you bring in brought in some supposed 12 year tf stock. They were dead by mid August and the queens were installed around June 1st. I was pretty disappointed. Was terrible to watch the PMS and dwv but was too late to save them. Haven't had such susceptible bees in years never thought to check them early on. Adding drones from such stock can be a little set back.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

hi clayton. i'm guessing you are pretty much finished up for the year and your hives are set for wintering.

how was your 2017 season?


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## Clayton Huestis (Jan 6, 2013)

SP season was decent. Gotta pull feeders soon just finishing up. Trying out new wintering config with bees in a deep and shallow arrangement. Decided to breed carniolan stock exclusively. Just really like carnies these days. Think I got my bear issues under control this year too.


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## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

Hi Clayton, did you ever check for mite biting?

Do you do alcohol washes now deciding which to treat and which to select from or have you just started all over by treating all for the time being?
How many treatments do they need?The one OAV in winter time?

As I told you in the pm it would be great to have another one posting here who chose the IPM path to be tf or tf again.

Why do you like the carniolans? What´s different to other races?
I hope you are patient with all my questions 
Sibylle


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## Clayton Huestis (Jan 6, 2013)

> did you ever check for mite biting?


Not as of yet. But in the plans at some point. To me biting/ mauling is better than hygienic or vsh trait. These seem to deal with mites after they've done there thing, biting kills them at all times.



> Do you do alcohol washes now deciding which to treat and which to select from or have you just started all over by treating all for the time being?


Last year only treated a few hives. This year treated all hives 2 applications of oav. No alcohol wash this year just treated them. I may have given up Lusby's methods of TF, but by no means have I given up TF altogether. I don't mess with my bees when its cold. My only concern at that point is food stores and mouse protection. I won't be wrapping hives either.



> great to have another one posting here who chose the IPM path to be tf or tf again.


Will try my best. As of a year ago my wife and I own and operate a deli which takes up like 100 hrs a week. I'm free to work bees on Mondays these days. I get to work on graft and nuc making days just barely. Gotta be 2 months ahead of bees at all times with plans. I do beesource on my downtime at work which is why I more quite these days. Plus the older I get, year after year with bees I realize I don't know half as much as when I was a newbie 



> Why do you like the carniolans?


A few different reasons. I like darker type bees. They winter on very little stores which is why I plan on going with a deep and shallow lang box. They explode at the right time for my area and don't jump the gun. The make the nicest white comb honey of all the bees I have tried. Most new beekeepers here run Italian bees when I see lots of yellow bees poping up in sub families of my new queens I have to wonder if my TF efforts have been compromised with allot of out side drones. So color will play some part in queen selection of course performance will always win but proper carnie traits will be looked at vs eat themselves to death traits. Winter is no joke here and only bees that can make it will be allowed so no pampering. I would chose buckfast as a runner up but like I said carnies have always been my favorite.


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## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

Many thanks for answering and good luck to you.
This is very interesting.


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## Clayton Huestis (Jan 6, 2013)

As for mite biting this is how I plan to proceed. In June / July when both bee and mite populations both should be high: test colonies using plastic trays with waxed paper. Place trays in colonies for 2 hr duration. Work bee yard as needed during this time avoiding smoke use. Do this for one day a week over three week span. Identify colonies colonies that have zero biting going on. Move these to a different yard. If very few biters might be easier to move those to a new yard do what works for you.  From among the biting colonies keep good records on production. Choose breeders from the best biters and producers. Mark these colonies and give them the winter test. See which have good spring clusters. So here are 4 points:

1. Biting
2. Production
3. Can winter
4. Strong spring clusters

Don't be afraid to treat until biting trait can be breed for and intensified. This is a rough plan on how to get the ball rolling.


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## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

Clayton Huestis said:


> As for mite biting this is how I plan to proceed. In June / July when both bee and mite populations both should be high: test colonies using plastic trays with waxed paper. Place trays in colonies for 2 hr duration. * Work bee yard as needed during this time avoiding smoke use.* Do this for one day a week over three week span. Identify colonies colonies that have zero biting going on. Move these to a different yard. If very few biters might be easier to move those to a new yard do what works for you. From among the biting colonies *keep good records on production*. Choose breeders from the best biters and producers. Mark these colonies and give them the winter test. See which have good spring clusters. So here are 4 points:
> 
> 1. Biting
> 2. Production
> ...


Why no smoke? Does it stop grooming?
Brood increase or honey production? or both? 

If you treat will it stop the behavior because the bees are disturbed? ( Maybe not if you treat in winter brood brake).


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## Clayton Huestis (Jan 6, 2013)

Smoke interferes with bees behavior. We only have a 2 hr window for the test. Want to keep there behavior as natural as possible, yet bee work needs to get done in a working apiary also.

Season 1 main goal is to separate biters from non-biters. We can't expect the biting trait to be good enough to survive TF at this point. Just find the best colonies with biting traits. The best we have to work with from our existing stocks. If no such bees exist in our apiary we need to bring such stock in if the trait isn't there. Next year we graft from the best and re-queen the non biter colonies that we moved away. Of course we requeen any colony that needs it and cull poor performers as normal since we are a working apiary. Treating is to keep alive colonies that show the trait we want but are not expressing it yet at a level to be TF. After a few season we should see some good progress on biters and pull the plug on treatments so that reality will put proper pressure on the bees to survive. At some point we can add vsh blood to compliment the trait. Or possible select bees with some virus resistance or nosema resistance or what ever the need is. At all times trying to maintain a working apiary.


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## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

Wasn´t there someone who said you need 100-1000 hives for that selection ( randy?) 

Still, this is attractive and the monitoring I will do for sure.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

excellent post clay. looking forward to hearing about your experience, many thanks for keeping us posted.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

nordak, we haven't hear much from you lately. hope all is well with you and yours.


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## Clayton Huestis (Jan 6, 2013)

If a statement like that stops you then you never get anything done. Just remember working apiary that produces honey, bees, queens, wax, propolis, ect. You start with what you have and work your way up. You have to know what your dealing with your own bees before you can go forward. For example if none of them bite how can you breed biters? Got to be grounded in reality and make sure you have what is needed.


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## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

You never know what your 10+ - hives will tell you. You´re exactly right Clayton, who knows what´s going on without looking for it. 

Squarepeg,
Jeff ( nordak) visits college and has no time for posting just now, I believe. I try to keep contact with him through mail. 
I hope he will post again in forums because his opinions and knowledge is of high value to me.
He is well.

We could keep alive this thread. The mite biting trait seems to much much better than the VSH, which fights the symptoms only.


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

squarepeg said:


> nordak, we haven't hear much from you lately. hope all is well with you and yours.


Hey SP, 

I'm still around. Lost a couple of hives to SHB earlier this year from not having time to inspect like I should. They failed to requeen and I didn't get to them in time. Very swarmy year here due to my not staying on top of things. Going into Winter with 7 hives and 4 nucs. I'm pretty pleased with that having given/sold a number of bees and queens this year. As always, time and equipment will be the challenge for 2018. I made a number of observations especially in terms of SHB defensive behavior that I witnessed this year and will be focusing attention on rearing queens from those hives next year. Hope you are well!


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

excellent jeff! yes all is very well here. it was a perfect year for nectar with another record (for me) honey harvest. many thanks for the update.


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

squarepeg said:


> excellent jeff! yes all is very well here. it was a perfect year for nectar with another record (for me) honey harvest. many thanks for the update.


Awesome! Congratulations on the record! 

I'll try to drop in more often and update as I have time. I've neglected my bees a little too much this year, but they seem to be going strong. I practiced "bee having" a little too much this year.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

Nordak said:


> I practiced "bee having" a little too much this year.



up to a point that can be the best thing to do.

mine have been doing much better now that i've learned to stay out of their way.

having a yard of bees with another year on them is good progress in my book, way to go jeff.

how many winters has your longest lived colony?


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

I've got 2 that have gone through 3 winters. Not the original queens at this point, but daughters. I lost one of my 3 original hives this year. Hoping the 2 can get through 2018. They are two of the strongest hives it appears so I think the odds are with them.


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

Get through 2017 I mean. Optimistic about it.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

Nordak said:


> I've got 2 that have gone through 3 winters... Hoping the 2 can get through 2018. They are two of the strongest hives it appears so I think the odds are with them.


:thumbsup:


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

I was fortunate enough to get a couple queens from Nordak last year. Lost one overwinter due to lack of forage most likely as we had a long warm fall and most of the bees at that yard ate up all their stores w/o me having time to check on them. The other overwintered at my house and I moved to probably my best urban location when the nuc there was discovered queenless early spring and combining was a good option as Nordak's queen was a little light on bees not having much time to build up the year before since I got them pretty late. They seemed to struggle a little but Nordak told me they're kind of late bloomers so I left them alone for the most part as they always seemed to have a good brood pattern etc... but just seemed a little slow at building up and the nectar flow this year was kind of later than usual. I finally had time to check on them a few weeks ago to wrap up their season. I have two production hives there, both headed by local swarms which I suspect came from the same hive, one from 2016 and the other was this year's move in. The older swarm barely eeked by last winter (mites), but both hives were double deeps and two meds, chalk full of bees during peak season. I typically leave this location untreated just due to time constraints, and although I do like the bees that moved in it's one of my good test areas as the forage is good and it lets me really look at any possibility of local resistance under good conditions. I found the two production hives were collapsing, but still a decent population. The 2016 swarm had a virgin queen running around, I was hopeful she could get mated, but of course, inspection day was the last day we had in the 80-90's as we're now in the 60's with clouds and chances of rain every few days since the inspection. The other hive had some cells started with what little viable larvae they had left so I'm doubting they'll make it, but I'll probably drop a nuc in what's left to save them. On the other hand, the nuc with Nordak's queen looked very nice. I didn't remove any frames as I didn't want to disturb them and they had stores all settled in but I got a nice top picture. I'm assuming from the population they were doing alright. This nuc has a telescoping and inner cover btw.

http://www.beesource.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=36412&d=1510609561

Production hive before adding a medium on one of our 110 degree summer evenings....

http://www.beesource.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=36411&d=1510609561


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Nordak
Thanks for the update.
gww


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## Cloverdale (Mar 26, 2012)

“For anyone interested, I'll keep updating with what I find.”

Yes! I am very interested in this; I was wondering if a jewelers loupe would work. Thanks, this is good info. Deb


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

Cloverdale said:


> “For anyone interested, I'll keep updating with what I find.”
> 
> Yes! I am very interested in this; I was wondering if a jewelers loupe would work. Thanks, this is good info. Deb


one of the people that got them in our club was tape to pick them up of the sticky boards and look and see if they had been chewed on, haven't heard how they looked, but early on they were seeing a % that had been chewed


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

Cloverdale said:


> ?For anyone interested, I'll keep updating with what I find.?
> 
> Yes! I am very interested in this; I was wondering if a jewelers loupe would work. Thanks, this is good info. Deb


I think a jewelers loupe would work well as long as you had sufficient lighting. 

I plan on doing more testing next year, so I'll update when time allows. Thanks for your interest, and hopefully you will report your findings.


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## wcarpenter (May 24, 2016)

We have developed a mite biting bee that I call the Martha Queen after my wife. I am told that there are posts about how good they are but I can not seem to find them. My website is carpentersapiaries.com Weare sold out at this time and am only taking orders on a stand by option. William Carpenter


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## R_V (Aug 20, 2016)

carpentersapiaries has been mentioned in almost 30 threads but have 2 that were specifically about Carpenters apiaries.

http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...enter-s-Apiaries&highlight=carpentersapiaries

http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...ters-mite-biters&highlight=carpentersapiaries

What is your general delivery schedule?


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## heaflaw (Feb 26, 2007)

My experience: I bought 6 queens from Carpenter Apiaries late last spring. I traded out 3 of them to my beekeeping buddies. The 3 that I kept are still doing great this spring. I hope I can order more this year.


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## Cyberman (Aug 23, 2016)

Nordak said:


> I am curious if anyone on the forum has attempted to examine mites from their colonies for signs of potential mite biting traits. I have bought myself a cheap pocket microscope, 60x-120x power, which should be more than sufficient to check for signs. I was wondering if there are certain protocols that need to be followed or is observation of missing limbs, etc. enough to make such a determination? I essentially just want to satisfy my curiosity either way.


The way to check for mite kill is to use a bottom board that will accept a pan with a 1/8 inch hardwire cloth cover, in which is placed a piece of freezer paper sprayed with cooking spray. Pull the pan after a few hours during the day. (Do not leave over night as the bees clean more at night and the pan will have too much debris) Look through the droppings for mites. Then put mites found under a 30x glass and look for mites that have been pinched or legs pulled off and killed during the grooming process, count the number pinched compare to the number not pinched and killed. Only use queens for breeders that have a 75% or more pinched rate.


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