# USDA announcement



## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

http://www.argusleader.com/article/20091125/UPDATES/91125008

How on earth does one document a CCD loss; this should be real interesting.


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## redbee (Dec 29, 2005)

I talked to my FSA man and he could not give me an answer,deadline is Dec.10 for all paperwork to be in their office.Lots of facts and figures to get together before then, and I'm in Texas and papers are in SD even if I had what they wanted.


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

The Emergency Livestock Assistance Program ( ELAP ) info sheet says: 

"Colony Collapse Disorder
Applicant must provide documentation of physical losses due to (ccd). This documentation must come from a registered entomologist, Co-op Extension specialist, Land Grant University or similar credible source."

Sounds like they want third party independent corroboration. You must also have been insured under NAP to be eligible. They are also saying that the bees must be replaced, you can't go out of business. The December 10 deadline is for losses incurred in 2008. Sounds like the local county committee will make decisions regarding eligibility.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

So these "credible sources" are going to confirm something that as yet has no definitive test to diagnose? This may be well intentioned but I know how these types of programs tend to play out in real life. It always seems to depend on where the claim is filed and how persistant and audacious the filer is. We started this year with all new queens (as we always do) and by fall our numbers had dropped nearly 20%, is that normal attrition or is that CCD? Guess I will have to ask someone credible.


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

Obviously they have no idea how honest beekeepers are. The probability for fraud is just about zero, don't you think?


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## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

Good luck to ya' collecting. After you get the will and strength to jump through all their hoops they hit you with 20 more. You will be chasing your tail in circles and by the time your head is done spinning, well, you know the rest. The gov. programs are well run to insure that those that should get the money never do but they(gov) can say the program was there and its not their fault you don't/can't qualify. Did your inspector find mites? Yes, well than that was your problem not theirs. If your boxes are empty how can you prove you had bees in there. Just because you have a reciept for 300 queens doesn't prove you used them yourself. Been jumping the hoops myself and getting nowhere. Now its time for cash only sales-how can they prove I sold it!!!


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Tom G. Laury said:


> Obviously they have no idea how honest beekeepers are.


lol...


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Besides covering CCD losses...if you can get an "expert" to sign off on your claim...

The farm bill also covers emergency feed...emergency due to adverse weather conditions. In my case, with less than half a honey crop and 30,000+ lbs of syrup fed...I'd gladly take what they give me. Without it, I might pay my bills this winter, but I'll have zero left to start up next spring. And the way I see it, I've been assessed tens of thousands of dollars over the years by the NHB. I've seen nothing in return from them. A little help when I need it would be ok with me.

About filing a claim...yes, you have to have been enrolled in the NAP program. Not many are, as no one knew. Talk to your local agent. You need to write a letter covering why you aren't enrolled in NAP. They now realize their mistake in not informing anyone about NAP. Looks like they will let us sign up after the face...but you have to get that letter written and to your local office.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Michael Palmer said:


> I've been assessed tens of thousands of dollars over the years by the NHB. I've seen nothing in return from them. .


I'll drink to that.


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## Reed Honey (Mar 3, 2005)

If you have been a commercial beekeeper for less than 10 years you still can get the payment without having nap, just a Gov loop hole for new farmers


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## Skinner Apiaries (Sep 1, 2009)

Yea but how to prove that? Frames of drawn comb with no bees? I froze and put alot of that comb back on hives, and those hives arent deadouts (yet)... I mean... I either put it back on or melt it down..


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

It's not what you know, but who you know. Dr. Mussen at UC Davis has certified one of his friends' losses for the last two years as entirely due to ccd. This was based on conversations at various meetings, purely anecdotal and long after the fact. Never even actually looked at the empty equipment, counted it or anything. Ka ching ka ching! Meanwhile with everyone else they want certification from SOMEONE but they can't tell you who to go to to get it.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

This program is not just for Beekeepers. It includes fish farms and beef cattle producers. Which is probably where most of the pay outs will go, beef cattle. There is 50 million dollars in the pot. And the more folks that make claims, the lower your payout percentage will be. 

Understanding this program may be just as hard as other current legislation now in Congress. If anyone gets a substantial payment let me know. You can take me to lunch.

Who is available to verify the CCD kill? Nic Calderone of Cornell? Or my local county extension entymologist? Does my interstate transport document from SC verify the number of colonies that I had at the start of the season?

This could be a good service that NYS Apiary Inspection could provide NYS beekeepers. They could come out to our yards in the spring and count the live colonies and then come back after the loss and verify the dead colonies and why they died. Ya never know.


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## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

Has anyone personally here had payment recieved from this program yet? I spent another long hour with my local USDA agent and got nowhere. For furture reference document everything you do- All queens used, splits made, did you have a dead out and make a split into them from another hive in the same yard using a swarm cell, did you use a small split(nuc) to fill a empty spot. Everytime you have dead hives get someone qualified(entemoligist, apiary inspector) to document the loss. This is just for the colony loss.

For honey lost to weather you need to have the crop insured prior to filing(even if you were not aware that this was available). You need 4 yrs production proof to give a baseline. If not they will start you with 50% of the production yield for your state that is determined by the state. After that they will only pay out for losses less than 50% of the average(yours or theirs).

Example: you start out new with no proof of production

Your state has a 100lbs average per hive honey production

They will start you out with a 50 lbs. average

You need to have less than a 25 lbs. average before you are eligible for any payment on crop loss

So you need to make less than 25% of your states average crop before you become eligible for any compensation.

Even with the little amount that you will get compensated for you are better off using that time trying to get it by getting another job!


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## F&D (Aug 21, 2009)

I went to our local office to fill out the application. They were not very helpful at all. Is the deadline on Dec for losses in 2008 or 2009? Does anyone have a completed form they could put online to help us fill them out? I'm ready to give up on filling out the forms. We had a lost this fall of over 50%. I need some help.
Thanks


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

F&D said:


> I went to our local office to fill out the application. They were not very helpful at all. I need some help.
> Thanks


To qualify, you have to join NAP. For 2008 and 2009, you're too late. The gov't is, I believe, going to allow us to sign up after the fact. You have to write a letter to the local office...goes to state dorector, to the state committee, and finally to Washington. You have top tell them why you need the help, and why you never signed up for NAP. The most common answer is that you didn't know. There is a provision in the law for under-notification. Get that letter in right away.

To join NAP for 2010, the deadline was December 1. Again...if you missed it, you'll need to write that letter. Signing up isn't difficult...$250. Locate all your yards on their lansat maps. Give them production records, feed records, and yard counts.

To make a claim for 2008-2009, the deadline is December 12. I just finished my production and feed records, and yard counts since 2002. Now I have to work on all the forms. I'll let you know in a couple days when I've read through them, and got my questions answered by the local FSA office.

We had a considerable loss here, too. Average crop over 8 years is 105. This year, 41. Feed average over 8 years is $2109. This year is $10667.

At least the bees are healthy and the yards are nearly full again.


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## Missoura (Feb 12, 2009)

I looked into the issue and felt not worth the hassle. Big brother wants very precise information on your operation including sales.
If the government really wanted to help beekeepers they would have went back to the start of CCD and paid commercial beekeepers for their documented CCD losses.
At least for the cost of replacing bees in the hives. 
Instead they want to start now when most beekeepers have good bees.
They jumped on Dave Hackenbergs bees and named CCD. Dave has receipts for I think around 400,000 replacement cost. Looks like the place to start .
One of these days the commercial beeks will be gone and the cookbooks will be like;
100 ways to make delicious meals from wind pollinated corn & wheat.


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## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

Missoura said:


> I looked into the issue and felt not worth the hassle. Big brother wants very precise information on your operation including sales.
> QUOTE]
> 
> The precise info on your operation they want isn't the problem. It's the precise info not dealing with the operation they wants that's the problem. Even after you would/could recieve the little help it appears they will pay out and your business still fails and you need to file bankruptcy they know to much.


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