# Warm Winter... Good or Bad?



## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

Warm winters mean more rapid consumption of
stores, and imply that one wants to feed, feed,
feed to make up for all that useless flying
about that the bees will do, or the wandering
about the hive, socializing.

Heft those hives!
When in doubt, feed 'em!


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

This coming week looks like a good oportunity to put some syrup to em... Wed - Sat. The temps will be high enough for them to break cluster and move around inside the hive. Could be our last shot for a while if the high temperatures drop back to normal at the end of the week. I'll be feeding mine too, they've been way too active for December-January.


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## BerkeyDavid (Jan 29, 2004)

Please explain to me the logic that warmer temps mean more consumption of stores.

The conventional wisdom I have read states that the further north you are the more stores you need to overwinter. That would seem to imply that bees consume less when it's warm.

Yes my bees are flying around a lot more. I don't know if they are pooping, robbing, gathering protein from some source (cattails?) or all of the above.

But seems like they are smart enough not to waste energy if it didn't pay them back.

Let's assume that they just stayed in the hive when the temp went up. OK, at this point they will not be consuming as much stores as if it were colder because they don't need to generate as much heat.

So logically it seems to me that they ought to consume less in this "heat wave." And that they will only go flying around if there is some payback.

Yes temps in the next week will be above 50 a couple of days. Crazy! But if the bees need more than the 80 pounds of stores I left on the hives then let them die, I don't want those bees as survivors. Especially if they can't make it through this mild of a winter! 

So I ain't feedin' 'em! At least not until late Feb.


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## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

David

I think the idea is it causes them to start raising brood which uses lots of resources

Dave


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Living in Northern Vermont, We see this strange weather from time to time. Way more unusual here, than farhter south. In the last few years, it seems to be happening more. 

And someone always asks will the bees eat more? Yes, probably a little more. 

Is this warm weather ok for the bees?
I think it's great! Bees can take cleansinf flights, and rearange the honey around the nest.

But, watch out in the spring if thisd weather keeps up. The bees that went into the winter will be there in the early spring, when brood rearing starts. Those large wintering clusters will raise lots of brood, and that's where starvation will happen. 

If you prepared your colony properly in the fall, they should be ok until the early spring checkup.


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## BerkeyDavid (Jan 29, 2004)

Dave and Michael - Thanks, good points.

Is there any evidence that they start raising brood earlier based on the temps? I thought it was the maple pollen that triggered the brood raising.


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

This is a topic that has fascinated me as a first year beek. I'm hoping that this coming weekend will be warm enough to get a good look inside. Last week, all the bees were way up top, but the hive still felt pretty heavy. If the weather is warm enough, I plan on taking a look at the stores and adding dry sugar on the top frames if necessary. I don't have a previous season to base anything on so the more you all post, the more I learn!


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I thought it was the maple pollen that triggered the brood raising.

The longer days (after the solstice) seem to trigger SOME brood rearing. The early pollen coming in seems to set it into high gear. Neither are directly related to the temperatures.


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## Oldbee (Sep 25, 2006)

"I can't figure this out". Well,neither can I, and I hope some of the "experts" on this site can clear it up. I went out to my hives and put an ear to them. They were a little "quiet". 45 degrees.[Maybe they are all dead]. I remember a day when it was really cold last year and I listened to the hives and they were making quite a Humm!! I haven't seen too many birds around my feeders this winter. When it gets a little cold though, they seem to come around more. Who started this "philosophy" that bees eat up more stores when it may get warm in the "winter"? Is there some kind of scientific proof for it?


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

>Is there any evidence that they start raising brood earlier based on the temps?

Actually, I believe one theory states that in mid-winter, as the temps drop, the cluster gets tighter. This increases the core temp of the brood nest, and initiates the beginnings of brood rearing. At that point, the bees are using pollen stored the summer/Fall before that is sealed in the honey stores.

>I went out to my hives and put an ear to them. They were a little "quiet". 45 degrees.[Maybe they are all dead]. I remember a day when it was really cold last year and I listened to the hives and they were making quite a Humm!!

I would expect that to be the case. Bees make heat by shivering, and moving their wing muscles. They have to generate more heat when it is cold, and so I expect they would be louder.

Quiet clusters are a good thing.


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

The "philosophy" is very very true. Ask anyone who keeps bees in the SouthEastern U.S. There are two countering effects involved.

1. Where winters are longer, the bees have to stay inside longer and need more honey to survive until a nectarflow occurs. This is why northern beekeepers should leave 60 to 75 pounds of winter stores.

2. Where winter is relatively short, the bees may only go a few months without a nectar flow. In my area of North Alabama, 45 to 60 pounds of winter stores is recommended.

The catch 22 to the above is that warmer temps further north may induce the bees to start brood rearing too early. This consumes huge amounts of stores and can put the colony in a position of being chained to their brood so they don't move to honey nearby to feed. A cold snap wipes them out. There is also an effect that too early brood rearing results in colonies that are excessively strong so early in the season that swarming is pandemic. Other negative effects can occur such as a colony using up all available winter stores before a nectarflow.

Darrel Jones


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## shuali (Dec 31, 2006)

I would like to hear more about warm-weather beekeeping, as I am a New England resident now living in a Mediterrenean climate.

Winter here is more like a protracted version of what we used to call spring in Connecticut - daytime temps in the mid-50s (F), dipping into the mid-high 40s at night and after chilly rains. Around Jan-Feb we get some real cold snaps, but no real killing frost.

Just this past week I saw bees and yellow jackets working lavender blossoms and other evergreen shrubs in a neighbor's front yard.

We have a long dry summer - no rain from May/June through Sept/Oct most years, and daytime temps up in the 80s or higher. Unirrigated areas turn brown.

So - how do you manage bees in this climate?


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## alex (Feb 12, 2005)

to shuali in israel there is all year u can have honey flow but u have to protect them from hornets. they're attacking bees. put groung beef or fish with poison on the top of the covers so they will pick up the meat, not the bees. i was keeping bees in the 1950's in galil.
alex


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## Finman (Nov 5, 2004)

Hi from Finland. 

>>This is why northern beekeepers should leave 60 to 75 pounds of winter stores.>>

I use on average 40 kg pounds from September to May. That 60 pound happens if hives are uninsulated. I have had those bodies. 25% of sugar are used during store prosessing in September.

Bees start here some brood rearing during winter rest. But it is not much.Something 4 inches wide. It's meaning is to keep fresh nursers bees, I suppose. 

When cleansing flight is in March, they continue winter rest because snow covers the ground.

Bees may really start brood rearing when snow is away and they get water. They need good pollen stores in the hive. If they do not have pollen or water, they stop brood rearing. Carniolan is able to early start because it has good pollen stores, and usually Italians consumes them all in autumn.

Why to worry about food consumption? - I don't. They consume just what they need. 

HERE warm winters are always better than cold ones. 

What happens during long spring is one question. Just flying temperetures invite bees to look for food, and if clouds go in front of sun, 50% of bees may disapear before willow starts to bloom. That is why many keeps their hives in chellars up to willow blooming.

You may have brilliant colonies after winter here, but they all die before end of May when new bees are present. Ealier I wondered why there is no use for big colonies. 

No I feed with pollen patty and give extra heat with terrarium heaters and I have seen that bigger colonies are able to huge spring build up. So they consume pollen and sugar as much as they raise new bees. 

If they have not pollen, they are obliged to stop brood feeding. 

Beekeepers cannot understand why to heat and feed the best hives. - Because they react much more better than small ones. From big hives I get real advantage and I may help small colonies with emerging bee frames.

I am not worried about food consumtion before cleansing fligt. It will be enough because I fed them enough. During spring I even the store frames of hives. Extra sugar I need to give very seldom. If bees come out during snow they have nosema or something. The warm wether is not a reason.

Colonies which are very silent during winter, their spring build up is the best.
.


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## David Stewart (Jan 22, 2005)

As to using more stores in warm weather, given that you have X gallons of fuel on board will your automobile run longer sitting in the driveway at a high idle 1000 rpm (heat generation) or traveling down the highway at that same rpm (flying looking for pollen/nectar)?
A quick cleansing flight is good, traveling around searching for non existent pollen/nectar is not. Different story if you get some pollen coming in because then there is a return on that expensive flight investment. That is perhaps one of the reasons Southern beekeeps can get by with lighter stores, warmer climate means an increased likelyhood that they will be able to gather something useful while they are out as there is more likely to be something in bloom (as indicated by the posters here noting bees bringing in some pollen). Thoughts?

David


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

>>Colonies which are very silent during winter, their spring build up is the best.
<<

Hmmmm....I wondered about this as well. Maybe I'm going deaf but I tried the old "knocking on the hive" routine a couple of weeks ago and barely heard anything. But there were a bunch of bees when I popped the outer cover off. Maybe I was listening too low.

Are bees opportunistic when it comes to consumption? In other words, do they take advantage of warmer weather to move around the hive and consume stores even if they don't "have to"? I've read about hives where the bees have died because they didn't break cluster to retrieve food that was stored elsewhere and in short reach. But do bees sometimes go the other way and consume too much...too early... while it's warm like this, leaving them short in the spring?


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## Finman (Nov 5, 2004)

<<Are bees opportunistic when it comes to consumption?>>

Bee are saving all the time. But different bees stock have different styles. I bought Elgon bees. Part of their blood is from Kenya from Elgon mountains.

It is not so deep in winter sleep as Italian. It wakes up early in spring and accelarate faster brooding than Italians. It does not care if it is good or bad weather. It plays rich all the time. That is why it's spring build up is fast. It collect huge volume of pollen and it succeed in it's spring build up.

Some put stop in brooding even in summer and that is bad thing.

So it depens, do you like play with natural system or with tech system.


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## Finman (Nov 5, 2004)

<<A quick cleansing flight is good, traveling around searching for non existent pollen/nectar is not.>>

When I have cleansing flight, there is only snow in nature. Bees do nothing outside.

When alder begin to bloom, bees fly even if it is very cold. They fly with aid of sunshine. This is the most dangerous time to colony. They just drop into shade onto snow and die off.

Here is alder: Alnus incana. Mostly bees are not able to gather pollen from alder because of cold.
http://www.tiersittinghattersheim.de/Alnus_incana_02.jpg


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Cold weather sometimes brings about situations you have no control over. Warm weather allows you to feed, manipulate, and in my opinion, take care of the bees better. If they need feed I would rather do it in 55 degree weather, than 25 degrees.

I keep thinking that we are loving it now, but about the first of April, when I would like to do some grafting, we will have about a foot of snow on the ground.


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## Finman (Nov 5, 2004)

<<Cold weather sometimes brings about situations you have no control over. >>

Sure it does. But he does not play who is afraid. 

2 springs ago I had 3 weeks brood in hives. Then it came cold week in the end of April and bees got no water otside. They destoyed all open brood. It means that there was 10 days gap of emerging bees which should forage dandelion honey 6 weeks later. 

That kind of gap has inluence to the end of June.

WHAT I MEAN: Winter losses are normally less than losses in spring build up. That is why I do not cry for winter.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Finman, I'm talking the difference between a warm winter and a cold winter. You want to talk about winter versus spring. They are two different discussions.

And I have no clue what your comment "but he does not play who is afraid" when it comes to this discussion.


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## Finman (Nov 5, 2004)

>>Finman, I'm talking the difference between a warm winter and a cold winter.<<

Sorry, I cannot se difference in that matter.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

>"but he does not play who is afraid"



How about..."Nothing ventured, nothing gained."


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Finman, then why are you commenting?

Its obvious to me that seasonal changes out of the "norm" may bring about needed or additional steps. Its that way with much in farming. To suggest that there is only one set of guidelines, one "set in stone" appraoch to beekeepeing, in my opinion, is failing to manage, adapt, and do what may be needed in a changing enviroment.

Finamn, to suggest that you do things one way is fine, you have that right, Unfortunately, you go beyond that right, and suggest that others are not doing it "your way". If it works for you fine, but how about respecting others opinions, and perhaps even acknowledge that everyone can not keep bees as some beekeeper from finland.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

MP, I understood the comment. My comment said something along the lines of, I don't understand how this cliche saying made sense in regards to the subject at hand.


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## Hobie (Jun 1, 2006)

Does anyone in this Forum NOT feed their bees?

But if you do feed sugar water this time of year, what is the proper ratio? I'd think you'd want to use 2:1 to minimize the bees' labor evaporating the stuff?

[ January 02, 2007, 10:17 AM: Message edited by: Hobie ]


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## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

Hobie -

I don't feed my hobby bees. I used to. Then I quit. If I felt that one of my colonies wouldn't survive without some feeding, I would give them some sugar syrup.

For the most part, beekeepers feed their bees because they (the 'keepers) take too much honey for the bees to overwinter on what they have left. Honey is more valuable than sugar syrup; economically, beekeepers profit by taking the expensive honey and replacing it with less expensive sugar syrup. Since I don't sell much if any honey, I just take what I feel the bees can afford to lose.

I tend to leave more honey on the hives than many of the others responding here. I like to leave 90 to 100 pounds of honey on each hive for overwintering. If the bees don't use it, I can always take it in the spring.

The bees here seem to use less honey over "mild" winters than over "cold" winters. Of course, even our "mild" winters rarely get warm enough for the bees to break cluster. This winter, so far, has been mild, but high temperatures still rarely break freezing.


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## sierrabees (Jul 7, 2006)

Every year is different and I believe that management this time of year needs to be adjusted to the changes. We are also having exceptionally warm weather this year and I take advantage of the warm days to move the honey stores closer to the cluster, putting empty comb above and to the outside. I believe this reduces the likeyhood that when we get the late Jan and Feb cold they will have to break cluster to get to food. I have feeders in all my hives but the bees are not very interested in the feed so I think they are getting a little bit of feed outside.


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## BerkeyDavid (Jan 29, 2004)

I feed very little. Usually only packages or nucs I am trying to build up. My friend Bob says I don't feed enough. But I prefer to leave more honey on the hive than he does. I figure it is a better feed for them. ALthough honey is more expensive than syrup, if you figure your labor and everything I am not so sure. And I am not convinced that syrup is just as good for the bees as their own honey. Sorry if this is not PC.

I did use pollen patties last year and it did seem to be of value. I plan to do that again this year.


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## Hillside (Jul 12, 2004)

I've been away for a while. Nice to see that you're all still here.

I think this question depends on what you mean by warm. Up here, we've been having a very warm winter. Today, it was in the upper thirties. That's very warm by local standards, but that doesn't mean the bees are especially active. In my climate, I expect the bees are using less feed than normal.

We'll see if they need a lot of feed for brood rearing when spring comes.

In other parts of the country, a warm winter may mean something very different.


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## naturebee (Dec 25, 2004)

--Does anyone in this Forum NOT feed their bees?

I do not feed my bees, so I can better select for true performance.

I may however ocasionally shift stores around if needed during Mid winter to early spring.


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## Barry Digman (May 21, 2003)

<Does anyone in this Forum NOT feed their bees?>

I don't feed, but like others I leave a lot of honey on in the fall. Is there a difference in feeding practices between those who manage for honey and those who don't need to harvest much honey?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Compairing a warm vs cold winter losses, I always vote on warm winters causing more losses than cold. 
Short warm snapps arnt going to change much, but its the prolonged mid winter into early spring mild breaks, that catch the colonies off guard when a cold late winter cold snap sets in. The hives will have all the feed they need, but just cant access it due to tight clustering around brood. 
One of the two things I find that helps manage this situation is winter packing, well its the reason why I pack. It allows a looser cluster, and better access of stores. 
The other is indoor wintering,


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## Finman (Nov 5, 2004)

However BjornBee banned me to use spring or autumn words, this is free web and I use.

Our bee winter start in September and stops at the end of April. During this time they use winter sugar and it is enough. I do not worry.

Warm winter is very relative issue on globe.

Oct to Nov there is no snow but bees cannot fly out
Dec to March snow covers ground.
April and there is no pollen outside.

Our autumn and spring is like winter in Texas or southern countries. That is why I speak about our spring. Dandelion blooms in Texas in January. We have dandelion at the beginning of June.

I have seen in forums that southern area beekeepers have problems whic does not exist in north like in England of Finland. Still they do not want to listen how to play with winter food.

Some do not feed, some feed all the time ...

.


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## Finman (Nov 5, 2004)

.
Ian says that warm winter cause losses. My experience is same if we speak about the wet snow 3 feets or so. When bees are inside wet snow, they get more nosema than in dry cold weather. But if snow is one feet and hives get free air, they survive splended.


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## Hobie (Jun 1, 2006)

"Warm" winter here is 40-50 F during the day and rarely getting below freezing at night. I worry about the plants that have to chill to germinate. Typically at this time of year we have a foot or so of snow, temperatures around 10-20F and my driveway is a veritable glacier. Despite the fact that I have not been getting my daily adrenaline rush from careening down the driveway (with a steep drop-off on the right), I'm not complaining.

It's good to hear that you do not "have" to feed. My intention was to take only minimal honey and let the bees manage on their own. I left as much honey as I could, and uncapped extra frames for them to take back to their stores. I tried to heft the hive last night (3 deeps), and could not budge it, but I'm not Charles Atlas.


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## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

The El Nino effect seems to be the prime mover
behind the warmer temps in the East.

Right up the east coast, we have temps that
are 15 to 20 degrees above "normal" for this
time of year, with some impressive daytime 
highs. This is NOT global warming-related,
we had the same deal 3 or 4 winters ago.

Not to worry... cold weather will arrive,
but by then, the bees may have eaten a large
fraction of their winter stores in all the
"useless" activity during the warm spell.


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## gardenbees (May 8, 2005)

That is what I worry about Jim, that they will have so much brood and not have the bees to cover it when the cold weather does arrive. We still have three good months where we could drop into the teens at night. Theresa.


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## TwT (Aug 5, 2004)

This happened a few years ago, warm weather going into winter and bee's are foraging, raising brood, eating up their store's etc... then when the cold hits and stays a little longer than normal there will be a lot of losed hive's from starvation and a lot of new beekeepers will be scratching there heads wondering why they lose their hives. when weather gets like this I feed, have feeders on hives plus open feeders just to help keep the stores up in case when winter hits and stays longer than normal my bee's will have a better chance... I took most of their honey this year then had a very poor fall flow, guest that's how it works at times, just my 2 cents......

[ January 03, 2007, 03:22 PM: Message edited by: TwT ]


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Finman, you must not get cold winter snaps as we do here in Northern North America. Here the winter patterns can and do change 20or 40 degreeC overnight at times. Sudden drop in temp, and prolong cold is what I am reffering to.( two years ago we had -30 below for three to four weeks straight, hitting -40C for three day time highs!!)
Its not a matter of snow cover or hive prep at that point. Then it all comes down to hive health and vigour that determines the survival of the hives


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## BerkeyDavid (Jan 29, 2004)

> Jim said: This is NOT global warming-related


Gee, thanks Jim! I suppose you have scientific evidence for that statement.


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## shawnwri (Jul 31, 2006)

"The El Nino effect seems to be the prime mover
behind the warmer temps in the East.

Right up the east coast, we have temps that
are 15 to 20 degrees above "normal" for this
time of year, with some impressive daytime 
highs. This is NOT global warming-related,
we had the same deal 3 or 4 winters ago."

Don't forget the North Atlantic Oscillation that seems to be having some effect.


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## Andrew Burnard (Jun 7, 2006)

Well, it just hit 60 deg in Dallas, TX. My bees are out and bringing back pollen, so much for winter.


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## Aspera (Aug 1, 2005)

The warm winter is no joke. I saw a plum tree blooming yesterday, and predictions for weather in the low 30's next week. That can't be good for the local plantlife.


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## Andrew Burnard (Jun 7, 2006)

Yep, and watching the news last night Cherry Blossoms are starting to bloom in Washington.


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## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

>> Jim said: This is NOT global warming-related

> Gee, thanks Jim! I suppose you have scientific 
> evidence for that statement.

Uh, yeah.

The delta is simply too big to be a short-term
result of global warming, and the impact on the
weather is very similar the last few El Nino
events.


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## Troutsqueezer (May 17, 2005)

Weather and global warming are the result of a complex system, not a linear one. Much as bees are part of a complex system. Human predisposition is to treat all systems as linear when they are not. 
With a complex system you can get one result on one day, but the identical interaction the next day may yield a different result. I suspect how the bees react to various weather patterns will never be the same twice because there are factors involved we are not aware of and probably will never be. 
Profound, huh?


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## Ann (Feb 18, 2006)

It got to 64 degrees here today. The girls were all over the front of both hives, almost bearding, like when it's hot out (it is humid out there). I've got a winter hazel that's going to break open soon, too bad, it's my favorite bloom in the spring and we're supposed to get cold this coming week. I don't think this weather is at all good for either the bees or the garden.


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## Hillside (Jul 12, 2004)

> The delta is simply too big to be a short-term
> result of global warming


Global warming related or not, the north circumpolar vortex is contracting. The warm/cold boundry is moving northward, resulting in a situation where I don't have to pull snow off my roof so much anymore. With less snow going down my neck and causing a huge temperature delta on that sensetive skin, I'm happy.

My bees are also happy. They've been able to get out now and then for a cleansing flight. It's kind of like living a few hundred miles farther south.


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

Weather and climate are chaotic systems which by their very nature are sensitive to initial conditions. Another way to say it is that small variations in an initial set of conditions in a system can result in large variations in that system over time. It's what makes the weather so hard to predict. The earth's atmosphere and hence our weather is a non-linear dynamic system. Good luck predicting it.

To say that what we're seeing this winter is "too large" an effect to be attributable to the "small changes" possibly due to global warming is in my opinion, ignoring the reality of the situation- and the impact that even small man-made changes in the earth's atmosphere can have on our weather and climate.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

>Not to worry... cold weather will arrive,
but by then, the bees may have eaten a large
fraction of their winter stores in all the
"useless" activity during the warm spell.

>That is what I worry about

I can only say what I have observed in the past. And, remember, I keep bees in Vermont, not Virginia, or North Carolina.

Last year was another warm winter...in Vermont. Other years have been the same. It seems to me that what bees went into winter...came out of winter. I mean...the cluster that entered the winter was esentially still the same size in March. This allowed the bees to cover more combs with their cluster, and raise more brood. While there certainly was more brood in early spring than most years, I didn't see any increased amount of starving. I do though, leave my colonies heavy as lead in the fall. And I weigh all my colonies and feed light colonies accordingly. 

So, I wouldn't worry if you have prepared your colonies properly. They'll make it to spring, and can then be fed if necessary.


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## Finman (Nov 5, 2004)

.

There is somewhere ´cold winter. Finnish hockey player Teemu Selänne played in Winnibeg and I looked that they had often -40C. Now they have only -11C. Now Selänne skates in California. 

http://www.wunderground.com/global/stations/71852.html

In Anaheim now winter day's tempeterute is 20-24C.
http://www.wunderground.com/US/CA/Anaheim.html
.

In Anchorage Alaska temp is now -18C. In same latitude Helsinki has +1C

http://www.wunderground.com/US/AK/Anchorage.html

.


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

Things that make you go "Hmmmm....."

The other morning I was watching the morning news on TV when they popped up a notice that "The weather is brought to you by McDonalds. I'm lovin it."

This warm weather trend could be due to the emission of record amounts of corporate hot air....


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## Finman (Nov 5, 2004)

<<Things that make you go "Hmmmm.....">>

That is it! We have too every day that some company XXX offers today's weather. - Is it the trade of clean air which make that great happynes come true. Atmosphere is sold out?


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

>Atmosphere is sold out?

Lock, stock, and barrel Finnman. It explains everything,


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## MountainCamp (Apr 12, 2002)

Someone needs to get the Sun onboard with putting a stop to global warming.

www.physicsweb.org/articles/news/7/12/2 

www.space.com/scienceastronomy/sun_output_030320.html 

And while they are at that, they also need to speak with the earth about volcanos, fires, termites and other insects, and decomposition in general, they are producers of green house gases.

www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/greenhouse_data.html

www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/11/061120182053.htm

Climatic cycles have been going on since long before humans were here.

Hell, if it were not for global warming, I would be under a mile of ice from the last Ice Age, or the one before that, or may the one before that one.


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## MountainCamp (Apr 12, 2002)

Now, back to the bees.

I was able to check on all of the girls over the last few days.

They are all doing well.

I will have to post some pictures of them working their way up through the granular sugar, so far this spring.

This weather is not good for working at the mountain as the Skiers are just not coming. The weather has been cold enough to allow for snow making to get trails open, but it is the cold and natural snow that gets everyone sking.

The girls seem to like this weather thou.


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

I am more interested to see what impact the warm weather has on the spring flow! I saw on the news today that the cherry blossoms are out in DC and NYC. I have also noticed that alot of trees around here are ready to bloom. If they open now and then we get cold weather we may not see a spring flow this coming season. Spring might be real hard on our colonies.


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## Finman (Nov 5, 2004)

.
I look Mountaincamps pictures and may I say that I have quite different systems in keeping bees. 

.


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## Aspera (Aug 1, 2005)

Mountaincamp,

Those are some very fine photos that you have their.


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## Aspera (Aug 1, 2005)

My understanding is that this winter is the result of El Nino, a 50 year cycle and a 200 year long global warming trend. Last month an ancient ice shelf broke free because of polar ice cap melting. It was so large that it was recorded as a seismic event. Within our life time a summertime Northwest passage will certainly become a reality (to the dismay of Panamanians)


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

>>Winnibeg and I looked that they had often -40C. Now they have only -11C.

Just you wait Finman, this mild break everyone is "complaining about" is going to end. Then the cold weather will prevail again!!


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## Ann (Feb 18, 2006)

MountainCamp, those pictures are great on your page! And I'm with you on the 'global warming' issue. It's been going on for eons, the cycles of the earth, we're just a speck of time observing. Which is not to take away from the fact that we need to take care of our earth, our planet, our home - but we aren't going to be able to stop 'global' anything!


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

>It's been going on for eons, the cycles of the earth, we're just a speck of time observing.

Sure there have been cycles measured in geologic time. What's different of course is man hasn't been here all that time burning fossil fuels and filling the upper atmosphere with greenhouse gases. Man has been around 10 thousand years or os, but we're really only been seriously polluting the atmosphere in earnest for the last 125 years or so. What's so hard to believe that we're having a significant negative impact on our enviroment? Ever hear of smog? Ever breath it?


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## Janice Lane (Feb 5, 2006)

I would recommend watching or reading "An Inconvenient Truth". Research the data to decide for yourself. I am a science teacher an I definitely believe this is more than a cycle.


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## Ann (Feb 18, 2006)

George said:


> Sure there have been cycles measured in geologic time. What's different of course is man hasn't been here all that time burning fossil fuels and filling the upper atmosphere with greenhouse gases. Man has been around 10 thousand years or os, but we're really only been seriously polluting the atmosphere in earnest for the last 125 years or so. What's so hard to believe that we're having a significant negative impact on our enviroment? Ever hear of smog? Ever breath it?


So you are purposefully ignoring what I said, that we shouldn't be polluting the earth, that we shouldn't be poisoning the planet? I didn't say pollution didn't have an impact on the earth, what I said is that I don't think it has that much of an influence on climatic cycles that are influenced by powers much greater than ours. Don't try to paint me as ignorant, please.

Explain how our man-made influences are affecting the ice caps on Mars. The solar winds have a lot to do with what's going on both there and here on earth, something we don't understand much and haven't studied much. I have studied this, I do read, I make up my own mind, I don't follow along with what they're spoonfeeding the general public. 

I don't buy into the global warming hysteria because I don't think they know what they're talking about. Tying global warming and pollution may pluck at the heartstrings but it isn't going to solve global warming and it draws attention away from the real problem. We should be concentrating on stopping pollution of all forms because it's poisoning us, not because of what Al Gore says.

[ January 07, 2007, 09:20 AM: Message edited by: Ann ]


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## Janice Lane (Feb 5, 2006)

Increasing solar winds could be a factor... but there's not much we can do about that! We can, however, lower CO2 emissions. I don't think there has been a lot of hysteria in the media. Actually, the media has failed to realize the impact of the actions of humankind - mainly because the GE's and GM's of the world pay their bills. The scientific community is in agreement, only "special interest researchers" (and the current administration) have diverged from what's true. I think we have been ignoring the evidence for a long time, and the changes are becoming too profound to ignore.


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## BerkeyDavid (Jan 29, 2004)

Thank you Janice!


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## Aspera (Aug 1, 2005)

The consensus of both atmospheric scientists and their research is that global warming is occurring, and that it is the result of human action. All that CO2 from fossil fuels was sequstered in a cambrium era type climate. We release the CO2 and go back to such a climate in just 6 generations. The problem is, modern biota may not be able to adapt that quickly. Someone else can worry about Mars, but I want my descendents to continue enjoying the ecosystems of earth.

[ January 07, 2007, 12:41 PM: Message edited by: Aspera ]


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

>So you are purposefully ignoring what I said, that we shouldn't be polluting the earth, that we shouldn't be poisoning the planet?

Sorry Ann, for the tone of my message. It's an emotional issue and as such, perhaps we should all try to be a little less sensitive.

>Explain how our man-made influences are affecting the ice caps on Mars.

I don't think they are. I also don't see what's happening on Mars can in any way be compared to, or explain, what's going on here on Earth. Are there celestial, solar-system-wide influences that might be affecting all the planets? Maybe. Probably in fact. The sun has it's own cycles and as the engine that drives life on earth, we're subject to it's energy output. This doesn't convince me that we're not profoundly and adversely affecting life on earth and our climate with the vile and noxious exhalations of our cars, trucks, and power plants, the rape of our forests, and the pollution of our oceans.

Frankly Ann, if we can both get behind the argument that polluting the earth is a bad thing, and I think we can, then we can leave Global Warming out of it.


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## MGBee (May 25, 2004)

OK. Let's assume that there is a crisis called "global warming" and that human activity is the cause of said crisis. What do we humans do about it?

- Stop driving our cars?
- Stop heating or cooling our homes?
- Stop using hot water?
- Stop turning on our electric lights?
- Stop all manufacturing?
- Stop lighting our smokers to work the bees?

- Stop living?

"Everybody talks about the weather, but nobody does anything about it."

Regards,
Miles


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

I think it's time for admin to move this thread to tailgater. Everyone here has their own opinion of global warming, and beekeeping 101 isn't the place to argue it. Yes, argue, as I've seen no real scientific evidence carrying forward toward a definite conclusion.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

Let's see if we can get this back on bees.

I checked one of our winter survivor breeder yards today and they are boiling over with bees. The 3 nucs in the yard look great also. Only one of the 15 hives felt like it would need feeding and the nucs appeared to have been pretty thrifty with food considering the weather. It is notable these were some of the best looking hives going into winter as they were able to bulk up on a large Bamboo flow and did not suffer from the rainy golden rod flow. Bamboo is very slow to crystalize and seems to be good for wintering. It should be noted we winter in singles and some still felt like 35-40 lbs.

At least some good news in the Finger Lakes region. Anyone else done some checking the past few days?

[ January 07, 2007, 03:50 PM: Message edited by: Joel ]


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Can't really say the warm weather has been a bad thing so far. The hives and nucs seem to be maintaining, and it seems like food stores are not being used as much as I would of thought. Perhaps an extended fall season, as sparce as it was, and now even a scattering of flowers, has helped more than we (I) originally thought.


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## Troutsqueezer (May 17, 2005)

>The scientific community is in agreement...

That would be a first, on most any topic.


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## kamerrill (Sep 17, 2003)

Bees look good here in the upper CT river valley. Nucs look great and double deeps look ok too. My buddy up the road has about 60 hives and 30 nucs and he said his are all looking good as well.


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

No matter what the cause of the warm weather, this forum is about bees and boy oh boy, were they flying this weekend. Here in MA., we saw 70+ degree temps on Saturday and I had thousands of bees flying around the hive. Most were orientation flights but some girls were heading off to parts unknown, almost certainly in search of food. I spent about a half hour nearly directly in front of the hive and that sweet "buzz" that they made was never a more welcome sound. 

I opened the hive and checked on things. Stores looked good. Lots and lots of bees. Quite a bit of comb between the frames. Basically, the hive looked tip top!

I'm very grateful to have had the opportunity to peek inside no matter what the cause of the warm weather. Perhaps my enthusiasm will wane as I consider the issues behind the high temperatures, but I'll share my concerns on another forum.


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