# Honeybees Removing Varroa Mites Through Grooming Video



## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

FYI:
Thanks for modern technology!

http://globalswarminghoneybees.blogspot.com/2007/11/honeybees-removing-varroa-mite-through.html

Regards,

Ernie

Lucas Apiaries
( My breeder queens are purchased from Glenn Apiaries and I do have their Russian and VHS stock.)


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Cool video. Did I see that right. Did those bees tear the mites apart after grooming them off?


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## GA-BEE (Jan 20, 2004)

*Fgmo*

That is why I use fog with FGMO regularly. It stimulates the bees to groom.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Or you can save all your time fogging, and incorperate hygenic stock,


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*What does the bees do with the brushed off mite?*

I have looked at that video several times and it appears that the bee is chewing the mite. I just can not see at that angle.
I like the slow motion in the video as it really helps to view the actual grooming.
There is another concept about a grooming dance so that another bee can bite the mite.
Foggers: If you want your lungs to deteriorate use them. The jury is due back in court.

It is time to incorporate modern proven research into your operation and buy at least the SMR stock.
My russian breeder stock is instrumentally inseminated with SMR stock.
Regards,
Ernie
Lucas Apiaries


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

As I was watching, I just could help but think that bee was doing a lot of work trying to take that mite off. Wouldnt it be soo much easier if the others would help!!


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## MapMan (May 24, 2007)

Ian said:


> As I was watching, I just could help but think that bee was doing a lot of work trying to take that mite off. Wouldnt it be soo much easier if the others would help!!


Yes, maybe we should breed bees with longer legs! Sort of like that itch I often get in the middle of my back, and I just can't reach it with my arms.

MM


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## spunky (Nov 14, 2006)

*bees*

Thanks for sharing; after watching that video , you can easily see how the powered sugar dusting would aid the bees in removing mites.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

>>should breed bees with longer legs

Exactly what I was thinking!!


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## ewa_kubala (Feb 19, 2008)

BEES4U said:


> It is time to incorporate modern proven research into your operation and buy at least the SMR stock.
> My russian breeder stock is instrumentally inseminated with SMR stock.
> Regards,
> Ernie
> Lucas Apiaries


I started regressing my bees last year and I'm still looking for my way of doing things right. What is your opinion: is small cell enough to induce the bees to groom and generally co-exist with varroa, or would you recommend SMR / VSH stock? 

I personally tend to distrust instrumental insemination and inbreeding as you can never be sure what negative traits it reinforces alongside the desirable ones. Isn't it better if the bees are local stock, acclimatized to the area? What do you think?

Regards,
Ewa (Poland)


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

>>What is your opinion: is small cell enough to induce the bees to groom and generally co-exist with varroa

Ewa, if I could ask,

is it the "small cell" that is adding the characteristic of grooming,or is it the actual genetics of the bee that inturn demistrates the act of grooming? I might buy the fact of supressed reproduction of the mite due to cell size and what ever, but I dont think I can buy the claim of the cell size inducing the bees to increase groom ing of the mite.


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## Gene Weitzel (Dec 6, 2005)

Ian said:


> As I was watching, I just could help but think that bee was doing a lot of work trying to take that mite off. Wouldnt it be soo much easier if the others would help!!


Ian,

That's known as "allo-grooming" and some bees do it (Apis cerana is one of them, and probably explains part of their resistance to varroa). I have several feral colonies that I have observed allo-grooming, it really is a hoot to watch, the bee that is getting all the grooming attention from her hivemates really gets a through "going over". You can almost hear her complaining "Aw come on gals, enough already!".


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## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

Ian,

I think if you read here enough you can find suggestions from observations in o-hives that SC bees seem to demonstrate high hygienic tendencies
you'll notice I used "suggestions" and "seem" liberally
I'm not aware of any studies suggesting this but there does seem to be some anecdotal evidence of it
I know I've watch the bees in my o-hive (SC) groom mites off each other but I don't have enough experience to say they do it any more than bees on LC comb

but on the subject of hygienic bees, I thought this could be accomplished just from selective breeding
some folks do this test where they kill a patch of brood on a brood comb with liquid nitrogen and then see how much of the dead brood the bees clean up in 24 hours
if they clean it all up you breed from them
no II involved
a little beyond my means but not really that hard to do

Dave


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## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

Gene,

that's interesting
the bees in my o-hive I watched do this were SMRxRussian
so it may have nothing to do with SC in my case

Dave

[edit]check this out

http://www.honeybeeworld.com/misc/hygienic.htm


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

>>I know I've watch the bees in my o-hive (SC) groom mites off each other but I don't have enough experience to say they do it any more than bees on LC comb
>>notice I used "suggestions" and "seem"

So then I guess we could say its a hygenic trait expressing the grooming behaviour rather than the size of cell the bee developed in,
I too have hives that I observed to have a grooming behaviour, and they were raised in regular sized foudation.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*Grooming behavior of Russian bees.*

Here is a web search:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&q=Grooming+behavior+of+Russian+bees

http://www.honeycouncil.ca/users/folder.asp?FolderID=5121

http://www.members.aol.com/queenb95/russian.html

http://www.ars.usda.gov/research/projects/projects.htm?ACCN_NO=407273&fy=2006

http://www.ars.usda.gov/research/projects/projects.htm?ACCN_NO=407273&showpars=true&fy=2004


Varroa destructor:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varroa_destructor

Regards,
Ernie
Lucas Apiaries


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*Genetics of legs.*

FYI:
Here is an example of good genetics:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNvOPN1LoQ4

Ernie
Lucas Apiaries


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## ewa_kubala (Feb 19, 2008)

Ian said:


> is it the "small cell" that is adding the characteristic of grooming,or is it the actual genetics of the bee
> 
> Ian,
> It seems to me to be both... or either. Genetics surely has some bearing, but I also remember reading here about experiments with regressing and then un-regresing the bees. Dennis Murrell also writes about it on his website: http://bwrangler.litarium.com/un-regressed-bees/
> ...


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Kinda reminds me, of my 2 year old boy. He has a bad cold, and caughs every night this week just before going to sleep. My wife told him rubbing Vics on his feet before bed would make his caugh better. So we did every night for a few nights, it didnt help his caugh as far as I could gather, but my little boy requested his feet to be rubbed with Vics, because he figured it helped.

If it seemed to help him, I guess it worked,


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## Gene Weitzel (Dec 6, 2005)

I am just thinking out loud here but, it seems to me that maybe SC bees being slightly smaller might be more successful at reaching the mite on its back with its legs without help from its hivemates as apposed to LC bees. In LC bees with hygienic traits, the help that the bees get from their hivemates may help to equalize this disadvantage. Another possibility is that some of the advantage of hygienic bees may be morphometric (ie slightly longer legs to reach the mites). As I said I am just thinking out loud here, I don't have any data to back any of this up with.


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## ewa_kubala (Feb 19, 2008)

Ian, that's your subjective opinion, could you quote any studies that prove that small cell does *not* promote hygienic behaviour? Or better still, provide a link?

No offence, just asking - as I said, I'm still trying to understand how things work, and many SC beeks seem to find some correlation... even if they don't bother to prove whether the difference is statistically significant. That's why it would be interesting to see some more formal objective analysis.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

>>could you quote any studies that prove that small cell does not promote hygienic behaviour? Or better still, provide a link?


Are you kidding?
The assumption is set out here that SC promotes hygenic behaviour, and from what is being said here is based soely opinion, 
I challenge that assumption, asking for basis to the claims and your asking me to find studdies to disprove your opinion?

I observe hygenic behaviour in my bees also, on LC. There are lines that are being selected to promote that trait, finding the bees that promote it from the bees that dont.
I could find you some of that studdy if you please,
But to suggest by mearly moving the bees, from genetically hygenic or not, to SC foundation and transforming them to hygenic stock just doesnt add up, to me anyway.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I've seen many a bee in my observation hive do a "get it off me dance" and some other bee will help. Unfortunately the mite usually runs to the one helping and then they start doing the dance.


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