# Winter feeding...sugar cakes



## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

When making sugar cakes in preparation for winter feeding ho much sugar (weight) is required per hive to start them out. ...how much sugar is used for each individual sugar cake? Recipes will say use x amount of sugar and H2O but don't tend say how many hives it will feed. I understand that hives need checking and some may need a top up but how much does one start with?


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Have you thought about feeding thick syrup in September to bring the colony up to weight? The feed will be in the comb, right where the bees need it. Candy is more of an emergency feed.


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## Goat Man (Nov 23, 2011)

wbvc,

Some info that may be helpful to you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_WLCc21-Hk


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

Keeping a hive going on sugar cakes over the winter is a last resort -- you should feed them up to weight in the fall instead, so they don't have to cluster on the top of the hive and start their brood nest too high in the spring.

If you must, for some reason, feed candy, use a candy board, which is really a shallow box a few inches deep with some hardware cloth on the bottom (1/2" so the bees can get through) which is filled with "candy" or sugar cake. Otherwise, it will have to fit under the inner cover on top of the frames and you will need to put more on several times as the bees will typically use a fairly large amount over the winter.

Save yourself all that trouble and get a hivetop feeder. Starting this month you can feed 1:1 syrup if you need comb drawn, and in a few weeks switch to 2:1 and feed them until either they refuse it or you have 80 or more pounds of syrup stored in the hive. Feed a protein patty as well, they need protein for strong winter bees.

That way you will have well fed, strong bees with plenty of winter food and can leave the hive closed up all winter.

Peter


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## Goat Man (Nov 23, 2011)

Good advice Peter. I do all that you recommend above plus add the sugar cake as insurance
for winter survival. You never know what the winter will bring. I don't put the sugar cake on them
until mid December and it lasts until March. Then I can start them on sugar syrup and protein again for the build up.

My bees spent the winter clustered IN the hollowed out sugar cake. I also use the sugar cake to absorb the moisture
in the hive too. It sucks it up so no moisture problems. Works great for me.

Sam


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

Thanks for the replies...BUT...how big...how much sugar by weight...goes into each sugar cake?...

I know...those that do it year after just put "so much" per cake, "so many" cakes per hive.

For those that have never done this before...baby stp specifics are really appreciated


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## Goat Man (Nov 23, 2011)

WBVC,

Checkout the link I gave you in my earlier post. It tells you the size of shim to use,
how much sugar to put in it and the amount of water to add. I use one of these for
the entire winter per hive.

Sam


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

Thanks..I had seen that video...it is good but was wondering if 16 lb is the weight required for most hives.

I had seen how others make sugar bricks or pies and put them directly on the top of the frames. That is the approach I am leaning towards with a quilt above that space....3" for feeding and 3" for the sugar brick. I had panned on 1/8 " wire between the 2 so I could use it as a summer vent box/ screened inner cover.

So the total weight of candy bricks per hive should be around 16 lb or did that just fit the candy tray made in the video?

Thanks.


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## Goat Man (Nov 23, 2011)

I make sure the bees have at least a full super of honey on Oct 1. Then in Dec. I add the sugar.
I use 16 lb of sugar. That works for me in Missouri. You are much further north then I am.
You might want to check with some local beeks in your area for what works there.

Sam


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

Apparently bee club meetings start mid Sept so am hoping some folks with experience will be there.

I have just done a test batch. Each cake tray is 51/3 lb sugar. I made up 4 of them. 2 will fit on top of the frames. 

If Lauri replies it would be great as she is in the same climate as we are.

I added a bit of prohealth to the mix (the total liquid was as per the recipe).

How long will, should it, take for them to dry into hard bricks rather than being like soft fudge?

Does it get cold where you are? We are usually above freezing, sometimes freezing at night with around 2 weeks of hard cold that usually appears in Feb.

Thanks all


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## Andrew Dewey (Aug 23, 2005)

Before this thread I had not heard of sugar cakes - sugar candy yes - I wouldn't want to guess that they are the same thing and give you info about candy.

You've already had it explained that feeding any kind of sugar in winter is emergency feed and means that you as beekeeper did not properly prepare your hive for winter. But that was not your question.

Sounds like you have found a recipe that is at least functional for you. I think you are wasting your money on Pro Health but it is your money.

Yes this is a topic I feel strongly about. Things happen in the winter time that keep you from visiting the hives. If you planned to feed in February but you are unable for whatever reason to check the hive, you just lost your hive. And it was preventable. So nothing to start out with. Give candy/cake only when you observe the bees to be out of stores and likely to starve. If you have to give cake/candy routinely it probably means that you took too much honey for yourself or you failed to feed adequately in the fall.


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## Goat Man (Nov 23, 2011)

with 16lb of sugar and 3 cups of water my sugar turns out like wet oatmeal. Yours sound too wet.
Mine take about 2 days to harden up.

Sounds like we have similar weather patterns.


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## Bob_in_Westsylvania (May 5, 2013)

WBVC

We made our candy boards using a piece of Lauan sub-flooring cut the same size as an inner cover. We add furring strips (on edge) around the edge of the lauan, screwed and glued to the board. I add a 4"x 4" x 1 in block of wood to the middle of the board and use a hole saw to cut a 3" hole. We then seal every joint with silicon caulking.

We use 10 pounds of sugar to 2 cups of water, heat to 240 degrees--use a candy thermometer-- constantly stirring. When it gets to 240 degrees, we pour into the tray (candy board). It sets up almost immediately. Next day it is Rock Candy, solid. 

Currently we are feeding 1:1 syrup in top feeders. That will change to 2:1 after the first frost. Then when the daily temps are around 40, the feeders will be replaced with the candy boards, candy side down, next to the brood and will be replenished until late winter.


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

Michael Palmer said:


> Have you thought about feeding thick syrup in September to bring the colony up to weight? The feed will be in the comb, right where the bees need it. Candy is more of an emergency feed.


Yes...I am feeding 2:1 in hive top feeders. Interestingly not all are interested. The weakest takes very little although I can see pollen going in on bees.


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

Had some of the additive so used some...only purchased it once and thought I would try it.Smells nice if nothing else.

I did use 16 lb sugar to 3 cups liquid...it is already firming up

I do realize this is emergency feed. In my best to have it available.

5 of the hives now have 2 full deeps, 9 have a solid deep plus a partially filled 2nd deep. One has a weak single deep.

My thoughts for winter are to consolidate the partially filled deeps as full second deeps, then use the filled medium honey supers over the remaining single deeps.

I hear some put on 16 lb of sugar per hive...others half that.

I am still undecided re wraping the hives. ...or simply using tarps.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Then use a contact feeder like gallon cans.


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

Michael Palmer said:


> Then use a contact feeder like gallon cans.


By this do you mean for the weak hive to make it like a jar with holes in the lid and put it directly on the frames with a deep to protect it?


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

Bob_in_Westsylvania said:


> View attachment 7596
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 Could you make this same stuff...pour into cake pans, cool, unmold and then use like a brick?


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

WBVC said:


> Could you make this same stuff...pour into cake pans, cool, unmold and then use like a brick?


yes


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## SueBeeTN (Mar 2, 2012)

I use a recipe one of our club members gave us: 4# sugar, 1# water (pint), 1 teaspoon vinegar. We pour this into two round cake pans, it fills about half way, and feeds two hives. You mix the three ingredients, bring to a boil, then simmer for 15 minutes. After 15 minutes insert candy thermometer, turn up on high heat until thermometer gets to 240 degrees (not over 240 degrees or the candy will get too hard), then remove from heat. At this point you can add some honey and/or Megabee (or something similar). Tear the Megabee into small pieces before putting in. After it cools about 10-15 minutes, mix with an electric mixer and then pour into cake or pie pans. Line the pans with aluminum foil so you can remove easily. It varies with each hive how long one sugar cake will last, some a month or more, some will eat it in a week! Hope this helps.


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

When placing sugar bricks where do they go? I think most of my hives will winter with 2 deeps...the lower seem to be primarily brood with some stores and the upper largely honey. Would I put it above the brood frames (above the lower deep) or above the uppermost deep that is mainly honey...or do you put them above both.
I keep hearing bees won't move much to get sugar stores...even saw posts where bees starved out with both capped honey and sugar available.
So it seems what to feed, when to feed and where to feed.
It was helpful to hear that at least one bee club advises 5 lb sugar blocks and 1 per hive. I was beginning to think I needed 10 lbs per hive to start.

When do you put the sugar on? ...when put the hives up for winter, in Dec, in the New Year.

I tried the cold mix of sugar and water but it didn't go hard like a sugar cube..it would have crumbled apart if I tried to lift it. I only waited 2 days...how long would one need to wait for it to get hard and dry? I put it in disposable aluminum cake pans. The stuff I heated to 240F hardened up quickly but is a lot more work! With 15 hives I expect I will need 30 5lb sugar blocks.
Premade protein patties are sounding better every day

Does one put those on at the same time as the sugar cakes?

Thanks to all who take the time and effort to guide those who are starting out.


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

Michael Palmer said:


> Then use a contact feeder like gallon cans.


I only had some Mason jars but set 4 of those directly on the frames. I did notice they had taken up all the syrup I had drizzled on top of the frames and inner cover...they just ignore the hive top feeder (I dd change out the feeder and put in fresh syrup but that made no difference)


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