# The Apidictor



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I'd be happy to build it and see if it works. Does this mean I have to induce a hive to swarm to find out?

I've built a lot of guitar effects and preamps with ICs.


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## piccioni (Jul 8, 2003)

If you'd want to build it that's fine, but I'd probably build & test a few units to make sure they all worked the same, and so on.

Anyway, I take that as a definite maybe!

I don't know if you'll have to induce a swarm, but it sounds like you already know the hymm they'll be buzzing before they do it!


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## muayad (Feb 17, 2004)

Hello piccioni 
I'd be very glad to build it and to test. Please, send me the design.
Thank you in advaned.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

I'll try it!!!!! What is it??????


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## piccioni (Jul 8, 2003)

Bruce. 

The apidictor is this gizmo

http://www.beesource.com/plans/apidictor.htm

I hibernated through the winter - I'll start this up again.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I would love to build one on a ic. Please be sure to publish the schematics if/when you get it figure out.


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## piccioni (Jul 8, 2003)

Michael

I've tried to PM you, but it doesn't like your email.

Can you look into it?


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## jalal (Sep 2, 2004)

i can try it out also.


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## searcher (May 26, 2005)

[No message]


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## jalal (Sep 2, 2004)

forgot to give my email,

jalalabee -at- linux mail dot org

could you also email me searcher?

i'd certainly like to get in touch!


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## piccioni (Jul 8, 2003)

Just to let y'all know I have completed a design and am preparing a prototype to make sure the circuit works as designed. 

Where I will need help is to test the beekeeping aspects of the circuit. In other words, to ensure the circuit as designed can detect an hive about to swarm.

Muayad has been very helpful by providing some research (in Czech) regarding the sounds a swarming hive makes. 

It would be very helpful if somebody has a recording of a hive about to swarm.

I'm pretty sure the circuit will work, I'm just not in a position to confirm whether the Apidictor worked as promised - yet. In the event I can get this to work properly, I intend to basically offer the circuit to the world (i.e. free for all).

I understand that not everybody is in a position to assemble and debug a circuit from scratch and 
if it subsequently turns out people want, I'll have a bunch of boards assembled and tested and I'll sell them at basically cost.


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## Rob (Mar 29, 2005)

You can put me on your testers (or buyers) list,,I'd love to try that out.As every bloke does I love trying out gadgets and one that can identify swarms is a double bonus.


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## Les Evans (Aug 25, 2005)

Hi piccioni,
I was wondering how your Apidictor design was/is working?
I am very interested in building your design,I have looked all over the web looking for one to build and have only found the plans on this site.
I love playing around with electronics and the Apidictor looks like a fun one to build if for anything the enjoyment of building it.

Thank you


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## Jack Johnson (Jun 3, 2005)

Piccioni,
I too would like to get on your testers/buyers list for the Apidictor. E-mail me at "jacmar(at)magma(dot)ca" I am more than ready to start building and we could compare notes.

Jack


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## db_land (Aug 29, 2003)

Piccioni,
Would your device be capable of detecting bees in a wall or ceiling? If so, I would like to build/buy and try it. Right now I use an old/cheap stethoscope - it's ok but not really suited for the higher frequency bee hum.


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## Hill's Hivery (Jan 7, 2005)

Ok....count me in too. I was thinking of building one from the plans on here, but an updated version would be great. I would also be interested in buying the completed board as I have NO knowledge on circuitry.


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## dickm (May 19, 2002)

On another thread I posted something I heard at EAS. "Someone", possibly a scientist, made something similar, to measure the wing-beat frequency of the bee. Seems AFB have a faster wing beat. The idea was to pinpoint AFB easily. That's all I know about it.

Dickm


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I'm going to bet small cell bees will beat their wings faster too.







They are almost always just measuring a difference in size.


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## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

I know a bit about this:

The device claimed to be able to detect EHB from AHB was 
developed by Martin Marietta in 1988. I honestly have 
no idea how good a tool it is, as I don't know anyone who 
has used the device in actual field work, and the patent
(US Patent 4,876,721) likely inhibited people from
using the technique, as to do so without paying
Martin Marietta some sort of license fee would be 
patent infringement.

But I have my doubts about it. There are well-known factors 
that may doom this approach to the scrapheap of "it seemed
like a good idea at the time". Wingbeat frequencies will
vary with temperature, and with "mission".

Not surprisingly, wingbeat frequency is affected by 
ambient temperature, just as all insect physical 
activities are:
http://www.unlv.edu/faculty/roberts/thermoregulation.htm 

The mere fact that ambient temperature is not even mentioned
by the "inventors" of the patented method reveals that they
ran out and patented before they even understood basic things
about variations in wingbeat frequencies for any one breed of
bees. (Maybe the variation is slight, but even if it is slight,
I would cost all of $5.00 to add a knob to compensate for 
temperature, and narrow down the two frequency ranges to narrower
and perhaps better-separated frequency bands.)

As for "mission", bees will use different wingbeat frequencies 
when they hover, fly at cruising speed, or dive in an attack mode. 
I am lucky enough to have a good enough ear to be able to tune 
pianos, so I can hear what I call "kamakaz-bees", those bees that 
fly straight into your forehead or veil as a warning that you
should back off, and leave the hive alone. The wingbeat
frequency of an "attacking" (yeah, I know it is really
"defending") bee is a frequency that is distinctive.
You need a quiet yard to hear this, so suburban beekeepers
may have a hard time hearing this over the usual background 
noise of what you call "civilization".

But load mass does not change wingbeat frequency, even though
this would seem to be a good way to fly/hover better if one 
were flying with a greater load:

http://jeb.biologists.org/cgi/content/figsonly/206/11/1855 

EHB wingbeats are said to have a "fundamental" frequency 
in the 210 to 240 Hz range. AHB wingbeats are said to be
in the 260 to 290 Hz range. (I have not verified any of
this myself, I am just quoting the published research.)

One could even use an off-the-shelf electronic guitar
tuner, and avoid all the messing around with soldering
up a kludge circuit to test this:

210 Hz is close to G-sharp (207.65 Hz)
240 Hz is close to B-natural (246.94 Hz)
260 Hz is very close to C-natural (261.63)
290 Hz is close to D-natural (296.66)

But you don't need to do fast-Fourier analysis to detect
the actual fundamentals. The fundamentals will be the
highest "peaks" in a spectrum analysis, so one can use
an "apidictor-like" approach, tuning through the frequencies,
and looking at relative volume levels.

So, a couple of op-amps with resistors and capacitors to use
them as bandpass filters, maybe a VU meter to show relative
"volume level" at various frequencies, and you have yourself
a nice little toy. Pick up a cheap shotgun mic or parabolic
reflector mic, and you can use the tool without having to
approach suspected AHB hives, which might be a more painful 
way to "detect" AHB, but is clearly far superior 
in terms of accurate assesment.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

Wasn't Martin Marietta the company that exploded on the market with everything asbestos 40 yrs ago?


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## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

> Wasn't Martin Marietta the company that exploded 
> on the market with everything asbestos 40 yrs ago?

That was Johns Manville.
The company is gone, but the trust to pay claims
still exists.

While their website is http://www.mantrust.org/ 
I don't know any man who trusts them.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

Yep, that's it! They were headed down when I worked in Denver 25 yrs ago.

Pretty interesting concept on the apiductor, but once the bees know won't it be too late to change their mind?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>once the bees know won't it be too late to change their mind?

But not too late to do a split or catch the swarm.


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