# A little help here on queen grafting



## oldfordguy (Dec 5, 2009)

The 2 things I have discovered that seem to help the most when grafting are:
1. Cut down the cells you are grafting from so they are short and you can get to the larvae more easily
2. Identify which ones to graft from by looking for a circle of eggs, and graft from the row of cells just outside; just where you can see a reflection or shine in the bottom of the cell (I can't see well enough to see the larvae that I'm grafting, although my son can! so I'm going to make him start doing the grafting.)


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

https://www.amazon.com/Beileshi-Mag...d=1470840574&sr=8-3&keywords=magnifying+visor


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## WillH (Jun 25, 2010)

You are only looking at half of the equation. Most problems I had grafting were related to cell starter. Just because it is queenless, it may not start queen cells


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## Michael Vendryes (Jul 23, 2014)

WillH said:


> You are only looking at half of the equation. Most problems I had grafting were related to cell starter. Just because it is queenless, it may not start queen cells


 Thats a good point, i went back and watched some more Youtube on grafting and I think my cell starter was also weak. My grafting technique that I used was completely wrong , rather than trying to slip the chineese grafting tool under the lava I was instead twirling it around the side like trying to pick up spaghetti. I'm going to try again today by re-doing my cell starter with lots of young bees and re-graft tomorrow.

Thanks for the help, its the people on this website that make it such a great resource. That magnifier looks amazing, I my get one.


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## JConnolly (Feb 21, 2015)

Greetings Michael.

I'm also a new grafter. In my first attempt my kill rate was roughly 4:1. I made two grafting attempts and ultimately none of my grafts was successful, giving me a 100% kill rate.

My pathetic first attempt, and some helpful advice from others, is down in the queen sub forum here
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?329109-6-cups-grafted-Killed-over-20-in-the-process
Apparently it takes practice (imagine that) and I was naive to think I'd succeed the first time.


In the end I ended up with six queen cells that are now capped.


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## AJ7 (Aug 26, 2015)

if you have access to frames of eggs put why not put a frame in each queenless hive, then take your time to figure out grafting.


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

The cell starter works so much better if it is hopelessly queenless. That means no eggs or younger open larva. It also needs to be pretty well packed with bees. Place your cell bar between a frame of mostly pollen and a frame of mostly open nectar. I don't use a feeder then, as it can attract robbing frenzy from other hives. The cell starter is usually the fail point when grafting, but not always.

Wear a strong pair of reading glasses, or two pair even, one in front of the other. The last time I got them it was a 3 pack at Walmart for $9.95 but that was a few years ago. The larva you want are so young that they look more like a wet spot on the bottom of the cell. The reading glasses makes them look like giant white worms, which makes it much easier to pick them up and release them.

The Chinese tool works great for me, glad you figured out now how to use it correctly.

Best of luck to you, practice makes perfect!


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## bee keeper chef (Nov 1, 2015)

look at scientific bee keeping Randy Oliver queens for pennies


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

Here is the link to "Queens For Pennies" by Randy Oliver...

http://scientificbeekeeping.com/queens-for-pennies/


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## Michael Vendryes (Jul 23, 2014)

RayMarler said:


> Here is the link to "Queens For Pennies" by Randy Oliver...
> 
> http://scientificbeekeeping.com/queens-for-pennies/


So round two of raising queen cells, I took all the advise here and I felt a little more capable in my grafting I did 45 of which I'd say at least half made it into the cups right side up. I'm hoping for 10 queens to get myself sorted out, if this doesn't work I' m screwed.
The system I'm using is a closed in nuc to raise the queens then transfer to a finisher, the hive I'm taking them from is extremely strong i've already put the queen excluder on it.


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

Good luck, keep us all posted as for the progress.


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## Michael Vendryes (Jul 23, 2014)

RayMarler said:


> Good luck, keep us all posted as for the progress.


Wow! What a difference 48 hour makes, from shear pannic to shear pleasure, I only needed 10,queens but if I get more I won't say know. 

Again the people on Bee source are Awesome with encourgmant and advise both equally important. Thank You, Thank You, Thank You. I mean it. As I said in my last post I would have been screwed if the graft didnt take. So thankful to all again  When I moved the graft into the cell builder today I counted 40 ish out of the 45 grafts that I were accepted, which exceeded my expectations in every way. I was feeeling so down about it. Infact for the first time in 3 years I didnt even want to go up to the hives, ( fear of failure......who knows?) any how I was up in the bee yard exactly 24 hours later, and as soon as I raised the graft and saw the cells full of jelly, and starting to be capped I knew I was in much better shape and puched the air with joy. My wife was laughing the kids were happy too and for a short while I thought there must be a God.... Any how i'm so happy that the bees have excepted the graft and for you ladies and gents for helping me.

I'll update you in 9 more days as to if my queens made it, if they did it will be fantatic because these bees we're too strong and produced 3 full frames of honey 105lbs this year.


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

So... Did you take notes? 
Very good, hopefully you will have some virgins to sell in 12 days.


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## Michael Vendryes (Jul 23, 2014)

RayMarler said:


> So... Did you take notes?
> Very good, hopefully you will have some virgins to sell in 12 days.


Yes I took loads of notes, I don't want to sell any, I'll probably use the all up. Next year I need to start breeding grafting in the , I guess that would better time to start.
Thanks again.


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