# Expand or Winter Queen Castle?



## Steve10 (Nov 19, 2008)

Need some help.

Applying all the great information I learned on this forum and a lot of luck, I've ended up with 10 more mated queens than I need to re-queen my hives. I raised them all from queen cells in deep queen castles ( 4 x 2 frames per bay), which they're still in.

Can I remove two of the division boards from each queen castle and make them into 2 x 4 frame overwintering nucs? I have enough Q Castles to do it.

Should I sacrifice one of my production hives to give each overwintering nuc another frame(s) of brood, pollen, or nectar/honey? With or without bees? Suggestions on how best to introduce new/more bees, i.e. just add the frames, shake the bees in front of the hive, etc. Or should I just give them frames of foundation and feed (sorry, no more drawn comb I can steal)?

Of course, I'm a little hesitant to interrupt my production hives (the original 10) but will do what's necessary. Feel bad because I've been stealing frames of brood, pollen, and nectar from them all summer to grow from 10 to 50 hives. We've finally got a good goldenrod flow that we're counting on for producing enough winter stores for my "expanding" family. Guess I didn't plan this very well.

All advice appreciated.
Thanks, Steve


----------



## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

I haven't read of anybody trying to overwinter 4 queens in a 4 by 2 frame box. 
It doesn't mean you couldn't try, but I wonder if your clusters will be big enough? Bees like a spherical cluster - I don't think a two framer is wide enough.
Now making them into 4 or 5 frames, that seems much more likely to succeed.
If you click on Mike Palmers name on any of his posts and then click "read all posts by Mike Palmer" you will find a treasure trove of information on how to overwinter nuc's.


----------



## slickbrightspear (Jan 9, 2009)

I remember seeing mike bush say something about 2 frame nucs but not sure if he was over winteriing them or not. If you were going to do that I would want to stack it on another hive to help them with heat.


----------



## fish_stix (May 17, 2009)

Those extra queens aren't bad, sauteed in butter with a little honey-mustard sauce!


----------



## winevines (Apr 7, 2007)

Steve10 said:


> Can I remove two of the division boards from each queen castle and make them into 2 x 4 frame overwintering nucs? I have enough Q Castles to do it.


A few years ago, I used a queen castle and divided it in two, and wintered two four frame nucs with a division board feeder in each side just fine. I also did it with 2 five frame nucs, and drilled holes up top to feed from the top. I have 7 zillion photos documenting the approaches I used.. I made shims so that I could feed fondant in the winter, we made a screened bottom board for the queen castle, etc. So long story short, this method of wintering 4 frame nucs in a queen castle should work just fine. The key is getting the right balance of brood and honey stores before winter. I found that I had to feed fondant come January in the nucs, but here the bees were able to fly too much during winters, so they needed it as there was nothing to eat. Search on this forum on overwintered nucs and you will find some great discussions, much by Mpalmer and mainebeekeeper. Happy to share any specific photos with you off line.


----------



## Steve10 (Nov 19, 2008)

Adrian - I agree. 2 frame nucs overwintering nucs would probably fail in this area.
Slickbrightspear - Stacking them sounds good.
Fish_stix - I prefer throwing them in a bottle of Tequila like the worm! I'm sure it will make a real man out of me, just like the worm does!
Winevines - very good point about the "balance" of brood and stores. Love to see some pics of how you did it. I'll PM you.

Thanks all,
Steve


----------



## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

Here's how one outfit winters 2 frame nucs in Manitoba.

http://www.mbbeekeeping.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=48&Itemid=59


----------



## winevines (Apr 7, 2007)

Steve10 said:


> Should I sacrifice one of my production hives to give each overwintering nuc another frame(s) of brood, pollen, or nectar/honey? With or without bees? Suggestions on how best to introduce new/more bees, i.e. just add the frames, shake the bees in front of the hive, etc. Or should I just give them frames of foundation and feed (sorry, no more drawn comb I can steal)?


Steve- I will send you a link to some photos. I just re read your post. Foundation will likely not be sufficient at this time of year and you will need drawn comb, brood, and/or honey. If you search on overwintered nucs here on beesource, you will see that many people break down non productive colonies and use that to make up their nucs- and mostly in July, some do it it later, but now it is already September and you are late in the season now, so you need to consider what these nucs are going to need to make it through.


----------



## Steve10 (Nov 19, 2008)

Cam - That link is a very interesting method. I actually did something similar last year with two hives I "adopted" in the middle of winter. Put supplemental heat under the hives (thermostatically controlled light bulbs.) They not only made it through, they started the season way ahead of my other colonies and have been my best production hives this year. But that's a whole other topic for another thread!

Karla - Thanks again for the pics. If this goldenrod flow keeps up, I'll probably be able to something similar to what you've done and as you and others have suggested.

Thanks again,
Steve


----------



## Merlyn Votaw (Jun 23, 2008)

Remember what you learned on how to raise queens . Might be able to sell a few Queens in the spring


----------



## Steve10 (Nov 19, 2008)

Merlyn - I hope to. Part of the idea was to actually try it. Reading about it and doing it can be a lot different. Now that I've done it, some of the reading should make more sense. Don't want to wish summer away, but looking forward to winter to catch up on the "academics" of beekeeping. 

Thanks, Steve


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

If I were trying to overwinter a queen castle I would put a terrarium heater under it.


----------



## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Cam:

Have you tried this overwintering method? Seems like a minor miracle to me. I would not have thought it possible in Manitoba.Looks like a lot of fooling around. Personally I prefer overwintering larger units, in that they provide a larger margin of error. I guees with time a line of bees could be developped that can overwinter with such a small cluster.

Jean-Marc


----------

