# are there drawbacks to giving fondant in fall?



## Jaseemtp (Nov 29, 2010)

Im interested in this also. I have added fondant to all of my hives, since this is the end of my first season and with the drought I dont think the girls have much stored away.


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## Corvair68 (May 10, 2011)

I am still feeding my weak hive 2:1 syrup. They seem to be taking it in very quickly. In fact they are taking it faster now than they were during the summer. Both hives have pollen patties too. Today they were very active flying all around in search of food etc., so I decided to open feed with damp granulated sugar as well. I am concerned with all this warm weather and them being so active, that they are going to eat through their stores before winter really gets here.


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## HONEYDEW (Mar 9, 2007)

Fondant feeding will rarely cause any robbing behavior, The only prob I read with your method is the fondant needs to be in direct contact with the cluster, because when it gets truly cold out they will not budge to go to the fondant. lay it directly on the top bars for best results.....


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

I would put fondant/sugar or candy on them. Too late to feed them sugar syrup on them IMO


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## JeffStover (Nov 20, 2011)

I'm new and haven't even got bees yet. I say that because I don't want to sound like a blazing idiot by asking, what is fondant? I've seen it mentioned but none of the beekeeping glossaries have it listed.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

same here until this year. fondant is 'candy' made from sugar and other stuff, that can be formed and shaped while its warm, and then cools to a harder consistancy. from what i can tell, most folks put in on top of the frames or above the inner cover to give the bees something to eat if they use up all of their stores before spring.


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## Mtn. Bee (Nov 10, 2009)

I feed fondant patties starting in Nov. and keep feeding it till we have some dandelions starting to bloom in the spring (March-early April).
I have kept lots of bees alive that ran out of stores early and lived on fondant patties till there was a bloom.
I have also found that the bees will consume the fondant before they will there own stores, which helps to stretch there winter stores that much further into the spring.
I also add soy flour to my patties for some protein!
I place my patties between the 1st and 2nd box (in the brood nest) and will also put one on the top frames.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

that is interesting that they consume the fondant first. does your fondant turn rock hard after it cools?


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## Mtn. Bee (Nov 10, 2009)

No, it is somewhat flexible/soft. I heat it up to softball stage and not hardball!


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

so it has to do with how high you heat it? do you use a thermometer, and if so what temp to you bring it up to?


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## Mtn. Bee (Nov 10, 2009)

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Yes, I definitely use a candy thermometer.
I heat it to 235 deg F and when I first started making them I was turning them into hardball at 242 deg F.
The bees consume both, but they really like the softball and can go through a patty in about 1-2 weeks.
I also think that placement between the brood boxes makes the difference to, as they don't work there way up to the top frames till late winter/early spring.
My bees seem to do better since I place the patties between the 1st and 2nd boxes.
Just some of my findings, I am sure things are different in other areas and probably with different bees (I have Italians).


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

that's interesting a few degrees would make that much difference. i'm about to take my first shot at making some. is this about what you use?

7 Lb Sugar 
1.5 Lb HFCS 
1Lb Water 
1Lb protein substitute


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## Mtn. Bee (Nov 10, 2009)

My fondant recipe:
15# sugar
3 # glucose or white corn syrup (I use 1 qt. light corn syrup)
4 cups water (I cut this down to 3.5 cups as 4 seemed to make wet patties that leaked from wax paper)
1/2 tsp cream of tartar

Dissolve the sugar in the water by stirring and boiling the mixture to the temp of 235 deg. (I use a candy therm.)
Let cool to 180 deg. then beat till thick (I use a drill with corkscrew type mixer bit) and white or tan in color.
When almost cool scoop out onto wax paper sheet fold paper over to cover both sides, then press flat with hands. Fold in ends to make a patty approx.
4" w x 12" long x 1/4" thick.
I place 1 patty in between hive bodies and 1 under top cover.
The wax paper keeps the fondant from melting and sticking to everything, will also melt and make a big mess in hive during a warm spring day.
Also don't put fondant on wax paper when it is still hot (only warm) as it will melt the wax off the paper.
I also add a 1/2 cup off soy flour to each batch for some protein (optional).
Best of Luck! Mtn. Bee


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

thanks so much mtn bee, for taking the time to share this information. the mess in the hive on a warm spring day, is that because the fondant gets runny? i wanted to make a candy board on a empty frame, but i was concerned about it 'melting' off.


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## Mtn. Bee (Nov 10, 2009)

You are Welcome, glad to help out other beeks!
Yes, the fondant will run when it gets warm.
If you do the candy board/empty frame I would recommend that you go to the hardball stage as it doesn't melt as easy as the softball stage, also they usually put screening (ie. chicken wire, hardware cloth, etc.) in the candy boards for the candy to attach or harden to so it doesn't fall down on the bees if it breaks lose, should work in your frames instead of foundation.
I have also seen where some beeks attach a cheap plastic queen excluder over the candy on the candy boards to hold everything in place but the bees can still eat the candy.
I have been thinking of new design for a patty/candy type of feeder, but I don't want to elaborate to much at this time as it could affect my retirement! 
Best of Luck!


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

can't wait to hear about your innovation!  have you had any trouble with the soy attracting shb?


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## tsk (Nov 26, 2010)

I use the recipe at this link http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Beekeeping/Recipes_for_the_Bees#Fondant_Bee_Candy and do it without corn syrup. It's my first year so I have no ideas if the bees will have any issues with it (hopefully not). I can't imagine they would since it's simply sugar and lots of it. Like the other people mentioned, it's heated to the softball stage (which I think by definition all fondant is).


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

Here's an interesting video of what looks like fondant being fed in January. (It's on Youtube, no English spoken.
hranire albine 15-16 ianuarie 2011 2


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## Jaseemtp (Nov 29, 2010)

I am doing that, heating it up to where it is still suppose to be "fudge". I too added the soy flour and or dry pollen sub


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

i have read that hive beetles love the protein supplemented feed patties. those of you making fondant, and adding pollen, pollen substitute, or soy, have there been any problems with beetles hatching larvae in it?


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## Mtn. Bee (Nov 10, 2009)

We don't have any hive beetles this far north, at least not in my area. I have read where beeks in the south do have problems with beetles and patties!


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## gjd (Jan 26, 2011)

Doesn't sound like anyone has fervent opinions against fondant feeding in fall. My biggest concern is that it'll disrupt the winter brood cycle, or draw the cluster away from honey/brood/pollen areas. Right now they're on it like a kid on Halloween candy. I don't understand if they will stay pasted to the fondant, or move back down into the hive center when hard winter hits. I'm going to put a clear cover over my feeding chamber and find out, dammit.

My inexperienced suggestions on making it-- 1) if you end up with hard-as-rock bee candy, don't worry. Put it above the cluster where warm moist air hits it and they'll eat it. 2) zillions of recipes available in books and internet. Search engines are your friend. Use any. Relax. Have a homebrew (beer brewing joke) 3) unless you know what "soft ball" means to a cook, or are more relaxed than me, buy a cheap candy thermometer and use it. 4) to keep it softer, like frosting, keep beating or stirring as it cools. For bricks, pour into molds when hot or warm and let sit. 5) read ingredients on any prepared fondant you're thinking of buying, then don't. 6) vinegar or cream of tartar apparently reduces granulating. 6) I have no idea why corn syrup is sometimes used. I don't use it. Some say the ubiquitous vanilla additive doesn't matter. I've no clue.


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