# the box beast



## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

had some negative feedback on some other threads telling me you can't stack saw blades and use them safely. Well I have been for years and have not had any issues. Check this out - we call it the box beast. If 1 person moves the wood - and 1 person runs the saw - we can cut over 150 whole boxes per hour. All 4 sides
Check this you tube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gk6vRRfXEh4&feature=youtu.be


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## Aroc (May 18, 2016)

That's cool as heck


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## kaizen (Mar 20, 2015)

you can't just throw that monster out there and not show us the actual machine!! is that a small block chevy?? wouldn't it be better to have a jig so the board slides down but the blades are all covered? or is there a purpose for the push after the slide down on those?


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

Sak I have done the same for years also.Dados are just stacked blades also except for one of those wobble heads and I sure dont like those vibrating things!


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## My-smokepole (Apr 14, 2008)

Definitely not something to show are friends at OSHA. Now I will stop swearing.


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## DavidZ (Apr 9, 2016)

scary beast, impressive but scary. very cool. now you have me thinking. thanks sak


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

54 saw blades on a custom built shaft - drilled the saw packs and installed 4 bolts in them to hold the teeth where I want them. Pulled buy a Kubota 6 horse diesel motor.
Kaizen - the push - when the board is inserted - its on the curved part of the blades - the push levels the cut


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Beside the four holes to index the teeth, did you bore out center? What is the shaft diameter?


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

Yes bore the saw blades to 1 inch. Same as shaft size. Have 3/4 bore on ends for bearings. 6 inches on pulley side and 5 inches on the other. Took 1 inch plate and drilled/tapped for bearing mounts. Welded all this to a 1/2 plate table. On shaft i welded a 1/8 washer for a blade stop and threaded the other end 1 inch fine thread. Making sure the nut tightens while rotating. All this machine work done for less than a grand.


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

I will post more pictures when I arrive at work


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## cervus (May 8, 2016)

They say "go big, or go home". I'm headed to the house with my dado blade in tow. That is an awesome setup for production.


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## marshmasterpat (Jun 26, 2013)

Sak - Lots of folks claim lots of stuff cannot be done. That is a spooky scarey machine. 

But like a lot of old fashion stuff, it worked well but you probably have to respect it a little bit. Amazing what you can do with the right mind set.


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

Machine was being used without guards. We're still dialing it in. When we get it like we want we'll have a swivel blade guard over it. And a belt guard.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Wow


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

If only I worked at a Machine Shop I'd be building stuff like that out of scrap metal in my spare time and getting the same "you'll put your eye out" comments. 
Nice work Sak. It's beautiful.


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## tanksbees (Jun 16, 2014)

sakhoney said:


> had some negative feedback on some other threads telling me you can't stack saw blades and use them safely. Well I have been for years and have not had any issues. Check this out - we call it the box beast. If 1 person moves the wood - and 1 person runs the saw - we can cut over 150 whole boxes per hour. All 4 sides
> Check this you tube:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gk6vRRfXEh4&feature=youtu.be


Running that kubota diesel sitting on the table sure creates a lot of vibration. Bolt it to a separate stand on the floor and the machine will probably run much smoother.

Lots of respect to the guy running that machine sucking exhaust all day.

If these were my employees i'd be switching to an electric vs that diesel. But the youtube video wouldn't be as exciting.


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

Changing from diesel could be costly so sometimes you have to work with what you have got.


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## larryh (Jul 28, 2014)

aunt betty said:


> and getting the same "you'll put your eye out" comments.
> Nice work Sak. It's beautiful.


Putting his own eye out is just fine, but if he's making employees use that turn of the century style hand eater.. that would be criminal.
And no I'm not a pansy. I've been framing and building houses full time for 30 years, many of them production, as an employee and an employer, so I know my way around saws and sketchy setups and have seen some nasty stuff...
It just ain't worth it man. Shut it down.


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

As stated. Were still dialing this in. We will be installing guards asap. Also he has on a full face shield. As far as the diesel smoke the exhaust has been routed up. I also run this and did not want to be breathing diesel fumes all day. Also I have a electric motor on order.


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## tanksbees (Jun 16, 2014)

snapper1d said:


> Changing from diesel could be costly so sometimes you have to work with what you have got.


Don't get me wrong, I love the diesel, makes a great youtube video, just would not want to be using it all day long.

You can pick up 3hp electric motors from harbor freight for $150 or so, not that spendy.


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

We burned up a 5 hp on the first day going to get something bigger. Had the diesel just doing nothing and we were building on a holiday weekend. Thats why we used it originally. But you're right it does make for a good video


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

sakhoney said:


> A burned up a 5 hp on the first day going to get something bigger


With an intermittent load like that, some heavy flywheel weight would cut down the motor size you need but that would be too complicated a refit. Easier to just get a bigger motor. Do you have three phase? Those can be picked up for a song compared to single phase.


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

Of course, if there is a safer way to do things, we want to do it.
But the video does not look that scary to me.
I grew up with friends and relatives that did this 8 hours a day for their entire life:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljZQHSPEfwg


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

With the burned up motor. It was weak to start with and I had all the blades slip and pile themselves up. Got that figured out. Then installed the diesel. Have an industrial 5 HP on the way. It was a harbor freight that fried. Were getting set up to start turning out boxes to sell were having issues with shaft drift that I think I have the cure for. After that we'll guard up and put some permanent guides in place and start turning and burning. I work in the oilfield where safety is high priority. But sometimes you have to run something to find out what's wrong with it. While you don't see the whole setup the operator has on safety glasses and a full face shield. And the exhaust is shooting up. All in the doorway of a large shop with a 48 inch fan behind him.


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

Dang Harry - looks like we both live on the edge


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## Jim_in_PA (May 17, 2016)

I think this is pretty innovative for "the task at hand", honestly, and once you have it refined (with very careful operation for testing) you can get it setup for safer operation. A sled-like support on rails to hold that piece vertically and steady would help with outfitting both a guard and proper dust collection, too.

If the 5hp doesn't provide enough "oomph" to spin that load, the 3ph option that was mentioned with a larger motor is still a good option. If 3ph isn't in your shop, a VFD is one of several ways to run that bigger motor on 1ph power. (Or you could build a rotary phase converter)


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

Whenever I complained about fairness or safety on the job my boss quickly would ask if I had my birth certificate handy and could I point out where it says "life is safe and fair". It was one of them companies that had some odd policies.

1) If you fall you're fired before you hit the ground and you don't work here anymore.
2) If you get electrocuted you're insta-fired. 

Not kidding.


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## bsharp (Feb 5, 2013)

aunt betty said:


> 2) If you get electrocuted you're insta-fired.


Are you sure that wasn't a typo? *insta-fried*?

On a serious note, hopefully they never have to find out how wrong they would be against a worker's comp claim...


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

bsharp said:


> Are you sure that wasn't a typo? *insta-fried*?
> 
> On a serious note, hopefully they never have to find out how wrong they would be against a worker's comp claim...


Yeah, that too. The policy stood and I'm talking about a very large industrial factory that makes plastic bottles. Think about 8 million square feet sized. People got electrocuted because Goober kept running high voltage wires thru the low voltage conduits. People thought there were working with 48 volts and got bit by 600 or 480. Goober didn't last long. One day he asked us why we call him Goober. lol


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

HarryVanderpool said:


> Of course, if there is a safer way to do things, we want to do it.
> But the video does not look that scary to me.
> I grew up with friends and relatives that did this 8 hours a day for their entire life:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljZQHSPEfwg


Ok Harry, what the HE?? ARE they doing???


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

SNL - if I was a betting man I would say there making cedar shanks for roofing


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

sakhoney said:


> SNL - if I was a betting man I would say there making cedar shanks for roofing


Thanks.......... I'd have never guessed that.........former city guy that I am.........


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

sakhoney said:


> SNL - if I was a betting man I would say there making cedar shanks for roofing


What else would they make at a redwood shake and shingle mill? 
Shingles.


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

here's another about the same but you can see the whole package

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ9ouisgi6s


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

They are sawing shakes for roofing.
I had a lot of step-relatives and friends in the business when I was growing up.
The guy in the video is going really, really slow and for good reason; the boards are pretty poor.
I have a step-brother that could saw 350 bundles of shakes in 8 hours with premium, straight grain cedar.
That was BIG MONEY back in the day!!!
If there was a video of him, you would not believe your eyes at how fast he could shove the boards through the saw!
I spent a summer in my college days splitting (then the boards go up to the sawyer) and packing (Making bundles out of shakes that have been re-sawed) but never ran the saw.
It was hard, hard work but many people that I grew up around were hard core cedar shake folks.
Oddly, it gets in your blood much like beekeeping.
For me; I much prefer bees!


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## DavidZ (Apr 9, 2016)

vid is listed as private can't be viewed.



sakhoney said:


> here's another about the same but you can see the whole package
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ9ouisgi6s


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

I thank I got it fixed now


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## kaizen (Mar 20, 2015)

sak as you're still tweaking this i'll throw this out there. maybe you've already ruled it out for some reason. what about turning the table vertical? You already said the table is 1/2 inch plate so if you make similar gaurds out of steel at the front and back of the blades....having the then bottom one longer as a feed table...then it would be much harder to get hurt. if anything does break.....cause we know everything does...nothing will come through to the operator but instead either hit the new gaurds or be shot out the back. plus a lot easier on the shoulders then having to go up as high as they do now.


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

After we get this dialed in I'm looking at a self feeding system. Maybe a chain drive or air ram to get us away from the cutter head


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Love it.

Take an oil rig guy to make something like that.


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## bibbster (Jun 10, 2016)

kaizen said:


> sak as you're still tweaking this i'll throw this out there. maybe you've already ruled it out for some reason. what about turning the table vertical? You already said the table is 1/2 inch plate so if you make similar gaurds out of steel at the front and back of the blades....having the then bottom one longer as a feed table...then it would be much harder to get hurt. if anything does break.....cause we know everything does...nothing will come through to the operator but instead either hit the new gaurds or be shot out the back. plus a lot easier on the shoulders then having to go up as high as they do now.


I was thinking something similar where the blades edges that are directly across from the operator are used in conjunction with a table that moves up and down into the blades, instead of sliding the boards across the tops of the blade edges. It would keep things square, but more importantly keep the operator a bit more safe.

Great job so far!!! I love ingenuity at work!


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## marshmasterpat (Jun 26, 2013)

Oldtimer said:


> Love it.
> 
> Take an oil rig guy to make something like that.


That is what my father in law did and yep, that is exactly what I could see him making in his old shop.


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

just for you beepro


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Thanks, Sak!
Somethin to thinker about.
If you built 2 of them then the output is better. 
Of course, improving the safety features on the 1st version first.


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

2 of them??? Hell I can't keep up feeding this one - eats wood faster than I can buy it - I haven't sold any boxes yet.
Hoping to get an inventory ready this winter though so I can recoup some of my money back.
Will be working on some guards for this when I return home
But ya got to admit - its bad to the bone


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

If this is a new invention then I would not invest too much until I 
make sure these boxes can be sold or use. Excess inventory is just
money sitting there not growing your operation. I would calculate how
much can be sold and how much can be use for your operation. Of course, inventory
left over can be use for next year's growth but not too excessive will do. Mentor can only
show you so much. Growing your operation is up to you to plan it. Beekeeping is all local some
years it is growing like crazy some years it does not. With the changes in our climate now I
would be a bit cautious to invest in more excess inventory. When I look at the recent flooding over
at the other states and countries, I wonder when it is going to be our turn here?


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

I have over 300 hives and I could quickly expand to 400/450 if these boxes don't sell. But I have a couple orders in the works right now. Plus I'm thanking - use new to split nucs. There's a large market for those if there built early enough. Plus I got to have something to spent all this oil money on. After 40 years of beekeeping I no longer have a mentor. Also - if I have to keep everything - 1 good tallow flow will pay me back plus. My plans are - when I return home this trip - I should have enough inventory to place an ad here on bee source. I plan on catering to the little guys. I will have starter sets ready to go, and if there still in my warehouse come spring - I will shove in a nuc and let them pull foundation and make a deep or two of honey. Then I'll start selling nucs, singles, queens & doubles.
I'm in no hurry to get a return on the money spent on wood. I've been in this game for a long time and I know I can sell.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Ugh, even when they don't sell you can still have extra reserves from the oil money.
Maybe for the manuka honey you can grow some plants there too. I wonder which variety will
grow in TX? Ebay is expensive on those honey too.


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## 357 (May 2, 2016)

Amazing setup. Love the stacked blades but be careful. I am also interested in some woodenware. Can't wait to see the ad.


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

357 said:


> Amazing setup. Love the stacked blades but be careful. I am also interested in some woodenware. Can't wait to see the ad.


I think if the setup is called the "box beast", then the wooden ware should be called "The Beast Box"!


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

A few dollars add up quickly in large quantity.
We'll all be interested when the price is right.
The only question is can you keep up with the order? Maybe
it is time to build another set up for the extra demands when the price is right.


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## Hillbillybees (Mar 3, 2016)

That being said will the price be right? We need a Black Friday year round price. Shipping is the killer so we need guys like you around the country. Shastina is awesome but by the time you add shipping....


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## elmer_fud (Apr 21, 2018)

This is a 2 year old thread


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

but it is still active Elmer and we got the beast dialed in. finishing up a 2000 box run and December gonna start a 2700 box run
hillbilly - check the for sale for ad - selling assembled deeps and mediums for what most are selling un-assembled boxes for


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