# Cedar Glenn Bees



## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

I know some have had good experiences and not so good experiences with this company. Last year, i dealt with them and I liked them a lot. This year, totally different. 

I drove out there, which is about an hour and a half out to buy some queens. I bought 4 buckfest and 1 carni. I gave my friend the carni. I put all four buckfests in my hives. I checked them two or three weeks since I put them in and two of them were drone layers. I pinched them. I called my friend to forwarn him and he said he would check. He did and she was no laying at all. This was three weeks after I bought them. 

I just got off the phone with Cedar Glenn Bees and he said that I was supposed to save the bodies. I did not know that. No where on their web site does it say this. He said I could come and pick up replacements or he would ship them to me IF I WOULD PAY THE SHIPPING. 

To me, that is no way to do business.


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

This is a letter I just sent them. I hope they pull through. 

"Hello!

My name is Isaac and I just got off the phone your the gentlemen who owns Cedar Glens. 

First, I dealt with you all last year and had a great experience. That is why I drove out there this year to buy queens I bought 4 buckfast and 1 Carni. 

I got the queens from you all and put them in my hives that day. Three weeks later, to of the buckfast queens were drone layers and the carni did not lay at all. At that time, I pinched the queens. 

Upon calling you all this evening, you said that I would have to drive or pay the shipping for replacements. I am sorry, but you sold me what essentially is an ineffective product. Two of the queens were drone layers and the other did not lay at all. 

I would like for you all to send me replacements and I do not expect to pay the shipping or gas. I have been a loyal customer and at the least, this is what you guys can do. 

I would like to solve this issue. If we can not resolve this issue, I will not be able to afford to do business with you all anymore and will be sharing my past experience with other beekeepers, both local and outside the area. 

Thank you for your time. If you need to reach me, you can call me at 360 261 2055. 

Thank you for your time. "


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

Chef, I feel your pain, the last queen breeder I dealt with would do absolutely nothing, not even file the insurance he bought, It took over a year to get it ironed out with a lot of help and pressure from this bulletin board.

Having said that, and you knowing that I went through a lot of grief, I would ask that everyone not just you, that has a problem try everything in their power to resolve it BEFORE posting it in a public forum.

When push comes to shove we will be here for you, but until that time you might find that the supplier may have a change of heart. He may respond favorably to your letter, then you might regret posting your complaint so early.


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## Curtis (Jun 25, 2005)

Yes, I agree with Bill....I think you should have waited at least a year and should have not contacted your friend at all. You should also try to get social services involved. But, by all means, "Don't" say anything about your experiences until they are settled...
Thanks Isaac for your time to forwarn others of us.
Curtis


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

Curtis you took what I said completely out of context and followed that with an idiotic statement.

A second effort was made to reason with the supplier, if the supplier comes back and agrees to the shipping problem then Chef has to withdraw some of his comments but the damage has been done, unnecessarily.

It would be no different if Chef had a problem with one of his customers, he would like a chance to hammer out the grievance before taking it public.


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## Dan Williamson (Apr 6, 2004)

If the type of comments posted by Curtis and others in recent days is indicative of the majority here at Beesource then I personally would like to see the Consumer Reports section discontinued. Of course some will be in great dismay at that comment.

In an ideal world, the Consumer Reports section is a great place to post data AFTER having gone thru all the necessary steps to resolve it and having received no satisfaction OVER A PERIOD OF TIME and after the various options and attempts at a remedy have been played out. 

Unfortunately, there is no way to vett the information posted and its clear that often not all the data is presented at the time complaints are made.

(I'm not even commenting on your post specifically Chef... I'm just talking about general attitudes I've seen in this particular section)

I don't know why people get so defensive when you just ask folks to allow all the options to play out first before posting.


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

>>>>followed that with an idiotic statement.<<<<

I think I know where most idiotic statements come from, but I would never call anyone an idiot, straight out.

Well, almost never. 

Like the "local associations" forum, maybe posts should go to the mod for review before posting. That would be better than doing away with the forum.


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

Please do not think that I have not gone through the process of trying to resolve this issue. I have called four times since finding out about the queens and have been asked to call back later and call back later and call back later. Last night was the last call I will make. I decided to email them rather and still with no response. If they do resolve this in a way that I feel it right, then of course I will post the outcome. 

Please remember, not only in this post but in other posts about this supplier, I did mention that i had a good experience with them last year. 

I am just particularly tired of buying queens and packages and then they crap out only weeks after I buy them and NOBODY will take responability for it. Not the supplier or middle man.


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## Dan Williamson (Apr 6, 2004)

Chef,

No one here is saying that you don't have a gripe and a real issue. You may very well have one! I just think that whether it is you, me, BB, idee, curtis or anyone else talking about a supplier that all info is included in the initial complaint and that the process has been allowed to play out. My comments weren't directed at you or your particular situation just at the Consumer Reports section especially after some of the comments here and in other threads.

You didn't post in your original comments that you have called them a total of 4x. Based on the info you provided first, it is easy to assume that this was your first and only call to them. This kind of information is helpful when making your intial comments so that others can have a better appreciation of the issue. 

The problem we have is that we have folks who HAVEN'T done their due diligence posting complaints... and these are intermingled with folks who have legitimate issues and have done their best to resolve it. The readers are left to try to decipher credibility of the poster. (No one is questioning your credibility here.) Basically the reader is left to ask...is this someone with a real issue or someone who just likes to complain. Unfortunately not all will try to ascertain credibility of the poster but will just assume XYZ supplier is bad.

In your letter that you claimed you "JUST" sent at 9:36PM you stated,

I would like to solve this issue. If we can not resolve this issue, I will not be able to afford to do business with you all anymore and will be sharing my past experience with other beekeepers, both local and outside the area. 

Sure I understand that you have called them 4x (now that you've clarified it) but you "just" sent this letter as you stated at 9:36pm LAST NIGHT and then proceeded to share "my past experience with other beekeepers, both local and outside the area" 

So exactly how much time did you give them for a response to your letter and to resolve this issue before you went ahead and carried out your threat? Looked to me like it was nearly simultaneous. "Just" send the letter and post your issue for thousands of people to see.

This isn't a new issue here on Beesource. I remember these types of discussions even before there was a consumer reports section.


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## Curtis (Jun 25, 2005)

I still stand by the Chef.
Curtis


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## fire513 (Apr 24, 2008)

*Thanks Chef*

Chef, 
Because of your post I now know that I am not the only one having similar problems with the supplier.

Fire513


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

Dan:

You are totally right. I did call him last night and he said I would need to pay for shipping or the gas to come up there again which I did not think it was fair. I decided to email him for documentation purposes. I then was pissed and posted the letter to Beesource members. Not to gripe or complain but rather to forwarn. 

See, depending on how one reads the consumer reports section. If someone reads posts and then never buys from that company then that is one way to look at it. However, if you read the posts and, in the back of your mind keep what was said and remember that when dealing with that company, it can be a good thing. 

Lets look at what we could learn from my previous posts on this thread. I wanted to:

1) let other people know that if they did buy queens from this company (or any company really) and discover that the queen is a drone layer, do not pinch her or you might not get your money back or replacement. 

2) when dealing with this company directly, if you have a bad queen, you are flipping the bill to either drive back there and home or have it shipped on your dime. 

3) this lays out another pattern for this company, be it good or bad and to be frank, regarding other peoples posts about this company, the track record has not been that good. 

I read the consumer reports in a different way. Lets take the issue of slow shipping with Mann Lake (only for example). If I read that Mann Lake had slow shipping to some people, and I need to place an order, I might ask Mann Lake how long it will be before my order comes and then go from there. 

When all said and done, yes, I might have posted the letter to quickly. Only to forwarn other people of what is happening.


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

It's been three years since I have ordered queens, probably be longer than that before I do again. I certainly will not do business with the last supplier I ordered from.

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192826&highlight=purvis

I learned a lot of lessons with that issue, mainly don't trust them to follow through with their false promises.

To add to your list;
When receiving through the post or Ups, check immediately when you pick them up.
Don't discard the dead, keep them for proof along with all shipping materials.
Don't hesitate to do a charge back on a credit card.
No one will willingly take responsibility even to the point of lying to you.
Never expect to recover shipping charges, the insurance does not cover that.

That being said, it amazes me that queens are as cheap as they are when you consider how much time and effort is put into raising them and checking that they are laying before shipping.


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## JoeMcc (May 15, 2007)

1 of the 4 I got from Cedar Glen had issues but is fine now. I did get a replacement queen but I drove there to get it. Im not as far from them as Chef. I will tell you that the bee probs are not Cedar glens...the customer service issues are. Did they talk to you at all about what happened? I think they learned a big lesson.

I mentioned before that I had received 10 packages from belleville honey, which came from Steve Park. Evey package is doing great and full of brood. I know he doesnt ship them but all us WA beeks can remember that.

Chef how are the trees and bees packages going? Also, lets raise some queens this summer. You think we can get some NUCs to winter?

JoeMcc


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

JoeMcc said:


> I will tell you that the bee probs are not Cedar glens...the customer service issues are. Did they talk to you at all about what happened? I think they learned a big lesson.
> 
> JoeMcc


Any first hand information you can share with us? It didn't sound like the queens Chef got were field proven before they were shipped. Is Cedar Glen reselling someones elses queens?


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## JoeMcc (May 15, 2007)

Bill,

I don't want to say too much because I know that it's not 100% their fault. They took a chance with a new breader and it flopped. In saying that...yes they are using other people as a supplier. Infact, not just one. Some of thier queens are coming from a VERY reputable dealer that proves every queen with 2 FULL deap frames of eggs before caging, not a mini NUC. 

So, in conclusion.... I personally will give Cedar Glen another chance next year. I just wish they would direct every customer issue in a timely manner. 

Joe


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

Yes, Cedar Glens is the middle man and selling someone elses queens. I would think that if the queens were drone layers, they would replace them. I am not willing to drive nor pay the shipping on my bill. They sold me an ineffective product. The one question I would ask other beekeepers is would they flip the bill on a shirt that they bought if it was defiective? I think not. 

Cedar Glens just simply overextended themselves. It is that simple. 

To answer your questions, Joe, the packages from Trees and Bees, most of them, are doing good last time I checked. Four of them did not except the queen, hence buying queens from Cedar Glens. 

I do plan on continuing to graft and raise queens this year. This monday, I plan to make splits and take some notes on potential grafting mothers. I hope the weather turns better.


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## JoeMcc (May 15, 2007)

Chef Isaac said:


> Cedar Glens just simply overextended themselves. It is that simple.


Very true. 

I would like some NWC cells if you get going. I have a half russian Virgin queen at the house I caged Wed night as she was cutting her way out of a cell..... dunno what to do with her. DOnt really want to make any more NUCs....although I do have one hive thats busting at the seams....but its a new queen so hoping they will give me honey and not swarm. I guess it wouldnt hurt to pull a few frames from it tomorrow. 

Yeah, weather... horrible.

Joe


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

>>>>The one question I would ask other beekeepers is would they flip the bill on a shirt that they bought if it was defective? I think not.<<<<

The last defective product I bought from Wal-Mart, I had to take it back and pick up the replacement. I don't think I could get them to bring the replacement to my house, but since you brought it up, I may try to get them to next time. What do you think my chances are of them doing it?


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## JoeMcc (May 15, 2007)

I got a bum queen from www.honeybeegenetics.com last month. They stood behind their queen and sent me a new one....but yeah...i had to pay shipping. I guess im ok with that since it was only $4.80 for priority mail....but a bit risky to ship that way and i dont think HBG would back that shipping method at all. I took a chance....and she looked great when she got here.

FYI...thats where the virgin queen came from... supercedure of the bum queen.

Joe


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

Iddee: True point. I would think, however, that if you ordered something from Walmart and had it shipped to you that was defective, you would not want to pay shipping to send it back. Look at your spouse buying clothes from a company. They order off line and do nto fit? No problem. Send it back on their bill.


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

I must have misunderstood....Did you order the queens and have them shipped?


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

I picked up the queens. I drove an hour and a half out to pick them up. They were drone layers. i would expect them to mail me some queens on their dime, not mine.


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

If I needed queens bad enough to drive 3 hours round trip to get them, I think I would pay the shipping to save my hives and try to get it settled later, rather than let my hives go down the tubes.


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

hives are already down the tubes. I pinched them and combined. But instead of wasting the money and saying "well, that is ok", I want replacements. But I am not willing to pay for the gas or shipping on these. If one does this, then the consumer is saying "it is ok to send me crap. I will pay to get better stuff sent to me". Why do that? It is not right.


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## riverrat (Jun 3, 2006)

Chef Just curious here. I see In another thread you have queens for sale. http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219186 Why not use them to requeen the hives instead of combining. If I saw a guy selling queens in one thread and banging on a guy about bad queens he just bought in another. I would be less inclined to do business with him. After all if the queens he is selling is not good enough for him. I sure wouldnt want them either. Not knocking you just wanted to point out we can all be guilty of bad business practices. And most generally the honest business man may not be aware of it until it is pointed out.


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

Riv:

Good point however, all queen breeders bring in new stock, do they not? I have 8 queens in mating nucs right now but decided to bring in some new stock for this situation. Plus, it is still a little early here (actually, it is the weather holding me back) to graft and did not want to take them out of the mating nucs until I have some more queen cells going.


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## Camp9 (Feb 7, 2006)

I've been in Cedar Glens corner up until now. I've had a credit coming on the bees I ordered back in April, and after many phone call and e mails not being returned, and after speaking with them 5 time and having them assure me they would take care of it that day, I haven't seen any credit to this date. For the most part I'm pleased with the bees I received, and I would recomend anyone buying bees from them to pick them up direct. I would highly advise that you don't give them your credit card and pay by check or money order if your having them shipped.

Camp


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## chief (Apr 19, 2005)

I bought some queens from Cedar Glen last year. I spent some time talking with them and they admitted that they had just started keeping bees the year before. They had some experience in the distant past but really have just gotten in the game. The queens were from Olivarez and turned out OK but I can’t imagine a supplier so inexperienced being able to pull off a successful bee business without some serious problems due to lack of know-how.


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## JoeMcc (May 15, 2007)

Well.... I just ordered a couple more NWC queens from Cedar Glen. I will let you know how the whole thing goes. 



JoeMcc


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