# Varroa



## Andrew Dewey (Aug 23, 2005)

Fogging with what? FGMO is mostly regarded as ineffective and I'm not sure what else you would apply by fogger. 27 per day at this time of year is not terrible but it is not superb either. If you are looking for a soft treatment consider one of the Thymol products.


----------



## PDG honey (Jul 31, 2010)

With that small of a mite count I would just pull the queen to stop a brood cycle. If possible if you have another hive to split off of. Place her there. You can graft one or two cells and place in the infested hive. Hope this helps.


----------



## luka (May 23, 2012)

I still have honey on and we'll be extracting after most of the goldenrod flow
after the extraction i will be sugar shakes but im going to stay away from thymol products for now 
Im fogging wi MO which i know is said to be inaffective by some but i've heard from a number of experienced Beeks that it will bring down the mite count to some extent


----------



## luka (May 23, 2012)

Dewey do you have any experience with vaporizing


----------



## Rick 1456 (Jun 22, 2010)

Please forgive me,,,,,,you don't treat just "because". Sorry, you do what you think best


----------



## SeanStuart (Feb 25, 2012)

Rick 1456 said:


> Please forgive me,,,,,,you don't treat just "because". Sorry, you do what you think best


clarification ??


----------



## Rick 1456 (Jun 22, 2010)

1. They are his bees
2. It isn't my place to tell him or anyone what to do and it isn't posted in the treatment free section
3. I write before I think some times
4. 27 seems "not too bad" especially since indications/ sounds like the hive is doing well and other wise healthy.
What if: the mites seen are because the bees are dealing with them? 
the treatment interrupts that? 
I mean no disrespect. IMO, there are folks that would be happy with that situation and not treat. I would. It all boils down to what you believe is best.


----------



## luka (May 23, 2012)

no offence taken its just that right now two of the hives are survivor hives from two years past with no thymal or any other treatments at all actually, and three seem very populous and healthy hives. Also i want to see how i can handle the mites with just sugar shakes, fogging, and vaporizing with which people have had good results in the past


----------



## Rick 1456 (Jun 22, 2010)

I understand luka,,,,,but why???? Why subject your apparently healthy hives to such an environment of chems? Why handle mites that need not be handled. Maybe I'm missing something. To each their own.


----------



## luka (May 23, 2012)

thats exactly it Rick 1456 i would consider fogging with mineral oil and doing sugar shake treatments much less of chem subjection then giving them thymal products even though its considered all natrual its still a chem


----------



## Rick 1456 (Jun 22, 2010)

Understood I mis interpreted what was being said. Not unusual for me I hope you never have to.


----------



## Keth Comollo (Nov 4, 2011)

Why subject your bees to ineffective treatments? FGMO has enough research on it that proves is is hardly effective. It was all the rage a number of years ago but that faded fast and I don't know any successful beeks that use it anymore. Mineral oil, IMHO, is no more natural than Thymol or Formic. And I wouldn't want my honey to have mineral oil in it so, if you must have supers on, Formic and Hopguard are about your only bet other than sugar drops which, again, are not proven to help that much. If your supers are on and you don't want to use Formic or Hopguard then hit them with sugar until those supers come off and you can use a truly effective treatment.


----------



## luka (May 23, 2012)

FBM uses it along with vaporizing


----------



## Keth Comollo (Nov 4, 2011)

FBM also states that is isn't very effective but I wonder why he needs to use it with his small cell bees.


----------



## johng (Nov 24, 2009)

First let me say good job on even doing a mite count!! Lots of bee keepers never even know what their mite counts are. Your mite counts are middle of the road. Not good but, not too bad yet. The mites normally get the hives going into the second year. A lot of new bee keepers watch their new hives grow and prosper the first year and never notice the mite counts continue to grow. Keep an eye on the mite counts once they get close to 50-60 in a 24hr period you need to do something about it. But, keep in mind you need to give the bees time to recover from such a mite count. you can't wait until right before winter to treat, you need to treat in time to give the bees time to raise a couple rounds of brood before winter sets in. 

In my short bee keeping experience I have learned that it is fairly easy to keep new hives nucs and packages alive and prospering. But, it is a little harder to keep 2-3 year old hives alive. I am pretty sure this is because of the mites and the problems they pass on to the bees. JMHO


----------



## Keth Comollo (Nov 4, 2011)

mineral oil
n.
1. Any of various light hydrocarbon oils, especially a distillate of petroleum.
2. A refined distillate of petroleum.


----------



## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

Where I live 27 would be a great number. Just hit them with powdered sugar a couple times, & the number will be lower.
I don't get concerned until the # is well over 50


----------



## luka (May 23, 2012)

Keth i see your point after with the ingredients of mineral oil but it fog that is fanned out of the hive by the bees in mins.
Also whats your opinion on a 27mites/24h seens you live in new England i've asked MP and he said it was high but others are not sayin so, more opinions the better i guess
And whats your thoughts on vaporizing with oxalic acid i've it works well


----------



## Keth Comollo (Nov 4, 2011)

Putting aside it's effectiveness mineral oil fogging causes the mites to lose their grip. The reason is because the bees are covered with a thin coat of oil. If the bees are covered then so are the cappings in your supers and will get mixed with the honey during extraction. 

If I had 27 mites drop in 24 hours I would treat with formic right away personally. I am around 15 over a 72 hour period right now on the few hives that I have a screen bottom board on. I will be treating all my hives regardless as soon as the temperature range looks okay for it.

As for vaporizing with oxalic I have no experience with it. MP says he tried it for quite awhile and was not impressed at all with the results.


----------



## luka (May 23, 2012)

how effective is formic acid


----------



## luka (May 23, 2012)

and how do you apply it


----------



## luka (May 23, 2012)

I've from many that vaporizing oxalic acid is one the best treatments out there considering the low cost rate


----------



## julysun (Apr 25, 2012)

In my short bee keeping experience I have learned that it is fairly easy to keep new hives nucs and packages alive and prospering. But, it is a little harder to keep 2-3 year old hives alive. I am pretty sure this is because of the mites and the problems they pass on to the bees. JMHO[/QUOTE] Johng

I take this as a wake up call John, fits my situation exactly. I will treat with Hopguard before winter. Thanks! :applause:


----------



## Keth Comollo (Nov 4, 2011)

Research studies show about 90-95% knockdown efficacy for formic treatments properly administered. 

I believe the numbers for mineral oil fogging are something like 40% and oxalic fogging around 50% but I might need to dig through some research papers to verify this. 

Apiguard thymol treatments are similar to formic I believe but cannot be on when you have honey supers. I will probably use Apiguard in spring if needed as it seems to be less disruptive to queen production and brood death than formic.


----------



## Keth Comollo (Nov 4, 2011)

luka said:


> and how do you apply it


If you buy a tub of MAQS the instructions are included.


----------



## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

Keth Comollo said:


> I believe the numbers for mineral oil fogging are something like 40% and oxalic fogging around 50% but I might need to dig through some research papers to verify this.


I don't know anyone who does oxalic fogging. Many do vaporization. I find that I get about 90% with oxalic vaporization 3 -4X a week apart starting in the middle of august. I get good winter bees that way.


----------



## luka (May 23, 2012)

camero7 said:


> I don't know anyone who does oxalic fogging. Many do vaporization. I find that I get about 90% with oxalic vaporization 3 -4X a week apart starting in the middle of august. I get good winter bees that way.


Do you do a treatment every 3-4 weeks or 3-4 every week?


----------



## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

I do one treatment a week for 3 -4 weeks.


----------



## luka (May 23, 2012)

thanks for the great info Comollo even though i think the numbers of using oxalic are higher then you have there.
Regardless im definatly considering Formic (especially after talking to MP) as well as the other options. Right now i do have Apiguard in my bee shack so what i think ill do is after i take the supers off ill do another mite count and after that treat two hives with apiguard and two hives ill do vaporizing with oxalic and see the results.
As for while the supers are on i think since Im already into the 2nd week of my planned fogging/sugar shake treatment ill see it to the end and when i take the supers off and do a mite count if Im not satisfied with the results ill have Formic in mind most likely for next year.


----------

