# FITTING QUEEN REARING INTO A WEEKEND SCHEDULE?



## JustHoney (Feb 18, 2015)

Hello bee source 

Any other beekeeping weekend warriors have this dilemma? 

I work in the city and can only get to my bees on weekends (100 miles away)
So don't have the luxury of being able to get to my bees as often as I'd like… 

My question is if the queen cells are only just sealed 4 days after grafting, would the cells be TOO delicate and fragile to move and put in nucs 7 days after grafting? or is that cutting it too fine?
Most books and documentation I’ve read recommend 10 days after grafting to make up nucs/transfer QC's. 

So I'm trying to fit my queen rearing into a weekend schedule. I’m planning on using the cloake board method - setting Queen builder up and put grafts in on Sat/Sun , the following weekend set up nucs/transfer queen cells in nucs...would this be WAY too soon?

Any advice or input would be greatly appreciated

Thanks in advance 
Justin

FYI. I live on the east coast of South Africa and currently running 50 langsroth hives with about 130 brood boxes to fill, I'm trying to rear queen bees here with African bees (Scuttelata) so these queens hatches on a 15 day schedule (a day sooner than EHB) so there’s that too...


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

here is a thread from the commercial section, Ian was trying to fit raising queens into a weekend schedule, I don't remember the conclusion if he actually did it or not, but the discussion may help.

http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...le-Queen-rearing-Calander-from-Glenn-Apiaries


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## JustHoney (Feb 18, 2015)

wildbranch2007 said:


> here is a thread from the commercial section, Ian was trying to fit raising queens into a weekend schedule, I don't remember the conclusion if he actually did it or not, but the discussion may help.
> 
> http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...le-Queen-rearing-Calander-from-Glenn-Apiaries


Thanks!


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## My-smokepole (Apr 14, 2008)

Something I copy from Ray 
Queen making by RayMarler


In a 5 frame two story nuc hive, I make sure there is one frame of mostly eggs in the center of the bottom box, with a frame of mostly pollen on one side of it and a frame of mostly open nectar on the other side of it. The two outer frames, I like to have sealed and emerging brood, but one of those can be a frame of stores. Other frame arrangements can be made, depending on what you have in the nuc, but the one frame with a lot of eggs is needed for sure.

The rest of the frames and the queen go in the top box, with a queen excluder in between the two boxes. I set this up sometime in the mid to late afternoon. Then the next day in the mid morning, I set the top box off to the side of the bottom box, with it's entrance turned 180 degrees so it is facing the other direction.

Now the next day in the late afternoon, after 36 hours or close to it, I take and put the queens box back on top of the queenless box, with a queen excluder in between the two boxes. From being queenless for 36 hours, the bees get in queen cell building mode, and I find that a few queen cells of good quality will be built in the bottom box after being joined with excluder. The bees in the bottom box get most of the activity as the entrance is a lower entrance in the bottom box, and the queen is not there, she is pinned above the excluder, so her pheromones are not strong in the bottom box now. So I think they build cells as if replacing a failing queen.

Now in 9 days after joining the boxes, I move the bottom box to a new stand, and give the box left in place another box on top to expand up into, as they will now get the field force and they have the laying queen. Doing this makes the box moved away lose the field force and reduces the population, so that in one or two more days when the queen cells emerge, there is much less chance of them swarming. At the time of moving this box away to a new stand, I now have the option of cutting out queen cells for making other splits, if I so desire.

There are a few variations on this theme, but this is one way I've used to create just a few cells so that I can make a split with low probability of swarming happening. I call it an enhanced walk away split, as it gives nice well built queen cells with out grafting and not too much intense manipulations. Also, you can modify the timings in this so that it can easily be done on a weekend schedule by moving the bottom box to a new stand in 7 or 8 days later instead of the 9 days. Makes it very convenient for us weekend beekeepers!


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## JustHoney (Feb 18, 2015)

Very helpful thanks  
Makes sense, will give it a go to begin with. 
I'll just have to be ESPECIALLY careful when handling those cells just 7 days after grafting - as that is at the end stage of their sensitive developmental phase. But then African queens develop 1 day earlier than EHB so maybe it will be ok.. I still really like the idea of a cloake board to make a queenless upper colony and a queen right lower colony with bare minimal disturbance to the bees - instead of moving boxes around etc. (especially in the case of African bees and their tendency to abscond! Will make a mini 5 frame cloake board and try it out with two 5 frame nukes stacked on top of one another as an experiment.

Thankyou and have a good weekend everyone! 

As a matter of interest to anyone keen to try this too I found this video of a big Australian queen breeder/exporter using the cloake Board method:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QndSwWYA-oM


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

JustHoney said:


> Hello bee source
> 
> Any other beekeeping weekend warriors have this dilemma?
> 
> ...


The short answer is yes, they can be handled 7 days after grafting. Just be aware that you are handling them at a very delicate stage. The tricky part is, they really need to be placed directly on the side of a frame of brood to insure they stay warm. Be careful that you keep them vertical and when placing them that you don't squeeze or crush them as the sides are quite soft.


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## JustHoney (Feb 18, 2015)

Will do, thanks Jim for the advice. 

Most commercial beekeepers here in South Africa trap swarms on a large scale to fill dead outs. I worked for a full time beekeeper here and he had teams putting up 3000 + catch hives 10 feet up in the massive commercial Eucalptus forests (E. Grandis & Saligna gum AKA flooded/Sydney ******* from Australia). 

Due to the African bees strong swarming tendencies all boxes are filling in a matter of weeks (April/May) In fact swarms would try move in while the trap boxes which were sitting on the truck or even when we were up the ladder busy trying the boxes to the trees LOL Anyway because bees are so easy to catch here, queen rearing is not widely practiced for increase or improving stock, which I plan to work on.

Thanks you again - much appreciated!

Cheers
Justin


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Nice to hear from you Justin. Beesource becomes a richer place when we get to hear fascinating first hand accounts like this. I had no idea swarm catching was done on that scale. Start a thread on your experiences especially if you have some pictures.


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## JustHoney (Feb 18, 2015)

Here are a few pics I could find.
A lot of old used equipment is used for trapping here (bees prefer it) old combs,propolis is melted and smeared/painted all over the entrances to attract swarms. 
Some of the catch boxes (like the one in the photo in the tree) are made out of old tea chests from Kenya or India (cut in half) the tea companies throw them away.
Tea chests, some commercial beekeepers here discovered are exactly the same size as a langsroth hive, very light weight and take 11 frames. Boxes are dipped in waxol last for years. 
All hives are strapped with steel strapping and tied on the trees with wire and cable, Most frames are wired with thin strips of foundation and a couple old black combs either side. Once all the trap hives are caught they are put in big holding yards with 100's of hives as pictured. These are then taken out to separate apiaries of 50 or so hives each. 

Theft & Vandalism is a BIG problem here so most apiaries are guarded during the flow + heavily fenced with razor wire. 
Once full we were in a race to get the traps out of the plantations and into the holding yard before the local tribes got to them Lol 
After the gum flow the bees are moved to aloe, sunflower, Cosmos and other species Eucalyptus trees. 

Driving around at in the middle of the night in Africa collecting trap hives or moving bees was VERY interesting – We saw honey badgers, antelope (Kudu, bushbuck,Nyala etc) and all kind of wild life wandering about in the headlight of the truck! Heard a few stories of beekeepers here having seen elephant and hippo working at night. Hippos are VERY dangerous! unpredictible and fast, kill more people in africa than any other animal.


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

However does keep track of hives set out like that


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## JustHoney (Feb 18, 2015)

LOL  the reason they are set them out like that is African bees are VERY prone to drifting. More so than EHB, normally we set them out in big circles, straight lines are a huge no no as the end colonies horde all the bees and the middle colonies in a straight row dwindle badly.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

Cells that are only 48 hours post graft (not capped) travel very well.

Graft in a starter, and use your splits as finishers. If you can time it right, you can place two cells in each split, and harvest one of them when ripe.


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## Stephenpbird (May 22, 2011)

That extractor looks very interesting...


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## marshmasterpat (Jun 26, 2013)

Stephenbird - Exactly what I was thinking. They are extracting a super at a time. WOW.


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