# Nail gun or wide crown stapler to assemble supers?



## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

I use 1/4 inch crown staples to assemble supers with a 1 and 1/2 staple.........Maybe should use a larger crown but it's what I got and works for me...........


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## tefer2 (Sep 13, 2009)

I use 7/16 crown staples, two inch long for putting boxes together.Most of my staplers are Senco brand


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## BeeTax (Dec 27, 2011)

I switched to a 7/16 crown stapler with 2 inch staples and glue. They seem pretty secure but time will tell.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

Cement coated nails are for my money still the best fastener for boxes. I use my crown stapler on frames and to rapidly put together my boxes and then go back and nail them with 8 penny cement coated. Both fasteners provide a different strength. If I had thousands to build, I thi nk I would use a nailer with cement coated.


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## Jonathan4Bees (Jan 29, 2012)

it aint much faster but sure sturdy i use titebond II glue and 2" exterior screws i dont have to worry about them coming loose like nails will once in a while and corrosive resistent and u can barely move them so make sure your box is square before you put the screws to it.


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## Tom B (May 11, 2011)

Agree with Jonathan4Bees, Titebond III and screws. I use a battery powered drill to drive the screws and it is fast and effortless.


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## Riverratbees (Feb 10, 2010)

Screws rule that is the only way to go tap tap with a hammer and zip zip and your done with screws.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

That is a lot of fairly expensive screws. I suppose coupled with the glue they are good but screws don't have great shear strength.


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## tommyt (Aug 7, 2010)

I just did a half pallet used Tight b 2 and 1+3/4 staples
I'm confident this will work for years to come.
I shot staples in soffits and a lot of other out door decor wood 
they have been holding up for many years,Paint is a good thing 
I would bet without it, the failing would start early


Tommyt


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## peacekeeperapiaries (Jun 23, 2009)

depends how many you are building and how much you want to spend. We used to use the 1/4 inch crown stapler for frames and a 1/2 inch crown stapler for boxes...thats what we had. Now we use a SENCO 3/8 crown stapler (1 1/2 inch staples) for both frames and boxes...except when we have a bunch of boxes to build, then I let dad use the nice light 3/8 crown gun while I break out the heavier 1/2 inch crown gun and we both shoot those boxes together. Oh yeah we still glue EVERYTHING with Titebond 3.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

I buy them completely built all with nails.


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## carlinmo (Jun 6, 2010)

Titebond glue and 2" thin style TORX head deck screws. The TORX head screws practically drive themselves. I have a box assembly frame that pushes the long sides into the short sides. The screws pull the long sides into the short sides. I only screw along the long sides in the predrilled holes


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

I use glue and wide crown staples. They go together fast and hold forever.


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## Keth Comollo (Nov 4, 2011)

Titebond III and 1.5 inch 1/4 crown staples here.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

I think a screw has less of a chance of backing out for end grain applications and I don't think glue has a long term effectiveness for something that is subject to the elements so I don't use glue. I have used an exterior caulk on the end grain to prevent water from seeping in. Silicone might be good but more of a pain to clean up.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

There hasn't been a single time when I needed to run a screw into endgrain.

Good glue is weather proof/resistant. Most people will admit to that.


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## twgreen3 (Aug 22, 2008)

I use brads and titebond III, haven't had a box fail yet. I know the brads won't hold well and that's why I glue them.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

I have used wide crown X 2" galvanized staples, hand driven 6d and a coil nailer.
I prefer the coil nailer! The Makita coil nailer weighs 5.0 pounds and is easy the use.
1. Coil nails. 2" X 0.090" galvanized plain.
2. Coil nails. 2" X 0.09" Ring Shank.
Believe me, the ring shank nails will not move from where they are driven!


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

BMAC said:


> I buy them completely built all with nails.


How are they assembled?


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## 2Sox (Dec 17, 2011)

I glue with Titebond ll, clamp the ends together and I use 1/4" crown staples x 1 1/2 inch deep. Seems to be fine. If I were putting together a few boxes, I might try screws and such. But I'm putting together 100 mediums this season and I can't spare the time to do that. An artisan I know who makes handmade fine cherry furniture has told me that good glue actually holds better than the actual wood itself. I tend to agree.


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## ralittlefield (Apr 25, 2011)

2Sox said:


> An artisan I know who makes handmade fine cherry furniture has told me that good glue actually holds better than the actual wood itself. I tend to agree.


I agree with that. I either clamp untill glue has set or use a couple of nails at each joint.


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## Daddy'sBees (Jul 1, 2010)

I use Titebond llI and a brad nailer with 1&1/4 inch brads(18 gauge), on my finger joints. I also brush a thin coat of thinned glue, on the ends for extra protection of the grain ends before painting. These joints never fail!!!


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

As stated above, good clue (TB III) is all you really need. The fasteners only need to hold the wood tight until the glue sets. 

An inexpensive air stapler/brad nailer works the best and is really fast. 

Screws are overkill. I have tried them and split the wood because I didnt drill a pilot hole. And it takes too long. I guess if you are only 2 boxes to assemble, it would be OK.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

2Sox said:


> An artisan I know who makes handmade fine cherry furniture has told me that good glue actually holds better than the actual wood itself. I tend to agree.


When a glue joint fails it is the wood that breaks away from the glue not the glue shearing in most cases. Fine furniture should be kept where the moisture doesn't vary too much. That isn't the case for bee equipment so as a result the joints will probably fail. If the joint is not dependant on glue, for instance screwed and not nailed it might survive longer. Although a box rosin coated nail will hold very well and can be shot from a air gun. The head of the nail is the weak point that could rust and break off if not protected.


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## 2Sox (Dec 17, 2011)

Acebird said:


> Fine furniture should be kept where the moisture doesn't vary too much. That isn't the case for bee equipment...


Good point Acebird. However, I'm very confident that my equipment will do just fine, glued and stapled the way I have them. In the event that I have a problem that can't be repaired, I guess I'll just have to replace what's broken. Not too concerned, though.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

Or just re-glue / re-fasten the boxes if you see a problem after several years of use.

It's not like you are going to have a catastrophic shear failure at a box-end joint.


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

I just hand nail and glue with Titebond both frames and boxes at this point because I don't have that many to do at one time. On my boxes I use the 2 1/2" hot dipped galvanized spiral shank nails, they won't be backing out anytime soon. 
I would like to know of a good stapler/nailer that I can use for frames, I just bought a small air compressor recently and I may as well get something to make putting frames together a little easier, just don't want to spend alot of money on it though. John


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

I should add that a typical commercial box has a finger joint as opposed to a butt joint. I see no problem just nailing or stapling a finger joint because the nails end up perpendicular to each other. It is the butt joint that I would recommend using screws.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

jmgi said:


> On my boxes I use the 2 1/2" hot dipped galvanized spiral shank nails, they won't be backing out anytime soon.


Box nails were invented for making boxes. Who'd a thunk. The nail you speak of may cause more splitting which will cause the wood to rot faster. I can't be certain but I think the nails you speak of are meant for pressure treated decking where splitting does not increase rot due to the treatment of the wood.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

And _box joints_ do away with the need for box nails or any other type of hardware fasteners.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

In a moisture controlled environment. Take any drawer that has a simple box joint, or dovetail joint and expose it to the sun and rain. Let me know what you find when the glue gives out. I would not omit a fastener for a beehive box but I am not surprised that you would.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

I like livin' on the edge Ace. Livin' on the edge.

Besides those nails are expesive and would have blown my 10-cent budget, so I had to cut them out.



~=[,,_,,]:3


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

You get them free in the reclaimed lumber all you have to do is straighten them out. My father taught me how to do it when I was five. I learned pretty fast after my thumbs healed up the first time I did it.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

Acebird said:


> In a moisture controlled environment. Take any drawer that has a simple box joint, or dovetail joint and expose it to the sun and rain. Let me know what you find when the glue gives out. I would not omit a fastener for a beehive box but I am not surprised that you would.


AB,

I have at least on nuc box that is ONLY glued ... no fasteners. Oh! It has rabbeted joints as well. It's my little test of Titebond III.


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## MJuric (Jul 12, 2010)

* but screws don't have great shear strength.*

The shear strength of anything is dictated by the type and area of material. As long as the material is the same and the area of the minor dia of the screw is the same as the dia of the nail, staple whatever the shear strength is the same.

~Matt


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## fish_stix (May 17, 2009)

The spiral shank, hot dipped nails are actually for nailing siding and should do real well for hive boxes. Definitely not going to pull out anytime soon. And they're smaller in diameter than either common or box nails so less problem with splitting the wood.


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

fishstix, that's all I have ever used with no problems splitting, I do pilot drill first though. John


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

fish_stix said:


> The spiral shank, hot dipped nails are actually for nailing siding and should do real well for hive boxes. Definitely not going to pull out anytime soon.


Yes these would be good. I was thinking of a heavier nail that has a spiral twist. Don't the siding nails have a very small head though?


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## Broke-T (Jul 9, 2008)

We also use galvanized ring shank nails, either 6 or 7 penny, to build several hundered boxes per year. We used to use a 1/4 inch crown stapler with 11/2 staples but each one leaves an indention where it buries into the wood. If you dont get these filled with paint they will hold water and increase chance of rot. Building with nails takes longer to but is quicker to paint so total time is about the same.

johnny


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Long before nail guns were so popular they were used in industry. You can buy a framing nail-er that will shoot rosin coated nails. You can set the sink depth and avoid the sink hole that you speak of.
Does anyone have a spec on these ring nails? I am still thinking they have a small head and would pull through the wood easily.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

2/24/2012
Some information on a good product.
http://www.epinions.com/review/Makita_Siding_Nailer_AN611/content_399166770820 The Nail Gun: 

The AN611 is extremely well built and thought out. It is also extremely light at only five pounds. It is made up of what appears to be magnesium (body), plastic (coil housing), rubber (grips), and steel (nail feeder and barrel). This nailer shoots 1 1/4" to 2 1/2" wire collated coil nails or 1 1/4" to 2" plastic collated coil nails as per manufacturers specifications. Depending on the size of the nails there is a height adjuster built into the coil housing. There are some other nice features built into this nailer. The first is a simple tool less nail depth adjustment knob to quickly change the depth of the nail drive. Another feature is a 3 way switch which can: lock the trigger, nail one nail at a time by depressing the trigger, or nail continuously by depressing the trigger down. Another feature is a metal belt clip to hang the nail gun up when not in use. The nail gun also has a nice exhaust feature in which the exhaust cover can turn 360 degrees so you don't have to have compressed air blown in your face. Finally the nailer has a non-marring nose built on it.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

Re:
Does anyone have a spec on these ring nails?
RING SHANK
15º Coil
Diamond point
Bright
Galvanized
2" X .090"
300 nails /coil
30 coils/case
The head of a 6d galvanized nail for hand hammering is the same size as the 6d coil nail.
No, they will not pull throught the wood. The rings go to the nail point!


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

What is the head diameter? The shank will not pull because of the rings but with a small head diameter it will pull through soft pine and leave the shank in the other piece. I find this very true for finish nailers as opposed to the old fashion hammer driven finish nails.
I have a 1/4 crown stapler and you can set the depth so it doesn't bury the staple. I suspect the larger staplers have that feature too. If your pressure is set too high it will go beyond the depth setting. Remember you are nailing soft wood not hard wood like pallets and skids.


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## Rather-b-beekeeping (May 7, 2011)

Wow! I haven't logged in for a couple days and was surprised to see all this feedback. Thanks for the input! I do like screws, as some of you, have mentioned (many of my boxes have a combination of screws and nails, as I have a natural tendency for overkill when it comes to strength...LOL), but I am more inclined to use a stapler for speed. Sounds like many of you are happy with the 7/16 or 1/2 wide crown staplers with 2inch staples. I think I will consider one of those two. In the past I haven't really used glue on my boxes, but I may start after hearing how much Titebond III is used and liked. I may also still drop a few screws in my deep brood boxes for extra strength.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

Let me put it this way - You can do all of the theorizing you want about the shear strength of nails, screws, and other fasteners, but once you buy an air stapler/nailer, you will find that you will loose the hammer pretty quickly. 

Who was it who said, "If the only tool that you have is an air stapler, every problem begins to look as if it can be solved with an air stapler"?


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

... and with box-joints, I would consider the shear strength of fasteners
to be insignificant. 

Box-joints... as in finger joints.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

BeeCurious said:


> ... and with box-joints, I would consider the shear strength of fasteners
> to be insignificant.


I am still trying to envision a boxed-joined super failing do to shear stress.


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## Rather-b-beekeeping (May 7, 2011)

Nabber86 said:


> Let me put it this way - You can do all of the theorizing you want about the shear strength of nails, screws, and other fasteners, but once you buy an air stapler/nailer, you will find that you will loose the hammer pretty quickly.
> 
> Who was it who said, "If the only tool that you have is an air stapler, every problem begins to look as if it can be solved with an air stapler"?



Nabber! That is too hilarious, but sooooo true! My Dad was visiting me over the holidays and we did some building and remodeling around my house and garage. We found so many uses for the stapler that we were joking about it too......LOL!


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

I hear it doesn't work so good for intalling ceramic and glass tiles.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

Do you keep your bees in a ceramic box?


(check the thread title, genius).


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