# Nuc prices for 2016



## kevindsingleton (Jun 6, 2014)

woodsy said:


> $150.00 for a strong 5 frame Nuc here locally. Includes reusable box. Carnies or Italians.
> Last two i bought for $125.00 from a different seller were 4 frames and one was pretty weak (my fault for not looking in the box), plus had
> to return the boxes (pain) or forfeit $50.00.
> Price sound about right or is this price dictated by inflation ? Demand ?


I paid $125 for a cardboard box containing five strong frames, last year, in western PA. My local seller also makes sure that his buyers come late in the evening, so there are more field bees in the nuc. I'd gladly pay $150 for a good nuc with a known good, survivor stock, queen.


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## e-spice (Sep 21, 2013)

Are these for overwintered nucs? If so, I would consider charging more for them.


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## woodsy (Mar 3, 2013)

They do not say overwintered nucs so probably not.


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

e-spice said:


> Are these for overwintered nucs? If so, I would consider charging more for them.


What should someone pay for a 5-6 bar overwintered nuc with a treatment free queen on natural comb?


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## Grace&Mercy (Jun 26, 2015)

"Good" Over wintered, local 5 frame, early release nucs should sell for $150-$175 from reputable suppliers.

The key here is that not all nucs are the same. I've seen people selling -what they call- ("5 frame nucs" with 2 frames w/brood, 2 frames w/food, bees to cover 3 frames, a "new" queen that has just started laying this week and a foundation frame for "expansion"). IMO This would only be the beginings of a 3 frame nuc but does not yet qualify as a true nucleus.

Ask the questions before you buy. Ask for references of other customers. Any reputable producer should be willing to stand behind their product and promote truth in advertising.


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## mahobee (Apr 24, 2013)

I paid Sam Comfort $250 for an overwintered top bar nuc, in a 2' travel box. It had about 8-9 frames of natural comb.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

$250, nice. Good for Sam!  :thumbsup:

How have they performed for you, mahobee?


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## mahobee (Apr 24, 2013)

I'm always happy to help the beekeeping industry!! In my defense, it was in usable equipment, not just cardboard!

It is my first top bar hive. I believe they went into winter strong and healthy. I experimented last year with 3 nucs from reputable breeders. The best result were the Russians I bought from Walters in WV. Sam was #2. I'd rather not say who #3 was, because they were great for the 4 weeks before they swarmed, so I don't want to disparage the breeder.

I cannot suggest strongly enough that if someone out there is going to put in the time, effort and money, don't be stingy and drive the 2-3 hours it may take to pick up a high quality Nuc from a reputable breeder. The difference in price from 125-200 should be irrelevant.


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## Grace&Mercy (Jun 26, 2015)

> I cannot suggest strongly enough that if someone out there is going to put in the time, effort and money, don't be stingy and drive the 2-3 hours it may take to pick up a high quality Nuc from a reputable breeder. The difference in price from 125-200 should be irrelevant.
> 
> 
> > I couldn't agree more. When one considers the rising costs of package bees and the corresponding failure rates, it doesn't take much to realize the great value comparison of high quality 5 frame nucs vs packages.


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## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

The active bee club folks get my strong deep nucs or medium starter hives for 135-145 (the friends and family discount).

The classified ad cold-call folks get quoted 150 for the basic nuc. It either an easy sale, or "Okay, do you know of any swarms I can have for free?"

The folks that want "8 frame Treatment-free mediums on foundationless" get quoted 175 and up due to the extreme scarcity of the bees and comb from my small TF apiary.

I've been known to add 20-25 to the pricing if the telephone vibe is that the hobbyist is going to ask for loads of call-back help and demand replacement after they kill off the colony.


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## Grace&Mercy (Jun 26, 2015)

Sweet Wings Honey Bee Farm in Mooresville, NC is the place for me. Specializing in high quality, local, over wintered, survivor stock nucs. sold for $170


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## Michael B (Feb 6, 2010)

I sell strong Carni spring 5 frame deep nucs in travel box for $150. I sold out in a month. I feel prices should be higher.


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## kaizen (Mar 20, 2015)

Michael B said:


> I sell strong Carni spring 5 frame deep nucs in travel box for $150. I sold out in a month. I feel prices should be higher.


Agree mine were 150 last year. they were good and supposedly overwintered. Have to think they will be at 175 to 200 this year.


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## D Coates (Jan 6, 2006)

Considering packages go for +/-$125, I'm amazed 5-frame nucs don't go for $175 to $200. An accepted laying queen, brood in various stages, 5 drawn frames with various amounts of stores. It's an actual functioning hive. This is versus, 3lbs of bees and an unproven queen.... Soooo many things can go wrong with a package and if any do, your $125 went out the door.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

D Coates said:


> Considering packages go for +/-$125, I'm amazed 5-frame nucs don't go for $175 to $200. An accepted laying queen, brood in various stages, 5 drawn frames with various amounts of stores. It's an actual functioning hive. This is versus, 3lbs of bees and an unproven queen.... Soooo many things can go wrong with a package and if any do, your $125 went out the door.


Absolutely. Coupled with the fact that a package gets weaker and weaker every day. A nuc gets stronger and stronger. Packages are easier to produce in mass, though, which is probably part of why they are so popular (also they do perform their job well, honestly). I think the idea of getting disease in nucs was a big deal in the past. Or made to be a big deal at least.


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## Andrey Limonchenko (Mar 29, 2013)

Grace&Mercy said:


> ...survivor stock...


 Sounds like everybody nowdays is using the "survivor stock" term. Has anybody heard of a breeder selling stock that did not survive?


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## Grace&Mercy (Jun 26, 2015)

Andrey Limonchenko said:


> Sounds like everybody nowdays is using the "survivor stock" term. Has anybody heard of a breeder selling stock that did not survive?



:applause:Well actually yes. Can a queen that was grafted and mated in April be sold in May as a "survivor"?


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## Andrey Limonchenko (Mar 29, 2013)

Grace&Mercy said:


> :applause:Well actually yes. Can a queen that was grafted and mated in April be sold in May as a "survivor"?


I totally agree with you, It's a sad story. I did "help" one of my friends get a nuc two years ago end of June for $135 that had some eggs capped half-pulled frame of foundation, one frame of bees, a queen and some liquid. All I could do was close my eyes and tell him to get it because there were no alternatives. The nuc collapsed before the cold came that year.

A year after that I "helped" him again by sourcing a package, which absconded in couple of months. We're still friends.  and he still wants to keep bees, but the burn rate is high.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Here's mine. Not advertising here, my nucs are local pick up only & I have plenty of customers. Just showing you what I do.
Most are over wintered.

http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/grd/5334215247.html


Over wintering queen varieties for those nucs:

Mountian line:

__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content



















USDA Pol-Line / Carniolan Hybrid:









Glenn Carniolan Line:










Here's how I end up with surplus mated queens for making up some of the earliest nucs:

http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...n-overwintering-40-mating-nucs-on-mini-frames

That is an older thread and needs to be updated somewhat, but is still a good starting point.


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## [email protected] (Aug 1, 2004)

My strong five-frame nucs go for $170 in May. Overwintered nucs for $210 and up. Five frame nucs contain at least 3 frames of brood and one frames of honey/pollen. Usually 3+ frames of brood. Moreover, ALL BROOD is from the queen in the nuc! That means the queen has been in the nuc for at least 3 weeks, and more likely 4+ weeks. That provides the buyer the opportunity to exactly observe her brood pattern!

If you can get a nuc of a similar quality for $150, go for it. There are there, but hard to find.

Lloyd


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## Grace&Mercy (Jun 26, 2015)

Good looking stuff Lauri. You sound like a good counter part to our east coast operation.
Just for reference here's our add also.

http://charlotte.craigslist.org/grd/5326763510.html


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## rookie2531 (Jul 28, 2014)

Grace&Mercy said:


> :applause:Well actually yes. Can a queen that was grafted and mated in April be sold in May as a "survivor"?


Well actually yes. If you grafted that queen from your breeder queen that has survived. Wouldn't that be a queen from survivor stock? "survivor stock" implicates past, how could it implicate future? I'm not saying its moral, but that seems to be the new trend word play, just as Andrew mentions.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Grace&Mercy said:


> Good looking stuff Lauri. You sound like a good counter part to our east coast operation.
> Just for reference here's our add also.
> 
> http://charlotte.craigslist.org/grd/5326763510.html


Yes, we are very similar!


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## Matt903 (Apr 8, 2013)

I remember someone saying on beesource last year (I think it was Mark) that if you sell out of nucs, queens, honey, packages, whatever bee related items you are selling, then you did not charge enough.


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## e-spice (Sep 21, 2013)

Matt903 said:


> I remember someone saying on beesource last year (I think it was Mark) that if you sell out of nucs, queens, honey, packages, whatever bee related items you are selling, then you did not charge enough.


Makes good sense.


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## JDMoodie (Aug 30, 2014)

If I convert for CDN$ and US$ prices are around $150 here. These are four frames, one honey/nectar, one pollen and two capped brood. In one case they are overwintered with choice of wax foundation or plastic frames as available and a one year guarantee on the queen ( I think that means one season but I didn't clarify). Orders and deposits taken in January first come first served. In others over wintered are for early comers, some are packages with new queens. 

I'm going to buy some from three suppliers, one I have had bees from for a year and are good bees, one is a local reputable breeder and the other is a long term keeper who has his own shop now. Farthest drive is about two hours.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Grace&Mercy said:


> Good looking stuff Lauri. You sound like a good counter part to our east coast operation.
> Just for reference here's our add also.
> 
> http://charlotte.craigslist.org/grd/5326763510.html


If "Karnica" refers to "Carniolan", just out of curiosity, why do you spell it with a "k"? Or does it refer to something else?


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## JDMoodie (Aug 30, 2014)

jwcarlson said:


> ...
> I think it's great that people are getting premiums for their bees. Whenever I get to the point of having as many as I 'need', I hope to produce nucs as a means of maintaining numbers.


I've bought nucs two years now. A single last year and four this year. These have primarily been my little experimentation groups. I could not split or expand this year solely due to work schedules... on week 35 out of town just this calendar year. I'm not comfortable over wintering just four so I will be buying as many as 8 so I may end up with 12. I feel that is enough to have some small production and use the majority for increasing my numbers and be self sufficient there on out with the exception of buying a few queens to give me some genetic variety down the road. 

Jeff.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

mahobee said:


> I'd rather not say who #3 was, because they were great for the 4 weeks before they swarmed, so I don't want to disparage the breeder.


This is the type of irrational criticism bee breeders have to put up with. They sell someone a good strong nuc, the purchaser fails to care for it and then complains that it swarmed. 

Why did it swarm? Because it was the strongest, best, nuc that you bought. All living things are driven to reproduce. For bees that means sending out a swarm. If they are strong and healthy that's what they will do unless the beekeeper intervenes, you didn't.

The nucs you bought from the other 2 breeders apparently were not strong enough to attempt to send out a swarm.


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## Bees of SC (Apr 12, 2013)

kaizen said:


> Agree mine were 150 last year. they were good and supposedly overwintered. Have to think they will be at 175 to 200 this year.


We had a very wet spring and flow this year, not much honey..Hot and dry all summer, had to feed..fall flow we had a 1000 year flood,very little nectar, still feeding..All my girls and queens are raised here by me. I have been selling my nuc for $150 for the past 3 years, hope to do the same this year..


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Bees are really popular these days. I paid 70 bucks for a nuc in 2009 and 2011 plus five frames with foundation. Could I get 150 for them now?


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Yes! Best of thread is right there!


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

I have this theory... If you produce a limited number of high quality nucs and you aren't a little bit embarrassed by how high the price is when you sell either -
A) You should be charging more.
Or
B) You are one of those naturally shameless people.

I have yet to hear of any small producer getting stuck with decent nucs. If anyone has I would be interested to hear about it.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Oldtimer said:


> This is the type of irrational criticism bee breeders have to put up with. They sell someone a good strong nuc, the purchaser fails to care for it and then complains that it swarmed.
> 
> Why did it swarm? Because it was the strongest, best, nuc that you bought. All living things are driven to reproduce. For bees that means sending out a swarm. If they are strong and healthy that's what they will do unless the beekeeper intervenes, you didn't.
> 
> The nucs you bought from the other 2 breeders apparently were not strong enough to attempt to send out a swarm.


I agree, but I don't think Mahobee meant it like that. I tell my customers that their nuc WILL swarm if they don't prevent it - and some do - but as near as I can tell the majority are happy with the very strong nucs and willing to take responsibility.


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## mahobee (Apr 24, 2013)

Oldtimer said:


> This is the type of irrational criticism bee breeders have to put up with. They sell someone a good strong nuc, the purchaser fails to care for it and then complains that it swarmed.
> 
> Why did it swarm? Because it was the strongest, best, nuc that you bought. All living things are driven to reproduce. For bees that means sending out a swarm. If they are strong and healthy that's what they will do unless the beekeeper intervenes, you didn't.
> 
> The nucs you bought from the other 2 breeders apparently were not strong enough to attempt to send out a swarm.


Old timer, I guess you speak a different kind of english down there. That was exactly my point. I wasn't blaming the breeder, who I think was very good, because it wasn't his fault. Maybe you shouldn't be so quick to take offense.


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## wareagle1776 (Feb 10, 2012)

I guess I speak a different kind of english also .........name them and state they were good or your post reads as OT states

Regards Robert


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

mahobee said:


> ... they were great for the 4 weeks before they swarmed, so I don't want to disparage the breeder.


If we weren't beekeepers we might not get it, and misunderstandings do happen, but I think it's pretty clear upon a bit more consideration that no offense was intended. If it had been, then the "4 weeks before they swarmed" makes it pretty clear that the seller was at no fault.

Come on folks. Move along... Nothing to see here.


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## Matt903 (Apr 8, 2013)

David you missed your calling, you should have been a diplomat. :thumbsup:


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Thanks. This is a great forum - just hoping to keep it that way.


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## mahobee (Apr 24, 2013)

David LaFerney said:


> If we weren't beekeepers we might not get it, and misunderstandings do happen, but I think it's pretty clear upon a bit more consideration that no offense was intended. If it had been, then the "4 weeks before they swarmed" makes it pretty clear that the seller was at no fault.
> 
> Come on folks. Move along... Nothing to see here.


I'm over it!


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Hope so, no offence intended to you Mahobee, and I mean that.

To explain what I said, I hope better, it struck me that you would not name the vendor of the nuc that swarmed, you felt if he was named he would be "disparaged". Where a month after you purchased it the only part that is his fault is selling you a good nuc.

Just pointing out he would not be disparaged at all, in fact if I was buying a nuc he would be the one I would go to. Course, afterwards, I would manage it lest it swarm.

While my post may have sounded strong worded it was not meaning I had taken offense, and I was not intending that any offence should be taken either. It's a discussion, I discussed something that stood out to me. That's ALL it was, enjoy the bees.


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## JSL (Sep 22, 2007)

sqkcrk said:


> If "Karnica" refers to "Carniolan", just out of curiosity, why do you spell it with a "k"? Or does it refer to something else?


Mark,

Karnica is an older spelling of Carnica. Aurea is an older strain of Italians. I used the names for lines of Carnis and Italians I developed, but many people would ask the question you did... 
Now I simply work with:
Latshaw Italians
Latshaw Carniolans 
Latshaw Hybrids 

It is just easier that way...


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Interesting. Thanks for teaching me something I was unaware of. I forget where Karnica is. Is it Greece or Greek influenced?


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## JSL (Sep 22, 2007)

Mark,

You are welcome. The typical spelling, Carnica, originated from the Carnia region near Austria/Italy. Karnica is simply a variant of the spelling and less commonly seen. Later, other sub-populations of Carniolans were described, including a sub-population from Greece.


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## Grace&Mercy (Jun 26, 2015)

sqkcrk said:


> If "Karnica" refers to "Carniolan", just out of curiosity, why do you spell it with a "k"? Or does it refer to something else?


Great question Mark, I had the same one. I don't know the answer to that but it's the way the developer (Joe Latshaw) of this line spells it, not my idea.

BTW, good luck unloading & feeding those bees today in the mud.


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## Grace&Mercy (Jun 26, 2015)

Thanks Joe for the clarity. Now we both know:applause:


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Grace&Mercy said:


> BTW, good luck unloading & feeding those bees today in the mud.


Surprisingly enough there was no mud. Quite dry actually.


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## Hiwire (Oct 19, 2014)

Here in Central New York I see nucs as low as $110 but some closer to $200. Id say the average is around $140. This will be the 3rd year I have gotten $150. Last year I sold about 50 and kept another 20. Some were deeps, some mediums. Almost no one complained about the price and the ones that did complain, still bought them. My priority is to have enough to fill the hives I sell, some to replace deadouts, and a few to increase numbers. Any extras are available to anyone that calls. Id say I turned away 20 sales because I ran out. If I pushed a little more I could easily sell 100. I'm going to try to increase some this year. I'm not worried about that price at all.
Ray


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Ray, if you can sell nucs for more than $150.00 why wouldn't you?


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

sqkcrk said:


> Ray, if you can sell nucs for more than $150.00 why wouldn't you?


we try to keep the price down to cut into the business of all the commercial beeks in the area:lpf:


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

:lpf: So who are you hurting, besides yourself?


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## Hiwire (Oct 19, 2014)

Actually the $150 is probably toward the top of any beeks I know in this area. I see higher prices advertised on CL but not from people I work with. Some of them already raise their eyebrows at my prices. I guess If I am the highest in the area they can thank me for sending people to them if they are turned off by the extra $10 or $20 per nuc. If I lowered my price all I would be doing is selling out faster and turning more people away. If people think my prices are high I have no problem with them goi g elsewhere. Last year I had people returning and begging for some of the nucs I kept for myself. I cohld probably raise my price a little to people who cold call. I might still hold them steady for the people buying hives to keep that package as attractive as possible. I make enough on the wooden ware. I just hadent considered raising prices because Im already up there but Im sure I could sell just as many at a higber price. Ive always hated leaving money on the table.
Ray


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

This is what they sell for over here, eat your hearts out guys! 

http://www.trademe.co.nz/business-farming-industry/farming-forestry/beekeeping/auction-992870848.htm

NZ $350 ='s US $236. It is now nearing mid summer here and prices have dropped, spring nucs often go for NZ $500 plus, or US $337.

The reason prices are this way here is the very high prices we are currently getting for honey.


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## D Coates (Jan 6, 2006)

To me a nuc is worth at least $50 more than a package. Don't be afraid to lose some customers. When I first started selling honey I was clueless. I was charging $5 a pound and even then some people said they could buy it at the store for less. After seeing my balance sheet never really heading into the black I decided to bump prices. After 3 years I now sell my honey for $9 a pound. Did I lose customers? Yep. But I earned more than I lost because I have honey the longest (I still run out) AND I'm firmly in the black. You know how hard the work is, don't be afraid to ask for more.


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## Matt903 (Apr 8, 2013)

I was at $150 last year and sold out, and had people calling all summer wanting nucs. I was going to stay at $150 this season as well, but my wife had different ideas. She has never looked into a beehive in her life, but she is an awesome financial planner. She insisted that I go to $175. I already have had several orders with the $175 price tag. So maybe I will just stick to bees and let her do the finances.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Hiwire said:


> If I lowered my price all I would be doing is selling out faster and turning more people away. I've always hated leaving money on the table.
> Ray


Selling lower and leaving money on the table is what you would be doing.


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## kevindsingleton (Jun 6, 2014)

sqkcrk said:


> Selling lower and leaving money on the table is what you would be doing.


I paid $125 for 5-frame deep nucs in 2014 and 2015, from the same beek, in economically-depressed western PA. I would have gladly paid more, knowing the quality of this particular source, and because he's a very helpful mentor, but we all have our limits.

If you go too high you could open the door for "the other guy" to come in and undercut you, and still make a profit. It's a tricky balancing act.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Just like everything else in business.


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## Mosherd1 (Apr 17, 2011)

I feel that as a community off nuc sellers, which I am looking to get back into, we owe it to each other to continue to push prices as high as people are willing to pay. That is what the package producers are doing. Each year the cost of packages increase, over $100 now, unless buying in bulk. They seem to stick together as well. You do not see the 90% of package producers selling packages for $100 and then 10% others selling them for $70. I definitely agree that if you are selling out quickly or not hearing any mumbles of complaints, the prices should be higher.
-Dave


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## scituatema (Aug 30, 2014)

Last year , I charged $175.00 for an overwintered nuc.


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## Matt903 (Apr 8, 2013)

scituatema said:


> Last year , I charged $175.00 for an overwintered nuc.


Did you sell out?


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## scituatema (Aug 30, 2014)

I would say so


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## bw200314 (Sep 3, 2015)

if i sell 5 frame nucs wich are over wintered i will be asking $175 for them. will be in a wooden box with frames that are less than a yr old. if i sell the 8 frame boxes over wintered will be asking $225.00


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## ekrouse (Aug 26, 2004)

Since my buddies Ray (Hiwire) and Mike (Wildbranch2007) have posted their comments, I thought I'd weigh in since it wouldn't be the same without hearing from the 3rd Musketeer.

Variables:
- All hives are mediums
- All nucs are 5-frame mediums (3 frames brood, queen, 2 frames honey & pollen).
- Hives and nucs are chemical-free
- Brood area (mediums) are on traditional wired wax foundation
- honey supers (mediums) are all natural comb (never had brood cycle)
- Queen excluders are used on all hives between brood nest & supers since cut comb honey is also produced.
- Nuc prices: 2016 $120 ($100 last year)
- Nucs are picked up in Jester's EZ nuc boxes and returned (I put them in hive bodies for people traveling long distances).

First off, a lot of the posts in this thread talk about "survivor stock" and "overwintered" nucs. Some of discussions seem to use the terms interchangeably. To ensure we are all on the same page, "survivor stock" means the queen in the nuc came from a queen who survived at least one winter. She generally is a new spring queen produced from the overwintered queen (survivor stock). In contrast, "overwintered" means the nuc being sold includes the actual queen who survived at least one winter. There are some nuc producers who replace the queens in their own hives with newly produced queens (either bought from a queen breeder or produced from survivor stock) and then sell the nucs with their old queens. True, these are technically overwintered, but the queens may be more likely to swarm once conditions are right since they are 2nd year queens and certainly are not the same as queens produced the prior fall for the purpose of being part of an overwintered nuc since they have already completed a full season of egg laying.

Here in Central New York (snowfall capital of the US), I find it difficult to overwinter nucs. To confess, I have not tried nucs specifically, since it is almost impossible to get even a 2 medium box hive through the winter, but I know of someone who claims to have overwintered deep nucs locally using polystyrene nuc boxes. My normal overwintering hive configuration consists of 4 mediums (equivalent to 2 deeps + 1 medium). In addition, the last couple of brutal years I have added a sugar box / board (no cook method) to my hives for added insurance (thanks Ray for that one!). Mike (Wildbranch2007) overwinters in 3 deeps!

All the nucs I produce each spring include queens from proven survivor stock. The queens are all Northern Bred and locally produced, tracing back to Carniolan lineage. They have been developed from survivor strains adapted to Central New York's long cold winters with genetics for gentleness, surplus honey production and disease /parasite resistance due to being raised in a chemical-free environment. Specifically, I select the top 2 - 4 queens who have overwintered 1 or more years and have produced in the top 10% of honey production of all my hives. When possible, I prefer to use queens who have survived two winters. Our nucs are generally not available until the first week of June since all include locally raised queens from survivor stock rather than nucs made up with queens shipped from the South.

Last year our price was $100 each. Given that everyone seems to be charging $150+ for deep (or even medium) nucs, I thought $120 to be a fair price since all the nucs I produce are 5-frame mediums (3 frames brood, queen, 2 frames honey & pollen).


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

I sold out of $175 spring 8 frame medium starter hives last year - they were in nice regular hive setups. Had a last minute back out on an order of 3 (short on fundage) and sold them in about 5 minutes of text messaging.

Spring nucs made up from overwintered bees/resources + purchased commercial queens from Georgia - made up about a month before sale. Customer satisfaction seemed to be very high - some have contacted me to order more for next spring already.


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## Grace&Mercy (Jun 26, 2015)

I hear all of this about leaving money on the table and what the market will bear. I suppose all of that has some truth to it. I can only speak for myself of coarse so as for me, the price I set is totally based on weather or not it's profitable to my business..... Cost of wood, frames, foundation, queen rearing equp, misc supplies, syrup, diesel fuel, mite treatments, syrup, syrup & more syrup are all continuing to go up. So to stay in this wonderful business that I love SOOO much, the one thing I sell (nucs) must go up.... Sad but true!


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## Grace&Mercy (Jun 26, 2015)

"


> First off, a lot of the posts in this thread talk about "survivor stock" and "overwintered" nucs. Some of discussions seem to use the terms interchangeably. To ensure we are all on the same page, "survivor stock" means the queen in the nuc came from a queen who survived at least one winter. She generally is a new spring queen produced from the overwintered queen (survivor stock). In contrast, "overwintered" means the nuc being sold includes the actual queen who survived at least one winter. There are some nuc producers who replace the queens in their own hives with newly produced queens (either bought from a queen breeder or produced from survivor stock) and then sell the nucs with their old queens. True, these are technically overwintered, but the queens may be more likely to swarm once conditions are right since they are 2nd year queens and certainly are not the same as queens produced the prior fall for the purpose of being part of an overwintered nuc since they have already completed a full season of egg laying."



Sorry but I believe we differ in our "definitions" of the two terms and their uses, at least a little bit. Once again I can only speak for myself and that's all I intend to do. "Our" over wintered survivors are bees/queens produced in the previous summer/fall that have been in nuc boxes the entire time AND prove themselves by building up strong in spring. These bees/queens have never seen a honey flow yet and certainly have NOT brooded out and are not "old queens". We raise nucs from nucs. Not unlike many other very respected producers ex.(Mike Palmer in Vermont) and many others. Yes I would agree the two terms are greatly over used and misused do to the high quality and popularity/demand of such bees. Some less "moral" (for lack of a better term) sellers will simply pull a nuc w/queen out of last years honey production hives and sell it identified as "over wintered" "survivor", and IT IS! But it is certainly NOT the same thing AT ALL for the reasons you outlined above.

I think the take away here is that there are many many different ways to manage these wonderful creatures of God's that we are blessed with. How we do it is up to each of us. Many of the terms we use are not always universal. I still believe that those who operate with integrity and sell a good product and stand behind it honoring God with all they do, will survive. We have to be careful not to judge others for or by what they do. We all glean from each other and that's good. Helping another person -directly or indirectly- do a better job is honorable. Keep up the good work out there all you beeks!


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

Grace&Mercy said:


> Sorry but I believe we differ in our "definitions" of the two terms and their uses, at least a little bit.


Doesn't seem like you differ at all. What did I miss?


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## ekrouse (Aug 26, 2004)

I think we are all saying essentially the same thing. It sounds to me like Grace&Mercy is raising queens for nucs and not using last year's production queens, which is consistent with the definition of overwintered queens. Also, to be clear, I am not saying a last year production queen is necessarily bad. I get my best honey production out of 2nd year queens since the first year was spent building up from the nuc stage. Its just that the queen is not from an overwintered nuc, she is from an overwintered production hive.

As far as "survivor stock" goes... I should have added to my last post that survivor stock really isn't just queens who survived the winter. Lots of weak / non-adapted bees (stock not suited to their locality) may make it over a single winter by shear luck since there are so many variable. True survivor stock means a lineage of bees that have survived and adapted over time so that the genetics best suited to your area and management techniques are passed down.

Example:
Let's say you have 10 hives in a Northern state. You don't treat for mites and have cold winters. 5 survive to the next spring. You do spits / raise queen from those hives first thing in the spring so that queens mate with other survivor / wild stock before commercial beekeepers move into the area with hives from the south (or newly purchased queens from the south). This is important since your queens will be open mated (not artificially inseminated) with drones in the area (at "Drone Congregation Areas (DCAs)" typically more than two miles away from your hives. Perhaps you catch a swarm or do a cut-out from that wild hive that has survived as long as anyone can remember. Now you have 15 hives. Again, you don't treat for mites and 12 make it to the fall (the others die from mites, laying workers, robbing, etc). That winter some die and you have 8 hives come the following spring. You then repeat the whole process. Within a few years you have true "Survivor Stock". When you raise and sell queens and nucs from these bees, you are selling "survivor stock". That is much different that a package purchased last year from Georgia which survived the winter.

-Eric


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## JDMoodie (Aug 30, 2014)

ekrouse said:


> ...survivor stock really isn't just queens who survived the winter. Lots of weak / non-adapted bees (stock not suited to their locality) may make it over a single winter by shear luck since there are so many variable. True survivor stock means a lineage of bees that have survived and adapted over time so that the genetics best suited to your area and management techniques are passed down.
> ...
> -Eric


That would more accurately define survivor stock to me.

It comes down to asking the questions of your supplier. If you are dealing with a smaller operation I am sure that they are more than willing and glad to let you know exactly what you are getting. 

In my case, one is operating a breeding program so I know that they are not just buying queens. They will be overwintered in the nuc that I buy and their production capacity is determined by how many nucs survive the winter, not by how many orders they can top off with queens or bees. Another will supply overwintered (but likely purchased queens) to the early comers and topped off nucs (laying but new queens) to the last buyers. The third I am sure is creating nucs in the spring and buying queens to fill the orders. Due to necessity and late ordering, I only have hives from the third now but they have been good for this season. Wintering is yet to be seen.

I will buy from all three for variety but ratio according to my preference and track how they do over the next seasons. I don't plan on having to buy more the following year as next year will be mostly a buildup season.

Jeff.


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

For clarity sake, can we try to use a format like the following:

{3,4,5, or 6)-frame {deep Langstroth, Western 7.5", medium, non-standard (give dimensions)} nucleus colony in {cardboard, coroplast, styrofaom, or wooden} box;

{wax, plastic/wood frames, plastic frames, foundationless, mixed, etc.}

X frames of brood, 5-x frames of honey;

queen from {month, year}

from stock {Treated for: x,y,z, TF, VSH, Italian, Survivor, AMM, Carniolan, Buckfast, Russian, etc.)

Special comments regarding bees' bloodlines, care, traits, etc.

It would have been nice If I'd seen this before it went 4 pages long. Doh!


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

t:I'm sure that everyone is very interested in the relative merits of overwintered vs survivor vs treatment free vs climate adapted vs spring vs magic vs made-up-on-the-spot nucs etc... So much so that it probably merits it's own thread (again) instead of larding it into a humble discussion of prices for next spring. If you know what I mean.


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

I have been thinking for a while now that we have a bubble in the Bee market... It will be interesting to see when and what causes it to pop. On the package frontage wholesale prices have been pretty steady with small increases each year, retail prices have gone nuts. Retailers blame shipping costs mostly, but those have come way down with fuel prices, yet the customer isn't reaping the rewards. Nucs are also in crazy high territory.

Sell while you can get the money I guess.


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## mahobee (Apr 24, 2013)

bluegrass said:


> I have been thinking for a while now that we have a bubble in the Bee market... It will be interesting to see when and what causes it to pop. On the package frontage wholesale prices have been pretty steady with small increases each year, retail prices have gone nuts. Retailers blame shipping costs mostly, but those have come way down with fuel prices, yet the customer isn't reaping the rewards. Nucs are also in crazy high territory.
> 
> Sell while you can get the money I guess.


AHA! Finally a topic on bee source where I can claim some expertise!
Not every instance of rising prices is a bubble. this is a simple case of supply and demand. The supplies of bees has been decreasing due to mites, diseases, pesticides, etc. while the demand from new hobbyists, environmentalists, etc is increasing. Nobody is over leveraging themselves to buy bees, or taking advantage of artificially cheap money that will disappear, there's no temporary regulatory issues that are increasing the price. Free market, working efficiently, something both Democrats and Republicans can agree on and enjoy!


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

mahobee said:


> AHA! Finally a topic on bee source where I can claim some expertise!
> Not every instance of rising prices is a bubble. this is a simple case of supply and demand. The supplies of bees has been decreasing due to mites, diseases, pesticides, etc. while the demand from new hobbyists, environmentalists, etc is increasing. Nobody is over leveraging themselves to buy bees, or taking advantage of artificially cheap money that will disappear, there's no temporary regulatory issues that are increasing the price. Free market, working efficiently, something both Democrats and Republicans can agree on and enjoy!


Ahhh, but you don't know the full story... The supply/demand is artificial... As a former package dealer I could get more packages than I could ever sell... At the end of the selling season prior to delivery I would cancel 100s of unsold packages some years. The supplier simply doesn't shake them out.. It's common practice. 
There are some years where, due to weather, they have trouble getting them out on time, but that didn't change the number available... they can produce more than the demand will support.

Pick up an old bee rag and look at the ads for bees from 5 years ago and then look at them today... they have had 60-70% increase since then.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

I based my nuc prices on several things:

-The differences between my product and the normal generic variety that is widely available.

-The service and education I offer my customers.

-My costs and time involved in the production of a slightly customized product.

-My local economy, cost of living 

-the over all cost increases of supplies and feed. 

-And last but not least, the amount of income I could generate if I _kept_ those 5 frames and the queen.

I could:
..Let it grow and make about 4 sale nucs the next season with a very small input of labor and costs
..Use it to rear queens and sell them separately. 
..Let it grow into a production hive and harvest a honey crop.

All those options boil down the about to the same income as the nuc, which once out of my hands has _no future production benefit _for me. Money from a sale nuc is faster, immediate. Income from other type of production is slower to accumulate, but is still comparable and I still have the resources to continue with future product production. 


If I find at some point I have a reduced market for my nucs, I'd just keep them in a large colony configuration and let them make a honey crop. Or rear more queens. It doesn't matter what product I make out of an overwintered colony. That's the beauty of beekeeping, you can choose your product based on the demand and seasonal circumstances.


I am NOT commercial, I'm small enough to be extremely diversified and flexible.


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

I think that is a good way to look at it Lauri, but I think you are the exception and probably not the rule.


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## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

mahobee said:


> Not every instance of rising prices is a bubble. this is a simple case of supply and demand. The supplies of bees has been decreasing due to mites, diseases, pesticides, etc. while the demand from new hobbyists, environmentalists, etc is increasing. Nobody is over leveraging themselves to buy bees, or taking advantage of artificially cheap money that will disappear, there's no temporary regulatory issues that are increasing the price. Free market, working efficiently, something both Democrats and Republicans can agree on and enjoy!


In California, one effect of the "faddishness" of hobby beekeeping is the creation of a whole new employment category of "service beekeepers". These are the servants of the aristocracy who maintain beehives on the landed estates. For decades, the profession of beekeeping has been shrinking as the older keeps aged out. Some percentage of these new service keepers will evolve into genuine professionals and rebuild the ranks -- together with immigrant Argentinians and Ukrainians.


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## Colobee (May 15, 2014)

RWeaver Buckfast nucs: http://www.rweaver.com/index.php?cPath=31&osCsid=8ef2b9a971e7da163cfcdb121fe6e9b8

It appears that when you are multi-generation operation, with the best bees  & a great reputation, you can fetch $250. 

A 50% failure with (local drop) 3 lb packages this year would have made these a bargain. The drive to Navasota would have been a long one.


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

Colobee said:


> RWeaver Buckfast nucs: http://www.rweaver.com/index.php?cPath=31&osCsid=8ef2b9a971e7da163cfcdb121fe6e9b8
> 
> It appears that when you are multi-generation operation, with the best bees  & a great reputation, you can fetch $250.


You don't even need a reputation or a description of the products source... In this era of bee craze you can sell at what ever price you want.
http://www.betterbee.com/live-honey-bees-and-queens/2016k-overwintered-nuc.asp


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## Colobee (May 15, 2014)

I'll take 3-4 generations of queen/bee rearing over any of the "new age" producers. They have served me well for decades. Choose your poison carefully. And be prepared to reap the whirlwind.


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## JHill (Sep 27, 2013)

http://www.beeweaver.com/buy_beeweaver

How about $335 a nuc


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## fieldsofnaturalhoney (Feb 29, 2012)

bluegrass said:


> You don't even need a reputation or a description of the products source... In this era of bee craze you can sell at what ever price you want.
> http://www.betterbee.com/live-honey-bees-and-queens/2016k-overwintered-nuc.asp


How can this nuc be "tested" overwinter in five frames? Or was that the test


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Did you read the description? 

"Overwintered nucs differ from spring nucs in that they were prepared the previous summer. They are produced from locally acclimated bees with locally produced northern queens. We like to say that overwintered nucs are "tested." By this we mean that the queen has taken her colony through a winter and survived. We feel this selection process produces bees well acclimated for our local climate. The overwintered nucs that we are selling are all produced by Betterbee. The colony will need a super sooner if drawn comb is used."


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## rsjohnson2u (Apr 23, 2012)

I'm two plus hours north of Lauri. "Nucs" here (really splits of CA almond returning bees with a current year CA queen) run from $125-135. 
A 5 frame nuc from a treatment free queen breeder last year was $150. He told me this season's will be $150 for a 3 frame nuc, $50 increase on 5 frames to $200 for 2016. Again, these queens are current season, NOT overwintered. For comparison, our local bee supply stores sell packages for $105-110 plus package box deposit. Cessns180 has posted his package options elsewhere here.
Like box size, some common ground would be nice. I think Michael Palmer has said if it doesn't have an overwintered queen, it's a split, not a nuc.


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## fieldsofnaturalhoney (Feb 29, 2012)

sqkcrk said:


> Did you read the description?
> 
> "Overwintered nucs differ from spring nucs in that they were prepared the previous summer. They are produced from locally acclimated bees with locally produced northern queens. We like to say that overwintered nucs are "tested." By this we mean that the queen has taken her colony through a winter and survived. We feel this selection process produces bees well acclimated for our local climate. The overwintered nucs that we are selling are all produced by Betterbee. The colony will need a super sooner if drawn comb is used."


Yes I did, I guess I am curious about what was "tested" in only five frames. Reads like merely survival.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

This is what they say they mean by tested. What more do you want?  "By this we mean that the queen has taken her colony through a winter and survived. " Are you looking to buy nucs from Betterbee or just want to complain?


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## fieldsofnaturalhoney (Feb 29, 2012)

sqkcrk said:


> This is what they say they mean by tested. What more do you want?  "By this we mean that the queen has taken her colony through a winter and survived. " Are you looking to buy nucs from Betterbee or just want to complain?


Neither, that's not how I roll


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Thought so too Fieldsofnaturalhoney, if their systems are any good they will likely come close to 100% winter nuc survival. The nucs are then sold and I don't see how this process adds to their "locally adapted" bees.

It would weed out any that went drone layer through winter that's about it. If they want their bees to be "locally adapted" that would need to be incorporated into their breeder selection. 

What's really going on is that "locally adapted" has become the hottest buzzword in beekeeping right now. Find some way to include it in your advertisement and lots of eager nubees will buy your product.


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## dudelt (Mar 18, 2013)

JHill said:


> http://www.beeweaver.com/buy_beeweaver
> 
> How about $335 a nuc


Wow! Now that is getting steep. However, when buyers are knocking down the doors to buy from you, it is a good time to raise the prices. Caveat emptor to all.


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## jcolon (Sep 12, 2014)

I plan to make a few for sale this year for the first time. Given that I'm doing medium foundationless frames only, which might be a niche, I will price them a bit above what I see in the area, which seems to be around the 165 -175, BYOB style.


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## ncbeez (Aug 25, 2015)

Nucs in my area are $135 to $165. You have to put a deposit on the box for the $165 one. The other 3 suppliers you don't. Surprisingly the best deal is the $135 Nuc. He gives you a very strong Nuc packed with bees in an excellent handmade box. The trouble is he has repeat buyers and is sold-out usually by mid January. However there is a seller I know of in Georgia who sells for $200.None of these are overwintered, those are more expensive.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Oldtimer said:


> What's really going on is that "locally adapted" has become the hottest buzzword in beekeeping right now. Find some way to include it in your advertisement and lots of eager nubees will buy your product.


That is where I have a problem lying is become the norm.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

You don't have to lie. My spring nucs made up from my overwintered bees - which I treat - and queens purchased from the deep south - in early April, are sold out. No buzz words used - I've even told people (with deeps) that it would be better for them to buy from my friend because mine are mediums and his are deeps.

Here's the thing - in my area if you haven't already arranged to get early bees you won't get them locally. They are pretty much gone by February. You can still get bees delivered about 1/2 way through the flow.


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

I can see I am way under priced but then I dont try to take advantage of people either.Everyone that comes to me are newbees and I would rather give a little break and help to them.


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## fieldsofnaturalhoney (Feb 29, 2012)

snapper1d said:


> I can see I am way under priced but then I dont try to take advantage of people either.


To me it's all about asking all the right questions (some of which I was pondering earlier in the thread), & disclosure of what you are selling, know matter what the price of the nucleus. Know what your buying, & if the buyer feels it is something they want to purchase..,no one is taken advantage of. Lying about your product should not be an option


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## Hillbillybees (Mar 3, 2016)

We do it a little different maybe. We take the overwintered queen and transfer her to a 4 frame box with a frame of bees. We let her go until we can add a 4 frame on top. When she has filled out 6 or 7 she is for sale with her new bees. For new beeks we will furnish a five frame cardboard box or bring your own which we actually prefer so they can see what they are getting. We like to show them the queen and let them see the brood going in the box. The left over brood is used to strengthen our production hives. Long time clients don't need that attention so we just make up their order with really strong nucs that we would be glad to buy if we were needing some. At $165 we don't care if we sell her. She's money in the bank if we don't.


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## Sunday Farmer (Nov 13, 2013)

I didn't advertise this year but took 20 nuc orders for the "just in case fund". 
Same as last year- $150 for a 5 frame medium nuc, taking strips out in about 10 days, have them inspected then sold.


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## dixieswife (Apr 15, 2013)

Nuc prices around here are $135 - $150. Generally a 20% deposit to order.


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## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

I do the same as Hillbilly bees, Last years queens and maybe 3 frames of bees and sell then about 8 weeks later 8 to 10 frames, generally install them in the newbees hive for about $120. Can these be classed as over wintered bees obviously local bees and queen.
Johno


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## ABK (May 9, 2016)

Darn..I just saw this thread. I wish I knew what to look for before I purchased mine.

I paid 170 for a cardboard "nuc", which included barely 2 frames of brood, another frame of pollen/honey, and 2 bare frames with ritecell foundation. One of those frames had maybe 2 square inches of comb.. And I bought 2 of these "nucs".. Local guy too.


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## Sunday Farmer (Nov 13, 2013)

ABK said:


> I paid 170 for a cardboard "nuc", which included barely 2 frames of brood, another frame of pollen/honey, and 2 bare frames with ritecell foundation. One of those frames had maybe 2 square inches of comb.. And I bought 2 of these "nucs".. Local guy too.


That is horrible. I mean- it's bees in a box but it's barely a nuc. Did it come with a queen?


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## ABK (May 9, 2016)

Well yes one did anyway. Not sure if the second nuc never had a queen or she got destroyed/rejected. I didn't look for the queens for very long when I was hiving them, but a week later during my first inspection, I saw a queen in the one hive and an emergency cell and no eggs/queen in another. After speaking with the beekeeper who sold me the nucs, he promised to give me a few frames of brood and a "pseudo queen".

Which is all moot, now anyway because 2 nights ago a bear destroyed both hives and both hives now have basically no brood and a handful of bees in each.


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

ABK said:


> Darn..I just saw this thread. I wish I knew what to look for before I purchased mine.
> 
> I paid 170 for a cardboard "nuc", which included barely 2 frames of brood, another frame of pollen/honey, and 2 bare frames with ritecell foundation. One of those frames had maybe 2 square inches of comb.. And I bought 2 of these "nucs".. Local guy too.


I sell 4 frames of brood and one with honey/pollen.What you got I wouldnt even call that a nuc.Also mine are $150


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## ABK (May 9, 2016)

Jeez I got hosed. Guess it doesn't matter since the bear ate it all. I'll know to look elsewhere for bees in the future.


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## fieldsofnaturalhoney (Feb 29, 2012)

ABK said:


> Jeez I got hosed. Guess it doesn't matter since the bear ate it all. I'll know to look elsewhere for bees in the future.


Indeed, really not ethical. Get your bear fence up


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## LoneWolf (Feb 25, 2014)

I do not feel so bad paying $85 for 5 frame spring nucs after reading this thread.


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