# Brushy Mountain Closing?



## westtnbeekeeper (Oct 26, 2015)

Too big to fail...?

Probably not...

Too big to succeed...?

Anybody's guess...

Its a shame if they go under. :digging:


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## TNValleyBeeK (Oct 3, 2012)

More like too expensive to sell anything!


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## westtnbeekeeper (Oct 26, 2015)

TNValleyBeeK said:


> More like to expensive to sell anything!


Yeah probably so... They have always sold good stuff though. 

My problem was trying to order from them and parts of the order were not in stock. The company solution was to drop ship the rest of the order when available plus the appropriate shipping charges.

I cancelled the entire order and got everything from mann lake. Been ordering from them ever since.


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## edzkoda (Aug 9, 2014)

All kinds of info was going around the conference today, that I didn't hear. But it was good seeing you today


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## Hobo (Mar 4, 2014)

westtnbeekeeper said:


> My problem was trying to order from them and parts of the order were not in stock. The company solution was to drop ship the rest of the order when available plus the appropriate shipping charges.


My experience was completely different. I placed an order this summer that qualified for free shipping. Part of the order was not in stock. They shipped what was in stock and a week or two later I received the remainder of the order. No additional shipping fees. I remember that happening another time. No additional shipping fees for the backordered items. 

My experience with Brushy Mountain has been nothing but positive.


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## rwlaw (May 4, 2009)

I know a vendor that sells to them, I’ll have to ask him.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

There is a vendor here in the Richmond area, Honey and the Hive, that is a brand new Brushy Mountain distributor. Hard to believe they would take on a new vendor if the plan was to close up shop.

They have three locations, maybe the rumour is that one of them is closing? Just a WAG.


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## sc-bee (May 10, 2005)

I just head this.... "Actually in April 2019, Brushy Mountain Correctional Center in Tennessee will be closing. Not connected to the Bee Farm in Moravian Falls, NC."

Could it be a confusion of names???


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

More than likely, the prison is hardly state of the art. 


Edit
According to Wikki, the prison closed in 2009.


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

Wilsonville OR is closing. I ran down there on Friday when the bee club had leaked the news; they were not staffed for it. They closed the store and when the guy I was with pulled on the door they came out and said to come back on Tuesday. I later seen that they had reopened in a limited capacity later that afternoon and started selling again. I drove 45 minutes to get there. At least they told me that the glass was all gone (getting glass local is a big deal for me since ML will not ship for free or insure).
I just thought it was the local store.


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## Steve in PA (Jan 26, 2015)

The one by me never has things when they are needed most. In the busy season they are often out of simple things like foundation and frames. In early spring they have no boxes. It's nice having a place close. It would be even nicer if the close place had what I need.

It's gotten to the point that paying incrementally more for Prime delivery is worth it.


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## westtnbeekeeper (Oct 26, 2015)

Hobo said:


> My experience was completely different. I placed an order this summer that qualified for free shipping. Part of the order was not in stock. They shipped what was in stock and a week or two later I received the remainder of the order. No additional shipping fees. I remember that happening another time. No additional shipping fees for the backordered items.
> 
> My experience with Brushy Mountain has been nothing but positive.


I would have expected that to be the case in my situation but twas not to be. I have a lot of brushy mountain gear but it was all purchased from middle men. From what I could see the prices were no different than the catalog prices. I would assume that would be the product of a generous vendor discount or the bulk prices are reasonable enough to survive on.


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## westtnbeekeeper (Oct 26, 2015)

:doh:

It would make more sense that it would be the prison.

Its just down the interstate from me here but I have never laid eyes on it.

Must have closed it about the time James Earl Ray died.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

minz said:


> Wilsonville OR is closing.


_Minz_ got the story correct. 
It is just the Wilsonville, Oregon store of Brushy Mtn Bee Supply (AKA Ruhl Bee Supply) that is closing / now closed.

https://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?350579-Ruhl-Bee-in-Oregon-shut-their-doors
http://www.ruhlbeesupply.com/?fbclid=IwAR3h2d093e70K4rumElMO9m7pmtMX4Ms-JgJBi1jqeiWSu9DsnuAYDpEAoo

The rest of Brushy Mountain Bee Supply is operating as usual.


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## zonedar (May 14, 2015)

This was posted on Ruhl's FB page as a reply to their post about closing their doors.

"Thank you all for the kind words and well wishes. We'll sure miss our wonderful community of beekeepers! To answer a couple of questions, _*BMBF is still open but has limited inventory in some departments*_ [emphasis mine]. And unfortunately Ruhl Bee will not have any further opportunities to sell off remaining inventory."

Not sure what it means but it certainly isn't a positive regarding BM.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

IF BM closes, wonder who will handle the LEGAL OA? Right now BM is the only one who distributes the Legal OA. Everyone who sells the legal OA, buys from BM.


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## orthoman (Feb 23, 2013)

Too bad...it was a nice little store with nice folks working there. Was also a stopping point on the way to and from Seattle from Northern California.


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

they always treated me good. The supported all the bee clubs with raffle gifts and discounts. They will be missed in this area. Now where am I going to get good 1lb glass jars for free shipping?


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## twinoaks (Sep 1, 2018)

JWPalmer said:


> There is a vendor here in the Richmond area, Honey and the Hive, that is a brand new Brushy Mountain distributor. Hard to believe they would take on a new vendor if the plan was to close up shop.
> 
> They have three locations, maybe the rumour is that one of them is closing? Just a WAG.


I am in Richmond--actually Henrico. Where is "Honey and the Hive" located? I buy mostly in bulk, but occasionally need some thing or another.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

From their letter of introduction:

Honey and the Hive, LLC is a mobile beekeeping supply company that is a distributor of Brushy Mountain beekeeping equipment, along with additional custom woodenware. We plan to be available at most club meetings and events. We currently operate out of our homes in Powhatan and Gooochland counties, and are able to meet up for delivery, both at our homes and various locations around the greater Richmond area. For any questions or orders, please call Keith White, 804-690-9904 (Powhatan) or Doug Anderson, 804-501-8266 (Goochland)."

They have a mobile store in a fairly well stocked trailer. Give them a call next time you need something. They sell at the catalogue price. Nice folks. 

Al Hollins is also a BM distributor in Mechanicsville and operates out his old honey house. PM me if you want his contact info. Don't want this appear as a solicitation to sell.


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## twinoaks (Sep 1, 2018)

Thanks for the info on Honey and the Hive. Its always good to have resources to use and share.

I know Al Hollins well and still visit from time to time. Everything is going through his son Ronnie now.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Yes. It was Ronnie's email I would have sent you. He is very convenient for me locationwise, just a pain to place an order. I wonder how wide spread BM's authorized ditributor network is?


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## DAinVA (Apr 17, 2015)

JWPalmer said:


> From their letter of introduction:
> 
> Honey and the Hive, LLC is a mobile beekeeping supply company that is a distributor of Brushy Mountain beekeeping equipment, along with additional custom woodenware. We plan to be available at most club meetings and events. We currently operate out of our homes in Powhatan and Gooochland counties, and are able to meet up for delivery, both at our homes and various locations around the greater Richmond area. For any questions or orders, please call Keith White, 804-690-9904 (Powhatan) or Doug Anderson, 804-501-8266 (Goochland)."
> 
> ...


JWPalmer - Thanks for spreading the news. From my understanding it is the PA and OR stores that are closing. I think with the free shipping that everyone is offering, that it doesn't make sense to have stores all over the country, especially if their manufacturing is in one location. If they have to ship stuff to their other stores, then ship again to customers, it doesn't seem that it would make sense. When we got our initial inventory, we went to the NC store to pick it up and Shane gave us a tour of their manufacturing facility that is down at the bottom of the mountain. A very well run operation.


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## Santa Walt (Mar 16, 2016)

sc-bee said:


> I just head this.... "Actually in April 2019, Brushy Mountain Correctional Center in Tennessee will be closing. Not connected to the Bee Farm in Moravian Falls, NC."
> 
> Could it be a confusion of names???


Brushy Mountain Prison in Tennessee closed in 2009, not 2019.


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## jklapperich (Jun 22, 2015)

If you ever get up around Northern Virginia, you should check out The Bee Store in Woodbridge.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

From what I’ve heard, they have closed their sewing operations and possibly their woodworking. Folks there are reaching out for jobs.


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## zonedar (May 14, 2015)

Their website has been down all morning. Goes to a generic maintenance landing page. Maybe they're updating it to reflect the closure of subsidiary offices, like Ruhl?

Update: Tried calling the 800 number and just got voice mail.


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

There is a post on the Friendly Beekeepers group on FB at 2:45pm EST that all 3 locations are now closed and the NC one will only reopen if they find a buyer.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Amazing that they would go under. I have to admit that I haven't bought from them in years but I always thought that they had a pretty big customer base.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

All my beekeeping woodenware that I do not make myself has come from BM. I sure hope that they are simply reorganizing. Would be a real shame if they closed for good.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

beemandan said:


> I always thought that they had a pretty big customer base.


Mismanagement....


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

Going out of business during the biggest 'bee boom' since WWII may well portend the future of the recent decade old trend.
As Chaucer said >Everything comes to an end<.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Maybe, Mann Lake will buy the assets. They (ML) are now the “Amazon “ of beekeeping.


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## e-spice (Sep 21, 2013)

I got a lot of my equipment from them several years back and like it. I hate to hear they may go out of business but recently they started pushing a lot of expensive novelty fads items like wireless hive scales. Frames were significantly more expensive than similar offerings from Mann Lake and other suppliers.


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## genusCastor (Nov 3, 2018)

snl said:


> Maybe, Mann Lake will buy the assets. They (ML) are now the “Amazon “ of beekeeping.


I'm new to beekeeping (2018 is my first year), but I made my first order last spring from Mann Lake and thought they were slow and unresponsive. So for my second order, this fall, I used Dadant and had a completely different (positive) experience.

Surprised to read this discussion about bee keeping supplies and no mention of Dadant?

- djb


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## dixiebooks (Jun 21, 2010)

minz said:


> they always treated me good. The supported all the bee clubs with raffle gifts and discounts. They will be missed in this area. Now where am I going to get good 1lb glass jars for free shipping?


From the same place that Brushy Mountain likely got theirs from? www.fillmorecontainer.com At the website, search for "honey jars". Shipping isn't free but pickup is free in Lancaster, PA. A guy in my church makes jams and jellies for a living and goes there regularly and visits family and he has picked up jars for me. If you are close by there, it may be worth the trip, particularly if you can qualify for bulk pricing by getting a club order together. -james


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## dixiebooks (Jun 21, 2010)

snl said:


> Maybe, Mann Lake will buy the assets. They (ML) are now the “Amazon “ of beekeeping.


Or Miller Bee Supply in North Wilkesboro, NC...very close to Brushy Mountain Bee Farm. Miller has good equipment and pricing. -james
\


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nPyMBdOh_Y


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## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

zonedar said:


> And unfortunately Ruhl Bee will not have any further opportunities to sell off remaining inventory."
> 
> Not sure what it means but it certainly isn't a positive regarding BM.


It's not hard to read between these lines. 'No further opportunity to sell remaining inventory' says, that inventory has been seized.

With this event happing suddenly and abruptly on a Friday morning, is a clear telegraph to anybody that runs a business. This event was triggered by a funding shortfall when bi-weekly payroll obligations have become due.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

I think you nailed it. Payroll or a creditor.


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## e-spice (Sep 21, 2013)

grozzie2 said:


> With this event happing suddenly and abruptly on a Friday morning, is a clear telegraph to anybody that runs a business. This event was triggered by a funding shortfall when bi-weekly payroll obligations have become due.


Just curious - how do we know those details?


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## e-spice (Sep 21, 2013)

Anyone know of any Brushy Mountain distributors that may have some inventory left?


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## WTS (Feb 2, 2018)

Try Sue at Harvard Eggs, Feed & Produce 17205 McGuire Rd Harvard, IL 60033. Phone: 815-943-4837. Email: [email protected]


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## Franz Bleffert (Aug 2, 2017)

It all sounds like a BS rumor to me. If you had problems with back orders, it's probably because you ordered it too late in the season. I got back ordered once, but I think it was in like May when I had an emergency equipment shortage. That to me suggests they were selling out, and doing well enough. Any serious beekeeper would start ordering in Jan/Feb. I've ordered thousands of dollars of equipment from them with no problems.

The brand name is too valuable to just evaporate in my opinion. Somebody would buy it. 

The company has made no public statements confirming this rumor. It would be highly unusual for an enterprise like BM to just disappear.


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## Chicago_ks (Feb 27, 2018)

genusCastor said:


> I'm new to beekeeping (2018 is my first year), but I made my first order last spring from Mann Lake and thought they were slow and unresponsive. So for my second order, this fall, I used Dadant and had a completely different (positive) experience.
> 
> Surprised to read this discussion about bee keeping supplies and no mention of Dadant?
> 
> - djb


I'm new too. I placed three orders in three months. Each time I got three emails from them. 1st said we got your order, if you need to change it do it now. 2nd said this is your order and it has shipped. 3rd was tracking info and the expected delivery date. I did create an account right away.

If I had realized that Dadant was an IL company I would have looked closer.
ks


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Franz Bleffert said:


> It all sounds like a BS rumor to me.


Sadly, it is true. If you doubt....try to order something....either online or by phone.


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

Aren't they the Co. that paid to get OA registered as a pesticide? I understand that is a very expensive process. Maybe the expected revenue did not materialize making it impossible recoup their investment.

Just a thought.

Alex


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Now where will we obtain LEGAL Oxalic acid? I’m sure some enterprising company will pick it up. But in the meantime, those who care about using the legal Oxalic acid can buy it from the other companies that still have a supply they bought from BM.


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## Cloverdale (Mar 26, 2012)

True. All the info is on Bee-l, posted by James Fisher: “Brushy Mountain has pulled the plug on its website, and was selling off
in-stock inventory at steep discounts over the past few weeks to other
dealers. The statement that only the former Ruhl Bee Supply store in OR was
closing seems to have been an understatement.

Curiouser and curiouser, Brushy has also been disappeared from the list of
"our companies" and even "former companies" at Haldey Capital, the "private
equity" firm that bought the business from Steve and Sandy Forrest in 2014.

It seems strange that Hadley did not attempt to find a buyer for the running
business, or perhaps they could not find one despite their search. Not sure
what kind of value one would get for the capital equipment, given how
"dedicated" the machines are.

But for those keeping score, that makes one company driven into a ditch to
the point of needing new owners, and now the smoking ruins of a
significant manufacturer and catalog house, both purely failures of
management rather than due to any other factor.”


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## TNValleyBeeK (Oct 3, 2012)

It's not really a big shocker, I mean in the grand scheme of things it's not a big market and it looks to be very competitive. Just like beekeeping, if it's not owned and operated by a very tight hardworking family or at least a very determined owner in which the bees are their life then it's very likely not going to prosper. Theres not enough $ to go around with that many hands in the cookie jar. I'm sure there's exceptions to the rule but this is a not an industry with endless possibilities.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

we have local Texas beeks ordering their stuff off Amazon, don't count that out. Amazon kills quality part of the time but they really kill online store operations. I am sad I didn't buy that resource hive I was eying a couple of months ago. Their quality is top notch


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## e-spice (Sep 21, 2013)

Cloverdale said:


> True. All the info is on Bee-l, posted by James Fisher: “Brushy Mountain has pulled the plug on its website, and was selling off
> in-stock inventory at steep discounts over the past few weeks to other
> dealers."


Thanks for the additional info Cloverdale. What is "Bee-I"???


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Search BEE-L I take my hat off when I enter and just listen!


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## Cloverdale (Mar 26, 2012)

e-spice said:


> Thanks for the additional info Cloverdale. What is "Bee-I"???


Bee-l, as in a lower case L. It is an email “forum” so to speak, with most people lurking, gleaning info contributed by some very smart educated people, and some conversations are way over my head. They have archives of years of beekeeping information. Deb


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## Cloverdale (Mar 26, 2012)

crofter said:


> Search BEE-L I take my hat off when I enter and just listen!


I curtsy.:lookout:


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Cloverdale said:


> I curtsy.:lookout:


You also contribute. Don't sell yourself short.

Regarding BM, I contacted one of my local distributors. Looks like I will be placing a much larger order than I had anticipated. Gotta get it while there is something left to get. Starting to familiarize myself with the Mann-Lake catalogue.


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## Jim Hancock (Dec 30, 2016)

New Columbia, PA store had notice posted on front door.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

> Curiouser and curiouser, Brushy has also been disappeared from the list of
> "our companies" and even "former companies" at Haldey Capital, the "private
> equity" firm that bought the business from Steve and Sandy Forrest in 2014.


Even as just a few days ago, Brushy's website suggested that the Forest family still owned Brushy, so I was surprised to see Hadley Capital listed as the true owner.

And yes, a review of the Hadley Capital website from 4/28/18 (courtesy of Archive.org) shows this ...


([SUP]Click image to enlarge[/SUP])

And here is the current Hadley page:


([SUP]Click image to enlarge[/SUP])

Note that Brushy Mtn shows up in the 1st screenshot, but not the 2nd.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Soon, duplicate post


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## edzkoda (Aug 9, 2014)

TNValleyBeeK said:


> It's not really a big shocker, I mean in the grand scheme of things it's not a big market and it looks to be very competitive. Just like beekeeping, if it's not owned and operated by a very tight hardworking family or at least a very determined owner in which the bees are their life then it's very likely not going to prosper. Theres not enough $ to go around with that many hands in the cookie jar. I'm sure there's exceptions to the rule but this is a not an industry with endless possibilities.


Isnt Mann Lake employee owned as well. They seem to be doing well.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

edzkoda said:


> Isnt Mann Lake employee owned as well. They seem to be doing well.


Mann Lake is no longer employee owned. It’s owned by a holding company (not sure which one).


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

edzkoda said:


> Isnt Mann Lake employee owned as well. They seem to be doing well.


I think so.


Edit.
Time to do some research in light of snl's claim.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

JWPalmer said:


> I think so.
> 
> 
> Edit.
> Time to do some research in light of snl's claim.


The sale may not been “consummated “ but it’s either happened (and that’s an old label) or close to happening.


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## edzkoda (Aug 9, 2014)

That's a shame.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Label is not too old, its a shot of the top of the 2018 catalogue. Anyhow, may not be a fully done deal yet. The BBB still shows Jack Thomas as owner and Linked In still carries the "Employee Owned" phrase. Both may not be up with the times however. Info on privately held companies is less readily available. You were correct about BM, no reason to start doubting you now.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Jack “passed” months ago.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Oops. Starting to make more sense now. I do remember reading about Jack's "passing' back in Sept. but it did not register as part of this discussion. Please keep us advised.


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## texanbelchers (Aug 4, 2014)

It looks like ML initiated an Employee Stock Ownership Plan in 2000. https://www.brightscope.com/form-55...Employee-Stock-Ownership-Plan-And-Trust/2016/


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## Hops Brewster (Jun 17, 2014)

snl said:


> Now where will we obtain LEGAL Oxalic acid? I’m sure some enterprising company will pick it up. But in the meantime, those who care about using the legal Oxalic acid can buy it from the other companies that still have a supply they bought from BM.


Florida Laboratories is a manufacturer of OA. When you order OA from them, they include the correct and LEGAL miticide label. 
Please note: Oxalic Acid is a _generic commodity_, therefore, BM _does not_ own the exclusive rights to that label.
BM was not the only ones selling OA with the legal label. Check out Dadant.


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## orthoman (Feb 23, 2013)

Deleted


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Hops Brewster said:


> BM was not the only ones selling OA with the legal label. Check out Dadant.


Dadant was reselling the Brushy Mtn product, complete with a Brushy Mtn label. See the photo of that here:
https://www.dadant.com/catalog/medications/oxalic-acid-m01758

[hr] [/hr]

And for those of you that think the closing only involves the Oregon BM store, just go to the Brushy Mtn website: https://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/

Its been in that "maintenance mode" since last Friday.

Also, earlier in this thread is posted a photo of the sign on the door of the PA store. See post #58 or click here : https://www.beesource.com/forums/sh...sing&p=1679527&highlight=columbia#post1679527


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Hops Brewster said:


> Florida Laboratories is a manufacturer of OA.


I'll admit that I was skeptical that there is another properly registered [manufacturer] of "oxalic acid as a varroa pesticide" (like Brushy Mountain is/was). While Brushy didn't actually manufacture the OA, they got it from a contract manufacturer and jumped through the legal hoops to have it registered under the Brushy Mtn name in each state they sold it in.

So in researching the appropriate registered pesticide database, I see there is indeed a second vendor now registered for oxalic acid. For instance, from the Florida listing;

(click to enlarge)

For those that wish to do a search for other states, here is the database link:
http://npirspublic.ceris.purdue.edu/state/default.aspx

The EPA number for oxalic acid as a pesticide is 91266-1. At the database linked above, type in "91266" in the 1st part of the Registration Number Box, and "1" in the 2nd part of the box. Leave the 3rd part of the box blank.

) Larry, it seems the state of SC is not contributing data to that site, but NC also does show with OA registered by "CHEMICALS LAIF 712 FIFTH ST STE A C/O TSG, INC. DAVIS CA 95616") 

TSG in Davis CA appears to just be a stalking horse for "CHEMICALS LAIF", and guess what ... "Chemicals Laif S.P.A." are also hooked up with "Api Life Var" :shhhh: which is another registered varroa pesticide.

They are an Italian company: http://chemicalslaif.it/it/homepage/
That webite appears to be Italian language only, but Google Translate may be of assistance. In any case, I expect that an English language Oxalic Acid Registered Pesticide from those folks will soon be promoted by the remaining bee supply houses - like Mann Lake.

[hr] [/hr]
But I have seen no evidence that Florida Laboratories has a *registered* oxalic acid product available for sale in the USA. They certainly do not show up in the list of OA products registered in Florida.
.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> and guess what ... "Chemicals Laif S.P.A." are also hooked up with "Api Life Var" which is another registered varroa pesticide..


Guess who the US importer of ApiLife Var is (was)?


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

not Brushy Mountain?


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Here is the EPA document from 2006 that references Brushy Mtn as the registrant for ApiLife Var:
https://www3.epa.gov/pesticides/chem_search/ppls/073291-00001-20061109.pdf

And here is the tie to Chemicals Saif S.P.A. as the actual manufacturer:
https://www.allategeszsegugy.hu/cus...3084937c8a207b0804c28b665_Apilife var eng.pdf


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Gypsi said:


> not Brushy Mountain?


Just so there's no confusion....we're talking about ApiLife Var...not Apivar.


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## Hobo (Mar 4, 2014)

This morning I drove over to my local Brushy Mountain distributor and stocked up on woodenware. The owner confirmed that Brushy Mountain has closed. They were given no advance warning and found out about the closing on Friday. They are now scrambling to find another supplier. 

I guess there were a few clues that something was amiss at BM. This distributor ordered from BM quarterly. Orders used to be filled promptly. Lately there were more and more backorders. Apparently BM made woodenware to order rather than keeping it in stock.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

The Brushy Mtn "primary" location was pretty far up the 'mountain' outside of Wilkesboro NC. to get there from US421 in Wilkesboro, its a twisty, slow, steep road. I imagine that the UPS semi drivers didn't particularly enjoy that trip.

A few years ago Brushy opened a manufacturing facility (wood shop, and perhaps more) "down the hill" in North Wilkesboro just off US421. Article link: https://www.journalpatriot.com/news...cle_50ce0462-d426-11e2-95be-001a4bcf6878.html

While there are pluses to a modern facility designed for manufacturing, having it 20-30 minutes away (by car, likely longer by truck) also introduces management/supervisory issues, and means inventory in two locations. It also means complications in in shipping to customers, as either all the woodenware gets hauled up the hill to ship consolidated customer orders, or else there are *two* packages/shipments when there could have been just one. Not good when Brushy Mtn is on the hook for paying for customers' "free" shipping, especially if competitors can do a single package/shipment for equivalent goods.


Oh ... I just noticed this ... Google Maps is now reporting Brushy Mtn as "permanently closed":
https://www.google.com/maps/place/B...8ee62f111d1c7e!8m2!3d36.0675386!4d-81.1211478


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## Diptera (Nov 10, 2016)

This stinks. All my equipment is BM and i have always had good experiences with them. 
My wife juat got me a gift certificate in October for our anniversary. They better honor it. 
Where are some of the distributors? I am in NC and always got it from the main base.


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## capitalbeesupply (Jul 28, 2013)

May not be Hadley's list of companies anymore, but they still have a page header with an image of Brushy Mountain.


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## zonedar (May 14, 2015)

Looks like Ruhl is going to try to regroup and start up again. 

From Ruhl's web site:

"Ruhl Bee Supply 
(Oregon division of Brushy Mountain Bee Farm) has temporarily stopped operations due to Brushy Mountain Bee Farm closing for business. Stand by for updates as the Ruhl Bee team regroups to serve our Northwest community"

Link

Fingers crossed for them!


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## Jim_in_PA (May 17, 2016)

Diptera said:


> This stinks. All my equipment is BM and i have always had good experiences with them.
> My wife juat got me a gift certificate in October for our anniversary. They better honor it.
> Where are some of the distributors? I am in NC and always got it from the main base.


I suggest you not hold your breath about the value of your gift certificate...even a distributor may not accept it because they know they will not get the money from the company if it's shut down.


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## Diptera (Nov 10, 2016)

Jim_in_PA said:


> I suggest you not hold your breath about the value of your gift certificate...even a distributor may not accept it because they know they will not get the money from the company if it's shut down.



Yeah, that was my gut feeling. Oooof. That is NOT going to sit well with the wife. Not that I am happy about it.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

If the gift certificate was funded by a credit card purchase, contact the issuing card company to see if there is a possibility of recovering those funds, but do not delay as it may already be past the window of opportunity.

And while gift certificates are only a 'general' obligation (not a 'secured' obligation), a valid debt still exists. Depending on what assets remain from the Brushy Mountain corporation, and what claims are higher in priority, there is a possibility of getting at least a partial refund. I wouldn't be holding my breath on this part, though.

.


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## Hive5ive (Nov 21, 2015)

Wow, that's hard to believe BM is closed! I did buy some queen rearing supplies from them last spring. Mann Lake, even though my primary supplier didn't have what I needed. I carry all ML stuff in the store/website but BM had some really hard to find stuff. I feel for everyone who has used BM as their primary supplier, sometimes other manufacturers equipment won't match up well. Side note: Hey John here is your opportunity to buy them out and upscale your building operation! 😉


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## SSCBees (Jun 17, 2016)

There’s lots of other large and small dealers throughout the southeast and mid-Atlantic. Some even have brick and mortar storefronts and offer free shipping at certain thresholds , too. We’ll all be fine.


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

zonedar said:


> Looks like Ruhl is going to try to regroup and start up again.
> 
> From Ruhl's web site:
> 
> ...


:thumbsup:
still hope for a local glass supplier.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Hive5ive said:


> Hey John here is your opportunity to buy them out and upscale your building operation! &#55357;&#56841;


I'm afraid a move to NC is not in my future. But building more woodenware this winter is. Let me know if you need anything.

Just placed an order for frames from ML (at about half the price I was paying BM) Who else sells Acorn foundation? ML carries Rite-cell and I prefer to use Acorn.

Edit: Update. So I placed the order for 150 frames yesterday after hours via the web. I just got the FedEx tracking info advising that my order will be delivered tomorrow. With BM, I would not have even received an order confirmation for another two or three days. Maybe this won't be such a bad thing after all.


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## e-spice (Sep 21, 2013)

JWPalmer said:


> Just placed an order for frames from ML (at about half the price I was paying BM) Who else sells Acorn foundation? ML carries Rite-cell and I prefer to use Acorn.


I think Rite-cell is pretty good but prefer Acorn a little more. https://www.lappesbeesupply.com/ sells Acorn.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

JWPalmer said:


> Just placed an order for frames from ML (at about half the price I was paying BM) Who else sells Acorn foundation? ML carries Rite-cell and I prefer to use Acorn.


I believe that Mann Lake offers some plastic foundation with extra heavy wax coatings.


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## OC_Bees (Jul 4, 2014)

A great supplier is Miller Bee Supply in Wilkesboro, NC. Beverly Miller (the owner) is a wonderful person. I am sure they will absorb some of the business that BM left with them shutting down.


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

http://www.acornbee.com/ 

You can also purchase direct @ the above link. Nice people.

Alex


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## Lastfling (Feb 5, 2016)

OC_Bees said:


> A great supplier is Miller Bee Supply in Wilkesboro, NC. Beverly Miller (the owner) is a wonderful person. I am sure they will absorb some of the business that BM left with them shutting down.


I second this... I was just up there the other day buying some wooden ware. They are great people to deal with in my experience.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Just wanted to pass this along. On of the reasons I liked BM so much, and was willing to pay the price, was the quality of their woodenware. Well, the frames I just got from ML are exactly the same as what BM was selling, and at a better price. Whew! I have a few frames, don't know from where, but they are less than "quality" IMO. 

Miller Bee ought to strike while the iron is hot and take out an ad here on Beesource.


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

beterbee in ny sells acorn foundation, betterbee also owns humble-abodes in maine the large woodenware mfg.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

mathesonequip said:


> beterbee in ny sells acorn foundation, betterbee also owns humble-abodes in maine the large woodenware mfg.


 And just today Mann Lake acquired Kelley Beekeeping (“Kelley”), based in Clarkson, KY, from Frandsen Corporation. As part of the Kelley acquisition, Mann Lake is partnering with Frandsen-owned Miller Manufacturing to offer beekeeping supplies into their distribution chain.

https://www.marketwatch.com/press-r...ers-and-acquires-kelley-beekeeping-2018-11-14


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Mann Lake is now the “Amazon” of beekeeping.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

It wouldn't surprise me if Hadley was aware of the impending Mann Lake management buyout / acquisition of Kelley Beekeeping involving financing from Grey Mountain Partners, and decided that the competition was going to crush Brushy Mtn, which precipitated the BM shutdown. Further, I'll speculate that Hadley tried to shop Brushy Mtn to Grey Mountain before Hadley decided to pull the plug.


And regarding Mann Lake, don't overlook that Mann Lake also "owns and operates D&I Pure Sweeteners, a leading processor and distributor of sugar."
http://www.dipuresweeteners.com/index.html


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Wonder if ML will keep the Kelley name intact or absorb it. Time will tell.


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## aran (May 20, 2015)

I just took a look at miller bee supply. Prices are not bad but shipping is not free. Guess i will stick with my local bee supply show ( Hungry bear farms in Canadaigua NY, ) or ML for online shopping.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>A great supplier is Miller Bee Supply in Wilkesboro, NC. Beverly Miller (the owner) is a wonderful person. I am sure they will absorb some of the business that BM left with them shutting down.

Most of my boxes are from them. They used to make all the equipment for Brushy Mountain before Brushy Mountain started making their own.


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## smsmkiwi (May 21, 2017)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> I'll admit that I was skeptical that there is another properly registered [manufacturer] of "oxalic acid as a varroa pesticide" (like Brushy Mountain is/was). While Brushy didn't actually manufacture the OA, they got it from a contract manufacturer and jumped through the legal hoops to have it registered under the Brushy Mtn name in each state they sold it in.
> 
> So in researching the appropriate registered pesticide database, I see there is indeed a second vendor now registered for oxalic acid. For instance, from the Florida listing;
> 
> ...




Oxalic Acid treatment for bees is very very easy to make yourself. I wouldn't even consider buying it from a vendor. Just buy the crystals and mix it with water and sugar (for dribble) or put the crystals in a vaporizer. Many many treatments for $10.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

smsmkiwi said:


> Oxalic Acid treatment for bees is very very easy to make yourself. I wouldn't even consider buying it from a vendor. Just buy the crystals and mix it with water and sugar (for dribble) or put the crystals in a vaporizer. Many many treatments for $10.


You're still buying OA from a vendor whether it's the legally labeled OA or not...….


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## smsmkiwi (May 21, 2017)

snl said:


> You're still buying OA from a vendor whether it's the legally labeled OA or not...….



No, I did not. I bought the OA (99.8% pure) from a chemical lab supply company, Eisen-Golden Laboratories. If you can make a cup of instant coffee, you can make your own OA dribble or just put the crystals straight into the vaporizer.


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## Hive5ive (Nov 21, 2015)

I think the point is whether or not your OA is labeled correctly as a pesticide or just labeled as OA (generic labeled).


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## Hive5ive (Nov 21, 2015)

Side note: I can make ant poison from boric acid and sugar water but the boric acid is not labeled as a pesticide. (It also makes good shb poison)


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

smsmkiwi said:


> No, I did not. I bought the OA (99.8% pure) from a chemical lab supply company


ven·dor
/ˈvendər,ˈvenˌdôr/Submit
noun
a person or company offering something for sale


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## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

A Receiver has been appointed, so liquidation of the assets seems to be the agenda. 

"Brushy Mountain borrowed $6.9 million in the loans from Enterprise in 2014 and made its scheduled payments until it defaulted this past Sept. 30 by missing a payment, stated a complaint filed by Enterprise with the motion for a receiver on Nov. 16.... defaulted on an unpaid balance of more than $4.3 million..."

https://www.journalpatriot.com/news...cle_c0c88f0c-f7cb-11e8-adac-4bfc157f9d5f.html

https://tinyurl.com/ybs9t8oe


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## Steve in PA (Jan 26, 2015)

That fits with what I saw at the local store, a very poorly run company.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

"Brushy Mountain Bee Farm, one of the largest beekeeping equipment suppliers in the nation"
Was this true? How did it compare to Mann lake and others?


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## mtnmyke (Apr 27, 2017)

CRAZY to hear they are gone! They made beautiful stuff but I just couldn't afford it on my scale. As such, I was left doing bulk orders from Mann Lake.

How do other suppliers compare to Mann Lake? I try to shop around here and there, but as they have a warehouse a couple hours north, I get free shipping, and it shows up overnight. Hard to beat.


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## e-spice (Sep 21, 2013)

mtnmyke said:


> CRAZY to hear they are gone! They made beautiful stuff but I just couldn't afford it on my scale.


I agree. Some of their equipment was made very well but it was getting more and more expensive. If I'm not mistaken, medium frames had risen to $1.75 each and select medium supers were pushing (if not over) $20 each. I bought most of my equipment from them several years back and hate to see them go but can see how it happened with those prices.


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## Dmlehman (May 30, 2015)

I liked Brushy Mountain a lot. Shane was great to me. About a week ago activity showed up on my credit card for Brushy Mountain. Concerned at first, but turned it out they credited me for a store credit I had for returning some nuc boxes last year. I didn't ask for them to issue the credit. They just did it because they operated an honest business. It is a shame they are shutting down.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

snl said:


> Wonder if ML will keep the Kelley name intact or absorb it. Time will tell.


ML WILL keep the Kelley name...for now.


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## Bee Draggle (Apr 5, 2006)

mtnmyke said:


> CRAZY to hear they are gone! They made beautiful stuff but I just couldn't afford it on my scale. As such, I was left doing bulk orders from Mann Lake.
> 
> How do other suppliers compare to Mann Lake? I try to shop around here and there, but as they have a warehouse a couple hours north, I get free shipping, and it shows up overnight. Hard to beat.


Does ML charge sales to tax to out of state buyers? It all has to figure in to what your're actually paying for your supplies.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Bee Draggle said:


> Does ML charge sales to tax to out of state buyers?


It depends on the definition of "out of state". 

If you are in a state that has a state sales tax, AND Mann Lake has "nexus" (more or less, a physical presence), then ML will have to collect sales tax on that sale to you.

Mann Lake has facilities in several states outside of their headquarters state of Minnesota. There is a branch in Woodland CA and in Wilkes-Barre, PA, so buyers in those states are also subject to ML collecting sales tax.

Beyond that it gets complicated. Mann Lake also owns a "sweeteners" company that has locations in several other states (Florida & Texas) where ML does not have "bee supply" branches. Whether that fulfills the legal definition of "nexus" is not clear to me, and probably best answered by asking ML directly.

Note that it is not always obvious why a vendor tries to collect sales tax when making an online purchase. I have in the past bought from Zoro.com, and was flummoxed as to why I was getting charged sales tax even though Zoro has no facilities in Tennessee, and ships to me from South Carolina. Finally I called Customer Service, and they explained that Zoro.com is owned by Grainger, who of course does have facilities in Tennessee.


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## Gino45 (Apr 6, 2012)

Mann Lake has certainly been the up and comer in the bee supply business.............just happening to coincide with the growth of small hobby beekeepers.
Not surprising that this is happening what with national shipping. More and more, it seems, the small guys have a difficult time competing with the 'amazons' in whatever field.


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## CLSranch (May 15, 2017)

Mann Lake vs Lappe's? I've only used Brushy MT for boxes and other hardware. I've used Lappe's for novelty things. Honey spoons, recipe books, etc... 

Which asking to the more seasoned beeks is of quality and price until I can get better woodworking equipment. 

Also I live in OK if that may matter for shipping and time of delivery.


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## knengli (Jul 19, 2014)

Yes but their quality was exceptional.


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## Chicago_ks (Feb 27, 2018)

Bee Draggle said:


> Does ML charge sales to tax to out of state buyers? It all has to figure in to what your're actually paying for your supplies.


It won't be too long until sales tax will be charged on most internet sales. South Dakota made a law that required collection of sales tax on internet orders. It went to the Supreme Court. This article gives a pretty good explanation of the ruling.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/greats...rts-internet-sales-tax-decision/#60fa939a3fbe

ks


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Mann Lake has purchased all the assets of BM (except land)........now who would have guessed that?


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Anyone know what Shane will do?


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## Steve in PA (Jan 26, 2015)

I don't like that their customer list was either sold or taken. I'm getting emails from a former employee that is starting their own store. That is good, but my information being out there without my authorization is not.


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## AstroZomBEE (Aug 1, 2006)

Steve, are you talking about Jim Wilson?

I just saw in another list about https://wilsonbeekeeping.com/


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## Steve in PA (Jan 26, 2015)

Yes


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## SWM (Nov 17, 2009)

I have nothing against Mann Lake but I try to give Dadant the biggest share of my business. They are the only ones left standing out of the big operations that are still family owned and operated. The only one that benefits from one company buying the others is the company doing the buying. Less competition is not good for beekeepers.


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## KevinWI (Mar 18, 2018)

SWM said:


> I have nothing against Mann Lake but I try to give Dadant the biggest share of my business. They are the only ones left standing out of the big operations that are still family owned and operated. The only one that benefits from one company buying the others is the company doing the buying. Less competition is not good for beekeepers.


I've attempted many times to buy from Dadant....but I'm also a frugal shopper...if I can get the same thing for less....then that's what I'm going to do.


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## HONEYGUY1973 (Jan 31, 2018)

KevinWI said:


> I've attempted many times to buy from Dadant....but I'm also a frugal shopper...if I can get the same thing for less....then that's what I'm going to do.


I agree. Dadant acts like they could care less about my business on large orders so if they go by the wayside nothing lost here. Dadant does not keep up with the times . People are searching multiple sites and checking prices in this volatile market. Mann Lake has my business til they start screwing up . Dadant and Kelley are the Sears and J.C. Penney of beekeeping and Mann Lake is the Amazon.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

HONEYGUY1973 said:


> Dadant and Kelley are the Sears and J.C. Penney of beekeeping and Mann Lake is the Amazon.


Not quite. Kelley is now owned by Mann Lake. 

Here is one article: https://www.beeculture.com/catch-the-buzz-mann-lake-acquires-kelley-beekeeping-2018/


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## HONEYGUY1973 (Jan 31, 2018)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> Not quite. Kelley is now owned by Mann Lake.
> 
> Here is one article: https://www.beeculture.com/catch-the-buzz-mann-lake-acquires-kelley-beekeeping-2018/


Yes I knew that . Why do you think they got bought out? They didn’t keep up with their customer base . Thats why! Brushy the most highly overpriced same thing .. If you don’t keep up with your customer base and offer free shipping you will not make it in this business.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Michael Palmer said:


> Anyone know what Shane will do?


I've "heard" he's doing "nothing" at the moment. I've also "heard" that he's declined a job offer...


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## dryflies (Nov 25, 2016)

Wanted to let everyone know that BM had an online auction going on that started today. Iron horse auctions. It ends in 6 days.


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