# Tiny swarm with queen, nuub needs help.



## toekneepea (Jul 7, 2010)

If it were me, I'd make a follower board (inner wall) to decrease the width of the hive to only a few frames so that they only have a little space.

Maybe try open feeding them, or give them a candy board / sugar brick.

Good luck,
Tony P.


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## nwvandersys (Nov 20, 2012)

They were active with some of the honey water that I dripped on the hive rack. What is the best way to open feed? Should the follower board go all the way from the inner cover to the bottom board?

Thanks,
Nick


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

I would not open feed. If you only have a boardman feeder, put it in a box on top of the inner cover with the outer cover over it, sealed so that no bees can get in.

Feed them part of a protein patty and as much 1:1 syrup as they will take. Chances are they will build up, although slowly, since you won't have winter like we have up here. White sugar is just fine, less likely to ferment, and they will be out foraging some anyway.

Worst case they will die out after drawing some comb, and you will have nice drawn comb for next time.

Peter


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## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

I would turn that entrance reducer to its smallest opening. 

Peter has described a good way to use the boardman feeder, do it. Feed, feed, feed! Here is a good link about feeding. I wouldn't be surprised if they make it....


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## Colleen O. (Jun 5, 2012)

You might want to check the swarms and trap-out section for the cleo hogan trap-out method if you want to get more bees from the original hive to bolster the numbers of your swarm.


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## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

Good idea, but his new colony needs something to anchor them to that new hive....That means comb and eggs, that will take a few days to get started. Don't move them until they are anchored to that hive box.


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## mmmooretx (Jun 4, 2012)

I did a hive rescue a couple of weeks ago and it was about 2 lbs . maybe. I ended up putting the pieces of recovered comb into 3 deep foundationless frames with rubber bands, then put 2 frames of plasticell in between them in a plywood 5 frame NUC. I put a 1 qt. Mason jar feeder. They are now foraging on warmer days and doing some comb building. On a warm day, deer season, non weekend, I will do a better inspection.
I am feeding 1:1 with Honey Bee Healthy and Amino B Booster, plus Mega Bee patties (1/3). I hope to nurse them through winter to move them into a 10 frame hive.
Yes feed to build them up! Inspect sparingly.

Update the NUC is in the background of the first picture of a set in the picture forum .
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?276035-Frame-photostand&p=869094#post869094


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## nwvandersys (Nov 20, 2012)

I put the feeder on the far right side of the hive (where the cluster is located), and I had reduced the entrance to 1" x 3/8" b y the end of the day Sunday. Can I make a protein patty or do I need to get them from somewhere? I like the idea of the Cleo Hogan trapout; wouldn't be able to get the queen (I have no brood) but could gain another hive from it.

One of the great things about a screened bottom board and being 2' off the ground is that you can observe without disturbing from beneath.

Today they consumed about 1/4 cup of 1:1


Nick


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

i asked once about diluting honey down with water, and was told that it would start to ferment quickly after adding the water. maybe not a problem if they don't take long to empty it.


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

Diluted honey will ferment quite quickly because it inevitably has some yeast in it. Fermentation is inhibited by the lack of water, so when you add water they take off.

Syrup on the other hand will not have more than a very few live yeast cells, literally whatever falls into it while you make it or is in the water -- the sugar is boiled down out of solution, no live yeast in it when packaged.

You can make protein supplement from de-fatted soy flour, syrup, and brewer's yeast, or just order some pollen supplement from any of the major suppliers. Plain de-fatted soy flour will work in a pinch, just mix with syrup to make a thick past that will stay put on the top bars. I'd not feed more than 1/4 lb of it at a time, you are far enough south to be in prime small hive beetle territory, and you don't need an explosion of SHB in a tiny hive.

I was talking to a neighbor a few miles away at a social function, and he said he got a number of calls this fall in September for small swarms, about soft ball sized. Never had that happen before, and he got a kick out of the 9 lb swarm a buddy caught this spring. Must have been a huge hive.

Anyway, it's very hard for us to get a swarm that size into wintering condition here in a month. Even in a nuc box they would need a at least a couple frames of winter bees and a couple frames of honey, and that won't happen when our first frost date is Oct 15, they'd only be able to raise one round of brood in that time.

Good luck -- sometimes those small, oddball swarms turn into monster honey producers.

Peter


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## nwvandersys (Nov 20, 2012)

Tomorrow I will swap out the honey for sugar water. The honey that I fed was honey that neither my wife nor I enjoyed the flavor of and was happy to be rid of it. I did have concerns about fermentation and so held it at 140* for about ten minutes and boiled the lid and jar. I moved the feeder to an empty super above them with a inner cover between, I drilled a 1 1/2" hole for them to get to it. This morning about 20% of the bees returning from the field had considerable amounts of pollen, I feel more confident that they will do well knowing that they have at least some source of protein. When I get paid next week I will order some Ener-G-Plus from Brushy Mountain. I am also going to get a veil, and along with some other things a cardboard Nuc to use to "borrow" some of the field force from the hive in the wall a the church. They have managed to draw almost half a frame of comb. It looks nice and straight. I don't think that they have really figured out where the feeder is yet so I dripped some syrup through the hole on to the frames underneath, this seemed to have helped them find it. 

Nick


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## nwvandersys (Nov 20, 2012)

Duplicate


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## nwvandersys (Nov 20, 2012)

Quick update on our little hive here in Florida. I've moved them to 2:1 based on a suggestion from Broodhead and I ended up purchasing 5lbs of MegaBee from Dadant. They have been taking anywhere from half a pint to a pint and a half depending on the day. I have yet to see a single egg from our queen, which does concern me. I had severely overestimated the amount of comb that the had made a week ago and did another inspection today. The hive that they had swarmed from has abandoned their home in the block wall of our church. I am mad that I did not do something to capture them sooner but have been pretty busy lately. Here are some pictures of there current progress.

































http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-iEpGM0Q5BKQ/ULFk5omklSI/AAAAAAAACKA/N7Q1hO2SlIE/s1600/queenbee.JPG


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## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

I see capped brood on the foundation-free frame, so the queen has deposited some eggs anyway. Keep feeding and try to leave them undisturbed for a couple weeks. The bees might make it through the winter IF you can continue feeding through any cold spells. A thinner syrup will stimulate more comb building, also, make the entrance one drone bee wide.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Supplement them with bees and sealed brood from another hive.


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## Colleen O. (Jun 5, 2012)

Definitely brood on both sides of the frame of their own drawn comb. Their honey has nice white cappings (top of the frame) and the brood has the off white (center). I couldn't see any eggs but look close at a good picture and you might. They look like tiny grains of rice standing straight up in the bottom center of a cell. After they hatch the bees add royal jelly which looks like a milky white fluid in the cell bottom. It looks like they are trying to make it. Keep feeding them the pollen pattie, they need it for the brood.


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## tommyt (Aug 7, 2010)

You do have brood 
Leave them alone 
I know its hard 
They will build and do more without being opened 
You set them back when inspecting 
Its hard when new but try


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## Bees In Miami (Nov 30, 2012)

There are 9 registered beeks in Vero Beach...See the attached...

http://www.freshfromflorida.com/pi/plantinsp/apiary/Registered-Florida-Beekeepers_0612.pdf

Although you still need to do some leg work to contact them, perhaps one of them would be willing to sell you a frame or two?? Even just a couple of frames of drawn comb would be a help for them. Those poor girls have a LOT of work ahead! 

I also totally agree with the follower board (inside wall). Bees like to be tight together. I would definately reduce the space they 'see' so they are less overwhelmed. I would put a frame with foundation on either side of the cluster, then close off the rest of the hive until they have had time to fill their space. It is a lot less territory for them to have to defend, as well. Just my two cents! Keep us posted.


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

Looks great!

Button them up, keep feeding, and leave them alone -- too risky to keep peeking in with that small a cluster!

You can gauge progress easily if you have a screened bottom board, as the bees constantly drop bits of wax and debris. If you keep the board dry, you can pull it out and brush off the stuff once a week or so, and the fresh trash will tell you how much room they are using. You will have new bees emerging in a couple weeks, hopefully that will mean faster comb building and more brood!

Peter


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## nwvandersys (Nov 20, 2012)

A follower board has been installed to limited them to 3 frames, and the entrance has been reduced to slightly larger than a bee space square. Crappy weather has kept them in this week. 

Nick


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## Bees In Miami (Nov 30, 2012)

How did they look when you added the follower? Colony increased at all yet? Brood should be hatching well by now. Patience grasshopper...let 'em do their thing, and feed feed feed!  Will be looking for updates in a month or so... Good luck!


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## nwvandersys (Nov 20, 2012)

Some of the brood has begun to hatch, I can tell because the previously capped brood cells are now open, and have small larvae in them. They are going through about a pint of 1:1 a day. Any suggestions for feeding Mega-Bee dry? I've made up some small patties (about 2oz each) but they don't seem interested in it.

Nick


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

you can probably put the dry powder right on top of the top bars. I know some people do that.


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