# new 7% tax on almond pollinators



## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

a post on bee-l by randy oliver says that for next year calif. has put in place a 7% tax on out of state pollinators, collected by the almond farmer.



http://community.lsoft.com/scripts/wa-LSOFTDONATIONS.exe?A2=BEE-L;33cf0a8c.1004c


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

:scratch:
That will open a can of worms.
Forms 1040F, Form 1099, and now Form 540.
The state must have been looking at all those U-Tube videos that show those late model trucks with a lot of crome!

Ernie


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

Just wait till the counties hear this, they are going to want their property tax too. If your bees are in California on Jan. 01 they are supposed to be reported on the ag property statement.


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

I can tell you I am not going to take a 7% hit on hive rentals so the almond farmers are going to have to pay it. If I were an almond farmer I would be worried about these regulations (and others) keeping out of staters out and further causing a shortage of bees on almonds. The next annual Almond board meeting should be interesting. I would be interested in attending Tom, so if you get that info could you pass it along.

Thanks

On a side note. I am wondering about farmers collecting the tax for the bees. Since the farmer is not an "agent" of the state is this legal? I guess this is a subject for another time...but really could be interesting.


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

What is the justification for the tax on pollinators.? Without the almonds CA is in <trouble>. So they need the pollinators. Just driving up the price of the nuts.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

California is just doing what it does best. Grabbing business money with both hands.


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

It's not new, this has been bandied around before, some beekeeps have paid this for years on the advice of their accountants. It's called state income tax. Not sure how much debate it is subject to.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

As I suspected. It's a tax on income. So why are the growers supposed to collect the tax instead of requiring the pollinators to file income taxes in CA? Not that I'm suggesting that. Maybe I shouldn't have brought it up.


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## DRUR (May 24, 2009)

Guess payment will be required in advance, with a contract on amount. If the full amount isn't paid, then the contract won't be fulfilled, and the bees won't be delivered. I would like to see the Calif. state tax collectors come get me in Texas. They better come with body bags.

Also, I doubt that the State can tax non residents, and would also be an infringement of the interstate commerce clause. 

I was hoping to get enough colonies built up for pollination contract in Calif., but this won't happen now.


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

DRUR said:


> Also, I doubt that the State can tax non residents, and would also be an infringement of the interstate commerce clause. /QUOTE]
> 
> You are not engaging in interstate commerce. You are entering the State of California to perform services within the state. I don't see anything new here. It's as if I commuted into Massachussets to work. I would be subject to their income tax regulations and my employer would be required to collect it.
> 
> ...


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## DRUR (May 24, 2009)

waynesgarden said:


> DRUR said:
> 
> 
> > I'd consult a constitutional (and tax) authority before I go get fitted for a body bag.
> ...


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## JPK (May 24, 2008)

BUT regarding the 7% Cali Tax you should be able to deduct it from your taxes in your state of residence provided you live in a state that has an income tax.


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## Skinner Apiaries (Sep 1, 2009)

This is funny. Who's going to enforce this? They can TRY to impound your bees. They can TRY to come get you 3000 miles away. They can try to enforce fireant and beetle laws. They can TRY to spend money they dont have, but it dosent really matter. The harder they try the harder they lose. Almond guys need us alot more than california needs their 7%. And Im pretty sure that the pay will reflect that 7% increase


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Hey its really great that you guys are gonna help us out here with our little deficit. It costs a lot to have good highways for your semis to come in on, and bug stations aren't cheap either!

Thanks again(in advance).:applause:


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## soupcan (Jan 2, 2005)

Come on guys, Get with the program!!!
SHARE YOUR WEALTH!!!


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

soupcan said:


> Come on guys, Get with the program!!!
> SHARE YOUR WEALTH!!!


I really dont understand how the almond growers will be able to enfore this 7% tax less they straight up stiff the beekeeper on their second "LATE" payment and send that 7% to the state. Then again who's to say they just wont keep the 6.5% in their pocket and tell the state they didnt do very much pollination due to the lack of water or what have you.


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

If you had ever written a paycheck you would know exactly how it's done. Withholding columns.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Tom G. Laury said:


> . Withholding columns.


Yeah, That's what my wife says when she gives me my weekly allowance. lol


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## throrope (Dec 18, 2008)

Shouldn't this become a credit against your home state taxes?


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## Bodo (Mar 11, 2008)

I haven't seen anything solid on this tax. Is it just a worry or has Cali actually passed this?


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

There is nothing to pass. The 7% is not on bees, it is on income. State income tax, it's called. Been in force here for a long time most states have similar.

The tax on bees is county unsecured personal property. All ag property owners are required to file an Ag Property Statement each year listing improvements, livestock, equipment and so on. If the bees are in the county on Jan.01 they are supposed to be listed by the landowner.


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## StevenG (Mar 27, 2009)

And the CA income tax paid would not be deducted in your home state of Texas or (last I knew) Florida, because those states have no state income tax. :applause:


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Tom G. Laury said:


> If the bees are in the county on Jan.01 they are supposed to be listed by the landowner.


And if they are in the state for less than 6 weeks, what then?


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

I have no idea Mark but why do you ask? Under what scenario would they be in California on Jan. 01 but not 6 weeks later? I don't understand the question very well.


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## beedeetee (Nov 27, 2004)

I live in Washington where there is no income tax. We have a business within a couple of miles of Oregon which does have an income tax. If we physically go into Oregon to do work we have to withhold income tax from employees that go there. If we can do work (design work like engineering design or architectural design) while physically in Washington we don't.

So I can see where California would want you to pay income tax to them rather than your home state while you are in California. They may be telling the growers to withhold income tax from beekeepers. Then you have to file a California income tax form to try to get it back. 

I am only speculating as I personally have no idea what California tax rules are.


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

Nobody respects and appreciates Randy Oliver more than I, but until I see some proof of this supposed action, I'm calling B.S. on this entire thread.
Randy is bright but also has an excellant sence of humor; APRIL FOOLS!!!!
Go to the CA Tax website and search.
I see nothING,,NOTHING!!!!!

:no:


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## Tucker1 (Apr 2, 2010)

The company that I work for has to pay a special tax to California when they participate in a California trade show or convention. This is beyond the sales tax that California receives when our product is sold in California, by one of our distributors.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Tom G. Laury said:


> I have no idea Mark but why do you ask? Under what scenario would they be in California on Jan. 01 but not 6 weeks later? I don't understand the question very well.


I guess, since i don't have any experience w/ almond pollination, I was thinking about the pollination I do have experience w/, which is apples in NY. My hives are in the orchards for hardly more than 3 weeks.

Knowing beekeepers here in SC who get there bees back from CA some time mid March, I believe, How long do hives need to be in CA? I don't understand how CA can tax an out of state service provider for providing that service. But I guess they can. I wonder if they do do this, if we will see other states doing this also? NY perhaps? Or Maine?


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## 123456789 (May 24, 2009)

t: but only a little. A lot of states are trying to tax pro athletes on the income they earn while in their state. A sign of the times I suppose.


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

The STATE is taxing neither property nor services, they are taxing INCOME.
Once the dog smells blood he is hard to deter.

The COUNTIES tax property with an arbitrary date of declaration being January 01, regardless of what happened previously or thereafter.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Its not BS , Harry.

http://www.ftb.ca.gov/individuals/wsc/decision_chart.shtml

"If you pay California source income to nonresidents of California, you must withhold and send us 7 percent of all payments that exceed $1,500 in a calendar year. (R&TC Section 18662)"
This is nothing new,as Tom points out. It does sound like the Franchise Tax Board may be getting more aggressive in going after the money.


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## Nick Noyes (Apr 28, 2005)

I was told we have been paying this for years nothing new. 
Probably not a good idea to let your grower take out 7% just take care of it yourself.


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## Missoura (Feb 12, 2009)

As Nick says the tax is an earnings tax. If you work and earn money (over a cetain amount) in Kansas City Missouri you owe a City earnings tax ( 1 or 2 percents I think now) .

Sounds like the 7% is simply a state earnings tax. 

First I have heard of the tax. 

Your employer is supposed to send you a form to file and a form (in K.C.) at years end but a cetain amount is deducted from your paycheck ( almond pollination check ?) so the city makes sure out of state truckers and others pay the tax. I drove semi out of K.C. for decades and the company always deducted the Kansas City earnings tax. You could file a form listing certain deductions and maybe get money back but I never did as was only a percent back then . 7 % is a bit hefty when considering a half million almond pollination.


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

After a little research I found this under Calf. tax code. 

Regulation 1587, “Animal Life, Feed, Drugs, and Medicines,” explains tax does not apply to sales of any form of animal life of a kind the products of which ordinarily constitute food for human consumption (food animals), as for example, cattle, sheep, swine, baby chicks, hatching eggs, fish, and bees. Operative January 1, 1993, food animals include ostriches. Operative January 1, 1996, food animals include emus. Operative January 1, 2000, *the term “food animals” includes any form of animal life classified by the California Department of Food and Agriculture, by regulation, as livestock *or poultry intended for human consumption under sections 18848 and 25408 of the California Food and Agricultural Code. Tax shall not apply to sales of such newly defined food animals on or after the date the related California Food and Agricultural regulation is effective.” 

Here in Colorado bees are classified as "livestock." So it appears that there is a possible exception to paying the tax for the smart Almond grower.


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## ekervina (May 18, 2009)

alpha6 said:


> *the term “food animals” includes any form of animal life classified by the California Department of Food and Agriculture, by regulation, as livestock *or poultry intended for human consumption...


I think you stopped bolding a little too soon. 

Unless someone is going to eat the bees, of course.

(KIDDING! Just pointing out the way it is written is clumsy.)


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

Alpha be sure to point the code out when you file for a refund let us know how it goes.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

California sales tax and income tax are two separate issues....
Better talk to an accountant


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

alpha6 said:


> ...Regulation 1587, “Animal Life, Feed, Drugs, and Medicines,” explains tax does not apply to sales of any form of animal life of a kind the products of which ordinarily constitute food for human consumption (food animals), as for example, .... bees.


You aren't selling your bees. You are providing a service for income. The bees, though part of the service, remain yours.

Wayne


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

My point everyone was to point out as Ekervina noted that they have exemptions for ag products. Where bees fall is different from state to state. If you really are worried about the 7% I suggest doing some digging into the codes, calling the Calf. revenue office and getting firm answers.

Tom...I hear ya. If I gotta pay then trust me I will get my money back even if I have to crush up asphalt from a road and bring it back with me to use as road base. :thumbsup: yeah baby!!!


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