# Why a starter AND a finisher?



## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

I don't think you're missing anything, really. I only use a single colony to start and finish the cells I produce.

There are many different concepts for most everything in beekeeping, queen rearing included. I understand the belief with starter/finisher cell building is that queenless bees are more likely to accept grafts and start caring for them, and strong queenright colonies are better at feeding them well and growing them large. In my own experience it just makes for more work - I'm lazy and opted out of the more work option.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

Some of us prefer the queen right cell builder which eliminates one step in cell production.
You are not missing anything!


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

We use queen right cell builders as well. A little extra care should be taken if used more than once to insure that no "rogue" cells are raised which if not destroyed can result in a virgin cutting all your cells. As with any finisher be sure that you rotate brood upstairs so that your grafts are always sandwiched between frames of brood/open larvae.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

The criteria for a starter is slightly different than a finisher, not that one can't do for both. The idea is to stack the deck to get more cells started and fed well at the start. Often this is a confined starter (swarm box/starter hive) and you can't confine them very long, so they are then put in the finisher. You can, of course, use a starter/finisher and do it all in the same hive, but you wont be doing a swarm box.


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## Steven Ogborn (Jun 3, 2011)

I've seen a video on why a starter and a finisher hives. A video on You-tube shows Wilbanks starting over a hundred (171)
cells in his starter hive (like six bars loaded with cells) then he seperates them out amongst several finishers.
The name of the video is Honeybees and beekeeping 4.2: queen rearing


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## broodhead (May 30, 2009)

Keth, you are not missing anything at all. There are several ways of developing queen cells, and the cell builder as you have described is a very effective way of raising queen cells. I have used several methods and have gone back to the cell builder concept for raising queens in a limited number. I find the cell builder approach very workable and easily adopted to my needs. Each beek should be trying to raise their own queens, in most cases you can raise better queens than you can buy. I typically raise 14 cells at a time, I do this in a five frame cell builder and my success rate is very acceptable. I also use a five frame cloake system that is very good as well, and each produces excellent cells for my operation. 
I have altered my feeding methods during cell production and it has proven to be effective in cell quality.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

One good point that has been made, is that there are many ways to raise a queen. There are some basics that have to be met but other than that, many different methods can all get a good result.

Using a starter and finisher, or not, is partly to do with seasons, and number of queens needed. So during swarming season, a strong queenright hive will likely do a good job of raising queen cells that are put in straight from grafting, that have not been started in a queenless hive. But at other times of the season this may not be the case, they would not naturally be wanting a large number of cells at that time, so will clean most of them down. Using a queenless starter is mainly to ensure consistancy through all seasons. Even out of season, the queenless starter will start all or most of the cells, because they feel thay "have" to. 24 hours later the cells are put in the finisher, which will finish them because they are already part way along the process.

About the actual mechanics, or, looking at it through a bees eye view, a queenless cell starter is normally a whole heap od bees, with combs of feed, but no queen, and no brood. Thay have to be confined, because their situation is hopeless and if they were free to fly they would drift off to other hives. Into this starter we put a bunch of grafted cells, possibly over 100. The bees initial reaction is to enthusiastically start feeding the larvae. But it doesn't take long, until the bees decide they only need one queen, not a hundred. So we have to remove the cells 24 hours later, if we don't, the bees likely will start rejecting a lot of them.
Now, the cells are put into a queenright finisher. The situation here is different. These bees have a queen, and are not looking at the cells as needing only one to give them a queen. If the finisher hive has been prepped properly, to the bees it will seem more of a swarming situation, where it is quite normal for them to build many cells, so, since the cells are placed in their midst, they finish them.

So, the method used depends on time and resources available, the season, the number of queens needed, and then just the fact that many methods can achieve the same goal. It is not for nothing though, that most commercial breeders take the time to use a starter as well as a finisher. Their needs are different to those of a person who at optimum seasonal time, just need to breed for their own use a few dozen queens.

So in the end it just comes down to "what works for you".


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## DRAKOS (Oct 17, 2011)

Always to the point, thanks


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