# Help with a hive cutout please



## seawrath (May 30, 2015)

Hello everyone.. Hope all are having a good bee year. Not so bad here in Kentucky. Hopefully i can get some suggestions soon. Here it goes....
I have two hives approx. 1000 feet from a family nieghbor who has a established hive of honeybees in their backyard in an old 10 ft high stump. Not a swarm. Bringing in tons of pollen. fortunately they called me before spraying them. Although this will be my first cutout. I was planning on cutting down the stump to the hive. Take wedges out with a chainsaw till i can get at the comb. Transfer comb, look for queen, hopefully find her. set the brood box with queen and comb next to the stump over night. 
Questions.... Am i missing anything?
Do i need to devise a bee vacuum?
The next day can i move the box next to my other hives 1000 ft away?
What if i cant find the queen, will they still relocate to the brood box with comb?
Oh! And is it too late in the season for them to make it through winter? If so...
The Only other option i can think of is to build a tube from the enterance to 20 feet up in the trees so my family member wont be bothered by the bees and box them up in the spring. 

Please help me save the bees! Any ideas are apprieciated..


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## beestudent (Jun 10, 2015)

It would be good to have a beevac, im going to do a cutout soon, and im gonna build a beevac. if you cut it out, AND vac, you most likely will get the queen. for foragers, leave overnight, when it gets below 50 degrees or so, all the bees will most likely be inside and not coming out, so then move it to your other hives. OR, if you have a space a few miles away, HAS to be over 2, then move it there for like 3 days, then wait till night, and move it back.


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## seawrath (May 30, 2015)

Thanks. The first bee vac i made out of cardboard.. It crushed... But captured an earlier swarm this year. So i may build a better one. But its a lot of time i dont have. Good idea with moving them twice..I can do that, i was previously worried about moving too much, too soon.


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## GaryG74 (Apr 9, 2014)

A bee vac would be good, but should have adjustable suction so the bees don't get slammed into the box/bucket or where ever they go in your setup. Take large rubber bands to attach as much comb, especially brood comb, into the frames as possible. Be sure to put it in with the top going up. Take more boxes and frames than you think you'll need because you never know how much room it occupies in the trunk. Take shop towels and water to drink and wash your hands in if none is available, you're going to get covered in honey and it helps to be able to wash it off. There's no guarantee you'll get the queen whether you use a vac or not. Queens have a way of hiding in the smallest crannies. Take a couple queen cages since there may be extra queens (undergoing a supercedure for example). If you get most of the brood in the boxes, the bees should follow. It would be great to have the queen, that would get all of them for sure. If you see a ball of bees on the ground or somewhere on the stump, check it out carefully. The queen is probably there. Gently scoop up the ball and set it at the entrance and see if the queen walks in. Since I don't think you're going to see 50 degrees for another month or so, you can either wait till after dark or the next morning to move them to your apiary (very early, like before sunrise). Have your hive stand ready before you bring the hive home and give them lots of ventilation. Use a screened cover if you have one. When you put them in their final location, put a board in front of the hive (some use a dense, leafy branch) so the bees have to fly around it and have to re-orient on the new location. After all the confusion, they should re-orient easily. You don't have to move over two miles. Check the old site over the next day or two if you didn't get the queen or if there are lots of bees still there. Some people leave a hive or nuc with a piece of brood comb rubberbanded into a frame to catch stragglers. The vibration of the chain saw will disorient them some but take your smoker and keep it ready, just in case.
It will be an interesting experience, take lots of pictures and post them so we can see how it went. Good luck.


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## seawrath (May 30, 2015)

Thanks gary, so you say i dont have to move twice.. And that 1000 ft away from the trunk is ok? Just worried after moving they will all swarm back to the trunk.


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## seawrath (May 30, 2015)

Great tips again thank you! Keep em coming people, i have till friday to plan my invasion.


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## beestudent (Jun 10, 2015)

well, I would guess they would go after the brood comb when you take it out... but have read about a ball of stubborn foragers have "swarmed" of sorts and hanged there near the original hive spot, and sadly, the guy thought they were a swarm and they died off in the hive body he gave to them... oh well, the point is, after this much moving, I agree they should go with the brood.


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## DrJeseuss (May 28, 2015)

As noted, no need for all the moving or 2 miles and all that... Move them, place an obstacle in the way so they reorient and you're all set. Some bees are less interested in learning a new home and go to the old location, forming a cluster. Left alone they will linger a day or so, then look for a home nearby, begging their way into the nearest hive they can find. This cluster will shrink down over a few days until all have found another home. This errant cluster will likely be a small percentage of the colony. When I've run into this, I collect them, take them to the hive, and drop them into the top, or at the front door.

Above all, use smoke, but only as need and take your time. This is not an event to rush through. If you do decide to vac keep in mind they kill bees... Not a lot usually, but the queen is just one bee. Don't count on the vac getting her alive. Also be very careful not to vac honey, it'll coat the bees and kill them in a sticky ball.


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## JMoore (May 30, 2013)

Most cutouts I've done like this are a complete mess. The fall of the trunk alone will cause a lot of damage. Once opened, the cavity is rarely a nice, uniform shape and comb is molded to the awkward twists and turns that a tree cavity provides. I've never been able to salvage much comb from a tree. I've also never been able to capture a queen from a tree cutout. So I'm a bit pessimistic when it comes to cutouts of this nature. 

A few thoughts:
-Is a trap-out a viable option? A trap out (hogan style) would be a much better (easier/gentler) way to get the colony out with queen, maybe even in under a week. If not...
-A beevac is a must. I made mine out of a deep hive body cut in half down the side. There's lots of plans for this around. Just find what works with what you already have. 
-I find that when cutting a bee log, the sound/vibration of the chainsaw will cause a LOT of bees to head towards the exits. It's good to have a second helper vacuuming the bees while you cut. 
-Even if you don't get the queen, the extra population of bees can be used to bolster your current hives. 
-It'll be a great experience!

Post pics and let us know how it goes!


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

Sounds like good advice so far. I like the idea of being able to leave the trunk standing and cut off the wood from around the bees. I'm sure it will be less messy and disruptive that way.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

I don't know the details of the hive but I would try to cut above and below the hive in the stump and just take it home. If it survives winter then it would be worth hiving it in a Lang. For one thing it will have less bees, less honey and occupy less space in the cavity.


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## seawrath (May 30, 2015)

I was thinking about a trap out but decided against it since they would lose all their stores.. What style bee vac would anyone suggest? Guessing id relocate the box then pour the bees in like a package right? Great idea about relocating the whole stump till spring! Id have to figure out a way to lift it upright into and out of a wheelbarrow or trailer. It will be just my fiance and I.


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## Gatorgitter (Jul 28, 2015)

The plans for the bee vac on this site is very good. I adjust my suction to where it just barely sucks up the bees and have very little loss. I made mine out of pine boards instead of all plywood except the tops and bottoms. Make at least 3 catch boxes so you don't over crowd them , take your time and you can get the hive relocated.


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## tsmullins (Feb 17, 2011)

seawrath said:


> Hello everyone.. Hope all are having a good bee year. Not so bad here in Kentucky. Hopefully i can get some suggestions soon. Here it goes....
> I have two hives approx. 1000 feet from a family nieghbor who has a established hive of honeybees in their backyard in an old 10 ft high stump. Not a swarm. Bringing in tons of pollen. fortunately they called me before spraying them. Although this will be my first cutout. I was planning on cutting down the stump to the hive. Take wedges out with a chainsaw till i can get at the comb. Transfer comb, look for queen, hopefully find her. set the brood box with queen and comb next to the stump over night.
> Questions.... Am i missing anything?
> Do i need to devise a bee vacuum?
> ...


As far as gaining access to the cavity, it is hard to say. I have never done one on a stump. We like to expose as much of the colony as possible before starting to cut comb. 

Here are some tips. We only transfer brood comb that has enough bees to cover, otherwise you are inviting SHB. You don't need a bee vac IF you can find the queen OR there is enough brood to anchor the bees. This time of year, they may not have enough brood to anchor them. A bee vac is nice, I always have one on hand if I am doing a cutout from the inside. Just in case things go wrong. 

IMO, it is too late to get them reestablished. If you can wait until spring, then I absolutely would.

Shane


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## DrJeseuss (May 28, 2015)

If you cut the colony and drop it any distance the comb is likely to go everywhere... this is the same idea tyhey use in harvesting from skeps, dislodges the comb. This action will surely squish bees and maybe (probably) the queen. Honey will then be everywhere, devastating the population. I'd cut away from the side only. As to he bee vac, the one I built has a slanted solid bottom, and a hole in one side where the hose connects, then a top with solid top and screen botton, with a hole connected to the shop vac. These top/bottom pieces are placed on hive bodies. I use 3 usually, with frames on the top 2, and nothing in the bottom one. This gives them a space to come into, orient a bit, and fly up to the frames to escape the wind. Once done, and home, swap the vac bottom for a proper bottom, and the vac top for a proper top. Also, add in hive bodies with your cut comb in place of the empty box on the bottom, and you're in business.

As another idea, a friend of mine did things a bit different. He drilled into the tree working up until he hit the cavity, then sprayed in bee-done or similar, and trapped the bees coming out. Once the cavity was cleared out, he was able to get to the comb easily and get what he wanted/could, without fear of losing bees, queen, etc. Also, mistakes become less costly as well.


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## Russ (Sep 9, 2001)

Watch the Video's on jpthebeeman youtube You will learn a lot about cut out's.


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## Russ (Sep 9, 2001)

Do a google search for bee vac There is lots of Info out there on bee vac's I would suggest making one that uses a hive body so you don't have to move the "Bee's twice. My $.02 worth


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## seawrath (May 30, 2015)

Ok folks the update..... 6 stings later.

I moved the stump intact. I cut the top 10 ft off.. Stapled screen to the openings. Then cut as close to the ground as possible. Used ramps to slide it on a trailer and moved it near my other hives.. Unfortunatly they had a cavity extending into the ground about 10 inches, With a little bit of comb i cut through. Hope i didnt kill the queen. I took the comb mostly empty and a little brood and put it in a nuc and placed the nuc on the cut portion where the stump was.. The straglers filed right in for the night. Next morning before sunrise i took the nuc and placed it by the stump at the new location and placed a bunch of leafy branches over everything. Then i removed the screens. The one bad thing i noticed was the comb had a lot of shb's. But otherwise, its a ton of bees and they are busy with the flow. One thing i didnt expect but i should have is that when you mess with them with a chainsaw those little buggers get ANGERY! Duh... Should have had my veil on before i started.. I was clearing branches by hand to start out and stung on the eyelid.. Ill be swollen for days. So worth it though.


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## seawrath (May 30, 2015)

Thanks for the help everyone.. Ill cut into the stump in the spring if they survive winter and the shb.


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## seawrath (May 30, 2015)

I might be able to post pics in a day or two.


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## seawrath (May 30, 2015)

Figuring out photos


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## seawrath (May 30, 2015)

This is the final wintering position after cutting out the section of stump with the hive. [URL="http://[/URL]


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## seawrath (May 30, 2015)

After rigging up the tree and stapling screens to the entrance, i started the first cut above the hive.[URL="http://[/URL]


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## seawrath (May 30, 2015)

Before the cut , screen in place.[URL="[/URL]n


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## seawrath (May 30, 2015)

Bees in their new location after 2 weeks
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## seawrath (May 30, 2015)

Not sure if the queen was injured in the move but there are many bees coming and going. Hopefully they make it through the winter and i can dissect this log in the spring.


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## DrJeseuss (May 28, 2015)

Coming and going is good... even if some combs broke, they'll do a fine job of fixing things inside for themselves. If the queen was killed they MIGHT be able to replace her in time, though it'll be cutting it close. Time will tell. Excellent work moving that stump! I'm sure it wasn't light.


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## SangHunter17 (Aug 10, 2016)

Any update on how things turned out in the spring? I'm going to be doing something very similar tomorrow but not sure if I should try to hive them or try n bring the whole tree home n winter them in the tree? So just wondering how it turned out for you? Looking forward to your reply! Thank you buddy!


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