# Requeening Russian Hives



## Rayban (Jun 11, 2010)

Does anyone have any advice or suggestions on requeening russian hives. I have tried mated, caged queens with no luck none of them can make the cut...


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## AR Beekeeper (Sep 25, 2008)

Make a weak nuc and introduce the queen to the nuc. After the queen has been laying for 3 weeks remove the queen from the full sized colony and use the entire nuc to requeen the colony. Queens are accepted best: by weak colonies, by nurse/house age bees, during a nectar flow or when the colony is being fed, when the workers in the cage are removed before putting the cage in the colony. 

When making the nuc be sure you have no queen/virgin in the bees used to make it. It is safest to shake all bees from the brood frames used and place them in a box above an excluder on top of the donor colony. The nurse bees will come up to care for the brood and no queen or virgin will come up. When shaking off the bees from the brood frames check for queen cells and kill any cell that even looks like a queen cell. Put the caged queen in the nuc when it is made, don't wait 24 hours as is usually recommended. If you wait the Russians will start queen cells and continue making them until they have no larvae of the right age. 

Don't open the candy end of the cage when you put the cage in the nuc, wait 24 hours and check for aggression by the bees in the nuc toward the new queen. If aggression is shown shake the bees from the combs and check again for queen cells being started, close up and check again in 24 hours. When no aggression is shown then open the candy end and let the bees release the queen.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

How exactly are you introducing the mated queen? Give us the exact process (with times, equipment, etc) that you're using. I have never had russians, but have had to requeen some nasty agressive hives that would tear up a queen using a standard queen cage with candy. There are lots and lots of ways to requeen. Let us know what you've done and we can make suggestions,


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## Omie (Nov 10, 2009)

If you are desperate you could always just pinch the queen and let them raise a new queen from a frame of eggs from another hive...? Just pinch any QCs on other frames twice over the 10 days after pinching the queen, and make sure you give them a frame of eggs from a queen you like until they make make new QCs on the right frame.... ?


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## Ted Kretschmann (Feb 2, 2011)

Get a white gallon milk jug. Fill with gasoline and pour on said Russian colony to requeen. Strike match, fling match, poof end of Russian honey bee requeening problem. When I had Russian bees in several isolated test yards, I felt frustrated to the above many times. Now that I do not have Russian bees, my life is calm, serene, lots of Zen. TED


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## fish_stix (May 17, 2009)

Yep! As I've said several times on this forum, the best day of my beekeeping career was the day I squashed the last of those Russians from He_ _!


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## valleyman (Nov 24, 2009)

:lookout:AR Beekeper gave you the exact formula for a good chance of it working. Or,you can kill the old queen check for queen cell, tear down all of them. Check again in 3 days for queen cells and tear down all of them. Then put the caged queen in is what I've been told to do. Me personally I would wait another 3 days and check for a virgin queen (which I know is hard to find) check again for queen cells as the stupid Russians may be trying to raise a queen from a too old larvae or a drone cell. I would after 6 days put the caged queen in and watch the aggression toward her. If they are feeding her remove the cork, if they are being aggressive toward her wait 24 hours to remove the cork and check again. If the aggressiveness has quit remove the cork. It will be best for the caged queen to next to some brood which is probably going to be capped by now. If the aggressiveness has not quit by then do what Ted said.:lookout:

As fish stix said my best day of beekeeping will be when I have got them all requeened!!! Good luck!


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## Rick 1456 (Jun 22, 2010)

My experience is they are determined to make their own queen. Even when I got them to accept a queen, they superceded her in short order. If you want to keep them, let them make their own queen. When I let them do that, I was pleased with their performance. Just MO


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## valleyman (Nov 24, 2009)

Rick 
I have now 7 hives with the Hardeman hybrid Russians. 2 hives have, I don't know what. I'm sure that they have swarmed so therefore have a hybrid queen. These 2 hives were queens from another breeder, and both queens were orange and larger than the other 7 that I had so much problem with. The 2 are still not easy keeping bees as neither are the Hardeman hybrids.


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## fish_stix (May 17, 2009)

When I had Russians I requeened using a 4"x5"x3/4" screen cage (#8 screen). Find some emerging brood and press the cage into the comb so that you include about a dozen emerging cells under the cage. Put the new queen in and make sure it's pressed down into the comb enough that she can't get out. The young bees emerging immediately accept the new queen and care for her during the introduction period. Leave her in the cage for 5 days and then check to see that the outside bees are feeding her, then remove the cage. Works virtually every time. BTW, make sure you gleefully squash the old Russian hag beforehand! Works best if you have a big grin on your face as you mash her!.


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## Ted Kretschmann (Feb 2, 2011)

Since the general consensus is that Russian bee are not worth a kopek, then why are we as an industry keep tolerating such trash bees?? I suggest everybody just quit buying the darned things and let that phase in american beekeeping go into history. TED


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## valleyman (Nov 24, 2009)

Ted,
Some people take awhile to catch onto what is annoying them. I predict all will eventually. It's such a shame that some good people are going to suffer financially because of another one of the USDA'S folly. Namely the RBA. Some of them may not survive. Some are large beekeepers. They have to have a minimum of 200 hives.

fish stix,
Your method has been rolling around in my old head. I've already been hunting #8 hardware cloth. If you say it worked for you I may try it. I was afraid it wouldn't work for the Russians. I know it works for hard to requeen hives.


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## Rayban (Jun 11, 2010)

Yea, I was one that bought into the russian hype. Should I try to requeen or just start drowning the area with the MN Hyg and let the russian strand water down. What are my odds of the russians accepting a queen cell?


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## valleyman (Nov 24, 2009)

From what I've read about queen cells in the Russians your chances would be 0-none. Or at very least slim. Good luck we're gonna need it.


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## fish_stix (May 17, 2009)

I had fairly good luck with introducing cells but only if we killed the old queen first. The Russians tenaciously hang on to their own kind! I gave my brother a hive with a Russian queen and I thought it might end our brotherly relationship! LOL. He added cell after cell and they killed all the virgins, kept trying to requeen themselves. I think he may have settled on TK's gasoline introduction because they were some mean little boogers. Every time he opened the hive I got a nasty hate phone call! We still laugh and giggle about that hive! As far as watering them down, I don't know how successful you'll be. The meanstreak runs deep! Just kidding, but it's probably the very last strand of DNA to get displaced!!! This is no joke though; when my son and I find a dark queen now we mark the hive and keep a close eye on them, just in case it's passed down Russian genetics. The first sign of meanness, she gets squashed. I started working in the bee business in 1958-59 and these were positively the meanest critters I've ever seen. Not just an occasional hive; every single one of them. My son and I ended up with 80-85 hives our first year back in the business and virtually every one would come out of the hive like AHB. I opened the first hive in the yard one morning and got 86 stings on my belly; that was the end of the Russians for us. We immediately bought a ton of Italian cells and started requeening and I called Glenn Apiaries and ordered 2 Italian breeders.


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## Rick 1456 (Jun 22, 2010)

I had a R queen that ended up a drone layer. Put two suercedure cells in thinking/hoping the bees will take one of the cells and eventually phase the drone queen out. Nope. They kept the drone layer. Feed her to the ants, and combined to two deeps on two different hives. 
It is a shame, it seems, that some really good breeders may suffer over this. Is it the Bees, or the breeders? Probably been asked and answered.


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## Kazzandra (Jul 7, 2010)

We're talking about pure Russians being trash? I'd agree only if they are "not as advertised" with varroa resistance, brood management, etc.

I would rather have somewhat mean bees and a bee suit than treat with chemicals. Apparently everyone here would rather have nice bees and a higher possibility of winter die-off.


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## fish_stix (May 17, 2009)

Kazzandra; you haven't read all the posts. No! We're not talking about pure Russians. If requeening with pure Russians or first generation daughters they'll work OK, except for the swarming tendencies and other undesirable traits. If you allow them to swarm and raise new queens, which you'll have no control over with the Russians, the second generation and onward are mean as junkyard dogs. It comes from their parentage; the Russian beeks carried German Black bees, notoriously mean, and several other races to the Primorsky region where our so called Russian bees originate. These races formed the basis for the Primorsky or Russian bee. The Varroa resistance with purebred Russians is good and also with the first generation daughters. After that, it's no better than any other race with hygenic traits. If you have Russians and let them requeen themselves you will have the same nasty results that we're discussing. Most folks, like me, cannot afford to buy new Russian queens several times a year and with their swarming behavior that's a major problem.


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## valleyman (Nov 24, 2009)

fish stix, 
I concur completely!!!


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