# Hopelessly queenless



## Travis-b (Mar 11, 2015)

My buddies hive is hopelessly queenless. Would it work if I gave him a frame of open brood from my hive to put in his brood chamber so they can make a new queen?


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## Jayoung21 (Jun 22, 2010)

If the brood is very young, as in, there are eggs, it should.


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## B52EW (Jun 3, 2013)

Yes. If they go without brood for too long then he'll have to deal with laying workers too.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

> Would it work if I gave him a frame of open brood from my hive to put in his brood chamber so they can make a new queen?

If they don't have laying workers or it's early in the laying worker degeneration, one frame should work. If they are seriously laying worker, it will take a frame of open brood every week for three weeks.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beespanacea.htm
http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslayingworkers.htm


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

If it has not been a month already then there is still time to make some cells. Let's see if
you can see the young nurse bees in there. Better yet get some queen cells or a mated queen for them.


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## IslandLife (Apr 14, 2015)

I understand (am learning) that the reason the workers start laying is because of the absence of queen pheromones and open brood scents, and by introducing the open brood (weekly) we can suppress the egg laying? In addition to introducing the open brood would it help to also put some (commercially bought) queen pheromone and/or essential lemon grass oil in the hive? Could that speed up the queen rearing, or would it interfere with them actually building queen cells, etc.?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I understand (am learning) that the reason the workers start laying is because of the absence of queen pheromones and open brood scents, and by introducing the open brood (weekly) we can suppress the egg laying?

It's not queen pheromones, it's brood pheromones. That's why the frame of brood every week for three weeks works.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslayingworkers.htm#pheromones

"the queen's pheromones are neither necessary nor sufficient for inhibiting worker's ovaries. Instead, they strongly inhibit the workers from rearing additional queens. It is now clear that the pheromones that provide the proximate stimulus for workers to refrain from laying eggs come mainly from the brood, not from the queen (reviewed in Seeling 1985; see also Willis, Winston, and Slessor 1990)."--Tom Seeley, Wisdom of the Hive pg 11

> In addition to introducing the open brood would it help to also put some (commercially bought) queen pheromone and/or essential lemon grass oil in the hive?

No. Queen pheromones are irrelevant to ovary development in the workers. But a lack of queen pheromones is what incites them to try to raise a queen. It's only because each laying worker produces a little bit of queen pheromone and there are now many of them, that they don't keep trying to raise a queen.

> Could that speed up the queen rearing, or would it interfere with them actually building queen cells, etc.?

Yes, it would keep them from rearing a queen


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## IslandLife (Apr 14, 2015)

Thanks Michael! Got your book as one of my guides! Trying to get our (cut feral) hive up and going. Didn't get the queen with the cut and it looks like the laying workers have killed whatever emerged from the 2 queen cells we had going. Drone cells/comb is being build and we detected an actual drone in the hive a couple of days ago (4 weeks after the cut). We just introduced a frame with open and capped brood from another hive and will see if we can keep this up for a couple of weeks ...


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## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

IslandLife said:


> I understand (am learning) that the reason the workers start laying is because of the absence of queen pheromones and open brood scents, and by introducing the open brood (weekly) we can suppress the egg laying? In addition to introducing the open brood would it help to also put some (commercially bought) queen pheromone and/or essential lemon grass oil in the hive? Could that speed up the queen rearing, or would it interfere with them actually building queen cells, etc.?


I bet Guam is a great place to raise bees. Do you have varroa mites. I was there in the 60's.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

If Guam is a good place to keep bees then do they have the AHB too?


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## IslandLife (Apr 14, 2015)

Just starting my bee raising adventure. I'm working with the local university, which has a USDA grant to evaluate Varoa (and other diseases) on Guam and nearby other islands. Varoa have been found, but in few hives, and we have evidence of wax moths. No "overwintering" and year-round nectar flows. But, we do have the occasional typhoon coming through the area (one tomorrow). Which creates its own challenges ... Just closed the shutters around the area my hive is, so they'll have to amuse themselves in a confined area tomorrow ...


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## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

IslandLife said:


> Just starting my bee raising adventure. I'm working with the local university, which has a USDA grant to evaluate Varoa (and other diseases) on Guam and nearby other islands. Varoa have been found, but in few hives, and we have evidence of wax moths. No "overwintering" and year-round nectar flows. But, we do have the occasional typhoon coming through the area (one tomorrow). Which creates its own challenges ... Just closed the shutters around the area my hive is, so they'll have to amuse themselves in a confined area tomorrow ...


I had the supreme joy of enduring a typhoon on Guam. Had duty on NCS so didn't get to enjoy a typhoon party. You are going to need more than a brick on your hive top.


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## IslandLife (Apr 14, 2015)

That's for sure 

Got a new Nuc in the mail today and had hoped to cut another feral/wild hive. We'll see how the "wild" ones survive the winds in a tree ...


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