# Horizontal hive using medium frames?



## The Redneck Hippie (Mar 29, 2014)

Has anyone tried making and using a horizontal hive medium-super sized, to use medium frames? How did it work out? Overwintering issues? Any overheating issues in summer? 

I've been reading about deep-sized long hives and it seems three times the width of one deep is about right for length on those - what about a medium? Four times the width? Five times?

Any other notable issues, good or bad?

Details about me that might be relevant to advice given:
New beekeeper - full-strength BeeWeaver colony due June 20th - researching what equipment to buy/build for the future. I hope to keep doing this _well_ into my retirement, so lighter is better. Therefore, I want to use all 8-frame mediums in my beeyard and figure I'd start now with them. 

The idea of a horizontal hive appeals to me for ease of working and little-or-no heavy lifting, but I'd like it to use the same size frames as the rest of my hives for interchangeability. No special plan on what I want more - honey, wax, or bees - I'll just wait and see which one I'm better at raising over the next few years. I do want to make some extra money selling honey and candles at the farm stand with my peaches and tomatoes.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Has anyone tried making and using a horizontal hive medium-super sized, to use medium frames?

Yes.
http://www.bushfarms.com/beeshorizontalhives.htm

> How did it work out?

Well.

> Overwintering issues?

Same as any other hive.

> Any overheating issues in summer? 

No.


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## The Redneck Hippie (Mar 29, 2014)

Short, sweet, and to the point. Love it. I've read that page of yours at least twice, Michael, and don't know how I missed that some of those were mediums.

And for the second time today - thank you ever so much, man. You've given me confidence in the plans I'm making. Like I've said in other posts, my dad used to keep bees and I was always following him around, but there's a big difference between being The Helper and The One Who Makes The Decisions. Since he's been gone for years, I can't just call him up and ask, "Hey, Dad, will this work?" It's great to have this forum for that. Really. Really great.


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## LampBurner (May 4, 2011)

Hey ******* Hippie
I made two of them at the same time, one for a friend who is handy capped and one for myself. I made them to the size of medium standard boxes depth-wise and to the length to hold 40 medium frames because I typically stack my vertical hives 5 medium boxes high.
How is it working? Ok I'd say. I have learned from my TBH in my part of the country in summertime it evidently gets a bit hot for the bees at night. I expected the same for the horizontal langs as they too are "horizontal" and the heat cant go up and out. I drilled wine cork size holes in the bottom of the hives and the top of both ends for ventilation. When I want to close them off in the cold season I simply put wine corks in the holes. 
When the holes are open in summer, at night the bees hang out of them like icicles and sometimes fall to the ground. Therefore it must still be a bit hot for them. You being in Texas I highly recommend doing some such thing for ventilation. I could go on and tell a little more about the horizontal lang but it would be excessive.


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## The Redneck Hippie (Mar 29, 2014)

Thanks for that, LampBurner. I was thinking of a screened bottom board the length of the hive made in such a way that I cold close it off if need be (maybe even closing off sections, maybe make the cover in thirds or fourths). Then a couple-or-three top entrances, also that I could close off as needed. Do you think that would work? 

I also was thinking of putting it in a spot that would get morning sun and evening shade. What do you think?


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## LampBurner (May 4, 2011)

******* Hippie I had just explained and written and was disconnected while I was typing and lost it all. When typing something on here you better type fast. Taking the time to proofread and spell check is out of the question.
I might try again later when I have more time.


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## oswego (May 2, 2014)

I am also following this thread for more information on hives built this way.


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## The Redneck Hippie (Mar 29, 2014)

LampBurner said:


> ******* Hippie I had just explained and written and was disconnected while I was typing and lost it all. When typing something on here you better type fast. Taking the time to proofread and spell check is out of the question.
> I might try again later when I have more time.


Arrrgh. I hate that. I've developed a habit of doing "Select All", then "Copy" before I hit "Post" just in case. It's saved my post more than a few times. Thanks for doing all that, and take your time doing it again.


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## LampBurner (May 4, 2011)

Ok folks I'm back. 
As for top cover from the elements, I saw on video few years ago of someone that makes and sells top bar hives that I don't see why it wouldn't work for horizontal langs too. 
Now this is to cover your outer lids IF you use partial lids, to keep rain from coming in between your lids. It's a tarp sized to cover the entire top of the hive tightly, that snaps on around the sides. It appeared to overlap down the sides and front and rear of the hive by around 2 ". It snaps maybe every foot all the way around. You can just un snap and peel back the tarp however far you need while working the hive. You'd have to figure out how to attach the snaps to the hive and the tarp and of course your upper ventilation holes will need to be under where the tarp attaches. I probably didn't need mention that last sentence as those things might go without saying.
My horizontal hive is under a P.T. plywood roof that serves as partial cover from rain and provides about 90% continuous shade.
As for ventilation in bottom or where ever, I have learned that if you use screen (same size at what comes in stacked lang bottom boards), and don't make the openings big enough, the bees will totally propalize the screen making the ventilation openings redundant.
I have a little more to add but better do so later. 
Good luck with it.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Thanks for that, LampBurner. I was thinking of a screened bottom board the length of the hive made in such a way that I cold close it off if need be (maybe even closing off sections, maybe make the cover in thirds or fourths). Then a couple-or-three top entrances, also that I could close off as needed. Do you think that would work? 

I think the most common mistake with ventilation is assuming that more is cooler. Once the tipping point is passed where the bees need to COOL the hive lower than the outside temperatures (outside is over 93 F) you can easily make it impossible for them to cool it with too much ventilation. You can also make it impossible for them to heat it when it's cold out. I made some long hives with screened bottom boards. I will not do it again. It accomplishes nothing and is more complicated.


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## The Redneck Hippie (Mar 29, 2014)

Thanks, LampBurner. Great tips. I've been thinking about a top lately. How did you know?  I remember seeing a hinged lid that I liked on a top bar hive somewhere. I may try to figure that one out - even less lifting. I could use multiple inner covers so not all of the hive would be uncovered at once when I opened the lid. Of course I'll likely not get that one done in time, so I've written down your tip about the canvas cover in my bee book (yes, I'm taking notes). 

It's interesting that they propolize the screens. Noted. I was thinking 12"x12" openings, spaced a foot apart, with either hinged doors or sliding doors to cover, and wondering if they were too big. Now I know.


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## LampBurner (May 4, 2011)

Yes ventilation is a bit of an issue that I don't seem to have resolved yet. 
Mr. Bush is right that one can make too much ventilation and do just that, make them so they cant circulate air to cool the hive, then if not closed off before there is a cold night or day make them too cold.
The un screened wine cork size holes is what seems to me to be the best thing so far and even that seems it could be a bit in adequate. 
I am going to try to post a couple pictures in this posting, one of the bees hanging like ice cycles from the holes, and one of them bearding off the front of the hive. Both these were taken last year in the midst of summer at night with the infrared feature on my cell phone camera.
Not working. When I go to "Manage Attachments", I click "Upload" or "Browse" nothing happens when I click either one. I also tried dragging them from my desktop to the Manage Attachments box. When I do the picture opens up but can't do anything else with it. I wonder what I'm doing wrong if it even is me.


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## Sasha (Feb 22, 2005)

Methinks not really good idea. Time tested horizontal hives throughout eastern Europe use large frames, deeper than your "deep" frame.

Like the one here:
http://youtu.be/vqPec2NpLe4


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## rhaldridge (Dec 17, 2012)

I don't really understand why you would want a long hive with medium frames, unless all your other hives had nothing but medium frames, and you were planning to use frames from those hives to start your long hives.

You get much more comb space in a limited length using deeps. If you buy nucs, it's easier to find deep nucs. Since you harvest by the frame in a long hive, the extra weight isn't an issue. I also think that in harsh climates, the deep frames might be more successful than mediums, due to the larger area for a honey dome above the brood nest, though maybe I'm wrong. In the central Russian climate, very harsh, some beekeepers are using frames twice as deep as Lang deeps, for that reason.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I don't really understand why you would want a long hive with medium frames, unless all your other hives had nothing but medium frames

Two reasons. One, as you say, it's what is in all my other hives. Two, when I use just top bars in them (and I often do) I have less comb collapse issues with medium depth than deep.


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## rhaldridge (Dec 17, 2012)

Michael Bush said:


> >when I use just top bars in them (and I often do) I have less comb collapse issues with medium depth than deep.


Very interesting! Why do you use top bars in your long hives?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

> Why do you use top bars in your long hives?


Why not?


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## jtgoral (Mar 24, 2018)

Michael Bush said:


> Why not?


Where are winter food stores in this configuration?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Clusters tend to start near the entrance and eat their way to the other end. Since I put my entrance on one end, the stores are all behind them.


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## jtgoral (Mar 24, 2018)

Michael Bush said:


> Clusters tend to start near the entrance and eat their way to the other end. Since I put my entrance on one end, the stores are all behind them.


How do you think the bees move to the next food frame in your long hive during Nebraska cold winter? Over the frame top, sides, bottom?


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

jtgoral said:


> How do you think the bees move to the next food frame in your long hive during Nebraska cold winter? Over the frame top, sides, bottom?


Despite what Michael says about those "cold winters in Nebraska" - they are really NOT.
I lived in that region for long time - just south of the KS/NE border. 

For example - many days in the February, 2022 were plenty warm so the bees could freely fly and move about as they wished (including crossing the combs at will).

I would not consider *that *a cold winter (especially in terms of wintering bees in horizontal hives). 
Yes - there are cold snaps, but this is where it stands and no more than that.

To compare - even in Northern IL/Southern WI - horizontal moves are very problematic - just too cold for too long - any side/back combs not taken by the bees are solid frozen and avoided.


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## jtgoral (Mar 24, 2018)

GregB said:


> Despite what Michael says about those "cold winters in Nebraska" - they are really NOT.
> I lived in that region for long time - just south of the KS/NE border.
> 
> For example - many days in the February, 2022 were plenty warm so the bees could freely fly and move about as they wished (including crossing the combs at will).
> ...


Say* Feb4 - Feb21 2021* like in








Weather in February 2021 in Township of Nehawka, Nebraska, USA


Weather reports from February 2021 in Township of Nehawka, Nebraska, USA with highs and lows




www.timeanddate.com


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

jtgoral said:


> Say* Feb4 - Feb21 2021* like in
> 
> 
> 
> ...


OK, indeed - February 2021 does look cold enough for long enough.
This would be a problem for a horizontal/shallow hive.


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