# New bees for small cell foundation



## Rich Angerer (Aug 28, 2001)

Fellow 49ers,

I've been beekeeping for 5 years and had 6 hives going into the winter. Last year I moved all hives to small cell foundation and went into the winter with each hive being comprised of 2 (small cell foundation) deep hive bodies and 1 medium super (for extra honey). It appears that I lost 3 or 4 of the 6 hives over the winter.

Questions are:

1) What is the best way for me to get the dead hives back up and going? Specifically, can I buy a package of local (5.6 Italian) bees and put them in the small cell foundation? Will they us it or destroy it and remake it to large cell? I'd like to not mail-order small cell bees because of the high rates of dead-bees in packages of small cell bees I've received in the past (we're a long way from any small cell package bee operators).

2) If I need to go with small cell bees (not the locals), would you recommend splitting the remaining hives or mail ordering packages?

3) Finally, two REALLY stupid questions: 

I've had different people tell me different ways to use the inner cover. Should it be placed on the hive so as to have the spacing facing the outer cover, or facing the hive? What is the purpose of having the spacing on only one side of the inner cover?

Should I be raising up one end of the outer cover during the winter with a small stone or such? I do this in the summer to help ventilation but have not done it in the winter. It seems, however, that the inside of at least one of my hives was damp and I'm thinking I may not have ventilated it enough. 

Thanks for any replies.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>1) What is the best way for me to get the dead hives back up and going? Specifically, can I buy a package of local (5.6 Italian) bees and put them in the small cell foundation? Will they us it or destroy it and remake it to large cell?

I'd just put some of the small cell in the middle of the brood nest and the leave the rest bare foundation. The 5.6 bees will happlily raise brood in the 4.9. I would just put a minimum in so they don't decide to steal wax from one place to use another place (like capping the brood). But they would probably not tear it up even if you put them in a hive full of it. My experience is they seem to like it, they just can't build it.

>I'd like to not mail-order small cell bees because of the high rates of dead-bees in packages of small cell bees I've received in the past (we're a long way from any small cell package bee operators).

Been there.

>2) If I need to go with small cell bees (not the locals), would you recommend splitting the remaining hives or mail ordering packages?

You've got small cell combs. That's the hard part. I'd just use the large bees and let them regress. It will happen pretty much in one step anyway. But if you do buy small cell bees, I wouldn't split them down to any less than one pound and IF I did, I'd put that one pound package in a 5 frame nuc, not a full hive. Then after it gets going, move it into a 10 frame box.

>3) Finally, two REALLY stupid questions: 

If you don't know the answer, it's not a stupid question.

>I've had different people tell me different ways to use the inner cover. Should it be placed on the hive so as to have the spacing facing the outer cover, or facing the hive? What is the purpose of having the spacing on only one side of the inner cover?

I've seen a lot of different designs of inner covers with the shorter side (less clearance) anywhere from flush to 1/8" and the deeper side anywhere from 1/4" to 3/8". The idea of an inner cover is to reduce condensation on the lid. If you don't leave an air space at the top then it won't reduce the condensation. I've seen people who used the ones with two different spacing with the 1/8" space down during summer so the bees don't build burr, and the 1/8" space up in the winter to provide more cluster space at the top. I think you defeat the purpose of the inner cover if you don't have an airspace at the top during the winter. The idea of a 1/4" to 3/8" space is that the bees will patrol this and keep the ants out of the cover. More and the bees will build comb there, less and the ants move in.

>Should I be raising up one end of the outer cover during the winter with a small stone or such? I do this in the summer to help ventilation but have not done it in the winter. It seems, however, that the inside of at least one of my hives was damp and I'm thinking I may not have ventilated it enough. 

You could. I would be careful, some ventilation is a good thing. Too much is not, but a popsicle stick laying flat on one end to hold the outer cover up 3/32" or so would probably be about right.


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## Pat (Aug 2, 2001)

Rich, 

just curious...but did you diagnose why the hives died? Do you still have mite pressure after regressing?

I suspect you're still at least a month away from any sort of bloom in NJ...here's hoping you don't lose any more!


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## Rich Angerer (Aug 28, 2001)

Thanks for both of your replies.

MB - I understand your reply to indicate that the key to the mite resistance of 4.9 bees is simply that they are in smaller cells and therefore develop and emerge somewhat faster than 5.6 cell bees, causing problems for the mite life-cycle. Whether the queen (and drone?) were 4.9 or 5.6 is really not important (or not as important). Is this accurate?

I have inner covers that are flush on one side and about 1/4" clearance on the other. On the inner covers you speak of, where they have, say, 1/8" on one side and 3/8" spacing on on the other, should there be a small (about 3/4") wide cutout on both of these lips for bee ingress/egress or just on one lip (and if only one, which one)?

Thanks.

Pat - Haven't had any tests done on the bees, but believe (because I only lost 2 hives prior to this) that the cause was insufficient ventilation and condensation. We had (as I know you did also) a very severe winter and I attempted to better insulate the hives and reduce the cold air. This, in combination with not having any spacing between the inner and outer cover seems to have caused dampness in the hives and was the reason for the losses.

I had 3 hives from small cell bees I bought from Bolling Bee in Alabama; split all 3 hives last spring and put new hygenic queens from Minnesota in the splits. Should not have had any mite problems and don't believe I did.

If we see blooms in a month it would be a welcome blessing. Seems like this winter just won't give up!


Rich


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## genecot (Nov 10, 2003)

Rich I just noticed your last name. Since it is not real common I was wondering if we might be related. I am in texas and theres a lot of us angerers here. 

------------------
Thank You


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>MB - I understand your reply to indicate that the key to the mite resistance of 4.9 bees is simply that they are in smaller cells and therefore develop and emerge somewhat faster than 5.6 cell bees, causing problems for the mite life-cycle.

I think that is one of the signifcant (and measurable) differences in mite resistance of small cell bees. It certainly may not be the only factor.

>Whether the queen (and drone?) were 4.9 or 5.6 is really not important (or not as important). Is this accurate?

I have put many typical commercial queens on small cell. All but two happily layed in small cell. I have put packages of 5.4 bees, with commercial queens on small cell and they have done fine. They will regress quickly if you have small cell comb. I think it's nice to have a small cell queen and the small cell drones will outfly the larger ones, but as far as the survival of a hive, putting large bees on small cells works great.

>I have inner covers that are flush on one side and about 1/4" clearance on the other. On the inner covers you speak of, where they have, say, 1/8" on one side and 3/8" spacing on on the other, should there be a small (about 3/4") wide cutout on both of these lips for bee ingress/egress or just on one lip (and if only one, which one)?

Sometimes there is a notch. Sometimes there is not. Usually it's on the side with more space and usually it's put on with the notch up. But it will work the other way, you'll just get some burr between the top frames and the inner cover.


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