# Top bar only/vertial.



## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

And this is how you do it - just the bars.
Due to small size - each section is small and sturdy enough to hold even if full of honey.
Watch:


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Compare to this frame I got here - very much exact same logic.
Look at how each frame section is built-out - only attached at the top and very little at the sides and the bottom.


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## msl (Sep 6, 2016)

yep... of note sam comfort shorted the height of his vertical top bar hives to 6" for the same reason, to limit the attachments


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

msl said:


> yep... of note sam comfort shorted the height of his vertical top bar hives to 6" for the same reason, to limit the attachments


Which is nominally consistent with the frame/box sizing of this project that I am doing. 
I should try plugging a couple of just the top bars and watch what happens (which will require pretty close vertical alignment with the bars above/below - just to keep in mind and doable).








CVH (Compact Vertical Hive) by GregV


So yeah, I made my first CV hive and even put bees into it yesterday. https://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?350173-GregV-s-Alternative-way-to-keep-(have-)-bees&p=1837675#post1837675 For the spring 2021 will build a bunch of standard small frames so to manage this thing by a box (the...




www.beesource.com





Gonna say heresy here, but I am liking this unified CVH format more and more - to the point of asking myself - why do I need to bother with the Styrofoam coolers? 
The way it is going, I may take all my coolers back to the recycling dump. LOL
Well, as soon as I make enough CVH equipment.
Will see.


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## little_john (Aug 4, 2014)

Very interesting video Greg - thanks for the link ... 

I couldn't understand a word the guy was saying of course, but a couple of details stood out: firstly he has seven bars installed - that suggests an internal box footprint of what - 11" x 11" ?
He has an unusual method of Top-Bar install - which looks complicated to me - the recesses in the box wall look easy enough to make, but the Top-Bars themselves (which appear to be semi-circular) - how on earth does he make those ? But on the positive side - I notice that there doesn't appear to be much in the way of Top-Bar lugs being propolised into those recesses - so clearly that technique works.  But *how* does he make those Top-Bars ??

Ok - comb adhesions to the box walls (the scourge of Top-Bar beekeeping) - I noticed that he frequently (but not always) briefly uses a lightweight tool to ensure that the comb is not attached - so this must still occur to some degree, but maybe not as bad as with deeper combs.

There must be more to this comb dimension business than meets the eye - i.e. it can't be *just *a six-inch depth which is the secret, because that was the depth of comb which Langstroth was working with when he made his breakthrough way back in 1851-ish, and which was due precisely to him being hacked-off with the comb adhesions which occurred within the otherwise 'perfect' set-up he'd created by enlarging the surface area of the 12x12 Bevan Top-Bar Hive to 18x18(x6), in order to install more honey-boxes on top.

It would be interesting to know if this guy has anything specific to say about this particular issue (*and* how he makes his bars - is it just the 'lugs' which are semi-circular, or the full-length ?).

Ingenious people in that neck of the woods. 
LJ


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

little_john said:


> Very interesting video Greg - thanks for the link ...
> 
> I couldn't understand a word the guy was saying of course, but a couple of details stood out: firstly he has seven bars installed - that suggests an internal box footprint of what - 11" x 11" ?
> He has an unusual method of Top-Bar install - which looks complicated to me - the recesses in the box wall look easy enough to make, but the Top-Bars themselves (which appear to be semi-circular) - how on earth does he make those ? But on the positive side - I notice that there doesn't appear to be much in the way of Top-Bar lugs being propolised into those recesses - so clearly that technique works.  But *how* does he make those Top-Bars ??
> ...


Hey LJ!

The top bars:
(pretty sure here) are just of this cross-section (unsure if two-piece or one-piece). EDIT: looks like one-piece.








The bars fit into semi-circular cuts in the support, like so:










But there are also flat bars in place. There is really a mix - most likely a product of experimentation. 
He does state that the bees appear to cross-connect MORE to the flat top bars vs. the "V" shaped top bars.
The "V" shaped bars are of interest here.

There is another guy, Homich, (one of the very original designers of the Russian "alpine" hives) - who years ago proposed "W" shaped top bars - as a way to discourage the cross-frame downward connections. 
Since then the idea has been commercialized and seems to be working well for the small-frame operators.
Here is just one implementation - watch:





The way the bars are fixed in place is what this guy has been doing (the same he does in his 6-frame boxes too - on standard frames).
This is just his way (whereas I prefer to be able to shift my frames/bars horizontally; same for most everyone else).

He has recent videos on the 6-frame subject after one-year run with them - generally he is pleased (discount for his own mistakes learned construction-wise).

The hive cross-section:
He never mentioned once.
This guy is actually a big improvisor and does not care much for the conventions.
Can be anything.
Let me ask him. (DID ask).

Comb attachment issue:
Indeed he has this little "hooky" tool to cut the attachments and he mentions that in passing.
An issue but a minor one - due to 1) the small comb sizing and 2) exact vertical alignment of the bars.
So the comb attachment scale is similar to that picture of my own above I posted - very minor.
Notice in my frame - I very much improvise with the cross-bars (those are irregular scraps cut from a broken window) - the effect is very similar.

Given enough interest, he will post more videos about his vertical top bars.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

One obvious plus of this hive demonstrated here - very minimal amount of the wood that utilizes the internal volume.
So the internal volume of boxes is very, very efficiently used.

Just thinking of all these Lang top bars, bottom bars, side bars - make me cringe - lots of wood for nothing
(I guess the extra wood is needed by the large scale operators, the usual).
Though I still like my own small frame made from scraps - it stands very well, sturdy enough and easier to handle/store/transport vs. just the top-bar combs - it does take some up-front work (this is granted).


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

GregV said:


> Let me ask him. (DID ask).


 He responded:


> Внутренний размер 27х27 см, высота корпуса 95 мм. Расстояние между центрами планок 37, 5 мм. Все остальные моменты будут позже.
> Толщина стенки 20 мм.


In metric; convert at needed.

Internal box sizing - 270mm x 270mm
Box height - 95mm
Top bar center separation - 37.5mm
Wall board thickness - 20mm.


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## msl (Sep 6, 2016)

little_john said:


> how on earth does he make those


perhaps erroriounly I assumed it was out side coroner molding 









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