# Spin Float Seperators



## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

I can only speak of the machine from the 60's. There was about 2 minutes of start up attention, maybe 10 minutes at the end of the day, with only the need to "babysit" the barrel of cappings below when it filled up. It did an adequate job of separating the honey, but was NOISY. There was a slight heat exchanger needed to prevent crystallization in the drum. Be aware that an unattended power failure is a real mess.

Crazy Roland


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Right I hear about the unattended power failure messes from everyone. Is that because the pump doesnt stop when the spinner kicks out? How much honey does the spinner run in the barrel?

How do you finish off with it? Whats involved? Does it require a 10 min job when breaking for coffee or lunch or some other interruption throughout the work day? 

thx


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

The cappings are held in by centrifugal force and if they dont have enough time to spin out they simply fall out if the power stops. I have been around them some and know a little about them but feel like one of the few commercials that have never operated one. We use a Cowen spinner and after our experience with their latest model this year I am thinking a lot like you are at the moment. When the Cowen is operated properly it gets cappings much dryer and rarely aerates the honey but because only about 1/3 of the honey goes through it our tanks really get loaded with wax particularly on a year with such low moisture honey.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

ya, Im trying to cut my work load down in the day by not having the chore of skimming tanks and sumps. I dont have a Cowen spinner but a spinner all the same, and it works, cheaply but clean honey in the tank is like a dream to me. 

soooo, I suckered you into this conversation nicely, 

With all you experience with the spin float, why is it that you do not have one yourself?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

And whats up with Cowens latest spinner? Thought they were trouble free, 
or is it the dry honey your referring to from this years unusually dry honey harvest. 
I had a below average crop due to dryness, but not bad considering. Not once did I ever think of having moisture issues throughout the pulls
dry dry air this year


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

My experience pretty much consists of seeing quite a number of them in operation in others' extracting rooms and talking to the folks that use them. Why don't I use them? I have asked myself that a lot this year. I guess I know with the Cowen I can get my cappings dryer, I have an extracting room designed for it and I am familiar with it. The C&B requires a heat exchanger, an extra pump, and a different style of auger it all adds up to over $30,000 compared with around $9,000 for a Cowen system that I am familiar with. We purchased our first Cowen spinner in the late 1980's and it served us real well for many years. Last year it's age began showing as we had a couple major incidents where things got bent up pretty badly and Cowen offered me a real good trade in for a new one. Unfortunately the new one has had some problems from start up that we had to deal with, once we got things working properly we discovered that the construction isn't as "beefy" as the old one and that it cant tolerate even mild imbalances without gyrating badly. It can usually handle extracting at the rate of about a ton an hour but requires a pretty vigilant eye. This season was a real challenge for it because we were running a lot of honey in the sub 16% range and that made it an even bigger challenge. Add to that all the tank skimmings and you get the picture. I think Cowens are great people and generally build real nice stuff but it dosent appear to me that they have really made an attempt to compete with the C&B. My guess is that they have their plate full with their extractors and other misc. equipment which they do so well that they have decided to stay away from directly competing with C&B's patented system.


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## soupcan (Jan 2, 2005)

Anyone own or know of anyone who has purchased one of the redesigned Maxant cappings spinners that need no heat exchanger. I understand that they have built a bunch of proto types in the past years & now they have started a production run of quite a few units. We really would like to talk with an owner of one to see if they work properly so to speak!


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Is the Maxant spinner just a cappings spinner?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

I understand how the machine work, its a centrifuge. Very interesting design.

how do you shut down the machine for coffee, or lunch or some other reason during the day. Does it involve a complete clean out?


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## Birds&Bees (Feb 26, 2009)

Run it all day, don't shut it down for coffee or lunch. If you need to shut it down, simply dump the honey which doesn't take that long, 10-15 minutes. Start up is simple, just remember to close the ports which hold the honey in the drum. $30k is what you'll need to get set up and in you have the cowen 60, you may want to consider their wax auger/sump to collect all the honey and wax. No wax in your holding tanks is worth it, Wax comes out very dry. You need to remove and empty the drum once a week or after you let it sit for more than a day without putting honey through it. A forklift makes this job simple. Compared to the Cowen spinner I feel this investment is paying for itself with less work and less honey in the wax. You won't regret it, interest rates are cheap if you have to borrow, I'm sure FCC likes your farm.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Ha ha ha, yes Gilles, they like our farm!

So, if I were to piece together a system, used pumps, used heat exchanger, used spinner, make use of my sump to pump from now, 
would I be happy with a working system? Does the old spinners work as effectively as the new ones?

I use to use an old Jumbo uncapper. I worked but sometimes thought it created more work than if I were just scratching
then I bought a NEW Cowen uncapper. Best investment of my beekeeping career. I have a kid working it and it just runs, never causes any problems

So when comparing an old spinner to a new one, am I going to wish I just bought a new one?

I know I know $30,000 is an investment Blah blah blah.
BUT we have many places to put money on this farm, and cutting my cost to $15000 used set up is closer to doable


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## Allen Martens (Jan 13, 2007)

Been using a C&B for the last three years. I'd say for the most part it doesn't require much babysitting but does require a greater level of expertise by the person trouble shooting. Definitely wax processing is no longer the step that slows down extracting rate.

I've done some modifications to the collecting tray to make things simpler and if I were to order one again, I would get them to custom modify the collecting tray to make wax management simpler and less messy ( not sure why C&B hasn't done some of this themselves).

If the tray under the machine is designed well, power outages are not an issue. The honey and wax drops into the tray and cleans up is fast and easy.

I put the spinner into a small insulated room that I can close entrance side with plastic sheeting. That way if we are not extracting for several days I heat the room and I don't have to clean the drum. We usually clean the drum about 2 times a summer at most. The room is facing the extractor and is a bit of an echo chamber so next year I am going to hang plastic strips on the entrance side to see if I can reduce the noise.

A new auger is most likely needed for this system. The cowen honey and wax collection system works well.

Frames need to be in good shape for the heat exchanger. Pieces of wood and wire especially will get caught in the exchanger. Some people I have talked to say they have some major problems in this regard, but it hasn't been a big deal for us (knock on wood).


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Thanks for the input. I think I have pretty much the feed back I was looking for.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

http://www.maxantindustries.com/spinners.html

does anyone have any experience with this machine? They claim "Auger your slurry to the center opening of the drum. (heat not required)

"http://honeybeeworld.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=328


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Ian said:


> http://www.maxantindustries.com/spinners.html
> 
> does anyone have any experience with this machine? They claim "Auger your slurry to the center opening of the drum. (heat not required)
> 
> "http://honeybeeworld.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=328


Nope. " Expect to be able to run 3 drums per hour with reports of 10,000 lbs. in 8 hours?" :scratch:


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## gregstahlman (Oct 7, 2009)

my best advice for the heat exchanger is get the end manifold that has a quick attach for cleaning out debris on the end of the tube. it does away with the old motor driven setup and maybe needs to be cleaned out once a week which takes 2 minutes to do. as for power outages and surges on the seperator is concerned. if the power shuts off u have maybe 30 seconds or more to either trip the dump lever. or if the the power surges and shuts the unit down all u have to do it set it to "manual," turn the speed up, and turn back to auto once machine is back up to full speed. without following those steps you will have a mess to clean up


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

thats useful info to know. 

I keep hearing " if the power shuts down you will be cleaning up a mess"
does the honey fall straight down into the wax tub or all over on the floor?

Also, I have been talking to a beekeeper in the chat room, who runs one of these machines. I have always been told that the honey has to be pumped continuously for proper operation except for him, who runs his honey wax in intervals as his trough fills. and from the way he described how the machine operated through out the day I dont know why I have been told it had to be fed continuously,.?


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## swarm_trapper (Jun 19, 2003)

i have a maxant spiner sitting in the honey house right now hope to start using it this week, could be a fun week. Hope it does everything they say lol. Nick


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Keep us posted. I am trying to make year end decisions myself. I think the whole "If the power goes out" argument may be a bit overblown. I can't remember the last time it has happened unexpectedly and really, a mess in the honey house? What's new about that.


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## greenbeekeeping (Feb 13, 2003)

We have a Cook n beals spin float and heat exchanger. The spin float runs great. Turn it on and go. It is loud and I would like to have a room built around it someday. We took the tray out from the bottom and put a barrel underneath that we cut down to fit to catch the wax. The only time you need to clean it out is if you run into some crystallized honey. We cleaned it out once durning the season this year right towards the end of 27 extractings. The heat exchanger gives me some fits sometimes at startup. Our honey house is unheated and the honey and wax during startup is pretty cold later in the season. Also I did have the power go out but I heard the spinner winding down and flipped the gates on it so saved it from having a big mess. This outfit has probabbly about paid for itself condidering we hardly have any melter honey anymore.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

>>and really, a mess in the honey house? What's new about that.

ha ha ha

Very interesting talking to beekeepers about using this machine. Right up my alley. I think Im going to like this machine


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## swarm_trapper (Jun 19, 2003)

Matt, do you still get a little melter honey out of the cappings? or did you totaly get rid of your melter honey.
Nick


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## Birds&Bees (Feb 26, 2009)

Ian, the design of the spinner has not changed, its just like a cream separator. The new heat exchangers have an easy release cover on the intake end to clean it out. I clean it out each morning. The new spinners come with a sump which is nice and simple for setting up. If you are buying used, run it and if it is noisy, likely the bearings need to be replaced, the new ones have a grease bank for easy maintenance. My spinner runs very quiet, the uncapper is louder, keep it well greased, and it should stay that way. An old heat exchanger could have had water instead of oil in it and water corrodes it over time. Get some spare parts, ie: an O-ring kit for the heat exchanger.


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## greenbeekeeping (Feb 13, 2003)

Hey Nick. Yes we still get some I think we had a barrel or maybe barrel and half last year. Not much but a little.


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## swarm_trapper (Jun 19, 2003)

really you still get that much? how many pounds of wax was that honey out of?
Nick


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

I expect to be well under 1/2 of 1 % with a well monitored Cowen spinner. Although on a low moisture year like this one we probably had a few instances when a really high volume of honey and a really impatient operator (usually me) resulted in some less than dry cappings getting unloaded.


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## Rob Renneker (Aug 7, 2006)

jim lyon said:


> We purchased our first Cowen spinner in the late 1980's and it served us real well for many years....


Jim,

I remember when you and grandpa first got that spinner; boy I thought that was pretty state of the art at the time. That sure lasted well for a lot of years and was a good machine as long as the guys extracting kept an eye on it once in a while.


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

Purchased the maxant this year. I have run the cook and beals in Florida the past few years. Did a great job. Only problem I have with it is you need the temperature of gthe honey at 102 and a little higher if dry to keep the air out. Since I. Bottle everything foggy honey is a issue...it is easy to run and use. I purchassed the maxan tbecause it is smaller and takes up less room. My honey extracting room was designed for a 44 frame Hubbard when I had 150 vpnies and was buying three semi loafs to bottle. So space is a issue. Also I didn't need to buy a heat exchanger shock is 6k or more. Down side is since its smaller around it is easier to get out of balance at start up.haven't used it much yet as it took me 3 times as long to make my room larger move electric and plumbing install drain under system fill pit and move drain then install a 60 frame cowen. End result is I have about 1200 boxes on the bees and another 600 I just pulled. I have used once...must start up at about 60 percent speed with a small stream at constant flow until it is full with honey coming out. Then speed up and let her go. Easy to operate u just have a learning curve. U
You must have a sump or tank for the honey to run into and pump it out to your tanks. So far honey is not foggy. And is ready to bottle. And yes if electric goes off hit dump valves. Best situation would be a two floor building with honey running down below. Will finish pulling this week...in two more weeks I should be well experienced. Both companies build great equipment.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Keep us posted suttonbeeman


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

I realize this is wandering off topic, but does anyone know if the spinfloat style separators remove ant pollen? It is important in light if the lawsuits in Florida and California over honey that has been ultra filtered. I can see the defense claiming that "Everyone" removes some pollen with a spinfloat type device.

Crazy Roland


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## dgl1948 (Oct 5, 2005)

suttonbeeman said:


> Purchased the maxant this year. ......in two more weeks I should be well experienced. Both companies build great equipment.


Can you give us an update on this unit?


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## dgl1948 (Oct 5, 2005)

Could you give us an update? How did the Maxant work?



suttonbeeman said:


> Purchased the maxant this year. I have run the cook and beals in Florida the past few years. Did a great job. Only problem I have with it is you need the temperature of gthe honey at 102 and a little higher if dry to keep the air out. Since I. Bottle everything foggy honey is a issue...it is easy to run and use. I purchassed the maxan tbecause it is smaller and takes up less room. My honey extracting room was designed for a 44 frame Hubbard when I had 150 vpnies and was buying three semi loafs to bottle. So space is a issue. Also I didn't need to buy a heat exchanger shock is 6k or more. Down side is since its smaller around it is easier to get out of balance at start up.haven't used it much yet as it took me 3 times as long to make my room larger move electric and plumbing install drain under system fill pit and move drain then install a 60 frame cowen. End result is I have about 1200 boxes on the bees and another 600 I just pulled. I have used once...must start up at about 60 percent speed with a small stream at constant flow until it is full with honey coming out. Then speed up and let her go. Easy to operate u just have a learning curve. U
> You must have a sump or tank for the honey to run into and pump it out to your tanks. So far honey is not foggy. And is ready to bottle. And yes if electric goes off hit dump valves. Best situation would be a two floor building with honey running down below. Will finish pulling this week...in two more weeks I should be well experienced. Both companies build great equipment.


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

Well I can say the maxant is definitely worth its weight in gold. Maxant does need a veido to help you learn how quicker. A fellow been in NY was of great help to me . Just gotta fine tune it. Start with pencil size stream at 60% speed. Honey I was running with was about 80 deg. When honey starts to come out outlet move cutter knives to about 25 percent cutting. (25% over from none). Speed up spinner to wide open...mine vibrates a little over 80 % so I'm running it there...need to figure that out. At end of day let machine run 15 minutes then cut wax by moving lever one notch at time all the was over AFTER closing to 55 %. Once wax is cut I slow spinner to 30% and open dump valves slowly then speed to 60 % to 80%. . Let run about 5 minutes and turn off. I turn water on knives when it starts cutting wax...turn off 30 minutes before shutdown. If you leave water on ...well its a mess...got watery honey so don't forget! Wax is dry ad powder...awesome


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## davidsbees (Feb 22, 2010)

The C&B I have is 40 years old I have rebuilt once. On a good day we can run 22 barrels. This year was the worst in 40 years ran 22 barrels all year. Make sure knives are sharp and the heat exchanger is up to temp and run! It cuts wax all day. The capping are put straight into the wax melter to melt the next day. I check through out the day to make sure the cappings are dry and adjust the knives accordingly. If the honey temp is right and RPM on the is correct not much air in the honey. I run the water only when the knives are cutting. All the honey and cappings goes through spinner i have a sump for the honey and cappings then to a 2" moyno pump to the heat exchanger to the spinner. finnished honey to a small sump to the holding tank. I clean spinner every day.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

do you pull the drum every day?


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## davidsbees (Feb 22, 2010)

No, just reach in with your hand becareful not to get cut with the knives. And be sure to cut the wax down before you dump the honey at shut down. Then you can clean out the remaining wax. Only take the drum at the end of the year. Any wett capping you can rerun the next day.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

how do you reach in? The machines I have seen are pretty well closed up


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## davidsbees (Feb 22, 2010)

You reach in where the wax falls out. You need to make sure the knives screwed back. Don't lub the machine to much it as bad as not lubing enough. I lub once a year. I rebuilt the spin float in the mid 80's.


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## dgl1948 (Oct 5, 2005)

suttonbeeman said:


> Well I can say the maxant is definitely worth its weight in gold. Maxant does need a veido to help you learn how quicker. A fellow been in NY was of great help to me . Just gotta fine tune it. Start with pencil size stream at 60% speed. Honey I was running with was about 80 deg. When honey starts to come out outlet move cutter knives to about 25 percent cutting. (25% over from none). Speed up spinner to wide open...mine vibrates a little over 80 % so I'm running it there...need to figure that out. At end of day let machine run 15 minutes then cut wax by moving lever one notch at time all the was over AFTER closing to 55 %. Once wax is cut I slow spinner to 30% and open dump valves slowly then speed to 60 % to 80%. . Let run about 5 minutes and turn off. I turn water on knives when it starts cutting wax...turn off 30 minutes before shutdown. If you leave water on ...well its a mess...got watery honey so don't forget! Wax is dry ad powder...awesome


What were you putting through for volume in a day?


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## lake thompson honey (Feb 11, 2007)

There is no better seperator than the spin float. The new ones seperate much better than the old ones. I have had both. Get the electronic speed control. Mount a second spray nozzle inside pointed directly at the wax cake and your wax will come out like saw dust. Put the wax in a container with tiny holes in the bottom to drain off any excess liquid. I don't have to pull the drum all season since bought a new one. Invest in a drum puller. Save you from a broken arm.


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## Allen Martens (Jan 13, 2007)

I agree with about cleaning once a season with the new spring floats.

Curious about the second nozzle, how far from the wax cake did you mount it?

Thanks


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## davidsbees (Feb 22, 2010)

I also have a second nozzle just on the other side of the rubber flap. one reason I run the water only when its cutting, to prevent to much moisture in the honey.


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## lake thompson honey (Feb 11, 2007)

theres a place to mount the second nozzle right next to the first one. just take out the plug and install it


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## Allen Martens (Jan 13, 2007)

Finally went and took a look at the nozzle setup on my spin float. I see that adding a second nozzle to the T would be very easy.

Thanks


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

davidsbees said:


> You reach in where the wax falls out. You need to make sure the knives screwed back. Don't lub the machine to much it as bad as not lubing enough. I lub once a year. I rebuilt the spin float in the mid 80's.


I am pulling this old post back up from a search I was doing. 

To update, I have bought a spin float and ran it for one season now. It is the best honeyhouse investment I have made.

Reading through this old post and noticed a comment from David... how the heck to you reach in and clean the drum??? LOL you must be more agile than I


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

A while back someone posted a pic of a catch pan they made up that went under the spinner to catch the wax. I would be interested in seeing that pic again. 
I want to make something that will help keep the area around the unit clean! Also when things in the honeyhouse go wrong and the spinner is turned off..., it would be nice to have a pan under to catch the honey and drain into a holding tub so that its not wasted on the floor... 

I have plumbed in a solenoid which only runs the knife cooling water when the pump is actually cutting, wired to my honey pump. That was a great tip!


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Interesting post by David about lubrication. The new machines have labels on them stating (I think) they should be lubricated every 40 hours. We give all the bearings a couple grease pumps per week. They have been trouble free but then it's just been 2 seasons. Is there really a downside to too much lubrication?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

If the bearings are sealed, then the grease would just be towards the outer collar, so too much is not an issue. If they are sealed bearings


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## Allen Martens (Jan 13, 2007)

This is what you might be looking for Ian. I put deflectors on the side as well to direct wax into the pan and have the pan sloped towards the back.


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## davidsbees (Feb 22, 2010)

Pat at C&B cautioned me about over lubing a bearing and you can just google it. I raised my spinner 10" and bolted it to a 3/4" plate that I anchored to the floor.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Thanks guys

a curtain is a good idea


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Allen Martens said:


> This is what you might be looking for Ian. I put deflectors on the side as well to direct wax into the pan and have the pan sloped towards the back.


That is what I am going to make. 

This spin float is extremely effective at separating wax from honey, but the machine itself is extremely cumbersome...


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## Allen Martens (Jan 13, 2007)

We use a window squeegee to pull the wax into a container. In a power failure honey can all be saved. I am thinking of putting one more deflector vertically along the left front leg. Usually not much of a wax mess now.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Ian said:


> Thanks guys
> 
> a curtain is a good idea


Yes, what David did is pretty much exactly what we have been talking about doing....but have never done. We just slide a large storage type tote under it which catches maybe 90% and do a thorough hot water spray at the end of each day.


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## Brian Suchan (Apr 6, 2005)

Ian said:


> A while back someone posted a pic of a catch pan they made up that went under the spinner to catch the wax. I would be interested in seeing that pic again.
> I want to make something that will help keep the area around the unit clean! Also when things in the honeyhouse go wrong and the spinner is turned off..., it would be nice to have a pan under to catch the honey and drain into a holding tub so that its not wasted on the floor...
> 
> I have plumbed in a solenoid which only runs the knife cooling water when the pump is actually cutting, wired to my honey pump. That was a great tip![/QUOTE
> ...


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Brian Suchan said:


> Ian said:
> 
> 
> > A while back someone posted a pic of a catch pan they made up that went under the spinner to catch the wax. I would be interested in seeing that pic again.
> ...


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Bought it from my plumber, cost $50, had to plumb it down from inch pipe fitting


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

Ian said:


> Bought it from my plumber, cost $50, had to plumb it down from inch pipe fitting


Lots of options here: http://www.mcmaster.com/#water-solenoid-valves/=w3g4yx


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

OK, I am feeling stupid here. What changed? Back in the late 60's, ours had a deflector cone, and sat high enough to fit a 55 gallon drum underneath. When it was full, you slid it out and slid in a new one. Are the new units lower to the ground? From memory, the top of the drum was almost 8 feet off the ground, with just enough room to pull the drum once in the fall.

Crazy Roland


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## davidsbees (Feb 22, 2010)

They have always been the same heights but some beekeepers put leg extensions on to raise it up. The one I have was built in the early 60' I remember seeing it when I was 10 years old then my dad and I bought it out of a junk pile 20 years ago and rebuilt it.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Trying to scrape out the drum on my machine from underneath would be quite the task. Not to mention sticky! Lol. I have enough room to slip a tote under. 

Roland, I think you mentioned a while back about building a seperate room for the spin float, the only way we can hear if the machine is running is when the honey pump turns on and the knives start cutting wax. These new machines are quiet


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

And the honey discharge was high enough to flow in a covered trough to a tank that was high enough for a barrel to fit in below. One pump, a moyno from the mixing tank in a sump below the extractors, then gravity from there. In the new shop, no pumps, all gravity.

Crazy Roland


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