# Beginner Top Bar Hive Problem !!



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

One bad comb leads to another. I would try to straighten things out, at least where the next comb will get built. You may need to build some frames so you can rubber band a straight comb in them to get the next comb straight.


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## Mbarker (May 2, 2017)

Michael Bush said:


> One bad comb leads to another. I would try to straighten things out, at least where the next comb will get built. You may need to build some frames so you can rubber band a straight comb in them to get the next comb straight.


Thanks so much Michael. If I remove the top bars with the bad comb and replaced with new ones , would that possibly work. Also, do you have any idea why the bees would be hanging out around the feeder jar ?

BTW, I bought the Pracical Beekeeper and love it. If you ever put out something dedicated to top bar hives I think iy would be a big hit. I've had a little experience with the Langstroth hives but so far the KTBH seems so much easier. 

Thanks again for your help !!


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## CrazyTalk (Jan 27, 2015)

Mbarker said:


> Thanks so much Michael. If I remove the top bars with the bad comb and replaced with new ones , would that possibly work. Also, do you have any idea why the bees would be hanging out around the feeder jar ?
> 
> BTW, I bought the Pracical Beekeeper and love it. If you ever put out something dedicated to top bar hives I think iy would be a big hit. I've had a little experience with the Langstroth hives but so far the KTBH seems so much easier.
> 
> Thanks again for your help !!


Find the straightest piece of comb you can, fix it to a topbar or frame, and place it at the end/beginning of the area that's a mess - you want to basically create a boundary that basically forces them to draw comb the way you want them to. With a new first year package, I don't think I'd want to remove the crooked comb yet - wait until they build up a bunch of straight stuff. A piece of waxed plastic foundation (cut to the right shape/dimensions for your top bar hive) would probably work real well.


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## Mbarker (May 2, 2017)

Thanks very much !! Will do !!


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## T0ADMAN (Aug 5, 2011)

It is interesting that you say tbh are easier while you are having difficulty getting your bees to draw straight comb (a problem you seldom have in a Lang). Tbh are great and fun, but easier is not an accurate statement. They require much more work and attention to details than langs. If you want a hive for fun, they are great. If you are trying to produce, they are less efficient. 

The bees clustered around a food source. Why would they want to cluster far away from the food. It makes sense. The best thing youc an do, is have a follower board with a hole that fits a board man feeder. That will prevent the bees from being able to access the feeder space. It will keep them in the cavity where you want them to draw comb. A piece of cardboard or styrofoam should work as a temporary follower board. 

I disagree that you should leave cross comb in a new hive. Sure it will allow them to raise brood, but the rest of the comb will continue to be cross comb. Getting them to draw straight comb next to cross comb is nearly impossible. In a tbh the most important thing is to get them off to a start with straight comb. From there the rest is easy. I would recommend putting a straight piece in where you want it, if possible. If not, I'd still scrape out all the bad stuff and make them do it over. I'd do it immediately before they get a chance to waste resources on the brood in the comb. If you have access to a frame of comb you can cut down or even a sheet of foundation, I'd use it. Like I said, straight comb is the number one priority in a ktbh.


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

The new wax is very soft so you can either smoosh it back in line with the comb guide, or cut it off completely and rehang it correctly with a masking tape sling. And if only part of a comb is cross combed, you have the option of just shaving off the wonky part and leaving the straight in-line stuff attached to the bar.

As for the feeder, do you have the option of moving it behind your follower board where the bees can still get to it, but will be less likely to build comb in that area? I only get comb on my bottle feeders when they are in very close proximity to the brood nest (like with 6 bar nucs)


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## Mbarker (May 2, 2017)

Thanks Toadman. I have 1 1/4" and 1 1/2" top bars, about 50/50. How should I position the in the hive initially and how do I position them as the hive progresses? Might use all 1 3/8" in future as Michael Bush says this can work.

Thanks again


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## Mbarker (May 2, 2017)

Thanks Ruth !! I sent a reply but don't see where it went through. I have a partion board adjacent to the feeder with a single hole in it about 1" near bottom. Should it completely seal off access to the feeder except through the 1" hole ? I need to check but don't think mine does.


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

Some people use a bottle feeder with a long spout that they shove through that one inch hole so the bottle is on the other side of the follower board, but the plastic tray with the syrup is in the hive cavity with the brood nest. I get mine off of ebay and find the LeBleu water bottle fits perfectly under my topbars.

As for the different sized bars, Use the 1.25 ones first to build the brood nest. No reason to give them the fatter ones yet.


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## Mbarker (May 2, 2017)

Thanks very much Ruth ! Very helpful !!


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

The point is, removing the bad comb doesn't help much if you don't have a straight comb in the colony for a pattern. If you make a frame and rubber band one of the cross combs so that it is straight, you now have a straight comb. That is a much better risk for the next comb to be straight than removing it and hoping for the best.


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## Mbarker (May 2, 2017)

Thanks Michael. And everyone else too ! All of your advice really helps a true beginner like me.


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## Mbarker (May 2, 2017)

Hi everyone. I just went out to feed my 2 new top bar hive and all but about 50 bees have left the hive that had the messed up comb. The feeder was empty on both hives. I had filled them Wed evening and both hives seemed to be doing ok. I put a plastic wax-covered plastic foundation in as Michael Bush suggested and left the messed up comb for the time being but scraped it off the top bars and left in bottom of hive. If I had accidentally killed the queen wouldn't the bees have staid around for a week or two ? There is no evidence of new comb on ant top bars? Any thoughts would be appreciated !!!


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## Mbarker (May 2, 2017)

Sorry stayed not staid


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## jennifertullis (Apr 24, 2016)

Last year was our first year and we too had problems with cross combing. We tried to straighten the comb and our bees left within three days. We got another package and had the same problem with cross combing. Again tried to rectify only to have our second package disappear. SO disappointing. Over the winter my husband added comb guides to the top bars. Basically an inverted triangle. I'm sure you can find info on them. We just came back from a have inspection and we have 7 perfectly straight combs!! We are now firm believers in comb guides!! I won't have another TBH without them.


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## Mbarker (May 2, 2017)

Thanks Jennifer ! All of my top bars have triangular comb guides. I wonder if the bees could've moved over to my other tbh which is about 10' away ? I would think that is unlikely but will check that out . Thanks again !


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## beesonja (Jun 16, 2017)

That's heartbreaking! I too am using the triangular bars and have had great luck. We also painted melted beeswax to show them where to build when they first started. Now when they get several full straight comb built, I add one or two empty bars in between the full straight comb so that they build more straight comb. I've only had one that what curved on the end that I squished over. Good luck!!


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## Mbarker (May 2, 2017)

Thank you beesonja ! What do you do when they build the whole hive out and have nowhere to go. This is a first-year hive .
Thanks in advance.


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## beesonja (Jun 16, 2017)

I'm a new beekeeper as well, but I think I would make a split and start a new hive, or just wait because our summer dearth is about to start, so they will slow down. How are yours doing now? Are you down to one hive? 

One thing I did a few weeks ago, because I had one hive that was super slow to start and one that was super strong, is give one full bar of brood from my strong hive to the week hive. It really helped becasue the weak hive wasn't making full combs, they were starting new bars and not completing them and filling the space. When I added the full beautiful comb from the strong hive, they started following it and filling out their bars. So fascinating...


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## Mbarker (May 2, 2017)

SORRY BEESONJA. I JUST SAW YOUR POST. I AM DOWN TO JUST ONE HIVE. MY OTHER HIVE DISAPPEARED AFTER A WEEK OR TWO. I CUULD MOVE SOME TOP BARS TO THE EMPTY HIVE BUT HAVE NO QUEEN . HOW WOULD THAT BE POSSIBLE ? THANKS FOR YOUR RESPONSES.


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## beesonja (Jun 16, 2017)

Mbarker said:


> SORRY BEESONJA. I JUST SAW YOUR POST. I AM DOWN TO JUST ONE HIVE. MY OTHER HIVE DISAPPEARED AFTER A WEEK OR TWO. I CUULD MOVE SOME TOP BARS TO THE EMPTY HIVE BUT HAVE NO QUEEN . HOW WOULD THAT BE POSSIBLE ? THANKS FOR YOUR RESPONSES.


Again, I am new also, so I hope someone more experienced chimes in... I would not start a new hive now. Even if you added a new queen today, it would take several weeks for new brood to start hatching. Concentrate on strengthening your one for the winter. Do you have winter? I didn't see where you are from. HOw is your remaining hive doing?


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