# Cryptic messages give game away: Scottish beek. forum busted



## Stromnessbees (Jan 3, 2010)

*Re: Pro Pesticide Shills Expose Themselves on Scottish Beekeeping Forum*

I am sorry but the interesting part of the discussion has now been removed by the peson who runs the forum.
Luckily I have copied the whole discussion and as these were public postings I should have to the right to present them here:

post # 105


> by Stromnessbees
> Senior Member
> Join Date Feb 2010
> Location Orkney
> ...


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## Stromnessbees (Jan 3, 2010)

*Re: Pro Pesticide Shills Expose Themselves on Scottish Beekeeping Forum*

post # 106



> gavin
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> Administrator
> Join Date Feb 2010
> ...


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## Stromnessbees (Jan 3, 2010)

post # 107



> Stromnessbees
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## Stromnessbees (Jan 3, 2010)

*Re: Pro Pesticide Shills Expose Themselves on Scottish Beekeeping Forum*

post # 108


> Jon
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> Senior Member
> Join Date Feb 2010
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## Stromnessbees (Jan 3, 2010)

post # 109



> voytech104
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> Junior Member
> Join Date Jul 2011
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## Stromnessbees (Jan 3, 2010)

post # 110


> Trog
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> Senior Member
> Join Date Feb 2010
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## Stromnessbees (Jan 3, 2010)

post No. 111


> Stromnessbees
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## Stromnessbees (Jan 3, 2010)

post # 112



> Jon
> 
> During the pollen producing period of maize, which as a wind pollinated plant is a minor source for the honeybee, we also have pollen from blackberry, himalayan balsam, rosebay willowherb, the tail end of the white clover, ling heather ie all major sources of pollen. There are also many other lesser sources available such as birds foot trefoil and then of course the ivy in the autumn. The idea that maize is a principal source of pollen for bees is incorrect. It might happen in the mid west of the US where there is basically nothing else.
> If lots of beekeepers tell me it's the pesticides then I will not just dismiss it.
> If they provide real evidence rather than anecdotal evidence, fine.


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## Stromnessbees (Jan 3, 2010)

post 113



> Stromnessbees
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## Stromnessbees (Jan 3, 2010)

post # 114



> Jon
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> Evidence of this statement was what I was interested in. I know what neonicotinoids are.
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> ...


post # 115


> Stromnessbees
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> *A bee 'under the influence' ... *
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## Stromnessbees (Jan 3, 2010)

post # 116



> Jon
> 
> Yes, but it was evidence I was interested in rather than personal theories which stretch the imagination to say the least. You are comparing humans to bees. Is that a useful comparison?


post # 117



> Stromnessbees
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> Originally Posted by Jon
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## Stromnessbees (Jan 3, 2010)

post 118



> Jon
> 
> Yes, Bad science.
> I read that paper when it was published a month ago and in my opinion it is bad science as it does not look at field realistic levels of the pesticide being studied.
> There is no dispute at all that high levels of neonicotinoids cause disorientation. The issue is whether there are problems at field realistic doses.



post 119



> Stromnessbees
> *
> dummer bees in the next generation *
> But it proves that the effect of neonics on bees is typical of a neurotoxin, similar to the effect that alcohol has on humans.
> ...


post # 120


> Jon
> 
> Interesting theory but would need some evidence as opposed to wild conjecture!
> 
> If you drank a pint of petrol it would kill you. Should we ban petrol?



post # 121


> Stromnessbees
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> * damage shows itself half a year later *
> ...


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## Stromnessbees (Jan 3, 2010)

post # 122



> Calum
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> Senior Member
> Join Date Feb 2010
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post # 123


> Jon
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> Really bad science!!!
> That paper has become an internet joke.
> ...


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## Stromnessbees (Jan 3, 2010)

post # 124


> Nellie
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> Senior Member
> Join Date Feb 2010
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post # 125


> gavin
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post # 126


> Stromnessbees
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> * designed to kill *
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## Stromnessbees (Jan 3, 2010)

post # 127



> Jon
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> > Why are you lot so desperately defending these products?
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post 128


> Stromnessbees
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post # 129



> gavin
> 
> But they didn't start when neonics came along! Massive bee losses have been a feature of beekeeping for a very long time, probably as long as beekeeping itself! And the spread of Varroa has made them worse. Yes, previously there were localised bee poisoning incidents. Now - with the exception of the maize planter dust episodes - bee poisoning is rare. Maybe someone will re-post Prof Ratniek's graph on this.



post # 130



> Jon
> 
> Neonicotinoids were introduced in the US 1994 and ccd was first reported in 2006.
> And did you miss the point I made about blaming the swimmers in the swimming pool the other day.
> ...


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## Stromnessbees (Jan 3, 2010)

Now we start getting the extra messages:

post # 131



> Nellie
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> I think the question for the Ban the Neonicotinoid brigade is
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post # 132



> Jon
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> Ratniek's graph
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post # 133



> gavin
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post # 134



> Nellie
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## Stromnessbees (Jan 3, 2010)

post # 135



> gavin
> 
> Otters!! I just love your lateral thinking.
> 
> A couple of weeks ago I was delighted to find - in the neonic-soaked landscape in which I do my beekeeping, just a few hundred m from my apiary, otter spraint.



post # 136



> Nellie
> 
> Lateral? I thought it was an exercise in stating the obvious. Neonics gone, means the pesticides that were in use before come back. Otters didn't live in many rivers because those pesticides tended to run off and kill both the fish and the otters themselves.
> 
> ...



post # 137



> Jon
> 
> I saw an Otter in the River Lagan about a mile from where I live just a few years ago. And I had a fox in the garden on Saturday morning. The dog started barking and going buck mad at 6.15 am and when I went downstairs she was trying to get out to a fox which was standing at the end of the patio. You would think the crop dusters would have got rid of all this dangerous wildlife in Belfast by now.



post # 138



> Stromnessbees
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> * deceiving graph *
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## Stromnessbees (Jan 3, 2010)

post # 139


> Jon
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post # 140


> Stromnessbees
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> The main reason for the return of the otters are the increased water margins enforced by DEFRA.
> The rivers are a lot less polluted now because agricultural activities don't come right to the water's edge anymore.
> ...



post # 141 



> Nellie
> 
> Declining use of pesticides harmful to fish and/or mammals is what I'm going to stick with and I don't want to see their use increase. I even bolded the bit I intended to base my entire, unmoving, conclusion on.
> 
> ...



This is when I grew suspicious!

post # 142



> Stromnessbees
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Thank you for your patience and your interest, you are welcome to post comments now.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

*Re: Pro Pesticide Shills Expose Themselves on Scottish Beekeeping Forum*

Having a conversation with yourself for 18 posts? You need some help.


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## gone2seed (Sep 18, 2011)

*Re: Pro Pesticide Shills Expose Themselves on Scottish Beekeeping Forum*

Stromnessbees,thank you for posting this.I believe there are a couple of pesticide shills on BeeL
as well.


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## jonathan (Nov 3, 2009)

*Re: Pro Pesticide Shills Expose Themselves on Scottish Beekeeping Forum*

LOL
A single link in post 1 would have sufficed as the thread is still on the Scottish forum, just moved to another section as it went off topic on a discussion about winter losses.

http://www.sbai.org.uk/sbai_forum/showthread.php?837-Orcadian-pesticide-discussions


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## D Coates (Jan 6, 2006)

*Re: Pro Pesticide Shills Expose Themselves on Scottish Beekeeping Forum*

Great find jonathan. So if you disagree with Stromnessbees you're obviously a pesticide shill? In otherwords, don't disagree, don't question findings and claims, don't think, and bottoms up with the Coolaid. Isn't that the same claim that the anti-pesticide folks are leveling at the findings of those who produce pesticides? Follow that logic and they're no better that what they claim to stand against. After reading the link many reasonable and logical points and questions were posed but ignored because they didn't support or questioned what Stromnessbees was claiming. Then for Stromnessbees to claim "Pro Pesticide Shills Expose Themselves on Scottish Beekeeping Forum" in the thread title shows this claim to be nuttier the squirrel droppings. This whole thread is Bollocks!


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## jonathan (Nov 3, 2009)

*Re: Pro Pesticide Shills Expose Themselves on Scottish Beekeeping Forum*

And can I let you into a secret. There were no secret messages and there is no conspiracy. No-one was talking in a secret area of the forum or anywhere else. No cryptic messages appeared out of the ether. There was a joke about two water dwelling creatures, Capybaras and otters, avoiding the pesticide swill, which went whooooosh like a 747 straight past Stromnessbees leaving nothing but the small seed of a conspiracy theory in its chemtrail. 
But then who amongst us can legislate for a sense of humour deficit. Maybe Rafa Nadal and his band of Genetically modified Capybaras are about to launch a Bayer sponsored bid for world domination via a Scottish bee forum.
Beam me up Scotty.

http://capybarasthatlooklikerafaelnadal.tumblr.com/


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## D Coates (Jan 6, 2006)

*Re: Pro Pesticide Shills Expose Themselves on Scottish Beekeeping Forum*

Conpiracy theorists can't seem to find scientifically repeatable proof so they grasp to anything that possibly supports their claim. They belittle others who ask for actual proof as they beat their "sky-is-falling" drums. Apparently during these actions, something damages their ability to see humor. Does Bayer make anything for that? 

The Nadal look alike site was quite funny.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

*Re: Pro Pesticide Shills Expose Themselves on Scottish Beekeeping Forum*

I am pretty new on this forum and to beekeeping, but I am curious - what the heck is going on here? Why would the Scotts want us to know about a conspiracy on their bee forum? Why do we even care that they want us to know? Seems like a heated argument over a possible non-issue for someone else? What am I missing here?


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## Nellie (Apr 9, 2012)

*Re: Pro Pesticide Shills Expose Themselves on Scottish Beekeeping Forum*



shinbone said:


> What am I missing here?


Not much. The default position in the UK around the Neonicotinoid "Debate" from the Pro-Ban guys is that if you don't immediately and unquestioningly support the position as a supposed beekeeper then you must be employed by Bayer.

I did send Bayer a mail just to enquire if they'd hired me without my knowledge, but I've not heard back.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Whats going on you ask? A good question indeed and one i have wondered about myself. One cant be too careful. Theories abound.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lI_0-kz4lR0&feature=youtube_gdata_player


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

A man with the right video every time!


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## jonathan (Nov 3, 2009)

LOL Jim. Had not seen that before.

This is what it is really like in Scotland.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GX1DVnNWtGY


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Interesting I always assumed the country was just comprised of men wearing kilts, throwing enormous poles, playing bagpipes and singing Danny boy


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## Nellie (Apr 9, 2012)

Don't forget the Whisky!


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## jonathan (Nov 3, 2009)

> singing Danny boy


That's Ireland, ye eejit!


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## beedeetee (Nov 27, 2004)

My family spent a couple of weeks driving through England/Scotland several years ago. We drove up to our nice hotel and right in the middle of their nice landscaped flower bed was the biggest thistle you have ever seen. The kind that we would call a Bull Thistle. "Are these people just blind" I said to my wife as I started to grab it and yank it out of the ground! She yelled at me that it was their national flower or something. A thistle their national flower?!? Are these people all "eejits"!!

At first I thought that this thread was going to be kind of lame, but it's perking up nicely.


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## Scrapfe (Jul 25, 2008)

jim lyon said:


> ... I always assumed the country was just comprised of men wearing kilts...


Lord help me I am one (a Scotsman that is) so here goes. 
Jim do you know what a Scotsman wears under his kilt?

No?
Well Jim he wears socks under his kilt, that’s what.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Shill? What is a shill?


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## Scrapfe (Jul 25, 2008)

Nellie said:


> Don't forget the Whisky!


This advice is a little outdated. Never walk into a Scotsmen’s' watering hole and shout out, "A hundred Clan Campbells crawled though the heathers pursued by one McDonald."


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I think the OP's conspiracy is getting hijacked.

Just sayin...

Wayne


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

Don't forget... the Scots have great breakfasts!! Well.. if you are into Blood Pudding and Haggis... which I am, by the way. Seems like everybody had got a sign out to rent you a room for the night too..... my favorite trip..


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## Scrapfe (Jul 25, 2008)

*Re: Pro Pesticide Shills Expose Themselves on Scottish Beekeeping Forum*



D Coates said:


> ... Then ... to claim "Pro Pesticide Shills [Expose] Themselves on Scottish Beekeeping Forum...


That bee the danger ye court when ye wear the kilt.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

*Re: Pro Pesticide Shills Expose Themselves on Scottish Beekeeping Forum*

OK, back to the topic.


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## Stromnessbees (Jan 3, 2010)

*.*



Barry said:


> OK, back to the topic.


Thank you, Barry.


To the genuine forum poster: please be aware that what's happening on this thread is done to a plan.

The original posts were threatening to the interests of a certain group of posters. 

Reaction: 

At the moment the strategy is to make this thread boring and uninteresting to any genuine beekeeper who is interested in making honey and keeping his bees healthy. Please notice that these posters are working as a team, boosting each other and driving the thread away from its original intention.

A second strategy is to make the OP look ridiculous, foolish, fanatical, an outsider or - a favourite - calling him a conspiracy theorist. They will also try to associate him with unpopular persons or movements.

A third strategy is to baffle the genuine reader with science: they claim that if you haven't read certain scientific papers from beginning to end you can't take part in the discussion, they make you feel inferior. - Not-so-subtle psychology being used here in order to frustrate you and to scare you away from the real issues.


Please read the responses in this thread again with above explanations in mind.

Once you know the game you will laugh about it every time you see the team in action! 

.


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## jonathan (Nov 3, 2009)

*Re: Pro Pesticide Shills Expose Themselves on Scottish Beekeeping Forum*

Is this the same bunch of posters, working as a team from different countries around the globe including Scotland, who are trying to thwart your belief that the Government is putting an additive in jet fuel to control the population!

http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...threatening-environment-human-health-amp-bees


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

*Re: Pro Pesticide Shills Expose Themselves on Scottish Beekeeping Forum*

Hmmm......


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## Stromnessbees (Jan 3, 2010)

*.*



jonathan said:


> Is this the same bunch of posters, working as a team from different countries around the globe including Scotland, who are trying to thwart your belief that the Government is putting an additive in jet fuel to control the population!
> 
> http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...threatening-environment-human-health-amp-bees



Strategy No. 2 in action.



> A second strategy is to make the OP look ridiculous, foolish, fanatical, an outsider or - a favourite - calling him a conspiracy theorist. They will also try to associate him with unpopular persons or movements.


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## jonathan (Nov 3, 2009)

*Re: Pro Pesticide Shills Expose Themselves on Scottish Beekeeping Forum*

Yes but you started that other thread yourself!


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## millerwb (Oct 31, 2011)

*Re: Pro Pesticide Shills Expose Themselves on Scottish Beekeeping Forum*

Yup, breathing is hazardous to your health. Maybe we should stop that too.

To the OP: what does all this talk have to do with the price of tea in China? Who cares if people don't agree with you? People don't agree with me daily. get over it! Why bring you disagreement from another board to this board?


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

*Re: Pro Pesticide Shills Expose Themselves on Scottish Beekeeping Forum*

Anyone notice where Stromness Scotland is located? Orkney... Islands located at the far Northern tip of Scotland. Makes me wonder what type of GMO plants or Ag in general they have going on up there. Got to be a pretty severe climate up there on the North Sea. Of course I also know that we have some pretty severe climates that produce a heck of a lot of honey.. (ND/SD).


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## D Coates (Jan 6, 2006)

*Re: .*



Stromnessbees said:


> Strategy No. 2 in action.


What if the claim is actually as preposterous and lacking in true scientific merit as it appears? Can that be pointed out or is to do so automatically mean that you are part of the conspiracy? If I claim the moon is made of Blue cheese (or Stilton) and I have supporting documentation (I can find it somewhere on the internet) does that make you part of the vast lactose intolerant conspiracy if you question it and or don't support it, or am I just a few fries short of a Happy Meal?

It's a retorical question as there are times conspiracy theories are exactly that and should be dismissed as such.


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## D Coates (Jan 6, 2006)

*Re: Pro Pesticide Shills Expose Themselves on Scottish Beekeeping Forum*



millerwb said:


> Why bring you disagreement from another board to this board?


Converts, merely trolling for converts on the other side of the pond.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

*Re: Pro Pesticide Shills Expose Themselves on Scottish Beekeeping Forum*



hpm08161947 said:


> Anyone notice where Stromness Scotland is located? Orkney... Islands located at the far Northern tip of Scotland. Makes me wonder what type of GMO plants or Ag in general they have going on up there.


The two sites linked below answer the second part of that question quite nicely.









Photo linked from http://www.orkney.com/agriculture, where the linked page includes this:


> In fact Orkney has the highest density of beef cattle in Europe and is the biggest dairy area north of Stirling. At the other extreme, the small flock of rare breed North Ronaldsay sheep is also famous for its life on the shore and its seaweed diet.​


And from this site, 
http://www.spirit-of-orkney.com/contents1a/2010/04/orkney-arable-farming/#



> The windswept lands of the Orkney Isles lend themselves to limited agricultural practices.
> Apart from the raising of beef cattle, the only arable crops likely to be grown in Orkney are Oats, Barley and Wheat.


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## D Coates (Jan 6, 2006)

*Re: Pro Pesticide Shills Expose Themselves on Scottish Beekeeping Forum*



jonathan said:


> Is this the same bunch of posters, working as a team from different countries around the globe including Scotland, who are trying to thwart your belief that the Government is putting an additive in jet fuel to control the population!
> 
> http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...threatening-environment-human-health-amp-bees


Wholly molly, that was her post too? Chasing two equally valid/relivant conspiracy theories has got to be exhausting. But then again, that's exactly what the government wants you to feel isn't it?...


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## RiodeLobo (Oct 11, 2010)

*Re: Pro Pesticide Shills Expose Themselves on Scottish Beekeeping Forum*


I want the portion of my life back that I wasted reading this.


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## Stromnessbees (Jan 3, 2010)

*.*



jonathan said:


> Is this the same bunch of posters, working as a team from different countries around the globe including Scotland, who are trying to thwart your belief that the Government is putting an additive in jet fuel to control the population!
> 
> http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...threatening-environment-human-health-amp-bees



I am very passionate when it comes to bees as well as human health. 

I am investigating what's affecting our bees and why beekeeping has become so much more difficult around the globe. If that inolves looking into unorthodox theories and thinking outside the box I am not afraid to do that. Chemtrails are part of some secret programme and it's time that we start talking about them. 

This doesn't mean we don't need to uncover the dangerous side effects of modern pesticides and their connections to bee demise.


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## jonathan (Nov 3, 2009)

*Re: .*



> Chemtrails are part of some secret programme and it's time that we start talking about them.


Tell us what you know then.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

*Re: .*

I guess he dont know nothing except how to provide clips from UK tabloids and then cross-post cryptic messages from other bee forums. Then he vanishes into thin air when you ask him to support such nonsense.


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## Stromnessbees (Jan 3, 2010)

*Re: .*

*Apology:

I am very sorry if my posts of Tue May 2nd have caused offence by my inappropriate use of the term “shill”.
I am not a native English speaker and was not aware of the full meaning and implications of the term.
I apologize wholeheartedly for using the term under those circumstances and don’t intend to use it again inappropriately.*


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

*Re: .*

I think people will get over it Stromness, completed my education LOL 

(With a little help from Scrapfe)

What is your native language?


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