# Building (non-standard) plywood bodies



## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

The inside dimension is most important. If your outside dimensions are 16 3/4 by 20 1/2 you should be fine. Like you said, you will need covers and bottom boards custom for these. You would be better off to make just covers and sell them. The "For Sale" here would clear them quick. If the pieces are not 16 1/4 by 20, I guess you have to make hive bodies


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## bigbore (Feb 25, 2008)

Like American Beekeeper said, Inside dimensions are the important ones. If the outside is over, then they are over, but if the inside is over, well: trouble is comming for you eventually. Bees don't worry about how big their house is, as long as there is room inside for everything. But if you do make them "non-traditional", you will have a time getting traditional dimension boxes to work with them....


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## Daddy'sBees (Jul 1, 2010)

Langstroth 8-frame dimensions using "3/4" inch thick boards. Adjust the outside for 1 inch plywood. The insdie IS critical for frame match-ups.

Outside: 19 7/8" long X 13 3/4" wide X 6 5/8" deep
Inside: 18 3/8" long X 12 1/4" wide X 6 5/8" deep

The 13 3/4" board has a 3/8" cut-back from inside top edge
and that is 5/8" cut-down for holding the frame ends.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Just my opinion, but I also use 8 frame mediums and also being cheap I have them built out of all kinds of scraps - with no problems.

Get some 3/4 material to use for the ends though. Eight frame medium equipment has almost enough room for 9 frames in standard configuration - enough that they sometimes build a 1/2 thickness comb on the inside of the box. Losing 1/2 inch total out of the sides might even be a good thing. You will still have room to get the end frames out, and as long as you center them the frames will still line up with the ones above.

They will be kind of heavy though, but not compared to 10 frame boxes full of honey.

Also, build them with a total outside width of 14" - factory made 8 frame boxes run from 13 3/4 to 14" anyway, and that way your boxes will only be 1/4 less than some of the "store bought" equipment, and most everything will still fit fine. For example I have a Sundance II top entrance pollen trap that's 14" and it works fine with my 13 7/8 boxes.


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## brendantm130 (Jan 23, 2010)

1" thick ply? Not very common, where do you get it? But like was said, the inside dimensions are what count. and if you building you own boxes, tops and bottoms are easier.


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## WilliamsHoneyBees (Feb 17, 2010)

Mu suggestion is only use standard equipment. 5 years down the road you may have a boat load of hives. You'll go and try to throw another super on this hive and realize it just won't work. So you have to custom make more stuff for this hive that will cost you in the long run. A lot of beekeepers are going to ALL mediums just to make everything interchangeable. I think you would be causing yourself more headaches in the long run.

-Dan


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

+1 on using standard equipment. 

Like mentioned, eventually you'll regret not going with standard dimensions. I started out making all my own equipment and didn't adhere closely to standard dimensions (inside yes, but not outside). Eventually, I ran out of time and energy to make all the equipment and started buying my stuff. I now regret having this old stuff around as things are not perfectly interchangeable, which leads to some choice words expressed in my out yards when I go out without having the matching equipment. Another point is if you ever want to get out of beekeeping who's going to want to buy nonstandard equipment?


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

Two big issues in my experience:

1. Unless the plywood you use is MDO you *will* have weather issues. A well painted box purchased from the suppliers will last 20+ years if not treated in any other fashion. I still have some in our operation we bought new 30 years ago. You will also get longer life from a box when they are treated with copper. Plywood will rot out on the exposed corners faster than a regular box would. 

2. The money you save now will surely be spent on Aspirin and psychiatric services after you realize the non standard "cheap" route wasn't so cheap in the long run. You will certianly regret it if you add more equipment. If it comes time to sell out, the puzzled look on your wifes face from the minuscule check you get for all the "equipment" will most likely confirm that not many folks don't want to share in your savings at their expense. 

GO STANDARD. GO LONG. GO RIGHT.


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

Make it standard. Cheap is not always the best. NSTFL. 

Side note- Plywood is not always cheaper than standard dimensional 1xs. 

mike


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

It seems like some of the people who are responding to this didn't read the question: "Aside from being non-standard, am I going to run into any horrible issues by using 1" wood instead of 3/4"?"

The short answer is no - aside from being non standard, using 1" wood won't cause horrible issues.

It isn't a question of whether or not one material is cheaper than the other "I have access to lots of free scrap" IT don't get any cheaper than free. Will anyone ever want to buy them? The conventional wisdom is don't buy used equipment anyway - unless it has healthy bees in it in which case you are selling the bees as much as the equipment. I suspect that it is a mistake to base your purchasing decisions on the resale value of used woodenware.

Depending on how you build them they don't even have to be non standard for that matter. Will they last 20 years? Probably not. Will they last 5? Probably. By then most people will either get tired of bee keeping or move into a new phase of it.

There's no disgrace in not being a wood worker, but if you can't build a hive body that uses standard frames and doesn't violate bee space, don't make that into a cautionary tale about someone else building their own stuff. 

Everyone can't afford to spend hundreds of dollars on the woodenware that it takes to start bee keeping, and if slapping together your own equipment out of scrap materials makes it happen, then by all means have at it. *It's about the bees, not the boxes.*


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## AramF (Sep 23, 2010)

I got some higher quality 3/4 inch oak plywood for almost $44 a sheet at HD. If I was really cheap, I could have gone with $18 3/4 board. I can make 6 medium boxes, two bottom boards and 2 migratory covers with one sheet. With a good paint job on the outside and inside edges, these will last probably 10 years or more and who know what i'll be doing in 10 year. Nobody will prevent me from updating paint 3-4 years and make them last even longer. I am not using any specialized joints. Lots of glue and some real long screws cause I have never experience a nail that did not want to come out when I abuse the part.

The biggest issue I had is with getting the box perfectly square in all 3 dimentions, so I made a jig to help with that. My boxes are completely interchangeable with standard equipment.

One thing that surprised me is that after you put 10 PF120 frames into the box, there is about 1 thumb worth of space on the side. I expected some slack but not quite that much. So inside dimentions are important, but you'd be surprised how much extra space is in these boxes.


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## fat/beeman (Aug 23, 2002)

when I started out I did plywood it will get you buy until you can buy better wood,think about recycle pallet's it will get you buy on the supers.
but most of all keep boxes standard that way if you do buy hive body's they will stack up right.
I always thought outside was 19 and7/8 by16 and1/4=10 frame
and 8frame 19 and 7/8 by 13 and 3/4
if I am wrong been make boxes for 50 yrs wrong===lol


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## tommyt (Aug 7, 2010)

buy some mesh tape and resin put it on the corners then paint away 
your Box's will out last you

http://www.bottompaintstore.com/Mar...3CD5D3BB52177F3734B.qscstrfrnt06?productId=26

http://www.fiberglasswarehouse.com/MainPage.php?Nav=Fiberglass Products&Category=Fiberglass Tape


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

If you can build boxes from free plywood to get started, certainly forget buying "standard" equipment. Just keep the inside dimensions and your frames standard size. If you have some store-bought 3/4" wood hives in your yard, you can simply stack the plywood boxes on top and let them hang over a quarter inch all around. Don't try to take the space from the interior so the sides are even. That, I believe, you will come to regret. BUild new covers as needed.

I have a few of the first hive boxes that I made that are less than ideal and a couple bottom boards that failed the test. Someday I'll send them up in a little bonfire and toast the "not perfect" equipment that helped me get started. And since, like me, you are getting started by building boxes from free wood, why should you give even a single thought to its resale value years down the road? If you earn nothing on an investment of nothing for a scrap plywood box, you've broken even and you are way ahead of the guy that paid $10 bucks to Dadant and perhaps can get $5 for it on Craigslist.

I bought a couple hives but found it more to my liking to buy tools and make my own equiipment from scrap. I'm making my own frames too, and there are one or two here that will argue that I'm wasting my time since frames are "so cheap." (All the equipment in my shop has been more than paid for just in the savings from making frames myself for free, in spare time that others might find more enjoyable drinking beer and watching football. I was even told that I should be finding a more profitable use for my spare time. I assume he meant that I should put more hours in at the office and pay after-tax dollars for my frames. There always seems to be someone who knows best how to spend other people's money.) 

Do whatever you need to do to get started now. Don't worry that you will want to change everything over to purchased "standard" equipment some time in the future. Don't feel that you need to wait until you have all the cash in hand that you need to "do it right" in other peoples' eyes. There are too many people discouraged by others that convince them they can't or shouldn't do something that will help get them moving down the road. Get started now.

Wayne


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## AramF (Sep 23, 2010)

I think that as long as you make your special equipment such that it can be used as a standalone hive that fits perfectly with itself (maybe make 3 identical deep boxes), you will have functional equipment. I no longer make anything but tops and bottoms for hives, which I feel are cost effective. For everything else, buying it seems to be a better option cost and time wise.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Hey beekeepers, this is an eight year old thread resurrected from the grave by a would be advertiser.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Hey, I am impressed that member _AramF_ replied to this thread *9 years* after his earlier post. :thumbsup:


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

That is cool and I totally missed it. Also can't do arithmetic while consuming my favorite evening beverage.


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## Jim Braun (Nov 8, 2019)

A beekeeper friend of mine was a concrete guy. He had lots of 3/4 treated form boards that he had stacked in an outbuilding that he gave me. I only used it for tops and bottoms. It worked great except you had to be sure that none of the voids that faced into the concrete had plugs of concrete left in them, it sure dulled my blades before I realized that!

Also the first year when I made some boxes I thought like a woodworker and made them tight so the frames wouldn't rattle around. A couple of years ago I pulled those boxes out of service as the bees like to glue the frames down and I could hardly move the frames in or out of the boxes. This year when I was cleaning out my honey supers I found 2 mediums that the end boards had warped in and that made the middle where the frames rested to tight. So from now on when I cut my long sides I will make them a fat 19 1/8".

When I make my boxes the dimensions are 19 1/8" by 16 1/4" for 10 frame boxes. I dado out a rabbet 3/8" deep x 3/4"wide on the short end sides. If you are using 1" stock you need 3/8" x 1" to attach the long sides to the short sides. Your frame rest will still need to be 3/8" deep x 5/8" wide. You only do dados on the short side boards. If you use other boxes over time you will only be 1/8" off on each side. Some of my boxes aren't perfectly square so there has been some exposed end wood when the sides don't match up. I had one medium box this year out of 20 that I had rot in the bottom of the board. I cut a new replacement and glued it in. You can see it from the ends that it has been repaired but this is not fine wood working.

I see that you are going 8 frame equipment. If you are doing that for a lighter box your 1" boxes may not be very light like pine.

What ever you decide to do have fun and good luck on your beekeeping journey.


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## Jim Braun (Nov 8, 2019)

Well, I guess it's true, no good deed goes unpunished! I feel foolish for responding to this, oh well...


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

It is good subject material. Direct responses are probably not helpful to the OP at this point though.

I think I would have passed on the boards covered in concrete residue. 12" saw blades are not cheap.


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## mbear (May 18, 2017)

I get a lot of free wood from work. I use it to make tops, bottoms and nucs. I certainly wouldn't turn down 1 inch ply. As long as you keep the inside dimensions correct the extra 1/4 width won't matter. As a matter of fact I have bought boxes from two of the major manufacturers and they have different OD. My deeps have smaller OD than my mediums so I have to adjust them a bit when I put my honey supers on.


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## little_john (Aug 4, 2014)

I never thought I'd ever be adding to a nine-year-old thread ... 

Plywood has it's uses, although I'm not convinced it's ideal for bee-boxes, as it's such a dense material - meaning that's it's heavy and has poor insulation value.

One-inch plywood would be much better employed as the floor of a bee-shed, imo - but I'm a great believer in using whatever materials are available - so - having scored such thick plywood (if the OP is still alive, is reading this, AND still has this plywood unused  ), I'd recommend that it be turned into stand-alone one-piece boxes such as Long Hives to avoid the issue of compatibility with standardised equipment.

Good to see such names as David LaFerney - I've read several of his earlier posts with great interest. I particularly like his comment: *"It's about the bees, not the boxes".*
LJ


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

David LaFerney said:


> It seems like some of the people who are responding to this didn't read the question: "Aside from being non-standard, am I going to run into any horrible issues by using 1" wood instead of 3/4"?"
> 
> The short answer is no - aside from being non standard, using 1" wood won't cause horrible issues.
> 
> ...


+1 David. I build a lot of stuff mostly cheap wood, mostly non standard. Most answers did not answer the OP question.

One can use darn near any kind of wood Pallets, Plywood used barn boards ETC.
So here is a tip, get the oops /cheap paint, paint each "batch" the same color, then green goes with green blue with blue etc. paint your tops and bottom the same color.
That is what I do, Only difference is I add 2 gall of oops paint to a 5 gal bucket then add 1 or 2 gall of white to make enough for the year and then 1 winter is 1 design and 1 color. I generally do it by the hive Top+box +Box+top then a few supers. yes I need to keep track a bit but I have bees in 4 or 5 places so each is a color. So going to the Blue yard grab a few Blue supers head out. Later if you go big time and buy they could also be a different color.
If the wood was free back up the truck. 
Also can make a quick and dirty 3 sided shed/lean to. Keep the plywood boxes under a layer of tin.
GG

P.S. OOPs did not see the age, well advice still stands, always someone running into free wood.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Gray Goose said:


> did not realize the age


We can get away with that here. Not something you want to be saying to the police! 

Your advice is still good.


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## Bdfarmer555 (Oct 7, 2015)

I know it's an old thread, but I want to gripe somewhere. Lol. I have a couple boxes from betterbee from when I first started. They're the 7/8 wood they're so proud of. Made 100 splits the last few days, and I swear every single one of those boxes ended up being a split this year. That thicker wood is a real pain due to not fitting in pallet clips. So now I have several splits with an extra entrance along the back and the side against the neighboring hive...

1" ply would be horrible if one ever wants to grow enough to palletize.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

I made some boxes from 1" unplaned pine and some of my telescope lids would not fit them. Side ways outside dimensions can be reduced to standard 16.25 inches but you have to keep frames clean of propolis or 10 frames gets on the tight side. Guess that is why some people drop to 9 frames. You cannot mess with inside dimensions on the length of the box without messing up bee space. Any new tops I make now are looser fitting.

If you are palleting or gang wrapping multiple colonies for winter, it _does_ make things easier to have standard sizes.


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