# 2011 packages



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

The Honey Householder said:


> 2011~ it will be a make it or brake it year in the business. Biggest price hike ever for packages and honey!!!!!:ws


Maybe so for packages, but honey went from .15 to .45 one year. That's probably the historically biggest jump in honey prices.


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## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

So what is that package price? Not what you are reselling for but the price given to you per package for your large order.


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

Or what to expect to pay for small orders of 20 to 25 packages?

Wayne


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## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

$65.00-$70.00 for 2 lb

$75.00-$85.00 for 3 lb


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## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

I only load my haul with 800 packages, to much money on the line to load anymore onto the load. Had another load but they schedule it for 4-30-11 to late for 2# packages. Beeslave I PMed you price. What kind of price can you get still looking for load to take care of customers. Need first week in April.


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## mythomane (Feb 18, 2009)

Someone want to post the prices given from all the major producers? Wilbanks, etc.?


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## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

The package producers I know(personally) have been sold out since last spring for 2011. I've got 3 lb'ers for $75.00 ea. No shipping.


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## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

If you haven't put a deposit down yet, your probly not going to get them. I had an extra 100 on my load and they are gone.

I only sell in lots of 50 and beeslaves price is low.


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## BiG T (Oct 25, 2010)

I talked to Wilbanks they said to call back in January werent taking orders yet.


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## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

Wilbanks is pick loads only anymore I think. Unless you can get on one of there truck load orders.


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## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

mythomane said:


> Someone want to post prices from major producers?


http://www.google.com/search?q=2011...ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7GGLL_en


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## mythomane (Feb 18, 2009)

Most package producers I know have plenty of bees available. Many haven't even started taking orders yet, let alone being sold out.


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## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

Bee haulers have a standing orders with there supplier. Most years I'm the first load out of Wilbanks.:thumbsup:


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## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

.........and those are the ones that are waiting to set there prices too.


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## mythomane (Feb 18, 2009)

We (well, most of us) know how to use Google. Some producers do not have web sites. Would like to see a full run-down of prices from producers -- this year vs. last year in one place. Guess I am alone in this.


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## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

Two year ago suppliers wouldn't even put prices out to wholesalers until Jan. I wish there was a progressive bee supplier price list.


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## Omie (Nov 10, 2009)

The Honey Householder said:


> If you thought it was hard getting good packages last year, just you wait for 2011...


I'm curious- why do you think demand for packages is so much higher now than say 2 years ago?


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## mythomane (Feb 18, 2009)

No Australian? The fact that every housewife in America wants bees in her backyard, because she saw it on TV?


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## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

Not just housewife but teenagers, alot of layed off worker, you name it.

I've been hauling for over 16 years.

The first 2# packages I bought years ago was only $13.95 and queens $5.55. Ofcoarse honey price was only $.38 a lb. OK I've been in the business a long time, and those prices was premite.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Eventually it will get attractive to winter your bees.


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## Omie (Nov 10, 2009)

mythomane said:


> No Australian? The fact that every housewife in America wants bees in her backyard, because she saw it on TV?


Ok yes, I see the Australian thing affecting things this Spring for sure, concerning packages.

Every housewife in America?- hmmm Most all of my female friends ('housewives' or otherwise) think it's great that I have bees _but they wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole_ and would never seriously want a hive in their yard. Oh, and some of them don't watch or even own a tv. 
I did have a male neighbor down the road get really enthused through seeing and helping me with my hive inspections though, and he and I are ordering our nucs together for next year. He's studying like mad now and has his first hive ready for a nuc next Spring. Our goal is to eventually have enough hives to keep going without ordering any from elsewhere. I know a couple other trusted local beeks that we can share resources with too. 
When I go to my local bee club, there are always seemingly equal numbers of new men and women bk's. Same thing when I attended some bee classes near here. And it seems to be people of all ages too. This is good! 

If the package industry bottoms out for any reason, small scale bk's are just going to have to get more skilled at multiplying/splitting their own overwintered bees and raising/selling queens and nucs locally, catching swarms, sharing resources more within their area, I suppose. Maybe we'll learn from how things were done long ago. I was just reading my 1920's edition of ABCs-XYZs last night. (Fascinating chapter on honey adulteration, by the way!)

Maybe it's a good time to be in the swarm catching business...?


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## ChristopherA (Jul 20, 2010)

The price quoted to me from producer in GA 86 for 3lb package. Thats at cost for attending one of thier classes.


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## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

Need more package producer. Most large producer are 3-5 generation beekeeper. If something happien that the kids don't take over the family business we are all screwed. :ws


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

sqkcrk said:


> Maybe so for packages, but honey went from .15 to .45 one year. That's probably the historically biggest jump in honey prices.


Didn't it go from .75 to 1.50 when the Chinese got caught with chloramphenocol in their honey?


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

The Honey Householder said:


> If something happien that the kids don't take over the family business we are all screwed.


Not necessarily. You'll just have to learn to winter bees.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Now there's an idea!


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## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

I do have some new things I'm going to try this year, or maybe I should just buy some land in GA. More money in bees then honey.:scratch:


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## Panhandle Scott (Jul 11, 2009)

The Honey Householder said:


> More money in bees then honey.:scratch:


Cause without the bees you ain't gettin honey. Kinda like how they can charge so much for a battery or tires, without one or the other the vehicle isn't going far. I guess the package producers are starting to realize that without them most folks are done so they can command any amount they want whether it is realistic or not. Speculation is the biggest killer of commerce and the biggest cause of overinflated value of a product.

I would seriously start thinking about overwintering your stongest hives if package prices become a issue.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Yes well i'd be having a serious think if i had to pay $65.00 to get my hives started each year.

In my country there are no spring packages available, we winter ALL our bees, standard procedure.

If you are going to try it, it's about varroa control.


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## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

If I could only get winter hive to produce what packages produce I would do it in a heart beat. Most wintered hive produce 0-35 lbs and packages produce 125 lb avg. That and packages are so much easier to work in the winter.
This maybe an out of control hobbie, but I still have to feed the kids.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

I hear that a lot on this forum. 

But overwintered bees CAN produce, it's about management, and disease control.

And i DO know, before i retired i was one of the people who sold you guys the packages.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Just to add to that last post, killing everything in the winter, and installing packages in spring, is an easy, low skill required way to "keep" bees. You just stick the package in, when ready add boxes for honey, that's about it.

No swarm control, requeening, disease management, nothing.

But as the cost of packages continues to rise, it might start to pay to re-learn some of these "old" skills.


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## Panhandle Scott (Jul 11, 2009)

The Honey Householder said:


> If I could only get winter hive to produce what packages produce I would do it in a heart beat. Most wintered hive produce 0-35 lbs and packages produce 125 lb avg. That and packages are so much easier to work in the winter.
> This maybe an out of control hobbie, but I still have to feed the kids.


HH...can't argue that fact but it seems if you overwintered some of your strongest hives and intoduced genetics for early buildup you might save a few bucks. But hey you are successful in your business model so I nor probably anyone else can say you are doing something wrong.

Like alot of things, what works for me might not work for you and vice versa. It works for you and has worked for you but what somebody suggested you got to think outside the box once in awhile. 

I will say this with all honesty and sincerity....one day I would like to be as succesful as you or as some of the other commercial beeks on here. Being in my mid 40's I am getting to the point that I don't want to make money for others but want to be my own boss. The fear is should I do it, can I do it, will it work, etc. I am starting slowly but it seems I now have dream and goal but is it to late in life. At least with you all on here I am getting some valuable knowledge. Another topic for another day.


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## MichaBees (Sep 26, 2010)

This is intensive !
Lots of sincere and honest opinions here.


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## 123456789 (May 24, 2009)

Oldtimer said:


> Just to add to that last post, killing everything in the winter, and installing packages in spring, is an easy, low skill required way to "keep" bees.


I would say running a profitable honey business requires skills that most beekeepers can only dream of.


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## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

Panhandle Scott,
Hey this old dog is alway learning. The way I do things most say I'm working outside the box, or was it out of my mine. Well like most in the business as long as I have been god rest their soul. They find a way to make it one way or the other, if it me retailing there products or selling there services. You do what you have to do to make a living.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

I think there you may have a bit of a misconception about what happens up here. Paul has been successful running packages on a commercial scale and for that I applaud and even perhaps envy him. His operation, though, is not typical of commercial operations in the US. 
Some northern beekeepers still overwinter and because they are still in business I assume they also are having success and have learned what works for them as many of those hives even make the trip to California to the amonds. The bulk of commercial hives, though, are managed year round in migratory operations by, for the most part, good beekeepers that work hard stay informed and do their utmost to produce good strong hives. The fact that we in the US struggle to come up with nearly 1 1/2 million strong hives in the late winter and have imported a few thousand is hardly a statement that folks in one area of the world (with an entirely different set of beekeeping variables) are superior beekeepers.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

jim lyon said:


> I think there you may have a bit of a misconception about what happens up here.


You talking to me?



jim lyon said:


> ...
> Some northern beekeepers still overwinter...


OK I didn't know all that, well I did actually kinda.

The impression gained from a read of this forum is that many take it forgranted their bees will die in the winter & you buy packages in the spring.

Maybe they the folks who talk the most, maybe they the majority, don't know.

Oh, did I say i was a superior beekeeper? Just contributing ideas, same as you.


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## Bob Nelson (Feb 10, 2005)

Oldtimer said:


> before i retired i was one of the people who sold you guys the packages.


I don't think you intended for it to sound like that but this little quip could be construed as such. And a valuable service it was at the time they were needed, though for some the jury is still out.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Your'e right it could be seen that way.

Having said that, part of my livelihood was understanding what you guys do, and what you want. I might be on the other side of the earth, but i'm not, as someone told me recently, on another planet.

Now i don't have a financial interest in the package industry, I do sometimes wonder if it's a good thing at all.

I have been mocked in other threads for suggesting people try to winter their bees, and that it can be done with almost 100% success. And these comments will come from people who just can't see any other way than packages. So the little "quip", was to let people know that i've been in the industry, i do in fact know a bit about packages.


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## Bob Nelson (Feb 10, 2005)

We are getting off topic some. Jim is correct about restocking with packages being the exception rather than rule. 

Now in Canada and premite (and quarantine since mid 80's) it was standard practice for a variety of reasons. It depends on your business plan. You have to be somewhat of a beekeeper to produce honey this way. Largely the spring package installers and fall blowers are in fact principally honey producers without much reliance on otherwise year around bee colony management. They are working in the off season preparing equipment for the upcoming season with concerns about colony survival replaced by package supply and cost.

After the bumper crops of the soil bank years and having to continue buying package bees many Midwestern beekeepers turned to East Texas. This continues on a large scale today and in many cases California almond pollination is included in the equation. It costs money to go down the road but much can be saved over buying packages or nucs by going it on your own with your own bees for seed stock.


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## Bob Nelson (Feb 10, 2005)

The complexion of wintering bees in the Midwest (and country for that matter) with even the best and most diligent management practices changed remarkably starting about 30 years ago.

Prior to tracheal mites in the mid 1980's bees could be wintered with 2-5% loss rates. 10% was a travesty requiring concentrated efforts to regain counts. Since that time loss rates have been anywhere from 25-80% with things levelled off in recent years around 30%. Some have managed only 10-15% losses but they are the exception. Mite control measures play a big part but even being on top of that game our losses across the board far exceed the worst case scenerio of yesteryear.


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## mlewis48 (Nov 24, 2007)

It is not just packages that are being affected, the price of nucs are going up too. I ordered nucs from a man that I did last year and my thinking was if I got in early enough I would get the same price as last year, Wrong! They have gone up $10 per nuc. From what I am reading here, looks like the number of packages that I will be getting will go down as well. It is getting harder to get to the level that you guys are at. Splits will have to get me there, I guess.


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## swarm_trapper (Jun 19, 2003)

ron just how much did your package price increase?


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## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

As stated earlier, the bees are there but the early queens are not for package production. I have queens ordered from a large queen producer. I recently got notice that my order is "on the books". From that queen producer I was told that no new customers will be taken and that all queens are spoken for until June of 2011.

A $75.00 3 lb package is still profitable to the skilled beekeeper(honey producer) whose shakes his bees out each fall. It takes a lot of off season work and those "skilled beekeepers" can eliminate all treatments in the hive( mite and AFB).


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

The Honey Householder said:


> Need more package producer. Most large producer are 3-5 generation beekeeper. If something happien that the kids don't take over the family business we are all screwed.


There are, as I’m sure you know, several in this or similar situations.


The Honey Householder said:


> I do have some new things I'm going to try this year, or maybe I should just buy some land in GA.


With the arrival of AHB in South GA……I’m thinkin’ that I’d look elsewhere. 
For these reasons and a multitude of others, the package bee business is under considerable stress and I can’t imagine that the current rise in price won’t be repeated in seasons to come.


The Honey Householder said:


> More money in bees then honey.


There’s opportunity here for some forward thinking, business minded beekeepers.


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## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

Dan are you offering a job. I only have 30+ years under my belt but alway looking to learn different parts of the business.:thumbsup:

AHB???


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

The Honey Householder said:


> Dan are you offering a job. I only have 30+ years under my belt but alway looking to learn different parts of the business.


For a person who can think 'outside of the box' and revolutionize the package bee business, I'm thinkin' that it's going to take someone younger and less 'set in their ways' than either you or I. 


The Honey Householder said:


> AHB???


Africanized Honey Bees


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## ChristopherA (Jul 20, 2010)

Well I plan on starting a package and nuc business in VA. Plan on raising 3 strains of bees. Its not going to happen in the next two-three years, however my 3rd year I plan on starting to sell packages and nucs. Hopefully I can overwinter the bees with minimal loss. I can only try. My goal isnt to make money, not really interested in the honey, bulk bees as I like to call it.

I plan on raising carnies, russians and minn.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

OK well you'll need to focus on disease especially mite control in fall to get good strong colonies in spring.

The carniolans won't give you early packages but you can certainly sell carniolan queens with a package made of, say italians.



ChristopherA said:


> My goal isnt to make money


Bad idea. It's all about money. In your planning, plan first to make money. Then everything else you want to achieve, will follow.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

ChristopherA said:


> My goal isnt to make money, not really interested in the honey


What is your goal?


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## ChristopherA (Jul 20, 2010)

My goal is to have a cost effective alternative to what we have now. To breed bees with great development and resistances to this area. I want to provide something we do not have in Va, available locally raised bees at a low cost so more people can get involved in the hobby or business.

Making money is secondary to what my goal is.

<snip by mod>


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Christopher most of the people in this business are not exactly mega rich.

It's a competitive business, ruled by supply and demand. If prices go up, more beekeepers decide to do some packages as a bi-product, or winter their bees, and the demand is met, more or less. Price will find it's own level that it has to be at. Your idea is noble but you will find you will have to charge the same as everybody else.

You might be able to get an edge in quality and service. But if you are not charging enough it's hard to even do that.

You could also develop a niche market with people who have strong ideas about buying local. But that again can be problematic, some of them are people who want to buy one queen and spend an hour talking to you about it.


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## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

Raising my family is my JOB and right now beekeeping is just the means to get the job done.:thumbsup: Ok beekeeping is in my blood too!


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Christopher, many of us are not independently wealthy or have loads of leisure time. Money and time are necessary to build a dream as you've described. So, when we invest a sizeable amount of our money and time we hope for some return. If for no other reason than to finance our business’ growth we must ‘make money’. You are fortunate to have the means to build your dream without that overhead.
Good luck.


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## Bud Dingler (Feb 8, 2008)

The Honey Householder said:


> If I could only get winter hive to produce what packages produce I would do it in a heart beat. Most wintered hive produce 0-35 lbs and packages produce 125 lb avg. That and packages are so much easier to work in the winter.
> This maybe an out of control hobbie, but I still have to feed the kids.


I'm astounded by this remark. Wintered over hives in Wisco/Mn always outfperform package bees. I can get all the 2# package bees I want wholesale for $48 each (2010 price) and sure they might make some honey but the wintered over boomers that comprise the basis of my operation out produce the packages by about 40-50% more honey production. 

Most of my wintered over hives need to be split also so I can either sell nucs or make increases, but instead I often make nucs and raise queens. If I make the nucs early and strong enough they can go on to make a super or two of honey also. I run 4 frame nucs that sit side by side and with an excluder can take standard 10 frame equipment and top feeders. 

The key to wintering over is like what Mike Palmer speaks of, good genetics, prompt mite treatment before early Sept and feeding them up to weight. Its not really that hard folks but the timing is crucial. You can't salvage mite infested hives at the end of Sept with a hail Mary mite treatment. If you have mite testing data and are running VSH or Russian etc you can skip the treatments but you NEED the mite testing data to back it up. Testing for mite is almost as much work as treating also.


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## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

Bud D. 
I set all my packages the last week of March. Then by the first of May start spliting and shaking packages. Main flow don't kick in until mid. June. 6 year avg. 125 lbs. This years crop helped the year befores Avg. at 197 lb. Sold fall bees to recoup 1/3 of my package money.

Kinda got running package bees for honey production down I think. Like any good business you do what works and always improving on it. Not saying I haven't try some of the thing others talk about on here. Didn't always beekeep this way.

If I could get another load around the first of April on 2# packages for $48 I have customers that would love that. Can you PM me the supplier.:thumbsup:


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Bud Dingler said:


> I'm astounded by this remark. Wintered over hives in Wisco/Mn always outfperform package bees.


No great mystery. It's almost always when bees are not sent into the winter healthy, come through in spring with varroa issues, and perform badly against a package, which will mostly be from a treated hive.

BTW if my overwintered hives produce less than 200 lbs, I'm wondering what went wrong. But then, they have proper IPM for mites.


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## PDG honey (Jul 31, 2010)

I hate that the prices are going up as much as the next guy. I can't afford to expand my yards much as i would like, but i do understand why the the prices are going up. With the long distance pollinaters with there ccd, and the warmer climate package producers losing hives to beetles and other pest. I plan on building as much deep wax as possible this spring to make up for the increase in packages. Perfer splits better anyways. Just my opinion.


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## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

Bud Dingler, Still waiting on where your buying loads of 2# packages for $48, or did you suppliers price go up too.:waiting:


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## ChristopherA (Jul 20, 2010)

PDG honey said:


> I plan on building as much deep wax as possible this spring......


Amen to that. That is what I have done this year for next year. Do splits as much as possible and buy quality queens for diversity. The smartest way to go to save monies.


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## mythomane (Feb 18, 2009)

65$ for a 3 lb package seems pretty cheap to me, especially with the shipping rates he is quoting. I paid more than this last year.

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=248641


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