# NewBee questions about TBH in Nova Scotia Canada



## NSBee (Dec 20, 2014)

ok so i seem to have gotten the bug for beekeeping .
I plan to try it this spring using a TBH .
I have some questions . 
1st I am looking for a bee that is non aggressive that would be my primary requirement in a breed of bee . 
I am not going to be doing this for profit , and while i like honey i don't eat much of it so honey production is not a big deal . if i come away with a few jars for myself and a few to give away I am happy . 

I also plan to over winter the bees so need a breed that can Handel the NS climate which can be erratic at best , some winters are very easy ( Like this winter ) others are **** cold with a ton of snow like last winter . 
so non aggressive and winter hardy are what i would be looking for in a bee breed 

2nd how much maintenance / checking do top par hives require . I live in an apartment , so my hive will be located either at my cottage or on a piece of family land about 20 min away . either way not in my back yard so i want to know how often to I need to drive up and check on them . i figure once i first get them probably every day or 2 but once they are established would once every week do ?

does anyone know the bee diseases that are prevalent in NS ? What do I need to be on the look out for . 
I would prefer not to have to treat the bees but am not opposed to it . I would rather treat a my hive and prevent the spread of anything to someone elses colony . 
on this note from what i have read TBH are healthier for the bees in general , and there are 2 modifications that help with mites . one being the screen mesh on the bottom with an oil tray under it ( I assume the oil is vegetable oil or olive oil ) and another modification I came across was to put a ring of copper at the entrance of the hive which would help with the varoa mite or SHB issue ( I can't remember which it was suppose to help with ) . can anyone confirm that these are good mods . 

when it comes to over wintering a TBH my thought would be to screw on some 2 inch foam insulation to the sides top and bottom , making sure to leave the exit hole open for them and put a bunch of sugar cakes in the hive as a back up food supply . How often should they be checked in the winter , and what temperatures ( Celsius ) ? 

as to location the hive , I live in the Annapolis Valley which is a fruit growing area , lots of apple trees and vineyards around so there should be lots of pollen for them . The cottage area though is in the woods on a lake so I don't know that that would be a good spot for them . 

what else am i not thinking of that I should be on the look out for .


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

I am not able to answer all of your questions as I do not live in the colder climates, but as far as maintenance, you will be checking your hive about every 7 days as they get established so keep any wonky comb going in the right direction. after that, depending on the season every 2 weeks or monthly. Fair warning, though, the bees are addictive and you might have a hard time limiting yourself to only checking them at those times. I'd highly recommend a viewing window so you won't be disturbing them each time you take a peak. (you can't truly "manage" the colony by only window inspections, but they are lots of fun to see what is happening and how much comb is being built.).

It's also more helpful if you can do 2 hives at once as you can borrow from one to help out another if it needs it. However, I only had one my first year and it was a nice way to ease into keeping 50,000 stinging insects. I'm up to 5 hives now. All of mine have screened bottom boards that I keep the IPM board in year round. The first year I did the oil on the IPM board, but I have found diatomaceous earth to be more effective against the small hive beetle. You do have to be sure the bees can't get into the DE, as it will kill them as well.

I get my bee kits from Beeline Woodenware for $150. You can probably build one for less than that, but it's got all the parts with the correct spacing, etc for when you are first starting out. I retrofit them with a window. I've never heard about the copper ring at the entrance, I'd like to hear more about that if you have a source for it. Varroa mites are a problem here in VA. I give mine a brood break in June by pulling the queen to a nuc and let the strong hives make a new queen. It helps increase the number of hives too. 

The insulation may be a good idea in your area. I only wrap mine if it's going to consistently stay in the 30's for a number of days, but a good wind break would probably be just as good.


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## juniorbeeman (Dec 2, 2014)

Hi NSBee. To answer your questions in order:

1. A non aggressive bee will most likely put you in the Italian / Carniolan camp. The attitudes of these bees are just a generality and every once in a while you will find very defensive Italians or ridiculously docile Russians etc. But generally, you will be most safe with Italian and Carniolan bees for their disposition. If possible, why not locate a bee breeder that has both and try them both out?

2. As far as over wintering goes, in Canada we do get cold winters, and also extreme changes in temperature. The best defense to this is a large cluster going in to winter of young bees. Type of hive construction, type of insulation, type of bees - all these factors are secondary to a large healthy colony of young bees ready to cluster with adequate honey / sugar stores. The issue you might find is that with the TBH, during winter cluster, the bees want to go upwards. However, the way the TBH is designed, honey stores will most likely be at one end of the hive, or split on both ends with a few open frames of comb in the middle. Because the TBH is really a tropical hive, you might find it easier and more successful to use a Langstroth type hive as you can leave the bees an extra honey super on top of their brood box when going in to winter. Either this, or try your hand at designing a TBH super where you can put extra honey or sugar for feed somehow above them during the fall.

3. Maintenance - when you install your bees, if you are using a TBH you will most likely have to get a package. The package will arrive with 1-2lbs of bees and a mated queen ready to lay eggs. You will be starting at square one, almost like catching a swarm, and so you will be best to feed sugar syrup while the bees draw down your top bars and create comb, and depending on the time of year and what is available as far as flowers for pollen, you may want to also feed a small amount of protein (as they do not have any stored pollen to produce brood). Because you will be feeding (you will have to look in to TBH feeders, I am not familiar with TBH feeding methods) you will most likely want to visit your hive every few days, perhaps every 3-4 days for the first two weeks as they create the initial nucleus colony. After that, when there are adequate nectar flows and pollen coming in, you will only have to check your colony every few weeks until the honey flow.

Conversely, if you decide to go with a Langstroth model of hive, you will most likely be able to source a nucleus colony from a bee breeder in your neighbourhood. This is superior in my opinion to a package as it comes with already drawn comb, and (depending on the breeder and his/her nuc types) 3-4 frames of brood in all stages of development, along with a frame of honey. This is everything the bees need and all you must do is pick up the frames and put them in your box. Of course you have the option to feed however you desire, but the necessity of feeding is not a must depending on the time of year.

I also know personally someone who really wanted a TBH and had already one constructed. They purchased a nuc, and used a reciprocating saw to cut the rectangular Langstroth frames to the shape of the TBH. They lost a small amount of honey/pollen/brood as some of the corners were cut, but a large portion of the brood was salvaged and the bees flourished. This is also another possibility. 

You could also find a bee breeder who sells TBH Nucs. This I think is the least likely scenario.

4. As far as diseases go, there are the standard diseases that you can possibly encounter within Canada. Most common problems (not necessarily diseases per se) are going to be:

- your queen reverting to a drone layer - this just means that her nuptial flight/s did not go as well as possible and she ran out of sperm. Or her development was not adequate and she was not able to hold sperm properly. If this happens, you will notice that every bee in the brood chamber is hatching as a drone. The brood pattern will most likely be spotty and this is cause for concern. Contact your local breeder and purchase a new queen, kill the existing queen, and requeen.

- your hive goes queenless - especially in the initial installment of the package, it is possible for your queen to have issues through the transport. If she is injured or cannot lay eggs, your hive will deteriorate rapidly. This is something you will notice within the first week. If you do not see a queen or eggs within the first 10 days, contact your package distributor or bee breeder and get another queen ASAP.

- varroa mite - varroa mites are parasitic mites that live off the hemolymph of the bees. Nova Scotia is not heavily inundated with as much Varroa as the rest of Canada as I understand it. However, expect these mites to be a problem. If you are receiving a package, check to see how the bees were treated against varroa before you receive them. If a nuc, the same applies. You will have to treat with some form of insecticide or organic acid (formic acid and oxalic acid are two popular options) in the fall if your bees came treated in the spring. You should also monitor your mite levels periodically during the season. The way to do this is all somewhere presumably on beesource.

- AFB - while not common, it is possible for your hive to develop AFB. This is characteristic of gooey ropey foul smelling brood cells and there are a whole heap of information online available on how to detect it. Keep your hive strong and avoid robbing from neighbours. If you do contract this disease, wait until night when all the bees are at home, plug the entrance(s) and set the hive ablaze. This is not a joke... AFB is a sad one. But hopefully not something you will have to deal with.

While there are a host of other diseases and problems that might occur, these ones seem to be the ones run in to most often. If you are fortunate enough to get a healthy laying queen, you are on the road to success. If you treat for varroa mites, you are that much better off. If you monitor your hive periodically to see if they have honey stores (and feed when they are light) you will have dealt with almost all the issues you are likely to encounter.

If you are interested in more diseases, you can read about nosema apis / nosema cerenae, tracheal mites, EFB, laying workers, the list goes on... but in reality, with one or two hives, you are most likely to simply have to deal with Varroa, and beekeeping error. Also, SHB is not going to be an issue in NS. It really isnt much of an issue (yet?) in Canada.

5. When it comes to wintering, a wind break is helpful to reduce the large fluctuation of temperature that wind can bring. If you wish to wrap your hives or add foam, make sure you are not creating any place where moisture can build up. Improperly wrapped hives are worse than unwrapped ones. Also, when constructing your TBH, make sure that the top bars have some space between the bars, so that the winter cluster can move over top of the bars as well as under. This helps the cluster as a whole move around and access food. 

6. Location - Bees are pretty happy anywhere really. Everyone has a preference. Try to chose some place where they will not be a bother to people walking by. Pick a place with a water source that also wont be a bother (a creek is better than your neighbours swimming pool) and if you place your hives in a location with lots of summer flowers like clover or alfalfa or spring flowers like willow, this is always helpful in producing honey and reducing feeding requirements. Some place not in direct wind. Some place that you can connect an electric fence (to avoid bears... and other animals and vandalism).

Anyways, this is just my opinion. There really isn't a right or wrong way. You will learn most from experience. But it sometimes helps to think things through before you start out to avoid some pitfalls that might set you back and tramp on your motivation. Keeping bees is exciting! Don't get too stressed out. Remember that they are wild animals and pretty much know what to do on their own. There are a few key things like making sure you've got a healthy queen and they have food and water, but other than that, they pretty much do the rest.


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## Colino (May 28, 2013)

juniorbeeman said:


> Hi NSBee. To answer your questions in order:
> 
> 1. A non aggressive bee will most likely put you in the Italian / Carniolan camp. The attitudes of these bees are just a generality and every once in a while you will find very defensive Italians or ridiculously docile Russians etc. But generally, you will be most safe with Italian and Carniolan bees for their disposition. If possible, why not locate a bee breeder that has both and try them both out?
> 
> 2. As far as over wintering goes, in Canada we do get cold winters, and also extreme changes in temperature. The best defense to this is a large cluster going in to winter of young bees. Type of hive construction, type of insulation, type of bees - all these factors are secondary to a large healthy colony of young bees ready to cluster with adequate honey / sugar stores. The issue you might find is that with the TBH, during winter cluster, the bees want to go upwards. However, the way the TBH is designed, honey stores will most likely be at one end of the hive, or split on both ends with a few open frames of comb in the middle. Because the TBH is really a tropical hive, you might find it easier and more successful to use a Langstroth type hive as you can leave the bees an extra honey super on top of their brood box when going in to winter. Either this, or try your hand at designing a TBH super where you can put extra honey or sugar for feed somehow above them during the fall.....


Excellent post, and I really like you're advice about maybe considering Langstroths for beginning beekeeping in Canada.
Colino


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

posts 3 and 4 are excellent. NS is pretty far north for a top bar hive it is possible but, it is not for a beginner. my climate is something like yours, I am north of lake Ontario. start with a couple of langsworth hives, monitor and manage mites. in a few years you may wish to try some other stuff. hint: for now do it sort of like the commercial and part timers do it. experiment with the new fashion stuff in a few years if you want to.


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## NSBee (Dec 20, 2014)

HI
Thanks for all the info it is helpful. I appreciate what people are saying about the lang hives however I have I am quite set on the TBH . 
Part of that is price , I priced it out and I am not prepared to drop the better part of $500 into this venture and that is for only 1 hive . Eventually I would like to get up to 4 or 5 hives and if I go the Lang method I am well over $2k very quickly . The other part is I have the wood working skills and equipment to pop out TBHs in short order . 
My plan has been taking shape over the last couple days . I talked to a bee supplier in my area , and to a fellow about an hour away who says he does TBHs and they over winter quite well . 

So here is the plan so far :
1- buy a Langthrop nuke from a local supplier , I need to get my order in with him soon , early in the new year to be assured of getting a nuke for the spring . 
This will be the first hive . no suppliers sell TBH nukes they are all Lang nukes $150 to $170 . I looked into buying packages bees but no one around here sells them , and even if they did I am told packaged bees would run me over $200 . I confirmed this around several CDN suppliers and packaged bees are $200+shipping+HST , this doesn't not seem to make any sense but it does seem to be the truth. in any event that leads me back to nukes . $150 to $170 for a Lang nuke with a queen and 5 frames from local bees. 

2 - Build a hive . The problem is the Lang Nuke frames won't fit into a kenyan style ,slope sided, TBH , enter the Tanzanian style TBH . From the research i was able to do , on the differences between KTBH and TTBH it seems to be a matter of personal preference . Some say the TTBH will produce more brace combing but others say they are about the same . Either way the big advantage for me of the TTBH is that i can build it to take Lang frames and my nuke will fit into it nicely . I even found a plan for a TTBH on a local website https://bellouccello.wordpress.com/category/plans-for-langpohl-top-bar-hive/ it is a very elaborate plan, it is basicly the Taj-Mahal of TTBHs but it can be simplified . The site also has some tips on overwintering bees in my climate . These folks are about an hour west of me there is also the site run by a guy about an hour east of me http://novascotiabees.com/top-bar-hives/ he also has great plans on his site for a KTBH . Both these sites are worth taking the time to view they have some very good info on them for anyone looking at TBHs and are very helpful. 

OK so the plan is set this winter i order my bees and build a TTBH . The hive will be built so that it will accept Lang frames . other features i want to build into it are a viewing window and some integrated pest management bottom boards . the TTBH plan above has them in the plan but they look a bit over complicated I figure I can use the design form this site : http://rustysbees.com/ipm.html and adapt it to my have with little difficulty . 

**I do have a question on which medium would be better as a pest control . mineral oil or Disputatious earth , apparently there are sticky sheets like fly paper you can buy as well . does anyone have any experience or opinions to offer on these or other options ?

** Another question that I have but can't seem to find an answer to is whether Disputatious earth would help to keep humidity and moisture down in the hive . It is silica based ( which is used for absorbing moisture in other applications ) so it should wick moisture out of the air which should help with overwintering . This sounds reasonable to me but i can find no research to back this up , does anyone know if this is true ? 

I also came across a tip about using straw bales as a wind break in winter , which should help with overwintering the hive. I have had a couple people volunteer locations where I can put hives if I wish so I should be able to find a nice cozy spot for them reasonably close to where I live .

Another part of the plan which can be done if time permits is to build some swarm traps and place them around , this is no guarantee of success .However if I manage to catch one I can build another TTBH in a few hours and at little to no cost . I don't anticipate much success with this my 1st year but swarm traps are simple to build and cost little to nothing so why not try . 

Year 2 would have me repeat this plan , order a nuke and build another hive . With luck the 1st hive will have made it through the winter and i would have 2 hives in year 2 . I may even be able to split one and come up with 3 hives . 

I am sure I am missing a ton of stuff so feel free to chime in with suggestions . 

one other question I do have is how high off the ground do people tend to make their TBHs ? I have seen some just sitting on cement blocks others are table height . Is there any method to this or is it just personal preference ?.


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

NSBEE,
Sounds like you are headed toward a Horizontal Lang hive, if I understand your latest post. With the Lang nuc, did you plan remove the frames so that it is only the top bars? or allow the bees to transition over to just a top bar as they draw more comb? One of the guys in my bee club has built a jig that will accept medium frames turned 90 degrees to get the bees from a Lang nuc into a KTBH. Like you said, a lot is a matter of personal preference.

I like my hive height to be comfortable to where I don't have to bend down too much to look in the window. But if you do decide to go with a Horizontal Lang, I bet you will find yourself supering it for more honey production. That can be somewhat of the trade off between Langs and TBH. My TBH's grow bees like crazy, so you may find that you don't need the second nuc the following spring. You will be able to split your own 1st hive and make a couple more, if it's really strong. That's what I did this year, but I didn't harvest any honey, so that's the trade off. You also need to decide if you are trying to go foundationless (TBH) or foundation sheets (long Lang). It's easy enough to knock together a bee hive, it can be quite another to decide to change your hive type once you start down a path (not to say you can't do lots of different hives, it just makes it easier when you have just one type that you can swap stores between).

I have used the diatomaceous earth (DE) on my IPM boards this year and was very successful in keeping down the small hive beetles. Don't know if they are an issue in Nova Scotia. Because the product I used was not 100% DE, but mostly clay, I did find where it picked up a lot of moisture. Not sure if it was helpful or not, that's just how it was. I don't have DE on my bottom boards now, as I can't see mite drop very well in the dust and I noticed mites on my bottom board in February, so I am monitoring for them right now.

One other thing to consider is thickness of your hive boards. I'm not sure of the temperature there, but some Canadian beekeepers use a thicker than 1" piece of wood for better insulation value.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Welcome to Bsource!



> whether Disputatious earth would help to keep humidity and moisture down in the hive


I suspect that you are referring to "diatomaceous earth". In terms of beehives, diatomaceous earth functions as a pest control only when critters get coated with it. Having diatomaceous earth below a screen (much like an "oil" tray), only kills those pests that get through the screen. This is likely to be only marginal usefulness (at best) in controlling varroa. Small hive beetles are much more mobile (off bees) than varroa and diatomaceous earth is more likely to to be useful in SHB control.

Humidity/moisture is better controlled via appropriate/suitable ventilation rather than counting on diatomaceous earth to provide assistance. Even if diatomaceous earth were useful for humidity control, it would likely require a lot of human intervention (time spent replacing DE) for this to have an appreciable effect. Set your hive up properly and let the bees do their own humidity control.


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## NSBee (Dec 20, 2014)

ruthiesbees said:


> NSBEE,
> Sounds like you are headed toward a Horizontal Lang hive, if I understand your latest post. With the Lang nuc, did you plan remove the frames so that it is only the top bars? or allow the bees to transition over to just a top bar as they draw more comb? One of the guys in my bee club has built a jig that will accept medium frames turned 90 degrees to get the bees from a Lang nuc into a KTBH. Like you said, a lot is a matter of personal preference.
> 
> I like my hive height to be comfortable to where I don't have to bend down too much to look in the window. But if you do decide to go with a Horizontal Lang, I bet you will find yourself supering it for more honey production. That can be somewhat of the trade off between Langs and TBH. My TBH's grow bees like crazy, so you may find that you don't need the second nuc the following spring. You will be able to split your own 1st hive and make a couple more, if it's really strong. That's what I did this year, but I didn't harvest any honey, so that's the trade off. You also need to decide if you are trying to go foundationless (TBH) or foundation sheets (long Lang). ....
> ...


Yes i think Horizontal Lang hive , but using the tp tar frame method . your point about using thicker stock is a good one I think I will take . In addition to extra insulation it will likely add much structural strength so that in the event i want to try adding Lang suppers on top it can Handel the weight . Initially my plan is to just use the lang frames that come with the nuke and give the bees top bars with triangle guides which they can build out on . eventually they should move off the nuke frames and I can replace them with top bar frames . This i will try to keep standard for all hives , however i want to make sure there is a rabbit joint/shelf in the hive so I can add lang frames if needed , by using heavier stock I will have lots of side wall to cut into so i should not have to add a stick to the inside thus keeping the walls obstruction free. This should add flexibility , in the event i decide to try more lang frames , also lang frames being the standard I want to have the ability to easily add them if i get into queen rearing at some point in the future ( I have been watching too much youtube recently ) .

I do have a question though , what is the thickness of the top bar of a lang frame ? ( I need to know how deep to make the rabbit cut , also what is the length of this top bar ? 

really looking forward to trying this this spring .


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

You can find all frame dimensions in the PDF at this _Build It Yourself_ page:

http://www.beesource.com/build-it-yourself/dadant-type-frames/


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## Tomas (Jun 10, 2005)

*“Hives for Nothing, Bees for Free”*

NSBee--check out a recent post in my blog, “Musings on Beekeeping,” about starting an inexpensive top bar hive project.

It may not be completely applicable to you but hopefully it will at least give you some inspiration in getting your bee project started. Several years ago I returned to work seasonally in Wisconsin, where I’m from originally. I started 12 top bar hives with my older brother with as little investment as possible. This involved using recycled materials to make the boxes. We did buy some of the original bees but also were able to trap several swarms and do a colony removal.

http://musingsonbeekeeping.blogspot.com/2014/12/musings-about-economical-beekeeping.html

The most recent post in the blog is about alternative materials for building tbh boxes. Most are geared towards a tropical climate since the majority of my beekeeping has been done in Honduras. One of them may work in Nova Scotia, the corn stalk hive, especially if you make the walls thick enough.

http://musingsonbeekeeping.blogspot.com/2014/12/musings-about-economical-beekeeping_23.html

Good luck.
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Tom


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## NSBee (Dec 20, 2014)

*Re: “Hives for Nothing, Bees for Free”*

Tomas
that is a great blog , very interesting with a lot of useful info . 
Thanks for the link


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## Eric Crosby (Jan 4, 2015)

*Re: “Hives for Nothing, Bees for Free”*

Yes Tomas great blog, lots of different creative solutions for various locals and various available materials. NSBee, I am over on the West coast where we have lots of beautiful cedar around, I get mine at the beach which costs me nothing but time. Regarding thickness of stock, if you are concerned about R value, you dont get much from the wood. You will be better off with Rigid insulation on the top bars 1 inch thick or 1 1/2 and if you are very concerned you can add the same to your side walls. If you do plan for thicker stock (1 1/2) hopefully you dont have to move it very often. I have all of mine on stands so they are a nice height to work but I dont have the affixed legs that some like, as they are fine in the backyard, but when it come time to move them they can present some challenges. Red Cedar is nice and light, but I am not sure how available it is on the East coast.
If you are able to purchase and nuc from and copy the dimensions of the other TBH beekeeper close to you, you will be walking down easy street  If you are looking for more coastal info ont TBH West coast style you might find redeagle.com of interest.

All the best


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## Apismellifera (Oct 12, 2014)

*Re: “Hives for Nothing, Bees for Free”*

I like the free bees thing, with packages or nucs running a coupla hundred monetary units. And the bees are local, so should be adapted well. 

If you have a somewhat flexible schedule, chasing down swarms is a gas. Put your gear in the vehicle and put an ad up on your local craigslist or similar or anywhere folks might see it. People are fairly petrified of a clump of bees and are glad when you take them away, but they are docile when swarming and it's really quite easy if you just take it nice and easy. ;-)

All you really need is a box. Everything else can be fudged, but I like my gear so I have a nice box and scent it with a bit of lemongrass oil and/or old comb, something like a spatula or putty knife, a bit of rope so you can jerk a branch better or move it lower to access, truck bed makes a nice platform to get up, and a ladder in the truck bed if you can maneuver that lets you get up pretty high. I like a clean white cotton dress shirt with snug cuffs and neck, and I've brought along a safari hat with mesh and gloves but haven't used 'em. Decide beforehand what you will not do - getting a swarm 20' up in a tree over a bank is probably not feasible if you are not monkey man and have a partner on the ground. People are glad to help a bit if they don't have to be too close to the bees, and are interested, great time to share some knowledge.

Have fun! It's a great feeling to have the hive built and ready.


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