# Considering beekeeping....



## hank (Jul 26, 2005)

Hi, I was thinking about getting into beekeeping but have NO idea what it entails... I was wondering if someone could recommend some books so I could learn more about it. Thanks..


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## beecron (Nov 7, 2004)

Beekeeping for Dummies is very good. It gives a very good general overview without being boring or too "scientific."


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## Todd Zeiner (Jun 15, 2004)

Another good starter book is "How to keep bees and sell honey" by Walter T Kelley


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## peggjam (Mar 4, 2005)

"The Beekeepers Handbook" aby Diana Sannatari and Alphonse Avitabile, is good, as is The Complete Handbook of Beekeeping by Herbert Mace.

peggjam


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## Barbee (Jul 26, 2005)

BeeKeeping for Dummies was my favorite once I started out. The humor kept it all in perspective. My copy is now coated with syrup, bent and doggeared: sure signs of a useful book.


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## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

A brand-new book, one designed for the beekeeper
who wants no-fuss simple non-technical beekeeping
is "The Backyard Beekeeper", by Kim Flottum.

Its like $16 over at Amazon, and much more useful
than "beekeeping for dummies", in that you
are drawing on decades of first-hand experience,
presented for someone who may not want more than
just a few hives for the garden. It is the first
book I've seen that overtly proposes using 8-frame
equipment, so I like it for that reason alone.

Disclaimer: Kim is a buddy, but trust me, if
he makes beer money from this book, everyone
will be shocked. It was a labor of love, as
all books are.


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## Sungold (May 11, 2003)

Jim,

If congestion is one of the primary causes of swarming, why would someone suggest a newbee start with less than the standard 10 frame box?

Hey- It just dawned on me, maybe I need to read Kims book?


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

I found Beekeeping for Dummies somewhat of a waste. Just too much info left out......

Just hang out here and you'll get more than most books will give you. If you can find a beekeeper in the area go and introduce yourself and offer some free help for some tutoring.


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

Reading is fun, entertaining, educational, and necessary, but combine that with a membership in your county or other beekeepers club and your reading means five times as much and is PRICELESS.

Welcome and good luck.


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## ikeepbees (Mar 8, 2003)

Sungold,

There are some that don't buy the idea that congestion is one of the primary causes of swarming. Walt Wright (the "checkerboarding" guru) contends that congestion is a symptom of the swarm process rather than a causative factor. A simple yet significant distinction.

I have been using his checkerboarding techniques and have seen improved swarm control and increased honey production.


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## redhawknc1 (Jun 16, 2005)

Being a newbie (about 4 months), the books noted in this thread were all purchased and consumed! Went to my 1st county bee meeting last month and to the NC State Bee Association 3 day Meeting a couple of weeks ago! Have a mentor with a lifetime of beekeeping! But it is on this forum that I hear the discussions about the everyday experiences of a variety of bee people with all kinds of different experiences! This is what I enjoy the most! After all, it is the combination of all above, that I choose to manage my bees a certain way! Maybe, it is because each day something new can be learned!
But, I like to hear the differences in peoples ways of beekeeping, from race of bees to mite treatments! I can get a well rounded amount of information to use to help me decide on the direction I would like to take! Thanks to all!
The checkerboarding mentioned is something I would like to learn more about in depth! Where do I get further info on the writings of Walt Wright?


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## Pugs (Jul 15, 2004)

Well said redhawk!

Keep reading here and you'll learn a lot. I read this board for 9 months before I got my first hives. There are so many different ways of beekeeping - someone sig is ask 2 beekeepers, get 3 answers - keep reading and decide which ways make sense for you and your situation.

For Walt's checkerboarding, do a search on this sit for Walt Wright. One of the many threads has his contact information. If I remember correctly it is $10 for his manual, or you can get it as a PDF for less, I think.

Pugs


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## Sungold (May 11, 2003)

ikeepbees,

Well there you go. I got a copy of Walts manual "Nectar Management- principals and Practices" but I got it rather late in the spring. I've been so busy that I decided that I would read it over the winter in prep for next year. Just like Pugs said above "read and you'll learn a lot". Thanks for you feedback.


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## Barry Tolson (May 26, 2004)

Hank,
Just my 2 cents worth...I think Beekeeping for Dummies is a great book for a person with no experience...covers the basics well, I think. That said...I think that one outgrows that book quickly. I had kept bees a while before reading the Dummies book. Once I read it, a lot of some really basic question I had were answered. I usually advise those who ask to read the Dummies book, get a mentor, start keeping a couple of hives, then just start reading everything you can get your hands on. Everyone has an opinion, so I've found benefit in learning the basics with some guidance then reading that everyone else thinks...then gleaning what makes sense at the time. Of course, as I experience more, the things that "make sense" change! IMO, the Dummies book is good because it, more than most other books, assumes you know nothing about beekeeping.


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## Hillside (Jul 12, 2004)

Before you get too far into things you may want to check out this site.

http://www.ento.psu.edu/extension/factsheets/fact_sheets.htm

It has some nice stuff on the basics and is free. If things still look interesting to you, spend some cash on the books.


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## kenpkr (Apr 6, 2004)

The Beekeeper's Handbook is a great book and can probably be found used at a good price at half.com or amazon. Georgie Imirie's articles are informative and rousing. Read these forums a lot and learn to use the search function correctly because, chances are, your question has been covered before. The below site has lots of links to keep you busy for a while.
Good luck!

http://www.pollinator.com/beekper_resources.htm


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## BubbaBob (Jan 18, 2005)

Free starter info:

University of Ga Bee Lab web site
University of Tn Entomology web site.

Both have excellent beginner, and not so beginner, info.

Still want more? Two inexpensive starters:

As noted above, The Beekeepers Handbook
A Day in the life of the Apiary by Dr Keith Delaplane, Univ of GA.

The pentultimate beekeepers book? The Hive and the Honeybee

Those will get you 10% there...the other 90% requires you get your hands dirty.

BubbaBob


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## arky188 (Mar 6, 2005)

Hi, im a newbie also, I bought the video series (Honey bees and beekeeping, A year in the life of an Apiary ) 
Its pretty nice, shows the entire year and the phases you go thru, shop around you can get the video cheaper thru e-bay sometimes or just watch your PBS station as its run on Public Broadcasting usually around fund raising season :0)


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## BubbaBob (Jan 18, 2005)

Best way to get it so the biggest part og the money you spend goes to more research is to get thru the UGA Bee Lab. Phone 706/769-1736.

BubbaBob


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## indypartridge (Nov 18, 2004)

I'd like to suggest just lurking at sites such as this. I started thinking about beekeeping last summer, spent all fall and winter lurking at several bee sites and forums before getting my hive this past spring. There's an enormous amount of good advice, solutions, tricks, and general information you'll find here.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Hi, I was thinking about getting into beekeeping but have NO idea what it entails... I was wondering if someone could recommend some books so I could learn more about it. Thanks.. 

Maybe I'm different, everyone seems to think so  , but I'd get several books and not just beginners books. The first time through won't make a lot of sense, but eventually it will. You need to go over and over the concepts of the life cycle of a bees. The concepts of a yearly cycle of a bee colony. The concepts of the yearly cycle of beekeeping. The concepts of bee equipment and what it's for. Eventually it will make more and more sense. What I say about learning is: "If you not confused, you aren't learning anything". Being confused is uncomfortable, but if you want to learn, it's necessary. You just have to work your way through it.

The other thing that is worth more than all the books is to find a beekeeper to show you a REAL hive and REAL brood and a REAL queen.









>If congestion is one of the primary causes of swarming, why would someone suggest a newbee start with less than the standard 10 frame box?

I have mostly long hives (33 frames long and no supers) and eight frame hives. Neither swarm if I stay on top of things and keep the brood nest from getting clogged up. I have no more swarming in a eight frame box than a ten frame box. And the boxes are SO much easier to manage. All eight frame mediums means NO box weighs more than 48 pounds. Basically HALF of the weight of a full deep.

>There are some that don't buy the idea that congestion is one of the primary causes of swarming. Walt Wright (the "checkerboarding" guru) contends that congestion is a symptom of the swarm process rather than a causative factor. A simple yet significant distinction.

It seems like a lot of beekeepers (mostly inexperienced ones) think that the whole swarming issue is to have empty supers or plenty of room on top. While this is certainly a good plan in a flow and certainly contributes to preventing the brood nest from getting filled with honey, it will not, in itself, prevent the brood nest from filling up nor will it prevent swarming.

Complaining that the bees swarmed with room in the supers is like complaining that your spouse left you even though you paid all the bills. While paying all the bills is a responsible thing to do, and not doing so could contribute to having maritial problems, it is only a small part of the whole relationship.


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## TwT (Aug 5, 2004)

I started coming to this site about 7 month's before I got my bee's, when I started coming here I had not much of a idea what most were even talking about, went and bought Beekeeping For Dummies and also ordered a complete hive kit, well in the hive kit was a Small book called Starting Right With Bee's and I enjoyed it more than the dummies book, but the main way the books help me was understanding what was suppose to happen and then I could get in the beesource and learn all the different ways other used, the books gave me a understanding and this site helped refine my learning, but most of my learning came with my bee's and if I seen something I wasn't sure about, I would long on to the web and ask questions. plus you will learn more here than in any books, if you wrote a book about everthing said in this site to help with learning, you would need a forklift to carry it. hope this helps


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## Troutsqueezer (May 17, 2005)

>Hi, im a newbie also, I bought the video series (Honey bees and beekeeping, A year in the life of an Apiary )< 

Thank God for Tivo.
While surfing upcoming programs to pick for later recording, I noticed one called "Bees" and told Tivo to catch it next time it aired. To my surprise it was an entire series on beekeeping! A picture is worth a thousand words and a moving picture is worth much more. 
I was surprised at the ease with which the host -Delaplane, spelling probably not correct- would work his hives. For example, since I am also new to this - 4 months now - I am slow and cautious when opening the hive and handling the frames. But this guy, with his obvious experience, was extremely quick about his inspections and seemed to me to be almost careless about where he rested his frames and how he manipulated the supers, almost not caring about crushing a few bees in the process. Logic tells me this is how it's done out there in the experienced world. Since I live too far from any beekeeper associations, this was my first visual of someone who knew what they were doing. 
I still have visions of him pushing the bees around with his bare fingers to get them the heck out of the way, brushing 20 or 30 of them off the top of the frames with the back of his hand, like getting stung was the farthest thing from his mind...


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## Sungold (May 11, 2003)

MB, your reply to my post regarding 8 vs 10 frames for a "beginner" expresses "your" ability to manage the 8 frame set up. Your not a beginner, of course an experienced keeper can manage an 8 frame set up. My point was simply that 10 frames provides more surface area and that the increased surface area provides a greater tolerance which would be helpful to a "newbee" as they develop the skillset needed to anticipate the exponential spring increase in the colony population.

My point was not to do with swarm control but rather that someone new to beekeeping would be better served sticking to books advocating the basics first (no 8 frames, no checkerboarding).


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>MB, your reply to my post regarding 8 vs 10 frames for a "beginner" expresses "your" ability to manage the 8 frame set up. Your not a beginner, of course an experienced keeper can manage an 8 frame set up.

It takes the exact SAME skill to run an eight frame medium hive as a ten frame deep hive. Both will swarm if you don't manage them. Both will not if you do manage them. What is the difference?

>My point was simply that 10 frames provides more surface area and that the increased surface area provides a greater tolerance which would be helpful to a "newbee" as they develop the skillset needed to anticipate the exponential spring increase in the colony population.

I think the 8 frame provides a smoother increase in size for the bees to manage and an eight frame medium is a better starting size for a package and will result in much more success.

>My point was not to do with swarm control but rather that someone new to beekeeping would be better served sticking to books advocating the basics first (no 8 frames, no checkerboarding). 

I disagree entirely. If a new beekeeper goes by the books and especially if that new beekeeper is a person without so much upper body strength, they soon find themselves in the position of having a hive of two deeps and they can't even lift the top one to get to the brood chamber. I see this often. An older lady who wants some bees for her garden and now she can't lift the box to do an inspection, has no friends brave enough to help her and she is ready to give up on beekeeping as something too strenuous for her. She followed the books and now has a lot of equipment that is not really usable for her at all. NOW she would like to convert to eight frame mediums instead of ten frame deeps but she has several hundred dollars invested in equipment that is of no value to her. With eight frame mediums she can manage the boxes.

The beekeeping doesn't change at all. You STILL have to keep the brood nest open no matter what size frames and what size boxes or the bees will swarm. They will swarm virtually every year if all you do is throw on supers, like the books recommend. Although many people don't realize that they HAVE swarmed. If you checkerboard or open up the brood nest, they will hardly ever swarm. This has nothing to do with frame size, box size or anything to do with hive configuration. It only has to do with the bees.

For some people, the frame size and box size have to do with being able to even manage the hive AT ALL.


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

Sungold, MB, I have read many posts from you both and hold a lot of respect for both, but please get hold of yourselves. Reread your posts and tell me honestly if you feel these posts will help convince Hank that beekeeping is the place he needs to be and this forum is the place to learn how.
I think you both have went past thinking and are just responding to the argument.

LOOK AT YOURSELF


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## hank (Jul 26, 2005)

Hello All

Holy Cow!! Thanks so much for all the input! You've all given me some great advice. I'm going to have to stick to reading the books & reading everything here...No beekeepers I know of in the area. Where would I find out if there were? Does anyone know of someone in the UP or Northern WI that has bees?

Arguing won't chase me away...I think it's a way to learn things from differing opinions. I just glean what I need from either side..

Anyway thanks again for all the help!!


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Right attitude Hank.... vigorous discussion enhances the learning experience.

Check and see if state registration is required. If it is........ then you can access the list and find beekeepers near you. My state lists the phone as well as the address.


www.wihoney.com

http://www.dickason.com/bees/beeschool.html


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## Sungold (May 11, 2003)

Folks,

I apologize for coming off as argumentative. Although I currently disagree with MB on this particular issue, I respect him and the contribution he makes to this forum.


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## David Stewart (Jan 22, 2005)

Heck, the "arguing" or as I like to think of it "differing opinions" is one of the things I actually enjoy about this site. Often, I'll read a reply that doesn't make sense to me but because I have very little practical experience, I begin to question myself. It gives me a nice feeling when I "check back" and find that one of the senior/experienced/respected folks has jumped into the fray and posted exactly what I was thinking. It's a real confidence booster. Just remember, it's not personal and you can't see the grin through the writing.

P.S. My response to the original post is read everything you can get and when you decide to take the plunge- put everything together at a friends house, install your bees and pull up to the door and announce "honey, look what I got you for our anniversary"

David


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

my 10 frame hives swarm regularly with empty frames on the sides. I think they believe they are in an 8 frame hive, at least until they start putting up honey.







Swarm management is a basic beekeeping skill, that I cetainly haven't mastered yet.

Its good to read through the standard way in most beekeeping books but, it gives you the impression there is generally one way to do it. Beekeeping is much more dynamic than that. So much is not in the books and must be figured out. But you have to start somewhere. Check out the top bar hives if you haven't, that will help keep your mind open!


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I was not aware anyone was arguing. I certainly wasn't offended, nor did I intend to offend. Sungold stated his opinion and asked a question and I stated mine.

I do feel strongly that a lot of people who are not strong enough to lift a 90 pound deep box full of honey have been scared away from beekeeping or have wasted their money on equipment that does not suit their needs. I would like to save them that mistake.


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

I agree with you both. Different strokes for different folks. Thanks to you both for all you contribute here. "and all the others"
These last few posts show how good this forum really is. I just think you got a little carried away for a moment. Who knows, maybe he will wind up using TBH.
Thank you


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Let's try the concept of size again. If what you think is important for a beginner is having enough room for expansion, then you can put the bees in TWO eight frame medium boxes which is approximately the same as one 10 frame deep in volume, or three if it makes you happy. You can add two eight frame boxes at a time which again is the same as adding a 10 frame deep.

However, I think having the CORRECT volume of space for the volume of bees is more important.


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## Troutsqueezer (May 17, 2005)

Because I am big and strong, the thought of a 90 lb deep box full of honey gets me jazzed, but this is my first year, so I won't be picking up much I suspect. Maybe I'll get lucky though, the star thistle is blooming like crazy right now...


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## Alex Cantacuzene (May 29, 2003)

Hi, well here are some thoughts from an eternally thankful hobbyist for all the great advice and guidance on this forum. Knowing what I know now, if I had to start again, I would definitely start with a minimum of two colonies. I would also look very closely at top bar hives (TBH as I understand it).
The thought to have only medium hives of the Langstroth kind intrigues also, as we forget, we are getting older. I will not pick up another deep box of an active strong hive with nothing but muscle power. It is too heavy period, (I almost saw stars!)and then I just don't want to crush that many of my girls in desperation. With the tractor lift I will try to lift and lower on a slant. Of course I will use lots of smoke. Anyway, I would start with two hives at first and would stay with medium super throughout. Take care and have fun.


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## Deano (Sep 4, 2004)

I got the book bee keeping for dummies for one reason, so i would not look dumb! asking a lot of dumb quetions learning the lengo, you know supers frames, drones, workers, & ect. it was a lot of help when i went to ms,bee ass, in m.s.


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