# Trapping 2020 - success rate?



## GregB

To continue the trend (see Trapping 2018/2019 - success rate)....
I figure I start the 2020 thread so to post/read capture rates in a single place (vs. scanning the entire forum).

Sounds like the commotion down south already started.


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## beemandan

I've collected three from the trees and caught one in a trap. 
I was working nearby when I heard the swarm moving into the trap. They've all been huge. I got a video of the one going into the trap....I just don't know when I'll get it up.


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## Gray Goose

Its early snowing out right now, I still do not have any out, still building them.

I'll offer success stories thought, it may be 6 weeks from now.

GG


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## AR1

Gray Goose said:


> Its early snowing out right now, I still do not have any out, still building them.
> 
> I'll offer success stories thought, it may be 6 weeks from now.
> 
> GG


Snowed here today. Have one trap out, even though way too early. Looking to get serious end of April early May.


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## Gray Goose

AR1 said:


> Snowed here today. Have one trap out, even though way too early. Looking to get serious end of April early May.


:thumbsup: Timing sounds about right. The Day I see drones on the landing board of My hives will be the day I am full out trapping.
Building them in the shop now, Coated a few with Propolis tincture sat. made a bottom yesterday , stapled together two lids at lunch, heading out to paint, tonight.

Looks like I should be able to make 8-10. If I put them out too soon the ants move in, and early Bear and **** appetites need be sated as well.
I like the first swarms, plan this year to make several 2 Box traps, Been thinking of the BIG one that can't fit the reg traps. 
Deep and a medium, should do it.

GG


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## JWPalmer

i collected a swarm three weeks ago that provided me with a second mated queen a week later. I have run out of room already and only have one trap out. I gave my others away to a friend that needed boxes for nucs.


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## AR1

We have 'post your bloom dates' and 'post your swarm dates' forums, which I have spent quite a bit of time looking over.
I think we need a new forum 'Post your drone dates' where we note things like first drone spotted, many drones flying, and what date drones are driven out to die in the fall.


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## AR1

I think I need to rethink my timing. I took a look at the 'post your swarm dates' forum for the state due north of me, Wisconsin. I am in far northern Illinois, but even southern WI is distinctly colder and snowier than here most years. I see lots of swarm dates posted in April and May, so I don't see any reason there shouldn't be swarms here too. 

My earliest caught swarms here have been in late May, but that may just be that I have not been trapping very long. I see no drones yet in any of my hives.

I'd suggest other new trappers look in the swarm dates forum and at the state north of your own.


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## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> I think we need a new forum 'Post your drone dates' where we note things like first drone spotted, many drones flying, and what date drones are driven out to die in the fall.


Good suggestion, AR1... and like you I try to keep tabs of swarm action in states to the South, East and West of me to get some sense of what i should be expecting in my locale.

First swarm here in Western Kentucky was on April 4th, which is 20 days earlier than last year. It was also from one of my overwintered colonies (#1912) and was at only 200 GDD, suggesting (to me anyway) that the supplemental syrup feeding I gave them in the fall pushed them out earlier than Nature would have otherwise.


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## AR1

I was told in Ag college that the planting season advanced one week for every 100 miles south you go. So Kentucky should be roughly 4 weeks ahead of northern Il. 
Illinois is 390 miles north to south.


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## Tigger19687

I put out 2 hives, both 1 deep with foundation-less frames, LGO and some Beeswax 'dots' I have from making Lip Balm. I figured why not try to see if I can get some Scout bees to check it out 

These are next to each other as it is where my Hives will be placed. I was going to get a Nuc or maybe a pkg (and feed heavy in an inside feeder) I have not had bees before so no comb or anything else.
Crossing fingers so see what comes my way.

Yesterday with it being sunny and 60º I had a couple bees (with pollen) stop at my deck to rest (?). They just sat there and it looked like their butts were moving like they were breathing heavy- did that make sense? I got one on a stick and put it at the entrance of one hive. She left in about a min but hoping she comes back :kn:


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## WaverlyBees

Collected swarm out of a tree this past Sunday. Neighbor called yesterday and said there were more bees in the same spot so I went by after work and yep there was a softball size cluster on the same limb. Not sure if it is just more bees from the same swarm or another swarm all together. I'm thinking more bees from the same swarm. I'll collect them today.


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## Litsinger

AR1 said:


> I was told in Ag college that the planting season advanced one week for every 100 miles south you go. So Kentucky should be roughly 4 weeks ahead of northern Il.
> Illinois is 390 miles north to south.


AR1:

This makes good sense- and I appreciate you posting it. Good rule-of-thumb to keep in mind when I hear about swarms to the South of me in coming years.

Sorry for my delay in reply as I have been away from the computer.

Russ

Russ


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## ghost1230

SE Iowa here. I checked my overwintered hive Sunday and had a lot of sealed drone comb. Looked at the landing board Wednesday and saw a drone on it.
Might be early here also. About 30 miles north of Mo.


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## pmartens

Lubbock, TX, here, and just hived my first swarm of the season today, after it moved into the trap a week ago. Which is to say, my first swarm ever! Just starting out. 

I did have a small swarm move into the trap in late March and then leave (leaving behind a couple small comb sections, a few dozen eggs, and 6 stalwart workers, who died off)


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## StonyCreekBees

Collected my first swarm of the season! I’m in Southwest Virginia. Our temps lately have been kinda cool for this time of year and been very windy and a bit rainy. This whole month has shown the weather typical of March for my area (windy and rainy). However today my boss sent me a text and said she had a swarm in some bushes. So I grabbed a box and went over. It was a small swarm, bigger than a softball but smaller than a basketball. Maybe a tad smaller than a volleyball. But they likely came out of a tree about 15-20 ft away where she says there have always been bees for at least 15 years. It was the easiest swarm collection I’ve done. Well, not counting the ones that fly right into an empty hive or the ones that go in my swarm traps. I just snipped the main branch and sat them in my box and scooped the remainders off the bush and put them inside the box. It was late in the evening (around 7:30) and in the low 50s so they weren’t flying around all that much. Hopefully in the morning I’ll get around to transferring them into a hive. I have a deadout from this past winter that I’ve neglected to clean out. I knew swarm season was creeping up on me but with the weather lately I wasn’t expecting any activity yet. Now that swarm season is in swing I need to get my swarm trap fixed and hung up!


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## GregB

OK, our swarming season is here and now.
I will be running 7 locations.
Potentially, I will go rogue and sneak in a couple more into the near fishing and trapping area just because I can.

Within a couple of hours I put up a scented bait onto my back porch, I got scouts checking my used equipment already.
Was setting up a trap nearby - curious bees came before I was even done.
Was interesting to observe how the bees from clearly two different locations came - two different groups of the scouts were markedly different.

Though at other places nobody showed up yet, for as long as I was working there.

This year I am doing experimentation - self-made queen pheromone scent, recycling the queens.
As far as I can tell - it does not hurt and maybe helps - bees are coming for sure.








Also regarding putting up bait hives up - by a large part, the highly placed bait simply helps to distribute the scent better.
Instead of struggling the box high up, I put up a ziplock bag with a scent source as high as I can reach - this is to help the scent distribution by wind.
The trap hive simply sits on the ground level just below the bait - once the bees zero onto the location, nicely primed and well used hive is impossible to miss.


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## welder 59

I have 3 traps out. So far 1 for 3.


https://youtu.be/3yrlrx3by8U


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## odfrank

The log on top led to your success. 





welder 59 said:


> I have 3 traps out. So far 1 for 3.
> 
> 
> https://youtu.be/3yrlrx3by8U


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## GregB

odfrank said:


> The log on top led to your success.


Smell of rotten wood what led the bees to hollow trees for millions of years.

Outside of bee smell (dead or alive colony) - all they had to go on was the smell of rotten wood.

Speaking of the rotten wood:
- get a plastic bag full of old wood chips and old bark and such
- make them moist
- puncture the bag few times (actually I would use the grocery bags from potatoes/apples already pre-punctured)
- place the bag on top of your trap (moist the contents every time you check the trap)
I think this is as good as a log, if not better.

Of course, well primed equipment may not be needing the extra hassle.


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## Gray Goose

Well not really trapping success, More Swarm avoidance.
5-14 did a 4 way split due to Queen cells 1 capped several not capped
5-15 did a 3 way split due to Queen cells 1 capped , several not capped.
Likely would have swarmed later this week ( 5-18)
lower mid michigan. I do have some traps out will advise when The swarms find them

GG


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## odfrank

I have caught over 22, this does not includes a few already confirmed fails. And at least one of the 22 had no brood at inspection. I set out a fraction of what I set out in the past because three years of queen rearing gave me overwintered divides with new queens to fill up all my stands. And 25 buckets of unsold honey is no stimulation to fill more hives or produce more crop. I caught one in a five frame trap with only one black comb and four foundationless combs. I caught another on half gross old plastic combs and the other half waxed Randy Oliver Drone Trapping frames. It always surprises me that 10-15% of baited swarms do not take. I am also having big problems with hives not producing replacement queens after swarming.
Oh yeah, my favorite came into a pile of empty 8 frames supers, right next to several baited traps. Picture taken after shaking onto drawn combs and boxes separated with a bottom board.


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## GregB

odfrank said:


> I have caught over 22...


odfrank, 
So what is the %-age?
Caught swarms/number of traps?


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## clong

I put out 10 traps this year. My record this year is 5 trapped swarms.

2 swarms at one location. Two other traps have caught one each.
The fifth was a first for me. For two days bees were scouting a vacant 2 box 8-frame medium hive and a nearby swarm trap. They moved into the empty equipment.

The bees must have learned that trick from Mr. odfrank.


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## Steve in PA

Brought home 3 so far in the last week. I received a text earlier that I may have a 4th which moved into a spot I just reset a trap on yesterday. Strangely, the spot that I caught 2 last year has had zero activity from scouts. Maybe the bee tree if there was one is gone?


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## odfrank

GregV said:


> odfrank,
> So what is the %-age?
> Caught swarms/number of traps?


I did not track how many I put out. Plus we clean up and bait dead hives. I love the the thrill of coming to an apiary and finding a full trap I forgot I set out. I would think the catch success rate is over 75% and the fail rate is 10 -15%. We moved one 5 frame Jumbo depth trap last week into a 10 frame box, filled it with drawn combs and SCL and returned to find it full again five days later.


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## welder 59

odfrank said:


> The log on top led to your success.


I am sure it helps. I have deadwood on all my traps.


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## GregB

Finally the weather turned for the better.
Yeah!
Two teams of the scouting bees resumed the fighting over this particular trap sitting in my backyard - AS IF there are no other choices within few feet!
The teams are - the Blacks vs. the Yellows - the daggers are out.
I am rooting for the Blacks.


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## beemandan

I’ve gotten 3 in my two trap locations and 6 in stored equipment.
This one was unintended but welcome.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=un6j8ieYxl8


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## RockChucker30

I put out one trap and caught a swarm 3 days later. Put it back up and had another in a week.

Built more traps.

Have 5 out now and have caught 6 swarms. Have caught a swarm in EVERY location I've put one up, which is nice.

Warm weather later this week may get another or two, but rain and cool nights really slows them down.


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## Riverderwent

RockChucker30 said:


> Warm weather later this week may get another or two, but rain and cool nights really slows them down.


Where are you located?


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## GregB

GregV said:


> Finally the weather turned for the better.
> Yeah!.....


I jinxed it - back to rain again.
Rain, rain, and more rain.

Double-edged sword - the swarming pressure maybe building up, but if the weather keeps holding back, lots of chances are being lost.


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## welder 59

Looks like 2 for 3. After Arthur went by with his 3 days of rain.

https://youtu.be/zF9yOD69aC4


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## GSH

3 swarms and 8 in traps


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## gwb

I’m new to bee keeping. I built 7 traps and finally caught my first swarm today.


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## JWPalmer

Congratulations on your first swarm.


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## GregB

gwb said:


> I’m new to bee keeping. I built 7 traps and finally caught my first swarm today.


Congrats.
Please add location to your profile.


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## AR1

ARRGH! You guys are driving me crazy! I have seen a few scouts on and off for weeks, but no determined. Today was more activity than usually, mostly in my garage, so I took all the old equipment outside. They were scouting that. Few more days? Weeks?


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## GregB

AR1 said:


> ARRGH! You guys are driving me crazy! I have seen a few scouts on and off for weeks, but no determined. Today was more activity than usually, mostly in my garage, so I took all the old equipment outside. They were scouting that. Few more days? Weeks?


Same here.
Very active scouting few days ago, with the bees fighting for the backyard trap.
Then rain cut it all off.
Now - not much.
The rain could have stopped the pending swarms (or the owners did, of course; but I doubt they were in the hives in the rain).
The rain is really a double-edges sward.


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## Litsinger

gwb said:


> I’m new to bee keeping. I built 7 traps and finally caught my first swarm today.


Congratulations, gwb- welcome to Beesource!


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## garlorco

So caught four of my own swarms and one in a trap given to a friend. Things got hopping here two weeks ago and haven't let up yet. Talked someone into getting a hive and starting beekeeping so that's a plus too. Setting a trap out for feral bees next week.


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## GregB

1/8.
The back porch delivers 3 years in a row.








Also found scouts at four other locations.

PS: for the record, I don't count 2 swarms I took of the trees this season so far;
those were not technically trapped.


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## AR1

3 swarms so far caught, but all out of my own nucs and none in traps. In fact they were not even scouting any of my traps. None very large so all went into 5-frame nucs. 
Yesterday afternoon my wife woke me up to tell me the bees were swarming. They separated into 2 clumps about 5 feet apart in my peach trees. One I shook into a box. The other was wrapped around the trunk so I used a paint brush and brushed them into a plastic bag. Seemed to work well, the bees are staying put in their nucs. So I believe the queens went in the nucs, probably virgins.

My back yard is getting busy. From 3 to 5 to now 8. Less than two weeks.


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## JWPalmer

Greg, great news! So this year so far you are 2 captured and 1 trapped, scouts at multiple locations. That is a pretty stong comeback. More so because you are not capturing your own swarms. 

I like capturing my own too, I look at them as splits where the bees decided who goes and who stays. No problem with the foragers returning to the parent hive.


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## clong

7/10 so far. Best year ever!


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## odfrank

I had two side by side 5 frame traps. On 5/22 one had caught a queen and ten workers. On 5/30 both traps had about three frames of bees. So I wonder if half of the 2nd swarm into the empty trap joined the lonely queen or if new swarms came into each box?


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## GregB

odfrank said:


> I had two side by side 5 frame traps. On 5/22 one had caught *a queen and ten workers.* On 5/30 both traps had about three frames of bees. So I wonder if half of the 2nd swarm into the empty trap joined the lonely queen or if new swarms came into each box?


Wow; now that is some nano-swarm. 
Never heard or seen anything that tiny.
At least a cup of bees has to be there to qualify it a "swarm".

Maybe some queen got confused during a mating flight and came back to a wrong hive.


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## odfrank

See this 2012 thread where Charlie B challenged to out baithive me:

https://www.beesource.com/forums/sh...e/page13&highlight=odfrank+baithive+challenge


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## GregB

Well, almost 2/8.
Almost, because the swarm not done entering the trap just yet.
By about 15:30 CST should be 2/8.
The backyard was hit again.


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## clong

Gregv,

Great! Did you get to watch it approach the trap? Any pictures?


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## GregB

clong said:


> Gregv,
> 
> Great! Did you get to watch it approach the trap? Any pictures?


2/8 it is.
Same old spot on the same old porch (different bait unit today from the unit used on May 30th).
Today is hot and humid, and right away in the morning I knew something was developing - you could tell by the scout activity.
So it happens with the backyard trapping, I got to watch every single time a swarm landed.
In fact, entire family is getting used to this annual swarm landing show.
My daughter made up some TikTok videos about the swarm landing this time around so to boost her ratings. 








Consistently, they ALWAYS take exact same spot on my porch no matter how many choices I have offered.
This season I offer four different choices on the backyard - does not matter.
They select the same spot every single time.


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## odfrank

We are on to something here. Those porches with wood railings are hot trapping grounds. 

https://youtu.be/A_ELPJHPeZE


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## GregB

So I got this empty 16-frame long hive standing; smells delicious, has old frames inside but it is big.
Gets some so-so interest only.
One on the left. 
Maybe it is too big indeed.








Have this 40-50L trap standing just between the hives above.
Has enough interest but never enough to score a swarm.
One in the middle (pic above).

Have this 40-50L trap standing like so on the porch.
This is the trap hive where swarm moved into on May 30th (has to be smelling very fresh; I re-hived the bees out of on Sunday).
This porch location has enough interest and still not enough to score.








All because this particular spot (pictured below) the bees find irresistible and always select.
On May 30th I observed some significant conflict between the three smaller traps, but this spot won in the end.
Today this spot just won over the others, hands down; not much competition.
Maybe the railings create just enough obstacle to remind the bees forest or something.

This spot has been scoring me swarms every year so far since I realized I didn't need to drive far and wide. 
Well, still drive around, but much less. LOL








All within a small suburban backyard.

So far, I can also say, these 40-50L traps attract much more attention vs. the large empty long hive.
Pretty much the case in my lab.


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## GregB

3/8.

The bees proved me wrong and chose a different corner of my porch this time around.
Never say never, sure enough.
Nice and big one too.
Scouting kinda started yesterday and this AM I knew for sure something was developing.
I kept checking; looked out at about 1pm - there was bee cloud landing.
Another photo/video session taken on three phones. 
It will be another busy night - 1)moving this swarm to some permanent location and 2)re-hiving the most recent swarm I moved to a farm just last night; they need a better home and I need the trap back into rotation.


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## clong

GregV said:


> 3/8.
> 
> The bees proved me wrong and chose a different corner of my porch this time around.
> Never say never, sure enough.
> Nice and big one too.
> 
> View attachment 56453


Gregv,

Beautiful-looking swarm! Looks like 8+ pounds. Hopefully, you'll get some excess honey from them this year.

Hope the move goes well.


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## odfrank

I have five hives at a host's who has four hives of his own. We compete for incoming swarms into our dead hives. The log was on mine for weeks, and when he saw increased scouting activity he put one on his. Too late, my ten frame on the right caught the one yesterday. Great trapping site, we bring in four or more a year and could probably up that number substantially. It is up on a hill facing west and exposed to a big valley with great residential and eucalyptus forage. We just leave the deadouts sitting on their stands baited with some LGO or SCL. This is about my 29th catch this year. Still a bunch of dead brood chambers to go, probably won't fill them all.


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## GregB

clong said:


> Gregv,
> 
> Beautiful-looking swarm! Looks like 8+ pounds. Hopefully, you'll get some excess honey from them this year.
> 
> Hope the move goes well.


Last year I had a very nice swarm on this exact porch that pretty much "packed" the trap wall to wall (this one looks similar).
They produced a good honey crop, but ultimately perished to mites.
I think this year I will try taking a queen away from each good-sized swarm mid-July or so - as an attempt to control the mite while still making some crop.

Gee, I better start making rounds ASAP, maybe my other traps are full and I am missing out on more swarms.


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## odfrank

I have been Apivaring some of mine as soon as possible after arrival while they get established and then remove after 6 weeks before adding any supers. One can really notice the vigor when they are mite free.


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## gww

gregv
Very nice swarm. Back in business in impressive style.
Cheers
gww


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## GregB

gww said:


> gregv
> Very nice swarm. Back in business in impressive style.
> Cheers
> gww


Easy go, easy come.
Did I get it backwards? 
How it works with me, anyhow.

It maybe lots of bees got sold over the last year in my suburbia.
Today's swarm is uniformly dark bee (could be Carnica, could be Russians).


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## AR1

Still waiting, tapping fingers. Not even any scouting right now. I did drive around and check the neighbors, found that of the three homes I knew of last year, only one has a single hive this year. Still, just from my own hive's swarms and splits I have eight living hives, not sure how many have queens. Did see a little pollen going into one, and gave a frame of eggs to another.

It is hot, humid, sunny and a good flow on, so I am hoping June will be good. Compared to last year, this year is wonderful bee weather.


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## GregB

AR1 said:


> Still waiting, tapping fingers. Not even any scouting right now. I did drive around and check the neighbors, found that of the three homes I knew of last year, only one has a single hive this year. Still, just from my own hive's swarms and splits I have eight living hives, not sure how many have queens. Did see a little pollen going into one, and gave a frame of eggs to another.
> 
> It is hot, humid, sunny and a good flow on, so I am hoping June will be good. Compared to last year, this year is wonderful bee weather.


You are doing fine, AR.
Catching your own counts just as well.
You lost one/you gained one right back == somehow the end results become one more hive (not zero sum).

In my area I knew of two yards as of last year (within 2 miles).
One is of my treatment-free friend.
I don't know the statuses as of now.
But surely, the bees keep coming from somewhere (I keep hoping I get a treatment-free swarm).


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## AR1

GregV said:


> You are doing fine, AR.
> Catching your own counts just as well.
> You lost one/you gained one right back == somehow the end results become one more hive (not zero sum).


Ah, but the GAME is trapping a swarm. Scooping up your own is different. It was fun, but it's a different fun to catch a swarm of who-knows-what bees from who-knows-where.


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## GregB

GregV said:


> 3/8.


Scratch that.
4/8.

Moved today's swarm to my another farm site so I can plug them into a dead-out hive.
Well, what do we see here?


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## GregB

And a picture of a drunk bee.
She just would not let go of the bottle.
Had to pry her off.


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## Litsinger

GregV said:


> Scratch that.
> 4/8.


Congratulations, GregV. Nothing better than an unexpected catch.


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## GregB

5/8.





















This trap is sitting in a state nature preserve wetland, directly above a temporary creek (dry now) on a rotten log.
About a foot above ground.
This is a very thick willow stand, but there is an up/down "chimney" in that growth for the bee flight path.
It is next to the gravel parking lot, but the trap is not visible until you are 2-3 feet away from it.
I figured I'd experiment some and it worked out.
I also attached a second scent lure well above the trap onto a branch - so that the scent distributes around better.


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## ATLBeek

Two days ago I noticed bees occupying a baited five frame nuc containing 5 frames of old comb. It was baited with lemon grass oil. It was placed in a tree approx. 20 feet up. Planning on transferring it to a 10 frame box 3 days from now. I have some sugar water tied to tree under hive but they are not using it.


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## GregB

ATLBeek said:


> Two days ago I noticed bees occupying a baited five frame nuc containing 5 frames of old comb. It was baited with lemon grass oil. It was placed in a tree approx. 20 feet up. Planning on transferring it to a 10 frame box 3 days from now. I have some sugar water tied to tree under hive but they are not using it.


20 feet is way high (unless it is a deterrent from two-legged thieves or bears).
If they fill up the trap with honey, have fun taking it down.

Sugar water is not needed with the trap.


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## GregB

GregV said:


> View attachment 56489


This one was so darn heavy, I had hard time carrying just 100 feet - the trap was full of honey.
I managed to drop it too.
Made myself a "fun" project yesterday - moving the bees from trap into a big hive.
Two combs full of honey and eggs got torn and fell (when I dropped the trap).
Anyway, good times.

I was so, so thankful (to myself) this monster was not on a tree.


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## Litsinger

GregV said:


> 5/8.


You've got the mojo going on this year, GregV. Good for you.

Russ


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## odfrank

We checked four sites today and found a two frame catch on top of this center hive. That is a ten frame trap on top of the inner cover. I am primarily trapping in my apiaries to minimize picking up and moving. Several baits and divides were short of stores. Must not be much of a flow on. Those two aluminum painted supers are some of my oldest, 50 years with me and more with the original owner. The olive green one the newest, made for ten 7 7/8" Mann Lake frames that came with this client's setup. Must have been ordered by mistake. Now we will curse them everytime they do not match our mediums and shallows and deeps.


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## GregB

Based on the activity on the porch this AM so far, I very well might drag down another one today.
Fingers crossed.

I think I am getting why my porch is so busy this year (vs. the previous years).
I am storing three full boxes of old, black frames I scored recently (for free) directly on the porch and in full morning sun.
This is done to eradicate and prevent the moth infestation from those combs - sun and wind and rain do a great job at it, btw.
Those combs are in terrible shape.
(Someone kept the frames in a heated garage and ruined combs by doing so - the moth infestation is so bad; but I killed them all off just by keeping outside for a couple of months - late spring frost and cold rains did them in).

So this stash of the black combs gets heated in the sun every morning and creates a nice plume of scent that goes all over the area.
Bingo!
Bees keep coming in droves.









Going forward, I will be dragging out all of my old frames needing safe storage - directly onto the porch.
Great method to repel the moths all the while dragging down swarms.


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## odfrank

Be careful not to let hot sun shine directly between the combs. They will melt.


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## GregB

odfrank said:


> Be careful not to let hot sun shine directly between the combs. They will melt.


Well, up here the sun is not as hot and it also moves along the sky (so it is not focused on a single spot for long).
The combs become shiny and just hot enough to put out lots of scent.
But they don't melt.
Also important to stand up the boxes like radiators - the air moves through and cools the frames some while taking the scent around.


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## Gray Goose

GregV said:


> Based on the activity on the porch this AM so far, I very well might drag down another one today.
> Fingers crossed.
> 
> I think I am getting why my porch is so busy this year (vs. the previous years).
> I am storing three full boxes of old, black frames I scored recently (for free) directly on the porch and in full morning sun.
> This is done to eradicate and prevent the moth infestation from those combs - sun and wind and rain do a great job at it, btw.
> Those combs are in terrible shape.
> (Someone kept the frames in a heated garage and ruined combs by doing so - the moth infestation is so bad; but I killed them all off just by keeping outside for a couple of months - late spring frost and cold rains did them in).
> 
> So this stash of the black combs gets heated in the sun every morning and creates a nice plume of scent that goes all over the area.
> Bingo!
> Bees keep coming in droves.
> 
> View attachment 56549
> 
> 
> Going forward, I will be dragging out all of my old frames needing safe storage - directly onto the porch.
> Great method to repel the moths all the while dragging down swarms.


So an old dog can learn a new trick.

Great tip Greg
Thanks

GG


----------



## odfrank

Yes those old black combs are tough. But new combs can go quickly. Stacking the boxes staggered slightly achieves the same scent wafting and offers more sheltered nesting attraction. But you lose some of the moth discouragement.


----------



## GregB

odfrank said:


> Yes those old black combs are tough. But new combs can go quickly. Stacking the boxes staggered slightly achieves the same scent wafting and offers more *sheltered nesting attraction*. But you lose some of the moth discouragement.


I don't particularly care for a swarm to move into the stacks - I got traps for the swarms.

Primarily, I started doing this precisely to store the combs safely from moth re-infestation.
This is still early here for moth - the moth start in earnest in area about July and forward.
This is mostly experimentation how to keep the spare combs safely.

No matter how junky the combs are, I keep them because even the most junky combs can be filled with honey one more time, before being crushed. Bees can repair the combs from most any poor shape easily and quickly.
Not to mention the value of this junk in the traps.

And so, watching the bee activity on the porch, I am realizing the swarm attracting side-effect of what I am doing - the comb storage in the open, on the porch, rain or shine.


----------



## cjwebber

Hello all!

First post here in the forum.

Caught my first swarm on Saturday June 8th in Southfield MI.

Used an old 8 Frame Deep with old comb and a Swarm Commander Lure. I had it setup for about 4 weeks.

On Saturday while watching the scouting activity, I noticed all of the bees leave. About 20 minutes later, I looked up and saw the swarm coming.

here is a video of the swarm moving in!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2k8tgMoC7vQ


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## GregB

cjwebber said:


> On Saturday while watching the scouting activity, I noticed all of the bees leave. About 20 minutes later, I looked up and saw the swarm coming.


Yep - this is common behavior per my back porch observation.
First very active scouting in the morning when more and more bees are coming and virtually tripping over each other in excitement.
Then a sudden lull, as if all of the bees just left (very similar to tsunami I should say - people must run when the sea backs off the shore, because the big wave is coming).
Then boom - the tsunami of bees comes crashing down.


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## dudelt

This year was a total bust. I have caught between 3 and 5 swarms each year for the last several years. This year, nothing. It was not much of a year for swarms in this area from what I have heard. None of my hive swarmed and never even came close to trying. I have never seen a swarm a late as June so for me, the year is over for swarm catching.


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## GregB

GregV said:


> Based on the activity on the porch this AM so far, I very well might drag down another one today.
> Fingers crossed...


Nope, not today. 
Not on the porch.


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## gwb

I checked a swarm trap yesterday. It appears I have caught another swarm. It is swarm number two out of seven swarm traps.


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## GregB

6/8.
Not the porch this time.
Landed into here:








So, 50% of the trapped so far landed directly at the ground level.
This to demo how climbing the trees is unnecessary (IF the conditions permit).

Poor swarming weather though.
First rain, then cold.
The nights have been down to almost 50F anymore.
That's June here.
I anticipates as the weather warms up, there will be an uptick of swarming again.


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## aran

i have caught 1 swarm from 5 traps so far this year and 1 swarm capture that i was called about and went and picked up.


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## clong

10/11.

The denominator was 10. Now it is 11. I recently heard from a trap host who had a box hanging from his tree for four years. He was seeing a lot of bees in his swimming pool. The trap removal went great, except that part of the strap including the hooks, had been engulfed by the tree.

The swarm season is essentially over here.


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## AR1

Zero swarms in traps. Not even any scouting. Caught a swarm from my own hive yesterday in a small tree, just off the ground. Quick shake and in the box. That's 4 swarms from my own hives this year.


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## GregB

AR1 said:


> Zero swarms in traps. Not even any scouting. Caught a swarm from my own hive yesterday in a small tree, just off the ground. Quick shake and in the box. That's 4 swarms from my own hives this year.


Too bad AR.
Your swarm sources must have moved on OR just terminated.
OR maybe they learned how to keep their own swarms to themselves!

Swarm trapping is very dynamic.

Also I find very interesting how different the swarms can be.
This year I got from classic yellow bees to totally black bees.
Some bees are very large (commercial foundation I figure) and some bees are pretty darn small - I want to think these are feral (but more likely just came from some very old black combs from a neglected hives (maybe some Warre?) - just as good as ferals it could be).

So now I am scratching my head what to do with all these bees I got - 8 active hives and trapping is still ongoing.


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## AR1

GregV said:


> Too bad AR.
> Your swarm sources must have moved on OR just terminated.
> OR maybe they learned how to keep their own swarms to themselves!
> 
> Swarm trapping is very dynamic.
> 
> Also I find very interesting how different the swarms can be.
> This year I got from classic yellow bees to totally black bees.
> Some bees are very large (commercial foundation I figure) and some bees are pretty darn small - I want to think these are feral (but more likely just came from some very old black combs from a neglected hives (maybe some Warre?) - just as good as ferals it could be).
> 
> So now I am scratching my head what to do with all these bees I got - 8 active hives and trapping is still ongoing.


Not unhappy, though I would like to have more than one queen line. Beginning to suspect she tends just a tiny bit swarmy. 
Right now I know of only one other local hive. The others moved or were not replaced this year.

I'm sure you will figure out what to do with all those bees.


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## gww

ar1
I always figured bees must be doing pretty good if they wanted to swarm. We can try and trick them and some time be successful. I really don't know if I believe that swarming can be bred into bees. Of course killer bees apparently leave on a dime and so I could be wrong. Plus chickens are bred to not be broody and it probably works but I still have some that want to sit and so wanting to reproduce must go pretty deep. Being healthy enough to actually swarm has to be a good thing though. IMHO
Cheer 
gww


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## AR1

gww said:


> ar1
> I always figured bees must be doing pretty good if they wanted to swarm. We can try and trick them and some time be successful. I really don't know if I believe that swarming can be bred into bees. Of course killer bees apparently leave on a dime and so I could be wrong. Plus chickens are bred to not be broody and it probably works but I still have some that want to sit and so wanting to reproduce must go pretty deep. Being healthy enough to actually swarm has to be a good thing though. IMHO
> Cheer
> gww


I think this is absolutely right. Swarming is a sign of health. They feel safe to split the hive. I have done nothing to reduce swarming on these bees except put a super on top. I am lucky that my wife has sharp ears. She spots the swarms right off so I don't think we have missed one.

Sick bees might abscond, but that is different from swarming.

By the way, I finally got around to making a swarm lure to hang in the apple tree. I hope they swarm again so I can see if it works. Black comb and lemon grass oil.


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## gww

AR1


> By the way, I finally got around to making a swarm lure to hang in the apple tree. I hope they swarm again so I can see if it works. Black comb and lemon grass oil.


I hope this works for you. I have a cedar that swarms from my hives like to land on. They pick two places and one is a little lower then the other. I put lemon grass oil on the low spot several time this year and my swarm picked the higher place anyway.

Russ made a russian scion and the bees still went highers. I have seen photos where they have worked for people and also have read in the old time books to put a branch in front of hives for the bees to land on when they swarm. 

So I say do it and then let us know how it goes for you. I hope it goes well for you.
Cheers
gww


----------



## deerslayer8153

This is my first year trapping. Built 9-5 frame traps and was a bit late getting them out. Put them out about the second week of March. So far I've caught 5 swarms in the 9 traps. This is pretty exciting!!


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## Gray Goose

Good results deer slayer.
Are you using old comb?
any scents?

there is time left so hopefully you get a few more.

GG


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## deerslayer8153

Gray Goose- yes I am using one frame of older comb, 2 new wax foundations and 2 empty frames with a wood strip at the top. They always start on the empty frames. I also use swarm commander and refresh it every 2 weeks.


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## Gray Goose

Well deer slayer you found the recipe so its working.
Thanks for the feedback

GG


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## GregB

Hmm, it feels as if this was the end of regular 2020 season - I guess it's been 1.5 months since I captured the first swarm of my season.
The late season swarms still may come - always 1-2 of those come along.

I have a couple of traps seemingly occupied by scouts - not an uncommon occurrence it seems.
These are probably caused by intercepted swarms somewhere.
Otherwise quiet.

I have to say this was my most successful swarm chasing season so far - 8 units (easily $1000 in dollar amount in package equivalent).
Still 6/8 trap success rate, which is plenty.
All the while I did not put much effort into this either.

Time to review the assets and plan for splitting and so on.


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## odfrank

I am again surprised how many baited swarms fail, 10 -15%. We had another one that had eggs a month ago, and failed upon last inspection.


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## GregB

odfrank said:


> I am again surprised how many baited swarms fail, 10 -15%. We had another one that had eggs a month ago, and failed upon last inspection.


But again why shouldn't they fail?
What is in the swarms that makes them totally fail proof?

As of yesterday checks, I think I have a swarm with a failing queen that maybe trying to re-queen itself.
Nothing really uncommon.


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## soarwitheagles

So far, in 2020, we only caught 10-15 swarms. This is by far the lowest numbers we have seen in years. I am wondering if it has something to do with the drought [Jan-Feb in our area was the lowest amount of rainfall in written history].

Some of the swarms were so small, I didn't even try to house them...just left them be.

We normally only place traps on our property and on rare occasion, in a nearby city.

This is a far cry from the year we were catching 5-10 swarms per day for a week or two, and totals of well over 50 per season. I remember years when massive swarms would land everywhere...on the ground, on the fence, in the traps, on tree limbs, etc. I remember the biggest challenge we had was we did not have enough boxes to house all the swarms and had to let them go!

We have done nothing different so it is not us...but I think it may have to do with the fact a large scale beekeeper nearby is no longer in business.

I am becoming more and more convinced that the 2-3 years of outrageous swarm catches were coming from a large scale bee operation nearby that was winding down...but then again...this year we also tested a new place where there are 5 large honeybee operations. I placed nearly 10 traps, convinced we were gonna catch 20+ within a couple of weeks...guess what? Only caught one swarm in two months! Really strange...sometimes I think I may never understand honeybees...

Swarm season here is pretty much over...

Good luck to everyone else still in swarm season!


----------



## JWPalmer

While it is disappointing that your catch rate has dropped significantly, you were able to take advantage of the situation at the time and grow an apiary faster than most could even imagine. What is your hive count at present?


----------



## Gray Goose

soarwitheagles said:


> So far, in 2020, we only caught 10-15 swarms. This is by far the lowest numbers we have seen in years. I am wondering if it has something to do with the drought [Jan-Feb in our area was the lowest amount of rainfall in written history].
> 
> Some of the swarms were so small, I didn't even try to house them...just left them be.
> 
> We normally only place traps on our property and on rare occasion, in a nearby city.
> 
> This is a far cry from the year we were catching 5-10 swarms per day for a week or two, and totals of well over 50 per season. I remember years when massive swarms would land everywhere...on the ground, on the fence, in the traps, on tree limbs, etc. I remember the biggest challenge we had was we did not have enough boxes to house all the swarms and had to let them go!
> 
> We have done nothing different so it is not us...but I think it may have to do with the fact a large scale beekeeper nearby is no longer in business.
> 
> I am becoming more and more convinced that the 2-3 years of outrageous swarm catches were coming from a large scale bee operation nearby that was winding down...but then again...this year we also tested a new place where there are 5 large honeybee operations. I placed nearly 10 traps, convinced we were gonna catch 20+ within a couple of weeks...guess what? Only caught one swarm in two months! Really strange...sometimes I think I may never understand honeybees...
> 
> Swarm season here is pretty much over...
> 
> Good luck to everyone else still in swarm season!


well you do need a source, if the commercial has gone then you may be in for an adjustment.

So the small ones, some of his many swarms may have found homes, smaller cavities.
If it is a swarm , I would still try to get it, maybe put them in a NUC.

10 swarms is still better than some/many, I am at 3 likely to be 5 or less for the year. is "normal" for here.

Maybe look for another commercial operation and try some trapping neer there.

GG


----------



## GregB

soarwitheagles said:


> I am becoming more and more convinced that the 2-3 years of outrageous swarm catches were coming from a large scale bee operation nearby that was winding down...but then again...this year we also tested a new place where there are 5 large honeybee operations.


I made my theory known on the source of your swarms.
Yes it was a large operation and it was different in certain ways.


----------



## soarwitheagles

JWPalmer said:


> While it is disappointing that your catch rate has dropped significantly, you were able to take advantage of the situation at the time and grow an apiary faster than most could even imagine. What is your hive count at present?


JW, yes, you are totally right in this matter. We went from one colony up past 200 in no time at all. Many, many of the swarms were monster swarms that could be split into 5 nucs. Then, JRG came over to our place and showed us how to do splits. Finally, we learned how to do the queen grafting, so our growth rate went off the charts. If we had sufficient wood-ware built [tops, bottoms, boxes and frames] I think we could have been well over 500 colonies. Two of those years we rapidly ran out of the wood-ware and simply had to stop catching the swarms! 

Our count at present? Well, I am painfully embarrassed to admit it! We began to experience horrific set backs, one after another:

1. Two years ago, a "professional" beekeeper [not JRG] came over and gave us this chemical from Mexico that was suppose to kill the mites...[Bovitraz]. Applied it exactly according to instructions and it either killed or severely damaged half of our bee colonies. I've never used it again. Now we only use the Oxivap and it is incredibly effective and doesn't hurt the honeybees.

2. Last year, we built up to 200+ colonies again...then, we lost 98%! We could not figure it out until too late. The symptoms: nearly every colony began to slowly decrease in numbers until not one bee was left, but massive honey and pollen and comb left in each box...we finally discovered it was yellowjacket subterranean wasps killing our queens throughout the winter. We have always had a challenge with these wasps and they have nearly always been in the colonies, but last year there were thousands upon thousands of them and we did not connect the dots until losing 196 colonies out of 200. We were thinking it was poison at the time.

3. This year, we went from 4 colonies up to 126 in a three month period. BUT, in the last 4 weeks, we have lost about 42 of them. This time to either starvation or robbing [no flow at all for 4 weeks now]. Presently I am mixing and installing gallon after gallon of sugar syrup as well as pollen sub and the loss rate had decreased radically. So today we stand about 85 colonies. We are hoping for the star thistle to bloom now, but if not, then we are probably doomed to lose more or continue to feed like crazy. I place half gallon bottles of sugar syrup twice a week, but after 1-2 weeks, they eat it all.

4. Another large yard I set up kept experiencing dwindling bee numbers for two years. Finally discovered though using a game trail camera it was large numbers of skunks raiding the yard, eating bees every night.

5. Finally, one year, with all our colonies in the almond orchards, a local rancher next to the almond orchard decided to spray round up on the fiercely blooming nearby mustard plants. After removing the bees after the almond bloom, nearly every colony weakened or died.

6. Some knuckle head, non-English speakers, set up a large bee yard a couple of hundred yards away from us last year, and his bees have robbed out many of our nucs.

So, $30,000 later and with lots of blood, sweat, tears and stings, I have really gotten my but kicked severely and repeatedly and now I am not so sure I should have gotten so deeply into this adventure.

My end goal was to run a pollination company with 1,000 colonies, then take the $250,000 proceeds and begin to create orphanages and schools in India and Nepal. Now my dream is utterly, nearly totally crushed. 



Gray Goose said:


> well you do need a source, if the commercial has gone then you may be in for an adjustment.
> 
> So the small ones, some of his many swarms may have found homes, smaller cavities.
> If it is a swarm , I would still try to get it, maybe put them in a NUC.
> 
> 10 swarms is still better than some/many, I am at 3 likely to be 5 or less for the year. is "normal" for here.
> 
> Maybe look for another commercial operation and try some trapping neer there.
> 
> GG


GG, we are thankful for all bees we have caught...just wish we didn't lose some many. Yes, I hear you on the small swarms. JRG came over last week and immediately recognized a small swarm [he even pointed out the queen to me]. The guy is amazing. I did not put them in a nuc box even though we have nearly 100 nuc boxes ready to go. With the robbing and everything, I simply did not think they could survive. I did take 10 swarm traps a few miles away to were there are 5 large bee operations. Only caught one swarm and I gave it to the property owner that let me place the traps. I did not take them over until May. Next year, we may take some over in March.



GregV said:


> I made my theory known on the source of your swarms.
> Yes it was a large operation and it was different in certain ways.


I am still not sure, but some people have told me the beekeeper in question had well over 10,000 colonies...so yeah, that was probably it!


----------



## GregB

soarwitheagles said:


> We have always had a challenge with these wasps and they have nearly always been in the colonies, but last year there were thousands upon thousands of them and we did not connect the dots until losing 196 colonies out of 200. We were thinking it was poison at the time.
> 
> 3. This year, we went from 4 colonies up to 126 in a three month period. BUT, in the last 4 weeks, we have lost about 42 of them.
> 
> I am still not sure, but some people have told me the beekeeper in question had well over 10,000 colonies...so yeah, that was probably it!


Soar,

Sorry to hear.
Easy come - easy go.
Same with me, but not in the hundreds, of course.

I doubt very much that the YJs killed off 196/200 units.
No way.
YJs can not take down a healthy strong colony (they can and will finish off a weak colony - that is true).
Look elsewhere.

If anything, I will say that you had a high concentration of highly mite-infested commercial swarms originating from (mis/un)-managed and highly concentrated source aka a dump-yard, as was proposed.

That alone could do you in.


----------



## soarwitheagles

GregV said:


> Soar,
> 
> Sorry to hear.
> Easy come - easy go.
> Same with me, but not in the hundreds, of course.
> 
> I doubt very much that the YJs killed off 196/200 units.
> No way.
> YJs can not take down a healthy strong colony (they can and will finish off a weak colony - that is true).
> Look elsewhere.
> 
> If anything, I will say that you had a high concentration of highly mite-infested commercial swarms originating from (mis/un)-managed and highly concentrated source aka a dump-yard, as was proposed.
> 
> That alone could do you in.


Greg,

Our mite counts last year were nearly zero. We meticulously treated every colony with Oxivap every 5th day for a total of 4 treatments and afterward, couldn't find a single mite.


----------



## GregB

soarwitheagles said:


> Greg,
> 
> Our mite counts last year were nearly zero. We meticulously treated every colony with Oxivap every 5th day for a total of 4 treatments and afterward, couldn't find a single mite.


Wow; then this is a very strange case.
Of course, you and I have similar mortality.

Still, not likely the YJs.
If you are next to intensively managed ag, it could be pesticide pressure too.


----------



## soarwitheagles

I thought I would post some pics of some of the swarms we caught this year...

Please notice some we caught on the ground or near ground level!


----------



## Fivej

Soar,what bad luck,but sounds like you are on top of it again. I caught one swarm this year in the one trap I put out. It's just for fun and observation and learning,but I was excited to get one. A side benefit for me is to get some comb drawn. After that,giving the swarm away. J


----------



## soarwitheagles

Here's a pic of one of our nuc yards.

And I included a pic of the swarm in a nearby city where I got burned after my smoker lit my truck on fire!

I am hoping to have much better success in the future. I tried to sell out this year, but it just did not feel right....so I am waiting one more year...

Funny thing is we only purchased one colony [years ago], and I think it failed, so all our bees are from local swarms.

Beautiful thing about it is some colonies have bees that are incredibly bright yellow, others are black like Carniolians, others are mixed.

This year, we did try grafting some cells from one of my friend's $1000 Caucasian queen. The Caucasian honeybee is very, very different than our honeybees and exhibit some really strange peculiarities:

1. Super black in color.
2. The darn queen looks like a black armored vehicle [am I am not joking]. I have never seen anything even remotely like it.
3. The propolis is absolutely insane [as in 5-10 times more bee glue that anything we have ever seen].
4. They are suppose to bring in most of the honey/pollen during the late summer.

Most of our grafts come from our strongest colonies that exhibit the best traits.


----------



## GregB

soarwitheagles said:


> The Caucasian honeybee is very, very different than our honeybees and exhibit some really strange peculiarities:
> 
> 1. Super black in color.
> 2. The darn queen looks like a black armored vehicle [am I am not joking]. I have never seen anything even remotely like it.
> 3. The propolis is absolutely insane [as in 5-10 times more bee glue that anything we have ever seen].
> 4. They are suppose to bring in most of the honey/pollen during the late summer.


1-3 points read like classic Gray Caucasian bee.
Unsure if #4 is true; rather it depends.

Where they are imported from - these bees are best working the weak and continuous flow (good at switching between sources).
So they are always finding something to pile on, where the Russians may not find much.
But the Russians may exploit the short and strong flow better.
#4 will depend on what your late summer is about.

PS: gotta tell, your nuc yard looks like a desert location, for bad or good;
where I am now is lush greenery and bloom is everywhere (and tropical T-Storms are daily).


----------



## GregB

soarwitheagles said:


> I thought I would post some pics of some of the swarms we caught this year...
> 
> Please notice some we caught on the ground or near ground level!
> 
> View attachment 56835
> View attachment 56837
> View attachment 56839
> View attachment 56841
> View attachment 56843


Great demo for our discussion of why putting up the traps excessively high is unnecessary (not to mention problematic).


----------



## soarwitheagles

GregV said:


> 1-3 points read like classic Gray Caucasian bee.
> Unsure if #4 is true; rather it depends.
> 
> Where they are imported from - these bees are best working the weak and continuous flow (good at switching between sources).
> So they are always finding something to pile on, where the Russians may not find much.
> But the Russians may exploit the short and strong flow better.
> #4 will depend on what your late summer is about.
> 
> PS: gotta tell, your nuc yard looks like a desert location, for bad or good;
> where I am now is lush greenery and bloom is everywhere (and tropical T-Storms are daily).


Greg,

I took our tractor and leveled and prepared this nuc yard area 3 months ago. Now I actually regret making the nuc yard in that location:

1. We have irrigated pasture nearby with afternoon shade and that would have worked MUCH better! Problem was our sheep kept knocking colonies over [they like to use the boxes and stands to scratch their back].
2. Much less human traffic there, so more prone to predators such as skunks, etc. I keep seeing a red tailed fox out there nearly every morning...but don't think he is eating bees.
3. Temps are much greater [20+ F] compared to the irrigated pasture with the afternoon shade.
4. Three years ago I cut down a large 120 ft. tall 4ft diameter eucalyptus tree that would have provided perfect afternoon shade in this location. At the time, I wanted full sun for full size boxes...now I realize it was a mistake!

Not to worry...we are presently in the final stages of negotiating a piece of property that is surrounded most of the year with blooming alfalfa on two sides, corn on one side, and a large vegetable farm on the other side. Best of all, a year round creek that will provide the water is less that a mile away. If everything works according to the plans, we will begin moving the colonies in July. We are hoping it will be a game changer for the honeybees.

PS I sure will miss the eucalyptus trees! Presently we are surrounded by euc forest...


----------



## gwb

I have seven traps. Yesterday I caught two swarms in the same traps that I previously caught swarms in. That makes a total of four swarms that I trapped one one swarm that my came off of one of my neighbors hives. I would have never thought trapping bees were so much fun.


----------



## soarwitheagles

gwb said:


> I have seven traps. Yesterday I caught two swarms in the same traps that I previously caught swarms in. That makes a total of four swarms that I trapped one one swarm that my came off of one of my neighbors hives. I would have never thought trapping bees were so much fun.


gwb,

Please show us some pics!


----------



## gwb




----------



## gwb

Sorry not the best pictures


----------



## gwb

Caught swarm number 5 today. I forgot to get a picture of this one.


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## GregB

Am still 6 for 8.

At least in a couple of places there are scouts that settled in them for good (but no swarm).
So, this is a pretty typical case that I see.
It feels as if few scouts really do commit to the trap but the swarm never arrives (most likely got intercepted).
And so these lost bees just stay there and guard the trap for themselves.


----------



## GregB

Twice over the last two weeks now I was expecting a backyard swarm to land.
And it did not happen.
Someone somewhere is getting better at capturing their own swarms.


----------



## GregB

7/8.
Free standing hive.
Pretty sure I caught my own swarm that I lost (just found out tonight - think they jumped the ship either today or yesterday).
Which is just fine and does count.


----------



## bjorn

It looks like I have my 2nd swarm of the year in a bait hive in the woods. The first was on June 2 and in the same location. The first was moved 5 miles away for a few days, then brought back to the apiary on our property(several acres away). There were stragglers who returned to the trap and have been a few in and out ever since. But, yesterday my wife noticed heavy traffic. I know it's late for swarms up here, not sure when I should pull the traps.


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## Gray Goose

I had 7 traps out and caught 3 swarms, one trap did catch 2 so the spot matters.
I have pulled 3 back as I needed some frames of comb, will get the rest back prior to the end of the month.

3 is about my norm, for a year. each was caught after a heat spell..

GG


----------



## bjorn

Gray Goose said:


> I had 7 traps out and caught 3 swarms, one trap did catch 2 so the spot matters.
> I have pulled 3 back as I needed some frames of comb, will get the rest back prior to the end of the month.
> 
> 3 is about my norm, for a year. each was caught after a heat spell..
> 
> GG


Do you typically pull them all by the end of July? I'm in norther IL, so likely comparable weather.


----------



## Gray Goose

bjorn said:


> Do you typically pull them all by the end of July? I'm in norther IL, so likely comparable weather.


bjorn,
I have 3 things going on at this time.
winter preps starting
getting ready for extraction and honey season.
the time it takes the bees to get enough winter stores is getting dicy.

so for 1 or 2 one could feed or give stores from another hive.
As I expand my early NUCs into full size hives, I need the frames and the boxes  I use a 10 frame deep as my trap. I would rather all my comb be on hives by fall.
I notice that ants and such are slowly invading, I did use a 1/2 inch mesh this year and did not have mouse nests in the traps,so at some point the combs can get wrecked.
I also "prefer" the prime swarm with the over wintered queen, later swarms can be improperly cared for packages, less value to me but they would be fine for a starting person.

If you can feed them you can leave them longer, some what what your schedule is. 
I have not caught a "quality" swarm from Aug 1st forward in a long while, so they seem to calm down and work on winter stores by then.

you should try all summer to see what your location offers. I tend to do the first 2/3 of the summer trapping, then the last 1/3 is extraction and winter prep.

GG


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## bjorn

I am definitely a small-time beekeeper in my 8th season. I have 3 hives from packages this spring. I recognize that package quality/success is a completely different conversation. My main reason to bait is to hopefully catch a feral colony or at least vary the genetics in my apiary. I have 8 traps out, but only one has attracted swarms this season. My traps are a deep box with one medium old brood comb and 9 empty frames. This is only my 4th swarm in 3 seasons. Any bees, especially free bees, are a learning opportunity for me at this point.


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## Gray Goose

agree free bees are a learning experience, I would think for you, keep them out till end of Aug.

yes they are some what slimm pickings here as well.

keep up the trying, you will get better.


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## GregB

bjorn said:


> Do you typically pull them all by the end of July? I'm in norther IL, so likely comparable weather.


I have caught swarms in late August and still wintered them.
So have few traps out that late.
But, due to expansion projects, most traps are now needed in the nuc department.


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## bjorn

It's been a fun learning curve for sure. The first year my traps were just old bodies with one drawn comb. The bees moved in and started building some absolutely beautiful comb hanging from the lid. The boxes didn't seal well, so I was on a ladder at night stapling screen to every crack and crevice they could escape from so I could move them. I was only able to salvage a small amount of the comb and hang it in frames with rubber bands. I should have shot video... I'm sure it was quite comical to watch. Most of the bees just returned to the trap site the next day. Anyway, I now use frames, sealed boxes except for a closable(screened) entrance and relocate 5 miles away for a week or so. Moving goes much smoother now. I still get stragglers, but nothing like before. 
Always learning...


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## GregB

9/8.















6/9 - caught on the ground level.
So, yes, why climb.

I don't really have time to monkey about re-hiving this log hive - will let them be just like they are. 
Whatever happens - the logs are supposed to be superior and all that.
The walls are two two inch wood; there is foam in the lid.
These bees should be set.


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## GregB

September 2nd today.
I say the swarm season is over. 

9/8 is the final tally of trapped swarms for me.

11 swarms collected in total.

The only small negative - one of the traps I kept out through the August became moth infested and they largely destroyed the combs. 
Should have checker-boarded (comb-blank-comb). 
But I just filled it up with old combs - bad idea in August.


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## crab414

Sounds like you had a good season! I trapped six and collected three from the trees.
This is my first year, so I don't know if this is good or not. Our summer has been hot and dry and I have had to feed all my splits and swarms just to get them to grow.


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## Gray Goose

nice Greg and Crab414,
11, and 9 is a good amount.
I did hive one yesterday but it was a fluke IMO and will need a lot of help.
this last one has me at 4, almost 1 per month all season. Not many bees in the trees by my trap sites, Most if not all came from "managed hives"

edit on Rate,, 5 traps out 1 did catch 2, 1 from the trees and 1 trap caught 1 2 traps did NADA

GG


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## odfrank

I thought it was over a long time ago but we have a lot of bees in the top of a pile of dead brood chambers. No eggs when we checked a few days ago, so not sure what it is. I got about 36, but none at two sites where I needed one or two to replace losses. And the usual 10-15% loss out of those. So probably 30 that will go into winter. We Apivar them as soon as we find them. We have not harvested all sites yet, so might be surprised to find another one or two late incomers.


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## clong

10/11 for me this year. My previous best was 4.

One interesting catch was one from a trap that had been up for 4 years with no nibbles. The host called, saying he was seeing lots of bees in his pool this spring and asked why I was so excited. 

It sounds like this year was a good one for many. On a somewhat related note, I've seen more splattered bugs on the windshield this year. Not like the old days, but more than usual.


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## Gray Goose

hmm more bugs
maybe less cars on the road splattering bugs, means more bugs survive. "thanks to covid"
Should be a good year for bug eaters then as well.

some lawn service places were shut down for a while, some golf courses were also shut down for a while.
some builders were also shut down, I see some building sites around here all weedy and over grown, nothing the dozer cannot fix but could add to the flower pool this year. for me the heat in mid summer was the issue for 3 or the 5 sites I have.

GG


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## GregB

crab414 said:


> Sounds like you had a good season! I trapped six and collected three from the trees.
> This is my first year, so I don't know if this is good or not. Our summer has been hot and dry and I have had to feed all my splits and swarms just to get them to grow.


9 is very good.
Last year I only caught 2.


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## GregB

Gray Goose said:


> hmm more bugs........
> 
> GG


I say COVID is good for Nature.
Less pollution, less waste, less poison sprinkled around.
I hate it but I love it too.
LOL


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## garlorco

Finishing with 7 swarms. Of that 4 were from my own hives, ugh! I lost one on transport, the comb detached from bottom of the frame and flopped to bottom of the box. Not sure if the queen was killed or just fled. Never found her. Just caught another swarm a week ago and working getting it into shape for the winter. Love doing this. Turning out to be my favorite part of beekeeping although it's a lot of work.
Congrats everyone!


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## GregB

garlorco said:


> .....
> Congrats everyone!


Indeed.
Fun and gainful season (after the painful winter).


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## crab414

Now, if we could just get some rain for the goldenrod flow, I could stop feeding 😀.


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## GregB

crab414 said:


> Now, if we could just get some rain for the goldenrod flow, I could stop feeding 😀.


And we just did - get some rain.
Unfortunately, most my hives are bone dry as is (even strong ones are light).
The drought over the last 5-6 weeks did the damage.
It will be a year of sugar honey.


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## crab414

I started hoarding suger this summer for fall feeding, 500#s just in case there was a run on it. I've got 80#s left, but all my deeps look good for fall.
I've been watching Landi Simone on You Tube and copying her approach. She gets her winter configuration up to weight before the fall flow and then harvests the rest


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## AR1

Zero caught in traps. 6 (I think) shaken out of trees in my back yard.
I think I only lost one swarm of my bees.


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## John Davis

One trap placed, 4 swarms caught, same location not in a bee yard all season.


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## Gray Goose

John Davis said:


> One trap placed, 4 swarms caught, same location not in a bee yard all season.


John,
Did the bees look the same? Like from the same hive? or were some dark some light etc?

just wondering

GG


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## AR1

AR1 said:


> I think I only lost one swarm of my bees.


Which hopefully is living wild in the woods at my dad's farm!


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## GregB

AR1 said:


> Which hopefully is living wild in the woods at my dad's farm!


How old are the woods?
Near me there are pretty old oak groves with many cavities (to be fair, I did not specifically look for bee suitable holes).
Think of it, I very well could find a big enough hole in a tree and attract bees to it the next season.
I very well could do it and establish a bee tree.

So far - the swarms prefer my traps.


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## Fivej

Caught one in my swarm trap and one in the wild. The swarm trap was very interesting to observe. Excitement followed by disappointment when no swarm followed the scouts. This happened over and over.
Then one day it became obvious that a swarm moved in. Unfortunately, I didn't get to watch this. They fooled me too many times so I wasn't keeping a close watch.
I gave this hive to my daughter and it has built up nicely. J


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## AR1

GregV said:


> How old are the woods?
> Near me there are pretty old oak groves with many cavities (to be fair, I did not specifically look for bee suitable holes).
> Think of it, I very well could find a big enough hole in a tree and attract bees to it the next season.
> I very well could do it and establish a bee tree.
> 
> So far - the swarms prefer my traps.


Mixed ages, it's been harvested for Walnut twice in my lifetime. Plenty of large old trees and dead trees. Plus lots of old farm buildings that might offer habitat.


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## crab414

Number ten moved in today. 
I had a box in the bee yard that I was storing new acorn medium frames. The box had a feed bag inner cover, an extra crown board incorrectly on and no cover. The pieces of styrofoam are to cover the wasp trap from rain.
These don't look like my bees either. They are bigger and have yellow hair around they're thoraxes. Any idea what kind? My bees are a lot darker and this morning I was checking my mite drops and didn't see any signs.


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## Cobbler

Well, I am late to the discussion, but figure I might as well log my swarm count for 2020.

I think Covid was good for swarms. I post an ad every year on craigslist, and typically get one or two calls. This year I had a dozen captures from calls. I figure everyone is home working, having their morning coffee out on the patio and noticing things they usually miss while they’re at work.

I also started swarm trapping this year. I put out 15 traps. All of these were new wood blow torched and rubbed down with beeswax on the inside and baited with lemon grass oil in a sandwich bag. I only had 10 frames of Nice black brood comb. The other five traps got very old, dried up, comb with no smell that I collected from a colony that had been on the outside of a tree, but died maybe 3 years earlier. I ended up catching 10 swarms in the traps. All of these were in the traps with brood comb. I didn’t catch anything in any box without brood comb. That was the most important thing I learned.

as others have said, when you find a good spot, you have to keep going back there. I caught three swarms in the same tree.

another thing I learned is that beers may be confused by the lemon grass oil. One of the swarms I caught was in a box which had just recently been baited. They built seven rows of comb on the bottom of the box, rather than moving in. Another swarm started doing the same thing, but eventually did move inside, abandoning several small rows of comb on the outside, underside. I think you have to be real careful about messing up the scent communication within the cavity.

I found that height made little difference. I caught swarms at all heights, but struggled to hang and retrieve traps in high spots. I don’t think height is worth the effort.

I found also that very few people even notice the traps. I placed all of my traps in the wetland areas that crisscross the Portland Oregon area. I have a very short note with my phone number on each box. I received a total of one call. A nice guy called to tell me that I had bees in my box. Other than that, the only other sign that anyone had noticed my box was a marker graffiti tag on one box. I returned a month or so later to find that the lid had been removed and frames tossed around. This particular box was very low to the ground and honestly, it was probably in a teenager’s pot smoking hide out.

One other observation - I had always thought that there were far more swarms happening than we ever notice. I was amazed how small some swarms could be. I caught two swarms each about the size of a golf ball. this is the kind of event that would go completely unnoticed unless you were very close to the congregation area. I was amazed that such a small colony could even be viable.

anyway, I caught the trapping bug. I built another 7 traps, so 22 will go out this year.


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## Gray Goose

Cobbler said:


> Well, I am late to the discussion, but figure I might as well log my swarm count for 2020.
> 
> I think Covid was good for swarms. I post an ad every year on craigslist, and typically get one or two calls. This year I had a dozen captures from calls. I figure everyone is home working, having their morning coffee out on the patio and noticing things they usually miss while they’re at work.
> 
> I also started swarm trapping this year. I put out 15 traps. All of these were new wood blow torched and rubbed down with beeswax on the inside and baited with lemon grass oil in a sandwich bag. I only had 10 frames of Nice black brood comb. The other five traps got very old, dried up, comb with no smell that I collected from a colony that had been on the outside of a tree, but died maybe 3 years earlier. I ended up catching 10 swarms in the traps. All of these were in the traps with brood comb. I didn’t catch anything in any box without brood comb. That was the most important thing I learned.
> 
> as others have said, when you find a good spot, you have to keep going back there. I caught three swarms in the same tree.
> 
> another thing I learned is that beers may be confused by the lemon grass oil. One of the swarms I caught was in a box which had just recently been baited. They built seven rows of comb on the bottom of the box, rather than moving in. Another swarm started doing the same thing, but eventually did move inside, abandoning several small rows of comb on the outside, underside. I think you have to be real careful about messing up the scent communication within the cavity.
> 
> I found that height made little difference. I caught swarms at all heights, but struggled to hang and retrieve traps in high spots. I don’t think height is worth the effort.
> 
> I found also that very few people even notice the traps. I placed all of my traps in the wetland areas that crisscross the Portland Oregon area. I have a very short note with my phone number on each box. I received a total of one call. A nice guy called to tell me that I had bees in my box. Other than that, the only other sign that anyone had noticed my box was a marker graffiti tag on one box. I returned a month or so later to find that the lid had been removed and frames tossed around. This particular box was very low to the ground and honestly, it was probably in a teenager’s pot smoking hide out.
> 
> One other observation - I had always thought that there were far more swarms happening than we ever notice. I was amazed how small some swarms could be. I caught two swarms each about the size of a golf ball. this is the kind of event that would go completely unnoticed unless you were very close to the congregation area. I was amazed that such a small colony could even be viable.
> 
> anyway, I caught the trapping bug. I built another 7 traps, so 22 will go out this year.


your observation of 
"All of these were in the traps with brood comb. I didn’t catch anything in any box without brood comb. That was the most important thing I learned. "

Is the same as Mine. I use a couple of the darkest combs I have from dead outs.

as long as you enjoy the trapping, carry on.
I agree the high placement and removal with bees can be a challenge, be carefull a swarm is not worth a fall from a ladder.

GG


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## AR1

Soon time to start a new 2021 thread. Looking forward to this year trapping, though 2020 was a bust.


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## jjayf

Cobbler said:


> Well, I am late to the discussion, but figure I might as well log my swarm count for 2020.
> 
> I think Covid was good for swarms. I post an ad every year on craigslist, and typically get one or two calls. This year I had a dozen captures from calls. I figure everyone is home working, having their morning coffee out on the patio and noticing things they usually miss while they’re at work.
> 
> I also started swarm trapping this year. I put out 15 traps. All of these were new wood blow torched and rubbed down with beeswax on the inside and baited with lemon grass oil in a sandwich bag. I only had 10 frames of Nice black brood comb. The other five traps got very old, dried up, comb with no smell that I collected from a colony that had been on the outside of a tree, but died maybe 3 years earlier. I ended up catching 10 swarms in the traps. All of these were in the traps with brood comb. I didn’t catch anything in any box without brood comb. That was the most important thing I learned.
> 
> as others have said, when you find a good spot, you have to keep going back there. I caught three swarms in the same tree.
> 
> another thing I learned is that beers may be confused by the lemon grass oil. One of the swarms I caught was in a box which had just recently been baited. They built seven rows of comb on the bottom of the box, rather than moving in. Another swarm started doing the same thing, but eventually did move inside, abandoning several small rows of comb on the outside, underside. I think you have to be real careful about messing up the scent communication within the cavity.
> 
> I found that height made little difference. I caught swarms at all heights, but struggled to hang and retrieve traps in high spots. I don’t think height is worth the effort.
> 
> I found also that very few people even notice the traps. I placed all of my traps in the wetland areas that crisscross the Portland Oregon area. I have a very short note with my phone number on each box. I received a total of one call. A nice guy called to tell me that I had bees in my box. Other than that, the only other sign that anyone had noticed my box was a marker graffiti tag on one box. I returned a month or so later to find that the lid had been removed and frames tossed around. This particular box was very low to the ground and honestly, it was probably in a teenager’s pot smoking hide out.
> 
> One other observation - I had always thought that there were far more swarms happening than we ever notice. I was amazed how small some swarms could be. I caught two swarms each about the size of a golf ball. this is the kind of event that would go completely unnoticed unless you were very close to the congregation area. I was amazed that such a small colony could even be viable.
> 
> anyway, I caught the trapping bug. I built another 7 traps, so 22 will go out this year.



I'm pretty close to you in Olympia, and travel to Tualitin weekly. This will be my first year trying to catch swarms and I am encouraged with your results! Thanks for posting. Were most of your swarms from populated areas around Portland? I am looking to see if I can find some survivor ferals a bit out off town myself.


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## Cobbler

jjayf said:


> I'm pretty close to you in Olympia, and travel to Tualitin weekly. This will be my first year trying to catch swarms and I am encouraged with your results! Thanks for posting. Were most of your swarms from populated areas around Portland? I am looking to see if I can find some survivor ferals a bit out off town myself.


I put 2 traps in more rural farm areas but didn’t catch anything in those. Of course these were traps without brood comb, so I’m not sure that is a worthwhile data point.

The rest of my traps were in suburban neighborhood areas. I was also surprised how populated some of the areas were that I was called to collect swarms in. There are tons of wild bees living right in our neighborhoods.

One thing that really makes sense to me is locating traps in places you frequent. I had several traps close by that were fun to check. Others were too far and too inconvenient to check often. This year I’ll keep all of my traps along the routes I travel in a week. Usually I ride my bike when I’m checking. This actually saves time as I can use the nature trails and boardwalks.


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## soarwitheagles

We only caught about 10 swarms for all of 2020. It was kinda disappointing for me. In years past, we were catching 5-10 swarms per day during the height of the swarm season. I remember one year we had to stop catching swarms because we ran out of boxes to hive em' in. That was a nice problem to have! My best day was hanging 5 traps at midnight, and I had 5 separate monster swarms by noon the next day. Even had some friends/workers over who got to see a real live swarm arrive...and they loved it.

Another thing I noticed was that all swarms caught in 2020 were mutts...in years past we were catching swarms that were all Carniolians, all Italians, all Russians, etc. I distinctly remember one swarm had the brightest yellow honeybees I have ever seen anywhere! They were so beautiful!

Things have changed dramatically for us here...it simply is not what it used to be...

Soar


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## Gray Goose

Cobbler,

I see wisdom is seeping into your trapping process.

"One thing that really makes sense to me is locating traps in places you frequent. I had several traps close by that were fun to check. Others were too far and too inconvenient to check often. This year I’ll keep all of my traps along the routes I travel in a week. "

Observant or nosey friends make even better places, I have 2 Aunts that will call me with in 48hr of a swarm landing, one even reports traffic, I have the trap within good view of her garden, these I do not even *need* to check.

I do the same with Small Apiaries,, hmmm where do I now go any way...

GG


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## Cobbler

Thanks GG. That’s right about having other people keep an eye on a trap. I have a coworker who calls me to grab a swarm nearly every year. She lives a ways out. This year I put a trap on her property and was called out to collect a swarm in her bush. There was a lot of scout activity at the trap, but, bird in the hand and all that. A couple of weeks later she called to let me know that the trap was occupied.

Last year when I went on swarm calls where people talked about this not being the first time, I asked whether they’d like to host a honeybee “rescue station” next year, so I will have a few of these free watchers this year.


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## GregB

Cobbler said:


> One thing that really makes sense to me is locating traps in places you frequent.


In 2020 ALL (but one) of my traps were directly on my bee yards.
In fact, I kept most of the swarms directly on the spot where then landed.
No more remote traps for me - just no time for that.

I don't know your situation, but consider keeping the bees permanently exactly where you catch them. There are pluses and minuses in that of course, as always.


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## Cobbler

GregV said:


> In 2020 ALL (but one) of my traps were directly on my bee yards.
> In fact, I kept most of the swarms directly on the spot where then landed.
> No more remote traps for me - just no time for that.


I’m glad to hear that. I have heard that bees don’t like to settle in close to the original hive location. - although there are plenty of stories of swarms taking residence in empty equipment in the same yard. 

I have bothered my neighbors numerous times with swarms cast from my hives. Not a big deal, I just go and collect them. But, it would be a real problem if my bees caused a big, expensive, inconvenient cutout problem. I’m better at preventing swarms now, but I’d still like to have another line of defense against irritating my neighbors.

I will definitely be setting up unused equipment with lures on my property this year.


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## GregB

Cobbler said:


> I’m glad to hear that. I have heard that bees don’t like to settle in close to the original hive location. - although there are plenty of stories of swarms taking residence in empty equipment in the same yard.


This is NOT really about catching your own swarms (your own swarms you should be able to mostly prevent).
It is more about attracting *outside *swarms to the places convenient to you.

Next season, not only will I be setting out the traps.
I will be also be setting out ALL unused dark combs and frames - just put them outside onto sunny and windy and high places. As soon as it is warm enough, all the spare combs will be stored directly on my backyard porch and in the open - as a bee attractant and moth prevention (both).

Have done some of this in 2020 - very pleased.
Of course, I had swarm traps sitting right next to the old frames stacked outside.


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## Tigger19687

I had 2 hives of 1 deep each out in my yard. One on top of the shed in the flight path, hoped one would stop there. nope.


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## JWPalmer

Cobbler said:


> I asked whether they’d like to host a honeybee “rescue station” next year


Love the terminology! Good idea getting others to watch the traps too. I built seven, gave away two, and have three left. If you do the math, you will realize that I have forgotten where two of them are located.


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## AR1

I had a lot of boxes sitting out last year around my house, and a lot of swarms from the back yard hives. None of the boxes got much scout attention.


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## 123989

JWPalmer said:


> Love the terminology! Good idea getting others to watch the traps too. I built seven, gave away two, and have three left. If you do the math, you will realize that I have forgotten where two of them are located.


LoL, I know what you mean. I may write mine down this year.


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## Cobbler

fadder said:


> LoL, I know what you mean. I may write mine down this year.


Most people can remember four things. If you have more traps than that, you better write down the locations. That will also give you a nice starting point for recording the last time you checked the trap, which may be useful if you are interested in knowing how long the swarm has been there or which traps have not been checked in a while.


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