# Can a noob take care of 60 hives?



## Haraga (Sep 12, 2011)

Organic honey? I say go for it. I think you should start with 100 hives.


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## 707tothe907 (Mar 20, 2014)

Do yourself a favor. Start with 2-4 hives. After one year you'll learn more thn we could ever describe. After that one year see if you're ready to handle even 20+.

I will say though, hopefully you aren't surrounded by only almonds, because the bees need a lot more natural forage then what you're probably willing to plant.

And lastly, you have a lot of reading to start doing.


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## Dominic (Jul 12, 2013)

A single person can manage a few hundred hives on his own. That being said, that comes with experience.

It does seem like a lot to start out with, though, to me. However, bees aren't like dairy cows, you don't need to work them twice a day. If you neglect them, you are likely to get more swarming, lesser yields, robbing, and higher mortality. But not total loss. Most of the investment are in the equipment, and not the bees themselves, so unless your budget is really tight none of that is really dramatic as the bees make you save on pollination costs. And as it'd be difficult to compromise on the issue (I doubt a local beekeeper would want to place his hives right next to yours for pollination?), it could be a reasonable target. You are likely to make mistakes, however, and they might just cost you 60 times more than if you had just one hive. But on the other hand, if you have many hives, odds are that even if you do some things wrong, some of them will thrive regardless.

And though I don't know what your area looks like, an almond orchard doesn't sound like a good place to install 60 hives year-round, you'd need to find some other apiaries.


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

there is no organic honey in the us. you are in for quite an education.


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## jbraun (Nov 13, 2013)

I agree with 707. Start with 2 and see how you do. I have been keeping bees for 3 seasons now. I'm probably a slow learner so you may do better than me. I'm just this year starting to get a grip on the seemingly overwhelming choices that you need to make. In my club of about 150 people about 10% are well seasoned and competent beekeepers. The rest of us ask lots of questions of them then make our choices.

The reason there is no organic honey in the USA is mostly semantics. Bees forage over to wide of an area to fall within the guideline of the organic community. The best we can do is call our honey raw and natural. That being said there's lots of honey sold at organic stores.

Good luck on your choices.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

beeware10 said:


> there is no organic honey in the us. ......


He's in Spain........but I'm not sure he can get organic honey there either.........


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## rookie2531 (Jul 28, 2014)

I don't know if you plan on buying nuc or packages, but if packages you will definitely have to feed to get them started and probably even if you have nucs. You should start with smaller number as you don't know how many hives your area will support. And unless you plant acres upon acres of flowers, there are trees that support more bees per area. I would see if the area would support 15-20 hives for first and second year, because first year you really won't know because you will be feeding to get that comb drawn.


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## vdotmatrix (Apr 5, 2014)

In a couple of years or even after , and I mean AFTER the first year. There are so many things you can learn from a book, but seeing it in a book and living it , well you get it...In answer to your question NO WAY unless you have a few mentors..you must understand and recognize what you are seeing when you look at a frame of bees, brood pattern, recognize pests, mite counts and did I say pests.....when to feed, what to feed when to treat.....


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

If you have lots of interest,lots of time and a strong back...or folks that can do the work for you you could manage...especially if you don't need to break even. However if you will be doing all the work yourself, are trying to hold down another full time job, need to pay attention to cash flow, have physical restrictions or family that has no interest in keeping bees start with way less. I work, am older with health issues and can't sink my life savings into bees yet found 15 hives a lot of fun.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

Can a noob take care of 60 hives? Not right away.
Is this even an amount a single man can take care of? yes with experience, like a few years or more.
Should I start with a baby amount like 10 hives? that's a better idea.

buying 6o hives without having kept bees before is crazy. It also requires an investment that might turn into a expensive pile of firewood if you don't like bees after getting them, or they keep dying off, or you don't have the time for them, or........
60 is doable after a few years of working, say, 10 hives sucessfully as part of your overall business plan.
the learning curve is steep.


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## Dominic (Jul 12, 2013)

Different people learn at different rates. It also mostly depends on the time and effort you put into it. If you follow classes, read books, attend conferences, speak with other beekeepers, join a club, ask questions on forums, and so on, then I do not think it's necessary to start with just two hives. I started with 8, made splits to 16 on the first year. I could have had more, but I had a budget to respect and worked full time. On the second year, I grew to 80 colonies. Again, I could have handled more. Only you really know yourself, your limits. There's no hard rule that applies to everyone.

In my mind, two is for people who never intend to grow, hobbyists. I strongly encourage those who intend to grow to start off with at least 4. One has more chances of screwing everything up with few hives than with many. Plus, with more hives one has, the more learning opportunities one has. If you want hives to pollinate your orchards, you can't afford to take 5 years to reach your target apiary size.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

I started with a dozen and only managed that because I worked for a commercial guy briefly and picked his brain.I was at 75 my third year and at 300 within six years from starting. Start with ten and spend substantial time reading and asking questions all winter. Can't you find someone to put bees on your orchard and learn from him?


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## Paulemar (Aug 28, 2013)

I don't think so! As a newbee myself who has spent tons of hours in study, meetings, and youtube videos, I wouldn't consider 60 hives as do able right away. There's so much to learn on how to handle a couple of hives before you can do it on more hives than that. There will be so many things that you need to know how to recognize and take care of "NOW" while in your apiary. I agree with others, start with 2 hives, bring those along successfully, do some splits to increase your numbers. Learn to take care of those, do some more splits and before you know it you will have 2+ years of experience, a bunch of hives and then realize that you still have a lot to learn. However, you may be able to struggle through it successfully if you work hard at it. I figure it will be 5 years before I become an acceptably "somewhat competent" beekeeper. And that is only because I have a really good support system and people willing to help available in my area. 
Depending on how old your almond trees are, perhaps your bee learning can grow along with your almond trees. I wish you much success.


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## Haraga (Sep 12, 2011)

You can do sixty but I think you should have 100.


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## lazy shooter (Jun 3, 2011)

Louri Miller could have done 60 her second year. Like someone above stated, it depends on the person. Louri could do a hundred or a thousand and jump tall buildings. It's an individual thing.

So could Vance.


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## HIVE+ (Jan 4, 2012)

Something else to consider is whether the hives get built up by the almond bloom. In what month do almonds bloom in Spain?


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Of course the OP can take care of 60 hives, but can he take GOOD care of 60 hives. I grew up in a commercial beekeeping family, had less than 10 hives for many years, then jumped back to commercial levels one year. If the OP has the money, and the tech support, he COULD do 60, but a "man has got to know his limitations".

crazy Roland


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

I think the critical piece of information that is missing here, unless I missed it, is how many acres of almonds does the OP have in the orchard. That would dictate how many hives would be hypothetically needed. Let's back up and start with the basic premiss.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

Nabber86 said:


> I think the critical piece of information that is missing here, unless I missed it, is how many acres of almonds does the OP have in the orchard. That would dictate how many hives would be hypothetically needed. Let's back up and start with the basic premiss.


"According to my calcs I would need around 60 hives, but I've never been a beekeeper."


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

Dominic said:


> Different people learn at different rates. It also mostly depends on the time and effort you put into it. If you follow classes, read books, attend conferences, speak with other beekeepers, join a club, ask questions on forums, and so on, then I do not think it's necessary to start with just two hives.


I agree . Based on my experience , I started with 50 hives in the fall of 2009 , the major variables that determine my success are : motivation , time available , resilience , learning and an available experienced guidance from my father. Not forgetting that to manage 60 hives are needed investments in logistics, some of which we are not conscious in the beginning and end up making the beginning more costly than anticipated.

Another different question is whether 60 hives will be sufficient or , on the contrary , excessive to achieve the desired pollination. I think the OP needs to give us more specifics data so we can help .


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

707tothe907 said:


> Do yourself a favor. Start with 2-4 hives. After one year you'll learn more thn we could ever describe. After that one year see if you're ready to handle even 20+.
> 
> I will say though, hopefully you aren't surrounded by only almonds, because the bees need a lot more natural forage then what you're probably willing to plant.
> 
> And lastly, you have a lot of reading to start doing.



Spot on CAL-AK.


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

beeware10 said:


> there is no organic honey in the us.



Say what? I see it on the store shelves all the time.:scratch:


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

There's no usda certified organic honey.


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

Honey-4-All said:


> Say what? I see it on the store shelves all the time.:scratch:


Maybe it was imported from Portugal. In Portugal there is properly certified organic honey .


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

JRG13 said:


> There's no usda certified organic honey.


Willing to explain further? 

Is that because no one does it? Because the USDA will not certify any? Because its not "producible" in the US?


??????


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## whiskers (Aug 28, 2011)

Complete guesswork here, but you mention that you are growing an almond orchard. One thus guesses that the trees aren't very big yet and won't require as much in the way of pollination as they may in future years. If so why not start with a smaller number of hives, say 10 or 15, probably as many as you actually need now and enough to learn on. Then as the need arises you can split them to make increase.

Good luck in your endeavor.
Bill


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## Snowhitsky (Mar 1, 2014)

Dani,

How much free time do you have? Are you a full-time farmer or like me look after the almond orchard in your spare time?

Have you considered asking a local beekeeper to pollinate your almonds? You might be able to do a deal with him to pollinate your trees in the short term for a fee while you build up your own apiary (buying hives off him for example) and beekeeping experience. If you have spare time, he might even mentor you in exchange for free labour.

I would seek help from local beekeepers as your land will most likely not be able to support many hives if you plough it or use herbicide to keep the weeds down. Unless there is uncultivated land nearby or you can move your hives to pasture in the (transhumancia) your bees may struggle to survive. Castilian winters are also quite harsh and you will need a minimum of knowledge to prepare the hives for the cold weather.

It is feasible but I would think about it carefully before you invest that kind of money in hardware and bees.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Surely, you can! But the education is really steep in the beginning.
If the trees are already blooming then test out your area with 10 hives. Then if one season is
doable then add another 20 hives. 30 hives will quickly grow into 60. This is assuming that
everything works out nicely without the varroa there? If one hive per acre then you have 
60 acres of trees, right? If the trees are not planted yet then you still have more time to learn about beekeeping. 
Then I suggest to start with at least 2-4 hives for this learning process. 
Some youtube vids would be nice too. Do a search on Michael Palmer to start. Good luck!


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Put an observation hive in the living room. This will let you see what's going on in your other hives and teach you the most in the least time. Meanwhile get what you want. But remember the more hives you have the bigger and more costly the mistakes... All in all, beekeeping works best if you try experiments on a small scale and work your way up slowly. You may find you wish you had different equipment but you've already invested in a lot of equipment you now wish you didn't have...


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## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

Depending on how far your flower fields are from your almonds, you might be better off just keeping the bees in one place. They work a 3 mile radius and the little ones really hate changing schools in the middle of the year.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Dani said:


> My plan is to settle them in a dedicated field full of rosemary and other flowers, I can plant dandelions and bee-friendly stuff, and add some kind of fountain for water source, and such ideas to make "organic" honey.


It is my understanding that Almonds are one of the most heavily applied pesticides for fruits and vegetables. You might want to check with someone keeping bees in your area as to how difficult it is. You cannot grow enough of anything to support your bees. The forage has to be there already or you must feed.

You can do 60 hives right off the bat if you have enough money to support your hobby. It will not be sustainable until you learn what you need to know.


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## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

snl said:


> He's in Spain........but I'm not sure he can get organic honey there either.........


There are villas in certain parts of Spain where one can go for miles and miles and miles and see no other human activity or habitation.


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## Dominic (Jul 12, 2013)

Roland said:


> Of course the OP can take care of 60 hives, but can he take GOOD care of 60 hives. I grew up in a commercial beekeeping family, had less than 10 hives for many years, then jumped back to commercial levels one year. If the OP has the money, and the tech support, he COULD do 60, but a "man has got to know his limitations".
> 
> crazy Roland


The question needs to be asked: does he *need* to take *good* care of 60 hives? He's an almond grower, that's his income. From what I gather, his beekeeping objectives are, firstly, to pollinate his orchard and, secondly, to diversify his production. For neither of these objectives does he need to maximize hive efficiency. Low yields and high mortality could threaten the economic sense of the project, but not the objectives sought.

With 60 hives, even if you get a low yield, and high losses, you still get honey to sell. More than with two perfectly managed hives, unless things go really, really bad. If the bees swarm, well... more feral bees to pollinate his orchard.

But as I brought up in my first post, and others mentioned as well, an important factor to consider is that an orchard is a terrible place to install 60 hives year-round. Forage scarcity and pesticide abundance would be terrible for the colonies. One would need to either find apiaries elsewhere for the non-bloom period, or to really consider his orchard management in consequence (flowering covercrops, flowering windbreaks, covering hives during pesticide applications, etc.).


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Dominic said:


> One would need to either find apiaries elsewhere for the non-bloom period, or to really consider his orchard management in consequence (flowering covercrops, flowering windbreaks, covering hives during pesticide applications, etc.).


My point was if you are pollinating almonds you are not likely to produce organic honey.


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## Snowhitsky (Mar 1, 2014)

Michael Bush said:


> Put an observation hive in the living room.


In the living room? I'd have to earn a LOT of brownie points before I got an OK from she who must be obeyed!


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

"Can a noob take care of 60 hives?"

No.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>In the living room? I'd have to earn a LOT of brownie points before I got an OK from she who must be obeyed!

She will get over it.


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## Dani (Nov 19, 2014)

Hello, so many responses thank you 

It sounds reasonable I need to start in a much smaller scale and see what happens. I'm not in a hurry but yea I would like to get 60 hives in 3 years as much, and I have enough time for it.

There are lots of dandelion and rosemary around my area and I have 10 acres to plant flowers.

I apologize about the organic honey, I know one can never ensure his honey is organic since the neighbours can spray all kinds of chemicals over their crops, but you get the idea.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Humm, 10 acres of flowers devoted to the bees huh. 
Then I will order 1 acre each of:
Sainfoin, Borage, black oil Sunflower, turnip green, canola, alfalfa, clovers,
asters, buckwheat, and Nygers. And pollen trap for the Spring feeding too.


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

Sorry but I do not believe that it is not possible to start with 60 hives and be successful . I do not believe , because my own experience refutes this assertion ; and provided that certain conditions (which are not fixed , absolute and universal , of course ) are met .

It seems incredible to me that I am the only beekeeper in this forum to have started with 50 hives . Surely there will be others here who started with a good dozen hives .

With this I do not mean that the OP should start with 50 or 60 hives . But it strikes me as debatable to say that he can not start with 60 hives as to say that a beginner can succeed only start with 2 or 4 or 6 hives .

To achieve exceptional goals exceptional conditions are required ; but to say this is not to say that is impossible.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

Eduardo Gomes said:


> Sorry but I do not believe that it is not possible to start with 60 hives and be successful . I do not believe , because my own experience refutes this assertion ; and provided that certain conditions (which are not fixed , absolute and universal , of course ) are met .
> 
> *It seems incredible to me that I am the only beekeeper in this forum to have started with 50 hives *. Surely there will be others here who started with a good dozen hives .
> 
> ...


Let's be clear,
You and your mentor started with 50 hives, not you alone as a "noob".
From your previous post: " and an available experienced guidance from my father".


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## vdotmatrix (Apr 5, 2014)

Sure, you can start with 60, or have started with 50, anyone can start. The real issue is how many do you still have at the end of the season and the beginning of the next.....I think I would love to try to manage that many hives...It would be a full time+ job. If you have an organized bee yard and all the equipment, capitol and know-how and energy to try it-THEN **** THE TORPEDOS or anything anyone says to discourage you...GO FOR IT. You know you can always get help right here whenever you need it....cheers


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

clyderoad said:


> Let's be clear,
> You and your mentor started with 50 hives, not you alone as a "noob".
> From your previous post: " and an available experienced guidance from my father".


Guidance of my father= one of the conditions as I mentioned. There are always conditions, don't they?... and provided that certain conditions (which are not fixed , absolute and universal , of course ) are met .


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

vdotmatrix said:


> Sure, you can start with 60, or have started with 50, anyone can start. The real issue is how many do you still have at the end of the season and the beginning of the next.....


As I said I started with 50 hives in autumn 2009 .

In September 2010 had 94 hives , everything just based on splits of my own hives , I did not buy queens or nucs . I collected about 800 Kgs of honey in 2010. To me it seems that I succeeded.

But I 'm not the central figure of this post , but the idea... and the experience of others who have followed a similar path to mine.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

Eduardo Gomes said:


> Guidance of my father= one of the conditions as I mentioned. There are always conditions, don't they?... and provided that certain conditions (which are not fixed , absolute and universal , of course ) are met .


Are you replying to the original post #1 ? 
If so, there is no mention of any outside guidance.
The conditions are: Just one man, never having kept bees before asking if he can take care of 60 hives starting out.


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

Not in a precise way . As I said my interest is whether others started with 50 or more hives and under what conditions .

My father gave me directions , but in many situations they have confirmed what I already knew , and what I learned through reading newspapers / journals about beekeeping , consultations on the net , forums , training in my association of beekeepers,... . Obviously do not want to minimize the guiding role of my father , which was important , but in some situations I disagreed with his options and went on with my ideas (sometimes go well and sometimes less well ) . This was very good in those days , it was not authoritarian and left me here and there commit my mistakes . It was not a lead iron , and it was not a blind following . Therefore resulted as well in those days . When he died in February 2011 , I was alone with more than 90 hives , expand my apiary to 180 hives , again without buying or queens nucellus and took 2000 kgs of honey this year and did transhumance . It was a very tough year !

Returning to the fundamental: with this I just say that if the orientation is essential , there are many ways to get it (I'm getting orientation here :thumbsup.
The major variables that determine my success are : motivation , time available (full time for do the job, study and reflecting and imagining solutions), resilience , learning and an available experienced guidance from my father.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Yup, I think the OP should buy 100 hives.That way, the next year it will be very easy to write out the pollination check to another beekeeper. 


crazy roland


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## vdotmatrix (Apr 5, 2014)

I think I change my mind : Can or should a Newbie BEEK start out with 60 hives: my answer is NO. You will freak the **** out and loose a lot of good bees. You don't know what you are looking at or looking for during inspections. You have no idea how to identify or treat pest or differentiate a swarm from bearding or what to do when they swarm and so on....forget it. It isn't a newbie situation staring with 10 let alone 60....Don't try it. You need at least 1 year experience or a team of mentors onsite for a month every month. IMO


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## Allen Martens (Jan 13, 2007)

Is 60 hives doable? Yes very much so. Not for everyone but for many yes.

I started with 260 hives my first year and maintained a full time teaching job so I did have July and August off. I had 2 month of pulling honey experience the year before and did have someone giving me some advice but it was a steep learning curve.

Some things to keep in mind if you do decide to pursue this venture

-Make sure any equipment you purchase is standard for your area so you can sell in easily and profitably if you decide beekeeping is not for you.

-See if you can find a mentor in your area who is willing to help you some. If you have beekeeping courses available to you take them. Attend clubs and seminars

-Read as many comprehensive books about beekeeping as you can. Make sure meof them focus on your area and have a commercial slant.

-Try to glean as much info as possible from the internet (forums, you tube, blogs). Much of this information may be conflicting or not applicable to your area or situation. Since you are looking to pollinate almonds pay attention to what commercial almond pollinators are saying. If you are looking at this as a commercial venture, pay attention to what large beekeepers are doing to minimize time invested. Begin by following standard practices for your area and experiment with innovations after you become confident in doing things the standard way for your area.

Good luck


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## Dani (Nov 19, 2014)

k I think I will spend a "learning year" with 4 or 5 hives and then order the 60 for next year


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## vdotmatrix (Apr 5, 2014)

Seriously, when you see how wonderful these little girls can be AND how much you worry about them during the first year, you will then be able to multiply times 10 and evaluate how you feel about Bee Keeping on a truly large scale....opppps correction, on a commercial scale. If you collect honey on this scale you will need a lot of equipment.....again, forums are like CB radio channels with everyone talking and adding their opinions....Beekeepers are good folk and love our bees good luck


Dani said:


> k I think I will spend a "learning year" with 4 or 5 hives and then order the 60 for next year


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## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

Dani said:


> k I think I will spend a "learning year" with 4 or 5 hives and then order the 60 for next year


You may be able to hire an experienced beek to help you. Let them be the beek and you be the apprentice. You should be able to handle as many hives as you wish.


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## Dani (Nov 19, 2014)

dsegrest said:


> You may be able to hire an experienced beek to help you. Let them be the beek and you be the apprentice. You should be able to handle as many hives as you wish.


that would be awesome unfortunately I don't know any beekeper yet, I know of some 40 miles away LOL.


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## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

Dani said:


> that would be awesome unfortunately I don't know any beekeper yet, I know of some 40 miles away LOL.


I understand there is substantial unemployment still in Spain. Maybe you could put an ad somewhere.


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## vdotmatrix (Apr 5, 2014)

Estas en espana? mijo no me di cuenta....jajaja. holy es-smoke!!!


Dani said:


> that would be awesome unfortunately I don't know any beekeper yet, I know of some 40 miles away LOL.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Soooooo is it possible? For the right person yes. Is it advisable? No. I know a guy that started out with over a thousand hives and virtually no beekeeping experience. He's doing well now but by his own admission, there was a pretty steep learning curve those first few years. The key element in his success was a really, really strong work ethic.


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## Riskybizz (Mar 12, 2010)

"Can a noob take care of 60 hives"

Kinda like can a totally inexperienced person manage an almond orchard. There is no substitute for experience.


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## SRatcliff (Mar 19, 2011)

Its so easy to propagate bees, you could have double that within a few years, starting with a couple of hives. By that time you would have saved tons of money, learned from your mistakes, and even be making a profit.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Allen Martens said:


> I started with 260 hives my first year and maintained a full time teaching job


You have proved to be a successful beekeeper Allen.

How many hives did you have after your third year?


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## IAmTheWaterbug (Jun 4, 2014)

SRatcliff said:


> Its so easy to propagate bees, you could have double that within a few years, starting with a couple of hives. By that time you would have saved tons of money, learned from your mistakes, and even be making a profit.


So the standard line is that you can have more honey, or more bees, but not both.

How does that apply to Dani's situation, where he's concerned primarily with pollination power? Does splitting hives aggressively diminish their ability to pollinate?


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

Phil, from a previous post, jredburn quotes:

"If anyone had bothered to Gogle Organic standards for honey they would have found that the federal government can and will fine you up to $10,000 for putting the word "organic" on your label UNLESS you have paid one of their approved testing companies a lot of money to come out and examine your location. 
Their requirements include no residential, industrial, agricultural or commercial activities within a two mile radius of your location. An additional 2 mile radius is to be monitored for pesticide sprays and chemical usage. So you can have nothing but pasture/woods within 4 miles of your location.
I know of a couple of locations that will qualify but the government already owns the land and will not permit anyone to have hives there because they are environmentally sensitive areas.
"Certified Naturally Grown" is a low cost way to imply that your honey is organic. "

From a thread earlier this year, and I believe there hasn't been clear cut defined guidelines established to meet a 'certified' label.


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## Allen Martens (Jan 13, 2007)

Ian said:


> You have proved to be a successful beekeeper Allen.
> 
> How many hives did you have after your third year?


I kept my numbers at about 300 for the first 4 or 5 years. Time and finances have a way of doing that.

I felt that if I was going to do beekeeping for profit that there were a critical number of hives I needed to make purchasing equipment possible and economical. Often when you expand you do no more work that when you were smaller - you just use better more efficient equipment. I still haul just as many loads of bees to flowers as when I first started - I just don't haul 20 at a time anymore.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Allen Martens said:


> I kept my numbers at about 300 for the first 4 or 5 years. Time and finances have a way of doing that.
> 
> I felt that if I was going to do beekeeping for profit that there were a critical number of hives I needed to make purchasing equipment possible and economical. Often when you expand you do no more work that when you were smaller - you just use better more efficient equipment. I still haul just as many loads of bees to flowers as when I first started - I just don't haul 20 at a time anymore.


A shout out to Dani the Noob, take note of this comment, it applies to this business regardless if your talking 6, 61 or 6000 hives.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

I was going to chime in, do you have the TIME to take care of 60 hives. Beekeeping is fairly straight forward hive to hive.... but it becomes more of a logistics issue as your numbers increase.


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

I agree completely . When I started with my 50 hives in rule formula was : 35 hives were very similar , 5 were different for the better, other 5 were different but for the worse and 5 others were a headache because they were confused . Of these 50 only 5 or 10 gave me more work . But because I had 50, exceptional cases appeared in virtually every week. My learning curve was very fast on the ground this first year .

What took me more time to brood , and view and review ideas , and somehow still continues to lead , are the logistical issues. Achieve a good compromise between what is needed ( particularly space and equipment), what the market offer, what to choose and the available budget . And who gets more than 20 hives , I suspect that will be taken surprise often . It is that most of the logistical issues I encountered came not in the books I read.


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## Flyer Jim (Apr 22, 2004)

Eduardo Gomes said:


> Sorry but I do not believe that it is not possible to start with 60 hives and be successful . I do not believe , because my own experience refutes this assertion ; and provided that certain conditions (which are not fixed , absolute and universal , of course ) are met .
> 
> It seems incredible to me that I am the only beekeeper in this forum to have started with 50 hives . Surely there will be others here who started with a good dozen hives .
> 
> ...


Yes there are,we just get tired of people telling us we can't or couldn't, while we do.



jim lyon said:


> The key element in his success was a really, really strong work ethic.


 Yep that's it. :thumbsup:




Allen Martens said:


> I kept my numbers at about 300 for the first 4 or 5 years. Time and finances have a way of doing that.
> 
> I felt that if I was going to do beekeeping for profit that there were a critical number of hives I needed to make purchasing equipment possible and economical. Often when you expand you do no more work that when you were smaller - you just use better more efficient equipment. I still haul just as many loads of bees to flowers as when I first started - I just don't haul 20 at a time anymore.


 I started with a pick up and an armstrong inch: loader my first year and I had over 50 hives,12 hives to a load. Now I have a flatbed and swinger that the bees bought for me and is my back glad.  13 years over 500 hives and not one year in the red. (knock on wood) 

So go for it, if thats what you want.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

I would like to address the time issue a bit. Firstly, I am not an almond farmer and have never been to the almond run. It is not definite so take it accordingly to the folks who do the almonds here. Let's assume that in Spain you have the 4 seasons just like us here in CA according to the almond's blossom time.
If the weather pattern is the same then growing almonds is not much difference. You just have to shuffle the hives around to key location in your orchards at the right time. On around Jan to mid Feb thru April is when you are the busiest from feeding to getting them ready for the pollination. Our early almond bloom from mid-Feb to the end of March here almost a 1 month cycle. It all depends on the local weather pattern. Your bees must be strong enough to take advantage of the flow. So they must be brooding up from Jan until the almonds bloom. After the almonds around April you must do some hive management so they will not swarm. It is an ongoing monitoring during the flow as well for possible swarming. After the almonds then the other acres of flowers that I mentioned should be blooming in succession so that during the summer months the bees will not starve but continue to have a source of nectar and pollen coming in for their expansion steadily until the Fall. Then from April on until September is swarm monitor/control time. Also the months of mite management preparing them for the October hive prepping going into the winter months. So if your hives are ready for the winter starting on the month of mid-October then in Nov-Dec you should have some free time for your tree pruning. The only concern I have is in August for the almonds harvest that your hives are growing so they might swarm if the hive is growing too strong. But where can they go other than in your almond orchard, right. From July to September, I disrupt the queen laying by splitting my hives so that they cannot swarm to requeen them. Then in early September I have new queens to overwinter with. Our dearth months are from July to September. Also the type of bees you are keeping have an affect on how you manage your time and hives as well. The carnis tend to shut down around mid to late October if the temp is rather cold but the Italians still laying until early, mid Nov. as long as they have pollen to eat. I don't think the queen will shut down at all if you continue to feed them patty sub. I'm still experimenting on this one here.
Hope this give you some insight to the things you have to deal with thru out the seasons. But beekeeping is ever changing in your local environment so don't take it too rigidly. Make it more flexible so you can expand and contract your apiary accordingly. The details you have to work it out as beekeeping is very very local according to your environment. 
To the almond folks, if my information is incorrect please correct me if you are doing the almonds in CA!


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## Allen Martens (Jan 13, 2007)

Flyer Jim said:


> I started with a pick up and an armstrong inch: loader my first year and I had over 50 hives,12 hives to a load. Now I have a flatbed and swinger that the bees bought for me and is my back.


As the saying goes .'I feel your pain. ' lol. Glad to be done the armstrong phase. I did a calculation once years ago as to how many pounds I lifted in a summer. I forget the number but it was insane.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

my employees joke about my beekeeping labourer job description. They say it should read;
x number of "picker upper and putter downer" positions available at the honey farm


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Ian said:


> my employees joke about my beekeeping labourer job description. They say it should read;
> x number of "picker upper and putter downer" positions available at the honey farm


Machines do this very well and they don't need medical coverage. Just saying.


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## Snowhitsky (Mar 1, 2014)

Flyer Jim said:


> I started with a pick up and an armstrong inch: loader


What's an armstrong loader? Just curious.


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

Acebird said:


> Machines do this very well and they don't need medical coverage. Just saying.


Anyone who thinks that robotics are even close to the point where we can eliminate all the "picker upper and putter downer" positions with a machine certainly is not up to speed with the current state of the art in that industry. The beekeeping we do takes much more "look, see, think, react appropriately" actions wherein all the grunts in our industry would need to start shaking inside their beesuits about losing their jobs anytime in the near future.

To mention just one small scenario in beekeeping: 

How long do you think it will take before a sensor can detect a queenless hive just from the way the bees are walking or flying?


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## Flyer Jim (Apr 22, 2004)

Snowhitsky said:


> What's an armstrong loader? Just curious.


armstrong= by hand or manually....you need strong arms (and some times a weak mind)


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## max2 (Dec 24, 2009)

Hi Dani,
start with planting forage, the dandelion and other plants between your orchard trees. Read loads of books.
Year two : get a couple of hives, observe, learn...expand.
Don't rush - it pays to go steady


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Honey-4-All said:


> Anyone who thinks that robotics are even close to the point where we can eliminate all the "picker upper and putter downer" positions


I'm working on it! But it's merely a "picker upper and putter back down" assist. My boom loader, my forklift, my frame grabber.


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

Ian said:


> I'm working on it! But it's merely a "picker upper and putter back down" assist. My boom loader, my forklift, my frame grabber.


There are ways of getting that done with the appropriate optics and sensors. Deciding if it should be done is another issue.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Honey-4-All said:


> Deciding if it should be done is another issue.


If you have wealth you will want to protect it. All it takes a few comp cases to show you the light. As healthcare becomes more a public issue rather than a private issue the grunt jobs will be eliminated. Production will suffer of course but it is for the better good.

All electrical sensors work at the speed of light. The time is not the issue it is the cost of the sensor. In any mechanized factory it is the lowest paid jobs that get replaced. Why in the heck do you think manufacturing when off shore?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

As Phil mentioned, the beekeeping work that we are implying about involves "look, see, think, react appropriately" actions. That is where assists have been developed.


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

Besides the fact that enough work needs to be accomplished to make a buck or two at this gig I really can not fathom how any robotics will improve the true "soul" of beekeeping. They might help save a back or two but the amazement I glean at the creation contained just within a well working frame or two of bees will certainly be at least partially lost the more I get my head out of the boxes and on to the computer screen running the robot.

In saying this I'm sure I'm in the top 10% of beekeepers looking for avenues to "get the grunt out." I certainly don't want to be the guy walking behind the horse and the plow who ends up watching the neighbor's self guided GPS tractor park itself but nether do I want to become like the city slicker who needs to "visit" some magical national park to get my head back on straight during an annual vacation somewhere. 

Besides the maladies the grunt work imposses on our bodies I think the mind ( soul ) is well cleared by the many hours spent doing all the schlepping jobs bees involve....


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Honey-4-All said:


> Besides the fact that enough work needs to be accomplished to make a buck or two at this gig


If the cost of keeping bees goes up so will the price of honey until there is no need for the honey. It is the repetitive lifting and bending that is bad for the worker. I don't ever see the practicality of a programmable robot used in the field but simple lifting devices and a requirement of two people to lift heavy boxes could be a reality in the future.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Acebird said:


> but simple lifting devices could be a reality in the future.


eyes wide shut


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Or as seen on the T.V. news you can develop the robotic arms that fit into yours to help
with the heavy lifting reducing the weight from 90 to 20 lbs. I believe you tube has a vid
of this invention already. WOW! Now all beeks turn into a half androids. Pretty neat, huh.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Dani said:


> *TLDR: Im an almond orchard farmer and I want to combine this job with beekeeping 60 hives. Sounds doable or crazy?*
> 
> 
> Thanks for your time


How many have you maintained for how long already?


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