# UltraBee vs. AP23 vs. Homemade



## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

Check and see if you are close to any distributors for globalpatties.com I get the 15% pollen patties, the top of the line for 1.77 a pound. They bees eat them any time you put them on. A lot of my home made offerings and other brands sit there. You will like them The lower end without pollen are a little over a dollar a pound. The bees eat them too.


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

I like the Global 15% patties, too.

Nancy


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## cconnell (Mar 5, 2017)

Vance and Nancy, Thanks for the recommendation. I was not familiar with them, but just went through everything on their website. The bees really like them that much? Do you know anything about the supplemental ingredients aside from the yeast, soy, an sugar? The price is certainly good. There is a distributor in California, though a bit out of the way for a drive. I'll check into it. 

I think probably a mix of non-pollen and pollen would be wise. Winter finally arrived here--supposed to get down to 11 F tonight and there's 2 feet of snow on the ground. It's hard to know how quickly it will warm up when it finally does.


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## KevinWI (Mar 18, 2018)

I have no information on the the other patties. All I can say is I made my own Ultra-bee patties and after calculating the cost, it came out to $0.96/lb. Bees seem to love it. Recipe came out to 16.5% protein.


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## Kamon A. Reynolds (Apr 15, 2012)

Laurel and I just purchased 1500 lbs of dry ultrabee we love it and the price is right.


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## cconnell (Mar 5, 2017)

Tenn Bees--do you feed the UlteBee dry, or do you mix it and make patties?


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## JustinS (Jul 17, 2018)

I use ultra bee. I set it out dry a ways from the hives and they love it when there is not fresh pollen. When there is fresh pollen coming in they dont touch it. I made the mistake of putting it to close to the hives in the beginning and they never found it but when I moved it they found it and use it. I made patties with it this year and put them on but the bees aren't touching it as of now at least but we are in full red maple bloom right now.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

JustinS said:


> I use ultra bee. I set it out dry a ways from the hives . . .


How far is "a ways"?


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## beemantn (Jan 4, 2019)

KevinWI, Mind sharing your recipe?


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## Kamon A. Reynolds (Apr 15, 2012)

cconnell said:


> Tenn Bees--do you feed the UlteBee dry, or do you mix it and make patties?


We use it in Patty form. Occasionally we feed it dry but I see the results I want from patties.


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## Geno (Apr 23, 2015)

In winter months, I feed Lauri's recipe and feed inside the hive. I have used both named substitute products and both work well. Price dependant.

In late winter (daytime temps above 50°), I increase the substitute content to 4 oz to every pound of sugar. This helps early brood rearing and normally thru two complete brood cycles prior to springs nectar/pollen flow. Add four oz additional apple cider vinegar with this mix. Substitutes are very hydroscopic.

Stop feeding when spring flow begins.


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## AstroZomBEE (Aug 1, 2006)

In my opinion Mega Bee is the best pollen sub, however i use Mann Lake's ultrabee because i find it to be the best value for the investment.

I've used just about every pollen sub that has been available over the last 20 years. But ultrabee took over as my go to easily based on a combination of good results, good price, and availability.

I feed it in candy, and our own homemade soft loaf recipes. We also open feed it dry when we are particularly are trying to encourage brood rearing.


Aaron


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## JustinS (Jul 17, 2018)

Shinbone- the hives I have in my backyard are about 10 yards maybe from it, the yards that are bigger are 30+ yards away. What I do is I feed it in a quilt board type set up with a inner cover and round rapid feeder elevated on cinder blocks with a corrugated metal cover cut to size (I have extra laying around from a barn built) add a block on top and the bees access it from the sides under the lid. Works great keeps rain out. 

The one thing I do is set it up when it is going to be nice for a few days. I fill the rapid round feeder up and leave it uncovered for a few days so they find it and then add the cover and leave it from there on out with a brink on top. I have it set up year around our winters are to crazy (up and down constantly not good) so our queens never really have 100% brood break. They work it year round when pollen is scarce. I also add a pollen patty to it too just in case they want some of that while they are out and about in the dead of winter

The whole set up is built from scrape wood and I have the top and blocks around. The bottom is a inner cover with feeder hole or a sheet of plywood with a hole, the rapid round feeders need a hole so it will drop down, they stick up about an inch or so from the bottom. The rapid round feeders are about $6 or so ( all my hives have one, Ebay the cheapest I have found to get them) from Ebay seller Simon the Beekeeper free shipping from Europe (takes about 3 weeks or so to get them to me) so easy under $10 simple build or under $20 if need to buy inner cover. Very easy to use and the rapid round feeders hold quite a bit. I like this set up way more than the PVC pipe (dont hold as much, and I have no use for 4"+ pipe) and the blue pollen feeders are to much for me at over $100. I was looking for something that is more useful for me, if it didn't work I could reuse the quilt box and round rapid feeder on another hive, couldn't find anything so just made this up. 

I only have one picture but can take more after work if you want to (or anyone) see more of the set up I use.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

cconnell said:


> Vance and Nancy, Thanks for the recommendation. I was not familiar with them, but just went through everything on their website. The bees really like them that much? Do you know anything about the supplemental ingredients aside from the yeast, soy, an sugar? The price is certainly good. There is a distributor in California, though a bit out of the way for a drive. I'll check into it.
> 
> I think probably a mix of non-pollen and pollen would be wise. Winter finally arrived here--supposed to get down to 11 F tonight and there's 2 feet of snow on the ground. It's hard to know how quickly it will warm up when it finally does.


Go to global site and read and call them! They will answer your questions. Most service oriented business I have ever done business with. That is why I recommend them.


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## GregH (Aug 4, 2016)

AstroZomBEE: Would you give up your soft loaf recipe.


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## cfalls (Nov 26, 2017)

Hi Aaron, I got some of your nucs through a local retailer. Each one had a frame feeder with some kind of feed in them. Was that the soft loaf you mentioned or something else? It was sugary and slightly orange colored.

Just wondering because I've been thinking about reusing those frame feeders, perhaps filling them with something similar to winter patties to avoid drowning and provide a little protein without stimulating brood rearing quite yet. Whatever you put in there, I noticed they had already eaten maybe half of it, but totally ignored it once there was pollen and nectar coming in. And it wasn't a SHB sanctuary like unused pollen patties tend to be.


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## AstroZomBEE (Aug 1, 2006)

GregG and cfalls, i answered you both in private messages, as to not hi-jack this thread. if someone else would like the same info start a new thread asking those questions and i will post openly.


Aaron


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

Randy Oliver ran an experiment to determine which is the best pollen substitute patty a couple years back. There were 4 good ones - 3 were knock-offs of Dr. Gordon Wardell's "Tucson Diet" currently marketed as "MegaBee" through Dadant & Sons, and, of course, Megabee. 

To review this, go onto Randy's website, www.scientificbeekeeping.com , on the right, click on Bee Nutrition, scroll down to "A Comparatitive Test of the Pollen Subs" and click "read more". It would be a good idea to print out that entire article. 

If one studies the graph of bee population vs time, the group of 18 colonies with the fastest recovery rate (steepest slope in January) is the group fed MegaBee all Fall & Winter.

For my money, one cannot yet beat the original. The product is not yet perfect - pure real pollen IS still better - but MegaBee still gets better results that the knock-offs from Mann Lake, Brushy Mountain, etc. I do not work for Dr. Wardell, this is just from my experience with my own and others' bees in Southern California in the Mojave Desert, along the coast and in the foothills range in San Diego, Los Angeles, Ventura, Santa Barbara, San Luis Obispo, and Kern Counties.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

JustinS said:


> Shinbone- the hives I have in my backyard are about 10 yards . . .


Thanks for the excellent explanation. I plan to give dry open feeding a try this year.


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## JoshuaW (Feb 2, 2015)

Dry Megabee for open feeding, and Global 15% patties in the hive.

I used ap23 for several years, but then I wanted some actual data on ap23's performance, but I couldn't find anything except anecdotal opinions. 
So, based on Randy Oliver's pollen sub experiment I switched to Megabee and Global 15%.


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## Rich’s Bees (May 23, 2018)

Ultra bee is good, I use it, bees like it just fine! But I also make my own, and basically spend the same. I use soy flour, in Ohio you can buy crushed soybeans for $8.00 for a 50 lb bag, I take it to our local Amish and have it ground to an ultra fine flour. I mix in dry milk, yeast, powdered granulated sugar, powdered natural pollen I collect with a pollen trap, powdered wild mushrooms and powdered multi vitamins. The bees like it also. But at the same time I scratch my head watching them attack my chickens multi grain laying mash. Ultra bee seems like an easier solution if you have the 85 bucks to by a big bag. Let someone else experiment if you have the option.


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## Honeybeenut (Apr 16, 2017)

I guess I am confused to why anyone would feel the need to add anything to ultra bee. Megabee or beepro. 
I would just think a lot of research went into those products and the best was created even though they differ slightly they all work great. 
Used beepro before but currently using ultrabee. They seem to take to the ultrabee better though.


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

The research went into MegaBee. 

UltraBee & BeePro are knock-offs. The one of the differences is grain refinement - MegaBee is finer-grained. There are probably nutritional differences, though small. The population recovery rate in early Spring is faster for MegaBee fed colonies. Important for you almond contracts? Yup. $$$$$$$$$$


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## edzkoda (Aug 9, 2014)

kilocharlie said:


> The research went into MegaBee.
> 
> UltraBee & BeePro are knock-offs. The one of the differences is grain refinement - MegaBee is finer-grained. There are probably nutritional differences, though small. The population recovery rate in early Spring is faster for MegaBee fed colonies. Important for you almond contracts? Yup. $$$$$$$$$$



Is it true that Megbee changed their formula last year? Heard it is a little more like Ultrabee now, except as you said, slightly finer ground.


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## edzkoda (Aug 9, 2014)

Honeybeenut said:


> I guess I am confused to why anyone would feel the need to add anything to ultra bee. Megabee or beepro.
> I would just think a lot of research went into those products and the best was created even though they differ slightly they all work great.
> Used beepro before but currently using ultrabee. They seem to take to the ultrabee better though.


One reason may be the difference between feeding dry or wet. Depending on the time of year it seems to work better when mixed with oil and few other things, depending on what works in your area


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## aran (May 20, 2015)

Vance G said:


> Check and see if you are close to any distributors for globalpatties.com I get the 15% pollen patties, the top of the line for 1.77 a pound. They bees eat them any time you put them on. A lot of my home made offerings and other brands sit there. You will like them The lower end without pollen are a little over a dollar a pound. The bees eat them too.


i looked on betterbee.com:
40lbs of the global patties 15% is $112.36
40 lbs of the ultra bee at Mannlake is $78.95


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## JoshuaW (Feb 2, 2015)

I get Global shipped to me for $98 per box (with shipping), straight from the manufacturer (2.45/lb w/shp). That's cheaper than I can order it from a distributor (3.13/lb w/shp).
Megabee is $85 per box ($2.13/lb w/free shipping over $100). 

I consider higher cost to be negligible for a superior product. Quality nutrition doesn't cost. It pays.

On an open-feeding note: I put out ap23 in a hive body for a few days. The bees found it and started taking it. Then I put out ultrabee in a hive body, and megabee in a feeder, too. The bees clearly opted for the ultrabee (abandoning the ap23 altogether), and probably will consume the megabee about as slowly as the ap23. The take-away for me is that ultrabee might be the best choice for open feeding, while megabee was designed to be fed via syrup or patty form inside the hive.

So, I'm trying different products this year...


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## KevinWI (Mar 18, 2018)

beemantn said:


> KevinWI, Mind sharing your recipe?


sure:


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

Thanks for the Video. I use a https://www.harborfreight.com/power-tools/mixers/3-1-2-half-cubic-ft-cement-mixer-67538.html would make it much easier for you.


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## KevinWI (Mar 18, 2018)

EastSideBuzz said:


> Thanks for the Video. I use a https://www.harborfreight.com/power-tools/mixers/3-1-2-half-cubic-ft-cement-mixer-67538.html would make it much easier for you.


it sure would....and would increase the cost per lb to $20/lb .....it worked just fine for me with the cost of a little elbow grease.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Kevin, I fed one of my hives the first of the pollen patties I made with your recipe. They were all on it before I got the hive closed back up. They were low on stores too so that may have had something to do with it. Do want to point out that the patties need to be kept refrigerated or frozen until time to use. I had put several of them in the box with the ML patties and there was a little mold starting to form on just the homemade ones.


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## KevinWI (Mar 18, 2018)

JWPalmer said:


> Kevin, I fed one of my hives the first of the pollen patties I made with your recipe. They were all on it before I got the hive closed back up. They were low on stores too so that may have had something to do with it. Do want to point out that the patties need to be kept refrigerated or frozen until time to use. I had put several of them in the box with the ML patties and there was a little mold starting to form on just the homemade ones.


yep...thats why I keep them in the freezer until ready to use....1:25 mark of video.


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## cconnell (Mar 5, 2017)

Kevin, Thals for the video. There's a lot of great information throughout this thread. I wonder if a two-step approach is useful--UltraBee early on and then switching to the 15% global pollen pattie as the flow gets closer.


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

KevinWI said:


> it sure would....and would increase the cost per lb to $20/lb .....it worked just fine for me with the cost of a little elbow grease.


I tend to throw money at the problems and my time is very important. Also every job deserves a new tool.  I was looking for a bakery mixer but, they were in the 1-2k range. So cement mixer was better prices. I also feed a couple hundred hives at a time.

HF and me are really good friends. I returned my mulcher at 5 years and the extended warranty ran out 3 years past but, since they are on my honey list they just replaced it for me free and sold me a new extended warranty. Tip your waiters well and they take care of you. Everyone likes bottles of honey.


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## Woodside (Aug 10, 2010)

i dont think it matters what patty is used.


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

Woodside said:


> i dont think it matters what patty is used.


So you are saying a patty is a patty. Thus ending the age old fight weather Krabby pattys are better then chum bucket pattys.


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## Woodside (Aug 10, 2010)

EastSideBuzz said:


> So you are saying a patty is a patty. Thus ending the age old fight weather Krabby pattys are better then chum bucket pattys.


yaya haha


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## MajorPain (Jul 22, 2014)

I know this is an older post, but I'd thought I'd mention to get brewers yeast and other products, find a supplier for bakery supplies. You might have to apply for an account to get the better pricing but it's worth it for the discounts. Most stuff is best bought in 50lb bags. I make our own patties at about $0.88 Canadian. So in the US, you should be cheaper at the USD.


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