# HELP!! Hornets living directly under my hive!



## cheryl1 (Mar 7, 2015)

These aren't yellow jackets, they are the big white and black hornets that are extremely aggressive. They have made their inground nest between the concrete blocks one of my hives is sitting on. There were at least 50 crawling around in the grass, and whoever knows how many more underground. 

How can I get rid of them without moving or killing the hive? The hive is 3 heavy mediums and I'm all by myself. I'm afraid if I move it the hornets will attack. 

Wait for colder weather? The hornets are picking bees off like its a buffet and I don't know how long this can continue without killing the hive. 

Close up the hive and use wasp spray? It's supposed to freeze tonight, maybe cover the ground with a board and brick and then move the hive? 

I don't want to lose the hive but I don't want to get killed by hornets either.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

This isn't Japan. Hornets aren't going to kill a strong hive here. Is your entrance reduced to a managable size?

I don't think the hornets you describe (bald faced hornets) nest in the ground however. 









http://www.insect.com/sites/default/files/Bald Faced Hornet.jpg


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## Kamon A. Reynolds (Apr 15, 2012)

nothing a night time kerosene drench won't fix haha. 

They are not going to hurt your healthy hives BUT they might drill you to the nearest tree! I would rather have 10 honeybee stings than one of a hornet. BAM!


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## cheryl1 (Mar 7, 2015)

I didn't think they ground nested either. It's probably more likely that they have a nest inside the concrete block. But I wasn't going to hang around and look any closer once 50 hornets started taking an interest in me!


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

cheryl1 said:


> I didn't think they ground nested either. It's probably more likely that they have a nest inside the concrete block. But I wasn't going to hang around and look any closer once 50 hornets started taking an interest in me!


Interesting... Their nests are pretty big. I wonder if it's a weird queen gathering, is this the time if year they're getting all that sorted out or is it late for that even?

I have used brake cleaner in the past to kill wasps, not sure how effective against hornets. You should have protective gear from beekeeping right? Suit up and deal with them.


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## cheryl1 (Mar 7, 2015)

I'm planning on dealing with it when my husband gets home. safety in numbers  or someone to call 911. We had a local man nearly killed by hornets just a few weeks ago. It's a risk to take seriously. 

I have an ultra breeze suit but hornets have longer stingers and can get through. It's happened to me before.


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

Put thick clothes on under the UltraBeeze: long johns, sweat pants, multiple layers of clothing, down vest, etc.

Enj.


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## Norcalkyle (Apr 23, 2015)

If it is in ground pour a cup or two of gasoline down the hole at night and seal up with mud.

If its above ground and you can scoop it in to a bucket or something else do that. Bald Faced Hornets make paper nests in our Oak Trees every year, and we are able to cut them off at night and gently set them in to a plastic trash bag. We "relocate" the hornets and save the nests for decoration and taxidermy. My point is if you wait until late enough in the night, you can handle them for a bit before they come out to kick your butt.


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## Dave Burrup (Jul 22, 2008)

Spraying them with soapy water will kill them. Their nests can be anywhere from the size of an orange to large beach ball. I have never seen them nest in the ground, but I have seen their nest down next to the ground. I suspect they have a small nest in the between the concrete blocks. Put your bee suit on a dusk, find the nest, grab it with your covered hand blocking the entrance, and put it in a garbage bad. Then put the bag in the freezer. Problem solved.


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## cheryl1 (Mar 7, 2015)

I suited up and sprayed the area between the blocks with a foaming wasp spray. They actually were in the ground. (Maybe some kind of ground hornet that mimics the bald faced?) They kept crawling out to see what the disturbance was and dying in the foam. I know this won't kill the underground ones but at least there won't be hornets bothering them anymore today. 

I don't know how to post pics here but I did post a picture in my Facebook page-Russell Honey.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

cheryl1 said:


> Close up the hive and use wasp spray?


No don't do that. If used near a hive it is amazing how these residual poisons have a way of finding a way to hurt your bees over time.



jwcarlson said:


> Interesting... Their nests are pretty big. I wonder if it's a weird queen gathering, is this the time if year they're getting all that sorted out or is it late for that even?


A very insightful comment, queens and even the males can form clusters in fall in that type of location and behave as you describe. Don't know why the males do it as they do not make winter, but they try. They may be escaping the aggression that starts happening within the nest at that time.

Both gasoline, and soapy water are non residual chemicals that would be safer for the bees although both have risks but at least will not poison the area for years. What I use in tricky spots is a garden weed sprayer, remove the spray tip so it can be used in a jet. Put in gasoline or whatever I'm using, pump up, then it's easy enough to squirt a decent quantity right where you want it. I use a cheap weed sprayer as gasoline can damage the seals or o rings. However if I strip it down straight after and allow the seals to dry for a few days then re assemble with some rubber grease no harm seems to be done. Gasoline in cold conditions will take a long time to fume away so you may need to think of moving the hive at least for a while, it's a judgement call.


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## cheryl1 (Mar 7, 2015)

I watched them come up out of a hole in the ground. I also sent the pic and background info to a wildlife biologist friend. Maybe she'll know more about what they are.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

OK well if you've spotted the hole, gasoline or soapy water down it at night. As you can get it straight down and not leave any at the surface, soapy water may be the safer option for the bees.


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## McCoslin (Dec 4, 2013)

Can't you wait until night fall and move the hive? At least enough to get to the hornet's nest?


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## whiskers (Aug 28, 2011)

A small handful of paradichlorobenzine crystals into the hole with a shovel of dirt or a stone over the top has worked for me.
Bill


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## jcolon (Sep 12, 2014)

Seems sprayed already... :no:


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Oh yes. As I was writing my post, I missed it.


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## cheryl1 (Mar 7, 2015)

I just used a foaming spray on the ones outside the nest. I'll still have to do something to get the rest of them. I used the foam type so nothing would splatter up onto the hive.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

How did it work out in the end Cheryl1? I would have thought if you have poisoned the entrance then anything going in or out will eventually die so perhaps problem solved? Also even if it only severely weakens them, winter is on the way so they will decline and not be a problem any more. 

Once you are confident they are all gone you may be able to collapse the poisoned dirt into the hole and put a wad of fresh dirt over the top.


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## cheryl1 (Mar 7, 2015)

I checked the spot twice today. Zero hornet activity and no dead or weird acting bees. They came boiling up out of the hole when I foamed them, so I'm hoping I got enough of them to be done with it. It's supposed to be a low of 29 tonight so maybe the rest will freeze. 

I'm going to be completely changing the layout of the apiary next year, so I'm not too worried about a six inch square that's been sprayed. My husband thought having one hive I between each of our pine trees would be pretty. It is, but it's a real pain to work with.


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## cheryl1 (Mar 7, 2015)

Update: I heard back from my wildlife biologist friend who had shown my pictures to an entomologist at Purdue. He thought they might be black jackets, which I didn't even know existed. They want me to take samples and give them to them for ID. So....tomorrow I'll go see what I can find. I saw one live one acting drunk earlier today before I knew I was supposed to save it. The bees are still fine.


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