# too cold for oav?



## dlbrightjr (Dec 8, 2015)

I looked this up recently and found that it needs to be above 37F while doing it and for 2 hours after. Don't remember the source, but, felt it was reliable. If anyone knows different please correct. Thanks.


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## allniter (Aug 22, 2011)

yes that is what [ SNL] says he sales the varrox vaporizer


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## kaizen (Mar 20, 2015)

my concern is oav always gets my bees whipped up and they come out to defend. i'm low on population so really don't want to purposely sacrifice any bees. I know they will come out flying. land and freeze. nothing above 40 in my area either for 2 weeks at least. actually stop sending it down Rob.


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

So, pick up the bees that fly out and get chilled on the ground and put them back in their hive. Chilled bees revive quite well if retrieved quickly. the warmth from being in your upped bare hand, with perhaps a gentle warm breath will perk 'em up nicely.

I think there will an adequately warm period just before Christmas (23rd and 24th). Broodless-period OAV is the perfect Christmas present for your bees. That probably applies to Kaizen, but not sure about the OP in Canada.

You could also give them an OA dribble in colder temps - below freezing is fine.

The issue I see with OAV in really cold temps is that is messes with the temperatures achieved by the wand in the prescribed time more than anything. I've done it as low as 35F - if I can get get a good burn off by slightly lengthening the burn, I think it works fine.

My bees rarely fly out in cold temps when doing an OAV, and if they do, it's easy to tell which hive they came from and pick them up, warm them a bit. and hold them next to the entrance where they will almost always right toddle back in. In fact, I first started handling bees with my bare hands in my first winter because it was the only way to get them warmed fast enough - even nitrile gloves retard the warming.

Enj.


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## Tim KS (May 9, 2014)

enjambres said:


> You could also give them an OA dribble in colder temps - below freezing is fine.
> 
> Enj.


I've never done OAD on my bees, only OAV. But I've considered doing the dribble in summer & early fall, but I always heard a wet bee is a dead bee...especially when it's cold. Is this not true?


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

enjambres said:


> You could also give them an OA dribble in colder temps - below freezing is fine.
> 
> Enj.


I've tried oa dribble in cold weather 35*f using warm sugar water. It didn't work so well, 2 of 5 goners by first late winter hive check. Good cluster and healthy bees when treated. 
Other hives received the normal OAV cleanup the next day, high 30's maybe 40*. None dead at first winter hive check.

Have you used oa dribble at below freezing temperatures? the result?


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

No, I have never used OAD in any temp, only OAV. However at least two very good -and successful -commercial beekeepers in my area have been using OAD for the broodless period treatment for several years, and preferably in cold temps so the bees are tidily clustered and less likely to fly out. 

At least one sometimes posts here and may see this and describe their results. It must be satisfactory, otherwise they wouldn't repeat it.

Not my cup of tea, but an option if you are worried about low temps. Personally, I would just wait for the right temps and then seize the opportunity.

Enj.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

For better exposure I use the smoker when doing the winter OAV treatment. Several puffs of smoke in the entrance before treating temporarily loosens up the cluster and gets the bees fanning. I'm sure it would cut down on the number of bees flying out of the hive as well.


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## Rob Hughes (Apr 23, 2012)

Thanks to all for the opinions. It's interesting how variable the reported responses are to oav treatment. My bees have so far never come out in any numbers afterwards or exhibited defensive behaviour, usually just a few come out around the entrance and are grooming themselves off, but that's about it. I (like Mike) usually give them a puff or two of smoke ahead of the treatment. I think I will wait for now and hope for a mild break sometime, although it's looking like a lengthy cold spell is beginning...

Enj, what's your forecast source for a pre-Xmas warm snap? Here it looks solidly below freezing up to the 22nd.

Rob


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## dudelt (Mar 18, 2013)

My bees always come out in large numbers when vaporizing but only because I am messing with the entrance and sticking something in the hive. When I do the winter treatment, I never see any bees but the temperature is always just about 45 degrees when I do it.


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## fatshark (Jun 17, 2009)

kaizen said:


> my concern is oav always gets my bees whipped up and they come out to defend. i'm low on population so really don't want to purposely sacrifice any bees. I know they will come out flying. land and freeze. nothing above 40 in my area either for 2 weeks at least. actually stop sending it down Rob.


If you use one of the 'active' vaporisers like a Sublimox - which just squirts OAV through a hole in the side wall of the hive - they barely get agitated at all. I did all mine yesterday. I just left the entrance blocks in for few minutes after treating and then gently removed them ... the bees stayed put. If you observe what's happening through a perspex crownboard the bees are really very calm. 

I guess the heat from the Varrox tray, or sliding it through the entrance, is what gets them 'whipped up'.

Dribbling is fine at low temps. Use warmed - not hot - syrup and keep it in an insulated flask before dispensing. Works well on the mites but damages open brood.


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## kaizen (Mar 20, 2015)

fatshark said:


> If you use one of the 'active' vaporisers like a Sublimox - which just squirts OAV through a hole in the side wall of the hive - they barely get agitated at all. I did all mine yesterday. I just left the entrance blocks in for few minutes after treating and then gently removed them ... the bees stayed put. If you observe what's happening through a perspex crownboard the bees are really very calm.
> 
> I guess the heat from the Varrox tray, or sliding it through the entrance, is what gets them 'whipped up'.
> 
> Dribbling is fine at low temps. Use warmed - not hot - syrup and keep it in an insulated flask before dispensing. Works well on the mites but damages open brood.


Yes i'm sure its me taking off the entrance reducer, which lets in cold, and then me inserting the wand. I really want to get into the heat gun type ones but this is my only my 2nd year and I don't want to put out the funds yet for it plus a generator. I also hate the idea of me out on the borrowed land my bees are on and firing up one of those generators that wake the dead. If my bees make it through the winter I will probably figure out something next year.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

enjambres said:


> No, I have never used OAD in any temp, only OAV. However at least two very good -and successful -commercial beekeepers in my area have been using OAD for the broodless period treatment for several years, and preferably in cold temps so the bees are tidily clustered and less likely to fly out.
> 
> At least one sometimes posts here and may see this and describe their results. It must be satisfactory, otherwise they wouldn't repeat it.
> 
> ...


Maybe they are satisfied that any loss due to oad treatment at below freezing temperatures is less than the number of weak slow building spring hives they'd have without treating.
In any case I would like to hear more. Perhaps I know these 2 commercial beekeepers?


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

dlbrightjr said:


> I looked this up recently and found that it needs to be above 37F while doing it and for 2 hours after.


That is correct


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

Mike Gillmore said:


> For better exposure I use the smoker when doing the winter OAV treatment. Several puffs of smoke in the entrance before treating temporarily loosens up the cluster and gets the bees fanning. I'm sure it would cut down on the number of bees flying out of the hive as well.



I agree and use this method if it's below 45°F


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