# crimson clover for bees' use?



## mlanden

I'm thinking of using c.c as a cover crop over the winter for my tiny veg garden. Guessing that the bees'll like it, but .... how should I address it reseeding to keep it from becoming a weed? An old neighbor of mine used the c.c a while back and said he could never get rid of it in his yard; the zillions of seeds kept sprouting.
and 
Is it maybe just a matter of timing -- zapping the seed-heads once they're mostly spent and the bees've made full use of them?


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## Brad Bee

I planted 3 acres of CC this past fall and it looked like a sea of Crimson in the field this spring. It was largely ignored by the honeybees although bumblebees were all over it. 

Regarding the reseeding, if you use a clover as a cover crop why would you not want it to reseed for the next year? 

Regardless, after my experience I would suggest planting something else instead.


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## Dave Burrup

All clovers and alfalfa have a high percentage of hard, dormant, seed. Even if you are able to remove all of the flowers before they mature seed, you will have plants coming up for years. We planted crimson clover and the bees could not have cared less for it.


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## tech.35058

After declaring that my honey bees did not care for my bro-in-laws CC last year, this year somebodies honeys were all over it.
I am told that clover is persistent, wife wont let me plant in garden, but Bro-in-law does every year. he plows & seems to have no problems.
It may be that the variety has too "big/deep" flower that the honeys can not work, but bumbles can.
I have been advised to cut the first bloom ( of other clovers) , the second blooms will be smaller & bees can work fine.
In our area, other nectar sources start earlier in the spring, & the Crimson & red clover is all ready done in.
If you can tolerate the taste of the honey, "Mancan" Buckwheat can be rotated until frost. it will come up next year, but is pretty easily controlled.
Good Luck with your bees. CE


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## beepro

You said tiny garden area. Why not blow torch flame the area while the seedlings are
sprouting before planting?


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## mrflegel

As I understand it the honey bee tongues is too short to reach the nectar in crimson clover. I planted some buckwheat to get them thru the hard times coming up. I have had to water it to get it thru the dry periods we have been having.
Best of luck
mike


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## mlanden

beepro said:


> You said tiny garden area. Why not blow torch flame the area while the seedlings are
> sprouting before planting?


Hi --by "tiny", I meant ~1600 sq ft. That's tiny to me, and I'm guessing a blowtorch wouldn't be practical.


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## mlanden

Obliged, guys; sounds like c. clover may not be the way to go for my honeys. I noticed this year, though, that when I let my garden greens from last autumn bolt (spinach, mustard, rape, kale, turnip, broccoli, etc) by end-o-winter, the bees had a field day on the blooms. I may just stick with that. A win-win: the girls get lots of pollen/nectar, and I get all the greens and turnips I want. Best wishes with your bee work, too.


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## AHudd

mrflegel said:


> As I understand it the honey bee tongues is too short to reach the nectar in crimson clover. I planted some buckwheat to get them thru the hard times coming up. I have had to water it to get it thru the dry periods we have been having.
> Best of luck
> mike


Crimson clover is often confused with Red clover. I think it is because Crimson clover is a much deeper red than Red clover, which is more of a rose pink.
I have seen photos on seed web sites of Crimson clover being described as Red clover, adding to the confusion. Here is some good info.
https://plants.usda.gov/plantguide/pdf/pg_trin3.pdf

Alex


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## Brad Bee

Alex, I too think it gets confused but I've read multiple sources say that Crimson is used by honeybees. Mine WAS used, but not near enough to justify planting it. Crimson clover is cheap and nothing could be easier to plant in an established pasture or hay field, but I never saw more than a handful of honeybees in 3 acres of pristine blooming CC.


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## AHudd

Brad- another surprise for me was reading about how much nectar Privet provides. The bees I have don't touch it, possible because this year the Blackberries were so intense while the Privet was blooming.
I bought 5 lbs of Crimson to plant to see if it works in this area. At least I'll have a good cover crop on a site of a future deer plot.

Alex


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## Andrew Dewey

The plants bees choose to forage on is fascinating. Many times I've planted things that I thought the bees would love, only to have them forage on something else they liked better! I've concluded that plantings should be for all pollinators and if I happen to plant something that my bees like and actively use, so much the better! Another thing I'm bad at is knowing when a plant (that I'm not familiar with) is giving nectar. I've noticed bees working tired old blooms in preference to new blooms. I wonder when plants start giving nectar, and if they are like buckwheat, giving nectar at certain times of day. We've had a bunch of blooms after a rain, for example, but the bees wait. We had our first Evening Primrose this morning; other things like the wild raspberries have been in bloom for several weeks but the bees only paid attention to them the first few days!


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## Brad Bee

AHudd said:


> Brad- another surprise for me was reading about how much nectar Privet provides.
> Alex


I'd like to see what you read. What did it say about privet?


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## johno

I have about 2 acres of crimson clover the Dixie variety, and have also broadcast some oilseed rape with it. The rape flowers first then the clover and my bees are all over both although not tis year as we had about 26 consecutive days of rain over the clover bloom period. Then again geographical location could make a difference as something else that the bees prefer could be blooming at the same time.
Johno


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## AHudd

Brad,
I have read many comments here on BeeSource such as " waiting for Privet to bloom" and similar comments from mostly Northern beeks if my memory serves me correctly.
We had good Spring weather this year, so I know their lack of interest wasn't weather related.
Alex


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## brooksbeefarm

Brad, i've read that honey from oilseed Rape has a unpleasant taste? have you tried it? This thread has got my dobber down i bought 100 lbs. of cc to sow ( this fall) where i had some dozing done in a wooded area that i have 12 hives, i've read that bees work it hard? i guess the deer and turkey will like it.


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## Brad Bee

Alex, I've read them too. We have literally an unlimited amount of privet. It grows everywhere here where it isn't killed out. Our largest field is 35 acres and the entire perimeter of the field at the woods edge is privet. When it blooms you can smell it inside our house. I know the bees get pollen from it and I'm sure they get some nectar but I've never seen it worked like I would have imagined that it was. Maybe it's because there is so much of it the bees are scattered.

brooks, I have no experience with Rape.


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## clyderoad

AHudd said:


> Brad,
> I have read many comments here on BeeSource such as " waiting for Privet to bloom" and similar comments from mostly Northern beeks if my memory serves me correctly.
> We had good Spring weather this year, so I know their lack of interest wasn't weather related.
> Alex


blackberry bloom is well over with by the time "our" privet blooms. blackberrys already have berries on them while privet is blooming as we speak. 
bees are on collecting nectar and white pollen.


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## AHudd

Here, the Privet blooms at about the same time as the Blackberries are beginning to wind down. The BB bloom was enormous this year, so that may be the reason for the lack of interest in Privet. It may be different next year.

They do work the Persimmon, both male and female, no matter what is blooming.

Alex


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## Tim KS

I planted 4 acres of a clover mix last fall. I include a 18" tall white early clover, a tall yellow clover, an even taller white clover, and a reddish or crimson clover. I was disappointed in all of them. I saw very few bees working any of them. Sure there were some, but not like I hoped. They bloomed in the order that I listed them, co there was and still are flowers there. Hopefully next year will be different.


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## SS Auck

brooksbeefarm said:


> Brad, i've read that honey from oilseed Rape has a unpleasant taste? have you tried it? This thread has got my dobber down i bought 100 lbs. of cc to sow ( this fall) where i had some dozing done in a wooded area that i have 12 hives, i've read that bees work it hard? i guess the deer and turkey will like it.


dont get too upset people on here are still confused on crimson vs red. the CC i have seen in mo is usually covered with honeybees. deer are in it too in the spring and winter time.


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## mlanden

Andrew Dewey said:


> We've had a bunch of blooms after a rain, for example, but the bees wait.


I've heard that rain rinses away lots of nectar, so that could be the reason your girls aren't busy w/ the blooms then. Here in eastern NC, we've had the rainiest year in history, I think, so I'm guessing the bees've had a rough time with nectar collection ...


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## crmauch

Tim KS said:


> I planted 4 acres of a clover mix last fall. I include a 18" tall white early clover, a tall yellow clover, an even taller white clover, and a reddish or crimson clover. I was disappointed in all of them. I saw very few bees working any of them. Sure there were some, but not like I hoped. They bloomed in the order that I listed them, co there was and still are flowers there. Hopefully next year will be different.


I believe the two tall clovers (yellow and white) are likely to be sweet clover. I believe the sweet clovers and crimson clovers are annuals (though will reseed). 

I only have a small patch of crimson clover, and I have some honey bees working it. I think it's (usually) fairly easy to discern crimson and red clovers. As a plant crimson is fairly low-growing and looks somewhat like the "dutch white" perennial clover that gets into our yards. Red clover as a plant looks like it's on steroids and is much bigger plant and leaves overall. Crimson clover flower is not quite round and is rather small. As the flower ages turns somewhat into a small spike. Red clover generally has a bigger flower and the flower does not turn into as much of a "spike" as it ages.


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## mlanden

Tim KS said:


> I planted 4 acres of a clover mix last fall. I include a 18" tall white early clover, a tall yellow clover, an even taller white clover, and a reddish or crimson clover. I was disappointed in all of them. QUOTE]
> 
> I've decided to go with basic garden greens -- which can serve as "green manure" and be good for meals -- rape, mustard, kale, spinach, turnip, broccoli, beets. I planted mine last summer, feasted through the winter, and let 'em bolt in late winter/early spring -- and my bees went crazy for the flowers. There must be major pollen/nectar supplies there. Once the blooms became seeds, I just turned the plants over in the soil and ..... no issues. A # sprouted, of course, but ..... they're ready for meals then, too. My meals, I mean. It's a win-win-win. From what I'm reading of the clovers, vetch, etc, they mostly sound like a pain, are useless for kitchen purposes, and not that attractive to the honeybees.


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## johno

Here are some pics of my crimson clover, the Dixie variety.


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## Brad Bee

This is a picture of a portion of mine. It sure was pretty but it sure was mostly ignored by the honeybees


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## Brad Bee

Trying to get a better picture loaded....



Yeah it worked! Many thanks to jwcarlson


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