# Swarm trap size



## Harley Craig

I haven't tried them but plan to this spring, but hear that 8 frame deeps are about perfect.


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## J.Walters

My 2¢... Tom Seeley did a presentation at the Ohio State Beekeepers Convention, he has done tons of studies with volume (liters), openings of the bait hive, the height to hang the hives and using bait lure or not. He said the Best Results - 8 frame deep, old drawn comb in the middle with foundation on the sides, hanging at 10' / 15' in the air. He was not sold on lure, but the lemon grass smell will help.

My results from working with Dwight (my beekeeping mentor) and combining it with Tom Seeley. Using old 8 frame deep, with an entrance of 2 sq inches (square or circular), old drawn comb in the center, solid top, solid bottom, and hanging from 10' / 12' in height... I have been hanging out 8 bait hives per year, 1st year - 4 swarms, 2nd - 5 swarms, 3rd - 3 swarms, and last year 5 swarms. I've purchased some essential oils & 0.6ml graduated plastic microcentrifuge vials to put swarm lure into (recipe from Dwight) to see if it increases my odds out of 8 hives. 

Good Luck,


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## enjambres

Is hanging better than being fixed to something? And color - is subtlety mainly to avoid human notice, or do the bees like it better. 

I was planning on setting my trap on a removable tree stand I liberated from a poacher in my woodlot.

Enj.


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## J.Walters

enjambres said:


> Is hanging better than being fixed to something? And color - is subtlety mainly to avoid human notice, or do the bees like it better.
> 
> I was planning on setting my trap on a removable tree stand I liberated from a poacher in my woodlot.
> 
> Enj.


If you notice, I have eye bolts in front and back of every box. This way I can hang them (blue box) or put them against an old barn (silver box) I do both, just depends on where I can get them up in the air. I have all kinds of colors (mixmatched paint at Menards/Lowes - cheapest) the same results with all of the colors. The tree stand idea would be perfect, but just remember...once a swarm inhabits your bait box, it will become heavy / very quickly. If you can rig up eye bolts or sling so you can lower it down to the ground would be in your best interest.


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## Tenbears

I use 8 frame deeps for my swarm traps. I do not worry about hauling them up into trees. I place them about 6 feet of the ground on easily attacked braces. last year I caught 37 swarms.


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## beefarmer

tenbears, how many traps do you put out ? do you put them close to bee yards or is that not necessary ?


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## Tenbears

I have 15 traps. I place them anywhere I think to be a likely spot. I am 70 so being able to get a 4 wheeler to the spot is important to me. and that has a bearing on where the traps go. I have one about 50 yards from each apiary, as well as an empty hive in the apiary at all times. That often yields a surprise. Some of my spots are near known bee trees, some are just in some woods that look good. some go back to the same place every year, while some I never return to. I keep placing a trap near an old house that has two huge hives in it, and have never caught a swarm there. While I have a spot by the river that I can not find a bee hive for miles but it gets swarms every year.


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## GaryG74

There are free plans for a swarm trap and a free "guide to Attracting Honeybees" on the Horizontal Hive web site. I used those plans to make traps that work well. http://horizontalhive.com and http://horizontalhive.com/how-to-build/swarm-trap-free-plans.shtml
Good luck trapping swarms this year.
I had to edit the first address, it wasn't working. Once on the site, click on "swarms" and it brings up the swarm catching guide.


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## SHAWHANBEEK

I mount a 6 foot 2x4 on the back of my trap that hangs down so I can push the trap up the tree 
8 to 10 feet without a ladder.



wfarler said:


> Ok I have spent a lot of time researching swarm trap sizes. It appears the only university research was limited to a study by Cornell (Sealey and Marsh). They test 3 sizes 10, 40 and 100 liters and decided 40 was best.
> 
> I don't really find that to be helpful beyond 'don't make your Bait hive too small or too big. A nuc is about 20 liters, a deep about 40. I wish they had tested in a range around those sizes.
> 
> I am putting up a bunch of traps and just was curious. I have a bunch of NUCs to use and the thought of hauling an occupied deep down from a tree is not appealing. I have seen mention of adding a 3" rim on the bottom of a nuc - that would bring it up to 27 liters. It is just that I am not sure about shooting for 40 liters when the evidence is not very well tested hauling it up a tree seems unappealing.
> 
> Lots of folks successfully use NUCs as traps. Those flower pot traps are a little bigger than 40liters.
> 
> Just curious if anyone has done their own research or seen something that was rigorous.


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## jadebees

An 8 frame deep is an excellent size. It is very well accepted. You do not need to place the lure higher than you can reach, from the ground. Who came up with that, anyway? We keep them on the ground, forever, in beeyards. I put mine on hive stands and I do better than in trees . My percentage went up, & now I can easily do 3 times the swarm lures.


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## aunt betty

There is some value in placing swarm traps high. We set up a house that kept getting swarms last summer.
One trap was on a first floor balcony and the second was on the second floor. One location caught 4 swarms and the other 1. 
Which one do you think caught the most bees and why?


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## BuckeyeBeek

Check out the video... https://youtu.be/rarIzlNisws I put out 5 traps last year and caught 2 swarms. This year I'm putting out 10-15 traps in hopes of increasing my numbers. This trap was built from scrap materials and its a 30 liter volume design that will hold 4 frames up top. Traps are baited with a frame of old drawn comb, a frame with some honey left over from a dead out, along with a few drops of lemongrass oil. Traps are hung about 7 feet off the the ground from a nail in a tree. Also check out my trapped swarm #2 capture here... https://youtu.be/gE0bCJAbPy4 Good luck!


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## wfarler

thanks, i found Sweeney publication here: http://www.biobees.com/library/research_bees/apis/Bait Hives for Honey Bees.pdf

and Great videa here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnnjY823e-w


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## PaulT

First time making a swarm trap. had a too small box I split and added to with scrap wood to make this. fits 9 frames. I'm hoping the bees aren't too picky since it did not cost me anything. The drone just came home after spending 7 months in a tree. Charged the battery and it flew fine!


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## Michael Bush

O.D. Frank is the king of swarm trapping. Do a search and you can see what he has to say...

My experience is that the bees are that I AM sold on lemongrass essential oil as lure and the bees will move into anything from a five frame deep, a eight frame medium (same volume as the five frame deep) or a ten frame deep with about equal odds of a swarm moving in. But as Oliver says, you can't catch a large swarm in a small trap...

Use what is handy. Use what is cheap. Use things that had bees in them before. Bait them with lemongrass essential oil. Old equipment works best, but if I were making something special to catch swarms for my setup, I'd use one by 12s for the sides and not rip them (11 1/4") and make them to take 8 Langstroth frames and put 8 medium foundationless frames in them. That way IF I'm slow and they fill the frames and fill the space below the frames, I can cut the combs off and rubber band them into frames. But hopefully I'll get them soon enough to avoid that. Meanwhile they are a bit taller than wide so I can fit them in the crotch of a tree better. Or, I have built them with 1/8" luan. They are lighter to carry up and down the ladder... and cheaper than the one bys...


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## PaulT

Sounds like solid advice. I have two boxes made close to the average of what combined comments found gave. Have some old frames to use and I'll mix up a little lemongrass oil, melted wax and veggie oil to make a paste to smear in the box and put a cotton swab in a baggie. I understand a little goes a long way. Thinking about adding a neon "Vacancy" sign as well.


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## odfrank

"O.D. Frank is the king of swarm trapping.". Thank you Michael, hearing that coming from you makes me feel giddy.

This years models were made from old rotten eight frame deeps. As I knew no history I torched the inside for AFB control. I cut the rotten tops or bottoms off of twelve to make six jumbo depth green ones. The good boxes made eight deep depth traps. I like to pickup at night with no smoke or bee suit so I always add an entrance disc to traps for quick closure. This year I also added feeder jar holes to the lids. I add "odfrank beveled cleat handles" to all my boxes. I never place a trap higher than I can reach from the ground. I will be baiting with all old black comb because once again I suffered massive treatment free dieoff. I use both LGO and Swarm Lure Commander, sometimes combined.


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## Cyan

I had 3 traps out last year- 2 which were roughly the size of 10 frame deeps, and 1 that was about the size of a 8 frame medium.

I noticed a lot of activity around the larger traps but it was the smaller trap that won out- I'm guessing because the scouts were part of a smaller swarm and knew what was ideal.

Regardless, I'll be at it again this year with even more traps but of a few different sizes. The bees know what they need, so I'll allow for some options. After all, smaller swarms are better than no swarms.


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## Fishmaster50

So I got different size boxes but what's the best for inside them? I am reading to put a old drawn comb to one side. Do you put empty frames ( with starter strip?) ? Or just leave the rest empty? How bout another frame of foundation? Thanks


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## Riverderwent

Fishmaster50 said:


> So I got different size boxes but what's the best for inside them? I am reading to put a old drawn comb to one side.


Using a frame with old drawn comb instead of just loose comb allows the queen to start laying and helps avoid wonky comb being built in random open space near a piece of loose comb. 



> Do you put empty frames ( with starter strip?) ? Or just leave the rest empty?


Empty foundationless frames.



> How bout another frame of foundation?


Not me. Others do.


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## rweaver7777

I have plenty of drawn comb. Would you still recommend only ONE old comb per trap? Thanks...


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## GaryG74

Not sure who the question was directed to but I'll give my thoughts on it. I use only one old frame, the rest with starter strips since a swarm is a comb building machine, you get a lot of new comb fast. Others use more drawn comb or full sheets of foundation in the other frames and have a good capture rate on their traps. Guess the answer would be to use what you have, but most only use one old comb frame.


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## don52

Wow! one of the best bee videos ever.
https://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?321198-Swarm-trap-size

Thanks wfarler!


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