# Hive brackets



## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

They obviously have the decimal point in the wrong place!


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## dixiebooks (Jun 21, 2010)

I sure hope so. -james


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## Beev (Jul 16, 2011)

Must be a typo. $900 for 1,8,14 0r 25 sets. $9000 for 50 sets.


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## MichaBees (Sep 26, 2010)

For the price, I would just choose to buy new equipment.


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## valleyman (Nov 24, 2009)

I won't be buying any stock in their folly.


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## Mtn. Bee (Nov 10, 2009)

Sure like the idea (been thinking about a similiar design lately)!
I checked out there website earlier and I think they were around $18.00 for 4 (1 box worth).
They had economy and the more deluxe models available.
And yes, pretty pricey I thought!


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## beehivestate (Oct 14, 2009)

The Eco Bee Box bracket price error was due to not yet being available. The larger sizes are available and priced with free shipping. The shallow and mediums brackets are in production. 

These brackets claim to prevent warping, can be taken apart in fall for storage, and prevent damage to corners from hive tools.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

Good example of why you never publish a web page unless it is finished. "Under construction" Is a great way to loose customers. Anyone ever tried finding Hurricane Anchors that will work for the corners of boxes?

Oops I guess Framing Anchor would be a better name for them this link is just an example. They have many many variations.
http://www.sabrefix.co.uk/products_timbertotimber_view.php?id=6


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## Fishman43 (Sep 26, 2011)

Framing anchors are available at any HD, Lowes or other decently stocked home building supply company.


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## dixiebooks (Jun 21, 2010)

I wouldn't call it a folly. It's great idea. However, the pricing will have to be competitive with similar products. I hope they'll be able to do that. -james


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## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

I'm not sure I see the advantage. $21.50 for a set of the deep economy brackets for corners and the additional cost of the wood for the sides, or $17.50 for a select grade deep hive body ready to be assembled from a major supplier. Seems to me that the brackets are roughly twice the cost of a select-grade hive body. What's the advantage to these brackets?


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## beehivestate (Oct 14, 2009)

Framing anchors don't solve warping, nor do they provide box strength (diagonal). Perhaps if you put them on the inside and outside these framing anchors would be comparable, but would still lack size variations, are heavy, would need to be modified, eventually would rust to mention a few.


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## Riskybizz (Mar 12, 2010)

I can't wait to take apart all my stored supers for the winter, only to have to put them all back together again in the spring. And then what would I do with all my frames? Re-invent the wheel? No thanks.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

21.50 for the regular deep bracket or 26.50 for the heavy duty deep bracket....wow, that's pricey. Even if the decimal was off by one position, I'm not sure I'd spend $2.65 for a set. How much extra life can you expect/need for wooden ware? With decent paint you should get more than 10 years out of a box, even economy grade wood. Kind of feel bad for this company, as they clearly invested in the design as well as a website, but I'm afraid that the market will not support such a solution.


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## dixiebooks (Jun 21, 2010)

AstroBee said:


> 21.50 for the regular deep bracket or 26.50 for the heavy duty deep bracket....wow, that's pricey. Even if the decimal was off by one position, I'm not sure I'd spend $2.65 for a set. <snip>... but I'm afraid that the market will not support such a solution.


I agree with you here. $2.65 sounds about the right price - perhaps 5 or 6 with S&H. Any more would bump the cost of the hive body too far above normal to make it economical. Just my humble opinion. I do hope they can get the price down. -james


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

How many pounds would those add to a semi load of beehives?


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## Mtn. Bee (Nov 10, 2009)

Don't forget they are not your typical galv. brackets, they are made out of alum. (shouldn't rust) and do attach on the inside of one board and outside of other.
At least that is what the deeps stated.
Definitely too pricey!


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## beehivestate (Oct 14, 2009)

Today we pay $5 - $7 for a fast food meal, $3 for a bag of chips, $2 for a gallon of water, $3 -$4 for a gallon of gas, manufacturing wages are $25+ per hour, min wage is over $7 an hour. We may be missing the additional benefits of the Eco bracket. 

Here are a few benefits worth considering:

- can use local lumber rather than paying shipping for heavy lumber
- can use softer lighter materials for hive bodies, such as cedar, cypress, and even Styrofoam
- protects the box from impacts
- has a corner that resists damage from the hive tool
- adds protection to weaker areas of the box such as area around frame rest
- can recycle older boxes into new boxes quickly
- has greater diagonal strength than the traditional box
- can custom build boxes
- uses screws in side grain away from ends
- can be pre-painted rather than painted after assembly
- can be disassembled and panels put through a thickness plainer to look new again
- brackets can hold up to 1/8" thicker and 1/8" thinner boards
- doesn't add much weight to the hive
- has a locking clip that attaches to metal (rather than wood) and joins multiple boxes
- can use non-traditional lumber such as plywood
- can take more abuse on the box corners than a traditional box
- can be used with other traditional boxes in forming the hive
- quick to repair if a panel is damaged
- light weight metal and won't rust
- will out last traditional wood dado corner joint
- comes in varied sizes - deep, medium, shallow, with others to follow
- custom Nuc, swarm and queen rearing box easy to make
- the bracket adds vertical strength for weaker lumber and Styrofoam
- don't need to use lengthy screws, glue or fillers
- other uses possible, such as storage boxes, stepping stools, planter boxes, construction, etc
- resistant to warping and will actually help straighten lumber
- 100% American made
- free shipping is included

Here is the home page link.

http://www.EcoBeeBox.com

View attachment 788
View attachment 789


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## Mtn. Bee (Nov 10, 2009)

beehivestate,
Some excellent points!
I like the ideal!


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## beehivestate (Oct 14, 2009)

Mtn. Bee said:


> Don't forget they are not your typical galv. brackets, they are made out of alum. (shouldn't rust) and do attach on the inside of one board and outside of other.
> At least that is what the deeps stated.
> Definitely too pricey!


Actually, they attach on the inside of both boards and outside of both boards. Also light weight compared to galv. steel. Galv. steel in this case has two draw-backs, one is that it is four times the weight of aluminum and two, galv. steel does eventually rust. If the galv. process is added prior to forming, then the edges and bends would rust. Another option is reinforced plastic, but is bulky, similar weight to aluminum, and is weaker compared to metal.

See video and picture.




View attachment 790


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

How exactly has this product made beekeeping "easier and more Earth Friendly" "saving trees and bees"?


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## Jim 134 (Dec 1, 2007)

Is madeing galv. steel Earth Friendly :s


BEE HAPPY Jim 134


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Ian said:


> How exactly has this product made beekeeping "easier and more Earth Friendly" "saving trees and bees"?


The long sides of the box are 1 1/2" shorter, there is 4% wood savings. You could salvage boxes with rotten corners, there is another wood savings. You've got those nail holes to aim into which makes screwing easier. You can pre-paint the sides which should make them last longer. 
That they about triple the cost of a commercial box, I have to ponder that savings. They sure look sexy.


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## beehivestate (Oct 14, 2009)

True there is some saving in lumber, and is easier for the box suppliers to make Eco Bee Box panels. The the earth friendly issues extend further.

Being able to use recycled lumber from your local area. My top boards and bottom boards are reclaimed plywood coated in beewax and pine resin. This bracket allows for sides to be made out of the same materials. 

Being able to reclaim portions of the old box into new boxes is another factor and is simple to do, as seen in the photo prior.

Opening the door to other materials, such as Styrofoam, slows down the amount of trees needed for boxes.

I know some will claim Styrofoam isn't eco friendly, however the Styrofoam I use is made by Insulfoam and one of their claims is: "Environmentally Friendly. It contains no formaldehyde or ozone-depleting CFC's or HCFC's, may contain recycled material and is 100% recyclable if ever removed or replaced."

Paints also have been an issue in the past. Paints have fungicides and in the past even leads. Why are boxes painted? The traditional style corner box needed paint to help it withstand the elements and not warp and nails rust. This bracket is formed in such a way that painting isn't as important as in the past. Many boxes, even a couple years old, have paint gone or peeling. At some point the beekeeper has to spend time sanding and scraping paint and finding an area suitable to repaint. I have tried vinyl skins, like car wraps. It is easy and quick to put on and holds to the wood very well. With the deluxe bracket, vinyl skins hold up well as the corners are protected from the hive tool. The vinyl skins also open the way for logos and personal features. Skins can have the hive appear to be a dog house instead of a bee hive for those that have snoopy neighbors. "That isn't a beehive, that is a dog house for Butch". Can even have the hive look like anything you want. In our day when city after city is banning bees, this may be a way to fight back. In ten years what will we find in our paints that cause harm?


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## brushmouth (Jan 17, 2010)

Interior metal will wick the heat to the outside and will be coated with frost in our climate.
The resulting additional moisture buildup could encourage mold in the interior.
It may be useful for supers and nucs but I would never give it a consideration for the brood nest or 
overwinter supers. 
Wood is a lot less expensive than metal anyway? 

BM


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I love the versatility. If the price was right I could see this. I think even at the prices listed for the deeps, they would be useful for repairs when you have one bad corner. After all you can reuse the bracket when you finally give up on the box...

These would also be nice for building a long hive since you'd only need one set of brackets for the whole hive.

But it seems like I can buy boxes cheaper than a full set of brackets.


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## Laurence Hope (Aug 24, 2005)

I, too, like them. If I were a young man just starting out in beekeeping, I might invest in them even at their seemingly high price. All in all, after years of use, they well may pay for themselves. I could cut boards myself for my boxes, and replace them whenever necessary. I can scrounge a lot of lumber here and there, but cannot make the finger joints myself without more expensive equipment, and I don't care for just the straight dado cut joints due to weakness.
My age is the limiting factor. For any boxes I now make, the majority, with reasonable care, will probably last until I stop beekeeping. The overall cost will be lesser with my current system. My other thought is that for someone with only a few hives it may really be a good thing. So, young beekeepers with a few hives go for it. Pass them on when you sell out, or to your children.

I wish the very best for this out of the box thinking entrepreneur, beehivestate. Ideas like these are what can make beekeeping, or anything else for that matter, more productive.


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## max2 (Dec 24, 2009)

I can see good points ....but some of the " advantages" are a little far-fetched. In my experience, we Beekeepers are rather slow adaptors. We stick with what we know. So, a good idea but I have my doubts that it will take off. As far as " Eco - friendly" - Aluminium has a huge embodied energy


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

I am left with three concerns.
First the minor one. Aluminum over steel is not necessarily a plus. I will say I could only address this concern by using them though.
Second is my experience with brackets of various types failing. Think of hinges coming out of cabinets. Have you tested these over time? 

Finally is the cost. I can my an assembled box for $9. I simply cannot see myself adding this much cost to that box any time soon. Maybe if I was going to be moving my boxes frequently. I also need to consider that framing anchors that woudl also work would cost more like $2.80 to $5.60 per box when ordered in cases of 100 brackets. Not at all an apples to apples comparison but it is an alternative also having its pluses and minuses.

I like the design it looks as if it would address many of the causes of brackets failing. possibly make the construction of boxes simple and possible for many. Maybe even faster for others.

I do see this as a possible answer for those that cannot cut stronger joints such as finger or dovetail joints for their boxes. I woudl not recommend dado or butt joints for hive boxes. But many simply do not have the tools or skills to make anything but a dado or butt joint. Without a Hauncher cutting finger joints would require far more time than the use of these brackets.

I see this system almost eliminates the need for skill in building boxes. A person needing a large number of boxes has to think about there time cost as well. You can put time and skill into make a joint that will last longer. or you could put the money into these brackets and either save your own time or even pay a person with little or no skill to assemble them.

That might be a window where these brackets fit price and all.


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## beehivestate (Oct 14, 2009)

brushmouth said:


> Interior metal will wick the heat to the outside and will be coated with frost in our climate.
> The resulting additional moisture buildup could encourage mold in the interior.
> It may be useful for supers and nucs but I would never give it a consideration for the brood nest or
> overwinter supers.
> ...


The "wick" heat element was not a factor in Utah during the heat of summer. Molds in the hive during winter are due to poor air circulation.


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## valleyman (Nov 24, 2009)

Michael Bush said:


> I love the versatility.
> But it seems like I can buy boxes cheaper than a full set of brackets.


I wish them well, but this is exactly the reason that they will not be selling lots of these. I fully understand the complexity of manufacturing these. Therefore I know the reason for the price that will not be reduced much because of the process. You would need to make/set up a jig to hold these in place for assembly. I still will not be buying any of the stock in the company for this reason. Good luck!!


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## beehivestate (Oct 14, 2009)

valleyman said:


> You would need to make/set up a jig to hold these in place for assembly.


Valleyman,

You mention a jig needed for assembly. Where do you get that from? 

Traditional hive boxes go together better with a clamp jig due to warping and dado variations, BUT the bracket you are kicking doesn't need a jig. I have set up many of them and they don't need a jig, unless you are perhaps missing a limb then a jig would be advised. But that would go without saying. 

I am always impressed with those that have developed new items and have plowed new ground. There may be set-backs, obstacles and problems. Items such as this bracket were developed through steps, there might be a few more. In the end it is a simple design, strong construction, versatile, attractive, and it works better than the traditional hive bodies. I have a number of different box joints being used in my apiary, but I simply love the reinforced bracket style the best. Adding the simple locking clip and it is an incredible hive body.


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## valleyman (Nov 24, 2009)

beehivestate,
I am not knocking the hive brackets. their design looks well thought and the product itself looks quality. The price (which I understand why it is what it is) is not cost effective when I can buy new hive bodys for $12.50 and with 2 coats of oops stain (usually Cabot) that cost $5.00 at my local Lowes, and will do many boxes that will last for many years.

As to the subject of a jig, I spent the last 25 years of my working life as a Millwright-welder- tinsmith. I built many jigs for the assembly of parts for the Corvette. ANYTIME you are assembling parts, even hive bodies, the assembly process goes much more accurate and speedy with a jig. Granted if you are only doing a few, by hand would suffice, but it you're doing a 1000 then you need a jig. I wish you nothing but luck on your product they are just not for me. If I had a metal brake and a box break I could make them myself.


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## beehivestate (Oct 14, 2009)

Thanks for the response Vallyman,

The stain is an okay solution but with the humidity inside the hive boxes tend to warp out at the top and bottom. Unless you use 3-4" grabber screws. I have bought boxes and after a week in my garage they are warped and extremely difficult to assemble. Then there are the breaks and chips we end up having to repair over time. Are you telling me your hives need no repair after a bit of Cabot stain? Liquid carbon fiber!!

No hive tool damage.
No tedious hours repairing boxes that warp or are chipped.
When a panel covered with Cabot does break or crack, you can replace it with virtually any lumber.
In 10 years when your boxes do need replacing, you would already own the bracket.
In the mean-time you will have what ODFRANK called a sexy hive!!

Even for you this bracket would be a good fit.

Cost to buy panels from the box suppliers is cheaper without the dado. That savings can go toward the purchase of the bracket.


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## dixiebooks (Jun 21, 2010)

I just checked ecobeebox.com again and it appears the prices have been lowered. I think I'll give them a try and see how they work out. -james


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