# Trapout suggestions needed



## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

Send me an e-mail... [email protected] and I will send you a 12 page document (with photos of trapouts in progress,) that will explain how to do a trapout.

No charge, and no salesman will call.

cchoganjr


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## BackYardPhenomena (Jul 11, 2012)

Instead of trap outs in otherwise impermeable or hard to cut out structures, I've been sealing off all but two entry exit points, and driving the entire hive out with smoke. The queen will follow the crowd, you can nab her then.


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## gasdoc (Apr 27, 2014)

How long do you have to smoke them for before they evacuate?


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## BackYardPhenomena (Jul 11, 2012)

I begin with a few puffs to encourage them to devour nectar and prepare to vacate. I then increase the smoking with long persistent puffs. Then pause and let them collect on the outside. They will congregate towards the front entrance of the hive. Take this opportunity to 1. watch for the queen and 2. move bees with hands, tools, etc. to the box you have set up. Increase smoking and pause, each time moving bees to the box. Once you have a large amount of bees fanning from your box set up, increase the smoke and really let it fill every cavity of their hive. This causes them to completely abscond. It actually doesn't take very long, but takes longer than a cut out in most cases. 

I have a few cement block walls I do this technique with. It works with tree trunks. pretty much any where that you can narrow the exit entry to two locations---and smoking in the lowest region that allows the smoke to travel upwards.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

gasdoc said:


> How long do you have to smoke them for before they evacuate?


In many cases they never will leave. Most often if they have lots of capped/uncapped brood and honey.

The nursebees, housekeepers, fanners etc, will stick their heads in the honey and ride the smoke out. The bees will ball up around the queen to protect her. Field bees will evacuate the hive and form a ball near the entrance, but, even prolonged smoking may not make the queen and nursebees evacuate the facility they are in.

If this method had a high rate of success, there would be no need for cut outs and trap outs. My experience has been that it won't. Worth a try, but, if you want them gone, get ready to do a cut out or trapout.

cchoganjr


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## BackYardPhenomena (Jul 11, 2012)

In my experience, which may be limited compared to Mr. Hogan, bees have no problem absconding. That's the nature behind why they will leave a hive anyway-- maybe what people call CCD. From what I've seen, bees that abscond leave because too many pests are in the hive usually following a swarm, where their numbers are not enough to keep out the invaders.

As beekeepers we use a smoker to get the reaction that I've explained about. They think their hive is on fire, their pheromone is masked, gorge themselves on honey and leave. Even if your just smoking your bees in your apiary, their immediate response is to stick their head in a nectar cell-- why because they are preparing to leave and set up shop in a new location. This evolutionary response has been built in them for millions of years. Once you get the march of bees and relocate them to your box, they queen follows. Even when doing a cut out. if too much smoke is used, the queen balls up somewhere near the top of the hive.

The process I explained is maybe a bit over simplified, but it's worked for me every time. Just marked a queen from a stump I did in this manner last weekend. 

It's worth a try and even worth further discussion.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

I totally agree. Bees abscond for a number of reasons. And under some circumstances, massive amounts of smoke, may, make them abscond. If it works for you, Go for it. Nothing wrong with that. I highly respect everyone's experience, whether one year or 50 years. And, every situation is different. I hope I did not come off as be-littleing you. I certainly did not mean to. If I did, I extend my sincere apology. 

And I too, hope this will be a discussion. That is what this forum is for. 

(side note)... No need to call me Mr. Hogan, Cleo or Whimpy will do nicely. We are all friends here on this forum. Just discussing issues we face each day.

Just one more observation. When we smoke our bees they do stick their heads into honey cells, but, normally very, very, few leave the hive. It is a way of riding out the smoke. Other bees will start fanning to dissipate the smoke. The instinct to protect the queen and the brood is most often greater than their desire to just flee. It normally will take massive amounts of smoke to get them to abandon the brood.

Thanks.

cchoganjr


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## Rzrbackbees (Mar 17, 2015)

I used this method today, sort of. I did a cut out but the queen and a lot of the bees had a hidey hole to escape to. Once I cleaned out the comb I smoked them very heavily. They poured out and swarmed on a nearby branch where I was able to cage the queen and get everyone in my hive. I think it worked so well for me because they didn't have much honey stores and no brood. They had moved in just a few days ago.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

Rzrbackbees said:


> Once I cleaned out the comb I smoked them very heavily.


More likely it worked so well, because you had cleaned out the comb. There was no reason for them to stay. Nothing to protect. Their home was destroyed. And yes, smoke will make them leave then.

cchoganjr


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## BackYardPhenomena (Jul 11, 2012)

There are a few individuals on this forum, that when they offer their advice, I usually sit back listen and take notes. Cleo, you are one of these individuals. 

When doing a cut out, I limit the smoke so as not to drive the queen too far away from the brood. Once the queen is caged, I then use the smoker as if it was a lion's whip taming the bees and driving them in which direction I please.

I have a client with bees in a concrete block wall that has a hole leading to the interior of the business. Bees are pouring into their warehouse. I will be implementing the smoke technique, and will report back tomorrow evening with the success or lack there of.


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