# Pyment - grapes & honey



## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

How about this,

Here's a Jack Keller recipie for 

SCUPPERNONG PYMENT (per gallon)

6-10 lbs of Scuppernong grapes 
1¾ lbs honey 
5-6 pts water 
1½ tsp acid blend 
1 tsp yeast nutrient 
½ tsp grape tannin 
1 packet White Labs WLP720 Sweet Mead or Vierka Mead or Kitzinger Mead yeast 


Think I could substitue Cynthianas at the 6 pound per gallon ratio?

Or what about just crushing the grapes in nylon bag, filling with water, add honey till S.G. is desireable (#?), add nutrient, pectic enzyme and camden tablets, after 24 hrs add yeast and hope for the best on acid?
Is it that simple?

[ September 07, 2006, 11:27 AM: Message edited by: MichaelW ]


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## Aspera (Aug 1, 2005)

I would add 2-3 lbs (1 qt) of honey mixed with 1 qt of boiled distilled water to your grapes. Sulfite, pH and add nutrients as usual. This will ferment fine in a 5 gallon bucket (making about 3.5 gal). Rack to your 3 gallon secondary, leaving behind about 2 quarts of yeast and such. This should give a nice wine as many Eastern summer grapes tend to be low in sugar, high in acid and nutrients.


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## Ben Brewcat (Oct 27, 2004)

Do you have access to a crusher and/or press?


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

No crusher or press, but I do have a good sized food processor that easily made applesauce out of 10 pounds of apples. I was thinking about using that, but I heard you can just put them in a straining bag and crush. Or crush, then strain placing the skins and stuff back in the mix, but in straining bag. 
Any recommendations on that?

I'm planning on using the leftovers for "second wine" with welches frozen grape juice concentrate and sugar.

Thanks Aspera, I should probably take your advise, but decided I don't have time to make it over to the brew store in time to buy a 3 gallon carboy, besides I have two 6 gallon carboys collecting dust.
So here's my new plan

1 bushel grapes
water to 6 gallons
nutrient
pectic enzyme
1.5 teaspoons grape tannin
honey to S.G. of X?
Acid blend to Y?
Cambden tablets
wait 24 hrs
Lavin D-47 yeast

What do you think?
I could also use some help determining X and Y

Thanks, 
Michael


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## nursebee (Sep 29, 2003)

Where are you getting the grapes from? I am envious after failing to obtain plants this past year. I plan on a whole row of them next spring.

Have you ever tasted a Norton wine? It is very good and very UNLIKE muscadine. I'd consider a 1 gallon batch of the wine and also some pyment just so you could taste both.

On crushing: If you process them too much you will release yucky flavors from seeds (if present). Potato masher can do well. I'd start my fermentation without the honey and using just the crushed grapes, maybe some water if needed. Starting with the grapes for a few days you will get some of the color from the skins.

On the Keller recipe, looks great for a typical muscadine wine with the attributes that most folks do not like: too sweet. Why add nutrient and acid, the grapes will add that fine on their own. My wife likes a drier wine so I'd go with a "stronger" yeast. And tannin??? Maybe okay considering that the scuppernong is a light variety of muscadine but again not needed.

Good luck hand crushing a bushel. Maybe try a rolling pin over some hardware cloth.

I'd treat the cynthianas as a typical wine grape, not as a muscadine!!!


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

Joe, you've given me alot to think about. Thanks.
This is brew project #3 ever, so I've lots to learn.

I hate sweet wine!

I work with a guy who has a very nice Vinyard. They sell Cynthiana, Concord, and Muscadine. They are harvesting now and I'm just going with the opportunity to get some because it presented itself. Ideally I'd get a press and more experience first. But next September is a long way to wait! They sell all their grapes fast to one buyer in Gattlinburg, he's just skimmin' a bushel off for me.

I ordered 10 or so vines from Starksbro for fall planting last year. The Concords (only) are doing great and where only like $5 each.

For my wine,
So I can;
1. get the ferment started with grapes, a little water, lavlin D-47. (Should I add anything else, pectic, etc.)

2.rack/filter off 1 gallon for wine. I do have some one gallon jugs.

3. to the rest still remaining in primary, 
add water to 6 gallons,
add honey to S.G. of (?) 
Check acid, for (?) or ignore
add nutrient?
pectic enzyme?

Thanks, I could really use the advise.

[ September 08, 2006, 12:19 PM: Message edited by: MichaelW ]


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## Aspera (Aug 1, 2005)

D47 has made some very fine meads for me. An excellent all around performer....


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

I got the grapes today and it ended up only being about a plastic grocery sack full, so pyment it is! I wasn't looking forward to hand squeezing what I would imagine would be a busshel anyway.

Oh well beggars can't be choosers and you can't beat a price of $0!

Is it a good idea to chop or food process some stems to add tannins?


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