# Jacksonville/Florida new laws/rules, I may just not get started.



## trance (Mar 29, 2013)

I deleted this, I'm angry and decided to cool off first. I'm upset with the proposed laws/rules coming to Florida Bee keepers...


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## PatBeek (Jan 13, 2012)

.
Um, I'd kinda like to know what you are talking about. I have bees here in central FL and would like to know what more BS they are trying to ram down our throats to keep people from being self-sufficient.

But notice how poison honey from China is perfectly safe and legal.......but restrict all forms of communities being self-sufficient here in the U.S.

It's always for our OWN good.

Where do they have the time and money to keep harassing everyone?

Aren't cities, counties, states and nations going bankrupt and junk like that?


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## Bees In Miami (Nov 30, 2012)

trance: I'd love to know what you are referring to, as well! Please enlighten us!


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## mac (May 1, 2005)

Ya whats up


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## trance (Mar 29, 2013)

http://www.freshfromflorida.com/pi/...UROPEAN-HONEYBEE-COLONIES-01-31-13-SAMPLE.pdf

Went to my first Bee meeting last night (Jacksonville). Dr. Ellis from UF was there and did a really good job speaking about pests, virus' and all. After hearing all that I was still ready to keep bees. However at the end of the meeting things got a little heated. I don't want to throw anyone under the bus.


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## trance (Mar 29, 2013)

So no one is grandfathered in. If you live on property where you can only have 3 hives but currently have 4, too bad. 

If you live on land with a house on each side but have acres and acres of wetlands right behind your house, too bad. (150 feet radius) 

If your neighbor has a chicken buys a dog and it is confined to the back yard either buy fence or whatever and even if you had your bees first, too bad.


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## shannonswyatt (May 7, 2012)

Unfortunately you live in a retirement state. Lots of folks come from other areas and they decide what you are doing is wrong and you need to be regulated.


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

Do you folks pay property taxes in Florida? I'd tell them to stick it where the sun don't shine.


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## Rusty Hills Farm (Mar 24, 2010)

John Q. Public is afraid of Africanized bees and is convinced they will swarm down and kill everything in sight. These rules are in response to those fears. We have always had to contend with public fears/unease about beekeeping, and as the population grows, so do the fears. The best thing the clubs can do is work to educate the public about requeening hot hives to combat AHB and how the more European drones we can get in the air, the milder the AHB feral population will become. Backyard hives play a BIG part in that. Convince the public that we are an ASSET in combating the problem and we will generate support for our hobby instead of restrictions.

JMO (as a former FL beekeeper)


Rusty


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## trance (Mar 29, 2013)

I went through this with Venomous snakes and the state of Florida... This is only the beginning in rules and fees. In one year the fee for keeping Venomous snakes went from $5.00 to $100.00, there is so much paper work now it's crazy! The state took years and years (they move slowly but this is only the beginning)


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Yup, don't bother buying any bees. Regulations apparently too onerous for you.


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## trance (Mar 29, 2013)

sqkcrk said:


> Yup, don't bother buying any bees. Regulations apparently too onerous for you.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Ok, granted no one likes any regulations at all - personally I like to drive about 135 miles an hour, and it really chaps my cheeks that isn't allowed. But they are allowing 3 hives on lots that are less than a quarter acre, and six On lots that are less than a half acre. That sounds like that no matter how small your lot is you can have at least three hives, and on many lots that are a smidgen over a half acre you could have ten. That doesn't sound all that unreasonable to me.


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## hilreal (Aug 16, 2005)

We are only allowed 2 per lot in Fort Wayne.....


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## jbeshearse (Oct 7, 2009)

hilreal said:


> We are only allowed 2 per lot in Fort Wayne.....


This new regulation/best practices is for NON agricultural land. Meaning mainly for urban and suburban beekeepers. This was put in place to allow the state to over-ride the local municipalities anti beekeeping ordinances and laws. I think it is well written and reasonable. If you have less than a 1/4 acre, I tyhink 3 colonies is reasonable. if you have less than a 1/4 acre and no neighbors then the count is unlimited.


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## trance (Mar 29, 2013)

Number of hives is not the only issue. However no consideration if your property borders acres of wetlands (for example) and you only have 2 neighbors on either side.

As I said, it got a bit heated. Not everyone will agree with all of it.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

shannonswyatt said:


> Unfortunately you live in a retirement state. Lots of folks come from other areas and they decide what you are doing is wrong and you need to be regulated.


So lets eliminate the back yard beek and let the feral African’s take over, good idea.


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## HTC (Mar 17, 2012)

Now I have to buy my queens only from certain people? I read the PDF. I had to look up what a EHB certified queen breeder was. Still not sure. So does this mean one can not breed there own queens? Other thing how can any breeder insure the lines of a queen if she is open breed?


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

trance said:


> Number of hives is not the only issue. However no consideration if your property borders acres of wetlands (for example) and you only have 2 neighbors on either side.
> 
> As I said, it got a bit heated. Not everyone will agree with all of it.


So it only looks to be an issue in non agricultural areas. I can see the irritation point about only being restricted to 3 colonies in your backyard, but how many colonies in an urban environment can you have and still have them produce adequate honey to survive? I know its a loaded question because of all the variables. I couldn't see someone placing 32 colonies in their back yard, in the middle of any residential area. Forget the neighbors, I would be concerned with needing to feed the bees constantly.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

HTC said:


> Now I have to buy my queens only from certain people? I read the PDF. I had to look up what a EHB certified queen breeder was. Still not sure. So does this mean one can not breed there own queens? Other thing how can any breeder insure the lines of a queen if she is open breed?


You should call and ask Dave Miksa. It's an excellent question and I am sure he could give you an excellent answer.


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## rhaldridge (Dec 17, 2012)

This appears to be one of those brain-dead regulations that will only be enforced if for some reason the bee inspector dislikes you. For example, how is it practical or even possible to enforce the provisions regarding queen lineage? If a colony supercedes, the beekeepers may not even be aware that he is no longer in compliance.

This also strikes a blow against those of us who want to practice treatment free beekeeping. I have 2 hives and planned to have 3, but reality dictates that I will lose some or all of them eventually. Now it appears I can't legally keep a couple of nucs in reserve for replacing these losses. Maybe they should have called it the Florida Package Producers Protection Act.

What a magnificent example of bureaucratic crappola.


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## crazylocha (Mar 26, 2013)

After having several of the Bee Board members speak at our club, we had several of these similar discussions.

As far as Queen Breeders in FL, its all about accountability with the "Producer". Maintaining records, inspections, etc. Most important to them was the not ignoring and taking care of a bad situation, i.e. AHB takeover. The point was generally reducing "bad apple" syndrome where someone trying to make a fast buck and is unscrupulous in methods.

Not like we have ever had anybody like that:shhhh:.

Property rights include not neglecting a tree in your yard and having it fall on your neighbors house/shed/dog etc. Basically put, Bee's in your yard have to behave on your neighbors property too. In such close proximity (as in quarter acre lots in a typical FL housing development) it can become difficult to manage sooo many Beeks. Hence the need for some sort of paper trail to know who gave OK's and who didn't. That was their line of thinking having to set standards that would NOT become a legal nightmare in the courts tying up Beeks and Ag department funds for years. This was a general "middle ground" that could serve several purposes and provide elements needed such as tracking hives (spraying and testing amongst other purposes) and providing you, the Beek, with documentary evidence that your neighbors did indeed give consent, releasing liability yada yada legal crap.

If I could keep all the effects of a nuclear reactor to just my 3 acre farm, I would make a ton of money supplying power to the wrinkly golf course types in the Villages. Alas, radiation drift, very loud bangs and funky mushroom clouds are just pesky things, right? Why should that be regulated, I have a right to make a buck or two, right?

Yes that was meant to be over the top. It is about "common good". Just varying degrees. Do you feel safer knowing that 80% of the cars on FL roads do NOT have car insurance? Or that 90% do? Finding balance is not always easy. The ability to keep bee's is good. Keeping a reasonable amount for size of lot etc. in a densely populated area *IS REASONABLE*. We all may disagree about the definition of reasonable. Most municipalities were trying to outlaw Beekeeping totally. Be glad they are at least trying to find some sanity in this mess. Did you travel to Gainesville to sit in on the open comment session? 

We are all passionate about our girls, it's the keeping a level head on while thinking forward and adapting to problem situations that gets tricky. Participate and help.


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## trance (Mar 29, 2013)

BMAC said:


> So it only looks to be an issue in non agricultural areas. I can see the irritation point about only being restricted to 3 colonies in your backyard, but how many colonies in an urban environment can you have and still have them produce adequate honey to survive? I know its a loaded question because of all the variables. I couldn't see someone placing 32 colonies in their back yard, in the middle of any residential area. Forget the neighbors, I would be concerned with needing to feed the bees constantly.


I for one do not want another job so having X amount of hives that turns a hobby into a job is not what I am after. Maybe most of my complaint is MORE GOVERNMENT telling me what I can and can't do. I understand there are a few counties that did not allow bees at all so it helps them as the state will now allow them to have bees. I'm not sure how many hives it takes to turn a hobby into a job as it might be different for each person. 

I understand the feeding part and for those who live around the concrete jungle Vs. those who live further out and are surrounded by state forests, wetlands and other management areas the city and state have set aside it would be nice to have considerations added in the wording and not just paint brush everyone. IMO.


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## crazylocha (Mar 26, 2013)

trance said:


> I for one do not want another job so having X amount of hives that turns a hobby into a job is not what I am after. Maybe most of my complaint is MORE GOVERNMENT telling me what I can and can't do. I understand there are a few counties that did not allow bees at all


Actually, Duval County did and so did Jax city. They both had ordinances to keep you from your hobby, sir, as did the city of Ocala. Fortunately I live outside city limits in an agricultural county. The Master Gardeners here are very friendly with county commission and held off long enough for the state to change the AG Law to supersede ALL local governments regulations.


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## trance (Mar 29, 2013)

crazylocha said:


> After having several of the Bee Board members speak at our club, we had several of these similar discussions.
> 
> As far as Queen Breeders in FL, its all about accountability with the "Producer". Maintaining records, inspections, etc. Most important to them was the not ignoring and taking care of a bad situation, i.e. AHB takeover. The point was generally reducing "bad apple" syndrome where someone trying to make a fast buck and is unscrupulous in methods.
> 
> ...


I'm not against everything infact most things are good. Just a few concerns like neighbors animals be confined. SO if I had bees first but my neighbor starts breeding dogs in her backyard, I loose? Now I have to put up with barking dogs all night? I know, no one should have pets and that will settle it all! I jest of course! Just some concerns. I've calmed down a bit, I wasn't going to post till I calmed down so maybe I was still wired a little this morning. 

I guess the above and 3 hives is my main issue. I could understand if I had neighbors all around but I have acres and acres and acres of set aside wetlands behind my house. I guess I had 5 to 6 hives in time in my head and that's what got me going... Maybe 3 will be fine.


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## trance (Mar 29, 2013)

crazylocha said:


> Actually, Duval County did and so did Jax city. They both had ordinances to keep you from your hobby, sir, as did the city of Ocala. Fortunately I live outside city limits in an agricultural county. The Master Gardeners here are very friendly with county commission and held off long enough for the state to change the AG Law to supersede ALL local governments regulations.


Duval, when did this change? I was told something different and with talking to people around here they talk like they have been keeping for years with no problems...?


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## crazylocha (Mar 26, 2013)

Don't feel bad, Ocala snuck one through on us too. ALL the Master Gardeners did't know either, and they had bee's on govt. leased property INSIDE city limits. Apparently a number of places got them in, just most didn't enforce yet unless someone called local zoning.


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## rhaldridge (Dec 17, 2012)

crazylocha said:


> . The ability to keep bee's is good. Keeping a reasonable amount for size of lot etc. in a densely populated area *IS REASONABLE*. We all may disagree about the definition of reasonable. Most municipalities were trying to outlaw Beekeeping totally. Be glad they are at least trying to find some sanity in this mess. Did you travel to Gainesville to sit in on the open comment session?


Do you regard it as reasonable to regulate out of existence those hobby beekeepers who want to breed their own queens, or who want to breed replacement colonies from their own stock?

I don't believe it is *UNREASONABLE* to want the freedom to practice these traditional elements of beekeeping. I just got out the plat of my lot, and it is a fraction more than a quarter acre, so I'm okay from the point of view of colony numbers; all I want is two or three colonies and a couple nucs in reserve to practice beekeeping as I think appropriate. But the restrictions on queens make no sense at all, and are unenforceable. The nuc I got from a local beekeeper, and the package I got from Wolf Creek appear to both be illegal; the local guy has open bred queens and the package is from Georgia, a known AHB area.

Apparently it doesn't matter that there are no known Africanized bees here in this part of NW Florida, according to all the local beekeepers I've talked to.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

trance said:


> Maybe most of my complaint is MORE GOVERNMENT telling me what I can and can't do.


I am right there with you. It is crap. I was just trying to put some sense to something that is fairly senseless.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

rhaldridge said:


> the package is from Georgia, a known AHB area.
> 
> Apparently it doesn't matter that there are no known Africanized bees here in this part of NW Florida, according to all the local beekeepers I've talked to.


http://www.ars.usda.gov/research/docs.htm?docid=11059&page=6

I understand the map is 2 years old but I dont see any counties in Ga on it.

In fact I speak with the Ga inspector every year about AHB and there are only 2 recorded findings of them in southern Ga. Both of which were destroyed.

So it begs the question that is Ga is a known AHB area how can NW Florida not be considered an AHB area as well?


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## alblancher (Mar 3, 2011)

The ordinance should have a caveat that would allow the inspector to approve special situations like vast tracts of undeveloped land adjacent to your property. What kind of property is the wetlands you are talking about. Seems like getting permission to place any extra hives in the wetlands could be the answer to your problems. 

As far as maintaining European Honey Bees vs mixed African and European bees I don't have any suggestions. I can see a day not so far off that it will be either illegal to open breed your own queens or you will have to have the genetics of your hive tested for AHB

Maybe it's time for you to find a rural location or make friends with some of the other land owners in your area.


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## trance (Mar 29, 2013)

http://www.freshfromflorida.com/pi/...r-5B-54-Apiary-Rulemaking-Final-2-0-DRAFT.pdf

This is draft...


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## Nature Coast beek (Jun 10, 2012)

Queen producers such as Miksa (as most others) are perfectly fine to purchase from BY ANYONE as well as other beeks that are queen rearing AS LONG AS they are using breeder queens from non AHB areas (documented through receipts and registration numbers) or other producers with known EHB stock and follow the protocols for drone saturation. All these things are very public information through the state apiary website. From what I understand, Miksa brings in breeder queens from places such as Ferguson (Buckfast), Latshaw and Glenn (when they were operating) as well as developing his own line. *These BMP are nothing new*, just new to new people wanting to keep bees. They used to be optional, but now appear to be going mandatory. Well, got news for ya, it used to be* NOT* allowed to keep ANY bees (before 7/2012) in most places that were non-ag, but now it* IS* allowed. Lesser local laws are overridden,* INCLUDING DEED RESTRICTIONS*. It's called trade-offs and compromise. The OP to this thread _doesn't even have ANY bees_ and is obviously not aware the state laws have *ACTUALLY BECOME MORE FAVORABLE* not restrictive. Take it for what it's worth. Get two hives and keep them alive then if you like keeping bees and want to get bigger, find a person that has property for an out-yard or go buy some bigger property yourself.

Just my .02


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## Brenton (Jun 24, 2010)

Everyone needs to keep in mind that this has not been signed into law, it is just a draft and the state bee association is asking for input on the draft and wants to hear from registered beekeepers throughout the state with their concerns and questions. So speak up, write emails to the officers of the state bee club.


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## rhaldridge (Dec 17, 2012)

BMAC said:


> http://www.ars.usda.gov/research/docs.htm?docid=11059&page=6
> 
> I understand the map is 2 years old but I dont see any counties in Ga on it.
> 
> ...


Both of those instances were within the last 3 years. It seems unlikely that those are the only colonies-- they're just the ones that have been found. One of them was found because an elderly man was stung to death by them. This was in the southern part of the state, where many large package producers are located. Unless all the queens they sell are artificially inseminated (not the case, of course) then there is a risk that AHB genetics are included in packages from Georgia.

I'm sure NW Florida is considered to be an AHB area, since a couple swarms were found near Panama City, which has a port. The state maintains trap lines along I-10, which runs 30 miles north of my house. But none of the local beekeepers here have seen any AHB. It seems to me that this sort of regulation is pandering to hysteria, and is in real terms counterproductive. If we assume that AHB genetics will eventually come to be a part of the local feral population-- a reasonable assumption-- then the best defense is to have plenty of gentle bee colonies sending drones out to mate with these feral queens. The regulation seems to prohibit open queen mating.

Also, these practices are mandatory only in the case of non-agricultural beekeeping. Beekeepers in agricultural areas can do whatever they like, apparently. Since bees can fly, I'm not sure of the utility of penalizing and restricting hobby beekeepers. I guess they think we're too stupid to tell if we have aggressive bees or not.


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## rhaldridge (Dec 17, 2012)

Nature Coast beek said:


> but now it* IS* allowed. Lesser local laws are overridden,* INCLUDING DEED RESTRICTIONS*.


This is incorrect:



> 10. *Deed restrictions* and covenants that prohibit or restrict the allowance for managed honeybee colonies within their established jurisdictions *take precedence* and as a result supersede the authority and requirements set forth in Chapter 586 Florida Statutes and Rule Chapter 5B-54, Florida Administrative Code.


Emphasis mine.


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## Nature Coast beek (Jun 10, 2012)

So deed restrictions that prohibit "managed honeybee" colonies are perfectly fine. Deed restrictions applying to agricultural livestock do not apply, correct? In other words there would have to be a *specific* deed restriction put in place *specifically* for honeybees....correct? Sucks for you if that is the case. Looks like you've got a fight to win. My local deed restrictions apply only to agricultural livestock. In other words you can't keep a goat or backyard chickens. Looks like "managed honeybee colonies" needs to be in the language. 

FWIW, America's Beekeeper (Beesource member) should probably chime in on this thread since he's the head Apiary inspector for Florida from what I understand.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

trance said:


> http://www.freshfromflorida.com/pi/...r-5B-54-Apiary-Rulemaking-Final-2-0-DRAFT.pdf
> 
> This is draft...


I read the draft. Whats wrong with it?


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## Wisnewbee (Apr 8, 2011)

I read the .pdf and was surprised they are allowing queen cells. If their concern is the spread of AHB, then why allow a queen cell. AHB map is out of date, and they know it. If a virgin queen mates with a drone from a AHB colony, you get another AHB colony. It doesn't matter if the source of the virgin is a backyard guy or a "Certified EHB Breeder". Who's doing the certification? It's a documented fact that AHB drones fly earlier, and later then EHB drones. I don't have problems with parts of this draft, but as a whole, it needs to be flushed. 

Wisnewbee
Honey Luv Farm


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## trance (Mar 29, 2013)

BMAC said:


> I read the draft. Whats wrong with it?


BMAC, was posting for others to read and comment on. I wasn't stating anything at the moment about it.


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## rhaldridge (Dec 17, 2012)

Nature Coast beek said:


> So deed restrictions that prohibit "managed honeybee" colonies are perfectly fine. Deed restrictions applying to agricultural livestock do not apply, correct? In other words there would have to be a *specific* deed restriction put in place *specifically* for honeybees....correct? Sucks for you if that is the case. Looks like you've got a fight to win. My local deed restrictions apply only to agricultural livestock. In other words you can't keep a goat or backyard chickens. Looks like "managed honeybee colonies" needs to be in the language.


A problem would arise if a local authority, such as an HOA, decided to define bees as agricultural livestock. Then what would you do?


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## Nature Coast beek (Jun 10, 2012)

Then you're screwed. But that link that you're citing isn't the current state law either. It's being proposed but not currently the rules to be followed.


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## trance (Mar 29, 2013)

Not sure if the new 3 hive rules is because of houses all around each other (1 on each side and one behind) or because the state figures there isn't much places for the bees to go for food or just the amount of hives a backyard?


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## hilreal (Aug 16, 2005)

BMAC said:


> I couldn't see someone placing 32 colonies in their back yard, in the middle of any residential area. Forget the neighbors, I would be concerned with needing to feed the bees constantly.


My bees in the city need less care than mine in the country. More and varied diet over a longer period.


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## jbeshearse (Oct 7, 2009)

trance said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIlDPgmJEsY
> 
> Not sure if the new 3 hive rules is because of houses all around each other (1 on each side and one behind) or because the state figures there isn't much places for the bees to go or just the amount of hives in ones backyard but here is my backyard and if new rules go through, I can only have 3 hives???


If you read the entire text you will see there is an option to apply for a special permit. You may be able to go that route to be able to consider the wetlands etc adjacent to your property. 

As with all rules there will be exceptions i am sure. 

Just have your land declared agricultural use. 

Also there is that " intragal to the beekeeping operation" loophole which may allow the state to help you out. The inspectors in Florida are very helpful and beneficial to the Florida Beekeepers. At least that has always been my experience and anyone else I have talked with's experience. And I have talked with a lot of folks.


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

I'm seldom a fan of increasing government oversight. The rules are already in place. So you have a few choices, ignore and possibly suffer enforcement, lobby to change the laws or learn what they are how they apply to you and comply. 
I can see from the replies that some don't understand the EHB requirement of BMP. I'll explain as I understand it. In order for me to raise queens to sell or requeen my own stock I needed to call my apiary inspected and have them come out. She asked which stock I was grafting from and took bees from each line and sent them to be tested for AHB. We had a conversation about BMP and my Drone source. I paid a fee of $25.00 ( I think ) and received an Okay from the state a short while later. 
You do not have to bring in Magic bees from a far away place! Your inspector my caution against some specific out of state breeders.

I have one yard that every other time a hive supersedes and a queen flys out and open mates I get a hive of snotty bees. I could have this yard tested tomorrow and I'm confident every hive would test AHB negative. I just keep an eye on those hives and re queen with mated queens from my home yard. It's not a good local drone pool and I know it. 

I'm sure that professional breeders struggle with unwanted genetics and other problems that would put them out off business if they didn't work through them. The good ones have their genetics in nearly every state in the country. It's not because they stop at the bare requirements of BMP.


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## rhaldridge (Dec 17, 2012)

Mbeck said:


> I can see from the replies that some don't understand the EHB requirement of BMP. I'll explain as I understand it. In order for me to raise queens to sell or *requeen my own stock* I needed to call my apiary inspected and have them come out.


I've bolded the part that strikes me as both onerous and impractical. Every time a hive supercedes an old queen, you lose control of the genetics of that hive. You may not even realize that it's happened, but you will not be in compliance. To me this is overreaching. What will probably happen is that by attempting to control what hobby beekeepers do, the state will only succeed in driving these beekeepers underground and discouraging new beekeepers from keeping bees.


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## throrope (Dec 18, 2008)

HTC said:


> Now I have to buy my queens only from certain people? I read the PDF. I had to look up what a EHB certified queen breeder was. Still not sure. So does this mean one can not breed there own queens? Other thing how can any breeder insure the lines of a queen if she is open breed?


I can't see how anyone could monitor splits. If your neighbor doesn't object, I suspect they won't have an issue with your "extra" hives sitting on the other side of the line. Where there's will, there's way.


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

rhaldridge said:


> Every time a hive supercedes an old queen, you lose control of the genetics of that hive. You may not even realize that it's happened, but you will not be in compliance..


I understand your perspective of an overreaching government. I see the potential for unreasonable growth and regulation in the future but come on they aren't asking us to quarter soldiers!

As kind and gentle as I can say it ....Your statement in the quote above is a distortion of the truth and a little bit over the top.


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## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

Sorry guys. i cannot comment on a rule that has been in discussion and use (in various changes) for years, and is still getting revised for some time to come.
Anyone in Florida can raise queens under the BMP by paying the $25 and getting a Queen Certificate. If you sell bees or queens in Florida, you are supposed to have a Queen Certificate anyway.
You can tell if your queen is or has been superceded as supercedure queens are not born clipped or marked.
There is indeed an exception provision that many may take advantage of with the OP's situation.
Apiary Inspection will never become "Bee Cops" even if we had the manpower.
I have several beekeepers I personally inspected that spread their hives over several neighbors. This has the side benefit of getting more people interested and knowlegable about bees.
We also have beekeepers in deed restricted communities that have fairly effectively made their case and are still keeping bees. The secret seems to be positive friendly dialog, instead of whining.


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## trance (Mar 29, 2013)

Thanks for the reply americanbeekeeper.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

BMAC said:


> Forget the neighbors, I would be concerned with needing to feed the bees constantly.


Actually, retirement communities/cities are a great place to have bees (as long as it doesn't violate regulations), because, there is an abundance of flowers that bloom most of the year. Homeowners water their flowers so no worry about droughts. Additionally, the range that bees can frequent make it possible to have large numbers on small areas of land.

cchoganjr


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## rhaldridge (Dec 17, 2012)

Mbeck said:


> I understand your perspective of an overreaching government. I see the potential for unreasonable growth and regulation in the future but come on they aren't asking us to quarter soldiers!
> 
> As kind and gentle as I can say it ....Your statement in the quote above is a distortion of the truth and a little bit over the top.


I appreciate your effort to be kind, but how do you interpret the following from the draft:



> 5. Queen honey bee colony divisions or splits with production queens or queen cells from an EHB certified queen breeder, or from queens/queen cells acquired from outside the range of Africanized honey bees.


If the point of this regulation is to prevent Africanized genetic material from getting a foothold in your apiary, how does a supercedure queen fit in? If she frolics with Africanized drones on her mating flight, then you have the very situation the regulation is supposed to prevent. And you won't know it until the bees are tested. Do you think all bees should be tested?

I have no objection to regulating those who sell queens (even though most queens are open mated.) I don't see the utility of requiring this level of regulation for a hobbyist who wants to have a spare nuc in case he needs to replace a colony. As I read the regulation, it would not be legal to let that nuc make their own queen.

Then there's this:



> 6. Requeen collected swarms, new colonies and maintain colonies with queens from EHB queen producers immediately if the queen source is unknown.


I suppose there's loophole there for supercedure queens. You could say "I know the source of that queen. She came from right here in this hive." But how is that any different functionally from letting a nuc raise its own queen?

Remember, this is a draft. That means that the system you described will change if these regulations are adopted.

I'd love to be reassured that my concerns are groundless. But all I have to go on is the language in the draft, which is not reassuring. Since the system of treatment free beekeeping that I find most plausible involves brood breaks and replacement nucs, I fear that these new regulations will prevent me from pursuing this endeavor as I see fit. Maybe that would be okay if I thought the regulations would accomplish their intended purpose, but I can't see how they will prevent Africanized genes, given the fact that you have limited control over the genetics of supercedure queens.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

trance said:


> Number of hives is not the only issue. However no consideration if your property borders acres of wetlands (for example) and you only have 2 neighbors on either side.
> 
> As I said, it got a bit heated. Not everyone will agree with all of it.


Who owns the land which you call acres of wetlands? Find out who they are and get permission to put your hives on their land.


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## trance (Mar 29, 2013)

Thank you for your interest and voicing your concerns over Chapter 586, Florida Administrative Code, Rule 5B-54, specifically the Best Management Requirements (BMR), and the recommended revisions which are under consideration for adoption.



Under the currently revised draft of the Beekeeper Compliance Agreement-Best Management Requirements for Maintaining European Honey Bee Colonies, there is a diversity of lot sizes and honey bee colony densities: 

A. One quarter acre or less tract size - 3 colonies.

B. More than one-quarter acre, but less than one-half acre tract size - 6 colonies.

C. More than one-half acre, but less than one acre tract size - 10 colonies.

D. One acre or larger tract size - 15 colonies or more.

E. On tracts of one or more acres, where all hives are situated at least 150 feet in any direction from all property lines of the tract on which the apiary is situated, there shall be no limit to the number of colonies.

F. Regardless of tract size, so long as all property other than the tract upon which the hives are situated, that is within a radius of at least 150 feet from any hive, remains undeveloped property, there shall be no limit to the number of colonies.



If you are not able to meet the standard requirements, then you have the ability to request an exception “special permit” that could be used for already established beekeepers (grandfathered in). Because of the possibility of extenuating circumstances (public safety), FDACS cannot allow blanket coverage for all beekeeping operations. If requested a location(s) can be reviewed case by case, and possibly may obtain special permitting as stated in the BMRs: 



The honeybee colony requirements/densities may not be exceeded except under a special permit 

letter issued by the Director of the Division of Plant Industry. 



We trust that we have addressed your concerns. If we may be of further assistance to you, please do not hesitate to contact us.


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## trance (Mar 29, 2013)

The Law is in effect as of July 2012, we have to make changes in our Regulation 5B-54 which require approximately 90 days from the day they publish the changes before they can adopted the new rules. 



Here’s the guideline we follow:



Directions and General Guidance

The following sets forth the Department’s internal administrative rulemaking policy as approved by the Commissioner’s Office. The purpose of this form is to standardize the format in which the divisions communicate with the Office of the General Counsel (OGC) and the Commissioner’s Office and is to be used by all divisions throughout the rulemaking process. 



Approval Required: The Commissioner is required by statute to approve the Notice of Proposed Rule and Rule Adoption packages. The Commissioner has delegated approval for all other steps in the rulemaking process to the Assistant Commissioner. See §120.54(1)(k), F.S.

Statutory Authority and Department of State Rules: Rulemaking is governed by Chapter 120, F.S. and Chapter 1B-30, F.A.C. 

E-Rulemaking System: All notices must be submitted electronically using the Department of State’s E-rulemaking system. The OGC is the administrator of this system for the Department. Each division director has designated at least one employee to be responsible for submitting notices on behalf of their division. Each division should notify the OGC to update employees which should have access to the system as frequently as necessary.

Rule Development begins when:

· A new legislative act requires implementation by Departmental rule. The rule must be adopted within 180 days of the effective date of the act or as otherwise provided in the act. See §120.54(1)(b), F.S. Implementation of a statute cannot be delayed pending adoption of rules unless the statute so provides. See §120.54(1)(c), F.S. 

· The Division administering existing statutory authority determines a program requires a new policy of general application or begins to develop a general policy which has not been adopted as a rule. 

Forms

The statutory definition of a rule includes “any form which imposes any requirement or solicits any information not specifically required by statute or by an existing rule.” See §120.52(16), F.S. Department forms which meet this definition must be incorporated by reference into a rule and when any substantive changes are made to the form the rule reference must be updated through rulemaking. 

Notice of Rule Development (NRD): 

· The NRD package must include for approval: a copy of the Department’s Rule Transmittal Memo and the draft NRD. The proposed rule text is not required for a NRD, but if a draft has been prepared the proposed rule text should be included in the rule package along with any incorporated materials such as forms. A NRD is not required to repeal an entire rule, but is required to repeal only a portion of a rule.

· Approval by the Assistant Commissioner authorizes the Division to submit the NRD for publication and to schedule a workshop, if necessary. Workshops may be held before NRD is published. However, a Notice of a Rule Workshop will not replace the NRD. 

Combined Request for Notice of Proposed Rule Development (NRD) and for Notice of Proposed Rule (NPR): 

If the proposed rule amendments are prepared and the Division does not foresee a request for a rule workshop by an affected party, the Division may request approval to publish the NRD and NPR in the first request for approval.

Rule Development Workshops and Rule Hearings: A rule development workshop or rule hearing should be scheduled only if the Division believes that a workshop is appropriate under the circumstances OR if one is requested by an affected person. When preparing a NRD or NPR, the OGC recommends that the Division specify in the notice that “if requested a [workshop or hearing] will be held” on date and time identified in the notice. The agenda for the rule workshop or hearing must be posted on the Department’s website at least seven days before the event. See §120.525, F.S. 

Notice of Proposed Rule (NPR): 

· A NPR should be published within one calendar year from the date of publication of the NRD. The NPR package must include for approval: 1) the Department’s Rule Transmittal Memo; 2) the draft NPR (including proposed rule text); 3) incorporated materials (if any); 4) a draft letter to SBRAC and OTTED regarding the impact on small business, See §120.54(3)(b), F.S.; 5) a draft letter to JAPC transmitting the “Initial Proposed Rule Review File.” 

· The JAPC “Initial Proposed Rule Review File” must include: 1) the Notice of Proposed Rule with proposed rule text, 2) a Summary Sheet with Statement of Justification, Rule Summary, Federal Standards Statement (if applicable), a Statement of Estimated Regulatory Costs (if applicable), and 3) Copies of any Incorporated Documents. See §120.54(3)(a)4., F.S.

· Each rule in the proposed NPR must be followed by the appropriate legal citations (consisting of the “Rulemaking Authority” and “Law Implemented”) and “History Notes.” See §120.54(3), F.S. and 1B-30.004, F.A.C.

· After a NPR is approved by the Commissioner, the Division is authorized to submit the NPR for publication, to transmit the “Initial Review File” to JAPC, to transmit the letters to SBRAC and OTTED, and to schedule and hold a rule hearing, if necessary. The Division is also responsible for electronically submitting any incorporated documents to the Department of State. See 1B-30.005, F.A.C. 

· Publication of the NPR begins the ninety day statutory timeframe for rule adoption. See §120.54(3)(e)2., F.S. 

· The Division must forward a copy of any hearing requests and comments from JAPC to the OGC. 

Technical Changes:

· Technical changes are defined as non-substantive changes, errors in punctuation, misspellings, corrections of tense, changes of address or telephone number, or similar changes that do not affect the construction or meaning of the rule. See 1B-30.002(10), F.A.C. 

· Technical changes not affecting the substance of the rule or incorporated materials may be accomplished by writing a letter to the Department of State’s Administrative Code and Weekly Section. The Division must confer with the OGC before submitting a letter requesting technical changes.

Notice of Change:

· Any change other than a technical change must be supported by at least one of the following: 1) the record of any rule hearing; 2) written material submitted to the Department as part of any rule hearing; or 3) comments from JAPC regarding the proposed rule. 

· If a change to the proposed rule is required, the Division must prepare a Notice of Change package which must include: 1) a copy of the Department’s Rule Transmittal Memo with an explanation of the need for substantive revisions; 2) the Notice of Change with the changes to the proposed rule published in the NPR; 3) any incorporated materials with the changes indicated; and 4) a draft of the proposed letter to JAPC containing an explanation of the reasons for the Notice of Change.

Notice of Withdrawal: If the Division decides to withdraw the proposed rule package after NPR and before adoption, the Division must prepare a Notice of Withdrawal which must include the following: a copy of the Rule Transmittal Memo with an explanation of the need to withdraw the rulemaking and the Notice of Withdrawal. 

Rule Adoption: 

· The Rule Adoption package must include the following: 1) a copy of the Rule Transmittal Memo; 2) a draft letter to JAPC (“7-day letter”) advising that no changes have been made to the proposed rule and that the agency intends to file the rule for adoption; 3) a cover letter to the Department of State with the contact information for the Division’s rule coordinator; 4) a Rule Certification for the Commissioner’s signature; 5) the final coded proposed rule text including legal citations and history notes; 6) a compact disk with the coded rule text (do not send to OGC); 7) A Summary Sheet with Rule Summary, Statement of Justification, and Hearings Summary of any hearings held. See 1B-30.002(1), F.A.C. 

· If any materials are incorporated by reference, the Division must also include a Certification of Materials Incorporated by Reference for the Commissioner’s signature. All non-copyrighted materials must be filed electronically with the Department of State no later than three business days prior to the rule adoption. See 1B-30.005, F.A.C. The Division must include a copy of the email confirmation of filing of incorporated materials with the Certification of Materials Incorporated by Reference. See 1B-30.002(1)(a)3., F.A.C. 

· Rule File: The Division is responsible for maintaining a permanent file for each rule containing the entire rulemaking record. See §120.54(8), F.S. At the conclusion of rulemaking, the OGC will return its documentation pertaining to the rulemaking to the Division for inclusion in the rulemaking file.


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