# Which is better Sugar or Fondant?



## MountainCamp (Apr 12, 2002)

I have never feed fondant to a colony, so my answer is one sided. That said,

Most know how I set my hives for winter. Empty box, with granular sugar on paper, then the inner and out cover on top. i have been doing this for quite sometime and it works very well for me. I have heard from a number of others who have tried and they have liked it and it work well for them.

Why granular sugar vs. fondant?
#1) Cost
#2) Easy to use, no prep required.
#3) Easy to store
#4) Absorbs moisture within a winter hive, keeps condensate from falling back on to the cluster
#5) The cluster can use it as a group

http://www.mountaincampfarm.com/wst_page5.php


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## Jeffzhear (Dec 2, 2006)

MountainCamp said:


> "...I have heard from a number of others who have tried and they have liked it and it work well for them..."


My first year of using the Mountaincamp method of sugaring, but so far, so good. Lost one late season combine of two late August swarms, otherwise the hives are doing well. Monday it's supposed to be 50 here and so, I'll watch them fly and see how they're doing...


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## Brent Bean (Jun 30, 2005)

I’m with MountainCamp all the way. Be careful feeding marshmallows or powder sugar to your bees. There is stuff in these products that is not easily digested by your bees and cause you and outbreak of dysentery, especially in northern climates when the bees go long periods of time without being able to take cleansing flights. Stick to pure cane or beet sugar.


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## BigDaddyDS (Aug 28, 2007)

Marshmallow?

Geez! Definitely not! A major component of man-made marshmallows is corn starch, which as most everyone knows is not good for bees. It will "bind them up" and cause dysentary in your hive. In short, they can't digest it, and that's not something you want in emergency feed, is it?

This year, I'm also following MountainCamp's suggestion. And, likewise, so far so good. The moisture naturally occurring in the hive has caused the sugar to harden into a block and has appeared to be successful in keeping condensation from dripping on to the cluster. I remain hopeful that the weather breaks, and the bees have enough honey stored, before they chimney all the way up to the sugar, but it's nice to know it's there just in case. 

BDDS


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## Hill's Hivery (Jan 7, 2005)

Ok, you all have talked me into Mountaincamp's idea. Do you have to be really careful on when you remove the empty super? I don't want to be digging out burr comb this spring! 

Thank you all for your input! I never thought about the cornstarch in the marshmallows. I guess I didn't realize it was so bad for the girls!


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## MountainCamp (Apr 12, 2002)

They will not start building burr comb until there is a strong spring flow and they need the "extra" space. By then you will have removed the empty super, any remaining sugar, and placed your supers.

Worst case is if you left everything way too long, you scrape the bar tops. But, you will see them starting to build up from the bars and you can react.


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## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

I've just begun to use MountainCamp's approach and I will mention one thing
I have 2 hives that failed to build up much last summer, probably due to a severe drought
the top box on both only got partially drawn and contained no stores
when I put sugar on top of the top box it acted as kind of a barrier between the bees and the sugar, they were reluctant to leave their stores to get to the sugar
of course the solution was simply to remove that empty box to get the sugar down next to the cluster but I thought I'd mention it just the same

Dave


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## WVbeekeeper (Jun 4, 2007)

http://wvbeekeeper.blogspot.com/2008/01/are-your-bees-alive-do-you-need-to-feed.html


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## mudlake (Nov 26, 2007)

WVbeeker, nice post Thank You very much Tony


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## LT (Aug 17, 2006)

*Icing*

What is the recipe for the icing? Thanks WVA Bee Keeper


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## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

wvbeek

your blog reminded me of what I did last year
I had some honey supercell I wanted to introduce the following spring so I layed it on its side and poured dry sugar in the cells
then wetted down with a spray bottle
put a box of that on top of a hive
you could do the same with drawn wax
kind of an instant frame of honey to give em
in my case it also served to introduce the plastic into the hive
I still have some HSC around, may have to try that again, it worked last year

Dave


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## MountainCamp (Apr 12, 2002)

An easy way to feed in a frame is to lay the frame flat, pour granular sugar on it, level the sugar with the cells, spray / mist with water. Let the sugar soak up the liquid, NOT TOO MUCH misting. 
Let sit for a few minutes, turn frame over and do the same to the other side.
DON'T bang or handle the frames rough while drying and setting.


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## WVbeekeeper (Jun 4, 2007)

LT, sent you a PM.

Drobbins, I've had swarms leave hives before after catching them and putting them in there. Now when I hive a swarm I'll usually spray all the frames and foundation with sugar syrup. You could probably spray the HSC with sugar syrup to help with acceptance as well.


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## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

WV

I'm sure that would accomplish the same thing
I just got it to serve the dual purpose of feeding and introduction at the same time
I sitting here loading up some more like that right now
wish I had thought to do it before a lost a hive in that cold snap last week

Dave


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## Hill's Hivery (Jan 7, 2005)

Great blog wvbeekeeper, Thanks!

MM Fondant:
16 oz bag of mini mallows, 2 lb bag of powdered sugar, little water, lot of crisco!
Melt mallows in a bowl with a couple tablespoons of water. Crisco the countertop like crazy. Dump the mallows onto the countertop and crisco up your hands. Pour the powdered sugar onto the mallow and nead like dough. If it starts to seperate/break add a little water. Keep everything lubed so it doesn't stick. After getting it to a doughy consistency your done. I used a little to much crisco at the end and, but it turned out ok.

I guess since I am going to feed sugar instead, now I need to bake a cake to use all that fondant I made!
Darn The Bad Luck!!!!


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

I use fondant.

I find dry sugar being used by bees only as a last resort. I find that bees on days when it does warm up, will do little with the dry sugar, and for those bees not in direct contact with it, will ignore it, many times too late.

The fondant is processed and moved almost continually as long as the bees can get to it. On warm days, they will move some of it down around the cluster. And so sometimes direct contact is not needed for benefit throughout the winter. 

Here is a picture of a nuc I started feeding, and shows the paper plates I use. 

On poor ventilated hives, using paper plates, or tops of shoe boxes, helps with water issues. 

http://s186.photobucket.com/albums/x236/BjornBee/?action=view&current=beepictures029.jpg

I opened alot of tops to nucs and hives being fed dry sugar, and never seen bees feeding like the above picture.


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## Brent Bean (Jun 30, 2005)

BjornBee:	
Great picture, how do you make your Fondant. The method I have used is pour sugar in a large bowl pour in luke warm water and nead until I can make a patty out of it, then I press it between wax pater to keep it together until I can introduce it to the hive.


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## Jon L (Dec 29, 2007)

Ive not tried fondant yet.

This sugar is right over the cluster on a single deep.

The bees are eating it well and i think its helping keep the condensation down.

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj21/hyptno99/DSC00011.jpg


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## MountainCamp (Apr 12, 2002)

My experience with feeding granular sugar over the last 10 years or so has been that they will and do work it well.
As with all of beekeeping time and location play heavily into how things work.
Granular sugar is “viewed” and used as granular honey would be. They liquefy it, move it, store it, or use it.
The granular sugar absorbs moisture from the winter hive. Wetting the paper and sprinkling a little water on the sugar to wet the edges, will jump start a slow hive.
This year I went into winter with 30 colonies. Since the end of October they have used / consumed / moved / stored almost 1,000 lbs of granular sugar.
So far this winter, all hives are still going and they made a real mess of the snow over the last (2) days.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I tried Mountain camps method for the first time this year. One hive has actually eaten almost all the 30 pounds of sugar I put in it...


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## Jeffzhear (Dec 2, 2006)

Michael Bush said:


> I tried Mountain camps method for the first time this year. One hive has actually eaten almost all the 30 pounds of sugar I put in it...


For those that are using granular sugar; out of curiosity, how much sugar do you estimate the bees have used on average per hive.

I put three to five pounds of sugar per hive on and haven't had to refill sugar yet. And they have been working it nicely on these warm days. I would estimate that they have only used a pound or two per hive.

So, I was really surprised to read that one hive used 30 pounds. Were they wicked light to begin with?


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## Jon L (Dec 29, 2007)

Only 5 out of 10 of my colonys have started eating the sugar so far and id say the most one has taken is 4-6 pounds.

None of my hives in double deeps have moved to the top box for sugar yet.

I fed syurp in the fall till they stoped taking it before i put the sugar on the top bars.


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## MountainCamp (Apr 12, 2002)

Typically, they will use only a few pounds to 10 from December through say the end of January. When they start brood rearing and stores consumption pick-ups, so will the rate of consumption of the sugar. 
My hives were very light this year, so they had room to move the granular sugar to when they liquefied it. So, when I say that they have used as few as a couple of pounds to over 30 lbs. That's the reason, but that is also from the end of October to now.
The location of the cluster will play into consumption as well. A cluster that is low in cold below mid 20's, will not move to use the sugar on top. But, a cluster that has moved vertical is under the sugar at the same temps will be working it from the underside. 
They will create a cavern in the hard / caked sugar. So, many times you will not know that they are doing it till the break through to the top.
But, even if they never eat any of the sugar, it has absorbed moisture and kept condensation from getting the cluster wet. 
It was there if they needed it and the sugar can still be used to make syrup or put away till next winter to be used again.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Were they wicked light to begin with?

Yes. Mine were starving and my back was out when I fed them the dry sugar to try to keep them from starving. I would have fed them syrup, but I just couldn't get the work done with my back messed up. Feeding them the sugar was difficult enough.


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## Jeffzhear (Dec 2, 2006)

Thanks Jon L, Mountaincamp and Michael Bush, I appreciate your response. It helps me put into perspective what my bees are doing. In my case, the hives were not light and had a full deep and medium going into November. Michael, sorry to hear of your back troubles and the fact that your hives were light. It does make sense to me now reading how much sugar your hives are going through. Same goes for Michael.

Mountain, thanks for your perspective. I am sure that I probably have a few hollowed out caverns under the sugar caps. I'll keep an eye on them and add sugar as appropriate. 

I did salvage the sugar from a combine of two late season swarms that starved and put it under one of the hot air vents in my basement to dry it out for re-use later in time.


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## DoubleB (Sep 23, 2006)

I believe I read somewhere that even the powdered sugar has starch in it. Granulated sugar on inner cover for me...


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