# Whats the best Extractor.



## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

as my old shop teacher would have suggested...

there ain't no such thing as best, if there was a best everyone would drive a dodge (incert preferred name of vehicle).

there should be a number of threads here and in the consumer report to address some of your questions.

ps... when you do buy that nice shiny new and bigger extractor you can send me your old worn out and practically worthless 12 frame extractor.


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## Jeffzhear (Dec 2, 2006)

I never owned a maxant and doubt I ever will. I have a Dadant SS 20 frame radial and it works wonderfully well for me. I can see going larger in the future, but what I have is fine for now. I can't talk to the larger units.


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## MAXANT (Sep 13, 2008)

Well, like I told you before, you wont see any large extractors coming out of Maxant in the near future. We will make a few more 30/60 frames
Why would we use food grade grease on parts that arent in contact with the honey? Yes, we use a casting, why.....the clips that are spot welded on the reels will break off at some point, unless they are willing to go the extra mile and TIG a nice bead on the underside. 
Dadant uses 20 g. not 16. That would be major overkill.
You may want to look into the equinox line as well.
Good luck with your search 

PS. Asking this type question is like asking "Whats better, Ford or Chevy?"


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## bermybee (Nov 2, 2008)

MAXANT said:


> Well, like I told you before, you wont see any large extractors coming out of Maxant in the near future. We will make a few more 30/60 frames
> Why would we use food grade grease on parts that arent in contact with the honey? Yes, we use a casting, why.....the clips that are spot welded on the reels will break off at some point, unless they are willing to go the extra mile and TIG a nice bead on the underside.
> Dadant uses 20 g. not 16. That would be major overkill.
> You may want to look into the equinox line as well.
> ...


Thanks for the advice about the clips, I will definitely look into that. :thumbsup:

As for the grease problem I am not sure if I didn’t explain myself clearly enough, but this is how I understood what you guys told me. The way I interpreted it, correct me if I am wrong, one of your costumer had complained to you about one of the extractors they purchased from you leaking grease into their honey after leaving the extractor running for an extended period of time. I’m guessing the grease heated up causing it to turn into an oil like state, it then leaked out of the bearings. I can’t say exactly how long the extractor was running or how it managed to mix in with the honey. (Whether or not the grease trickled down the comb shape bottom of the extractor or was centrifugally thrown out against the side of the extractor or both I can’t say for sure.)
This is a quote of the email Dadant sent me on the issue of the gauge of stainless steel used. Goes to show that Dadant is willing to go the “extra mile” to earn the right to say what they stated at the top of page 69 in their magazine. http://publishing.yudu.com/Freedom/.../index.htm?referrerUrl=http://www.dadant.com/
“
RE: ‏
From: Dadant Customer Service ([email protected]) 

Sent: Fri 10/03/08 2:17 PM

The 84-frame extractor has always been 16 gauge. The 60 frame extractor was 20 gauge until about 2004, it is now 16 gauge with an inverted cone bottom. The current literature does indicate 16 gauge.

Regards,
Dadant & Sons, Inc
51 South 2nd St.
Hamilton IL 62341
217-847-3324
217-847-3660 fax
www.dadant.com
email: [email protected] 
“

PS . When I first stepped in to your establishment you guys told me your extractors where considered to be the “Cadillac’s” of the extractor world. Why would you now compare yourself to a “Ford or Chevy”? Not to say they are not great cars also. 

What would you rather drive. :scratch:


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## MAXANT (Sep 13, 2008)

*response*

Some answers to your post. 


bermybee said:


> I’ve had a Dadant 12 frame for some time now and I’ve tortured the thing four the last couple of years as it is really too small for my operation. I double loaded the thing with 28 mediums all the time, and before I got Dadant sump last year I use to leave it running with the gate closed after coming back form cleaning the SS bucket filter the motor would have slowed down because the honey was touching the bottom of the reel. (wanted an excuse to get a bigger extractor didn’t work though still runs like new) I was wandering what your opinion on their larger line of extractors (pros and cons).
> 
> I’m torn between Dadant and Maxant. Maxant professes to make the best extractors:scratch: . I have spent quite some time at Maxant and I can’t see why they are considered the best.:scratch:Maxant has built a reputation of quality and reliability for 40+ years.
> Dadants 60 and 84 2004- are make completely out of 304 SS(including Reel, channel & legs ) with a 16 gauge tank and coned bottom with center drain.
> ...


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## MAXANT (Sep 13, 2008)

Every extractor has its pros and cons. Its your money, and you need to buy what YOU think is best!
Dadant has been around longer than anyone, and makes great equipment. 
I still think you want the Parallel Radial though......:shhhh:


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## birdsnbees (Jul 10, 2008)

Have seen used galvanized extractors out there. My question is: Do folks put something on the inside of their extractors between seasons to prevent rust?


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## bermybee (Nov 2, 2008)

MAXANT said:


> Some answers to your post.


I am in no way trying to imply that everything that you guys make is not built to a high standard. I would have to stupid/blind to say that. The red and SS looks grate by the way. For example your bottling tanks (minus the no drip gate, even you pointed me to Dadant which has a SS version) are the BEST that I’ve seen, Dadant and Mann Lake can’t compare.( unless your looking for the cheap way out, not that there is anything wrong with that). 
As for this whole rust thing, I do know SS will rust, I’ve left a tank 304, 16 gauge tank outside in the weather for a month and have noticed rust spots forming on it.(easily remove with acid solution or Comet). I’ve also seen “Powder Coated” aluminum windows, aluminum blinds get holes corroded in them. Washer, Dryers, Fridges “Crafts Man” tool boxes, and the list goes on. I’ve seen them all rust. ( Price you pay for living in paradise, if you want to call it that.)
I’m sure that when the channel and legs do start to rust it will be a couple of decades before they rust strait through. But wouldn’t it be nice not to have to worry about looking at the rust or repainting parts, that’s all I’m trying to say .( I don’t know about you but I would prefer a little bit of SS polish over sandpaper and a paint brush or spray can any day. Just call me lazy) 

I’m not saying that that SOLID aluminum reel is going to melt away in my lifetime. Aluminum and food safety whether or not most beekeepers worry about this, is another subject. One might say very little honey touches the reel, true, but here is an interesting web site on the issue, though you have to read the whole thing to get the jest, not that long though. 

http://www.foodmanufacturing.com/scripts/ShowPR~RID~6986.asp 

No I’m not looking for an extractor or other beekeeping equipment to meet “3-A” standards, but wouldn’t it be nice to know that there is no need to worry aluminum health effect (has bin linked Alzheimer’s) or change in food regulations. I don’t know for sure but I’m guessing this is what happened to the galvanized stuff. Again, yes like the galvanized stuff you can paint over it with a food grade paint if you feel energetic. 

As for the Tripod statement I never in no way implied that your extractors will tip over. That would be crazy since almost every other extractor on the market only has three legs, including my old 12 frame. But what I was told by you guys is that some how this tripod method is better the four legged method. Please elaborate. Less holes in the floor? 

I’m sure Dadant spent quit a bit of money and time some where in the last 100+ year on making sure the channel didn’t collapse. Doesn’t all that channel have to support the torque and the weight of the motor and any unbalance that the fames may create if it is built properly? Doesn’t the bottom bearing support 95% of the weight? E.g. capping spinners, car wheels they only have bearings on one side does that mean my car wheel it going to fall off ? I’m guessing this is why Dadant’s and Mann lakes extractor both have extra support underneath (and four legs) and yours only has a belt around the perimeter (doesn't use the bottom to support as much weight?). I’m not gonna argue over what design is better I have a degree in electronic engineering not mechanical. 

This brings me to my next point about the “Hospital Grade” timer vs. “Bathroom Heat light” timer. I Hope your not paying extra for the marketing hype. What is it more accurate, quieter, LOL if anything. Because it is soooo important for the extractor to be running for exactly 20min 00sec instead of 20min and 23.1sec. God forbid it gets stuck then the grease ends up getting in the honey. “Just make sure you check the timer when you go over there to turn up the speed” (not self advancing) Come on now. 

As for the food grade grease again I’m sure that the food grade grease is trash. Would not that mean they would use a better bearing to run with the FGG. I my self would rather buy new bearings every 20 years then loose over 900 gallons of honey because the health inspector fund high quantities of hydro-carbons in my honey. As for you talking about the bearings are sealed. Maybe I am used to the European way (if there it a difference I don’t know) of doing a sealed for life bearing, but I’ve never seen a grease fitting on them so the seal can’t be that great .( The grease lost must go somewhere) Guess that’s another benefit of the parallel radial being the bearings are on the outside of the tank.


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## bermybee (Nov 2, 2008)

birdsnbees said:


> Have seen used galvanized extractors out there. My question is: Do folks put something on the inside of their extractors between seasons to prevent rust?


I know that Walter T. Kelley and Brushy Mountain sells a clear epoxy coating for that reason. Though I'm sure you would be able to find a Food aproved coating else where also. 

http://go.netgrab.com/secure/kelleystore/asp/product.asp?product=94

http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/prodinfo.asp?number=615


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## Constance (Sep 11, 2008)

Forget about coatings on any surface in contact with honey. 
1) Either it's not food grade (at least in Europe) or its adhesion to the metal is insufficient
2) You'll never get a surface as smooth as electro-polished SS. Hence, honey will stick to it much better. Have fun with the cleaning after work.

Concerning CFM/Carl Fritz: They have pretty high level extractors in the mid-size range (i.e. for radials around 12-24). Price is upper level, quality is upper mid-range but service in Germany is not the best. I'd say there's several ones around in Europe which are at least as good but cheaper, e.g. Lega, Thomas, Giordan, Graze and some others.

Maxant is right, if you really need a 60/84 framer go for a parallel radial or for two around 30:
1) parallel radial means much less broken combs. I'll never go back to anything else. In addition they need less space, less time to spin and can be easily incorporated into more automated setups.
2) two 30 framers have a higher throughput than one 60 framer, especially if you're working with little staff. Throughput is much more continuous and if you have a small crop, just stay with one of them - less cleaning.

Rust and salt-water: Ever thought about food grade petrolatum? 

Kind regards from Lake Constance


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## Fuzzy (Aug 4, 2005)

“But what I was told by you guys is that some how this tripod method is better the four legged method. Please elaborate.”

The tripod is the only truly stable configuration. As long as the triangle formed by the legs surrounds the center of gravity of the extractor, it will always rest properly on the surface. 

A square, rectangular, or otherwise multi-legged stand will NEVER sit perfectly with all legs touching the floor. In fact, with either 4, 5, or 6, legs, the unit will sit ONLY on three legs. The other legs may be close, but will not in fact be touching the floor. 
This causes the slight wobble in every chair or table. Unfortunately, with the extractor being taller than it is wide (usually), any wobble in the base is amplified by the height of the extractor. If the base has a wobble of 1/16, the top of the extractor may have 1/8 or 3/16 side to side movement, before trying to spin any honey. 

Regards -- Fuzzy


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## berkshire bee (Jan 28, 2007)

As with any manufactured product, there are always trade offs. You have to balance performance with costs. You could give me any extractor out there and I could find ways to beef it up and improve it, but would someone be willing to pay the extra cost? If an extractor tank made of 18 ga stainless will last 60 or 70 years, how much more would you pay for one that will last 100 yrs?

After close to 30 years in metal manufacturing one thing I'd recommend is looking at welds when you go to buy something. I'll take a tig welded product any day over spotwelding or wire feed tack welds.


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## MAXANT (Sep 13, 2008)

TIG welding is an art!


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## Paraplegic Racehorse (Jan 25, 2007)

I'm still convinced that the best "extractor" is a press. I'm a little disappointed as I can only find a powered (not hand-cranked) press from Swienty. With the rise of TBHs, maybe somebody could get a little profit by making powered press machines (Hint, Hint! Maxant and Cowen!!!)


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## 67630 (Jul 17, 2008)

MAXANT said:


> TIG welding is an art!


Yep, and you guys do a fine job.


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## berkshire bee (Jan 28, 2007)

Yes, I used to love tig welding. We made customized enclosures for many electronic components. Some were cans 24 thousandths of an inch thick and had tolerances of plus or minus .005 after welding

Maxant, One of these days I'll get out to your side of the state for a grand tour


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## MAXANT (Sep 13, 2008)

berkshire bee said:


> Yes, I used to love tig welding. We made customized enclosures for many electronic components. Some were cans 24 thousandths of an inch thick and had tolerances of plus or minus .005 after welding
> 
> Maxant, One of these days I'll get out to your side of the state for a grand tour


We always welcome people to come by and check out the shop to see what we are up to!


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

berkshire writes:
I'll take a tig welded product any day over spotwelding or wire feed tack welds.

tecumseh:
well this is definitely ONE thing that speaks to quality while the latter speaks to speed (of process) and saving a buck in the manufacturing of certain products (typically aluminum and stainless steel).

there are certain other characteristics (such as a totally non porous seam) that might also make tig welding the preferred process. 

as far as tig welding being an art form... I would suggest not really.


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

Gotta throw in my .02 worth. Since I live close by and since my son works nearby at a local machine shop, I've been to Maxant and I own a smaller (9f) extractor. TIG welding may not be an art form but TIG welding, done well, is something to be appreciated. 

Walking through the Maxant shop will leave you with the impression that none of their equipment has been built with any expectation of wearing out. In fact, I think their business model is making you successful so that you outgrow your older Maxant equipment and need to buy bigger stuff. They even keep bees in back so you know they're into it the right way. I have no doubt that the same thing could be said about Dadant so don't take this the wrong way, but I have experience with Maxant and I appreciate anything that's well made (although, you didn't make any hive scales this year and I was really aching to buy one last spring...hint ....hint....). Even their mouse guards are great...maybe the best on the market. 

I live in a 200+ year old house. About 100 years ago, the owner decided to lift the barn (timber frame construction --- hand cut drawpegs holding everything together....) and rotate it 90 degrees. There are accounts in town regarding how the old barn just settled in tighter as they raised it and spun it around. 

Anything well built is well owned. Go with what you like the best or, as I did, try to stay local first.


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## bermybee (Nov 2, 2008)

Well Christmas came early this year. When I went back home for the thanks giving week break (to take off honey). I was happy to find a beautiful brand new 60 frame segmented reel Dadant extractor sitting in my honey house. All the welds are excellent and there is not doubt that the whole thing (minus the lids) is at least 16 gauge. (Digital caliper tested) After looking it over, I could only find one flaw. The Brake left more to be desired. Don’t get me wrong worked grate just wouldn’t put them on my Audi. lol I will have to say Maxant got them beat there.:thumbsup:The reel is completely MIG welded with no spot welds or clips like there smaller models. The only thing spot-welded is the motor / brake cover. Speed control (After changing the ramp setting) was phenomenal managed to brake three frame but when I factor in how dry the frame came out and that fact that it was one frame per 300 gallon holding tank I can live with that. 

As for the whole three legs is better then four (Fuzzy thanks for the great explanation sound spot on theoretically as most things do and um sure you are 100% correct with what you stated. However this could then open an argument that being the legs are flat on the bottom and not pointed that only one edge of any given leg would be touching the ground this would also throw off the perfect center of gravity, after witch bolting firmly to the ground would have the same effect of lifting the other one or two legs, could it not?). One of the other main beekeepers that own a Carl Fritz 42 framer commented on how quite and steady our extractor was compared to his, I’ve seen his running at full speed and it’s very hard to compare which one is more stable. They both sway about a 1/5 of an inch. (I can assure you after anchoring three ½-inch bolts per leg to the concrete floor it might have twisted a little but all four legs are firmly on the ground.) 

Tried out my other new toy also, the decapping plane, worked grate (“just keep busy” get some one else to do what little it missed). However, I would (as would another beekeeper I spoke with) make improvements it. THERMOSTAT. I used a shallow bucket of cold what started as cold water, and didn’t managed not to get shocked, though it put a nice crack down the handle. (Something had to be done about the smoke and the switch was not the answer.) I was also thinking you guys should also continue the SAME blade to the top and put another sharp edge on less of an angle, so if you was to flip it over you could use it to clean off the top and the bottom of the frames (with out taking half the wood off the frame). Next year I am either going to get more planes or an automatic decapper.:scratch: 

The hive tools that you gave (thanks again) me worked grate also (as expected). Well the ones that you make (hardened, anther thing I would put and BEST label on). The other ones will look like horseshoes by the end of the next year, nothing new. Liked the old design ones better, easer on the hands when using the backside of it to pop frames.:thumbsup:


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## jjgbee (Oct 12, 2006)

*Cowan is the only way to go.*

I had a Cowan paralell radial, 18 frame. I would average 90 boxes in 9 hours with only one operator. That is 90 boxes, 2,700 lb of 14% moisture honey, in the barrels in 9 hrs. The automatic conveyor rails for load and unload are what makes the diffrence. Cowan now makes a 32 frame system as their smallest machine.


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

IMO Kelly has the best extractor...No plastic parts, plenty of room in the bottom to hold honey so you can bottle right out of the extractor.


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## bermybee (Nov 2, 2008)

jjgbee said:


> I had a Cowan paralell radial, 18 frame. I would average 90 boxes in 9 hours with only one operator. That is 90 boxes, 2,700 lb of 14% moisture honey, in the barrels in 9 hrs. The automatic conveyor rails for load and unload are what makes the diffrence. Cowan now makes a 32 frame system as their smallest machine.


 I think your right you no. I would have got got that type of extractor if i had the space for the rails. Maxant is the only one as for as i no that makes them with out the need for the rail. Which is why i was disappointed to find out %45 of it was Aluminum and that their bigger model it used three section instead of two or four like the Cowen. This makes loading the second section more complicated then it ever needs to be. Other then that it's a very unique and a and the design of it is excellent.:thumbsup: Plus it's a big space saver when compared to a regular radial and the controllers on it actually fit there application also.:thumbsup: The way the frames lock in place is neat also. IMO Maxant should concentrate more on that type of extractor think they may have got something there. I mean isn't it the BEST method of extracting anyway.


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## bermybee (Nov 2, 2008)

bluegrass said:


> IMO Kelly has the best extractor...No plastic parts, plenty of room in the bottom to hold honey so you can bottle right out of the extractor.


:no: Did you just say Kelly Bottling out of the extractor. I knew sooner or later somethings tragic like this would happen. lol Did someone not read the title. Just messing with you. Do your thaang.

Ps Not sure if your talking about one that sits over a tank but most extractors with a coned/inverted bottom including my 60frame hold about one full load worth of honey.


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## bermybee (Nov 2, 2008)

tecumseh said:


> as my old shop teacher would have suggested...
> 
> there ain't no such thing as best, if there was a best everyone would drive a dodge (incert preferred name of vehicle).
> 
> ...



http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225764


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

If you truly want the BEST EXTRACTOR EVER MADE there is only ONE!! They dont make them any more. I dont think anyone who has used one will disagree.....HUBBARD!!! They made a 44 frame and a 80 frame. Very heavy stainless with cone bottom all welded! Anyone disagree??


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## bermybee (Nov 2, 2008)

suttonbeeman said:


> If you truly want the BEST EXTRACTOR EVER MADE there is only ONE!! They dont make them any more. I dont think anyone who has used one will disagree.....HUBBARD!!! They made a 44 frame and a 80 frame. Very heavy stainless with cone bottom all welded! Anyone disagree??



:s:sDo you have any pictures of one of these extractors? How was it driven?
You do realize all the both Maxant and Dadant both MIG or TIG weld every thing. Dadant uses 16 gauge i can't see anyone using thicker metal on an extractor.


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## MAXANT (Sep 13, 2008)

Dadant used 16 gauge on that line to compensate the sheet metal crossbar. Smaller extractors are not 16 gauge. Regardless, its a nice machine :thumbsup:


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## RDY-B (May 20, 2007)

I give them both a ten-not many places to buy a big real anymore-
Got my new kelly catolog today looks like maxant has steped up to the plate with fine american craftmanship -buy AMERICAN the job you save may be your own :applause: RDY-B


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## dbest (Aug 9, 2005)

I just ordered an Equinox. $7100 with the pump in the extractor. I have yet to arrange pick up or shipping.

http://equinoxextracting.com/detal.php?s_Categoria=1&s_Id=7


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## MAXANT (Sep 13, 2008)

The crew in Mexico that builds Equinox equipment really makes some nice machines. Have seen a few at show. Very nice craftsmanship. To bad they dont speak english to answer questions. opcorn:


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## RDY-B (May 20, 2007)

MAXANT said:


> The crew in Mexico that builds Equinox equipment really makes some nice machines. Have seen a few at show. Very nice craftsmanship. To bad they dont speak english to answer questions. opcorn:


I gave them a six on detail but yes very functional machine-speaking of questions-MAXANT how do you remove the basket from the 1200-30 spiner-is it done with those small bolts-that bolt the basket to the spider or is it with the eye bolt through the shaft-those bolts on the basket look easy to break or damage-I have been taking the machine screws out of the sheet metal floor to remove them for cleaning-and havent taken out the basket is taking out the basket reliable-for reasembley -in other words is it going to go back together without the litel bolts breaking-or is there another way-RDY-B


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## MAXANT (Sep 13, 2008)

Use the eye bolt. You can cut down on cleaning time by lining the inner basket with window screen when using. :thumbsup:


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## RDY-B (May 20, 2007)

What about the combo unit-will the basket clear the rails of the uncapper- RDY-B


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## MAXANT (Sep 13, 2008)

That gets taken off. It is very easy to do. The uncapper does not weigh much at all. It has 4 rollers and lifts right up, which then exposes the framerail. 4 bolts, and viola!


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## bermybee (Nov 2, 2008)

RDY-B said:


> I gave them a six on detail but yes very functional machine-speaking of questions-MAXANT how do you remove the basket from the 1200-30 spiner-is it done with those small bolts-that bolt the basket to the spider or is it with the eye bolt through the shaft-those bolts on the basket look easy to break or damage-I have been taking the machine screws out of the sheet metal floor to remove them for cleaning-and havent taken out the basket is taking out the basket reliable-for reasembley -in other words is it going to go back together without the litel bolts breaking-or is there another way-RDY-B


That is another thing about DADANT you cannot beat them when it comes to documentation on there products. Exploded diagrams, detailed specs, parts list, so there are very little questions, when it comes to buying, using or the unlikely event of repairing their products. 
But of curse both MAXANT and DADANT are just a phone call or a click away from an answer.


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