# Okay, That's It



## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

I've had it. Now this site is advertising fentanyl. If the moderators can't clean up this mess I'm gone


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## Ranger N (Sep 23, 2020)

I am with you mr Palmer. I am now even seeing political advertisements pop up. I hope they get a handle on it soon or I will be pulling out as well.


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## JasonA (Aug 29, 2014)

I saw it too. Reported the post i saw.


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## HuskerBee (Apr 28, 2018)

Not that you should have to but there are free Ad blocker downloads available. I us "AdBlock" saves me from having to look at most of the crap (some sites wont allow you to navigate them with it on) and you can disable it for individual sites if it is one you really want to be on.


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## elmer_fud (Apr 21, 2018)

I am running firefox on a laptop and I have add block plus. It is blocking all of the adds.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Well you can block what ads you see.

However MP, like myself, might object to supporting a site that is running harmful ads, to society in general. 

I'm not going to run off and buy fentanyl just cos I saw an ad, but others might and the site should not be encouraged to run this type of content.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Moderators cannot do anything about spam threads unless they _know_ about those threads. When you see spam, use the "Report" function to alert moderators. _We are not mind-readers!_

The Report button/function is accessed by clicking the three dots on the right side of every message and then choosing "Report".

As far as I can tell, what was posted was a _thread_, not an "_ad_" per se. If you see a spam thread, report it using the "Report" function.


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## Robert Holcombe (Oct 10, 2019)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> Moderators cannot do anything about spam threads unless they _know_ about those threads. When you see spam, use the "Report" function to alert moderators. _We are not mind-readers!_
> 
> The Report button/function is accessed by clicking the three dots on the right side of every message and then choosing "Report".
> 
> As far as I can tell, what was posted was a _thread_, not an "_ad_" per se. If you see a spam thread, report it using the "Report" function.


"Spam" and "Threads" have no meaning to me except as a can of food or thread for a needle. You do have a technical problem if it does not belong on this site as a sanctioned ad.


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## Surly L (Oct 28, 2018)

Ads don't work like that. Every one sees different ads. Google customizes them based on your browsing history. Some are in common, as in the bee related ones because Google knows this is a bee site. 
Try this for a week:
Google dog food. Go to dog food sites. Go to dog forums. 
Google Depends. Look up incontinence on WebMD.
Now check out your ads.

Have some fun:
Get on your friends computer and search for sex toys and lingerie every time they leave their desk 

Google allows a site to block certain ads, but if the mods cant see the ad you are seeing they can't notify google. We asked for it and now its here.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Surly L said:


> Ads don't work like that. Every one sees different ads. Google customizes them based on your browsing history. Some are in common, as in the bee related ones because Google knows this is a bee site.


With that reasoning, I get the ad because I searched for fentanyl?


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

I am pretty sure the original problem MP saw was a "Thread", _not_ an "Ad" served up by Google etc.

That means that some _ne'er-do-well_ joined Beesource as a member and then posted 'spam'. Below is a screenshot that I captured before the thread got the old heave-ho and the member blocked:










If you come across future inappropriate threads or messages similar to the one shown, please use the "Report" button to notify a moderator, and the offending message will be removed and the associated email will be blacklisted.


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## Cloverdale (Mar 26, 2012)

Surly L said:


> Ads don't work like that. Every one sees different ads. Google customizes them based on your browsing history. Some are in common, as in the bee related ones because Google knows this is a bee site.
> Try this for a week:
> Google dog food. Go to dog food sites. Go to dog forums.
> Google Depends. Look up incontinence on WebMD.
> ...


This is why I do not use google search or bing, I use DuckDuckGo


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## mtnmyke (Apr 27, 2017)

Surely L is correct about the ads, to a point.

There will always be random ads pushed through adsense. Google had to preview the amount of ads the customer paid for.

However, they are mostly customized. I recently bought a mattress online. All my ads have been for competing mattress companies. (when ad blocker is off)

Netflix has a great documentary called "The Social Dilemma" that goes over how it all works.

With that said, the way this forum is designed is exactly what causes a lot of problems. Notifications, tokens, whatever, are all designed to keep you active on the site which means you see more ads, which means more revenue.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

mtnmyke said:


> Notifications, tokens, whatever, are all designed to keep you active on the site which means your see more and, which means more revenue.


This is how the current IT consumer industry works *as a whole *- in case someone still did not notice.
Take Windows 10 as a basic example - exactly how it works.
And so on.

This is also why the technology providers want you all to upgrade to the "latest and greatest" - so to automatically track your life 24/7, know all about you, and sell stuff to you as efficiently as possible.

This new site is only one indication of the modern times.
You either adapt and play the game (and hopefully win some) OR you get out and go OFF-LINE.
Simple as that (well, easy to say - hard to actually do).

Anyone still clinging to the old technology (e.g. old BS forum) will be just pushed aside and turned off. Just saying like it is.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Strange times. On the old BS, I was censured for saying Hell in a reply, and for saying Pussy Willow in another. Now there are ads for fentanyl, embedded in the replies to a thread, and I have to do something on my own if I don't like it. Right


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

del


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

You think Barry signed a "no Compete" clause when he sold???

Crazy Roland


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## Steve in PA (Jan 26, 2015)

I get no popups with the Opera Browser but I am also looking for another beekeeping site. This new format BLOWS.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Steve in PA said:


> I am also looking for another beekeeping site.


Unfortunately, there are no others as popular (unless you want to learn other languages) and UNLESS you go to Facebook (God forbid! I stay away...).


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## Nicksotherhoney (Jun 10, 2017)

I hope beesource will do something about this and make it right. I’d hate to see people who are very valuable to this community and interested in showing the new beekeepers the way,leave because of something like this.


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## joebeewhisperer (May 13, 2020)

Michael Palmer said:


> With that reasoning, I get the ad because I searched for fentanyl?


I agree with your sentiment Mr Palmer. We live in a small community in the mountains of TN where fentanyl OD deaths this year far outpace C19 deaths. 

I am a professional programmer and a sideline obsessive beek. I realize they are allowing a cycling of ads they cannot fully control. But if I see something objectionable (and particularly if it is a pattern), I vote with my pocketbook. Canceled Netflix after 10-year run. I miss the format, but always taught my kids that a financial boycott is a very effective tool, and at minimum you can draw a line and stand by your principles. 

Also realize that there are real people at the other end of the websites, servers, networks etc. and not one of them would want to willingly promote this killer.


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## Tigger19687 (Dec 27, 2014)

This particular format does stink for forums. I had another forum I used to go to and stopped because of this format. It's just not one I enjoy. Mods also need to vet new posters better to stop what MP saw.
FB is a joke and Not a replacement for a forum.

At home I use FireFox and all ads ( the kind you see on the side and in between posts) but on my tablet at work I have to see them all 
Wish they would go back to old forum


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## Jim_in_PA (May 17, 2016)

Report it in Community Help to the Administrators. The spam filter apparently needs tuning. I moderate at more than one site using this same version of Xenforo (owned by the same operator...they have a custom version) and this stuff usually gets caught in the approval queue but sometimes something slips through. I will also emphasize that this is not "advertising" blessed by and paid for to the forum site owners/operators. It's SPAM, plain and simple, and the folks that post it get more and more sophisticated about getting around controls every day.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Jim_in_PA said:


> I will also emphasize that this is not "advertising" blessed by and paid for to the forum site owners/operators. *It's SPAM, plain and simple,* and the folks that post it get more and more sophisticated about getting around controls every day.


Exactly.
The SPAM <> ads.
Report spam posters and get them blocked.
Just do a quick "Report" and done..

As far as the ads - block them globally in your browser.
Once and done.

Things are NOT as terrible as they my feel like.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

Reminds me of the time my church website had an ad with a naked woman on it. I am not a prude at all, but thought that a bit inappropriate.


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## calkal (Feb 2, 2019)

The Social Dilemma was extremely eye opening.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Please use the report function whenever you find objectionable material. In most cases, a moderator will have it deleted within a few hours. We have jobs too. The site tracks IP addresses and if a previously reported address is used, it goes into an approval file where we can review and delete as necessary. Thanks everyone for your help with this problem.


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

To Mike and everyone else - Please do not get angry at Beesource for the transgressions of a drug ***#0Le who saw our community as a free ad opportunity. You, Sir Michael Palmer, along with Sir Oldtimer and a few other elite contributors, are the main reason our team is still winning against the odds, the mites, the pendejos who just can't wait to say, "You can't do that!", the insecticides, the fungicides, and so many others things we beekeepers are up against. You are the backbone of American beekeeping, and this is a very high quality connection to other beekeepers around the world. I sincerely hope you do not leave.

Socrates said, "To get angry? That is easy enough - everyone does it, mostly too often and too much. But to get EXACTLY angry enough - no more and not much less, with the RIGHT PERSON, for the RIGHT REASON, and in the RIGHT WAY to get them to not do what you do not want them to do or to get them to do what you want them to do, THAT IS EXTREMELY RARE."

Socrates may have thought the queen bee was a king bee, but he did get a lot of things right. He may have been somewhat miffed at pop-up ads had he had a laptop as well, and perhaps would have let out some prime Greek expletives a time or two in the pace of our modern day, but fortunately, he left us the above statement and a few other writings worth reading.

Your posts, Oldtimer's, Bernard Heuvel's, fusion-power's, and a number of others are worth reading, too. I dearly hope you will continue, and I am also thankful for the advice about ad-blocker software, Mozilla firefox, and for the diligent efforts of our super moderators. Beesource rocks! Let's stick together to keep it that way.


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## theresalynn (Oct 1, 2018)

Someone suggested switch web browsers and recommended Brave. I made the switch and have no ads at all to deal with


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## BenjaminM (Mar 10, 2020)

Michael Palmer said:


> Now there are ads for fentanyl, embedded in the replies to a thread, and I have to do something on my own if I don't like it. Right


I believe you are mistaken.

From the photos posted, it appears someone just created an account and posted random spam. In this case the thread was for drugs. Either of us could do the same thing in under 5 minutes.

And keep in mind, the Admins are only people too, with full time jobs and lives outside of a forum. In general, I wouldn't consider it unreasonable for 24 hours to get a response to a flagged topic, here or anywhere else. And if no one flags it, it could stay up indefinitely.

Also for the ads you see in general, or for that fact, the recommended videos on YouTube. BEWARE you do not have to even search. Simply talking out loud is enough.

Over the weekend a friend was verbally telling me about StopSaw, a table saw that yanks the blade down if you touch it. That evening YouTube serves up StopSaw videos. Similarly after me telling my friend about beekeeping a few months ago, guess what Facebook recommends to him?

Also if you use the customer advantage cards, the stores track your purchases and sell that that information to Facebook and the like. There is a great story about a father getting adds from Target for prenatal products for his daughter, and getting mad, only to find out Target saw what she had been buying and realized she was pregnate before he did.

You can't convince me our phone aren't listening. Not people, but a computer algorithm. Whats even creepier is the police can now solve crimes for which there are no witnesses or evidence left behind, because they can track what cell phones were in a certain area, at a certain time. Should you ever need to dump a body after a bad fentynal deal gone awry, LEAVE YOUR PHONE AT HOME!

Let me get back to bee keeping before I drag you too far down this rabbit hole.


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## Eaglerock (Jul 8, 2008)

Could it be that they sell them the space for the ads to cover cost if this forum?


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## Eaglerock (Jul 8, 2008)

How to block annoying ads using an ad blocker


How to stop seeing too many ads and keep companies from following you around online. An ad blocker guide from the Firefox web browser.




www.mozilla.org


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## blackowl (Jul 8, 2015)

I saw this one too. I'm sure the admin will do something about this.


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## Marg (Aug 31, 2020)

myrdale said:


> Simply talking out loud is enough.


It can go the other way too. I was telling my brother and his wife about my bees adventure. The next day my sister-in-law's phone was flooded with adds about bees and hive tools.


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## Admin (Mar 3, 2007)

Hey there friends,

Apologies that spam has been on the uptick here in the forums for a short bit - we've been seeing a small wave of it climbing across the network and other forums for a few weeks now, and have been working to make adjustments to the filters and preventative systems in place. Spammers are awfully wily, and it's frequently the case that whenever we make a change and tighten thresholds, they figure out a way around them within weeks if not days. It's a steady case of whack-a-mole. We've been fortunate in that we've been mostly winning on this fight, but really can use your help in identifying the stuff that should be flagged as spam.

As others have mentioned, when and if you should see threads like the one mentioned here, please do hit that Report option to give mods and admins a heads-up. Most threads like that are taken care of speedily, provided moderators see it pop up in the review queue. That way, we're also able to keep that information handy for when they come back and try to register again after being banned. A little help on flagging spam goes a long, long way to keeping them from flooding in.

Thanks for raising this in visibility, and really do appreciate your attention to forum quality. 

Warm Regards,
Joe Pishgar
Chief Community Officer, VerticalScope


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## Admin (Mar 3, 2007)

Eaglerock said:


> Could it be that they sell them the space for the ads to cover cost if this forum?


Not at all, in this case. There are paid ads on the site though this example was a spammer who managed to bypass the usual anti spam tools to be able to post. Its rare but sometimes you get a clever one that is not just a bot and a real person who has learned how to scale the walls we put up to block them. We learn from them when they get reported (and we show them the door) so we are less likely to see that one again. 
-Philip


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## Jim_in_PA (May 17, 2016)

@Admin , one thing I've seen an uptick on the sites I'm helping with is spammers doing a few innocuous posts to get recognized as real members before they post their link-spam. The typical "That's really great!" or "Thanks for posting that" type posts. That's helping some get by the automatic filers. Some are also spoofing origin IP addresses along with that, probably with VPNs, which isn't helping the automated sensing.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Jim, the generic posts you reference are one of the things I look for as a moderator. I have sent pm's to several asking if they are beekeepers or interested in bees. That is usually the last we hear from them as they now know someone is watching them. Another flag is the revival of old threads by a new poster. More often than not it is a spammer.


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## Admin (Mar 3, 2007)

Jim_in_PA said:


> @Admin , one thing I've seen an uptick on the sites I'm helping with is spammers doing a few innocuous posts to get recognized as real members before they post their link-spam. The typical "That's really great!" or "Thanks for posting that" type posts. That's helping some get by the automatic filers. Some are also spoofing origin IP addresses along with that, probably with VPNs, which isn't helping the automated sensing.


They are getting more clever for sure. The VPNs are often picked up by stopforumspam.com's plugin that we use here. It will often put the accounts into quarantine to be approved by the mods. Sometimes we are lucky and it just blocks them out right. Remaining vigilant in reporting and removing helps not only give them the boot but also helps add to the database that StopForumSpam maintains. I hate these spammers, but they are part of the internet's eco system if we want to allow new legit folks to join the party. Sometimes there will be one or two that tailgate into the closing door. 
-Philip


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## Admin (Mar 3, 2007)

JWPalmer said:


> Jim, the generic posts you reference are one of the things I look for as a moderator. I have sent pm's to several asking if they are beekeepers or interested in bees. That is usually the last we hear from them as they now know someone is watching them. Another flag is the revival of old threads by a new poster. More often than not it is a spammer.


This is good work! Another one to look for is people responding to WTB requests that are trying to direct someone off the site. We get these a lot on the classic car sites. People looking for hard to find parts become low hanging fruit for the worst of these scammers/scammers. 
-Philip


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## Admin (Mar 3, 2007)

The revivals will sometimes happen as a result of folks using search or the recommended reading. Sometimes they land here directly from google searches too. The flags if they are not using a VPN are the easy tell. Especially if its a thread clearly about bee keeping but they are talking about their dentist. 
-Philip


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## Trin (May 6, 2020)

Hey, technology is nice some of the time, and more and more showing an ugly side. All the same don't blame the recipient, blame the unscrupulous jerks who send bad stuff. Run a good security program and don't click on suspicious links. I ordered a business laptop some years ago. It was built in China and came pre-loaded with trojans, and really well crafted spy worms and such. I had to pay a computer security expert friend to remove the crap. He said it was fun as it was very challenging. Won't ever but a product from that company again.


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## elmer_fud (Apr 21, 2018)

JWPalmer said:


> Jim, the generic posts you reference are one of the things I look for as a moderator. I have sent pm's to several asking if they are beekeepers or interested in bees. That is usually the last we hear from them as they now know someone is watching them. Another flag is the revival of old threads by a new poster. More often than not it is a spammer.


I have seen and reported many of those, it seems to be what I see most often


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## Jim_in_PA (May 17, 2016)

Admin said:


> The VPNs are often picked up by stopforumspam.com'sgin that we use here.


Yes, that's true on the VerticalScope forums I help with, too. But lately, some have been getting missed.


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## Admin (Mar 3, 2007)

Jim_in_PA said:


> Yes, that's true on the VerticalScope forums I help with, too. But lately, some have been getting missed.


We have some new captcha tools in place to make things slower for those who make it through that maybe should not. 
-Philip


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## Tigger19687 (Dec 27, 2014)

When another forum I'm on changed to this type , there was a Huge amount of spam. It makes me think this one is not as strict as the other one.


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## LarryBud (Jul 19, 2020)

This is like click-bait! I looked up some tires for my truck on an unrelated website and now ever add on here is showing me tires. Going to log off and view the site through another browsers. And this is about money, the admins are making buckets of duckets between this and their other sites. Seems like an invasion of privacy.

Larrybud, signing off.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

LarryBud said:


> This is like click-bait! I looked up some tires for my truck on an unrelated website and now ever add on here is showing me tires. Going to log off and view the site through another browsers. And this is about money, the admins are making buckets of duckets between this and their other sites. Seems like an invasion of privacy.
> 
> *Larrybud, signing off.*


You have to realize - spying after you is not necessarily the feature of this forum IF at all.

In fact, *your very browser* is spying on you.
Not even the web site - the browser.
See that?
See the basic difference?

I am not sure how else to explain this current and yet very simple thing.
Strange that people are just now discovering the obvious (and presume it is the BS forum is spying after them).


The Microsoft, Google, Mozilla and others - pretty much ALL mainstream browser makers are spying on you AND pulling the information about you back to the head-quarters - this is how you get targeted by the ads - based on your usage and traffic history AND the modern website platforms.
Admittedly - this is why everyone wants the web sites to be upgraded to the "latest and greatest", including the BS - so it is easier to spy on the users.
The obsolete platforms are just no longer supported and pushed aside - because they don't support the "latest and greatest" ways to spy on people.

Like I have been saying - *get off the Internet and turn off your smart phone in general IF truly concerned about the Big Tech spying on you.*
The BS forum is peanuts.
Not much to see here.
There is much, much bigger fish to fry.
If you use a browser and a smart phone - you are being spied on (BS or no BS - not that important).
If you use the Internet, you WILL BE spied on regardless of whether or not you come back to the BS forum.


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## AzaleaHill (Mar 11, 2018)

myrdale said:


> Simply talking out loud is enough.
> 
> Over the weekend a friend was verbally telling me about StopSaw, a table saw that yanks the blade down if you touch it. That evening YouTube serves up StopSaw videos. Similarly after me telling my friend about beekeeping a few months ago, guess what Facebook recommends to him?


It is well known that the Messenger app function of Facebook listens to all voices through the mike of your phone - whether you are using it or not. If you have your phone on a night stand and are talking to your wife, automated Facebook marketing is taking notes. I only use Facebook through a browser.

Another insidious listener is the Alexa device from Google. If you have a home office or meet with clients in your home, you ought not to use an Alexa device.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

I just rejoined Worldwide Beekeeping. It's privately held. BeekeepingForums.com has ads, has a lot of historical posts, almost no current members, I somehow ended up as an admin when the original remembers left after the site was sold, Because it's below the radar we don't get a ton of spam. I hoped the original beesource was still here when I logged in today. Apparently I was wrong but I'll still look around a little. Also, just a tip, I use DuckDuckGo for searches. And I don't use the Microsoft cloud either. I don't get as much stuff following me around that way. And my phone does not Facebook at all. It doesn't even do this site I don't think.


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

I have been searching for information on the Sweet Clovers, etc. Some of the search results lead to Landscaping companies. Now I am seeing ads from Landscape companies here on BeeSource as well as one Manscaping company.
I want to assure everyone I have not searched or intend to search for or procure the services of a Manscaping company. 

That is all,
Alex


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

I love Firefox and DuckDuckGo. Less ad bleedover


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## Cloverdale (Mar 26, 2012)

Is the wrdwide beekeeping site like Beemaster? I think I am still a member of them.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

no, Worldwide Beekeeping is a private forum run by Idee.


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

Does anybody know how to install Mozilla Firefox on a Chromebook? No cd rom device, I don't know if a flash drive can install it...suggestions?


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## Chuy (Nov 10, 2020)

kilocharlie said:


> Does anybody know how to install Mozilla Firefox on a Chromebook? No cd rom device, I don't know if a flash drive can install it...suggestions?


I sent you a message


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

I downloaded to my desk top


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## elmer_fud (Apr 21, 2018)

For those that are running firefox on windows it may be worth looking into the containers feature. I have facebook in one container, my email in another, and some other stuff in containers. It seems to have a independent set of cookies for each container because stuff that I am already logged in to on one container is not logged in within the others. I also do not get the facebook linkages for comments/other stuff when I am on news/other type sites that are using facebook for message tracking. 

I also tend to run stuff thru the browser in my phone, I don't have many apps installed because I do not want them spying on me. I turn off the internet on my phone when I am not using it and I figure that reduces data usage, reduces spying, and increases battery life.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

> Does anybody know how to install Mozilla Firefox on a Chromebook?


Here is something about it:




__





Run Firefox on ChromeOS | Firefox Help


This page explains how to install Firefox on Chromebooks and other devices running ChromeOS.




support.mozilla.org


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## Earthboy (May 16, 2007)

Michael Palmer said:


> I've had it. Now this site is advertising fentanyl. If the moderators can't clean up this mess I'm gone


One of the reasons, I have been quiet, too, among others.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

well if you look at Mike Palmers ID, he hasn't been on for 13 days, this thread is 14 days old, I think he meant it.


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## Jim_in_PA (May 17, 2016)

Earthboy said:


> One of the reasons, I have been quiet, too, among others.


Have you read through the thread and seen the actual, real explanation for the issue? It's NOT advertising. It's spammers.


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## JasonA (Aug 29, 2014)

Try a browser called Brave. I like it an it is noticeable faster.


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## blackowl (Jul 8, 2015)

Yah, try a different browser, but it's really spammers, I don't think that will do the trick.


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## Surly L (Oct 28, 2018)

Michael Palmer said:


> With that reasoning, I get the ad because I searched for fentanyl?


 Not directly maybe, but may I hazard a guess, Have you been looking for products for lets say ... aching backs, joint pain, etc...
Just sayin.


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## Cloverdale (Mar 26, 2012)

Jim_in_PA said:


> Have you read through the thread and seen the actual, real explanation for the issue? It's NOT advertising. It's spammers.


Either way, this Forum has changed, and there is no excuse, spammers or whatever; 
The changes to BS in no way benefit the users AT ALL. I think most would agree. Not everyone uses a computer, I use an iPad, so I don’t have a mouse to “hover” over a name to see a location. In the middle of typing this response a page popped up and told me to “rotate this device” (in my mind I was so aggravated with that darn pop-up I was thinking along the same line..) and had trouble getting back to this thread...life at the moment is very stressful during these times, and I don’t want any more of it. I guess I will get used to it but I really don’t enjoy it for some reason.


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## Jim_in_PA (May 17, 2016)

Cloverdale, since you mention you use a portable device to visit this forum, the Xenforo software now being used supports mobiles natively unlike the previous platform. That means you actually have access to all of the features in a consistent way with how it would would be on a Windows or Mac.

As to the other thing...the same spammer stuff is happening on forums that are still on the older VBulletin platforms. Every time a door gets closed, "those folks" find a different door to open. It's not "this forum" that's at fault. All of us that help manage forums are dealing with exactly the same challenges as the folks that fun this particular place.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Jim_in_PA said:


> It's not "this forum" that's at fault. All of us that help manage forums are dealing with exactly the same challenges as the folks that fun this particular place.


+1
Simply the "change" attracts renewed attention to ALL little details (simply ignored before the "change").

This is what we observe at the moment as people are already annoyed/stressed by the change (AND the admins/mods are still learning themselves - a temporary issue).

These same spams would have drawn NO attention had the forum stayed the same - LOL.
Also the admins/mods/automation would have probably handled the issues faster.

It is a fact.
Part of my IT life too - same old - people hate the change or people love the change - eventually everyone gets used to it.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

GregV said:


> +1
> Simply the "change" attracts renewed attention to ALL little details (simply ignored before the "change").
> 
> .........................................
> ...


I had to set up a new television this past weekend. Larger, smarter. I reviewed it for Costco and gave it a 3. Change is a major pain, causes stress and takes up time.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Heck, I hate the IT change because this makes me learn new technology over and over, and toss away what I already knew well and spent the time doing and learning.

Guess what, in IT business you learn and adapt with not end in sight.
Else - your other option is go and get a Walmart stocking job or Amazon delivery gig - no thanks!
Guess what, constant learning is a part of IT job - you get paid for doing it.
Hate it or leave it.

Funny, but anyone now days has to deal with IT - if this was not clear just yet.
I am learning Windows 10 setups and PC building as we speak - for my teen-age kid's gaming PC.
Hate it or leave it.


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## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)

More than 7 Tracker track you all the time you visit the beesource forum. 

Don't know what that is good for.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Horsehocky that all the other forum sites are having the same problems.. I also frequent a Air cooled VW site. No issues there, and the layout is much better. You can fool all of the people some of the time, fool some of the people all of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time. Try again

Crazy Roland


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Roland said:


> I also frequent a Air cooled VW site. No issues there, and the layout is much better.





Shoptalkforums.com - Index page


No doubt, I like the old format.
Who doesn't?
Question is - how long will they hold?
Unless you finance/maintain the site yourself, you have no say.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

At least they are still here, the site is still active and enough beekeepers to keep the conversation going. I'll manage. Did they ditch all the old posts in the overhaul?


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## Cloverdale (Mar 26, 2012)

Gypsi said:


> At least they are still here, the site is still active and enough beekeepers to keep the conversation going. I'll manage. Did they ditch all the old posts in the overhaul?


You can do a search for them, I believe advanced search. Use the 3 vertical dots on the upper right of the page.


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## bensbienen (Jul 31, 2020)

The old forum used phpbb? At least a few years ago that software was a nightmare, easily hackable. Basically a server control software that also included a bulletin board.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

Found the posts I was looking for, thank you Cloverdale


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

Shall we start up a new forum and make it so the end user can fine tune his / her favorite settings? I'd hate to lose contact with y'all.

I could probably set it up with a "hacker trap" and actually go find the jerks and ...well, enuf said.

We would need several key people - Barry, the super moderators, and some of the star veteran beek's. I don't think outright rebellion is necessarily a great solution, but we have something that is valuable to US, and I really don't give a rat's backside about the STEENKIN" advertisers, except to make notes of the most annoying offenders and be CERTAIN to tell all my friends to NEVER BUY FROM THEM.

Just an idea for chewing on...


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

Oh, BTW, remember to put black electrical tape over your computer's camera if you don't want the trackers to see your face.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

or use a desktop no camera. 

Actually your idea Kilocharlie is exactly what another forum did. They left a dead hulk of old posts at beekeepingforums . com and a couple of the users started a new forum back in about 2016. I got an email that sent me to the new forum. Technically I am an admin at the old one, being the only one that showed up afterward, and it gets about 2 posts or replies a week. Don't know what the advertisers are doing. I have long since quit trying to save the old forum (I have a virtual beekeeping log over there if I need to look something up - and no time to gather it all up and print it). 

the most valuable part of beesource are the old posts, the historical records of mite counts and weather stuff, the accumulated wealth of knowledge from a couple of generations (well sort of ) of beekeepers. And that is something that won't easily be moved to a new forum.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Hmmmmmmm... Now Kilocharlie, you have me thinking...

Crazy Roland


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

You're definitely one of the critical people, Roland. You're up there with MP, Oldtimer, Lauri, fusion_power, JWChesnut, Jim Lyon, and the other elite of respected folks who post VERY intelligent beekeeping advice.

I'm not trying to hijack anything, just thinking about providing a "Zero Ads / zero spyware" or at least minimal ads parallel universe. 

It may be a smart thing to try these other browsers with better controls first. I used to use Mozilla Firefox before the fire took my old laptop, and I had Eset Security on it. Eset solved all my problems except the email spammers. A really nasty in-person incident with a local pest got him off my back. I showed up at his work (well disguised, of course) and set off a stink bomb. 40 to 50 customers left. Then I went home and answered one of his spam emails with a strong suggestion that he stop emailing me, or I'd upgrade to a more concentrated stench. It worked.

One of my favorite solutions is to give an out-of-date email address when ordering on an on-line catalog that requires an email. That way all the "bargain ads" go to 1998. Oh yeah, that reminds me, I should go flush last year's spam down the drain on that account.

The start-a-new-forum idea could be a back-up plan that we get active on and prepare for - look into how much effort / hardware is involved? I can head up to visit a buddy who works for a very high-level computer organization who would spell out the big picture to me in about 30 minutes, and probably start the process right then and there on his cell phone.


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

Gypsi - thank you for the "been there, done that" anecdote. That helps keep me from getting too rambunctious and doing something foolhardy. Sounds like you'd be a huge help if it came down to actually doing it, though.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

You must be thinking of some other "Roland"., You are way too kind. 

Let's see what "Fate" has in mind, and which way the winds of change are blowing.

Crazy Roland


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

kilocharlie said:


> Gypsi - thank you for the "been there, done that" anecdote. That helps keep me from getting too rambunctious and doing something foolhardy. Sounds like you'd be a huge help if it came down to actually doing it, though.


I don't know the new software, but I have been thru it as a user on both forums involved. so I can troubleshoot some of the logistics.


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