# Table Saw



## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Well, how much do you want to spend? 

There are plenty of newer table saws available with 'direct drive' motors that are not my choice. IMO a belt drive induction motor is the best choice, but that motor hangs out the back and requires a stand (not compact).

A saw with a cast iron table of decent size, induction motor, capable of handling a 3/4" dado set, and a good (accurate) fence is ideal in my opinion.


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## My-smokepole (Apr 14, 2008)

The first ? To ask is how much space do you want to tie up.? Are. You interested in dust control or not. Do you cut full size plywood sheets or not with it. No dust control and full sheets of plywood delta contractor isn't bad. With dust control there uni saw is good. The earlier ones are better in my opinion. Earlier Power matics are good. Genrail makes a nice one. Of the newer ones on the small ones the Dewalt make a good one don't remember the model. With some dust control. Boch sp has had some problems. I would stay away from the $100.00 type saws. Now the kicker there is a new one out there call Saw stop shop size and just coming out with a smaller size saw that is looking good. The bigger ? Is how much you want to spend.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

I assume it will be a stationery saw? You don't need to move it anywhere?


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

If I purchased new I would seriously consider a Stop Saw.


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## Mike Henderson (Mar 19, 2015)

If you value your fingers, look at the SawStop or the recently announced Bosch. Both incorporate flesh sensing technology and will protect you in the case of an accident where your finger or hand gets into the blade. Additionally, both are quality saws independent of the flesh sensing technology.

They are a bit more expensive but I look at the extra cost as an insurance payment that I only have to make one time in my life. I had a fairly minor woodworking accident that put me in ER. The cost to sew me up and give me some antibiotics was $1,000. If I had cut my finger off, the cost to re-attach it would be a WHOLE lot more. And I'd have to live with the impaired finger or hand for the rest of my life.

Mike


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## mc1960 (Jul 28, 2014)

I love my Jet stationary cabinet saw with a 52" fence.


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## pom51 (Jul 28, 2008)

I have a Ridgid ts 3650 with a cast iron top and there fence is very good also and I have an older delta that has a dado blade on all the time and I don't have a lot of room but it works for me


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## Silverbackotter (Feb 23, 2013)

Get a sawstop. They are expensive but your fingers are worth it. Cheaper than a trip to the er and no guilt. I got one and love it.


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## Ted n Ms (Apr 25, 2008)

I have this one and love it.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-3-HP-240V-Cabinet-Left-Tilting-Table-Saw/G1023RL


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## JConnolly (Feb 21, 2015)

I have a Delta Unisaw. If I were to buy a new one now I would buy a SawStop. The saw you should buy has a lot to do with the kind of woodworking you do and how much you do. Whatever you do, make sure you get one with a cast iron top, and preferably with cast iron wings and a really good fence, not one of those cheap aluminum tube fences.


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

I understand the concept of a sawstop but honestly are you guys cutting wood with the blade an inch above your stock? I have a Ridgid tablesaw and have never had any problems with it. The fence isn't the greatest but after tuning it, it works great.

edit: Ridgid 4512 is what I have*


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

If space is a concern, or you would like to move it around, this saw is a good choice:

http://www.amazon.ca/Bosch-4100-09-10-Inch-Worksite-Gravity-Rise/dp/B000S5S5CW

The guard is actually well enough designed that I often use it. It will also accept an 8" dad set unlike the similar Rigid model that is only rated for a 6".

If you don't want to move it around, it is hard to beat a belt driven cabinet saw or hybrid.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

I've no personal experience, but Grizzly's new hybrid table saw (G0771) looks pretty sweet. Enclosed cabinet, cast-iron cabinet-mounted trunnions, cast iron top and extensions, riving knife, 2 hp on 120V, not-too-heavy at 286 lbs, and on-sale for $675 +$99 shipping. To do better, you would have to step up to a full-size 220V cabinet saw:

http://www.grizzly.com/catalog/2015/main/15?p=15




.


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## Dunkel (Jun 12, 2009)

I am looking at a Ridgid 4512. Since I need to work out of my basement instead of a dedicated shop, this has most of the features I need in the 5-600 hundred range. Of course when I get things narrowed down someone like shinbone posts another good choice and I am back to being indecisive again:scratch:


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## Fergus (Jan 27, 2015)

I have had several saws in the past. And there is nothing better than a granite top cabinet saw, except for the price. All of that is gone now. I bought the Ridgid 4512 and I am not a bit unhappy about it. This saw has exceeded my expectations tenfold. There is always something would change, it is my nature to reinvent the wheel, that is my issue and not the saws. I bought the saw and assembled it i a couple of hours, I wasn't in a hurry and the instructions were well written. The saw needed no adjustments, everything was spot on and square. That was better than my $3500 Jet saw. Not all saws end up being that set, but the adjustments are easy. It comes with 4 wheel casters built in so it's a piece of cake to move if you need to. I gave it the nickel test and it passed easily, very little vibration in this unit. (stand nickel on edge on cast table, turn saw on and the nickel should stay standing) I have a few Ridgid tools and I am pleased with them. 
Years ago I was a craftsman fan, but now they outsource on short term contracts so you don't know where its coming from from one year to the next and the return policy for theirs tools is far from what it used to be.

One more thing, when you buy a saw spend the extra $25 and get a zero clearance insert. It's great for making those thin cuts.

Just my two cents, good luck.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

I've been pretty impressed with Rigid battery tools. They have solid gearing and have outlasted my other Bosch, Makita, and DeWalt battery tools. If their table saw is anything like their hand tools, it should be a good contender. I've had the DeWalt DW744 for at least 12 years now using it on job sites and it just keeps going strong. Pretty incredible saw for being very portable. If you didn't need the portability, you could get a lot more saw for the same price with cast table.


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

I'm with you Barry, love my DeWalt!


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## PAHunter62 (Jan 26, 2011)

zhiv9 said:


> If space is a concern, or you would like to move it around, this saw is a good choice:
> 
> http://www.amazon.ca/Bosch-4100-09-10-Inch-Worksite-Gravity-Rise/dp/B000S5S5CW
> 
> The guard is actually well enough designed that I often use it. It will also accept an 8" dad set unlike the similar Rigid model that is only rated for a 6".


I have this saw too, then did a project to extend the out-feed and side . Works well.















These were my reference pictures, but mine turned out the same. Got the project idea from http://lumberjocks.com/


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## the doc (Mar 3, 2010)

Saws top contractor saw is a very good saw and I still have all my fingers. Intact fingers are super important for my day job! Even the most skilled woodworkers (which I am not) will likely make a mistake sometime


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

PAHunter62 said:


> I have this saw too, then did a project to extend the out-feed and side . Works well.
> 
> View attachment 16762
> View attachment 16763
> ...


Nice, I am sure that must help with larger sheet goods.


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## PAHunter62 (Jan 26, 2011)

Yep, the front leaf is great to help steady sheets of ply. I have another side table to the same height off to the left of the saw. The "surround" was well worth the time to build. I also made a wide sled for cutting my stock down to size. I've thought about adding another fold up on the out-feed.


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## JConnolly (Feb 21, 2015)

rwurster said:


> I understand the concept of a sawstop but honestly are you guys cutting wood with the blade an inch above your stock? I have a Ridgid tablesaw and have never had any problems with it. The fence isn't the greatest but after tuning it, it works great.
> 
> edit: Ridgid 4512 is what I have*


The #1 selling point for the Saw Stop isn't the blade safety features. It is the quality of the machine. Once you use a Sawsop, Unisaw, Grizzly, Powermatic, etc class of saw you'll find that the Ryobi, Craftsman, and lower end Dewalt and Ridgid saws will drive you bonkers. Your 4512 is a higher end Ridgid, and I'd recommend at least something that good. Your saw is a good example of how an extra hundred dollars gets you more than twice the saw over one of the less expensive models. I admit to being spoiled by my Unisaw but I can't recommend that kind of saw to someone who isn't going to be making furniture and cabinets and is looking for a project saw. That's why I said it depends a lot on how you will use it. 

A word on fences. A good woodworker can make due with a crappy fence, but a beginning woodworker can do good work with a great fence. If you can get a Biesenmeyer type fence then do so.


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## Fergus (Jan 27, 2015)

Jconnolly hit the nail on the head. My assumption is your looking for a decent saw at a reasonable price. When I rebuild and start shop again I will definitely go back with the high end stuff as before. Unless you are making custom furniture like I did and will again, the saws mentioned in this thread will do the job.


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## ToeOfDog (Sep 25, 2013)

First, I would like to thank each person who took the time to respond to my request. 

My previous experience was as an amateur woodworker but not a serious one. At this point I am considering upping my ability and my equipment.

Cost. I am comfortable with the Rigid 4512’s price (600.00) and would be willing to spend more if necessary. Quality does cost money but the Saw Stop price (2,000.00) gets more difficult to justify. This is the beginning of my investigation into this matter and my conclusion could change in the future.

Right this minute I do not envision cutting whole sheets of plywood. The saw does not need to be portable like a contractor’s needs. Maybe push it around the basement some. Eventually there will be a dust system.

The other complicating factor is my current residence was one necessitated by employment. Since both of us are soon to be liberated from this burden a change of scenery is being considered. A barn or workshop would be a nice addition to any future residence.<GG>

A zero clearance insert sounds nice. The current table saw has a 5/8” wide slot for the blade. Even my other table saw has a slot that is less than a ½” slot and it’s a 1948 Craftsman. 

What woodworking magazine would you recommend?


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## ABruce (Dec 27, 2013)

Just doing the math, my 1963 General is 52 this year, Its all original. It was always considered to be a decent cabinet saw. My advice buy the best quality you can afford, and don't be scared of a good used saw, they can last for generations.


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## Mike Henderson (Mar 19, 2015)

Regarding woodworking magazines, the two I like are Fine Woodworking and Popular Woodworking.

Mike


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

A zero clearance insert is very easy to make as is a dado blade insert. I made both from 1/2" plywood. I had to put some small brass tacks in the bottom of the plywood to shim the inserts to the correct height.

I don't know how many hives you intend to build or how much time you have. I want to run 20 hives and 20 nucs and I started in earnest trying to get to that quantity last year. I have VERY limited time, so anything that can speed me up is worth having. I use 3 table saws when I build my beekeeping woodenware. I come from a "tool guy" family, and my family and my parent live on the same farm, so I can combine my tools with my dads. That helps tremendously. 

If you're going to buy one, my recommendation for a table saw would be the cast iron topped Jet. Dads got the 10" Pro Shop saw. I love it. I have a Delta that I've had for 10-12 years. Not sure what model it is but it's got a larger deck than the Jet, but it's not cast iron. I do all ripping on it. I also have a small Delta direct drive saw that I bought at Lowes for less than $100 when I was putting hardwood flooring in my house. I use it to split the tops on my frames, The direct drive motor with blade scares the crap out of me.... The Jet gets used for dado blade work. I use a rabbet joint on my boxes and it stays set up to cut those and I also use it to cut hand holds in my box ends and sides before I put them together.

Tip of the day: Use car wax to polish the top of the table on your saw. It makes more difference than you could imagine and it protects the metal as well.


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## JConnolly (Feb 21, 2015)

Woodsmith shop magazine.

Zero clearance inserts. Make your own. Get a 1/2" pattern making bit for a router. Rough cut some baltic birch plywood blanks, and tape your factory insert to the blanks with double sided tape. Then follow around the insert with the pattern making bit. Viola, perfect size inserts. Finally, put big dabs of hot glue on the back of the insert where the insert support tabs are. Let the hot glue partially set up, firm but not cold, then press the insert into place. Now lift it back out and drill the mounting screw hole. Install on your saw and raise the blade to cut the slot. Make a bunch of blanks because you'll be needing ZCIs for several different dado blade setups.

I cant emphasize enough considering a Biesenmeyer type fence over the factory fence - you won't be sorry, but you will cuss yourself every time you have to futz around trying to set a cheap factory fence parallel to the blade.

No matter what fence you have, you'll want some of these clamps so you can install a sacrificial face on your fence when cutting rabbets.


If you're thinking dust collection system then be aware that most open bottom contractor saws just do not do dust collection. They are messy. Nature of the beast. I don't know if that Rigid is enclosed enough for dust collection, something for you to check out and consider. A hybrid saw is a saw that is between a contractor saw and a cabinet saw. It has a fully enclosed cabinet like a cabinet saw, but has the smaller 120V motor of a contractor saw. Unlike a contractor saw though the motor is underneath instead of hanging out the back. Its a good compromise. There was a link earlier to a Grizzly hybrid (Grizzly makes really good equipment) and Delta has a hybrid as well.

Car wax. A clean waxed top is the "bees knees." Just make sure it does not have silicone in it. Silicone will transfer to the wood and it will ruin the wood finish by making it fish-eye. I use Johnson Paste was instead - available at a Home Depot paint department.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

ToeOfDog said:


> Cost. I am comfortable with the Rigid 4512’s price (600.00) and would be willing to spend more if necessary. Quality does cost money but the Saw Stop price (2,000.00) gets more difficult to justify.


I'd be looking at a saw like this to buy, given the rest of your story.

http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/tls/4938979968.html


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## DanielD (Jul 21, 2012)

I would also recommend a higher end saw for safer work and better quality results if you have the budget and room. I like the Delta Unisaw I have too. I have had it over 20 years and does as good as it was new. It's been in commercial use for the last 7 years and going strong. I have cut with a cheap China made type saw that feels like a mad dog is chewing the wood in half by comparison. For some savings, I would suggest looking for a used older Unisaw or similar that was well kept. Well kept will make them last for many decades. You would still have a better saw than many of the low cost ones with not much more money. Good older saws like the unisaw may be getting sold to replace them with the saw stop for insurance reasons in commercial use shops. 
I also would recommend the use of a good quality fence as well. You can set a dimension and know you are right on. Good quality blades are a big plus too. I like the Forrest blades on my Unisaw. Good combination. I can cut hardwood panels for glue up right off the blade and have a clean tight joint. 

.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

My favorite saw is a Wallace, made when we where still on the gold standard, and Dorthy was still in Kansas. The second choice would be a Delta made in Milwaukee just after WWII. 

Crazy Roland


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## spammy_h (Jul 2, 2014)

I'm not sure how much room you have, but this Delta saw comes with a caster kit for only $599. I've looked at it at the store, and the fence, while not as good as the one on the Powermatic that was in the cabinet shop, looks like it's more than good enough for home shop work, thinking about making beehive wooden ware

"http://m.lowes.com/pd/DELTA-13-Amp-10-in-Table-Saw/50081568"


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## Mike Henderson (Mar 19, 2015)

If you decide not to go with a saw that has flesh sensing technology, I'd strongly recommend that you get one that has a riving knife. A riving knife rides up and down with the blade, and tilts as you tilt the blade. You can make through cuts as well as non-through cuts without removing the riving knife.

Having a riving knife (or splitter) will help quite a bit to minimize the chance of a kickback. The big advantage of a riving knife is that you never take it off. Many people who use a splitter wind up having to take it off for certain cuts and then it never gets put back on.

Essentially all new saws have riving knives today.

If you're buying a saw that you will keep for the rest of your life, get a good one with as many safety features as you can. I've heard too many professional woodworkers say something like, "I used a table saw for 40 years, but last week, I made a mistake and cut a finger off." That's why they're called "accidents". Spend a few extra dollars and save your hand.

Mike


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

My Ridgid paid for itself long ago just making hive bodies. Inserts are easy to make, I made the extended table and mounted a router in it. Probably one of the few times my $520 has paid for itself, made me money, and given me enjoyment. I was pondering putting on a Delta fence but honestly after putting time into adjusting mine I can get extremely accurate cuts with the extruded fence and a dial indicator. Pretty sure anyone else could do the same. I'm far from a professional woodworker.


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## ToeOfDog (Sep 25, 2013)

Brad bee:
Unfortunately, I am the older male in this family line<GG>. Just about anything I buy will get inherited. I already have to check my food because of my pick up truck that i inherited. Younger people have designs on it. <GG>

My problem with the insert is it is sheet metal of maybe a 1/16" thick that sits on a bed in the cast aluminum top. I need something as thin to sit on that 1/2" wide lip. 

JConnolly,

It's the current fence that started this idea or my standards have exceeded the current fence. Sears quality has been going down hill for a while. This saw is late 70's???????

My eyeglasses have very high quality lens. The problem with that is you can never go to the Walmart specials after you have experienced the really good lens.

It took me six months to buy a vehicle. I was comfortable with the 25,000.00 one but it took me 6 months to talk myself into the 40,000.00 one. 

Craig's list mainly has old sears 10".

Everybody,
This thread has been very educational. A used upper end saw would be much easier to justify. Please keep the ideas coming. 

The biggest unknown variable is where i will end up in a couple years.

Hey Roland,
Are you talking about Roosevelt's nationalizing gold in the 1930's or Nixons repudiation of Brenton Woods?


I'm off to see what a forrest blade is.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Don't be fooled, Roland isn't that old. I may be older than he!


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Ahh, but who is more _crazy_?!


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Roland!


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## ToeOfDog (Sep 25, 2013)

Barry said:


> Don't be fooled, Roland isn't that old. I may be older than he!


I figured the average beekeeper at least witnessed the Kennedy/Nixon debates.


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## jdmidwest (Jul 9, 2012)

I just read that Bosch is coming out with one soon that uses the capacitive touch system that drops the blade if it makes contact with flesh. Unlike most current systems, this one is going to be non-destructive to the motor and resets in about a minute. A double cartridge fires if the metal blade makes contact and ground with flesh like a touch screen tablet or phone. Force of firing releases the saw and forces it away from your finger before it cuts you. Hi tech safety feature, the saw will reportedly sell for around $1200.

http://gizmodo.com/flesh-detecting-table-saw-instantly-drops-the-blade-wit-1692223340

I like the portable ones, I have a Porter Cable. Works great for cutting bee stuff, and can move it around if I need it. Folds up nice and stores in the corner of the shed.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

I was referring to the 30's, when table saws also had cast iron stands, and a few had direct gear drives, tilting arbors, and a rip fence that when locked, had a knob that turned to fine tuned the setting.

Crazy (no contest) Roland


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

Roland said:


> I was referring to the 30's, when table saws also had cast iron stands, and a few had direct gear drives, tilting arbors, and a rip fence that when locked, had a knob that turned to fine tuned the setting.


We used that type of table saw when I took woodshop in high school (50 years later than Roland, in the late 80's). I miss the heavy duty planer and lathes, and even the shop teacher telling us to quit playing grabass and get back to work


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

The saw frankly doesn't matter as much as the fence. Get a Biesemeyer or a good clone of it on whatever saw you get. The only other style of fence I would consider is a Unifence, but I really prefer the Bies. I would watch Craigslist for a good cabinet style saw if you want to build furniture and such. I run an older Powermatic 66 and love it. I have also had a Unisaw and liked it. The PM66 is a bit heavier. 2 HP is about the minimum, and that is a real 2 HP, not what they advertised as developed HP. Most cabinet saws come with 3 HP or 5 HP motors. Belt drive of course. The step down from there would be an older Delta Rockwell Model 10 contractors saw with cast iron wings. Again, get the fence. My shop is filled with older cast iron machines and I wouldn't have it any other way. I'll second the Forrest blades, none better. You can add a splitter to any saw. A simple one is simply a pin inserted into the insert behind the blade an inch or so. The purpose is to keep the cut aligned with the blade to prevent binding and kickback. It needn't be complicated. Kelly Mehler's book on the Tablesaw will tell you all you need to know.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

jdmidwest said:


> I just read that Bosch is coming out with one soon that uses the capacitive touch system that drops the blade if it makes contact with flesh. Unlike most current systems, this one is going to be non-destructive to the motor and resets in about a minute. A double cartridge fires if the metal blade makes contact and ground with flesh like a touch screen tablet or phone. Force of firing releases the saw and forces it away from your finger before it cuts you. Hi tech safety feature, the saw will reportedly sell for around $1200.
> 
> http://gizmodo.com/flesh-detecting-table-saw-instantly-drops-the-blade-wit-1692223340
> 
> I like the portable ones, I have a Porter Cable. Works great for cutting bee stuff, and can move it around if I need it. Folds up nice and stores in the corner of the shed.


Nice to see the very expensive Sawstop technology will finally have competition.


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## ToeOfDog (Sep 25, 2013)

Ross said:


> Kelly Mehler's book on the Tablesaw will tell you all you need to know.


He wrote three. Which one?

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_n...keywords=Kelly+Mehler's+book+on+the+Tablesaw+


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

The Table Saw Book, any edition should be fine. Tablesaws are pretty much the same since about 1910 or so.


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## jdmidwest (Jul 9, 2012)

Ross said:


> The Table Saw Book, any edition should be fine. Tablesaws are pretty much the same since about 1910 or so.


Really? Did they have electricity in 1910? Dust collection, flesh detecting tech, plastic?

The way you use a saw has not changed much, but saws have.


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

Actually, Greenville, Tx had electricity in 1890. Before that they were run off a line shaft and a steam engine, still not much difference.

Here is an image prior to 1900 published in Harpers of New York City. Note the tangle of wires overhead.


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