# East Florida Bee keepers dead bees figured out.



## wavecrazed (Sep 21, 2011)

http://www.floridatoday.com/article...rd-caused-by-insecticide?odyssey=mod|mostview


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## NorthernIllinoisPlumber (Aug 17, 2010)

That is really horrible...what is even worse is not having them insured.


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## DixieLee (Nov 1, 2011)

Where is Suttonbeeman? He's not too far from there. Didn't he say last year that he would "take care" of anyone who invaded his territory? I was just wondering?


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## Baldursson (Nov 22, 2011)

That is absolutly horrible. sometimes people just plain suck


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## Keth Comollo (Nov 4, 2011)

Another good reason not to open feed! Poor guy!


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## VeggieGardener (Oct 4, 2011)

Keth Comollo said:


> Another good reason not to open feed! Poor guy!


Are your bees trained not to take food from strangers? This could happen to any of us whether we open feed or not. Just takes an ignorant person with a desire to kill bees for whatever reason. It does suck!


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

The early reports said that these beeks were using fipronol (Roach poison) in sub traps in the hives (this is fairly common) . It is devistating no matter the cause...but if is is.beek error it should be recognized as.such.
Deknow


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

Or, contamination of the feedstuff. 

“They’ve determined it wasn’t mosquito spraying,” said Jerry Hayes, chief apiary inspector for the Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services. “They’re looking at contamination of the feedstuff.”


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

The inference is that the beekeeper fed the poison to his own bees. The big question to ask is how did he manage to poison virtually all of them? And the bigger question is how many other beekeepers were poisoned because their bees robbed out the poisoned honey?

DarJones


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

...well,.if one made up shb traps all in one batch, and did it poorly (ie corrugated cardboard instead of plastic, sugar mixed with the Crisco/fipronol) . I'm not saying this is what happened, but early reports said they were using fipronol in the hives.....just goofing a.little.on this could.kill all.the bees.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

I don’t believe a bit of it. That many bees brought in that much poison and then every bee in the hive ate some of the poisoned syrup at the same time so that they all died the same day. 

The first news article said all killed in one day, 2300 hives from one beek and 400 from another beek who lost hive too.

Ever try to kill ants with ant poison, it can take weeks to kill them all. the problem is there are so many of them and they all have to eat the poison in order to die.

With bees foraging everywhere and having stores to feed from how could you make all the bees in a hive eat the same food that was just brought in? then multiply it by over 2700 hives. how much syrup would you need to feed to insure that every hive of 2700 get enough to kill every bee in it, plus the bees will pack most of it away for later, could you even fit that much in the back of a truck in a tote?

But its nice to know “They’ve determined it wasn’t mosquito spraying,” 

Sounds like a cover up.


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

Flower...like others I love the way u jump to conclusions when u know absolutely nothing about what happened! Maybe I'm being harsh but everyone jumps to conclusions without the facts. The syrup was fed to about 1000 colonies and when a employee found the dead hives he tried to save the hatching brood by putting on top of other colonies killing another 1000. Gotta know the facts guys! That was a big mistake! Understandable but costly. If a colony dies don't combine unless you know what killed the first one!


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

Dixielee...sorry I didn't respond earlier.I was moving bees to maple bloom. You'rtreading on thin ice..got a good attorney? If not might start looking for one. Thanks for the slander! BARRY WHERE R U? YOU SHOULD GAVE DELETED THAT POST. IM DISAPPOINTED IN YOU! NOW LETS GET THE FACTS STRAIGHT DIXIE. FIRST OFF GOING BEHIND SOMEONES BACK AND TAKING THEIR BEEYARDS IS UNETHICAL..EVEN WORSE WHEN USING MONEY GOTTEN FROM BEING A THIEF. Many beekeepers will not tolerate someone stabbing them in their back including myself. Its a good way to get your Ginny whipped. Its good to know that you support thieves Dixie. The guy who went behind my back spent a year in jail and faces charges in another county along with another state for stealing bees and bee equipment along with honey(which he also stole from me) hewas hiding he stolen hives in my former locations he took. Glad to know Dixie which side u stand for...(Lowlife thieves). 
You really need to get you're facts straight. The owner of the Bees is one of my best friends....has done me many favors. Second my bees were 200 miles away...shows what you know! Many beekeepers will kick ur butt if u take their yards. Don't believe me. Try it and see for yourself. Last I would not posioning anyone's bees..if I have a problem I will first ask you ina professional way what's going on. But if you steal from me I will not go behind your back. I'm nor that way...it would be face to face...just ask the thief..he will tell you I confronted him one on one not by backstabbing! I have ethics which I understand not everyone does. Wish we all did then no problems. Thus posining was in all likely hood done by a non beekeeper from what I've been told but Boone knows for sure. Dixie next time u better get your facts before engaging your opinion.


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

Keith comollo...no open feeding was going on.geez guys don't comment if you don't know the facts. Feeding was done inside the hives in division board feeders. They ate still toxic to the bees even after being pressure washed


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

That's the point I think everyone missed, It was a tank of feed that was poisoned. It also looks like the guy was away when it happened then either came back to use the feed or the bees died on the feed while he was gone.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

Just my $0.02
Ok, now we have a liability problem.
The secondary killing of bees, beekeeper #2 lost his investment because of the other beekeepers management down the road.


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

This kind of thing has been going on for many years in places where beekeepers are fighting over pasture. Range wars. Mostly Florida and Southern California. Poison, fires, destruction by trucks, etc. Takes a special type of person to actually do it.


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## fish_stix (May 17, 2009)

deknow; the Fipronil used in SHB traps by both these beekeepers was not the source of the poison. David Webb's syrup was poisoned while in a tote on the back of his truck; most likely deliberately. The actual poison used has not been identified yet although it appears it was a type used to kill ants and roaches and other crawling bugs. Most insecticides deteriorate rapidly, leaving only trace chemicals, so a positive ID of the source may be impossible.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

suttonbeeman said:


> Flower...like others I love the way u jump to conclusions when u know absolutely nothing about what happened! Maybe I'm being harsh but everyone jumps to conclusions without the facts. The syrup was fed to about 1000 colonies and when a employee found the dead hives he tried to save the hatching brood by putting on top of other colonies killing another 1000. Gotta know the facts guys! That was a big mistake! Understandable but costly. If a colony dies don't combine unless you know what killed the first one!


Sutton
Your right I was not there, I only know what I read in the two news articles. Which I did not believe. Which according to you I am RIGHT not to "believe a bit of it". Maybe someone who knows should contact Floridatoday.com and others and have them correct all the news articles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSGxGu-QDAE&feature=related

http://www.naturalnews.com/033781_honey_bees_pesticides.html

http://www.floridatoday.com/article...rd-caused-by-insecticide?odyssey=mod|mostview

Since you do know more about this tragic event maybe you could explain to us a few other question that were left out of the news articles. 1. Another beek lost 400 hives 1/2 miles away at the same time? 2. Was the feed corn syrup in 55gal drums? 3. How many gallons of syrup were poisoned? 4. How many gallons did they use to fill 1000 feeder and how long would it take? 5. How long would it take to move 1000 brood boxes on the top of 1000 other hives? 6. One employee did this? 7. What is the name of the insecticide used? 8. How many pounds of insecticide was mixed in the feed.


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

Not exactly sure of exact numbers but here is a general answer. Total operation is several thousand hives. There are a number of employees and about 8 or 10 were invilved some new employees. The syrup was in a tote and it was fairly full. Poor honey flow from pepper so Bees were being g fed to stimulate brood...not sure how much per hive but generally 1/2 gal. I with a helper can feed. 1000 colonies in one day if yards are. close togather using a pump. Not sure how long it would take to move that many boxes but a crew of 10 can move lots quick. Bad part is some equipment was irradiated and its still toxic. Feeders pressure washed are still toxic. I don't think anyone knows how much flripinol was used but it was many times the lethal dose. It is my understanding that investigation is ongoing and general thought is it probably was not a beekeeper but someone who didn't want beekeepers/bees in the area.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

Do they use flripinol for SHB, could they have mistakenly added it themselvs thinking it was something else?

Would a non beek know to tant the food? Who ever it was knew they would beable to poison the food suppy and how to do it, prior to purchasing the poison.

Hopfully they catch the person(s) involved.


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## fish_stix (May 17, 2009)

Fipronil used for SHB is a gel and includes an attractant. Used in miniscule amounts in Beetle traps. It's a legal treatment for SHB in Australia, but not here. Fipronil is also used on some crops and is available in liquid form as I understand, from pesticide distributors. It's a common residue found in soil in farming areas all over the U.S. If you wanted to poison a couple thousand hives just a cup or two of the liquid in a tote of syrup would do the trick.


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## DixieLee (Nov 1, 2011)

suttonbeeman, hey, I believe you misunderstood what I was trying to say. What I meant is, I noticed on your profile page that you and the bee guy who lost all the hives are friends. I just thought that from how you sounded about the guy last year that you would have been up in arms about your friend. I really am sorry about the misunderstanding. I hope your friend is able to recover from his loss. I lost my first 10 hives and was devestated. I've since learned from my mistakes and now my hives are quite healthy. (So far anyway!) Ethics are VERY important to me. And I've raised my son the same way. He knows that he has to work hard for what he wants and he also knows that I will not accept any less from him. So, again I apologize for the misunderstanding.


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## Beeshooter (Dec 21, 2011)

There are a few things I want to get straightened out. First, hobbyists and sideliners are just as important as commercial beekeepers. Suttonbeeman keeps throwing the term commercial out there like it is the begin all and end all of beekeeping. Second, as for the beeyards in north florida you are claiming were stolen from you, I was there first. You came in on a year I missed and "stole" them from me. You don't hear me ranting and raving about it. You keep calling this man a thief. He hasn't been convicted of anything. I talked to him yesterday and he told me you contacted him to help you load your bees. He helped you for 6 days. You promised him some queens for his work and never followed through. You didn't even have enough hives to fill the semi! Then you turned around and was selling 700+ nuc's. He said your hives were all different colors and mismatched. Your talk about stealing and ethics. I have 2 friends that you got queens from and have yet to pay for. Now, doesn't that fall into the stealing catagory? You make Florida beekeepers sound like a bunch of roques and thugs. In all my years as a commercial beekeeper, I have never heard anyone talk about other beekeepers like you do. You sir, are a good reason for Florida to close its borders to out of state beekeepers. You are not from Florida, and you are not a Florida beekeeper. You should show a little respect towards the state that earns you at least a couple of good paychecks each year and be thankful that we, Florida beekeepers, allow you to enter our state. So enough of the bad mouthing of Florida beekeepers. In other words, shut your hole!


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## fish_stix (May 17, 2009)

Hey Beeshooter; you have a PM.


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## Ted Kretschmann (Feb 2, 2011)

A lot of standard fireant concoctions sold at Lowes are mighty strong in Filipronil. It would not take a beehater much planning other than to dissolve the ant bait and pour the solution into somebodys bee feed. I have problems with idiots that like to vandalize beeyards by running over them with trucks. Nail boards take care of that problem nicely. TED


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

Beeshooter
Maybe you need to change your name to footshooter..seems like you are shooting yourself in your foot. Now lets set the record straight as you attempted to do with your lies or/and misinformed info. First off hobbyist are not beginning of the end. Unless you grow up in commercial operation we all start as a hobbist. I started with two hives never intending to full time. I have never bashed or talked bad about hobbyist. I may disagree with something they say or believe but I have changed my own mind on lots of things over the years from school of trial and error. In fact I teach at four bee schools for free. Hobbyist are the becoming of our future commercial 
beekeepers. Ya gotta start somewhere. The first year I put bees in those yards the land owner told me NO ONE had put bees there for 5 years. whoever had put bees there loaded bees n middle of day leaving huge clusters of bees in yards. Not the best way to keep landowner happy. So may I ask you when you put the bees there? What months? I took land owners word for it. Third. I agree you are right he has not been convicted of anything..he
pled no contest and spent a year in jail. Would law enforcement show up on your doorstep at 5 am arrest you and then you be under (I think 100k bond)? Charges are still pending in other counties and georiga as I understand it. Thousands of dollars in branded missing equipment was recovered including comb honey still in branded boxes. See article in ABJ. As I also understand it he was charged years earlier with same type activity. Hummer he helped me 6 days? Hell if I was that slow I would be broke! He helped me1 1/2 days not 6. I was referred to him as he was president of local bee club. I knew within 5 minutes of him in beeyard he didn't have hundreds of hives as he claimed. First top box he removed he sat frames bottom down in tall grass. Great way to kill a queen.


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

Continuing....
so I sold 700 Nus? Wow wish I had! Did Mr Josey tell u that? If memory serves me right I sold 6 or 7 that year. All to begging Beeks. So you figures were only off 694. Glad u know so much about my operation. In fact the most I've sold is about 1/2 the amount you claim. Shows what u know. So by posting that I have differant color hives/ sizes what are you trying to say? I stole them? Thin ice bud! Differant colors because I buy mismixed paint cheap and also prevents drifting! New boxes are dipped in copper nap and parafin at 200 degree and not painted. Differant sizes? Yep If I started all over all one size super..school of mistakes. Everyone around me used shallows for honey. So I'm still using along with mediumns and deeps. Something I hope to fix in the future! And yep we were short a few hives Being a full semi...not sure what that means other than I don't ship unless good hives . Queens don't buy many but if I do I buy from bob harvey( nice queens) Chris Werner(Indian summer) and Schwartz in California. Call them! Ask about me. So who are your friends? Maybe i forgot but no invoices in the mail so if I do I'm unaware if it! I do owe miksa for 220 cells. Here is that story. I bought cells to start and replace old queens with. They were mean as hell ans u phoned him. He said he gave me the wrong cells and had given me his Florida beetle chewing bee and there were tradeoffs for hygienic behavior. Problem was I like to work in shirt not like a mummy. So I orders 220 cells to fix that problem. They were suppose to be Ohio yellow Italians. After hatching I got grey queens so I called him back. He replied he didn't have those so he sent some he had from a queen someone had brought to him to graft from from georiga. Again not what i order ortraits I wanted. So wasted wasted money/time I purchased cells from Steph tarwater to fix the mess. I will pay him..but wanted to make a po. you don't have what I order let me know. I will say he raises good queens and is very knowledgeable.


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

Now as far as badmouthing Florida Beeks. Never have and never will. I only told what happened involving ONE beekeeper in Florida who has spent most of past two years in jail. So if you believe what he says you better quickly put your hands on your shoulders and pull downward fast before suffocating as your head is in the place you told me to shut! You my friend are about to die for lack of oxygen with your head inserted there. Here is true story about Mr josey. After helping me there was a story about him in newspaper/magazine about him moving bees to California Wisconsin and florida. It was my operation per what I told him about what I did. But the best one was about tupelo...he told me he moved hundreds of hives to tupelo by hand loading. When I replied that was hard work he replied he removed honey from brood nest and got them starving leaving no honey for them. I asked what if it rains for a few days. His reply was makesem work harder and work in rain and make more honey! Need I say more? There is enough roomfor all of us and I try not to move on top of someone....last year I put a new yard in and found out later someone had a yard across the road. I won't use that location due to courtsey. I hate thief's and liars and have no use foe either. No as for letting be be in Florida futher inform you I am a Florida resident drivers lisense and homestead. Gets your facts straight before you flap jaws. Also ask anyone in Florida who knows me knows your post was crap. I know no beekeeper in deland other than mrbell and don't know him personally. So its evident you don't know me but the fact your was so blatently false and that you bascially took up for a Lowlife tells us all we need to know. Just ask mike Thomas how much money lost in equipment and honey that was in the guys possession! Nuff said


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

Guess I should have looked at beeshooters profile before wasting my time with above post. After checking his profile he just joined this site two days ago. So with my post here where did I badmouth Florida Beeks? Guess I wasted my time but I suspect beeshooter is the person facing chargers or a close friend posing as someone else!


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

suttonbeeman said:


> Guess I wasted my time but I suspect beeshooter is the person facing chargers or a close friend posing as someone else!


Bet you are right on that one! I was thinking it myself as I read his post.


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## Ted Kretschmann (Feb 2, 2011)

Guys, what killed the bees on the east coast of Florida?? I know what I have been told in Florida. But are the bees in the area still dying?? TED


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## swarm_trapper (Jun 19, 2003)

sounds like it was fiprinil based. what ever it was it did quite a job on the bees.


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## DixieLee (Nov 1, 2011)

I read that about Sutton on Hobby Farms also! 12,000 - 15,000 hives? Hmmmmmm?


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

Never heard of hobby farms. ya think I would still be qualified as a hobbist But if I had 12,000 hives I better buy some more supers and build a bigger 
building! haha just goes to show you cant believe everything you read.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

It may also show some confusion abouit who you are and who someone else is. Not that it matters to me.

Any new developments in the case? Suspects or arrests?


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

No new developments. I do know th e concentration was many times the amount required to be lethal. I think there are people of interest and there are things that they dont want to be made public because of the investigation. personally I doubt if the person(s) will ever be charged. If they could prove and show that they bought the insceticide maybe but will be hard to prove. This could have been a beekeeper or nonbeekeeper. Looks like the some or all of the equipment may be usless as its still toxic. If anything comes forth Ill post it.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

I'm told that Jerry's comments are.in regard to this incident...is it true?
http://entnemdept.ufl.edu/honeybee/extension/Melitto_JAN_2012.pdf

Deknow


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Dean: Unfortunately this is all pretty believable. One of the real ironies of this story is the likelihood that, assuming there is a culprit and criminal motive, that persons bees may have been a victim of "friendly fire" and also may end up embroiled in an Aamitraz problem as well. I am going to stay off my soap box except to say that illegal use of chemicals puts our whole industry in danger.


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