# Success Rate of Queen Cells in Early August



## julieandwadeshelton (Oct 10, 2014)

Hello!

I have 2 hives that I consider non-productive as far as honey goes, and one of these 2 I consider weak and lagging. I would like to requeen them. I have a local source that will have grafted queen cells ready at the end of next week. I am looking for input on how successful this option is as opposed to bred queens for this time of year. Also, I would like some advice on how to make this more successful, i.e. do I need to feed? Placement of the cell in the hive? Anything you consider of value.
I appreciate your time.

-Julie


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

It will work or it won't. You can always buy mated queens from the source in a couple weeks if it doesn't work out, right?

More than anything it has to do with the amount of drones around at mating time.


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## heaflaw (Feb 26, 2007)

I'm south of you in Piedmont NC. We consider that there are drones around for mating until September. I just put queen cells into 6 splits 2 days ago. Place them near the top of a frame of sealed brood near the center of the hive. She emerges 8 days after cell is sealed and begins laying around 12 days after that. Kill the old queen at least a few hours before placing the queen cell. Feeding shouldn't make a difference unless they need it in general. The future strength of the hives will be determined half by the genetics of the queen you buy and half by the genetics of the drones within a mile or so of your hives.


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## Sunday Farmer (Nov 13, 2013)

Lawrence- when is your last graft?


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## heaflaw (Feb 26, 2007)

I hope to begin another round this week. That would have the queens mating at end of August or 1st of September. Waiting later than that may mean the queens will not be mated well and also would be getting late for them to properly build up and raise the winter bees.


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## cervus (May 8, 2016)

I don't think it's too late. Lots o'drones around still. At least here. And I'm a firm believer that local queens are superior to purchased mated queens that are usually banked and then shipped. And as JW said, if your source has QC, they will have mated queens a little bit later. Go for it.


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

I've had queens mate successfully up to September in this part of VA. I'm not seeing too many drones now in my nucs, but I haven't looked in my production hives in a couple of weeks and that's usually where I find them. Dragonflies seem to be an issue for me in early August. maybe you can set up a mating nuc with a second queen cell so in case the one in the big hive doesn't come back, you have a little insurance. And then if that doesn't work, you can always buy a mated queen.


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## LittleByLittle (Dec 8, 2015)

I'm a fair bit west of you, but same growing zone. My hives aren't producing a lot of drones right now but they still have a lot of them around, hoping for a mating flight, and I had a virgin queen fly about two weeks ago and she's looking good and started laying well for a newbee. I'd guess you're fine as long as you're not in a local dearth and short on good brood food.


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## WilliamsHoneyBees (Feb 17, 2010)

Split your hive and install multiple queen cells in each split. Double your chances or getting a mated queen. If both your splits get a mated queen back, congrats! If only one, combine them. Plant the queen cells in the middle of the brood nest where they will be well taken care of. 

-Dan Williams


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## julieandwadeshelton (Oct 10, 2014)

I will be getting my cells tonight. Thank you for the info, and I will be back to let you know how this goes. Coincidentally, as I went out to find my old queens last night, my yard was full of dragonflies. I can't tell you if I've ever seen more than one random dragonfly at my house at a time in the past. But, there were a good many birds coming in for the feast.. and after a half an hour they were either eaten or went into hiding. I hope this works out.. the line has some Minnesota Hygienic genes. My source got his Minnesota Nucs this spring, and they were his biggest honey producers this year.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Before you can confirmed your queens are mated and laying, be sure to
hold the old queen temporarily in a little nuc hive. In case none of them made it
back because of the birds, etc. you still have a backup. As the season progress toward
the winter it is harder and harder to get the mated queens. It is not always that you will get
one when many are looking for them also. My experience from last year!
So confirm your laying queens then get rid of the old one or post on CL for a free queen give away.


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## Sunday Farmer (Nov 13, 2013)

Checked some nucs I made with cells last week. 29/29 mated. Sweeeeeeet. These were late July graft for requeening other nucs and production colonies. When a cell doesn't take I just cut the e cells and combine with paper with a queen right nuc next door. Keeps me organized. I don't make a fuss over a cell not taking.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Sunday Farmer said:


> Checked some nucs I made with cells last week. 29/29 mated. Sweeeeeeet. These were late July graft for requeening other nucs and production colonies. When a cell doesn't take I just cut the e cells and combine with paper with a queen right nuc next door. Keeps me organized. I don't make a fuss over a cell not taking.


Have you ever not used paper? I've been just putting the frames with bees into their queenright neighbor. I've not done it hundreds of times, but 10s of times and there hasn't been any issue.


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## CessnaGirl (Jan 7, 2014)

jwcarlson said:


> Have you ever not used paper? I've been just putting the frames with bees into their queenright neighbor. I've not done it hundreds of times, but 10s of times and there hasn't been any issue.


Me, too. They don't seem to mind.


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## julieandwadeshelton (Oct 10, 2014)

Cells hatched a day or so ago.. fingers crossed for successful mating!


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## Sunday Farmer (Nov 13, 2013)

jwcarlson said:


> Have you ever not used paper? I've been just putting the frames with bees into their queenright neighbor. I've not done it hundreds of times, but 10s of times and there hasn't been any issue.


Yes. Especially early spring in nc. None mated queens before I need to leave. Knock a bunch right in front of another nuc and place remainder on top. Never had an issue with these single nucs doing that. But hesitant to give that as a go to on beesource cause I don't know why it works. Or if it would work all the time.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

It will work in the Spring and Autumn time.
Summer time is another story. Try it to see how many queens you can kill.
Just made up a 3 section queen castle to house 3 frames deep nuc to overwinter these summer queens.
Will not dare to do this during the summer dearth. Have to wait until after the solstice to do this.


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## Sunday Farmer (Nov 13, 2013)

beepro said:


> It will work in the Spring and Autumn time.
> Summer time is another story. Try it to see how many queens you can kill.
> Just made up a 3 section queen castle to house 3 frames deep nuc to overwinter these summer queens.
> Will not dare to do this during the summer dearth. Have to wait until after the solstice to do this.


Not sure if it absolutely not work in the summer. I knock out bees to combine and turn nucs back to back changing field bees to nucs with cells and I don't notice a problem. I just don't know why it always works as well or in every situation so I don't suggest it. Newspaper is easy to find. Heck- midsummer combine cell builders a week later with no issue doing that Palmer like method.


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## julieandwadeshelton (Oct 10, 2014)

Both hives had successful queens to hatch, mate and return. I reversed one box because she wanted to lay in the top medium, and I would like her to try to lay in the deep. The other has a fantastic laying patter.. they should be capped in a day or two. The feeding is in full force, and the goldenrod is blooming. At this point I'm a happy camper.


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## julieandwadeshelton (Oct 10, 2014)




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## DavidZ (Apr 9, 2016)

lots of drone brood and what looks like capped honey there, any new worker?


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

I was going to inquire about the drones myself, only because I found a similar thing happened in one of mine. Queen mated in early August, and I saw eggs, so left the nuc alone. Just looked Sept 3 and she's a drone layer! Luckily, I had more queen cells that were hatching from another hive, so I stuck a few of them in that hive. Didn't find the queen to dispatch her, but the virgins should hunt her down. First time that I have had that happen to me, so I don't know if it's the time of year, or just the luck of the draw. I guess I will find out with this final round that hatched between Sept 1 and Sept 6. If they all turn into drone layers, then the other drones in my area have all dried up. I have plenty running around from multiple queen lines, I just don't know about the other beekeepers in the area.


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## julieandwadeshelton (Oct 10, 2014)

dup post


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## julieandwadeshelton (Oct 10, 2014)

DavidZ said:


> lots of drone brood and what looks like capped honey there, any new worker?


Oh yes.. one has 2 frames wall to wall worker brood both sides 

The other hive I reversed the boxes to get her in the deep, but the brood in the medium box is great too.


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