# Are you ready to replace carrying heavy honey supers by hand with an electric power h



## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

borisf said:


> Why do some beekeepers choose not to use devices that make their work easier, quicker, and most importantly, safer for their health?


Mostly because they are "frugal." There is another word...….. Every dollar spent for equipment such as HL that can be performed by hand is a dollar out of their pocket. Also, it is another piece of equipment needed to hauled around in a the truck or ??? They you have to lift the Hive Lifter in and out of the truck or have ramps (that you now have buy and carry) to run the lifter into the truck...…..


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## msl (Sep 6, 2016)

> Why do some beekeepers choose not to use devices that make their work easier, quicker, and most importantly, safer for their health?


Too much of a niche market given the $1200usd price tag.
Its market would seem to be those who are big enuff to see the roi in labor savings in 2-3 years and don't have drive up access to thier hives to use a $300 truck mounted set up https://www.beeculture.com/ohhh-aching-back/ 


or a simple and cheap mono rail















They also need to have enuff hives per yard to make it worth dragging the 7o pound hive lift in and out of their pickup truck and down to the hives, but be small eunff they aren't in flatbed trailer and skid steer world, and it helps if they manage in all deeps.

For most either they are big enough to drive up and used truck mounted/towed gear, or they are small enuff its just far easier to toss some shallows/mediums around, and they will be close to 1/2 way done before they could have gotten the lift out the truck and down the trail to the hives


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## borisf (Oct 21, 2015)

I think a big role here is played by stereotypes. I was ran a commercial apiary in 2 countries and everywhere different stereotypes. Most beeks does a same like his neighbor beek. And i did a same,
as a result - back surgery and meniscus on knees.Almost all beeks after 60 complain about their backs. Heavy lifting destroyed our body. You can buy a crane or Hive Lifter ,if it broke's you can fix it, but if your back broke's you can lose all business.


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## Beetastic (Apr 12, 2011)

I just purchased an Apijuneda 2006-H crane and really like it. I am an American beekeeper. I've had many commercial beekeepers here opine that it's "slow" or "inefficient", etc. Sure, it's slower than a forklift loader, but there are benefits too. Each beekeeper should logically think what can serve them best. For me, I was tired of having hired help flake out during critical times. I wanted to be self sufficient. When purchased, I did not have nor want to spend the $50K buy-in for a hummer bee type machine. Nor did/do I want to buy the extra trailer to cart around, or the weight for that matter. 

My outyards can all handle my truck loaded with 60 colonies. My almond placements all accommodate the crane. I can pull honey with escape boards and not destroy my body. Amortized over time, the crane is a very small expense and well worth the price. And if one day I find that I require a loader, I'll look for a good deal on a used, well maintained forklift - maybe a new one - and buy it. 

Just my 2 cents


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## pleasantvalley (May 22, 2014)

borisf said:


> Nowadays, more and more beekeepers use Bee Escapes for pulling honey. This is the most efficient way to pull honey and is friendly for both bees and beekeepers.


Neither of these are the case. Young/foreign labour with fume boards (or maybe tip up) is the solution. A crane costs as much as a forklift in some cases and requires a lot more maintenance while taking up deck space on a truck and is only useable on 2 way pallets.


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## borisf (Oct 21, 2015)

Beetastic said:


> I just purchased an Apijuneda 2006-H crane and really like it.[QUOTE
> The Crane is a good solution for moving hives and pulling honey.I built my first one at 1992. It was a simple construction but i loaded pallets of 4 doubles hives on the trailer and pulled honey supers.
> View attachment 46167
> View attachment 46169
> ...


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## Beetastic (Apr 12, 2011)

pleasantvalley said:


> Neither of these are the case. Young/foreign labour with fume boards (or maybe tip up) is the solution. A crane costs as much as a forklift in some cases and requires a lot more maintenance while taking up deck space on a truck and is only useable on 2 way pallets.


Everyone runs their operation differently. I would rather use a machine than hire foreign labor that is most likely here without papers. Regarding your assertions regarding the crane, my new crane was half the price of a loader. Do you have first hand experience with cranes breaking down? I would disagree that they are a lot of maintenance. Much less so than a loader with many more moving parts, a diesel engine, tranny, wheels, etc in my opinion. 

These arguments are like saying "blue is the best color." Loaders are great. Cranes are great. Hired help and fume boards are great. For me, I like my crane. It works great. And when and if my business grows that i require a loader, I'll get one. Then I'll be able to pull honey with my crane and move 600 colonies with my loader into almonds. I placed 100 colonies last week in one day. Wasn't that bad.


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## pleasantvalley (May 22, 2014)

The original question was why NA commercial beekeepers don't use cranes or other 40 year old tools, I was offering an answer. Of course everyone runs their operation differently, including sideliners such as yourself. Your point on hiring illegal immigrants is a red herring.


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## Beetastic (Apr 12, 2011)

Ooooh, somebody went to debate class! Also love the subtle (or not) passive aggressive "40 year old tool" idea. 

Per the immigrant labor… it's actually a real issue here. I don't know if you have 100 hispanic laborers in your Home Depot parking lot every day, but we do.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

borisf said:


> Why do some beekeepers choose not to use devices that make their work easier, quicker, and most importantly, safer for their health?


Mexicans


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## pleasantvalley (May 22, 2014)

Beetastic said:


> Per the immigrant labor… it's actually a real issue here. I don't know if you have 100 hispanic laborers in your Home Depot parking lot every day, but we do.


Are you somehow forced to hire them??? Arguing over a machine vs. properly hiring staff is pointless. If they don't show up as expected or work as trained, that's a failure of the business owner.

Back to the original question. It seems like the OP is wondering why his device is not selling in the NA market. A crew of guys and a forklift are more efficient for large scale beekeepers. I can see how this unit would be useful for a sideliner or hobbyist. I wonder how long that battery lasts?


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

Beetastic said:


> Ooooh, somebody went to debate class! Also love the subtle (or not) passive aggressive "40 year old tool" idea.
> 
> Per the immigrant labor… it's actually a real issue here. I don't know if you have 100 hispanic laborers in your Home Depot parking lot every day, but we do.


I do the same, I use a crane and it's hand cranked to boot! Move what I have to by myself.
Yup, about the labor force here too. 
I don't believe for one NY second that any of it is the fault of the business owner if laborers-legal or otherwise- fail to show or perform poorly.


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## pleasantvalley (May 22, 2014)

clyderoad said:


> I don't believe for one NY second that any of it is the fault of the business owner if laborers-legal or otherwise- fail to show or perform poorly.


Well, there's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again. Do you, NYer or otherwise, actually retain employees who perpetually don't show up or aren't up to the task?


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

pleasantvalley said:


> Well, there's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again. Do you, NYer or otherwise, actually retain employees who perpetually don't show up or aren't up to the task?


Do you actually have to ask that question?


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## borisf (Oct 21, 2015)

[QUOT I wonder how long that battery lasts?[/QUOTE]
The battery run's no stop all season without charging from charger ,because H.Lifter has small solar panel and battery recharging continuously . I do sell them , but not enough. Actually i shipped one unit to Alberta just a few weeks ago. Everyone who's tried one's told me that "i am very pleased with my device, so useful and handy''


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

I really liked that gadget that helped separate the boxes.......... neat!


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## borisf (Oct 21, 2015)

snl said:


> I really liked that gadget that helped separate the boxes.......... neat!


Thanks for the compliment.It is a good tool for dividing 2 boxes. It's necessary when we use a plastic queen excluder , because bees glue it with wax and hard to open it. The breaker only works with supers 
that have handles with straight cut, not ''half moon.''


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## RAK (May 2, 2010)

Migrant workers are a lot more efficient than a crane or lift. Pulling honey is a small part of beekeeping for us. Splitting, treating, feeding, is a lot more labour intensive.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

borisf said:


> Your point of view is important.
> 
> Today, almost all agricultural work is mechanized, and manual labor is replaced by machines in other industries, except for the beekeeping industry.
> We have efficient extractors, uncappers and pumps for extracting honey. We have forklifts, bobcats and cranes for loading beehives and supers. But, the hardest work is pulling honey and carrying heavy supers which many of us are doing by hands. As a result, productivity decreases and beekeepers experience back pain and injured knees and shoulders.
> ...


I agree with the first sentence and after that a lot of assumptions are being made. Bee escapes are good for many beekeepers IF their hives are close to their honey house for the second trip required, IF your crop is large and IF your equipment is good and robbing isnt anticipated to be a big problem. 
Cost isnt the issue here, as most commercials have already made a large investment in a forklift or 2 or more. We space our bee pallets strategically in the yard so we can place a custom honey pallet directly between the pallets on the ground and set all our boxes down onto the pallet which is ideally just a step or 2 away, then use a forklift to load the pallet (42 mediums or 30 deeps) directly on the truck. A typical day for us is for 2 men to pull 12 such pallets which usually takes 4 to 5 hours. Adding in morning prep work, driving time (many locations are nearly an hour away) and unloading time and it usually shoots the heck out of a day. 
Hard work? Yes but imminently doable for those with any degree of fitness. We have actually experimented with the bee escape system and found it difficult to fashion a way to stack 6 in a block and advantageous only in certain scenarios and it was always unpopular with the person running the uncapper who was then expected to break the boxes apart at line speed in the extracting room. Given that this person was already having to lift over every box by hand, making his work more difficult was a deal breaker when those boxes are more easily broken apart in the bee yard where the box could be tipped back as it was pried loose.


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## borisf (Oct 21, 2015)

RAK said:


> Migrant workers are a lot more efficient than a crane or lift. Pulling honey is a small part of beekeeping for us. Splitting, treating, feeding, is a lot more labour intensive.


I agree, you need workers if you run more then 1000 hives. What about thous who is keep 200, 500 or 800 hives and can't afford foreign workers. Do not forget salary for two workers for 6 months cost like good 
Bee crane. Plus you need to pay flight tickets,taxes and provide decent housing.
Even with 1000 hives i did all beekeeping task by myself because i used devises and machinery . I am hiring student for a temporary job. If the beeks are using old grandpa technology for servicing the bees
then you need more workers to hire for sure.


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## RAK (May 2, 2010)

Boris, im sure the lifts have their place in smaller operations but i dont see how we can ever replace the speed of humans.


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## Woodside (Aug 10, 2010)

bee industry is pretty behind in terms of development and technological innovation. Crane for pulling honey is interesting and works for some. I feel pulling honey is hard work but not body destroying. Routine hive inspections are harder on the back than pulling honey is. Honey gets stripped fast and bees get treated asap and anything that compromises speed in this, directly effects winter losses. Time in the fall can mean 50% vs 10% loss. Of course if mites are at .5% going into honey you have more time then if they are at 2%, but not as much time as if they are at 4%


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## borisf (Oct 21, 2015)

RAK said:


> Boris, im sure the lifts have their place in smaller operations but i dont see how we can ever replace the speed of humans.


The H/L was developed to assists beekeepers lifting heavy suppers efficiently and avoid unnecessary back pain.Here is a big question which way faster , blow bees and carry one by one boxes by hand instead of placing bee escapes and grabbing 3-4 supers and rolling them or taking by crane.
Today no one wants to do back to 40 s or 60 s when beeks were extracting honey with hand crank extractors and scratched frames with forks.
Every beekeeper knows that full honey box weighs about 27 -32 kg. this weight is more than official recommendations (regulations ) for lifting and carrying weight.(,which is 22 kg.) Please read this document. 
https://www.whsc.on.ca/Files/Resour...nual-Material-Lifting-WHSC-Resource-Line.aspx


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

borisf said:


> The H/L was developed to assists beekeepers lifting heavy suppers efficiently and avoid unnecessary back pain.Here is a big question which way faster , blow bees and carry one by one boxes by hand instead of placing bee escapes and grabbing 3-4 supers and rolling them or taking by crane.
> Today no one wants to do back to 40 s or 60 s when beeks were extracting honey with hand crank extractors and scratched frames with forks.
> https://www.whsc.on.ca/Files/Resour...nual-Material-Lifting-WHSC-Resource-Line.aspx


Actually lifting one by one is way faster than making a second trip back to a bee yard and what if you are only taking off 1 or 2 boxes per hive?. Using a light sprinkle of bee go on a blow box is incredibly efficient, 2 men can easily pull 100 mediums off of a yard in an hour. Most all commercials have invested in auto load extracting systems and the honey house has become a far more efficient place than it was a few decades ago, but those same commercials aren't using the system you suggest to pull honey. Are you suggesting the same beekeepers who have modernized their extracting rooms and use forklifts for pulling honey, stacking boxes and moving bees are now guilty of group ignorance about how to most efficiently pull honey? Commercials have some incredibly bright and innovative thinkers that have made lots of improvements but more mechanization isn't always the answer.


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## borisf (Oct 21, 2015)

jim lyon said:


> Actually lifting one by one is way faster than making a second trip back to a bee yard and what if you are only taking off 1 or 2 boxes per hive?. Using a light sprinkle of bee go on a blow box is incredibly efficient, 2 men can easily pull 100 mediums off of a yard in an hour. Most all commercials have invested in auto load extracting systems and the honey house has become a far more efficient place than it was a few decades ago, but those same commercials aren't using the system you suggest to pull honey. Are you suggesting the same beekeepers who have modernized their extracting rooms and use forklifts for pulling honey, stacking boxes and moving bees are now guilty of group ignorance about how to most efficiently pull honey? Commercials have some incredibly bright and innovative thinkers that have made lots of improvements but more mechanization isn't always the answer.


You are right. medium boxes much lighter then deeper's ones . In Canada only a few beeks using the medium's because the honey flow very intensive and you need add every 3 days a new deep super. Recently i developed method for ''one trip''pulling honey with bee escapes.It work's just perfectly. However, everyone does their own way.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

borisf said:


> You are right. medium boxes much lighter then deeper's ones . In Canada only a few beeks using the medium's because the honey flow very intensive and you need add every 3 days a new deep super. Recently i developed method for ''one trip''pulling honey with bee escapes.It work's just perfectly. However, everyone does their own way.


We use some deeps for honey, they are certainly more efficient to extract. However, we have always preferred mediums for honey partly because it dosent require someone as strong to handle them but also because it allows a little more flexibility and efficiency when supering as we can put on 1, 2 or sometimes 3 supers at a time if the conditions look promising. But, of course, that is an efficiency trade off. Fewer boxes and frames to handle when pulling and extracting but at the cost of having to lift boxes that can easily weigh 80 lbs as opposed to 40 to 50.


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

Deeps are so much easier and quicker. A little Beego on a fume board and they are out. forklift loading and moving. Loading the extractor is quicker and each spin out come 20 gallons of honey. But with out hydrophilics then Westerns might be the way to go. But, on the larger scale westerns is way to many boxes to wrangle.


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## cbay (Mar 27, 2017)

Boris, your video speaks for itself. Well done.

If others have differing ways and opinions then good for them, but your product certainly has it's place.


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## D.Chep (Mar 1, 2019)

There is a company in the US who makes the beehive lift. It's not so expensive compared with European products and you don't need to buy it outside of the US. https://beehivelifters.com


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