# Overwintered a queenless hive - now what?



## Bucksnort (Feb 6, 2011)

2nd year bee keeper. Overwintered 3 hives in my backyard. On the 1st inspection of the year a few weeks ago, 2 hives were strong with lots of bees, little honey, some brood. I gave them pollen patty and sugar water. 3rd hive had spotting on the outside so I saved that inspection for last so not to pass disease on with my hive tool (cleaned the tool with alcohol afterwards). Lots of spotting inside the hive, dead bees inside, lots of stored honey (compared to the other 2) lots of live drones and some workers present, no uncapped brood but a few (less than 10) capped drone cells.

Fall treatment included formic acid pad and fumigilim B in all 3 hives.

I assume my queen died sometime between that last inspection in fall and this spring and I have a virgin queen or laying worker in there all winter. So, what should I do with that hive?

I thought of dumping the bees in the evening and letting them freeze but it was suggested to me to let the hive live on to at least work on cleaning the inside of the hive up until they all expire from old age.

Suggestions?

I do not plan on buying a package of bees. I would rather use that hive for a caught swarm, split, or try to save it.

Should I add frames of capped brood and nurse bees from my other hives and eventually a frame with eggs and let them build a queen or just let this hive expire? My guess is there is about 1 lb of bees in there so wondering if its even worth saving. Also, right now we have willows, aspen, some maples, crocus, few dafodils blooming, lawns are just beginning to green up - so you know what time of the year I'm in. Highs in the upper 40s-low 50s for the next week. I have seen bees coming/going from this hive so their are a few workers out collecting pollen on warm days.

Can I/should I take frames of capped honey from this hive and give it to my other hives or is the spotting on the frames a concern with spreading disease if any? I'm thinking they may rob it anyway.

What should I do with this hive?


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## infofly (May 9, 2008)

This is what I would do -- combine, and split after the spring flow.

If you don’t have a new queen right now, combine both hives, and split at later time. 
I was in the same situation last year, one hive came out queenless after winter. My mistake was that I have tried to save them no matter what – gave them frames of eggs and brood from other hive. This went on for more than month, but they failed to make a new queen. Long story short -- I lost that hive, and severely weakened the other hive by pulling frames of brood during most critical time in the spring. Good luck, hope this helps.


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## Bucksnort (Feb 6, 2011)

If I combine, I'd be introducing a drone laying worker or unferilized queen into a hive that is queenright. I must have someone laying drones in that failing hive otherwise I would not have so many drones and no worker brood.

What about the dysentery in the hive, is that a concern to be combining it with an apparently healthy hive?


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## fish_stix (May 17, 2009)

Your best bet at this point would be to give them a frame of eggs from one of the other hives and see what they do. If they start queen cells you're good to go. If not, give them another frame each week until they do start cells. If it's laying workers don't combine them with a good hive, they usually kill the good queen in favor of keeping the LWs. Not very smart of them but we're dealing with bugs here!


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

It's hard to imagine that one pound of stressed diseased - probably aging - bees would produce much of a queen. If you could get a cell to give them that might work, although it might not if you really have a laying worker. 

If it wasn't for the (possible) nosema I think I would shake them out and remove the hive so that they would have to drift to the others in the yard. But it probably isn't worth taking the chance of spreading that around. 

I probably wouldn't want to do it anymore than you, but the smartest thing might be to put some sulfur in your smoker and give them the last rites. Then treat the equipment for nosema.

BTW, giving them brood and nurse bees every week like fishstix said would almost surely work, but it just doesn't seem like it would be worth it to save a bowl full of diseased bees.


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## infofly (May 9, 2008)

Let's assume that you have a queenless hive with LW. You could try to give them frame of eggs - but this is not a quick fix, it will take few weeks for them to attempt to rear the queen. I would combine, but keep the queenless hive over the double screen board on the top of the good hive. The board is easy to make. Give them couple of weeks, if you don't see eggs anymore in the queenless hive, then remove the double screen board. Later, you can get a good new queen and split or make a nuc - depending on the numbers in the hive. After the spring flow/buildup you can add frames to the nuc before the main flow. With little luck and good weather, you can have two hives by the time for the main flow. 
If you have a drone laying queen -- you have to find her and remove from the hive.


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## Bucksnort (Feb 6, 2011)

I decided this hive was not worth saving. A new #3 package of bees expected to arrive from GA next week so with snow on the ground and freezing temperatures today, I opened this hive and shook the bees out into the snow. There was 3 frames with bees on it in about a circle the size of my hand. There was larvae and capped brood -drone only. I immediately saw a queen. My guess is she ran out of sperm (got her in a package last spring) or she was a virgin queen that the bees raised in an emergency last fall and too late in the year to get bred. 

Anyway, a $75 package of bees will be less trouble than trying to save the sorry lot that is crawling in the snow right now. Plus putting that new package on drawn comb and having some honey on hand will build that hive up a lot faster than adding frames of brood and trying to save the old bees. It was kinda tough to kill them but it made the most sense.


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