# How many board feet in a Hive?...before I go to Lowe's



## AthensM50 (Jun 7, 2015)

ok guys....I am wanting to build my own boxes and frames....and have some plans...but wanted to know if anyone has come up with the correct measurements to go store and (for example) a say 1x 12 pine 17' is enough wood to make a box and 10 frames????

Anyone have a clue when I go to Lowe's how much wood I need to get to make everything?

I have enough scrap plywood to make bottom and top....

Thanks for any input!!!!!

Athens


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## Kamon A. Reynolds (Apr 15, 2012)

A 1x12x17 will make 2 deep boxes, exterior handles and another partial box. Frames I don't fool with.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

>> if anyone has come up with the correct measurements to go store and (for example) a say 1x 12 pine 17' is enough wood to make a box and 10 frames?


While it is _possible _to make frames completely from 1x wood, its not the most efficient way. By using 2x6 wood for the frame endbars and planing or jointing it down to 1.375" (the width of an endbar) and doing all the other cuts while the wood is still a block, you can shape multiple endbars with each operation. Once all the other cuts are made, slice the block apart into individual endbars with a bandsaw or tablesaw.

More on some of these techniques in this earlier thread:
http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...&p=885669&highlight=frames+bandsaw#post885669


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## GGTilton (Dec 6, 2014)

White board as Lowes calls it is available in the following lengths 12ft 14ft 16ft. Not 17 ft. Also you will probably find that the cost of the lumber from Lowes will be as much as precut hive bodies from a bee supply company. Now, when you go to Lowes ask about their "cull" lumber. If they have any, you can usually buy it for 25% to 50% of full price.


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

If I didn't have pine trees, sawmill and all the other tools, I wouldn't build my hives. Frames, I still purchase.
I built some frames once for fun, once.

Alex


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## AthensM50 (Jun 7, 2015)

I do know that they do not sell lumber in 17' sticks....it was an example....I was looking for just the number of Board feet that it would take to make a box.


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

You can make 2 hive bodies or supers from a 12 foot board. If you buy lumber at Lowes to build a box with, you'd be just as cheap to buy the box as long as you order enough to get free shipping from the places that offer that.

I buy deeps, but make medium supers. I don't buy any lumber for my supers at Lowe's. I buy it from a local lumber store. It's better quality and cheaper. 

My first year, I spent about 2 hours cutting out pieces to build 20 frames. There is no way I'd make a frame from scratch. They're about 80 cents each when buying 100 at a time.

EDIT: Southern Yellow Pine makes better boxes than the whiteboard, or spruce.


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

Lumber from Lowes and Hdepot are much higher than at a regular lumberyard.I should of gotten all the lumber for boxes before my brother shut his lumberyard down.


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## jbraun (Nov 13, 2013)

I prefer to use 10" lengths, little waste on that length. I use 16 1/4" for the short side and 19 1/8" for the long side. I cut a rabbet on the short ends at 3/8" deep x 3/4" wide. Then a dato on the top edge 3/8" deep x 5/8" for the frame rest. I know you didn't ask for that but thought I'd save you some time. That gives you an assembled box 19 7/8" x 16 1/4".

My notes say that 2- 10' lengths give me 6-long pieces. 1-10' piece gives me 7 short pieces. I usually do them in batches of 10 now and I find that 7-10' boards yield 10 boxes. The math doesn't seem to work out quite right so I don't do all one length from a board. Keep your extras for next time.

I have to agree with Brad about Lowes. The local lumber store is cheaper by about 15-25%. 

I don't makes frames. Not worth your time.

You may find in the south that your pine is cheaper than here in Missouri. We have all hardwoods around us.

Good Luck on your build.


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

I buy 1x12x12' white pine from the local lumber for $16 each and get two boxes from each with an inch or so left over to through away.Thats $8 a box.The cheapest boxes I have seen were in bulk at about $12. A $4 a box savings on my building boxes and I Just got through building 12 boxes 2 weeks ago.Thats almost a $50 savings.I have built frames before but its timely.I would much rather buy them.


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## AndrewoftheEast (Mar 29, 2015)

I agree, do NOT make frames if you can bear that. I was foolish enough however.
I chose all medium stuff and think you should too. Besides less danger and less physical agony in your beekeeping, the narrow wood for mediums is cheaper.
I used 2x8 (cuts to 6.5") on the ends with the frame-rests, and what-have-you thinner stuff on the sides, no box joints - yay - and used up everything that was about 7x24 or bigger in my scraps, also found an amazing deal at Home Depot for 2' 1x7 cutoffs.
8 frame? 10 frame? All 1x material? Deeps and shallows, or all mediums? Lotta variables you'll decide on.
Do yourself favors up front, tho, no matter how you make it work:
All mediums and no frame making. That's what the more experienced guys are saying.


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## BeeMoose (Oct 19, 2013)

I'll echo what has been said here, unless you have a reasonable source for lumber, it will cost you more to make deeps and frames buying lumber at Lowes.

I build all of my equipment except for deeps and frames. I cannot buy the clear wood that I get in my boxes now for cheaper than I would buy the lumber at Lowes.

Frames being $1.50 locally, it is not worth my time to try and make all those intricate cuts.

I think your assessment of board feet is close. I know it takes 72 1/2" of 12" wide lumber to build just the hive body. This will leave you with approximately a 1 3/4" board after you cut the box size
down to 9 5/8" for your deeps.

Good luck.


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## jbraun (Nov 13, 2013)

I'd like to add one more thing to you about your projects. I like to use the off cuts from the 12" rips for your deeps to make the inner cover. I do the length cuts on my cross cut saw first then make my rip cuts. This leaves you about 1 1/4" cut at the perfect size for inner covers. I then do a 1/4" dado at 3/8". This leaves the other side deeper which is useful when you add sugar bricks in the winter. I use 1/4" plywood glued into the cover with 2- 1 1/4" holes drilled side by side for ventilation. 

Since you are in prime SHB country you might also want to use Rusty's plans for making screened bottom boards. He has a link to his web site that give you step by step directions for a great bottom board that helps with small hive beetle control. Bees won't use frames after they get slimed by SHB.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

AHudd said:


> If I didn't have pine trees, sawmill and all the other tools, I wouldn't build my hives. Frames, I still purchase.
> I built some frames once for fun, once.
> 
> Alex


How fun was it?   

I priced the wood to make boxes and I simply cannot come close to what I can get the cheapest bodies from Mann Lake for. It's not worth the hassle in my opinion. I don't have a problem with their quality, even the cheapest ones seem great to me. Plus no tax and they ship for free (and quickly). The number of hours I'd have into a box with my tools and expertise far outweighs any savings (and there would be done if I purchased the lumber).


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

jwcarlson said:


> How fun was it?
> 
> I priced the wood to make boxes and I simply cannot come close to what I can get the cheapest bodies from Mann Lake for. It's not worth the hassle in my opinion. I don't have a problem with their quality, even the cheapest ones seem great to me. Plus no tax and they ship for free (and quickly). The number of hours I'd have into a box with my tools and expertise far outweighs any savings (and there would be done if I purchased the lumber).


Where are you guys pricing wood at? You need to go to a regular lumberyard not Lowes and Hdepot.I can get 1x12x12' white pine for $16 even!!!! Thats two deep boxes for $8.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

snapper1d said:


> Where are you guys pricing wood at? You need to go to a regular lumberyard not Lowes and Hdepot.I can get 1x12x12' white pine for $16 even!!!! Thats two deep boxes for $8.


I'm not sure exactly what the local lumber yards charge, the only one nearby charges more than our Home Depot. HD has 1x12x12s for about $22.50 w/ tax included. Even at $16 or $8 each. I can get boxes from ML for $12. How much time do you have into producing that box? Personally I value my time at much greater than $2-4/hour. I'll have to check our lumberyard again, there are others around, but they are much farther from home. My brother went to one to buy some boards for a project he was doing awhile back and walked out and drove to HD because of how much more expensive their wood was.

One of the draw backs of HD is that you're going to be looking through the piles for awhile before you find one that is straight and not warped too bad.


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

Mann Lake KD-602 Budget deep boxes $64.75 for 5 box package and you would have to by two if you wanted to get the free shipping and thats $12.95 a box.I get my 1x12x12' at Ken's Lumber in Eldorado for $16.By the time I have cut out 24 boxes I have saved right at $100 and it doesnt take long.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

snapper1d said:


> Mann Lake KD-602 Budget deep boxes $64.75 for 5 box package and you would have to by two if you wanted to get the free shipping and thats $12.95 a box.I get my 1x12x12' at Ken's Lumber in Eldorado for $16.By the time I have cut out 24 boxes I have saved right at $100 and it doesnt take long.



Just curious... how long for a box? Roughly. Ten minutes? An hour? Somewhere in between? What kind of joints?

$4 a box isn't squat for me because I bet I'd spend an hour a box... just estimating. Frames are where you can "make some money". Buying for about 80c/ea unassembled compared to a couple bucks (if I recall correctly) or so for assembled. Do you cut your own frames too? Assembling ten frames I can save $20 assembling my own frames vs. buying. If I were to use foundation that'd cut that down to about $10 or so for 10 frames. I cannot even imagine cutting frames. That's a net loss, it has to be.


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

If you enter all your dimensions into this site, it will generate a cut list and the best way to cut it. Its not perfect but does a good job.

http://jonathan.overholt.org/projects/cutlist


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

jwcarlson said:


> How fun was it?
> 
> I priced the wood to make boxes and I simply cannot come close to what I can get the cheapest bodies from Mann Lake for. It's not worth the hassle in my opinion. I don't have a problem with their quality, even the cheapest ones seem great to me. Plus no tax and they ship for free (and quickly). The number of hours I'd have into a box with my tools and expertise far outweighs any savings (and there would be done if I purchased the lumber).


That's why I only built frames once. If a person had three routers and tables, so you could set them up and leave them, would be a big help. But, that would require more room and higher investment.
I cut my lumber one inch thick for boxes. I then plane it down to get the added benefit of nesting material for my chickens and bedding for the chicks we raise.
As my Grandpa used to say, "a penny saved is a penny earned." Now we say, "a dollar saved is a dollar earned."
I value my time, mostly, by where and with whom I get to spend it. I used to have a job that took me to large cities all across the country. I would rather work on my place saving money than out in the city making money.
My values have changed as I have aged. Weeks go by sometimes without seeing people, fortunately my wife and I get along well. 

Alex


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

AHudd said:


> That's why I only built frames once. If a person had three routers and tables, so you could set them up and leave them, would be a big help. But, that would require more room and higher investment.
> I cut my lumber one inch thick for boxes. I then plane it down to get the added benefit of nesting material for my chickens and bedding for the chicks we raise.
> As my Grandpa used to say, "a penny saved is a penny earned." Now we say, "a dollar saved is a dollar earned."
> I value my time, mostly, by where and with whom I get to spend it. I used to have a job that took me to large cities all across the country. I would rather work on my place saving money than out in the city making money.
> ...


I'm with you. Lets say it takes me about an hour a box (my guess for my skill level and tools). If I'm making 24 boxes that's 24 hours I could be with my wife and kids instead of further spending time with the bees. Time which I'm sure my wife already thinks is too much.  I can get by saying... "Hey, I need to slap a coat of paint on these ten boxes really quick." much easier than saying "Hey, I need to spend Saturday in the garage cutting these ten boxes."

Trade offs and compromises. She doesn't complain about my bee stuff too much so I try to be efficient with the time I take to do bee stuff.


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

jwcarlson said:


> Just curious... how long for a box? Roughly. Ten minutes? An hour? Somewhere in between? What kind of joints?
> 
> $4 a box isn't squat for me because I bet I'd spend an hour a box... just estimating. Frames are where you can "make some money". Buying for about 80c/ea unassembled compared to a couple bucks (if I recall correctly) or so for assembled. Do you cut your own frames too? Assembling ten frames I can save $20 assembling my own frames vs. buying. If I were to use foundation that'd cut that down to about $10 or so for 10 frames. I cannot even imagine cutting frames. That's a net loss, it has to be.


I take the 1x12x12' and cut the full length to 9 5/8" which would only take a couple minutes for marking and cutting.Then mark the lengths which only a couple minutes.The cut off with a skill saw,wack,wack wack a couple minutes.Then do the rabbet for the sides.Line up the saw to make the cut and depth a couple minutes.Then it just push through the saw one right after the other.Not long at all.Then set it for the top rabbit or frame rest and keep the same depth.Push all through through one right after the other.Then set up the saw to cut out the side pieces of the rabbet and push them all through one right after the other and then the top for the frame rest.Do it like an assembly line just one job at the time and it goes fast.Half a day for 24 boxes easy.


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## rookie2531 (Jul 28, 2014)

With the stop blocks and fences setup, 24 boxes can be made in one afternoon.

It takes me alot longer to paint 24 boxes than to build. But maybe, because i do 5 coats. 3 prime, 2 semi.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

rookie2531 said:


> With the stop blocks and fences setup, 24 boxes can be made in one afternoon.
> 
> It takes me alot longer to paint 24 boxes than to build. But maybe, because i do 5 coats. 3 prime, 2 semi.


Painting certainly isn't trivial. But it's more drying time than actual touch time. I lay a 1x8 across a saw horse and thread my boxes onto it. Can get about 6 of them on an 8 footer comfortably. Then get my paint bucket and roller... paint one side, rotate the box, paint the next, repeat until done. I do one prime coat two top coats. I'd think five coats would be overkill, but if it's working for ya great. I do cut/assemble/paint my own Coates Nuc boxes. I need to get on making some supers for those actually. I can get HD to cut them to size while I'm there on their big saw then I just cut to desired depth on my table saw. Makes it pretty efficient.


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## flyin-lowe (May 15, 2014)

If you live in a lager city shop around in the outskirts. I can go 30 miles and save almost 50% from one Mendards store to another. Lumber is very regional and the stores no that. If you aren't willing to buy quite a bit it might not be worth the savings. But for example my local Menards store sells 36 inch cut off pieces of 1x12 for $1.49 each. Two of those builds a deep. Yesterday they were out of those and had 4 foot pieces for $4.99. If I go the other direction to the larger city the same piece is $7.99. I use 8 frame equipment and 3', 6', and 12' lengths seem to have the least amount of waste. I rip my 1x12's down and use the pieces left over for the sides of my bottom boards and for the sides of my top covers, also rip them down further for inner covers.


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## Ian G (Jul 29, 2014)

Depends on how many boxes you plan to build. A single 8ft piece will be enough to make 1 10fr box and you'll have a little over 24 inches of scrap if using rabbet joints. If you plan on making more than 1 box the cost vs cut efficiency changes

I made ~475 10 frame mediums last year using 1x8's. I found that the most cost effective and efficient length for me was 10ft boards. I was using rabbet joints, not finger joints. I could get 7 end boards or 6 side boards out of (1) 10ft board, with about 4-6inches of scrap per board. So 13 boards would make 21 mediums. At $7.47 per board that comes out to $4.62 per medium, excluding glue and nails. Once I got above a 10ft length the cost per linear ft got higher, below 10ft there was too much scrap. I've got a convoluted spreadsheet if your interested.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Ian G said:


> Depends on how many boxes you plan to build. A single 8ft piece will be enough to make 1 10fr box and you'll have a little over 24 inches of scrap if using rabbet joints. If you plan on making more than 1 box the cost vs cut efficiency changes
> 
> I made ~475 10 frame mediums last year using 1x8's. I found that the most cost effective and efficient length for me was 10ft boards. I was using rabbet joints, not finger joints. I could get 7 end boards or 6 side boards out of (1) 10ft board, with about 4-6inches of scrap per board. So 13 boards would make 21 mediums. At $7.47 per board that comes out to $4.62 per medium, excluding glue and nails. Once I got above a 10ft length the cost per linear ft got higher, below 10ft there was too much scrap. I've got a convoluted spreadsheet if your interested.


Making mediums, because of the width, is a much better numbers game, I think. The jump in lumber width starts getting pretty big price difference. Like stated above, it's very regional. People talk about getting 2x lumber for much cheaper than 1x. Which is insane to me, but it must make since where they're at.


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

Just a minor point, but when you order your lumber, don't order by board feet. Order by linear feet of the dimensions you need.

Board feet is a specialized unit of measurement for determining the volume of a log or a quantity of sawn lumber. If you are buying carloads of lumber from a wholesaler, board feet may be appropriate.

Wayne


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## j.kuder (Dec 5, 2010)

a board ft. is 1in. by 12in by 12in so there is 8 board ft in a 1 x 12 x 8 ft long. 16 board ft. in a 2 x 12 x 8 ft long. a 1 x 10 is actually about 9 1/2 in. wide and a 1 x 12 is actually 11 1/2 in. wide. so for every deep box you need a 1x12 7ft long.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

>> a 1 x 12 is actually 11 1/2 in. wide. 

Dimensional lumber with widths greater than a nominal 6" lose 3/4", so a 2x12 or 1x12 is actually 11 1/4" wide, and a 2x10 or 1x10 is actually 9 1/4" wide. More details here: http://www.engineersedge.com/commercial_lumber_sizes.htm


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

To get specific, that 1x12 8' long is 3/4"x11 1/4"x8'. The only reason that I brought this up is that softwood, dimensional lumber is not ordered by the board foot. Hardwoods often are. If you go to a big box store and tell the new kid there you need 8 board feet of clear pine, you'll get the deer in the headlight stare, and the experienced lumber man will roll his eyes and ask what you really need.

Wayne


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## j.kuder (Dec 5, 2010)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> >> a 1 x 12 is actually 11 1/2 in. wide.
> 
> Dimensional lumber with widths greater than a nominal 6" lose 3/4", so a 2x12 or 1x12 is actually 11 1/4" wide, and a 2x10 or 1x10 is actually 9 1/4" wide. More details here: http://www.engineersedge.com/commercial_lumber_sizes.htm


that's what they are supposed to be but I've had everything from 9 1/4 up to 9 5/8 same for all the other width boards. but any way the only way I would consider making my own boxes is if the lumber was free. I buy budget boxes from mann lake by the time you do the box joints,rabbets and hand holds it ain't worth it to make them myself. same for the frames. preassembled with waxed plastic foundation


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## larryh (Jul 28, 2014)

6' will make a box using rabbet joints and cleats. Once you've got your tools set up and numbers figured out it really only takes a few minutes per box to make the cuts. If you build them in batches you can be pretty efficient. I'm sure most anyone makes more money at their day job, but it is fun to make stuff (even silly boxes)with your own two hands.


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