# Captured a swarm! Will it survive?



## Arpolis (Aug 26, 2013)

Hello all.

A couple weeks ago I came home to a nice football size swarm ball of wild bees in my back yard just camped in my Rose of Sharon trees. I actually built two hive bodies and was going to take some beekeeping classes back in January of this year but luck had it, life happened and I did not go through with it. So I did not start a hive in the beginning if the season when I should have. But now it seems nature might have wanted me to have a second chance. I took my 10 frame Langstroth hive and loaded it with 9 of my foundation less frames. I just have a spline on the top inner portion of the frame that I coated with some bees wax. I cut the branch the ball of bees were on and shook them into the hive. After about 3 days there were no swarm balls outside and these bees were still in my hive. So I put out a couple Bowles of sugar water with wooded floats for an island. (1 part sugar 2 part water by weight) also my entrance reducer is on the smallest setting. I checked on them today and there are two combs started on the back two frames. So I know it is late in the season. I want to know if anyone can estimate on if they think these bees can survive the winter? Oklahoma has had some mild winters recently. Heck last winter my grass in the yard never really turned brown but stayed green most the year. Do you think these bees can fill up two hive bodies? If they do should I add honey supers? If they do not build enough comb and store honey then what is the best way to feed the bees in the winter? Any info would be greatly appreciated.


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

I'm not so sure they will make it to be honest. If they were hived with drawn frames they would have a better chance. Feed the bejeezus out of them. They weren't going to make it for sure without your intervention, at least they may have a shot now.


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

I think you might want to flip the recipe for your sugar water, at least 1-1 if not 2-1 sugar syrup they tell me. Good Luck. G


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## burns375 (Jul 15, 2013)

I would try wintering them in a 5 frame nuc.


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## Arpolis (Aug 26, 2013)

"I think you might want to flip the recipe for your sugar water, at least 1-1 if not 2-1 sugar syrup they tell me. Good Luck. G"


The reason I did a one to two (sugar to water) ratio because many references point to a thinner syrup will propagate brood rearing. I thought I remembered a couple online sources giving that ratio. I just checked one if my books "Bee keeping 101 by Nick Winters" and he describes the brood rearing thin nectar supplement as 1 part sugar and 1 part water. So you are most likely correct good sir. I will change out the syrup tomorrow. I think I will see how they do. If they only draw 5 frames or so before it gets too cold then I will switch to a 5 frame nuke but I am going to power feed them for now and see what they can do. Any other suggestions?


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## KPeacock (Jan 29, 2013)

swarms draw out wax at a seemingly impossible rate. Keep feeding them! they need it to draw the wax this late in the year. if it were me, I'd feed 1:1 until they had 5+ frames fdrawn. Then I'd start feeding them 2:1. if tehy keep drawing out, great, but you need them to pack away "honey" for the winter. you may want to start researching winter feeding as well. One of my hives is a late split and I'm not too far ahead of you with it. I'll be pumping a lot of sugar into that hive.


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## dirt road (Jan 4, 2011)

As has been suggested, feed as much as they will use. Also probably wouldn't hurt to get a few pollen substitute patties. Just lay one on top of the frames, and replace when it's gone. While you're waiting to see how they do, build a sugar board and put it on once it turns cold. 10 pounds of sugar doesn't cost much, and will often save a weak or marginal hive.


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## beegeorge (Apr 19, 2012)

feed, Feed, FEED,, and then FEED some more.. I would definitely consider using a frame feeder or other type of inside the hive feeder (not a boardman) 

good luck,,/ I had a sofball size swarm last Sept,, that wintered over,, by constant feeding.


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## Arpolis (Aug 26, 2013)

Thank you all for the suggestions. I will keep at it and will probably add another feeder in conjunction with what I have to maximize the feeding. I now feel better about this endeavor.


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## Arpolis (Aug 26, 2013)

dirt road said:


> As has been suggested, feed as much as they will use. Also probably wouldn't hurt to get a few pollen substitute patties. Just lay one on top of the frames, and replace when it's gone. While you're waiting to see how they do, build a sugar board and put it on once it turns cold. 10 pounds of sugar doesn't cost much, and will often save a weak or marginal hive.


I googled beehive candy board and came across this:

http://www.tillysnest.com/2012/12/a-winter-beehive-candy-board.html?m=1

It looks really cool! If time comes and it looks like there is not enough honey I will definably try this. Does anyone think I should put one of these in now? Would that help or should I stick to the syrup?


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## rwlaw (May 4, 2009)

See if you can beg/buy a couple frames of drawn comb from somebody,the more brood you got going into this time of year the better.You don't have to put sugar on em till it's to cold to feed and it'll just get moldy. Keep feeding, the worst case is they don't make it and you'll have some drawn comb for next year.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

I respectifull disagree with much of what has been said above. 

I do agree to get them in a five frame nuc. and if, you can get some drawn comb, by all means, use it.

Best course of action is, if you have access to any bee club members, see if you can purchase two deep frames of capped honey. That will get them through. If not..... 

Only feed them until they start drawing out your combs. Then STOP FEEDING. If you continually, heavily, feed them, they will become Welfare Bees, make no attempt at foraging, no attempt at gathering pollen and nectar, and assume that a major honey flow is in progress. The queen will gear up for massive egg laying at a time when she should be cutting back for Winter. Small late swarms are amazing, at how often they survive, even very late swarms, if you can get them a couple of frames of capped honey. Heavy feeding of sugar syrup will have them storing sugar syrup and neglecting to store pollen which is also necessary for overwintering. 

Late swarms are able to make it when you think there is no way. Swarms are uniquely configured with the right mix of bees, to forage and store honey and pollen for Winter. Six weeks from now, if they do not have adequate stores, then you can feed on warm days, use the candy board method, perhaps sugar on the inner cover. Right now, make them work, and let them prepare for Winter, not make them think that a Spring honey flow is just around the corner.

If they don't make it, you will have drawn combs for your next swarm, and chances are, they would not have made it any way. 

cchoganjr


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## Arpolis (Aug 26, 2013)

After reading here and also reading other places/talking to the more experienced I think I agree that I need to power feed thin syrup to try and get brood production up and then stop feeding in 6-8 weeks. If they can get some caped honey in the next two months then great but if not then sugar board or if I am lucky can get someone to loan a frame or two of capped honey. Here in another week or two I will check their progress and post the results back here. I did not really check well the other day but just cracked the top lid and looked in and there were two frames about 1/4 frame each full of drawn comb each. That is a bit of an estimate but at my little peek that is what I saw.


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## Slow Modem (Oct 6, 2011)

>I took my 10 frame Langstroth hive and loaded it with 9 of my foundation less frames.<

I would put the 10th frame in there or you'll get some really strange and hard-to-work-with comb.

And I'd be feeding 1:1 and maybe get a top feeder that will hold a gallon or more.


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## Arpolis (Aug 26, 2013)

Slow Modem said:


> I would put the 10th frame in there or you'll get some really strange and hard-to-work-with comb.
> 
> And I'd be feeding 1:1 and maybe get a top feeder that will hold a gallon or more.


Well I could not help myself and I looked at the comb again today. And it looks fine so far to my untrained eye. Each comb is the width of the top bar and the bees are totally cover each comb completely. I have a smoker on order and will get that Friday. I figured I would not do a real inspection and closely inspect the comb until I get that at least. And probably need to wait another week or two I would assume. I think when I get the smoker ill add the other frame and move things around in there.

I do not have a top feeder or anything else special right now but I have these really colorful plastic bowels I had when I spoon feed my little girls. I am not using them now so I hope the wife does not mind me putting a few of them out there. It seems the bees are prone to specific colors. They like the orange over the blue/green bowel. I am adding two yellow ones out there today. I am also switching to 1:1 syrup. Thanks for the input and any criticism. Keep it coming.


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## burns375 (Jul 15, 2013)

Its hard not to take a sneak peak! 

I would pull a few frames and put the feeder inside the hive. Or add any empty box and put the feeder ontop of the frames. Open feeders attract wasps, ants, hornets and other feral bees. A mason jar with holes in the lid will work well and won't piss off the mrs.


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## Arpolis (Aug 26, 2013)

Ok cool. When do you all think I should open up the entrance reducer. I made one with a small medium and then can be removed for full access.


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## Slow Modem (Oct 6, 2011)

bowls


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## Arpolis (Aug 26, 2013)

LOL darn my auto correcting text. I did say bowels not bowls. Placing bowels all around my hive is probably not what I want to do lol.


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## Arpolis (Aug 26, 2013)

Haha! I received my smoker today so I gave it a shot and did some nice inspecting along with taking pics. Here is the progress on one of the frames. There is one more almost just like this but the comb is half as thick.









Here is the whole comb:









I think this is pollen?









Look honey!!!









Here is some brood. Pics not that great but they are there.

















And I believe I found the queen!!!! She should be the center darker one if I identified correctly. Now just for them to complete these frames and 2 or 3 more at least and I think I will feel safe.


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## heaflaw (Feb 26, 2007)

I think you should consider what Cleo Hogan posted. There are subtleties in this. I admit, I don't understand feeding in situations like this. But he has a lot of experience and is very observant.


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## Arpolis (Aug 26, 2013)

I do plan on following his advice. We have many warm weeks ahead till it gets too cold. Ill stop feeding here in a couple weeks so I have another 6-8 weeks till all the flowers stop blooming. That way they should prepare for winter. I have little to compare my little hive to but I think I have a small population so I think my bigger priority is to stimulate good comb production and brood production. That way they can keep themselves warm in the winter. I think if I get the colony size up then feeding with the sugar board can keep them full all winter long. Let me know if I seem to be taking this in all wrong. 

Also does the last couple pics look like the queen? Her head is buried in some comb right there but she was darker and longer than all the rest.


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

Yes that is your queen. You should be getting some emerging brood soon. If you only have 2 combs drawn now you still have a ways to go. Feeding is funny and I do not know OK, but you have the best chance to draw comb with your emerging brood. For the number of bees in photo they are covering a lot of brood. Push the feed too hard and they will fill comb with stores, too slow and you will not get the most comb. Watch for eggs at all times. It looks like she is still laying the edge of the new comb as it is being drawn. That is good.


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## burns375 (Jul 15, 2013)

Looking good! I love the black queens. I doubt you need to smoke em, should be really nice. I would keep the feed on. When weather turns cooler try to confine the hive as much as possible with a follower board and one open bar for maximum heat retention, the ladies prefer tight spaces. Keep an eye on hive beetles if there bad in your area. A 0.75" diameter hole is plenty for the rest of the year. 

What kind of box are they in? top bar?

Good luck, I enjoy watching small hives grow.


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## Arpolis (Aug 26, 2013)

burns375 said:


> Looking good! I love the black queens. I doubt you need to smoke em, should be really nice. I would keep the feed on. When weather turns cooler try to confine the hive as much as possible with a follower board and one open bar for maximum heat retention, the ladies prefer tight spaces. Keep an eye on hive beetles if there bad in your area. A 0.75" diameter hole is plenty for the rest of the year.
> 
> What kind of box are they in? top bar?
> 
> Good luck, I enjoy watching small hives grow.


It is a make shift langstroth hive. I think I am off on a couple measurements because it was my first hive build and I cut twice and measured once lol. Here is a better pic of one of the empty frames:


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## Arpolis (Aug 26, 2013)

Ok a little update on my hive. I have brood hatching and population is climbing. I posted in another thread asking how to correct deformed comb. The bees were building a second bit of comb at a 90 degree angle away from the big bit of comb you see in other pics. On closer inspection this extra bit of comb was only attached at the top bar and not attached to the main portion of comb. So I scraped it off and pinched it onto one of the splines of on of my empty frames and placed that in between my two frames of comb. They seemed to properly attach that to the frame and are building on that too. Here is a comparison pic of when I looked at them last to now:








Before








Now








And the back side.

Here is a quick pic in the hive of the other two starting combs:









Ill take some more pics in another week or two. Things should be starting to speed up now.


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## Arpolis (Aug 26, 2013)

Question for the experienced bee keepers out there. Can ants be detrimental to my new hive? Since I have these open feeders ants are getting into my hive. It is not super bad but I can usually count like 10 - 15 individual ants in the hive at any time. Should I be concerned and if so how do I handle this?


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## Arpolis (Aug 26, 2013)

Here are some new updated pics of the hive. A couple days ago I noticed that the sugar water I had in the hive had been there a long time and the bees were not using it. Not knowing the cause I dumped it, washed out the colored cups and filled with new 1-1 sugar syrup. Man they started to devour it fast! Also after I did that I noticed the bees being much much more active. They are everywhere now rather than all hunkered down and doing nothing in the hive. I feel much better now because for the last couple weeks they haven't produced much comb and have been lack luster. I am a little more confident now we are making progress. Here are the pics I promised.


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## burns375 (Jul 15, 2013)

Why are so many outside on the box? Are they propolising the cracks. You may want make the top fit better and add a meshed ventilation hole if you don't have top ventilation.


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## Arpolis (Aug 26, 2013)

Omg omg omg! Look!

























They are Almost ALL DEAD! :-( I am totally stunned. I have no idea what happened. The earlier pick was 2 hours before this. The last pick is the queen. She is alive now but frantically running around the hive. WHAT HAPPENED?


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## curios1 (Jul 2, 2012)

NICE ! your on your way. just keep feeding. if it were me I would put them in a 5 frame nuc. and have another 5 frame box ready to go on top for increase. even if they don't make it. I think it is definetly to late for you. I think your HOOKED.  also get a substancial amount of feed on them. when im feeding my bees I don't want them to run out. your working against the clock.


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## Arpolis (Aug 26, 2013)

curios1 said:


> NICE ! your on your way. just keep feeding. if it were me I would put them in a 5 frame nuc. and have another 5 frame box ready to go on top for increase. even if they don't make it. I think it is definetly to late for you. I think your HOOKED.  also get a substancial amount of feed on them. when im feeding my bees I don't want them to run out. your working against the clock.



Hahaha I can only laugh at your comment. Did you not read my last post and feel my distress and sadness?!? My bees are dead now. 

Actually since posting I think I found the answer. I don't think as much brood as I thought has been hatching out. There may have only been one wave of hatched brood now and 90% of that was only on one side of one comb. Last Monday was the 6 week mark from when I captured the hive. And how long do workers live... About 4-6 weeks. I think they died of old age. I may have a few hundred bees left over that are new. I think there is little hope now unless that queen gets her but in gear and just starts laying like mad.


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

Im not sure the earlier pic wasnt a case of robber bees trying to gain entry. You didnt notice any fighting? I have heard a bad case of robbing can cause mass casualties.


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## Arpolis (Aug 26, 2013)

On another site someone did mention that. I actually think that is the more likely culprit of the situation now. When inspecting the dead bees I did notice 3 live ones rolling around and it looked like 2 were attacking the one. There is also not a single drop of honey or polen left in the hive giving this theory a little more credit.


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

Feeding; inverted jar type feeder works better than pictured. Dry sugar (if that is what I see) does not establish a hive well. works as an immergency but not real well. Jar above the cluster or offset a little lets them at it but protect it. Robbing is harder for them to stop when in a larger box than they can cover. Like nucs!
Hope you give it another try.


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