# Bees on ground in front of hive



## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

Could be nosema, deformed wing virus, tracheal mites, syrup that was boiled, insecticides, or it could be nothing.


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## geebob (Apr 4, 2011)

Agree with AB. I guess you could say it is a sign that you need to keep an eye on the hive.


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## markspillman (Jun 7, 2011)

syrup that was boiled,.[/QUOTE]

I heated my syrup to disolve the sugar, how much heat does it take to cause harm to the bees?


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

I just microwave my water, then stir it into the pitcher of sugar. (gave up adding sugar to jars and causing leaky lids.)


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## geebob (Apr 4, 2011)

markspillman said:


> I heated my syrup to disolve the sugar, how much heat does it take to cause harm to the bees?


Bring the water to a boil, turn off the burner, make a sandwich, add sugar. I would never use heat and sugar together unless I really knew what I was doing (I don't).


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

what about making bee candy and boiling it to 230deg? is that bad?


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## jadell (Jun 19, 2011)

I'm also curious as to the boiling syrup question that's been posed. I've always boiled it while I was making it. They take it just fine, and I haven't noticed any problems. I wonder how you go about making 2:1? If I were to take it off the heat, 10 pounds of sugar would never dissolve. I take it off directly after it's all dissolved.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

I heat the 2:1 water in a pan to boiling, remove from heat then stir in sugar. My bees that are taking it seem to be ok.


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## jadell (Jun 19, 2011)

I was't asking how to make 2:1, it was a question for Americasbeekeeper since I understand his post to say he doesn't boil it.


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## riverbee1 (Jul 2, 2010)

Rob Price said:


> One of my hives has many bees walking around on thr ground in front of the hive. is this a sign of something? I didn't see this with the other hives.


are they walking around versus crawling around? do their wings look funny? can they fly?


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## geebob (Apr 4, 2011)

jadell said:


> I was't asking how to make 2:1, it was a question for Americasbeekeeper since I understand his post to say he doesn't boil it.


At the risk of blowing this thread wayyyyy off-course...

Overheating/overboiling syrup can cause caramelization, which causes, among other things, production of HMF. HMF does occur naturally in honey, but at very small levels. It is toxic to bees.

Again, I'm not a skilled cook (or beekeeper for that matter), so I try to keep things as simple as possible when I make syrup.


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## riverbee1 (Jul 2, 2010)

at the risk of putting this thread back on track…….

mix sugar and hot water until all of the sugar is dissolved, _hot tap water is hot enough to dissolve the sugar_; *or* _mix the sugar with hot—NOT BOILING—water_ that has been heated over a stove or micro. *n**ever let the sugar water solution boil over direct heat; syrup that is burned or caramelized, will cause high bee mortality.* also, 411, heating the mixture over steam or in a double boiler will prevent caramelization.

when i feed 2:1 in pails, i fill the pail with the correct amount of sugar, i don’t even measure anymore because i know how much i need in a gallon or 3 gallon pail. i dump half of it out, i run tap water, until it is hot, and fill the pail ½ way. i stir the sugar, and as i stir i dump the rest in, slowly. to this i will add one to two cups of hot, _not boiling _water, from the stove or micro. stir. top off with cool water. 

if your sugar water is hot in the container, it is too hot.

BTW You don’t want to burn the tongues of your little ladies either.

hope this helps with the sugar discussion in this thread.

*now, i would like to know what’s going on with Rob Prices bees……!*


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## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

Carmelizing is not nearly as toxic as HMF.
"When exposed to warm temperatures, sugar can form HMF and kill honeybees. Some researchers believe that HMF may be a factor in Colony Collapse Disorder, a mysterious disease that has killed at least one-third of the honeybee population in the United States.

The scientists measured levels of HMF in sugar products from different manufacturers over a period of 35 days at different temperatures. As temperatures rose, levels of HMF increased steadily. Levels jumped dramatically at about 120 degrees Fahrenheit."

HMF was determined to be a factor in "Gulf War Syndrome" with all the drinks and foods sitting out in steel shipping containers in the desert. You probably never heard of HMF in Desert Storm because the same group that lobbied to change HFCS to Corn Sugar hushed the story. HMF is a neurotoxin that breaks down the nerve synapsis. If you get bees crawling out front like they are drunk or sick it could be HMF.


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## Seymore (May 1, 2009)

I use an auto tea maker to make my sugar water. You know, the Mr. Coffee kind. It doesn't boil it but I don't have problem with dissolving even at the 2:1 level. I always let a bit of water get into the container first, since I noticed it "chunks up" when I put the sugar in first. I dissolve all my sugar into the hot water, then I pour the solution into a gallon container and fill it up with cold water. Quick, easy, and I don't have to wait for the temps to cool down.


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## Hokie Bee Daddy (Apr 1, 2011)

Back to Rob Price's bees...

I have experience with nosema and varroa mites causing this so where I live they would be the most likely culprits. Symptoms of each are:

Varroa mites - deformed wing virus. If the bees can't fly because their wings aren't fully developed you should suspect varroa and treat the hive.
Nosema - trails or spots of bee poop on the hive. If you see this along with crawling bees you should treat with Fumidil B.

Or you can treat for both to be on the safe side. Either way I would go ahead and treat because those bees that are crawling are dying and the numbers in the hive are dwindling. If the hive gets too weak its an invitation to wax moths this time of year. This is just my opinion but I wouldn't wait to see if it was nothing.


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## riverbee1 (Jul 2, 2010)

yes, varroa, my thinking was maybe trachael mites. the bees just leave the hive and start crawling around in front of it, and i wouldn't wait to see if it was nothing, my two cents as well.


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

I had the same deal here with bees on the ground in front of one of my hives. I am in my first year and thought that it was normal until a guy at the bee meeting brought it up. Another thought it was tracheal mites. And since it was the correct time of year to treat I gave it a try. For the first time I have no bees walking on the ground in front of my hive. It was suggested that I walk over to them and see if they flew away or if they just all crawled away.


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## ForrestB (May 26, 2013)

posted in wrong thread


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## homesteader824 (Jun 9, 2012)

Rob Price said:


> One of my hives has many bees walking around on thr ground in front of the hive. is this a sign of something? I didn't see this with the other hives.


If they are healthy, it could be as simple a problem as not enough space in the hive, or maybe not enough ventilation.


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## Davis0588 (Aug 18, 2017)

jadell said:


> I'm also curious as to the boiling syrup question that's been posed. I've always boiled it while I was making it. They take it just fine, and I haven't noticed any problems. I wonder how you go about making 2:1? If I were to take it off the heat, 10 pounds of sugar would never dissolve. I take it off directly after it's all dissolved.


It's not the boiling, it's burning that's harmful. I boil the water in a tea kettle, put the sugar in jars, then pour the water in the jars. The sugar lowers the temp of the water and will dissolve a 2:1 mixture. As long as you don't burn your syrup, you're fine. Taking the water off the stove before adding sugar is enough.


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

A stick blender works wonders to get the sugar dissolved. I make my syrup in half-gallon jars. Fill the jar with sugar up to the shoulders, pour in as much just-off the boil water from a tea kettle as necessary to get the mixture back up to the level of the dry sugar (I know that sounds weird, but it works.) Use stick blender as necessary to combine, and keep combining until the solution level is back up to where you started with the sugar all dissolved. Give a last whirl and cap it for transport to the yard.

I measure the sugar into the jars already set in the sink and pour the water and blend while they are still in the sink. When I'm done I just rinse it all down, even the sealed jars. I was making a fearful sticky mess on the counters before I did this. I decant 25 lb bags of sugar into a five gallon covered pail and use a grain scoop and wide-mouth funnel to get it into the jars. I don't actually measure the sugar, but the just fill it up and add enough water to get it back up method creates a nearly perfect 2:1 ratio. I think it was Mike Palmer who described this process and it works, like his other tips, exactly as expected.

Nancy


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