# Harvesting and Preserving Royal Jelly for Grafting



## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

I can't answer you regarding freezing of RJ. However, there are breeders that will use plain yogurt as a substitute for RJ and I've read that it works well.


----------



## JSL (Sep 22, 2007)

I collect royal jelly, and dilute it with approximately 30% saline. Diluting it just makes it flow a little easier through the dropper. I store it in about 10ml plastic vials that I can keep in the freezer and thaw as needed and they stick back in the freezer.


----------



## Riskybizz (Mar 12, 2010)

JSL I know that many breeders do not find it necessary or advocate priming the cell cups before grafting. Is this your preferred method? Can you explain how you find it beneficial personally. 
Thanks


----------



## rkereid (Dec 20, 2009)

RJ freezes and thaws really well for reuse in grafting. I've had great luck doing it.


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

I have also been told not to bother but find priming cells increased our acceptance as it probably quickened us up during the graft.
I would assume all priming fluid gets replaced immediately anyway.?


----------



## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

Ian said:


> I have also been told not to bother but find priming cells increased our acceptance as it probably quickened us up during the graft.
> I would assume all priming fluid gets replaced immediately anyway.?


I don't believe that it really matters. The biggest issue is which method are you more comfortable using. I've had equal acceptance using primed and unprimed. My preferred approach now is primed. I'm not a huge fan of the Chinese tool, so that impacts my preference.


----------



## Brandy (Dec 3, 2005)

OK Astro, inquiring minds want to know, what's your preferred method...???


----------



## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

My preferred tool is JZ-BZ plastic tool - $3.50 from Mann Lake. My preferred method for grafting is to take a frame with eggs from the breeder queen and place it in my cell starter. Come back the next day and graft the smallest possible larva from it. You may wonder why the day delay? During that 1st day, the nurse bees have already started making queen cells using day 4 larva. So the following day you'll see queen cells with day 5 larva floating in lots of royal jelly. I discard these and use the remaining royal jelly to prime cups and graft using the smallest larva on the frame. The RJ on these day 5 larva will still be nice and thin, not the more solid that you'll find after more time has passed. Of course you could wait another day too, as I'm assuming the frame provided has lots of eggs of different ages, however, the consistency of the RJ will change in the older cells. 

I have no proof of any special advantages, but perhaps it helps to get the cell starter focused on making RJ and the consistency of the RJ may be more beneficial. This is total conjecture on my part. It just works for me. Of course, your new grafts are then placed in the same cell starter.

Regardless which method you use, I find getting larva off the tool much much easier in a bed of RJ.


----------



## TalonRedding (Jul 19, 2013)

AstroBee said:


> I'm not a huge fan of the Chinese tool, so that impacts my preference.


I started out using a German grafting tool and that is all I have used thus far. 

Ian, would royal jelly also get removed and replaced? I have yet to come across this bit of info.


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesqueenrearingsimplified.htm#c6

"As a container for royal jelly, I use a small porcelain jar with a screw cap. A piece of waxed cardboard in the cover makes it air-tight. Let me offer a suggestion as to where you can get one of these jars. Make a raid on your wife's manicuring outfit, and, if luck is with you, you will find one of these jars. To be sure that luck will be with you, better do it when she is out. This jar usually has some pink dope in it. Take this out, put it into a tin can, present it to your wife with your compliments and make off with the jar. Thoroughly sterilize this jar by boiling, for the bees seem to object to the funny smell that comes with it. If your wife does not have this, or if you do not have a wife, you can go to the drug store and find just the size and style that suit you. The dope looks as though it might be of use if you put it into the grease cups of your flivver, but I do not want to suggest too many dangerous experiments for you to try all at once. For a jelly spoon, I prefer to make one out of the bone handle of a toothbrush, which also may be found in the manicuring outfit. Break off the brush and whittle down the small end until it fits nicely into a worker-cell. This jelly spoon and the jelly jar are to be carried in the pocket of your trousers or dress, whichever you wear. While working with your bees during the season you will be running across colonies that have royal jelly to spare. Whenever a swarm issues, just take out the jar and spoon and get the royal jelly. I have found that I come across enough in my regular work so that I never have to make any special hunt for jelly. It is well to have two of these jars; keep one in your pocket and the other in the grafting room."--Jay Smith, Queen Rearing Simplified, Chapter VI


----------



## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

Using your wife's moisturizer to grease the joints on your Model T. Awesome!


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Using your wife's moisturizer to grease the joints on your Model T. Awesome!

Yes, and carve the jelly spoon out of the bone handle of your toothbrush... I thought I was up on all those old things, but I never even heard of a bone handle on a toothbrush until I read this... But seriously folks, they do still make these porcelain jars and you can carve the spoon out of anything or buy a small spatula that fits inside a cell. I did this for a while and decided it was not of much use. I don't prime them anymore and a few years after this was written, neither did Smith:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesbetterqueens.htm#Shortcomings of the Grafting Method

"We used to prime our cells with bee milk but, after careful examination, believe it was a detriment, for the first thing the bees do is to remove all the milk we had put in. Grafting in bare cells is better-or rather not so bad."--Jay Smith, Better Queens, "Shortcomings of the Grafting Method"


----------



## adamf (Jan 28, 2006)

Sadly, another downside to priming with Royal Jelly is that it may significantly increase one's chances of getting a Black Queen Cell Virus breakdown.

Adam
--
http://vpqueenbees.com


----------



## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

adamf said:


> Sadly, another downside to priming with Royal Jelly is that it may significantly increase one's chances of getting a Black Queen Cell Virus breakdown.
> 
> Adam
> --
> http://vpqueenbees.com



How so, Adam? If you take RJ from an apiary without BQCV how would priming make any difference?


----------



## JSL (Sep 22, 2007)

I do prime everything I graft as described and have for nearly 30 years now. Contents are removed shortly after grafting, but priming cells allows me to graft very young larvae using a grafting tool similar to German style, but even smaller. I find a slightly higher acceptance rate with grafting. The other advantage for me is my yards are scattered within a 20 mile range of my home cell builder yard. I can graft a primed bar in a yard, wrap in in damp paper towels and head for home or another yard.

I only use my collected RJ, but yes, disease would always be a concern if purchasing RJ.


----------



## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

I use a 60 cc syringe for harvesting royal jelly. Instead of double grafting, I place a comb with eggs laid by a breeder (from whom I'm not grafting from today) into the cell builder for 4 hours, then take it out and use the syringe to draw sometimes 15 to 20 cc of first-day RJ. When I take it out, I place the queen cell bar frame into the cell builder for polishing, then I'll go set up my backpack tent for grafting the next day. I check and make sure everything is ready, and do a dry run.

The syringe can stay at room temperature until the next day when I graft, or refrigerated if its hot out. The night before grafting day, I remove the queen cell bar frame (it has been polished in the CB for maybe 4 or 5 hours). I do as Michael Palmer does, start re-arranging the cell builders at 7AM and start grafting about 3pm. 

Right before grafting time, say about 2:30 PM, I dampen a couple of towels and put them into the dryer to get them damp and warm, and microwave 2 cups of hot water. I mix in cold water to get 94 degrees F, pour some of it into a Ziploc bag, which I put in the bottom of the Styrofoam carton, the towel on top of it (inside of the carton gets about 92 to 93 degrees F) . I pour the rest of the 94-degree F water into a spray bottle, then go put it all in the grafting tent. I prime the QC cups with RJ, zip up my veil, and go get the combs out of the breeder hive's "queen isolation ward", brush off the bees, and take it to my tent for grafting. Spray a primed queen cell cup with water, graft a larva, cover the cup with the other damp, (now 92 to 93 degree F) towel. You should be through the bar in less than 10 minutes. Connect it to the frame and go place it in the Cell Builder colony. Go back to the tent, graft the next bar, go add it to the frame in the cell builder. Repeat if you are using a 3-bar deep frame.

On the subject of grafting tools, I still using two favorites - a bent wire "spoon" and a #000 artists' sable paintbrush. I wear a head lamp over the 7X loupes, and hold a MiniMag flashlight with one finger while holding the grafting tool or paint brush between my thumb and the other fingers. I have yet to try an automatic grafting needle, I hear the folks who've used them love them.


----------



## Brandy (Dec 3, 2005)

Kilo I would have thought it's already 90 plus degrees where your at during the summer...and you wouldn't need all that microwaving etc....


----------



## adamf (Jan 28, 2006)

AstroBee said:


> How so, Adam? If you take RJ from an apiary without BQCV how would priming make any difference?


It wouldn't. However, background populations of Black Queen Cell Virus are present in most bee populations. I can dredge up a reference if you want, or you can look it up.

We've had the gracious help of Dr. Judy Cheng, USDA, Beltsville Bee Lab (http://www.ars.usda.gov/pandp/people/people.htm?personid=12903) in analyzing samples for us for BQCV.


We ceased priming cells with RJ and the breakdown of BQCV ceased. 

I've observed BQCV heaviest when colonies are stressed and RJ is then collected. This was during early Spring buildup, when colonies are

expanding rapidly and temperatures fluctuate; BQCV levels were higher then background then, due no doubt to the colonies' taxed natural resistance then.





JSL said:


> I only use my collected RJ, but yes, disease would always be a concern if purchasing RJ."




We'll see virus mainly in early Spring. We don't see it much; some years none at all. Since BQCV doesn't show until grafting and cell building, by cutting out a potential

transmission point: Royal Jelly, we can control potential breakdowns and still observe colonies' performance even if they do have BQCV at higher then background levels. Selecting from a pool of colonies that 

either show no signs of virus under stress, or who have overcome a virus, while under stress, is a great selection tool!

Eradicating virus has never been very successful. Managing the viral transmission to remain minimum and keeping livestock healthy overall, also keeps viral outbreaks to a minimum.


Adam
http://vpqueenbees.com


----------



## JSL (Sep 22, 2007)

Adam,

Now that you mention that, I remember talking with a commercial queen producer many years ago that shared a similar experience. Although in his case, he was reusing plastic queen cell cups to save a little money. Once he stopped reusing the cups, his problem went away.

I have not seen a case of BQCV in my operation for about 10-12 years now, although I have no doubt there is a background infection level as it shows up on most samples.

I think most commercial operations have forgone priming, mainly as a timing issue, but I still use it for convenience as mentioned above. I am only aware of one large operation that still primes. They say they get a single digit improvement in their acceptance level, but on hundreds of thousands of cells it adds up.


----------



## adamf (Jan 28, 2006)

JSL said:


> Now that you mention that, I remember talking with a commercial queen producer many years ago that shared a similar experience. Although in his case, he was reusing plastic queen cell cups to save a little money. Once he stopped reusing the cups, his problem went away.


Joe, interesting. Virus by itself can't live for too long outside of a host. I wonder if the guy you mention was reusing the cells immediately? I'd think boiling old JZBZ cups to clean them would remove all viral activity.

But, better safe then sorry, right?




JSL said:


> I think most commercial operations have forgone priming, mainly as a timing issue, but I still use it for convenience as mentioned above. I am only aware of one large operation that still primes. They say they get a single digit improvement in their acceptance level, but on hundreds of thousands of cells it adds up.



I get a slightly better take with priming and can get the really tiny larva. 

But, I have to settle for dry grafting. I've adapted... the "Chinese" grafting tools I use always seem so fragile, but they work fine!

HAPPY NEW YEARS!

Adam
http://vpqueenbees.com


----------



## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

I have heard (perhaps it was advice from the manufacturer? ...I can't remember) that the best way to deal with cleaning the jzbz cups was to pile them in an empty bee box in the apiary...the wax moths will clean everything up.


----------



## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

Just off the top of my head, I wonder if it would be worth sending some royal jelly through irradiation....I don't think there is anything in there that needs to be kept alive, and I don't believe the process would denature enzymes or otherwise change the nature of the rj.



adamf said:


> Joe, interesting. Virus by itself can't live for too long outside of a host. I wonder if the guy you mention was reusing the cells immediately? I'd think boiling old JZBZ cups to clean them would remove all viral activity.
> 
> But, better safe then sorry, right?
> 
> ...


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

TalonRedding said:


> Ian, would royal jelly also get removed and replaced? I have yet to come across this bit of info.


Diluted RJ would probably be added to, reworked or replaced to make up the adequate feed for the larvae. 
We have been diluting ours with saline to make a thinner suspension. One drop per cell. Lots of guys around here who know what they are doing dry graft faster than I can.
I think drying out is my largest factor so priming helps keep the larvae swimming


----------



## TalonRedding (Jul 19, 2013)

Gotcha. Good to know!


----------

