# Honey Bee Counter



## hydronics (Mar 6, 2012)

Hi,

I wanted to share my honey bee counter... It counts bees as they leave and enter the hive. Its so new I have no real data yet but I'll publish some information as it becomes available. Here is the website were you can review the design and build one yourself! cheers, -tom

http://www.instructables.com/id/Honey-Bee-Counter/


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## dloop (Jan 13, 2012)

Very cool!


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## marenostrum (Nov 18, 2011)

Nice move! :applause:

There are very few impementations of the recent IT technologies for beekeeping, as far as I can see. I believe that electronic/computer-related monitoring tools of various kinds might be very useful especially for the hobbyist who would like to monitor a couple of hives (all s/he has!) very closely.

Temperature, humidity, queen behaviour, new queen cells, ratio of drone cells, comb building levels, stores, predator assault, pest/parasite presence and activity... all can be easily monitored on real time basis from the screen of your computer without the need for cabling. Software to evaluate varios data can be created as well. Technology is already out there. What needed is just some implementations. (On the other hand; it's a must to have more info on the affects of various kinds and levels of electronic/optical waves on bees.)

"Smart hives" may be on the way!

*Edit*: I just happened to see an interesting document related with the thread.


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## Frankh (Aug 28, 2011)

Couldn't you just put a time clock and cards inside the hive?


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## rlsiv (Feb 26, 2011)

Frankh said:


> Couldn't you just put a time clock and cards inside the hive?



Don't do It ! They'll unionize !!!!


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

How close is the out to the in at nightfall?


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## schmism (Feb 7, 2009)

so you have 2 sets of IR readers for each "channel" how do you tell direction?


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## robherc (Mar 17, 2012)

schmism said:


> so you have 2 sets of IR readers for each "channel" how do you tell direction?


With "2 sensors per gate" you have one closer to the outside, and one closer to the inside (see pics on his page). You go by the order the sensors are triggered in, I.E. inside+outside=bee leaving ... outside+inside=bee returning. That part's a very easy circuit to design, although I think he's using a comparator algorithm in the microprocessor for it...too bad, would be interesting to have seen which direction he took for putting it in a hardware circuit...and more reliable


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## RobWok (May 18, 2011)

This I think is pretty awesome. I would think researchers would be desperate to use this. They could tell exactly to the day how insecticide spraying affects the bees, how humidity might affect numbers, how many bees die in rain. Whether a swarm grabs a lot more than just the daily workers. A mashup of the counts to other hive situations such as temperature and humidity could show all sorts of other factors. Time of day, bloom types driving different behavior, acceptance of lost bees if you were to dump them in front of the hive, affect of entrance feeder or top feeder on outside nectar collection (I've always wondered if nurse bees might help in getting nectar if it's right there in the hive since they already move honey to brood, or if there is a strict division of labor.

Brilliant. It may be tough to do on a mad rush like robbing, or swarms (oh, another one, how many workers get left after a swarm - is it 50%? 10%?)

Congrats. Next, you need to build it with a wifi SD card, solar cell, and waterproof housing, you've got it. 


Whoops, too late. Chinese company is selling a copy of your design for $49.95 on eBay. (just kidding)


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## garusher (May 28, 2012)

Couple that with the IRFID application i intend to write so frames can be assigned to hives, with notes and pictures for each frame, plus GPS locaion and humidity, temp etc etc.

Then scanning of frames prior and after extraction.

Should make Queen and hive selection a little more of a science.
be able to monitor disease spread, and even local bloom dates. tie this all together nationally and have a select breeding program.

Gary


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## hydronics (Mar 6, 2012)

ha! another bee counter... Well that's pretty cool. I'll check it out. I have to admit in my research leading up to building the counter I hadn't found any other commercial viable products(not that mine is very commercial viable at this point). thanks for the link. -tom


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## hydronics (Mar 6, 2012)

Frankh said:


> Couldn't you just put a time clock and cards inside the hive?


yea, I think that might work. I wanted to have it easily removable. I'm not sure its wise to always have it on the hive... I like the idea of getting data once a week or so. 

I'm concerned that all the little 'gates' will not allow the bees to clean out dead bees or drag out fighting bees (as I seem them do from time to time!). Anyone have any ideas on this? thanks.


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## hydronics (Mar 6, 2012)

Acebird said:


> How close is the out to the in at nightfall?


I haven't really had time to compile the data yet. I'll keep you posted when this I get the data crunched. thanks, tom


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## hydronics (Mar 6, 2012)

RobWok said:


> ..... how insecticide spraying affects the bees, how humidity might affect numbers, how many bees die in rain. Whether a swarm grabs a lot more than just the daily workers. A mashup of the counts to other hive situations such as temperature and humidity could show all sorts of other factors. Time of day, bloom types driving different behavior, acceptance of lost bees if you were to dump them in front of the hive, affect of entrance feeder or top feeder on outside nectar collection....


yea robwok, it would be cool to see more data on this. I talked to a bee researcher at Oregon State University last week that said they use a lot of hand counters... sit their and click when they see the bees move!.... pretty funny eh! I'm giving away the design for free for anyone that wants to use it and I may sell some kits for ~$150 but I wont be making much cash!



RobWok said:


> ...Congrats. Next, you need to build it with a wifi SD card, solar cell, and waterproof housing, you've got it.


Right now I'm working on the real time... the goal is to have a real time data and VIDEO feed to an art installation in New York in September... I got a bit of work to do! -tom


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## Aerindel (Apr 14, 2012)

> Don't do It ! They'll unionize !!!!


You don't think they have already? Bees are the perfect socialist society.

Anyway, neat device. I may need one.


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## schmism (Feb 7, 2009)

I wonder if you could combine it with a tinny load cell for each channel so you could get a weight difference for in/out for carry weights for water/pollen/necture


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

A load cell that sensitive would go nuts from the bee feet passing through.


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## robherc (Mar 17, 2012)

hydronics said:


> I'm concerned that all the little 'gates' will not allow the bees to clean out dead bees or drag out fighting bees (as I seem them do from time to time!). Anyone have any ideas on this? thanks.


Hmmm...if you made the "Dividers" between the gates out of 3-5 bristles from a paintbrush, or something similar (i.e. resilient single-strands, all in a single-row), it would highly encourage the bees to move through the "gates" in an orderly fashion (i.e. wouldn't badly impair the accuracy of your counter), but could be pushed out of the way easily enough when an "oversized load" was being dragged through. At least, the way I'm envisioning it, it seems like it would.

Drawbacks: Using the fibers like I suggested above would roughly double the # of "gates" in your design, requiring a re-design of your circuit to accept the extra data, or you'd have to reduce the entrance down a bit, so that it was still the same number of "gates." If you're truly interested in trying it, PM me & I can help you with a couple ideas for how you could maybe double the # of gates your microchip could register (maybe)


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## hydronics (Mar 6, 2012)

robherc said:


> Hmmm...if you made the "Dividers" between the gates out of 3-5 bristles from a paintbrush, or something similar



Good idea!... the bees would totally take the path of least resistance 100% of the time unless they had a load... I don't see why I'd have to double the sensors though... just replace the little plastic blocks with little paint brushes!...


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## hydronics (Mar 6, 2012)

I'll be at the mini-maker Faire in Eugene, Oregon this Saturday (6/16) if anyone is in the area and wants to check it out...

Also, our Portland Bee Keeper group is going to do a group build and sell a few with proceeds going to the Oregon State University Bee Lab... message me and I'll put you on the list....


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## robherc (Mar 17, 2012)

hydronics said:


> I don't see why I'd have to double the sensors though... just replace the little plastic blocks with little paint brushes!...


I was thinking of spacing. In order for the brushes to be pliable enough to allow a bee who's already struggling to pull out a body through, I'd think you'd almost have to go with a few "single-file" bristles between gates, which would take up a bit less space than your plastic blocks. With that extra space per gate, you'd need more gates or a narrower total entrance, in order to avoid allowing 2 bees to use the same gate at once...or at least that's my line of thinking there


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Hydronics, why do you need the plastic boxes? Just put the sensors close enough together that the bees can't go through without triggering one of them.


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## robherc (Mar 17, 2012)

The way his chip is programmed, the sensors have to be triggered in order, by bees following a predictable, straight-in, or straight-out path. If there were no "corrals" to force the bees to follow the direction of the sensors, a bee traveling diagonally would mess up his stats & potentially cause a sensor error to the chip, invalidating all data collected after that point (i.e. If a bee passed under the inside sensor from channel1, then the outside sensor from channel2, then both channels would have halfway counted a bee, and would be giving faulty direction data from then on, until manually reset).


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

I wouldn't think his sensors would be that critical. What if a bee enters in triggers the first sensor and backs out before hitting any other? Nothing you do will be 100% perfect count that is why I asked how close the out was to the in numbers.


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## hydronics (Mar 6, 2012)

Acebird said:


> I wouldn't think his sensors would be that critical. What if a bee enters in triggers the first sensor and backs out before hitting any other? Nothing you do will be 100% perfect count that is why I asked how close the out was to the in numbers.


Im shooting for 95% accuracy and initial count seems probable... We'll see! Data coming soon...


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## hydronics (Mar 6, 2012)

schmism said:


> I wonder if you could combine it with a tinny load cell for each channel so you could get a weight difference for in/out for carry weights for water/pollen/necture


I talked to a professor at Oregon State University and they have a few hives set up on load cells measuring these things... It would be interesting to see the results and what kind of correlations they're looking for..


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## hydronics (Mar 6, 2012)

I just got some initial data... still working out the bugs but pretty cool:








I've posted the data here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApnLvyvHFLKidHNHNWtZQ3lJSzFCZ2kyX0VVVmU0LUE


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## robherc (Mar 17, 2012)

Interesting, I wonder if all the "in" levels are heightened due to the bees all going airborne when you installed the counter (maybe), or from all having been out foraging?
I for one would be interested in seeing the results from running it all day after a middle-of-the-night install (I.E. install several hours before sunrise, then start logging data just before sunrise). That might give the bees time to get settled after the install, then show some patterns of hive activity from dawn to dusk.


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## hydronics (Mar 6, 2012)

robherc said:


> I for one would be interested in seeing the results from running it all day after a middle-of-the-night install (I.E. install several hours before sunrise, then start logging data just before sunrise).


You bet robherc, I'm pushing to get a full day... Maybe tomorrow. I'm juggling calibration, finishing the code, and finishing a group order including 2 going to the Oregon State University Bee Lab... pretty exciting stuff.

here's the latest calibration video from today. It was a bit slow in the evening time but it was 91% accurate: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ex-dqyuC8hw&feature=youtu.be


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## max2 (Dec 24, 2009)

A beecounter - would love one! I can see this allowing us to take some of the guesses out of beekeeping.


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## hydronics (Mar 6, 2012)

Here's some live data from today... the spike at 3pm followed the end of a little sprinkle or rain... the overall bee activity is low due to the weather: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApnLvyvHFLKidEozenBJR09RLUZzbUdUQnlLU2Q0ZFE


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## robherc (Mar 17, 2012)

looks pretty good...can start seeing some patterns in the spikes, in-spikes following out-spikes & such...interesting the high out vs in ratio @ 8:00PM!
I wonder what might have caused that?


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## hydronics (Mar 6, 2012)

robherc said:


> looks pretty good...can start seeing some patterns in the spikes, in-spikes following out-spikes & such...interesting the high out vs in ratio @ 8:00PM!
> I wonder what might have caused that?


At some point in the evening (at least when its warm) I've noticed the bees start to come out on the portch and hang out... That might entail just sitting in the 'gate' so the data will start to become less significant... Even when its not warm, the propensity of the bees to hover towards the entrance will make the data after dusk become less and less relevant!


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

hydronics said:


> Here's some live data from today...


Do you have a way to measure the area of the graph to compare the total in to the total out?


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## hydronics (Mar 6, 2012)

Acebird said:


> Do you have a way to measure the area of the graph to compare the total in to the total out?


At the bottom of the document you can access the tabs and the raw data INs and OUTs...


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Interesting data. Before the update the in's were more than the out's from around 11:00 to evening. The next day it looks more reversed. Did you do any software changes after the update?


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## hydronics (Mar 6, 2012)

Acebird said:


> Interesting data. Before the update the in's were more than the out's from around 11:00 to evening. The next day it looks more reversed. Did you do any software changes after the update?


No I haven't made any changes in software... after the +10,000 bee delta from yesterday I went out and looked closely at the bee hive and found a large gap on each side of the PCB where the bees could pass in without being counted. The bees are more likely to access these gaps when returning to the hive... we'll see today if that makes up for any of the large delta between total bees in and total bees seen in the data...


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