# How many hives on your truck?



## peggjam (Mar 4, 2005)

I've kicked this idea around myself for over a year, and have no conclusions to relate. Pallet size depends on what you want, there are 4 hive pallets, and 6 hive pallets. The bigger guys seem to prefer the 6 hive pallets, but I like the ease of working the 4 hive pallets, as one side of every hive is to the outside edge. The Mann Lake pallets are 47" X 32.5" with U shaped pallet clips, 33.25 with W shaped pallet clips.

Maybe you should consider a bigger trailer, with a gooseneck hitch, that might solve the problem for a little while, and allow you more time to figure out what you really want/need.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

I have a 1 ton Dodge short bed, with a Cummins. Also a 16' gooseneck. Truck bed has a fold down ball for hitch. 

It's been awhile since I moved bees. Got out of pollination, and sold all my pallets to be sure. I believe I put 10, 4-way pallets on a layer, and stacked them 2 high, for 80 colonies per load.

My pallets were home made, with clips...33x48


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## Gregg (Dec 22, 2003)

2005 GMC 3500 (1 ton, not sure of GVW off hand) with a 12 foot flatbed. I can haul 64 hives at a time, 4 rows of pallets and go two high (16 pallets). Pallets are 33" x 47". Of course also pull my Bobcat on a trailer behind the truck.


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## Dan Williamson (Apr 6, 2004)

Gregg said:


> 2005 GMC 3500 (1 ton, not sure of GVW off hand) with a 12 foot flatbed. I can haul 64 hives at a time, 4 rows of pallets and go two high (16 pallets). Pallets are 33" x 47". Of course also pull my Bobcat on a trailer behind the truck.


Gregg.

Forgive my ignorance. Are those double deeps or singles on the pallets?

Thanks.


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## Bob Nelson (Feb 10, 2005)

On a 12' bed you can haul 8-4 way pallets per layer (4 on each side). Doubles and 1 1/2's you can go 2 high for 64. Singles you can go 3 high for 96. 

If the bees are light I have gone 3 high with 1 1/2's (96 hives) or 4 high with singles (128 hives) . If the colonies have much weight it it's too much load and top heavy.


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## Gregg (Dec 22, 2003)

Oops, sorry Dan, but what Bob N. said. I run 1 & 1/2's, so I haul 64 of those, but also could haul 64 double deeps, and could haul 96 or 128 singles, but would have to be pretty light to haul 128.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

How many hives are you hoping to run, Joel? I have an F-450 Superduty Diesel, 4WD w/ a bed long enough to carry 5 rows of 4 way bee pallets which comes to 80 2 story colonies. As you probably already know I pay a trucking company to haul my bees south for me. I haul whatever bees there are that don't fit on the semi and the Bobcat on the trailer.

Over the years many of my friends have tried to haul their own south and most have found that to make the trip worthwhile they are better off paying someone else to haul all, or most, of their hives for them. 

A few, 2 exactly, haul all of their own. One is Dale Morse, from near Watertown. He has a 3/4 ton pickup, a gooseneck trailer and a small skidder. He loads his trailer w/ single story colonies and loads the skidder on the front end of the trailer. Then he drives south to SC. I think he makes 2 trips. When he hauls them back in the spring he splits them in NY. There is another guy I know who wants, or wanted, to do the same thing. But last Nov. when he got his new trailer he found that his truck wouldn't even haul it home empty unless he was in a low gear. Something wrong there, though I'm not sure what.

The other guy is Jon MacDonald who has a Freightliner semi 10 wheeler w/ a sleeper cab for his motel and a 24 foot (I think) trailer. Dual wheels all around. This works out well for him.

So, my recommendation is to either go big, ala semi 10 wheeler, or go w/ the 15,000 lb gross F-450 size truck and pay for long haul transportation. I can give you some numbers if you need them.

Chuck Kutik is sorta in between w/ a small Freightliner and still paying a trucking company to haul the bees long distance. This works well for him too.

Just keep in mind that whatever truck/trailer combo you settle on it won't be perfect for everything. Sometimes the smaller truck should have been bigger and you'll have to make another trip to pick up a few hives. And sometimes the bigger truck is alot more than needed for such a small load. Such is life.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Dan Williamson said:


> Gregg.
> 
> Forgive my ignorance. Are those double deeps or singles on the pallets?
> 
> Thanks.


Double deeps on mine


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

Joel writes:
My Kids are coming home to join (rejoin) the business in the next year

tecumseh thinking out loud writes:
now don't that have a sweet ring to it?

you can string an awfully long gooseneck on the back of a one ton truck. I think the longest I see here is maybe 35 foot... that's a lot of deck. I also drive a one ton (dodge cummins) and I give up a bit of hauling weight for the automotic transmission (which I think for most folks will give you a bit more maintance free miles). the owner's manual says I can pull 20000 pounds as a maximum operating load... you can add another ton with a standard transmission (but you will likely pay in transmission repairs for this tradeoff). Behind this I pull a 24 foot home made gooseneck with two 7000 lb axle. Not recently, but some years back, I pull 10000 lbs of payload right over the rocky mountains with no problems and passed a lot of vehicles on the up hill slope. It was good to have breaks on the downhill side (which is often times the physics problem that some folks miss).


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

Mark, we are running 200 for 2008 but need to get to 500 for 2009. We usually run 70 singles south and take honey supers for the spring flow and a few deeps with foundation to give us a head start on splits. We haul nucs back (200-300) at a time. We run for honey (the absolute hardest way to make money in bees) not pollinatiion so run singles most of the season, except for 2 queen units. In the spring we pull the honey load home the week we make nucs along with all the empty equipment. I am assuming pollination hives are expected to be 2 story? Our limiting factor is usually weight not space as we can fit 200 singles on the trailer but are running on 2 - 3000 lb axles. How many hives can be hauled on on semi load and how much is it costing? I would like to start fat singles back in the spring probably 500-600 since I would like to winter more south and get an earlier jump on the spring flow there and here. During the season I don't move much at all so don't want a big truck sitting idle for months.

"now don't that have a sweet ring to it?"

It sure does , my AF Sgt. is out in Jan 2009 and her husband says all she has talked about since they got married is getting back into the business. She and I started the whole Greenmarket quest when she was 17-18. Apparrently she is leading that charge and would like everyone home and working together. It's a reflection of kids leaving the farm, realizing how much we really had working and stuggling togther, seeing the world and coming full circle. Of course it's a long way from here to there and I have to make things happen to make it possible.

To run a gooseneck I'd need a 3rd truck since we use the half ton and the 1 ton double duty to haul bees when necessary and honey to market throught the season. I am assuming the once the goose neck is intstalled in the bed it would be a task to remove it for other use?


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## Allen Martens (Jan 13, 2007)

Joel said:


> To run a gooseneck I'd need a 3rd truck since we use the half ton and the 1 ton double duty to haul bees when necessary and honey to market throught the season. I am assuming the once the goose neck is intstalled in the bed it would be a task to remove it for other use?


You can install a hidden hitch where the ball folds away and gives you a clear deck. Can be used with half tons or flat decks.

My one ton has a shorter deck, so I just recessed the hitch ball into the deck and cover the hole if I want to use the deck. The recessed ball is a bit of pain when it comes to hitching up.

I mostly use a 3/4 ton and 20 foot gooseneck setup described here:

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=215685

If your yards are full of ruts and bumpy, a small skid steer would be a bit of a challenge. I go through some rough terrain but its slow going.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

My Subaru Baja will hold four hives with the tailgate open and bed extender down, or twenty five empty medium supers.


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## Troy (Feb 9, 2006)

As for the hitch being in the way of other things......

My advice is to get the new removable hitch. I got one for my truck and when removed it leaves just 4 nubs in the bed that are not really a problem. It is made by Reese and is called their signature series hitch.

Here is a picture of just the rails:

http://assets.iqestores.com/product_img/highres/30064.jpg

They install under the bed of the truck and only the 4 round things stick up thru the deck.

I bought both the gooseneck and 5th wheel hitches just to be sure I had whatever I need down the road. Both hitches just snap right on.


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

joel writes:
To run a gooseneck I'd need a 3rd truck since we use the half ton and the 1 ton double duty to haul bees when necessary and honey to market throught the season. I am assuming the once the goose neck is intstalled in the bed it would be a task to remove it for other use?

tecumseh replies:
a couple of post have suggested the hideaway ball which is a pretty good way to go. my set up is fairly low tech. it essentially consist of a 1/2 inch plate with four bolts (5/8" heat treated grade 9 bolts) that hold it to the truck frame. a large hole was burned (not quite in the center of the plate) that the ball sets in so it can be welded on both sides of the plate. the 'not quite center of the plate' is so the plate can be spun 180 degrees so that the ball can be position slightly ahead or behind the axle. depending on how the truck and trailer is loaded this can effect ride and turning (but is really a secondary concern). under significant load you would typically be running with the ball about 6" in front of the rear axle. I also have two large half rings welded to each side of the plate that make it a bit easier to manipulate by hand and acts as a place to hook up break away chains.

so to pull the gooseneck hitch for me requires that I remove four bolts, elevate the hitch on the trailer a bit more than usual and drive away. 

there are a lot of folks that pull smaller gooseneck trailers here with 3/4 ton trucks but a duelly sure makes the ride down the long highway with substantial load a bit easier.


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## YellowBee (Jan 22, 2008)

*Truck loading*



tecumseh said:


> Joel writes:
> My Kids are coming home to join (rejoin) the business in the next year
> 
> tecumseh thinking out loud writes:
> ...


My kids are coming down too to rejoin the bees, congratulations! I will be helping them move too. Have a great year! We have a 25' trailer for hauling its a quad tire. Low down to load and reload. Cheers, Les


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Joel,
For 200 I'd think that you could do most everything w/ a flatbed 3/4 ton pickup. Maybe a trailer would be needed for going south. Then when you've gotten up to 500 you might want to consider adding a bigger truck, a trailer and a skidder. Listen to what your body tells you it is willing to do. For about 10 years I ran more than 500 colonies w/ a flatbed Dodge 1Ton. Doing pollination w/ 400 colonies, loading and unloading all of those by hand by myself. Boy, did that get old. Then I got a Bobcat and that made things easier.

I envy you having Heather wanting to get back into beesness w/ you. I'm glad for you. We had donner w/ Charles and Megan yesterday. I got to see his new leg. It has a shock absorber and a spring where the ankle would be. I can't express how happy I was to see him walking unaided. If you didn't know he had an artificial leg you'd never be able to tell by the way he walked. Unless you were real observant and knowlegable.


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## greenbeekeeping (Feb 13, 2003)

I have a 97 f450 with a 14 foot bed. I haul 64 hives on 4ways. I used it last year and picked up 320 shallows and had room to stack higher.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

Mark, although we've never met I feel like we've been through alot together, Charles' outlook on life is true reflection of the strong upbringing he's had and support he's gotten from his family. I'm glad to hear he is getting whole physically and emotionally, I know it's been a long and rough ride for all of you. Wrote him awhile back, give he and his my best wishes. I hear what your saying about the body, at 49 I just can't do the 40+ hour trips, loading and unloading, trying to set up, clean up, inspect, pack and get home. This sure is a crazy business sometimes.

Thanks to all, a great deal of help and information. I love my F350 diesel and sounds like most are in the same size, idea range so I'm not too far off base. I rented a 24 footer one year to haul doubles back and did not enjoy much of the trip. if we get big enough to need a bigger rig I'll likely pay to have them trucked.


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## Dane Bramage (May 11, 2007)

*loading swinger on flatbed trailer*

I've got one contribution and one question for this thread.

Gooseneck hitch taking up truck bed: The best (but probably MOST expensive) solution I've found for this is the Pull-Rite SuperRails with gooseneck adapter. Pull 4 pins and the entire assembly comes out leaving 4 holes. I went with this because I have a shortbed and will, someday, also be installing the SuperGlide 5th hitch ~> superglide. I chose the 18K models. 

Question: I want to haul hives and a swinger on a gooseneck trailer exclusively (no room in bed ~> '07 Dodge Ram 3500 5.9L CTD 6-spd DRW 4WD MegaCab). What sort of ramp, tail, or tilt options are in use/available to accommodate loading the swinger on a flatbed/lowboy? 

TIA,
Dane


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## swarm_trapper (Jun 19, 2003)

buy a bobcat or a swinger with the forks that fold up i think they are called floating forks then with a swinger with the forks up it is exactly 102inches so you can load them side ways on a truck or trailer. all you need is ramps.


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## Dane Bramage (May 11, 2007)

swarm_trapper said:


> buy a bobcat or a swinger with the forks that fold up i think they are called floating forks then with a swinger with the forks up it is exactly 102inches so you can load them side ways on a truck or trailer. all you need is ramps.


Any kind of ramp would be sufficient? I was concerned about the width-spacing of track ramps, incline and "fold-over" (the corner transition from ramp to bed).


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## swarm_trapper (Jun 19, 2003)

not sure what you mean about corner spacing. Im talking about swingers or hummerbees now and i know they can climb up about any ramp you have shoot iv backed up to a trailer that was 8-10inches off the ground and it climbed right up. not sure what a bobcat can do


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## Dane Bramage (May 11, 2007)

Corner = "fold-over" (the corner transition from ramp to bed). If the angle is too much the vehicle could bottom-out on the edge. I imagine the swinger/hummerbee (& 4x4 vehicles) with their larger ground clearance would do better. A bobcat or car, probably not.

I think the ease of ramp-loading is one more + for the swinger.


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

I have a 1 ton dodge/cummins....used a 28 ft gooseneck which I could haul 144 hives plus swinger but that grossed out over 30,000. I consistantly hauled 96 colonies fairly long distances with swinger which would gross me out at between 25,000 and 28,000 depending on honey in colonies. With vacumn over hydrolic brakes stopping was NOT a problem(dual tandem with torsen springs). However plays havoc on transmissions. You can purchase a used Freigthtliner fl 70 or 80 as cheap as a 1 ton. I have a fl70 with sleeper(double bunk) and tag axl with air ride. I can haul 228 two story colonies and tag forklift behind me. No more worries about overloading. I actually loose less bees because of the air ride. My deck is 22 ft with a 24 ft you could haul another row(8 rows stacked 4 high either 1 1/2 or 2 story or 3 high with a deep super) You could also get a fl60 with a shorter deck. It doesnt take long to get ALOT of weight with bees and I believe a freightliner or international 4700 is a better way to go....cost is about same as a ton and you have a much heavier truck.....be sure to get air ride! I paid 11,000 for my freightliner.....cant find a good ton dually for that!


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## jjgbee (Oct 12, 2006)

*how many hives? How heavy are they?*

My truck was a Dodge one ton with a long wheel base and 10 ft bed. I used a Payne style loader that pinned to the rear of the bed and was quickly removable. I pulled a 10 ft bed 2 axle (3000# ea) trailer. Hauling 60 1 1/2 hives, my front axle wt was 5000# and rear axle was 10000#. This is absolute max on the tires. The trailer also carried 60 1 1/2 hives at a gross wt of 8000#. That gives me a combined weight of 23000#. One l arge load for a one ton. My hauls went across Highway patrol scales and i was never stopped for an unsafe load. If you are running for honey, I really liked the hive loader with 14 ft boom. You can split super without need of hand lifting the upper boxes. You can load stacks of honey onto the truck with ease. There was discussion of removable ball. On my truck, I installed nut plates under the wood deck and attached to the frame. A Reese 5th wheel hitch bolted to these nut plates. With my quick removable loader off the truck, I used the flat bed to pull my 5th wheel RV. My bed was only 36 in above ground. The newer chassis are real hard to get a low bed on. Chassis builders don't want to go to the extra trouble to build a low bed, but it is worth every penny.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

Ok, now I guess this has raised the next question. What kind of power plants are you guys running with these loads?

I have a 1993 - F-350, crew cab long bed, 4WD with a crate 7.3 diesel (international, installed 1997, 130K now). The truck is 6400 lbs tare, the trailer is 6,000 lbs gross and I usually have about 2,000 lbs on the truck. It does fine on the highway but pulling the long hills is a challenge. I'm looking at under 15,000 lbs. Gross. If I added the bobcat I'd have to get out and push on the steep ones?


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## jjgbee (Oct 12, 2006)

I pulled 23000# loads over the grape vine 6% and hot. Engine 175 hp cummins. In 1959 my dad pulled 79000# (standard load) over that same hill with 265 hp. The answer is. Settle into a gear that works and stay out of the way of the Big boys 650hp. It is all relevant. 650hp will take 79k up the grapevine in 15 minutes and 350 will haul 79k to the top in 18 min. In 1950 we walked next to the truck or stood out on the running board where it was cooler.


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

my understanding joel is that the cummins engine come out of the factory at about 175 hp but that you could tweak the fuel pump (now days I would guess you would just change a computer chip) to get 600 hp from the same motor. keeping the motor attached to the frame would be a bit difficult at that hp rating.

as someone else suggested the weak link is likely to be the transmission... and for those that do spike the hp or load over manufactures spec that is likely to be the component that fails first.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

The diesel trail is a new one for me. The 7.3 is rated at 250 HP. I just haven't gotten used to the torque vs speed aspect of it yet.


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

Joel..Dont want to hurt your feelings...but I cll a powerstroke a power joke....they work really well until something goes wrong then hard to fix! especially the new models.....all that said my 98 cummins is a 12 valve....so I put on a differant fuel plate and added a big air intake with pyro meter to watch temp and i now am pushing over 400 hp. I can pull anything I put behind it with no problem other than a transmission every 3 years! LOL


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## jjgbee (Oct 12, 2006)

the current dodge cummins are 310 hp. My 2000 dodge was stock 230 hp. Even that is a lot of hp for a small chassis. I wore half the rubber off my rear tires on a trip to Alaska with a fifth wheel with 1500# hitch weight. On the steep grades, I was applying to much throttle and was getting wheel spin.


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## jjgbee (Oct 12, 2006)

To Suttonman Install a oil temp gauge in your trans (stik or auto), and drive by trans temp. Temps above 250f will cook your oil. Find a lower gear and back off throttle. Also< I like a Turbo boost guage over a pyrometer. Mail the throttle on a hard pull. That is your total boost. Full HP. Now TRY not to drive at over 80% full boost. Boost guage will tell if you have a fuel filter problem starting or a turbo waste gate that may be sticking.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

"Joel..Dont want to hurt your feelings...but I cll a powerstroke a power joke"

I'm not running a powerstroke

"I can pull anything I put behind it with no problem other than a transmission every 3 years! LOL"

Been there with every Chevy truck I own. The 700-R-4 and later the 4L60E were great trannys, in a corvette! We had our last one super built with the Gorilla Sun Shell, shift kit and gas saver package. Of course my son now has that, has just droped a cowl induction hood on it and is in the process of turning it into a teenage money pit! He' recently commandeered our suburban for the 350 rebuild he want to do. It's great to see a teenager turned on by cars and bees not drugs and beer. 

My F-350 had a crated 1993 International engine installed in 1997, this was the last Ini Ford Engine. Had the banks turbo installed orginally but not in the rebuild. I've looked at the Dodge but everyone is telling me (on the new ones) the trannys don't hold up. Likely do another rebuild on the one I got when the time comes, the word is the cheapest vehicle you'll ever own is the one you have!


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