# False claims/USDA organic/Adultered honey



## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

this "catch the buzz" is also worth a read:
http://home.ezezine.com/1636/1636-2009.06.26.13.19.archive.html

of course it's the nhb telling us that supermarket honey is the same as "farmers market honey"...ie, there is no difference between factory production as a byproduct of pollination (which is full of HFCS), and stationary honey production. of course there is some overlap here, but this is the NHB in reality, promoting cheap, imported honey.

my favorite part, however, is this:



> Anywhere from 30-percent to 40-percent of frequent honey users believe that other sweeteners, water, or even oils are added to pure honey once it is extracted from the comb.


as we all know that sweeteners and oils are usually added to the honey _before_ it is extracted from the comb.

it's always been my understanding that large packers do add water to low moisture content honey...is this not the case?

deknow


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

I think the packers buy honey that is high in moisture and blen it into thicker honey to get the 18%.


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## indypartridge (Nov 18, 2004)

deknow said:


> ... the NHB in reality, promoting cheap, imported honey.


Not surprising, since the USDA disbanded the original National Honey Board last year and replaced it with the Packer-Importer Board, which kept the "National Honey Board" name.
Read the last paragraph:
http://www.honey.com/about/


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

deknow said:


> as we all know that sweeteners and oils are usually added to the honey _before_ it is extracted from the comb.
> 
> it's always been my understanding that large packers do add water to low moisture content honey...is this not the case?
> 
> deknow


"as we all know"? I'm not sure what you are saying here. Are you saying that the bees add "sweetners and oil" to honey before it is capped? Otherwise how would anything be added to honey before it is extracted?

No, I don't think that large packers add water to low moisture honey, but, so what if they did? Would that make it adulterated? Since there is a certain amount of H2O in honey.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Beeslave said:


> This article is a littled outdated but is a good read.
> 
> http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2157595/posts


So, what is your position on U.S. produced honey that is labeled Organic? I question any honey that is labeled such. Who certifies it Organic? What are the requirements to be able to label honey Organic?


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

um, i don't think the bees bring in the thymol, menthol, or fgmo....nor are they bringing in the HFCS and sucrose. ditto with fluvalinate and coumahpos.

deknow


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

sqkcrk said:


> So, what is your position on U.S. produced honey that is labeled Organic? I question any honey that is labeled such. Who certifies it Organic? What are the requirements to be able to label honey Organic?


i don't think organic is a useful label for honey. those who sell organic honey are banking on the fact that consumers assume this is somehow "purer" than other honey, and certainly that the bees are treated "natually".

the requirements vary from state to state, certifier to certifier, and country to country. in general they allow for thymol, formic acid, and feeding with certified organic sugar.

deknow


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

deknow said:


> um, i don't think the bees bring in the thymol, menthol, or fgmo....nor are they bringing in the HFCS and sucrose. ditto with fluvalinate and coumahpos.
> 
> deknow


And you find these in honey on the shelf or at your farmers market? Perhaps low levels of coumaphos and/or fluvalinate, but the others?


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## Lil Grain of Rice (Jul 30, 2009)

sqkcrk said:


> And you find these in honey on the shelf or at your farmers market? Perhaps low levels of coumaphos and/or fluvalinate, but the others?


Organic certification usually means more than just the produce being free from pollutants. Certification also requires farmers to use farming practices that are organic, irrespective of whether or not any artificial substances, or disallowed natural substances, can be found in the produce.

The consumer who wants organic produce tends to want not only the highest quality product, but wants to know the farmer is farming in a manner that is consistent with the organic ideology.

Organic honey then should not only be produced by bees that are sufficiently distant from any sources of pollutants, but also should be kept without the use of chemical treatments.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

Lil Grain of Rice said:


> The consumer who wants organic produce tends to want not only the highest quality product, but wants to know the farmer is farming in a manner that is consistent with the organic ideology.


reality check here. a few states have organic standards for honey...the national one has been in draft form for years and doesn't exist as a standard. therefore, certification agenices mostly certify to their own interpretation of what they think the standard should be....and they of course make more money the more operations they certify. it isn't uncommon for an agency in nebraska to certify honey coming out of argentena. these products display the USDA Organic label, even though the usda, nor its standards are in any way involved in determining if it is certified organic.

the vast majority of organic produce (honey or otherwise) has nothing to do with any sort of organic ideaology.



> Organic honey then should not only be produced by bees that are sufficiently distant from any sources of pollutants, but also should be kept without the use of chemical treatments.


aside from how the organic beekeeping list uses the term, there is no organic standard that prohibits chemical treatments in honey, produce, or any other product.

deknow


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