# Black Honey Bees ??



## valleyman (Nov 24, 2009)

Looks like to me there was a German bee drone in the wood yard when your queen went on her mating flight. They are smaller, black, meaner,and are supposed to be survivors. I don't think they are really good honey producers.


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## Buzzy Bee (Apr 18, 2011)

I used to have one or to black honey bee's to. But u got to keep in mind i have buckfast bee's so who knows what genetics i got  

They have gotten rare as i re-queen and split my hives. 

I still have them though. 

Haven't noticed any difference in behavior from the others though.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

I saw a few in among my carniolans earlier this year. I wonder if they aren't just as someone else suggested, the result of the promiscuous mating of virgins on their mating flights. They are notably smaller.


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## Peaches (Jun 8, 2011)

Kinda looks like a dirt dobber. Not for sure. Look how the abdomen is kind of separated sorta like a yellow jacket. hummm More research.


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## lazy shooter (Jun 3, 2011)

May be slave bees captured by natives of Chad and shipped all over Europe for cash.


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

LOL @ LS! 
Its normal. I see it from time to time. You can see anything from solid yellow to solid black in a hive. There is no need to speculate; there is no way to know. 
Peaches, it is not a dirt dobber. Please know what you are saying before you say it!
mike


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## fish_stix (May 17, 2009)

Due to the fact that queens mate with many drones on their mating flights, there are almost always off-colored bees in a hive. Nothing to worry over! When we had Russian queens we had mostly dark bees but some emerged yellow-striped like Italians. And some of the Russian queens were as yellow as any Italian.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

Kingfisher, you have early onset old farts disease. a GRUMPY OLD MAN so young! Lot of that around here. People bring there ignorance here to be removed not ridiculed. Gently! Gently! I need to listen to that myself.


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## lazy shooter (Jun 3, 2011)

Your Queen is a hussy. Sheeesh


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

Vance G said:


> Kingfisher, you have early onset old farts disease. a GRUMPY OLD MAN so young! Lot of that around here. People bring there ignorance here to be removed not ridiculed. Gently! Gently! I need to listen to that myself.


I am not grumpy. Jaseempt dubbed me a realist. I also work in the heat all day long. I am really tired this time of year. I was not ridiculing anyone. It bothers me when people say stuff just to say stuff.
mike


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## valleyman (Nov 24, 2009)

vance g said:


> kingfisher, you have early onset old farts disease. A grumpy old man so young! Lot of that around here. People bring there ignorance here to be removed not ridiculed. Gently! Gently! I need to listen to that myself.


amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Desert Viking Ranch (Mar 1, 2011)

I guess I should have clarified, I wasn't worried at all - just curious. I thought the bees were kind of cool. I must say, the humor in this thread is great!


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## Desert Viking Ranch (Mar 1, 2011)

Kingfisher Apiaries said:


> LOL @ LS!
> Its normal. I see it from time to time. You can see anything from solid yellow to solid black in a hive. There is no need to speculate; there is no way to know.
> Peaches, it is not a dirt dobber. Please know what you are saying before you say it!
> mike


I don't think Peaches was saying it _was_ a dirt dobber, but resembles it. I have to agree that the abdomen did appear much more separated on the black bees than the "regulars"


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

Ok sorry folks. Ive done it again. I will quit being a well...you know.
mike


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## geebob (Apr 4, 2011)

Does anyone think it looks like a solitary bee, maybe genus Andrena? No idea what it would be doing in a hive, but what do I know...


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## Rick 1456 (Jun 22, 2010)

Just my observation, I don't see pollen baskets Some Genus of Mason/Solitary Bee. Doesn't make sense they are in they hive, but that is what it looks like to me.


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

I see some..they just are not full.
mike


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## Rick 1456 (Jun 22, 2010)

Yep, Missed it on the first photo. I guess they are just negative albinos


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## Bendbill (Apr 21, 2013)

Put my runner board out to clean before the new bees arrive and had some visitors.


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## SunnyR2000 (May 9, 2012)

Off topic: Doesn't it look like a queen may have emerged from one of those queen cells? There is a cell hinge at the bottom.


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## Slow Drone (Apr 19, 2014)

I doubt that it's a German black bee.Normal as Kingfisher says.Normal for me I run ItalianxCarniolan and Russian,Carniolan,Italian cross.I see them all the time.I notice when I cross either Russians or Carniolans I get quit a few dark bees such as you are seeing.


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## green2btree (Sep 9, 2010)

I think it might be the angle of the photo that is making her look slightly wasp waisted. Also, as bees age their fuzz wears away making them look darker, so if she was dark to begin with and old she will look even blacker. Thinking about it, her lack of fuzz would also make her look more wasp waisted.

JC


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## iivydriff (Apr 20, 2011)

Ive got black bees like that in some of my hives. Top left of the pic


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## kicker326 (Jun 25, 2014)

I have a ton of them in my Hives. I have Italians and Kona's. Here is the thing that is interesting to me about them. I have been stung by them a few times, each time I have a severe local reaction to them, some of which the swelling has lasted over a month, which i am currently experiencing. The normal honey bees I get stung by every now and again I have little to no local reaction too, so I am thinking there is something different about them then just the color. 100% of the black bee sting have had the same bad reaction of severe swelling and with it pain. I have never once had the same reaction from a normal colored honey bee. I am pretty new to bee keeping so if some you more experienced folks might know why that happens I would love to know why. My doctor doesn't seem to have any answer for it except to tell me to find another hobby, which is not going to happen. Thanks in advance to any answers forth coming.

( a few observations about these black bees I have made, they are more aggressive, they are faster then the others, though some are the same size as the regular colored bees (mostly smaller) the stingers are considerable smaller, a fraction of the size, curved in almost a half circle and a harder denser composition. and obviously able to sting through bee suits easily)


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## Sarge (Jun 26, 2006)

I have a hive full of them. Mine are ferals from a swarm some 6 years ago, and what has been said is true. They are more protective, the sting gets more of a reaction, and in my case they produce honey like there is no tomorrow.


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## kicker326 (Jun 25, 2014)

Thank you for the reply. I guess before I thought all honey bee stings were the same but quickly learned that is not true. We have a lot of them and me saying they make me a little nervous is an understatement, the last stings were pretty bad. Extra honey is a added bonus. I started beekeeping because my 7 year old daughter learned in school that all of them were dying and wanted to save them. So of course I did what any father would do and went over board and now we have 8 hives. Thanks again for taking time to reply.


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## Jackam (Jun 3, 2013)

I was just noticing the darker colored bees in one of my hives today!


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## Scpossum (May 4, 2014)

I have them too.


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## kicker326 (Jun 25, 2014)

You can see these have some of the darker bees and 1 black one but he is buried in other bees about mid way down on the left center. I will take some pics today. The ones i am talking about are like pure black not just a darker version of the honey bee. I will try and take some pictures of them today. They are really cool looking they're just nasty little suckers with a really bad attitude. They like to dive bomb the mesh on the veil.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

If it's solid black and fuzzy it's just genetics. If it's solid black and shiny but healthy, it probably got it's hair pulled out robbing. If it's solid black and shiny and crawling on the ground, it is probably diseased... one of the paralysis viruses would be the likely culprit in that case.


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## kicker326 (Jun 25, 2014)

Thank you so much for taking the time to respond, I have listened to alot of your lectures and most of my knowledge base is from them. So I will consider this question answered for my part anyway. I am really hoping I don't have sick bees. They seem to be very healthy and the hives are growing by leaps and bounds, but i have been feeding and the hives are in close proximity to each other so maybe they are fighting and pulling hair. I was hoping to be able to get a few pictures of my lil meanies but we have been having a monsoon today and they seem to be even grouchier on rainy days. Mr. Bush I am hoping some day you will consider doing one of your seminars in the Punta Gorda Area someday soon as I would really enjoy attending with my 7 year old daughter. Thank you all for your pleasant and helpful responses.


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## HONEYDEW (Mar 9, 2007)

yeah what Michael said, check out this https://secure.fera.defra.gov.uk/beebase/index.cfm?pageid=275&video=02


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## kicker326 (Jun 25, 2014)

Thank you for that, very interesting. I am very new to bee keeping and I have bees from 3 different sources, 2 hives from Georgia, 2 from Hawaii and 2 from Florida. I know that 1 of them seem to be darker than the others. I have Konas, Italian and Russian I think, its the Russians that are darker but i can't be sure. They don't seem to be shiny or sick but again I am new so my knowledge is limited. My mentor has been telling me how and when to to treat them and with what. If you all don't mind i will post some pics and maybe you all can see something I am missing.


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## kicker326 (Jun 25, 2014)

Ya thats a good picture and looks very similar to the ones that i am seeing but they are not that big or that shiny but black just like that. Mr. Bush and Honey dew both posted some great info regarding these bees a little further down in the thread. Thanks for that great pic.


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## kicker326 (Jun 25, 2014)

Sorry put that reply in the wrong spot, not sure how to delete it


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## bbruff22 (Dec 24, 2013)

I come here to learn. On this thread I've learned and laughed. This thread is awesome!


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I am really hoping I don't have sick bees. They seem to be very healthy and the hives are growing by leaps and bounds

Then they are healthy. I only mentioned the paralysis issue in case you have crawling bees, that can be a cause. One of the causes is that they lose their hair...

>Mr. Bush I am hoping some day you will consider doing one of your seminars in the Punta Gorda Area someday soon as I would really enjoy attending with my 7 year old daughter. 

I'll be about 2 1/2 hours from there this fall Oct 4:
http://beekeepingconference.com/schedule-of-events.html


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## kicker326 (Jun 25, 2014)

Thank you Mr. Bush we will love to come down and listen to you speak. I will get signed up. Thanks again for all of your help, here and the other places you make your knowledge accessible. It's really nice to have information available to help a person get to the next level of bee keeping. As with any living entity on our farm, there is a lot of responsibility in providing the best possible care for them and to achieve that level of care its essential to increase ones knowledge.


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## dynemd (Aug 27, 2013)

I see a smaller black bee there without antennae.


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## Santa Caras (Aug 14, 2013)

dynemd said:


> I see a smaller black bee there without antennae.
> View attachment 12430


LOL!! If this had sound I'm sure you'd hear a lil voice going
"Help meee! Helpppp meeeeeeee!"


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

A swarm I caught earlier this year had many bees that looked like this. Unfortunately... no queen.


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## Backyarder (Mar 25, 2014)

Saw quite a few of these girls orientating this afternoon. Maybe 10% of the hive looks this dark. 









And here's a picture of their mama









They were a 3 lb package sold to me as new world carniolans. 
I'm new and have no idea what they "should" look like.  I'm just happy they are building like crazy and building halfway straight comb in their Topbar.


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## lazy shooter (Jun 3, 2011)

I've never seen a bee that black, but I keep bees in Texas, and I don't think there is much if any Carniolans here. The good news is they are building comb like crazy in a top bar hive. Keep us posted on their temperament. If they are not hot, they're as good as it gets.


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## Backyarder (Mar 25, 2014)

Started 6 hives this year, these are the only package bees we've purchased the other 5 are local swarms. So far my wife and I have one sting a piece. I don't have much to gauge against but they are no more aggressive than the others.


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## kicker326 (Jun 25, 2014)

I just got stung again by one of those little suckers right in the ear ouch. Maybe its just luck of the draw but of my last 5 stings 4 of them have been from those little black ones. The others seem very docile. I took these pics of Godzilla (my daughter names the queens) and not one bee got aggressive, opened the other hive and only the little black one dive bombed me. They sure seem to hurt alot more too but maybe its just me.


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## Nkwazi (Jun 13, 2014)

Just thought I'd mention that one of my hives is relatively aggressive (compared to the other three) and after several inspections I finally found the queen and she is almost completely black. Production wise they're outstripping the other three hives.


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## S4 basics (Mar 15, 2014)

Just thought to mention that back in May (posted 5-23-2014) I photographed large numbers of these guys. Have tried to find home hive, still looking. The photo is on that post. So far caught two swarms in that area but not the blackies.


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## mbevanz (Jul 23, 2012)

Sarge, how many queens in this colony in 6 years? any idea?


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## HONEYDEW (Mar 9, 2007)

Backyarder, that is one nice looking queen. In my experience FWIW the darker bees have always been "hotter" than the lighter bees, but they always have less problems just my experience... enjoy


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## Pinchecharlie (May 14, 2014)

My nuc's were very light golden colored this spring, was told they were carnolian hybred? They are becoming blacker and blacker as the season progresses and the drones are black as night and really big, they look like mutant horse flies lol! Not mean though. Makes you wonder what mother natures up too, must be a reason. Just an observation from a née beekeeper.


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## josethayil (Jul 17, 2008)

Some Carniolans


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## Backyarder (Mar 25, 2014)

Honeydew, this hive seems to be pretty calm. They are also my only Topbar hive, the others are one horizontal Lang and 4 langstroth hives.
The topbar style inspections, only having one bar open at a time, may make them stay calmer than the others. 
We've been really lucky with nice bees. From 6 hives only 4 stings between 3 people. 
One purchased package and 5 swarms. All 5 swarm queens are various shades of golden color. I was told most feral colonies around here are probably Italian lineage. 
The important thing to me is at least two of those swarms came from a feral hive I know has been there for at least 2 years. Hopefully that makes them survivors.


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