# ...so whats being done about hive theft?



## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

The one thing that can put hobbyist minds at ease it that the hives that are stolen for the most part are palletized. 

I use to loose a few nucs every year, I believe it is because they are small and easy to abscond with allowing the crooks to get in and out quickly.

I live in the boonies and have bear problems. So I simply took my bear fence one step further.

They are solar powered, and they all cannot be turned off from outside the enclosure. They are way beyond the average fencer and produce an intolerable amount of voltage. they will literally throw a 1 1/2 spark, Now understand these enclosures are on private property and someone has to cross additional gated fences that are well posted. when they reach the hive enclosure they find these signs. If they choose to test them it is up to them!

View attachment 22938
View attachment 22938


----------



## warrior (Nov 21, 2005)

Just my thinking but until the buyer is penalized severely there will always be a willing seller that has no morals.

In the case of almonds maybe honest beeks and brokers need to let a few folks go without bees for a season or so.


----------



## ABruce (Dec 27, 2013)

Tenbears said:


> The one thing that can put hobbyist minds at ease it that the hives that are stolen for the most part are palletized.
> 
> I use to loose a few nucs every year, I believe it is because they are small and easy to abscond with allowing the crooks to get in and out quickly.
> 
> ...


----------



## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

I make my own using 555 timers BT151 SCR, Tip122 a hand full of Caps, diodes and resistors, And of course transformers! The appropriate use of transformers = unlimited output. But one has to understand how they equate to amperage or they can easily become deadly.


----------



## timgoodin (Mar 10, 2007)

Tenbears said:


> I make my own using 555 timers BT151 SCR, Tip122 a hand full of Caps, diodes and resistors, And of course transformers! The appropriate use of transformers = unlimited output. But one has to understand how they equate to amperage or they can easily become deadly.


Do you have schematic available somewhere? Would like to build my own, I have bought so many at the local farm outlets that burn out after 6 months or so. Hard to keep the horses and goats in the field.


----------



## johnbeejohn (Jun 30, 2013)

i think it would deter most but if i really wanted to i would take a big stick and smash that electric fence down if someone is a thief not much you can do to stop them you have to get granny from the bev. hillbillys to guard it like her shine still rocking chair and double barrel 
old timer what does it cost you to make these fence chargers


----------



## timgoodin (Mar 10, 2007)

johnbeejohn said:


> i think it would deter most but if i really wanted to i would take a big stick and smash that electric fence down if someone is a thief not much you can do to stop them you have to get granny from the bev. hillbillys to guard it like her shine still rocking chair and double barrel
> old timer what does it cost you to make these fence chargers


Good point, a metal conductor to ground would short it out in short order.


----------



## johnbeejohn (Jun 30, 2013)

the number 1 thing i do to deter theft is text landowners EVERY time i go to yard and they know if i do not text and they see someone near bees they are not to be there and i try to locate yard in view of there house a retired farmer best security i have found


----------



## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

Last week I spent another 1000 bucks on GPS satellite trackers and service. Placed one unit within one hive in each field of the bees we brought from Florida. Sent a link to the owner of the bees yesterday. Every day I get a text and email with there location and if they move I will know within a minute. Both he an I can drag up their current location in a minute online anywhere with internet service. 

This will take a big chunk out of our placement cut but the fact that if the bees walk their owner will get his property back is of great consolation on my part.


----------



## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

How big of a chunk if you don't mind me asking.

Jean-Marc


----------



## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

johnbeejohn said:


> i think it would deter most but if i really wanted to i would take a big stick and smash that electric fence down if someone is a thief not much you can do to stop them you have to get granny from the bev. hillbillys to guard it like her shine still rocking chair and double barrel
> old timer what does it cost you to make these fence chargers


You would need a mighty big stick to smash down 48 inch welded 4 gauge wire hog panels, And before you got many hives loaded the fence failure alarm would have already dialed my cell phone with the yard code. And I would be on my way, Drilling in hand! Note nothing in the process requires power from an on grid source. I do not simply want to detour the hard core thieves, I want to catch them!


----------



## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

timgoodin said:


> Do you have schematic available somewhere? Would like to build my own, I have bought so many at the local farm outlets that burn out after 6 months or so. Hard to keep the horses and goats in the field.


 I do have schematics, Both for the solar charger controller and the fencer, the solar controller is no problem, But be advised the fencer could be dangerous if not properly managed and or erected and used. you will need some electronics background as well as some specific tools. an oscilloscope is necessary, as if you do not keep the frequency at around 100 cycles it will heat the Tip122 to appoint where it will unsolder the connection. even with heat syncs.


----------



## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

jean-marc said:


> How big of a chunk if you don't mind me asking.
> 
> Jean-Marc


A big chunk. Close to 10% of our gross take. The biggest benefit to us besides the peace of mind knowing that the borrowed bees are being monitored is that we will have use of the trackers in our own yards the rest of the year "subsidized" by this upfront expense of "guarding" the other bees while they are in the almonds. Win/ Win..............????


----------



## BeeBop (Apr 23, 2015)

Tenbears said:


> I do have schematics, Both for the solar charger controller and the fencer, the solar controller is no problem, But be advised the fencer could be dangerous if not properly managed and or erected and used. you will need some electronics background as well as some specific tools. an oscilloscope is necessary, as if you do not keep the frequency at around 100 cycles it will heat the Tip122 to appoint where it will unsolder the connection. even with heat syncs.


Oooh, share schematics please! I've got oscilloscopes. And some electronics background. 

I'm especially curious what your transformer of choice is. And I guess I'm curious why you're using a TIP122. That seems so.. 70's. And Darlingtons have such an enormous Vbe...


----------



## Joe Hillmann (Apr 27, 2015)

Honey-4-All said:


> Last week I spent another 1000 bucks on GPS satellite trackers and service. Placed one unit within one hive in each field of the bees we brought from Florida. Sent a link to the owner of the bees yesterday. Every day I get a text and email with there location and if they move I will know within a minute. Both he an I can drag up their current location in a minute online anywhere with internet service.
> 
> This will take a big chunk out of our placement cut but the fact that if the bees walk their owner will get his property back is of great consolation on my part.



How many people know which hive in each place is the one with the tracker?


----------



## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

Joe Hillmann said:


> How many people know which hive in each place is the one with the tracker?


Right now that would be myself, my son, the beek who owns the bees and anyone he has shared the link I provides him with. I also shared the latitude and longitude coordinates with the broker who helped sell the deal. She had another beekeeper have 400 of his hives heisted a week before the bees were to go to the almonds. At a minimum thats at least three parties who lost a big pile of dough because no one was willing to pitch 200 bucks into the insurance fund.


----------



## johnbeejohn (Jun 30, 2013)

hog panels that is no joke have u had hives stolen before tenbears


----------



## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

johnbeejohn said:


> hog panels that is no joke have u had hives stolen before tenbears


 No! All this is actually for bear protection, Pa will only pay reparation for bear damage once. Even if you follow their fence mandates. I really am not in the business of selling off my hives so I do not want reparation anyhow. After loosing hive on 3 separate occasions I have made it my mission to keep the buggers at bay. At least Until the third week of November


----------



## hex0rz (Jan 14, 2014)

what about some sort of migratory pallet that is designed in such a way that will either keep a thief from or slow them down. Something that keeps them from taking individual boxes and also prevents them from forklifting or picking it.


----------



## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

hex0rz said:


> what about some sort of migratory pallet that is designed in such a way that will either keep a thief from or slow them down. Something that keeps them from taking individual boxes and also prevents them from forklifting or picking it.


That's it. A padlock on every hive. Moving bees around at sort time just became more fun than ever. NOT!


----------



## hex0rz (Jan 14, 2014)

I don't suppose demanding the almond orchards to build cyclone fence cages with hot wire and razor wire for each set of hives is out of the question then?


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

In ME, while in blueberries, every set of hives is fenced against bears. And some of those are actually inside chain link enclosures.


----------



## hex0rz (Jan 14, 2014)

Does the foraging range of bees in an orchard for pollination change? Will they still forage a 2-3 mile radius? Is the dispersion of hives in an orchard something the grower demands or is it a mutual thing with the beekeeper based on fact rather than feel good thoughts?


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

hex0rz, my sources tell me that the majority of the thefts are from the staging yds, not the orchards. Makes sense. Two, three or four semi loads in one place all close together, instead of a cpl pallets here, a cpl pallets there on a farm where some worker might notice you.


----------



## Joe Hillmann (Apr 27, 2015)

sqkcrk said:


> In ME, while in blueberries, every set of hives is fenced against bears. And some of those are actually inside chain link enclosures.



In that case who's responsibility is it to put up the fences? The grower or the beekeeper? If it is the beekeeper is the pollination fee on blueberries higher to make up for the extra work of putting up the fences?


----------



## Joe Hillmann (Apr 27, 2015)

Honey-4-All said:


> That's it. A padlock on every hive. Moving bees around at sort time just became more fun than ever. NOT!


If they are stealing them with forklifts simply chaining the pallets together in pairs would slow them down. If they picked up one pallet the other would drag with it. Or in an orchard chaining them to a tree. It wouldn't stop them. They could simply break the pallets, cut the chains, pick the locks or move the hives onto their own pallets. But all of those options take time and work and planning ahead to have the necessary tools and may be just enough to send the thieves onto easier pickings. 

Although it wouldn't be cheap to do. If you had 500 hive you would need 250 two to three foot lengths of chain and locks. And you would probably want to go with hardened chain and locks otherwise they could be cut easily with a bolt cutters.


----------



## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

I bet they already have a boltcutter they use on the gate chain or lock. Would only slow them seconds. A paint bomb that blows when a pallet was moved might be fun.


----------



## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Game cameras..my yards each have at least two..hidden well. Also gives temp readings, date, time, etc. They recently caught a guy on the quad driving back and forth a few times. Yard is on private property behind a locked gate. Luckily that guy was authorized to be there, but his images allowed me to check with land owner and if there had been a problem, would have allowed me to give the evidence to the authorities.

Any hives messed with by man or beast gets recorded. No issues for me yet. It's fascinating to see the wildlife that is attracted to the area by the hives. Have tons of photos of various critters.


----------



## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)

I have game cameras in every yard, too. Those send me an MMS and or e-mail in the second someone moves into sight. So I can alarm the landowners nearby, I also like the retired farmer type.

It was interesting for me to see, how many people you find even in remote locations.


----------



## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

So is this thread to stop thieves or bears. They have different reasons. 

Bears I say Kill them 12 gauge slugs do it nicely. Thieves: we need to do what the old timers did with cattle rustlers. 

Oh that is the same as the bear answer. I guess if you find them it was self defense.


----------



## high rate of speed (Jan 4, 2008)

It's called the 3 s,s..........


----------



## hex0rz (Jan 14, 2014)

Hmm, you must live in wolf country too!


----------



## hex0rz (Jan 14, 2014)

If the majority of these hive thefts are occurring in holding yards, then I would think thieves would be more predictable. Sounds like a proactive approach needs to be done to secure the yards from thieves. Especially if these are yards used many times a year every year.

The sky is the limit with that type of security...


----------



## warrior (Nov 21, 2005)

I know it wouldn't stop the determined but it would slow things down for them.

http://www.minntrapprod.com/mobile/MB-Chain-Stakes-Original-dozen/productinfo/CSORIG-12/

Sink one of these under a pallet and padlock the sucker. I've seen these ground stakes hold a Silverado in place. I know because I drive a Silverado.


----------



## johnbeejohn (Jun 30, 2013)

very good idea warrior them things are very strong


----------



## Brian Suchan (Apr 6, 2005)

There is no practicality what so ever in that. Your taking something that gets moved around and making it fixed.. What happens when the yank the hives right off the cllips and leave the pallets?


----------



## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

Brian Suchan said:


> There is no practicality what so ever in that. Your taking something that gets moved around and making it fixed.. What happens when the yank the hives right off the cllips and leave the pallets?


inch:

Bee thieves new entrance requirement?: 

BYOP...... Bring your own Pallet


----------



## warrior (Nov 21, 2005)

Like I said it wouldn't stop the determined and there are times it wouldn't be practical but sometimes it's a case of making it to much bother for them to fool with.


----------



## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

From what I've seen, the spectacular losses, especially of bees on the almonds, is thefts by the truckload. 

Cellular tracking devices are out there. This is the tip of the iceberg: http://www.brickhousesecurity.com/c...ack+an+Asset&pp=12&sortby=ourPicksAscend&cx=0

The prices are not attractive for individual hives, but a few sprinkled in an apiary or among hives working a particular field might be cost effective against wholesale thieves.


----------



## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

The main problem is, people are very good problem solvers. Sure, you can put GPS tracking or Cell tracking in. But I'm betting you can rig easy detectors for cell and gps signal detecting, pretty soon all those pallets get left behind. You can try securing pallets or hives better, but a 18v grinder will take care of most of that in seconds. The best deterrent is getting good pictures and identifying the equipment used in the theft and being able to track the scum down.


----------



## warrior (Nov 21, 2005)

Just spitballing here but how about this.

A length of cable, 1/2" - 3/4", with a loop crimped on each end. Drill a hole in the three pallet stringers, centered. Thread the cable through as many pallets as length allows. Padlocks through the loops. Ties several pallets together.
Again it won't stop the truly criminally bent but it is a somewhat quick fix.


----------



## warrior (Nov 21, 2005)

BTW, as a former army engineer booby trapping has always been fun to me. If legal issues weren't a concern punji pits and C4 would be very useful.


----------



## warrior (Nov 21, 2005)

Then there's this option.

http://www.minntrapprod.com/mobile/Bear-Traps/products/552/


----------



## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

warrior said:


> BTW, as a former army engineer booby trapping has always been fun to me. If legal issues weren't a concern punji pits and C4 would be very useful.


What a great idea if we could hit the right people.


----------



## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

JRG13 said:


> The main problem is, people are very good problem solvers. Sure, you can put GPS tracking or Cell tracking in. But I'm betting you can rig easy detectors for cell and gps signal detecting, pretty soon all those pallets get left behind. You can try securing pallets or hives better, but a 18v grinder will take care of most of that in seconds. The best deterrent is getting good pictures and identifying the equipment used in the theft and being able to track the scum down.


If the Russians or Chinese were stealing our bees, yes, they could probably detect these devices. But I think they caught one of the thieves last week ... this did not appear to be someone who would be launching any moon rockets on his own, to put it mildly. I expect the people who resort to this are about at their limit driving a truck and operating a fork lift.

That said, game cameras are cheap and work really well.


----------



## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

warrior said:


> Just spitballing here but how about this.
> 
> A length of cable, 1/2" - 3/4", with a loop crimped on each end. Drill a hole in the three pallet stringers, centered. Thread the cable through as many pallets as length allows. Padlocks through the loops. Ties several pallets together.
> Again it won't stop the truly criminally bent but it is a somewhat quick fix.


Probably could cut it in less than a minute with a cutting disc in an angle grinder powered by an inverter.

Top end game cameras come with a cell dial out to your cell phone or email when a picture is taken. Can get a lot of nuisance pictures of grass moving, wildlife etc and cell charges add up. Also use up 12 AA batteries in less than 6 months. However, even if the thief spots and steals the camera, you at least have the pictures taken.

Almost need a chain linked compound with guard dogs and a security guard and even these are not 100% secure.


----------



## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

mgolden said:


> Probably could cut it in less than a minute with a cutting disc in an angle grinder powered by an inverter.
> 
> Top end game cameras come with a cell dial out to your cell phone or email when a picture is taken. Can get a lot of nuisance pictures of grass moving, wildlife etc and cell charges add up. Also use up 12 AA batteries in less than 6 months. However, even if the thief spots and steals the camera, you at least have the pictures taken.
> 
> Almost need a chain linked compound with guard dogs and a security guard and even these are not 100% secure.


I have three game cameras running on Energizer Ultimate Lithium batteries, coming through their second winter. I was skeptical at first but these things really do outlast alkaline batteries by a huge margin, at least when used in electronics. I'm doing burst of three pics, no .avi clips, and no cell link. 

My original cheapie camera, a Wildview, will go thru a set of C cells in two weeks. The Coverts and a LTL Acorn are much more efficient, although they will run down fast if they run too many .avi clips.


----------



## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

You don't need any fancy cell / gps detector to defeat the alarm/camera systems. A simple cell frequencies _jammer_ will work. Here is a Florida guy that was using a cell jammer over an extended time period just to annoy commuters ...  
http://www.tbo.com/news/business/fcc-seffner-man-was-using-cell-phone-jammer-20140429/


----------



## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

Only $48k in fines? He got off light. He said he'd been using it for 16 months or more. So let's say 16 months, 5 days a week. That's roughly 342 days. The FCC can fine $10k _*per day*_ for every day in which an infraction occurs. That's 3.42 million bucks if they decide to really get nasty.

I'm building a test station for an alarm system that runs wireless. I personally don't trust wireless due to the possibility of jamming, although this one will supposedly alarm if jammed. But that means you could force someone to turn it off by causing nuisance trips.


----------



## Bdfarmer555 (Oct 7, 2015)

Realizing it'd be a pain in the butt for the beek, but a $3 2x4x8 cut in half and nailed to each side of the pallet would block access from forklifts. Low tech, low cost method(maybe). Seems most thieves wouldn't spend the time with a crowbar to pull the nails. Instead they'd just go to the next set of hives...

They could just slide the forks under the pallet, but it'd be a hassle setting it on the truck. 

There are no ways to make stuff theft-proof, only theft deterrents. Make them work so hard they move on.


----------



## Ames Farm (Jan 21, 2016)

This seems like a lower cost option leaving one inside a hive in a empty feeder. Battery lasts for months and you can set it to send a location at different intervals. 

http://www.findmespot.com/en/index.php?cid=108#howitworks


----------



## rjphil (Feb 13, 2009)

warrior said:


> BTW, as a former army engineer booby trapping has always been fun to me. If legal issues weren't a concern punji pits and C4 would be very useful.


Claymores ???


----------



## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

Ames Farm said:


> This seems like a lower cost option leaving one inside a hive in a empty feeder. Battery lasts for months and you can set it to send a location at different intervals.
> 
> http://www.findmespot.com/en/index.php?cid=108#howitworks


Cost 117 with 99 a year in fees. So basically 1/4 of the fee's you get for pollination to track your hives. I like the C4 idea better.


----------



## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

EastSideBuzz said:


> Cost 117 with 99 a year in fees. So basically 1/4 of the fee's you get for pollination to track your hives. I like the C4 idea better.


That's if you put one on every palette, numbers will look a lot better if you put one in a single palette per drop, randomly. But now I'm curious, how much would the C4 idea cost ?


----------



## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

grozzie2 said:


> I'm curious, how much would the C4 idea cost ?


30 years - life behind bars.
Besides, that would make a person a FAR WORSE criminal than a mere thief.


----------



## Sunday Farmer (Nov 13, 2013)

Bdfarmer555 said:


> Realizing it'd be a pain in the butt for the beek, but a $3 2x4x8 cut in half and nailed to each side of the pallet would block access from forklifts. Low tech, low cost method(maybe). Seems most thieves wouldn't spend the time with a crowbar to pull the nails. Instead they'd just go to the next set of hives...
> 
> They could just slide the forks under the pallet, but it'd be a hassle setting it on the truck.
> 
> There are no ways to make stuff theft-proof, only theft deterrents. Make them work so hard they move on.


This is an awesome, practical response. You could use a 3'' T25 (star head) screw. Won't pull out, and most don't keep a drill/bit with them.


----------



## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

grozzie2 said:


> But now I'm curious, how much would the C4 idea cost ?


 See that is where I was going when I thought about the cost. I found a website but, I don't know the components needed. Nore would I really go down that path.

<LINK REMOVED DUE TO ILLEGAL CONTENT>

Probably got an alphabet soup agency looking at my web history now that I went to that website. :gh:

THIS IS NOT SOMETHING I WOULD DO OR CONDONE IT WAS A JOKE, Maybe not funny to some but, None the less a joke. Whole free speech kind of thing not to derail the conversation. 

Now hanging would be appropriate like cattle wrestling was.


----------



## Bee Bliss (Jun 9, 2010)

Non-bee DRONES! 

What about having a team of people located nearby in charge of hourly monitoring during shifts with a drone set up with cameras. They see activity that is not expected, they call authorities and/or owner. They should be notified when owner is getting them moved.

Signs also nearby that state the hives are being monitored and theft will be pursued and prosecuted could be a deterrent.

Can drones fly at night? Can pictures be sent out?


----------



## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

EastSideBuzz said:


> Now hanging would be appropriate like [HIGHLIGHT]cattle wrestling[/HIGHLIGHT] was.


Cattle wrestling is_ still _legal! Otherwise known as one of the activities at a rodeo .... 









photo credit

... odd that you think cattle wrestling is related to beehive theft though.

:ws:


----------



## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

Bee Bliss said:


> Can drones fly at night? Can pictures be sent out?


The FAA rulemaking process on "drones" (I prefer UAVs) for commercial use has only just started. I took a peek at their initial proposals and I thought I saw that they were proposing VFR daylight only operation. That would cramp the style of anybody using them for a surveillance business, and would probably render any evidence collected that way inadmissible in court. 

Which, of course, is bat-poop crazy. Obviously you could do IR and thermal imagery surveillance with these things ... the military and police have done it for decades.

Personally, I'd go with game cameras. They're cheap, automatic, easy to set up, and perfectly legal.


----------



## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

Stealing cattle is cattle rustling and the rodeo event is steer wrestling.


----------



## Bdfarmer555 (Oct 7, 2015)

Spypoint makes a game camera that uses a "black box". It's a remote wireless backup that saves images and can be hidden from view within 250'. My experience with them have been hit & miss, most of the time it works well, other times the backup only has a few of the images the camera does. 

So you could have a pic of the person who stole/destroyed your camera/card. And there's no subscription/fees to pay.


----------



## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

And Today I read that according to Joy Pendell, over 1700 hives were stolen this year. And those are the ones that got reported. Many probably did not.
I have a friend that had 4 stolen and I doubt that he reported.


----------



## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)

The game cameras I use send pictures by MMS or e-mail in the second they were shot. That means, that if someone moves into the scene, his face appears on my mobile in seconds. 

Also you can send SMS to the camera, which responds with sending new pictures, sending the GPS location and other nice stuff. All you need is a prepaid mobile card that you put into the camera.


----------



## Hillbillybees (Mar 3, 2016)

Need to get together with the farmers and get some stiff fines and jail sentences in place. Almonds are a huge part of the economy for the state. They need to protect it. When I was a kid a farmer got caught buying ag chemicals from high school kids very cheap and they nailed him. Farmers are a part of the problem. Those hives went somewhere and were put to work and you can bet they didn't have a bunch of extra pallets and new boxes ready for a change out either. 
The farmer doesn't want to go to jail or be ostracized by his neighbors. 
We beekeepers don't trust each other enough to register the number of hives we are taking and where they are going so a website registration type thing would never work. Initiated by the farmers with quantity contracted and who with. Anyone not willing to do that would be suspicious and someone showing up with more hives than they said they were taking would be the thief. Not to mention the scabs that show up without a contract and undercut everyone. Just think if the farmer had to state how many he needed or he couldn't get bees and then have to state who he finally used to fulfill his needs. Wouldn't that be nice. Your not registered you don't get bees. If your not registered you can't bring bees. No prices or none of that. Just a who has what checklist.


----------



## Hillbillybees (Mar 3, 2016)

Colony's added past a certain deadline become suspect and are inspected for possible theft. Maybe with the farmer signing off on it or something. Forfeiture to the beekeeper of all the thief owns, trucks, forklifts, homes, bank accounts etc sounds like a fair law and some stiff jail sentences thrown in for good measure.


----------



## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

Hillbillybees said:


> We beekeepers don't trust each other enough to register the number of hives we are taking and where they are going so a website registration type thing would never work.


I don't know which Port of Entry bug station that you stop at when entering California, but ours CLEARLY documents how many hives, where they came from and the destination. You are given a County phone number that you are to call as soon as they are unloaded. I have no idea if they actually come out and look? I seriously doubt that they count hives. But the paper trail portion is clearly in place.


----------



## high rate of speed (Jan 4, 2008)

Very well said Harry.must be different laws in Arkansas. Lol


----------



## warrior (Nov 21, 2005)

Other industries have instituted paperwork trails. Here in the southeast timber theft used to be the cost of doing business for landowners. Cutters would detour a few loads to a mill that didn't ask questions while only reporting his load tickets from the agreed upon mill. If the landowner wasn't counting trucks he got ripped.
That and a dozen other ways now has every load GPS identified and the mills won't touch anything that doesn't come with affadavits. The states upped the penalties as well.
It can be done but it's going to take some personal ethics from everyone involved with some state penalties to help folks rediscover personal ethics.


----------



## Hillbillybees (Mar 3, 2016)

Yes our laws are different down here. You get caught stealing our bees you would be begging for a jail sentence. We don't hate much in Arkansas but a thief is right up there at the top of the list.


----------



## username00101 (Apr 17, 2019)

Has anyone here actually had a non-commercial apiary vandalized/stolen? 

Seems to me like the chances of someone stealing hives outside of a main highway/interstate is quite low. Unless they're literally just sitting in an abandoned lot, right on the side of a main road. 

I can't imagine how anyone would even bother to consider risking serious legal action, getting caught, bullet in the face for a normal sized apiary.


----------



## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)

Here in Germany it happens regularly to hobbyist beekeepers. I neither understand those thieves' mindset.


----------



## username00101 (Apr 17, 2019)

BernhardHeuvel said:


> Here in Germany it happens regularly to hobbyist beekeepers. I neither understand those thieves' mindset.


What do you do in Germany to deter it?

I was thinking maybe I could drill long screws down into the hive stands so that it's not possible to remove the hive without leaving the bottom board behind.

I am also going to brand all my boxes.

On top of that, I will have a couple of Game Camera's set up - so that if someone does try to do something, I can easily check to see their license plate and catch them in the act.


----------



## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

My hives are in my backyard. If someone wants to steal them, they need to get past motion sensing lights, a big dog, and a .30-06. Bees are livestock. People that steal livestock are rustlers. Rustlers get shot. Maybe I am being melodramatic, maybe not. Try me.


----------



## hockeyfan_019 (Dec 1, 2019)

In my view the hidden game cameras are good call, and here is why. Several times while I was living down in TN, I heard a gunshot clearly coming from MY LAND in the middle of the night. So, I jumped up, grabbed my rifle, and my 2,000,000 candle power spotlight to take a look. When I stepped outside (keeping lights off) the woods and everything else was pitch black, dead quiet. Just when I was thinking about turning on the spot and looking around, I realized a few things:

- If there is total darkness, and you are holding a 2,000,000 candle power spotlight, you are the only target illuminated
- If a criminal has already demonstrated a willingness to use a firearm in the commission of a crime while trespassing on your land, a secondary target doesn't seem like too much of a stretch
- Ultimately my deer (or bees) can be replaced, but your safety cannot

With game cameras, it's likely that you will find that the perpetrator is a local that you can find a way to exact penitence in another way at a later time of your choosing, on your own terms, when you have the advantage, not while making yourself an attractive target. Please use caution when potentially dangerous people armed with loaded weapons are involved, especially when it may be likely that alcohol or other illegal substances may be involved


----------



## username00101 (Apr 17, 2019)

hockeyfan_019 said:


> In my view the hidden game cameras are good call, and here is why. Several times while I was living down in TN, I heard a gunshot clearly coming from MY LAND in the middle of the night. So, I jumped up, grabbed my rifle, and my 2,000,000 candle power spotlight to take a look. When I stepped outside (keeping lights off) the woods and everything else was pitch black, dead quiet. Just when I was thinking about turning on the spot and looking around, I realized a few things:
> 
> - If there is total darkness, and you are holding a 2,000,000 candle power spotlight, you are the only target illuminated
> - If a criminal has already demonstrated a willingness to use a firearm in the commission of a crime while trespassing on your land, a secondary target doesn't seem like too much of a stretch
> ...


Is there a specific brand of Game Cam that you folks here recommend that won't set me back $200, but will still be reliable and long lasting (e.g., I won't have to change the card every month - something I can just leave there, and access if I suspect a problem)?


----------



## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

Not only do you need to brand the hive box but also the frames. There was a theft in northern Alberta where the thief was removing five frames of bees c/w queen. The frames were replaced with other frames. The hives were being worked by employees and they didn't recognize the modification.

It's good to have an identifier on your possessions so if and when police recover it, you can claim it as yours.

I had some tools, slip tanks, jerry cans, propane bottles, etc stolen a few years back. Without an identifier on items, it was a waste of time reporting and listing the items stolen. I have engraved my drivers licence on a lot of tools, TV, laptop, slip tanks, jerry cans, holiday trailer etc. I think it is a significant deterrent. Property is hard to hock, and thieves don't want to get caught with identifiable property in their possession. Police can identify property as stolen property and where it was stolen from.


----------



## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Mr. Palmer., I may be crazy, but I will still pass. 

Never had a hive stolen that we know of.

Crazy Roland


----------



## username00101 (Apr 17, 2019)

Roland said:


> Mr. Palmer., I may be crazy, but I will still pass.
> 
> Never had a hive stolen that we know of.
> 
> Crazy Roland


Perhaps I'm wrong, but aren't most of the hive thefts taking place on the West Coast of the USA?

I've never heard of anything happening in this part of the state of PA - but Bears are a clear and present danger.


----------



## hockeyfan_019 (Dec 1, 2019)

username00101 said:


> Is there a specific brand of Game Cam that you folks here recommend that won't set me back $200, but will still be reliable and long lasting (e.g., I won't have to change the card every month - something I can just leave there, and access if I suspect a problem)?


Unfortunately I don't have anything specific to recommend particularly, but all my cameras are various models by a company called "Stealth cam". I've typically found them each for <$50, they take about 9 AA batteries, as big of a camera card as you can afford, and lasts for at least a month of "normal" activity. A hyper squirrel can fill you card with junk and kill your batteries in a week though. But I am also cheap, these are just "dumb cameras". If you want the fancy cameras that upload all their pictures to the cloud instantly, those are probably more than than I am willing to pay (including monthly fees for SIM card data packages?).


----------



## blain1976 (Jun 8, 2019)

I haven't had much luck with game cameras being reliable for very long, so I would also welcome recommendations for some good ones out there.
I'd be willing to shell out a decent amount, however I think it would have to work without internet service. The one that someone mentioned that used a prepaid cell service would possibly be an option depending on the cost....


----------



## blain1976 (Jun 8, 2019)

One other thing I thought of is, if you know that it would take a vehicle to enter your property or wherever your hives are, would it be feasible to put some sort of "spike strip" (board with long nails, etc.) in the road or path that you know where it is and to remove when you go out there? Most people carry one spare, but how nice would it be to have a bunch of thugs in a flatbed with 4 flats and only 1 spare?
Couple that idea with some game cameras and maybe even one of the fancy game cameras that lets you know they're out there.
Call the police and go back to bed.


----------



## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

There are plenty of good ways to protect a single yard of bees but given that most thefts happen in Cal to larger commercial operations you have to see the full picture. Over a million and a half hives are scattered in very small groupings over thousands and thousands of miles of little used farm trails that connect to lightly maintained secondary roads. Bees on trucks at all hours of the day and night are common sights. Trying to differentiate the criminals from the owners is virtually impossible. Last year I invested in some tracking devices but you’re spending in the neighborhood of $100 each and the chances of that particular pallet getting stolen is pretty slim. Btw, I had 20 hives stolen myself last year. Nice easy nights work for some crook who no doubt had them home and switched into his own boxes by sunrise.


----------



## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Talk to an attorney about leaving "bobby traps". you might get in trouble doing that.

Crazy Roland


----------



## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)

The first pallet of the row should fall apart, when you lift it. (Or for the smaller beekeeper: the hive bottom) Bees will take care of the thieves.


----------

