# Twenty minutes to find a wild colony



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

If you broke your Post up into paragraphs it would make it easier for me to read. Thanks.

If you will take some fingernail polish and paint the bees that come to your bait, you may more easily follow them and also time their return time, thereby getting some idea as to how far away their hive may be.

Bee Lining is written about in many of the older books. Quite an interesting way to interact w/ Nature. John Burroughs discribes a Bee Lining episode which I really enjoy reading. I believe it is in "Small Eyes and Other Papers", which can be found online.

Good hunting.


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## johnblagg (May 15, 2011)

ya know I have tried making a post into paraghraphs here and LOL did not think to add a couple of blank lines in between to do what should be possible to do with a few spaces at the beginning of a paragraph called a indentation ....but for some reason that does not work here and it all ends up a solid block of text ...maybe he did use paragraphs,But did not know that you have to actualy use a carriage return and a entire line between Paragraphs here unlike what your taught in school

Nice job finding the hive


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## baldwinbees (Mar 2, 2010)

1 of the 'older' beeks in our club says you can sprinkle powdered sugar on them&it will leave a line to follow.I haven't tried it'cause I feel its better to leave them alone&catch their swarms,unless they are close to people&acting aggressive.


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## Randy Ray (Nov 13, 2006)

baldwinbees said:


> I haven't tried it'cause I feel its better to leave them alone&catch their swarms.


 Better for what may I ask?


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## Bsweet (Apr 9, 2010)

Randy, Some fell its better to leave feral hives alone as long as they don't have to be removed. The thinking is to set swarm traps to catch swarms from treatment free hives, sure you may not catch them all (swarms) but the ones that get away create more feral hives. Jim


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## Randy Ray (Nov 13, 2006)

My poor neighbor is very scared of Bees. He says he's allergic and I could have them, save cutting the tree down, which I agree, we need trees as much or more than Honey Bees. But this would have not been the case if they were further than they were. My interest was really to find them and place them in my apiary, all the same without doing a service for my neighbor.

My apiary is an organic yard, where they come from is the same but only now, will be living in a nice dry box with a screen bottom to keep them more comfortable. 

Not to excuse my actions of not doing the best for the Bees by removing them from their natural habitat but if it is better to leave them for swarms is true why keep them and discuss them on a Beekeeping forum. 

There are miles and miles of wilderness that undoubtedly is loaded with feral and wild hives. Some hives never knowing humans and farms even exist. This one hive or any hive near residents for that matter will not put a dent in the wild hives the earth possesses. Honeybee hives are created every day somewhere. 

To extract them from the wild and raise queens that otherwise would not be created from them, increases their chances for survival not to mention the Honeybees that excape from apiaries *back* into the wild.

I hope I can change your minds that it is better to give them a habitat a little better than what they are used to.


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## Bsweet (Apr 9, 2010)

No wild animal or insect is better off in the control of man, if there are countless wild hives then why are fewer bees seen now than 20 years ago? As far as I can see the wild bees did not import verrora or the African honeybee or any of the other pest that affect them. We keep bees in nice cozy wooden boxs where they are crowded,manipulated to meet mans wishs, we rob thier honey to the point that we then must feed them sugar water and man made pollen patties to get them through the winter. 

You say your neighbor is scared of and allergic to honeybees, but it reads in your op as if your bee yard is as close to him as the wild hive so I guess your tame bees are trained not to bother the neighbors.

We keep bees in boxs and talk about them on forums because we are man and wish to learn and control our livestock. Sure many swarms are lost from apiaries each year and that maybe good if they survive, but many feral hives are cut down or killed every year just because man is afraid of them or find them in the way.

I am all for saving feral hives if possible and they must go, but if they are bothering no one I prefer to set swarm traps to catch queens from the wild stock that will still be there next year. Jim


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## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

There is a regional component to feral hives too. Wild colonies are killed in Florida for fear of AHB. 
Worshipping the bee and leaving in its natural environment is not a solution in Florida. 
As noted wild hives have largely died off in the past decade. I read of "survivor stock" but how do you know they did not just move in from a recently swarmed managed hive? Scientists that study feral colonies doubt they are over 9 months old, let alone years and multiple generations. 
Assumptions and "common sense" should be tempered with scientific research. Kennedy thought he could keep from crashing by bringing the nose of his plane up, but that puts an aircraft in a stall. 
Beekeeping or passive means like leaving feral colonies and swarms should be considered with the same understanding. 
Except for a few entomologists and not all entomologists understand bees, I really doubt we as a group know what is best for the bees. If we did why are so many lost by members of these forums?


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

What exactly is an 'organic' apiary? I've heard many definitions of the word but what do you mean by it Randy?


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## Randy Ray (Nov 13, 2006)

rwurster said:


> What exactly is an 'organic' apiary?


Natural homeopathic oils, like Tea Tree or Wintergreen to kill both verroa and tracheal mites. Natural cell size to keep the verroa exposed to the oils.

Nowhere else have I been inspired to save the bees, as reading a few knowledgeable peoples quotes in this forum, has inspired me. If I devote time to search all the post they make, I can hardly believe that they have come in here and said all my bees have died or abscounded from the treatment I give them.


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## DirtyDusty (May 21, 2011)

I believe to be organic the bees have to be a certain distance from any roads, no access to crops that have been fertilized with chemicals or have had pesticides used on them.

I don't think you can call yourself treatment free either if you are using essential oils.


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## Randy Ray (Nov 13, 2006)

DirtyDusty said:


> I believe to be organic the bees have to be a certain distance from any roads, no access to crops that have been fertilized with chemicals or have had pesticides used on them.
> 
> I don't think you can call yourself treatment free either if you are using essential oils.


How did finding a wild hive, thinking it would help anyone who can't afford to buy bees at these excelerated rates come to judging my bee yard from your console?


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## Randy Ray (Nov 13, 2006)

Bsweet said:


> You say your neighbor is scared of and allergic to honeybees, but it reads in your op as if your bee yard is as close to him as the wild hive so I guess your tame bees are trained not to bother the neighbors.


I'd much like to walk the distance from his house to the colony, than to walk it from my apiary, but it is peculiar I didn't notice any bees at his humming bird feeder and he even mentioned it. I wonder why that could be. The only training I give the bees in my yard is to multiply and increase.

But I promise the last two swarms that has flown into my apiary seem to have had a human symbiotic nature, for they clustered in my presence close to me and low enough to put them in boxes. 

Actually the first one was thirty feet in a tree and when I failed at capturing them they clustered closer to the ground, eye level. I didn't secure it and they swarmed again but still I was present to see them land on another low limb.

When I moved to this remote area I didn't even see a bee on anything for 2 or 3 years.

It's my belief that the old equipment that was going to waste I had laying around, may have attracted them to this area. There aren't any Beekers anywhere near me either.


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

Excellent story, when the temps hit 50 I see honey bees at work all the time. I put out some bait hives and have been looking for them without success. My problem is that the lift off of the courtyard and I lose sight of them, the same as your forest line problem. I may have to sit with a zen like trance and see if I can take a heading on them with a compass. Thanks for the input.


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## Randy Ray (Nov 13, 2006)

minz said:


> I may have to sit with a zen like trance and see if I can take a heading on them with a compass. Thanks for the input.


Now you got it start thinking like a bee. The secret I have found was to let them come and go for a while, their first visit seems like they look around before they go home. 

But if you are in a field on an over cast day you can even see the direction they go after first visit, but you will be turning in circles to keep your eye on her if you don't stand 15 feet away from where they will rise up and fly. But after a while they are accustom to the route and go home straight way. 

Overcast days are the easiest way to track them too.


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## DirtyDusty (May 21, 2011)

Randy Ray said:


> How did finding a wild hive, thinking it would help anyone who can't afford to buy bees at these excelerated rates come to judging my bee yard from your console?


I was replying to the previous post you made about what you are calling organic. No one is judging you from their console so take it easy. The topic was brought up a couple of nights ago at our bee club and that was what was relayed to us, when we asked, " what does it take to be organic.". You are the one who brought it up in this thread anyway. So you tell me what it has to do with you saving bees.


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## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

I had a feral swarm of bees take up residence in a tree not 50 yards from ou house, and about 60 yards from my apiary. I thought about cutting into the tree and removing them, but that thought didnt last to long, I figure I will just carpet bomb bait hives around my place in the spring in hopes of catching a swarm that may come off that tree and if any of my hives swarm!! Hopefully they will be able to provide "free bees" every year!!


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## Randy Ray (Nov 13, 2006)

DirtyDusty said:


> No one is judging you from their console so take it easy.


I am and have been at eased, I didn't say I was treatment free I said organic.


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## Jaseemtp (Nov 29, 2010)

congrartz Randy on locating the hive. I have attempted bee lining and not been successful. I have done some open feeding and notice bees flying off in different directions. One thing I have read on is if you are trying to bee line, to get a map of the area and when the bees fly away just draw a straight line from the feeder to their hive. Then move to another location and do it all over. Once you have 3 or more locations you should have an intersecting point on your map and that "should" be the location of the hive.


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## Randy Ray (Nov 13, 2006)

Jaseemtp said:


> Once you have 3 or more locations you should have an intersecting point.


 That would be in the Trigonometry category. You can also figure the distance, I was lucky by finding it on one coordinance for the further away the hive is, the averages of error is increased. But Trig. is spooky to me. If anyone knows of a good triangular computer application, I would hope someone will post it here in the Beelining section. A topographic map surely would help to keep you from walking off a mountain ledge. No map? Gamble on trigonometry.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

I don't know if the bees visiting my pond are wild, or just thirsty apiary bees, but they all go vertical and south. No other beekers in my area I think. But really I want to find my yellow jacket nest, and soon, so I read the thread. Good story. 

On the survival of wild hives, the only reason I got a beehive was that our local wild bees were living in a rent house, empty for several years, and last summer the owner came, found them, and had them evicted. Didn't see a tomato for 4 months. I suspect some of my wild visitors could be the swarm I lost this May. They went somewhere.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Randy Ray said:


> That would be in the Trigonometry category. You can also figure the distance, I was lucky by finding it on one coordinance for the further away the hive is, the averages of error is increased. But Trig. is spooky to me. If anyone knows of a good triangular computer application, I would hope someone will post it here in the Beelining section. A topographic map surely would help to keep you from walking off a mountain ledge. No map? Gamble on trigonometry.


A topo map is pretty handy, isn't it. Here's where I did a fictional triangulation using the property behind my house. The yellow squares are feeders. The red lines are the directions in which the bees went when they left the feeders. The circled area would be the area of interest to search for the bee colony in.


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## Jaseemtp (Nov 29, 2010)

Where would you find a topo map of your area? Like I said I have been doing some open feeding and I notice bees flying off in 5 different directions and not towards my hives.


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## Randy Ray (Nov 13, 2006)

Gypsi said:


> On the survival of wild hives, the only reason I got a beehive was that our local wild bees were living in a rent house


This is where the following statement doesn't apply. For a house is far better than a dead or alive, rotted out, slimy trees' trunk. Open air, and underground couldn't be a good place either, in my opinion.



Randy Ray said:


> I hope I can change your minds that it is better to give them a habitat a little better than what they are used to.





Gypsi said:


> But really I want to find my yellow jacket nest, and soon, so I read the thread.


Funny thing I thought the same thing about the ground jackets around here. They can get vicious. I may throw flour on them to get a better idea if they fly straight or wobbly as they do at the feeding stations.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

A house owned by a cheap person means those bees were sprayed with poison and the poisoned honey took out every bee for miles. A tree trunk is safer...IMHO


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## Randy Ray (Nov 13, 2006)

Gypsi said:


> A house owned by a cheap person means those bees were sprayed with poison and the poisoned honey took out every bee for miles. A tree trunk is safer...IMHO


Nothing is idiot proof.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

Randy Ray said:


> Nothing is idiot proof.


Ain't that the truth. I had no clue she was going to do it until after the fact, NOT that I was qualified to remove the bees, but I knew how to find people who were.


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## Randy Ray (Nov 13, 2006)

Intheswamp said:


> Here's where I did a fictional triangulation using the property behind my house.


Thanks for the example Intheswamp.


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

Nice, but it does not have to be a topo map. A Tomas guide or a street map may actually give you a better location (smaller scale). Also as it is shown on the map you really only need two points and two directions, the closer you get to a right angle (90 degrees) the easier it would be to triangulate (the less the two lines are close). Note if you are using a compass and a map the magnetic declination could mess you up (about 8 degrees here in the PNW).


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

I used an old version of Topo-3D by Delorme for the map above. Here is a link to an online site that will give you a topo map but not to the resolution of the Topo-3D. With this program I can draw the lines using specific directions with a simple copy and paste it will be a guesstimation where you draw the lines...but it will still get you in the ballpark pretty good.

http://www.mytopo.com/maps/ 

To use it to draw on simply get the map like you want it, press "PRINT SCREEN" on your keyboard, open up PAINT in your Accessories list, go up to edit and click on PASTE. From there you can manipulate the image as you wish. Save it to jpeg and you're off and running.

Ed


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