# A little frustrated with Dadant



## DLMKA (Feb 7, 2012)

Their quality control on frames really sucks this year. I bought 800-1000 frames this year and have found bottom bars with two different depths. I use all wedge top bars for crimp wired wax foundation with hooks. Anyway, I discovered the problem after getting 200 frames with the shallow groove assembled and cross wired ready for foundation when needed. The shallow groove doesn't allow enough room for the foundation and so it bows and is all wavy in the frame even after embedding. Now I've spent who knows how many hours wiring frames that will have to be cut out so I can trim down plasticell on the table saw so it will fit and the frames won't be a total loss. I bought 50 lbs of wax foundation and now will have to buy at least 200 plasticell AND I've wasted a ton of my time wiring junk frames. The frames with the deeper groove are fine but the frame with the shallow bottom bar groove even plasticell warps a little if you don't rip it down about 1/16". I sent them an email with the same pictures, hopefully they make good for themselves. I just had to vent a little after getting 100 replacement bottom bars for the 100 frames I haven't assembled yet and even the replacements had the shallow groove. I'm dead in the water, it's mid-april and I have a bunch to frames to rework.


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## ccar2000 (Aug 9, 2009)

That blows! At least they are usable though.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

Had the same problem last year with Mann Lake med. frames, when I called them up to order some of their wax to use with them, they said they sell two kinds of wax and neither fit their med frames??? they recommended ordering persico to fit the frames, the rep also said he always tells everyone to order different frames if using wax?? I tried a paper cutter to cut the wax down, the new ones aren't like the big old green ones they had when I was in school, wouldn't cut the wax nor the wires, ruined some more wax.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

The new bottom bars, just run them over your saw & deepen the grooves, if you just using standard saw cuts you'll need 2 swipes to get them wide enough.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

I have had the problem and needed to trim wired wax foundation. Aviation snips work well. The ones you have already assembled I think I would try to alter a pair of small diagonal cutters (side cutters) A bit of grinding and you may be able to reach in and nip the vertical wires. The wax could be then shortened with the point of a slender knife. I have seen the results in the hive of warped foundation installed. The bees sure make a mess of it.

I can imagine how you feel after all the work of putting it together.

Frank


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

I had the same problem but it was with the foundation, not the frames. Of a 2000 lb. order of deep foundation, 200 lb. was too deep. Dadant replaced it.


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## G3farms (Jun 13, 2009)

Set up some stops on the table saw and make split bottom bars out of them. That I the main reason I hate grooved bottom bars.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

And....Mann Lake orders normally arrive in a few days and Dadant in a few weeks.


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## DLMKA (Feb 7, 2012)

odfrank said:


> And....Mann Lake orders normally arrive in a few days and Dadant in a few weeks.


I can call Dadant and pick it up hours later in Hamilton.


I'll have to measure the foundation too, I just wish I had a nominal dimension on what it should be.


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## DLMKA (Feb 7, 2012)

Oldtimer said:


> The new bottom bars, just run them over your saw & deepen the grooves, if you just using standard saw cuts you'll need 2 swipes to get them wide enough.



I plan on doing that but I have 200 frames that are all assembled and wired. Probably 10+ hours of just frame wiring that I did when I didn't have anything else to do, now I have a garden and the bees are needing attention and I don't have 10 hours of spare time to re-do it all.


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

wildbranch2007 said:


> Had the same problem last year with Mann Lake med. frames, when I called them up to order some of their wax to use with them, they said they sell two kinds of wax and neither fit their med frames??? they recommended ordering persico to fit the frames, the rep also said he always tells everyone to order different frames if using wax?? I tried a paper cutter to cut the wax down, the new ones aren't like the big old green ones they had when I was in school, wouldn't cut the wax nor the wires, ruined some more wax.


I just did some. Mann Lake and found inconsistencies as well. Depth of groove varies so some foundation warps, some of the top ears had poor wood with bits broken. Put together some of the supposedly best quality boxes and found split wood and knots that had fallen out...were stored indoors over winter before building so were very dry. I took that to be within the normal variation in quality...perhaps it should not be.


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## juzzerbee (Apr 17, 2012)

I feel for you, I had a few frames from them that were "torqued" a bit like a parallagram when I assembled them.(due to crooked cut joints) I only assembled 10 like that and I was mad just about that! Makes you wonder how does your issue even occur. The saws are set the same day after day, and the person cutting probably doesn't change much. Like many things, price goes up and quality goes down. juzzer


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## jbeshearse (Oct 7, 2009)

I always use a speed square before the glue sets to insure the frames are square. Only takes a few seconds to adjust it if it is not, and then your frames hang nice and stright in the box without hitting the sides/ends. One of the first lessons I learned when assembling frames.


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## juzzerbee (Apr 17, 2012)

That's a good idea. I "fixed" mine also(the wood was a bit warped) but I still have the question of why things are quickly sent out to make someone money(any company, not bashing Dadant), that in the end, the consumer is the one spending the money AND having to make modifications to a companies mistake. Not a big deal for me, I was more frustrated than mad. As for DLMKA, I can only IMAGINE what must be felt. Not cool!! juzzer

***Measure twice cut once:doh:***


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## funwithbees (Mar 27, 2010)

DLMKA said:


> I plan on doing that but I have 200 frames that are all assembled and wired. Probably 10+ hours of just frame wiring that I did when I didn't have anything else to do, now I have a garden and the bees are needing attention and I don't have 10 hours of spare time to re-do it all.


Run the frames thru your table saw standing up, so that you make a split bottom bar.beats trashing your wiring job. 
Nick


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## DLMKA (Feb 7, 2012)

I talked to Arlen this afternoon and we decided the best way to proceed is they will run off 300+ sheets of foundation that are cut 1/8" short. Included will be a voucher for return shipping on an equal amount of foundation that I already bought. No extra work for me really. Somewhere, somehow I got bottom bars that are supposed to go with groove top bars for plasticell. I'm not sure why they have two different bottom bars, the frames could be made to work either way but it's Friday afternoon and I need to quit thinking like an engineer and start drinking beer.

The folks at Dadant are good people and stand behind their stuff. Gabe Dadant remembered me last year at the 150th Anniversary at Hamilton after talking to him once in person when I went over to pick up my very first hives a year earlier.


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## Mountain Man (Aug 26, 2013)

im glad to read this because I bought some that has done the same thing, just put 10 together last night and all 10 pcs of foundation are bowed out. I was gonna use it but after reading you guys have saved me


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Bad things happen to every company, product is not what it was intended to be. The difference is when some one like Arlen steps in and does what it takes to "Make it right". 

Gabe is a good man, he laughed when we called them "Rookies" for only having been beekeepers for 150 years.

Roland Diehnelt, 5 th gen..
Linden Apiary, est. 1852


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

I do lots of business each year with both Dadant and Mann Lake. Have had both good and bad experiences with each. 
My Cliffs Notes version?
Better overall product quality? Dadant
Your best bet in getting what you need, when you need it? Mann Lake, plus the Bee Bucks program really adds up.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

In my experience, Dadant is really slow to ship.


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## KILLERBEE (Apr 23, 2014)

Dadant charges WAY too much for shipping! I'm building my own parts now.


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