# Bee safe tick control?



## DrJeseuss (May 28, 2015)

Does anyone know any bee friendly treatments for ticks (not chickens, we have those, but far more ticks). We live in a wooded area, with a clearing of 'lawn' around the house. The lawn is moved as needed, but otherwise rough, with violets, henbit, dandilion, etc blooming at any given time. As my bees work these it's a concern. In my life before bees, we used granules (Sevin granules 'carbaryl') for tick control. You apply with a spreader across the lawn, then water it in. I plan to put it down late afternoon, and water in at twilight so it can hopefully soak (the dirt) and dry (the plants) before morning. As the bees don't spend a lot of time down walking in the dirt, is it safe to assume this application method will be 'safe', or will there still be a risk of losing a lot of bees. We've also planted fruit trees and blueberry bushes in the area which eliminates some choices, such as Tiazicide. Any other methods that are better? Imidacloprid, B-Cyfluthrin, Zeta-Cypermethrin, Bifenthrin? I'd prefer not to use any liquid sprays or dusts. With where we live, I know I can't eliminate all ticks, but with the mild winter they are already very bad this year, and it's still early. I'd like to knock them back from the house at the very least, and would also prefer to have something with residual effect at ground level to hopefully leave the bees unaffected. I'd give up the residual effects to protect the bees if necessary.

Thanks in advance.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Chickens?


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

Long pants tucked into socks? Top, or blouse always tucked into pants at waist? Dorky-looking, but it works for me and I live on a farm in an area with very high numbers of ticks with documented transmission of Lyme and Anaplasmosis.

I would never use Sevin, or neonics (imidaclorprid, etc.) near my bees.

Residual action pesticides act in two ways: being slowly dispensed for a long period or being systemic within the plants themselves. Both pathways have issues for bees.

I concentrate on environmental manipulation to reduce both tick and disease-reservoir small mammal presence. 

I never, ever, sit or lie down on the ground. I don't (or very rarely) wear sandals or go barefoot or barelegged or in shorts or a skirt outside.

I do whole body tick checks at least twice a day and we never wear clothes from the field into the house where they can contact things like sofas, beds, etc. We take outside shoes off and leave them in the mudroom rather than wear them around the house, or store them in a bedroom closet.

Ticks are a pain, and where we live, a significant infectious disease risk, but I don't believe the answer is a increasing the pesticide load. 

I'd suggest mowing your yard closely since that does make it less it somewhat tick-prone and removing brush piles, stone walls and other places that harbor small mammals. This will probably make it less-ticky and more usable for your family. Then let your bees find forage in wilder, more overgrown areas where you aren't likely go and get ticks. I don't think you can have it both ways: wild areas with bee-healthy forage that don't support ticks because you have applied pesticides. The bees can find what they need away from the area where you want, or need to be.

Enj.


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## DrJeseuss (May 28, 2015)

@jwcarlson: Chickens and guinea fowl are well known for finding and eating a lot of ticks in their area, but they of course can't get them all, and I'd guess not even near half.

@enjambres: I fully understand your position and would like to agree on many counts. I have two young girls that certainly aren't going to avoid tick encounter while playing. For that matter, we often go for hikes through the woods and expect to find ticks after. We're seated in several hundred acres of forest, and in a county that's roughly 80% federal forest and parkland. We have a LOT of chipmunks, squirrels, deer, etc so the ticks are just a part of life. Our grassy area is dappled light save for a few hours a day in any given spot, so it never really sees enough light to keep the ticks back. We've even watched as they climb the desk and come right in the back door through cracks. There are certainly possibilities for exclusion and avoidance, but if there's any way to knock them back to the woods, I'm hoping to find it. We don't mind doing tick-check after being outside, we just hope not to find many each time. Last year we found two on the girls, neither had yet grabbed on, just walking. I'm out much more in the thick of it and lost count quickly, but had around 5 I had to pull out. This year we've already more than doubled that count (walkers) and it's still early.


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

I appreciate your concern, but I would concentrate on managing your close-in environment - particularly where your girls play - aggressively for their safety and then let the bees forage elsewhere. I, too, live in an very rural area surrounded by forest and fields, and mice, and chipmunks and squirrels and all the things that foster heavy tick populations.

What I have read about truly effective tick control near houses really revolves around a strong focus on removing the habitat for the small mammals more than attempting control by using pesticides. Chemicals have generally been a failure, and at a high environmental cost. If you make the effort you can create small islands of fairly tick-free space as the ticks (on their own) won't travel every far. If you work on that part I think you will have more long-term success than getting on the pesticide merry-go-round. 

And honestly, the number of ticks you are reporting finding doesn't seem that high to me. Last year, despite all my personal precautions, I pulled off more than 50 (already sucking) ticks from my own hide. (I make it a point to stop counting a 50 every year.) And I probably felt and removed dozens and dozens more before they had found a place to dine. I've removed sucking ticks in every month of year, though thankfully, not every month of _each and every_ year. My first one this year, despite the record warm winter, was actually only about three weeks ago. 

One thing I have noted about tick population forecasts and expectations: whether the weather has been, or will be, generally hotter, colder, drier, wetter, snowier or snow-free, each time the experts pronounce that there will be a bumper crops of ticks. From where I sit (or don't, if I'm outside) there are always more ticks every year. When we bought this farm in the mid-80s there were absolutely no ticks here. I had a Rhodesian Ridgeback dog and she and I would often range out into the forest for the whole day and we would nap in the long grass after lunch. Then we'd come back and she slept every night on my bed. And I never saw a single tick for more than a decade. (And having grown up in South America, I was quite familiar with them. Believe me there are places on Earth where they are a 100 times worse than here in the US.) 

As a further suggestion in harm reduction: how do you get the beasts off? I use a specialized tool I bought at my veterinarian that twirls them off - even the tiny, tiny, little larval ticks in mid-to-late summer - without causing them to regurgitate into the wound. We keep a script for doxycycline and if it has been more than 24 hours since the creature might have been on (delayed, or forgotten tick check) then we will take a prophylactic dose. Last summer I only had to do that once, out of of all those bites. My husband who has a different set of health risks, and can not risk getting Lyme, prophylaxes every single exposure, but he only gets a few every year as he is not out in the field like I am on a daily basis. Unfortunately, while Lyme requires a prolonged bite, anaplasmosis can be transmitted quite quickly. But I take that risk since since my gut would be in permanent turmoil if I used antibiotics that often. (And having had it a couple of times, I may have built up some slight immunity. I hope so because it is really serious for someone as old as I am - mid 60s.)

If we are going to live in the country (where ticks are endemic, even if they are new arrivals) we have to figure out some way to remove the threat from our immediate environment. Ticks don't fly (though birds do, and they can carry some varieties of ticks, though not the ones that are preoccupying us at the moment) and they live and may die within a few feet of where they are born if not moved from there by mammals: small critters, mid-sized ones like our own dogs and cats, as well as wild ones, and larger ones, especially deer and finally, by humans themselves. Every step taken to interrupt that movement decreases the risk to the protected environment. I don't underestimate the effort involved, however.

Enj.


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

Try lightly spreading Agricultural Sulphur...

http://www.gardenguides.com/91924-rid-yard-ticks.html
Overview

Ticks are the biggest of the mite species, with eight legs and a bloodsucking habit that makes them an annoyance worldwide. Even worse, ticks are known carriers of diseases such as Rocky Mountain spotted fever. If you have pets in your yard, you may be battling with ticks. But there are a number of remedies that can help eliminate these pests from your yard.

Step 1

Put on protective gloves, protective clothing and breathing protection. A number of remedies for ticks, including treatments for pets, should not come in contact with your skin.
Step 2

Place powdered sulfur in a pillowcase, and tie the open end closed with garden twine. Leave an end of the garden twine loose to serve as a pull handle.
Step 3

Drag the pillowcase across your lawn. Minute traces of the sulfur will work their way through the pillowcase and dust the surface of your lawn. The sulfur will repel both ticks and mosquitoes.
Step 4

Repeat this process after every rainfall.
Step 5

Plant garlic in your yard. Garlic contains sulfur naturally, and will keep ticks out of your yard. To plant garlic, dig a hole in the ground in a location that receives full sunlight throughout the day and is well drained. The hole should be twice the size of a garlic clove. Place the clove with the pointed end upward in the hole and cover with dirt.

..................................................................
Another link...

http://homeguides.sfgate.com/sulfur-repellent-ticks-outside-92647.html

Suphur Repellent

Sulphur treats powdery mildew on crops, orchards, roses and pear or apple scab. It's also used for infestations of spider mites and chiggers. It's reasonably safe for honeybees, according to the University of California Statewide Integrated Pest Management Program. Use powdered elemental sulphur for dusting clothing as a tick repellent. Chemical suppliers and pharmacies sell it. Take care not to inhale sulphur powder because it can cause respiratory irritation.

Applying Sulphur

Using sulphur in your garden and landscaped areas may help repel ticks around your home. Sulphur has a long history as an insecticide. It's commonly used to control thrips, mites and psyllids and treat plant diseases and fungus including brown rot and rusts. It's available in liquid and powder forms and can be applied in as a dust, paste or spray or dissolved in water. Avoid using sulphur within a month of other insecticides to reduce the risk of plant damage and don't apply it in hot, dry weather or temperatures above 80 degrees Fahrenheit, the Clemson University Cooperative extension advises. Even though sulphur is nontoxic, it may cause skin and eye irritation.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

Spay your cloths (not the ground) with permethrin. It is toxic to bees, but when it drys on your cloths, the bees are safe. I spent several days looking for mushrooms and did not get a single tick. The stuff works great.

http://www.amazon.com/Sawyer-Produc...612073&sr=8-1&keywords=bug+repellent+clothing


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## Scitfrostbite (Aug 15, 2015)

Chickens are good. Mine used to run up to me and grab the ticks off my pant legs. But, since we began having our property sprayed by a commercial landscape co with an organic garlic and cedar oil spray, haven't seen any ticks in a couple of yrs. 

I also try to stay on the White Footed Mice population with traps and permethrin soaked cotton balls, they are the #1 carrier of ticks.


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## Fivej (Apr 4, 2016)

We have ticks here, but not that bad. However, last year I learned that you need to check your laundry when you take it off the line. One had crawled in the pant leg and got me. Never heard of the garlic and cedar spray. Sounds like it smells good! J


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## Vectorjet (Feb 20, 2015)

Scitfrostbite said:


> Chickens are good. Mine used to run up to me and grab the ticks off my pant legs. But, since we began having our property sprayed by a commercial landscape co with an organic garlic and cedar oil spray, haven't seen any ticks in a couple of yrs.
> 
> I also try to stay on the White Footed Mice population with traps and permethrin soaked cotton balls, they are the #1 carrier of ticks.


Permethrin soaked cotton balls, never heard that before. How do you use them to control the mice?


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## Scitfrostbite (Aug 15, 2015)

Mice take them back to nest for bedding and perm kills ticks there.


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## LeifLiberty (Sep 23, 2014)

Is it safe (for the bees) to spray on bee clothing and veil?


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## Green Tractor (Mar 31, 2016)

Vectorjet said:


> Permethrin soaked cotton balls, never heard that before. How do you use them to control the mice?


Short story: put treated cotton balls into PVC pipe; mice carry it back home and rub in it. Ticks die.

The #1 carriers of ticks are not deer - they are rodents and birds. Birds cause long-distance migration (the reason Lyme is moving west so fast) and the rodents are the local vector that make it such a dense occurrence. Tick barrier treatments only work if you have effective rodent control.

I've had Lyme. My wife has had Lyme. The ticks we've tested from our kids all had Lyme. We pay attention to the little things now, especially since we got rid of the chickens.


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## LeifLiberty (Sep 23, 2014)

Green Tractor said:


> Short story: put treated cotton balls into PVC pipe; mice carry it back home and rub in it. Ticks die.


How big of PVC pipe and how much cotton? Do you have a picture?


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## Scitfrostbite (Aug 15, 2015)

I just use toilet paper and paper towel tubes. I soak the cotton balls and lay them out to dry in my garage. Lay the tubes around where you think mice are frequenting. For me it's along my tool shed, under the deck, by the firewood pile (they like hanging out under the tarp), etc. if you got mice there the cotton balls will be gone in days. If after a week or two, the cotton balls we still in the tube, relocate.


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## jdmidwest (Jul 9, 2012)

Tick control is animal control. Free running animals bring ticks/attract ticks to an area. Squirrels, deer, birds, and dogs all add to the tick problem. Keeping grass mowed short and keeping the animals out of the area helps alot. Trees add to the problems allowing squirrels and birds to rest and travel.

Permethrin granules should be effective without ill effects on bees. It is available in granule form which should prevent contact to bees. It is a natural chemical kin to the chrysanthemum flower. But its effects on ground crawling insects works well. I would not put it near a hive or on a hive, but it should be safe in an area close to the hive. Most bees forage out of the local area anyway.


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## Green Tractor (Mar 31, 2016)

LeifLiberty said:


> How big of PVC pipe and how much cotton? Do you have a picture?


Google "Tick Tubes" but skip the commercial stuff. I prefer PVC or something that won't turn to mush in the weather. We're a little more humid than TN, but your climate may let you get away with it.

The picture is from the California Ag Organization and they have *a great write-up* on the details and how/why they work.


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## LeifLiberty (Sep 23, 2014)

Great. Thank you.


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## brettj777 (Feb 27, 2013)

Damminix®. Permethrin-treated cottonballs target larvae and nymphs of I. scapularis on white-footed mice. Product
effectiveness is dependent upon the collection of the cotton as nesting material from distributed tubes. No reduction in the
number of infected, host-seeking deer tick nymphs in woodland and residential areas of about 4 acres or less was found in CT
and NY trials. A reduction in nymphal ticks was reported in a Massachusetts study with the treatment of one 18-acre site.


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## gman1001 (Sep 24, 2013)

Brettj777, would love to read these studies. Your citing a study that says this did NOT work in a NY, CT study but DID work in a MA study right?


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

gman1001 said:


> Brettj777, would love to read these studies. Your citing a study that says this did NOT work in a NY, CT study but DID work in a MA study right?


Never read any studies, but I have seen several articles in state conservation magazines that talk about tick control using the permethrin/cotton ball/toilet paper tube method. Somehow I doubt that it is effective in clearing a particular area ticks, it mainly cuts down on the overall tick population in general. Ticks that don't come into contact with the permethrin will still be present and crawl were ever they want to.


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## Green Tractor (Mar 31, 2016)

It won't stop them anymore than my hammer will build a house with no other tools.

Cut back brush; keep the lawn mowed; open expansive areas to invite raptors (rodent control); encourage snakes; use lawn treatments when a problem shows up; and hunt deer are all a part of our defenses. 

The best defense of all was dozens of chickens running freely through the woods and lawns (we are rural). Unfortunately my travel schedule means we cannot take care of them consistently, so they moved into my freezer, right next to the pigs, geese, ducks and turkeys (we bought a lot of freezers last year...). But really, those chickens pretty much attacked ticks like nothing else. I'd sit and watch them patrol the woods and brush and pick them off wherever they could reach. Highly recommend.


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