# Building My Own Nucs... Info Please



## belt152 (Feb 21, 2008)

Hi All,

I'm a second year beek with 14 hives. I would like to create 14 nucs this July to overwinter and double my hive count come Spring. I'm located in S.W. Virginia hopefully (fingers crossed) overwinter won't be much of a problem. 

My question is: What is the best Nuc design? I have found at lest 4 plans and I would like input from those who have built their own nucs and had wintering success. 

The plan I like the most can be found at :
http://www.honeyrunapiaries.com/plans/5nuc.pdf

This one makes the sense to me. 

The other plans I have found are at:
http://www.beesource.com/plans/5frnuc.pdf

Please feel free to IM me or post with your plans and success rates. 

I don't feel it is worth to build a bottom board, inner cover, and outer cover for a NUC if they are made in late July and introduced into a 10 frame box in March.

Thanks in advance!

Chris


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## MrGreenThumb (Apr 22, 2007)

If you will be using these nucs to over winter and double your number of hives, in the spring, why bother using nucs at all? Would not a 8 or 10 frame deep be better for over wintering and then all you would need to do, in the spring, is add another deep onto them...as needed?


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## mxr618 (Apr 23, 2008)

I'm finishing up the betterbee.com plans for the first time. They go quickly if your shop's set up for multiple work stations. If it isn't or you don't have access to several different tools set up for each of the cuts, it can drag.

The unfun part is using a chisel to hide the corners of the inner cover and the back of the bottom board. I'm sure I could have done it with a Dremel tool but as this is the first set, I wanted to go slow.

I think if you are overwintering, the guy above me has the right idea. But if you want 5 frame hives, the ones with the bottom board are the way to go. If you are looking more for transportation OR don't feel like screwing around with routing / dadoing a reversable bottom board and an inner cover I'd go with the migratory nuc plans. FWIW

Here's something I can't figure out (and you can tell how green I am at beekeeping by my post count): why are the tops tin and not aluminum? Aluminum doesn't paint well like tin does but tin is significantly more expensive. The only thing I can think of is it helps keep the hive warm in the winter by retaining heat. Anybody know?


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

You may want to visit Michael Bush's page below and take a look at the section on "Overwintering Nucs". If you consider going with his "group" configuration it may influence which type of nuc design you use. 

Just some more food for thought.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnucs.htm


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

I over winter nucs in a deep split in half with a divider. They share the heat and it works great!


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

Chef Isaac said:


> I over winter nucs in a deep split in half with a divider. They share the heat and it works great!


And stacking them on top of each other helps too.


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

I do not stack them. Havent seen the need yet at least. I love the method of a deep split in half.


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## belt152 (Feb 21, 2008)

If you use the plastic hive divider, do yo have to "divide" the bottom board or do the bees drift in between the 2 halves? 
I'm assuming the hive divider on keeps the queens excluded from the other half. 
Seems to me the queens pheromones would constantly drift throughout the box. 

Just asking. All this is very new and intriguing!


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

The divider is solid wood. There is an entrance on each side directly kiddy corner from each other (so just two entrance per deep). 

This is a great way to keep nucs and overwinter. I just love it!


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

belt152 said:


> My question is: What is the best Nuc design? I have found at lest 4 plans and I would like input from those who have built their own nucs and had wintering success. Chris


Did you go to the VSBA meeting in April? If not, this is the design I like. 

I agree with Chef. Keeping two nucs in a deep is conservative of equipment, and bee resources in setting them up. Timing is everything. Set them up too early in the season, and they either swarm, or as another has said, you expand them onto 10 combs. Takes more equipment, but is a good method. Set them up too late, and they never build up correctly for winter. Allow at least 3 brood cycles before shutdown.

The nuc boxes I use:

This is a solid divider nuc box. Probably similar to the design that Chef is using. 

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff61/frenchhill/overwintednucs1.jpg

Has a bottom board with central cleat which the solid divider sits on, preventing the bees from crossing under. Entrances are on opposite sides...either front and back, or side to side as in this photo.

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff61/frenchhill/nucbottomboard.jpg

The inner cover is a plastic grain or seed bag.

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff61/frenchhill/nucbox2.jpg

I prefer a nuc box with a movable feeder/divider. 

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff61/frenchhill/readyforwinter.jpg

With a movable divider, you have more options. If you setup two nucs, and one fails, move the feeder over and expand good nuc onto eight combs. Or if you use one for requeening, etc, then do the same. If the season is still early enouth, you can re-split the remaing nuc after it builds up, and again have two.

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff61/frenchhill/2fourframenucs.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff61/frenchhill/1eightframenuc.jpg

You can take the nuc box one step further. By dividing it the short way, with 5/4 and a frame rerst on each side, and re-milling standard deep frames to fit, you can set up mating nucs. The box can be set up as 2 way, or 4 way. I winter mine as 2 way, by removing one queen on each side of the solid divider, and expanding each half onto 8 mini-combs. With over wintered mating nucs, there's no need to restock them each spring and no need for the typical mini-nuc set-up problems.

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff61/frenchhill/2-fours1-8frame.jpg

The management scheme works well for me. In fact has saved my apiary. With the losses I've suffered from Varroa in recent years, if I hadn't had all these nucs to restock my deadouts, I'd either be bankrupt, or trying to pay off a big bank loan for replacement bees.
Hope this helps, and gives some insight into the possibilities. There are beekeepers in Virginia wintering nucs. Go see what they do, and check on their timing.

Mike


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## Keith Benson (Feb 17, 2003)

Mike - do you have photos or plans for those feeder/dividers? Thanks for all the photos and the explanation.

It looks like they are made our of wood, are they sealed with wax so they do not leak?

Keith


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## denny (Aug 2, 2006)

Mike,.....thanks for posting that info with photos about your nuc designs. Very good ideas! I'll have to try that deep box with movable feeder/divider.

Keith,....I can't remember where I got these plans for the division board feeder, but I scanned it for you.....

http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/foxlbe/TDBF.JPG


...just click on the image once it loads, and it will enlarge to full size.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Keith Benson said:


> Mike - do you have photos or plans for those feeder/dividers? Thanks for all the photos and the explanation.
> 
> It looks like they are made our of wood, are they sealed with wax so they do not leak?
> 
> Keith


No plans. The feeder has a 2" pine rim, with 1/8 tempered masonite walls. They are glued and nailed to the frame with subfloor adhesive, or exterior Liquid Nails. All joints in the frame should be glued to when nailed together. The chamber is divided into two, with an entrance on opposite sides for each nuc...each nuc feeds in one chamber. The total height should match the depth of the box you use. The length would be just shy of the total inside length of your box. The lugs on the top bar should match your frame rests on the box you use. Each chamber is filled from the top. Inner cover bag covers fill holes.


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## Keith Benson (Feb 17, 2003)

denny said:


> Keith,....I can't remember where I got these plans for the division board feeder, but I scanned it for you.....


Thanks!

Keith


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## Keith Benson (Feb 17, 2003)

One more question that will no doubt show my wood-working ignorance. Is tempered masonite different than just good old masonite?

Also, I take it these things can be had at lowes or HD?

Keith


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

Keith Benson said:


> One more question that will no doubt show my wood-working ignorance. Is tempered masonite different than just good old masonite?
> 
> Also, I take it these things can be had at lowes or HD?
> 
> Keith


Yeah tempered is just that. It is harder and holds up longer and I am pretty sure that lowes and HD don't carry the tempered; you will need to get it from a contractor supply place or a tile shop.


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## mike haney (Feb 9, 2007)

*tops*

"Here's something I can't figure out (and you can tell how green I am at beekeeping by my post count): why are the tops tin and not aluminum? " there is no heat advantage. metal of any kind is used only to make'em last longer- i don't use it at all,just exterior plywood and (sometimes) paint. 10 years and counting. good luck,mike


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

I like using my standard equipment as much as possible. 
http://www.myoldtools.com/Bees/nuc/nuc1.jpg
http://www.myoldtools.com/Bees/nuc/nuc2.jpg
http://www.myoldtools.com/Bees/nuc/nuc3.jpg
http://www.myoldtools.com/Bees/nuc/nuc4.jpg
http://www.myoldtools.com/Bees/nuc/nuc5.jpg


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

bluegrass said:


> ; you will need to get it from a contractor supply place or a tile shop.


I get my tempered masonite from Home Depot.


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## Keith Benson (Feb 17, 2003)

Got some and made a few. Pretty slick - I can't wait to deploy them on Friday.

Keith


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

*Deep or Medium Nucs*

I am building a nuc that will take either deeps or mediums. I set it up as a deep, but have a ledge where I can place a board as the floor if I load mediums. It is rigged with a top entrance so it doesn't matter which size frame is in it. Why do this you ask? Because I run only mediums, but some nucs I pick up are deeps, so I only need one size nuc for running both types.

I will post pics as soon as I get it finished.


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## Benton2569 (Feb 26, 2007)

*Feeder / Divider?*

Has anyone tried modifying an existing frame style feeder and making that into a divider?

Folks, this is all excellent information. I built 2 nucs this spring and wish I had these tip since they would have been more versatile. Thanks for sharing!


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## Bee Draggle (Apr 5, 2006)

belt152,

I like the first nuc box you list in your post as it is very similar to the ones I build. You don’t need an inner cover at all IMO. When I need to feed I use a Brushy Mtn. division board feeder as their design doesn’t drown bees. Some people bore a hole through the top of the outer cover to accommodate a jar and leave it in place year round to seal out the rain. My bottom board is simply a solid board attached to the nuc with hive staples. Rather than bore a hole for an entrance, I shorten the board on the front of the nuc a bit to leave a 3/8” open space above the bottom board for the bees to enter.


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

These are actually working very well for me. I custom order them made to the size I need for 5 medium frames and they cost me 2.08 each. they are double walled 275 lb cardboard stock. The come flat and I glue them together and punch some vents and and entrance in them. 

It has helped me out alot this season with being able to keep my wooden ware in service instead of having to keep extra on hand for cutouts and swarms.


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

Michael Palmer said:


> I get my tempered masonite from Home Depot.


Williston Home Depot carries tempered now? When I worked for them when they first opened they did not and non of the three here locally do either. I assummed it was home depot wide, but maybe they have a demand for it up that way for some reason now.


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## JoeMcc (May 15, 2007)

Chef Isaac said:


> I over winter nucs in a deep split in half with a divider. They share the heat and it works great!


Isaac, What are you using to divide? Also the bottom boards need a slight mod too right?

Joe


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

Joe:I take a deep and run the router down the middle and use a piece of plywood to slip into to divide the sections. Then we cut tops of of plywood for inner covers. The key is to make sure that there is room when you cut the grooves with the router so the divider can slip in and out easily. 

For the bottom boards, these are out of plywood two. I take a jigsaw (I think that is what it is called) and cut an opening on opposite ends for the entrance. The entrance size will depend on how you plan to feed. I used grain bags last year for inner covers so I had to make the entrance bigger so I could feed with a boardman feeder. I do not like using grain bags for inner covers anymore and I dislike mason jars (too many and they are glass) and I just switched to a new feeding style so that is the reason for the wood inner covers.

I want to tell all that this method works great. There are so many options you can do with the bees are in double nucs. Plus the added advantage of the bees sharing heat in the winter time. I love it. 

Joe: you think we are ever going to get any sun?


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## JoeMcc (May 15, 2007)

Chef Isaac said:


> Joe: you think we are ever going to get any sun?


No i dont think we are ever going to get sun. Crazy! This is what happened last year and my commercial friend ended up feeding 6 totes.

I was wondering if anyone has Artic frost queens???? Something that flys between 45 and 50.



JoeMcc


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

Funny thing is that I grafted on Monday for the first round of the year and then total down pour on Tuesday. I need to make splits and they weather looks sucky. I just cant remember what june weather was like last year. Wasent it nice? I want sun!!!


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## Benton2569 (Feb 26, 2007)

*Sbb*

How many people put a screened bottom on their 5 frame nucs? It not, do you have any ventillation trouble in the summer?

I picked up some lumber at Lowes tonight and am ready to get it goin'.


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

SBB makes life easier, for ventilation purposes AND powdered sugar dusting.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>How many people put a screened bottom on their 5 frame nucs?

Not I. I think nucs have enough troubles keeping the brood nest warm and controlling the ventilation.


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

I do, but only for summer use, and only for a laying queen. Mating nucs are solid.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

Chef Isaac said:


> Funny thing is that I grafted on Monday for the first round of the year and then total down pour on Tuesday. I need to make splits and they weather looks sucky. I just cant remember what june weather was like last year. Wasent it nice? I want sun!!!


I spent eight years living and beekeeping in Oak Harbor, WA. I have some recollections of what the weather was like, there in the vicinity of the Puget Sound. Here in Tucson, AZ we haven't had rain since February, I would appreciate it if rain would come so we could get a late Summer wildflower flow initiated. Here's hoping you get some sunny weather and we get some rainy.


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## Benton2569 (Feb 26, 2007)

*SBB for Nucs*

I just built a few nucs today and used a combination of methods from the first post. I did make the SBB (still in process) where I can slide in a piece of quarter inch plywood to seal off the bottom. It seemed like a good idea. If it does not work I can always replace it with a solid board.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

With ideas provided by others, especially Michael Bush, I build what I call, condo mating Nucs. Both are built from 10-frame, medium supers; one has three partitions which makes four, 2-frame Nuc compartments; the other has two partitions which makes three, 3-frame Nuc compartments. Each have bottoms of #8 galvanized hardware cloth (which can be sealed off by placing the Nuc on a solid surface), partitions of painted cardboard, overlapping inner covers of canvas, and entrance holes on alternating sides cut near the top of the Nuc to reduce insectivore predation.


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## Benton2569 (Feb 26, 2007)

*entrance for mating nuc*

I want to make a mating nuc with a removeable divider so that I can run 2-2 frame nucs in the same box. Where should I put the entrances - do I need to alternate front/back or opposite sides?

Could I run two entrances off of the front (on opposite ends/ corners) so I can block one if it is not in use?

thanks


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

*Pics NUC being built*

Here is a nuc I built that can hold either five med or deep frames.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/?saved=1


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

Joseph:

I hope you get some rain. We need sun!!


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## Vabeeguy (Jun 15, 2006)

Hi Chris,
I have unassembled nucs for sale for $12.75. They are of similar design as to the one you posted. Migartory style cover, 5 frame body with standard cut handles, and a normal bottom board. I live in Fauquire co. Va if you ever get this way.
www.andralynfarm.com or www.vabeesupply.com
Jerry


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

Nice web site Jerry. Great prices on your items. Wish you were closer to my area. If you ever take a vacation out to Colorado let me know and I will put in an order. That way you can deduct your vacation costs as "business."


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## winevines (Apr 7, 2007)

*SBB for Overwinter Nucs (2 nucs in a deep setup)*

We are trying the overwinter nucs in a deep for the first time this year in NOrthern VA. Some of us are using Brushy Mt. Queen castles which already had the grooves and masonite dividers. We are aiming for 4 frame nucs with divison board feeders. 

I may have over fed mine and before long (in VA it gets hot as heck) it looked like this: http://www.pbase.com/winevines/overwintering_nucs_project_2008

It was crowded inside and backfilled with sugar water so a week ago I took the feeder OUT and put in an undrawn frame which was drawn out by the time I went back in there today. 
This is a balancing act we are learning and I think I will wait to feed until the end of August.

We modified a SBB sold by VABEEGUY which has an insert to close it off as needed. Also we made shims so that we could feed fondant. Note that without the shims, the outercover does not sit on quite straight, so you can either be sure to have rocks on top (which worked fine), or use 2 nuc migratory covers (see photos). Modification work done courtesy of FATSCHER. http://www.pbase.com/winevines/queencastlemodifications

Ultimately, I think this will go on top of another hive, but I am not sure yet.


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## Eaglerock (Jul 8, 2008)

I live near Erie PA and winter my bees in their hives... why would you down size them to winter. Giving them less frames for food. I am confused to your thoughts I guess.


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

If they are filling out comb that fast and given winter is still a couple of months away you can fill out a hive body with no problem, won't be crowded and have plenty of stores to make it.


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## winevines (Apr 7, 2007)

Re the last two responsess. The point is to keep them as nucs to overwinter.


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## stangardener (Mar 8, 2005)

winevines,
why a nuc and not a single?


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