# Queens



## Towers9 (Apr 20, 2012)

Last season I got 2 packages and both hives decided to requeen themselves in the fall. So my conclusion is that it is best to have your own stock and that's exactly what I'll be doing this year.

Glad to know that it worked ut for you!


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

You can actually raise better queens as you can take the time and you don't have to catch them when they have just started to lay and interrupt the development of their ovarioles. I want bees who can sense a queen failing and replace her, so I only requeen when the bees seem to be failing at tht job.


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## Kamon A. Reynolds (Apr 15, 2012)

Yes. One of my goals as well is to raise bees for colonies that are great at replacing there own queens. I have had a hive that I spotted two queens laying in it. Mother and daughter not long after it was back to one. I hope that gene will continue to show up in the generations to follow.


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## bbrowncods (Oct 10, 2012)

Yep, going to try and do that this year as well. My problem is that my mentor is of the belief that buying is better. I certainly don't have his knowledge yet, and it is hard to "debate" his logic for buying (known layer, VSH qualities, etc.). However I do think the way M. Bush and others do.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>his logic for buying (known layer, VSH qualities, etc.)

I would venture that few queen breeders are selling "known layers". Maybe they checked to see an egg, and maybe they didn't. I like to see a nice frame of capped brood...


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## Razorsharp (Jul 4, 2011)

I have read that possibly 1/3 of package queens get superseded in the first year!? If they are not marked most wouldn't know. This is a pic of queen cell in one of my splits.


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## Dave Burrup (Jul 22, 2008)

We had this same idea of raising our own queens, but we soon found out it was a lot tougher than it sounded. We can raise some really nice queen cells and the subsequent virgins look really nice. The problem comes in getting them back in the hive after their mating flights. During the spring and early summer we have nearly a 100% failure. The later half of the summer it gets better. Even with the high supercedure rate of boughten queens they are more dependable.
Dave


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## sterling (Nov 14, 2013)

Dave Burrup said:


> We had this same idea of raising our own queens, but we soon found out it was a lot tougher than it sounded. We can raise some really nice queen cells and the subsequent virgins look really nice. The problem comes in getting them back in the hive after their mating flights. During the spring and early summer we have nearly a 100% failure. The later half of the summer it gets better. Even with the high supercedure rate of boughten queens they are more dependable.
> Dave[/QUOT
> 
> Do you have a neighbor with lot of martin boxes? One place where I have a few hives a neighbor close by has martin houses and one or two of those hive have ended up queenless the last two years.


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## hideawayranch (Mar 5, 2013)

My first year as a beek, I only had two hives. One began to fail immediately, I checked and there was no queen. So I purchased a queen, not an inexpensive experience to be sure. The hive never thrived and it died in the fall. I didn't know then what I know now about helping out a hive in trouble. But I sure won't be buying anymore queens, regardless!


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## Dave Burrup (Jul 22, 2008)

We do not have Martins out here. I do think the problem is birds. I just do not know which one.
Dave


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

I agree that survivor stock can pan out.

A brood frame from one of our raised queens.








The queen herself.


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## merince (Jul 19, 2011)

Raising your own queens can be very simple or very complicated, it all depends on what you want to put into it. In the end you end up with a locally adapted queen.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Success at getting queens mated in a dearth is usually low. Success at getting queens mated in a flow is usually good. Of course local issues such as dragonflies, and swallows etc. have a marked effect... the best time to rear queens is when the bees are rearing a lot of drones in the spring before the flow. The bees are in the mood, the resources are there and the time is right...


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## hideawayranch (Mar 5, 2013)

merince said:


> Raising your own queens can be very simple or very complicated, it all depends on what you want to put into it. In the end you end up with a locally adapted queen.


I am going to try my hand at queen rearing this year. One of my hives is really strong and they are out of the hive even when the temps are in the 30's. Seems to me to be a good attribute!


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## merince (Jul 19, 2011)

hideawayranch said:


> I am going to try my hand at queen rearing this year. One of my hives is really strong and they are out of the hive even when the temps are in the 30's. Seems to me to be a good attribute!


Personally, I select my breeders once they are out of the woods, so to speak. To have active flyers at those temps (30s) is usually not good. In my experience it is usually low stores or some kind of infestation. I am sure others will be able to chime in with their opinion.

At any rate, when queen rearing time comes you will know for sure.


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## hideawayranch (Mar 5, 2013)

Thank you merince, I hadn't thought of that, I will certainly keep an eye out. I appreciate the input.


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## Pete O (Jul 13, 2013)

This will be my second year at beekeeping and I will be dedicating a third of one frame to queen cell making. If it doesn't work it's not something I'll be loosing sleep over. If I have successful queen cells, they will go into nucs to start new hives. Success or failure, I'll learn something at no cost.


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

Mr.Beeman said:


> I agree that survivor stock can pan out.
> 
> A brood frame from one of our raised queens.
> View attachment 8932
> ...


Beautiful frame of brood. Seems like when my queens lay in medium frames (I normally use deeps) I see lots of solid brood like that.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Most of the posts here assume that there are feral bees around or other kept hives within mating distance.

In a situation where there are no available drones other than those from your own hives, what then? What if all your hives happen to have queens grafted from the same hive? I re queened 4 hives this way last season that seemed OK, but also brought in some new queens. Supposedly this stock is fairly mite resistant but being so closely related, would inbreeding repression be a likely result from raising own queens, or would strong stock from line breeding be more likely?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Bees do no do well with "line breeding". Inbreeding causes diploid drones which displays as spotty brood. But i have seen no shortage of feral bees. Bees are very good at managing to find genetic variety. I think you would have to work at narrowing the gene pool.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

I dont doubt there is no shortage of drones around any of the previous posters hives, but that is my situation as far as I know. No feral bees and no one has any kept bees in the area since the mites came on the scene. Would that not change the advice about raising ones own queens? I live in northern Ontario away from any agricultural areas. Lakes freeze over first of December till breakup in May.


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## Gilligan (May 8, 2013)

No one ever sees bees in the area besides around your place?

I know it doesn't feel like anyone is keeping bees around me but I see bees in the flowers so they are coming from somewhere. (FYI, I don't have any hives of my own YET).


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

I have a neighbor that is a professional logger and he has not come across any in this area. His folks used to have bees so he knows them. I had knotweed or bamboo in my yard and every kind of little bee, wasp, hornet and imitator flies on the flowers but no honyebees. Closest I know of are 20 miles away.


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## Gilligan (May 8, 2013)

crofter said:


> I have a neighbor that is a professional logger and he has not come across any in this area. His folks used to have bees so he knows them. I had knotweed or bamboo in my yard and every kind of little bee, wasp, hornet and imitator flies on the flowers but no honyebees. Closest I know of are 20 miles away.


Tell your neighbor to stop cutting down all the tree!  j/K


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## Gino45 (Apr 6, 2012)

I think the standard is to see a good pattern of eggs being laid by the new queen. It's not hard to tell if a new queen has it or not; however, until the larvae are being capped and they're seen to be workers, the queen is not really proven. 

I would assume that conscientious queen producers would cull those that do not look right.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I think the standard is to see a good pattern of eggs being laid by the new queen. It's not hard to tell if a new queen has it or not; however, until the larvae are being capped and they're seen to be workers, the queen is not really proven. 

I seriously doubt very many queen rearers look for more than an egg... I like to see a full frame of capped brood...


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