# Oxalic acid dissolved in glycerin



## aiannar974 (Mar 29, 2017)

Sorry - Randy has posted on his website this is not a legal treatment yet and is a work in process. I did not see that in the article.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Look here
http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...ising-stopgap-flyswatter&highlight=shop+towel
Cheers 
gww


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## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

Quite frankly I do not care whether it is legal or not, the most important thing to consider is if it is a viable mite treatment. From tests I have carried out and posts that I have read it is not a treatment that will take out the mites on a mite ridden colony. It would appear to work best on colonies with low mite numbers and to a certain extent stop the normal build up of mites. This means you still have to monitor your colonies in case of a sudden influx of mites from failing colonies. So at the end of the day it is not the answer to the mite question but appears as another tool in the ongoing fight.
Johno


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## Hedghawg (Apr 25, 2016)

What makes Oxalic acid soaked into paper towels "illegal" but drenching them with Oxalic acid or heating it into a death vapor ok?


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## psm1212 (Feb 9, 2016)

I think we need to "stay tuned" on this one. Randy is doing a lot of testing on the West Coast and Auburn University and the University of Georgia have recently completed some testing this season in the humid Southeast. The preliminary results have been a bit of a mixed bag. I have not seen final results published yet, but have been looking. Randy has been working with the EPA and is attempting to get the shop-towel application approved with honey supers in place. I attended a seminar in August with Jennifer Barry of the U of Georgia who said they were still compiling data at that time. Has anybody seen a publication of the final results?


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## billabell (Apr 19, 2010)

Hedghawg said:


> What makes Oxalic acid soaked into paper towels "illegal" but drenching them with Oxalic acid or heating it into a death vapor ok?


Guvmint. :lookout:


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## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

The legality of treatments are the province of some corrupt government agencies, the OA dribble and OAV treatments are not legal unless the OA is purchased from a certain supplier that has a employment prevention agency label. However as the USA is now a country where the rule of law is applied selectively why bother with the law.
Johno


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## Nhaupt2 (May 31, 2016)

or you know maybe they just want to make sure they are not poisening anybody. But whatever fits in your world view i guess...


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## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

billabell said:


> Guvmint. :lookout:


Actually, it's about efficacy, wether or not it actually does the job, and residues left in a food destined for the human food consumption chain. I spoke with Randy about this treatment method at a conference just last week. His comment, not ready for prime time yet. In some cases, effective, some cases ineffective, and in one case, fatal for the bees under test in a lab test. They are working on refining this delivery method to get the efficacy to a suitable point, but it's not there yet. He was very clear during a presentation, this is not yet an approved method for delivering a pesticide (OA is a pesticide) and he is working via an experimental use certificate while they refine the process to a point it does become widely useable.

The goal, an approved method of application that can be used with honey supers in place. Vaporization is an approved application method, and got that way based on the data from Medhat at the Alberta agriculture department. But Medhat did not do testing of honey residues, it was based on the assumption that OA is a treatment to be used during times when colonies are broodless, ie in the fall / winter when no honey supers are in place. So, the approval specifically includes drip and vaporization as application methods, and specifically excludes applications when honey supers are on.

I know a lot of folks seem to think it's all some sort of government conspiracy to make life miserable, and you are free to think so if it makes you happy. Reality is a bit different tho. OA does occur naturally, and if you eat around a thousand pounds of rhubarb in an hour, you will be exposed to roughly the same concentration of OA that we pour into a beehive during a treatment. In this high concentration, it is a poison, demonstrated by the death of varroa mites. As Medhat is fond of saying in his presentations, the organics are 'dumb chemicals for smart beekeepers', but if you apply the dosage to high, they will kill bees just as well as varroa mites, so you need to be smart about applying them. OA has a wider tolerance than formic, but will reach the same result. The approval processes are about a risk/reward balance. Every time you pour a poison into a hive, you are pouring a poison into the environment. There is a cost to the environment in this process, and a risk to contaminating a food product in production. The approval process is about quantifying the risks, against the reward, in this case dead mites, and finding ways to achieve a balance, ie, maximum reward measured in terms of dead mites, with acceptable risk in terms of how much poison is poured into the environment and what risk is introduced into the food supply. There are sound reasons, with measured results for the how and why of the processes that get approved, vs those that aren't.

The one thing that never ceases to amaze me with beekeepers, if the discussion is about control of miticides etc, it's always 'some form of government conspiracy', yet if the discussion turns to neonics, suddenly its a case of 'they gotta all be banned'. Reality is, they are one and the same, both are insecticides that target specific groups of insects. But beekeepers in general seem to be of the mindset, an insecticide that targets varroa mites should be totally unrestricted, but something that targets other insects should be banned totally. Kind of reminds me of an old saying about pots and kettles.


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## msl (Sep 6, 2016)

well put


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## wallyblackburn (May 5, 2015)

I'll try to pull this back to the original issue - mite treatment...

One very interesting thing in the article that gets lost is how effective the OA/Glycerin soaked cardboard strips were. They were the most effective according to the testing. Mr. Oliver was very pleased with the results, but decided the labor involved and having to dispose of the used strips AT THE SCALE HE IS BEEKEEPING made them impractical. See pages 11-13.

I'm wondering though - for a hobby beekeeper - if the soaked strips might be feasible?

Regards,
Wally


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## Schultz (Mar 9, 2015)

" OA does occur naturally, and if you eat around a thousand pounds of rhubarb in an hour, you will be exposed to roughly the same concentration of OA that we pour into a beehive during a treatment."

grozzie, That seems fantastic to me. I thought we were using somewhat less than what was in a rhubarb pie.


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## Schultz (Mar 9, 2015)

ok


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## TPalmer (Jun 11, 2012)

I tried the OA/cardboard strips using the Argentine formula. I sugar shook a hive giving me 25 mites. So I put four 15 inch strips folded over the bars and let them sit for six weeks. They chewed the cardboard some but when I checked for mites again in that hive it only came up with one. So it might be worth it for the hobbyist, still not a real big hassle to me. The one thing that I did notice is that wear the cardboard was near the comb the queen did not lay so I got strips of no brood. Just my one-time observation so far but my other hives are now showing low mite counts.


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## Tim B (Apr 16, 2009)

Ran them for two rounds in the spring on 50plus hives in Georgia. Did not get adequate control. Back to the drawing board.


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## billabell (Apr 19, 2010)

grozzie2 
"I know a lot of folks seem to think it's all some sort of government conspiracy to make life miserable, and you are free to think so if it makes you happy. Reality is a bit different tho."

Maybe where you live, but not necessarily here in the states. Oh, and it certainly doesn't make me happy. 
Big Government is controlled by By Big Business it is a fact of life. I am not going to change it and neither are you. For example, there is no question that government policies such as ethanol and other fuel mixes cause fuel prices to rise while the jury is still out on a cost/effectiveness analysis the public does not believe ethanol is helpful to them. Big Ag (corn) loves ethanol, lots of luck getting that out of our fuel.
Big pharmacy controls the prices on drugs and loves the FDA which by increasing the cost of studies and years to bring a drug to market keeps the little guys out of the market. There will be no bulk discount buying for Medicare.
OA has been used successfully by European beekeepers for 20++ years and to my knowledge, they haven't killed anyone or caused any serious harm. EVERY protocol for the use of OA for 20++ years calls for the honey supers to be off. So if they just mandate that honey supers must be off the hive what do they care how many grams are used and in what manner. If you want to kill your queen or your bees by applying any substance, including sugar, wintergreen etc, etc why should the government be involved? As long as the honey supers are off it is good to go.
It is not a government conspiracy, and that is your word, not mine, my word is it is government stupidity. 
And, no it doesn't make me happy.


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## baybee (Jan 10, 2016)

I would like to try OA/glycerin cardboard strips to see if it is easier and more effective than OAV in keeping the mites in check. Not clear on the following: What kind of cardboard could be used for the strips: drywall shims, poster board, chipboard? 1.5-2 mm thick cardboard is suggested, which is about 1/16"-5/64".

Do I have to pull the frames out of the hive to fold the strips around or strips can be just pushed down?

Thanks in advance, h.


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## Hedghawg (Apr 25, 2016)

baybee said:


> I would like to try OA/glycerin cardboard strips to see if it is easier and more effective than OAV in keeping the mites in check. Not clear on the following: What kind of cardboard could be used for the strips: drywall shims, poster board, chipboard? 1.5-2 mm thick cardboard is suggested, which is about 1/16"-5/64".
> 
> Do I have to pull the frames out of the hive to fold the strips around or strips can be just pushed down?
> 
> Thanks in advance, h.


http://scientificbeekeeping.com/extended-release-oxalic-acid-progress-report-2/

This is Randy Oliver's October 2017 update. Of particular interest to you is a section describing the cardboard method. I have not tried the cardboard method myself but have done the shop towel method late part of September with satisfying results. I say satisfying because I just completed a OAV application and upon checking the sticky board the last couple of days I'm seeing a very low mite count so it's nothing scientific mind you. Today is day 3 and I understand this should be the biggest "drop" day so we'll see. I'll do another OAV treatment in a few days as there were still a little capped brood.


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## baybee (Jan 10, 2016)

Hedghawg said:


> Of particular interest to you is a section describing the cardboard method.


Thanks for the link! Found no details of the cardboard method though. I am looking for the details (cardboard, application) of the original (and working) technique developed in Argentina years ago.


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## Hedghawg (Apr 25, 2016)

baybee said:


> Thanks for the link! Found no details of the cardboard method though. I am looking for the details (cardboard, application) of the original (and working) technique developed in Argentina years ago.


The part I was referring to is where he is talking about (among other aspects) laying the cardboard strips across the the top rather than inserting them and what type of cardboard he used.


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## beekuk (Dec 31, 2008)

baybee said:


> Thanks for the link! Found no details of the cardboard method though. I am looking for the details (cardboard, application) of the original (and working) technique developed in Argentina years ago.


 A long thread, but all in there....http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...in-Shop-Towels-a-promising-stopgap-flyswatter

From the Argentine forum....http://teca.fao.org/discussion/varroa-jacobsoni-natural-methods-fight-it?page=1

The formulation.....https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s13592-015-0405-7#Tab3


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## baybee (Jan 10, 2016)

:thumbsup: 

But are there any details on* these specific questions*:

*(A)* if any cardboard of 1.5-2 mm thickness would do or there is a specific type? In Argentina, they sell the dry cardboard strips in beekeeping stores -- people don't cut them from egg cartons for some reason. 

*(B)* if it okay to just force the folded cardboard strips around frames? Or lifting frames is required?


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## beekuk (Dec 31, 2008)

baybee said:


> :thumbsup:
> 
> But are there any details on* these specific questions*:
> 
> ...


 They sell the same type of cardboard here as well, same type of absorbant material that beer mats are made of.


> The matrix of these strips is composed of cellulose (45 cm × 3 cm × 1.5 mm)





> Each strip was placed astride on frames 2, 4, 6, and 8 of the brood chamber (Figure 1)


Look at the pictures....no need to remove frames or force anything.


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

baybee said:


> *(B)* if it okay to just force the folded cardboard strips around frames? Or lifting frames is required?


I do not know the exact answer to this question. However I know from personal experience that glycerin and amitraz strips kill some bees when they are bathed by glycerin during the insertion process. I do not wish the same thing to happen to the queen. 

I understand the pertinence of the baybee question. If I ever use again glycerin-soaked strips I will lift the frames before inserting the strips.

If it okay to just force the folded cardboard strips around frames I can not understand the rationale for so much research by Randy Oliver with the towels.


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## baybee (Jan 10, 2016)

Eduardo Gomes said:


> If it okay to just force the folded cardboard strips around frames I can not understand the rationale for so much research by Randy Oliver with the towels.


I can't either. Sounds like he believes that after thirty years of no resistance to OA there is still a chance for Varroa to develop it, hence one can't expose mites to OA/glycerin mixture for longer than several weeks.

No amitraz will be involved.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Eduardo


> If it okay to just force the folded cardboard strips around frames I can not understand the rationale for so much research by Randy Oliver with the towels.


Randy explains his rational very well. If you use the strips you at some point have to go back in and take them out. When you take them out, besides the extra labor, you have an enviromental hazardous waste product that you have to dispose of. If the towels work, the bees carry them out for you saving labor and they are disperced into the enviroment in a non-harmful manner.

It seems like a pretty good reason to me for a guy that has hundreds to thousands of hives.
Cheers
gww


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## baybee (Jan 10, 2016)

gww said:


> ...If you use the strips you at some point have to go back in and take them out.
> Cheers
> gww


Who said that?


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Babybee
Have you read this?
http://scientificbeekeeping.com/beyond-taktic/
For example


> Three ProblemsProblem #1—the labor involved: When I excitedly showed the results to my son Eric, he rained on my parade with some simple arithmetic: 4 strips per box, 8 strips per hive, 1500 hives to treat = 12,000 strips to make, insert one at a time, then pry out one at a time for disposal (wearing nitrile gloves at every step). This treatment wasn’t going to fly, not at our labor costs.
> Problem #2—disposal: We’d need to deal with 12,000 strips of hazardous waste. The spent strips still contain enough acid that you can’t be casual with them–you don’t want to touch them with your bare hands or hive tool, nor toss them into the back of the truck, since they’d corrode the bed.
> Problem #3—pest resistance management: I don’t want to apply this (or *any*) treatment continuously, since I’d then be selecting for oxalic-resistant mites. I want an application method that the bees will remove by themselves after 30 days.


gww


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

gww said:


> It seems like a pretty good reason to me for a guy that has hundreds to thousands of hives.


Hi gww!
I withdraw the strips of acaricides from a little more than 600 hives without great labor cost. I usually associate this task with other tasks in the apiary. Regarding the strips used, I deliver them to my beekeepers' association, which then takes them to a national company dedicated to the recycling of pharmaceuticals.

I think that the gain of the towels when compared to the strips is more at the time of their placement and not so much at the time of their withdrawal. The placement of strips with glycerin between frames requires great care not to kill the queen. The placement of towels on the top of the frames seems to me much quicker and less risky as regards the possibility of killing the queen.


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## beekuk (Dec 31, 2008)

baybee said:


> Who said that?


 This is what the Argentinian link says.............



> The bees begin to gnaw the strips until they are removed from the hive. Then if population and brood is high the bees will removed the strips in less than two month.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Eduardo
Are you happy with the results you are getting when using the strips? I remember you asking a question of being able to treat on a calander schedual. Is this how you handle your use of the strips IE: have a certain date that you use them? I would be very interested in a report from you and your thoughts on your experiances so far.
Thanks
gww


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

gww said:


> Are you happy with the results you are getting when using the strips?


gww I treat with synthetic acaricides, especially Apivar strips. If you remain interested I can indicate some of the guidelines I follow.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Beekuk
I had thought in randy's test that on some of the harder to remove stuff that the bees had started to propolize over it. I did not go back and read it for sure incase I am mixeing something up. I wander how consistant the result of what you quoted from the study are of them removing it all in two months? If they do then the only differrance would be an extra month of exposure. If they don't do it consistantly and glue some down, it could be a problim. Maby Eduardo might have an answer to that also?
Thanks for any responce to my questions.

I do say even if it doesn't add much extra labor that the towels if their effectiveness is simmular still would be easier all around and gains are made by small incraments. Storing and taking to a recycle may not seem like much to some but I live way out in the boonies and a trip anywhere is going to take three hours for me. Even buying packages, the closest parking lot being delivered to was an hour away. I didn't buy any packages due to that.

The shop towels if they ever get them working with the right mixture will be the easiest to deal with. Till then the strips probly are best.
Cheers
gww


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Eduardo


> gww I treat with synthetic acaricides, especially Apivar strips. If you remain interested I can indicate some of the guidelines I follow.


I am not treating right now but am not a real purist and have no ideal of what I will be doing as I keep keeping bees in the future. I am a collector of things that people think are working and I would always like to know what you are doing in case I like it and want to try it too. I don't want to waste your time or take this thread too far away from what is being discussed but yes, I would love to know how you are doing it. I don't want to be considered as messing up this topic and so don't know for sure what is the right way for you to tell me if you feel like typing that much but I am curious how you are handling 600 hives.
Cheers
gww


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## beekuk (Dec 31, 2008)

gww said:


> Beekuk
> I had thought in randy's test that on some of the harder to remove stuff that the bees had started to propolize over it.


This is Randys latest report, if you scroll down a ways you can see and read about how he is placing the strips on top as well...

American Bee Journal, October 2017

http://scientificbeekeeping.com/extended-release-oxalic-acid-progress-report-2/

Also the commercial product at Apimondia Oct 2017....

Apimondia Istanbul - Aluen Cap - New Oxalic Acid Varroa Treatment..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUBmc1l5Rys

For sale here...
https://www.apicultodo.com/medicamentos/varroasis/tiras-aluen-cap-x-60-u-15-dosis/


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

gww said:


> I don't want to waste your time or take this thread too far away from what is being discussed but yes, I would love to know how you are doing it.


(My apologises to OP)

gww my major guidelines are: 
I treat twice a year. For two years I treat with Apivar and then I change once to another active principle to avoid the emergence of resistances.

I leave the Apivar strips for 10-12 weeks. Start the first treatment of the year in early February. I shoot these strips in mid / late April.

After 3 months end of July / beginning of August I place the second treatment and let it stay again 10 to 12 weeks.

If my accounts are correct (on my blog I made it public) about the bee population progression and progression of the mite rate with this calendar I can prevent the rate of varroa infestation rising above 3%, my desired threshold between treatments.


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## baybee (Jan 10, 2016)

Eduardo Gomes said:


> The placement of strips with glycerin between frames requires great care not to kill the queen.


Eduardo, do you mean that queen can be killed by a cardboard strip through mechanical rolling/squashing/cutting with sharp edges? Or by exposure to/drowning in the chemical mixture?

They say in the protocol that cardboard strips are hung for a day or so after saturation so that at the time of application there is no dripping glycerin.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Eduardo
I looked up your plant hardieness zone so I could keep a little perspective on your climate. If I got it correct we are talking about zone 9 or zone 10.

Thank you for posting the info. I went to your link of your blog that you have on all your post. A lot of stuff on there. 
Cheers
gww


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## baybee (Jan 10, 2016)

gww said:


> ...Three Problems...
> 
> gww


"Problem #1" and "Problem #2" are only problems when one believes the strips have to be taken out after certain time. 
"Problem #3" is made up.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Pete
Thanks for the links. I had not seen randy's october update yet. The caps for sale seem pretty high at $28 buck per hive. 
I skimed through the vidio cause sound on my computer sucks.
Thanks for posting.
gww


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Baybee


> "Problem #1" and "Problem #2" are only problems when one believes the strips have to be taken out after certain time.
> "Problem #3" is made up.


First let me say sorry for typing babybee instead of baybee, it was inadvertant and just something my mind does to me sometimes.

To your quote. You ask questions like you don't know something but when an answer is given you know it all and so you should be trying to explain it to me rather then me explain it to you. 

Problim three is not made up and he says he does not want to keep olaxic on the hive all the time, he does not say what you want to see.

His whole position was it would be nice if the bees did the work. It does not matter if you think it is easy enough to do the work yourself, that does not make it not easier if the bees remove it. You are correct though, if you don't mind if they stay in your hive forever then the strips are not harder as long as they don't get in the way while pulling frames for inspection.

If you know more then me which is quite possible then you should put it out there. My queation is, is it a set up question when you ask about placing the strips killing the bees, is it because you don't know or because you want to prove you do? You ask if it kills them mechanically or due to wetness of the acid. Are you asking for pure reasons of really wanting to know?
Cheers
gww


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## baybee (Jan 10, 2016)

gww said:


> Baybee
> ...Are you asking for pure reasons of really wanting to know?
> Cheers
> gww


Thanks, gww! Yes, I want to try the OA/glycerin strips but at this point missing two important details of the procedure. Switching from OAV because, on the one hand, vaporization doesn't really work on my hives because in our climate there is always brood; on the other hand, I want to keep the supers on all the time.

I want to find a treatment that is easy on the bees, allows to keep supers on, has no temperature restrictions, and, oh, yes, effectively lowers infestation levels. OAV, MAQS, Apivar are out at this time.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Do you care about it being against the law right now to treat with anything but hopgaurd and mqas with the supers on? If it was all that would save my bees, it would not worry me too much that it is illegal but it is.

There was a thread that was not that long ago about cardboard to use and I though it was mentioned that dry wall shims that you could get at the box stores would maby work.

If I was in your shoes and going to do it regaurdless of the law, there are enough links on this thread to do it. 

As far as the cardboard killing the queen, my guess is that mechanical would be more a worry then too much olaxic and glyseron (can't spell). I know on the test of the hopguard that bees rolled in the gooey substance on the tabs killed bees. It was suggested on them to shake the frames before aplying for that reason. I believe that the olaxic and glyseran would be drier. This is only a guess. To be compleetly safe you could shake the bees off the frame. I probly wouldn't till I killed a queen once but that is just me.

In the end, I usually look at what others are doing that like what they are doing and then decide if I want to try it.
Good luck
gww


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## baybee (Jan 10, 2016)

Aluen CAP (OA/glycerin strips) is a commercial product. The 2015 Maggie paper says this kind of treatment after 42 days leaves no OA residue in honey or wax.

I guess sometimes "illegal" means "forbidden by law" and sometimes "not recognized by law". I suppose these are different things.


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

baybee said:


> Eduardo, do you mean that queen can be killed by a cardboard strip through mechanical rolling/squashing/cutting with sharp edges? Or by exposure to/drowning in the chemical mixture?
> 
> They say in the protocol that cardboard strips are hung for a day or so after saturation so that at the time of application there is no dripping glycerin.


My experience is with cardboard strips with glycerin and amitraz. In this situation I have seen bees being killed at the time of insertion I believe that mainly due to over exposure to glycerin.

R. Oliver says more or less the same about Hopguard: "You need to insert the Hopguard strips into the broodnest for best efficacy. But if you inadvertently hit a queen when you insert a strip, she’ll likely be killed. So we take the time to shake the bees off the frame before applying each strip. This is not a problem for those with only a few hives, but would add considerable labor expense to a commercial operation." source: http://scientificbeekeeping.com/a-test-of-hopguard-ii-as-a-late-summer-mite-treatment/

I do not know if with the strips of glycerin and OA this possibility is similar.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Baybee


> I guess sometimes "illegal" means "forbidden by law" and sometimes "not recognized by law". I suppose these are different things.


I have seen several studies besides thiers that says the same and based on that, I look at the law like you do.

Cheers
gww


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

baybee said:


> Aluen CAP (OA/glycerin strips) is a commercial product.


Yes the Aluen CAP is legalized in Argentina. There are at present drills and trials so that it can be legalized in Europe.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

baybee said:


> Aluen CAP (OA/glycerin strips) is a commercial product. The 2015 Maggie paper says this kind of treatment after 42 days leaves no OA residue in honey or wax.
> 
> I guess sometimes "illegal" means "forbidden by law" and sometimes "not recognized by law". I suppose these are different things.


Well ... it depends what _country_ we are talking about. Aluen CAP is an Argentina product, and not available in the USA. In the USA, there are only 2 forms of "oxalic acid as a varroa pesticide" that are legal for use in beehives. Those 2 forms are OAV (oxalic acid vaporization) or OAD (the dribble / spray mixture of sugar syrup and oxalic acid). Any other form of oxalic acid applied as a varroa control is "forbidden by law".

I well understand that people often don't want to acknowledge that, but it is true.

Randy's experimentation with drywall shims and/or using glycerin as a carrier is not a currently EPA permitted/approved use of oxalic acid as a varroa pesticide. And if it is not EPA registered, and does not come in a container with an EPA approved label and directions, then it is illegal to use that substance as a pesticide.*

That is Federal law, based on enabling legislation for the EPA (FIFRA). Of course, there are plenty of violations ...



* Randy Oliver has an _Experimental Use Permit_ to do what he is doing - more on that here:
http://scientificbeekeeping.com/oxalic-shop-towel-updates/

.


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

gww said:


> Eduardo
> I looked up your plant hardieness zone so I could keep a little perspective on your climate. If I got it correct we are talking about zone 9 or zone 10.
> 
> Thank you for posting the info. I went to your link of your blog that you have on all your post. A lot of stuff on there.
> ...


My plant hardiness zone is 9a. 

Yes gww lot of stuff on my blog.

I translate a brief excerpt about my estimates.

"We are now in a position to calculate the rate of infestation in adult bees by the varroa mite in the colonies that present an approximate population dynamics that I presented.

end of April = 307 varroas for 23 000 bees; infestation of 0.2%;
end of May = 614 varroas to 45 000 bees; infestation of 0.2%;
end of June = 1228 varroas to 39 000 bees; infestation of 0.47%
end of July = 2456 varroas to 33 000 bees; infestation of 1.12%
end of August = 4912 varroas for 27 000 bees; infestation of 2.72%
end of September = 9824 varroas to 21 000 bees, 7% infestation."

It should not be too far from the reality because it is from them that I have established and fine-tuned my calendar of treatments that have been very effective in the last two years. This fall I've lost some hives due to problems with queens, but none due to varroa.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Eduardo


> This fall I've lost some hives due to problems with queens, but none due to varroa.


I remamber the thread where you were asking the question on calander treatments. It was in my mind then that to have that many hives you would have to work out some kind of cooky cutter plan to work with.

It sounds like it is going great. That sure is a heck of a build up of mites in a short period. Thanks for posting the extra. 
gww


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## beekuk (Dec 31, 2008)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> *It wouldn't surprise me that Randy Oliver has some sort of researcher's permit to do what he is doing, but I don't _know_ that.


 Yes he has, it can be viewed on his website.


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## baybee (Jan 10, 2016)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> Well ... And if it is not EPA registered, and does not come in a container with an EPA approved label and directions, then it is illegal to use that substance as a pesticide.
> 
> .


 Is it legal to eat honey produced in Argentina using, according to EPA, an illegal form of "oxalic acid as a Varroa pesticide", even if this honey is sold by tons in "wholesale centers" near you? 

I believe if I reproduced the materials, concentrations, and application methods of the well-tested Argentinian product, I'd get very close to "not recognized by law". While tweaking the concentrations, changing the delivery medium (from the tested cardboard to something else), and misplacing the treatment in hives is not far from "forbidden by law".


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## baybee (Jan 10, 2016)

Eduardo Gomes said:


> ... I do not know if with the strips of glycerin and OA this possibility is similar.


Thanks again, Eduardo! Sounds like it is better to install the strips at the time of full hive inspection.


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## Foxhound (Feb 19, 2015)

Aluen Cap Blog


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