# Swarm trapping/catches 2022



## Nicksotherhoney (Jun 10, 2017)

I placed a few swarm traps last year in a vacant field tons of wild flowers around and under a tree not a single hit.. even used swarm commander.. when scouting public places what do you look for?


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Nicksotherhoney said:


> when scouting public places what do you look for?


When I first started years ago, I read too much the TF "experts" and tried to look for "feral" bees - LOL!
This resulted in me driving/walking/carrying $h!t too much.

This is in my "little suburban backyard" - where I was looking for non-existent "feral" bees. 
Well, I gradually understood my ignorance in that regard.
I catch whatever the other bee owners loose, whatever it may be. 
But the stuff is hardly feral.








GregV's Alternative way to keep (have?) bees.


Does he tell what treatments he normally does?




www.beesource.com





Now days I look for my own convenience and that is sufficient to nail more than enough bees for my needs.
Especially because almost all of my trapping now days happens directly at or near my beekeeping sites.

Still I am looking for and checking out easily accessed public places too.
So, the *public *place scouting amounts to finding places that provide:

ability to do this withing my existing project range without extra driving (no more than 10 miles from the home base)
ability to drive up to within 30-100 feet to the trap installation
ability to hide the trap from it being accidentally found by someone AND without climbing
ability to come/leave without people being around (some poorly used public parking next to the forest/bush is great)

I used to ask the local authorities for public swarm trapping permission - no more of that (too much work for me and too much confusion on their part).
I also make a very strong, *external *lure so to know quickly if the bees are around - to know if it is worthwhile to keep the trap at the place.
With the strong lure, the bees quickly find the trap - *IF *they like the trap or not - that is another problem.
But if there are bees around, you can then work the problem out.

Last year I tried out two new public places and did not find them to be good (but this did not cost me much extra effort).
Two years ago I tried a new spot AND found it to be great (never mind me squandering the very good bees I scored there).
So this particular public spot I will keep using.

For example, here a nice public woody lot - may or may not try again; but no located bees here last year.
The other spot below - a good one (which you would have never guessed without trying it out - who in their right mind traps the swarms in bush thicket and no trees???  ).


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

Greg, you are just too kind to those snooty southerners, with their ridiculous swarm season starting in January.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

AR1 said:


> Greg, you are just too kind to those snooty southerners, with their ridiculous swarm season starting in January.


I am a nice guy.
Everyone knows this!


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## Lee Bussy (May 28, 2021)

GregB said:


> will drop off a proposal and cross my fingers and toes.


Just out of curiosity - what sort of language do you use to lure in the land owners?


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Lee Bussy said:


> Just out of curiosity - what sort of language do you use to lure in the land owners?


No b00l$h!t language.
I don't do that.

I simply say - I am so an so and live near you. I am a hobbyist beekeeper. Would you be interested to host few beehives for me? Many Thanks.
Written by hand on a piece of paper and dropped at the mailbox.

It works often enough - I scored an excellent site on a private preserve this way.
This case alone was worth the effort (very minimal effort at that).
To be fair, more often than not I never heard back - 5-6 times maybe?

Most of my sites are with people who actively looked for beekeepers for their properties
A couple of sites I actually walked up to the owners (having an opportunity), and had a chat with them, and shortly thereafter had their OK.
In person talk worked well for me, it is just not always possible or convenient.


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

Lee Bussy said:


> Just out of curiosity - what sort of language do you use to lure in the land owners?


resist the phrase "save the bees" As it is a tidbit you are inexperienced.

Same As Greg
introduce
ask permission to places hives
Offer to answer questions.

Mostly they are concerned about horses, dog and the family getting stung.
In general they are bee lovers/ok with it or bee haters.

get the yes No and move on, I do not spend 10 sec talking them into it. If you need to talk them into it, they will balk later.
After the season thank them near Xmas with a gift of honey, any sooner and they have expectations, I do not promice future Livestock gains as at time there are none.

Really 10 min and you will know
I have a card with name address phone number, so they have a way to call me and offer feedback , bear sightings, etc.

I had a person one time come to me with a whole booklet about the bees and how they pollinate and yada yada.
For me it was a turn off, just keep in mind it is their property and you are asking permission. do not try to prove bees are needed and good. it is an ask not a convince.

use the sales slogan SWSWSWN
Some Will Some Won't So What Next

10 door knocks should get you 1 or 2 nice sites. 3 hours and a 1/2 tank of car juice

google earth the property, only stop and ask at the "good spots" I Like "Old farms" no more critters, mostly cash cropping. As an Old crotchety person, I can relate to them better. No animals means less concern about gates and such. If some one comes to the door with a nose ring and Tats on their face, I ask them if they want to donate cash to the community soccer team, they say no and I leave.  IE have a change your mind spiel for the last second, just in case, I also used it one time when refer smoke rolled out the door, when it was opened. BTW they declined to give cash for the Soccer team.. No offence intended, but I will not have my bees in some folks yards,, enough said.

this would be for bees or traps.

today more people ask me to bring bees to their property than I have time for.
I guess the word is out

GG


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Gray Goose said:


> only stop and ask at the "good spots"


+1
This is why I do my ground recon first - driving about first and establish desirable candidates.
Later do the digital recon into the desirable spots.
And finally try to approach them.

The same for those owners who come to our forum asking for the beekeepers.
I will do my recon first into them.
Then bother contacting them if it is worth it to me.
Too many spots as it is, to waste the time.


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## Litsinger (Jun 14, 2018)

GregB said:


> Most of my sites are with people who actively looked for beekeepers for their properties


Good stuff, Greg. And at least around me, once people find out you are a beekeeper they are often glad to call you when they see or hear about swarms.

I've picked up several swarms in the neighborhood this way as well as having FB friends send me swarm removal help requests from their network.


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## RAST (Oct 30, 2008)

Yep, I’ll start hanging mine next week.


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## Cobbler (Jan 6, 2021)

This all sounds like a lot of work. Of course everybody’s situation is different. I don’t ask permission, I just place my traps in parks, wetlands, and right of ways around my suburban area. I also get people who hear about my beekeeping and ask to host a trap. That’s great, because I don’t even have to check the traps. I just get a call when the bees arrive. People love watching the scouts and then the swarm. Actually I have had some difficulty from people who fall in love with their bees and want me to leave them a little longer.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Cobbler said:


> This all sounds like a lot of work.


Well, consider my backyard is very limited and so I need out-yards anyway.
I can not just set out some hives in any public park either.

For people like myself, a combined trapping site/out-yard makes sense.
Does not stop from doing some covert swarm trapping missions in no-man's land.


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## chiara (Feb 14, 2017)

Caught one today March 6th. Katy, Texas, just west of Houston. Had it up for a couple weeks nothing and added more lemongrass oil around noon yesterday, moved in around 2 this afternoon.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

chiara said:


> Caught one today March 6th. Katy, Texas, just west of Houston. Had it up for a couple weeks nothing and added more lemongrass oil around noon yesterday, moved in around 2 this afternoon.


Love it. That looks like about 5 frames size. Is it?


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## chiara (Feb 14, 2017)

AR1 said:


> Love it. That looks like about 5 frames size. Is it?


Double 5 frame Nuc. They are the D Coats design with cleats on the top and bottom of the "supers". You get a little bur comb between boxes but not much. Top box has 5 frames of old comb and bottom is empty to give them open space.


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## Cobbler (Jan 6, 2021)

chiara said:


> Caught one today March 6th. Katy, Texas, just west of Houston. Had it up for a couple weeks nothing and added more lemongrass oil around noon yesterday, moved in around 2 this afternoon.


When you say you added LGO today, do you mean that you added it inside the box?

I have had quite a few experiences where just a little LGO seems to repel bees - until it has mellowed for a few days. I have had multiple instances where a Swarm has moved in, but apparently became overwhelmed by the smell inside the box and relocated to the bottom of the box where they started building comb. I have been experimenting with Ways to apply LGO to the outside of the box.

has anyone else had that same trouble, or developed a good, long-lasting way to apply LGO to the outside of a box?









congratulations on the catch. I am putting up my traps next week in great anticipation of the swarm season starting April 1 in my area.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Cobbler said:


> has anyone else had that same trouble, or developed a good, long-lasting way to *apply LGO to the outside of a box?*


This has been my standard technique - LGO outside of the box.
Anymore I simply hang a zip bag above the box - the higher the better, in fact.
The point of LGO - helping the bees to zero onto the trap over the long distance.
Once the scouts have been pulled near the box - well used box/old combs/propolis become the real lure (without being offensive).

For example - picture.


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## Litsinger (Jun 14, 2018)

Cobbler said:


> has anyone else had that same trouble, or developed a good, long-lasting way to apply LGO to the outside of a box?


I have not had this issue personally, but know of others who have run into this. For my part I employ a sealed ziplock bag with a q-tip in it inside the trap on top of the bars. One end of the q-tip is dipped in LGO and the other is dipped in an alcohol solution which has queens marinating in it (I think the technical term is maceration).

I have a friend who has had great trapping success by affixing a small vial with a lid to the lid of the swarm trap (think duct tape). The vial lid then has a hole bored in it and he installs a wick in the hole. Then he fills the vial with LGO and then he has fresh LGO wicking up throughout the season. Something to think about.


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## chiara (Feb 14, 2017)

Cobbler said:


> When you say you added LGO today, do you mean that you added it inside the box?
> 
> I have had quite a few experiences where just a little LGO seems to repel bees - until it has mellowed for a few days. I have had multiple instances where a Swarm has moved in, but apparently became overwhelmed by the smell inside the box and relocated to the bottom of the box where they started building comb. I have been experimenting with Ways to apply LGO to the outside of the box.
> 
> ...


4 or 5 drops on a paper towel, rubbed the paper towel on landing board and above entrance. Put towel in ziplock bag half way closed the bag and laid it on top of the frames in the top box. I try to limit the amount I use because the box is in my backyard and I can rebait it often if needed. I haven't looked in the trap/Nuc yet.


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## elmer_fud (Apr 21, 2018)

I have yet to catch any swarms, I keep a box out as a swarm trap every year though. I know we get calls for swarms to the local bee club though. We are still a month away from starting to getting swarms here though.


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## Cobbler (Jan 6, 2021)

GregB said:


> This has been my standard technique - LGO outside of the box.
> Anymore I simply hang a zip bag above the box - the higher the better, in fact.
> The point of LGO - helping the bees to zero onto the trap over the long distance.
> Once the scouts have been pulled near the box - well used box/old combs/propolis become the real lure (without being offensive).
> ...


Thanks for the photo and explanation. I’m going to try that.

I have also been experimenting with a mixture of LGO and beeswax poured into an empty chapstick while hot. The consistency is similar to chapstick. I can just rub some of that on the trap every time I check it. I’m hoping the wax helps to slow the evaporation of the LGO, but hard to tell.


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## mill-j (10 mo ago)

chiara said:


> 4 or 5 drops on a paper towel, rubbed the paper towel on landing board and above entrance. Put towel in ziplock bag half way closed the bag and laid it on top of the frames in the top box. I try to limit the amount I use because the box is in my backyard and I can rebait it often if needed. I haven't looked in the trap/Nuc yet.


I use a very similar method. I put the paper towel into the Ziploc bag and pour some lemon grass in there. I'm not sure how much it helps, but I pour a little water into the bag as well, it seems to keep it from drying out as fast. I then close it most of the way and put it into the bottom of the bait hive. I've had very good results with this. I usually catch a swarm before I need to rebait.


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## clong (Apr 6, 2015)

This year I am trying something slightly different with the swarm lure. Last year I added all of my deposed queens into a bottle of swarm commander. Most of them while they were alive. I make swarm lures that are wax disks with Swarm Commander and LGO mixed in. I put one of these in a slightly open ziploc on the top of the frames. Then a small spritzes of lure or LGO at the entrance, along with a couple pumps on the outside of the box, well away from the entrance.

I've already seen heavy scouting at one of the traps, on the first warm day following trap installation This is in Richmond, VA. The heavy activity has continued through yesterday, so today I'll take a look. Was it the new formulation, or just an early spring? I don't know.


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## Ranger N (Sep 23, 2020)

I am in Lancaster County, SC and observed quite a bit of scouting on the swarm trap here at the home yard 3 days ago in 76 degree weather. Now it is raining for the next couple days so we will see if they come back after the rain.
On another note I got my first call for a swarm yesterday around 4pm. When I arrived it was the local Lowes hardware store. Easy trap, 5-6 lbs of bees on the side of a tree container in the garden section. I posted a picture on a new string in the swarm forum. I hope it is a sign to come for the start of the 2022 swarm season.


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## Lee Bussy (May 28, 2021)

I thought I would join in here since I'm excited about the new season. I saw bees scouting one of my boxes on a warm day earlier this week so I have high hopes. I know a lot of you eschew "fancy" lures, but I got some Swarm Commander anyway to try it out. I also have LGO so I'll be using different stuff in different boxes.

I found a nice place for a couple of boxes on the S end of a hedgerow on my property, nice morning sun with a little shade in the late afternoon. That's where I saw the scouts anyway.










Cobbler said:


> I’m hoping the wax helps to slow the evaporation of the LGO, but hard to tell.


That sounds like a nice handy idea - not going to spill in your pocket or tool bucket for sure. A tip from candlemakers: Use a little Vybar 260 in the wax (like 1/4 tsp per lb) to help fix the fragrance longer. That works pretty well in my candles and fragrance pucks. It's not "natural" (paraffin-based) but it should not be going in a production hive.


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## clong (Apr 6, 2015)

clong said:


> I've already seen heavy scouting at one of the traps, on the first warm day following trap installation This is in Richmond, VA.


The scouting dropped off from 20 bees at the entrance to the usual 2-3 bees at a time, so we'll see. The game has only just begun.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

OK, I keep seeing these fresh videos about risky placements of the swarm traps - up, up, up the tree.
Annoying and many people don't know any better (like this YT happy, curly hair lady "teaching" the other wanna-bees to do something she has no clue about).

Not only is this trapping technique promotion is mis-leading and unnecessary, but also this is irresponsible - to be instructing the inexperienced beekeepers to be risking their limb and life doing unsafe swarm trapping installs.
Last 1-2 weeks I have been pruning trees, sometimes way up there, balancing on a ladder, on a windy day. 
Really hate doing it but that is about tree pruning and those darn trees keep growing UP (despite my commands).

I am sure it works (this trap-on-a-tree thing).
But just as I am sure when I dropped a trap, full of honey, a couple of years ago - it was a *bad situation* (and I was just only carrying the trap to my truck, NOT even up the tree).










Right here, below are sufficient and successful swarm trap installations.
They work; they are safe; they are easy; they are fun.


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## Cobbler (Jan 6, 2021)

My first year swarm trapping, I was up at the top of my 18 foot ladder installing a trap on a tree when the trap slipped and smashed me in the face. I got a black eye, but it could’ve been a lot worse. I’ve also had some pretty hairy situation‘s taking traps down off the tree when they’re full. 

with all that said, I set my traps on public land in my suburban area. That makes leaving a trap on the ground difficult. I am concerned about theft and vandalism as well as people just needing to exert a sense of self importance on the community. The only vandalism I have ever had was with traps that were well within reach from the ground.

I have settled on hanging my traps just one or two steps up my step ladder. This illuminates most of the risks. It has been a pretty convenient, workable solution.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Cobbler said:


> *I have settled on hanging my traps just one or two steps up my step ladder.* This illuminates most of the risks. It has been a pretty convenient, workable solution.


A fine compromise.
Work platform is very light to carry about and gives lots of work area freedom.
And yet just one step up may prevent the theft/vandalism (hiding the trap well helps too).

I got one of these; paid like $19.99 on sale.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Let me re-post one of my successful trapping locations (on public hunting/fishing land).
This is a view from the public parking lot.
That invisible trap is in that thicket, right in the middle of the picture; just standing on a couple of rotten logs.
So, this is a demo about thinking "out of the box" when trapping the swarms. 
Bees need not be "seeing" your trap or your magic tree from a distance (as some think and teach others too) - it is not important.


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## BEE J (10 mo ago)

GregB said:


> A fine compromise.
> Work platform is very light to carry about and gives lots of work area freedom.
> And yet just one step up may prevent the theft/vandalism (hiding the trap well helps too).
> 
> ...


We got some of these, too! I just used a step ladder and monkeyed it up. In the future when I get older, I might not be able to do that though. People would steal or vandalize your trap? What a sad world we live in.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

BEE J said:


> People would steal or vandalize your trap?


All over 6 years of trapping I only lost one - a computer box trap.
That one was too obvious and by a rail road (mostly likely some trouble teenagers hanging out).
All my higher value traps are on private lands OR I do a very job hiding them.


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## BEE J (10 mo ago)

GregB said:


> All over 6 years of trapping I only lost one - a computer box trap.
> That one was too obvious and by a rail road (mostly likely some trouble teenagers hanging out).
> All my higher value traps are on private lands OR I do a very job hiding them.


Well I'm glad it wasn't one of your more expensive traps.  I have all mine on our property for now.


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## daddyo1 (Aug 3, 2021)

I put mine in our deer stands (I've posted this before, and after that I read about other people doing it before I did)


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

daddyo1 said:


> I put mine in our *deer stands* (I've posted this before, and after that I read about other people doing it before I did)


The deer stands would be one of the choices I'd go for.

Almost bought a piece of land back then (marketed as hunting land with all the deer stands pre-installed around it).
It could be a great swarm trapping location; just not for the price asked for.


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## daddyo1 (Aug 3, 2021)

Hahahaha! Yeah GregB I hear you, but I had the deer hunting land before I got into bees. I haven't seen a single scout at any of my deer stand mounted swarm traps this year. It's only starting May though. (I didn't really start catching any swarms until in May of last year. Though one of my hives has already swarmed this year) I did one successful split last month and two more this week to keep mine from swarming.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

daddyo1 said:


> Though one of my hives has already swarmed this year) I did one successful split last month and two more this week to keep mine from swarming.


Where you located, daddyo1?


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## daddyo1 (Aug 3, 2021)

Moody Texas AR1.
I have 8 traps out between my house, mother in laws, daughter in laws, and my land (32 acres, half woods)
The trap that swarmed was I considered "Africanized". They were mean as hell, but they had 16 langstroph frames and were probably my strongest hive (I had 16 and made it through the winter with 10). 
Man they swarmed lock, stock, and barrel! They left 16 frames of empty dark comb that I immediately turned into 2 swarm traps (Using two brood boxes I had from my conventional hives. I have since built all horizontal hives)
If I catch swarms in them I will restart my vertical hive section.
I caught 13 swarms last year and I have hives ready for 12 more colonies.
I retire in a year and four months, this is my follow on plan to stay busy.
I see your in Ill. My wife is from Chicago.


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## daddyo1 (Aug 3, 2021)

AR1 said:


> Where you located, daddyo1?


Moody Texas AR1.
I have 8 traps out between my house, mother in laws, daughter in laws, and my land (32 acres, half woods)
The trap that swarmed was I considered "Africanized". They were mean as hell, but they had 16 langstroph frames and were probably my strongest hive (I had 16 and made it through the winter with 10). 
Man they swarmed lock, stock, and barrel! They left 16 frames of empty dark comb that I immediately turned into 2 swarm traps (Using two brood boxes I had from my conventional hives. I have since built all horizontal hives)
If I catch swarms in them I will restart my vertical hive section.
I caught 13 swarms last year and I have hives ready for 12 more colonies.
I retire in a year and four months, this is my follow on plan to stay busy.
I see your in Ill. My wife is from Chicago.


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## Tigger19687 (Dec 27, 2014)

It's only May 1 so here in Mass I think I have some time yet.
I have 2 empty used hives on my front yard.
Both Lang's. One is a double deep with the 2 frames zip tied together and middle bars cut. Inside are also 2 plastic frames together, 3 frames have about 1/2 old comb.
2nd one is just two medium boxes, no frames zipped nor old comb, 2 plastic... All frames had been used in the past.
Both hives have propolis in abundance.

As I was setting them up today a little bee flew into the DD and hung out on some comb. No idea what she was doing, looked like she was just smelling 🤷‍♀️ She was still there after 45 min and I had to close the top... She'll find her way out I guess.

BTW I had a tub of honey and stuff in a bucket right near there. Neither this bee nor another that stopped by wanted anything to do with the bucket.... 🤔

The hives are just on cinder blocks


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

daddyo1 said:


> Moody Texas AR1.
> I see your in Ill. My wife is from Chicago.


My daughter is in College Station, gonna be driving down to see her in a few weeks. 
Have you been to the mammoth museum in Waco, and is it worth the time?


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## daddyo1 (Aug 3, 2021)

AR1 said:


> My daughter is in College Station, gonna be driving down to see her in a few weeks.
> Have you been to the mammoth museum in Waco, and is it worth the time?


I have not AR1, I've heard of it. Never been there. I would like to check it out as well. Texas Ranger museum is up towards Waco as well, I heard that's cool too. 
On another note, a few bees visiting my north swarm trap today, also a couple in the trap by my work shed.
It'll be nice and toasty warm by the time you come to Texas!


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## daddyo1 (Aug 3, 2021)

1rst swarm caught in the back yard at my house!


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Well, I started putting out my traps too.
Better be ready.

Over the last 5 years I'd put out 7-8 traps every season.
The results were:
--------------------------
2021 - 6
2020 - 9
2019 - 2
2018 - 4
2017 - 3
Average - 4.8.


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## daddyo1 (Aug 3, 2021)

Thanks GregB, I caught 13 last year and none the year before, 1 so far this year. 
I didn't really start catching until about now last year and all the way to September, I'm just anxious this year.
Dane county? I was stationed at Ft. Mccoy from 96-98 (Army). A beautiful state for sure! I tell people I spent 3 summers there, all 9 days!!!!!! (Actually, I spent 11 months in Bosnia during that time)
Do you have a favorite hive type? I'm gonna try some Top Bar hives this summer. I had a couple regular vertical type hives, but switched to Dr. Leo type Horizontals because of my back.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

daddyo1 said:


> Do you have a favorite hive type? I'm gonna try some Top Bar hives this summer. I had a couple regular vertical type hives, but switched to Dr. Leo type Horizontals because of my back.


The Ukrainian hives are my staple - see my profile pic.
Similar to Dr. Leo but deeper.
We have lots of talking in the "Horizontal" hive sub-forum about this - look up.


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## daddyo1 (Aug 3, 2021)

GregB said:


> The Ukrainian hives are my staple - see my profile pic.
> Similar to Dr. Leo but deeper.
> We have lots of talking in the "Horizontal" hive sub-forum about this - look up.


I'll check them out, It's just so hard to work with the Layans during build because they weigh so much.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

daddyo1 said:


> I'll check them out, It's just so hard to work with the Layans during build because they weigh so much.


Yep. Those hives are meant to stay in place. That is my *only *gripe about these hives.


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## Tigger19687 (Dec 27, 2014)

GregB said:


> The Ukrainian hives are my staple - see my profile pic.
> Similar to Dr. Leo but deeper.
> We have lots of talking in the "Horizontal" hive sub-forum about this - look up.


I think he means the frame not the hive.
Speaking of which, when your Ukrainian hive frame is full of honey, about how much does it weigh on average.


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## daddyo1 (Aug 3, 2021)

Tigger19687 said:


> I think he means the frame not the hive.
> Speaking of which, when your Ukrainian hive frame is full of honey, about how much does it weigh on average.


Hey "Tigger", if you are referring to me, I did mean the hive. When you are building them it's hard to move them here and there during construction. (I have 7 built and with colonies, 3 on line waiting for colonies, and 6 in "build". I'm a little guy, 65, and have a messed up back from an aircraft crash in Iraq).
If GregB's frames are like my Layans frames, I would guess they are about 7 to 10 pounds when full.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Tigger19687 said:


> Speaking of which, when your Ukrainian hive frame is full of honey, about how much does it weigh on average.


Picture *two *Lang mediums full of honey.
That is the weight.
Look up the Lang weights online.


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## Tigger19687 (Dec 27, 2014)

daddyo1 said:


> Hey "Tigger", if you are referring to me, I did mean the hive. When you are building them it's hard to move them here and there during construction. (I have 7 built and with colonies, 3 on line waiting for colonies, and 6 in "build". I'm a little guy, 65, and have a messed up back from an aircraft crash in Iraq).
> If GregB's frames are like my Layans frames, I would guess they are about 7 to 10 pounds when full.


Ahh sorry I thought you meant the frames. 
Yes I plan on never moving mine if I ever get them built. Just need to get my land bought 👍
Sorry Greg, thought yours were more like 2 deeps.


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## daddyo1 (Aug 3, 2021)

No worries Tigger, just got to my land. Checked the traps, no joy. I really didn't start catching until later in the year last year. I'm just anxious!
Hope you get your land soon, nothing like it! (Lotta work too)
I'll be cracking a cold beer and busting caps soon enough.
Have a great weekend gang!


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Tigger19687 said:


> Sorry Greg, thought yours were more like 2 deeps.


My frames are based this model:


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## BEE J (10 mo ago)

GregB said:


> My frames are based this model:
> View attachment 69265


Mine are just like that except there deep Langs and I cut the ears of the bottom frame! I hope this isn't off the thread topic but how did the bees do on these? Did you talk about it on your personal thread?


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

BEE J said:


> Mine are just like that except there deep Langs and I cut the ears of the bottom frame! I hope this isn't off the thread topic but how did the bees do on these? Did you talk about it on your personal thread?


I have been talking about this frame sizing since I joined the BS years ago.
Just review the Horizontal hive sub-forum. 
This is the only sizing that I do, almost.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

OK, we are talking business... 
Almost want to check back today.
But for sure I need to check back in 1-2 days (in case they take it and I need to flip the traps). There is very energetic scouting going on.

Now days I started doing even two baggies with LGO - extra strong!
I was not done setting the trap yet last Friday - a bee came right away and started sniffing at the trap.

So all these talks of "too much LGO" don't matter much just hang the LGO *outside *the trap. All these talks of "how high should I hang it" also don't matter - do what is the safest and ideally directly on some ground stand.

Stick your trap into most any thicket and call it done.
If there are swarming bees around - they will find it and they will take it, if the trap itself is any good - it better smell like home.


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## BEE J (10 mo ago)

GregB said:


> OK, we are talking business...
> Almost want to check back today.
> But for sure I need to check back in 1-2 days (in case they take it and I need to flip the traps). There is very energetic scouting going on.
> 
> ...


WOW! I haven't seen a bunch of people putting traps on the ground before. So you put the LGO outside of the trap? I never thought of that before. 

I hope that you catch some great swarms here soon!

Best regards, BEEJ🐝🐝🐝


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

BEE J said:


> So you put the LGO outside of the trap?


BeeJ,
I have been doing this and saying the same for years.
People need to start *thinking outside the box* for a change.


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## BEE J (10 mo ago)

GregB said:


> BeeJ,
> I have been doing this and saying the same for years.
> People need to start *thinking outside the box* for a change.


I need to start thinking like that too! I've never heard of anyone doing that! Where did you learn that technique? 
I sprinkled the LGO in the hive and put some around the entrance, but I think the bags might be more effective.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

BEE J said:


> I need to start thinking like that too! I've never heard of anyone doing that!* Where did you learn that technique?*
> I sprinkled the LGO in the hive and put some around the entrance, but I think the bags might be more effective.


I came up with this myself.

You "sprinkled the LGO in the hive" - this is how people overdo the LGO.
Kinda hard to overdo the LGO when it is outside the hive.


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## daddyo1 (Aug 3, 2021)

Oh you sneaky raskal!!!! I don't have to pee on an electrical fence to find out what it feels like! I prefer to learn from others. Thanks for that great tip! (Last year I had a spot so hot when I went to replace the trap after I caught a swarm, there was another swarm in the fork of the tree of the deer stand!!! I even have it on video!)


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## BEE J (10 mo ago)

GregB said:


> I came up with this myself.
> 
> You "sprinkled the LGO in the hive" - this is how people overdo the LGO.
> Kinda hard to overdo the LGO when it is outside the hive.


You never cease to impress me with your knowledge, Greg.  😄
I applied that LGO about a month ago so it might have worn down considerably.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Went ahead and added a second trap at the same location.
About 30 feet apart.
Should work since I only check things once per week - don't want to miss out a second swarm. There are definitely bees here.
I see people standing up traps virtually next to each other and both getting taken.


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## BEE J (10 mo ago)

GregB said:


> Went ahead and added a second trap at the same location.
> About 30 feet apart.
> Should work since I only check things once per week - don't want to miss out a second swarm. There are definitely bees here.
> I see people standing up traps virtually next to each other and both getting taken.
> ...


Nice Greg! I have 3 traps up on our few acres. I have heard that if you put up to many traps in the same area the bees may not be able to decide which one to choose, and then turn them all down. I don't know if I believe this. What are your thoughts?

Thanks, BEEJ


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

BEE J said:


> Nice Greg! I have 3 traps up on our few acres. I have heard that *if you put up to many traps in the same area the bees may not be able to decide which one to choose, and then turn them all down.* I don't know if I believe this. What are your thoughts?
> 
> Thanks, BEEJ


All bunch of non-sense from the so-called experts (all eager to publish books, videos and blogs as quickly as possible while sounding authoritative on the subject - which can be easily faked and hard to verify).

Once you start doing this on your own and not afraid to experiment, you will know this is all non-sense.

Here are SIX traps setup in a single row on an empty house.
At least three of these have swarms as I understand.












Here are TWO traps side-by-side (in a different house, but just nearby). They are being harvested at the season's end - both have bees and lots of honey.











What really matters is - are there swarms for taking?
How high is the swarm density?
What are the swarming timings?
How safe is the location that you can set together several traps without risking them all to thieves?

If no swarms - you can set ten traps and will catch nothing.
If there are many swarms - you can fill up as many traps as you set out.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

The same as this "required tree climbing" thing non-sense.

Here is a good selection of working traps where none are higher than 3-4 feet of the ground.


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## BEE J (10 mo ago)

Thank you for your answer. I am guilty of the whole "put it up high" thing for the traps. Maybe I will try some on the ground next year. Great job on the research and the no-nonsense, straight up replies.
I appreciate it.  

Keep Buzzing, BEEJ🐝🐝🐝


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## Hoot Owl Lane Bees (Feb 24, 2012)

BEE J said:


> Nice Greg! I have 3 traps up on our few acres. I have heard that if you put up to many traps in the same area the bees may not be able to decide which one to choose, and then turn them all down. I don't know if I believe this. What are your thoughts?


I have 12 traps along 1 road in less than a mile. All are at head height hanging in trees using a French cleat system.
Last year I had 12 swarms on this road. 2 so far this year.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

OK, got my season opener too.
1/8
Nice, fat, juicy swarm
Looks like just pollinator grade bee - but I will take it.
Flew into directly where I want them to be.
OAD done, empty frames added, and I can forget of them for a couple of weeks.
Setup a new trap just 2 feet to the left of the taken one.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

Dang it Greg, you beat me again! 90 miles north of me, you should be one week behind. Must be lake effect. Not one sign of scouts in any of my traps.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

AR1 said:


> Dang it Greg, you beat me again! 90 miles north of me, you should be one week behind. Must be lake effect. Not one sign of scouts in any of my traps.


LOL, AR.
To console you, at my other location where heavy scouting was just a week ago - complete silence.
Someone must have split them up OR intercepted the swarm.
Forager bees are flying just next to the traps - indifferently.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

GregB said:


> LOL, AR.
> To console you, at my other location where heavy scouting was just a week ago - complete silence.
> Someone must have split them up OR intercepted the swarm.
> Forager bees are flying just next to the traps - indifferently.


A lady a few miles from me is selling nucs, and the state bee registration shows over 400 hives in this county registered, which suggests that there are a lot more since I doubt most people register (I never have). Where are my scouts!

Past experience suggests that whining, moaning and complaining produces swarms in traps. I'll keep you posted on the effectiveness of this technique. If it doesn't work I'll add grousing and *****ing. I tried dousing for ley lines, but apparently don't have that gift. 

Have never seen a swarm here prior to the last few days in May anyway. My own hive is just now starting to put drones out the door, I saw one this afternoon. So we are still a ways away. Need some hot weather.


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## BEE J (10 mo ago)

Just when you begin to lose all hope, that's when they come.😄 Trust me I know.

There was a little activity around one of my swarm traps this week. I Guess we'll see what happens in the latter part of the swarm season down here in VA. 

I wish a big one AR! Make sure you got a little "bait" of LGO on those traps.

And congrads on the start of your season, Greg! It's funny how different are climates are, Swarm season started many, many, many, weeks ago down here.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

Scout bees today in all the boxes at my house. 5-frame nuc over nuc seems most popular, with 10-frame deep with medium on top second most popular. Top box in both cases is full of used frames.


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## Nicksotherhoney (Jun 10, 2017)

My patio trap now has over a dozen bees flying around it, on it, by it and inside of it.. temperature is currently 89 degrees.. with a storm moving in by Saturday. Fingers crossed for something!


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## C5ac5b9 (Jan 4, 2021)

28 traps out in Ohio. Swarms started about 2 weeks ago. 12 swarms in colonies so far


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## BEE J (10 mo ago)

C5ac5b9 said:


> 28 traps out in Ohio. Swarms started about 2 weeks ago. 12 swarms in colonies so far
> View attachment 69572
> 
> View attachment 69571
> ...


Wow! You have quite the operation going!


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

__





SELECTION OF NEST CAVITY VOLUME AND ENTRANCE SIZE BY HONEY BEES IN FLORIDA on JSTOR


Roger A. Morse, James N. Layne, P. Kirk Visscher, Francis Ratnieks, SELECTION OF NEST CAVITY VOLUME AND ENTRANCE SIZE BY HONEY BEES IN FLORIDA, Florida Scientist, Vol. 56, No. 3 (Summer, 1993), pp. 163-167




www.jstor.org





Upshot, use smaller entrances.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

Okay, this one kind of hacked me off. Raccoon boxes forsooth!



https://d1wqtxts1xzle7.cloudfront.net/6613063/09.HoneybeeNestBoxes-with-cover-page-v2.pdf?Expires=1653648407&Signature=UvTwtu~tZX67MN0QVG-Ka4MzqS79VtyZ3HY6TO86x8G9dZAdhEdatN9WVucTbxTkCzplk3~QhAE0x9gACoamyB1HmBDJC3g7Jkirr2V-cLHZke7bunl6fUtX6ma65coujbRAQ8MvY7zJ6EKVaPsZBgdMYvCVjofk7mil-0sQeNYjBiKQfDwG5qz897l13WZRQcYk-qAorWZXRfCkN1OJN8m3KacPH13ptwoIAJihs~m5PEbxGOp-iNqitv4NTFDoxA9CrVPdg1ZvMjWTqsSpbiU6q9outiW06upDHh-P3r9VzM9qDpYuLV4iHFCjwwCTbegTncrKr0Q6ky3M6AsRBg__&Key-Pair-Id=APKAJLOHF5GGSLRBV4ZA


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## 133573 (Dec 10, 2020)

Haven't seen much of any


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

Well, cold and rainy day Friday, no scouts. Saturday is supposed to be sunny and 90 degrees. Hopeful scouts will return. In light of the two papers I posted above, I closed down some of the bigger entrances.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

AR1 said:


> Okay, this one kind of hacked me off. Raccoon boxes forsooth!
> 
> 
> 
> https://d1wqtxts1xzle7.cloudfront.net/6613063/09.HoneybeeNestBoxes-with-cover-page-v2.pdf?Expires=1653648407&Signature=UvTwtu~tZX67MN0QVG-Ka4MzqS79VtyZ3HY6TO86x8G9dZAdhEdatN9WVucTbxTkCzplk3~QhAE0x9gACoamyB1HmBDJC3g7Jkirr2V-cLHZke7bunl6fUtX6ma65coujbRAQ8MvY7zJ6EKVaPsZBgdMYvCVjofk7mil-0sQeNYjBiKQfDwG5qz897l13WZRQcYk-qAorWZXRfCkN1OJN8m3KacPH13ptwoIAJihs~m5PEbxGOp-iNqitv4NTFDoxA9CrVPdg1ZvMjWTqsSpbiU6q9outiW06upDHh-P3r9VzM9qDpYuLV4iHFCjwwCTbegTncrKr0Q6ky3M6AsRBg__&Key-Pair-Id=APKAJLOHF5GGSLRBV4ZA


Broken link.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

AR1 said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Which is, pretty much, my default approach anywhere.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

GregB said:


> Broken link.


Try again. The upshot is some researchers in Illinois were studying raccoons, and put up a bunch of boxes to simulate dens. No bees when using large entrances. At some point they blocked the entrances and lots of bee swarms showed up getting around the blocks into the much smaller entrances. No swarms with big entrances, lots of swarms with small entrances.


https://d1wqtxts1xzle7.cloudfront.net/6613063/09.HoneybeeNestBoxes-with-cover-page-v2.pdf?Expires=1653789443&Signature=MEZM0bNFA1KOHXwm5VHyZ7aBhee6szRwXltoG8ep~QykQap7~G8B2POF7l90jaWLcZFuVP4NZ-7mQvGehdECU74lDPYqmDoMrurf6YJEPch3wPwcK19JOYm6k68lKu~OdV440swDd6A8LpPCmQzIyAOkwzFIUcdzd9xMdZaF8Mzuvx3sEX9wfcdZYwXbCnPM2i6jYRhypFP6bx~sHfNi5SDa2fZZQFyB6GQgtt28LwG-hH88EUyeCNL0NTTKxxnNCKgGbxhKjKZmyS8RexFAXUnVdYcbUkeNmFiALgSze1x7M8g70rIR3Yq9pi~GZFeClnc44kHZu3XthuaWlXkKHA__&Key-Pair-Id=APKAJLOHF5GGSLRBV4ZA


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

AR1 said:


> Try again. The upshot is some researchers in Illinois were studying raccoons, and put up a bunch of boxes to simulate dens. No bees when using large entrances. At some point they blocked the entrances and lots of bee swarms showed up getting around the blocks into the much smaller entrances. No swarms with big entrances, lots of swarms with small entrances.


AR, Thanks for an interesting ref!
Never seen this one before.

Immediate points of interest:


> Their *inner dimensions*, 30.5 x 33 x 86.4 cm, resulted in a volume of *86.9 L*


So much for the bees NOT taking larger swarm trap. 
Pretty much ALL of the boxes in this experiment are very large (though less than 100L).



> Six 12.5 mm *(0.5 inch) dia. ventilation holes* were bored in the bottom, and two similar holes on each of the left and right sides for a total of ten ventilation holes.


Those 0.5" holes are my standard entry hole. Cool!



> *Nest box height *(r = 1.2,28 df, P > 0.2) ......... *had no effect on bee colonization*. Mean height of all nest boxes was 5.3 + 0.14 m, .......


What I have been saying. 



> Since honey bees are known to prefer south-facing entrances (Seeley and Morse 1978), *the frequency of colonization of all boxes with ventilation holes facing S, SW, or SE (7/16) were compared to all those oriented E and W (75), with no significant differences observed* (X2 =.01,1 df, P > 0.1).


Pretty much so.
All these talks of bee preferences are nothing but human "think-ology".
But since it does not matter, might as well do what suites the swarm trapper the best.


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## daddyo1 (Aug 3, 2021)

Yeah GregB, 
The only swarm I caught so far this year was facing North


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

Well well well. The scouts are back. Put an old double deep and ten old frames in the back yard just yesterday. These guys are alert.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

__





Sci-Hub | Swarm Traps For Survey and Control of Africanized Honey Bees | 10.1093/besa/33.3.155






sci-hub.wf





Upshot: 3 meters high better than 1 meter. 32 liters better than 24 liters. They didn't test larger traps.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

AR1 said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What they ALL fail to investigate is a very simple thing. 
But this is how people fail - at simple things.

What happens when you simply place a pheromone bait alone 3 meters high (while the trap gizmo is located below)?

As far as trapping goes there are the following considerations:
1) a trap needs to be findable
2) a trap needs to be suitable for living (ideally - optimal for living)
3) a swarm willing and able to move into the trap needs to exist
4) once #1, #2 and #3 match up - this should create a successful swarm trapping
5) #1 and #2 are totally different things - this somehow does not register even with the science people - they routinely comingle the ideas #1 and #2 into one and then do the science on top of it

The real issue is that the pheromone placed higher just better distributes the scent.
Once the bees zero onto the location, then the height of the trap is not that important and the bees will take what is available and suitable enough.

For these experiments to be proper it should be setup as:

a pheromone bait placed outside of the hive(s), high enough, and set apart at some distance from the traps.
trap #1 at about the ground level
trap #2 at the height X
trap #3 at the height Y
all of the traps are identical and placed above each other

Then we can see the real preference situation.
But also, IF the traps #2 and #3 removed (as possible alternatives) - then the trap #1 will be the most preferred option (as the only option available).
These trap experimenters just never know any better.


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

GregB said:


> So much for the bees NOT taking larger swarm trap.
> Pretty much ALL of the boxes in this experiment are very large (though less than 100L).


3 swarms captured this year so far, all in a deep + Medium 10F lang setup.
with 3 or so inches of entrance exposed.


GG


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## Nicksotherhoney (Jun 10, 2017)

This swarm is about twenty feet from my trap and they’ve been there since four this afternoon.. I hope they make the move into the trap. It would be unsafe to get on the roof and grab them too close to edge and it’s the third floor up.


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## Nicksotherhoney (Jun 10, 2017)

I guess I just sit and wait. Has anyone else seen this before? They choose a spot to “rest” before finally going in?


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## Litsinger (Jun 14, 2018)

Nicksotherhoney said:


> It would be unsafe to get on the roof and grab them too close to edge and it’s the third floor up.


Cool photo- I've seen swarms move their bivouac location in a fashion I can only describe as triangulation- so you might be right.


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## Nicksotherhoney (Jun 10, 2017)

This swarm is in the same position as yesterday. Again my trap is about twenty feet away and there is still scouts checking it out. What’s the longest anyone has seen bivouac continue? I thought for sure they would’ve taken up residency in my trap or other suitable location. Any insights or thought are greatly appreciated!


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

Nick
what is it about your trap they do not like?
old comb? no screen BB? smallish entrance? off the ground 2 feet or so?

Are they going into the soffit?

GG


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## G3farms (Jun 13, 2009)

Is that a flat roof? easy access?

If so I would sit my empty hive as close to them as possible and take a couple of handfuls of bees and toss them in the hive box. That will get them going and hopefully fanning.

You say your tap is 20' away, and bees are on the third floor...........so your trap hive is on the roof???


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## Nicksotherhoney (Jun 10, 2017)

Gray Goose said:


> Nick
> what is it about your trap they do not like?
> old comb? no screen BB? smallish entrance? off the ground 2 feet or so?
> 
> ...


the trap is an old ten frame hive body with old comb solid bottom board the entrance is about an inch maybe inch an inch and a half..the trap is on my patio table. I did put another old ten frame box with comb onto the trap after I saw the size of the swarm on Thursday..do you think that could cause the delay?


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## Nicksotherhoney (Jun 10, 2017)

I’m on the third floor (top floor) and the trap is on my patio on a patio table..


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

Nicksotherhoney said:


> the trap is an old ten frame hive body with old comb solid bottom board the entrance is about an inch maybe inch an inch and a half..the trap is on my patio table. I did put another old ten frame box with comb onto the trap after I saw the size of the swarm on Thursday..do you think that could cause the delay?


no
I would try a different location, or turn it.

if it was prefect they would be in it already.
I have seen a swarm in a tree, to High, set a trap up an in 2-4 hours they are in.

any funny smalls on the patio? mosquito candles, grill?

they are either in a tie of 2 almost the same choices and deadlocked, or like nada, or trying to get in the soffit.
or some other yet to be defined issue.

I would move the trap, unless it has lots of scouting. even 6 feet and turn 90 degrees.
they for some reason do not think it is "good for them"
hope you get the swarm.

GG


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## Nicksotherhoney (Jun 10, 2017)

Update on the patio swarm/ swarm trap.
After reading what you said 


Gray Goose said:


> no
> I would try a different location, or turn it.
> 
> if it was prefect they would be in it already.
> ...


 I moved the swarm trap 90 degrees and rebooted my sandwich baggy with swarm commander instead of lemon grass oil.. I also bit out a second trap with more old comb and timed them to see how fast it would take them to notice the second trap.. it took two minutes for them to find the second trap then another ten before they started to swarm.. problem is some went in the old trap and some went into the newer placed trap. And all of a sudden the swarming activity stopped and now it’s a stalemate..and the swarm is still on the roof in a dangerous spot to catch them. It’s been a total of seven days now since they first swarmed. No other funny smells other than swarm commander, no grill, no mosquito repellents.. just two swarm traps and bicycles.
I had a thought of putting open brood in one trap in hopes it will persuade them to choose that hive and swarm to it. I don’t see any movement going into the soffit. Do I just wait it out? Any suggestions will be useful. Beekeeping has made me a more patient person.


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## Litsinger (Jun 14, 2018)

Nicksotherhoney said:


> And all of a sudden the swarming activity stopped and now it’s a stalemate..and the swarm is still on the roof in a dangerous spot to catch them. It’s been a total of seven days now since they first swarmed.


Cool photo- that's a lot of bees hanging out at the swarm trap. Is the swarm trap in the sun? I've found that swarms are reticent to move into traps that are located in full sun.


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## Nicksotherhoney (Jun 10, 2017)

Litsinger said:


> Cool photo- that's a lot of bees hanging out at the swarm trap. Is the swarm trap in the sun? I've found that swarms are reticent to move into traps that are located in full sun.


Only in the sun the first part of the day by 2:00 it’s all in the shade.


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## Nicksotherhoney (Jun 10, 2017)

We are suppose to get some rain on Sunday as well hopefully by then they will choose.


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## Litsinger (Jun 14, 2018)

Nicksotherhoney said:


> Only in the sun the first part of the day by 2:00 it’s all in the shade.


It possibly could be getting too warm. I'm a good bit South of you, but I only catch swarms in traps that are in full or dappled shade most of the day.


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## Nicksotherhoney (Jun 10, 2017)

The part of the roof they(Swarm) are on is in full sun all day.


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## Litsinger (Jun 14, 2018)

Nicksotherhoney said:


> The part of the roof they(Swarm) are on is in full sun all day.


Understood- and this may not be the issue. Just thinking out loud given that you've covered the basics.

That said, the locations that swarms select to bivouac and where they choose to live are driven by a different set of objectives, so I'd suggest that their current location is not necessarily indicative of the type of place where they'd like to lay down roots.


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

that is odd behavior.
I would think in time they run out of food and have to go somewhere.
Most of the swarms I see are only hanging out for a day or 2.

maybe time will end it a win for you.

sorry it is so frustrating to wait and watch.

every time you think you have them pegged bees do odd stuff.

GG


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## Tigger19687 (Dec 27, 2014)

So they all went back to the original spot on the roof ?
I'm betting there is a whole up there or they are making a hole.
Seems too weird to stay up there unless they are bearding.

They are up there all night long too yes?


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Tigger19687 said:


> So they all went back to the original spot on the roof ?
> I'm betting there is a whole up there or they are making a hole.
> Seems too weird to stay up there unless they are bearding.
> 
> They are up there all night long too yes?


Most likely they already started the combs.
This is turning into a cut-out job.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Well, well...
So I emptied this hive so to rebuild it over the course of the summer (the outer plywood shell has fallen apart).
Last night and this morning this hive is under heavy scouting.
Fingers crossed.
Whatever happens next few hours and days - I guess for next few weeks this hive will be doing the trap function (no time to work on it anyway).


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## Nicksotherhoney (Jun 10, 2017)

Tigger19687 said:


> So they all went back to the original spot on the roof ?
> I'm betting there is a whole up there or they are making a hole.
> Seems too weird to stay up there unless they are bearding.
> 
> They are up there all night long too yes?


they beard there all day and night and there is still a lot of action between the two traps. there is a storm coming this Monday hopefully that will push them to swarm to a trap. I eventually I lmight have to find access to the roof and spray them
Down into a box.


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## Nicksotherhoney (Jun 10, 2017)

Well after the rain storm we had on Monday two days later they decided to move into one of the two traps.. well about scenery five percent of the swarm did.. there is still some bees bearded by the soffit but not a significant amount..not sure if queen is with them or not. They seem to be functioning like a normal hive just no signs of them bringing in pollen yet. 
question # 1when do I move the trap to my apiary?

Question #2 I was going to put a frame of brood to help with the working numbers and in case of no queen. When would the appropriate time frame for that be?

question #3 when do I do the first inspection/ move more frames into hive? One week after I place the swarm trap in the apiary or give them more time to settle in?


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## Nicksotherhoney (Jun 10, 2017)

I


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

Nicksotherhoney said:


> Well after the rain storm we had on Monday two days later they decided to move into one of the two traps.. well about scenery five percent of the swarm did.. there is still some bees bearded by the soffit but not a significant amount..not sure if queen is with them or not. They seem to be functioning like a normal hive just no signs of them bringing in pollen yet.
> question # 1when do I move the trap to my apiary?
> 
> Question #2 I was going to put a frame of brood to help with the working numbers and in case of no queen. When would the appropriate time frame for that be?
> ...


Most likely the queen went in, or the bees would not have. But I'd leave them at least a few days to get acclimated to the box.
No idea on when to put the frame of brood in. Have heard of people doing it, but have not had to myself.
Same with putting the frames in, no idea. But I personally put the frames in as soon as I put the swarm in. Saves mess.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

Pretty heavy scouting these last 2 days. Hopeful. I have been working on a wood project in my back yard, and keep stopping to peek at the scouts. All day tomorrow too, so hoping a swarm comes in tomorrow so I can get some pics.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Well, mid-June is here and I am still sitting on *1/8.*
If this continues, I will end up with my worst season yet (hope not!).

Good news - I don't really have to catch any bees. 
Busy enough just splitting my own stock.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

GregB said:


> Good news - I don't really have to catch any bees.
> Busy enough just splitting my own stock.


It's a nice change, isn't it?


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## daddyo1 (Aug 3, 2021)

GregB said:


> Well, mid-June is here and I am still sitting on *1/8.*
> If this continues, I will end up with my worst season yet (hope not!).
> 
> Good news - I don't really have to catch any bees.
> Busy enough just splitting my own stock.


I'm exactly the same. Drought where I'm at. I have done some splits as well. I'll head out this morning to feed some sugar water and check for new queens.
I have 1 swarm I caught in town at my house. Nothing at the land.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

AR1 said:


> It's a nice change, isn't it?


It is good to NOT be depending on some random swarm catches.


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## Litsinger (Jun 14, 2018)

Nicksotherhoney said:


> question # 1when do I move the trap to my apiary?
> 
> Question #2 I was going to put a frame of brood to help with the working numbers and in case of no queen. When would the appropriate time frame for that be?
> 
> question #3 when do I do the first inspection/ move more frames into hive? One week after I place the swarm trap in the apiary or give them more time to settle in?


@Nicksotherhoney:

Glad you got them moved in- perseverance paid off. Congratulations.

Q1 - Assuming you are moving the swarm outside their current flight range, I'd say you can move them about any time- but especially once you find eggs. This is the tell that they've settled-in.

Q2 - Again, once they are settled I think you would safely be in a position to add brood. One thing I would be mindful of- if you all are currently in a dearth you may want to offer a bit of feed along with any brood given how long this swarm spent bivouaced. They might be considered what I've heard described as a 'dry' swarm.

Q3 - If this is a prime swarm and you had some drawn comb in the trap, you might have eggs within a few days. If however you are dealing with a cast swarm you may want to give them three weeks before you do a deep dive just to be safe. While it is not always fool-proof, if the colony begins significant pollen foraging you'll have a pretty good idea of whether they are gearing-up for brood rearing.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

I'll be darned if I don't catch a swarm on the Father's Day! 
Granted some bees started heavily scouting my back porch just as we speak.
There is a chance!


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

GregB said:


> I'll be darned if I don't catch a swarm on the Father's Day!


I am quite hopeful, if not today then one day soon. Today is warm, sunny, and they have been scouting the hive for several days now. That would be a nice Father's Day indeed. Been carrying my phone around all day, which I almost never do, hoping for incoming swarm pics.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

GregB said:


> I'll be darned if I don't catch a swarm on the Father's Day!
> Granted some bees started heavily scouting my back porch just as we speak.
> There is a chance!


Well, not today.
Not this F-Day.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

GregB said:


> Well, not today.
> Not this F-Day.


Me neither.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

OK, I am NOT going count this one, but I did get my #2 for the season.
Just took up a swarm message on our local beekeeping board.
Big, fat, and juicy pile of commercial bees.
Will put them to honey production right away.


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## Litsinger (Jun 14, 2018)

GregB said:


> Big, fat, and juicy pile of commercial bees.


That is a good sized swarm...


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Litsinger said:


> That is a good sized swarm...


And btw, they meant to stay there and started on the combs already.
Good thing I showed up before the cut-out project.

The stony column used to have bees inside (another beekeeper killed them and sealed the cracks, as it was impossible to get the bees).
These bee were trying to get inside this time around again.

Anyway, I am a man of easy removals - forget the cut-outs (too messy and laborious).


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## JustBees (Sep 7, 2021)

#16 since apr 16th yesterday this was an apartment cutout

Cut-outs can be easy if you don't have to put stuff back together.
And it's not too hard to pull a siding panel.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

JustBees said:


> Cut-outs can be easy if you don't have to put stuff back together.


I've done a fair share.
I'd rather avoid it if I can help it.

Suppose if the bees seem to be of value (e.g. multi-year survivors) - that makes the cut-out worth the trouble.
But if just some commercial bees recently moved in - I'd let someone else have at it.


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## JustBees (Sep 7, 2021)

Face it there are few multi-year colonies anymore with the collateral damage from the mite and the rate that these commercial queens swarm.

I believe the commercial bees have been bred favoring fast buildup, and this results in a genetic predisposition to swarming.

I have one colony that has swarmed twice this year for no hive reason in both settings. 
This colony is going to have to be split 8 weeks after it goes queenright or they will swarm again i'm sure.
Maybe the new queen will alter this behavior....
Im trying to decide whether to continue this line of bees or requeen them with some different genetics.
Might be a great brood builder, if I can split off a nuc every 8 weeks. 
I would have to requeen the nucs or expect the same from them.

I still have not decided whether I am going to sell bees or honey.
This season it will be bees if anything since all my hives are late starters.


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## Litsinger (Jun 14, 2018)

JustBees said:


> ... this was an apartment cutout


That looks like a lot of new comb- they certainly got off to a roaring start.

Cool photos.

Russ


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

JustBees said:


> I still have not decided whether I am going to sell bees or honey.


Both directions have nuances.
But the bees are lighter to move around (vs. the honey).

However, with the local bee sales, one needs to develop some boutique sales model (special bees, non-standard hives, etc).

It is difficult to compete against the already existing commercial and conventional bee sales. But again, the conventional sales largely *depend *on the per-annual bee losses - so that the people buy again, and again, and again. This is very stupid and ironic business model - but it is working for the sellers! LOL

I can see how a localized, boutique bee seller could instead be focusing on the sales NOT depending on the repeating losses - instead focus on 1)providing the tech support and 2)the bees that don't die year after year.

I am looking at the software subscription model here - nothing wrong with the local bee service subscription. IMO this is a good model and has potential. People would rather avoid repeat buying if they can avoid it.


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

I have caught 6 swarms so far.
used up part of first one to make splits, thinking of using a couple at a pollination gig, the rest get to build comb for me.
had 10 traps out, 2 traps spots had 2, have pulled in 2 traps so far, as I need the gear for splits. both doubles are not reset. I am actually selling 4 NUCs this year and giving away 2 swarms. to Mentees. good units to practice on, treating, splitting, wintering, etc.
IMO swarms here were a bit late.
any more from here are likely under supered Packages and NUCs.

I have a lot of honey frames so thinking of 1 more round of splits.

GG


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Been a very poor year here.
Just 1/8 (one for eight traps).
My worst year was 2/8 so far.

Overall, I got three swarms (one my own).
But the trapping business has been terrible. 
Remaining chances with mid-July now are low.


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## daddyo1 (Aug 3, 2021)

Same here in Moody Texas, caught one swarm in the spring at my house in town. There is a line of thunderstorms headed this way I hope (Before the storm, comes the swarm)
We are roasting, hopefully we'll get some rain.


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## Knoxville1 (8 mo ago)

I put this trap out in the woods near a creek. I put one old brood frame and one without foundation. It was probably there a month, no action whatsoever. I was gone the month of June. I almost took it down before I left, but thought no harm done to leave it. I went to check it the other day, to take it down and burn it because I messed up the dimensions building it last year ( I'm a better wood worker now). Sometime in June my third swarm of the year moved in. Four traps, three swarms this year. It was full of comb and bees. My son in law helped me yesterday and we did a cut out with rubber bands. I got some nice honey, which is my first harvested honey ever. I hauled it out of the woods in the dark, with a bonnet on, stumbling and tripping on things. Then I had to haul it up a steep hill to my truck. It weighed about 40 lbs. I was glad to get it home.


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

I had 10 traps out caught 7 swarms.
was a fairly good year.
One I split up to make NUCs, gave a couple away.
have a couple left at the pollination place.

GG


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

No swarms.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

I saw my backyard trap being scouted several times - no cigar.
Someone must have intercepted their swarm.

Same issue at one of my other sites (scouting and nothing) - I pulled the plug on that - need the equipment.


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## daddyo1 (Aug 3, 2021)

I'll be going to my land today and staying the night with my son and grandson. We had a huge storm go through and here in town we didn't get a drop of rain. Hopefully my land did. I'll check the traps then. If the creeks are running great! If not, I'll be digging the swimming hole with the back hoe.
I brought a 14 frame Layans hive in and set it next the swarm I got in town. They are so mellow that I'm gonna leave them in my backyard for the garden. If they mis-behave I'll move them to the land.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

GregB said:


> Well, I started putting out my traps too.
> Better be ready.
> 
> Over the last 5 years I'd put out 7-8 traps every season.
> ...


Oh, btw. 
This year 2022 was my worst trapping year - one swarm.
2022 -1
2021 - 6
2020 - 9
2019 - 2
2018 - 4
2017 - 3
Average - 4.1


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

GregB said:


> Oh, btw.
> This year 2022 was my worst trapping year - one swarm.
> 2022 -1
> 2021 - 6
> ...


This year was par for me. Zero, as usual. I have caught 2, 1, 0, 0, 0.
That does not include swarms from my own hives. Got one of those last year into a trap, and have caught several swarms from my own hives in the trees in the back yard.


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

AR1 said:


> This year was par for me. Zero, as usual. I have caught 2, 1, 0, 0, 0.
> That does not include swarms from my own hives. Got one of those last year into a trap, and have caught several swarms from my own hives in the trees in the back yard.


maybe try different spots.
ask a fireman or sherif where they get swarm calls from and try some over there.
my zeros get moved the next year.
every trap is in a new spot or where I got one before.

GG


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Gray Goose said:


> maybe try different spots.
> ask a fireman or sherif where they get swarm calls from and try some over there.
> my zeros get moved the next year.
> every trap is in a new spot or where I got one before.
> ...


Could be just a bad year for any old reason.
All of my places are reliable swarm catching spots - flunked this year.


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## JustBees (Sep 7, 2021)

I collected 16 colonies this year.

NONE were a swarm trap product. None of my traps were productive this year.

My mentor caught one of his own in a trap.


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

GregB said:


> Could be just a bad year for any old reason.
> All of my places are reliable swarm catching spots - flunked this year.


the swarm casting hives may have mited out.
either the tree is waiting for the next one or the yard has NUCs this spring.
maybe next year....

GG


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Gray Goose said:


> *the swarm casting hives may have mited out.*
> either the tree is waiting for the next one or the yard has NUCs this spring.
> maybe next year....
> 
> GG


I feel some new beekeepers in the area just quit - those are most often the swarm suppliers in my area.


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## JustBees (Sep 7, 2021)

I had bee haver's from my club, call me to capture their own swarms. :^)
I had one gal try to buy back her bees after I collected 2 swarms at her neighbors house. 8^|
These were the first swarms I collected this year and those bees swarmed again in 60 days! (that line of bees must have doubled up on the swarm gene)
Not a queen I will be keeping.....


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

JustBees said:


> I had bee haver's from my club, call me to capture their own swarms. :^)
> I had one gal try to buy back her bees after I collected 2 swarms at her neighbors house. 8^|
> These were the first swarms I collected this year and those bees swarmed again in 60 days! (that line of bees must have doubled up on the swarm gene)
> *Not a queen I will be keeping.....*


Though if the owner keeps them in a single box through the summer (never know!) - the queen is really not to blame.


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## ursa_minor (Feb 13, 2020)

JustBees said:


> I had bee haver's from my club, call me to capture their own swarms. :^)
> I had one gal try to buy back her bees after I collected 2 swarms at her neighbors house.


At least she offered to buy them, up here local people are so uniformed about bee swarms if you tell them you caught a swarm, possibly from a neighbours hives, they think you should give them back as you essentially stole them LOL. I put up a swarm trap on a field across from a small beekeeper but on our property and even my SIL thought I was baiting his bees. All swarms are hived under the "hush, hush" mentality.


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## JustBees (Sep 7, 2021)

GregB said:


> Though if the owner keeps them in a single box through the summer (never know!) - the queen is really not to blame.


That was an April swarm capture! I collected them on 4-16. 
Set them up in the yard with a couple jars of feed and They swarmed again on 6-22!


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## JustBees (Sep 7, 2021)

ursa_minor said:


> At least she offered to buy them, up here local people are so uniformed about bee swarms if you tell them you caught a swarm, possibly from a neighbours hives, they think you should give them back as you essentially stole them LOL. I put up a swarm trap on a field across from a small beekeeper but on our property and even my SIL thought I was baiting his bees. All swarms are hived under the "hush, hush" mentality.


Yeah that felt really wierd, but she was not paying attention to her bees....
However the bees pulled a fast one on her by being extra swarmy.
They certainly surprised me swarming so quick.

That makes me wonder how she got bees to have a colony that would swarm in April. 
(club bees here just became available the same weekend they swarmed)
The local breeder queens aren't available til April.
So her bees likely came from someone who was pollinating.
Working back extrapolating what the bees did, that colony was started Feb 16 or earlier.


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