# Melting beeswax -equipment question



## Goldenman (Nov 6, 2013)

I would like help on equipment that I need to purchase.

1. I would like to purchase a tank for creaming honey.
2. I would like to process (liquefy and melt) cappings and beeswax.

To save costs, I would like to know if I could get by with just purchasing the Maxant honey creamer, which is basically their bottling tank with a agitator on top. The agitator would be removed when processing beeswax. would this bottling tank work to melt cappings? The difference from their liquefier is that is doesn't have two valves but I think I could just strain using the one valve. Slumgum comes out first.. When wax comes along, I could put that into my fiberglass tubs. Also I wouldn't use the no drip valve, just the regular ball valve. We already have a wax spinner to extract honey so that isn't a priority.

Can someone with experience tell me if a bottling tank 15gallon would work to process the beeswax for approximately 50 hives?


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## KevinR (Apr 30, 2010)

I'm not sure how the sun is in Canada, but I'd just run them through a solar melter. They are easy enough to set up and deal with.

I'm not sure how hard it would be to get the wax residue out of the tank when it was time to deal with honey.

I'd like to here more information on how other people deal with their wax. Including rendering down culled and/or old combs.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

I think it was Roland that said `once you use a tank for wax that's all you'll use it for in the future'. Wax is pretty messy.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Close enough on the quote. I would not suggest using the same tank. 

Crazy Roland


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## Goldenman (Nov 6, 2013)

Ok if I need two tanks, does a liquifier do the trick for both separating cappings and then remelting wax for further processing?


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

You may be interested in the photos of _odfrank's _steam wax melter in this thread:

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?290815-Changing-out-old-comb&p=1018282#post1018282


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## red (Jan 15, 2013)

I bought a liquefier tank from Dadant when I first started with bees. The ad said you could liquefy honey, bottle and melt wax all from the same tank. The ad is right on the first use but once you melt wax in it all you have is an expensive wax tank. This is the only piece of equipment I have bought so far that I feel was a waste of my money. However I will say that good advertising works.


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## jrbbees (Apr 4, 2010)

I don't think you want a tank for making creamed honey. You want to mix the seed crystals and the package into the final container. It will then go to creamed honey in that container.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Goldenman said:


> Ok if I need two tanks, does a liquifier do the trick for both separating cappings and then remelting wax for further processing?


With 50 hives I am wondering if you are paying for labor or doing it yourself? There are plenty of people throwing out cast iron bath tubs and radiators that you could run a tap off your hot water boiler if you have that form of heat in your house. If not boilers are cheap on craigslist.


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## SS1 (Jun 1, 2013)

I can only guess you havent rendered any of your wax yet??? when you do you will quickly understand as everyone else has posted... whatever you use for your wax, will immediately become useless for anything else.
Go to yard sales and look for large pots or old crockpots, or go to your fav chain store and buy a canning pot. Pick up some cheesecloth, scrounge a couple of plastic cooking spoons to stir with... when your done rendering.. you clean those things up the best you can and set them aside until your ready to render again.
Also...
The size of your pot is dependent on how much wax you need to render.. your volume of wax will not approach your volume of honey. Heating a large pot may not be cost effective if you have a dozen hives or less. I render, and set the blocks aside until I have a dozen or so, then re render to purify. you will also be amazed at how much the volume changes once the wax begins to melt and you begin filtering/straining.


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## KevinR (Apr 30, 2010)

I still say that the solar melter should do the majority of what you need/want to do with the wax. How many pounds of wax are you harvesting per year? You should be able to put a metal screen/lathe with a single sheet of paper towel. Then dump the cappings/comb on top. Under that you have your catch basin, which has water in it to catch the drippings. Once you have the refined cappings, you can clean it up more. If required. If you are trading it in for foundation then I'm sure they will be happy with how clean it is.

Now if sun in Canada isn't as hot as it is in Tennessee, you might have to resort to steam/boiling water. I'm looking at building a box that I can pump steam into via wallpaper removal tool. If it works well, then I'll look at upgrading to a real steam generator. In the meantime, I'd take the one with the lowest input costs. 

Also, I like to have passive things that work for me, while I'm doing something else.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

>I still say that the solar melter should do the majority of what you need/want to do with the wax.

The problem I have faced in recent years is that the die off generates the frames I want to renovate during the winter after the solar wax melting season has ended. My steam box works year around. 

>I'll look at upgrading to a real steam generator.

What brand is affordable?


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

I had a bung that accepts a 1" npt immersion heater welded into a beer keg and that will make a lot of steam. I had two bungs for two elements actually.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

odfrank said:


> What brand is affordable?


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wagner-Power-Products-282018-1-Gallon-Wallpaper-Steamer-/360783028130

Wagner. works great.


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## papa (Oct 4, 2010)

I obtained one of these from a widow selling her husband's beekeeping equipment:

http://www.amazon.com/Granite-0707-...4213610&sr=8-1&keywords=canning+double+boiler

I also use a propane turkey cooker burner to heat the water. The pot that came with the cooker I'm using to make candy boards.

http://www.acehardware.com/product/...KPID=11021744&cagpspn=pla&CAWELAID=1049365733


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Odfrank is on to something with his steam. Just make sure you have pressure relief valves that function. 
I am still searching for a better way than the old submerged grape press method for old comb. 

Crazy Roland


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

>Just make sure you have pressure relief valves that function.

My masterpiece does not involve contained pressure. The steam just shoots into the tank which has an open drain and steam leaks from the lid that is just held on by gravity. 

>Wagner. works great.
Ace, I need a real man's steam generator, not a tinker toy. I bet my two pressure cookers produce more steam than that.


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

There is a youtube video somewhere of a beekeeper in London (England) who put the steam outlet from a wallpaper stripper (as Ace showed in post #14) directly into an old deep, covered by an outer cover. The set up had some kind of angled bottom board and the wax ran out of the front. 
Goldenman, what method are you using to uncap before you extract? What volume of uncappings do you have? Do you anticipate running more than 50 hives?


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

odfrank said:


> Ace, I need a real man's steam generator, not a tinker toy. I bet my two pressure cookers produce more steam than that.


You didn't give me a btu rating, but don't sell it short. There is a 1500 watt element in the thing and that is equivalent to the large burner on an electric stove that you might use for your pressure cooker. Time of use might be a factor because you can only put so much water in it. It is good for an hour or more.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Here is the steamer video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbx-Dv5iLmA

My pressure cookers are good for over two hours which is more than one batch takes. I chose them because I did not want to invest in equipment with only one purpose and use. My propane burners can be used for turkey frying or what have you. And less likely to break down.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

More:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NJN0G4_oYM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9B31PT5fBPM

And these will sterilize the inside of the ebox also.


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## KevinR (Apr 30, 2010)

Might want to be careful on the pressure cookers... While I suppose the risk is minimal. Most of them warn against cooking over a turey fryer. I'm not sure if it causes the bottom to weaken or....

I just know that my pressure cooker came with a giant card saying not to do it. LOL 

Also, the bottoms on my turkey fryers are definitely distorted... So, I'd say proceed with caution....


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## Goldenman (Nov 6, 2013)

I'm planning in running 50 hives and I do not have hired help. I'm running solo on this mission. So why is a liquified such a bad idea? Is it money lost? I prefer to do my wax inside during the cold winter months so outside doesn't really help much...


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## KevinR (Apr 30, 2010)

I don't know what you mean by Liquified..  It's a prereq that the wax is going to be in liquid form to collect, filter, and mold it. It just comes down to how you want to get it into that form. Steam, Boiling water, Solar heat, etc....

Steam is probably the "easiest" to do inside. Your not exposing the wax to an open flame and your not dealing with gallons of boiling water. Solar is the best passive means, but it does require the sun to be shining.

Like previously posted, my initial plan is like the youtube videos. Cut a hole in the top of the lid, connect the hose from a wall paper steamer. Place tray under hive body and cross fingers.

Once I get more excited about it.. I'll weld up a sealable tank with drain spout.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

>Might want to be careful on the pressure cookers...

Yes, they probably will have a limited lifespan as I need to heat them hot to make a lot of steam. But other than cracking and spilling there should be little risk. Checking Craigslist for replacements.


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## Goldenman (Nov 6, 2013)

Kevin, its a term used for boilers that you throw cappings in and separate honey, wax and slumgum. maxant has such a product on their site.

http://www.maxantindustries.com/wax.html


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## KevinR (Apr 30, 2010)

Goldenman, 

I didn't realize that you were still asking about the specific product or more of the overall process.

I'd expect that the device will do fine, but you need to figure out the math and find out what your return on investment is. Assuming you care about that.

If you are only doing 20lbs of wax a year, that 600+ bucks might be better spent elsewhere. However, if your doing 500lbs a week...

I have close to 60 hives and I still haven't bought one. 

Assuming that my solar melter is full or it's too cold. I put my comb/burr in a bucket, then freeze for a couple days to kill shb/wax moths, then into a sealed barrel. Once I have enough wax saved up. I usually boil it.. But IMO that takes more effort that I want to do for the small amount of wax that I get. Labor to Wax ratio that is...

I plan on using the steamer method. If I can just plug in the cord and hose, then walk away.. It would be time well spent for a $50 steamer and a hole cut in a migratory top. The pressure cooker might be a good option, but I picture an exciting spinning ball of steam death when the bottom ruptures. Then again it might just fall off the stand and spray steam into the air for a couple seconds.

You can also look at a steam generator that is used buy the steam powered uncapping knives. Like on the Cowen.


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## Goldenman (Nov 6, 2013)

Kevin, I actually do save wax until
I have a lot ready to be processed. Right now I have over 4 barrels to process.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

ODfrank wrote:

and steam leaks from the lid that is just held on by gravity. 

And that is your pressure relief valve, well done.

I doubt if a 1500 watt electric calrod can come close to ODfrank's propane burners.

Crazy Roland


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

An electric appliance using 1500 watts converts to 5,100 BTU/hr. Typical propane cookers similar to what is in Ollie's photos seem to be in the 54,000 BTU/hr range. Ollie's photos show two burners, each with its own pressure cooker, feeding steam to a single melter box.

I would say that since the electric element is enclosed by the appliance there is close to 100% conversion to steam. The propane burners likely lose more efficiency in conversion to steam as the burners are not enclosed by the cooker, but clearly the dual propane setup produces many times the steam possible with the electric cooker.


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## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

Ok Goldenman,

Here is your answer. Yes you can use a bottling tank.:shhhh: I've been using a 500 lb maxant bottler for 20+ years. I melt wax with it in the winter then wipe it out when I'm done and bottle honey. The trick with the wax is you have to make a screen to place in front of the drain hole in the tank to hold the slum back. I had taken SS perforated metal and made 3x5x3 u-shape basket that goes from top to bottom of the tank. This way the wax can drain without the slum being a problem. Your honey can be drained off as you melt the cappings.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Dang, I had a bunch of these commercial stainless steam kettles last year. I advertised them for months with not one reply. They sold at auction for $500.ea 40 to 80 gallon sized. They would have made a *dandy* wax melter...or for brewing beer...They run about $15,000. new
Glad I kept a few










This was a 60 gallon with 1 1/2" drain. I kept a 10 with 1 1/2" drain and a 30 gallon with a 3" drain


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## KevinR (Apr 30, 2010)

I was at a auction Friday, two of them sold for 100 bucks per... I "almost" bought one, but I didn't have the storage nor steam equipment to make use of them. Not sure I could fit 2 of them in the back of the truck...


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

KevinR said:


> I was at a auction Friday, two of them sold for 100 bucks per... I "almost" bought one, but I didn't have the storage nor steam equipment to make use of them. Not sure I could fit 2 of them in the back of the truck...


Dang, just set up a hot water tank and circ pump..or fill double wall with oil and pressure valve and use propane burner on low. I think something like that would work for warming honey or melting wax?


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## KevinR (Apr 30, 2010)

Yea I'm sure that something like that would work.... I just had a truck full of gear... I bought a small cnc mill, a rockwell 10"unisaw, an incubator and a hobart welder.... Spent 400 bucks... LOL, was all I could do to fit it in the back of the truck....

I looked at the steam kettle and like.. you know I could brew beer in that... Then I was like.. How will I get it home.. LOL


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Where there is a will there is a way. Or you could use my motto:

There ain't a horse that couldn't be rode..there isn't a trailer I can't overload


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

Ron please can you post a picture of your 3x5x3 basket and how it fits in the tank. I am refurbishing 2 maxant 42 gallon bottlers, this might be an excellent use for one of them. Thanks.


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## Seven Hills (Apr 7, 2011)

I use my Blazer solar
Sorry about pics they won't turn right side up.


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

My solution for handling wax is low tech, low cost, and very effective. I purchased a used 100 gallon stainless steel honey tank and fitted it with a stainless strainer from Kelley. The strainer can be adjusted higher or lower into the tank as needed. I put a nylon strainer cloth on top of the stainless strainer for the finest filtering. then I put another stainless strainer on top so that the two strainers are separated about 2 inches. Then I uncap directly into the top of the honey tank. The cappings drop onto the top strainer and over a period of about 3 days will be almost completely dry. The honey runs into the bottom of the tank where I let it settle for several days, then run it out via a honey gate directly into jars. I do not heat my honey, but with the floral type I have here, granulation is not an issue.

Once the cappings have dripped dry, I drop them into a stainless double boiler type melting pan I made that holds about 10 gallons. With the heat set properly, the cappings melt just about as fast as I can dump them into the pan. I put about an inch of water into the bottom of the pan to trap debris and any remaining honey and to make the wax cake release easily when cool.


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## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

Adrian Quiney WI said:


> Ron please can you post a picture of your 3x5x3 basket and how it fits in the tank. I am refurbishing 2 maxant 42 gallon bottlers, this might be an excellent use for one of them. Thanks.


Sorry not much luck posting picture on here, but if you have a smartphone I can shoot you some pic. from mine. Just PM me your #.
Ron


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