# Any problem mixing Italian bees with Carniolan bees???



## Andrew Dewey (Aug 23, 2005)

None.

It is doubtful in the US that either race would be pure any way. Much selection is done these days by color - dark=carni, light=Italian.


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## Levi's Bees (Feb 7, 2014)

i have heard that if u squash the old queen on the new queen's cage it will help with reintroducing the new queen. by the pheromones being mixed as the old pheromone phasing out new will be introduced.


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## gladiolus (Dec 12, 2014)

May work, don't see much advantage. 
Be darn sure you don't smear old queen anywhere else in or on hive. That can and will cause problems


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

if the new ones are not italian run smaller entrance sizes until the new colonies are strong to reduce chance of robbing, probably a good idea to do this anyway.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Italians are robbing bandits. That is probably the only issue.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

I have had strong hives of Sue Cobey derived carni's robbed nearly to death in July/August by my mostly Italian bees - the carni hives were outnumbered by about 10-1 though. Robber screens pretty much solved the problem.


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## gladiolus (Dec 12, 2014)

Robbing isn't as large a problem in spring.Will not hurt


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## garbear (Dec 11, 2012)

I am not worried @ robbing.. I am going to put robber screens on all the hives----- just want to know of Carni queen will be accepted by Italian workers---- caring for brood, etc......

Thanks Gary


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## gladiolus (Dec 12, 2014)

Italian and Carnies seem to match well. Nearly all are crosses anyway.Africans and some Russians may be another story though.Do more worry less


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## jbuzz (Jan 27, 2015)

I use a introduction cage when placing a Carniolan queen in a Italian colony. Have had great results. Once she is accepted they will rear brood for her.


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## gladiolus (Dec 12, 2014)

An introduction cage is a very good tool. When introducing queens there a lot of variables with time of year, flow etc. we must use the right method for the time and still need some luck


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

In about a month or 2 the hive will completely change over to the new 
bees if the new queen got accepted. I once had a hard time requeening from
carnis to the Italians and the other way around. A cage queen introduction is your
best bet otherwise put them in a 2 frame weak nuc with all the nurse bees to introduce the new queen.


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## Walter Lawler (Apr 12, 2013)

beepro said:


> In about a month or 2 the hive will completely change over to the new
> bees if the new queen got accepted. I once had a hard time requeening from
> carnis to the Italians and the other way around. A cage queen introduction is your
> best bet otherwise put them in a 2 frame weak nuc with all the nurse bees to introduce the new queen.


Good thing I (and the carni queen in troduced into my itialian hive) didn't know this lol. I had no more issue with this, than with the initial package. See ignorance is bliss cause I never even considered it lol. 

Walt


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

I think the introduction issue is sometimes just colony dependant and not based on the race of the bees. I've re-queened Italian colonies with Carni queens with no problem and other times, with a fair amount of problems. Now, I always remove the old queen (assuming she's in there and it's not just a queenless colony), wait a day and introduce the new queen in a cage. I leave her cage corked for a day before popping the cork and letting them chew her out. If they are biting at her cage when I go back to pull the cork, I leave it in longer. Usually, the introduction goes just fine.

In my experience, I've had more problems with queenless (or thought to be queenless) colonies than with colonies where I proactively choose to re-queen.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

*Any problem mixing Italian bees with Carniolan bees???*


I'm sure they'd have a communication problem as they speak different languages :lookout:


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## Walter Lawler (Apr 12, 2013)

snl said:


> *Any problem mixing Italian bees with Carniolan bees???*
> 
> 
> I'm sure they'd have a communication problem as they speak different languages :lookout:


lol naw they automatically know the others language, kinda an international telepathy?! Mmm where did carniolans come from originally?
Walt


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

walt, the mountains of eastern central Europe , sort of present day Slovenia is the origin of the carniolian race of bees.


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## Walter Lawler (Apr 12, 2013)

mathesonequip said:


> walt, the mountains of eastern central Europe , sort of present day Slovenia is the origin of the carniolian race of bees.


Thanks for that. I guess that is why they seem to be more cold tolerant. 

Walt


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

Depends on where you are. Down here we get a dearth in July and August. Carniolan bees shutdown and reduce their numbers. The Italians don't and rob the Carnis blind.


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## Deepsouth (Feb 21, 2012)

you shouldn't have any issue at all. Honey bees in the USA are practically all the same these days. Its pretty much impossible to know what the trait of each bee is before you see them in action. Some are nice, some are mean, some make strong colonies, some don't, some handle cold, some don't. and this is all from the same Apiary.

I see it all the time. People buy Buckfast thinking they will be the nicest bee around and they end up being the meanest, or buy Carniolans thinking they will winter well and winter with smaller clusters and do the complete opposite.

Best bet is to buy your bees from a well reputable breeder and you should be just fine.


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

:applause:


Deepsouth said:


> you shouldn't have any issue at all. Honey bees in the USA are practically all the same these days. Its pretty much impossible to know what the trait of each bee is before you see them in action. Some are nice, some are mean, some make strong colonies, some don't, some handle cold, some don't. and this is all from the same Apiary.


this is the absolute truth!!!


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## gfbees13 (Sep 25, 2014)

Deepsouth said:


> Honey bees in the USA are practically all the same these days.


Maybe we should omit "Italian" or "Carniolan" and just label them "bees". 

Beek1: What type of bees are these?
Beek2: Bees
Beek1: Huh?
Beek2: Yep, just bees.
Beek1: :scratch: 
Beek2: :lpf:


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## spammy_h (Jul 2, 2014)

I've heard that the biggest disputes break out when they start discussing sauce recipes. Garlic vs. Oregano tends to be the biggest source of contention. J/K.


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## beepeep (Feb 8, 2015)

Similar topic question. I had a weak Italian hive and a very strong Carniolan hive. Would losing the Italian queen or a having poor winter Italian hive conditions prompt the Italians to move in with the Carniolan? Are there any general experiences with a hive moving in with a neighbor hive peaceably?
In the photo from 2/22/15. The queen is dark. To her right are lighter colored bees. To her rear are darker. Is this new bees with older bees? Our weather has been strange but enough that bees are reproducing through the winter?


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

beepeep , a virgin queen mates with something like 15 to 25 drones. they are 1/2 sisters that look something like their fathers.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Maybe we should omit "Italian" or "Carniolan" and just label them "bees". 

I feel that way every time someone posts a picture of their honey bees and asks what kind they are. "honeybees" I want to say...


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