# Weighing hive with bathroom scale.



## gnor (Jun 3, 2015)

Try tipping your hive up on its edge, and slip the scale under on a piece of plywood. Then tip it up until all the weight is on the scale, and you know what your hive weighs. That's from Michael Palmer. Not sure if he has a youtube video or not.


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

I've seen a ****eyed contraption that acts as a platform that goes on a bathroom scale, and has a mirror so you can read the scale with a hive on it. 

I gave that some thought and bought a 330 pound digital hanging scale for about $50. Run a strap around the hive and hang it from the scale. I have a lever rigged up to do the lifting.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

gnor said:


> Try tipping your hive up on its edge, and slip the scale under on a piece of plywood. Then tip it up until all the weight is on the scale, and you know what your hive weighs. That's from Michael Palmer. Not sure if he has a youtube video or not.


This work well I learned it from a commercial beek long time ago. He wanted to take hives south for the winter that were heavy enough to contain some feed and not too heavy to cumulativly cause him trouble at the scales. No pallets or forklifts in his outfit.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Am I suppose to double this number?

Yes.

> How accurate is just weighing the back? 

It is about as accurate as the honey is evenly distributed. But it's not a bad estimate. If all the honey is in the front it will be low. If all the honey is in the back it will be high.


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## burns375 (Jul 15, 2013)

I use a hanging scale. The Best method is to have the entire hive on scale. This is always not practical and easy to do. The next best method is to measure both sides and take average. So if 1 side is 56 and other side is 48. The hive weight *IS* 104 lbs by physics.

Like MB said measure just one side...then you are assuming the honey is evenly distributed, which I have found to be true about 60% of the time. 

The other concern is front to back measurement is moment arm length. If your landing board is 4 inches you need to make sure the hanging scale attached to the back is 4 inches long too. Otherwise you will get incorrect measurement. 

Here is bending moment equations. Being an engineer sometimes has its advantages


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Our state apiarist just had a talk tonight and he said that he doesn't weight, he counts honey frames. In a double deep he wants four full honey frames in bottom box + eight in the top box. Something around 90 pounds of honey and around 110-120 total weight. Weighing the way most of you guys do sounds like a chore... tipping hives, straps, contraptions... forget that mess.

For $10, this thing has a hook that works well enough for snagging the edge of the bottom board. Hook and tip from the back and from the front. Add the weights. Voila. 110# capacity so unless you're running triples (and even then) you will probably be just fine). You know if you weigh 110# tipping from each side you're probably good to go. 

http://www.amazon.com/Camry-Tempera...&qid=1441340129&sr=8-2&keywords=luggage+scale


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## WWW (Feb 6, 2011)

rookie2531 said:


> Am I suppose to double this number? How accurate is just weighing the back? I had to pick up the back about 4-5 inches high to get the scale under it.
> 
> I'm thinking of setting one hive up where it weighs the back edge all the time. If the hive is level on the scale, will that be more accurate?


Rookie,
Having the back lifted up 4 to5 inches is going to affect the weight because the higher you lift it the lighter to reading, in other words if you lifted that edge to where you were balancing the hive on the opposite edge then the side you are lifting would weigh zero.

It is best to only lift the edge about 1/2" or less for weighing then double the reading for a fairly close overall weight, an easy way that I found to do this is with a hanging scale and lever, there are various methods out there which work equally as well but this hanging scale and lever is fast, light, portable, and user friendly. I can easily keep track of when the flows begin and end as well as the overall weight of the hive year around. Knowing that the base weight of my 3 deep hives is 80 pounds I have a point of reference to gauge the amount of stores in the hive, I like them to weigh 150 to 160 pounds going into winter. 


This is a 300 pound Hanson hanging scale which I purchased from Ebay (a 200 pound scale would work fine) and two pieces of wood I found which I bolted together to form a hinge for the lifting lever.


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## rkereid (Dec 20, 2009)

As mentioned by gnor above, Mike Palmer's method is very straightforward and accurate. You can do it with a bathroom scale or similar. Before breaking down any boxes (so they are still propolized together), tip the hive to one side, slip the scale under, then tip the hive back to the opposite side so it is all resting on the center of the scale. It is not that difficult. I do plenty of hives every fall between 100 on up to 200+ lbs, and I am not that big of a guy. You get an accurate weight and it is quick, which is great if you have lots of hives to weigh.

Mike has some pictures, maybe he will post.


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

WWW said:


> This is a 300 pound Hanson hanging scale which I purchased from Ebay (a 200 pound scale would work fine) and two pieces of wood I found which I bolted together to form a hinge for the lifting lever.


Bill,

Clever rig. If someone wanted to lift the whole hive from the top they could rig something similar, but it would have to be a lot heavier. The lever would need to have a lot more travel, 4-5 inches on the lifting end, to deal with stretch of the straps, and it would need to be tall enough to deal with the tallest hive, so it would be a lot clunkier. (Yeah, mine is clunkier.)


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## WWW (Feb 6, 2011)

Phoebee,
Thanks, if one was to lift the whole hive to weigh it the lifting rig would definitely need to be hefty which would no doubt lead me to avoid using it, simpler seems to be better in most cases.

rkereid,
Yes the bathroom scale will work if done correctly but I just don't like tilting these big 3 deep hives of mine and I really have no option but to weigh from the backside due to my hives being close to each other on the stand and the overall height when supered. Even if I did have the space to tilt the hives sideways I find the lever and hanging scale easy and quick however everyone has their own preferences. As far as accuracy is concerned, is an exact to the pound weight necessary? If I am within a few pounds of exact weight using my hanging scale that is close enough for me to determine the condition of the hive. I am not writing this to be contrary, just trying to be helpful.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

My hive scale is similar to WWW but I tug it directly without the lever. Mine has a mechanical slide that marks the reading so I dont have to watch the scale, just observer when the bottom clears the mount. It takes little more than a minute to weigh a hive. Commonly one side may be 5 lbs heavier than the other with rarely 10 pounds difference.

A problem with counting frames of capped honey is that they get well stuck in in the autumn and you disturb the hive and risk the queen.

Counting grunts while directly lifting the back or side of the hive with your hand is not very exacting as some people grunt quite loudly with little exertion  My hands and fingers dont like it at all.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

rkereid said:


> Mike has some pictures, maybe he will post.


http://s241.photobucket.com/user/frenchhill/media/packagescale1.jpg.html 


http://s241.photobucket.com/user/frenchhill/media/packagescale2.jpg.html


http://s241.photobucket.com/user/frenchhill/media/weighinghives1.jpg.html


http://s241.photobucket.com/user/frenchhill/media/weighinghives2.jpg.html


http://s241.photobucket.com/user/frenchhill/media/weighinghives3.jpg.html


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## rookie2531 (Jul 28, 2014)

Thanks for all the great tips. I do have to say that my hive stands are like floor joists that are about 13" apart. So the front and the bottom of the hives are not resting near the front and back edges. 13" centered, so each end is about 5" from the ends. 

Looks like I'll be investing in one of those hanging scales. And scoot the non weighed edge close to the stand and pick up the hive 1/2".

The main reason I want to weigh them, is to see if they are gaining, losing and how fast. More importantly, comb drawing. But if I have one of these, winter weight is a bonus.


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

Check this out:

http://windmillhillfarms.com/HefterInstructions.pdf

If you have a number of hives, this thing saves a lot of time. You could torque it from both sides and average the numbers. 

You can calibrate the torque wrench device against a known hive weight and come up with a multiplier for accurate weights. I used to use a cherry picker and a bow scale. I'll be changing to the Honey Hefter.


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## rkereid (Dec 20, 2009)

I do agree with you in regard to hives that are close together, such as the ones in your picture. I have a few stands that are like that and I have to guesstimate them because of it. But otherwise most of mine give just enough room. 

Many of mine are weighed as 5 to 6 medium height and up to 200 lbs, and they aren't too bad. It's not as hard as it looks. Bottom line is if it works and you are happy with it, do it.




WWW said:


> rkereid,
> Yes the bathroom scale will work if done correctly but I just don't like tilting these big 3 deep hives of mine and I really have no option but to weigh from the backside due to my hives being close to each other on the stand and the overall height when supered. Even if I did have the space to tilt the hives sideways I find the lever and hanging scale easy and quick however everyone has their own preferences. As far as accuracy is concerned, is an exact to the pound weight necessary? If I am within a few pounds of exact weight using my hanging scale that is close enough for me to determine the condition of the hive. I am not writing this to be contrary, just trying to be helpful.


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## rkereid (Dec 20, 2009)

I wish I could afford to put one of these under every hive!


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

rkereid said:


> I wish I could afford to put one of these under every hive!


I started working on something last year, but got sidetracked. I've cannibalized several cheap digital bathroom scales ... the feet are load cells. I can get a reading off of these but not with the original electronics. A friend of mine made up some strain amplifier/computer boards about the size of two postage stamps, but I have not got them running yet. The goal is to make really inexpensive hive scales so ordinary beekeepers could afford a scale under each hive.


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## rkereid (Dec 20, 2009)

It's very useful to get a daily weight on at least a couple of hives. You know exactly when the nectar flows start and end. I go out to my home yard every evening when all the foragers are about in, and get weights on two hives that are sitting on scales.



Phoebee said:


> I started working on something last year, but got sidetracked. I've cannibalized several cheap digital bathroom scales ... the feet are load cells. I can get a reading off of these but not with the original electronics. A friend of mine made up some strain amplifier/computer boards about the size of two postage stamps, but I have not got them running yet. The goal is to make really inexpensive hive scales so ordinary beekeepers could afford a scale under each hive.


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## billabell (Apr 19, 2010)

Phoebee said:


> The goal is to make really inexpensive hive scales so ordinary beekeepers could afford a scale under each hive.


That would be awesome.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I just had a flash of insight. I don't know why I didn't think of it before. I think I'll set up my observation hive on a bathroom scale... then I can see them gain and lose and if I go weigh a few hives over a period of time and correlate those weights with the observation hive's weights I might be able to come up with a formula to estimate how fast my other hives are filling up...


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## amyrong (Mar 1, 2017)

It is my first time to see weighing hive with bathroom scale. I just use my bathroom scale in daily use.


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## Eyeman (Oct 23, 2016)

Screw a pair of Eye-screws into either side of the varroa monitoring frame, hook on you scales and lift. Takes 20 seconds.


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

Michael Bush said:


> I just had a flash of insight. I don't know why I didn't think of it before. I think I'll set up my observation hive on a bathroom scale... then I can see them gain and lose and if I go weigh a few hives over a period of time and correlate those weights with the observation hive's weights I might be able to come up with a formula to estimate how fast my other hives are filling up...


The electronics on bathroom scales are set up to automatically zero when they are turned on. You turn on, wait, then step on. I doubt you can get that to work. I have tried using the load-measuring feet from bathroom scales with my own electronics, and they're not stable enough. To use a stock bathroom scale, you'd need some way to lift the hive off when you turn it on.

You can probably get a mechanical bathroom scale to work. It may be tricky to read the dial, but I've seen a scheme that uses a mirror so you can see the dial (apparently I mentioned that in this thread two years ago).


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## MichiganMike (Mar 25, 2014)

This is how I weigh. Even if this method is not perfectly accurate it does show me the change.


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

That is exactly how I weigh my own boxes (and those of my students). Same equipment, same technique. 

So I was surprised when one of my students had their tractor out next to their hive when I arrived. They had the excellent idea of trying to hoist the entire hive in one go to weigh it. When we suspended their hive (strapped together) from the bucket of the tractor, using the same scale to get a dead weight, I found the dead weight was substantially higher than the added together lift-from-the end weights. 

I went home and enlisted my patient husband in weighing all my own hives using our tractor and found the same discrepancy. The dead weight was at least 20% higher -sometimes nearly 30% - than when weighing from the end and adding the numbers together. (Even when a dozen lift- weights from each end were taken and the numbers averaged.) While that's not a bad thing when checking to make sure your hive has enough stores for winter (better to underestimate than overestimate in that instance) it does cast some doubt on this method for monitoring the flows and stores consumption.

I think the mathematical difficulty with this method comes when the lift has even a very small not-totally-vertical component and when the lift is just a smidge more than simply enough to raise the the hive upwards. 

It was very frustrating to discover the likely inaccuracy of the two sets of year-long, weekly weights on every colony that I had recorded. (A huge amount of work, especially in the winter when the hives must be de-insulated each time they were weighed as they are ganged to together and wrapped as group.) But it is what it is, and I blame my own poor math skills for not realizing, and resolving, the physics problems this method entails. And I wanted to slap myself silly for not trying some dead weights early on to check on the reliability of the tilt-up method since I often lift and move my hives using the tractor's bucket so I had the capacity to do that all along.

Still, as a method to make sure your hives are "heavy enough" for winter this scale-and-hook method is adequate, but you have recognize that you probably aren't really getting actual weights. 

Since getting the dead weights entails strapping the hives together before the hoist, which is time consuming, and a second person to operate the tractor, I don't foresee weekly weights on every colony this season. In fact, I have taken none at all this winter. A few apple pies might enlist my husband for a round of weights on each colony as we come out of winter, though this bizarre week of very early- and heavy - foraging will mess up the total winter-consumption numbers.

I think the answer might be some kind of hoist framework you could trundle out and position over every hive and use for an overhead lifting point. You'd still have some extra effort to strap the hives together though - and that is not trivial.

Enj.


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

Yes, end weights will read lower if there is a significant tip involved. To use the number, the hive has to just barely be tipped.

My wife and I always weigh by lifting the entire hive by a strap. The downside is, it takes two people. Just one of us can lift, but putting the hive back down requires some help to get it in position, and the hive usually rotates if a second person is not present, making it hard for the person lifting to read. The main apiary has a high fence around it that supports a lifting lever, but we have a single hive in the garden that we test with a small A-frame and lever that I knocked together from three 2x4's and a long bolt. This kludge works but it absolutely requires two people to position the hive.

We leave the straps in place to hold the hives together. The garden hive has two setups, one going thru the cinderblock base, and the other just to lift the hive for weighing. The apiary hive stand has tie down bolts for the hives.

One of these days I'll finish the hive scale project, with a dedicated electronic scale under each hive, logged hourly. Because I'm insane.

Showing that a hive has adequate stores for winter can be done by inspecting the frames. Where I find actual weights useful is watching weight changes. In the midsummer dearth, are the hives gaining or losing weight? Do we need to feed? Last year they rather amazingly _gained_ weight, and we were able to skip feeding. The amount may only be a couple of pounds a week, so accuracy matters. Then again, in winter, I expect to see weight fall. Hives that don't lose weight are a Bad Sign.


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## Eyeman (Oct 23, 2016)

Thanks for the advice.
Hand held scales are so quick & simple.
Perhaps at that last inspection of the season when you know how much stores are in the hive a quick weighing will give you a baseline by which to judge an future weight gain or loss.


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## amyrong (Mar 1, 2017)

amyrong said:


> It is my first time to see weighing hive with bathroom scale. I just use my bathroom scale in daily use.


 Maybe i need go out to check such scale


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

I use a AWS PK-110 digital hanging scale.

http://www.awscales.com/hanging-scales/299-pk-110-hanging-scale

I set the scale to peak hold mode, hook the bottom edge of the bottom board, and slowly lift each side of a hive straight up and only about 1/8" of an inch. The scale automatically saves the peak weight for each side. I weigh both sides, add the two numbers together and then divide by two. The amount of error by this method is so small as to have no practical impact on the accuracy of the final number. 

Lifting the whole hive for a single measurement is a huge amount of unnecessary work.


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## Colobee (May 15, 2014)

It would be simple enough to use the pole fulcrum lever that WWW shows (minus the scale) with the pole set on a bathroom scale.


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