# Frame Assembly. What is the bevel on the side bar for?



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Two flat sides beside each other get glued together real well by the bees. The beveled edge, not so much. It makes removal of frames easier.


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## FindlayBee (Aug 2, 2009)

Should I alternate the directions the bevel faces or put them all to one side so that the bevel acts as an indicator for frame direction?

Ok, so I thought about it a bit more...

One end one way, the other end the other way.

Now, I will have a few that will confuse someone down the road a bit. Can't take them apart now, glued them together.


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## KevinR (Apr 30, 2010)

Those appear to be Kelley frames.

All of the bevels go the same way. So it should look like this..

>.>>.>
| |
| |
| |
| |
>.>>.>

The theory is that the bees don't have as much contact to glue the frames togeher, so you can seperate the easier.

I'm not sure I buy it.


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## G3farms (Jun 13, 2009)

I alternate the end bars, that way no matter which way you put them into the hive it is a bevel against a flat.


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## FindlayBee (Aug 2, 2009)

I see advantages to both ways. Looks like it comes down to personal preference.

I was looking at having them all face the same direction so that it would be easy to place the frame back in the same direction it was taken out. I also see the advantage of having it alternating so that a frame could be turned if needed and still not have two flats against each other.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

If the bevel is on one side on each end as you look down on it from above, you will either have bevel to bevel and flat to flat or bevel to flat. If the bevel is on one side on one end and the other side on the other end, you will always have bevel to flat and never flat to flat or bevel to bevel. Got it? Good.

I think I said that correctly.


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## NasalSponge (Jul 22, 2008)

Wait, what? :scratch:


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## FindlayBee (Aug 2, 2009)




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## indypartridge (Nov 18, 2004)

Nice picture, FindlayBee. 

I was taught to build frames so they look like your example on the left, and that's how I've always done it.


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## StevenG (Mar 27, 2009)

A picture is worth a thousand words, do it that way. Except, instead of two nails thru the top bar, put one nail thru the top bar on the side where the wedge is. On the side of the top bar that is solid (without the removable wedge) nail thru the end bar into the top bar. Minimizes the top bar pulling off the end bars as the frame ages. And of course use good wood glue.
Regards,
Steven


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

indypartridge said:


> Nice picture, FindlayBee.
> 
> I was taught to build frames so they look like your example on the left, and that's how I've always done it.


Same here...


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

I was just about to add the same comment as StevenG, concerning nail placement when assembling frames, but he beat me to it.

I would also add, that if you don't use wedge top bars, and use grooved, like I do, then put both nails through the end bars and into the top bar.


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## G3farms (Jun 13, 2009)

I build my like on the left, use glue and two nails on the top and one in the side.


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## FindlayBee (Aug 2, 2009)

I should have added that these are comb guide foundationless frames.

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions. Glad I didn't put very many together incorrectly.


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## blueskybeesupply (Dec 11, 2007)

Findlay's example on the left is the way they are intended to be assembled, so that they are reversible.

Personally, I do not like this style of frame. Logic tells you that they would not get propolized together as easily or that they would be easier to pry apart. However, in my experience, they get propolized together more heavily and the lesser amount of wood material on the beveled side weakens the endbar ear, causing them to seperate and break more often.


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## AramF (Sep 23, 2010)

Reviving this old post, but asking marginally different questions. 

1. On the end bar, is there any reason why the vertical break from 1 3/8 on the top to 1 1/8 on the bottom should always be an arc rather than a square break. My router can sometimes be tempremental, so I'd rather deal with my table saw. 

2. Is the propolizing of the frames so significant that a one size end bar would be too combersome to separate?


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## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

If you don't build them with the bevels all facing the same way your bees will leave and call you names, and tell all their friends what a silly beekeeper you are to worry about nothing.


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## NasalSponge (Jul 22, 2008)

Aram: It does not have to be arch and let me tell you you want the dip, I have some HSC that is the same size all the way down and it is no fun to get out.


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## AramF (Sep 23, 2010)

Thank you. That is useful to know.


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## pturley (Oct 4, 2010)

It looks like I am going to be modifying my frames tonight... ...the first thrity I bought do not have this bevel. Sounds like a VERY USEFUL feature to include.

Sincerely,
Paul E. Turley


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

It's really not that important, but the instructions that used to come with kelley frames (and common sense if you think about it) are that you put them opposite ways so if you flip the frame around they are still the same and you don't end up with a flat against a flat or a bevel against a bevel. The point is to make it easier to separate them.

The frames don't have to have a cut away at all and it doesn't matter if it's square or rounded at the end. In winter I think it might be helpful to have the end bars tapered but I have worked hives where they were not. The argument for not tapering them was that the frames would swing less when moving them.

The argument for the taper is that the bees in a winter cluster can get around the end better if they get caught in the cold and the cluster needs to contract or move.


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## berkshire bee (Jan 28, 2007)

blueskybeesupply said:


> Findlay's example on the left is the way they are intended to be assembled, so that they are reversible.
> 
> Personally, I do not like this style of frame. Logic tells you that they would not get propolized together as easily or that they would be easier to pry apart. However, in my experience, they get propolized together more heavily and the lesser amount of wood material on the beveled side weakens the endbar ear, causing them to seperate and break more often.


My thoughts exactly Bluesky. It's a hassle to deal with, and I've noticed the overall quality of frames seems to be going downhill. Just look at the first picture. It looks like the wood was cut in a shear. Modern methods and production speeds are goin up and quality of wood and workmanship seems to be going down.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

Putting together dadant deep frames for bait hives and tying comb into. No wedges (that picture was worth 1000 words) nails or glue or both? Nail placement? (link or pic would be great)

Gypsi


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Weird, seems like alot of bother to me


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## DC Bees (Sep 24, 2009)

I found an easy way to make the end bars with the vertical break.I use my jointer/plainer and put a stop block at the end with a clamp.You can do it with one pass if you go slow.


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