# Walk away splits



## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

Walk away splits are perfect way to expand. Just don't hope for any honey off of either of them. You can pull a few frames and make a nuc and still get some honey.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Ill make up splits in the spring. If your working your hives in doubles, sort 4 frames of brood and bees to the bottom, and the rest of the surplus brood to the top box. IF you dont have surplus brood and bees, then dont make a split from the hive. If you do, find the queen, place her in the bottom box and take away the top box as a split. Easy peasy


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## rkereid (Dec 20, 2009)

All kinds of ways to make splits and most will work fine. The things I would say is don't make your splits too small, and don't make them too late. If you give them enough brood and honey to start with, they will do much better. I do my smallest splits with 4 frames (2 to 3 brood and 1 honey), but larger ones will build faster. Around here (a bit east of you), our main flow is in spring. That's when your bees will build up the fastest. If you do it then, they have time to build up and store something before the nectar dries up after June. They will also be strong enough to defend themselves when other weak colonies are getting robbed out. As long as there are some drones available your virgin queens can get mated. Around here that is usually by mid to late March.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

There are pros and cons to this method.

The main pro is it's easy. Chop the hive into two, and walk away.

The main con is that it's an inefficient way to produce a new queen. You are alocating 1/2 the origional hives resources to producing an emergency raised queen. This process will take 4, 5, or even 6 weeks. assuming there are sufficient drones around you can expect a 75% chance the queen will mate successfully and start laying. The other 25% don't get a queen, but by the time you know that a lot of resources have been wasted, you can either give it another comb of eggs and try again, or combine it back with the other hive.

BTW the 75% is a broad average. Like they say in the infomercials, individual results may vary.


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## Grant (Jun 12, 2004)

There's a thousand ways to do these splits. Here's my take FWIW:

A full strength hive will make a better emergency cell than a split/queenless nuc. Sort your frames and put open brood and larvae above a queen excluder (with the queen and a couple of frames of brood below in the bottom box). Chances are real good the open brood will bring up the nurse bees, and even with an excluder, they will build some emergency queen cells. Queens emerge around/about ten to twelve days after you do this. You could break that upper box into two nucs, keep the lower box with the queen and the field bees. If all goes right, you'll get two, likely three hives per each colony counting the old one...and no honey. Feed those nucs!

Grant
Jackson, MO


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## Steven Ogborn (Jun 3, 2011)

With two and three season hives, swarm cells could be an easy way to get some good queens. Research cut-down splits.
Don't forget Mr. Bush's website/books. http://www.bushfarms.com/beessplits.htm


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

Another way to do it is figure out if queen is in top or bottom. Split and add queen to the queen-less box. Much better chance of success.


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## monrovi (Jan 22, 2012)

I did a even split last year with a double deep hive that I had. I was a nervous like you. I had never split a hive. I decided to do an even split like michal bush explains on his site. I worked for me I must have been in that 75% category of success. I put two new hives directly by the one I was going to split. Divided resources between new hives equally. I did this in the late afternoon. Took a while for them to calm down and chose a hive to be in. That night I removed old hive. I did this about a month before main flow when I started to see drones flying and weather decent for mating.


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## Tom B (May 11, 2011)

I did two walk-away splits this past spring, part of a plan to get rid of the deep hive bodies that I started with (now using all mediums). First, I reversed the brood boxes at the end of March, then, in early May, I just moved the top deep to a new bottom board and added an empty medium above both. Both of these splits were successful. It also has the secondary benefit of breaking the brood cycle in one of the hives so there is some passive mite control achieved.


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

I like walk-away splits because they're quick and easy to do. I think of them as walk-away and walk-back later splits because if they don't make their own queen, you're just wasting bees so you have to check on them. With my schedule, that means getting them a queen or combining them back. For me, walk-aways work best when the dandelions are blooming and the world is very supportive of bees. Lots of pollen, nectar flowing, etc. Anything less than ideal becomes a managed split (introduction of queen, sort of just making up a nuc) for me.


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## genie (Jun 25, 2011)

Thanks eastside buzz, that's what i was afraid of cause i really do want to get honey


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## genie (Jun 25, 2011)

thanks for the tip. i look for the queen on occasion but i have NEVER seen my queen in the past two years. and i don't really recognize the difference between brood frames and stored nectar. can you explain so a slow beek could understand?


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## genie (Jun 25, 2011)

TomB, did you leave the splits in the same bee yard or did you move them to another location? i want to leave mind in the same general area if possible. i don't like the idea of moving them to another location, too much trouble to take care of them it seems to me.


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## johnrupp5 (Jun 16, 2012)

try google The Nuts and Bolts of Splits & Nucs


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

genie said:


> i don't really recognize the difference between brood frames and stored nectar.


This image from the Beesource Glossary may help:









The Glossary is located here:
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?237911-Beekeeping-Glossary
Terms that are underlined have clickable photos.

Members that have suitable photos to contribute to the Glossary can email them to _Barry _at [email protected]


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## monrovi (Jan 22, 2012)

genie said:


> did you leave the splits in the same bee yard or did you move them to another location? i want to leave mind in the same general area if possible. i don't like the idea of moving them


You can leave them in the same yard. Check out MB website. Good easy to understand information on it. http://www.bushfarms.com/beessplits.htm


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

I rarely move them far. Sometimes just to the end of the row. If I move them many yards away, I often find myself moving them back. It's harder to move a colony than raise a split in the same yard.


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## chrisd4421 (Oct 11, 2010)

genie said:


> Thanks eastside buzz, that's what i was afraid of cause i really do want to get honey


If you hive is strong enough, have you considered a cut down split?
http://www.bushfarms.com/beessplits.htm

Chris in NJ


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

i tried the 'cut down split' as described on bushfarms.com on one of my hives last year with very good results.


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## jdmidwest (Jul 9, 2012)

Dandelions are the key? I will be watching my neighbors yard to time my walk away split.

My mentor has had good success with a walk away splits in the past. Until this year when one of his splits was robbed into oblivion after he pulled supers to extract honey.


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## Bubbles (Jul 14, 2012)

Has anyone tried the Snellgrove or double screen board to do a split? From what I have read, it seems to be a safer way of splitting. If the one queenless hive doesn't make a queen successfully, the two hives could be rejoined with minimal problems.


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

genie said:


> Thanks eastside buzz, that's what i was afraid of cause i really do want to get honey


If that is the case I would pull a couple frames of bee's with Brood add a queen in put in a 5 frame box with a frame to build out during a flow preferably and let them grow. This way you reduce the size of the double box but not to much that they cant build out the frames and give you honey. If you split the two boxes now they have a whole box to fill before they make you any honey. If you do it at the beginning of the season that nuc will also make it to two boxes by the end of the season.



chrisd4421 said:


> If you hive is strong enough, have you considered a cut down split?
> http://www.bushfarms.com/beessplits.htm


Cutdown is a good option also.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

Last spring was my first spring as a beek. I had 3 hives and wanted more. I had no drawn comb.
I did walk away splits on them all, each a few days to a week apart. Started as soon as I saw the first drones (maybe end of mar) 
All of the splits had queen cells in the hives, which were also split equally. 

First hive was a 50/50 one deep and one honey super.
Second 33/33/33 was a 2 deep.
Third was 33/33/33 was a deep and a half.

The flow was good the bees went crazy. By the end of spring this is what I ended with

First two, had/made queen, filled 2 deeps each and one 80% full honey super (left for the bees). 
Second splits had/made queen,3 hives each grow to 2 deeps.
Third splits 30 days later had no queens so I gave them all frames from the other successful splits, 30 days later 2 had queens and grew to one and half deeps. The third was given another frame which it again did not make a queen, it was later given a queen and a few bees from a small cutout. It was robbed right after I put the new queen in(it turned out she was ok). I stopped the robbing just so it could start the next day. I moved the hive one mile away and it has done well since.

Turned 3 hives into 8 that were all bigger than the starts. Plus they all donated several frames of brood for all the swarms I caught. All hives had to draw new comb. 

Next year I want production hives, as soon as I see drones I will take the queen and a few frames of brood and make a nuc. I will then leave the hives to make a new queen. This will give them a break in brood to help in honey production and mites. Also a strong hive with the flow just starting should raise good queens. Similar to mda splitter except I modified it to an earlier flow. IMO for my area there is not enough time to further split the main hive to increase the population then recombine it in time for the flow.


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## Whitetail (Feb 3, 2011)

I would use frames with swarm cells if you're doing walkaway splits. They were fed royal jelly from day one, and during periods of optimal nutrition. Emergency cells are not nearly as consistent. Doolittle figured that out in the 1800's. It works like this..... Bees pick several "appropriate" aged larvae and begin feeding them royal jelly. Typically the first one that hatches, destroys the competition. It seems to me that the first one to hatch was the oldest larvae that still developed into a queen, and therefore more likely to have been fed worker mix at some point, inhibiting complete development of the ovaries. Less developed ovaries=less eggs/lower populations. That's the science behind Doolittles observations of emergency queens being inferior. 
There are a lot of variables in beekeeping. I've had emergency queens before that were awesome...... But if you have options use swarm cells, or properly grafted cells.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

i don't think all emergency queens are inferior.

i have one made last spring that i will probably graft from this year.

likewise, not all queens made in a palmer style cell builder end up great.

a queen is not proven until she is proven.

(and by extension, a colony is not proven until it is proven, i.e. for desirable traits)

fair to say though, the likelihood of getting a great queen (and a better colony) is better when conditions are optimal for doing so.


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