# I did it! 1st time package installed!!!!



## Drmolarmagic (Nov 4, 2021)

It went pretty well, one got under my face net and I freaked and the poor thing gave its life in defense. Queen came very active and the cork/marshmallow swap went smoothly. I filled the hive too feeder with the pro sweet and spilled some into the center by accident and the overflow pushed the entrance reducer out and some of it started dripping out the front, I just pushed it back and the flow/drip stopped and I figure they’ll eat it up anyway. Closed it up and put the cage down in front to allow others to find their way in, now we just wait and watch my girls settle in. Long live the Queen!!


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## NUBE (May 24, 2009)

Congratulations! It can be a bit of an ordeal the first time. Sounds like you handled it pretty well, even with a bee in the veil. Hoping you have the best of luck with the colony.

Matt


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## charliez (Sep 30, 2021)

Thats cool. I'm waiting for the email saying to come get my first batch of two nuc's. I have my boxes setup and ready. Next time you go out there, have someone help lift one side then the other of your hive. Roll your bricks 90 degrees and then you can use a ratchet strap in a storm to make sure it doesn't blow over or open. Did yousave the box they came in? If so later you can use it to spit your and make another Nuc


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## Drmolarmagic (Nov 4, 2021)

Thx it’s very exciting!!


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## Drmolarmagic (Nov 4, 2021)

Got up before the alarm excites to go out and see what was going on and there are a bunch of dead bees on ground below entrance and a small ball of bees under bottom board. I assume they are still eating and collecting from the dripping pro sweet from last night. I pulled the Delivery cage out and it’s empty so they’ll all out somewhere. I hope that ball of bees goes inside when they are done with the-pro sweet and don’t start building a “new deck” from under there. Unfortunately I had to feed the other animals and leave for work…..


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## charliez (Sep 30, 2021)

Did you just pour liquid into the hive? Is that's what is wet below it? I use Wyze security cameras and I'm going to get on more for each hive so i can watch them all the time. Bees have a short life span so having dead bees is a constant thing. They just toss them out the door when it's their time to go. I forgot to paint one of my entrance reducers too


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## NUBE (May 24, 2009)

There will always be some dead bees in a package. They get dumped in with the rest when you do the install. I’d say they’re just trying to keep their house in order, which is a good sign.

The little ball of bees underneath is a little… curious? You could well be correct in assuming that they are cleaning up the spill from yesterday though. I’d keep an eye on that and if it doesn’t stop in the next day or so, you’ll have to poke around in there and see what they are up to. 

I do agree with charliez about flipping those cinder blocks. Even if you never have reason to strap the hive, those openings will collect a lot of debris in that orientation.
Matt


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## charliez (Sep 30, 2021)

As soon as my bees arrive, I'll do my own post of installing them. I'd like to get my brother to take pics or a video but I think he's going to be too afraid of them.

How is the roof line in relation to your hive location? Will they get drowned with water coming off the roof in a heavy rain? You'll be surprised how much water will come off your roof.


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

If that is pro-sweet they are cleaning I would pour some water on the ground and on the blocks to dilute it to reduce the chances of robbing if there are other honey bees in the area.
Congats on a successful install.

Alex


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## JustBees (Sep 7, 2021)

If the bees are not inside the box, they did not like the box or the queen.
However The syrup spill may be the issue, if a top feeder leaked bad enough it might drive them out.

Any syrup feeder MUST have small holes only in the bottom as oriented to feed.
The surface tension of the liquid will keep it from dripping much yet the bees will be able to access it.
Any holes in the top will allow air to enter and the can will drain unchecked into the hive.

Dry out the box and move the queen into the box, sounds like she may be on the bottom?
I wonder if you got two queens? one caged and one shook? Or maybe your queen is a virgin (if she is caged in the box).


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## Drmolarmagic (Nov 4, 2021)

Today's morning visit reveals the ball of bees is gone they are all inside, so it appears to be my sloppy ProSweet delivery was to blame. I stood there and watched this morning as one at a time they came out danced and left the hive for work today (visiting those flowers in the area) 
I agree I should've turned the cinderblocks the other way but now I'll have to leave them as is for fear of disturbing the young colony. Also I only have one suit/veil so no one in MY house is willing to help! Its supposed to rain today so that should help the ground and if not I'll wash it this weekend....thx for all the support and kind words this has been really exciting
And to those who celebrate Happy Passover and Happy Easter!
Bruce


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## Drmolarmagic (Nov 4, 2021)

JustBees said:


> If the bees are not inside the box, they did not like the box or the queen.
> However The syrup spill may be the issue, if a top feeder leaked bad enough it might drive them out.
> 
> Any syrup feeder MUST have small holes only in the bottom as oriented to feed.
> ...


 Thx they appear to be all inside now so I'm going to leave it until next Tuesday when I do my first open inspection


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## charliez (Sep 30, 2021)

I was just looking for this thread to see if you had any new information on how they were doing when the notification popped up. I had a feeling they would settle in and do just fine. Keep an eye on how the water runs off the roof and onto them, if it can. You should be able to easily lift just one side and roll the block, especially when they are young and not double deep with honey on top. I snapped a pic of my boxes, sitting all lonley, waiting for my email to come pickup the new families moving in You can see the one reducer wood that I forgot to paint. I'm going to try to get some cool pics on move in day.


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## Lee Bussy (May 28, 2021)

Congratulations! I hived my first two packages a couple of weeks ago. I think there are always "issues" but to use Roger Patterson's words, a beekeeper needs to exhibit "lateral thinking" and just adapt/adopt to the situation. I suspect an experienced beekeeper doe not avoid these things all the time, but rather just takes them in stride and does not even really take special note of them.

One thing I noticed is that I have queen cups already in one hive, but I do see eggs. I will do a more thorough check this weekend and make sure I have no cells. It _could_ be a supersedure attempt since there does seem to be a prevailing issue with packages and queen supersedure. It's also possible that low brood pheromone or QMP right after release could have caused them to do that and they will balance out. Something for you to think about and watch for.


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## Drmolarmagic (Nov 4, 2021)

charliez said:


> As soon as my bees arrive, I'll do my own post of installing them. I'd like to get my brother to take pics or a video but I think he's going to be too afraid of them.
> 
> How is the roof line in relation to your hive location? Will they get drowned with water coming off the roof in a heavy rain? You'll be surprised how much water will come off your roof.


I actually didn't look at that but I will today!!
thx


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## Fivej (Apr 4, 2016)

You are doing good, but do not be afraid to do what is needed. Plunge in now. If blocks need to be flipped, flip them. You will not disturb the hive. Decide now about the roof line/ water issue and move sooner rather than later. 
You should also sting yourself with someone present. Gather at least 3 bees in a zip loc bag, put in freezer for 5 minutes and they will be easy to handle. Place on preferred area till she stings, repeat two more times in different areas. Have Benedryl handy just in case. J


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## PFiji (Dec 25, 2016)

Also first timer whom installed one week ago. My bricks are installed like yours. Didn't even think about it until I read your thread. Could easily go change them, but my two hives are sitting reasonably level right now so I'll live with it. 

I think the one thing no one prepares you for is the amount of dead bees. When setting up, I accidentally had a bottom board upside down. After the bees were installed I caught it when I went to install the entrance reducer. No biggie, lift up, flip over bottom board. It was in that moment that I realized just how many dead bees there were. It didn't really sink in while shaking in the package.


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## Lee Bussy (May 28, 2021)

I read somewhere that you should expect ~30% die-off in the first weeks. If she lays a week after installation (allowing for release time and for her to get going) that means at day 25-29 (18-22 after laying) the hive start growing well.


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## JustBees (Sep 7, 2021)

Dead bees are a good reason to let the bees walk out of a package.
This will leave the dead in the package for easy removal.


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

Drmolarmagic said:


> Its supposed to rain today so that should help the ground and if not I'll wash it this weekend....thx for all the support and kind words this has been really exciting
> And to those who celebrate Happy Passover and Happy Easter!
> Bruce


If the spilled Pro-Sweet was going to cause robbing it would have started quickly. I would imagine the bees have cleaned it adequately by now. Weak package installs are vulnerable to robbing in areas where strong colonies are foraging. I have some used mineral buckets that hold water near my hives that are handy for washing away spills.
If you decide to feed during a dearth be extra careful to avoid spills and if you do have a spill clean them quickly. Robbing is easier to prevent than to stop. One should never assume because it didn't happen the first time it won't the next.
Happy Easter to you and yours, as well.

Alex


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## Drmolarmagic (Nov 4, 2021)

Best comedic line of the process,” dad how
Many bees came in the pack?”
“About 50-60 thousand I’m told”
“One just flew away did you get a head count before you started” 
( he was kidding…..)


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## BEE J (10 mo ago)

Congrats!!!  I was thinking about getting a package if nothing shows up in my swarm traps🐝. Do you have any preferences on the race, company, etc.? Glad things went okay and compliments again!

Cheers, BEEJ


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## Drmolarmagic (Nov 4, 2021)

I certainly am no expert but I bought my whole set up "starter kit" from MannLake. I drove to the PA location and spoke with the staff and looked around and liked the place and the advice I got so I went with them....


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## BEE J (10 mo ago)

Drmolarmagic said:


> I certainly am no expert but I bought my whole set up "starter kit" from MannLake. I drove to the PA location and spoke with the staff and looked around and liked the place and the advice I got so I went with them....


Good to know! I bought my frames and foundation from Mann Lake and they came safe and sound. Seems to be a good company to go with if I buy a package. I've never actually been to their store before, though.

Thanks Man, BEEJ


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## JustBees (Sep 7, 2021)

If you don't catch a swarm, I would recommend buying local bees rather than mail ordering bees.
If a local Beek join your local Bee Association, they have group buys on bees and can supply localized support.


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## BEE J (10 mo ago)

JustBees said:


> If you don't catch a swarm, I would recommend buying local bees rather than mail ordering bees.
> If a local Beek join your local Bee Association, they have group buys on bees and can supply localized support.


That may be the perfect solution. The bees wouldn't have to travel from out of state and I would be supporting the local economy (and it's a pretty small one here). I am just a little nervous, though. What would be the latest time a package can be installed?


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## Lee Bussy (May 28, 2021)

A package that you buy locally is not necessarily not from out of state. Nearly all the packages I know of come from one of the larger production areas in the south.


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## charliez (Sep 30, 2021)

One thing I might do...might...is add thin plastic bottom on top of the bottom board for easy slip it out and clean it. We'll see


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## BEE J (10 mo ago)

Lee Bussy said:


> A package that you buy locally is not necessarily not from out of state. Nearly all the packages I know of come from one of the larger production areas in the south.


Really? Do you mean packages from local Bee associations? I thought they would be coming from the members apiaries. If not, at least I'm in the south  .


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## Lee Bussy (May 28, 2021)

Packages (meaning a box of bees) are generally (all that I know of) from large commercial apiaries in CA, FL, GA and I am sure a few others. They are trucked wholesale to "local" sellers who then retail them. Nucs, meaning a nucleus hive on (generally) five frames can be created locally for sure. Packages can be shipped, Nucs generally are not.


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## BEE J (10 mo ago)

Thanks! Maybe I'll consider a Nuc.


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## Lee Bussy (May 28, 2021)

Seeing a package firsthand this year leads me to believe the theory that a package in April or a Nuc in May are just about the same. It takes that package some time to get going.

A package seems to be a good idea if you want to treat a broodless colony or to avoid potentially bringing in someone else’s contaminants or just nasty comb. If you don’t have drawn comb to use to get them going (see, I listen @Gray Goose!) then a nuc is likely the better path for you - even if it means you have to wait an extra month.

This year I am starting four hives: Two were started with packages and two are coming in about a week and a half and will be nucs.


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## charliez (Sep 30, 2021)

I'm picking up my bees Friday, so I'll be doing a thread just like yours soon.


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## Drmolarmagic (Nov 4, 2021)

TODAY WAS THE 1 WEEK FIRST INSPECTION!!! So it’s been a it cold and rainy here and I haven’t had very much activity around front door of hive so I was actually starting to worry that they all left. But I suited up and smoked up and went ahead and do my first inspection. First thing, the hive top feeder still has about 3 gallons of prosweet and it was heavy, but I didn’t spill any this time. One pollen patty was half gone the other just started. So I know they are well fed. The queen cage had some comb built on it and the marshmallow was gone so the queen is released!! ( long live the queen!!) I checked the frames and I think I saw the queen and there is
Comb being built nicely but I didn’t see any eggs and only a few capped spots but there were also a lot of bees and I didn’t shake them off to really closely inspect under them ( I was a bit nervous)
So everything appears to be going smoothly I’ll check in another week or 2 and really get close to see if there are eggs and capped areas and continue my thread here. I took a video of this inspection but it’s 10 min and needs to be cut down to post, maybe later 
Thx for your support and advice everyone!!


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## Drmolarmagic (Nov 4, 2021)

charliez said:


> I'm picking up my bees Friday, so I'll be doing a thread just like yours soon.


I’m looking forward to your thread to see how
Everyone else is doing with the first time, it’s like group therapy


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## charliez (Sep 30, 2021)

This is my goofy self showing my grandson and granddaughter the bee boxes. I'm hoping to get him interested in learning about bees. She's a bit small for the right now.


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## NUBE (May 24, 2009)

Eggs can be difficult for first time beekeepers to spot. I find it a little easier on fresh comb, as you can usually see them backlit through the comb as well as the conventional way of having the sun over your shoulder shining down into the bottom of the cells. I think the eggs are much smaller than most people expect. It’ll look like the tiniest grain of rice you’ve ever seen sticking straight up from the center of the cell bottom. You should definitely see larva next inspection. If it’s warm enough next time you inspect I’d definitely recommend taking your time and really trying to identify eggs. Once you really see one it becomes much easier to spot them, and it’s a very important thing for a beekeeper to know how to spot. Any frame towards the center of the box that looks empty in the middle at first glance should have eggs in it. If you find any capped brood you can also typically start working your way out from where that is centrally located in the frame and you begin seeing open brood near to capping, just hatched tiny open brood and, possibly, on the very outer edges, eggs. Sounds like you’re really enjoying the experience. Congratulations again.


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## charliez (Sep 30, 2021)

And...if the eggs arent down in the bottom, and stuck to the sides or of there is more than one per cell, you may have a laying worker. All this is fun stuff to learn about. They have a complete society and world going on inside the boxes.


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## Lee Bussy (May 28, 2021)

Nothing to worry about now - but for future consideration:

Don't use smoke on a new package. The very last thing you want is the bees leaving because of the living conditions. Once they are anchored by brood, there's less of an issue.
You can feed a gallon at a time, filling up those feeders will lead to waste due to spillage and spoilage. A gallon should last a package a week easily.
Especially starting with new blank foundation, if you feed them too fast they will fill every square inch with syrup and the queen will not have as many places to lay. Keeping it to a reasonable amount helps that.
I didn't see where you shared what foundation you used. Black makes it a TON easier to see eggs in my opinion, using the sun over the shoulder method. Until you get used to finding them, white, yellow, and foundationless is tougher IMHO.
Last year our bees went through a marshmallow in < 24 hours (with the expected result.) Unless you are using queen candy it would be better to leave her there in the corked cage for 2-4 days and do a manual release.
If you saw capped brood already, chances are things are fine. Check for queen cells though because they may simply be nice enough to her to get her to lay eggs and then supersede.
Last year was in a teaching apiary and this year is my first year on my own. I am not an expert but those are some things I learned with limited experience and from my mentors.


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## NUBE (May 24, 2009)

I agree with Lee about not using much, if any, smoke on a newer package colony, but do make certain you have your smoker lit and at the ready. They are extremely handy for masking alarm pheromone if you happen to get stung.


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## BEE J (10 mo ago)

charliez said:


> This is my goofy self showing my grandson and granddaughter the bee boxes. I'm hoping to get him interested in learning about bees. She's a bit small for the right now.
> 
> View attachment 68686


Yes! Get the next generation learning to produce food and care for creation. Big thumbs up!


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## charliez (Sep 30, 2021)

What does your water source look like? I setup one yesterday for mine. It's from the Lowes pond liner section item 93171. It fits just right in a plastic barrel cut in half and using the mid section, not he top. I added some concrete chunks for them to walk on but will probably switch to some better looking stones. I'll be drilling a hole in the side t set a max fill level so it won't go to the top and drown them in the rain. It's off tot he left of my hives. I think it's going to work pretty good once it's finished. My hives are facing a half acre of thick always seem to be blooming honey suckle. I've been trying to groom them a really nice place to call home for awhile now.


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## charliez (Sep 30, 2021)

The water bucket is near my garden and I like to go out every day to water and keep a daily eye o things so I can easily keep it filled for them.


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## BEE J (10 mo ago)

charliez said:


> What does your water source look like? I setup one yesterday for mine. It's from the Lowes pond liner section item 93171. It fits just right in a plastic barrel cut in half and using the mid section, not he top. I added some concrete chunks for them to walk on but will probably switch to some better looking stones. I'll be drilling a hole in the side t set a max fill level so it won't go to the top and drown them in the rain. It's off tot he left of my hives. I think it's going to work pretty good once it's finished. My hives are facing a half acre of thick always seem to be blooming honey suckle. I've been trying to groom them a really nice place to call home for awhile now.
> 
> View attachment 68726
> 
> ...


Beautiful property by the way! What bee wouldn't want to live there 😁. Your water bucket looks good. We used to use an kiddy pool with some rocks and a towel in it. On the property I'm on their is a creek (down the road) and a hand-dug pond on the property, so I think the bees will find water.
LOOKS GREAT! Keep it up!


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## Drmolarmagic (Nov 4, 2021)

2.5 week inspection done! and WE HAVE CAPPED BROOD, I was shocked that the frames look just like the photo in the book!!! All but a drop of the pollen patty is gone, and about half the Prosweet is eaten from the hive top feeder. Again I think I found the queen, still unsure of that but from everything else I'm sure she's there somewhere laying away...I calculate that by next week end I'll consider putting on second level Deep with frames. No Supercede or Swarm cells noted but I read that not usually an issue in first season. Just got a Bee Oasis bee water station that sits on top of hive and its functional and decorative. I'll post more as the days go by, Thx


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## charliez (Sep 30, 2021)

Good deal. I had to go back into one of my hives Saturday (long story) and I still haven't seen my queens, but I saw tons of larvae so that means I have a good queen that is laying. At my 6 day point in time of having bees, I've already done a swarm removal. I did a little thread about it but in the wrong place. I may get admins to move it and add to it as they have got away and I captured them for the 4th time Saturday. hey are making me learn how to do things I never thought I would be doing this soon.


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## Drmolarmagic (Nov 4, 2021)

A swarm removal, wow that's amazing so soon, what happened? A new hive swarmed? please share the story...


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## charliez (Sep 30, 2021)

I got a call Thursday forma lady I know that works at the Coop Water Company. I started a thread about it here but a lot has changed and I think I started it in the wrong place.









My first removal


So...I've had bees for 6 days now. I get a text from a lady in the water company saying she heard I did bees and they have a lady with a meter full of bees and she's afraid to go home and they don't have any employees that want to go out there and deal with them, so I thought about it not very...




www.beesource.com





The evening I brought them home, I opened them. I clearly didn't know what I was doing other than they were going to get sprayed the next morning if I didn't get them and see what I can do and boy are they teaching me. Friday afternoon they were all out and on a bush. I got them back in and they seemed to be ok for about 20 minutes. Then they poured out like an unstoppable lava flow. I tried putting them back in again and they just didn't want to go. As I decided what I was doing wasn't going to work, I saw the queen land on the edge of the box. My first though was that must be a drone because it's so much bigger then the rest. Yep, I was a dummy. As soon as she flew away I realized what she was. I have not seen my queens yet and this is actually the first queen I have ever seen in person. They kept going back to the same branch. It was easy to trim other branches away and shake the pile so these two catching sessions were not some outrageous acrobatic act. It was almost like they would so no, try again, and go back to square 1. I left them overnight on the branch with the nuc box butted right up to them and in the morning they were in the same place waiting. I read some stuff about catching and keeping a swarm. I had nothing in the box they were interested in. I have no old used frames to offer them. After some thinking about it, I messages the folks i got my bees from. They didn't get back to me till later. In the meantime, I looked at bee vacs with the idea of vac'ing them when it cooled of later of they were still there, with hopes I get the queen that way. I spent some tie on another project int he shop, and just thought about things. As I'm finishing up that project, I was about to shop vac the floor and a light came on. What if I use my smallest shop vac somehow. So gears turning, I made a 5 frame size nuc style box, with a round bung on the back and front. I used my wood lathe to turn the bungs for a perfect fit for the shop vac hose in back, and a pool vac hose in front. I stuffed the shop vac hose with spare air filer material for my hanging air filter. Then I needed a way to keep them in, so I tuned a plug for the front bung and made a sliding door that slips under the bung on the back. This also lets me regulate the vacuum strength very easily. 

Then my bee supplier friends call and we talked about it. He advised me, because he knew what he sent me home with, to get a frame with the least honey and brood out of one of my boxes, then add a couple of new (waxed only) frames and shake them in again, and not vac them. I will probably get more meter removal calls so the vac is still something I will use. The water company lady said they have them all the time in meters.


As I was getting everything ready for attempt #4, I see the queen again, walking on the outside of the ball of bees, then bury herself down into the middle. So I decide to make my move. I took one frame out, so now they will have just three, and it made space for the stick. I got my brother to clip the stick and I held onto it and gently set then entire thing in the box. It's a pro nuc so I had both ends closed and metal foil taped so it won't open and they can't chew it open. I also made a plywood top so I could give them a sugar water feeding. This time without the shaking, there was no storm cloud of bees going airborne. I just quickly set the top on and made that a successful catch #4. There were a few foragers coming back that were left behind but not many.

I am keeping them inside on the kitchen table. I'll hold them until Wednesday evening. But before I open them, I'm going to take my plastic queen excluder, that I don't need right now, and cut a custom cover to place over the opening, so when I do open them, she can't get out.

I put a tape mark on the feeder, and overnight they really took a lot and I didn't want them to overfill what comb is available to the queen, so she has room to work. I also put white paper on the table on each side of the box with the vents. They are working hard to clean the box and they are pushing all sorts of debris out the vent holes. They also go crazy when i give them a drop of sugar water on the vents. This has been quite the learning experience. Who catches a swarm 6 days into having bees, and who catches the same swarm 4 times. This crazy ******* I guess.


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## Drmolarmagic (Nov 4, 2021)

Ok that's an AMAZING story and I must admit I am impressed as if I got a call to catch a swarm I couldn't bring myself to even try.......Bravo on saving the bees. I hope the catch takes this time and they stay with you. Again great adventure


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## charliez (Sep 30, 2021)

Thanks. Part of this adventure into bees may become supplementing my retirement. Not retiring yet, work is going well and my account is just building and building. So when that will be ??? Bees might be along with some woodworking stuff. Rabbit trail===>I make chopping blocks (and other things). My chopping blocks are getting to be known. I have two ways I do them. One is several hundred blocks, 600-800. All cut various sizes with the grain and type of woods being arranged int patterns. Right now, some I give away and some get sold. The ones being sold now are going through local fund raiser auctions. They'll go for several K. It's pretty cool to see one pass 3K. At work once a month I'll make something and let everyone toss their names in a box and we draw for one. last month I let everyone put names in as many times as they wanted and I added a bonus to who did the most names. The winner did over 500. I'll do something for a door prize for each of our local bee club meetings. 

Back to the subject. Today I'll be re releasing them. I will be keeping them in their pro nuc box but as a little insurance, I'm going to cut a queen excluder section to fit over the opening so she can't get any more wild ideas. I'll give then two weeks out to behave and hopefully they take, and I'll move them to a 10 frame box. I gave them another drink of sugar water yesterday and they were guzzling so fast that they were making air bubbles rise up. So I know that are ready to be out flying free and foraging again. Another cool thing is all the debris they are pushing out the little grills over the openings. I'm hoping that means they have accepted the pro nuc as their home and are dog some housework duties.

The last one is no two squares the same size or shape. I do another version of it where its all curves and again no two pieces are the same.


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## Lee Bussy (May 28, 2021)

I always like watching those YouTube vids of people making cutting boards and whatnot with so many different pieces. Just when I think they are done .. nope. Cut it up one more time!


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## charliez (Sep 30, 2021)

I put the Wild Bunch back out yesterday. I cut down an excluder and put it over the opening so little miss thang can't go anywhere. Boy were they glad to be out of there. Looked like the front doors flying open at a Walmart Black Friday sale. They were bumping me good but nobody tried to staple me. I put them on some blocks so I could strap them down. We were supposed to have storms last night but didn't. It took them a bit but they started settling down. Some of them flew around the bush where they kept congregating on last week but eventually gave up on it. After awhile I was able to water the garden ok and just before dark I added a little landing board under them along with the ratchet strap. I did that in shorts and flip flops and they didn't seem to mind. I hope they are going to be settled in all the way. I will need to open them up and give them more frames and take the stick out that they rode in on. I'll probably do that on Sunday afternoon. I was impressed with all the debris they were tossing out the vents while they were contained. I guess they were house cleaning. Maybe that means they were accepting the Nuc box as their home. I'll start preparing a full size box for them soon. I dont' want them to get the swarm urge again.


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## charliez (Sep 30, 2021)

The wild bunch got opened up yesterday. I needed to remove the stick they all rode in one, na dput all the frames in. They got a bit rowlwed up about it. They had built some wild comb on the bottom of the lid, and i expected that. They didn't like me taking it away or reaching in and getting thier stick. I was about to hand my broth the bowl of comb I collected and he was gone. One of them got him on the arm so he took off. later in the eveing, I looked in on them and one of them reminded me that they were mad by my first pop so far. right on the side of the neck. It hurt but went away. I suspect they will be settled down by this afternoon, if they are still in there. I'll see when I get home this afternoon.


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## Drmolarmagic (Nov 4, 2021)

So the latest development is this little bum…..he has decided my hive is a buffet and comes and picks bees off in mid air. I’ve been told this is normal, all part of the vast food chain web so I’ll just deal with it. I’m told there are plenty more bees than will get eaten by birds over the season…. I hope that’s true!


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## Lee Bussy (May 28, 2021)

If he can eat 40k bees, you have an issue.


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## Drmolarmagic (Nov 4, 2021)

Lee Bussy said:


> If he can eat 40k bees, you have an issue.


I counted today we’re good…….


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## Drmolarmagic (Nov 4, 2021)

Today I changed the entrance reducer to the larger hole, wow what a difference in activity near the entrance! I wonder if they add more century bees for the bigger opening. Also inspected and they’ve started drawing comb on the frames in the upper deep, and plenty of capped brood and drone brood and capped honey along the edges in the lower deep. Look like we are moving along according to plan.


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## Drmolarmagic (Nov 4, 2021)

I was walking my dog today a block away from my yard where the Hive is and I spotted a honey bee gathering nectar from a rose bush and I couldn't help wondering if she was from MY hive, boy I wish I could know.......


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

Drmolarmagic said:


> I was walking my dog today a block away from my yard where the Hive is and I spotted a honey bee gathering nectar from a rose bush and I couldn't help wondering if she was from MY hive, boy I wish I could know.......


Mark each bee with a tiny marker...


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## Lee Bussy (May 28, 2021)

That's low-tech. RFID those babies.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

Drmolarmagic said:


> I was walking my dog today a block away from my yard where the Hive is and I spotted a honey bee gathering nectar from a rose bush and I couldn't help wondering if she was from MY hive, boy I wish I could know.......


You could try dusting bees with flour, for a short-term project to see where your bees are foraging.


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## Drmolarmagic (Nov 4, 2021)

Good morning Hive...... 
Question, how long is the turnover from capped brood to hatching to cleaning to re laying and recapping?? I'm asking because my capped brood has hatched and the hive is growing nicely and the ladies are working around the now empty cells, I know they are working to clean them out and ready for next laying pass but I was wondering how long that takes. It was recommended to me to inspect the hive every 2 weeks or so because this is my first year and not as often in the future, so I was just wondering when I should see new eggs and well.....if no eggs there then I may have queen issues, BUT probably not as there is plenty of NEW capped brood on outer frames and they just started building comb on the new upper deep I put on about 2 weeks ago. 
SO when does a queen make her way back to the early center frames to re lay ?


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## NUBE (May 24, 2009)

It can vary pretty widely. It really depends on the time of year, the abundance of resources available, and how much room there is in the hive. In my 3 deep 8 frame hive the queen laid one round in the bottom box and almost immediately laid another round as those workers hatched. At the end of week 4, I placed a 2nd deep on and she moved up into that. A few weeks later, a 3rd deep went on. Now, almost 10 weeks since I stall, there have been empty cells in the bottom box waiting for her for several weeks.

Idk who advised you to only open them up every 2 weeks (they may well know way more than I and be exactly right) but I would typically encourage hobbyists, especially those new to the craft, to inspect weekly. You’ll learn a lot more in your first few years that way, and have a better chance of staying ahead of problems.


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## Lee Bussy (May 28, 2021)

Does anyone remember that (now ancient) computer simulation called "Life?" The rules, via Wiki, were:



Wikipedia said:


> The universe of the Game of Life is an infinite, two-dimensional orthogonal grid of square _cells_, each of which is in one of two possible states, _live_ or _dead_ (or _populated_ and _unpopulated_, respectively). Every cell interacts with its eight neighbours, which are the cells that are horizontally, vertically, or diagonally adjacent. At each step in time, the following transitions occur:
> 
> Any live cell with fewer than two live neighbours dies, as if by underpopulation.
> Any live cell with two or three live neighbours lives on to the next generation.
> ...


In my mind, it's like that. Does the queen go clockwise or counter-clockwise? Which way does she turn when she encounters a filled cell? So many ways it could go, it's really amazing that the patterns are often so well-defined.


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## Drmolarmagic (Nov 4, 2021)

Lee Bussy said:


> Does anyone remember that (now ancient) computer simulation called "Life?" The rules, via Wiki, were:
> 
> 
> 
> In my mind, it's like that. Does the queen go clockwise or counter-clockwise? Which way does she turn when she encounters a filled cell? So many ways it could go, it's really amazing that the patterns are often so well-defined.


Deep man.... very deep......


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## Drmolarmagic (Nov 4, 2021)

so it was VERY hot and humid here in Queens NY today and just like the book says, the ladies are hanging in the front porch to cool off.


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## Lee Bussy (May 28, 2021)

OKay, I'll ask it ... are those ... pizzas?!


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## Drmolarmagic (Nov 4, 2021)

Oh yes! I put those there a month ago and posted a photo to prove to the world that I have Italian bees,!! (great visual joke, and I just left them there)


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## Lee Bussy (May 28, 2021)

As an Italian originally from NY, I am embarrassed that I missed that irony.


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

Lee Bussy said:


> If he can eat 40k bees, you have an issue.


If he can eat 40K bees you better leave him alone! 

Alex


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## Drmolarmagic (Nov 4, 2021)

And now the latest!! Today I took off the hive top feeder and switched to the inside cover and took off the entire entrance reducer. The top deep inspection revealed LOTS of new brood and LOTS of honey around the outside so I don’t have to refill and use the feeder. Also the ladies have been hanging outside a lot in the heat and I know the inner cover with the vent allows better ventilation and cooling. Since I saw lots of new brood in the top deep I didn’t bother inspecting the lower deep this time. I think I’ll just leave it for now and let them do their jobs. Also my smoker died in the middle of the inspection so I thought it was a good idea to just close it up for the day. No Queen cells noted so I guess that’s not a worry at this time. So like I said before it appears to be going well and like the book said it would!!!


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## Drmolarmagic (Nov 4, 2021)

Update: the Queen excluder has been placed and the 1st honey super added. Now I have to control myself and not open the hive for a few weeks and let the girls start with comb up there and hopefully HONEY!!! If things go well ill
Inspect on July 4th weekend and add second honey super in mid to end of august or sooner I hope. Please keep following my first year updates, I’m having a great time!


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## A Novice (Sep 15, 2019)

Isn't it exciting.
Keep learning everything you can.
Don't worry about swarming this year. Next year.


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## Drmolarmagic (Nov 4, 2021)

Update....I checked on the 1st honey super and they have drawn comb on 80% and the center frames are already filled with young honey!!! (this is amazing) so I added the second honey super and I guess at this rate I'll be able to harvest my first honey in late July early August. I guess I'll check in 3-4 weeks and taste the honey in the frame to see if its ready to harvest or if it needs more time for the ladies to dry and mature it. 
More when I open and check ......WOW


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## NUBE (May 24, 2009)

Congratulations, I’m glad that first colony is doing so well for you.


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## Drmolarmagic (Nov 4, 2021)

Another scorcher here in Queens NY and everyone is hanging out on the outside of the hive and buzzing away to cool it off……stay cool ladies!


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## Drmolarmagic (Nov 4, 2021)

So I did some more research and learned the best way to support the colony when they are bearding a lot is to add additional water sources for the ladies to make sure they have plenty of water to help cool the hive. So I moved the bee oasis closer to entrance and put a much bigger water can with pebbles. The pebbles allow the bees to land and drink without drowning


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## Drmolarmagic (Nov 4, 2021)

Update: I inspected this past weekend and in both honey supers there are only the outermost frames not covered in comb with honey on the outer most sides, So I took a honey sample and then after I closed up, I tasted and OMG its yummy! But then I used my Refractometer and found the water content is still too high, so I plan to wait until mid August and sample and test again. If its in the proper moisture range I'm going to go for it and schedule a day for HONEY HARVEST, the whole family is very excited about this prospect. 
BUT After I remove the supers to harvest the honey, what do I put back?? and do I take away the queen excluder ?


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## NUBE (May 24, 2009)

If you’re extracting, you can place the empties on the hive and they’ll clean them up for you. If you’re doing crush and strain, I’d leave the supers off. Boxes with a bunch of empty frames should not stay on the hive over winter. And, yes, definitely pull the excluder after pulling the supers.

congrats on your bees doing so well this first year. I hope that honey thickens up soon for you.


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## Drmolarmagic (Nov 4, 2021)

Well friends I did it…. My first honey harvest!!!! I had 2 medium honey supers filled with capped honey except for outside wall facing frames and refractometer told me we were at 15-17% water so I decided to go for it. I took off the lower honey super with the most mature capped honey and took 7 of the 10 frames out to harvest. I then moved the upper super to next to the Queen excluder. I used the shake and bee brush technique and put the frames in an empty honey super to carry into the kitchen. I set it all up and uncapped, spun and strained and we got quite a haul for my first time out. I’m going to leave the other super on for now and I put the spun out frames back in the top super. I’m going to bottle what I have so far and see how much it really is and go from there. Thank you to all of my newbee friends who followed this thread and gave me lots of great advice. I look forward to the rest of the season and into the winter!


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## Drmolarmagic (Nov 4, 2021)

And we are done! This is all the honey from todays harvest. I bought decorative jars and never thought I’d fill them first time out but I blew past them and was using mason jars I had from canning last winter. I’m super excited from all this!!!!


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## NUBE (May 24, 2009)

Nicely done! 

I don’t want to burst your bubble or anything, just a heads up for future honey straining and bottling, Idk that those 5 gallon buckets are food safe. I wouldn’t worry about it personally, I’d eat that honey all day long, but if you ever plan on selling any, get buckets that are marketed as food safe. Anyone you give your honey away to would probably appreciate that as well. If you checked beforehand and it is food safe, I apologize for bringing it up. If it isn’t then, like I said, I’d eat it and not really worry about it. Just be careful who you give it to and I wouldn’t recommend selling it.


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## William Bagwell (Sep 4, 2019)

NUBE said:


> Idk that those 5 gallon buckets are food safe.


Nice catch. Home Depot does sell food safe buckets. White, and usually in the paint department for some strange reason? Seriously doubt the orange ones with their logo on the side are.


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## Drmolarmagic (Nov 4, 2021)

NUBE said:


> Nicely done!
> 
> I don’t want to burst your bubble or anything, just a heads up for future honey straining and bottling, Idk that those 5 gallon buckets are food safe. I wouldn’t worry about it personally, I’d eat that honey all day long, but if you ever plan on selling any, get buckets that are marketed as food safe. Anyone you give your honey away to would probably appreciate that as well. If you checked beforehand and it is food safe, I apologize for bringing it up. If it isn’t then, like I said, I’d eat it and not really worry about it. Just be careful who you give it to and I wouldn’t recommend selling it.


I hear you, but the main concern about food and plastics is exposure, if you store food over time in those the plastic is not safe but a quick contact and exposure of food which for me took a total of about an hour is not a concern, in this case. Kind of like not drinking bottled water that's been in the sun as the plastic bottles can be an issue. But I agree with your caution and I will look to get the food safe buckets for the next round of harvest
Thx!


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## Drmolarmagic (Nov 4, 2021)

NUBE said:


> Nicely done!
> 
> I don’t want to burst your bubble or anything, just a heads up for future honey straining and bottling, Idk that those 5 gallon buckets are food safe. I wouldn’t worry about it personally, I’d eat that honey all day long, but if you ever plan on selling any, get buckets that are marketed as food safe. Anyone you give your honey away to would probably appreciate that as well. If you checked beforehand and it is food safe, I apologize for bringing it up. If it isn’t then, like I said, I’d eat it and not really worry about it. Just be careful who you give it to and I wouldn’t recommend selling it.


OK TOOK YOUR ADVICE ….FIXED IT!!! Thanks for the guidance


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## Drmolarmagic (Nov 4, 2021)

So today I harvested the second honey super and got a very nice yield ( using white food safe buckets….thx NUBE!!) 
Then removed the Queen excluder and left the frames in front of the hive for the girls to start cleaning. In the meantime I worked for over an hour scraping off propolis to make stuff. I think I’m going to start with sore throat spray receipt I found. I put the unharvested partially capped frames back into one of the supers and put it on top of the 2 deeps then inner cover ( more Propolis scraped off) and outer cover. 
I had inspected the lower deeps and there is still capped brood and plenty of little bee buts in the air while they work to clean cells. Lots of capped honey around the edges also. Still didn’t see the queen ( next time I buy a marked queen!) but I’m told at this time of year egg laying slows down. I ordered a Varrona treatment and that goes in next weekend. Now I will treat the hive and any further honey production is for the hive to over winter. Once again thanks to this community for all the advice.


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## NUBE (May 24, 2009)

Looking good doc. Sounds like you should be in pretty good shape heading into winter. Quite the success for the first year. Appears you’re in a really good location for honey production if you’re getting that much off a first year package. Congratulations.


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## Drmolarmagic (Nov 4, 2021)

here are the last 3 frames with the ladies cleaning them for me. Amazing process.


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## jtgoral (Mar 24, 2018)

How is your mite treatment going? Or you want to spend money for new packages next year again. Just a reminder.


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## Drmolarmagic (Nov 4, 2021)

The first mite treatment starts this Friday as that’s when the Apivar is scheduled to arrive….


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## Drmolarmagic (Nov 4, 2021)

Update: Mite Treatment strips went in Saturday Morning as planned and everything is fine. I'll be entering my honey in the Queens County Fair this year...looking for that Blue Ribbon!
I spent about a hour yesterday sitting in front of the hive watching the bees fight off about 6 Yellow Jackets and also do some hive cleaning, (carrying the dead bodies out of the hive) and It's really cool to watch. They are fierce protectors and intense workers.


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## NUBE (May 24, 2009)

They will certainly take care of yellow jackets. I’ve even seen a pretty weak colony ball them up if they can’t take the hint. Good luck with the honey competition and I hope that mite treatment works well for you.


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## Drmolarmagic (Nov 4, 2021)

SECOND PLACE RIBBON! Queens County Fair! This was great…….I’m going to hang the ribbon on the hive so the ladies can see what they’ve won!!!


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## Drmolarmagic (Nov 4, 2021)

Went to remove Apivar strips and noticed something strange. It got a bit cold here last week and the activity Around the hive stopped so I thought it was just due to the cold. In the last day or so there was a flurry of activity, and they don’t look like my bees. They look bigger. I opened the hive to remove the medication strips and found no bees on lower boxes and no capped brood and there clumps of larger bees in the top mediums super where the honey is. I’m guessing my colony is gone or dead and this is all robbing. 
I closed it all back up and now I’m sending these photos out for advice.


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## Drmolarmagic (Nov 4, 2021)

It’s dark out here and no activity near the hive, I opened the top cover and there ain’t a bee in site. 
so this week I clean out and get rid of all the frames and I’ll replace them in the spring when I order new bees. Onto year 2 and we’ll do it all again!


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## PFiji (Dec 25, 2016)

Walk me through the decision to get rid of all the frames? As I enter winter with underdog hives, my thought process is that this year is not a complete waste from an equipment side if they don't make it. I will still have frames with drawn comb that can be used to get things going a little faster next year. 

Sorry you lost your bees. Hopefully you figure out why. Strange that you were treating when it happened. From reading on here plus talking to a couple friends that have bees, it's almost always mites that causes this. But in your case, you had the Apivar on.


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## Drmolarmagic (Nov 4, 2021)

My concern is that the Apivar didn’t work or there is some other disease that I don’t want to carry into a new colony. I’ll keep the boxes but I’m really concerned that they were there one day and gone the next and that comb doesn’t look too healthy. I’ve invested so much already so replacing the frames is no big deal. I put out the photos to get some input on what I’m looking at.


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## TelmahQ (Jun 3, 2021)

Drmolarmagic said:


> My concern is that the Apivar didn’t work or there is some other disease that I don’t want to carry into a new colony. I’ll keep the boxes but I’m really concerned that they were there one day and gone the next and that comb doesn’t look too healthy. I’ve invested so much already so replacing the frames is no big deal. I put out the photos to get some input on what I’m looking at.



Apivar kills few mites at first and more mites later, so it’s possible if your hive was really slowing down brood rearing, that your strips were just too late.









Anatomy of a mite crash.


I have posted this in the past, usually at that time of the year when folks are asking 'why did my bees abscond in [September / October / November] timeframes. ==================== Anatomy of a mite crash To understand the anatomy of a mite crash (often mistaken for a late season abscond by...




www.beesource.com


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## Drmolarmagic (Nov 4, 2021)

Well that’s the issue then. So next year I do my mite treatment in mid July the latest! This was an amazingly helpful post, thanks for linking to it for me. If I go into one of those frames and uncap then comb would I see the mite population? I’d like to put this stuff under my magnifying loupes and see what’s going on. 
Thank you!


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

Drmolarmagic said:


> It’s dark out here and no activity near the hive, I opened the top cover and there ain’t a bee in site.
> so this week I clean out and get rid of all the frames and I’ll replace them in the spring when I order new bees. Onto year 2 and we’ll do it all again!


why clean out the frames looks like nice comb with lots of pollen stored?

GG


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

PFiji said:


> Walk me through the decision to get rid of all the frames? As I enter winter with underdog hives, my thought process is that this year is not a complete waste from an equipment side if they don't make it. I will still have frames with drawn comb that can be used to get things going a little faster next year.


don't get rid of your frames.
shake and take what you can now.
freeze them for 3 days even if 3 at a time.
store till spring and with comb one can order a package, or a NUC or set out a Decoy.
if 5-8 years old we may have a culling discussion.

your thoughts are correct

GG


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## NUBE (May 24, 2009)

I don’t really like the fact that all the cells that look like they are/were capped brood have perforated cell cappings. I’d poke around in a couple of those and see what you find. Could be bad. Could be burn it in a pit bad.


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## Drmolarmagic (Nov 4, 2021)

Ok if that’s the case then should I just leave the frames as it and install the new package next spring? Is there a risk of mites living in those cells on larvae that will devastate next years colony? Just thought it would be safer to clean house. But if it’s safe to keep it all then I will. Any other advice welcome!!


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## Drmolarmagic (Nov 4, 2021)

I guess as a first year beekeeper I’m 
Looking for some “now what do I do?” Advice 
Keep the frames in the hive and just install again in Spring or get new frames?


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## Drmolarmagic (Nov 4, 2021)

Yes that was my concern, starting over and destroying these frames seems safest move. But I’m still gathering opinions.


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## TelmahQ (Jun 3, 2021)

Drmolarmagic said:


> Ok if that’s the case then should I just leave the frames as it and install the new package next spring? Is there a risk of mites living in those cells on larvae that will devastate next years colony? Just thought it would be safer to clean house. But if it’s safe to keep it all then I will. Any other advice welcome!!


Varroa can’t live without live bees for food for more than a few hours. If your frames don’t have bees, they don’t have mites. You can freeze the frames to protect them from pests (or briefly freeze them to kill any moth eggs and store somewhere moth proof).

By all means test for brood disease if you are concerned. But most beeks save their dead out comb for a head start for the replacement colony.


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## Drmolarmagic (Nov 4, 2021)

TelmahQ said:


> Varroa can’t live without live bees for food for more than a few hours. If your frames don’t have bees, they don’t have mites. You can freeze the frames to protect them from pests (or briefly freeze them to kill any moth eggs and store somewhere moth proof).
> 
> By all means test for brood disease if you are concerned. But most beeks save their dead out comb for a head start for the replacement colony.


Ok that’s good news I’ll consider doing that


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## NUBE (May 24, 2009)

I would definitely check for AFB as those perforated cappings would give me cause for concern. They could also be the results of end stage PMS as others have indicated, and there would be no concern in reusing those combs, to the best of my knowledge. With pollen and honey still present in some of those combs though AFB and EFB would be a very real concern were that my hive.


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## Drmolarmagic (Nov 4, 2021)

Out of an ABUNDANCE of caution I’ve ordered new frame for my deeps and the one super that’s on the hive. The rest of it will be used I'm not going to take any chances for my next round. Thanks again for everyone’s input


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## Drmolarmagic (Nov 4, 2021)




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## Drmolarmagic (Nov 4, 2021)

Post mortem time!! I opened up the hive and dissected various samples of brood some capped and some perforated. I can clearly see the mites and the larvae in various forms of development all turning to mush, confirming the diagnosis for the hive failure. Check out the photos
View attachment 71488

View attachment 71487

View attachment 71485

View attachment 71486


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## Drmolarmagic (Nov 4, 2021)

This is robbing !!!!!


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## ursa_minor (Feb 13, 2020)

for some reason I can't connect to you photos, I get the message "oops something went wrong"


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## Drmolarmagic (Nov 4, 2021)

ursa_minor said:


> for some reason I can't connect to you photos, I get the message "oops something went wrong"


Boy did it ever!!! 😜😂


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