# Whats the advantage of registering your hives?



## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*

some states will notify ya if spraying in your area. some need for inspection disease programs. look at your state club website if they have one.


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## johnwratcliff (Feb 24, 2015)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*

They let us know when there in an outbreak of disease within a few miles of your hives.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

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> what is the advantage of registering your apiary with the state?


What are your state laws?


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## dudelt (Mar 18, 2013)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*



Mike Gillmore said:


> What are your state laws?


It is required in WA state but it is also very inexpensive. I believe it was $10.00 last year.


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## AR Beekeeper (Sep 25, 2008)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*

In Arkansas beekeepers are required by law to register their location. The best estimate of those that actually do so is close to 50%.


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## razerback55 (Apr 12, 2015)

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Arkansas beekeepers are required by law to register their location and how many hives you have. 
It free, you will get a letter from ar state plant board saying approved. If one of your neighbors has
trouble with disease and calls for help they will let you know.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*

That's a high non-participation rate. In Ohio it's only $5.00 per apiary. I don't mind the registration fees at all. As others have mentioned, if there is a disease outbreak or spraying in the area you are on the list. Well worth a few bucks to protect my hives. Can't really think of any disadvantages, other than the few dollars out of my pocket. But that is insignificant.


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## Barhopper (Mar 5, 2015)

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Could potentially help you with liability. In Florida they say they will go to bat for you if your in compliance and have a problem


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*

In West Virginia where we keep our hives, registration is free. The main advantage for a beekeeper is that you get significant legal backing in case somebody complains about your bees ... the state is on your side providing you follow a remarkably short list of good bee stewardship rules, which include registration, water available, fences when needed, a sign letting folks know they are near bees, and some attempt at swarm control. You will also be notified of spraying.

You can request an inspection. The inspectors have a reputation for being helpful and offering good advice.

What the state gets is the right to inspect your hives and some information they need to file their reports and justify their existence. 

The honeybee is the West Virginia state insect.


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*

A neighbor a few miles away got a hot queen from TX that was suspected to be africanized the state inspector called me and told me to watch for aggression and asked if he could come check them when he was here he gave me a ton of knowledge and free advice


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*



Barhopper said:


> In Florida they say they will go to bat for you if your in compliance and have a problem


What exactly does that mean?


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## tech.35058 (Jul 29, 2013)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*

In Alabama the registration fee is about $5 per apiary up to about 10 hives.
The fine for non-registration is $200 per hive, plus possible confiscation of your hives ( as I understand it).
Plus, one of the state "bee/tree/whatever else they saddled him with" guy will come inspect if I am not too tedious. ... CE


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## the kid (Nov 26, 2006)

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in mn you let dnr know were your hives are ,, they will not spray any place around you ,, no charge


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*

Regardless of anything else.
Nothing to do with bees.
Nothing to do with inspectors.
Nothing to do with sprays.Nothing to do with apiaries.

Regardless of anything else, this is why you MUST register your hives if it is the law in your state:

Most lawyers and judges probably know little to nothing about bees or beekeeping.
When you are drug into court the plaintiff's attorney will have done his or her homework in your state to determine which laws are in place.
THE FIRST QUESTIONS ASKED of you will relate to those laws.
"Jcolon, do you know the laws that pertain to Beekeeping in this state?" the lawyer asks?
" Yes, I believe I do" you reply.
"Are you aware that every beekeeper with 5 or more hives are required to apply for an apiary license in this state?" he asks.
" Oh, well yeah, but nobody does it. It's on the books but never has been enforced." you irresponsibly reply.
(Remember; you are being sued for negligence. How did that answer bolster your defense???)

"Oh!" the lawyer says as he stands looking back and forth between you and the judge.
"Oh, there is a law, there is a provision for operating a bee operation legally, but you just don't care; is that right?" He asks.
"If you don't care about the laws of this state; do you care about safety? How about your neighbors? How about your neighbors safety? Do you care about that? 

Bottom line:
If you are drug into court, that will be THE FIRST thing mentioned and it will cast you as a scoff-law, enemy of society.
The fact that it is an unenforced forgotten rule will not play well at all when your future is in the hands of the judge and lawyers being paid to fleece you of every penny.

PAY THE LOUSEY TEN BUCKS!!!


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## liljake83 (Jul 2, 2013)

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HarryVanderpool said:


> Regardless of anything else.
> Nothing to do with bees.
> Nothing to do with inspectors.
> Nothing to do with sprays.Nothing to do with apiaries.
> ...


Honestly this is the best explanation ever! It is a lawsuit driven world anymore always think about that people will sue you at the drop of a hat think about your liability those lawyers will take everything you have


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## exmar (Apr 30, 2015)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*



Mike Gillmore said:


> That's a high non-participation rate. In Ohio it's only $5.00 per apiary. I don't mind the registration fees at all. As others have mentioned, if there is a disease outbreak or spraying in the area you are on the list. Well worth a few bucks to protect my hives. Can't really think of any disadvantages, other than the few dollars out of my pocket. But that is insignificant.


Couldn't agree more. Also, the bee inspector will give you lots of advice and "how to's" if you're interested. This year it was pointed out to me that one hive was weak and would require feeding which I already knew, but if I was new to this, great "heads up."

I own a farm so no problems with neighbors, but for suburban beek's, I'd think having registered and state inspected hives would be a good thing. Also, should there ever be an unfortunate occurrence resulting in litigation, being registered and being able to produce inspection reports from the state would indicate you're responsible and playing by appropriate state laws. Don't know about other states, but in Ohio, bees are considered livestock. I've heard that due to this you can tap into other state agencies for assistance, advice, etc. never explored that.

Good idea to have a different set of eyes look over your operation, "Forrest and tree's" y'know?


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## Radford (Jul 13, 2010)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*



Mike Gillmore said:


> That's a high non-participation rate. In Ohio it's only $5.00 per apiary. I don't mind the registration fees at all. As others have mentioned, if there is a disease outbreak or spraying in the area you are on the list. Well worth a few bucks to protect my hives. Can't really think of any disadvantages, other than the few dollars out of my pocket. But that is insignificant.


Remember RONALD REAGAN "I'm from the government, and I'm here to help. Its a way for them to get there hands on something else. I talked to the master beekeeper about the registration and was told it was mandatory but very inexpensive. Cost is not the problem its what happens in 3-5 years with the information they've collected. Just my 2 cents .


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## Jim Brewster (Dec 17, 2014)

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It's required but free in Maryland. Along with the registration, you have the option of being put on the statewide swarm removal and honey for sale lists.


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## Barhopper (Mar 5, 2015)

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Ace, it means what is in later posts. If you have a fence if needed, water supply, the correct amount of hives for the size of the property they are on, and a few other minor things they will back you in court if needed. They do inspect once a year for AFB. Cost is minimal with a sliding scale on cost for number of hives.


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## jcolon (Sep 12, 2014)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*



Radford said:


> Remember RONALD REAGAN "I'm from the government, and I'm here to help. Its a way for them to get there hands on something else. I talked to the master beekeeper about the registration and was told it was mandatory but very inexpensive. Cost is not the problem its what happens in 3-5 years with the information they've collected. Just my 2 cents .


My concern exactly.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*



Barhopper said:


> Ace, it means what is in later posts.


Thanks Barhopper. My concern is a state inspection division will be another agency that is underfunded creating another burden on taxpayers. If you look at the federal government specifically the FDA it gets some of its revenue in the form of fines from industry trying to make money. The bigger the company the bigger the fines and in most cases they leave the little guy alone even being way out of compliance. I can't see a state agency doing anything different. It kinda makes me chuckle when I see beekeepers who are making money think the state will protect THEM. I think they don't know how government agencies work.


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## jcolon (Sep 12, 2014)

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Plus 2 for Ace.


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## awebber96 (May 28, 2012)

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Wow, the anti-government conspiracy theorists sure came out fast on this one. Are we not a nation of laws? If you don't like it, write your legislator. Otherwise follow the law. 

It seems to me that registering a beehive is about as low on the "government intrusion on our freedom" spectrum as you can get. I trust those who advocate for others not to register their hives or "raise concerns" also don't register their vehicles, boats, dogs, buy hunting licenses, get drivers licenses, vote, or do anything else that lets the government "track us."

If you want to wear a tinfoil hat and worry that the Democrats will come for our registered beehives (presumably when they come for our guns), maybe you should worry about the fact that the NSA IS READING THIS RIGHT NOW. OH MY GOD! QUICK! STAY OFF THE INTERNET!


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## Vectorjet (Feb 20, 2015)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*

It's required by law in Pennsylvania, what I don't like if I read the regulation correctly is it allows the state to access your apiary anytime they want. If you follow the law you have now given permission for the state to access your property, no warrant required.


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## Terry C (Sep 6, 2013)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*

Razerback55 said :
Arkansas beekeepers are required by law to register their location and how many hives you have. 


How does one keep them updated as the hives increase ? File a new license form , or can you just call the plant board ? I did register my yard with one hive , but now have more and plans to increase again in the spring .


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## kaizen (Mar 20, 2015)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*

In NH it isn't required. I only had a few at my home so never bothered. The Towns all have spray notify lists so I signed up for that. But when I moved most of them to a farm I had a delimma. In talking to the farmer he said 20 years ago he used to keep bees. he said the bee inspector went to inspect his bees one day without him there. in the end the farmer said his dog was tied near the hives and got stung to death. needless to say I did not register. However I also have an issue with them going whenever they please without me there on someone else' land. They didn't give him permission to enter like they did me. Personally, even as a new beekeeper, in my area I don't see much benefit. And no way in hell would I ever think I'd get any support from any agency for something regarding a beehive. someone gets stung and what he's gonna say that I tended them well so let him off?


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## awebber96 (May 28, 2012)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*



Vectorjet said:


> It's required by law in Pennsylvania, what I don't like if I read the regulation correctly is it allows the state to access your apiary anytime they want. If you follow the law you have now given permission for the state to access your property, no warrant required.


The PA law says:

2110. Free access
The department, the chief apiary inspector and any apiary inspector shall have free access, ingress and egress to and from any apiary, premises, building or other place, public or private, in which bees, queen bees, wax, honey, hives or appliances may be kept or stored. No person shall deny to such duly authorized officer or agent access to any such place or hinder or resist the inspection of the premises.

It doesn't say anything about their ability to visit only _registered_ apiaries....it says _any_ apiary.


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## jcolon (Sep 12, 2014)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*

>If you want to wear a tinfoil hat and worry that the Democrats will come for our registered beehives (presumably when they come for our guns), maybe you should worry about the fact that the NSA IS READING THIS RIGHT NOW. OH MY GOD! QUICK! STAY OFF THE INTERNET!

The Democrats will probably try to get each bee registered to vote. :applause:


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## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*

Here in IL we are required to also, the inspectors are nice and decent, but overall its a freaking joke. While inspecting my hives we drive right past unregistered hives. nothing is ever mentioned. (doesn't bother me) you will get tax forms from the feds when you do register, you will be asked to participate in driftwatch, (never ever heard a word from that group), you are "banned" from moving bees across county lines without a permit, which is hilarious if you live close to a line, and oh yea, thanks to our wonderful leaders, In IL you have to be "licensed" to breed queens and sell them....

As mentioned the inspectors are nice and good bee people, great help to beginners. but we need some things like GA has in their program,


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## Vectorjet (Feb 20, 2015)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*



awebber96 said:


> The PA law says:
> 
> 2110. Free access
> The department, the chief apiary inspector and any apiary inspector shall have free access, ingress and egress to and from any apiary, premises, building or other place, public or private, in which bees, queen bees, wax, honey, hives or appliances may be kept or stored. No person shall deny to such duly authorized officer or agent access to any such place or hinder or resist the inspection of the premises.
> ...


This sounds worse then I thought then, just because you have anything related to beekeeping should not allow the government access to your property. Maybe the constitutional right to privacy would trump this,if not it just reinforces my believe the government has too much power and the land of the free is a myth.


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## kevindsingleton (Jun 6, 2014)

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Vectorjet said:


> This sounds worse then I thought then, just because you have anything related to beekeeping should not allow the government access to your property. Maybe the constitutional right to privacy would trump this,if not it just reinforces my believe the government has too much power and the land of the free is a myth.


Please, remind me of the section of the Constitution where your "right to privacy" is protected, again?

There are lots of activities that produce conditions that may be hazardous to other people if not conducted in a safe and hygienic manner. Bomb-making, for instance. Or, manufacturing fireworks. Or, producing food, or even keeping livestock, especially livestock that can harm others and is not entirely confined to your private property. If you want to enjoy your beekeeping without any intrusion, whatsoever, from government, you will have to ensure that your bees never leave your property. Seems ...tricky.


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*

Worried about unannounced inspections? With one or two inspectors in the whole state? Sheesh, my problem has been getting an inspector to come when needed. I live in one state, keep bees in another, and am pretty persnicikity about not moving hives across state lines without an inspection. Know how hard it is to get an inspector to come halfway across the state to check a nuc?

I once had a situation, not saying who or where, where the inspector came to inspect a nuc and handed over ten inspection stickers to cover the next ten nucs, because the guy making the nuc could detect AFB as well as the inspector could. He did say they needed feeding. And I must say, that nuc turned out to be stunningly good.

Right now the assembly area for the migratory beekeepers is active ... pretty soon there will be in inspector on hand checking migratory hives as fast as he possibly can.

If they do make an unannounced inspection, it will be because they are driving thru and notice they will be passing close to a small apiary they have never inspected. Got a little time for a change ... drop in and look. Wow, nice setup, a bear-proof fence. Yup, have a poultry waterer nearby. Hey, this beekeeper even put up Bee Crossing signs! No close neighbors. No pets tied up near the apiary where they might get stung (one of those good bee stewardship rules on their list), coming and going like good busy bees. Sniff. And no AFB. Hang a thank you tag on the fence. Back to the car.

My only regret would be that I was not there to meet them.


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## smoore (Feb 1, 2012)

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Acebird said:


> What exactly does that mean?


Recent Florida state law preempted all local laws, zoning and any other regulations on beekeeping except those by HOAs (because you join those voluntarily by deciding to purchase a house in one of those neighborhoods) but only for registered beekeepers. If you fail to register any city, county or other local entity can restrict what you do. If you register you only have to comply with the state BMPs if there is a complaint. And if you are registered they will fight the local entity trying to enforce their illegal laws on you.

Of course state law also requires that all beekeepers be registered so by failing to do so you potentially run afoul of the state as well as having to deal with local entities passing stupid anti-bee laws.


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## Jim Brewster (Dec 17, 2014)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*

Interesting discussion. In Maryland, or at least in my county, I don't recall which, honey bees are defined as wildlife. Therefore livestock laws (which tend to be pretty restrictive, especially in suburban areas) don't apply. As long as managed colonies are at least 50 feet from the street and 5 feet from the neighboring property they're good to go. Never mind that honey bees are not native wildlife, but at least this designation makes allowance for that fact that you can't confine bees to your property, and should protect you from liability if your bees sting your neighbor. At the same time, beekeeping is covered under agriculture, not wildlife management. It's inconsistent but makes sense in a way I guess.


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## trapperdirk (Nov 3, 2013)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*

In Ohio apiaries must be registered by June 1st of the year of registration, $5 each. However, you may file a *No-consent* form which prohibits the inspector from entering your apiary. No-consent does not absolve you from registering.

Even if a No Consent Form is submitted, the Ohio Department of Agriculture may still obtain a search warrant, pursuant to R.C. 909.05 and R.C. 2933.21(F), to inspect your colony(ies) for harmful pests.

BTW, the biggest operator near me (80+ hives within 2 miles) is one of the no-consenters.


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## Vectorjet (Feb 20, 2015)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*

While the words "right to privacy" are not written in the constitution. Amendments I,III, especially IV, IX, and XIV have been use by the supreme court in decisions to convey the right of privacy. Much like the words "separation of church and state" are not written. And while I could not contain bee's to my property in PA., apparently that does not matter because you could have no beee's, but empty hives or an extractor that I could contain on my property and I may still be subjected to visits from the government. I really don't have a problem with registering and the bee inspectors I've met were all nice people,but I should have some say as to when, who and how people have access to my private property. I don't think many people would like to come home someday and find people roaming around their house, even if they are from the government.


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

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Vectorjet said:


> I don't think many people would like to come home someday and find people roaming around their house, even if they are from the government.


I have a perfect stranger drop the gate and come up the driveway beside our cabin. I catch them at it on several game cameras. If I object and don't let them do it I kind of suspect the lights will go dark because the power company does need to read the meter. Then there is the propane delivery truck. Once in a while a tax assessor from the county (as unavoidable as death, but honestly the tax rate there is so low I'll accept them a lot better than I will the Reaper). I have yet to see hide nor hair of a bee inspector, tho' I'd welcome them.


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## jcolon (Sep 12, 2014)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*

Scary. Good I still holding to my guns ( and Bible). lol
Power company use remote read meters. Propane guy comes when I call him only. 
Tax assessor, never seen one here. 
Home owners insurance offers to come to asses risk ( AKA let me find how to hike your premiums) and I decline. 
Just saying. Like to see the discussion is going the exact way I intended, even though I didn't spell it out openly. 
Good thoughts team. 



Phoebee said:


> I have a perfect stranger drop the gate and come up the driveway beside our cabin. I catch them at it on several game cameras. If I object and don't let them do it I kind of suspect the lights will go dark because the power company does need to read the meter. Then there is the propane delivery truck. Once in a while a tax assessor from the county (as unavoidable as death, but honestly the tax rate there is so low I'll accept them a lot better than I will the Reaper). I have yet to see hide nor hair of a bee inspector, tho' I'd welcome them.


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## Vectorjet (Feb 20, 2015)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*

Apples to oranges comparison , You ordered the propane so you know he is coming. You contracted with the electric company for power, you can negotiate terms, by the way technology exists so your meters can be read remotely. The tax assessor, what can I say, another government intrusion upon your privacy that has total power over you. No matter what, they will have finally say over what you pay. Many people throughout history have lost their land and property because they could not pay.


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## DanielD (Jul 21, 2012)

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The meter reader isn't anything like someone inspecting an apiary without the owner. What if the meter was in your basement and he also had to check all your faucets and drains, even the ice maker in the frig. Would you keep the door open for them when you're away, and he as the ability to check any time he wants to? Same with the tax man. Let him dig through your drawers while you are away in case you have some hidden personal property that needs to be claimed. The tax man is just a servant for our own good, right? 

Missouri doesn't have mandatory registration. There may be a time when I want to, but I like that I don't have to. I don't know if there is any advantage in Missouri, but I remember in Iowa when I was considering it, the apiary would be listed somehow and pesticide applicators, whoever fits that description, were limited in their spraying times during the day, like not allowed between 8 AM to 6 PM. within one mile. I don't know that there was any other advantage.


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## kevindsingleton (Jun 6, 2014)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*



Vectorjet said:


> While the words "right to privacy" are not written in the constitution. Amendments I,III, especially IV, IX, and XIV have been use by the supreme court in decisions to convey the right of privacy. Much like the words "separation of church and state" are not written. And while I could not contain bee's to my property in PA., apparently that does not matter because you could have no beee's, but empty hives or an extractor that I could contain on my property and I may still be subjected to visits from the government. I really don't have a problem with registering and the bee inspectors I've met were all nice people,but I should have some say as to when, who and how people have access to my private property. I don't think many people would like to come home someday and find people roaming around their house, even if they are from the government.


The Constitution, likewise, does not specifically define a "compelling state interest", but I'm pretty sure that will appear in the order requiring any of us to submit to an inspection. You certainly can have a say in "when", and perhaps even "how", but you may not get to decide "who", though. That's life in a (more, or less) civilized society. It's still better than anything else the world has to offer! 

U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*

The registration form in WV last year gave us the option of requesting an inspection and I think also the option of allowing an inspection without our being present. I would rather be there because I think I'd learn something, but between our schedule and the inspectors, it might not work. But we have given them permission. And dang, I for one wish somebody had inspected the fools who imported _Varroa destructor_. Or the idiots who brought us _Nosema ceranae_. Or how about the amateur astronomer a century back who thought he could set up a silk business with gypsy moths?

Do I have a problem with it? No. They are welcome to inspect my hives. They are invited to.

I'm wondering if any of the people complaining about bee inspectors here are the same ones who have been complaining about treatment free beekeepers raising "mite bombs."

When I was a kid in Richmond, VA, we had an old house on Monument Avenue, with the gas meter in the basement. The meter reader had access. Screwy, but that's how the building was set up. Back when it first got gas, the servants let the meter reader in.

Yes, many rural areas have remote meter reading. I'm sure they wish this were installed in WV. Having to come out and read our meter, dropping a gate and coming up 700 ft of driveway in order to bill us for the $7 we used is a losing proposition for them.


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## ritan1 (Nov 10, 2015)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*

I'm new here, but it seems to me that the moment we sent hundreds of thousands of our stinging insects off our property to forage on other people's land, we gave up a bit of our right to privacy.


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## jcolon (Sep 12, 2014)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*

Last time I checked, I don't tell my bees what to do. Wish it worked that way. 



ritan1 said:


> I'm new here, but it seems to me that the moment we sent hundreds of thousands of our stinging insects off our property to forage on other people's land, we gave up a bit of our right to privacy.


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## dudelt (Mar 18, 2013)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*



awebber96 said:


> The PA law says:
> 
> 2110. Free access
> The department, the chief apiary inspector and any apiary inspector shall have free access, ingress and egress to and from any apiary, premises, building or other place, public or private, in which bees, queen bees, wax, honey, hives or appliances may be kept or stored. No person shall deny to such duly authorized officer or agent access to any such place or hinder or resist the inspection of the premises.
> ...


This also says "premises, building or other place, public or private". That means that a person who bought a bottle of honey at the store and put it in their pantry would be subject to inspection.


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## razerback55 (Apr 12, 2015)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*

Yes I don't remember how to update , Go to state plant board website and look it up.
I going need to update too. Arkansas.gov something or another.


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## Radford (Jul 13, 2010)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*

We pay taxes so the government can sell us clean water ( Florida) Pick up our trash put out fires police our streets make sure our food supply is clean and protect our shores. Seems to me they have put there hands into our life's way too much. Look back at this country 30 years ago. The regulations that have been pasted just keeps squeezing us and there are people that do not mind it and that's OK. Well for me its getting to tight. If you do not mind the government in your life that's your choice but please do not tell me to just accept it. We are Americans and we should always agree to disagree. I do not sell any part of my bee operation so why do they need to know I have a bee operation. I started the year with 11 hives now I have 4. Lost them to mites beetles and then the moths. I 'll keep trying till I get it right. I'll get help from other bkeeps if I choose too. Life is about choices. Sorry if you see life different but that is what makes America great we can be different and still get along.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*



awebber96 said:


> The PA law says:
> 
> 2110. Free access
> The department, the chief apiary inspector and any apiary inspector shall have free access, ingress and egress to and from any apiary, premises, building or other place, public or private, in which bees, queen bees, wax, honey, hives or appliances may be kept or stored. No person shall deny to such duly authorized officer or agent access to any such place or hinder or resist the inspection of the premises.
> ...


The Commissioner of Agriculture and his Agents, Inspectors, has more authority to go wherever they want to than an Policeman. Police have to have a Warrant and Reason to Search before they can enter someone's premise.

That said, I never entered anyone's home or apiary without their permission. I did hear about one time in NY when the Police were called to gain access to a barn with suspected diseased equipment in it.

People who want apiary inspection have no idea what they are asking for. And no idea what they really want. Apiary Inspection is regulatory, not extension.


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## woodsy (Mar 3, 2013)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*

Our registration fees are $2.00 for 1-5 hives , $5.00 for 6-10, $12.00 for 10-40 etc.
Probably never hear from the inspector unless disease hits the immediate area being just a hobbyist.
Cheap insurance is the way i look at it.

From the state's site.

The purpose of this program is to prevent the introduction and/or spread of regulated honey bee diseases, parasites, and undesirable genetic material in resident and migratory honey bee colonies, as well as encourage and maintain interstate movement of honey bees for crop pollination and honey production.

Major responsibilities of the program include:

licensing of resident beekeepers and permitting the entry of migratory bees from other states into Maine;
inspection of resident and migratory honey bee colonies for regulated diseases and parasites;
surveying commercial bee keeping operations for Africanized honey bee;
educating beekeepers, growers, and the general public about bee keeping techniques and the value of honeybees to Maine agriculture.
Anyone who keeps honeybees in Maine MUST obtain an apiary license.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*

woodys, have you ever been notified of an occurrence of AFB nearby? What have you been directed to do, if you have?

What about others? What kind of notice do you get when AFB occurs nearby? What direction or advice do you get from Apiary Inspection?


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## woodsy (Mar 3, 2013)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*



sqkcrk said:


> woodys, have you ever been notified of an occurrence of AFB nearby?


No, only been keeping for 3 years , haven't heard of anything but we are a bit isolated, probably a few other hobbyists around
and some blueberry fields that get bees brought in every year.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*

woodsy, have you ever been inspected? Have your neighbor's hives been inspected?


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## woodsy (Mar 3, 2013)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*



sqkcrk said:


> woodsy, have you ever been inspected? Have your neighbor's hives been inspected?


Nope, haven't been inspected and don't know exactly who the other local beekeepers might be , if any. 
We have 1 inspector for about 800 beekeepers state wide.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*

Then what, and don't just take my questions as someone being negative, do you get for your "insurance" payment?

I wonder what those who Tony Jadczak does inspect, those in the blueberry fields, pay? If they pay per apiary as you do they're getting a bigger bang for the buck.


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## woodsy (Mar 3, 2013)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*

I suppose i would get notified or a visit if something was gong down in the neighborhood ?

EDIT: Looks like importers pay the same fees as instate beekeepers


FEE SCHEDULE
Number of Colonies Registration Fee
1- 5 $ 2.00
6- 10 5.00
11- 40 12.00
41- 70 20.00
71- 100 25.00
101- 200 40.00
201- 300 60.00
301- 400 75.00
401- 500 90.00
501- 600 105.00
601- 700 120.00
701- 800 135.00
801- 900 150.00
901-1000 165.00
1001-1500 195.00
1501-2000 230.00
2001-3000 330.00
3001-4000 425.00
4001-5000 450.00
5001-6000 470.00
6001-7000 490.00
7000- + 5


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*

Mark when you migrate do you get inspected by the state you leave or the one you are going to, or is it both?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*



woodsy said:


> I suppose i would get notified or a visit if something was gong down in the neighborhood ?
> 
> Not sure how fees are levied on transient pollinators


I don't know why you would get notified. Could you call Tony and ask him, please? 

"Transient pollinators" are required by ME State Laws to have been inspected by the State they came from before arriving in ME. And then, before leaving ME they have to be inspected again before moving on to the next State they are going to. This is an agreement between States. An expense which each State pays itself.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*



Acebird said:


> Mark when you migrate do you get inspected by the state you leave or the one you are going to, or is it both?


The one I leave inspects and issues a Health Certificate for Interstate Transport. And the State my bees are going to issues an Entry Permit for Honey Bees. (Just so happens I have mine right here. Got it from SC yesterday.) So, 10% of my hives get inspected twice in one calendar year.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*



sqkcrk said:


> "Transient pollinators" are required by ME State Laws to have been inspected by the State they came from before arriving in ME. And then, before leaving ME they have to be inspected again before moving on to the next State they are going to. This is an agreement between States. An expense which each State pays itself.


so your hives are inspected when you enter NY. It was my understanding you only get "inspected" when leaving NY?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*

Not immediately when they arrive in NY. No. But some of them do get inspected pretty soon after they get into their Summer locations after apple pollination is over. Those inspected in late May or early June get included in the 10% inspected for interstate transport. 

It would be impossible for all of the hives that need inspection before leaving the State for them to all be inspected 30 days before their leaving. Unless we had ten times as many Inspectors as we currently do.


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## woodsy (Mar 3, 2013)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*

I can't find anything in the regs saying i will be notified if some other apaiary in the area has foulbrood etc.
I was just assuming that might happen . Anyhow for my little operation i will play the game for the $2.00 fee

From the regs:

Inspection

A.	Inspection Duties

1.	The State Apiarist and part-time bee inspectors employed by the Commissioner shall make such inspections of the apiaries or hive locations throughout the State as the commissioner deems necessary to determine the presence of regulated honeybee diseases or parasites.

2.	Inspectors shall, so far as practicable, inspect or cause to be inspected at least once each year any or all apiaries within the State of Maine.

3.	Inspectors may enter at all reasonable times, upon the premises of any keeper of bees or hive locations and make the examination of such bees, equipment and appliances found on the premises as he may deem necessary to determine the presence of contagious or infectious diseases or parasites.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*

And what if you didn't? Are there fines for not registering your apiary(ies)? And if you don't know which neighbors have hives, how would anyone know you do? Anyone in authority.


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## woodsy (Mar 3, 2013)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*

yup , fines can be levied for non-compliance.

Violations

A.	Violations

1.	A violation of Section III. Licensing Requirements, IV. Importation Requirements, or VI. Inspection is a civil violation for which a forfeiture of not less than $1 nor more than $50 shall be adjudged for each colony in violation of these sections.


Only the inspector would know who has hives locally, only if they were registered.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*



sqkcrk said:


> People who want apiary inspection have no idea what they are asking for. And no idea what they really want. Apiary Inspection is regulatory, not extension.


 you have the necessary experience as both bekeeper and inspector (in 2 states) to educate
on these points. clear the apiary inspection issue up a bit, as you see it.
what is good, what is bad and why?


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*



sqkcrk said:


> It would be impossible for all of the hives that need inspection before leaving the State for them to all be inspected 30 days before their leaving. Unless we had ten times as many Inspectors as we currently do.


but if the 30 day b/4 leaving the state thing is part of the states agreement, that would make NY non compliant I would guess.

so when you leave SC and go to NC to pollinate, you get inspected in SC, then possible NC, then you move back to SC, are you then inspected again before shipping back to NY?
give me a scenario. thanks


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*

"you have the necessary experience as both bekeeper and inspector (in 2 states) to educate
on these points. clear the apiary inspection issue up a bit, as you see it.
what is good, what is bad and why?"

I don't see that happening. No one who has any power or authority or control over purse strings is interested in what I have to say. And I don't know if I would want to be responsible for what was created if they did.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*



sqkcrk said:


> The one I leave inspects and issues a Health Certificate for Interstate Transport. And the State my bees are going to issues an Entry Permit for Honey Bees. (Just so happens I have mine right here. Got it from SC yesterday.) So, 10% of my hives get inspected twice in one calendar year.


So it is the from and the to and the certificate allows you to pass the other states you cross?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*



wildbranch2007 said:


> but if the 30 day b/4 leaving the state thing is part of the states agreement, that would make NY non compliant I would guess.
> 
> so when you leave SC and go to NC to pollinate, you get inspected in SC, then possible NC, then you move back to SC, are you then inspected again before shipping back to NY?
> give me a scenario. thanks


NY inspects before I leave for SC. SC inspects before I leave for NY. Each issues Inspection Reports, Health Certificates, and Entry Permits. Comprende'?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*



Acebird said:


> So it is the from and the to and the certificate allows you to pass the other states you cross?


Yes.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*

I'm going to say this and I hope people don't get mad.

Except for a back yard beek like myself where education could be involved inspections are a complete waste of time for controlling disease. The medical industry relies on documentation and procedures far more than inspections.

Think about this for a moment. You as the beekeeper are already doing inspections and most likely at the appropriate time. If it was recorded and noted what was found and how it was dealt with all the state needs is the paperwork. Now the state agency is not running all over the place doing spot checks looking for something that isn't there.
Now before you go flying of the handle and suggest people would cheat on the reports I will simply state that in the medical industry when you are found (and it will happen) you will get fined so severely that you may not recover from it financially. And then there is the possibility of jail time.


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*



sqkcrk said:


> Apiary Inspection is regulatory, not extension.


Inspection is regulatory in most cases. We can, however, request an inspection for educational purposes. I've been told the few inspectors in WV are friendly and helpful, although I would expect a lot of new beekeepers hear that they have some rather large gaps in knowledge. Our first pair of nucs were put together by a former WV bee inspector (we bought the nucs in WV because that's where our apiary is).

Our Virginia bee club invites our local or the chief state inspector to give a talk once or twice a year, and I'd say they definitely do "extension" services. The chief inspector turns out to support the general TF concept (wishes commercial apiaries would set aside 25% of their colonies as TF, fully realizing the short-term consequences). That was a real eye-opener of a talk. I missed our meeting earlier this week in which we had a speaker from Virginia Tech, definitely an extension service.

The state inspectors in Virginia think AFB is very rare now, although still feared and to be dealt with fast and hard. It remains the main thing they are looking for in migratory hives.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*



Acebird said:


> I'm going to say this and I hope people don't get mad.
> 
> Except for a back yard beek like myself where education could be involved inspections are a complete waste of time for controlling disease. The medical industry relies on documentation and procedures far more than inspections.
> 
> ...


now where did that rating system go The very simple answer is, the back yard beek doesn't know what the diseases look like, and not enough have been trained in the bee wellness program to help out, and many of the beeks are like you(no offense meant), but they don't look in their hives either, until suddenly there is no activity at the entrance, and my bees just disappeared, they looked good the last time I looked. Now lets not have inspections, and put jail time in it's place if your hive develops a disease and you get caught, now that would really maybe get people excited.opcorn:


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*



sqkcrk said:


> And what if you didn't? Are there fines for not registering your apiary(ies)? And if you don't know which neighbors have hives, how would anyone know you do? Anyone in authority.


And herein lies the problem. I think an inspection program could be developed that a majority of beekeepers would participate in because of the advantages. Do we need the carrot and the stick, likely so. As anyone here more than 5 years knows I blistered inspections many times here when they were authoritative and passing "controlling" type legislation. NY always gets it wrong, For Example, NY seatbelt law advertisiements are "ticket or click it", that NY we just gonna hammer you every chance we get. Drive into PA and the signs are about being safe and buckle up the next million miles, now which attitude would make you more likely to buckle up and like it. The question posted was about the advantages of registering and the response to NYS law is focused on not getting fined not any real benefit to the beekeepers.


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*



sqkcrk said:


> Yes.


That answer pertains to crossing states between the "from" and the "to." But a friendly reminder should go to all the drivers of these trucks, in no way does the inspection certificate permit you to roll the danged truck over and spill ten million bees in one of the in-between states.

Drive safely!

It does make one wonder about rescued hives, though. Technically, I'd think the state's beekeeping regs would require an inspection. At least it is comforting to think that they have, in fact, been inspected in the "from" state.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*



wildbranch2007 said:


> The very simple answer is, the back yard beek doesn't know what the diseases look like,


Mike, I don't think you understood what I said.



> Except for a back yard beek like myself where education could be involved


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## mcon672 (Mar 5, 2015)

So back to the original question, is there any benefit to registering? Has anyone out there ever had a bad experience from not registering(fines etc)? I'm with some of the others on here, I don't think ANYONE should ever have free access to my land without my prior consent and me being present. By prior consent I mean a phone call or certified letter stating exact day and time the inspection will occur, not consent because I registered. This would also be for the inspectors safety, if I see a stranger on my land I'm going to go meet them with the trusty Ruger in hand. I don't care about a fee, what's a few more bucks the government steals from me, it's the intrusion by a stranger that I have a problem with. I think more people would register if inspections were on a by request only basis. That way those that want inspections could get them and those of us that want to be left alone would be able to be compliant.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*



Phoebee said:


> That answer pertains to crossing states between the "from" and the "to." But a friendly reminder should go to all the drivers of these trucks, in no way does the inspection certificate permit you to roll the danged truck over and spill ten million bees in one of the in-between states.
> 
> Drive safely!
> 
> It does make one wonder about rescued hives, though. Technically, I'd think the state's beekeeping regs would require an inspection. At least it is comforting to think that they have, in fact, been inspected in the "from" state.


I find this Post most quizzical. Cause me a head shake reaction. Under what Inspection Certificate are you permitted to roll over and spill ten million bees in one of the in between States? Makes me wonder ...


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

mcon672 said:


> That way those that want inspections could get them and those of us that want to be left alone would be able to be compliant.


Would you like to be protected in some way from your noncompliant disease ridden neighbor's hives? If Apiary Inspection can do one thing it is to HELP protect your hives from your neighbors and hers from yours. But coverage has to be consistent and regular and thorough.


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## Terry C (Sep 6, 2013)

*Re: Whats the advantage of registering yur hives?*



razerback55 said:


> Yes I don't remember how to update , Go to state plant board website and look it up.
> I going need to update too. Arkansas.gov something or another.


It's plantboard.arkansas.gov , and it looks like you have to download/print the application , fill it out and either give it to an inspector or mail it in . I'm trying to decide whether to register a couple of outyards , but the guy that has the property may be selling soon .


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> If Apiary Inspection can do one thing it is to HELP protect your hives from your neighbors and hers from yours.


I know you were an inspector once so you believe this. Are you that confident that an inspector will get to the infected hive in time? To all the infected hives in time? Will it be found or will it be right at the stage that the inspector can't see the problem and the outbreak occurs shortly after? You said you get 10% inspected prior to moving a load out of state. What about the other 90%. It would be so easy to miss the onset of an outbreak. It would be far more cost effective if the beekeeper was required to report problems rather than just pass a test.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

Acebird said:


> It would be far more cost effective if the beekeeper was required to report problems rather than just pass a test.


How effective would you be at detecting a malady? 

And what "value" is there in your report, stating that "I didn't see anything"?


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

BeeCurious said:


> How effective would you be at detecting a malady?
> 
> And what "value" is there in your report, stating that "I didn't see anything"?


Of course there is no value, very unlikely Brian could discern between AFB, EFB, snot brood and New Jersey Mud. I was a part of the problem as a hobbyist too, not throwing any darts here. The issues becomes outside the series Delaplane did there is little out there on disease identification that delineates clearly enough. Of course no inspection can catch every case, the goal in inspection would always be containment. Do we think we could have self reporting for having a bald tire, a brake issue, breaking the speed limit, not wearing a seat belt? Self reporting is the height of ridiculous, it goes against our DNA as most of the kids who self reported to their parents in the cave man days didn't live long enough to breed. Instinctively as kids we learned to lay low and hope our sister didn't find out when something we did was wrong. History has shown that the worst outbreaks have happened in the absence of an inspection program and during the outbreaks many, many efforts were focused on concealing or masking the problem despite self reporting in the long run would have saved hundreds of hives, just in the 2001 outbreak. Other than the big outbreak in the early part of the 1900's which just wiped out beekeeping in the US, the only thing which has stopped an outbreak is the intervention of inspections.


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## mcon672 (Mar 5, 2015)

I've outed myself here but I plan on registering my hives soon. I do want to be legal. My problem is with granting free access to my land. Set up an appointment and WE can inspect the hives. I know seven other beeks. Only two of them are registered, one is a commercial and one was a pretty serious side liner so it would have been impossible for them to fly under the radar. So how many unregistered hives are out there? Honestly I didn't even know I was supposed to register until my second year. I didn't join a club or have a mentor just the net and books. In theory it sounds like the program would stop outbreaks but if only 10% of hives are being inspected how effective is it in reality? Since resources appear to be limited maybe inspections would be more useful on a request basis. Then the inspector would be focusing his time on problem hives or newbie hives.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

BeeCurious said:


> And what "value" is there in your report, stating that "I didn't see anything"?


Are you asking me personally or as a system for control?

As a system of control the reports are not "sent in" unless asked for. They are kept on site or at least in an office of the business available to any inspector that request them. They are dated and organized by any method you want (but you better know how to find them).

If you are asking me personally I might have to be trained on what to look for but the system of records would be the same. And FYI reports are much more informative if they state what is seen not what is not seen so maybe you need to be trained on how to do a report that is meaningful.

Just as in any system that relies on inspection an outbreak has to occur in order to find something except in the system I am referring to you don't have 200 inspector running all over the place chasing ghosts. With a reporting system an outbreak occurs it gets reported and then inspectors are call to the scene to deal with the crisis and most likely help the individual find out what went wrong. Try to prevent the occurrence again. This is exactly how it is done in the medical field and we are talking life and death here in some instances.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Joel said:


> Do we think we could have self reporting for having a bald tire, a brake issue, breaking the speed limit, not wearing a seat belt?


Joel, if you take one prescription drug or set one foot inside a facility that provides medical treatment your life is dependent on self reporting. I think it works a whole lost better than you think and the FDA has a history that proves it works.


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## mcon672 (Mar 5, 2015)

Ok after reading about how effective self reporting is maybe I can see the need for inspections. All I'm asking for is advanced notice so I have the opportunity to be there.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Acebird said:


> If you are asking me personally I might have to be trained on what to look for but the system of records would be the same.


When you had the chance, did you go to a BeeWellness Workshop or get some training from someone who did? This training on what to look for, if it cost you a small fee, would you pay for the training?


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

Acebird said:


> Joel, if you take one prescription drug or set one foot inside a facility that provides medical treatment your life is dependent on self reporting. I think it works a whole lost better than you think and the FDA has a history that proves it works.


I don't see the comparison Brian, no one's life is at stake so where's the incentive. How does the FDA program function?


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Joel said:


> I don't see the comparison Brian,


The comparison is do you want a system that works of do you just want to smoke out all the newbie beeks in your area? I got a feeling what you want and it ain't something that works.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> When you had the chance, did you go to a BeeWellness Workshop or get some training from someone who did? This training on what to look for, if it cost you a small fee, would you pay for the training?


The fee means nothing to me. Is the beeWellness Workshop approved by the state as a teaching arm for NYS beekeepers? Is it funded by the state? If you go to the workshop and digest what they promote will you be considered a safe beekeeper in the state? Here is the big one ... are they all about dumping chemicals in the hive because Lord knows varroa will kill every bee in the state in a blink of an eye?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I guess that means you don't know anything about NYS Bee Wellness. I'm not surprised. That's one reason this conversation is so unproductive.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Well OK. Just out of curiousity how many people in the state know anything about NYS Bee Wellness? How about Mark B., who he is and what he represents? Do you think you are well known? I will bet there isn't 3% of our club (midyork beekeepers) that know you. And I am sure less than that who know NYS Bee Wellness. Midyork is just one club close by.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

ESHPA has done what it can to keep people aware of what happens in NYS when it comes to Bees and Beekeeping. Members of Mid York have taken the class. There are Threads on beesource about NYS Bee Wellness. NYS Bee Wellness has a website. nysbeewellness.org

It's a program that Pat Bono got started 4 years ago. I don't know where you or anybody else from Mid York has been if they haven't heard of NYS Bee Wellness. Maybe selfreliance isn't what it's cracked up to be.

If you really want to know how many people have been through the program, Pat Bono could probably tell you. But I suspect you'd rather make a point or score a point than find out. It's a "Train the Trainers" Program, so there should be exponentially more people touched by the program than took it themselves.

I don't know what knowing me has to do with anything.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Brian, When the student is ready, the Teacher will appear. You never seem to be ready, nor willing. I, and everyone else on beesource and in NYS, can talk all I want, can yell all I can, and until you are actually interested in knowing something the effort is wasted. People have to make an effort to know what is going on in their State. It isn't kept secret. If you want to know something, learn something, there are ways. But you have to make an effort.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> ESHPA I don't know what knowing me has to do with anything.


I guess it means you will get spit in the face if you don't know what Bee Wellness is.

I could care less how many people went through the program. What I was trying to determine is should I take part in it because it helps me in what I am doing and if it doesn't should I spread the word anyway because it might help someone else in what they are doing. I don't do well with finger lashing. I perceive it as a lack of intelligence.

People have other lives. Our club may have 12 meetings a year which involves of an hour and 50 minutes of beekeeper babble and maybe 10 minutes of sustenance. I will bet it is not much different than most clubs. I can't afford the time when most things are going on. I might make 2 meetings a year.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

Acebird said:


> Our club may have 12 meetings a year which involves of an hour and 50 minutes of beekeeper babble and maybe 10 minutes of sustenance.


Very similar to some members posts on Beesource.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

I'd say Mike deserves some rep points for that that post! 



... now if I could only find that star button ...


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Acebird said:


> What I was trying to determine is should I take part in it because it helps me in what I am doing ...
> 
> Our club may have 12 meetings a year which involves an hour and 50 minutes of beekeeper babble and maybe 10 minutes of sustenance.


I gave up telling you what you should do long ago. Who am I to tell you what to do? As far as I know, you have never done anything I said you should do.

Have you ever brought that up at a meeting? Ever asked for more substance? I know your club has field days. I've been to them myself. Must have been before your time. Have you ever met Michael Bassett, aka wildbranch, at a Mid York Meeting?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Now what were we talking about? What benefit registration? Do we have a list of benefits yet?


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## jcolon (Sep 12, 2014)

I guess that if your crazy old cat lady neighbor get pissed at you and sue you "the government will protect you". That's what they do best. We all know that. :lpf:



sqkcrk said:


> Now what were we talking about? What benefit registration? Do we have a list of benefits yet?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Now you are just making jokes, aren't you?


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> I'd say Mike deserves some rep points for that that post!


:thumbsup:

Just say it... *Mike Gillmore is a glorious beacon of ligbt.*


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## jcolon (Sep 12, 2014)

No I'm serious. Don't you feel safer today? We got ISIS contained. 



sqkcrk said:


> Now you are just making jokes, aren't you?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

So it was your original question that was the joke?


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

sqkcrk said:


> When you had the chance, did you go to a BeeWellness Workshop or get some training from someone who did? This training on what to look for, if it cost you a small fee, would you pay for the training?


I'm starting to agree with Acebird, no need for inspections nor registration. Make the law read all beeks are required to take a course on disease recognition, failure to take the course and you get caught, $500 fine, and you must work for a commercial beek for 6 months.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

Acebird said:


> Well OK. Just out of curiousity how many people in the state know anything about NYS Bee Wellness? How about Mark B., who he is and what he represents? Do you think you are well known? I will bet there isn't 3% of our club (midyork beekeepers) that know you. And I am sure less than that who know NYS Bee Wellness. Midyork is just one club close by.


you really should join the web site for MidYork, if people read the Emails sent out they get all the stuff on the ESHPA and the AIAC meetings and bee wellness, so if they don't know or are not interested it's there/your own fault. and as I said in a previous post, Pat Bono, posts on the Mid York web site, not really hard to join it, give it a try


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

Acebird said:


> Our club may have 12 meetings a year which involves of an hour and 50 minutes of beekeeper babble and maybe 10 minutes of sustenance. I will bet it is not much different than most clubs.


hate to tell ya but the club meets every other month


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

sqkcrk said:


> Must have been before your time. Have you ever met Michael Bassett, aka wildbranch, at a Mid York Meeting?


nope, I'm a member but it's too far to go, I use the email system to communicate, but I did see Ace at a seminar in Chittenango at the library, didn't know it was him until he posted his picture on here.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

wildbranch2007 said:


> you must work for a commercial beek for 6 months.


Is the State going to pay commercial beekeepers for the trouble, the bother?


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

sqkcrk said:


> Now what were we talking about? What benefit registration? Do we have a list of benefits yet?


If you want registration, the state has to give the beeks something that they don't have, I know that's counterintuitive in NY. I can't remember which state it is and would have to go back and read posts, but for example, the registered hives that meet the defined rules of safety, are protected from being sued would get my interest. Protection from large operations dropping a yard next door to yours would also perk my interest. Although most people wouldn't want It I think, a public database that you could look up an area and see If it's open to put a yard in. A communications system at the state level to keep beeks informed as to the current goings on in the state. And when it evolves into inspections, the owner of the hives can request it's only done while the owner is present. start there and other that Ace I think you would get some traction.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

wildbranch2007 said:


> you really should join the web site for MidYork, and as I said in a previous post, Pat Bono, posts on the Mid York web site, not really hard to join it, give it a try


What's the url?


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

sqkcrk said:


> Is the State going to pay commercial beekeepers for the trouble, the bother?


 , I was trying to see how many I could get in a row b/4 someone chimed in, I got up late.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

wildbranch2007 said:


> hate to tell ya but the club meets every other month


Which ones and when? Still the same place? The Co. Ext. Office Bldg?


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

sqkcrk said:


> What's the url?


https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/midyorkbeekeepers/conversations/messages

I think you have to join, but I can't remember how, try to get in and let me know, I'm sure if you ask to out your email in as President of ESHPA they would let you, or ask Pat Bono.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

sqkcrk said:


> Which ones and when? Still the same place? The Co. Ext. Office Bldg?


they will send you an email if you get on the site, but yes at the Co. Ext. second tues, every other month.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

wildbranch2007 said:


> And when it evolves into inspections, the owner of the hives can request it's only done while the owner is present.


That has always been the way things are done. Kris doesn't just show up, inspect, and then let me know. He calls and we talk about when inspection can happen. My option to be there or not. Some times I have other things to do. Other times I can be there.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

wildbranch2007 said:


> they will send you an email if you get on the site, but yes at the Co. Ext. second tues, every other month.


This month? Next month? Not sure?


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

sqkcrk said:


> This month? Next month? Not sure?


this was the last meeting posted on the site ace doesn't use.

Mid York Beekeeping Association
October 2015


Your beekeepers association invites you to the October meeting to be held Tuesday evening, October 13th, 7:30 P.M. at the Oneida County Co-operative Extension Center in Oriskany. The building is located near the old Oneida County Airport on Judd Road.

To get there from State Route 69, go to Airport Road and head towards the airport. At the traffic light, turn left onto Judd Road and drive about 1/2 mile. The building is on the right.

To get there from NYS Thruway exit 32, go north on Cider Street heading towards the airport for about 3 miles, turn left onto Judd Road and go a little more than a mile. The building is
on the left.

If you prefer computers, use this link to find it on MapQuest http://mapq.st/1FV1jbK.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> Have you ever met Michael Bassett, aka wildbranch, at a Mid York Meeting?


The name does not ring a bell.


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## Terry C (Sep 6, 2013)

sqkcrk said:


> Now what were we talking about? What benefit registration? Do we have a list of benefits yet?


 Well , at least in Arkansas one benefit is knowing if there's another apiary near you . If there's a possibility of foraging area overlap you need the other beekeeper to sign a form before they'll issue your registration . I'm happy that I didn't need to do that , means I'm more isolated from possible pest and disease transfer to my hives .


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

wildbranch2007 said:


> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/midyorkbeekeepers/conversations/messages
> 
> I think you have to join,


You have to sign on to Yahoo and then put up with all the Yahoo crap. Then you can join the group ... no thanks. If the club wants to buy a dot com address and host a web page I will join.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Terry C said:


> means I'm more isolated from possible pest and disease transfer to my hives .


Also means you percentages for a good mating are less.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

Acebird said:


> The comparison is do you want a system that works of do you just want to smoke out all the newbie beeks in your area? I got a feeling what you want and it ain't something that works.


You got a feeling, I guess then we should add clairvoyant to your skill set? As hard as everyone seems to try to "get" what you are talking about you offer virtually no fleshed out ideas and facts, just contrary opinions to what everyone else says. You speak of medical and FDA practices yet you offer not a single detail when asked. Interpretation, you either have no idea or really aren't interested in solving issues. If you know this FDA system and it works so well then why not spell it out and give us some insight to a possible working structure carry over? 

I was vehemently against inspections prior to the 2000 AFB outbreak in NYS. Once you have kept bees long enough to face an outbreak you'll be able to understand the ramifications as you are watching a thousand dollars worth of bees, honey and woodenware burn and have to be buried because "non-intervention" beekeepers who don't know disease identification infected your hives, every hollow tree and open wall and bit of empty equipment within 100 miles with AFB. AFB spores persist for a minimum of 35 years (Dr. Keith Delaplane) What you will find is a good, neutral inspector almost becomes an extra employee for a few hours every season. These inspectors are in hundreds of hives all over the place and see all the dark clouds and positive possibilities in a season and most have valid working field experience. You'll learn more in an hour with a good inspector than you will in a year at Bee Club meetings you describe. What want is an inspection service that is more along the lines of an extension concept ( extension from the days agents went out to farms), a solid inspection program and off season educational opportunities. The biggest complaint I hear from "our" beekeepers is the lack of good comprehensive beekeeping courses. There is a way a good program which would serve beekeepers and be cost effective could exist.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

Ok, since no has actually answered this 
Benefits of registration/inspection ;
1) 2nd set of experience eyes checking my hives for issues they are trained specifically to find
2) Interstate transport permit
3) Report from NYS stating what was found (mite levels, disease issues etc.) ( this is great annual comparison tool)
4) Report from Beltsville indicating accurate analysis of any issues found
5) Real time information and assistance in abating any hive health impact issues
6) Prevention of a majority of AFB outbreaks and control of outbreaks which may occur
7) A voice with state politicians on the state of beekeeping
8) on site guidance and education about new issues, prevention measures and treatment regimens

Mark - any others you can think of?


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

Joel, Are you assuming that registration includes an inspection program?
We have mandatory registration in Oregon, if over 5 hives.
No inspection program / inspectors.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

No inspection here, but they will notify you of any potential sprays and even send survey information for the year if you want to participate.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Joel said:


> Ok, since no has actually answered this
> Benefits of registration/inspection ;
> 1) 2nd set of experience eyes checking my hives for issues they are trained specifically to find
> 2) Interstate transport permit
> ...


What's this? "7) A voice with state politicians on the state of beekeeping"


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Joel said:


> I was vehemently against inspections prior to the 2000 AFB outbreak in NYS. ...every hollow tree and open wall and bit of empty equipment within 100 miles with AFB. AFB spores persist for a minimum of 35 years (Dr. Keith Delaplane)


It hasn't been 35 years yet so if it happens as you say why are there still bees around? Did the inspectors go around burning every hollow tree, open wall and piece of empty equipment within 100 miles? Nearly impossible don't you think?

I tried to explain the FDA system of control. It is mainly records that you the beekeeper creates, files, and stores where an "inspector" could come view them. You do your own hive inspections, write what you see on each and every hive typically on a schedule. You would have to record where your equipment came from, when and if it was used, and where it was used. And more certainly if it was moved, when and where. That is called traceability. That is how you know where an outbreak originated instead of just flashing a finger at the little guy. Did he infect you or you infect him. If you can't identify what your looking at than you simply need to be trained. If you are not going to train the people who need training you are peeing in the wind to think you can control disease by inspectors with green hats.


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## Terry C (Sep 6, 2013)

Quote Originally Posted by Terry C 
means I'm more isolated from possible pest and disease transfer to my hives .




Acebird said:


> Also means you percentages for a good mating are less.


Chances may be lower , but I've got 4 great queens out in my hives that were mated here . The upside to all of this is that a large percentage of the bees in a 10 mile radius came from the same TF beekeeper/breeder that I got mine from (he buys new breeder queens every other year). I'm not sure where the nearest hives are , but I do know the guy I got mine from is only about 6-7 miles from me "as the bee flies" . I believe this makes it much more likely I'll be able to stay treatment free ...


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## jcolon (Sep 12, 2014)

Terry C said:


> Well , at least in Arkansas one benefit is knowing if there's another apiary near you . If there's a possibility of foraging area overlap you need the other beekeeper to sign a form before they'll issue your registration . I'm happy that I didn't need to do that , means I'm more isolated from possible pest and disease transfer to my hives .


So if they deny it you are doomed?


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## Terry C (Sep 6, 2013)

I said : 
Well , at least in Arkansas one benefit is knowing if there's another apiary near you . If there's a possibility of foraging area overlap you need the other beekeeper to sign a form before they'll issue your registration . I'm happy that I didn't need to do that , means I'm more isolated from possible pest and disease transfer to my hives .
Then jcolon said : 
So if they deny it you are doomed?

I'm not sure ... I suspect it wouldn't be that big a deal , maybe the other guy would want to have your hives inspected to be sure you don't have diseased bees . I think if I am ever asked I'll at least want to talk to the "other guy" , see what kind of operation he's running . I'd be a little leery of a 5,000 hive commercial pollinator setting up a yard across The Holler from me ...


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## flatfootflukey (Jun 15, 2010)

> So if they deny it you are doomed?


if you own the land {not rent or lease } your placing bees on then others are notified of your hives going in but they can not stop you from placing them there.
if you don't own the property then any one registered within a 2 mile radius or your proposed location has the ability to say no, and if anyone says no then that is it.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

flatfootflukey said:


> if you own the land {not rent or lease } your placing bees on then others are notified of your hives going in but they can not stop you from placing them there.
> if you don't own the property then any one registered within a 2 mile radius or your proposed location has the ability to say no, and if anyone says no then that is it.


say Mark this sounds good, how about getting this included in our state registration, I would even go with the distance being 1 mile.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

So, Mike, you want NYS Legislation controlling the frequency and density of bee hives in NYS? 
State registration? The only Registration I am aware of is voluntary.

flatfootflukey wrote "If you own the land you are placing bees on, then others are notified of your hives going in, but they cannot stop you from placing them there. If you don't own the property, then anyone registered within a 2 miles radius of your proposed loaction has the ability to say, "No.", and if anyone says "No", then that is it."

So, let me get this straight. When I bring my hives back to NY from SC and NC I have to tell NYS exactly where each and every hive is going to be placed? Whether on my own property or on someone else's property? Each time I move hives? How far in advance? And then what? Someone in Albany sends each and every owner of a registered apiary w/in a certain distance, which someone in Albany has to figure out, a post card? And then there is expectation that those receiving post cards are going to approve or object in a timely manner? Would I have to wait for approval to place hives? Would I have to move hives if after placing them there it was determined that some landowner nearby had bought one hive during the period when my hives were away?

What about out apiaries that have been long established, but only occupied 6 months each year? If someone nearby buys a hive and places it on their own property they then can keep me from filling that yard again?

What if I found locations where I could put one hive every 2 miles radius from each other. would that prohibit anyone else from doing the same? Even on their own property?

What about when I unload the semi from SC right into the apple orchards near Peru, NY? Prior notice to Albany required? And notification is sent to each beekeeper w/in a set radius of those orchards so they can object? Could the beekeeper with the hive on the edge of one of the orchards I pollinate object to me placing hives on that orchard's property, thereby denying me income and the orchard owner pollination service?

Logistical nightmare comes to mind.


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## [email protected] (Aug 1, 2004)

Mark's points are valid. We need less government in our lives, not more. IMO the AFB 'scare' is just that...and certainly not something that 'government' should or could control.

While we have little inspection service just now in NY, I'd vote for dropping even that and going to what Joel advocates; some kind of extension service out of Cornell.

Lloyd


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

So, my hives are registered and I get a visit once per year from the inspector for my area. Certainly, a LOT has to do with the person who shows up for the visit. Mine is good. He is experienced; takes his time and leaves a copy of his visit with me. Since he has the benefit of having seen lots of colonies I've never had a visit without a lot of insight. If I'm not home, he'll call me on my mobile as he wraps up and shares what he's seen for swarming, flow, forage and disease. He offers advice on a per hive basis if needed. He always leaves his cell phone on the inspection report in the event I need to call him for anything. One year he alerted me to a bear in the area (too late though since it had hit one of my sites twice the weekend before). He's an annual speaker at the local bee club. There may be some folks who don't want to be disturbed or don't need the insight or may be in disagreement with the advice offered but not me. Finally, I live on the main road through town. My hives are 30 feet from that road. It's not uncommon for me to get an unexpected visitor while I'm working my bees. Every once in a while someone will ask about disease or people being stung or "killer bees" and I'm not shy in saying that my hives are registered and that they have been inspected. It's really NOT an answer to their question nor does it truly address their concern(s) but it does seem to make a difference in their perspective. 

What I find odd is that the hive inspection is more vigorous than the kennel inspection that we have to do yearly (required for the dog tags since we have 4 or more dogs). The kennel inspection consists of having the animal control officer walk into the house, look out the slider and ask if the fenced area in the yard is where the dogs go when we let them out. "Yes". He asks where they sleep. "Anywhere they want". End of inspection and kennel license is issued. 

At least for the bees, I get something out of it.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

sqkcrk said:


> So, Mike, you want NYS Legislation controlling the frequency and density of bee hives in NYS?
> 
> Logistical nightmare comes to mind.


answer yes, I want something in place that controls the density of hives.
Lets return to what appears to be going on in NY. the commercial beeks are worried about the non-commercial polluting there hives with diseases. the commercial beeks posting to this thread want inspections. The pollination protection gyrations are pointing to registration and inspections. The next AIAC meeting agenda has two items on it, the PPP and a talk on how good registrations are. I posted earlier, if you the commercial beeks are/want registration short of forcing it down everyone throat again, the carrot instead of the stick approach would work far better. So I Wildbranch do specify that I and a few of my friends want, a safety program that if followed exempts us from frivolous law suits.
A searchable database with locations of yards in NY, and some method to restrict the number of large yards that keep getting dropped in our back yards, like say one yard over 20 hives in a one square mile area. I'm sure that would give all the commercial's plenty of yards and protect the single hive people, and sideliners.:thumbsup:


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

sqkcrk;1348949
So said:


> Note to Mark, You are already required to notify the state of NY, if you move hives into NY or move hives within NY. maybe you don't do it but it's still a requirement. So if NY doesn't know you are back from SC, how are you getting inspected??? when you get back. because they happen to know you, what about the commercials they don't know???
> if you guys want a system, I want one that works.opcorn:


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

> Section 175. Transportation of bees and bee material.
> 
> 1. No person shall transport, move, sell, barter, offer for sale or
> barter, deliver, or offer for transportation any colony of bees
> ...


the way I read this, everyone has to notify the commish 10 days b/4 moving the bees. Of course it's written so I can read it multiple ways.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

wildbranch2007 said:


> a talk on how good registrations are.


You got that from a one word meeting segment title "Registration"? I guess, since you already know what Paul Cappy is going to say, there is no need for you to be present at the meeting. Clue me in and I won't have to be there either.

20 hives in a one square mile area? And what if a beekeeper wanted to keep 21 hives or 40? Does the area have to grow accordingly? Or would the yard count be kept to 20 or less by some means? If you had one hive in a yard could I put 19 on the other side of the fence from you?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

wildbranch2007 said:


> if you guys want a system, I want one that works.opcorn:


Paul Ballard used to send a Post Card to the Commissioner of Ag every time he moved bees, w/in the State. That was 30 years ago. I don't know anyone else that did that or does. Maybe you do? I was never, as an Inspector or as a beekeeper, told I had to do that or that I was supposed to tell others they were either. Though it is right there in the Law.

Sure, the State knows when I move my hives back to NY. Or, at least they know I am going to do it. Not exactly when or to where. I don't know about others. Though I do wonder. I bet there are a lot of hives that leave NY w/out paper work from the State.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

sqkcrk said:


> You got that from a one word meeting segment title "Registration"? I guess, since you already know what Paul Cappy is going to say, there is no need for you to be present at the meeting. Clue me in and I won't have to be there either.
> 
> 20 hives in a one square mile area? And what if a beekeeper wanted to keep 21 hives or 40? Does the area have to grow accordingly? Or would the yard count be kept to 20 or less by some means? If you had one hive in a yard could I put 19 on the other side of the fence from you?


you don't read what I write, I said one yard that could have 20 or more hives, you could put 40 if you liked, but only one yard that large. This stuff isn't really rocked science, other states have done it, are you saying the beeks and politicians in NY are not as smart as the ones in other states??


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

sqkcrk said:


> You got that from a one word meeting segment title "Registration"? I guess, since you already know what Paul Cappy is going to say, there is no need for you to be present at the meeting. Clue me in and I won't have to be there either.
> 
> 20 hives in a one square mile area? And what if a beekeeper wanted to keep 21 hives or 40? Does the area have to grow accordingly? Or would the yard count be kept to 20 or less by some means? If you had one hive in a yard could I put 19 on the other side of the fence from you?


here is the agenda for the meeting.



> 1:00 Continuation of the meeting
> · Benefits of registration in Canada……………………………….......Emma Mullen
> 
> · Pollinator Protection Stewardship Council, Inc.……………………Michele Colopy
> ...


it says benefits of registration in Canada……………………………….......Emma Mullen. says BENEFITS doesn't say NEGATIVES and cappy isn't doing the speaking, so yes I can tell you what
capyy will be saying on this subject. nothing


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

now I wouldn't want anyone to think that the AIAC is rushing to get Inspections in place but from the july 17, 2015 meeting that you attended.I have the print but not online so I will have to type it.

The group suggested forming a subcommittee in advising the Dept. on what they would like to be seen in domestic inspections. the committee is made up of the following members:

Dan winter (comm beek)
Jim Doan (comm beek)
peter teneyck (not sure)
Jon Ryan (not sure)
Mark Berninghausen (comm)
Scott Mcart/Emma Mullen - cornell

so the AIAC is discussing it, set a committee to submit some suggestions, most of the committee is commercial beeks and the person from cornell is giving the speech on the advantages of how well registration works in Canada. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, I start to duck:kn:


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

wildbranch2007 said:


> you don't read what I write, I said one yard that could have 20 or more hives, you could put 40 if you liked, but only one yard that large. This stuff isn't really rocked science, other states have done it, are you saying the beeks and politicians in NY are not as smart as the ones in other states??


So, no limit as to how many per yard? And I could have an unlimited number in the next square mile adjacent?

Do you know anyone with bees in those States that have Yd Density Restrictions? Do you know anyone who has wanted to start a sideline bee business in any of those States? If there is an apiary already registered in the Section in which they own land, one that was registered there before they bought the land w/in that Section, they can't have bees there. On their own land.

On top of that, they may have to, like someone I met a visited with who lives in one of those States, travel a long distance to find an unoccupied Section suitable for keeping bees on and suitable for an apiary with an owner willing to allow them to set up an apiary there.

And you want "politicians" figuring this sort of stuff out? Not me. Much easier to let things be the way they are and let beekeepers get to know each other and come to understandings.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

wildbranch2007 said:


> here is the agenda for the meeting.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, I guess since you brought up Cappy and Registration that you were referring to the first half of the day's meeting where After the Business Section appears the word "Registration" with Paul Cappy after it. Which means to me that Paul Cappy will be saying something about "Apiary Registration". Did you think that meant registering for the Draft, since it appeared on a "DRAFT" copy of the Agenda? 

I don't know why Emma is talking about that, "Benefits of Registration in Canada", unless it is to give weight to the idea that if yards are registered then notification about spraying will be easier. Another point to make for NY to adopt the not yet fully ratified "Ontario Plan".


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

wildbranch2007 said:


> now I wouldn't want anyone to think that the AIAC is rushing to get Inspections in place but from the july 17, 2015 meeting that you attended.I have the print but not online so I will have to type it.
> 
> The group suggested forming a subcommittee in advising the Dept. on what they would like to be seen in domestic inspections. the committee is made up of the following members:
> 
> ...


A committee which has never met, never talked about meeting, and has nothing to say since it hasn't met. Peter ten Eyck is an apple grower. An AIAC member. Jon Ryan is a sideline beekeeper.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

sqkcrk said:


> And you want "politicians" figuring this sort of stuff out? Not me. Much easier to let things be the way they are and let beekeepers get to know each other and come to understandings.


ok so you are now voting with me no registration right?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

If anything voluntarily.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

sqkcrk said:


> If anything voluntarily.


we're back at the beginning, for the NY conversation anyway.

There is a level of fear, or is it protectionism, regarding registration and inspection in NY. I can't seem to put
my finger on it. Whichever it is (or even something else maybe) I don't see going the current path as
healthy for NYS beekeepers and the business of beekeeping.


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## [email protected] (Aug 1, 2004)

Could not agree more. Too much water under the bridge.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

what is the fear (if that's what is is)? is it the cut off your nose in spite of your face protectionism?
what's being protected, or better yet what's being exposed to cause the resistance?
what are the 'powers that be' afraid of?
from my understanding (maybe limited, maybe not) it makes little sense.

BTW: love my pollen traps, Sundance bottom type!


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

What is the fear? For me there is no fear. I only think that people expect something they can't get from the program. I get the idea that some people think that Apiary Inspection can save them from something, which it isn't really designed to do. Or that it can act like an extension program, teaching and advising, which it also is not designed to do.

I believe that whenever I talk to Peter Loring Borst or some other former Inspectors they say they were never told not to recommend to beekeepers how to manage their bees or how to treat them for Varroa, because that would make the State, or at least Ag & Mkts, responsible should something go wrong, should the colony die or come down with disease.

Be careful what you wish for. You might just get it. At what cost? Those who will pay the price will be the Commercial Beekeepers, because they are the biggest target, most obvious, and have some need for inspection for interstate transporting hives. The rest of the beekeepers in the State are most likely not going to get much, if any, attention. 

Just consider the cost and the availability of man power. Apiary Inspection wanted to hire an extra Inspector or two this year. They got one candidate. My age. From what I remember, his son owns the bee business he built. (just like some Apiary Inspectors whose wife own the business, back in the day?) He didn't pan out. What does that tell you? It tells me that if ever the purse strings are loosed and the Dept is allowed to hire even only half a dozen new Inspectors to restart the program, it's going to be difficult finding those people to do the job. And then to keep them.

How would Ag&Mkts go about rebuilding the County registration lists? Slow building, I would imagine. Even if they started with what they still have left from 2006, or whenever the last year was when Inspection was more comprehensive. If it's done like the last years I worked, even if an Inspector learns through a telephone conversation that a previously registered beekeeper no longer owns bees the vacancy has to be verified visually. Which in itself is expensive.

This is somewhat complex and more involved than some might expect.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Whew, I have been busy extracting, filtering and bottling. All I got to say is I can see where the back yard beek is major threat to disease control in NYS.



> I bet there are a lot of hives that leave NY w/out paper work from the State.


Hopeless, absolutely hopeless.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

sqkcrk said:


> This is somewhat complex and more involved than some might expect.


only in NY, many other states and Canada have it, like it, and it works.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

sqkcrk said:


> Be careful what you wish for. You might just get it. At what cost? Those who will pay the price will be the Commercial Beekeepers, because they are the biggest target, most obvious, and have some need for inspection for interstate transporting hives. The rest of the beekeepers in the State are most likely not going to get much, if any, attention.


actually on reflection, Mark absolutely answered your question regarding Inspection and Registration with the above statement. So why should the sideliners and hobbyists want either. That's why I kept posting about giving them something that they would be interested in, but from Marks reaction, that's not acceptable. But then again, I knew that b/4 I wasted all my time posting to this thread.:lpf:


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

sqkcrk said:


> Be careful what you wish for. You might just get it. At what cost? Those who will pay the price will be the Commercial Beekeepers, because they are the biggest target, most obvious, and have some need for inspection for interstate transporting hives. The rest of the beekeepers in the State are most likely not going to get much, if any, attention.


And when they do get attention, many complain, saying, "Why are you bothering me? Why aren't you going after the big guys? They are the problem." Everyone thinks that everybody else is their problem.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

sqkcrk said:


> What's this? "7) A voice with state politicians on the state of beekeeping"


Certainly when state budgets and beekeeper needs are being addressed I am confident a state apiarist is 1st person a legislator or budget maker would contact and listen to.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

HarryVanderpool said:


> Joel, Are you assuming that registration includes an inspection program?
> We have mandatory registration in Oregon, if over 5 hives.
> No inspection program / inspectors.


You are very right Harry, there is no need for registration w/o inspections and in my mind it is an all or nothing thing. In New York if someone sprays pesticides w/o checking with the state apiarist and getting notice to affected beekeepers that person may be held liable. Not sure I believe that ever happens. Everyone registers and is inspected or no one is. The guy with under 5 hives is more likely to not know what they have than the the guy with a 1000 hives.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

Acebird said:


> Whew, I have been busy extracting, filtering and bottling. All I got to say is I can see where the back yard beek is major threat to disease control in NYS.


Brian, from what I know about the 2000 outbreak it was primarily backyard beekeepers and a few sideliners who were the victims and vectors for AFB. I did not hear of a single Commercial operation infected. Our local bee club literally got burned out of existence.

You are likely right about the hopeless, what does the government do right?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Joel said:


> Certainly when state budgets and beekeeper needs are being addressed I am confident a state apiarist is 1st person a legislator or budget maker would contact and listen to.


Then it might surprise you to learn that the three times in the last two years that I have been contacted about possible Legislation no one at Ag&Mkts knew about it before. Or would admit to it.

Just because something seems to make sense doesn't mean that's how it is.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Joel said:


> You are very right Harry, there is no need for registration w/o inspections and in my mind it is an all or nothing thing.
> 
> Everyone registers and is inspected or no one is.
> 
> The guy with under 5 hives is more likely to not know what they have than the the guy with a 1000 hives.


So, are you saying that you would not register your apiaries unless you were guaranteed they would be inspected?

If there is no registration before inspection how is an Apiary Inspector supposed to know where to go to find what needs inspecting. If there is no registration before inspection how would the Dept know how many Inspectors to hire?

Statistics and my own personal knowledge tells me that the person with 5 hives is more likely to be where AFB would be found.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

sqkcrk said:


> Statistics and my own personal knowledge tells me that the person with 5 hives is more likely to be where AFB would be found.


gee when clyderoad(sp) said we had gone full circle, I assumed we must be done.

so if statistics say the person with 5 hives is more likely to have AFB, where does that person get his hives, most buy packages and nucs for the commercial beeks:scratch:
The AFB problem in 2000, where did that club get there bees from?? we have gone what 10 years with no inspections and no registration without an outbreak of AFB, now of course with no antibiotics being available(got a better bee catalogue yesterday, only oxytet available was in a patty?) then yes I agree we will have more AFB, but the sideliners and hobbyists don't use it, so where is the epidemic going to come from:digging: see you at the meeting tomorrow.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Keep in mind, the statistics and the experience I referred to are not recent. According to data taken during a number of years of Inspection, it was determined that more AFB was held by those with fewer hives. The smaller apiaries had a higher percentage of AFB.

It is not where the bees came from as much as it is the beekeeper and his/her knowledge and interest level. Commercial Beekeepers have a business model attitude towards taking care of their bees. Which can be a different way of thinking compared to someone who does beekeeping as a Hobby.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

ok the aiac meeting is over, the results are in, I will post all the information on the aiac meeting thread once I can get it uploaded. in a nut shell, required registration, with penalties if you don't, with out passing a new law using whats already on the books, including the part of the law that says you have to notify the commish, whenever you move or sell bees.
but only the beek is being registered for information purpose so they can make informed decisions, and the data will Only be used by cornell and other people doing bee research to help get funding.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

looking forward to seeing the aiac release. 
registration of yards? beekeeper? both? nothing about inspections?
thanks mike.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

it more like registering the beek, and the beek reporting # of hives by county, as the need county statistics for the researchers to get money.


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