# Reuse of hive parts when exposed European foulbrood



## beehonest (Nov 3, 2011)

I have been through EFB it's not that big a deal. AFB is the bad one .EFB has a ring of bad brood around the outside of the brood pattern and no strings. I gave them some terramcin patties. I like the patty method much better than the three sprinkles of powder across the frame ends. I had it years ago still have those two hives, no problems since. You can also remove the queen and use the treatment free method as you are thinking, never tried it. Antibiotics worked for me.


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## Riskybizz (Mar 12, 2010)

It sounds as if you might have a couple things going on queen wise. As I'm sure you know EFB is known to be a stress related disease. Most advocate re-queening the colony. Terramycin is quite effective. Last spring I made up some splits and two of them began to show symptoms of EFB. 2- 3 treatments of Terramycin cleared it up dramatically. While I am not a strong advocate of drugging my bees I do like keeping my bees alive. As far as re-using equipment goes I'm sure you will get different opinions. I disposed of the infected brood combs and replaced with clean drawn comb. Get them on some 2:1 syrup if your introducing foundation as a replacement. I would not hesitate to reuse the boxes, bottom boards etc. We used to use Terra a lot when we ran 3000 colonies.


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## Riskybizz (Mar 12, 2010)

I would go so far as to say that its no big deal but it isn't the monster either.


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## Dave Burrup (Jul 22, 2008)

Walt I agree with the previous two posts. We had it in a couple of hives last spring. We treated with Terramyacin for three weeks. We are still using the hives and frames, and the colonies in them are in super shape with no reoccurrence of the disease.
Dave


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## wcubed (Aug 24, 2008)

Thanks, troops,
Had a few packets of Terra in the chem cabinet, but had never used any. Dated 12 03. May give them a dose of that until we can get some fresh.
Walt


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

I have had it show up several times the last few years. Neither Mann Lake patties or Duramycin did much. Three colonies continue to languish. I melt down the combs when they die off. I am considering shaking or exterminating those.


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## wcubed (Aug 24, 2008)

O D, 
You've turned me around again. Do you suppose that your EFB has developed some tolerance to terra? Spent the morning circulating through farm supply stores in the area. Found both Dura.. and Terra Vet, but no Pfizer. All have 10 grams of active ingredient.
Back to square 1.

Walt


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Randy Oliver OK'ed the use of Duramycin, it was all I could get in a small quantity from the Feed Store. I mixed one part to five parts sugar and dusted three time a week apart. I have not been able to cure EFB with antibiotics.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Was it Randy Oliver that spoke of "Snotty Brood" that was off color and dying?I Be careful, we have seen such on occasion, but I do not think we ever figured out EXACTLY what it was. It may not be EFB If you have 4 hives, try 4 different things.


Crazy Roland


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## wcubed (Aug 24, 2008)

Roland,
Good thought. Three hives with exactly the same indications. In the last couple weeks our bees have just jumped into full-up expansion mode - more than a single frame of all-larvae brood. The broodnests of all three look the same. Same start time and same deterioration rate. That's not what I would expect for an introduction to EFB. Much too well organized.
Will give the little queen unit another week to start laying before taking any action there.

Walt


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

wcubed said:


> Dated 12 03. May give them a dose of that until we can get some fresh.
> Walt


Most antibiotics have a shelf life. If you give them out dated medicine it could strengthen the disease. I thought terramycin could not be used in bee hives anymore?


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

> Terramycin
> ·	Terramycin is a member of the antibiotic family of tetracycline. Its generic name is oxytetracycline hydrochloride. It can be purchased online and through beekeeping equipment catalogs. It is sold either in pure, unadulterated form or pre-mixed for treatment. Terramycin should only be used on uninfected hives when there is a known infection in the area, especially when bees are likely to steal honey and pollen from other hives. If a hive becomes infected by either version of foulbrood, Terramycin is no longer an appropriate treatment.
> 
> 
> Read more: http://www.ehow.com/about_6298886_foulbrood-treatment-terramycin.html#ixzz2xpEOPEhS



http://www.ehow.com/about_6298886_foulbrood-treatment-terramycin.html


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Roland said:


> Was it Randy Oliver that spoke of "Snotty Brood" that was off color and dying?I Be careful, we have seen such on occasion, but I do not think we ever figured out EXACTLY what it was. It may not be EFB If you have 4 hives, try 4 different things.
> Crazy Roland


This is interesting. I have seen the snotty brood last summer and the inspector swore up and down it was AFB. Sent off samples to Beltsville for confirmation and it came back as EFB. Possibly a newer strain of EFB we are not used to seeing yet. I asked the inspector if he wanted to take the colony with him for further investigation, but he was reluctant so I just burned it instead. Apparently his due diligence was done!


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Possibly a newer strain of EFB we are not used to seeing yet

That could be a possibility. If i remember correctly, it cleared up in the fall when we started feeding, and was usually found only in "Zero" hives(think of a major player who's name starts with a "Zero", and ends with where my Native American friend calls home).

We eliminated those genes and the problem did not return.

Waaaaiiiit!!!! I just remembered the cure. Give them enough frames of capped brood from a healthy hive to make up about half of he bees present. After things look better, kill and replace the queen. 


Crazy Roland


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

Acebird said:


> I thought terramycin could not be used in bee hives anymore?


http://www.masterbeekeeper.org/mgmt/antibiotics.htm from cornell

•Terramycin® is the trade name for the antibiotic oxy-tetracycline – HCl, the only antibiotic registered for the PREVENTION of American foulbrood (AFB). Terramycin® is also registered for control of European foulbrood (EFB). Terramycin® is often called TM for short.


•Terramycin® should be mixed as a dust with powdered sugar to deliver 200 mg active ingredient per 1 oz dose of TM/sugar mixture. 



•Three, 1 oz doses are applied at 4 - 5 day intervals in the early spring and again in the fall after removing the crop.

•You must observe a 42-day withholding period after your last application of the TM/SUGAR mix before adding supers for marketable honey


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

That is copywrited 2008 what document do you have for 2014?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

> I thought terramycin could not be used in bee hives anymore? 

In most of the world antibiotics of all kinds are illegal in beehives. But we are the "Better living through chemistry" country...

>•You must observe a 42-day withholding period after your last application of the TM/SUGAR mix before adding supers for marketable honey 


The half life of OTC (Terramycin) at 34 C is 12 days.
http://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/docs/00/89/08/99/PDF/hal-00890899.pdf

tylosin, the other approved antibiotic for use in bees, tylosin has a half life of 102 days at 34 C... (longer if cooler)
http://www.gov.mb.ca/agriculture/crops/production/pubs/2013_recommendations_may14_final1.pdf

This recommends four weeks withdrawal period for Tylosin which is no where near its half life...
http://www.gov.mb.ca/agriculture/crops/production/pubs/2013_recommendations_may14_final1.pdf

It's a good thing we in the US don't have antibiotics in our honey...


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## wcubed (Aug 24, 2008)

Treated with terra yesterday. Used the above-linked instructions. Added the dry mix on the top bars at the recommended rate of 1 gram per hive. (All four) In addition, lightly sprayed the affected brood areas with the sugar water mix. 

Will do this 2 more times at 4 day intervals and see what happens.

Walt


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Michael Bush said:


> > It's a good thing we in the US don't have antibiotics in our honey...


A little sarcasm Mike...


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

just now caught this thread walt. i know ya'll must be disappointed, good luck with the treatments.

are these the colonies that received the syrup sprayed into the empty comb back in february? if so, was a ph lowering agent used?


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

Acebird said:


> That is copywrited 2008 what document do you have for 2014?


what documentation do I need, I still have the packets that say how to use on bees, still legal in the NY.

how about the fda.

http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/animaldrugsatfda/details.cfm?dn=008-622


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Interesting, you are suppose to burn a hive that has an AFB outbreak but the FDA has allowed a drug for treating it. And anyone can get their hands on it? Makes perfect sense.:scratch:

Any expiration on the package?


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## the doc (Mar 3, 2010)

Not really that surprising. One should burn or irradiate an infected afb hive however it would be within reason to prophylacticly treat for afb in non affected hives within a contaminated operation/yard before other hives also develop symptoms, especially in large commercial operations


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## the doc (Mar 3, 2010)

Also with respect to EFB I researched this quite a bit last year and the consensus of several sources was to shake swarm all affected colonies onto cleaned equipment. Most sources recommended oxytet administration initially after the shake swarm. Melt/render all combs

It does not sporulate but it's tough for bees to clear it in heavily affected colonies


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## wcubed (Aug 24, 2008)

squarepeg,

A couple of these 4 were fed S/W at that time. No consideration for ph of the syrup. Since that time both raised, empty deeps have filled with brood and stores, and have been lowered to the bottom.
Walt


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

the doc said:


> however it would be within reason to prophylacticly treat for afb in non affected hives within a contaminated operation/yard before other hives also develop symptoms, especially in large commercial operations


I don't believe the antibiotic will do anything to the spores left behind so if the other hives do not have an infection what good would it do where as prophylactic treating can do a lot of harm?


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

wcubed said:


> squarepeg,
> 
> A couple of these 4 were fed S/W at that time. No consideration for ph of the syrup. Since that time both raised, empty deeps have filled with brood and stores, and have been lowered to the bottom.
> Walt


understood walt, so the s/w was not a common denominator. i can't remember where i saw it but it seems like i remember reading somewhere that the higher ph of syrup can give efb and other pathogens a foothold.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

>Reuse of hive parts when exposed European foulbrood
>Specifally, the title of the thread is important

Not one of you **** intellectuals have answered the original question.
I took a beautiful box of comb off a hive from an EFB brood chamber. I extracted it, I dried it on a healthy hive. What do I do with it?
I am catching swarms and bait hives left and right.
Can I use the EFB combs to expand these hives or am I spreading the disease?
Did I contaminate the extracting equipment and every comb associated with the EFB combs?
Are the steam melted frames and other woodware associated with the EFB hive contagious?

What the hell do they mean by a "stress" disease? Three remaining hives EFB hives are sitting next to hives several supers into the honey flow. These hives have all the bloom they need year around. One thing they do not have is nutritional stress. 
Is it emotional stress? A lot of their neighbors die every winter.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

odfrank said:


> Not one of you **** intellectuals have answered the original question.
> 
> What the hell do they mean by a "stress" disease? Three remaining hives EFB hives are sitting next to hives several supers into the honey flow. These hives have all the bloom they need year around. One thing they do not have is nutritional stress.
> Is it emotional stress? A lot of their neighbors die every winter.


a guess of the top of my head is being your from San Mateo, CA , that the stress your bees are suffering from is the constant worry about dropping into the sea when the big one hits.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

odfrank said:


> One thing they do not have is nutritional stress.


You are confident that the bees have enough food. I am not so sure they are getting the right food.

Are the blooms being treated with chemicals?
Are the hives being treated with chemicals?
We already know the beekeeper is putting contaminated frames on healthy hives and then asking questions.

I would say these are stresses.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

wildbranch2007 said:


> a guess of the top of my head is being your from San Mateo, CA , that the stress your bees are suffering from is the constant worry about dropping into the sea when the big one hits.


All three hives with EFB are east of the San Andreas fault so they will actually end up being on beachfront property.


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## Deepsouth (Feb 21, 2012)

The few times I had hives with EFB I gave them a few frames of capped brood and a young queen and it cleared up on its own. I found with EFB once the hive gets week they are doomed. The frames of capped brood gives them a good boost in population which seems to be the key. 
The EFB hives are still going strong in the same equipment.
I also noticed that the hives that had EFB had a high mite count as well which probably lead to the stress that supposedly causes EFB.


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## the doc (Mar 3, 2010)

Acebird said:


> I don't believe the antibiotic will do anything to the spores left behind so if the other hives do not have an infection what good would it do where as prophylactic treating can do a lot of harm?


The spores are created within the scale of an infected hive. Any hive with abnormal brood should be destroyed . However what to do with the remaining non-affected colonies within the quaranteened yard? Surely they one must assume they have at least been exposed. If they do not show signs of afb (and therefore have no spore containing scales) prophylactic treatment may prevent them from ever developing the disease and save one thousands of dollars 

A similar idea is used in treating outbreaks in humans. We will often treat a population which has been exposed but does not show the disease to prevent them from getting a disease.


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## the doc (Mar 3, 2010)

As far as EFB I believe several extension services also said one could fumigate non affected combs similar to how one fumigated for nosema (ie no destroyed brood)

Otherwise cleaning with bleach should be sufficient since it does not form a spore like afb. Clean hive tools, gloves, smokers, anything which could have been contaminated


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

Deepsouth said:


> The few times I had hives with EFB I gave them a few frames of capped brood and a young queen and it cleared up on its own. I found with EFB once the hive gets week they are doomed. The frames of capped brood gives them a good boost in population which seems to be the key.
> The EFB hives are still going strong in the same equipment.
> I also noticed that the hives that had EFB had a high mite count as well which probably lead to the stress that supposedly causes EFB.


makes sense if ehb is a short lived infection and doesn't outlive the next strong round of bees.

added: another possibility is that the combine brings a compliment of resistance with it.


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## Chemguy (Nov 26, 2012)

Might this be an example of what's been called idiopathic brood disease? It's been making the rounds up here, at least a little bit, and it looks a lot like EFB from what I've heard. Folks have had success with 9 oz. duramicin-10 mixed with 2 lb powdered sugar. Apply 2 tablespoons of the mix to top bars three times, separated by 4-5 days between each application. Or, place 3 T three times, 10-14 days apart. The problem cleared up with this treatment.

ETA: Remove honey supers.


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## Dave Burrup (Jul 22, 2008)

called idiopathic brood disease

Maybe this is what we dealt with last year. I used diagnostic kits and got negative results for both foul broods. We then sent them to the bee lab and got a no disease found diagnosis. While waiting for the results from the lab we started treating for EFB because the symptoms were so much like EFB. The treatment worked great, and cleared up the problem. The only thing I am sure of is the problem was bacterial.
Dave


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

Chemguy said:


> Might this be an example of what's been called idiopathic brood disease? It's been making the rounds up here, at least a little bit, and it looks a lot like EFB from what I've heard. Folks have had success with 9 oz. duramicin-10 mixed with 2 lb powdered sugar. Apply 2 tablespoons of the mix to top bars three times, separated by 4-5 days between each application. Or, place 3 T three times, 10-14 days apart. The problem cleared up with this treatment.
> 
> ETA: Remove honey supers.





Dave Burrup said:


> called idiopathic brood disease
> 
> Maybe this is what we dealt with last year. I used diagnostic kits and got negative results for both foul broods. We then sent them to the bee lab and got a no disease found diagnosis. While waiting for the results from the lab we started treating for EFB because the symptoms were so much like EFB. The treatment worked great, and cleared up the problem. The only thing I am sure of is the problem was bacterial.
> Dave



cg, dave,

i don't believe feeding syrup is evil but i stopped seeing sick brood in my hives after i start making sure they had honey only to eat. most of that comes from honey they have made or honey that i'll feed back to hives that need or at least can use it for build up, checkerboarding, ect.

since both of you report brood infections i'm wondering if either or both of you feed syrup, and if yes, did you acidify it?


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## Dave Burrup (Jul 22, 2008)

Mark we feed sugar syrup every year. Last year was the first time in 6 years that we had trouble, and it was only in a couple of hives. I do not think feding sugar is the problem that some believe.
Dave


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## ForrestB (May 26, 2013)

Acebird said:


> I don't believe the antibiotic will do anything to the spores left behind so if the other hives do not have an infection what good would it do where as prophylactic treating can do a lot of harm?


Exactly.

I lost several hives last year to AFB and decided not to remaining hives with TM because a) it will not kill spores and b) if there is AFB in the hive, all you succeed in doing is masking its presence. Spores may remain viable for years, an important study showed that nothing other than total immersion in chemicals will completely eliminate spores from wood, and therefore any infected but asymptomatic hive treated with TM becomes a time bomb. Best to leave untreated and monitor closely. I am a relatively new beekeeper and having to burn hives broke my heart and I desperately wanted to treat with antibiotics the remainder, but as I was told right here on BeeSource, better to know now if a hive is infected than to find out in a year or two when it comes back and wipes out all of my increases.


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## Framed (Apr 6, 2014)

Odfrank and The Doc - 

How do you perform the "Shake Down" method of curing EFB? I need to do this, and have a lot of questions. I'm afraid of making the bees abscond.


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## Framed (Apr 6, 2014)

We've had a lot of EFB in our area these past couple of years. Some people seem to have gotten it under control, others not. How did it go for you all?


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

Tetracycline is available as an injectable liquid. If required how many mg are added to what weight of patty as a feed?



wildbranch2007 said:


> http://www.masterbeekeeper.org/mgmt/antibiotics.htm from cornell
> 
> •Terramycin® is the trade name for the antibiotic oxy-tetracycline – HCl, the only antibiotic registered for the PREVENTION of American foulbrood (AFB). Terramycin® is also registered for control of European foulbrood (EFB). Terramycin® is often called TM for short.
> 
> ...


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## wcubed (Aug 24, 2008)

Framed asked what happened. As the OP, I can report what happened here.

The answers were mixed. From use the wooden ware/comb without concern to different ways to treat it, or destroy it. Some responses were apparently directed to AFB, not EFB.

Harold elected to try to salvage the woodenware by treating with Terra and continue use of the hive parts on those that recovered. Total damage:
Lost 3 colonies to the disease. Those hive parts in a freezer.
3 colonies showed no EFB effects and went on to build nice stacks, checkerboarded, and yielded about 150 lbs. average.
The remainder, infected, (5 ?) are headed into winter looking in average condition. They needed some feeding in the early fall and they got it. Severely infected with multiple frames of diseased brood in March/April, it took them all summer to get back close to normal.

The jury is still out. Harold will be using the hive parts come spring. We will have to wait out next season to see if the disease comes back from those that recovered when treated.

Note: Although it took 2 weeks, we did get confirmation from Beltsville that we had EFB.

Walt


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## wcubed (Aug 24, 2008)

Update as of May, 2015:
Harold reported a few days ago that the EFB is back in the home yard. I didn't get the details but he said it was not as bad as last year and he has already treated with terra. Will get more detail this weekend.
Walt


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## rsjohnson2u (Apr 23, 2012)

Walt, Any additional update on the reoccurrence of EFB?
I realize your OP was last year, and this is an old thread, but will add my 2 cents. I had EFB last season from a purchased spilt. Requeened three times, fed syrup, and treated with OTC in powdered sugar. The colonies survived, but languished all season. The EFB reappeared this March during spring build up, and both colonies perished. 
To your original question: stored dry drawn comb, and capped honey from LAST year's infected colony were given to three packages mid April of this season. All three packages showed EFB by the second brood cycle. I'm convinced though not spore forming, the bacteria will survive in capped honey and comb wax.
I hear and read over and over how efb doesn't survive outside the bees or infected larvae, but that is not my experience.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

I have been steam melting my three or four EFB deadout combs. Two or more hives got over it and are producing.


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## rsjohnson2u (Apr 23, 2012)

Thanks odfrank.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

I should have said I have melting the combs from three or four EFB DEADOUT HIVES, not combs. So a total of 30-40 combs total. I am not yet seeing more EFB.


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## rsjohnson2u (Apr 23, 2012)

I've been resisting melting because as a new beekeeper, 30-40 frames of brood comb is a big hit. After reading some are treating with acetic acid fumigation or chlorine baths and still having a problem with reused comb, I've decided to melt the wax. Does the steam sterilize the frames as well?


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## wcubed (Aug 24, 2008)

You are right. I didn't get back after I got some details. Been busy.
All but 1 of 5 in the home yard showed infection early in the build up. All 5 were infected last season and struggled through the season. It seems strange that one is acting like a CBed colony and is stacked up with supers in the midst of the squatty others. Harold caught it early and treated promptly. Says the symptoms have gone away, but they don't seem to be growing. Expansion period is past.

One of the two in the "back 40" came down with EFB this season. They showed no effects last season and we have posted a picture here on beesource of them stacked up with 10 or 11 supers last season. They are about a quarter mile away from the home yard and one has EFB this year. So we have both cases - a recovery and new one in separate locations. Am I the only one puzzled by that?

Walt


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## rsjohnson2u (Apr 23, 2012)

No Walt, you're not alone.
I'm pretty green at all of this, but EFB is not what the long-timers around me remember. I've had difficulty convincing them I infected additional hives by the transfer of comb and honey. They believe it's in the infected larvae and the nurse bees mouths (and the queen fed by the attendants). The "requeen and a honey flow clears it up" mentality isn't cutting it these days. I'm convinced it's morphed into something else. Maybe antibiotic resistant? Barry has stated it helps to pull the worse frames to give the bees a better chance, rather than just trashing the colony.
I read a hive tool may transfer bacteria as well. I've said before, a "clean" strong colony became infected robbing a hive that died in the two weeks between inspections this spring-it's in the comb and honey for sure.
I worry about something you said, as it applies to my location. Our main flow is days away, and any significant build up of infected or languishing colonies moving forward now seems unlikely.
Drift is supposedly a culprit as well, but I wonder, how many drifting drones or foragers does it really take to transfer enough bacteria to infect a colony. 
Also, I transferred a frame of brood from a colony that had yet to show signs (no spotty pattern, no discolored larvae)of infection, only to have the gifted colony become infected. 
Just last spring, I was getting advice on here to transfer infected frames to stronger colonies to "clean it up". That resulted in a second infected colony, of course. Both the original infected colony (that came into my apiary as a purchased split) and the second infected one, survived winter after treatment last season, only to die this spring (March).


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## backwoods (Apr 28, 2015)

Here's my wife and I's first experience in beekeeping.

www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?311665-How-does-this-look

So we burned the new hive, from base to lid. Including 10 frames from a new unoccupied hive sitting next to the infected hive. It was airing out new paint and waiting to be used one day. We bleached (approx 20% bleach) the base, box, inner and top lid of this new.

Now we have 2 10 frame deeps airing out from new paint on one and bleach on the other while we wait for 2 nucs to get strong enough to put in these 2 hives.

We are hoping for a better restart. It has been a very disheartening first venture into beekeeping to say the least.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

I am also thinking there is a new strain, and it came out of CA. Stronger more persistent. If you look at all the old treads about 5+ years ago they were seeing a lot of EFB in almonds. Some bees could not leave until it cleared up (which we know does not mean it's gone) I saw a YouTube video showing commercial beek in CA thinks that all of a sudden they had a bunch of bad queens in hives side by side because they had spotty brood. They since made it private video, I bet cause they realized they're no too smart about their EFB problem.

I am testing; spraying empty EFB comb with otc water mist (200mg per quart) and so far so good. 
Last year I had a hive that was not responding to OTC dusting very well, it would come back after OTC stopped. I took all the frames and misted each side with otc water; empty cells, open, capped brood, bees and the bee left in the box. (about 4 mists with a spay bottle per side) That took care of it. It made it through winter and is thriving. I have not replaced the queen in this hive yet, if it comes back I will. 

Another vector; feral hives in your area, they could be strong enough to live with it, but the small swarms they send out several time a year may crash and be open to robbing. If you have it in your area it may take some time for it to disappear. If you put your bees in new equipment it's possible they could catch it from you area again. Very discouraging I know. 

There are queen that are resistant to it, treat and requeen with those genes, seems to be working.

Just saw a post here a new beek put their package in a dead out from last fall and now it looks like they have bad spotty brood. Another possible vector.

I think this is in limited areas now but I see it spread with more and more suspected cases here on beesource, I suspect we will see a lot more before it's done. 

rsjohnson2u you said you requeen several time where did you get the queen from.

I read somewhere that EFB is bad on one coast of Australia but not a problem on the other coast. Anyone have any idea why?
One idea I was pondering about the PH of syrup and or nectar. Is there a more acidic nectar on one coast than the other?


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## rsjohnson2u (Apr 23, 2012)

Requeened with a Strachan (California) Carniolan- failed to clear it up, a "local" Italian cross off Craigslist-was balled immeadiately and killed, a store bought Italian (California origin, don't know the breeder), and finally, a local Carniolan from a queen breeder.
Spent nearly a $100.00 in queens trying to save this hive-never again!


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## backwoods (Apr 28, 2015)

LOL. I burned $120 worth of equipment because of a very small swarm that the 2 people I talked to should have told me to leave them on the tree limb. But being a noobie I saw free bees. Never again will I catch such a small swarm, if I ever catch a swarm at all. I have since learned there's a reason the swarm was so small. There's nothing like learning the hard way.


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