# Box joint machine??



## Barry Digman (May 21, 2003)

Is there such a thing as a box joint cutting machine that's set up with multiple cutters so the cut only requires a single pass to cut all the joints at once?


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

I am not aware of one, but it is sure a
conceivable idea. I worked at a mill work
for 5 years back in the 70's making and
running cabinet parts (styles and tenons
for the most part.)

One of the most "awesome" was the gang rip
saw. The arbor supported several 16" blades
and was usually set up with 12 or so. I can
imagine a smaller version with dados. You'd
have to have some HP behind it though.


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

Sure is coyote. The one I've seen is as big as a small car... or as small as a big car. Literally, it was the size of a large couch. I'm thinking of the unit that Humble Abodes uses. Looks like it was built about 1910 and weighed about a half a ton. If I recall properly, which is suspect, they'd feed in a whole stack of boards clamped tightly together at one time and cut the fingers on one end in one pass, then they'd turn the boards around and do the other ends.


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## Barry Digman (May 21, 2003)

I was googling the wrong terms. Here's one. There have to be other models that are not so industrial. I think. They call them "haunchers". 

http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base_images/zp/machinery_for_cutting_box_joints.jpg


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

There you go. That's a much newer model than what I've seen though the principle is the same- moving blades, stationary wood.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Bill Mraz, in Middlebury Vermont made one. Shaft has several stackable dado setups, spaced properly for box joint spacing. Place board on table, step on treddle, cutters rise up and make cuts. Very slick. If i had that machine, I'd probably make finger joints, and not rabbetted joints.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Fellow here just got a new one in, he will cut 800 boxes a day, from board to stacks on pallets.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

In my mind I'm seeing a couple of used old
vintage arbors (well built and $25 on ebay)
modified to hold 7 stacked dadoes mounted
on a removable shaft. 2 pulleys on each end
driven by a 3 to 5 hp 220V motor. Hmmmmmmm


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## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

if I'm not mistaken, Ross, who posts here, sells vintage woodworking stuff
you ought to talk to him
It doesn't seem like it would be to hard to build one if you're "handy"









Dave


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Where's Red Green when you need him??

http://cgi.ebay.com/Craftsman-10-Table-Saw-Arbor-Trunion-Assy-315-22-LOOK_W0QQitemZ190078506396QQihZ009QQcategoryZ20789QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Craftsman-Sears-Table-Saw-Arbor-Trunnion-1952_W0QQitemZ260080805694QQihZ016QQcategoryZ20789QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/NO-50-TAPER-TOOL-HOLDER-ARBOR-1-1-4-X-18-SAW-CUTTER_W0QQitemZ200075926158QQihZ010QQcategoryZ109681QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


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## Barry Digman (May 21, 2003)

I've got one of these old Craftsman saws. It was working when I bought it, it's now disassembled. The thing was too heavy for one person to move safely on and off of a pickup so I took it apart. It has really heavy parts. 

http://www.owwm.com/PhotoIndex/detail.asp?id=393


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

I hear you Coyote, I just finished assembling
my 1948 with cast iron extensions. Man it
is extremely heavy.


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## Ishi (Sep 27, 2005)

Most box joint cutters use carbide cutters 1 inch wide.


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## BerkeyDavid (Jan 29, 2004)

Nice pic Coyote, thanks. I tried to buy a shop full of old iron a couple of years ago. One of the neatest machines was a tenoner. Wow could it rip off a tenon! Pretty amazing the ingenuity and quality of those old machines, although that picture looks pretty new.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

That is a dandy saw Coyote!! I am envious.


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## Barry Digman (May 21, 2003)

Careful now. That photo is from the old woodworking machines website. It's the same model as mine, but that's not mine. The one I have is complete but in pieces, and it doesn't have the casters. When I bought mine, I thought someone had cobbled the on/off switches together, but I found out that's actually the way they were built.

p.s. Here's the link to the page that has hundreds and hundreds of pictures of old woodworking machinery. 
http://www.owwm.com/PhotoIndex/byMfg-list.asp

[ February 05, 2007, 09:47 PM: Message edited by: coyote ]


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

I understand coyote, I've used that site to
view my old iron. Your's will look like the
pictured one in no time. What a dandy unit.


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## BerkeyDavid (Jan 29, 2004)

coyote, you're gonna make some serious chips with that thing!

Yeah I love "old arn" - I used to lurk over there at OWWM.


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## Barry Digman (May 21, 2003)

PM'd Sundance with this story, which I'll share.
I got a call yesterday to go look at a piece of property and give the owner an estimate on it's value. He's 91, and worked as a cabinetmaker and woodworker here for decades. He's selling his home/shop and moving somewhere warmer. The shop was full of hand and power tools, everything from fine chisels to planers and jointers. It was one of those gems you only run across once or twice in your lifetime. Ethics prohibit me from trying to buy a clients stuff, so I could only look. Later in the day I found out that he'd sold all the equipment and tools to one fellow at a real bargain price. It was like looking at a museum.


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## Atlas (Jan 31, 2007)

Hi coyote,
There is another method for cutting joints if your interested. Something that I am going to try is a dovetail jig for a router. Dovetails are actually mechanically superior to box or finger joints because of the dovetail's tensile strength. I think that the dovetail joint has not been used more for hive production because only within the last few decades did they become easy to do. 
Porter-Cable makes a jig that can cut both dovetails and box joints. 
Here:
http://www.coastaltool.com/cgi-bin/welcome.pl?ref=froogle+page=/a/port/4212.htm

pretty cool huh? Thats for less than $150. The router bits can get a bit on the expensive side but I think that kit comes with them. Anyways I though I would share this in case you were interested.


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## Alex Cantacuzene (May 29, 2003)

Hi Atlas, 
The dove tail corners that I have been using with no nails or screws, just good glue, have been holding up great! I use a very cheap, old, Craftsman jig with either a 1/4" collet or 1/2" collet router. I also make sure that the cutter has two blades. What I like is the fact that each cut makes a complete corner of a box. The other thing is that I don't have to worry about leaving extra material to trim a possible error with finger joints. Initial Set-up precision is critical though for dove tails and I use a square checking my clamping. Oh, well, that's just me. Take care and have fun.


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## Atlas (Jan 31, 2007)

Alex,
Thanks for the encouraging words. I'm glad that some one else saw this improvement before me "all is not lost"  . I think it will be a while before the industry changes over, but for now it's just me and you.


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## bumble-b (Aug 16, 2010)

Hello, yes there is such a machine, it's made by Wadkin a woodworking machine manufacturer in the U.K. 
I used to run a Bee Farm in the 70/80's and we had one in our woodwork shop. It could take boards up to 18inches wide, and had cutters with spacers to make the comb joints.
Hope that helps.


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## dgl1948 (Oct 5, 2005)

A year or two ago there was a fellow on here who was a mechanical engineer and had made a machine for cutting box joint on a commercial scale. He had a link to it on youtube. If you do a search it should come up.


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## HEV261 (Jan 2, 2010)

Hi maybe some one will still read this . I found what they are looking for here in 2014 is made bya man in Oh. got a video on youtube google John Rohrer has a video on youtube i have his phone number i order on yesterday


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## Knisely (Oct 26, 2013)

HEV 261, please let us know if it is as dandy as the YouTube video makes it seem:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSLbZ22So1A


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## HEV261 (Jan 2, 2010)

Will do pick it up next wkend driving to oh to get it shipping to me at home cost about 500 bucks


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

I'd "test fire" that unit before laying out the $$$$


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## LizardKing (Feb 12, 2014)

Check out a lock miter joint.
No exposed end grain, cheap and easy to do, holds the 90 degree corners naturally,
cost under $100, and WORKS WELL!

If I was a commercial guy making my own woodwork that is what I'd use.....


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## HEV261 (Jan 2, 2010)

he shows in the video as plain as day it works


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

HEV261.... Actually what the video shows is that it makes cuts in pieces of wood. 

There is a lot more to making bee boxes than just making a box joint. For instance, the joints must line up. There has to be an overlap on the long side. How much blowout is there on the 2d cut, (the one made after the rotation of the wood). How much maintenance is required. How difficult is it to sharpen or replace one or more dados. What is expected life of the dados and the motor.

The unit looks great, but, I too would want to "test fire" it before purchase. 

cchoganjr


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## JLR (Apr 12, 2014)

That machine has very low maintenance 2 main bearings to grease like any other machine. The motor is a Leeson industrial motor. The cutters are carbide so no need to remove blades and sharpen. If you break a tip you put a new carbide piece on it that cost $3.50.Machine cuts the short stub to fit into the dado cut for your frames. A customer from Idaho just cut 16000 cuts with machine for 2000 boxes with no problems.


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

How much does it cost? The only thing I didn't like in the short video was the bend in his back. The machine would be easier to operate if it was a foot taller. What I really like was how safe it looked. His fingers were a long way from the blades.


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

Thanks for answering so quickly. If it works that well I can see it being a game changer in the bee box industry. Good work. :thumbsup:


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## Kamon A. Reynolds (Apr 15, 2012)

Michael Palmer said:


> Bill Mraz, in Middlebury Vermont made one. Shaft has several stackable dado setups, spaced properly for box joint spacing. Place board on table, step on treddle, cutters rise up and make cuts. Very slick. If i had that machine, I'd probably make finger joints, and not rabbetted joints.


How many years are you getting out of your rabbit joint boxes Michael?


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

JLR... Sounds good, and I agree, if it performs like that, it will be a game changer in making boxes.

Nice looking machine.

Is this the same machine that is demonstrated on U-Tube by Justin Cheeseman. The video and the machine looks identical. If you want to see the Cheeseman video, just search Justin Cheeseman and it will come up. If I can, I will attach a link to it.

Radar... Help me out. I am not able to post a link to his video of the machine.

cchoganjr


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