# fed my bees and now I'm concerned



## onemean (Nov 26, 2017)

I made my bees so fondant yesterday and opened the hive to place it in . I was surprised to see no bees in the top box of the hive. Could they all be in the lower box? I opened it again later in the day and saw a few bees but not many. I was concerned they didn't have enough to eat so I added the fondant. I couldn't hear any bees in the lower box. I saw a ton of bees last week when it was 60 degrees. It's been around 25 at night and 40 during the day. The hive is protected with a burlap wall to stop the wind and insulated with straw on three sides. Also should I install a mouse guard?

thanks so much in advance.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

welcome to beesource onemean!

at those chilly temps it's likely that the colony is fairly tightly clustered, perhaps in the bottom box or perhaps straddling the gap between the two boxes but to far down to easily see from the top.

i use a stethoscope to listen for the roar of the cluster in the hive when the temp is too cold to break the hive apart. i used to knock on the hive to make the roar louder but don't anymore after learning the cluster looses a lot of heat when you do that.

is your top box pretty full of honey?


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Welcome to Beesource. 
Impossible to give an opinion without more information. Lots of possibilities. 
When did you last open and fully inspect the hive? How much honey stores were in it? They may be in the bottom box if the top box is full of honey. Or…they may be gone if they were heavily parasitized by varroa. There have been a number of posts recently about ‘disappearing bees’. Did you test or treat for mites?


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

If the hive is going to be outside all winter put the mouse guard on, no matter what.

As far as the bees, yes they could be in the lower box. Or the bees you saw in the top box and coming and going last week are robbers.
You'll have to look to see if there is a cluster of bees lower in the hive, not just some stray bees.
Do you know if there are any stores in the hive? 

Winter weather is not as big an issue for us most years. With the exception of a insulated hive top (stops condensation and dripping water on the bees), facing a southerly direction in some sun, the mouse guard and you're good to go in 9 of 10 winters.
Good luck. Where on LI?


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## Hedghawg (Apr 25, 2016)

I don't know what you have now for a hive entrance but I would put on the mouse guard or in the least reduce the entrance down to the smallest of openings. I checked on a friends 2 deadouts last week to get them ready for the spring and there were mice in one of them. I check my hive every day and am able to look up into it as long as the ground is dry. I'm always worried too if I don't see a bee or several around the opening when it's the least bit sunny even.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

Remove the cover and shoot a few puffs of smoke down into the boxes. If there is a cluster below you will hear a definite low roar of bees. If not, might be time to take the hive apart.


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## onemean (Nov 26, 2017)

First off, thanks so much for the responses! I'm in Eastern LI (Westhampton). I last opened the hive a month ago to have my son(he's an entomologist) check for mites. Bees are not his specialty so he knows a good bit but is not an expert. The top box was about 50 percent full of honey. I did not take any honey from the hive.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

onemean said:


> First off, thanks so much for the responses! I'm in Eastern LI (Westhampton). I last opened the hive a month ago to have my son(he's an entomologist) check for mites. Bees are not his specialty so he knows a good bit but is not an expert. The top box was about 50 percent full of honey. I did not take any honey from the hive.


If you want to find out if your bees are alive and if they have stores for winter you'll have to investigate further. The nice weather coming will be a good time. One inspection will answer both questions.

Our bees have mites, how many and how much damage they are causing are the questions.

The warm fall weather has had our bees flying on most days and consuming stores. They are lighter now, some very light.
It has also allowed for stronger colonies to find and ambush weaker colonies. Now is when we find robbed out hives.

Most of my hives are on the N Fork, the rest are along the S Shore a bit west of you.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

it is not possible to check for mites by just a visual inspection of the bees. there are several methods for determining the mite infestation level. the best way is to wash a sample of bees with alcohol or ether. less reliable methods include dusting the mites off a sample of bees with powdered sugar, or counting mites that drop onto a sticky board through a screened bottom.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

onemean said:


> Bees are not his specialty so he knows a good bit but is not an expert.


I have a friend with a PhD in math. He could run differential equations all day long but I wouldn't trust him with an ez tax form.


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## Dan the bee guy (Jun 18, 2015)

Well I think it to late for your hive but if you're serous about having bees take time this winter to learn as much as you can. Subscribe to a bee magazine I read American Bee Journal cover to cover.


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## onemean (Nov 26, 2017)

60 degree weather is predicted for Wednesday so I will open the bottom box to see what's going on.


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## onemean (Nov 26, 2017)

hopefully this picture works.

this picture was late august or early September.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

onemean said:


> 60 degree weather is predicted for Wednesday so I will open the bottom box to see what's going on.


That will be a good day to see what's going on. 
Put the mouse guard on no matter what you find. If the bees are goners clean out as many as you can without destroying the comb and put things back together for winter. The equipment will be fine left where it is w/ mouse guard installed.
If the bees are clustered in the lower box you'll have to make a judgement as to whether there are enough bees to have a chance regulating the cluster temp. through winter, and if there is enough food in there for them. You want 60lbs of stores for them to get to spring in March. Stack the food in there (sugar or fondant) if they are light and check them regularly, 5lbs of stores will only last a few
weeks so they can run out and starve quickly.
A treatment now for mites is not a bad idea, look into it if you think they have a chance to survive the winter.
Not much you can do now if the population is small. 
Report back with what you find.


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## onemean (Nov 26, 2017)

I didn't get around to the hive till noon. By then it over 60 degrees and there were bees everywhere! I took of the cover and there were a ton of them feeding on the fondant I made. I bought 10 additional pounds of food yesterday with the bee guard and removed an empty frame replacing it with food in the top box. I didn't open the bottom to check my honey reserves as they were pouring out and seemed agitated. The top box felt light so I will continue to feed throughout the winter. I really don't like the design of the mouse guard as it takes the bees forever to enter /exit the hive but understand its importance. thanks again for all the advise!


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

onemean said:


> By then it over 60 degrees and there were bees everywhere! I took of the cover and there were a ton of them feeding on the fondant I made....... I didn't open the bottom to check my honey reserves as they were pouring out and seemed agitated.


Uh oh!


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

beemandan said:


> Uh oh!


are you thinking maybe some robbing going on dan?


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## Dan the bee guy (Jun 18, 2015)

beemandan said:


> Uh oh!


You think it's a robbing frenzy


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

I'd say the chances are very good it is.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

It surely sounds like robbing to me.


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## onemean (Nov 26, 2017)

Why do you suspect robbers? If they are, can they be stopped?


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Duplicate.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

onemean said:


> Why do you suspect robbers? If they are, can they be stopped?


Hive with little bee activity suddenly becomes a hive full of bees, all eating your fondant? Want proof? Sceen off the entrance at night. Come back the next day to see how many bees are trying to get in. Hint, they won't be from that hive. Something else to look for, how many of those bees are bringing in pollen? 
A weak hive getting robbed out is probably done for at this time of year. You might try moving the hive to another location but you need to determine if it even worthwhile at this point.


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## Dan the bee guy (Jun 18, 2015)

Just put your ear to the bottom box tonight no buz no bees


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

onemean said:


> there were bees everywhere! ….. there were a ton of them feeding on the fondant I made. ……they were pouring out and seemed agitated.


These phrases are not consistent with a small cluster of bees.
They are classic descriptions of a robbing event. 
Robbing without fighting at the entrance is a very bad sign.
I ain’t gonna sugar coat it. I suspect that the only bees in that hive are the robbers.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

> Why do you suspect robbers? If they are, can they be stopped?


>The behavior of the bees you described indicate robbers not resident bees. 
>Maybe but probably not.

Locally this is the time of year that the overlooked late summer/early fall ailments of the hive manifest themselves. Queenless hives peter out now, hives with high mite loads dead or near dead now, virus loads become insurmountable, colonies low on stores have begun to run out and starve, weak colonies get overtaken by the stronger ones constant robbing attempts all fall long, ditto for the wasp and hornet pressure.
Fall (Thanksgiving-Xmas) and spring (March) loses are common.

It's 35* this morning, pop the top and look in. Chances are you won't find a live bee in there.


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