# Duragilt Foundation??



## mlewis48 (Nov 24, 2007)

Hello everyone,
I am getting prepared for some packages that will be here soon and looking at all of the choices for foundation, I came across Duragilt. Last year, I used the Pierco frames that came with the kits that I got. The bees did not like them at all. And the drought that we had, did not help the cause at all. I like the strength of Pierco but they can be expensive starting out. Using wood frames and the Duragilt foundation are a little cheaper. Have any of you used this type of foundation? Did you like it and was it worth the price? Any help would be nice. 
Thanks,
Marcus


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## peggjam (Mar 4, 2005)

If you wax coat your plastic foundation they accept it much better. I wouldn't use duragilt foundation if they gave it to me. It's absolutely junk, but that's just MHO.


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## mlewis48 (Nov 24, 2007)

Peg,
Is it that bad? I have a few frames of Pierco and some Pierco inserts left over from last year. I can try to find some wax and give it try. If you dont mind me asking, what about it don't you like? Anything to help would be great. 
Thanks,
Marcus


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## dorado (Jul 12, 2004)

I have had good results with pierco in my hives. They build new comb quickly in a good flow.


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## Flyman (Jun 11, 2007)

Tried Pierco frames last year in 5 hives. Took them all year to draw out about 3/4 of the frames in each hive. Replacing them this year with Dadant Medium Brood. The bees have already drawn out the ones I replaced. Never used Duragilt....paid attention to the guys on this site. Wish I had found the site before I bought the Pierco. Have a few cases of it if anybody is interested.

Tom


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## ScadsOBees (Oct 2, 2003)

Flyman,
I'll be happy to pay for shipping on those cases of pierco if you want to send them my way 

I'll use just about anything if I can get it for free, but I won't pay for duragilt...but then again I'm not going to pay for wax foundation anymore either...

-r


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## peggjam (Mar 4, 2005)

mlewis48 said:


> Peg,
> Is it that bad? I have a few frames of Pierco and some Pierco inserts left over from last year. I can try to find some wax and give it try. If you dont mind me asking, what about it don't you like? Anything to help would be great.
> Thanks,
> Marcus


Duraguilt has a plastic core, that once exposed, the bees will refuse to do anything with it.


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

On the lines of what Peggjam said......

I'll trade my duraguilt for a mother-in-law. Then we both will have a good preview of what life after death will be if we are evil. 
Duraguilt is very hard to get drawn, as they will use the wax from it to go other places. When they do, they will NEVER put it back on the areas it was cleared from.


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## janvanhamont (Mar 10, 2004)

Duragilt is the worst thing you can put in a beehive. Perhaps with a swarm it will get drawn out but if is not fully drawn out when a drought happens or when the bees go into the winter with partially drawn out duragilt the bees will remove the wax and never use it again. Instead a lot of burr comb will result.
Duragilt should be banned and anybody selling it is not worth doing business with.
In my opinion it is best to wax sheets with imbedded wires.
Janvanhamont


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## Tia (Nov 19, 2003)

When I bought out my teacher, most of the frames in the many, many boxes included in the sale were Duragilt. Since they were already drawn out when I came into possession of them, I don't know how difficult it was to get the girls to draw it, but at this stage, the wax is starting to come off the plastic so I'm slowly culling the Duragillt and replacing it with good old crimp wire foundation as the plastic begins to show and, as said above, the girls won't do anything with it..


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## dcross (Jan 20, 2003)

For those of you that like to tinker, if you have a patch of plastic showing on an otherwise nice frame, just slice it out with a razor or exacto knife. They'll fill it in nicely then.


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## jasontatro (Feb 6, 2008)

*So.....give it to me straight people.*

So...I will be starting 2 hives this year. When I purchased all my equipment, I ordered 60 sheets of Duragilt because as it states in the GloryBee catalog, it is "100% Beeswax". After reading all the trashing of Duragilt, I'm thinking I made a bad choice.

My question is.... do I ditch all of the Duragilt that I bought and buy new foundation or do I install it and run the risk that the bees don't like it and refuse to draw it out. If they refuse to draw it out, what will happen? Will the bees abandon the hive?

Thanks for the info.

Jason


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Straight . . . use the Duragilt. I've used plenty of it in the past with little problems. I don't use it anymore, but at this point, use what you have then use your experience to make an informed decision on your next order. 
The bees won't refuse to draw it out. They *may* not draw it out well, but if it is all they have and there is a flow on, I think they will do just fine.


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## peggjam (Mar 4, 2005)

Barry said:


> Straight . . . use the Duragilt. I've used plenty of it in the past with little problems. I don't use it anymore, but at this point, use what you have then use your experience to make an informed decision on your next order.
> The bees won't refuse to draw it out. They *may* not draw it out well, but if it is all they have and there is a flow on, I think they will do just fine.


I concur with Barry, if you already have it, use it. Just don't buy anymore of it.


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## Dick Allen (Sep 4, 2004)

It seems most beekeepers love to hate it. I've got some frames drawn nicely from duragilt somewhere in my hives. The foundation was given to me, so I gave it a try. It was drawn ok and the bees have continued using it. But, it's in the brood nests and I don't know anymore what hives have it among their regular foundation. I don't think I'd want to use it for honey supers though for the reasons previously given. But, I liked the idea from dcross about cutting out the exposed areas with an exacto knife for the bees to fill in.


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## jasontatro (Feb 6, 2008)

Thanks for the responses. Maybe I'll just use what I have to start the hives and then buy some new foundation for my honey supers. Any recommendations? When it comes to foundation, is it me, or is it a bit confusing?

Jason


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## peggjam (Mar 4, 2005)

If I use any foundation, it is 100% beeswax, cut into starter strips.


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## jasontatro (Feb 6, 2008)

This may be a silly question, but can Duragilt be used as starter strips?


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## Grant (Jun 12, 2004)

No, don't try and cut duragilt for starter strips. The plastic coating will flake off.

Use what duragilt you got as it is. Order new, unwired foundation to cut into strips.

Grant
Jackson, MO


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## jasontatro (Feb 6, 2008)

Thanks Grant. I haven't really done any research on using starter strips...but I like the idea.


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## mlewis48 (Nov 24, 2007)

I don't see a lot of love for the Duragilt foundation. That is for sure. I know from all of the on-line cataloges that I have looked at, not many have it for sale. Thanks for all of the input,it will help with the task at hand.
Thanks,
Marcus


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## jasontatro (Feb 6, 2008)

mlewis48 said:


> I know from all of the on-line cataloges that I have looked at, not many have it for sale.


Seriously? I haven't seen a supplier yet that doesn't carry it or sing it's praises.


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## Jeffrey Todd (Mar 17, 2006)

With due respect to a good guy like Grant, I have had good success using Duragilt as starter strips. I cut through it with very sharp shears to minimize wax flaking off. (warm conditions improve the successfulness). The bees have drawn the frames nicely.
That said, I only use the Duragilt because I have a bunch left over. I would go with either foundationless or plastic coated with beeswax.

Jeffrey


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## Aisha (May 2, 2007)

I inherited some Duragilt and the bees did some very "creative" comb building around it. 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/wellspring-hypnosis/1508147542/sizes/o/

One corner of that frame has the plastic exposed and they won't touch that corner. But that frame, however strange it was, held a *a lot* of honey.


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## WVbeekeeper (Jun 4, 2007)

mlewis48 said:


> Peg,
> Is it that bad? I have a few frames of Pierco and some Pierco inserts left over from last year. I can try to find some wax and give it try. If you dont mind me asking, what about it don't you like? Anything to help would be great.
> Thanks,
> Marcus


If you are still planning on coming down to get those nucs next month bring your Pierco inserts and we will dip them in some wax.


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## riverrat (Jun 3, 2006)

they should have named it durachit not duragilt. I would venture to guess that most the sales of this product is to new beekeeps. who dont know no better.


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## bigeddie (Feb 19, 2008)

I have used it in brood and supers with very little problem for a long time. I bought some equip.once and it was part of the deal, I just installed the last of it. It's easy to install,stays straight and is tough. Not my first choice,but for me not as hellish as most have portrayed.


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## mlewis48 (Nov 24, 2007)

Cass,
Yes we are planning on coming down for your nucs. I will bring a few frames to dip in wax, that would be great. Thanks,
Marcus


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## honeyman46408 (Feb 14, 2003)

Aisha said:


> I inherited some Duragilt and the bees did some very "creative" comb building around it.
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/wellspring-hypnosis/1508147542/sizes/o/
> 
> One corner of that frame has the plastic exposed and they won't touch that corner. But that frame, however strange it was, held a *a lot* of honey.





riverrat said:


> they should have named it durachit not duragilt. I would venture to guess that most the sales of this product is to new beekeeps. who dont know no better.



Aisha My bees do that on plastic sometimes too


rr I know guys with 30 to 50 years of experance tha would NOT use any thing else--ME put me in the dont like it list and I have never bought a sheet of it


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Duragilt

Advantages:

No wiring. 
Better acceptance than typical plastic.

Disadvantages:

The bees will never rebuild once it's down the plastic so you have to cull those combs out eventually.

5.4mm cell size.


I've used a lot of it. My bigger concern is the cell size.  Other than that, I'd use it if I had it.


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## BeekeeperBill (Mar 7, 2007)

I was googling duragilt fundation and ran across this thread. HAD to comment. I will agree, duragilt foundation is ABSOLUTELY TRASH. I hate to bash in public like this, but i got some this year, it looked fine, and after using my existing drawn comb on splits, used duragilt for the rest, swarms constantly. they wouldn't so much as put a drop of wax on it. Checked a hive today where it's been on there all summer, the entire medium looks like i touched it yesterday. 

Thanks for listening


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## Motown (Jun 17, 2009)

All natural baby! 

I started with Duragilt, after a month I moved on to crimp wire wax foundation, that was a huge improvement, then I started using small starter strips of left over crimp wire foundation. The bees accepted the starter strips the best.


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## phil c (Jan 21, 2007)

I'm in my 3rd year of using Duragilt, Havent had the problems that the others have stated at all. 
I have had very little problem with bees stripping wax off the plastic, maybe 2 or three frames. no problem at all with excecieve (sp) burr comb, or any creative comb builing.
I did have several supers this year that little or no comb was drawn on, but after previous years experience I am chalking that up to bad weather and a really poor flow this year.
I have tried pierco,(really poor drawout in a very good year) and wired wax (really nothing to say great or terrible about it) 
I'll keep using the Duragilt, Havent had any problems, and I really like that if I get a little to excited spinnin the extractor it's not gonna break.


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## honeydreams (Aug 10, 2009)

Duragilt = duraJunk I bought enough to do one med super and i also used black plastic foundation with bees wax on it so I put 5 frames of duragilt in five of black alternating every other one guess what the duracrap has wierd comb drawn out like comb mountains or the wax striped off the black plastic built out so nice. so in mho duragilt is crap.


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## beedeetee (Nov 27, 2004)

If I put duragilt in when there isn't a flow I can get some pretty bad looking frames or bare plastic. When I put it in during a flow I get some of the best frames that I have. They even draw across the communication holes sometimes. The only way I can tell most of my duragilt frames is by the metal strips on the edges that I can see a little of, or the "DG" that I write on the top of the bar with the year.

If you want to put a bunch of bare frames in your hive in early spring and leave them to be drawn, don't use duragilt. If you have Duragilt foundation and want some nice frames put it in your hive when the flow is going.

I admit to about giving up on Duragilt when it finally dawned on me that my nice ones were being drawn during the flow and at all other times I got junk. This can happen with wired wax though. I have many frames where they burrowed holes in the center of the foundation (out of boredom I guess) when I put that type of foundation in too early in the year.


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## Bens-Bees (Sep 18, 2008)

I haven't used duragilt yet, only plasticell, and I used to have similar problems with the plasticell until I learned to coat the foundation with a light coating of syrup (I spray it on with a spray-bottle). As soon as they finish licking up the syrup they draw out the frame just beautifully. The same concept might work equally well for duragilt.


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## SparksBee (Apr 1, 2011)

Hi,

What's the difference between Duragilt and wired? I have a local supplier which sells both plus the Pierco. Is the Duragilt the same thing as Rite-cell which came in my started kit from one of the big suppliers?

Jen
Maryland


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## honeyman46408 (Feb 14, 2003)

Duragilt is flat plastic with wax on it with cell inprint.
Wired is wax foundation with wires in it to help hold it in place.
"Pierco" "Rite-cell" are plastic foundation with cell inprint.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

Duragilt:

A sandwich of flat plastic between two thin sheets of beeswax, then the beeswax is embossed with cell base imprints (like beeswax foundation), the edges have a strip of metal crimped on to help hold the sheets flat and support their edges. It is not plastic foundation, it is not beeswax foundation, the plastic core is not rigid, hardly stiffer than a thick cellophane and with similar properties.

Plastic foundations, like Pierco, Plasticell, or RiteCell are entirely different than Duragilt. They are a thick, rigid plastic sheet, directly embossed with cell bases (like foundation), then they are usually coated with a thin layer of beeswax or more to increase acceptance by the bees.

Duragilt was the foundation that was used in my very first beehive (when I was ten). I soon learned about its construction, and about other types of foundation, I also learned to dislike it, for most of the reasons already mentioned in earlier posts. I never again purchased Duragilt foundation.


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## honeybeekeeper (Mar 3, 2010)

My first hive and first 10 frames had duragilt foundation! They built comb really fast and after 70-80% i added another hive body but this time i had the black pierco plastic wax coated from kelleys in clarkson ky cause the outter frames was smooth plastic...The beeswax was all chewed off! Anymore i used plasticell but sometimes they run out quick! I guess its that popular!


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## Ted Kretschmann (Feb 2, 2011)

All plastic foundations, whether they are duraguilt or hard plastic, do best when place on the hive during a flow. We have a lot of both in use. TK


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## Capricorn (Apr 20, 2009)

I choose duragilt for my first hive, as a beek with no experience. After getting a little bit of a footing I've decided to go foundationless. One thing I did wonder though, a few of my duragilt frames, where the bees stripped the wax off, I re-coated the plastic with wax, no cell imprints. I haven't been able to put these back in a hive yet. Has anyone else tried this?


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## SparksBee (Apr 1, 2011)

Thank you. 

I am beginning to wonder whether or not after the first year, I should go the comb honey route. I plan on being a small (2-3 hives) beek and since comb honey is unadulterated, I find it easier as well as "tastier".


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## mlewis48 (Nov 24, 2007)

No, I thought about trying that but was so disgusted with the product that I replaced any of it that was not drawn out. That was a lesson learned the hard way, let me tell you. Maybe some have had good luck with it but I did not and would not recommend it to anyone.


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## SparksBee (Apr 1, 2011)

It appears that the Duragilt is not on a lot of people's top ten list. Thank you.


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## baldwinbees (Mar 2, 2010)

dura-crap.....junk....waste of money...was given a couple pieces&glad I didn't WASTE my money


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## NCbeek (Mar 23, 2011)

I too used Duragilt when I started out. Tore a lot of it out after a year when the girls wouldn't touch it or stripped it of wax and then wouldn't touch it. If you put undrawn crimp wire next to undrawn Duragilt in a hive they will overbuild on the crimp to take up the space in between and not touch the duragilt. I will not use it again.


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