# Slovenian AZ Beehive



## Pamlar

I have been searching the website for plans on this particular hive and have had 
almost zero results. Found only one website from Slovenia and their arrticular plans left more questions than answers. Any infor on additional websites or plans for this particular hive would be sincerely appreciated. Thanks much...
pamlar


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## tommyt

Are you talking about this type or this person and his approach on Beekeeping

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?248434-beekeeper-beginner-from-Slovenia


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## Pamlar

Yes, that was the thread that made me start my unsuccessful search for plans that would be clear enough to build hives like that.


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## t0k

Best plans i could find
http://www.pcelinjak.hr/index.php/Kosnice/10-okvirna-a-konica.html
AZ beehive is difficult to build looking at plans
People here usually buy one and then copy it


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## Pamlar

t0k...thanks for the website. Yes, I see that it would be very difficult to make an AZ hive using these plans. Do you have a website that sells them? Thanks...


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## kbfarms

Would love to have one of the folks who bought one then built one post the plans. I've been unable to find a store i can purchase one of there hives from.


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## Tohya

Those don't look that hard to build. There are round rods about 1" up from the bottom that hold the frames up on the lowest level, and a pair of frame spacers on each end to maintain frame spacing. The suppers have about 3/8" space under the frames. It would probably be easiest to make the frames langstroth sized so you could put foundation in them. But they could be any size, with the rest to the hive sized to match the frames. There is a entrance for each floor, and a space to slide a queen excluder in. The front with the bee entrance is double walled with a dead air space.


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## Pamlar

Tohya;
My whole life, I have been able to build anything from wood or metal if I had plans clear enough for me to understand. But, for whatever reason, I am not able to clearly forge ahead on my own with just a verbal description or a set of "sketchy" plans that leave many questions open to the builder...I envy those that can. That is why I am looking for a set of good clear plans. I am in full agreement with you that langstroth dimensions could/should/would be beneficial in fabricating these AZ hives.
Pamlar


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## MichaBees

I got a quote from Bostjan Tovornik, member of this forum some time ago. He is a nice guy and will help out. The problem is that this hives are really expensive -my opinion. 
He will give you the plans for the bee house as well as the hive.


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## Pamlar

MichaBees;
Thats good news...Sounds just like what I'm looking for. Do you know how I could contact him?
Thanks 
Pamlar


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## MichaBees

Pamlar, this is the email I have used to contact him;

[email protected]

If you end up making some hives, I would consider buying one. 

Aurelio (leo) Paez
DBA MichaBees.


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## Mariner

Has anyone had any luck with obtaining an AŽ hive? I've been doing a bit of research and have found a lot of sources on Slovenian web sites, however I'm not sure anyone will ship to the US. Ideally a set of good plans would be helpful. I'm planning on making one if I cannot get one next winter....I can send links of the stuff I found just let me know.

http://www.bolha.com/cebelarstvo/az-panji-trietazni-oglas1277523218


http://www.logar-trade.si/p/Panj-10-satni--AŽ/8100&klasid=10601000


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## Ziva

Hi, I'm sorry about bumping an old thread on my first post, but I'm very curious about the AZ hive.

I've wanted one ever since I heard about them a couple years ago. Today I saw one for sale on eBay but I'm concerned about the listing saying it's made of "high quality spruce". Since it's made of spruce I'm guessing it's meant to be used ONLY inside a beehouse. I live in a very cool, wet climate (rain 10 months out of the year) so I don't think it would work outdoors? All my other hives are WRC, except one which is cypress.

Any opinions would be very much appreciated.


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## wildforager

Ziva, Paint it and it will be fine. Most U.S. bee boxes are made of pine. No big deal. Once you have it you'll have a template and any local woodworker can replicate it. Maybe you could use some red cedar. Thats pretty easy to get in your area. Maybe if you're lucky you could even find the lumber for nothing at the free store on Lopez Island.


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## Mariner

Take another look at the concept of the hive, im not sure they are really meant to be exposed or freestanding, my guess is that you would be far better off placing it under a shed or constructing a bee house. Just my take on it.


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## cerezha

Mariner said:


> Take another look at the concept of the hive..


 Search beesource - we just discussed this beehive in details a week ago. I believe, there were links for decent plans. I agree that design is very confusing and yes, it is my understanding that it should be part of the "beehouse", not stand alone hive.


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## Ziva

Thank you Mariner and cerezha-----that confirms what I thought about the hive not intended to be used freestanding. It needs a shelter.

Wildforager, yes, that was my intent to use it as a template to have more made. Western Red Cedar is easy to get here, but I'm on a different island (not on Lopez) and we don't have a "free wood store". Lucky Lopez Islanders! 

cerezha, I will search for the recent thread, I found 4 when I was searching yesterday but I missed the recent one. Will try again. 

Thanks again everyone.


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## Goran

Type "AŽ košnice" in google picture search and You'll see beehouse and how are transported, also there are 10 frame - standard. 11-12 frames "AŽ GROM". On a small place more hives, extremelly mobile.. But difficult to make and expensive.. Some says even You get all measures always something goes wrong, the best is buy one and copy-paste. And have a "fun" to assemble it.


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## Ziva

Goran, thank you for the information. Yes, I did buy the 10-frame AZ to use it to copy from and make more ( after I find someone to help me!). You are right, it will be "fun" trying to assemble it! 

(My family is from Filipovac but then they moved to Zagreb and then America before I was born).


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## Goran

Good luck and it's great hive, but need practice to work with it - to adapt operations to it. Here are more common 11-12 frame AŽ GROM. 
Also to make easier to work and less expensive and easier to assemble some people took the frame size of AŽ grom and make it as langstroth bodies.
They are great for overwintering, cluster is in one body always in contact with food and in good formation ( no "death space" as someone call it).
BUT there is no bad hive just a bad beekeeper.
I work with langstroth ( LR).

Regards.


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## Ziva

Thanks Goran! I'm really looking forward to working with the hive, but I won't be able to have a beehouse or shelter built before next spring. I'll need to learn-as-I-go for managing it. But a challenge is always good learning! I have 7 warrés and 1 Kenya TBH and they have different management techniques, so why not add another hive style into the mix?! It's always good to learn more about styles of beekeeping!


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## Goran

Type in Youtube " Pološka". If You like beehives - simple to make, frame size You want and by it make the "box". Some has 19, some 27 frames. For stationary, work with frame, not with box, also great overwintering. Someone call it recruitment center. Variations to work with it are numerous ( artificial swarms, two queen societies, as support colony for other hives, ect..). It's heavy hive. Yields as stationary are the same as other hives. Someone here says "hive for a soul". Some of them are decorated as small houses - cause that people love them ( also on youtube you can see them). I believe You call it at your place long hive.


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## Mr. C

Thanks for the tip on searches, these look a lot like the design I have drawn up for this winter! Hopefully I'll be able to pull a couple more ideas from some of the videos.


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## Goran

Glad to help.. Enjoy in your work.


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## Ziva

Yes, thanks for the youtube suggestion. I love that Pološka hive! I also like your description of it's management. Definitely going to add that to my "wish list" of hives to try! I'm going to see if I can find some sample plans for it. Are the top bars of the frames the same size as LR frames?

Edit: I meant just the top bars of the frame. I can see in the video that the frames are deeper than LR frames.


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## Goran

I have no personal experience with them. But I think on video is standard DB - dadant blat frame. But as I understood there are no standard at pološka ( various numbers of frames -19, 22,24,27..., size of frames 40-30, 40-34, 30-40..., entrances - only front or side).. But at one forum I read some of beekeepers experiences with them. But not on english.. Some of these hives goes from one generation to another ( inherited or so). I have no intention to work with them, cause already work with one type and have no time to make another type, maybe when I get older - who knows..


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## NW_Mark

Just found a listing on Ebay for 
Beekeeping Equipment National Slovenian AZ beehive 10-frames 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Beekeeping-...083?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f1ee0884b

seller is maisterdan


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## Ziva

NW_Mark said:


> Just found a listing on Ebay for
> Beekeeping Equipment National Slovenian AZ beehive 10-frames
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Beekeeping-...083?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f1ee0884b
> 
> seller is maisterdan


Yes, he's the one I bought my hive from. He seems like a very nice man. (That looks like a new listing, when I bough mine he had already sold 2 and had 8 left). Anyway, when I first saw the original listing I didn't have any money so I sent him a message and told him I wanted to buy one but had to wait until I had the money. He answered back and said no problem, and that he would pack one up for me and send it when I had the money. I bought one after I got paid and he sent it immediately. It arrived here on the island last Fri at the post office. I couldn't pick it up then and the PO is closed on the weekend. I'm dying to pick it up tomorrow but we have a storm coming in tonight so I'll have to wait until Tues. Can't wait to see it!!!!!


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## Goran

Don't die, just pick.
If you cannot find someone for advice to solve some problems in the season, let me know I'll ask people here who work with them how they usually resolve the problem.


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## Ziva

Goran said:


> Don't die, just pick.


Haha! I did pick the hive up last Tuesday........but I thought I'd die trying to get it on my truck! It weighs 28kg and 2 boys saw me struggling to get it down the stairs of the post office. They said, "Do you need help? If you can't even get it down the steps you'll never be able to put it in your truck!". So they helped me put it in the truck. Thank God!!




Goran said:


> If you cannot find someone for advice to solve some problems in the season, let me know I'll ask people here who work with them how they usually resolve the problem.


Thank you!!!! I love the hive and it looks beautiful(!) but I have 1,000 questions about how to work with it!! There is no one where I live who knows anything about it. I cannot put bees into it until I know how to manage it! Just opening it and taking everything out I can see that it's a very complicated hive. 

Let me know when I can start asking questions! I'll try to post some photos.......


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## cerezha

Could you guys ask/answer questions here? I would be interested to learn more about this beehive. Also, Ziva, could you post some pictures, so we have some idea? Many thanks, Sergey


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## Ziva

Sure cerezha! I plan to ask all my questions here. I have to run and catch a bus right now so I'll post some pictures this evening. (I don't have a laptop/tablet to use, can only post when I'm home at the PC).


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## Goran

Ehh.. I'll try give you correct answer when I can, cause also I am not in beekeeping so long, about 3 years. Cause of this I know why is important from beginning to start right. 
Also, I hope that some beekeepers who work with these hives will involve with the answers. After all they work with them. 
As for me first to see, that they are touchy when moving frames in-out, possible to hurt queen or kill some bees. But as I watched how the people inspect these hives all is in practice-routine ( experience).


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## cerezha

Ziva said:


> Sure cerezha! I plan to ask all my questions here. I have to run and catch a bus right now so I'll post some pictures this evening. (I don't have a laptop/tablet to use, can only post when I'm home at the PC).


 It would be great!


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## Ziva

Okay, I'll try to post some pictures. I don't have a camera except the one on my phone, so couldn't get some close-ups I would have liked to. I just opened a "flickr" account last summer, so I uploaded photos to there and now I'll see if the link will work. I added descriptions to each photo, hope those show up too  . Here's the link:

http://flic.kr/s/aHsjCZyEjh


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## Ziva

Goran said:


> Ehh.. I'll try give you correct answer when I can, cause also I am not in beekeeping so long, about 3 years. Cause of this I know why is important from beginning to start right.


Thank you! And I agree. 




Goran said:


> Also, I hope that some beekeepers who work with these hives will involve with the answers. After all they work with them.


I hope so too!



Goran said:


> As for me first to see, that they are touchy when moving frames in-out, possible to hurt queen or kill some bees. But as I watched how the people inspect these hives all is in practice-routine ( experience).


Yes, I noticed that immediately!! It was easy to get the frames into the metal frame spacers at the back (front bee entrance) but VERY difficult to match the spacers on the screen insert with the frames, when putting the screened insert back in. That's one of the MANY questions I have. I can't imagine how it's done with bees in the hive!!

I also have questions about the feeder, it seems so small! And how do you clean it? And 998 more questions!


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## Ziva

cerezha said:


> It would be great!


You're welcome!


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## cerezha

Ziva said:


> Okay, I'll try to post some pictures. I don't have a camera except the one on my phone, so couldn't get some close-ups I would have liked to....


 Look like a piece of art, but it is crazy!!! So many parts.... many thanks for sharing the pictures! So, am I right that sliding frames have no "guide" at the top and bottom for proper alignment? It looks like you just need to get frame into metal spacer at the end of the hive. Also, I do not understand the purpose of the curved tops and bottoms of the frames. Any idea?


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## Colleen O.

Ziva, I really enjoyed the detail pictures you shared! Thank you so much!! It will be interesting to hear what you think of the hive in use. I wonder if the curved tops and bottoms of the frames are for beespace from front to back or for the frames to slide easier on the bars or something similar.


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## Ziva

cerezha said:


> Look like a piece of art, but it is crazy!!! So many parts.... many thanks for sharing the pictures!


 You're welcome! It is a beautiful hive but......so complicated! That's why I have so many questions! But the AZ hive is older than the LR (Lang) hive, and Slovenian beekeepers have been using it for so long, so there must be a way to learn it, I hope!




cerezha said:


> So, am I right that sliding frames have no "guide" at the top and bottom for proper alignment? It looks like you just need to get frame into metal spacer at the end of the hive.


Yes, that's exactly right. And difficult! And that's without bees in it! I definitely think it needs some type of guide to align the frames. I'm spinning my brain trying to think of a solution!!!! 



cerezha said:


> Also, I do not understand the purpose of the curved tops and bottoms of the frames. Any idea?


I wondered that too. Is it for bee space? To keep the bees from propolizing the frames to the metal bars? I don't know. I did notice in Bostek's video he posted on another thread, http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...er-beginner-from-Slovenia&highlight=slovenian that his frames didn't look like they had curved tops/bottoms, so maybe it's not necessary? Also, his feeder looks different. His video shows him inspecting his AZ hive. He also used a wooden board of sorts before pulling the frames. I don't know if that helped with alignment or not?


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## cerezha

Ziva said:


> ... yes, that's exactly right. And difficult! And that's without bees in it! I definitely think it needs some type of guide to align the frames. I'm spinning my brain trying to think of a solution!!!!


 I guess: practice-practice-practice!


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## Ziva

Colleen O. said:


> Ziva, I really enjoyed the detail pictures you shared! Thank you so much!!


You're welcome! 


Colleen O. said:


> It will be interesting to hear what you think of the hive in use.


I'm interested too! But until I figure out how the hive works (like aligning frames, and a zillion other things) I can't put bees in! Also, it's not meant to be a free-standing hive. I don't have the money to build a beehouse/shed/shelter so it'll be a while. Wish I could start it in spring, but too much to figure out first.....and get the money to build a shelter.....





Colleen O. said:


> I wonder if the curved tops and bottoms of the frames are for beespace from front to back or for the frames to slide easier on the bars or something similar.


I would also like to know the purpose. Right now I'm just guessing! (like I wrote in the above post). One thing I can say for sure, the AZ hive gives a whole new meaning to the term, "steep learning curve"!!

Ah, the joys and challenges of beekeeping.........


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## Ziva

cerezha said:


> I guess: practice-practice-practice!


Yes, that's true, but right now I wish we had that "banging your head against a brick wall" emoticon!!!!


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## cerezha

Ziva said:


> Ah, the joys and challenges of beekeeping.........


 Come on! I am sure, you will figured everything out and we will be jealous watching (more pictures I guess) your busy bees in this beautiful hive. In fact, I already jealous! Unfortunately, I have no space for beehouse... and I am limited to 2 beehives total!


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## mmmooretx

I find the hive designs very interesting and the bee houses very creative and beautiful. While we do not get snow, maybe once every 4 years, in Houston I very much like the idea of not unstacking and re-stacking hive bodies very interesting. I cannot translate the designs and quite a few of the English translated sites are broken or are no longer active (or my companies filters do not let me go there).
I think I would lean towards the three "box" design but would be interested in the yearly maintenance timeline processes for the two box system using the queen excluder. I would be interested in knowing the dimensions of the frames, foundation, and what type of foundation is typically used. For example if using wax foundation is it all crush and strain or do they use extractors?
I did look at the eBay listing for the 2 "box" hive and thought the price was reasonable (beautiful workmanship), but the shipping is pretty high (almost doubles the hive cost). 
Also the feeders look pretty small which may mean two feedings a day during winter?
I am going back to the start of the thread to read again to see what I missed...
Thanks for sharing a very interesting method of beekeeping!


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## mmmooretx

Ziva said:


> Yes, he's the one I bought my hive from. He seems like a very nice man. (That looks like a new listing, when I bough mine he had already sold 2 and had 8 left). Anyway, when I first saw the original listing I didn't have any money so I sent him a message and told him I wanted to buy one but had to wait until I had the money. He answered back and said no problem, and that he would pack one up for me and send it when I had the money. I bought one after I got paid and he sent it immediately. It arrived here on the island last Fri at the post office. I couldn't pick it up then and the PO is closed on the weekend. I'm dying to pick it up tomorrow but we have a storm coming in tonight so I'll have to wait until Tues. Can't wait to see it!!!!!


Ziva,
If you do not mind answering what were the US Customs fees on top of the eBay listed shipping fees? Please keep us updated on your learning curve using this style of hive in the USA. I find this hive very interesting and would love to follow your progress.
Thank you!


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## Goran

Ziva said:


> You're welcome! It is a beautiful hive but......so complicated! That's why I have so many questions! But the AZ hive is older than the LR (Lang) hive, and Slovenian beekeepers have been using it for so long, so there must be a way to learn it, I hope!
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, that's exactly right. And difficult! And that's without bees in it! I definitely think it needs some type of guide to align the frames. I'm spinning my brain trying to think of a solution!!!!
> 
> 
> I wondered that too. Is it for bee space? To keep the bees from propolizing the frames to the metal bars? I don't know. I did notice in Bostek's video he posted on another thread, http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...er-beginner-from-Slovenia&highlight=slovenian that his frames didn't look like they had curved tops/bottoms, so maybe it's not necessary? Also, his feeder looks different. His video shows him inspecting his AZ hive. He also used a wooden board of sorts before pulling the frames. I don't know if that helped with alignment or not?


About curved tops and bottoms main thing is to avoid/ reduce killing of bees when taking and returning frames. Also some people wire wax foundation vertically and it could be then the problem. I spoke about frames today, one man says that for AŽ standard is enough 5 wires horizontally, for AŽ Grom which has some bigger frame needed 6 horizontal wires. I trust him, cause he is experienced beekeeper. 
Also to see something, you need 19 hives more to adequately manage and have proper result. So, buy/build 19 more and You'll get results -as he said. Also he prefer AŽ grom rather than AŽ standard. 
I remembered today that I had some literature about AŽ hives ( not in english), but I'll need some time to dig for it from somewhere, I don't know where exactly store it:scratch:. 

At the end one link I stumble upon it at one other forum which I'm also member about one slovenian beekeeper, some photos, texts ..
http://www.cebelarstvo-kozinc.com


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## Ziva

cerezha said:


> Come on! I am sure, you will figured everything out and we will be jealous watching (more pictures I guess) your busy bees in this beautiful hive. In fact, I already jealous! Unfortunately, I have no space for beehouse... and I am limited to 2 beehives total!


Don't be jealous! I live in a small apt/flat. Talk about no space!! Trust me, I understand! That's why I have a lot to figure out! My hives are located on a small farm and two others on a friend's property. But, I can't stand not being able to see the hives every day soooooo, I have a hive on my tiny balcony! Just barely enough room for the hive and a small chair. As far as a beehouse, it will definitely need to be built on a trailer/wheels and be put on a farm somewhere. It will be on wheels so I can move it if the farmer's decide they want me too. Building on wheels adds the cost of a trailer, so I really need to get creative to figure out how to do this since I'm very low income! I go without heat in the winter so I can save the money to buy bee stuff. I'm determined!!


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## cerezha

Ziva said:


> ... I have a hive on my tiny balcony! Just barely enough room for the hive and a small chair. ....


 Could you make a sort of box around AZ hive on your balcony? You do not need a whole beehouse. It may be just some space for thermoinsulation. Another completely weird idea - if you keep your room cold, you could place AZ beehive in the window (like window air conditioner) so the back is in the room (sort of adapter for the window needed). It is weird, but, actually, this is probably would be closest communication with the bees... In Russia, in winter, people in the villages used to have one room in the house without heating. They kept beehives in the room entrances facing outside wall. In the wall, they made a small holes connecting hive exits to outside (sort of tunnel). Sorry, I did not mean to make fun from your situation. I wish you success. Sergey


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## Ziva

mmmooretx said:


> I cannot translate the designs and quite a few of the English translated sites are broken or are no longer active (or my companies filters do not let me go there).


 I know, I have the same problem! Many (most) of the links I've seen are the same----broken or no longer active, so it's not just your filters. Frustrating! Not to mention lack of managing info available in English....



mmmooretx said:


> I think I would lean towards the three "box" design but would be interested in the yearly maintenance timeline processes for the two box system using the queen excluder. I would be interested in knowing the dimensions of the frames, foundation, and what type of foundation is typically used. For example if using wax foundation is it all crush and strain or do they use extractors?


 According to the beekeeper Goran spoke too, he prefers the Grom (11-12 frames) rather than the standard (10 frames) that I have. Goran also mentioned about wiring frames so that sounds like they use extractors. I have Warrés and a kTBH so I do crush and strain. With the AZ hive, I'll do what is recommended by AZ beeks. I measured the frame in the AZ hive and the dimensions are 410mm (16 1/8") wide and 263mm (10 3/8") deep. 




mmmooretx said:


> I did look at the eBay listing for the 2 "box" hive and thought the price was reasonable (beautiful workmanship), but the shipping is pretty high (almost doubles the hive cost).


 I know but they aren't available in the US so ordering from Slovenia was the only option. Although the shipping nearly doubled the hive cost, I thought it was reasonable considering the size and weight and shipping from half way around the world. And the shipping was fast too! The seller sent it immediately. He also has a listing for the UK and I noticed the shipping cost was ~the same!




mmmooretx said:


> Also the feeders look pretty small which may mean two feedings a day during winter?


 Yes, they are small, so that's another management technique I would like more info on! There are separate feeders, 1 for each chamber, but it still seems like daily feeding would be necessary during dearths/bad weather unless they have enough stores.




mmmooretx said:


> I am going back to the start of the thread to read again to see what I missed...
> Thanks for sharing a very interesting method of beekeeping!


 You're welcome! While you read through the thread you'll see where I posted a link to another thread posted by Bostek in Slovenia who has AZ hives. He posted a video showing him inspecting a hive.


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## Ziva

mmmooretx said:


> Ziva,
> If you do not mind answering what were the US Customs fees on top of the eBay listed shipping fees? Please keep us updated on your learning curve using this style of hive in the USA. I find this hive very interesting and would love to follow your progress.
> Thank you!


 There were no US Customs fees/taxes so I only paid the cost of the hive + shipping as listed on eBay. I did get a notice from PayPal that they'll charge me for currency conversion if the seller decides to take the money out of his PayPal account. But, so far I haven't been charged.

I will post my progress, but it will be slow since there are a lot of technicalities to figure out first!


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## Ziva

cerezha said:


> Could you make a sort of box around AZ hive on your balcony? You do not need a whole beehouse. It may be just some space for thermoinsulation. Another completely weird idea - if you keep your room cold, you could place AZ beehive in the window (like window air conditioner) so the back is in the room (sort of adapter for the window needed). It is weird, but, actually, this is probably would be closest communication with the bees...


 No, it isn't weird and I have thought of both. Unfortunately the balcony is too small since I already have a hive there. But, tomorrow when it's light out, I'll re-measure again and see if there's room if I remove the chair. There would also need to be enough space for me to work both hives. The balcony is off the kitchen/dining area. Except there's no room for "dining" (no table/chairs) because I have a macaw and an African Grey parrot and their cages take up all the space. There's a glass sliding door which I leave open during our short summer and the birds are literally right next to the hive!
http://i402.photobucket.com/albums/pp101/zeeva_daveed/Kitchenwithbirdsandbees.jpg

I've also considered putting the hive in the window in the living room, but again, not a lot of room there. When I'm putting hives together I build them in the bedroom (on the floor with a tarp)
http://i402.photobucket.com/albums/pp101/zeeva_daveed/Oooopsre-clampedbeforedrilling.jpg
But there's not much room since I also store bee equipment and honey buckets in there. So I move completed boxes/roofs/feeders/floors into the living room...
http://i402.photobucket.com/albums/pp101/zeeva_daveed/Finishedhiveboxes.jpg
During the season most of those boxes are in use, but when the hives are reduced for winter, they're stored back in my apt again. Needless to say, I don't have guests over because there's no room! I live in a beehouse! 


cerezha said:


> In Russia, in winter, people in the villages used to have one room in the house without heating. They kept beehives in the room entrances facing outside wall. In the wall, they made a small holes connecting hive exits to outside (sort of tunnel). Sorry, I did not mean to make fun from your situation. I wish you success. Sergey


 Wow! That would be great to have only one room without heat! It gets freezing in here when it snows! But I don't want the birds to freeze too, so I hang clear vinyl, floor to ceiling, around their cages forming a sort of 'tent' for them and then put a small heater inside their tent and keep them at 60F. I can't afford the electricity for more than that. Also, since I live in an apt. the land lord would not allow me to drill holes in the wall for a hive.....

No need to be sorry, I didn't think you were making fun of my situation at all. You were offering very good ideas! And who knows, one of them just might work!


----------



## Ziva

Goran said:


> About curved tops and bottoms main thing is to avoid/ reduce killing of bees when taking and returning frames.


 Ah, that makes sense! So the "bee space" guess was not too far off...



Goran said:


> Also some people wire wax foundation vertically and it could be then the problem. I spoke about frames today, one man says that for AŽ standard is enough 5 wires horizontally, for AŽ Grom which has some bigger frame needed 6 horizontal wires. I trust him, cause he is experienced beekeeper.


 Thank you for that information!



Goran said:


> Also to see something, you need 19 hives more to adequately manage and have proper result. So, buy/build 19 more and You'll get results -as he said.


 Wow, 20 AZ hives! I could never afford to buy more so they would have to be built. I'm not a wood worker, so I'd need to pay someone to build them. I can build Warré hives because they're easy, but the AZ is too complicated. That reminds me.....I bought the AZ hive to copy from it to build more from. So I won't be able to put bees in it until I have at least 1 more AZ hive built so I'll have 1 to copy from. I think it's best to see the actual hive (un-occupied) while copying instead of just plans.



Goran said:


> Also he prefer AŽ grom rather than AŽ standard.


 Did he say why he prefers the grom rather than the standard? Where I live, it rains 10 months out of the year, so we have a short summer and a short nectar flow. Actually, there's plenty of nectar sources but the rain washes away the nectar and/or it's too much rain for the bees to fly in. But I have Carniolans, so they do fly in lower temps and light rain. Last two years have been poor honey harvest, but this year we broke a record with 80 days of sun so had a honey harvest. 


Goran said:


> I remembered today that I had some literature about AŽ hives ( not in english), but I'll need some time to dig for it from somewhere, I don't know where exactly store it:scratch:.


 I know what that's like to not know where I put things!  But let me know if you ever find it and can share some information. I really appreciate all your help!



Goran said:


> At the end one link I stumble upon it at one other forum which I'm also member about one slovenian beekeeper, some photos, texts ..
> http://www.cebelarstvo-kozinc.com


Thank you!


----------



## Goran

Well, when You are so willing to succeed it would be sin not to try to help You. I will search for literature, bother again beekeepers about it, and try to give You right informations to don't wonder around. But I'll need couple of days.
Yes they go in extractor ( as same which is used for langstroth or dadant frames), in fact in AŽ are all carniolans, we do not want some other, mine are also carniolans ( in langstroth hive). Overwintering excellent, spring buildup explosive, etc., etc.
The rest I will try to tell next time.


----------



## mmmooretx

Ziva,
Thank you so much for answering all of my queries, I do appreciate your time and support. I can see from your pictures you are very determined and I wish you the best of luck. Please keep us posted on your progress.


----------



## Mr. C

I'll check again when I get home, but I think I have some links to some beehouse websites at home. I watched a YouTube video of a guy working one of the hives in the beehouse. It appeared to me that he had round frame guides that the frames slid on and the curved top and bottom where to slide on those guides. I think being round helped them slide easier and kept them from getting stuck with propolis, but I could be wrong. I'll double check at home, couldn't open your photos here so I'll check back in.


----------



## Ziva

Thank you everyone for your kind words and support. It helps a lot!

Does anyone have any idea, from looking at the hive photos, how much it would cost to have one built? I've asked several people here and can't get a straight answer. They all say they'd need to build one first before they can answer. I can't commit to having more built without knowing in advance what the cost would be!

It looks like the front is made from 1 X 4s joined together, and the top/sides/bottom are all one piece also 1" (actually ~3/4").

Thanks for any suggestions!


----------



## Mr. C

So I couldn't find the video again, but I did find a website I checked out earlier on be houses. It has some similar hive types, only taller.
http://brookfieldfarmhoney.wordpres...from-eastern-europe-to-oak-harbor-washington/ 
Anyway it appears I was totally wrong about the curved frames, the ones I found had setups similar to yours with the metal poles running perpendicular to the frames to support them as they are slid in. The only thing I can think is it either helps keep them from building comb on the bottom or maybe helps keep you from rolling bees that are walking on the bottom as you drag a frame out over the supports, but your guess is as good as mine there.


----------



## Goran

Just a little more about curved parts, that also divert bees from building wax on top, ease the movement for bees on top, and as said previously protect the bees when you lift up the frame. 
For AŽ grom – it has 2cm higher frame than standard, and as this beekeeper said it means a lot when 2cm more of honey is above their head, and better formation. For overwintering they remain in one box, and I think better than in a langstroth. And when acacia flow is OK, they easily fill the honey box with 30kg of honey. AŽ grom with 11+11 frames (brood and honey box above) is most common at my place, and people who has them won't change a bit on it.

Also I remembered You'll need holder for frames with spacings on it when inspecting a hive „kozlić“ ( link with a picture of it „ http://www.budija-sp.si/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=39&Itemid=32 “).

Also I found something interesting for maybe transfering bees from other hive types to your AŽ. Plastic holders that can be attached to AŽ frame and removed when returning to AŽ – „ http://www.rihar-kocjan.si/index.php?page=katalog/detail&id=16 „.

I'm searching for another book where is more detailed described work by months, but didn't found it yet.. 

For now, this much. I hope this would be helpful for You.

Forgot to tell, every day I go to work I pass through Filipovac.


----------



## mmmooretx

It would be wonderful if we could get some detailed plans for the 2 & 3 floor units so we could convert to American standard lumber sizes. For me the best might be something like a set of plans and hardware kits, which would save hugely on shipping costs. A nice bonus would be some expandable plans for the bee house too. Ah well dreams are cheap and reality is expensive....


----------



## cerezha

Ziva
What is the distance between frames center-to-center (from center of one frame to the center of another) and how wide the frame itself? Better in millimeters/cm since I assume the beehive itself is metric. Thanks!

I think, it is not necessary to reproduce the exact copy of the hive. There are some features, which made it unique:
- only front exposed to weather, thus - double insulation at the front;
- access to all frames simultaneously from the back;
- sliding frames;
- non-extendable design;
- beehive supposed to be the part of beehouse, thus, minimal insulation on the sides, air gap between backdoor and frames for thermoinsulation;
- screen at the back to observe the bees without disturbing.

Once these features implemented, the exact size is not such important. Many thanks Ziva for sharing all photos! Sergey


----------



## mmmooretx

ziva,
Just as kind of a follow up on the AZ hive you bought what kind of foundation does it look like should be used? I think I saw a grooved top and a couple of holes in the end bar, but did not see a picture of the bottom bar. Still curious on this aspect of the hive.
Thanks again in advance for all you have with us.


----------



## Ziva

Sorry for the delay answering. There were strong winds all weekend. Lost electricity early saturday morning. It came back on later, but winds were still strong and electricity flickering on/off, so I unplugged the computer......



Goran said:


> Just a little more about curved parts, that also divert bees from building wax on top, ease the movement for bees on top, and as said previously protect the bees when you lift up the frame.


Thank you! All good reasons why the frames are curved.



Goran said:


> For AŽ grom – it has 2cm higher frame than standard, and as this beekeeper said it means a lot when 2cm more of honey is above their head, and better formation. For overwintering they remain in one box, and I think better than in a langstroth. And when acacia flow is OK, they easily fill the honey box with 30kg of honey. AŽ grom with 11+11 frames (brood and honey box above) is most common at my place, and people who has them won't change a bit on it.


I understand now why the beekeeper you spoke with prefers the grom. But, I have the standard 10-frame, without the extra 2cm, so I'll just have to work with that. If I ever find anyone who can build an AŽ hive I may experiment with the grom. My climate is like Britain----the parts of Britain with the most wind/rain, and the bees seem to over winter better in smaller spaces, which is why I have mostly Warré hives. The 1 kTBH I have is on my balcony and completely sheltered from the wind and rain. It has done really well too (no doubt because it's sheltered). So I'm really looking forward to see how the AŽ hive does in a sheltered area (hopefully a beehouse!!)



Goran said:


> Also I remembered You'll need holder for frames with spacings on it when inspecting a hive „kozlić“ ( link with a picture of it „ http://www.budija-sp.si/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=39&Itemid=32 “).


Yay, something I can build!!  Thanks for the info!



Goran said:


> Also I found something interesting for maybe transfering bees from other hive types to your AŽ. Plastic holders that can be attached to AŽ frame and removed when returning to AŽ – „ http://www.rihar-kocjan.si/index.php?page=katalog/detail&id=16 „.


That looks like a good idea, but the AŽ frames don't fit any of my other hives. But one of the questions I had was how to get bees (from a package) into the AŽ hive? People here with LR hives just shake the package bees into the hive at the top. That's how I started my TBH, but in my Warrés I put a ramp at the entrance and let the bees walk in. I'm guessing that's how to put bees in the AŽ hive? Let them walk in? I don't know if bees can be shaken/poured into an AŽ hive, unless there is an adapter board.... 



Goran said:


> I'm searching for another book where is more detailed described work by months, but didn't found it yet..


I found this site with month-to-month work description, but I can't understand it very well because many of the words are mistranslated in English: http://translate.google.com/transla...p://www.cebelarstvo-kozinc.com/pod/stran3.htm 


Goran said:


> For now, this much. I hope this would be helpful for You.


 Yes, it was very helpful! Thank you!



Goran said:


> Forgot to tell, every day I go to work I pass through Filipovac.


Good to know that! I will tell my uncle. Last month when I was talking to him he said it had been destroyed, and I said I didn't think it was. I think he was talking about the village where his mother (my grandmother) was born. That village name began with the letter "P" but I don't remember the name now. He hasn't been back to Croatia since the war, and I have never been there. But, I will tell him Filipovac is still there!


----------



## Ziva

mmmooretx said:


> It would be wonderful if we could get some detailed plans for the 2 & 3 floor units so we could convert to American standard lumber sizes. For me the best might be something like a set of plans and hardware kits, which would save hugely on shipping costs. A nice bonus would be some expandable plans for the bee house too. Ah well dreams are cheap and reality is expensive....


I concur! But, from everything I've read so far the AŽ hive is difficult to build correctly. And the people I've spoken to directly all said the same thing, "That's complicated!". But, I'm still holding on to the hope of finding plans for a traditional beehouse. So far I've only seen an outline drawing, but no plans or material list. Yes, dreams.........


----------



## Ziva

cerezha said:


> Ziva
> What is the distance between frames center-to-center (from center of one frame to the center of another) and how wide the frame itself? Better in millimeters/cm since I assume the beehive itself is metric. Thanks!


The frames don't sit tight in the spacers so there's some 'wiggle' room. The center-to-center is ~ 37mm. If I push the frames apart farthest in the spacers they're 39mm. If I pull them closest in the spacers they're 36mm. (So, 3mm 'wiggle' room). The width of the frame is 25mm (top, bottom and sides are all the same width). The width of the whole frame is 41cm and the depth is 26cm (263mm).



cerezha said:


> I think, it is not necessary to reproduce the exact copy of the hive. There are some features, which made it unique:
> - only front exposed to weather, thus - double insulation at the front;
> - access to all frames simultaneously from the back;
> - sliding frames;
> - non-extendable design;
> - beehive supposed to be the part of beehouse, thus, minimal insulation on the sides, air gap between backdoor and frames for thermoinsulation;
> - screen at the back to observe the bees without disturbing.


It seems to me that you are correct, but then, I don't have experience with the AŽ hive yet. This link seems like a good explanation of the hive. (It has English, French and German translations. Click on the word at the far right of the menu bar, there's a drop down menu. Click the top name, there's another drop down, then click "AŽ panj". Good info: http://www.czs.si/cebelar_panji_az.php



cerezha said:


> Once these features implemented, the exact size is not such important. Many thanks Ziva for sharing all photos! Sergey


You're welcome!


----------



## Ziva

mmmooretx said:


> ziva,
> Just as kind of a follow up on the AZ hive you bought what kind of foundation does it look like should be used?


I have no idea because I have no experience with foundation. All my hives are natural comb with no foundation or foundation starter strips. Here's a couple of photos;
Warré comb:
http://i402.photobucket.com/albums/pp101/zeeva_daveed/Warrecomb.jpg

kTBH comb:
http://i402.photobucket.com/albums/pp101/zeeva_daveed/TBHcomb.jpg

The out side dimensions of the AŽ frames are 16 1/8" wide X 10 3/8" deep. The inside dimensions are 15 5/16" X 9 1/4". Hope that helps?



mmmooretx said:


> I think I saw a grooved top and a couple of holes in the end bar, but did not see a picture of the bottom bar. Still curious on this aspect of the hive.
> Thanks again in advance for all you have with us.


You're welcome . Yes, there is a groove for foundation in the top bar of the frame. I didn't take a picture of the bottom bar because there is no groove there. Just at the top. (The holes at the top of the end bar is really just the space where the grove is, not for wires). There are 5 tiny holes in the top bar and at the bottom bar for wires. So that would mean vertical wires. But Goran said (p.3 of this thread) vertical wires were possibly a problem and the beekeeper he spoke to said 5 horizontal wires are used for the standard AŽ frame, and 6 horizontal wires for the AŽ grom size. 

I'm not really sure what I'm going to do yet. So far I've had good luck going foundationless, but on the other hand I have no experience yet with the AŽ hive. But, in the thread Bostek started ("beekeeper beginner from Slovenia") he shows a photo of frames prepped for foundationless, using foundation starter strips. I've only used wooden comb guides for my hives so I might do that with the AŽ frames. (Wood craft sticks 'glued' into the foundation groove with melted beeswax). 

Sorry I couldn't be of more help . Obviously, I need to do more research.....


----------



## mmmooretx

One picture from bostek seems to indicate foundationless, with a strip starter and some vertical mono-filament (I heard 10-20 lb. is plenty), on page 2 in his photo gallery set about half way down. However the frame next to the foundationless one looks like a full wax foundation (again with fishing line) with holes for horizontal mono-filament, so he does both.

Thanks for the internal and external dimensions (now printing all of the sketches that were referenced as drawings to see what I can garner) and it looks like the surface area is not that much different from a Lang. deep. I am all 10 frame Langs. right now 3 with one NUC that I hope will make it through the winter and I have two package bee sets paid for due to be picked up on 6 April I think. These are going into all med. super hives, full deeps are HEAVY, that I am going to try out next year making 6 hives total in my back yard (urban, in development).

I have used the Walter Kelly foundationless frames with excellence success, and also gluing in 1/8" plywood strips (beeswax on the edges) was sucessful. I have not tried wax foundation strips, but all you have to do is to melt some beeswax into the groove to hold your wax strip. I am going med supers foundationless so I can cut the comb into blocks or crush and strain (saving over buying an extractor). I have a lot of hopes for next year which will be my first harvest. As an after thought I'll be you could put an AZ foundationless frame into an extractor if it had the 5 vertical lines out of fishing line. 

Thanks again for your responses and insights.


----------



## Ziva

You're right. Looking at bostek's photos again, I can see that he's using some horizontal wiring , some vertical wiring, foundation, and foundationless. I wonder if he's experimenting, or if it doesn't matter? 

I know deeps are HEAVY! That's another reason I use Warrés. They're about the same as an 8-frame medium. I'm a wimp, so that's as much as I can handle when they're full of honey...

I haven't used an extractor, only crush/strain and cut comb. But I was told you can put foundationless combs in an extractor as long as they're not new comb which would be too soft/fragile and could blow out. But, I don't have personal experience and that's just what I was told.

I hope your hives all make it through the winter. You have mild winters so they probably will! And also good luck with your 6 hives and first honey harvest next year. In your location you may get more than one. But ANY honey harvest is fun the first time, and messy, but still fun!

Good luck(!) and it really sounds like you're putting a lot of forethought in everything you're doing. I would love to see any drawing/plans you come up with. Are you willing to post them when you're ready? That would be really great!! And photos too!


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## cerezha

Ziva said:


> Warré comb:
> http://i402.photobucket.com/albums/pp101/zeeva_daveed/Warrecomb.jpg
> kTBH comb:
> http://i402.photobucket.com/albums/pp101/zeeva_daveed/TBHcomb.jpg


 Beautiful honey comb, Ziva!

I am also foundationless. I have one 5-med Lang and horizontal 20-frames deep "Lang". I am experimenting with frame's design. I am using "truncated" classical frames and also just top bars. Interestingly, my latest "top-bars" has exactly the same dimensions as your AZ hive (this why I was asking) - it is approximately equal to 9 frames in 10-frame Lang. Full deep-size foundationless honeycomb is heavy! I would imagine that you probably need some sort of foundation. Since, you crush-and-strain, you have wax. What about simple "foundation" made just as a sheet of wax, no patterns? Sounded very natural!


----------



## cerezha

Ziva said:


> The frames don't sit tight in the spacers so there's some 'wiggle' room. The center-to-center is ~ 37mm. If I push the frames apart farthest in the spacers they're 39mm. If I pull them closest in the spacers they're 36mm. (So, 3mm 'wiggle' room). The width of the frame is 25mm (top, bottom and sides are all the same width). The width of the whole frame is 41cm and the depth is 26cm (263mm).


 Many thanks for info!


----------



## cerezha

Did you see this:
http://www.czs.si/cebelar_cebelnjaki.php
There are 3 plans for beehouse in pdf . They kinf of self-explanatory.


----------



## mmmooretx

I'm nearly done doing the conversions from metric to imperial (USA) on the sketches in the earlier referenced site. Yes building an exact copy would be difficult due to the conversions ending in fractions like 23/64". So I started thinking of using standard foundation for deeps. I measured one of my deep frames to approximate reasonable dimensions 17 3/4 X 9 1/8" and the AZ conversions were rounded for general ease of use, 10 1/4 X 14 1/4". This yielded areas of 162 sq." for the Lang. deep, and 146 sq." for the AZ frame (standard?). The AZ frame is shorter in length and taller which could make it difficult to find wax foundation to use in them in the USA. However if the hive/frames were designed around Lang. deep foundation size it would be easier to populate with any desired foundation, foundationless. I do not think I am skilled enough to put it into a CAD program like Google Sketchup.
Interesting project anyway.


----------



## mmmooretx

cerezha said:


> Did you see this:
> http://www.czs.si/cebelar_cebelnjaki.php
> There are 3 plans for beehouse in pdf . They kinf of self-explanatory.


Sergey, no I missed them, I will print now to review, thanks for the help.

Update: Outstanding and many thanks Sergey! They help me understand the setup much more clearly.


----------



## Ziva

cerezha said:


> Beautiful honey comb, Ziva!


Thank you!



cerezha said:


> I am also foundationless. I have one 5-med Lang and horizontal 20-frames deep "Lang". I am experimenting with frame's design. I am using "truncated" classical frames and also just top bars.


 That's fantastic!! (Some Warré beekeepers also use truncated frames instead of just the top bars of the original design). I imagine you have some beautiful combs! And the horizontal "lang" sounds great too. No lifting boxes!



cerezha said:


> Interestingly, my latest "top-bars" has exactly the same dimensions as your AZ hive (this why I was asking) - it is approximately equal to 9 frames in 10-frame Lang.


That IS interesting! What a coincidence!



cerezha said:


> Full deep-size foundationless honeycomb is heavy!


Do you ever have problems with it breaking off the top bars with that much weight? I'd be nervous to try!



cerezha said:


> I would imagine that you probably need some sort of foundation. Since, you crush-and-strain, you have wax. What about simple "foundation" made just as a sheet of wax, no patterns? Sounded very natural!


That's a great idea I hadn't thought of! Since I have no experience with foundation, (or frames either!) I was just thinking of using a wood comb guide like I already do. But then I wondered if I might end up with problems doing that in an AŽ hive. But I love seeing the natural comb and don't like the idea of 'forcing' the bees to make cells sizes on pre-formed, embossed foundation. Your idea sounds like a perfect solution! Thank you!


----------



## Ziva

cerezha said:


> Did you see this:
> http://www.czs.si/cebelar_cebelnjaki.php
> There are 3 plans for beehouse in pdf . They kinf of self-explanatory.


No, I missed seeing that! Wow, thank you so much for pointing it out!!!!!!! That's absolutely perfect and exactly what I wanted to find!

Thank you!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## mmmooretx

Ziva said:


> That's a great idea I hadn't thought of! Since I have no experience with foundation, (or frames either!) I was just thinking of using a wood comb guide like I already do. But then I wondered if I might end up with problems doing that in an AŽ hive. But I love seeing the natural comb and don't like the idea of 'forcing' the bees to make cells sizes on pre-formed, embossed foundation. Your idea sounds like a perfect solution! Thank you!


Nice idea. Has anyone seen non-embossed sheets of bees wax that could be cut to the AZ frame size?


----------



## cerezha

mmmooretx said:


> I'm nearly done doing the conversions from metric to imperial (USA) ...


 Metric vs imperial - HA-HA! I have this problem quite often - our machine shop mechanics could not do anything metric - always mistakes... It seems to me at least one Mars mission was unsuccessful because company-manufacturer used miles and JPL - kilometers... To me, there is no reason to adapt AZ to the Lang - the beauty of the AZ hive is that* it is not* a Lang! AZ hive has much longer history than Lang and apparently - doing VERY well in its own dimensions. It is really cool project! 

I think, the main complexity of the hive comes from design (and drawing!) of the body. It is my understanding that at least front side of the hive has two layers with insulation between. There are detailed instruction on Slovenian Web-site that wood for AZ hive must be dried for at least 3 years - so far I got... From this, I think, we should work around internal body dimensions with understanding that exterior may be slightly different depending from weather conditions.

Next would be to split the whole design in two nearly identical parts (compartments) - upper and lover and queen excluder between.

Now, we need to know the size of the space between frames and body (inside). 

and so on...


----------



## mmmooretx

Yes that was Lockheed. I work supporting the Space Station at Johnson Space Center in Houston.

I was not sure if that space was empty or had insulation, interesting (the type would be interesting). Two other things I am still scratching at is the 3 rods that support the frames, and the centering spacers Ziva was talking about. The drawings seem to indicate a box in a box, but I am curious about how the various items get supported/attached. I have a big issue with SHB here in Houston so on the bottom I would be interested in a Freeman oil trap under a screened bottom that is removable, plus maybe a gridded plastic board for varroa counts. Interesting discussions here, thanks again!
I have been chatting with Janet at Country Rubes on the wax mixtures for dipping the wood parts, everything must be glued first, so these hives would need a very large/expensive tank to dip in (10 minutes seems to be ideal). There was an Australian paper written on this and if you paint it while the wood is still hot it will attach (also gets sucked into the pores) 2 coats recommended, but paint will not stick if it cools.


----------



## cerezha

mmmooretx said:


> Yes that was Lockheed. I work supporting the Space Station at Johnson Space Center in Houston.


 Really cool! I have friend working for JPL. 



mmmooretx said:


> I was not sure if that space was empty or had insulation, interesting (the type would be interesting).


 We have similar design in Russia. They create the body (internal part) and then use planks with tooth-grove connection to cover the body outside. In Russia they do not use additional insulation - just two layers of planks and some gaps between provided the insulation. In AZ hive they DO use insulation. In fact, it was stated that insulation must completely fill up the space between planks to prevents insects. What made everything even trickier is that in AZ hive, only front part exposed to the weather. So, it is my understanding that just front has two wood layers with insulation between. Sides are single body. Back has insulating air gap between "door" and internal screen. Tricky!



mmmooretx said:


> Two other things I am still scratching at is the 3 rods that support the frames, and the centering spacers Ziva was talking about.


 My understanding is that side walls are single and they just drill the holes...



mmmooretx said:


> I have been chatting with Janet at Country Rubes on the wax mixtures for dipping the wood parts...


 I have mixed feeling about this approach: (1) looks great! (2) it makes wood water-proof, the main function of wood, humidity regulation (breathing) is missing. If so - plastic may be used, why wood?


----------



## cerezha

mmmooretx said:


> ..... They help me understand the setup much more clearly.


 I particularly love the elegance of curved roof over the "facade" of the beehouse. It looks like the bigger room (plan A) has honey-extraction area?


----------



## mmmooretx

cerezha said:


> I particularly love the elegance of curved roof over the "facade" of the beehouse. It looks like the bigger room (plan A) has honey-extraction area?


I agree 100% on the curved front/top. I think it is the same, or very close, to the one posted by bostek in the photo section. I also like the natural wood finish and wonder what they are using that stands up to their winters. Also I think you are right on the second room being the extractor room, which I like very much. My garage is already full of "stuff" so beyond the cost of an extractor there is the storage overhead for something used twice a year?
I am also curious on how that watering board works, in the picture that bostek put up. I like the rainwater recovery system to the tank too.


----------



## Goran

For translation I need some time,even is slovenian simmilar to ours, it's not so small text. I'll see later. For pouring bees into hive is some as You say "adapter board" which you put when open the door and so the bees don't fall on the ground. The holders goes into the hive and plate with some edge on a sides is in front of You. So when need to brush off the bees from frames or so it is helpful. But some beekeepers don't want to bother with it ( it slows them)..
Still didn't found the book, sorry..

Forgot to see this board, type in google picture search " sipalnik" or " sipaonik". It's simple to make.


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## mmmooretx

Thank you very much for your time Goran, I kind of assumed that use after seeing bostek's video. Now I am just trying to gather information on tools and techniques for this type of hive.


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## Goran

What I know I will try to give objective info without make-up. Now is winter, in spring I may be more in chance to picture some AŽ grom at my place. Now we are all busy in a " workshops", preparing woodenware, planning, reading, etc.. I believe same as You. 
All the best..


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## mmmooretx

Goran,
Thank you again for your support. Inside pictures of how things are positioned inside a bee house would be very helpful, and Spring will be fine.
Thank you again.

Update: If anyone knows of YouTube videos showing the AZ hives or the bee houses they are built into please share them, assuming they have not already been shared in this thread. Thank you.


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## cerezha

mmmooretx said:


> ... I also like the natural wood finish and wonder what they are using that stands up to their winters. ...


 In Russia we were using hard boiled linseed oil - apply hot in 3-5 24-48 hours apart coats until oil does not get in anymore. It creates beautiful golden finish, which survived many Russian winters. It was most common way of wood preservation in Russia for centuries. I tried the same approach here in US (SoCal) and it did not work at all - oil is not the same and/or sun. My impression is that in SoCal at least UV from sun is much-much stronger than in Russia and it damages oil finish. In Los Angeles, literally any transparent outdoor finish does not stay for more than 1.5 years... I find the oil-based finish from Canada,which designed for boats (expensive) - this one stays 3 years on my redwood deck. It creates really beautiful finish - if interested, I could find the name of the product.


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## mmmooretx

Sergey,
I read somewhere to add 1-2 ounces of beeswax to 1 quart of boiled linseed oil and brush on while hot, but do not remember about multiple coats.


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## cerezha

mmmooretx said:


> Sergey,
> I read somewhere to add 1-2 ounces of beeswax to 1 quart of boiled linseed oil and brush on while hot, but do not remember about multiple coats.


 Interesting. In Russia, we just use linseed oil - when it dry, it is like varnish, it creates a thick hard shiny golden layer. I would imagine, with wax it would be more waterproof, but wax will make protective layer softer and less shiny...


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## mmmooretx

cerezha said:


> Interesting. In Russia, we just use linseed oil - when it dry, it is like varnish, it creates a thick hard shiny golden layer. I would imagine, with wax it would be more waterproof, but wax will make protective layer softer and less shiny...


Sergey, what type of wood did you use in Russia and did you only coat the outside or inside and outside?


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## cerezha

mmmooretx said:


> Sergey, what type of wood did you use in Russia and did you only coat the outside or inside and outside?


 Good question. We mainly use a pine, but I know that people used linseed oil on birch and other porous wood. I am not sure how it is used on log-houses. My understanding is that they cover the entire log before building. But I also saw a new houses built from un-treated wood, which, I assume, will be treated later. From another hand I know that Russians prefer untreated wood inside the house for "freshness of the air" and breathing (wood is breathing). So, the answer is that I do not know exactly. I think, that service buildings are probably treated entirely, houses - probably treated only outside. Keep in mind that it was many years ago. I do not think that anybody in Russia treat wood with linseed oil anymore. Russia is following Western at least in consuming preferences - I would guess that they use artificially created varnish exported from Germany these days...


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## igep

Pamlar said:


> I have been searching the website for plans on this particular hive and have had
> almost zero results. Found only one website from Slovenia and their arrticular plans left more questions than answers. Any infor on additional websites or plans for this particular hive would be sincerely appreciated. Thanks much...
> pamlar


Hi:

If you are interested in purchasing one already built, try Logar in SLovenia. Nadja is very helpful and speaks English very well. The cost of the hive is $240 (20 frames) but the shipping is about $195. Also the foundation is different size than Langstroth and is thicker so you would have to rig something up or go foundationless. I am thinking of purchasing one if I can solve this problem.

Peg
[email protected]


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## ahickman406

http://www.soiledandseeded.com/magazine/issue08/the_bees_of_slovenia.php

Really interesting pictures in this article. I love the ones of the truck....Bee Vacation Time......


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## igep

Mariner said:


> Has anyone had any luck with obtaining an AŽ hive? I've been doing a bit of research and have found a lot of sources on Slovenian web sites, however I'm not sure anyone will ship to the US. Ideally a set of good plans would be helpful. I'm planning on making one if I cannot get one next winter....I can send links of the stuff I found just let me know.
> 
> http://www.bolha.com/cebelarstvo/az-panji-trietazni-oglas1277523218
> 
> 
> http://www.logar-trade.si/p/Panj-10-satni--AŽ/8100&klasid=10601000


Hi:

I just successfully ordered a AZ hive from Logar. Email to [email protected].
She is very helpful and speaks English well. The cost with shipping is about $400. I paid for it using Western Union online which converted the currency. If you have any questions you can email me at [email protected]


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## igep

Hi Goran:

I just purchased AZ hive but have not received it yet. Can you further explain how you install a package of bees into the hive? I am wondering if I can just remove 4-5 frames and put the box in but still have to figure out where to put the queen. Perhaps suspend the cage between the tops of two frames? Please let me know if you have any suggestions.

Thanks
Peg


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## igep

Goran said:


> Type "AŽ košnice" in google picture search and You'll see beehouse and how are transported, also there are 10 frame - standard. 11-12 frames "AŽ GROM". On a small place more hives, extremelly mobile.. But difficult to make and expensive.. Some says even You get all measures always something goes wrong, the best is buy one and copy-paste. And have a "fun" to assemble it.


Hi Goran:

DO you have plans for a very small siomple bee house for an AZ hive. I am expecting one in a few weeks and haven't any idea how to build the housing.
Thanks!
Peg


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## igep

Pamlar said:


> I have been searching the website for plans on this particular hive and have had
> almost zero results. Found only one website from Slovenia and their arrticular plans left more questions than answers. Any infor on additional websites or plans for this particular hive would be sincerely appreciated. Thanks much...
> pamlar


You can purchase one from Logar for about $400 including shipping


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## igep

Logar in Sencur Slovenia has AZ hives for sale


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## igep

I hope you are still on the forum and still using the AZ beehive. I am in the same boat you were in a few years ago. I have an AZ hive on order but haven't the slightest idea of how to house it or how to manage it. I would really appreciate and suggestions and pictures if possible. I may need to wait until next year to set it up. Please contact me
Peg in Boston MA
[email protected]


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## Dominic

Langstroth-compatible AZ hives would be nice...


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## WBVC

I may be very wrong but after looking on line I don't think it would be all that difficult to modify Langstroth concept into these hives. The hives I saw had 10 frames with a front entrance. The back was a door that swung open, then there was a removable cross brace that held a frame with frame spacers and a ventilation panel. The spacer frame and ventilation panel are pried off to get to the bee frames. The top had an excluder on it and above that was a super that looked like a Lang dadant super. There were metal cleats on the side to keep the super and brood box in line. The brood box with door etc seemed a bit deeper than the super so there is a small shelf on the top of the back of the brood box. Seems that would keep the lower box physically stable. The bottom board appeared to be screened.
They seem to stack them directly side by side with 1-2 supers, then a shelf and the next row of hives goes into place.
If some else has different thoughts on this let me know.
Also the front entrance seems to have a landing board the flips up to close it and some seem to have a small entrance on the front of the supers.

Like to hear what others think. Modifying a Lang concept would be more cost effective than p[aying shipping from Slovenia. If cost was no issue order a dozen and go for it
If enough folks were interested it may be more cost effective to order a container as a group.


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## igep

WBVC said:


> I may be very wrong but after looking on line I don't think it would be all that difficult to modify Langstroth concept into these hives. The hives I saw had 10 frames with a front entrance. The back was a door that swung open, then there was a removable cross brace that held a frame with frame spacers and a ventilation panel. The spacer frame and ventilation panel are pried off to get to the bee frames. The top had an excluder on it and above that was a super that looked like a Lang dadant super. There were metal cleats on the side to keep the super and brood box in line. The brood box with door etc seemed a bit deeper than the super so there is a small shelf on the top of the back of the brood box. Seems that would keep the lower box physically stable. The bottom board appeared to be screened.
> They seem to stack them directly side by side with 1-2 supers, then a shelf and the next row of hives goes into place.
> If some else has different thoughts on this let me know.
> Also the front entrance seems to have a landing board the flips up to close it and some seem to have a small entrance on the front of the supers.
> 
> Like to hear what others think. Modifying a Lang concept would be more cost effective than p[aying shipping from Slovenia. If cost was no issue order a dozen and go for it
> If enough folks were interested it may be more cost effective to order a container as a group.



The Lang is so different that it might be hard to modify. You would have to connect the two deeps, make a back door and think of a totally different mechanism to slide the frames since the top bar is flat instead of curved. It would be great if we can figure out a design that can at least utilize the Lang frames. My friend Mark is looking into having a man in Michigan try to copy his AZ hive. We may have an answer in a few weeks if he can do it. There is also a lady in Georgia who is having her carpenter build some.


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## peca777

http://www.pcelinjak.hr/OLD/index.php/Kosnice/10-okvirna-a-konica.html
meybe help


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## Goran

igep said:


> Hi Goran:
> 
> I just purchased AZ hive but have not received it yet. Can you further explain how you install a package of bees into the hive? I am wondering if I can just remove 4-5 frames and put the box in but still have to figure out where to put the queen. Perhaps suspend the cage between the tops of two frames? Please let me know if you have any suggestions.
> 
> Thanks
> Peg


I didn't watched this theme recently. 
Here is one of the pics and I believe can make one:

http://www.logar-trade.si/resize/upload/pimg/8178v-big.jpg


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## Goran

igep said:


> Hi Goran:
> 
> DO you have plans for a very small siomple bee house for an AZ hive. I am expecting one in a few weeks and haven't any idea how to build the housing.
> Thanks!
> Peg


Just to have shelter above, If I be in chance will take pic of one such, not beauty but suits for purpose.


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## WBVC

igep said:


> The Lang is so different that it might be hard to modify. You would have to connect the two deeps, make a back door and think of a totally different mechanism to slide the frames since the top bar is flat instead of curved. It would be great if we can figure out a design that can at least utilize the Lang frames. My friend Mark is looking into having a man in Michigan try to copy his AZ hive. We may have an answer in a few weeks if he can do it. There is also a lady in Georgia who is having her carpenter build some.


Wasn't thinking of modifying a Lang...rather if one were to build a Slovenian hive to make the frame size compatible for adding brood, making nucs etc. I did email Nadia and await a reply.
Let us know when your hive arrives and post lots of detailed photos


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## WBVC

peca777 said:


> http://www.pcelinjak.hr/OLD/index.php/Kosnice/10-okvirna-a-konica.html
> meybe help


Super...can you translate the instructions? It would be helpful to many.


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## peca777

ok i will try


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## igep

Mariner said:


> Has anyone had any luck with obtaining an AŽ hive? I've been doing a bit of research and have found a lot of sources on Slovenian web sites, however I'm not sure anyone will ship to the US. Ideally a set of good plans would be helpful. I'm planning on making one if I cannot get one next winter....I can send links of the stuff I found just let me know.
> 
> http://www.bolha.com/cebelarstvo/az-panji-trietazni-oglas1277523218
> 
> 
> http://www.logar-trade.si/p/Panj-10-satni--AŽ/8100&klasid=10601000


I am not sure if you are still looking for an AZ hive. If you are, Logar will ship to the US. If you are interested I will give you info on how I did it. I just received my hive today.

Peg


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## igep

Hi:

Just received my hive today but have not unpacked it. Waiting for the weather to improve. I did order foundation from Logar but don't know if I will actually set the hive up this year or wait until next. I want to understand more about the hive and get properly set up before installing bees into it. My bees will be here in less than one month and I don't know if I will be ready to use the AZ by then. If anyone wants to order a hive from Logar, email me at [email protected] and I will give you info on how I ordered it.

Peg


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## igep

Hi Goran:

I was not able to get a Grom AZ so just have the standard size. Do I have any options for adding a super or expanding the hive if needed? Or is my only option to extract one frame at a time. Please advise. 

Peg
[email protected]


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## Goran

igep said:


> Hi Goran:
> 
> I was not able to get a Grom AZ so just have the standard size. Do I have any options for adding a super or expanding the hive if needed? Or is my only option to extract one frame at a time. Please advise.
> 
> Peg
> [email protected]



I will try to give You some problems mentioned with AŽ standard. I don't beekeep with AŽ, I use langs. But man who I know and use AŽ preffer AŽ Grom cause of space ( brood and honey). But if You are "condemned" to standard, there are some options. To make nucs of surplus of brood by simple taking it, or to attach from back side one cassette with 4 frames which queen will lay in and that way expand the brood space. Later You can take these 4 frames of brood also and make nuc. Of course they do also relieving the pressure in brood box by lifting the frames of sealed brood above. But it is rather small hive for great colonies ( as they say and I believe that).
By the way I saw some modifications of lang hives as AŽ system, at the moment not my sphere of interest, I didn't saw them live and heard experiences . These ideas good to ease the migratory beekeeping, as many migratory beeks use bee containers for that job ( and cause of small space in containers). One day hopefully when I could afford to evolve to such stage I will study more about it.


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## igep

Goran said:


> Just to have shelter above, If I be in chance will take pic of one such, not beauty but suits for purpose.


Hi Goran:

I did not receive picture yet. Did you already try to send it? I would really be interested in seeing it.

Also, can you tell me how the foundation fits or is installed in the AZ hive? I have heard it needs to be wired but is there a groove like in Langstroth frame?

Thanks,
Peg


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## igep

HI Goran:

Thanks for the info but I have a couple of questions. If I take brood frames from the AZ, would I put them in a NUC box? WOuld they fit in a Langstroth size NUC box or would they be too long or tall? Then once the frame is removed from the AZ there would be too much space with the gap and they would make burr comb.
As for the cassette, I am not sure what you mean. What exactly is a cassette and how would I attach it to the brood box? Are you talking about a standard 5 frame NUC box?
Have you seen any pictures of modified Lang hives that use AZ system? What exactly do you mean by "migratory beekeeping"?
Sorry for all of the questions but most of athis is really new to me. I really appreciate your help and your patience.

Thanks

Peg


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## CBS

Hi Folks,

Plymouth County, Massachusetts here. At our February meeting, my club had a speaker, Mark Simonitsch, about Slovenia beekeeping. Please click link:

http://www.plymouthcountybeekeepers.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Slovenian-Bee-Tour-Fall-2014.pdf

Anyway,...He and his friend, both from Chatham, Cape Cod, brought along one of these hives, straight from Slovenia, and demonstrated the contraption. Talk about your "Black Forest Cuckoo Clock". Verrryyy Interesting.

They (the friend) plan/s to build these things here in the Good Ole U.S. of A. These are not only "works of art", but super-functional as well. 

The photo seminar was very, very pleasant. They were real nice guys.

Mark's phone number is at the end of the attachment.

CBS


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## Mary Ann

CBS said:


> Hi Folks,
> 
> Plymouth County, Massachusetts here. At our February meeting, my club had a speaker, Mark Simonitsch, about Slovenia beekeeping. Please click link:
> 
> http://www.plymouthcountybeekeepers.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Slovenian-Bee-Tour-Fall-2014.pdf
> 
> Anyway,...He and his friend, both from Chatham, Cape Cod, brought along one of these hives, straight from Slovenia, and demonstrated the contraption. Talk about your "Black Forest Cuckoo Clock". Verrryyy Interesting.
> 
> They (the friend) plan/s to build these things here in the Good Ole U.S. of A. These are not only "works of art", but super-functional as well.
> 
> The photo seminar was very, very pleasant. They were real nice guys.
> 
> Mark's phone number is at the end of the attachment.
> 
> CBS


HI, I would be interested in buying one of these hives to get started in beekeeping. This design is more user-friendly if lifting is a challenge. Please let me know where I can get one, thanks


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## eegeezee

Mary Ann said:


> HI, I would be interested in buying one of these hives to get started in beekeeping. This design is more user-friendly if lifting is a challenge. Please let me know where I can get one, thanks


I want one too! Apparently, they are sold here: http://www.slovenianbeekeeping.com/index-one.html

Please respond to let me know if and when you receive one. I am interested to see whether they are constructed well.

Erica


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## Mary Ann

eegeezee said:


> I want one too! Apparently, they are sold here: http://www.slovenianbeekeeping.com/index-one.html
> 
> Please respond to let me know if and when you receive one. I am interested to see whether they are constructed well.
> 
> Erica


Sure Erica, I am looking for a small trailer to pull behind my SUV to mount them. Hopefully this summer I can pull this together to have a mobile bee unit!!


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## pecinjo

"Beekeeping 1-2" is a film from Slovenian production "Brut movie", recorded in 1980-ies. The film deals with the basics of beekeeping with AŽ hives. Its in Serbocroatian but even so it's helpful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlhveiEqU_E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4qb9CoTyU8


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## Ziva

polaro said:


> Maisterdan has Slovenian beehive, http://www.ebay.com/itm/Beekeeping-Equipment-National-Slovenian-AZ-beehive-10-frames-/271883958008?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f4d8bf6f8
> Very good price


That's who I bought my three Slovenian hives from a couple years ago. He's great to deal with and the hives were well packed and shipping was fast!


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## Fishman43

Ziva said:


> That's who I bought my three Slovenian hives from a couple years ago. He's great to deal with and the hives were well packed and shipping was fast!


Ziva,
Can you tell us more about how these 3 hives have done for you? What management they require? Or any other details about their use?


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## trinity

Ziva said:


> That's who I bought my three Slovenian hives from a couple years ago.


Ziva, I've been reading the threads on Slovenian hives, including the "story" of your purchase, and I've looked through your wonderful photos (as well as all of the others I could find online). One thing that still puzzles me is the feeder. I still can't figure out how the bees get to the syrup with those. Can you describe, and maybe put up some additional photos?

Also, are your hives double-walled in front? I'm trying to determine whether that's actually needed in warm climates, but I've noticed that on the photos that some, at least, are not double-walled.

I'm in the process of adapting the plans I've found online for use with Langstroth-deep-sized frames (still with the curved tops and bottoms of the AZ frames, though). I'm planning on the three-level type.


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## SuzanneB

Hi Trinity,
I am not sure which feeder you are referring to but there are two types used with the Slovene AZ Hive. One is part of the back screen door and you pour the sugar water in and they climb down the screen on the inside.






There is also a bottle feeder that inserts under the lower back screen and you can use regular water bottles with tiny holes in the lid. There are plugs that can cover the unused openings, there are 3 openings in all. I can get a picture if this is the one you are referring to. The bottle board has a bee space underneath so they can get to the bottle caps.

Suzanne
Slovenian Beekeeping LLC


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## trinity

SuzanneB said:


> I am not sure which feeder you are referring to but there are two types used with the Slovene AZ Hive. One is part of the back screen door and you pour the sugar water in and they climb down the screen on the inside.


Thanks, Suzanne. I heard back earlier today from a beekeeper in Slovenia (used to be a regular here, but hasn't been active in over a year). He described the "traditional" screen door feeder to me in enough detail that I was able to figure it out. I hadn't been able to see from various photos that there is enough of a gap between the screen and the inside of the feeder for the bees to get to the syrup. I presume that the feeder parts are sealed to prevent leaks?


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## SuzanneB

Hi Trinity, yes, the feeder is glued so it does not leak and there is plenty of space for them to walk down the screen. Its great as you can feed them and not disturb them. Suzanne


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## trinity

Suzanne, do you know why the entrance on the AZ hive is so much smaller than on a Langstroth? And why there are entrances on the upper compartments?


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## SuzanneB

Hi Trinity, the lower entrance has 3 sizes it can be and the biggest one is the same as the Lang. It has some pieces that can make it small or large. There is also an upper entrance, just like if you have two deep Langs, you have an inner cover above to allow for a second entrance. You want these entrances for circulation. Suzanne


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## trinity

SuzanneB said:


> Hi Trinity, the lower entrance has 3 sizes it can be and the biggest one is the same as the Lang. It has some pieces that can make it small or large.


So, basically the same principle as a Langstroth-style entrance reducer (the ones that flip different ways for different sizes of opening)?



> There is also an upper entrance, just like if you have two deep Langs, you have an inner cover above to allow for a second entrance. You want these entrances for circulation.


It seems to me that the Slovenians use the upper entrances more than we do here in the U.S.

I notice that some of the AZ hives are double-walled in front and others are not. (The plans online show a double wall.) Is there any other reason for the double wall, besides insulation from the cold? And why is there so much space between the outside of the feeder and the door?


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## SuzanneB

Hello, the double wall is for insulation. The space in back is for a few reasons: 
1) in colder climates you can put a layer of insulation there, 
2) there is a 3 bottle feeder that slides under the bottom frame, I have attached a pic







3) although probably not one of the reasons but certainly works for us who want to change over from Langs to AZ, the Lang frames will slide in there but you will not be able to close the back screen doors. Then as you take out the Lang frames to do splits or take out honey frames, you would replace with the AZ frames.

Suzanne


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## trinity

SuzanneB said:


> Hello, the double wall is for insulation.


Is that just insulation from extreme cold, or also from heat? Does it help with humidity and improving the drying of the honey?



> The space in back is for a few reasons


So, if I'm not using insulation in back, and using the screened-box feeder and AZ frames, I can do without that extra space?


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## SuzanneB

The AZ hives all come with the extra space in the back. The ones we import from Slovenia come fully assembled. You will want this space if you are putting Lang frames into it and it also offers a great space as you can make a hanging attachment with the mite control patties on the back inside of the door.


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## Calvin Wiles

I'm looking forward to receiving an AZ Hive, that I have ordered. I need to get familiar with it, and make plans on how I'm going to put Bees in it next Spring.


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## blacksheep

I am in the process of building AZ hives to fit the Lang frames size.The Langs are longer and narrower than the AZ frames.Brian Drebber is selling the boxes which are adapted to the Langs size.Since I am long retired I elected to build my own boxes and have 1 finished except for the door.
If any one is interested in the AZ hive method I would buy the hives instead of building them.MY bee house is finished on the inside and I am working on that also.I need to get the front done before installing any bees.Extraction of the AZ frames might be a problem as well since all our extractors are designed for the Lang frames.I designed my own hive and hope it is proper!I have built many Langs and the AZ is quiet different!


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## Calvin Wiles

An update on my AZ Hive. I put a Feral Swarm in it last Spring. The Hive I got had 3 chambers, and they filled the two bottom ones. They have wintered in great shape, and are ready to completely fill it this Summer.


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## blacksheep

Calvin Wiles said:


> An update on my AZ Hive. I put a Feral Swarm in it last Spring. The Hive I got had 3 chambers, and they filled the two bottom ones. They have wintered in great shape, and are ready to completely fill it this Summer.


The hives I am building also have 3 boxes and I love the way you can install a swarm,etc in the lower box and have them blocked off until them fill that section and then pull the blocking board and allow them to fill the next box.The last box is a hoiney super and a queen excluder can be used but I never used the excluders in the langs.I think this will be a great way to keep the bees!


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## Vance G

I made some AZ Slovenian nucs for someone who had bought six of them. Basically I was drawing those frames and stocking them with bees. The AZ frames are a couple inches shorter and a couple inches deeper than Langstroth. It was a memorable project that took a month longer than I planned and that I am not interested in doing again. Anyone doing it, I recommend you Tite bond III plasticel that you have cut narrower to fit the AZ frame and place them in a lang deep with about a two inch extension stapled to the bottom. There are plastic adapters sold to add to each side of the AZ frame. Anyone have questions I will gladly answer.


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## blacksheep

Hi: What I am doing is as follows!I measured the langs deep frame and made AZ frames to that size.I also designed the box for them.I am using plactic foundation coated with wax ,black in the brood boxes and clear in the honey frames. I have some of the yellow snap on to make them work in a Lang strom hive which I already have Swarm Traps that fit the Lang frames.So I will put the AZ frames in my Traps with the clips on them and I lucky and catch a swarm I can just take the yellow clips off and slide them in to the AZ Box.Sounds Great!I hope it works!


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## pecinjo

http://translate.google.com/transla...hp/Kosnice/10-okvirna-a-konica.html&sandbox=1


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## ahickman406

File not found

Quote Originally Posted by cerezha View Post
Did you see this:
http://www.czs.si/cebelar_cebelnjaki.php
There are 3 plans for beehouse in pdf . They kinf of self-explanatory.


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## pecinjo

http://www.czs.si/Files/AZ PANJ.pdf


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## steve4bees

ahickman406 said:


> File not found
> 
> Quote Originally Posted by cerezha View Post
> Did you see this:
> http://www.czs.si/cebelar_cebelnjaki.php
> There are 3 plans for beehouse in pdf . They kinf of self-explanatory.


link above is broken
but I found the files:

http://www.czs.si:80/Images/cebelnjak tip A.pdf
http://www.czs.si/Images/cebelnjak%20tip%20b.pdf
http://www.czs.si/Images/cebelnjak%20tip%20c.pdf

Enjoy steve4bees.us


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