# SC Beekeeping Blues



## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

sqkcrk said:


> we haven't had very good weather for foraging or mating.


Same here. Also, there's no joy working 'em in cold weather either. It put them in a foul mood....


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Mark while I don't share the pain to your extent as it's just a hobby to me with about 25 hives, it is a lousy weather here in SC. I'm feeding also. I'm thinking this cold spell has set everyone here back about 2 weeks if not longer. I'm sure it has really screwed up your schedule.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

the weather here has been mixed, but i'm hoping there have been enough good foraging days mixed in with the cold rainy ones that enough nectar has come in so as to not have starvation.

there was still capped honey from last fall in all of the hives last time i looked, and i have not put any feed out yet.

i am seeing more bees being dragged out with deformed wings, especially from one of the hives. could this be from chilling?


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

squarepeg said:


> i am seeing more bees being dragged out with deformed wings, especially from one of the hives. could this be from chilling?


 Deformed wings from chilling?!


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

shriveled wings. i vaguely remember reading that chilling could cause this, so i thought i would ask.

could be dmv as well, but this is my strongest hive coming out of winter. it has a deep and a half worth of bees. i suppose the brooding could have helped the mites, and this is one i moved back home from an outyard that had mite losses with robbing in one case.

plus, i was a little late in checkerboarding this one, and when i opened it for the first time, the broodnest was divided between the bottom deep and the medium above it (the medium was full of honey going into winter).

in the process of adding the second medium i opened up the broodnest in the first medium with empty comb and moved a couple of frames of brood up into the second medium, keeping the brood frames in all three boxes lined up vertically.

then it turned cold. i may have spread the brood a little bit too much, which is why i thought the dead emerging bees with shriveled wings could have been from the cold. i had not seen any of this before i opened the broodnest and the cold weather set in.

if any of mine deserve to swarm it is this one, but as of last week no swarm intent was seen, all signs indicating an expanding broodnest.

i'll be taking a mite count on this hive pretty soon just to see.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Its cold here too. 

Yesterday I was watching my bees harvesting water from a flipped over garbage can lid that had collected rain. The water surface had frozen overnight, and then partially defrosted in the sun to have a mix of water and ice. Bees were flocking to this cold water! 

A few days earlier I had placed a small block of wood in there so there was a float for them to land on, and most of them definitely preferred to use the water absorbed into the wood. However I saw a few standing on ice and collecting melt water from the surface. This was on a day where my recorded high temperature for the day was 46 degrees.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Shriviled wings on newly emerged bees sounds like Deformed Wing Virus to me, not chilled brood. Better do a mite check.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

sqkcrk said:


> Shriviled wings on newly emerged bees sounds like Deformed Wing Virus to me, not chilled brood. Better do a mite check.


I think in his/her heart, he/she knows this....but was hoping for another explanation.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

if i'm getting dmv after only the first few rounds of brood for the year then i'm guessing this colony is in trouble.

it may have gotten a high load after robbing the dead out next to it a few weeks ago.

if that's the case, it will most likley be split up into mating nucs for my first round of queens.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

What's "dmv"? DWV= deformed wing virus. In my book "dmv" means Dept. of Motor Vehicles.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

> What's "dmv"?

That's when your bees hide out in the back of the hive and try to look busy, even though they are not really doing anything except surfing the web. Its not a fatal condition, but everything moves so slowly that as dusk grows closer you expect to be told to come back tomorrow just to get your "honey". 

:lookout:


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

dwv, thanks mark.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Mark: Feeling your pain here in east Texas as well. Haven't had any flying weather in several days. On the plus side, though, is the bees stay where you put them.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

jim lyon said:


> On the plus side, though, is the bees stay where you put them.


Sometimes ya gotta dig deep to find that silver lining.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

beemandan said:


> Sometimes ya gotta dig deep to find that silver lining.


Actually from a nuc making standpoint it's the best of times. Of course, the big picture isn't quite as rosy as we may not see 60 degrees in the next few days and we have virgins about ready to fly. I just keep reminding myself of one of my rules in this business and that is not to spend a lot of time worrying about things over which I have no control.


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## sfisher (Sep 22, 2009)

Mark Im guessing that you wont be sticking around for the flow, but do you think that the weather we are having now is going to make for a good flow?


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## Bee Whisperer (Mar 24, 2013)

SC BB; I am new to this. What do you mean when you say; "Yellow jasmine is in bloom and causing problems in those hives foraging on it?"


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

sfisher said:


> Mark Im guessing that you wont be sticking around for the flow, but do you think that the weather we are having now is going to make for a good flow?


My bees and I will be here until the orchards in NY need them. Certainly there will be a flow by then.

What the rain we are getting right now is not something I can predict. One thing doesn't necassarily follow thye other.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Bee Whisperer said:


> SC BB; I am new to this. What do you mean when you say; "Yellow jasmine is in bloom and causing problems in those hives foraging on it?"


Yellow Jasmine nectar is toxic to bees. Dead bees on the bottom boards.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

It makes for real hard times raising cells as well. I have always assumed its the pollen, though, and not the nectar but I am not sure it makes much difference. We have seen a lot of it this year but haven't seen the resulting problems. I assume when a lot of other stuff is blooming that they don't pay much attention to it. The bumblebees are thick on it but only an occassional honeybee.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Could bee Jim. I'm not sure.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

squarepeg said:


> then it turned cold. i may have spread the brood a little bit too much,


Now maybe you can see the risk of checkerboarding in the north country.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> Yellow Jasmine nectar is toxic to bees.


I am surprised that bees haven't evolved to where they wouldn't touch it.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

Acebird said:


> Now maybe you can see the risk of checkerboarding in the north country.


in it's true form ace, walt's checkerboarding for nectar management does not involve any manipulation to the broodnest, so in this sense i deviated.

truth is, i was too late getting to this one before it exploded with brood.

i debated whether or not to leave that medium of brood alone and just add a super of comb over it. but since i'm still in the trial and error (mostly error) mode i wanted to try a little bit of opening the broodnest. (not disturbing the nicely established nest in the deep was my insurance policy)

i think the reason walt's methods are not as appropriate in northern climes has more to do with the fact that most are overwintering in double deeps plus a super or two. 

using just a single deep with a super of honey to overwinter here in the south results in the broodnest already being in the bottom box in late winter, (unless your are late like i was with this one).


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## Ruthz (Sep 13, 2011)

Question for Jim: you are raising queens already in SD? Isn't it too cold? And do you have drones available for the queens to mate with? I live in MD, and I am dying to get going on queen rearing, but can't, realistically,until May when when the drones will be mature enough to mate with. What is you secret?


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Per post #14, Jim Lyon (and the jasmine, and the queens) are in Texas at this time. Here's an earlier post where Jim also brought this up:
http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...een-Cells&p=837245&highlight=texas#post837245

.


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

Acebird, the day the bees evolve to not collect Yellow Jasmine will be followed closely by the day they evolve to remove all mites from the hive. I really hope that both of these come true. John


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> I believe that Jim Lyon (and the jasmine, and the queens) is in Texas at this time.


To refine it a bit more....I believe that Jim is in Texas and the yellow jasmine is in bloom there but doesn't seem to be an issue for him this season.
Mark is in SC, the yellow jasmine is in bloom there too....and he is experiencing some losses...small losses, I'd imagine, much as we see here.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Ruthz said:


> Question for Jim: you are raising queens already in SD?


To answer for Jim....his hives and queen rearing are presently in Texas. He moves his hives a bit.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gelsemium_sempervirens

wikipedia says it is toxic to the brood not the adult bee.

Wishes can come true...


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Sorry to hear your problems in SC Mark. I know its been dang cool down south this year. The jet stream is dipping all the way into Georgia. Which consequently turned it into very nice splitting weather last week.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Acebird said:


> wikipedia says it is toxic to the brood *not the adult bee*. Wishes can come true...


Or not ....



sqkcrk said:


> Yellow Jasmine nectar is toxic to bees. *Dead bees *on the bottom boards.


Are you saying Mark is wrong? 

Wikipedia is a useful reference, but its contributors are whomever wishes to contribute. _Just like Beesource_! :lookout: Have you ever encountered a misinformed poster here? 


[UPDATE] Oh, this is perfect timing! I just read the Wikipedia link that Ace posted, and guess what it *actually *says?


> All parts of this plant contain the toxic strychnine-related alkaloidsgelsemine and gelseminine and should not be consumed.[SUP][5][/SUP] The sap may cause skin irritation in sensitive individuals. Children, mistaking this flower for honeysuckle, have been poisoned by sucking the nectar from the flower.[SUP][6][/SUP]The *nectar is also toxic to honeybees*,[SUP][7][/SUP] and causes brood death when gathered by the bees.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gelsemium_sempervirens


:ws:


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

squarepeg said:


> i think the reason walt's methods are not as appropriate in northern climes has more to do with the fact that most are overwintering in double deeps plus a super or two.


I think the reason is that we don't have what Walt calls a honey dome above the active broodnest. Unless the beekeeper left on too much honey, our clusters are up against the inner cover in the spring, not below a super of honey that can be checker-boarded.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

that makes sense michael, thanks for the reply.

down in these parts most of the long time beekeepers run a single deep for brood, and try to leave one medium or shallow super of honey on top for winter, so that's what i've been doing.

most of my hives had a nearly full medium of honey and the equivilent of 4-6 frames of honey in the deep by the first frost last fall. all but the one colony i mentioned above stayed clustered in the deep all winter. it appeared as though they were moving honey down from the supers as they needed it.

i can see that the weather makes a big difference as to how much honey is left in the spring. last year, the flows came early and there was still a lot of honey in the supers when the nectar started coming in, a solid dome in some cases. this year the flows are coming late and the supers are almost empty, with only a few frames to alternate or checkerboard.

basically what i did was weigh the hives last november, and weigh them again in january. honey frames from the supers of the heaviest hives in january were swapped with empty frames of comb from the supers of the lightest hives, and the frames were alternated honey/empty in all of the supers.

thus no honey dome, and plenty of room for upward expansion. now if it would only warm up!


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Michael Palmer said:


> I think the reason is that we don't have what Walt calls a honey dome above the active broodnest. Unless the beekeeper left on too much honey, our clusters are up against the inner cover in the spring, not below a super of honey that can be checker-boarded.


This has been said more than once and I am thankful that you repeated it. I personally have left too much honey and they still drill a hole to the inner cover. They just leave a lot behind on the sides. Maybe they use that honey on the side when they expand back downward because believe you me they are on a mission.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Michael Palmer said:


> Unless the beekeeper left on too much honey, our clusters are up against the inner cover in the spring, not below a super of honey that can be checker-boarded.


I don't believe this is a North vs South thing. Mine are also, invariably, at the top of the hive by the end of winter. I used to use a medium over a deep for overwintering but now many of mine are double deeps. It doesn't make any difference....they're still waiting for me at the top on the first inspection.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

interesting dan. only one of my twelve was 'brooding' in the top medium, and that was because they ran out of room for brood in the deep. they will be gettting a third medium super soon.

i did have some bees in the top boxes in the other eleven from time to time, but they were just getting the honey out and moving it down.

i guess i'm lucky to have them in the bottom to start with, and just add supers as needed.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

SP….either you have a Midas touch….or my bees aren't frugal. All of mine went into winter with their supers full plus some honey in the brood box. Every deep/medium doesn’t have a drop of extra honey. In the double deeps I occasionally find one or two frames with uncapped honey. I started feeding pretty hard…2:1…. over a month ago.
I was talking to a beekeeping friend last night. She has a couple of hundred hives and she was out feeding. She said she hoped we’d get some nectar soon. I told her I was convinced that we were getting nectar (I’m seeing some new comb) but that the bees were consuming it as quickly as it was coming in.
It could be that my mongrel bees have too much Italian in them. I’ve been getting some Carniolans though, and even they are living on the edge. 
For all that complaining….they are booming and look great.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

beemandan said:


> I told her I was convinced that we were getting nectar (I’m seeing some new comb) but that the bees were consuming it as quickly as it was coming in.


Dan, you also said that you have been feeding 2:1 for more than a month. So what is it about the appearance of new comb that leads you to believe that it is a sign of nectar coming in?

Or, to put it another way, I'm interested in how to distinguish new comb as an indicator of the availability of nectar vs syrup.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

dan, are you seeing any difference in your south ga hives compared to your northeast ga ones?

no midas touch here.  and mine aren't booming yet.

i probably should have some patties on. 

i am hoping that the strong foraging days that we have been getting in between the cold ones, plus the little bit of last fall's honey that's still there, will enough to sustain them.

this weather is bound to break soon.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Title of this thread sounds like the name of a song......


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

snl, sure does. .....i got those sc beekeeping blues.... 

dan, i was thinking about what you said about the italian vs. carniolan bees.

the one hive that is booming has larger and more yellow bees that all the rest.

most of the others are smaller and darker bees, derived from local feral mutts, and they are frugal. 

none of mine have had any significant amount of syrup since the fall of 2011, so they have brooded up and down in response to the natural flows here.

the booming hive, (italian blood?), was the one i saw the dwv bees being drug out of. but after a couple of dozen of those, it seems to have stopped.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Michael Palmer said:


> I think the reason is that we don't have what Walt calls a honey dome above the active broodnest. Unless the beekeeper left on too much honey, our clusters are up against the inner cover in the spring, not below a super of honey that can be checker-boarded.


What r u up to these days Michael?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I got the Souith Carolina Beekeeping Blues. It's rained so much it's soaked right thru my shoes. Ain't seen the sunshine or 60s in a week or maybe two. I got the South Carolina Beekeeping Blues.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

You keep singing Mark and we'll ALL have the blues! :applause:


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

sqkcrk said:


> I got the Souith Carolina Beekeeping Blues. It's rained so much it's soaked right thru my shoes. Ain't seen the sunshine or 60s in a week or maybe two. I got the South Carolina Beekeeping Blues.


good one mark. 

maybe to the tune of 'good ole mountain dew', with a banjo in the background.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

sqkcrk said:


> What r u up to these days Michael?


Finished my shop work a couple weeks ago. Thousands of deep frames and mating nuc frames built and wired. Foundation is going in now. Built 350 nuc inner covers and 250 mating nuc supers. Had some 1x12 with knot holes in the middle...perfect for the "Original Knot Hole" Bird House. So I built a bunch of them. Wasn't done yet...build a cute little chicken coop from plans off Amazon. Amish style. My chicks are two weeks old tomorrow. Going out into their new coop soon. 

And, I started looking at nucs today after installing electricicals in the coop. Checked one yard of 48 nucs...none dead, 1 light. One yard of 12 nucs and 20 colonies...one dead production colony, 2 light nucs. 

So I'm up to the usual, and Jonesing for my bees. Got stung on the cheek today...ahhh.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

snl said:


> You keep singing Mark and we'll ALL have the blues! :applause:


Ha, ha. Good one. But you haven't heard me sing.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Herb McIntyre and I spent all day yesterday working Blueberry Bees. We went thru 51 pallets of 4 ways feeding syrup and protien pattys. They haven't had much of a chance to fly here in NC, what w/ cold temps and rainy days.

The protien pattys come in a plastic bag inside a cardboard box. So we had some plastic bags to dispose of. I came across a light hive w/out feeder in it and having no extra feeders I took out a frame and put the plastic bag in its' place and filled it up w/ syrup. We'll see if that was a good idea or not next time I visit the Blueberry Bees.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

sqkcrk said:


> The protein patties come in a plastic bag inside a cardboard box. So we had some plastic bags to dispose of. I came across a light hive w/out feeder in it and having no extra feeders I took out a frame and put the plastic bag in its' place and filled it up w/ syrup. We'll see if that was a good idea or not next time I visit the Blueberry Bees.


Ah, American Ingenuity!


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Some possible lyrics
_My bees are disappearin’ and I got no clues
The trees are filled with bees but I don’t know whose
I’m in a dry county so I can’t get booze
I got the S….C….Beekeeping Blues!_


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

looks like we're on our way of the makings of a real hit here!


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

sqkcrk said:


> Ain't seen the sunshine or 60s in a week or maybe two. I got the South Carolina Beekeeping Blues.


Mark...Come on down and you and Jon can sing the blues together. It isn't a lot better here in Florida.

cchoganjr


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## Adam Foster Collins (Nov 4, 2009)

Michael Palmer said:


> ...Jonesing for my bees. Got stung on the cheek today...ahhh.


All the years you've been working with them, and you're still Jonseing for them by March. Good to hear.

Adam


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Can't believe my 40th year in bees has begun. Party!


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

careful Michael you are aging yourself.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Michael Palmer said:


> Can't believe my 40th year in bees has begun. Party!


Congratulations. I know it's not a competition, but I know a guy who has been a beekeeper about 60 years. Cleo knows him too. 

36 degrees and sunny. upper 50s this afternoon.


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## cdanderson (May 26, 2007)

Well folks, it is cold up here in the NW part of SC too. Got off to a good start with dandelion, henbit, red maple. Now the maple is all bloomed out and it is too cold to fly. I have a few new packages on drawn comb that I am feeding internal. 

For those of you who have a lot of years of experience, what is your opinion on the effect of several days of freezing weather on the red maple? Assuming the blooms are not killed, once it warms up how many days do you think it is before their is good nectar to collect.


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## sfisher (Sep 22, 2009)

Looks like warm weather will be here for good, starting Sunday.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

sfisher said:


> Looks like warm weather will be here for good, starting Sunday.


Left Florida yesterday, Sure hope warm weather will find Kentucky soon.

cchoganjr


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

sqkcrk said:


> I know a guy who has been a beekeeper about 60 years. Cleo knows him too. .


Mark..Yes a GREAT guy. We have been having breakfast each morning at a little "hole in the wall" restaurant in Moore Haven. I love talking to him. Lots of interesting stories. I will miss them. Left Florida yesterday for Kentucky. 

cchoganjr


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## BeehindtheHive (Apr 29, 2010)

I think everyone around me is tired of this cold weather repeatedly dipping down here and lingering. Since the heavy rains it's been hitting the low 30's and tagging the upper 20's at night here in central SC. The daytime has been hanging out in the 50's. The bees have been active since getting out after the rains, though. Along with peaches, other trees, and weeds, the holly is bloom. This means our first noticeable nectar flow is underway. So, the girls are out busily gathering nectar while the sun shines. Jessamine is also abloom, but there is so much else that they find more attractive blooming at the same time that I've never seen a honey bee partaking of it.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

It may have been (and will again be) cold but it doesn't seem to have slowed the bees. I'm seeing loads of swarm cells.....and a few already flew the coop.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

SC Blues no longer! Hi today of 65 & supposed to be remain that warm & warmer for the next 10 days. Checked the hives and did some slits. Nectar and pollen are both coming on..... Finally!


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