# experience with horizontal langstroths?



## applesrus (Mar 20, 2012)

We're in our first season of beekeeping with two new nucs in langstroth hives, a mix of foundation/foundationless, all mediums. We are commercial orchardists and really enjoying the bees, we'd like to grow beyond two hives eventually. 

I am interested in top bar hives but don't really want to get multiple systems going as I like the idea of interchangeability of frames. Also, being in Canada I am concerned about overwintering in a TBH. I have a good supply of deeps and deep frames that I was planning on cutting all down to mediums but would be alot easier to convert to horizontal deep hives....

I am hoping people running horizontal langs with foundationless could share their experiences in general. And specifically for wintering if the frames can be moved to a traditional vertical langstroth...or other ideas to this effect? Surely the bees would adjust from moving horizontally to vertically??

A horizontal langstroth seems like a good option to combine the benefits of TBH with langstroth equipment (and ideally the ability to move frames around as needed). 

Your thoughts and experiences are most appreciated,


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## geebob (Apr 4, 2011)

Not much experience for me, unfortunately. I've started one this year and it is doing very well. It is great to work and the bees don't seem to mind at all. I'm going to convert one of our splits into another horizontal hive in the next week or two.


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## Skinner Apiaries (Sep 1, 2009)

Keeping it deeper would be better for all that cold I would presume. Bees work up was the rule I was taught.


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## applesrus (Mar 20, 2012)

my thinking was horizontal for the spring/summer/fall to work it like a topbar hive (with foundationless frames) and then adjust the frames to a vertical lang in the fall preparations for winter. I have more than enough extra supers right now to do this however am curious if it's just an overly complicated or confusing way of managing the hive.


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## geebob (Apr 4, 2011)

I'm not sure that vertical is necessarily better for Winter, as long as the brood is moved to one side of the honey stores, as in a TBH. Again, I will see what my experience is this Winter.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

I have two "long" langs, not quite as long as a normal long lang, mine hold 22 frames. Some foundation built combs, and some natural.

The reason I have them is for part of my queen raising method but the rest of the year they function as normal hives. My experience is they do not do as well, particularly in winter, as a verticle hive. At least they wouldn't without a bit of intervention from me.

However the concept of a long lang, has to be pretty much as good as a TBH. The combs can be natural so no issues there if it's what people want. The fact the combs are in a frame mean a larger then typical TBH comb can be built and still be very easy for the beekeeper to handle. That's quite an advantage as most TBH's are too small to allow a decent honey crop.

However, I'm not advocating long langs. The advantage of them is they can be at a hight where the keeper can examine the whole hive without bending over or doing any heavy lifting. That is a plus for people who otherwise may be physically unable to keep bees. But the raised long lang design is more for the convenience of the beekeeper, and less for the bees.


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## applesrus (Mar 20, 2012)

Thanks everyone - just found these posts - not sure why they didn't appear when I searched prior to posting, guess I didn't know the right terms 

http://www.beesource.com/resources/elements-of-beekeeping/alternative-hive-designs/urban-bee-condo-long-hive/
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?205195-Horizontal-Hives


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

I built mine based on Dennis Murrel plans.. Though I built it a couple years ago, it hasn't been used yet. Next weekend I'll have a hive to move into it.

Wayne


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

I built this to use as a mating nuc condo, but laid it out so the dividers can be removed to house three colonies with a second box on top. Solid top to keep out the rain. 










With mini tops and feeding holes for mating nucs:









With lang box's-of course you can stack then as high as you want. Just keep them all the same height so the solid top will work. I don't know how you would do it with seperate tops. They would surley leak on the seam.










Plywood top- it is NOT heavy -sealed well with spar urethane:









With rubber mat-now it has some weight. I Only use the mat for overwintering:









Bottom is made out of 1 1/2" cedar decking for deep hive body insulation..I never lift the bottom box of a hive so why not a big insulated combo? It's the top box's I need to get into regularly. Box's above can be regular langs. With queen excluders, perhaps the bees from all three colonies can mingle above to feed and equalize??Going to use it soon for queens and then the overwintering try.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Beautiful piece of work Lauri, look forward to seeing how that goes once the bees are in!


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## applesrus (Mar 20, 2012)

WOW! Nice work. 

Hope it works awesome for you, please do post back your findings!


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## applesrus (Mar 20, 2012)

Thanks Wayne for the link to Dennis' page - that looks pretty useful. Hope yours goes well this season.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Here are some of mine:

http://www.bushfarms.com/beeshorizontalhives.htm


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## applesrus (Mar 20, 2012)

Thanks Michael - I got your book for Christmas


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## Paul McCarty (Mar 30, 2011)

This is my second year with them. Best of both worlds. Manage them like a top bar - sort of. Mine are 48" long and hold around 40 frames - though the bees usually only fill them 2/3rds full. I have a closable disk entry on the front and a ventilated floor. I also use an insulated roof. My best hives this year were all in Long Lang Hives.

One other advantage not mentioned is that they do not look like a beehive. I have them scattered all over the county and nobody knows what they are.


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## WesternWilson (Jul 18, 2012)

Lauri, what lovely workmanship!!! How did the horizontal colonies work for you? Am thinking of running a couple next year and would appreciate hearing how they do and what is involved.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

WesternWilson said:


> Lauri, what lovely workmanship!!! How did the horizontal colonies work for you? Am thinking of running a couple next year and would appreciate hearing how they do and what is involved.


This unit worked really well as a queen castle. .Virgins had a good return %, but for holding mated queens for a couple weeks until they were sold, without supressing her laying was my favorite use.


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## WesternWilson (Jul 18, 2012)

What were the advantages over holding in nucs?


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## rhaldridge (Dec 17, 2012)

I love these things.










As to wintering, I recently read a book by a Russian beekeeper, who operates in a pretty harsh climate, and who uses a variation on these long hives. The frames are twice as deep, so there is a honey dome above the cluster. This might be the way to go in a harsher climate than mine here in FL.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

What were the advantages over holding in nucs?

None, I built it and therefore had to use it, LOL. Overwintering would be an interesting experiment. I assume it would work fabulously, 9 queens in one box. I'd probably cover the sections with three queen excluders and let them mingle on fortified sugar bricks over the top. Some queens would be abandoned in favor of others that were more appealing though> That's just typical of multiple colonies in one box. Jumping ship I call it.... 

I just have been so busy, I haven't taken the time to try it. My bees have grown much faster and larger than I planned or anticipated. I'm just trying to keep up with the equipment to accommodate them.


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## Kamon A. Reynolds (Apr 15, 2012)

The two biggest things I have found with a long hive, is that you need to make sure they are moving down the box properly (sometimes place empty combs in the center of the brood nest to retard swarming and that you must place the bees at one end and have the stores set up with no gaps in the fall. 

I think it is a good way to keep bees. Though I only have 1 hive like that out of 91 langs.


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## MattDavey (Dec 16, 2011)

Put the Broodnest up against one end before winter, they move in one direction.

Open the sides of the Broodnest in early Spring. http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?290784-Opening-the-Sides-of-the-Broodnest

Keep ventilation vertical, having both bottom and top entrances at each end.

Have it at a comfortable height so you can touch the top of the frames without bending over.

Make it so you can super it, with multiple lids. 

I'm currently trying a PVC sheet, carpet protector, to cover the lids. (Needs to be held down.)


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## Paul McCarty (Mar 30, 2011)

One winter I added a food chamber above the brood-nest. It can be done just like a Lang.


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## Brennonb2 (Dec 12, 2014)

Lauri-Do you have plans for this? I like the nuc/queen mating bank idea.


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## GregSkip (Aug 1, 2014)

Paul

Off topic but, I lived in Alamogordo for five years, loved it!


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