# Help: extending my top bar hive--woodworking question



## EarlyBird (Aug 16, 2014)

I decided after a lot of reading and advice from several kind folks here, that my little 34" long TBH was not going to make me a happy new beek. For those of you who don't know, I don't have bees yet; planning to start in the spring.

I got this hive on Craigslist, not knowing any better. So now I want to extend it a foot or so.

I pulled the screws, and hand-sawed through the glued joints on the back of the hive. Probably cannot reuse the back board--it will be undersized now.

But worse than that is that I realized these boards are not standard dimension. They are 7/8" as you can see in the pictures. What should I do about this? All the wood I see for sale is 3/4". How would you suggest I go about the joining the two sizes? Seems I need to keep the inside dimensions consistent so the follower boards will still be ok to use along the entire length. Is that even an option? Not sure if I can find 7/8" board.


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## EarlyBird (Aug 16, 2014)

Capital City lumber has 7/8" in rough-one-side cedar. Nothing that thick in pine. I suppose I can mix woods...


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## bjamesvw (Apr 17, 2014)

I would definitely keep the interior dimensions the same so you can move comb around. The outside dimensions don't really matter, it might just not look at pretty. Would it be easier to start over and leave this smaller hive for a swarm or split? It's always handy to have spare hive laying around.


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## EarlyBird (Aug 16, 2014)

I've already cut the end off and after that, it won't fit the followers if I try to put it back together (will be too narrow.) I spent some time, getting a tight fit on the followers.

Yes, it would have been easier to hang onto this little hive for a swarm or split or some "second hive." But I am very tight on storage space, and really, just want one hive for now to try out this bee stuff. I'll no doubt have a better idea of what I'm doing after the first year. If I decide to stick with it, I will probably then design a hive to meet my needs, and maybe make two of them the same. Not worth trying to share top bars with this one; they are only 14 1/2" end to end.

Turns out, Capitol City didn't have 7/8" after all, not in any boards. I just bought a 3/4" pine board. Will have to figure out how to join them. I have a dowel jig. Outside won't look pretty. Too bad.


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## EarlyBird (Aug 16, 2014)

*Re: Help: extending my top bar hive*

For anyone still reading, the original inside dimensions of this hive:

Length 34"
Top width: 12 3/4"
Bottom width: 8 5/8"
Height: 8 7/8"
Angle of sides: 77 degrees. I think that is roughly the angle for a "Hardisan" hive, but this one is clearly smaller than he recommends.

That made a total volume of 3225 cubic inches, or a bit under 53 liters. One source I read said that was middle of the "desired" range. Most other sources say that is way too small.

I plan to extend the inside length from 34" to 48", giving a new volume of 4553 cubic inches, or about 74.6 liters.

To calculate the volume: (bottom width + top width) x height x length x 1/2


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## Delta Bay (Dec 4, 2009)

*Re: Help: extending my top bar hive*

The volume is important but the size of each comb is equally as important for the bees to organize the winter nest on fewer combs and for swarm control. I have several 34" hives but the area of each individual comb is a fair bit large than what you have. You also should rethink having an extra hive on hand as you are really limiting your management options running one colony with only the box they live in on hand.


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## JakeDatc (Apr 19, 2010)

*Re: Help: extending my top bar hive*

I agree it is probably easier to build a new one that is longer and wider .. 12" top width is very small. 

we made ours off the BioBees plans.. 4' long 18" top width and 6-8" bottom width. no follower boards. never found a need.


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

*Re: Help: extending my top bar hive*

Look at thicker boards. Boards are listed in 1/4” increments in the lumber store (4/4 is ‘four quarter’ and will be 1 1/16”). Hardwood boards finished are 7/8” while softwood boards are finished to ¾”. 
Bottom line, go to a hardwood (which is anything with leaves not really hard) cold be bass wood, poplar or like), or go ‘rough cut”. Both will get you the thickness you need.


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## EarlyBird (Aug 16, 2014)

*Re: Help: extending my top bar hive*

Well, right now I'm ironing veneer strips onto the edges of the back board that I sawed out, so that it will fit back in its original place, if that is what I decide to do, vs. trying to extend the hive.

Thanks for the info on the hardwood boards. I didn't know that. However, even at a large, non-big-box lumber yard over here, they claimed not to have anything in 7/8".


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

*Re: Help: extending my top bar hive*

No offense, but the primary value in that TBH is the top bars. You can make a new appropriately sized TBH with just a few inexpensive boards quite quickly. See multiple photos and text on this page from Michael Bush:

http://www.bushfarms.com/beestopbarhives.htm

Use the same approach to put an end back on the TBH that you already cut apart. I'd cut it down some more to make a TBH nuc/swarm trap size.


Also, even though you are just learning, I strongly recommend that you plan to have _two _hives (with bees) that are built to use the same size bars/comb. Your education will likely be more satisfying.


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## EarlyBird (Aug 16, 2014)

*Re: Help: extending my top bar hive*



Rader Sidetrack said:


> No offense, but the primary value in that TBH is the top bars. You can make a new appropriately sized TBH with just a few inexpensive boards quite quickly.
> 
> (...)
> 
> ...


Certainly no offense taken. Thanks for the advice. The first comment about the primary value, I don't understand. The top bars in this hive are very short: just 12 3/4" on the inside. Most I've seen are several inches longer. Are you suggesting that I create another hive which can reuse the same short bars?

The bars were easy to make, if not a little tedious. The hive came with an incomplete set. I modified them to use triangular guides, and made some 1 1/2" comb bars to go along with the 1 3/8" bars it came with. I just figured the next hive would be bigger, with longer bars. Maybe even bars which could fit a Lang.

The back board is sized to go back in place now. I won't glue it in case I want to resize again. But one hitch in any plan to shorten this hive is the inset glass observation window in one side. I have follower boards. They can be used to shorten it further if needed.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

*Re: Help: extending my top bar hive*

Those bars are a bit smaller than I made mine, but they don't seem excessively short. Some people seem to have difficulty making bars with comb guides, particularly triangular guides. So if bars were difficult/time consuming to make, then that was the perspective for my 'value' comment.

If bars w/guides are easy for you to make, then making two new longer TBHs with somewhat wider bars is what I'd suggest.

When I built my TBHs, I put on legs that seemed perfectly appropriate for the TBH. What I failed to appreciate was just how heavy that TBH would be once full of bees/comb/honey. When two of the legs warped due to weather exposure and threatened the stability of the hive, I was shocked at how heavy it was, and the consequential difficulty of dealing with the leg problem. Given my experience with that, splicing the cut TBH with an extension seems like a potential problem to me.


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## EarlyBird (Aug 16, 2014)

*Re: Help: extending my top bar hive*



Rader Sidetrack said:


> Those bars are a bit smaller than I made mine, but they don't seem excessively short. Some people seem to have difficulty making bars with comb guides, particularly triangular guides. So if bars were difficult/time consuming to make, then that was the perspective for my 'value' comment.


Ok, so they are -not- too short? Just not ideal? The concern is swarming--the only reason I was going to extend the hive. So of I don't extend this hive, it gets stored for some unforeseen bee event? I've never seen a feral bee swarm. I doubt I ever will. So would I save this hive in case my other hive swarms? It would not be good for a split since the bars would not be interchangeable. 



> If bars w/guides are easy for you to make, then making two new longer TBHs with somewhat wider bars is what I'd suggest.


That's, what, 50-60 bars or so? Easy to make, but tedious. They do take time. Two more larger ones? I'll not get the car back into the garage at this rate. (I know: the hives will be outside. But I need to find a place for ONE first. I have shade everywhere, which won't help with SHB.)

How much do those observation windows get used? Is that a beginner-only kind of thing? That inset glass is by far the most difficult part of building one of these things. The idea of building two more wouldn't seem so bad if I don't need the windows.



> Given my experience with that, splicing the cut TBH with an extension seems like a potential problem to me.


That I had not thought of (weight/stability of the splice). Guess I just figured the bottom board supported it all.


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## blamb61 (Apr 24, 2014)

*Re: Help: extending my top bar hive*

This may be common knowledge, but in case it isn't, wooden stakes at home depot etc are 1 3/8" inch wide and about 1/16th thicker than a langstroth frame. They can be cut to length. 15 for about $5.


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