# Preventing inbreeding



## yankeeboy (Feb 24, 2016)

I'm beginning research for grafting and queen rearing. I have not found much info on how to keep the gene pool fresh, other than bringing in new queens. Do queen rearing books touch on this topic much? Specifically number of queens to graft from/distribute per apiary.

What kind of ratios do you try to maintain to keep the genes from overlapping too much, or how often do you bring in new stock? 

My thoughts- i have for example, 10 hives. Should I graft 10 queens from all 10 ( 1/ea) barring they are acceptable queens? Is grafting 10 queens from 1 hive creating a shallow pool in this small apiary?

Not considering neighboring or feral stock.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

And what kind of records are you keeping on these supposed 10 colonies?


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## yankeeboy (Feb 24, 2016)

I have records on the origin and activity throughout the year. I actually tried to mimic your duct tape on the outer cover method. Noted brood pattern, size, swarms, stores, manipulations and such.

Besides my fading sharpie writing, this worked pretty well. With plans to grow my numbers, I will certainly need to be more thorough to keep track of the genetics.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

I wouldn't worry about it, you're not controlling the mating. A lot of people use cycles... graft from the best 2-3 on year, pick a different 2-3 the next.


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## yankeeboy (Feb 24, 2016)

In this small scale example, yes i'm not overly worried on inbreeding. But my underlying quest for understanding is when i were to reach greater numbers.

If I had 100 hives, would you still recommend 2-3?

Although currently a hobbyist, i'd like to use methods as if I were in a larger scale. I would like to turn into full time business someday.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

When you get bigger it simply becomes a matter of what you're looking for in your hives. Again, 2-3 breeders would be ok, but it just depends on how big how fast you get there. For example, if you go from 10-100 in one year using 2-3 breeders, that's 30 each. If you do it in two years, now it's 4-6 different breeders at 15 each etc... So the slower you go, the more diversity you maintain. If you look at the frequency of allele combinations, the equation for chance of homozygosity over time roughly breaks down to 2^n - 1/2^n, where n represents the number of selfing cycles. This of course is the sum of homozygosity, so if you have a line that is Aa, the homozygotes are AA and aa, each represented equally. For bees, the important loci is the sex determining loci which is represented by 16-18 alleles, where any two different allele combination leads to a female offspring, if the same alleles are present, it's a diploid drone which is destroyed. So, now the equation becomes a little modified depending on the frequency and numbers of alleles represented in the sperm the queen is carrying and the two alleles she passes on in her eggs.


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## mike17l (Jun 22, 2012)

Considering random drones will contribute half of the genetic information of the colony, you have nothing to be concerned about. Graft from the best you have.


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## jcase (Jul 30, 2016)

Unless you are doing controlled matings, such as II or flooding DCAs with your drones, or live in an area with no ferals and no other beekeepers you are unlikely to have major inbreeding issues.


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## yankeeboy (Feb 24, 2016)

:thumbsup: Thanks all


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Inbreeding isn't as easy as you might think. If you really wan to maintain each colony's genetics, make a walk away split from each. You can keep them above the inner cover until the new queen is laying well, and then unite. If you want to keep only 10 colonies. 

You could do the same with a hundred, but I wouldn't. I would choose a couple of the best in each apiary, from your records, and check them for hygienic behavior. Then I would raise cells from those that score highest, and use them to requeen any colonies that needed requeening.

Just a couple options.


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## yankeeboy (Feb 24, 2016)

My spring plans are actually based off some of your posts Michael. Starting with 10 hives, assuming all survive, i would make a queenless cell builder and graft from x number of hives. Then once cells are ready, split all into 4 nucs. Then repeat the process again, turning 10 into 40+. With the mating habits of queens, i agree inbreeding is unlikely. But if i saturate my yard with 30 related out of 40 queens , the thought of inbreeding crossed my mind. Especially if i do the same process the following year.


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## Juhani Lunden (Oct 3, 2013)

I used an isolated mating station from 1995 to 2014 (when bear attack detroyed all) so I had to think about inbreeding somehow. With such a station pedigrees were drawn to all queens. http://perso.unamur.be/~jvandyck/homage/elver/archiv.html#JL 
I once counted the number of breeders I had used, average 8% of all queens were used as breeders, but sistergroups were small. 

Often I had a queen in my hands which was the only representative of her family line. Then I could just take one or two daughters of her to maintain the familyline ay least for couple more years.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Inbreeding isn't as easy as you might think.

Bee biology is on your side. The queen mates with a lot of drones and tends to fly further and higher than the drones. Some inbreeding is bound to take place, but it may not be as much as you expect. I wouldn't worry too much about inbreeding unless you start to get some shotgun brood patterns.


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## eltalia (Jun 12, 2017)

No queen breeder here as such in that I have always generated my own emergency queens. For lines I have always bought in queens in lots, a different breeder in differing locales each year.

I post only to add the direction from an old friend many many years ago.
Being, always raise your queens in random locations to take new drone 
genetics to your queens. 
It cannot be said I have had brilliant bees every time doing this but generally as a mean I have found the colonies generated have reflected 
the characteristics of the queens selected to take eggs from.
I have never gone past one generation.

Bill


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

If you have 3 out yards then rotate the queens around these out yards. Each
out yard should have their own diverse drones when you bring in breeders for each
yard location. In addition to my own local carnis genetics, every year I like to source queens from different and out of state apiaries too.


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## Paska (Jun 15, 2017)

This also was helpful to me. Thank you, guys.


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## Cuttingedgelandinc (Mar 3, 2015)

Weather would also be a factor to consider.
If it is cold or rainy for a while, it would probably be more likely that she may mate with some of her own progeny.


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