# What to do with dropped mite counts



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Before you did the Apivar treatment, did you sample for mites? And then afterwards too?

You can say that your OAV Treatment killed 960 mites. Otherwise, I am not sure what to say.

What if you took samples between OAV treatments?

Whenever I get a Zero mite count in an alcohol wash or ether roll I take another sample.


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## Kcnc1 (Mar 31, 2017)

I checked notes and had a count of 2 per 300 after Apivar. I don’t know the before number. I believe it was 5 or 6. 

If I was to do an alcohol wash between treatments, I would again feel unsure as to what to do with the number. If it’s high, I am treating anyway. So I’m reluctant to kill 300 bees to just get a number. Could you let me know what you would do if you did an alcohol wash and got 10 per 300, or 1 per 300? Would you do something in addition to the ongoing oav?


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

do you have and sealed brood in the hive? I treated a friends hive with oav, had a drop of 1200 mites, retreated a week or so later, had a drop of zero.


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## Dan the bee guy (Jun 18, 2015)

If there is very little or no capped brood then most of the mites were on the bees and OAV got them. I'd treat again in 4 or5 days and check the sticky board again .


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Kcnc1 said:


> I checked notes and had a count of 2 per 300 after Apivar. I don’t know the before number. I believe it was 5 or 6.
> 
> If I was to do an alcohol wash between treatments, I would again feel unsure as to what to do with the number. If it’s high, I am treating anyway. So I’m reluctant to kill 300 bees to just get a number. Could you let me know what you would do if you did an alcohol wash and got 10 per 300, or 1 per 300? Would you do something in addition to the ongoing oav?


 If I got a high count like that I would get an OAV tratment in that hive asap, if I could. Otherwise more Apivar strips. People are saying more strips per frame of bees than usually recommended is now necessary. Unless you suspect Apivar resistance. And then MAQS would be necessary. I don't have much faith in Thymol or Hopguard.


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## Kuro (Jun 18, 2015)

There seems to be no gain by doing alcohol wash at this point, unless you really want to know how the 960 number translate to % infestation. I believe OAV is the best treatment you can do at this time of the year (unless you want to use Apivar again or the temperature is high enough for MAQS). I would continue every 5-day vaporization as you planned and just count dropped mites after each vaporization. You may stop at the 2nd vap if your colony is broodless. Or, you may see significant decrease after 5th vap, if your colony has brood and the treatment is effective.

I do not know about your bees or your climate but here (zone 8) with my not-so-big Carniolan colonies, once I get post-48 hr OAV mite drop down to <10 in December or January, I can hardly detect any mites by sugar roll or 48hr natural drop until mid July.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Most of the people I know treat by the calendar, not by mite counts. Take a yard of 40 or 56 hives and I bet you can get all sorts of ether roll mite counts. 

According to Emma Mullen from Cornell, among the group that the Tech Team has been working with, only about half of the people they work with do mite checks, if I remember what she said a couple days ago. But that more of them say that they will going forward.


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## Kcnc1 (Mar 31, 2017)

Thanks for all the replies and advice.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Check this out 

http://scientificbeekeeping.com/randys-varroa-model/

Might help add perspective


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Reading some of what Ian posted causes me to wonder if Varroa tend to stay in the brood much of the Summer and not very many on the Adult mites. And then, for some reason, close to the end of Summer, perhaps as the queen begins to lay fewer eggs, Varroa attach themselves to Adults as a way of riding out the Winter.

How do Varroa act in their original host? And if their habits have changed, why did they and how?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Late fall being an awesome time to target them through treatment. 
As more of them are exposed


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

That may be so, Ian, but the damaged bees won't last the Winter, so colony losses will still occur. I think there is more to how you maintain such robust hives then what I have gleaned from your Posts.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Oh Ya I agree Mark
Gotta protect that winter nest, and that starts in August. 

What I’m getting at, along with your fall treatment of choice, 
A late fall treatment of OAV helps rotate the treatment mode of action. Just another angle. There are so few of options in this business to manage disease, I think this easy timely treatment as an under appreciated option. 
It cost me $100 and a $600 device (which could of been built for $50). 
Make it $2/ hive and a pharma study behind it, everyone would be doing it


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I'm going to try to get a friend to treat mine. I have a beard and moustache. So the breathing apparatus probably won't fit well. I'd pay someone $2.00 per hive to treat my hives with OAV.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Ya that Vapour is dangerous 
You are wise to take precautions


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

As long as they have little brood, I tell ya it works
Here, listen to this, i get to the point right away...

https://youtu.be/QLUyrmCBIcA


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

sqkcrk said:


> I'm going to try to get a friend to treat mine. I have a beard and moustache. So the breathing apparatus probably won't fit well. I'd pay someone $2.00 per hive to treat my hives with OAV.


you can leave the moustache, and turn the beard into a goo T  ,that's what I had to do, but since the only razor I have is the left overs from my wife's use, It's not high on my list, but worth the hair pulling.


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## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

Ian said:


> Oh Ya I agree Mark
> Gotta protect that winter nest, and that starts in August.
> 
> What I’m getting at, along with your fall treatment of choice,
> ...


$700/1500hives is 50 cents unless adding $1.50 for labor. Assumes buying a new 110 every year.

If the 110 last two seasons, them $800/3000 hives is 27 cents plus labor.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

My last worker leaves mid November whenever the odd jobs are cleaned up. 
End of the season Is kinda idle time, 
Would you not account this time as recaptured labour cost? It’s how I look at it. The idle time in the fall to round out the work season might as well be kept busy. 
My treatment labour cost is zero


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

And factoring the cost of the device over the treated hives should be over a few years. My expected life on this device is probably 3-5 years..? Pretty simple device. A few bucks would replace any piece needed replacing if broke.


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