# Some people just do not understand......



## Jesus_the_only_way (Mar 17, 2006)

Hey if they want to eat crappy honey let em'
You know what you have is top quality and it deserves to
bring top dollar. Forget about those people Chef.
Tom


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

this really does piss me off. Here is one of the replies:

"I really do not appreciate you cursing at me. But rather you ask me why I want to charge what I charge, I would have explained it to you. 

According to Bee Culture and American Bee Jornal, two respected publications from Beekeepers, area 12, which would include Washington State, 1 pound of honey retails for $5.20. 60 pound lots retail run $133.00.

So PLEASE.... do not even tell me that I charge a lot for my honey. 

You are the ignorant one that does not know supply and demand nor do you do the research for honey pricing nor even have the guts to ask me, honestly, without cursing, as to why I charge what I do. 

Next time, just ask. Thats all you have to do. "

I do not understand who people do not grasp supply and demand. Or why people have to curse and not just honestly ask me why I charge for what I charge. 

Or even do the freakin research. 

I am sorry but what I charge is actually below what the market reports are in ABJ and BC. 

rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.......................


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

his reply:

"Well you condenscending honey affected moron. it looks as though you stooped
anyway and tripped over yourself. I don't plan on dying anytime soon either
no matter what I eat. My father has lived to a ripe old age of 87 eating the
same store bought honey he has chosen with zero ill effects unlike you like
to try and imply. No sir, your bidding and your honey are not any sort of
redemption considering your prices. What you appear to be is a scheister,
and they do come in all forms such as yourself. In america, we try better to
treat our own kind with respect, not with skullduggery that you are trying
to pull. Maybe if that honey you make is so special, you should mention what
goes on to bring it about in your selling advertisements rather than expect
the unknowing and ignorant to just believe something is special because your
prices are so outrageous. I will also have you know I do know quite alot
about beekeeping and what it takes to work and smoke hives. what you speak
of is nothing that special. you really do feel above the regular public,
don't you?
people sell out of product these days because a sucker is born every minute,
what a convnience that must be for you! take your holier than thou honey and
prices and shove them is the point that you have not yet recieved. over 275
million pounds of honey entered the united states last year alone. Last time
I did my hives, I don't think in 55 years we have ever used chemicals
whatsoever. So who the hell are you? no chemicals - you sir are a scheister."


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

another message:

"listen dummy. I know pretty much all I need to know about honey prices and
you are simply crazy. maybe you think you are special selling out each year
but that does not make your prices or you for that matter correct in any
way. your prices are stupid high and you know it. my original point was you
are a thief - a ******* thief. there is no doubt you are a scamming artist
in the culture of the honey world. your prices are over the top. period. I
kow all the local honey suppliers around here and your whacked. yuo better
stop while you are behind."


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

another reply:

"All you beekeepers are ******* crooks"


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## russbee (Mar 6, 2007)

People are funny. I was charging $4 per pound and was told by the people buying that i should be charging more.


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## xC0000005 (Nov 17, 2004)

Chef - I'd just put the guy on block. I charge more than you for 10 ounces of honey and sell with ease. You just got a bad apple. And if you want to feed the spam bots, do it right -
.


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## Barry Digman (May 21, 2003)

The personal email addresses need to be deleted.


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## LEAD PIPE (May 22, 2005)

I just harvested 4 med supers and can say you guys don't charge enough. for your honey. I am glad I only have 2 hives. This is my 3rd year and the first time I got any honey. Now I have more than I can eat in a lifetime. I still have a lot of honey on the hives. I am NOT looking forward to the next harvest day.


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

Some people just prove their irrelevance. Who cares what they say, especially if they talk like that.


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

I would have asked what he needed you top quality, expensive honey for if he knew all these local growers anyway? Go buy from them already....Or off of China from the store shelf.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

He'll get over it. You'll get over it. It's a free country and you can ask whatever you like for whatever you have for sale. Don't lose any sleep over him.

Are you selling your honey? Then you have it priced just fine. 

Of course, there is a difference in the price I get per pound for a five gallon bucket and the price I get for a pint jar.


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## Cyndi (Apr 26, 2005)

Hey Chef,

I think you should send him an email back reflecting your new pricing for having to put up with difficult people.....like charge him $9 per pound and add $1 for every curse word, 

For what it's worth...I don't know how many pounds this is....but there's a lady in my area that charges $18 for a quart jar of Sourwood Honey....and people buy it. 

Now, if I could just get them to understand this concept about the beeswax candles, I'd be doing really good.


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## kc in wv (Feb 1, 2006)

I would send him a thank you note for not doing business with you and forget about him.T here are too many good customers out there to worry about ones like him.

I take drinking straws and cut them in half. I then let potential customers dip the straw into a sample bottle and taste the honey. No one has ever complained about my prices after they taste it.


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## roger lee (Jun 8, 2007)

This guy must really care about honey to go out of his way to be so mean. I think he should be taking medication not honey....He belongs in a padded room.


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## Beaches' Bee-Haven Apiary (May 22, 2007)

The e-mails made me laugh. The guy clearly doesn't no what he's talking about. Just block his abusive e-mails and go right on selling your honey at the good price your giving your customers. I sell mine at $6.50 a pint (about 22oz.) and I know a beek in this area who sells his for $8.00 a pint! both those prices are over the average quoted in Bee Culture. As the general public gets more educated on the importance of honey bees and the healthiness of honey, they'll be more than willing to pay top dollar for it. And kc in wv is right about the customers tasting the honey. I sent my trumpet away to a guy in Iowa to have fixed, and than sent him half a pint of honey as a thank-you gift. He said that he and his wife loved it and it was better than any local honey around his area. I just sold and sent him two pints yesterday.

-Nathanael


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

Chef Isaac . . .

You need a PRICE INCREASE!

Sell the BEST and get paid "the best".


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

I just do not understand him. I sent him the information from ABJ and BC on pricing in our region. 

I am not upset at this point (the next morning). It did make me mad but that is the beuity about being a consumer.... you can shop around and have choices. For us, we do not produce a lot of honey and there are associated costs with beekeeping so I do feel confident about what I charge. 

It is just frusterating.


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

I have been respectfully asked to remove his email and as I do respect the responsabilties of the moderators and thank them and Barry for prodiving such a wonderful place to talk and learn, I would have to respectfully disagree since we all talk freely about supply companies and companies providing beekeeping and honey products. We all do have right to voice our opinion and as others warn others about companies, companies do have the right to warn others about potentially problamatic customers. 

This is my opinion.

However, since I do respect the moderators, and the person in particular that asked me to remove it, I did at my own free will.


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

>It is just frusterating . . .

There are "more good customers" than you have honey to sell, go find TWO good customers to relpace this poor one


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## R.L. Bee (Mar 8, 2006)

*Let him eat that China honey*

This brings to light another point someone mentioned, the honey from China. If they are loading there farm raised fish down with illegal antibiotics just think what they are doing do to there bees. As my dad always said this guys so tight he wouldn't give a nickel to see a piss ant eat a bale of hay.Or he's just one of the many out ther that is mad with the world,and he just picked you to bad mouth.Just let the poor lost soul eat that china honey maybe it will put him out of his missery a little quicker.


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## knadai (Jun 24, 2007)

*All is well.*

*HE* "knows lots of local growers" and can go somewhere else buy the quality of honey he wants at whatever price he can find it.   The system works.

*YOU* can keep selling your honey knowing your customers "vote" with their dollars on the price and quality of your product. 

*I* enjoyed the thread! It's always interesting when people go ballistic. 

What fun!


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## Michigan Hobby (Feb 24, 2005)

Another thought. Remember that the prices I see some are quoting from ABJ and Bee Culture are AVERAGES. Averages mean just that. Some are higher and some are lower. Some of us who produce GREAT honey tend to move the average price up. There is nothing wrong with that. Don't keep beating yourself up because you are are selling your honey for more than the average price for your region.


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## Hillside (Jul 12, 2004)

You've got to just let this kind of stuff go. There are some angry people out there. They're much better at being nasty than you are, so don't take their bait. Just leave them alone or they'll bite you. 

Any time you're dealing with customers, you find one of these people now and then. My guess is that they have some kind of emotional or mental disease. Twice now, in my greenhouse business, I've had to ask a customer to leave and never come back.


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## Barry Digman (May 21, 2003)

R.L. Bee said:


> This brings to light another point someone mentioned, the honey from China. If they are loading there farm raised fish down with illegal antibiotics just think what they are doing do to there bees. As my dad always said this guys so tight he wouldn't give a nickel to see a piss ant eat a bale of hay.Or he's just one of the many out ther that is mad with the world,and he just picked you to bad mouth.Just let the poor lost soul eat that china honey maybe it will put him out of his missery a little quicker.


He probably doesn't have any idea where his "store-bought" honey was produced. If more people would pressure their useless representatives to implement country of origin labeling, we'd know what we're eating and where it was produced. For some reason (money????) our gubmint refuses to require the food we eat to be labeled properly. C.O.O.L. would provide consumers with the information they need in order to choose between local products and stuff from heaven knows where. Americans *WILL* opt for honey produced in the US over foreign honey *IF* they know what's in the bottle. Right now, they really don't.

http://www.ams.usda.gov/cool/

"On May 13, 2002, President Bush signed into law the Farm Security and Rural Investment Act of 2002, more commonly known as the 2002 Farm Bill. One of its many initiatives requires country of origin labeling for beef, lamb, pork, fish, perishable agricultural commodities and peanuts. On January 27, 2004, President Bush signed Public Law 108-199 which delays the implementation of mandatory COOL for all covered commodities except wild and farm-raised fish and shellfish until September 30, 2006. On November 10, 2005, President Bush signed Public Law 109-97, which delays the implementation for all covered commodities except wild and farm-raised and shellfish until September 30, 2008. As described in the legislation, program implementation is the responsibility of USDA's Agricultural Marketing Service."


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## Meadow Stone Farm (May 4, 2005)

*difficult customers*

i don't sell honey, but do sell very expensive milk and cheese. we get the odd customer that comes in and blows up about the price. it used to bother me, i was worried they'd go out and bad mouth us. now, 3 years later, i really could care less. the price is what it is, we don't make much money off the farm and people can drive up and see the care/work that goes into the place and value that very much (local is the new organic).

anyway, don't lose sleep over it. he won't be the last jerk you meet, but it will be balanced out by the great customers you build up. we have some restaurants now that take as much cheese as i can provide and don't even ask what it costs. i'm fair on the price and they get something local and very unique.


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## peggjam (Mar 4, 2005)

Makes me wonder why he put so much effort into being mean. Maybe he really wants your honey, but just doesn't want to pay the price.

The number of local producers he knows you can count on one finger, I find people with that mentality really are dumb.


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## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

Lots of people wish they could "make an offer" and get what they
want to buy for less than the price tag.

Why be angry at someone who inquires as to your price, and 
then declines to buy? Did you NEED their business?

Yes, it takes a thick skin, but someone clearly set a price point
that I find hard to imagine. Seriously, a single 5-gallon pail for
about $1 a pound?

More likely the guy was fishing around for someone dumb enough
to sell at ANY price. That's his problem, not yours.


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## Tommy (Oct 9, 2005)

If he could buy it for a dollar a pound, then he would resell it for 5.00 pound. What a profit! LOL


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## dcross (Jan 20, 2003)

A few years ago, an old-timer told me that anyone charging more than $1/pound was "taking advantage of people".

I asked him how many hives he had, he said "Never more than 12, it's just too much work."

He had one or two hives and NO honey for sale when we had the conversation.


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## Barry Digman (May 21, 2003)

Never put your price on another man's horse, and never let another man put his price on yours.


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## mistergil (May 24, 2007)

Some people don't care what they put into their bodies. Chemical laced, water or corn syrup added honey from out of the country down to GMO grocery items. I'm not interested in eating a salad with tomatoes with flounder genes or roundup ready corn flakes with growth hormone added milk. Times are changing and people are being more careful and they're willing to pay for known quality organic, locally produced products. That is the trade off, you still get what you pay for, pay a little get a little. Quality will always sell and demand top dollar to boot. Hey if my honey is too high priced for you, go buy some Karo syrup and use that.


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## shawnwri (Jul 31, 2006)

*Quality is like oats*

If you want nice clean oats they will cost you. If you are willing to settle for oats that have been through the horse, they are a little cheaper.


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## Ruben (Feb 11, 2006)

Unfortunatly working in the auto repair industry I have to deal with about 10 people a day like that guy, which has me wanting to retire and take up beekeeping for a living. At least before I read your post Chef


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

Sorry to crush your dreams Ruben!


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## ottebee (Jan 31, 2007)

Auto repair industry? Honey sales? That's nothing.... I'm a public school teacher. At least you are exchanging emails. . . we get them storming in the school with ball bats. Don't lose any sleep over it. . . matter of fact . . say a little prayer for him tonight. . . that'll take the edge off. Oh . . . and I coach too. Maybe say a little prayer for me please.


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## berkshire bee (Jan 28, 2007)

Lead Pipe, Chef can give you some good customer leads if you want to sell your surplus.(;

Chef, People here line up to pay $6/lb for pure raw unheated honey. The problem in dealing with the public is that some people are simply psycho. Maybe if you reply with something like: "Thank you for your kind and constructive criticism. I will keep your suggestions in mind when I set my prices in the future." they will be speechless, but there's also the chance that it will p**s them off more because you won't argue with them or lower yourself to their level.


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## LEAD PIPE (May 22, 2005)

lol, No thank you. I deal with enough of them at work. I would give the honey back to the bees before I give it to that guy.


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## Ruben (Feb 11, 2006)

>Auto repair industry? Honey sales? That's nothing.... I'm a public school teacher. At least you are exchanging emails. . . we get them storming in the school with ball bats. Don't lose any sleep over it. . . matter of fact . . say a little prayer for him tonight. . . that'll take the edge off. Oh . . . and I coach too. Maybe say a little prayer for me please. 


No e-mail exchanges in the auto repair all face to face and phone calls, and the one thing that could be worse than having to deal with the school like you is to have to deal with my wife and the whole school deal as she is like you and is also the head track coach.


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## tarheit (Mar 26, 2003)

I get a few that complain about my high price, or how they've been getting it dirt cheap elsewhere. Talking about quality obviously won't make a difference when $ seems their only concern. I simply tell them they found a great price and I'm not interested in changing mine because I sell out every year already, and honestly I probably sell it too cheap already.

-Tim


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## JC (Jun 3, 2006)

*Analysis of Pricing*

Stick to your prices; if you do anything, raise your prices. Anyone can sell at a discount. It takes a real salesman to sell at the "regular" price. The following is a memo that I wrote:

The marketing department is recommending that we lower our prices by 10%. Our product elasticity has a coefficient of 2.5. A 1% change in price will generate a 2.5% change in quantity demanded. If we reduce our prices by 10%, we can expect an increase in sales of 25%. Total Revenue will also increase. 

The factors that influence our customers’ reactions to price changes are:
1.	Low-priced goods. Spending on low-priced goods is almost independent of their prices.
2.	Income levels. Poor people are more sensitive to price changes than poor people.
3.	Substitute goods. Demand for our products depends on the availability and closeness of substitute products.
4.	Basic goods. People are not very sensitive to price increases or decreases in such staple items like milk or eggs.
5.	Linked goods. Shoes and shoelaces are an example of complementary goods. People are not very sensitive to price increases in shoelaces. If prices increased, people will not stop wearing shoelaces.
6.	Time to adjust. The more time that we have to adjust, the more prices sensitive we are.


Our general manager has a legitimate concern. He worries that a price reduction of 10% will lead to a reduction in profit. An increase of 25% in total revenues may or may not increase our profit. We do know that we will have to sell more products to break even. I will prepare break-even analysis for the regular price and discounted price. I am asking the finance department to supply me with total costs, fixed costs and variable costs to help me in preparing my analysis. I am also asking the finance department to determine our average variable cost. If the discounted price will not cover our average variable cost, we will not lower our prices by 10%


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## jgd (Oct 4, 2003)

Chef,
I once saw a sign in a hardware store that impressed me most profoundly.

"I have no quarrel with the propietor that sells his ware for less.
for he is in a far better place to know what his ware is worth.


jd


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## busybguy (Apr 28, 2005)

*nasties*

I have been a beek since 1999 and have only run across two nasties. One, a man, said he could buy the same size jug for half my price at another source. I told him that's where he could go then because I wouldn't want him to lose sleep knowing that I screwed him by overcharging. The other one, a lady (?) argued with me that I HAD to have chemical residue in my honey because you HAVE to use chemicals for various things. I do not use chemicals.
I told her she would not have to worry about it because I wouldn't sell her any. She insisted on purchasing a bottle after that but I didn't let her have any. I HAVE NOT BEEN BOTHERED BY EITHER OF THEM SINCE.


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## Barry Digman (May 21, 2003)

On the other hand, my father always said he never met a man he disliked to the point that he wouldn't take his money...


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## Dan Williamson (Apr 6, 2004)

There is a guy that sells honey for $2 a pound in Northwest Indiana. When I have people stop by my table some will say... wow... you are charging alot. ($4/lb).

I explain that this is market price and that I sell out every year. If they like the honey that they are getting for cheaper than please stick with what they enjoy.

I've never had someone walk away without buying at least 1 lb.

(Now if they ever saw the other guys honey house they might be willing to pay alot more than $4/lb for MY honey. Of course I never say that.)

Don't sweat it. Personally I would have just said to him that if he likes the honey he is getting for cheaper than stay with it. End of discussion.

Its pointless with some to explain and a complete waste of your time.

I had a guy at my work say to me... why should I buy your honey when I can get it cheaper eslewhere. I looked at him and said... "Don't buy my honey! Stay with the cheap foreign pasturized stuff. I sell to people that want local, unpasturized honey."

He now buys all of his honey from me.


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## Hobie (Jun 1, 2006)

Some people just deserve to have their emails shuttled directly to the trash bin. After the first one, I would have replied "Sorry, due to recent events, my honey is no longer available." To that person, anyway. And I would not have read another reply. 

The world is full of morons, and one can only try to get through life encountering as few as possible.


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## bjerm2 (Jun 9, 2004)

Do we all really need to hash this out again? Look at all the 'recalls' of dog food, tooth past, antibiotics in food or......
Heck you could sell them honey for 20 cents a lbs loaded with pesticides, antibiotics, and a nice topping of antifrees to make it all worth whilde.
You get what you pay for and sometimes a little more!
Dan


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## Mabe (Mar 22, 2005)

Hey Chef,

I can tell you are a sensitive guy and that you've taken this lout's comments personally. Remember the 80% rule? In this case I like to think that 80% of the time people are wonderful. Best policy is to be polite and nothing more to the other 20%. Sometimes they are so surprised that you are treating them politely that they change their ways. Doubt that would happen with this fellow though! Mabe


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## JC (Jun 3, 2006)

Price has nothing to do with your cost of production. Price is relative. You could be selling your honey below your cost; however, if your price is higher than the next guy, then your price will be "too high." The secret is to differentiate your honey from the competition. I get $10/lb. for my honey.


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## ScadsOBees (Oct 2, 2003)

How about "Sorry, I've been selling out too quickly, so had to keep raising my prices to slow demand".

I agree with all the aforementioned statements in the post..
Then again...a slight smile....a slight nod..."thanks for letting me know, have a nice day". Reason doesn't work for people who would rather just shout "thief" at you. 

Since you can't smile and nod on email, nothing works better than an ignore or an email block.

Rick


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## ScadsOBees (Oct 2, 2003)

How petty and unpleasant. A person who doesn't get out much. I wonder if he hollers at people who drive expensive new cars and tells them how stupid they are when they could just have bought a perfectly good used one for much cheaper. 
And goes to restaurants and chews out the managers for the terrible high prices on the menu. Have you seen those appetizer prices??!!!
And the shoe store with $200 nikes, and the department store and the sporting goods stores and the...

Maybe we should just pity the old goat....


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## Hobie (Jun 1, 2006)

You know, for those of us who do not do this for a living, if you factor in the cost of equipment and the time you spend tending the bees, repairing the equipment, etc., and if you "paid" yourself minimum wage, honey would probably be $30+/lb.


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

I REALLY tried being nice to this guy.... I really did. But after some of his emails, I just had to let it all out. It felt great but I really do wish I would have kept it professional. Instead the cooks "sailors" mouth came out.... 

lol


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## GRIMBEE (Apr 3, 2007)

Is this guy smoking the honey or what?


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## Troy (Feb 9, 2006)

Chef,

I agree with Michigan Hobby. It's important to remember that those are AVERAGE prices in the journals. Someone has to be higher and some lower than those prices in order for it to average out at that price.

I for one prefer to sell a small amount of above average honey at above average prices.

Also this thread reminded me of a quote I once saw in a small town restaurant. It said:

"All of our customers bring us joy, some by coming and others by leaving."

This guy is obviously one of the latter. Let him go and keep your chin up.


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## samiyam318 (Jan 18, 2006)

Wait a minute. We're worrying about a guy who asked you, as a favor, to quote him a price, and then insulted you for doing what he asked? He isn't worth two seconds of your time. His real reward is getting you to respond to him showing that he stung you.

The saying that shows up here and elewhere is "don't wrestle with a pig; you both get dirty and the pig likes it." This guy loves insulting people. Ignore him and let him go insult somebody else.

He also, by the way, doesn't know how to spell "shyster."


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

I would have to agree with samiyam!


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## geoffkb (Jul 2, 2007)

*Cutting prices*

It reminds me of a story about a son who took over his father's business. They'd worked together for years and the son had always wanted to change things. 

When the father retired the son cut prices and of course profit margins, doubled the turnover and halved the net profit!


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