# Advice - hot hive split



## Calmbuzz (May 7, 2020)

Background:
I have two colonies - one a package in a horizontal hive that is establishing itself quite nicely the other a feral hive that occupied a hive left empty last fall, overwintered and is THRIVING. The feral colony is in a langstrom setup single brood box, queen excluder and two honey supers - one is mostly full and the other I just put on. I have had feral hives before (my first one was feral - and died out after 2 years on a re-queen attempt) and these bees always make it through the winter and come on strong in the spring - they are good bees but some get too hot to handle. This hive is headed that way - I cannot make it into the brood box at all without my veil being covered. 

I want to make the best of these bees if possible and am under the impression that a 3 or four way split could help in calming things down. Is this a good theory and if so should I just go about the normal split process getting them into 3 nucs and leaving the queen (if I find her) in the original box? 

Any other recommendations over the split? I have not had good luck with requeening in the past though if I had a quiet colony in a langstrom box Id try to set that on top as per recommendation in another thread. 

thanks in advance


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

Welcome,
You would like a standard Lang set up from your package? Also a calmer "feral"?

What I would do; take a frame of nurse bees of from your calm and put it and only it in a new box at your feral location. Move your feral which will leave much of the ill temper at your old location which you will not need to check often anyway. Move a frame of young brood above your excluder placing another box and frames between the excluder and brood frame to try for a vertical split.


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## Calmbuzz (May 7, 2020)

Saltybee said:


> Welcome,
> You would like a standard Lang set up from your package? Also a calmer "feral"?
> 
> What I would do; take a frame of nurse bees of from your calm and put it and only it in a new box at your feral location. Move your feral which will leave much of the ill temper at your old location which you will not need to check often anyway. Move a frame of young brood above your excluder placing another box and frames between the excluder and brood frame to try for a vertical split.


Thank you for the prompt reply SaltyBee! Eventually I will move all the bees to the horizontal hive system - its a lot easier on my back! Both hives are sitting on a 12 x12 deck platform at the edge of my property which is for all intents and purposes a cliff. Great ocean view but not a lot of flat space -  I suppose I could adapt a box with 1 layens brood frame to fit over the langstrom hive body to attempt this kind of split. I don't quite follow the suggested setup though - if I am reading you correctly - its 3 steps? 

1 Move the feral hive to the other end of the deck or further if possible (losing foragers due to disorientation)
2 Place an empty box with 1 frame of brood and nurse bees from the calm layens colony where the feral hive sat. What is the purpose of this box as it will be the focus of the hot foragers?
3 On the feral hive at its new location, move a frame of brood above the excluder separated by anther box with frames (empty or is honey ok?) 

Is that rigtht?

Thanks again for the advice.


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

1 How far to move depends upon the background they focus on. A big bush or tree they aim for and you do not have to move the parent hive as far. If they can find the new location they will move back. A similar style color , shape helps to trick them. The frame inside does not need to actually fit It just is to get them locked in on the location as home. The layens frames beside a lang frame is fine. ( not a layens guy)

2Yes focus point. More nurse bees help if you do not move the queen by mistake.

3 empty drawn, honey or foundation, you are just increasing the separation. The best way is to shake off the bees below the excluder ( not fun with a mean hive) and move multiple frames up to get more nurse bees. Will not hurt to wait a day to add the separator. More foragers will have left and more nurse up.


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