# Small Hive Beetle idea/question



## Michael1964 (Aug 4, 2011)

I have been trying to come up with something myself. Although this year I have not have as many issues with beetles this year.. Looking at the beetle jail traps.. I would hope I could make something similar to this:
http://beetlejail.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=39&product_id=55


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## Gino45 (Apr 6, 2012)

Ridiculous! The beetles are way smaller than bees. They even seem to be able to get into hives that are loaded with bees. I don't see how you can have an entrance for the bees that won't also serve the beetles, fwiw.


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## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

better thought is how to stop the larve from reaching the ground.... a combination of gaurdstar, solid bottoms and top entrances have really cut into my beetle issues.


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## justusflynns (Aug 2, 2012)

Gino45 said:


> Ridiculous! I don't see how you can have an entrance for the bees that won't also serve the beetles, fwiw.


I'm wondering if flight agility/maneuverability can be exploited. Force them to land and walk rather than fly into the hive.


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## Michael1964 (Aug 4, 2011)

Gino, I am with you there.. But I did see a video if this thing in action. The bees with their long legs step over the entrance and a hive beetle came along and landed on the edge of the trap, slipped and fell into the trap... Pretty cool.. I would like to know someone using one and see how it goes..

All of my have except for a couple of NUCs are on 2/6 hive stands.. the 2/6s are on blocks and bricks.. Late last summer after having a hive beetle problem all summer.. I cleaned out from under my hives, put down thick black plastic and covered it with gravel. It is setup so that it drains well. Along the outside I have bricks so it keeps the gravel in place.. In my thoughts, I figured if a hive beetle larva made it out of the hive it will land in that hot gravel and that would be the end of it... So far this year I have not see many hive beetles...maybe it has not been time for them yet, I do not know, but i think I have slowed them down for sure.


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## Gino45 (Apr 6, 2012)

Well, I like bottom entrances as they give me early insight into any problems being caused by beetles. So I am able to get to them early before they escape into the soil (or rocks). With no bottom entrance, I can't see what's going on from the outside and don't have this early detection.

Also, the beetles are great flyers and my thought is that I am get them from elsewhere rather than raising my own, fwiw.


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## mainubeek (Sep 24, 2012)

gmcharlie said:


> better thought is how to stop the larve from reaching the ground...


I've wondered if a mulch of spun landscape fabric--like Tyvek, but water permeable--under and around the hives would stop them. Anyone know?


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

gmcharlie said:


> better thought is how to stop the larve from reaching the ground....


That's a good thought...for inhibiting future SHB, but once larvae is crawling around in and exiting the hive, you must take immediate action within the hive to stop them. Getting salvageable frames out and freezing them, moving bees to new frames etc...


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## Michael1964 (Aug 4, 2011)

I think the black plastic with gravel on top is working for me.. The plastic makes the barrier and the gravel keeps the sun from eating the plastic. I had a lot of beetle traps in the hive all last year. I still have a couple in each hive this year but have not see any in there yet.

I think it everyone stopped the larva from making it to the ground there would be less and less..


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## Goldprospector (May 17, 2012)

gmcharlie said:


> better thought is how to stop the larve from reaching the ground.... a combination of gaurdstar, solid bottoms and top entrances have really cut into my beetle issues.


SHB's can pupate in the hive as well as in the ground.


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## wadehump (Sep 30, 2007)

I use mud flaps from dump trucks and semis that lay along the highway. I have seen 1 beetle in 10 years and that was this spring. He got the hive tool smash. The mud flaps get real hot in the summer sun don't know if that is what helps or not. Also my bees are all feral swarms, cutouts and splits from them and treatment free.


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## Gino45 (Apr 6, 2012)

We had a presentation here where it was stated that the larvae are hardy and can travel amazingly far, HOWEVER, A strong hive can control them. Better to control the mites that set the hive up to be destroyed by beetjes, IMO.

How many beetles are around is determined by how many hives, wild or domestic, are being destroyed by mites in the area. Mite destroyed hives are the source of the beetles.


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## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

never hear or seen that......


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## LetMBee (Jan 4, 2012)

Gino45: this year I have seen a major reduction in beetle numbers. All of the hives in those 3 affected yards are very strong this year. I don't know if the hive numbers are high because there are no beetles or if there are no beetles because I have well stocked colonies. 

I hope this is a trend that continues. Not seeing beetles on the inner cover on inspection is something I could get used to.....


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## Tom Davidson (Mar 20, 2012)

gmcharlie said:


> better thought is how to stop the larve from reaching the ground.... a combination of gaurdstar, solid bottoms and top entrances have really cut into my beetle issues.


I'm having a tough time this year. Making some corex and Beetle Jail traps using boric acid. I was wondering if solid bottoms and smaller entrances would help the bees in their fight against the beetles.

I know not scraping propolis really makes a difference, too. I've seen them entomb beetles in propolis this year. Sticky and effective.


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## Tom Davidson (Mar 20, 2012)

justusflynns said:


> I'm wondering if flight agility/maneuverability can be exploited. Force them to land and walk rather than fly into the hive.



A friend of mine has his hives 15 feet off the ground (on his back deck) and hasn't seen a single beetle in any of his hives. Makes me wonder if there's an altitude cut-off for the beetles' flight paths.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Gino45 said:


> How many beetles are around is determined by how many hives, wild or domestic, are being destroyed by mites in the area. Mite destroyed hives are the source of the beetles.


Huh? Where did you get that?


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## Stan1951 (Apr 9, 2013)

Last week I had what appeared to be a swarm of those beetles trying to get into the hive. I killed 20 or more just swatting them down and squashing them. There were quite a few being chased around inside the hive. This week I haven't seen one yet. Did the bees get rid of them or did they lay their eggs and leave?


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## Paul McCarty (Mar 30, 2011)

How do they deal with these beetles in Africa, where they came from? I notice a lot of Africans suspend their hives from trees.


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## LetMBee (Jan 4, 2012)

I don't know for sure, but it is my understanding that African honey bees are more likely to just abscond if a hive problem gets to the point they just can't deal with the situation. There may be someone at beesource that knows for sure though.


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## Paul McCarty (Mar 30, 2011)

We have the African type bees here, but not the beetles, so I really have no experience with it. The bees are bit flighty, but they do not tolerate any intrusions, such as beetles, mites, either. Just wondering out loud how these beetles are dealt with in their homelands.


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## Gino45 (Apr 6, 2012)

I just had my first hive wipe out by beetles this year. How it happened was the bee hive fell over (situated on loose rocks on slope) and I fixed it upright after maybe 3 days down. I came back a week later and it was slimed.

This had been a strong hive, but it couldn't defend the exposed combs. The deal about beetles is that they don't normally overrun a hive. Rather they overrun hives already weakened, usually by varroa. 

I have beetles in most of my hives; however, the bees have them under control. So they aren't producing more beetles. Where do they come from? I submit the following. They produce successfully in destroyed hives, feral or domestic, then fly out to find other 'opportunities'. Though it is said that they produce in fruit, I haven't seen that. So a destroyed hive results in thousands of new adult beetles.


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## LetMBee (Jan 4, 2012)

I have one hive site that gets SHB pretty bad. That hive site has accounted for about 50% of my losses since 2010. This year there are only 2 hives there, but they are very powerful. I haven't seen a beetle in either yet. Just as langstroth said 150 years ago about wax moths. The only real defense against pests is to have strong powerful colonies.


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## seapro220 (Mar 14, 2013)

I've had what I can only imagine as a plague of SHB this year. Within the last 6 weeks they seem to be really bad. I've tried several things, but have found nothing is a cure-all so far. At this time, I've removed the inner-cover to reduce the places they can hide, and use only screened bottom boards. I've tried boric acid in the beetle traps, and even diamateous earth around the ground outside. I currently have 4 hives and in each is at least 2 or 3 of the beetle traps filled with mineral oil - and I'm having to replace - due to them being almost full, ever 4 to 5 days. I ordered/received some Nematodes to put around the hives as I can't imagine a better way for them to die - except from the inside out. I'll be putting "my little friends" out tonight and we'll see how that goes. I don't necessarily believe that "only strong hives" can deter/keep them at bay because I had a 3-deep "full" hive get over run and lost 1/2 of it to the beetle larva. I know I won't every get rid of them totally, but if I can do something to help break their life cycle - I'm gonna try. 
I just have to remember the 3 S's - Sunshine, Strong Hives, and Space (don't give the bees more than they can guard).

I'll update this thread after a week, if I remember to letting everyone know how "my little friends" do ...


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Goldprospector said:


> SHB's can pupate *in the hive* as well as in the ground.


That's an interesting concept, but somewhat _contrary _to what the University of Georgia's Entomology dept says:


> Beetle larvae do not spin webs or cocoons in the bee hive but rather pupate in the soil outside the hive.
> 
> http://www.ent.uga.edu/bees/disorders/small-hive-beetle.html


Perhaps you could provide a link (or other reference) with more information about SHBs pupating in the hive?


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## Tom Davidson (Mar 20, 2012)

seapro220 said:


> I've had what I can only imagine as a plague of SHB this year. Within the last 6 weeks they seem to be really bad. I've tried several things, but have found nothing is a cure-all so far. At this time, I've removed the inner-cover to reduce the places they can hide, and use only screened bottom boards. I've tried boric acid in the beetle traps, and even diamateous earth around the ground outside. I currently have 4 hives and in each is at least 2 or 3 of the beetle traps filled with mineral oil - and I'm having to replace - due to them being almost full, ever 4 to 5 days. I ordered/received some Nematodes to put around the hives as I can't imagine a better way for them to die - except from the inside out. I'll be putting "my little friends" out tonight and we'll see how that goes. I don't necessarily believe that "only strong hives" can deter/keep them at bay because I had a 3-deep "full" hive get over run and lost 1/2 of it to the beetle larva. I know I won't every get rid of them totally, but if I can do something to help break their life cycle - I'm gonna try.
> I just have to remember the 3 S's - Sunshine, Strong Hives, and Space (don't give the bees more than they can guard).
> 
> I'll update this thread after a week, if I remember to letting everyone know how "my little friends" do ...


Thanks, seapro. Can't wait to hear your results. I'm going to switch to solid bottoms and reduced entrances to reduce the beetles' entry points. Great tip on the inner cover (I'm switching to my migratories)! With the solid bottoms, I'll install a top, small entrance as well for ventilation. Great to hear on your mineral oil success in those little traps. The beetles' have always ignored mine. Where do you position yours? I'm going to try a little boric acid in those Beetle Jails instead of mineral oil and see how that goes.


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## Gino45 (Apr 6, 2012)

In 2011, I had many hives abscond due to beetles; however, they also had mites first and had been untreated. FYI--no African honey bees here. Treatments saved most of what was left after I lost 2/3 of my hives. Now the shb is present year around in most hives, but I do not believe they are reproducing in the hives, iow no larvae to be seen.


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## Stan1951 (Apr 9, 2013)

Apparently they are not a big problem in Africa. The bees there are more aggressive about anything getting in their hive.


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## LetMBee (Jan 4, 2012)

Stan1951: In that case maybe it is not in our best interest to requeen a hive if they get a little wiley. My hives located at the SHB yard are a little mean. I cannot work them without protective clothing, but they are tolerating the beetles. I know everyone wants docile bees. I want live ones.


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## Paul McCarty (Mar 30, 2011)

It can be argued we are breeding out their survival impulse by automatically requeening at any hint of defensive traits. People forget we aren't keeping puppies.


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## LetMBee (Jan 4, 2012)

I had an issue this year when the bees at the SHB yard delivered 50 some stings to the property owner on his face and arms. I was concerned when I heard about it, but can't blame the bees. 

When i went to investigate there was grass sticking all over the sides and front of the hives. Come to find out the property owner mowed next to the hives discharging grass on the hives. He told me that nothing happened on the first pass, but they were waiting on him the second time he went past. Luckily the guy acknowledged tha he remembered me telling him NOT to shoot grass on the hives. He has been more careful the rest of the summer and has had no further problems.

It isn't always the bees fault.


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## jimsteelejr (Sep 21, 2012)

We help teach a bee class at USF. I have noticed that that all of the gardens hives are in full sun and have few if any hive beetles. Some of the students who keep hives there have their hives in full or partial shade. They are constantly using beetle traps and squashing beetles. There have also been several student hives crash. Our hives at home are on a concrete pad in full sun We have almost no hive beetles. My theory is that the concrete makes it hard for the beetles larvae to burrow and pupate and the heat discourages the beetles. Try moving your hives to get full sun and put some sort of barrier on the ground to prevent the beetles from pupating.


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## Davebcrzy (Mar 12, 2011)

I have 15 hives. Twelve of my hives are on a reclaimed gravel pit. The soil is clay and it still has plenty of gravel. While I do see an occasional beetle in these twelve hives I have never had to treat for beetles nor lost a hive to beetles. I also have one hive placed under some high hanging cedar limbs with cedar sheds all around this hive. Again, I have never had problem with beetles in this hive. However, the remaining two are a different story. They are in soft soil and I am constantly doing beetle control.


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## seapro220 (Mar 14, 2013)

Tom - 
In response to where I actually put the traps - I've found that I'm catching just as many directly on top of the brood, as in the 'back' of the hive as generally recommended. I don't want to un-necessarly 'plug' a product but these (www.beeterbeetleblaster.com) have been working for me so far. I originally tried adding some apple cider to them because the 'smell' was supposed to lure them - but haven't found that to be true. I also found this interesting presentation which is quite informative on the SHB if anybody's interested .. http://vimeo.com/31401082

I'd also like to note that I don't like the idea of purchasing anything that's not recyclable - so I just put them in with the other bottles I have whenever I take them to the recycling yard - and they're not the wiser. I've found also that you need to shop around, as the pricing varies between different distributers. It's best if you can combine some orders with others - possibly from your local bee club and get better discounting. For some reasoning, the price doesn't change until you hit their magic 100-count number. I'd originally tried the smaller units that would 'hang' on the sides of the frames (instead of having to have 2 frames to be sandwiched in between) and were re-usable, but believe there wasn't as many 'holes' in the units and more beetles were running across them - instead of being chased, or falling into them. 

good luck ..


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## Tom Davidson (Mar 20, 2012)

Thanks, seapro220. I'll move mine to the brood chamber! I had mine in the boxes above.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

seapro220 said:


> I don't want to un-necessarly 'plug' a product but these (www.beeterbeetleblaster.com) have been working for me so far.


There appears to be a typo in the link.  This one works better: 
http://www.betterbeetleblaster.com/


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## seapro220 (Mar 14, 2013)

oops - thanks for the correction...


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