# varroa meds tied to brood cycle?



## hoodswoods (May 15, 2009)

I know that there is/has been a lot of traffic on the medication subject... I haven't seen anything specific, but do most of these work thru a brood cycle to prevent infestation from emerging bee larvae? For example, the formic acid pads I'm using indicates to keep on for 21 days. We are having weather warm enough to support the medication threshold, and I'm having a big mite drop into my west trap, but do I have a brood cycle occuring right now that I need to control by keeping the pad on for the full time?

I don't want to take it off if I'll have emerging brood infestated with the mites I'm trying to get rid of - on the other hand I would like to limit the time they are exposed (this time of year, anyway)


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Here's an illustration of the differences between treating with brood and without:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesvarroatreatments.htm


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

I don't want to take it off 

Please follow the label instructions for good results.
Ernie


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

The link offered by Michael Bush ILLUSTARATES his thoughts very well.

Just for the record, 16,000 mites INSIDE capped brood cells NEVER happens in real life.
I'm sure the number was exaggerated for ILLUSTRATION purpose only.


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## hoodswoods (May 15, 2009)

Thanks for the responses, but I am still in the darkwhether I would be in a brood cycle at this time of year or not - If I shouldn't have bees hatching and the mites I have are Phoretic (which I understand to mean fully developed and living on mature bees), wouldn't all the mites I have now are exposed to this short-term treatment and I don't have to worry about infested emerging new bees?

I can understand that mites might live in both capped and uncapped cells, but I haven't understood this 21 day requirement for treatment during a non-hatching period. MB's numbers (regardless of the numbers) show me that 0% (N/A) of mites are retained during a non-brood cycle.

This, of course, begs the question regarding the mite itself and not only its requirement for bee-blood (whether immature of otherwise), but also does it have a brood cycle as well, or is it totally dependant on the bees?

If the mite can live, thrive and reproduce outside the presence of bees - say in comb, then the 21-day requirement for treatment is rather arbitrary (sans brood), other than it takes that long for the chems to penetrate the comb to kill mites.

If the mite is solely dependent on the presence of bees - whether hatched or not, and cannot, therefore, survive within its cycle, and there is no emerging bee brood, what is the importance of a 21-day treatment?

If bees and their cycle is the determining factor for the presence of mites, and there is no brood cycle occuring, then the time needed to kill Phoretic(?) mites should be able to be determined.

If mites propogate independant of the bee brood cycle, is the 21-day med time requirement associated with chemical penetration and/or mite cycle?

This is the first time I've used medication, and it appears to be having a rather profound negative effect on the bees - other than the substantial mite drop (being positive?), and I would, like all of us, prefer to minimize its usage.

Mites are not viruses nor bacteria - show me a grizzle bear-resistant human and I'll show you a mite-resistant bee


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## Omie (Nov 10, 2009)

hoodswoods said:


> This is the first time I've used medication, and it appears to be having a rather profound negative effect on the bees...


Can you elaborate on that please?


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## hoodswoods (May 15, 2009)

At what point did you & Lord Tennyson lose the process? - 'Thanks for the responses', or 'This is the first time I've used medication, and it appears to be having a rather profound negative effect on the bees...?

The nice thing about these threads is that we can choose which to read & what to reply to, based on relevance to our own situation.

I assume that you have some experience or interest in late fall mite treatment as it relates to the brood cycle of bees and if it is advisable to treat thru a possible non-existant cycle, based on the mite cycle, or can/should I limit my bee exposure to meds to just exposed mites. If so, in your experience, how many days is that?


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## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

hoodswoods said:


> but do I have a brood cycle occuring right now


Only you can answer this question by inspecting your hive for the presence of brood.


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## hoodswoods (May 15, 2009)

My bees were up thru 2 deeps and into my medium super, feeding on my top hive feeder. When I inspected the top super, it had 0 comb drawn after 2 months, so I removed it and placed the formic acid pad on the top of my top deep, there has not been a bee visit my feeder since - it appears that they won't cross above that med pad, tho I have 2 gallons of 2:1 sitting where 2 weeks ago they were visiting


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## hoodswoods (May 15, 2009)

Beeslave said:


> Only you can answer this question by inspecting your hive for the presence of brood.


Understand, but typically this late in the year should I expect emerging bees at Christmas time with normal temps (mid 30's to 60+)? This is my first year, so first of all, I was suprised with issues that weren't supposed to happen this year, and am reluctant to dig into my hive looking for brood that appears to be already severely compromised.

The meds come off the 3rd of Dec - I can wait that long, regardless, I am just trying to gather information about the bee-mite relationship & if that is affected by, or independant of brood cycles, and therefore winter sensitive.inch:


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

>I am still in the darkwhether I would be in a brood cycle at this time of year or not . . .
I would expect in Georgia, you may have bees hatching this time of year.

>Phoretic (which I understand to mean fully developed and living on mature bees) . . .
Means "living outside bees brood cell". And yes, when phoretic, they are fully developed and most are MATED (foundress).

>wouldn't all the mites I have now are exposed to this short-term treatment and I don't have to worry about infested emerging new bees . . .
If you have no bees hatching, all mites inside hive will be phoretic.


>I can understand that mites might live in both capped and uncapped cells . . .
Mites enter uncapped cells and reproduce in capped cells. They do not "just live" in any EMPTY cell.


>I haven't understood this 21 day requirement for treatment during a non-hatching period . . .
The 21-day treatment period is so that all hatching mites will be exposed to the chemical at some time during the 21-day period.


>MB's numbers (regardless of the numbers) show me that 0% (N/A) of mites are retained during a non-brood cycle . . .
If 100% of the phoretic mites are killed, which seldom (never) happens.


>does it have a brood cycle . . .
Yes. Its brood cycle is almost completed while cell is capped. 


>is it totally dependant on the bees . . .
Yes. Varroa must have bee larva present in order to reproduce. And Varroa must feed on adult bees when not reproducing. 


>If the mite can live, thrive and reproduce outside the presence of bees . . .
It can NOT live (long) away from bees.

>the 21-day requirement for treatment is rather arbitrary (sans brood), other than it takes that long for the chems to penetrate the comb to kill mites . . .
The 21-day period has nothing to do w/ penetration time. It was established so that when the bees hatch, every mite will be exposed to the chemical (theoretically).

>first time I've used medication, and it appears to be having a rather profound negative effect on the bees . . .
What negative effect on the BEES are you seeing?

>substantial mite drop (being positive?)
Positive in the sence that it is killing mites, but . . .
there souldnt be mites present this time of year  

>Mites are not viruses nor bacteria - show me a grizzle bear-resistant human and I'll show you a mite-resistant bee . . .
There are mites that are resistant to cetain chemicals, and there are bees that are "tolerant" (not resistant) of mites.


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## hoodswoods (May 15, 2009)

Thank you Dave for taking the time - I understand it was a long-winded post, but you made much clearer that mite-bee relationship. As I haven't medicated at all this first year, other than HBH and a 10x sugar dusting a couple of weeks ago - why would I not have mites this time of year, considering our mild falls and winters?

I can observe a serious mite problem, but is their presence this time of year not typical in other untreated hives - other than those hives on a disaster course?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

When I was losing hives to Varroa I often found tens of thousands of dead Varroa on the bottom board. I'm sure there were tens of thousands in the cells during the peak of Varroa reproduction.

Of course Varroa have a brood cycle. They enter the cell just before the larva is capped and about 60 hours or so later lay their first egg which is a male and every 30 hours or so afterwords lay a female egg. This starts shortly after they are capped and continues until they emerge. In standard sized cells this is from the 10th day (nine days after the egg was layed) until the 22nd day (21 days after the egg was layed) which is 12 days later. But of all those only one or two will make it to maturity and mate. If they don't make it to maturity then they are not viable and will die shortly after emergence.


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

>why would I not have mites this time of year, considering our mild falls and winters . . .

>I can observe a serious mite problem, but is their presence this time of year not typical in other untreated hives - other than those hives on a disaster course . . . 

Sorry, I do not understand.
Please try again


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

Oh, maybe I see the problem 

>>substantial mite drop (being positive?)
>Positive in the sence that it is killing mites, but . . .
>there souldnt be mites present this time of year

Let me explain "there sould'nt be mites present this time of year".
This is true IF mite treatment is completed earlier in the year and the colony is not re-infested by your bees robbing other hives and bring back their mites to your colony.

No mite treatment ever removes ALL the mites. There are always mites in the hive, year round.

In November, I usually see a natural drop (a drop NOT created by any chemical) of about 2 mites per 24 hrs. In Dec, about 1 per 24 hrs. In Jan and Feb about .5 or less. In very cold weather, sometimes there will not be a mite drop for several days. But come a warm day and BOOM, 3 or 4 show up in just one day.

After your treatment is removed (a couple of weeks) hopefully, your NATURAL mite drops will be ABOUT as indicated.


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

This is the first time I've used medication, and it appears to be having a rather profound negative effect on the bees...
Still would like you to elaborate on the negative effects
- other than the substantial mite drop (being positive?), and I would, like all of us, prefer to minimize its usage.
beekeeping is different for different areas in the country and in the northerh hemisphere, and in the world. Weather conditions, honey flows, management styles play a huge part in what happens in our hives. Please do not paint us all with the same brush stroke. We all have different management styles. I will admit, I treat for mites regularly. I am not ashamed that I do treat for mites. I have my methods of choice and will stick with that. However, I do test my bees for mites all year long and know where i stand at any given time.
By the way, just so we are clear, sugar dusting ---is a treatment---a costly treatment by comparison to a MA2 pad, and if it worked for you, you would not be treating with MA2 now. 

one thing that is not mentioned here on this thread, is when the mite enters the cell to lay her eggs, one mite goes in and up to seven mites comes out. So when a cycle happens, your mite counts can increase 7x. That is alot

From my experience with mite away 2, if your bees are not crossing the pad during feeding, they are not a strong hive, or they have enough food in the chambers and they will cross after the first week or so.
I noticed this in my hives. The stronger ones fed on the feed and the weaker ones did not. They went to the lower brood chamber.
That said, when i put the pads on it was 27 Celcius, and the next day dropped below 10 celcius, so the weaker colonies went into cluster. I would have put the pads on earlier however we were having two weeks of 30 celcius which is too warm for the first week of the pads.

That said, 75% of the hives we had ate the pollen we gave them and the pollen patty was next to the formic pad. The weaker hives did not touch the patty. I think it has something to do with the space between the feed and the frames where weak hives are concerned

Strange fall we had.

On a normal year, I have had no issues with them crossing the pad to feed on the syrup given.

I have some questions

When you used the sugar treatments, did you test your mite levels pre and post to see if it worked?
Before you used the formic pads, did you test for your mite #'s?
Are you going to test mid treatment?
what are the weights of your hives like? if you do not actually weigh them, lift the front of the bottom board to see approx how heavy
Finally, if your bees are not in cluster, how many frames of bees do you have?


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## StevenG (Mar 27, 2009)

Michael Bush,
I checked the link you posted in an earlier reply on this thread. If I remember correctly, you do not treat for mites. Your chart indicates a veritable explosion of mites eventually with no treatment. 

So, how do you prevent your colonies from collapsing, with no treatments? Are you simply using what is called "survivor stock?" 

If that is the case, for those of us trying to gut it up and go chemical free, would you mind sharing with us your percentage of colony losses now, and how long it took you to get to this point?

I restarted in beekeeping recently, and am not treating, but am more than a little concerned. 
Thanks!
Steven


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>one thing that is not mentioned here on this thread, is when the mite enters the cell to lay her eggs, one mite goes in and up to seven mites comes out. So when a cycle happens, your mite counts can increase 7x. That is alot

Not true. They cannot increase by 7x in one brood cycle. One foundress mite in a worker cell with a 21 day cycle (as in large cell comb) will have only one or at the most two viable offspring. This is a 2x to 3x increase at most. This is because most of her offspring will not make it to maturity and mating. One foundress mite in a drone cell in large cell bees will have a 24 day cycle and that will have between 3 and 4 offspring, making (counting the foundress) at the most a 5 mites, which is at best a 5x increase and more likely on 4 mites which is a 4x increase.

>I checked the link you posted in an earlier reply on this thread. If I remember correctly, you do not treat for mites.

I do not.

> Your chart indicates a veritable explosion of mites eventually with no treatment.

The chart is based on large cell bees with a 21 day brood cycle. I have small cell bees with a 19 day brood cycle.

>So, how do you prevent your colonies from collapsing, with no treatments?

Small cell and natural cell size.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnaturalcell.htm

> Are you simply using what is called "survivor stock?"

I am now, but that was not what I changed to get the Varroa under control. I just changed cell size.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beessctheories.htm

>If that is the case, for those of us trying to gut it up and go chemical free, would you mind sharing with us your percentage of colony losses now, and how long it took you to get to this point?

My losses from Varroa (as evidenced by lots of dead Varroa on the bottom board and/or Varroa feces in the cells etc.) before regressing were 100%

My losses from Varroa (as evidenced by the virtual complete lack of dead Varroa on the bottom board and no Varroa feces in the cells etc.) after regressing were 0%

My losses from winter, starvation etc. vary from year to year depending on the weather, as they always have. Once they were on 4.9mm or below in the core of the brood nest it was no problem. I did this in one year with wax coated PermaComb. I bought PermaComb (which is only available in mediums), heated it, dipped it in beeswax and shook off the wax. This made the equivalent, if you take into account the cell wall thickness and the taper of the cell, a 4.9mm fully drawn comb. One can now buy Honey Super Cell which is already that size, but is only available in deeps. I have also tried the HSC and cut it down to mediums (which is what I run). This results in instant regression. After that I used foundationless frames and Mann Lake PF120s (which are 4.95mm)

>I restarted in beekeeping recently, and am not treating, but am more than a little concerned.

As you should be.


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

When i do checks with the scratching fork, I have found 6 and 7 mites in a cell when pulling out drone brood. This was checking a hive that at a few weeks prior "looked ok" and then on the next check, was in desparate need of help. I have learned through trial and error that the scratching fork, while not a good indication of mite infestation, it can be the first line in indicating if you have mites in the hive and if your monitoring needs to go to the next step. I have learned that the visual of "on the bees backs" is too late and that a proactive approach needs to be taken in order to keep on top of them.


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## Omie (Nov 10, 2009)

hoodswoods said:


> At what point did you & Lord Tennyson lose the process? - 'Thanks for the responses', or 'This is the first time I've used medication, and it appears to be having a rather profound negative effect on the bees...?...
> I assume that you have some experience or interest in late fall mite treatment as it relates to the brood cycle of bees and if it is advisable to treat thru a possible non-existant cycle, based on the mite cycle, or can/should I limit my bee exposure to meds to just exposed mites. If so, in your experience, how many days is that?


No, I have no experience in using miticides yet. I was considering applying some to the established hive which I was given just a few weeks ago, but I decided it was inadvisable to do so so late in the Fall.
I was just wondering what 'rather profound negative effect' you were observing...I sure wouldn't want to do anything bad to my bees either.
I didn't mean to offend you in any way, I'm just trying to learn. 
Did I say something stupid?


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## hoodswoods (May 15, 2009)

No offence, Omie - just a misunderstanding - when you spend 45 minutes trying to get an idea across, and then someone says - could you elaborate?, you're not sure exactly what they mean, my apologies.

First of all - thanks for the responses. If there is a resouce on varroa and its relationship to bees (with regard to the items we have been discussing), I believe that this would be important for a lot of us to know.

Ya'll (southern for the northern term you'se guys) first need to know that this is my first year, and the information I absorbed was that varroa was not a 1st year issue. I was dealing with SHB and converted my SBB to a west hive trap and AJ's mid summer (along with some hive & feeder modifications). It was late in the year when I first paid attention to a lot of things (mites) in my oil trap and suddenly noticed some bees with deformed wings.

Specific to your questions, I have never mite-counted, and without some mods to my west trap, yet to contemplate how.

I sugar-dusted as a panic response to my conditions, hoping to alleviate some of my existing conditions - altho I had considered it as a future maintenance task.

I ran a super above 2 deeps (put it on when frames on 2nd deep had +/- 6 frames drawn) mid-august. Bees were passing thru this medium sucking down quarts of liquid feed every few days, but immediately stopped visiting feeder (had not fed them in a month) after I pulled the medium (not one single frame drawn) and placed MAll pad. The weather turned bad right at that time, so that is the extent of what I consider the relationship between meds and negative bee-havior - not taking syrup or passing above pad.

The weather should be mild mid-week and I'll inspect and pass on observations. I still have white pollen comming into hive.

I assume that those of you'se guys with years of experience either understand/have experienced this relationship and/or have read of it.

1. We all have mites that live in a symbiotic relationship with the bee, or at least take advantage of the bee brood cycle, regardless of the age of the colony.

2. Mite control should be done according to the quantitative measurements throughout the year, and those results indicate effectiveness of method of control (natural or chemical) or requirement.

3. If medication is applied during the brood cycle, measurements must be done prior, midway and then beyond the brood cycle to verify that brood has been treated and there has not been a brood hatch of mites.

4. If medication is applied outside of the brood cycle (assuming only a phoretic infestation), full-term medication might not be required (therefore reducing exposure), but then again requires a pre, mid and post normal brood cycle emergence measurement.

I have one little hive in my back yard that I had hoped to assist in pollenation, increase bee population and get a jar of honey at the end of each year - I may have to go back to raising extinct Doo-Doo birds.


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

hoodswoods said:


> 1. We all have mites that live in a symbiotic relationship with the bee, or at least take advantage of the bee brood cycle, regardless of the age of the colony.
> 
> Yes
> 
> ...


Maybe instead of going back to raising extinct Doo-Doo birds, you might want to consider some IPM in your one hive, and consider some of the less invasive mite monitoring.
Three that come to mind are
1. the scratching for and poking and pulling out capped drone brood when you are looking in your hive, especially in the brood chambers. This does not give a mite level infestation, but rather the knowledge of if you do or not have a proble.
2. Can be done after the stabbing of drones if need be, or done instead of jabbing the drones...the drop test...on the bottom board a sticky board with the rubber cover and count the mites in 48 hour and divide by 2 for your daily drop #
3. for the more accurate testing, use a jar, rubbing alcohol or blue windshield washing fluid with alcohol, a screen and a calculator.
read on the link provided for the testing method
there is another test...sugar roll...never done...can not advise...
however, these tests can be done in spring, pre honey flow, mid honey flow, and post honey flow. Pre mid and post treatments.
In the spring i go directly to the drop method, however after seeing and trying the wash method (easy and cheap), going that way...
in the later part of the spring or summer, or any time i find drone comb, I am jabbing drones for the look see to see if the bees are fair well.

Spotting mites on the back is to late in my opinion...where there is one...

http://www.capabees.com/main/files/pdf/varroathreshold.pdf

This is for the canadian praires, check out the graphs in blue where it gives some economic thresholds


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## hoodswoods (May 15, 2009)

To all that have responded - thanks - but none of you have included a link to any real scientific information about varroa. There are a bunch of numbers being thrown around, which I am sure are based on your experiences and, no doubt, scientific measurements and observations - but surely there is some article from which you draw your knowledge - and I refer back to thread posts from MB, Dave W, honeyshack... - did you just observe?:

MB "They enter the cell just before the larva is capped and about 60 hours or so later lay their first egg which is a male and every 30 hours or so afterwords lay a female egg. This starts shortly after they are capped and continues until they emerge. In standard sized cells this is from the 10th day (nine days after the egg was layed) until the 22nd day (21 days after the egg was layed) which is 12 days later. But of all those only one or two will make it to maturity and mate. If they don't make it to maturity then they are not viable and will die shortly after emergence"

MB again "Of course Varroa have a brood cycle. They enter the cell just before the larva is capped and about 60 hours or so later lay their first egg which is a male and every 30 hours or so afterwords lay a female egg. This starts shortly after they are capped and continues until they emerge. In standard sized cells this is from the 10th day (nine days after the egg was layed) until the 22nd day (21 days after the egg was layed) which is 12 days later. But of all those only one or two will make it to maturity and mate. If they don't make it to maturity then they are not viable and will die shortly after emergence."

MB again, again "Not true. They cannot increase by 7x in one brood cycle. One foundress mite in a worker cell with a 21 day cycle (as in large cell comb) will have only one or at the most two viable offspring. This is a 2x to 3x increase at most. This is because most of her offspring will not make it to maturity and mating. One foundress mite in a drone cell in large cell bees will have a 24 day cycle and that will have between 3 and 4 offspring, making (counting the foundress) at the most a 5 mites, which is at best a 5x increase and more likely on 4 mites which is a 4x increase."

Or Dave W "If you have no bees hatching, all mites inside hive will be phoretic.", OR "Varroa must have bee larva present in order to reproduce. And Varroa must feed on adult bees when not reproducing." 

I'm not trying to nit-pick your appreciated comments, just trying to find out if there is something more out there you have read than just observation. There are a lot of foul inhabitants of our hives, but if varroa destroys as indicated, and there seems to be no environmental constraint re weather, temperature, location... including "survivor stock", small cell or other methods - this seems to be one of the most important things we need to understand in how and when we treat our stock.

Puffing PS or raising small cell is only as effective as we understand what we're dealing with - when, why and how. If your observations are the extent of knowledge, then so be it - probably more informative and correct than some scientific paper anyway.


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

Did you even look at the capa site i posted? If not here it is again





DR. Rob Currie and his staff work at studing bees and the diseases and bugs in the hive at the University of Manitoba

http://techtransfer.ontariobee.com/


this group studies bees as well

i gave you capa bees, and now tech transfer

http://randyoliver.com/

Here is another...If this is not scientific enough for you, knock yourself out and find your own research!

American Bee journal
Canadian Honey council bee mag
manitoba beekeepers.org magazine

lots of research... 


And as an observation, I have counted 6-7 mites on the back of a drone brood that i have pulled out. Maybe not all are egg layers, however if just 3 are egg layers...got yourself a problem with in 3 weeks


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

A google search on "Varroa life cycle" should yield plenty of information. The life cycle of the Varroa has been extensively studied. My numbers are based on commonly known facts that are accepted, as far as I know, by everyone, regardless of their view of the solution to the problem.


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## hoodswoods (May 15, 2009)

honeyshack:

Wasn't looking to cheat on the exam - just thought that someone out there had knowledge of (a) particular article(s) from which they gleaned their specific knowledge.

The Randy Oliver series on IPM in ScientificBeekeeping.com was most informative, following your link - thanks.

Popped my noggin in below my feeder and found lots of white comb bubbling up around the MA ll pad with a fair amount of bees crawling around, but are still refusing liquid feed.

Still have white and yellow pollen being brought in. My unscientific 24-hour mite 'observation' in my bottom oil trap reveals only just a countable number of mites, where before the numbers were pretty staggering - but that was over a much longer time-frame. 7 more days of treatment.

Is anyone successful using drone foundation (super-sized cell)? - But then we're back into the drone-brood control-or-not thread.

Thanks to all - Happy Thanksgiving


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

I use drone frames as part of a control program. I only do it when I know for sure that I can pull the frames and clean them out. My schedule can be busy and somewhat unpredictable so I don't take any chances and leave the frames in for too long. 

I believe that drone frames is part of a season long approach to handle mites. I don't think there's a single "magic bullet" for mites that will be sustaining. From time to time I see people asking if something or other is effective. Drone frames, sugar dusting, oxalic acid, formic acid, various "hard" chemicals, etc. For me, it starts with what you can do. If you can't afford some chemicals, then that option is out. If you don't have the time for dusting, then dusting won't work. What you're left with is what you should adopt. Most of us are hobby beekeepers and typically have the ability to incorporate a variety of approaches. I believe that you should study up, follow directions from the manufacturer if you're using a commercial product, take baseline AND post treatment measurements and decide what works best for you. Then, stick with it until it's routine.....like a habit. Good habits are like good friends. I think we'll still lose hives, but less often. Those that are lost may also have been adversely affected by variables such as weather, predators, frosts, etc., but may not have already been at the "tipping point" due to mites. Finally, I take the position of action instead of reaction. In my mind, a hive that is overrun with mites is like a hive that is set to swarm. Like swarm prevention, you're better off trying to control the increase in mites rather than deal with a hive already at a critical point. Swarm prevention after the swarm is not productive and neither is trying to knock down mites from an overwhelmed colony. 

Just my thoughts.


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## sjj (Jan 2, 2007)

hoodswoods said:


> varroa meds tied to brood cycle?



May I suggest another point of view:

"Varroa meds tied to brood rhythm of the bee colony?

(The brood rhythm and it's status at the time of the treatment).


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## Brent Bean (Jun 30, 2005)

Effective pest treatment wither it’s for controlling mites in honeybees or apple maggots in you apple tree. The first rule is “Know Thy Enemy”. Varoa mites cannot reproduce outside of a cell they must also gestate inside a capped cell along with the honeybee. The main reason for the 21 day treatment is honeybee gestation for a worker is 21 days for a Varoa 7. so by applying treatment for 21 days it will cover three generations of the Varoa. By applying Formic acid during periods of diminished brood rearing or no brood rearing of course would be total mite exposure to the treatment.
I have effectively used Formic acid since it was approved in 2005 by following directions to the letter. Daytime high temperatures are critical the first week for mortality control of brood during this period. Following treatment plans using it will prove to be a good weapon in an IPM program.


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## laurelmtnlover (May 29, 2009)

I have just come across this article by Ross Conrad. Don't know if it has been posted, but seems very good:
http://www.dancingbeegardens.com/Articles.html

The main point: "the Varroa Reproduction and Population Growth " is about half way down. Good article


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

There is more info about Varroa than most want to spend the time reading. Do a search here on BeeSource, and search the Internet, or buy a few books.

I will echo MB's post:
"A google search on "Varroa life cycle" should yield plenty of information. The life cycle of the Varroa has been extensively studied. My numbers are based on commonly known facts that are accepted, as far as I know, by everyone, regardless of their view of the solution to the problem."


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