# FGMO and thymol



## Hanginin (Mar 11, 2006)

Does anyone have any positive or negative reports on the use of FGMO and thymol?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Clinton has done a lot of experimenting with it.


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## margot (Jun 25, 2001)

I've been fogging 3-4 hives with fgmo for about two years, and I'm pleased with the results. Last fall and again this spring I've added thymol, although I will not use thymol when the supers are on. I have found very few mites on the screened bottom boards. Two of my three hives did not survive the winter, but I think the clusters were too small. 

This is strictly anecdotal evidence, and not at all scientific!


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

66% mortality is pretty bad. Were the coloines late splits?? Have you done a sugar roll test?


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## clintonbemrose (Oct 23, 2001)

I Have been working with FGMO for 7 years and started a 3 year test with FGMO/Tymol in 2005.
The first year 10 packages of Italian bees were started. 5 were control hives that were treated with the standard chemicals. 5 were the test hives that were treated with FGMO/Thymol once a week when the bees were flying. There were tests taken 4 times that year and tested for Thymol residues and FGMO residues usinf indipendant labs. There was no FGMO residues found in the wax, honey, or the wooden ware. The residues of Thymol found was the amount that normaly ocurs in nature.
Going thrugh the Michigan winter of 2005-2006 4 of the control hives were lost(because of mites V and T and the 5th control hive was very weak. All of the FGMO/Thymol hives were booming in middle March. By May 1 the last control hive never recovered and died out. The reason was an extremly high count of Varoa mites and Trachial mites. 5 new packages were started as a control group and already the V mite count is high using an ether roll and powdered sugar roll. In disecting the non-FGMO/Thymol hives are now showing evedance of Trachial mites also where the FGMO/Thymol hives show almost no mites. The FGMO/Thymol hives have 5 almost full suppers while the 5 control hives only have 1 suppedr 1/2 full each. We have a supper flow going on here that I have never seen before.
Clint


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## Hanginin (Mar 11, 2006)

Clint- I appreciate the above response and look foward to the results of the balance of the 3 year test. It does reflect promise. Have you (1)observed any corrosion of the nails and spacers inside the hives? My use of Formic Acid has shown this and (2) where do you obtain Thymol crystals and how are they mixed into the FGMO?


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## tommo1 (Jun 11, 2006)

I fogged 5 of my 8 hives last saturday with the FGMO Thymol mix. i was surprised how quickly the fog came out of the top of the hive and the volume. I fogged through the mesh floor. In at the back door so to speak.i have mesh floors with a solid bottom 3-4" away from the mesh with a trap door at the rear.
The speed at which the hive and the area filled with fog put me of balance a bit and I didnt fog for the 4 -5 seconds. Will this be sufficient
From what I have read I can continue to do this fortnightly or can it be weekly.
i noticed on two of the hives even for such a short fogging period a number of bees hung from the entrance for a 24 hours.
I will count my drop tonight a brief look this morning didnt indicate any drop.
I have also put the cords in again to the recipe.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Does anyone still have the mixing directions for FGMO and Thymol for fogging?? I think I have it on another computer but probably not.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Found it......

FGMO-THYMOL FORMULA FOR CORDS AND BURGESS FOGGER
(Do not use thymol in your formula with honey supers on)

The purpose of the FGMO-Thymol for these formulae is to obtain a concentration of thymol no higher than 5.49% thymol for the fogger and 2.53% thymol for the emulsion soaked cords.

Emulsion soaked cords
1000 cc mineral oil @ 0.86 density
(*) (860 grams (30.34 oz.))
100 grams (3.53 oz.) thymol
1000 grams honey (2-1/4 pounds)
1000 grams beeswax (2-1/4 pounds)
100 pieces of cotton cord (40 inches long each)
Add the weight of the ingredients without the cords
Divide into 100 grams thymol
Thus:
100 = 2.53 % thymol
3960 total weight


Fogger
1000 cc mineral oil @ 0.86 density
(*) (860 grams (30.34 oz.))
50 grams (1.76 oz.) thymol
Add the weight of above
Divide into 50 grams thymol

Thus:
50 = 5.49 % thymol
910 total weight

(*) 1000 cc of FGMO of 0.86 density weighs 860 grams
Remove 100 cc FGMO from 1000 cc to dilute thymol. See instructions below.


Instructions for diluting thymol
These instructions replace previous instructions for dilution of thymol with alcohol. Even though alcohol utilized for dilution of the thymol evaporates readily, I wish to dismiss potential offenses to millions of brothers in faith who oppose use of alcohol. The new formulae are not only more cost-effective and not offensive to non-alcohol consumers, but also easier to prepare minimizing the risk of adding a flammable agent to the formula.


Instructions for making dilution for the fogger
Remove 100 cc FGMO from the 1000 cc intended for mixture. Place 100 cc FGMO in a mason jar. Add 50 grams thymol for fogger and 100 grams for emulsion cords, and secure cup tightly. Place a metal container filled with water (e.g. cooking ware) on a heat source. Place glass jar with the 100 cc FGMO and thymol in the water of the heating vessel. Swish/swirl jar as the water heats up until thymol dissolves completely. Solution will become slightly amber in color (normal change). The solution is now ready to add to the rest of the FGMO intended for use in the fogger or the cords.


Instructions for making FGMO-thymol emulsion
Place 900 cc FGMO in a metal or ceramic container and place container over a heat source. Allow oil to heat. Add 1000 grams (2-1/4 pounds) beeswax and stir well until wax is totally melted. Remove container from heat source. Add 1000 grams (2-1/4 pounds honey) and stir well until it blends into wax-FGMO mixture. Add 100 cc FGMO-thymol mixture previously diluted as per instructions above. Add cords immediately and stir until they are well soaked with the solution. Pack cords in a tightly sealed container and store in a cool place. Your emulsion-soaked cords will be ready to use as soon as the emulsion cools.


Instructions for making FGMO-thymol mixture for fogger
Add 100 cc FGMO-thymol mixture (obtained as per instructions above for diluting thymol) to 900 cc FGMO (remainder of the 1000 cc needed) and shake well. This will result in a 5.49 % FGMO-thymol solution. Fill your fogger container. You are now ready to fog. Set fogger on a level, steady surface. Turn gas valve to the left 1/4 turn. Listen for a slight hissing sound from your fogger. Light your fogger from underneath (I recommend using a butane stove lighter for this purpose). Wait. You should notice a drop or two of oil dripping from the spout of the fogger. Next, you should notice a small emission of oil mist similar to that of a lit cigarette. Next, the fogger will emit a larger puff of oil mist. The fogger is now ready for fogging. Holding the fogger parallel to the ground, point the nozzle directly at your hive entrance. DO NOT AIM THE FOGGER DOWNWARD! Place a tray or shield below the hive if you use screen-bottom boards to direct flow of mist into the hive. Pull the trigger of the fogger 3-4 times, while you count 1001, 1002, 1003, and 1004, depending on the population size of your hives. When fogging, please wear a respirator for safety reasons. Never add any other ingredient to your fogger when following this procedure. Do not use foggers that may have been used for spraying pesticides previously. Residues from the insecticide may have remained imbedded in the container. These residues would then be transferred to your FGMO-thymol solution and result in probable bee kills.


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## jamiev (Sep 14, 2005)

I have a question about the thymol crystals. Can you use the non synthetic pure thyme oil, an essential oil available at health food stores? If so does the recipe (formula change)??


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## JJ (Jun 22, 2004)

Hi Jamiev, If you e-mail the Good Dr. (Pedro) he surely will be able to answer your question. Take care JJ


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

The believe th answer is no jamiev. It needs to be a pure form. I would question the purity of an oil as the thymol crystalizes as it approached high concentrations. In order for them to have thymol stay in solution they would have to dilute it with some solvent (even oils like FGMO are solvents in this case).

I'd stay with the recipe. The debate on "synthetic" vs "natural" is still open for discussion for me.


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## jamiev (Sep 14, 2005)

Thanks for the advice I have checked with the pharmacist and so far, no luck on the thymol crystals. I'll keep looking Any suppliers on the net?


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## brent.roberts (Dec 31, 2005)

Contact Dr. Pedro Rodruigez at 

[email protected]

He has some natural thymol imported from Spain.

Most US sources are synthetic and the Europeans are reporting that synthetics have a bad effect on queens ... reduced laying and deaths. The commercail product Apilife-var has synthetics and Dr. R recommends to stay away from it.


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## JohnBeeMan (Feb 24, 2004)

try http://www.wintersunchem.com/ for crystals


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

I just ordered from Wintersun. It's $70 per kilo delivered. Good price for sure.


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

I don't have much, but if you just want to try ir, I can send you 50 gram packs for 5.00/ pack, plus shipping. one liter of fgmo and 50 grams of thymol will treat approx.120 hives, or 1 hive 120 times. It keeps well.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

Idee, I have a local fellow who wants to order thymol, are going to have it for sale right along? If so I'll give him you E-mail.

I have to share a funny story about this. When you shipped mine to dad's I forgot to tell him it was coming. He opened this unexpected package full of crystaline looking stuff baggies and about had a stroke. He actually spilled a bag on his lap fumbling around. Finally he thought to look at the sender and realized who it was. I almost died laughing when he called me to tell me about it!

[ June 16, 2006, 03:16 PM: Message edited by: Joel ]


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

It's no wonder fathers turn grey. Kids have no idea the amount of worry and fear they cause.   

I still have about 2 lbs., so I should have it available for a while yet.


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## clintonbemrose (Oct 23, 2001)

In the hives that I fog with FGMO/Thymol I have seen no corrosion with the nails or the metal queen excluders. Sorry I was so late answering but we had some major medical problems with the wife's mother and father.
The closest internet was at a ******* coffee shop 70 miles away from their house and it would not work with beesource.
Clint


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