# Pricing to Cooperate not Compete with Fellow Beekeepers



## BattenkillJB

Let's bee smart like the Canadians were about Maple Syrup pricing and get a consensus on prices that are sustainable at small marketplaces.
We shouldn't even go down near supermarket prices for what ever they call honey. So lets start the bidding at $15.00 a pound at retail stand.
What is your opinion out there? Remember lowering prices for competition is usually a downward spiral for everyone I've seen prices much too low lately.


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## jwcarlson

The word of the day is:

Collusion.


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## BattenkillJB

Collusion implies cheating or deceiving. Sharing an opinion on what we should charge is pushing back against Chinese and corporate collusion. I agree to disagree.


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## AHudd

I think $15.00 lb. is too high. Two quarts for almost $100.00 would bring on sticker shock. I wouldn't mind selling it for that, if I could.

Alex


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## jwcarlson

BattenkillJB said:


> Collusion implies cheating or deceiving. Sharing an opinion on what we should charge is pushing back against Chinese and corporate collusion. I agree to disagree.


Ok, so I'll charge $8/pound at my stand. 

Now you go.


I think everyone should be free to charge whatever they'd like to charge. If you want $15 good for you if you can get it. Why does it matter much to you what someone else is selling it for?


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## Harley Craig

jwcarlson said:


> Ok, so I'll charge $8/pound at my stand.
> 
> Now you go.


that's where I'm at.


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## jwcarlson

Harley Craig said:


> that's where I'm at.


Wait, you're at my stand?! :lpf:

We should all raise our prices to $15/pound, set a price floor, and bask in our overabundance of unsold honey. :banana: I'd love if there was someone local selling their honey for $15/pound and actually selling it. The reality is there's a local 'commercial' guy selling it for $4.79/lb and <$4/lb in a two pound jar.


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## clyderoad

you can leave me out of your price scheming.


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## Agis Apiaries

Harley Craig said:


> that's where I'm at.





jwcarlson said:


> Wait, you're at my stand?! :lpf:


Harley is buying your $8 honey and selling it for $8.50 as his stand.


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## jwcarlson

Agis Apiaries said:


> Harley is buying your $8 honey and selling it for $8.50 as his stand.


That's fine by me, I like Harley.


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## BattenkillJB

Ok, we all love free market capitalism. So let's frame this a little differently so that anyone interested in what to charge on average might get some insight.. Given groups of 5 hives for one year there are approximately $1500 in bees and equipment. We win a few lose a few. Out of those five hives three produce honey -about 150lbs.(just for arguments sake). We've heard $8.00 a lbs so we have $1200 gross income for this model. Not so good on face value. So with luck we get more honey. Oh I forgot we have the cost of jars and labels. Darn. We need even more honey. 
So folks isn't it reasonable to ask how much can we charge and still be sustainable even if we don't get paid for our time? I personally have no way to assess this in any market survey. Maybe someone does and can contribute that or we could hear from forum beekeepers their idea of a reasonable price.


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## clyderoad

as a simple starting point, charge more than the costs to produce it.


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## Brad Bee

clyderoad said:


> as a simple starting point, charge more than the costs to produce it.


$199 per pound?


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## Duncan151

BattenkillJB said:


> Let's bee smart like the Canadians were about Maple Syrup pricing and get a consensus on prices that are sustainable at small marketplaces.
> We shouldn't even go down near supermarket prices for what ever they call honey. So lets start the bidding at $15.00 a pound at retail stand.
> What is your opinion out there? Remember lowering prices for competition is usually a downward spiral for everyone I've seen prices much too low lately.


You should look into that Canadian Maple Syrup thing a little closer. No one seems to like it much, except the people who run the program!


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## AHudd

$8.00 lb. would be good, also. 

Alex


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## clyderoad

Brad Bee said:


> $199 per pound?


you want to make a profit, right?, so if that's what it costs you to produce it, yes.
it could be the costs are to high to produce a product to sell in the market place. then just eat it and forget about
a honey business.


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## cheryl1

At $199 a pound cost you need to work on lowering expenses 😉


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## Sunday Farmer

You could start a coop that purchased all the honey production and then resold at the fixed floor price. That wouldn't be collusion.

Anyways, I'm selling all mine in 5 gallon buckets this year. $8 and my winter is spent on a beach. $4 and I won't have to work.


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## Tenbears

When competitors within the same industry put their heads together to come up with a price for their product. It is called Price fixing and Illegal in this country.


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## BattenkillJB

5 hives in one season. Math: $1500 expenses divided by 150 lbs of honey = $10.00 not $199 cost per lbs. Add jars and labels. This is just an attempt at some sort of baseline.
I love my bees and enjoy having coffee with them in the morning. I just find that pushing the envelope on production isn't good for the bees. For those who would like some extra income for retirement or even their hobby it is good to how some price ballpark.


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## BattenkillJB

5 hives in one season. Math: $1500 expenses divided by 150 lbs of honey = $10.00 not $199 cost per lbs. Add jars and labels. This is just an attempt at some sort of baseline.
I love my bees and enjoy having coffee with them in the morning. I just find that pushing the envelope on production isn't good for the bees. For those who would like some extra income for retirement or even their hobby it is good to how some price ballpark.


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## Daniel Y

I am selling last years honey at $8 a lb. a lot of reasons are in that price. What you are doing here is called price fixing. and that is in fact illegal whether you think it is devious or not. It is illegal for you to get together with your competition and agree on a set price. You should actually be able to set your price based upon investment, cost and profit necessity. It costs me XXX dollars to produce a lb of honey. in order to get paid and make a profit I can figure out my price. Now if I can produce and sell at my necessary profit lower than you. then I beat you in the competition. If not then I best get better at what I do. reduce my costs etc. For a small business or hobby I use a 3X formular. it is costX3 this covers all costs + labor = price. Now the costs like gas, electricity etc that are very hard to track do not need to be you simply take the large obvious costs and the X3 takes care of other things. the difficult to identify much less calculate costs plus your businesses profit. Think of the business as a person itself that also needs to be paid. SO one of the 3X factors is that pay to your business. One of the 3X factors is simply the out of pocket money you paid out so you are doing nothing but getting your money back. the last one is covering all the no seeum costs that your spend but don't really realize it. Then because you want to get paid for your time as well you set an hourly rate for your work and add that. Now this formula leaves a lot of room to reduce prices by working faster. finder lower cost methods etc. so you can land at a competitive price. Price fixing on the other hand is getting together and figuring out what price to set because if it is the only price your product can be gotten for you can sell it for that. Illegal.


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## hivemaker

Tenbears said:


> When competitors within the same industry put their heads together to come up with a price for their product. It is called Price fixing and Illegal in this country.


ditto


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## clyderoad

BattenkillJB said:


> 5 hives in one season. Math: $1500 expenses divided by 150 lbs of honey = $10.00 not $199 cost per lbs. Add jars and labels. This is just an attempt at some sort of baseline.


the $1500 equipment costs is expensed in the first year? if so then next year, if the bees live, your expenses are only jars and labels so maybe $1.00/lb ?
so, if you want to make 10% profit this years honey is $11.00/lb and next years honey will be $1.10/lb ?
how does this help you?
how much honey are you tying to sell?
there are threads here on beesource that have discussed pricing, selling honey and making it a business, etc.

some basic book keeping help may be in order to guide you forward, and a business plan.


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## BattenkillJB

OK. Price fixing? My my. I haven't seen two beekeepers agree on which end of the bee has a stinger. I thought this might open a discussion on just what beekeepers are basing their prices on since the price of honey seemed too low at markets. Given my example using five hive set in one season and basing bee gain/loss, equipment life, supplies and other expenses including packaging. I think $10.00 a lbs might work.
But as most of you have pointed out I am an idiot and conspirator. This was fun.


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## hivemaker

BattenkillJB said:


> The price of honey seemed too low at markets. Given my example using five hive set in one season and basing bee gain/loss, equipment life, supplies and other expenses including packaging. I think $10.00 a lbs might work.


The prices are usually set based on what the market will support. If you need a guideline here are the national wholesale prices for type of honey and place of origin.
https://www.ams.usda.gov/mnreports/fvmhoney.pdf

I get 6.00 a lb and sell direct to customers. I can't produce enough to justify bottling and sending to market.


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## Kamon A. Reynolds

Maybe the problem is not the price. Maybe the problem with the beekeeper of today is they can't produce well. Also many are not sustainable. 

We have hives producing over a hundred pounds each. (We don't have the greatest honey flow either) if you can't make money at $8 a pound you have a production problem not a price problem. We build our boxes, bottom boards, lids and anything else we need besides the frames. I don't sell my honey for any more than I would pay for it. Depending on location we sell for 4-6 bucks a pound


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## Jason A

BattenkillJB said:


> Let's bee smart like the Canadians were about Maple Syrup pricing and get a consensus on prices that are sustainable at small marketplaces.
> We shouldn't even go down near supermarket prices for what ever they call honey. So lets start the bidding at $15.00 a pound at retail stand.
> What is your opinion out there? Remember lowering prices for competition is usually a downward spiral for everyone I've seen prices much too low lately.


No thanks. I'll stick with capitalism. "Price fixing" is both immoral and wrong. If you have a better product, consumers will purchase your goods/services.


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## TalonRedding

It's a very simple concept of supply and demand and whole selling vs retailing which will vary between different areas and also from year to year depending on many factors. I live in rural TN and I have NO problem selling for what I charge, which is average national retail price. You also have to ask yourself how long you want your honey supply to last. If you sell out in a month, you either aren't producing enough or you aren't pricing high enough to meet demand. This fact won't matter much to a hobbiest, but it will to the sideliner or large scale producer who aren't just trying to make the business pay for itself but also need to earn a profit. The ones who are serious about it know how much their time is worth and how much time they have in their operation. If you want return customers, you need to be reliable, otherwise all you are producing is a novelty item. It's actually a fun lesson in basic economics, and I personally think it should be taught in a similar fashion in the school systems.


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## TalonRedding

I also meant to say that I was at the grocery store the other day (Save a Lot) which is a lower end grocery store similar to Aldi for those who don't know. I snooped around for their honey prices and it cost $6.86 plus tax for a 1 lb squeeze bottle of honey, commercially produced. With the tax, it is a few cents cheaper than what I sell for. Makes me want to raise my prices...:lookout:


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## sqkcrk

jwcarlson said:


> Wait, you're at my stand?! :lpf:


No, jw, he's before the at. 

Sell your own honey for what you think it's worth and for what you can get for it. Screw whatever someone else is willing to sell theirs for. Sell your own honey.


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## sqkcrk

BattenkillJB said:


> Ok, we all love free market capitalism. So let's frame this a little differently so that anyone interested in what to charge on average might get some insight.. Given groups of 5 hives for one year there are approximately $1500 in bees and equipment. We win a few lose a few. Out of those five hives three produce honey -about 150lbs.(just for arguments sake). We've heard $8.00 a lbs so we have $1200 gross income for this model. Not so good on face value. So with luck we get more honey. Oh I forgot we have the cost of jars and labels. Darn. We need even more honey.
> So folks isn't it reasonable to ask how much can we charge and still be sustainable even if we don't get paid for our time? I personally have no way to assess this in any market survey. Maybe someone does and can contribute that or we could hear from forum beekeepers their idea of a reasonable price.


You have had a few hives on a weekend farm for a couple of years. You have a long way to go and more hives to buy and keep. It's farming. A style of business unlike others. So, unless you are in it for the long haul, best leave it to those who are and have been.

You can ask all you want about what is reasonable to charge to maintain sustainability, but unless you get out and do, instead of talk, it's all for naught.


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## sqkcrk

BattenkillJB said:


> 5 hives in one season. Math: $1500 expenses divided by 150 lbs of honey = $10.00 not $199 cost per lbs. Add jars and labels. This is just an attempt at some sort of baseline.
> I love my bees and enjoy having coffee with them in the morning. I just find that pushing the envelope on production isn't good for the bees. For those who would like some extra income for retirement or even their hobby it is good to how some price ballpark.


If you ever figure out what it cost you to produce a pound of honey, let me know. And show how you decided on that figure. I have been at this a long time and I don't know the answer to that question.


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## dtrooster

I'm trying to figure out how you spend $300 a hive without trying to. As far as getting paid for time, only a full time beekeeper who earns his only source of income with bees gets to use that one. Time spent is only worth income lost that would be earned if you were doing something else. ( I.E. a job, an extra job, or a sideline with defined income) Sitting on the couch watching the tube, barbqueing, swimming doesn't count. People crack me up talking about what there time is worth


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## beemandan

BattenkillJB said:


> But as most of you have pointed out I am an idiot and conspirator. This was fun.


 I think many people simply disagreed with you. Which you seem to have taken offense from. You wanted a discussion and you've gotten one.


BattenkillJB said:


> Given groups of 5 hives for one year there are approximately $1500 in bees and equipment.


I know of very few businesses that recover all..or even anywhere nearly all....of their start up costs in the first year. Take that $1500 and divide it up over ten...or even seven years and then recompute.


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## D Coates

I get $9 per pound. To me it doesn't matter what others are charging. Those that are too low sell out and eventually leave the market as they learn it's too hard to too little reward, or raise their prices. I focus on my product and make it look as professional and unique as possible. In a meaningful way differentiate how you get to market, what you offer in that market and how you look in that market. This differentiating adds value and allows you to sell for a price that works for you. I'll never get price shoppers as Wall Mart and local grocery stores will beat my price by at least 1/3. Don't worry about the others, worry about yourself.


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## AstroBee

While I agree with the majority of the comments posted here. I have seen some of our local long time beekeepers not keep pace with the changing market. We have several local beekeepers who have been producing honey for 50+ years and really didn't realize that $15 per quart was a bit on the low side. They were very grateful when some of the younger folks informed them on current pricing. I see nothing wrong with this kind of exchange. If someone local calls and asks me what I'm charging, I simply tell them. This information is widely available though our markets or retailers carrying our products.


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## rolftonbees

I happen to know that my honey is a bit better than most in my area. I therefore feel no problem in asking a bit more for it. I let the buyers set the price, not the other sellers.


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## aunt betty

I'm selling it by volume (gasp).
$5/cup which is 12 ounces weight.
Lets see....that's ~ $6.66/pound. 
We sell a lot of 12-ounce bears and it's easy on the change making at $5 a bear.
To get to JW's $8/pound I'd have to go up to $6/bear.

Comb is $10/pound and the chunk honey is $15/pint so I'm not undercutting anyone that bad. I get what I can and it sort of sucks that only 45 minutes away a guy is selling his honey for $35/gallon. ($3/pound) 
I get my face rubbed in that every week or so. 

Se la vi.


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## usngunr

I've been selling mine at $8.00 a lb. I had a super off of a wild hive that was dark and thick, I sold that with a description of "wild hive, very limited supply" for $10 a lb and it's sold out already. Frankly I didn't expect for it to sell like that. But my description in the listing must have worked. I've got some nice labels and hang tags coming, we'll see what happens. I've been telling the older guys around here that $15 for a quart is way cheap for real honey.  But hey, we charge what we feel it's worth. I got my bees for my honey stock, I'm growing past that. I'll not give it away though. Too many hours sweating in that veil and getting stung.


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## CessnaGirl

Around here, honey is around $10 a lb. I have a couple of friends that sell their honey for a dollar an ounce but both of them associate with the holistic/naturlistic crowd. I do however sell cut comb honey for a dollar an ounce and have no problem selling it.


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## Jason A

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/com...itrust-laws/dealings-competitors/price-fixing

_Price fixing is an agreement (written, verbal, or inferred from conduct) among competitors that raises, lowers, or stabilizes prices or competitive terms. Generally, the antitrust laws require that each company establish prices and other terms on its own, without agreeing with a competitor. When consumers make choices about what products and services to buy, they expect that the price has been determined freely on the basis of supply and demand, not by an agreement among competitors. When competitors agree to restrict competition, the result is often higher prices. Accordingly, price fixing is a major concern of government antitrust enforcement.

*A plain agreement among competitors to fix prices is almost always illegal, whether prices are fixed at a minimum, maximum, or within some range.* Illegal price fixing occurs whenever two or more competitors agree to take actions that have the effect of raising, lowering or stabilizing the price of any product or service without any legitimate justification. Price-fixing schemes are often worked out in secret and can be hard to uncover, but an agreement can be discovered from "circumstantial" evidence. For example, if direct competitors have a pattern of unexplained identical contract terms or price behavior together with other factors (such as the lack of legitimate business explanation), unlawful price fixing may be the reason. Invitations to coordinate prices also can raise concerns, as when one competitor announces publicly that it is willing to end a price war if its rival is willing to do the same, and the terms are so specific that competitors may view this as an offer to set prices jointly._


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## usngunr

I'm getting $8 a pound with no balking what so ever. It's selling fast. Regardless of size, $.50 an ounce seems to sell fine. My wild hive honey sold out in 3 days at $10 a lb. Market to it's strengths, there is a demand out there. Given a pint is a pound and a half, I'd price accordingly.


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## frogpondwarrior

usngunr said:


> I've been selling mine at $8.00 a lb. I had a super off of a wild hive that was dark and thick, I sold that with a description of "wild hive, very limited supply" for $10 a lb and it's sold out already. Frankly I didn't expect for it to sell like that. But my description in the listing must have worked. I've got some nice labels and hang tags coming, we'll see what happens. I've been telling the older guys around here that $15 for a quart is way cheap for real honey.  But hey, we charge what we feel it's worth. I got my bees for my honey stock, I'm growing past that. I'll not give it away though. Too many hours sweating in that veil and getting stung.


Did you get your labels and tags? If so do you like them and would you mind disclosing your purchasing source?
R2


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## usngunr

frogpondwarrior said:


> Did you get your labels and tags? If so do you like them and would you mind disclosing your purchasing source?
> R2


Yes, yes I did. I ended up going with our local print shop, they printed up some very nice hang tags that I tie on with some polished jute string. Love them.









Best picture I have right now.


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## sqkcrk

BattenkillJB said:


> I thought this might open a discussion on just what beekeepers are basing their prices on since the price of honey seemed too low at markets.


 Then why didn't you say so?


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## sqkcrk

hivemaker said:


> I get 6.00 a lb and sell direct to customers. I can't produce enough to justify bottling and sending to market.


 You could raise your price $2.00/ lb and still sell all you make. Then you would be closer to the retail store price and you would make more profit.


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## sqkcrk

Tennessee's Bees LLC said:


> I don't sell my honey for any more than I would pay for it. Depending on location we sell for 4-6 bucks a pound


 I can't believe you aren't loosing money doing that. Is that the retail price?


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## usngunr

I get $8.00 US a pound with absolutely no qualms and I'm sold out in short order.


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## sqkcrk

TalonRedding said:


> Makes me want to raise my prices...:lookout:


 You should. I sell all of my honey direct store delivery wholesale. My honey is more expensive than any other honey on the grocery store shelf and it moves. Moves just as fast if not faster than the store brand, which is cheaper and often on sale.


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## CoryM465

BattenkillJB said:


> Let's bee smart like the Canadians were about Maple Syrup pricing and get a consensus on prices that are sustainable at small marketplaces.
> We shouldn't even go down near supermarket prices for what ever they call honey. So lets start the bidding at $15.00 a pound at retail stand.
> What is your opinion out there? Remember lowering prices for competition is usually a downward spiral for everyone I've seen prices much too low lately.


I'll take my chances with the free market before I work with people like you! #MakeHoneyGreatAgain!


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## frogpondwarrior

BattenkillJB said:


> Let's bee smart like the Canadians were about Maple Syrup pricing and get a consensus on prices that are sustainable at small marketplaces.
> We shouldn't even go down near supermarket prices for what ever they call honey. So lets start the bidding at $15.00 a pound at retail stand.
> What is your opinion out there? Remember lowering prices for competition is usually a downward spiral for everyone I've seen prices much too low lately.


That is a Quebec thing. We don't have this in New Brunswick.


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## frogpondwarrior

frogpondwarrior said:


> That is a Quebec thing. We don't have this in New Brunswick.


Actually in Quebec you have to sell your syrup to the marketing board. It is illegal to sell it on your own. They own it and set the price. You certainly don't want this......free market all the way please and thank you!


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## wertzsteve

off my 1 and only hive I got 1 gallon and 2 splits. sold 10 pounds for 10 dollars a pound at the and kept 4 pounds for my self hoped to do better this year.


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## Gypsi

Supply and demand rule. I get very little honey because of our weather, flow, and being surrounded by dry grassland in drought half the time. I don't care if I sell my honey or not, as I get very little. My business model is services rather than honey sales. I charge $10 for 8 oz. they want to buy cheaper, well the feed store honey is higher. and the corn syrup in the grocery store honey section is cheaper. It is up to the consumer.


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## 220

Interested if the prices people quote they are selling honey for are the price for honey or the price they sell honey packaged. 
Im in Aus and new to bees but did read one post on this forum that made a lot of sense to me.

Set your price for honey $ lb/kg that you are happy with
add 3x container cost to get your sale price for packaged honey.

The 3x container cost covers the container the & labels the consumer is purchasing along with the honey, time to bottle and gives you funds to purchase additional containers.

With this method you get the same $ lb/kg regardless of the size you sell in. The consumer pays more if they want a premium jar, smaller jar etc. Obviously if they buy in larger containers the consumer would think they are getting a discount on the price per lb/kg but are actually paying the same $ lb/kg you are just passing along the reduced cost to you as a producer in the packaging.


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## sqkcrk

Well, 220, I don't know what others do, but I sell, by the case, one pound jars of honey, labeled and capped, for $5.00 each in cases of 12. I think a case of empty new glass one pound jars costs me $7.00. Caps about 10 cents each, or $1.20 per dozen, and labels about 15 cents each, 2 labels per jar most cases, or $3.60 per case for labels. So that's $60.00 per case of one pound jars of honey minus $11.80 which equals $48.20. $4.01 per pound for the honey itself, if I did my calculations correctly.

I never have bought honey not in some sort of container.


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## razoo

The Garden Centre down the road, which has ten hives, sells their honey for $16 per pound. 
I have never had the guts to charge that much. 

I sell 1lb plastic squeeze jars for $10
And 12 ounce squeeze bears for $10
The occasional customer does the (very basic) math , looks at me quizzically and says but I get more honey in the regular jars! Many fall for the cute bears and are happy to pay. Go figure.
It sells to people who want local raw honey. 
Folks who don't care go to the grocery store and get theirs for $4 a pound.


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## Daniel Y

sqkcrk said:


> Well, 220, I don't know what others do, but I sell, by the case, one pound jars of honey, labeled and capped, for $5.00 each in cases of 12. I think a case of empty new glass one pound jars costs me $7.00. Caps about 10 cents each, or $1.20 per dozen, and labels about 15 cents each, 2 labels per jar most cases, or $3.60 per case for labels. So that's $60.00 per case of one pound jars of honey minus $11.80 which equals $48.20. $4.01 per pound for the honey itself, if I did my calculations correctly.
> 
> I never have bought honey not in some sort of container.


So you invest $11.80 in every case of honey you sell. For how long? Do you make money on that investment? If not why not? Do you make any money for the service you provided for there to even be a label a box, a bottle or a cap in the first place. If not why do you work for nothing? I have lot of work for you at that rate by the way. What about the cost you pay to market your honey and make it possible for your customer to find you? What about the time it takes you to deliver that product or be available for it to be picked up? Now you may say that $4 a lb is for your time to keep bees remove honey extract it bottle it. label it purchase bottles labels caps and transport it to your customer. I say you work dirt cheap and don't get a cent for most of what you do. You would not get me to come work for you for that same formula. and you would not borrow my money to purchase your packaging for free either. I don't borrow my own money to do so for free either. My money when invested makes me money. I have bottles that when sold make me more money than the honey that is inside them. I guess you could then consider me a bottle salesman that throws in honey for free. I don't care as long as it sells.


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## Rader Sidetrack

Daniel Y said:


> I have bottles that when sold make me more money than the honey that is inside them. I guess you could then consider me a bottle salesman that throws in honey for free.


One needs to consider the 'scale of the operation' when pricing honey. As I recall, Daniel supports his family with a state government job, not honey sales. Mark (_sqkcrk_) is producing honey on a larger scale and supporting his family on his beekeeping income.

I'd say that if Daniel needed to support his family on his beekeeping income its likely that his pricing strategy would be different than his current thinking.


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## razoo

Rader Sidetrack said:


> One needs to consider the 'scale of the operation' when pricing honey. As I recall, Daniel supports his family with a state government job, not honey sales. Mark (_sqkcrk_) is producing honey on a larger scale and supporting his family on his beekeeping income.
> 
> I'd say that if Daniel needed to support his family on his beekeeping income its likely that his pricing strategy would be different than his current thinking.


Yeah, agree. As a hobby beekeeper I just try to sell enough honey to offset most of the costs. I don't factor in my time at all in the costs, but as a small time backyard beekeeper with a regular income elsewhere I don't need to. I find folks who are willing to pay a bit more for raw local honey. Just met someone who drives an hour one way to get raw local honey for $12 per pound.

But if I were to do this on a larger scale, then I would have to reconsider a lot of how I do things. I would need a way to move larger quantities of honey more regularly, probably in bulk, factor in cost of my time, etc. 

While I may make a "profit" some years, this is not substantial. In a good year it might be enough to pay for a nice family vacation, but certainly not enough to pay the mortgage.


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## swampdonkey

everybody is soooo upset about "price fixing"...yet nobody complains when the government does it...."state Minimum" pricing.


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