# nails or staples?



## coondogger (May 30, 2007)

Here's how it started. Last week my wife ran over my compressor with her car. Sears was advertising a sale (there's something you don't see every day. Oh, wait a minute. You do see that every day. Sorry.) So I drove over to buy a new compressor. That's when the light went on. Instead of hammering in the nail while assembling frames, I could be shooting them in with a nailer.
Or better yet, a stapler. So here's the question. Which is better nails or staples? The air tool is a foregone conclusion.


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## Grant (Jun 12, 2004)

I mulled this same question myself and went with a brad nailer that handles nails from 5/8" up to 1-1/4" It's an electric model. I think I paid around $50 to $60.

I wanted the versatility in case I wanted to nail something else. But you know what? The only thing I use my brad nailer for is frames. I could have gone with the stapler. I think I'd ask myself what length of nail/staples my application called for, then buy the tool that best uses those nails/staples. Some tools have limits as to which size/style they'll handle.

Grant
Jackson, MO http://www.makingplasticframeswork.homestead.com


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## YellowBee (Jan 22, 2008)

*nails or staples*

I use to use a brad nailer and found that the frames come apart too easily. I now use a crown air nailer and it is the very best. The frames are together so well that if you pull on the top bar and the bottom bar in opposite directions you will break the bottom bar before it comes loose. 
I use a frame rig that I made so I just pop them into the super 10 at a time.


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## Matt Guyrd (Nov 28, 2007)

YellowBee said:


> I now use a crown air nailer and it is the very best.


Does a Crown Air Nailer shoot a staple or a nail? I'm guessing a staple. What length staple are you using?

Do you use glue in addition to the nails/staples?

Thanks.
Matt


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## richski (Dec 2, 2007)

From a Michael Bush post.

I bought a 1/4" crown stapler from Walter T. Kelly, but you can buy them at any lumber yard.

I use 1" staples for the frames. I also have them all the way from 1/4" to 1 1/2". I use the 1 1/2" to put boxes together. I should screw them (I used to) but the stapler is so fast and handy. I use the 1/4" for putting screen on bottom boards etc. I have 1 1/4" for nailing cleats on the sides of boxes (1 1/2" on the ends) because 1 1/4" won't stick through two 3/4" boards. I use the stapler a lot.

I use exterior wood glue like Elmers exterior carpenter glue or Titebond.


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## honeyman46408 (Feb 14, 2003)

I use a 1/4" crown stapler for frames, I had the stapler before bees but now have 2.

It is a staple not nail.

I use 1/4" X 3/4" for frames NO glue some guys use glue also.


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## Dan Williamson (Apr 6, 2004)

Go with a narrow crown stapler. Its essentially the same as driving 2 brads into the frame at the same time but less likely to come apart as brads have very little head on them.

I glue and staple. I put 10 staples and glue into every frame. Overkill... yeah... but I'm ok with that!  

500 frames done... 1000 frames yet to go!


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

I use a brad nailer. I don't have a problem with nails pulling. The trick is to shoot them at right angles to the direction of the pull. And use glue, the nail is just a clamp until the glue dries. This shows how I nail, 4 nails per frame and done. The joints are pinned.
http://www.myoldtools.com/Bees/framejig/


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## Matt Guyrd (Nov 28, 2007)

Ross said:


> And use glue, the nail is just a clamp until the glue dries.



That makes good sense to me. For those of you that use nails/staples, do you have issues with the fastener rusting? I suppose the fasteners used on the boxes would likely get painted over and protected. What about moisture in the hive and any effects on the fasteners used on the frames? Do they tend to rust?

Or is all of this moot because the fasteners are stainless  or use some other exterior coating?

Thanks!
Matt


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## Brent Bean (Jun 30, 2005)

If you have been hammering them in by hand and you try a air nailer, 
(I use 18ga. brad nails) you will never go back. The time and ease it takes to assemble equipment using an pneumatic verses a hammer and elbow grease is like racing a Conestoga wagon verses the Ami-track. 
I haven’t used staples but think they would work good on frames. Don’t forget to use wood glue.


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## Durandal (Sep 5, 2007)

Harbor Freight

They have a 18ga brad/ 1/4" stapler/nailer for 19.99.

I've been using mine for months now for all sort of things (renovating house, put together 300 frames, and installed 300 sheets of foundation. I put the frames together with a staple and the the wedge with a short brad.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>From a Michael Bush post.

Wow. Beat me to it.


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## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

my stapler from Grizzly misfires (fails to fire a staple) a lot, do you guys have similar problems?

Dave


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

I have a narrow crown stapler for frames, and a wide crown stapler for boxes, bottoms, and covers. 

One thing about stapling frames. I used to use 2 - 1 3/8 staples on each end of the top bar, just as you would with nails. I found I was breaking a lot of top bar lugs when the supers were placed into service. You know how if you try to break a stick, it is difficult, but if you score the stick with your knife, it breaks easily. Well, that's what I think happens with staples. If you use 2, it makes a score across the top bar, weakening the top bar. I now use one staple and glue. I don't seem to be having the problem in my newer equipment.


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## Brent Bean (Jun 30, 2005)

I bought the same brad nailer that Durandal did several years ago and have worked the dickens out of it without a single problem. Once in a while you get a good tool for a little money and this was one of them. I would match it’s performance to any on the market and for a fraction of the price.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

I use wide crown staples for the super and frame assembly.
I use 2.5" truss screws for my super cleats. Ring shank nails are used by some beekeepers.
The reason for the wide crown staples is so that they straddle the saw kerf bottom bar and then we snap in the Pierco black foundation which is sprayed with bees wax. The frames are full depth but the top bars is about 1/2 the length of a standard top bar. The custom frames are made by Mr. Yorty in Oregon.
The staples are galvanized and coated with glue so that the glue holds the staple in place. It is you choice.
I use a 2" wide crown staple for the top bars and a 1.5" wide crown staple for the bottom bar. They are strong. The staples can be bought that go into the wood straight or with a little twist. Soak the wood in water at least for 15 minutes to prevent splitting. Our local relative humisity can be 15-20%. We assembled a few thousand last year and they are stock piled for queen production this spring. 
No glue is needed.
We made our own inside feeders too. We did seal the feeders will a high quaility sealant. The feeders were dipped twice in 140 degree melting point parrafin and we will use 160 degree MP parrafin this season.
Just waiting for the proper time to graft. No hurry until the drones are emerged.
Regards,
Ernie
Lucas Apiaries


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## Dan Williamson (Apr 6, 2004)

Michael Palmer said:


> I have a narrow crown stapler for frames, and a wide crown stapler for boxes, bottoms, and covers.
> 
> One thing about stapling frames. I used to use 2 - 1 3/8 staples on each end of the top bar, just as you would with nails. I found I was breaking a lot of top bar lugs when the supers were placed into service. You know how if you try to break a stick, it is difficult, but if you score the stick with your knife, it breaks easily. Well, that's what I think happens with staples. If you use 2, it makes a score across the top bar, weakening the top bar. I now use one staple and glue. I don't seem to be having the problem in my newer equipment.


Interesting that you mention that.... I had the same problem this past season. This year I've only been putting one staple on top and two under the end of the top bar. I'm thinking maybe I should just put one under the top bar.


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## Jeffzhear (Dec 2, 2006)

I went with a compressed air Bostitch narrow crown stapler the end of last year and swear by it. After hammering all these years, I would never go back. It does a great job and has yet to misfire or jam.


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

Ross said:


> the nail is just a clamp until the glue dries. This shows how I nail, 4 nails per frame and done. The joints are pinned.
> http://www.myoldtools.com/Bees/framejig/


Same here. If the glue dried instantly I would not even use the brads.


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## coondogger (May 30, 2007)

Reading the posts on this thread confirmed my original plan. I went and bought a pneumatic stapler. It's a Sears Craftsman model which uses either
staples or brads. So it's very versatile and I'm alaready getting a lot of use out of this tool. As far as assembing frames, it's made the job far less tedious and frustrating. I don't even use a jig. I simply hold a small t-square against the corner of the frame and staple. It's fast and easy. And they come out perfectly square. I just sit at my workbench and knock out one after another. I sorta feel like a bee.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Dan Williamson said:


> Interesting that you mention that.... I had the same problem this past season. This year I've only been putting one staple on top and two under the end of the top bar. I'm thinking maybe I should just put one under the top bar.


Thanks, Dan. I'm glad someone else noticed this happening. Confirms what I thought.
Mike


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## nc_beekeeper (Jul 11, 2007)

I've used them all and the crown stapler is definitely the way to go. I bought the Hitachi 1 1/2" from lowes for $99 and it works great putting anything from hives to frames together. 

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=101261-67702-N3804AB3


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