# Indoor Honey bee Hives



## ruthiesbees

Indoor hives are much harder to maintain. Most who use them, also have outside hives to swap resources with the OB hive. If you search around in this forum, you should find a couple of posts where people have build their own. Michael Bush also has some info on his website regarding them (he has lots of great info on his site) http://bushfarms.com/beesobservationhives.htm


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## IWASHERE

ruthiesbees said:


> Indoor hives are much harder to maintain. Most who use them, also have outside hives to swap resources with the OB hive. If you search around in this forum, you should find a couple of posts where people have build their own. Michael Bush also has some info on his website regarding them (he has lots of great info on his site) http://bushfarms.com/beesobservationhives.htm


Thank you for all of this information and suggestions. What type of resources get swapped?


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## enjambres

Indoor hives are usually a very unstable, unnatural environment - difficult for the bees to live in long term.

So the "resources" that get swapped out are frames of stores and bees. They rotate between being in observation hives and outside in regular beehives to recover from being cooped up in small, unnaturally shaped spaces.

There is another subset of "indoor bees" and those are bees (usually in large commercial operations) who are wintered in climate controlled sheds, stacked on pallets, in the dark. This is usually done in very severe climates, but even then the trick is to keep them cold enough to survive as that many bees give off a startling large heat load. And the need for constant ventilation is considerable.

If you are interested in bees, get a couple of hives and learn to care for them outside. You'll have more success starting out that way. Then once you've got an appreciation for the demands of beekeeping in general, you'll better equipped to set up an observation hive. And you have what the bees need to do as well as they can in one.

Enj.


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## IWASHERE

enjambres said:


> Indoor hives are usually a very unstable, unnatural environment - difficult for the bees to live in long term.
> 
> So the "resources" that get swapped out are frames of stores and bees. They rotate between being in observation hives and outside in regular beehives to recover from being cooped up in small, unnaturally shaped spaces.
> 
> There is another subset of "indoor bees" and those are bees (usually in large commercial operations) who are wintered in climate controlled sheds, stacked on pallets, in the dark. This is usually done in very severe climates, but even then the trick is to keep them cold enough to survive as that many bees give off a startling large heat load. And the need for constant ventilation is considerable.
> 
> If you are interested in bees, get a couple of hives and learn to care for them outside. You'll have more success starting out that way. Then once you've got an appreciation for the demands of beekeeping in general, you'll better equipped to set up an observation hive. And you have what the bees need to do as well as they can in one.
> 
> Enj.


I can see how they are not natural environments. Most bee hives are made unnaturally, but what makes these types of hives unstable? Can you link me to your sources? OR have you tried indooring for several seasons and seen the affects it has?

To establish what I mean by an indoor hive here is a basic description: Same as outside hive, but brought indoors, and has a tube connecting it to the outside world. 

I appreciate the suggestion. I do have several hives and have worked on others. I am looking at a different way to appreciate bees.


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## Phoebee

We had a talk at PWRBA last year, and the write-up is linked below. Frank Linton has a book out on the subject of keeping hives indoors.

I keep two nucs in an unheated workshop. I just built an entrance system, 1 1/2" vinyl tubing to a window landing board. I constructed an entrance "foyer" that couples the tube to the entrance of a nuc. Two thin sheet metal hatches close off the hive and the foyer so I can take the nuc outside to inspect. I have not found a problem with overwintering indoors in an unheated area. One thrived last winter, and I am going for two this winter. In a heated building, Dr. Linton has noticed that they are not completely sustainable. I believe you'll find he rotates them out. Indoor hives at nature centers I think do the same. In winter, a hive in a heated area won't cluster, but will keep burning stores and may keep making brood. With no forage this means artificial feeding. Plus they don't get conditions that may help kill off parasites.

http://pwrbeekeepers.com/news/local-beekeeper-publishes-book-on-observation-hives/

"Northern Virginia’s own Dr. Frank Linton publishes book on Observation Hives. The Observation Hive Handbook: Studying Honey Bees at Home. by Frank Linton (Author), Clarence H Collison (Foreword)."


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## ruthiesbees

Observation hives are mostly 2 dimensional vs. the 3 dimensional space in the bee hive. The bees do not like to maintain the flat brood nest. They much prefer the football shaped natural one in their beehive. Temperature and bee pheromones are two of the things that get out of wack in an observation hive. The bees just do a lot more work to "exist". It is not impossible to keep an OB hive, just more work on the beekeeper's part. You may need to add a frame of bees or food, or sometimes remove a frame of brood if they get too crowded.

I understand the desire to see the bees in the winter. Hubby won't let me keep a real OB hive in the house year round due to the need to cut a hole in a window somewhere for their entrance, but I will bring a small nuc sized colony in for a couple of weeks in the severe weather in late Jan, just for the fun of it. Our winters are mild in this part of VA, so I mostly just sit outside on nice days and watch them through the large window of my topbar hives. I have built 2 different OB hives that hold my topbar hive bars. I can even connect them with tubing for the bees to go between the two. These are not truly OB hives since the measurements are "all wrong" for comb building. I call them my display hives and they are mostly used for a weekend at the county fair, etc.


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## Phoebee

ruthiesbees said:


> Hubby won't let me keep a real OB hive in the house year round due to the need to cut a hole in a window somewhere for their entrance, but I will bring a small nuc sized colony in for a couple of weeks in the severe weather in late Jan, just for the fun of it.


Tell him that's no excuse. You don't need a hole in the house, just a hole in a board that fits in the window below the bottom sash. I attach 1 1/2" clear vinyl hose to the window and my entrance foyer using plastic hose barbs. There is a small landing board added below the entrance on the window board. Watching bees use the entrance tube is great fun.

My original reason for doing the indoor nuc was to prevent a parent hive from robbing the nuc. The entrance looks so different from a conventional hive that the bees in the main apiary don't seem to find it, and the long tube is better than a robbing screen. Each bee entering meets dozens coming out, so it would be hard to miss an intruder. In fact, I had some suspicions that the nuc was robbing the parent hive.


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## Tenbears

I would like to take a moment to dispel a few myths about Observation hives, 
I have had and maintained 5 separate Observation hives all 8 frame hives with 2 rows of 4 deep frames. For well over 20 years in heated buildings.

Indoor hives are usually a very unstable, unnatural environment - difficult for the bees to live in long term.

So the "resources" that get swapped out are frames of stores and bees. They rotate between being in observation hives and outside in regular beehives to recover from being cooped up in small, unnaturally shaped spaces.

Within my life as a beekeeper I have opened many hollow trees to remove bees and resources. More often than not the bees have but a few long combs running from the top of the cavity downward several feet rather than many short combs. I only find a great number of shorter combs in man made cavities. IE: houses, Barns, and old drums Etc. So the shape of an observation is only unnatural from a human standpoint. 
Of those 100+ combined years of bee inhabitation of those observation hive I have only lost ONE colony. That was due to a design flaw in a particular hive. I have never had to add brood to one, I have never had queenless struggles as I have with some apiary hives. One can see when the bees are running low on stores, one can see when the colony is becoming overcrowded, One can see a brood area becoming backfilled. Management consist of splitting the hive twice a year, and treating for mites. a pre swarm split done at the pinnacle of spring build up taking the queen and leaving brood from which to build a new queen provides one with a new colony with a post solstice queen. while providing the observation hive with a fresh young queen. That will grow the hive until August when another split will be required. Feeding this split heavily will ready it as an overwintering nuc to be sold in the spring. and the Observation hive will be overwintered with a post solstice queen to begin the cycle again. 
The growth and development within an observation hive is so predictable that I can monitor the one in my studio and by it's progression predict the progress of the other four observation hives. The constant intrusion free monitoring of the hive with no smoke, no disruption of the status quo make for healthy happy bees. 

An added bonus of an observation hive is I have see the daily progress of every facet of bee life. I have see the day to day progression of queen development, I have heard queens pipe and heard the responding pipes or sometimes quacks. I have witnessed two virgins do battle. Daily observation has proved theories and disproves an equal amount. 

I am not saying that every Observation hive will yield the same results because there are many different types and styles. However if one approaches an observation hive with the bees in the forefront of their mind, and noting else. Not cost, not space, not time, Nothing! then an Observation hive can be an interesting, educational, and fun tool.

I also overwinter between 18 and 30 4 frame nucs with newly bred queens in a heated building with great success.


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## brushwoodnursery

Really great observations, Tenbears! Thanks for sharing!


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## mcon672

Tenbears which of the observation hives that you have used is the best in your opinion? What are important features to look for in an ob hive?


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## Tenbears

I built mine long before they were commercially available. there are several features that I consider very important. 
1, if you plan on treating for mites you must consider How and incorporate that into the design. OAV is marvelous of a Observation hive so you beed to consider how you will block the ventilation off and how you will remove excess fumes from the building. 

2, think about feeding and how to easily add necessary syrup and supplements conveniently.

3' an easy queen introduction chamber is very handy and can save a lot of backbreaking work.

4' the hive need to be able to be sealed up and taken outside for major work, IE: splits, clean glass, manage hive.


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## Phoebee

Ah, someone finally admits it ... these suckers can get _HEAVY!_ 

My two indoor nucs can be lifted but they're a pain. One is presently a deep and two mediums, and they've put away a full load of capped honey in the top medium. That sucker is a strain to lift off their table and take outside for inspection. In a few weeks I hope to have a new deep hive body for it with side windows, so it will have to go outside to transfer the frames to introduce that. I'm figuring a 10-frame obs hive (5 high deeps, two frames thick), would be about as heavy. Every time I have to lift that thing I start thinking about an overhead lift. Maybe a small engine hoist.


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## brushwoodnursery

Phoebee said:


> Maybe a small engine hoist.


:applause:

The one I manage at our local Nature Center is built for durability in a public setting. It takes two people to move; 100lbs+. Amazingly, it was designed with just 5 deeps. I've since modified it to 9. Less chance of seeing brood but the Director said that wasn't necessary. It's the overall educational effect he's after. They're building me a cart to transfer and roll it out.


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## Aroc

Banderras has a nice selection of hives to choose from. Yes they are expensive but if you have a little woodworking skill you can purchase plans and build one. I am almost done with an 8 frame wall mount hive I will be installing for next spring.


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## brushwoodnursery

I bought their pdf and it has helped with my own design plans.


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## razoo

Aroc said:


> Banderras has a nice selection of hives to choose from. Yes they are expensive but if you have a little woodworking skill you can purchase plans and build one. I am almost done with an 8 frame wall mount hive I will be installing for next spring.


Who or what is banderass? Do you have a link for them?


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## Slow Drone

razoo said:


> Who or what is banderass? Do you have a link for them?


I believe Aroc means Bonterra.


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## Aroc

Slow Drone said:


> I believe Aroc means Bonterra.


It is Bonterra and there is a link on the right side of the page.


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## emrude

http://www.bonterrabees.com/

Mary
(wishing to have OB hive, but can't figure out where) :scratch:


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## ToeOfDog

Tenbears said:


> 3' an easy queen introduction chamber is very handy and can save a lot of backbreaking work.


Tenbears:

Thank you for your two informative posts in this thread. I am investigating getting an OH. Suitable plans have not been located yet so I may be planning one too. 

1) Are you aware of any good plans?
2) would you elaborate on the queen introduction chamber. 
3) Could you give a rough estimate how heavy a 4 x1wide deep frame OH would be?

Thanks


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