# Starving singles in 2009 Almonds



## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

*California conditions*

No problem we'll just bring in a few more Australian bees they are so much better than the US bees. Plus it's beneficial to the local state and national economy to be sending that money down under.


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

*Out of staters*

Who DIDN'T get their paycheck, will be moving in to something to feed their bees, like BLOOMING ORCHARDS!!...opcorn:


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

Follow the money trail. I am sure someone is getting a kickback on these Aussie bees. Can't you Calf. beeks get together and partition to keep these bees out of the state? For that matter it seems like a good thing to be brought up in the next Annual American Honey Producers Assoc. meeting. We need a lobby of beeks and beek friendly organizations to start working harder on keeping the tainted Chinese and other imported honey out and out of country bees as well. 

I was going to say that the National Honey Board should be working on these, but one of the board members is too busy mixing in tainted Chinese honey into American honey to be worried about American Beeks interest.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Looks like its gonna be a real wet month.Time to make a sugar run today and get ready to slog out into the wet orchards.There will always be some that can use some feed.
If unable to drive to them with syrup,keep in mind that a backpack with 50 lbs of dry sugar and a pan dipper will keep them alive in an emergency situation.


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## irwin harlton (Jan 7, 2005)

*National honey board annoucement*

We regret to inform you that we will no longer be producing regular monthly BeeMail issues. You are welcome to use the "unsubscribe" link below to remove yourself from our e-mail list. 
We have also moved our head office to Bejing , so our directors do not have so far to travel


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

*Ahpa*

Is actively lobbying, RIGHT NOW on our behalf to stop the importation of Australian bees. It's expensive though.


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

*American Honey Producers Assoc.*

Like Tom said these guys are actually working on behalf of the US Beekeeper. And like Tom mentioned lobbying is expensive.

So if you would like to support their efforts for the benefit of all of us consider becoming a member.

http://www.americanhoneyproducers.org/Membership/membership.htm


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## Missoura (Feb 12, 2009)

I for one beekeeper like being able to get Aussie packages if I need to. Has only happened once but saved our almond contracts and we were very happy with the bees.

Aussie packages have been a valuable tool to a few beekeepers doing almonds. Little value when U.S. package and queen producers are up an running.

Like all tools demand drops when need drops. One Aussie supplier told me he sent a fifth of the packages in this season as he did the last few years.

Aussie packages went into Canada without problems for over two decades. IAPV has been in the U.S. for years and did not come first from the Aussie import ( like our so called experts said) and there is absolutely no proof IAPV is an issue in a bee with a strong immune system.


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## Bizzybee (Jan 29, 2006)

How about we don't get into one of those contests! You folks are capable of expressing yourselves better.............

Thanks


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## pahvantpiper (Apr 25, 2006)

Welcome aboard Missoura. I'm glad your experience with Assie bees has been better than mine. I bought a couple hundred queens two years ago to try and they were a complete failure. Started off gangbusters but then 90% got the worst chalk I've ever seen. Most didn't make into winter their fist year. Lots of Nosema too. 

Anyway, back on topic. I'm heading out next week to feed my light hives. One more trip to California.....Ugh!!!!


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

I'm not sure that the Australian imports into Canada have been 'trouble free'.

"Kashmir Bee Virus (KBV) was diagnosed in the Fraser Valley in the spring of 2004, in a commercial operation whose honeybee colonies had declined and subsequently died. It has also been recently found in colonies that appear healthy.

The virus had previously been diagnosed in British Columbia in the early 1980s, in honeybee stock originally imported from Australia and New Zealand. At that time, well before the Varroa mite arrived, no symptoms had been observed and therefore, KBV was not a concern. "
http://www.agf.gov.bc.ca/apiculture/factsheets/230_kashmir.htm


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

Although this is off topic about the cold weather and the rain I would hardily disagree that the Aussie queens are horrendous when it comes to chalk brood for sure and possibly some unknown things also. Over ten thousand of the AU packages went in within 20 miles of me the past month and all I can say is I'm glad my mating yards for queens are far away enough from where they jump to after the Almonds. These Aussie queens have no "experience" in their genetics with the mites all the other junk we've been dealing with and don't survive the winter as a result. In the long run I don't think their DRONES will be helpful in our battle with the mites etal. They are great for saving your *** if all your bees die in the winter but aren't part of the long term solution we need. Unless you requeen them ASAP they will do you no good in the long run. One of the big beeks by me who has purchesed nearly 10k of them the last three years has continued to have some of the biggest losses around. 

How many US beeks that have hives unrented in the Almonds or recieved a crumby price because of the AU packages are happy they are here?

The only thing I can say positive about them is that if they are the only thing holding back the Canadian and Mexican hives from promenading into the Almonds at any time in the future I'm all for them. For those who are working on keeping them out please remember there are possible ramifications to doing so. The Almond growers have a whole lot more political clout than we do. You might get something worse than the problems we have now!!!!!! :lookout:


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## Nick Noyes (Apr 28, 2005)

I was told by a reliable source that the almond board wrote a letter stating that they no longer felt aussie pkgs were needed. Along with AHPA, ABF and PAm.
My experience with them was not good lots of chalk brood and never made much honey. Short term solution to a long term problem.


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## Matt Beekman (Dec 15, 2007)

*Aussie Packages*

A long time family friend got some aussie packages this winter; and they were infest with SHB. Buyer beware!


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

I'd have to agree with Nick On the Aussie pacs. Better than nothing but not by much. They must be requeened otherwise unlikely they will be around 12 months later. Lots of chalkbrood, kinda defensive bees, don't produce lots of honey. If they are split then the queenless unit will lose so many adult bees, they fly off and commit suicide. This has been my experience with 2 of the 3 main suppliers. I realize not all suppliers are equal. Judging by the reports looks like some things never change. So in my opinion too say that those bees have been problem free for the Canadians is a bit of a stretch.

One huge difference between the U.S. and Canadian market was the freight. The U.S. bees go from Sydney to the States non stop. The bees destined for Canada would go thru Hong Kong. So they would get off the plane sit on the tarmac then eventually go in cold storage then embark on the flight to Vancouver about 22 hours later. This was the biggest risk in the whole deal. Leaving a pallet of bees to the airport folks in Hong Kon. It's hot at that time of the year. Lots of loads got damaged that way. Someone forgot to do their job at the airport. That was a hard learning curve for the airport folks, it came at the expense of the suppliers. The airport folks kinda figured it out but every year at least one pallet would get damaged on the way to Canada.

Jean-Marc


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## JBJ (Jan 27, 2005)

Second the posts 13 & 14. If we can get the imports halted it will take a few years to undo the damage. Mites virus and chalk will cull the most susceptible, but the hybrids with our heartier local stock may be another story. There may be a few good traits to be had, but at what price? 

The market affects associated with long term drought in the forecast plus the risk from T. clariae and A. cerana make imports more problematic and dangerous than ever.


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## MABee (Jun 18, 2007)

*Shb*

Matt, Know you are in Central Valley. Where is your friends outfit located? Does this mean we are in for hive beetle infestation in CA or the C valley?


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## JBJ (Jan 27, 2005)

I think they have been there for a while and just kept hush.


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## Allen Martens (Jan 13, 2007)

Honey-4-All said:


> The only thing I can say positive about them is that if they are the only thing holding back the Canadian and Mexican hives from promenading into the Almonds


I think as long as canadians don't allow US pacs and bees on comb into Canada, you won't need to worry about canadian bees in almonds.


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

*C and M bees in the Almonds*

When the border got closed to US packages alot of guys here took a huge hit on their gross as the almonds weren't priced that high. If I remember right the price was probably was in the $25-30 range when it happened. Right now I think most of us who sell packages can pretty well get rid of everything we can produce at a fair price. If the border opened up next week for bees going both ways I don't think that it would do us beeks in California any good on the margins. Right now I think wee'd be on the losing end of the deal as the price in the almonds would probably go down more than the price of packages would go up. Anything we would gain by opening up the Canadian market to packages would be a wash at the best. If some one in California disagrees with this I'd love to hear their rational. :scratch:


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## Missoura (Feb 12, 2009)

Honey-4-all,

The biggest boon for the California package producer was being able to raise package prices when you saw the industry would pay the higher price for the Aussie package. The next year you raised your prices.

the second biggest boon was the find of small hive beetle in Florida . At first beekeepers bought into the idea paying an extra 25-35 a package to get SHB free packages was worth the cost. Now that most California packages contain a few SHB (California package producers best kept secret) many Midwest commercial beekeepers are returning to buying packages from the south. 

MABee
Many beekeepers from the Midwest which have been to almonds and returned to the Midwest brought back SHB in their operations. Many of those beekeepers hives had never been in an area known to contain SHB other than California.

This was Years before the Aussie SHB find was found.


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

*Wow*

What is bad is NOT!

IT'S GOOD!!! WOW!:lpf:


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

*Packages with beetles*



Well Missoura, 

All the package prices here are set by one thing. Market demand (and costs). Some guys dump thousands of them at $40 a pop and others sell individual ones at $100.

If you can get them cheaper in the south go for it. The cost of business in Cali is higher and if the dems in the legislature get their way with the Arnold and a few Republicans in the near future you will certainly not see any prices dropping from anybody here. 

As for the shb. We didn't invent them here. Someone else brought them in. 

Two weeks ago there was a load of bees here from NY parked about 2 miles from me. The bees are spread all over now in the Almonds. They've been here three or four years and the beek who owns them treats for SHB I've heard. As to why I don't know unless they do have shb. Fortunately I haven't seen them in any of our hives here yet yet. I don't think they will survive our soil and climate. I may be wrong. We shake bees at a lot of other operations within a 70 mile radius in exchange for queens and straight out purchase and I've never seen one in any of the hives yet. Only in the alcohol jar at Mann Lake in Woodland. If you got beetles in packages it was likely from someone south as the soil is more conducive to their replication although I do find it unussual that the word has not gotten out that "so and so" has a big beetle problem in California. Maybe I missed it. I talk with customers all over the country; Practically every state expect Hawaii and the stories I hear about the beetles from people in the south aren't even specs on the radar in Cali. 

If can't say I'm sorry for those poor souls who showed up for the almonds and got the "Clap" of SHB while doing the dance.(If they actually did) No one forced one of them to show up to the party we been tending to for a long time. I bet you a large lunch at the driveup window that it was it 
an out of stater who brought the "SHB-CLAP-SHB" here in the first place. Can anyone say Florida or Georgia?"


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Honey-4-All said:


> As for the shb. We didn't invent them here. Someone else brought them in.


The weren't invented here either.



Honey-4-All said:


> an out of stater who brought the "SHB-CLAP-SHB" here in the first place. Can anyone say Florida or Georgia?"


Do you believe that if California closed its borders to bees from everywhere....even other states...that the various bee plagues wouldn't ever reach you? How do you think shb found their way to the South? They came from Africa. We don't allow the importation of bees from Africa. Who do you suppose 'brought them in'?

What is it about the soil in California that you think isn't conducive to shb replication?

Dream on, friend.


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

*Shb*

Hi Bee man dan, 

You are correct. You did not invent them. I'm sorry they (SHB) got to you in the first place. My point to Missoura was that we didn't drag them in here first. Maybe I shouldn't have included Georgia in my comment although I can remeber bees coming here from your state before the guys to the south of you were showing up for the dance. Seems like al the STD'S for bees get discovered in Florida first. Minimally thats where I remeber they show up on the radar screen. Correct me if I'm wrong. Some selfish SO* sneeks in queens and/ or something else by whatever means and drags the garbage (BEE STD'S) in with them. Then we all have to deal with this garbage. Trust me I'm not happy they are here either. By you or here by me. It does none of us any good although Keith might disagree with me.

My theory on why the shb MIGHT NOT thrive here is twofold. 

First. our soil has tons of clay in it. Not conducive to their geting in the ground. Our soil is like rocks in the summer and so slippery you can't drive on it after less than 5 hundreths of rain without sliding everywhere. Seems like they like sandy soil ( the kind in Modesto and much of the southeast US)

Secondly. Our humidity is relatively low except in the winter if the rain shows up. Almost all of our honey runs in the 13/ 14 % range while at times I've had it in the high 10"s. Lots of pounds per barrel when its that dense. Also seems they (SHB) like high humidity which isn't here either.

Let me know if you think about the theory. 

h4all


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

*Shb*

4 years ago I found a tennis ball sized cluster of beetle larvae in a deadout. Also saw some on drip pallets holding honey. Drenched with Gardstar around buildings and haven't seen them again. Don't the beetles require moist soil? 

No secrets here regarding SHB, the valley counties conducted a survey that year and found them in some stored comb in buildings. As far as I can see though they are not here on a year round basis.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Honey-4-All said:


> Seems like al the STD'S for bees get discovered in Florida first.


I was thinkin' that varroa were first identified in Minnesota...or somewhere up that way. AHB from Mexico into Tx and Az. Tracheal mites...who knows? IAPV....nosema ceranae? Those may even have come in over in your neighborhood. I think it'd be hard to point a finger at any single place as the source of our pestilence.


Honey-4-All said:


> First. our soil has tons of clay in it.


They seem to do pretty well in red GA clay.


Honey-4-All said:


> Secondly. Our humidity is relatively low except in the winter if the rain shows up. Also seems they (SHB) like high humidity which isn't here either.


Humidity has possibilities.
Another possibility is that they haven't got their proper gentic foothold yet....once the clay tolerant, low humidity happy shb start to reproduce you'll catch up with the rest of us.
For your sake I hope not.


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## Bizzybee (Jan 29, 2006)

North Georgia is more red clay than anything else. What isn't clay is solid granite. South Georgia is clay and sand for the most part. Like you say, when summer comes around the clay is as hard as a brick. And we see no significant rain other than thunderstorms until winter. If our weather pattern ever returns we will get our missing rain from the hurricanes in the fall.

The beetles for the most part are all over the eastern states and seem to be progressing west. Those that say they don't have them either haven't seen them or I suspect they soon will. There has been plenty of speculation as to what these things need to survive. Sand soil is supposed to be the ticket, yet one yard I have to the southeast that has plenty of it shows fewer than my yards to the north in the clay. It has been said that they fall from the hives and reproduce and the cycle can be broken by treating the ground around the hives. Yet again I have another yard that sits on solid granite and unless they have little jackhammers in their pockets, they aren't going in the ground there and still it is by far one of my worst yards for them.

They always die off in the winter here and plenty can be seen dead around the hives around the first freeze and before the birds and whatever picks them up for food. There are almost always a few that will winter over in the clusters but get run out of the hives in the spring when build up starts. I won't see more than a spotted sampling of them anywhere until April or May and no significant numbers until June. From then on, they seem to hold their own living in the wings of the hives. If a hive fails for some reason, they are there ready to pounce. But I have never had the experience of them taking over a healthy hive. I have more problems from wax moths than I do beetles late in the season. If anything, the beetles follow behind the moths if any of them are successful at weakening a hive.

Dan, I'm going to come over there and check out that evil scientist bee lab of yours just to make sure you didn't have something to do with all this mess


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Bizzybee said:


> Dan, I'm going to come over there and check out that evil scientist bee lab of yours just to make sure you didn't have something to do with all this mess


Ya know, the first real problems I had with shb was the year that Jamie Ellis at the beelab was running experiments with the monsters. He was growing them by the millions in one of the back rooms. I accused him of infesting my hives and he said he thought it was mine infesting his. So, if you go poking around the beelab there's no telling what you'll find or what you might take home.


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

*Still wet and cold*

Its wet, and more is on the way. Next ten days forecast look to be rain or showers every day. The bees have had less than ten hours forage time on 70% bloom trees so far. So much for the build up. Better fill that bucket up again folks.


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## Guest (Feb 26, 2009)

We've got them in NC, I have them in my hives. And we've got clay soil. I think they were in the first hive I purchased, but they are in swarm hives i caught also. They get in the soil and go from there I guess. Strong hives seem to keep them under control, they do well in weak ones.


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

beemandan (who evidently hangs with mad scientist types?) writes:
AHB from Mexico into Tx and Az.

tecumseh:
I seem to recall that the first positive identification of AHB was in California.

as to the shb. just casually (no mad scientist algorithm or such) it does appear the shb is less of a problem the further you go into west texas where the humitity is also extremely low. I would also expect that the variation in temperature from southern to northern california should somewhat to highly impact the shb problem. it is of course easier to assume you have no shb problem if you don't look. 

it would also seem that some here are quite in DENIAL that the amount of money folks would pay for their packages until the Aussie packages opened there own eyes in this regards. 

distilled to a nut shell: I suspect the aussie package deal is short term in nature and not sustainable (economically) over the intermediate term. It's one benefit is it does seem to provide a mechanism for folks that have committed to pollination contracts and then find winner losses which make it impossible to fulfill those contracts. Thus the aussie packages have quite likely saved a ton of money that would have been spent on lawyers and legal proceedings.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*Wrong! Not in Calif.*

Bee Invasion?
Africanized bees proliferate because they are less discriminating in their choice of nests than native bees, utilizing a variety of natural and man-made objects , including hollow trees, walls, porches, sheds, attics, utility boxes, garbage containers and abandoned vehicles. They also tend to swarm more often than other honey bees.

*The first swarm of Africanized bees was detected in the U.S. in October, 1990 when they were captured in a baited trap at the border town of Hidalgo, Texas.* AHB colonies were first reported in Arizona and New Mexico in 1993 and in California in October, 1994. Within a year, more than 8,000 square miles of Imperial, Riverside and northeastern San Diego counties were declared officially colonized by Africanized Bees.

To date, more than 100 counties in Texas, 6 in New Mexico, 14 in Arizona, 1 in Nevada, and 3 counties in California have reported Africanized honey bees. AHB continue the northward expansion of their territories by swarming, the process by which bee colonies replicate.

In May of 1991, Jesus Diaz became the first person to be attacked by AHB in the U.S. while mowing a lawn in the border city of Brownsville, Texas. Diaz suffered 18 stings and was treated at a local hospital.

On July 15, 1993, 82-year-old Lino Lopez became the first person to die in the U.S. from Africanized honey bee stings. He was stung more than 40 times while trying to remove a colony from a wall in an abandoned building on his ranch near Harlingen, Texas.
Ernie


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

tecumseh said:


> tecumseh:
> I seem to recall that the first positive identification of AHB was in California.





BEES4U said:


> *The first swarm of Africanized bees was detected in the U.S. in October, 1990 when they were captured in a baited trap at the border town of Hidalgo, Texas.* .


Whichever, doesn’t matter to me. My only point in my original post was that it’d be hard to blame Florida for all of our imported pestilence.



tecumseh said:


> beemandan (who evidently hangs with mad scientist types?) .


Naw…no hangin’. I’m only acquainted with a few of them.


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

*Back to starvin singles.*

Hey folk just thought Id give you an update on the "starvin Singles." The weather the last two days has been better for the bees. Mid sixties yesterday. Bit breezy. Petals falling on the earlier blooms on trees across the road from me. The guy spraying fungicide on our almonds had to fly to the north side of the field and let er drift down on in. It was breezy enough were he dropped under the power lines to get it on. Speaking of "NUTS."
We worked on / went thru the breeder queens yesterday in anticipation of grafting next week and you could see the almond pollen starting to come in. Not as super abundant as in years past. Didn't see much nectar coming in nor did I smell them drying it which should have been the case considering the temperature. Today looks to be high sixties with clouds and then a forecast of 8 days of rain / showers at 40 - 80 % chance at 59-64 degrees. They should get some nectar in today unless the clouds keep it down. The bees have been building but definetely not gaining weight without feed. So far my warning about starving single is on hold (don't buy or sell) but with the building bees and the rain coming back we still might need the syrup bucket back in hand especially on singles.


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

Thanks, Honey-4-All, for the update. You had me pretty worried for a while there as we had a few that weren't quite as heavy as we'd like, but they are in story and a half so hopefully they have enough to hold them with the nectar that is coming in. 
I talked to our broker the other day, Chowchilla area. He was in the orchard, said the sun was shining, bloom was at 60-70%, our bees were flying like fools and he could smell the nectar drying. He sure made me want to head out that way as we were due to get another 6" of snow overnight here in Wisconsin.
I asked him how they looked weight wise. He had hefted a few and said we didn't need to worry, but it isn't the majority I am concerned with. We always have the syrup ready and waiting for them here in Wisconsin if it is needed. Last couple years they have been _too_ heavy if anything coming out but this year might be different, with all the rain.
Overall our broker was happy and when the broker is happy, we are happy. 
Sheri


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

John k and sherri'

Just courious who is your broker? My bees are also in Chowchilla and I'm wondering if we have same broker. Let me know if you hear anything weather/rain wise! i sometimes have a hard time getting a quick responce back about bloom. I also am wondering how much weight the bees went thru from Feb 10 to 20 with all the rain. How did yours do? I had 4-7 frames brood so I expect they used some stores and graded about a 10-11 frame ave. Looks like orange is about 3 weeks away as I talked to David Hackenberg today so hopefully I'll get back to Fl in time as trees in my bees orchard opened their first blooms on jan 12. Keep me posted! Also let me know where you are in WI. I'm taking about 600 to the Redgranite area. small world! Rick


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## Missoura (Feb 12, 2009)

reports are coming in of light hives in California almonds. Most Midwest beekeepers feel too little time to come feed so will take the losses. A week of rain will cause some loss.
A couple reports of beekeepers which have went to feed as the broker said the hives were ok and the beekeepers wanted to check. Both found some hives starving but most ok but fear the next week will cause losses of hives.
Both said feed most likely will be needed before shipping if hives are returned to cold areas of the Midwest. 
Each beekeepers situation is different but the general thought is that the hives are generally light as compared to this time last year.


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

OOPS>>>> almond bloom in my orchard didnt open Jan 12.....but Feb 12 must have been a after 50 moment!


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

suttonbeeman said:


> John k and sherri'
> Let me know if you hear anything weather/rain wise!


Weather.com says it's looking bad for the next week ahead plus, so now I am worried again. I do not know how much weight they went through. Most of ours were fairly heavy but there were a few, maybe 5-10% that might be in trouble if they don't get enough from the almonds. Probably not worth a trip out there but we will want them back asap after bloom so we can feed them if needed. We will keep our fingers crossed!


suttonbeeman said:


> i sometimes have a hard time getting a quick responce back about bloom.


 Do you read the Blue Diamond daily report? It is fairly broad in it's coverage but still gives a pretty good over view of bloom progression.


suttonbeeman said:


> .....where you are in WI. small world! Rick


We are in Owen. Stop by if you're ever in the area.
Sheri


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## stangardener (Mar 8, 2005)

lookin bad here? heck this rain is lookin pretty good to me. this is our rain season, if we don't get it now we never will. remember it doesn't rain in california but man it pours.


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

stangardener said:


> ... this rain is lookin pretty good to me. ...


Yes, you are quite right of course. Rain now will pay dividends down the road, but, but, why can't it rain at night so our bees can get out and work the almonds? 
Sheri


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## Bud Dingler (Feb 8, 2008)

*Fwiw*

a weather service I subscribe to for my business is calling for a record breaking cold spell to wack the entire west coast and all of CA in the 6-10 day period (march 8th-12th) . following that will be another week of seasonally below average temps spreading across the nation from the west to midwest. 

i don't give the long term precip fcsts much credence but these temp fcsts have gotten amazingly accurate. 

the March outlook calls for below average temps for northern half of CA to Seattle with wet conditions above normal for most of CA only. maybe the drought will be diminished? 

sounds like the almond bloom will be over in 6 days? if not hope all goes well for you folks with bees out in the almond orchards.


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

Just got a call from my broker....fed most of my bees today...looked good but light. Evidentually they have used up some stores. Looks like bloom will be winding down in two weeks. May have to feed again! Last year was honey bound this year feed feed feed!


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## Angi_H (Feb 9, 2008)

Bees have only had about 5 or 6 days here in Kings/Fresno County since Bloom opened on the 15th 16th of Feb. Most of my hives were heavy but there was a few lights. Looks like I will need to take sugar syrup out to them tomorrow as they are still calling for rain through Thursday. And then a one to 2 day break then another 10 days of rains and cold spells. Not good for us beekeepers and not good for the Almond crop. But if Almond crop is light prices for Almonds will go up in the fall and with all of the rain maybe we will have better luck with the pollination prices and contracts next almond season. Here is to hoping. Not looking forward to more rain though as I am late getting stuff planted and thats not good also. The fields are wet and my birds are wet.

Angi


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## high rate of speed (Jan 4, 2008)

Let it rain.:applause:


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Isn't it this rain that get turned into sage honey later on? At least that's my understanding of California.

Jean-Marc


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## stangardener (Mar 8, 2005)

jean-marc said:


> Isn't it this rain that get turned into sage honey later on? At least that's my understanding of California.
> 
> Jean-Marc


and blackberry


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## Angi_H (Feb 9, 2008)

Not here where I am. There is no black berry and no sage not in the midddle of the Central Valley of Ca where I am located. WE have alfalfa and the trees and what I plant for the bees. Oh ya and Cotton. And the weeds

Angi




jean-marc said:


> Isn't it this rain that get turned into sage honey later on? At least that's my understanding of California.
> 
> Jean-Marc


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## RobertLorge (Mar 17, 2009)

I have talked to several of the major producers and suppliers in our industry and we have talked about Lobby efforts. I think that is what we will need to do. I am a fiscal conservative, it kind of burns me both ways to see who is getting bailed out by the Feds, while we watch very little Fed money going into something useful, like our 4 soon to be 3 under budgeted Bee Labs and others trying to cure CCD. 

Ditto on Communist Chinese poisoned Honey and other junk.

As to NZ and Australia, the rule should be RECIPROCITY. The trade in bees form here to there should be made exactly EQUAL or EQUALLY EASY as from there to here......with CCD we may need them, so I would not stop them at this point, would like to, as I am a MADE IN AMERICA kind of person, but I think they are our insurance, Mexico or Central or Latin America could have been BUT FOR the African Honey Bee AHB problem. We can at least drive there. If AHB spreads throughout the warm USA maybe we should reconsider, but I guarantee you, we would all be buried by imports then. Thus Equal Trade is the only kind of FAIR TRADE which beats Free or slave trade....

In the meantime, feed your bees, with the drought etc., the loss of 200,000 acres of Almonds, double that in bees needed there, and still drought etc., I predict a lot of dead bees and a shortage everywhere. The normal trade pattern, to Almonds and then back is now broken, and the DOMINO EFFECT will cause a shortage, maybe with the economy and politics a permanent shortage...who can afford to continue the WAY IT IS ?


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

RobertLorge said:


> The normal trade pattern, to Almonds and then back is now broken, and the DOMINO EFFECT will cause a shortage


How so?
Sheri


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## RobertLorge (Mar 17, 2009)

SEveral reasons, primarily three:
1. 200,000 droughted acres of almonds taken out of production, meant 400,000 to maybe 500,000 less bee colonies needed this year;
Many of those bees where there or enroute there and are what you could call "stranded". Once stranded, these hives became starved out, dried out, diseased out, or died out. Even those that caught it in time, and did not go or become stranded, became surplus bees that were not going to get Almond fees and thus had to be fed, or otherwise if in the north fell under the typical current higher deadouts from winter clusters that we will only start to see now.
2. All the bees out there, under the stress of the drought, pre-starving, post-starving due to a shorter bloom, etc., more susceptible to disease and the spread of disease from the stranded bees, are now bringing those diseases back with them, if they made it or make it, to spread the diseases to other bees coming out of winter cluster back home, unless treated immediately for everything, and there have been shortages I hear here and there for things like Fumagilin-B being hoarded, and Terramyacin, to say nothing of mites, and the new Aussie rumored virus introduced out there. Many have voiced concerns of California spring packages for bees that have been stressed out there and have basically worn their wings off, the bee version of being on your last leg, anticipating weak nucs and packages from out there.
3. Once bitten twice shy, the beekeepers that had contracts fall through, or renegotiated $155 or $135 contracts to $80 or who were stranded and paid nothing, will not produce "more bees" now for next year.
These and several other DOMINO EFFECTS from the bubble bursting out in California will then follow the pollination cycle around the nation, resulting in bee shortages, not surplus bees as one might have originally thought, because of the poor economic instability of what happened in California because California Federal Judges and State bureaucrats appear to be the only people that remain living in LALA Land (reference to Los Angeles Hollywood fantasy land) and do not know that California has always had a water shortage and unlike the Saudis and other who use America desalination and other water purification processes have done NOTHING FOR DECADES to solve California's and the SouthWest's chronic water shortage.
I the Midwest, like Illinois where you live Sheri, we have the world's (that's right the whole world's) largest supply of fresh water. Ask our friends in Georgia and surrounding states there, or even Texas about their water problems, and you will soon see why Wisconsin and the Midwest truly can be called "God's Country", how lucky we are.


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## Trevor Mansell (Jan 16, 2005)

There wont be a shortage of bees for a while ,I know Maine is cutting way back on bees for blueberry pollination this year .


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Man....

Is there some Rookies again talking about almonds, thats one we never have in short supply.


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

*Almond Market*

Flooded with nuts


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

Robert, what a gloom and doom scenario you present.
500,000 less colonies needed? That would be about 1/3 of the bees needed for the crop. I think your figure is greatly overstated. Yes, there was shuffling around of colonies (and empty boxes) and some cut throat pricing going on but good bees for the most part got rented. Yes, there were reports of hungry bees, this happens on a fairly regular basis. Some years are better than others, nothing new here. This year _most_ bees needed fed. Par for the course.
If you send your bees out west without a contract and without the capital to get them home and maintain them if you don't get an almond check, well, I can only shake my head in amazement. Anyone that leaves their bees "stranded" to starve and die had no business sending bees to begin with. 

As for northern winter deadouts being higher than normal, don't worry, I don't see this effecting long term supply. Everyone I _know_ is selling bees, there is a good supply out there. There are a ton of healthy bees in California and coming out of California right now, heading to the south, and southeast (and even some to Wisconsin  ) to be split and redistributed to those who lost theirs over winter. It is a good thing too otherwise how would all those deadouts get replenished? 
I haven't heard of weak packages yet, but if so, it wouldn't be the first time and won't be the last. 
There was a shortage of Fumagillin last spring but we haven't had problems this year. If so, this translates to my mind as less disease not more. The shortage we _are_ seeing is wooden ware, which in my mind translates to more bees not less. There isn't a bee supply house out there that isn't doing a booming business right now.

Once bitten, twice shy? I sincerely hope so. Anyone that's been going out there for a while has been bit a _couple_ times. Good footwork, fortune and friends allows for the setbacks. People too close to the edge that think they can get rich quick in bees are more likely to get bit and flounder, deservedly so. If they had done their homework they would have known: this isn't a get rich quick scheme; it is hard work, both physically and mentally. Those kind of "gold diggers" we can all do without. And the bees they don't make we can do without too.
It IS a shame when folks trust their investment to those they shouldn't trust and lose it all. The more wide eyed naivete's get involved the more crooks will follow, ready to take advantage. The bigger the pollination fees a colony will fetch, the more crooks will show up to steal them. But all this is business as usual, in any industry. The undercapitalized, the incompetent, the unlucky go by the wayside.

Personally, as of today, we plan on sending our bees to California next year and others we know that have gone out there for years will too. We know a few pollinators, they all placed their bees and none settled for _anything_ like $80. I suspect _most_ that negotiated to $80 didn't have $140 bees to begin with. I know there are exceptions to this....some just got caught by the desperate low balling of the "gold diggers". I hope any growers that broke contracts for these bees got what they paid for, and will for years to come.
Will the drought put more acreage out of commission? Will the pollination fees drop? Will the sky fall? Next year will be very interesting and we know it is not always a good thing to live in interesting times. We and others like us will keep tuned in and make business decisions as the facts emerge. Sometimes it gets a little too exciting but I don't think it is time to panic yet. This is the marketplace at work, not the end of the world.

Sheri (who lives in Wisconsin, not Illinois, waiting for the bees to get back, hoping they don't get "stranded", starve and die)


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

JohnK and Sheri said:


> Will the sky fall?


AH Gee, the sky is falling run for cover!   


Had to have some fun Sheri, your post was making too much sence.


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## RobertLorge (Mar 17, 2009)

I had heard 400,000 to 500,000 based on the acreage that dried up. Still waiting for the Almond Board numbers, think it may have been new and old trees, old retired, and new ones that would have been put in were not, so a shortage ended up being a surplus, the big numbers being from what would have been the bumper crop, but will see what the Almond Board says for the final score.


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## LSPender (Nov 16, 2004)

1/3 of the almond acreage is in water shortage areas, that means 2/3 of it is good. 

And who knows maybe CA will have a big fish fry (Smelt ) and all water problems will go away?
Or maybe an actual rain fall?


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## cow pollinater (Dec 5, 2007)

> 1/3 of the almond acreage is in water shortage areas, that means 2/3 of it is good.


And I'll add that the stuff that's in a water shortage area will likely still get watered as there are alot of other crops that will dry up before these guys just ditch permanent plantings.
Everyone that pays attention here knows that rain comes in around seven year cycles and we're about due. I don't think we'll see to many growers throwing in the towel unless it's on an orchard that needed to come out anyway. These guys aren't stupid. Most of them are keenly aware that they are farming a desert...alot of time is spent thinking water and backup-plan even in good times.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Heres a nice little video I saw on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZCoX9tsT1E
"I'm in it for the long haul" the grower says.
With the price of nuts down and the water situation,this is a good time to replace marginal orchards.
I agree ,this is not the time to panic(we can do that later )
I wouldn't be in any hurry to sign cheap contracts for next year,in view of the Fed screwing with the money supply. If they mess it up ,we may be getting paid in nuts


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

*Work together!*

Those beekeepers that have established relationships over the years with their growers and provided quality hives and service will probably do very well next year in the areas with water.
Those that blindly send out their bees on semis and turn them over to whomever answers the phone will get bit as ususal.
Upon arriving in CA with my bees and going through them for 14 days, my grower and his foreman told me, "Nobody comes down here and dials in their bees like you do; nobody!"
Well, I know several beekeepers that do, but was stunned to hear that most hives get shipped and dropped with not as much as a lid popped.
My grower keeps a veil in his trunk and once a day would walk up and B.S. with me as I worked bees. No surprises or secrets here!
When I leave to return home, my grower knows that each and every hive has my stamp of approval.
I have recieved the same price for the last 3 years and if it changes eather way, I expect that my grower and I will not try to kill each other. We will hold a thoughtful negotiation and come to an agreement as always.
I heard a lot of $165, $175, $185 rumors last fall. Those beekeepers were ones placing at the last second for $20 - $50 dollars less than I recieved.
LOOK OUT FOR YOUR GROWER'S INTERESTS ALSO.
OR, if you want to go to a different orchard every year, thats your choice.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

>>>"dropped with not as much as a lid popped."

Ahh, the infamous 'field run' hives

In reality though,we try to get all the work done just before delivery.We did make 2 feeding trips during bloom to spot feed.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

loggermike said:


> >>>"dropped with not as much as a lid popped."
> 
> Ahh, the infamous 'field run' hives
> 
> In reality though,we try to get all the work done just before delivery.We did make 2 feeding trips during bloom to spot feed.


Yeah, stacked three high & banded.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*Abj april 2009*

:thumbsup:
Hey Kieth,
I saw your name in this April issue of ABj.
Perhaps the drop and go guys could invest in some patties.
Ernie


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

The north Valley graders just cut the bands.Nothing deters them,neither rain nor sleet, nor stacks. :applause:


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

loggermike said:


> "In reality though,we try to get all the work done just before delivery.We did make 2 feeding trips during bloom to spot feed.



That sounds Ideal, Mike!
However, you have to remember that when your temps are in the 60s and 70s prior to bloom, they are in their 30s - 40s here in Oregon. And MUCH lower elsewhere.
So we move the bees directly into the orchards as early as the grower will allow, bring our overwintered nucs and feed, then work until the hives are all premium.

My bees were about 40 miles west of yours again this year.
Hope all went well as always!
Harry


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## RobertLorge (Mar 17, 2009)

1/3 is 33.33% bad for bees, and that's a lot of bees.....or were.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Harry,I do understand that we all have to manage our hives differently based on location. Usually we can start in the 1st week in Jan inspecting and feeding the bees in the Valley.It will be in the 50s .So we are trying to do what you do,just can get into them a little earlier.
We both know its what is done in late summer/early fall that really determines what we will have in Feb.
While looking at some lousy hives in January,my son commented that they looked great in October. I pointed out that something went wrong and it was our job to find out why.No excuses.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

BEES4U said:


> :thumbsup:
> Hey Kieth,
> I saw your name in this April issue of ABj.
> Perhaps the drop and go guys could invest in some patties.
> Ernie


Ernie, I read that too, Randy must be mistaking me for someone else.


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## RobertLorge (Mar 17, 2009)

Personally I beleive that if you have Bees doing Pollination you need to personally check on them once a week, not just send them and hope for the best, not check on them once a month or once during the bloom or just before or just after and not even once every two weeks like Best Practices Management would dictate in your own yards if you were checking for swarm cells. Once a week. If you can't afford thetime or the money to do that yourself or with your own employees, then you don't really have a close relationship with your Growers and certainly not with your bees. 
I thought it was a good video clip also:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZCoX9tsT1E


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

Got bees back from Ca in Fl Monday last week.....missed a week of orange. Bees were in great shape...bothboxes full of bees with about 8% drone layers/queenless....about normal. We headed back to Ky to get another load of supers....orange comming in fast! I put deeps on bees Wednesday....Thursday afternoon nectar in all frames! Orange flow looks to be a good one....in peak now. Got home last night....heading back to florida in the morning!


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

Robert,

We have been using the same two brokers for years. These guys are well known and liked by the growers and ensure sound practices with both the growers and the beeks. I don't need to be in Calf. with these guys handling my bees. Never had a problem and never heard of any complaints about the bees from the growers. There is a standard that is set and adhered to by us and quality check by the broker who also looks out for the welfare of our bees until they get back to us. This program works well for us, but like I said we personally know these guys and have dealt with them for years. 

If I didn't know a broker like these guys though...I would not even consider sending my bees to Calf. unless I went with them.


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## mbholl (Dec 16, 2007)

*stackyards*

How do the large stackyards work? Does a broker arrange for the area? Is each beek assigned a spot? I saw thousands of hives off the fwy; (some of these hives looked to be the same ones that sat there the week before - unique paint colors). I saw 6 semis being loaded at the same time - impressive. I'm guessing 10-12 semi loads of bees sitting there, with no bloom around. Does a beek sending bees across country figure 5-6% loss when bees are delivered, and same % loss when returned home?


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

Yeahhhh, the bees are back!!
We got the first two trucks back yesterday. So far they are looking very good. Some were a little light, but not nearly as many as we were expecting. Some are fairly heavy. John is out feeding now. Despite the fact it was in the low 40s, earlier, when the sun was out, there were some nosing around the yard trying to figure where the nectar was coming from. 
The next two trucks come in tomorrow, then only one more later in the week.
Once they are on the ground and fed, we need the weather to cooperate a little. It may technically be spring, but it is still very cold up here. Snow mostly gone but more may be on the way. It looks like John might be unloading the trucks tomorrow in a blizzard. Wouldn't be the first time but I sure don't envy him. Or the bees. Quite the change from California.

mbholl
Some beeks send their bees directly out to the growers they have arrangements with and the holding yard is part of the deal. Or to other landowners who have agreed to provide holding areas. In our case, we
send the semis out to our broker who unloads them into the holding yards. Some hold tens of thousands of colonies. How they keep them straight is beyond me, but they manage. The brokers have made arrangements with landowners to allow the bees to be unloaded and stockpiled there. Sometimes they are on the almond growers land where ultimately they will be spread out to pollinate, sometimes it is a straight rental fee per colony on pastureland totally unrelated to almonds. This year ours sat in the holding yards from early November until they went into the orchards. Once released by the growers they are sometimes loaded directly out of the orchards or trucked back to holding yards to be put onto the semis. 
Yes, we allow for a 10-15% winter loss, which is comparable or better than we would have leaving them sit in Wisconsin over winter. This isn't from the trip so much as normal loss due to colonies going droney or queenless.
As for there being no bloom, that is correct; there is about the same amount of bloom as there is in Wisconsin that time of year. We carry the bloom on the back of the truck in big syrup tanks and in boxes of pollen sub.. 

Robert
We too have been using the same two brokers for years and haven't had any complaints. We do go out to tend the bees a couple times, but this is because we basically don't have time to get our work done here in Wisconsin. The weather catches us (every year!) but we also go because we want to feed sub and syrup to keep them broody. We certainly don't feel it necessary to be out there on a weekly basis and some beeks never go out at all, trusting their growers or brokers to keep an eye on them. As for a personal relationship with the growers, in our case, that is the brokers job, not ours. Any beekeeper that kept in weekly contact with the growers would probably wear out his welcome, lol. We don't even know where our bees are physically for the month or so of the bloom. We kiss them goodbye mid January and welcome them home late March. Been doing this for a few years now and it works fine. (knock on wood!) And not only for us, this is the way it is done pretty much across the board.
Sheri


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