# buying my first 10-wheeler



## pahvantpiper (Apr 25, 2006)

I'm to the point where my 450's and 550's just don't cut the mustard anymore and I'm going to buy a bigger truck hopefully by april or may. I know there have been a few threads on trucks but if you could humor me with a few questions.

If you had it to do again what truck would you get and what bells and whistles?

Cummins, Cat, DT, Mercedes, etc.?
Freightliner, International, Kenworth, Pete., etc.?
Horsepower?
Lock-in rear differential?
How heavy of axles?
How long of bed? I'm thinking 25 feet. 288 hives.
sleeper, or is this just a waste of space?
What other options?


I'm not going to truck all my bees myself to California so I wont add a trailer to this and pull 400+ hives. Only a forklift trailer. I don't want too huge of a cab because some pollination locations are somewhat tight.

Last week While placing my bees in the almonds I rented an international that I could haul 192 hives on. Worked great, sure beat the 80 or 120 I can put on my 550. Anyway, I think a 10 wheeler would be even better. Just not real familiar with the bigger trucks. Not sure what questions to ask or what to look out for. If anyone with experience in these bigger trucks could give some advice on what to avoid and what to look for I would greatly appreciate it.


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## Barry Digman (May 21, 2003)

Keep an eye out for used oilfield trucks over towards Price and Vernal. The oil patch is slowing down and there might be some equipment showing up this spring/summer. Companies around here are beginning to announce layoffs.


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## Trevor Mansell (Jan 16, 2005)

did you want to stretch a tractor ? Its not that expensive to have done.
















it would probably give you more options on trucks as well as prices.


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## pahvantpiper (Apr 25, 2006)

"did you want to stretch a tractor ?"

If I can't find the length I want in a cab chassis or flat bed I might do this. It's a good idea.

I'll keep my eyes open Barry at the oil fields. Thanks.


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## Mathispollenators (Jun 9, 2008)

*what I want*

We don't have trucks that size but if I got one I think I would want the sleeper and 4wd. Dad says they are great for stuff that don't need to get wet like suits, suit cases, and other things that don't fit right behind the seats. We are building honey house and one of the block drivers has a snub nosed truck with a 25 ft bed. I never thought I would like one of them but I got in it and it seemed good. Didn't feel like the view was blocked by the trucks front clip. Clyde say's it's easy to move around in a tight job site too. They have a Princeton piggy back lift on the back of the trucks. It would make a great bee truck as is except the door was fiberglass and my cool magnetic door stickers wouldn't stick when we tried it . We use a ton truck now that has 4 wheel drive and would want that some of the places are pretty rough around here.


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## MadBowbee (Oct 10, 2006)

Rob, forgot to tell you that all of our trucks were stretched. My old one even had a sleeper we chopped off. That's really the way to go. You get a good used truck with 100,000 miles or so, with the motor you want, (my old Detroit Series 60 sure was great) but I do like my new Mercedes engine. Wish it got a little better mileage.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Rob, how many hives do you move/run.


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## pahvantpiper (Apr 25, 2006)

"Rob, how many hives do you move/run."

1600 in '08 and should get somewhere over 2000 this year. I move them a lot though and half of them are 100 miles from where I live so on these semi-long day trips I want to carry as much as possible wheather I'm moving bees, supering or pulling honey.

Right now I'm leaning towards an international with either a Cummins or Detroit. There's a dealer here close by that will take in trade my two f-450's that I don't need. One's a 2007 with less than 1000 miles if anyone is interested. 4x4 powerstroke.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Rob, 

Try taking a look at a air lift tag axel, 25 foot bed air lift tag axel 45,000 gross.


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## pahvantpiper (Apr 25, 2006)

*Tag axle?*

What's the difference between a tag axle and a regular tandem? unfortunately I'm not as knowledgeable about trucks as I would like / need to be. Like they say "ignorance is bliss." Of course in this case that hits a little too close to home.


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## soupcan (Jan 2, 2005)

*F-450's*

Are both your trucks Power Stroker's??????


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## 67630 (Jul 17, 2008)

pahvantpiper said:


> What's the difference between a tag axle and a regular tandem? unfortunately I'm not as knowledgeable about trucks as I would like / need to be. Like they say "ignorance is bliss." Of course in this case that hits a little too close to home.


A tag axle is raised or lowered with the trucks air pressure. Pick it up when empty, lower it when loaded. Also the amount of air pressure applied will change the load per axle, help keep you legal weight. Steerable tags are also available, probably not for someone who hasnt drove a big truck much though. Takes getting used to.


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Tags can be ok. I think that I would prefer a tandem with locking differentials. I'm no truck expert either, but when you lock the wheels all 8 wheels at the back are turning (hopefully not spinning). So in a sense it's like 4 wheel drive. The likelyhood of getting stuck diminish with rear locking differentials. This is something to consider. I think tag axles are fine if you carry heavy weights only once in a while. You don't get rear locking differentials with these. So the risks of getting stuck increase. So somehow you gotta figure out the pros and cons of each type of truck. Should you get stuck and you've got a stretched cab with a sleeper you'll have a place to rest while the wrecker gets there

Jean-Marc


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## pahvantpiper (Apr 25, 2006)

Tag axle = lift axle? OK, makes sense now.

"Are both your trucks Power Stroker's??????"
Yes, both are Power Strokes. Buy both and I'll make you a deal. 

I saw some cool looking 6X6's in the "Truck Paper" They're jacked up pretty high though. I wonder how these would work?

Does anyone stack double deeps 4 high? That's what I'll have to do to get 288 on a 25' bed. Seems pretty high to me for off road situations. I've done 3 plenty but never 4 high.


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## dbest (Aug 9, 2005)

My Dad goes 4 high but its very easy to over load it. His ten wheeler has a lift axle so its actually a 14 wheeler. The next one we build is going to have spead drive axles so the truck can gross at 52,000#s


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## dbest (Aug 9, 2005)

found one for you :

http://www.trucksforsale.com/truck/4207/truck-for-sale


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

jean-marc said:


> Tags can be ok. I think that I would prefer a tandem with locking differentials. I'm no truck expert either, but when you lock the wheels all 8 wheels at the back are turning (hopefully not spinning). So in a sense it's like 4 wheel drive. The likelyhood of getting stuck diminish with rear locking differentials.
> Jean-Marc



Jean-Marc, locking diffs are normal but a locking power divider is a horse of another color.

Locking diffs means, you have one set of tires on each axel turning, not all eight.

This can be confusing.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

dbest said:


> found one for you :
> 
> http://www.trucksforsale.com/truck/4207/truck-for-sale


That's the one to get around the almond orchard with.


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## greenbeekeeping (Feb 13, 2003)

Thats a nice looking truck. Even an auto. Just needs a different bed


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## dbest (Aug 9, 2005)

Here's another 54,000 gross and no sleeper, quad locks (8) wheel drive!! :

http://www.truckpaper.com/listings/detail.aspx?OHID=1838858&guid=8E2F71B99279490F902756A71C8185BB

and another: 

http://www.truckpaper.com/listings/detail.aspx?OHID=1877573&guid=1A928B2C2E4B4F86B5131B71F4CD4E73

P.S. I love trucks!! Its normally my 2nd question for other beekeepers. (the 1st is what kind of forklift)


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## dbest (Aug 9, 2005)

greenbeekeeping said:


> Thats a nice looking truck. Even an auto. Just needs a different bed


Yea but that's only a weekend project.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

[QUOTE
P.S. I love trucks!! Its normally my 2nd question for other beekeepers. (the 1st is what kind of forklift)[/QUOTE]

I would have to agree, because when you see there shop it looks like the gerber dump in most cases.


P.S. the two fastest depreciating capital investments...

Truck & forklifts


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## dbest (Aug 9, 2005)

Keith Jarrett said:


> [QUOTE
> P.S. I love trucks!! Its normally my 2nd question for other beekeepers. (the 1st is what kind of forklift)


I would have to agree, because when you see there shop it looks like the gerber dump in most cases.


P.S. the two fastest depreciating capital investments...

Truck & forklifts[/QUOTE]

I KNOW but its a love...some people have boats and big screen TVs or go on big vacations...I buy trucks and forklifts and "fix" and play.

Are you talking about my shop? have you seen it? Only the back part looks like a scrap yard but I swear they're all useful...someday


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

dbest said:


> Are you talking about my shop? have you seen it?


No, haven't seen it & was not referring to it.

What I notice is the ones with the fancy truck & forklifts don't spend much on there shop or work area.


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## dbest (Aug 9, 2005)

I've been told that I must love my welder and tools more than trucks. Because they are the only constants. The trucks change out.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Yea, I used to weld for a living, my truck and forklift are both 1985, spent $15,000 on both about twenty years ago. The pollen sub business has been good of late, thinking of adding another 6,000 feet to my shop. 

Sorry for getting off subjct Rob.


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## dbest (Aug 9, 2005)

this would make an awesome truck to stretch 

http://www.truckpaper.com/listings/detail.aspx?OHID=1758494&guid=8E2F71B99279490F902756A71C8185BB


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Keith:

I guess I stand corrected. Like I said I'm no expert on trucks. Can drive pretty good though.

Jean-Marc


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

jean-marc said:


> Keith:
> 
> Like I said I'm no expert on trucks. Jean-Marc


Jean-Marc, I thought the same thing until I bought one of my water trucks that had both, locking diffs & axels.


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## pahvantpiper (Apr 25, 2006)

KW T800 or International 8600 or FL-112? Does anyone know which would get through the almonds easiest with sloping hood and small turning radius?

Why not just get beefier axles to hold more weight than a tag axle? I'm guessing it must have something to do with weight distribution to be legal rather than easier for the truck.

Thanx for the great comments. Keith, I don't mind getting off subject at all, it's all good.


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## high rate of speed (Jan 4, 2008)

TRUCKS and gerber dumps go hand in hand the proof is in the putting.LOL. the bee hive.:gh:


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

*Love paperwork and fees???*

Oh the joys of big trucks (26000 gvw or over) here in California:

Commercial license with medical certificate every two years.
Pull Notice Program - informs you if you or you're drivers license's are valid.
Alcohol and Drug testing Program - just what it says.
BIT Inspection Program - CHP inspects your rig and paperwork every two years.
Motor Carrier Permit - a special number on the door of your truck that enriches the public coffer.
The list goes on.


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## dbest (Aug 9, 2005)

I don't keep any papers or play their dumb game...and according to this, I don't have to: 

this is the part its talking about: 

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regu...r/fmcsrruletext.asp?chunkKey=09016334800238a8

Subpart A—General 


§391.2 General exemptions. 
(a) Farm custom operation. The rules in this part do not apply to a driver who drives a commercial motor vehicle controlled and operated by a person engaged in custom-harvesting operations, if the commercial motor vehicle is used to—

(a)(1) Transport farm machinery, supplies, or both, to or from a farm for custom-harvesting operations on a farm; or

(a)(2) Transport custom-harvested crops to storage or market.

(b) Apiarian industries. The rules in this part do not apply to a driver who is operating a commercial motor vehicle controlled and operated by a beekeeper engaged in the seasonal transportation of bees.

(c) Certain farm vehicle drivers. The rules in this part do not apply to a farm vehicle driver except a farm vehicle driver who drives an articulated (combination) commercial motor vehicle as defined in §390.5. (For limited exemptions for farm vehicle drivers of articulated commercial motor vehicles see §391.67.)

Related Links 
Disclaimer

Interpretation 

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regu...sp?chunkKey=09016334800238a9&keyword=apiarian

BTW: We have 3 Full siize trucks and one is in Fresno right now with farm plates and only a DOT number no records no medical card no log book!


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## pahvantpiper (Apr 25, 2006)

Dbest,
even with farm plates though, don't you still have to have a CDL and stop at all the weigh stations? Do you truck all your own bees out to Cali yourself?


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## dbest (Aug 9, 2005)

pahvantpiper said:


> Dbest,
> even with farm plates though, don't you still have to have a CDL and stop at all the weigh stations? Do you truck all your own bees out to Cali yourself?


Yes I have a CDL and I do stop at the weigh stations. I carry a copy of the FMVSS book with me and often have to play the role of a kindergarten teacher and read the laws to them. My father drove a load out last Sunday. We hired the other loads. It keeps getting more and more difficult to deal with trucking companys. I trucked them to Ga.


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## pahvantpiper (Apr 25, 2006)

"I carry a copy of the FMVSS book with me and often have to play the role of a kindergarten teacher and read the laws to them."

I love it! There are so many regulations on trucking out there the cops can't even keep up with it and yet if we don't we're fined.


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## florida pollinator (Jul 31, 2006)

I have to agree with Jean-Marc, all 8 rear tires pulling off road are best with a big truck.A 4 way locker set of tandems. They are not common on most highway tractors,but when engaged all four sets of tires turn,not just one end on each axle.
A 6 foot Canadian spread is also nice ,in which the tandems are spread apart 6 feet, and pulls better on uneven terrain, which all helps with a heavy truck and load off road


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

>>Freightliner, International, Kenworth, Pete., etc.?
Horsepower?
Lock-in rear differential?
How heavy of axles?
How long of bed? I'm thinking 25 feet. 288 hives.
sleeper, or is this just a waste of space?
What other options?


I will toss a few thoughts into the discussion.

We have a Freightliner, big Detroit. But we pull two grain trailers. She likes here fuel, but thats what we expect when pulling a super B. If your pulling a lighter load, look for the smaller engines.
Locking difs are a must for any farming operation. It WILL get you out of a bind someday. A truck pulling an empty trailer, will always get stuck when put into awkward situations off pavement.
If your looking to pull a trailer, why look into only pulling 25 feet? Get yourself a 50 footer. YOu will use the space. Otherwise if your looking to pull 25 feet, get yourself a tone and a half. Fuel wise way more efficient.
Sometimes when looking for semis, alot of whats out there has sleepers. They dont add to the value or take from the value of a used semi. We bought a day cab, the other semi we were looking at had a sleeper. 

Dont buy a semi truck from the oil fields. Try to get history on the truck before you buy it. Some of those oil truck only have a quarter million on them, but they have been used like they have one and a half million, if you get my drift. I know alot of those transport truck can be really hit and miss, but I warn you, those oil field truck are not a good first buy kind of truck.

Our truck is equipped with a 3 way dif lock,
we can lock up both tires on the back axel,
or we can lock up both tires on the frount axel,
or we can lock up both tires on both axles,
It is a real nice system to have.


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## pahvantpiper (Apr 25, 2006)

*Thank you!!!*

Lots of great ideas, I really appreciate all the comments and help. I think I'm narrowing down my needs. I'm not sure I'm that comfortable stacking double deeps 4 high, especially in my yards - lots of off road, bumpy, some tight locations. I think, for the time being, I'll only go 3 high (216 hives). If I do this I may not need the bigger truck like the FL-112 or the KW T800. What I'm considering is something in the line of the KW T300, International 8600(which is still a good sized truck), or maybe a smaller international. I still want tandem axles for the sake of the truck but maybe only a 300 horsepower engine. I like the cummins and Detroit for gas mileage. The trucks mentioned have sloping hoods for good visibility and I think tight turning radiuses. I'll have to get lockers as I've been stuck too many times to risk that. Well, Thanks again.


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## river_rat2005 (Jan 19, 2009)

i drive a 18 wheeler for a living if i was you i would get a ch613 mack its a really tuff truck and its easy to fix. macks are made for off road .and i would get a 13 speed tranny with a low reduction switch for soft mud . good luck


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## dbest (Aug 9, 2005)

found another one

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1988....c0.m245&_trkparms=72:317|65:12|39:1|240:1318


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## Allen Dick (Jan 10, 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/v/_MdVPqDQeRE&hl=en

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MdVPqDQeRE&eurl=http://www.youtube.com/v/_MdVPqDQeRE&hl=en


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Allen,

That was priceless.


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

Couple of good trucks on ebay now....one a fl 70 with 36" sleeper andtool box but even a better bee truck if you dont need a sleeper is a Fl 80(says fl 50 but in description a fl 80 which is correct)with mercedes diesel. It has air ride and a 9 speed tranny(both a absolutely necessary thing on bee trucks)the 9 speed gives you a top end of 80 mph but you can crawl very slow off road! With a 5 or 6 speed you are slow off road then limted to 55 mph and that will get you run over on interstate or you go thru field too fast! There is no bed so you could build one specifically for bees. Starting bid is 6k with no reserve....if you are looking for a bee truck....a great one!


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## pahvantpiper (Apr 25, 2006)

*ebay*

Suttonbeeman,
There sure seem to be some good deals on ebay. I've spent the last month looking in the truck paper and going to truck dealers all over Utah trying to get just the right truck. I've seen some of the exact same trucks (same add and everything) on ebay as the truck paper only several thousand dollars cheaper. Thanx for the heads up. Don't know why I didn't try this before.


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## dbest (Aug 9, 2005)

here's a real steed:

http://www.truckpaper.com/listings/detail.aspx?OHID=2001663&guid=028543D202FB457187B3E32AE40E5D5F


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Gee dBest,

Rob is already going to be cutting bee boxes out at McDonald's wages and now your throwing him under the bus with that old iron. 

You guys are killing me.


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

I would go with the freightliner 112. tag is great for getting you stuck!! A Volvo 1997-2003 with detroit diesel gets great milage....empty..10 loaded(80k) with a 22ft tag trailer 7.


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