# first inspection on a nuc hive



## rwilly (Apr 6, 2012)

Hello all,
I installed a four frame nuc on sunday (actually the people that I got the bees from did, I stood back and watched). I was advised from the supplier that I should go out tonight (thursday) and install six new frames because the weather is looking good and the bees will be building quickly. I puklled off the hive-top feeder and was surprised to see burr comb on top of the nuc frames, and the frames were stuck together. I did my best as a guy that had never looked at a hive before, I didn't mess with any of the frames for fear of harming the queen, my smoker skills need some help too! It went out before I was done. 
All I did was pry the frames apart, I pulled two of them out for a brief looksee, I saw some of the larger "swarm/queen" cells that I have read about. I will be doing a more thorough inspection this sunday.
The bees were already bringing back pollen less than two hours of install.

1. I was surprised at the amount of propolis and burr comb.
2. The bees were way more docile than I expected.
3. The cells are a brown color, I expected a more honey color.
4. I am very excited to learn more and have a succesful run at beekeeping.
5. I am trying to get into a class and get some tips from more experienced keeps.

Sorry for rambling, it's just my excited mind venting from the first experience.


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## robherc (Mar 17, 2012)

so did you get the 6 empty frames installed?


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## rwilly (Apr 6, 2012)

Doh!
Yup, I got them installed.


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## robherc (Mar 17, 2012)

ok, just checking....if not, I was gonna say you really need to, so they don't continue with any swarming plans they might have


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## DJS (May 7, 2012)

Did my first inspection on my two 5 frame nucs today. I thought all went well tell I went back an hour later and seen a cluster of bees outside the box and the queen was in the middle of them. Must have fell off one of the frames, I was able to catcher and put her in the front of the hive. She whent in hope it was the right hive. I will make sure to be more cations next time. I seen about the same things in my hives as you did today.


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## rwilly (Apr 6, 2012)

I did a more thorough inspection today, Pulled out all the frames and looked them over, I didnt see any eggs, nor did I see the queen, but my girlfriend said she saw the queen. I didnt shake any of the bees off the frames cuz I didn't wanna lose the queen if she is there. I will try and post some pics.


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## Nantom670 (Jul 29, 2011)

The reason it is darker is because they are brood frames. I personally would not worry about the smoker when you are going in with this new hive. Mine are new, from Mar 22, and if I am going in to check them out, I do put on my veil jacket combination and just take the covers off and pull whatever frames I want to look at and that usually does not take over 5 minutes at the most for each hive. I do have for my inner cover a half wood and half plexiglass built together so that I can observe them by just removing the outer cover if I want to.
http://s1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb369/nantom670/


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## robherc (Mar 17, 2012)

Those look like some nice, dark brood frames rwilly; whomever you bought that nuc from may well have given you a VERY well established nuc colony! All else being the same, I'd buy from 'em again.


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## rwilly (Apr 6, 2012)

Good to know. I got them from a middle man who said he was very pleased with the quality also.
Nice inner cover, Nantom. It would be fun to have a observation hive.


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## rwilly (Apr 6, 2012)

Did a quick inspection today, it is the first day without rain in a week! I still haven't found the queen, but I saw eggs and larvae. So far, everything seems to be going well. They've been working on 6 maybe 7 frames with plastic foundation. The frames were stuck together with alot of burr comb, I tried to scrape most of it off, but there was still alot on them.I am eager to add the second deep hoping to get them motivated and make some honey! Blackberries are the big crop in this neighborhood and should be blooming in a few weeks I hope. I have been thinking of getting a few more hives but haven't decided yet.

The tip about using pine straw for smoker fuel really helped. I packed it tight just like the guy in the video did and the smoke was cool, my first inspection the smoke was too hot and irritated the bees.

I sure am glad this forum is here, I am learning alot from you guys and gals.


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## rwilly (Apr 6, 2012)

I hope you all don't mind me posting these updates. I am doing it as much for myself as others. Let me know if these posts are unwanted, and I will stop. 
I gave them another 10lbs of sugar today. I only did a quick scan on a few of the outside frames, there is alot of burr comb between and on top of the frames. The underside of the queen excluder had some comb with honey that I scrapped that off. 80% of the frames were being used so I added a second deep. I hope with the second deep, it might eliminate some of the burr comb. The Blackberrys should be in bloom in a week or so and that will possibly slow down their syrup intake.

The burr comb between the frames is making it so I can't push the frames together as tight as they should be. I don't want to squish the queen when I put the frames back together so I just go slowly and softly until they are touching.


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## robherc (Mar 17, 2012)

After adding the 2nd deep, I'd be tempted to stop feeding them for now & see how they do; you can always put the feeder back on them if they act like they really needed it, but my suspicion is that they probably don't.

As far as pushing frames with burr comb back together, I personally keep a sharp knife with me when doing inspections, and cut of any comb, or bit of wax, that extends into the bee space between my bars/frames while I have it out of the hive; then I can usually put the combs back in with little trouble, as the potential offenders have been removed already


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

Bees build lots of burr comb on plastic. You will have to scrape it off all the time.

Use a sharp knife or your hive tool to get rid of comb that extends between the frames.

Remove the queen excluder, you don't need it (in my opinion, not on production hives unless you need to trap the queen in the bottom brood box for some reason). What could you be excluding her from with no supers on? It's only another place for them to make burr comb at the moment.

Sounds like they are doing fine -- the burr comb problem will subside some when they get out of rapid expansion mode.

Peter


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## rwilly (Apr 6, 2012)

Actually, I don't know why I have the excluder on. The guy I got the hive and bees from told me to put it on. The only place she can go is into the feeder and I doubt she would want/need to climb up there.
I haven't cut the burr comb off because I haven't shaken any of the frames clear from bees, I am afraid of losing the queen, (and also making the bees mad and getting stung!). On my next inspection I will try and get some of it off. Today I noticed harldy any bees at the feeder, there were some working in the second deep.
Thanks for the replys.


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## Ben Franklin (May 3, 2011)

I would take a bucket with me to collect the burr comb, why waste good wax.
And keep posting,,you not only are helping yourself but helping others. This is the best forum or website I have seen for helping others.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

You may already know this, but you want to keep all of the frames pushed tight together at all times - with any extra space divided between the two outsides. Otherwise, they build burr comb between frames. Sounds like you are doing fine, but you should find a local association, and participate in it.


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## rwilly (Apr 6, 2012)

Ben, I agree, this is the best forum I have come across.
David, I keep all the frames tight like you said, for the most part the burr comb is along the top rail of the frame, I am going to keep them cleaner now that the bees are getting more situated in their new home. The guy I got the bees from is there if I need him to help me. If there is any honey this year I will be using his extractor. That is as far as I have gone towards joining any type of club. The few keeps that I have met locally have been friendly and more than happy to answer any questions I had.
Thanks again.


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## rwilly (Apr 6, 2012)

Today, 6-10-12.
Lots of bees in upper deep, but only #1 frame had any comb, just a little bit in top corner facing outside, I flipped frame to put honey towards center of hive, probably unnecessary in hindsight.
Pulled frame #4 from lower deep with brood/honey and switched with #4 frame from upper deep thinking it will help with the expansion of the hive. (as if they don't know what to do! )

I pulled the top feeder off on 06-08-12, there wasn't any activity except for red ants.
I have marked each frame 1-10 upper, and 1-10 lower. I don't know how long I will be able to see the number I wrote on them, but it is worth a try.

They seem to be doing pretty well considering I am inspecting/disturbing once a week. Brood in the center of the frames with honey surrounding them .


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## robherc (Mar 17, 2012)

rwilly said:


> Pulled frame #4 from lower deep with brood/honey and switched with #4 frame from upper deep thinking it will help with the expansion of the hive.


Congratulations, you did exactly what we would have suggested you do if you'd asked us about the slow building in the second deep...way to "think on your feet" 
It's usually recommended to pull 1 or 2 combs from a lower box & place in the upper box as a "ladder" to convince the bees that the upper box is usable space.


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## Keth Comollo (Nov 4, 2011)

I used to worry about burr comb but find that with more hives I don't have the time to make everything pretty. I will ocassionally rip the burr off the tops of the frames and some drone comb off the bottoms if it has gotten out of hand if I know the queen is not in that box but other than that I leave it alone. They are building it for a reason.


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## rwilly (Apr 6, 2012)

Thanks,
I am going by what I read on this forum. An invaluable tool.


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## rwilly (Apr 6, 2012)

I am limiting my inspections so as not to bother the bees.
I am only taking off the top and inner cover then peering down in between the frames in the upper deep, I did pull one out so I had space to work with. They are slowly building. They have about 2 frames full in the top deep. 

I had an old jar of half crystallized honey, yesterday I dumped it on a plastic plate and set it on top of the inner cover, then set an empty medium deep to cover it up and this morning it is all gone except the crystals. I spose it won't take long for them to clean that up as well. I noticed and unpleasant smell as I was doing this. I hope it is just something else other than the hive.
The weather has been gloomy for the past few weeks but we are due for prolonged sun this month. I will be able to do a more thorough inspection on a nice sunny day this weekend I hope.
The blackberries are in bloom now.
I don't plan on feeding anymore than the jar of honey I gave them, let nature take it's course for the most part.


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## linn (Nov 19, 2010)

Hi rwilly,
It is not a good idea to feed honey back to the bees unless it is from your own bees. You could end up giving your bees foulbrood. Your post is excellent and the pictures are great. Thanks so much from someone who is also learning.
linn


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

What did it smell like?


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## rwilly (Apr 6, 2012)

The thought of foulbrood didn't even cross my mind, thanks for pointing that out.
I went back out today and pulled the frames in the top box, there is a little bit more brood than just the one frame I moved up....maybe half a frames worth.
They are drawing out all the other frames except the two outside ones. Seems a little bit slow on building up but it might be due to lack of food.

I will probably check back in a few days and see if there is any improvement. The nice weather is finally here and expect to see them get busy!
The smell wasn't there when I checked on them today. Might have just been my imagination. I thought it smelled like something dead.


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## rwilly (Apr 6, 2012)

I saw today that they were working on all 10 frames in the upper deep, both sides. About 3 frames had brood. The others were nice white comb still being drawn.
I was hesitant to feed more syrup because I didn't want them to fill all the comb with it, but after more thought I am going to give them 5lbs of sugar. 
Am I right in guessing they take the syrup and place it in comb for later food source?
I am worried that they will fill the hive with sugar water and that doesn't sound good to me. I would like to get some honey from them this year, but in reality I should just be happy if they survive the upcoming winter. 
I need to focus on making the hive stronger.
I don't see them bringing anything back to the hive, but there is alot of bees coming and going. 
Where do they get the material to build comb?
Thanks, Ron


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

Feed syrup, not dry sugar -- they will NOT build comb on dry sugar, and this time of year will probably ignore it or haul it off as trash. Even in winter they eat the syrup that forms from condensation of when they add water, not the dry sugar.

Getting honey of a first year package is unlikely. More possibility for honey from a nuc, but this year I'd focus on getting them ready for winter. This is my goal, and why I'm feeding my two swarms even though they are packing away honey. I want nice strong hives for winter, and we are STILL dry as an old bone around here (rain went around me again this evening). It may be late fall before we get significant rain, and if that's the case, I'd much rather have syrup stored all over the hive than dead bees in the spring. Honey may be better, but I would have three hives instead of two if I'd fed my hive up properly last year.

Peter


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## Seymore (May 1, 2009)

>Where do they get the material to build comb?

They have glands that allow them to manufacture wax. But they need lots of feed to do it. (about 7 pounds honey = 1 pound wax, I've read). That's why it's so important to fees most new hives - so they have enough resources to build comb and then store honey after.


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## rwilly (Apr 6, 2012)

Thanks!


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

psfred said:


> Feed syrup, not dry sugar -- they will NOT build comb on dry sugar, and this time of year will probably ignore it or haul it off as trash. Even in winter they eat the syrup that forms from condensation of when they add water, not the dry sugar.


I agree with most of this, but I feed dry sugar as a regular practice on all of my hives in the winter - and it really looks to me like they *do* eat dry sugar in the winter without it first getting wet. Nothing scientific about it, just that when they start brooding up early on some of the hives are all over it all the time even when it is not at all damp. Some hives use a lot, some hardly any - it doesn't really seem to be related to colony size either - but in the hives that don't take it, it doesn't melt away as syrup. I've tried feeding candy in the summer just to see, and it will keep them from starving, but they don't really build up on it. And they might take it out with the trash.

I will make this observation on winter feeding sugar - the hives that take a lot of sugar/pollen candy in the winter build up earlier. May or may not be cause and effect.

A bit off topic. Sorry.


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## rwilly (Apr 6, 2012)

I went thru it today and the top brood box was completely drawn out. It was filled with syrup. I put a honey super on top thinking they might want more room. I don't anticipate getting honey from them, but it might encourage them to put more brood in the upper deep. I looked around in the lower deep and it had typical brood surrounded by honey but it also had alot of burr comb and what was either drone or queen cells.
I still haven't seen the queen, its obvious shes still in there.

Hlow many bees are killed on the average inspection? I try to be delicate with them but sometimes you just can't help it. I am paranoid of squishing the queen.


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## Seymore (May 1, 2009)

You are only allowed 4 bee deaths per inspection. It is commonly referred to as BDPI.


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## Seymore (May 1, 2009)

Ok, glad I got that out of my system. :lpf:Killing bees is part of it, unfortunately, but you can minimize it if you put the box on at an angle, kinda kitty cornered, then slide it in place.


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## rwilly (Apr 6, 2012)

I was just watching a Fatbeeman video of a hive inspection/split. He made it look so easy. My hive seems to have alot more bees than the one on that particular video. Today was the first time I looked into the lower deep, it has alot of burr comb and what looked like queen cells. I probably should be more vigilant in my inspections and quit being such a sissy! It's time for me to step up and do it frame by frame, locate the queen, get rid of all the burr comb. If there is indeed queen cells, should I just scrape them off?
I was thinking of getting another hive body, if I can find one cheap just in case I catch the swarm, or I am able to do a split. 
I am not too worried about a swarm, it's natures way of taking care of things, but I would hate to lose this hive so soon.
I really can't see how Fatbeeman and all the other experienced keeps get into these hives with no veils, smocks, etc.
Anywho, thanks for the replies.


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## rwilly (Apr 6, 2012)

The bees are drawing out the super I put on, but I put the hivetop feeder on in hopes it will speed up the process. I am wondering if they fill the super with syrup, how long before they get that out, and start storing honey in instead?
Thanks


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## rwilly (Apr 6, 2012)

Took a look today, it is 90deg. I didn't use any smoke.
The upper deep has 2 frames of brood/honey, the other frames are all honey, about 60% of it capped.
The first super is 80% about 1/2 capped.
Second super has maybe 2 frames worth of drawn comb.

I am surprised there isn't more brood in the upper deep. I didn't look in the lower deep. Everything seems to be going fine, I didnt see any swarm or queen cells.

I will give them some syrup, in hopes of building comb in the second super. I don't think there is much of a flow going on around here. Blackberries are done, mostly ornamental flowers and small gardens are all that is left.

Do they cap syrup for later consumption?


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

yes, they cap syrup just like honey.


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## rwilly (Apr 6, 2012)

So, they cap syrup just like nectar. Is it "honey" after they cap it? Can it be extracted and bottled just like nectar honey? Am I talking crazy here or what? LOL
I wouldn't think that sugar syrup is something that would be good for use as honey.
If it isn't good for harvesting, then how long does it take the bees to use what they store?


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## Keth Comollo (Nov 4, 2011)

Honey is from plant nectar. If you feed them syrup and they cap it it is capped syrup not honey. Never feed with honey supers on. If you do you can't bottle it and say it is honey because it isn't.


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## dnichols (May 28, 2012)

Goldenrod should be in bloom by now. The bees love it and it will help with the drawing out of comb on the second super. If you are serious about collecting some real honey and not funny honey I would remove feed and allow them to do their thing. After the fall flow you can start feeding again if you're concerned with them being strong enough to winter.


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## rwilly (Apr 6, 2012)

"Never feed with honey supers on."
Good advice, something I never thought of or heard before.

So how long will it be before the syrup is replaced with nectar? Is that something that can be answered? How long does it take bees to eat up a super? 

What I need to do is, stop feeding, replace the second super with a new one, when/if they fill that one I can pull it off, harvest it, and put the original back on to get them through winter. Might work?


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## hoodswoods (May 15, 2009)

Down here, feeding (necessary) and fall flow (since we don't have much) should be focused on packing stores around the brood area, or filling frames that can be utilized close by in the winter - not extraction.


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## rwilly (Apr 6, 2012)

Thanks for all your replies.


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