# Virginia Beekeepers Ass. meetng advice



## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

It seems to me that you have two choices. You can go to the meeting and see what he has to say or you can presume he’s corrupt, without any evidence, and not attend.


----------



## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

Today was the annual meeting of the Maine State Beekeepers Association and one of the speakers was Jerry Hayes. The first portion of his talk, I thought, was very interesting as he discussed the historical background of CCD. The latter part of his talk, I thought, went too deeply in touting the wonders and benefits of Monsanto's genetically modified corn and it's contribution to the world's health, nutrition and well-being. It was necessary to go into this, I guess, since like the corn, the concept of mucking with the honeybees' RNA is apparently key to what was billed as Monsanto's quest to "control Honey Bee parasites and pathogens using non-chemical controls." 

Not sure what the "non-chemical" is going to be but he implied that it is a product that will be sprayed directly on the bees. When asked if it persists, he said no. Seems that the "non-chemical" will be a product to purchase and apply annually. He did not take many questions. I wanted to ask if there is any resulting genetic changes that can ultimately be spread to neighboring non-treated hives through drones heading out to do what drones do, but did not get a chance to. (I suspect Monsanto's lawyers have determined there is no risk for this and he would not be able to say otherwise.) 

The speaker before Mr Hayes was Michael Bush. Since I was sitting behind him, I could only imagine what his reaction to the talk was.

My advice is to go to the meeting if there are other speakers and if you get a chance, ask Jerry Hayes about non-treated hives becoming genetically mucked up since Monsanto will obviously be unable to control the flight paths of drones treated with their "non-chemical."

Wayne


----------



## toad (Jun 18, 2009)

Wayne,
Thanks for the information. Very interesting as I wanted to go to the meeting and ask questions. Looks like Jerry and Monsanto are to smart to take questions. I'm just wondering why any beekeepers association would have him come speak. I can't believe that Monsanto has beekeepers best interest unless it is money to them. Ask the dairy farmers how Monsanto helped them. None I have talked to still use there product because it was so bad for the cows.


----------



## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

In his defense, he did take some questions, though, perhaps due to time constraints, he didn't take a lot and I didn't get a chance to ask mine. Most questions did not get to the heart of the technology and it's impacts, except for the one person who asked if the treatment persists or needs to be done on a regular basis. 

The first questioner did directly ask why he was coming to our meeting to (and I'm paraphrasing.) act as a shill for a company that is causing so many problems for us. I suspect that that might have put him a bit on the defensive side though I would expect him to get used to it, since so many believe that the fox is now guarding the hen house.

At the Maine annual meeting, the Monsanto promotion was a small part of the entire program, and as I said, the first half of his talk was interesting. You may find the rest of your meeting worthwhile and informative also. Dr, Nancy Ostiguy is researching CCD at Penn State, focusing on non-pesticidal approaches to pest control and should be an interesting speaker at your meeting. 

Wayne


----------



## jbeshearse (Oct 7, 2009)

Sorry, you are just being crazy. Jerry was the head of the Florida Apiary Inspection division in FLorida prior to joining Monsanto. It is easy to paint with a broad brush. I am sure that he has nothing but the best intentions for the bees and beekeepers. 

If you do no research, you will never progress to a better position. Someone has to do the research and it has to be paid for. Be thankful that it is someone with your and the bees interest at heart.


----------



## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

jbeshearse said:


> Sorry, you are just being crazy....


I have no interest in what he did in Florida. I know what I heard him say Saturday and I know who is paying his salary now.

I have no intention of ever buying a Monsanto product so I'm just going to have to continue with the soft-treatments I use if required. My only fear is the possibility of our bee stock being ruined by Monsanto-generated genetics. He didn't rule that out in his presentation in Maine, didn't even broach the subject.

And please, don't call me crazy. That's quite rude of you. Learn some manners.

Wayne


----------



## jbeshearse (Oct 7, 2009)

toad said:


> I just can not believe that the association is having him speak or thinks that he has beekeepers best interest. Am I just being crazy??
> I know that Jerry and Monsanto say they want to help control honey bee pest and find a solution for CCD but as far as I'm concerned they are the problem that's causing the CCD. Again I'm I crazy.


The crazy statement was not for you WaynesGarden. When someone asks a rhetorical question they should expect an answer they may not like.

And believe me, if they try and patent bee genetics then charge everyone who's bees get contaminated with them we will all be screaming like crazy. Paint them how you wish, but Monsanto has fed a lot of people. I don't want to get into an aurgument here and I know that many feel that Monsanto is "The Great Satan". But there is always more than one side of any story. I just think it is shortsighted and frankly, to condemn someone from association and ignore all past accomplishments and things they have done is insulting.

I would bet you benefit from Monsanto products quite often, like it or not.

As for manners, pot calling the kettle I would say.

Matters not, You take care and you do have my best wishes.

jeb


----------



## linn (Nov 19, 2010)

One thing Jerry Hayes mentioned was the Israeli Acute Paralysis Honeybee Viruses. I remember first reading about this honeybee virus in the Zola Leavitt newsletter. I don't have a copy of the article and cannot find it on the internet. It was a good article. Jerry Hayes just briefly mentioned about the Israeli Acute Paralysis Virus. linn


----------



## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

waynesgarden said:


> many believe that the fox is now guarding the hen house.


I always find it interesting when folks immediately associate a paycheck and corruption. So many people believe everyone thinks the same as they do themselves….making such insinuations a personal reflection.
It just might be that Jerry Hayes is in the fox den protecting the chickens. It seems reasonable to me to give folks a chance to prove their worth.


----------



## Andrew Dewey (Aug 23, 2005)

I too was at the Maine meeting and heard Jerry Hayes speak. I am generally skeptical about all of the big ag chemical companies, however Jerry seemed to go out of his way to say that Monsanto has not always been a perfect corporate citizen. Monsanto purchased the company Jerry now works for - Beeologics - which sounds like it was a smart move for Monsanto. My understanding is that Beeologics did not have the cash resources to complete the research they wanted to do and Monsanto does.

Now I'll be the first to acknowledge that Monsanto is acting in Monsanto's best interests: yet the RNA research is fascinating, particularly for beekeepers who dislike using older ag chemicals for mite control in their hives. I'm inclined to see where they go with their research and product development, making up my mind as to whether or not their products are something I want to use as more information becomes available.

I was sitting next to Michael Bush at the meeting (one of the benefits of being a State Association Board member) and I got the impression (he was not all that talkative) that he understood very clearly that he was speaking at a meeting with lots of chemical users present, and that the typical natural approach to beekeeping lecture would not go over well. He spoke on myths in beekeeping, which having read his book and on-line materials, covered no new ground for me. Michael also had the speaking slot right after lunch which didn't help. I know I was drowsy!

My conclusion: Jerry Hayes knows bees and is worth listening to for that alone. The work of Beeologics is interesting, and I am not willing to completely dismiss it just because the company is now owned by Monsanto.

Many of the ag chemical companies are often demonized for their practices. I tend to shy away from Animal Farm like generalizations ("four legs good") and will wait to see how this plays out. And I will be watching.


----------



## Andrew Dewey (Aug 23, 2005)

duplicate post


----------



## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

I have nothing against Jerry personally (hey, we thanked him in our book...it was an answer he provided in his Classroom collumn that lead us to our interest in the microbial aspects of honeybees).

BUT

One must accept that as a director of Beeologics (owned in whole by Monsanto) that Jerry now has obligations....specifically fiduciary duties....under which it would be a breach of his duties to do anything that isn't in the best interest of the corporation (Monsanto and/or Beeoloiogics...I believe their interests are one and the same).

From: http://business-law.lawyers.com/small-business-law/Fiduciary-Responsibilities-Corporations.html


> Directors must act in the best interests of the corporation and its members or stockholders. More specifically, the duty to act in good faith prohibits members of the board of directors from:
> 
> Failing to act in the face of a known duty to act
> Acting in a manner unrelated to a pursuit of the corporation's best interest
> Maintaining a sustained or systematic failure to provide oversight


Again, there is nothing personal in this evaluation....Jerry simply has no freedom to act in the best interests of anyone but Monsanto...in many cases, such a breach would be an actual felony, not just grounds for being fired (and losing a fat monsanto retirement package to boot).

This is a cut and dried issue...there is no room for Jerry to act in your interest if it conflicts with that of Monsanto.

deknow


----------



## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

deknow said:


> This is a cut and dried issue....


Nothing cut and dried about it. If a product produced by a company is faulty or unreasonably dangerous its delivery and use would be deemed ‘not in the best interest of the company’. The board of directors has a responsibility to assure the success of a company and delivering a defective product is the surest means to failure.


----------



## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

Yes, Jerry will act in your best interest in the cases in which your best interest and the best interests of Monsanto are one and the same. I don't find this reassuring. ...but in such a case, is the best interest of Monsanto to have Jerry talking about the evil Monsanto publicly at a bee meeting, or working within the corporation behind closed doors? Do you think that dangerous products and profits are mutually exclusive?

deknow


----------



## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

deknow said:


> I don't find this reassuring. ...


I don't look for reassurance. I look for evidence. Until such time as there is any, I refuse to form an opinion based on anyone's prejudice.


----------



## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

...prejudice? This is the letter of the law, and most assuredly of Jerry's contract. What do you think his job description is?

deknow


----------



## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

deknow said:


> ...prejudice?


Jerry is obligated to do his best to assure the success of the company.
You have already presumed the worst case. You don’t have a stitch of evidence. Prejudice….yes.
I will allow the man to prove himself, one way or the other.
Having said this, I am not going to engage in a never ending, convoluted, semantic debate with you.
So…go ahead….have the last word.


----------



## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

beemandan said:


> You have already presumed the worst case. You don’t have a stitch of evidence.


Please don't put words in my mouth...I've presumed nothing other than his obligations are to Monsanto. My concerns over the RNAi technology predate Jerry's hiring, and are based on my understanding of the technology...I've written quite a bit on beesource about it.

The only "worst case" I've discussed is that the best interests of monsanto (monsanto profits) are most adssuridly not the best interests of beekeepers (I don't own monsanto stock, and don't benefit if monsanto makes a profit).

deknow


----------



## JohnBeeMan (Feb 24, 2004)

I am planning to attend this meeting. Listenning to his presentation does not mean that I will sign up to be a follower. I attend the state meetings to help stay informed of all new developments in bee management. Sometimes I learn some new 'dos' and sometimes I learn some 'do nots'.


----------



## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

Certainly attend, whether you support genetic manipulation or not. As Sun Tzu wrote in On the Art of War, "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer." It's up to each individual to decide if Monsanto will be a friend to beekeepers.

As I said previously, even if you ardently disagree, there certainly will be much you will find of value at the meeting.

Wayne


----------



## toad (Jun 18, 2009)

Thanks deknow I'm glad someone agrees.
beemandan, I understand what you are saying, and I know there is no smoking gun between Monsanto and CCD but I know for certain that if you were to ask David Hackenberg or Dave Mendes they would tell you other wise!


----------



## julysun (Apr 25, 2012)

"Jerry is obligated to do his best to assure the success of the company.
You have already presumed the worst case. You don’t have a stitch of evidence. Prejudice….yes.
I will allow the man to prove himself, one way or the other.
Having said this, I am not going to engage in a never ending, convoluted, semantic debate with you.
So…go ahead….have the last word." beemandan. 

:applause:


----------



## indypartridge (Nov 18, 2004)

Find yourself a copy of the July 2012 _American Bee Journal_. There's an in-depth interview with Jerry on why he accepted the position at Monsanto and the work there (pages 657-659). 

Given Jerry's long-standing reputation within the beekeeping community, I'd be eager to hear his opinions and viewpoints. 

As an aside, last year here in Indiana we had a speaker from Bayer Crop Sciences (which is more implicated by CCD than Monsanto). I believe as beekeepers, we need more interaction with Bayer and Monsanto, not less.


----------



## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

toad said:


> I'm shocked and amazed that one of the two speakers is Jerry Hayes, if your not familiar with him he is a honey bee guy that works for Monsanto!
> I just can not believe that the association is having him speak or thinks that he has beekeepers best interest.


Toad,

If you're so displeased with how the state org is selecting speakers then take a more active role in the organization. I'm certain that your willingness to participate would be welcomed.


----------



## giant pumpkin peep (Mar 14, 2009)

I dont know if anyone noticed, but look at the title of this thread w/out the "meeting advice". If thats what your having a meeting about, I think Ill pass.


----------



## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

toad said:


> Thanks deknow I'm glad someone agrees.
> beemandan, I understand what you are saying, and I know there is no smoking gun between Monsanto and CCD but I know for certain that if you were to ask David Hackenberg or Dave Mendes they would tell you other wise!


For sure, but Dave and Dave have an agenda. At least one of them received huge FSA payments for his CCD losses. Not taking any sides here. I only know my bees and my territory...and I'm surrounded by an ocean of corn in some apiaries. They both claim clothianadin in corn is killing their bees. At the EAS meeting, Dave M told me just because my bees are surrounded by corn, and I'm not seeing an issue...great honey crop and strong colonies...that it isn't true. 

He said, "I take my bees to almonds and they get a dose, I take my bees to blueberries and they get a dose, I take my bees to cranberries and they get a dose, and when I take them anywhere near corn, they crash." 

I looked at him and said, "They get a dose on almonds, blueberries, and cranberries, and then crash on the corn? And it's the corn??" 

"But if your making a honey crop", says DM, "You have other things around and the bees don't have to visit the corn and you aren't being affected."

I asked him, "Why would you move your bees to anywhere where there is only corn and no other forage?"

He said..."I don't."

????


----------



## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

Thank you for that, Michael.

Toad, I'm not sure what you think I'm in agreement with. I certainly don't think Jerry should be completely ignored.....I'd say listen to what he has to say with the same skepticism one might have when listening to a white house press secretary from an administration you don't favor.

Deknow


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Michael Palmer said:


> For sure, but Dave and Dave have an agenda. At least one of them received huge FSA payments for his CCD losses. Not taking any sides here. I only know my bees and my territory...and I'm surrounded by an ocean of corn in some apiaries. They both claim clothianadin in corn is killing their bees. At the EAS meeting, Dave M told me just because my bees are surrounded by corn, and I'm not seeing an issue...great honey crop and strong colonies...that it isn't true.
> 
> He said, "I take my bees to almonds and they get a dose, I take my bees to blueberries and they get a dose, I take my bees to cranberries and they get a dose, and when I take them anywhere near corn, they crash."
> 
> ...


First reaction to Michael's Post? We all choose our own poison.

I have to ask. If a beekeeper chooses to make their income from knowingly constant exposure of their livestock to pesticides and ag chems what do they expect and why shoulkd anyone else pay them for their losses?

I take my bees to apples in the Spring and take my lumps on honey production and colony mortality(not that I can see any directly attributable to the pollination). Some, this year went to blueberries in NC and apples in NY and my honey crop this year is up 15 lbs better than last year.

When people ask me why the crop was what it was I always blame the manager first, and then the weather.


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

toad said:


> I just can not believe that the association is having him speak or thinks that he has beekeepers best interest. Am I just being crazy??
> I know that Jerry and Monsanto say they want to help control honey bee pest and find a solution for CCD but as far as I'm concerned they are the problem that's causing the CCD. Again I'm I crazy.


Crazy? No, but seems you have made up your mind about Jerry Hayes. So, if you go and listen to what he has to say whatever he says will be tainted by your bias.

I think you should go and listen. Then how you feel may be justified or you may find that you will learn something.

Set aside your preconceptions and you might enjoy his talk.


----------



## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

Michael Palmer said:


> I only know my bees and my territory...and I'm surrounded by an ocean of corn in some apiaries. They both claim clothianadin in corn is killing their bees.


I know my bees and my territory too, and I can assure you that my bees are in an area where they are directly exposed to clothianadin, both from corn and cotton spray. I have seen ZERO impact as a result of this exposure. I'd go as far to say that my bees have never been healthier in the past 11 years. Zero losses last winter and monster colonies this season.


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

What about when next to peanuts AstroBee? Been to the PPP Festival this year?


----------



## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

sqkcrk said:


> ...if you go and listen to what he has to say whatever he says will be tainted by your bias.


I think if one were to go hear Jerry give this talk at this point and expect that you are being presented with unbiased information, I would say, "Yes Virginia, there is a Santa Claus".

deknow


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Would you call that your bias?
My bias is that I respect Jerry Hayes and would like to kn ow what he has to say and I would like to know why he feels working on Beeologics for Monsanto is a good idea for him, a good career path move.

I think anyone going into any informatiuon sharing situation w/out recognizing that each and every person has an agenda is foolish and delusional. That being said, an open mind and open eyes are called for when one opens themselves to learning something new.


----------



## WesternWilson (Jul 18, 2012)

Personally, I hope Monsanto showers bee researchers and scientists with grant money. We can all read, and evaluate their methodology, and decide for ourselves if their results are valid.

Monsanto is a business, and job one is earning money for shareholders. But that does not, past gaffes (and many of those have been overstated) notwithstanding, _mean they are out to kill bees_, or act against the best interests of healthy humans, stock and crops. That would not serve the long term interests of the corporation.

I do not think a polarized debate, and polarized positions, are going to help any of us. We need to work with researchers, even if funded by Monsanto and its holding companies, and work with agribusiness companies, to be sure the needs of bees and beekeepers are publicized and met. Walking out on BeeLogic or Monsanto speakers (which happened in our last association meeting as well) is not going to help.

Monsanto products are, as someone mentioned, feeding lots of people. There is nothing wrong, and much right, with improving crops, even with genetic modification, if it is regulated and examined (which it presently is, although I would like there to be more regulation and more noise about that process, particularly in the Third World testing fields, where desperation and hunger tempt people to take shortcuts). I would be happy if Monsanto engineered pest resistant crops (instead of pesticide resistant crops) AS LONG AS the pollen, nectar and field detritus/dust are safe for living things. I think this is achievable.
_
Beekeepers need to speak up and they need to listen, if only to gain an opportunity to speak up at the highest levels. You can bet Jerry will sit down with Monsanto execs and say "hey, they are ready to tar and feather me out there! Beekeepers need to hear you are taking care of their interests, because they are a big, powerful lobby with the greens and environmentalists, not to mention every mommy feeding kids in America, at their backs. Here is what they told me...."_. I hope he attends TONS of beekeeper association meetings and hears beekeeper concerns over and over and over again!!!

I would also be very happy to buy a Monsanto product that via RNAi techniques, stopped the life cycles of the pests, bacteria and viruses plaguing bees. That technique is at the forefront of medical research helping people and it can help the bees too. I would much rather buy a species specific kill than soak my hives in miticides, hoping the bees can take the side effects.

* Science does not have to be Franken-science.*


----------



## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

WesternWilson said:


> Walking out on BeeLogic or Monsanto speakers (which happened in our last association meeting as well) is not going to help.


That's just rude. You don't have to agree with someone's position, but showing disrespect by walking out on them shows just who the fools are. What a great opportunity to actually have Jerry there in person to ask your questions to and hear, from him, what he's doing in his position with Monsanto.


----------



## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

Barry, I think that is premature judgement without knowing what was said that lead to someone walking out....I've been at talks where this was justified.

I know another beekeeper that is quick to walk out of a talk if he doesn't like where it's going....not to be rude, but he would like to not say anything bad about anyone, _and_ he would like to be honest when asked what he thought of the presentation....leaving the talk allows for both.

As Sgt. Schultz would say, "I hear nothing!"

deknow


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Walking out can signify a number of things. It can be done to show opposition to the Speaker, the Speaker's message, that which the Speaker represents. It could also indicate a need to visit the rest room which is more important at the moment than the Speaker and their message.

I don't spend the whole day in my seat at bee mtngs. I try to leave before the Speaker is introduced. Hallway conversations can be as valuable as what Speakers have to present.

I thought Schultz said, "I know nuthink!!"


----------



## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

sqkcrk said:


> Would you call that your bias?


...if you want to call it bias to recognize that when Jerry is talking, he is speaking as an officer of a corporation, and that when interfacing with beekeepers, he is only permitted to say things that will help Monsanto's bottom line, then sure, that's my bias.

deknow


----------



## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Sorry, I don't buy into this thinking. Unless the speaker was being rude, walking out when you don't happen to agree with what they're saying is rude. A reflection of our current societal mindset that thinks of "me" first and has little training about respect of others.


----------



## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

At age 61 I have had many adult years to observe human nature. From those observations I have formed any number of prejudices. One is that people who are suspicious by their nature should be watched carefully. Another is that people who are trusting by their nature are usually trustworthy. I’ve had the opportunity to talk with Jerry Hayes on a number of occasions and he always struck me as a trusting individual, so I would presume his integrity unless proven otherwise.


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Where is the "Like" button?


----------



## Andrew Dewey (Aug 23, 2005)

sqkcrk said:


> Where is the "Like" button?


<<LIKE>>

I'm pressing it too!


----------



## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

...I am only suspicious that Jerry has integrity, and that the system of carrots and sticks within the Monsanto organization operates as intended........thus I'm suspicious that the man will do his job.

deknow


----------



## Andrew Dewey (Aug 23, 2005)

@Dean - I've thought long and hard how to say this - I hope sticking to known facts will convey what I want it to.

The Jerry Hayes presentation in Maine was an articulate, well presented pre-sales talk. Do I want to rush out and buy the product? No. 

Am I interested in learning what they are working on? Yes.

I felt Jerry was a much more dynamic speaker than some of the others on the program.

Dave Hackenberg told a group at MOFGA's Common Ground Country Fair that the neo-nics run is just about over, that patent protection for them is fading fast, and that the ag chemical companies are hard at work on next generation pesticides. I want to know more about these next generation pesticides and it appears that Monsanto has some eggs in the Beeologic basket - thus I'll at least listen to Jerry, who certainly has my respect for his beekeeping abilities. And yes I know a sales pitch when I hear one.

Context for intelligent decision making is important. I may not be smart, but I wasn't born yesterday.


----------



## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

Andrew, I think that was very well put.

I don't think, however, that the best understanding of the technology and the implications will come from listening to Jerry...I think some of the discussions here on beesource with WLC contributing have been interesting to me...I feel I do understand that the end product (WRT bees) will be a vaccine that is taylord to the diseases/pests du jour (probably made up from a few thousand samples taken in the almonds each year), and that the unintended consequence (or perhaps intended) is the removal of any kind of selection pressure towards disease/pest resistance. The monsanto juiced bees, unemcumbered by the need to expend energy in defending against disease, outcompete anything being bred for robust survival (by beekeepers or in feral populations) (even if the effects of the monsanto juice wear off over time).....and poof, the only way to keep bees alive is with monsanto juice du jour.

WRT the technology in general, it as huge implications throughout all of agriculture and medicine....which is why monsanto bought beeologics....bees are just the proof of concept of the technology because CCD was in the news, and there was a virus that could be targeted (IAPV).

Personally, I think when we cheat the deck so much that we can simply eliminate pests and disease, nature (human or otherwise) will come from some unexpected direction to zero out the equations.

For those still reading, and who heard this year about the surprise of the corn rootworm developing resistance to monsanto's bt corn, here is a little ditty from Michael Pollan....from 1998 talking about the inevitablity of the resistance, and the attitudes of Monsanto....
http://michaelpollan.com/articles-archive/playing-god-in-the-garden/



> Monsanto executives offer two basic responses to criticism of their Bt crops. The first is that their voluntary resistance-management plans will work, though the company’s definition of success will come as small consolation to an organic farmer: Monsanto scientists told me that if all goes well, resistance can be postponed for 30 years. (Some scientists believe it will come in three to five years.) The second response is more troubling. In St. Louis, I met with Jerry Hjelle, Monsanto’s vice president for regulatory affairs. Hjelle told me that resistance should not unduly concern us since ”there are a thousand other Bt’s out there” — other insecticidal proteins. ”We can handle this problem with new products,” he said. ”The critics don’t know what we have in the pipeline.”
> 
> And then Hjelle uttered two words that I thought had been expunged from the corporate vocabulary a long time ago: ”Trust us.”


----------



## jredburn (Feb 25, 2012)

When Jerry Hayes was head of the Apiary Inspection Dept for Florida, he went to the head of the Pest Control Dept and requested that honey bee's be reclassified as pests. This means that bees could not be collected by bee keepers any more and would have to be killed by pest control persons. He then quit and went to work for Monsanto. Coincidence?

The head of the Pest Control Dept Mr Michael Page has revoked the agreement with the bee keeprs and it is now illegal to remove bees from a structure unless yoiu are a Licensed Pest contol person.

Tell me again that Mr Hayes has the best interests of bees at heart so's I can understand better.
Regards
Joe


----------



## jbeshearse (Oct 7, 2009)

deknow said:


> I know another beekeeper that is quick to walk out of a talk if he doesn't like where it's going....not to be rude, but he would like to not say anything bad about anyone, _and_ he would like to be honest when asked what he thought of the presentation....leaving the talk allows for both.
> 
> deknow


Yet you know he left....




deknow said:


> "Yes Virginia, there is a Santa Claus".
> 
> deknow


----------



## winevines (Apr 7, 2007)

Far more important IMHO, please ask the VSBA them why they continue to hoard funds and what the plans are for the ever growing treasury? I have about a zillion ideas.


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

jredburn said:


> When Jerry Hayes was head of the Apiary Inspection Dept for Florida, he went to the head of the Pest Control Dept and requested that honey bee's be reclassified as pests. This means that bees could not be collected by bee keepers any more and would have to be killed by pest control persons. He then quit and went to work for Monsanto. Coincidence?
> 
> The head of the Pest Control Dept Mr Michael Page has revoked the agreement with the bee keeprs and it is now illegal to remove bees from a structure unless yoiu are a Licensed Pest contol person.
> 
> ...


As a Public Servant he is responsible for taking into consideration what is best for everyone in the State, not just the beekeepers. With AHB in FL how else was he supposed to act? Though I wonder why it was him and not someone higher up. Unless the chain of command requested that Jerry make the request.

Would you want to face the law suits if while removing an AHB colony from a structure a mass stinging attack killed a bystander?


----------



## TWall (May 19, 2010)

deknow said:


> Personally, I think when we cheat the deck so much that we can simply eliminate pests and disease, nature (human or otherwise) will come from some unexpected direction to zero out the equations.
> 
> For those still reading, and who heard this year about the surprise of the corn rootworm developing resistance to monsanto's bt corn, here is a little ditty from Michael Pollan....from 1998 talking about the inevitablity of the resistance, and the attitudes of Monsanto....
> http://michaelpollan.com/articles-archive/playing-god-in-the-garden/


Dean,

I remember when Bt corn came out thinking to myself I wonder how many farmers are going to follow the recommendations fully? The pests will find ways to overcome, we will not readicate them. We can hope to develope management protocols, IPM, to minimize their impact below economic thresholds.



The best way to change a pest is to try and eradicate it!

Tom


----------



## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

sqkcrk said:


> What about when next to peanuts AstroBee? Been to the PPP Festival this year?


We have limited amount of peanuts around where my colonies are located. The big crops are cotton, soybeans, and corn. Yes, the original home of Planters Peanuts is no longer the big producer it once was. I have one small peanut yard about 1/2 mile away and haven't seen any issues. 

We missed the PPP fest this year, but have been there several times before - I really like the setting! Did you attend? If you do in the future please let me know and I'll stop by, or you can swing by the house for lunch. I'll even bring a sample of Virginia's Finest - honey of course.


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I have not been to the Festival since 1984, back when I worked at CW. I have a number of memories of Suffolk Co early 19th Century architecture from traveling the back roads w/ CW's Historical Architects. And going out on Hog Island to look for eagles and snow geese.

Have some peanut soup for me sometime.


----------



## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

Deknow, what are your concerns with Rnai tech in this regard? I think people read into the Monsanto buying Beeologics too much. I think it was WLC who pointed out why they bought them. 

I don't see why anyone is surprised about resistance, we all know that's what happens in todays modern ag era and huge monocultures. I think a majority of it has been traced back to poor refuge management by the farmers as well in these areas but I would agree, that it is still Monsanto's fault for not distilling/enforcing the ideal refuge practices of people using their product.


----------



## winevines (Apr 7, 2007)

AstroBee said:


> Toad,
> take a more active role in the organization. I'm certain that your willingness to participate would be welcomed.


You have got to be kidding. That ship is locked up tighter than tight.


----------



## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> Set aside your preconceptions and you might enjoy his talk.


I can't Mark, I know how big corporation operate and freedom of speech is not in their program. Kinda like listening to any politician. What ever Jerry Hayes was before he is not himself now. I will bet my life on it.


----------



## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Barry said:


> Sorry, I don't buy into this thinking. Unless the speaker was being rude, walking out when you don't happen to agree with what they're saying is rude.


Walking out is probably the most polite thing to do if someone is feeding you a bunch of hogwash. To stay would only make matters worse. If I was sitting there listening to someones hogwash they would want me to quietly leave ... trust me.


----------



## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

beemandan said:


> One is that people who are suspicious by their nature should be watched carefully. Another is that people who are trusting by their nature are usually trustworthy.


Every con man in the world banks on that and cashes in. Check out Bernie Madoff. I haven't reach 60 yet but I learn fast.


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

winevines said:


> You have got to be kidding. That ship is locked up tighter than tight.


Those who standby and accept the status quo deserve what they themselves accept by not gtetting involved. Figure out what it takes. Volunhteer for a job no one else wants to do. See a need and fill it. Get on a Committee. Show up when committees meet and sit in. If they don't want your participation go anyway.

Go to Board of Directors Meetings, most are open to members or should be. Make a pest of yourself, with kindness of course, if that's what it takes. Don't accept things the way they are. Change comes by one person standing up.

Of course I don't know what you mean or what VA Beekeepers Association is like, but it doesn't matter. If you think something isn't right it is your duty to say so. Certainly there is a General Membership Meeting, isn't there? Get up and speak during New Business. Make a Motion. Have someone nominate you for a position. Nothing may come of it at first but you will be noticed. Keep trying. Don't give up.


----------



## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

sqkcrk said:


> Go to Board of Directors Meetings, most are open to members or should be. Make a pest of yourself, with kindness of course, if that's what it takes. Don't accept things the way they are. Change comes by one person standing up.


You obviously don't know Karla...Winevines. There aren't many out there as active and kind, and open to...and at the forefront of change, as she is. You're preaching to the choir director Mark.


----------



## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Acebird said:


> Every con man in the world banks on that and cashes in.


I never met ol' Bernie, so I can't say how trusting he was. But, as with all stereotypes, there are exceptions. Which is why I said '*usually* trustworthy'.


----------



## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Congratulations to all on a great, thoughtful and for the most part respectful thread. Some well thought out posts here on a controversial subject. MP, as always with some good perspectives and a few good candidates for best post of the year. I hearby nominate post #27


----------



## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

winevines said:


> You have got to be kidding. That ship is locked up tighter than tight.


Hmmm... Then how was it that the previous president went from a total rookie about 5 years ago to the state president after attending a relatively few state meeting. Seems like that ship has room for new passengers.


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Michael Palmer said:


> You obviously don't know Karla...Winevines. There aren't many out there as active and kind, and open to...and at the forefront of change, as she is. You're preaching to the choir director Mark.


Then Karla knows what I am sayingt and should have said it herself me thinks. Thanks for the info, I don't know Karla ... winevives. I do know Statewide Beekeeping Organizations, such as ESHPA and how deadlocked and in the past things can be.


----------



## JohnBeeMan (Feb 24, 2004)

I missed Jerry's presentation yesterday on the Monsanto issues but heard him today on his beliefs on AHBs. He appears to think his solution for Florida is suitable for all of us. That solution is that the AHB threat is such large a danger to the public that only licensed pest control companies with 12s of millions of liability insurance coverage should be permitted to deal with feral colonies in or near homes. I walked away from his presentation with the feeling that his opinion could be summed up as 'the only good bee is a dead bee'.

In Virginia we are at the very edge of climate where AHBs are even considered to be a major threat. The number one solution in our area is still requeen and not the flame thrower.


----------



## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Hmm, I think I will withdraw this comment for the moment.


----------



## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Yeah and I would like to withdraw post #62! Except for the part about MP


----------



## jredburn (Feb 25, 2012)

i just read a report put out by the Florida Task Force on AHB in 2004 and according to the paper we are all dead from the terrible African bee. It predicts massive death counts and thousands of attacks on animals every year. It is a gross exaggeration of the possibilities and is used to justify the demand for massive funding from the State legislature. 
Some facts that you can check for your self.
The State of Florida has had over 500 swarm traps across the State since 2003 and they kill every swarm they catch. About 300 per year. About 40 of these show partial hybridization.
Prior to 1990 there were 40 to 50 deaths every year from bee stings in the entire US, About 1 death per year per state.
Since 2000 the figure has dropped to between 30 and 40. Probably because of the decline in the number of feral colonies.
From 1990 to 2004 there were 14 deaths due to AHB across 7 states. There have been four more that I can find between 2004 and now. There may be more but I cannot find them.
There have been two recorded deaths in Florida due to AHB since they arrived in the State around 2005. One was a 70+ year old man with Arthritis and severe allergic reactions to bee stings. He was stung 50 times.
One of the local inspectors popped the lid on a hive recently with only a smoker and no suit or veil. The colony came up in his face and put him in the hospital for 3 days. The bees did not test positive for AHB.
You are more likely to die in your bathtub than die from a bee sting in Florida.
There are 3 deaths per year in Florida from being hit on the head by a falling coconut. Is the State going to make us put fences around all the coconut trees?

Do not mistake me, I work the AHB on a regular basis and they can be very hostile or aggressive. I have a pop up tent that I put over the cut out before I start any extraction so I can contain the bees and my suit is armor plated. I have had so many bees on my veil that I could not see through it.

Without an agenda to exploit, the funding for the State Bee Dept would dry up. They need the problem and they will never do anything to solve it.

Just something to think about
Joe


----------

