# Wax moth issue where to get bt aizawai?



## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Not many sellers online; Here's one:
http://www.hidhut.com/xentari-p-31.html

and same seller, but at a higher price with shipping included:
http://www.amazon.com/Xentari-XenTa...e=UTF8&qid=1408334442&sr=8-1&keywords=xentari

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## liljake83 (Jul 2, 2013)

Thanks radar I should have just pm you , you seem to know everything I have another question if this product works and it has to do with beekeeping how come it isnt in any beekeeping catalogs?


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## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

Caterpillar Killer is the name of the BT I use. I never can find it in the big box stores; but the local small town hardware has it.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Note that _Caterpillar Killer_ is *not *'aizawai' variety of Bt. According to the manufacturer ...


> bacillus thuringiensis var. [HIGHLIGHT]Kurstaki[/HIGHLIGHT]
> 
> 
> http://www.saferbrand.com/store/garden-care/5163


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## ukewarrior (Jul 4, 2013)

I got some recently from amazon.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

*Re: Wax moth issue where to get Bt 'Aizawai'*

If you used the forum search feature, for "bt", you might have located this post. And in that thread there is contact info on obtaining Bt 'Aizawai'.

I've also purchased it from Beeworks, in Canada. They have the product identified as B401 or Certan.


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## Ddawg (Feb 17, 2012)

liljake83 said:


> Well I got the wax moths in my stored supers I have heard spraying with bt is a good prevention but it seems it is hard to find anybody know where to purchase?



I ordered some from Amazon. I believe it was also prime free shipping.


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## liljake83 (Jul 2, 2013)

Thanks for the info on where to buy but has anybody actually used and what were your results?


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## beesohappy (Jun 3, 2009)

I'm wondering the same thing. I have 80 deeps and 40 shallows that I've sprayed down with the stuff. I hope to never see wax moth damage anymore, at least not in these hives.

Can people that have actually used this product please post their finding.

Thank you.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

I've been using it for years with excellent results. :thumbsup:


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

It sure is nice to see a wax moth larvae that started out munching on your comb and is only 1/4" long and had only made it an inch or so and died because of bt.Its also nice to not have to clean out all those cocoons they leave and not have all your wooden ware full of hole from them.


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## ccar2000 (Aug 9, 2009)

+1 for Amazon.


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

The stuff seems a bit pricey untill you think about the cost of replacing wooden ware and wax foundation because of the worms.Then also one of those bags goes a long long way.You can treat lots of hives boxes and frames and wax with one of those bags which makes it well worth its cost.


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## liljake83 (Jul 2, 2013)

Works great and I dont think it is exspensive at all the bt on amazon is a huge bag it will last along time


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

Been using BT 7 years with very good results. I get a little moth damage but it isn't bad.
Just bought a fresh bag of the Xtera to refresh my stock


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## beesohappy (Jun 3, 2009)

Does this sound about right?

I've been mixing a heaping tablespoon to one gallon of non chlorinated water. Then I shake it up and spray everything till it's wet, shaking as I go. Then I stack the boxes up and let them dry. Some of the frames are drawn out with wax and some aren't.

I have some comb that's gotten eaten up by the moths stacked up till I can get to them. I'm thinking of just spraying them down and letting my new splits clean them up. Will this be ok you think? Maybe one in each nuc?


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

The only thing I do differently, is I use city water. Doesn't seem to be a problem.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

I use city water too with no problems. 

After spraying I initially stack up the boxes crossed for a couple of days to allow plenty of air flow so the frames are completely dry. Don't want any mold on the wax from trapped moisture. Then re-stack them in the regular way for winter, and seal off the top and bottom to keep the mice out.


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

I wonder which strain of bt would kill hive beetle larvae.I would be willing to bet one of them would but which one and if the makers of bt are testing.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

One study of Bt and small hive beetles ...


> Zusammenfassung: Small hive beetles, Aethina tumida Murray, are parasites and scavengers of honeybee colonies, Apis mellifera L., and have become an invasive species that can cause considerable damage in its new distribution areas. An effective subspecies of Bacillus thuringiensis Berliner (=Bt) would provide an alternative to chemical control of this pest. Therefore, we tested three different Bt strains [B. thuringiensis, var. aizawai (B401((R))), B. thuringiensis var. kurstaki (Novodor((R))) and B. thuringiensis var. San Diego tenebrionis (Jackpot((R)))] and Perizin((R)) (3.2% coumaphos), each applied on combs with a pollen diet fed to pairs of adult beetles. This evaluates the products for the suppression of successful small hive beetle reproduction. [HIGHLIGHT]While none of the tested Bt strains showed a significant effect on the number of produced wandering larvae,[/HIGHLIGHT] we could confirm the efficacy of coumaphos for the control of small hive beetles. We further show that it is also efficient when applied with a lower concentration as a liquid on the combs. We suggest the continued search for efficient Bt strains naturally infesting small hive beetles in its endemic and new ranges, which may become a part of the integrated management of this pest
> 
> _See this link for more:
> _http://www.agroscope.admin.ch/publikationen/einzelpublikation/index.html?lang=de&aid=10717&pid=17145


Note that the coumaphos mentioned in that quote is not Bt, it is a registered varroa and SHB control in the form of CheckMite+. However, coumaphos is a relatively harsh pesticide that leaves long-lasting residues in the hive.

.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Mike Gillmore said:


> I've been using it for years with excellent results. :thumbsup:


I spray the combs right after they come out of the extractor...........fast, easy and best .........it works!


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## Pete O (Jul 13, 2013)

BT really works!! A few minutes ago I was checking my stack of stored frames and it was 100% free of moths or damage. 

You only use a tiny amount in a quart sprayer; whatever size bottle of BT you get, it should last a lifetime.

4 hives, 2.5 yrs.experience


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

They have tested three strains of bt but there are still dozens more of other strains.One problem I see is those other strains are not commercially produced.There is probably one that would work but which one and it would have to be someone in a lab with access to them all to do the testing.Now that would take lots of money to do that kind of study.



Rader Sidetrack said:


> One study of Bt and small hive beetles ...
> 
> 
> Note that the coumaphos mentioned in that quote is not Bt, it is a registered varroa and SHB control in the form of CheckMite+. However, coumaphos is a relatively harsh pesticide that leaves long-lasting residues in the hive.


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## beesohappy (Jun 3, 2009)

Is there any reason why my kids shouldn't help with the spraying or the handling of the frames? Their ages are 7-13.

Something else I've noticed is that the smell when it's mixed up kind of smells like beef broth or beef jerky and my hands have a smooth graphite, silicon feel to them.


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## ccar2000 (Aug 9, 2009)

I am surprised that folks are having wax moths in honey supers. I thought they only went for brood comb, unless some of the frames have both honey and brood comb?

I spray my spare equipment annually whether or not it has been utilized.

I also keep my spare equipment alternately stacked to allow as much light in as possible. I cover them with a "clear/opaque" garbage bag to allow the light in and keep the blowing dust out, somewhat.

I bought a 1/2 gallon pump sprayer dedicated to the BT mix and a second one for drench treatments. They are super convenient for my backyard hobbyist apiary.


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

It is non hazardous to humans.There is one strain that is advertized as helpful in one of the yogurts.I saw it on tv a few weeks ago.


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## ccar2000 (Aug 9, 2009)

beesohappy said:


> Is there any reason why my kids shouldn't help with the spraying or the handling of the frames? Their ages are 7-13.
> 
> Something else I've noticed is that the smell when it's mixed up kind of smells like beef broth or beef jerky and my hands have a smooth graphite, silicon feel to them.


If you are concerned then you should protect your self and kids with something. Maybe as simple as long sleeves and disposable gloves? I stack up my equipment, pull a single frame, set it on top of the box full of frames and hold it with my fingertips while spraying. I have not had the feeling of something remaining on my hands but I keep my hands away from my eyes, nose and mouth until I can wash them. I understand that the BT works when digested? Maybe someone knows better. Anyways, be safe and show your kids how to be safe too.


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## stavros (Feb 26, 2008)

On a similar topic, I sprayed bt aizawai in my supers last fall and just checked them: no wax moth damage. Do I need to spray every year bt, or does one spray suffice for many years? What is your experience?
Thanks a lot, 
Stavros


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Sundance (who used to sell it on BS) told me that I only needed to do it once every 3 years. However, I never marked which ones I did or did not, so I just spray them all every year as they come out of the extractor (b4 they go back in the supers).............


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## RONJON (Apr 6, 2015)

I'M WONDERING HOW TO APPLY XENTARI TO AN EXISTING HIVE WITH SUPER ON IT. CAN I JUST OPEN THE HIVE AND MIST THE MEDICATION INTO THE HIVE OR IS IT NOT NEARLY THAT EASY ? THE HIVE IN QUESTION HAS A FAIR AMOUNT OF BEES AND HONEY BUT IS WEAK DUE TO A POOR QUEEN AND WAX MOTHS ARE "MOVING IN". I NEED TO "FIX" THIS HIVE BEFORE THINGS GET OUT OF HAND. THANKS. P.S. WILL THIS MED AFFECT THE HONEY ?


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

Thats a good question RONJON.I have always sprayed empty combs,foundation and wooden ware.It shouldnt hurt the bees since its a larvae killer of certain insects and bees are not listed for it to harmful to.It wont hurt honey so you are OK there.If it was me I would get another box and spray it with Bt first.Then use it to transfer everything to.I think I would bump all the bees off of each frame and spray everything around the brood.The brood being sprayed may chill and kill them and I wouldnt want to weaken it farther.Then spray the rest of everything including the top cover and lid.That way you can keep them from eating up all your wood.The other thing would to be to kill the queen and combine with another hive.When that hive is built up good you can split it so you will still have the same amount of hives.Bt is not a medication you can just mist in.It needs to be sprayed on everything because the larvae have to eat it for it to kill them.


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## RONJON (Apr 6, 2015)

snapper1d said:


> Thats a good question RONJON.I have always sprayed empty combs,foundation and wooden ware.It shouldnt hurt the bees since its a larvae killer of certain insects and bees are not listed for it to harmful to.It wont hurt honey so you are OK there.If it was me I would get another box and spray it with Bt first.Then use it to transfer everything to.I think I would bump all the bees off of each frame and spray everything around the brood.The brood being sprayed may chill and kill them and I wouldnt want to weaken it farther.Then spray the rest of everything including the top cover and lid.That way you can keep them from eating up all your wood.The other thing would to be to kill the queen and combine with another hive.When that hive is built up good you can split it so you will still have the same amount of hives.Bt is not a medication you can just mist in.It needs to be sprayed on everything because the larvae have to eat it for it to kill them.


IT SEEMS THAT I COULD MIX THE XENTARI AT A LITTLE HIGHER TEMP THAN AMBIENT ATMOSPHERE AND SPRAY IT LIGHTLY ON EACH FRAME AND THE HIVE BODY, TOP, AND BOTTOM; THEN RETURN ALL TO THE HIVE BODY. MIGHT THIS WORK ? THANKS.


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

Well you can try it and see if it doesnt hurt the open brood.


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

You don't spray BT in living beehives. Living beehives shouldn't have wax moth problems unless they're aren't enough bees in them.
The BT is sprayed on frames, then they are allowed to dry, & stored for future use. Once dry they can be put back in a beehive, but if you're hive is to week to defend itself you would be better off removing a box completely.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

If you have a current infestation of wax moth larvae you can spray it directly on the combs. If you don't, then I wouldn't bother with it, or just spray it on combs you wish to store.


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## beesohappy (Jun 3, 2009)

Whats the average time it takes for wax moth larvae to be killed after spraying frames with it?


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

It doesnt take too long.When they eat some Bt the small ones can go an in or maybe two and they are dead.I sprayed some grown ones one and they stopped eating pretty quick.I think it was a couple hours or so.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Whats the average time it takes for wax moth larvae to be killed after spraying frames with it?

They all seem to be dead or dying the next day.


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

RONJON said:


> I'M WONDERING HOW TO APPLY XENTARI TO AN EXISTING HIVE WITH SUPER ON IT. CAN I JUST OPEN THE HIVE AND MIST THE MEDICATION INTO THE HIVE OR IS IT NOT NEARLY THAT EASY ? THE HIVE IN QUESTION HAS A FAIR AMOUNT OF BEES AND HONEY BUT IS WEAK DUE TO A POOR QUEEN AND WAX MOTHS ARE "MOVING IN". I NEED TO "FIX" THIS HIVE BEFORE THINGS GET OUT OF HAND. THANKS. P.S. WILL THIS MED AFFECT THE HONEY ?


You need to get it on the comb so that the BT is there when the larvae chew on it. If you really have to treat a live hive, spray open brood comb as much as you can or, replace empty brood frames with frames that have been treated with BT (swap them out). But, keep in mind that your primary concern should be to strengthen the weak hive so spraying BT isn't your optimal solution.


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## SallyD (Mar 12, 2011)

How long does the BT's last? I have some of the powder I bought from Sundance 2 years ago-( it is not mixed)-just wondering if it is still good.


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

Its probably still good.When sprayed on your frames and comb it last years so it should last in the package even better.Remember just mix up only what you will be using because it goes bad in a day or so when mixed.


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## SallyD (Mar 12, 2011)

snapper1d said:


> Its probably still good.When sprayed on your frames and comb it last years so it should last in the package even better.Remember just mix up only what you will be using because it goes bad in a day or so when mixed.


Thanks snapper - i knew it didn't last very long once mixed. I didn't realize once it was sprayed on frames though it lasted a few years. Good to know.


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

I just bought new BT after using Sundance BT for 6 years. It was still working.


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## SouthTexasJohn (Mar 16, 2015)

I just ordered some Amazon. Trying to be ready.


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## ABruce (Dec 27, 2013)

I understand Sundance is or was a member here. Is he still around and does he still sell BT?
thanks


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

No, _Sundance _is no longer selling Bt AFAIK. He hasn't logged into Beesource for almost a year.


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## paintingpreacher (Jul 29, 2006)

Bought some from Sundance two years ago. I used it one year then stored the bag in a sealed ice cream box. To my surprise when I opened the container last year it had disintegrated. There was just a small amount in the bag and it had hardened. Can someone tell me what happened. The bag was also sealed inside the container. How should it be stored? Thanks


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

Keep checking on Amazon. They sell it but it's sporadic. Shelf life is forever but once you mix it with water, it's only good for a day.


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

My 6 year old bag was in the zip lock bag he shipped it to me in.
Its still dry granules & good. I gave it to a friend when I bought my new bag.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> No, _Sundance _is no longer selling Bt AFAIK. He hasn't logged into Beesource for almost a year.





BeeCurious said:


> If someone is interested in becoming the new "Sundance" BT supplier, the bacillus thuringiensis aizawai powders are available in 5 pound bags through some of the Crop Production Services distributors.
> 
> For example, Crop Production Services in Fancher, NY sells XenTari-BT for $18.55 per lb. (5# bag) and Agree WG BT is currently $15.50 per lb. (5# bag).
> 
> ...


FYI...


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