# Making a Long Lang need help with making Frames



## Tigger19687 (Dec 27, 2014)

I apologize if you think this should NOT be in the Topbar section, but I look at the Long Langs like a Top bar but long and rectangular.

I was going to use just plain Top-Bars but I am thinking that using a regular Deep base frame would be more secure (for the comb)and easier for me.

My eyes are bleeding from looking through the site trying to find some answers.

1) Size ?? So in a Top-bar you have widths of 1-1/4, 1-3/8 etc. For a Tall Lang hive are ALL Frames that you buy the same width ? I couldn't find the actual size on here nor on any website where I could buy them. 
Or are Supers a thicker width because it is for Honey and Deeps thinner for the Brood?

2) I don't mind making these from scratch (if it is cheaper) I have plans here, although I won't make them super deep 
http://www.horizontalhive.com/how-to-build/deep-frame-do-it-yourself.shtml

But in these plans, the bar is 1" wide only ??? Seems easy enough, I do have some woodworking experience..

Can someone help me ?


BTW, I got a Regular Top-bar hive that someone was selling (bought for $50), made from scratch (ok workmanship) with the top bars, 1-1/4 and 1-3/8 (I think) and it is all set up in the back yard for when I really want to get bees and get going... long story why I have not done it yet.
This Long Lang is for filling in my time making something


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Commercially available frames are all 1 3/8" wide (endbar width) AFAIK. At one time Kelley's did offer 1 1/4" endbars, but reportedly they do not currently offer them.

If you want narrower frames, trimming down purchased endbars or making your own are about the only options.

Sometimes, _once the comb is drawn_, frames are spaced further apart than 1 3/8" in the honey supers. That would be like 9 frames in a 10 frame box, or 7 frames in an 8 frame box. The point of the wide spacing is so the capped honey frames will be somewhat wider than the frame itself, and be easier to uncap - and also yield more honey per frame processed. But the wood part of the frame is still a standard width.


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## whiskers (Aug 28, 2011)

In a lang it is necessary for the bees to be able to pass by the top bars so that they can easily access the next layer of the hive. Thus the frames are made to index on the side bars and the top bars are narrower to allow space for the bees to pass. This is not usually necessary or even desirable in a top bar hive. Most top bar hives have a space between the top bars and the roof, if the bees can access this space they will probably build comb in it. So the top bars are installed touching each other. If one uses lang frames some inner cover will need to be provided, such as a thin sheet of plywood or a cloth cover. If one wants frames where the top bars touch some custom design will be necessary. I imagine a top bar of the width you desire, two dowels for side bars and a rectangular bottom bar of about 3/4 inch width. I choose dowels for side bars because the mortise to secure them in can be made quickly with a drill.

An advantage of the lang frames is that they provide means for upward supering if that is your desire. Also the ability to substitute frames from/to lang hives

Custom frames would eliminate the need for inner cover, and are easily made from relatively cheap materials.

Good luck with your bees-
Bill


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Linda
I made two long langs (which I have not used yet). When I posted pictures on this site someone mentioned that I would be smashing bees when I put the cover back on due to lack of bee space. I added a 3/8 inch shim and put a bunch of 1x6 boards on top of the shim and put the cover over that. It should give me the ability to open small portions of the hive at a time (one supposed bennifit of top bar) but let me use normal frames. I just used the beesource free lang plan for a medium and made that medium 48 inches long.

I haven't used it yet so can't tell you how smart I was.
Cheers
gww


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## crmauch (Mar 3, 2016)

Tigger19687 said:


> BTW, I got a Regular Top-bar hive that someone was selling (bought for $50), made from scratch (ok workmanship) with the top bars, 1-1/4 and 1-3/8 (I think) and it is all set up in the back yard for when I really want to get bees and get going... long story why I have not done it yet.


When you have time would love to hear the story.


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## Tigger19687 (Dec 27, 2014)

Thanks all,
After searching and reading all sorts of different thread here I think I should just use the Top-bar and KISS (keep it simple stupid).

So I will make the Long Lang that is on the horizontal hive site.
I think I will also use the 2x2 furring strips so I can use a router to make a 'V' wedge on the underside and put in a little handle on the top. Thinking it is better to have a good screw hold in deeper wood then only a 1" strip.


My long story is .......... you asked....
I started this adventure back in Summer of 2014. I had plenty of time to research the How to's, look for Sites not on my property (I rent and have ****** neighborhood kids--only enough room for 1 hive) and then I could build during the Winter.
My Mom was diagnosed with Lung cancer (non smoker) later that Summer but no symptoms so while I still studied a little she passed on that Thanksgiving 2014. 
That put a hold on everything. Funerals in AZ in December and then up here on Cape Cod (they live there during the Summers) Jan of 2015. I didn't have anytime to really study enough to build my own Long Hive.
Dad was not doing very well with this, physically and mentally, mostly mentally (age 84).

So the rest of 2015 was trying to make sure that he would be taken care of, in and out of the hospital, AZ then Here. And of course Boston had the worst Winter on 2016 ---- 9 feet of snow in 6 weeks time from the last week in Jan thru till March.
There just was not enough time to get enough studying and building of hives.

Then Summer of 2016 My father said he would help financially with buying a house. GREAT, my rental SUCKS, cheap, but sucks. Every season there is some huge issue where I can't get a garden going, have to move my Carport, driveway is all chewed up that I twist my ankle when I have to walk on that side and there is no money to fix it the landlord says...... yeah, can't wait to go. BUT it is SUPER cheap and I have 5 bedrooms (2 small) for only my daughter and I 

Real Estate up here sucks, not enough inventory so the price skyrockets but I want to stay in my town, it is small, quiet and I still have 3 years of High school for my Daughter. HATE renting. I am a true homeowner that likes to get my hands dirty and fix things. Lost my 1890 Victorian in my Divorce 

SO, I studied this Winter, still studying... and decided that if I could get a hive together I would put out a Bait-box and if I caught something, Great, if not, meh...

I cruise the CL ads all the time, Free section the most. I see someone made a top bar (v shape) and was moving. Never used, did the plans on Bush Farms site. Had all the top-bars done (1-1/4 and 1-3/8 or maybe they are 1-1/2 can't remember).
Not the greatest made box, but it was a box and it had the top-bars and that made me buy it !.
Asking $75, not worth that much, I offered $50 (probably the price of the wood plus some time) He took it so I brought it home 

It's in my back yard and I am SO glad I didn't get bees. 

1) we just got snow  Come one Spring [email protected][email protected]

2) my landlord tells me yesterday that he has guys coming to put up siding on the Duplex... TOMORROW !! Again, there is always something that gets in my way with outside stuff. And I refuse to work on the rental for a landlord that doesn't give a **** ... and WHERE IS MY NEW DRIVEWAY ??? whatever, Le Sigh.
Maybe I should just find a single family rental (those are so hard to find) in my town for the next 3 years, then move to another town where I can have a bigger yard and a cheaper house and ALL THE BEES I WANT !

So, there it is. My long story.


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## jadebees (May 9, 2013)

If you learn how the top cloth is used in an original Warre hive, you can place cloth over frame tops in a Long Lang hive. Or, put under the roof, a 3/8" strip all around. Just the same as a Lang inner cover. I have done both, the 3/8" strip is better. Or you could fabricate a long inner cover. If I was to make another, I would just use a long inner cover. Both work, and allow you to buy standard frames.


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## MattDavey (Dec 16, 2011)

Here is a discussion about my Long Lang:

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?291607-3x-Longhive

Just use standard Langstroth frames. Put 3 standard boxes next to each other to work out the dimensions. The legs are just 2x "H" shapes. The base is marine grade plywood with a shim. This one can be supered as well. The lids are covered with a sheet of plastic and it is flexible to cover the supers as well. There are also entrances in the front of the lids. I also use hive mats on the top of the frames.

Anything shorter than 3 boxes is too small.


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## Tigger19687 (Dec 27, 2014)

Matt that is Awesome, and exactly what I was looking for.
I may even change the Top-bar one I have now into a Long Lang. The guy who made it left the ends Square. So all I have to do is drop the sides, router the edge so the bars sit on the inside.. 
Thanks for the Link. I will save it so I can study it. I won't have legs, I will be putting mine on Cinder Blocks due to Snow/Mud around here as I wouldn't want it to sink in  Because that would be my luck


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

For regular width frames (1 3/8") follow these:
http://www.beesource.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/dadantfr.pdf

For narrow frames (1 1/4"), subtract 1/8" from every dimension that is in the direction of the width.


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## Murdock (Jun 16, 2013)

That's exactly what I do whiskers and it is working very well. I have a Kenyan and 2 long hives that are all deeps. Keep the bars and frames the same as a Lang and use a small inner cover and the normal spacing if using Lang frames. If all of your bars/frames are standard you can put a bar into a Lang hive and get them to start you some comb. I use 1 3/8 wide bars.


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