# Bee Pasture



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Our fall pastures are lush with growth. We under seed our pastures with a scattering of clovers. Proper rotational grazing promotes an abundance of bee forage year long while the pasture grasses receive the benefit of added nitrogen and improved soil structure. This pasture was a buzz this fall morning.

Small actions, huge results


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## Rob Hughes (Apr 23, 2012)

Nice. Do you disk over the pasture and re -sow the sweet clover each year, or will it successfully re-seed itself? Here the grass growth is usually too thick for this to work and it means more tilling. Tried sainfoin and lots of clovers here, with variable results. The sainfoin does not do well here and is out competed by lots of other locals. Would like to try some hubam sweet clover, but can't find a Canadian supplier - any sources out your way? Attached a pic of some of mine. It's good for several weeks in July here, then goes over fairly fast.

Rob


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

No it re establishes itself each year. Some clovers being bi annuals. If your grass is out competing the clover, your not grazing enough. We typically don't have issue with under grazing. When used in a rotation, that graze down and re-growth is allowed to happen


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## beecavalier (Jan 30, 2014)

Nice


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

How do you fit Roundup into that rotation? 
My apologies....I'm just being bad today.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

beemandan said:


> How do you fit Roundup into that rotation?
> My apologies....I'm just being bad today.


Not for our pasture management but roundup and GM tech fits into the rest of our farm in a major way. Better crops , clean fields and healthier soils.


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## BWrangler (Aug 14, 2002)

Nice! I'm neither farmer nor rancher but mob grazing is interesting and has caught my attention.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

I like what he said, and o paraphrase; " it's not an answer to everything, but it's an improvement."

We are not as intensive as his operation, but we do follow the same philosophy and rotate through paddocks on most all pastures we ranch. 
Being a beekeeper I appreciate the clover growth which is included in our pasture growth to improve the cattles grazing diet and add to the land because it also provides my hives with essential season long nourishment. 

Small actions , huge results


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Yes, I see the added benefits--nitrogen and bee foods.
When is the time that you sow the clover seeds?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

During pasture establishment or anytime with simple broadcast or overseeding


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## B&E (Dec 27, 2011)

Ian said:


> Not for our pasture management but roundup and GM tech fits into the rest of our farm in a major way. Better crops , clean fields and healthier soils.


Really? I don't think it's all it's cracked up to be. 
http://www.ecowatch.com/fda-glyphosate-honey-2005556150.html


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## B&E (Dec 27, 2011)

Btw: I hate that this is on a site called eco watch. But this is some troubling news nevertheless.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Not all it's cracked up to be? There is no doubt in what I said. Less weeds, bigger crops, cleaner fields, less cultivation, healthier soils.


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## B&E (Dec 27, 2011)

You said better crops. Are crops better if herbicide is in them? Are soils healthier? 

Did you read that article? That doesn't bother you?


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## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

Ian I have the use of about 4 acres that I plough and plant for bee pasture, I have planted crimson clover and ladino but am trying to now add the sweet clovers to extend the season. Grasses are the problem as there is quite a lot of Johnston grass that tends to take over the fields, do you think grazing with sheep could help.
Johno


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

B&E said:


> You said better crops. Are crops better if herbicide is in them? Are soils healthier?
> 
> Did you read that article? That doesn't bother you?


I don't know what else you'd want me to say other than what I personally experience here on my farm. Im the one investing the operating cash, managing the land, growing the crops and harvesting the bounty. Economics and sustainability. It's all about tillage and hard to kill perennial weeds. We cover more acres and utilize more land through though weather conditions throughout the growing season by having clean crops.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

johno said:


> Ian I have the use of about 4 acres that I plough and plant for bee pasture, I have planted crimson clover and ladino but am trying to now add the sweet clovers to extend the season. Grasses are the problem as there is quite a lot of Johnston grass that tends to take over the fields, do you think grazing with sheep could help.
> Johno


Yes in rotations. But sheep graze differently than cattle, nipping rather than ripping. I'm sure the same principles follow, graze it down and allow regrowth, before grazing it back down. 
But if your objective is different than mine where as I want the grass and you don't.


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## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

Ya Ian, I do not own the land otherwise I would just spray with vantage. Thinking about the sheep, we have so many hunting hounds running around the sheep wont last a week. I thought with grazing the animals would prefer the clover to the grass, pity though as good mutton is hard to come by here.
Johno


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## Tim KS (May 9, 2014)

Ian said:


> Not all it's cracked up to be? There is no doubt in what I said. Less weeds, bigger crops, cleaner fields, less cultivation, healthier soils.


I agree 1000% with this. Just because there is very, very, very small amount of glyphosate in honey will not hurt anyone. Your drinking water has more harmful stuff in it. Don't sweat the small stuff.........


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

It's amusing Beekeepers focus on that farmer applied product rather than those beekeeper applied products.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

Ian said:


> It's amusing Beekeepers focus on that farmer applied product rather than those beekeeper applied products.


Not all focus on only that.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Not all my yards have the luxury of sitting within reach of our pastures.


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## B&E (Dec 27, 2011)

The issue is that people are eating food. If you knew your honey had 107 ppb in it, would you feed it to your children? 

I'm not saying roundup isn't a good tool. I didn't even insinute it shouldn't be used. But if you don't think it's overused in agriculture then I don't think this conversation can go too far. 

You've had other posts Ian about increasing bee pasture. I was getting pretty excited about that. Are you in favour of roundup ready alfalfa?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Round up ready alfalfa, yes. 
We have pasture lands that are plagued with bearded foxtail. That application would prove very useful.


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## B&E (Dec 27, 2011)

The dandelion isn't an important flow to your bees?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Oh yes very good flow, but from around the edges and throughout the pastures , not within our fields


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Ian said:


> Not for our pasture management but roundup and GM tech fits into the rest of our farm in a major way. Better crops , clean fields and healthier soils.


Ian I am still a little confused, I am not sure what you are trying to say. I don't really get how roundup is making your soils healthier. My understanding of healthier soil would include a soil with greater humus... greater amounts of microorganisms. I don't see Roundup doing that nor was it intended for that.

Perhaps your fields have less weeds in them when you use GM tech and Roundup and from that perspective you have "healthier soils". Shed some light would you please.

Jean-Marc


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Pre GM tech we controlled our perennials with tillage, mostly quack grass and thistles being the issues. Tillage three time before spring and three times in fall, and the crop rotated wirh a year of summer fallow every third. The goal was pulverized and kill, which worked to a small extent except it killed our soul structure. 

Fast forward to today, 1/3 of our 3000 acre grain farm is zero tilled and the other 2/3 of the acreage is hit once in the fall. Our soil structure has never been better, compaction issue have disappeared and water infiltration is excellent. The once "hard pan" has disappeared. 

I'm not making an uninformed comment. If GM tech hadn't provided the opportunity to target these weeds in their most vulnerable stage, the effectiveness of roundup wouldn't be as dramatic, and I would not be able to manage my tillage in these very efficient ways


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Tillage is not about killing weeds anymore. It's now only about mixing crop residues to prepare the seed bed.


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

I wonder how much less diesel is used? Tilling 3000 acres six times is 18000 acres tilled, versus 2000 acres once. If my basic math is right that is 16,000 acres less to be tilled offset a bit by more spraying. When looking at environmental impact I think one has to consider the amount of fossil fuels used.


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## B&E (Dec 27, 2011)

All I was trying to do is raise the issue that roundup was found in honey....

Ian, I would wager anything that your best soils will be found in your pastures. As for water infiltration, Ontario has the opposite problem. Most good farmers are switching back to deep ripping. After a 15 years of no till, the ground is so packed that the water runs off the fields when it rains in the heat of summer. I realize that the prairies has a different soil type, and no till has prevented it from all blowing into ON...as the old saying went.

As for bee pasture, I fail to see how a beekeeper could be in favour of spraying off millions of dandelions. In one breathe Ian, you are saying "stop spraying the ditches", and in the next, "let's spray alfalfa". Surely a few more weeds in the alfalfa is better than roundup in our milk. No?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Brian (correct me if I got your name wrong)
Yes, your absolutely right, I'm speaking from both parties, I have too, I'm the president of a multi enterprise family farm. Dollars and cents, the bottom line. It's the system that has been set, it's the most efficient model, it's the one we use. It works very well.
BUT I'm also the manager of the farm apiary and everyday is a reminder how staggeringly quickly conditions have changed. 
As a beekeeper, your not going to be able to change land management. Farmers love their machinery and love their clean fields even more. But as a beekeeper we can encourage bee friendly practices around the edges...like the sprinkling of clover in my pastures. AND DITCHES! Here is a place 60-90' of right away on a grid right across the country not owned by anyone but the crown that we can claim "in the name of nature" to promote bee and native pollinator health. For all the noise BIG Environment makes, here is a objective within the reach of government that would instantly do a world of good. 
I see the benefit here. 

I'm not staking out a camp. I'm managing my operstion to find solutions. Dandelions make terrible cattle pastures. When dandelions take over our pastures we roundup and re-establish with a nice Brome clover mix. 👍 
Try making a $5000 per acre payment on a dandelion pasture...


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

If I could replace some of our bearded foxtail pasture with roundup ready alfalfa my bees would benifet, my cows would gain and I'd be yielding more revenue off tough land. Our farm is a mix of landscapes. It's not always "la la" at the Steppler Farm.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

Ian said:


> Not all my yards have the luxury of sitting within reach of our pastures.


Wow, nice picture!


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## becsbeehive (Oct 29, 2016)

what kind of camera are you using to get those close up shots?


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