# Working bees at night



## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

A well respected beekeeper is advising working bees at night. How many of you experienced beekeepers agree with this ?


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

I move them at night(got a load sitting in the driveway right now)but I REALLY REALLY hate to open a strong hive on a warm night.They crawl ,they burrow,they find every tiny opening,then let you have it.I know that YOU know that od!But sometimes I will put sticky supers back on at night (between flows)so they can clean them up before morning to avoid getting robbing started.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I was putting sticky supers back on at night when I learned not to do that! They were all over me and, as you say, they burrow and hold on. They don't ever give up or leave.

I try to never open them at night.


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## Gregg (Dec 22, 2003)

Agreed (with loggermike & MB). I only move them at night, out of necessity. They don't like to be disturbed at night.

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Gregg Stewart


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## Guest (Jun 16, 2004)

I was working a hive one night a few years back.... Needless to say, I haven't opened a hive at night to do a full inspection since. 

I rarely get stung. I have gone for 2 years straight without a sting but that is usually because I fully suit up and wear a zipper veil, gloves, etc.... (Full body armor). I'm not allergic, but I hate to get stung. 

Anyhow, those bees where the most upset hive I have ever worked. I ended up with 28 stings (4 through leather gloves) in various places on my body and that was wearing full body armor, smoking the bees and everything. They found holes in my veil that I would have never thought they could find and get through. Believe me, it is disconcerting to have a bee crawling in your ear!

A couple of days later I went back to check the hive to finish what I had started (and pick up the tools I had dropped on my quick exit) and the bees were as calm as could be.

I'll never work another hive at night if I can help it. To much stress on me and the bees.

I have captured swarms at night but wouldn't recommend that either! The swarms weren't that aggressive but it is just difficult to do a good job and see everything that you need to see and do in the dark. ( I wouldn't want to be the person holding the light for you in either case)


[This message has been edited by dtwilliamson (edited June 16, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by dtwilliamson (edited June 16, 2004).]


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## WineMan (May 16, 2003)

The heat of summer isnt a good time to work bees at night. Ooooo the joys of crawling bees. However, in the cooler spring weather I make nucs at night especially if there is a nice moon.


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2004)

Maybe this well respected beekeeper is trying to weed some amateurs out of the beekeeper ranks??? :0

All the veterans know better!


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## Scot Mc Pherson (Oct 12, 2001)

No, I seriously doubt she would do that. I think she really does work the bees at night. I also know she doesn't use smoke unless she has to, and only wears a veil when she has to. I also know she's been keeping bees for far longer than most of us here. AND I also know she's one of the most helpful people and I consider her one of my internet beekeeping business mentors. She's got some funny ideas at face value to modern beekeepers, but when you examine things she tells you to examine yourself, its suprising what she knows.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Soooo......who is she?I am curious what kind of bee work she does at night.I can barely see well enough in daytime to work a hive!


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

This spring I made up a load of nucs then moved them a few miles.It was dark when I started putting in caged queens.Since it was such a small job I didnt bother to light the smoker.Needless to say,they didnt appreciate my efforts.My hands were getting a bit sore by the time I finished.Sometimes you just have to do beework under less than optimal conditions just to keep up with it.I used to hive packages at night to stop the drifting that happens if the day is sunny.That worked out well.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Mike - this same beekeeper, also produced 100 barrels of honey (that is 66000 lbs. by my calculation) by using brushes to remove the bees from the supers. She also easily loads hives four and five deep supers tall, with only a hand truck.


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2004)

So have we figured out who "SHE" is?


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

I have.


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## beegee (Jun 3, 2003)

When I was helping my commercial beekeeper-friend, we were moving bees at night. I would have to say it was not an enjoyable experience. The bees did not appreciate the annoyance.


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## BWrangler (Aug 14, 2002)

Greetings,

The advantage of working bees at night is most of them are home. It's a good time to move them. From personal experience, its better to move them at 3am than it is at 9pm.

The greatest disadvantage is that most of them are home!. And night work has a whole lot of other disadvantages. The worst one is lack of vision. Put on a veil at night and tripping, dropping and squashing become real problems especially when working in brush or weeds.

Mistakes are not easy to correct. Dropped bees don't reorient and fly home. Dropped hives leaves lots of dropped bees. They crawl and sting any hot, moving, smelly object, ie. the beekeeper.

It's one thing to work a small hive or a swarm trap in the backyard at night. It's another thing to work a big hive in the brush, or yards of big hives of bees at night. 

And traffic accidents are a real possibily at night with a tired, veiled beekeeper driving down the back roads. Yep, the bees continue to crawl around in the truck and make life miserable. Most beekeepers leave the veil on.

Regards
Dennis
Knowing both the beekeeper and her bees. And knowing that her small bees get unhappy and sting at night when disturbed even with oriented combs. Some of them can get pretty unhappy during the daytime too. ;> )

[This message has been edited by topbarguy (edited June 19, 2004).]


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## Daisy (Jul 24, 2003)

I don't work inside the hives after dark. 

They are very agressive at night. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out.

Just place the beam of your flash light on the entrance and see what happens. 

Sure, they can't see in the dark but they can dart out. And if they get on ya, you're stung. 

There is no good reason for working inside a hive after dark. I would not advise it. 

Sheesh!


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## Guest (Jun 20, 2004)

The error here was assuming that the
beekeeper in question is "well respected"
by anyone who has kept bees long enough
to know not to work bees in the dark.









Sure I move hives at night, everyone
does. But I put screens in the entrances
and across the tops of the hives before 
dark, just as "everyone else does".


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## roger eagles (Apr 18, 2004)

We have moved bees only at nite,they wont fly.Experiment.Put a bee in a open room at nite.She will buzz around.Shut the light off,its dark,listen,she will quit flying rite away.Turn lite back on,She will start flying.When transporting a new real heavy hive,less losses when done at nite

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B. roger eagles


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## Daisy (Jul 24, 2003)

sticky supers....

i place them back on immediately after i extract but only during the day when the workforce is away.


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## ox (May 15, 2004)

so who is this person who works bees at night? URL please. Thanks


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## Daisy (Jul 24, 2003)

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Organicbeekeepers/


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## ox (May 15, 2004)

thank you kindly

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the ~ox-{ at www.singingfalls.com


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## Daisy (Jul 24, 2003)

ox, i see you're a homesteader...

what exactly is this?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I'm a wanna bee homesteader.









Been wanting to since the early seventies and that's how I got into bees.


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## ox (May 15, 2004)

It is a way of life. A homesteader is one who has made a lifestyle choice to be weaned as much as possible from modern society and eek out an existance in nature (mainly) for various reasons. We do everything the hard way







Organic gardening, homegrown meat, hand hewn buidings, hand dug wells. Our organic garden is the main source of veggies and of course our bees are for sweets and mead. I trained a pair of oxen years back and used them to skid logs for the timber frame barn I've made. I've only got one ox left now. During our days in Montana (12 years) we lived off the grid using solar panels for a 12 volt system. Very independent sorts we are. Now we're in Umpqua National Forest in SW Oregon

Our particular genre of homesteader also has deep spiritual convictions centered on the bible. We are shepherds/crafters by vocation - raising angora goats, harvesting their mohair, spinning and weaving it into blankets, rugs and other garments. We specialize in naturally colored angora goats which is a relatively new trend. Please look at our web site and you'll see what we do. The link is in my signature.

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the ~ox-{ at www.singingfalls.com


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## ox (May 15, 2004)

Bush = "I'm a wanna bee homesteader.

Been wanting to since the early seventies and that's how I got into bees."

Yes that is when we did it. Dirt poor and ill prepared, newly wed, young and full of hope. (the modern day american peasant) We have little regret. God has been good to us. We have learned and are learning. It is never too late Mr. Bush







Although I must admit, those who opted (in those days) not to do it are retiring soon. One can not retire as a "homesteader". My near neighbor is 87 years old. Last winter he cut, split and stacked twelve chords of Madrone wood. Today he is bailing hay.

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the ~ox-{ at www.singingfalls.com


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## Daisy (Jul 24, 2003)

I understand Ox......

Modern life has become a rat race... On the wheel, runnin yer @@@ off and going no where. 

I went wild crafting a couple of days ago. 

Well actually to be completely truthful, I took the girls to the pasture where our new little filly is until she's brought to the farm where daughter will begin training her.... but we walked a long time till we found the horses... While out there I decided to do some wild crafting. There was this one plant that just seemed to call out to me.. 

I pulled up a handfull. Didn't know what it was... Did some research in one of my handbooks and didn't learn much.... 

But learned quit a bit about it on the internet.

I learned that one of it's names is Prairie Mimosa... And it's being studied here in Salina Kansas... It restores the ground everywhere it grows with nitrogen... The seed are real high in protein, can be used in salads or for cooking etc.. livestock enjoy eating it. I don't think it grows in your part of the US. 

After it was dried, I rolled some up and smoked it. It was a little harsh but overall, not a bad smoke.

Wild crafting is something that homesteaders do... ?

Does your family make your own remedies and such?


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## ox (May 15, 2004)

Mrs. Daisy: Yes, we often resort to what is available around us to deal with needs albeit we do grow a rather large herb garden for various purposes. Some medicenal, some culinary, dyers herbs, aromatics for insect pest control (which the bees seem to love) and not the least a very prosperous crop of bee balm (borage). This time of year the bees are many on the stands of borage, egyptian onions, and lavendar.
My spouse has braught many an animal to safety and health using simple medicenals. On occasion they just don't work and we resort to synthetics. I hope to find a multifaceted solution to the be mite problem.

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the ~ox-{ at www.singingfalls.com


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## Daisy (Jul 24, 2003)

Ox

You state that you're thinking about solutions to combat the bee problems.... Grand!

We have inherited the problems created by mans interventions... we call civilization. LOL

I have seven hives now. I used what is now called IPM for two years to help the colonies become established. This year so far, I've given the colonies nothing in way of pest management. I am experimenting on the addition of trace minerals into a water source this year. Agricultural methods have stripped the land...

In three years since I began keeping bees, I've purchased and replaced one queen. She was consequently and quickly put out of the colony as I found her either dead or fainted on the top of the frames of the top super... days later. They wanted a queen of their own chosing I suppose, and the colony wintered well. I had no losses come spring this year. Only what appeared to be a sterile queen in one hive. But after combining and splitting weeks ago, that group is a number again. 

I form my own ideas as to what is going on or what to do to intervene with a hive... I decided to not intervene at all this year as I feel my hives are pretty well established after three years. In other words, the ones that succumb to mites etc. will succumb and I'll work with any that survive, if any survive at all. 

My colonies interact with local feral colonies that I decided to leave alone. At first thought, I was going to find the feral colony and bring them to my bee yard, but decided that this action would probably hurt my operation. The ferals seem to have overcome the mite problems. Maybe their genes have assisted my colonies to cope and survive with mites.... I'll know more by next spring.

I look forward to reading about what you do to help your bees.


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## Scot Mc Pherson (Oct 12, 2001)

The first misconpception is that this beekeeper is recommending beekeeping at night. She isn't. She is just saying that it can be just as enjoyable as working the bees during the day.

I work my bees in the afternoon now, having been convinced the bees can handle the temperature issues with working top bar hives during the afternoon sun. I prefer to work mine between 1pm and 3:30 pm now. Before I would work them in the morning before the sun waws beating heavily on the top bars.

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Scot Mc Pherson
Foundationless Small Cell Top Bar Hives
BeeWiki: <A HREF="http://linuxfromscratch.org/~scot/beewiki/" TARGET=_blank>
http://linuxfromscratch.org/~scot/beewiki/</A>
Pics:
http://linuxfromscratch.org/~scot/pics/bees/


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## Daisy (Jul 24, 2003)

I read the posts too. 

I didn't read where she specifically recommends working in hives at night. Maybe she could clarify.....

I've had a difficult time understanding her messages in the past.


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## BWrangler (Aug 14, 2002)

Greetings,

The beekeeper in question lives in a very unique environment. It can get hotter than 120 degrees there . And with very little ground cover in the desert, I bet the ground reflects lots of heat during the summer.

Maybe working bees at night could have it's advantages. Maybe, like the desert creatures there, smart beekeepers only come out during the twilight hours:> ).

When I visited her operation during March, it was so hot it almost fried my poor winter adapted Wyoming brain. I just can't imagine what it's like at the end of July. 

Regards
Dennis
Thinking respect is a gift that's given, but if the truth were known none would deserve.

[This message has been edited by topbarguy (edited June 22, 2004).]


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

While I would never adopt her methods for our bees,I believe she is a smart woman and is innovating methods that deal with desert honey production.So while I would never attempt much night work here,I have to figure she knows what shes doing.


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## Daisy (Jul 24, 2003)

It be interesting to know what lives in the desert that supplies pollen and nectar, the bees use to create the record breaking honey production she had last year.


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## ox (May 15, 2004)

This brings to mind the entire arena of adaptation of a species to a given environment. There is no doubt in my mind that there is a wonderful capacity in creatures to go through genetic changes through a natural selective process. Any intervention on my part with this process has centered on different factors. 
Some are:
1. Assistance to compensate for the initial radical change in environment. This usually is a process of several years of limited proping up of the critter so that it's vulnerability to new conditions doesn't get it too far down.
2. A result of #1 is that several generations of offspring are born with progressively greater ability to handle the new set of conditions.
3. Selectively culling the ones that just "don't cut it" and replacing them out of #2 stock.
4. Adding stock that for one reason or another are further along in hardiness than the current pool. This is a tricky call. I've seen excellent newly added stock work in the reverse of "hybrid vigor" and hybrid weakness appears.

On several occasions I have tried to circumvent this process with a hard "cold turkey" approach with little success. 'course I'm talking mammals here and bees may be another world. I have a hunch the same principles apply. 
In the case of the desert night bee keeper, it may be the perfect ticket to work the bees in the cool of the night.

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the ~ox-{ at www.singingfalls.com


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## Daisy (Jul 24, 2003)

Ox.....

Amen Brother!


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