# Gentlest bees



## russbee (Mar 6, 2007)

Carniolans are a favorite of mine. I kept 8 hives of them on a small city lot for years with no problems. these were gentle and good producers. 
Also I mentored a new beekeeper this past summer who had italians from wilibanks apiary. They were well tempered and not hard to work either. My personal choice is Carniolans. As far as producers I raise my own queens now, I would check out Strachan apiary for Carniolan's.


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## betrbekepn (Aug 7, 2006)

*Gentle Bees*

_*Gentle Bees*_

_*Russians http://www.geocities.com/fatbeeman/?200524*_

_*New World Carniolans http://www.honeyrunapiaries.com/queens.phtml*_


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## kenpkr (Apr 6, 2004)

I agree with the post about the Carniolans be gentle. I've had good experience with them. Having said that, it's also important to remember that any colonies' temperament is going to be affected by outside factors, i.e.- weather- bees can be cranky when its cloudy or windy, pests like skunks can keep a hive aggravated, etc. But I'm like you, Chief, I can't tolerate mean bees because I keep them in a suburban backyard with my family outside alot. If a hive gets mean for no other obvious reason, that queen gets replaced.


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## Jesse (May 15, 2006)

I haven't had any personal experience with them, but I hear that Cordovans are very gentle.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I hear that Cordovans are very gentle.

I've had some that were. I've had some that were not.

I'd say that's true of very breed. The important thing is to not put up with them if they are not. Requeen.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesrequeeninghot.htm


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## Grant (Jun 12, 2004)

Temperment in the worker bees is a genetic factor of the drones that mated with the queen. This is one the reasons why we feel a little leery of queens mated in areas of AHB.

That said, I had a colony of the meanest bees I ever worked with. The colony originated that year from a southern package producer. It was mid-season and I wanted to requeen the colony. They were almost impossible to work with. 

No other queens were available by mail order so I found that old queen and simply squished her. The colony requeened itself with an emergency cell, the new queen mated with my local drones and the colony settled down by the end of the season. The following spring they were a piece of the proverbial cake to work with.

Of course, this was but one colony, but hardly anyone locally believes my situation. They are all convinced that mean bees beget mean bees.

Grant
Jackson, MO


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## Keith Benson (Feb 17, 2003)

"Of course, this was but one colony, but hardly anyone locally believes my situation. They are all convinced that mean bees beget mean bees"

Very mean bees are at one end of the behaviour spectrum, makes perfect sense that unless you are selecting for aggression in a population, that requeening should move the behaviour towards the average, which in this case would be nicer bee. If you do the same in an unusually gentle colony, they will most likely wind up a little less gentle. Note the use of the phrase "most likely".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_toward_the_mean

Keith


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## Korny's Korner (Mar 25, 2007)

caucasians that I use to get from York (gone but not forgotten) were always gentle. Fun time in beekeeping so easy to work with, made perfect cone honey. but did not winter well. 

Korny


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## Keith Benson (Feb 17, 2003)

Speaking of lines of bees that seem unavailable, I could swear I recently saw an ad for either starline or midnight bees in one of the mags. I don't have it here to verify though. I had midnights years ago. Very very gentle.

Keith


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>No other queens were available by mail order so I found that old queen and simply squished her. The colony requeened itself with an emergency cell, the new queen mated with my local drones and the colony settled down by the end of the season. The following spring they were a piece of the proverbial cake to work with.

I have done similar things when the queen had some genetics that I didn't want to lose with the same results. A very nice hive from her daughter.


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## Aspera (Aug 1, 2005)

The gentlest queens that I have ever encountered were cordevan Italians mated to the same. This was especially remarkable to me give the large size of the brood nest and the huge number of bees that the colony had. The golden workers were quite attractive, and I would not fault any non-commercial keeper for buying them on that basis alone.


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## chief (Apr 19, 2005)

Well I just ordered two New World Carniolans and two Minnesota Hygienic Queens from Olivarez Honey Bees. I will use them to requeen and make splits. The distributor that I will get them from says he really likes the Minnesota Hygienics because they are easy to work and do well in our climate. I have also read that the New World Carniolans are really easy to. I guess I’ll find out! 

I have heard that cordovans are usually really gentle. Where can you get them where they are mated with cordovan drones for that all cordovan look?


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## Aspera (Aug 1, 2005)

Koehnens sells cordovans, I think one or more of the Hawian breeders does and Glenn apiaries also has a line of AI'ed breeders in you want purebred genetics. I have found the Minn hygienics tend toward aggression, but mine were crossed with SMR stock. Can't speak about NWC, because the only time I tried these they were superceded almost immediately. Many people on this web site say that they are gentle to a fault.


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## chief (Apr 19, 2005)

That’s what I want . . . gentle to a fault. I have the rest of my bees (mostly homemade mutts) that can be as hot as they want but I want "fun" bees in my backyard. I know that some say the more defensive bees are better with the mites, produce more, and the like but I am going strictly for gentleness this time around. Thanks for the references.


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## Chrissy Shaw (Nov 21, 2006)

*Breeds and Lines within breeds can vary*

Hi Chief,

There are the notorious breeds ofcourse, but since to breed requires a mating genetic base that will sustain a line, there can be different contributions to a queen and her workers from week to week, from season to season often from the same breeder. Environmental factors play heavy on a given colonies defensive natures. Colonies in shade all day long are very likely to be colonies that are testy. So, as one sets up a back yard bee yard, the first consideration is what will be the conditions the bees find themselves in.

Tri-cities is a different story than Auburn is. In the Tri-cities i would first be concerned that the bees had afternoon shade from May until September or later. In Auburn, only a few days on average would there be much call for shade. Full shade in western Washington is a bad deal for gentle bees. Drought can cause the field bees to be unbusy, even in gentle lines full colonies of field bees, often hauling water or robbing can bring out a nasty bee from a gentle line. That would be Tri-Cities at some point i would imagine. On the west side that would be September. Those factors are the first issue in a calm beeyard.

If the bees are free from other troubles, skunks, yellowjacket attacks, bald faced hornet attacks, then it narrows down to breed and line. The suggestions here are personal reports and worthy of exploration. A bee line that is not fun, will not be fun when others are okay. Sometimes moving a colony will solve the problem, but if a better location still does not work and you are not trying to propagate a trait in breeding from the line, the queen can be removed and a quicker requeen solution is had by dividing the larger colony into two new nucs. This allows the defensive behavior to change almost as soon as the new queen is released. Part of defense in workers is a response to queen signals, assumed to be from chemicals the queen makes, so the smaller units use the bees who once chased you to develop a new colony under a queen of calmer substance overall. 

I wish you success in your hunt for the right line for you.

Chrissy


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

I would 2nd Aspera's reccommendation. The bright yellow Cordovans we got from Hawaiin Queen were by far the gentlest and prettiest bees I've ever seen. They layed considerably more brood than any others as well which worked well until they wouldn't stop in November.


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

Remember other traits when selecting. I tried NWC in Texas and didn't have good results. Gentle? Yes, but also prone to getting robbed out. They shut down brood production when there isn't a flow, all summer in Texas. The small late summer clusters didn't have a chance around the natives and my other hives.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

The problem with these kinds of discussions is that a hive of Italians compared to a hive of Italians can vary more than a hive of Italians compared to a hive of Carniolans. In other words, there is more difference from hive to hive than from race to race.


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

Probably so, but I re-queened 6 out of 12. Out of the 6, none of the queens lasted the year. They did leave some genetics behind and they did gentle the overall apiary. I just don't have that problem with the mutts.


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## thomas (Apr 23, 2006)

*Will the young queen from a gentle hive be the same*

Howdy 

I was reading and i have to ask this if i have a young queen that was raised from a gentle hive would her offspring be like the others gentle or would they be mean. The hive that swarmed the old queen was great at laying and her young queens that i got rid of were huge but the hive is genlte will her young daughters offspring be genlte and would she be a great layer like her mom. I have plenty of drones in all my hives and they all were out in full force today so there are plenty of drones for mating.

Tom


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I was reading and i have to ask this if i have a young queen that was raised from a gentle hive would her offspring be like the others gentle or would they be mean.

Sometimes. The drones contribute at LEAST half of their demeanor.


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## Robert Hawkins (May 27, 2005)

Chief,

Have you checked out those videos of the lady beekeeping in Germany? Shorts, t-shirt, no veil. Now Dems some gentle bees. Also the same thing on FB's website. He has Russians and Italians. She has the black Germans. I think it's more the management style than it is the breed. Just don't try AHB's.

Hit the chatroom at night. Some guys pinch the queen on the third sting. Seriously, they mark the hive on one and two. Sometimes it doesn't work and you'll have to just re-queen from another hive. It can be done. Just watch those German videos.

Hawk


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## Chrissy Shaw (Nov 21, 2006)

*Gentle one day*

Hi folks,

When i was commercial beekeeping for a big producer, we really could have gone without or veils during the warm days of the honeyflow. The reason we didn't is i ran the truck and my partner answered to me. Bees in the nose, bees in the ears and bees near the eyes, or venom in the eyes is just not a good thing. Gentle bees are arrived at with genetics AND environment. Even in the best bees there can be bad days. It just IMO, is not worth testing my sensitive facial organs to see if today is a good day. 

Another possible problem is that some child could see you out in the bees and see you need no special clothes and then assume he/she can do the same. 

I will also say, that i work brood nests with gloves on always. If encounter AFB, those gloves are on their way out with the colony. If you have ever done a hand washing test with the stain stuff, you will understand my respect for a spore that can withstand five thousand degrees and remain viable for at least seventy-five years. New gloves cost less than new colonies. A few spare pairs are a good thing to have.

All that said, yes calm and gentle bees are great to have and indeed important to try and keep, but bees do sting and there are no medals for errors or just a bad day for bee or keeper. 

Chrissy


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

Like mr benson suggested some of the old hybrid lines were extremely gentle. at one time we were running a group of midnights next to a most typical italian group of bees and the midnights were extemely easy to work. the two did brood up at very different rates which made a true apple to apple comparison difficult.


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## magnet-man (Jul 10, 2004)

Cordovans are neither a breed nor a hybrid. Think of them as blond hair bees, actually red. Sue Colby developed a cordovan NWC for a researcher in Kansas a few years back. They had a copper color and were really cool looking. The gene that produces the effect is recessive and can be inserted into any race of bees in two generations. The gene turns the black portion of the stripe to a redish color. The really yellow cordovans are breed with semen from drones that don't have a very little black banding. I have one queen that is producing cordovans drones.

NWC are very gentle but they are a more northern race and do shut down if there is no nectar flow like Ross said. This can be a good and bad thing because you don’t need to feed as much during a dearth. They go into winter with a very small cluster and do fine. I usually go though winter with several nucs with a two frames of bees. Those nucs of course are not great performs next spring. 

If you are looking for something fun in your backyard in Louisiana, NWC might be worth trying. Get your queens from Tim at Honey Run Apiaries. A lot of the queens he sells are F1 queens from his NWC breeders from Sue Cobey. They are very gentle. 
http://www.honeyrunapiaries.com/queens.phtml


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## summersetretrievers (Mar 4, 2006)

I checked their website here is what is posted.
To Our Customers:

By now I’m sure that nearly everyone has heard of the significant and widespread losses in many States that has been named Colony Collapse Disorder. Losses throughout our state of Ohio have been running 50%-80%. Unfortunately our apiaries and other beekeepers near us have not been an exception. Most hives were still alive up until February’s cold spell but it proved to be too much for many of them. Inspections of the remaining hives showed many of the remaining 45% were weaker than normal and while most, but not all, of the remaining hives look like they will survive, they won’t be strong enough or numerous enough to populate enough mating nucs.

Thus I regret to inform you that I won’t be able to raise queens for sale this year. I have agonized over this decision and hate disappointing my customers, but financially we can’t afford to buy enough full colonies to make up for the losses and really don’t want to pollute our stock with outside drones. On the positive side, nearly all my Instrumentally Inseminated breeder queens survived so I have a good basis to rebuild on. So I will spend this year rebuilding from the survivor stock. 

I’m sorry for the inconvenience and hope you and your bees are well, and wish you a good 2007 season. I hope we can serve you in 2008. - Tim, Honey Run Apiaries


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## magnet-man (Jul 10, 2004)

That is a bummer.


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