# using alcohol to treat for moths?



## mlanden (Jun 19, 2016)

I lately checked a batch of plastic/wax-foundation frames -- from last year's disaster, wrapped in a plastic bag -- in a storage bldg. and found .... lots of the bag rotted (eaten?) away, and wax moths within.  The foundations were almost dust-like. I read a while back that the moths can actually *eat through* plastic with no problem.

SO .... can I place the frames/moths into a Styrofoam box, slosh in a little ETOH/rubbing alcohol, and seal the box for days/weeks to kill the moths?

I froze the frames last year to kill all the wax- and SHB-maggots, but it's harvest time now, and there's no space in the freezers for frames.

Any ideas on this or any alternatives? Thx for any feedback ....


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

Do a search. Preventing max moth is a well-trodden path. No need to re-invent the wheel on this.


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## mlanden (Jun 19, 2016)

shinbone said:


> Do a search. Preventing max moth is a well-trodden path. No need to re-invent the wheel on this.


OK -- I get it, BUT .... the only treatments I've ever seen in the lit is Bt a. (for larvae) and freezing the frames. As I stated in my thread, I don't have the freezing option, and so far am not seeing any larvae. Don't recall seeing any other options/ideas/theories .....

Mitch


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

Sorry you are not getting more responses to your question. My guess is that no one has done research into killing moths using alcohol, so no one knows the answer to your question.

As you know, the standard procedure is to kill any wax moth eggs by freezing, then putting the damaged frames into a well-populated, healthy hive and let the bees clean up the mess. Usually, this is so easy to do that no one bothers with anything else, hence, no info on treating using alcohol.

Wax moth can also be killed using CO2, but the CO2 concentration has to be held pretty high for a long period of time to get a good egg kill, so it is impractical for most beeks. If you don't have too many frames, maybe you could seal them into a 50 gal plastic bag with a few pounds of dry ice. That might create a high CO2 environment sufficient to kill eggs and larvae?


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

The frames inside a plastic bag will not work. Inside the food grade plastic wrap will
not work either. So the only option is to buy another bigger used chest freezer from CL or
the local used appliance store. 
Here is my plan to see if it will work or not. Get the long plastic storage totes from Walmart or Costco. After the frames are
frozen take them out and put in the tote to fill it up. Then put the lid on and use the silver duct tape
to seal the perimeter of the gap. You will have an air tight sealed container to store in a room temp. area. And the
wax moth eggs you cannot see it with the naked eyes. Somehow they always find a way to get to the comb if not 
sealed tight. 
I've froze the comb before inside the food grade wrap. Afraid that the wax moth will get to them too. So your post reminded me to get the big plastic totes for 50 frames tomorrow. And I got a lots of the silver duct tapes too.


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## Eikel (Mar 12, 2014)

I'm curious on this, I've heard of moth larvae being able to eat plastic but never heard of moths eating their way into a bag. Is the eaten part of the bag at the bottom where an egg may have survived freezing and started the reproductive cycles inside the bag with larvae dropping to the bottom or at the bag opening or random spots with moths trying to get in? I've used the freeze, warm to room temp and store in a trash bag process without a problem. I guess I'm looking for the weak link in the process.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

beepro said:


> The frames inside a plastic bag will not work.


Why not?


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

You see over here we have 3 different species of wax moths. They are all destructive to the comb. The large moth is
more destructive than the little specie. Somehow they will bore a hole to get inside the bag over time. If I haven't check on the stored frames then the entire frame and many others will be lost. You need an air tight environment at room temp. to stop the worms from growing inside. You also need to freeze the comb before putting them in storage to kill the eggs. Seems like the eggs are ever present just waiting for the right environment to hatch. Through the food grade plastic wrap I've seen
worm cocoon pierced through the thin plastic somehow. So my conclusion is that inside a plastic bag it may not protect
the comb as thought. Freezing them and then put inside a large tote with a tape to seal off the seam will work. And it would not hurt to double wrap the comb with the food grade plastic film also.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Once the combs are destroyed there is nothing to be done. If it's plastic foundation, shake off the webs. If they are stuck (unlikely if they ate all the comb...) then scrape it off. If you have cocoons on wood, scrape them off. The alcohol will not accomplish anything. Freezing is best if you have live larvae, but if you can't freeze and they have already eaten the comb, I wouldn't worry about it.

There are two kinds of wax moths. Galleria mellonella (greater wax moths) and Achroia grisella (lesser wax moths). I'm not aware of any others.


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

My moth prevention routine seems to be working.
Pull supers and extract within 2 days. (no more)
Next freeze the wet supers for 2 days.
Then put the wet frozen supers out for bees to clean up.
Stick back on hives or freeze them again for two days then store.

If you're storing them stack five or six supers. Place a sheet of writing paper on top of the top frames in the top box.
Put a couple tablespoons of paradichlorobenzene (paramoth) on the paper then cover the stack with an outer cover.
Finally tape up all the seems and any vent holes with packing tape. 
My barn-size shed is mousy and so far this method keeps both moths and mice out of the supers.
Good luck.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

If I get wax moth, I go in the house and drink a case of beer for treatment.
Sorry, I couldn't help myself.

One guy from ukrane posted a vidio where he sprinkles the frames with wood ash and hung them open air in a shed. He got a little fluff for bt being the premium treatment but if I ever get ahead on drawn comb, I may try it cause I always have lots of ash and the ideal of not buying anything apeals to me. I think I might like the ash better then I would like haveing to store them closed in some fassion with moth balls.

I have never tried it but you ask and so I repeat something that I did see, I put no merrit for or against it.
Cheers
gww


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

"Next freeze the wet supers for 2 days.
Then put the wet frozen supers out for bees to clean up."

What is the point of freezing 2 time? Extract and then put the wet supers back on to be clean up.
Then freeze the frames after they are clean one time through. I like the idea of sealing them inside
a box. I have plenty of assembled new nuc boxes for that. The moving cardboard boxes can be use for the top and
bottom cover on the boxes. Can be reuse the next season. Follow the 3 r's. Then use tapes to seal it off. Wood ash or moth balls I would not use them. If you use the aluminum tapes then they can be reuse the next season too. No need to
waste more shipping tapes. I always stride to improve on things here.


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## mlanden (Jun 19, 2016)

shinbone said:


> Wax moth can also be killed using CO2, but the CO2 concentration has to be held pretty high for a long period of time to get a good egg kill, so it is impractical for most beeks. If you don't have too many frames, maybe you could seal them into a 50 gal plastic bag with a few pounds of dry ice. That might create a high CO2 environment sufficient to kill eggs and larvae?


Wow, Shin -- that sounds like a really cool (no pun intended) concept. I like it.

As it turns out, I used the box with added ETOH. As far as I can tell, nothing moth-related in the box survived the experiment. 

having trouble typing; more later .......


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## mlanden (Jun 19, 2016)

Eikel said:


> I'm curious on this, I've heard of moth larvae being able to eat plastic but never heard of moths eating their way into a bag. Is the eaten part of the bag at the bottom where an egg may have survived freezing and started the reproductive cycles inside the bag with larvae dropping to the bottom or at the bag opening or random spots with moths trying to get in? I've used the freeze, warm to room temp and store in a trash bag process without a problem. I guess I'm looking for the weak link in the process.


Hi -- the bags looked pretty much rotted away all over; no "incised" openings anywhere. I used moth balls last fall for storage. I wonder -- maybe those chemicals resulted in rotting the plastic? No idea .....


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

What is the effect on the honey or cap broods if those frames are 
treated with alcohol? I mean are they safe for Spring honey and the cap broods?


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## tech.35058 (Jul 29, 2013)

gww said:


> If I get wax moth, I go in the house and drink a case of beer for treatment.
> Sorry, I couldn't help myself.
> 
> One guy from ukrane posted a vidio where he sprinkles the frames with wood ash and hung them open air in a shed. He got a little fluff for bt being the premium treatment but if I ever get ahead on drawn comb, I may try it cause I always have lots of ash and the ideal of not buying anything apeals to me. I think I might like the ash better then I would like haveing to store them closed in some fassion with moth balls.
> ...


I read about the wood ash thing too, but since I have some BT that's what I am about to use. I wonder if the yellow jackets will nock out the wax moths ?
Exposing the frames to sunlight is also a moth deterent.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

tech
I agree with your decision and the guy that posted it got a little guff. I did like the one thing he mentioned that bt probly does not do. He said it also kept the rodents off of it cause they did not like the ash dust. Mice are such dirty creatures that I doubt it works but if I ever get enough comb, which I am starved for now, that I have to store it, I may still try the ash just for grins.
Cheers
gww


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

The ash will make the comb all dirty since it will take lots of coverage to keep the 
wax moths out. Another concern is how the ash will affect the cap broods if they don't dry out the 
larvae first. Washing the comb will be another time consuming chore by itself. I rather put oa powder on the 
clean comb instead just for a little experiment.


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