# make your own nicot setup?



## beefarmer (May 2, 2010)

check out the fatbeeman videos, he makes his own wax cups, or check the Hopkins method of queen raising of which I can't wait to try this summer.


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## rookie2531 (Jul 28, 2014)

beefarmer said:


> check out the fatbeeman videos, he makes his own wax cups, or check the Hopkins method of queen raising of which I can't wait to try this summer.


I want the queen to lay in those cups. Fat been man grafts with those cups.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...ls-Without-Grafting&highlight=cut+cell+method Have a look here.

Oldtimer


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## rookie2531 (Jul 28, 2014)

crofter said:


> http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...ls-Without-Grafting&highlight=cut+cell+method Have a look here.
> 
> Oldtimer


This is a lot closer to what I want, but I am not sure when it comes time to cut those cells off, if I will harm them. Do they heat a knife to make the cut smooth? I read that the queens are very subseptable to harm during the time to seperate them and was considering just caging them before they hatch so one doesn't kill them all and doing an introduction method after they hatch. I could try this, but I really want to get it right my first try.


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## jbraun (Nov 13, 2013)

I'm also going to venture into queen rearing this year. I'm only up to 7 hive now. We'll see how many make it to spring. Any way I'd like to increase more before I start to graft. With all of the great info from Oldtimer I feel pretty comfortable about my chances for success with the cut cell method. Maybe after that I can move into grafting. So much info from those who went before us it makes it hard to chose.

Good luck on your efforts this coming season rookie. By the way, are you going to have to change your title soon rookie?


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

I was thinking on the same path on designing a non-grafting system.
Perhaps you could help me out on my system which is half-way done.
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?305246-all-in-one-queen-cells-cast-in-wax

All I need to do now is to cut the frame and pour the plastic plaster to form a mold for the queen to lay in.
What is your workable idea?


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

Oldtimer's fantastic thread is his version of Jay Smith / Henry Alley's method, aka Cut Cell method. 

There are other systems that the queen actually lays the eggs in the cells. The Miller method, Jenter method, the Hopkins method, Mel Disselkoen's MDA splitter method, the Punch-cell method, and others all do this. Amos Root suggested cutting out a worker cell and placing it in a natural queen cell cup.

These methods generally make superior queens to those of the Doolittle method (grafting) for those of us not yet super-skilled at grafting larvae into queen cell cups.

I make wax queen cell cups with a forming stick and a sheet metal double boiler. You can see this setup in Dr. Harry H. Laidlaw's book, Contemporary Queen Rearing, available through Dadant and Sons.

I attach the QC's to golf tees with molten wax. The tees go into holes drilled in the queen frame bars, and are then pegged with very small brads (I keep them numbered so they go back in the same holes). The golf tees are great for planting QC's into combs in the mating nuclei, and make it easy for candling, too.

I mostly use this for grafting, but if you could make the box and lock the queen onto it with excluder wire for the attendant workers to go through, she would probably lay in them. The challenge is sizing the outside of the wax cell cups so that they fit in the holes in the box, yet are easily removed. The Jenter Box is only about 90 dollars, available through Blue Sky Bee Supply, money well-spent if you are just starting - you'll get benefit of it for years to come.


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

The Nicot is too expensive? It has 110 cups, so what would be reasonable, maybe 80 queens at a time? Sell 5, or maybe 6 queens to pay for the initial setup? If graftless queen rearing is what your after, buy the Nicot. It has the perfect setup for emerging virgin queens into a roller cage, which seems to be what you are after?

Why are you thinking of a graftless system? The grafting is the easy part, the cell starter/finisher/builder is the hard part, and the mating nucs. And these are needed even in a graftless system. Another thought to consider before making a jump into any system, how many queens do you want at a time? or throughout the year?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Get some number five hardware cloth and make a push-in cage like this:
http://www.bushfarms.com/images/QueenConfinement5.jpg

Do the hopkins method or betterqueens method and you won't need to graft. Or Alley, or Miller...

All of these are graftless:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beeshopkinsmethod.htm
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesbetterqueenscondensed.htm
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesalleymethod.htm
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesmillermethod.htm
http://www.bushfarms.com/beeshopkins1886.htm
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesafewgoodqueens.htm


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## rookie2531 (Jul 28, 2014)

beefarmer said:


> check out the fatbeeman videos, he makes his own wax cups, or check the Hopkins method of queen raising of which I can't wait to try this summer.


Thanks Bee farmer, I don't know how I missed the Hopkins method. I think I will try it. 

And thanks to everyone else who also replied, and for your valuable info there Mike, Awesome.

Thanks again, loving bee source and all who are members.


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## pmshoney (Dec 30, 2014)

I love the nicot system. I graft into these cups and use the frame mounting fixtures all of this stuff fits together nicely JZBZ should take notes and make there stuff more like this the hair curlers work well and if someone don't want to graft the grid box works well too for the $ spent you can raise your replacement queens for the yr. grafting is faster and easier to get hatch dates where you want them. If you don't need to be on an exact date to meet customer demands like I do then this grid box would work well I have used it and made nice queens with it. I would recommend trying it but just use 10 of the cups if your a small bee keeper it takes a big hive to finish 50-100 cells even I only finish 30-40 cells in a finisher hive they just do a better job of caring for the cells. as far as building your own system you can but you time would be better spent caring for your bees or using this system or even learning grafting you can buy Brown Cell Cups 110 ct $5.95 and Brown Cell Fixtures 10 ct $5.95 Yellow Cell Cup Holders 10 ct $3.90 and Hair Roller Cages 10 ct $5.95 for about what most spend at a fast food joint for one families meal and this make 10 queens if you graft the cups and you only get 4 to take that's 4 queens easily worth $20 each that's $80 and even if you bought the Cell Grid Only for $54.95 or Complete Queen Rearing Kit that comes with 10 each of everything and 110 cups for $75.95 if you don't want to learn to graft you make 4 queens from it and you broke even I have spent hundreds of $ on grafting cup setup that did work but not well compared to the nicot setup its so much bang for you buck you cant build anything as cheap even with all the videos I have watched and copied non of the systems I have build in the past work as well and even when I used the jzbz stuff it don't work as well and cost is way more for cups with the jzbz setup. I still use jzbz for selling queen cells because its hard to ship cells with the nicot cups it takes us longer to graft and we have less success with jzbz cups and the protectors are less than great cells almost never fit with nicot Hair Roller Cages they go right on over cells nice for this reason I prefer to sell virgin queens over cells its just way easier. I do understand your want to save $ but your going to spend more $ trying to save $ just like I did tell I went out and bought the nicot sys. I gave away to a friend of mine all my old stuff for queen rearing then he came to work with me for a sat. the next time I saw him he brought all that old stuff back to me and said after seeing it in action I just bought the system. so the box of old stuff sat around for 3 yrs. tell one day I was cleaning and tossed it in the trash hundreds of $ and countless hrs. tossed out with the trash the best thing I ever did lol. no more pain and suffering with queens that don't meet the mark and all the other frustrations. Again this is my experience and yes you can make queens cutting comb and other things making your own cups but the nicot system works so well ask for it for your birthday if you don't want to buy it lol but its worth every penny and more. I had a 7 yr. old kid that was working with me who all by himself with me telling him what days to do what per the instruction sheet made 40 queens with the grid box as I grafted 40 and I could not tell the difference in the queens in the end.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>the hair curlers work well

Yes. When I use the hair curler cages, I end up using the hair curler cages from Nicot for my Jenter. They are much larger and I like them a lot better. I end up using the hair curler cages from my Jenter on the JZBZ cages, although they are not tight, I use another strip of wood across the bottom of the cages with rubber bands to hold it up and it holds the cages on.


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## thewhiterhino (Oct 5, 2014)

I have not seen any reference to the OTS method.
http://www.mdasplitter.com/index.php


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