# Sorry for the long post but what is going on here?



## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

Hope someone comes up with a reply. I'd worry about that queen, and probably pull her out, back into her original nuc. 

Could you have a laying worker so they are not accepting the queen but have not gotten around to killing her yet?


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## Litsinger (Jun 14, 2018)

Deen:

I read your post a few times to make sure I understood what you are describing- let me make sure I have the gist correct:

1. You hived a swarm that you initially suspected was queenless due to lack of eggs after approximately two weeks following being hived.

2. In response, you combined the swarm with a known queenright nuc.

3. 10 days later you return to find eggs and nectar inbound and your nuc queen isolated with a few dozen bees.

While I can't be certain, based on the assumptions above I might assume that the swarm might have contained one or more virgin queens in it and the lack of eggs you saw at the two week mark was simply a reflection of the lack of drawn comb, the paucity of their stored resources and/or the need for the queen to get mated and up-to-speed.

Then, when you introduced the nuc, the colonies have been working to consolidate and determining which queen will remain. I combined a nuc with a queenless colony earlier this year and I was surprised that it took several days for things to get back to 'normal', with the two colonies remaining somewhat segregated for a time. I suspect this is more common if the colonies being combined are relatively weak.

I have hived cast swarms with multiple queens before, and when you dump the bees in the box, the two (or more) queens will often have a couple dozen attendants who will confine the queens (even in the chaotic process of moving down between the combs) presumably to sort things out once they are able to get established.

Just offering a possibility- the more I work with bees and observe their behavior, the less confident I am that I know what is going on!


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

I would say that most likely you have another queen in there in the top. Swarms sometimes have more than one queen in them. They may have swarmed again, out of the boxes you gave them when you were away for that period of time, and left a virgin queen behind. You added a queen, she moved to the bottom to hide out from the virgin. The virgin mated and is now just starting to lay. Keep in mind that this is all total conjecture, but it is a scenario that makes a little sense so it could be. It may not be. It could be you have laying workers starting in the top. OR it could be something else entirely. You are going to have to keep checking back and see what develops. 

I think I myself may have just removed that marked queen and made up a nuc for her, as you have eggs in the top that could be made into a queen if there is not one already there. That is, so long as the eggs you saw are not drone eggs. You could also have added a known good frame of eggs in the top to make sure. See? could be a lot of things, keep checking back and see what you see... Good luck!


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

Ah, I see that Litsinger replied while I was typing mine out.


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## Deens Bees (Feb 11, 2021)

Well it’s not raining this morning but it’s 49F. I’ll go through it around 10am and hopefully she is still being protected and I can pull her. I thought about laying workers but the few eggs I spotted were on end and no multiples. It’s been a bad year. I’m getting about 10% of my virgins returning to castles and none of my splits in early May succeeded in requeening. Not usually an issue here (SW Indiana).
I’ll post my findings.


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## Deens Bees (Feb 11, 2021)

UPDATE. It was 85F yesterday. It was 50F when I started this morning. I went into the hive again this morning and went straight to the bottom box. The small group the queen was with yesterday was no longer in the corner. I searched the ground in front of the hive expecting to find her dead but nothing. I started looking in the next box up and there she was. Walking amongst the hoard like she owned the place. The cool air got everyone moving so I watched her walk the entire length of the frame, cross to the other side and make the trip all the way around. She is traveling with a normal entourage like yesterday didn't happen. I went ahead through the that box as well as the supers looking for a rouge queen and didn't find anything odd. I went ahead and installed a QE above the bottom box, then a shim with a small entrance so the drones upstairs could get out. The configuration now is the bottom box has fresh drawn comb covered lightly with bees (and the queen) then above the QE is all the stores and maybe a quarter frame of capped worker brood and a few dozen eggs and young larvae along with a few capped drone at the edges (I'm one of those fools who is fascinated with drones and doesn't cull them) and just enough bees to cover them then a super of almost capped honey that I hope to remove this week if summer comes back. Right now its 51, overcast and windy so I'm leaving everybody alone for a bit.
Thanks all for the input. Forums with folks that offer advice without condemnation are getting hard to find.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

One thing you might watch for is queen cells above the excluder.


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## Deens Bees (Feb 11, 2021)

AR1 said:


> One thing you might watch for is queen cells above the excluder.


O I'm not satisfied yet. I'll be keeping a close eye once this crazy weather breaks. It was 96 just 5 days ago. Had to put long sleeves under my mesh jacket this morning.

Thanks


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

With an entrance, and eggs both above the excluder, I'd expect some queen cells to be started up there. They may not, but then again they may. Sounds like it's going to be great. Who knows for sure why she was on the bottom, but she seems to be doing fine now.


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## Deens Bees (Feb 11, 2021)

I hope so. I need to requeen a couple nucs. I think that drop in temps forced her off the bottom. Cold weather brings everyone together.


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