# Honey super on one brood box?



## aidah (May 29, 2007)

Any input on putting a honey super on one deep brood nest instead of the standard two deep? I heard that you can put a honey super on only one brood box. What are the pros and cons of that? I think in this case a queen excluder is necessary.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Many honey producers do that. Then they allow the bees to use the lesser quality honey later in the season and the fall to build up the secong box to overwinter.
Its really a good way to get honey from packages and nucs. 

I know a few who suppress all the bees into one box early in the spring to get early maple and apple blossom honey.

Its really an artform that has been forgotten by many.


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## Beekeeper1958 (Sep 25, 2006)

That's the way I do it for my comb honey.
I get the 1st flow then the 2nd body goes on for the bees to load up for themselves for winter.


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## aidah (May 29, 2007)

Is there any bee health reasons why this is not good? Do hives with two Brood boxes produce more honey? Compared to single box broods?


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## aidah (May 29, 2007)

I was born in 1957.


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## riverrat (Jun 3, 2006)

one thing you have to be careful of when crowding down bees is it may encourage swarming


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## aidah (May 29, 2007)

Why don't more keeps use this method?


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## Panhandle Bee man (Oct 22, 2003)

Why don't more keeps use this method?

More work, in a single brood box in a Southern Climate you need to pull frames that the bees fill with honey, and extract them, otherwise the hive will be come overcrowded and then will want to swarm.

Is there any bee health reasons why this is not good? Do hives with two Brood boxes produce more honey? Compared to single box broods?

I think that this is a regional/local issue. In the north it is easier to get the 100 lbs or more of honey that the bees will need to overwinter into 2 brood boxes, however the late Richard Taylor only used a deep and a shallow, and overwintered his hives quite succesfully. In Florida you may only need 10-20 lbs of honey for winter, so having 2 deeps, and letting the bees store 70-80 lbs of honey year round may not be as advantagious.

I think in this case a queen excluder is necessary

Not neccessarily true. You may only want to use the queen excluder when you are on major honey flow, or when on a varietal honey like orange blossom.
Times like now you may not want one on at all. The excluder could lead to increased congestion, swarming, etc.. One thing I do is after Christmas, I switch the positions of my boxes, and my food chamber will be on the bottom. I will leave it there until I split the hive (early March), then I reverse the boxes putting on the queen excluder, and adding supers as needed. Once the honey flow is over (late May), I will remove the excluder with the supers, and leave it off until the next spring. Yes on occaision the queen will lay eggs in the food chamber, but it usually happens because the brood chamber is filling up with pollen/honey. 

Like Bjorn said it is an artform, It is used by comb honey producers, and it also used by warm climate beekeepers!


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## Penultimate (Jun 26, 2007)

After reading your question, I came across this article on Beesource and thought that you might find it useful.

http://www.beesource.com/pov/wright/bcnov03.htm


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## FordGuy (Jul 10, 2005)

BjornBee said:


> Many honey producers do that. Then they allow the bees to use the lesser quality honey later in the season and the fall to build up the secong box to overwinter.
> Its really a good way to get honey from packages and nucs.
> 
> I know a few who suppress all the bees into one box early in the spring to get early maple and apple blossom honey.
> ...


Hey Bjorn. Please break that down for me - I honestly don't see 
how you suppress bees in one box without swarming
how that would affect quality of honey
how bees in one box would help you get maple and apple - you'll get it anyway

Thanks


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Fordguy,
Usually, any maple or apple blossom honey is filled in the brood chamber if you come out of winter with a classic two deep configuration, or some likewise setup. These floral sources are considered early spring buildup sources and most hives don't start packing away the honey in supers with maples, and apples for the most part.

Suppressing bees from three boxes down to two, or two down to one, always increases swarming. But its the nature of the beast so to speak, and if you want early honey, thats what you can do.

If you look at your main flow, its usually for a specific period of time. Something like 6 or 8 weeks, at least around here. So intensive swarm management is not for a long period of time if you think about it. What they do after the flow like swarming means little to a beekeeper who requeens and is finished with honey. Yes, the bees collect honey throughout a longer period of time, but if your a (good)honey producer, you know the main flows, what kind of honey you want, and tailor your management timing to maximize your efforts.

Building up your hives, suppressing them down, and even removing open brood and the queen, will maximize your honey crop. A full hive, with no laying queen, no open larvae to occupy bees, and take resources, means more honey being stored. You can actually time the removal of the queen with your swarming management. A few key, well timed swarm management inspections, usually keeps things running the right way. But for many, swarming is swarming with little effort in prevention. So compacting bees down and doing these mentioned management techniques comes with increased risk.

Hope this helps.


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## Panhandle Bee man (Oct 22, 2003)

In Florida, for a large portion of the year, a double deep hive is just a little too much space, that is why some beekeepers use a deep, and a super as their standard setup. The biggest problem is during swarming season which starts late feb and goes through april. Timed right, 3-4 frames of foundation will do wonders on stopping swarming, timed wrong, it is a recipe for disaster. By running 1-1/2 setup, you are not cramming the bees in, and you will collect the majority of the honey the hive produces. Also by leaving a full super that was collected at the end of the honey flow (end of May-early June), you are not leaving "inferior", or poor quality honey for the hives to survive on.


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## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

Compressing the bees is as old as the hills, but has somehow 
become some sort of magic trick performed only by us
Jedi-Master-Beekeepers, who  never leave the bees to themselves, 
and want to help them make the most and best comb honey.

It is MUCH easier to compress bees when using mediums as brood
supers, as compressing two deeps into one is a reduction of *half*,
while compressing 3 mediums into 2 is only a reduction of 1/3 and
compressing 4 mediums down to 3 is only a reduction of 1/4.

But, if you want decent comb honey, you find the queen, cage
her with a press-in cage, compress the hive, and slap on your comb 
honey supers, all with perfect timing, just before the early spring blooms.

Any of the many books written by Richard Taylor address these
practices, so it is not like I am suggesting some new and hihhly
speculative practice.


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## Dan Williamson (Apr 6, 2004)

I have one hive that was a Double deep coming thr winter. Around late April I took the top deep without swapping frames around. Made sure the queen was in the bottom deep. Added and exluder and RR supers.

About every 3 weeks I've gone in and taken two frames of brood and bees out to boost other colonies or make splits/mating nucs. I haven't seen one queen cell and they are almost done with their 4th box of comb honey (3 RR and 1 cut comb Illinois super.)

Timing will also vary by location and flow. My best comb honey came from the soybean flow that started around July 1st. The RR super that was on before that in June packed in a pretty dark honey.


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## aidah (May 29, 2007)

If I keep this one hive in a deep w 10 frames and in the early spring start adding honey supers, than after the honey flow take the supers off and add a second brood chamber for the duration of the summer, can I split this hive and start all over again in the spring? Can any of you follow this train of thought? Some learned soul said beekeeping would calm me???


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