# Truck Scales - under 26K GVWR



## HVH

Do you have to stop at the scales with an empty 24' flatbed rated under 26K (with air brakes)? What about a load that is obviously under 26K total weight?


----------



## bhfury

Yes.

California's "Commercial Vehicle Enforcement Facilities" are commonly called weigh stations or truck scales. These facilities are operated by the California Highway Patrol (CHP), not by Caltrans. However, Caltrans receives many inquiries about weigh stations. This page is designed to answer some of those questions.

California Vehicle Code Section 2813 outlines who must stop at weigh stations and inspection stations:

2813. Every driver of a commercial vehicle shall stop and submit the vehicle to an inspection of the size, weight, equipment, and smoke emissions of the vehicle at any location where members of the California Highway Patrol are conducting tests and inspections of commercial vehicles and when signs are displayed requiring the stop. Every driver who fails or refuses to stop and submit the vehicle to an inspection when signs are displayed requiring that stop is guilty of a misdemeanor. 

California Vehicle Code Section 260 defines "commercial vehicle" (bolding and underlining added):

260. (a) A "commercial vehicle" is a motor vehicle of a type required to be registered under this code used or maintained for the transportation of persons for hire, compensation, or profit or designed, used, or maintained primarily for the transportation of property.


----------



## HVH

Thanks - that's what I was afraid of. So my truck is considered commercial even though I use a 'C' license. 
If empty, however, I am not transporting any property or making any money so I still wonder if an empty truck can be considered commercial since it doesn't meet those criteria when empty.
Yes - I know - it is supposed to make us all safe $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


----------



## bhfury

HVH said:


> So my truck is considered commercial even though I use a 'C' license.


 Yes.



HVH said:


> If empty, however, I am not transporting any property or making any money so I still wonder if an empty truck can be considered commercial since it doesn't meet those criteria when empty.
> Yes - I know - it is supposed to make us all safe $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


Why are driving the truck in Ca? Just taking it to the beach for a family vacation?

You are still required to stop. Now, can you go by the scale without being stopped, sure. Can they come after you to investigate your situation and cite you for failing to stop at the scale, sure. I did commercial enforcement for the CHP for five years. You meet the definition.

Do you have your company name on the side of your truck?


----------



## HVH

No company name yet - only Penske 
Maybe I should put a sign on it "Family Vacation Car". "Yes officer - I take my bees on all our vacations".


----------



## AmericasBeekeeper

Scale/Inspection station requirements and enforcement vary even within the same state. If it looks like they can get a fine out of you for not stopping, and even a brand new truck has a ticket waiting somewhere, and they are not pre-occupied - take a moment to pull through and they will wave you on. 

Florida has not been a good place to bypass stations. I was born and raised here and enforcement is easy revenue. Even a 10,001 pickup is "commercial" in several states now. There are a few pulling 30,000 behind a 1/2 ton pickup, original tires and brakes from 1969 that have never been stopped. The stricter rules are because of those experts. By the way, if you pull a 1 pound trailer behind a truck with a 26000 GVWR you are in for a commercial/overweight violation. 

My daughter and son-in-law are cops in Va. They have to stop vehicles to raise revenue to pay their salaries. If there is anything that they can impound the vehicle, they will! Overweight, GVWR, GCVWR, GAWR, tire and wheel load ratings, worn or cut tire, slack adjusters out of range, lights out, modified suspension, even excessive rust! North Carolina has started going after the "recreational" vehicles now too.


----------



## odfrank

In Cali even a pickup must stop if it has been converted to a flatbed. The scales often have a sign saying "No Pickups".


----------



## bhfury

AmericasBeekeeper and Odfrank are correct. Now, if you were to put "Not For Hire" on the side of the vehicle, that would be of some help. But, if they prove you are for hire...and that means a whole lot of things, then you will subject to the all regs and will be cited.


----------



## AmericasBeekeeper

"Not for Hire" will get you off with the uninformed cops. It means you are hauling your own products. To DOT and state troopers it means you have a business that is hauling your own products engaged in commerce. Beekeepers have an exemption, med card, HOS, vary bay state, CDL is same everywhere
TITLE 49 - TRANSPORTATION

SUBTITLE B - OTHER REGULATIONS RELATING TO TRANSPORTATION

CHAPTER III - FEDERAL MOTOR CARRIER SAFETY ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION

SUBCHAPTER B - FEDERAL MOTOR CARRIER SAFETY REGULATIONS

PART 391 - QUALIFICATIONS OF DRIVERS AND LONGER COMBINATION VEHICLE (LCV) DRIVER INSTRUCTORS

subpart a - GENERAL

391.2 - General exemptions.

(a) Farm custom operation. The rules in this part do not apply to a driver who drives a commercial motor vehicle controlled and operated by a person engaged in custom-harvesting operations, if the commercial motor vehicle is used to (1) Transport farm machinery, supplies, or both, to or from a farm for custom-harvesting operations on a farm; or (2) Transport custom-harvested crops to storage or market.

(b) Apiarian industries. The rules in this part do not apply to a driver who is operating a commercial motor vehicle controlled and operated by a beekeeper engaged in the seasonal transportation of bees.

(c) Certain farm vehicle drivers. The rules in this part do not apply to a farm vehicle driver except a farm vehicle driver who drives an articulated (combination) commercial motor vehicle, as defined in 390.5.

(For limited exemptions for farm vehicle drivers of articulated commercial motor vehicles, see 391.67.) [36 FR 24219, Dec. 22, 1971, as amended at 37 FR 26112, Dec. 8, 1972; 54 FR 12202, Mar. 24, 1989; 60 FR 38745, July 28, 1995; 61 FR 13346, Mar.

26, 1996; 61 FR 17253, Apr. 19, 1996]
Text
TITLE 49 - TRANSPORTATION

SUBTITLE B - OTHER REGULATIONS RELATING TO TRANSPORTATION

CHAPTER III - FEDERAL MOTOR CARRIER SAFETY ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION

SUBCHAPTER B - FEDERAL MOTOR CARRIER SAFETY REGULATIONS

PART 391 - QUALIFICATIONS OF DRIVERS AND LONGER COMBINATION VEHICLE (LCV) DRIVER INSTRUCTORS

subpart a - GENERAL

391.2 - General exemptions.

(a) Farm custom operation. The rules in this part do not apply to a driver who drives a commercial motor vehicle controlled and operated by a person engaged in custom-harvesting operations, if the commercial motor vehicle is used to (1) Transport farm machinery, supplies, or both, to or from a farm for custom-harvesting operations on a farm; or (2) Transport custom-harvested crops to storage or market.

(b) Apiarian industries. The rules in this part do not apply to a driver who is operating a commercial motor vehicle controlled and operated by a beekeeper engaged in the seasonal transportation of bees.

(c) Certain farm vehicle drivers. The rules in this part do not apply to a farm vehicle driver except a farm vehicle driver who drives an articulated (combination) commercial motor vehicle, as defined in 390.5.

(For limited exemptions for farm vehicle drivers of articulated commercial motor vehicles, see 391.67.) [36 FR 24219, Dec. 22, 1971, as amended at 37 FR 26112, Dec. 8, 1972; 54 FR 12202, Mar. 24, 1989; 60 FR 38745, July 28, 1995; 61 FR 13346, Mar.

26, 1996; 61 FR 17253, Apr. 19, 1996]
Read more: http://cfr.vlex.com/vid/391-2-general-exemptions-19947537#ixzz1AELDaOSq


----------



## bhfury

Are you scared yet


----------



## loggermike

You should be scared ,This is CALIFORNIA.

Just stop at the scales and don't worry. Likely when they see all the bees they will be happy to wave you on through.If not, well all the CHP I have dealt with were very professional (as they wrote me fix it tickets).


----------



## kilocharlie

HVH - Better check if you need a class "B" license with those air brakes. Make sure those slack adjusters are within specs, and maintain those brakes! I check my brakes every month. I wouldn't want to be in an multicar pile-up with 1.2 million very upset bees. Sounds like a good movie scene in a movie from hell. (Apologies to Henry Winkler, twice!) 

The DOT caught my buddy hauling a trailer rated over 10,000 lbs and he had to go to school for a class "A" license, which he had to pass and get the license, or pay a huge fine (he passed). The test is not that difficult if you study, but you need to verbalize every thought during the walk-around inspection. Also need a driver with a current class "A" or "B" license to drive the test vehicle to the DMV for the test.

Also check that your insurance knows what you are doing. If they find that you are doing commercial work and aren't paying commercial truck insurance, guess what? They won't pay for the accident. Make it clear to them if you are a hobbyist or are in business. Inform them if your status changes.


----------



## HVH

So much for "We the people...". Thanks comrades for your help. I could easily go on a rant but it wouldn't change anything. Stopping is not that big of a deal other than it makes me feel like I am in a different country where I must show my papers. And to think - I haven't even been to an airport to experience the new face of America:ws
I really long for the good old days.

Kilocharlie - I was trying to avoid all the commercial red tape. If I get a trailer, I will make sure it is rated under 10K and will definitely keep the brakes in working order.


----------



## HarryVanderpool

bhfury said:


> Are you scared yet


No.

I know of several beekeepers that have been stopped or pulled aside for inspection in their one-tons or 450s / 550s and NONE of them has been ticketed for lack of CDL.

I have one friend that was pulled over 3 times in one year. The only thing he had wrong was his breakaway wire had fallen aside. He fixed it on the spot, recieved a warning and was on his way.

I enjoy my annual trip to almonds and none of the negitive hype will change that.

Hope you all have a good trip!


----------



## loggermike

On any truck over 10,001 lbs and up GVWR you will need a DOT number, or on CA registered trucks a Motor Carrier Permit #. They will ticket you if you dont have one. They wrote me one for my 77 F350 .Because it was 10,000GVWR I was able to get it dismissed.

But like you, I need bigger trucks so will have to do it this year. If you aren't hiring drivers, its not that big of a deal and you will not be sucked into all the additional requirements like drug testing,worker comp proof, and the BIT inspection. It does require a certain level of liability insurance.

Air brakes require something besides a regular drivers license in CA. Not sure about what. But if you are legal in Nevada, it should be good here??

Also, the requirement for a CDL is over 26000 lbs and if I remember correctly, over 40 feet. Also there are trailer limits as was pointed out. So 450s and 550s don't need a CDL.

I don't worry about the CHP as much as the morons who will pass your truck on a blind corner.California has a LOT of really bad drivers.


----------



## bhfury

If you have any questions about licensing, size/weight, special permits, commercial vehicle requirements. You can call the CHP's Commercial Vehicle Unit in Sacramento. They will answer all your questions. This is a public phone number (916) 445-1865.


----------



## Mtn. Bee

Isn't Caly its own Country??? :s

Must be, because my lawnmower states that it can't be used in CA but it can be used legally in the rest of the states!

:ws


----------



## HVH

AmericasBeekeeper said:


> subpart a - GENERAL
> 
> 391.2 - General exemptions.
> 
> (a) Farm custom operation. The rules in this part do not apply to a driver who drives a commercial motor vehicle controlled and operated by a person engaged in custom-harvesting operations, if the commercial motor vehicle is used to (1) Transport farm machinery, supplies, or both, to or from a farm for custom-harvesting operations on a farm; or (2) Transport custom-harvested crops to storage or market.
> 
> (b) Apiarian industries. The rules in this part do not apply to a driver who is operating a commercial motor vehicle controlled and operated by a beekeeper engaged in the seasonal transportation of bees.
> 
> (c) Certain farm vehicle drivers. The rules in this part do not apply to a farm vehicle driver except a farm vehicle driver who drives an articulated (combination) commercial motor vehicle, as defined in 390.5.
> 
> (For limited exemptions for farm vehicle drivers of articulated commercial motor vehicles, see 391.67.) [36 FR 24219, Dec. 22, 1971, as amended at 37 FR 26112, Dec. 8, 1972; 54 FR 12202, Mar. 24, 1989; 60 FR 38745, July 28, 1995; 61 FR 13346, Mar.


Do the exemptions above mean beekeepers don't need a DOT number? I'm kind of getting ticked off because the whole idea of getting an under 26K truck was to avoid the rectal exams. I am really sick of all the regulations and other people telling me how to live. So now that this truck weighs over 10,001 lbs I need to apply for a DOT number and then get audited for safety? All I want to do is haul bees once a year.


----------



## HarryVanderpool

>>> Do the exemptions above mean beekeepers don't need a DOT number? <<<

The exemtions are from the standard that that they apply to ONLY. 391

391 is "Driver Qualifications" ie; medical card, drug test, etc........

It does not mean you can drive on bald tires, drink and drive, speed, .....

We still have to go by the rules.

Sec 391:

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/FmcsrGuideDetails.aspx?menukey=391


----------



## JBJ

And don't forget to keep a log book... They require those you report for your exam. We were told that any truck over 10,000 GVW must keep a log book and stop at the scales. We also have farm plates with and a door magnet with dot # and business name. Cali is very hard up for $$ so they will be looking. And to think we are actually helping make more Californian nuts!


----------



## HVH

Now your telling me I can't drink or do drugs while driving 
I have a friend that rents the same kind of truck from Penske without having his own DOT number, so I guess driving a rental truck is safe:scratch:


----------



## HVH

JBJ said:


> And don't forget to keep a log book... They require those you report for your exam. We were told that any truck over 10,000 GVW must keep a log book and stop at the scales. We also have farm plates with and a door magnet with dot # and business name. Cali is very hard up for $$ so they will be looking. And to think we are actually helping make more Californian nuts!


What exam? I thought the log book was for IFTA. 
I'm sure old "Moonbeam" will fix California.


----------



## goldenmeadowhoney

Remember the IFTA and IRP regulation

If your 26,000lb rated truck is load and gets stopped at a weigh station if you are over the registered weight you will get fined not only for the over-weight but also ifta and irp will kick in and thats where the fines will tack up.
ifta fines can cost $1,000.
if you haul a trailer that will put your registered weight over 26,000lb get ifta decals and complie. we run farm plates on our trucks and trailers, should have cdl's but the scales are looking at the weights and ifta decals, will generally get you thru.


----------



## HVH

I've got a lot of mixed info on 26k GVW but the DMV showed me in writing that I can load my truck to 26k and still pull a trailer under 10K. I also found a site where an FMCRA rep stated the same. I have almost zero confidence in anything at this point and hope if I make any minor errors that it will be a warning and not a ticket. Everyone appears to have a different opinion on this stuff with tickets to prove they're right. I will get "not for hire" stickers and all the safety stuff, and temp permit, and hope for the best driving the truck back to Nevada from CA. I hate being at the bottom of a learning curve.


----------



## G B

Best of luck. I dont envy you. I hope all goes well with you ....GB


----------



## loggermike

Like Harry said-just have fun and enjoy the trip.The CHP is often confused about all this too.


----------



## HVH

There are just too many rules these days. Like the lyrics "sign, signs, everywhere is signs, breaking the scenery, breaking my mind, can't do this, do that can't you read the signs"


----------



## Riverdog

I just finished up this whole gig for my truck. It's a f550. 16 ft flatbed
Law: must have us dot # and name on truck
must keep time log for when I'm in the 150 radius keep three months in office last 30 days in truck preferred 
When traveling out side 150 k or State to State must keep log book
Must do annual inspection on truck and trailers 
Proper insurance and registration 
Copy of regestration with proper tire size on that paper(you can hand that over instead of the original.)
And well that's most of it. You need to keep on file service records. Good idea any way

I'm sure I missed stuff but I was pulled over three week ago. Not pretty. But if you look like your trying to abide the just might take it easier on you. 

Other good ideas are Dot medical card. Most offices. Charge 50$ it's a quick phyiscal
Exemptions are nice but if your running pirate it will catch up with you.
Quarterly self truck inspection kept in an inspection book in your truck. 

Some states are different. The best way to really cross your T's and dot your I's is to apply for a us dot number. After one year you will typically receive an evaluation. This officer knows what's up. If he doesn't, encourage him to look up those exceptions mentioned in earlier post. 

Other than that CHIPS are nailing us. It's not the scales that worry me, its the hwy patrol that think they know every law. They will cost you time and money. 

This is coming from a Colorado keeper. 

Good Luck and if you find major additional laws I missed feel free to pm me. 
Chad

Ps. I don't intend to know everything but I'm learning as I go. See you on Cali at the beach.


----------



## kilocharlie

Thank you Riverdog! And straight from the 2010 Californication Driver Handbook, page 5, LICENSE CLASSES: Class C License - You may drive any 2-axle vehicle with a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) of 26,000 lbs. or less; any 3-axle vehicle weighing 6,000 lbs. or less gross; any housecar 40 feet or less; 3-wheel motorcycle; a vanpool vehicle designed to carry more than 10, but not more than 15 persons including the driver. The driver must have a medical certification on file with the DMV and carry a valid medical card. The driver shall keep in the vanpool vehicle a statement, signed under penalty of perjury, that he/she has not been convicted of reckless driving, drunk driving, or hit-and-run in the last five years.

You may tow: a single vehicle with a GVWR of 10,000 or less including a tow dolly if used.

With a vehicle weighing 4,000 lbs. or more unladen, you may tow: a trailer coach or 5th wheel travel trailer under 10,000 lbs. GVWR when towing is not for compensation; a 5th wheel travel trailer exceeding 10,000 lbs. but under 15,000lbs GVWR, when towing is not for compensation and with endorsement.

A farmer or employee of a farmer may drive any combination of vehicles with a GVWR of 26,000 lbs. or less if used exclusively in agricultural operations and it is not for hire or compensation.

NOTE: Class C licensees may not tow more than one vehicle; a passenger vehicle, regardless of weight, may not tow more than one vehicle; no motor vehicle under 4,000 lbs. unladen weight may tow any vehicle weighing over 6,000 lbs. or more gross. (CVC 21715)

I'll get back to you with class B license info soon.


----------



## HVH

Thanks riverdog and kilocharlie,

I just got back from the DMV. The gal treated me like an idiot because I didn't thoroughly understand IRP, DOT, IFTA, etc. She said I could avoid IRP if I pay at the truck scales at Truckee (I thought otherwise for less than 26K GVWR) instead of upfront splitting between Nevada and California. I guess the DOT and a physical are required but no IFTA. 
I tried to figure a way to get a temporary permit to allow me to transport my truck from California back to Reno but she indicated I would have to get some kind of paperwork from California at one of their DMV offices in person. The problem is that I purchased the truck from Penske in Washington and had them drive it to a shop in California to have a lift gate added. Once the truck is fitted with a lift gate I need to go get it and return to Nevada. You would think that Nevada could issue a temporary permit for the trip. 
Now I have to fill out an affidavit for farming; registration for DOT; get a physical; and then get VIN inspection and registration. I feel like a bee covered with Varroa. I guess after this mess is over I can look forward to working on taxes for a solid week. Its no wonder our economy is in the toilet. All the time spent filling out useless paperwork could be used toward economic expansion and innovation.


----------



## kilocharlie

HVH - crying with you, buddy! Seems they cloned Elmer Fudd, subtracted any good qualities he might have had, and the clones all have power trip issues and work for the government.

On the positive side - try to find and make friends with a trucker or even a bee transporter with a class A license and see if he can make it all seem easier for you. You're a few months ahead of me in the same steps, although I won't have the air brakes. I figured beekeeping would require a class A license sooner or later, so I'm studying for it. My police friends suggested going for a ride-along with the CHPs and get to know them. I've started applying and plan on springing for lunch, bringing cookies and doughnuts. Sounds like brown nosing, but these guys can help a lot and they don't get fussy with guys they know and like.


----------



## HVH

The thing is - I purchased an under 26K GVWR truck so I could drive with a Class-C for the time being. I may go commercial too, some day, but I had hoped that running with a non-commercial license would allow me to drive the truck like it was just a big pick-up. I guess it is still considered a commercial vehicle (over 10,001 lbs) even though I am driving it with a non-commercial license. The gal at the DMV told me I will need a medical card. I was told before hand that I wouldn't. I was also told I didn't need a DOT number until the same gal told me otherwise. It isn't that I can't do all this crap, but it just fries me to no end being regulated to the point where the real work doesn't get done. I think there is some truth to the argument that the roads are safer for it, but where do you draw the line in the sand. Is one accident too many. Is 10 too many? Is 100,000 too many? Do we get to the point where we realize that we are handing our futures over to China because we have gotten soft and over-regulated? Besides, I think it has more to do with revenue enhancement than safety. 
Why no air brakes?


----------



## beeware10

go to a truck stop and pick up a green federal safety regulations book. 5 dollars+ mine is on page 376 (apiarian industries) it says the rules of this part do not apply. no medical exam,etc. carry this book with you because most people do not know of special exemptions for beekeepers. you have to take care of yourself. they cannot argue when it shows the law in black and white. good luck


----------



## HVH

I've read that section and hope the Black & White thing works.


----------



## HVH

Did some research last night and the gal from the DMV was wrong about virtually everything. No medical card for farmers, no IRP/IFTA for under 26K, and I can get a movement permit in my home state. 
I am going to another DMV today hoping I can find someone that is informed and get this truck home.


----------



## HVH

Riverdog said:


> I just finished up this whole gig for my truck. It's a f550. 16 ft flatbed
> Law: must have us dot # and name on truck
> must keep time log for when I'm in the 150 radius keep three months in office last 30 days in truck preferred
> When traveling out side 150 k or State to State must keep log book
> Must do annual inspection on truck and trailers
> Proper insurance and registration
> Copy of regestration with proper tire size on that paper(you can hand that over instead of the original.)
> And well that's most of it. You need to keep on file service records. Good idea any way
> 
> I'm sure I missed stuff but I was pulled over three week ago. Not pretty. But if you look like your trying to abide the just might take it easier on you.
> 
> Other good ideas are Dot medical card. Most offices. Charge 50$ it's a quick phyiscal
> Exemptions are nice but if your running pirate it will catch up with you.
> Quarterly self truck inspection kept in an inspection book in your truck.


All of the above sounds about right. The med card is a bit of a question. I don't think we need it but that doesn't mean it won't bite. I also think you have to have all the safety cones and other stuff as well.
So I guess everyone that rents a big flatbed from Penske has jumped through all these loops -


----------



## Bsweet

HVH, I know first hand that if you have any questions concerning a comm. truck and or regulations DO NOT ask DMV or a local law dog. Call your state motor carrier enforcment office or go to a weight station and ask them,they know the laws on comm. trucks/drivers and can show you in the book. most DMV and local police (and this includes highway patrol) know very little on motor carrier regs. Bsweet


----------



## HVH

Thanks for the advice. You are right - the commercial DMV office we have hear gave me wrong information on almost every imaginable question plus an attitude to go with it. As someone else posted, I will get the green book at a weigh station and dog ear 391.2. I will also collect all other rules and have them handy. 
Thanks everyone for your help.


----------



## ilovdieselsmoke

I've run in & out of the state of Florida for the past forty five years. I started out hauling live chickens in Florida when first got licensed then got into reefer trailers hauling produce. Most time anymore I'm steady pulling flatbed, dropdeck, or once in a while a lowboy trailer. I don't ever stop at the Florida scales when empty nor at the agri stations with a flatbed. Back in the sixties when I first started trucking I was told on several occasions to continue on after pulling across the scales a few times with empty trailers. Actually it just creates extra vehicular congestion with empty trucks jamming up the facilities but while trucking in other states I do stop because they will come after you with fines for running the scales. Never been stopped or had a problem with the enforcement in Florida other than a normal check when loaded sometimes crossing the scales. It's to bad other states don't use a little common sense and allow trucks to pass when they can clearly see there is no load on a trailer especially when an interruption in traffic due to vehicles entering or leaving the roadway can quickly cause another accident.


----------



## John R C

No special license required just because of air brakes. Everyone seems to think a class B is required but its not The NC DMV had to write a letter to the DoD and the gate guard contractor at SJAFB because the gate guards seemed to think we needed a CDL or some special endorsement but never could seem to find it in the book.


----------



## SippyBees

IF you are required to have a CDL, and IF your vehicle has air brakes... then you must have an air brake endorsement. BUT if you are not required to have a CDL to operate the vehicle... then it doesn't matter what kind of brakes you have... air or otherwise. 
Beware also that the Federal requirements for CDL is minimum for all states.... BUT.. states CAN require more than the Federal requirements.... ie: The exemption for Apiaries... may not be exempted in certain states. UNLESS it is exempted in your state of registration. In my understanding is... if you are legally registered/ licensed in YOUR state, then you are legal in all states that have reciprocity with your state... and most states have signed this reciprocity. PHYSICAL regulations still apply in each individual state... speed limits/ load limits/ etc etc... but License and registration is only controlled by your home of registration. 
I drive a Cabover tractor (registered as motorhome) pulling a 40' RV (42,000# gross) and I do NOT have a CDL... and is not required in any state that has reciprocity with Mississippi... RV's are exempted from all CDL requirements in MS
If you are hauling your OWN bees... have farm plates.... are we SURE we need a CDL, or DOT#? After reading all of this I still don't know. I am going to check what MY state requires... and that should be legal anywhere else. IMHO


----------



## lake thompson honey

what are the rules that dont apply to beekeepers? crossing scales has become a nighmare for me. full inspections, new permits required, randomly pulled over by the DOT in my one ton for a side of the road inspection. what do i need to know other than where the gravel roads are?


----------



## kilocharlie

Lake Thompson - Bsweet posted in #37 on page 2 of this thread, "...go to your state commercial vehicle enforcement office or local weigh station..." He is referring to the Federal commercial motor carrier regulation book. I am sorry that I don't yet have mine to quote from verbatim - I'm not using my class A yet. There are exceptions for beekeepers in it, 50-state federal regulation exceptions for us. It would be wise to have the book (with tabs on the significant pages), several copies of the beekeeper exceptions for passing out, and a laminated copy of laws pertaining to beekeepers. I'll get my act together and post it all soon.


----------



## keeper

lake thompson honey said:


> what are the rules that dont apply to beekeepers? crossing scales has become a nighmare for me. full inspections, new permits required, randomly pulled over by the DOT in my one ton for a side of the road inspection. what do i need to know other than where the gravel roads are?


If you don't haul out of state or to limited states around your home state... You should be able to run farm plates and be exempt from the DOT regs.


----------



## kilocharlie

As a baseball umpire, I used to try to keep personalities out of the discussions while welcoming discussion about the rules, even if a coach brought out his rule book. I imagine most DOT enforcement officials will similarly try to work with a guy who has his rules photocopied, highlighted, and laminated and shows a genuine effort toward compliance, especially one who is polite.

A "Thank you", a sample jar of honey, a smile, and a handshake make a great impression with a majority of them.


----------



## benstung

Was just pulled over in Iowa driving a 5500 pulling a trailer licensed at 10k and was told i need a CDL, apportioned plates, and a medical card. 
Is that correct or does that exception for beekeepers apply?


----------



## kilocharlie

The trailer got you...had it been rated for 9990 lbs, (ie. less than 10,000 lbs) you would *NOT* need a Commercial DL, nor the plates, nor the medical card, unless of course, your truck was over 26,000 lbs gross in the first place.

The size of the trailer and/or being from out of state were probably the visual cues that they noticed first.

Some states will dismiss it if you go and get the Class A within one year, so ask a former judge in Iowa, and if the answer is yes, go get your Class A. Also ask him if a private Class A will get it dismissed, or if you need a CDL. You will probably be able to get it in your own state, but make sure you know the articulation requirements for Iowa with your state to get it dismissed ((what paperwork needs to be submitted to which address(es), do you need to return IA to appear?, etc.))

Definitely consider this, as it may work out cheaper than the fines.

Good Luck, but do your best to Make Your Luck!


----------



## soupcan

What was the truck plated at & did you have farm tags for plates???


----------



## benstung

truck is 21k and trailer is 10k what about these apiary exceptions


----------



## RAK

No you don't need a CDL. According to Iowa CDL handbook the trailer would need to be over 10,000 gvw meaning it would need to be 10,001 or more. If you are right at 10k then your good.

You must have a CDL to operate:
• Any single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight
rating (GVWR) of 26,001 pounds or more.
• A trailer with a GVWR of more than 10,000
pounds if the gross combination weight rating
(GCWR) is 26,001 pounds or more.
• A vehicle designed to transport 16 or more
passengers (including the driver).
• Any size vehicle that is used in the
transportation of any material that requires
hazardous materials placards or any quantity
of a material listed as a select agent or toxin in
42 CFR 73.


----------



## Imperial

So if I had a Ford F-650 XLT with a 17' tray which has a rating of 26,000lbs I'd be okay on a regular license? 

Also, when they give the ratings for the vehicles, that's how much it can carry right? Not how much it weighs in total?


----------



## Beregondo

No, it's the Gross (total) weight.
Subtract the weight of your truck (or trailer, if that's what you're loading) from the gross, and add a generous cushion for dirt, fuel, crew, etc plus a buffer to get the weight of the load you can legally put on the truck.

When I was hauling wood chips for eastern Oregon to western Washington, I was once legal when I left the load yard but 500 lbs overweight when I got to the scale at Brightwood, OR on the other side of the mountains -- I had picked up that much water weight from rain, snow, and ice accumulation on a set of double trailers.

Even after i knocked enough ice off the undercarriage to be legal, the scale man didn't care, and got out his pen.

Load conservatively if you don't want tickets.

Dry wood can soak up a lot of water in a rainstorm, too.


----------



## jim lyon

Imperial said:


> So if I had a Ford F-650 XLT with a 17' tray which has a rating of 26,000lbs I'd be okay on a regular license?
> 
> Also, when they give the ratings for the vehicles, that's how much it can carry right? Not how much it weighs in total?


No they only care about the total gvw going down the road. empty you would be something under half of that.


----------



## Alyeska

The whole CDL thing has become a nightmare. 99 percent of the cops who will pull you are are clueless about the law. The DMV do not have a clue about what you need to drive your truck around, specialy if your in any way involved in comercial fraight hauling. Go to the DOT, the local scale, or simular, do not trust the cops, do not trust a judge, do not trust the DMV, thay do not know the law. A couple things, the anacranims can drive you nots, IFTA is International fuel tax agrement, something like that. DOT is Department of Transportation, errr can't remember all the rest of them, its been a while sense I drove a truck. Anyways, the best thing you can do is contact the DOT directly and find out the law. GET IT IN WRITING! Make copys, and carry thoes copys with you every time you move that truck. As for scales, pretty much so, if your running a comercial, of any sort, you have to cross the scales. Depending on state, some of them are much much worse than others. You can zip past the scales if your under a certian waight, or if you do not have a trailer, but, got a trailer, your going to want to pull in. YOu will want to get a copy of the DOT rules, and learn them, and mark the relivant pasages, as some cops will pull you over and ticket you for things that you are quite legal on. Some states are quite intent on raping people for any money thay can get.


----------



## soupcan

I have been reading the MAP-21 Amendments as I write this & it is probably something that one would not end up on the good side of Johnnie Law when you get in to the facts with the officer as to him not knowing his job ( the law ).
Remember these laws are not taylored for just beeks.
They are exemptions for the agricultural industry.
I still do not see how this is any kind of excuse for not knowing the law.
Yet the MAP-21 Amendments state that 3 years are allowed for states to adopt these changes.


----------



## mathesonequip

the old [5 years ago] rule of thumb was that if your pickup had single wheels on back when you came to a weigh station, just keep going .if you were pulling a trailer it did not matter. if they chased you down you might get chewed out but would only get a warning. if you pulled into a weigh station with the same vehicle you would get chewed out severely for wasteing their time anyway. if they deceide to give you a ticket they will, wether you deserve it or not makes no difference. if your driveing something larger, just be real polite and patient. if the truck is fairly clean and appears to have had some recent maintainence it helps alot. if you have bees on be sure they are tied down real well. if a few bees are loose you will not be at the scale house too long unless you are at the california border. if you have a cdl anyway when you do not really need it you are less likely to get a ticket....and so much for pigpen [scalehouse] etiquete....


----------



## John R C

mathesonequip said:


> pigpen [scalehouse] etiquete....


That's funny, my truck driver calls them chicken houses


----------



## mathesonequip

the scalehouses and inspection stops often have a chainlink fence full of cruisers, hence the name pigpen.if it is open it is no secret that the pigpen is open on the CB radio .if you can not wait them out and do not dare go thru then find a country road. a freind with a load of hay once waited out a roadblock for 5 1/2 days on a labor day weekend down in conneticut, they are famous nasty down there. in canada there are no CB radios allowed but the weigh stations are in fixed places, go around if you must. if you get to a road block with a pickup with dual wheels stop.


----------

