# Smoker



## Neubee (Mar 23, 2005)

I use the smoker fuel from Dadant. It light easily and stays lit long with little attention.

Neubee


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

the first thing a would be beekeeper needs to learn how to do without failure is to keep the smoker lit. nothing is quite as humbling as to find yourself having just popped open an angry hive of bees only to discover the smoker don't smoke. ahhhhhh..

and restarting a smoker with gloves on is pretty near impossible, or at least impossible for tecumseh.

there are any number of old and new tricks to help remedy this problem. an old trick was to soak small bits of charcoal in starter fluid and use these bits to get the smoker going. a newer version of the same idea is the starter logs (just break off a very small chunk and you have instant smoker success).

use a bit more dense fuel than pine straw (which in my mind burns up way too quickly) and keep the fuel pushed down to the bottom of the smoker if the smoker seems to start and then goes suddenly cold. pulpy wood makes for an excellent long burning fuel as does very dry cow pies (although the smell is not so pleasing).

I am afraid that my disconfort with your solution would be the prospect of a spark falling to the ground in dry conditions. now there is an underutilized method for controlling varroa mites.


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## gardenbees (May 8, 2005)

I hate my smoker. It is the small round dome variety and I'm about ready to chuck it for the larger ones. I just can't keep the thing lit no matter what I try. What type of maintenance between uses do you need to do? Do you dump all the burnt stuff and start with fresh? Theresa.


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

Theresa, I cork it when I'm done and empty it out when I go to light it again. If there's fuel left, that usually starts easily. I use dry grass and pine needles with an occassional pine cone and/or sumac flower head. Lately I've been using dry pine auger shavings (from boring 1" holes) and they work fine. I start with a scrap of newspaper, get a good little fire going, then add more fuel, tamp, pump, add fuel, etc. Keep puffing it for 20-30 seconds and it's good to go. 

Practice helps. As a former delinquent teenager and avid camper, I'm an old hand at getting fires going under any condition.

I usually just scrape up whatever fuel I can find around the yard but today I'm going out to the field with a rake and get a few garbage cans of dried grass. The field was bushhogged last fall and there's a lot of duff- old goldenrod stems, pine needles, and grass. Makes great fuel.

It's all about draft. If there's a breeze, point the smoke snout down wind, that will tend to draw the smoke out the hole and keep the fire going. In other words, you want the smoke drifing out and away from the smoker, not blowing back over it and the bellows. If you set it down the other way, the wind will blow in the out-hole and this will tend to smother the fire.

Pump it periodically. Don't expect it to stay going 45 minutes without attention, don't expect it to stay going 10 minutes if you're having trouble with it. Mine usually burns by itself till it runs out of fuel.

I've got several smokers, my least favorite is a brand new one from Mann Lake. One is tiny, about the size of a small (traditional) Campbell soup can. I got it with some used equipment I picked up and I love it, I use it when I don't have a lot to do, it saves on fuel. Otherwise I use my standard medium sized Dadant which is about 4" in diameter and 8" tall. Size doesn't matter!


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## Todd Zeiner (Jun 15, 2004)

I started out with the big SS smoker from Kelly. $35 I tried most of what is listed above then tried burlap, which works good but gags me if I get too close to the smoke. Next was old t-shirt material, that worked ok but would go out easier. 

Finally am using cedar shavings intended for pet bedding sold at wallmart and tractor supply. $5 per bale. Bale last's almost an entire season. It stays lit well and won't kill you if inhaled.

You just throw a handfull in and get it going good for a few min, then pack it full. It will last 30 min at least.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

First. Buy a big smoker. Second, learn how to light it. Burlap, IMO, is the best. Take a good size chunk of it and roll it loosely to fit the smoker. Light it from the bottom and hold it over the smoker until it is well lit. Keep oxegen to it until it is in the smoker and flames are coming out really well. Then close it and keep pumping until it's got flames shooting out the spout. Now it's lit. Make sure there is a pause before you use it on a hive. You don't want a flame thrower. Now if you can get one lit and keep one lit (you need those skills), build an insert or buy a rauchboy smoker.

http://www.bushfarms.com/images/SmokerInsert3.jpg
http://www.bushfarms.com/images/SmokerInsert2.JPG


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

If I were to calculate the time lost to lighting, and keeping lit, smokers it would make me throw the sucker.

I have a 10" with an insert. I've tried most everything. Including cedar. They work fine for 30 minutes and then you are scrounging.

I will try burlap as MB suggested and then the smoker goes on ebay and I am buying a Younger Smoker.

For a hobbyist a traditional smoker is fine and even gives you "warm, fuzzies". But if you have several they appear to waste valuable time.


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## GeeBeeNC (Aug 23, 2005)

Do you light from the bottom or the top?

Lighting from the bottom seems intuitive to me and I've never had problems with my smoker. But it seems from some of the discussion that I've read in this and other similar threads that many light from the top.

My process:

crumple 1/4 sheet newsprint and tear to fringe. light well with match and drop in smoker. Puff bellows slowly a few times to get flame going again. Drop in a small handfull of loose packed pine straw. puff bellows to flame. Roll enough pine straw to fill smoker and pack into smoker. Puff bellows slowly til flame rummbles out to bellows entrance. close top of ready to use smoker.

I keep a grocery bag of dry pine straw in my shed in case it's a wet day.


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

>They work fine for 30 minutes and then you are scrounging.

Scrounging for fuel? If it's running out of fuel that quickly you're either not packing it tight enough or you're using too much smoke!

In idle times I've mused about an auger-feed smoker, a built-in small butane lighter, or a thermostatically controlled solar-powered fan attachment, and any combination of the above. I've come up with all kinds of Rube Goldberg contraptions to automatically pump the bellows once a minute. My favorite idea is a smoker tender named Roberta that would also carry all my tools, a water bottle, etc. I'd just put my hand out, palm up and say "tool" or "brush" and they'd be slapped into my hand with efficient alacrity. The smoker tender would be responsible for keeping the smoker going and fueling it up periodically. I'd just say "Give `em a wiff Roberta" whenever I wanted more smoke.

All this, and I don't have a problem with my smoker. Clearly I have too much time on my hands.

Bruce, try the burlap. Michael keeps recommending it, I keep saying "it stinks" but we're both right- It's ideal fuel, you can't go wrong with burlap, and it *does* stink.


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## Big Stinger (Feb 17, 2006)

CEDAR SHAVINGS ARE THE BEST. CEDAR SHAVINGS ARE THE BEST. DID YOU HEAR ME CEDAR SHAVINGS ARE THE BEST.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Thanks George....... I'm going to give the burlap a go for sure.

Here an excerpt of a study regarding the Younger Smoker vs Burlap fueled traditional smoker and bee mortality.

"No significant differences in bee mortality were seen between the control groups (no smoke) and the Younger Bee Smoker. Bee mortality was significantly higher in the bees treated with burlap smoke than in either the controls, or the bees treated with the Younger Bee Smoker.
"

http://newbeesmoker.com/default.asp


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## power napper (Apr 2, 2005)

Okay Big Stinger, I guess you like cedar shavings!
Guess that I have better try some out to see what I am missing!


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Tried cedar shavings the last time. Great for very short time. Tended to either burn too fast and hot, or go out on me. Either way it was as good as others for that short, 30 minute look.


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

Baling twine...Burlap is good, but my free supply dried up. Now I have free bailing twine. Just fold and roll a few strands into a tight ball and keep them handy. Once lit, it is easy to add a ball and continue working.Like George says, keep the snout downwind and it will keep burning.


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## Lew Best (Jan 8, 2005)

Has anyone actually tried that Younger smoker? Looks like a great idea (particularly for a "quick look" at a hive or 2) but from the pix looks "bulky & awkward"?

Lew


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## Jim Williamson (Feb 16, 2006)

I saw the $165 price tag and quit looking. Planer shavings are abundant in my woodshop.


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## george dilley (Sep 5, 2005)

i use burlap and cedar both here burlap is free when the onions are bing picked just go to a field and ask for the bags with holes in them. when i use cedar i use a small piece of burlap to get the smoker started then add the cedar and tamp it down and add some more works fine for about 20 hives.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

They are not cheap............ but neither is my time. 

Guessing here, but in the course of a year working 200 hives it would save you lots of hours.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

The smoker fuel on the Younger contains essential oils as well. They do not make any claim on mite reduction, but I would think it has a good chance of doing some help.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

The main thing is to buy the instant on (self ingniting) propane torch.







That, and light from the bottom.







Also clean out the soot that has clogged up the flow of air.


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## Ruben (Feb 11, 2006)

I bought the large Dadant Smoker this winter and wanted to make sure I could keep it going when me bees got here, so this past weekend I balled up two sheets of newspaper and lit it with a match, then added three hand fulls of ceder chips on top of that and closed it and about 40 min. later I added another hand full of chips and then let it go until it quit smoking which was a total of an hour and a half.


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## Gardener (Jun 2, 2005)

crumpled newspaper, followed by cedar shavings, followed by wood pellets = long smoking time.


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## Brent Bean (Jun 30, 2005)

Listen to what Big Stinger is saying Cedar Chips are Best, since I have been using cedar chips I dont even need paper to get it lit. I just make a small cavity in the chips drop in a match and give the smoker a little air. After it gets hot pack it full and lots of white smoke that smells pretty good. And the stuff is cheap to you can by a bail for around $4 and it will last a long time. CEDAR CHIPS are BEST.


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## Big Stinger (Feb 17, 2006)

CEDAR CHIPS ARE THE BEST.


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## Jesus_the_only_way (Mar 17, 2006)

I agree with MB. Burlap is the easiest and the best.
I just start a few small pieces in the bottom to get it going and then add in on top of it. Who in their right mind starts a fire from the top anyway.


Tommy


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## divebee (Mar 15, 2006)

After trying the modification I first mentioned, thought what the heck, going to order another smoker. Ordered one of the big smokers from Dadant. Used it today. Man what a difference! This thing works!!!! It lit easy, fuel started up good and closed it and it kept going and put out tons of smoke!!! I used cardboard and pine straw worked good. Now I may try some of the cedar chips and such.. My old smoker was one of the dome shaped lid types.


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## Big Stinger (Feb 17, 2006)

You forgot CEDAR CHIPS ARE THE BEST.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Ordered one of the big smokers from Dadant. Used it today. Man what a difference! 

Size does matter. I don't understand why they even make the small ones, let alone sell them to beginners who don't know how to light a smoker.


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## Tia (Nov 19, 2003)

I used to hate my smoker; could never keep the thing lit; always went out when I needed it most. Now I use that smoker fuel that's probably nothing more than a plug about the size of a frozen orange juice can of compressed dryer lint. You peel off as much as you will need. I usually pull off about an inch. I light it with one of those small propane torches (the same one I use to light my FGMO fogger) and I'm good to go for all seven of my hives with fuel left over. It never goes out on me and issues nice, cool, consistent smoke as I need it. Stuff's not free like pine needles and such, but for the convenience, I'm willing to pay the small price.


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## livetrappingbymatt (Jan 13, 2006)

big mac wrappers to start then bailing twine( brown only) wood pellets more twine lasts all day!
bob


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## Ray Michaud (Dec 7, 2005)

Hey Big Stinger What kind of cedar Red---White or Aromatic?


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

I still like my sumac seed heads. And Michael is right. I moved from a small smoker to a large (dadant) smoker and 95% of my smoker problems went away. I also think the conical (dadant) style top is better than the domed style top. The dome tends to form a trap at the top that aids condensation in the smoker.


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## Big Stinger (Feb 17, 2006)

Just a bag of animal bedding from walmart or your local feed and seed store thats where i buy mine in 50 pd bags. The feed store gets them from a log cabin mill and 10 $ for 50 pd is real good.


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## All Organic Bees (Apr 29, 2006)

I use cardboard and it lasts for over an hour without pumping it at all. Do you want to know the secret. Actually I just found out how to do it from a friend. What you do is take a piece of cardboard and cut it a litle smaller than the height of the smoker. Roll it up tight( the tighter it is the longer it smokes, I roll it so there is about a one inch hole in the middle)and spray it well with WD-40 or some other flammable spray. Let it burn for a minuet and close the smoker. Two days ago I checked my hives and it took me over 1/2 hour and there was still plenty of smoke and fuel left.


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## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

> spray it well with WD-40...

And give your honey that delightful petro-chemical smell and
taste!!









I find that a balky smoker, if simply set down and ignorned for a
bit, will re-ignite itself and smoke very nicely.

But PUHLEEZE... no "lighter fluids" - the resulting smoke would
be so nasty, you could be killing bees with every puff.


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## Lew Best (Jan 8, 2005)

I did a huge removal day before yesterday (see feeding question topic on bee forum for pix) & tried a little burlap to light it then filled the big smoker with pellet stove pellets; burned 3 hours & still pellets left when I finished







Been planning on trying the pellets but never had before; I'm impressed with them!

Lew


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## Dan Williamson (Apr 6, 2004)

>>I find that a balky smoker, if simply set down and ignorned for a
bit, will re-ignite itself and smoke very nicely.

I have noticed this as well. Especially on a slightly breezy day.


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## dcross (Jan 20, 2003)

>>I find that a balky smoker, if simply set down and ignorned for a
bit, will re-ignite itself and smoke very nicely.>>


I've only found it to be effective if you set it in the car


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Yes........ I had a cranky smoker load that was "out" and set it in the garage. Came out the next morning to the wonderful scent of cedar smoke throughout the garage. Luckly I'd set it on the cement floor.


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## All Organic Bees (Apr 29, 2006)

Jim,
I know several professional beekeepers who use this method, beside several hobbist beekeepers. I also thought that it would kill the bees but I watched carefully and it does not and it also smells better than burlap and does not sting as much when it gets in your eyes.

[ May 03, 2006, 05:47 PM: Message edited by: Micah ]


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>And give your honey that delightful petro-chemical smell and
taste!!

Yummmmmmm. Petroleum.

An instant on (self igniting) propane torch will smell much better, light it more quickly and I'll bet it even costs less than the WD40 in the long run.


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## Lew Best (Jan 8, 2005)

hey Michael

Would you explain lighting using the torch? I've used a cigarette lighter to light some paper, etc. & then just stacked fuel in after lit so would see no advantage to the torch UNLESS there's a way to light the smoker AFTER packing the fuel in (which I hope is the case)!







Would make it much easier if a "half burnt up fuel load" could be relit without dumping it out.

Lew


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Would you explain lighting using the torch? I've used a cigarette lighter to light some paper, etc. & then just stacked fuel in after lit so would see no advantage to the torch UNLESS there's a way to light the smoker AFTER packing the fuel in (which I hope is the case)!

I light it on the bottom before putting it in, but you can make a space down the side of the fuel and blow some flame down to the bottom with the torch when the fire goes out.

>Would make it much easier if a "half burnt up fuel load" could be relit without dumping it out.

Excactly.


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

Lighting a smoker with petrochemicals is like lighting a campfire with gasoline. It means you don't know how to light a fire!

With the right tender, one match is all you need for either to flame right up.

Dry material is one key, gather a years worth and store it dry.

Pine needles work best, some sticks of wood in there to make HOT COALS helps if your having trouble. Once going well, pack em in tight for a long burn.

wood chips are second best in my opinion, simply because they burn so quickly. (I still like them alot) They make good HOT COALS, just add more chips when you run out and it fires right back up.

Dried leaves are at the bottom, even though thats what I've been using lately. My garage is full of them. Broken up sticks in the bottom of these helps again to make HOT COALS. For me, leaves usually require some relights, unless I get the sticks to HOT COALS. 

Did I mention HOT COALS?


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

Oh yea, I agree, big is better in the smoker depertment, "hobbiest" smokers suck.

Not opposed to propane torches, just seems like an extra piece of equipment, but maybe it could save some time to get some hot coals going.


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

The smoker is such an elegantly simple device, it's amazing that people have so much trouble with them. I suspect MichaelW is correct, that most people that have trouble with a smoker never played with matches when they were a kid or maybe they did and got caught and were henceforth terrified of even carrying matches, let alone using them. They also likely grew up in a house with a furnace. I have been kindling fires all my life it seems and have done so under some rather extreme conditions. There are a few times I was unable to kindle a fire however.

What comes to mind for me is a hike up Mount Katahdin in Maine one fall about 30 years ago, my girlfriend and I and another friend slogged our way to the top in the middle of a what started out as a rain storm but as we gained altitude gradually went from rain to freezing rain to sleet then finally as we neared the top, snow blowing sideways at around 30 miles an hour. By the time we gained the top, we were soaked to the skin, cold, tired, and hungry. And we wanted a cigarette. Badly.

About a hundred yards off the top there is a natural lean to formed by some huge slabs of rock. There's room for 3-4 people to huddle together and get out of the elements. We went in there. We had cigarettes, a bottle of water, a can of sardines, and a hunk of cheese.

Lighting a cigarette under these conditions turned out to be fruitless of course. There was no way. We were soaked, our ciggies were damp, the wind was blowing hard, our hands were so cold we couldn't HOLD a cigarette let alone try to light one.

Another experience comes to mind, also about 30 years ago, late one fall during the second half of the season around mid-December my friend Denis and I were jump shooting ducks over in the marsh. I was trying out his nice Ithaca pump 12 gauge with 3 3/4" magnum loads of #4 shot. 2 ducks were coming right at me. I fired. Missed. Fired again, missed. Now they were nearly overhead and I leaned back, fired, and missed, but the kick from the gun knocked me over, out of the boat. I hooked the gunwal with my foot, swamping the canoe. Denis grabbed my Stevens single shot 12 gauge, I held on to his gun, and over we went in about 6' of water. It was about 50 yards to what passed for solid ground out there. We hauled the swamped canoe over, breaking skim ice as we went, dragged it and ourselves up on what turned out to be a muskrat house, and assessed the situation. Of course, we were cold and wet, and we wanted a cigarette. We had smokes but they were soaked, as were our matches. It was a long cold paddle home, about 1.5 miles into the teeth of a southerly wind driving waves over the bow of the canoe.

Needless to say, I didn't get nicotine relief that time either, and a few others I can think of. Well, the obvious moral of these stories is you shouldn't smoke. Also, there are some situations where it's really unrealistic to expect to be able to kindle a fire without making special preparations. However, on a nice sunny day out in the apiary with at most a light breeze, plenty of matches and dry fuel at your disposal and a good smoker at hand, these are circumstances where even the most inept individual should be able to succeed at lighting a fire. Add in the prospect of facing boxes full of flying stinging insects without some smoke to calm them and you should have plenty of incentive. What you lack, is practice.


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

Nice stories George, I like the point too. I hope to make it to Katahdin one day.

A good way to learn about fire is to build one with sticks (and I don't mean match sticks). Its alot easier than you would think, that is if you have someone to show you how its done. Its all about the materials that you use. I've yet to walk into some woods and gather all the needed materials to build a fire, but seekeeing out the easiest materials, tender, etc. drying them indoors, and then building a fire with them is not that hard, but still not as easy as a properly prepared smoker!


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## power napper (Apr 2, 2005)

Tried out the cedar chips finally, easy to light, smoke does not gag me, kinda smells good! Lasts a long time without going out, burned all the fuel before going out. Bees were not fussed up with the smoke! Now I have to find a place to store the two cubic foot of compressed chips!


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## Brent Bean (Jun 30, 2005)

Listen to Big Stinger Cedar chips are best. They light easy stay lit, produce cool white smoke that smells pretty good. I fill my smoker about half full make a little cavity on the bellows side drop a match in and softly pump the bellows until they are cooking good and hot. Pack the smoker full and forget about it going out. I only have to add more fuel depending on how long Im in the bee yard. I put a cork in the spout when I am done and next time I need the smoker it lights up faster. I actually got the idea form Dr. Tew from Ohio State University.


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