# Anyone still make dadant deeps, frames, or foundation?



## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

I have a few hundred Dadant deep frames if you are interested. PM for price and shipping.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

WI-beek said:


> I want to try dadant deeps just for giggles. I would make the boxes if I could find frames.


 Dadants might be a good place to try, they have a branch in Watertown WI


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## WI-beek (Jul 14, 2009)

"Dadants might be a good place to try, they have a branch in Watertown WI"

They lady did not even know what they were. She kindly informed me the ones they have are 9-5/8


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Rossman sells 11 1/4" deep frames. 
229 985-7200

The end bars are normal thickness which is a bit thin for a tall frame. 
Dadant sells the foundation.


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## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

Pretty scary when the supplier does not know the deep super is 9 5/8 and the frames are 9 1/8, medium supers are 6 5/8, medium frames are 6 1/4. They are listed in the on-line catalog.


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## WI-beek (Jul 14, 2009)

Ok folks, it seems there is some confusion here. When I say dadant deep I am not talking about a normal/standard 9 5/8" deep box, I am talking about the "DADANT DEEP". It was developed by Charles Dadant, hence the name "Dadant Deep" It is 11 3/4 deep and holds 11 frames instead of 10. I guess some call it a Jumbo deep or Langstroth Jumbo.


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## Jim 134 (Dec 1, 2007)

"DADANT DEEP" (AKA) Jumbo are 11 frames 11 3/4" deep.


BEE HAPPY Jim 134


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## mythomane (Feb 18, 2009)

odfrank said:


> Rossman sells 11 1/4" deep frames.
> 229 985-7200
> 
> The end bars are normal thickness which is a bit thin for a tall frame.
> Dadant sells the foundation.



Do not wire these. Use a solid dowel or bar through the middle. It will give it support.


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## brushmouth (Jan 17, 2010)

WI-beek said:


> I want to try dadant deeps just for giggles. I would make the boxes if I could find frames.


 
Give Rossman's a call, I purchased some replacements this summer.
They are new old stock and will not be made anymore.
Think Ann Rossman said they had 1000 or so left.
Dadants has the foundation (wired with hooks in 25# boxes)
but only makes a run of it on occasion. 
Or Gene Weitzel a member of the board here, he was willing to make a min order of 100 frames. 
I ran short of time so I went with the new old stock.

I have some 11 1/4 dadant deeps and a few dadant buckfast jumbos (20x20) 
The combs are a sight to behold but don't even think about lifting.
The experiment is interesting but I have arrived at no decision yet,
will see what overwinter brings.
Right now I am dealing with 3 sized brood chambers and supers, that is something to avoid on a large scale.
Keep the project small until you make a decision to go with one size.
(I may even try some 8 frame equipment next year, 5 sizes with my 5 frame medium
nucs ....LOL)

PS: I copied this from old post on the board by Odfrank:
_"Historically in North America there were two large brood frame designs, the Dadant and the Langstroth Jumbo. There is no "Dadant Jumbo."

The standard Dadant brood frame (like the one used by Br. Adam) has the dimensions 17 5/8 * 11 1/4 inches. There are 11 of these in the Modified Dadant hive, and 12 in the Buckfast Dadant hive. The frames are spaced wider than Langstroth, on 1 1/2" centers (an important difference).

The Langstroth brood frame is 17 5/8 * 9 1/8 in. Normally used in an 8 or 10 frame configuration. (One of the reasons why the 10 fr. hive became popular is because the 8-fr. had a tendency to tip over.) Frame spacing is 1 3/8" center to center.

The Langstroth Jumbo brood frame is deeper, at 11 1/4", making it similar to the Dadant brood frame, but it retains the narrower spacing." _
BM


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## wbee (Mar 4, 2005)

The "jumbo" went away years ago - it was being phased out when I started as a millwright here back in '79 - I am sure there are several reasons, but from a manufacturing standpoint, the lumber mills standarized on 12" as widest width of 4/4 boards they would produce - 12" wide really is 11 1/4" wide, just as 10" wide is really 9 1/4", etc. So the lumber was no longer available. We also quit making the 11 1/4" frames as there really wasn't a need for those anymore either. I think we sold out any remaining inventory of 11 1/4" end bars about five years ago.

Rick
Western Bee


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

https://secure.thorne.co.uk/cgi-bin...ge&THISPAGE=page10024.html&ORDER_ID=288364937

Toward the bottom of the page.


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## brushmouth (Jan 17, 2010)

bluegrass said:


> https://secure.thorne.co.uk/cgi-bin...ge&THISPAGE=page10024.html&ORDER_ID=288364937
> 
> Toward the bottom of the page.


Ah, that's like $309.00 for 100 frames only with shipping to USA.
I have paypal, how many do you want?....LOL
Seriously, you make a good point, they are in common usage in Europe.

Titebond with an air nailer makes up some nice dadant deep bodies in a flash,
No need for wide boards (which are near impossible to find)
Works great to remove decay and restore bee space as well, on all equipment.

BM


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

If you can send me EXACT specifications for the frames, i can make them for you. I don't like doing it because people send bogus measurements then there's much friction over money spent on a mistake. Plans would be nice too, but you need to measure your hive body (inner and outer dimensions plus dimensions from rabbet to rabbet). If i know how much wood needs to be used, dowels, etc. I can give a quote on how ever many frames you need. I make all my own equipment so making a set of odd sized frames wouldn't be too far out of reach as I'm getting ready to cut pieces for 300 medium Langstroth frames in the next few weeks. I'm located in southern Colorado so you will have to pay whatever ups charges for ground shipping for the weight of the package. 

>>I dont care if the measurements are in metric or U.S. standards so long as they are consistent.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

I dont usually like to question the premise behind a thread but the old "jumbos" havent been marketed for a long time for a pretty good reason. I suppose they might work as a single brood chamber but it wouldnt be easy to handle. One of the big downsides in addition to weight is not many extracting systems can run a frame that deep.


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

ya the correct term should have jumbo. I think everyone should have one and the then they would realize the benefits of 6 5/8 equipment. way too heavy.


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## AR Beekeeper (Sep 25, 2008)

Frames can be made using purchased top bars and making the side bars. Just make a straight side bar and use screweyes to get the spacing you want. I used the 10 and 12 frame boxes for about 10 years and they make very good brood chambers. The frames are not used to extract, just for the brood nest. 

The 10 frame Jumbo box is the most practical since all other components of the hive match Langstroth equipment. The weight of the brood chamber when filled with brood is not much greater than a standard deep, but if it is filled with honey it can go 110 pounds. You want to put them on their winter stands before they fill the brood chamber with winter stores.


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

forgot to add some details about the jumbo hive. bees did not winter in them well. bees cannot go sideways to get to more honey. we had a local guy with 250 hives of jumbos but lost 30-50 % every year. (and that was before mites) he finaly took them to fla. some beekeepers used to bore holes about 1 1/2 inches in combs for sideways movement. there is always a reason things become obsolete.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

beeware10 said:


> bees did not winter in them well. bees cannot go sideways to get to more honey. there is always a reason things become obsolete.


Tell that to my bees. This trailer with six Brother Adam hives, 12 -11 1/4" frame brood chamber, produced 1100 lbs last year. Lucky the tires didn't pop. Second picture - 16 hives with ten frame brood chambers with 11 1/4" deep frames. I have 32 years experience with 11 1/4" frames - and LOVE THEM.


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

the person that started this post is from wi. same as ny. not calif. they may have different types of winter. In warm areas the bees love tall combs but when it get below zero the story changes.


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## WI-beek (Jul 14, 2009)

Jim 134

“ "DADANT DEEP" (AKA) Jumbo are 11 frames 11 3/4" deep. “

Not sure what your point is. If you are trying to correct me you are wrong. I said the box is 11 3/4” deep, not the frames

brushmouth

I have been speaking with someone from Rossmans and apparently they dont know what you do. Its not one of the Rossman's so I will ask her to talk to Ann about it. Thanks for the info.

Rwuster: I might take you up on that. I believe the Frames are the same dimensions other than the end bars. It would probably be a good Idea to make the top bar and end bars a bit thicker though. I would like the dowel or a thin steel rod in them as well.

As far as weight goes you use mediums or shallows for supers. I also dont plan on converting my whole apiaries over to these. Like I said I want to try one for giggles. I would like to have a small living museum of some of the different styles of hives from the years past like the Dadant Deep, Buckfast dadant, Warre hive, some of the brit hives, and I bet I would like the longer lugs the brits use.

Like I said I dont plan on converting my yards to these big beasts and for wintering I would leave a shallow or medium on them. From what I have seen the bees do not move side ways much at all if any. I always see that they do not touch the frames on the sides at all. I think you could just take the frames from outsides of the cluster and move them into a box above and be better off. I also use a hive top feeder and put sugar in it. I dont worry about starvation at all. If they get up that far I can feed them real easy by just popping the inner cover for a few seconds.

Why did this style go with the wind? Im sure many reason but I can think of a few good ones. They had lots of large pine back in the late 1800s and a 1x14 is not cheap now. It took two guys to lug these beasts around. People like standardization these days. Thats why we have one style of hive that dominates 99% of the industry. England has three or four. It seems like every county in Europe has its own styles yet the langstroth we use is in use in every county.

If I did start using the Dadant deep, I dont see much of a difference in the honey supers being the medium depth was used. One more frame is not going to make a huge difference. Not needing two deeps for brood chamber would make a difference though. Who knows, maybe I would fall in love with them. I dont do pollination, (yet) My yards are stationary, and to be honest, shorter hives would be nice. As it is now my hives get pretty tall and that top box can be hard to deal with.

More than anything I just want to play. A dadant deep would be a conversation piece, and something for people to remember when they leave my place.

Oh one last thing, I would not be extracting from the brood chamber so thats not an issue.


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

beeware10 said:


> ya the correct term should have jumbo. I think everyone should have one and the then they would realize the benefits of *6 5/8 equipment*. way too heavy.


 6 5/8 supers are also of Charles Dadant's design, if we are worried about weight and going to discount his deep body, why not discount his super too and run all on shallows for weight sake?



beeware10 said:


> forgot to add some details about the jumbo hive. bees did not winter in them well. bees cannot go sideways to get to more honey. we had a local guy with 250 hives of jumbos but lost 30-50 % every year. (and that was before mites) he finaly took them to fla. some beekeepers used to bore holes about 1 1/2 inches in combs for sideways movement. there is always a reason things become obsolete.





beeware10 said:


> the person that started this post is from wi. same as ny. not calif. they may have different types of winter. In warm areas the bees love tall combs but when it get below zero the story changes.


They are very popular in Great Britain. The fact that Brother Adam used them, and enlarged them successfully contraindicates the above statement about climate conditions. The Abby is a very cold, wet place in the winter, much like NY. 

The only reason they are obsolete here is because the suppliers kowtow to the commercial operations, they are not easy to move all around the country... Great Britain has no fewer than five commercially produced hive variations, National, Commercial, Langstroth, Dadant, 12x14, and a few extra variations of poly hives. Most bee suppliers sell most variations of hives, the variety is used to cater to the needs of the bees being kept, for example, Germans need smaller hives so are most often kept in National or 12x14 hives. 

I hope to see the day that this country moves back towards choices in hives.. You talk to any British beekeeper who has moved here and that is one of their biggest complaints, that they have no choices here.


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## AR Beekeeper (Sep 25, 2008)

The deep frame the Jumbo is based on was develoved first by Moses Quinby, a New York beekeeper. Mr. Quinby was the first commercial beekeeper in the U.S. and I doubt he would have used a frame that would not overwinter well.

In thae 10 years I used the Jumbo frame in 25 hives I did not lose a colony to overwintering problems. I would still use it except it is impossible to sell nucs with frames of that size. Beekeepers now are afraid of having to lift the 65 to 75 pounds a brood chamber would weigh.


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## Rolande (Aug 23, 2010)

WI-beek said:


> I want to try dadant deeps just for giggles. I would make the boxes if I could find frames.


Just in case you missed it, I've sent you a pm!


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## NowThen (Nov 26, 2008)

I have 8 Dadant deeps and couple of bottom boards that were in a batch of used stuff that I bought this summer. They're free for the taking. PM me for directions and details if you're still looking.


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## WI-beek (Jul 14, 2009)

Absolutely $100%, Ill pm you now!


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