# TBH screened bottom boards



## mfisch (Aug 28, 2007)

I have a pair of KTBH with first-year package bees. I've left the bottom boards (with bee excluding hardware cloth above) on until today and cleaned them off every few weeks.

I haven't removed them for a month, but today I checked them and noticed wax moths nesting between the screen and board. I removed the boards and cleaned them disposing of the moths, but elected to keep bottom boards off for now.

Any comments on the increased pest exposure with an open bottom vs exposure from moth larvae?

I know the beekeeper I trained with (langs) said he recently stopped using bottom boards altogether (including winter) except for 3-day mite-checking periods. This was an effort to reduce mite levels, and seems to work well (even after factoring in its detriments).

Comments there?

Thanks in advance,
Matt


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## buckbee (Dec 2, 2004)

I have one hive with no bottom at all - see 
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7690446915686538155&hl=en

I have one with a solid floor, which has produced the most harvestable honey so far this season (by which I mean combs with mostly honey and no brood) and another four with mesh floors, including one Warré. They are all doing ok, considering the cold, wet spring and even wetter summer we are having. They still have time to make up stores for winter, as we usually have a late flow of Himalayan Balsam [who said it was a useless invader] and ivy). 

I don't have enough of either type to say for sure than one is better than another - and I think it will be largely down to local conditions and strain of bee.


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## mfisch (Aug 28, 2007)

buckbee said:


> I have one hive with no bottom at all - see
> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7690446915686538155&hl=en
> 
> I have one with a solid floor, which has produced the most harvestable honey so far this season (by which I mean combs with mostly honey and no brood) and another four with mesh floors, including one Warré. They are all doing ok, considering the cold, wet spring and even wetter summer we are having. They still have time to make up stores for winter, as we usually have a late flow of Himalayan Balsam [who said it was a useless invader] and ivy).
> ...


Interesting video, I suppose I won't worry about them keeping the hive cool with the bottom off then. No problems from mice or other pests with exposed comb?

Also, when is your first/last frost and how much snow do you see during winter? If that hive was here the snow would easily fill under/inside the hive and possibly even cover the "upper" end entrance.

-Matt

ps. On an unrelated topic. I started my bees from package late this year in mid-May. Since they're imports from the southern states they are not naturalized to my area (I may try requeening at least one in spring). First frost could be the first week of october but I have not had any harvestable combs built yet, I've been trying to steer their growth into the brood nest -- is there a certain point at which I should ensure they start building stores or should I let them do what they will? As far as available forage, obviously this depends on weather but it should be available until first frost with limited forage afterward.


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## buckbee (Dec 2, 2004)

mfisch said:


> Interesting video, I suppose I won't worry about them keeping the hive cool with the bottom off then. No problems from mice or other pests with exposed comb?


There is nowhere for mice to go! they would have to climb right into the middle of a mass of bees, with no floor to stand on... they are only a nuisance here in winter, when they try to nest in hives. No floor=no nest!



> Also, when is your first/last frost and how much snow do you see during winter? If that hive was here the snow would easily fill under/inside the hive and possibly even cover the "upper" end entrance.


We don't usually get frost until late Oct/Nov and rarely after March - although we had a late one this year that killed the plum blossom. Snow - hardly at all.

I wouldn't necessarily recommend bottomless beekeeping for all climates - it's just an experiment to see how 'minimal' I can get...




> First frost could be the first week of october but I have not had any harvestable combs built yet, I've been trying to steer their growth into the brood nest -- is there a certain point at which I should ensure they start building stores or should I let them do what they will? As far as available forage, obviously this depends on weather but it should be available until first frost with limited forage afterward.


It's hard to say how quickly package bees adapt themselves to a locality. Can they do it in a single season? Does it take several? I really don't know. My guess is that they will sense the shortening days and will make preparations for winter - but how would they know about 'winter' when they have not experienced such a thing for - who knows how many - generations? 

I think you would be wise to be prepared to feed them in September if they are showing no serious signs of building up their stores. In any case, I would not expect to harvest honey in their first season.


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## mfisch (Aug 28, 2007)

buckbee said:


> I think you would be wise to be prepared to feed them in September if they are showing no serious signs of building up their stores. In any case, I would not expect to harvest honey in their first season.


I've been feeding continually since I hived them in mid-May and plan to continue for this first season. I won't harvest unless the unlikely event of running out of room occurs.

Thanks for your thoughts,
-Matt


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## mistergil (May 24, 2007)

It's unlikely that they need such continued feeding. If they are not taking it I would stop until fall and re-evaluate at that time deciding if they have sufficient wintering stores or if feeding is necessary at that time. If they are building or have built up already, and they should have by now some stores available, if not then continue feeding but it should soon be unnecessary.


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## mfisch (Aug 28, 2007)

mistergil said:


> It's unlikely that they need such continued feeding. If they are not taking it I would stop until fall and re-evaluate at that time deciding if they have sufficient wintering stores or if feeding is necessary at that time. If they are building or have built up already, and they should have by now some stores available, if not then continue feeding but it should soon be unnecessary.


They have a little bit of honey mixed into their brood nest but no honey combs yet, I've been directing their full energies into increasing the brood nest size (though thats largely finished). They've been taking it all along really, until now -- its been a bad year here for flow.

Noted however, if they don't take any this week I'll discontinue until forage is gone/slowing. It may be that the flow hasn't picked up until just now and I'm correlating that with the baggie/jar change.


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## livetrappingbymatt (Jan 13, 2006)

*mfisch*

Are these of russian linage? I was once told to feed russian stock to help build also feed pollen .Hopefully we will get a good golden rod flow for winter stores?
bob


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## mfisch (Aug 28, 2007)

livetrappingbymatt said:


> Are these of russian linage? I was once told to feed russian stock to help build also feed pollen .Hopefully we will get a good golden rod flow for winter stores?
> bob


They're Carnolians, thats the only package bee available from my distributor. Replacement queens were available however I was advised instead to consider requeening in spring. I think I'll do so and hope they raise a new one from more naturalized stock.

I know feeding pollen would probably speed brood growth however I avoided this because neither the synthetics or real pollen from an unknown source seemed attractive. Next year after these packages are more established (assuming they survive) I'll harvest my own pollen for use inhouse.


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## space bee (Jan 16, 2006)

I thought Carniolans as a breed do well in colder climates? The package may have been raised in the south somewhere, but as a breed they should do well up here?


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## mfisch (Aug 28, 2007)

They may be naturalized to a climate colder than Georgia, but the last hundred generations have been selected in a warm climate. In addition, the Russians winter much better.

We'll see how they do however, they have a good chance if I can keep their mites down I hope. So far mite levels are low, I'll have to figure out an IPM treatment this summer/fall anyway..


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