# Minimum number of bars of bees for a new colony to form?



## Bunyabees (May 17, 2017)

One of my top bar hives threw a small swarm last weekend after I ended up with more than 1 queen in the hive after a failed queen replacement (they made queen cells after the failed replacement). I caught the swarm (my first) and but in a makeshift hive with top bars as the roof (no drawn comb). The bees swarmed again the next day. I caught them again but this time put a frame of drawn comb with uncapped brood into the makeshift hive and also caged the queen with a relatively shallow candy plug. As the swarm was quite small, there aren't really enough bees in there at present to do anything more than cover the 1 frame of drawn comb. They are no festooning on any other bar - though did draw a bit of way in the couple of days they were releasing the queen - drawn right next to the queen cage. This drawn comb is very minimal - like the size of a match-box or two.

I'm happy enough to slow build this colony as I don't even have a proper hive to put them in at this point. I don't want to weaken my other hives (I have two - one which they swarmed from and therefore also has a new queen from the same process of queen cell making. I also have a top bar nuc with about 8 drawn bars in it). My question therefore is what would be the minimum number of frames of say capped brood or uncapped brood with attendants that I'd need to put in my makeshift swarm hive to enable the colony to survive and slowly expand. I live in Queensland, Australia and there is plenty of forage around at present and I expect this will continue for at leave a few months. I am hoping I can just put one or max two more bars of drawn comb in. Any more is likely to set me back elsewhere given one of the main hives has a new queen and will have has no new bees being produced for a period of 5 or so weeks. Also my other full hive is not honey bound as such, but the brood area is certainly affected by the fact that there has been a strong flow on and the bees seem to be taking the opportunity to fill much of the old and new comb with honey.

Thanks for your help.


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

This tiny colony may try to limp along during your summer, but it will never be ready in time for winter. Even if you gave them drawn but empty comb, the queen will still only lay a little patch of brood at a time so that the workers can keep up with them. If you can afford to give them an entire frame of capped, ready to emerge brood and continuously offer them syrup (because they can't afford to send out foragers who are doing hive-duty), you might end up with a 5 frame colony that can survive the winter.


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## Bunyabees (May 17, 2017)

Thanks Ruth - will do that. Thankfully our winters are mild and generally there is forage around throughout. Cheers


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## AvatarDad (Mar 31, 2016)

I did something very similar to what Ruth describes with a little grapefruit sized swarm last year. They couldn't even cover a single frame. I gave them a smallish frame of emerging brood (what I felt they could cover) and gave them a couple of weeks to stabilize, and then gave another bigger frame. They were still small, but covered about 4 or 5 frames and have thus far survived a really cold winter. (I gave them a full frame of capped honey as well).


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## Bunyabees (May 17, 2017)

Went through the hive that this little swarm came from today. Didn't spot the queen, but plenty of eggs and larvae is good patterns so looks to be a decent queen. Didn't want to pull any brood out of that hive while they are still recovering, so pulled a frame out of the top bar nuc I have. It has some capped and some uncapped brood on it. Bees came with it, but not sure that some of them aren't foragers so those may just return to the hive. Will see how it goes and put another frame in on next inspection if I think necessary. Cheers


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## shannonswyatt (May 7, 2012)

Good luck! I have had decent results with small late swarms making it through the winter. Keep the entrance small, don't give them much extra comb if they don't get robbed out they may make it.


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## Bunyabees (May 17, 2017)

Had a look at the swarm box today and found that the bees have left again, only bees let being very young ones. Colony was there yesterday morning, so must have buggered off sometime during the day yesterday (Monday). Had a look around and couldn't see them, so have given them up. I don't reckon they'll survive without help due to the size - though the swarm is a bit bigger than it was thanks to the bees on the frame I put in Sunday. Have put the two drawn frames back into one of my hives - though the young brood will likely be dessicated, having just been left by the colony.

In one way I am not all that unhappy as it was going to be a pain to raise this swarm due to its size, but on the other hand I am disappointed to have lost the queen. I did the sums the other day and while I originally thought the hive these swarmed from had created queen cells after they killed the bought queen I had introduced, I now think that they produced the cells despite the queen being alive, meaning that the queen I bought may well have been the one that I had in this swarm :-(.

It was only this morning I got around to making up some syrup to put in the box - it was when I went to put it in I found the swarm gone. If I'd done this on Sunday maybe they'd have stayed. Oh well - can't change that now.


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