# crazy ideal for a teranov split from a warre?



## crofter (May 5, 2011)

gww said:


> I was just curious if it sounds crazy if a guy used a blower to shake the bees from a warre hive in an attempt to create a teranov split. Say if you wanted to get the nurse bees and queen from the warre to start a lang hive or top bar. I built a warre hive and am thinking of how to use it in the future if I don't build more of them.
> Just playing.
> gww


I know squat about a warre hive but have used the Taranov idea several times because of difficulty in find my dark queens. That principle works on Langs; but I would be concerned that the queen would find a hidy hole somewhere out of the air blast and not be swept out along with the bees. I have seen queens run into drone comb mazes and need really concentrated smoking to flush them out.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Crofter
I thought a bit about that and thought of maby two ways to counter it. One would be to get an excluder and smoke the queen down and find her and the other would be just to add a lang frame of open brood and let the nurse bees make a queen.

I really thank you for your comments. I do think on the langs that shaking the bees and probly getting the queen is a much more strait forward proposition. I just sort got hooked on the warre might be easier to build then my langs and so built one to see. It was still hard. I built two long langs for the same reason. I did this year, after seeing capped brood, really not inspect my hives except to pop the top and see if I needed to add space and watched the entrance and lifted the hive for weight. I figure the fixed comb might not be that bigg of an issue if I didn't care if I lost the hive cause I couldn't share resources from other hives if needed. I am sorta doing that with langs but haven't run into a problim that I noticed where it would make a difference. In the end except for not having to build frames, the construction still took a lot of resources and so I will probly make more langs. I may use the one I got though and it is fun to plan for its use even if I never do.
Thanks
gww


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

I dont know whether you will be able to situate the lang frame for enough isolation to induce cell starting in the warre. With the Snelgrove boards in Lang hives, it works like magic! I ran 6 hives that way till past swarm season and requeened all hives and started at least 3 new nucs.

I have used both the taranov swarm and shaking through an excluder to draw off queens from hives I wanted to requeen. Some I just pulled the board and combined the two colonies and took the odds that the daughter took the throne.

it is fun playing games with the bees when it is entertainment and not to pay the rent or fill your rice bowl.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Crofter


> I dont know whether you will be able to situate the lang frame for enough isolation to induce cell starting in the warre. With the Snelgrove boards in Lang hives, it works like magic! I ran 6 hives that way till past swarm season and requeened all hives and started at least 3 new nucs.


I am new enough that some of what you wrote is still confusing to me. Where you talk about situating the lang frame: I was thinking that if I wanted bees from the warre to the lang, that I could just take one frame of open brood and put in a lang and then blow the bees out of the warre on a sheet over a ramp that ended up right above the frame of brood in an empty lang box. Am I missing something here?

As far as using a snelgrass board in a lang. Would just keeping the queen below an excluder and moving the brood above make the bees make some queen cells? Or if you put a honey super on the excluder and then some brood? 

I would like to make a little money but the only way I see me doing that is by putting up an honor stand at the end of my drive cause I am to much of a hermit to get to selling stuff. I retired a couple of years ago and got enough to by rice without the bees but not enough to spend a lot on bees so it would be nice to get a little funny money to throw at the wife or at least make my hoby not cost me anything. I don't want another full time job though.

Mostly I thought if I caught a swarm, I might throw it in the warre and if they did ok with not much oversite, I thought I might drain some bees off it. I like the langs but it take me a day to build 20 frames from scratch and I am refusing to buy anything untill I make enough from the bees to do the buying with. I will be surprized if what I have makes it through winter and then it they don't swarm in spring due to having no real amount of drawn comb.

I am not saying I am smart but I have 20 acres and I sorta enjoy having small things to do in the garage and so I keep building stuff. I don't do it like a production line but more as one off stuff which is why even building for two winters, I only have about 5 hives worth of stuff not counting the long hives and warre and about 14 traps and maby 3 three high nucs. I only have three hives worth of bees but will probly be building more stuff this winter cause it give me an excuse that is a tiny bit productive to be in the garage and out of the house and away from the easy chair. I am not good at building and not good at bee keeping but sorta just keep pegging away. I want more but my biggest goal is to not ever buy bees again. I bought one hive and traped three swarms and I don't need a lot of bees but I don't want to buy stuff period. However. I have places for them to go if I catch a swarm or actually have enough to make a split. The learning is fun too.
Thanks for your responce.
gww


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

I have always placed two medium supers above the excluder and then the frames with eggs and open brood and they build cells right away. You do need flow going on or feed. I think if there is only one or no supers between the excluded queen and the frame with brood, then they are less likely to start cells.

You are lucky to be in an area where you can catch swarms. There is zero chance of that here. I threw a fair bit of money at bees to get started but now it is a paying hobby. Once you get to reliably keeping them alive and dont keep buying more equipment the cost can be pretty cheap. I wish I had started a whole lot younger. 

Keep having fun!


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

crofter
I really have no way of counting what my stuff cost but I built my own saw mill and it isn't free for blades and going to get the logs and a chain on the chainsaw and such. I have no way to really add it up but mostly just consider it free wood with just a whole bunch of labor. I finaly did buy a smoker and finaly bought some screws but mostly just have lots and lots of hours in it. I don't really even check my traps, they are where I go naturally sometimes or a couple are at relitives houses and they look. Trapping is not a sure thing here either. I had 12 traps out the first year and got nothing and 16 out this year and got 3. Two of them were in traps that didn't catch the year before and I really hadn't taken them down and just added in march some new lemon grass oil. I may never catch another swarm cause that is a lot of traps if you add it up. It was exciting though.

Thank you for telling me what works for you. I do have that one question that I wonder if you have a veiw on. If I had a super with just one frame of open brood and the rest foundationless and I added a bunch of nurse bees, would they make a queen?
I am just wondering what you think on this not trying to wear out my welcome. 
Thanks
gww


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Probably possible but it would be contrary to all recommendations for making a queen. Lots of bees all ages, plenty of stores, honey, pollen and bee bread.

There has to be enough bees for temperature and humidity control, guard duty as well as comb building and brood rearing. Putting them atop an existing hive would help with the air conditioning, but in your area robbing might wipe them out. 

It would take at least a month to get a queen laying and another month before any of her offspring would be much contribution to the colony.

Just to hold a laying queen I have put her in a nuc with one frame and a shake of bees but they have a hard time to expand beyond that one frame: something about critical mass!


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Crofter
Ok, You have clairified my fuzzy thinking and I believe I have it. The reason a teranov split works so well comes down to being moved with a laying queen.

Thanks for takeing the time. If I can retain and not get confused (my normal state) by other things I read. I should have known some of the points you mentioned but sometimes I get single minded.

Thanks
gww


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