# Good Comb Guides, or Good Waste of Time?



## Beregondo (Jun 21, 2011)

That'll probably work OK, but without a guide strip, I'd be sure to straighten those two crooked pieces.

It looks like you don't mind doing a little saw or router work, judging form your top bars. That being the case, it's be less work to cut the bars with a full length "peak" down the middle ( so the cross section of the bar is 5 sided adn shaped like home plate). the bees will festoon off of the tip of that peak and make straight comb w/o adding anything to the top bar.


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## robherc (Mar 17, 2012)

Beregondo said:


> It looks like you don't mind doing a little saw or router work... <snip> ...cut the bars with a full length "peak" down the middle ( so the cross section of the bar is 5 sided and shaped like home plate).


I make them with a circular saw, band saw, and drill (drill 1/8" pilot holes for the "bee slots")...unfortunately, with the bars having a cross-section of 3/4"x1-1/4" and neither saw allowing more than 45 degrees of tilt, the best I could to is make a sloppy "D" cross-section, and from what I've read, that prob. wouldn't help much.
That said, I did take some 3/4"x1/16" strips that were left over from milling the bars & glue them into center-cut 1/4" deep grooves on another set of top bars, gonna try a comparison between the two (if I can get some bees to stick around for long enough). Also, I tried a few diff. camera angles; I swear the comb chunks are all lined up straight on the bars (I lined 'em up using the center "rib" in the combs), but the camera refused to do my hard work lining 'em up any justice....lol


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## robherc (Mar 17, 2012)

on 2nd thought, maybe I _could_ make a "jig" for the band saw to cut a shallower angle...cut a larger piece of wood at 30-45 degrees, clamp it to the table, then use that to mill the "home plate" shaped top bars..... maybe I'll give that a try in a couple days. (oh, and I REALLY need to get my router working again...those bars are costing me about 5-7minutes EACH for milling+slotting right now)


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Using existing comb for a guide is the traditional method used since at least Huber's time and it seemed to have been around long before then.

http://www.bushfarms.com/images/HuberHive1.jpg


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## robherc (Mar 17, 2012)

so, being a "traditional method" does it work as well as, better than, or worse than a "sharp edge" comb guide? (I was pretty sure there was "no way" someone hadn't tried this before...  )


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

I built my top bars with a piece of wood cut off the corner of a 1"x4" (actual thickness 3/4") at a 45 degree angle. So the cut piece is a triangle about 1" on the cut side and 3/4" x 3/4" on the original sides. I then glued those triangles onto the bottom of my flat top bars.

I installed two packages into TBHs about 10 days ago, and both are doing just great with those triangular comb guides. After 9 days each had 6-7 bars about half to 3/4 complete with straight comb. Small attachments to the sidewalls in just a couple of places.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>so, being a "traditional method" does it work as well as, better than, or worse than a "sharp edge" comb guide?

It is more work, and it is not as durable but it works great if you run it the full length of the bars.


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## Delta Bay (Dec 4, 2009)

I would go with a full length guide of some sort over what you have. Your bees could very easily veer off course and join up with one of the comb pieces on another bar. If that happens you will wish you had done things differently. Give your bees the best opportunity to build their combs where you want them.


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## robherc (Mar 17, 2012)

Delta Bay said:


> Your bees could very easily veer off course and join up with one of the comb pieces on another bar. If that happens you will wish you had done things differently.


Very true...so, now that I already have bees on those bars (just did another cut-out last night) I guess I'll have to settle for hoping you DO NOT get proven right on this one; for my own sake. 
....and if your somewhat dismal prediction gets proven true, then I'll have learned a very hard to forget lesson, once I get done cleaning the mess up.


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## Adam Foster Collins (Nov 4, 2009)

It may work, and there's no harm in trying.

But I'd just build bars with guides. That means after you rip off comb for crush-and-strain, or after you have an unfortunate comb collapse along the way during the season, you can just replace the clean bar, and you don't have to go gluing more bits of comb on.

Adam


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## Delta Bay (Dec 4, 2009)

> (just did another cut-out last night)


That's another story if you attached the cutout combs onto individual bars. The bees will build new combs to match the cutout combs orientation. It's more about getting the first few combs built along the center of the bars. Once you have one good comb you can pretty much use any of the guides or even no guide. So you should be good to go now.

It wasn't a prediction. It was meant to be helpful so you could make your own decision to either hope for the best or expect the best result.


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## robherc (Mar 17, 2012)

Yes, I understand, and you have valid points, but I'm *trying* (i.e. something other than *succeeding*) to go more "organic" here. I already use bits of epoxy to hold the corners of the boxes together, but I'm trying to find ways to guide the bees to build straight comb without resorting to putting the epoxy on the bars (to glue on comb guides).
I'd prob. make everything a bit easier, however, if I just stopped being such a penny-pincher and just cut the bars 1.5" thick, instead of 0.75" thick, then trimmed the center portion down to a comb guide, and the ends down to 0.75" so they'll sit right on my frame rests...DOH! :doh: (duh on me there...lol)


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## Terra Vita (Mar 4, 2012)

Interesting top bars! I assumed I was the first to think of having the bees go through the top bars down "in the hive". Is this method used elsewhere?

I guess you have some kind of top cover over the bars also?

Haha just noticed I'm not helping you out much I'm just asking questions..


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## robherc (Mar 17, 2012)

Terra Vita said:


> Interesting top bars! I assumed I was the first to think of having the bees go through the top bars down "in the hive". Is this method used elsewhere?


IDK, I kinda copied that part of the idea off of you. 
Actually, I was working on a total redesign of all my TBH equipment, wanted to make it at least marginally compatible with Langstroth equipment so I'd be able to use more of the parts/experience from more experienced beeks around me (haven't met and TBH beeks in my area yet). I saw your hive while I was working on the redesign & it got me thinking about combatibility with the bee-space between top bars on a Lang. frame; so I downloaded the "Dadant Type Frames" PDF pattern from the Build it Yourself section on this site & used that for coming up with the dimensions of my top bars (that's why the "bee slots" I cut in the edges of the bars start 1" from the ends, to match up with the spacing of the end bars of those frames). One caveat: I still need to shave about 1/4" off the bottoms of my bars @ either end to be 100% compatible with the template, oops.



> I guess you have some kind of top cover over the bars also?


The "ceiling" of my hive is made of 3/8" ply, and it sits right at 3/8" over the tops of the bars; then I'm installing a "roof" over that, made out of 1/4" ply & painted to be weathertight; mounted on triangular "trusses" to make a "peaked roof" with a ventilated airspace to insulate the bees from most of the sun's heat down here.



> Haha just noticed I'm not helping you out much I'm just asking questions..


lol, that's fine...answering questions gives me some more time to think over what I'm planning to do, and what I've done; to check & double-check myself & maybe notice something I'd otherwise have messed up


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## Terra Vita (Mar 4, 2012)

Great to hear it inspired someone  also I keep noticing you have a more "organic" way so for your insulated roof check out my post again, I added pictures of what I did instead of a bulky insulated blanket that would need to be moved all the time. note that hemp fabric is pretty expensive it was 29$ a meter I believe which adds up quickly. but I only had the one hive so I don't mind.

Good luck Rob

Sincerely, 
Tommy
Terra Vita


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