# Opinions, please....



## kopelia (Jul 4, 2013)

Ok, so I have given up on this "bee expert" because all he does is come and look at the wall, then tell me not to worry he will fix it. And then leaves. I am about to attempt some sort of trapout using plastic bags and a ton of duct tape. Now the question lies, and this is sort of crucial. It's 11am here in florida and it's a nice mild day in the mid 80's. Do I start now? Or at dusk when the bees are all back? Also do I try and cut out some comb to put in the box as it is exposed anyway? It just feels like the perfect day to do it as we've had so much rain recently. The bees seem to be out foraging at the moment, and there are not many bees in the wall just the ones covering thte comb like in the pictures I posted previously. Argh! Why didn't I listen to my gut (and about 20 experts) ad do the Hogan Method from the beginning??? I had a perfect plan to cap off the wall and get those bees right into the box! Live n learn, the hard way....I admit it, guys I should have listened to you. Please help me save this mess this supposed "expert" has created. Thanks for being so inviting and free with your advice from the moment I joined.


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## bevy's honeybees (Apr 21, 2011)

I didn't read your first posts so I'm jumping in blind. Do you have protection? No kind of screening you can use? Making a cone without a shape of some kind is going to be tough, I would think. If you can post a link to your original post, that will help. I have a Hogan harvester which makes the job so much easier, but I don't know your situation.


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## kopelia (Jul 4, 2013)

I do have a veil and a hat, I've been wearing one of my dad's long sleeved shirts and welding gloves from his repair shop. Here's a link to the first thread : http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?286011-I-need-advice-for-transferring-feral-bees


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## bevy's honeybees (Apr 21, 2011)

That is some hive! With all that opened up, I don't know what to offer here. You were thinking close it back up with plastic and tape? Sounds like a lot of work but yes to get it back to a top entrance only, might be the only way. 

I wish I could help more, like if you weren't 2+ hrs away I'd come and try to help. At this point, if you could get them to start building in your box to get a starter hive off the original, that's what I would do. 

If you are closing off all those openings, this is the best time of day. Do you have a smoker, or a can of some sort you can start a smoker to keep handy? Putting some comb in your box again is a good idea, especially if you can get to some brood comb.

Cleo is the expert, and if anyone near you other than the first guy that worked with you, would be great. 
Sorry I don't have more to offer.


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## kopelia (Jul 4, 2013)

Thanks so much for the offer, but yes that is the general plan, get all those openings closed up and put some sort of mesh cone on the top. I do have a smoker so i could try and get the bees off that comb that is exposed and easy to get to. Problem is all the bees covering it!! What this man did was place a frame with the wax already on it painted with water and honey at the top of the hive, the then smoked the hive from the bottom using the smaller holes. The bees went up and out onto the frames and he shook the bees off into the box. But he left the box open and did not put any of the comb he removed into the box. My dad ate the honey...I was so angry. I'm just going to do what I can and hope for the best.


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## kopelia (Jul 4, 2013)

Ok, I am beyond aggrivated at this point. The old man showed up just as I came back from getting a few supplies. He goes in back says the now classic line "the weather is bad for the bees to move them" and promises me he will fix it this week. I really don't know what to do. I have a respect for this man's knowledge, but this is crazy. I wish I could just say thanks but no thanks, but this guy is a good friend of my father's and also a very old client so I have to tread carefully.


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## disc999golfer999 (Jun 9, 2013)

Tread carefully. But at the same time go like GangBusters after those bees.
You can try and split the hive into 2. Do this by getting as much brood and bees as you can into a 1st hivebox. Then order a queen cause you probably won't get her since she likes to hide deep down in the hive away from everything.

Your client may be just trying to be polite. He may be trying to be helpful, but he doesn't really want to be a big bart of this project. Plus if he has been doing bees for 20 years he may not be as facinated with the process as you are. I would sieze the opportunity to get those bees and if he asks why you didn't wait for him just say something like "I was trying to sieze the initiative to show that I am a go-getter"! Then thank him all over the place for the advice that he gave. "You are right those cloudy days were bad for the bees, but today when the sun poked it's head out the bees looked like they were trying to find the moving van! (chuckle) then show a photo of all the bees marching from the cement wall into your hive body!

Good Luck! Any new photos?


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## kopelia (Jul 4, 2013)

No new photos except for the ones I posted before. I was thinking the same thing. Get as many bees out and get em a queen as soon as possible and perhaps just keep harvesting bees from the wall? I'm off on Thursday so let's pray to the weather gods that they cooperate and I have a nice sunny day to get this done. I'll post pics of my progress and keep you all updated. Thanks again for all the advice guys, I really appreciate it.

And it is a tread carefully sort of situation. I'm dealing with an old school Greek man with many, many years of experience (this was his lively hood at one point), and if you've never dealt with a Mediterranean man before god bless you. LOL


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## kopelia (Jul 4, 2013)

And just my luck, almost everywhere has stopped shipping queens for this year....ARGH!!!


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## DPBsbees (Apr 14, 2011)

Why not try Florida Queen Bees in the "for sale" forum. I would expect them to still have some this time of year.


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## kopelia (Jul 4, 2013)

Lol...great idea. Bees from fla and not across the country! Thank goodness I saw this before I ordered a queen from Iowa!!


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## disc999golfer999 (Jun 9, 2013)

Do you know what variety bees you have? I wonder how much of a difference it makes if your stock of bees (the ones you are migrating out of the wall) are Carniolan's and you order an Italian queen.
Are the workers more likely to reject a queen who is not of their same subspecies?

Apis mellifera carnica, the Carniolan honeybee,
Apis mellifera caucasica, the Caucasian honeybee
Apis mellifera ligustica is the Italian bee
Apis mellifera scutellata is the the African "Killer" bee


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

kopelia said:


> And just my luck, almost everywhere has stopped shipping queens for this year....ARGH!!!


Kelly always has queens until some time in September.

cchoganjr


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## kopelia (Jul 4, 2013)

I don't know what type of bees they are. Can anyone tell from the pics I posted? Link is posted above...


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## kopelia (Jul 4, 2013)

Thank you sir...I shall check them out.


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## woodstock22 (Jun 28, 2013)

If it were me in your shoes, I would get a mason's chisel and a hammer.... and take that wall apart like it was made of legos. Get some brood in your hive that way.


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## kopelia (Jul 4, 2013)

I'm going to have to I think. I have permission from my dad to do what it takes to get the bees. Too bad they took up residence in the wall that contains the used motor oil tank. Ugh


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## kopelia (Jul 4, 2013)

Omg...so the guy shows up today while I'm at work and starts tearing apart the wall and taking comb out. Most of it was old according to him and the bees were starving. Well as he was working....all the bees LEFT! The man felt so bad he's going to buy me a nuc of bees and help me start from scratch. I don't know if he put comb in the box or not. My dad didn't say. He did say that in the evening a few bees had returned. Is it too late to go check the wall?


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## bevy's honeybees (Apr 21, 2011)

That is terrible! There is a chance they will come back. I once did a cut out, brought the bees to the new yard, and they flew away before I even moved the box. There's alot more to the story but enough for now. I put the box there anyway, with it's comb, and when I went back 2 days later bees were in the box which I always assumed it was the same colony.

Definitley leave the box, they might come back. They are nearby somewhere. Can you check in the morning?

I'm going to be over in your area in September. Michael Bush is speaking on Sept 7th for the West Palm Beach Beekeepers Association. Then we are spending a few days in the area. 
If there's anything I can do to help at that time, let me know.


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## kopelia (Jul 4, 2013)

bevy's honeybees said:


> That is terrible! There is a chance they will come back. I once did a cut out, brought the bees to the new yard, and they flew away before I even moved the box. There's alot more to the story but enough for now. I put the box there anyway, with it's comb, and when I went back 2 days later bees were in the box which I always assumed it was the same colony.
> 
> Definitley leave the box, they might come back. They are nearby somewhere. Can you check in the morning?
> 
> ...


I am certainly going back in the morning. Hopefully the bees returned to the box. He left it out there hoping that the bees might return. I may take you up on your offer if I still need help or even just to talk bees


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## kopelia (Jul 4, 2013)

So I went there this morning to survey the damages. The wall was broken apart, and the comb inside was very dark brown. The old guy was there and he told me that the comb was at least three years old. The queen was old and dying and therefore not laying strong enough brood to make a new queen. There was hardly any honey or even brood in the comb. Maybe 30 cells were full. Also there was not as much comb as I thought. On the phone so I'll have to post pics later. The man was so sweet....he felt so bad he said he'd buy me a nuc so I can start from scratch.  And at least we got a little bit of honey out of the deal.


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## kopelia (Jul 4, 2013)

All of the things I said about the queen, brood health ect...was according to the man. Just fyi


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## bevy's honeybees (Apr 21, 2011)

You could use some of that old comb and your hive for a bait box? Your frames have foundation, do you have any foundationless? 

Florida has another swarm season in September/October. If you are interested in setting one up you can do a search on it here, or pm me. I use hive boxes for baits--I got 5 swarms this past spring and it's my second year for bait boxes. Last year I got 5 I think. That's the best way for free bees because they generally don't leave once they move in.


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## burns375 (Jul 15, 2013)

bevy's honeybees said:


> You could use some of that old comb and your hive for a bait box


Do you have problems with wax moth infesting those bait boxes with old brood comb inside?


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## kopelia (Jul 4, 2013)

bevy's honeybees said:


> You could use some of that old comb and your hive for a bait box? Your frames have foundation, do you have any foundationless?
> 
> Florida has another swarm season in September/October. If you are interested in setting one up you can do a search on it here, or pm me. I use hive boxes for baits--I got 5 swarms this past spring and it's my second year for bait boxes. Last year I got 5 I think. That's the best way for free bees because they generally don't leave once they move in.


The foundations pop out so I do have some that are empty. I tried to put the old comb in the box at one point but it got infested with ants so I removed it. I put the comb inside my office at my dads place where this is all going down and I called him this am and he said the man took it. I at least wanted to save a little piece or make a candle just to remember my first bee experience. But no...the dude took my wax. I'm so sad


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## kopelia (Jul 4, 2013)

Oh and I'd love to play bees with you bevy! I'd love to learn from a fellow Florida beekeeper


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## kopelia (Jul 4, 2013)

Ok, so here's all the empty comb that came from the wall...anything that had honey in it was about the size of the largest piece total and was not completely full. But that's where it ends...a pile of smashed cinderblocks, a bit of old comb and some honey. Just thought I'd share...


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## DarkWolf (Feb 20, 2013)

So did you move the bees into a hive body? Did you save as much of the brood comb as possible and put it into the new hive? Are you feeding 1:1 syrup? May have missed that, as I didn't re-read the past replies.


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## kopelia (Jul 4, 2013)

DarkWolf said:


> So did you move the bees into a hive body? Did you save as much of the brood comb as possible and put it into the new hive? Are you feeding 1:1 syrup? May have missed that, as I didn't re-read the past replies.


The bees left....a few confused stragglers were still trying to feed the brood inside the comb. But then the man took the comb while I was gone so I don't know what to do now. I was at least going to make a candle from the wax but I can't even do that now. I'm so pissed


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## buckhorn (Oct 25, 2012)

Bad experience with an equally bad beekeeper. Most of relish helping those that show interest how to get started and helping with that start. Normally it takes about 2 years to experience the majority of the ups and downs of beekeeping but the first year with a good beekeeper helping you a good start can be made in a year but it seems I learned twice as much the second year as I did the first. Then you just keep learning. My suggestion is to find out if there is a beekeeping club around you and when it meets then go and meet people that are real interested in helping you. Almost everyone there will be glad to see you at the meeting and willing to give you advise. A year from now you will have honey and wax. You will get stung by the bees but that is much better than getting stung by a bad bee keeper. There are some great guys and gals out there. With any luck they might help you start a nuc that you can start your new "HOBBY"

Don't give up! At the least stay in the forum and learn and then in the spring buy a package of bees but still look for a local mentor. I'm in Texas but I'm there online if you need me! Once you start you will be amazed at what they can do and how really easy it is to do this. Until you are up to 15, 20 or more anyway!!! )


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## kopelia (Jul 4, 2013)

Thanks...I won't give up. It wasn't the man's fault I don't think. The bees just left as he was trying to get them in the box. He did offer to buy me a nuc and help me start from scratch. He's an old Greek guy and there are just cultural differences to consider. He didn't want me to get stung while he was moving the bees. That's why he did it while I was away. He nearly had tears in his eyes when I went to see what happened. I really don't blame him. I'm going to stick around and learn as much as possible. I didn't expect it to be easy and it seems that once you think you have it figured out, you don't. Lol thanks again everyone for all the help and advice. See you on the forum!!


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## DarkWolf (Feb 20, 2013)

kopelia said:


> The bees left....


Bummer.. Sorry to hear. Not surprised they absconded though. 

Still have the hive body though and some tiny comb bits? Toss them to the side for next season and see about catching a swarm. Can easily whip up a few 5 frame swarm traps and then bait with a little bit of old comb and some lemon grass oil. 

I found that beekeeping (and the wanting to) runs several years before you even get a start. Took me 3 years to ramp up to it and get bees. 

BTW, how old are you, if you don't mind me asking. Not that it matters in the long run, but am curious. 

Good luck in future endeavors!


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## kopelia (Jul 4, 2013)

I have the hive box a queen excluder and another super to go on top. I'm all set for bees, just gotta get em! Debating saving the comb since its so old and brown. Will it go bad with no bees to take care of it?


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## DarkWolf (Feb 20, 2013)

I'd save some of it and toss it in a gallon freezer bag in the freezer for a few days. Then you can remove it and toss the bag in a cool place to stay until next season. You could use lemon grass oil alone in swarm traps, but old comb is also a nice draw and will aid in attracting a swarm.


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## kopelia (Jul 4, 2013)

I think I won't be able to save it. The largest piece has brood in it!! Will this affect future use? Or shall I just make some nice dark brown candles and be done with it and start from scratch?


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## buckhorn (Oct 25, 2012)

Check your messages on the forum message center.


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## bevy's honeybees (Apr 21, 2011)

I hope he keeps his word about getting you a nuk of bees. Did he say he would bring you 5 frames of bees with queen and install in your hive? 
Well if you do not have bees by September, I will bring you some to install into your box on September 6th if you want. Or I can bring comb and lemongrass oil and get you set up with a bait box--having a swarm move in on its own is awesome. Please keep in touch with me. 
Beverly


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## kopelia (Jul 4, 2013)

bevy's honeybees said:


> I hope he keeps his word about getting you a nuk of bees. Did he say he would bring you 5 frames of bees with queen and install in your hive?
> Well if you do not have bees by September, I will bring you some to install into your box on September 6th if you want. Or I can bring comb and lemongrass oil and get you set up with a bait box--having a swarm move in on its own is awesome. Please keep in touch with me.
> Beverly


Wow! That is amazing! Thank you so very much! I will certainly keep in touch. Please pm me your email if you like. He told me to find some bees online and he'd buy it. Queen and all so we will see. But wether or not he does I'd love to meet up anyway.


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