# UPS/Pidgeon Mountain dead bees



## LeonardS (Mar 13, 2012)

I ordered two packages of bees from Pidgeon Mountain and they were shipped yesterday by UPS Next Day Air. Apparently UPS placed them in a non-breathable container and the entire shipment died. They are sitting at the UPS facility in Kentucky.

Pidgeon Mountain is out of bees, so if anyone knows of some Nucs available, I am still trying to buy 2.

First my supplier in Iowa raises their price from $80 for 3 lbs and a queen to $100 for 2 lbs and a queen, and now my other packages die. I guess I am not supposed to expand this year!


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## LeonardS (Mar 13, 2012)

454 packages were destroyed in this shipment! I guess I am not the only one that is having a bad day.


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## Proskene (Mar 15, 2013)

"First my supplier in Iowa raises their price from $80 for 3 lbs and a queen to $100 for 2 lbs and a queen"

Who is THAT? Charging 20 percent more for 33 percent LESS product? Wow. . . that seems to be toeing the line on price gouging.


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## rmjones (Jun 4, 2012)

Also ordered a package from Pigeon Mountain Trading which looks like it got destroyed by UPS. So still interested in purchasing a package or NUC in the NYC area. Thanks.


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## LeonardS (Mar 13, 2012)

Spring Valley Honey Farm in Perry, Iowa. I told them "no thanks"!

Now that I'm not going to have any bees, that price doesn't look so bad.


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## libhart (Apr 22, 2010)

454 packages.....I know UPS won't insure live shipments, but with the press that the "save the bees" stories get these days, that almost seems worth some sort of media attention, shame UPS into doing this better.


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## beehonest (Nov 3, 2011)

Wow, that's sad, I hope you got reimbursed. That still doesn't help the no bee problem though. That very reason is why I have never had a package shipped.


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## LeonardS (Mar 13, 2012)

Yes, Pidgeon Mountain is filing the claims with UPS. Hopefully we will get full reimbursement.


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## beehonest (Nov 3, 2011)

That's good to here, I have only dealt with them a few times but they have always been good to deal with.


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## LeonardS (Mar 13, 2012)

UPS now shows my package as delivered??? 10:15 AM to Louisville, Kentucky. I bet this is a game so they can look better with on-time deliveries. They were about 500 miles short of a completed delivery.


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## LeonardS (Mar 13, 2012)

Here is the email from Pidgeon Mountain:

To: Affected Pigeon Mountain Customers

Subject: Live Bees Shipped UPS Next Day Air May 30th

From: S W McCloud

Dear Customers

I must inform you that all 454 packages of bees shipped out on UPS next day air to you on May 30th have been destroyed somehow. This happened at the Louisville UPS center in Kentucky.

For 61 of you, this is the second time in less than two weeks that this has happened, your bees were destroyed at the Louisville distribution center previously.

Obviously to say we are heartbroken is an understatement! We do not know what happened at UPS, our account manager Mr. Russel Ayers informed us of this a couple hours ago. He does not know what happened either at this point, only that all the 454 packages of bees are destroyed.

Mr. Ayers has given us permission to provide his e-mail address and phone number for any of you whom wish to contact him at UPS. Mr. Ayers has worked extremely hard to make sure all went well with the shipment and I believe is as upset as we are with what has happened.

Russel Ayers
[email protected]
678-634-7879

There are two options here:

Option one is we will work with you to process the claims with UPS and issue you a refund for your bees as the claims are processed.

Option two is we will if you wish ship to you bees using the USPS which is ground shipping on Wednesday June 5th. Normally May 31st is the last day to ship packaged bees, we will make an exception only for customers affected by this UPS Next Day disaster which has occurred and go back to the bee yards and get as many packages as is needed for those of you whom wish to have the packages replaced by USPS ground shipments. We will not ship any more bees UPS this year. 

We at Pigeon Mountain are truly heart broken to see all of these bees destroyed at UPS, we are extremely sorry that this has occurred for all of our customers affected. The bees were delivered to UPS in excellent condition as Mr. Ayers from UPS will confirm, what happened from there at UPS we do not know, all we know is that Mr. Ayers has informed us that all the bees are dead and are at the UPS facility in Louisville, Kentucky. 

I am sure our phone lines will be jammed today at Pigeon Mountain, our customer service staff will assist you in all ways possible.

Sincerely 

S W McCloud

Pigeon Mountain Trading Company



-- 

S. W. McCloud
President and CEO
1766 Broomtown Road LaFayette, GA 30728
706-638-8400 1-800-633-6425 Corporate Fax 706-638-7458
Fax Direct to SMcCloud 310-943-2695 or 52-55-1084-2944
[email protected]
www.usvinyl.com

http://usvdata.usvinyl.com/owa/atta...&[email protected]

U.S. VINYL RECOMMENDS OUR MOISTURE AWAY® (MICRO VENTING PROCESS) AND NAMIL-TRAC®
FOR ALL VINYL WALLCOVERINGS SHIPPING INTO AREAS WHERE THE GROWTH OF MILDEW,
FUNGUS, MOLDS, AND BACTERIA MAY BE A PROBLEM. THIS PROCESS IS AVAILABLE ON ALL
U.S. VINYL® WALLCOVERINGS ON A CUSTOM ORDER BASIS ONLY.
PLEASE CONTACT US FOR MORE INFORMATION





Johnny Wallace 

Pigeon Mountain Trading Company

106 North Duke Street LaFayette, GA 30728

Phone 706-638-1491 

Fax 706-638-8488


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## BigDawg (Apr 21, 2013)

Wow, that stinks. I guess it's easier to ship a killer whale (Willy) than it is to ship 400 bee packages.....


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## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

LeonardS said:


> Yes, Pidgeon Mountain is filing the claims with UPS. Hopefully we will get full reimbursement.


First of UPS claims are junk they will fight even insured claims for months...
second. they have had a major Bee Kill each of the last 3 years..... there service is terrible. last year they had a can of surup leak and bagged over 100 packages in one day and stopped all shipments for a week.


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## melliferal (Aug 30, 2010)

Yikes, that's pretty bad. Kind of adds a new perspective to the complaints and assumptions in this thread.


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## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

personaly I think the problem is people.... All of them have major issues. quality pride and care in their work is gone..... common sense... gone.... due dilegence.... gone.... not real hard to realize you have a something live and needs a little care....


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## spudrocket (Feb 13, 2013)

If it is the second time in a row, why would the UPS make the same mistake if they knew better the second time. Pigeon Mountain is definitely not the most reliable supplier, every time i order something from them it comes damaged or broken ex. supers, extractors, hive bodies. Sorry about your bees too, i know what it is like to be set back in beekeeping, I hope you have good luck.


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## beeup (Apr 10, 2010)

How could UPS destroy shipment? They must have been in the back of a hot truck too long is my only guess. If that were the case someone did not communicate the temp sensitive nature of the shipment. What a shame.


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## TheBuzz (Feb 8, 2012)

How could they do it twice? UPS should offer free shipping for their inconvience. Maybe they'll improve their process on the 3rd try. Once thy lose money they tend to pay attention a lot better.


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## dnichols (May 28, 2012)

What can brown do for you? Looks like they are pretty good at killing bees.


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## Beewildered61 (Apr 5, 2012)

UPS is not worth a crap on anything! I work in a warehouse, and we get very little in the way of UPS and people use Fed Ex way more....UPS doesn't care! In the last 7 years I have been living in my house, I have had a deep well pump with the cooling fins broken off, a small air compressor with a metal part broken off. Actually before that, I ordered a monitor for a computer about 8 yrs ago, and never got it, UPS website showed an attempt to deliver, there was no notice on my door or anything, next day same thing. I called and was told a notice had been placed on my door, and my monitor was on the verge of being sent back to the company because they couldn't deliver. I had a screen door over my front door, if they had put a notice, it would have been there. They claimed a notice had been left 3 times and there wasn't....finally I drove 20 miles and picked up the monitor.

2 months ago, I ordered a deep with frames, one frame, the wood was broken as if from a hard slam... I didn't even report it. 3 weeks ago, I had ordered another deep with frames, and 2 telescoping top covers, I just happened to pull up in the driveway when the UPS pulled up in front. I walked out on the porch to greet the guy and he walks up and drops the deep box from about 2-3 feet from the ground...and it slammed down hard...the telescoping covers, the sides of the top of the box were busted open, upon inspection I was missing some nails. When the guy dropped the deep box, I know my mouth fell open in shock, and then he started trying to make small talk...I reported him, and received a message on my answering machine stating that the driver had been "talked to".....

The bad thing is, a lot of places use UPS because it's cheaper and you might not have a choice in shipping, but YOU pay for it in the end....

I have ordered from Pigeon Mountain a couple of times, not bees, but I've never had any problems...


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## tommysnare (Jan 30, 2013)

hahaha ohhhhhhh pigeon mountain. they DEF took great care of us with an issue. problem ... then problem solved with a smile from them right away. ill order again for sure. im certain it was the shipping people. THEY SUCK when it comes to animals !


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## Slow Modem (Oct 6, 2011)

I don't have a dog in this fight, I'm on the outside looking in. I can see a few different aspects to this story.

My first thought is "first time shame on you, second time shame on me". But I'm sure PM had some intense conversations with UPS after the first batch was destroyed.

But they say:

"I must inform you that all 454 packages of bees shipped out on UPS next day air to you on May 30th have been destroyed somehow. This happened at the Louisville UPS center in Kentucky.

For 61 of you, this is the second time in less than two weeks that this has happened, your bees were destroyed at the Louisville distribution center previously."

Maybe if the 454 or at least the 61 got together, this might be a class-action lawsuit vs UPS.

or the other this is that they go on to say:

"Option two is we will if you wish ship to you bees using the USPS which is ground shipping on Wednesday June 5th."

From what I hear about trying to settle with UPS, this might be the least painful, most hopeful solution.

I really feel bad for all the folks that lost out on this. I hope they get some bees from somewhere. And I hope somehow the news picks up on this disaster and publicizes it.


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## DarkWolf (Feb 20, 2013)

When I ordered mine (not from PM), I had them ship USPS. Post office called me (happily) at 7:00 or so and let me know my bees were in. I could pick them up at the back before they opened if I liked. 

Go around back, ask a guy and he (happily) goes to get them. Granted, they were in a plastic carry bin and he kept them at arms length, but I'd expect no less. 

So long as they don't go DHL.. Those darn people, ship from one state south, go TWO states north past me in route and then come BACK down to be delivered.

If they went via the UPS plane, which would not surprise me since Louisville has a major air hub, it's highly possible they were in a non pressurized storage location during flight. Or perhaps the back of a truck during someones 1 hour lunch break at noon with the sun beating down. 

All in all though, not a fun thing to have happen. Sorry for those who are at a loss.


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## beeup (Apr 10, 2010)

I have never had a problem with UPS. I don't know if you have a bad driver but your problems seem unusual.


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## MichelleC (Jun 1, 2013)

I had also ordered two packages of bees since both of my hives did not survive the winter. Pigeon Mountain is claiming that they will not refund our money but we will have to wait for the UPS claim. Pigeon Mountain has also decided that any bees that they are able to ship out on June 5th to replace to these orders will be charged at full price, regardless of what we have already paid them. I have filed a claim with my credit card company as the shipment was never received. 

I normally get my bees from a local vendor who drives to GA each Spring. This year he ran out before my order was placed. I will never deal with Pigeon Mountain or any other mail order bee company again.


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## Bee Man (Sep 19, 2004)

can we say union - great workers in Louisville. If they were held responsible things would change! Why have any pride in your work since it doesn't matter what you do - throw packages, kill bees, get paid - another day! Can you imagine if you worked at a private company and just killed all these packages? Tens of thousands in losses, would you still be employed? Many other suppliers having issues with UPS shipping bees. I believe Koehnen has also had big trouble. We raise our own bees with swarms etc. never ship anymore since can't trust workers at the hubs. In regards to USPS, they have always done a great job for us as they'll call us at 5am to come get our bees.


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## wolfpenfarm (Jan 13, 2009)

quite frankly Having dealth with pidgeon mountain in the past, they are not obligated to refund anything as they did ship the bees and the bees died in transit. IF you did not pay for insurance on the bees, then that is on you, not pidgeon mountain. I don't remember if UPS even insures live animals on their shipments, but that is the number 1 reason i choose USPS to deliver my live animals and I know this option was available. 

I think its pretty crappy you would chargeback the charge when you knew up front that 1. bees were not insured and 2. that the policy of pidgeon mountain was replacement not refund. and 3. Pidgeon mountain is not denying you a refund, but they are utilizing the proper channel in forcing ups to cover the losses so that you get a refund. 

Pidgeon mountain did fulfill its contract to you in that it was shipped and by events beyond their control the bees did not arrive. Your beef is with UPS not pidgeon mountain.


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## wolfpenfarm (Jan 13, 2009)

I only allow my suppliers to ship USPS to me and i PAY for insurance on them so that i get reimbursed. When your spending a hundred bucks or so on bees a extra five bucks is worth the peace of mind.


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## melliferal (Aug 30, 2010)

wolfpenfarm said:


> I think its pretty crappy you would chargeback the charge when you knew up front that 1. bees were not insured and 2. that the policy of pidgeon mountain was replacement not refund. and 3. Pidgeon mountain is not denying you a refund, but they are utilizing the proper channel in forcing ups to cover the losses so that you get a refund.


If Pigeon Mountain is charging full price for another package, its policy can't really be called "replacement".

The shipping was paid by Pigeon Mountain. That means only Pigeon Mountain will get any refund UPS is eventually forced to pay, if any. It's then up to them to send that money back to you. Do you think that's their intention? If it is, then Pigeon Mountain loses nothing by refunding you now, and keeping the UPS reimbursement whenever it finally materializes.


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## DarkWolf (Feb 20, 2013)

Actually, since the packages were NOT delivered, it is NOT up to the customer to deal with any refund claims. I hadn't considered that on first reading. 

For the customer to be responsible, UPS needs to physically drop off every single package of dead bees into the customers hands, at which they could file a claim of damaged received goods. 

So why is this even going beyond PM and their UPS rep? Well, in terms of handling it, that is.


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## wolfpenfarm (Jan 13, 2009)

Its called operational funding. Most suppliers are not in the position of loaning out money til the settlement comes in. IF it is one or two packages, then yeah they replace, but if it is a mass incidence such as this one, and it is NOT the fault of the supplier that they died, then the issue is with UPS not the supplier. they fulfilled their end of the deal. Once its in the shipping process that ends their responsibility unless its their fault the bees died. 
Once UPS settles the bill then you will get your money or the bees one or the other. Pidgeon mountain owner is a honest and upright man and he isn't rich either. He is another beekeeper trying to make a living at this. So he doesn't have 45,000 dollars cash laying around to refund all of the packages immediately. 

Still pretty crappy to do a chargeback when you know it isn't his fault


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## wolfpenfarm (Jan 13, 2009)

The problem is UPS. Both Pidgeon mountain and the customer are getting the shaft. This is a time when the customers need to stand up and support pidgeon mountain in their efforts to force ups to make good, not jump on the supplier. I just hate to see another good mans business go belly up because of something ups did and the customer blaming the supplier. 

Remember its up to you the customer to request which shipper they use. I only use USPS as they are certified and insured against loss. The rest could care less about your product.

I can guarantee one thing from now on, when i ship a order out, i will require that the customer pay for insurance. Or i won't ship the item. At least that will be protection for me.


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## Beewildered61 (Apr 5, 2012)

I agree... I can't even rememebr the name, except the guy's name was Terry, in South Ga, I bought some bees from in 2011. He had a statement on his website that they would NOT be using UPS to ship bees because they had a bunch of dead bees delivered...I think they decide to use them later, but I just drove down and picked mine up.....

Other times I bought bees, they were shipped USPS, and they call me before the post office opens and I go around back and pick them up....if they are dead you can fill out a form and the Post office is supposed to reimburse, never had to use it though...



wolfpenfarm said:


> The problem is UPS. Both Pidgeon mountain and the customer are getting the shaft. This is a time when the customers need to stand up and support pidgeon mountain in their efforts to force ups to make good, not jump on the supplier. I just hate to see another good mans business go belly up because of something ups did and the customer blaming the supplier.
> 
> Remember its up to you the customer to request which shipper they use. I only use USPS as they are certified and insured against loss. The rest could care less about your product.
> 
> I can guarantee one thing from now on, when i ship a order out, i will require that the customer pay for insurance. Or i won't ship the item. At least that will be protection for me.


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## LeonardS (Mar 13, 2012)

We had the option of USPS, which was less expensive or UPS. The Pidgeon Mountain people said my bees would never get to Iowa alive if they shipped them USPS, so I took their advice and paid extra for UPS Next Day Air.


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## Slow Modem (Oct 6, 2011)

Bee Man said:


> can we say union - great workers in Louisville. If they were held responsible things would change! Why have any pride in your work since it doesn't matter what you do - throw packages, kill bees, get paid - another day! Can you imagine if you worked at a private company and just killed all these packages? Tens of thousands in losses, would you still be employed? Many other suppliers having issues with UPS shipping bees. I believe Koehnen has also had big trouble. We raise our own bees with swarms etc. never ship anymore since can't trust workers at the hubs. In regards to USPS, they have always done a great job for us as they'll call us at 5am to come get our bees.


As a union member I am highly offended by your statement. Political talk like that doesn't belong on a beekeeping forum.


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## melliferal (Aug 30, 2010)

LeonardS said:


> The Pidgeon Mountain people said my bees would never get to Iowa alive if they shipped them USPS, so I took their advice and paid extra for UPS Next Day Air.


Boy were they in for a shock.

But according to their own email, they had _just_ lost nearly an entire shipment of bees to UPS right before they sent this latest one. Surely they haven't settled that claim yet either; and they were still making statements like "your bees will die unless we send them UPS"?

If they send another shipment via UPS and most or all of it dies, that'll be sheer negligence on Pigeon Mountain's part.


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## Edymnion (May 30, 2013)

Hello all,

Just want to step in and give some credit where credit is due (and to say I'm happy I didn't get mine shipped!). I bought my package from PM earlier in the month and picked it up the Friday before Memorial Day. I live north of Chattanooga so it was about an hour's drive, and literally 10 minutes before I got there my cell phone rang and it was PM letting me know my bees would be ready on the 30th. "Um, I was told the 24th..." "Really? Do you know who told you that?" "Not sure, its on my confirmation, but its in the back seat of my car. I'm about 10 minutes from you guys and I can show it to you when I get there?" "Seriously? And you're coming from north of Chattanooga, and you're really 10 minutes out?" "Yup." "Okay, well come on in, we'll get you sorted out somehow."

They admitted that there was a screw up on their end, and they managed to juggle everything so that I still got my package. It was pretty clearly a mom and pop style place, good people. I'm clearly quite glad I decided to save myself the shipping cost and drive down there myself (hybrid car, only cost me a couple buck's worth of gas), but those guys bent over backwards to help me even after I said that I understood and could come back on the 30th.

Plus they had two very friendly shop cats.

Vilify UPS, the PM folk are good people providing a much needed service (they were the only ones with anything available at all this late in the season).


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## Spark (Feb 24, 2011)

Bee Man said:


> can we say union - great workers in Louisville. If they were held responsible things would change! Why have any pride in your work since it doesn't matter what you do - throw packages, kill bees, get paid - another day! Can you imagine if you worked at a private company and just killed all these packages? Tens of thousands in losses, would you still be employed? Many other suppliers having issues with UPS shipping bees. I believe Koehnen has also had big trouble. We raise our own bees with swarms etc. never ship anymore since can't trust workers at the hubs. In regards to USPS, they have always done a great job for us as they'll call us at 5am to come get our bees.


Way out of line how is it the unions fault. I'm sure corporate management is the underlying fault here as to the training of it's employees and how to deal with live animals. We could say all Beekeepers from Ohio aren't very good managers but it wouldn't be true there are some pretty decent keeps from Ohio on here and you aren't one of them.


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## Slow Modem (Oct 6, 2011)

Edymnion said:


> Vilify UPS, the PM folk are good people providing a much needed service (they were the only ones with anything available at all this late in the season).


I live north of you in Meigs County. My wife and I took a day trip down there last year. It is a unique store with more than just bee stuff. We were impressed with the store and the people. Anyone close or going by that way should stop in and check it out.


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## Corvair68 (May 10, 2011)

I had two packages shipped out the same day through USPS. They were supposed to arrive yesterday, but did not arrive in time. The distribution center called me this morning to see if I wanted to drive there to pick them up rather than wait for them to arrive at my local post office. The first package looked pretty good. The queen was very small and was in the queen cage with 7 worker bees, two of which were dead. The second package of bees which was attached to the first were all soaking wet and sticking to each other. The cage was full of wet leaves and sticks. It was like they shook the bees during a tornado.


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## GLOCK (Dec 29, 2009)

I'm with you Bee Man I know someone that worked for UPS and when things got crazy with people buying things on line and shipping exploded few years back he would break stuff out of spite and just hated how many things where sent UPS. Just saying And I say get your bee's and learn to make more and keep them alive problem solved.


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## Edymnion (May 30, 2013)

So what we're really saying is that we need to send packages with loose lids through UPS so that when they intentionally abuse them, they open up and release a swarm of bees in the processing center. 

We need a devil smiley around here...


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## melliferal (Aug 30, 2010)

Edymnion said:


> So what we're really saying is that we need to send packages with loose lids through UPS so that when they intentionally abuse them, they open up and release a swarm of bees in the processing center.


+1. I would still lose the package ultimately; but I have to admit I'd feel better inside.


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## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

And were you to suceed you would stop all UPS shipments of bees.... period.... and in the end you wouldn't get the bad guys...... I HATE UPS they have become to big for their britches... but we still need them, and unless you want to arrange local pickup for every package. you need to play nice.


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## melliferal (Aug 30, 2010)

I get that we need shippers, but do we really -need- UPS particularly? If I want to kill bees I can do it myself for free!


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## Edymnion (May 30, 2013)

gmcharlie said:


> And were you to suceed you would stop all UPS shipments of bees....


And if they can do nothing but abuse and kill bees anyway, we wouldn't have really lost anything.
Granted, this may or may not be just a pair of coincidences and they could have a very good track record other than this, I don't know. But given that they killed two full back to back waves of shipments does not speak well.


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## honeybeebee (Jan 27, 2013)

Someone sic peta on them


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## DarkWolf (Feb 20, 2013)

PETA doesn't care about bugs, just the cute fuzzies they can hug.


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## melliferal (Aug 30, 2010)

Vegans care about bees, but they are hostile toward all forms of beekeeping. They flatly refer to the artificial insemination of queens as rape for example.


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## Stanger (Mar 4, 2013)

Wow. This was one hell of a thread to read. UPS kills hundreds of packages of bees and you people blame unions? Ive been a union member for over a decade, and i take pride in my work. Unions gave us weekends, health care, and many other things we take for granted. Vegans can stfu about beekeeping because without us americas bees would die off along with their precious vegatables. If you want to hate a specific company or a d-bag worker who destroys peoples packages for no good reason then by all means, but to point the finger at his union is pretty stupid. Unions make sure us workers get a fair deal, its still on the company to not hire bastards.


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## DarkWolf (Feb 20, 2013)

Limit your "you people" to one person. I don't recall the mass blame of union work being done.
</correction>


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## Stanger (Mar 4, 2013)

Your right. By you people i meant those who blame the union as opposed to the company/worker responsible


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## millpond (May 30, 2013)

MichelleC said:


> I had also ordered two packages of bees since both of my hives did not survive the winter. Pigeon Mountain is claiming that they will not refund our money but we will have to wait for the UPS claim. Pigeon Mountain has also decided that any bees that they are able to ship out on June 5th to replace to these orders will be charged at full price, regardless of what we have already paid them. I have filed a claim with my credit card company as the shipment was never received.
> 
> I normally get my bees from a local vendor who drives to GA each Spring. This year he ran out before my order was placed. I will never deal with Pigeon Mountain or any other mail order bee company again.


So you blame the apiary? Didn't they put live bees on the UPS truck? I'm confused at all of these people that UPS kills bees and they blame the apiary? Do you think PM should ride around with each package of bees to make sure they get there ok? Or is it just easier to blame and defame the lesser of the 2 because they are an easy target.


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## LeonardS (Mar 13, 2012)

The have had my money since May 15th, so that has given them plenty of time to process the UPS claims. They sat on this for several weeks and did nothing as far as filing claims. They are not to blame for the killing of the bee's, but they are to blame for not getting the claims filed so we can get our refunds.


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## millpond (May 30, 2013)

DarkWolf said:


> Actually, since the packages were NOT delivered, it is NOT up to the customer to deal with any refund claims. I hadn't considered that on first reading.
> 
> For the customer to be responsible, UPS needs to physically drop off every single package of dead bees into the customers hands, at which they could file a claim of damaged received goods.
> 
> So why is this even going beyond PM and their UPS rep? Well, in terms of handling it, that is.


On June 3, 2013 I shipped 196 pkgs of bees UPS. 154 of them going thru Forrest Park, Ga were killed due to none ventilation. Verified by a beekeeper that was called to clean up the mess, as well as a UPS center manager. But the ones that weren't damaged by the sugar can exploded out of the box, were moved right along, delivered to the customer, DEAD. 87 packages were delivered to customers, dead, some just in the shipping container, some in a box, some put in a hazmat bag and sealed and delievered. But even with all of this, UPS denies any wrong doing. I even have a package inspection report that states, "Claim is denied because UPS cannot control the heat or cold environment that a live animal is put in while being delivered".
I asked them, if they can't control how hot or cold they are subjected to, why would they take them for shipment, and his response was " oh we will take them, just can't control the environment. 

I even have a youtube video that was posted by a UPS employee mishandeling MY bees on this shipment. I have retianed an attorney for this matter. He ias wanting ANY apiary that has had bees killed with UPS for this suit. You can contact me at [email protected]


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## millpond (May 30, 2013)

LeonardS said:


> The have had my money since May 15th, so that has given them plenty of time to process the UPS claims. They sat on this for several weeks and did nothing as far as filing claims. They are not to blame for the killing of the bee's, but they are to blame for not getting the claims filed so we can get our refunds.


You should speak out of what you know, not what you assume. UPS has battled me for 2 months now with not one bit of movement. You CAN"T file a claim on a live animal. IF they get any money for this it will be what UPS calls a goodwill reimbursement. out of the 154 I've had killed, I've received 21 refunds, and that is just because they were missing and they had no fight against it. If they had 454 customers, don't you think it took them some time to sort things out, call UPS, file paperwork etc? Or do you think it is just all about you?


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## LeonardS (Mar 13, 2012)

millpond said:


> You should speak out of what you know, not what you assume. UPS has battled me for 2 months now with not one bit of movement. You CAN"T file a claim on a live animal. IF they get any money for this it will be what UPS calls a goodwill reimbursement. out of the 154 I've had killed, I've received 21 refunds, and that is just because they were missing and they had no fight against it. If they had 454 customers, don't you think it took them some time to sort things out, call UPS, file paperwork etc? Or do you think it is just all about you?


You should speak of what you know! Pidgeon Mountain told me that they did not file the claims right away. Sounds to me like you work for Pidgeon Mountain and are trying to cover for them. Why only 4 posts??


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## millpond (May 30, 2013)

LeonardS said:


> You should speak of what you know! Pidgeon Mountain told me that they did not file the claims right away. Sounds to me like you work for Pidgeon Mountain and are trying to cover for them. Why only 4 posts??


No I don't work for PM. I OWN Mill Pond Apiary & Honey Farm. And what does how many posts I've made have to do with anything? I just now joined here. Not sure what that has to do with you bought bees from PM, they shipped them, UPS killed them. along with 453 other customers. Instead of defaming them, why not consider they have those 453 others also to deal with, ALONG WITH run a business. My business and I'm sure theres also can't stop because UPS killed a shipment of bees. So it just might take a little time to resolve.


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## LeonardS (Mar 13, 2012)

millpond said:


> No I don't work for PM. I OWN Mill Pond Apiary & Honey Farm. And what does how many posts I've made have to do with anything? I just now joined here. Not sure what that has to do with you bought bees from PM, they shipped them, UPS killed them. along with 453 other customers. Instead of defaming them, why not consider they have those 453 others also to deal with, ALONG WITH run a business. My business and I'm sure theres also can't stop because UPS killed a shipment of bees. So it just might take a little time to resolve.


Maybe you should read my post again. "They are not to blame for the killing of the bee's, but they are to blame for not getting the claims filed so we can get our refunds." They are at fault for not filing the claims and that's what I said.


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## TheBuzz (Feb 8, 2012)

Many places tell up front their not responsible for any loses.


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## LeonardS (Mar 13, 2012)

TheBuzz said:


> Many places tell up front their not responsible for any loses.


That was never said by Pidgeon Mountain.


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## Edymnion (May 30, 2013)

LeonardS said:


> Maybe you should read my post again. "They are not to blame for the killing of the bee's, but they are to blame for not getting the claims filed so we can get our refunds." They are at fault for not filing the claims and that's what I said.


And what millpond is saying is that they had hundreds of orders that were killed, and the only thing you have to go on is you say you called them and they told you they didn't file reports the instant people started saying they were getting dead bees?

Could it possibly be that they got a small handful of reports, yours included, then more started coming in and they were waiting to see exactly how many cases they ended up with before filing them all at once?

Just because you personally have one claim out of hundreds reported early does not mean that they would or even should jump on filing your one individual claim as soon as humanly possible. There are very good reasons to delay claims, like being able to make one large mass claim to show larger damages in order to increase the likelyhood of getting a positive response. You file them one or two at a time, and its easy to dismiss them as they come in. You file 500 at a time, somebody is forced to sit up and take notice.

I'm sorry you personally had a bad experience, but that doesn't mean it was typical or that PM isn't doing things correctly down there.


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