# Queen Types



## mackles (Jul 7, 2005)

There are many different types of queens out there and every one of them has different traits. I was wondering what was everyones favorite? Iv tried italians and for some reason they arent as good as i like. Bad brood development, but that could of just been a dud queen.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Bad brood development, but that could of just been a dud queen. 

Poor brood rearing is not a typical Italian trait. I'd say it's a dud queen.

I like the Carniolans or the ferals here. Both overwinter in small clusters and take off well in the spring. They are frugal, which could lead you to think the queen isn't doing her job, but when they decide to take off they do so quickly.

I used to have Buckfasts, which are more frugal than the Italians and less than the Carniolans.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

I like a russian/smr daughter, open mated to my climatized northern bred stock of various pedigree.

If your one that use chemicals and other various mite treatments, or are going for pure honey production, I could see italians.

If your going with soft chemicals or no chemicals at all, I would invest and seek out russian, NWC, smr traits, and other bees raised for your particular area.

I think at this time in beekeeping, more should be focused on who you are buying from, and what they are doing, instead of focusing on bees or strain type. There are some good breeder out there with stock from across the board. And to think all russians, or all italians can be grouped nowadays, is not feasible.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

mackles, since nobody else chimed in, have you seen the site at Glenn. They have some information on various types.

http://members.aol.com/queenb95/


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## Aspera (Aug 1, 2005)

If you are just starting out, Italians are the best choice. A well bred Italian will have excellent brood production, a disinclination to swarm, and draw comb rapidly (especially when fed sugar). As for the variety of italian, there are many strains (Buckfast, Starlines, SMR, Georgia production, Minnesota hygienic, California cordovans, Mraz). In your area, I've heard that CF Keohnen's and Taber's are well established, respected breeders (there are many good breeders in CA). Probably the care used in raising and shipping a queen is as important as the genetics.


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## norton (Mar 19, 2005)

Italians = Buckfast? This is a very misleading statement and one that keeps on being repeated. A check of the Buckfast pedigrees will show that they have very little relationship to Italians. Check out all the pedigrees on Jean-Marie's website.
Best regards
Norton.


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## Aspera (Aug 1, 2005)

According to Brother Adam's own writings the founding queens of Buckfast Abby were leather colored Italians obtained from France.


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## norton (Mar 19, 2005)

The original crossing was between the English bee and leather coloured Italians from the Liguria area of Italy. Since then various other races have been added to the make up of the strain. French mellifera, Greek cecropia and macedonica, sahariensis, adami, fasciata, anatoliaca, cypria, monticola and meda. 
So it's misleading and incorrect to say that the present day Buckfast is a strain of Italians. If you have any experience at all of real Buckfast bees you will at once see that they are very different from Italians. If you have been shown ''Buckfast'' bees that look like Italians then you have probably been shown Buckfasts that have been mated to Italians of couple of times. The behaviour of the two bees is also very different.
This misconception concerning Buckfast bees seems to quite common and is responsible for negative views being aired about Buckfast bees.
Best regards
Norton.


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## Murphy (Jun 7, 2005)

Mackles,
Here is a list of Cal Apiaries. Allens in Redding are good. But most any of these should be fairly close.

Kieran
**********************************

ALLEN'S BEE RANCH
19150 Smith Lane
Redding, CA. 96002
Phone: 530-221-1458
Italian 

BEAR RIVER HONEY CO.
P.O. Box 782
Wheatland, CA. 95692
Phone: 530-633-4789
Email: [email protected]
Italians & Russians

BEE HAPPY APIARIES
8307 Quail Canyon Road
Vacaville, CA 95688
Phone: 530-795-2124
Carniolan

BOB BRANDI
1518 Paradise Ln.
Los Banos, CA 93635
Phone: 209-826-0921
Fax: 209-826-8065
Italian

BUZZING BY APIARIES
2570 Royal Cr.
Chico, CA 95973
Phone: 503-343-7466
Fax: 503-894-1261
Italian

CAN-AM APIARIES
450 3rd Ave.
Orland, CA 95963
Phone: 1-800-228-2516
Carniolan

C.F. KOEHNEN & SONS, INC.
3131 Hwy. 45
Glenn, CA. 95943
Phone: 530-891-5216
Phone: 530-934-5216
Italian, Carniolan

2765 South Golden State Blvd.
P.O. Box 2837
Fresno, CA 93745
Phone: 559-495-0230 Fax: 559-495-0232
Toll Free Order: 1-877-432-3268

DENNIS LOHMAN APIARIES
6437 Wagner Rd.
Arbuckle, CA. 95912
Phone: 530-476-2322
Old World Carniolan

FRIESEN HONEY FARMS
8099 Rd. 29
Glenn, CA. 95943
Phone: 530-934-4944
New World Carniolan & Wenner Italian 

GLENN APIARIES
P.O. Box 2737
Fallbrook, CA. 92088
Phone: 760-728-3731
Email: [email protected]
Italian, Carniolan 

HEITKAMS' HONEY BEES
25815 Post Ave.
Orland, CA 95963
Phone: 530-865-9562
Fax: 530-865-7839
Italian, Carniolan 

HOMER E. PARK
P.O. Box 38
Palo Cedro, CA 96073
Phone: 530-547-3391
Italian 

JERRY FOSTER APIARIES
937 9th Street
Colusa, CA 95932
Phone: 530-458-4234
Italian, Carniolan 

JOHN FOSTER APIARIES
P.O. Box 699
Esparto, CA. 95627
Phone: 530-787-3044
Italian, Carniolan 

MONROE BEES
236 W. East Ave.
Chico, CA 95926
Phone: 530-284-7468
Pager: 530-892-3017
Italian, Carniolan 

NEWTON APIARIES
6539 W. Olive Ave
Fresno, CA 93722
Phone: 559-277-8456
Fax: 559-277-2567
Email: [email protected]

OLIVAREZ HONEY BEES
930 Trinity Street
Orland, CA 95963
Phone: 530-865-8376 

PENDELL APIARIES
P.O. Box 40
Stonyford, CA. 95979
Phone: 530-963-3062
Italian 

POWELL APIARIES
4140 County Road KK
Orland, CA 95963
Phone: 530-865-3346
Fax: 530-865-3043
Italian, Carniolan 

SMITH APIARIES
6801 Belleview
Paradise, CA 95969
Phone: 530-872-4483
Italian, Carniolan 

STEVE E. PARK APIARIES
11226 Deschutes Road
Palo Cedro, CA 96073
Phone: 530-549-3500
Fax: 530-549-5250
Italian package bees -Packages are not mailed. 

STRACHAN APIARIES, INC.
2522 Tierra Buena Rd.
Yuba City, CA. 95993
Phone: 530-674-3881
Fax: 530-674-5802
Email: [email protected]
New World Carniolan, Italian, Russian 

TABER'S HONEY BEE GENETICS
P.O. Box 1672
Vacaville, CA. 95696
Phone: 707-449-0440
Yugoslavian, Italian

TOLLET APIARIES
8700 Honey Lane
Millville, CA. 96062
Phone: 530-547-3387
Fax: 530-547-5327
Italian 

VAN VLEET APIARIES
21770 Black Ln.
Cottonwood, CA 96022
Phone: 530-347-1987
Email: [email protected]
Italian, Carniolan

WAYNE HARRISON
Los Banos, CA 93635
Phone: 209-826-2995
Fax: 209-827-406 

WOOTEN'S GOLDEN QUEENS
11189 Deschutes Road
Palo Cedro, CA 96073
Phone: 530-549-3555
Fax: 530-549-3624
Email: [email protected]
Italian queens & Nucs


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## Murphy (Jun 7, 2005)

Norton,
As you seem to be very familiar with the Buckfast bees could you give us list off traits and differences between Italians and Buckfast.

Thanks,

Kieran


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>could you give us list off traits and differences between Italians and Buckfast.

In my experience the Buckfasts are more frugal and overwintered on a smaller cluster than the Italians, but not as frugal and not as small a cluster as the Carniolans. The Buckfasts (up until the last batch I got) were as gentle if not more so than the Italians. The Buckfasts had a better sense of timing and buildup and productivity for my areas (Western Nebraska, Eastern Nebraska and Eastern Wyoming) than the Italians. The Buckfasts were tracheal mite resistant. Some of the Italian ones are and some aren't.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

When I was in Ohio, Phil Mariola, Bee Tech from OSU/ATI, gave a talk at the Tri-County Beekeepers Ass. meeting one month, on the charecteristics of bee breeds. I wish I had that info at my finger tips.

He covered things like gentleness, house cleaning ability, early or late spring build up and tapering off in the fall.

Does anybody have a list like that. I think that is what our thread author might be looking for. Right, mackles?


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## Aspera (Aug 1, 2005)

I think that it is important to distinguish between breeds and races. Races are naturally occurring genetically isolated populations of the honeybee (like ferals, but over hundreds or even thousands of years). Breeds are the result of selective breeding, inbreding and crossbreeding of the races of bees. I personally think that it is a stretch to call Carnies ard Italians separate races, and make no apologies about calling the Buckfast a breed of Italian. It certainly is no futhers removed from pure Italian strains than Mraz, SMR, Starlines or Konas. Many beekeepers feel that all Italians found in North America differ from the original race in many aspects.


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## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

here's a little writeup on the subject

http://www.drobbins.net/bee's/docs/beetypes.pdf

Dave


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## Aspera (Aug 1, 2005)

drobbins,

I can't seem to get through to the link. Your pictures came up nicely though.


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## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

Aspera

try again and let me know if it still doesn't work
I think the webserver hiccuped

I got it here

http://www.cals.ncsu.edu:8050/entomology/apiculture/Beekeeping_notes.html

there's several nice little articles there

Dave


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## Aspera (Aug 1, 2005)

Thanks, I got the link. Its a superb website. I think that I saw it a while back but forgot about it before having the chance to explore it fully.


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## norton (Mar 19, 2005)

Aspera wrote: "and make no apologies about calling the Buckfast a breed of Italian. It certainly is no futhers removed from pure Italian strains than Mraz, SMR, Starlines or Konas''.
I wouldn't expect you to apologise for your comment above. But I would expect you to be more responsible about the content of your postings. Any person with less experience than yourself that reads it,will have it fixed in their mind that Italians=Buckfast, which as I have pointed out to you is incorrect and misleading. As I have already said a check of the pedigrees at the Buckfast pedigree website will show that many of the lines have nothing at all to do with Italian bees. It appears that you have not done this. I suggest that you do so, so as to enlighten yourself.
Aspera also wrote: '' I personally think that it is a stretch to call Carnies ard Italians separate races''. 
So, first Buckfast bees are Italians and now Carniolians are as well! Are you suggesting a revision of the taxonomic status of Apis mellifera ligustica and Apis mellifera carnica? If you regard them as a single entity, what is this based on? Both populations are well separated and easily identifiable not just by simple observation but also morphometrics, pillosity, behaviour and MtDNA analysis and natural geographical distribution.
Best regards
Norton.


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## Aspera (Aug 1, 2005)

You're entitled to your opinion. Likewise, the website you mentioned clearly states that over half a dozen strains of mellifera are included in the Buckfast. While I have my doubts about the inclusion of monticola, it doesn't really matter as not all strains are likely to make up an equal percentage of a genome. As for mitochondrial DNA, which ONE race of mitochondrial DNA does the Buckfast contain? Incidentally, this little rag called the Hive and the Honeybee states that carnica and linguistic can accurately be thought of as differing strains of the same race (which is a poorly defined term at best, not a taxonomic classification). At risk of sounding overly dogmatic, I would also argue that numerous biologists and beekeepers around the world have demonstrated that simple observation, morphometrics, geographic distribution and the behavior of honeybees are readily influenced by husbandry practices and environmental conditions.


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