# Katrina and Beekeepers



## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Any fellow beekeepers in the path of Katrina?? My thoughts are with you if you are.

Just got classified as a Cat 5!! 160 MPH!!!

I sure hope it does not hite New Orleans directly!! That could be a major diasaster. Saw a Discovery channel show quite a bit back that told of the destruction to New Orleans if, no when, they get a direct hit. Something like 6 months before the water from the city can be removed.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Just clocked 175 MPH!! This is going to be a major issue folks!!

907 mb pressure at this time..

The BBC is already predicting a significant spike in oil prices.


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

They predict a significant spike in oil prices if an offshore oil driller stubs his toe and can't go to work for a day. Any excuse will do.

As for Katrina... god help thems in her way. The water temps in the gulf south of Louisana are in the upper 80's and 90 degrees was recorded at a buoy just off the Mississippi delta. Whew. With those kinds water temps, no wonder she's building steam.

George-


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

I moved out of Gulfport, MS. in 1984. I left a lot of good friends there. My prayers and best wishes go out to them and all the other folks down there. I WISH YOU THE BEST.


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

I saw a show where oil companies were actually pouring money into wetland restoration around the delta because so much oil pipelines run through there. The delta is dissapearing due to bad land management, and the oil companies are worried it will take their pipelines with it. This hurricane could really affect oil prices, of course they will find a way to make lots of money on it! I hope there are no oil spills and no toppled bee hives. And of course no deaths, but it looking rough. I'd head for the hills and take my hives with me. Likely a little late now!


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## piroqueman (Nov 24, 2004)

I am in Louisiana and I just got me some honey during the storm. It was a helluva lot cooler in my suit than with it being over 100 degrees. The honey was excellent, I gathered four jars. I have a cover built over my hive to insure that my hive stays dry and will last longer. Plus I am sure the bees are enjoying the shade.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

piroqueman......... Did you come out OK????


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

Despite the fact that we saw Katrina coming from a long ways off and had time to prepare for it... relief efforts seem to be taking a really long time to get going. Meanwhile, people continue to die.

What were they thinking?

George-


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## Bob Harrison (Mar 15, 2005)

I was raised in Florida with hurricanes. What is different about Katrina is the standing water in New Orleans. 
In Florida once the storm is past things dry out fast. Hurricane Donna was the worst I went through in the early 60's.
We could not get out our drive for downed trees let alone go a block down the street. Power lines were down all over the place. 

St. Louis, Missouri has a similar water wall around the downtown area. In the flood of 93 the wall was leaking water but held. Had it not the scenario would have been similar to New Orleans.
People did not leave as the wall has always held.
Same in New Orleans.

The scenario in New Orleans is more like our midwest floods than a hurricane as far as search and rescue is concerned. Can you imagine the heat in some of those attics and how hard it would be to cut through a roof with out tools?


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## Robert Hawkins (May 27, 2005)

If you look at who's coming out down there, you can see abject poverty. New Orleans has no money and now, no taxes coming in. No businesses, nothing. How are they gonna pay for disaster drills?

Hawk


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## Lew Best (Jan 8, 2005)

With this being such total devastation & New Orleans being in the "bowl" that it is I really wonder if it will rebuild? Certainly won't be the draw of all the history it had for tourists! Even seeing the pix on tv it's still hard to believe "it's real!"

Lew


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

I wonder about the common sense aspect of building a major metro area *below sea level* on the coast!!

The show I referenced in the first post of this thread stressed (before the hurricane) that this diasaster was not an *IF but WHEN* . 

This can happen again, next year, or the next decade.

Question is....... Should we authorize dumping billions of dollars to rebuild below sea level? Or spend it to move (at least the residential section) above sea level?


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## powersitbe (Apr 19, 2005)

New Orleans was above sea level until the levees were constructed. These required a pupming system on the land side & when the land was "de-waered" the town started to sink. So far it is dwon @ 20' from pre levee days, and is of course below sea level. If there is to be a rebuild, it needs to be done on fill which would take it back above seda level. But the fill can settle if de-watering continues. All in all, our attempts to control nature to support a capitalist system have just not been perfected.


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## powersitbe (Apr 19, 2005)

New Orleans was above sea level until the levees were constructed. These required a pumping system on the land side & when the land was "de-watered" the town started to sink. So far it is down @ 20' from pre levee days, and is of course below sea level. If there is to be a rebuild, it needs to be done on fill which would take it back above sea level. But the fill can settle if de-watering continues. All in all, our attempts to control nature to support a capitalist system have just not been perfected.


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## Aspera (Aug 1, 2005)

I don't know how capitalism fits in, but beekeeping is obvious proof that nature can only be temporaily managed, not controlled. If there is anything a Yankee can do to help another beekeeper, email me at [email protected]


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>The show I referenced in the first post of this thread stressed (before the hurricane) that this diasaster was not an IF but WHEN . 

HALF of the Netherlands (Holland) has been below sea level for centuries before (and after) the beginning of New Orleans. The Dutch have a saying that "God created the world, but the Dutch created Holland." What they did, of course, was steal it from the ocean. Less wars with the ocean than their neighbors, that way.

And, as powersitbe pointed out, New Orleans was not below sea level when it was built. The delta keeps building up and the ocean level keeps moving up.

>This can happen again, next year, or the next decade.

Virtually anywhere near any river or any ocean.

>Question is....... Should we authorize dumping billions of dollars to rebuild below sea level? Or spend it to move (at least the residential section) above sea level?

It'll never happen.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

I agree that it will not happen. 

I just question the wisdom. If thought out rationally. Rebuilding there without raising the base (if even possible) needs some thought.

The Netherlands analogy would be a good one if they were in "Hurricane Alley".

I felt the same way here when the Red River flood of 1997. The cycle of building on a flood plain, getting destroyed every 50 years, rebuilding at public expense, needs to be examined.

Here in Devils Lake (which made Newsweek in the 90's) the lake has risen 50 feet since 1940. Takeing countless homes and communities with it. Homes and communities built on known flood plains. Not ancient communities mind you.


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

One other point. New Orleans is not on the ground. It is on a shelf of land jutting out into the water. There is nothing under it but water. Is all the weight being added with each new building not pushing the shelf a little further down into the water??


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## SilverFox (Apr 25, 2003)

iddee; Kinda like continuing to build in LA and adding weight on a crack with out removing an equal weight from the area surrounding the crack. HUMMMMMMM, I'm no rocket scientist. But isn't that along the same lines?????


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

Or building on the NC coast when we are losing a foot or two anually to the sea and the feds have already forbid replacing sand or building a seawall. 
Seems we have a lot of "smart????" builders around.


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## peggjam (Mar 4, 2005)

What common sense would dictate would be a fifty mile zone along every coast that is free of any buildings. But that won't happen either. I feel for the victims of this hurricane, but I can't feel sorry for their ignorance of nature for building in such a spot to begin with. Or for rebuilding after a distaster such as this one. People do stupid things, people die because of it, it's that simple. Maybe next time a manditory evcuation is issued, everyone will leave.

peggjam


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## Brent Bean (Jun 30, 2005)

I will never complain about blizzards, snow and cold again. Compared to what people are suffering with Katrina, old man winter seems like a boy scout. I have family in Florida, and my brother wishes he stayed in Michigan.


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## James Henderson (Jun 20, 2005)

I think JP lives in Metairie or somewhere near there. Sure hope he is okay. 

JP, if you see this note and were evacuated from N.O. Metro or affected areas and need a place to stay, give me a call at 225-803-5406 or drop me an email. I can cram you in with my coworker and his family/pets who were evacuated out of Slidell last Saturday. I still have no power at my home and I imagine it may be a week or so more. 

I do have a generator, a few fans, propane grill, and ice is just becoming available in Baton Rouge, so the adult bevarages can be consumed ice cold from the coolers rather than hot.

As for me, my beekeeping adventure may be delayed well into 2006 or 2007. Need the power company and an arborist to remove 2 large trees overhanging the powerlines in my backyard first. I am just one of millions of folks needing trees and limbs cut and removed. Guess I could move the hive at a later date.

Personally, I can't see how N.O. could ever be completely rebuilt. So many lost so much (home, business, possessions, & paycheck). I-10 btwn N.O. and Slidell was completely butchered too. Guess the damage could have been much worse if N.O. took a direct hit or the eye was on the west side of the city. Although, I will try to be optimistic that it will be re-built.

Need some firewood??


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Sorry to hear your plight James........... I feel kinda helpless up here......... seriously thought about hoping in my car and going down to help. I have little $$$ but want to help.


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## BubbaBob (Jan 18, 2005)

Bruce, I'm probably heading down that way tomorrow...I don't have any money, but I've got a chainsaw and a brain...maybe I can use both to help...or at least the chainsaw.

BubbaBob


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## Murphy (Jun 7, 2005)

Peggam,

A lot of people are so poor they did'nt have the money or cars to leave. Also this city was built along time before the current residents.
I think you are being a little harsh


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

Murphy, have you been there? Do you know how really poor? I have. I do. Many moved up in the world when they went to the superdome. They will be in "tall cotton" when they get to the astrodome. Actually have more then one meal a day, running water, toilet paper on a roll. Many things that they didn't have before.
I'm not taking Peggjam's, or the opposite side, I'm just telling it like it is.

Still, I am worried sick about my friends I left when I moved to NC. I'll certainly be glad when they get it cleaned up enough for me to go down and see how many friends I have lost.


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## Murphy (Jun 7, 2005)

Yes I have been there many times. It is just sad to hear about all these people basically been left to fend for themselves. I have friends there as well. I hope your friends are ok.
I am sorry, but the Feds are doing a lousy job on this. 
Murphy


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

So what's new? When have the feds done a good job??????


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## peggjam (Mar 4, 2005)

Murphy:

Sorry, but I'm not harsh enough. Yes they are poor people, no money, no car. But if they are cabable of the massive looting they are doing, then they had the ability to leave before the storm. And in reality my comments are directed at the officials of NO who did nothing to get the ones out that wanted to leave. We all knew the potantional danger days before Katrina hit, and yet they did nothing. Bush should have mobilized distaster relief days before the storm hit. We knew it was going to be bad. Big deal, he cut his vacation short 2 days. Congress can reconvine for sessions to pass a law for Karen Shivio, but can't for this distaster?? What is wrong with this picture?? The help should have been there days ago, not just getting started. This is just starting. Major supply lines that run through that area are disrupted, and it's not just gas and oil, it's food, coffee, and this nations ability to import and export commidities such as grains, bannas, 3% of the poultry raised in this country is from the affected area. It will not just be their problem soon, it will be all of our problem. If you think the spike in gas is bad, wait till everything else starts going up. This is bad.

peggjam


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Heck Bush didn't go to the White House til' yesterday!


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

Peggjam, I agree with most, but not the time. Saturday morning, 48 hours prior to hit, the weather man was saying catagory 1 hitting Fla. panhandle. LA and MISS. had very little warning.


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## peggjam (Mar 4, 2005)

Katrina hit the FL panhandle on Aug 25, passed over land within 8 hours and begain to restrenghten immidiately. It was forcast to make landfall as a cat 5 on Sat, and they pretty much knew that it would hit in the MS, LA area by Sat. I watched this storm develop and tracked it from start to finish over the course of it's two week life. They had plenty of time to make some real plans, and failed to do it. When a manaditory evucation is issued, then it should mean that everyone leaves, and is provided with the means to do so. The people who choose to stay not only put their lives at risk, but also risk the lives of the people who have to rescue them from their own stupidity.

peggjam


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

I agree with peggjam and I too watched this develop.

What is distressing is that hurricaines are not an anomally in the gulf..... There should have been a system in place at least has strong as Homeland Security......

Response time has been horrible...

And for a President to be sitting in freakin Texas until yesterday is just........ wrong! 

I don't care if he works there. As president in times of tragedy you get to the helm!! Not sit in Crawford or in a classroon reading "My Pet Goat".


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

Peggjam, Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but they moved the panhandle WAY north of Miami.  

It hit Miami the 25th,Thursday, as a cat 1. They predicted it to hit the panhandle as the same until Saturday, when they decided it was going to pick up speed and head west. Even then, they said cat 3. I do believe they finally started saying cat 4 or cat 5 Saturday night or sunday.


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## peggjam (Mar 4, 2005)

Ya, iddee, it was Miami, I stand corrected. They forecast a cat 5 around noon sat. But they still had 48 hours to impliment real plans for NO. They didn't. From some of the reports I have heard some of the people started leaving NO early on sat, one that was interviewed was up at 4am and out of the city by 6am. They knew it would be bad, and they knew it before noon sat. Sooo...I guess there was plenty of time to get everyone out.

peggjam


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

So now you agree, it was Saturday before they knew. Now, even if all tried to go, how long do you think it would take to evacuate all the people from mobile to St. Charles, La. Think a little, Peggjam, it would take 30 days or more if they knew where to take them, which they didn't. No way it's going to happen in two or three days. Besides, many, many, many, would refuse to leave and scream police brutality and police state, and suits by the thousands if it had not been disastrous. Think about foresight, it's never as clear as hindsight.
All that said, I agree with you that it could have been handled better.


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## peggjam (Mar 4, 2005)

If you read my previous posts, I stated that it was sat when they forecast cat 5, I've said that in the two privious posts. I don't believe that they could not have evcuated the city of NO within 48 hours, in fact they should have started as soon as the forecast track showed NO as a possible landfall. I am not sure where you get the idea that it would take 30 days to do the job. If 75000 left each day it would only take 10 days. As far as those who refuse to go, they shouldn't expect someone to rescue them and risk their lives to do it. People do stupid things, people die, it's that simiple. Manditory evucation means just that, you leave. Had they been forcably removed, would they be any the worse for wear now, they certainly wouldn't be stranded, or dead. They wouldn't need to have a massive effort to have supplies brought in to keep them alive.
Most of what I have heard is that alot of people wanted to leave, but didn't have the resoureses to do so, which should have been provided by the government. It is why we pay taxes, so that our government can help people when they can't help themselves. This whole thing is a sad way to see the limits of what our government is willing to do for the common good of all citizins of this country.

peggjam


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

You must only be talking about NO. What about the rest of the coast? Should they not be evaced also. 750,000 won't even touch the number of people that got hit. Also, you are talking as if all are able to walk to a vehicle, sit in a seat, ETC. It would take more then the 10 days to evac the infirm alone, much less the semi infirm and healthy. It was just an impossible task. But I still agree with you that it could have been done better, and I'm sure it would have been if it could have been planned with hindsight rather then foresight.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Not minimizing the rest of the coast...... they are suffering.

But when a city is below sea level and a hurricane of any size is tracking toward you....... you evacuate.

Yes they had time....... Do you think the banks and casinos didn't get their cash out???

Even if they had a weeks notice there would have been lots of people who would stay behind.


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

Do you honestly think the hospitals, nursing homes, homecare patients, ETC, could be evacuated it 48 hours?? You must be dreaming.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Absolutly!! I would expect nothing less in a city lower than sea level. There should have been provisions for that. Detailed plans of evacuation with regular drills.

But as things went..........


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

Like I said, You must be dreaming. With that line of thought, why didn't they just put them up in a rocket and let them orbit until the danger was over. It would be just as feasible. To pull a drill with all the infirms, prisoners, and mentally and physically incapacited alone would result in more deaths and injuries then the real thing did. Get real..


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

I worked in a hospital pharmacy for 5 years. We had tornado drills, different levels of catastrophy drills, call in lists, etc..... Drills are drills....... not evacuations. Drills are meant to be prepared. 

Are you saying they were ?? 
That it could not have been done better?? 
That a city that lies at least 7 feet below sea level could not have done a better job??

I am not blaming here, just observing and wishing for the sake of the dead it would have been done better.

We have to learn from this....


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## Murphy (Jun 7, 2005)

I listened Michael Chernoff on the radio arguing that nobody is without food and they should go designated areas. There was a reporter on the line from the Convention Center at the same time and Chernoff was basically calling him a liar.

When asked what had happened at FEMA since a 2001 report said NO would be devastated by a hurricane, he gave a canned answer.

I am wondering is this a third world country or the richest nation in the world?

The goverment has a responsibility to the people and instead is basicaly giving the country the one finger salute.


Murphy


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## peggjam (Mar 4, 2005)

Even admist the bullets that they face, they evcuated 600 crictcally ill patients overnight. I'm not saying they could have gotten every single person out of NO in 48 hours. I am saying they could've done alot more than was done. I do believe they could have removed all the patients and the people who wanted to leave but didn't have the means to do so. I don't think they had a plan in place to deal with a storm of this size, even though they have known for decades that it would happen.

In 2002 two reporters wrote an article that detailed what would happen if a cat 3 hit NO. It was very accurite, and could've been used as a blueprint for Katrina. So, how long do you think they have had to prepare for this??? Years.

This was botched before the storm ever hit. As far as the rest of the coast, they could evacuate if they wanted to, most of them didn't and now we have this mess. My comments deal with NO, not with the rest of the coast. The rest of the coast isn't under flood waters, and people arn't stuck in a city with no way out.

peggjam


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

I've said from the beginning it could have been done better, just that it could not have been done completely and totally. When you are needing a hundred, 69 would be better then40, but the job still wouldn't be done. 
Could it be done better??? YES
Could it have been done 100%??? NO
It's 11:30 here, Bruce. Good Night
It's been fun. I'll buy the next round of drinks.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Later iddee, it has been stimulating and good for my brain cells, the few that remain......... I am off as well.


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## BubbaBob (Jan 18, 2005)

You don't drill for what just happened. That would be as rediculous and ineffective as the drills in the 60's when I was in grade school in Rapid City, SD. We were constantly crawling under our desks and practicing not looking toward the windows in case Ellsworth Air Force Base got nuked by the Russkies. It was, and a drill for this would be, a total waste of time...like trying to pee up a rope.

BubbaBob


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

And remember all the money wasted on building bomb shelters in basements and under back yards. 
"BB, we're getting old."


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>And for a President to be sitting in freakin Texas until yesterday is just........ wrong! 

Hmmm. He should waste a day traveling to Washington when he has things that need to be done and decisions to make. He can't make them in Texas? They don't have phone lines in Texas? They don't have any communications in his ranch in Texas?

I don't undestand the recriminations. Flying to Washington would have accomplished what?


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## GaSteve (Apr 28, 2004)

I agree with MB. Every time a president takes a vacation, it usually makes the news as "president plays golf while crises A, B, and C are occurring." There will always be crises and there will always be people in a bad way. Given that criteria, the president would never rest (or sleep for that matter). If you look at pictures of presidents before and after they're in office, I'd say the job takes its toll on them.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Being in Washington at least give the "impression" the man is one top of things.

And no offense.... It does not take a day for Air Force One to get to Washington.  No long lines, and fewer bottlenecks at security screeners.


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

I wonder if he got a $200.00 haircut in route.


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## peggjam (Mar 4, 2005)

BB:

So in essence you are stating that the drills held for distarter preparedness are a waste of time, money, and supplies??

Would you rather have trained personal who have never faced a major disaster be the ones to try to rescue you in the event that something happened in your area. At least they have stimulated what could happen, and learn a better way to handle things, than never having face this kind of situation, and being throwen into it with nothing. Thats why it is called training.

Comparing the drills carried out today with those of the sixites isn't exactly fair to the complex drills they do these days.

As far as getting everyone out of NO, it could've been done. If you stop to think about the number of people who could and did self-evcuate, there wasn't that many left that the city government had to move. This would've included the infirmed, and the poor and homeless. If you don't count the ones that refused to leave, you have a very small number in relation to the total number of city residents. Somewhere between 50-75000 people that would have needed assistance getting out of NO. That is very doable.

The reason Bush is recieving so much bad press is that it has been four days since Katrina made landfall, and the people of NO still don't have life-substaining supplies that they need. How long do you think these people stuck in their attics can continue to survie????? The response has been very slow, and is shameful.

peggjam


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

Numbers for comparison only:

Without drills, 55% success
With drills, 65% success
Could have been 100% success, B*** S***


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## peggjam (Mar 4, 2005)

10% is important if your in the 10% increase that got your *** saved. That's important. Who said 100%??? If you only deal with those who want to leave, yes 100% of those people is doable, considering about 75% will self-evcuate. 

peggjam


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

Again, rather then asterisks, just imagine I typed them. The magnitude of what happened is totally beyond your comprehension.


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

OH, Peggjam, that wasn't meant as an insult to you, just an expression of the magnitude of what happened. I haven't stooped to personal insults, and hope not to.


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## peggjam (Mar 4, 2005)

I guess you have run out of logical arguements that would change my mind that evcuating NO of the residents that wanted to leave could have been done. Other cities have done so because they had realistic plans in place to deal with this kind of situation. But I guess a real plan isn't high on NO officials list pior to Katrina.


iddee: I didn't take that as an insult to me personnaly. I love a sprited debate, and as you said in a previous post to another thread, what we post here isn't going to change world policy.


peggjam


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## db_land (Aug 29, 2003)

I agree with BB. What drill could have prepared for these scum-bag looters? How do you "plan" for over 50% of the NO police abandoning their post or simply not showing up? How do you handle it when the useless POLICE join the looters? How do you "drill" for people shooting at med-evac copters?

A couple of blackhawk helicopters and swat teams to take out a few looters and a couple of gangs would have worked wonders for the rescue effort. But that wouldn't be PC and Bush would have been crucified by left-wingers like Jesse Jackson, et al.


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## GaSteve (Apr 28, 2004)

>How do you handle it when the useless POLICE join the looters?

Apparently the NO police are the most corrupt in the country. They were so bad, they made an episode of 60 Minutes several years ago.


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

AMEN, DB, and no, Peggjam, other cities have never done it. No other city has ever faced even half what NO is facing. There are 3 to 4 million people in need that would have to be passed up just to get to the city limits of NO. I repeat, we cannot even fathom the extent of this damage. It's like trying to imagine a pile of money equal to the national debt. Our minds cannot reach that far.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

db.......... The looting is a direct result of not having a plan. If the majority of people had been evacuated there would have been lots less looting.


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## piroqueman (Nov 24, 2004)

Yes we made it, all we got was some 50mph winds here. The eye was about 150 miles to the East of me. I just got back online though, we had and are still having problems here because of the storm south of here. I did enjoy the blasts of wind while I was working my hive. I robbed two frames of honey while it was cooler outside. Glad we didnt get hammered.


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

No, Sundance, the looters left there would just have gotten more stuff, and the ones that left would just be taking from the others in the shelters. Scum is scum, where ever they happen to be.


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

Piroqueman, Thanks for the notification. One less to worry about. Maybe others will come on shortly. Glad to hear you made it safely.
We were all concerned.


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## Murphy (Jun 7, 2005)

Have we become so inhuman that we leave our dead lying in the streets. When we have countries in as bad a shape as Sri Lanka offering help, there is something wrong.

I think the evacuation point is moot as those people stayed, and not all are looters.
Why after 5 or more days are people still suffering from hunger.

40% of the people in NO live below the poverty line. Do you think they fully understood that this was just not another hurricane. When I hear of police handing in there badges and quitting they should be ashamed of themselves. What happened to Serve and Protect.


Murphy


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## BubbaBob (Jan 18, 2005)

pegg, no I am not suggesting that disaster drills are useless and a waste in general. I am stating that there are SOME things that simply cannot be prepared for.

Plan for and practice for a school bus accident.

Plan and practice for an airliner crashing into a populated area.

But this? Not possible.

Look at the world trade center...it took 2 days to really get cranked up...and that was a disaster that covered 17 acres...this one covers 90,000 square miles...more land that the state of Kansas, or Iowa, or Wyoming (actually I think Wyoming is 97,000 sq miles, but it's close).

This is impossible to plan or prepare for. You can do general training...you can have equipment, but when something like this happens you just have to react from the gut.

BubbaBob


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## peggjam (Mar 4, 2005)

iddee:

Actually they evacuated southern FL last year, and that was alot more people than NO has, and they had it done long before those storms hit. So yes, it can be done.

peggjam


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

Peggjam, Have you ever been in southern florida when a hurricane came through? I have, and believe me, it is not evacuated. I have attended a number of drunken hurricane parties, and you can't even see a decrease in the population. The streets are full, and everyone is having a great time. You have never partied until you know it may be your last.


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## James Henderson (Jun 20, 2005)

Bubba Bee and others interested in coming down to Cajun Land to assist. Thanks a lot!!!

However be prepared that motels are likely booked across at least southern Louisiana, Mississippi, and eastern Texas. Here in Baton Rouge, which is the staging area and first drop off point for the rescued, gas is quickly becoming a rare comodity. Drove at least 10 miles last night to find a Race Track selling the cheap gas for $3.00 per gallon. Passed by a dozen stations that were out of fuel.

Cellular and landline phone service in many areas no longer exists till infrastructure can be repaired and electrical service can be turned on. 

The best way to volunteer would be to contact the American Red Cross or the Salvation Army. I'll be volunteering with the American Red Cross this holiday. Coastal Mississippi needs volunteers too. Honey can be donated too if your $$$$ supply is low too.

If you can donate non-perishable food items, clothes, baby stuff, etc., you can likely send it to the Louisiana or Mississippi offices of the American Red Cross or the Salvation Army. If not, send it to me at 995 N. Leighton Drive, Baton Rouge, LA 70806 and I'll take it by either organization you prefer.

AC and a hot shower never felt so good. My power was fully restored Friday Noon. I am truely one of the many lucky ones.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Hang in Jim................ Once this country kicks it in gear things get done in a hurry.


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## David Stewart (Jan 22, 2005)

Refugees beginning to show up in hotels in extreme southeastern Oklahoma. These are primarily the ones who evacuated and with the hotels filling up, the "bubble" of available lodging is just expanding.  

David


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## Malcolm McNabb (Dec 30, 2002)

well i think the mayor and the govenor dropped the ball. I saw a picture of a few thousand school buses parked in 5 feet of water dont know about the city buses probaly the same . I think they could have used them to evacuate the projects around the superdome, like they didnt think those savages wouldnt cause problems, Duh. Heck if i would have been there with out a ride i would have went out in a cattle trailer if it was available, but that wouldnt be politically correct and im sure someboby would want to sue because their treating us like 2nd class citizens,heck we are paying for their medical ,housing ,food ,edcuation,electricity water ect...jeez if there was enough limos to haul them all out they would still be crying that they wernt being treated fairly,cause there wasnt free fried chicken and 40oz bottles of beer in the limos.
As for the troublemakers shot them dead on sight,string them up and paint looter on them so they all can see what happens to the undesirables.either cooperated with the police/national guard or simply DIE. Most of the looters not the ones getting food or water but the ones getting tv,s stereos , rapeing children ect.. wouldnt leave because there isnt very many oppertunitys to loot a major city every day. I know the south will rise again too bad we will have to pay for it to give them the chance to trash it,loot it again during the next hurricane.I first thought it wouldnt be a good idea to rebuild that cess pool. but we need to for me i dont want those thugs in my back yard.


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## beecron (Nov 7, 2004)

I love America...where else on earth can people open up like this in a public forum without being hunted down by the government for speaking thier minds and magically disappearing off of the face of the earth?


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

Malcolm McNabb , You better be quiet. This is America. The "haves" don't allow the truth in their circles anymore. They will vile you to death for even thinking the truth, much less speaking it. Only idealistic speech is tolerated in this day and time.


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## Buzzer (Jun 13, 2005)

> I love America...where else on earth can people open up like this in a public forum without being hunted down by the government for speaking thier minds and magically disappearing off of the face of the earth?


Ummm. Let's se. I can think of at least one place.

Our hearts go out to those suffering in New Orleans. We are doing fundraising in my neighbourhood to make a significant cash contribution to the Red Cross. Canada is sending 200 mobile hospitals and several huge water purification machines, among other things. We're all in this together, neighbours. It is frustrating not to be able to help more effectively.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Thanks Buzzer!!! 

I have long admired Canada. Wonderful folks and fantastic scenery.

When is the CBC going to end the strike. I listen to Winnepeg 90% of the time but stopped during the work stopage. I miss it!!!


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

posting this again here. Its a story from 2002 on what is happening in New Orleans. It was clear that it would happen. They did computer models for a direct hit of a category 5 on New Orleans. This one wasn't quite a direct hit or a category 5. So can they realistically build New Orleans back to handle a direct hit with a category 5? One day someone will see because one day it will happen, again.

http://americanradioworks.publicradio.org/features/wetlands/hurricane1.html


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## Deano (Sep 4, 2004)

hi all, just got my power on and checking on things. i have been real busy getting water and sewer pumps back on here in meridian m.s.we got hit bad this time, we usually get so so weather 3 weeks clean up & back to noraml. not this time, out of town people that have lost everything are every where. no gas water power phones, stores with out food.by thursday we had water back to all city, i still have sewer running down the streets in many parts of city, you guys keep on praying for people down this way.aqlso my bees did well only lost 2 hives, thanks


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## ChellesBees (Apr 1, 2003)

Well, Minnesota is stepping to the plate. Cops on the way from Hennepin County,with people from St. Paul and Mpls. soon to follow. 
Sounds like they will relocate at least 5000 from NO to Camp Ripley in central MN until they can assimilate into surrounding communities. Ripley is a Guard Base, one that was potentially on the list to be closed.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Good to hear my state of birth is stepping up. I've archery hunted at Ripley. Beautiful country in there.


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

telling satelite images

http://www.digitalglobe.com/katrina_gallery.html


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## notaclue (Jun 30, 2005)

You and me both Sundance. But my raising and hunting was between Montevideo and Clinton. 
The proffessionals (-1 sp) here in Arkansas are stepping up also. We have quite a few folks that want to open their houses to Katrina victim families as does my brother in-law in Oklahoma City. 
Not everyone knows who to contact, I've been recommending Red Cross and Salvation Army as well as UMCOR and their local churches.
David


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

It is good to see the best of this counry stepping up to fill the void.

This should ease the backlash here and abroad on the initial slow response.

The time for finger pointing and blame is not now and my hope is the media shifts its' focus on the wonderful and positive things happening.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>my hope is the media shifts its' focus on the wonderful and positive things happening.

That would be unprecedented.


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

Unprecedented, maybe,but we can still hope. I'm with you, Sundance.


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## Lew Best (Jan 8, 2005)

Hi All

Just read this whole thread; hard to remember all I read but I believe there were a coupla mentions of list members headed to the gulf coast? I can't offer much but if any forum members are passing thru central TX & need an overnight stop about 500 miles from NO I can offer a bedroom for an overnight stop. Just send me a PM.

Lew in Waco


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## notaclue (Jun 30, 2005)

One thing we learned yesterday at church from evacuees from the storm is that if you're going down to help take gas with you, alot of it. We have two trucks heading down and they are taking about four hundred gallons with them for down and back. The storm also devestated a whole lot more and quite a ways further north than the press I've seen is talking about. This one really creamed the southern part of this GREAT COUNTRY! Good luck and God speed to all who are heading down to help!


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## Lew Best (Jan 8, 2005)

Don't know how much help it is but http://www.flyingj.com/fuel/gasoline_CF.cfm?state=ALL shows prices/availibility at all Flying J truck stops; updated daily at 6AM pacific time.

Lew


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## Butterchurn (Jan 13, 2005)

I think we could have done much better, but to lay all of this in the president's lap is not fair.

First it seems that all we want to do is want the feds to bail us out. We can't do anything for ourselves, we must have the feds do it for us. We can't have a disaster plan for ourselves, nor allocate the money to keep the levee in repair like we were told we needed to, or organize relief efforts ourselves, the feds have to do it for us.

The purpose of FEMA is not to take over and control disaster response its purpose is to assist the local efforts. Could FEMA have done better, yes. I think some heads will role over this. The issue is that the democrats controlling the state of Louisianna knew about the problem with the levee but refused to allocate the funds to repair it, using the funds elsewhere and now want to blame Bush for their neglegence. What is disgusting is the democrats using this for political gain instead of caring about the victims. These people are below contempt. Where is the responsibility of the mayor of N.O. and the governor of the State in all of this?

As one poster remarked, Bush was on top of things, he had all the communications he needed to reach the world and the entire government from his ranch and he was closer to the problem in Crawford than he would be in D.C. Anyone who thinks Bush would just be out playing golf or something else instead of dealing with the situation, simply does not know our president. Anyone who knows the president knows what a caring person he is.

If Bush can be faulted for anything its not letting people know what he's doing. Bush just works and doesn't like to brag about it like Clinton did. 

One thing I'm proud of is the response of the American people. I'm especially proud of the churches and synagoges throughout the country and all they are doing to help. We are just getting ready to send a truck out tonight with tons of baby formula, diapers and wipes.

I would like to sponsor a family myself, we have the room. How do I get in touch with someone who could give me info on how to do it?

Ron


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## dickm (May 19, 2002)

Someone described a horse show as : "a bunch of horses asses looking at a bunch of horses' asses." The head of FEMA, Mr Brown, was once the room-mate of the last head of FEMA. His last, and reportedly his highest, position was as a commissioner in the Arabian horse club. SO... the man in charge was once in charge of a bunch of horses asses and he lived up to his potential. Bush chose him and needs to take responsibility for him. 

Dickm


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## Tim Vaughan (Jun 23, 2002)

Ron, there are a number of site that match people with extra space and those needing it. One such is:

http://www.hurricanehousing.org/?TM


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## Tim Vaughan (Jun 23, 2002)

"I love America...where else on earth can people open up like this in a public forum without being hunted down by the government for speaking thier minds and magically disappearing off of the face of the earth?"

Some of you really need to get out more.


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## ChellesBees (Apr 1, 2003)

Ron, if you have metro phone- dial 211, the United Way helpline is working as a clearing house for hurricane related inquiries. I don't know if it works outside the metro though. There is also a state hotline- 651-297-1304, or 800-657-3504. See if either of these numbers work. 

I really can't help but think that all this fussing about relief not moving fast enough is unrealistic. We as citizens should be individually prepared to last for a couple days anyhow. How many in the north can survive for days if the snow gets too deep? We couldn't start evacuating until the storm stopped, and then it takes some time to assess the situation. There is no way-realistically-that we could evacuate any large city in this country as fast as they think we should. Just look at the rush hour in and out on any metro freeway.


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

ChellesBees, AMEN

Dickm, take it to tailgator, it's been said there already.

Tlm, it does happen in other countries, just like he says. He's only wrong in thinking it doesn't happen here.


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## TX Ashurst (May 31, 2005)

I'm with Butterchurn on the responsibility thing. My opinion is:

1. Nobody is ever prepared for a disaster. I worked in the cleanup in Okla. City after that big multi-twister a few years ago and nobody there was prepared, even though it is the corner of Main and Center Streets in Tornado Alley. I frankly admit that I am unprepared for the same, even though I live in a tornado-prone area. I know what to do and I keep a 72 hour kit, but I don't have a tornado shelter and a direct hit would be a disaster for me.

2. When all communication is gone, as happened in N.O., you can't coordinate relief because you don't have a way to contact people and determine who is in need.

3. Responsibility for all things follows a distinct progression that goes something like this:
a. Help yourself. (IMHO, this includes prayer and divine guidance)
b. Help from your family.
c. Help from your local community. I understand that N.O. has an emergency flood plan and that the mayor did not follow it.
d. Help from your state Gov't.
e. Help from your national Gov't.
f. Help from the U.N. (but don't hold your breath)

Locally, Dallas is receiving lots of evacuees and putting them into every kind of building that can be found. One of my friends has 12 refugees living with him. They are employees (with families) of his bro-in-law and he has known them for some time. The group includes 5 teenage boys, so his grocery bill is going to be interesting, and our church is assisting in that. He was told to expect to house them for up to 6 months. They were in the Superdome and they are telling some scary stories. They say that the officials who were in charge were there during the hurricane, but then went home for a break. By the time they tried to return, they couldn't get back because of the flooding so anarchy set in. They said they'd have to hit the floor every 10-15 minutes when gunfire broke out. Nobody stepped up to the plate to designate bathroom areas, so everybody went wherever they could find a semi-private corner and pretty soon every corner had been semi-private at one time or another. Since they were isolated, people who needed medicines couldn't get it. And keep in mind, that these are the people that were known to be there and in need. They got help first. There were hundreds of places with groups of people in designated shelters and nobody knows what was happening in them because there is no communication with them.

I have another friend who is a V.P. of Greyhound Buslines and is responsible for New Orleans. That has been an adventure. First, they have 220 employees that they have not had any contact with. Second, they gathered as many of their N.O. employees as they could find and had them gather with their families at their depot, where they all got on buses to go North and set up a temporary depot to serve their routes during the storm. Good move, but all their cars are back in N.O. and the water was 18 feet deep in the parking lot. Third, they have 114 buses dedicated to evacuating refugees, but the big, overriding obstacle was communications. You just couldn't talk to anybody. Cell towers shorted out. Land lines shorted out. Ambulances have satellite phones, but they reserve them for their emergency use and there aren't enough of them in place. Only a few locations with refugees were known outside N.O. So they'd send a bus in to pick up people, and tell the driver to try to spot other people for the next bus. That means it was hit or miss at best, but it was the best they could do.

At our local church, we were told that the immediate need is for cash. Not goods! Goods require manpower to sort and distribute and it is much less efficient than simply buying what is needed. Also, we were told to NOT go down to N.O. Anybody going down there just adds to the burden of housing, feeding, and supplying all the needs of a huge population without an infrastructure. And finally, we were told that we should be prepared to provide relief support for an extended period of time - 6 months or more. We expect we'll be involved in the cleanup there similarly to what we did in Okla. City, which was sifting through rubble and making 3 piles: garbage (very large pile), salvageable materials (small pile), and personal/valuable items (handkerchief-size pile). We do maintain semi-trailers equipped with water treatment units, food, tents, and sanitation kits. We sent those down to La. immediately and they will stay until there is no more need for them.

We are also dealing with lots of people who want to accept evacuees into their homes. This is a scary proposition. I had to deny one woman who is single with 3 small children. How could we let her accept strangers into her home and have any kind of assurance that she would be safe? No way! Not for a long-term commitment like this one. When there is a man in the house it is only a little better. It will happen as we move forward, but only as we identify and assess the people who need help. Some evacuees will never be safely housed in volunteer homes. For now, the public shelters provide for their basic needs. Long term we will find a way to help them all.

Looking at the above, it might sound like I am in charge of something, but I'm not. I am involved, but no more than hundreds of other people in the community. Going back to the responsibility chart above, we are an extended level c. We are the local community, even though N.O. is hundreds of miles away.


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## Jackbee (Aug 26, 2005)

Interesting reading strident and shrill comments from aound the country from folks who have little or no knowledge of the geography,geology, politics, lifestyles, attidudes, culture??? of living in South " French " Louisiana. As opposed to living in the Northern part of Louisiana which is really North of Interstate 10 and part of the rest of the ******* south who really don't count for much. We down here, in South Louisiana, are Cajuns, a different breed and some of us are beekeepers, namely me.

First we have 35 % Blacks here in the State and that translates into a large population of poor folks. Poor, uneducated, unsophisticated, uninterested in education and unable to realize that education is the key to upward mobility. I live around, at times worked with, drank with, conversed with, had Black employees, and generally have had good relations with but I don't seek to get overly involved with them. They are very limited, even the educated ones. 

If TV viewers would have taken note of the assembly of souls at the collection points or safe havens in New Orleans, they would or will see many women with many children and very few men hovering around. Virtually all are single mothers and some as young as 16 or even younger. One girl, 19, featured in a newspaper article, lost one of her kids, somewhere. Seems like the girl has 4 kids, 4 years old to 2 months old, all done before the ripe age of 19. 

I would say that most of the people you all saw on TV, trapped in the Dome and convention center were on some form of goverment assistance. Most live in projects " public housing " or on some sort of rent assisted programs. 

I wont belabor the point but suffice it to say that all those people are hardly in any financial position to be able to displace themselves even if they wanted too. 

There is a serious crime problem in New Orleans. In the general population, the school system, the sewerage and water board, the 7 tax assessors office, the district attorneys office,the mayors office, the regional transit authority and... corruption is a way of life. 
There is a drug problem, a pothole problem, a sanitaion problem, taxicab problem, very serious school problem, and well... Not unlike most of all large cities in this country.

The current Mayor is, so far, uncontaminated by corruption but his term is not up, yet. 

The city, New Orleans proper, the old city, is always in dire straights for funds to operate the city and has no spare money to finance evacuations for anyone and by law is not permitted to do so even if they wanted too. To think that an exodus of the city could have been accomplished using the school bus we see on TV, under water, is wishful thinking. School busses do not hold much fuel and those busses are probably not in the best of condition seeing as they belong to the New Orleans school system and an evacuation using them would have been a dangerous undertaking. 

The protection of the city, or low lying areas, has been a works in progress since 1965 or after Hurricane Betsy. Since the wherewithal, the funds, must come from the Feds there are of course competing needs from all of your individual states also wanting funds for this and that. It's our way of doing things in this Democratic system in which we live and if you all would sit back and think things through about how we do things with our political dispensation you should be able to come to realize that if we had " good goverment " we would not like it maybe.

Where was I during the BLOW? About 35 miles, as the crow flies, due west from New Orleans. My wife and I stayed put,IN OUR HOUSE, I, by choice, she against my advice, but we rode it out. The Katrina winds were around 100 mph or so and the old homestead did good. However after I was convinced the the storm would proceed on the predicted path, I was convinced that we would be OK. We were on the west side, left side or good side of the storm's wrath. We are not prone to flodding around our house being 3 or 4 feet above sea and forty or so miles inland from the Gulf. Had I been faced with different circumstances I would have reacted accordingly. I have never left home for past storms but I take them as the come and would leave evecuate if I felt the situation too risky. So far I have come out OK. I would not have stuck around in the MS coast for this one however. I have vision of Hurricane Camille's destruction in 1969, which I observed shortly after, and the MS coast is not a good place to be. The destruction is more intense this time around simply because there was more to destroy after all the development since 1969. Progress you know..

I am also confident in our current weather reporting system and find it to be accurate and consistant but it is not an exact science. 

The geography and geology. This terrain in South LA does not allow for travel at random or in most any direction as can be done in most parts of the country. We must travel on the roads and there are few going into New Orleans. Actually there are four,all close together, with I 10 providing entrance and exit from east and west. All of the roads are prone to flooding depending on the tides and winds. You cannot use all terrain vehicles and set off cross country as you can in other parts of the country. One can go by water but most folks are not equipped, mentally, and physically to handle boats so that is not a viable alernative.

People live where they want too live, it's their property and we have this sacred concept of " property rights " in this country. I could cite many examples of people living in precarious places in this country so New Orleans is not an exception. 

As far as the relief effort I see it as par for the course. I spent 22 years in the US Army and I can say with some authority that large operations just do not jump up and start running. The Army is a top down command, orders are given and obeyed. Whereas we have a political structure in the civil world that we have elected and the elected are who they are, good and bad. The pols have egos, are power hungry, love their asses being kissed, do not like to cede control of their domains, and are novices mostly when it comes to an event like Katrina. Personally I think we see the response as pretty normal, so take heed. You, as a responsible person, form your own rescue plan for your own circumstances, and don't wait for someone too bail you out in event of any adverse circumstances in your lives

Oh, my bees, came through fine but I took protective measures. A fellow beek didn't and his hives were knocked down/blown over. Mine were well protected and hardly missed whatever beats bees beat on.

Richard Parr Lockport, LA.


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## Jackbee (Aug 26, 2005)

Interesting reading strident and shrill comments from around the country from folks who have little or no knowledge of the geography,geology, politics, lifestyles, attidudes, culture??? of living in South " French " Louisiana. As opposed to living in the Northern part of Louisiana which is really North of Interstate 10 and part of the rest of the ******* south who really don't count for much. We down here, in South Louisiana, are Cajuns, a different breed and some of us are beekeepers, namely me.

First we have 35 % Blacks here in the State and that translates into a large population of poor folks. New Orleans is 65 % Black, many are poor, uneducated, unsophisticated, uninterested in education and unable to realize that education is the key to upward mobility,or so it seems. I live around, at times worked with, drank with, conversed with, had Black employees,had them steal from me, but generally have had good relations with them. However I don't seek to get overly involved with them. They are very limited, even the educated ones. 

If TV viewers would have taken note of the assembly of souls at the collection points or safe havens in New Orleans, they should have seen many women with many children and very few men hovering around. Virtually all are single mothers and some as young as 16 or even younger. One girl, 19, featured in a local newspaper article, lost one of her kids, somewhere. Seems like the girl has 4 kids, 4 years old to 2 months old, all done before the ripe age of 19.The girl is not an unusual execption. Black men pop and hop. 

I would say that most of the people you all saw on TV, trapped in the Dome and convention center were on some form of goverment assistance. Most live in projects " public housing " or on some sort of rent assisted programs. Or they live one on top of the other in a family members house. There is NO SPARE MONEY for evacuations. Now the taxpayers have to further provide for them and probably far into the future. 

I wont belabor the point but suffice it to say that all those people are hardly in any financial position to be able to displace themselves even if they wanted too. 

There is a serious crime problem in New Orleans. In the general population, the school system, the sewerage and water board, the 7 tax assessors office, the district attorneys office,the mayors office, the regional transit authority and... corruption is a way of life. 
There is a drug problem, a pothole problem, a sanitaion problem, taxicab problem, very serious school problem, and well... Not unlike most of all large cities in this country.

The current Mayor is, so far, uncontaminated by corruption but his term is not up, yet. 

The city, New Orleans proper, the old city, is always in dire straights for funds to operate the city and has no spare money to finance evacuations for anyone and by law is not permitted to do so even if they wanted too. To think that an exodus of the city could have been accomplished using the school bus we see on TV, under water, is wishful thinking. School busses do not hold much fuel and those busses are probably not in the best of condition seeing as they belong to the New Orleans school system and an evacuation using them would have been a dangerous undertaking.

The state has a huge medicaid liability also. Poor people are unhealthy people generally. 

The protection of the city, or low lying areas, has been a works in progress since 1965 or after Hurricane Betsy. Since the wherewithal, the funds, must come from the Feds there are of course competing needs from all of your individual states also wanting funds for this and that. It's our way of doing things in this Democratic system in which we live and if you all would sit back and think things through about how we do things with our political dispensation you should be able to come to realize that if we had " good goverment " we would not like it, maybe.

Where was I during the BLOW? About 35 miles, as the crow flies, due west from New Orleans. My wife and I stayed put,IN OUR HOUSE, I, by choice, she against my advice, but we rode it out. The Katrina winds were around 100 mph or so and the old homestead did good. However after I was convinced the the storm would proceed on the predicted path, I was convinced that we would be OK. We were on the west side, left side or good side of the storm's wrath. We are not prone to flodding around our house being 3 or 4 feet above sea and forty or so miles inland from the Gulf. Had I been faced with different circumstances I would have reacted accordingly. I have never left home for past storms but I take them as the come and would evecuate if I felt the situation too risky. So far I have come out OK. I would not have stuck around in the MS coast for this one however. I have vision of Hurricane Camille's destruction in 1969, which I observed shortly after, and the MS coast was not a good place to be. The destruction is more intense this time around simply because there was more to destroy after all the development since 1969. Progress you know..

I am also confident in our current weather reporting system and find it to be accurate and consistant but it is not an exact science. 

The geography and geology. This terrain in South LA does not allow for travel at random or in most any direction as can be done in most parts of the country. We must travel on the roads and there are few going into New Orleans. Actually there are four,all close together, with I 10 providing entrance and exit from east and west. All of the roads are prone to flooding depending on the tides and winds. You cannot use all terrain vehicles and set off cross country as you can in other parts of the country. One can go by water but most folks are not equipped, mentally, and physically to handle boats so that is not a viable alernative.

People live where they want too live, it's their property and we have this sacred concept of " property rights " in this country. I could cite many examples of people living in precarious places in this country so New Orleans is not an exception. 

As far as the relief effort I see it as par for the course. I spent 22 years in the US Army and I can say with some authority that large operations just do not jump up and start running. The Army is a top down command, orders are given and obeyed. Whereas we have a political structure in the civil world that we have elected and the elected are who they are, good and bad. The pols have egos, are power hungry, love their asses being kissed, do not like to cede control of their domains, and are novices mostly when it comes to an event like Katrina. Personally I think we see the response as pretty normal, so take heed. You, as a responsible person, form your own rescue plan for your own circumstances, and don't wait for someone too bail you out in event of any adverse circumstances in your lives

Oh, my bees, came through fine but I took protective measures. A fellow beek didn't and his hives were knocked down/blown over. Mine were well protected and hardly missed whatever beats bees beat on.

Richard Parr Lockport, LA.


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## SleepyHollow (Sep 18, 2004)

They bragged about New Orleans beeing below sea leavel for the last 400 years. Then all of a sudden it was not. Thats a long time to prepair. This time when they build it I hope they are smart enough to raise it above sea leavel. Bill


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

Jackbee, if your understanding of Race is par for the course for Cajuns, I'm proud to be a part of the "******* south" where white and black generally have learned to appreciate one another. Race does not make someone "limited" as you described.


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## Robert Hawkins (May 27, 2005)

Mike I just assumed I read that wrong. I I'm not going to re-read it.

Hawk


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>They bragged about New Orleans beeing below sea leavel for the last 400 years. 

The Dutch have been bragging about being below sea level for way more than a thousand years. The Netherlands isn't a city, it's a whole country.


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