# Have a queen, no eggs or brood



## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

It is very easy to mistake the shine of royal jelly with a very small larvae floating in it for honey on new comb. Take a look next week -- it often takes a week or so for the queen to feed back up and start laying reliably after having been "banked", especially if she was stuck in the cage for a while.

Next week you will probably see small larvae and possibly some capped brood, starting in the middle of the frame. 

In the very worst case you will have a drone layer, and it will be obvious by the large amount of drone brood, but I suspect you have eggs and larvae but don't recognize them.

Peter


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## Slow Drone (Apr 19, 2014)

If you used your smoker it's normal for some of the bees to stick their head in a cell,you'll always see that.From eggs to capped worker cells takes ten days just so you know the timing.Another eleven before they hatch 21 days total.You won't see what you see in pictures once the light hits her.I should say rarely.I don't look for the flower pattern,I look for that shiny thorax,long pointy butt,her movement catches my eye more than anything.She runs on the comb as in a bigger hurry than the rest of the bees.


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

It can take the queen 10 days or more to start laying once she has gotten released from the cage. I would say to wait another week before getting too worried.


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## Mbalboa (Apr 21, 2014)

All, thanks for your help. I'll take your advice and wait another week before getting too nervous. Thanks again!


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## mpgreer (Feb 25, 2014)

just to +1. i'm in the same boat as you in two new hives. i've spotted the queen, but no eggs. the workers "seem" happy, busy. bringing in pollen, nectar, building new wax. the weather has been so up and down, they might be just trying to figure out if it's spring or not. not much to do other than wait another couple weeks.


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## Mbalboa (Apr 21, 2014)

Just an update: Here are two pictures from my hive yesterday. I think everything looks good and you were all right. I just don't know how to find eggs yet. One of my frames (one over from the one pictured) had a considerable amount of drone brood on it. I don't know if that's unusual, but it was just an observation. Thanks again, everyone, for your help.


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## franktrujillo (Jan 22, 2009)

some are drone but some are workers as well


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## frazzledfozzle (May 26, 2010)

I dont like the look of your brood, theres far too much drone brood and when you enlarge the photos there are dead larvae in a slumped "c" shape at the top of the cells very much like half moon syndrome or EFB.

Theres also drone brood being uncapped and eaten. Just dosn't look good to me


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## Slow Drone (Apr 19, 2014)

New queens will often lay a lot of drones but wil taper off.VSH would explain uncapped brood being eaten.EFB would be rare in a newly installed package.I don't see any tell tale signs of EFB or Half Moon virus.Frame probably got bumped dislodging larvae.


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## Mbalboa (Apr 21, 2014)

I brushed some bees away and may have inadvertently punctured some of the cappings. I'm not sure if that's what you're seeing. There did seem to be a fair amount of drone brood, more than I expected. Will the bees decide if they need to supersede?


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## Slow Drone (Apr 19, 2014)

If she's laying more drones than they like they'll supercede if they have the larvae they need.Sometimes you get a drone layer.If that's what she ends up doing call your supplier and they'll replace her.


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## Mbalboa (Apr 21, 2014)

Okay. How long do I wait before checking again and making a decision about whether or not there are too many drones?


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## frazzledfozzle (May 26, 2010)

Mbalboa said:


> I brushed some bees away and may have inadvertently punctured some of the cappings. I'm not sure if that's what you're seeing. ?


No thats not what Im seeing. That brood is in my opinion is dodgy.


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## Slow Drone (Apr 19, 2014)

Inspect every 7 days is normal.If she's still laying like that replace her. As frank trujillo pointed out there is some worker brood. She's probably just getting the drones out of her system as some would say.


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## Mbalboa (Apr 21, 2014)

Thanks very much for your help. I have another question. The pictures I've seen of brood usually show a darker, tan capping. The cappings in my picture or sort of light-yellow to white. Why the difference?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>The pictures I've seen of brood usually show a darker, tan capping. The cappings in my picture or sort of light-yellow to white. Why the difference? 

Brood cappings have to breathe. In an established hive the brood cappings are made of a mixture of wax and chewed out cocoons. The cocoons are brown, so the cappings are brown. When a hive is first starting there are no cocoons to work with, so the cappings are made from a mixture of pollen and wax. This makes them very light colored, usually cream or light yellow but it can vary depending on the pollen source. This is one of the many things discovered and proven by Huber 200 years ago...

http://www.bushfarms.com/huber.htm


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## Mbalboa (Apr 21, 2014)

Awesome, thanks very much for the explanation.


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## Mbalboa (Apr 21, 2014)

Hello All,

So it's been about a week and a half since the pictures above were posted. I was hoping that when I opened my hive today I would see more, better looking capped brood. this was not the case. See the images below. I don't know what order the pictures are going to post in, but the first two should be of a frame that may or may not have a queen cell forming on it. It sticks out a bit in the upper left hand corner of the pictures, and it looked to be full of jelly. It's really difficult to see in the pictures, they're pretty blurry. The next couple pictures are of a frame of brood, really the only frame. There are very few capped cells, fewer than a week and a half ago. There are lots of larvae around the outer edges, particularly in the lower right hand of the pictures. 

I'm just looking for some opinions. It's now four weeks since hiving my package. If those are queen cells and they're planning to supercede, do I just let them? I'm worried there will be no nurse bees left by the time the new queen lays.


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## rweakley (Jul 2, 2004)

Mbalboa said:


> Hello All,
> 
> So it's been about a week and a half since the pictures above were posted. I was hoping that when I opened my hive today I would see more, better looking capped brood. this was not the case. See the images below. I don't know what order the pictures are going to post in, but the first two should be of a frame that may or may not have a queen cell forming on it. It sticks out a bit in the upper left hand corner of the pictures, and it looked to be full of jelly. It's really difficult to see in the pictures, they're pretty blurry. The next couple pictures are of a frame of brood, really the only frame. There are very few capped cells, fewer than a week and a half ago. There are lots of larvae around the outer edges, particularly in the lower right hand of the pictures.
> 
> ...


Some of that is just the bees making goofy wax (I thought they never did that on foundation? :lookout: LOL) The rest with out a closer look into the cells is either horrible brood pattern or brood that has emerged and the queen has relaid. If it's the former I'd want a new queen pronto.


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## frazzledfozzle (May 26, 2010)

As I said before your brood is dodgy. Have you sighted the queen? 

I wouldnt rely on getting a decent supercedure queen out if any queencells built using the larvae available in this hive.

If you want the hive to survive you will need to get a new queen asap.


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## CtyAcres (Apr 8, 2012)

Mbalboa- If the queen is there, she is a drone layer and should be replaced. Just my opinion.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I agree if there is a queen she is a drone layer. If there are multiple eggs, then I would assume laying workers.


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## Mbalboa (Apr 21, 2014)

I picked up a new queen today and will be requeening as soon as possible. I did see one cell with two eggs. The rest had one. Not sure what to make of that. 

The queen supplier said to remove the current queen and then wait a day before putting the new one in. Is this the best way? How do I keep my caged queen alive? Should i direct release her or hang the cage?


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## Mbalboa (Apr 21, 2014)

frazzledfozzle said:


> As I said before your brood is dodgy. Have you sighted the queen?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You were correct. I have sighted my queen each time in the hive.


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## frazzledfozzle (May 26, 2010)

Your queen should have come with attendants in the cage she will be fine with them for a few days keep her in a warm place but not in the sun of course.
You can knock the old queen off and introduce the new queen in her cage in s couple of hours. 

I dont know what type of cage shes in but with all cages its important to have her in the brood area with the mesh facing away from the comb so the bees can feed her and her pheromone can be spread through the hive.

I wouldnt wait around to get her in Id do it as soon as you can


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## Jim Rieck (Jun 10, 2012)

I agree with RWeakly. I think you have (and have always had) queen problems. She should really have started laying within a few days, she should be laying without gaps, and she should be laying workers. If it were me, I would go for another queen. This one shows signs of not being very well mated.


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## Mbalboa (Apr 21, 2014)

I requeened a few hours ago. I bought a queen, brought her home and she was with a few attendants. I put her in my basement for about two hours. When I got the cage to hive her, she and the attendants were barely moving. They were fine when I left them. I'm not sure what happened. I hived her either way, I guess I'll see what happens. Maybe she got cold? It's about 70 in the basement, maybe a tad under.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

70 will not cause lethargy in bees. 50 is on the border line.


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## Mbalboa (Apr 21, 2014)

I'll be checking today to see that she is alive. I'll check the cage. If she has been let out, is that evidence enough that all is well, or should I find her?


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