# Beesource - What's it good for?



## jbeshearse (Oct 7, 2009)

For the beekeeping hobbyist, 100% of the basics you need to learn FROM READING can be found at Michael Bush’s website – for free. There is really nothing else that you need to learn before you physically see, touch, smell the equipment, crack open that first hive and let the bees crawl over your fingertips, that will help you in your endeavor. 

So now you all read up, got your equipment and bees, and understand what the words actually mean and just how far they can take you. If it is your desire to go beyond the basics or if you want to share your enthusiasm, your successes, your failures, in comes Beesource and other sites like it. Personally, I think Beesource is the absolute best beekeeping forum in existence, and I have spent large amounts of time on all manner of sites. Is it perfect, no, it is made up of thousands of un-perfect people, so why do we think it should be perfect. Take it with all its imperfections, at the end of the day you are better off than without it.

Nothing rankles a veteran more than a novice brimming with unbounded and sometimes misguided enthusiasm, questioning the vets every action. Nothing steals a novice’s enthusiasm as much as an idea that is summarily discarded with no valid reasoning given. Just as 100% of basic information is on Bush’s site, 95% of everything “new” to beekeeping in any given year has actually already been tried and disproven. It’s not in use, because it did not work. But that should not mean that we discard the other 5%. That 5% can be game changing. And that 5% will most likely come from novice beekeepers with novel ideas. It has been proven that a human’s most inventive and creative time of life is when we are in our early 20’s. Probably 90% of veteran beekeepers are over the age of 60, what does that tell you about where the new good ideas are going to come from?

The secret of getting the most out of Beesource (or any site like it) is proper use. For each individual, this will be somewhat different. But general guidelines are that you need to find those that most mirror your current desires. Share with them and learn from them. The rest is just background noise really. If I want to become a large commercial beekeeper, why would I solicit advice from a small hobbyist with less than hundreds of hives? If all I ever intend to do is keep 20 or so hives or less, why do I want to seek advice from that old guy that has 1000’s? Find those that are where you want to be and introduce yourself. For all the others, listen politely, glean what applies to you can and discard the balance. It does not mean that advice is not valid for their operation; it just does not apply as well to yours or visa versa. This is not utopia; there is no silver bullet, no spoon, and no blue pill. All advice is not equal and all advice is not tried and true. You must base your acceptance on the givers experience and honesty.

But also know and understand this is an open forum, while most here are honorable, nice, and are filled with goodwill for fellow beekeepers; there are those that are decidedly none of those. There are those who argue for the sake of argument. Worst of all are those that try to boost their egos at any cost (including suppression of alternate methods/ideologies, deception/lies and revising history to cast themselves and their practices in a better light). The hallmark of this person is that at the end of the day, they will only acknowledge that which affirms their way or method, they do not seek knowledge, only ego boosting affirmation. 

Please share your enthusiasm, your knowledge, your ideas, we all benefit.

In closing this out I will say this and add it as my tagline:
M
“Unsolicited advice is seldom appreciated and even less often taken


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## D Semple (Jun 18, 2010)

That was 60 seconds I'd like back


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

Nice post and I agree with a lot of it. 

Except:

_95% of everything “new” to beekeeping in any given year has actually already been tried and disproven. It’s not in use, because it did not work. But that should not mean that we discard the other 5%. That 5% can be game changing. And that 5% will most likely come from novice beekeepers with novel ideas. It has been proven that a human’s most inventive and creative time of life is when we are in our early 20’s. Probably 90% of veteran beekeepers are over the age of 60, what does that tell you about where the new good ideas are going to come from?_

I would say 99.99% of everything "new" to beekeeping has actually already been tried and disproven. There is always room for improvement and invention, but people have been keeping bees for 1000's of years. There is not much that has not been examined in minute-detail multiple times by really smart and creative people. That doesn't mean stop trying, just, know your beekeeping history.

and

Most of the new things in beekeeping come from the grizzled veterans who have been studying bees for a long time. Consequently, if you are a rookie (of which I am one) and think you have discovered something new, best to do a lot of research to confirm that it truly is new rather than a product of your (understandable) ignorance of beekeeping (of which I am plagued by, too).

JHMO





.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

jbeshearse said:


> For the beekeeping hobbyist, 100% of the basics you need to learn FROM READING can be found at Michael Bush’s website – for free. There is really nothing else that you need to learn before you physically see, touch, smell the equipment, crack open that first hive and let the bees crawl over your fingertips, that will help you in your endeavor.


I disagree. Michael Bush is treatment free and readily advocates his philosophy for all. Not all can accomplish what Michael has; we all wish we could. One also needs to look at other options before deciding to follow his philosophy. A good read is Randy Oliver at ScientificBeekeeping.com. 
Basing your beginnings on one read person's viewpoint, particularly when many have tried and failed, IMO is not the proper way to start beekeeping.


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## Robbin (May 26, 2013)

snl said:


> I disagree. Michael Bush is treatment free and readily advocates his philosophy for all. Not all can accomplish what Michael has; we all wish we could. One also needs to look at other options before deciding to follow his philosophy. A good read is Randy Oliver at ScientificBeekeeping.com.
> Basing your beginnings on one read person's viewpoint, particularly when many have tried and failed, IMO is not the proper way to start beekeeping.


I love to read Beesource, I learn something new all the time. I love to read Michael Bush's responses in particular, but I'm not TF. Michael has a great bedside manner for us novices and hobbyists.

The list of people I love to read is fairly long, SNL is on that list and my ignore list is fairly short.

Thanks Beesource for all you do...


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

jbeshearse said:


> If all I ever intend to do is keep 20 or so hives or less, why do I want to seek advice from that old guy that has 1000’s?


Why? well one reason could be that the guy with thousands started with less than 20, or even just one hive, and was spectacularly successful. One example could be Tim Ives, hasn't hit thousands yet but heading that way.
A newby should emulate success, rather than categorise someone by age, philosophy, or whatever.


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## Kiddkop (Sep 18, 2014)

I am a HUGE fan of Bush's website....but there is a problem with your philosophy. In my short tenure as a beekeeper, I have found that beekeeping is very geographic. And it is a very small area that can change dramatically. Therefore, much of the advice Bush gives does not apply in east Texas at the same time of year. Some never applies. So, I have came to the conclusion that every beekeeper that has more than 2 hives successfully through at least 1 winter can offer me advice. Some applies, some doesn't. I went from 2 hives to 30 in 1 yr, so I am having to change some of my views on the fly!


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## Cloverdale (Mar 26, 2012)

Another one that I personally have learned from besides Michael Bush, Michael Palmer is Lauri Miller. Very innovative. AND lots of others on BS too. Including you Old Timer!


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

D Semple said:


> That was 60 seconds I'd like back


You read fast.


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## Redbug (Feb 8, 2014)

A good part of beekeeping is the social aspect...the people. Half the fun is the bees and the other half is the bee people. That's why we are all relating and on BS.


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## burns375 (Jul 15, 2013)

Overall beesource is a great reSource But just like anything on the internet, you'll need to weed thru the bs and poor practices. The repeat super simple questions get old too


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

A back yard beek and a commercial beek have completely different goals but to say one can not learn from the other is a closed mind. I am truly a backyard beek but I would have to say I have learned most of what I know from people who have lots of hives and lots of experience. That doesn't mean to say I haven't learned anything from newbies or people with just a few hives. Why would you limit your learning resources? That is what makes Beesource shine.


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## Hops Brewster (Jun 17, 2014)

Two things I've learned in my 1 year (so far) experience in honey beekeeping. First, there are certain universal truths common to most all beekeeping practices. Second, there are as many ways of doing things as there are beekeepers. 
As much knowledge as I have gained from Mr. Bush's website, I have learned just as much from others, including Scientific Beekeeper and even Beekeeping for Dummies, just for starters. One must not confuse universal FACTS with individual METHODS.

There are also a multitude of different ways of describing and/or defining facts, as well as a multitude of different ways of describing and/or defining methods. What might be written on "Joesbeesite.bom may be complete gibberish to a newb, but said newb can find not only another, but usually several other description, instructions, or suggestions on beesource, simply by asking another stupid question (for the umpteenth time!). Even Mr. Bush will reiterate using different words from what he has written on his website in order to give some clarity to a confused newb.

Of what value is Beesource? Immense! I am grateful to all those experienced beekeepers who are so patient, willing and able to share their expertise with us beginners. I'm even grateful to the impatient ones. :applause:


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## Robbin (May 26, 2013)

Cloverdale said:


> Another one that I personally have learned from besides Michael Bush, Michael Palmer is Lauri Miller. Very innovative. AND lots of others on BS too. Including you Old Timer!


+1 on Lauri Miller, I wish she was on beesource as much as she once was...


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## Cloverdale (Mar 26, 2012)

Robbin said:


> +1 on Lauri Miller, I wish she was on beesource as much as she once was...


Go to her Facebook page, I believe it's Miller Compound, something like that.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Could the OP please report back in 5 years and review their feeling tword the old futzers with all the commercial hives and the inventions used by all, and compare to the contributions of the young neophytes?

Crazy Roland, 5th gen beekeeper


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## jbeshearse (Oct 7, 2009)

Roland said:


> Could the OP please report back in 5 years and review their feeling tword the old futzers with all the commercial hives and the inventions used by all, and compare to the contributions of the young neophytes?
> 
> Crazy Roland, 5th gen beekeeper


Sure, No problems there, by that time I will be the 60 year old futzer myself. 

I said "new inventions" The old futzers, as you call them, are responsible for about a billion useful timesaving methods, etc. New inventions in beekeeping are rare unless they are to address a new problem. If it is a new problem, then the "old futzers" are probably the ones that will come up with a solution as their livelyhood depends on it. Innovations will come from the newbys though, because "old futzers" tend to continue to do what works.

Tell me Roland, just how many truly innovative beekeeping inventions did you come up with in the past 12 months? 

Also, don't miss the word "basics" in the very first sentence as Bush covers the "basics" very well. While many may consider testing for varroa and understanding economic thresholds, etc as basic beekeeping, it is anything but basic to a novice. Too many times the novice it told "treat em" with little explantion of how to decide, etc.

You know, it is the little things that the veterans do without even thinking about it that make the most difference for beginners. If there was a single thead to address all those little things, then the beginners would truly benefit, as well as some of the more seasoned keepers.

Please do not misunderstand my post. I have nothing but admiration for commercial beekeepers, but a lot of what you have already forgotten about being small, is just what the new guys need. There is a lot of crappy advice to be found on the web when it comes to beekeeping and new beekeepers are ill equipped to weed out the bad from the good. So they pick what appeals to them, be it wrong or right. In time we all decide what works for us and what does not.

"Unsolicited advice is rarly appreciated and even less often taken"
jbeshearse
www.elliebhoney.com


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

D Semple said:


> That was 60 seconds I'd like back


I skimmed it, only lost 30 seconds 

I've learned the most from commercials, face to face, and once we get past the "oh you're a new-age, hippy beekeeper who doesn't treat his bees" things go pretty smoothly. I don't plan on being commercial, sideliner maybe, but not commercial. Things change though. Where else would I get to see how bees are moved en mass, decappers, BIG extractors, honey settling tanks, and mostly just good ol' wisdom that rings true if you have 1 hive or 15000. Quite honestly, if I had a beekeeper that I could choose to talk to it would be a commercial or a sideliner. And they're light years ahead of where I am.


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

In my short tenure, beekeeping is an never ending lesson. Who had it all figured out the first year? I'm pretty sure most people that are surfing a blog for insight are well enough equipped to filter the information. Plus, I think people are here by choice.......... Aint no shackles.......... G

Read the whole thing, lost 64 secs.


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## Dave1958 (Mar 25, 2013)

Yes you are right about "rookies" dispensing advise. However, it's also mentioned all beekeeping is local. I've had hard luck losses. I feel due to bees being unprepared for winter. I've looked for answers, and feel in middle America I have more in common with northern beekers than southern ones. I'm also watching how mites may be involved in this. All said I read most all threads as I may have similar issues and have to solve them in yard. Knowledge is king, and information is power. While Michael Bush is quoted frequently, I'm not him, but I listen and try to understand what advise he gives. But he's in a different area. I listened to you tube to a known personality, he said bees will make enough honey off goldenrod to survive- but I had 30 inches of snow this winter. If a "rookie" is quoting something he's heard that's ok. If he's wrong someone will call him on it.


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## blamb61 (Apr 24, 2014)

Nevermind


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Oh Roland does not call himself CRAZY for no reason. To use some of his ideas and 'inventions' you need to know more than basic beekeeping...


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## Andrew Dewey (Aug 23, 2005)

BeeSource can be great - but it is not really appropriate as the _*only*_ source of information on learning how to keep bees.

I no longer encourage new beekeepers in my classes to "do" BeeSource or any of the public beekeeping forums on Facebook. I started this year having closed Facebook groups for my classes - one class has used theirs extensively one hasn't. So the jury is still out.

I may be somewhat old fashioned but I think the best way to get exposed to the fundamentals is hands on with someone else. Clubs and classes rock for this purpose! Club Open Hives? Superb!


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I'm just here for the endorphins.


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## Andrew Dewey (Aug 23, 2005)

sqkcrk said:


> I'm just here for the endorphins.


I think you've paid in full for every one you get! :applause:


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Andrew Dewey said:


> I may be somewhat old fashioned but I think the best way to get exposed to the fundamentals is hands on with someone else.


It makes it easier if two people are looking at the same thing and the mentor can explain to an observer what they are looking at. No doubt about it. But the best way to learn is from a group and if the only way that you can reach a group is through beesource then that is your best option. I am old fashioned too.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

I don't read beesource for it's reliability or it's accuracy. Sorry but you can't have endless opinions and expect accuracy. I read it to stay updated. what are others finding worth talking about. I am able to read the reports from other areas and pretty accurately anticipate what will be happening here from them.


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## Cloverdale (Mar 26, 2012)

sqkcrk said:


> I'm just here for the endorphins.


A product of wrestling with pigs and beating dead horses? :lookout:


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## Fergus (Jan 27, 2015)

when you go into a grocery store you are not obligated to buy everything, just pick and choose what you want and leave the rest on the shelf.


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

If Jim Lyon, Palmer, Old Timer, are giving advice, I read it. They and a few others provide consistent good advice over a wide range of beekeeping topics from personal experience. On BeeMaster you have JP, Idee, ... Some really successful beekeepers are on these boards and if you so desire you can actually speak to them. These forums have various topics that can be easily searched using a search function even by non-members. What's Beesource good for? Really?


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

> What's Beesource good for? Really?


It is good for entertainment. I can read here for an hour and learn about newbees, oldbees, and tweenbees and once in a while I can answer a question. There are a few serious - and practical - beekeepers that post here. There have been a few scam artists and one or two businesses that were a bit too shady. I've been reading here for 11 years now and I still come back. That says something must be worth the effort.


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## Margot1d (Jun 23, 2012)

D Semple said:


> That was 60 seconds I'd like back


:applause:


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

rwurster said:


> On BeeMaster you have JP, Idee, ... Some really successful beekeepers are on these boards and if you so desire you can actually speak to them.


You can speak to anyone here. BeeMaster is censored. For the most part Beesource is not. If a forum is censored it is not a forum, it is a club. Anyone who wants to hear anyone's thoughts should be a member of beesource. Or, go join the club. For six months I got hammered to come back to BeeMaster. Why? Why would I do that? What can you learn from a closed mind?


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

I learned good beekeeping on here, in books, & magazines.


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

Acebird said:


> You can speak to anyone here. BeeMaster is censored


BeeMaster is a bit more tightly moderated and no, not everyone is on Beesource. I enjoy the shenanigans here and do log onto BeeSource more than any other beekeeping forum.



Acebird said:


> For six months I got hammered to come back to BeeMaster.


I remember when you aggravated so many people over there you left. Never heard of them wanting you to come back :lpf: :gh:


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

rwurster said:


> BeeMaster is a bit more tightly moderated and no, not everyone is on Beesource. I enjoy the shenanigans here and do log onto BeeSource more than any other beekeeping forum.
> 
> 
> 
> I remember when you aggravated so many people over there you left. Never heard of them wanting you to come back :lpf: :gh:


iddee asked me to come back to beemaster so he and E.t. Ash could keep in touch with me. But when I tried to register I got no response. Maybe not everyone is welcome there as much as they appear to be here.


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

Really? You are unwelcome at Beemaster Mark? G


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Haha, Graham.

I don't know. Never heard back.


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

I use both, but it seems I'm here more. Some great folks over there. Lots of wisdom, just like here. G


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Jb... What have I invented in the last 12 months??? The pending projects are data collection, an uncapping machine, a variation on a radial extractor, and a 6 cyl 2.5 lt turbo diesel mated to a RT6610 for the beekeeping truck. Sorry, no denials, that WOULD be crazy.

In the past, I helped my father with the development of the bee blower, and my Grandfather had 2 patents, an insulated/ventilated roof(once produced by Kelly?), and a level drain bottom board, which we still build.

Be aware that a good beekeeper may not be showing you all of his cards, and that those showing all their cards may not have the best hands. I find one of your heroes to be rather myopic and often question the depth of his experience, although he means well.


Crazy Roland


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## StingerMcStung (Apr 27, 2015)

This site has been invaluable to someone who googled 'beekeeping' just for for gits & shiggles. I was probably in micro-hydro/tesla-coils/my-God-get-a-life topics and saw a link and then was captivated by the little animals (not ya'all, the bees.)

I've learned so much from noobs, hobbyists, side-liners, and commercial big boys. 

Thank you for the tips/pics/info/and: "good luck with that" posts to save us less mistakes.

Hopefully, I can pay it forward someday when I can implement said advice.

Roland: right on. Had crazy inventor relatives as well, unfortunately I didn't get the 'inventor' part. Grandfather invented the cotton bale in Wasco, CA and then they elected him mayor; must have lots of nuts there. 

/salute Beesource


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

It's interesting to me that there are two Threads running simultaneously pretty much discussing the same ideas. This one and "No Apologies ..."


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## jbeshearse (Oct 7, 2009)

sqkcrk said:


> It's interesting to me that there are two Threads running simultaneously pretty much discussing the same ideas. This one and "No Apologies ..."


I actually started this one as a counterpoint to the "No Apologies". Evidentally it was taken as an afront to seasoned beekeepers, which it was decidedly not meant to do. What I was really trying to say here and it seems lost, is:

For the new people, it is all new and exciting and they are full of new ideas. So when a veteran discounts the idea because they know its already been tried and is in use or failed and discarded, they come across as dream crushers and "old futzes". For the veterans, tact is often needed to soften the blow and many just simply do not use that tact. For the Newbies, they need to understand the veterans. When you come in and tell someone that has spent years and years doing something a certain way, it also requires tact and the the understanding that what you are selling has very likely been tried and discarded already. Not all but most. 

Veterans are faced with the decision: Be the bad guy and crush a dream/idea or be a bad guy and let the newby needlessly make the mistakes. This is not always the case, but more often than not feelings get hurt and positions become entrenched, which is good for nobody.

Newbies are faced with the decision: Forward an idea/thought and possibly be ridiculed, or remain silent. Just as above, This is not always the case, but more often than not feelings get hurt and positions become entrenched, which is good for nobody.


I Think Beesource is the best site available for sharing information and just general beekeeping discussions. 

jeb

"Unsolicited advice is seldom taken and even less often appreciated"


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## jbeshearse (Oct 7, 2009)

Roland.... I don't mean to minimize your inventions or innovations. However, we all data collect, and hopefully all try to improve on the status quo. Some are better at it than others. I am still trying to come up with a bottom board that truly suits my needs.

As for Heroes in beekeeping, I do not have any. I will say that before I started keeping bees I read volumes of beekeeping publications, including the ABC-XYZ, Beginning beekeeping, The beekeepers handbook, beesource extensively, other beekeeping forums, Bush's site, local sideliner beekeepers and many other sources. But pretty much 100% of the BASIC beekeeing methods and equipment that I started with were contained on Bush's site. I don't agree with all he has to say and do not follow many of his methods. But for BASIC beekeeping he pretty much has it covered. As we evolve as beekeepers we need more than basics, and that is the real value of Beesource, as well as social aspect of it. 

Look at the thread I started on "billion little things that make a beekeepers life easier" Not much imput there. Why is that? Do we want to help, or just be cannonized?


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## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

I am very grateful for Beesource for helping me gain a good basic understanding of beekeeping. I am also grateful for members such as Vance G and Ian who have taken time to respond to private message questions. I also miss Honeyshack who always gratiously answered Newbee questions 

I do find the number of post that are happening almost unmanageable. Must be ???200 or more each day. Hard to find the time to stay ahead. Think the moderator job must be pretty onerous.

On the negative side I am offended by sarcasm and sledgehammer responses of posters. [edit]

There are lazy questions. It is frustrating to see a question posted and there is a recent active thread covering the topic.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

As I said, Ace will be minding his post content by seeing that it stays within his level of experience. I'm done with all the hoopla around what Ace posts. New day here. He'll mind his posts so others don't have to.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Barry you have a good forum going here. I have been to others, not near the caliber as you have going here


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## philip.devos (Aug 10, 2013)

1. Information given by folks south of me providing information regarding weather vs. their colony activity.

2. Viewpoints different from mine

3 Practices discussed & shared by better beeks than me.

4. Photos, movies, many for my entertainment.

5. Other stuff that doesn't come to mind now.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

JB - forgive me, I meant to say that I omitted DETAILS. My data collection involves RFID tags. The uncapper is mostly pneumatic. 


No offense taken.

I agree with your catch 22 concerning the veterans informing or not informing the neophytes. As long as we all stay calm, it will work out.

Crazy Roland


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Roland said:


> As long as we all stay calm, it will work out.


:lpf:


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

On Bee Source, it is all about the one on one connection with beekeepers all over the world. When I was in my most stressful beekeeping moment without a solution to my problems there are many professionals here willing to help me out. I did not read any beekeeping books back then but only rely on Bee Source to provide me with all the beekeeping information and knowledge. Because of this on going support I was able to increase my beekeeping knowledge and experiences when certain concepts and methods are applied to my local environment. And my bees are growing everyday too. Along the way I have also made some innovative inventions that are challenged by other beekeepers here. This simple, inexpensive OAV invention has the potential to put all the current gadgets on the market out of business should I release my ideas here. So you tell me where, if not on Bee Source can I find such a challenge to get my creative juice flowing? 
When others said it cannot be done in a certain way, this will be my challenge to make it works for me. I'll come back here to post my findings so that we all can be enlighten a bit. I found out that many of the long time ideas held are false now because we are in a changing time. Many of the beekeeping concepts here I will test them out to see whether or not they still hold. Is it true or just a myth according to my local conditions. Take the thinking of the bee's foraging area for example. I found out that my bees will forage within one foot of their hives and up to 25 feet away. The more forage plants I keep within shorter distance the more they are willing to work them. Knowing this will keep my bees 
within the yard that will help with the honey production too. Whoever said that bees do not work on the plants that are closer to their hives? I don't buy that idea anymore after many testing over the years.
Also, there are many other valuable beekeeping resources that are available over the years that I had bookmarked. Cannot get them anywhere else. Don't you think that Bee Source is a valuable site for us to keep on coming back? Besides, the entertainment that I got from Ace over the years and see how he grow as a beekeeper keeps me motivated to do better the next time. There are many more findings that are still out there that we don't know yet facing the many environmental changes for the years to come. In order to overcome many of them we need to be more innovative and creative on how we solve our bee issues. Bee Source has become a place for all to come to share their ideas and challenges head on.


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## Dave Warren (May 14, 2012)

StingerMcStung said:


> This site has been invaluable to someone who googled 'beekeeping' just for for gits & shiggles. I was probably in micro-hydro/tesla-coils/my-God-get-a-life topics and saw a link and then was captivated by the little animals (not ya'all, the bees.)
> 
> I've learned so much from noobs, hobbyists, side-liners, and commercial big boys.
> 
> ...


I couldn't have said it better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

No need to shout Dave.


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

> Do we want to help, or just be cannonized?


Some who are here get canonized. Others get cannonized. The difference seems to be akin to what Michael Palmer posts vs what Acebird posts. This is one of my small contributions to being "helpful".


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

jbeshearse said:


> All advice is not equal and all advice is not tried and true. You must base your acceptance on the givers experience and honesty.
> But also know and understand this is an open forum, while most here are honorable, nice, and are filled with goodwill for fellow beekeepers; there are those that are decidedly none of those.


Very true. Once you've been steeped in Beesource long enough you start to filter out the fluff. I don't think there is a better website for interactive beekeeping discussions. At least not one that I have stumbled upon.


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## larrypeterson (Aug 22, 2015)

If I may,

There are sub-subjects that are not in Michael Bush's web site. I am working on a system where I use 1/2 frame comb inserted into the hive with clips to nurture grafts, notched and punched cells. I want to transfer them to nuc's to start up new colonies. This year I plan to use 1,2, or 3 cells on the 1/2 frame. I am trying to eliminate the starter and finisher steps to further simplify my efforts. Even though I am a dedicated disciple of Michael Bush, he nor anyone else that I can find has published information specific to what I am trying to accomplish. As an "old fat man" that can't be on his feet too long, I am trying to prolong the number of years that I can go out to my bees, sit on my dumpy stool, and "putter" doing what I want to do. This forum is the best thing I have found to glean those little "gems of knowledge" that make my life so much happier.

Another fine feature of this forum is the systematic sifting of fact, mythology, and fiction. Last year I was able to use cells to make nucs. The queen did not kill the cells nor did the workers eat through the sides of the Q cells. I do not know if that will hold true every time or if that was just a one time incident. "All the natives in South America walk in a straight line. At least the one I saw did." This forum goes beyond the "standardised" and deals with the more subtle issues. The new comers have a way of "thrashing out" the "what if" stuff that appeals to me.

I think I had better stop now before I kindle someones anger.

Best wishes LP


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

I have relied on beesource exclusively for learning the art of beekeeping. I haven't ever even cracked a book on the subject. Having used major domo list servers, use groups, and bulletin boards from the early days of the net to learn other hobbies such as home brewing, reef aquarium keeping, pyrotechnics, BBQ, mycology, and others, I learned long ago how to sift through the BS and get the real info. 

Also despite the arguments that appear on beesource from time to time, I actually find this site one of the most civil that I have ever participated in.


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## gnor (Jun 3, 2015)

What Michael Bush does works for him, and that's great. It may not work for everybody. It's also been scientifically proven that some of the stuff he does isn't really effective. I'm not going to get into that discussion; my point is that every beekeeper has different stuff to deal with, and has to eventually figure out a system that's going to work for their capability, location, climate, and so on. I therefore disagree that 95% of what you need to know is on MB's site. For instance, MB has spent years developing a treatment free system that works for him, but a new beek that jumps into that right in the middle is likely in for trouble. I have seen that happen on this forum. A beekeeper starting out should expose his/herself to the widest possible range of knowledge, then plan a strategy that they can start out with that's going to work for them, and help them meet their goals.
I started out by reading _Beekeeping for Dummies_, then a bunch of other books. YouTube has some great resources. _A Year in the Apiary_, with Dr. Keith Delaplane is a good, middle of the road approach to the subject. There are great talks by Michael Palmer and others. There is also some stuff that is pretty borderline, so you have to weigh it in relation to what you want to accomplish. 
I would also like to know who made you a moderator of this forum. This isn't some institution where some grizzled old veterans sit at the head of the class, dispensing advice to us unworthy noobs. It's a public forum, where we all have the right to air our opinions. If we are off the mark, then someone will surely say something, and we can discuss it. And, BTW, I have seen some pretty off the wall stuff from the grizzled vets on here as well. I pay the same membership dues as everybody else that belongs here, and if I want to say something, I will say it. You can either ignore it, or say something; your choice, but do not tell me how to behave.


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## gnor (Jun 3, 2015)

> For the new people, it is all new and exciting and they are full of new ideas. So when a veteran discounts the idea because they know its already been tried and is in use or failed and discarded, they come across as dream crushers and "old futzes".


I see where you are coming from, but I want to say that just because some "veteran" pooh poohs your idea doesn't mean it's wrong or isn't going to work. That often means that it hasn't worked for him. As a noob, and without on the ground experience, it's often difficult to separate reliable information from the bally hoo, but it pays to think critically. That means you not only pay attention to what is being said, but to who is saying it. I have developed a "trustworthiness hierarchy" for information, because with all the info out there these days, it becomes difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff. Not only is some of it wrong, it can be dangerous.
Here it is:

Published and peer reviewed scientific papers
University extension departments, their publications, and websites
Survey data collected and processed by qualified people.
Books (but check the qualifications of the author)
YouTube (check information against other reliable sources)
Beekeepers/beekeeping forums (what works for one is interesting - may not work for me. Check with 2 or more reliable sources)
This list isn't complete, but it has allowed me to gather a reliable knowledge base strong enough to devise a strategy and goals to guide my beekeeping career. The other thing is, I have to be open minded and flexible. New information is appearing all the time, and I need to be willing to amend my approach and goals in relation to my experience and knowledge at the time.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

gnor, at your bee conventions, do you sit at a table of seasoned vets, if you do I bet your conversations are mearly polite chit chat. 

Here you are sitting at that table and you are getting the whole conversation. 

I find it interesting when Beekeepers long for particular Beekeepers input but hate the feedback. Gnor, off the wall comments usually gets off the wall feedback. Know your audience and if your interested in particular opinions respect the conversation.


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## Andrew Dewey (Aug 23, 2005)

This is right on:



gnor said:


> I see where you are coming from, but I want to say that just because some "veteran" pooh poohs your idea doesn't mean it's wrong or isn't going to work. That often means that it hasn't worked for him. As a noob, and without on the ground experience, it's often difficult to separate reliable information from the bally hoo, but it pays to think critically. That means you not only pay attention to what is being said, but to who is saying it. I have developed a "trustworthiness hierarchy" for information, because with all the info out there these days, it becomes difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff. Not only is some of it wrong, it can be dangerous.
> Here it is:
> 
> Published and peer reviewed scientific papers
> ...


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## GeorgeManning (Nov 3, 2015)

You have covered it all. I found your style and content affirming your experience and also your open-mindedness and willing ear to learn from others.

Regards,

G. Manning
65 years in bee keeping


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## gnor (Jun 3, 2015)

Ian said:


> gnor, at your bee conventions, do you sit at a table of seasoned vets, if you do I bet your conversations are mearly polite chit chat.
> 
> Here you are sitting at that table and you are getting the whole conversation.
> 
> I find it interesting when Beekeepers long for particular Beekeepers input but hate the feedback. Gnor, off the wall comments usually gets off the wall feedback. Know your audience and if your interested in particular opinions respect the conversation.


So, Ian – at your bee conventions, are you one of those grizzled vets that look down their noses at noobs because they aren't doing it the way you always have? That makes as much sense as what you just said to me. I've met a couple of those types, too. This is a free forum, of course, and in future, you are entirely free to ignore my posts if you choose.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

gnor said:


> I would also like to know who made you a moderator of this forum...... I pay the same membership dues as everybody else that belongs here, and if I want to say something, I will say it. You can either ignore it, or say something; your choice, but do not tell me how to behave.


What is this post in reply to?
I re read the thread and can't figure out who/what you are directing your post to.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

clyderoad said:


> What is this post in reply to?
> I re read the thread and can't figure out who/what you are directing your post to.


It had me scratching my head as well. Its worth noting that the bulk of this thread is over 6 months old.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Checked back and the most recent moderator active therefore the one most likely to be the target was Barry.

So to answer the question who appointed him, Barry appointed himself.


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## Colobee (May 15, 2014)

"Beesource - What's it good for?"

Gathering & sharing information, and... aggravation.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

I'm pretty sure gnor was replying to the first post.



> Nothing rankles a veteran more than a novice brimming with unbounded and sometimes misguided enthusiasm, questioning the vets every action.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

gnor said:


> So, Ian – at your bee conventions, are you one of those grizzled vets that look down their noses at noobs because they aren't doing it the way you always have? That makes as much sense as what you just said to me. I've met a couple of those types, too. This is a free forum, of course, and in future, you are entirely free to ignore my posts if you choose.


You arnt around here much , nor have you ever sat at my table , 

Like I said, long for particular Beekeepers input but hates the feedback,...


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Short story:

At the Dadant's 150th party, I sat randomly at a table with others. After a few presentations, we began to banter. The others where all less than 3 year beekeepers, and looked at me like I was crazy, especially when I told them to check first day larvae for "shine". The next speaker was Randy Oliver, who kindly repeated most of my suggestions. 

Forgive the grizzled veterans, we get tired of repeating ourselves to unbelieving neophytes. Maybe if we charged speaking fees there would be more acceptance.

Roland Diehnelt, 5th gen commercial beekeeper
Linden Apiary, est. 1852


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

This 15 year beekeeper loves to banter with that 5th generation grizzled veteran, not always accepting, always listening and respecting the conversation. 
5 generations inherit a perspective


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Ha Ha yes that sort of thing rings a bell. But it has to be said there is good and not so good on all sides of the fence. I'm a treater myself but sometimes I cringe at what other treating beekeepers say, and sometimes I cringe reading stuff I've said in the past too!

However I do recall years ago being called quite a few derogatory terms for some of my beliefs and practises, which are now accepted and treated as common knowledge.

A couple spring to mind. On a bunch of threads TBH keepers were asking why their hives had died. To me, the symptoms resembled mites and I said so, and was then attacked and called names because TBH's do NOT get mites. Took a few years before most TBH keepers accepted that in fact they can.

The other was people saying their bees had deformed wings, what could they do. This was in quite a few threads and I said that DWV is associated with, and a sign of varroa mites. The complainants were invariably newish TF beekeepers who told me their hives did not have mites and the DWV was nothing to do with it. In one of these threads I decided to press the point and it got real ugly. I was called in various threads an old fart, ignorant, and unable to accept new ideas, among other things, much of this had to be deleted. I was pretty concerned about the needless pain and loss my abusers were putting themselves through because of their OWN narrow mindedness.
Now, it is understood and accepted by pretty much all that DWV is associated with mites.

So occasionally the grizzled old farts can be correct. I also believe they can learn well I can anyway, Acebird once corrected me on something and he was correct. Fusion Power also.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Roland said:


> Short story:
> 
> At the Dadant's 150th party, I sat randomly at a table with others. After a few presentations, we began to banter. The others where all less than 3 year beekeepers, and looked at me like I was crazy, especially when I told them to check first day larvae for "shine". The next speaker was Randy Oliver, who kindly repeated most of my suggestions.
> 
> ...


Just start introducing yourself as Dr. Roland. And insist on your name tag reading Dr. Roland.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Other thing I was involved in on Beesource years ago when human nature showed it's ugly side, was when I attempted small cell treatment free beekeeping. 95% of people were extremely supportive. But there were some treating beekeepers who rather than see this as a quest for knowledge, saw me as a traitor to the cause, a defector. And likewise there were a small number of treatment free beekeepers who were incredulous at what I was doing and did not believe my attempt was genuine, accusing me of deliberately trying to fail, etc..

I did eventually fail and these same people still think the whole thing was a setup. Rather a lot of my time, money, and work, to deliberately make something fail just so I could say it on the net. 

Oh well, joys of the internet!


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

This has been an interesting "resurrected" thread. Missed it the first time around in May, I know where I was. 

The discussion has me wondering something that maybe you old "grizzled beekeepers" have an answer to. This is in relation to the "new generation" of beekeepers who perceive the veteran beekeepers as old fashioned and set in their old ways, and are who looking for "new" ways of doing things. 

Are these new beekeepers mostly comprised of a "younger" age group, or are they simply "new beekeepers" spanning all age groups? Just curious if it might be a generational thing or a newbie phenomenon.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

It's more about what book they read rather than age or sex.

I agree with much of what Gnor said, but disagree about books. Some of them are a waste of time, some have an agenda. For someone wanting to spend the time to sort the info, an open forum like this is much better than a lot of books because the right answer or answers will be in there somewhere.

With some newby posts once they start disagreeing about something I can pretty much tell what book they read, which once understood, can make it easier to present them good info in the right non threatening way, in a form they might accept.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

sqkcrk said:


> Just start introducing yourself as Dr. Roland. And insist on your name tag reading Dr. Roland.


Is that what 5 generations gets you? 
...hey Doc!


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

Roland said:


> especially when I told them to check first day larvae for "shine".


This statement made ​​me think what's important I should know. Roland can you give some more details? Thanks!



> Maybe if we charged speaking fees there would be more acceptance.


In my country it is the same. It's human nature or/and nurture.

In this forum I have learned a lot. I highlight the OTS technique I used this year with great success. I had also highlight awareness of the importance of counting the mites, even doing the treatments according to a schedule that is not absolutely rigid.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Mike Gillmore said:


> Are these new beekeepers mostly comprised of a "younger" age group, or are they simply "new beekeepers" spanning all age groups? Just curious if it might be a generational thing or a newbie phenomenon.


According to Shane Gabauer's talk yesterday at the ESHPA Fall Mtng, it looks like a lot of the growth or growth potential in beekeeping and bee club membership is in the "Baby Boomers" as they approach retirement or retire. Shane Gabauer of Brushy Mountain Bee Farm.

But we also had a group of students from SUNY Adirondack's Apiary Club at the meeting. So, maybe it's everybody.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Ian said:


> Is that what 5 generations gets you?
> ...hey Doc!


Doc Roland from now on.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Mike Gillmore said:


> This has been an interesting "resurrected" thread. Missed it the first time around in May, I know where I was.
> 
> The discussion has me wondering something that maybe you old "grizzled beekeepers" have an answer to. This is in relation to the "new generation" of beekeepers who perceive the veteran beekeepers as old fashioned and set in their old ways, and are who looking for "new" ways of doing things.
> 
> Are these new beekeepers mostly comprised of a "younger" age group, or are they simply "new beekeepers" spanning all age groups? Just curious if it might be a generational thing or a newbie phenomenon.


I suppose I qualify as "old and grizzled" (wonder what grizzled means). 
I really don't think it's a generational thing, seems like there are lots of retired folks who have discovered the joys of beekeeping later in life that seem just as likely to want to explore new avenues of beekeeping. 
I do think there is a misconception that because you have been doing this for decades that you have resisted change. I think quite the opposite is true. Those who are most successful today are those who have embraced change in their management practices. I would have been out of business a long time ago if I continued to operate bees in the same way my father did decades ago. 
Certain beekeeping fundamentals, however, remain constant. Monitoring for disease, keeping bees well fed, timely supering, and strict seasonal nucing schedules. Just to name a few of the most important. Are things all successful beekeepers do well.


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

jim lyon said:


> I do think there is a misconception that because you have been doing this for decades that you have resisted change. I think quite the opposite is true. Those who are most successful today are those who have embraced change in their management practices. I would have been out of business a long time ago if I continued to operate bees in the same way my father did decades ago.


Jim I learn faster if I made a few questions. So here goes: what measures you use today different from your father wore that it in your understanding are crucial to your success? If you give two or three surely already will be very valuable to me.

Roland "shine" first day larvae are due to abundant royal jelly?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Eduardo Gomes said:


> Roland "shine" first day larvae are due to abundant royal jelly?


I don't want to answer for Doc, I'm sure he will return to this thread.

You want to see your larvae "swimming". If not they are in nutritional stress and need attention asap


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Eduardo Gomes said:


> Jim I learn faster if I made a few questions. So here goes: what measures you use today different from your father wore that it in your understanding are crucial to your success? If you give two or three surely already will be very valuable to me.
> 
> Roland "shine" first day larvae are due to abundant royal jelly?


At the risk of turning this thread to turn into a "what my father did wrong" let me first point out that times were much different in the 1940's and 50's when he and my uncle were building the business. In those years migratory beekeeping with poorer roads and no mechanized loading was much more difficult and farming practices were much, much different. The most important thing I learned from my father is that beekeeping is hard, repetitive work, and that essentially hasn't changed its just channeled more efficiently. So with that in mind here are the primary changes we've implemented in the past 20 to 30 years

1. We no longer purchase packages or queens, we raise our own and requeen yearly. 
2. We no longer winter our bees on the prairies of South Dakota where winters are harsh and spring buildup is unreliable. 
3. We still make up 3 comb nucs but do so in Texas in late March instead of South Dakota in late April. 
4. We have the distinct advantage of new labor saving extracting equipment that wasn't available decades ago. 
5. Forklifts and pallets have changed everything.


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

Thank you Jim for your reply. Obviously your father was an excellent beekeeper who taught you many fundamental things in beekeeping. My father did the same with me. As you said the fundamentals remain and the major changes are mostly context. And we're here to answer them in the best way.

Ian you have lifted the veil. But wait that Roland , Doc . can say anything else.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Eduardo Gomes said:


> Ian you have lifted the veil. But wait that Roland , Doc . can say anything else.


Waiting to see what shows up on Roland's signature now!


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

His last signature was bestowed on him by a moderator of the time.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

I miss when he retired his last moniker. Must have been about the same time the other mod left for greener pastures.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Oldtimer said:


> His last signature was bestowed on him by a moderator of the time.


Which was what?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Crazy Roland, I believe. Or just, Crazy.


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

> Oldtimer - So occasionally the grizzled old farts can be correct. I also believe they can learn well I can anyway, Acebird once corrected me on something and he was correct. Fusion Power also.


One thing you taught me is that flexibility is important. I'm talking about being mentally flexible, not how far one can bend an elbow. You were flexible enough to give treatment free a good trial and adaptive enough to realize it was not working in your conditions. I would still say that if you had started with mite tolerant genetics the outcome would have been different.



> Mike Gillmore - The discussion has me wondering something that maybe you old "grizzled beekeepers" have an answer to. This is in relation to the "new generation" of beekeepers who perceive the veteran beekeepers as old fashioned and set in their old ways, and are who looking for "new" ways of doing things.


Taking a new look at old and established practices is what new beekeepers are best at doing. Old and established beekeepers are good at reminding newbees that sometimes t-shirts are important. As in "been there, done that, got the t-shirt". In the "also interesting" category, several years ago, Bellsouth yellow pages published an advertisement for a custom screen print t-shirt business. But they left the "r" out of t-shirt. You can guess the business was unhappy.



> Jim Lyon - (wonder what grizzled means)


Grizzle means an alternating pattern of light and dark colors. It is a color pattern, usually used in reference to hair where alternating brown and gray gives a "frosted" appearance. It is usually a sign of age. Sadly, when you are referred to as a "grizzled" veteran, it means you are a member of the over the hill gang.

The best advice I can offer any beekeeper on Beesource is that beekeeping is a journey, not a destination.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

sqkcrk said:


> Crazy Roland, I believe. Or just, Crazy.


Lol, right I know that one!
I like Doc Roland better


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

That's Crazy, Ian.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

Barry said:


> Waiting to see what shows up on Roland's signature now!


....a link to his thesis.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

Fusion_power said:


> One thing you taught me [oldtimer] is that flexibility is important.


yep.



Fusion_power said:


> The best advice I can offer any beekeeper on Beesource is that beekeeping is a journey, not a destination.


double yep. good post dar.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Fusion_power said:


> I would still say that if you had started with mite tolerant genetics the outcome would have been different.


Oh I think you are totally correct there, pretty sure that was the problem. Since those times others have tried with the same result, plus we've had 2 beekeepers move here from overseas who were successful TF beekeepers where they came from, but have failed here. We are lacking in the genetics department.



Ian said:


> Which was what?


Roland is one of the most interesting guys on Beesource. At one time, a rather less than always friendly ex moderator called him crazy. Roland took this, made it his own, and wore it like a badge of honor, to the point that the name caller was actually pleading with him to remove it from his tag line cos it was making the name caller look bad. Never seen name calling dealt with so effectively!


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Crazy, eh?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Oldtimer said:


> Roland is one of the most interesting guys on Beesource. At one time, a rather less than always friendly ex moderator called him crazy. Roland took this, made it his own, and wore it like a badge of honor, to the point that the name caller was actually pleading with him to remove it from his tag line cos it was making the name caller look bad. Never seen name calling dealt with so effectively!



I just thought he referred to himself as Crazy, well... much for the same reason I like following his posts, they have that edge that makes you think... "What the heck does that mean..." which in the end actually made sense, 

Just teasing, Cheers Doc!


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

First order of business, Eduardo asked?

Roland "shine" first day larvae are due to abundant royal jelly? 

True that, as others before me have correctly stated.

NOWWWWWW for that Phd problem.

First of all, Dr. Diehnelt(DDS) is my sister, not me. And my Ex-wife, is now Dr. Jones(psych).
I do not wish to be any part of that group. 

My son says Phd stands for "Pound head down"(and loose common sense). 

It is a rare to find an educated person that is still practical. There are many a horror stories of Phd's going commercial and failing miserably.

My buddy "Mo-god", a machinist and beekeeper, believes there are three human traits, Intelligence, knowledge, and common sense. He believes it is easy to obtain two, but three is often mutually exclusive. The clash between the "old grizzled veterans", with common sense and learned knowledge(it does not take high intelligence), often clash with the newer high intelligent with book knowledge, but lacking the common sense, beekeeper.

Crazy as always, Roland

P.S. SQKCRK, don't EVER call me "Doc" again, he he he


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Roland said:


> My buddy "Mo-god", a machinist and beekeeper, believes there are three human traits, Intelligence, knowledge, and common sense. He believes it is easy to obtain two, but three is often mutually exclusive. The clash between the "old grizzled veterans", with common sense and learned knowledge(it does not take high intelligence), often clash with the newer high intelligent with book knowledge, but lacking the common sense, beekeeper.
> 
> Crazy as always, Roland


I like it. My father liked a quote he once heard from a University president lecturing a group of professors. 
"Be kind to your A students because they will become our future professors but be especially kind to your C students because they may well be our future benefactors".


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Roland said:


> P.S. SQKCRK, don't EVER call me "Doc" again, he he he


Where's the cowering in fear icon?

Okay, you OCB*. 

*Old Crazy B-word(of your choice) with <3

we don't have a LOVE icon?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>wonder what grizzled means

It means white hairs mixed in...

>>It is a rare to find an educated person that is still practical. 
>"Be kind to your A students because they will become our future professors but be especially kind to your C students because they may well be our future benefactors"


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## thehackleguy (Jul 29, 2014)

Robbin said:


> and my ignore list is fairly short.


One can have an ignore list!! :applause:


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Roland said:


> My son says Phd stands for "Pound head down"(and loose common sense).


More likely... You know, coming after BS...Bull ****, MS...More ****, Phd...Piled high and Deeper.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Don't worry SQKCRK, you are safe, I never hurt anyone by accident....

A Love Icon? I would be happier with a horse drawn wagon icon instead of the bus, just for us old grizzled types.

Crazy Roland


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Oh,.. you like the attention


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

It's good for running lentil sprouting plans by fellow beekeepers. Also good for making/posting sleeveless and somewhat bizarre honey worship videos. 

Is there a "what I learned on beesource today" thread?


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

I see it as a "Cheers" for beekeepers.

"Making your way in the world today takes everything you've got.
Taking a break from all your worries, sure would help a lot.... 
​You wanna go where everybody knows your name."
​​


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## GeorgeManning (Nov 3, 2015)

To Jim Lyon---

I am new to Bee Source. I liked Gnor's article --"What's it good for" It may be 6 months old but I just read it and made comment. I am certain that there are interesting comments that I would like to affirm when I see their merit.

I will look for your comments too in the future.

As a bee keeper all of my life, I do keep my ears open for what appears useful to me. I never feel that I have learned it all. It seems that I can go back to my file of experiences and occasionally adjust these memories to be more useful as I continue to pursue bee keeping.

Regards,

George Manning


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Hey, George there is a George Manning in Utica NY but he doesn't keep bees as far as I know. The name drew me to your post.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

Acebird said:


> Hey, George there is a George Manning in Utica NY but he doesn't keep bees as far as I know. The name drew me to your post.


Hey George, there is a Payton Manning in Denver, but he doesn't keep bees as far as I know. The name drew me to your post.

Da Fuq? :scratch::scratch:


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

Maybe he didn't like my "Cheers" post.


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

shinbone said:


> ...
> I would say 99.99% of everything "new" to beekeeping has actually already been tried and disproven. There is always room for improvement and invention, but people have been keeping bees for 1000's of years. There is not much that has not been examined in minute-detail multiple times by really smart and creative people...


Agree, especially considering that MEAD is made from honey, bees are rather well-researched. Yet much is still being learned and reported on www.scientificbeekeeping.com , check out the articles (from 2009) on Research Updates - check the websites listed in the references at the end of the article. Just a taste, not even the tip of the iceberg! It's gotten hard to keep up with who's researching what around the globe.

http://www.projectapism.org

http://www.honeybeepreservation.org

http://www.prohoneyandhealth.com

http://www.seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/394053_honey30.asp


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## Cloverdale (Mar 26, 2012)

Randy has a PowerPoint on Oxalic acid vapor on his website too. He has much new information
too.


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