# Strong early honey in Upstate New York



## taxonomy (Apr 15, 2010)

In Western MA our harvest done last week was fine but small. We got locust rained out. After Maple there wasn't much flying time here. 

Bees are drawing wax out now and appear to be on flow.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

chefbeek said:


> Anyone have any experience with honey this early in the season? Would dandelion honey be contributing to the funky flavor?
> 
> TIA


Yes, and there was a good dandelion flow this year. Looks like we made about 2 mediums from the spring flow.

Nectar started shaking out again yesterday.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

what a difference a few miles can make, no locust bloom here due to hard late frosts, also took out or injured most everything else. not sure what the nasty tasting honey is but going on what people have told me I would guess you are right about the dandelion's being the problem. I have two yards out of ten making honey. I do see that some of the bass wood will be flowering, but doesn't look like it survived the frosts all that well either.


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## Keth Comollo (Nov 4, 2011)

Our locusts are usually around July 1. I thought they may bloom way early this warm year but they are holding out so far. Probably by the end of this sunny week.


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

ya 40 miles south of syracuse zero locust bloom this year. first time in my memory. strange year


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## taxonomy (Apr 15, 2010)

Keth Comollo said:


> Our locusts are usually around July 1. I thought they may bloom way early this warm year but they are holding out so far. Probably by the end of this sunny week.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Nectar_Sources_for_Honey_Bees

The chart usually holds pretty true for us. It's good enough that I printed it and have it on a bulletin board for easy access. Black Locust is a late May thing and we missed it. Rain and cold after the heat. Funny, you're pretty darn close to us to have a month between our bloom times.


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## [email protected] (May 12, 2010)

Would you guys with the locust flow please stop rubbing it in! Ours did not even bloom this year.


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## chefbeek (Sep 7, 2007)

Thanks guys. It mellowed out overnight in a big way, but still has a bite. Is what it is...grateful we got some either way.

Funny about the locust bloom...this yard always grabs intense tree flows. My yards east of Syracuse didn't get a lick. I'm watching the basswood closely....fingers crossed.


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## Scott_Terry (May 16, 2012)

Hey guys, I'm a first year beekeeper up in Hammond just a few miles from the St Lawrence river. I've got 3 hives going this year. The first was a package of Buckfasts that I put in the end of April, the next a swarm that I caught in May at a farm about 7 miles from our farm and the last was a nuc colony I got here local that is in a 10 frame deep. The first hive has filled both deep brood boxes and I just added a deep on top yesterday. The other 2 have filled the first box and I've added the 2nd deep for brood this week. My question is this, can they be wintered with just the 2 brood boxes or should I leave the 3rd deep on for winter if they happen to fill it? I'm a little confused about how much stores they need to winter.


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## Dan. NY (Apr 15, 2011)

Hard late frosts indeed.. Check out this image. Note the black locusts in the background. This wiped out bunch of my stuff that had bloomed early:
View attachment 2218


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

http://dendro.cnre.vt.edu/dendrology/syllabus/factsheet.cfm?ID=40

Are these really black locusts? Map says they are in the south. We do have honey locusts. Is that what you are talking about. That is a much later bloom.


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## taxonomy (Apr 15, 2010)

Acebird said:


> http://dendro.cnre.vt.edu/dendrology/syllabus/factsheet.cfm?ID=40
> 
> Are these really black locusts?


Those are black locust. Black locust is common around here in Western MA. Very common in Northampton. This it is a large import flow we skipped doe to rain and low temps. I didnt see much of a bloom. 

From what I know honey locust has thorns.


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

I pulled some honey off the hives already this year and extracted it, and it definitely has a different smell and taste than what I am used to getting, I think there is alot of maple and dandelion in it as we had great weather during that bloom time and I had the first super on. It doesn't taste that bad, its a little stronger flavor though, probably doesn't have a drop of clover in it to mellow it out. I'm wondering what my regular customers are going to think of it though. John


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## taxonomy (Apr 15, 2010)

We had amazing flying time during maple too, but I would expect that would have all been used making bees.


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

taxonomy, I had my first super on most of my hives when the maples bloomed, and we had about one and a half weeks of 70's and 80's, I remember looking in the supers to see how they were doing and about a third of the boxes were filled with nectar, so I think that I have maple honey in there, still can't believe I got this much honey this early in the year. John


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

taxonomy said:


> Those are black locust. Black locust is common around here in Western MA. Very common in Northampton. This it is a large import flow we skipped doe to rain and low temps. I didnt see much of a bloom.
> 
> From what I know honey locust has thorns.


I don't know what that thorny thing is, but it isn't anything like any Black Locust or Honey Locust I have ever seen. From wikipedia, eh? Can't be wrong.


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## NasalSponge (Jul 22, 2008)

That is honey locust, that is what they look like down here anyway....not a good nectar tree. Black locust has gnarly bark and very hard wood, very fickle flow, a little rain and they can be done. Both sport thorns.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

So, I guess our Eastern varieties are all black locust? Could be.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Our honey locust have thorns on the branches not on the trunk.


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## Keth Comollo (Nov 4, 2011)

I just checked our locusts and not a single bloom. Perhaps I was thrown off and now remember it is an early June bloom instead of July. No locust this year is a real bummer because our whole road is lined by them and provide an amazing amount of forage for area bees. Pity.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

There are such things as microclimates. The trees in my backyard are not in bloom, but a cpl of weeks ago I saw a locust tree in full bloom not 5 miles away from here. I believe the early warm temps this Spring probably advanced the annual life cycle of the trees and then the freezing cold temps caught the trees in a vulnerable state. Most of them anyway. A few came thru alright.

A friend in Wolcott,NY said that this is the first year in his more than 50 years of observation in which he noticed the locust not blooming at all.


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## frederick (Feb 10, 2012)

i live in wolcott and no blooms on the locust at all. may i ask who your freind is in wolcott.


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## Dan. NY (Apr 15, 2011)

The black locusts in the image I posted did not bloom this year. Consensus is this is the first time in at least roughly 50 years they did not bloom. By the way that picture was taken on April 23rd this year..


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## taxonomy (Apr 15, 2010)

I live in an area with many locusts here in Western MA. I figured I must've missed the bloom though I watch blooms pretty closely. Maybe they didn't after all.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

the sumac opened here the last couple of days, and three yards have basswood that started opening yesterday afternoon, problem is only about 10% of the trees have the clusters on them. the basswood is about 10 days early.


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## Dan. NY (Apr 15, 2011)

Thanks for the info. I have quite a bit of sumac and it should open about now since yours did also.


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## jhirsche (Jun 15, 2009)

I have three small yards spread around central NY... one in Syracuse, one in Central Square area, and one in Pulaski. 

In Syracuse, yellow sweet clover is just about over, white sweet clover is on, sumac has been blooming for over a week, and basswood is opening now. Plenty of blooming catalpa's around too. Seems to be a decent flow going in the last week, as the super is heavy with nectar in most cells, and lots of new white wax on the combs now. 

In Central Square, my girls have exploded within the last 10 days on something big... maybe white dutch clover, red clover or white sweet clover, as they have each filled a shallow with 9 frames during that period (one even drew and partially filled a new medium too!) Very floraly aroma... almost water white nectar. they made this same honey four years ago when we moved in... never got another drop in the last two year til now. Neighbors large-leaf American basswood trees (+80' tall!) are loaded with blooms, and promise to open within the week (hope more warm weather comes to make a heavy flow.) Amazing to also see the progress the swarm nucs are making on this flow... drawing out new comb like crazy... and the queens in a laying frenzy.

In Pulaski, its been off to the races for about 2 weeks now... filled and nearly capped a shallow in 7 days since last check. Will have to get pics of that one tomorrow night when I check them... added a deep super with drawn honey foundation to them... hoping they've packed it already! Plenty of sumac, catalpa, and basswood to go up there... first year in this location... and it looks to be my best yet! All colonies there at swarm strength... with no more swarm cells showing. Have offset the boxes, put an empty shallow on the bottom board, and using ventilated covers to give them the room they need to cluster below the brood nest at night.

And the original reason I decided to post... absolutely NO black locust bloom from Syracuse to Central Square this year... I think I saw one tree with a handful of blooms on it, about 3 weeks ago. Very disappointing, but they all look really well folliated - so next year, barring crap weather, it could be awesome!


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## Dan. NY (Apr 15, 2011)

!!!!! Jealous with a capital J. My girls have drawn out diddly squat in a month. Hopefully I have a strong flow like yours and will see some good new comb and honey. Catalpa?? First I heard mention of this. Not sure I have any or not. Thanks for the info. I will be looking.


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## jhirsche (Jun 15, 2009)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_catalpa


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## jhirsche (Jun 15, 2009)

didn't mean to shut down this thread... anyone else seeing decent production this spring/summer? Best I've seen them do yet in 5 years....


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## Keth Comollo (Nov 4, 2011)

Rain shut the girls down for a few days but basswood is blooming here as is sumac and they are dragging it in by the bucket load!


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## Kettle Ridge (Jan 27, 2012)

Outside of Rochester, no black locust bloom here either. Tasted some honey from another beek that was strong and bitter, was attributed to autumn olive. Our honey seems good with an exceptional color - light and greenish. Bees now hitting the milkweed with a vengeance.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

pulled my honey this weekend, last year I pulled 2700 lbs and left on many supers that were almost all capped, this year pulled 600lbs and the supers I left on are not even close to being capped and thats with 15 more hives? all the honey came from the two yards near my house. all the rest are in a valley that is not producing anything. Since the corn is showing water stress I don't see it getting any better unless it starts raining.


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## papar (Apr 10, 2007)

Hey Mike,

Is the basswood flow over in your area?


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## danmcm (May 23, 2012)

sqkcrk said:


> I don't know what that thorny thing is, but it isn't anything like any Black Locust or Honey Locust I have ever seen. From wikipedia, eh? Can't be wrong.


it's not that is honey locust lost many lawn mower tires to them think they should all be cut down and burned plant an apple or tilia in it's place.

Daniel
Maryville, Tn


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

papar said:


> Hey Mike,
> 
> Is the basswood flow over in your area?


not enough trees flowered to get any, a couple of supers smelled minty. The only flow I saw was autumn olive and honey suckle. the honey looks good, taste different, and leaves a nasty after taste. you may be ok in the valley, a few miles from my house in the valley they were in full bloom and at the correct time?


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## DC Bees (Sep 24, 2009)

I'm in central Pa area and the basswoods are done, also the locust did not bloom in my area.Honey this year has a different flavor and it's a little darker.Honey production is down by half,i guess i should not complain it could be worse.


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## Dan. NY (Apr 15, 2011)

Just did an inspection yesterday. In two weeks, they filled out new comb and filled full of honey in about 6 frames (both sides). In other frames, they filled and capped corners of brood frames. I have little in the way of new brood or new comb for brood. (Honeybound??) They been packing honey in all new comb. It looks to me flow is/was on. Milkweed ended a few days ago for me. I see them working white sweet clover. I got the stuff everywhere and they are on it. It looks to be coming to an end though. Lack of rain seems to be a bad thing these days.

Anyone else seeing this white sweet clover around still? What is being worked around you all? Whats next??


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## Nantom670 (Jul 29, 2011)

Here is a picture of what the bark of our black locust look like around here. I have never seen a black locust around here that does not have this type bark. My photobucket picture:http://s1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb369/nantom670/?action=view&current=IMG_0750.jpg


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

Dan. NY said:


> What is being worked around you all? Whats next??


if we don't get some moisture, pulling the honey supers and feeding. helped a friend go through hives yesterday, went through over a hundred and pulled out 15 med frames of caped honey.


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## jhirsche (Jun 15, 2009)

Pulled supers and individual frames from 5 hives last Friday. Three hives were overwintered... and deep frames from spring swarms that were severely backfilling the upper deep frames. Had four shallows full and capped, and two deeps full and capped. Ended up with four distinct varieties of honey from 3 yard locations these five hives are among. One is minty/fruity sweet and light yellow; one is strong floral and light yellow (smells like dogbane flowers), one is light yellow and more mild... like clover, catawba and basswood, and the rest is all deep amber, very thick, and verrry cinnamon-ey! Delicious, classic honey flavor, but so thick it wouldn't spin out of the frames even in the 90F heat on Friday night! Time to get the bottling operation ready... is abut 15 gallons total. Best year yet for me, but first year with overwintered hives and better outyard locations. honey pictures to follow later...


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## Kettle Ridge (Jan 27, 2012)

Two overwintered colonies have given me approx. 70lbs but one has swarmed so many times it is a shell of its former self (my bad). Four purchased nucs and one split seem to be doing okay but no extra honey yet. We have clover, milkweed, and lots of motherwort on the property.

Placed one purchased nuc a quarter-mile down the road with a neighbor, and took off 35 lbs from it yesterday. It is facing a nice swamp full of Joe Pye Weed about to bloom, so I am hoping it will continue to produce well.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Dan. NY said:


> Anyone else seeing this white sweet clover around still? What is being worked around you all? Whats next??


Sweet clover is about mid loom here in the Champlain valley. The bees are working White Dutch well, and the farmers are letting it bloom...as well as the alfalfa. Extension now says it's better to allow it to old. Praise Be.
Loosestrife is starting. Goldenrod and the Asters are right around the corner...saw a goldenrod in bloom on June 28. 

Good flow here this year. One of the best Sumac flows I've seen, and the Basswood was huge. I'm seeing a hundred pound average here so far, over the 30 apiaries. Can't wait to see and taste the comb honey from this crop.


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## Bleemus (Jul 10, 2012)

Interesting. Bees aren't touching the Dutch down here anymore. Sumac was grand but now gone to seed. Basswood just finished. 

Extracted one medium for gifts on a trip to Swans Island, Maine about a week ago and it was sweet and light. Marvelous stuff!


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Has anyone identified the source of the thick, dark(almost reddish) honey that came in after Locust and before Basswood? Never seen or tasted that before. What does Milkweed honey taste like?

Crazy Roland(not in Upstate NY)


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## chefbeek (Sep 7, 2007)

Just did a second pull last weekend and things went a lot better. Got 2 supers per over-wintered colony of basswood/milkweed/sumac off the June flow. Had to pull a few deep frames of basswood from some splits that plugged their upper deeps. Brand new shiny deep frames, solid white caps top to bottom. I think I may hang them on the wall instead of extracting them. Too pretty.

Where I am, I've got my fingers crossed for a strong knapweed flow. Love my invasives with long tap-roots!


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centaurea



> The abundant nectar produced by Centaurea flowers attracts many pollinators. This is another reason for the success of the highly invasive species, but as it holds true for the entire genus it is not decisive. Yet it can be exploited to the farmer's advantage in combination with biological control of these weeds: In particular the Yellow Starthistle (C. solstitialis) as well as Spotted Knapweed (C. maculosa) are major honey plants forbeekeepers. Monofloral honey from these plants is light and slightly tangy, and one of the finest honeys produced in the USA – due to its better availability, it is even fraudulently relabeled and sold as the scarce and expensive Sourwood honey of the Appalachian Mountains


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## Rob Hughes (Apr 23, 2012)

Hi all 

For comparison, up here in the central/lower Saint John river valley where I am, the basswood at lower elevations has been out a week or more (as are the city-planted small-leafed lindens), while on the hills it's just starting to bloom. Sweet white and yellow clover is full throttle, milkweed also full on. Alfalfa and trefoil is looking showy,while the sumac is going over. I think my bees got a lot from the sumac last week. A few goldenrods are coming out.

Sunny and hot for at least 5 more days by the look of it, good flying weather.

Rob


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## jhirsche (Jun 15, 2009)

Helped my Uncle harvest 1 medium and 3 shallows off his overwintered colony near Waterloo, NY yesterday. This colony has been just amazing for him... 180 lbs last year, and we did 120 lbs from it yesterday. Equally amazing is the fact that 2 of the 3 shallows, and the entire medium, were new foundation that was all drawn and capped. Guess I need to steal a frame of eggs from this hive to propogate those genetic lines... just amazing! Oh, and the honey looked like a mix of basswood, sumac, and clover. Mostly light and minty... with the deeper colored yellow-amber here and there.


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## Kettle Ridge (Jan 27, 2012)

jhirsche, if that colony decides to swarm please direct them 25 miles due west to my yard in Victor. Lord knows I have sent several swarms in your direction this year.

Joe


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