# What's wrong with this video



## KillaBeezs (May 9, 2015)

Found this on YouTube and thought I would bring it up for discussion. 

https://youtu.be/luszv798bYc

It is about AHB ...and given my screen name quite appropriate for me to bring it up. My questions are related to the accuracy of some if the "facts" given. Like stings build up and get worse over a lifetime? And that Arizona only has AHB now?

Several of the hives he was removing didn't seem very aggressive until he tore into them. And collecting bees in a plastic tote...seems like he would cook them before he could release?


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## Dan the bee guy (Jun 18, 2015)

Just got done watching the program he had 1 or 2 hives that seemed to be AHB the rest were normal bees. All he did was kill every hive. The guy is just a tool.


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## Dan P (Oct 29, 2014)

Yes its like that. Ive only found maybe three removals that were docile. Some meaner than others. I try to save mine if possible.


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## KillaBeezs (May 9, 2015)

Dan P said:


> Yes its like that. Ive only found maybe three removals that were docile. Some meaner than others. I try to save mine if possible.


I've never messed with AHB...so I can't tell if they were making it out worse than it is. Like the first hive he killed, didn't even try to smoke them before tearing into the pile. Could have been trying to upset them just for the show.


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## Dan P (Oct 29, 2014)

Thats a possibility. But they must have been a nuisance or he never would have been called to the locations. I usually start getting hit before I even start a job.


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## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

he is a "killer bee " exterminator. if he tells the owner they are average honey bees, and they should call a beekeeper he is out of work. Death and destruction sell much better, I have done September cut outs that were meaner than most of those hives, and they overwintered to be great bees.


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## DanielD (Jul 21, 2012)

Actually the video is all about tv drama and suspense. That usually doesn't work well with truth and reality.


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## jadebees (May 9, 2013)

I'm in Az, and there are lots of AHB. But, not all are unworkable. After all, they are all now hybrids. But that nasty bunch, under the deck, at the opening of the vid is not staged. That's how they are, when you get agressive ones. As gentle as you can be, they still defend that way. Some, ( 5%) are worse than that. I only sampled the vid, (50 + minutes!) so didnt see the whats wrong part. But, I catch bees, work the OK ones, requeen the others, use their comb and brood, and destroy the hopelessly viscious. If you work bees here, you'll learn to always suit up fully, and your smoker is your best friend. The bad ones, don't even care about smoke. 1 of 10 wild hives act like the featured ones. I always do cutouts with a pump sprayer full of soapy water. Cutouts, not a favored chore here. People wonder why I want money for them.
What's really wrong with the video, is that the guy is just a bee killer I doubt he's even a beek. He's a glorified exterminator on a TV show playing up some hype.


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

In South America they keep africanized honey bees for honey production, they have no choice and have just learned to manage. They have adapted their equipment. I have a smoker from Brazil that they use for africanized bees, they call it the Fumigator. The smoker body is about the size of a 5 gallon bucket and the bellows are huge and operated with two hands. 

I attached a pic of it, my other smoker fit inside it.


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## lemmje (Feb 23, 2015)

He said a few times that he could smell the venom. I work some pretty docile bees, last summer probably took a total of 30 stings, generally one or two at a time, mostly in the bare hands. I have never smelled the venom. I'm guessing he is smelling it because of the number of stingers being left in his gloves and suit? 

What does the venom smell like?


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## DPBsbees (Apr 14, 2011)

I've personally heard Dr. Dewey Caron say that AHB will shoot the venom at you if they can't sting you. He works them in his place in South America when he's not in Oregon. Never smelled it myself, but I know alarm pheromone well.


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## jadebees (May 9, 2013)

The venom is not what smells, it's the attack pheremone. Pure african bees use a 3rd pheremone. It has a distinct smell. In my experience, it is the one that comes with the major, kill everything attack. The lighter that smell is, hybrids, the less the violence of defence. European bees act just like Africanized under the influence of the pheromone. For example, if your hive has been usurped you will find that your nice Italian bees are now really really mean. From one week to the next, it happens fast.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Somebody that I read said the attack mode smells like bannana. I don't know but am not going to eat a bannana while working bees to see:no:.
Cheers
gww


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## dynemd (Aug 27, 2013)

Reed says: "the big difference between me and a exterminator is I don't use any poisons, I use soapy water to kill them" My take is he's an exterminator plain and simple.


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

gww said:


> Somebody that I read said the attack mode smells like bannana.
> Cheers


Sort of... the alarm pheromone which smells like bananas to us is Isopentyl acetate. The reason it smells like bananas to us is that it is also the chemical compound we use for artificial banana flavorings for pudding, laffy taffy etc. Natural bananas do not contain Isopentyl acetate..

But that is just one alarm pheromone and honey bees have about 40 compounds we have identified to date which are used in combination to communicate "alarm". Interestingly AHB uses a different combination of alarm pheromones than European honey bees and researchers have found that if you put trace amounts of AHB pheromone near a European bee hive they react just as aggressively... The aggression isn't a temperament trait, it is a communication issue.


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## larryh (Jul 28, 2014)

interesting!


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## KillaBeezs (May 9, 2015)

bluegrass said:


> European honey bees and researchers have found that if you put trace amounts of AHB pheromone near a European bee hive they react just as aggressively... The aggression isn't a temperament trait, it is a communication issue.


if true....then large smokers like the 5gal one mentioned should be fairly effective. Of course allowing the beek to breathe with that much smoke is another issue.


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

KillaBeezs said:


> if true....then large smokers like the 5gal one mentioned should be fairly effective. Of course allowing the beek to breathe with that much smoke is another issue.


There was a fad a few years ago of not smoking bees at all.... But I think the science is the future of beekeeping and we will stop using smoke in the future. Once science gets to a point where we understand the pheromone receptors I think instead of blocking communication with smoke we will block it with an agent that blocks the receptors for alarm pheromone. We will be able to work hives without protective equipment because phenomenal communication would be shut off.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

bluegrass said:


> There was a fad a few years ago of not smoking bees at all.... But I think the science is the future of beekeeping and we will stop using smoke in the future. Once science gets to a point where we understand the pheromone receptors I think instead of blocking communication with smoke we will block it with an agent that blocks the receptors for alarm pheromone. We will be able to work hives without protective equipment because phenomenal communication would be shut off.


Interesting, you're probably right. I wonder how long a colony would be 'out of whack' after something like that.


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## lemmje (Feb 23, 2015)

I read an article on livescience not long ago that talked about someone working on that very thing somewhere in Europe, i think. They were using different concentrated scents from flowers, if i remember correctly, to find a calming influence on the bees, rather than using smoke. Wish i would have kept the link.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

lemmje, how were they talking about applying it. To me if you can't somehow "inject" it into the hive before you even touch it, you've already lost a lot of the effectiveness. That's why I've always laughed at the idea of opening a colony and spraying water on them. You've already disrupted and then doused them with water... kind of defeats the purpose.


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## lemmje (Feb 23, 2015)

I'll have to search for it because i cannot remember really. Seems like it was almost an incense idea, burning something in front of the hive first, and maybe something a beekeeper could also put on their body or hands for while doing inspections.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

lemmje said:


> I'll have to search for it because i cannot remember really. Seems like it was almost an incense idea, burning something in front of the hive first, and maybe something a beekeeper could also put on their body or hands for while doing inspections.


Hmm... would be hard to separate smoke from smoke + flower smell I'd think.


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## lemmje (Feb 23, 2015)

That's what i thought when i read the article too, but i didn't read much about how they set it up. I do know that incense puts off more fragrance than smoke, and it was an initial article, so i really don't know what i am talking about now.....surprised??


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

lemmje said:


> That's what i thought when i read the article too, but i didn't read much about how they set it up. I do know that incense puts off more fragrance than smoke, and it was an initial article, so i really don't know what i am talking about now.....surprised??


Maybe we should go buy some old lady perfume and give a few colonies a couple puffs of the atomizer and see how they react when we pop them open.  Any volunteers?

For the record, I'm just curious about what you read, not trying to jump you or anything. It is an interesting idea... and I think it would be even more interesting for AHB areas? Although I do no know all of the methods by which colonies sound the alarm, but if a pheromone masking agent more effective than smoke was available that might help.


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## lemmje (Feb 23, 2015)

jwcarlson said:


> For the record, I'm just curious about what you read, not trying to jump you or anything.


I know, and that's how i took it. Just looked up the article on livescience that i read that started my research that day, and here it is:

http://www.livescience.com/53188-flower-aroma-calms-angry-bees.html

From that i did find some other articles on the subject, but i didn't track my research, just knew i started here.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

Grinding up old ladies to make perfume is just plain wrong.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

deknow said:


> Grinding up old ladies to make perfume is just plain wrong.


It's not really grinding so much as squishing all the juice out. In addition, we'd use all parts of the old lady in the process, eliminating unnecessary waste.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

Well, at least nose to tail processing is respectful....


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

> Natural bananas do not contain Isopentyl acetate..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isoamyl_acetate
"Banana oil is made naturally by the banana plant" ( McGee, Harold. On Food and Cooking. 2003, Scribner, New York.)

Try a google search on:
isopentyl acetate is the compound responsible for the scent of bananas


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## jadebees (May 9, 2013)

It seems like AHB have a "We Found Flesh!" pheromone, a "Please sting here as much as you can!" scent. Having seen and experienced the lovely rosette of 25 bees stinging on a spot where 1 stung you, I'm inclined to believe that there are more complications to that pheromone than people think. Plus, That really hurts!!


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## Dan P (Oct 29, 2014)

I would assume from my own experience that its two separate pheromones. One that means defend and attack ( you can smell this one) and another that says "I got the spot" which is secreted while the stinger is pumping venom in your skin.


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