# Thinking About MAQS and TBH



## Thomas Frazier (Aug 25, 2015)

OK so: The FAQs on the Mite-Away page say (among other things):

1) Place strips on top of frames in the brood chamber;
2) They release a vapor that penetrates into capped brood cells and kills mites;
3) Can be used with supers in place;
4) Not recommended for other types of hive i.e. Langstroths only.

Taking 1 and 2 together, could I cut reliefs on each side of the top bars - 3/16" sounds right - creating a 3/8" gap between bars. I could put the strips on top of the bars, and the vapor could diffuse down into the brood area as it does in a Langstroth. I would need to make an inner cover, analogous to the Langstroth, to keep the top enclosed. 

Yes, I know this complicates the traditionally simple TBH design. Sort of creeping toward horizontal Langstroth territory. So what.

Is there some problem I'm not thinking of, which argues against this idea?

Cheers!


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## dudelt (Mar 18, 2013)

I have used MAQS in a top bar hive with some success. I used one pad at a time and just laid it in the bottom next to the brood area. I did need to remove (cut out) a bit of comb to make it fit. It is not as effective as using it in a Langstroth hive but for me, it did work. The fumes are heavier than air and do not distribute as easily as in a Lang. I stopped using it when I started vaporizing OA.


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## Cabin (Nov 30, 2014)

Thomas Frazier said:


> OK so: The FAQs on the Mite-Away page say (among other things):
> 
> 1) Place strips on top of frames in the brood chamber;
> 2) They release a vapor that penetrates into capped brood cells and kills mites;
> ...


Don't! The air flow is all wrong! I tried it on a two long langs and pulled them out after three days.


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## NicoleV (Jan 20, 2017)

Here is my one experience using maqs in a top bar hive. Now I just make my own formic acid pads with a customized dosage of FA based on hive volume and I stick them on the inside walls of the hive at the brood area. I've done many experiments and mite counts 
To get the dosage right. 

I tried using one strip by hanging it in between two bars near the rear of the brood area. The hive also had a window on it so I could monitor the bees' reaction. I also did a mite count using the sugar roll method before and after the treatment. 

Results : 55% mite kill after 7 days. The first day the bees stayed at least 3 combs away from the strip. The second day only some brave bees would go near the strip (I assumed to take care of brood ). By the third day the bees were behaving normally, but I didn't remove the strip until day 7 like the package said. 

After inspection, there was significant brood kill in the combs nearest where the strip was, however the queen was OK.

The cost per strip and queen loss that people were reporting prompted me to come up with my own FA treatment.


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## Thomas Frazier (Aug 25, 2015)

Nicole - that was a very interesting and well-run experiment. Can you give more detail on your treatment protocol?

Welcome to Beesource BTW. Cheers!


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## NicoleV (Jan 20, 2017)

Thomas,

This last fall I decided to really take treating for varroa seriously, so starting August 1st 2016, I inspected each hive every 3 weeks and did a sugar roll mite count each time. I documented how many mites I counted and decided that I would use the threshold of 10 mites per 300 bees for treating. 

My first numbers were higher than I thought they would be. 3 of 7 hives were over threshold, and one showed 27 mites per 300 bees and it was only august! 

The whole protocol was incredibly time consuming, but I learned a lot!

Each time I saw 10 or more mites, I would put in a formic acid soaked pad, wait 3 days, then count again. I documented the outdoor temp and dosage of FA in ml and the mite count after each treatment. I would replace the FA pad every 3 or 4 days until the mite count went well below 10. That is where it got time consuming doing all those mite counts times 7 hives! My dosage gives me anywhere from a 50-75% mite kill each treatment, so most of the time I would do two treatments about 3 or 4 days apart and get the mites back in check. On average, each hive had to be treated about every 6 weeks. 

October was the worst month. With all the varroa bombs in the area, I had two hives where the treatments would kill mites, but the rate that the bees reinfested the hive (from robbing out dying colonies full of varroa) was just as fast as the FA could kill them. I would go two treatments with seemingly no mite kill in one hive, but in the hive next to it, the pads were working just fine. I am convinced they were robbing other colonies because all of a sudden they had vastly greater nectar stores than my other colonies and I just had to put two and two together. 

I had one hive that was just recently split in July and so I counted mites after the queen started laying. There was no capped brood, only eggs and the mite count was incredible! 72 mites per 300 bees! That one took 4 treatments. 

As of this posting all 7 hives are still alive. I'm in California in the San Francisco Bay area and brood rearing doesn't really stop here. My last mite check was around November 1st, and all the hives were under 10. It got too cold to open up the hives after that so I've crossing my fingers this whole time hoping that all the time I spent was worth it. 

I've been using a lower dose of FA than in the MAQS I believe because my pads don't smell nearly as strong and after over probably 30 or so treatments I never lost a queen.


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## erikebrown (Oct 27, 2014)

I've used MAQS in a top bar a couple times.

The first time (in the fall) I just squeezed it between two top bars near the brood area. That seemed to work well, and the hive did fine and overwintered. As part of this, I opened up the front of the hive a bit more to make sure there was enough ventilation, which the instructions say is key.

The second time (last spring) I laid a strip on the inside of an observation window. I didn't ventilate the hive as well as the lost the queen.

I would do it again, I think the between-the-bars method was fine and I would find a way to give the hive more ventilation. Using one strip instead of two (which I did both times) should also help. I will also avoid a spring treatment when the queen is more active the hive is building up.

Good luck!

Erik


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## threepingsthree (Mar 3, 2014)

I modified a treatment option found here http://anr.ext.wvu.edu/r/download/37598 and used formic acid and honey bee healthy on my top bar hives. It knocked the mites back enough that I overwintered 34 of 35 top bar hives successfully, and the one colony I lost was a textbook starve out. You just have to be careful with it, and have enough colonies that you can experiment, I did manage to kill one weaker colony with the treatment.

I timed the fumigation to build strong winter bees, and then followed up with an OA dribble in the dead of winter. Is the fumigation the perfect option? no, but it works when the OA can't, while there is brood formic is king.


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