# What recourse do I have?



## srockey (Feb 8, 2019)

I live in a neighborhood with an HOA. Before I got bees I carefully went through the deed restrictions. There was, and still is, nothing about honeybees. I live in Central Florida. The state of Florida allows 3 hives on neighborhood property unless the HOA has a specific rule against bees. As stated before, there is not a rule. There are rules that say no cows, pigs or chickens. As you can guess though, I got a letter from the company managing the HOA telling me that I need to remove the "Nuisance" bee hives in my yard. I wrote a letter asking them to show me in the covenants where it says no bees...it has been 2 days, and no response. Any suggestions on how I can remedy this situation peacefully?

Thank you,
Steve


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## Gino45 (Apr 6, 2012)

srockey said:


> I live in a neighborhood with an HOA. Before I got bees I carefully went through the deed restrictions. There was, and still is, nothing about honeybees. I live in Central Florida. The state of Florida allows 3 hives on neighborhood property unless the HOA has a specific rule against bees. As stated before, there is not a rule. There are rules that say no cows, pigs or chickens. As you can guess though, I got a letter from the company managing the HOA telling me that I need to remove the "Nuisance" bee hives in my yard. I wrote a letter asking them to show me in the covenants where it says no bees...it has been 2 days, and no response. Any suggestions on how I can remedy this situation peacefully?
> 
> Thank you,
> Steve


Are your bees a nuisance? IOW, do they attack people or animals nearby?


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Give them a chance to mull it over. If bees are not specifically prohibited, then the law appears to be on your side. Would also help if you could find out who complained and maybe figure out a way to placate them. If you have HOA meetings, perhaps you should attend and be ready to advocate for your bees. Bees are not a nuisance unless they are aggressive. In that case, you should requeen with tamer stock.


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## srockey (Feb 8, 2019)

Bees have never bothered anyone...but me.


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## srockey (Feb 8, 2019)

Good idea to attend the HOA meeting. These bees are not aggressive at all. I walk out and stand next to the hives and do not get stung. Also, I use a large riding mower and mow within a foot of the hives, and have never been stung.


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

To prepare, review the HOA ability to amend the rules.


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## elmer_fud (Apr 21, 2018)

Saltybee said:


> To prepare, review the HOA ability to amend the rules.


Keep in mind that if the HOA does change the bylaws/rules, they may still have to grandfather you in since you had hives before they added the new rules. I would look this up in Florida though, because it may vary by state.


Another idea is to move the hives to a different part of your yard away from your neighbors. It may be worth putting a fence around the hives to keep them out of view to make your life easier in the future.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

When my new neighbors *!!!anonymously!!!* complained on my bees - the bees that I kept BEFORE these new neighbors ever moved in and the old neighbors never gave the hoot - I responded that the complainants should demonstrate photographic/video proof of my bees being nuisance.

Never heard back (as I pretty much expected).

Ask for the same.
Also, be prepared to see *yellow jackets or wasps* in that photo/video proof - then be prepared to rebut, based on the photo evidence.
People are surprisingly ignorant, in general.


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## srockey (Feb 8, 2019)

Good idea. Thank you


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## fatoz (Aug 29, 2016)

srockey said:


> Good idea. Thank you


I am in the same boat at this time. My HOA asked me to remove them because they thought they are animals since the covenants have this common language about "no animals, livestock or poultry of any kind." Though I pointed out the NC Honey Bee Act of 1977 which explicitly states honeybees as "insects," they didn't seem to budge. Did also send the definition of animal in Chapter 19A Protection of Animals which defines "animals" as "every living vertebrate in the classes Amphibia, Reptilia, Aves, and Mammalia except human beings." HOA decided to hold a hearing but could not attend due to work. Though I notified them well in advance about my availability, they held the hearing anyway as I heard. Don't know what they have decided yet. 

Wish you best of luck.


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## Plannerwgp (May 18, 2019)

I am an urban planner and zoning expert and this is strictly a legal issue. By the time you pay an attorney you will BEE better off finding a new location. The HOA can adopt its own laws and unfortunately when you move into such a development you give up certain rights. You have not provided information about the size of your lot or how close the homes are to one another but from experience I would assume you are very close to your neighbor. Although everyone on this forum loves bees, neighbors may not be as tolerant especially if you have homes very close toone another. I think you will have a difficult time convincing your association to accept beekeeping. If you have the financial resources you could conatct an attorney who might send a letter on your behalf. An alleged nuisance is very difficult to argue against as that term apperars in even some of the more liberal zoning ordinances that permit bees.


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## username00101 (Apr 17, 2019)

What can your HOA do exactly if you refuse to remove the bees?


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Plannerwgp said:


> ..... An alleged nuisance is very difficult to argue against as that term apperars in even some of the more liberal zoning ordinances that permit bees.


Last year I spent lots of personal time and effort that paid of - our city has now official ruling and documentation that defines and permits beekeeping within the city.
What helped a LOT - one elected city counsel member was himself a beekeeper (he now is the elected city mayor - even better).

This being said, I encourage to always challenge the claims of so-called nuisance and ask for indisputable proof (e.g. bees at someone's swimming pool photographed will be hard to argue against; yellow jackets at the humming bird feeder, however, will make you a great favor to point the finger at and show how unfairly you, the beekeeper, are persecuted). 

Like our current mayor says - bees and dogs are under the same nuisance definition. 
Some dogs peeing onto my front yard are nuisance IF I choose to pursue the issue (I will IF pressed, but I don't because I am a generally reasonable person).
If anything, the dogs are by far the most annoying nuisance in most locations (for sure, mine).
Two neighbors back, those people had a very aggravating dog that would charge my kids through the hedge - THAT is nuisance and some. 
I never complained - they were nice folks.
Lest not forget, people are allergic to the dogs just as well as to the bees and dog parasites can jump to humans. And dogs can bite.
And so I prefer people don't press me on the nuisance issues - I say stand your ground IF you can while still remaining reasonable.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

username00101 said:


> What can your HOA do exactly if you refuse to remove the bees?


you must investigate your exact local context.
no one can tell you the answer - you, the local beek, must be the expert in your local situation, not some BS folks from across the county (or the globe).


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## Antarctica (Sep 10, 2014)

Never buy a house that you can't pee of the front porch of..


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## elmer_fud (Apr 21, 2018)

Antarctica said:


> Never buy a house that you can't pee of the front porch of..


:lpf:


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## ericweller (Jan 10, 2013)

username00101 said:


> What can your HOA do exactly if you refuse to remove the bees?


The HOA can affix fines to the deed of the house which must be collected before the house can be sold.


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## Schultz (Mar 9, 2015)

Antarctica said:


> Never buy a house that you can't pee of the front porch of..


 That's very good advice!:thumbsup:


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Antarctica said:


> Never buy a house that you can't pee of the front porch of..


Thank God I live in the country. Front porch, back porch, apiary, its all good.


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## srockey (Feb 8, 2019)

:lpf:


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## srockey (Feb 8, 2019)

Well, I got a surprise email from my HOA today. After my challenging them on 2 points:
1. How and why are my bees considered a nuisance?
2. Before I got bees I thoroughly checked the covenants and nowhere does it say anything about bees.


the email I got stated... "Consider the matter closed."
My bees can stay! I still plan on going to a board meeting and verifying the issue. Thank you for all the advice. I am quite surprised it was resolved this easily.

Steve


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

srockey said:


> Well, I got a surprise email from my HOA today. After my challenging them on 2 points:
> 1. How and why are my bees considered a nuisance?
> 2. Before I got bees I thoroughly checked the covenants and nowhere does it say anything about bees.
> 
> ...


Very good.
For now.
Stay alert.


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## elmer_fud (Apr 21, 2018)

srockey said:


> Well, I got a surprise email from my HOA today. After my challenging them on 2 points:
> 1. How and why are my bees considered a nuisance?
> 2. Before I got bees I thoroughly checked the covenants and nowhere does it say anything about bees.
> 
> ...


Wow, you have an HOA that actually has some common sense. Sounds like you are in good shape.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Great news! Still might be a good idea to pass around a few small jars of honey to the neighbors. Be wary of the ones that refuse your gift as they will be trouble later. First time a wasp stings someone, they will be at your door.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

JWPalmer said:


> Great news! Still might be a good idea to pass around a few small jars of honey to the neighbors. Be wary of the ones that refuse your gift as they will be trouble later. First time a wasp stings someone, they will be at your door.


The "anonymous" neighbors of mine took the honey - not a problem.
Then complained anyway (maybe the reason they went underground when complaining - since they took the honey).
On the other hand, those same neighbors are very quick to say all the right things, like - "I will ALWAYS come to you and talk in person first, BEFORE complaining away.....blah, blah".
Never say never, I guess.

PS: you ask me HOW do I know to blame these neighbors? 
because I am one of THE original residents on my street and know few people around


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## gone2seed (Sep 18, 2011)

In Florida make sure you are a registered apiary. According to my bee inspector this makes all the difference. His words were,"if you are registered no one can make you move them".For registration go to Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services---Division of Plant Industry. A word from them might help with the HOA. Florida laws tend to be bee friendly.


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## NCBeeGuy (Aug 14, 2018)

JWPalmer said:


> Great news! Still might be a good idea to pass around a few small jars of honey to the neighbors. Be wary of the ones that refuse your gift as they will be trouble later. First time a wasp stings someone, they will be at your door.


I can pee off all sides of the house, and STILL hand out free honey to the immediate neighbors. Figure it cant hurt. strategic bushes/fence help too - you cant tell the bees where to go, but keeping them out of sight helps too. 

Glad it sounds like things are resolved for now!!


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## ifixoldhouses (Feb 27, 2019)

srockey said:


> Well, I got a surprise email from my HOA today. After my challenging them on 2 points:
> 1. How and why are my bees considered a nuisance?
> 2. Before I got bees I thoroughly checked the covenants and nowhere does it say anything about bees.
> 
> ...


That means your a go for 10 more hives


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## Barhopper (Mar 5, 2015)

gone2seed said:


> In Florida make sure you are a registered apiary. According to my bee inspector this makes all the difference. His words were,"if you are registered no one can make you move them".For registration go to Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services---Division of Plant Industry. A word from them might help with the HOA. Florida laws tend to be bee friendly.


I would make sure that you’re registered with the state. They can be very helpful in situations like yours. If you want the inspectors name and number PM me and I’ll get it to you or just call them. If you’re in the area that starts with a V get ready.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

srockey said:


> the email I got stated... "Consider the matter closed."
> My bees can stay! I still plan on going to a board meeting and verifying the issue.


Since you got it in writing, going to the board meeting to "verify" will only unnecessarily re-raise the issue, with no possible benefit to you. I'd follow the Board's advice and consider the matter closed. I'd also start handing out honey like mad to everyone in your area.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

shinbone said:


> Since you got it in writing, *going to the board meeting to "verify" will only unnecessarily re-raise the issue, with no possible benefit to you. * I'd follow the Board's advice and consider the matter closed. I'd also start handing out honey like mad to everyone in your area.


+1.
Hold onto that paper and make no more unnecessary noises.
Cultivate positive relationships around - honey bribe giving generally should help.
When next time incident comes along - get the support testimonies from your "honey customers".


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

You do not say what size the hives are.
You will need to keep a close eye on their temperament. They have an amazing ability to go from nice to nasty with a small increase in size.

well done.


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## Hops Brewster (Jun 17, 2014)

JWPalmer said:


> First time a wasp stings someone, they will be at your door.


So very true JW!

Make certain you are in compliance with state and local laws and, for the love of Mike, keep a low profile. Advertising your beek hobby to the neighbors all too often results in secret or not-so-secret enemies, especially in rat-fink infested HOAs.


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## JConnolly (Feb 21, 2015)

srockey said:


> The state of Florida allows 3 hives on neighborhood property unless the HOA has a specific rule against bees.


Lobby your state legislator (work with other beeks and beekeeping clubs) so that municipalities and municipal like organizations (HOAs) cannot prohibit beehives but can regulate quantity (establish a minimum) according to property size. Other states have enacted similar laws.


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## blainenay (Oct 14, 2011)

srockey said:


> ...I got a letter from the company managing the HOA telling me that I need to remove the "Nuisance" bee hives in my yard.....


This is why all my neighbors get a pint of honey every year. Bribed neighbors don't complain.


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## jimbo3 (Jun 7, 2015)

srockey said:


> Well, I got a surprise email from my HOA today. After my challenging them on 2 points:
> 1. How and why are my bees considered a nuisance?
> 2. Before I got bees I thoroughly checked the covenants and nowhere does it say anything about bees.
> 
> ...


Not to be a jerk, but I'm guessing it has a lot to do with your hive's location. If they're close to your neighbor and they happen to be allergic (or even not and they still get stung) then I can see their point. I mean, a couple of hives can equal 60000 bees or more flying in the vicinity. Gentle or not at least one is likely to sting at some point. And then what about swarms? OMG, think of the pictures your HOA neighbors can provide when they can't get their mail because a huge swarm of "mean" bees decide to make camp in their mailbox. 

In conclusion, if you want to own a house and do what you want, never buy into an HOA or condo. You've already had problems. Get the hell out while you can.


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## tycrnp (May 21, 2017)

I live in Florida as well, and it is my understanding that beekeeping is regulated at the state level. I believe this changed in 2012 when legislation was passed to prevent local governments from interfering with beekeeping.


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## Yunzow (Mar 16, 2017)

I'm glad things worked out for you. For now.
Best that neighbors are unaware that you have hives at all. Whatever you can do to hide them.

I once bought honey from a man in Grovetown. I was like where are your hives. He pointed to a stump in the yard and said that was one. I had no idea....


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## blainenay (Oct 14, 2011)

tycrnp said:


> I live in Florida as well, and it is my understanding that beekeeping is regulated at the state level. I believe this changed in 2012 when legislation was passed to prevent local governments from interfering with beekeeping.


You are correct. Local governments in Florida are restricted from regulating beekeeping. An HOA, however, is not a government entity. Arbitrary and capricious HOA covenants are why I'll never live in one.


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

Move my bees or move my furniture ? Do you like your unit for now?

I don't mind peeing in a toilet if I have to. Lived in the city for over 15 years (well a Maine city) liked that too.

Plenty of room now to pee out the back door, though the front is awfully close to the road.

I've managed condo rentals before, boards blow every which way depending upon turnover. Today is today with any group of people with any amount of power.


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## elmer_fud (Apr 21, 2018)

blainenay said:


> You are correct. Local governments in Florida are restricted from regulating beekeeping. An HOA, however, is not a government entity. Arbitrary and capricious HOA covenants are why I'll never live in one.


I know where I live the local town rules have a clause in the chicken section that HOA's may impose higher levels of restrictions than the town rules. There is no such clause for beekeeping in the town rules about beekeeping so I don't think my HOA can actually do anything about me having bees. It also helps that my neighbors on the side of the yard with the hives grew up on a farm and do not have any problems with bees.


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

Antarctica said:


> Never buy a house that you can't pee of the front porch of..


LMAO,, Plus 1 agree.


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

elmer_fud said:


> I know where I live the local town rules have a clause in the chicken section that HOA's may impose higher levels of restrictions than the town rules. There is no such clause for beekeeping in the town rules about beekeeping so I don't think my HOA can actually do anything about me having bees. It also helps that my neighbors on the side of the yard with the hives grew up on a farm and do not have any problems with bees.


Ummm Yes they can. If you read the fine print of almost every HOA , it will eventually say in some fancy lingo,, "we reserve the right to change these rules if we feel motivated" I just moved, and I have read thru the rules of 3 or 4 HOA's actually called 2 of them and the Bees are either "pets" or Livestock" The HOA has appointed itself Dominion over this. You can ignore, In writing ask for the evidence of the Nuisance is a good idea. End of the day, I did not move into an HOA, I do not "thrive" in a place where some busy body tells me what to do. And my advice is to find a Realtor, or a local farmer who would allow your bees to be on his ground. I have done Both, I like my new place  BTW and the farmer likes the bees there as well. Life is too short to put up with HOAs, in my opinion.
GG


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## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

Everyone needs an outyard. If you run into neighbor problems, simply move your hives to the outyard. These conflicts escalate, and the beekeeper is (virtually) always the loser.


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

JWChesnut said:


> Everyone needs an outyard. If you run into neighbor problems, simply move your hives to the outyard. These conflicts escalate, and the beekeeper is (virtually) always the loser.


Concur,, Dogs bite and it is blamed on the dog owner. Bees sting so lets go after the bee keeper. If your neighbor hood allows and are nice about your bees then you are typically lucky as it just seems to not go that way as often


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

JWChesnut said:


> Everyone needs an outyard. If you run into neighbor problems, simply move your hives to the outyard. These conflicts escalate, and the beekeeper is (virtually) always the loser.


Agreed.
I have been preaching - before you ever get your first bees - arrange for the plan B (an out-yard).
Maybe the out-yard will even become the primary yard for some people. 
If you don't have a plan B (or don't want to be bothered about it), maybe you should not keep bees.

People don't get that.
Unfortunately, the propaganda of soft and friendly, striped bugs (looking just like yellow jackets) is really strong and starting with the kids.
Then we get surprises.
My other neighbor got a bumblebee in his house 1-2 years go - thought it was probably from me.


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## kaizen (Mar 20, 2015)

srockey said:


> Well, I got a surprise email from my HOA today. After my challenging them on 2 points:
> 1. How and why are my bees considered a nuisance?
> 2. Before I got bees I thoroughly checked the covenants and nowhere does it say anything about bees.
> 
> ...


If you have a fenced in back yard i'd add another enclosure of 6 foot fence and close them in totally. Not seen and not an issue. However whoever complained already will continue to. So to enjoy your bees start shopping for another location. Just in case. Last thing you want is a neighbor spraying raid on them. 
HOA's seem like dystopian nazi's created them. Whats in the rules doesnt even matter as they can change them at will. Not sure why anyone would give up that much freedom. sucks that you have to waste any energy on this foolishness. 
BTW op bees are considered livestock like cows and chickens so i'm guessing they are going to change the language to be more vague.


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## Eaglerock (Jul 8, 2008)

srockey said:


> I live in a neighborhood with an HOA. Before I got bees I carefully went through the deed restrictions. There was, and still is, nothing about honeybees. I live in Central Florida. The state of Florida allows 3 hives on neighborhood property unless the HOA has a specific rule against bees. As stated before, there is not a rule. There are rules that say no cows, pigs or chickens. As you can guess though, I got a letter from the company managing the HOA telling me that I need to remove the "Nuisance" bee hives in my yard. I wrote a letter asking them to show me in the covenants where it says no bees...it has been 2 days, and no response. Any suggestions on how I can remedy this situation peacefully?
> 
> Thank you,
> Steve


I received a similar letter a few years ago... 2010 or 11 maybe. Anyways, I had way more than 3 hives behind my office building. They went to the township and wanted me to remove my bees because they were pooping on their cars. lol 

They never told me they were having this special meeting and it was in the paper... yes the whole nine yards. Came into my yard and took pictures. 

I did nothing... I did reduce the number I had back there down to about 12-15 and this year I only have 8 or 10 depending. There were 10 but I moved two to another location. 

I even received letters for their attorney and a phone call from her. I told her to do what she thinks she must, but the bees are there and not hurting anyone. She said she spoke with another beekeeper and he said that we are only allowed

3 hives or should only have 3 hives where he was. Well, I am NOT living in Pittsburgh and tell that to every other commercial beekeeper. LOL She went on and on about what I needed to do and what will happen if I don't and thought she 

could use all her scare tactics with me, but I am far to old and wise for her BS.

I am still waiting for her next move. *smirk*


PS. I have a fence around mine to keep out the animals. I put up a camera in case idiots tried to spray them.


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## Beecd (Dec 21, 2015)

In some states honey bees are defined by law as "livestock." if your HOA uses that terminology in your covenants you may be out of luck. I hope they stick to references to pigs, chickens, ducks and geese."


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## jimbo3 (Jun 7, 2015)

Beecd said:


> In some states honey bees are defined by law as "livestock." if your HOA uses that terminology in your covenants you may be out of luck. I hope they stick to references to pigs, chickens, ducks and geese."


That would be great for me as I could legally eradicate the bear(s) that's been destroying my hives the past few years.


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## jimbo3 (Jun 7, 2015)

"If you have a fenced in back yard i'd add another enclosure of 6 foot fence and close them in totally."

Unfortunately, the fence would likely be a violation of the HOA.


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## Eaglerock (Jul 8, 2008)

jimbo3 said:


> "If you have a fenced in back yard i'd add another enclosure of 6 foot fence and close them in totally."
> 
> Unfortunately, the fence would likely be a violation of the HOA.


Fences are not usually a violation. That would put fencing companies out of jobs. 

I think checking the local ordnance would be where to start, or contact a fence company and have them install it. 

They know what they can and cannot do.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Eaglerock said:


> Fences are not usually a violation. ......


In our HOA fences are forbidden.

Well, I have a live fence - these are landscaping feature and are allowed.
Only took about 5 year to grow up to the spec 6 feet.
I really love my hedges.


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## Eaglerock (Jul 8, 2008)

GregV said:


> In our HOA fences are forbidden.
> 
> Well, I have a live fence - these are landscaping feature and are allowed.
> Only took about 5 year to grow up to the spec 6 feet.
> I really love my hedges.


Hedges would be awesome!


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Eaglerock said:


> Hedges would be awesome!


Yes.
It may cost OR have to have patience.
I spent $30 for a beg of hedge material (Amur Privet).
I also waited 4-5 years - had no bees yet - was not a problem.
Now, I have the thing that is worth A LOT.


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## Billboard (Dec 28, 2014)

Tell them to go to Hell and start another hive.


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## witalis007 (Nov 7, 2018)

srockey said:


> My bees can stay! I still plan on going to a board meeting and verifying the issue.
> Steve


Steve(srockey) I'm super happy things turned out the way they did so far! Excellent news. 
Please be sure to update us on what happened at the meeting and let us know if you took any further steps to ensure that the HOA and your neighbors stay off your back. 

Thanks


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## srockey (Feb 8, 2019)

It’s been a while and a lot has happened. After the HOA management company said ok, about a week later I got a “get rid of the bees letter.” From the HOA attorney. I questioned the reason and they said I have an “agricultural enterprise” being conducted in a residential neighborhood. Huh? Can you say hobby? Anyway I went to the homeowners meeting and pleaded my case. In the end it was 1 neighbor who complained. She thought the beehives would lower her property value when she tries to sell her house. I have talked to the neighbor, they will not change, they will not listen. The homeowner association president asked if I could move the hives to the other side of the yard. I asked for 2 weeks. They said ok. The neighbor was still not happy but she cannot see the hives any more. Sadly I think she is not done complaining. We shall see. After the meeting, I had 2 families come up to me and ask if their kids could come see the bees. 

We currently live in a neighborhood and have a large lot, 0.47 acres on a retention pond. I would love to live out in the country, but that sadly is not not possible. I have, though, secured 2 alternative locations if the worst happens here in the neighborhood.


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

Hey if they want to see the bees you may get another beekeeper in the neighborhood and get more interested there also and help your cause.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Does a garden constitute an "agricultural enterprise" also? Time to go to Google Earth and see what is in your neighborhood.

Personally, I would tell the HOA that it is not their fight as you are not breaking any rules and they should tell the 1 complainant to go pound sand.


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## srockey (Feb 8, 2019)

That's what I tried to tell the lawyer. I have a garden and an avocado tree and I sell the avocados. She tried to say not many people have bees. In Florida, there are over 4000 backyard beekeepers.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

So they are electing to have selective enforcement or application of their agricultural enterprise restrictions? All or none, no bees, no gardens, no selling puppies, etc. Or you could handle it in Don Corleone fashion and have the PIA nieghbor dormire con i pesci , jk, I think. Wow, what a fiasco.


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## elmer_fud (Apr 21, 2018)

hmmm, 

What are the rules on tall flagpoles in your neighborhood?

Any interest in a roof top TV antenna? If it is under a certain size (I have often seen 36") your HOA can not do anything about it and it is definitely way worse for property values than a beehive. This article sort of covers the details https://www.groundedreason.com/tv-antennas-fcc-hoa/

Have any friends that would like to store cars at your place?

You could add some ceramic flower pots to your front yard https://www.google.com/search?q=cer...-e_kAhWJv54KHa4OCCgQ_AUIEigC&biw=1483&bih=825

I should probably stop before I get you (or me) into to much trouble


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

You forgot the garden gnomes and pink plastic flamingos.:lookout:


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Although bees may not be excluded specifically, there may be something about causing a nuisance. In general.


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## elmer_fud (Apr 21, 2018)

JWPalmer said:


> You forgot the garden gnomes and pink plastic flamingos.:lookout:


how about a 5 ft tall velociraptor statue in the front yard? https://www.designtoscano.com/produ...10015.do?sortby=ourPicks&refType=&from=Search

I want one of these but I can not justify it in any way.

edit: or it smaller cousin https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B012TUTM1Q/ref=ox_sc_act_title_13?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1 This one was about $35 and has been bouncing up and down in price.


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## fatoz (Aug 29, 2016)

srockey said:


> That's what I tried to tell the lawyer. I have a garden and an avocado tree and I sell the avocados. She tried to say not many people have bees. In Florida, there are over 4000 backyard beekeepers.


I was also on the same boat earlier but our HOA finally decided not to pursue the issue anymore. I think you may want to appeal the decision and invite some of your neighbors to join you at the hearing. You may also want to double-check that Agricultural Enterprise thing whether it is in the covenants and how it's defined legally. You can ask for further justification from the HOA attorney unless you have done so. 

"Ambiguous covenants are strictly construed in favor of free use of property" as far as the courts concerned. If you search by using this phrase, you can find a lot court decisions related to HOAs. If your covenets were as old as mine (about 20 years), I am sure they are very vague too. Here is an interesting read at https://www.dorough.com/honeybees-and-homeowners-associations-a-sweet-partnership/

You should consider contacting board members individually to make your case, if possible. I am guessing that the complainant in your case may be well connected with some of those board members, therefore you should be strategic.


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## 357 (May 2, 2016)

As far as the agri-business angle, many states have a cottage food law that allows you to sell up to a certain $ amount ($10,000 annually in Michigan) products produced at your home: jellies, baked goods, produce, maple syrup, and honey. The idea is you don't have to spring for a certified kitchen, sugar shack, or honey house if you're just a hobbyist. Michigan has labelling requirements of such but I've never heard of an HOA blocking any of the things mentioned in that list except possibly bees. It might help to research a cottage food law in Florida.


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