# pre-swarm scouting?



## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

It sounds to me like you're on the right path. Good luck. It's like fishing - if you don't have a line in the water you are not going to catch anything. 5 lines improves your odds.


----------



## mtndewluvr (Oct 28, 2012)

I am all set up with around 25 bait hives...but I've caught nothing in them so far. However, our local beekeeping association members have a couple of facebook pages where swarm calls are posted. I have managed to get three swarms already by removing them manually...one just by cutting and shaking a limb into a hive box, and the other two using a swarm pole (you can see the removals on my blog). I'm just saying, even while you wait for bees to install themselves into your bait hives, you can still "cherry pick" them off of trees if you have a good way to hear about them, and then be ready to go and beat others to them. Good luck!


----------



## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

Yeah, call the police, animal control, 911 and see if they keep a list of people willing to retrieve swarms.


----------



## lamoka (Feb 2, 2013)

Just wanted to update and look for more advice. The swarm box I put on the tree with the feral hive in it has bees in it. It was cold today high of 40 degrees and I got up and looked into the opening with a flashlight and I could see a pretty good sized cluster of bees it appears they have started building comb but it was hard to tell as I was looking into a 1" hole. This trap is a lang deep I put top bars in so I could move the bars to my TBH. Two days ago when the weather was nice I noticed a lot of activity with bees coming and going but I saw no pollen being brought in which I understand is normal if they do not have comb built up yet. I had no comb to put in this trap so all I have is empty top bars in it. My biggest concern is how long should I leave it till I take it down and put the bars into my TBH. I am also concerned that I set the trap up to close to the existing hive and that this may cause issues. As stated before I am new to bee keeping and could use all the advice I can get.


----------



## beesintrees (Jan 25, 2013)

Hi lamoka,

Like you I'm just getting started luring bees this swarm season. My lure boxes have been out over a month. At one of my lure locations I have 5 lures within about 150 yards. I'm using all 8 frame medium boxes built using a modification of the Drew Coates style 5 Frame Nuc. Google if you like. My boxes are all unpainted and built using old 1/2" thick plywood.

At position one (heavily shaded) I set up a stand to hold the lure bottoms about 8" off the ground. I have 2 lures there side by side. One lure is 2 boxes stacked and the lure beside it is 3 boxes stacked. Those are about 15 ft from the base of a tree to which came swarms for the last 2 years. The bees didn't stay there more than a few months each time. I think squirrels destroyed the hives or intimidated the bees into leaving. The 2-1/2” diameter entrance to the hollow is 17 ft high. I screened off the entrance hoping bees would enter my lures instead and to prevent squirrels from running off more bees. I like squirrels - fried.

At position two (about 75 yards East from position one and shaded for only part of the day) I have 2 stacks of lures, with the bottom stack separated from the ground only by a portable 2" thick cement pad about 16 inches square. On top of that lure is the other stack of 2 boxes.

At position 3 (about another 75 yards East and only evening sun) I have another stand like the first one and I put only one stack of two boxes there. That is a total of 5 lure choices within 150 yards and gives the bees some variety from which I hope to learn how they think and what they prefer in cavity size and location.

Monday this week I drove to the location and saw interest being shown at all 3 positions. The one at the base of the bee tree was getting the most interest. At position 2 there was slightly less interest in the top lure of that stack and at position 3 there was minimal interest. After about an hour of being parked there, the bees were even checking out the lures I haul around in my PU truck in case I see a swarm on a limb someplace. Scouts from the same swarm were checking out all 3 positions, but eventually they picked position one, nearest the bee tree.

The swarm I got seems to prefer a stack 2 boxes high, 8 inches off the ground and in a place where there is plenty of shade. The bee tree is also near a year round water source and at the edge of a hay meadow. Be aware that a different size swarm might prefer a different size box and that another swarm might like full sun etc. But they need a handy water source.

I'm hesitant to move the swarm which picked almost full shade into full sun or even to a partial sun location because the swarm made its choice clear.

So far I have a total of 11 lures out. This is my first season luring bees and I have more questions than answers. But you are on a forum where you'll get plenty of input, help and encouragement. Also, the members might answer you with more than one scenario for the questions you ask. That's been very helpful to me because I could apply the answers I got based on the details of my exact situation. I bet they'll do the same for you.

Good luck, keep researching and keep trying.
bnt


----------



## cerezha (Oct 11, 2011)

My first ever swarm was complete failure - I drop them on the ground full of pine needles. Second one occupied my Tenuki sculpture, they used his open mouth as an entrance - I damaged them trying to move into TBH. Next one took 70% of my bees, said bye-bye and dissipated in blue sky. Next one: I did a gardening and noticed that it is getting dark... I discovered myself inside the swarm from my own hive - girls landed on the deck and marched into the nuc, which I forgot to put back into garage. Now, it is my strongest hive. Another swarm was in avocado tree - it is finishing its deep now. Last one occupied my old boxes irresponsibly left on garage roof - in 2 weeks, they are in 3 mediums and one medium 70% full of honey. It is getting little bit crowded here 
As you could see, my bee story is so short that I remember all my swarms...


----------



## Rick 1456 (Jun 22, 2010)

JMHO,,,,,,,Odds are the box on the tree will not lure a swarm from that tree. Nature want to spread their "seeds" out. Not to say, a swarm from another source won't move in. Funny how that works, but that has been my experience. Often when I put lure boxes up, bees in the area will investigate simply because to them, it is a potential source for "goodies." They detect the old comb or the lemon grass oil etc. and check it out. I put a box up and very soon saw bees going in. Then they came out with bits of wax and flew home. The good news is, it means bees have found the box. No data to support this, but seems they "remember" for future use Bees investigating a potential new home exhibit a distinctive behavior. They dash in and out, land on the entrance, run around, fly around the box checking it out. "flit" their wings,,,very excited. Saw one beg for food at the entrance one time. Never had seen that before. Might even see fighting if other hives bees are looking too. Anyway,,,just my observations. 
Rick


----------



## lamoka (Feb 2, 2013)

Rick 1456 said:


> JMHO,,,,,,,Odds are the box on the tree will not lure a swarm from that tree. Nature want to spread their "seeds" out. Not to say, a swarm from another source won't move in. Funny how that works, but that has been my experience. Often when I put lure boxes up, bees in the area will investigate simply because to them, it is a potential source for "goodies." They detect the old comb or the lemon grass oil etc. and check it out. I put a box up and very soon saw bees going in. Then they came out with bits of wax and flew home. The good news is, it means bees have found the box. No data to support this, but seems they "remember" for future use Bees investigating a potential new home exhibit a distinctive behavior. They dash in and out, land on the entrance, run around, fly around the box checking it out. "flit" their wings,,,very excited. Saw one beg for food at the entrance one time. Never had seen that before. Might even see fighting if other hives bees are looking too. Anyway,,,just my observations.
> Rick


Rick this is what I was thinking too and I was going to take the box down and relocate but that's when I noticed the increased activity. The last nice day they where fanning, and coming and going. yesterday when I climbed up and shown the light in the entrance opening there is a definite "clump of bees hanging down from one of the top bars I can see. So at this point I am not sure what is going on most of the reading I have done would indicate this is not a swarm but to this novice it looks like one right down to having 3 or 4 guard bees at the opening. Its a little warmer today and I will go and try to get a better look its still only in the 40,s so I doubt they will be flying.


----------



## Rick 1456 (Jun 22, 2010)

It's all part of the fun of it. I've had bees camp out in the box and leave the next morning. I've seen them guard the entrance and I would have sworn there was a swarm inside. Then they are gone. Came back a week later and definitely moved in. All I think you can do is wait till there is something that confirms it. I usually wait till I see a stream of pollen coming in. Tells me the queen is laying and it's home. Then I move them. 
Rick


----------



## lamoka (Feb 2, 2013)

Thanks Rick I was debating between leaving them for a while or moving them. I watched them for about a half an hour this morning and they are not bringing in pollen but they are definitely leaving and coming back so I am assuming they are collecting nectar. As best as I can tell they are building on three of the bars but I cant tell beyond that, I am wishing I had put a viewing window in this trap so I could see what is going on. One of my concerns is that they may build to big of comb to fit in my TBH as it is tapered and they are in a lang deep but I guess I could always put the top bars into my empty Lang I have set up and see if that would work. I thought I had learned a lot till now and I am realizing there is so much more to learn. One thing I have noticed is that these guys seem very docile so far they do not seem to mind me looking into the trap with a flashlight and they just fly past me to get back in or out. Another thing I noticed is that the "original" hive that is in the tree is very active with lots of bees bringing pollen in I have no idea if the bees in my bait trap are from this hive or not but if they are I don't think the main hives numbers are hurting any.


----------



## lamoka (Feb 2, 2013)

Ok so I checked the trap on the way to work today and they are bringing pollen in like crazy so I guess I better get serious about getting them out of the trap and into a hive.


----------



## lamoka (Feb 2, 2013)

I decided to take the trap down and move it to where I hope to hive it. I took it down last night at dusk and moved it and put a cut branch in front of the entrance. I was wondering how long if any time I should wait to take the bees out and put them into the TBH. I planned on watching them today and if they seem to be acting normal I may open the trap up this afternoon and see how much comb they have built, I have not opened it yet and really have no idea how much they have built. The trap is a deep Lang fitted with Top bars so they have a fair amount of space to build. Any advise would be appreciated the deeper I get into this the more I realize I have a lot to learn.


----------



## cerezha (Oct 11, 2011)

Do you have a reason to intrude? If not, let them beeeeeee for a while. They are kind self-sufficient. Believe or not - they probably just do not need your "help" at this moment of their development.


----------



## Rick 1456 (Jun 22, 2010)

The hope will be that they have attached to the bars the way you want. If they have, time is on your side. New comb is fragile. If they have not, it would seem the sooner you correct the mess the better. Just me, I would take a peek and decide from there. It is amazing how fast a swarm will draw comb. 
Rick


----------



## lamoka (Feb 2, 2013)

My only reason to intrude is that I am concerned as Rick pointed out that I may have some messed up comb being built that may make it difficult to take out and put into my TBH, I am also a little concerned about the heat I did not put any vents in the swarm trap so all it has its 1 1/4" opening and it hit 90 degrees today. I watched it for a while today and they where very active with lots of orientation flights poor girls seem really confused I am back and forth on my best action I am leaning towards opening them up to take a quick peek tomorrow to make sure they are not making a big mess with the comb. One thing I am going to do with all my swarm traps besides putting vents in them is putting an observation window in like I have in my TBH that way I can look in and check on them without opening them up. Thanks for the help this is definitely a learn as I go project.


----------



## cerezha (Oct 11, 2011)

lamoka said:


> ... I may have some messed up comb being built that may make it difficult to take out and put into my TBH..,


 As usual - as many suggestions as many beekeepers ... available at beesource  In my opinion, a few days peace is more important for you bees now, than messed comb. They need to establish themselves. If comb messed - it is relatively easy to fix - I have a great success with hair-clips (youtube). I had a nuc where girls decided to put comb diagonal (!)  I let them to be established and than moved them into the hive and re-adjust the comb - it is strongest my hive now!!! The thing is - you are trying to balance between your and bees convenience. They are different things!


lamoka said:


> ...I am also a little concerned about the heat I did not put any vents in the swarm trap so all it has its 1 1/4" opening and it hit 90 degrees today. ...


 I really do not think it should be a problem. I have a hive on the roof due space limitation - it is Southern California! Hive has very small entrance, 40x10 mm may be... Before it was 4-frame deep-size nuc with 1" hole entrance and no other ventilation, even bottom board. They did great on the sun. My another hive sealed the top entrance I offered to them. It seems to me that bees could manage the heat quite nicely. Keep in mind - all my hives are foundationless and many - TBs. Good luck with your bees!


----------



## lamoka (Feb 2, 2013)

I opened up the trap this morning and found that I did not have all top bars in this trap it was one that I put top bars and frames with Foundation so I guess these bees will be going into a Lang In hind sight I don't think this was a great idea. I have 5 frames and 5 top bars in this trap. I did not want to disturb them any more then I had to so I did not move most of the bars and frames. They have nice straight comb drawn out about 5" deep on two of the TB and they have started pulling comb on one of the foundations. These bees seem super easy going I did not use any smoke till the very end then just a puff to chase them off the top bars so I could put the migration lid back on. I did not have one bee land on me but honestly I barely disturbed them. I have a feeling I may have messed up running both top bars and frames in some of my traps not sure how this is all going to pan out. My thoughts now are to give them a week and then take the bottom off the trap and sit it on a hive stand and bottom board them put a regular inner and telescoping hive cover on them. As they expand I would put a medium or another deep with frames but no foundation on. I am torn between feeling good about how things are going and really nervous about how this is all going to end up, one thing for sure is I am learning a lot hopefully I don't mess this up to badly learning. Thanks for all the advice from everyone and keep it coming next time I open it I hope to get some pics to post.


----------



## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

Sounds to me like it's working out fine. If you're going the Lang route, I would remove any top bars that are undrawn and replace them with frames Then, during the course of the year, start moving the drawn top bars toward the outside until she is no longer laying in them and replace them with frames.


----------



## cerezha (Oct 11, 2011)

lamoka said:


> ... They have nice straight comb drawn out about 5" deep on two of the TB and they have started pulling comb on one of the foundations. ...


 See!!!! You need to believe in them! They are good girls!


----------



## lamoka (Feb 2, 2013)

I opened the bees up today to see how they where doing they actually have drawn comb on two of the TBH bars and have pulled comb on one of the fondations. I actually saw the queen and it looks like they have some capped brood. The comb pulled on foundation they have nectar and pollen stores in. I kept the inspection really short and was amazed once again how easy going these bees are. My wife and oldest daughter watched me and the bees never landed on any of us.


----------



## lamoka (Feb 2, 2013)

Ok I think I have posting pics figured out. Here is a couple pics showing the queen and some brood capped and un capped . I am very excited. I think I will give them one more week then I will put them into a lang I took the Top bars out of the trap that did not have comb on them and replaced with frames with no foundation with a starter strip. Hopefully the two TBH bars will work ok in the lang


----------



## Rick 1456 (Jun 22, 2010)

Nice,,,,,thanks
Rick


----------

