# Cordless Oxalic Acid Vaporizer 18 seconds!



## Kamon A. Reynolds (Apr 15, 2012)

Love new mite killing machines!!


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

Nice unit, over priced, and doesn't even come with the battery. I'm just a hobbyist on limited income so no way I can't afford that one myself. These things need to be priced for someone other than a side liner or commercial beek. The greed and inflation in this country is flabbergasting to me, just plain hard to believe. I guess i was taught this country was something other than what it really is.


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## Arnie (Jan 30, 2014)

Kamon,
Can you post a link here?
I'm not seeing it on the video


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

Here Arnie, the link is if you watch the vid on Youtube and not in here in kamon's window.









InstantVap 18V


The highest quality commercial battery powered unit on the market! We are the only US supplier/partner to help keep consumer costs as low as possible while pushing quality and customer service per usual. Manufactured in Hungary. All warranty work done state side. Does NOT come with battery’s...




lorobbees.com


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## Arnie (Jan 30, 2014)

Thanks Ray!!


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## Kamon A. Reynolds (Apr 15, 2012)

Thanks for posting the link Ray.

Lack of competition and innovation is the number 1 issue in this industry.

It wasn't that long ago pro vaps was $500 for their basic band heater model and that was almost the only option we had.
Now we have more affordable options or faster pro models like this one that have stainless steel bodies and interiors that require no cords, inverters, generators etc.

Thankfully there are still great cost effective units out there that are plenty fast for the smaller beekeepers. Who knows what the future will bring.

For my operation, not having all the inverters, generators, cords, and measuring out OA saves me money and time. So this unit makes a lot of sense for me.


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

Oh yes Kamon for sure.
I've got the wand type pro vap cost me $150 at the time. Then I got the first model of Johno's unit, it was $165. And you know what? I've never used either one. Hauling around a battery or stretching out a 100 foot electric cord then winding it all back up just is too much trouble for me. I've been using Apivar and it's been working fine for me. If this unit that you are showcasing was a third it's price I'd get it and would use it, but I do ok with what I'm doing and one day will get out of beekeeping anyway. It looks like a great unit and it will be very nice to have for the many people that will purchase it. I suspect the people selling it will have a hard time keeping up with orders that are going to come in for it. Looks very nice, thanks for showing it off for us all.


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## jtgoral (Mar 24, 2018)

RayMarler said:


> Oh yes Kamon for sure.
> I've got the wand type pro vap cost me $150 at the time. Then I got the first model of Johno's unit, it was $165. And you know what? I've never used either one. Hauling around a battery or stretching out a 100 foot electric cord then winding it all back up just is too much trouble for me. I've been using Apivar and it's been working fine for me. If this unit that you are showcasing was a third it's price I'd get it and would use it, but I do ok with what I'm doing and one day will get out of beekeeping anyway. It looks like a great unit and it will be very nice to have for the many people that will purchase it. I suspect the people selling it will have a hard time keeping up with orders that are going to come in for it. Looks very nice, thanks for showing it off for us all.


Maybe this idea is more usefull: Gas-Vap – keeping Bees Healthy ,portable oxalic acid vaporiser


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## Alto Beek (Jun 26, 2021)

jtgoral said:


> Maybe this idea is more usefull: Gas-Vap – keeping Bees Healthy ,portable oxalic acid vaporiser


I have been using Gas Vap for about a year and it works very well for me. Only a few hives 300 yards from the house, no access to electricity. I chose it because I did not need a battery and all the other gear, light weight and simple to use


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

jtgoral...
Now that I could manage. 
Thanks for the link. 
I'll have to research and see about the gas cartridge it takes.
And then contact them about the unit as I'm in the USA.


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## fatoz (Aug 29, 2016)

Here is a better version of it. Their website seems to down but you can find their email address and phone number in the comments.


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## MJC417 (Jul 26, 2008)

Kamon A. Reynolds said:


> Thankfully there are still great cost effective units out there that are plenty fast for the smaller beekeepers. Who knows what the future will bring.


Hopefully more reasonably priced units will come out soon. The Instant Vap was a doable $360.00 shipped to the US. Now that Lorobbees cut a deal they bumped it up to $500.00. Or we can wait for the Chinese knockoff.


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## sheneron (May 6, 2020)

Yeah the original price was doable. The middle man cut is really steep and unnecessary from a customer standpoint. However it looks great. 

Provap also is releasing a battery version. Future is looking good as we get more vendors making these. Hopefully this competition drives prices down.


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## Alto Beek (Jun 26, 2021)

RayMarler said:


> jtgoral...
> Now that I could manage.
> Thanks for the link.
> I'll have to research and see about the gas cartridge it takes.
> And then contact them about the unit as I'm in the USA.


hi there - I'm in the US too. There was no problem shipping from UK when I ordered it. i ordered the gas vap without the gas cylinder and bought butane in wally world/also amazon. Only minor difficulty was finding a torch with the correct size nozzle ( i think 20 mm) to fit on the gas vap. I am using this which i found on amazon (of course) -
*Phoenix Heavy Duty Micro Blow Torch Flame Forte-Torch for Soldering- Plumbing- Big Refillable Butane Torch- Jewelry-Torch for Home and Kitchen-Adjustable Flame-Security Lock (Gray) … (Yellow) *


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## Rob @ Lorobbees (6 mo ago)

Hey everyone, I wanted to share some info with the group about these units, their price and such.

These units are pricey, Their are no two ways to cut it, we worked them down to as low as we could get them and things still make sense. Sadly as far as the price goes our taxes and import tariffs are extremely high to bring anything into the USA. We also will be doing all warranty work if needed in our shop within the USA to limit potential downtime compared to before when a unit would have to go back overseas for work as we are very versed with oxalic acid vaporizers and their operation. I believe these units are extremely well built and worth every dollar, i am very picky with tools. The reason that i do not sell battery's is because i see no point in selling a product that you can get at a local store and marking it up when most people already have them at their house and it would be no expense for them minus the unit. We are very well known for having USA built oxalic acid vaporizers that are as rugged as they come. The other part of our units is our service, every customer has my direct number so if they have any questions they can have them resolved right away and they can feel confident with their treatments. This was a huge step for our company to risk importing a unit as we are known as a USA manufacturing outfit, i sat on the decision for several week, had tons of several hour phone calls and a lot of physical testing before i was ready to be their only supplier. At the time when i was contacted i was in production of a battery unit, and then i heard the capabilities of this unit i was not even close to the mark. This unit had an incredible plunger system, 4-5x the treatments per battery and 20 second treatment times. All of that and it was over engineered so far that to do anything close you would basically have to copy this engineers work. He has spent months and months testing and refining it is incredible, he wants what best for the beekeepers as do i. That being said overheating oxalic acid without knowing the temperature using a torch will cause the creation of other off gasses into your hive, if you choose to go that route, please be mindful. If the battery unit isn't for you we do have our other models that i will not be changing, i like their price point ($260 &$280 on sale currently, i have ran the sale for 2 months now and honestly may make that the new price for our Lorobbees units.) and how effective they are, the only downside is the power cord with our inhouse units that we are known for. 


I would love to answer any and all questions you have about the unit or how we operate as a small 3 personal family owned and operated business in Maryland. 
We currently have an estimated 4-5 week lead time, I Hope that that in reality is 3 weeks but i do not like to get everyone's hopes up just incase.
-Rob


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## MJC417 (Jul 26, 2008)

Rob @ Lorobbees said:


> Hey everyone, I wanted to share some info with the group about these units, their price and such.
> 
> These units are pricey, Their are no two ways to cut it, we worked them down to as low as we could get them and things still make sense.


I understand your sugar coating the price. I dont care what you charge, you could probably mark it up to $800 and Im sure you'll have plenty of sales. But Janos offers this unit all over the world for $280. In fact, he offered it on beesource for 299.00 plus shipping. All of the sudden the only place its $500.00 is in America. To me it's just taking advantage of the American Beekeeper. 


InstantVap vaporizer said:


> Hello Cobbler!
> 
> I am shipping to US as well, I have shipped some already. I will ship one next week too. If you type in this, you will see the prices in USD, as well as the shipping when you set your address:
> 
> ...


If Janos wanted what was best for beekeepers, he would keep selling direct.


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## Amibusiness (Oct 3, 2016)

The price is not too bad. At the price Janos is selling them he cannot afford to have any warranty issues to repair. For one unit to US $120 shipping round trip would finish off his profits. As the manufacturer he can take a gamble on his own workmanship. As an importer, lorrob has to make sure he is charging enough to cover warranty on not his workmanship, so there is more risk for him.
And how much do other treatments cost per colony? I am not trying to be annoying with that question, I have little experience there....
Convenience costs money....


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## sheneron (May 6, 2020)

Amibusiness said:


> The price is not too bad. At the price Janos is selling them he cannot afford to have any warranty issues to repair. For one unit to US $120 shipping round trip would finish off his profits. As the manufacturer he can take a gamble on his own workmanship. As an importer, lorrob has to make sure he is charging enough to cover warranty on not his workmanship, so there is more risk for him.
> And how much do other treatments cost per colony? I am not trying to be annoying with that question, I have little experience there....
> Convenience costs money....


The price is not bad in general. It is expensive, but a regular provap cost like 500 bucks and this is nicer than a regular provap. Really, the product looks very nice.

The price is bad compared to what it was like a week ago. From a USA consumer standpoint, a week ago you could go to a webpage and order the device for $325-$360 shipped (depending if you order with others). Today, you can go to a (different) website and order the device for $500 shipped.

The only difference is a middle man was inserted into the process. Sure, there is some value provided in that you now get a limited 1 year warranty. But, from what I have seen of the product, I would not choose to pay >= $140 for a limited 1 year warranty.

From their business perspective, I understand the pricing and what not, but from a consumer standpoint, the simple fact of the matter is, virtually nothing has changed except we now order off a different website for $140 more than it was.


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## COAL REAPER (Jun 24, 2014)

RayMarler said:


> Oh yes Kamon for sure.
> I've got the wand type pro vap cost me $150 at the time. Then I got the first model of Johno's unit, it was $165. And you know what? I've never used either one. Hauling around a battery or stretching out a 100 foot electric cord then winding it all back up just is too much trouble for me. I've been using Apivar and it's been working fine for me. If this unit that you are showcasing was a third it's price I'd get it and would use it, but I do ok with what I'm doing and one day will get out of beekeeping anyway. It looks like a great unit and it will be very nice to have for the many people that will purchase it. I suspect the people selling it will have a hard time keeping up with orders that are going to come in for it. Looks very nice, thanks for showing it off for us all.


RAy,
i picked up a 250Wh prtable power station to run the johno unit. works fantastic. its basically a battery with an inverter to 115V built in. i forget last fall if i was able to get 40 hives done in one charge or if it was 40 mintues of run time. weighs less than 5 pounds, no extension cord needed. also useful around the house during power outages.


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## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

Coal reaper, what name and model portable power staion did you get, and what sort of price. One also need to bear in mind the cost of a couple of batteries you will need to have.


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## Amibusiness (Oct 3, 2016)

The assumption on Janos' product is you use batteries you already have.
As for price, I don't think Janos could sustain a US market if there were any warrantee issues, which there could be with the electronics. I don't think there will be any issues with the stainless steel.... I think he was selling at a price he could sustain in Europe with much cheaper shipping. If he had any warrantee issues to deal with in US he would have been underselling himself.... And you need to factor in a wire transfer cost of about $50 or a 5% PayPal fee. So for one unit you are looking at a $118 difference and markups are usually 50-100%.....


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## COAL REAPER (Jun 24, 2014)

johno said:


> Coal reaper, what name and model portable power staion did you get, and what sort of price. One also need to bear in mind the cost of a couple of batteries you will need to have.


i will send you a PM. i didnt mean to hijack here!


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## Live Oak (Oct 11, 2008)

Looks like a nice OAV vaporizer unit. Love the adjustable OA charge capsule. All stainless steel is also a big plus. Where the train wreck occurs for me is the batteries. A 2 pack of the DeWalt 20 volt Max 10 amp hour batteries costs about $325 on Amazon. Total cost would be around $820. If I didn't already have a ProVap EZ 110, I might consider buying one but I have not had very good luck with these rechargeable batteries over time. They just don't last. I can see if you already own several rechargeable batteries that you are already using on a regular basis for other tasks. This would make sense. I love the idea of NO cords or generators to drag around but the rechargeable batteries are the sticking point with me.


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## b2bnz (Apr 5, 2009)

RayMarler said:


> jtgoral...
> Now that I could manage.
> Thanks for the link.
> I'll have to research and see about the gas cartridge it takes.
> And then contact them about the unit as I'm in the USA.


I made my own out of some scrap 19 mm copper pipe, a piece of 5 mm copper pipe and a metal strap to hold the blow torch. Works a treat. Priceless!


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## P. Greaney (Apr 23, 2014)

Stumbled upon this youtube video 
*Homemade oxalic acid vaporizer for mite treatment*




I was intrigued by its simplicity and low cost for the component parts. Maybe ten to fifteen dollars or so. It works quite well.


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## William Bagwell (Sep 4, 2019)

Live Oak said:


> I can see if you already own several rechargeable batteries that you are already using on a regular basis for other tasks. This would make sense.


Battery adapters exist. Most modern _flat _topped tool batteries have an adapter available in either direction to other brands. Ryobi and others with a stem can not be used with other brands, can sometimes take a flat top. Worth looking into what is available for your existing kit. Then if a bargain comes along can grab it with out having to buy extra batteries and a charger. Might even sell the orphan battery for more than the adapter...


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## Snarge (May 4, 2015)

I hope I’m not hijacking this thread but a few months ago I posted that The BOS (Butane Oxalic Sublimator) had been created and was in its testing phases.

It is assembled using a CNC machine in Cleveland, Tn by CA Technologies.

We have just sold the first 7 to my local mentees. It costs $130 and includes 4 silicone caps, a cleaning tool, a wire brush and the BOS which attaches to a butane torch.

It takes 30 seconds to sublimate 2 grams of oxalic acid and only weighs one pound!

I still have to shoot a YT video and then will post it here.

My email, if anyone is interested, is :
[email protected]


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## JustBees (Sep 7, 2021)

Playing with fire in dry states seems problematic.


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## e-spice (Sep 21, 2013)

Helenjohnsen said:


> I hope I’m not hijacking this thread but a few months ago I posted that The BOS (Butane Oxalic Sublimator) had been created and was in its testing phases.
> 
> It is assembled using a CNC machine in Cleveland, Tn by CA Technologies.
> 
> ...


I'm interested in seeing the video.


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## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

Well when I started making vaporizers it was to make something available to beekeepers without costing an arm and a leg, So the Easy Vap was made available for about $150 which has increased due to increased cost of materials to $160. Of course you had to run out a cord to used domestic power or clamp an inverter onto battery terminals and run out a cord from there. Since then it appears that beekeepers have been doing so well that cost is no longer a problem and no longer want to roll out that cord. Well I took a look at that then,and bought a Vattix 300 watt power station from Amazon for $139. I treated my home yard this morning using this Vattix device which weighs little over 5 lbs and treated a total of 31 colonies and stll had 55% of the power stations power left. It takes less than 15 seconds for the Easy Vap or Pallet Vap to vaporize 1 gram of OA and with a full cap which is about 4 grams it take about 55 seconds. This little power station can be quite useful in the home in times of power failure as it can power up to 300 watts with a pure sine wave inverter as well as supplying 12 volts to charge telephones and other small appliances. If you happen to be off grid this unit can be charged from a solar panel or from a vehicles 12 volt plug. I should imagine that the cost of a Dewalt battery and charger would set you back more than the $139 of the power station, but then if money is no object what does it matter.


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## e-spice (Sep 21, 2013)

MJC417 said:


> Hopefully more reasonably priced units will come out soon. The Instant Vap was a doable $360.00 shipped to the US. Now that Lorobbees cut a deal they bumped it up to $500.00. Or we can wait for the Chinese knockoff.


This is an impressive looking device. I agree though, in the US, it seems to have quite a bit of mark up from the European manufacturer.


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## ifixoldhouses (Feb 27, 2019)

johno said:


> Well when I started making vaporizers it was to make something available to beekeepers without costing an arm and a leg, So the Easy Vap was made available for about $150 which has increased due to increased cost of materials to $160. Of course you had to run out a cord to used domestic power or clamp an inverter onto battery terminals and run out a cord from there. Since then it appears that beekeepers have been doing so well that cost is no longer a problem and no longer want to roll out that cord. Well I took a look at that then,and bought a Vattix 300 watt power station from Amazon for $139. I treated my home yard this morning using this Vattix device which weighs little over 5 lbs and treated a total of 31 colonies and stll had 55% of the power stations power left. It takes less than 15 seconds for the Easy Vap or Pallet Vap to vaporize 1 gram of OA and with a full cap which is about 4 grams it take about 55 seconds. This little power station can be quite useful in the home in times of power failure as it can power up to 300 watts with a pure sine wave inverter as well as supplying 12 volts to charge telephones and other small appliances. If you happen to be off grid this unit can be charged from a solar panel or from a vehicles 12 volt plug. I should imagine that the cost of a Dewalt battery and charger would set you back more than the $139 of the power station, but then if money is no object what does it matter.


That is all you need, can even pump up a tire with the one I have, or jump start a car.


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

johno said:


> Well when I started making vaporizers it was to make something available to beekeepers without costing an arm and a leg, So the Easy Vap was made available for about $150 which has increased due to increased cost of materials to $160. Of course you had to run out a cord to used domestic power or clamp an inverter onto battery terminals and run out a cord from there. Since then it appears that beekeepers have been doing so well that cost is no longer a problem and no longer want to roll out that cord. Well I took a look at that then,and bought a Vattix 300 watt power station from Amazon for $139. I treated my home yard this morning using this Vattix device which weighs little over 5 lbs and treated a total of 31 colonies and stll had 55% of the power stations power left. It takes less than 15 seconds for the Easy Vap or Pallet Vap to vaporize 1 gram of OA and with a full cap which is about 4 grams it take about 55 seconds. This little power station can be quite useful in the home in times of power failure as it can power up to 300 watts with a pure sine wave inverter as well as supplying 12 volts to charge telephones and other small appliances. If you happen to be off grid this unit can be charged from a solar panel or from a vehicles 12 volt plug. I should imagine that the cost of a Dewalt battery and charger would set you back more than the $139 of the power station, but then if money is no object what does it matter.


As someone that has spent a lifetime on construction sites, rolling out a cord is no big deal. Now, if someone comes up with a vaporizer that I can use without getting out of my air conditioned cab, I'm in!  

Alex


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## aran (May 20, 2015)

just ordered one. Anything that makes treatment more efficient and easier is worth it to me. Im only at 100 hives or so but still treating is a long process on my own. This added to my other mite killing weapons should speed things up nicely


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## e-spice (Sep 21, 2013)

aran said:


> just ordered one. Anything that makes treatment more efficient and easier is worth it to me. Im only at 100 hives or so but still treating is a long process on my own. This added to my other mite killing weapons should speed things up nicely





AHudd said:


> As someone that has spent a lifetime on construction sites, rolling out a cord is no big deal. Now, if someone comes up with a vaporizer that I can use without getting out of my air conditioned cab, I'm in!
> 
> Alex


With the huge overhead distributors are adding to these type of devices, when you buy one, the distributor should come to your apiary to vaporize your hives for you.  That being said I will probably end up buying one too at some point.


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## e-spice (Sep 21, 2013)

P. Greaney said:


> Stumbled upon this youtube video
> *Homemade oxalic acid vaporizer for mite treatment*
> 
> 
> ...


I would be a little concerned about what would happen if the nozzle clogged up. That does occasionally happen. With the ProVap style vaporizers it can blow the top off to relieve pressure, not sure what would happen with the pipe since the cap is a threaded connection. Might be kinda dangerous.


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## aran (May 20, 2015)

something for me that appeals bout this battery powered unit is it removes one of the barriers to my treating more frequently...my own laziness. For my outyards in spring when im doing 5 treatments 4 days apart with OAV ( i always start March 1) it means loading up a bloody sled with extension cords, the marine battery, the OA bag, the vaporizer, and having to drag this through often times thigh deep snow...its exhausting and demoralizing frankly lol.
This though i can walk out with snow shoes on carrying just the OA bag and the vaporizer with battery attached. Will be much quicker and easier for me for certain.
Thankfully the state inspector has found no mites in any of my yards the last 3 years with my current treatment regime but without a doubt this will make it easier


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## Kamon A. Reynolds (Apr 15, 2012)

aran said:


> something for me that appeals bout this battery powered unit is it removes one of the barriers to my treating more frequently...my own laziness. For my outyards in spring when im doing 5 treatments 4 days apart with OAV ( i always start March 1) it means loading up a bloody sled with extension cords, the marine battery, the OA bag, the vaporizer, and having to drag this through often times thigh deep snow...its exhausting and demoralizing frankly lol.
> This though i can walk out with snow shoes on carrying just the OA bag and the vaporizer with battery attached. Will be much quicker and easier for me for certain.
> Thankfully the state inspector has found no mites in any of my yards the last 3 years with my current treatment regime but without a doubt this will make it easier



- That is the way I look at it too Aran.
Treating 300+ hives with a measuring spoon, multiple removable caps, OA bag, 2 cords, an inverter, hooking it up to the truck battery, and two band vaporizers is not what I like to do for fun. 500 bucks for making that work way better and faster is a no brainer at this scale. Granted, I already had plenty of batteries.

Thankfully, as so many have graciously shown above, there are dozens of "better" ways to do this for all types of beekeepers.


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## aran (May 20, 2015)

Kamon A. Reynolds said:


> - That is the way I look at it too Aran.
> Treating 300+ hives with a measuring spoon, multiple removable caps, OA bag, 2 cords, an inverter, hooking it up to the truck battery, and two band vaporizers is not what I like to do for fun. 500 bucks for making that work way better and faster is a no brainer at this scale. Granted, I already had plenty of batteries.
> 
> Thankfully, as so many have graciously shown above, there are dozens of "better" ways to do this for all types of beekeepers.


im only at 104 hives i think currently and ill likely cull back the weak queens to maybe 95-100 hives for winter. Still doing the treatments is a PITA and this will make it easier. $500 is easily worth it to me. I would love 300+hives like you mate but im married to a puerto rican woman and if i expand my hive numbers any further im relatively sure i wont survive to tell you all about how many new hives i have.


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## Kamon A. Reynolds (Apr 15, 2012)

aran said:


> im only at 104 hives i think currently and ill likely cull back the weak queens to maybe 95-100 hives for winter. Still doing the treatments is a PITA and this will make it easier. $500 is easily worth it to me. I would love 300+hives like you mate but im married to a puerto rican woman and if i expand my hive numbers any further im relatively sure i wont survive to tell you all about how many new hives i have.


They all have a line drawn somewhere and it's a wise man who doesn't cross it!


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## sheneron (May 6, 2020)

Yeah 500 bucks if you are a sideliner or commercial operator is a no brainer. That's gotta be a rounding error on the cost of maintaining that many hives. Plus the time savings is probably a positive within a few months.


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## Amibusiness (Oct 3, 2016)

It's not just Sideliners for whom it's a no brainer. If it means 1 more colony overwinters successfully for anyone it is paid off in a few years. Add a couple years if you don't already have the batteries. I know plenty of people who loose colonies every year and don't hesitate to buy $400-1000 worth of bees but balk at a $500 tool. Makes no sense. Now for those really working on the cheap and not planning to sell any bee products, I can understand your hesitancy. For one time fall use it would be fine to own this tool cooperatively. If you are relying on oa when capped brood is present and therefore treating every 3 days I don't think a coop will work easily.
For a hobbiest who sells a bit of honey, if treating means you get a 10% increase in yield, you will pay for the tool quickly. If you have 2 colonies and often replace, and you can treat easily and effectively you will save heartache and cash and will also soon pay for the tool. In this game, where costs of everything keep going up, I don't see the complaint of the cost of this vaporizer. If you are a cheapskate like Gregb, you will find ways to be cheap. This tool is likely not for you. For all others, you have already spent more than that on bees, etc. Consider selling a couple colonies to fund your beekeeping habit. As I see it, there are 3 types of beekeepers: those who buy bees, those who sell bees, and those who have kept their handful of colonies without buying replacements. This vaporizer is intended to help with the transition from the first type to one of the other types. If used successfully and the transition happens it will have been money well spent.


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## William Bagwell (Sep 4, 2019)

Amibusiness said:


> I know plenty of people who loose colonies every year and don't hesitate to buy $400-1000 worth of bees but balk at a $500 tool.


My treatment 'tool' of choice is currently around $300*, so half way between johno's and the one discussed here. Drove out of state** to buy it before I even had _any _bees. Only had a single NUC on order at the time and had absolutely no idea I would be buying out another beekeeper four months later. Oh, and my wife rode with me  Both times! Beautiful cold crisp drive to get the tool, miserably hot day when we pick up the five hives. Have yet to spend a $1,000 on bees. Plead the fifth on equipment, tools, supplies, etc

*Used, when you can find one. Supply chain issues...
**Technically bought it in my home state but briefly drove in two others to get there.


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## MJC417 (Jul 26, 2008)

Judging from previous posts it seems the Instant Vap is clearly underpriced. Im sure it's a fine product and could be priced closer to 8 or 9 hundred. What I dont understand is why its only 300 in Canada. There is need for fast, less expensive cordless vaporizers and I would think we will see them in the near future.


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## e-spice (Sep 21, 2013)

sheneron said:


> Yeah 500 bucks if you are a sideliner or commercial operator is a no brainer. That's gotta be a rounding error on the cost of maintaining that many hives. Plus the time savings is probably a positive within a few months.





Amibusiness said:


> It's not just Sideliners for whom it's a no brainer. If it means 1 more colony overwinters successfully for anyone it is paid off in a few years. Add a couple years if you don't already have the batteries. I know plenty of people who loose colonies every year and don't hesitate to buy $400-1000 worth of bees but balk at a $500 tool. Makes no sense. Now for those really working on the cheap and not planning to sell any bee products, I can understand your hesitancy. For one time fall use it would be fine to own this tool cooperatively. If you are relying on oa when capped brood is present and therefore treating every 3 days I don't think a coop will work easily.
> For a hobbiest who sells a bit of honey, if treating means you get a 10% increase in yield, you will pay for the tool quickly. If you have 2 colonies and often replace, and you can treat easily and effectively you will save heartache and cash and will also soon pay for the tool. In this game, where costs of everything keep going up, I don't see the complaint of the cost of this vaporizer. If you are a cheapskate like Gregb, you will find ways to be cheap. This tool is likely not for you. For all others, you have already spent more than that on bees, etc. Consider selling a couple colonies to fund your beekeeping habit. As I see it, there are 3 types of beekeepers: those who buy bees, those who sell bees, and those who have kept their handful of colonies without buying replacements. This vaporizer is intended to help with the transition from the first type to one of the other types. If used successfully and the transition happens it will have been money well spent.


I completely agree with logic behind both of these posts, however, instead of paying $325 - $350 for the vaporizer (what it cost a couple weeks ago) to get an extra colony though winter we now have to pay $500 for the same vaporizer. That is what I have an issue with. That is the result of someone monopolizing the US market for this device.


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## Amibusiness (Oct 3, 2016)

Not sure you followed, espice. Or maybe I didn't follow?
If you spend 500 1x instead of 325 (to use your price for replacement) for 2 years you will already be ahead. For those who cannot keep their bees alive the bees are money spent for current entertainment. For such people it is conceivable that the $500 investment in the future will save cash down the line and make the entertainment value of the bees in the future that much more rewarding. Sure if you don't need to treat or already have a system that works you don't need this. However, I don't think there is a better, cheaper vap available yet. Yes johno and other's plug in style is great if the yard is close to a plug or you don't have compatible batteries or adapters. For many people this device should be on the shopping list before any extractor....


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## e-spice (Sep 21, 2013)

Amibusiness said:


> Not sure you followed, espice. Or maybe I didn't follow?
> If you spend 500 1x instead of 325 (to use your price for replacement) for 2 years you will already be ahead. For those who cannot keep their bees alive the bees are money spent for current entertainment. For such people it is conceivable that the $500 investment in the future will save cash down the line and make the entertainment value of the bees in the future that much more rewarding. Sure if you don't need to treat or already have a system that works you don't need this. However, I don't think there is a better, cheaper vap available yet. Yes johno and other's plug in style is great if the yard is close to a plug or you don't have compatible batteries or adapters. For many people this device should be on the shopping list before any extractor....


Sorry Amibusiness - I edited my last post to hopefully make it clearer.


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## MJC417 (Jul 26, 2008)

Amibusiness said:


> It's not just Sideliners for whom it's a no brainer. If it means 1 more colony overwinters successfully for anyone it is paid off in a few years. Add a couple years if you don't already have the batteries.


In Canada they can keep the name "Instant Vap" because it can instantly save you money. But in the US they should change it to "Add a Couple Years Vap" 🤣


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## Kamon A. Reynolds (Apr 15, 2012)

MJC417 said:


> In Canada they can keep the name "Instant Vap" because it can instantly save you money. But in the US they should change it to "Add a Couple Years Vap" 🤣


I paid 475 for a pro vap before lorob bees, Johno, Instant vap, and several other companies started selling their vaporizers. With cords invertors and stuff $650

If this isn't progress I don't know what is. 

Competition baby! Not a monopoly at all.

If I am Instant vap I am looking at lorob bee selling my vaporizer for 500 and going wow, they have a month and a half lead time and the orders keep piling in.
At that point I would consider raising my prices in other countries.

I hope Janos makes a ton, because I need risk taking guys like him to keep innovating for my bees


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## sheneron (May 6, 2020)

It's not a monopoly, it's an unnecessary middle man that provides virtually no value to American consumers.

I agree that because virtually the only competition is the provap and this is better than the provap, people will pay 500 bucks for this thing. So, the non-USA price could probably be increased.

Hopefully this competition will cause some price wars and provap will drop their price to compete. If you buy a cheap small electric generator (like 100 bucks) the provap is not really inconvenient. If they start selling at reduced cost I think they can compete with this.


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## MJC417 (Jul 26, 2008)

Kamon A. Reynolds said:


> I paid 475 for a pro vap before lorob bees, Johno, Instant vap, and several other companies started selling their vaporizers. With cords invertors and stuff $650
> 
> If this isn't progress I don't know what is.
> 
> ...


That's fine, it's sounds like you've spent a couple grand trying to figure things out. I'm glad there's guys out there like that. With your social media experience you could start crowdfunding and get a GoFundMe account for Janos and others who have ideas for vaporizers.


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## Amibusiness (Oct 3, 2016)

As I said before, it's not an unnecessary middleman. Janos would not be able to afford warrantee issues at his price point, with shipping being so expensive. So he does well to have a US distributor. His only mistake may have been selling for cheap in the US market before he found a distributor. It may be some folks who balk at the price increase would have jumped on a cordless steal at $500 if they did not know they could have gotten it cheaper a few weeks ago. As for needless middlemen, does anybody buy from Mann lake? Or anything besides woodenware from betterbee? For the most part they are distributors of other people's equipment. The manufacturers often do not want the headaches that come with customer service and distributing to individuals. Obviously the distributors need to mark up. Rob is running a small business that deserves a profit, not complaints.
As to kamon spending a grand or 2 to figure it out, how many people spent that on bees before they figured it out?


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## sheneron (May 6, 2020)

Amibusiness said:


> As I said before, it's not an unnecessary middleman. Janos would not be able to afford warrantee issues at his price point, with shipping being so expensive. So he does well to have a US distributor. His only mistake may have been selling for cheap in the US market before he found a distributor. It may be some folks who balk at the price increase would have jumped on a cordless steal at $500 if they did not know they could have gotten it cheaper a few weeks ago. As for needless middlemen, does anybody buy from Mann lake? Or anything besides woodenware from betterbee? For the most part they are distributors of other people's equipment. The manufacturers often do not want the headaches that come with customer service and distributing to individuals. Obviously the distributors need to mark up. Rob is running a small business that deserves a profit, not complaints.
> As to kamon spending a grand or 2 to figure it out, how many people spent that on bees before they figured it out?


Ok... so don't offer a warranty or handle it however he is handling every other case where he ships to a country other than the USA?

As a consumer, I would rather have a choice. Let people buy directly without warranty OR buy through Lorobbees with warranty. Or, let Janos markup the price to USA customers a little bit himself to cover warranty issues. 

The Lorobbees markup over the direct sale is >$140 and literally the only difference from a consumer standpoint is a limited one year warranty. Is that warranty worth a 38% increase in price to the consumer? Do you think that over 1/3 of the Instantvap units will fail from normal use within 1 year?



Amibusiness said:


> Rob is running a small business that deserves a profit, not complaints.


Small businesses don't just "deserve" profit. Seriously? If that's the case we should all open small businesses. Also, just because I may disagree with how this particular product is being offered doesn't mean I think the whole business is bad or anything like that. I don't think we have to agree 100% of every decision a business makes to still support that business overall.


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## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

With Kamons post #49, I would just like to clear up a few facts, after playing around with band heaters I made mention with pics of my first vaporizer in the stickeys under DIY oxalic acid vaporizer dated 10/29/ 2016 on pages12 and 13 with the hope that beekeepers would build their own vaporizers, At that time I also posted with pics in the commercial beekeepers section. I started the thread Band Heater Vaporizer 11/27/2016 with the intensions of helping beekeepers build their own vaporizer and if you look at Oxavaps first offer of the Provap vaporizer you will find that dated at 11/16/ 2016 at which time he was taking orders for those products still to be imported. I only started making them to sell after I was requested to do so by many beekeepers who were unable to build them themselves. So I produced a vaporizer that was cheap, simple and efficient and would claim that this vaporizer is faster and more efficient than any of the band heater vaporizers around. Believe me there are more than 3000 of them out there and I do not hear any complaints. The idea is to keep it simple s----d


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## codonnell (Jul 7, 2020)

RayMarler said:


> Nice unit, over priced, and doesn't even come with the battery. I'm just a hobbyist on limited income so no way I can't afford that one myself. These things need to be priced for someone other than a side liner or commercial beek. The greed and inflation in this country is flabbergasting to me, just plain hard to believe. I guess i was taught this country was something other than what it really is.


I appreciate that professional tools can be expensive, but I can't make the leap with you that economics are always driven by greed and inflation. I believe the cost of materials and construction are significant factors.

Like you, I can't always afford or justify a professional tool, but in those instances where my needs and budget allow, I am happy for the option.

Best,

Chuck


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## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

Actually PID controllers were not cheap probably over $220 each and then China started producing them and you can take your pick from around $10 to $25 depending on your needs, Band heaters available for around $15 apiece and the rest is up to you.


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## aran (May 20, 2015)

I have both the provap and Johnos easy vap and have no complaints about either. But this isnt apples with apples. The provap is bloody expensive also as i recall. This is a gadget that simplifies one of the jobs i particularly dislike in the hobby and im happy to see progress in this regard. As far as a 38% markup is concerned in many retail fields right or wrong thats not considered an outrageous number by any means.

Bottom line is to me it seems a worthwhile investment. If it doesnt to you then dont buy it...not rocket science.


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## Amibusiness (Oct 3, 2016)

Oh boy... I'm about ready to give up but will try again. I understand that you do not need to spend your money on anything for any reason. Your numbers are off though. They are now available I believe for $495 which includes shipping. When they were available direct the cheapest option for a single unit was $378, which includes shipping and PayPal fee. That is about 31% mark up, which is below the norm. (I assume Rob gets them cheaper and shipping is less in bulk so his mark up is probably more but as a consumer those are the numbers for me....)


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## sheneron (May 6, 2020)

Amibusiness said:


> That is about 31% mark up, which is below the norm. (I assume Rob gets them cheaper and shipping is less in bulk so his mark up is probably more but as a consumer those are the numbers for me....)


Change 38 to 31 in my post and it changes nothing that I said...

As a consumer I'd rather have a choice.

I'd personally buy directly without warranty because I don't think 31 out of 100 instantvaps will fail within a year of normal use.


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

If I didn't have such easy access to electricity I would buy one, especially since I have batteries that will work.
I can see what is attractive to the manufacturer of this relationship with the distributor. They have only to prepare one shipment to go out to one recipient and process one payment rather than dozens? of singles.
At the end of the day they can do as they please, subject to the whims of the free market system, just as we that sell honey do.

Alex


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## Kamon A. Reynolds (Apr 15, 2012)

I haven't been on beesource much in the recent past and this posts reminds me why I left for so long, and why most of the commercial beekeepers that use to frequent here left too. It takes petty arguments and derailing just to get decent interaction on B.S. it seems.
Meaningful adult conversation happens sometimes but the percentages of me personally walking away from beesource going wow that was interesting, educational, or exciting is pretty darn low

I posted this thread - video because I get excited over new products that are cutting edge and bring value to beekeeping 
This product does.
Sure you can say "you posted it to get more views" and that is not completely wrong, but of all the places I post beesource doesn't account for half a percent of the 32,000 views this video has.

As a fulltime beekeeper of 33 the industries welfare and future is of paramount importance to me as there is a good chance I will be in it for the rest of my life.

I know I don't feel any smarter for this conversation, the reality of it is none of us have control on the price and by the time you engineered something comparable to this you would have WAY more than 500 in labor and materials. I for one appreciate that I don't HAVE to do that because it would never happen. I don't have the skill, desire, or time.

Lastly, this unit took the vaporizing game up to the next level. I can't wait to see who can top this unit and when it happens I won't be posting the video here!

Thread unfollowed.


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## Snarge (May 4, 2015)

Hi e-spice 
YT ready as of today;


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