# Applejack



## Fivej (Apr 4, 2016)

Does anyone "jack" their hard cider to produce Applejack via the traditional way of freezing in a barrel?
If so, any tips or pointers ? I don't have a barrel, so would have to use a small food grade bucket. One issue I perceive is having a small enough head space to reduce risk of oxygenation, but large enough to accommodate ice and expansion.
Thanks, J


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## Fivej (Apr 4, 2016)

I should add that I will be boosting the abv of the cider as high as I can get, so technically I am jacking apple wine. J


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## Struttinbuck (Mar 8, 2020)

Fivej said:


> I should add that I will be boosting the abv of the cider as high as I can get, so technically I am jacking apple wine. J


Ive heard plenty about it. It's suppose to be one of the absolute best tasting hard ciders but the hangover effect is wicked. So they say just enjoy a glass or two. If you start liking it too much you'll pay for it the next day like severe.
The colder you get it the higher the ABV.
My only concern would be the plastic bucket cracking. But with the alcohol not allowing it to freeze solid straight through you might be good.
There are several Youtubers that make it too. It looks beautiful in a glass.


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## Lee Bussy (May 28, 2021)

I have - and the best advice I can give is to start with good tasting hard cider. Generally, that means not using sugars, applying temperature control during ferment, and not using a nasty yeast like Champagne. I really like the R2 yeast for my best ciders. Avoid a desire to get high alcohol levels in the cider before you jack it.


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## Fivej (Apr 4, 2016)

Thanks guys. It's getting consistently cold here so will be starting soon. J


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## Struttinbuck (Mar 8, 2020)

Fivej said:


> Thanks guys. It's getting consistently cold here so will be starting soon. J


Youll have to post pics. 
And you got some inspiration cooking.
Ive made lots and lots of corn beer.  Then warmed it up through a warming thingy. LOL Comes out crystal clear somehow.


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## SuiGeneris (Feb 13, 2018)

I'm late to the party, but may have some insights. We do a batch like this every year, although I use my deep-freeze instead of waiting for a cold enough day.

As @LBussy said, the most important thing is starting with good cider. Keep in mind that everything will be concentrated afterwards - the alcohol, any residual sugar, things that taste good, things that taste bad, and anything that may give you a headache. If you're making your own cider I'd recommend making the cleanest, driest cider your can. You can use sugar or honey to increase the alcohol content (this will increase your post-freezing yields), but don't push the ABV so high that you start to form off-flavours. I typically aim for 8% ABV. Do not add any acid blend or tannins (you can make those adjustments after freezing). Don't stabilize with sulphates or sorbate. Clear the cider as best you can - I usually pre-clear by treating the cider with pectic enzyme for 12 hours before adding the yeast, and then post-clear just before freezing by cold-crashing along with sparkaloid or gelatin. Ferment as best you can, using a good pitch of yeast and a bit of yeast nutrient. If you have the capability, temperature control during fermentation can help a lot. I generally start my ferments at 16C (61F) and ramp up to 20C (68F) over the first three days, then hold at 20C until fermentation is complete. This limits fusel alcohol production (headaches and solvent notes), which really get concentrated by this process. Nottingham is a great yeast for this kind of cider.

If using commercial cider, try to find one that is sulphate-free and minimally sweetened or unsweetened. I'm guessing you'd want to avoid flavoured ciders as well, but truth be told, I've only ever done this with homebrew.

To freeze, I transfer to 4L (~1 gallon) plastic jugs, but a bucket should work fine as well. For freezing, headspace isn't a huge issue as the cold temperature inhibits oxidation, but minimizing headspace isn't going to hurt either. I freeze mine in the freezer, waiting for it to get to a slushie-like consistency. I then uncap the bottles and invert them over a collection container. Over 30-45 minutes the liquid will make its way past the ice and drip into the container. If you do it right, the leftover ice will be almost pure water, and will lack colour of flavour if you let it thaw and then drink some. I usually do 2 or 3 freezing cycles, until minimal ice forms. This gets the ABV up as high as possible - which in my freezer (-18C-ish) gets you to 25-30% ABV.

After freezing you can make some adjustments. If its overly sweet, a small amount of acid blend can be added to counter the sweetness - this also brings out more of the apple flavour. Wine tannin can also be added, which can build mouthfeel - that said, I've never needed to do this with jack as the apple tannins are concentrated by the freezing process as well. If its overly dry (which is unlikely, but could happen), honey or simple syrup can be added. Jack tends to be quite "rough" and harsh when its first made. Starting with a good cider helps limit that a lot - as does aging it for a few months (to a few years) after freezing. I age mine in half-sized wine bottles, corked with synthetic cork to minimize air exchange.

Bryan


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## Fivej (Apr 4, 2016)

Thanks for the detailed instructions Bryan. I have missed your scientific input in the other forums. What you have advised is generally what I plan on doing. Unfortunately a cider mill that I was going to use is sold out, so I will have to hit the store and see what they have.
I did have a gallon of cider and it started to ferment so instead of letting that go to waste, I started it with 3 pounds of honey and Lavin 118. Potential ABV 15% I may "jack" that with pure spirits if I can't find organic cider. I need to buy more cider next year when it's in season.


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## BadBeeKeeper (Jan 24, 2015)

SuiGeneris said:


> If you have the capability, temperature control during fermentation can help a lot. I generally start my ferments at 16C (61F) and ramp up to 20C (68F) over the first three days, then hold at 20C until fermentation is complete. This limits fusel alcohol production (headaches and solvent notes), which really get concentrated by this process. Nottingham is a great yeast for this kind of cider.


This is why applejack has a reputation for hangovers. During a 'normal' distillation, the 'bad' alcohols are fracked off by careful temperature control (different vaporization temps for different alcohols), but concentrating by freezing leaves the bad in with the good. The bad ones can do nasty things to you, which is why this sort of thing is illegal in the US (as is unlicensed regular distillation). Big Brother don't want you blinding or killing yourself (or someone else).


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## Lee Bussy (May 28, 2021)

The "you'll go blind" thing has been debunked except for the most ridiculous stretches of credulity. Such claims are no better and no more accurate than the black and white films about going insane from smoking pot. If you drink until you have consumed X amount of ethanol, you will have consumed the same profile of good and bad alcohol in exactly the same ratios and you will eventually stop because you've passed out. The amount of methanol is not any higher in that case than it would be if you had not consumed the distilled version of the cider.

What is important here that you mentioned is the reputation for hangovers. That's not because of the "you'll go blind" methanol constituent, but the fusel alcohols created when a guy doesn't listen to advice like "make good cider" and uses a ton of sugar, champagne yeast, and higher temps in an effort to boost the alcohol level. If it tastes like crap and gives you a hangover when it's fermented, it will taste like crap and give you the same hangover when it is distilled. Use good yeast, good apple cider, and control the fermentation temps.

It's illegal in the US because of a combination of blue laws and a desire to collect taxes. It has zero to do with going blind.


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## Struttinbuck (Mar 8, 2020)

I believe I know what happened with the old time methyl and ethyl alcohol issues. Because the bad alcohol( poisonous) or heads truly do have a better taste. Yea. for real.
But anyways most of us hobbyists and people with small stills only produce small amounts of alcohol. If we make 1 gallon and leave the heads in and that was the entire run then as long as that 1 gallon is mixed altogether with the entire run you wont get hurt.
Now here is where I think the issue came along and every now and then you still hear stories.
Lets say I get a 200 gallon still.( like during prohibition ) I start running it. The first small percent of your run is going to be pure Methyl alcohol. Depending if your running fruit or grain. Fruit bears much more methyl alcohol than grain. Anyhow if your sitting there letting gallon jars or mason jars fill up and you never proof them( mix them with the rest of the run ) Then those first jars or jugs are going to be pure methyl alcohol. A small percent of a 20 gallon run out of a 200 gallon still. I mean 1 gallon is 5 percent.
It was the big still or big runs of shine that the first few jugs were never proofed that killed people.
Me with my Robo Brew from down Under ( Old Timer ) lol. would never be able to make enough methyl as long as i mix it in .


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## Struttinbuck (Mar 8, 2020)

BadBeeKeeper said:


> This is why applejack has a reputation for hangovers. During a 'normal' distillation, the 'bad' alcohols are fracked off by careful temperature control (different vaporization temps for different alcohols), but concentrating by freezing leaves the bad in with the good. The bad ones can do nasty things to you, which is why this sort of thing is illegal in the US (as is unlicensed regular distillation). Big Brother don't want you blinding or killing yourself (or someone else).


methyl is 165 degrees ethyl is 175. And when you first taste the methyl just by dabbing your finger in the stream. It tastes really good.


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## Fivej (Apr 4, 2016)

Don't worry guys. My days of getting hammered are long gone. This will be treated like a sipping brandy. If it was good enough for George Washington, it's good enough for me. J


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## Struttinbuck (Mar 8, 2020)

Fivej said:


> Don't worry guys. My days of getting hammered are long gone. This will be treated like a sipping brandy. If it was good enough for George Washington, it's good enough for me. J


You will love it. I've gotta run a batch now too.


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## Fivej (Apr 4, 2016)

Just updating what I wound up doing. I had some 1 yr old apple wine with a high abv, about 16% that was not very appealing as a wine. I uncapped and poured several bottles in a 1 gallon bucket fermenter and stuck it outside during a cold spell. Average temp probably 15f 
I then drained off the apple jack into bottles and put the ice in a salad spinner and spun out the jack. Idea from Doin' The Most on YouTube. Worked great. You should get about a third of volume by jacking. 
It tastes great if I do say so myself, but friends and family also thought it was a success, so give it a try.
I need more already because of the reduced volume but it's spring, so popping it in the freezer. 
It is also handy if you need to top off a cider, or even a mead if you need to reduce head space after racking. J


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