# Joke is on me. Cut out



## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

I just came back from a potential cut out with no bees.

From the outside I would have sworn they were bees but when I cut the wall open there was a big paper nest that the bees were going into. I don't want to sound stupid but there is no way a honey bee will use a paper nest as a hive right?

Man, I can't get over how they acted like honey bees. How do you guys tell from the outside?


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## djei5 (Apr 24, 2011)

Sounds like Yellow Jackets, colors are close but they have no fuzz! Shiny like a wasp, cause they are a wasp!


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## Solomon Parker (Dec 21, 2002)

Practice practice practice. I'm afraid you may be the butt of some jokes for that one.


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## ncsteeler (Apr 15, 2009)

is it possible that it was honey bees robbing a dead out yellow jacket nest?


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## djei5 (Apr 24, 2011)

ncsteeler said:


> is it possible that it was honey bees robbing a dead out yellow jacket nest?


Robbing what??


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## hilreal (Aug 16, 2005)

Lucky all you got is embarrassed! They Yellow Jackets can not be fun to deal with.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

That's why I thought they were honey bees because they didn't bother us even though I cut out the barn boards and exposed the nest. They didn't even get aggressive when we sprayed. Next time I will bring a camera because I am not too sure they didn't have hair. Also, constant coming and going.


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

Acebird:

How could you not recognize Honeybees if you were that close to them?

What did you spray them with?

I would wonder if they were some other type of bee.


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## hemichuck (Oct 27, 2009)

I went out on a cut out last week and it was up about 12 ft in an overhang. I went out and visually inspected it from the ground and there was plenty of traffic coming and going so I made an appointment to come and remove them in a couple of days.When I arrived the owners maintenance man had taken the gutters loose for me and he was going to show up while we removed the bees.Before he arrived I went up the ladder to check out the situation and as I looked closer I realized that these were pretty small for bees so I set a piece of screen in front of the entrance to slow them down so my 50-something eyes could focus in on them and before I could get a look I got stung in the head 4 times.It didnt take long to realize they were yellow jackets.So I just drove 30 miles and loaded all of my cutout gear to get stung by some yellow jackets! On a brighter note,the maintenance guy showed up and said that he had no intention of going up that ladder and dealing with the yellow jackets so he said "You have the bee jacket and I already have the check made out" so I proceeded to go up the ladder and kill everything in sight. He paid me and said thanks.


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## geebob (Apr 4, 2011)

WLC said:


> I would wonder if they were some other type of bee.


Not in a paper nest, though.


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## frostygoat (Jun 3, 2008)

Yellow jackets and bees are hard to confuse. Get yourself a magnifying glass if you can't see them...


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## zippelk (Sep 1, 2010)

ouch. maybe bald-faced hornets? not easy to confuse with a honeybee, but lots of paper nests around here, whereas yellow jackets are usually underground.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

WLC said:


> What did you spray them with?
> 
> I would wonder if they were some other type of bee.


I can't focus very well anymore on something that is moving. It was a general can of wasp, hornet spray which I guess is 90% kerosene or some petroleum of some sort.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

So you sprayed dangerous "chemicals" into the environment to kill innocent wildlife?? Wow, talk about hypocritical.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

No the owner did.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

Yeah, and I supposed you just stood there and didnt say anything either.

I am supprised you didnt through your body on the nest and take one for the hornets.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

zippelk said:


> ouch. maybe bald-faced hornets? not easy to confuse with a honeybee, but lots of paper nests around here, whereas yellow jackets are usually underground.


Not bald-faced hornets. The nest is a perfect example but these insects look exactly like a honey bee in appearance and they were foraging on clover. They did not look like yellow jackets either. Not yellow more orangish brown.

I am not totally convinced they were not honey bees. I just can't explain why they would go into a paper hive.


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## HONEYDEW (Mar 9, 2007)

Nabber86 said:


> So you sprayed dangerous "chemicals" into the environment to kill innocent wildlife?? Wow, talk about hypocritical.


 That's not hypocritical, it's called being realistic, Unless you are joking.... Do you think we shouldn't spray to kill Innocent mosquitoes that spread dissease..:scratch:


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

Acebird, I take it that you went to do a cutout without a bee vac.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

I went to look at a potential cut out for a friend. He has a huge barn that used to be a bean factory and it has had honey bees in it many times before. When I saw the bees and where they were going it was easy to just cut two boards and see what was behind it and if the comb would be accessible. I was shocked when I saw the wasp nest because nun of us got stung and I stood on a ladder right over the place they were entering while I cut the boards with a power saw.
I have a new shop vac that I can make into a bee vac if need be. I didn't have anything with me because I did not intend on getting the bees that night. It was too late and rain in the forecast. I also don't have enough equipment for another hive so I was going to involve another friend who lost all his bees this winter and won't pay for them. He keeps nothing but swarms.

Next time I will definitely have a camera. I will have to write a book if I can document honey bees in a paper nest.:scratch:


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## Dave360 (Apr 12, 2010)

acebird you should have had a beekeeper check them out most beekeepers have seen lots of honey bees and can recognize them at some distance LOL 

Dave


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Next time I get a call I will let you know and you can stroll up here and check them out.


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## wcubed (Aug 24, 2008)

Acebird:
I should let you take all the abuse, but I'll give you an out. My guess is that what you found was a cavity being checked out by honey bee nest scouts. In my beginner years, I opened two different structures to find no defensive bees. Twice was enough to learn how to avoid a third time. Bees coming and going does not mean they live there. During the nest site selection process scouts involved in the 'voting' process are both cycling back to home base and defending that specific site. Sometimes there can be 200 bees in and out in a minute.

The trick is to verify incoming forage before you plug in your saw. A single bee with a pollen load is not good enough. Sometimes an incoming pollen forager is recruited as a nest scout before she dumps her load. What you want to see is a stream incoming with pollen. Then, you can plug in your saw.

Walt


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

The *really big question* is.....did they buzz with a southern accent and were there any empty canadian bacon wrappers laying around in the cavity??????:banana:

Ed


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

wcubed said:


> Acebird:
> I should let you take all the abuse, Walt


Don't worry, I can handle it. 
We had to plug in the saw anyway because it was the only way to remove what was there.

If your hypothesis is correct then I missed my second chance of putting up a swarm box to lure them into a nice home. The problem is the entrance was in an outdoor shower that the boys use and one guy was a little more gun shy about taking a shower with the bees then the other. The swarm trap would have taken time and your hypothesis would have had to be correct to work.

There appeared to be two guard bees at the entrance of the paper nest at all times.

The bottom line is you are stating that it is possible for a honey bee to visit an abandoned wasp nest.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Intheswamp said:


> The *really big question* is.....did they buzz with a southern accent and were there any empty canadian bacon wrappers laying around in the cavity??????:banana:
> 
> Ed


:s:s this is over my head.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Acebird said:


> :s:s this is over my head.


Sorry, here's a link that will explain it....
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?258105-Do-honeybees-eat-canadian-bacon-Seriously!

Ed


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## wcubed (Aug 24, 2008)

Should have mentioned another clue to differentiation between nest scouts and residents is bees getting into the interior of the residence. The nest scouts, in evaluation of the cavity will check any openings in the cavity. They often get into the interior of a residence by devious routes - like a loose electrical receptacal. They run down every nook and cranny of the cavity perimeter. Bees in the interior is the clincher of the "hypothesis." After the swarm moves in and gets to know the way in and out, penetration of the interior subsides in a day or two. The scouts would naturally check out the hornets nest, It's in the potential nest cavity.
Oops, reread your post. Outdoor shower. Most of the above is still valid.
Walt


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

I just got a report back from the owner:
He said there was a comb structure inside the nest about the size of a base ball with "maggots" (his words) inside. No sign of bees. It all has been removed and boarded back up. Next time he calls I will have a camera. I am sure this will happen again. My question to the forum is how small a hive is worth saving? There couldn't have been more than 200 bees in that nest. How small a nuc can make it through the winter up here? It is already more than half way through July.


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## wcubed (Aug 24, 2008)

Now, we are back to the question of what kind of "bee" was involved? If not honey bees, that makes the follow-up question somewhat irrelevant.
Sorry about the diversion.
Walt Wrong


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## Solomon Parker (Dec 21, 2002)

If they weren't honeybees, then they weren't _bees._ Yellowjackets, wasps, and hornets are not bees. They are wasps and hornets. It's a fundamental categorical difference. It's like koalas and kodiaks. One of these things is not a bear.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

http://www.everythingabout.net/articles/biology/animals/arthropods/insects/bees/

I don't think it is as cut and dried as you think. There are a lot of bees besides a honeybee.


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## Solomon Parker (Dec 21, 2002)

Perhaps you should have looked it up _before_ you did the cutout on the wasps.


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## iwlf (Mar 25, 2012)

Maybe they were a strain of the new "LHB" (Latin Honey Bee) and built themselves an adobe hive!


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