# The other denizens of a TBH...



## Marysia2 (May 23, 2014)

I have noticed a lot of inhabitants of my top bar hives other than the bees. Some not so nice, like SHB, but there are others I'm not so sure about.

A lot of spiders of all types, big and small, furry or spindly (lots and lots of Daddy-Long-Legs, for example). I don't see webs or maybe a small one in the corner of the hive lid, which usually entraps earwigs - I never see bees in them. And lots of earwigs...what the heck are they doing hanging around? They are on the top of the bars, in corners of the lid, but not in the bee area itself. Ants were a problem for awhile in one hive, but I put out a Borax and sugar mix in an inverted container around the legs of the hive, and within a week they were mostly gone. Some tiny, tiny, tiny ones still wandering around occasionally.

There was one big black furry spider, with long pipe-cleaner legs, (I named him Ned) that started living in one hive at the end of June. He usually scuttled away when I moved a bar (in the non-bee area) or if I caught him on the top bars. We kind of tolerated each other until last month when I opened the top lid and he turned around and CONFRONTED me. I mean, he made a stance and STARED at me with his bazillion eyes or whatever they have. That crossed a line so Furry Spider had to go.

It seems easier to see the entire ecosystem of a colony with a top bar hive. I don't really see all this in the one Lang I have. Are there beneficial non-bee members of a bee colony? I know about the bad ones like wax moths and SBH and varroa; no one every talks about encouraging other critters that might be advantageous to a hive (except those pseudo-scorpions that may eat varroa...). Any thoughts?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

What makes you think wax moths are bad? They are probably one of the leading protections against rampant AFB...

There are 170 mites that live on Apis mellifera. I don't know of any research on their positive aspects, but only three have been classified as problems. When I've taken bees out of trees, the detritus at the bottom is full of life. Centipedes, ants, roaches, beetles, wax moths, spiders... and those are the things I can see... Most of the mites require a magnifying glass at least. Then there are the 8,000 microorganisms...

http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/ar/archive/aug98/bees0898.htm?pf=1


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## gezellig (Jun 11, 2014)

Marysia2, I saw a guy once that built his TBH with a "removable" bottom. He filled the bottom with saw dust, leaves, tree rot, etc...just a smorgasborg of what you would find in a hollow tree below the bees. He did this to encourage all those critters you were discussing. An Ecofloor to his hives. I'm not condoning or discouraging it, but it worked for him. And as my 86year old mentor says, "if it works for you, that's what I'd do".


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## Marysia2 (May 23, 2014)

Michael Bush said:


> What makes you think wax moths are bad? They are probably one of the leading protections against rampant AFB...


Ha, because the Bee Bibles tell me so! Seriously, I do understand that if wax moths are kept under control by the bees, they are beneficial.

I don't treat (not proselytizing here, just as info) so I think I see a more "normal" hive environment than the usually sterile treated hive. If you treat for varroa, I believe it also kills the tiny pseudo-scorpions that prey on the mites. 

I grew up in the 60's and 70's when the average humanoid finally became aware of the delicate balance needed for an ecosystem to thrive. Consequently, I tend toward letting things balance themselves out with minimal interference. However, I don't want to stymie something I should be encouraging, and vice versa. I do feel bad about killing Ned the Furry Legged spider. The girls are probably still gossiping about it: "Did you hear what happened to Ned...???"


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I grew up in the 60's and 70's when the average humanoid finally became aware of the delicate balance needed for an ecosystem to thrive.

I don't think the average humanoid has a clue yet... at least the evidence on here would indicate they don't... But at least some of them do.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

I bet you find most of these critters on top of the topbars where the bees can't patrol, it's the same in a lang if you use an innercover.


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## shannonswyatt (May 7, 2012)

This summer I noticed what looked like pseudo-scorpions several times. I had never heard of them, but I saw a video on them last spring. When I was doing an inspection I noticed one. Then a few weeks later I noticed one on another hive. I should have take a photo to verify. They were very small, smaller than a SHB, but clearly they looked like a small scorpion in shape.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

And the pseudo-scorpions eat Varroa...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qw3eVjQPXQ
http://www.resistantbees.com/mikro_e.html


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## Marysia2 (May 23, 2014)

Michael Bush said:


> And the pseudo-scorpions eat Varroa...


Thanks for those video URL's!  Energetic little beasties, aren't they (the scorpions)?!

One of the few TBH beeks I know locally first told me about the pseudo-scorpions eating Varroa. When she finds one in her house or outside she will carry it to her hive and release it. Obviously, they can't eat all the Varroa, but every little bit helps. I was thrilled to see one on the slide-out bottom panel of my TBH once.


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## shannonswyatt (May 7, 2012)

To bad they don't eat SHB!


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## msscha (Jan 4, 2014)

I am so glad you asked this question! My TBH has an eco floor, and also has all sorts of critters living in it. For months, I kept thinking I was just going to tear the eco floor down and screw in a flat bottom board and be done with it. Because that was such a scary prospect, I never did it. And now, I've found myself wondering at the impulse since the hive (my only one) is doing just fine. Maybe better than fine if a dozen drones returning home on Sunday evening is a sign of hive health. I'm feeling a wee bit more confident now, so thinking that I will let this hive be, since the bees are doing okay, rather than tearing up what they've allowed/modified for their own use.

I haven't seen the pseudo-scorpions, but I haven't looked, either. I do swipe the spider web right next to the hive. And your experience with the big spider? Yea -- had one of those suckers in the garage workshop once. I swear that thing could talk. We had a nice conversation (in English) during which I promised not to kill it if it promised to be out of sight when I returned. So far, so good!


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

Great thread. And there is a lot more sign of intelligent life on here than on GMA.


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## Marysia2 (May 23, 2014)

msscha said:


> I haven't seen the pseudo-scorpions, but I haven't looked, either.


Being from New England, I am reminded more of lobsters when I see a pseudo-scorpion, with their big "claws" raised above their heads. They are tinier than you can imagine (at least the type I've seen) but the raised front legs (claws) are the give-away.

I know that bees like to keep the hive clean and hygienic and they usually take out their trash so if they leave something alone or co-exist with it, I'm going to presume that's how they want it.


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