# How late can I make a new hive?



## Omie (Nov 10, 2009)

My 2 hives started well from 5 frame nucs in late April. They pretty much filled their first deeps with 10 frames, and now they are moving up into their second deep brood boxes each.
If the bees continue to multiply and do well, how late in the season can I conceivably take 2 frames of brood and one of honey from each of them and start a new hive with the 6 frames and a new bought queen...and still have enough time here in NY for that new hive to build up well enough to survive the winter? Around here most people run 2 deep hives for the winter.

Is it too late already? There are tons of things blooming, but I don't think my two hives are quite populated enough yet to take out 2 frames of their brood each- maybe in three more weeks they'd have several more frames full. But would that be too late for the new hive to get set for winter in time?

Not sure I should do this, but I would kind of like to have 3 hives going into this coming winter, and I haven't caught any swarm yet. I'm just curious about the timing issue of this kind of thing. Thanks for any insights....


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## devdog108 (May 7, 2009)

I would consult local beeks, BUT, I just made a split from a singl10 frame Nuc. I didn't expect them to buyild up so fast, but they did and are VERY strong, so i took out 3 frames mixed ages brood, pollen and honey and Nuc'd it, and replaced the removed frames with new foundation. Buys me some time while i wait on more frames to get here, plus I like the split!


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## Blueridge Billy (May 26, 2010)

When I started beekeeping back in the 1970's I had a mentor that gave me the following little ryme that I never forgot:

"A swarm of bees in May is worth a bale of hay
A swarm of bees in June is worth a Silver Spoon
A swarm of bees in July is not worth a fly"

What the old timers were saying was that if the honey flow is tailing out, a swarm of bees in not going to make it if you put them up too late in the season. You need to be on top of what your nectar flow is in your area to see if you have anything blooming that produces nectar going forward. Just because you have a lot of things blooming does not mean that the bees are making honey from it. If you are willing to start feeding the split that you are considering making, that changes your situation quite a bit. Check with other local beekeepers regarding the nectar flow in your area. Once you have done this and you know what that is, you can go ahead and make your splits but I would feed sugar syrup until I was confident that they were strong enough to make it through the winter. I hope this helps you.


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## bakerboy (Apr 29, 2008)

Omie, I live a little bit south of you (Red Hook, NY). We are in the middle of a good flow, Dutch clover, bird's foot trefoil, Catalpa and more are all blooming, and this weekend's rain should help keep some nectar in those flowers. Sumac is also starting to bloom, so with a weekly rain, the girls should have plenty of forage for the next month or so. If this keeps up you should have little or no problems with your split.

Last year I made two splits from a hive, and within two weeks our weather settled into what i called 'the summer of rain' . Neither or those splits had built up any significant stores by late September. Always being hopeful I didn't begin feeding them until after the goldenrod bloom failed to produce, and by then it was a race against time that I and the hives lost.

I would go ahead and make your nuc, but watch it and the weather carefully. If you need to keep feeding them right into late fall, do so. This should ensure a least a good chance of them making until next spring.

It is kind of late, and this year everything has been blooming two weeks early, so while it might not be a trouble free split, it stands a very good chance .


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

If your donor hive continues to build up you can split for another few weeks. Definitely give them a queen that's ready to go. When I do a late split, I try to add more brood that I would in the spring. Or, I add an additional frame of capped brood a couple of weeks after the split to keep the population high. A LOT depends on food availability. If you have doubts, you can try feeding them but nothing beats giving them good stores when you split. Also, if you harvest honey from any hive, try to save some to supplement the winter stores of your split hive. My late splits sometimes don't take syrup when I know that they should be storing it away. If all else looks OK, adding a few frames of honey won't hurt their chances over the winter. Finally, remember that you can always combine in the fall if you think that your split just didn't build up enough to make it on their own and then re-split early in the spring. Keep your best queen of course.


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

If you follow Michael Palmer's posts, you'll find that he splits for overwintering nucs up to late July (or very early August?) His hives are in my old stomping grounds of Northern NY and across the pond in Vermont. You need to have a strong laying queen available to begin winter build-up immediately.

My plan is to also make splits late July here in Western Maine and overwinter the nucs on top of strong hives.

Wayne


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## Omie (Nov 10, 2009)

Thank you everyone!


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