# Hinged lid on swarm trap



## drlonzo (Apr 15, 2014)

I've seen one with a hing lid and clasp to keep it shut. One made from a NUC 5 frame box and one from a 8 frame box. Both used combination of full frame comb and foundationless as well.


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

Thanks, Doc.


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## drlonzo (Apr 15, 2014)

Planning to make a few this year River? I've plans to make a few myself that way. You don't have to worry too much about the lids being blown off that way. Once the bees are in there and set up they will seal the edges shut on the lid too.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Charlie B had a thread bragging about his hinged lid swarm trap. I did one with foundationless frames and the combs collapsed when I brought it home.


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## PAHunter62 (Jan 26, 2011)

I screw my lids on. Use one bait comb and 7 foundationless frames. If you use foundationless, just be sure to level the hive side to side. If not they WILL cross frames top to bottom. I have not had issues with collapsed comb, but I use mediums - big difference over deeps with foundationless.


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## AL from Georgia (Jul 14, 2014)

I hope this isn't too far off topic. If I use foundationless frames with Ritecell starter strips on the top bar, does the trap still need to be level? Also, I have at least one old comb per trap. Where should I place the old comb in relation to the foundationless?


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## drlonzo (Apr 15, 2014)

AL from Georgia said:


> I hope this isn't too far off topic. If I use foundationless frames with Ritecell starter strips on the top bar, does the trap still need to be level? Also, I have at least one old comb per trap. Where should I place the old comb in relation to the foundationless?


You will want your trap level from side to side anytime you use any kind of foundationless setup. Front to back isn't real important except to keep water running away from the hive. As for location of the frame with the comb, put it on the warm side of the box. The bees will want to use it as soon as they move in. With it on the warm side of the box it lets more bees do other work while that side stays warmer by the sun. If no sun hits the box then put it in the center.


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

"Planning to make a few this year River?"

Yep. Last year, we screwed and unscrewed the lids. I don't mind the discipline of a little chore, but it seemed unnecessary. Also, the plywood tops and bottoms were deteriorating. And in some cases being chewed away by squirrels or some other rodent. Tasty glue? Anyway, we had access to quite a bit of culled cedar. So we built a number of new traps with hinged lids on one side and small hook latches on the other. The traps are 11½" deep, but we plan to use medium frames in the traps and deal with the burr comb. We will have one frame with old comb. I like the advice to put the comb on the warm side, but since we tend to face our traps to the south or southeast, I'm concerned that may be too close to the entrance. We'll probably try putting the frame with comb in different locations in the trap and see which works best.


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

odfrank said:


> Charlie B had a thread bragging about his hinged lid swarm trap. I did one with foundationless frames and the combs collapsed when I brought it home.


You just can't close up then throw your traps in the back of your little sissy pick-up Ollie. 
Anyway, my hinges work great.


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## drlonzo (Apr 15, 2014)

Charlie B said:


> You just can't close up then throw your traps in the back of your little sissy pick-up Ollie.
> Anyway, my hinges work great.
> View attachment 15490


Charlie - What type of hinges do you use on yours? They sorta look like cabinet hinges from the picture.


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

drlonzo said:


> Charlie - What type of hinges do you use on yours? They sorta look like cabinet hinges from the picture.


Tom,

They're just regular utility hinges I picked up at Home Depot. They work well.


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## drlonzo (Apr 15, 2014)

Charlie B said:


> Tom,
> 
> They're just regular utility hinges I picked up at Home Depot. They work well.
> 
> View attachment 15491


Charlie - What size do you drill your entrance holes and what's your capture per season so far?


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

Charlie, nice product. We hinged ours on the end so that it won't interfere with a wooden hanger on the back. Do you use a shelf or stand for the trap or do you hang it? Doc, we use 1¼" entrances; Charlie's look about 1½" to me. Incidentally (and anecdotally), we did have better results with round than rectangle entrances (contrary, I think, to Dr. Seeley's findings that shape didn't matter.)


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## WD9N (Dec 28, 2014)

We had a break in the weather here, so I built some swarm traps fashioned after 5frame nucs. I haven't fastened the tops on and was thinking about hinging the lids. My thought was to put a hinge on the end opposite the opening.

















Anyway, I have five traps built to set out this spring. Got to get some bees to get started!


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

drlonzo said:


> Charlie - What size do you drill your entrance holes and what's your capture per season so far?


Tom,

My entrance is 1 1/2". I average around 12 to 15 captures per season in swarm traps. I place 6 to 8 traps out at a time. I should place more but I forget where I put them.

River,

I used to hang them in trees but started having more luck placing them on my existing hive stands. I have several rooftop bee yards that I have really good luck in.


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

Charlie, 
Remarkable. Do you have the successful roof top swarm traps near existing bee colonies?


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

River,

The city of SF has 100's of managed colonies in various neighborhoods and feral hives in Golden Gate Park where one of my rooftop yards are. I have a distinct advantage compared to most beekeepers trying to catch swarms. Some years are better than others. 

Odfrank who is a member on this forum has it even easier than me. He's in the heart of swarm heaven where there are 40 managed hives practically next door to him. I think he caught around 60 swarms the year before last but he put out about 100 traps to do so.

It's like fishing. If you have the right bait and a good fishing hole, your going to do well.


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## AL from Georgia (Jul 14, 2014)

drlonzo said:


> You will want your trap level from side to side anytime you use any kind of foundationless setup. Front to back isn't real important except to keep water running away from the hive. As for location of the frame with the comb, put it on the warm side of the box. The bees will want to use it as soon as they move in. With it on the warm side of the box it lets more bees do other work while that side stays warmer by the sun. If no sun hits the box then put it in the center.


Thanks for the tips.


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## bevy's honeybees (Apr 21, 2011)

I use D Coates nuks for most of my bait boxes. The lid has a lip on front and back and I ratchet strap it for the move and a #8 screen for the entrance. I'd rather use the disc like Odfrank uses, but that doesn't work with D Coates boxes. I know because I tried. 
I don't use foundation. 1 drawn frame at the end, and empty frames. Move carefully. 

I had a bait box out at a place where the guy gets swarms moving into rec trailers they sell new so we are trying to entice them away from the trailers. I hadn't checked it since last October but I went last week after finding a different bait box from last fall had a swarm.

It had tipped over, on it's side, and bees must have moved in after it tipped over. That's going to be a process to get them moved. I haven't brought it home yet but when I do I will put a 5 frame deep on top with drawn combs. Leave it for some time, then I will use smoke and a piece of paper towel with bee robber to get as many to move up as I can into top box. Put top box on a bottom board. Loosen the frames from trap out and flip it upside down...I think on this box the bottom board was not nailed on, not sure. I hope to get all 5 frames out in one piece but somehow I think it will not go that smooth.


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

I run two 5 frame medium nucs for my swarm traps. They are built exactly like a lang hive but narrower of course. A ratchet strap holds eveything in place then another to hold the hive to the trap bracket. So easy to swap frames or or whole traps.
I usually run one drawn comb (in the center) and four plastic foundation.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

MrBeeman... I run my swarm boxes a little differently.

I put two frames of old drawn brood comb against one side of an old 10 framer. I put 2 sheets of foundation against the 2 frames of brood comb. About 95 % of the swarms will move in, clean the brood comb and start drawing on the foundation. Only in about 5 % of the time will they go beyond the two frames of foundation and drop their own comb. That normally happens if they are in the box for an extended period of time, (couple of weeks) before I check and find them in the box.

I try to check my 25 to 30 boxes, once each week, during swarm season. When I find one occupied I add 6 frames with foundation and leave in place for about another week, by that time the queen will have begun to lay, I then remove the frames and place in a good box and move to one of the bee yards. Then put 2 brood combs and 2 frames with foundation back in the swarm box and wait for another to move in.

This system works well for me. I normally get 10 to 15 per year. Last year only got 8. The year before got 16. No way to predict.

I just use a normal migratory lid on the trap and the 10 framer that I transfer the bees into. The hinged lid would be O.K., I suppose, but, I don't see any real advantage.

cchoganjr


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Charlie B said:


> Odfrank who is a member on this forum has it even easier than me. He's in the heart of swarm heaven where there are 40 managed hives practically next door to him. I think he caught around 60 swarms the year before last but he put out about 100 traps to do so.


Charlie, you might check the facts before making a buffoon of your self getting them wrong. 
I only set out about 40+ traps, some catch two swarms in a season. In 2012 I caught over 50, 50ish in 2013, 30 ish in 2014.

>I'd rather use the disc like Odfrank uses, but that doesn't work with D Coates boxes.
I don't understand this, please explain.

>Remarkable. Do you have the successful roof top swarm traps near existing bee colonies?
How would he catch bait swarms if there were not existing colonies nearby?


These are DCoates nucs with the disc.


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

Let's not split hairs here Ollie. 40 or 100 traps, 50 or 60 caught, it's all good.


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

Cleo,

Why do you place your frames to one side of your trap? Why not in the middle?


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Charlie B said:


> Let's not split hairs here Ollie. 40 or 100 traps, 50 or 60 caught, it's all good.


It will only be all good when after years of trying I catch one of your swarms at my site on 26th Ave.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

Charlie.... I have always found that if you put them in the middle, the bees tend to drop their own comb, attaching it to the hive top on each side of your bait combs. That requires a cutout, unless you have foundationless frames in the swarm box. Foundationless frames normally lead to a mess when you move the swarm hive. By placing the combs to one side, they rarely ever drop their own comb, instead, they clean the two brood combs i give them, then start drawing on the two frames of foundation I give them.

If you place the combs to one side, your swarm box looks like a larger, empty space, than if the space is divided on each side of your box, with comb in the middle. Someone, years ago, did a study on the size (volume) that more often attracts swarms.

By starting on one side with two brood combs, then two frames of foundation, they rarely ever drop their own comb from the top. When I find a swarm in a box, I open it and fill with foundation. Let it sit about a week, then transfer frames to a good box at the swarm box site and then move the bees away in a new box. Leave the swarm box behind in the same location. 

This system works well for me. Might not work for others. I always say, do what works for you.

My swarm boxes are just old 10 framers that are no longer serviceable for normal bee boxes. As I cull out old boxes, i use them for swarm boxes. I never make ( nor use), new boxes for swarm boxes.

cchoganjr


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

All due respect Cleo, but it seems like a lot of messing about with frames and such. I use the full hive method because I cannot tell you how many times I did a removal in which the bees moved in on an old hive location just to use the existing space that was already filled with comb. Like moving into a furnished apartment I suppose. lol
I already have two removals lined up for spring that fits the above scenario. 
I also use it because I may not be able to pick up a swarm trap right away. I forgot about one last spring and the landowner called me two months later and said the bees were all clustered on the front of the hive. THAT was a full hive!
However, I am going to try your set up this spring in a few traps. I'm not so sure that it is the space available or the total area that attracts swarms. Morning.... BTW.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

Mr. Beeman... I am retired so I have lots of time for messing around with frames and such. HA!! I too have had lots of bees move into vacant hives, full of drawn comb. Happens almost every year around the barn where old hives are stored. 

Unfortunately I do not have enough drawn comb to fill swarm boxes with drawn comb. I sell nucs, and I use a lot of drawn comb to give the nucs a kickstart, and so I only put 2 drawn combs in each swarm box.

I only put out swarm boxes around the county within about a 5 mile radius. During swarm season I try to run the swarm box route about every week to 10 days. All of mine are set up where I drive past and see if something has moved in. If so, I stop and fill the box with frames with foundation. Then leave them until next week. Swarms will draw comb like crazy, and I often let them draw comb for me to steal, and use in my nuc operations. Good way to get drawn comb.

Yes, occasionally I miss one and they drop comb and fill the box. When that happens I normally just sit that box on top of a 10 framer and wait for the queen to move down into the box below, which is filled with frames of foundation.. When I find the queen in the bottom box I place an excluder between the boxes, let the brood in the top box (the one with the comb attached to the lid), emerge and then do a cutout. Render the dropped comb into wax, and sell the wax, leave the two frames of good brood comb and add 8 frames of foundation. Remove the queen excluder and I have a 2 chamber hive ready to sell, (granted, it has a queen that is not new, because she swarmed , but, I tell the customer that, and he can make the decision to buy or not to buy.

I'm with you on the last point. I don't know if it is "open space" or "total space available" that is attractive to a swarm, it is just the way I have always done it.

I also, always, start nucs on one side and let them expand toward the middle and the opposite side. I think it makes it easier to manage, to add frames, and the bees can continue to expand from the side. Nucs can grow like crazy and can tend to swarm if the nuc gets crowded. 

I guess one of the biggest reasons I do it this way, is, it is the way my father and my grandfather did it. HA, HA!!!!! Hard to break old habits. That is how they did it in the 1950's and how I do it now. Unfortunately I don't have a son or daughter to pass the tradition on.

I know you already know all this, I just wrote it down hoping it may help some new beekeepers to another perspective way of managing swarm boxes.

I owe an apology to Rivererdent and to this thread. I just noticed it is entitled "Hinged lid on swarm trap", and what I have written has nothing to do with a hinge on a swarm trap. Sorry. 

cchoganjr


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

Cleo,

I'm going to try your one side method. I'm purging my old comb stock as its getting too bad to even put it swarm traps. Like I said earlier, I tend to miss one or two and then when I finally remember, they are busting at the seems or full of wax moths!

The hinges work great for me because I use 8 and 10 frame deeps and it's a lighter load and less components I have to carry. Easy to open and close and move around.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

Charlie B..... Just asking, doesn't the hinged top get in the way when you do have to do a cutout from the swarm hive, either at the swarm site or one of your yards. If the comb is attached to the top would it not be easier to work with a top that is not fastened to the box? Just asking, because I don't know.

cchoganjr


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

Cleo,

I fill the trap with old brood frames and I usually get to my traps before they start comb on the top of the frames. I did have one time where I just used a long serrated knife and cut gently under the top until I got it loose. It was no big deal. I carry a long knife in my truck for cutouts.


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## WD9N (Dec 28, 2014)

Hinges with removable pins could be used. This would allow for the lid to come off if there is a need to cutout comb, drive the pin out like a door hinge and lift it off.


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## Steve56Ace (Sep 5, 2014)

I know you already know all this, I just wrote it down hoping it may help some new beekeepers to another perspective way of managing swarm boxes.

I owe an apology to Rivererdent and to this thread. I just noticed it is entitled "Hinged lid on swarm trap", and what I have written has nothing to do with a hinge on a swarm trap. Sorry. 

cchoganjr[/QUOTE]

Cleo, Thank you I am very glad I read those jewels of info & wisdom.


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

As a follow up, the hinges on the swarm traps were a failure. We used two hinges on one of the short sides, and they pulled out when the lid was opened in actual use. They also let too much light in the top. We replaced them with rims (like a telescoping cover) on three sides and a screen door hook on the fourth side (the back) next to the wood hanger. So far, this seems to work well.


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## TerriB (Apr 8, 2014)

Mr. Hogan, was wondering if you place the 2 brood frames & 2 frames w/foundation on the opposite side of the entry hole on the swarm trap? Thanks so much!


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