# Erratic Bee Behavior! Drunk, Poisoned, or what??!



## Walliebee (Nov 17, 2006)

They don't like the color black. 

Who knows; the girls do strange things from time to time.


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## Beaches' Bee-Haven Apiary (May 22, 2007)

Walliebee said:


> They don't like the color black. QUOTE]
> 
> Yeah, but these bees have got to be foragers or scouts. I didn't think they really cared when they're well over 10 yards from their hive. We dismessed the first one as just a weird quirk, but four and one time, in the same place (I walked around the house and didn't have anything come at me)?
> 
> -Nathanael


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## King bee apiary (Feb 8, 2005)

*Robbing?*

How many hives do you have? Sometimes while being robbed they will be very defensive some distance from the hive. Also could be queenless as this also can make them defensive. Other critters bothering them will make them ill.

Sounds normal to me.


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

Cologne, after shave, hair spray, or perfume will set them off.


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

I had an approximate similar situation here in one yard (total 8 hives). Plenty of nectar flow, so there is no signs of robbing at any level. No prefume (homie don't do no smelley stuff at a junkyard). Bees significantly territorial and defensive. Bees more likely to bump than to sting. After some serious denial I moved all (2 or 3 right at dark over three days). I thought at first it might be one or two bad actors (very stong), but when I moved these the behavior never faltered. Same thing when I moved the next strongest set.

I have never had a problem from these hives even though people are fairly close by. My final thoughts were it was time for these hives to be somewhere else and to be broken down into smaller units.


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## naturebee (Dec 25, 2004)

Beaches' Bee-Haven Apiary said:


> Are these bees poisoned, drunk, or do you think they may have found a home somewhere and I just missed it?
> Some help or suggestions would be appreciated.
> -Nathanael


I'll say they neither, 
they are probably Russian bees! 

Joe


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## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

How many hives do you have?

Unusual behavior issues, if they continue, are a good reason to ask
the state apiarist to send out an inspector to take some samples
for the CCD team to look at. 

The samples should be split into two sets -
One set frozen in liquid nitrogen, and one set kept "on ice"
or the chemical ice packs. (Each type of preservation has some
advantages and some drawbacks, so both approaches assure that
all the types of toys can be used to look at the bees in detail.

So, if the unusual behavior continues, I'm hoping you are OK with
sacrificing a few hundred bees from each hive.

Remember, CCD is said to have a significant behavior component to
the problem, so reporting unusual behavior may be reporting hives
that are not yet "sick" but just starting to get sick.

On the other hand, you may never again see the behavior as long
as you live. I've bee head-butted by Kamakazbees thousands of
times, but never when I was not in a bee yard working a hive that
was about to get testy (or, in some cases, get all medieval on my
little freckled posterior).


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

iddee said:


> Cologne, after shave, hair spray, or perfume will set them off.


If the above doesn't solve the problem check for something bothering them, skunks, etc. If that doesn't check, then I'd do nothing until the tulip poplar starts to bloom. If they are still agressive during the tulip polar bloom then I would consider moving them or requeening.

Good luck!


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>they are probably Russian bees!

That's what I figure.


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## okb (Apr 16, 2007)

naturebee said:


> I'll say they neither,
> they are probably Russian bees!
> 
> Joe


The Russian hives I have are more gental that the Italians I have. Go figure. However, I am around the Russians almost daily. The Italians are in another yard.


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

jim fischer writes:
Remember, CCD is said to have a significant behavior component to
the problem, so reporting unusual behavior may be reporting hives
that are not yet "sick" but just starting to get sick.

tecumseh replies:
well just as a curious side bar to the conversation. my friends, who's place is where my hives resided, made the comment (he is definitely not a bee keeper but he does tend to lots of animals) said the bees appeared drunk and confused.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Some bees such as AHB actually send out scouts to fly the perimeter some distance from the colony. So it is in the genetic make-up, or at least the possibility of bees from other then AHB to perhaps do the same on one level or another.

Scent, movement, vibrations, being bothered by skunks at night, etc., all possibly can bring about a heightened sense of the guard bees.


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## naturebee (Dec 25, 2004)

Oh boy, where are we going here?

I think the suggestions of CCD, AHB and calling the head butting a ’strange behavior’ might be categorized as strange in itself.  

It is a perfectly normal behavior expressed in some strains of bees. <<<1 or 2 bees>>> head butting, in NO WAY suggests a problem of any significance exists.

B B H A can certainly go into panic mode, and….so on.
But there are techniques in beekeeping that can solve these behavior problems,,,
It’s called ‘requeeing‘. 

Wondering now, if 'head butting' is going to be made a symptom of CCD? 

Best Wishes,
Joe


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## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

Naturebee, what is of concern here is the "drunken and confused"
behavior, which I presume was an evaluation of the flying of the
bees.

The head-butting alone is merely classic defensive behavior, as
we all know.


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## Hobie (Jun 1, 2006)

I had a wild colony that kept a wide perimeter. You couldn't walk within 30-40 feet of the hive without someone coming after you. Sometimes a head-butt, more often an unprovoked sting. I can't tell you how many times I entertained the neighbors with my "Benny Hill" style running around the yard trying to lose my attacker! (Cue: "Yakkity Sax")

They died over the winter a few years ago, and that was one colony I didn't mourn too long.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Joe,
Normal behavior, but advice in requeening? Hmmm.....

I mentioned AHB's as an example of the genetic and behavior of a cousin to the bees we normally keep, that being the AHB's. Nobody suggested AHB's Joe. I only wanted to point out that it is a behavior pattern in some bees and perhaps a genetic trigger. If AHB's have this genetic make-up, then is it possible that other bees could also do this? There is always genetic variations within any species.

With that said, I think one should look for the trigger before one goes out and starts killing off queens due to your labeling of this as "behavior problem" all the while calling it "normal". So how many times should one requeen to find a hive that does not do this, and i guess would be considered by your definitions "abnormal"?

I mention AHB's as an example, then you suggest "normal behavior expressed in some strains" after you called my very comments in by commenting on AHB's, as "strange".

You have lost me Joe.

Its "strange", but "normal behavior". It's "normal", but you should "requeen". 

You lost me here Joe..  Your right, "Where are we going"? It's hard to say after that.


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## naturebee (Dec 25, 2004)

BjornBee said:


> With that said, I think one should look for the trigger before one goes out and starts killing off queens due to your labeling of this as "behavior problem" all the while calling it "normal". So how many times should one requeen to find a hive that does not do this, and i guess would be considered by your definitions "abnormal"?


Requeening was in advisement because the poster seemed distressed by the behavior.
If a ’normal trait’ IS NOT a desired trait, then one MUST requeen!!

Yes head butting is ‘normal’ in Russians, but a ‘normal solution’ for this ‘normal behavior’ that apparently is distressing this beekeeper would be a 'normal procedure' called requeening with a strain that 'normally' does not carry the trait. 

Also, requeening is in advisement even if they are not Russians because guards head butting at greater distances is often an early sign of aggressive genetics, and is also NOT a desired trait. 



BjornBee said:


> I mention AHB's as an example, then you suggest "normal behavior expressed in some strains" after you called my very comments in by commenting on AHB's, as "strange".


Well, I am against alarmist type responses that IMO are crafted as an attempt to provoke fear. The assumption that you have now placed in this beekeepers head that he potentially may have an aggressive colony of AHB in his back yard is perhaps a bit reckless.  

I would have chosen the Russian bee for an example, which are known, and have in my yards, accosted passersby at distances of 100 feet, and not risk causing fear and panic. 

Joe


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## acb's (Apr 14, 2007)

I"ll have to add another post in defense of Russians. I have to agree with okb. 

I can't give an answer to or an explanation for your bee's behavior. They don't sound like any Russians we've had experience with. I don't know about the Russians you've been around, but this is our 5th spring with Russians in many different conditions and situations. I won't deny they head butt some(a much preferable behavior to stinging). Yet, even with the only hive that I thought nasty enough to requeen, we've never had a problem with them bothering us or others away from their hives! We've had the occasional ones that will buzz around your head as you walk away, but they've never bothered us unless we've bothered them first.

Again, I can't help you with what your problem is or was, but I think I can tell you what your problem isn't or wasn't. Russians.

Arvin


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## Bob D (May 15, 2005)

Why? Are Russians more prone to attack and sting or simply more headbutting further from the hive?


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

naturebee said:


> Well, I am against alarmist type responses that IMO are crafted as an attempt to provoke fear. The assumption that you have now placed in this beekeepers head that he potentially may have an aggressive colony of AHB in his back yard is perhaps a bit reckless.
> 
> Joe


Did you even read my comments? I said "....or at least the possibility of bees from other then AHB to perhaps do the same on one level or another."

"Bees other than AHB".....lets repeat that "Bees other then AHB". To have you now claim that I even suggested that he has AHB's is outright wrong, and full of it. "other than AHB" makes it clear I DID NOT claim anything you now are suggesting.

And taking it to the level of calling my comments as provoking fear, and alarmist is about as far fetched as one can do in twisting the words as it gets.

I merely suggested that AHB have been known to send out scouts of guard bees to patrol an area. My comments just suggested that perhaps OTHER bees may do so also. How about standing up and actually show me where I said ANYONE"S bees were AHB or even remotely suggested otherwise. It's a shame you can make claims against another person's written comments, but I must bite my lip and hold back telling you what I really feel. 

Just another of what I have come to expect from you....  Always one to stand up for that helpless victim you are so happy to apply to another. But in this case you are fabricating the case yourself in your own little head. Thank you.


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## notaclue (Jun 30, 2005)

> We've had the occasional ones that will buzz around your head as you walk away <

I always thought of the bravado shown on TV shows, "...Yeah that's right walk away... your lucky you're leaving..."

The drunk and confused I had last summer for about a week, then they were fine. They have been my strongest before and since. I don't know if they got into 'bad' pollen, nectar or if they had been mildly poisoned by a man-made product. I had forgotten all about it until I read this post tonight.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Are Russians more prone to attack and sting or simply more headbutting further from the hive?

In my experience, simply more headbutting further from the hive.


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## naturebee (Dec 25, 2004)

Jim Fischer said:


> Naturebee, what is of concern here is the "drunken and confused"
> behavior, which I presume was an evaluation of the flying of the
> bees.
> 
> ...


Good point Jim

I had Russians at one time, and it appeared that when they head butted, or pulled hair, they would often do it in a manner that appeared they were drunk when they buzzed around in the hair on my arm in one spot appearing as if they were not of sound health. They would do this for nearly a minute, pulling hair and making a fuss, but not stinging. 

But thinking it over, what they were really doing was attempting to make a big fuss, buzz and act fearsome in an attempt to get me to move on. This behavior could be discribed as drunken like I suppose. 

Joe


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## naturebee (Dec 25, 2004)

BjornBee said:


> Just another of what I have come to expect from you....  Always one to stand up for that helpless victim you are so happy to apply to another. But in this case you are fabricating the case yourself in your own little head. Thank you.


BjornBee, 
Your response is perhaps way overboard!
In no way was my posts in response to your post! I would have quoted you if it were.
I think you resorted to personal attacks a little too soon. With respect to the moderators, I’m not going to escalate this thing by replying in kind. 

But I think Jim F set a wonderful example you to follow. He allowed me to state my position and realized I disagreed with him on that point. But then, since he allowed me to have my opinion, and chose to answer it in a manner of kind inquiry. This allowed discussion to continue in a friendly manner, and I will say that I think we managed to find a common ground of agreement on this subject, and I swayed to accept his point of view.

Remember, this is a discussion list, and there will be dividing opinions, the real talent is to show disagreement without personal attacks and in a manner that does not escalate the situation.

I find that when one resorts to personal attacks, that is an indication that facts are lacking. In these cases, the cream rises to the top and the personal attacks and facts lacking sink to the sediment.

Joe


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## Beaches' Bee-Haven Apiary (May 22, 2007)

Some other factors that may have affected their behavior was that our neighbor was mowing his lawn 250 yds away from our hives. We were on the deck, about 100 yds away from the hives. Mom's hive had been queenless and we saw the queen out on her mating flight the day before (we also inspected the colonies the day before, but hadn't been close to the that day). The queens are about as feral as you can get, so perhaps genetics has something to do with it. So far it hasn't happened again.

Thank y'all for your responses. It's been interesting, and it was curious behavior.

-Nathanael


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

naturebee said:


> Well, I am against alarmist type responses that IMO are crafted as an attempt to provoke fear. The assumption that you have now placed in this beekeepers head that he potentially may have an aggressive colony of AHB in his back yard is perhaps a bit reckless.
> 
> Joe


Are you really with it today Joe?

You quote my comment then post this response, directly stating that MY comments placed the idea that he has AHB.

I'll ask again, WHERE did I say or suggest that he HAS AHB?

This is the type crap that should not be allowed in the forum. You made a claim about me, i asked for you to reference it, and nothing.

Now, you claim to have not made the comments about AHB in response to my post, AFTER you quote me (although incorrectly). See post 18. Once again, you claim I suggested bees were AHB. Wrong again.

Are you this upset because of my personal feelings and comments about your efforts to make claims of some strain of feral bees living in your backyard, magically untouched or influenced by the hundreds of managed colonies in your area? Come on Joe. Is there something else perhaps? You make claims against me where I said nothing to the statements you claim, and now claim your own comments were not based on my comments after you directly quoted me.

Calling me reckless, and claiming I have suggested someone has AHB's is WRONG. I'll ask again, show me where I said anything such as this. Either show some maturity in the matter, or shut up already. I thought one was supposed to show the reference if asked when such matters involved belittling or making statements in the manner you are doing.

Put up, or shut up. You say I'm overboard AFTER you make false claims about me, lie about your own responses, and then tell a nice little story about you and JF having a nice conversation as you see it. Nice game plan. But I'll play along for what its worth....


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## naturebee (Dec 25, 2004)

BjornBee said:


> Are you really with it today Joe?
> …This is the type crap that should not be allowed in the forum.
> …Come on Joe. Is there something else perhaps?
> …Put up, or shut up.


Hello BjornBee,

I have learned much on these lists. 
One thing I learned for sure is that,,,, 
Often, the person that resorts to personal attracts first, is the first to portray themselves as the innocent victim, waking away unscathed. For that reason, I will not let your behavior dictate my response, but will keep to a kind manner. 

Your inability to participate in discussion without disagreements escalating into hostilities and personal attacks, is something you should be concerned about. 

The tactic you employ is perhaps doing more harm to yourself than the person you are intending to direct them towards. 

To turn this into a learning experience for all here.

I wish to post a fable about bees by Aesop; a slave and story-teller who lived in Ancient Greece (620-560 B.C.). Aesop’s fables have remained a popular choice for moral education of children for centuries, and perhaps a little moral education can help in this case. 

Note: understand that when translating old text, I leave the spelling as it was written, generally old English versions words not often used in America.

This fable is called:
A Country-man and Bees

There was a Plodding Country-fellow that was pretty
well to pass in the World, and he might thank a
Good Stock of Bees for’t. As he was sucking a Comb
one day, a Bee caught him by the Tongue: The Pain
put him into such a Rage, that he threw down all his
Hives upon it. The Bees fell to expostulate the matter
with him, what a Fool he was to do himself Mischief
because he was Angry at another body: especially 
considering that it was Their Labour and Industry that
both Rais’d and Maintain’d him, and if he would not
take the Sweet and the Sower one with another, they’d
e’en leave him to shift for himself. Upon This Disgust,
they fortook the Poor Man, to his utter Ruine.

Moralized:

We here are all wealthy that participate on Bee Source.
A person should be grateful for sharing as well as profiting from this great wealth of knowledge found on Bee Source lists. If a person should be angered to rage by simple disagreement. That person should not be foolish to do his own wealth harm by escalating to personal attacks because he was angry at another body: especially considering that it is in all our combined Labours and Industry that Bee Source has become the great wealth of knowledge that it is today. A person that ‘Takes the Sweet with the sower‘ on Bee Source, will reap vast wealth in the form of respect and knowledge, as well as publics willingness to listen. A person angered to rage is forsaking this wealth, and risks harm to himself in the public opinions, as well as doing harm to everyone else’s wealth.

Glossary:
expostulate - To reason earnestly with someone in an effort to dissuade or correct; remonstrate. 
shift - To provide for one's own needs; get along: "I can shift for myself"


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