# timing when switching from queenless starter to queen right finisher



## msl (Sep 6, 2016)

> My question is do you think it would be better to graft and leave, so I can be back in 5 days to transfer the cells into the queen right finisher





> What is the reason that on day 5 the cells need to be transferred to the queen right finisher?


not sure how your counting your days.








typical you move from the starter to the finisher 24 hours after grafting


> What is the reason that on day 5 the cells need to be transferred to the queen right finisher?


Being queen less is required to get a good start in most cases, after witch bees in a queen right hive will finish the cells, but would have ignored the grafts.
As the larva grows its food needs grow exponentially, it takes almost 7X the bees to finish a cell then it does to start one.



> . I really want the queens to emerge near the end of June





> I have never raised queens before


You might want to start small and early, I most cerntily wouldn't expect your 1st ever or even 2nd round of grafts to turn out well 
Maby change to a nuc sized queen less free flying starter/finisher?
https://www.beesource.com/forums/sh...ing-using-the-Joseph-Clemens-Starter-Finisher

Fail fast, fail cheap, and fail early!
Limits your resource losses and gives you time to lean form your mistakes and still hit your gole date. + any early queens are paying in to your resource pool for nucs.
I am not saying un naturally early, but when the start of swarm season comes around you should be starting


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## tpope (Mar 1, 2015)

You could move the cells 6/18 and return in time to populate mating nucs. 

Download your own spreadsheet from the Ohio State Beekeepers Association. I use it to keep up with my timing when raising successive batches. 
I would start early myself...


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

calkal said:


> What is the reason that on day 5 the cells need to be transferred to the queen right finisher? Is this an exact timing thing, what would be lost if it were on day 7 for example?


In the Bro. Adam cell building method, the cells are moved to the queen right finisher 5 days after graft because the cells are sealed that day. Why not wait until day 7. I have, but not best plan. It increases the chance that a rogue virgin could enter the cell builder.


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## aran (May 20, 2015)

Michael Palmer said:


> In the Bro. Adam cell building method, the cells are moved to the queen right finisher 5 days after graft because the cells are sealed that day. Why not wait until day 7. I have, but not best plan. It increases the chance that a rogue virgin could enter the cell builder.


If using the cell starter as also the finisher do you recombine the starter with the original mother colony on day 5 then? ( over the excluder obviously)


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## calkal (Feb 2, 2019)

aran said:


> If using the cell starter as also the finisher do you recombine the starter with the original mother colony on day 5 then? ( over the excluder obviously)


I am not the expert here, but from what I learned from Micheal Palmer's videos, I would say yes.


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## Juhani Lunden (Oct 3, 2013)

Michael Palmer said:


> In the Bro. Adam cell building method, the cells are moved to the queen right finisher 5 days after graft because the cells are sealed that day.


Brother Adam writes himself that the queen, with capped brood frames, is brought back to the original hive stand after 11 days. 

The queenless cell raising unit, or most of it, is used strengthening hives in that yard.


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## calkal (Feb 2, 2019)

Michael Palmer said:


> In the Bro. Adam cell building method, the cells are moved to the queen right finisher 5 days after graft because the cells are sealed that day. Why not wait until day 7. I have, but not best plan. It increases the chance that a rogue virgin could enter the cell builder.


Thanks, I just realized how nicely protected the cells are once they are put above the excluder.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

aran said:


> If using the cell starter as also the finisher do you recombine the starter with the original mother colony on day 5 then? ( over the excluder obviously)


Yes


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## Farmer1949 (Apr 19, 2012)

Or if you are a like me and try to emulate the hunter in the Canterbury tales and never met a gadget you didn't like, you can order one of these hand held queen rearing calculator for $15...lol..it really is pretty neat...see Youtube videos by Ian or Jason Chrisman...








Order here: http://dcsgadgets.blogspot.com/p/beekeeping-gadgets.html


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## calkal (Feb 2, 2019)

Farmer1949 said:


> Or if you are a like me and try to emulate the hunter in the Canterbury tales and never met a gadget you didn't like, you can order one of these hand held queen rearing calculator for $15...lol..it really is pretty neat...see Youtube videos by Ian or Jason Chrisman...
> View attachment 46171
> 
> 
> Order here: http://dcsgadgets.blogspot.com/p/beekeeping-gadgets.html


Already got one, really like it.


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## aran (May 20, 2015)

Michael Palmer said:


> Yes


Thanks much


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## calkal (Feb 2, 2019)

Thanks to all the good advice here, I have decided to to graft June 7th, this will allow me to check graft acceptance and try again in case it is an epic fail. Can I check for acceptance at 24 hours? Or maybe I should ask when is the earliest I can check?


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## Hillbillybees (Mar 3, 2016)

Started cells can be seen in 24 hours but the real number will be different generally at harvest of the cells. It at least lets you know your on the right track.


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## Rich’s Bees (May 23, 2018)

All of the planning on the exact day,,,,,,the 7th,,,is good, but I would run with the input from “msl”. Even if you are working towards a solid date, you would be well advised to perfect your skill on a few small batches, before putting all your eggs in one basket. I can remember very well how my first couple try’s at grafting worked out. Plus you cannot guarantee Mother Nature won’t scrap your plan for you on the 7th. In zone 3 you should be able to give it a shot or two well before that critical production date. Practice makes perfect!


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