# chokecherry melomel?



## rhaldridge

Has anyone here ever made this?

We picked a batch of chokecherries at our place in upstate Ny last month, and made jelly from them. It was some of the best jelly I've ever had. The flavor was cherry-like, but much richer,and with all sorts of subtle elements.

Just wondering if I should make some melomel with them next summer?


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## WVMJ

I planted some last year hoping to make mels from them in a few years. They supposed to make a great wine so should make a good mead. WVMJ


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## Vance G

I have made a lot of wine over the last fity some years. My Grand dad had me making it when I was way too young to drink it. The only caution I would have is that the cherries are small and I would rack it off the fruit quickly after a short fast fermentation or the tannin from the pits can get a bit intense for some. Ten days is good. I pour boiling water over berries to kill critters and go from there. Two gallons of berries is enough for at least six gallons of wine. I am making my first mead with it as soon as the weather turns cooler and my basement stays more stable below seventy.


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## Deezil

Personally.. Although a pain it would be, I'd pit them..

And I'd freeze the fruit first, this gets you past the boiling-water part without worry of the hot water setting some of the pectin and causing a haze (takes more pectic enzmye than normal, when the pectin has been heated)

I'd only add enough water to the juice, to bring the acidity in-check.

Made some regular cherry wine, but havent got my hands on chokecherries yet..
Same process though..


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## rhaldridge

It would be tough to pit them, because there's very little flesh between the skin and pit. To make the jelly, we boiled them with a fair amount of water until the fruits burst open, then strained off all but the juice. The flavor was still unbelievably intense. You might not need a lot to give a fairly deep flavor and beautiful color.


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## Deezil

Yeah I was aware there wasnt much flesh, just not sure how willingly the flesh gives up the pit.. If it clings, then pitting wouldnt be worth it & something like that might be a better option.. 

But if you can get the pits out, you'll benefit from the flesh of the fruit spending more time in the fermentation.. 

'Ideal' and 'possible' dont always work well together, lol


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## Vance G

I've only made twenty or so batches. Pour the boiling water over to kill critters, you aren't boiling the fruit. If you have pectinayse by all means stir it in a day or so before you pitch yeast. I have great results just waiting for the must to cool down to non lethal temps for the yeasties. Freezing to help release juice would be great but I don't find you need to. Color is intense though it will start to settle out after ten years or so.


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## Vance G

Last night I put together 3 gallons of chokecherries, a pound of raisins, 12 pounds of honey with six more reserved for day ten when I rack off the fruit, 10 mg KIV-1116, and water to 6 1/2 gallons. aerated it furiously and going down to areate again and see if the yeast is having a good lunch. All this talk made me think it was time.


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## Vance G

This had already worked down to SG 1.000 on the 4th day! I added another 3 pounds of honey. Five more days and I will rack it off the fruit and decide whether or not to add more honey.


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## rhaldridge

Vance G said:


> This had already worked down to SG 1.000 on the 4th day! I added another 3 pounds of honey. Five more days and I will rack it off the fruit and decide whether or not to add more honey.


Pictures?


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## Vance G

I don't know how and it is just dark purple in a white sealed brewbucket. Wish I could supply what you want.


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## rhaldridge

Vance G said:


> I don't know how and it is just dark purple in a white sealed brewbucket. Wish I could supply what you want.


Understood. I was hoping you were brewing it in a glass carboy. Our chokecherry jelly was such a rich beautiful color.

Maybe when you bottle it?


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## Vance G

The wine will be the same color as the jelly I make which is the color you describe. That intense color will settle out of the wine in seven or eight years though.


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## WVMJ

Maybe one of the new tannin additives that sacrafice themselves to be precipitated out instead of your polyphenols might protect the color? WVMJ


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## Deezil

WVMJ said:


> Maybe one of the new tannin additives that sacrafice themselves to be precipitated out instead of your polyphenols might protect the color? WVMJ


Err.... New tannins? Enlighten me, dear friend lol


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## Vance G

Guess I don't speak polyphenols. I just make some mead to give away and serve for holidays. My methodology is good enough for the people I hang out with. It still tastes the same when the color does slip to the bottom if kept from oxidation. My chokecherry melomel has gone dry and pretty much stopped working. The KIV-1116 is out of sugar. I planned to rack into secondary at ten days. Getting must off the pits and and berries will reduce the amount of tannin. Tomorrow is 9 and I think it will be close enough and I will add honey to bring it back to 1.030 and let it work back down dry and maybe repeat. Haven't decided. Tastes pretty fair just the way it is if you like a dry merlot type wine.


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## Vance G

Mead has worked back down to 1.000 I decided to rack off the fruit today and got six gallons, add another pound per gallon of bochet honey and bulk age for a year or so now. I look at that still black ripe fruit that has not given nearly its all and am tempted to add 15 pounds more honey and water to six gallon mark and see what I get in another ten days. I have the usual surplus of melter honey. After four days with the chokecherries one could not taste the burned honey at all. Think I will give it a go.


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## Vance G

After racking six gallons off the lees and fruit, I added water to fill the bucket back up and melter honey to get to an OG of around 1.120.
I threw in 8 oz of pollen and aerated. I airlocked it for no particular reason. This morning my wife was in the basement and made the pointed remark that my science project was making a lot of noise! I knew that my army of KIV's would be huge and this fermentation would not take long. The airlock was steady in its outgassing, just constant flow of C02. I popped the lid, there was a mountain of foam and berries and raisins pushed up high out of the must. I aerated and degassed. The SG is down to 1.070 and I am betting this party will effectively be over in another two and a half days. The berries apparently were still up to the task I set them. The must tasted just like thinned chokecherry pankcake syrup again. Marvelous reservoirs of flavoring are these little bitter cherries. A lot of people will be getting a bottle Christmas after next.


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## Vance G

My next to favorite batch of melomel is one I made with chokecherries and melter honey out of my wax melter. I call it a bochetomel and I wish it was legal to mail you a bottle. It is wonderful young! Not even a year old and no raw or hot tastes. I used KIV and it is around 16% alcohol and the carmelized honey makes its perception that of a slightly sweet mead. I think I will use light honey this August when the chokecherries ripen and see the difference. The only reason I don't use the melter honey on all my meads now is if I want them dry. I am going to make some PR with lots of melter honey and EC-1118. I am bottling a carboy of mead where I was supposed to be making a quick sweet mead using 71B and used the EC-1118! When it was a year old, I had to be talked out of dumping it! Now it is absolutely wonderful and about 21% ABV. I guess sampling is making me talkative.


rhaldridge said:


> Has anyone here ever made this?
> 
> We picked a batch of chokecherries at our place in upstate Ny last month, and made jelly from them. It was some of the best jelly I've ever had. The flavor was cherry-like, but much richer,and with all sorts of subtle elements.
> 
> Just wondering if I should make some melomel with them next summer?


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## WVMJ

We got chokecherries on our trees we planted finally this year, cant wait to try some! I did a writeup on Bochetomels for BC last year, we are still aging our elderberry bochetomel, put in a few to many cocao nibs to go with the bochet honey and its got to get mellowed a little before bottling. I have never picked chokecherries before, how can you tell when they are ripe? If you guys boil them for jelly then they can also be steamed in a steam juicer, would you think that would work well also? WVMJ


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## Vance G

My grandfather took me on as the chokecherry wine apprentice when I was 8 years old and actually took over the franchise (one less thing for him to do) for a number of years. No science or wine making knowledge and some years it was very good and some years barely drinkable depending on the temperature of the house and how much wild yeast found its way In with the bread yeast used to make it. 

We dumped boiling water over the berries to kill off the wild yeast. Today I would use cambden tablets if I felt it necessary but I don't. I think the boiling to extract the juice or the steam extractor give it a medicine taste and only do that to make pancake/ice cream syrup or jelly.

When picking for syrup or jelly, I pick them when the berries are still red and firm. For wine/mead I like them black and soft. The birds love the berries and you can expect an onslaught once they start to ripen. Here, there are more berries than birds or bears or raccoons or skunks. By the scat you can see that everyone is eating them in season. The indiians pounded them pits and all into a paste and mixed it with meat and tallow to make pemmican which I have tasted and only tastes good on very cold sub zero days when you are snowshoeing or otherwise playing mountain man or indian. I am sure it kept people from getting scurvy in the winter months.

I am looking forward to rinsing cappings until I get to hydrometer reading 1.125 and adding freshly picked black ripe chokecherries with a half pound of raisins and 10MG of KIV-1116 or RC212. I might make a batch with EC-1118 but it will need put away for about three years before it is any good. Here the drive to the mountains takes longer than the picking. I can fill a five gallon bucket in 45 minutes on a good unharvested patch. You have a month to pick them here. Just keep going higher up the hill.


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## Dale500

Vance G said:


> I have made a lot of wine over the last fity some years. My Grand dad had me making it when I was way too young to drink it. The only caution I would have is that the cherries are small and I would rack it off the fruit quickly after a short fast fermentation or the tannin from the pits can get a bit intense for some. Ten days is good. I pour boiling water over berries to kill critters and go from there. Two gallons of berries is enough for at least six gallons of wine. I am making my first mead with it as soon as the weather turns cooler and my basement stays more stable below seventy.


After 65 years on this earth, I decided to try and make some chokecherry mead wine. I have no idea where to start. Read a lot on-line but still have not found a good recipe that I think I would like. Any help would be greatly appreciated. My email is [email protected] Thanks Dale


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## Arnie

This thread got bumped to the top just in time.
My neighbor has a 'wild' black cherry tree that leans over my fence (probably "planted" by a bird, she doesn't take care of her yard, lucky me) , and this year it's packed with plump black cherries. Not enough for jelly but just right to add flavor and color to a batch of mead.

It's been 12 years since I made any type of homemade wine...long story.... but I have been getting a hankering to make a small batch of mead. 

I was able to pick a little over a pound of cherries; the robins have been on them hard for a few days; and I mixed those cherries with a few raisins. Cooked them at 180 degrees for a little while and added 3 quarts of strained cherry water to a quart of honey. Pitched some Lalvin EC 1118 and away we go.

Let's see what happens. If nothing else it will be a great color.


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## Tenbears

You will have a fast ferment with the 1118. Which tends to inhibit some of the flavor. And I personal do not care for the cooked flavor produces by cooking the fruit. The raisins will add tannin so you should be good there, and honey as a rule brings enough acidity. My only concerns in your recipe is I did not see where you added any yeast nutrients. A lack of nutrients combined with the hard charging 1118 can bring off flavors. In fact nutrient starves fermentations can result in the production of hydrogen sulfides which causes that rotten egg smell and taste. If the fermentation is still going a 1/2 tsp of nutrients would be beneficial.


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## Arnie

Thanks for the advice, Tenbears. I guess I mistakenly thought the raisins would add nutrients. I think I put in too much honey. It might turn out too sweet. I need to get a hydrometer for SG.


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## Tenbears

Arnie said:


> Thanks for the advice, Tenbears. I guess I mistakenly thought the raisins would add nutrients. I think I put in too much honey. It might turn out too sweet. I need to get a hydrometer for SG.


welllllll, I do not think it will be sweet at all. 3 pounds of honey to 3 quarts of water will give you a specific Gravity of around 1.085 to 1.090 which will yield an alcohol by volume (ABV)of between 13 and 14%, EC 1118 can withstand an ABV of 18% so it is sure that the mead will ferment to dryness. But fear not you can back sweeten. Just be sure to use sorbate to prevent re-fermentation. Should have a nice warmth when it goes down. Be sure to age well to ensure smoothness


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## Arnie

If it ferments out dry I think I will prime it with a little sugar or honey before I bottle it so it has a bit of sparkle to it. That and a few years of age and I may have something I can choke down.
Thanks for the help, Tenbears.


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## Vance G

I just samples some chokecherry bochetomel that has been bulk aging a couple years. The melter honey makes a sweeter product because of the unfermentable sugars, I used KIV 1116 so it is not flame thrower fuel but it is very very nice.


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## Tenbears

Vance G said:


> I just samples some chokecherry bochetomel that has been bulk aging a couple years. The melter honey makes a sweeter product because of the unfermentable sugars, I used KIV 1116 so it is not flame thrower fuel but it is very very nice.


Sounds Marvelous. I have a batch Of chokecherry, Black cherry blend aging Now. Fingers crossed.


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## Arnie

That wild cherry mead I started on August 7th fermented fast. I added a pint of water after a week, it fermented to dryness and cleared after about 3 weeks. 

So, Sept. 10th I bottled it with a half teaspoon of sugar per 750ml to give it a tiny bit of sparkle. Hopefully, it won't suffer from not having any bulk aging time.

Now I have to wait 18 months or so. :waiting:


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## Tenbears

What did you bottle in With corks or caps? If you used natural corks they breath a bit and allow for a very slow oxygen infusion which will add some character through slight oxidation during the aging. However adding the sugar for a sparkle will mean Co2 will shield the mead from O2 through the cork. I know, I know! I quite regularly speak of how sensitive meads are to oxidation. But some is necessary so you do not wind up with that sterile meat taste. In most home miseries mead attains ample Oxidation through the process. But with the co2 from sparkle and the lack of bulk aging you may fine That lack luster beef taste. I would pop a cork about 9 months in and see what you have at that point you will know. If you find it is not up to snuff, try decanting it for while before drinking. It sometimes helps. Let us know how it goes.


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## Arnie

I used caps.

You think it would help to open the bottles, let them breathe for an hour or two and re-cap them?


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## Tenbears

No that would only tend to diminish the sparkle. Just let them breath a bit before serving if you do indeed see a problem.


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