# Reusing Equipment After Wax Moths???



## clarekate (Mar 13, 2016)

Hello. I’m heading into my second year of beekeeping and wanted advice on reusing frames that have had minor/moderate wax moth infestation. I ended up combining my two hives going into the winter (after learning about mites, lesson learned!!!) but have two deeps with frames with lots of honey and pollen stores.

I’m in Ohio and stored these in my garage between two telescoping covers, and I thought they would freeze well enough to keep them in good shape for next season. While they were occupied, I didn’t have any noticeable wax moths but it’s clear that they were in there lurking and that the freeze didn’t happen in time. We had some warm weather this weekend so I took the frames out to inspect them and found some light webs, a very few dead moth larvae, and some dusting looking over some cells. There is a sort of tangy smell, for lack of a better way to describe it, like raw honey but just a little “off” somehow, not anything foul smelling just different from hoping a fresh, active hive.

Can I, or should I, still use these? Or should I scrap the frames altogether (I have extras on hand, expecting the make a fair number of mistakes as a beginner!)? I have a deep freezer and can make room to put one deep at a time in there for a while, even though I think that at this point they’ve been frozen at some time, just to be sure. Would the honey/pollen stores still be any good, or could they be affected or go rancid or something if not prepped for storage correctly? I don’t want them to go to waste if the bees will clean them out, but since it’s just two boxes I’d gladly cut my losses then risk harming bees in the spring when I hopefully try to re-split the colony.

Any help and advice is certainly appreciated! I’ll put extra pictures in the comments too. Thanks SO much!


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## clarekate (Mar 13, 2016)




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## clarekate (Mar 13, 2016)




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## Geno (Apr 23, 2015)

Freeze them for 48 hours, store them in garbage bags until spring (sealed tight), then put them in splits or weak colonies next spring. The bees will clean them up and all will be good.


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

That is very minor damage, easily reparable. Freezing them might kill any eggs on the frames, but I'd imagine it would take considerably longer than 48 hours.

I would put them in a strong hive to clean them up. Weak hives have enough trouble of their own.


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

Spray with Bt and be done with them.I spray frames,boxes and tops.They will also eat all your wooden wear if you let them.


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

Freeze if you can but for a longish time. I'd just spray with BT. I don't have the room or time to freeze.


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## clarekate (Mar 13, 2016)

Thanks! I have the space in a freezer since it’s just two boxes to do one at a time, so I can freeze them for at least a month at a time each before spring, probably overkill but thorough.

Okay, follow-up questions (although maybe this should go in a new thread). I currently have one hive with two deeps and one medium (combined going into winter), and I did an inspection on a warm day last moth and it was thriving and had way more bees than I expected to see. I have reserved two queens from a local queen producer (just had some Georgia packages to start last year) for the spring, and my general plan in the spring is to probably squash my current queen (if I can bring myself to do it, haha, or might keep her around in a nuc until I know the new queens have successfully been introduced), split what’s left of my overwintered bees, and introduce the new queens.

Is that the logical way to go about that split and introducing the queens? Wanting to start over with some better genetics and hopefully hit the ground running with some stores, drawn frames, and some lively workers instead of stressed package bees. Would I then use one deep from the overwintered hive plus one of these frozen/stored wax mothy deeps for each of my two new hives? Or would cleaning up these deeps be too much to ask of a newly split and newly requested colony?

Would love to know what some more experienced beekeepers would recommend - thanks!!!


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

I'd make a nuc each with the 2 new queens. In my experience it hasn't always been easy to introduce a new queen into a strong established hive. A weaker split is much more likely to accept a new queen, or at least that's been my experience.

Once the nucs got stronger, you could then split the big hive up and do a newspaper combine on them. I'd definitely keep the old queen and start a nuc with her when you split up the big hive. An extra live queen is always nice to have around. She may not be the genes you currently want but she's better than not having a queen.


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## birddog (May 10, 2016)

In addition i wouldent discount your current bees if there are more in there than you expected it is possible thay boom in the spring and could provide you a lot of resorces to work with ,


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## clarekate (Mar 13, 2016)

Brad Bee, thanks! I ordered two nucs for this season when my club put in a bulk woodenware order, and I need to do some more research and reading into splits and nucs for sure.

Another silly question, and like I said I need to research more into this in general just had this thought, but can my splits be in the same location as my current hive? I’m clearly doing this as a small scale hobby and have a nice little beeyard set up and don’t plan on having many hives this season (though may expand in coming years). I’d like to keep it to the current yard, but how does that work? Will it confuse them?



Brad Bee said:


> I'd make a nuc each with the 2 new queens. In my experience it hasn't always been easy to introduce a new queen into a strong established hive. A weaker split is much more likely to accept a new queen, or at least that's been my experience.
> 
> Once the nucs got stronger, you could then split the big hive up and do a newspaper combine on them. I'd definitely keep the old queen and start a nuc with her when you split up the big hive. An extra live queen is always nice to have around. She may not be the genes you currently want but she's better than not having a queen.


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

I make splits in the same yard quite often. You'll need to put many more bees in the split than you might read on the web or see in videos. Many of the bees will return to their original hive. If I'm making a 3 frame split and leaving it in the original hive, I'll add 3 frames of brood and the bees that are riding on it and I'll add 3 frames of shook bees to the split. Just shake nurse bees off uncapped brood combs into the nuc. The nurse bees will stay with the nuc and the older bees will fly back to their original hive. 

If you leave the split queenless overnight, go through each frame very, very carefully and remove anything that remotely resembles the start of a queen cell. I would suggest leaving the corks in the queen cage, putting her in the split, then going in 3 days later and removing any started queen cells. Then you can remove the cork over the candy and allow the bees to release the queen. If the candy has been eaten, put some marshmallows in the hole. 

The reason I use only capped brood to make splits is that it cuts down on the number of eggs they have to make queen cells from. Even on a fully capped frame, there will usually be a few newly laid eggs that they'll make into queen cells. 

Remember, they'd rather have the queen they raise themselves as the one you stick in their hive. You've got to make certain all queen cells are gone or they won't accept you queen.

Don't let me scare you, a split with a mated queen is as easy to make as a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.


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## clarekate (Mar 13, 2016)

Thanks! Answers about my wax moth equipment and I'll also be bookmarking this thread to refer back to when it's time to make splits/nucs with my new queens. I'm always so appreciative when experienced beekeepers on here take the time to help out newbies - so thanks again


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

I've screwed up enough that when I do recommend something, you can be sure to know I learned that lesson the hard way.


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## JConnolly (Feb 21, 2015)

Never squash a queen in spring or summer unless her daughters are mean, and never before the replacement queen gets established. If she is old and still laying but not up to par then put her in a nuc and let her make brood bombs, frames you transfer to a weak hive to boost it. Keep her going until early fall, then squash and do a newspaper combine.


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## Kenww (Apr 14, 2013)

What strain of Bt is required? Where do you buy it in small qauntities? Bt k is easy to find, but I think I read that it has to be Bt A. I can only find that one in a 40.00 bag.

Does it still work when it's out dated. I have an old bag.

Thanks!



Thanks


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## Geno (Apr 23, 2015)

BTa is the correct strain. Forestry Resources, I think has the fresh packages. Bee careful ordering cheap packages online, they are probably older. $40.00 is what I have used. Outdated, expired will not work. Does nothing to the adult moth, kills the larvae when they consume the beeswax.


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## Spur9 (Sep 13, 2016)

I ordered BTa from Amazon a couple of days ago based on some forum posts. 

https://www.amazon.com/Xentari-XenTari-BT/dp/B004CZ1MOM

Also because they have this on their seller page:

LOT NO: 261-625-PG **FRESH BATCH DIRECT FROM THE MANUFACTURER** ALL EXPIRED INVENTORY HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM AMAZON'S WAREHOUSE AND HAS BEEN REPLACED WITH NEW PRODUCT!! YOU WILL RECEIVE BRAND NEW INVENTORY DIRECT FROM VALENT WITH CORRESPONDING NEW LOT/BATCH NUMBERS!!


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

Kenww said:


> What strain of Bt is required? Where do you buy it in small qauntities? Bt k is easy to find, but I think I read that it has to be Bt A. I can only find that one in a 40.00 bag.
> 
> Does it still work when it's out dated. I have an old bag.
> 
> ...



Btk does work and is listed to kill the exact same pest as Bta.I have used it when I needed some Bt and didnt have the time to wait on Bta being shipped.I have seen its results also.Wax worms hatch and die before they can even get 1/4" long. Btk is way more expensive by the amount you get.Bta you get a package that will last you a long long time.Save your money and get the Bta.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Can I, or should I, still use these? 

Yes. Winter will kill them. Scrape them down and reuse them.


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