# Split a 1st Year Hive?



## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

How much room is left in the hive with the queen cups? I'd be more inclined to think they are replacing a package queen.


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## eltalia (Jun 12, 2017)

Thomas Frazier said:


> This is my first year with TBHs. Got 2 packages of bees with marked Russian queens; although the queen in one hive seems to have been unmarked. In this particular hive, they are building up quickly, lots of bees, lots of everything - capped brood, drone brood, larva, eggs, queen cups, queen cells, you name it... Did not see the queen.
> 
> Actually it's only 3 queen cells. But there seems to be plenty of comb yet. I added two empty bars inside the broodnest two weeks ago; today they are filled out and filled up, so I added two more.
> 
> ...


... a threat? I wouldn't think so, not in that window and not from a TBH colony so soon. But I have only just started mine own TBH so perhaps others comments may hold more value.

Interesting you chose the Russkys, assuming you own experience with them. I'd lean towards thinking that in a TBH it would be an ongoing battle correcting crosscomb, being the lesser bee space the Russkys require and their excuberance in colony building.
Early days but as you have much viable brood happening I would tear down any QC building and keep an eye out for other factors the bees may be looking at in gathering a push to swarm. Be assured they are building QCs for a reason, you just have to figure why as yet.

Cheers.

Bill


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## Thomas Frazier (Aug 25, 2015)

ruthiesbees said:


> How much room is left in the hive with the queen cups? I'd be more inclined to think they are replacing a package queen.


They're about 4 bars from the follower board. I could pull the board and give them about 10 more bars.


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## Thomas Frazier (Aug 25, 2015)

eltalia said:


> Interesting you chose the Russkys, assuming you own experience with them. I'd lean towards thinking that in a TBH it would be an ongoing battle correcting crosscomb, being the lesser bee space the Russkys require and their excuberance in colony building.
> Early days but as you have much viable brood happening I would tear down any QC building and keep an eye out for other factors the bees may be looking at in gathering a push to swarm. Be assured they are building QCs for a reason, you just have to figure why as yet.


Neither hive is giving me any problem with crosscomb. This queen seems to be a layin' machine, but does produce a fair chunk of drones.


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## eltalia (Jun 12, 2017)

Thomas Frazier said:


> Neither hive is giving me any problem with crosscomb. This queen seems to be a layin' machine, but does produce a fair chunk of drones.


Zounds good to go 

Cheers.

Bill


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

The goal of a first year TBH is to get as much comb drawn out as possible (and some filled for winter). I'd pull the follower board so they can continue building.


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## Thomas Frazier (Aug 25, 2015)

Update: I meant to arrange a split, but they swarmed out before I got a chance.. They didn't take up in my swarm trap, so they're gone. 

In the hive, the combs are almost barren, just a few spots of capped brood left. I'm going to give them a bar from the other hive (which is looking great btw). There is also an empty queen cell which had been full - the cap is flapped open as from an orderly exit. So before I panic and order another queen, I'll see if a new one shows up. In another week, I'll panic.

Cheers,


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## Thomas Frazier (Aug 25, 2015)

Another update:

I gave them a bar of eggs and brood, and started feeding. They didn't make a queen cell, and after a week or so all the larvae had been capped. So, I ordered a queen.

New queen was installed on July 28. The recommended method is to give the colony all the time they need to release the queen - as in, don't check for 14 days. But of course, that is easier said than done. I made it 9 days, then took a look. what I found was an empty queen cage, and at least 3 frames full of eggs, larvae, and capped brood. At that point I stopped looking and closed it up.

Based on my command of bee math, they must have released her right away. OK then!

Because numbers and stores are small, I plan to keep feeding for a while. The other hive is doing great, so I'm happy about crossing this hurdle.

Cheers,


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## trishbookworm (Jun 25, 2016)

In a tbh, it is too easy for the bees to get the signal "hive is full" just because of where the honey-brood nest barrier is. I add space at the edge of the brood nest/honey storage - or even a couple inside the brood nest when it is warm like this - to trick them into thinking their hive is bigger. Or maybe to indicate to them in bee language that their hive is bigger. 

About when to split... keep in mind the queen cell needs fed huge amounts without interruption, and she needs a hive that has 10+ bars covered in brood (with those nurse bees) and with lots of foragers bringing in stores. Or several combs of pollen/honey. If you can pull out 10 bars covered in nurse bees and 2-3 bars of stores and still leave enough for the queen to have enough "troops" to support her egg laying.... then you can split. 

Check out Michael Bush's splits page http://www.bushfarms.com/beessplits.htm for a concise and clear summary of your procedure to follow and actual options. What I described above is how you know if your hive has enough population to split safely, not necessarily the best way to split.

I don't split this time of year (though many do successfully here) because then I have to feed copiously so the bees can both draw out enough comb and fill them with honey despite the break in the supply of workers. ALso this time of year the winter bees are being born - the less they have to forage or raise baby bees, the longer they live through the winter. If they have a lot of big sisters to do the chores, they are more likely to be able to stay strong and untapped.

So in your shoes I would constantly feed 2 quart jars of 1:1 syrup, like 3 times a week, and I would seriously consider bringing a lot of brood from another hive (assuming they have to spare), so each has 10 bars or so of brood. Then I would be very careful to keep an empty bar in the brood section every 5 days (they will fill at least 1 bar in 5 days, possibly 2 if feeding, so offer space accordingly) so they don't crowd the queen of laying space and prevent enough bees from being born.


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## Thomas Frazier (Aug 25, 2015)

Thanks for your comments Trish.

I wasn't thinking of splitting now - the time to split was back in the first week of July, when the hive was booming and they were building queen cells. I did try putting empty bars in the brood area - the bees just ignored them. Maybe a better plan would have been to take a new partial comb from the far end, and put that in the brood area. Harder for the bees to ignore actual comb. Maybe next year...

As for now, I'm feeding and she's laying. I'll go through both hives this weekend and see if donating a bar looks feasible. 

Cheers,


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