# Oxalic acid Dribble



## Tibbigt (Mar 17, 2017)

Hi everyone question I am about to do a Oxalic acid dribble sometime this month. Temps will range from 20’s to mid 30’s probably. Would love to do it on a warm day but might not get one.


Question 1. Do I need to remove insulation after applying from the inside lid or off the sides of the hive?

2. Do I need to plug up entrances or anything if so how long?

3. Can I add it to the top brood box if there is bees up there or should it always be lower box? 

Any other help would be appreciated


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## Tibbigt (Mar 17, 2017)

Bump anyone?


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

I've used the dribble method for the past couple years as my only treatment, and I now have to say that I don't like it. It seems to be hard on the bees and it does not do a good enough mite kill for me. However, to answer your questions...

1) No
2) No
3) Yes.


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## Tibbigt (Mar 17, 2017)

RayMarler said:


> I've used the dribble method for the past couple years as my only treatment, and I now have to say that I don't like it. It seems to be hard on the bees and it does not do a good enough mite kill for me. However, to answer your questions...
> 
> 1) No
> 2) No
> 3) Yes.


When u say hard on the bees do U mean u see lots of dead? I just don’t know what else to put on them during cold months everything seems to be temperature sensitive. 

I got quick strips but can’t do that right now and I’m seeing a good bit of mites in the pull out drawer. Probably around 20+ mites everytine I look at it.

Any other suggestions I can use during cold months? I also wanna try the sugar method would rather not use to many chemicals


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

Yep, sounds like you need a treatment. Do the dribble.

I don't see die-off from it immediately. I've read it can be hard on queens. I've read it can be hard on bees. I've read it can be hard on the bees exoskeleton. Some reports don't say it's hard on bees. 

I've found that over a short period of time the bees reduce in populations, but don't see dead bees. I've lost a couple queens in a short period of time after using it. None of my findings are scientifically sound. I am just saying that from my experience over the last couple years, I don't trust it. Keep in mind, I used it multiple times throughout the year, not just one time in winter as you are doing, which is the recommended way to use it BTW.

You can read much more about it at Randy Oliver's website, he's done a lot of research and testing using it... ScientificBeekeeping.com


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

Randy Oliver has good things to say about the Dribble here...

http://scientificbeekeeping.com/oxalic-dribble-tips/

My experiences may not be accurate to what others have found. I just don't trust it myself, that does not mean that it is not a good treatment to use. When I first started using it, I was impressed. Over time I've changed my mind, for using it as my only treatment.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

The best time period to apply a single wintertime OA dribble treatment would be when the colony is nearly broodless. In our areas that would have probably been sometime between Thanksgiving and Christmas. The hive may have already started brooding again, which means that any mites under cappings now will not be impacted by the dribble treatment. 

You may want to consider investing in OA Vaporizing equipment and do a series of treatments to clean up the hive. If not, the dribble can't hurt until you get into weather later on that's in the proper temperate range for MAQS.


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## Tibbigt (Mar 17, 2017)

Mike Gillmore said:


> The best time period to apply a single wintertime OA dribble treatment would be when the colony is nearly broodless. In our areas that would have probably been sometime between Thanksgiving and Christmas. The hive may have already started brooding again, which means that any mites under cappings now will not be impacted by the dribble treatment.
> 
> You may want to consider investing in OA Vaporizing equipment and do a series of treatments to clean up the hive. If not, the dribble can't hurt until you get into weather later on that's in the proper temperate range for MAQS.


Yeah I am just trying to get by till I can treat with something stronger so to speak. And I’ll do the dribble no sense in spending $100 on something when I can spend $2 and get the job done lol. Unless someone can tell me why is would be better to vaporize


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## Fivej (Apr 4, 2016)

If you feel you have a lot of mites, do the dribble now. Yes, vaporization is better so invest in a wand for future treatments, but do the dribble now. J


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## Tibbigt (Mar 17, 2017)

Fivej said:


> If you feel you have a lot of mites, do the dribble now. Yes, vaporization is better so invest in a wand for future treatments, but do the dribble now. J


Just wondering what makes the vaporizing better? Just so I can try and get myself to want spend the money. 

I’m in for an expensive year I need 2-3 more supers per hive and right now I’m at 5 hives looking to split them if possible this year also.

So I’m In need of atleast 10-15 supers not sure my splits would need supers first yr.


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

Vaporizing is easier on the bees because they don't eat any of the OA-laced material like they may do when doing a dribble with OA in sugar syrup.

You can do a dribble in colder temps than a vaporizing. The bottom temp for OAV is 37F, and even then much below 42F I don't always get great vapor propagation within the hive.

Dribble is done up here in northern NY (a single treatment when they are broodless) often just at freezing or a bit below. I, personally, am not comfortable with the multiple dribbles needed when there is brood. That's when I think you are possibly risking harm. But I expect your bees already have brood, so a single tx is probably not going to do much for you. You have to treat every seam of bees, so if they are in both boxes, you'll have to dribble each seam, in each box.

Up here people hang Apivar strips in their hives as early as March. I don't use Apivar, but I think it can be used in quite cold temps. And it takes a long time, and there is a black-out period after removing before supering, so that's why they start so early. Although it takes awhile to finish, it starts killing mites at once, and keeps killing them as they emerge from the safety of being under cappings.

Is there a bee club near you? Perhaps you can find someone willing to come and treat your hives three or four times with OAV starting now. I have done series of OAV tx at this time of year without harming bees. The main issue is getting days above the min. temp that are roughly on schedule. Or you could consider getting a wand, which will give you an excellent tool for many mite situations (but not all of them - it's not the most effective when there is a lot of brood, and you can't use it when you have honey supers on.) But the most important thing is that you can do an OAV treatment in Dec. when the hive is broodless. This radically changes the dynamic of the mite population for at least six months in the north. It's the biggest bang for the treatment cost (not meaning the cost of materials, or equipment, but the _biological cost to the bees.)_ 

You will need a wand ($100-165), a battery (any old one that can hold a charge for the time needed to treat) , and the proper personal protective gear which is a mask with ACID GAS canisters ($35-50), and goggles for your eyes ($5). Plus OA, from the hardware store. Less than $10 for a canister of Savogran Wood Bleach made from pure oxalic acid will provide hundreds of treatments - it will get damp and stale before you use it all up. (You can clean up your deck with the stuff that's gets too old for bee-treating.)

Randy has lots of good info, but he's in CA, so his experiences may not be the same as ours here in the NE, particularly in still-cold weather. If you can't swing OAV, then I think I would do a single OA dribble and then pop some Apivar in a bit later on when it gets a bit warmer. And save your pennies and get an OAV wand as soon as you possibly can. Maybe you could find a nearby beek who wants to go-halves with you on one? It's an easy thing to share.

Good luck - and huge props to you to be checking on the mites even in the winter! I bug my students to do that all the time, with only mixed success.

Nancy


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