# Prices of nucs - shockingly wide variation



## Davacoles (Jun 30, 2013)

Folks in our area were discussing the price of nucs (basically what is locally being charged). I looked online to do some research and saw a lot of variation. What shocked me though is the prices some companies are charging. For example, this site is selling nucs for $249, not including shipping. And, they are sold out for some delivery weeks already! I've only been doing this for a year, but this seems really rather expensive. Thoughts?


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## Dominic (Jul 12, 2013)

These guys are organic. And these are 5-frame nucs. Worth it? You'd have to ask their former clients, I guess. Are they going there because it's the only local supplier and shipping is too expensive/risky? Are they going there because they like the product? Might also depend on your local legislation: I suspect that in some countries, in order to produce organic honey, one must buy organic nucs.

There's also variability in their product:



> Our five frame NUCs will be sold this spring and summer for $249.00 (the prices are subject to change at any time), sold with 5 frames of bees, brood, and honey in a portable nuc box.
> Five frame nuc with bees and laying queen. One or two frames of honey, two frames of brood, one or two new frames.


Also, not sure how much I'd like to be publicly displayed on their website, as a customer... They must be doing something right, though, for people to pay that price.


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

4 frame nucs $105 with frame exchange.

https://huntsville.craigslist.org/grd/4300740043.html

5 frame nucs $100

https://hattiesburg.craigslist.org/grd/4284275148.html


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## tank (Jun 20, 2013)

Ha ha look on ebay if i remember i saw a nuke for like 600 with shipping i thine a 3lb package for like 380 with shipping. I would sell every bee i owned for half that


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Dava,
My thought is that someone has to be the most expensive or the price will be depressed. If one outlet can get an outrageously high price for something that means there is room for price growth. A supplier will never know what they could have sold a product for until they get turned down.

It's a good time to be a supplier and not a buyer. Our maladies have been a benefit of sorts, by bringing attention to our vocation. Having bees is sexy, it's en vogue these days. So some of what you see in prices is someone taking advantage of those picking up on the latest fad.

Overall I see this as a good thing.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

For the most part I think you are looking at a situation that would be comparable to price comparisons between a store and a garage sale. I think it might level out some if you compare suppliers to suppliers and the local fella that has a couple extra nucs to the other fella with a couple extra nucs. You may get a nuc locally for $50 simply because the beekeeper need $50 to buy what he wants. But I would not want to plan building an apiary on such luck. Anyone can get great deals if they are willing to get what they can get when they can get it.

What do you do when you get your great deal home find it has a dud queen and the local guy doesn't have any way to help you? Do you really want to go shopping for deals from local guys when what you need is 150 nucs?

Just eh price of a nuc does not tell the whole story. sometimes you are paying for more than the nuc.

I have seen this $250 nuc mentioned before. I think it is someone that is a little to proud of their bees in this case. but people are buying them. maybe I should raise my prices.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

How many are being sold at the highest price?
If you put a really high price on a nuc, it probably doesn't matter whether you sell it or not because you will make a crop of honey from it.
The price at which one sells a nuc is often dependent on how much honey the nuc seller can make from that nuc and how much they can sell that honey for. So, if I have a nuc which I can make 60 lbs of honey off of and I can sell that honey for $3.00 per pound, then that nuc is worth at least $180.00, right?


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## Dominic (Jul 12, 2013)

sqkcrk said:


> How many are being sold at the highest price?
> If you put a really high price on a nuc, it probably doesn't matter whether you sell it or not because you will make a crop of honey from it.
> The price at which one sells a nuc is often dependent on how much honey the nuc seller can make from that nuc and how much they can sell that honey for. So, if I have a nuc which I can make 60 lbs of honey off of and I can sell that honey for $3.00 per pound, then that nuc is worth at least $180.00, right?


Close enough. Between 180$ off a nuc and 180$ off honey, I'd rather sell a nuc, personally. Less risk, less operating costs. Between the time the colony is nuc-worthy and the time 60lb of honey is produced, a lot of things could happen, such as mites, skunks, bears, constant bad weather, pesticide killoffs, swarming, absconding, queen loss, equipment breakage, etc.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Well sure, so would I. All I am saying is that if one is in a position in which it doesn't matter whether you sell a nuc or not, because you can make a crop of honey, setting a high price is simply prudent. Seems economically foolish in a way to sell a nuc for less than what you can make from a crop of honey.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

I have heard reports of the $50 nucs too - i've never had a chance to buy one though. The ones that I could have actually bought were more like $125-$135 and honestly not very high quality. I'm hoping to sell a few for the first time this year - but not cheap. No pre orders - when they are ready (if they are ready) they will either sell or I'll try to make honey with them. But I've yet to run into anyone in my area who got stuck with unsold bees of any kind.


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## Isaac Colvin (Mar 7, 2012)

sqkcrk said:


> How many are being sold at the highest price?
> If you put a really high price on a nuc, it probably doesn't matter whether you sell it or not because you will make a crop of honey from it.
> The price at which one sells a nuc is often dependent on how much honey the nuc seller can make from that nuc and how much they can sell that honey for. So, if I have a nuc which I can make 60 lbs of honey off of and I can sell that honey for $3.00 per pound, then that nuc is worth at least $180.00, right?



Works even better when you can get between $8 and $10 per pound from direct sales.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

Davacoles said:


> I've only been doing this for a year, but this seems really rather expensive. Thoughts?


For those who have never produced nucs, priced at $125.00 to $249.00 this is a lot of money. But, lets compare. At a labor rate of $40.00 per hour, ( not all that much in todays business world) that nuc for labor alone is, only 4 to 6 hours. This price does not include the value of a new queen, nuc container, frames, sugar syrup, or a fraction for your equipment, machinery, insurance,. The splitting of the nucs, movement, feeding, transferring to other containers, and the first thing you know you have more than 4 to 6 hours in the nuc.

I know it is a large price, but I don't know very many beekeepers selling nucs, getting rich fast. If it was that easy, and profitable, everyone would be in it.

cchoganjr


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

But you would not make $180 from the honey. because it requires more work more investment. more costs and more equipment to get to that 30 lbs of honey. if you get their at all. So I will pay your $180 for a nuc based upon what it can make. but you have to agree to pay for the hive I will transfer it to. the extraction, bottles, labels, and caps i need to bottle it up. and then you have to market it for me until it is sold.

I actually have a better idea of how to sell nucs your way. You give me the nuc I keep it until next November and you get any profit I have made off it. My first nuc I would have gotten 30 lbs of honey form had I been prepared to harvest it. I cannot say I will be as motivated to tend to this nuc as I was the one I would benefit from. but hey who knows. it may make you top dollar in nuc sales. You want the profit. you will also pay the risk.

If it where me knowing my track record I would go for the second season plan though. the one that I make 120 lbs of honey and sell it at $15 a lb. Now that puts a jingle in your pocket. And yes I did that. Cost would make your wallet pucker up though. Got something in the neighborhood of $400 per hive to get that honey marketed? That is what it will take and then some.

So it is not even close to think you making up a 5 frame nuc is worth $180 much less the $1800 I have managed to make from one this past year alone. It takes quite a bit more than that to coax that money out of a hive.


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## D Semple (Jun 18, 2010)

And if he has a bunch of new beeks with lots of questions buying his nucs he may not be over charging.

PIA factor regards


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## lazy shooter (Jun 3, 2011)

If you're a commercial beekeeper,or even a sideliner, the higher the price of bees the greater is your asset. All of you, for profit beekeepers should hope that nuc prices go higher. In reality, anything is worth the price it will bring. To the many of us hobbyist, that never intend to sell a product, the price of a DESIRABLE nuc may be much different than the economic worth of a nuc. I want to make few hundred pounds of honey to give to charities and friends. If I think that a $250.00 nuc will produce more honey than a $125.00 nuc, then the extra money is not a "deal breaker." Of course, there is a limit to how much premium I would pay. I think there are more hobbyists than many of you realize.


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

Cleo C. Hogan Jr said:


> I know it is a large price, but I don't know very many beekeepers selling nucs, getting rich fast. If it was that easy, and profitable, everyone would be in it.
> 
> cchoganjr


That's for sure, first thing you need to be able to do is get bees through the winter, and get them through in good shape, not an easy task, especially this year. Or like some do, take your bees south for the winter and make up early nucs from them down there and bring them back up north to sell in April. Not many small timers can do that. So, I don't see it as being so easy either.


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## sterling (Nov 14, 2013)

Dominic said:


> Close enough. Between 180$ off a nuc and 180$ off honey, I'd rather sell a nuc, personally. Less risk, less operating costs. Between the time the colony is nuc-worthy and the time 60lb of honey is produced, a lot of things could happen, such as mites, skunks, bears, constant bad weather, pesticide killoffs, swarming, absconding, queen loss, equipment breakage, etc.


And a lot of good things can happen. A great flow, early brood rearing weather, no swarms. You sell the nuc you are through. you keep the nuc sell the honey $180 you have your money and still have the hive. split the hive after you harvest the honey. sell a couple nucs for$180 ea.= $360. and next year sell more honey make more splits. You can't do that if you sell the nuc first.


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## THALL (Apr 6, 2010)

Not all nucs are created equal. (Speaking from my local here in NH) There is a big difference between nucs that have seen a winter as to those that are made up with some brood and given a queen and set aside for a few weeks then sold. Its almost like shopping for a used car


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

the market for nucs gets a little soft after the honey harvest, most folks want them before the main honey flow. i turned down a few nuc sales last year because i felt it was too late, and advised the buyers to let me take the risk on getting them overwintered.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

That makes sense peg. A colony of bees in the Spring should be worth a lot more than that same colony of bees in the Fall. (Oh, I'm sorry. I meant spring and fall.) To me it's almost like the value a new car and the value of that new car once you drive it off the lot. Two different things.

The spring nuc has potential, whereas the fall nuc has produced it's potential and now has its largest population of varroa mites that need treating and a winter to get through.

A colony of bees has always been worth more in April than in October. A nuc also.


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## westernbeekeeper (May 2, 2012)

I sell quite a few nucs each spring, and people willingly pay $170 each for them.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

westernbeekeeper said:


> I sell quite a few nucs each spring, and people willingly pay $170 each for them.


nice ben. is that 4 or 5 frames?


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## westernbeekeeper (May 2, 2012)

5-frame


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

I'm getting $130 for a nuc in June but then again I'm all sold out. So I've obviously under-priced my nucs.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

westernbeekeeper said:


> I sell quite a few nucs each spring, and people willingly pay $170 each for them.


Ben just raised his price on his nucs this year. A 'Bloody Good Special" I think he calls it 
He's charging more to pay for medical treatment and a router blade that doesn't bite.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Shouldn't the price of nucleus colonies be based, in some way, on the price of packages? 

I see GA packages are $80 from the producer this year. $115 from the re-seller by the time they get to Massachusetts.
How much is a frame of brood worth? $20? A frame of honey? 6 pounds x $2 equals $12 + $2 for the frame equals $14. And an empty comb $5?

So a five frame nuc with 3 brood and a honey and an empty comb is $79, plus 3 pounds of bees @ $80 in Georgia and $115 in Massachusetts meant that nucleus colonies should be worth at least $159 in Georgia and $194 in Massachusetts.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

I'm selling overwintered five frame nucs for $200. this year. I will easily sell out. 
But I offer a different product than they can get just 'anywhere'. 
Here is some of what I post on my facebook page:


2014 NUCS
Miller Compound HoneyBees & Agriculture
253-843-1319

2014 Washington Bred & Raised Nucs require a $50.00 deposit per nuc to hold your place on the list. 
This is a "First Come First Serve" list. Those that sign up and pay deposit first, will get the earliest available nucs.

Your deposit of $50.00 is not refundable, UNLESS I CANNOT DELIVER.

Due to the nature of the bees being an agricultural product that is weather dependent, I can not guarantee I will have enough nucs for sale to accommodate everyone that signs up and cannot guarantee a specific date of availability. 
If I don't have enough bees to fill your order, you will promptly receive your deposit refund if you do not get your nuc by June 2014. 

I expect to have some overwintered nucs available as early as April, most overwintered nucs sometime in May. 

Overwintered nucs (Five full deep frames or 6 shallow frames) are $200. each Summer nucs with 2014 newly mated queen be available in June & July.

You have the option of purchasing extra frames of bees, brood and feed with the overwintered nucs- $35.00 each deep frame. 

Nucs are sold in cardboard transport box's. ( for nucs larger that 5 frames, You'll need to bring you own larger box for transport) 

My bees are only Washington overwintered bees. My bees, queens and frames of comb have NEVER been exposed to commercial crops or the pollination industry. No fumagillin or antibiotics...ever.

In summer and fall of 2013, I used Brood breaks and VSH Genetics to control mites, with only occasional use of State approved Apivar mite strips in some cases. 

We raise only Carniolan Hybrids with a genetic background originating from Glenn Apiaries II VSH Carniolan breeders and Wild genetics collected from surrounding areas of Mt. Rainier. Most of our bees are dark. We occasionally get blond queens, but they are still the same genetic background. 

You are welcome to inspect your nuc before you take it home. I will show you the queen before you leave. All queens are marked.
(Price of nucs includes 30 minutes of instillation instruction if you are a beginner)

Since I am limited on the amount of bees I can sell, I strongly urge you to have a back up plan for bees, should I not be able to fill your order. 

Bees shipped in from California are generally cheaper than Washington bred and raised bees.
I urge you to shop around before making your decision and understand the differences between these options.










I forfeit a lot of my honey crop and the income from pollination services to produce this product. But it is _because_ of that they sell so well.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

I am seeing packages from Ca. advertised for $159.00. locally. Some are selling the queen seperate from the package for an additional 59.99, which is wierd. 

Some suppliers and clubs in the area have not touched bases yet this year with their suppliers in CA, and seem unaware of the drought conditions and difficulties there. I fear they are going to get an unwelcome surprise when they do check.


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

Laurie, minor quip. Apiaries spelling in "We raise only Carniolan Hybrids with a genetic background originating from Glenn Apiries II VSH"


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

Lauri said:


> I am seeing packages from Ca. advertised for $159.00. locally. Some are selling the queen seperate from the package for an additional 59.99, which is wierd.
> 
> Some suppliers and clubs in the area have not touched bases yet this year with their suppliers in CA, and seem unaware of the drought conditions and difficulties there. I fear they are going to get an unwelcome surprise when they do check.



Whoever is shocked sure hasn't been following my posts. I been on this like hot on snot for a month already. As we swim into uncharted territories I have no clue how queen production is going to occur. The take rate will be low. Quality will be worse and availability like trying to find a hair on my bald head... There but rare. 

At the queen breeders meeting I brought it up but everyone I asked thought they could outwit the problems. When it comes to producing queens a great spring NATURAL pollen flow combined with some nectar trickling in is what is required and can not be faked. I don't care who says what. Cant be done!!!!!! Everyone who gets one of those $200 packages in April better be prepared for a piece of junk..... 

As one who is producing and selling them I don't say this with a smirk at all. I personally think many people would be better served sitting out this year. Better than complaining latter about what they are scheduled to receive if they even get it. Don't honestly see many other options under the conditions we have currently. Anyone who reads this and has a minute bit of faith in the effectiveness of prayer should join me in a humble call for rain for California. HELP!!!!


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Fusion_power said:


> Laurie, minor quip. Apiaries spelling in "We raise only Carniolan Hybrids with a genetic background originating from Glenn Apiries II VSH"


I totally missed that. Thanks.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Honey-4-All said:


> Whoever is shocked sure hasn't been following my posts.




I've been paying attention. I have been warning folks to not only have back up plans for bees, but they'd better plant a vegetable garden this year too. 
Sorry the Calif. weather has been so rough for you. I read about your difficulties. 

I am not that far from you and seriously wonder about the drought conditions eventually extending up to Wa. It's been drier and slightly milder here than normal the last few years. But very pleasant and a just little less muddy in the pastures. Extreme weather one way or the other is never fun. 



















Price of tomatoes may be $5.99 # *IF* you can get them. Better grow a few. If you don't have the ground grow them in a pot.










Too bad that isn't the queen going back into the mating nuc. Would have made a good photo. Raspberries look yummy though.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

That photo w/ your hand behind the tomato is like when fishermen hold their catch at arms length right in front of them so the fish is closer to the camera making it seem larger, right?


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

sqkcrk said:


> That photo w/ your hand behind the tomato is like when fishermen hold their catch at arms length right in front of them so the fish is closer to the camera making it seem larger, right?


LOL, I am actually holding it, not totally behind it. That was Porterhouse tomato from Burpee seed. I really _was_ that big.

This photo is Celebrity. Those are quart jars behind the tomatoes:










The benefits of growing your own food. BLT on a Jalapeno/cheese bagel:


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## woodsy (Mar 3, 2013)

Getting 2 overwintered 4 frame Carniolan nucs for $120 each from a reputable local Apiary .
There is also a refundable $20 ea. hold and nuc box return fee.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Lauri said:


> LOL, I am actually holding it, not totally behind it. That was Porterhouse tomato from Burpee seed. I really _was_ that big.
> 
> This photo is Celebrity. Those are quart jars behind the tomatoes:
> 
> ...


Yer cruel.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

woodsy said:


> There is also a refundable $20 ea. hold and nuc box return fee.


Instead of building a bunch of wood transport box's, I have thought about building some screened bottoms and tops for customers to borrow. Using their _*own box*_ I could help them load the nuc into it, show them the queen and they could take it home and just lift the box onto their bottom board. No queens getting rolled right off the bat. Deposit required of course and would only be practical for those that live close by.
Here is my swarm transport box. It wouldn't be as fancy, but would be secure, functional and have excellent ventilation for those ticked off confined bees. It's amazing how much heat they can generate.



















When I collect a swarm like this, I get home and usually let them sit overnight confined in a cool place, then the next morning just lift the box off the bottom onto my bench and onto a new bottom board. It is super quick and easy.

Obviously, I am _not_ selling hundreds of nucs. I do dislike the 5 frame nuc box's though To easy for the inexperienced to roll the queen when they are full of bees.


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## Snookie (Dec 13, 2013)

Lauri said:


> Instead of building a bunch of wood transport box's, I have thought about building some screened bottoms and tops for customers to borrow. Using their _*own box*_ I could help them load the nuc into it, show them the queen and they could take it home and just lift the box onto their bottom board. No queens getting rolled right off the bat. Deposit required of course and would only be practical for those that live close by.
> Here is my swarm transport box. It wouldn't be as fancy, but would be secure, functional and have excellent ventilation for those ticked off confined bees. It's amazing how much heat they can generate.
> 
> 
> ...


Son of a Biscuit eater, I like dat me:}

You just gave me a great idea...thank U!


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

Lauri, I'm shaking my head at porterhouse and celebrity. Here are some good flavored tomatoes.

Kelloggs Breakfast









Kosovo









Marianna's Peace









Little Lucky (about 2.5 to 3 inches diameter)









Brandywine and Marianna's Peace, larger fruit are Brandywine









Tastiheart sliced and bitten. After all, what good is a tomato if you can't eat it!









And just in case we get too far off topic, I did a very informal survey yesterday. The average price of a 5 frame spring nuc is $150 and the average price of queens is $25. There are queens available in large quantities as low as $17 each and a few places are pushing them up to $40. The only queens from commercial suppliers that went above $40 were breeding stock.

There is a serious risk that queens in mid-summer will be in short supply given the drought in California. But for now, there is no shortage. We will see what happens in 3 months.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Brandywine?

You are a long way from me in Alabama.
With the weather extremes all over the USA, From the Polar Vortex to the Drought in Calif, I expect, as this OP suggests, there will be a wide range of differences. I'm sure the price and availability of bees and queens will be exceptionally regional this year.
Don't underestimate Mann Lake getting into the game. They will remove a lions share of available packages from the Pacific Northwest which, in addition to the drought conditions will likely cause massive shortages.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Last year I wrote a little about increasing my nuc production, in part because the price of sugar had dropped. Someone very experienced told me to _SELL SELL SELL_, or I was just running a hobby that was out of control.
I had to laugh. That is _so _not me.
_*I kept them all.*_

I also did this:
http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...n-overwintering-40-mating-nucs-on-mini-frames

Now ask me if I am in good shape this year?

NOW it is time to sell and recoop some of my investment $$. I've spent a lot of money out of pocket building my program here. This year it is time to equalize a little. 
But every nuc I sell, _could_ have been used for rearing queens, which are always in demand, especially this year. I will sell some nucs, but not tons. I could make just about as much money using those resources for queeen rearing and _still _have those resources (Which have increased significantly) in the end, to overwinter yet another year. 
Yes, I would have to feed them and overwinter them. They overwinter beautifuly and I don't mind the work. The benefits are worth it.

Preperation for future production still outweighs current sales. I'm not in it to make money right off the bat. Building inventory, establishing an excellent Northern genetic program and being self- sustaining come first. 



















I'm still small time..but making progress. 

I'm just showing you this because _* if you totally depend on retail sources you are leaving yourself in a vulnerable position*_. 
You don't have to be on a large scale to have some back up resources.


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## DPBsbees (Apr 14, 2011)

I'll be most likely selling some nucs this year for $155. That's if they leave with it in a Jester EZ Nuc. I'll give them $15 back if they return it, or charge $140 if I install it in their equipment. I plan to sell these to club members using the cells that we will be raised by the club.


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## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

Michael Palmer said:


> Shouldn't the price of nucleus colonies be based, in some way, on the price of packages?
> 
> I see GA packages are $80 from the producer this year. $115 from the re-seller by the time they get to Massachusetts.
> How much is a frame of brood worth? $20? A frame of honey? 6 pounds x $2 equals $12 + $2 for the frame equals $14. And an empty comb $5?
> ...


MP, Your right on the money. Then why to all of us comm. beekeepers sell for so cheap. 
As a package dealer, I'm asked why I charge $20-25 a package to bring it north. I tell them to call a supplier and see if you can order a package this year. When they call back to order, they say they can get them, but it won't be until late May- early June. Who wants to pay $80 for a package in late May.:scratch:


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

We sell so cheap because we wouldn't want to pay as much ourselves. We charge so little because we might be ashamed to charge more. People are funny. I know guys who charge high prices and don't care if they sell very many because they make so much profit on what they do sell. And people look down their noses at them for being good businessmen. People are funny. Yet there are some people selling honey for $15.00/lb. Or saying they do.


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## woodsy (Mar 3, 2013)

Looks like the price for 3lb. Italian packages/italian queen from Ga. is $105 here this year from a local seller, up $10 i think from last year.
The local overwintered nuc for $120 sounds like a better deal.


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## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

If your dealer only raised there price $10. They haven't increase much of there profit % this year. Most years supplier increase $2-3 a package and this year $8-10. Which is probably a little high with the honey increase this year. If you make a 60 lb avg at $.20-.30 a lb. increase, that would be $12-18 increase for honey this year. My #'s are basis on wholesale pricing. When you are looking at the retail side. Retail prices when up 20-25% and bees only when up 9-12% .


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

I've thought about this a bit and I think Lauri and others are wrong re prices of bees this year. Here is why.

Almond pollination is going to hit over the next 6 weeks. Once almonds are over, and presuming the CA drought continues, there will be a boatload of beekeepers who will have to get out of California with their bees. These beekeepers may never have moved their bees out of CA before, but the drought will force them to either move the bees or feed them at a loss. They can either move them to honey production yards in other states, or split out and sell nucs and/or colonies of bees in some combination. This means there will be a huge number of colonies coming out of California. So what do you think happens when 500,000 or more colonies of bees come on the market after almonds? Prices may plummet!

Where will there be a problem? Well, availability of bees is not going to be an issue, but availability of queens may be. If CA queen production is seriously compromised, that will put a huge demand on other queen producers primarily in the SouthEast. I can already see evidence of queen breeders who are going to go all out to produce as many queens as possible this year to meet that demand. Prices may rise a bit on queens, but I think there will be plenty on the market.


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## theriverhawk (Jun 5, 2009)

The earlier Craigslist ad in Huntsville, AL(Lacy's Spring, AL) is mine. I sell 4 frame nucs with a frame exchange for $105. I used to sell 5 frame nucs and you kept the plywood nuc box for $135. Sure, I made more money on the 5 frame nucs but the time to build the box, draw out the 5th frame, extra sugar water, etc made it more costly in the end. It's just easier to take a 2 frame split, put in a new queen and have them draw out 2 additional frames. I, also, am no longer spending the time to make the boxes. 

I sell 30-40 a year. I could sell over 100 if I wanted. I get that many calls. And it doesn't matter the price. I started off at $120 for the 5 frame nuc and realized real quick that I wasn't charging enough based other sellers in the area and state. 

Why do I sell nucs instead of honey? My father used to say, "There's no money in honey for the small guy." It's true. The hours put in for harvesting honey and the cost of equipment is just too high for me. Nucs, outside of new frames and sugar water for build up, are more profitable for me. Money isn't coming in $8 at a time but is instead all at once, too. I'm just a "sideliner" I guess. I run 25-30 hives a year, sell nucs from these splits and sell a little honey just cause folks want to buy it. If I didn't have a "real job", there is not doubt that I would choose "selling bees" over selling honey for a majority of my income. The demand for bees is just that high. Sure, I'd have to do some things differently, but, for me, it would be a heck of a lot easier than honey. 

One added bonus of selling bees is that I am able to go treatment free. Because I am making splits and replacing queens so often, I am outbreeding the mites. Did a couple of OA vapor treatments in all my hives early fall just to see what dropped. Virtually mite free drop in each of them.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

sqkcrk said:


> We sell so cheap because we wouldn't want to pay as much ourselves.


As Pogo said, "I resemble that remark."

cchoganjr


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Yer showing yer age Cleo.


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

If you got it, flaunt it.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Getting that 5th frame drawn out _is_ a problem.

New spring nucs go into 8 frame deeps now. Plenty of room for frame feeder and growth. By mid summer they are in doubles, even starting with just three frames. I just use a follower board to start. They get a gallon of syrup to start and after the virgin is back for good, they get a new frame on each side and another gallon of syrup. Once she is laying, a protien patty. About that time the flow is starting and they just take off in growth.

Ya, people ask me that all the time. ' Why have honey bees if you don't sell honey?' They get this screwed up look on their face. I think sometimes they actually think I am lying, LOL.

I am a woman in my mid fifties. I am not as strong as a man and have no employees. The queen rearing I CAN do. It is where my interest lies and it's what I'm good at. I don't wish to compete against everyone and their brother selling honey. 
But It may soon progress to that point, I am getting a heck of a lot of surplus honey. But for now I am making my increases with it. 

Below is a current wintertime photo of a 'Nuc'. I still call them nucs, but they are 7 over 8, Started from three frames in late May 2013:










Photo below is sometime in June. Here you see the virgin and three frames have a successfully mated return, are growing nicely. Still have new undrawn frames on the edge and the feeder, which I leave in all summer weather I use it or not. It will get used in late summer/fall to some degree depennding on the fall flow situation.










I saw your post Fusion Power. I have no doubt you are right. There may bee a number of people getting 'rid' of their bees after pollination. Like Honey 4 All said..good luck with that.

Lets hope for everyones sake the situation in Calif changes and they get the rain they need (Gradually though) No need for flooding with that rock hard ground. Therere is a lot of vegitation that can seemingly bounce back overnight once it gets the water it needs.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

That picture is a lot like one that I use to illustrate what is meant by "strong" in beekeepereese. Coincidentally they both show sugar feed. I'm starting to believe that the main thing wrong with how i feed is that i don't do enough of it. Hard to argue with the results - but some do of course.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

David, that feeder was left in overwinter because I didn't have any drawn frames to replace it with. I am not feeding syrup now. 
Those fortified sugar blocks work like magic. 

When I was raising horses, I had a book called "Feeding To Win" Thats the way I manage my bees. I don't just _feed_ them, I feed them at precise times with nutrition in mind to manipulate them to do what I want . Peaking at the right times, never letting the queen shut down completely during extended periods of dearth, which leads to a high volume of young healthy bees in fall. This carries me easily through the long inactive period of winter in the Northern Pacific Northwest. The result is a strong hive that is resistant to disease and pests. The volume of bees and volume of honey is a by product of this management.

Say you start at A and the end result goal is F. 
Most people go from A to F quickly, overlooking the importaince of the steps B,C,D,and E.
I don't think or worry about F. I care about the steps in between. The results are reliable. I have done my job, which allows the bees to do theirs.. In the end, I have my products..no matter if it's honey, bees or increases.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

you may not like paying the higher prices. but my bet is you do anyway. and charging less does not really change that. It just makes it harder to pay when the time comes. I do not set prices. but it is by business to have some idea where they are set. taking less than what they are worth is me just ripping myself off. Nobody gave me a break on going rate when I was buying bees. I either paid it or did not get bees. Had I known then what I know now I would have started 30 days earlier and filled hives with swarms.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

By learning about basic genetics and nutrition, I produced horses like this. _Reducing my chances for producing a common product people could get anywhere_..










Here is that same foal as an adult:









When the horse market died because of the economy, it turned my farm experience to beekeeping. I use the same principal..to produce a unique product.

I probably spend less on feed than some, because I understand the nutritional and timing aspect. I don't just feed calories for growth or maintenence . I have more specific objectives in mind.

I don't have it all figured out yet..but give me a few more years....

But back to the OP:

Selling a few nucs this year will keep my program funded. That's a necessity.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Lauri said:


> I don't have it all figured out yet..but give me a few more years....


Good luck...


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Michael Palmer said:


> Good luck...


LOL, yup- just about the time you think you have it figured out...Well, you know. Eeeeverything changes. Or you're too old to make use of it.

Michael, You've been suspiciously quiet thorough out this thread. I expect you have renamed you overwintering queen yard "The Precious"

If I had 200 premium queens overwintering right now, I'd be looking like this:


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## Andrew Dewey (Aug 23, 2005)

@Lauri - can you write a bit of the mechanics of nuc pick up in your operation? What I am used to here in Maine is arriving around sunset, the nucs being screened in in a vendor supplied box, and the beekeeper loading nucs onto the back of their pickup or into the trunk of their car :s and away they and the bees go. No opportunity nor expectation of an opportunity for inspection. How do things work in your operation if you have 2 or 3 people arrive about the same time?


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

If you ever did get it all figured out it wouldn't be as fun would it? The opportunity to learn and experiment while continuing to make tangible progress (and some income) all at the same time are what make beekeeping enjoyable to me.

I still haven't decided what I am going to try to sell my nucs for, but this thread is encouraging me not to cheat myself.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Andrew Dewey said:


> @Lauri - can you write a bit of the mechanics of nuc pick up in your operation? What I am used to here in Maine is arriving around sunset, the nucs being screened in a vendor supplied box, and the beekeeper loading nucs onto the back of their pickup or into the trunk of their car :s and away they and the bees go. No opportunity nor expectation of an opportunity for inspection. How do things work in your operation if you have 2 or 3 people arrive about the same time?


Pick up will be by appointment only. I _have_ had that problem in the past. Folks don't seem to realize there are five people waiting for help and they want to chat... 

My customer service here is as important as the nuc itself. I'm establishing a good local customer base as well. It is a good start for screening potential employees too. I'm going to need some help eventually. I have a lot of people who would volunteer, but with no experience that wouldn't be a help. 

I don't do the volume as suppliers need to do to make their money, so individual attention is possible.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

David LaFerney said:


> If you ever did get it all figured out it wouldn't be as fun would it? .


LOL -true. It is the challenge that keeps projects interesting, but I do like to be efficient. And try to be innovative.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Lauri said:


> Here is that same foal as an adult:


Come on Lauri, quit horsin' around.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

sqkcrk said:


> Come on Lauri, quit horsin' around.


That's my Job...


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## Duncan151 (Aug 3, 2013)

Lauri said:


> That's my Job...


Lauri, how big of a nuc do you need to raise those black and white ones?


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

I use a medium sized custom white colored nuc...


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

When is she due?


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

You're going to get me in trouble by being off topic! LOL


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Moi?


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## Duncan151 (Aug 3, 2013)

Lauri said:


> I use a medium sized custom white colored nuc...


Nice looking nuc, very portable!


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

The Honey Householder said:


> Who wants to pay $80 for a package in late May.:scratch:


Surely not me, if I can't get packages by mid-April at the latest, I may as well not even get them because they won't build up fast enough to get much of a honey crop in my area.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

When you buy bees the value is not just whatever they can produce this year - honeyhouseholder, for you maybe - they are the means of production for years to come. Is that mare in the picture only valued for the one foal?


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

People ask me "What are the differences between my nucs and nucs that are brought up from Ca. after pollination services are done?

Perhaps the question _should_ be, What are the differences between:
-Local Overwintered nucs
-Local Spring nucs
-spring nucs from warm weather climates
-Packages from warm weather climates
-Collected Swarms

The behavior is generally predictably different and they have different management needs.
As you can see, all colonies are not created-or managed-equally. Hence the OP's title, shockingly wide variation in nuc prices. Not just a regonal price difference or demand issue.


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

The biggest change most of the California bees need is to be re-queened with stock adapted to the local climate. Bees in CA are selected for making lots of bees. There is a huge difference vs bees that are selected to make a crop of honey and overwinter successfully with minimal intervention by the beekeeper. Of course, it is possible for the beekeepers bring bees in from CA to purchase local queens, in which case, your advantage is a bit less than if they are using stock Italian bees.

In your place, I would do more to emphasize that you are selling bees that have successfully overwintered in the local climate and are ready to make a productive spring colony. Also note that a nuc will need to be fed if there is no nectar available in the field, yours especially will be prepared to build rapidly as soon as they are put into a normal size box.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

Difference between an overwintered local nuc and a local spring nuc. I can give you an actually discription.

My first hive was a local spring nuc. I acquired it on May 5th. by June 5th It had managed to expand to 10 frames and by July was 20 frames (Double deep). It went on to make one medium of honey that I failed to harvest due to not having any honey harvesting equipment not even a bucket and strainer I was told not to expect any honey in the first year.

In that same year I made two 5 frame nucs up from a cut out. both over wintered successful. they where building up by the last week of February. B the end of April both where 20 fraems hives. a deep with a med 10 frame. Two weeks later both had a second medium and where expand to the point of being honey producers in there first full year. This time I was not adequately prepared to manage swarming and both hives swarmed damaging there eventual honey production. both produced approx 50 lbs of honey that I did manage to harvest. These where the first and second hives that in fact produced a profit in less than 12 months.

I now have 11 nucs I am over wintering from queens produced in my apiary. all as of yesterday are foraging and actually bringing in pollen. this leads me to believe that all are already in build up and expanding their brood nests. What I find I am lacking this year is familiarity with what behaviors indicate what management is necessary. it is far to early. Should I still be doing brood inspections and preparing to expand these nucs? I do not feel I am on solid ground but am holding my own. just a different year with different decisions to make. I do not have the same since as I did last year when I felt I had no idea what was coming and ended up preparing the wrong stuff at the wrong time. this year I am prepared for everything. If the bees make honey I am ready for it. if they make new colonies I am ready for it. if they make everything all at once. I am still ready for it. 93 boxes of one type or another, a small collection of mating nucs for queen cells and production of additional hives, an extractor and a supply of buckets for whatever 23 hives choose to do. Let these girls try to throw me a curve ball this year. I have them dialed in. No matter what they produce I am in a position to profit from it. And a massive swarming attempt is very much welcome in my apiary it will generate a profit and will do it early in the season. Fine by me selling honey is way to much work anyway. I have to make that far more streamline to ever do it in a big way.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Awesome post Daniel..LOL

Yup, a local overwintered nuc has a queen that was mated during the _right_ time of year, Mid summer when weather is reliably warm and drones are a plenty. Now more mature and coming into her prime this spring. It is surprising how* large* these overwinterd queens can grow. By overwintering successfully, these colonies have not only proven themselves hardy for local, possibly colder climates and longer inactive periods, they are more mature, more established than most alternatives and are ready to grow quickly into producing colonies

You don't have to requeen, because they ALREADY have a locally mated queen.
And when produced by smaller local apiaries, they are likely to Traits that are good for the hobbyiest, which are not always the same traits that are best for the commercial beekeeper. Genetics of your hive play a key role in not only it's success but the beekeepers pleasure and satisfaction.

The strong growth of an established nuc is something I don't want to imply will be a 'guaranteed performance', but would like to mention it more as a warning to 'be ready'. That growth will be limited if the nuc isn't fed or cared for by the new owner, but will likely far out perform any newly made spring nuc.

I overwinter 5 over 5 nucs and they many times grow to 5 or 6- 8 frame deeps high by mid/late summer and produce a big surplus of honey. But that's my strain of bees, my climate, my specific region and management methods all in play.

If you squish the queen or make other management mistakes, my bees will be effected the same as any other colony. If you don't give them the room they need to expand, they may swarm. Etc etc.

My personal spring nucs are generally construced of 3 frames of bees and a one gallon feeder. They grow to 7 deep frames over 8 by late summer for overwintering. That's about as good as they can do in one season. But look out next year! (I leave in every DROP of honey this first year and feed surprisingly large amounts of my protein recipe in fall.)
In fact I have several of these overwintering on a bench that was too high for the expected new growth this spring. I just lowered the benches the other day. Thank goodness I have a fork lift.
In a few months these will be sky high.

Here you see my brilliant idea of having new nucs on a slightly elevated bench for easy managing. The saw horses are only 24" but with the addes 2x6 bench they are right at 30" ..Nice for a single nuc, but no higher.

These were _going_ to be mating nucs, but the first round of queens were so prolific, I just left them in tact to grow. These were started with three frames of bees and one gallon feeder.










Left End nuc had a failed mated return to start. I used that one for mating nuc before leaving it to grow. Here you see I am starting to cluster them for winter:










Lowering the bench during winter so next spring the will not be too high to reach:










These will be 5-6+ deeps high this year, if I leave them to grow unchecked. I'll limit this 8' bench to four hives this spring. You can see it is already numbered for 2' spacing. 










Swarms and shook swarms, if fed well and managed, are absolutly amazing too. But basically you have the exact same thing as an overwintered nuc. A colony headed by a mature queen that is motivated to perform.

This swarm was collected in a Fred Meyer parking lot. 6-28-13. But according to the person who informed me about it, it came from the Joint Base Lewis/McChord prairie-training area from across the street. It was swarming and holding right in the middle of the intersection. I bet that was a sight! I collected this onto a single deep & had the advantage of 10 drawn combs to start off. It drew out 20 more new frames and is overwintering in 3 deeps. I'll be placing a swarm trap or two in this location this spring. 










This swarm found my swarm trap in my own yard 6-6-13. With a mature unmarked queen I knew it was not one of mine. It also drew out 20 deep frames and is overwintering in 3 deeps. Nether one of these swarms were interested in any syrup, but gobbled up the fall protien globs.











I have a few experiments with shook swarms made _after_ the flow. Results and photos to come, after they winter and begin to increase. I think you'll be interested in this.

So perhaps this thread might discuss, instead of only buying bees, making more swarm traps and collecting bees this year. Don't overlook this resource.


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