# Moonbeam stock



## Moon (May 7, 2011)

In 2012 I was looking at a breed listed on the russel apiaries site as a moonbeam queen. Unfortunately I was never able to purchase any of these queens before RA shut the doors. Does anyone have any information on the breed or know where I could get in touch with someone that might have some information on the breed? I'm curious about lineage and specific traits they were selecting for while developing.

Many thanks,


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

Most of Russell's theoretical genetics ended up being snake oil. Most of his queens were purchased in bulk from a breeder in CA, then relabeled as something else. 

I can't say for certain, but my guess is that a "moonbeam" genetic strain never existed. I'd stop looking.


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## Moon (May 7, 2011)

Well that's really disappointing, thanks for the quick reply specialkayme


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## May-Bee (Aug 11, 2014)

there was also some he sold called sunkist, were these also in the same boat with moonbeams? 
these were to be super gentle queens. was thinking about finding one in the spring...... ahhh


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## Brandy (Dec 3, 2005)

If you have any bees that go out before others, or seem to be the last ones in the evening, you could market those as the moonbeams. We've all got some... He got an A for marketing, the rest of us got an A for gullible, myself included!!


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## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

There was a BS member reporting that he lived near RA and had some moonbeam bees. He worked with/for the Senior Mr. Russell I think and had "The real" moonbeams, from an early stock. Don't remember his ID -maybe --lly? HTH


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

I doubt that this bee even existed. If they have then whoever got it will be
advertising for its sales and propagation. The us lab will be storing this for future research and 
further study. There will be a club forming for this genetics just like
the European black bees on the net now. So when you found one then let us know too.


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## norton (Mar 19, 2005)

Sunkists, moonbeams ....who knows, he might have even come up with eclipse queens at some stage.


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

May-Bee said:


> there was also some he sold called sunkist, were these also in the same boat with moonbeams?


Most likely.



Lburou said:


> There was a BS member reporting that he lived near RA and had some moonbeam bees. He worked with/for the Senior Mr. Russell I think and had "The real" moonbeams, from an early stock.


I doubt it.

Senior Mr. Russell was a good beekeeper, that maintained a good stock, at least from what I hear. I never met him. In the aftermath of his declining health and eventual passing, his colonies were split up between two of his three sons. One son claimed to be maintaining the "pure" strain of the sunkist line. This was rebutted by others with facts like: he incorporated Russian genetics, his hives became largely africanized, and he maintained too few colony numbers to maintain any sort of genetic breeding program. The other son also claimed to be maintaining the "pure" strain of the sunkist line, but also claimed to be maintaining (or developing, I forget which) the moonbeam line, the sunkist cordovan line, and the tiger line (although I don't think it ever made it to market). As it ends up, the second son wasn't maintaining any type of breeding yard, of any kind, and was using the hives of a friend to supply some of his queens and some of his nucs, claiming they were sunkist, AMM, and moonbeam, all in the same yard. The second son's empire eventually came crashing down, which resulted in his Chapter 7 Bankruptcy. In the Bankruptcy, he listed a number of creditors, including an $11,000 debt to "Miksa Farms," along with a number of other small debts to bee supply companies and individuals in the GA and CA regions. As far as assets, he listed "$600 of Bee Equipment" (although he did claim a loss of $33,000 of beekeeping equipment due to theft in the previous year). With little bee operations, no mating yards, few colonies, maintaining hives with multiple genetic strains in heavily bee populated MS regions, $110,000 in sales in 2012, and large debts to queen providers, it doesn't take much to piece it together - he wasn't breeding the bees himself. 

Some people have claimed great success from the queens they purchased from him. I'm sure it's true. Whether the credit should be given to Miksa's genetics/breeding operations, or Russell's, I'll let you be the judge of that. 

Ultimately, I'd suggest you not dwell long on pursuing former Russell genetics, from any location. I can't say you won't find what you are looking for, but I highly suspect you'll be chasing phantoms.


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## Brandy (Dec 3, 2005)

Hadn't heard about Miksa's involvement but makes sense now!


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

Brandy said:


> Hadn't heard about Miksa's involvement but makes sense now!


Most hadn't. His family gave him $15,000 to settle claims on the eve of bankruptcy. He paid some creditors off in an attempt to keep them out of the bankruptcy. Who knows what other queen suppliers got paid out, were not listed in the bankruptcy, and of which we don't know anything about.


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## UTvolshype (Nov 26, 2012)

Specialkayme said:


> Most hadn't. His family gave him $15,000 to settle claims on the eve of bankruptcy. He paid some creditors off in an attempt to keep them out of the bankruptcy. Who knows what other queen suppliers got paid out, were not listed in the bankruptcy, and of which we don't know anything about.


Zombies never die so maybe you get lucky here <<< http://russellapiaries.webs.com/apps/webstore/products >>> sunkist but no moombeams, but be sure you don't pay through paypal.


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## joshk (Mar 31, 2010)

I was one of the unfortunate that sent Russel $100 (luckily only that much) and received what I believe 3 virgin queens. During the whole Dr. Russell fiasco I was going over my Essential Queen Rearing from Larry Conner book and in the bio for Miksa one of the photos is of a bunch of cells with the label R. Russell. I always wondered if that was the same Russell I just order "Sunkist" queens from. Feel bad for Dave, I have talked a couple of times with him on the phone, always seems very nice and willing to share his years of knowledge.
Josh


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

UTvolshype said:


> Zombies never die so maybe you get lucky here <<< http://russellapiaries.webs.com/apps/webstore/products >>>


I don't think he's actually taking orders. Don't know if the website will process it or not, but the website is just still running from prepdisaster times. If you go to the home page, it explains it. 



joshk said:


> During the whole Dr. Russell fiasco I was going over my Essential Queen Rearing from Larry Conner book and in the bio for Miksa one of the photos is of a bunch of cells with the label R. Russell. I always wondered if that was the same Russell I just order "Sunkist" queens from.


I forgot about that. I remember seeing the same photo, but it was before the whole fiasco went down. I asked Russell about it, but I don't remember if he told me it was a co-incidence (not him) or if it was an older photo from some cells his dad ordered. I believe it was the earlier, but can't remember exactly.


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## valleyman (Nov 24, 2009)

Hello Specialkayme, remember me. I'm still red faced and apologetic for my role in promoting the fiasco that was Robert Russell. I remember very well that he was a very knowledgeable con artist. He actually took good care of me while I was promoting him. I received a free gift of a moonbeam queen in a shipment of Cordovans and I wasn't impressed with her at all and it was an aggressive hive. He actually gave me some good advice on how to get my pure Russians requeened, and was telling facts about how they were. Some were really the bees from hell. The last shipment I received from him was, if I remember right, another strain that he supposedly had just started selling. There was 8-10 queens that when I received them were small and were unmated virgins. None survived. This was at the time when he was getting many complaints for non delivery. I was talking to a person in Ms. today that said that he had disappeared to the best of his knowledge. His brother that he made the villain of to my knowledge is keeping bees from their dads Apiary. Good riddance is what I say. I haven't been on Beesource much since then and it pained me to see someone looking for his phantom genetics.


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## beenut46 (Nov 12, 2011)

I also got two orders from him 12 queens l was lucky ,they were called sun kist.
They were the best queens I have purchased ,I used them as breeders and grafted about 500 cells per year from them.As of Dec still had one marked queen. I don't known were he got mine but they were very good, I have purchased queens from all over US jn my 35 yrs grafting for the last 25.
i


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## Slow Drone (Apr 19, 2014)

Bob Russell Red Belly Bee Farm Myrtle Ms. Is this who everyone would like to get their hands on? bob [email protected] or try red belly bee [email protected] you'll have to be slick if this is the guy.


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

I purchased some sunkist once.It took a long time to get them and after several unanswered email I finally got them.They turned out being the poorest queens I have ever had.My mutts were much much better!


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## zackcarp (Jun 4, 2012)

Just my 2 cents, i remember talking with my grandfather some years back, and he mentioned he used a stock called moonbeams...... or was it a midnite.....I think he said it was a cross of a carniolan and caucasian. His father in law taught him, so this strain could be from 100 years ago. Unfortunately he passed away this past August. But i have never seen one.....


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

The Midnite bee and the Moonbeam are miles apart.



> The Midnight bee was developed by crossing the Caucasian and Carniolan stocks, hoping to maintain the extreme gentleness of both strains while removing the excessive propolis of the Caucasians and minimizing the swarming propensity of the Carniolans.


http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/entomology/apiculture/pdfs/1.12 copy.pdf

In any event, you have to tip your hat off to Robert Russell. He was one hell of a salesman. Think about it: it's been almost two years since he filed for bankruptcy, and almost two and a half years since he shipped off any kind of queen to anyone, and they are still talking about (and wanting to purchase) the fake lines he "created." And he was only in "business" for about two years total. Impressive, really.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

Yeah, but how much of that was from what his father had built in the Russell reputation.


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## rfgreenwell (Feb 14, 2010)

JRG13 said:


> Yeah, but how much of that was from what his father had built in the Russell reputation.


Practically zero of Robert's business success stemmed from Julius' reputation. Robert built up his father's reputation as a marketing tool through the internet and webpage far greater than it ever was when J.N. Russell was actually in business. He had people believing that his father was an industry leader among commercial beeks. A smokescreen. Robert was extremely adept at offering people just exactly what they were looking for, and making them believe that he could provide it. He was the best con man I've ever been taken by. All the people that got taken for a couple of queens or so, well I feel bad for them, but they got off easy compared to a few of us.

By the way, Robert offered midnites from his own "preferred private stock" if that was what you were looking for. In fact if you made an inquiry for just about anything, even if you conjured it up in your own mind just minutes before asking him, he always seemed to have just what you wanted either in his 13 stocked varieties, or among his private stock on one of his islands out in the gulf or carribean somewhere. And people sent him money. The moonbeam and midnite orders were filled with C F Koehnen Carniolans, or dark russians from Miksa. Sunkist Cordovans were from Koehen and Pendell or Wooten, and the list goes on. JN Russell had his own line of Italians that he called Sunkists. Robert's sunkists were whoever's shipment of italians that came in that week for redistribution. There were exactly zero actual Russell varieties of any shape or form, ever...ever...
There never, ever, were any moonbeams...


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## virginiawolf (Feb 18, 2011)

I got two of them from them. They are mixed in with my survivors at this point. Wherever the bees came from I don't know but they sent me a variety of different bees that I tried during the same time everyone else was buying them. I was a beginner beekeeper and not very good at wintering bees. I am sure that somewhere in my bees is some of what they sold me. I have some bees that look like the European Dark Bees that came from them. I am hoping that they do well this winter because I will be all set to make a few splits and make some honey this year. It has been a long road. I was one of the few apparently that got everything I ordered but toward the end of all that it was actually sad to see it all fall apart. I can't say that I have straight moon beams but I remember what those queens looked like and when I raise queens I see some that look like those still. I got some more aggressive bees over the course of the past couple years so I think that the survivor stock deal I have is more aggressive. When I looked at the Italian bees I would see mites but the darker bees that have been the survivors seem to handle the mites and small hive beetles as well. I am hoping that I can just keep making my own queens from here on out and that will be that as far as purchasing bees. 

These bees were from that time period. This was early on after the queens were installed.
http://youtu.be/fRwDFkwlyMQ


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Since you owned some, was there any truth that they worked later than other bees?


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## rfgreenwell (Feb 14, 2010)

Oldtimer said:


> Since you owned some, was there any truth that they worked later than other bees?


Of course they did, didn't you know that everyone in this prison is innocent? In fact you couldn't risk moving a colony of moonbeams at night or you'd lose all the foragers.:lpf:

I bet if I let it slip out that I still had original moonbeam breeders and even still had breeders representing 11 of the 13 Russell lines of bees, and the breeding stock for the "Cosmic Winds" and the "Elegantes" that never made it to production, people would want to buy some queens from me. If I took out the hurdle of the buyer having to fork out the money up front, I bet I could sell all the Russell stock I could make, at least for a while.:scratch:

People are so gullible...me even more so than most were.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

Those were the days! The stuff that dreams are made of! A Field of Dreams for beekeepers, not dead baseball players. I would still like it if Santa would bring me those moonbeams I ordered and didn't get. I just hope and pray that the refunds that some of us got did not involve the sale of his mothers house to keep her baby boy out of prison.


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## rookie2531 (Jul 28, 2014)

Oh, don't worry other dreams replace those ones quickly, you wanna buy some vsh queens, right.


Wait for it............and here they come.


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## adamf (Jan 28, 2006)

rookie2531 said:


> Oh, don't worry other dreams replace those ones quickly, you wanna buy some vsh queens, right.
> 
> 
> Wait for it............and here they come.



VSH is used by the many of the USA's largest beekeepers in their queen breeding programs.

No snake oil, no mythology, just hard work and perseverance.

Adam Finkelstein & Kelly Rausch
Producing VSH Breeding stock
Will gladly provide references from our satisfied customers

http://vpqueenbees.com


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

BUT I DID!!!! Have no fond memories of those.


rookie2531 said:


> Oh, don't worry other dreams replace those ones quickly, you wanna buy some vsh queens, right.
> 
> 
> Wait for it............and here they come.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

adamf said:


> VSH is used by the many of the USA's largest beekeepers in their queen breeding programs.
> 
> No snake oil, no mythology, just hard work and perseverance.


The sad legacy of scoundrels like Russell. They cast suspicion upon those whose hard work and perseverance have produced legitimate results.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

I got some VSH stock from Adam in the fall of 2013. I usually expect II breeders to be little more than short lived genetic donors designed to mix with our own stock just as we did in the past with Glenn's. I also expect the "cost" associated with hygienic behavior to result in lower hive populations and lower honey production. Surprisingly, to me at least, I found one of Adam's to be the star producing hive in a location with 40 other hives. Needless to say, she earned the "pole position" in "breeder row" this year.


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## rfgreenwell (Feb 14, 2010)

jim lyon said:


> I got some VSH stock from Adam in the fall of 2013. I usually expect II breeders to be little more than short lived genetic donors designed to mix with our own stock just as we did in the past with Glenn's. I also expect the "cost" associated with hygienic behavior to result in lower hive populations and lower honey production. Surprisingly, to me at least, I found one of Adam's to be the star producing hive in a location with 40 other hives. Needless to say, she earned the "pole position" in "breeder row" this year.


:thumbsup::thumbsup:

I think that we will find this improvement in productivity and longevity to continue getting better as the selection focus progresses. I have a couple of John Harbo II breeders that are stellar so far, and handling the winter to date "squeaky clean". Of course winter is not yet over here, so we shall have to see. Talking with John, he said a lot of effort has gone into making the VSH trait sustainable while enhancing all the other detriments that beeks complained about. I am not seeing the real spotty brood anymore that made grafting a pain, yet do see the hygenics in play. And they are seemingly as productive as anything I have. An II that I did in Aug 2013 is still going strong half way through her second winter, in a full size 8 frame DD colony, no brood restriction, and made two meds of surplus honey (good enough for Maryland) and one for themselves. She was nothing famous in her genetic background...just a practice queen, but she is earning herself some status and I will consider both grafting from her and/or drone pool. I also had three virgins from one of my queens after 4 years of mutt mating, that Kelly Rausch custom inseminated for me back in 2010 that formed the beginning basis for my local stock. They were basically carniolan heritage and inseminated with VSH semen. One went kaput about like Adam warned me it probably would, but the other two went into their second and third seasons respectively. The one that went two years was lost in a swarm, the three year lady was superceded and her daughter was good and still with me until this winter...haven't checked her colony yet. Adam taught me to evert the drones while I was with them, and Kelly let me look through the scope at various stages of the insemination procedure, and I said "Man, I've got to get me one of these things", and eventually did. And I am certain Adam and Kelly's skills have nothing but improved with the past 5 years of experience gained. They are good people and were fun to work with. My plan and reason for acquiring the expensive equipment and skills, is simply to be able to operate in a closed population on a personal level, and am aiming toward populating all 100 hives in my apiaries with II queens of my own making. Kinda crazy huh?


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

rookie2531 said:


> Oh, don't worry other dreams replace those ones quickly, you wanna buy some vsh queens, right.
> 
> 
> Wait for it............and here they come.



Delete. 

A pretty lame drive-by, most likely from a very poorly informed beehaver. Understand what you're taking about before your fingers hit the keyboard.



Now, let's back the moonbeam stock....


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

rfgreenwell said:


> Kinda crazy huh?


Doesn't sound crazy to me. Keep us posted on your success. I've got many pure VSH colonies (Harbo and others). Got a Schley instrument and this will be my 3rd year with II. I plan to really focus on II this season.


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## rfgreenwell (Feb 14, 2010)

Me too...Schley w/ forcep grip, Harbo syringe from Sue. Worked the kinks out last year, lots of practice. Used Peter's harbo equivalent, but I think Sue's micometer will be an improvement. I wanted the ability to fill and store capillary tubes, as well as the option to purchase or trade semen from/with others in the future. Have six yards and want to establish family groupings for sustainability. We'll see how it goes.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

I have saved PM's from Robert Russell trying to convince me to buy into his local acclimation program. He wanted several 1000 dollars (3000+) to become a member of his "family". I continue to keep these PM's as a reminder to ALWAYS be cautious. He was slick, VERY slick. The real scary, and now embarrassing, part is that I gave it some real consideration. I feel bad for those who actually sent him money. Bankruptcy was not a fitting end for this guy.


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## apis maximus (Apr 4, 2011)

rfgreenwell said:


> I bet if I let it slip out that I still had original moonbeam breeders and even still had breeders representing 11 of the 13 Russell lines of bees, and the breeding stock for the "Cosmic Winds" and the "Elegantes" that never made it to production, people would want to buy some queens from me. If I took out the hurdle of the buyer having to fork out the money up front, I bet I could sell all the Russell stock I could make, at least for a while.:scratch:
> 
> People are so gullible...


Lots of wisdom and understanding in those words, sir. I truly mean that.

It was always said, in restrictive circles of course, that true LEARNING is an individual thing. A process, the individual has to go, by himself, through. A right of passage if you will...
What takes place in groups, SCHOOLING, is not LEARNING. Groups of fish, move into a school or as a school. Sometimes in very precise, identical moves. Of course, responding to signals...always.

But, we...the people...we do love a good story, don't we. We want that, implied, potential advantage...that edge. Always. And especially if so many others want the same thing. Or if we could be on the "small" circle...We crave the crowd...we love the crowd...we can't seem to function outside of the crowds approval or disapproval...Yes, we are those folks...all of us...all the time.

We fall for slogans...one liners...tag lines...memes and themes. Actually, we do not fall for them...we fly to them, like moths at night fly toward the bright lights of a shinny, well lit car lot.

That is why, LEARNING is an individual process. Don't let anyone telling you any different. But if you do...accept and embrace the consequences. 
And when you hear that "hip"..."cool"...saying: 
"There is no *I* in the TEAM"//...run for the hills...run to your bees and look for answers. Fast. They, the bees, are not a TEAM...they are a SUPERORGANISM.

Imagination, WIll, Ingenuity, Intelligence...and you go look and think of more of those I I I I words....do those count? At all?

I will leave you all, with the words of other more humble and more intelligent folk...Peace.

“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, one by one.”


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

AstroBee said:


> I have saved PM's from Robert Russell trying to convince me to buy into his local acclimation program. He wanted several 1000 dollars (3000+) to become a member of his "family". I continue to keep these PM's as a reminder to ALWAYS be cautious. He was slick, VERY slick. The real scary, and now embarrassing, part is that I gave it some real consideration. I feel bad for those who actually sent him money. Bankruptcy was not a fitting end for this guy.


I was very close too... only thing that saved me was that I thought it was way too much money to sell his product. And he was pretty slick. I hope a previous poster is not right that his mother sold her house to keep him out of jail...


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## Hogback Honey (Oct 29, 2013)

Specialkayme said:


> Most of Russell's theoretical genetics ended up being snake oil. Most of his queens were purchased in bulk from a breeder in CA, then relabeled as something else.
> 
> I can't say for certain, but my guess is that a "moonbeam" genetic strain never existed. I'd stop looking.


It was probably a play on words, since the Current California Governor is known as, "Moonbeam"


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## rookie2531 (Jul 28, 2014)

Didn't have to wait too long, did we.

I am just tired of "beekeepers" telling me things like, " I have 2 breeds to pick from in the same yard" or " They have to make a queen cell first, before you can make a split" or " you got those queens from a laying worker".

And yes, 3 different "beekeepers" all with more than 10 years experience a piece has told this "behaver", this, so please excuse me if I don't take everything as gospel.

As far as not knowing something, I do know that if I don't want water on my feet, I buy waterproof, not water resistant.


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## virginiawolf (Feb 18, 2011)

I just went to the Russell website and looked at the picture of the Moonbeam.
It looks just like the bee that I posted.

On Wikipedia it says that Carniolan

"Forage earlier in the morning and later in the evening, and on cool, wet days."

I noticed that these dark bees do fly during colder temperatures than my yellow bees.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carniolan_honey_bee

Perhaps it is safe to say that if you want Moonbeams get some Carniolan stock and you will be all set.

During that time period of a few years as I read all of those posts about waiting for queens to ship and bee breeds I realized that I should learn to raise my own queens instead of buying them. I learned a lot during that time period and made some new good friends as well. It was an interesting time to be a new member of Beesource that is for sure.


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## NDnewbeek (Jul 4, 2008)

Hard to believe this is back after all that happened. 

It was nothing short of offensive that he referred to himself and had others referring to him as "Dr."


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## Velbert (Mar 19, 2006)

If there was such of bee as moon beam

Most flowers are in sink with the day light, the rise and setting of the sun. And temperature.

I set bees in on 50 acres of yellow neck squash in mid June. It would be barley cracking day light and it sounded like a swarm of bees on the squash.


Later that morning about 11 Am the field man was checking the field to see how the bees were working the squash,
He came over and we talked and he said the bees were not working the squash very good. I told him he should have gotten there earlier, by 10 am they just about had stop working them. The blossoms were all starting to close. The
days were in the 90 degrees and higher.

During summer flows some plants don't start producing until it starts to get hot during the late morning or early pm.

in early spring if you notice your bees coming into the hive at the beginning of their work day will be caring in more pollen and as day warms up, they bring a lot less pollen because more are bringing in nectar,water and propolis.

I read a story on Buckwheat in New York
That the flow ended about noon every day.

I have also seen in July a flow, the sun had went down it was about 15 to 20 minutes before total darkness the vines the flow was off of still sounded like a swarm of bees in them.

I have seen bees in Southern California 
barley light enough to see pollen coming in. Also one morning in Oklahoma it was barley light enough to see I was fueling my fork lift and seen a percellia weed moving and there was no breeze there was bees on them some almost had a load of pollen. 

If the flowers are producing early or late
bees will get out and work them.

In most situations getting out at cooler temperature helps the most in a cleaning flight when it has been a long cold confinement for them to take a cleansing flight.

The darker bees do get out at a cooler temperature seen a very small loads of pollen coming in at about 46 not much but a little the were Carn. At about 55 degrees lot more pollen coming in.


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## apis maximus (Apr 4, 2011)

Mr. Velbert,

This was the most beautiful post you have ever honored this forum with. Thanks for setting up a beautiful frame in my mind. I have followed and studied your ways and methods you so open and willingly, share here, and on your website. 
Just wanted to let you know about that. I always wanted to say, that. I just could not find the courage to do so. Or maybe the right moment. But here it is now. For what is worth. Please, keep the Lights on. They are an inspiration. For me that is.


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## Velbert (Mar 19, 2006)

Thanks, You are welcome, Apis

Hope it will be helpful for others
These are just thing I have observed and remembered in my beekeeping experience.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Surprisingly in ideal climates bees are know to occasionally spend the night in the field and return at first light the next morning. I heard this from an Hawaiian beekeeper a number of years ago and frankly I was a bit skeptical. I later experienced it myself after moving a yard of bees in the dark of night only to return the next morning to find many confused bees circling the area where the hives sat just the day before.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Velbert said:


> Later that morning about 11 Am the field man was checking the field to see how the bees were working the squash,
> He came over and we talked and he said the bees were not working the squash very good. I told him he should have gotten there earlier, by 10 am they just about had stop working them. The blossoms were all starting to close.


Same with apples. Once the orchard owner accused me of supplying him with inferior bees. They weren't working the apple flowers. He said he went out at 4pm to check. I asked him to check at 10am, as the colonies were strong. He apologized next day after looking at his trees in the morning.


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## apis maximus (Apr 4, 2011)

Velbert said:


> Later that morning about 11 Am the field man was checking the field to see how the bees were working the squash,
> He came over and *we talked* and he said the bees were not working the squash very good. I told him he should have gotten there earlier, by 10 am they just about had stop working them. The blossoms were all starting to close.





Michael Palmer said:


> Same with apples. Once the orchard *owner accused me* of supplying him with inferior bees. They weren't working the apple flowers. He said he went out at 4pm to check. I asked him to check at 10am, as the colonies were strong. He apologized next day after looking at his trees in the morning.


Darn lazy, inferior bees. Clearly not Moonbeamers.
And both of you fine gentlemen, are sort of saying the same thing. But not about your bees. Cuz, you more than obviously know your bees. Certainly the folks you were communicating with though, although they might know a lot about a lot of other stuff, for sure, they just don't know much or anything about the bees. Well, your bees.

Kind of like one of these moments...the short version.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fuDDqU6n4o 

Thanks folks, great points.


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## BadBeeKeeper (Jan 24, 2015)

jim lyon said:


> Surprisingly in ideal climates bees are know to occasionally spend the night in the field and return at first light the next morning. I heard this from an Hawaiian beekeeper a number of years ago and frankly I was a bit skeptical. I later experienced it myself after moving a yard of bees in the dark of night only to return the next morning to find many confused bees circling the area where the hives sat just the day before.


It doesn't even have to be an "ideal" climate. Sometimes I walk through one of my fields as the sun is setting and the temperature is dropping, particularly in the Fall when the night temps can go below 50*, and see bees clinging to the goldenrod, unmoving. They've stayed out too late and apparently wait for the sun to rise again before going back to the hive.


As far as being taken in by a con-man, remember that the "con" part of that term is short for "confidence". Confidence it the con-artist's stock in trade, he inspires it, uses it. He finds out what you want, and because you want [to believe] it, it is easier for you to believe it. A good con-man can make an otherwise intelligent person believe impossible things. A small part of your mind may may want to insist "that can't be true", but you want it to be true and he plays on that, causing you to suspend your disbelief. I spent more than a decade investigating stock frauds and was amazed at some of the things they could get other people to believe. Some of the worst ones were the "affinity scams" that preyed on religious groups, they were easy targets because they are already conditioned to "have faith" and believe things that have no actual, tangible evidence of being true and which the rational part of the mind says are impossible.


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## VolunteerK9 (Aug 19, 2011)

Amazing. Simply amazing.


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