# Slatted Rack Difference



## BFD45 (May 25, 2017)

So, I'm going to use slatted racks in my hives and I plan on building them myself. I have seen two different designs and am not sure which one to go with. I'm looking for input on which one I should go with, and if there is a big deal with the difference. One design has slats going the entire length of the rack, where the other has a 3 inch solid board at the front. The pictures show one deeper than the other, I'll be making them 2.5 inches deep. The only thing I'm not sure about is the length of the slats. I just don't know if there is a difference in the performance of the rack. Thanks!


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

The purpose of the baffle at the front is to block the air and light from the entrance. This allows the queen to lay all the way to the front of the frames in the bottom box. The gap under the slatted rack is actually the point of the rack. To allow cluster space inside the hive that usually won't be filled with comb. Without the baffle and without the gap under the rack, the effectiveness is seriously impaired.


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## bushpilot (May 14, 2017)

Michael Bush said:


> The purpose of the baffle at the front is to block the air and light from the entrance. This allows the queen to lay all the way to the front of the frames in the bottom box. The gap under the slatted rack is actually the point of the rack. To allow cluster space inside the hive that usually won't be filled with comb. Without the baffle and without the gap under the rack, the effectiveness is seriously impaired.


Yeah, what he said. Build it like the 2nd one you posted above.


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## little_john (Aug 4, 2014)

This is how I made some:
http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/beek17b.htm (second photo down) - they work really well. I recently checked one after 12 months of use and it was as clean as the day I installed it. Well pleased.

If you take a look at how the inventor (C.C.Miller) made his - you'll realise that exactly *how* they are made really isn't all that important. He appears to have made the originals using an axe !
LJ


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

C.C. Miller's picture of his slatted rack:
http://www.bushfarms.com/images/MillerSlattedRack.jpg


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## BFD45 (May 25, 2017)

Thanks y’all. I appreciate the info. I have plans for the one with the solid board, so that’s what I’ll be doing. In y’alls opinion, do these really make a difference? I’ve been a beek for 3 years and I’ve had good success without them.


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## AR Beekeeper (Sep 25, 2008)

So far as I know, there has only been 1 controlled study in the last 20 years. That study found no improvement in honey production, which was what they were trying to determine.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

I saw a pic somewhere that use slats full length front to rear and merely staple a 4" wide piece of aluminum flashing to the top of the entrance end of the slats to create the light baffle. I made one up for a five frame size but never got around to trying it. It is a simple construction.


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## little_john (Aug 4, 2014)

The use of slatted racks doesn't - as far as I know - have anything to do with honey yield. 

Miller's original idea was that the rack was removable, to be inserted - as required - into a void beneath the bottom box. This feature appears to have been lost over time. As can be seen from Miller's photo, unlike modern woodenware it was a very crude affair:



Miller's idea was taken-up by Killion who used them all-year round, and so built them as a fixed hive feature, rather than being removable. He spoke highly of them, writing that they help to prevent swarming and aid with the evaporation of nectar, as well as providing much needed ventilation.



As can be seen in both of the above photographs, the slats ran crosswise - that is, at ninety degrees to the orientation of the combs. For some strange reason, people seem to have got it into their heads that the slats must run lengthways, and that each gap needs to coincide with the comb directly above it. I've even seen plans which incorporate tubes, and even wedge-shaped slats (apex pointing upwards) with claims that these facilitate the directing of falling debris towards the mesh below. Total overkill, and completely unnecessary.

Personally, I think they're great, and have never seen a single example of bearding in a hive with one fitted. Many people think bearding is perfectly normal - I don't - I think it's an indicator of poor hive design. Imo, bees should be able to get off the combs when congested during hot weather without leaving the security of the beehive, and the slatted rack enables them to do this. 
LJ

PS - as MB has already mentioned, it's the space beneath the slats which is the really important feature - all the slats do is to prevent comb from being built in that space.


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## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

When I started beekeeping I started with deep brood boxes, so I also made about 20 deep 5 frame nucs. However in my area most new beekeepers start with medium nucs, so I had a problem !.
SoI built slatted racks that I could just drop into the deep nucs and have been using them for medium nucs ever since.


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## BFD45 (May 25, 2017)

Thanks for all the input!! As far as honey flow, I wouldn’t expect these to change anything plus or minus for yield. To be honest that’s not really even a concern for me, I just want to do what’s good, or better for the bees. I have never really given it much thought until the other day. I saw one mentioned in a post and I guess a lightbulb went on. To make it an easy build, I may just make mine with the slats going all the way front to back, but adding a three piece of aluminum flashing at the front to act as a baffle. Instead of cutting, routing that extra wood in the front, a piece of flashing is going to do the same thing. I think.


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## little_john (Aug 4, 2014)

BFD45 said:


> To make it an easy build ...


There's a lot to be said for making life simple. (Memo to self ...  )
LJ

PS - I think Johno's idea has particular merit for anyone building their own boxes from scratch: to deliberately build the next size deeper box, then insert a loose slatted rack to take up the difference - that way such a box could be used to house both size frames, if needs be.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

*My recollection of this particular study was that the slatted rack influenced the location of the brood but not the quantity...which would also imply no improvement in honey yield..*

* Effects of the slatted rack on brood production and its distribution in the brood nest. Delaplane, K.S. 1999. *_*American Bee Journal*_* 139(6): 474-476*
*ABSTRACT* In newly-installed package colonies, the slatted rack significantly increased the proportion of colony brood being reared near hive entrances, but did not affect overall quantity of brood produced. The experiment was replicated over three years.


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## robinh (Jun 19, 2014)

Here's one little john that has a slatted rack with mild bearding


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## little_john (Aug 4, 2014)

Can't say I'm surprised with such a stack - there are limits ... 

Is that 9 boxes ? That's one helluva colony. Just out of interest - how much space is there beneath the slats ?
LJ


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## robinh (Jun 19, 2014)

here's this colony a few weeks later ,once i added another couple supers the bearding went way down.yes that is 9 med. 8 frames on the first pic and 11 on the 2nd.Space beneath the slats?


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## JConnolly (Feb 21, 2015)

I made some slatted racks and it turns out that what I like most about them is a feature I added. In the center of the entrance end I screwed in a hanger bolt, which makes a perfect place to attach mouse guards, entrance reducers, and robbing screens with a knobbed nut.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

BFD45 said:


> In y’alls opinion, do these really make a difference?


That would depend on the type of bottom board being used. For me, i use solid bottom boards with a sensible entrance, bees brood right to the bottom bars, i don't see what improvements to the hive a slatted rack would achieve. 

For poorly designed or screened bottom boards that tend to stop bees properly utilising all the comb, a slatted rack may help overcome this.

From a robbing point of view, in cold conditions, wouldn't a slatted rack seperate the cluster from the hive entrance and make it harder for them to gaurd against wasps and such?


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Oldtimer said:


> That would depend on the type of bottom board being used. For me, i use solid bottom boards with a sensible entrance, bees brood right to the bottom bars, i don't see what improvements to the hive a slatted rack would achieve.


I've always considered them an invention in search of a purpose. Like so many other similar things....screened bottom boards come to mind.....they gained a following all the same. 
Just my opinion. No offense intended for those who love 'em.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Dan, you're killing me


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## little_john (Aug 4, 2014)

I tried solid bottom boards on a couple of hives this last winter - the result was chalk-brood in both. No other hive in the apiary has detectable levels of chalk-brood. Those affected hives were then placed on Open Mesh Floors, and - at the time of writing - that chalk-brood has largely disappeared.

Britain of course is well-known as being a generally cold and damp island - well, it certainly isn't hot and dry ! - and my particular area (drained land at sea level) is quite possibly the dampest area in Britain. And so it should com as no surprise that OMF's (our term for SBB's) are favoured over here. Nothing to do with being a 'following' - but rather that mesh floors have provided us with a cure for chalk-brood, as well as other ventilation-related issues.

And - fwiw - they were 'invented' a century and a half ago ...
http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/open_mesh_floors.html
LJ


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

I guess a test sample of 2 hives for a few months is proof positive.


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## little_john (Aug 4, 2014)

Oldtimer said:


> I guess a test sample of 2 hives for a few months is proof positive.


So I give an example from my own experience to illustrate that it corresponds to observations made by Roger Patterson and others in the UK, regarding the correlation between chalk-brood and Open Mesh Floors - then someone starts talking about 'proof'.

*There is no 'proof' of anything *(except self-contained mathematical arguments) - *ever.* You will not find one single biological research paper - ever written - where the researcher claims 'proof' for their results. 

'Proof' is but a fiction: a rhetorical device often used for the purposes of provoking an argument. 
LJ


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Agree completely and my post was in line with what you say. Not about proof, but spotlighting the absense thereof.

As an aside, after a fling with screened bottoms when they were the latest fad, all i run now is solid bottom boards. Never saw chalk brood for quite a few years, i thought perhaps it had gone extinct or something. 

Then around 3 years ago i purchased a breeder queen from what was supposed to be the ultimate bee, raised a whole bunch of queens from it, next thing, chalk brood everywhere, but only in progeny from that breeder. In some cases so bad I chose not to sell the nucs.

Haven't raised any more of those, and chalk brood gone away again. My suspicion is chalk brood is in the breed.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>My suspicion is chalk brood is in the breed.

There are probably several traits that contribute to chalk brood or contribute to it's prevention. Chalk brood can't reproduce at the normal temperature of the brood nest. But bees are usually able to maintain the normal temperature. But if they expand the brood nest too much too soon in the spring they can get in a bind where they can't keep it all warm. This is genetic. Then there is the hygienic behavior of being on top of the problem and removing the infested larvae before the spores are released which is genetic. Then there is the immune system being able to fight the spores, which probably is also genetic. Then the drive to keep the brood nest the correct temperature may also be genetic.


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## little_john (Aug 4, 2014)

Oldtimer said:


> My suspicion is chalk brood is in the breed.


That could well be true. It's caused by a fungus, of course, but indeed some strains of bee do seem more prone to this complaint than others - maybe it's something to do with the protein make-up of the larvae outer membrane (?) or something similar.

Patterson tells of a story (http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/chalkbrood.html) in which a known 'chalk-brood queen' was allowed to reproduce, and her daughters were observed to be more-or-less chalk-brood free. It's a curious and confused picture alright - but I think you're very wise not to risk selling nucs headed by such queens. It's hard work gaining a good reputation, but the easiest thing in the world to lose it.

I'm in two minds whether to take a daughter or two from one of those chalk-brood colonies - the colony in question is so docile and ticks all the right boxes - except for that one issue. But - I certainly wouldn't sell queens from her - at least not until I've established that the chalk-brood problem has disappeared.

LJ

Genetic 'susceptibility' - that's the word I've been looking for ...


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Very interesting Michael. Especially about the temperature, I never knew that.

And your post too Little John.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

JWPalmer said:


> Dan, you're killing me


Lol.
Somebody has to stir the pot occasionally.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Chilled brood causes chalkbrood:
http://lrd.spc.int/ext/Disease_Manual_Final/chalkbrood.html
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/0005772X.1982.11097876?journalCode=tbee20


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

I do have slatted racks on all my hives. I will keep doing it untill I get too lazy to make them and then won't. I have solid bottom boards. I used to have a picture back when I only had three hives of when I added the rack to two of them. There was a definite difference on the bearding. My hives still beard but it was a noticeable difference when I had them side by side with each other. 
I like them and have never had a mouse problem with them and I do have 3/8th entrance but no mouse guards.

I won't like them if I want bees in a box and don't have one to use.
Cheers
gww


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## hankstump (Jul 30, 2014)

I too am a fan of slatted boards. Although there may be little scientific basis for it, I do see the benefits.
1. It gives the bees a space to cluster in the evening and hang out with the queen, and who doesn't want to hang with the queen.
2. it gives the bees a place to perch and control the airflow in the hive. All those slats are places bees can perch, and fan, and move air as they see fit. Its also a great place for bees to evaporate water and to help keep the hive cool on hot summer days. 
3. The space below the slats offer a plenum for mixing the air, and slowing down windy blasts from getting into the brood chamber, which allows the bees to control the temperature better, I believe. 
4. It makes for a good hand off zone for the foragers to exchange their loads, and head back out. (Sure would like to research this to confirm) 

I generally keep a small entrance year round, and make sure there is some top venting of some kind to allow the bees to better control their own environment. 

Cheers, Phil in Fremont.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

All these slats are only making up for insufficient air buffer under the brood nest and insufficient continuous vertical comb span (a natural thing to have).
With my tall frames + 2-3 inch air below them I need no slats and have none of the issues listed here and unsure what is the fuss about (basically, a made-up problem to solve).
The slats are making up for the design flaws in standard Lang/Dadant specifications designed in for the industrial mobility, storage, and compactness (the design flaws - from the bee point of view, not human point of view).


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Greg


> The slats are making up for the design flaws in standard Lang/Dadant specifications designed in for the industrial mobility, storage, and compactness (the design flaws - from the bee point of view, not human point of view).


So if you have to build something to fix what you see as a problem, you have to build something. 
You are building your tall frames and I build a slatted rack.

If I want to use standardized equipment that could be bought anywhere and interchanged at ease, the slatted rack if having things you recognize as accomplishing something seems to be a good way to get it accomplished.

I like them but would not be upset to run with out them either.
Cheers
gww
Cheers
gww


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## BFD45 (May 25, 2017)

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread. I really appreciate the info!!. I went ahead and built the racks this weekend, painted the outside, and installed them yesterday. Thanks again!


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

gww said:


> Greg.....
> 
> You are building your tall frames and I build a slatted rack.
> 
> gww


Well, as you know, gww, I just take your standard frames and turn them side-ways.
Done.
I wish I had time to build much lately.
Not.


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## AnVil (May 17, 2018)

My carniolians built drone comb all over slatted rack, also queen had a place to run to during inspection. Did not use them this year.
Glad I read this thread, will put them next no-rack hive and see if there is any difference.


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## little_john (Aug 4, 2014)

AnVil said:


> My carniolians built drone comb all over slatted rack ...


A colony which is desperate for drones will build drone comb wherever it can. The 'fault' lies - not with the equipment - but with beekeeping practice, by not allowing an adequate amount of drone comb to be built within the comb array.
LJ


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## AnVil (May 17, 2018)

little_john said:


> A colony which is desperate for drones will build drone comb wherever it can. The 'fault' lies - not with the equipment - but with beekeeping practice, by not allowing an adequate amount of drone comb to be built within the comb array.
> LJ


Very true.


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## hankstump (Jul 30, 2014)

Just a summary of the history of slatted racks from what I can suss out on this topic trolling the internet, and reading books. 

V.1 - C.C. Miller made the first ones, or at least documented them around 1900. His were crude affairs, and simply split a board with an axe to make the slats. I like a good crude prototype to prove an idea. Worked great. Bees don't care about straight cuts and artistic beauty. Used a 2 inch deep bottom board, so not standard to todays standard. 

V.2 - Then in the 1950, Carl Killion improved the design, by adding the 4" slat in the front, and made with more modern woodworking tools. He made his so it would slide in and out of the bottom board, which he also made 2" deep as best I could tell. The important dimension was the 5/16" from the top of the bottom board that it slid into. Carl, in Illinois, used them year round, and did cut-comb honey. He was looking for a lot of hive ventilation to get the comb honey capped as soon as possible. He was also a big fan of running 9 frames in a 10 frame box and running follower boards for better ventilation in the hive. 

V.3 - Then in the 1960s, Bovard in Hawaii made the slatted board we know today that fits on top of a standard bottom board, with the 3/4" sides on it. This results in about 1.5" below the slats. As best I can tell, he was also the one who turned the slats 90 degrees to match the frames above. Still kept the 4" board in the front.

All of these guys were focussed on air flow in the hive, and adding some dead air space below the colony. Simply making a deep bottom board results in comb being built down below the frames. So it was often called a "false floor", which makes sense. You can attain somewhat similar results by just adding a plywood bottom to some of those deep screened bottom boards I suppose. 

Thanks Little John for insight and photos. 

Serge Labesque is also a fan of the air space below the colony, and the follower boards concept. Rusty at Honey Bee Suite is also a big fan of slatted boards. 

Thanks to Michael Bush for getting "Honey in the Comb" reprinted so I can actually find a copy and understand better Carl's intent. 

Cheers, Phil


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## BecunaBees (Nov 10, 2019)

I know this is an older thread.

But I have found one real positive to the slatted rack. In a moist mite world it keeps burr comb down on the bottom of the frames. This allows for the vaporization wand to not scorch the bottoms of the frames. I made one smolder enough there was smoke this year with the wand.


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