# Natural comb



## high rate of speed (Jan 4, 2008)

Hey Bjorn,if you wait long enough they will pull it all the way down.


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

it is a nice frame of brood


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## dug_6238 (May 9, 2007)

BjornBee said:


> ...Anyone have a tip on how to have the bees attach it without rods, wax or wire?


I know this is not really the recommended method, but I had a couple like this this year, and I cut them off the bottom bars, keeping the cut nice and straight, then put it upside-down in an empty frame sitting on on the bottom bars, with rubber bands running vertically stretched around the frame.

I know this produces some groans, but doing this and puting it between two good drawn (capped or partially capped if you have the opportunity) honestly did yield good results for me on all but one frame. The frame that didn't go well was one that ended up with the top being started a little twisted/crooked. I admit this was because I didn't follow all the natural comb rules laid out in the numerous other posts (nothing for a guide at the top of that frame plus adjacent frames not nicely drawn.) The other frames turned out pretty darned good. The bees built down from the top bar to meet it and in most cases matched it up fairly well. It's all about bee space, and you just have to make sure it won't lean to either side.


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## dug_6238 (May 9, 2007)

You know what, I think I may have misunderstood what you were asking, now that I look at your post a little closer. Please disregard if I did. It's been a long day. Good night.


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

In my experience, sometimes they simply don't ever seem to
get around to attaching it. Even when using wax foundation, they
sometimes chew out the comb above the bottom bar, causing
me to do a double take, thinking, "I thought I had foundation in
here." The wires then make me see that yep, it was foundation.
In foundationless, worker brood comb seems to be the least likely 
to get attached.


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## blackhawkpillc (May 13, 2008)

*Natural Comb*

I was just curious to see why you had a medium frame in a deep hive body? Was this done for any purpose? Thanks DS!


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

blackhawkpillc said:


> I was just curious to see why you had a medium frame in a deep hive body? Was this done for any purpose? Thanks DS!


Drawing comb in the bottom box can always be a challenge as the bees sometimes just stop the comb short as the bottom bar of the frame is within an inch of the floor. So I placed the medium in a deep, thinking perhaps the bees would draw comb down to the bar, fill in the normal gap they leave, and then continue down below the bottom bar to the normal distance to the floor. But as the picture shows, the bees left a gap between the comb and the bottom bar and never attached it anywhere. They did this to all five frames in the nucs.


Maybe as high Rate suggested, they will fill it in. But the bees were bubbling out of the hive and they filled in the hive about as tight as they could with comb. The frame in the picture was the only frame not pulled apart when I lifted the frames out. The other frames with comb hanging below the frame bar, were attached to the bottom of the hive and collapsed when the comb pulled part.

I thought this would of been a neat trick to get full frames of comb that was attached at the bottom also. But it seems not.


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## Oldbee (Sep 25, 2006)

Drill another hole on the frames side bars; 1/2 to 3/4 inch above the bottom bar. Insert your wire and the bees will draw out the comb to the wire and maybe even to the bottom bar. It will provide additional support for the comb if you/others decide to extract/foundationless. The bees want that space to 'communicate', obviously so why fight with them if you want to go foundationless.


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## Ardilla (Jul 17, 2006)

Mine do much the same thing. They quickly draw the comb just short of the bottom bar. They do attach it to the bottom bar eventually. Though some frames were attched the season after they were initially drawn.


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## Dan Williamson (Apr 6, 2004)

This is how I do comb honey. Start with a little piece at the top or nothing and most times they eventually do attach it. I also take comb such as this that is primarily drone comb and use it in drone colonies in meds and deeps. They draw it out just as you show in deeps. Works very well.

They may not attach the entire comb but usually attach it in multiple points around the comb. That said.... I personally wouldn't put it in the extractor for a spin!


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## Troy (Feb 9, 2006)

I have experimented with foundationless frames and I have noticed that they do this in the brood chamber, but they are more likely to attach it in the honey super.

So for really top notch frames, it is the 3rd time that is a charm. 1st time you put the frames in the brood chamber to get them drawn with as small a cell as they will draw (but they'll leave the edges undrawn), then the 2nd time you move them up above the queen excluder and let them finish it out with honey (and they'll fill in the edges too), then you put it back in the brood nest and they will move the honey up and use it for brood again and it will be quite solid at that point.

I find that it all works better if I wire it. I just insert the wire into the frames and give them a starter strip of pure flat wax. Not even foundation, just pure wax that I made by pouring it on a sheet of soaped glass and cutting it into strips. I make the strips about 3/4" wide and then I melt wax in with this thing:

https://www.dadant.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=231

The wax tube fastener works very well. I think the bees like fresh wax better too. If the wax sits around and gets hard and brittle, it doesn't smell good anymore and the bees don't go to it as well.

I keep the frames separate too, because the ones drawn in the super tend to have a lot of drone comb and the ones drawn in the brood chamber are not attached very well, but that is OK because I wired them. If I want comb honey, I just don't wire the ones in the honey super and then I can just cut it out. I usually sell a certain amount of chunk honey so comb I can cut out is fine.


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## jackalope (May 18, 2007)

BjornBee said:


> This is a picture of natural comb. It is a medium frame in a deep box. I wanted to see if the bees would attach the bottom of the comb to the bottom bar, prior to extending the comb down below the bottom bar.


oh, they'll do much, much better than that if necessary! I caught a swarm but found I was a frame short. Took a week before I could get back at it and found this stuck to the inner cover!!!










For "fun" I left it another week and by that time it was full of brood (bottom) and honey (top) so the honey comb came with the cover (which my kids ate - yum!) and the brood stayed in the hive. I pulled out the two frames next to it to get at the brood and rubber banded it into an empty frame.

cheers!


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## ekrouse (Aug 26, 2004)

*Happend to me too*

Hey BjornBee,

I put a swarm into a medium box and left 3 frames out so the bees would fit in. I then put another medium box on top with all 10 frames. I planned to pick up the hive the next weekend and bring it back to my beeyard. Unfortunately bad weather and other matters delayed moving the bees for about 6 weeks. Upon inspecting the hive after moving it I found 3 perfectly drawn natural combs attached to each of the frames directly above. All were full of capped and uncapped brood. I wish I took a picture of it. I moved the frames above a queen excluder so the queen would not lay any more eggs in it. Once all the brood emerged, I cut off the natural comb hanging below each frame before the bees started filling them with honey.

-ekrouse


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