# How Would I Identify American Foulbrood in Unused Comb?



## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

If memory serves, there should be some scale in the lower parts of the cells


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Yeah, scale presence is one indicator. Had there been an infection in a colonies brood this year there will be some, perhaps small, patch of capped brood cells w/ punctured cappings where vegetative AFB may still be found, not yet dried down to scale.

Do you have reason to suspect AFB might be present?


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## Solomon Parker (Dec 21, 2002)

Of course not, but like you say, it's important to be able to recognize the signs.

My comb is nice and sweet smelling and the cells are all empty and polished.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Other than scale, I don't know what else to tell you.

I have heard of a black light being used. Somehow, I guess, the spores flouresce.


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## Riskybizz (Mar 12, 2010)

generally there will be an amount of perforated capped cells (pin holes) along with scattered dead, dried out brood. It takes a trained eye to detect 'scale' amongst the dried cells. We used to hold suspect frames up to bright sunlight tilting the frame until you clearly saw the bottom portion of the cell. The scale is the remaining dried up larve, clinging to the lower portion of the cell wall, that the bees could not remove. One can also use a magnifier to detect.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I had a beekeeper who kept having one or two cases of AFB in his home yard year after year. Knowing there were no other managed or abandoned hives in the area, I asked him where his equipment came from.
"Oh, I got what I have 25 years ago for free. About 4 truck loads. Most of it is still in the upstairs of the barn,"

We went to look at it. I didn't look at more than 6 boxes of old dry comb before I came across scale. That was the source of his disease. We burned all of it, boxes and all. Soon after that he got out of bees.


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## Solomon Parker (Dec 21, 2002)

I do have a couple of lids that came from a commercial beek. They've been on a number of hives for the last seven years or so and without any problems. I also have a handful of used boxes that have likewise been part of a goodly number of hives without any problems. The other night I did consider burning my two ancient 5-frame nucs just for good measure. But I haven't had any indication of brood disease since I've started. The only thing I get nowadays is some very mild dysentery in the spring from a couple hives. 

But it doesn't hurt to be cautious.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Unless there are other reasons for getting rid of the nuc boxes, I wouldn't.


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## Solomon Parker (Dec 21, 2002)

I did have a swarm alight in one of them and then died out, but the comb was cleaned out by another hive and I have seen no negative results from it. That was three summers ago.


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## fish_stix (May 17, 2009)

There's no reason to get rid of the equipment. You could start with all new equipment every year after burning all the previous years' used stuff and still get AFB. Or you could continue to use what you have for the rest of your life and never get AFB. It's a crap shoot! About 15 years ago I had 2 hives turn up with AFB in brand new equipment only months old. The hives came from splits we made from our own hives but none of the others ever had the disease.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Any idea why the swarm died?

However if the cells are clean, you don't have AFB.

A hive that gets so bad it dies of AFB will leave behind a lot of dead brood. It has to, because it is the dieing brood that eventually kills the hive. The larvae are extended out lengthways so if it's left a long time it dries up and that's what's called a scale. Other brood diseases can also leave a scale, the way to tell the difference is the AFB scale will be stuck pretty firmly to the wall of the cell, other types of scale can be picked off easily.

If the dead brood is still fresh you do the ropiness test.

Wether or not you have AFB, good to see you want to be aware. It can happen to anyone and it should be a basic requirement for every beekeeper to be able to identify it.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Scale is pretty noticeable if you're looking for it. You can do a Holts Milk test even on scale, but I would consider scale to be a pretty firm indicator by itself:

http://www.bushfarms.com/beespests.htm#afb


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## Solomon Parker (Dec 21, 2002)

These frames are clean fortunately. Some of them have chunks torn out where the hive excised portions damaged by moths because I didnt notice the deadout quick enough. I just put the boxes on other hives to keep them from getting further destroyed. Next, deciding which ones to melt and which to keep for next year. There are some really pretty well drawn small cell frames in the batch.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Michael Bush said:


> I would consider scale to be a pretty firm indicator by itself:


I would too. Nothing else that I am aware of makes a scale like AFB does.

Field diagnosis of AFB by Apiary Inspectors in NY over the years have been 99% accurate, according to Lab Confirmation by Beltsville Bee Lab. So, if I were you and saw the telltale sign, I wouldn't hesitate to burn it.


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## whix (Feb 3, 2002)

sqkcrk said:


> I wouldn't hesitate to burn it.


He can't, that would be considered a treatment.http://www.beesource.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif


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## Solomon Parker (Dec 21, 2002)

Can't? Antibiotics are treatments. Fire is a manipulation.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Okay, my turn. Applying something to bees and hive parts for the express purpose of control of a disease or pest would be a treatment. Wouldn't it? Such as applying fire to comb in order to disinfect comb from AFB spores. 

No, I don't really see it that way. Not that it matters.


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## whix (Feb 3, 2002)

Definition taken from your forum:
"Treatment: A substance introduced by the beekeeper into the hive with the intent of killing, repelling, or inhibiting a pest or disease afflicting the bees".


From your description, you don't have AFB.
Do what you want.


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## Solomon Parker (Dec 21, 2002)

fftopic:

It's not my forum. I'm not even the sole moderator. It's Barry's like the whole rest of the site.


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## Ted Kretschmann (Feb 2, 2011)

Sol Parker, hold the top bar of the comb in question up towards your belly and point the bottom bar down at a 45 degree angle so the sunlight can shine on the bottom of the cells. If you see what looks like a small black mass with a bump on it, that is what AFB scale looks like. The bump is towards the front of the scale in the cell. That is where the tongue of the larvae is supposed to be. Sometimes you will even see the prepupae tongue sticking up a an angle towards the back of the cell. Old comb that is infected with scale still has a rotten smell to it even after the scale has been dry awhile. So the old sniff test does work. Good comb has a sweet clean smell to it. Years ago, Beltsville Bee Lab and the State Apiarist For the State of Maryland trained a black lab to smell out AFB infected colonies. The dog never missed and could even detect one cell of AFB in a colony. Once the dog detected the disease, she would sit down behind the bee hive and bark. Good Luck with comb sorting. I have seen my fair share of this disease over the years. We average around four cases a year, multiple the number of years. You get the picture. TED


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