# Purdue Ankle-Biting Queen (Varroa Mites beware?)



## drlonzo (Apr 15, 2014)

Yes i have one this season and shes building up quite nicely. Waiting to check the bottom board till I move her to a new box in a week for results.


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## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

drlonzo said:


> Yes i have one this season and shes building up quite nicely. Waiting to check the bottom board till I move her to a new box in a week for results.


 Where did you acquire the Queen?


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

This is what VSH bees do. "Ankle Biters" is a cute name for this desirable trait.

Alex


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## drlonzo (Apr 15, 2014)

Actually the VSH trait is completely different from the Ankle Biters. With VSH it makes the bees aware of the fact there is varroa under the caps of the larva and they actively remove it or uncap the cell which doesn't bother the bees progress but disrupts the varroa's process. 

With Ankle Biters, the bees actively turn into seek and destroy missles. lol They find varroa and actually bite the legs on the varroa off and cause it to bleed out so to speak, also keeps it from climbing back onto another bee.

Here is where I got mine.

Contact Dan O'Hanlon, New Wind Rising Farm [email protected]

729 9th Ave. #86

Huntington, WV 25701

304-691-0548

I will have daughters from Dr. John Harbo's VSH AI Queens. I told Dr. Harbo I would be willing to ship these daughter queens. The cost per queen will be $35 plus overnight shipping charges.

Purdue "Ankle-biter" Queens -- they chew the legs off of varroa mites which have been groomed from fellow bees. $40 plus overnight shipping charges.


Dan is a great guy to talk with about bees and produces good queens.


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## Beesure! (Apr 24, 2012)

Seems to me with this breed Varroa mite problems should be reduced to a minimum ? and a demand for them around the world.


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## drlonzo (Apr 15, 2014)

That's the neatest thing about the bees. Apparently from what I understand, this is a trait that can be expressed within any actual race of bees, and isn't tied to any specific race. What that means for the rest of us beekeepers is that we get a few of these queens that express 90+ % of the trait in the workers, then put them in hives with drone comb and allow them to put the genes out there on wings. Then when virgins mate up from our own stock we end up with hives that express the gene to some degree at least. This is my plan for next year. I'll be getting a few more of these queens and using them for my drone colonies mainly next year. 

It's one of the easiest ways to introduce the genes into the working population in your apiary if you do queen rearing.


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## Beesure! (Apr 24, 2012)

drlonzo, I hope you follow this plan and a year from now you can post your success and we will all bee begin you to sale us all Queens, good luck and may the force bee with you.


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

drlonzo said:


> Actually the VSH trait is completely different from the Ankle Biters. With VSH it makes the bees aware of the fact there is varroa under the caps of the larva and they actively remove it or uncap the cell which doesn't bother the bees progress but disrupts the varroa's process.
> 
> With Ankle Biters, the bees actively turn into seek and destroy missles. lol They find varroa and actually bite the legs on the varroa off and cause it to bleed out so to speak, also keeps it from climbing back onto another bee.


I am not disputing what you are reporting about these Queens. I am saying that ankle biting is a part of the grooming process, which is a part of hygienic behaviors. 
I have found mites that were chewed in my hives. My bees were purchased in the Spring of 2014.
Following is a statement I copied from this website that leads me to my conclusion. 
We measured characteristics known to be associated with varroa-resistance (e.g. hygiene, grooming, reduced postcapping period, etc.) from all colonies during field trials
http://www.ars.usda.gov/Research/docs.htm?docid=2744&page=13
If chewing of mites which were removed from bees is not a part of grooming, then I stand corrected.
I also read, somewhere, that VSH bees will also bite the small appendages the mites use to transfer sperm. I'll have to verify that, I could be mistaken.

Alex


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## GSkip (Dec 28, 2014)

'I also read, somewhere, that VSH bees will also bite the small appendages the mites use to transfer sperm", 

OUCH!inch:


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## rookie2531 (Jul 28, 2014)

I have heard Dan speak and listened and watched his presentation. I like his enthusiasim, but the video i saw was cut short, with no blown up view of the damage to the mite. I admit, i have been a sceptic of the vsh breeds and the jury is still out on the ankle biters too. Because if they "search and destroy", then there would be no need to treat those hives, which he does.


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

plenty of people keep bees that absolutely don't treat for mites with no problems. Their bees are doing something different than most of ours are.


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## DrJeseuss (May 28, 2015)

I don't think 'search and destroy' is quite the case with these... more like, 'hey what's on my back? Someone bite it... again... again. There we go, she's off.' These are not the same as VSH which seem to identify and cull capped cells containing mites, disrupting the mite breeding cycle.


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## rookie2531 (Jul 28, 2014)

Harley Craig said:


> plenty of people keep bees that absolutely don't treat for mites with no problems. Their bees are doing something different than most of ours are.


I never said all people treat, just said, he does.


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## rookie2531 (Jul 28, 2014)

DrJeseuss said:


> I don't think 'search and destroy' is quite the case with these... more like, 'hey what's on my back? Someone bite it... again... again. There we go, she's off.' These are not the same as VSH which seem to identify and cull capped cells containing mites, disrupting the mite breeding cycle.


Like i said, i saw the presentation and the video showed a vsh hive where they would groom the mite off the bee. Then a short video of the ankle biters hive, wherhe bee attacked it as soon as it was introduced in there presence. Just skeptical, is all. Not voting one way or the other yet. Because, i have seen the same reaction to things as my hive tool or my finger. 

So many beeks jump on someone skeptical as myself for being so. I too want the mites to be gone,.


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

rookie2531 said:


> I never said all people treat, just said, he does.



I wasn't directing that at anyone in particular, just stating that some bees are doing something, maybe it is this or a combination of all of the above. If his bees are doing that, it's a shame he doesn't let them and select for the ones that do it well. By treating he's letting bees that don't do it well survive.


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## Kamon A. Reynolds (Apr 15, 2012)

If he is monitoring his hives and only treating those that need treatment that would be a logic business plan. Doing the bond method all he would get is dead hives and no one would be getting any ankle biting bees. As the ones that would collapse would be robbed out by the healthy strong ones and the mites and virus would hop right on over.


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## DrJeseuss (May 28, 2015)

Harley Craig said:


> .If his bees are doing that, it's a shame he doesn't let them and select for the ones that do it well. By treating he's letting bees that don't do it well survive.


He had flooded the Purdue bee lab area with biter drones, furthering spread of the trait. As for treatment, hives with a mite issue are treated and requeened from another biter hive, unless there is evidence that despite high levels of mites they are otherwise healthy and biting mites as they should. He has also noted up the line these haveSOME aspect of VSH in the gene pool from generations ago, but not currently selected for.


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## Kamon A. Reynolds (Apr 15, 2012)

It has been a while since I have been up there but I was impressed by their program. I wish Tennessee had half of what they do. We are not much of a beekeeping "state"


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

A person in Florida is raising bees for the same or similar trait, what he calls AlloGrooming bees, and he has a webpage here... 
http://www.carpentersapiaries.com/Pages/default.aspx


Allogrooming

A) varroa mauling - chewing and biting the mites which kills them .
B) selection involves montering for chewed mites on the bottom board

1. Test for Varroa Mite Grooming (allogrooming)

The way we check for mite kill is to use a bottom board that will accept a pan with a 1/8 inch hardwire cloth cover, in which we place a piece of freezer paper sprayed with cooking spray. We pull the pan after a few hours during the day.(Do not leave over night as the bees clean more at night and the pan will have too much debris) look through the droppings for mites. Then we put mites found under a 30x glass and look for mites that have been pinched and killed during the grooming process, count the number pinched compare to the number not pinched and killed. We only use queens for breeders that have a 75% or more pinched rate. 

Typical Queens
We sell ccd/mite resistant Italian queens developed by the allogrooming survival method,That do not destroy brood by removing it as VSH bees do. A Mite resistant Queen lessens the need for chemical mite controls resulting in money saved and a healtier chemical free colony We have used no Varroa treatment since spring of 2005


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

Tennessee's Bees LLC said:


> If he is monitoring his hives and only treating those that need treatment that would be a logic business plan. Doing the bond method all he would get is dead hives and no one would be getting any ankle biting bees. As the ones that would collapse would be robbed out by the healthy strong ones and the mites and virus would hop right on over.



seems to be working for the guy in the link ray posted. He's breeding for the same trait and hasn't treated for mites since 2005


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## Kamon A. Reynolds (Apr 15, 2012)

So it seems.


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