# Bees on the ground ?



## G'ville beek (Jul 2, 2012)

Could just be older bees wearing out and dieing off, They will work up until they just fall over. 
Could be other things too, are the wings deformed? (verroa mite) Were the wings (all 4) exposed? could be nozema, Do a mite drop test, i use the sticky board method, this will tell ya if the mites are a problem.
Overall I would check all of above and then take it from there, but I bet they foragers just finishing their days.


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## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

A few is usually normal and it is normal not to notice everything as the bees are training you. We always think our first child is sick with every sniffle, warm feeling and cough. the second kid we want more symptoms before rushing out to wait in the doctor's office fulll of sick people.
If they are this sick after a couple weeks you really got taken for a ride by whoever sold the lot.


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## JMat (Jan 18, 2012)

I'm a first year beek so take this for what it's worth... 

I agree with all the other responses but have also found that in the evening when orientation flights are going on or just ending I've found that there are a few very young bees that end up on the ground. As I've watched the bees I always notice a few youngsters that just don't seem strong enough, land on the ground and buzz around there until they eventually take off. For me this is a late afternoon/evening event but the ones I see doing this during the day usually appear to be bees that have just worked themselves to death.


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## Sam Fugate (Jul 28, 2012)

I went out this evening and sat beside the hives for observation for about an hour and discovered what is going on. This is what I saw. Three bees came out of the hive with a fourth bee in tow. They drug it to the edge of the hive and dumped it overboard. Two of the bees turned loose and the third bee held onto it untill they hit the ground and then flew back into the hive. I notied that the fourth bee (the one that was being extracted) looked like its wings were chewed off and it appeared to be darker in color than the other bees. Could these be robbers that the bees are warding off ? Or are the bees getting rid of the sick ones ? I am planning on putting a screened bottom board on tomorrow so I can begin to check for mites. Again I look forward to some expert opinions here and appreciate the help.


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## activematrix (May 10, 2012)

Sam Fugate said:


> Three bees came out of the hive with a fourth bee in tow.


Sounds to me like your hive is probabll either getting rid of some old workers (they will literally forage until their wings are too messed up to fly) or your hive could be ditching it's drone population because of a nectar dearth. Both of these scenarios are normal. If you see a war going on at the hive entrance, it could be robbing, but in this case it doesn't sound likely. I wouldn't worry too much unless you start seeing a pile of dead bees, or other symptoms.


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## ky_mike (May 9, 2011)

Look closely at the extracted bees wings and see if they look shriveled up. I had the same scenario and it was bees pulling out other bees with deformed wing virus which was caused by a varroa infestation.


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## activematrix (May 10, 2012)

If that is the case - and you have a varroa problem 2 weeks into keeping bees then you need to find a new bee source!


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## Sam Fugate (Jul 28, 2012)

They didn't really look shriveled up, more chewed off, I will look closer tomorrow, and if I can I will try and get a picture. I also should add, I have only seen two of these particular instances, in the past week, If this is a varoa problem, how do get rid of them ?


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## wadehump (Sep 30, 2007)

activematrix said:


> If that is the case - and you have a varroa problem 2 weeks into keeping bees then you need to find a new bee source!


all hives have mites and i mean all of them some just handle them better than others


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## activematrix (May 10, 2012)

Absolutely! But if he has a varroa PROBLEM after two weeks then his source obviously sold him bees with a very high mite count, which is irresponsible to say the least.


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## Sam Fugate (Jul 28, 2012)

I put my screened bottom board on today, how long should I wait to check for mites ?


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## activematrix (May 10, 2012)

You can do it after the sticky board has been under the screen for 24 hours. Here is a link to an article explaining how to do a mite drop count. 
http://www.littlehouseonthebighill.com/beekeeping/index.php?detail=43


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## BeekeepingIsGood (Aug 12, 2012)

There's a bit of a range in how tattered bees with deformed wing virus will appear. Sometimes the wings are not actually deformed at all, but I'd expect at least some would be very shrivelled if you had a serious case of it. I have a few different photos here.


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## Sam Fugate (Jul 28, 2012)

I checked my white sticky board this evening, I do have an infestation of some kind of critter. They are a tiny brown looking football shaped looking thing and I saw several of them. I need to get rid of these things somehow, Help !


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## ky_mike (May 9, 2011)

How many?


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## activematrix (May 10, 2012)

If the sticky board has been on for 24 hours and you find 8 or less of them, dont worry. 8-15, you should consider treatment. More than that, and you have a serious problem and need immediate intervention. They definitely sound like varroa mites.


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## Sam Fugate (Jul 28, 2012)

There was as near as I could count 10, they are so small almost like a piece of dirt. Positive on 10. What is the consensus on the BEST way to treat these ? I will add at this point, my second hive isn't showing any symptoms of mites , However the bee population is not as big as the infested hive.


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## activematrix (May 10, 2012)

There are several methods, ranging from powdered sugar dusting (dislodges mites) and using drone sized foundation to organic formic acid based miticides, and traditional miticides. Whichever option you choose, you can search the forums because there are many detailed posts explaining each option. Only you can decide whether to take IPM procedures, organic, or conventional. I personally recommend that you read this article for future reference. It is too late for this year, but it works well and you can do it for free, every year, and it required no pesticides.


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## Sam Fugate (Jul 28, 2012)

activematrix said:


> There are several methods, ranging from powdered sugar dusting (dislodges mites) and using drone sized foundation to organic formic acid based miticides, and traditional miticides. Whichever option you choose, you can search the forums because there are many detailed posts explaining each option. Only you can decide whether to take IPM procedures, organic, or conventional. I personally recommend that you read this article for future reference. It is too late for this year, but it works well and you can do it for free, every year, and it required no pesticides.


Thanks for the link, I had rather NOT use chemicals and the article you point out is a must read,something I will put to good use.


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## activematrix (May 10, 2012)

Awesome! Glad i could spread the good word! As for now, its probably too late for a drone frame, since they would need to draw it out. You COULD try requeening if you can find and kill your queen... I hear powdered sugar works good although ive never tried it. I have also heard that a small bunch of fresh english thyme under the inner cover works. 

Where did you get your bees?


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## Sam Fugate (Jul 28, 2012)

activematrix said:


> Awesome! Glad i could spread the good word! As for now, its probably too late for a drone frame, since they would need to draw it out. You COULD try requeening if you can find and kill your queen... I hear powdered sugar works good although ive never tried it. I have also heard that a small bunch of fresh english thyme under the inner cover works.
> 
> Where did you get your bees?


I got them (two working hives) from an old guy close to where I live. I am wondering if I should tell him about the problem ? I may try requeening if I can find one. If not I'll do the powdered sugar thing.


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## activematrix (May 10, 2012)

I would definitely let him know. If he is selling bees, they should be very near mite free when you get them. In order to requeen to kill mites, you dont buy a new one. You need the break in the brood cycle while the new queen is reared. You find the queen, kill her and check in a week or so for queen cells. As long as you find some you close the hive and dont touch it for at least a month. The break in the brood cycle kills off most of the mites, and the few ones left all crowd into the first few new cells to be capped. Those few brood die, killing the mites in the cell with them. At that point you have a virile new queen and almost no mites, which is just about the best way you can ever hope to go into fall.


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## Sam Fugate (Jul 28, 2012)

Thanks again,
Looks like I will treat them with sugar for now . 
Also the screened bottom board should help some, at least now
When they drop they have no chance of getting back into the hive.


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