# Honey woes



## ACBeelady (May 21, 2016)

I have healthy hives that seem to thrive in their own brood boxes. My concern is that for the 2nd year, I don't see much activity in the honey supers. They will make plenty in the large supers, but hardly any wax has been drawn out and just a few bees are hanging out in the honey supers. Last year I replaced the queen excluder, made all new frames and still nothing. Any thoughts would be appreciated.


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

Getting bees to move into a super on foundation can be difficult. There are many good beekeepers in your area who can answer your questions better than I. While waiting a little more info would be helpful such as, how many brood boxes are you using, what size are they, foundation or no. When you say,"They will make plenty in the large supers", are you talking about backfilling the brood chamber? If you are, they may be about to swarm. How many frames are covered with bees? The more details the better. 
The weather in my area has been cold and raining for a few days. If it has been in your area everyone will have a busy day today as the skies cleared last night and it is Saturday, a very busy day for the beekeepers with regular jobs.
Good luck,

Alex


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## ACBeelady (May 21, 2016)

AHudd said:


> Getting bees to move into a super on foundation can be difficult. There are many good beekeepers in your area who can answer your questions better than I. While waiting a little more info would be helpful such as, how many brood boxes are you using, what size are they, foundation or no. When you say,"They will make plenty in the large supers", are you talking about backfilling the brood chamber? If you are, they may be about to swarm. How many frames are covered with bees? The more details the better.
> The weather in my area has been cold and raining for a few days. If it has been in your area everyone will have a busy day today as the skies cleared last night and it is Saturday, a very busy day for the beekeepers with regular jobs.
> Good luck,
> 
> Alex


Thanks Alex. I don't put honey supers on until almost all of my 2 large brood boxes have drawn comb and honey. I do use foundation which they will build cells on in the brood chambers. I was sure the foundation had the appropriate cell size. That was my only guess as to the delay in building onto the honey foundations. I don't see any pattern that concerns me in the cell building of the brood foundation areas. Our spring has been much cooler and longer than usual so I'm hoping I'm getting anxious early.


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## gunter62 (Feb 13, 2011)

Do you have foundation over a queen excluder? If so, remove the excluder until they have the foundation drawn and are storing nectar.


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

Gunter is dead on - They don't call an excluder a honey blocker for nothing - Now I know they have there place but not between the brood nest and foundation


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## Dave Burrup (Jul 22, 2008)

Definitely get rid of the honey excluder. Bees want to store honey above the brood. If you wait until they have a honey cap above the brood and then put a super on sometimes they will not cross the honey cap. To get around this reverse the brood boxes assuming there is brood in both boxes. This will put brood up next to the honey super without a honey cap. Usually the bees will build comb and store honey above this brood. If you split the brood doing this it should not be a big problem this time of the year in Tenn, it should be warm enough and the colonies strong enough to take car of this.


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## Dave Burrup (Jul 22, 2008)

Another point if there is a bunch of capped honey in the bottom brood box, that was the top box, scratch the cappings lightly. This will cause them to move it above the brood.


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

many votes for pull the excluder.. this is a rare time when a bunch of beekeepers agree on something.


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

ever see a wild hive with an excluder?


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## keeper (Jan 29, 2012)

Put your super of foundation between the two brood chambers, splitting the brood chamber will cause them to draw out the foundation. And I agree with the comments to get rid of the excluder.


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

I disagree with ya keeper - why would you split a brood nest - this stresses the bees and makes it harder for them to move supply's around and keep the brood warm. If your going to split a brood nest add a top and bottom and make a split. Just my option


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## keeper (Jan 29, 2012)

sakhoney said:


> I disagree with ya keeper - why would you split a brood nest -


Because it puts the bees in overdrive in order to fix it, it forces them to draw out the frames that are dividing the brood nest. It's a technique I have used many times in the past to both get frames drawn and expand the brood nest of strong colonies to dissuade swarming activities.


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## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

Welcome!


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## ACBeelady (May 21, 2016)

Thanks to everyone for their input on the excluder. I removed my excluders yesterday. One hive actually had comb built on the bottom of the excluder. So I appreciate the timely feedback. I'm new to the forum and it was a great start! Have a blessed day!


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

excluders have their place as a tool. driving the queen down and putting an excluder on for a month before honey removal is one of them. the excluder is needed to produce nice cut comb or other comb honey for retail. some do not use them at all. excluders must be removed before winter, newer beekeepers tend to over use them. go easy with the the excluder for a couple of years. excluders can keep a new colony from drawing comb and expanding, there is no need for an excluder the first year in most areas.


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## Dave Burrup (Jul 22, 2008)

The first part of August we check our supers for brood. If we find any we put and excluder on after making sure the queen is not in the super. We extract the end of August so this gives the brood time to emerge. The other bees will back fill the area occupied by brood, so we have supers with no brood for extraction.


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

well keeper - if it works it works - but we all agree - it has to be on a honey flow to get foundation pulled - yes????


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

keeper said:


> Put your super of foundation between the two brood chambers, splitting the brood chamber will cause them to draw out the foundation. And I agree with the comments to get rid of the excluder.


splitting the brood chamber like that will very likely cause them to make queen cells in the half without the queen.


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

sakhoney said:


> well keeper - if it works it works - but we all agree - it has to be on a honey flow to get foundation pulled - yes????


 or a fake honey flow with syrup.


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## keeper (Jan 29, 2012)

clyderoad said:


> splitting the brood chamber like that will very likely cause them to make queen cells in the half without the queen.


It doesn't because you are placing a box of foundation in between, not dividing it with a box of honey like is done in cell starter hives. It isn't some outlandish practice that I invented, there are bee books that discuss this manipulation in detail. (mainly old world books) Also if you read anything on TBH manipulations it is a practice done to get bars drawn, only it is done horizontally instead of vertically. Checker-boarding also is essentially splitting up the brood nest.

Off course you need a nectar flow or supplemental feeding and a pretty strong hive.


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

keeper said:


> Off course you need a nectar flow or supplemental feeding and a pretty strong hive.


 good point a weaker hive will only draw a minimum of comb. this is why weak nucs and latter season or weak packages are so hard to build up. it is difficult to get comb drawn on foundation and even more difficult to to get it done with foundation-less or on a top bar with a smaller or later season colony. you can end up with a hive not ready for winter. with no support [wire, foundation, plastic foundation] comb drawn with syrup for feed is really fragile.


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