# Bee Space and Wedged Shaped Top Bars



## TheBeeLoudGlade (Jan 31, 2017)

I understand the need for 'bee space' but there are some nuances that I need help with for TBHs:

1) Does bee space apply to the length of the starter strip or wedge? I.E. should the top bar fit snugly side to side in the hive, with a little wiggle room, or with a full 3/8" in each end...or more? 

2) Do the bees travel between the walls and the comb or just "in the space between two combs" and "in the space between the bottom of the combs/floor"? 

3) Do wedge shaped bars need to have 3/8, (or 3/16?) indented flat walls on each side of the wedge, or can the wedge continue up to the top bar? I'm milling my own wedge shaped bars, pic attached, but realize that where two bars touch at the roof of the hive, the bee space is zero (and then expands down with the wedge shape). 

4) Will the bees affix their comb at whatever hieght they want on the wedge, or build cross comb at the top of the bars?

I know there is a lot of experience here, so Thanks in advance.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

I don't know the answer to all your questions.









This is what I use and it seeps to be working ok. I would think going all the way to the next bar would not be that much differrent as the bees will build bee space in for themselves. I would think if your bars are the proper width, that what you have would be good.

If I am wrong, I am sure someone will come along and correct me.
Good luck
gww


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## Duncan151 (Aug 3, 2013)

TheBeeLoudGlade said:


> I understand the need for 'bee space' but there are some nuances that I need help with for TBHs:
> 
> 1) Does bee space apply to the length of the starter strip or wedge? I.E. should the top bar fit snugly side to side in the hive, with a little wiggle room, or with a full 3/8" in each end...or more?
> 
> ...


Hope this helps


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## Cardiac_cadet (Feb 24, 2017)

I'm glad you asked question #2. I was wondering myself if bees used only the space between the frames/bottom of the hive to move about or if there should be some space between the frames/wall as well.


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

yes, the bees use the space between the walls and the comb. quite a bit actually in the TBH. All mine have windows so I can see what is happening. Some years the winter cluster is even on the window side. https://www.facebook.com/topbarbeehive/videos/1661178323908691/


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

1) In my top bar hives the bees quit building at the edges of the wedges on the bars. A couple were a bit short and it caused some "wonkiness"
2) yes, they travel on the sides of the hive but they're main route is the bottom. Sometimes they'll attach combs to the side and you have to cut it loose with a long knife. Usually they give up on that after being corrected once. 
3) I think I'd measure the width of the hive and make the wedges 3/4 inch shorter. (3/8 on each side)
4) They do what they do


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## Cardiac_cadet (Feb 24, 2017)

So how much space should be between the edge of the frame/wall?


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## Chris G (Feb 26, 2017)

its been my experience that bees will build comb to their needs and usually attach some comb on sidewalls or often leave space to move around the ends. every colony is different and no matter what you do they will do what they see fit for them. burr comb seems to be a problem for most beekeeps but its useful to bees to regulate their hive atmosphere.


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

Cardiac_cadet said:


> So how much space should be between the edge of the frame/wall?


If you are using frames, 3/8" If you're using just a top bar, the bees take care of the space needed.


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

my comb guides end about 1/2 inch to 3/4 inch before they reach the edge wall. I don't know that it has to be exact spacing, but it may help them not attach it to the side walls. I find the more frequently I am inspecting and removing bars, the less attachment I get to the sides. For those who like to leave the combs in there and not inspect every 10-14 days, end up with a mess of broken combs when they do finally get in there.


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## bentonkb (May 24, 2016)

Having your comb guide touching the side of the hive will encourage the bees to glue it in place. Better to leave one beespace or a bit more. 

The bees will usually attach soft new comb to the sides completely except for a few holes. If you cut it loose with a thin knife and replace the bar back in the same position after inspection, the bees will put the attachments back and you will have to cut them each time. It gets tiresome. TIP: cut the comb off the hive wall 3/8" away from the wall and scrape the wax off the wall. When you replace the comb there will be a beespace between it and the wall that the bees will (mostly) preserve. It greatly reduces the side wall attachments and speeds up inspections.


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## cohutt (Feb 13, 2017)

1. My experienced is that a starter strip or wedge doesn't have to go close to the end of the bar/walls. I've just put something in the middle leaving an inch or two of the top bar without anything and they've always continued the comb straight once off the guide. 
2. Yes, they are moving between the comb and walls continuously, the glass in my window have many bees moving on it whenever I peek in. 

not sure exactly what you are asking in 3 &4


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

cohut
I have had the bees start to curl the comb near the end of the top bar to where it was going to be attached the the frame beside it. Each comb as they built got progressivly worse. This was with a good wedge guide all the way to the end. I started with zero comb. Once I got some comb, I did my best to put empties between two well drawn combs. I think it is important to go pretty close to the edge with the guide and that you still have to watch a little. I pushed the comb back to get it back on track and it is soft and will all break off when new. I am new and still learning and in the end, it wasn't such a big hassel to worry about if you kept on top of it. They will also make it fat enough to go into two frames but if you catch it you can put it against other combs and they seem to cut it back down. I like the wedge so far but do think it probly works better with the guide coming pretty close to the edges.
Cheers
gww


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## cohutt (Feb 13, 2017)

What I failed to mention you hit on- 
using good drawn comb for an adjacent guide eliminates most issues regardless of the type of bar guide. I'll insert two or sometimes three bars at a time when they are drawing but I never put empty bars next to each other anymore if I can help it. 

I enjoy the top bar hive but wouldn't have one if it weren't in my backyard where I can check it often during spring & summer. Once you get them drawing straight comb it is easy but it has to happen right away or it will be an ongoing mess of cross comb.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Cohutt


> I enjoy the top bar hive but wouldn't have one if it weren't in my backyard where I can check it often during spring & summer.


I don't think (if it is possible) that I would start bees in the beginning if it wasn't in my back yard. Maby later when things come a little easier, I might put some hives in a more distant place but I like and need the back yard till then.


I do think if it was more of a job then just a hobby that distant hives might not be a hassel, it would be git up and go to work. It would not be too much worth it for a hobby learning type thing for me. 
Cheers
gww


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