# oxalic acid vapor with supers



## buzzhageman (Jul 25, 2011)

Yes or no must they be pulled before treatment?


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

Recommendation is to pull before treatment, however, there are a couple of studies that indicate that it does not enter capped honey. Remember that it is not approved for bees in this country.


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## buzzhageman (Jul 25, 2011)

camero7 it was just a hypothetical ? How are your bees in Milbury I am also in Massachusetts


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

I think my bees hypothetically inhaled some oxalic vapor this week... bees are doing well... still a good flow going.


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## buzzhageman (Jul 25, 2011)

hypothetically speaking glad to hear all is well


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## rweakley (Jul 2, 2004)

Hypothetically speaking, take the supers off, treat, then put the super back on. From someone who hypothetically knows what he is talking about. There is already oxalic acid in honey, but don't think we need to chance adding more.


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## buzzhageman (Jul 25, 2011)

You guys are awesome!!!!!


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

I hypothetically remove the supers, regardless of whether the honey is capped or not, before I hypothetically treat with OA vapor. That way, I never have to worry about it. Truth told, the process of moving the supers...if present...takes longer than treating. Hypothetically speaking of course.


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## kjbann (Jun 30, 2009)

Hypothetically, isn't it recommended to wait until all brood is hatched before "vapor" treatments? Have some frames to bleach, but thought it would at best not be as effective and at worst, kill brood. What's the take from the "experienced" crowd?
Ken


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

No need to wait, vapor does not kill brood IMO... you want your winter bees healthy so earlier treatment is better... but you do have to do multiple treatments because oxalic [dribble or vapor] does not kill mites in brood.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

camero7 said:


> there are a couple of studies that indicate that it does not enter capped honey.


Oxalic vapor condenses on every surface in the hive...including the cappings. I think extracting supers after vaporizing would get oxalic in the honey.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

Where could I hypothetically get oxalic acid and instructions for hypothetically applying it? Is it more effective / safer than Hopguard?


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

At my local True Value, I can buy "wood bleach" which is oxalic acid. Here is a link to a vaporizer that I've read about:

http://www.members.shaw.ca/orioleln/vaporizer.html

I don't have any experience with Hopguard and I'm anxious to learn more.


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

Michael Palmer said:


> Oxalic vapor condenses on every surface in the hive...including the cappings. I think extracting supers after vaporizing would get oxalic in the honey.


I agree, I do pull my supers before using it.


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## Timothy (Jul 24, 2006)

Do the crystals formed by vaporization stay in the hive forever, if you were to vaporize a hive with a super on could you harvest from that super the following season.


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## rweakley (Jul 2, 2004)

it's not worth the risk, just DON"T vaporize with the supers on. As mentioned you can get it at the hardware store, it is sold as wood bleach, but make sure there is nothing else in there, it should be almost 100% oxalic. Multiple ways to apply it, If I were to hypothetically use it I would use the crack pipe version.  10 bucks or so from a plumbing section, don't forget your propane torch and face mask. I've heard you are supposed to heat it slowly and consistently till it vaporizes.
ROd


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

The crack pipe gives inconsistent results... too hot or not hot enough and you don't get the vapors you need. I think the vaporizer is the best way to go for vapor. I would use the dribble method before I would use the pipe. Ideally some of the oxalic turns to formic during the vaporization process. Problem with the dribble is that it is only good once a year. Lots of very good and reliable info here:
http://scientificbeekeeping.com/the-learning-curve-part-3-the-natural-miticides/


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## ktmwoodsrider (Feb 6, 2011)

So... can supers be removed, and re-installed right after treatment? We have 4 hives setup next to each other. Had 1 hive getting robbed, went in to find it was a deadout. Lots of mites on the bottom board, and some on bees. Want to treat the other 3 hives, since they were probably doing the robbing(and probably bringing mites back to their hive). Took no honey from the bees this year, all hives have 3 mediums of honey on them. Don't want to mess up the honey, in case they have a bunch left over in the spring... which we could harvest.

Thanks,
Rick


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