# Karo syrup = bad for bees?



## gone2seed (Sep 18, 2011)

Isn't Karo just HFCS?Commercial beeks use that for feed.
HFCS =high Fructose corn syrup.


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## beegeorge (Apr 19, 2012)

did the speaker say WHY you should not use Karo? I tend to not believe anyone that cannot provide evidence to back their claims.

call me a skeptic,, but I am what I am,,,,


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## NW_Mark (Jan 23, 2012)

No first hand information but found this


http://www.mannlakeltd.com/newsletter/fall-feeding.pdf


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

Karo syrup has vanilla flavoring added. I dont know if that has anything to do with not being usable. Also, feeding straight karo would be extremely expensive. 

That said, if you made some candy with a little karo syrup and a lot of cane sugar, I wouldnt worry about using it.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

gone2seed said:


> Isn't Karo just HFCS?


Karo is corn syrup, but HFCS (high Fructose corn syrup) is not the same as ordinary corn syrup. More on that here:



> *What is high fructose corn syrup and how is it different from regular corn syrup?*
>  
> Corn syrup is a sweetener derived from fresh corn picked and processed at its peak state of flavor and sweetness. This is in all Karo Corn Syrup products used for baking sold in retail stores. By contrast, high fructose corn syrup starts with regular corn syrup, which is modified by further processing and treated with enzymes to break it into two different forms of sweetness, fructose and glucose.
> 
> http://www.karosyrup.com/faq.html


Karo syrup was on the market for decades before HFCS was developed.



> When Karo was first introduced in 1902, it contained 0 grams of high fructose corn syrup. Like the original, all Karo Corn Syrup products used in baking that you can purchase today contain 0 grams of high fructose corn syrup. Karo will never add high fructose corn syrup to current consumer products or introduce new corn syrup products containing high fructose corn syrup.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

Karo is just corn syrup, not HFCS, it does have some Vanilla added but I've seen you can spray your bees with vanilla to mask scents so it shouldn't be an issue and I don't think there's much in it anyway. I like it on waffles and pancakes.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

Nabber86 said:


> That said, if you made some candy with a little karo syrup and a lot of cane sugar, I wouldnt worry about using it.


While I doubt that I'll go through the trouble to make it again, I have used one ounce of Karo syrup per pound of sugar when making fondant.

I would use the candy...


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## A. S. Templeton (Nov 30, 2009)

BeeCurious said:


> ...I would use the candy...


I would not. HFCS is not a food interchangeable with sugar, despite the Corn Refiner's Association propaganda and recent failed petition to the USFDA to have the stuff relabeled "corn sugar". Consider these facts (cited in my book; shameless plug):

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HFCS::
High Fructose Corn Syrup, an artificial sweetener enzymatically produced from maize starch; commonly fed to honey bee colonies cultured in forage-dearth regions; an industrial artifact displacing natural sweeteners in many commercially-prepared foods and beverages.

Despite its name, the fructose in HFCS (and ordinary corn syrup) is _*not *_identical to the L-fructose found in fruit and honey: HFCS contains high proportions of D-fructose, a naturally rare “mirrored” version of reversed isomerization and optical polarity; the relative 13C/12C carbon isotope balances of maize- vs. fruit- or honey-derived fructose also differ.

The direct relative health effects—in either bees or mammals—of HFCS D-fructose vs. natural L-fructose have not been well-researched, but the fructose breakdown product HMF is known to be toxic.

HMF::
5-(hydroxymethyl)-2-furfuraldehyde, aka Hydroxymethylfurfural; a decomposition product of levulose (fructose) in solution; HMF is present naturally in small amounts in honey. Overheated or very old honey and most corn syrups, especially HFCS, can be very high in HMF, a condition quite toxic to honey bees and which may have human health adverse effects.

,,,(Neonicotinoids) like Imidacloprid are so widely used that a beekeeper feeding HFCS to a colony for spring buildup or during a dearth is likely administering a stealth dose of biocide. Truly insidious!
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As you might know by now, the jury's pretty much in that neonicotinoids, even in nanogram dosages, have profoundly negative effects on all insects, and on honey bees in particular. HFCS is scheiss and does not belong in anybody's food supply, mammal or insect.

Alex Templeton
Beekeeping for Poets


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## New Ky Beekeeper (Jun 27, 2011)

I had some given to me that was just past the due date and I fed it to mine in an open feeders away from the hives. No problems. Maybe because I didn't feed them but a couple of bottles...... ?

Phil


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## MeriB (Mar 15, 2010)

I called the company last year as I had the same questions. Karo syrup has been reformulated and no longer contains HFC. I deceided not to use it. My receipe (from Brushy Mtn) said 2:1 syrup could be substituted. I did and my bees LOVED it.

Blessed Bee and Good Luck!
Meridith


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

I think there is a lot of confusion here....karo syrup is corn syrup, not HFCS. It isn't helpful to mislead. HMF occurs in many (if not all) sugar solutions, including honey. BS is another acronym that deserves mentioning in this thread. No one has ever documented imidacloprid in HFCS...ever.

deknow (who would not feed his bees karo syup anyways, and who abhors misinformation, especially from those that would profess to know better).


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

First, if my old brain hasn’t misfired, it seems like there used to be dark and light Karo syrup. If so, I would definitely not feed them the dark.
Second…my old admonition….......when in doubt…leave it out.


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## Grant (Jun 12, 2004)

Sounds like a typical case of "I heard a speaker say..." where something was not heard completely. Or the speaker went to fast for us slow writers who try and take notes.

My guess? He was referring to dark Karo syrup, which I would not feed. Likewise we do not feed molasses or brown sugar.

Grant
Jackson, MO


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## seyc (Jul 15, 2012)

Grant said:


> Likewise we do not feed molasses or brown sugar.


Who is "we" and why are they not fed to the bees?


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

seyc said:


> Who is "we" and why are they not fed to the bees?


"We", would be beekeepers in general.

"Why"? The solids in dark sugar are not healthy for bees. The bee's digestive systems are not up to the task....


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## seyc (Jul 15, 2012)

BeeCurious said:


> The bee's digestive systems are not up to the task....


I am curious about this. Where can I find more information about this? All I could find on PubMed in reference to "apis" and "molasses" or "brown sugar" was a paper talking about contamination of Botulism Type A, B, and C in "sugar for apiculture" and how that may lead to contaminated honey. Then they go on to say that the Botulism Type A was found in "raw sugar and molasses."

Where can I find something that would tell me, with the same detail as PubMed, what exactly it is in/about the bees' digestive system that cannot handle molasses/brown/unrefined sugar?


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

A. S. Templeton said:


> I would not. HFCS is not a food interchangeable with sugar, despite the Corn Refiner's Association propaganda and recent failed petition to the USFDA to have the stuff relabeled "corn sugar". Consider these facts (cited in my book; shameless plug):


Karo syrup does not contain HFCS.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

seyc said:


> Where can I find something that would tell me, with the same detail as PubMed, what exactly it is in/about the bees' digestive system that cannot handle molasses/brown/unrefined sugar?


The link below addresses the issues you ask about, but it is simply an abstract. However, the studies it references may be helpful. You may have some difficulty finding all of those studies _online_, however.
http://www.beesource.com/resources/...n-selecting-sugars-for-feeding-to-honey-bees/


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