# new fogger



## clintonbemrose (Oct 23, 2001)

I just purchased a new Burges propane fogger for the comming season for FGMO. Should I clean it before use ? Also does it need to be cleaned after use as the instructions in the box say ?

------------------
Clinton Bemrose


----------



## Dr. Pedro Rodriguez (Feb 5, 2002)

Hello Clinton and other beekeepers.
The answer is no to both questions provided that you use food grade mineral oil. All you have to do is to add FGMO to the canister, hook up a bottle of propane, light up the foggeer, wait for it to get real hot and you will be ready to go. Just make sure that you read up on prior postings in the forum so that you will know do's and don'ts and you will be perfectly happy. 
Please do not hesitate to write again if you still have questions. That is part of the normal process of getting to know how.
Happy holidays to all and a very happy productive, mite free FGMO users and of course all other beekeepers season (next!)
Pedro


----------



## fat/beeman (Aug 23, 2002)

hi DR.
I have a silly question=is fgmo same as cannola oil or food grade oils that you use in cooking?
thanks=Don


----------



## Dr. Pedro Rodriguez (Feb 5, 2002)

Hello all.
FGMO stands forfood grade mineral oil. It is non-toxic, does not change in composition while in use and does not leave a taste, smell of flavor in the hive or hive products. 
Other oils or lard do degrade if used in the hive in the way that FGMO is used and they do leave undesirable by products in the hive and hive products. Also, edible oils maybe more expensive than FGMO. 
I hope that this short simple explanation answers your question.
Best regards.
Dr. Rodriguez


----------



## Jorge (Sep 24, 2002)

Hi Don,

Mineral oil synonyms: Paraffin oil; Heat-treating oil; Hydraulic oil; Cable oil; Lubricating oil; Oil mist, refined mineral; mineral oil mist; oil mist, mineral, severely refined; Uvasol; Paraffin oils; Mineral oil hydrocarbon solvent (petroleum); Mineral oil (saturated parrafin oil); oil, petroleum; Nujol; liquid paraffin; white mineral oil; clearteck; drakeol; hevyteck; filtrawhite; frigol; kremol; kaydol; alboline; paroleine; Saxol; adepsine oil; glymol; lignite oil; blandol white mineral oil; carnea 21; Ervol; gloria; hydrocarbon oils; peneteck; primol; triona b; blandlube; crystosol; Molol; protopet; bayol f; crystol 325; fonoline; bayol 55; kondremul; neo-cultol; oil mist; penreco; perfecta; petrogalar; primol 355; primol d; tech pet f; Petroleum hydrocarbons; jute batching oil; paraffin oil (class); petrolatum, liquid; white oil; Mineral oil, aromatic; Mineral oil, paraffinic; Mineral Seal Oil; Electrical Insulating Oil.

Sorry, I did not mean to be arrogant with this list. I put it here because I was surprised myself with the length of the list of synonyms.

In other words, it is not canola oil. It is a derivative of oil (petrol), the nasty black stuff that we use to extract fuels from, hence "mineral". Canola oil is a vegetal oil (FGVO







. Different mineral oils vary in composition depending on the boiling point of the fractions used. For food purposes usually liquid petrolatum or liquid paraffin are used that consist essentially of n-alkanes and some cyclic paraffins. 

Jorge


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Also, I'm afraid canola oil will flame up at lower temps so probably won't work in the fogger. It might work in other respects against mites, but the research hasn't been done on it. Actually, Don seems to be the one doing the most research on canola oil by using it, so he has done some and it seems to be working, but he's also doing other things and they might be the reason for his success against the mites instead.


----------



## fat/beeman (Aug 23, 2002)

hi all
I was very impressed with all the responce on cannola oil verses fgmo.
I just might give it a try as the more you can learn the better.
I have been a commercial breeder for over 25 yrs and been keeping bees for over 48 yrs. 
I am amased just how much beekeeping has changed over the yrs. and if you don't change with the times you will be a has been beekeeper soon.
I have been useing the natural methods for over 5 yrs now and seem to be haveing good luck.
thanks for all your good info.==Don


----------



## versatile (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi Everyone.I am a first timer and enjoy reading all the comments.I use FGMO and follow the system as designed by Dr.Pedro.I have found it to be a brilliant success.It would be the fastest,cheapest and most cost effective mite control method that I know.I have had hives with syndrome and have been able to bring hives back to full health and production.I am a beekeeper and I just love being able to go and use a system that is well researched,tried and tested.I just use FGMO for all the above reasons and leave the research etc to people who are qualified to do this work.I would not like to see honey banned thru the use of products that could damage the industry unintentionately as has happened as say China.Thanks for all the hard work Dr.Pedro and keep up the research.All you need to do is follow and use the "system" to acheive safe and permanent mite control. 

------------------


----------



## Dr. Pedro Rodriguez (Feb 5, 2002)

Hello folks.
FGMO vs. other kinds of mineral oils. 
A word of caution here. I have been insisting on the words Food Grade Mineal Oil for the last 7 years. There are other kinds of mineral oils but they can be harmful to honey bees and also contaminate bee hive products. 
I have found that Food Grade Mineal Oil with 0.86 density works best for mite control in honey bee colonies. Other types may cause problems especially with the fogger. I appreciate the contributions to the FGMO forum a great deal, so in writing this memo, post, I only wish to remind users again, that although there might be many, and there are, as shown by Jorge, we have to be careful when it comes to chosing mineral oil for this purpose. 
And thank all of you ever so much for your contributions to the FGMO forum.
Best wishes.
Dr. Rodriguez


----------



## Dr. Pedro Rodriguez (Feb 5, 2002)

Hi Michael and other folks.
You are precisely correct. There are other people using organic acids, like thymol for instance, against the mites as an alternative treatment. 
Some of those, in their explanation of their research process they indicate tha they have used FGMO as a vehicle for the thymol. What they are not saying is if they have compared FGMO and thymol to estimate what portion of the results is due to FGMO and what portion to thymol. I am quite satisfied with the results that I am geting with FGMO, and, knowing that mites are known to develop resistance to organic acids as proved by italian investigators, AND I knowing that hell will freeze over before mites develop resistance against FGMO, I am staying with FGMO trying to find more effective and economic means of applying FGMO. I hope that there are others who will make similar attempts. 
Best regards and happy holidays to all.
Dr. Rodriguez


----------



## versatile (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi Everyone.I have an organic certified farm and hence can not use Apistan etc which is a blessing in disguise.I have tried formic acid but found it to be dangerous to use and when it was needed found that the temperatures where too cold for it to work and mites multiplied happily.While all this was happening I had the good fortune to "discover" FGMO.I am so confident that we do not check mite levels and we have had no trouble since we started using on a regular cycle as per Dr. Pedro's recommendations.We have not used any drone trapping as we are breeding queens and all hives are doing well.I have noticed since using FGMO that the bees temperment has improved greatly and are very quiet and easy to handle when mite levels are kept low.Has this been noticed by anyone else?If thymol is used with FGMO as the carrier FGMO will be doing most of the control.
Cheers,
John


----------



## Dr. Pedro Rodriguez (Feb 5, 2002)

Hi John ad all others.
I have the feeling that FGMO alone will do the job, so I have not worked with thymol. Also like John, I feel tha FGMO will be doing the job. In my humble opinion, beekerpers may save time, money and effort by just using FGMO. Thymol has some inherent difficulties while FGMO has none. 
Have a wonderful Holiday season. 
Best regards.
Dr. Rodriguez


----------



## Josef Moser (Dec 7, 2002)

I found this article from other beekeeping group very interesting and my question is, why do I have to use the cord and the fogger and why the treatment so often? Dont tell me it is because of the re infection, I have only one beekeeper near by (3,5km) and he works with vaporizing oxalic acid. 
I asked Dr. Gerhard Liebig from the Landesanstalt für Bienenkunde, Universität Hohenheim and this bee institute tested the fogging method also. He send me an answer and it says, --- I will make it short because Im not a native English speaker and he send me several pages. The main thing means. ---
There are many possibilities to treat the bees without using chemicals like Cumafos, Apistan, Amitraz, Folbex or Gabon etc. 
The fogging method with food grade oil in not as effective like the natural acids, for example Formic Acid, Oxalic Acid, Lactic Acid, etc.
Josef Moser

And now the article:

Hello All,

I have been reading the postings here for quite a while and I wonder why you persist with these oil treatments when they seem to be so ineffective?

I can refer you to [Alpenlandische Bienenzeitung, Suedtiroler Imkerbote] which includes an article on the "Rodriguez Method". 
Test results from several bee-keeping institutes in German and Austria prove it is a treatment but not an effective treatment. 

This is confirmed by and article in "Vida Apicola", a Spanish language bee-keeping magazine where the Varroa treatment is delivered by oil fog an by impregnated cords.

The cords are soaked in a mixture of one part bees was, two parts Vaseline (density 0.85) and one part honey.
When placed in the hive they evaporated Vaseline at low temperature to produce a 'white cloud'. The results are disappointing indeed. Limited success was only possible with highly infected hives and considerable effort on the part of the beekeeper. In hives with low counts, the treatment is virtually useless.

Of course, every beekeeper has the right to decide upon his own course of treatment, but I am confused as to why you persist with this particular method when it seems to be so ineffective? Can I ask why you favour your method?

=======
And I ask also, why you favour your method?


----------



## Dr. Pedro Rodriguez (Feb 5, 2002)

Hello all.

Why do I insist in favoring FGMO?

I, and many others who are using FGMO according to established procedures find that FGMO is a highly effecive method for treating honey bee mites, Varroa and Acarapis.
There are many reasons, as published in this forum and and many others, why FGMO should be utilized for this purpose. 
I, for one, have mite-free colonies that have been treated with nothing but FGMO during the past three years. I welcome anyone who may wish to view my colonies at any time of the year to verify this fact.
Besides being non-toxic, non-contaminating to the bee hive and to nature, being the least expensive method in use the world over, FGMO keeps my bees healthy. Free of mites and other diseases induced by the presence of the mites. As a beekeeper these facts make me extremenly happy.It should make anyone feel the same way if they care for the bees, nature and humanity. 
I get zero income from telling the world about my work, and keep trying to improve methods that will further the health of our bees and keep nature free of contaminants. This is my incentive in favoring a method that has been proven to be effecive against Varroa and Acarapis bee mites. 
The only difference between I and those who who get big monetary rewards for publishing their findings in their research is that I publish my results for free. My rewards comes from reading testimonials about people who put their trust in FGMO and are brave enough to face criticism when they ascertain that their bees are healthy and producing well. 
I am for any system/method that promisess to save our bees and keep our food sources free of pesticides and toxic chemicals. I promise humanity that my goal will stay the course as long as I am healthy and able and there are honey bees to care for. 
My prayers and best wishes for happiness in the coming holiday season to all. God bless you all.
Dr. Rodriguez


----------



## Bigearl (Oct 16, 2002)

Way to go Dr.Rodriguez.


----------



## Jorge (Sep 24, 2002)

Dear Josef and Don Pedro,

For the sake of completeness and of understanding something more about bees and FGMO method, could we try to discuss why these other beekeepers seem to et negative results with this method ?
I find it interesting that they don't have the same results. Tey mention using Vaseline (density 0.85). I guess it is the same stuff, but it may not be and thus the results. Could it be the strain of bees? I wonder if the application method is the same. Anyway, my experience is still too short to tell if the method has worked with my bees, but I like the simplicity (and cost)of this method, but I am curious about these people's complaint.

Jorge


----------



## Dr. Pedro Rodriguez (Feb 5, 2002)

Dear Jorge and all. 
One of the reasons why bee mites have reached the stage at which we find ourserves today is primarily because some people have tried to re-invent the wheel. To put it in pain terms, some beekeepers failed to follow specific given instructins as to the use of synthetic pesticides allowing mites to develop resistance to the "cure." And some still are "going their way" and ignoring recommendations designed to get rid of the pesky mites. The reasons for ignoring the results that have been found to be effective during reasonable and well conducted research trials is beyond anyone's imagination. Those who do not follow recommended instructions are bound to fail and with their failure goes their frustration and readiness to complain about the product's failure without realizing that should they have followed established procedures and specific instructions they would find themselves in the column of those who profess to have had excellent results with their chosen way of treatment. 
I keep reapeating myself day in and day out to people who write and ask if I think that "their" procedure is correct, when in fact what they are asking me is if I approve of some ingenious idea that they have dreamt off during their sleep. It might work, but it certainly will not match the results of years of repeated trials under strict laboratory conditions. Why, you might ask? Because in departing from established procedures and techniques they introduce variants that are bound to produce different results. And there is the possibility that their results will be contrary to the results of those who perform scientific research to arrive at those conclusions. Granted that there is need to attempt to improve existing standards. But those attempts are being conducted by those very same people who arrived at the original standards and definitely are applying scientific standards. There is no reason why beekeepers out there in the world can not apply scientific standares but the likelihood is that they wont for several reasons. One reason, seems to me, is that they lack the time, dedication and expertise to perform tedious time and money consuming experiments. Those that have the money most likely will give it to researchers in the form of grants and go on with their daily ccupations. 
Have I said enough, not likely, but I think that my main point has been made clear. I agree with you, those who follow specific instructions as to methodology and product are likely to be those who are on the "happy" side of the ledger. The other side, will most likely will be made off those who do not! 
In my humble opinion, as time goes on and synthetic pesticides continue to fail, including the newest organic pesticides, that have been declared already as developing resitance, techniques like FGMO and the like that do not offend nature and that do not offer the possiblity of development of resistance to the mites will become the standard bearing procedures in the world. It is a matter of economics, beekeepers are bound to switch to the side that offers them security and rewards in the form of honey. The tendency is being shown slowly but sure and the number is rising. 
Welcome to the world of reality. Truth prevails. Thank you all for your trust.
May the Good Lord keep you all happy and safe during the holiday season.
My very best to you all
Dr. Rodriguez


----------



## versatile (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi Dr.Pedro and Josef.I agree with every thing you have said here Dr. Pedro.I know of beekeepers here in NZ that have tried FGMO and have "listened" to the complaints that it did not work.On seeking clarification on what was done It is amazing to find that an old fogger was used that didnot make 15 micron fog and had killed most of his bees.If FGMO is used with the equipment that is recommended and the way the cords and emolution are supposed to be used this "WORKS" brilliantly.It does not matter what sort of bees they are or where you live in the world FGMO works.In New Zealand we can have 4 seasons in the one day and I can fog in any conditions to adhere to my programme.It is so simple I can not understand why anyone try's to reinvent something that is so basic and tried and tested.I suggest that if you are not prepared to follow the "instructions" for the correct use you not use it.Bad practices give any method a bad reputation so decide on what you are prepared to do before embarking on a course of action.


----------

