# Bee sting fatalities every year in the USA?



## TwT (Aug 5, 2004)

>Does anybody know what the fatal dose from Apis mellifera is? I would guess it is in proportion to the person's weight. Would it be 75 stings? 300 stings? 500 stings? Any MD or EMT beekeepers out there who would have access to that kind of data?

my wife is a RN and when I read your question I asked her if she knows, she said that most people that get stung and die only get stung 1 time(and most of the time it's not bee's, its wasp, yellow jackets or hornets but bee's get alot of thier blame), reason is allergic reaction, the person's airway closes up and with out a eppy. shot they can die. As for as some one not allergic, I think but can't sware that people can get stung 100's of times but its up to the person's health, age, size, ect. the guys out west can answer that one best in the AHB area's, I'm sure they have stories they have read.


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## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

> For some reason, it seems to be popular to tell 
> folks that more people in the USA die of beestings
> than from snakebite.

The statement is very likely strictly true.
But, like 99.999% of anti-beekeeping claims,
it is massively misleading.

The misleading part of the statement is the
assumption that death by snakebite is at all
common. It isn't, except in cowboy movies.

I used to spend quite a bit of time out in
the Florida everglades and along the gulf
coast, so I know a bit about snakes.

Snakes can feel the vibrations of your walking,
and they tend to head in the opposite direction
long before you get near enough to even see them.
Most people will never see a poisonous snake in
their entire life, even those who live near 100
of them. Stepping on one is a near impossibility.

There are only four species of poisonous snakes
in the continental USA. The coral snake, in
the south as far west as Texas, copperheads,
in most of the eastern and mid-western states, and
cottonmouth/moccasin in wetlands as far west as
Texas. Various rattlesnakes can be found all over.

So, right there, if you map snake populations,
you find that something like 75% of the US
population would have to travel hundreds of
miles to simply get to anywhere where a poisonous
snake MIGHT be found. Also, snake habitat is
slowly dwindling, as is all wildlife habitat. 

Now, if they wanted to compare the number of
people killed by a bus with the number of people
that die from a bee sting, one would have a much
better basis for comparison of "relative risk".
And check it out - lots more people are killed
by buses alone every year than by bees.

So, bees are safer than the bus. And when they
outlaw buses, only then can they tell me that
bees are "dangerous". 

Yes, it is sad that people are born with defects,
and one of them is a defect that can turn a insect
sting into an emergency. But these people are
more likely to run into wasps or yellowjackets
than bees, and all of them can and SHOULD be
treated to eliminate their "allergic reaction". 
Johns Hopkins has been a leader in this area for
years.

Remember the "bubble boy", the kid born with
no resistance to anything? I think his name
was David Vetter. By the logic of the people
who think that bees are dangerous, the bubble boy
should have prompted the entire country to be
fitted with a large Plexiglass dome and sterilized
so that he could walk around freely without an
environment suit.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I don't have a "Guiness Book of World Records" in front of me, but as I remember there was a man in Africa who was attacked by honey bees. He fled and they followed. He dived in the river and everytime he came up they were in his mouth and throat. He finally got far enough away they left him and in the hospitial they pullled more than 3000 stingers out of him. I don't remember if that's the exact number or not, but I'm sure it was at least that many.

Of course many have died with less stingers. Find a Guiness Book of World Records. I'm sure no one has tried to beat his record.


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## Mark Johnson (Apr 8, 2004)

Jim, you hit the nail on the head! I'll put that injured-by-a-bus thing to work next time the danger of bees comes up.


I worked as a park ranger in Shenandoah National Park in Virginia in the 1970s, and we did keep records on injuries, as well as how many people were using the park. It was about 3,000,000 people a year back then, and our incidence of poisonous snake bite was maybe one in a 5-year span. There were literally 10's of thousands of people hiking the Appalachian Trail in those years. Looked like a superhighway for hikers. The rangers now say it's a lot less with the Generation-Xers and Yers. They've got people complaining that cellphone reception up on the Mountain is terrible, and there's no e-mail connection for miles!
. 

So to find a rattler in the Blue Ridge Mtns was a rare thing for the average hiker or camper. When we needed a snake to show for a nature/campfire program, the best bet to find one was to look along the low rock walls on the overlooks. People driving along the Skyline Drive stop on the overlooks, sit on the rock walls, and eat snacks. Snack crumbs draw mice. Abundance of mice draws pit vipers like Crotalus horridus.

But back to "bee" -caused deaths? Who tracks that kind of information?


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## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

> ..."bee" -caused deaths? 
> Who tracks that kind of information?

I don't think anyone tracks it as well as we'd
like it to be, but perhaps the best dataset is
the data reported to the World Health Organization,
which can be accessed here:
http://www.nationmaster.com/cat/Mortality

In this dataset, we are forced to pretend that
all "insect stings" are bee stings, but even
then, we have a comical comparison.

Here's the data I compiled below. I bothered
to dig all this out because I was thinking of
doing an article about this subject back a
while ago when there was an attempt to have
beekeeping "banned" in a town in Colorado.

If you open this in a new tab (or window, if
you are still using creaky old Internet Exploiter
rather than the Firefox browser), you can play
along with the home version of the game.
http://bee-quick.com/StingDeath.html

The lesson here is to not worry about bees, but
instead, look BOTH ways before crossing the street.
If you are allergic, and refuse to get treatment,
consider moving to Canada, where the odds are
lower, and where you will be far enough away that
I won't have to listen to you whine.


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## dcross (Jan 20, 2003)

<<our incidence of poisonous snake bite was maybe one in a 5-year span.>>

The fact that stuck in my mind about snakebites was the location that the vast majority of people are bitten.

It's the hand. And about the only way to get a snakebite on the hand...


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## Dick Allen (Sep 4, 2004)

In the chapter on venomous insects in THATHB is a listing of the number of deaths per year from many causes including insect bites and stings. Bee stings are listed at the bottom of the list. There are more deaths listed from radon gas poisoning, freazing, horseback riding.... With all the hype about bee sting deaths nowadays, I point out those statistics when the conversation comes up.


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## tarheit (Mar 26, 2003)

Add to the statistics that the risk to many of the people who died to stings was probably known, but they failed to do anything about it. A study in Australia showed in half the stinging deaths the subject knew they would have a serious reaction but failed to carry an api-pen.


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## mark williams (Jan 19, 2003)

Well Jim guess I'm one of the impossibilty HEHE,cause I stepped on a rattle snake once while cutting down a tree.He got me on the back of my leg.
Got bite on the arm once by a copperhead,Man that thing liked to have killed me.But I was trying to catch it.Lesson learned, want do that again.


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## Hillbillynursery (Nov 13, 2003)

I also stepped on the head of a large timber rattler several years ago. Since its head was under my foot I took my pocket knife and cut its head off. Years earlier before the ban on viper hides I went copperhead hunting every fall. We went to a gulley with alot of large rocks and flipped them to find the copperheads. We got lucky and found a rattler once. We had a forked branch we used to pen down the snake and cut off its head as the hide people wanted the heads and shooting them messes up to much of the hide. I can honestly say I have found more poisonous snakes than wild bee hives. 

I know 4 people that have to go to the ER if stung. None of them carry an epi pen.


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## Terri (Apr 14, 2003)

Now, I have seen a LOT! of rattlers.

I was never bitten, though. I saw what they were and left them alone: they saw that I was a giant and left ME alone!

They are kind of hard to see when they are on a broken, rocky area. I can see where people might just not see them and get bitten. 

And, I have seen just a couple of rattlers that were under small logs during hot, dry weather. When I was a kid I was taught to step ON the logs instead of over them, so that your natural stride would make for more room between your foot and the snake. Besides, if you step ON the log, the snake leaves, you see it go, and avoid it. I know this from personal experience.

I never regarded a rattler as being more dangerous than an unlit street. Rattlers really don't want to bite: they want to hide or to leave.


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## Hillbillynursery (Nov 13, 2003)

So true but copper heads strike first then run. I have never had a problem with a rattler that was seen to come toward me. They either stay curled or back away. Copper heads think they need this saftey zone around them. If you get into what space they think they need to get away it will come at you then run. I have been struck at several times but been lucky not to get a bite with the stupid stuff we were doing. The closest call gave me a scratch where the snake bit through my jeans and missed the flesh.


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## mark williams (Jan 19, 2003)

Now we done got on the subject of snake's.Think there may be a need to remind everyone to be careful,around (under) your hives.
Last week I was in Ms,swamp area,moving hives.I went in the day & straped them down while I could see,right at dark I returned to load them up,It wasn't dark enough that I had to have a light,But was hard to see the ground.When I picked up a hive & seen a big snake coiled under it.To dark to tell what kind,But I knew it was big.Got the hive on the trailer & got my light.Turn out to be a black snake.
It had to go under there after I'd straped the hive's earlier that day.
So as I said need to watch,Don't want anyone of you bite.>>>>Mark


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## naturebee (Dec 25, 2004)

---Does anybody know what the fatal dose from Apis mellifera is? I would guess it is in proportion to the person's weight. 

Mark, 
Except for cases of allergic reaction and sensitivity, the LD50 on adult humans is about 1,000 to 1,100 stings. But the general rule I tell people is that it takes about ten stings per pound of body weight to administer a lethal dose. A 150 pound individual need to receive around 1500 stings, and a 50 pound child around 500 stings to be fatal. There are reports of as little as 100 stings being fatal, so there are varying exceptions to the rule. 

This is how I answer the how many people die each year from bee stings question:

A lady once asked me how to get rid of the dangerous honeybees on the lawn around her pool. She was afraid of a child getting stung and dying. I informed her that in the United States, about 50 people die each year from bee stings, and about 350 children under age 5 drown in swimming pools each year. I recommended that she drain her swimming pool.


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## east_stingray (Feb 8, 2005)

I'd leave the snakes under the hives, ESPECIALLY if they're black snakes or bull snakes. No more mice problems, and the snakes aren't aggressive.


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## kamerrill (Sep 17, 2003)

I have a bunch of sources of information in my office but all of my books are in boxes for another week or so awaiting an office move. The folks that specialize in wilderness medicine have collected stats on "outdoor" related fatalities for years including Hymenopteran stings.

The one resource book that I do have handy states that an estimated 50 - 100 people die in the US each year from Hymenopteran stings usually in less than 1 hour and almost always the result of anaphylaxis. This is pretty consistent with all of the sources. There is no source that I have been able to locate (and I have looked for over a year) that breaks it down further comparing say wasp vs. honeybee deaths. I was thinking about asking someone in the Wilderness Medical Society to have a grad. student try and track it down but I doubt that death/hospital records would have recorded the detail accurately - - they probably assume that a "bee" is a "bee" - - the treatment for anaphylaxis is the same regardless of the type of Hymenopteran sting.

In terms of death by toxicity, sources state that it takes between 500 and 1,400 simultaneous stings.

The national safety council has some interesting charts on death statistics (likely hood of an individual dying in a given year from different causes). 

On another note, do folks know how many dishwasher deaths are recorded each year (non-electrical) and why? Every year 3-4 people die because they slip and fall onto the dishwasher impaling themselves on knives that are pointing upward - no kidding! That one was (cited) in the NY times a few months back.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

They should outlaw those things! People are dying! They serve no purpose other than to wash dishes you could have just as easily washed in the sink.


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## Dick Allen (Sep 4, 2004)

I have one. And now I'm terrified to walk into my kitchen. Thanks for spreading around the terror, guys!


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## naturebee (Dec 25, 2004)

Stingray, The good thing about having black snakes under the hive is that they keep the much more dangerous cottontail rabbit out from under the hive. If you ever had the little critter bolt out from under a hive inbetween you feet while working the bees, you know exactly what I mean. The surprise shock can shave 10 years off you life.







Them bunnies are dangerous, the most feared creature to a beekeeper.!!!


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## Mark Johnson (Apr 8, 2004)

Since we are citing statistics, this short item that a friend just sent me seemed apropos.

Subject: STATISTICALLY SPEAKING

Doctors:
A) The number of physicians in the U.S. is 700,000.
B) Accidental deaths caused by Physicians per year are 120,000.
C) Accidental deaths per physician is 17.14%.

Statistics courtesy of U.S. Dept of Health Human Services.

Guns:
(A) The number of gun owners in the U.S. is 80,000,000. (Yes, that's 80 million.)
(B) The number of accidental gun deaths per year, all age groups, is 1,500.
(C) The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is 0.001875%.

Statistics courtesy of FBI.

So, statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners.

Remember, "Guns don't kill people, doctors do."

FACT: NOT EVERYONE HAS A GUN, BUT ALMOST EVERYONE HAS AT LEAST ONE DOCTOR.

Please alert your friends to this alarming threat. We must ban doctors before this gets completely out of hand !!!!

Out of concern for the public at large, I have withheld the statistics on lawyers for fear the shock would cause people to panic and seek
medical attention.
=======================
With these kind of numbers, bee sting deaths per year don't even make it as a blip on the radar screen.


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## east_stingray (Feb 8, 2005)

Medical attention! We can't have that! I think the doctors are so dangerous because they're pissed about the stupid *bleeping* liability cases. I'm going to med school, and the first thing I do after I graduate is move out of IL. This is the worst state in the country for that crap right now... maybe Bush (not Michael) will get a handle on that and I'll be able to stay here, but I'm not holding my breath. That being said, I'm a gun owner now... in college to learn how to be more dangerous!


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## dcross (Jan 20, 2003)

<<Since we are citing statistics,>>

Ever hear about the three statisticians that went deer hunting?

They're in the woods, and see a deer. First one shoots, misses three feet to the left.

Second one shoots, misses three feet to the right.(I don't know where they found a deer that stood still...)

The third one doesn't bother shooting, because, statistically speaking, the deer is dead.

<<Out of concern for the public at large, I have withheld the statistics on lawyers for fear the shock would cause people to panic and seek
medical attention.>>

I like that one!


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## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

Another statistician joke.

Years ago, I was at a conference where short
presentations on new work in physics were 
being given.

A good friend of mine got up to give his
talk, and started out with "Did you hear the
one about the statistician?..."

I could not help myself - I called out from
the audience - "Probably!"

It took what seemed like forever for everyone
to stop laughing and quiet down enough for him 
to give his talk, and even then, people were 
snickering all through his very serious 
presentation.

He forgave me, much later.


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## Dick Allen (Sep 4, 2004)

As Mark Twain once observed: There are lies, there are ****ed lies, then there are statistics.


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## hobbyfarm (Feb 18, 2005)

Re: epi-pens

My wife, the ER RN, wants me to let everyone know about epi-pens. They are NOT a treatment in and of themselves. Their SOLE PURPOSE is to keep you alive long enough to reach the emergency room. She has had patients that have had to have an additional 3 to 4 doses of epinephrine to stop a reaction. She says you might get away with it once or twice, but is it worth the risk? Discuss the problem with your doctor and by all means, if you can afford it, or your insurance covers it, get desensitized.

How many bees does it take to kill? Only one. The worst reactions she has seen are with those who had an epi-pen and it expired and they never bothered to replace it.

We checked her references and then too, all indicate that death was a result of anaphylaxis caused by 1 or 2 stings.

Kevin


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## hobbyfarm (Feb 18, 2005)

On a lighter note, here are two Nursing Calls she received in the ER:

1) How long do I have to cook the turkey so I won't get sick when we eat it?

2) I fell on the ice and hurt my back. Who can I sue?

Yup, those are actual calls. She has hundreds, so don't get her started.

Kevin


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## kamerrill (Sep 17, 2003)

Hobby

Youre dead-on. Epi treats a symptom (its a essentially synthetic adrenaline - a vasoconstrictor) and reduces the profusion to your tissues thus reduces swelling and allows your airway to re-open. It does nothing to stop the underlying problem - - the massive release of histamines which, among other things, causes swelling. 

There are plenty of threads that discuss anaphylaxis for folks that want to do a quick search.


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## naturebee (Dec 25, 2004)

--I fell on the ice and hurt my back. Who can I sue?

The case of Wilhelm v. Flores is interesting. An article in Bee Culture described symptoms of anaphylactic shock Flores was exhibiting, apparently miss diagnosed by the beekeeper in charge. Does anyone know the title of, or link to the article in Bee Culture I am referring too? 

Heres a brief overview of the case toward the bottom of the page on this link: 

http://www.burger.com/beelaw.htm


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