# Beekeeper Certification Hillsborough County FL



## Monkadelic (Feb 5, 2010)

I think it's great that Hillsborough is doing that! :applause:

How about an essay question, how to define a swarm to someone who is unfamiliar with bees? I tend to find myself explaining that one a lot. Most people don't know what a swarm truly is.

I would really love to see the exam when you get it finalized.


----------



## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

Wow very progressive. Good ideas for home owners will help down the road. Not so much with the beekeeper but, with the non bee keepers who in a city don't understand farm life. For the person that thinks that milk comes from a carton or honey comes from a bear or Maple Syrup comes from a jug. There is a lot of ignorance out there and sounds like this exam will help teach the bee keeper what to say and what the rules are so he is always in the right with Joe Law. The shades of grey is where the trouble is. :applause:


----------



## RogerCrum (Jun 19, 2011)

This is not good for individuals. Just one more brick in the wall. Every day we are watching another freedom removed and replaced with control by government.

"Let me see your papers!"


----------



## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

I disagree. Government's job is to control. So do away with the government is the best thing. I think government is bad. (this is a discussion that gets posts deleted). So to stay on topic. If you cant beat them, you can't. Lets educate them. I think that the only weapon we have against ignorance and government and that runs hand in hand is education so you can show them that they need to leave you alone.

The problem is the guy in the 1/4 acre neighborhood who thinks he can have 50 hives and has a neighbor or two that don't like it. I have a 100 and I live in the country outside of the city and I only keep 50 here so they don't take over the neighbors fountain to much. When his daughter got married I took them away for the day so they would not enhance his family video's. It is all about being a good neighbor.


----------



## RogerCrum (Jun 19, 2011)

Moderator,
Please remove my prior post as "off topic"


----------



## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

It is not off topic. It is right on. We cant beat big government. It is in their charter to take our liberties away and take our money to waste on things that justify taking our money away. Like camera on every street corner. I did not give that extra tax dollars so they can have a fancy camera system to catch more people breaking the law to make more money. But, they did it anyway. It is a self consuming machine. The mayor builds a bigger city staff so he is a bigger cheese at the mayors convention. (you touched a nerve, No worries though)

So education and sympathy is our best weapon against it. Teach them that bee's are good and they will starve if they die off. Things wont get pollinated and you will die!!!! If we educate the city dwellers that us county dwellers is what allows them to have the filter for their polluted air and our bee's pollinate the crops they need to eat since the apartment dwellers have no land to grow anything on. Open a booth up at the farmers market and bring an observation hive with you and you will have a magnet. It will be the busiest booth at the market. Educate Educate Educate will help.


----------



## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

Questions I can think of off the top of my head are:

1. What are the colony symptoms normally associated with Varroa mite infestation?
2. What are the colony symptoms normally associated with Nosema?
3. What are the colony symptoms normally associated with Small Hive Beetle infestation.

Of course you would ask in earlier questions what the definition of each of the above is. And then subsequent questions on how to treat each of these problems, etc. 

Having said that, I have to add my two cents in and agree with Roger. I live in one of the most regulated cities in the world. Sometimes you feel you can't even breath. Beekeeping here in legal and unregulated. There are roof top hives on some of the most prestigious restaurants in the city as well as community apiaries without one single regulation. The police call our bee club to rescue swarms and they love us. It's been like that for years without one single incident due to an irresponsible beekeeper. Why do you need to regulate it?


----------



## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

Charlie B;708312} Why do you need to regulate it?[/QUOTE said:


> Not sure if my message was clear. I do not want regulation at all for anything. But, Government means more rules and with a cert program you might get more leeway in the long run then without when they go off half cropped (could not use the word I wanted but this one seems to work). I wish we could license parents, since we seemed to have taken out the survival of the fittest out of the equation. Stupid people used to starve and that gene was low. Nowadays it seems to have reared its ugly little head. You cant fix stupid.


----------



## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

Questions based on behavior and flight path.
How to set hives so that their flight path keeps them out of trouble.

Sorry I have to say it:
More mindless regulation Hillsbough county had a regulation banning beekeeping and now they have set more regulations allowing beekeeping. Will they need a tax to pay for this program?
How about 3% of all honey sold in the county that might cover it. They will then need to hire people to ensure tax is being paid. Raise the tax a little! How many "outlaw" beekeepers do you have? How many problems? Down the road maybe they can fine beekeepers that can't prove they didn't re queen every year or treat for mites or gave uninspected honey away or ???

The test should at the most test your knowledge with being a good neighbor!


----------



## Pilgarlic56 (Aug 6, 2010)

I would hope that anyone communicating with the commissioners or staff would ask what public interest this requirement is protecting or serving. My suspicion is that the education/certification requirement is a bone tossed to those who objected to the relaxation of the land development code allowing beekeeping in urban areas. I am a liberal, progressive and not normally opposed to government regulation at all, but I'm hard-pressed to find any real justification for this certification requirement. It should be opposed if those proposing it can't articulate a clear public benefit.


----------



## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

Maybe questions on apiary placement. That might promote responsible placement that is in everyone's interest. They could use this link with every registered beekeepers name and home adress. http://www.freshfromflorida.com/pi/plantinsp/apiary/florida-certified-apiaries.pdf 
Their phone # is listed as well.

A liberal that identifies himself as progressive finds the law suspicious?? Nothing personal Pilgarlic I'm just saying!!

Am beek please don't take everyone's criticism personal . We have given you some ideas for your program. I'm thinking your a good guy and a valuable resource here.


----------



## Pilgarlic56 (Aug 6, 2010)

Not criticizing AmericasBeekeeper. I've attended his seminars at USF and have the highest regard for him.

I would like for someone to make a good, clear argument that this county certification program would meet any reasonable cost/benefit threshold. We have an annual Dept of Ag inspection. Box quantity/placement/screening requirements will be in the proposed regulation. Given the negligible, if any, negative impact that our bees have on our suburban neighbors, what benefit is this certification program expected to deliver? This is not a rhetorical question. I'd sincerely like to know. If it's being proposed just so that the commissioners can appease objectors, it's too high a price.


----------



## winevines (Apr 7, 2007)

AmericasBeekeeper said:


> I h
> I am looking for the 50 most important questions for the written exam. .


Virginia has started this program. The links below can lead you to the program overview and the question guides for 2 levels- qualified and certified. 
The problem, which I think other States have had as well, is who administers and keeps this going? 


http://www.virginiabeekeepers.org/sites/default/files/Virginia Master Beekeeping Program.pdf

http://www.virginiabeekeepers.org/node/135

http://www.virginiabeekeepers.org/sites/default/files/MBStudyGuide_Certified.pdf


----------



## Monkadelic (Feb 5, 2010)

AmericasBeekeeper said:


> If the ordinance is implemented it will protect beekeepers and allow beekeeping in the city similar to the state initiative.


Quoted because it seems that a lot of you missed this particular line. We have a lot of issues here in Florida and although the State is trying to change things for the good, we need all the help we can get, especially urban beeks.

Down here in Southwest Florida, we have Africanized colonies. This breeds fear in those that are not knowledgable about bees. It is a cross we all have to bear, and I feel that AmBee's program is going to make a difference. I have seen people here get into beekeeping because it seems cool, and they see honey dollar signs and really have no idea what they are doing. I have to have my dogs licensed, I have no issue whatsoever being a registered or, possibly in the future, licensed beekeeper.

Just last month a representative for Lee County made a blanket statement that beekeeping is illegal in residential areas in Lee County. There is nothing in the municipal codes against beekeeping. This statement was made, however, in reference to 80 hives behind a vacant house on less than 2 acres in a residential area, which I feel is irresponsible urban beekeeping. It made the news and caused an uproar in our local association. Programs such as the one that AmBee is spearheading may very well benefit us in ways that we don't yet see.


----------



## pascopol (Apr 23, 2009)

Another Big Brother program to control and obstruct peoples lives and freedoms.

What next, poultry keeper certification program? canary keeper certification? dog keeper certification, the list goes on and on.

Isn't it enough that state requires yearly inspection, fees etc, to keep bees?

They never have enough!

Lets join the tea party, fight and get excess cancerous, oppressive and intrusive government out of our backs and lives.


----------



## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

Have there been serious problems already as a result of "Unlicensed Beekeepers"?

Several towns in the center of this state changed ordinances to allow beekeeping, last year. They all seem to "Offer" some kind of beekeeping course. I know this because we had a bumper crop of nuc purchasers last year and they were all bubbling about what they had learned. Seems like all these new beekeepers took some kind of course.

I suspect if the training is voluntary it will be more effective.


----------



## Pilgarlic56 (Aug 6, 2010)

AmericasBeekeeper isn't proposing this. The County is relaxing the Land Development Code to allow urban beekeeping. As a bone to objectors, the Commission is PROPOSING to test and certify urban beekeepers. AmericasBeekeeper is the expert the county has turned to, presumably as a contractor, to design and, probably, to implement the program.

I simply want the County to carefully evaluate WHY they are proposing certification. As we all know, it's very, very easy for elected officials and government staffers to adopt a program and, once it's adopted it is unlikely to be questioned. I want it questioned BEFORE implementation. I want to know what the program is intended to accomplish before the burden is undertaken. I won't deny that I'm predisposed to believe that it's not warranted, but isn't that the skepticism with which we should approach ANY new program today?


----------



## Gord (Feb 8, 2011)

I guess the question (for me) would be: If I get certified and my neighbour complains, would I be protected by my certification, or could the city tell me to get rid of my bees based solely on complaints?
I'm sure they'd retain that right.
Sounds like another cash grab.

If they started this here, I'd go underground.


----------



## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

Thank you and Florida also has a Master Beekeeper program - http://entnemdept.ufl.edu/honeybee/extension/master_beekeeper.shtml
All the political rants, anti-government rhetoric, and disdain for rules (usually caused by people without common sense or good judgement) are misplaced. The change is to allow beekeeping that is currently illegal. The Florida Department of Agriculture and I, hope this spreads to other municipalities where beekeeping is currently illegal or severly restricted. This will never effect commercial beeks or agricultural enterprises. The current drive is to support the hundreds of beekeepers in urban neighborhoods.
The question remains what are the top 50 questions? There are hundreds of valid questions from the various Master Beekeeper Programs and on-line training, but what does a novice need to know to keep from making the (bad) news?
hive placement is good
barriers to make the bees fly over neighbors heads is good
providing water so they stay out of the neighbor's is good (rarely works when pools are involved but we tried)
genetic differences and temperment are good
best management practices to control AHB is excellent
knowing behaviors that excite or cause the bees to get defensive is good
knowledge of diseases, pests and parasites is fine but the County does not care


----------



## RogerCrum (Jun 19, 2011)

What are the symptoms of anaphalactic shock, appropriate first aid measures and need for followup with emergency medical treatment.


----------



## Fl_Beak (May 9, 2010)

I think a lot of local beeks would share Gord's concerns and opinions- But most of us had to take a test/drive a car to get a license. If you want to keep venomous snakes, you need a license, and they aren't travelling a mile or more from your home- hopefully.

A good assesment shouldn't just test what someone knows, but you should walk away smarter after taking the test. Just my ten years in the field of public EDU. Maybe some of the top 50 Q's should steer toward the dangers of HFCS, heavy metals, and antibiotics in a daily diet. That was big push for us into keeping bees. We wanna know where our honey is from and what is in it.

or 

*all of the following are benefits of keeping bees except:*

providing local pollinators

sharing the hobby with friends

allergy relief

buying honey from China (I went there)


----------



## Pilgarlic56 (Aug 6, 2010)

Sorry, there's just not enough there to warrant a 50 question test and a one-on-one practicum with every Hillsborough County urban beekeeper. Good luck, but the program is misplaced. It's a bone tossed to the opposition in the guise of protection of the public. I don't object to that part of the change that allows urban beekeeping, at all. But this part of the change is one we can do without. It's a boondoggle.


----------



## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

I was not involved in the discussions, but a one day "certification" beats a week, a month or a year of classes. There is no tax, fee, or cost proposed for allowing bees or certification. I was selected to spearhead this because I am the Master Beekeeper in the County and I am the only one of Tampa Bay Beekeepers that already offers regular monthly bee workshops every third Saturday at USF.
first aid and shock are probably the best suggestion so far! Thank you


----------



## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

Calling people that question local governments efficiency "without common sense or good judgement" is a bit harsh and a personal attack. I was careful to suggest what I thought were good ideas while giving input that I hoped would shape people's percepective.

Defending more regulation that to many people's mind is unneeded and wasteful with an attitude that this is important concession just doesn't fly. I can understand your excitement in being able to develop and standardize a course and method of testing for so many new beekeepers.


----------



## cbcon2 (Aug 7, 2011)

Seems to me that the only interest government should have in this is to protect others in the community and their property, not to make beginning beekeepers into masters. If a new beekeeper wants to screw up totally, then that's his or her right, so long as the rights of others aren't infringed upon. A knowledge of disease control and of the safety of others comes to mind as important. Unfortunately, these things tend to get out of hand when the legitimate limits of governmental interest are ignored. Good Luck!


----------



## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

You misunderstand "rules (usually caused by people without common sense or good judgement)" Almost every rule, law, ordinance, prohibition was created by someones irresponsible action. Rules are made to protect us from idiots and selfish people. 
It only reinforces the latest posts. If we can keep idiots and people that do not care if bees are taken from good beekeepers it is worth it.
This is not intended to make "Master Beekeepers" though many have suggested modeling it after Master Beekeeper programs.


----------



## tedw200 (Mar 4, 2009)

It's the public that should be educated on benefits of having bees in the area.
#1 The benefits of pollination by the honey bee.


----------



## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

Incidentally, I am not excited about doing this. I have a full time job, a full time bee training program, and a two year project to bring beekeeping training to the 33 Florida Counties that have less than 20 beekeepers. 
I was volunteered by TBBA! 
I just want to do it right. We have media looking for a disaster, interest groups that do not like any government at all, groups that do not like change like allowing beekeeping presently prohibited, and the majority that hate insects, especially stinging insects.


----------



## Pilgarlic56 (Aug 6, 2010)

By supporting their proposal to certify we're reinforcing the misperception that honeybees pose a menace to neighbors. If we don't stand against that misperception, who will?


----------



## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

I have nothing to do with the proposal or the negotiations so you are off topic in challenging the ordinance to allow beekeeping.
We do not want to make "Master Beekeepers" just to start beekeeping. What are the 50 most important questions to ask. a new beekeeper.


----------



## Monkadelic (Feb 5, 2010)

Wow, this got really political. 

AmBee, I was thinking mostly about best neighbor practices last night, and came up with these. Worded as solutions, I don't have enough coffee in me yet to phrase as questions!

Some of these might have been suggested but I don't care to participate any further in a political rant. When it comes down to brass tacks, you are making sure that new beekeepers are educated, and I appreciate that. Besides, you asked us to help you do this right, not give you a lecture on big government.

-Ensure that flightpath is restricted by fence or other structure to force bees to fly high.
-Hives should be shielded from street view.
-Perhaps requeen at the first evidence of supercedure (not sure how to phrase that but I am thinking of ensuring non-Africanized genes)
-Swarm control, as that scares the daylights out of people!
-Provide a convenient water source for bees near their hive(s)
-The difference between a "hot" hive and one that has an attitude due to dearth, etc.

I think that you said somewhere that the county didn't care about pest management, but if you put it to them regarding the importance of managed colonies keeping the incidence of AFB down, they might reconsider.


----------



## cbcon2 (Aug 7, 2011)

AmericasBeekeeper said:


> ... What are the 50 most important questions to ask. a new beekeeper.



In order to accomplish _what_? What is the purpose of the testing?

Then, is that a legitimate function of government?

Or are we letting our personal wishes creep in about what kind of beekeepers we'd like like to see? I'm not accusing anyone, I just see this as a danger -- however well-intentioned. These are the questions I would ask myself, were I in your shoes. (Actually, I don't envy you.)


----------



## Pilgarlic56 (Aug 6, 2010)

If the County has identified a clear objective and public interest to be served by the certification, that should be used to select the questions. Have they done so and communicated it to you? If not, you should ask them to clearly identify the objective of the certification so that you can tailor your design of the test accordingly.


----------



## fish_stix (May 17, 2009)

More government involved in our lives and pursuits sucks! Bees are out there regardless of whether a beekeeper keeps them in a box or not. Next thing you know the commissioners will be asking for a fee to pay administrative costs for some deadbeat city employee who sits around doing her nails all day and taking a month to type up the paperwork for each certified beek. Most cities in FL don't regulate beekeeping and have no problem with beehives in the backyard. Tampa Bay area should adhere to the same policy of independence and non-interference! As a beek YOU should be promoting beekeeper rights, not regulation.


----------



## pascopol (Apr 23, 2009)

Point well taken, I'd say the only individuals supporting the new regulations are the ones who are going to financially benefit from it. As always follow the money trail.

Get all king of governments out of our lives.

They are responsible for current recession and suffering of millions of hard working and law obeying American citizens.

I hope they stay away from my county (Pasco) with this new "regulation".

Besides a few hives I have a dog, cat, parrots, chickens, ducks, turkeys, guinea hens, quail and hundreds of plants.

Myself and thousands of other Floridians keeping livestock for business or pleasure are surely not looking to be "certified" in any of areas of their activities.

They'll start with bees "certification" then legislation will creep in to other fields including African Violets kept on window stills. 

We already have bee inspection and hive registration, isn't it enough ?!


----------



## Live Oak (Oct 11, 2008)

RogerCrum said:


> This is not good for individuals. Just one more brick in the wall. Every day we are watching another freedom removed and replaced with control by government.
> 
> "Let me see your papers!"


Roger,

Your reply is bullseye on target, on topic, relevant, and make a very salient point. 

In my opinion, "Bee Keeper Certification" is a REALLY bad idea. Government regulation and control RARELY if ever results in a positive outcome and nearly always results in radically increased costs & complication which serve to drive away or out of the practice of beekeeping that we supposeda ALL are trying to do our best to put forward and welcome as many as possible into the craft.


----------



## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

Thanks Monkadelic, Charlie B, Mbeck, RogerCrum, and FL Beak. I wish more beekeepers had something positive to contribute. You do not have to know anything about bees to post on the website though.


----------



## Pilgarlic56 (Aug 6, 2010)

Americasbeekeeper, I'm not sure why you've avoided the questions about the objectives of the program. Don't you think it's important, as you're designing the cert/test, to know exactly what it's supposed to accomplish? And if your "client" (the County) hasn't thought that through, shouldn't you help them to do so so that you can provide to them a good work product? Without knowing their clear objectives, you're shooting in the dark. If they DO have clear objectives, would you share them? 

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Bantem (Aug 13, 2010)

they are talking about a 200.00 dollor fee for permit to keep bees also


----------



## B Reeves (Oct 2, 2009)

AmericasBeekeeper said:


> Thanks Monkadelic, Charlie B, Mbeck, RogerCrum, and FL Beak. I wish more beekeepers had something positive to contribute. You do not have to know anything about bees to post on the website though.


AB so you are the authority on "knowing anything about bees" I dont think you meant to say that
anytime you open the door and let government in you cannot be sure of the outcome, politics can change things in the blink of an eye, the thought of government control in my county sends chills down my spine, Isnt the state working a law covering this to overide all the county ordinances


----------



## Pilgarlic56 (Aug 6, 2010)

This is the email that I sent to Tom Hiznay of the Hillsborough County Planning and Growth Management Department:

Tom:

Thank you so much for sending the proposed ordinance.

Over a year ago my son returned from his work day as an intern with a Plant City beekeeper with the woodware for a beehive. He wanted to keep bees in the backyard. I thought it was a great idea.

I read everything I could get my hands on and subscribed to the forums on beesource.com. My son, of course, because he had interned for most of the summer with a beekeeper, thought he knew it all. He didn't (nor do I).

Having educated ourselves to the best of our ability, We installed a package of bees. Last Autumn our family, friends and neighbors were treated to gift bottles of urban backyard Hillsborough County honey, and it was delicious. I even had enough left over to brew a batch of mead. We were and are proud of what we helped the honeybees to produce. One of my neighbors put up a small sign in his setcresia welcoming "Bob's Bees".

We live on a 1/3 acre lot and we carefully plan and plant our Florida friendly yard, mostly with natives. The bee box is carefully situated for the bees' maximum benefit, considering sunshine and wind protection. Its location is not compliant with the 25' setback. If we WERE to meet the setback requirement, the siting would be much less optimal for the bees, as it would be mostly shaded.

Our experience with bees has been nothing but positive, even joyful. Our Simpson's Stopper bore fruit this year in an abundance not previously seen due to the bees' pollenation. Our East Palatka Hollies, Florida Privets, porterweed and many others have offered their nectar and pollen to our bees. I'm sure our bees boosted the harvests of many neighboring urban gardeners.

Not long ago it came to my attention that my box might be illegal. Given what I know and what I had learned about honeybees that seemed astonishing to me. I then learned that Hillsborough County was considering changing the land development code to allow urban beekeeping. You can't imagine how relieved and proud I was to hear that Hillsborough was to do what so many enlightened jurisdictions had already done.

Very recently, some of the proposed "conditions" have been revealed to me. The joy is gone, Mr. Hiznay. The pride in Hillsborough's enlightenment is, too.

Urban beekeepers are not introducing an exotic menace to the urban environment. Urban beekeepers are helping a magical, unaggressive and beleaguered insect to return to areas where they had been all but eliminated. Honeybees are not a menace. Everything about the ordinance sends a message to my neighbors that they are, and that they need protection from them. Personally I would prefer that Hillsborough County not adopt an ordinance allowing urban beekeeping at all then that you adopt an ordinance that institutionalizes the myth that honeybees are a menace.

My bee box and my bees will be leaving my neighborhood. I have been discouraged from this wonderful hobby that has brought pleasure to so many of my family, friends and neighbors by this prospect of mandated licensing and education, mandated, onerous, silly and superfluous siting requirements and the apparent prevalence of misinformation about this wonderful, benign creature.

I'm not a person who normally opposes regulation. I have to say, though, that it is my firm conviction that this ordinance as proposed is a massive overreach, unwarranted in any way by any real threat posed by honeybees. The County also should not be in the business of propagating the myth that honeybees are a menace, as this proposed legislation would do.

If it's not too late, I hope that you, County staff, will carefully weigh the real need for these intrusive, burdensome and unnecessary regulatory measures. I will repeat, I am not anti-goverment in general at all. But these proposed restrictions and mandates on urban beekeepers seem to me to be SO over the top... I'm truly disheartened.


----------



## fish_stix (May 17, 2009)

Good post and awesome letter!


----------



## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

fish_stix said:


> Good post and awesome letter!


Agreed!


----------



## mac (May 1, 2005)

It would be best for everyone to just repeal the existing regulation making it illegal to keep bees.


----------

