# Feed a new hive?



## Norcalkyle (Apr 23, 2015)

If it's a package feed 1:1 as much as they will take until you get 2 deeps or 3 mediums drawn out... or more if you want or need for winter. Keep the entrance tight for at least a few weeks if not more . Don't use a feeder that is out in the open.

Feed a nuc for at least a few weeks to get them jump started. Reducers are not as necessary as long as you are using an internal feeder.

Depending on your overwinter needs you may need to feed 2:1 in the fall or late summer


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

MonkeyMcBean said:


> what do you folks think/do/recommend?


I don't feed syrup. I will give a colony one or more frames of capped honey if needed in an emergency, such as a cutout or a dry swarm that has no food. I don't do packages so I can offer no recommendation there.


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## NorthMaine (Oct 27, 2016)

You will get conflicting information on this as everyone has their own preference. But if you are starting a hive from a package they are under extreme stress and you are in the north where the season is short which doesn't give them much time to get going. 

I would follow Norcalkyle's advice. I wouldn't use an entrance feeder personally. If you have lots of other hives and have the resources, then Riverderwent's advice of giving them a honey frame from a HEALTHY hive would be good as they can clear the honey and have instant wax, but realize he is from deep south and his colonies have a much longer season to get ready for a very different winter than ours. You need them to build up fast and try to get out there and get some real honey going for winter, so feeding until they build enough wax to store it in is essential.

That's my opinion, someone else will give you the opposite advice. I would rather feed too much in the spring than to get to the fall right before winter and have them not be strong enough to survive our long winters.


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## pjigar (Sep 13, 2016)

I always feed when new hive is starting up. I use top jar feeder hidden by an extra box. If you are concerned about robbing then use robber screen. Feeding really does stimulates them more to draw out combs.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

1. it depends. if a new package is on new equipment (no drawn comb) and there's not much nectar flow and/or the weather is crummy for flying, then yes that colony is in an unnatural situation and requires intervention (feeding).

2. no guarantees. robbing is the primary concern until the colony gets established and has brood to protect. robbing can be minimized or prevented by not using anything scented in your syrup, using a reduced entrance and/or a robbing screen, and housing the feeder within the hive as suggested above.

in the south a package or a swarm in new equipment and started early enough has time to get the hive established to overwintering size with very little or no feeding. in the far north, and i would check around with your locals to see how they overwinter, it may be necessary to feed more so that they can get enough comb drawn to overwintering size.


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## Eikel (Mar 12, 2014)

If you do feed, recommend not adding any of the smelly stuff (vinegar, HBH etc) particularly without a flow.


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## ToeOfDog (Sep 25, 2013)

You might want to research the negative effects of sugar syrup on the microflora in a bee's gut.


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## AR Beekeeper (Sep 25, 2008)

If you find any studies that show negative effects of just sugar syrup, please post the names of those studies. I have tried to find studies on straight sugar syrup damaging bees guts and have been unable to do so.


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## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

The "meme" sugar syrup is the wrong pH and causes health problems is not supported experimentally. It is based on a "folk" interpretation of studies that report transitory shifts in gut flora. 

Popular beekeeping is filled to the gills with such "folk" interpretations heavily promoted by the various gurus. Remember, this is a human phenomenon -- the gurus are competing for "mindshare"-- and gnostic and arcane practice represents the process of differentation that they use to generate "acolytes" to support their cult.


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## MonkeyMcBean (Mar 1, 2017)

ToeOfDog said:


> You might want to research the negative effects of sugar syrup on the microflora in a bee's gut.


This is maybe my primary concern, but I also want to insure they build quick enough to make it through the impending winter...


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## MonkeyMcBean (Mar 1, 2017)

JWChesnut said:


> The "meme" sugar syrup is the wrong pH and causes health problems is not supported experimentally. It is based on a "folk" interpretation of studies that report transitory shifts in gut flora.
> 
> Popular beekeeping is filled to the gills with such "folk" interpretations heavily promoted by the various gurus. Remember, this is a human phenomenon -- the gurus are competing for "mindshare"-- and gnostic and arcane practice represents the process of differentation that they use to generate "acolytes" to support their cult.


That's a lot of scare quotes. Do you have access to the research you're talking about, that indicates a gut flora shift is transitory?


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## Eikel (Mar 12, 2014)

Well Monkey, here's my $.02 worth. I'm a bit of a beekeeping minimalist; I don't treat, feed, etc unless there is a good reason but then I'll do what it takes. It's all about trade offs and working with the bee's traits and tendencies to accomplish beekeeping goals. Sugar and syrup isn't the same ph as honey, that's a given, and I don't have a clue what it does or doesn't do to their gut, but it obviously has raised a number of bees and kept bunches from starving during winter. So it's not poisoning them and does accomplish at least few beekeeping goals.
Now where does your goals, philosophy and current bee related resources fit into the mix; there are a number or responses that identify various goals for comb, brood, stores under different situations. What tradeoffs, with associated risks and ramifications, are you willing to make in preparing your bees to survive winter. Kinda boils down to a personal choice or necessity.


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## Richard Cryberg (May 24, 2013)

You can never go wrong by feeding either plain sugar in water or HFCS to new hive. This is especially true on foundation. Just feed them adequate quantities. Do not think feeding 3 pounds of sugar is enough for anything. Unless there is a strong flow on think more like 30 pounds if they are on foundation. Or even more. I have never once had a hive suffer from feeding. I have seen lots killed by not feeding. Either sugar or HFCS is either as good, or better, for the bees than honey. I keep one and two frame nucs with feeders on them in the same yard with full sized production hives routinely and have no robbing problems at all. Just keep the entrance small enough that two or three bees can defend it. Do not add any of the various nostrums to your syrup. At best they accomplish nothing other than thinning your wallet and at worst cause problems.


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## MonkeyMcBean (Mar 1, 2017)

Eikel said:


> Well Monkey, here's my $.02 worth. I'm a bit of a beekeeping minimalist; I don't treat, feed, etc unless there is a good reason but then I'll do what it takes. It's all about trade offs and working with the bee's traits and tendencies to accomplish beekeeping goals. Sugar and syrup isn't the same ph as honey, that's a given, and I don't have a clue what it does or doesn't do to their gut, but it obviously has raised a number of bees and kept bunches from starving during winter. So it's not poisoning them and does accomplish at least few beekeeping goals.
> Now where does your goals, philosophy and current bee related resources fit into the mix; there are a number or responses that identify various goals for comb, brood, stores under different situations. What tradeoffs, with associated risks and ramifications, are you willing to make in preparing your bees to survive winter. Kinda boils down to a personal choice or necessity.


Thanks. I guess I'm still trying to figure out where my philosophies fit. You have a very reasonable point.


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## msl (Sep 6, 2016)

It costs 2lb honey out of what would otherwise be turned in to honey stores to draw out a deep comb, so That's 40 pounds of honey (32 pounds of dry sugar) to draw out a 10F double deep of foundation. Thats a lot of work on the bees to gather

Its likely a local thing, it may matter less in North Dakota that had a 74# per hive advrage in 2015 but in Idaho with a 30# advrage its likely a different story 

I usually don't feed swarms or (the few)packages I have had, I do feed July nucs as much as they will take. I am a TB keeper and have no drawn empty comb for them and I am asking them to draw and fill 4-6 combs(over the 2 they start with) in 6-8 weeks.


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## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

Honey is acid in pH because it is 50% fructose, and fructose has loosely bound H ions. Nectar (the stuff that bees collect) has many different compositions, but tends to be 50% sucrose and 25% each fructose and glucose. Some famous nectars (Canola, for one) are 100% sucrose. Bees convert sucrose to the mono-saccharides in their honey crop with the aid of an enzyme (usually termed invertase). They convert Canola nectar and sugar syrup identically. The process of inversion causes the pH of the solution to drop (and self catalyzes the inversion).

Adding an acid to sucrose to "change its pH" is simply an crude way of inverting the syrup. It represents a very real risk of formation of HMF, because dehydration of fructose (removing H ions) generates HMF. 

The theory that you must "acidify" syrup to make it resemble the honey stored in cells is support neither by chemistry or real-world beekeeping experience. It is bunkum promoted to guillible newbees by the so-called gurus.


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## msl (Sep 6, 2016)

JW are there cases when the syrup is consumed directly and not converted ?


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## MonkeyMcBean (Mar 1, 2017)

It can't be converted if there is no comb... but then the bees in a package would already have been eating the sugar syrup they're packed with. A bit more probably isn't a problem.


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## Richard Cryberg (May 24, 2013)

msl said:


> JW are there cases when the syrup is consumed directly and not converted ?


Bee, human, yeast it makes no difference. None can metabolize sucrose directly. All convert the sucrose to fructose and glucose and then metabolize those sugars. The big difference is humans can metabolize and thus tolerate other sugars not infrequently found in fall US honeys that bees can not metabolize. In summer such non digestible sugars cause the bees no problem as they are passed out unchanged in the feces. During winter they accumulate in the gut feeding bacteria until the infection builds to the point the bee dies. The end result is either a weak or dead hive come spring.


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## MonkeyMcBean (Mar 1, 2017)

Richard Cryberg said:


> Bee, human, yeast it makes no difference. None can metabolize sucrose directly. All convert the sucrose to fructose and glucose and then metabolize those sugars. The big difference is humans can metabolize and thus tolerate other sugars not infrequently found in fall US honeys that bees can not metabolize. In summer such non digestible sugars cause the bees no problem as they are passed out unchanged in the feces. During winter they accumulate in the gut feeding bacteria until the infection builds to the point the bee dies. The end result is either a weak or dead hive come spring.


Ok, chestnut. Do you work to invert the sugar before feeding to reduce the sucrose level? I heard adding an acid can help in the inversion process.


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## MonkeyMcBean (Mar 1, 2017)

And what are the other sugars that are indigestible by the bees?


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## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

Sucrose is freely converted by enzymes in bees either on storage or metabolism. The sugars Cryberg refers to are maltose, galactose, perseitol (9-15% as in Avocado nectar). Even ******** Eucalyptus has significant indigestible to bee complex carbohydrates.


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## Peter Montague (Feb 23, 2016)

Richard Cryberg said:


> The end result is either a weak or dead hive come spring.


And that's why if it's a package we requeen as soon as possible with better resilient genetics. I'm in MA and a package left to its own devices especially TF is a roll of the dice as to the shape it will be in come fall. A package has the deck stacked agenst it from day 1, especially up here. My managment plan includes feeding all first and second year colonies in the spring syrup and pollen patties (made from pollen) and bulk feeding in the fall to get them to process and store it if they need it, re-queen packages as soon as possible and rear or bring in some queens in the summer to replace underpreforming queens. I prefer bees that do not need to be fed 

"The theory that you must "acidify" syrup to make it resemble the honey stored in cells is support neither by chemistry or real-world beekeeping experience. It is bunkum promoted to guillible newbees by the so-called gurus."

I agree, also all the "gurus" generally keep bees on much larger scale than almost every new beekeeper will and the methods for managing 100+ are not the same as managing 2 but they never adjust their conversation to fit their audience. It doesnt make the information invalid just all the more dificult for the new beekeeper to get to the most pertinent information to them. Sure you can go TF and foundationless but to do it with 1 first year package is not the same as doing it with 100 established colonies and depending on where you are will be very difficult for anyone let alone a 1st year beek.

"Adding an acid to sucrose to "change its pH" is simply an crude way of inverting the syrup. It represents a very real risk of formation of HMF, because dehydration of fructose (removing H ions) generates HMF"

I would love to see some data on how much HMF is created by adding a splash of vinigar or by heating the syrup allong with how much HMF it takes to negitivly affect bees. I looked at a bunch of chemistry papers but they just explaned how HMF was created by adding heat and or acids but didnt refrence any sort of volume that would be produced as a result. Many people feed bees syrup and I would be shocked that a little vinigar or heat would be a death centance. Not that I think vinigar helps the bees but im equally skeptical that it kills, I am frequently wrong so I dont mind eating my words opcorn:


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## Richard Cryberg (May 24, 2013)

Peter Montague said:


> Many people feed bees syrup and I would be shocked that a little vinigar or heat would be a death centance. Not that I think vinigar helps the bees but im equally skeptical that it kills


The amounts typically suggested are not going to do any harm. The reason is simple. The usual amounts suggested are too small to even deal with the temporary hardness found in nearly all natural water. Such small amounts simply make a little carbonic acid by reaction with the temporary hardness and over the next twelve hours or so that carbonic acid will degas from the solution and the pH will bounce right back to where it was when you pulled it from the tap. So, in truth about all you have done is added a little bit of acetate ions to the sugar solution. Acetate ions are easy to absorb by the intestinal tract and are an absolutely essential part of things like the Krebs cycle that is the energy fire that all organisms live by.

If you like adding vinegar feel free as long as you keep it in small amounts. If you think such additions help the bees you live in a dream world that ignores all science. You do not want to acidify the syrup anyhow. It does not help the bees, but could hurt them if you do not have the lab equipment needed to make measurements and make sure you are staying on the safe side. Nectars in general are not very acidic and that is their natural diet. Some nectars are even alkaline. Nectar from most plants is primarily simply table sugar dissolved in water with small traces of toxins (essential oils) added to inhibit bacteria and fungi growth before the bee gathers it.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

MonkeyMcBean said:


> I get conflicting information on this. Feeding isn't great, sets off robbing, wrong ph, etc. But I also hear that bees that are building comb should be fed. My thought is to feed until a Flow starts, what do you folks think/do/recommend?


 How does this fit with a TF rationale? Why wouldn't you just treat this the way you treat treating and let the bees find what they need to survive through their own genetics and in Nature?


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## MonkeyMcBean (Mar 1, 2017)

sqkcrk said:


> How does this fit with a TF rationale? Why wouldn't you just treat this the way you treat treating and let the bees find what they need to survive through their own genetics and in Nature?


That's why I posted here in the TF forum. To gain an understanding of how others who are TF approach this issue. Are there non-TF folks posing here?


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## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

MonkeyMcBean said:


> That's why I posted here in the TF forum. To gain an understanding of how others who are TF approach this issue. Are there non-TF folks posing here?


You act like TF is a binary option. It is not a religion, despite the efforts of its proponents. TF can be tested by scientific methods, but in my side-by-side trials, it does not produce good results.


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## MonkeyMcBean (Mar 1, 2017)

JWChesnut said:


> You act like TF is a binary option. It is not a religion, despite the efforts of its proponents. TF can be tested by scientific methods, but in my side-by-side trials, it does not produce good results.


What's your n? Have you bred for varroa resistance or did you use the genetics from your treated stock in your trial?


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## msl (Sep 6, 2016)

He has a whole thread on the different stocks he is trialing and the results 
http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...osts-of-Treatment-Free-(dozens-of-dead-hives)


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

MonkeyMcBean said:


> Are there non-TF folks posing here?


 All I am posing is a question. I'm not posing as a TF beekeeper, which I am not. I like to see how people come to conclusions sometimes.


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## MonkeyMcBean (Mar 1, 2017)

Sorry that was a typo, supposed to be "posting". Not accusing anyone...


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)




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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

> All I am posing is a question.


 If I stand on one leg with one arm as a handle and the other as a spout, does that make me a teapot? If I crack a smile while posing as a teapot, does that make me a crackpot? If I lean to one side tipping the crackpot, does that make me a sqkcrk?

You will get all kinds of answers when asking about feeding bees. This is one of those areas where reality can get in the way ethos and ego. If a beekeepers takes the path of never feeding his bees, he will eventually encounter circumstances where his bees are starving. He can either swallow his ego and feed the bees or he can let them die. A wise beekeeper keeps his bees alive.

Remember that a lot of beekeepers have tried TF and failed. Starting with known TF bees is the single biggest predictor of success keeping bees without treatments.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Love you too, Fp.


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

“What we know about honey bee nutrition now was learned mostly during the 50s-70s, and recent studies specifically on honey bee nutrition are very few.” “Honey Bee Nutrition,” Zachary Huang (2010) www.beeccdcap.uga.edu/documents/caparticle10.html. “In view of current knowledge of contemporary levels of honey bee exposure to pesticides (28) and of increased pathogen loads caused by globalization of trade (e.g., ref.7), examining the ability of honey and honey substitutes to regulate expression of detoxification and immunity genes would seem to be a high priority. At minimum, after comprehensive testing and development, p-coumaric acid may find use as an additive to honey substitutes to allow beekeepers to maintain colonies during food shortages without compromising the ability of their bees to defend themselves against the pesticides and pathogens that currently bedevil beekeeping in the United States.” “Honey constituents up-regulate detoxification and immunity genes in the western honey bee Apis mellifera,” W. Mao et al., http://www.pnas.org/content/110/22/8842.full#ref-7 

“[F]eeding sugar syrup to bees is like saying that you’re ‘feeding’ your growing child by giving him a Coke.” Randy Oliver scientificbeekeeping.com/fat-bees-part-2/. Bees need certain vitamins and minerals. “Nutrition and health in honey bees,” R. Brodschneider and K. Crailsheim (2009), www.apidologie.org/articles/apido/full_html/2010/03/m09120/m09120.html#InR48, citing “Honey bee nutrition,” Haydak M.H. (1970), Ann. Rev. Entomol. Also Randy Oliver, Honey Bee Nutrition (part 4), http://www.beeculture.com/randy-oliver-honeybee-nutrition-part-4/. Most of these vitamins and minerals aren’t available in sugar syrup. http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/sweets/5592/2. But they may be available from pollen already in the hive or from nectar or pollen that can be brought in by the bees. So the effect of feeding frames of honey from a healthy hive vs. feeding sugar syrup can depend on whether there is pollen in the hive or whether then current conditions allow foraging.

Bees may need the inoculation of beneficial bacteria or other biotics for the culture in the bees' crop (foregut), midgut, or hind gut, from nectar. This inoculation may be available regardless of whether you feed syrup and may not be materially affected by the bees eating nectar versus syrup. Also, as odd as it seems, the beneficial microbes in the bees' gut may themselves need vitamins or minerals that are available in nectar, but not sugar syrup.

The effect of feeding on robbing varies by location, bee breed, time of year, and conditions. I don't feed syrup. I don't own a robbing screen and haven't needed one. Some folks who feed apparently don't have a problem with robbing if they keep the entrance very small. 

The above considerations of nutrition, biotics, and robbing could effect the bees' resistance to disease including varroa vectored diseases, including DWV. Having said all that, dysbiosis, disease resistance, and robbing are not concerns if your bees have died from starvation.


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## MonkeyMcBean (Mar 1, 2017)

Fusion_power said:


> You will get all kinds of answers when asking about feeding bees. This is one of those areas where reality can get in the way ethos and ego. If a beekeepers takes the path of never feeding his bees, he will eventually encounter circumstances where his bees are starving. He can either swallow his ego and feed the bees or he can let them die. A wise beekeeper keeps his bees alive.


Sure, but I'm not talking about the situation where my bees are starving. If their stores are gone, and theres no flow, Ill feed for sure. I've never been one for absolutes, and am self-aware enough to know that I basically know nothing. That's why I'm asking.

Do bees feed each other? Will field bees feed nurse bees in a Flow if there's no comb to store nectar? Or, in the absence of a feeder, is comb necessary for bees who don't leave the hive to eat?


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## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

Normally the bees fill themselves with honey before swarming, which lasts a few days. Do they find a nesting place they start to build comb, a small amount, and then they send foragers to sustain the builders. By and by they expand.
They normally swarm in a flow and with fine weather. Do they not find a place they starve.
In a flow they build very fast.

But if you have package bees you have to provide with sugar syrup and maybe pollen patties. They are not adapted to this situation.
Bees feed each other all the time as you can see at the entrance. The foragers are fed before bringing pollen, the young bees which orient are fed and so on.

I believe comb is necessary to store the pollen in the beginning. They must start breeding and for that some comb and pollen stores are important to survive. If the queens lays more eggs than the nurse bees can feed these eggs are eaten or left alone. If they cannot fly to bring pollen the eggs and larvae is eaten.


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## msl (Sep 6, 2016)

Great point based what the bees need to over come an unnatural beekeeper induced situation, vs an natural event for witch they are prepared.


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## Eikel (Mar 12, 2014)

Well Monkey, we've beaten this horse sufficiently, did you find and answer to your question in all the rhetoric?

One small note on the poisonous impact of vinegar; tried a new sugar brick recipe this winter - an oz of vinegar per lb of sugar and a splash of HBH. No winter losses, who'd have thunk it. Can't say whether it converted anything but it sure didn't kill them (or give them dysentery)


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## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

If I were you, monkey, I would rather enjoy my bees than join this debate about what food to use.

In the season bees will take everything if they starve, even fruit juice from ripe fruits in trees and sugar icing in bakeries. The food for the larvae is important, the beebread! 

See: hungry bees attack a bakery:
https://www.welt.de/regionales/rhei...ngrige-Bienen-fallen-ueber-Baeckerei-her.html

If you feed now and the hive gets strong and you see the first capped honey corners and there is still a flow, relax. Leave them the honey and they need no feeding into winter.
From then on you can take only surplus. You can follow the "gurus" or your own ideas.


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## dlbrightjr (Dec 8, 2015)

ToeOfDog said:


> You might want to research the negative effects of sugar syrup on the microflora in a bee's gut.


You might also want to research the effect of starvation on the microflora in a bee's gut. Might also want to research the effect of starvation on the enthusiasm and well being of the hive, beekeeper, and microflora in a bee's gut.


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## dlbrightjr (Dec 8, 2015)

MonkeyMcBean said:


> This is maybe my primary concern, but I also want to insure they build quick enough to make it through the impending winter...


I always try to stay positive and be encouraging. With that said; if this is your primary concern you're already in trouble. You better learn to keep your bees alive and healthy before you start wondering if their microflora is happy or whether or not they need holistic spa treatments. I don't mean to be rude, but, I guess I will be. You are not likely to be successful if you don't start listening to some of the sane advice. From some of your posts I can't help but think you have little chance. It is easy to get distracted.


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## MonkeyMcBean (Mar 1, 2017)

Should have said: "primary reason for considering not feeding" 

Nobody else seemed to have trouble gleaning my meaning from context. This is the second time I think we've had a similar discussion. Is English not your first language?


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## dlbrightjr (Dec 8, 2015)

No problems. I new better than to respond. I don't see the difference between reason or concern in this context. I remember how rude you were to oldtimer. Once again it is my fault for responding, I new better. It will not happen again. I wish you the best of luck. You're going to need it.


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## MonkeyMcBean (Mar 1, 2017)

I would not have an issue with your response if it had been an attempt to answer my question and help me "keep my bees alive". Instead, you chose to declare that I am doomed to failure and offer no information to avoid the failure you are certain I am doomed to. 

I am sorry your friend and I disagreed, but I see no reason why that should mean that we are somehow enemies. If you choose not to offer your help, that is your prerogative. 


> I don't mean to be rude, but, I guess I will be.


It is nice that you didn't want to be rude, but if you then subsequently choose to be, you should not be surprised to receive treatment in kind.


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## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

I´m a big fan of Eric Österlund.
Why?
Because he is an example to civilized behavior, a good beekeeper and answers every question I send him via mail in a most kind way ( just like MB).
I quote out of his website:



> There are many threats to honeybees. The life philosophy of today sometimes forget to learn from nature. Many times we are too quick to use what we have invented and which seems beneficial – as plant protection chemicals and management methods for keeping bees. Honeybees, like everything else, adapt to function well – to certain limits. And drawbacks may well show up – as higher susceptibility to diseases and less resistance to pests and parasites.
> 
> The goal is to not use any treatment, but to help the bees develop and maintain highest possible life fitness.
> Me
> I’m working with bees and media,* love* nature, family and *people*. But most of all The Creator who made it all possible.


He works with all kind of people without prejudice. He speaks with beekeepers who treat. He does not critize others. He convinces indirectly through honesty, success and kindness. I´m proud to be his friend and I´m proud to be mentioned on his blog.
He is one of my "gurus" as some disparaging would say. To me a guru is someone I have chosen as an example to better my life. In a positive way. Without exploitation, financially or mentally. 

That said, I want to thank JWchestnut to talk about his tf efforts and OT to take part in the tf forum. I´m ignoring the rudeness and use the most wonderful information given as much as I´m able to without being a native speaker.

Often, if you are dedicated to a cause, others feel attacked if they think differently. It´s difficult to handle this while posting in a forum and much easier when meeting the person.


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

SiWolKe said:


> I´m a big fan of Eric Österlund.


"What you many times forget is that each part of a management system, including the hive configurtaion’s different parts, is a result of this whole management system in which each part fits well enough for the beekeeper. If you change one part, you may have to change also other parts to make the system work well for you. And special circumstances for you may play a role why you have chosen the solutions you use." Eric Österlund http://www.elgon.es/diary/


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## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

Riverderwent said:


> And special circumstances for you may play a role why you have chosen the solutions you use." Eric Österlund http://www.elgon.es/diary/


Yes. And you maybe never reach a state and find the solution, because circumstances change all the time. 

Let´s just try our best. Take the consequences and keep on. I really hope I will find the system which works for me. Listen to good advise...think...and make your decision.

Sorry to have changed the topic.


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