# How much space to give before the Goldenrod starts? Wisconsin



## Hambone (Mar 17, 2008)

What I did this year (my first) with my first package. As the flow was coming in good I took off the lid and pulled back the follower board and peaked to see how much they were building. I would add a bar here and there to make it were they had 4-5 empty bars in the back at all times. About every 2 weeks or so as the good flow was happening, I would shift the bars back starting at the 2nd or 3rd bar and put in a empty brood bar. Seemed to work great. Nothing but honey in the back and brood in the front. Queen had room to lay and the workers had room to store.


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## Tomas (Jun 10, 2005)

Howdy Adrian,

Although I’ve done most of my beekeeping in Honduras, I’ve been up here in central Wisconsin (where I’m from originally) working for a commercial operation for the season. Last year when I was up here we didn’t really see much of any goldenrod honey. Flowers were all over the place but they didn’t really yield much (or the bees couldn’t take advantage of them.) First it was really dry and then it just started raining too much. Not getting much of any goldenrod honey has been the story for the last three years according to the people I work for.

This year might be different though. With all the rain we’ve received this spring and summer, there is a good possibility the goldenrod could go bonkers on nectar (if it doesn’t keep raining that is.) Keep a sharp eye on how the bees are working. If things turn out well, the bees could fill those five empty bars pretty fast.

If I am remembering right from what I heard you might be able to get at least 30 pounds (or maybe more) of golden rod honey. That’s potentially six bars of honey. That bit of empty space could fill up fast (or maybe not at all if the weather wants to put a damper on things.) It seems hard to predict what goldenrod might do.

I started several of my own top bar hives up here in Wisconsin—something to dink around with on the weekends. They’re the exact same style I have in Honduras. I started with five nucs and caught three swarms. All eight are real strong on population now. If the weather stays a bit drier I think they’ll really start to pack away honey (or maybe they already are since I haven’t seen them in a couple weeks), especially if the goldenrod nectar is there this year. I got my fingers crossed.

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Tom


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

Thanks Derek and Tom, particularly Tom as the local information is specifically what I was looking for. I looked in the hive yesterday. Loads of bees, open and capped brood, capped honey above the brood bars, one collapsed comb - which I took out,and newly built comb from a week ago on two bars I had inserted.
I spread the combs to insert three remaining bars, and left about 2 inches behind the follower board at the back so I have room to work when I next go in there. I am now going to leave them alone to do their thing. Adrian.


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## MapMan (May 24, 2007)

I agree with Tomas - with the large amount of rain which we have had in WI this year, the plants are taller than they were last year, and from what I have seen so far (they just started blooming in my area this week), the golden rod is looking very promising.

MM


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## Tomas (Jun 10, 2005)

Howdy Adrian,

Here’s a bit more information after talking with the guy I work for (30 years of commercial beekeeping experience here in Wisconsin). 

He says on good years the goldenrod can actually yield up to 60 pounds of honey. That would be a nice amount of honey to still get this year! So keep an even closer eye on what the bees are doing.

He said at one time he would take the hives out to the Dakotas this time of the year for sunflowers—which can give you an even bigger bumper crop of honey. But after figuring in the amount of goldenrod honey you could get here and then the transportation expense and then the toll the pesticides out there took on the hives, it was better to just leave them here. 

As far as swarming, it’s not that common in the fall. Even though you may see some swarms this time of the year, they are more of a spring/early summer thing. If the nectar starts coming in, the bees will probably reduce the brood nest area by plugging it up with honey before they actually try to swarm.

I talked to my brother last night. My hives are at his place. He said the goldenrod is starting to bloom there and the bees are jumping on it. I’m crossing my fingers even more now for fall honey.

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Tom


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

Wow. 60 pounds is a lot. I'll keep an eye on it. Thanks again, Adrian.


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## Tomas (Jun 10, 2005)

Adrian and MapMan, how did (is) the golden rod doing over by you guys? 

It started out a bit slow over where I’m at and then it just began to go bonkers. Empty supers turned into full super with in a week for the beekeeper I work for. It’s been a 60-pound golden rod flow, if not more. Although the cooler weather the last two days has seemed to slow things down a bit, there’s still a good bit of really yellow flowers out there yet--so it’s not totally over with yet. Some places look like it’s about over with—flowers are all brown. But then in another place not far away the golden rod is really yellow yet. We went out to pull supers today and there was a good bit of flight yet from the bees. We’ll see how much more they bring in before it’s all done with, especially if it warms up a bit again.

I haven’t had the chance to check my own hives—that’ll have to wait until next weekend unfortunately. I’m hoping there’s going to be a good bit of honey to pull out of them.

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Tom


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

*Goldenrod is still going.*

Well Tomas thanks for asking. The Goldenrod is still going well. I went into my TBH on the 3rd. A cooler day after we had seen a couple of days pushing 90. I went in from the back and inspected forward until I reached the brood nest area. All the bars had combs and I took out 8 pounds of honey from 3 bars leaving a couple of inches at the top of the bars for them to start off. This is my first season with the bees and I did not want to take so much that they would be starving by spring. The GR flowers still seem to be going strong and when I came home from work today I saw bees still Zipping off in the direction of the fields of GR in the area. I have read that Labor day was about the last time we should take honey in the north. This has been a great learning experience for me. Next year I plan to run a couple of Langstroths and another TBH. If my girls survive the winter I plan to make a split form them and buy a package. A local guy gave me a bunch of Langstroth boxes so it'll be interesting to run both. Are you in Wisconsin to stay or are you going back to Honduras? I enjoyed your swarm catching pages. Adrian.


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## Tomas (Jun 10, 2005)

Howdy Adrian,

Glad to hear you got some more honey from your hives. If you want, you can just about cut the whole comb off the bar when harvesting. I usually just leave about a quarter-inch ridge of comb on the top bar and the bees start building it back just fine. But you are right about leaving them something for the winter. 

I’m up here in Wisconsin just for the season. The bees get sent out to California at the end of October so I’ll be heading back down to Honduras at the beginning of November. Once down there, I start working with my own hives. When the honey season ends up here, it’s just beginning down there. I get the best of both places. But hopefully I’ll be back up here next year.

Here are a couple photos of the tbhs I have up here with my brother.

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s313/Tomas_fotos/Bees in Wisconsin/checkingthehives.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s313/Tomas_fotos/Bees in Wisconsin/newcombfromthetbh.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s313/Tomas_fotos/Bees in Wisconsin/Harvestinghoney.jpg

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Tom


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

The problem is that some years the goldenrod makes a lot of honey and some years none. So far this looks like a good year (here anyway). It's a guess at best.


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

Tom, thanks for posting the photos. I use the exact same ice-cream bucket for harvesting. I like your use of the plastic cover for shade and waterproofing. How many hives do you run in Honduras? Are they all TBH? Adrian


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## Wojtek (May 31, 2005)

I do not know if there are any other reasons of what Mr.Bush says, beyond weather. I experienced what he says the last year. I counted on golden rod and bees of course more than I did. However very early frost and freeze cut off blooming and there was nothing from golden rod in Chicago area. Later there were some wormer days but this did not revitalize golden rod. I was seriously afraid of bees not surviving the winter. My great pleasure and surprise was in spring time when all families survived. Two of them were installed very late and were very small. I was sure that they will not survive on a base of opinion of experienced beekeepers, but my trend for experimentation caused that I installed them anyway.
There was no feeding except these two in early stage of their development.
Other years at the time of golden rod blooming there was pleasure to pass by or stand close to a hive. The aroma was intense and pleasant.


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## Tomas (Jun 10, 2005)

Adrian, the plastic covering my hives is actually from these big silage bags the dairy farmers use. My brother-in-law fills bags for other farmers and sometimes there isn’t enough silage to finish the bag so he cuts off the end of it (which I later lay claim to). It’s nice thick plastic and is suppose to last for years (and free!). Keeps the hives dry. Other than the top bars themselves, it’s the only cover I have on them right now.

I’m hoping we’ll have to break out the five-gallon buckets when we go to harvest them next weekend. I want that ice-cream pail to be too small 

In Honduras I run between 60 and 70 hives, in two yards. All are tbhs. Two-thirds are the trapezoidal Kenyan tbhs. The other third are the rectangular Tanzanian tbhs. In the later I use frames and foundation (small cell) with some because I started using an extractor. The frames all have the wide top bars on them to keep the closed system. Last year the frames worked well. 

Wojtek, I know what you mean about the aroma from the golden rod honey. We go into some of the yards and that smell hits you right in the face. My boss says it smells like musty socks (I don’t know if I would go that far myself) but the flavor is really good and it has a nice light color to it.

And as far as golden rod being unpredictable for getting honey, that’s what I hear about the plant also. Last year is was too dry up until the start of the bloom. Then we started to get some good rains but it seemed like it was too late to get the plants to yield much nectar. The year before was supposedly the same. This year we got good rains through most of July but the goldenrod still started out a bit slow. It wasn’t really yielding anything and then the weather got a bit warmer and it really started to kick in. The bees filled up the supers fast.

Here are more photos, this time of the golden rod in Wisconsin. 

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s313/Tomas_fotos/Bees in Wisconsin/goldenrod01.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s313/Tomas_fotos/Bees in Wisconsin/goldenrod02.jpg

Is this the same type of golden rod you see in other parts of the States? I’ve heard there are different species. I’ve also heard some golden rod makes a darker honey with a real strong flavor (even to the point of being disagreeable to people). What are other people seeing?

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Tom


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