# Copper Naphthenate



## max2 (Dec 24, 2009)

Has anybody used Copper Naphthenate as a treatment for suppers? Any disadvantages?
thanks

max2


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

Been using it at 8% copper nahp to 92% parafin dipping boxes for 12 hrs at 200 degrees. Boxes I dipped in 1994 look new today! I dont paint...just dip and use. LOve it!


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## Grant (Jun 12, 2004)

I'm getting ready to try it. I researched the archives (lots of competing answers and differing opinions) and from my perspective found it to be safe.

I have a five-gallon bucket of Perme-8 from Dadants. I'm going to blend/dilute it with five gallons of #2 Diesel to one gallon of Perme-8. This will give me a 1.3% dipping solution.

I went to the local farm supply store and found a rubber, chemically-neutral, 30-gallon oval horse tank. It was sold under the name of "Tuff Stuff." An assembled deep brood box fits nicely in it (even took an assembled brood box with me to the store to make sure).

My plan, now that we're done with the holidays, is to assemble my boxes first, then dip, then allow ample time to dry out before I put them to use in April. I can assemble a box in 8 minutes, and with the time to remove one box from the dip tank and put another one in, that should give me a dip time of ten minutes.

Will that be long enough? Don't know, we'll see. I have no plans to paint these boxes, but I read that if you want to paint them, an oil-based paint is required, but only after they have sufficient time to dry. 

I'm also dipping SBB and since they're already assembled, I'll probably leave them in the tank for 24 hours when I'm at work.

Bear in mind, there are different ways to do this. John Pluto prefers to dip, then dry, then assemble. You can search out his style on youtube.com by searching for his name.

Grant
Jackson, MO


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## AR Beekeeper (Sep 25, 2008)

I dip my boxes for a minum of 24 hours, other beekeepers I know go up to 72 hours plus. I am in the process of dipping 24 deep bodies, one body a day. 

The tank I have will only hold one deep or two mediums when they are assembled but I would rather dip after assembly than handle the dipped parts.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

I've got to say, I'm a bit uncomfortable with the idea of dipping supers in a diesel/coppernapthanate mix. I not nuts about dipping in parafin/napthanate. Why not stack and spray paint the exteriors? I don't think I've ever had one rot from the inside out.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Yummy yummy...diesel tainted honey.


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## peacekeeperapiaries (Jun 23, 2009)

I know big beeks who dip them in CN mixed with mineral spirits (i think). They are happy with its performance and no ill effects. Some dip the box sides prior to building and others build them first. For me I agree with BEEMANDAN I stack and paint them with a commercial spray setup (2 coats latex).


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## fish_stix (May 17, 2009)

The diesel fuel might be bad news! It takes a LONG time for the diesel to evaporate and the smell stays a lot longer. We used to dip ours in the copper napthenate and mineral spirits and never had a problem. 10 minutes is not long enough though! When you dip them you'll be able to see how far the green stuff has penetrated at the ends of the board (end grain). Leave them in until the fingers of the joint are penetrated, as the end grain is where any moisture enters the wood.


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## Broke-T (Jul 9, 2008)

We dip all boxes, bottoms, and exposed sides of tops in CN we buy at Lowes. We assemble first, then dip, feel we get better glue joint this way. Then paint with oil based white barn paint. After cost and time of building a box want it to last a long time'

After airing for a few days have had no problems. 

Johnny


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Broke-T said:


> After cost and time of building a box want it to last a long time'
> Johnny


Well said Jonny.

I dip in parafin then paint.


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## Bsupplier (Dec 23, 2008)

I havent dipped any boxes yet but if your rolling the paint on I have a slick trick. Use two sawhorses and run two 2x4's inside of your assembled boxes. Now they are suspended. I use a brush to paint the hand holds and then a roller to go over the boxes. You can turn the boxes without having to put a wet side down. Separate the boxes in between coats while drying. Depending on the length of your 2 x 4's you can paint a lot of boxes fast this way.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Broke-T said:


> We dip all boxes, bottoms, and exposed sides of tops in CN we buy at Lowes.


I hope you are, at least, diluting that CN.


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## Grant (Jun 12, 2004)

It's funny, about ten years ago I toured a large beekeeping outfit and they dipped their boxes in Cop Nap and diesel. My reaction was the same as yours. YUCK! How could they do that!

Having watched and revisited this beekeeper each year, he's been a great source of information and inspiration. I think the diesel is a better alternative to the mineral spirits, and it's hard to tell any ill effects from what I've seen. He dips tops and bottoms and brood boxes, not the supers. That's my plan as well.

Thanks for the comment on the time to dip. I've read some guys brush the Cop Nap on with a paint brush with a stronger concentration than the 1.3%. Now I didn't think that was long enough.

I appreciate the differing opinions and the openness to share different ideas. Iron cannot sharpen itself.

Grant
Jackson, MO


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## 11x (May 14, 2009)

how much is this copper napathanate? is it just that simple mix,dip,dry,paint? does it evaporate from the tub you use? i was wanting to dip a few top bar hives before i assemble them. i want to leave them natural wood looking. how dark dows it turn the wood? thanks


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## jbford (Apr 17, 2009)

if you just need a little, Lowes has the water based Termin-8 brand and Rossman's has a solvent based brand (both in 1 gallon for about $15 or so)

They are liquids. The water based is thinnable with water (doh!), the one Rossman's sells is thinnable with mineral spirits. Behr also has one but my Home Depot does not have it.

Wood treated with either one takes oil or latex paint well if you let it dry for a few days.

Water based is brown, solvent based is green. When you smell it you will know what gives canvas tents that funky smell!


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## honeydreams (Aug 10, 2009)

Grant said:


> I have a five-gallon bucket of Perme-8 from Dadants. I'm going to blend/dilute it with five gallons of #2 Diesel to one gallon of Perme-8. This will give me a 1.3% dipping solution.
> 
> Grant
> Jackson, MO


Um # 2 Diesel? don't dip your hives body parts in that mixed with anything your bees might die at worst or really screw up your honey with a diesel flavor.


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## honeydreams (Aug 10, 2009)

I use termin 8 brown my hives look like cedar when I am done no ill effects cheap and easy no need to water it down. no rot no bugs chewing on the wood as well.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

If you are soaking or dipping your hive parts in CN, please be sure to dilute. If you check this link, go down to study number 5. CN diluted to 2% and applied to a single interior surface (the bottom board) showed significant reductions in the bees learning and memory. Although not significant, there was some noticeable reduction in brood production. Imagine how much greater this might be if there are six surfaces (four walls, a bottom and top) and add the potential impact of higher concentrations. If you buy Copper Green at Lowes, for example, it comes at a 10% concentration (5 times greater than used in the study). This doesn’t take into account the possible impact of unapproved dilutants.

http://www.extension.org/pages/Proceedings_of_the_American_Bee_Research_Conference,_2009

I am not trying to be critical. I am only suggesting caution.
Best of the New Year.


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## B Reeves (Oct 2, 2009)

if you look at the data there is a small drop in livability, probably gets better after many years, there might be a short term-long term trade off
Bob


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## fafrd (Aug 22, 2009)

Is there any way to apply this CN only to the oustide surfaces of the hive body? Can it be painted on?

-fafrd


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## max2 (Dec 24, 2009)

Beemandan thanks. I have to agree ( after reading the reserch paper) that caution is indeed a good policy.
The reason I wrote the initially is that I like this opportunity this forun offers to listen and learn and then make an informed decision. Thanks to all.
( I tried to paste the article but it does not display prperly - just go to the site suggested and go to the 5. article)


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## honeydreams (Aug 10, 2009)

fafrd said:


> Is there any way to apply this CN only to the oustide surfaces of the hive body? Can it be painted on?
> 
> -fafrd


Yes its a liquid you brush it on simple.


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## Grant (Jun 12, 2004)

For those of you who brush your Cop Nap on the outside, do you use the Lowe's water-based Cop Nap undiluted per the instructions on the jug? Or do you dilute it? This is the brown stuff.

Or do you use the solvent Cop Nap (green stuff)? If so, how do you dilute it?

One coat or two? Brush or roller?

Thanks, all the best,

Grant
Jackson MO


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## Velbert (Mar 19, 2006)

I use the Green stuf, one I get from dadants 5 gallon container and mix this with paint thinner or mineral spirit I like to use a 10% mixture on all parts and I get me a plastic tote from wall-mart and soak several pieces at a time and then have to turn them over to get the other end I soak them for about 15 minutes per end and I do the soaking before I build them and then I strip them for 1-2 weeks and let them air dry

soak your longer pieces first and as the dip level gets lower put in your shorter parts some of them you will need to put some weight on them to hold them submerged


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Grant said:


> For those of you who brush your Cop Nap on the outside, do you use the Lowe's water-based Cop Nap undiluted per the instructions on the jug? Or do you dilute it?


I don't use it but....I think if I did I'd be mainly interested in soaking end grain and any ground contact parts.
The recommended dilution rates are intended for folks who soak the entire part, covering both outside and inside (exposing bees to it). I imagine that if it were applied only to exterior surfaces the dilution wouldn't be nearly so important. 
Ground contact parts should probably be undiluted. 
If one put about half an inch of the stuff in a soaking tub and stood box sides so that only the end grains were submerged, then took endrails from bottom boards and soaked them, covering only the bottom half inch (where they may contact the soil) and then standing them to soak end grain....one would probably be ok at full strength.
I know, I know....more labor but it would probably do the job effectively and use less CN.


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

I use the green stuff on my pallets, after they are assembled and stacked a garden sprayer works well for me, soak the end grain well.


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