# Bees Not allowed



## Dan. NY (Apr 15, 2011)

After reading this a few times, I dont see anything that specifically disallows bee keeping. To me, nothing there pertains to bees. One could argue the disease restriction does not apply to bees. Did the zoning officer say which of those items bee keeping violates, in his opinion? Or did he just send you an email saying its against the law, here is the law. I might get a hive or two, have a backup location just in case, and not worry that the law is being violated. But... if you wanted to press the issue, ask specifically which law, which part of the law, and exactly how bees fit into the law that is being violated. Pin down whoever it is that said no.. make them explain the whys to you. Nicely and pleasantly of course. Another idea is to talk to the other apiary owners and ask them their experience with the law. Good luck.


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## bakpakr (Jun 21, 2012)

He just said it is against the law here is the law, no specifics.

Here is what i replied to him with;
"Thank you for the quick reply to my question.

According to your attached reference I see that you may be wrong in that keeping bees is not permitted.

"ANIMAL HUSBANDRY -- The raising and keeping of livestock, poultry or insects for commercial purposes, or any keeping of animals for any reason beyond what is allowed in a permitted stable or kennel or under the keeping of pets, in compliance with § 255-200D(6). Animal husbandry shall not include a bulk commercial slaughterhouse or a central commercial stockyard for animals awaiting slaughter"

The bees would NOT be kept for commercial purposes. All products of the hive would be for personal consumption.

A. Communicable disease hazards, including activities that encourage the breeding of disease-prone insects and rodents.

The hives will be registered with the state as per law (copy attached). Also hives will be inspected for disease per law.

B. Activity that would create physically dangerous conditions, especially activities that would be easily accessible by small children.

Hives would be maintained in a manner to preclude easy access by children and or the general public. Bees are not classified as a dangerous organism unless disturbed and all prudent safety measures would be in place to preclude such activity.

C. Activity that would prevent a neighboring landowner of ordinary sensitivities from making reasonable use of their property.

Hives and bees would be maintained in a manner to not interfere with neighboring landowners reasonable use of their property.

D. Activity that would be a significant hazard to the public health and safety because of serious explosive, fire, biological or toxic hazards.

Bees and beekeeping do not present a significant hazard to public health and safety by any known authority.

I will be in the near future proposing local legislation that will specifically address the keeping of Honey Bees within the borough.

Thank you for your time."


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## westernbeekeeper (May 2, 2012)

Sounds like a good reply to me. Keep us updated.


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## BPApiaries (Jan 30, 2012)

1) The way I read it, the code is basically stating that they either consider an animal (or animals) to be pets or to be being raised for commercial reasons. I think you would have to make a case for the bees being pets (such as an ant farm would be considered to be).
2) I think they mean diseases that effect humans or create an environmental danger but I could be wrong.
3) If being five feet from a hive is considered dangerous then I really don't think you can convince people that a wall will make them safe when the insects fly. As beekeepers we know that bees will pretty much only bother a person if that person REALLY deserves it, but John Q Public doesn't know that (and never will).
4) Same as above. Laws and ordinances such as these are not based on logic but on irrational concerns without any research. 
5) Same as above.

Honestly your best bet is to try to get the ordinance changed. You can try to keep bees without getting caught or try to change the ordinance and then keep bees, but if you fight and get around the already existing ordinance you will probably just bring more attention to yourself. I severely doubt if anyone on your local zoning counsel actually cares about this ordinance personally, but if you make them aggravated with you simple human nature will cause them to take notice of you in a negative way. Best to just play the game amicably and get it changed.

Just my $0.02


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## bakpakr (Jun 21, 2012)

BPApiaries said:


> 1) The way I read it, the code is basically stating that they either consider an animal (or animals) to be pets or to be being raised for commercial reasons. I think you would have to make a case for the bees being pets (such as an ant farm would be considered to be).
> 2) I think they mean diseases that effect humans or create an environmental danger but I could be wrong.
> 3) If being five feet from a hive is considered dangerous then I really don't think you can convince people that a wall will make them safe when the insects fly. As beekeepers we know that bees will pretty much only bother a person if that person REALLY deserves it, but John Q Public doesn't know that (and never will).
> 4) Same as above. Laws and ordinances such as these are not based on logic but on irrational concerns without any research.
> ...


Totally agree.
I have had dealings with the zoning officer in the past and it was not a good experience for either of us. I proved him wrong and made him look like a fool. So I have been on the radar for a while now. That is why I asked for clarification on keeping bee in the borough. 

I could go the route of it is easier to ask forgiveness than ask for permission. But being on the boroughs radar kind of makes that a bit more difficult. 

Before I place some hives I WILL get the law either changed or have wording included that is specific to bee keeping. Just need to figure out how to proceed at this point. 

S


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## SRBrooks (Jun 24, 2012)

I know of one case, Wilhelm v. Flores (2003) in Texas, in which the court decided that bees, unlike wild animals, are within the classification of "ferae naturae" which have been domesticated. Bees are not pets, nor are they animals, nor are they exotic, nor are they rare. You could look up a lot of cases such as this and inundate the zoning powers-that-be with evidence.

I didn't ask my HOA for permission, because the CC&R prohibitions apply to animals, exotics, and anything not commonly kept as a pet, which bees are not. Besides, they can't prohibit me from keeping bees as long as they allow one of my neighbors to have a pet bobcat. A neighbor even had an African Mongoose. 

So put a fence around your hives. Beehives have probably caused fewer deaths than swimming pools, which have to be fenced.


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## TrvVn5 (May 2, 2012)

Let me know how you make out with this. I live in Harrisburg, but I keep my bees in the Carlisle area. Thankfully, my hive is not in the borough and is in much more of a rural location. But I am considering moving to the Carlisle area in the relatively near future and I hope that I will be able to keep my bees on my property. Good luck.


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## SRBrooks (Jun 24, 2012)

I just noticed that you said there are several apiaries in the borough. How can they allow those, but not allow yours? Do you think they simply don't know about them?


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

Perhaps these beekeepers may have some advice for you. Montgomery County Beekeepers Association.


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## bakpakr (Jun 21, 2012)

SRBrooks said:


> I just noticed that you said there are several apiaries in the borough. How can they allow those, but not allow yours? Do you think they simply don't know about them?


Yes I don't think they know about them. I am hoping that by raising this with the borough I don't get them in hot water. 



Joseph Clemens said:


> Perhaps these beekeepers may have some advice for you. Montgomery County Beekeepers Association.


Will do thanks!!!

I am in touch with my county Bee coordinator and we will see. They law will be changed or clarified when I am done.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

bakpakr said:


> 2. Don't know how I can get past the provision of disease-prone. We all know that there are several diseases that the bees can get that would rear their ugly head to the powers that be.


Keep in mind, if people are allowed to keep dogs and cats under these rules, bees would fit as well. Dogs and cats are disease prone, but as owners, we take care of them in such a way so as not to be diseased.


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## seyc (Jul 15, 2012)

The "disease prone" refers to diseases that people can get from the animals. Like rabies, bubonic plague, tapeworms, etc.

These sound a lot like the regulations that we have.
Chapter 5.23
ANIMALS – KEEPING
Sections:
5.23.010 Keeping prohibited except in compliance with chapter.
5.23.020 Conditions for keeping.
5.23.025 Permit required for keeping wild or vicious animals or reptiles.
5.23.026 Allowing wild or vicious animals to run at large prohibited.
5.23.027 Exceptions for circuses, zoos, and transportation of wild animals.
5.23.030 Violations – Penalty.
5.23.010 Keeping prohibited except in compliance with chapter.
It shall be unlawful for any person to keep any horses, asses, mules, cattle, goats or sheep within the city limits of the City of
Tacoma; provided that this chapter shall not apply in areas in which slaughterhouses or stockyards are permitted by
appropriate ordinances of the City of Tacoma; provided, further, that upon full compliance with the provisions of
Section 5.23.020 of this chapter, the keeping of any such animal or animals may be permitted when the conditions of said
Section are and continue to be complied with in all respects. (Ord. 15852 § 1; passed Apr. 22, 1957)

Chapter 5.30
DOMESTIC FOWL
Sections:
5.30.010 Keeping – Prohibited places.
5.30.020 Running at large.
5.30.030 Exception upon consent of surrounding owners.
5.30.040 Penalty.
5.30.010 Keeping – Prohibited places.
It shall be unlawful for any person to keep chickens, geese, ducks, pigeons or other domestic fowl in any chicken house or
building within a distance of 50 feet from the nearest portion of any residence, dwelling, hotel, apartment house or rooming
house in the City of Tacoma; and the keeping of chickens, geese, ducks, pigeons or other domestic fowl as aforesaid is
hereby declared to be a public nuisance; provided that this chapter shall not apply in areas in which abattoirs or stockyards
are permitted by appropriate ordinances. (Ord. 22212 § 17; passed Sept. 30, 1980: Ord. 16586 § 1; passed Jun. 14, 1960)

Chapter 5.32
HOGS
5.32.010 Prohibited places.
The keeping of a hog or hogs within the City of Tacoma is hereby declared to be a public nuisance; provided that this chapter
shall not apply in areas in which abattoirs or stockyards are permitted by appropriate ordinance. (Ord. 22212 § 20; passed
Sept. 30, 1980: Ord. 4928 § 1; passed Apr. 17, 1912)

Chapter 5.34
RABBITS
5.34.010 Prohibited places.
It shall be unlawful for any person to keep rabbits in any rabbitry, building or other enclosure within a distance of 50 feet
from the nearest portion of any residence, dwelling, hotel, apartment house or rooming house now existing or hereafter
constructed, owned by any other person, in the City of Tacoma; and the keeping of rabbits in violation of the above
provisions is hereby declared to be a public nuisance. (Ord. 11342 § 1; passed Oct. 21, 1936)

But, the regulations also include:

Chapter 5.24
APIARIES
Sections:
5.24.010 Beekeeping – Maintenance of colonies – Nuisances designated.
5.24.020 Enforcement and entry – Right of entry for inspection.
5.24.030 Violation – Penalty.
5.24.010 Beekeeping – Maintenance of colonies – Nuisances designated.
A. It shall be the duty of any person having honey bees, Apis Mellifera, on his or her property to maintain each colony so as
not to create a public nuisance.
B. Honey bee colonies shall, in addition, be maintained in the following condition:
1. All honey bee hives shall be registered with the Washington State Department of Agriculture as required by
RCW 15.60.030.
2. Colonies shall be maintained in movable-frame hives.
3. Adequate techniques, such as requeening, in handling bees, and adequate space in the hive shall be maintained to prevent
unprovoked stinging 75 feet or more from the hive.
4. Lots having less than 10,000 square feet shall not have more than four hives.
5. Hives shall not be located within 75 feet of any property line, public street, sidewalk, or alley except when situated behind
a solid fence or hedge six feet in height parallel to any property line within 25 feet of the hive and extending at least 20 feet
beyond the hive in both directions, or if such fence completely encloses the hives.
C. All other nests (colonies) of stinging insects, such as yellow jackets, hornets, and wasps, including Vespidae, in trees,
buildings, underground, or in any other space, and diseased colonies of honey bees, constitute public nuisances. (Ord. 22662
§ 1; passed Apr. 6, 1982)
5.24.020 Enforcement and entry – Right of entry for inspection.
A. The Tacoma-Pierce County Health Department and the Police Department shall enforce this chapter.
B. Proper officers of the Tacoma-Pierce County Health Department and any Tacoma Police Officers are authorized and
empowered, during reasonable business hours, to enter premises to inspect hives or colonies for the purpose of ascertaining
the variety of insects occupying the hives, conditions of health, and management of crowding. Entry may be pursuant to
warrant or pursuant to the consent of the owner or occupier of the premises, or without consent or warrant if there is probable
cause to believe that a violation of this chapter is occurring on the premises and evidence thereof will be lost or destroyed
before a warrant can be issued. (Ord. 22662 § 1; passed Apr. 6, 1982)

To me, it sounds like they have no laws or ordinances against (or for) non-nuisance bees.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

seyc said:


> The "disease prone" refers to diseases that people can get from the animals. Like rabies, bubonic plague, tapeworms, etc.


I guess you can assume that, but it isn't written in such a way that that is the understanding. Unless I missed somewhere that states otherwise.


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## nbaum (Mar 12, 2012)

Sometimes its easier to ask for forgiveness than to get permission! Stay below the radar if its not too late for that.


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## bakpakr (Jun 21, 2012)

Excellent I may end up using portions of the law you posted in my proposal for an ordnance here.

Thanks

To late to go the ask forgiveness route as I am on the radar.


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## bakpakr (Jun 21, 2012)

Here is what I have so far for an amendment to the local zoning law. Tell me what you think and any suggestions, additions, corrections or what have you appreciated. 

§ 255-255 APIARIES
Beekeeping – Maintenance of colonies – Nuisances designated.
A. It shall be the duty of any person having honey bees, Apis Mellifera, on his or her property to maintain each colony so as not to create a public nuisance.

B. Honey bee colonies shall, in addition, be maintained in the following condition:

1. All honey bee hives shall be registered with the Pennsylvania State Department of Agriculture as required by 3 Pa.C.S.A. §§ 2101 – 2117.

2. Colonies shall be maintained in movable-frame hives.

3. Adequate techniques, such as requeening, in handling bees, and adequate space in the hive shall be maintained to prevent unprovoked stinging 75 feet or more from the hive.

4. Lots having less than 10,000 square feet shall not have more than four hives.

5. Hives shall not be located within 75 feet of any property line, public street, sidewalk, or alley except when situated behind a solid fence or hedge six feet in height parallel to any property line within 25 feet of the hive and extending at least 20 feet beyond the hive in both directions, or if such fence completely encloses the hives.

C. All other nests (colonies) of stinging insects, such as yellow jackets, hornets, and wasps, including Vespidae, in trees, buildings, underground, or in any other space, and diseased colonies of honey bees, constitute public nuisances. 

Enforcement and entry – Right of entry for inspection.

A. The Cumberland County Health Department and the Carlisle Borough Police Department shall enforce this chapter.

B. Proper officers of the Cumberland County Health Department and any Carlisle Borough Police Officers are authorized and empowered, during reasonable business hours, to enter premises to inspect hives or colonies for the purpose of ascertaining the variety of insects occupying the hives, conditions of health, and management of crowding. Entry may be pursuant to warrant or pursuant to the consent of the owner or occupier of the premises, or without consent or warrant if there is probable cause to believe that a violation of this chapter is occurring on the premises and evidence thereof will be lost or destroyed before a warrant can be issued.


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## seyc (Jul 15, 2012)

Barry said:


> I guess you can assume that, but it isn't written in such a way that that is the understanding. Unless I missed somewhere that states otherwise.


Oops. :doh: I have a degree in Microbiology. With that came some epidemiology, and basically, when the laws are written referring to "disease prone animals", it refers to animals and diseases that can be transferred to humans. Yea, one of those legal/medical things. :lookout:


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## seyc (Jul 15, 2012)

bakpakr said:


> Excellent I may end up using portions of the law you posted in my proposal for an ordnance here.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> To late to go the ask forgiveness route as I am on the radar.


Here is the link: http://cms.cityoftacoma.org/cityclerk/Files/MunicipalCode/Title05-HealthAndSanitation.PDF


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

bakpakr said:


> C. All other nests (colonies) of stinging insects, such as yellow jackets, hornets, and wasps, including Vespidae, in trees, buildings, underground, or in any other space, and diseased colonies of honey bees, constitute public nuisances.


I don't see why this should be included. EVERYONE has some form of stinging insect living on their property.


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## bakpakr (Jun 21, 2012)

Barry said:


> I don't see why this should be included. EVERYONE has some form of stinging insect living on their property.


Good point


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## seyc (Jul 15, 2012)

I noticed that you did not include the restriction on the amount of hives allowed. :lpf:


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## seyc (Jul 15, 2012)

Barry said:


> I don't see why this should be included. EVERYONE has some form of stinging insect living on their property.


I think this is a "cover their butts" inclusion. If you don't take care of it, it can become a public nuisance. Do you have any idea how long it takes to get a Health & Safety officer from the city to show up at your house after a complaint? Around here, 1.5-3 months. If you have a yellow jacket hive that is big enough for someone to complain about, and it is still there 3 months later, I would say that is a public nuisance.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

How is it a "public nuisance" when it's on non public property?


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## Gord (Feb 8, 2011)

Better to ask forgiveness than permission.
If you give them the opportunity to make a decision...


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## scrapiron (Aug 18, 2011)

He already said he is ratting the neighbors out for having hives. I dont understand why he invited the gOVERNMENT into his backyard in the first place. I would have put a small fence up and got bees, just like the neighbors.


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## TriJim (Mar 11, 2011)

Bakpakr -- Why don't you talk to Warren Miller / PA State Beekeepers Assn. Cumberland is still an agricultural county, the Penn State Ag extension folks will help, too. Your neighbor cities don't have these restrictions, sounds like an overly zealous zoning officer. There are PA State folks that will help you - better than out-of-state help for a problem like this. Good luck.


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## Ben Franklin (May 3, 2011)

bakpakr: Are you near Patton PA,,,message me if you do.
I just invested 18,000 bucks on a building on my farm. Then the twp I live in Ohio sued the Zoning Board of Appeals for allowing me to build it. The Twp spent, so far, over 45,000 for their attorney,,,they have not paid the attorney for the ZBA, that bill is also around 45,000.00. I stood my ground, and now the TWP insurance company that will have to pay the lawyers said to drop the case. In a way I won,, but I also lost. My 18,000.00 investment was torn down in an effort to stop any more money being wasted by the TWP Trustees. Now I am thinking of suing each one of them as Citizens,,not government officials,, my attorney says I have a good case and I can sue them as citizens.
I posted this to show city hall is not the final word. And oh BTW I used Ohio Revised Code to help the ZBA with evidence which states. TWP's and Counties have* no* Agricultural Buildings.
bakpakr : Fight em!!!!


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## bakpakr (Jun 21, 2012)

scrapiron said:


> He already said he is ratting the neighbors out for having hives. I dont understand why he invited the gOVERNMENT into his backyard in the first place. I would have put a small fence up and got bees, just like the neighbors.


I did not rat anyone out. I have not told the powers that be that there are hives in the borough. I do not plan to either. I am not sure if they know of the existence of the hives or not.


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## bakpakr (Jun 21, 2012)

Ben Franklin said:


> bakpakr: Are you near Patton PA,,,message me if you do.
> I just invested 18,000 bucks on a building on my farm. Then the twp I live in Ohio sued the Zoning Board of Appeals for allowing me to build it. The Twp spent, so far, over 45,000 for their attorney,,,they have not paid the attorney for the ZBA, that bill is also around 45,000.00. I stood my ground, and now the TWP insurance company that will have to pay the lawyers said to drop the case. In a way I won,, but I also lost. My 18,000.00 investment was torn down in an effort to stop any more money being wasted by the TWP Trustees. Now I am thinking of suing each one of them as Citizens,,not government officials,, my attorney says I have a good case and I can sue them as citizens.
> I posted this to show city hall is not the final word. And oh BTW I used Ohio Revised Code to help the ZBA with evidence which states. TWP's and Counties have* no* Agricultural Buildings.
> bakpakr : Fight em!!!!


Not anywhere near Patton. 

Not really fighting them. Just going to play their game and use their rules against them. I have gotten real good at doing that.


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## bakpakr (Jun 21, 2012)

TriJim said:


> Bakpakr -- Why don't you talk to Warren Miller / PA State Beekeepers Assn. Cumberland is still an agricultural county, the Penn State Ag extension folks will help, too. Your neighbor cities don't have these restrictions, sounds like an overly zealous zoning officer. There are PA State folks that will help you - better than out-of-state help for a problem like this. Good luck.



I am currently in touch with Kim Goodman who is the Pennapic county coordinator. They maintain the hive that are on the Governors grounds.

I will also get in touch with Warren thanks.


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## USCBeeMan (Feb 7, 2009)

I think fighting this a such a low government level is a waste of time. Even if you get your way, the next guy in that same office can nullify the previous ruling based on his/her interpretation of the law(s).

You would be better off getting your state beekeeping association involved. If you are not a member, then join their ranks. They are your best advocate.

In the state of TN, local laws have been passed over the last few years banning beekeeping. Some are county and some are city ordanances. 

The TBA (TN Beekeepers Association) finally got a bill through the state legislature and signed by the govenor either late last year or early this year that supercedes all local ordanances concerning beekeeping. This new law states that anyone can keep bees on their property. I think there is a maximum amount of hives which is based upon lot size(s).

With most everyone I know concerned about the plight of bees these days, it is much easier to get the public on your side.

A letter to the editor of your local and state newspapers couldn't hurt either. Enlighten these readers about bees, beekeeping, and the loss of bees across the country.


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## TheBuzz (Feb 8, 2012)

Disease prone if I'm mistaken is referring to insects which can harbor diseases communicable to humans.

I think you're ok cuz there's an apiary at the Governors Mansion in Harrisburg.


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## scrapiron (Aug 18, 2011)

"Yes I don't think they know about them. I am hoping that by raising this with the borough I don't get them in hot water." Oh, sorry. I guess I misunderstood.


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

Set up 3-4 empty hives in your backyard and leave them. Go out in a bee suit and inspect them occasionally. When they write you a ticket, take the code officer out back and show him the empty boxes, and film it. Now you can get your bees.


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## Rob Hughes (Apr 23, 2012)

Hi bakpakr and good luck in your efforts. 

Many municipalities are in the process of legalising or formalising beekeeping, due to the the exploding public interest and support for locally produced food and an awareness of the 'plight' of bees. Although this is often based on a poor understanding of the issue, it provides support nonetheless. I have found a lot of good info on this site, and if you google 'beekeeping' 'ordinance' 'code' 'bylaw' you will find many examples you can show to your local or district council, including model code text. I am pursuing this where I live and am exploring a partnership with the botanic garden in my local city as a first step. It is looking positive so far. I will see if I can email you a document where I have gathered up all the examples I found of codes etc in existence now. Some of them are surprisingly permissive, e.g. allowing bees in condos. Following Vancouver legalising beekeeping in 2006, there are now reportedly 3,000 beekeepers in the city!

cheers

Rob


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## TheBuzz (Feb 8, 2012)

Can you hide the hives?

My wife was all worried about bees in the backyard now she could care less because she forgets they're even there.


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## libhart (Apr 22, 2010)

To the OP....IMHO having a 20ft fence that goes beyond the hives in both directions is a bit much if the hives are not pointed at the property line in question. I have my hives about 10 ft from a property line. I talked to my neighbors before getting the bees. I put an 8ftx8ft fence behind the hives and the hives themselves are spaced so they take up most of the 8ft length of that fence...but they're pointed in the other direction towards my property. They've never been a nuisance to the neighbors and when you watch the bees they leave in the direction the hives are pointed and by the time they've made a turn one way or the other they're 20ft or higher. Building a 40ft long fence is a huge barrier to entry to someone that wants 1-2 hives and doesn't want them smack in the middle of the yard.


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## bakpakr (Jun 21, 2012)

Thaks everyone for the great responses and information. Keep it coming!!

I am now in contact with a PA State Dept. of Ag. Apiary inspector. She is on my (our)side. 

I will get the law either changed or new law enacted at the local level. I may also get the state law amended to take it out of the hands of local authorities hands as the state has a registration and inspection program in place and in my opinion would be better able to deal with apiaries than the local authorities.


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## Foster (Sep 28, 2011)

bakpakr said:


> Thaks everyone for the great responses and information. Keep it coming!!
> 
> I am now in contact with a PA State Dept. of Ag. Apiary inspector. She is on my (our)side.
> 
> I will get the law either changed or new law enacted at the local level. I may also get the state law amended to take it out of the hands of local authorities hands as the state has a registration and inspection program in place and in my opinion would be better able to deal with apiaries than the local authorities.


Bakpakr, how is this coming along? Anything concrete?
Thanks for taking it on.


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## BrazilBuzz (May 20, 2015)

I'd really enjoy an update on this as I live in the borough too and would like to know about your progress. I'd love to move one of my hives from Shippensburg to here. Thanks.


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

We haven't seen a post from bakpakr in 3 years. You might check with the borough re: the current status of the ordinance and if bakpakr was not successful or gave up, you could follow some of the suggestions given him or her.

Wayne


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## BrazilBuzz (May 20, 2015)

Thanks!





waynesgarden said:


> We haven't seen a post from bakpakr in 3 years. You might check with the borough re: the current status of the ordinance and if bakpakr was not successful or gave up, you could follow some of the suggestions given him or her.
> 
> Wayne


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## Marcus (Oct 8, 2015)

Any luck tracking down progress in Carlisle? I've just moved to town and would like to take up the reigns.


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## BrazilBuzz (May 20, 2015)

With my job I just haven't had time to pursue it. Let me know what you find out if you move forward with this. I have five hives in Shippensburg (rural area), would love to have one here.



Marcus said:


> Any luck tracking down progress in Carlisle? I've just moved to town and would like to take up the reigns.


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## Marcus (Oct 8, 2015)

BrazilBuzz said:


> With my job I just haven't had time to pursue it. Let me know what you find out if you move forward with this. I have five hives in Shippensburg (rural area), would love to have one here.


Will do.


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## BrazilBuzz (May 20, 2015)

Did you find anything out yet Marcus?


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## Marcus (Oct 8, 2015)

BrazilBuzz said:


> Did you find anything out yet Marcus?


Yes, I spoke to Bruce Koziar, Carlisle's Planning/Zoning/Codes Manager and Zoning Officer/Building Code Official/Chief Code Enforcement Officer (long title). While he mentioned the earlier mentioned zoning ordinance that prevents bees (not so sure it really does), he said we'd be OK to have a couple of hives on a sort of preliminary basis.

Bruce grew up on a farm with bees so is an ally.

I am not sure if this means that he is interested in allowing bees in Carlisle more generally, but it is a good first step.


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## BrazilBuzz (May 20, 2015)

That's sounds great. What part of the borough do you have or will have your bees in? I am located just off College Street Exit.






Marcus said:


> Yes, I spoke to Bruce Koziar, Carlisle's Planning/Zoning/Codes Manager and Zoning Officer/Building Code Official/Chief Code Enforcement Officer (long title). While he mentioned the earlier mentioned zoning ordinance that prevents bees (not so sure it really does), he said we'd be OK to have a couple of hives on a sort of preliminary basis.
> 
> Bruce grew up on a farm with bees so is an ally.
> 
> I am not sure if this means that he is interested in allowing bees in Carlisle more generally, but it is a good first step.


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## Marcus (Oct 8, 2015)

BrazilBuzz said:


> That's sounds great. What part of the borough do you have or will have your bees in? I am located just off College Street Exit.


Hey BrazilBuzz, if everything goes as planned we'll be putting the bees on Dickinson's main campus.

Not sure exactly where at this point - still need to get the lawyer's and space planning committee's approvals, but we're getting closer.


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## BrazilBuzz (May 20, 2015)

Wow sounds like things are really moving along. If there is a vote or public debate where people can speak. Please let me know if I am available I'd be more than happy to show up for something like that.







Marcus said:


> Hey BrazilBuzz, if everything goes as planned we'll be putting the bees on Dickinson's main campus.
> 
> Not sure exactly where at this point - still need to get the lawyer's and space planning committee's approvals, but we're getting closer.


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## BrazilBuzz (May 20, 2015)

Marcus,

Have you considered a flat roof that is not being used for anything? I am wondering if such a roof exists on one of the bigger buildings on campus? I know in the city bees are often kept on flat roof portions. Just a thought for you as you continue to go through this. Don't envy you having to deal with lawyers and such. Thanks for keeping me in the loop.


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## BrazilBuzz (May 20, 2015)

Hi Marcus,

Been awhile since I checked in with you. Was there any progress on the borough allowing bees?


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## frustrateddrone (Jan 31, 2015)

Keep it on the down low....... What people can't see is only what you see and tell. Keep it to yourself. Nothing prevents you from bee keeping that you've shown.


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