# Got the bee put away



## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

So, Ian, tell us about your wintering procedures. You winter in big sheds? In doubles? Is it kept dark? Do you control the temp in any way? How are they spaced? How about ventilation? How early do you bring them out?
Sheri, being nosy...er...interested


----------



## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

Yeah! Isn't that a nice feeling!

Hubby finished wrapping on the 14th of november. He still has to put bales around the yards though


----------



## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

Sounds like migratory beekeeping, the smart way.


----------



## Allen Martens (Jan 13, 2007)

You guy have much more faith in your ability to beat old man winter than I do. I was in by Oct 28. I remember too many early November snow storms.

I did miss a couple of good cleansing flight day in November this year.


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

I hear you allen, many beekeepers did as you.
yes it was nice to see the bees fly in that fair weather,
but as you mention, its hard to move bees in a foot of snow, at -15degree weather 

The only reason I hadnt moved my hives in earlier is because I was too busy with the rest of the farm work, otherwise I would of had them in when you put them away.
I was certain we would have entered into winter before halloween!


----------



## doc25 (Mar 9, 2007)

Weather changed out here today!


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

we got about a foot here last night and through out the day, nice gentle heavey wet snow.


----------



## jesuslives31548 (May 10, 2008)

Snow? Keeping Bees in a Building?............... guess I never knew how blessed I was to live in the South. But I guess you guys have never had to load and move bees due to a Hurricane, Guess we all have a problem of some type. But very interesting, Im going to research the Technique a little more. Hope all works out well for you.


----------



## Allen Martens (Jan 13, 2007)

Ian said:


> I was certain we would have entered into winter before halloween!


With the cold temperatures in October, I would have put money on that. November was a nice surprise.


----------



## Allen Martens (Jan 13, 2007)

jesuslives31548 said:


> Snow? Keeping Bees in a Building?


If the bees winter well, being able to basically forget about them for 5 months is not necessarily a bad thing. But, if wintering goes badly and hives are dying 2 or 3 months in, its a very long winter. Feels very helpless.


----------



## jesuslives31548 (May 10, 2008)

very interesting to read about. I have read in the past few years about the concept but never really seen pictures or videos on the process. You keep them stacked in some type of building? What tempature does the building maintain? How do you keep the bees in the hive? It it totally dark? What % do you loss on average or per hive? Sorry about all the questions but hate not knowing things....


----------



## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

I asked too, but it must be a secret:shhhh:
Sheri


----------



## beedeetee (Nov 27, 2004)

You can go to Ian's web site:

http://www.stepplerfarms.com/stepplerhoneywintershed.html

and see the pics. He has posted on all of this in the last couple of months.


----------



## Allen Martens (Jan 13, 2007)

Ian has a nice writeup on his website. I run my winter temperature a little warmer than he does. I try to keep my winter temperatures at about 5-6 C.

Winter in Manitoba is consistently cold so maintain proper temperatures during winter is not a problem. Spring brings us the most headaches. If temperature warm too much before we can get into spring yards the wintering room can warm up too much as well. Bees well start crawling and bee loses escalate. However, dumping snow into the wintering room cools it down nicely.

I have singles so I don't need as much room as Ian. I winter my hives in my hot room and extracting room. To give you an idea about space required--my hot room is 21 by 36 feet and I have about 550+ hive in that room. Plus, I still have 8 feet of room between the hives and the ceiling--my little skid steer won't reach higher. Of course, the stacks start getting to tippy as well.


----------



## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

i might like to try wintering in a building--someday--for now, we winter outdoors. The cost of wintering outdoors can get expensive, especially if the mice damage the wraps and one has to replace them. Since last winter was so cold we added 6" of the pink insulatio to the lid to keep the heat in. With this fall bein so warm, might of just shot ourselves in the foot cause the bees might not be in a tight enough cluster, and be out of food by January or early February. And if it is real cold then, wont be able to add any food or check on them. Could be an interesting spring...:scratch:

Edit, I am a few hours north of Ian and we just started getting a light dusting of snow this evening. That Alberta Clipper seemed to have changed course when it hit the mountains.


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

>>I asked too, but it must be a secret

Ha, sorry Sheri, missed your post! Somehow,
I would like to elaborate late when I get a chance,

The wintering set up our farm has set up kind of looks a bit ragged, but it works well.
I dont have my hives set up of good enough pallets to handle the hives this way, but it has gotten me by and works for now. This winter I am building a pile of migratory pallets to make handling and stacking a lot more efficient. 

I guess you can look at my operation as being a work in progress. Started with bees in 98 with nothing, built up to 600 wintering right now.


----------



## Tuttle (Jul 4, 2009)

High: 74° 
Low: 44°

That's our tempatures for today, bees fly pretty much year around here didn't realize how lucky we were with not having to deal with snow and cold tempatures and bees not being able to take feed.


----------



## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Basically guys keep the temperatures at 4-5 celcius. They bring in air from outdoors to vent the building, fans on the ceiling to circulate air and buildings are kept dark.

Surprisingly beehives generate 7-10 watts per hour, times 600 hives that's 6000 watts. So mostly buildings need to be vented and cooled not heated even though most folks reading this would ask "So why do you live here?" reason being it can get awfully cold on the canadian prairies. I think that on exceptionally cold temperatures , kinda -35 F and colder throw a howling north wind then guys turn the heat on in the building.

It's not all bad, those guys easily get 150 pounds a hive and the very good operators can get 250. Not too many average 250, but the best beekeepers in a pretty good area can.

Jean-Marc


----------



## doc25 (Mar 9, 2007)

Now that you told her the secret do we have to kill her?


----------



## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

doc25 said:


> Now that you told her the secret do we have to kill her?


Ha, you better bring something bigger than you can carry, Been chase out of the bee yard more than once by Sheri for moving to slow.


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

>>You winter in big sheds? 

I have mine in a 30 by 40, wintering doubles, max capacity 650-700 ,

>>In doubles?

Most do in singles, due to its efficiency, but my management demands lead me to doubles. I could winter up to 1000 easy in the same space I have my 600. 

>>Is it kept dark? 

has to be kept absolutely dark, otherwise they fly out of the hive. As the winter grows late, the bees will leave the boxes a the slightest sight of light. 
As I move them in, I usually dont close the door between trips as long as the temp is cold enough, the bees are settled enough to stay put in the hive. 

>> Do you control the temp in any way? 

Yes, very important to keep it from rising. They will leave the hives when the temps rise above t 10-15 degrees C. It starts to get real hard to keep the temps down in the shed as spring arrives, and constant baby sitting, all could be lost by the fans giving out.

>>How are they spaced? 

tight,

>>How about ventilation?

the fan runs at a constant low speed to keep the continual CO2 and moisture at reasonable levels. as the temp rises, the fans increase in speed, exchanging more air. I have 2 fans, one that kicks into high speed when the temp rises above 10 degrees. It also calms my nerves, knowing I have a back up fan if one stops or fails. 

>> How early do you bring them out?

late enough that the chances of a cold snap will not happen, but within a good forcast of a week of fight weather. It can really be touch and go in the spring. Usually end of April, but many leave them in til May.

I have been wintering them inside for 5 years now, 2 years fully inside.
there are many opinions of wintering inside, but if you ask me, its the better of the two ways to winter bees.

I hate wrapping hives,

I like taking about this stuff, so dont hesitate to ask


----------



## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

Doc, LOL

Aw, Keith, I wasn't _chasing_ you, I was trying to _keep up_!!:doh:
And I _always_ hold my hive tool that way.

Ian, I was just wondering how you 'northerners' did it. We used to winter about 400 singles in our hot room before we started shipping everything to California. Did it similar to you, but we had to have them out sometime in March or it got too warm. We had redundant ventilation and cooling because we were sometimes down with the bees in Texas and you sure do worry seeing a Feb thaw. We also had someone come in every day to check the thermostats.
I looked at your pics and your aisles are maybe just a little wider than ours. We had to shimmy in sideways to get down to the end of the rows to sweep.

Do you have trouble with drifting when you bring them out? That was about the only downside we saw, solved it by bringing only 50 or so out at a time and putting them in different parts of the holding yard.
Sheri


----------



## doc25 (Mar 9, 2007)

I'm a new beek so can only offer humour. The book Beekeeping in Western Canada deals with this if you're interested and seems oriented for the commercial beek.


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

>>We used to winter about 400 singles in our hot room before we started shipping everything to California. Did it similar to you, but we had to have them out sometime in March or it got too warm

Yup, here its end of march usually,

>>I looked at your pics and your aisles are maybe just a little wider than ours. We had to shimmy in sideways to get down to the end of the rows to sweep.

I have arranged mine wider this winter, wide enough to sweep a push broom through,
makes life alot easier

>>Do you have trouble with drifting when you bring them out? That was about the only downside we saw, solved it by bringing only 50 or so out at a time and putting them in different parts of the holding yard.

yes, but as you say, I spread them out.
I set them out in yards of 80, grouped in two or three bunches
All the set out work is done at night, when the bees will not flyout.
It makes for some long nights

Last spring, the bees were in longer than usual, and they were getting restless.
on the warm forcast of 2-3 days, I took out all the hives, 650 or so, so they could take full advantage of the 2 or three day flight weather. Took me til day light but well worth the effort


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

-35 degrees last night, 
I set my heater fan to come on at 2 degrees
the temp in the wintering shed didnt go lower than 4 degrees


----------



## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

Brrr, that is cold. We will get down to maybe -5 tonight and I won't feel sorry for myself any more.
When we wintered in the room we had our bees packed in fairly tight and we never worried about heat. We always had to cool if anything. We had a trap door that opened into the unheated barn attic above the bees when they got really warm, as a fail safe, and we used it more than once. Amazing the heat they give off.
Sheri


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

>>We had a trap door that opened into the unheated barn attic above the bees when they got really warm, as a fail safe

interesting idea, 

I went into the shed last night, there hasnt been much drop on the floor. I am assuming alot of the summer bees would of vacated during the november flight weather we had. I usually see more dead bees on the floor by this time of year.
One thing I noticed, as I walk down the rows, I can hear the hives clearly.
Either there are alot of bees inthe hives this winter or they are unsettled for some reason. They stir a bit when I walk by, probably smell the CO2 from my breath. Alot of bees hanging over the bottom frames of my doubles. Looks good to me.


----------



## rainesridgefarm (Sep 4, 2001)

I love the shed. Very nice setup. What is your survival rate with this if all goes well?


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

I should post pictures from this year. Things are put away a little neater,
I like to see a 10-15% winter loss, but varroa increases the losses regardless if they winter inside or out. Varroa is probably my largest challenge with beekeeping right now. Some beekeepers tell me wintering inside increases survival, others will tell me wintering them outdoors increase survival. I think it all depends on the year. Cold winter, more loss outside, long winter, more loss inside.


----------



## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

Ian: Where do all those pretty Charolais go when its -35 outside. Guess they go inside too. But I'm a southern boy and we just don't understand cows in buildings.


----------



## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

stay outside all winter, atleast ours do and we live 2-4 hours north of Ian


----------



## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

Dang! Those Canadian cows are tough! I felt sorry for the cows around here today and it was 32F with a strong wind blowing. Guess that would make your cows sweat. At least the bees know how to cluster.


----------



## Skinner Apiaries (Sep 1, 2009)

Hmm do cows cluster?


----------



## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

as long as the cows have some kind of shelter with good bedding and good hay with decent protien and a decent BCS then the cows will generate their own heat. 
In weather like this we keep hay infront of them and good bedding in the bush for them to get a good night's rest. They also seem to bed down together and feed off each other's heat. So in some way cows do cluster a bit...sort of


----------



## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

honeyshack said:


> in some way cows do cluster


I watched a line of half a dozen calves that were eating out of a feed trough once. They were out in a blizzard with about a 30mph wind and below zero temps. The calf that was most exposed to the wind would stand there at that end of the trough for only about 5 minutes then back out and move to the other end of the trough, the more protected end, pushing the entire line down to take it's place. The newly exposed calf would do it's 5 minutes of hard time and then relocate to the warm end. This went on like clockwork the entire time I watched them, probably 30-40 minutes. So, cows do not only cluster like bees they also take their turn on the outside of the cluster. 
Sheri


----------



## Skinner Apiaries (Sep 1, 2009)

lol! that's neat!


----------



## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

penguins cluster!...."March of the Penguins"


----------



## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

I have been trying to figure out just what my calves or honeyshack's penguins have to do with Ian putting his bees away. I suppose when you think about it, wintering strategies of many animals have to do with sharing/creating heat by huddling close together. In this respect wintering in a small room would be a very beneficial thing for honeybees. In nature, many colonies wintering together would equate to a shortage of forage come spring but with artificial feed and our moving them to pasture, that isn't a concern. 
There.
Sheri


----------



## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

The cows pocess of rumination which gives off heat is one method of keeping warm.
Like other posters mentioned, keep the feed in their proximity and out of the chill factor.
Ernie


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Ha!


----------

