# IPM crisco



## Guest (Sep 3, 2003)

Yes, I've used it before. It worked great.

I've also talked to two different people about T-mites and they both say that if you don't treat you will lose some of your hives but not all, and that the T-mite problem can easily overcome by selective breeding.

I haven't tried this, but thought I'd put my 2 cents worth in. It sounds creditable, because you can see T-mites in one or two hives, but the rest will be fine. 

Why don't you use the grease patties if you have to and requeen with/from a hive that you haven't had any T-mite problems with.

BB


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## xen (Jun 12, 2003)

thanks I don't have a t-mite problem just using preventative measures without all the toxic stuff although I was told to use Apistan every year no matter what mites or no mites


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I used them until I started using the FGMO fog. They seemed to work. Since I can't see the tracheal mites, it's hard to say.


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## WineMan (May 16, 2003)

Very effective against T-mites. If you are in a small hive beetle area, make sure that you use a small amount that the bees quickly clean up. the beetles find the patties very attractive.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

In 1999, 2000, and 2001 I had a patty on all year long. And in those years I did not lose one hive, period! Then for some unknown reason (Laziness?) I got away from this and now this past year I had alot of winter kill. V-mites were not the sole culprit. I would like to think it was the harsh winter, but think T-mites had alot to do with it.

I wont argue (I never do....) the pro/con FGMO vs other oil line, but I am a big believer that OIL in some manner, whether essentials, FGMO, or crisco patties, make a huge difference in hive survival. I think T-mites kill alot and V-mites are blamed. V-mites kill more but T-mites are not given enough respect. I guess its the "I can't see them" response. 
No matter what else I use, I believe in keeping a crisco patty on at all times. I have also tried other shortening brands and think "Crisco" mixes and maintains the best.


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

Greetings . . .

Please tell us (NewBEEs) how to use grease patties.
<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI> How often do add new patty?
<LI> How do you replace them in (cold) winter?
<LI> Plain or w/ wintergreen?
<LI> Recipes
[/list]

thanx
Dave W


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## ChellesBees (Apr 1, 2003)

How do you keep them from getting all over and making a mess?


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## BillKP71 (Feb 3, 2003)

Sorry to ask another novice question. I did do a search for this but had no luck. Could some kind soul please provide the recommended sugar/Crisco ratio for grease patties?

Thanks!
Bill


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## clintonbemrose (Oct 23, 2001)

my way to make patties is about 1/2 of a 3lb. can of Crisco and 1/2 of 5lb. bag of sugar 1/4 cup honey 2 tablespoons wintergreen oil 1 teaspoon of tea tree oil. mix and put on top of frames I use about 1/4 cup on a hive.
Place on top bars of hive with wax paper under it
Clint

------------------
Clinton Bemrose
just South of Lansing Michigan


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## dp (Jun 30, 2003)

This is the way that beekeepers around here make the patties. Get a 1lb. container of Crisco all-vegetable shortening. Get 3 boxes of Dixie Crystal confectioners sugar.(10X Powered) Each box will be a 1lb box. Mix the 3 boxes of sugar with the 1lb. container of shortening. Mix throughly(usually by hand). This should make about 12 patties.


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## pegwillen (Jun 7, 2003)

I use a pastry blender to mix the shortening and sugar...less mess in your hands.


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## Daisy (Jul 24, 2003)

Might as well add to this string what I use.

I fill a bowl with confectioners sugar and add just enough olive oil to make a real stiff medium. Then I add a few drops of teatree or pennyroyal and mix it in real well. I only treat five hives. I mix a good while to make it smooth. The bees eat on it continuously and I have to replace it at least once a month. Depends on the size of your colony I suppose.

Now, I've had problems in my hives this year. The destructor bugs almost did them in. And when I first began to use this intervention, the bees that were being tossed out of the hives were small, deformed, slivers for wings, washed out gray color. 

As of this date, there are still some bees being tossed out of the hive that can't fly, But, they don't have near the degree of deformaties as those earlier this season (color size shapes and wing deformaties) which means to me that treating with oils has made a big difference in that at least. If it affects in other ways negatively that I'm not aware of, then it will show itself in one way or other later on I'm sure. 

I'm going to stick with the old combs, and allow the generations of bees get themselves smaller as the comb cell sizes get smaller. I hope that in the time it takes to regress two hives starting next spring, the others will have regressed along with them, on their own. I hope.


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## WineMan (May 16, 2003)

If you really want them to go after it, go with Clinton's recipe or something close. The honey makes the difference.


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## Louise (Aug 18, 2003)

I was shown to make the patties (1 part crisco: 2 parts sugar) and then to use an old ice-cream scoop - the one with the clicky thing that scrapes the bottem of the scoop. Then just plunk the scoop on top of the frames.


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## Louise (Aug 18, 2003)

I use wintergreen too.


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

>If you really want them to go after it, go with Clinton's recipe or something close. The honey makes the difference.


What about using Honey-B-Healthy instead of honey? Or my home made version of it?

------------------
Bullseye Bill
Smack dab in the middle of the country.


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## Branman (Aug 20, 2003)

I was searching the archives, but couldn't find it, what is your recipe for homemade honey-b-healthy?


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## margot (Jun 25, 2001)

I put the mixture between two sheets of wax paper, and roll it out like pie crust. (Chilling first helps too.) Then I peel off one sheet of paper, flip the patty onto the hive, and peel off the other sheet. I store extras in the freezer.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

When I was using them I made them with crisco, wintergreen and sugar. I pressed them between two sheets of wax paper and removed the top sheet when I put them in, leaving the bottom sheet on. The bees will dispose of the paper anyway and that way it didn't fall down between the bars.


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## ikeepbees (Mar 8, 2003)

"How do you keep them from getting all over and making a mess?"

I don't worry about the mess, ChellesBees, I just mix mine up in a 5 gallon bucket, and use a big spoon or scoop to put some on the top bars. I even crumble the mixture a little before moving on to the next hive. Having it broken up does create somewhat of a mess, but that's a good thing. You want the bees to contact this stuff, and having it broken up provides more surface area, therefore more bees contacting more oil. It also seems that it stimulates the bees to work on cleaning it out better than just one solid patty. At any rate, it has worked well for me.

------------------
Rob Koss


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>If you're not using them, what are you using now? 

Since I started using the FGMO I haven't bothered. The FGMO fog is less labor and less messy.


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## Louise (Aug 18, 2003)

Hey, Dave W just did a great job summarizing lots of different grease patty recipes (under Diseases & Pests). Here is the link:
http://www.beesource.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/000121.html


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## Louise (Aug 18, 2003)

Hey, Dave W just did a great job summarizing lots of different grease patty recipes (under Diseases & Pests). Here is the link:
http://www.beesource.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/000121.html


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## Louise (Aug 18, 2003)

whoops! Really it deserved to be said twice







.


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## margot (Jun 25, 2001)

Bjorn, I'd also appreciate your recipe for home made Honey-B-Healthy. Could you post it for us?


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Margot, 

I have used terra-patties, pollen substitute, my own crisco patties, FGMO (First time I've admitted to that), fumildil-B, Certan, Apistan, B-pro patties, para-moth, terramyacin mixed with my own sugar, and some I'm sure I missed. To tell the truth I do not even know what Honey B healthy is. Unless it falls into one of the other catagories of bee suppliments, I can't ever remember mentioning it before.

I'm thinking maybe margot has me confused with another???? And what is Honey B healthy anyways? I scanned Dadant and Mann lake magazine and didn't see it. My other catalogs are at the office. I know I seen it advertised but not sure which mag offers it. And is there a home-made version?


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## Russ (Sep 9, 2001)

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/bees/ 

There has been a discussion on the above site about a home made reciept for Honey B Heal RE: Anybody using Honey B Healthy?
Posted by: hunter_tx 7bTx (My Page) on Wed, Aug 6, 03 at 12:31

I use a substitute that I mix myself for all new hives while they are building new comb, and as a Spring and Fall feeding. MsHunter.

I have the reciept, let me know if you can't find it and I will email it to you. Dale


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

HBH is a mixture of Lemongrass oil, Peppermint oil and Lecithin. It is available from John Seets, who has posted in the PermaComb thread many times or from www.bee-commerce.com 

It is a very good attractant for feed. Meaning the bees find it and take it. There is a study you can read on www.bee-commerce.com that was done on the health benefits to the bees. Basicly the same as is attributed to wintergreen, pepermint and other essential oils. That it boosts the immune system and interferes with the mites reproducing to some extent.

In light syrup it makes a nice calming spray. In an old box it makes a nice swarm lure.

You can probably make a lot of it yourself cheaply. Both peppermint oil and lemongrass oil are cheaper than say wintergreen oil. and they are certainly cheaper than the HBH. But the HBH is a very nice product for those wanting to use some essential oils in the hive.


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## Daisy (Jul 24, 2003)

I use wintergreen and lemongrass in mine. 

I ordered several different oils from glorybee and use them in different methods. Feed, spray, oil patties. And mixed in oil or honey. 

So far so good.


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## Daisy (Jul 24, 2003)

It's not the real deal, but just what I came up with that contains the same effective ingredients. I use it as a Spring and Fall feeding with good results so far.

Recipe:
5 cups water
2 1/2 pounds of sugar
1/8- 1/4 tsp of lecithin granules dissolved in almost boiling water (to make the total of above water requirements)- you'll have to strain the lecithin after dissolving to remove what's left of the solid particles.
15 drops each of spearmint and lemon grass oils

The lecithin is to help emulsify the oils in the sugar water mixture. I also add a few drops of minerals that are marketed for birds for a little added mineral content.
Mrs H


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## Daisy (Jul 24, 2003)

Mike, the peppermint is more expensive then wintergreen from the glorybee site.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Personally I like the wintergreen. I have no scientific reasons except I've been using it longer and it seemed to work and I prefer the taste of wintergreen to peppermint or spearmint myself.









Also, I already have a large bottle of the wintergreen that I was already using before I heard of HBH.


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## margot (Jun 25, 2001)

Bjorn, please excuse my confusion; I meant to ask Bullseye Bill, who had said that he used his own recipe for HBH.
Has anyone noticed how many of the forum contributers have names that begin with B? Hmm.. 
I'd better go out to protect my garden. Possible frost predicted tonight!


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

Greetings . . .

To find recipes for Honey-B-Healthy, try doing a search.

Here are two old post. One has the same recipe and lots of same wording as Daisy's.
http://www.beesource.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/000024.html 
http://www.beesource.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000373.html 

Dave W


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

I got this recepie off this board about a year ago, and can not take credit for it, it reads;

5 cups H2O
2 1/2 cups sugar
15 drops spearmint oil
15 drops lemongrass oil
1/8 to 1/4 lecithin granules

I have no idea what unit of measure the lecithin is supposed to be, so I split the difference and use 1/4 tablespoon.

How odd that it is exactly the same as Dasie's?

Gramps always said, "If some is good, more is better..."

I deviate from this recepie and do as follows;

Boil 2 1/2 cups of water, add 1/4 tablespoon of lecithin GRANUALS, stir for a LONG time until they disolve.
Add 2 1/2 cups sugar and disolve, let cool.
Add 25 drops each of lemongrass, wintergreen and spearmint. I don't add the oils until the temperature of the solution cools so as not to evaporate any of the oils off the solution.

Thanks to Dasie, next time I will strain the lecithin globuletts out before I add the oils. The lecithin did not globulate right away for me and became a nusience later.

I add two tablespoons of this mixture per gallon of 1:1 syrup. It is a tremendious magnet to the bees. If I give a young colony two gallons of feed, the next weekend it is always gone.

One word of caution, during a darth of flow be very careful with this feeding. It is such a strong attractant that you will promote robbing.

I reduce the entrances on small hives, and am careful not to splash the syrup on the outside of the hive box. You will notice that there are bees inspecting the outside of the feeders trying to find openings. Use a little uncommon sense, you won't have any problems.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

One of the B-Guys


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

>Sure you can have the recipe, I just didn't know if anyone would be interested. 
5 cups water
2 1/2 pounds of sugar
15 drops each of spearmint and lemongrass oils
1/8 teaspoon lecithin granules

You have to dissolve the granules in very hot (almost boiling) water and let it cool prior to incorporating the oils into the mixture. The lecithin is an emulsifier and helps disperse the oils in the water mixture. This is the standard recipe according to a website article I read about using essential oils, and these are the two oils used in the HBH. I use less of the oils than the recipe calls for since I am feeding fairly heavily at this time, but for a spring or fall treatment, I will follow these measurements. 


HERE IT IS!

It was posted Sep 24, 2002 by Dragonfly, Thanks Dave!



------------------
Bullseye Bill
Smack dab in the middle of the country.


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

MB wrote
>HBH is a mixture of Lemongrass oil, Peppermint oil and Lecithin. 

Strike the pepermint and insert spearmint, well, that is what's on the bottle...

Bill


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

Besides Sucrose, Water, Spearmint oil, Lemongrass oil, and Lecithin, the bottle also lists Sodium Lauryl Sulfate.

I suppose that the designer of Honey-B-Healthy also noticed that their bees liked to lick them also.

For questions and comments the phone number listed is 301.724.3529
Honey-B-Healthy
Cumberland Md. 21502

Bill


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Sodium Lauryl Sulfate: http://www.tomsofmaine.com/toms/ifs/sls.asp


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

o.k...., a foaming and lathering agent...

So, what's up with that? What possible use would inclusion of this ingredient be in a product for bees? Dasie? Are you the resident herbalist?

------------------
Bullseye Bill
Smack dab in the middle of the country.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I'm guessing since it's basically a soap that it was inteneded to help with the disolving of the oil in water. But everthing I've read on it only talks about it as a foaming agent.


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## Steve Hamilton (Sep 23, 2002)

Ignore

[This message has been edited by Steve Hamilton (edited September 10, 2003).]


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

Ah, a toiletrie for the bees to aid in their grooming...hummm

Bill


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## Louise (Aug 18, 2003)

WOW! Thanks for the link. I've heard the rumors about SLS and I specifically avoid it when buying soaps and shampoos (they say right on the label: does not contain sodium lauryl sulfate). I had no idea it was in toothpaste. I clearly also haven't done the adequate research to find out what the specific issues are and whether they are substantiated or not. 
Hmmmm. The things you learn in Beekeeping 101


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## Daisy (Jul 24, 2003)

Bill, This is my own observation, and I don't think Micheal recommends it, so I preface.

Just add salt! LOL

Bill, wasn't it you that said you add about an eighth of a teas of salt to three gallons of sugar water?

I added a little over a half teaspoon in their gallon of community drinking water a couple of weeks ago and it's been a virtual feeding frenzy for those bees at that water trough ever since. 

Now do what you want with this information, but between that and the fabric saturated with thyme and vapo rub combined, I've had so many mites fall the floor dead that I got freaked out and by last night I was seriously considering putting harsh commercial chemicals in my hives.

But thank Goodness, Billy Bob helped me last night through real time chat to have a better understanding about bees..

Anywho, my old old bee books say to give salt into their water. So I did.


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## Daisy (Jul 24, 2003)

One word of caution, during a darth of flow be very careful with this feeding. It is such a strong attractant that you will promote robbing.

I reduce the entrances on small hives, and am careful not to splash the syrup on the outside of the hive box. You will notice that there are bees inspecting the outside of the feeders trying to find openings. Use a little uncommon sense, you won't have any problems........

And Bill, I smear vapo rub around the seams where I see robber bees sniffing. LOL

Even around the boardman feeders at the seams where the jar is seated, and those bees are smart, they know what the jars contain so I cover the jars with cloth to conceal it.


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

>I've had so many mites fall the floor dead that I got freaked out and by last night I was seriously considering putting harsh commercial chemicals in my hives.


If we had no mites in our hives we would lose the hygenic trates that we are trying to breed into our bees. I think that we may actully need to have at least some because they are now part of the nature of things and will always be here. The bees are going to have to learn to deal with the mites. It is our job to help them adjust.

I am of the thinking that by the use of certain additives to the hives we can promote hygenic behaviour. Grease patties, oils on paper towles and in their feed, fgmo, oxalic acid, all should help the bees deal with the mites. We know that these methods will not completely remove the mites from the hives, except perhaps the oxalic acid, but even if the mites were all gone, their return is emminant.

However, if I was faced with an epidemic of mites, I would use the chemicles to get a quick knock down. I wouldn't even think twice about that. I have to protect and serve until they can take care of themselves.

------------------
Bullseye Bill
Smack dab in the middle of the country.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I've had so many mites fall the floor dead that I got freaked out and by last night I was seriously considering putting harsh commercial chemicals in my hives.

I would take that as a sign that what you are doing is working, not a sign that you need something else.

As to Sodium Lauryl Sulfate, I was merely trying to shed some light on what it is. I am not making any judgements. I have seen contradictory information on the subject and am not sure what to think.


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