# Too late for a trap-out?



## delber (Dec 26, 2010)

to quickly try to answer your questions. . . It's not too late for a trapout IMO. However I'd lean on local people to help you. Do you have any idea when your fall flow is there in Michigan? In Pa we have 2-3 months which is plenty of time. To do a trapout properly now may be the best time because you can allow them to rob out the cavity which is what you want to do at the end of the trapout. Getting the queen? Well that may work depending upon how you try to do it in as little as a few days to a week or so, or you may never get her. I'd do a search for Cleo Hogan's posts on the subject. I'd PM him and ask for his trapout instructions. They're great and VERY VERY helpful. He's also a great guy (I have never met him, but have talked via beesource) and very free to give info. He has some steps to seek to get the queen, but you really need to follow a few pointers that he mentions. One big point is don't start trapping them out until you get the queen and the thing that is necessicary is that the brood nest is close to the entrance. Let me know if you have a hard time tracking Cleo down. I do have his info and may be able to get it to you also, but I'd go to the horse's mouth and not a neighbor.


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## jsbyers (Dec 3, 2012)

Thank you. I know here in MI we still have Goldenrod coming so I was hoping their was more time. I have found Cleo Hogans info and will read it thoroughly. Thanks for the pointers.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

I started a trap out in late August last year. I made to 5 frame nucs from the bees that both wintered over just fine and both produced honey this year. The trap out did not get completed before winter set in and was completed as a cut out early this year.


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## jsbyers (Dec 3, 2012)

Do I have this right that you add a frame of eggs and brood to the box to attract the bees.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

If the wall hive has a lot of honey stores - which they may this time of year, then they might be able to outlast you. If they just moved in and are light then it's probably a great time to trap them out for the purpose of removing them from the wall. If what you are after is "free" bees, then it's pretty late for that. A swarm in July....


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## jsbyers (Dec 3, 2012)

The guy told me that they just moved in about a week ago. The guy is gonna exterminate them if I don't want them and I figured if I could at least get them to draw out some foundation since I am new that's worth something. They are a darker bee which interests me but I am seeing there is no guarantee I will get the queen anyway but still don't want to just exterminate them.


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## D Semple (Jun 18, 2010)

David's +1 for a trap out.


Cutout may be a better option for your circumstances.

Don


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## delber (Dec 26, 2010)

jsbyers said:


> The guy told me that they just moved in about a week ago. The guy is gonna exterminate them if I don't want them and I figured if I could at least get them to draw out some foundation since I am new that's worth something. They are a darker bee which interests me but I am seeing there is no guarantee I will get the queen anyway but still don't want to just exterminate them.


If he's going to exterminate them first off exterminators may not do it. I've found out in this area exterminators seek out beekeepers to help / handle honeybees. I've gotten several calls from people that called one and they said they don't deal with honeybees. 

On a second note. . . If they just moved in then I think now is a great time to try Cleo's method. Put a box over the entrance so that they have full access to their "location" in the house and into the box. Add a frame of open brood. Eggs / larva etc. to the box and in 24 hrs. come back and see if the queen is in the box. If she is then put a cone in the box to stop them from gong back into the cavity and you've got them. The remaining bees will come out once they realize that their queen isn't there. They also most likely won't have resources nor a desire to start a new queen because they're a new swarm. Be prepared to have a good ammt. of bees in your box when you put the open brood in there. If the queen comes out you may just bring the rest of them also.


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## Cub (Feb 14, 2013)

Is there any way to do a normal cutout? The trap out method can take several weeks, and the sooner you get them in a hive, the better. And, even in two weeks, they will have some comb built and can lay some eggs sooner if you can get to it and band it into frames. 

Note-This is my first year, and all 13 of my hives are from cutouts. The 2 trap outs I tried were not nearly as successful as the worst of the cutouts.


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## jsbyers (Dec 3, 2012)

I have never done a cutout and to be honest I am nervous about cutting into someone's wall. I thought a trap out might be easier but wish I knew someone I could work with to help so I could get my hands wet before trying it alone.


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## delber (Dec 26, 2010)

I just did a cut-out about a month ago with a swarm that was there for about 2 weeks. I filled about 4 or 5 frames with the comb, but it's very difficult to get the soft white comb to stay put. A cut-out w/o a vac in this situation may not be preferable. However I've done it and it's not all that difficult as long as you do your homework. A cut-out is definitely faster and could be better, but it could be more of a pain. What's the wall like that you'd be cutting into? I thought I remember brick or block or something. If that is the case then a cut-out isn't an option IMHO. I'd trap them out also. I just got a bee call today for a hive that may be in the block wall. I may be doing a trapout soon also?!? jsbyers is it possible for you to post some pictures? Inside and out would be helpful. Perhaps we could give you some pointers and more thoughts as to what may be best. A trap-out isn't a "slam dunk" if you know what I mean. It can go very well, but it can go poorly also. But honestly a cut-out can be the same. I did a cut-out (pre beevac) last year and the queen and the rest of the bees ran up under the roof that I wasn't able to get to them and I didn't have any beequick or anything like that. They swarmed 2-3 days later and I never got them. I did get an established hive from the brood that I cut out, but didn't have the "booming hive" that I was hoping for.


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## jsbyers (Dec 3, 2012)

It is up about 15 feet on the corner of the chimney and siding. There is a crack. It looks like they are possible going up into the attic which is a plaster ceiling on the inside. Not fun. Like I said I have never done a cut out but it doesn't seem feasible to do a cut out. He does want them dead or gone so he can seal it up so if it doesn't work I may just have to let him. I thought if I could trap them or some of them enough to build a new hive. Sounds like the queen coming out is hit or miss. Wouldn't she notice all the bees aren't coming back and come to investigate or are there enough nurse bees that she wouldn't notice?


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## D Semple (Jun 18, 2010)

How about posting up a few photos, so we could help you better?

Don


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

jsbyers said:


> I have never done a cutout and to be honest I am nervous about cutting into someone's wall. I thought a trap out might be easier but wish I knew someone I could work with to help so I could get my hands wet before trying it alone.


jsbyers...send me an [email protected] and i will send you a 12 page document on fundamentals of the trapout with photos of trapouts in progress.

cchoganjr


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## jsbyers (Dec 3, 2012)

Thanks Cleo I will do that. I couldn't find the info online.


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## delber (Dec 26, 2010)

jsbyers this may not be something you'd want to try to tackle as a first time. Pictures would be helpful, but from the brief description getting a box close enough to where the hive is may be very difficult. If you don't get the box close enough to the main hive then you won't be able to get the queen out with a frame of open brood. This will hopefully at least be a learning experience for you and something you can research up more on and perhaps get the next one?!? 

Cleo this is what I was talking about earlier. I am greatful for your help for others!!! You and others on this site make this site what it is and I for one appreciate it very much!!!


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## jsbyers (Dec 3, 2012)

The pdf Cleo sent was very helpful. I will definitely work on buying or making a box. I think if I can rig something up to get the box up there I can do it. 

I too love beesource. I have learned a lot. Thanks to the experienced ones for sharing their knowledge and experience.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

jsbyers. Make your own. There is nothing magic about the trap. Just need some way to attach the trap to the tree, and get the connection as close as possible. You can use two pieces of pipe, two pieces of hose, build it from wood,...... For the funnel you can make one from screen wire, attach it over the end of the tunnel, pipe, hose, whatever. You can buy a funnel at Walmart, Dollar Stores, Hardware stores, cut it down to size, as a last resort you can order the funnel from Dadant, Better Bee, Kelly's. It is called a conical bee escape, costs about $1.25 each. I would make my own, but, then I am cheap.

cchoganjr


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## jsbyers (Dec 3, 2012)

I am gonna make my own. Kelley's is about $100 after shipping. Never thought about that with just using a funnel from Walmart. Another bee project. I love it.


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## delber (Dec 26, 2010)

the cool thing is Cleo actually gave Kelly's the design for them to make. I'd make my own also.


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## rwlaw (May 4, 2009)

Two things, if that hive's only been there for a week, that means it's a late july swarm? See if you can judge the size of the hive before you invest a lot of time into ladder work. Also if you don't have a laying queen in another two weeks that hive's gonna be a goner anyway. Just finished a trapout that I started in mid may and I didn't even try to get the queen, just using a beevac to get the population down cause the guy wanted them gone.


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## jsbyers (Dec 3, 2012)

Being new this year I thought it would be fun to try to do a trap out but also since I have a lot of frames with foundation they might be able to draw some frames for me for next year. Anyway we'll see what happens when it is all said and done.


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