# Costco Honey



## throrope

No wonder they're successful.

This is gonna take some of the snobby out of my harvest.


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## jim lyon

I have a cousin that is an executive for a large corporation that sells product to Costco. He says they are the absolute best customer they have to do business with. They are very picky about product quality and want a high quality product that meets their specs. They usually want to sell just one unique product designed specifically for them and you can lose your account with them by not responding quickly and appropriately to any consumer complaints. Then, he said, there is Wal Mart and you don't even want to know what they are like to try to do business with.


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## Ozarks Honey Company

Hats off Costco! Nice job!!!

I think it is terrible how much honey we import from out side this country.


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## deknow

...retail at less than $3/lb. That is good for American honey producers how?

Deknow


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## Daniel Y

DeKnow. Thousands upon thousands of customers buying real honey and becoming familiar with what it is and how it tastes, at least to some degree. Those thousands sharing it with countless thousands of others. Creating a demand that Costco alone cannot fill. With increased demand comes increased prices. Either that or keep more hives produce more honey and cut your costs in doing so. As prices rise it becomes profitable for more people to keep bees. this increases supply lower prices. The best bet is for the honey producer to be using their advantage to produce it cheaply. they can then undercut those that would step in at higher prices. IT is how the self regulating system of free enterprise works. IF $3 honey is not good enough. sell bees. let the next guy produce honey.


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## deknow

...did you read the article? What do you think they claimed about their honey?

Do you think they claimed that their honey is from the U.S.? They did not...they named two suppliers that are in the U.S., they claimed that it is at least 51% clover honey, and they claimed it was blended (how else can you maintain a flavor profile).

Do you think they claimed that their honey is not filtered to the extent that most (or all) of the pollen in not removed? They did not....instead, they cited the USDA's grading standard for Grade A filtered honey:
"The USDA Grading Standards define filtered U.S. Grade A Honey as “honey of any type that has been filtered to
the extent that all or most of the fine particles, pollen grains, air bubbles, or other materials
normally found in suspension, have been removed." ....so how is their honey any better than what was reported a few months ago?

...and don't be fooled by the above, there is nothing about "U.S. Grade A" that implies that it is produced in the U.S. (in whole or in part).

Also note that this whole piece is designed to address the concerns about the lack of pollen in store-bought honey (the report, which was big in the media, specifically talked about Costco...and about the fact that most of the pollen is strained out of the honey)....which they are agreeing with in this piece.

Real honey is not a blended product. Real honey is not filtered to the point that most or all of the pollen is removed. Such blended and processed products do not build a market for real honey. Beekeepers supporting this propaganda campaign does nothing but support the "race to the bottom"....who is willing to call their product "pure honey" and sell it for the lowest price at the biggest store. Are we assured of something of higher quality than the walmart brand honey? it also claims "grade a", "all natural" and "product of the U.S." (I expect that means it was bottled in the U.S.).

You do understand that this is Costco's way of trying to sell "store bought" honey as the equivelant of "beekeeper honey". You do understand that they are not the same thing, don't you?

deknow


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## throrope

deknow - Thanks for closely reading the fine print.

Looking closer, the only thing you can hang your hat on is that the product is "100-percent-pure United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) Grade A Clover Honey." Doesn't say where they harvested. Since "Made in USA" sounds so good, I doubt their marketing department would pass up that opportunity.

Also, filter specs list mesh or particle size. "Ultra-filtration" means nothing.

I'm back to my snobby self.


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## Island Apiaries

I have to agree with deknow. This seems more like a public relations feel good piece to me. Costco was directly mentioned in the ultra filtration report and I think this ad was damage control. The $3/pound price is exceptionally low even by American market standards.
While the sentiment of the piece is great, I still wonder how much of it would stand up to real scrutiny.


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## throrope

I think this is the article and its a good one.

http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2011/11/tests-show-most-store-honey-isnt-honey/#.UD-uvW-feYk

After a complete read, I came away with as long as we don't have an enforceable standard, the only way you can be sure about the honey is seeing the bees foraged it.

One reality is public perception of honey and yes the crystal clear stuff looks appealing. *Everyone's buys on price and no one remembers who was third in Le Tour de France. I'm weary of working to avoid being duped.

I'm feeling even better about spending more on my hives than I'll spend in the store. 

Now I gotta find a farmer in VT to direct buy my maple syrup.


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## Birds&Bees

Costco marks up its products by 15% unlike most other retailers who mark up 30%, they have a huge market share and sell in large quantities not 12 oz sample size. If packers are buying US honey @ $195/lb and costco is retailing it for $3, obviously volume is their business, and volume is good for the beekeepers who want to produce and sell a lot of honey. I can't sell my honey at the farm gate, too much honey for too few people, its needs to go to the cities where the population is and stores like Costco want to sell people large quantities of product, how can that be bad?


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## Ozarks Honey Company

Deknow, I second the props for reading the article for content as well. I was duped by the fancy talk and innuendos that they were selling 100% US Honey and that it was not ultrafiltered/strained. You are correct, they never mention either. Geez, I feel so dirty now. I am in total agreement now that this "feel good" article is completely meant as damage control.

Also, I thought the same as you that $3/lb was extremely cheap. 

However, I have not ever let the price of honey in the store bother me much. Around here in the store $5/lb seems to be the general average. Other beeks on average ask $5/lb (some much less). Personally, I sell mine for $7 and have em lining out the door and coming back for more. I think the price is more about how you market it than what every one else sells theirs for. I educate my customers on what they are buying, who they are getting it from and what it really means to know your beekeeper. The conversation usually takes me less than 5 minutes to convince someone that my product is superior to any store bought honey.


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## jim lyon

Yeah that darn Dean is always reading everything instead of just looking at the pictures and the headlines. I do, however, stand by my comments about the general integrity of Costco and their business model. they are a unique retailer with a wholly different customer first perspective. My source is one of the brightest and most astute people I have ever known. What exactly goes on with their honey marketing program, though, I haven't a clue. With bulk raw honey prices sitting around $2.00 per pound there dosent seem to be much of a profit margin to work with.


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## sqkcrk

Ozarks Honey Company said:


> Hats off Costco! Nice job!!!
> 
> I think it is terrible how much honey we import from out side this country.


Demand outpaces domestic supply by 100% (I think, probably wrongly), so what do you expect? What should grocers do? "Sorry, I can't sell you what you want."? Soon out of business. An ever growing portion of our food is imported. It the way things are.


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## Daniel Y

Seems to me Costco has attempted to locate the most reputable supplier they can that can also meet there volume requirement. These other issue about source. filtration etc. lies with the USDA, True Source and Kirkland. Costco is not a honey producer or processor. Never will be. The quality of the product does not lie with the retailer.


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## sqkcrk

Ozarks Honey Company said:


> Also, I thought the same as you that $3/lb was extremely cheap.


It is not. I see this price in small town IGAs around here. Grocery Stores sell products at below cost sometimes. I believe it's call a Lost Leader? Or Loss Leader? How do you suppose eggs and milk can be sold so cheaply? Shelf price has nothing to do w/ production cost. The amount of money paid to grain growers from which bread is made is similar to the cost of the plastic bag that bread is inside of.

We beekeeper/honey sellers are used to selling one item, stores sell thousands.


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## sqkcrk

jim lyon said:


> With bulk raw honey prices sitting around $2.00 per pound there dosent seem to be much of a profit margin to work with.


Jim, we won't know until 12 months from now whether this $2.00 per pound price is real or not. It maybe just wishful thinking, brought about by anecdotal reports. I know a guy here in NY who bought a tractor trailer load of clover from the West at $1.85/lb delivered. So, w/ the cost of transportation that could be $1.80 honey.


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## beemandan

From my read of the article, Costco has made an effort to use US suppliers. I'd bet their jars don't list any import countries. It would appear that they process their honey the same as SueBee and other national packers have for years. The whole idea and article on Costco's side appear to be damage/image control. 
I don't see that it has any impact on the large honey producers who wholesale their production. I also don't see that it causes us little guys any harm as our customers already know they don't want over heated/filtered grocery store honey....regardless of price.


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## JRG13

There's a documentary on Costco. It's quite informative of why they use the business model they do and it makes a lot of sense. Also, quality, or more integerity of their products is very important to them as they want to sell a quality product all the time.


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## ryan

It does look like the Costco honey will have both domestic and imported honey in the bottle. That's unfortunate, but my cart seems to have a bunch of stuff from other countries. Shirts, food, auto parts.....my phone and the computer I'm typing on right now. If they import honey honestly we will all be fine. It's the cheaters that really wreck it for domestic beekeepers. Good catch!!

Honey that is blended with other honey does remain "real honey". I prefer variation in my honey flavor, but I understand the masses tolerate blending of flavors. Many wines, whisky, and many other flavors that are blended sell very well. The box of blended wine in my fridge suits me just fine. I understand it is nasty to those who know better. It does remain wine.

Oops!! Last line of the first page DOES say they won't use any "ultra filtered" honey. I don't want my honey filtered at all, because it tastes better with the stuff in it. Not to worry it's a bit like saying McDonalds Big Mac will give prime rib a bad name. We are not getting rid of Micky D's and heated/filtered honey is here to stay. The up side....drinkers of cheap wine will eventually try the good stuff. If they were pushing pancake syrup you'd lose those customers to the maple syrup guys. One step at a time boys. Get the customer in the store first, upgrade the sale to the good stuff once they have already committed. This is how the world works. This article is good for all honest honey sales. 

These club stores make a fair profit from the $30 or so they charge every person annually to be a member. It's part of the deal, they get the profit they need upfront then you get as much as you can stand to buy basically at cost. 15% mark up might be a bit higher than what they actually do for a big jug of honey. Not much operating cost to run that new pallet of jugs into the store once the old pallet is empty. Way easier than stocking freezers with 27 pound boxes of fish sticks every day.


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## beemandan

ryan said:


> It does look like the Costco honey will have both domestic and imported honey in the bottle.


Unless the label says differently and they are totally lying in their ad…..
_Pure 100% US Honey_
http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?prodid=11747875&whse=BD_115&topnav=bd&cat=7017&hierPath=6221*90641*7017*&lang=en-US


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## BeeCurious

Here is photo of a label on a 5 lb bottle of honey sold at Costco. I saw this today.









"Product of U.S.A." Really?


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## sqkcrk

Why not? Why so skeptical?


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## BeeCurious

sqkcrk said:


> Why not? Why so skeptical?


Well, much of this thread is a discussion of non U.S. honey being sold...


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## jim lyon

It sure seems like there is an underlying assumption by many in this thread that Costco is doing something underhanded. What exactly are they doing wrong and where is the evidence?


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## Skinner Apiaries

Its that burned motor oil honey that says mixed source and includes any Asian country, especially India, Indonesia, or Vietnam that you have to look out for. That's pretty much guaranteed Chinese


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## Roy Coates

That was my wife's favorite honey until she tasted some raw wild honey from one of my colonies


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## beemandan

At the risk of repeating myself….
Do a search for Costco Kirkland Signature Honey and you will find:
* Pure 100% US Honey*

Which part of this is causing confusion?


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## BeeCurious

beemandan said:


> At the risk of repeating myself….
> Do a search for Costco Kirkland Signature Honey and you will find:
> * Pure 100% US Honey*


Good, I'll use it when i make Cyser this Winter. It's much cheaper than my honey.


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## rtoney

> Its that burned motor oil honey that says mixed source and includes any Asian country, especially India, Indonesia, or Vietnam that you have to look out for. That's pretty much guaranteed Chinese


I am not sure what the color has to do with anything. I just pulled honey from a hive that had not been touched for a couple of years and on wildflowers. It is burned motor oil in color great in taste and from southern Missouri. Unless the burned motor oil was speaking of something other then color and texture.


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## deknow

Product of the us means that the product was packaged in the us. The back label should say where the boney actually come from.. that is part of the true source spec.
I'm skeptical because they do everything but say it is domestic honey in the jar.
Deknow


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## beemandan

deknow said:


> they do everything but say it is domestic honey in the jar.





beemandan said:


> * Pure 100% US Honey*
> 
> Which part of this is causing confusion?


I'll repeat....which part of this is causing confusion?!


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## deknow

> only farm-fresh hive-ripened, 100% pure US Grade A honey


Us grade a is just grading...it does not mean it is produced in the us.

I couldn't get your link to work, but I found this description here.
http://m.costco.com/?p=aHR0cDovL3d3...rbWF0Y2hhbGxwYXJ0aWFsJk50eT0xJnRvcG5hdj0mcz0x

...or search for honey if that doesnt work.

Ad i said, they take great pains not to say it is pure honey produced in the us.

Deknow


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## deknow

Hold on....I do see that verbiage for the signature honey....my apologies. I would still be curious to see the actual label.
http://m.costco.com/Browse/Product....cat=7017&hierPath=6221*90641*7017*&lang=en-US


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## beemandan

deknow said:


> Ad i said, they take great pains not to say it is pure honey produced in the us.


Stay with me on this Dean.
Costco Kirkland Signature Honey…. go ahead....copy and paste it into the search engine of your choice. Google works fine.
You will see a Costco.com link…probably at the top of the list. Click on it.
Read the product details.
You will discover that it states….* Pure 100% US Honey*
This isn’t difficult


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## BeeCurious

Could that be a typo?

Could they have omitted the "*Grade A*" between US and Honey?


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## deknow

That would be my guess for two reasons.
1. It reads funny the way it is...hard to imagine that is what is on the label.
2. They didn't mention in their own article in their own publication that it was only u.s. honey.


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## sqkcrk

BeeCurious said:


> Here is photo of a label on a 5 lb bottle of honey sold at Costco. I saw this today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Product of U.S.A." Really?


Dean et al. It says it right there on the Label. Product of U.S.A. I don't see why you think it came from somewhere else.


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## Ramona

My cousin is a trucker and often brings vegetables from Mexico from Nogales to US destinations. Some go to a processing plant in New Jersey where they end up as frozen vegetables labeled Product of USA. 

Product of USA does not necessarily mean that the stuff in the package originated in the country on label.

Ramona


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## sqkcrk

That just ain't right. That should never happen. Are you sure? What brands? I want to check them out the next time I am in the grocery store.


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## BeeCurious

sqkcrk said:


> That just ain't right. That should never happen. Are you sure? What brands? I want to check them out the next time I am in the grocery store.


This might be interesting: https://www.federalregister.gov/art...37/country-of-origin-labeling-of-packed-honey

It looks like the country of origin is not required if a USDA grade is not printed on the label...

" Under this rule, any honey that has an official U.S. grade mark must include in its label the country of origin in letters at least the same size and in close proximity to the grade mark. For example, if foreign or domestic honey were labeled U.S. Grade A, then it would have to identify its country or countries of origin. Conversely, if the honey is not officially grade labeled, the country of origin labeling is not necessary whether the honey is domestic or foreign."


What part of the Code of Federal Regulations don't you understand?


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## deknow

The pure sweet standard does require country of origin.


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## beemandan

Ok
Dean says that they only stated with absolute specificity in one document.
Ramona says her cousin is mixed up in a scam to deceive US frozen vegetable customers.
How can anyone argue with the logic? You’ve convinced me…..Costco must be trying to fool us.
And on that note….I’m moving on.


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## ryan

Good for Costco for using only USA honey. Even better for us. Product of USA means it's domestic. Don't get confused. 

The company article seems to avoid the simple statement that they will buy ONLY USA honey. It is a very thin line, only the few of us looking to see it will notice its absence. Perhaps they need to leave the door slightly open incase it becomes necessary to use some imported honey in the future. Maybe some bean counter needs to cover his tail, or they didn't understand how to say it. Whatever, just keep buying domestic honey. GO COSTCO


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## Daniel Y

I found this in regard to the suggested deception of the wording "Product of the US"

This is a quote from "Complying with the Made in USA Standard" which can be read in it's entirety here.
http://business.ftc.gov/documents/bus03-complying-made-usa-standard

Quote:
A Made in USA claim can be express or implied.

Examples of express claims: Made in USA. "Our products are American-made." "USA."

In identifying implied claims, the Commission focuses on the overall impression of the advertising, label, or promotional material. Depending on the context, U.S. symbols or geographic references (for example, U.S. flags, outlines of U.S. maps, or references to U.S. locations of headquarters or factories) may convey a claim of U.S. origin either by themselves, or in conjunction with other phrases or images.

Example: A company promotes its product in an ad that features a manager describing the "true American quality" of the work produced at the company’s American factory. Although there is no express representation that the company’s product is made in the U.S., the overall — or net — impression the ad is likely to convey to consumers is that the product is of U.S. origin.
Brand names and trademarks

Ordinarily, the Commission will not consider a manufacturer or marketer’s use of an American brand name or trademark by itself as a U.S. origin claim. Similarly, the Commission is not likely to interpret the mere listing of a company’s U.S. address on a package label in a non-prominent way as a claim of U.S. origin.

Example: A product is manufactured abroad by a well-known U.S. company. The fact that the company is headquartered in the U.S. also is widely known. Company pamphlets for its foreign-made product prominently feature its brand name. Assuming that the brand name does not specifically denote U.S. origin (that is, the brand name is not "Made in America, Inc."), using the brand name by itself does not constitute a claim of U.S. origin.
Representations about entire product lines

Manufacturers and marketers should not indicate, either expressly or implicitly, that a whole product line is of U.S. origin ("Our products are made in USA") when only some products in the product line are made in the U.S. according to the "all or virtually all" standard.
Does the FTC pre-approve Made in USA claims?

The Commission does not pre-approve advertising or labeling claims. A company doesn’t need approval from the Commission before making a Made in USA claim. As with most other advertising claims, a manufacturer or marketer may make any claim as long as it is truthful and substantiated.
End Quote:

First this disproves the assumption that any other wording or even implied message other than the exact words Made in the USA are not enforceable.

It seems to me that the wording used by Costco is clearly a claim that the product is made in the USA. If so I am fairly certain this will come to the attention of the Federal Trade Commission. For those that do not think so, perhaps you should take it upon yourselves to bring it to their attention. *The Commission has the power to bring law enforcement actions against false or misleading claims that a product is of U.S. origin*. 

Notice the semi quote in bold says US Origin which significantly broadens the range of words or phrases that it can regulate. All the way up to determining a product is in violation for no more than what it implies.

I really don't think Costco and their teams of lawyers are going to be off guard on this one.


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## jparris001

I shop at Costco. And that would surprise most that know me because I am a huge advocate for "buy locally". I realize that where WalMart and Sam's Club have absolutely executed so many of the little mom and pop shops in rural communities, Costco tends to take a slightly higher line by actually offering awesome products that you can't find elsewhere. Where Sam's will just offer you an incredible price on bootleg fruit loops, Costco will offer an organic cereal product that you won't find anywhere else at a great price. My wife has bought the Costco honey before I got into beekeeping and it was pretty good.


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