# Bulk Honey Buyers



## BjornBee

Barry,
Can you define "bulk"?

Are you asking for just the buyers on beesource and those who volunteer their own information? Or are you asking for information on "any" operation that we know who buys bulk honey?

From your request, I assume that these people who have contacted you have honey to sell, and have no market or outlet. So why are they not the ones being listed?

I know several people/businesses who buy bulk. I think they have the more traditional contacts of word of mouth, personal interaction with industry types, etc. I'm not sure if these people would want their information on some (yet to be defined list) where every tom, dick and harry will be calling them.

Can you elaborate the request and shed a little light as to what your looking for, what will happen with the information, and what the objective is?

Thank you.


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## Barry

BjornBee said:


> Barry,
> Can you define "bulk"?


Large in quantity or amount. More than a couple 5 gallon buckets.



> Are you asking for just the buyers on beesource and those who volunteer their own information? Or are you asking for information on "any" operation that we know who buys bulk honey?


Any operation.



> From your request, I assume that these people who have contacted you have honey to sell, and have no market or outlet. So why are they not the ones being listed?


Correct. At one time, I was one looking to sell off all my bucketed honey. Ended up with way too much honey and due to a move, needed to get rid of it quickly.



> Can you elaborate the request and shed a little light as to what your looking for, what will happen with the information, and what the objective is?
> 
> Thank you.


The objective is to make available to beekeepers, a list of buyers that will buy their "extra" honey. I understand it would be bought at wholesale pricing, but something is better than nothing at times.

I'm not interested in anyone who doesn't want to be known as a buyer. I know they're out there, just never went down this road before. Almost did.

- Barry


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## BjornBee

Dutch Gold Honey Inc. 717-393-1716
2220 Dutch Gold Drive, Lancaster, Pa. 17601

They don't take 5 gallon buckets. Only 55 gallon drums. They prefer it by the truck load, but may work out a deal for smaller amounts of drums.



*Drapers =- Millerton Pa. 1800-233-4273

*Glorybee foods. easily found on the net.

*Wixson Honey. 607-243-7301

****I found these three in a mead making book, out of about 20 suppliers listed. I know they also buy honey.

I have not even googled buyers of bulk honey, or looked in any of the bee mags. Its not that hard to locate buyers of bulk honey.


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## BjornBee

Barry,
I guess having a list of bulk honey buyers for those who have produced it and can't find adequate markets could be beneficial. I don't see it myself, and question anyone who is in the business, has "bulk" amounts and can not find buyers. But anyways, thats not the reason for the post.

If your going to provide some sort of list for suppliers and buyers, regardless of the amounts, how about a honey locator here on beesource for MEMBERS who wish to sell thier honey.

I don't mind "local" people contacting me for a bottle or a case. Its a great way to make local contacts, sell some product and actually educate the public about honey and beekeeping in general.

I question the whole notion that beekeepers out there can't find "local" outlets for some amount of honey. And if you have a truckload of 55 gallon barrels, and need me to pass on the phone number to Dutch Gold....you need more than my help!

But I could see a list of "active" beesource members, who want to list contact information or even want to suggest what markets their honey could be found.

We have a list for pollination. But how about a list directing consumers and visitors to beesource, to members who produce honey on a local scale?

I personally do not, and will never list on the national honey board's "honey locator". I don't agree with the assessment, the politics, or the way they shove their so called "open" listing of non-assessment paying beekeepers off the main advertisement page and hide them on a secondary list that looks crappy.

I think a honey locator here on beesource for lesser outfits, (other than those who pay the assessment, and many of the same who also import foriegn honey), could serve the public, and direct them where they can buy local pure honey.

Comments???


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## Barry

Tell me how you see this organized on the forum. Sure I'm interested.

- Barry


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## BjornBee

Thanks Barry,

I think a state by state listing as your pollination forum is set up. 

What I personally would not want, is a list like the queen/suppliers section that has been collected from the bee mags, etc. The info on the queen supplier is not "member" based, and much of the information is outdated.

I think having the "local honey locator" forum could be set up for members only. Any post advertising a members honey for sale (not price - just the fact that one produces and sells local honey) could be dated and posted for a set period of time. Say 90 days. If it's not updated within the 90 day period, the post would be eliminated. It would be the members responsibility to update or repost information as needed.

Information could include voluntary information like name, address, phone number, website, or even local markets that carry someone's honey. But I have not really thought the whole benefits/ramification aspect completely for such information. (Not sure if I want calls at home for 6oz bears, as this can be time consuming, etc. But thats just me)Everyone could decide what information should be listed.

The forum could be called the "Your Local Honey Locator". To be used for those looking for local honey and the benefits of such honey. I think many are looking for such honey sources instead of the processed supermarket honey on the markets.

The state by state listing could be set up as example "Pennsylvania local honey", "New York Local Honey", etc. That way someone googling "local honey", "Pennsylvania honey", etc., or other key words would be directed to the site.

Still thinking about further details. Anyone want to add or comment?


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## NW IN Beekeeper

*No Rotation, No Fairness*

I kinda think the idea sucks. 

Its just another aspect of beekeeping that gives bias to the first person to post to that topic. 

Doesn't matter if I'm closer, have cheaper/better products, I'm going to loose consumers to the first person to post the topic. 
Buyers can/will be lazy and that is the net result when they are. 

There isn't any sort of rotation that makes everyone share the first posting location, and the buyer is going to bias to buy from the first person on the list. 

Its been done to swarm removals. 
Its been done to pollination. 
Might as well screw up honey sales for the average person too. 

Should a new member loose honey sales just because they joined a year after the topic was established and their post is at the bottom where it is never read? 

-Jeff


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## BjornBee

NW,
How many "local" beekeepers are from Crown Point? I know I was the first to post on the pollination and swarm list. A year later, I'm still the only person advertising for swarm removals in the several county area that I have listed. I guess the same can be said about pollination also.

I don't realistically expect a person from outside my area to drive from New York, Pittsburgh, Philly, or D.C., just to pick up a bottle of honey.

I guess for a person willing to ship, that varietal honey could be benefited.

I really think anything that allows consumers to come into contact with local producers and beekeepers, and to buy honey other than the foreign mixed honey from wal-mart or other supermarkets, could be seen as positive.

But since you think its a area of concern, I don't know if some type rotation is possible. My own feeling is that I don't give much thought to the beekeeper who joins beesource a year from now, and missed out on being up the list. I would think he would be happy to find beesource, find a site he could advertise on, and benefit as the beekeepers who came before him.

I never really thought much of being first as opposed to last on the list for swarms and pollination. Maybe the posts as I mentioned would be deleted every so often and as they are re-entered again by the beekeeper, the post would be posted last.

BTW NW, Your not even on the pollination thread.  I'm not convinced that the whole grand total of three listed on the pollination thread for Indiana is impacting competition and changing the dynamics of business models.

And I strongly disagree that Barry has "screwed up" anything with swarm removals and pollination. He is providing the public a service and allowing beesource members to benefit as well.


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## NW IN Beekeeper

----------------------------------
[Your not even on the pollination thread.]
Darned if you are, darned if you aren't

I'm not on the list, because I'm not contributing what I don't believe in. 
I'm not going to give it any extra traction. I don't need to. 
You say that like I don't have any right to voice an opinion because I don't subscribe. 
If I was signed up you'd point your finger and say 'it was alright by me enough to sign up'. (I'm not allow to win regardless what I choose!)
---------------------------------

I think that beesource is a great location for information. 

As I meet new beekeepers I am frequently asked about what books are good and what sources of information are the best. Beesource is one of the foremost mentioned. 

With the mention comes exploration of the website and eventual membership. If I regularly introduce local beekeepers to the website, I'm going to create a saturation of local beekeepers that belong to beesource. And if those beekeepers take use of the swarm/pollinator/honey boards, that is going to direct competition to my service. 

Now that competion has existed naturally since beekeeping has been started. The difference has always been that beekeepers have always had to build and nurture their own markets, thus creating a market. To me, this is earned business, and the products earned from that are will deserved. 

This idea of creating a centralized list, with the devote idea of pulling people in from search engines and the like, is focusing the market to one location, and creating one plate from which both the buyer buys from and one plate that local sellers have to collectively compete. Produce one bottle of honey or seven varieties, you'll have the same treatment a name on a list from which novice people are blindly buying honey. 

To me, one that treasures the effort I put into my product and treasures explaining to the customer why my product is worth what it is (not in cost, but worth in its quality but verses foreign bulk blends and the such). 

I think that many beekeepers have taken great efforts to design very nice and good functioning websites to sell their products. I think it wrong for them to loose business because beesource gets a higher search engine standing because of all the other traffic it generates. This will effectively siderail buyers from individual websites. 

I know the arguement is going to be, well let the seller link to their website. Well that it becomes a battle of the websites. Who has a cheaper price, who has less shipping, who has extra varieties. 

In doing so, you are making the little producers fight amongst themselves for the same piece of business, rather than promoting them and bringing them more sources business. 
I don't see this as a benefit, at least not to us as the producers.

I know, I am only complaining about the negative. 
If I could think of an effective and fair way to do this, I'd offer my positive suggestions. I just think anyway it is done is going to have a degree of bias. 

I think anyone that is seeking honey on the internet is eventually going to find it on a website from someone near them. Beesource provides so many other avenues of good information, to indirectly promote a few first listing posters does a reasonable disservice to the great contributors to these forums. 

I've tried to be reasonable and consider other forums, like the For Sale Forum. This is significantly different because you have one of a kind items that often of one piece for sale. This sort of sale has a limited life span. 

This is entirely different because honey is a replenished item. 
And likely, local beekeepers are going to have the same local varieties. 
The item is not unique, nor does it deplete. 
Thus the completition never ceases. 

To what benefit to me do I have to suggest to others to join beesource and compete for my market of my hard earned product? 

I understand that this post was started to locate Bulk producer - not the corner farmstand guy to have an outlet. If honey is needed in bulk, why not just ask you local beekeeping club who has surplus, or who the big guy is? The list would only be as good as the frequency at which it is updated. One bad flow could wipe out or one could never have built an inventory. I see only a very limited utility for a list of this type. 

Look at how quickly the bee suppliers list grew dead links or aged with incorrect information, or never has had new suppliers added. I'm not griping at Barry, everything takes work, everything take organization and once built, things take maintenance to keep upto a standard of quality.

This board lives so well on its own because the software manages itself so well. If that technology did not exist, we'd likely be back to exchanging post cards like the the 1900's. I have a great deal of respect for what we have here. I have a great deal of respect for other people here. I think some area of beekeeping are best left to other websites to prevent in-fighting and disrupting the great function of everything else.


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## Mike Gillmore

You have my vote. Sounds like an excellent idea to me. 

There are a lot of "guests" looking over this site every day. I wonder what the percentages may be of guests that are not beekeepers but individuals who are just interested in learning about beekeeping and its products. And this group probably knows the difference between common store shelf honey and "local honey" they would get from a beekeeper. 

If "long lists" are a problem, then perhaps each state could somehow be further broken down into counties, and the suppliers listed there. That would surely shorten the lists and also help narrow down the search for those seeking local honey. Not sure if that's possible, just a thought.


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## NW IN Beekeeper

[If "long lists" are a problem, then perhaps each state could somehow be further broken down into counties, and the suppliers listed there. That would surely shorten the lists and also help narrow down the search for those seeking local honey. Not sure if that's possible, just a thought.]

I liked the idea, and thought about that too. 

But what about those that produce honey in multiple areas, or are willing to sell throughout the state? 
For example, Indiana has 92 counties - does one person repost 92 times if they sell throughout the state? 
What if I want to sell in other states? 
Am I limited to listing in only my home county? 
Would I only post in the county that 'hosted' the bees for the honey production?

I think most beekeepers are willing to ship honey to just about anywhere that has a reasonable shipping expense. Should they miss business because of a more local beekeeper? 

The county idea places proverbal blinders on the buyer. 
This is especially true because of the thread style design the forum is based.


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## Mike Gillmore

NW IN Beekeeper said:


> I think most beekeepers are willing to ship honey to just about anywhere that has a reasonable shipping expense. Should they miss business because of a more local beekeeper?


It seems that we may have differing visions of the intent of a forum such as this. My thinking was to provide a listing service mainly for locals, those willing to drive across town and pick up a 1# jar or 5 gal bucket of honey. 

If someone is in the business of shipping honey statewide or nationwide, and they are relying on a beekeeping forum as even a minor sales outlet, then it's time to rethink their marketing strategy.


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## NW IN Beekeeper

[...they are relying on a beekeeping forum as even a minor sales outlet, then it's time to rethink their marketing strategy.]

Hehe... Yeah I agree but you know someone is going to try it! 

-Jeff


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## Barry

NW IN Beekeeper said:


> Now that competion has existed naturally since beekeeping has been started. The difference has always been that beekeepers have always had to build and nurture their own markets, thus creating a market. To me, this is earned business, and the products earned from that are will deserved.
> 
> This idea of creating a centralized list, with the devote idea of pulling people in from search engines and the like, is focusing the market to one location, and creating one plate from which both the buyer buys from and one plate that local sellers have to collectively compete. Produce one bottle of honey or seven varieties, you'll have the same treatment a name on a list from which novice people are blindly buying honey.
> 
> To me, one that treasures the effort I put into my product and treasures explaining to the customer why my product is worth what it is (not in cost, but worth in its quality but verses foreign bulk blends and the such).
> 
> I think that many beekeepers have taken great efforts to design very nice and good functioning websites to sell their products. I think it wrong for them to loose business because beesource gets a higher search engine standing because of all the other traffic it generates. This will effectively siderail buyers from individual websites.
> 
> I know the arguement is going to be, well let the seller link to their website. Well that it becomes a battle of the websites. Who has a cheaper price, who has less shipping, who has extra varieties.
> 
> In doing so, you are making the little producers fight amongst themselves for the same piece of business, rather than promoting them and bringing them more sources business.
> I don't see this as a benefit, at least not to us as the producers.
> 
> [snip]
> 
> I think anyone that is seeking honey on the internet is eventually going to find it on a website from someone near them.


I'm surprised at the lack of input on this thread by members.

I run my own business and I'm in direct competition with many other builders in my area. I have never felt threatened by their presence. I see local bulletin boards in restaurants and building material suppliers that are filled with business cards of local craftsmen. There are websites that list local craftsmen. I'm not sure how effective you will be in trying to keep your competition silenced. The Internet is a staple of life now and it is yet another way (probably the first step) for people to find products and services. If, as you mentioned, people are already going to have their own website for honey, how then is listing them here doing anyone harm?

- Barry


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## Chef Isaac

I am game for this. It is hard to destinguish (sp?) youeself from another person that sells honey. I think varietals play a key roll but I also think the customer service is one of those things that really can make or break you.


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## mistergil

Barry said:


> I'm surprised at the lack of input on this thread by members.- Barry


After reading the thread twice, I guess I don't see the real issue(s).

Marketing of bee products and bee related services is a multi faceted entity. Quality and service will bring top dollar and encourage repeat business. If this website facilitates a sale or two to some beek there is no harm done or unfair advantage gained as the market is so large and the actual suppliers too few. If the site develops into a solely marketing entity then it may be time to rethink it's intent but until then what's the harm?


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## tecumseh

someone suggested:
Hehe... Yeah I agree but you know someone is going to try it! 

tecumseh replies:
me thinks perhaps someone already has...

sounds like another way to provide enough information so that the honey packers/retailers can undermine each and every small bee keeping enterprise on this board. which is to say that when Barry (don't take this personal Barry it is only hypothetical) sells his crop to the fellow (who does owns 3 hives) that sells honey across from me at the farmers market who then cuts his price 30 percent lower than my own honey... it is quite evident who profits but who pays is sometime not quite so clear.

didn't any of you beekeepers learn anything in regards to chinese honey? are you not exhausted from competiting with chinese slave labor yet? really just wondering who is paying attention.

sounds like someone need to put on their marketing hat.


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## Chef Isaac

Tec:

I would have to somewhat agree. However, when the smaller beekeeper buys honey from a bigger operation, I do not see HOW they can cut there prices. 

Lets take an example. Some years I have to buy honey to supply my customers. The honey costs about 1.67 a pound. Through on a label which is around $.15 and the jar which is $.55, the profit margin is minimal (sp?). Not sure how anyone can drop their price if you are orginally selling it for $5 a pound. 

I think to make any money in this business, you have to be able to:

1) provide outstanding customer service
2) spread out a little and offer different things
3) and market youself better. 

This is the hard part!


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## kc in wv

I think our number one hurdle is to educate the consumer of the reasons they want to buy local honey. Once that goal is accomplished then they will find the locals, even if the name is buried in a list from their state.

Yesterday our local association had a booth at a local fair. We had beekeeping info and attractants such as observation hive, hornet nest, honey cook books, and a cup full of dead yellowjackets. We also had 5 beekeepers selling honey and a sign of what part of the county the honey was produced. Some educated people went down the line and picked the honey that was closes to their home. We all did well on our sales.


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## WVbeekeeper

Bjourn> I think a state by state listing as your pollination forum is set up

i agree

you could also set up one for people who sell nucs or hives. so local people could find a source and even get a chance to look in what they are buying before the buy. you could also set one up for queen breeders who are members here on beesource. i know a lot of times that they post in the for sale section, but i think many times people have queens or nucs that they would sell but don't post. 

>[Your not even on the pollination thread.]
"Darned if you are, darned if you aren't

I'm not on the list, because I'm not contributing what I don't believe in."

i'm not on the list either, even though i pm'ed peggjam to ask if he could start one, and it was done within a day, because i thought it might prove to be valuable to those who pollinate. just as adding a section for people who sell honey, or even nucs, packages, hives, or queens could prove to be valuable for the people who wish to do so, even if i don't get on the list myself.


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## Bizzybee

A lot could be said here!

First of all. Chef, Firefox and her sisters have built in spell checkers. And you can download an addon for IE here: http://www.iespell.com/ It doesn't check as you type and you have to call it when you're finished. But it works well. There are others I would guess. Hopefully save you some grief?

I don't put much thought in what the competition is up to other than the prices. Not that I plan to match, exceed or undermine any of them. But I want to be in the ballpark. Quality and service will bring your people back! No doubt I will steal customers from them and they from me. When you can't sell your product anymore, maybe you need to rethink your strategy.

As for an unfair advantage? What of the folks that don't have computers or knowledge of them at all. Even better, they couldn't care less. They seem to be content with their businesses. 

I'm going to sell like I buy. Given that price and quality are equal, then the service and personal connection wins. Given the latter is better, I will not balk at paying a little more to a point. Then there are those that money is no object to and yet others that want everything for nothing. I don't intend to give my products away nor do I intend to gouge anyone because I can.

It's been a sorry year for honey here in GA and I'm all but sold out of this years honey, plus what I'll feed back to the bees. I haven't looked for new customers because I intend to have what little I have left for my regulars.

Next year I'll certainly be looking to sell honey wholesale, provided it's at least half what is expected. So I would like to see a list of buyers! And I'll probably talk to most if not all of them. Not the first I come to.

So I really couldn't care less who posts what here or anywhere else. If I don't find what I'm looking for here, I'll go somewhere else. That given, I'm all for posting here.

Competition is just the way it works. And a good thing!! Advertising is a tiny part of getting customers. After that it's the salesman, sorry salesperson, that will make them a customer or not. Something a lot of folks and companies seem to have forgotten.

I wish all of you the best of luck!! And that isn't just for you on the other side of the country, that includes any across the street. Competition can certainly be friendly!!

No you can't barrow my customer list!! Duhhhhh


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## Chef Isaac

Bizzy:

Why the low punches? I see how it is... no more love 

Spelling is not my strong point! Why cant English be spelled like it sounds... like Italian or Spanish? I can spell things in Spanish or Italian bettern then I can in English!

Thanks for pointing out my crappy spelling... but things for the link though!


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## Rob

Even if Beesource does organise a forum for honey buyers or honey sellers I'll probablly never use it as at the moment I have no import/export license.

But I will give my opinion on what I think would work well.

When Barry first posted I got the impression he wanted a list for where hobbyist or small time beekepeers could sell of excess honey, then I understood Bjorns idea to be a list where honey can be bought/sold locally. I think both are good ideas.

I think Barrys and Bjorns suggestion could be solved with two seperate boards in The Exchange. Honey Buyers and Honey Sellers, basically set up with a list of states just like the Pollination Service. Any third party buyers must be clearly marked as a "non Beesource member". I think it would be best to have negotiations thru Pm and email and not be discussed on the board.

The only problem I could see, is it could turn into a classifieds, with boards with Removals, Mead, Wax Processing, Extraction Services etc etc.

I think someone who SOLELY relies on the board for selling their honey certainly does need to review their marketing strategies. But in my opinion a good marketing strategy is to have as many different outlets as possible, posting on the board would be another outlet, just like a business card in the shop window, an ad in the local rag, or your own website with flashing knobs an' all.

Conclusion; It gets my vote.


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## Bizzybee

Not taking any punches Chef, love is still alive and well 

In your own words:
I am game for this. It is hard to destinguish (sp?)
the profit margin is minimal (sp?)

You seemed a little bothered by it yourself. You've been in the chat room enough to know that most of us can barely spell our names!  And really don't care. Getting your point across is all that matters! I agree English is getting so twisted and distorted it's unbelievable! Americans love to play on words and it's leaving it's own people behind in being able to speak their own language.

Enough of that!!! 

Anyhow, if spelling were my only fault, life would be real good!!! So I'm not one to poke at anyones grammar or spelling!

You Bee Cool....


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## Dan Williamson

NW IN Beekeeper said:


> I kinda think the idea sucks.
> 
> Its just another aspect of beekeeping that gives bias to the first person to post to that topic.
> 
> Doesn't matter if I'm closer, have cheaper/better products, I'm going to loose consumers to the first person to post the topic.
> Buyers can/will be lazy and that is the net result when they are.
> 
> There isn't any sort of rotation that makes everyone share the first posting location, and the buyer is going to bias to buy from the first person on the list.
> 
> Its been done to swarm removals.
> Its been done to pollination.
> Might as well screw up honey sales for the average person too.
> 
> Should a new member loose honey sales just because they joined a year after the topic was established and their post is at the bottom where it is never read?
> 
> -Jeff


Jeff,

I'm struggling to understand how this negatively impacts you?


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## Jon D.

*Honey Board Advertising*

Barry,

I really like Rob's idea of two boards set up in the "Exchange". One for sellers, and one for buyers. That way some can look at both boards to get their needs met. Breaking it out by state would help for a quicker "browse", but I think counties would be excessive. Perhaps break states into "North" "South" "East" and "West", or other geographical delineations. For people who work in multiple sections of the state, they could post in each quadrant. I would also echo Rob's concern that it could become a "Classifieds". Maybe a way to minimize that, and to restrict it to only members would be to require a "donation" to the website in exchange for posting rights. It could be a good source of income for the website, and as long as it were small enought, it would help reduce the "Ads" on the section, and serve as true Advertising. And all correspondence should take place through PM's or Email. I wouldn't want all my personal info out there for the world to see.

And don't worry about the "competition" that it would create. Capitalism thrives on fair competition, and suffocates without it. We would not be competeing against Chinese honey on a board like this. But merely competeing against each other.

It would be nice if there was a method to help everyone keep their names towards the top of the list as NW and Bjorn discussed. So that the top wasn't always the same, and there was some rotation to the advertising content. Maybe like Bjorn said, with a 90 day limit on the ad.

Please don't everyone jump down my throat about this. These are only my opinions, and they stink just as much as everyone else's.

--Jon D.


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## tecumseh

jon d sezs:
And don't worry about the "competition" that it would create. Capitalism thrives on fair competition, and suffocates without it. We would not be competeing against Chinese honey on a board like this. But merely competeing against each other.

tecumseh politely ask:
so pilgrim... what to keep me from driving my one ton down to beaumont picking up four barrels of chinese honey and repackaging and resaling it on this board? heck I could even use the ploy to reduce my competition to poverty by 'dumping' the product via some other bee keeper in grand rapids and creating the impression to your own customer base that you were gaffing them in regards to price.

it is quite within the realm of possiblities that information that you supply to this forum in regards to the buying and selling of honey can and will be used againist you... you do not pocess maranda rights in this regards.


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## Barry

There will always be someone looking and willing to be deceptive and unethical. If we lived our lives trying to keep such people from their ways, we would live the victim life. I'm not going to do something good just because someone might do something bad with the good. If such acts were done as you mention, that would be illegal and not something I'm going to police.

- Barry


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## rainesridgefarm

I think it is a great idea. I buy and sell other peoples honey all the time. Small beekeepers that love beekeeping but hate selling it I buy it and sell it. I have beekeepers that had a bad year and need to buy some to keep their store full of honey. I do not go after their stores with my own product just help them when they need it. Word of mouth on this board will shut down anyone not being ethical. I have learned who not to buy from or sell to.


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## Jon D.

*Please Visit*

tecumseh sez:
what to keep me from driving my one ton down to beaumont picking up four barrels of chinese honey and repackaging and resaling it on this board? heck I could even use the ploy to reduce my competition to poverty by 'dumping' the product via some other bee keeper in grand rapids and creating the impression to your own customer base that you were gaffing them in regards to price.

Pilgrim (Jon D.) kindly replies:
By all means please do. For three great reasons...
1) I would love to get a chance to sit down and chat with a fellow beekeeper. Especially one from an exotic place like Texas. It would be nice to see what beekeeping is doing down there.
2) I always welcome competition. You can't undercut me anymore that the local grocery stores do. If my customers wanted cheap, there is a myriad of other places (and beeks) to get honey from.
3)Tecumseh historically is from the Great Lakes Region anyways. You could visit Detroit, site of one of his great battles.

P.S. It is spelled "Miranda rights", not maranda 
P.P.S. What is a "gaff" after all?

--Jon D.


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## tecumseh

oh barry I don't even question your purposes..... and I don't really think what rainesridge or chef are doing is in anyway unethical as long as the customer understand what they are buying.

I just say... go slow and careful with both hands on the helm.

my 2 cents...


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## irwin harlton

*You mislabelled this thread*

Current market prices tell me their are no bulk honey buyers, there are bulk honey takers ,offering less than what north american honey is worth. These takers will take your honey for a meager sum , less than a 1.00/lb blend it with cheap foreign honey and sell it.
They are all in competition with one another, for market share, for the lowest price on the shelf, and to see who can make the most profit.
The industrial honey market, which accounts for nearly 50% or better of all honey sold in the USA is governed strictly by price alone.That big cereal maker don't care where his honey comes from or it's quality, he just wants to be able to say on the cereal box it's got honey in it, even if it's only 10 cents worth of honey .You see the word " honey" has a very good name with consumers and this helps sales.


irwin
in manitoba, canada, where there's 8 months of winter and 4 months of poor sledding


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## sqkcrk

irwin harlton said:


> Current market prices tell me their are no bulk honey buyers, there are bulk honey takers ,offering less than what north american honey is worth. These takers will take your honey for a meager sum , less than a 1.00/lb blend it with cheap foreign honey and sell it.
> They are all in competition with one another, for market share, for the lowest price on the shelf, and to see who can make the most profit.
> The industrial honey market, which accounts for nearly 50% or better of all honey sold in the USA is governed strictly by price alone.That big cereal maker don't care where his honey comes from or it's quality, he just wants to be able to say on the cereal box it's got honey in it, even if it's only 10 cents worth of honey .You see the word " honey" has a very good name with consumers and this helps sales.
> 
> 
> irwin
> in manitoba, canada, where there's 8 months of winter and 4 months of poor sledding


Do you expect differently? Isn't this true w/ just about any commodity? Certainly you don't expect things to be different w/ honey, do you?

Honey packers are in the BUSINESS of making money by selling honey. If you, or anyone else, doesn't like the price that they are quoted by the packers try packing it yourself and see how much you get and how much it costs you to produce, package and distribute your own honey.

If you aren't willing to do that then let's stop boo-hooing about what someone else is willing to pay us for our product and get on with enjoying our livelyhood or, probably most of y'all, our hobby.


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## irwin harlton

*reply*

"Do you expect differently? Isn't this true w/ just about any commodity? Certainly you don't expect things to be different w/ honey, do you?

Honey packers are in the BUSINESS of making money by selling honey. If you, or anyone else, doesn't like the price that they are quoted by the packers try packing it yourself and see how much you get and how much it costs you to produce, package and distribute your own honey.

If you aren't willing to do that then let's stop boo-hooing about what someone else is willing to pay us for our product and get on with enjoying our livelyhood or, probably most of y'all, our hobby."

Yes, I did expect things to be different this fall and maybe they will be yet
Perhaps you should check what the price of corn, wheat, oil, and gold have done in the past 2-3 months, many commodities have increased dramatically and inflation is rising steadly
I have been following Ron Phipps aricles in the ABJ and it is quite possible that a shortage of honey will occur.
I also pack and sell a little honey,about xxxx cases a year so I know the bottom line on that.
Can't sell it all that way, believe me I'D LOVE TOO so I get to deal with the packers.
Like any buissness , it's much more fun when you make money.I would say that the current prices offered do not reflect a decent profit for producing bulk honey in north america.
There are certain risks invoved in producing a honey crop, weather being a very big one,
and a good crop or a bumper crop is not obtained every year.
This honey buissness may be a hobby for you but I make my living out of it, maybe you should try it


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## sqkcrk

irwin harlton;267558
This honey buissness may be a hobby for you but I make my living out of it said:


> I believe that you and I are in the same boat, making a living wise. At least I've been trying to. I'm sure an accountant would advise me to try something else. I may not be getting what I want for my honey, but there are other benefits that keep me trying. I imagine that this may be true for you too?


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## irwin harlton

*Yes we are in the same boat*

Honey prices are going up AND

"A rising tide lifts all boats"

and you are right there are alot of other benefits in this buissness. Getting to work very close to nature and God's wonderfull gift to humanity the honey bee, being just one.

Sometimes the bottom line just doesn't seem that important in the grand scheme of life


Irwin
...... getting alittle older, not necessiarly wiser, but loving what I do....... I keep bees.


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## BeeBrothersApiary

interesting discussion..thanks for sharing your knowledge


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## RAlex

Irwin I think you are pretty much on track with this comment
"Current market prices tell me their are no bulk honey buyers, there are bulk honey takers ,offering less than what north american honey is worth. These takers will take your honey for a meager sum , less than a 1.00/lb blend it with cheap foreign honey and sell it." 
With prices for Bees and equipment as well as operating costs ( gas ), winter losses etc going up every year yet the large packers holding the price of bulk honey down for obivious reasons. I would suggest that they (large packers) are 
price fixing in order to enhance profits. It is to their advantage to offer lower prices when a small operation needs the cash flow to expand their operation. If they get a small beeks harvest they dont make as much but from a beek that produces 10-15 barrels there is a substantial amount of money to be made . You can do the math . I am a small beek but by no means am I a simple beek, having negotiated several labor agreements I have leaned to count the beans.
I did not intend to stray from the original topic. I think it would be a good idea to list honey buyers , and sellers not only for the purposes of the board but to offer our customers a better variety of honeys. I hope that this idea will not be picked apart by people ....Rick Alexander


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## irwin harlton

*market*

Too much buying power is held by a small number of large sized packers.They can manipulate the market.They stick together tighter than a flock of sheep
Producers are still paying for the big price paid to producers in 2002. This fall
they literally stole the Argentina crop, which was off 30% but prices only increased 10-12 % and white honey was in short supply.
Packers wharehouses are full this 2007 fall, they are still buying cheap domestic honey and paying alittle more for it elsewhere.
US 2007 crop is off 14% from 2006 crop and 2006 crop was the worst ever.( SOURCE- bee culture magazine)
Inflation is going to rage up into high double digits from this economic mess.
Imports to the US are going to cost more.
Accurate information is one the few powers producers have.
Mid US Honey Producers hotline is one source, 763 658 4193


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## MadBowbee

I agree with Irwin, big packers have a lot of buying power and can hold huge inventories. You've probably already mentioned this in previous posts, but what is the Candian position on country of origin labeling?


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## irwin harlton

*country of orgin label in canada*

kinda of a joke here, a bad joke on producers
Canadian honey council has been asking CFIA to change the current honey label for 8 years
Current label says Canada#1, (OR grade) and infine print on the back blend of or country of orgin , so far all that has been accomplished is a study by CFIA that shows the labels could possibly be missleading to a consumer.We are not the only industry affected by this, the juice industry has a problem where the country of orgin is not shown or required.
tis a sad state of affairs
Domestic honey is tested in the same no. of tests as imported, and these numbers are not high
CFIA is a disaster looking for a place to happen, and give it enought time it will ; only it wouldn't be pet food it will be people food


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## NuBeeGirl

Wow this thread went way off topic didnt it lol. We'll I've been lurking on this forum for a while but I decided to join today since I'm in need of purchasing bulk amounts of raw honey for my newly founded business  Trying to go down the health route... Anyways
I guess I could give it a shot here. I'm looking for lots and lots of buckwheat of any sorts (wildflower buckwheat) or those dark honeys... and sage of any sorts  white, purple, black button ... So please if anyone can supply me with some honey, I'll purchase it at any quantity. 

Shoot me an email at
[email protected]


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