# Feeling "ripped off"



## xroads (Apr 9, 2013)

Buy a box, goto UPS and see how much it cost to ship it back and you will have your answer.


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## beewitched (Apr 15, 2014)

USPS will ship it 2 day delivery priority mail for $5.80 and the box is free from USPS


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## ChrisBex (Jul 24, 2014)

Go turkey hunting this year. Free brushes with a nice tasty turkey.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

If you don't check the shipping costs _before _you finalize your purchase you don't really have too much ground to complain afterwards.


Shipping packages can be a complex process. Even after the shipper pays for the box, any dunnage* used, and the carrier fees, there are issues in getting those packages into a carrier's hands. Some carriers charge a fee to make pickups at a shipper's door.


*dunnage is used inside the package to protect the contents. (air pillows, bubble wrap, brown paper, styrofoam, etc)

.


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

cost = item price plus shipping and handling. shipping more than the item is common today.


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## mjfranks (May 24, 2014)

And I know for a fact that many companies consider their shipping department a profit center.


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## ryandebny (Apr 17, 2010)

Your paying for shipping and an hours wage for the employee that boxed it...in 10 minutes. Try to wait until fall for orders. Many places have thanksgiving free shipping on medium or large orders


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## DJhoney (Jul 15, 2014)

That's one reason why I wait to order more than one or two low prices items. Mann Lake loves me and many others. Buy $100 worth and get free shipping. Luckily I have a Walter Kelly Dealer about 30 min from me where I can pick up the small things if and when I need em. Sorry man.


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## kingd (Oct 31, 2013)

If you buy more than the brush the shipping will most likely stay the same,Most places have a base shipping charge.
Just had to order a$5.50 cable that will fit in a small envelope and shipping is $13.95 for example.


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

Never thought I'd be recommending Betterbee again but they have reasonable shipping options. Their bee brush can ship for as little as $2.86. (USPS First-Class Mail -Parcel.)

Whoever charged you 14.65 made a nice profit off of you. Time to shop around for the future.

Wayne


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## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

waynesgarden said:


> Whoever charged you 14.65 made a nice profit off of you. Time to shop around for the future.


Depends how it was shipped. If you happened to check off the 'next day' box on the shipping form, and got it for 14.65, you got a bargain. If it was 30 day slowboat, then it was spendy. And there are lots of other options in between.

Shipping cheap stuff is big business these days. Shipping companies are a bigger industry than manufacturing the goods today, at least in North America. That $6 bee brush probably cost the vendor on the order of 3 bucks when they broke it out of the container that came from China. The real input to the North American economy of that brush, is the shipping charges to first get it from the docks to the vendor (absorbed in the 3 dollar markup), and then from the vendor to the customer, billed as an added extra. Between the docks, and the final customer, it's probably been handled by 8 or 9 different folks along the way, most making a decent wage in the process.


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## beewitched (Apr 15, 2014)

waynesgarden said:


> Never thought I'd be recommending Betterbee again but they have reasonable shipping options. Their bee brush can ship for as little as $2.86. (USPS First-Class Mail -Parcel.)]
> 
> Thanks Wayne, I wonder why other suppliers don't offer USPS as an option? I'll sure try Betterbee next time!


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## bbruff22 (Dec 24, 2013)

DJhoney said:


> That's one reason why I wait to order more than one or two low prices items. Mann Lake loves me and many others. Buy $100 worth and get free shipping. Luckily I have a Walter Kelly Dealer about 30 min from me where I can pick up the small things if and when I need em. Sorry man.


I'm trying to work up an order today. I don't need $100 bucks worth of stuff right now, but for the free shipping that Mann has it's hard to beat, and I know I'll use the extra stuff in time. I'll check betterbee out. I've not used them before.


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## Yvesrow1 (Jan 27, 2013)

mjfranks said:


> And I know for a fact that many companies consider their shipping department a profit center.


I second that


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## mala54 (Jul 18, 2014)

use a soft bristled paint brush


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## challenger (May 27, 2009)

I've said it too many times-bee supply companies shipping charges are a huge rip off.
That being said, why did you not see what the thing was going to cost?????


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

beewitched said:


> Does anyone else think a shipping charge for a $6 bee brush should be $14.65? :s


Supposing you were shipping a 10,000 dollar diamond ring to your girlfriend or wife. Would 14.65 be exorbitant? It is not the price of the item that determines the cost of shipping if the weight size and distance were similar.


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

The 14 dollars could be absorbent. The 65 cents could not.

Bur what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

Wayne


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Absorbent, Wayne? Good one.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Acebird said:


> Would 14.65 be absorbent?


Sucks a lot of money from ones wallet. Especially if you make a lot of small orders.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Well, tea leaves _are _absorbent ... but then so is kitty litter.  Maybe Ace is talking about shipping those diamonds from China packed in _absorbent _tea! 






> It is not the price of the item that determines the cost of shipping if the weight size and distance were similar.


Au contraire! If you are shipping a $10,000 diamond and only paying $14.65 in shipping, you are a fool! :no:

For $14.65 you likely will not be getting any insurance on that package [except possibly the $100 _default _insurance that some carriers offer], and if something happens to that $10,000 package, the carrier will say _*Tough Luck*_! 

Insurance in package shipping is _closely _tied to the value of the item shipped.  For instance, the current _Registered Mail_ fee for USPS shipping on that $10,000 diamond is $31.80 PLUS regular postage for the package. It you had sprung for a $25,000 diamond instead, then the _Registered Mail_ fee would be $53.50 PLUS regular postage. If you were flush enough to ship a _$15 million_ diamond by Registered Mail, the fee alone is over $23,261.

.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Shipping tea to China? Huh, sounds familiar. Like coals to Newcastle?


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

sqkcrk said:


> Absorbent, Wayne? Good one.


Sometimes it's just way too easy.

Wayne


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## cowdoc (May 15, 2011)

First, thanks for all the good words about Betterbee. We are trying hard to bring quality items at good prices with as low as possible shipping. We have negotiated extensively with Fedex for good rates and have passed those along. 

Setting up shipping for a website or other system where you are quoting shipping for a shopping cart prior to having the box packed can be a difficult project. It seems that it should not be, but there are a lot of factors that come in to play such as what can be packed together and what can be packed inside something else and how big the box needed is and if it is better to ship in 2 boxes or one big box. If you are a residence, there is an automatic ~$3 bump in the price. If the box is a little too big, then shipping is calculated on dimensions, not weight. Coming soon, it will all be calculated that way for all shipments to try to keep some of the big guys from shipping everything in one size box (put a pen or a case of paper towel in the same box, one is shipping a lot of air). Sometimes, the programs set up to predict shipping are wrong. If you make a graph of post office rates by weight and do a line for each zone, the result looks more like a flower than a set of parallel lines. The variability in pricing makes it hard to get accurate algorithms setup.

To be fair to the person you did buy the brush from, give them a call and ask if there is a different way to ship it for less and if the shipping charge seems right for the item. We answer that question routinely. We have a new computer system we are working on setting up that will make it a lot easier to see USPS and FedEx rates all in a single list for the weight being shipped. Most brushes could go in an envelope and go at first class postage easily.

Hope that helps. 

Chris Cripps
[email protected]
800-632-3379


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

waynesgarden said:


> Sometimes it's just way too easy.
> 
> Wayne


Maybe he meant onerous?


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## jjohnsind (Apr 24, 2014)

Amazon!


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## Jecsd1 (May 20, 2014)

beewitched said:


> Does anyone else think a shipping charge for a $6 bee brush should be $14.65? :s


Why not a large paint brush from ACE? Works for me, no shipping.


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## dingo983 (Feb 10, 2011)

If I am not making a large order, ebay is my go to place. Bee brush, $8.27, free shipping, U.S. seller.


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## beewitched (Apr 15, 2014)

Did I hit a nerve by starting this thread or what! 

In fact, I did'nt buy the brush because I was not going to be overcharged for shipping.

I do appreciate all the suggestions given and I appreciate the comments by Chris Cripps of BetterBee!
If BetterBee can ship at reasonable rates, it seems to me that the other suppliers could do the same!

I am happy to find BetterBee as my new supplier and will be using them for ALL my bee supply needs and encourage all my beekeeping friends, my beekeeping club members (Fayco Beeks) and others to do so as well. After all, why allow yourself to be "ripped off" ?


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## maudbid (Jul 21, 2014)

Amazon Prime


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## treetrunk (Apr 25, 2013)

beewitched said:


> Did I hit a nerve by starting this thread or what!
> 
> No.... typical of a few members to point out each others erroneous use of the English language, grammer and vocabulary... Wait a minute is it grammer or grammar?


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## brunothefinn (Jun 16, 2014)

Betterbee otta send you a gift card for starting this thread. 
Love Bruce


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## LanduytG (Aug 29, 2013)

beewitched said:


> waynesgarden said:
> 
> 
> > Never thought I'd be recommending Betterbee again but they have reasonable shipping options. Their bee brush can ship for as little as $2.86. (USPS First-Class Mail -Parcel.)]
> ...


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## rolftonbees (Jul 10, 2014)

Its called fee avoidance. On websites where people pay percentages of sale price for items sold, disreputable sellers will hike up the cost of the shipping and handling so they can avoid paying fees on the selling price.

As far as shipping from China, I inadvertently purchased items directly from a Chinese seller on Ebay and the shipping for my brush was a fraction of that from China.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

LanduytG said:


> beewitched said:
> 
> 
> > On the other hand if they choose USPS I would have to take it to the post office because my mail carrier comes anytime between 9:30 and 3pm and you can never set your watch by them. I would say 50% of the time they are there by 11am but you cannot depend on it.
> ...


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## LanduytG (Aug 29, 2013)

Acebird said:


> Greg, you are not giving the USPS the same shake as you are private companies. My step daughter ships 300-400 packages in one day two or three times a week. She receives over 50 packages a week all from USPS. As you said it it the cheapest for small packages and she doesn't wait. She calls the PO and they send someone over with a truck just for her packages. In may be more than one trunk load. If you can commit they will respond. For her it is a major hassle to use Fedx or Brown.


In reality I just don't have enough going out USPS to worry about, average only 3 or 4 packages a day. For me UPS is the way to go. Been using them for 15 years and the same driver for the past 10 years. The way we have it setup just works. Seems like with the post office you get a carrier you can work with and they retire or move to a different route. I have had issues the past month when the get the package to the post office they scan it as being delivered instead of received. You can bet when that happens I will get a call or email from the customer about. Over all I have good luck with both carries and few issues, I just prefer brown at this time.

Greg


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

LanduytG said:


> Acebird said:
> 
> 
> > In reality I just don't have enough going out USPS to worry about, average only 3 or 4 packages a day.
> ...


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## LanduytG (Aug 29, 2013)

Acebird said:


> That is what I am talking about. Usually with Brown or Fedx you have to commit to a contract to get special treatment. And they are not located in all areas like USPS is. If you send something Brown or Fedx in a remote area "next day delivery" it might not get there for a week and it might show up by a USPS truck.


I don't have and never have had a contract with UPS. It cost me $11 a week for them to stop everyday. If I don't have over $100 in shipping for the week it cost me a few dollars more. I have never had a next day UPS not be there the next day. However when using USPS Express many times it will say not available or second day. I'm not USPS is bad I think you get a lot for the money but as a shipper I let UPS.

Greg


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## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

dingo983 said:


> If I am not making a large order, ebay is my go to place. Bee brush, $8.27, free shipping, U.S. seller.


I have found this to be true as well. Ebay rocks!


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

Fine a local art supply store and buy a dusting brush. 
https://www.google.com/search?q=dra...-US:official&tbm=shop&spd=6042754629576177651

This is not a counter brush but a single row of horse hair in a thin handle.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

And when it gets honey on the bristles?


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

Wash it just like you do the bee brush.


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## Santa Caras (Aug 14, 2013)

mjfranks said:


> And I know for a fact that many companies consider their shipping department a profit center.


We do. Cost + 20%


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## challenger (May 27, 2009)

Sorry about my assumption that you purchased the item in question. The title said "ripped off" which led me to believe that the deed was done.
Where is my crystal ball when I need it?


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## beewitched (Apr 15, 2014)

No prob Challenger - that was MY bad - not yours - shoulda worded it differently :thumbsup:


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

Turkey and goose season, I get bags full of bee brushes.


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## Jeffzhear (Dec 2, 2006)

The smart consumer considers the shipping cost vs the purchase price and finds the best bang for the buck. If you run your business and stick your customers with high priced shipping and handling, expect the outcome, higher immediate profit and quite possibly lower future sales. Sometimes those dumb consumers don't come back for a second screwing.


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

quality of packaging may be a factor, it is not free and for some reason, it gets figured in one way or another. the post office ,usps has great package materials. amazon's boxes are total garbage, they search the world over for cheap and shoddy.


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## MJuric (Jul 12, 2010)

*Supposing you were shipping a 10,000 dollar diamond ring to your girlfriend or wife. It is not the price of the item that determines the cost of shipping*

If I were shipping a 10K diamond I would also get 10K worth of insurance which would bump the price WAY up, so yes the price of the item does have bearing on the top side. I ship rather high value parts on a fairly regular basis. I've paid 300$ to get a small box to the customer in a day because it was 10K worth of stuff in a small box and needed to be there over night. The same thing overnight would have been ~50-60$ sans the insurance. 

So on the low end there is a "Minimum" charge and anything over 100-200$ depending on shipper you start paying more based on cost of the contents. 

~Matt


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## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

Mann Lake doesn't charge for shipping on most orders.


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## cryptobrian (Jan 22, 2012)

Mann Lake offers many products through Amazon which can also be shipped via Amazon Prime (i.e. 2-day, no charge). 

Unfortunately not everything is available through Amazon, like bee brushes. 

Though I did just notice another company, Vivotechnology, is offering a horse-hair brush via Prime. They appear to specialize in LCD screens, LCD mounts, Ghillie Suits, and a few beekeeping items ... for those folks that want to take care of their bees undetected while watching a movie.


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

dsegrest said:


> Mann Lake doesn't charge for shipping on most orders.


"Most orders over $100."

Wayne


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## MJuric (Jul 12, 2010)

*They appear to specialize in LCD screens, LCD mounts, Ghillie Suits, and a few beekeeping items ... for those folks that want to take care of their bees undetected while watching a movie. *

This is a bizarre trend I've seen over the last couple years. I can't remember exactly what I was looking for but ran into something similar like HD, Mother boards, video card...dehydrated Wanton soup mix!?

~Matt


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

> like HD, Mother boards, video card...dehydrated Wanton soup mix!?

'wanton soup mix' sounds *very interesting* and may fit very well with the rest of the products mentioned at that site. 'wonton soup mix', on the other hand, is really quite plain old _boring_.


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## challenger (May 27, 2009)

mathesonequip said:


> quality of packaging may be a factor, it is not free and for some reason, it gets figured in one way or another. the post office ,usps has great package materials. amazon's boxes are total garbage, they search the world over for cheap and shoddy.


I agree that Amazon boxes are on the cheap side but I have always found their packing to be more than adequate and in my experience their CS is outstanding. I received a tackle box today from Amazon. I priced online and fleabay was more and a few were unbelievably more for the same thing. After it came I opened it and there was a cracked corner. I went inside, got on their website, told of the problem, printed a return slip which was free of course, drove to a local UPS store during another errand, shipped it and came home. I opened my email and there is another on the way NEXT DAY!
That is service and I don't have to deal with problems from them ever.
Personally I hate using bee brushes. It is one of the few things I can use and be guaranteed to get stung. It pisses the bees of like nothing else that I know of and that has been every single time I used one. I really don't know why people have to brush bees anyway. When I used one I was new to this hobby and I was told, and read of course, that I need one so I got it. I tried a few others including a draftsmans brush which was soft horse hair and same thing. I washed it, same thing. I trimmed it close, same thing. I tried another type, same thing. So I did what most normal Americans so. I gave up. I don't miss my bee brush(s).
Oh-What was the question again?


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

I would never have thought that buying a single bee brush via mail would be a good idea. It is pretty much a guarantee that the shipping will hammer you. I do not agree that you where ripped of for something you did not buy. you simply did not like the price. why did you think you would?

I was reading this thread with my daughter. and her immediate response to me was I woudl kick her butt if I found out she placed an online order for just a bee brush. and she is right. I don't even have to look at the shipping. I know it would be through the roof. So are you a victim of shipping process. or are you a vicitm of your uniformed buying habits?

As for getting stung using a brush. It is technique. my daughter had the same problem when she first used one. now she is ultra pro. I can stand next to her in a t-shirt and not get stung. It's like blaming the bent nail on the hammer.

Lol, my daughter just told me she blames it on the wood.


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## IAmTheWaterbug (Jun 4, 2014)

LanduytG said:


> I ship USPS and UPS to my customers everyday. I can tell you why more businesses don't offer USPS is because its a hassle. I try to ship same day if the order is received prior to 3pm my time. If the customer chooses UPS their is usually know issue because my UPS driver picks up daily at 3:30pm and you can just about set your watch by it plus I don't have to take it anywhere.
> 
> On the other hand if they choose USPS I would have to take it to the post office because my mail carrier comes anytime between 9:30 and 3pm and you can never set your watch by them. I would say 50% of the time they are there by 11am but you cannot depend on it.
> 
> ...


I agree with pretty much everything you've said. Integrating UPS and Fedex with our order system was pretty simple, and it's free, including tech support when we need it. We had a UPS guy sit with us for 2 hours to do the ODBC mapping tables. We had Fedex deliver and install a new label printer when our old one failed to work after our Win7/64 upgrade. Free of charge.

With USPS the system integration just isn't there, unless you pay fees to a 3rd party, like Endicia. 

Worse, USPS's tracking is just awful. Most times it doesn't even work, showing no status whatsoever until the package is in my hands, by which time I no longer need a website to tell me where it is.

I've had many, many inbound packages listed as "delivered" by USPS when they were nowhere to be found, which caused me to file claims with the seller. Then, two weeks later, a dented box shows up on my doorstep with that same tracking number.

So you get what you pay for. We don't even offer USPS as an option because it would cause more problems than the few dollars it would save. Then again we sell higher-value stuff with an average order value >>$500, so charging a flat rate of $16 for UPS Ground in the 48 contiguous isn't a problem for my customers.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

To top it off you won't even use a bee brush very long, it just makes them mad. Shake the bees off the frame or use a feather


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