# Back Yar Queen Rearing with Limited Drones in Area



## Newfounland Jeff (Oct 14, 2010)

Hi All, 

I am new to this and I need input. I live in Newfoundland, Canada. I am trying to raise some queens to add to my colonies but I need drones. Other then myself the next nearest beekeeper is 60 miles away and there are no wild swarms to content with. I am 99.5% certain there are no other drones. I am trying to get some queens to mate locally but only the drones from my colonies are available for the drone source. Currently I am carrying 7 colonies and plan to add another 5 colonies this year. I can buy mated queens but i'm trying to hone my grafting skills. We were grafting 80 % last year but has marginal success with mating virgins. Some was inspecting the splits to early. The other factor may be the drones. 

I can graft from one colony or get larve from my friend that lives an hour away and stock several of my colonies with drone comb I have but will the virgin queens mate with the drones from my drone yard even though the drones are from different colonies. What can of success rate will I have from mating or what are my options to improve on this.

I understand that drones should be 5 - 6 miles away from the mating yard. If I spread my colonies all over the place I may increase my odds of mating but I will have issues as I will be driving all over the place. 

I plan to make some real strong colonies and allow them to go feral in hopes in the long term there will be some feral stocks to supply drones over the next few years.

Is there anything I can do or are there any suggestions? Thanks


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## JD's Bees (Nov 25, 2011)

Since you are so isolated you should be fine with all hives in the same yard. You can place drone colonies at four points 2 km away from your queen mating nucs to increase your chances.
The chances of a swarm surviving your winters is pretty slim, I would make splits or manage the colonies so they don't swarm and winter strong colonies.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I would bet there are many more colonies close enough to contribute drones, you are just not aware of them.


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## Newfounland Jeff (Oct 14, 2010)

Hi Mike, 

I really wish that were the case. Even the provincial government are only aware of a handful of beekeepers. They keepa list of all commerical and hobby beekeepers. We have a short intense summer with swarms usually occuring late June and early July making it tough for a swarm to overwinter. Beekeeping is not a common activity in Newfoundland and there are very few of us spread over great distances. I wish there was a feral drone source to use though and I have plans over the next couple of years to try to make some feral population.

Thanks for the responses everyone. any help is greatly appreciated.


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

Jeff, your isolation might be of benefit. If your bees are that isolated, then you should find it easier to maintain a strain of bees, like Buckfast, as you will have more control of the drone source. What are your floral sources for nectar out there?


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

You should do an experiment - put some queen cells in mating nucs, on all other hives put queen excluders between the bottom hive body and the bottom board, then see if the queens get mated. I bet they do. But if they don't you actually have a unique opportunity to control the genetics of your queens - for better or for worse.


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

Sounds like the perfect reason to invest in some Instrumental insemination equipment.


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## Newfounland Jeff (Oct 14, 2010)

Hi All, 

Thanks for the continued input. I live in Newfoundland Canada. Currently we do not have Varro or Trachea mite on the Island. But it could be only a matter of time before someone brings in a colony but since tthere are such few beekeepers there are few to no feral colonies and there have been no beekeepers in my area ever in the past.

The only person on the island making nucs is using Italian, Carnolian and some russian stock. She has a sister in Ontario that raised queens and brough some Russian eggs on the Island that was inspected by the provincial Apairist. 

Anyway I had a colony that swarmed last year and the vigin queen did mate but this year I plan to requeen a couple of colonies and make a few 5 - 6 splits so I want to make sure that I have adeuqate drone numbers for the queens to mate. I'm hoping to maximize my carnoilian stock as I'd like to have something that requires smaller numbers in the winter and explodes in summer as we have a slow spring tand no dearth during the summer.

I may be able to move a colony stacked with drone comb and move it further away from my house to get imporve mating. Also I live in a valley close to the ocean so I hope that if I movethis drone colony inland further there is a better chance that the virgin queens will mate as they fly up the valley into potential DCA's.

Any thoughts.

Also the person that makes nucs and mated queens now is over 300 miles away.


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## theriverhawk (Jun 5, 2009)

You can keep the new queens from being totally "inbred" by placing a queen excluder of sorts over the hive that you've taken the eggs from. This will keep the drones in also. That way, at least, you're guaranteed the mating drones are from another hive and not the egg donor hive. Some beekeeping supply places sell the front excluder. Here's a link to one. Seems well worth the $5.

http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/10-Frame-Entrance-Guard/productinfo/675/


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

It is hard for people from most places anymore to understand low population density areas. I have lived where you had to go 35 miles to get a jug of milk and I know in huge tracts of your country that might be a short trip! If your swarming season isn't til into June and July, there may not be drones available from your hives to mate the vigins. Now, at least one commercial queen rearer gets open mating with controlled drone stock off a large house boat parked out in the ocean by its lonesome. I am betting if you make sure you have plenty of drones that emerged a week or so before your virgins emerge and you get some flying weather in a couple weeks from the emergence of the queens, you will have mated queens. Look up the exact number of days for drones to become fertile after emerging and queens as well. Put those dates together and a sunny day!


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

I am of the opinion that queens don't fly so much further than needed to get mated. Why fly 3 or 4 or more miles to mate? So she won't mate with brothers? I don't believe it at all. 

Drones have been found over thirty miles away from their birthing colony, I've read, and it makes sense. Drones are accepted in strong colonies anywhere. It spreads the queens genes. 

I know a commercial beek that sets out several thousand mating nucs right in a DCA. Why would he do that if queens fly over 4 miles away to mate?

I've raised drone mother colonies right in my yard with the nucs. It was my only yard. When the nucs are setup and time for queens to fly, you should see the drones in front of the nucs, on the entrance boards. Queens didn't have to fly far, and seamed to mate fine. I'm not saying their weren't other colonies in the areas, but they did not have to fly so far if they didn't want to, and the drones were right there and interested.

So, I say make up a nice drone colony right there in your yard. When the drone cells are sealed, start your grafting and cell builders. The timing for correct aged drones for virgin flights will work that way. Order a queen from outside your yard to be the drone colony mother. What have you got to lose? What have you got to gain by trying? Best of luck to whatever course you take.


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## Newfounland Jeff (Oct 14, 2010)

I am not planning to graft until a week after I see purple eye drones. Also I currently have 6 frames in various colonies that have a half frame of plastic foundation and the remainder is drawn out drone comb. So there should be pretty good numbers from those other colonies versus the mating stock. Also I am using eggs/larve from one of my friends that has colonies that are 60+ miles away to help preserve genetic diversity. 

Eventually I plan to take some oversized plastic pots and try to make feral conlies out of them and hand them up in some trees in the woods in hope they swarm. I hope that if I give them significant feeding in the first year to draw the comb out the same as you would do with a split. Then,the hope is they wil make large enough swarms that they may overwinter and the original colony will survive. That way boosting a feral stock and hopefully through natural selection help get a bee that is good for our area.

I think the best stock for us to start with is carnolian as they have short seasons andneed to build fast. The much the same for us. As well some second and third generation Russian would be nice.

This is still way over my head. I need more practice.

Thanks again all.


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

I have an old beekeeping book in which the author participated in an experiment in Scotland. In addition to the queen cell each mating nuc was stocked with 100 drones of the desired stock. He claimed it worked and they got the results they hoped for.


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## Newfounland Jeff (Oct 14, 2010)

http://mudsongs.org/jeffs-splinter-colony/

Here's last years swarm I was talking about. This was fun to catch.


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

Jeff, I think your blog has been hijacked by "buy actos online", whatever that is. I clicked on July 2010 to see what summer looked like for Newfies and got random drug information.


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## Newfounland Jeff (Oct 14, 2010)

Interesting it should take to the swarm video of the swarm I had this summer.

I'll have to check that out and possily delete it if there is a problem.

THanks


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## Newfounland Jeff (Oct 14, 2010)

I checked the link and it takes to a fellow newfoundland beekeeper that discusses beekeeping in newfoundland. He lives 120 miles away and has 4 colonies. I carried a nuc in there last year to get mated and it did.


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

Jeff, weird. I went through the same links again and no strange drug info came up. I don't know what was going on.:scratch:


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## Mud Songs (Sep 30, 2010)

This is the second time I've heard about some kind of drug info showing up on a page from my blog. I haven't been able to replicate the problem myself, but I'll look into it.


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## Mud Songs (Sep 30, 2010)

Adrian Quiney WI said:


> I think your blog has been hijacked by "buy actos online", whatever that is. I clicked on July 2010 to see what summer looked like for Newfies and got random drug information.


What browser are you using?

(I'm also following your discussion with Jeff. I plan to get into queen rearing next year, after I see how Jeff does it.)


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## Newfounland Jeff (Oct 14, 2010)

Don't worry Phil, You'll have me as a reference and to learn from. ha ha.

I think I have discovered a place to put a drone colony 0.8 miles away up the vallay. I hope the queen will fly inland and up the valley. I donlt know if it the bees natural instinct but there is only one way to find out.


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

Phil, I am using my wife's mac book pro, and google chrome.


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## rmdial (Jun 30, 2009)

Been reading this post and need someone to clarify the theory of having drones so far away from virgins. If I get egg from one queen and drones from another, can't those virgins and drones then be in the same general location for mating flights? Sorry if I missed something but I have not heard of this issue before.

Thanks in advance.

Soapy


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## Newfounland Jeff (Oct 14, 2010)

In theory those virgin queens should mate but in my case there are no other colonies around so moving drone bees to a different location near by should improve mating. Or at least that is what it says in "Bee Sex Essentials". Maybe someone else can clarify this too.


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

Jeff maybe we'll get an expert to chime in but it might be a crap shoot. From what I've read here, and in books, the drones hang out in DCA's of their own choosing. How can you be sure that you are moving your drone colony 0.8 miles closer to one, or could you in fact be moving it 0.8 miles further away?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

The biology of the honey bee is such that the deck is stacked towards genetic diversity. It is only by grafting that we cut that in half, and by II that we cut it to nothing. Don't underestimate Nature.


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## OlofL (Jan 21, 2006)

Newfounland Jeff said:


> ...We were grafting 80 % last year but has marginal success with mating virgins...


Are you sure it isn't the weather that limits mating? I sometimes have cold and rainy weather for several weeks during the mating window which causes problems.


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## Newfounland Jeff (Oct 14, 2010)

That may have been the problem in early summer when we had our 12 capped queen cells. But a super seeded queen from last year did mate. She will be replaced this year if I do not like what I see.

Thanks for all the input everyone.


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