# When is a telescoping cover better than a migratory cover



## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

they are fine if ya don't move your hives. If you look at 100 hives a day that picking up of extra pieces is a real pain. the migratory cover is just plain cheap, light and simple.


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

For me, it's all about the weather. I do have a bunch of migratory covers that I use when transporting, etc. But, when I tried leaving them on all year I had problems, especially warping. For most of the year, they were fine but sitting snow and spring rains caused problems. I also have a bunch of homemade shims / inner covers that have vents cut into them. The telescoping covers give a little space (as you mentioned) for the vents to work. It's harder with the migratory covers although I could probably make them a little longer if I wanted to. If I lived in a different climate I might just use migratory all the time but here in NE, I've had better luck with inner / outer. BTW, my nucs have a migratory cover design that seems to work better than my 10 frame covers. Probably the smaller size makes them less prone to warping although the plywood ones still tend to de-laminate in the spring.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

My covers are made of exterior 3/4 plywood and covered with stick down roofing material. I don't think they would warp. Warping is a material selection. Heck you could use Trex decking. I am just wondering if the telescoping cover and inner cover was invented for the hobbyist that didn't know any better.


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## drlonzo (Apr 15, 2014)

Acebird said:


> I am just wondering if the telescoping cover and inner cover was invented for the hobbyist that didn't know any better.


I would have to think, NO. Migratory beekeeping wasn't a big thing in the US till after the 40's when mono crop farming took hold. Prior to then, most farms had a few hives here and there that took care of pollination and the need for honey.


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## Dave1958 (Mar 25, 2013)

The main purpose of an inner cover is so the bees don't glue the cover down where you cant pry it off


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

I agree fully with Dave. If you "don't" use an inner cover the bees seem to glue down a telescoping cover and it becomes much more difficult to remove than a migratory cover. If you "do" use an inner cover, the telescoping cover pops right off and then it's easy to pry up the inner cover with the hive too if they have glued it it down. You really notice a huge difference if you have a hive that leans toward a lot of propolis.


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## DPBsbees (Apr 14, 2011)

I use telescoping covers and custom made inner covers because I like to feed under the inner cover when needed and insulate in the winter. I don't move more than a few hives now and then so it doesn't matter except for the cost. I'm sure my bees are appreciating it with the weather we've had recently and is predicted soon.


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

The only at vantage I've seen with a telescoping cover is you can look down through the hole in the inner cover without breaking the seal in the winter. Other than that they just look pretty I run migratory on all but the one hive my kid won at beeschool


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## Bkwoodsbees (Feb 8, 2014)

I use both but scrapped the inner covers. Inner covers in areas with shb gives the shb a place to relax away from bees. Yes the bees glue telescoping covers down but not bad enough to be a problem. My migratory covers have a hole in center for feeding. I prefer telescoping covers.


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

I wish I could use telescoping lids.
I have no good scientific proof of this but I really think the bees winter better with them.
I switched from tele lids to migratory many years ago.
Thankfully, I hung onto the 70 sets of them and seem to use several every year when I run out of lids with the new increase behind the barn.
But once the season starts I have to swap them out.
Cooler in the summer, warmer in the winter, better moisture control,,,,man I like tele lids!
To bring the main problem into focus with commercial operations, here is an example;
At a glance, one would not think that the extra width and length of the outer cover would pose much of a problem when loaded on a truck.
Think again.
An average truck bed can hold 6 hives across the bed with migratory lids. (booming)
5 hives with telescoping.
For palatalized hives with telescoping lids, you may have to reduce by one row. That's brutal.

By the way, I just pulled a couple dozen telescoping lids off new hives behind the barn and fitted migratory lids for the trip to almonds.
Some of the best looking hives you could ever imagine.


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## adson (Nov 25, 2009)

If you are using a top hive feeder in the spring a migratory cover with any warp at all will let enough air out to cause a robbing problem. The problem is even worse with a nuc. Don't have that problem with a telescoping cover.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

For once I totally agree with Harry. Telescoping covers where invented long before migratory, and where the standard for many years. IF you do NOT have to move your hives, it is much easier to pail feed trough the inner cover, and the telescoping lid can be propped up in the front for ventilation, unlike a migratory lid. 

We have used telescoping lids exclusively once my Great Grandfather retired his peaked roofs in 1924.

Crazy Roland


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## Biermann (May 31, 2015)

Hi,

I use a telescopic cover with a heavy cotton cloth inner cover. Tele and inner have a hole in the center, the tele. with a stainless swing gate for fall feeding.

The bees create channels between the frames and inner cover, I call it the bee-subway and I believe it is the way the bees control traffic and temperature / humidity.

The tele sits tight, a rock can keep it down with ease and it always is properly aligned.

Why change?

Joerg


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

A migratory lid is best for migratory hives. Otherwise ... whatever suits your situation.


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

HarryVanderpool said:


> I wish I could use telescoping lids.
> I have no good scientific proof of this but I really think the bees winter better with them.
> I switched from tele lids to migratory many years ago.
> Thankfully, I hung onto the 70 sets of them and seem to use several every year when I run out of lids with the new increase behind the barn.
> ...


:applause:
This is the same way I see the issue. I think bees do better with inner + tele covers, but migratories are needed for transport. 

I think a hole in the top of migratory with inverted jar or a pail or can feeders are nice also, but that can be done over an inner cover as well, but it takes a box to them cover the feeder in order to get the tele cover back on in place.

I think the inner + Tele is better for top insulation, dead air space and ventilation, in both summer and winter.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

HarryVanderpool said:


> Cooler in the summer, warmer in the winter, better moisture control,,,,man I like tele lids!


Really? I didn't expect this as an advantage. Like warpage, material selection and construction should be able to eliminate these disadvantages for the migratory cover. I will keep these parameters in mind when I make one to try. Are there any other problems with the migratory cover that I should be aware of before I attempt my first one?



Mike Gillmore said:


> I agree fully with Dave. If you "don't" use an inner cover the bees seem to glue down a telescoping cover and it becomes much more difficult to remove than a migratory cover.


For sure Mike and Dave the telecover makes the requirement for an inner cover.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

What's wrong with the cover you already have? Is this just midWinter boredom?


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

" When is a telescoping cover better than a migratory cover"

When it's cold and raining.

I use inner covers with my migratory lids during summer, but get telescoping lids on before winter in my rainy climate. All tele lids have 1" insulation in them that stays in all year.











If I'm short telescoping lids, I insulate under the mig. lid with a simple frame stuffed with 1 1/2 insulation and cover with light insulation for a moisture barrier




























My home made tele. lids are deeper so I can get a full 1 1/2" insulation in them


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> What's wrong with the cover you already have? Is this just midWinter boredom?


Basically I have experienced a couple of problems.
1) I tend to lay the cover on the ground and set boxes in the cover when taking hives apart. That transfers wax and propolise to the cover. When it is put over the inner cover it glues the two together. I know I shouldn't do it but I have taken off covers expecting the inner cover to not open the whole hive and have gotten surprised. I haven't got stung doing this but it is a heck of an adrenaline rush.
2) I have built some boxes out of 5/4 stair treads with 1 1/4 corner blocks for butt joints. This makes the outside dimensions too big to get a commercial tele on so I made oversize covers. I still have the commercial tele and depending on what box goes on the hive I have to switch covers. If I get two hives with the oversize box on top I have a problem. This can happen at the end of the season when the hives are 6 or 7 boxes high and I am running out of choices.

A migratory type cover solves these problems for me.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Lauri said:


> All tele lids have 1" insulation in them that stays in all year.


This is what I was thinking for the migratory lid. I can always throw the 2 in foam on top like I do now if the 1 in is not good enough for winter. Winter is not my issue.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Acebird said:


> Basically I have experienced a couple of problems.
> 1) I tend to lay the cover on the ground and set boxes in the cover when taking hives apart. That transfers wax and propolise to the cover.


Change your procedure, then you'll experience a different outcome. I never set a hive body with bees in it down inside an inverted outer cover. Not only will you get wax and propolis all over it, you're likely to smash bees. By setting the hive body across the lid sides, you avoid all this.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Empty box first Barry. It has wax and propolise also. Besides once it is done it is done. I have tried to scrap it off and it doesn't work. I think the heat of the sun causes the goo to reattach.


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## Colobee (May 15, 2014)

A well built TC will have a deep enough rim to overlap the top super, and be "long" enough to slide forward & back a bit - to open or block a slot in the inner cover ( upper entrance). A brick or two on the top will then hold them on in very high winds. 1/2" of sheet insulation - sandwiched between the aluminum cover and inner hardboard - stays relatively warmer than the sides of the hive, deflecting frost buildup above the cluster in the winter. Mine are incredibly light, second only to the inner cover on a normal hive configuration.

I like both TC's & migratory - each has it's merits.


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## [email protected] (Aug 1, 2004)

Many years ago a better beekeeper than I taught me to throw out the inner covers and substitute plastic feed bags. The bees won't chew them nor glue them tight to the frames and they facilitate removing the telescoping cover. Cost about $1 each.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

I use an inner cover mine so I have room for protein patties spring and fall.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Acebird said:


> Basically I have experienced a couple of problems.
> 1) I tend to lay the cover on the ground and set boxes in the cover when taking hives apart. That transfers wax and propolise to the cover. When it is put over the inner cover it glues the two together.
> 
> 
> A migratory type cover solves these problems for me.


I see.

I think you are misdiagnosing something and that it is the bees propolizing the inner and telescoping lids together. Not the wax.

The standardizing of equipment can help alleviate future problems. Get rid of your over sized supers. Otherwise you are going to need three different covers for each hive. And maybe four. You will need a migratory cover for you big super and another one for your normal size super. And a telescoping cover for the normal size super, when it is on top.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

I could get rid of the one standard cover I have to solve the size problem but that doesn't solve the propolise problem on the other existing covers. So if I am going to build more covers I thought I would go for a migratory and eliminate the need of the inner cover. I might like it better.

Thinking about what Barry said about crushing bees and providing a notch for a vent the underside of the cover should also be made with a lip or shim if you will.

Mark, I have inner covers that don't have a hole in the center so there is no way the bees can propolise the covers together. It happens because the propolise got transfered to the underside of the cover and the top side of the inner cover. When assembled with a weight they stick together. The ones that have the hole in the center I can stick the bent angle of the hive tool in the hole and pry them apart. The solid inner covers is a different story and as you would expect the underside of the cover is covered with bees and some burr comb. I would expect that to happen also with a migratory cover and if it does I might take the suggestion of a feed bag. We go through 5 bags a month because of the chickens.


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## pink bee man (Feb 24, 2015)

HI I started back beekeeping about same time as U did it with my grand pa win I was just a boy back in late 60s win I seen bees were getting in trouble I started back wife was freaking out but settled down win she notiest that watching them come and go calmed her down; any way there were at least a million or prob.more around here and no stings it calmed down any way back to subject I use both I live in a valley by a river,I had to use a intercover with both becuse of moisture around here. So I guess it depends on were U R. pink bee man trying to keep the girls flying not diying!!!!!


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## RichardsonTX (Jul 3, 2011)

I like migratory covers because I move my hives around, my migrator lids come off easy, less parts laying around, and less cost but telescoping covers are better in my opinion because they provide better protection. The few telescopic covers I use are always on just like I left them and migratory covers sometimes move slightly to one side leaving the hive exposed a little. But, for the most part, migratory covers provide your hive with just as much cover as one box does on top of another. Actually better because they have lips on them. I've seen some folks just have a single 3/4" piece of MDO plywood for a lid with no lips or nothing. But they don't provide extra protection on the sides and are more apt to come off. 

I don't use an inner cover but I think it does protect them from some of the heat bearing onto the lid during summer and it protects them from condensation dripping down on them during the winter. It could also be used with a slot for a bee escape to fit into or as a feeder hole. 

But, if you plan to move your hives and the extra protection provided by the lips on all sides isn't important, I say just go with migratory covers.


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## jadebees (May 9, 2013)

Telesoping covers do not blow off in high winds, as easily. It really takes a gale force wind. The 3/8" edges on the inner cover prevents most of the topbars sticking to a roof. It is easy to feed thru an inner cover, and has room for pattys below. Migratory covers fit on a pallet, and strap together better if you move bees. Both have advantages, even hobby beeks have outyards. If its a travel lid, on a super, at an outyard, it doesnt matter. You will take it apart. I have a giant hive here that has not moved in three years. Its got a big telescoping roof with insulation and a metal top.


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## NewbeeInNH (Jul 10, 2012)

Agree, I like the winter weatherproofness of telescoping lids, and I like the upper entrances and sugar brick room of the inner covers. But next winter I plan on switching out the inner covers for 2" feeding shims with entrance, and a quilt box on top of that, and then the telescoping cover.

However, I really need migratory lids for my small hives/nucs-in-mediums next winter, so I can push them all together and help them stay warm, and wrap them as one unit. Guess they'll have to get bricks on top.


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## jadebees (May 9, 2013)

NewbeeinNH, what you describe is what all my Warre hives get. It is less effort. But often, I just use an extra Warre box, they're all the same size... from syrup to sugar block in Fall, its the same inner cover.You can leave the shim on if you put your winter sugar block in a tupoerware, gladware or similar little rectangle box. Just fill, and flip over. Then, cut a big piece of old comforter or sleeping bag, ((thrift store grade), big enough to cover edge to edge, lay it in the box right on the inner cover. Put on the quilt, and wait for spring. It's all removable and usable as normal, in the proper season because it was done with regular hive parts. If you always use the separate inner cover, the shim or box feeder works exactly the same, & you can put whatever you want above. Especially if you are doing all mediums, it just fits pint jar feedrs. Good luck, you still have some winter coming!


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

jadebees said:


> Telesoping covers do not blow off in high winds, as easily.


The lift generated by the Benoulli principal (some call it differential pressure) you and I might call it vacuum, is the same per square inch. A telescoping cover is bigger but slightly heavier so I think it is a wash. What makes the difference is whether the propolis has been broken from a recent manipulation and that is why you would weight the cover.


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## rosebee (Jul 1, 2015)

Has anyone used insulated telescoping top covers? The top of the hive would be insulated but not the sides. Are they worth it in comparison to non-insulated? What is your opinion? A local supplier in Birmingham, Alabama, has them and says the following: TT R-5 is an insulated telescoping metal topped cover for Langstroth hives. It's polystyrene core is encased in wood to protect it from bees and hive tools, while giving it over 5 times the R-value of a wood top alone. Conserving heat in cold winter months saves honey, and protects bees from starvation. It also reduces condensation on the inner cover by keeping it warmer than the walls. Water vapor tends to condense on the coldest surface it contacts first. Because the walls are only 3/4" wood they have an R-factor of about 1.0. The inner cover, the 1/2" of dead air space and the R-factor 5.0 telescoping cover provide a warmer surface on the top than the sides, resulting in much less condensation on it. The water that runs down the side walls is of no danger to the cluster, which it would be if it fell directly on them from above. http://greenbeehives.com/ttrintetop.html


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## BadBeeKeeper (Jan 24, 2015)

rosebee said:


> Has anyone used insulated telescoping top covers? The top of the hive would be insulated but not the sides. Are they worth it in comparison to non-insulated?]


I insulate all around, plus an insulated top cover. The top cover is over-size so that it fits down over the side jackets.


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

Acebird said:


> So why is the telescoping cover so popular among hobbyist?


 Chevy vs ford. Migratory is what the name says. Telescoping covers the hives dont sit next to each other so you can stack them on a truck. Migratory fits snug. I guess the tele keeps water out better but, I live in wet and I use migratory all year round. But, I do move them. What ever works for you I say.



jadebees said:


> Telesoping covers do not blow off in high winds, as easily. It really takes a gale force wind.


 Brick solves that problem.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

Lauri said:


>


_
(resurrecting an old thread)_ and going a little off topic . . . 

Lauri - how do you like that double-walled plastic sheet material for the top of your telescoping covers? Benefits? Detriments?



.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

shinbone said:


> _
> (resurrecting an old thread)_ and going a little off topic . . .
> 
> Lauri - how do you like that double-walled plastic sheet material for the top of your telescoping covers? Benefits? Detriments?
> ...


I like it. Easy to cut, easy to assemble, 100% waterproof, very durable. When I make telescoping covers, that is all I use. 
Twin or triple wall Polycarbonate Greenhouse covering material.

I usually have access to used sheets or scraps.


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