# Top Box almost full - should I move a comb or two to the bottom box?



## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Is it foundationless, or has comb foundation?


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## thehackleguy (Jul 29, 2014)

Foundationless, just top bars.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

In that case as long as there are enough bees to cover everything, yes you could move a couple frames, or top bars, down. 

The empty ones you move up to take their place should go in the middle but with a drawn comb between them. Long as there are enough bees plus some nectar coming in they will draw them, and you can continue exchanging frames to move things along.


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## thehackleguy (Jul 29, 2014)

Thanks!


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Just don't spread things too much and allow brood to get chilled.


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## thehackleguy (Jul 29, 2014)

This is a pic I took last Sunday, the comb and walls are covered with bees. I'll look again this weekend and decide if I think I can move some.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Good pic. Looking at it, the safest plan would be move the two outside combs to the bottom box & put them in the middle, so you don't have brood where the bees will struggle to keep it warm. There are enough bees that you could put the two empty bars that get moved up in the middle, with a comb between.

It may be a while after that till you can do any more spreading as the bees will only just have started getting hatching brood, that's assuming they came with a laying queen not a virgin. It's about this time also that a new swarm slows down noticeably on the comb building urge.


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## thehackleguy (Jul 29, 2014)

Great info, thanks. I want to encourage them to expand without hurting their chances to go through the winter. That said, if they don't make it at least I'll have a bee friendly (lived in) hive to start out with in the spring.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Yes well I think encouraging them to expand is the right course at this point because they need sufficient comb to be viable plus store enough food to get them through winter. Don't know flow patterns etc where you are but with winter approaching, getting enough food into them will be the major consideration.


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

"Would it work to take two bars of comb from the top box and place them in the bottom or should I just let them draw out the bottom box when they are ready?"
What do the Warre top bars in your bottom box look like? How are they spaced or built in order to allow the bees from the top box to move back and forth between boxes?


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## thehackleguy (Jul 29, 2014)

Riverderwent said:


> "Would it work to take two bars of comb from the top box and place them in the bottom or should I just let them draw out the bottom box when they are ready?"
> What do the Warre top bars in your bottom box look like? How are they spaced or built in order to allow the bees from the top box to move back and forth between boxes?


They are set up exactly as the bars above them. They have the comb in the middle of the top box built down almost to the top bars of the second box. I just built it to plans, so the bars are directly below (same orientation) and the bars in the box above them.


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

thehackleguy said:


> They are set up exactly as the bars above them. They have the comb in the middle of the top box built down almost to the top bars of the second box. I just built it to plans, so the bars are directly below (same orientation) and the bars in the box above them.


I think that it would be better to let them figure it out themselves unless you are concerned that they may not be locally acclimated. Since they are from a swarm, and given your location, they are likely from a strain reasonably suited to your latitude. Though, moving a frame or two from the margins probably would not cause a problem. (You've got this. Trust your bees and yourself.)


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## thehackleguy (Jul 29, 2014)

*Update:* Last week Friday, I checked the hive and decided to move one comb from the outside down to the middle of the bottom box. It was in the evening and there were bees filling the top box and bearding off of the top bars in the bottom box. Looked to me like there were plenty of bees to cover at least one comb in the bottom box. 

I checked again last night. The empty top bar that I placed in the top is mostly drawn and there are two new combs in the bottom box that are about 1/2 drawn next to the one I moved from the top box. 

At this point I'm starting to think they may actually make it through the winter.....but I'm not holding my breath. I tend to have low expectations, then I find I'm pleasantly surprised more often


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Nice work! 

Don't know what sort of nectar is available where you are but to get through winter they will need enough food stores. It's getting late in the season and if they don't have time to get enough you may have to help them out with some sugar.

But there are many opinions about feeding sugar, so over to you.


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## thehackleguy (Jul 29, 2014)

Checked today and they have filled half of the bottom box and covered with A LOT of bees. Shouldn't the be slowing down??


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

They slow down when the food supply stops. If they don't yet have enough food stored to get them through winter you'll want them to keep going for now & get enough stored. If there is empty frames in the bottom box you could keep feeding them gradually into the top box among drawn combs to try & get as much comb drawn as possible before winter, bearing in mind they will only draw it if nectar is coming in or they are being fed.


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## thehackleguy (Jul 29, 2014)

I've been relatively comfortable with them up to now, but when I saw how many there were I started thinking about adding another box. Here are some pics of the bottom box that I moved a frame of comb into 4 weeks ago:


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

3 boxes is a pretty common configuration for wintering a warre. They don't look like they have a lot of stores.


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## thehackleguy (Jul 29, 2014)

I didn't break apart any of the bars in the top box to check for stores, the weather is getting cooler at night so I didn't want to chance chilling any brood that might be there. I did have one comb in the bottom that looked like capped honey, I am also feeding 2:1 right now. I think I'll put another box on just so they have more space.


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## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)

As I said in the other forum: no, better don't add another box! And as Oldtimer says: (and I did so in the other forum, too) Feed! They need food. You prepare to add fondant to the top.


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## thehackleguy (Jul 29, 2014)

BernhardHeuvel said:


> As I said in the other forum: no, better don't add another box! And as Oldtimer says: (and I did so in the other forum, too) Feed! They need food. You prepare to add fondant to the top.


Great, thanks. I had not checked back on the other forum yet :thumbsup:


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## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)

I described the method of putting fondant on the hives here: http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...ng-in-warr%E9-hive-help&p=1151764#post1151764

You can winter bees with no stores at all with this method but you need to monitor the hives closely for replacement of the fondant if empty.


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## thehackleguy (Jul 29, 2014)

Thank you.


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