# Almond Pollination Factoid



## naturebee (Dec 25, 2004)

http://nebraskafarmer.com/index.aspx?ascxid=fpStory&fpsid=35202&fpstid=2

"Last year was the first time in U.S. history that beekeepers earned more income from moving their hives to California to pollinate almonds than from all the honey produced in the U.S." 

Joe
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/HistoricalHoneybeeArticles/


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

2000 hives to Calf @ 140 ea = $280,000. Minus 2000x $8 for yard in Calf. $16,000 Minus 2 pattie feedings @ 2 bucks ea $4000. Minus trucking 500 hives per truck @ 6k per load. equals $24,000. Shipping back 24k again. Misc. expeses...preps treatments, etc. another 4k. So total profit is about $208,000 or just a little over 100 bucks a hive. 

2000 hives produced 110 lbs average @ 1.35 per lb last year $297,000 minus about 65k in operating expenses $232,000.

It's close, but honey is still the main money maker...as far as I can tell. It may be different for others.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

alpha6 said:


> Minus 2 pattie feedings @ 2 bucks ea .


Alpha are those one or two pound patties?


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

*Almond pollination*

Sure looks good on paper!


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## Jeffzhear (Dec 2, 2006)

A factoid is inaccurate or unverified information. I wonder if it's really true.


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

Keith,

I don't know I wasn't there....hmmmm you may be onto something.

Family vacation to Calf to check out the status of the hives...8k.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

alpha6 said:


> Family vacation to Calf to check out the status of the hives...8k.


Well, we sell it out here per mixed.  if you ever need any out in Calif


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

I don't know Keith...I need strong hives. What do you put in your Aunt Jamima patties anyway?


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## naturebee (Dec 25, 2004)

Jeffzhear said:


> A factoid is inaccurate or unverified information. I wonder if it's really true.


I tend to stick with creditable sources when posting material, and I did with this post also.

A good way to find out is to ‘read the article‘, and we find that:
It is a quote from:
Dr. Marion Ellis, University of Nebraska-Lincoln entomologist.
http://entomology.unl.edu/faculty/ellis.shtml

Joe


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

The problem is that in the article they didn't post anything regarding how they obtained the information regarding to "Last year was the first time in U.S. history that beekeepers earned more income from moving their hives to California to pollinate almonds than from all the honey produced in the U.S." 

No facts to back it up. I personally would like to know how they came to that conclusion. One possible way was to calculate the total number of hives that were used in Calf. and the total poundage of honey. But that wouldn't give an accurate total either because I know many comm. beeks that sell up to 5% of their honey retail and not wholesale so you would have to figure that in.

I am sure that Dr. Ellis is a fine person with outstanding credentials but the article still does not give any information to support this conclusion...not to say it doesn't exist, just that its not in the article so I can see where Jeffzhear is coming from.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

alpha6 said:


> I don't know Keith...I need strong hives. What do you put in your Aunt Jamima patties anyway?


Well these craby patties have had some benefits. 


.http://s148.photobucket.com/albums/s35/CNHoney/?action=view&current=100_1432.jpg


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

alpha6 said:


> 2000 hives to Calf @ 140 ea = $280,000. Minus 2000x $8 for yard in Calf. $16,000 Minus 2 pattie feedings @ 2 bucks ea $4000. Minus trucking 500 hives per truck @ 6k per load. equals $24,000. Shipping back 24k again. Misc. expeses...preps treatments, etc. another 4k. So total profit is about $208,000 or just a little over 100 bucks a hive.
> 
> 2000 hives produced 110 lbs average @ 1.35 per lb last year $297,000 minus about 65k in operating expenses $232,000.
> 
> It's close, but honey is still the main money maker...as far as I can tell. It may be different for others.


Those figures do not include hive losses from the trip out in the fall and over wintering. It also does not include losses from inspectors from the orchard demanding you combine 2 or 3 together to get a minimum 6 to 8 to 10 frames of bees per hive in order for them to pay you for the service. And don't forget hive losses do to the trip back home. And, honey from almonds is bitter so no income from that at all, but what you do get is hive build up from the nectar and pollen.


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## naturebee (Dec 25, 2004)

alpha6 said:


> The problem is that in the article they didn't post anything regarding how they obtained the information regarding to "Last year was the first time in U.S. history that beekeepers earned more income from moving their hives to California to pollinate almonds than from all the honey produced in the U.S."





alpha6 said:


> But that wouldn't give an accurate total either because I know many comm. beeks that sell up to 5% of their honey retail and not wholesale so you would have to figure that in.


Interesting comment, however I do not believe anything you say because you do NOT post anyting about how you obtained that information, especially the 5% comment. WE NEED FACTS AND FIGURES!!! Where did you get the 5% figure? 



alpha6 said:


> I am sure that Dr. Ellis is a fine person with outstanding credentials


I agree, and if you choose not to believe something Dr. Ellis says, then that’s your choice.

Joe


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## florida pollinator (Jul 31, 2006)

If anything Nature your figure for costs of a cali trip are to low,so the cali profit would not be nearly as good as the honey.
It took us a more than a tanker load of feed,plus new pallets ,because of the rules ,countless hours painting boxes, putting bee pallets on top of freight pallets to keep them clean, and away from "rifa" fire ants,and did i say countless hours and weeks of work in a period that would normaly be our relax before the run for the money honey season and other pollination.
To top it all off, a buddy here, with about the same number of bees made a citrus honey crop which was about the same as my gross almond money.
The only plus is when or if honey prices go back in the toilet, the pollination is steady, it was a very high stress time, but I will most likely do it again, but I have really ask myself if it's worth it, hey but the boxes look better and we're already ahead with new pallets this year.
Yep alot of bees went out to the land of fruits and nuts but it's not easy money by no means, as for the statement of almonds vs honey production, I don't know if I so sure about that.


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

*pollination*

From what little I've seen it is safe to say that cash flow from pollination is more reliable than nectar flows for honey production.


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## Aspera (Aug 1, 2005)

alpha6 said:


> No facts to back it up. I personally would like to know how they came to that conclusion. One possible way was to calculate the total number of hives that were used in Calf. and the total poundage of honey. .


 I think that its an updated version of "1/3 of our food supply is due to beekeepers".
Honey is money and not because its sweet....because people have a collective system of beliefs formed long before we learned how to make HFCS. I'm not a commercial beek, but this is my thought on the matter, and I have participated in the good/bad/ugly of central CA.


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## TwT (Aug 5, 2004)

well after reading this I am sure if pollination is not number 1 now it will be in the future, honey prices has stayed stable for years and with the big payout of almonds seems more will leave the honey part for the big money, price of honey hasn't gone up like everything else, and with CCD and other problems killing bee's it looks like prices for almond pollination might keep going up just like acreage of almond lands growing every year, look at this below

http://www.bluediamond.com/news/2008JulyPresRpt.html


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

TWT,

what I saw on your link was, crop yield harvested or estimates.

What determines hives counts is bearing acreage.


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

Keith is right. Additionally, from what I have read is that Calf. Beeks are increasing their hives to use in Pollination and as this happens and they are better able to meet the demand they will be pushing for legislation to limit the number of out of state hives. Not saying this will happen, but I can foresee something like this occurring in the future...so don't get rid of your honey houses yet.


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

Honey was still our primary income this year but only due to the current high price of honey. If wholesale honey prices fall back to previous levels and pollination fees stay the same, pollination will be the majority by a good margin. 
I suspect any figures showing more money in pollination are mostly reflective of the short crop last year and would be much more telling if honey prices weren't so high now.

As for the lists of pros and cons, for those in the far south you may be giving up some honey to go to almonds but for northern beeks that is not the case. In fact we may actually be gaining honey as they do often make some almond honey. While that is bitter honey and we don't extract it, the bees like it just fine. And their strength coming back is such they can make better use of early nectar flows in Wisconsin. Also, while there may be hive losses due to combining and travel to California, there are normally winter losses due to harsh northern conditions. Our California losses are equal or _less_ than our Wisconsin losses were, even after consolidation, and the strength of the bees coming back has easily made up for that. The majority come home ready to rock. Of course being so strong so early is a mixed blessing as it is tough keeping ahead of them in the spring; swarming is a bigger problem. Also, big colonies in a cold late spring such as we had this last year in Wisconsin might need more feed than if they were more in tune size wise with that time of year in Wisconsin. 

Additional feed is probably not too much of a factor as we would have needed to feed them more heavily for our cold winter. Additional pollen sub would be beneficial in Wisconsin as well, especially in years when the flow stops early due to drought or cold or rain as has been the case several years in a row, but we do give them more sub in California to keep them broody. The additional labor *is* a biggee, putting that feed and sub on in California and consolidating for strength. As someone already mentioned, we used to have a slower, more relaxed winter time. We took this time to repair/build equipment, relax a little and get psyched up for spring bee work. None of that anymore, it is pretty much a year round enterprise now. The travel back and forth and meals and lodging while out there is a large expense as well. But the largest single expense is shipping those truckloads out there, especially with high diesel prices.
Finally, what price does one give the huge risk of taking bees out there? One should not take this risk lightly. We have all heard the nightmare stories and I have seen a couple first hand. If you don't know what you are doing, or if the market changes suddenly or if your bees aren't healthy or if you are just plain unlucky, you could loose a bundle of money, plus your bees, _plus_ the ability to make up your losses. It is a high stakes gamble.
Sheri


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

Well said Sheri.


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## TwT (Aug 5, 2004)

Keith Jarrett said:


> TWT,
> 
> what I saw on your link was, crop yield harvested or estimates.
> 
> What determines hives counts is bearing acreage.



yeah thats what I was getting at, it is a none fact that almond acreage grows every year and looks to continue for a while. Question on the local hive numbers this past year if locals are expanding, what is the percentage of local pollinators vs out of state pollinators in the almond fields? does anyone know? and how much has it change in the last 4-5 years since the high dollar for pollination has risen? is there any way to find this out?


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