# This year's Odfrank Swarm Trap Models - 2013 year model #1



## odfrank

Having passed through my five frame nuc box phase, my winebox phase, my Styrofoam fish box phase, my packing crate phase, my eight frame phase....I am now trying to get back to the basics. My goals this year are:
Make no superfluous equipment. I have enough five frame nuc boxes and they are to small for bait hives, but work adequately. 
Make traps big enough to include some foundation to draw to eliminate the need to service soon after catching, and use a swarm's ability to draw comb. 
Make them bee tight, for easy no beesuit moving.
Make them bee tight enough that my non beekeeper friend can move them.
Make them light enough that I can move them. 
Make them a good value for expanding my apiary with minimal specialized investment. 
Make them the same green color that makes Charlie B sick to his stomach.:thumbsup::lpf:

All of this years models are made from budget grade deep boxes. Model # 1 has a steel entrance disk for easy closure. It has a 1/4" thick luan top and bottom to minimize it's weight. The bottoms are screwed on, the tops will probably be also, but duct tape or straps might be used on other models. I will probably transfer the bees into plain boxes, but I can easily remove the bottoms and just place the box on a bottom with a good top. The inside will get an area treated with a slurry of wax, propolis and LGO spread around with my heat gun or painted on from a hot pot full of brew. Stay tuned for Model 2 and 3.


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## WWW

Nice boxes Olly, I think the military olive drab paint should really impress Charlie :thumbsup:.


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## Dconrad

odfrank said:


> A The inside will get an area treated with a slurry of wax, propolis and LGO spread around with my heat gun or painted on from a hot pot full of brew.
> 
> 
> 
> would you share your recipe for the slurry.
> 
> 
> Thanks Don....


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## odfrank

Just that simple, I spread a patch of melted hive scrappings inside the brand new box to imitate instant aging, and sometimes melt a drop or two of LGO in with it.


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## Jayoung21

Why would a 5 frame nuc be too small? Is it that they wont occupy it or is it that they build up and get crowded too quick? I just put up 5 5 frame deep traps up this past weekend. I put med frames w/ used plastic foundation (moving to all med this year), a swarm lure from mann lake and a little lgo around the entrance. I plan to cut off any burr comb that i know will be on the bottom of the frames.


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## Rader Sidetrack

jayoung21 said:


> Why would a 5 frame nuc be too small?


I have seen studies that determined approximately 40 liters (10 gallons) was the *optimum *volume for a trap. But, experience shows that swarms move into a variety of different sizes of boxes. Use what you have available. 


Here's one reference, although it talks about a *range *of sizes:
http://naldc.nal.usda.gov/download/13794/PDF

In any case, I credit Ollie's frequent posts about his swarm traps (last year) for getting this then new beek to think that maybe even I could trap a swarm.  And I built and placed 5 traps (about 8 gallons) on mine and my neighbor's properties. I was very pleased to actually a catch a swarm two weeks after I hived my two packages. Thanks Ollie! :thumbsup:


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## DRAKOS

<<experience shows that swarms move into a variety of different sizes of boxes>>
That is correct, but if they have to choose, they will go for the 40 litter volume.


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## Charlie B

I have to admit I'm very impressed. I think these will be on the "must have" list for the season!

Where do you get those entrance wheels?


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## Mr.Beeman

http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/Nuc-Disc-Entrance/productinfo/676DE/


http://www.centralbeekeeperssupply.com/Product pages/hive components/metal entrance disc.html


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## urbanoutlaw

Kelley has a few cheaper options (use the drop down box to select):

https://kelleybees.com/Products/Detail/?id=3336333633303339&grouped=1


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## KQ6AR

Nice, according to Tom Seeley a ten frame deep is a size the bees like, smaller sizes they might pass up.
We're in trouble this in this years challenge.


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## odfrank

>Why would a 5 frame nuc be too small?
Immense swarms will pass them up.

>Thanks Ollie! :thumbsup:
You are welcome. 

>Where do you get those entrance wheels?
Mine are from Kelley. 

>We're in trouble this in this years challenge.
You guys never had a chance from the beginning.

Why five frame nucs are too small:


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## odfrank

Here is Model #2. I ran out of thin paneling but have a lot of 3/4" plywood. Model #2 has an entry slot cut into the plywood bottom board that will be shut with a wedge of window screen for moving. It will be heavier with a top and bottom of 3/4" plywood. This model leaves the deep super unmodified, with no expense for the entry disc. And good news for Charlie, I used up all my green paint.


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## minz

Are they all numbered 15-32? Did you use a router to do the number? 
Do you still only put in one frame of brood?
I am getting ready to build some more but I was going to do the ‘bushkill swarm trap #2’ again this year. I did end up leaving some bees behind on one of the swarms but the other one was only a couple of cups of bees (both of them are still alive). I went 2/5 managed and one extra I gave a guy to take home.


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## odfrank

It is a state registered apiary brand number. 
I do not use brood, I use black comb.


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## tefer2

I run those same Kelley metal entrance disc. If you leave the wingnut loose, they will rotate closed on their own. I now place my holes at the top of the disk for that reason.


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## odfrank

tefer2 said:


> I run those same Kelley metal entrance disc. If you leave the wingnut loose, they will rotate closed on their own. I now place my holes at the top of the disk for that reason.


That is a fact. If the hole is on the bottom make sure the nut is oh so tight. It took one huge swarm smothered to teach me that lesson. I should experiment with some kind of tightener washer. I prefer the entrance on the bottom, old habits are hard to give up.


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## Charlie B

odfrank said:


> old habits are hard to give up.


Key word: Old


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## Jayoung21

I would think a simple lockwasher would do the trick in keeping the wheel tight. Those are some good lookin traps Ollie, I think i may make up some more that are similar once i hang up the ones I have. Going to try my hand at the swarm catching challenge this year


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## shannonswyatt

odfrank said:


> It is a state registered apiary brand number.


Does everyone have to do this, or only the commercial folks?


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## Mr.Beeman

A fiber or flat steel washer under the wingnut will allieviate the the turning problem of the steel entrance disc. If you want to go all out, a flat rubber washer then a stainless steel washer under the wingnut.


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## odfrank

shannonswyatt said:


> Does everyone have to do this, or only the commercial folks?


No one has to do it. It is just more traceable than a name.


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## shannonswyatt

Gotch, does everyone have to be state registered?


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## tefer2

Makes no difference what kind of washer you use, when you forget to tighten the wing nut!


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## odfrank

shannonswyatt said:


> Gotch, does everyone have to be state registered?


It is an old un-enforced law. If you went down to my county ag to register they probably wouldn't know what you were talking about. I did it way back in 1977? so I could brand my boxes with a good identifier. Again, I don't know if in this era anybody would know what the numbers mean.


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## Mbeck

Nice work!
I can't catch a swarm to save my life. Is there any chance of that Charlie could teach some beekeeping classes locally?
Your state # is so much simpler than the 47 letter and number monstrosity that Fl requires on boxes here!


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## Mr.Beeman

So true tefer2. lol


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## PAHunter62

tefer2 said:


> I run those same Kelley metal entrance disc. If you leave the wingnut loose, they will rotate closed on their own. I now place my holes at the top of the disk for that reason.


A push pin through one of the small holes would resolve that issue altogether.


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## KQ6AR

We registered at CCC Ag. they didn't give us a # but knew all about registering. They also give out the certs so you can sell honey at farmers markets.
One of the people I spoke to in there used to be a bee inspector, another gal inspects loads of hives when they come in for almonds.



odfrank said:


> It is an old un-enforced law. If you went down to my county ag to register they probably wouldn't know what you were talking about. I did it way back in 1977? so I could brand my boxes with a good identifier. Again, I don't know if in this era anybody would know what the numbers mean.


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## odfrank

PAHunter62 said:


> A push pin through one of the small holes would resolve that issue altogether.


Maybe some kind of rubber washer on top of the disk with a steel washer on top of it and then the wing nut. The last few I opened I had my spray bottle with me and soaked the bees that rushed out so I could tighten the nut well. Once you smother a catch you learn to check them for tightness.


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## Mr.Beeman

Darn good idea frank!


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## mtndewluvr

Well, odfrank...I was wonderng why you were giving another guy so much crap, a month or two ago, about his "home made" traps. It all makes much more sense now that you've turned over a new leaf! Nice boxes...looking forward to the challenge this year!


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## odfrank

mtndewluvr said:


> Well, odfrank...I was wonderng why you were giving another guy so much crap, a month or two ago, about his "home made" traps. !


I DID THAT??? I feel terrible about that. Give me a link so I can apologize. I am trying to turn over a new leaf and be the kind, understanding, helpful odfrank. Not that old grump from the past. Charlie has really been helpful in helping me find my inner self.


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## Charlie B

mtndewluvr said:


> Well, odfrank...I was wonderng why you were giving another guy so much crap, a month or two ago, about his "home made" traps. It all makes much more sense now that you've turned over a new leaf!


I've been working with Olly for a while now and I think I'm beginning to make an impression.


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## mtndewluvr

Ohmygosh...never change! I was just puzzled why you were promoting unifom hives back then when we had all seen what you had been having so much success with the last couple of years.


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## Dconrad

my traps are not as fancy as odfrank I do like his design very much, I think the next batch that I make I will be borrowing his design. :thumbsup:


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## odfrank

Charlie is not going to approve of that color scheme.


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## bevy's honeybees

Mbeck said:


> Nice work!
> I can't catch a swarm to save my life. Is there any chance of that Charlie could teach some beekeeping classes locally?
> QUOTE]
> 
> MBeck, you should have no trouble catching swarms, you are in Florida. Last year I caught 5 swarms, learned how right here from Odfrank, Charlie, Michael Bush.
> 
> I put out 6 bait boxes last year and caught 5 nice swarms. Got surplus honey off 3 of them in fall. The only box that didn't get a swarm is because it was past swarm season by then.
> 
> I'm going to start putting out bait boxes by next week. Last year I caught my first 2 in early March, but there are bees swarming in Northern Florida now so I will start earlier this year.


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## Dconrad

odfrank said:


> Charlie is not going to approve of that color scheme.


would he aprove if I did a little camo work on them


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## odfrank

No, don't change them just for Charlie, he has warped taste in colors. They look just fine to me, will blend in to the foliage just fine.
What is the green closure square made of? Do you have ventilation if you move them on a hot night? I have to look for some hard, flat, thick, plastic screen with which to make similar closures.
A closeup picture of those would be nice.


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## Charlie B

Actually, I'm taking a liking to the .50 cal ammo box color. If you don't catch any swarms, you could rent those to Spielburg as props for his next WWII movie!


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## Lburou

Charlie B said:


> ...snip...Where do you get those entrance wheels?


They are available on ebay by the dozen at a competitive price.


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## Specialkayme

Lburou said:


> ebay by the dozen


Nice, but made of plastic. I've used plastic disks before, and depending on the type of plastic, the UV rays can really destroy them after a season or two.


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## Lburou

odfrank said:


> Having passed through my five frame nuc box phase, my winebox phase, my Styrofoam fish box phase, my packing crate phase, my eight frame phase....I am now trying to get back to the basics. My goals this year are:
> Make no superfluous equipment. I have enough five frame nuc boxes and they are to small for bait hives, but work adequately.
> Make traps big enough to include some foundation to draw to eliminate the need to service soon after catching, and use a swarm's ability to draw comb.
> Make them bee tight, for easy no beesuit moving.
> Make them bee tight enough that my non beekeeper friend can move them.
> Make them light enough that I can move them.
> Make them a good value for expanding my apiary with minimal specialized investment.
> Make them the same green color that makes Charlie B sick to his stomach.:thumbsup::lpf:


I'm sure glad you have gone through all this before and are happy to share your discarded designs...that enables us to adopt your best strategies. It has been helpful to me and I appreciate it. I was about to order some kind of lure for my bait hives, I guess I'll try the odfrank concoction or at least the ingredients I have on hand. Thanks


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## Dconrad

odfrank said:


> No, don't change them just for Charlie, he has warped taste in colors. They look just fine to me, will blend in to the foliage just fine.
> What is the green closure square made of? Do you have ventilation if you move them on a hot night? I have to look for some hard, flat, thick, plastic screen with which to make similar closures.
> A closeup picture of those would be nice.


yes they have a 1" screened vent on top back of the box, thought about cutting a 3" whole in the bottom also


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## Gypsi

I have an apiary brand number. Need to get it on my boxes.

Now I want to know, having tried to remove the screwed on plywood bottom board with a swarm in one of my traps, how is the easy removal process when there are bees in that hive? I ended up removing the frames and dealing with it later. 

I'm sticking with my plastic needlework screens, tomato paste lids and a single screw to rotate, placed below the opening. With a total equipment cost for the closure at 38 cents for a needlework screen, I have more cash to buy sugar to feed them, lol.

Gypsi


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## odfrank

My plan was to tip them on end and take my battery drill to move the screws.


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## odfrank

Charlie, could you please broach the smeared paint on the entrances with Mr. Conrad? I don't know how to go about it without maybe upsetting him.


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## shannonswyatt

odfrank said:


> Charlie, could you please broach the smeared paint on the entrances with Mr. Conrad? I don't know how to go about it without maybe upsetting him.


Neatness counts!


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## Dconrad

odfrank said:


> Charlie, could you please broach the smeared paint on the entrances with Mr. Conrad? I don't know how to go about it without maybe upsetting him.




LOL ........ I would not be upset at all ........ but I would not take it up with the woman that painted then  and I am sure not going to criticize or turn down the free help when my wife helps me out. :no:


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## Charlie B

Good one Olly, just insult the mans wife why don't you!


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## bhfury

Here's what mine look like.


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## Lburou

odfrank said:


> ...snip...The inside will get an area treated with a slurry of wax, propolis and LGO spread around with my heat gun or painted on from a hot pot full of brew.


I have a question along this line for inoculating the hive with smells the bees like. Last night I dipped some plastic frames in hot wax which was floating on water. This morning the remaining water smelled like the wax and hive. I went ahead and poured that water into my bait hives, sloshed it around on all sides and poured it out. I doubt it will hurt anything, but hopefully, may have left some attractive scents. Will still put some slurry in there too. Any thoughts?


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## odfrank

bhfury said:


> Here's what mine look like.


How about bigger pictures so we can tell what you have done?


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## odfrank

Wax soup, sounds fine to me.


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## bhfury

odfrank said:


> How about bigger pictures so we can tell what you have done?


You should be able to click on it to make it bigger. You probably can't see it since I did such a great camo job.


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## shannonswyatt

BHFury, is that 1/2 inch hardware fabric on the inside of the entrance? Incredible camo, is that really necessary?


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## Charlie B

shannonswyatt said:


> BHFury, Incredible camo, is that really necessary?


It is when you set your traps by other beekeepers hives!


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## bhfury

shannonswyatt said:


> BHFury, is that 1/2 inch hardware fabric on the inside of the entrance? Incredible camo, is that really necessary?


Yep 1/2".... The camo is really important... I don't want Oliver to find my traps...  Never know when he will be passing through New Mexico!!


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## Charlie B

Olly's as blind as bat so you don't need to worry. That' why he has Scut do all his dirty work.


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## shannonswyatt

I don't know that I would want them that camo'ed up. I would probably not be able to find them after I put them in place!


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## bhfury

shannonswyatt said:


> I don't know that I would want them that camo'ed up. I would probably not be able to find them after I put them in place!


GPS way points


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## odfrank

I trap swarms, I don't steal swarm traps. With that fancy camo, you just have too much time on your hands. Quit ignoring Wotsee and take her to the park or zoo or something.


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## bhfury

odfrank said:


> I trap swarms, I don't steal swarm traps. With that fancy camo, you just have too much time on your hands. Quit ignoring Wotsee and take her to the park or zoo or something.


That's how I keep Wostee busy is camoing the boxes.... keeps here out of trouble.


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## odfrank

With that talent she should go to fine arts college. I might drive out some of mine for her to paint.


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## bhfury

odfrank said:


> With that talent she should go to fine arts college. I might drive out some of mine for her to paint.


She charges $2.00, but I supply the paint. She doesn't do very many at one time. It's tough to keep a 14 year old girl focused!!


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## Daniel Y

tefer2 said:


> I run those same Kelley metal entrance disc. If you leave the wingnut loose, they will rotate closed on their own. I now place my holes at the top of the disk for that reason.


I was thinking of small holes around the edge. one every 90 degrees so that a small nail or screw could be used to pin it into position. If the metal is thin enough you can just punch your own hole at the edge. It would stink to make a round checking traps only to find the entrances had slipped closed.

Nice looking traps though.

I am trying to get a quote for the metal entrance disks from china. Not having much luck. I had a couple of members specifically ask me if I can get them. If I actually get into queen rearing like I am thinking I can use quite a few myself.


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## Lburou

Frank, have you ever used a bottom entrance?


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## Gypsi

If there is a swarm looking for housing an empty nuc with a bottom entrance works out fine. I caught my first swarm entirely by accident in one.

But to move a newly set swarm it does help to have an easy way to close the hive, so most of my actual traps have 3/4 inch or 1 inch drilled openings, plastic needlework canvas and a tomato paste lid for adjustable closings.. And if the canvas has to be replaced each year, a 38 cent sheet will make about 100 closings, so I'm cool with that.


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## Lburou

Lburou said:


> Frank, have you ever used a bottom entrance?


What I meant to ask about was an entrance on the underside of the box. I have quite a few plastic disks to close the entrance at the right time....on the bottom, it won't get any sun exposure and should last longer.


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## odfrank

I have not tried a bottom entrance. It might be hard to see the closed setting when you pick up the box in the dark. I would think the bees would find it OK, although that dark hole on the font of a trap might be a good visual cue for them which they might will not see on the bottom. I have tried a top entrance and it worked fine. That was going to be Model #3 on this thread. Same good value, just use a deep box with some cheap thin plywood and drill a hole in the top. Use 1/8" hardware cloth as the closure.


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## Ruthz

Gypsi, What size needle work canvas? Do the bees fly through it?


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## Dconrad

OKay odfrank, I am ready for your 2013 challenge !!! number 1 trap of 35 to hang......... I may not snag a single swarm but it won't be for the lack of trying


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## odfrank

I got a report from San Jose that I caught my first swarm in the new model. It is great that the new swarm has ten frames and foundation, I will not have to drive down to service it for a few weeks.


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## Dconrad

NICE !!!!! I hope to get the rest of my traps out this weekend.


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## Charlie B

odfrank said:


> I got a report from San Jose that I caught my first swarm in the new model. I will not have to drive down to service it for a few weeks.


I'll pick it up for you buddy, what's the address?


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## BeeGhost

Charlie B said:


> I'll pick it up for you buddy, what's the address?


I think it's right next to the Kit Kat Klub or was it the pink poodle! I'll go with you and help you carry it back out to the truck!


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## challenger

I plan on putting out several deep boxes soon. I've caught swarms in the past using them.
I put old frames that I would otherwise throw out in my boxes with at least one old dark brood comb. Other frames, when I am motivated, get a medium foundation at the top.
I am toying with the idea of using window screen for bottoms on about 12 new boxes that I am going to put up. Anyone think this would make the box less desirable for the bees?
For openings I keep foam rubber handy at all times. It is great for stuffing in any shape entrance and stays put.
I've got a good supply of LGO. Does this really help get the box looked at?
Thanks
Howard


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## shannonswyatt

I don't think I would go with the window screens. Someone with more experience can chime in, but I think they won't like it. Use some coraplast if you can get it free. Coroplast would outlive the boxes and wouldn't be a fragile as the screen. Everyone says to use LGO, some say that it as good as QMP and it is cheap.


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## odfrank

Do not use screened bottoms on swarm traps.


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## KQ6AR

Only put screened #8 bottom boards on the traps if you can close them. 
Bees like the bottom closed & the entrance small about 2"x 3/4", for traps.


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## jdmidwest

KQ6AR said:


> Only put screened #8 bottom boards on the traps if you can close them.
> Bees like the bottom closed & the entrance small about 2"x 3/4", for traps.


How do you keep birds from building a nest in the ones with the disc size hole? I did not notice any screen on them.


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## tefer2

Drive a long skinny nail through the hole from the edge.


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## delber

The problem that I found with 1/8" hardware cloth is that SHB can get in through it. If you're using a IPM and have an oil tray under it then it would be fine, but otherwise just leaving it open will enable the SHB to get away from the bees to enter whenever they like. It seemed to me that the hives that I had a SBB on vs. the ones that were solid tended to have more hive beetles. There could be 100 other reasons why this may have been, but unless you can use a smaller cloth I wouldn't use it wide open. I am only going to use a SBB now if I see a SHB problem and will dust with powdered sugar and have a oil pan under it. Just my 2c. (Ok .09 with inflation)


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## KQ6AR

I'm surprised you have to worry about beetles in PA, their not a problem here yet.


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## delber

One hive that died from stress I think. Here's a picture of the bottom board. Last winter being so mild I think is the reason why I was seeing SHB so bad. I'm hopefull that this year won't be as bad.







I'm using upper entrances which is why I need to have the screened hole for any water that gets in to be able to get out. You'll see there are a good ammt. of HSB here. This doesn't obviously include the dead ones in the comb. I had traps in all of my hives last year and they were working also.


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## odfrank

Year 2013 Model #1 is proving itself a big success. BeeWhisperer Bob in San Jose has lured in two so far. As it contains a few frames of foundation, there is little need for me to hurry down to move them into a bigger box. It will be interesting to see how the size of the swarms compares to the five framers caught there in the past. I think the next improvement should be screened feeder hole on top so that the host can immediately feed them, if I can be persuasive enough to get them to do so. That is the kind of friends we all need, ones that will catch the bees, move them to their site, and feed them.


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## shannonswyatt

You should see if he would do a split and maybe extract some honey for you as well!


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## KQ6AR

Only trapped one so far.
Might interest you to know the bee bee tree in my front yard is just starting to show some green. Big difference between usda 9a vs 9b yours greened up over a month ago.


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## odfrank

Fourth catch this year in the new models. One big one, two medium sized ones, haven't opened #4 yet.


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## odfrank

UhOh! Won't fit, kept coming for a few hours.


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## julysun

Dconrad, your boxes seem to be growing, what are you painting them with ?!


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## Dconrad

julysun said:


> Dconrad, your boxes seem to be growing, what are you painting them with ?!


julysun,

boxes are painted with oooooops paint from HD it was a exterior latex :scratch:


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## Erik

Dconrad said:


> julysun,
> 
> boxes are painted with oooooops paint from HD it was a exterior latex :scratch:


I love "oops" discounts and the bees don't seem to have the color restrictions the DW does.
-Erik near Abilene, TX


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## delber

Texas must be much better than Pa. All I ever seem to find is interior "oops" at our HD's and Lowes. (and we have 3 HD's that I check every time I'm in.


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