# Laying worker or drone layer colony solutions?



## WI-beek (Jul 14, 2009)

I have three nucs that did not turn out well and either have drone layers or laying workers. I was not able to find queens (6 frame nucs) so Im guessing laying workers. Two of these I made with swarm cells from a colony that already had a hatched queen cell and I was worried that cells may had been stung by a virgin but I gave it a whirl anyhow cause the mother of the colony was a dandy. One turned out great so it was not a complete loss. Anyhow......

If you do a shake out is there any risk to queens in the colonies that laying workers make it into? Im guessing not really but since a laying worker is not a queen, I wonder if they could slip past the radar like a normal bee once past guard then hunt your queen down.

If I combined a queen right nuc over the top of laying worker colony how big is the risk to the queen? Is shaking out the laying workers truly the better option? I would put a frames of eggs in but these have already been without a laying queen for over a month. Another month and nothing will be left hardly and it getting to late in the season anyway. I do want to keep my colony number where they are if I can so I would like to save them. Would a newspaper combine over a single layer of 1/8 screen work better so they have comunication of a real queen for a while then pull screen? Im open to any way that offer a 90% or close take.


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

In my experience, joining gets the good queens killed many times as not. I always shake them out now and remove the stands and then give the combs to other hives. The bees shook now get joined to the other hives, so they end up with the bees and combs and I've not lost any queens doing it this way.


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

Ray is correct. The bees will drift to the other hives there anyway, so giving them the combs and the boost is less dangerous than releasing a bunch of laying workers into the hive with a good queen. Since they are in nucs, you can be somewhat selective about which hives get the drift by setting the nucs on top of the hives that you want to get the boost... leave for a few days... then shake them out behind that hive and let them find the new home... they usually go ahead and move in with the hive that they were sitting on... as they start to come in, the guards of the hive will jump to alert... your laying workers will get a rough welcoming if they try to enter... good luck!


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>If you do a shake out is there any risk to queens in the colonies that laying workers make it into?

I've never had a issue with that.

> Im guessing not really but since a laying worker is not a queen

I think she gets treated as a foriegn queen by the guards, but I have never actually tried to observe it. If she doesn't she still enters as a "guest" rather than acting as she would have if she thought she were queen of the hive.

> I wonder if they could slip past the radar like a normal bee once past guard then hunt your queen down.

I haven't seen it happen.

>If I combined a queen right nuc over the top of laying worker colony how big is the risk to the queen?

I would consider this risky. But it has small chance of success.

> Is shaking out the laying workers truly the better option? 

IMO, yes. A much more predictable and positive outcome.

>I would put a frames of eggs in but these have already been without a laying queen for over a month. Another month and nothing will be left hardly and it getting to late in the season anyway. 

Yes it is late.

>I do want to keep my colony number where they are if I can so I would like to save them.

How many bees are we talking about?

>Would a newspaper combine over a single layer of 1/8 screen work better so they have comunication of a real queen for a while then pull screen? Im open to any way that offer a 90% or close take.

The only sure way to save a laying worker hive, that I know of, is a frame of eggs and open brood every week for three weeks. At that point you can treat them as any queenless hive and either let them rear a queen, requeen them or combine them with no more issues than any other queenless hive.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslayingworkers.htm
http://www.bushfarms.com/beespanacea.htm


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## WI-beek (Jul 14, 2009)

these were laying workers. I thought I seen some worker brood but all drone brood. They were side by side with colonies left and right both needing a boost, especially the tiny swarm I got that may very well be from a feral colony. I just shook them out today, well yesterday to be technically correct. I always enjoy a massive swarm of bees flying around, lol. Most went to the stronger colony and pilled onto the front of it. Oh well. The small swarm did get a major boost of comb and stores and im sure a couple frames of bees. It was really weak, maybe two frames tops so I hope mama is ok. only one way to find out.


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## DRAKOS (Oct 17, 2011)

An old beekeper, told my a way of how to manage a worker-layer hive
You feed the hive with 2/1 syrup for 2 days
Then you open the hive and take out all the frames , while you shake the bees in the hive.
You only put in the hive 2 frames without foundation
Between the frames, you stick a queen-cell. The bees have no drawn comb to lay eggs, and they start to make comb with what resources they have in stomach. After a few days they have drawn a nice comb down the cover of the hive, and because they are starving, they canot lay eggs . Meanwhile the queen has hatched and her feromones supress the egg- laying from the workers.
I have seen this method working, in his appiary, 9 times to 10


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

Thanks Drakos
That sounds very logical and I'd never thought of it myself. Turn them into a combless swarm with a queen, brilliant. I'll give it a try this way the next time I have a laying worker hive, if it's strong enough to save.


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