# Frames for supers



## Broke-T (Jul 9, 2008)

I was wondering what commercial operators are using for frames and foundation in their supers.

I am starting from scratch and will be buying frames and foundation for 50 medium supers this Fall. 

I like the fact that plastic frames don't have to be put together and wax mothes can't damage. I know people say bees don't like them but have had good luck with Pierco black foundation in brood boxes.

But there is still something about wood that just feels right.

Hope to get up to 50 or so hives next year and hate to start using something and find it doesn't work.

Thanks for any input,

Johnny


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## Eaglerock (Jul 8, 2008)

I like wood and wire foundation for extracting.


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## dbest (Aug 9, 2005)

When I jumped from 1200 to 2600 hives I bought all used of whatever I could find. Since then I've been adding one piece black pierco. I love them. Bears can't hurt them, employees can't rip top bars off, extractors don't destroy them, they just work great. I hand dip them in wax and the bees draw them out on even moderate flows.


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## Broke-T (Jul 9, 2008)

dbest, how do you do the dipping?

Johnny


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## dbest (Aug 9, 2005)

I made a melter out of an emersion heater and a barrel. I cut a hole about 5" from the bottem and welded in a piece of pipe for the heater. I then filled the barrel 2/3 full of water and filled the top 1/3 with wax. I keep the heater set at 200 degrees. The barrel is wrapped in duct insulation and I cover it with an old sleeping bag every night. I've heard of people using a crock pot and a 4" sponge roller and applying it that way. I can't remember what month but Bee Culture has an article on the process. Also track down Swarm_ trapper on here he does uses the crock pot system.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

>>employees can't rip top bars off, extractors don't destroy them, they just work great

I have plastic drawn foundation, I have wood frames with drawn foundation, I have wood frames with drawn wax foundation. My employees tell me to keep buying the all plastic frames! They dont pull apart, they dont break as easy inthe uncapper, they scrape easier, and they claim just easier to handle.

If you would like to listen to people who are un biased and have no link to beekeeping other than just working for a beekeeper, they suggest the all plastic is the ONLY way to go!
I have to agree with them, but, then again, I also consider cost


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## swarm_trapper (Jun 19, 2003)

hey ian the one peice plastic are actualy cheaper for me than the wood with plastic, and you dont have to put them togather. 
i have tried both the dipping methoud and rolling and i would have to say i like the rolling better i think it is faster if the pots keep up (i use the presto pot from walmart it is much better than a crock pot). and i have to test it a little more but i think the bees like it better with a little less wax than what i wa getting on with dipping them.


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## Dan Williamson (Apr 6, 2004)

Ian said:


> >> employees tell me to keep buying the all plastic frames! They dont pull apart, they dont break as easy inthe uncapper, they scrape easier, and they claim just easier to handle.
> 
> If you would like to listen to people who are un biased and have no link to beekeeping other than just working for a beekeeper, they suggest the all plastic is the ONLY way to go!


Interesting... my older cowen uncapper eats the one piece plastic frames. They just do NOT work as well in the uncapper as a wood frame.


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

broke-t writes:
I am starting from scratch and will be buying frames and foundation for 50 medium supers this Fall. 

tecumseh: well that a mere 500 frames... so what are you going to do in the afternoon?

for myself I am old school in regards to frames.. wood, wire and regular foundation.

plastic frames and such does seem to have come quite some distance over the years.... however with the arrival of the small hive beetle all those little recesses in the plastic don't look so appealing to me (ie I suspect they look a bit to much like home to the small hive beetle).


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## Mathispollenators (Jun 9, 2008)

*wood*

The bees seem to wax glue the plastic frames to the top for me more than the wooden ones. The plastic frames don't even fly good when I sling then in the woods as dig them out our stuff. I like the plasticell foundation is easier to put in grooved bars for me.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

>>older cowen uncapper 

You should buy a new one. I tell you, I use to watch my uncapper frame by frame, and it would eat on out of every 100. My new cowen uncapper just spits them through. It will eat maybe one in a thousand frames. We dont watch it as closely at all. Load and reload! Well worth the money I would say. I dont have uniformity in my frames either. I have old wood, I have new wood, I have plastic, and I have alot of home made wood.

Plastic is what my workers say is best to work with,


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

>>hey ian the one peice plastic are actualy cheaper for me than the wood with plastic, and you dont have to put them togather. 

Havent priced anything this year, but as of last I was quoting an assembled price,


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## dbest (Aug 9, 2005)

I have noticed that they glue them more. But its irrelevant because you cant pry them out. With the wood ones my workers tend to be standing there holding the top bar. I use a dakota guinness uncapper. They are kinda loud going through but the extractor doesn't reject them.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

>>however with the arrival of the small hive beetle all those little recesses in the plastic don't look so appealing to me (ie I suspect they look a bit to much like home to the small hive beetle).


That is an interesting point to consider. Has anyone experienced any problems the recesses caused in relation to small hive beetle populations?


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## dbest (Aug 9, 2005)

Yea the beetles take refuge in the little cracks. By dipping them the little cracks get filled, the big trick is to maintain strong hives and by moving them every few months the beetles don't build up in my hives (however I don't recomend moving them just to keep beetles down).


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## albee (Nov 16, 2006)

*older cowen*

They will update the older uncapper and they will take the plastic just fine.


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