# With Beepods, the bees don't get mad when you inspect the hive or extracting honey.



## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

http://buy.beepods.com/holiday-special/?gclid=CMuF4K2ZyckCFUKSfgodBHUKcA

[url]http://www.beepods.com/product/beepod/
[/URL]


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## hex0rz (Jan 14, 2014)

Maybe it's because I'm still too new to beekeeping, but this just looks like an over glorified top bar hive. They're definitely proud of their product with that type of price tag. Maybe it's because your buying more than a hive but all the wisdom you could ever need to keep bees with their support system.

Sounds like another person trying to reinvent the wheel. Er, I mean Beehive...


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Cool...a free turkey feather. That'll help.


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## charmd2 (May 25, 2008)

for $1375 I will sell someone a complete kit plus bees and give them a year of phone tech support too.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

And the whole turkey


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

Built myself two top bar hives with white cedar shingled roofs that are hinged and the cost was well below $100 each including making my own bars. 
Just can't see paying (I mean throwing away) that kind of cash.


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## rwlaw (May 4, 2009)

"The bees don't get mad when you inspect them". I would love to hear the support line conversation about that when a nubee cracks the lid and finds out their lovely kittens are having a bad hair day LOL.


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## DanielD (Jul 21, 2012)

Come on guys. It's got a rounded top and the screws are a matching color to the wood.

Oh yeah, and that's a bee brush, not just a feather.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>$1,375.00

Wow... only $1,375...


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## maudbid (Jul 21, 2014)

The photos are irresponsible, especially since they are marketing to new beekeepers and advertising their system does not upset bees. Having the hive on the back deck next to the grill and dining table? having unprotected people sitting right next to the hive? inspecting without at least a veil?


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

I think it's right in there with the flow hive. The TBH is 32 frames long, the equivalent of two flow hives. Two flow hives will cost you $1,400. You save $25 with the TBH!


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

See the picture of the girls sitting a few feet away watching and the lady inspecting, you can also put it on your deck right next to where you sit or the back door. 

It must work--That's proof...

"The bees don't get mad when you inspect them"

The price is high so they can cover all the lawsuits. And that's the holiday special.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

In a world where $5 cups of coffee abound, and every time I walk into a convenience store or gas station I have to wait for someone to figure put which lottery tickets to buy with their 'winnongs' from the last round of tickets they lost money on......it's hard to classify anything that is actually well made as too expensive.

I've seen one of these bee pods a few years ago....some features are (imho) unnecessary/detrimental....but people who do buy expensive hives do want a screened bottom of some kind. These are beautifuly made...and the claim about the bees not noticing the inspection is one that I hear from TBH proponents in general.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

BEWARE!! I clicked on those links, and now I see their ads on other sites I visit.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

AstroBee said:


> BEWARE!! I clicked on those links, and now I see their ads on other sites I visit.


clean of their cookies.


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## Dan P (Oct 29, 2014)

So if they do get mad and attack me. Will I get a refund??


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## Beregondo (Jun 21, 2011)

I heard they just sold one.

Now they have to wait for the one born a minute after that one....


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## Dan the bee guy (Jun 18, 2015)

Beregondo said:


> I heard they just sold one.
> 
> Now they have to wait for the one born a minute after that one....


:applause:


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## Cabin (Nov 30, 2014)

OK If they do not get mad why is a jacket and veil included????


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## Slow Drone (Apr 19, 2014)

Cabin said:


> OK If they do not get mad why is a jacket and veil included????


Great observastion Cabin! I figure because of the lack of confidence in their product


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## kramerbryan (Oct 30, 2013)

Astro
I looked at their site this morning, now the ad is here on Beesource at the top.


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## Adam Foster Collins (Nov 4, 2009)

Michael Palmer said:


> Cool...a free turkey feather. That'll help.


At $1375, it's got to account for $100 anyway...

This stuff kills me. So much of the point of a TBH, is the fact that it's so simple and inexpensive. "Pattented"? "Better for the bees"? I love a TBH, but I don't see where they're better for the bees. I'm tired of that line.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

The targeted add I see says "Give Back to the World". Like we are doing something holy to buy a hive from them.


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## JOEBEES (Dec 8, 2015)

Slow Drone said:


> Great observastion Cabin! I figure because of the lack of confidence in their product



So I think it is great to see an alternate perspective to the Beepods Beekeeping system. I am only a couple years into beekeeping in general, but I have to say that many of the people in this thread have a skewed perspective on what the organization is working to achieve. I say this because they run great classes on beekeeping, not only on top bar hives, but on standard box hives, as well. 

I can attest to the fact that the Beepods Beekeeping system is safer than Langstroths. I'm sure they provide a veil for those individuals who do not have confidence when they are beginning beekeeping. It's the same as giving a child training wheels instead of having them learn how to ride on 2 wheels right away. They have done great work building advocacy for honeybees and changing ordinances and such and I am a little disappointed in some of the commentary of those in this thread. Instead of being critical through an understanding of what is provided with the price, there is a criticism of just what you are looking at on the surface. Their system includes a number of support features that other beehives do not provide, like a complete online resource center, phone support and even helping with implementation and placement of the hive on the property. 

I know that many of you have probably decided to ignore what I am saying, and that is fine, but I might suggest trying to work with organizations like this as they are building brands and awareness to the general population in order to work towards an understanding of the challenges that beekeepers like us all are facing as time goes on. Maybe get in touch with them and give them CONSTRUCTIVE feedback rather than talking about them in a place where they may not have the chance to respond to your criticisms. 

Just my thought, but I'm sure that everyone here has their own perspective and that is completely fine by me.

Thank you to those who read my response and I look forward to having constructive conversation on this site. It seems to have a lot of experienced individuals here that could be helpful to me and my friends who have decided to be beekeepers. Take care and happy holidays.

By they way, here's a link to a great news story that talks about the system for those of you who might want to learn a little more about what they are doing in the Milwaukee area. http://www.wisn.com/news/milwaukee-church-puts-beehive-on-its-roof/33514434 They are working to create awareness and teach people to be stewards of the bees and nature as well. Great example in my mind.


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## DanielD (Jul 21, 2012)

Still very expensive Joe.


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## maudbid (Jul 21, 2014)

kramerbryan said:


> Astro
> I looked at their site this morning, now the ad is here on Beesource at the top.


Top, side, everywhere. This advertisement method is one of the things they are spending their money.

This this tracking has privacy concerns, but it is widespread not just limited to this one advertiser. Delete your cookies to get rid of this. Adjust your privacy settings to prevent it, although that might make browsing a bit more clunky since so many websites require you to accept cookies.


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## maudbid (Jul 21, 2014)

JOEBEES said:


> By they way, here's a link to a great news story that talks about the system for those of you who might want to learn a little more about what they are doing in the Milwaukee area. http://www.wisn.com/news/milwaukee-church-puts-beehive-on-its-roof/33514434 They are working to create awareness and teach people to be stewards of the bees and nature as well. Great example in my mind.


The video shows a bunch of people watching the bees with no protection at all. Quote "Nobody was stung, it was part of the deal." Great marketing until the deal gets busted, unless of course these pods truly are special in taming bees.


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## Dan P (Oct 29, 2014)

I think it has more to do with the bees, not the box they are in...


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

JOEBEES said:


> Maybe get in touch with them and give them CONSTRUCTIVE feedback rather than talking about them in a place where they may not have the chance to respond to your criticisms.


They, like anyone else, are certainly capable of creating a beesource ID and entering into this discussion. If they feel that the comments posted here are inaccurate, then send them over and we can debate it. The facts are that this is simply a top bar hive with some accessories and they claim its worth over $1300 (bees not included) - what joke. They are taking advantage of people who don't know any better. I've read their website (got the tracking cookies to prove it) and it is full of SO much nonsense. Here's my constructive feedback: stop trying to rip off newbees.


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## jadebees (May 9, 2013)

It's a Kenyan topbar hive. Nicely made, looks to be worth about $200. But a basic ktbh can be got on e-bay for around 100. Maybe i can get them to market my hives, the profit margin for me would be about 1500%. Free shipping for 1375 ? 
For some constructive critisism, perhaps you would have a better respect from this site if your advertising was not basically misleading, and likely to kill some unaware new wannabe beekeeper.
To most of the people on this site, even the new beekeepers, this post is basically spam. 
BTW, @ JOEBEES, I also teach people to beekeep, if they wish. Its free , and goes with getting a hive or bees here. But, first rule :if you have no beesuit, no bee looky, no opening a hive. But, never do they have the impression that the bees don't mind the hive being opened. The bees will soon remove that error from their mind. It's irresponsible to put that on a website.


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## BeeBop (Apr 23, 2015)

AstroBee said:


> They, like anyone else, are certainly capable of creating a beesource ID and entering into this discussion. If they feel that the comments posted here are inaccurate, then send them over and we can debate it.


Since JOEBEES just joined (welcome, Joe) and his very first post was to jump in and vigorously defend the Beepod people, I figured they were already here.


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## JOEBEES (Dec 8, 2015)

Thank you for the welcome.


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## Cabin (Nov 30, 2014)

BeeBop said:


> Since JOEBEES just joined (welcome, Joe) and his very first post was to jump in and vigorously defend the Beepod people, I figured they were already here.


"Beepods is based out of Milwaukee, Wisconsin and its core team is constantly searching for Beevangelists around the country to train and certify in Beepods Beekeeping. Contact Us to learn more."

Joebees location also is in Milwaukee it seems.


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## DanielD (Jul 21, 2012)

It wouldn't be unnusual. Other new products had brand new members defending it like commercials. Flowhive?


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## charmd2 (May 25, 2008)

Joebees, how are you genteling the bees in your top bar hives? What makes them more special than the two top bar hives I currently have? I admit yours are attractive. Mine are not "as tame as kittens". There is no way I would sit in front of them and have morning coffee or open them with out at least a veil and smoke. 

Of course I live smack dab in skunk and shb territory, my hives may be a tad testy occassionally. 

I just feel it was foolhardy at best to put that on the site. (and I am one to spend money on gimmicks, I have a flow hive kit on order just to try the darn thing out. lol)


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

With such false suggestive promotions of having people close to the hives without protective gear I wonder how their insurance companies will handle a claim WHEN someone gets stung. It would be hard to establish due diligence on the promoters part! I dont think it will fly!


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Adam Foster Collins said:


> At $1375, it's got to account for $100 anyway...


Should be the whole wing. And a goose's wing at that.


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## capitalbeesupply (Jul 28, 2013)

crofter said:


> With such false suggestive promotions of having people close to the hives without protective gear I wonder how their insurance companies will handle a claim WHEN someone gets stung. It would be hard to establish due diligence on the promoters part! I dont think it will fly!


You've hit on a very important legal issue for everyone to consider in today's litigious world and something we look at all the time. When one advertises (and this extends well beyond print literature) a product and states that it does something it could/would be argued by a plaintiff who suffers injuries and economic damages that there was an implied warranty. We receive about 2 to 3 new beekeeping products each month for review and evaluation from other manufacturers and there are all kinds of claims made. Some product claims are true, some are not, some are unable to be consistently reproduced (and many in the last 8 years, moreso in the last 4, that start with "Save your bees with XYZ product." followed by claims about what XYZ product does. Regardless it would be wise for Charlie to put some disclaimer there "Results not typical, may vary by individual" lest some creative lawyer with a client who had a Beepod or was visiting someone with a Beepod gets stung, suffers an anaphylatic reaction, subsequently dies, the family pursues litigation, and their lawyers screen capture the video off the website for leverage in a settlement or use in court.


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## bodosom (Dec 4, 2010)

Cabin said:


> OK If they do not get mad why is a jacket and veil included????


Like many other complaints about this product the answer to that is on their site.


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## bodosom (Dec 4, 2010)

jadebees said:


> It's a Kenyan topbar hive. Nicely made, looks to be worth about $200.
> For some constructive critisism, perhaps you would have a better respect from this site if your advertising was not basically misleading, and likely to kill some unaware new wannabe beekeeper.
> To most of the people on this site, even the new beekeepers, this post is basically spam.
> BTW, @ JOEBEES, I also teach people to beekeep, if they wish. Its free , and goes with getting a hive or bees here. But, first rule :if you have no beesuit, no bee looky, no opening a hive. But, never do they have the impression that the bees don't mind the hive being opened. The bees will soon remove that error from their mind. It's irresponsible to put that on a website.


The presentation is a bit over the top but ...

The fact that it's a modified KTBH is on their site. 
If a bee sting is going to kill you then you shouldn't keep bees. 
Their kit comes with a jacket and veil presumably because, as they say, "It is possible that a beekeeper will be stung at some point in during their time in raising a honeybee colony,". 
I was at some bee yard tracks at EAS 2015 and although they strongly encouraged everyone to wear at least a veil (and provided them for if you forgot yours) NONE of the instructors wore them.

I don't understand why people are so willing to ridicule what other people are willing to buy. It's their money not yours.

By the way if I was going to buy a custom hive I'd probably go with something more like MikeJ's kit but I'd probably wear a veil for inspection.


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

Haters gonna hate.
What are you going to say when someone with one of these hives harvest a little extra honey and offers it for $12.00 per #?

I rising tide lifts all ships.


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## capitalbeesupply (Jul 28, 2013)

Mbeck said:


> Haters gonna hate.
> What are you going to say when someone with one of these hives harvest a little extra honey and offers it for $12.00 per #?
> 
> I rising tide lifts all ships.



That is happening in our immediate area, but not due to Beepods. There is an urban full-time beekeeper, 80ish hives, (I suppose one would call that serious sidelining in normal cases), in the area that is harvesting and marketing based on season and locality. People pay for having a hive on their property (I recall it is around $60/year) and they get a jar or two of honey in exchange. The honey price as I look at the list is $34.00 for three 10oz jars. Three pack of 5oz is $22.00. Plus he's operating a honey CSA as well. I would have to do some ciphering to figure price per pound, but my initial guess is that it is over $12.00/lb for honey....then again, driving place to place to take care of 1-3 hives per location eats up $$$$$$ times 2. I know that honey in this area sells a lot higher than if we go 40ish miles in any direction from here. $8.00/lb retail in the immediate area pretty typical, a little cheaper per pound as one goes up from small to large (5lb) containers. There is a fair amount of competition, but also strong demand locally. Its $4 to $5/lb retail outside the 40ish mile radius from what we see at markets and our conversations with other producers.....lower demand, producers willing to sell honey at a lower price, etc. Locally our honey is a good value in comparison and sells well, outside the radius its "expensive" in comparison and we really have to work to market at the $8.00/lb when a few booths down honey is $4.50/lb....


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

rwlaw said:


> "The bees don't get mad when you inspect them". I would love to hear the support line conversation about that when a nubee cracks the lid and finds out their lovely kittens are having a bad hair day LOL.


+1 :thumbsup: My first thought exactly. All I have to do is spend $1375 on a hive someone in Kenya should have patented centuries ago, and my large cell foundation bi+ches will turn into puddytats? Honey! Get the cheque book! :lpf:

They could have included that purchase in the prayer scene on "Taladega Nights - the Legend of Ricky Bobby", which would be pretty hard to make funnier than it was as published. I think they've been smoking Mountain Dew.

Bodosom - Its not the inability to NOT ridicule others' purchases at ridiculous prices, its the chutzpah of the seller. I saw a business card that said, " I will dredge your claim to the bedrock and give you a full report. Call (xxx) xxx-xxxx for quote." Some people have an oversupply of nerve. Ridicule is a coping device for the rest of us, Listerine does not make them go away.

Thanks for the laugh, Ollie.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

kilocharlie said:


> <SNIP>"+1 its the chutzpah of the seller."<SNIP>


 Yes that is what drives a lot of pushback against ridiculous or weakly supported claims; they insult the intelligence. Of course, they really are directed at the gullible anyway, so they don't really care I guess. I would find it embarrassing; I wouldn't like the taste of bull crap in my mouth!


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

Mbeck said:


> Haters gonna hate.
> What are you going to say when someone with one of these hives harvest a little extra honey and offers it for $12.00 per #?
> 
> I rising tide lifts all ships.



I'd say they are desperately trying to recover some of the money they threw away. By the time they are harvesting to sell, they probably know the scam they fell prey to.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

There are real liars and scammers out there. I've met Charlie. ...he is not a liar or a scammer.

I would not make the claims he seems to...but I also know that when I see presentations, articls, and books about TBH...one of the central claims is that inspections disturb the bees less. I usually work Lang equipment without a veil (I always have one on hand, amd I always use a smoker)....ive seen a lot of TBH worked with large groups of people without veils without problems.....but I've done the same with langs.

My recollection was that this was a project by community, there are a lot of costs....and there are a lot of benefits....it is up those spending their money to do so where they think is best....be it this, or a hive kit at costco.

Motorboats don't come with sexy girls no matter what the advertising indicates...I haven't seen anything that is out of line with the mainstream TBH claims...it's certainly fair to call anyone on exaggerated or unsupported claims....but let's reserve scammers for those that really deserve it.

I don't have Wyatt's book, but he is certainly credible by any standard. Does he make claims about the bees calmness during inspection vs a lang? I'd be suprised of he didnt.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

deknow said:


> Motorboats don't come with sexy girls no matter what the advertising indicates...I haven't seen anything that is out of line with the mainstream TBH claims...it's certainly fair to call anyone on exaggerated or unsupported claims....but let's reserve scammers for those that really deserve it.
> .
> .
> .
> ...project by community, there are a lot of costs....and there are a lot of benefits....it is up those spending their money to do so where they think is best...


Well, perhaps "scam" was a bit over the top - my apologies. What price would be reasonable for what is offered? My guess is about $300-400, which puts his price nearly $1000 high IMO. Not so sure your motorboat analogy is applicable, but makes for good reading. 

If you need a community, then join a local beekeeping club ($10 locally). They provide LOTS of free advice from very senior beekeepers, and can provide solid advice on where to buy local bees and equipment.


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## Dunderi (Jun 24, 2015)

Adam Foster Collins said:


> At $1375, it's got to account for $100 anyway...


I reckon it does, because apparently it weighs a pound....



> The feather Guider has a craftsman made handle with a hook and is used to gently move bees. This replaces smokers and brushes which have shown proof to be a harsher form of handling bees. With this tool, bees are easily guided off the comb or other places with significantly less agitation and increased safety. Sh wt. 1 lb <- !!


and I mean, jee wizz, would you look at it? it's so pretty...


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## bodosom (Dec 4, 2010)

AstroBee said:


> If you need a community, then join a local beekeeping club ($10 locally). They provide LOTS of free advice from very senior beekeepers, and can provide solid advice on where to buy local bees and equipment.


Free advice is often worth what you pay for it. Especially from "stay off my lawn" senior beekeepers.
Or ... "ask 10 beekeepers a question, expect 11 different answers".

E.g. I heard a very experienced and highly regarded apiarist tell a new beekeeper that wax versus plastic foundation was entirely up to the bee keeper -- the bees don't care. This despite some very clever work done by Seeley's group that suggests otherwise. A "good" community is priceless. Of course it's unlikely that Beepod is doing work that's advancing the state of the art but they might be.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

bodosom said:


> Of course it's unlikely that Beepod is doing work that's advancing the state of the art but they might be.


Go ahead, send them your cash and please come back a year later and share with us your new found enlightenment.


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## BeeBop (Apr 23, 2015)

AstroBee said:


> If you need a community, then join a local beekeeping club ($10 locally).


*$30* here and the meetings are on monday evenings, in a location that's a 2 hour round trip drive from here. Joining a local bee club isn't practical for everyone. I won't be rejoining next year.


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## charmd2 (May 25, 2008)

meetings are at 7:30 on Tuesdays once a month here at Golden Corral. Uggh. Buffets scare me. Not a chance,  Actually there are 7 members and it is a fairly clicish group. I learned more here in an hour than I learned in a year of meetings.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

Guess I'm spoiled. There are 5 clubs in my local area, with the closet 10 minutes away. I've learned a lot from our clubs, and have tried to share my experiences as much as possible.


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## bodosom (Dec 4, 2010)

AstroBee said:


> Go ahead, send them your cash and please come back a year later and share with us your new found enlightenment.


Perhaps your comment was sincere and free of malice but it doesn't sound like it to me.


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## JakeDatc (Apr 19, 2010)

Could get a full set up from Matt for half the cost
http://www.beethinking.com/collecti...s/top-bar-hive-starter-kit?variant=1106347716

Having worked Lang and top bars with nice bees I can say that there isn't a ton of difference. You can disrupt a bit less with a top bar by working from the back and working forward towards the brood area but I wouldn't do it without smoke and gear. Can do similar with Lang by pulling off the upper boxes then putting a cover on to keep them contained a bit.


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## Cabin (Nov 30, 2014)

bodosom said:


> Perhaps your comment was sincere and free of malice but it doesn't sound like it to me.


How did you get malice out of that???


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## Joe Hillmann (Apr 27, 2015)

At first look that is very expensive but if you compare it someone getting started from scratch and buying everything from Mann Lake it isn't quite as overpriced as it first looks.

From Man Lake a complete starter set is about $500
A cheap extractor is $200
And a vaporizer is is $100
So that would be $800 and you still need to get bees and pay shipping.

And the starter set is probably made with all types of jigs and specially set up tool and have lots of practice to make them fast and the lumber is bought in bulk.

The topbar hives are probably made one or two at a time so they don't have the efficiency of scale that the others do. 

Although in my mind the biggest benefit of a top bar hive is you can make them very cheap and very quick from any materiel you have easy access to. And paying $1300 for a hive kind of takes away that benefit.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

Joe Hillmann said:


> At first look that is very expensive but if you compare it someone getting started from scratch and buying everything from Mann Lake it isn't quite as overpriced as it first looks.
> 
> From Man Lake a complete starter set is about $500
> A cheap extractor is $200
> ...


From Beepods website:


This kit includes the following:

Beepod Vented Top Bar Hive
Beepod Harvest Box
Beepod Inspection Kit
Beepod Hive Tool
Feather Guider
Beepod Tabletop Bar Stand
Jacket Veil
1 Year Subscription to a Beepods Membership
1 Year Subscription to on-call support



Nowhere does Beepods say an extractor or vaporizer is included, so why would you even make such a comparison? A fair comparison was given by JackDatc in post 55. ($559 free shipping)



Joe Hillmann said:


> And the starter set is probably made with all types of jigs and specially set up tool and have lots of practice to make them fast and the lumber is bought in bulk.


:scratch: I cannot, in anyway, understand why any of the above is a negative.


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## Joe Hillmann (Apr 27, 2015)

I am comparing the cost of the bee pod to the cost of getting everything you need from Mann Lake for a langstroth. The Langstroth costing $500 and still needing an extractor and eventually a vaporizer. 

So to get started with a langstroth you would have about $800 invested and am comparing that to $1300 for the bee pod.

Edit: I included the cost of an extractor and vaporizer in the langstroth cost because most people who use langstroth hives use an extractor and most people who use a top bar do crush and strain. I also included the cost of a vaporize because that is one of the "claims" made about top bar hives that they build natural sized comb and don't need treatment.

The last part I didn't say was a negative, I was just using it to explain that things made in small batches often cost more per piece than the same thing made in large batches because of the economy of scale.


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## DanielD (Jul 21, 2012)

Joe Hillmann said:


> I am comparing the cost of the bee pod to the cost of getting everything you need from Mann Lake for a langstroth. The Langstroth costing $500 and still needing an extractor and eventually a vaporizer.
> 
> So to get started with a langstroth you would have about $800 invested and am comparing that to $1300 for the bee pod.
> 
> ...


You still have an almost 70% increase in cost there, and you don't have the empty comb to use again, and you may well have bees that die from varroa issues. I'd say an extractor is a purchase of convenience, since you can crush and strain from a Lang hive. 

I would assume they consider the tech support most of the cost. Well and good I suppose, but now I appreciate Beesource more.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

....it's as if no one on beesource ever paid 10x more for a meal than it would cost to make it yourself, or even eat in a cheaper reaturant.


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## Slow Drone (Apr 19, 2014)

Joe Hillmann said:


> I am comparing the cost of the bee pod to the cost of getting everything you need from Mann Lake for a langstroth. The Langstroth costing $500 and still needing an extractor and eventually a vaporizer.
> 
> So to get started with a langstroth you would have about $800 invested and am comparing that to $1300 for the bee pod.
> 
> ...


Comparing a TBH to a Langstroth is like comparing apples to oranges.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

deknow said:


> ....it's as if no one on beesource ever paid 10x more for a meal than it would cost to make it yourself, or even eat in a cheaper reaturant.


This is a lot closer to 20x than 10x... but that's really not the point, I know.
I, for one, don't have a problem with someone ripping people off. The information for anyone to be an informed consumer is readily available. Plus, it is unlikely that anyone selling bee equipment at such an outrageous price is actually selling much of it. Except for the Flow Hive (tm) guys... the really overpriced bee equipment seems to be pretty much unpurchased in relative terms. That Eco Bee Box company sells little micro hives for like $600 (or more?) and you could never actually put a real bee colony into one. At least for twice that with this beepod thing you'd have a hive you could at least operate in miniature if nothing else...

I ran TBHs my first year and cut out of them in year two. Brood nests never expanded beyond the size of a ten frame medium. Put them in Langstroth equipment and watched them explode. On the other side, I do think that the bees were more apt to be calm when inspecting in the TBH compared to Lang boxes... but the difference is negligible and could EASILY be more attributable to the fact that my TBHs had so little to defend and so few bees compared to my Langs.


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## maudbid (Jul 21, 2014)

I notice there is not a smoker in the Beepod starter kit? 
Do top bar hive owners regularly skip smoking the bees during inspections and extraction?


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## Cabin (Nov 30, 2014)

deknow said:


> ....it's as if no one on beesource ever paid 10x more for a meal than it would cost to make it yourself, or even eat in a cheaper reaturant.


Cost of materials AND time involved in prep?? I for one have never paid 10X but then neither mine nor my wife's time is cheap. Not to mention the time involved in cleanup!!


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

deknow said:


> ....it's as if no one on beesource ever paid 10x more for a meal than it would cost to make it yourself, or even eat in a cheaper reaturant.


If you ever ate my cooking, you'd understand that there can be real value paying 10x more. However, paying more doesn't always equate to increased value. I've overpaid numerous times at restaurants, but those are 1-time deals. The key to a community is to help advise others when they are entering into a poor deal (beepods in this case). I often recommend great restaurants to friends. Likewise, when I don't get the quality/value consistent with the cost, I share that too. To be fair, I don't own a beepods hive, but based upon my experience, I find it VERY hard to believe that the cost is even remotely justified. 4 pages into this thread, I've seen no argument presented to suggest that my assessment is flawed. Now, with an experienced recommendation in hand, go ahead and eat your oatmeal at exclusive French restaurant prices. Bon Appetite


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## JakeDatc (Apr 19, 2010)

Joe Hillmann said:


> I am comparing the cost of the bee pod to the cost of getting everything you need from Mann Lake for a langstroth. The Langstroth costing $500 and still needing an extractor and eventually a vaporizer.
> 
> So to get started with a langstroth you would have about $800 invested and am comparing that to $1300 for the bee pod.
> 
> ...


I do crush/strain with my 2 lang hives and no vaporizor (at the moment). so you can reduce the "minimum" requirements down quite a bit. 

i've done minimal stuff without smoke but wouldn't on a regular basis.. a few stings even on gloves or whatever that get the pheromones out would be asking for trouble


And for the food metaphor.. this isn't like eating fancier food. It is putting the same food on a glass plate or a paper plate. There is nothing that the Beepod does other than hold bees. I do like their leg setup better than BeeThinking's but that isn't a huge difference.


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

maudbid said:


> I notice there is not a smoker in the Beepod starter kit?
> Do top bar hive owners regularly skip smoking the bees during inspections and extraction?


Not sure I really want to jump into this thread, but YES, most topbar hive owners skip smoking their bees. I have a smoker that has never been lit. It's a flower vase at the moment.


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## Joe Hillmann (Apr 27, 2015)

JakeDatc said:


> I do crush/strain with my 2 lang hives and no vaporizor (at the moment). so you can reduce the "minimum" requirements down quite a bit.
> 
> i've done minimal stuff without smoke but wouldn't on a regular basis.. a few stings even on gloves or whatever that get the pheromones out would be asking for trouble
> 
> ...


I want to point out I never said/typed "minimum". If someone truly wanted to get into beekeeping at a minimum of expense they could do it without spending any money.


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## Cabin (Nov 30, 2014)

Joe Hillmann said:


> I want to point out I never said/typed "minimum". If someone truly wanted to get into beekeeping at a minimum of expense they could do it without spending any money.


"
At first look that is very expensive but if you compare it someone getting started from scratch and buying everything from Mann Lake it isn't quite as overpriced as it first looks.

From Man Lake a complete starter set is about $500
A cheap extractor is $200
And a vaporizer is is $100
So that would be $800 and you still need to get bees and pay shipping.

And the starter set is probably made with all types of jigs and specially set up tool and have lots of practice to make them fast and the lumber is bought in bulk.

The topbar hives are probably made one or two at a time so they don't have the efficiency of scale that the others do. 

Although in my mind the biggest benefit of a top bar hive is you can make them very cheap and very quick from any materiel you have easy access to. And paying $1300 for a hive kind of takes away that benefit. " 

OK I must have missed the word 'minimum' .

I love cheap, built 3 top bar hives and a modified lang, including 100 deep frames(foundationless)for all hives under $500 cost, that included smoker, hive tools, bee brush, nuc box and 4 veils. 

This hive seems to be marketed to those with more money than brains. That's OK by me. The dishonesty is in presenting it as costing no more than other set ups.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

ruthiesbees said:


> YES, most topbar hive owners skip smoking their bees


A local topbar promoter/teacher who works smokeless had two Saturday classes last year. She works the hives in slow motion as not to disturb the bees. The 10:00am class went OK, but at the 1:00pm class the bees got mad, many students were stung, the hive was closed up and the class was ended.


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## D Coates (Jan 6, 2006)

odfrank said:


> A local topbar promoter/teacher who works smokeless had two Saturday classes last year. She works the hives in slow motion as not to disturb the bees. The 10:00am class went OK, but at the 1:00pm class the bees got mad, many students were stung, the hive was closed up and the class was ended.


I can't help but giggle at the thought. Once they get mad enough to start stinging you'd better have a smoker lit or be fully prepared to shut it up and leave ASAP (all the while being stung). They don't calm down at all without smoke. Even worse, there were potential new beekeepers who undoubtedly will not continue after this. The newbes would have gotten downright panicky as the roar kicked up and the stinging started. Why you wouldn't use smoke even as a back up while training inexperienced beeks escapes me. Smoke's been effectively used to calm bees since prehistoric times. To not at least train in it's use and effectiveness seems foolish.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

ruthiesbees said:


> Not sure I really want to jump into this thread, but YES, most topbar hive owners skip smoking their bees. I have a smoker that has never been lit. It's a flower vase at the moment.


Which leads to (all links from the top bar hive forum):
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?315608-Discouraged-newbee
http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...e-Bees-off-my-Top-Bars-after-I-open-the-cover
Spraying with water once they get mad and wondering why they just get more mad: http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?313900-Hot-hive-cross-comb-mess
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?312906-aggressive-bees

That is not to say that not using smoke is unique to TBH users. Plenty of new Langstroth folks have the same complaints. But it seems much more likely that the TBH people having been sold on the idea that smoke is completely unnecessary by the marketing.

I noticed a difference between my TBHs and my Langs. I kind of attributed it to the hive for awhile, but the more bees I have the more that I realize that my TBHs were tiny little colonies that didn't get big enough to realize they could defend themselves. It never really had anything to do with the box... it had everything to do with the fact that there was barely any brood or honey to defend and barely any bees with which to defend it. I have nucleus colonies that have more brood and bees than my TBHs ever did. And they are quite literally the same bees. Cut over into Langs.


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