# Neophyte Beek from Massachusetts



## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

From what I've read, trees tend to grow straight up with evenly spaced branches. We don't have lodgepole pines around here, and aside from the occasional planted area (which you discover by first having an errie feeling in the woods...and you notice the trees are perfectly lined up and spaced...), I've rarely seen a tree (certainly more common with fast growing conifers) that looks like a tree tends to grow. You will find bees are the same.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

tenleez said:


> So a Langstroth deep isn't deep enough.


For what you are wanting to do, one langstroth deep is not enough. But they are stackable and you should be wintering them in at least 2 boxes. As you have correctly understood, the cluster being allowed to slowly work their way upwards into fresh honey and the second box should be completely full of honey. There are some experienced beekeepers who winter in one box, but for a new player there is a whole lot more safety margin, and less skill required, to take them through winter in 2 or more boxes.

Not feeding sugar is based on the premise your bees will collect and store enough honey to see them through winter. But if something goes awry and they do not store enough, biting the bullet and feeding sugar is better than having dead bees in spring.

And contrary to what is sometimes implied, sugar fed bees, if it's done right, come through in spring just as fit and healthy as honey fed bees. There is constant stuff being said that you shouldn't feed sugar, "I don't want sugar fed bees", etc. But ask any of these folks why they think that the reply is "cos it's not natural" or "cos proper honey must be better". But ask them why, they won't know. There is no science showing bees winter worse if fed sugar, long as it is refined white sugar.


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## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

tenleez said:


> I'm told the probabilities of success with package bees are poor. But I will do what I can to give the bees a fighting chance to build a healthy hive, overwinter successfully and thrive the following spring.
> 
> tenleez


 You have been told wrong. Packages bees have just as good a chance of success as any! The mean age of the bees shaken into a package can play a role in the longevity of the reining queen but with sound management the bees will do fine. My personal record with packages is exemplary, and yors can be too if you take a logicql approach and avoid excess stress on the bees, the 3 week milestone it the one to be the most cautious, as far as supersedures, However it is not like it takes a miracle to get a package to flourish. Just some common sense.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

With one caveat, the OP says he is focussed on "natural beekeeping".

By which he probably means he is not going to do anything about mites.

I get the feeling from his post he has done a lot of research and been pretty thorough. He is getting one Russian nuc, which might do OK without mite treatment. The 2 Italian nucs will eventually succumb to mites if he does not treat them. If he does treat them though they will likely do awesome.


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## GaryG74 (Apr 9, 2014)

Welcome to BeeSource and good luck with your bees! A thread was started in the last week or so about using deeper frames for the brood nest. I don't remember the title, but you might search for it and find the thread. It discussed several angles of using larger frames in the brood nest.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Welcome to Beesource, _tenleez_!


>> A thread was started in the last week or so about using deeper frames for the brood nest. 

Could be this one ...
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?320011-jumbo-or-extra-large-hive-bodies-source


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## tenleez (Jan 23, 2016)

Oldtimer said:


> With one caveat, the OP says he is focussed on "natural beekeeping".
> 
> By which he probably means he is not going to do anything about mites.
> 
> I get the feeling from his post he has done a lot of research and been pretty thorough. He is getting one Russian nuc, which might do OK without mite treatment. The 2 Italian nucs will eventually succumb to mites if he does not treat them. If he does treat them though they will likely do awesome.


Thank you all for the warm welcome and great input. I'm sure I can learn a lot from the good beekeepers here. 

Don't know if you're familiar with Les Crowder, a TBH enthusiast. He claims to have no mite problems with his bees in New Mexico. He uses "creosote" to treat for mites. I have no idea what methods he uses to prepare and treat the hives. All I know is however he does it, he is mite free from using it. Might be worth checking out....


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Follow who you want Tenleez, there is someone out there who will tell you whatever it is you want to hear. 

To navigate this jungle, my method is to copy success, or those who are smart enough in the way they run their bees to make a living from it.

Yes I have heard of Les Crowder, his bees are not mite free and here is a link about him.

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?319364-Les-Crowder-needs-a-little-help

As previously stated your 2 Italian packages will have around an over 90% chance of being killed out by mites unless you do something about the mites, this will apply regardless of what Les says he does. But end of day your call, learning by experience can be a good way also so you are not obligated to treat.


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## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

Welcome!


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