# Treated lumber for hive stand



## lockdown199 (Nov 2, 2014)

Looking to build a couple of hive stands and was wondering if it was ok to use treated lumber or go with untreated. I was thinking that treated might effect the hive from fumes that come off the wood.


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## psm1212 (Feb 9, 2016)

You will probably get positive and negative responses, focusing primarily on the chemicals used in treating the wood and how those chemicals may effect honey and/or bees. I have built screened bottom boards out of both untreated and treated materials and I have not noticed any difference. Other than untreated bottom boards rot much more quickly than treated bottom boards. I think it is really just your personal philosophy on chemicals and beekeeping.


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## ifixoldhouses (Feb 27, 2019)

I try and buy them a few months before I use them, lets them dry out some.and if it twists you can take it back.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

I dont know whether we are on the same standard both sides of the border but there was quite a change over here in regard to arsenic content. I dont know what the common formulation is now but it is less bad! Probably the most meaningful exposure would be via sawing etc., when we build with it.


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## lockdown199 (Nov 2, 2014)

I read a couple articles on the subject and it would take awhile for the wood to dry out. Now I’m thinking trex decking or something similar


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## lockdown199 (Nov 2, 2014)

Just checked price of trex decking, probably going to go with regular wood 2x4 and some good outdoors latex paint.


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## JConnolly (Feb 21, 2015)

Both. The stand platform is not in contact with the ground so use regular lumber. Use treated lumber for legs that are in contact with the ground.

Here is something to think about instead.




















This stand doesn't make contact with the ground, it sits on leveling bolts and the leveling bolts can sit on pavers or cinder blocks. It is made from 2x6 Douglas fir. The leveling bolts pass through a nut embedded in the cross member and epoxied in place. I use 4" [test caps](https://www.homedepot.com/p/Oatey-4-4-in-ABS-DWV-Insert-Test-Cap-with-Knockout-39103/100113503) for grease cups. Small screws secure the grease cup in place over the level bolt. Leveler bolts are 6" long with 1/2-13 thread. Cross members are joined to the rails with 6" lag bolts. Be sure to drill a pilot hole that is the diameter of the lag bolt shank so it doesn't split the cross member. I've now made four of these since my first one a few years ago and they work well at keeping the ants out of the hives. it'll be the basic pattern of all my new hive stands now. Ants can climb up the level bolts but that is as far as they can get. (Weeds or other items in contact with the stand nullify the stand). The stand will hold up to three hives. I finished them with four coats of boiled linseed oil, which takes a couple of weeks in the sun to cure before using. BLO is a finish that has to be renewed in about four years, but it is easy to renew. The grease is just whatever axle grease is the cheapest, and it needs to be renewed after about two years.


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## Ryan Williamson (Feb 28, 2012)

I highly recommend treated wood or for resistant wood like white oak....once the untreated wood starts to rot it's a gamble when it will collapse under a summer hive weight. Would you build your deck joists with untreated wood?


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## Fivej (Apr 4, 2016)

I seriously doubt that the chemicals would do any harm;however, if you want to avoid chemicals when they are unnecessary,consider cement blocks. Last forever, you don't have to mow under them, they give some insulation and the holes are handy for storing your hive tool and running straps through them. They are also pretty heavy which is a plus if you want to strap your hives due to wind and bears. J


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## psm1212 (Feb 9, 2016)

crofter said:


> I dont know whether we are on the same standard both sides of the border but there was quite a change over here in regard to arsenic content. I dont know what the common formulation is now but it is less bad! Probably the most meaningful exposure would be via sawing etc., when we build with it.


They stopped using arsenic in the US to treat wood in 2003.


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## lockdown199 (Nov 2, 2014)

Thanks for the pics, now the wheels are turning


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## neosolace (Feb 22, 2019)

JConnolly said:


> Both. The stand platform is not in contact with the ground so use regular lumber. Use treated lumber for legs that are in contact with the ground.
> 
> Here is something to think about instead.
> View attachment 53417
> ...


Where'd you get those leveling feet? I like those!


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## Jim Braun (Nov 8, 2019)

I second JConnely's opinion about treated in contact with the ground. 2x4x4 if you are going with a 2 hive stand, 2x6x10 if you are going for a 6 hive stand.

I painted my porch with a good latex paint 2 years ago and it did a great job of peeling in the first year. I noticed the same thing with my bee boxes. From now on I'll take the time to clean my rollers and brushes with paint thinner. The good paint stores say oil based paint lasts 7 years as the oil penetrates the wood and latex floats on the surface. I have one top cover that I won at my beginning bee class in 2012 and I just noticed that it has mushrooms growing under the parts that the bees have not used propolis to stick down. So all of my top covers get made out of treated plywood from now on.

Good Luck on your stands.


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## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

All of our stands are made the same way. We drove fence posts first, I used the old ones that came out when we replaced an old fence with the new one you see behind the hives. two posts 8 feet apart, then two more beside them. Cut the posts all off level, then set a 12 or 16 foot 4x4 on top of the posts, drove a spike thru to hold it in place. All the wood is treated.


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## bushpilot (May 14, 2017)

I use treated for hive stands. I have not noticed any problem. I would not use treated for the hive bottom.


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

lockdown199 said:


> Looking to build a couple of hive stands and was wondering if it was ok to use treated lumber or go with untreated. I was thinking that treated might effect the hive from fumes that come off the wood.


I try to avoid treated lumber. I would use cedar, redwood, or cypress, depending on what was to hand.


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## JConnolly (Feb 21, 2015)

neosolace said:


> Where'd you get those leveling feet? I like those!


The levelers are just 6" bolts, 1/2" diameter, that run through the nut embedded in the cross member. That stand in the photo is sitting on granite posts but anything else works fine. The steel leveler bolt is what holds it up and the only path for ants to climb onto the stand is to ascend the leveler bolt where it runs into the grease cup. 
Orienting from that picture, there is another hive stand to the left that is the same design but sized to hold just one stand, then a three hive stand behind where I stood to take that picture. That was where I ran out of granite posts. To the right, if you turned the corner on the gravel path, is another single hive stand with the levelers on cinder blocks, and then next to it a 3 hive stand of the same design that sits on landscaping timbers. Anything hard that the ends of the leveler bolts can rest on works.


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## deerslayer8153 (Mar 17, 2015)

There are different grades of treated pine at the big box stores. Look at the tag on the end of the board, I'd only use the ones labeled "ground contact". The other grade will not last nearly as long.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

My hive stands are cinder blocks stacked two high with a pair of 8' PT pine 4x4s laid on top. I have not noticed any problems. I would not use PT for anything inside of the hive. Besides, ever since they stopped using CCA, you have to use special coated fasteners in today's treated lumber.


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## Bkwoodsbees (Feb 8, 2014)

Keep it simple. Think about making single hive pallets. A simple hand truck with 2 x4 forks screwed to bottom plate and now you can move hives with ease. There is nothing permanent when it comes to bees. You will have to move them at some point in time. If not you can still move them out of way and mow underneath then move back. They are lower to ground so when you place supers on they are not too high to work. Very versatile. I have changed from cinder blocks to 4x4 on blocks to adjustable wood frame multiple hive, hive stands and finally settled on pallets. They are the best most versatile and very mobile. I am not far from going all out 4 way but not yet. I run 150 hives now and just cant push my self for extra expense of a loader , flatbed truck and trailer to carry the loader. I run very simple , utility trailer ,pick up truck and my effort. You never know where you are headed with bees, so always keep things simple ,mobile and versatile. You never know when the time will come and it will ,you will have to move your hives. With a single hive pallet it's simple as a ratchet strap, scoop and go with hand truck. Also works with loading full honey supers on trailer. I move my hives around for different floral sources for times of year and I work by myself. Just my 2 cents. Good luck remember the bees dont care about stands.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

I use it all the time. This is my latest heavy duty version for a new client. 6X6 PT on deck blocks lightly tied together with Timberlock screws. I make them this strong to irritate my friend Charlie.


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## Tim KS (May 9, 2014)

I've always use treated lumber for my stands with no problem.


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

I wouldn't even blink using treated material. All my hives are on stands that I've made with treated lumber. Even if there was a small amount of chemical rising off the wood I think it would pale in contrast to the amount of chemicals the bees are exposed to when they forage and in the foods they bring back to the colony.


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

odfrank said:


> I use it all the time. This is my latest heavy duty version for a new client. 6X6 PT on deck blocks lightly tied together with Timberlock screws. I make them this strong to irritate my friend Charlie.


Yes, because you’ll need these big beams to support the honey weight of those hives!


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Charlie B said:


> Yes, because you’ll need these big beams to support the honey weight of those hives!


Sounds reasonable to me


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

Please do not encourage him JW!


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## Cedar Hill (Jan 27, 2009)

Beek 58 yrs. Would not use treated wood at all with my bees. The effects are extremely subtle. More susceptibility to diseases, general weakness in productivity in comparison to the prior usage without treated wood. Been there done that with over 350 hives. The best advice offered is to use cinder blocks or bricks. As you will grow older, your strength to remove the heavy supers will diminish noticeably, the higher the stands the more difficult it will become to remove the heavy supers. The lower they are the more you will be able to avoid extra help for just a little while longer. OMTCW


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## B-NewBBB (Apr 9, 2014)

I don't know if these products would work for ground contact, probably not. However for all other wood supports, hive bodies, etc this is, I believe, great stuff.

We have used both,

TALL EARTH ECO-SAFE WOOD TREATMENT
TallEarth.com

and/or

ECO WOOD TREATMENT
www.ecowoodtreatment.com

They come in powder form, about $20 for a bag to make 1 gallon. Mix with water, seems very thin in the application and runny so you can't load the brush up, take your time in applying while listening to "Inna-Gadda-da-Vida". It may look like you haven't done a good job. Don't worry, just be sure you have fully moistened all surfaces, let it dry for a day or two. Once out in the sun and rain, will begin to take on a most interesting tinted patina and finally "aging" to a dark tone that highlights the grain of the wood. Have used it for years.
As with all advice, look it up, do your research and be sure you are comfortable with what it is. I believe it is quite safe for bees and does not need regular reapplication for a long time.

DH


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## JConnolly (Feb 21, 2015)

Cedar Hill said:


> As you will grow older, your strength to remove the heavy supers will diminish noticeably…


I'm also 58, Are you sure? I certainly do not feel older or in worse shape. Are you sure it is not because gravity has gotten noticeably stronger the last few years?


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

JConnolly said:


> I'm also 58, Are you sure? I certainly do not feel older or in worse shape. Are you sure it is not because gravity has gotten noticeably stronger the last few years?


59 myself. I can say with absolute authority that the days have gotten longer and the nights have gotten shorter in the past 40 years. The increase in the earth's gravitational pull does not help either.


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## Cedar Hill (Jan 27, 2009)

LOL, been a beek for 58 yrs. am 83. Have noticed that the bloom on wild fruit trees and other blooming trees has increased quite noticeably within the last decade, maybe simultaneous with the human depredation of the Amazon forests ("The Lungs of the earth" as my fourth grade teacher used to repeatedly tell us). Increase in CO2 resulting. Older orchardists must be noticing this phenomena. OMTCW


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## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

JWPalmer said:


> 59 myself. I can say with absolute authority that the days have gotten longer and the nights have gotten shorter in the past 40 years. The increase in the earth's gravitational pull does not help either.


Well this is all easily explained. Everybody knows that the amount of gravity exerted by mother earth is directly related to her overall mass. What most dont know is the mother earth is gaining mass every day, and not by just a little bit.

https://www.popsci.com/60-tons-cosmic-dust-fall-earth-every-day/

I can well attest to that increase in gravity, I've observed it myself. There are many things that were an easy one hand pick up when I was in my early 20's, and today as I turn the corner past 60, they are two hands and a grunt to pick up that same item. I consider that definitive proof that gravity has gotten much stronger over the intervening 40 years.....


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## Rww930 (Mar 14, 2016)

this hive has been ground contact for 5 years. so far so good. treated and painted.


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## Rww930 (Mar 14, 2016)

Rww930 said:


> View attachment 53557
> this hive has been ground contact for 5 years. so far so good. treated and painted.


sorry about sideways photo oops


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