# TBH with a super?



## RE JOnes (Sep 17, 2011)

I have already said that I am new to beekeeping, now I have a question.
I have a 36" TBH with a small swarm that I caught on Labor Day. I also have a smaller TBH, 16", that I was going to use for a nuc. Has anyone put a super on top of something like this and had any problems?
I "assume" that on a normal hive that the honey is removed from the super and the rest is left for the bees??
My reasoning for this is that I have several people that want to use one of these small hives for pollination and it seems to me that it would be a whole lot easier to move one of these around than a big one.
Any input would be appreciated, Thanks, Robert


----------



## Adam Foster Collins (Nov 4, 2009)

I've thought a lot about this, as have many others. I think it really comes down to the right hive for the needs of the individual beekeeper.

The top bar hive really seems to need to be 4 feet long to accommodate the growth of an average colony throughout the year. Many people have made a super of some sort, but a lot have complained about the difficulty of getting bees to move up or down to use the whole thing. Top bar hives are difficult to move, and this makes them generally a poor choice for pollination. They are best for stationary or permanent situations.

Those who have supered them tend to make special top bars, which have a space made in them to allow movement of the bees. But after a lot of examination, reading and design, I decided that for me personally, it's better to make a longer tbh, or to go to another type of hive to meet the needs of expansion and mobility.

If you're stuck on using a tbh for this application, I would build one or more 4' long tbh's, then I'd prepare several boxes that were small (say holding 6 combs each - like your nuc) so that I could break it up for moving. If I wanted to go from one place to another, I'd just prepare the several boxes in such a way that I could remove the comb from the 4' and keep it in order, load it (probably at night), move it, and then reassemble it in a 4' box on location. I wouldn't super a small box. It's too complicated to build and manage, and that's not what a top bar is about.

Ease of movement is a quality the ktbh does not have. If you want it, you should look at different hives.

Others will have their own perspectives on this, but that's what I've come to after two seasons with ktbh's.

Adam


----------



## Delta Bay (Dec 4, 2009)

If you used a super that was the proper depth to hold combs from the TBH I don't see why you couldn't make it work. With a queen excluder between super and TBH you could use the lifting brood method for swarm control and honey production. Otherwise I think you would run into swarming issues with such a small space.


----------



## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Moving a bunch of supered TBH's would probably be fairly nightmarish. It would be the most difficult of any of the main hive designs to move.

However you are correct that your 16 inch hive will eventually need more room.

A single box lang is pretty easy to move, but if you really don't want to go lang, you could try a Warré, which after all, is a kind of TBH.


----------



## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Actually didn't really answer you origional question properly here is a link to a supered TBH owned by forum member Tommyt. However you should be able to see from the pic that moving these would not be a whole lot of fun.

Having said that, he did get a very good honey crop.

http://i775.photobucket.com/albums/y...t/DSCF6932.jpg


----------



## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Oops, link didn't work, here's one to the whole thread.

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?260031-Supered-Top-Bar-Hives


----------



## Beeophyte (Oct 17, 2011)

> but if you really don't want to go lang, you could try a Warré, which after all, is a kind of TBH.


This seems the best solution for using a TBH for pollination. I find the Warré hives seem to weigh less than most of the Lang box sizes with the exception of the 8 frame medium which is similer. I am planning to explore some local pollination work with my Warré Hives next summer, I will let you know how it goes.


----------



## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

Aren't you going to have combs breaking off your top bars if you start moving them a bunch? You may be exceeding design parameters. Langstroths were invented so they could be moved easily.


----------



## Beeophyte (Oct 17, 2011)

If you read Warré's book he anticipated this and has a frame mod for his hive design, many use half frames with no foundation. It seems to work just fine. Warré felt that the frame version of his hive was inferior to the fixed comb version but he said that some beekeepers might need them.


----------



## Beeophyte (Oct 17, 2011)

But in fairness Vance if a person is trying to do a pro pollination business you have a solid point the Lang offers some advantages. Numerous suppliers of replacement parts and sturdy frames that can withstand jostling.

The Warré hive could be used and used successfully but with limited suppliers a person would have to be willing to do the woodworking themselves. Of course this could also be an advantage, a Warré keeper doesn't need to mail order anything, every single part of the hive can be bought at the local Home Depot and built relatively quickly.

Warré felt his hive was suitable for commercial beekeeping and at this early stage in the game for me I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. I plan to have a farily large operation using mostly Warré hives after I retire from the service. Others have done it abroad and it can be done and done well.

Lang's are great hives, I've great respect for the accomplishments of Rev Langstroth and his hive gets the job done, no doubt about it. i just think the Warré can do it just as well.


----------



## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

A member of our bee club put a Lang super above his TBH. The bees moved up and won't move back down.


----------



## Beeophyte (Oct 17, 2011)

Was it a Horizontal or Vertical Top Bar hive?


----------



## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

It was a horizontal hive. Not sure what the arrangement for access btween the two was.


----------



## Beeophyte (Oct 17, 2011)

One of the things I love about bees is just trying to puzzle out what makes them do some of the things they do. Remarkable little creatures. On another Warré forum I am on they have been talking about having difficulty getting bees in a Lang box to move down (through an adapter) into the Warré Hive. The bees do what the bees want to do, regardless of what the beekeeper wants.


----------



## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

Ain't that the truth.


----------

