# Which way to go?



## crmauch (Mar 3, 2016)

I've been unsuccessful in swarm trapping this year (my first attempt). I think much of it is because I was never able to source brood comb (I have no bees as yet), and for most of my area I explored either very few honey bees or none (in fact, except for early this spring, I haven't even seen many other pollinators). 

According to what I've read the "spring" trapping season ends shortly (Seeley's article July 15, but since that's based in NY I figure July 4-5 here in SE PA). There's unlikely to be anything until late August into September. 

My question is, Should I try to trap in the early fall (I'm talking August into September)?

Any trapped swarms are unlikely to survive the winter. (I wonder if hives throw the fall swarms to reduce their population in insure the survival of the original hive?).

However, I might get a small amount of comb that might increase my chances of trapping next spring.

And there's a slim chance that I might be able to nurse the swarm through the winter and then I'd be ahead of the game.

No matter what, by sometime in September (or July if I decide not to fall trap), I'm going to store my traps so that they take less damage and last longer.

Thoughts?


----------



## cervus (May 8, 2016)

_swarm in May is worth a load of hay; a swarm in June is worth a silver spoon; but a swarm in July is not worth a fly_ ca. 17th century. You be the judge.


----------



## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

>My question is, Should I try to trap in the early fall (I'm talking August into September)?

What cervus said I find to be correct.

>And there's a slim chance that I might be able to nurse the swarm through the winter and then I'd be ahead of the game.

Yes; 
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?291483-Bees-in-the-Garage-for-the-Winter

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?295359-Over-Wintering-in-the-Garage-Update


----------



## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

crmauch said:


> Thoughts?


You've thought it through. I would leave them up for a late summer/fall swarm.

Would you describe your traps and locations.


----------



## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

I had 12 traps out last year and caught nothing. I left over half of them out all year. I had 16 traps out this year. I caught three swarms. Two of those were in traps I had not taken down and had just refreashed the lemongrass oil. I did have two old combs given to me that I cut up into little 2x2 inch peices and threw in the traps. Maby it helped some but I am not really sure cause I had a whole bunch that didn't catch any bees. If you find anybody that has had bees for a while, I bet the have some old black comb that is too bad for anything and that they just threw in a tub or bucket. Heck, try and add on craigs list asking for a hand out. You never know. I would also say if you really want to see if there are bees around. Wait untill you see the yellow jackets and sweat bees hanging around trash cans in parks and places like that and then try the cup of sugar water again. Maby put a drop of lemon grass oil in it or right by it to help the bees find it. You might be surprized. I find dumping a puddle in early spring when it gets to 65 or 70 degrees to be a good time to check. Sometimes it takes a day but after you see the first be on it, it won't be long till you think the whole countries bees are there.

They just mobbed the sugar water I put out early spring but I still only caught 3 swarms with 16 traps spread in about a 20 mile radious.
Good luck
gww


----------



## jadebees (May 9, 2013)

Swarming starts somewhat late here. I trap all summer, and after evaluating for best colonies i combine 2 or 3 small late swarms into a size that will winter over readily. All the comb, brood, stores, all goes into the final hive. Feeding, like any big colony, and normal treatment will help you have useful colonies in spring. Left small, they are just pets. Sometimes, they have a little honey to spare.😊

You best use for them is to think ahead. I overwintered 6 hives last year, made of 2 to 3 small swarms apiece.


----------



## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

The thing you need to consider is a swarm caught in august or September need to be strong enough to survive the winter and have enough stores to do so. It is a challenge for an experienced beekeeper to get a fall swarm prepared with all the resources of other hives. I have a few hive that are given a third deep just for such instances. You need to be well prepared to deal with an autumn swarm. IMHO


----------



## crmauch (Mar 3, 2016)

Riverderwent said:


> Would you describe your traps and locations.


None of my traps are 'standard'. Most are about 40 liters. All treated w/ LGO. All have wax melted or rubbed inside. Most have strips of plain beeswax as comb 'guides'. No frames or topbars (If I get a swarm it will be a cut-out).

Trap #1: Description: Two baskets placed together (duct taped together) w/ hole drilled in one of the baskets. I got the idea off the internet, but I believe my particular baskets are too thin to work (allow too much light). Might try wrapping both baskets completely in duct tape (to cut down light) next year if baskets holding up. Also on the small side (about 18 liters). Placement: On my property in my front yard in a sugar maple that stands by itself. I have not definitively seen a honey bee on my property this year.

Trap #2: Description: Built from plywood and scrap lumber. 11.5"X11.5"X20". ~43 liters. 1-1/2 inch entrance hole w/ nail across. For most of the swarm season it's been up ~ 15 feet hung by a rope in an elm tree in my back yard. Recently moved it to a new location on my local library. When I moved the trap, I found that a bird had put in nesting material, but I don't believe that eggs were actually laid. Location: Small grouping of trees in a Sassafras tree ~ 6 feet up (now mounted on a board and hung from a nail. I have seen a few bees at this location.

Trap #3: Cardboard Xerox type box. Two coats of paint. Determined that painting does not make it waterproof. Box is now quite deformed. Location: Recently pulled and in my garage. Trying to decide if it would be worth waterproofing and putting back out. (maybe for next year?)

Trap #4: Old plastic tub that had stored wood chips for ~20 years. Tall 'kitchen waste basket' shape. At my father's property in a lone cherry tree (No bees seen here).

Trap #5: Cardboard box almost perfectly cubical. Two coats of paint and then coated with paraffin. First board used for hanging did not hold up and had to rebuil handing bardLocation: My sister property which is less than a mile from an orchard. I have seen plenty of bees at this location. Trap is on a bamboo pole next to a row of spruce trees (facing south).

Trap #6: Build completely from scrap lumber. 17.5"X17.5"X8". 1-1/4" Entrance. Location: My church has 26 acres (mostly designated as wetlands) with a forest and a walking trail. Part of the property has a gas line cut that is open. I placed the trap along the edge of the forest facing south into the gas line. Trap facing south. Not seen any bees recently. Believe I saw a few early in spring well before box placement.


----------



## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

Traps 2 and 6 should produce. Make sure any gaps that let in light are filled. 4 drops of LGO every 2 or 3 weeks. Too much deters bees. Make sure Trap 2 is also facing south or southeast and that both are very well shaded. Once you find a productive location stick with it. It's kind of like a good fishing hole.


----------



## crmauch (Mar 3, 2016)

crmauch said:


> Placement: On my property in my front yard in a sugar maple that stands by itself. I have not definitively seen a honey bee on my property this year.


Well, I can now retract this statement. I saw a number of honey bees on my property yesterday. A few working the small patch of crimson clover I seeded this Spring, and a few more working an unfortunate patch of Canadian thistle, that was formerly my vegetable garden. Even if I don't capture bees this year, I'm pleased to see the bees. I've been concerned in general about what I would consider a dearth of pollinators this year (I've usually seen bumblebees, but it seemed like there wasn't really very many of those either.)


----------

