# Roadside mowing



## Fivej (Apr 4, 2016)

I have been against roadside mowing before I became interested and educated about pollinators. I saw it as a total waste of money for my town to spend the summer in the never-ending battle against mother nature. Since I became interested in pollinators, I have other good reasons to be against it. So I am wondering if anyone has been able to get their town to stop or limit this practice that wastes money, pollutes, eliminates foraging opportunities and takes time of the highway crew that could be better spent elsewhere. Has anyone had any success? How did you do it? Are there any studies about the effect of roadside mowing on foraging opportunities? I wonder if anyone else feels the way I do, but it drives me nuts.
Thanks, J


----------



## Buzz-kill (Aug 23, 2017)

I am unable to answer any of your questions but I agree with your opinion of roadside mowing. I have hives in illinois farm country and almost every square inch of land that is not planted in crops is mowed like a lawn. The farmers mow everything including any ditch or low spot in their fields that cannot be planted. It seems to vary from county to county though. Some are worse than others.


----------



## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Several years back, Virginia had a budgetary issue and roadside mowing was suspended. I had no idea there were so many wildflowers growing in the grass and "weeds". Unfortunantly, mowing resumed, the rest areas got reopened, and life returned to normal the next year. Sure was pretty while it lasted. Made me think of Oklahoma where I saw them baling hay in the median strip of I-35 back in the 80's.


----------



## My-smokepole (Apr 14, 2008)

Been a fight he to in Ohio. State was just about to start a pollinator programs With help with the state bee Association and at the last minute the state said it didn't want their help.


----------



## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

I have a number of hives about a 1/4 mile from a 4 lane highway that is covered with golden rod during the fall and when it starts to bloom and the bees swarm it and start bringing in a ton of nectar the highway dept mows it all down.I could get really good fall harvest if I could get them to wait a few weeks before mowing.


----------



## Nhaupt2 (May 31, 2016)

It keeps the half of the world thats not already on fire from catching on fire. People are idiots with their cigarette butts. 
but on a happier note, all the roadside projects in my area use a mix of sunflower alfalfa and several clovers to re veg their disturbed areas now. Its pretty, stabilizes the soil and is great forage for the bees.


----------



## Steve in PA (Jan 26, 2015)

Nhaupt2 said:


> It keeps the half of the world thats not already on fire from catching on fire. People are idiots with their cigarette butts.
> but on a happier note, all the roadside projects in my area use a mix of sunflower alfalfa and several clovers to re veg their disturbed areas now. Its pretty, stabilizes the soil and is great forage for the bees.


I think it is supposed to also help with deer visibility. 

I have driven the same stretch of interstate for 20 years almost daily to work. Originally it was an area between the North and South lanes left over from construction. Then the wild grasses began to fill it in, then small bushes, and finally small trees. All of that is a good thing when nature reclaims unused land. But, in a highway setting it became perfect grazing and bedding for the local deer population.

When the scrub trees were about 4" in diameter they came through and clear cut it and since then I have noticed they mow it a few times a year, maybe every other month, to keep it from getting overgrown. It doesn't look like lawn but it's mostly wild grasses again.


----------



## Buzz-kill (Aug 23, 2017)

Nhaupt2 said:


> It keeps the half of the world thats not already on fire from catching on fire. People are idiots with their cigarette butts.
> but on a happier note, all the roadside projects in my area use a mix of sunflower alfalfa and several clovers to re veg their disturbed areas now. Its pretty, stabilizes the soil and is great forage for the bees.


Or the PG&E power lines blow down in the wind is more likely. Fire is not a problem in Illinois and much of the country. It certainly isn't the reason they mow the right of ways. Historically farmers wanted it for weed control but that isn't a big problem anymore with all the chemicals they apply. The biggest problem today is we have developed a mowed grasss aesthetic in this country. Most people think everything should look like a golf course or major league baseball field. But if you can find any areas left alone they are breathtakingly beautiful when the native wildflowers bloom. And God forbid any plant finished blooming should be left standing! Around me they come in and rip the old plants out and plant something else that is in bloom and a few weeks later rip those out and put something else in. And in fall everything has to be taken down to bare ground. Never mind that these plants provide feed and cover for animals and landscape interest during the bleak winter months.


----------



## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

Steve in PA said:


> I think it is supposed to also help with deer visibility.


That is the rationale in our area, deer are a significant issue along the roads, and a serious hazard during dusk / dark hours. Roadside vegetation is managed in a way to discourage deer. Shrubs are taken out, and they spray a seed mix of things that are unattractive to the deer. On many of the roads, drainage is another serious consideration, and ditches are mowed to keep them clear for water to flow freely. They are usually dry in the summer and overgrow significantly, but, over the winter they flow heavily with runoff from the rains, and in many spots will be overflowing after a heavy rain.


----------



## roberto487 (Sep 22, 2012)

I somehow agreed with roadside mowing. This past summer I had to mow it myself because the goldenrods obstructed my visibility when pulling out of my driveway. I mowed it after a family friend was almost hit coming out of my driveway.


----------



## Fivej (Apr 4, 2016)

I understand and agree that there are some some circumstances where roadside mowing is necessary. However, it is not necessary in most of my town and most state highway areas I travel here in VT. I suspect the same is true in most states. I have to confess that when I bought my property 30 years ago, I used to brush hog my fields to keep it "neat and tidy". About 20 years ago I stopped mowing them because I became more aware of the need for habitat for birds ( I am into birds too) and other animals. I have also stopped cutting down dead trees because the woodpeckers kept me entertained and because hawks liked to perch in them looking for mice in the field (go hawks!) I even have Great Herons perching in them. After a few years of not brush hogging, we really noticed a huge population boom for various birds and butterflies, especially ground nesting birds and the monarchs on the milkweed. I stopped weed-whacking along my stream and around my small pond and we noticed (and heard) more frogs and saw more trout in the stream because it is cooler. Now I am into bees and pollinators in general and really see the value in not having a lawn everywhere.
I only own 6 acres and have observed a noticeable increase wildlife and wildlife diversity on my property. To bring it back to bees, can you imagine the difference it would make in forage if we didn't mow down all of their food? I was hoping that someone could point me to an organization that has done studies on this (such as cost/benefit, safety, etc). I plan on talking to the Road Commissioner and Town Board about this, but wanted to be armed with facts. They will undoubtedly raise various safety concerns, most of which I think are overblown. And then there is the "this is the way we have always done things" which is always the largest roadblock to doing anything different.
I am glad I am not the only one who is annoyed by the mowing. Thanks for the responses everyone. If you have any thoughts or ideas, please chime in. J


----------



## hive beetle (Sep 26, 2017)

Here is what they do in Carolina--- I see more and more of these flowers planted around major Interstate exchanges and overpass areas. Its been going on for a while and i think they are making progress. The flowers require no mowing and are self seeding I would guess. 

https://www.ncdot.gov/doh/operations/dp_chief_eng/roadside/wildflowerbook/


----------



## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

The Xerces society produced a 100 page guide for pollinator friendly roadsides.
It is titled---- Pollinators and Roadsides: Best Management Practices for Managers and Decision Makers

Available as a download in pdf format. Google the title.

Or see their publications:
https://xerces.org/pollinator-conservation-roadsides/

There are other sources of info as well, lots of them.

Our state has included roadside maintenance and pollinator seeding as part of the NYS Pollinator Protection Plan adopted in 2016.
So far, I have personally not witnessed any change on the roadsides. It appears the practical application of some ideas in the plan are difficult to achieve by the states' various agencies named in the plan, one being roadsides. The NYS PPP is available on line as well.


----------



## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

Timing makes a big difference in roadside mowing. Where concerns about keeping woody growth down to discourage deer browsing are paramount, a dormant season mowing is the most effective. Dormant season would be any time towards the end of goldenrod/asters through the winter.

This cuts off the current season's growth and to the extent that woody plants push out new growth right afterward that is too tender to survive the winter, it uses up resources stored in the roots. Then it leaves the opportunity for flowering "weeds" to occupy the sun-space all summer, further suppressing the woody growth. 

Another strategy is to do a very early summer mowing of areas with goldenrod - this results, in most years, in a second wave of flowers that shifts the flowering period for the mowed plants several weeks later, prolonging the effective period of nectar and pollen. (Unless you have an exceptionally early frost.) 

But the big thing is that mowing, at least in my area, is a "traditional" highway maintenance activity. And it's one that strikes me as relatively low-cost, at least compared to other forms of highway-care activities. Modern equipment, like articulated-arm bush hogs also make it easier to do. I think lots of people see tidy highway edges as the public version of their well-trimmed lawns. 

I really hate seeing stands of viper's bug gloss and chicory sliced off just at their peak. I am in a constant tug-of-war with my town highway superintendent over mowing along the roads near my farm. I'd reached a certain _detente_ with the current one, but alas, he lost his bid for re-election last month, so I'll have to start all over.

Nancy


----------



## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

I'm glad they mow here otherwise the kochia, pigweed, and sunflowers obstruct your view to oncoming traffic on both country roads and the highway. There's also the consideration that overgrown bar pits obstruct water flow and tend to flood roads. Then there's the fire danger, we've been under fire ban multiple times this year and weve had one for almost three weeks now. The deer just come out of nowhere where the county cant mow the banks. Thank god they mow the ditches, the problem is that they don't mow them enough.


----------



## DanielD (Jul 21, 2012)

My neighbor is in excavation and has a track loader with a mower deck and is always mowing our 2 miles of gravel road, and a little bit down another road teeing off it, about 4 times a year. There's no need to make deer more visible, and there's maybe 6 cars go by in a given day. I think about saying something, but he's doing us all a favor, he assumes and I don't want to break his heart. It's just a drop in the bucket of forage around here since there is plenty of other land around to make up for it though. It's still a little sad when all the white clover or goldenrod gets cut down so I always have to tell myself it doesn't matter since there's plenty of other stuff. I can't say I let it drive me nuts.


----------



## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

On the other hand it seems that white clover and some of the mints and stuff seem to produce more blooms and bloom longer when mowed every so often. I know several flowers that produce new bloom if you cut old bloom off. I am not saying I know what I am talking about but more, I wonder if there is some kind of study that really says what is best. I just remember as a kid, I was told that red clover (bees don't use) used to have to be mowed every so often to stay strong.
Cheers
gww


----------



## exmar (Apr 30, 2015)

Guess it varies from place to place. My farm is on a county road and it's mowed about 4-5 feet on each side. This allows us to see oncoming traffic when pulling out of a driveway or secondary road. Due to budget or whatever, one year they didn't mow at all, surprising how tall things got, several accidents occurred. Also agree that during that year, a lot of "unknown" flowers and things appeared.


----------



## Fivej (Apr 4, 2016)

If you have a hard time seeing getting out of your driveway, you should mow whatever you need in order to be safe obviously. I do in front of my house. I do not believe it decreases deer collisions at all, unless they are attracted to medians to eat as someone pointed out. Nor does it decrease hitting squirrels, chipmunks, etc. They can't make up their minds on which way to run. I also believe the cost is nothing to laugh at. My small town (pop 600) pays approx $14,000 per summer just to mow. My brother's small town in western NY pays 3 guys to mow full-time throughout the summer. They probably make more in NY, but that would be higher than $42,000, plus mowers, plus tractors, plus gas, plus wear and tear. I'd rather that money be spent on culverts, maintaining shoulders, paving etc and providing more forage to pollinators. It adds up. Thanks for the Xerces Society suggestion. J


----------



## Fivej (Apr 4, 2016)

For those interested, the Xerces Society does make the case for managed roadside cutting. Besides improving forage for pollinators, managed roadside cutting helps control erosion, reduces highway maintenance costs, run-off, pollution, road salt in the waterways, etc. 
https://xerces.org/tag/roadsides/


----------



## Fivej (Apr 4, 2016)

State and Federal highway agencies manage well over seventeen million acres of roadside lands. Let that sink in. Seventeen million acres. 
http://www.xerces.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/Wings_Spring2015.pdf


----------



## tnmtn (May 27, 2016)

Thank you so much for the information in this thread!!

I live in one of the most biodiverse places in the world. It breaks my heart every time they mow our rural roads. The rational is safety because the roads are rural and mountainous and it is difficult to see sometimes. If I put up signs that tell them not to mow on my property they will leave it alone but every place else is fair game. This year they began a spraying program that targets woody perennials. It may save some wildflowers but plants like flame azaleas and others will be wiped out.

I'm taking this information to the mayor! She's pretty "green" and sees the advantage of preserving our natural beauty.


----------



## Eyeman (Oct 23, 2016)

Fivej said:


> I have been against roadside mowing before I became interested and educated about pollinators. I saw it as a total waste of money for my town to spend the summer in the never-ending battle against mother nature. Since I became interested in pollinators, I have other good reasons to be against it. So I am wondering if anyone has been able to get their town to stop or limit this practice that wastes money, pollutes, eliminates foraging opportunities and takes time of the highway crew that could be better spent elsewhere. Has anyone had any success? How did you do it? Are there any studies about the effect of roadside mowing on foraging opportunities? I wonder if anyone else feels the way I do, but it drives me nuts.
> Thanks, J


Here is a pretty comprehensive document that appears well thought out.
http://www.snh.org.uk/pdfs/publications/commissioned_reports/551.pdf


----------



## glennster (Apr 4, 2016)

Buzz-kill said:


> Or the PG&E power lines blow down in the wind is more likely. Fire is not a problem in Illinois and much of the country. It certainly isn't the reason they mow the right of ways. Historically farmers wanted it for weed control but that isn't a big problem anymore with all the chemicals they apply. The biggest problem today is we have developed a mowed grasss aesthetic in this country. Most people think everything should look like a golf course or major league baseball field. But if you can find any areas left alone they are breathtakingly beautiful when the native wildflowers bloom. And God forbid any plant finished blooming should be left standing! Around me they come in and rip the old plants out and plant something else that is in bloom and a few weeks later rip those out and put something else in. And in fall everything has to be taken down to bare ground. Never mind that these plants provide feed and cover for animals and landscape interest during the bleak winter months.


being both a farmer and bee keeper i have to disagree with buzz kills assessment that weed control isnt a big problem with farmers anymore. weed control is a huge problem. i farm in livingston county illinois. we keep ditches mowed to stop seed banks of invasive and destructive weeds from spreading into fields. weed control costs huge money. currently we have marestail, waterhemp, pig weed, poison hemlock,canada thistle and palmer amaranth that threaten crop production. marestail, waterhemp, canada thistle and palmer amaranth are round up resistant. with soil conservation type farming using no-till, minimum till and vertical tillage practices weed control is paramount. roadside weeds also get distributed by vehicle traffic. take a ride down any interstate and look at weed dispersal. interstate 55 south of bolingbrook on to springfield is a typical example. weeds like waterhemp, pigweed and palmer amaranth produce in excess of 200,000 seeds per plant, and the seeds can lay dormant in the ground for several years. another reason for roadside ditch mowing is to keep water drainage open so fields can drain quickly. usda has programs available such as the crp program, ie conservation reserve program where highly erodible soil areas are taken out of production and native plants and grasses are planted for wildlife. there was a pollinator program that started a few years ago where you could set aside acreage and the usda supplied pollinator friendly seeds. however the seeds supplied were contaminated with palmer amaranth, forcing the farmers to do a burn down spray to clean up the mess. most pulled out of the program. i have bee food plots planted on my farms, white and yellow clover, buckwheat, and native wild flowers. also i have an orchard of fruit trees along with various berry bushes.


----------



## UTvolshype (Nov 26, 2012)

Be very happy with mowing! The Georgia DOT sprays the ROW on almost all state highways and all that grows is field grass. So between the pine dominated woodland and the highways, all these bees in North Georgia have is bottom lands, clear cut areas, (2X) mowed county roads, lawns and old farm lands with chicken coops. Well it's not that bad but sometimes I think it is.


----------



## Fivej (Apr 4, 2016)

Eyeman said:


> Here is a pretty comprehensive document that appears well thought out.
> http://www.snh.org.uk/pdfs/publications/commissioned_reports/551.pdf


Thanks Eyeman.


----------



## Fivej (Apr 4, 2016)

Glennster: While roadside mowing may help with your weed control, it has to be minimal. Birds and wind will drop seeds from miles away. While your fields may drain more quickly, the lack of vegetation prevents the filtering of silt, salt and chemicals from your fields to the waterways. The lack of vegetation also greatly contributes to flooding. Studies in Vermont after Hurricane Irene revealed that rivers and streams that were not previously dredged and cleared of weeds and debris controlled flood waters by slowing the flow dramatically. Those downstream of areas that had been cleared suffered the most damage. J


----------



## glennster (Apr 4, 2016)

fivej, not sure how you figure weed control will be minimal with mowing. any noxious weeds that go to seed will end up in the field. pig weed, water hemp and palmer amaranth producea couple hundred THOUSAND seeds per plant. they can reproduce three to four times a year. palmer amaranth after it gets four inches tall cannot be killed by any herbicide that can be sprayed on an agricultural field. it must be manually removed from a field and burned. that means walking a field with a hoe, digging it out and carrying out of the field. try walking a hundred acres a day in the hot sun. as far as erosion control, all my fields are tiled for underground drainage as are most farms in our area. i have spent tens of thousands of dollars in erosion control buffer zones along my waterways. losing topsoil and chemical applications due to erosion cost big money. that is why soil conservation tillage practices are the norm. ponding water in a planted field will kill a crop after a few days. my input cost typically for an acre of corn or soybeans is roughly 450.00. a replant due to flooding wipes out you profit at the end of the year. housing developements put far more water run off and chemicals in the rivers than farms do. blasting your yard with weed and feed, 24-d and dicamda to keep dandelions down all goes down the sewer system as soon as it rains.


----------



## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

Around here, resistant weeds come from row crop land that has been sprayed the same herbicides for multiple years, this is rare but it does happen farmers end up using a stronger herbicide to control it. My farmer rotates roundup beans and a broad leaf herbicide for corn, this prevents resistant weeds, which we have had none to date. We don't spray anything that is not row cropped, we have standing weeds on four sides of our crops. There is also 160 acres of cut hay that is filled with wild flowers (weeds) much of the year just south of us.

Using roundup beans followed by roundup corn is a disaster waiting to happen. 

There are way to manage resistant weeds, cutting roadways is not listed.

https://extension2.missouri.edu/g4907

Different weeds seed at different time throughout the year, cutting road ways once a year will only prevent a small percentage of weeds from seeding, many weeds will just re-sprout another flowering stock. MDOT cuts our roadways annually just in time to for the monarch butterfly migration, as adults lay eggs on the standing milk weeds, also preventing milk weed from propagating. Overnight we go from a landscaped filled with flowers to clumps of dead grass along our road ways.

And it only takes thousands of gallons of fossil fuel to accomplish this.


----------



## wadehump (Sep 30, 2007)

That is wrong I work for the state and we have an area that is about 13 acres that will be planted in the spring. This area will not be mowed at all and will left for pollinators. All the mowing that is on four lanes are not to be mowed back until after OCT 15 that gives the wild flowers time to bloom and seed back. 2 Lanes are mowed back sooner than that due to safety issues with site distance.


----------



## roddo27846 (Apr 10, 2017)

wadehump said:


> That is wrong I work for the state and we have an area that is about 13 acres that will be planted in the spring. This area will not be mowed at all and will left for pollinators. All the mowing that is on four lanes are not to be mowed back until after OCT 15 that gives the wild flowers time to bloom and seed back. 2 Lanes are mowed back sooner than that due to safety issues with site distance.


I'm happy to see that the state of Ohio is giving some thought to this issue. I hope that all of our state governments are thoughtful. 

But roadsides are not the only area that could be thoughtfully managed for pollinators. This year in our area the power companies sprayed their easements with something that killed everything right at the height of the goldenrod bloom. Thousands of acres, I would guess, were sprayed. I have seen similar areas sprayed by railroad companies on a semi-annual basis. There has to be a better way.


----------



## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

While being a sustainability activist here, I am FOR roadside mowing because:

1)Many (most?) times, overgrown roadsides create safety issues due to reduced visibility and bringing animal-related hazards too close to the roadway. So - let us do no harm first.
2)I don't really want my bees be harvesting polluted nectar/pollen right next to the roadway anyway (either for themselves or for human consumption).

However, indiscriminate mowing in parks, water-ways and other non-roadside locations usually amounts to waste of money, time, and destruction of habitat and insect pastures (including honey bee pastures).
I actively work against indiscriminate mowing in my own city and encourage others to do the same.
Restoring insect habitat from vegetation is one way to do this (e.g. creating "bug sanctuaries" in public parks). 
Everybody wins when wasteful mowing is reduced.

My 2 cents.


----------



## Buzz-kill (Aug 23, 2017)

glennster said:


> being both a farmer and bee keeper i have to disagree with buzz kills assessment that weed control isnt a big problem with farmers anymore. weed control is a huge problem. i farm in livingston county illinois. we keep ditches mowed to stop seed banks of invasive and destructive weeds from spreading into fields. weed control costs huge money. currently we have marestail, waterhemp, pig weed, poison hemlock,canada thistle and palmer amaranth that threaten crop production. marestail, waterhemp, canada thistle and palmer amaranth are round up resistant. with soil conservation type farming using no-till, minimum till and vertical tillage practices weed control is paramount. roadside weeds also get distributed by vehicle traffic. take a ride down any interstate and look at weed dispersal. interstate 55 south of bolingbrook on to springfield is a typical example. weeds like waterhemp, pigweed and palmer amaranth produce in excess of 200,000 seeds per plant, and the seeds can lay dormant in the ground for several years. another reason for roadside ditch mowing is to keep water drainage open so fields can drain quickly. usda has programs available such as the crp program, ie conservation reserve program where highly erodible soil areas are taken out of production and native plants and grasses are planted for wildlife. there was a pollinator program that started a few years ago where you could set aside acreage and the usda supplied pollinator friendly seeds. however the seeds supplied were contaminated with palmer amaranth, forcing the farmers to do a burn down spray to clean up the mess. most pulled out of the program. i have bee food plots planted on my farms, white and yellow clover, buckwheat, and native wild flowers. also i have an orchard of fruit trees along with various berry bushes.


A weed is a man-made construct. A weed is simply a plant growing where a human doesn't want it growing. If you were in Minnesota (and it could happen in Illinois) the DNR would tell you that your white and yellow (I assume sweet clovers) are invasive species and you could not plant them.


----------



## John D. (Sep 5, 2007)

In my area, I don't see the county or state mowing the ROW's until after the Spring wildflower bloom is over.


----------



## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

John D. said:


> In my area, I don't see the county or state mowing the ROW's until after the Spring wildflower bloom is over.


What would Texas Highways photograph if they mowed the wildflowers? more importantly,
Lady Bird would roll over in her grave and the Wildflower Center would take up arms.


----------



## CLSranch (May 15, 2017)

I myself would mow at the end of my town on each side several times a year if my tractor would stay running. Because I (nobody) can see around the corner either way. But if my bee's make 1 more lb of honey and 2 more dove make it, I guess I shouldn't worry about my $30,000 truck or my son in my wifes car when you take the turn and get hit my a 1-ton dually loaded with 20 800lb steers. Or that single mom of 2 that hits the ditch after hitting a dear. Mowing next to your driveway didn't save her life or the kids being put into foster care.

Yes their is a lot of wasted mowing. Fight about that. Roadside mowing helps everyone even at the height of goldenrod. They at least got some of the pollen 1st.

Yes I read and heard both sides through this whole forum. I wanted to reply the other day (week) but after seeing the pro's get bashed down I thought I'd comment.


----------



## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

Mowing here in MO does not seem to prevent any animals from getting hit. If anything there are more dead animals on mowed roadways than not (but this probably has nothing to do with mowing). 

The number one cause animal collision damage in the US is deer. Most deer are hit in Oct and Nov after everything has been mowed or dies off for winter. Most deer hits are during twilight when a mowed roadway is not likely going to make a difference. 

Deer prefer to graze on short grass this will bring them closer to the mowed roadways to feed on new growth where they might not normally be. 

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/2016/09/19/odds-high-youll-hit-deer-iowa-year/90703564/

IME it's not usually the first deer that gets hit, it's the one(s) following the first deer. Knowing this can prevent many encounters.

I am not saying don't mow, I am saying a managed plan, that incorporates safety, pollution, erosion, wildlife and pollinators. All while saving fuel and labor.


----------



## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

In a lecture at a nature conservation fair at the weekend I learned how much the mowing of margins and roadsides decimates biodiversity (insects and plants) and how much we indulge in the ordeal in Germany.
In addition, a lot of rainwater flushes the farmland, because it is no longer restrained by plants.
Now much is renatured with tax money, before, the flowers did not cost anyone anything.
I also liked seeing wildflowers instead of garbage.
Everything is full of garbage after mowing.
The mowing kills all kinds of animals, amphibia or hedgehogs, more than they are killed by traffic.
Only the predator birds like mowing and the car drivers who want to race.


----------



## username00101 (Apr 17, 2019)

The obsession with mowing is difficult for me to understand. 

One of the big problems seems to be the value of property. So long as real estate prices stay artificially elevated, the property owners will have an incentive to make them appear "valuable".

Farmers and real estate home-owners seem to have a particular hatred for pastures. Real estate Landowners with large open plots seem to be the worst offenders, and religiously mow their land like they're actually accomplishing something.

If these landowners would just let their lawn turn to hay, and make a crop once a year, they'd save their $3000 lawn mower, and might actually make some sort of income, even if it's just a couple of bales of hay.


----------



## Earthboy (May 16, 2007)

Several years ago, I wrote a letter ODOT (Oklahoma Department of Transportation) not to mow the shoulders of highways before the bloom of sweet clovers as per Obama initiatives; however, they did not give a dime about my plea. Yellow and white sweets are mowed BEFORE they even bloom. What a misdirected energy and waste.

Now can we all extend this view to our lawns, millions of acres of green desert in which we pour millions of herbi- and insecticides and zillion gallons of water, the most precious and dwindling resource. But the lawn does not yield an iota of food we can eat; when was the last time, we had an afternoon tea party after mowing the lawn clean? It's all show and vanity that harms nature. No, I am not even talking about the carbon exhaust shooting into the air we breathe every weekend.

Now I do not mind mowing around the house to get rid of ticks, etc, but do we really need to mow ten and twenty acres you own? For what? Yet these are the same people complaining about disappearing habitat for pollinators. The gall.

Do we have to repeat the same thing year after year while expecting a different outcome???

Earthboy


----------



## Nelsonhoneyfarms (May 19, 2019)

Texas waits for the wildflowers to seed out to mow the highway ROW on state highways and farm to market roads. The Indian Paintbrushes, Indian Blankets, Bluebonnets, and blacked-eyed Susan’s etc are beautiful every year because of it. The bees enjoy the clover and purple veche because of it too. 

However, sometimes not mowing promotes woody species and bunch grasses to take hold. Depending on the species, those can shade out the sod forming grasses. Sod forming grasses such as Bermuda and others can protect the ditches and side slopes from substantial erosion, something the highway engineers try to design for. So I guess I can see both sides of the argument depending on the specific location, plant species, and ditch maintenance issues.


----------



## DanielD (Jul 21, 2012)

username00101 said:


> The obsession with mowing is difficult for me to understand.
> 
> One of the big problems seems to be the value of property. So long as real estate prices stay artificially elevated, the property owners will have an incentive to make them appear "valuable".
> 
> ...


One thing about making hay, if there aren't any animals nearby that eat it, or no equipment nearby that would bale it, there may not be that incentive to turn it into hay. Un mowed fields also attract more critters that may disturb the people living nearby. My property has 12-13 acres around me of hay, and before it's cut, there are more critters lurking around the place. My property, and I like the hay income, though small. I also can deal with any critter that causes grief. Maybe some developer that lets his property go "natural" may end up with a den of foxes or some rare animal in it and end up being banned from developing it. There's all kinds of reasons for mowing the property, I would bet.

Also, a mowed development would be more attractive to a buyer most of the time. It not only looks pretty, but they would prefer that the adjacent vacant land would be maintained around them. The developer's business isn't in cattle. There's probably more value in the mowed grass as advertisement than the value of hay. 

I don't think a farmer would hate pasture, but if they have no livestock to eat it, they'd have no productive use for it. They are businessmen too. 

I have read a bee hive can cover up to 8,000 acres of land.


----------



## username00101 (Apr 17, 2019)

These landowners seem to care more about their perceived property value than anything.

These landowners would rather look out their window and see 100 acres of mowed rolling hills than a single wildflower.


----------



## DanielD (Jul 21, 2012)

No one is an "offender" in this. Everybody cares more about their own perceived property value than what someone else perceives their property is worth. That's the way it is and they have that right to do, at least for now in this country, so as long as it isn't harming the well being of another. Problems arise when someone want's their perceived property value placed upon the property of someone else. Think about that. Someone wants property owned by someone else to be managed to benefit them instead of the owner.


----------



## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

username00101 said:


> These landowners seem to care more about their perceived property value than anything.
> 
> These landowners would rather look out their window and see 100 acres of mowed rolling hills than a single wildflower.


I know, it's absolutely terrible, those folks that own the land use it in the way they want to use it, and are not checking with you if it's an acceptable way to use it. But you know, if you went and bought a bunch of land in the area, then started a large HOA, maybe you could fix that, and soon force everybody in the area to do things your way.....


----------



## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

grozzie2 said:


> I know, it's absolutely terrible, those folks that own the land use it in the way they want to use it, and are not checking with you if it's an acceptable way to use it. But you know, if you went and bought a bunch of land in the area, then started a large HOA, maybe you could fix that, and soon force everybody in the area to do things your way.....


+1 this thread makes me want to go buy a new brush hog, ahhh so many acres so little time.
I'm with Greg, not sure I want to eat the honey or pollen from the first 4 feet of road. Some gnarly dirt.
And sorry folks safety, for the drivers will trump Pollinators every time. Seeing that deer or Kid piling out of the ditch 4-6 feet sooner is a big help. I have driven 1.6 million miles for work in 24 cars, totaled 3 on deer, ditched 2 for a humans. Mowing is GOOD.

GG


----------



## Fivej (Apr 4, 2016)

Total bs that mowing prevents any car vs big animal crashes. If you are swerving for squirrels, you are more of a road hazard. As for humans, your roads need shoulders if they have to mow to the road. I live in the middle of nowhere in a poor town and we have gravel shoulders. As for "dirty nectar", you are really on a limb. GG, are you saying there was no mowing when you had issues? I bet not. How do I know? Because they mow everywhere and it hasn't prevented a deer or moose from bolting into the road in a single leap from outside the mowed portion. I have had my share of deer vs car. All mowed roads and unavoidable as you admit. J


----------



## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

Fivej said:


> Total bs that mowing prevents any car vs big animal crashes. If you are swerving for squirrels, you are more of a road hazard. As for humans, your roads need shoulders if they have to mow to the road. I live in the middle of nowhere in a poor town and we have gravel shoulders. As for "dirty nectar", you are really on a limb. GG, are you saying there was no mowing when you had issues? I bet not. How do I know? Because they mow everywhere and it hasn't prevented a deer or moose from bolting into the road in a single leap from outside the mowed portion. I have had my share of deer vs car. All mowed roads and unavoidable as you admit. J


ok then total BS on mowing having Zero impact on car deer crashes, which I have had many and avoided many more.
yes the deer and moose cross the road up here now an elk once and a while. the more time you have the better chance to avoid.
Never said I swerve. I swerve for Nada except humans, too many swerve then dead drivers. the squirrels and such is not even a slow down, the crashes you need to walk home from are the ones I am referring to. big dogs , deer, cows, horses, moose, elk, and such.

does not prevent critters from "bolting" onto the road, it gives me .5 to 1.5 sec more time to react , which is to safely brake. And if they leep, then you hit them....

GG

there is a lot of grime on the road edges, salts, tire pieces, oil drips, butts, not sure that is "food harvesting" space. Now entirely mowing the medians I can agree with you.

Some country roads sure , all the roads not so much.


----------



## Trin (May 6, 2020)

It might help to understand deer population by state and locality. I have traveled many of the nations highways and it is very noticeable that you can pass through some states and see nary a road kill. This is not the case in Michigan. I see more road kill animals in Michigan than in any other state. Living here is not a bias in this case. I see road killed deer every day. At one time there was some sections near where I live that had populations of over 200 deer. I know, we counted them. So yes I prefer mowing roadsides and center sections because Deer kill people every year from the collisions. We also pay higher insurance premiums because of them. Not to mention hitting a bear is like hitting a stump... https://healthresearchfunding.org/21-significant-deer-car-accidents-statistics/

Many of the local farmers mow their roadsides because of the deer issue. They have kids. ON the other hand planting corn up to the roads edge creates a none winnable encounter with deer. You might even need to be lucky and quick on your feet when walking down such roads. I know this personally.

When my kids take driver education they get a trip with dad who schools them on vigilant driving habits. I have had some night driving trips of about three hours where I stopped counting the number of deer somewhere around 80.....had to stop several times to honk and try to get them off the road. 

It might be possible to plant low height plants like dutch clover. I'm sure there are some low height plants that can be planted that wouldn't need mowing. 

"Total bs that mowing prevents any car vs big animal crashes" Oh please, you don't know what you are talking about.


----------



## DanielD (Jul 21, 2012)

username, you keep editing your posts to tame them down after someone responds. You called land owners who mow their land "offenders" then erase it. I will have to remember to reply with quote.


----------



## username00101 (Apr 17, 2019)

This is my opinion, if you find it offense, just take it as an opinion.

Landowners who purchase $3000 mowers and then mow their acres without turning it to Hay are essentially just wasting resources. 

That'd be like someone logging their property and allowing the wood to rot.


----------



## DanielD (Jul 21, 2012)

No offence, just trying to offer a different perspective on what the land owner may be considering. They may have a different resource than what you see. I see every flower out there after having bees and very much like seeing un mowed ditches and fields, but know it isn't mine to determine what the value is on someone else's property.


----------



## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Mowing passages whilst leaving patches of wildflower is just as presentable (vs. the manicured lawn).
Especially if those flower patches are maintained to have variety of flowers (not just thistle).
Some people do it even on their front lawns.
A neighbor few houses over has done it and I hope this will become trendy.


----------



## Trin (May 6, 2020)

Mowing is sometimes used as an essential management practice for improving wildflower acreage. It is sometimes a substitute for proscribed burns. 

It's not like grass has inalienable rights. If you want to control what happens on a said piece of land buy it yourself. There are a lot of things one can do with what they own, beauty is, after all, in the eye of the beholder.

Not liking golf, is not a reason to trash golf course owners for mowing. They did purchase the land and sink an awful lot of money into improving it as they wished, after all it is their livelihood.

And, oh by the way, there is a legitimate practice of logging a property and letting the wood rot. It's part of some wildlife habitat management programs.


----------



## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Trin said:


> ...beauty is, after all, in the eye of the beholder.....


Not really, beauty is all about trends and current fashion marketing (and, thus, subject to manipulation).

With smart populace manipulation, everything (food, dress, lawn care, housing) can turn 180 degrees before you know it.
And so, indeed, acres of mowed lawns are nothing but a current trend (caused by current perception of values) - only the rich could afford such things in the past, and now look - everyone can afford it! 
And so we do it to demonstrate the higher standards of living - because otherwise would be similar to living in tasteless slums.

Of course, the rich-wanna-bees always copy the rich looks (even if just the pretense - food, dress, living). 
All it is to it. 
Heck, my front lawn is mowed too - the neighborhood pressure (at least my backyard is an non-conventional eye sore - and I mean it that way).

As soon as the rich (and the numerous fashion crowd) will declare the mowed lawns are out of fashion, the rest will follow just the same.


----------



## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

username00101 said:


> This is my opinion, if you find it offense, just take it as an opinion.
> 
> Landowners who purchase $3000 mowers and then mow their acres without turning it to Hay are essentially just wasting resources.
> 
> That'd be like someone logging their property and allowing the wood to rot.


Not that I find you opinion Offensive, more spoken from Ignorance.
Do you own a property that needs mowing? Ok thought so.

So mowing CAN enhance flowering meadows. If left alone meadows go to bushes then trees, its called succession. So Some mowing preserves grassland, similar to a prescribed burn.
Some flowering species need the cool season grass mowed back to allow it to thrive.
Some mowing is to prevent, invasive species
some mowing is to prevent Roundup resistant weeds from taking over areas.
Some mowing is for safety
Some mowing is to promote new growth , like food plots, where some critters like the eat the new growth, then We eat the critters that come to the new growth. So One could say mowing can lead to steaks on the grill.
Some mowing is to allow the mowed grass to break down faster adding humus and retaining moisture.

And then there is my favorite, mowing to offend the neighbors, who think they know more than you and should decide for my property what I should do.

GG


----------



## Trin (May 6, 2020)

I don't particularly like unnecessary mowing, I mow the lawn so the kids can run around and play without tripping...........

I moved out of the city to get away from the Jones's. 

Blaming the rich? Don't hold to that mentality. Glad to live in a constitutional republic. I laugh at the nonsensical rich. ..........That's another discussion.


----------



## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

Ah Hah the secret is revealed.

As soon as the rich (and the numerous fashion crowd) will declare the mowed lawns are out of fashion, the rest will follow just the same.

So work 2 or 3 jobs , get rich, hang with the trend setters and start a new fashion, with your newly bought property, NOT mowing....
then offer how you are saving the pollinators and try to get a huge following.

you all have a front yard,, start now, demonstrate how you are with the newly created in crowd.

tada easy peasy.


----------



## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Gray Goose said:


> Ah Hah the secret is revealed.
> 
> As soon as the rich (and the numerous fashion crowd) will declare the mowed lawns are out of fashion, the rest will follow just the same.
> *
> ...


GG, mark my word - this will happen just like so.
The Westerners are always looking for some latest fad/toy/thing - how it works.
PS: to be sure - there always the few going the other direction (still, only a few).


----------



## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

GregV said:


> GG, mark my word - this will happen just like so.
> The Westerners are always looking for some latest fad/toy/thing - how it works.
> PS: to be sure - there always the few going the other direction (still, only a few).


well I am way ahead of the trend then.
in my 20s I worked massive Over Time and was single so stacked up some funds.
Ended up buying 150 acres and then added 80 more contiguous.

I then a few years later put 60 Acres into the WRP (Wetland Reserve Program) It has been almost 20 years, no cow or horse on the property, no plowing or hay harvesting.
It is a giant meadow, I did plant a few trees down the road edge to prevent Shinning and poaching. 
Not sure I would do it again , it has been a giant PITA. fortunately I only did a 30 year so in 8 or so more years , I can again do as I wish.

as far as the fad thing I do see a lot more wild flower plantings in Medians and near on ramps, so the trend is starting.

most communities have lawn requirements so that one will take more time.
Here if you do not mow eventually the city will mow for you and send you the bill, with fines and interest of course, levied as a lien.

"the Westerners" is a big lumping,, maybe it will come to pass.

Lead, follow or get out of the way...

GG


----------



## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Gray Goose said:


> ..........
> 
> most communities have lawn requirements so that one will take more time.
> Here if you do not mow eventually the city will mow for you and send you the bill, with fines and interest of course, levied as a lien.
> ...


I bragged before, but I will again 

Myself and two guys were able to have the our city stop mowing the water ways in my neighborhood.
Yep, we did it.
There were opposition folks but they lost (am sure they are still grumpy about it; and they are illegally mowing some of the water way, anyway, next to their property - I choose to ignore that transgression rather than report them).
The opposition folk argument - mosquitoes!
Well, to control mosquitoes, we'd need to drain ALL the water retention ponds in the area (not mow the flowers down).
Besides, this is WI; you live here - you put up with mosquitoes OR you move.

This is the water way now - the beautiful bird and bug sanctuary that it is.
They used to mow this beauty twice per a year (that was some stupid disaster - see my letter below).


----------



## WaverlyBees (Jul 13, 2012)

username00101 said:


> This is my opinion, if you find it offense, just take it as an opinion.
> 
> Landowners who purchase $3000 mowers and then mow their acres without turning it to Hay are essentially just wasting resources.
> 
> That'd be like someone logging their property and allowing the wood to rot.


Sounds like you might want to get in the hay business  So let's see, instead of a $3,000 (your number, not mine) mower, you'll need a tractor at, ohhhh, $50,000 - $75,000, a cutter at $15,000, a rake at $20,000, a baler at $30,000, ohhhh, and let's not forget you'll need to fertilize said hay. Now your all set, well, almost ........ you still need a use for the hay ....... livestock or someone to buy it. Ahhh, we forgot maintenance and fuel for all this equipment and we will need a shed to keep it out of the weather for the 8-9 months of the year we are not using it. What am I leaving out ........ ohhhhh ....... the one thing we can't control ..........Mother Nature. You must cut hay when its time to cut hay regardless of anything else you may have going on in life like jobs, vacations, hobbies, beekeeping, etc. You will have to depend on Mother Nature to water said hay or spend $$$$$$ to irrigate. I could go on and on but I think you get my point. Like most things in life, its not as simple as it may appear.

Now, don't take the above as me being offended by your comments. You are welcome to your opinions and I certainly respect and will defend that right but be careful of what you ask or expect others to do with their property, especially if your opinion has no foundation to it. Now you may be in the hay business and if so, I'm glad to have a frank conversation, otherwise stick to whatever you have experience with. And before you ask, yes, I've been cutting hay on the family farm for 40+ years.


----------



## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

My letter to the City back in 2007 (in case someone finds this useful - feel free to copy/modify to suit your case/submit):



> To Whom It May Concern:
> 
> I would like bring to your attention a case of very poor land management practice by the City of <City Name> public works.
> This particular case took place on May 18, 2007. See the photos attached.
> ...


In this case I was squarely against mowing.
But - things should be decided based on common sense and common good (which I pointed out in my letter to the City).


----------



## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Gray Goose said:


> well I am way ahead of the trend then........
> Lead, follow or get out of the way...
> 
> GG


To be sure, I commend you, GG.
I wish more people did the same.
Long way to go yet.


----------



## Akademee (Apr 5, 2020)

My County stopped mowing medians and county land this year and the honey flow, especially the white clover, was incredible. Reducing mowing is definitely the way to go. I even stopped mowing my own acreage to encourage more wild flowers and clover.


----------



## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

GregV said:


> I bragged before, but I will again
> 
> Myself and two guys were able to have the our city stop mowing the water ways in my neighborhood.
> Yep, we did it.
> ...


:thumbsup::thumbsup:

never hurts to ask.
Nice pics

GG


----------



## Earthboy (May 16, 2007)

Akademee said:


> My County stopped mowing medians and county land this year and the honey flow, especially the white clover, was incredible. Reducing mowing is definitely the way to go. I even stopped mowing my own acreage to encourage more wild flowers and clover.


The best example of bee-friendly median I have seen occurred on I-40 in Arkansas, going west toward Oklahoma border. In April, the median was packed with crimson clovers in full bloom, miles and miles and miles: just a beautiful heavenly harmony between clean blacktop highway laced with awesome crimson flowers in the middle. What a sight. I am not sure whether crimson clovers were planted as it is annual or reseeded naturally by themselves. The sight was incredible and uplifting. If we can turn all the medians of all the highways like that, such a move will help all pollinators, just as if we mow only a few essential acres around and close to home would.


----------



## Fivej (Apr 4, 2016)

Trin, if you travel michigan you know they mow. Are you saying otherwise? Same with PA the #1 state for car/ deer crashes.


----------



## Trin (May 6, 2020)

I just got back from a 2 hour interstate trip in Michigan where I live, and yes the highways center and shoulders are mowed regularly. The main reason is visibility concerns which I share, having hit one deer a number of years ago going 70mph. No injuries driving a 1 ton van, so aside from a severely damaged vehicle, just an inconvenience. My neighbor was not so lucky, deer went through the front windshield and killed him instantly. I'm not sure how many I have hit, somewhere about 5, with enough near misses to cause me to need new bluejeans on occasion. OK that's an exaggeration, but you get the point. I test drove cars with a driving partner 8 hours/day for several years on Michigan's highways. We hit 1 turkey, 1 deer, and so many possums and raccoons that we didn't keep count. And we were very vigilant aware drivers. Part of the idea of having 2 people in each vehicle was to have 2 pairs of eyes watching the road. 90% of the driving was at night.

Looking at pretty flowers is nice, but at night when the grass gets too high the light from the headlights tends to cause some glare off the foliage which makes it harder to pick out deer. Keeping it mowed down saves lives. Simple fact. 

I happen to like medians planted with flowers. A lot better than boring grass. It could be possible to plant medians with Dutch clover or some other low height ground cover. The cost of the seed would be in the millions. But this wouldn't work long term because other wind born seeds would get established and it would get right back to visibility issues requiring mowing. Not the best environment for bees anyway. I expect a lot of them would end up in grills or on windshields. And then there is the road salt and stuff from cars. 

I knew a BK who raised queens. He had all of his hives just off the road (20 yards) with the entrances facing the road....which was littered with dead bees. Sort of what would happen around highways.


----------



## username00101 (Apr 17, 2019)

I would think that the best place for bees would be dairy farms, and cattle grazing areas.

My area was once grazed, and the few farms that still have cattle are loaded with Dutch White Clover. 

Grazing cattle seems to go hand in hand with forage and pasture.


----------



## Fivej (Apr 4, 2016)

Ok Trin. So Michigan mows and is in the top 10 of deer/vehicle collisions. PA mows and is numero uno. So please, tell me again I don't know what I am talking about. J


----------



## Trin (May 6, 2020)

You don't know what you are talking about. The high car deer accidents are because of deer density. Not because of mowing. I see deer every day. The DNR issues block permits for crop damage. A block permit is commonly issued for 20-30 deer. These are issued year around so the farmer can bring in someone to shoot that many deer. The meat is often donated to food pantries. 

What happens is that during deer season the deer move to properties that don't allow hunting, and turn mostly nocturnal. Many stay in corn fields. So the populations stay high. I can hunt in a woods in one square mile and see few deer, but driving around to the other side, I will see 30-50 or even 100 on none hunting property. I think Michigan had over 50,000 car deer accidents last year. I see them in the middle of cities. There is simply too many of them. 

I can't comprehend why mowing has anything to do with the issue other than roadsides are mowed to increase visibility so you have more time to slow down. Swerving is not recommended. Many people have been killed in roll-over accidents trying to avoid hitting deer. Where I live there are certain sections of roads where most people slow down because the deer cross there every day, all day long. Us locals call one such section of curves along a river "gut pile alley" 

We had a disease kill off 80% of the local deer population a few years back. You couldn't guess that today because the population is back where it used to be.


----------



## username00101 (Apr 17, 2019)

They don't mow the roadsides because of visibility. They mow it for vanity.


----------



## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

username00101 said:


> They don't mow the roadsides because of visibility. They mow it for vanity.


:digging:

Not sure where you are getting your information from.

GG


----------



## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

username00101 said:


> They don't mow the roadsides because of visibility. They mow it for vanity.


It is both.
Safety being a primary concern.
If anything, traffic mortality was the way to go (until COVID kept most of us at home).
Anything that helps to shave off the traffic mortality and injury is worth it.

Several years ago now, we went vacationing in TN/KN (Rocky Mountains, the Mammoth Cave, etc).
Lack of mowed shoulders in TN/KN was very hard on me - driving those little winding 2-lane back roads 55MPH (with the locals pushing from behind) was no fun at all.

Was really happy to be back in home WI - we have it good and proper.
This is one good use for the gas taxes, I am totally for it (not something to be saving on).

Speaking of vanity - this is our suburbia lawn.
Now, we are talking vanity (somewhat justified, but not at the levels it is done).


----------



## username00101 (Apr 17, 2019)

Those 6 inch crimson clovers are very dangerous and must be mowed.

There may be a deer sleeping in the clovers waiting to pounce on a driver going 80mph (who couldn't slow down and avoid a collision even with perfectly mowed roadways).


----------



## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

username00101 said:


> Those 6 inch crimson clovers are very dangerous and must be mowed.
> 
> There may be a deer sleeping in the clovers waiting to pounce on a driver going 80mph (who couldn't slow down and avoid a collision even with perfectly mowed roadways).


00101,
unsure your local situation, but again... 
Once I drove for few days the un-mowed, fast, 2-lanes in very woody areas (no road shoulders to speak off), I very much appreciate proper maintained shoulders where I live. That particular way to save on tax money in TN/KN locations I don't understand. Nonsense.

If you want to wage war on the mowing - look at the suburbs I propose.
Now - we have some valid cases (too many, in fact).


----------



## username00101 (Apr 17, 2019)

Well in my area the highways are mowed even if there's just grass, they don't do it for safety they just do it for vanity.


----------



## username00101 (Apr 17, 2019)

Suburbs are hit and miss.

Wealthy suburbs can have lots of landscaping plants.

The converted hay fields and pastures into developments are bad - people buy 10 acres and their $3000 mower.


----------



## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

username00101 said:


> Suburbs are hit and miss.
> 
> Wealthy suburbs can have lots of landscaping plants.
> 
> The converted hay fields and pastures into developments are bad - people buy 10 acres and their $3000 mower.


Well - speaking of good and clean insect pastures (which what *really *matters for us) - one can find tons of places in suburbia that can be exactly that (when vanity mowing is stopped). In my area these are water ways and retention ponds - excellent insect habitat and pastures if no excessive mowing is done. As for me, I will always loudly complain if these places are mowed and feel good about it.

Last two-three years a near cornfield was converted into a residential subdivision.
Great!
Why?
Because they created a large water retention wetland to compensate for the new paved streets (instead useless corn/soy desert).
I made sure I tossed few bags of seeds into that wetland area (the seed balls you know).

As far as the roads - skipping that battle. Not really a battle.


----------



## Trin (May 6, 2020)

I drive more miles than the average person. Often over 100 miles per day as part of my business requirements. Formerly it was 300 plus miles per day. I have hit maybe 5 deer in my life. My guess is that I have had 1000 plus near misses. This is because I am very cognoscente of the fact that deer are found throughout the state and have high populations in many areas. The main aspect I contribute to training my own kids on how to drive responsibly is to help them train themselves to not get "road fixated" but rather, how to train themselves to constantly scan the road sides for large animals and vehicles traveling toward the road from the sides. I have avoided at least 5 collisions by locking up the brakes because I saw 2 motorcycles and 2 cars and 1 dune buggy going at a high rate of speed toward my vehicle at a right angle when I had the right of way. It is highly likely there would have been fatalities in at least 3 of those incidents. 

Sight lines are very important. Higher speeds such as on limited access highways require wider sight lines. It is all about having time to react. Vanity is on the list, but at the bottom of concerns. Some people like things to look kept, that is their business. I frankly don't care about how grass looks, I care about avoiding vehicle crashes. My wife and 5 of my kids are trained as first responders, as well as myself. All I will say is that it sucks having to try to save someones life, but I will keep doing so. 

disallowing safety and calling it vanity.....? I don't get it. Having roadsides turned into bee friendly habitat that doesn't consider safety ..............:scratch:


----------



## username00101 (Apr 17, 2019)

I'd argue that the animals that rely on the flowers are just as important as the motorists.

This is not a popular opinion in our society.

Perhaps lowering the speed limit and limiting night time travel to avoid confrontations between animals and motorists?


----------



## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

username00101 said:


> I'd argue that the animals that rely on the flowers are just as important as the motorists.
> 
> This is not a popular opinion in our society.
> 
> Perhaps lowering the speed limit and limiting night time travel to avoid confrontations between animals and motorists?


You don't need to be so totalitarian about - making it a binary choice of flowers/animals vs. the motorists.
It is really not a binary choice as in "for the animals to live, the motorists must die".

More correct way to save the animals/flowers is to identify the *suitable habitat *for them and set that habitat aside for them.
Roadsides are not really critical (or even suitable) habitat for much of anything.
If you are seriously looking into Eco-system preservation, look elsewhere - there is plenty to do, if you are serious about it.

Hate it or love it, but my kids' well-being depends on their parents driving them to school and back every day 10 miles one-way.
(before COVID, to be sure).


----------



## Fivej (Apr 4, 2016)

That's what I have been saying Trin. Mowing does not reduce large animal/vehicle collisions. J


----------



## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

Fivej said:


> That's what I have been saying Trin. Mowing does not reduce large animal/vehicle collisions. J


Sorry 5J I respectfully disagree.
In the spring I can "see" maximum, all the way to the trees. the grass here was packed down from the snow.
In the fall, Late summer when the grass , and weeds are 4-5 feet tall, you see the deer when its nose comes out of the vegetation.

It is some what intuitive that as the visibility of the moving deer decreases you getting surprised will increase.

As far as collisions, we may still collide but less likely to have the car totaled and the driver dead, more likely some bent metal, and we drive home to maybe change our shorts and apply a bandaid.

As Greg has stated driving in different states, the "feel" of the road is different, with brush and weeds to the shoulder VRS having the first 4-8 feet mowed.

Not mentioned yet is the blowing snow and drifting, reduced by the mowing as well, also a safety consideration.

Also agree with the concept Greg has,, there is a place for habitat, right next to the road may not be an optimal selection criteria.

Mowing is somewhat like government, a necessary evil we may not like, but will need to endure.

I know many of the habitants of the UP of michigan, where the roads are mowed, I can vouch , Vanity is not one of their weakness.

I presume mowing was done for safety and keeping the right of way clear, and has continued, and will, until the counties are convinced that the "Vanity" is less important than the bees.

GG


----------



## Trin (May 6, 2020)

username00101 said:


> I'd argue that the animals that rely on the flowers are just as important as the motorists.
> 
> This is not a popular opinion in our society.
> 
> Perhaps lowering the speed limit and limiting night time travel to avoid confrontations between animals and motorists?


WOW, So perhaps we shouldn't drive after a rain because of all the worms on the road? Where do you draw the line? Ban mouthwash because it kills precious microbes?


----------

