# Honey "farming" by growing honey crops on large acreages?



## Smertrios (Apr 11, 2012)

Imagine a few 100 acres of land growing something like white clover or yellow sweet clover (mild and popular honeys). According to a wiki article on honey plants this could yield anywhere from 200-300 pounds an acre for the white clover and an extra 100 pounds per acre for the yellow sweet clover. Selling in "bulk" for $1.50 (this is a low price even for bulk right?) you get $450 an acre for letting some hives sit in a field of clovers. Baling the clover you get several small square bales of hay (a QUICK google search is telling me 20-500+ small bales an acre). If the clover bales are dry and compact they could fetch $2-3 a piece and the seed $2 a pound. Alot of expensive machinery involved with working the ground, planting and baling of grasses *but* used items can be had cheaply from farmers upgrading to better farming tools.

Potential:
$375 from honey
$50 from beeswax ($5 per lb, 10 pounds)
$50-$1250 from "hay"

I'm thinking the clover seed could be worth more than the hay but dont know how the seeds are mechanically harvested.

From 100% bees and 100 acres a potential of $52,500 per year exists? That doesn't include things like selling queens and bee packages or any hay harvest OR expenses. FYI I am thinking TBH's and Crush&Drain for honey harvest to keep it simple. Maybe $10,000 in taxes/expenses leaving $40,000+?

Just a dreamer? I am actually thinking more like 500+ acres but even at 100 it doesn't seem fail prone.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Well it sounds like you did all the math you need to do on it and researched it a bit. What practical experience for 500+ acres and how will you market your products?

Will you be able to sell sweet yellow clover when that is the only source in the bale? Most farmers looking to buy hay DONT want hay that has bloomed. Its less in protein once it blooms. 

Maybe dreaming. Why not start with 3 acres and see how you like the crush and strain method for your 400 lbs per acre yield of honey. That will let you see how it works with only around 1200lbs of honey to process vice 200,000 lbs on 500 acres.


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## Barry Digman (May 21, 2003)

The plan needs more work.

Are you planning on buying or leasing the 500 acres, and are you going to farm it yourself? How much will you invest either way?

I would think that the capital investment for a 500 acre farm would be substantial and that a $50k/yr gross would not provide the necessary return.


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## Ben Brewcat (Oct 27, 2004)

The numbers don't add up for most to farm for honey production, but that's not to say it can't be done. One factor to consider is that hay needs to be harvested just before the bloom to have max protein content (meaning honey is harvested on the margins or if weather/life prevent a timely mow).


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## Merlinspop (Nov 4, 2010)

Perhaps if a farmer has enough acreage and desired to 'rest' (I know there's a more correct term, but my brain is down for repairs at the moment) fields on a rotational basis, he could plant clover. But I would think the numbers would be hard to make work to have a farm solely dedicated to farming for honey. Would love to try it if it's viable.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

So if you were farming land and wanted to rest your acreage put it in CRP just after you plant the clover. Then put the hives right next to CRP boundries. Uncl Sugar pays you so much per acre of CRP and you get the bounty of the bees robbing the clover that resides on CRP.


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## rtoney (Apr 20, 2011)

How long does the contract or easement last? 
CCRP participants choose a desired contract length between 10 and 15 years. The contract goes into effect the first day of the month after which it is approved. [If the land is currently under any type of CRP contract and is within one year of expiration, the new CCRP contract will start on October 1 following the current contract’s expiration.] (In some circumstances, producers may defer the start date for up to 6 months.)

Not many now days would want to rest there land for 10 years.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

The only ones I know that are OK with it are retired and still own the farm or folks that own farms but dont really farm, they just work regular jobs.


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## doc25 (Mar 9, 2007)

I just went to a Seminar about growing Saskatoon berries. Projected yield 2-4000lbs an acre. Berries sell for $2.00/lb wholesale $4-5/lb retail. Add bees for polination and sell the specialty honey. Blueberries have about the same yield. Startup cost for plants are higher but less equipment needed in the long run might make this more interesting.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Recheck the rules on CRP lands. I believe a few years ago they changed. I believe you CAN put bees on the land(don't leave tire trails), and they encourage pollinator friendly cover.

Crazy Roland


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## Smertrios (Apr 11, 2012)

$4000-$8000 per acre is nice! How many years before you see acres of trees with enough yield? Do you need machinery for mechanical harvest and large inputs like nitrogen fertilizer and lime to keep the soil from turning too acidic?

Another twist on honey farming for the southmost USA is growing eucalyptus trees for biofuel and having sweet clover for nitrogen fixing and bees for honey. The trees are capable of producing 11 tons of dry woody material every year which has an *biomass value of about $50* a ton. With more effort you can turn the trees to cord wood for sale locally and/or sawdust to make fuel pellet ($160.00 a ton minimum if you make quality pellets). Eucalyptus oil from fresh leaves could be yet another product!

Another twist would be to plant an orchard but leave enough space between tree rows for the clover to put some "free" nitrogen into the ground near the roots. Bees around 24/7 and free nitrogen fertilizer.

Letting the clover go to seed would not be bad if *the seed* can be mechanically harvested.

Am I wrong to think that clover can provide nearly 100% of the bees food requirements?

*That said...*

I may get a hive or 2 this year to see how bee keeping works for me and use them next year on a few acres of clover if I can find a farmer that is not harvesting what they plant (here in central Nebraska).

EDIT: On second thought about eucalyptus... anyone know if the wood stinks as bad as the leaf? That might be a fuel pellet/firewood killer...


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Does the $10k expenses include mortgage/rent/ labor/ fertilizer/ tractors/woodenware/insurance/etc/etc/etc?


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## WVMJ (Apr 2, 2012)

Why would you want to be a sheep in the mass market. Dont harvest the hay, leave it for the deer and charge hunters to come in and pick out a trophy buck for 100-250$ a point. If you plant a field of wildflowers they will reseed and you can sell wildflower honey. You could also plant their favorite trees and get a higher price for that honey in the big city. Or better yet open a meadery with your local fruit and local honey and have people come to you to get local grown mead! You could have farm tours and they would up in the tasting room, a lot more fun than baling hay! Good Luck, WVMJ


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Does anyone have an idea what all the investments are? What about the necassary Farm Machinery? Tractor, bailer, mowing machine, discs and plows, planters, storeage building/s, etc., etc. Cost of land and land taxes.

There is a lot more than meets the eye. Nothing wrong w/ dreaming as long as you don't let yourself get carried away.


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## doc25 (Mar 9, 2007)

Smertrios said:


> $4000-$8000 per acre is nice! How many years before you see acres of trees with enough yield? Do you need machinery for mechanical harvest and large inputs like nitrogen fertilizer and lime to keep the soil from turning too acidic?


Somewhere between a 3-5 yr old tree will be required. They can be bought though. Mechanical harvester about $40-50K Cdn. Tractor about 40hp. Orchard sprayer about $12k. Freezer or reefer vans. Sorting table. About 3 guys to run harvester. Not much need for fertilizer. Rows spaced about 20 ft. apart so you could grow wildflowers or whatever between rows. I think price for trees is about $25k/acre (mature trees). Planting can be done by hand. All this is for Saskatoons (they are bushes not tall treees). Blueberries would require a different set up.


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## robherc (Mar 17, 2012)

I've gone over this idea with my wife several times...
The end result we always come to is that selling only the honey leaves us about 20%-50% BELOW being able to pay for the land in 10 years; not to mention property taxes. Unfortunately, that figure comes from NOT figuring in equipment costs, fuel, hive parts, bee packages, etc...

...The version I'm trying to find a way to make work at the moment involves planting extremely high nectar yield trees (Black locust...actually a leguminous tree, so nitrogen fixing too) interspersed with high-yield flowers that are overseeded with other high-yield flowers with different bloom dates (i.e. spring, summer, and fall flowers all planted on top of each other). With the Black Locust being a very nice, durable wood, I'm thinking I might be able to turn at least enough profit to pay for the land+taxes that way....IF I mill the lumber myself, and maybe even make it into something like "amish" furniture. ...TONS of work, and a huge investment though, and I'm still not 100% sure it'd be profitable.

End result, it's an awesome thought, but I'm not sure it can be made profitable; at least not easily/immediately profitable.


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## Mosherd1 (Apr 17, 2011)

So these per acre honey averages....how many hives per acre can clover support?


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

I don't know of, or have ever heard of, anyone purchasing land with the primary purpose of providing bee forage. Why buy the land when you can set your bees a reasonable distance away for a marginal fee and let the bees do their thing without the land ownership? But I don't know a thing about the lumber business, or biofuel business and putting any honey harvested into an overall land management plan seems like a reasonable thing to do, if the acreage and potential honey crops (after the expenses associated with _those_) are sufficient.

A business plan might look like a no-brainers til you pencil in the details. 
A major part of assessing any endeavor should be looking at worst case income vs expense scenarios. It is easy to talk yourself into something you want to do if you downplay the risks and negatives and let the positives make the argument. A business plan is only as useful as the numbers plugged into it.

Just take beekeeping. All commercial beeks know folks who wanted to get into bees after looking at the simple numbers and thinking commercial beekeeping is a quick way to get rich.
$xx from almonds, $xx from honey, $xx from queens, $xx from nucs. = BIG$$$$!!! Right???
Somehow the calculations fall apart when your grower doesn’t pay you or your honey crop fails or small hive beetle get into your mating nucs or the bees all die. Ooops, never thought _that_ would happen. 

I'm sure every industry has it's nightmare business-killing scenarios that MUST be put into the equation if one has any chance of success. You are running this idea past the beekeepers. Also running it by the clover growers and the "Locust tree growers", or equivelant , is a great way to get the info you need.
Good luck,
Sheri


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## robherc (Mar 17, 2012)

Mosherd1 said:


> So these per acre honey averages....how many hives per acre can clover support?


Well, I'm not exactly sure how to answer the question of "how much honey does a hive eat in a year?" except to say that it'd be HIGHLY variable, depending on the size of the hive..... The one thing I can say there, is that once you have enough bees to harvest all the nectar, every single bee over that number is "eating your profits" if you're going purely for honey production; so it'd be a VERY delicate balancing act trying to maximize honey production as your primary profit goal.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

You know what I do?

I will seed a 50 acre field of clover. First year I use a cover crop of wheat. Next year the clover stands to bloom and set seed. 
So the following year I have a yard of bees either on or close to the clover field. Great honey and lots of it. Clover seems to be one of those crops that yields well especially if you have enough rain. What I like about clover is it holds a nice long bloom starting mid of June lasting right into August. As the crop looses its flowers, as it starts to ripen, I swath the crop and harvest later for seed. With the right stand you will fetch between 35 cent per lbs to $1.50 per lbs. Average a net yield of 500 lbs per acre and you have some income without any operation costs!
Just dont ask me to combine the stuff, Ahhhhhhhhh

One thought on the baling issue. the crop will be cut at about 20% bloom so you will miss most of the honey flow unless conditions are right to catch the second bloom


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Farming land for honey production is not economically worthwhile.


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## ctgolfer (May 4, 2011)

If you planted a crop of say Borage, you could get 3 flowering crops per year and get in theory 900 lbs of honey per acre. If you could harvest the seeds and the ruffage for say hayledge to feed cows or pigs you could pull a good profit per acre. You would have to irrigate in the warmer summer months around here to get the seeds to germinate and the flowers to produce nectar. I do think you could pull a good profit with honey as the base crop. You just would have to have the right crop in the right area.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Lots of "ifs" and "rights" in your theory. Just like many other theories, actual application doesn't necassarily prove out.

But, if you set things up and prove the theoretical practical and profitible, you could make a killing.

I know this is a defeatist attitude, but if things worked as well as your theory, why aren't people doing it? Either it doesn't prove out or it isn't necassary for successful beekeeping.


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

It would be interesting to know the 900 lbs per acre theory. Im only used to the average lbs per hive.


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## chillardbee (May 26, 2005)

Alfalfa is just about as good as clover as well. with the bees supplying the pollination you could harvest the seeds for alfalfa sprouts or sowing seeds and bale up the rest as feed for cattle.


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## Barry Digman (May 21, 2003)

I know real estate around here, but have no idea what good farmland goes for. So I poked around a little and came up with this:



> LINCOLN — Farmers with fat wallets are looking for more land to buy.
> 
> But few landowners are willing to sell.
> 
> ...


The story is over a year old, but it gives some indication of price. Seems like it would take a while to pay for an acre of good farmland from honey, let alone all the farm equipment. Then add in everything for beekeeping from woodenware to a honey house and you're looking at a substantial investment. 

I'd have to actually run projections to satisfy myself that it could or couldn't be done, but it sure seems like if it were feasible that someone would be doing it already.


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## Smertrios (Apr 11, 2012)

I was not thinking about using the most prime land in the country and those prices seem more than just a bit pricey for what I know them to be selling for locally right now. The cost of one irrigated farm I have seen listed on a website has been there for years and isn't selling at under $4000.00 an acre.

Those numbers are most likely put up by a farmer who wants to be bought out and retire more rich than they already are => Just an opinion!

EDIT: Just looked at another listing for pasture land and its 920 acres and $625 per... The aerial photo makes it looks like rough terrain but the photos from the ground make it look like rolling hills not steep.


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

Smertrios said:


> Those numbers are most likely put up by a farmer who wants to be bought out and retire more rich than they already are => Just an opinion!


Farmers, most that i know, are not rich by any means. Life as a farmer is not an easy one. And may i say we work dang hard day in and day out and then day in and day out again.

The is land going for a high price. Farm land is a premium. People want it, and there is not any way to reproduce it and make more land.

Go out and buy your land. Especially with the pie in the sky ideals. Then be prepared to be knocked back to earth and have the harsh realities set in.

The tractor purchases, and repairs, the fuel, fertilizer, seed, insurance, or a custom operator to do it and pay out. Then just as the crop sets, looks like the best crop you ever had, watch the big white combine come from the sky, come and wipe it out.

farming looks easy from the road. The hard part is actually doing it and living it.


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## Smertrios (Apr 11, 2012)

deleted by me


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## RogerCrum (Jun 19, 2011)

500 acres of tillable farmland in Southeast WI would cost about $5,000,000. It takes large equipment to cut, rake, bale, load, transport and store small bales from that large an acreage during windows of good haymaking weather so figure another $500,000. Storage for 100,000 small bales, shop and indoor equipment storage will run an additional $300,000. If you do actually harvest a spectacular 400,000 pounds of honey, spend $400,000 on a high volume honey extraction facility as it is cheaper than a shrink after you try to crush and strain that volume. 

I agree with John & Sheri, why not place your hives on good locations for a modest rental fee and let the bees forage on the 18,000 acres within their range. The beauty of beekeeping is harvesting honey from land that you do not have to buy.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

RogerCrum said:


> 500 acres of tillable farmland in Southeast WI would cost about $5,000,000. It takes large equipment to cut, rake, bale, load, transport and store small bales from that large an acreage during windows of good haymaking weather so figure another $500,000. Storage for 100,000 small bales, shop and indoor equipment storage will run an additional $300,000. If you do actually harvest a spectacular 400,000 pounds of honey, spend $400,000 on a high volume honey extraction facility as it is cheaper than a shrink after you try to crush and strain that volume.
> 
> I agree with John & Sheri, why not place your hives on good locations for a modest rental fee and let the bees forage on the 18,000 acres within their range. The beauty of beekeeping is harvesting honey from land that you do not have to buy.


I agree with much of what you say Roger. Good arable farmland has become the scarcest commodity of all. Let's be reasonable about some of these numbers though. It dosent take prime farmland to raise legumes, rough, steep land that dosent accommodate large equipment can produce almost as much nectar. One need not spend 500,000 for haying equipment, I have seen it done by some for 10% of that, nor does one need to spend 300,000 on facilities for storage. Round bales keep pretty well outside, tarps are fairly inexpensive for square bales and many sell right out of the field. And of course I know you need not spend 400,000 on a honey extraction facility. One need not use exaggerated numbers, though, to make the basic argument that farming and honey production are two different entities which should each be judged on their own merits.


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## RogerCrum (Jun 19, 2011)

Jim, other than the local investment in land, my numbers are certainly just a rectal extraction. You are correct.

However, the model set forth by our friend, Smeritos, calls for clover hay in small bales not large round bales which can be left outside.

We have raised alfalfa for hay. Five hundred acres of pure alfalfa is not a task I would entrust to my old John Deere 4010, an old 12' haybine and an old hay rake. The value of the crop is in the ability to cut it in bud stage, dry it down quickly and bale it without turning the leaves to dust. Around here, that means getting the whole job done in four or five rainless days. A lot of acreage to handle all at once.

Bottom line advice would be to concentrate on bees without sinking large sums into land. Put bees in good forage areas owned by others.


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## robherc (Mar 17, 2012)

RogerCrum said:


> Bottom line advice would be to concentrate on bees without sinking large sums into land. Put bees in good forage areas owned by others.


...or be a farmer 1st, and keep bees to increase value of your crops...then the honey's just an extra "benefit" 
Either way, honey as a prime "crop" seems a marginal gain at best.


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## doc25 (Mar 9, 2007)

robherc said:


> ...or be a farmer 1st, and keep bees to increase value of your crops...then the honey's just an extra "benefit"
> Either way, honey as a prime "crop" seems a marginal gain at best.


That's how I see it too. It is two different enterprises, with some overlap. The bees can be used to add some value to your crop through increased pollination and honey. I would not buy a large "farm" with the intent on using it for honey production first and crop production second.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

RogerCrum said:


> Jim, other than the local investment in land, my numbers are certainly just a rectal extraction. You are correct.
> 
> However, the model set forth by our friend, Smeritos, calls for clover hay in small bales not large round bales which can be left outside.
> 
> ...


I think we are pretty much in agreement, it probably wasn't fair for me to take your "rectal extractions" literally.


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## DigitalBishop (Nov 11, 2009)

Here's what I would do. I would follow the model the Joel Salatin has for his farm. I would keep bees on the property *and* the properties of my neighbors. No need to plant cover crops, it will take care of itself *and* have the diversity required for bee health. I would use my neighbors equipment for cutting hay and in return give him honey, meat, eggs, poultry, pork and help them when they need it. No expensive equipment needed. No tilling needed, the cows are better at it and it's cheaper to bring them to the forage. The bees would be there for diversity. Areas seem to come alive with them and I would think they would help the succession cycle. Doing all this Joel has reported that he has gotten roughly $4000+ per acre with a minimum amount of effort and this was back in 2010. I would surmise it's a bit more today due to prices.

Jamie


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## Smertrios (Apr 11, 2012)

Is the information about how he gets $4,000 in one of his books. The only information I can find about income on his polyface farm is thats its around $150,000 net but thats from 1995.


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## TWall (May 19, 2010)

The way to make this work is to find otherwise idle land that can be seeded with a crop like sweet clover that will produce a good honey crop and will reseed itself. You could possibly include some hubam, annual sweet clover, to give you a second nectar flow in late summer/early fall. In essence your cost would be the seed and seeding only. You would only have to plant once.

In areas that do not have prime farmland you could probably find some land that is idle and you could possibly gain access to plant the sweet clover. Alfalfa would be another option and would have some forage value for wildlife if the landowner is a hunter.

It is easy to make the numbers work when you don't have to pay for the land. I was talking to my uncle earlier this year and was surprised at what cash rent farmland is going for in central Illinois. The best soils are getting over $500/acre. My grandfather bought the "home" farm in the early '50's for $500/acre. It won't be too long and most of it will be paved over.

Tom


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## robherc (Mar 17, 2012)

Skinner Apiaries said:


> On that note, you might try clover as a green manure and maybe make some honey, but if you're renting the land you might have a serious problem making enough revenue, as clover obviously knocks a season out, so you lose clover cost plus production cost for a year, as opposed to those terrible 'petroleum fertilizers.


I don't rent land, and very quickly came to the personal realization that farming for honey as a "primary" crop was not at all likely to be profitable. That said, you can grow clover or other legumes (well, certain other legumes, since Black Locust is a legume & obviously wouldn't work) as a cover crop beneath your grain crops (corn, sorghum, millet; probably not so much for wheat or barley) and it would be fairly profitable for the grain plants (not necessarily for your wallet...I haven't "run the numbers" on that). The clover could benefit your grains by adding some level of nitrogen to the soil (although most of that benefit is for NEXT year's plants), and by shading the ground, thus reducing germination of crop damaging weeds, reducing water evaporation, and (I think) helping to reduce topsoil erosion.
Buckwheat has historically been used as a "smother crop" by some farmers in order to suppress corp-damaging weeds by out-competing them. You can run one cycle of buckwheat, making SURE to kill it BEFORE it drops seed, or harvesting it very thoroughly (probably not the most cost-effective method), to greatly reduce the weed infestation of a field for the next crop cycle. Benefits of the buckwheat are that it's a good honey-forage plant, the decaying tops can be tilled in to add nitrogen, and (I believe) phosphorus to the soil, and that there IS a commercial market for the seed, so it's a viable PRODUCTION crop, rather than just being a "Dead" rotation.

There are other crops that can be grown to support honey production, and I believe that's an attainable goal, so long as honey is considered as an additional yield; but I think it's going to be necessary to "pay the mortgage" with the crops, not the honey.


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## Roscommon Acres (Mar 21, 2011)

That's what I was going to say. Farm the land and let the bees take what they can. If you're set on clover, run animals on it. Or put in an orchard or something with higher value that the bees can increase the value of. Clover is a wonderful cover crop. You could put in an orchard and replace the grass with clover. The bees can work it and you wouldn't have to mow. For some extra income, you could even run sheep or geese through. I think I'd go for something with more value than hay.


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