# Spruce Woodenware



## ABruce (Dec 27, 2013)

Hi, 
In our neck of the woods, white wood, or #2 SPF, spruce pine and fir is common, I buy pine if I can I prefer to work with it , it smells nicer and machines a little better but the construction grade spruce works fine.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Does spruce split more easily?


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## tech.35058 (Jul 29, 2013)

Michael Palmer said:


> Does spruce split more easily?


When I worked as a carpenters helper, many years ago, I was thoroughly chastised for bringing "yellow pine" . Spruce is a softer wood, & less likely to split.


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## ABruce (Dec 27, 2013)

Spruce is probably the easiest wood to work with, hand nailing screws without pilot holes, or air nailers. Most house framing in our area is spruce.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

tech.35058 said:


> When I worked as a carpenters helper, many years ago, I was thoroughly chastised for bringing "yellow pine" . Spruce is a softer wood, & less likely to split.


Yellow pine is harder than a lot of technically hard wood. Compared to the mellow character of white pine it is hard to believe it is in the same family. Jack pine is quite hard and split prone too. 

Spruce often gets lumped together under the heading of Fir which could be balsam fir, spruce, hemlock etc. If it was dressed spruce from fairly large logs and not too many knots it would be ok for hive building but that is not what framing grade spruce usually is. That gets cut from smaller trees with lots of transition from flat to edge grain across the width of a board which guarantees it is not too likely to stay flat. 

I would pay the premium for white pine as it is so much nicer to work with.


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

> I would pay the premium for white pine as it is so much nicer to work with.


That depends on what you are comparing. Given a choice between white pine at $1.40/ft and cypress at $1.40/ft, I'll take the cypress hands down.


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## ralittlefield (Apr 25, 2011)

Michael Palmer said:


> Does spruce split more easily?


Spruce will be more brittle than (white) pine and therefore will split more easily, but I do not think it will be a problem. As was mentioned, it is part of the SPF group and is commonly used as framing lumber. Spruce Knots are incredibly hard, and spruce will typically have more knots than pine.


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

this is the spruce I know.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Fusion_power said:


> That depends on what you are comparing. Given a choice between white pine at $1.40/ft and cypress at $1.40/ft, I'll take the cypress hands down.


I can't argue on that, FP! I dont think I have ever seen a piece of it dead or alive up in the frozen north! Is it in the same family as unobtanium?


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

Cypress is relatively easy to obtain, just have to live in an area that has an abundance. Cypress is common across the southeastern U.S., up into Indiana, and across to the Mississippi river drainage. Most of the old growth cypress was cut for timber in the 1800's. The wood commonly available today is second growth cypress which is less rot resistant. It is still good to use for beehives. The wood can be a bit brittle and will chip if dull blades are used. Assembled and protected properly, it will last 40 to 50 years. I have several cypress hive bodies that are 20+ years old and still as good as the day I nailed and glued them together.


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## SteveStevenson (Feb 14, 2014)

Fusion, where do you get your cypress? I'm in Bham and I can't find it. Thanks


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## gnor (Jun 3, 2015)

catchingabuzz said:


> Thinking of buying some Spruce lumber from a local building supplier. I can get it at some pretty good prices, making it worth my time to make
> some hive bodies and other assorted bee things. Anybody use Spruce boxes, bottom boards, etc.? Difference between it and Pine functionality wise? They have Pine 1x10's
> but the 1x8 and 1x12 I also need are Spruce only. Thanks.


I'm surprised you can't get Pine in NC.
Where I am, Spruce is about 1/4 the price of pine. I use Spruce for "temporary" stuff like shims or feeders, but for the "permanent stuff, like boxes, bottom boards, frames, lids, and so on, I bite the bullet and use C+ pine. Not only does it have almost no knots, which can dry up and fall out after a while, but the pine machines so much nicer, and requires a lot less sanding. Pine always looks a lot nicer when it's done too. I would say there is no difference in durability.
I figure if I take proper care of the stuff, the cost/year difference will be negligible anyway.


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

You have to buy direct from a sawmill to get a reasonable price. http://www.simsforestproducts.com carries it for $1.40/ft rough cut green. You have to stack and dry and plane to suit. If you search a bit, you can find it a little cheaper.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Fusion_power said:


> You have to buy direct from a sawmill to get a reasonable price. http://www.simsforestproducts.com carries it for $1.40/ft rough cut green.


I just got in 2015 bd ft of 1x10 white pine, kiln dried and planed 4 sides. Mix of industrial and standard for $.60.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Michael Palmer said:


> I just got in 2015 bd ft of 1x10 white pine, kiln dried and planed 4 sides. Mix of industrial and standard for $.60.


Is it an actual 10", Michael? That price is great. Just paid $1.05/ft for 1x12 and $0.53/ft for 1x8 this weekend.


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## RichardsonTX (Jul 3, 2011)

Michael Palmer said:


> I just got in 2015 bd ft of 1x10 white pine, kiln dried and planed 4 sides. Mix of industrial and standard for $.60.


Would that be 2,418 linear feet at a subtotal of $1,209? If so, that was a very good price. Random lengths or specified? #2?


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

9 1/4 of course


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

RichardsonTX said:


> Would that be 2,418 linear feet at a subtotal of $1,209? If so, that was a very good price. Random lengths or specified? #2?


That's right. Random lengths, 8' - 16' 

I think the 1x12 will be .70, and has more industrial. I used 4 bundles of it last winter. Bundle = 2000' Nice to have the wood I need to add to my nuc operation and rebuild the production hives that are in need.


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## Adam Foster Collins (Nov 4, 2009)

Michael Palmer said:


> ... I used 4 bundles of it last winter. Bundle = 2000' Nice to have the wood I need to add to my nuc operation and rebuild the production hives that are in need.


Wow. 8000'. That's a busy winter in the shop! I thought I was busy just making 100 deeps...

Adam


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## RichardsonTX (Jul 3, 2011)

Mike, have you ever used rabbet joints when you build your deeps? That's all I've ever used and I'm wondering what kind of time frame I may get out of a deep that is being used as a brood box. I do paint them real well and plan to give them a new coat as needed. Do you have a typical length of time that you use for depreciating your hive bodies?


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

I have many 60+ year old boxes that are still functional but they are invariably made with finger joints. Rabbet joints just don't hold up nearly as well.


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## RichardsonTX (Jul 3, 2011)

jim lyon said:


> I have many 60+ year old boxes that are still functional but they are invariably made with finger joints. Rabbet joints just don't hold up nearly as well.


Thanks for the info Jim. I better start figuring out a way to create those box joints then. 60 years is impressive. I like old stuff too! That'd be cool to have my grandchild someday say this was a bee box that my great grandfather made when he started keeping bees. 

So what kind of time frame do you factor into your plan for the useful life of a deep, super, etcetera? I'm trying to put together a long term plan this year instead of just keeping bees but I'm not sure about some of the estimates I should make. And I want it to be as realistic as possible. One of the other issues I'm struggling with is factoring in damage to drawn comb. I didn't watch out for my drawn comb for a while and I've literally lost pretty much all of it. I've got to figure out a feasible way to store it where it's safe from the moths. When a person like myself who thinks he has a decent knowledge of bees starts to put together a long term plan, some of these factors I have to build into the plan really get tough to figure out.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Richard....
I just started making finger joints and just got my first dado blade for the table saw. I looked on you tube to find out how to build the jig to cut them on a table saw.
Good luck
gww


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

RichardsonTX said:


> Mike, have you ever used rabbet joints when you build your deeps? That's all I've ever used and I'm wondering what kind of time frame I may get out of a deep that is being used as a brood box. I do paint them real well and plan to give them a new coat as needed. Do you have a typical length of time that you use for depreciating your hive bodies?


All the boxes I build have rabbeted joints. Glued and stapled...and I don't have a problem with longevity. I have some ancient boxes...as does Jim, but those with rabbeted joints are still sound. It's the boxes with finger joints that rot at the bottom corners. Many of those boxes were used for pollination over the years and many staple holes...I and the people who used them used staples when the hives were used. 

I use the boxes until they are no longer serviceable, and then I use them for hive stands or feeder supers...as a shell to hide feeder cans. Once they're no longer good enough for some use the get broken up into leveling boards or thrown on the burn pile. As far as taxes...I've not depreciated by hives over the years.


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## gnor (Jun 3, 2015)

Michael Palmer said:


> 9 1/4 of course


There are a couple of mills in my area, and when I get to the volume stage, I'm going to see what a minimum run would be for custom sizes. Not that any wood goes to waste around here, but you pay a nasty premium for 1 x 12.


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## gnor (Jun 3, 2015)

RichardsonTX said:


> Mike, have you ever used rabbet joints when you build your deeps? That's all I've ever used and I'm wondering what kind of time frame I may get out of a deep that is being used as a brood box. I do paint them real well and plan to give them a new coat as needed. Do you have a typical length of time that you use for depreciating your hive bodies?


This is the joint I use. It's airtight, self, aligning, and easy to make. I paint with one coat of primer and 2 coats of exterior latex.









One problem I have with box joints is that the fingers shrink, and allow water to get into the joint. Anytime I have seen a box rotting, it's almost always at the corner joints. Of course, if we were all like Brother Adam, and cycles our boxes every 4 years, they should last forever.


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## Adam Foster Collins (Nov 4, 2009)

I wonder what some of the modern glues do for box longevity.


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## gnor (Jun 3, 2015)

They can't hurt. It wasn't too long ago that you had to use a 2 part glue to get good weather resistance, so they are more convenient for sure.


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