# feeding dry sugar in summer?



## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

They will probably carry it out the front door and you will have an ant farm under your hive. If they do take it, which is very doubtful, they will need plenty of water. That is probably why experienced beekeepers take the time and effort to make syrup.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

By your wording I'm gonna guess that translates as - you've never tried it, and don't know if it will work or not. Of course you might be correct - or not. Thanks for your input.


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## MikeJ (Jan 1, 2009)

I have no experience myself but I am told bees tend to throw the sugar out. I imagine if they are going to starve they might take it - but then they would need water to eat it... so if you have to give water and sugar why not mix them  They also say your supposed to wet the dry sugar - sound like about as much work as making syrup.

Last winter one of the hive we have was given dry sugar on top - but it is hard to say they actually ate it. So I am not really experienced with this - I feed syrup.

Mike


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## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

Actually It means I have tried it a few times. Sugar dusting is a temporary natural solution for Varroa mites. Sure they are different textures and grain size, but the result was on the ground both types. The ants are not so bad in the winter. ABC XYZ of Beekeeping and other comprehensive beekeeping books mention feeding dry sugar and similar results. I have tried plenty of things since 1969. It will not bother me one bit if you do too.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

So go for it Dave. You might learn something.

Didn't your bees make enuf honey already? Before the dearth period?

There is a dearth period in TN? If so, why wouldn't you feed syrup? If they need feeding at all.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I've fed it just because it was left over from winter and I never got it back into buckets for storage. It needs to be a bit damp to get them interested. You can feed it in the open if you like. You can't feed it on top without risking getting comb in the space. The problem with open feeding is the yellow jackets get as much good out of it as the bees...


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## jbford (Apr 17, 2009)

I am not a "natural" beekeeper but do believe in leaving plenty of real honey on for the lean times.

It doesn't seem right to make such beautiful creatures live on something from a tanker truck or paper bag.


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## Mike Snodgrass (Mar 11, 2010)

I believe its called the Mountain Camp method...but never heard of it done in the summer?


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## peacekeeperapiaries (Jun 23, 2009)

A dearth does not mean the bees are starving, it means nothing is blooming. Thats why bees store honey and pollen for the dearths and the winter. If your hives have stores they will be fine until the fall flow. If they are short on supplies then feed them syrup....most of the dry sugar will go out the door and out the SBB if you use them...and yes I am speaking from experience we tried this on some summer splits last year that were very low on stores going into our dearth, they carried it right out the door. Gave them syrup and they were happy and well fed bees.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

sqkcrk said:


> So go for it Dave. You might learn something.
> 
> Didn't your bees make enuf honey already? Before the dearth period?
> 
> There is a dearth period in TN? If so, why wouldn't you feed syrup? If they need feeding at all.


This is my second year and I've split from 2 overwintered hives (one and a nuc actually) to 6 hives this year. So, they've actually made a fair amt of honey, but they've made even more bees. If we continue to get regular rain they might not need supplemental feeding, but usually it gets bone dry in July and August, and according to area bee keepers they can starve to death. Last year my original hive (from a package) was out of food by the end of July - I didn't take a drop. 

I would rather let them feed their selves, but I don't want them to starve. I'll do whatever has to be done, but syrup has a lot of drawbacks - 1) bees can drown 2) They can over fill the hive with it 3) It can ferment or other wise go bad 4) It can set off robbing 5) Other bad things I don't even know yet.

I gave them dry sugar over last winter - just in case - and it worked out pretty good.


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## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

1) bees can drown 
maybe in a poorly designed or maintained Miller or frame feeder, but there are many styles of feeders, never drowned a bee in a top down mason jar
2) They can over fill the hive with it 
only if you feed more than they need
3) It can ferment or other wise go bad 
put a little Honey Bee Healthy or lemon juice in the syrup or use containers they can consume in a week not 5 gallons at a time
4) It can set off robbing 
do not use an entrance feeder or open feeding
5) Other bad things I don't even know yet.
learn from others experiences on these forums


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Michael Bush said:


> I've fed it just because it was left over from winter and I never got it back into buckets for storage. It needs to be a bit damp to get them interested. You can feed it in the open if you like. You can't feed it on top without risking getting comb in the space. The problem with open feeding is the yellow jackets get as much good out of it as the bees...


Last winter I used a hive body as a shim to feed sugar in, and I filled it with top bars with starter strips just in case they wanted to start something. They didn't build comb on them then, but I've also used them to fill spaces when I was short of frames, and I've ended up with a bit of cut comb honey from them - and a bar or two of brood as well. It's actually kind of cool. 

I've got some (20 lbs or so) big chunks of rock candy left over from feeding dry sugar last winter that got me thinking about it.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

_1) bees can drown 
maybe in a poorly designed or maintained Miller or frame feeder, but there are many styles of feeders, never drowned a bee in a top down mason jar_

True, they won't drown in those, but due to changing temps, barometric pressure, or alignment of the planets the syrup can all leak out in a couple of hours, run out the hive and set off robbing. Had it happen.

_2) They can over fill the hive with it 
only if you feed more than they need
3) It can ferment or other wise go bad 
put a little Honey Bee Healthy or lemon juice in the syrup or use containers they can consume in a week not 5 gallons at a time
4) It can set off robbing 
do not use an entrance feeder or open feeding_

Or spill any.

_5) Other bad things I don't even know yet.
learn from others experiences on these forums_

That's what I'm here for. 

Feeding syrup works, and I know it's tried and true - I'm not knocking it. I just like to try different things if they seem like they might have their own advantages.


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## BearHill (Dec 31, 2009)

I think feeding them dry sugar in the summer dearth is at least worth a try. Like you, I fed sugar in the winter and had good luck with it. To reduce the likelihood of the bees carrying the sugar out of the hive, I just spritzed some water over the top of the sugar to form a crust. A couple of the hives tossed out small amounts of sugar, but it wasn't enough to cause problems, and most didn't toss out any at all. (Also, I wonder if the summer humidity would work in your favor and stick the grains together a little bit.)

And now you've got me thinking about trying it in our dearth...


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

peacekeeperapiaries said:


> A dearth does not mean the bees are starving, it means nothing is blooming. Thats why bees store honey and pollen for the dearths and the winter. If your hives have stores they will be fine until the fall flow. If they are short on supplies then feed them syrup....most of the dry sugar will go out the door and out the SBB if you use them...and yes I am speaking from experience we tried this on some summer splits last year that were very low on stores going into our dearth, they carried it right out the door. Gave them syrup and they were happy and well fed bees.


Thanks. Personal experience. Very helpful. I have some "rock candy" left from feeding dry sugar last winter I'll probably experiment with. If I see they are chipping it up and carrying it out, I'll make syrup out of it. 

I'm also talking about splits that are not very fat on stores.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

BearHill said:


> Also, I wonder if the summer humidity would work in your favor and stick the grains together a little bit.
> 
> And now you've got me thinking about trying it in our dearth...


No kidding - I wouldn't be surprised if it gets enough water out of the air to almost turn into syrup on its own.


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## frazzledfozzle (May 26, 2010)

We use raw sugar for feeding our queen raising nucs in the spring, summer and autumn it works really well they dont store it they tend to use just what they need to keep them ticking over it also stops the problem of raiding when using syrup.
We never use white sugar always raw we either feed it on top of the inner cover with a small hole in the cover for bees to access it or in the frame feeder inside the nuc. 
Have also fed raw to hives and also no problems.

frazz


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Why raw sugar instead of white?


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## frazzledfozzle (May 26, 2010)

we use white for making syrup and raw for dry feeding.
All the beekeepers I know here in NZ believe that dry white sugar causes dysentry in the bees.

frazz


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## MikeJ (Jan 1, 2009)

Raw - as in un-refined sugar cane (like you get at the health food stores)?
I though people said it would kill them? :scratch:

Mike


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## frazzledfozzle (May 26, 2010)

yes raw as in unrefined white sugar,
Thats something I've noticed on this forum with some of the photos of the mountaincamp method it looks like people use white sugar whereas over here it's a definate no-no. 
I have no idea why it's different.


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## Oldbee (Sep 25, 2006)

_"Colonies can also be fed pure granulated sugar during winter—they process the crystals just fine, if the bees in the cluster can reach them! Do not feed bees any impure or unrefined sugars—they can cause poisoning or *dysentery.* Feed nothing but syrup made from refined (white) cane or beet granulated sugar,.." > _http://www.scientificbeekeeping.com//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=52

_"Use white, granulated cane or beet sugar only. Never use brown or *raw sugar*, molasses or sorghum, because these contain impurities and can cause *dysentery* in bees." >>_ D. Sammataro_;_ Beekeepers Handbook_._

Maybe it's because the weather in New Zealand enables the bees to make cleansing flights during most times of the year. From all of my reading I have never seen that raw or unrefined sugar should be fed to bees. Maybe it is different in granulated form.
If you say so it must be true. Ob.

_"I have no idea why it's different."_

Isn't everything a little,..upside down in the Southern Hemisphere?


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## MikeJ (Jan 1, 2009)

I had just accepted that about pure vs. raw but really it does make sense that the raw should be fine - as long as the bees are able to fly. Nectar is not pure.

Only real problem is as far as I know raw sugar is more expensive here (probably because it is considered "healthy").

Mike


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## frazzledfozzle (May 26, 2010)

After reading this thread and all the comments about using white sugar for dry feeding as opposed to raw sugar as we do here I thought I would do some googling to prove my point.
Hmmm nothing I looked at said feeding raw was a good idea :scratch:
I thought what the hang this can't be right 
So I rang a beekeeper who knows just about everything there is to know about bees and he told me that feeding raw sugar is not good for the bees because there are yeasts in raw sugar that haven't been processed out and sometimes it gives the bees dysentry and if you get dysentry and a spell of wet weather they poo inside the hive if some of the bees happen to have nosema it spreads through the hive real fast.
So blow me down I was totally wrong and have been doing the wrong thing for years as have other beekeepers that I know!
So here's me thinking I'm telling you whats right and true and it turns out to be a load of bollocks:doh:
So on that note anyone want to buy a tonne of raw sugar 

frazz


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## MikeJ (Jan 1, 2009)

lol
But still... Maybe I took more from the comments I have seen against feeding raw sugar than was meant - but it seemed to me that it was being said it would kill the bees. Which if this is the case is also wrong.

If it has been working for you without a problem why change it? Nectar/pollen also has yeasts. Maybe another problem is putting the bees in to sterile an environment??

Thank you for your information on raw sugars. I find it very interesting.

Mike


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Frazz - thanks for doing the work to find out and let us know. Too many people would just insist that their way is THE way.


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## honeybeekeeper (Mar 3, 2010)

Absolutely agree!!...


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## Jeffrey Todd (Mar 17, 2006)

I think it is great that you are brainstorming and trying things a way that does not seem to have had much testing. I would be very interested to hear your results. My thought is that they may nibble at it a little (assuming they have honey left over from spring) but otherwise won't do much with it. Let us know.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

That's all that's left of a 5 pound chunk of sugar after only 6 days

Just thought that I would post an update - I started feeding dry sugar to a couple of light hives about a week ago, and they are covering it up. One of them was given a 5 pound chunk of sugar that had been wet and turned into a rock, the other I gave a gladware container full of granulated sugar that I poured some water on top of to moisten it. Both are sitting on top of the frames, and both are covered with feasting bees, and both have consumed about 1/2 of what I gave them. They aren't carrying it out and it isn't falling into the SBB oil traps that I use.

I'm just using an empty super as a shim with top bars on it so that if they decide to build some comb it won't just be on the cover.

This really does seem to work just fine. No problem with robbing or backfilling of the brood nest so far.

As a matter of fact, I gave one of these hives a quart jar of syrup right above the sugar, thinking that if it leaks it will just fall on the sugar instead of making a mess. They have barely touched the syrup while they've eaten 2-3 pounds of sugar.


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## BearHill (Dec 31, 2009)

Thanks for posting the update! I need to feed some nucs, and I wasn't looking forward to messing with syrup. Good to know that this might work.


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## Duboisi (Oct 7, 2009)

A little bumping here...

Did the dry-sugar feeding result in more honey from the hive that got the feed?

If so- how big a difference would you estimate that it did?


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

The dry sugar feeding happened after our honey production season was over, but it helped my hives get through the summer dearth in better shape - with practically no robbing. They continued to produce brood and small amts of wax all summer. Since the first of September my hive populations have increased dramatically - so maybe feeding dry sugar in July and August will result in getting a better honey crop next year.

They do eat the dry sugar.

I moistened it to make it lump up and they did not carry it out of the hives. I tried a couple of ways to feed it but putting it above the inner cover in a gladware bowl was easiest.

They didn't use a very large amount of sugar, but there were always bees working on it - so I guess if they are hungry they can and will use it, but would rather have nectar. Which is exactly what I was hoping.


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## ParkerBee (Feb 24, 2015)

Just resurrecting an old thread.

Are you still feeding your bees dry sugar, or did you find some disadvantage in doing so?

Thanks.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Welcome to Bee Source, ParkerBee!

I was thinking about feeding them Lauri's sugar bricks 
on our yearly summer dearth too. This way I don't have
to plant for them only the summer veggies will do.


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## ParkerBee (Feb 24, 2015)

Thanks Beepro!

I'm considering using dry sugar in a empty frame feeder during the spring here. I wan't to insure they have adequate resources if the weather reduces foraging, but I don't want them plugging the brood nest with syrup.

During the dearth this summer, I believe it would also help to reduce robbing in my nucs. It's worth trying in my opinion.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

ParkerBee said:


> Just resurrecting an old thread.
> 
> Are you still feeding your bees dry sugar, or did you find some disadvantage in doing so?
> 
> Thanks.


I don't. What I do is keep robbing screens on pretty much all hives, and feed syrup in frame feeders if they need feeding. Dry sugar will keep them from starving, but syrup will help them raise brood and build up stores. Robber screens manage the problem of robbing.


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## ParkerBee (Feb 24, 2015)

Good to know. Thanks for the reply.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

I use a wooden rim around the hive so that the
sugar bricks can be lay on the top bars. During
the summer dearth you can grow some buckwheat, Nygers and
purple tansy for them too. My plan is to only grow the nectar
producing plants while feeding them the patty subs. Did that
last summer with good result. Here is a link to refine the sugar
bricks making process http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...auri's+brick


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