# Plastic or Wood?



## Tom Fran (May 18, 2010)

Which material do you prefer for your frames and why?

Thanks in advance for your comments.


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## honeyman46408 (Feb 14, 2003)

I use wood frames with plastic foundation.

Wood frames because the bees like it better than plastic but they like wax foundation better than plastic but then I am LAZY and the bees will use it if you dont give them a choice.


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## louborges (May 16, 2009)

Plastic frames really appealed to me. No assembly, ready to use. lower cost. I also read others opinions on this forum and like everything else you get a wide range of opinions, some love them and some hate them. I recently started using them on my supers. The bees had no problems drawing comb. The frames are lite weight which makes it easier to handle, but my frame grabber doesn't work on them. Maybe a different grabber would. Also what most people complained about was the burr comb they build between boxes. My bees fused the top super frames to the bottom frames. So now I can't lift the top box without taking all the bottom frame with it. They don't seem to do this with wood. I now wish I had stayed with wood frames.


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## honeydreams (Aug 10, 2009)

I like wood frames with Plasitc foundation snaps in easy. Also I use black for my deeps can see eggs better and I use yellow to white for my suppers. bees draw it out just fine. and when I need to replace the comb every three years I just scrape it off the foundation and the girls draw it out. when I spin out my frames no blow outs. The bees don't chew holes in the foundation.
thats why I like it.
Also I tried the all plstic frames and they were very unstable they wiggled and bent easy. wood is more solid.


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## ginn68 (Apr 14, 2010)

Honeydreams:

Do you only run plastic in your med and brood chambers? Or do you also run it in your Shallows? If so, where do you get the plastic for your shallows. And lastly, what type of frames do you like to use with the plastic foundation.

Thanks!


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

I try to be an equal opportunity frame user; I very much enjoy foundationless wooden frames best; my second choice are wood frames with the plastic foundation cut out of PF120 frames and installed in them; my third choice are PF120 one piece plastic frame/foundation with small cell size. I think letting the bees build their own comb is the best for the bees and easiest for the beekeeper. I like the PF120's when the honey flow is on and I need to add honey supers - it's also the best time to have the bees draw them out.


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## Tom Fran (May 18, 2010)

Joseph Clemens said:


> I very much enjoy foundationless wooden frames best;


Joseph, I am going to go ahead and reveal my beekeeping ignorance here and ask what a "foundationless frame" is. Does that mean that you just install an empty wooden frame just like the ones that you would ordinarily install a foundation in?


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## crazyseany (May 22, 2010)

I believe the answer to that is yes... 

I think it's either empty wood frames but I've also heard the word starter strips used when ppl are talking foundationless.....

I have the all 1 piece pierco frames... For my supers... For next spring when I get bees... Lol

I got them new for $1.50 each


sean


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## honeydreams (Aug 10, 2009)

ginn68 said:


> Honeydreams:
> 
> Do you only run plastic in your med and brood chambers? Or do you also run it in your Shallows? If so, where do you get the plastic for your shallows. And lastly, what type of frames do you like to use with the plastic foundation.
> 
> Thanks!


I use don't run shallows, so I can't help you there. I use groved top groved bottom frames when I have my frames made I just snap in the plastic. easy peasey.


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## basser59 (Nov 2, 2009)

ginn68 try here
http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/Plastic-Foundation/products/30/


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

Yes, foundationless wooden frames can be just empty frames, though I prefer to install horizontal support wires and a wooden comb guide where the foundation would ordinarily be mounted. Walter T. Kelley sells just such a frame, though I haven't tried theirs yet.


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## Jeff G (May 12, 2010)

Joesph---I tried foundationless frames with a starter strip and they are drawing on it just fine. I put a 1/2 inch square wood dowl on angle half way up the frame in stead of the wire, and they draw from the starter strip down and the dowl down but do not attach the bottoms. I have looked at the Kelly frames; so if I would use wires on a deep do they just draw over and through the wire and do you use 2 or 4 wires?


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## Oberlinmom (Mar 11, 2009)

I have wood frames with plastic inserts. I like black but my dealer only has yellow for the mediums, I'm switching to all mediums for ease of use. I bought a hive from a fellow this year that ran all plastic. I have been using the frames mixed in with my wood when I ran out of frames. I don't like the 100% plastic for what I imagine could be a problem but have no facts to base it on. 
We have SHBs here. The all plastic frames have all sorts of nooks and crannies around the frame it's self. I believe these nooks are perfect little hidey holes for SHB they aren't big enough for the bees to get into them. I was told by someone "OH the bees will fill them in no worries." I don't like the idea that until the bees fill in the frame it's a place the SHBs can hide. 
I'd like to hear what anyone else has to say on this.


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

honeydreams said:


> I like wood frames with Plasitc foundation snaps in easy. Also I use black for my deeps can see eggs better and I use yellow to white for my suppers. bees draw it out just fine. and when I need to replace the comb every three years I just scrape it off the foundation and the girls draw it out. when I spin out my frames no blow outs. The bees don't chew holes in the foundation.
> thats why I like it.
> Also I tried the all plstic frames and they were very unstable they wiggled and bent easy. wood is more solid.


I second this. I use the plastic inside the wood so I get the best of both worlds. I dont like the feel of the plastic frames. I do use plastic in my supers because it was easy and they are easy to scrape out.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

I use two horizontal wires in the medium frames and four in the deep frames. The bees never seem to have any difficulties when incorporating the wire into their combs. Often they will even begin combs right on one or more wires.


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## Tom Fran (May 18, 2010)

Please take the poll.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

But the poll has no option for those of us who like to use both plastic and wood.


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## NasalSponge (Jul 22, 2008)

Right...I use mainly wood w/wax but I do own 20 frames of HSC. I am interested in going foundationless and may begin to do so next year.


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

According to the poll I am the only one thus far who chosen plastic. For commercial work there is really no contest. I can buy directly from Nick at Pierco so no mark ups. There is no labor involved and trust me putting together word frames then adding the plastic foundation is labor intensive. I can't imagine the time it takes to thread wire for foundationless. And last, the bees accept it fine, it lasts longer then wood too. We have no problem with bending or warping. I think this was a problem with some of the earlier plastic imports but haven't experienced it with Pierco. We also don't have SHB and if you lived in an area that does then I would think about wood because there are spaces those little buggers can hide.


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## Tom Fran (May 18, 2010)

Joseph Clemens said:


> But the poll has no option for those of us who like to use both plastic and wood.


Sorry, Joseph, I didn't think of that, and there is no way I can edit the poll to correct it.


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