# Penn Colony Update: Summer



## Allen (Oct 5, 2011)

Did a road trip to see Ike at Forest Hills Woodworking last week.
He is now carrying foundationless frames so that will save on shipping costs.

Its been dry around these parts with a t-storm or two giving us a tinkle once in awhile.
All five colonies are coming and going with a purpose and there must still be some kind of nectar flow going on.
Currently they are bringing in a pale yellow pollen and am seeing lots of clover.

I've got three supers on the 8 & 10 frame Deep hives and 5 supers on the other 8 frame Medium.
In another week I may be adding another super to the 8 frame medium.
That hive has been the most productive so far.
They are all still building comb but it has slowed down a bit.

I noticed a light colored honey in Spring and now it's changing to a darker color.
Our garden has the most flowers we've ever seen on the cucumbers and tomatoes.

Photo taken with iPad and edited in the Camera+ app.


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## nortpete (Aug 10, 2010)

My hives have still been bringing in nectar, but it is slow. We have not had much rain either. They are forcasting rain for us Saturday thru Thursday for us. We will see if we actually get any. Mostly what I see them working right now is the clover. The thistle is just starting to bloom and I am seeing them on that now also.


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## GLOCK (Dec 29, 2009)

Necter is slowing way down here but what a great years it's been i went from 3 hives to 17 in 2 month and i wanted more bee's and i got them . I'm seeing goldenrod and the thistle starting to bloom and the white clover is dieing out . I have not took any honey yet but i'm trying to build them up for winter and the three hives from last year all swarmed i think i got them all 6{swarms} in total and one i took may 1 is crazy strong and all my queens seem to be doing well. Third year and i'm learning alot making queens and finding them when you look for them is realy a cool feeling. It adds up cash wise real fast but at this stage of the game i have what i need and if i can get 10 or more through winter i should do well next year.
I sure love my bee's


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## Allen (Oct 5, 2011)

Did a hive inspection this AM.
Bee populations have increased and all are bringing in nectar and capping honey.
Some frames still need to be drawn out and there is some comb made back in June that is waiting to be filled.
The workers are starting to push the queens down into the lower supers.

More deep supers may be added in a week or so if production continues.
Might be getting a mated queen from Dennis Keeney soon to start a Nuc. 
Keeping fingers crossed...


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## GLOCK (Dec 29, 2009)

Your going to start a nuc now? I figured it was alittle late . Good luck


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## Allen (Oct 5, 2011)

Thanks.
I thought it was too late also but then got to thinking about the Fall flow.
It's started early around here and we've been getting plenty of rain so the flowers are blooming.
We also have the resources now with four 10 frame hives to make one Nuc and maybe two.

The Nuc will have 4 frames in the bottom box which will already have most of the work done to them.
It shouldn't be a problem for the bees to draw out a second box on top with 4 more frames.
The Nuc will eventually get wintered on top of one of our 10 frame full-sized hives.

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?273196-I-am-excited-about-Nucs!

Worst that can happen is we lose them.
If they survive then we'll know what to do next Winter when we over-winter double Nucs on our other 10 frame hives.
Rather make a mistake with one than six or eight.


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## GLOCK (Dec 29, 2009)

Sounds like a good plan i to have a couple splits i made to see if i could make my own queens in JULY are building and they only have about 6 frames as of last week but where building fast plus i am feeding them even with a flow on they still are taking syrup . I have 17 hives and only had 3 last year but had a great year for building up numbers that for sure. Good luck what a great hobby.


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## delber (Dec 26, 2010)

Allen said:


> Did a road trip to see Ike at Forest Hills Woodworking last week.
> He is now carrying foundationless frames so that will save on shipping costs.


Do you happen to be able to post a pic of what the foundationless looks like?


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## Allen (Oct 5, 2011)

Here ya go. Wanted to show several angles of the top bar.



The bottom is solid.
I don't use anything on the frames except double horizontal wires in the deeps.
And new frames get placed between drawn or foundation based frames which help keep new comb straight.


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## delber (Dec 26, 2010)

Thanks for that Allen. It seems that they're very similar to Kelly's. I was hoping that there wouldn't be a "flat" on the bottom of the top bar but rather a point.


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## Allen (Oct 5, 2011)

Oversight on my part.
They are Kelley frames and the bees don't seem to mind the flat area on the bottom of the triangle.


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## delber (Dec 26, 2010)

Allen, I understand that the bees don't "mind" however what I'm finding out (using them exclusively) especiall on a flow it's hard to keep them going straight. I know that you can put a empty frame between a brood frame (although mine aren't solid brood. Some honey on top that's capped or not) and inbetween 2 capped honey frames and they'll draw it perfectly. I had one hive (a full strength hive) draw 2 frames so that one was just touching the frame next to it and the following comb was 1/2 on one frame and 1/2 on the next frame. My was that fun to get worked out!!! I'm going to be trying a bit of a different strategy next time. I'm taking a strip of comb perhaps 1/2" wide and kind of smashing it on the frame so that there's about 1/2" lip down of solid wax. I had some frames that for one reason or another were bad and cut the comb out of them and left about that 1/2" of comb at the top. Even though they didn't draw it straight the first time I just smashed it so that there's a 1/32" or so thick piece of wax coming straight down to give them the best comb guide I can think of. I'm not sure how it'll work, but I'm going to try it. If anyone has other thoughts I'd love to know how you keep them straight.


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## PAHunter62 (Jan 26, 2011)

I stopped in to see Ike this past weekend. I bought 10 of the foundationless frames. I asked him if he plans to make his own anytime soon. He said he plans to next spring. I've been making my own the past couple years using the Mann Lake grooved top/bottom boards with wood strips cut on the table saw to friction fit in the groove. I keep them in place with a drop or two of glue. They have been accepted great, no waxing, just straight into the hive (only one or two so far with anything but perfect comb). I told Ike I would compare my experiences with the Kelley frames to what I have been using and report back in a month or so. *I think now is the time to influence Ike to make a product that will fit our needs.* I would sure rather buy local from Forest Hill than to buy from a catalog and still have to deal with starter strips.


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## delber (Dec 26, 2010)

I couldn't agree more with buying local. I'd love it if he would start making them, but the problem with Kelly's frames from what I see and have experienced this year is the starter strip isn't enough it seems. If I catch a swarm then it's usuall fine, but if I am adding a box to a hive then it is often not enough. I have had several hives draw comb and join 2 frames together. I have to cut a lot of wax / nectar away to "help" the bees draw it straight. I'm honestly considering going with a wedged top and just nailing the wedge in and seeing how that works. I haven't bought any yet, but I also like your idea of the groved top bar w/ a ripped "wedge". That may work great also. If we can help Ike to go this rout I'm definitely up for it. Regarding Kelly's frames. . . If you put them inbetween 2 capped frames then you're fine. If you bring a couple frames up into a new box that has been where I have gotten into trouble.


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## PAHunter62 (Jan 26, 2011)

I feel the Kelley frames will be problematic too just from looking at them. I only bought them after Ike said he was planning on making foundationless frames in the spring. I told him I would compare to mine and give him the feedback. Heck - I have 100 un-assembled groove top frames waiting to put together. If, in the end, I can buy something local, a small investment and collaboration is well worth it.

I have 4 hives with pretty much all foundationless comb - they only messed up about 4 frames total out of about 150.


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## Allen (Oct 5, 2011)

I first started the Kelley frames in between foundation and everything seemed to go ok.
The problems I noticed were with Deep frames when adding the next super.
Some frames from below get moved up as bait comb and I'd insert empty Kelley frames in both Supers.
Sometimes the bees would continue to draw out the frames on either side before going to work on the new frames.
This was always on honey frames.
It has not happened with the Medium frame hive.

If there is a better set up then count me in to let Ike know we're interested in what he can make.

What improvements do you suggest for Ike's foundationless frames?

Btw, I added two horizontal strands of stainless wire in each Deep frame for support and had no issues with the heat.
The Mediums didn't get wired and they stayed together also.


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## PAHunter62 (Jan 26, 2011)

I'm sure the kelley frames work reasonibly well, especially when placed between brood comb, or capped honey frames. The starter strip on them is kinda rounded off, I think you may see some comb once in a while being drawn on an slight angle, and possibly having different sections overlapping (especially when they start from each side and meet in the middle). I have seen that before. The ones I have made are pretty simple really, I just don't like cutting the strips on the table saw - every once in a while one will splinter and fly - definitely a job for eye protection!

Below are a couple pics of mine. I've been using the Mann Lake grooved top frames. I just set the table saw to cut strips that slide into the groove and glue them with a couple drops to keep them in place. Once they build them out, they are in to stay. Mine probably stick down from the top bar about 1/4 inch. I do not use wax at all - the bees have started building on the strip every time.

I caught a swarm early in the year. They were in an 8 frame medium box with one brood comb and 7 foundationless frames like these. When I retrieved them of the 7 frames, they had a couple fully drawn, a cople half drawn, a couple a third drawn, and one just started. All frame perfect.


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## delber (Dec 26, 2010)

Thanks for the pictures!!! I have said before as many others have also. . . a picture is worth a thousand words. I also appreciate your explenation on how they draw it out. 

On another note. . . Does anyone know how late is too late to rear queens in our area? I see some of you are in Chester Co. but what experience do you all have in this? I have 2 hives w/ queens in process and looking at the calendar inspection on the latest seems to be early / mid next month. Is this too late? I had a batch of queens that 1/2 of them didn't pan out so well. I have some good queens but not "enough" to overwinter what I wanted this year. Any thoughts?


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## Allen (Oct 5, 2011)

The Nuc appears to be bringing in more pollen than the full sized hives.
They have been moving with a purpose the last few days.
Am seeing them bring in a yellow and bright orange pollen.
About a quarter mile way I found some cosmos sulphureus with honey bees on them.

We had our largest artisan show of the year www.facebook.com/ArtisansattheFirehouse just down the street at a historical building with cleomas out front.
We noticed honeybees working over those flowers while attendees were walking by with no clue.
Got to use it as an educational opportunity while talking up our future sales of raw honey.


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## PAHunter62 (Jan 26, 2011)

What is going on in the PA region? I have seen some nectar being stored, but not in any kind of volume. What is everyone else seeing?


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## Allen (Oct 5, 2011)

Its been an educational summer so far.
I reduced two hives by one super each because they weren't doing anything with the empty space.

All 5 hives have honey in various stages of being capped but they still feel light when I tip them up.
Goldenrod and a late honeysuckle are starting to bloom all around here and lots of pollen has been coming in for the last week or so.
They started building a small amount of comb again.
Am holding off on feeding for another couple weeks to see what they do with the Fall flow.

We placed our Nuc into a divided 10 frame deep yesterday.
I started feeding them and hope to expand them into a second deep.


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## GLOCK (Dec 29, 2009)

The goldenrod is now starting to bloom prettygood and all my hives are gaining Weight i have hives at all diffrent stages but all are looking good.
I have 2 DBL.NUCS with swarms i took aug.26 and 27 guess i'll see if i can get them trought winter i'm feeding them and they are taking in 1 gal. aday so i'll check them in about 3 weeks plus i now have 2 queen in case i lose one before winter. I still have drone pluss some of my hives are still making drone cell's i've had a great year of building my stock pluss buidling out frames with comb and still got some honey. What a great hobby


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## delber (Dec 26, 2010)

I just checked 3 nucs today. All three seem to be brooding up well, but are light on stores. I started feeding one a few weeks ago and am waiting for the other two because they had more stores a while ago. All 3 had drones, and my other hives (in another yard) I also saw drones. I also expanded fairly well this year. I only lost one hive to a swarm and failed replacement queen, I gave them a frame and the started a q-cell but it was too late. I think they absconded with the virgin queen as SHB and wax moths had started up. I'll be hitting the feed fairly hard this time next month. Putting a super on and using small quart feeders right on top of the brood nest has enabled me to feed slightly later in the year so I'm also interested what fall flow we have this year.


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## Allen (Oct 5, 2011)

Correction: 
It's not honeysuckle but rather a sweet clematis which is an invasive plant.
It's growing unchecked nearby and that can only mean more blooms for next year.


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## papar (Apr 10, 2007)

My hives in PA are not looking that great this year. No locust or Basswood this spring, hot and dry weather during clover. It seems that much of the rain has been spotty and some of my areas have not seen much rain at all during August. Goldenrod is in bloom but not producing heavy nectar yet. Honestly, even if it starts raining I don't think the GR will do much this year.

Allen- don't you guys need bear fencing?


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## Allen (Oct 5, 2011)

Papar, every few years a black bear comes wandering through here.
If we were further north in Berks Co near the Appalachian Trail we probably would.


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## PAHunter62 (Jan 26, 2011)

Checked my two home hives this morning. They are not adding much nectar so far. Enough I have not had to feed though. GR is blooming all around now, today is the last real rainy day in the 10 day forecast ahead. Hopefully, the rains of late will help produce some nectar. I really hope I don't need to feed going into winter. I'm running all 8 frame medium boxes, look to get all my hives into 4 boxes, the top being packed with honey, the 3rd as much as they can get. I will feed candy feb-mar if needed. I also have a NUC just started mid Aug. I'll be looking for a laying queen in a week or so. If it needs help, I plan to pull resources from my other 4 hives. I want to go into winter with it in two 6 frame boxes, the top box being full. I will post updates here.

I will be checking my other two hives approx. 5 miles away tomorrow, maybe they are doing a little better!


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## Allen (Oct 5, 2011)

First the good news:
PAHunter, I couldn't wait and decided to do a trial run with feeding.
All the hives are a bit light and they must have eaten some of their honey during the dearth.
I've got three 10-frame black plastic hive top feeders from Forest Hills as a test run and the other three have double mason jar feeders on top inside an empty super.

The hive which always seems to be lagging behind the others isn't taking the syrup as much as the others. That must be a good thing.

The Nuc is drawing new comb since being given syrup and looked like they were getting crowded.
Pretty neat to see comb on a sheet of foundation that was empty as of last Saturday.
Before the cells are finished they are already storing syrup in them.
I also purchased 4 sheets of small cell foundation and frames to go with it while I was at Ike's.
Those new frames got added to the Nuc along with a second divided 10 frame deep.

One of our hives has numerous bees coming back covered in white pollen.
Wish they'd share the location with the other colonies.

And now the bad.

I've killed several wax moths outside of one of our hives over a two day period.
Today I found one inside a super that contains the mason feeding jars for our Nuc.
I killed that one also.
Not sure what this means.


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## Allen (Oct 5, 2011)

Did an inspection this afternoon.
The colony that's not taking alot of syrup appears to be on a good nectar source and has been filling out their comb.
But, they still had some empty frames in the top super (3rd deep).
While lifting a frame out of the 3rd deep, I found a hive beetle running around.
Was so surprised that as I fumbled to kill it, it dropped to the ground.

I reduced another hive from 4 deep supers down to 3.
Some of the drawn frames (from the 4th deep) went into its 3rd deep and also gave some of its drawn comb and stored honey to that first colony.

The Nuc is drawing out the first super very well but hasn't started on the 2nd super yet.
It has a good bee population and I've decided to keep a small sized entrance reducer on it. 
Golden-yellow and orange colored pollen is being brought back by all 6 colonies.

Saw eggs and lots of larvae.

Three of the colonies are being fed via double mason jar holders on top of the inner cover and enclosed by a deep super.
I've killed about a dozen wax moths inside the super next to the mason jars or on the outside of the hive.
This just started recently.


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## Allen (Oct 5, 2011)

On 9/12 I decided to move some frames around in the Nuc.
One frame of some brood and mostly honey got moved up to the second super and an empty frame of small cell foundation got moved to the bottom super in its place.

Today, while replenishing their syrup, I found brand new comb being drawn on two of the previously empty frames.
The frame that got placed in the bottom has almost one side completely drawn out with eggs, pollen and syrup in it. The other side isn't quite as far along yet.
Pretty neat to see how fast they can draw comb when they want to.

Decided to check the top super of the weak colony.
They are still drawing more comb but aren't filling it yet.


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## Allen (Oct 5, 2011)

Checked on things today.
My smithy is about 50' from the hives and you can really catch an odor when the wind is right.
They smelled great earlier in summer but not now... 
Am feeding them 2-1.

The Nuc is doing great! Someone needs to tell that queen to stop laying or I'll have to put a third box on top. 

Saw beautiful looking comb in the top supers of the other hives with some being partially filled or empty.
Moved those frames into the center of each box so hopefully they will get filled.
One colony is still refusing to take syrup. Hope they can build up their own stores.


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## delber (Dec 26, 2010)

Welcome to fall everyone!!! I checked on things this past weekend. . . I have one nuc (of 4 total) that is busting out of the seams. It's looking great. 2 nucs aren't looking so hot. I checked one about a week ago and there was a wolf spider inside. MAN I'M TOTALLY TIRED OF THESE SPIDERS!!! So I think that may have gotten a few bees for sure. It seems that there may have been 2 in this box, but I only found and saw one. Perhaps they killed it I'm not sure. I reduced the entrance and put a frame of capped / uncapped nectar in to give them a boost. Hopefully that one will start taking off. The other one is Ok. Just Ok. There is some brood in the hive and a fair ammt. of bees, but not as much as I'd like to see at this point. We'll see how things go with that one. I'm feeding 3 of the nucs and letting that one that's busting alone. My production hives I checked last week also and they're still low, but they are working the goldenrod so I'm going to give them a couple more weeks to see how things go.


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## Allen (Oct 5, 2011)

Forgot to mention.
The last few mornings I'm seeing dead bees, both workers and drones plus pupae being drug out of the hive during the night.
Guess they are cleaning house before the cold spell.


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## delber (Dec 26, 2010)

I have seen them take drone pupae out of the cells before they're finished when they determine that the drones must go.


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## virginiawolf (Feb 18, 2011)

Pennsylvania is so beautiful this time of year.
There are still a few flowers here and the golden rod has been out for a while.
How late do you you folks feed till?


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## mulesii (Jun 10, 2012)

I went into my hives yesterday and in one there were a few cells uncapped with pupae inside. I assume they were drones.


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## delber (Dec 26, 2010)

I'll feed almost as late as I NEED to. Last year I fed until the end of November. The issue is that the bees need to be able to get the water off of the feed so if they can't get out then it's too late to feed them. If the temps during the day aren't getting up above 60 then that's where I stop. I know that this weekend it's supposed to get pretty cold during the night, but the daytime temps are fine for them to fly and for opening them up. I checked two hives today and they're doing well for now. The way I feed is with an empty super / deep on top and shims on the top bars and I invert old plastic yogurt containers with holes cut in the rim so the lid fills up with syrup and they can take it right out of there as fast as they want. This way they are in direct contact with the feed jar and can keep it warm being above the cluster. This enables me to feed in temps that get well below 50 as long as they can get out during the day. They wont' take syrup that's below 50 and they won't fly much before 50.


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## Grandpa Jim (Apr 20, 2007)

> On another note. . . Does anyone know how late is too late to rear queens in our area? I see some of you are in Chester Co. but what experience do you all have in this? I have 2 hives w/ queens in process and looking at the calendar inspection on the latest seems to be early / mid next month. Is this too late? I had a batch of queens that 1/2 of them didn't pan out so well. I have some good queens but not "enough" to overwinter what I wanted this year. Any thoughts?


My last 2 queens of the year mated early to mid Sept and were laying nice patterns by the 3rd week. I have 2 frame mating hives (4 in one deep hive body) and combined the last one that 3rd week into 2 / 4 frame nucs (in one hive body) and added 5 shallow frames of honey on top of each. They should be set for winter.

I have only began to smell that fall honey in the last week. Seems there are 2 types of golden rod. I have seen one plant that has bloomed and now has seeds forming and a plant with just opening flowers next to it. On a calm day I can smell that honey more than 100 feet from the hives.

Jim


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## delber (Dec 26, 2010)

Well guys I typically wouldn't do this but I feel the need due to several fronts. This is regarding a "anti beekeeping law" or regulation that seems to be in the works. I just got this e-mail from our beekeeping club and I thought it would be good to pass this along. If there's anyone that could make it to speak tomorrow at this meeting I think it would be good. Here's the e-mail. . . 

Hello, everyone:

Below is an email from J*** M***** who holds dual mmbership in the CCBA as well as in the Montgomery County Beekeepers Association. On Saturday, Jack brought our attention a developing anti-bee ordinance in Plymouth Township, Montgomery County. It seems that one person who lives four doors away from a beekeeper has concerns about the safety of their child.

At the website listed below, there is a link to more information as well as a way to sign an on-line petition.

The next township meeting is tomorrow, October 8 --- please take a minute to review the information and to consider signing the petition.

Even though this is not occurring in Chester County, it is important to lend a voice. If the ability to keep bees is taken away in one township, adjacent townships may feel a need to review their position on keeping bees and then who knows what will happen? It may be our best chance to act as beekeepers to stop this nonsense before it really gets started.

Here are the main points:

~Minimum lot size: 12,000 or 15,000 sq. ft.

~Hives must be in rear yard

~Limit of 2 hives regardless of acreage

~Beekeeping is an accessory use to a residence.

~20 foot setback from property line

~40 foot setback from nearest residential dwelling

~75 foot setback from a neighhbor's pool

~Requirement to take a beekeeping training course

~Possible registration with the township in order to inspect beekeepers for conformity to this ordinance

~Emergency contact information with a backup contact must be provided in case of a swarm.

~Comply with PA Dept. of Ag. Beekeeper's Compliance Agreement


So that's the latest. If anyone is interested in attending Monday night's public meeting, it will be at 700 Belvoir Road, Plymouth Meeting, PA 19462. The meeting starts at 7pm. If anyone knows Plymouth residents who would be willing to come out and speak, please encourage people to pass the word. 

We are also maintaining www.saveourgardens.org to keep meeting information posted. There is also an online petition that people can sign through that website.

Thanks so much for spreading the word. Have a great weekend,


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## virginiawolf (Feb 18, 2011)

Thanks for responding about the feeding Delber. I have a few that I want to keep feeding for a while and your response was helpful:thumbsup:

I also signed the petition. I pointed out that keeping more than two hives is part of swarm management and rearing local queens etc. I also mentioned about the gentle nature of honeybees and how that beekeepers spread awareness in the community about the importance of insects etc.

My neighbors have thanked me for having bees. They said that their gardens have never done so well. Seriously 


I hope that this anti-bee ordinance doesn't happen.


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