# New Beekeeper, small cell v/s big cell



## RaytownDave (Mar 28, 2005)

Sorry, one more question does any bee work on small cell? I will either be getting Italian or Caucasian. I wont' know till they get here.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Hi all, another new person question or questions:
First, smaller is better for mite prevention but what are the drawbacks?

The effort and cost of going through two changes of all the comb in all of your hives. Other than that, none.

>Second, what exactly should I ask for when I'm buying my frames and foundation. What is "small cell" size v/s "large cell size"?

4.9mm foundation is available from Brushy Mt. and Dadant. THAT is small cell. They don't specify cell size on "large cell" but it is all somewhere around 5.4mm. If it's not labeld as 4.9mm then it's not small cell.

>Third, do you put small cell in the hive body only or the supers too?

I don't use an excluder and I like to be able to extract and have drawn comb to work with for packages etc., so I would use it everywhere or use foundationless. Since the bees will build small cell on their own, the foundation is not required. It's just how most people already keep bees.

>I feel foolish but I don't really know if they are different sizes.

What are different sizes? Supers? Some people use all the same size boxes (depth). Some run all deeps. I run all mediums (as do many others). The "standard" seems to be deeps for brood and shallows or mediums or a mixture of the two for supers.

>Fourth, and Michael your web page led me to this question, should I consider having no foundation and letting the bees make their own.

I would certainly consider it. But then I do it a lot.









> Doesn't this lead to all kinds of problems??? 

No. What kind of problems would you expect? They will occasionally build a frame of drone and I just move it to the edge of the brood nest (if it ended up in the middle). They need some brood. If they don't need the comb for drone brood they will just fill it with honey.

>Yours looked great in the picture but I have a feeling this would be not a great way for a beginner to start.

You have to be careful handling foundationless. You have to handle it like a top bar hive. That is, you can't turn a frame flatways until the comb is attached on at least three sides or a comb full of honey will break at the top bar. This is just common sense if you are paying attention. I would put at least one full sheet of foundation down the middle frame (or better yet a drawn comb) but other than that, it's not difficult. There is nothing that requires experience. The bees will do their thing regardless.

> I go in on Monday to purchase the hives and put them together any advice is appreciated.

Decide what you want to lift. A full deep is 90 pounds. A full medium is 60 pounds. A full 8 frame medium is 48 pounds. Do you want interchangability? I do. If you do, then get all the same size boxes and frames. Mine are all mediums and I've started buying all eight frame boxes from Brushy Mt. If you don't specify what you want, they will try to sell you a typical hive which is two deeps for the brood and shallows or mediums for supers. I would buy all the same size. Also most suppliers don't stock small cell foundation. You may have to order it from Dadant or Brushy Mt.

>Sorry, one more question does any bee work on small cell? I will either be getting Italian or Caucasian. I wont' know till they get here.

They all work fine. I'd probably go for the Caucasians out of those two, but I've really liked the Carniolans better than either of those.


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## RaytownDave (Mar 28, 2005)

Michael, 

Would you recommend replacing the queen this summer with a Russian queen or a nice feral queen from PA this July? I have a gift certificate for a replacement Russian queen for that time that I won at a beekeeping meeting.


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## RaytownDave (Mar 28, 2005)

Can I just start my new bee package on 4.9 cell or do I need to start large and then get small? 

Michael, I'm going to research your web page more and figure out what questions I have about letting the bees wing it without foundation. I know that one question is that everyone I have talked to says that the bees will build comb everywhere and make a mess of your hive. How do you prevent this.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Would you recommend replacing the queen this summer with a Russian queen or a nice feral queen from PA this July?

A feral queen would be my first choice. I have some that are closer to you in climate, but PA is a cold climate and would probably do well.

>I have a gift certificate for a replacement Russian queen for that time that I won at a beekeeping meeting.

That works ok too.

>Can I just start my new bee package on 4.9 cell or do I need to start large and then get small?

I would always start them on small cell. You'll be one step ahead. Starting them on large cell when you intend to regress is a bad idea.

>Michael, I'm going to research your web page more and figure out what questions I have about letting the bees wing it without foundation. I know that one question is that everyone I have talked to says that the bees will build comb everywhere and make a mess of your hive. How do you prevent this.

One drawn comb down the middle is great insurance. But I've put them in a whole hive of nothing but foundationless frames and they have done fine too.

Once in a while, if you don't put either a fully drawn comb or at least a sheet of foundation down the middle, they will get a wild hair and go some other direction, but usually not. I've never had them mess it up if they had a fully drawn comb down the middle of the hive.

I've done top bars with no comb guide at all except for the center comb and started them in a five frame nuc and moved to an eight, ten and finally a 33 frame hive. They did fine with no comb guide at all other than the starter strip on the center bar.


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## RaytownDave (Mar 28, 2005)

Drawn comb is for comb honey right not extracted honey?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Drawn comb is just drawn comb. If you have a drawn and capped frame you can put it in the middle to keep the bees headed in the right direction. There's no reason you can't remove it later and cut it for comb honey if that's what you want. Of course the longer it's in the hive the more traffic and the less white the comb will be.


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## wayacoyote (Nov 3, 2003)

I guess spacing is important too... I've been convinced during my current regression that they do draw better with smaller that "traditional" spacing. 

WayaCoyote


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I do have better luck on 1 1/4" spacing. But then that's what they do if I let them.









http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bush/images/CombSpacing30.JPG


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