# Where / How Do I Have My Bees / Honey Tested?



## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

the state bee lab here only test for a limited number of problems the primary thing being africanization.

for a bit more complete lab word you need to send sample to the usda lab (which I think is in beltsville maryland) WVa beekeeper has the web site address (or at least he gave it to me at one time but I can't seem to find it at this time).


----------



## okb (Apr 16, 2007)

http://www.ars.usda.gov/Services/docs.htm?docid=7472

This is a link to the USDA lab.


----------



## MapMan (May 24, 2007)

Questions:

How much of a die-off do you have? And, is the loss the same every year? Also, have you checked with others in the area to see what their losses have been for past winters? Winter die-off can be from so many factors - management, climate/weather, diseases, etc. I'd continue to check with local organizations - beekeeper organizations might be able to get things moving for you, and help you ascertain the problem. I think that you really have to eliminate management and climate factors before you go to USDA testing. 

So many of our governmental testing facilities are overused because they are thought of as being "free", without the consideration that resources taken up without first investigating other factors only causes backlogs and soon there will be a fee to cover routine testing. Mark my words.

MM


----------



## Bob D (May 15, 2005)

*Most Likely My Mistakes, but....*

I have 4 hives and I generally loose 3 a year and the final one each year is seriously struggling after winter.

The reason I say it's most likely my errors is because I'm new and really want to do this, but don't really know what I'm doing. The text books just don't do it for me and I've attended 2 different "bee schools" at local "clubs/organizations" who preach of an abundant amount of help if you have problems... Then, the bees come and school's over! Then trying to get someone to stop by to give me some insight is like pulling teeth without pain killers using a pair of pliers! So, I go at it on my own and each year loose 75% of my hives.

I understand people are busy and I can't have then over my house at my hives every time I go out to feed or check my hives. I understand that. But to get someone to stop by for 1 day and stick around for more than 30 minutes once a year is impossible!

It appears I do have a couple of volunteers that are also new beekeepers (because the experienced ones don't seem to have the time for beginners) that are willing to stop by from time to time and work with me and I will do the same with them. Also, the person I get my bee packages from said I can tag along when he inspects and works his hives this spring and maybe learn something. So, I'll give that a go too.

The thing that bothers me is, people here on Beesource are kind, compassionate and seem to really want to help! I only wish I could get that out of the clubs where I am a member or if some of you all lived within a 1/2 hour or so away and I'd be glad to go to you and learn with you working your hives and, if by chance you can spend 1 day with me at my hives, I'd be incredibly appreciative! This is something I've wanted to do since I was a kid and I'm finally in the position to do it but just can't seem to get it going and can't afford the losses every year.

So, I'm most likely doing some wrong; maybe even something minor that snowballs - but, it is most likely me and I'm not ashamed to admit that. But, you don't take driver's education classes then they give you a car and go away! There’s the hands on driving experience with an instructor too! So, without that final stage of it, I seem to have missed something someplace and continue to do the same thing wrong and keep loosing 75% of my hives every year.

What is happening is my girls are building up great stores - I even give them 3 deeps to winter with (SE New Hampshire) to insure they have plenty and I get a couple honey supers to pull off for myself. Hives are strong all summer and into the winter.

January comes and we get a warm day and there are a zillion bees flying in front of each hive.... February comes and we have a warm day and there are a lot of bees flying.... Plenty of stores left too.... Then March comes and there are very few flying mainly in front of 1 hive... 3 are quiet. So, on a warm day in late march, I inspect the quiet hives and see a big pile of dead bees at the bottom of the hive. Then when I go through the deeps frame by frame, it looks like a perfectly good working hive... IN A PHOTOGRAPH! What I mean by that are there are bees standing all over the place on the honey and comb, dozens of others have their butts sticking out of cells they are working on.... but, they are all dead. I just don't get it.

My first bug mistake is I do not treat with anything for mites as I've hoped to be able to do it "all natural." Last year I was told I may have a high mite count as someone stopped by for about 20 minutes and aid they saw mites on several of the live bees on a frame and mites on my bottom board. So, it may be mites. But, someone else said it sounds more like a virus. SO, I just don't know.

I'm committed to this and I want to learn and make it work. So, I was talk about a sugar blaster that may work and someone else told me about another way with an acid that I (I forget the exact term right now) fumigate the hive with. It's supposed to be natural so I am trying to learn about that and when I'm supposed to do it.

Anyway, that's my issue. Sorry for the long sob story but I'm getting disheartened here and this is a lifelong dream of mine and, most likely, it’s something easily resolved if someone just want to look and give me some insight.

Thanks for listening everyone.

Bob


----------



## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

for some reason (I am not certain why) your problem sounds like trachael mites. if this problem were mine and the problem kept repeating itself I would collect up a small bottle of dead bees and send it off to the usda lab. although the test are called free, they are actually already paid by you the tax payer and if some simple test resolves your problem then that is why (the purpose) the lab is there in the first place.

simple question: do you acquire your bees from the same sources year after year?


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>My first bug mistake is I do not treat with anything for mites as I've hoped to be able to do it "all natural."

Your first mistake was thinking that you didn't have to monitor the mites. Your second mistake was thinking you didn't have to do anything for the mites. You can do it "all natural" but you'll have to do something.

> Last year I was told I may have a high mite count as someone stopped by for about 20 minutes and aid they saw mites on several of the live bees on a frame and mites on my bottom board.

That's a pretty good indication that you had a lot of Varroa, but since you didn't monitor you can't know for sure. But that would be my guess.

> So, it may be mites. But, someone else said it sounds more like a virus.

Varroa spread viruses.

> SO, I just don't know.

Although you didn't gather the information to know for sure, I think Varroa is a safe bet for taking the blame.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beespests.htm#varroa


----------



## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

So far as I know, the University of New Hampshire does not have an entomology department or program (entomology is the study of insects), and most likely does not have an apiculture program or even a specialist. In other words, UNH most likely will not have anyone who can or will "test" bees or honey.

As far as your losses, I agree with Michael Bush to some extent. _Varroa_ mites are a pretty safe bet to blame for your losses. Monitoring mite populations is important, even if you have the goal of "natural" or "chemical-free" bees. I've recommended to other beginners (and I will to you, too) that you may wish to keep your of "natural" bees as a long-term goal, and be prepared to use chemicals as "rescue treatments" if mites or other problems reach a point where you're likely to lose many hives.

Also, three deeps sounds like a lot of room for overwintering in your location. Some researchers have suggested that three deeps may not offer any advantage over two deeps, and three deeps may have the additional disadvantage of having too much space. Depending on how many years you've had losses like you describe, you might want to consider some other methods of overwintering (two deeps rather than three, wrapping hives, different race of bees, etcetera) in some of your hives to see if some other method(s) might give you greater success.


----------



## Bob D (May 15, 2005)

*Other Ideas*

Thanks for the reploes this far... I'l keep checking for others.

As for other ideas, I think I may try to Sugar Blaster and/or the vaporizor treetment with the oxic (sp) acid. That's supposed to be natural and can be done (correct me if I'm wrong) anytime until I put on the honey supers.

Also, maybe not this year, but next year if I can get at least 2 surviving and strong hives through the winter, I may requeen in at least 1 of my hives with a Russia (as pure bred as I can get) as I understand (again, correct me if I'm wrong) they winter well in a small cluster and are FAR more resistent (most likely not the right word) to the Virora Mites.

Any ideas on this?

Thanks! I'm all ears (or eyes as this case may be) for comments, suggestions and ideas! 

Bob
SE New Hampshire


----------



## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

Oxalic acid is illegal for use against _Varroa_ in the United States.

Some beekeepers report success with "sugar blasting," others report dismal results.

Why not consider "drone trapping?" If you only have a few hives, drone trapping may be worthwhile. The labor involved makes it impractical for larger operations.

But first, you should check _Varroa_ populations in your hives. Search for "sugar roll" or "ether roll" or "sticky board" here on BeeSource for some information on how to monitor mite populations.

Russian bees might be an option; Carniolan might, too, depending on what is actually causing your winter losses. Carniolans overwinter with relatively small clusters. They would not need three deeps for overwintering in your climate. In my experience, the smallest possible space to overwinter successfully (they still need enough room for their cluster and whatever stores will be needed by that cluster) seems to be the most successful.


----------



## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

I think??? kieck should have said that oxalic has not been approved as a treatment (I don't think anyone has paid to get oxalic listed as an approved remedy).

I would suggest that before you get sidetracked into thinking that this or that race of bees will be a solution to your problem that perhaps collecting a bit of information on id'ing the problem might be worthwhile.

if it turns out varroa is your problem (and there is nothing that suggest your problem might not be several things) and you still desire to remain 'natural' then I would think about screened bottom boards and powdered sugar dusting. in the spring time here I do a lot of scraping of drone brood which I think has two benefits 1) it interrupts the varroa cycle early and 2) it gives you a very approximate test of varroa levels (drone brood in the burr comb between the hive bodies should point you to the same conclusion).


----------



## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

Just to clarify this situation:

"Not approved as a treatment" = "illegal." Plain and simple. Only "approved" (or "labeled") pesticides can be used legally for pest control. Oxalic acid can be considered a pesticide, and is not labeled for use in bee hives; therefore, use of oxalic acid is illegal at this time in bee hives.

In the future, oxalic acid may be labeled for use in bee hives, but it is not and has not been labeled in the U. S. yet.

Beekeepers have been caught using oxalic acid in their hives and fined.

I think tecumseh is right when he writes that any particular race of bees may not be the solution to your problem, for two reasons: 1) no race of bees is a "magic bullet," and, 2) you have not defined the source of the problem yet.

If "overwintering with too large a cluster and too few stores" is your problem, and you're currently keeping Italian bees, switching to a different race may improve the survival rate of your bees. If not, you may have to do considerably more than simply switch race.


----------



## Robert Brenchley (Apr 23, 2000)

It could be varroa, tracheal, or plain queen failure. Do you raise queens at a time when you have loads of drones in your hives? If not, you may need to raise them later in the season. Equally, you may simply buy them in; I'm coming from a UK perspective, and we have no queen raising industry. 

You may be using a strain which is susceptible to TM, in which case you need to restrain. Again, this is more of a US problem. We traditionally use rather small hives, and according to one source, bees with TM are more active in winter, use more food, and often starve in our National hives.

Then you may be going into winter with too great a varroa/virus load, in which case you need to look at autumn treatments. I don't really know what's legal over there, but I use Apiguard for autumn treatments, when I need to, and as a routine treatment, oxalic trickling around Christmas or New Year.


----------

