# Easiest way to raise Queens for da hobbiest



## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

pretty much sounds like the Case Method of queen cell production. of course to really raise queens a couple of extra steps or processes are needed.

in the past I have used a grafting type methods for queen production. this year once the nuc making crunch is past I will likely employ the case method using a swarm box with a alightly altered rim which sets on top the swarm box (this is designed to hold the frame 90 degrees from it's typical orientation).

never having employed this method and 'kinda knowin' all queen cell rearing is about detail and nuiance I suspect the frame set on top of the box would need to be lift or shimmed up a bit??? if not I suspect (once again not certain here, but sounds reasonable) that either you would have insufficient room for the queen cells proper development or they would quickly become attached to the frame below (and therefore removal without running the cells would be impossible).

most non grafting method of this type (smith method, etc) says leave one row of cell and strike down two in both direction (this essential equates to leaving 1 of every 9 cells on the face of the frame).


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## Camp9 (Feb 7, 2006)

simplyhoney said:


> You may want to remove a few cells that are in areas where there were slightly older larva. These cells mature faster and if they hatch out it will be disaster. Make your nucs at this time. put the cells in 3 days later. Most of them will not be fully developed but will be far enough along that they only need a couple of days of incubation from the bees in the nuc.
> 
> Hope this helps a few of ya'll,
> b


Sounds like a fun project. Help me out here, what do you do with the queen cells after you cut them out and your waiting 3 days to put them in the nuc?

Camp


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## beedeetee (Nov 27, 2004)

tecumseh said:


> never having employed this method and 'kinda knowin' all queen cell rearing is about detail and nuiance I suspect the frame set on top of the box would need to be lift or shimmed up a bit???


I have read that you put the frame with eggs on an empty (wooden not plastic) frame to raise it up off the top of the actual hive frames.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I find buying queens and cells to be the easiest way to raise queens for ones own use. But not as easy as finding and using swarm cells.


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

bdt writes:
I have read that you put the frame with eggs on an empty (wooden not plastic) frame

tecumseh> my question is how much?

camp 9 writes:
what do you do with the queen cells after you cut them out and your waiting 3 days to put them in the nuc?

tecumseh> most folks pull cells 10 days after grafting.. in you want a hotter queen cell you could play with fire a bit and wait 11. the time lag in making up nucs would be prior to this date (ie prior to day 10 or 11).


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## BeeAware (Mar 24, 2007)

The easiest way that I know to raise a few queens is to find swarm or supercedure cells and place them, bees and all in a nuc. If cells are one more than one frame, use a deep hive body divided into two or four nucs as needed. This requires very little labor or time on the beekeeper's part.

I am finding that it is extremely important to keep a few nucs and queens on hand at all times, including overwintering them where possible. If you need queens in early spring, you're likely out of luck. Queen suppliers are mostly as useless as teats on a boar hog during early spring.


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

*Roll your owns*

If you don't want to wait for cells just make a small colony with say 4 frames brood & honey and shake 2 or 3 frames of bees in too. You want more bees than brood, not the other way around. Feed before & during if possible but not essential. The bees will raise a new queen and she should begin laying in just under 30 days.


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

BeeAware said:


> The easiest way that I know to raise a few queens is to find swarm or supercedure cells and place them, bees and all in a nuc. If cells are one more than one frame, use a deep hive body divided into two or four nucs as needed. This requires very little labor or time on the beekeeper's part.
> 
> I am finding that it is extremely important to keep a few nucs and queens on hand at all times, including overwintering them where possible. If you need queens in early spring, you're likely out of luck. Queen suppliers are mostly as useless as teats on a boar hog during early spring.


Here's a great old time saying: " there are few beekeeping emergencies which cannot be remedied by either removing or installing a nucleus colony."


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

http://www.bushfarms.com/beeshopkinsmethod.htm


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## HAB (May 17, 2008)

Queen suppliers are mostly as useless as teats on a boar hog during early spring.[/QUOTE]

Wow!! That's exactly the way I describe my oldest stepson. Maybe, if he ever gets out from in front of a Video Game, he could become an "Early Spring Queen Supplier."
He's got useless down to an ART.


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## HAB (May 17, 2008)

After reading all the replies, I still feel that the EASIEST way to raise Queens is to do "Walk Away Splits." Just split into Nucs and forget them for a month. May not get the Volume of Queens, but nothing else mentioned seems EASIER. Except for baiting/catching swarms.


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## Bizzybee (Jan 29, 2006)

Walk away splits aren't a bad thing. But if you want better queens from them, there's a little more to it.

One is that you go to the hive and tear down any dinks you find. "Sometimes" when the bees are faced with making emergency cells, they will use much older larva. The cells will be smaller and the queens will also be smaller. They will likely make it and mate but won't amount to much. If you're making the split just for the sake of making a split and you don't intend to cut cells. You should still tear the dinks down and do it early. They will be the first to hatch and kill the better queens before they hatch.

Another option is to make sure you are putting plenty of eggs in the split and as little larva as possible or at least large larva. Go back to the hive in 4 days and tear down all cells being built, forcing them to use the younger larva that has just hatched.

Numbers are hit and miss. I've seen as low as a couple and as many as 20 cells in a split. If you need more than you got, cut the cells, shake the bees off the frame and trade it out with a new frame of eggs from a donor hive and do it again.

It depends on the bees and Italians do it better than any. They can always be depended on to make plenty of cells. Even when grafting, I prefer to have Italians for drawing the cells for any bees I'm grafting from.


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## simplyhoney (Sep 14, 2004)

*Cool lots of response*

good comments by all. A couple of things to clearify. When I said put the frame on top I meant that you need to leave 4-5 frames out of the top super so there is plenty of room for them to draw the cell. 
You don't cut the cells out until you need them, 10-12 days after you start. you make your splits on day 7 or 8 so that the new nucs will have time to loose queen pharamone and will accept the cells well. Remember....the larger the nuc...typically the longer it takes for them to all agree they are queenless.
As for splittin and walking away.......great but you will almost always start to notice a genetic return to a feral bee that has traits that you don't want. In addition as someone else said, if the bees feel stressed they will raise a sub-par queen from older larva.
Finally, be careful using swarm cells. It is my belief that when the cells are about 8-10 days old they make a chemical connection with many workers in the hive and start to form a swarm even before they hatch. I have, on several occasions used swarm cells in nucs only to have the queen and a small number of attendants leave soon after she hatched. On the other hand I have had success with it also. I would suggest using the swarm cell as soon as it is capped and let the nuc finish incubating it.

Just my opinion, B


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## Camp9 (Feb 7, 2006)

These are all great comments. It's all starting to make since looking back at some of my attempts as to what I did wrong, and why some turned out ok. Thanks,

Camp


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## SlickMick (Feb 28, 2009)

That is an interesting technique. How do you get on with an oen hive in shb country?

That would be quite problematical where I live


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## simplyhoney (Sep 14, 2004)

Right Mick, not sure about that one as we don't and have never had shb.


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## SlickMick (Feb 28, 2009)

Yeah, I think what ever technique I used would have to be in a closed hive and because I have only 3 smallish hives at the moment it would be during splits


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