# Help-Bee Problem: Is it illegal to spray and kill nuisance bees in NYS?



## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Jim, leaving the cone in place and removing the box is irresponsible. I would tell the building owner that "his" beekeeper is not getting the job done and is just allowing the bees to die. As far as the cone, you cannot remove it without the building owner's permission as it is there at his request. You can however put up your own box and bait it with some lemon grass oil or get in touch with another beekeeper to continue working the trap out. Keep in mind the purpose of the cone is to prevent the bees from going back into the wall. Once they come out, they should not be able to get back in through the cone if it is properly made. Sounds a little big to me. Trying to kill the hive is not a good idea since once the bees are dead, the mice and roaches move in.


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## Palmyra Jim (Sep 1, 2018)

Thank you...from what I understood, once the box is removed there isn't any trapping.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

There is no reason to save worker bees, their lifespan is total six weeks.

If the queen has not been recovered, the colony has not been saved. The client has paid to save dying bees. 

Extermination costs a fraction of the price of a trapout.

A package of bees and a young queen can be bought for $125, that is all your bees are worth. The cost of labor to trapout bees is much more than the bees value. I have heard of trapout scammers charging as much as $3000 to clients naive enough to pay that.

The beekeeper is the main beneficiary of the trapout, bees and money if it works, which as you have found out, it often doesn't.

It is not illegal to exterminate problem bee colonies in my county, I checked with the AG department.

The cone should pass into the box to contain the bees properly, if the beekeeper wants to waste his time and you your money.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Ollie, everything you say is true but I think you missed the OPs point. He was asking about interfering with another beekeeper's trapout on someone elses property. I think he is free to entice the bees into his own box, especially since the trapout appears to be discontinued. But to spray those bees with a pesticide himself might be considered tresspass, or worse.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Blow the dead bees back over to the neighbors frontage. Easier than sweeping, they are his anyways, you are just returning them.


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## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

After seven weeks the hive should be dead or nearly dead...Unless there is another entrance. You describe a failed trap out. Sweeping the dead bees as suggested by odfrank seems like a great protest.

You could always force the issue by checking for ordinances about nuisance bees. It is unwise, considering one per cent of the population is deathly allergic to bee stings, to allow a colony to live that close to a public place.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

Palmyra Jim said:


> Sorry posted in the wrong forum-----
> 
> 
> 
> ...


in NY if you spray the bees you will be in violation of the DEC laws and if you don't have a pesticide applicators lic. last I remember up to a maximum fine of $10,000 and subject to all the fun they can inflict. call Paul Cappy at ags and markets 518-457-2087 and email him at [email protected] . He should be able to help you out as they have all the power of dictators in Ny state :shhhh:


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## Palmyra Jim (Sep 1, 2018)

Thank you all for your thoughts and information. I talked with the bee keeper today. Besides laughing at how helpless I am to do anything, he said if the building inspector says anything, he will just say that they are working on it as fast as is possible. I guess it is up to me to make a case for expecting things to move a little faster than 7 ti 10 weeks. Today I watched a steady stream of bees crawl through the duct tape. There are definitely more bees than there were a week ago.

Apparently the hive swarmed last week but it is still pretty active. 

I have a friend who is licensed who could do the job if given permission. I will give Paul Cappy a call on Tuesday.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

So not only is the beekeeper not very good, he is a class A jerk too. Sorry that you are having to deal with the bottom of the barrel. Good luck with getting the bees removed.

FWIW, a trap out does take a long time. 10 weeks is not at all unreasonable, but he should be wrapping it up by now. Sounds like he is stalled at the starting gate.


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

Palmyra Jim said:


> The cone is hanging over my property. My property comes right up to their building, so I can spray the cone


Then you own the air and can put your own beekeepers box up to your line. Depending upon where the line is you just might happen to push the cone tight enough against the wall.

Sometimes vandals will keep stealing cones for some reason. The non keeper has to enter your property to place (replace) the cone?

Does your "neighbor" have deeded access rights to his building or just your good will?

If you kill the bees are you ready for the running honey; flies ants etc. Hope that is a honey tight wall.


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## Palmyra Jim (Sep 1, 2018)

Saltybee said:


> Then you own the air and can put your own beekeepers box up to your line. Depending upon where the line is you just might happen to push the cone tight enough against the wall.
> 
> Sometimes vandals will keep stealing cones for some reason. The non keeper has to enter your property to place (replace) the cone?
> 
> ...



He does have to enter my property. It may be time to deny him access to force the issue. Yesterday he said they could just remove the cone and I would have to live with the hive since it won't damage the building in any way. Strange response. I do not see a reason to allow them to continue since what he is doing is ineffective.


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

Well I'm not sure if you have a spiteful neighbor or an indifferent neighbor, either way you do not have a good neighbor. I would not hesitate to use your leverage. That neighbor may be grandfathered for the building setback but not for the recent beekeeping. It is a NY ( guessing NY aren't I) question of wild or kept bees; Wildbranch2007 or his lead may help there.

Pictures will get you much better advise, from better sources than I, on setting up trapout.

Trapout speed and success has much to do with how far the brood nest is from the entrance from what I read here. Brood in the box greatly increases success and speed, working with a keep is far ahead of a bare box.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

If the bees did swarm as Jim stated, piss poor beekeeping missed a golden oportunity to capture both queens and put this to bed in a few short weeks. A box with a queen excluder would have gotten the old queen and the swarm. The second box without a qe would have gotten the returning newly mated queen. After that it would have been nothing but waiting for the nurse bees to venture out. Pics would be a good idea.


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## Palmyra Jim (Sep 1, 2018)

Photos of the cone....when we first started he had a bee box on the roof of the canopy that sat on the cement ledge. It was there for 3 weeks...two of which he was on vacation and never checked the box.


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

Still waiting for approval on attachments!


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## Palmyra Jim (Sep 1, 2018)

Thank you all for your assistance. Finally the beekeeper replaced the "wizard hat" with a more professional cone that is keeping the bees out. It took a lot of prodding that was interpreted as harassment but it is not a solid cone. After three days the bees swarmed just as I was leaving the store. It was amazing to watch them pour out of the cone one right after the other. From the road, it was a cloud of bees 20 feet wide and 30 feet high, not solid but definitely different than what I was used to seeing. The next day, there were hardly any bees left and with the restriction from the cone one would think the problem will be resolved soon.

I must admit, being a nature lover and tree hugger, with everything I learned over the last 12 weeks, I just might get a hive for my home. There are several ads for used hives from retired beekeepers.....my wife just might leave me though...*S*

thank you all again for the information. Paul Cappy in Albany with very helpful with some guidance and the legal issues.


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## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

It would be a bad conclusion to think your bee issue is over. There are likely bees remaining in the structure to continue the colony. Regardless, the entrance(s) M-U-S-T be closed permanently to stop next year's swarms settling in the same location. JMO


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

They may have absconded, or they may have swarmed. Totally different result as stated above..


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## canadiyank (Apr 7, 2018)

Following along...this is very interesting. There's an old building in town next to my friend's house that has a colony in it. The owners haven't found a solution (it's cement block) and it keeps throwing swarms so it's kind of a fun thing to watch. But it's way up high in the building and not bothering anyone.


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

Meghan, 
Are you a swarm trapper yet?


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Let's see, you become a beekeeper and the wife leaves of her own accord. I'm struggling to see a downside to this.


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## Slow Drone (Apr 19, 2014)

JWPalmer said:


> Let's see, you become a beekeeper and the wife leaves of her own accord. I'm struggling to see a downside to this.


:lpf: That's a good one JW!


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## canadiyank (Apr 7, 2018)

Saltybee said:


> Meghan,
> Are you a swarm trapper yet?


Not a successful one!


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

wildbranch2007 said:


> in NY if you spray the bees you will be in violation of the DEC laws and if you don't have a pesticide applicators lic. last I remember up to a maximum fine of $10,000 and subject to all the fun they can inflict. call Paul Cappy at ags and markets 518-457-2087 and email him at [email protected] . He should be able to help you out as they have all the power of dictators in Ny state :shhhh:


So, You say it is illegal to spray and kill nuisance bees in NYS?
or you say it's illegal to spray and kill nuisance bees on someone else's property without a applicators license?


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## whiskers (Aug 28, 2011)

I doubt that it's legal to spray (even unintentionally, say by wind drift) someone else's property without permission.

With permission, you may be considered a contractor, and an applicators license required.

On your property that you live on you are probably OK although there might be special rules for commercial property.

If there are rules protecting whatever you are killing (even by accident) those rules would take precedent.

Bill


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

clyderoad said:


> So, You say it is illegal to spray and kill nuisance bees in NYS?
> or you say it's illegal to spray and kill nuisance bees on someone else's property without a applicators license?


ask the op what cappy told him.


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## Palmyra Jim (Sep 1, 2018)

I agree...

The day the swarmed I had set up a shop vac to pull the bees into once they came out of the cone. I was there all day for some projects. It worked really well (Paul Cappy suggested that was the only way to really keep the bees from buzzing my customers and will get them as they come out so they will not be there to get back in). I checked with the NYS Conservation Officer also and was told the same thing as long as I was doing for myself (my property, my self).

They plan to seal the opening up come winter to prevent other colonies from coming in. Still need to watch the situation and be prepared to take steps to manage the bees from my end. The new cone is doing the job it is supposed to do and keeping them from getting back in. Too bad it took 11 weeks for them to figure that part out.


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## Palmyra Jim (Sep 1, 2018)

wildbranch2007 said:


> ask the op what cappy told him.


It is illegal for someone to spray for nuisance bees on someone else's property without an applicators license. I am not clear on my own property. Didn't ask about that. I was impressed with how clear the Conservation Officer was....you could check with them.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

Palmyra Jim said:


> It is illegal for someone to spray for nuisance bees on someone else's property without an applicators license. I am not clear on my own property. Didn't ask about that. I was impressed with how clear the Conservation Officer was....you could check with them.


you can spray on your own property, that pesky applicators license is the key, and the label. to the best of my knowledge there are no laws restricting killing bees, but everyone forgets about the DEC and the Feds. and the labels.


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## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

Is it illegal to kill the bees, or, is it illegal to use a registered pesticide without an applicator's license to kill bees? You can kill bees with soapy water...Is that illegal? Is it illegal to use a registered pesticide and not accept money for doing it? I suspect you can kill bees with soapy water without a license and it is not illegal. Lots of grey area in these issues.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

wildbranch2007 said:


> you can spray on your own property, that pesky applicators license is the key, and the label. to the best of my knowledge there are no laws restricting killing bees, but everyone forgets about the DEC and the Feds. and the labels.


Everyone forgets the DEC and the Federal pesticide labels?? I don't think so.
I also don't think Cappy has any jurisdiction regarding this issue and the call should have been first to the NYDEC.

To be clear,
It is not illegal to spray and kill nuisance honey bees in NYS, they are not protected.
One must follow all applicable applicator and pesticides laws when doing so.


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