# Mean Bees



## ken rice (Apr 28, 2010)

You should bee feeding 2to1 instead of 1to1 2 sugar to 1 water


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## AuntBee (Apr 26, 2011)

Okay. Will that help with their temperament?


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## scrapiron (Aug 18, 2011)

Is there any nectar/pollen stored? They will get grouchy with no food. Keep feeding. 
Are your queens coming from your Apiary? You may want to order one this time and get some new genetics in the pool.


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## Ben Franklin (May 3, 2011)

My hive was hot hot hot then I found out it was queenless. Now it is just a hot hive.
Even one of my nucs is hot.
As I understand it hot hives are usally more productive. But I will be looking to requeen next season early.
*So here's my question: Will I just have to wait for all of my old queen's daughters to hatch out and die off before my hive calms down? Or, might it be just the presence of the old bee and her pheromone that has kept them so riled up? Any tips for calming down the back yard environment will be appreciated.

* The hot daughters will have to expire in order for the new queens temperament comes to light.


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## AuntBee (Apr 26, 2011)

They have some stored pollen, but I set out a pollen patty last weekend. They are pretty much ignoring it. My first queen came with my bee package, but I lost her in the first swarm. A new queen hatched and then left with the second swarm. A queen hatched after that, but didn't lay, so I replaced her with one my brother had. She's done really well with increasing the size of the hive, but she's the one we killed this morning. He lives about 20 miles from me and has about 8 hives, all of which are calm and cooperative. I'm hoping that the new queen I will be getting from him will be calm as well.


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## AuntBee (Apr 26, 2011)

Ben Franklin, I was afraid that would be the answer. Now I'm wishing my cute little TBH was not in the center of my yard in my favorite flowerbed.


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## Show-me (Aug 3, 2007)

Sounds like they could be cranky due to dearth. Not enough food source to keep them reproducing and busy and they are on the defensive.


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## Ben Franklin (May 3, 2011)

I agree that dearth could be the cause, it wasn't in my case as we have a flow going.
It could also be that they are just mean.


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## ken rice (Apr 28, 2010)

Get STARTED WITH 2TO1 FEEDING. aT SOME POINT YOU NEED TO GO IN AND CONFIRM YOU HAVE A QUEEN.Agressive behavior could stem from different things. Queenless hive,A robbing situation that happened,Predators such as skunks, And a lack of stores.Or just an outright bad gene pool.


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## WI-beek (Jul 14, 2009)

"they even come after me when I change the empty feeder jar for a new one"

There likely lies the problem. You are feeding with a jar feeder and are in a dearth. Your colony is getting robbed and they are very angrily defending there stores. Get rid of that jar feeder which is likely on of the dumbest inventions ever made in beekeeping history.


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

Very confusing advice IMO. 
1. She had a queen, killed it
2. She says she has a flow, so why feed? and why 2:1 this early. That's a late fall feed.
3. I use feed jars all the time... never been an issue and no robbing with them.


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## WI-beek (Jul 14, 2009)

"I use feed jars all the time... never been an issue and no robbing with them."

You must have one colony, entrance jar feeders are known most for robbing issues.


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## AuntBee (Apr 26, 2011)

Ken Rice, I just finished cooking up some 2:1. I'll put it on the hive tonight after it cools. I did have a productive queen, but we took her out and killed her today. We do have skunks around, but I haven't noticed their scent in our backyard near the hive. Our dog does a fair job of keeping predators away. I did see a garden snake near the hive once this summer, but I figured it was probably hunting mice, so I thought that was a good thing. We have lots of frogs and birds in the flower bed around the hive, but would they stir up the bees? I don't think they're being robbed, but how do you tell? They have some stored nectar, but they didn't have much at all until I started feeding them 10 days or so ago. Our dog does a fair job of keeping animals like raccoons away. We have a lot of squirrels. Would they be a problem?


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## AuntBee (Apr 26, 2011)

I have seen several bumblebees near the hive. Would they be robbing it?


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## brac (Sep 30, 2009)

Mean bees make more honey, I like that one, did you come up with it on your own? If not please point me to the study.


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## AuntBee (Apr 26, 2011)

Don't know if it makes a difference concerning feeder jars, but the hive is a TBH and the feeder jar is on the end farthest from the entrance holes. I did see a bee going in under the jar holder today. Until then I thought it was too tight for them to enter that way. I guess it's possible they could be getting robbed that way as well. Hmmmmm. I'll try to dob up that hole tomorrow.


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## brac (Sep 30, 2009)

Entrance feeders, are a bad idea. Maybe you should see about a top feeder?


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## AuntBee (Apr 26, 2011)

I'll check into that. I'm not sure that a top feeder will work with a TBH, but I could put the feed jar inside the hive.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

In theory, if meanness was only genetic, you would have to wait for the existing bees to all die off. In reality I've seen them calm down almost instantly, which brings the genetic theory into doubt, or at least makes it likely that there are multiple things involved that cause a hive to be "hot". It's possible that it will take a few weeks. It's possible they will calm down soon. I would have split them as that calms them down a lot instantly.


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## AuntBee (Apr 26, 2011)

I'll get the new queen in there tomorrow and then give them a few days. If that doesn't work, we'll split them. Thanks.


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## Ben Franklin (May 3, 2011)

Re: Mean Bees
*In theory, if meanness was only genetic, you would have to wait for the existing bees to all die off. In reality I've seen them calm down almost instantly, which brings the genetic theory into doubt, or at least makes it likely that there are multiple things involved that cause a hive to be "hot". It's possible that it will take a few weeks. It's possible they will calm down soon. I would have split them as that calms them down a lot instantly.
*

Mr. Bush:
I did make a nuc from this hive early in June. Maybe I should explain this is a new hive as of April 29th. 11, from a 3 pound package.
Before I split this hive it was over flowing with bees.
Then latter I made a nuc form it and have been takin brood from it since the nuc was made in late June. One of the reasons I made a Nuc from it was, the queen had laid eggs in the supper.
Another lesson learned,,or being taught, poor producers don't get better with time.

I only wish I could reproduce the bees from my rescued hive, but it was queenless. Even queenless it is still filling suppers. I requeened it with an Italian and lost her. Now I have another queen in there with the hive, maybe some of the drones mated with her.


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## SteveBee (Jul 15, 2010)

Let me describe Aunt Bee's feeder before we trash entrance feeders any more. Her TBH has a slot cut in the far end away from the entrance. The feeder bottom slides in securely (although she mentioned she has a small hole, which may be the problem) so no bees can get to it without first coming through the entrance and going the entire length of the hive (40") to get to the feed. So while it may be called an entrance feeder due to it's design, it is nowhere near the entrance. And from what I've read in the last year, I would think that 1:1 sugar water is good for this time of year. She'll increase the sugar to water ratio later in the fall.


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

WI-beek said:


> "I use feed jars all the time... never been an issue and no robbing with them."
> 
> You must have one colony, entrance jar feeders are known most for robbing issues.


Actually I have about 30


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## beepriddy (Jan 5, 2010)

AuntBee said:


> Okay. Will that help with their temperament?


Probably not, but 1:1 is spring build up feed and 2:1 is fall feed, it doesn't take as much work for them to dry it.


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## WI-beek (Jul 14, 2009)

"Actually I have about 30"

And you dont get robbing? Thats really hard to believe when in a dearth you can hardly keep a hive open for a few minutes without a cloud of bees developing around it. You dont read over and over the robbing problems associated with entrance feeders for no reason.

What kind of bees do you keep? If carnies you might not have the issues you would with Italians.

A lady bought bees from me last year and ignored my warning on entrance feeders. Her colony got robbed to death literally by bees kept near by. She did not reduce her entrance however, but you cant tell me sugar syrup at the front door had no part in its demise.

Good luck with yours.


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

I use feed jars through a hole in the migratory top. And, yes I have mostly Carni bees.


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## Cris (Mar 10, 2011)

I have carnies, a TBH and I used an entrance feeder all our long 'spring'. I had no robbing, probably because there weren't any other bees around (one of my reasons for getting a hobby hive) and probaby because the feeder itself acts like a reducer.
Quit slamming the entrance feeder people - for some purposes it's perfect. (Just not when you can't refill it every other day).


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## DRUR (May 24, 2009)

AuntBee said:


> My bees are furious. They attack every time I try to check my hive. Not just a few, but clouds of them swarming at me, following me a long way from the hive, and continuing to buzz and sting at me.


Summer dearth increases *defensiveness* as a colony must be more defensive to survive robbing from other bees. Also, you didn't mention smoking them. I had several *defensive* colonies I was feeding from a jar over the inner cover, covered with another box and top. Whenever I lifted the top they were all over me. I began smoking them to see if they would respond to smoke and they did.



AuntBee said:


> We have had a hot, dry summer, and two weeks ago they didn't have any honey stored so I started feeding 1:1 sugar:water. They are drinking about a quart a day. They seem to be bringing in plenty of pollen.


1:1 sugar: water is good for this time of year. It is hot dry summer and the bees need the extra moisture in the colony to evaporate for cooling purposes. Those that I have fed, that is the mixture I use here in East Texas and it has worked well for me.

Getting stung a few times during the dearth of summer is not a sign of an overly aggressive colony. Bees must be more *defensive* this time of year, otherwise they will get robbed to death especially if they are getting fed. Also, before I would be killing a productive queen during the dearth, I would have checked to see if they responded to smoke *[which should decrease their defensiveness*. However, what you can stand is in the eye of the beholder, or should I say the beekeeper. What is overly aggressive to one may not be to another. Also, aggressiveness has nothing to do with productive colony; however, my more *defensive* colonies handle the small hive beetles much better. 

Also, I consider a colony *aggressive* [as opposed to *defensive*] when they attack for no apparent reason. You have given them plenty of reason to attack you.

Danny


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

The smell of the skunk is enough for them to get their hackles up. Add that to the fall dearth you are in, and you will have some mean bees untill they get their feed. They will soon calm down a little. 
Bees change with the seasons. In the spring they are calm and gentle, the summer too busy to care. In the fall they can be like rabid creatures on steriods. Such is the way with bees...and the reason why we feed, reduce entrances, suit up, and use a smoker


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## SteveBee (Jul 15, 2010)

Aunt Bee is my sister and I went out to her house this past weekend to see her "mean bees". I have five hives and live within 20 miles, so our conditions are similar. We DID smoke the hive before opening it and waited a couple of minutes before opening it up. The hive is a top bar. I removed the first bar and they were a little defensive. By the time I pulled the third bar, they were VERY defensive. We were both in full gear, so we didn't get stung. We went ahead and found the queen (luckily she was near the end we started on) and verified there was capped brood. There was also honey/sugar water stored but not yet capped. I caught the queen and put her in a cage and took one sting on the hand. We had taken the comb around the other side of the house, and bees had followed us from the hive and were still mad. I can understand this since we had bees and the queen. We went back to the hive and closed it up. Fifteen minutes after the hive was closed, and 60 feet away, we were still being buzzed by mad bees. I had a spare queen at my house we were going to put in her hive, so at that point I pinched her queen. I then took a sting to the corner of my eye, Aunt Bee headed for the house and I jumped in my truck and went home! I would call the last part more aggressive than defensive. I thought she was doing something wrong until I went out and saw for myself. My bees are nothing like that. We'll see how the new queen works out.


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## Ron Mann (Jul 17, 2009)

Sorry you got popped in the eye.

Excellent story tho.

Reminds me of some of the "feral" bee stories that took place when I was a kid when we would cut down a hollow black locust full of them.

Us young'ens would get lit up by them and the ole man that knew what he was doing, would wade into them like they were gnats.

Never get stung.


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## DRUR (May 24, 2009)

Steve, one thing I didn't mention in my original post is that I also, had considered requeening those *defensive* colonies, but mine responded to smoke. Overly *aggressive* colonies should certainly be dealt with because of the risk of them being *Africanized*. 



SteveBee said:


> Fifteen minutes after the hive was closed, and 60 feet away, we were still being buzzed by mad bees.


I understand as *overly* defensive/aggressive is certainly in the eye of the beekeeper. I am treatment free and value my survivor genetics [especially from a productive colony] and probably tolerate more *defensive/aggressive* behavior as the result. Colonies being robbed or harvested [by animals or humans] are more reactive. Skunks will work a colony at night causing the bees to attack the next day in what may be thought by us as an unprovoked attack, but the bees might have a different view of that. So 15 minuntes later, 60 feet away [20 yards] would be understandable to me and I would not consider this *aggressive* but rather a continuation of their *defensive* response. Also, to me there is a difference in getting headbutted and an occassional sting or two [or 5-10] as opposed to an aggressive colony that will leave *several hundred stingers* in your clothes. I normally wear blue jeans and a light colored long sleeve shirt with hat, veil and gloves. My jeans always have several stingers.* [I would rather take my regular bee venom vaccinations through my pants on my legs than on my face :lpf:] *. But that being said, I have deveolped somewhat of a tolerance from their venom with little to no pain no swelling. Often I will find I have been stung several days later when I [or my wife] dig the stingers out of a little puss pocket. Certainly *defensive/aggressive* bees will be dealt with much quicker in close proximity of people on a regular basis, as opposed to the occassional contact in a remote location. I am sure you adequately dealt with the problem for your circumstances.

Kindest Regards
Danny


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## timbale (Aug 9, 2010)

I have been having the same problem.
My hive has been very easy to work with up until about 3 weeks ago. I noticed on the last visit that the guard bees were immediately checking out any bee that landed and seemed very agitated and nervous. Given that there are many other insects working the flowers around the hive, I am guessing that there was some robbing going on, or at least, some unwanted visitors.My suspicions were confirmed when I saw a dead bumble bee. a foot away from the entrance. I'm not sure there is anything that can be done to calm them down when they are on the defensive. I know smoke did not do it, so I will just have to be a little more observant and cautious on my next visit.


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## StevenG (Mar 27, 2009)

Two observations -
First, when you notice robbing, or suspect robbing, it's time to reduce the entrance.
Second, there are entrance feeders and there are entrance feeders... By that I mean, the entrance feeder designed for the top bar hive apparently functions different than the traditional Boardman feeder slid into the entrance of a typical Langstroth Hive. And i don't know that an entrance feeder put over the inner cover of a hive, with a hive body around it, counts as an entrance feeder any more. 

Folks who use the Boardman entrance feeder with a full-open entrance seem to be inviting trouble. Folks who use the Boardman entrance feeder with a reduced entrance seem to have less problems. And some Boardman feeders leak more than others, which causes problems. But generally speaking, there are much better ways to feed a colony, than a Boardman entrance board feeder.
Regards,
Steven


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## baldwinbees (Mar 2, 2010)

the hives I keep in my yard were very gentle,until 2 weeks ago.they turned vicious.2 of them.today I walked past the mean 1 not thinking&they were back to normal.guess they've got a flow going again


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## AuntBee (Apr 26, 2011)

Thanks to everyone for all the responses. I still have a LOT to learn!

The bees seemed to be somewhat calmer today, though we haven't been able to requeen yet. At least they let me water my flowerbed without acting like they wanted to kill me, but I had at least one hover around me every time I was outside in my front or back yard, which they have never done until the past few days. Last night, they buzzed me, but didn't sting, even though I waited until after dark to water.

I have lots of bumblebees, so I'll guess I'll try reducing the the entrance to 3 holes instead of the four I have had open. I have been thinking that it would be better ventilated with all four holes open. 

I blocked the just-barely-bee-sized hole near the feeder where I saw a bee enter the other day. I am nearly sure that bee was one of mine, as I had just replaced the empty jar with a full one and the bees that were on the empty one were trying to get back inside. Anyhoo...they have to go around to the entrance holes now.

There was a light scent of skunk in the air this morning, so maybe that is what is keeping them upset. I don't think a skunk could rob them due to the way the holes are placed, but the smell may be enough, as suggested by Honeyshack. It makes me a little crazy, too, for that matter. 

I have sent some photos to SteveBee. If he can get them to resize small enough to post, we'll get them on here so you can see how the feeder jar and entrance holes are situated.


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## AuntBee (Apr 26, 2011)

GOOD NEWS! Happy to report that today when I swapped the empty feed jar out the girls just ignored me! YES! FINALLY!!!! I even watered the entire yard without a single threatening visitor. It's been about a week since we requeened.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Tell tale signs of skunks are little piles of dead soggy bees. Sometimes scratches on the front of the hive as well.


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## baldwinbees (Mar 2, 2010)

a week with a new queen ?the bees from the old queen still have a few more weeks to live.maybe it wasn't the queen


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

I'm a newbie, but feeding my bees, and adding the yard feeder to pull off the robbers has definitely sweetened their temperament. I'm not wearing a suit just to go out and mess with a feeder, observe, or mess with the pond nearby, and I'm not being stung. Given the high temps that is a relief.


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## Ben Franklin (May 3, 2011)

SteveBee said:


> Aunt Bee is my sister and I went out to her house this past weekend to see her "mean bees". I have five hives and live within 20 miles, so our conditions are similar. We DID smoke the hive before opening it and waited a couple of minutes before opening it up. The hive is a top bar. I removed the first bar and they were a little defensive. By the time I pulled the third bar, they were VERY defensive. We were both in full gear, so we didn't get stung. We went ahead and found the queen (luckily she was near the end we started on) and verified there was capped brood. There was also honey/sugar water stored but not yet capped. I caught the queen and put her in a cage and took one sting on the hand. We had taken the comb around the other side of the house, and bees had followed us from the hive and were still mad. I can understand this since we had bees and the queen. We went back to the hive and closed it up. Fifteen minutes after the hive was closed, and 60 feet away, we were still being buzzed by mad bees. I had a spare queen at my house we were going to put in her hive, so at that point I pinched her queen. I then took a sting to the corner of my eye, Aunt Bee headed for the house and I jumped in my truck and went home! I would call the last part more aggressive than defensive. I thought she was doing something wrong until I went out and saw for myself. My bees are nothing like that. We'll see how the new queen works out.


I may have asked before but what race are these bees?
Just wondering.


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