# Beginner Question: The Yearly Cost of Beekeeping?



## MaydayMalone (Jan 19, 2012)

Per hive;

Feeding in Spring and Fall = ~$15.00/25lbs sugar
MAQS strips (10 applications per package, 2 applications per year, per hive, $47 pkg) = ~$10.00
Replacing 1/3 foundation (based on 3 med honey supers) = ~$15.00
Fumigilin-B = ~$20.00
Wintering patties (box of 10, $20, 2 patties per hive) = ~$4.00

I know that I am probably missing a few things that others may use. If you budget about $100/hive, you should be ok.


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## Solomon Parker (Dec 21, 2002)

2012 numbers for my hives averaged to the total number of hives at the end of the year:

No treatments.
Fresh frames (may be just foundation or all new) -~$20 per hive average
Some fed sugar in early winter: -~$2 per hive average
Some produce honey: +~$40 per hive average
Some make nucs: +~$40 per hive average
Some queens sold: +~$6 per hive average

These numbers are for 2012, a year of increase. This year, if it has the same conditions, will be much better as more nucs, queens, and honey can be sold rather than kept.

With all due respect, if you're spending money to keep bees after more than a couple years, you're doing it wrong. Feeding and treatments (both things no hive should need) are going to eat your money if your main concern is dying bees. There is no need to feed in the spring whatsoever. If you're not stealing too much honey, there should be no need to feed in the fall either.

As for treatments, I'm not going to tell you how to keep your bees, but I will give you the numbers. According to the Bee Informed national survey, no treatment increases survivability by more than 10%. A major portion don't do much at all, especially so-called soft-treatments. Some treatments and methods actually increase mortality. It's time for hobbyist beekeepers to move away from treatments. They make you dependent on chemical companies to prop up weak bees and upon commercial beekeepers to provide more bees when the last ones died.


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## beeman2009 (Aug 23, 2012)

Solomon basically nailed it. If ALL BEEKEEPERS don't wake up, the only ones making a living with bees will be the chemical companies & supply houses that sell the stuff. Personally I want to keep my hard earned money.


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## gone2seed (Sep 18, 2011)

2012 numbers 

Hopguard fall treatment ..............................$6.00
Grease/essential oil spring treatment................$2.00?
Frame/foundation rotation..............................$5.00
Fall feeding to top off....................................$5.00 
Boxes,tops and inner covers last almost forever
Bottoms need to be replaced occasionally
I occasionally purchase queens in order to broaden my genetic base but this isn't necessary.
Once you have made the initial investment in wooden ware the cost to keep bees is very low.
My figures do not include the cost of honey house ,extracting equiptment etc.Those can run from zero to whatever you wish to spend.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Do you mean this survey?
http://beeinformed.org/2012/03/national-management-survey-varroa-control/

"beekeepers who reported treating for varroa mites lost 20 % fewer colonies than those who did not report such use."

In my experience ,untreated colonies die from varroa,regardless of what strain of bees they are.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

It would be cheaper if you keep them in your apartment over the winter so you dont have to spend fuel on feeding them. You can just go into the living room with a jar of syrup.


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## Imperial (Mar 1, 2013)

bmac said:


> it would be cheaper if you keep them in your apartment over the winter so you dont have to spend fuel on feeding them. You can just go into the living room with a jar of syrup.


lol


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## Imperial (Mar 1, 2013)

loggermike said:


> Do you mean this survey?
> http://beeinformed.org/2012/03/national-management-survey-varroa-control/
> 
> "beekeepers who reported treating for varroa mites lost 20 % fewer colonies than those who did not report such use."
> ...


Which insect eats varroa mites?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Varroa treatments = $0
Tracheal mite treatments = $0
Fumigilin-B = $0
Terramycin = $0
Foundation = $0
Feeding in Spring and Fall = $0
Pollen substitute patties = $0
Total costs per hive other than the original cost of equipment in a typical year = $0


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## Imperial (Mar 1, 2013)

Michael Bush said:


> Varroa treatments = $0
> Tracheal mite treatments = $0
> Fumigilin-B = $0
> Terramycin = $0
> ...


Wow, why so low? Also, what about winter feeding?


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

I think you will find the people who make their living from beekeeping will have significantly more inputs than those who dont.


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## Wisnewbee (Apr 8, 2011)

Imperial, I suggest you go to Michael Bush' website and start reading. There's enough information there to keep you busy for days or weeks. Michael Bush is a well known and respected member of the beekeeping community and advocates for survivor stock bees and treatment free beekeeping.

Wisnewbee


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Mike is correct. You will also see different takes on beekeeping depending upon what part of the world you live in as well. For example you have to deal more with moths, SHB then beekeepers in the north. Beekeepers in the north have to deal with keeping colonies warm on extreme winter weather and nosema more than those in the south.

You might want to join a local club and get the locals take on some of these types of questions, less you are ready to jump into migratory beekeeping.


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## Solomon Parker (Dec 21, 2002)

37%-29%=8% which is less than the generous 10% I mentioned. Percents depend upon which number is used as the denominator. I was speaking in the comparative sense since that's what we're doing, comparing.

Properly managed hives should almost never need fed. If a hive cannot gather enough honey to survive the winter, why keep it around? Same with mites and diseases.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Isn't this the commercial forum? Seems like a lot of input here from non commercials. If you are making a living at this speak up , if not well..........


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## Wisnewbee (Apr 8, 2011)

Costs will vary as to the type of operation you are doing. A hobbiest is going to have different costs then a commercial migratory beekeeper. Such as transportation. If you're looking for the hobby cost I suggest asking in the Bee Forum. This forum is designed to be about Commercial aspects of the Industry. Most commercial guys do things "differently" then a hobby guy. Their income depends on making a profit. As my mentor told me, "learn about the bees first". 

Note that nobody has really told you the real expenses. 

Transportation- trucking to different parts of the country, north south movement and east west movement.
Fuel- trucks don't run without it
Vehicle repairs
medications and treatments- All large scale operations treat or their bees die
labor- owner and hired help
insurance- business, health, vehicle, liability
overhead- buildings, heat, electricity, water
material handling- forklifts and trailers
equipment- new and replacement, figure on replacing boxes and pallets every 7 years and frames every 3.

As you can see it's the basic financial needs of every business out there. Actual costs vary as to the business location and business model, and of course management of the operation.

No one can give you exact numbers because they are different for each business. And of course, these are confidential internal numbers only the owners and accountants know. How you control your expesnses is the secret to any successful business.

Wisnewbee


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## Wisnewbee (Apr 8, 2011)

"Isn't this the commercial forum? Seems like a lot of input here from non commercials. If you are making a living at this speak up , if not well.......... "

I agree


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Hey it isn't that others can't contribute something it's just that I assume the op posted here because he wants a commercial perspective on expenses and I'm reading some stuff that dosent seem to have the perspective of someone who is actually requiring his hives to make a profit


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## Imperial (Mar 1, 2013)

Hi guys, 

I am going to start with a few hives just to begin so I can get some more hands on experience with but I am asking these questions because I have the medium term goal of getting involved in commercial beekeeping both in a migratory and static business and would like to ascertain the costs that commercial beekeepers incur so that I can factor them into my future potential costings to gauge the profitability of any venture. 

You've all been very helpful and it's great hearing the differing views on the issue. As a newbee I'm greatly appreciative that you're sharing your experience and expertise with me, even when I ask dumb questions. Keep the great answers coming.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

In a drought year, feed will be a BIG expense. When Mother nature doesn't provide, its up to the beekeeper to do it. And with no honey crop to sell to pay for it, credit then becomes an issue.


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## soupcan (Jan 2, 2005)

Good points by the 3 of ya!
Very smart & well put in perspective!


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## Solomon Parker (Dec 21, 2002)

Newbee wanting to get into commercial beekeeping. Where have I heard that before?

This guy!

Didn't work out.


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## Imperial (Mar 1, 2013)

Solomon Parker said:


> Newbee wanting to get into commercial beekeeping. Where have I heard that before?
> 
> This guy!
> 
> Didn't work out.


I don't mind starting off doing it as a hobby until I've learnt all the ropes but eventually I would like to get into commercial beekeeping.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

You are in a great location to learn commercial beekeeping, but you will be further ahead to go and find the commercial guys on Oranges and ask to work for them so you can get a real deal feel for what they do and when they do it and why they are doing it.

Then price around a bit on what you need to make it all happen. Keep in mind healthy colonies need attention and your first goal is to keep bees healthy winter after winter. You will find yourself answering these questions better than we can answer them. Truly for commercial guys the annual cost of doing business greatly varies on size of operation, whether its a migratory operation, and how many miles per year the bees log on the road, not to mention what kind of season the individual beekeeper is experiencing in their local area (ie what local forage is available). Also shipping costs grow every year. Then there is hired help, taxes and keeping the better half happy. All included.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Then I would strongly suggest at some point you go to work for a commercial beekeeper for a short while before you jump into it. Priceless!

[edit] BMAC beat me by two minutes!


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## Imperial (Mar 1, 2013)

Thanks guys, that's exactly what I want to do here in Florida. We have beepeeker's meeting coming up on Sunday and if I'm lucky enough I might meet a commercial beekeeper that might take me under their wing and mentor me. I have purposely not purchased any beekeeping equipment for this very reason because I don't want to waste money on unnecessary equipment (which I might find at better prices with advice) and I am also quite big on learning everything I can so I don't unnecessarily kill bees due to my own lack of knowledge.


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## Wisnewbee (Apr 8, 2011)

It helps if you start young and have a strong back! lol:thumbsup:

Wisnewbee


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Wow, why so low? Also, what about winter feeding? 

You can't feed in the winter here in the North. The syrup is too cold and they can't take it. If you warm it up so they can, then they die from the condensation. I leave them honey for winter, unless it's a very unusual year and there just isn't enough food, then I feed them. But that is not a typical year.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfeeding.htm


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

No treatment costs, except powdered sugar. One 50# bag per year
No hive maintenance costs in last 5 years.
Normally only feed when starting a new hive. There are exceptions.
I'd have to guess about $5 per hive.

Income from hive.
2 nucs $200
honey $100 average
Pleasure of working the bees priceless.

I sink a lot of money in beekeeping but it all comes back within a couple years.


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

I guess some guys do not really understand what you are saying Jim L. That being said I believe that Dr Eric Mussen ran a survey in 2010 and had the cost pegged around $200 per year for the guys who bring bees to almond polliation. Some were a little less, some were a little more. Prices since then have increased. I did not fill out that survey but I am pretty sure that this includes all costs associated with owning hives. This would include tings like vehicle insuraance and maintenance, salaries, feed, medications, probably depreciation of equipment but I am not sure. I am however sure that keeping bees is not cheap especially if you encounter a difficult season such as drought. If you are paying attention then you can recognize the situation, dig in your pocket and bring some groceries to your bees to maintain them in relatively good shape.If you do not then usually there is crying about this or that after you have experienced higher than normal losses. Most starting out cannot handle higher than normal losses.

I personally find it amazing how much money I end up spending on bees every year. I would not believe it if you would have told me that before I started, yet I have the bills to prove it. In our area we have had diminshing honey crops in the last 7 years to the point where last year I did not extract. Most of my business is pollination and selling bees, but I still need some honey income if only for the fact that bees are in better shape and I spend less time and money on them.

Jean-Marc


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## chillardbee (May 26, 2005)

I've worked for you before Jean-marc (it's Will G. here) and have often wondered how you do it. Back in those days it seemed you had to be a better people manager then a beekeeper and the stress that came along with it. I think the main reason that i'll never get to that 2000+ operation is because i wouldn't be able to handle that kind of stress nor do I really want to ( i know my limitations) and my hat is off to you and all the other beeks who do.

I'm stepping back from pollination and going back into honey production after losing most of my hives in 2012. it will be a long road to get back up to the 200 hives. there's still a lot of initial investment to make and hopefully I can keep my op-cost down to good levels, make the right choices, and not skimp on the really important things. So far I see my yearly expences being 55.00/hive but thats because i don't pay laborers (i should say I don't have any laborers and I run a one man show here) or have massive gas bills for trucking bees across the country side.


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## Imperial (Mar 1, 2013)

How did you lose most of your hives Chillardbee?


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

How do you subscribe to a thread without commenting or posting?
I don't want to miss this one.


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## Imperial (Mar 1, 2013)

Mbeck said:


> How do you subscribe to a thread without commenting or posting?
> I don't want to miss this one.


There's a drop down thread that says thread tools. I think you can choose it in there. Though having said that, as you've responded you'll probably be subscribed!


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## chillardbee (May 26, 2005)

Imperial said:


> How did you lose most of your hives Chillardbee?


 Not intirely sure. I used a EO treatment thyat was supposed to be a natural way of controling mites. either it didn't work or it was to harsh for the bees. I think in the end that it was the mites that did them in and that the treatment (which was all that I used in the fall of 2011) did not work. I remeber that in mid july I had over a 100 hives with good populations filling up thier thirds with honey and by mid september they were only 4-5 frames of bees, devistatingly obvious that they were not going to survive the winter. last fall I used apivar and only had a 5% loss and the bees are very healthy.So, in short,my bees payed the price for my brain fart.


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Actually Will I flexed my apicultural muscle and stretched them out to a little over 3000 last fall. I have a few nucs lately and we should run about 2500 or so come second pollination here. That's one way I end spending awhole bunch of money on bees. It seems to come back, but there is not a lot of margin so keep away from critical errors.

As you know Will I used to spend all my money on women and whisky. The rest I would waste. Now I have bees with some hope of return.

Jean-Marc


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

loggermike said:


> I think you will find the people who make their living from beekeeping will have significantly more inputs than those who dont.


ha ha ha,


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## Imperial (Mar 1, 2013)

chillardbee said:


> Not intirely sure. I used a EO treatment thyat was supposed to be a natural way of controling mites. either it didn't work or it was to harsh for the bees. I think in the end that it was the mites that did them in and that the treatment (which was all that I used in the fall of 2011) did not work. I remeber that in mid july I had over a 100 hives with good populations filling up thier thirds with honey and by mid september they were only 4-5 frames of bees, devistatingly obvious that they were not going to survive the winter. last fall I used apivar and only had a 5% loss and the bees are very healthy.So, in short,my bees payed the price for my brain fart.


I'm very sorry to hear that Will. That's quite a big loss both financially and of course sentimentally.


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