# water/vinegar instead of smoke



## space bee (Jan 16, 2006)

I tried biobee's approach of misting a water and vinegar mix instead of smoke and haven't had any problems. I like the ease of just using a spray mister instead of having to keep the smoker going. Not one sting this season so far. There are a lot of bees in the air during a full inspection, but they don't seem frantic, and are certainly not aggressive. When the buzz gets to be pretty loud, I spray a bit into the air above the hive as well, and it audibly quiets them down.
I have Carniolans that are kept in top bar hives. 

I have also started to add some flower essences to this mix as an experiment: Purification to help them get rid of mites, and Guardian to keep all sorts of pest away. Both are available through Alaska Flower Essences. We'll see how it goes.


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## papa bear (Nov 1, 2005)

space bee i just read an old article about langstroth using this method before the smoker was invented. i was wondering if it was a good substitute


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

I wonder about the effect of repeated exposure of the exoskeletan and or eyes to acid (albeit diluted and mild in nature)? It would be nice to have a safe, effective method for those quick inspections when no smoker fuel is at hand, like when you go to grab some unused equipment and decide somone needs a look.


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## dochom (Mar 19, 2007)

I would like to try the water and vinegar instead of smoke, What proportions are you using?


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## knadai (Jun 24, 2007)

I use smoke before opening because I feel I have to. Then I use a sugar/water mixture. Not sure if it calms them down by weighing them down or just distracts them into sucking it all up or both.


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## ScadsOBees (Oct 2, 2003)

My guess is that the smell of the vinegar actually overwhelms the alarm smell that the bees put out when you invade their space. Mint will work too. There is anecdotal evidence that vinegar will help with chalkbrood and some claims against mites.

Rick


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

I just joined a queenright hive to the top of a queenless hive today. I removed one frame to give me space, then sprayed down between all frames with vinegar water so most of the bees got hit with the spray. I did this to each box and joined. No visible fighting and good activity on the front board this evening. I used a capfull of apple cider vinegar to a quart of water in a trigger spray bottle.


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

*Misters*

This time of year in Calif there is quite a fire hazard. Sometimes I put some Liquid Smoke ( BBQ aisle ) in the water. Works OK.


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

I wouldn't worry too much about repeated exoskeleton exposure. Bees don't live long enough unless you're in there every day spraying them down.


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## BWrangler (Aug 14, 2002)

Hi Guys,

I've got to give this a try as well, maybe even in a commercial setting.

I've tried a weak sugar solution. Works well for the bees. But it's a mess for the beekeeper and the mixture eventually ferments.

Thanks

Thinking Kombucha is alot like vinegar. And I've been looking for a way to get some probiotics into a hive.


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

Vinegar water might be much better than sugar water when it's a nectar dearth.


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## buckbee (Dec 2, 2004)

I used the vinegar/water spray at Buckfast Abbey when I worked there, and found that I could inspect colonies much faster that the other beek using smoke - it kept bees out of the way better and I never had to stop to re-light anything. 

I also smelled better at the end of the day.


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## France (Apr 5, 2007)

I dismantled my smoker years ago, so that I can not use it even if I wanted too. I simply don't use nothing and I have no problems at all. 
Got stung only once two years ago when pressed a bee against my chest. 
The way I see it - smoke does them no good... Sort of same if my house was on fire and I was forced to grab as much as I can and run... How do you people think that would make me feel?


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## Bizzybee (Jan 29, 2006)

Some folks contend that certain materials used for smoking cause mites to drop and use it as a two-fold approach when entering hives.

The use of vinegar in water may have the same affect but I don't know that I've heard that and I've never used it? I could see where the solution would have a masking quality. 

I myself haven't lit a smoker at all this year and hardly did last year. I do put on a jacket because I am prone to bumping and banging, zigging when I should have zagged and found myself more than once on the receiving end of a group of angry bees when I made a mistake. Taking two dozen stings in a setting doesn't bother me in large part, but if I don't have to, I prefer not.

I keep a garden sprayer loaded all the time with a mixture just under 1 to 1 with some kind of mint and lemongrass in it. I don't use it to calm hives because I don't need to, but it will shut them down if needed. I do use it for combining hives or requeening. It's useful when adding frames of bees to weak hives.

Bwrangler, I added the EO's to the mixture using a blender with water and lecithin to emulsify the oils so they will mix and not seperate from the syrup. I added them to prevent fermenting which it does very well. I later found the use of it to be helpful in what I've already mentioned. I know that some mints will kill mites on contact. But I question whether it's effective at such a low concentration. But since I don't see mites as a rule of thumb it's of little consequence to me.

From what I see being said about the vinegar and even liquid smoke apparently, along with my own experience. It would seem that masking scents can be useful in more than one way. Which might be best, I wouldn't care to guess. But for now, I'm content with what I have. Beside the fact that I hate the smell of vinegar.

Oh and France, I don't want to get you all riled up with smoke! Just don't pull out that big stinger of yours!!


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## NashBeek (Feb 15, 2008)

This sounds interesting, but does this attract SHB to the hive or are you using a different vinegar from the apple cider vinegar used in traps to catch the little buggers.:scratch:


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