# Imitation Honey sold in Ohio



## alpha6

Survey saysssss.....YES!


----------



## FindlayBee

Ok, my container description is a bit off. My fault for trying to remember something I looked at around 3:00AM. Anyway, the contents of the container is still correct.

This is a really bad photo of the product. However, I did buy a bottle of the product for records and proof of sale. After my daughter goes to bed, I will post more information.









Took this really fast last night with my cell phone. Looks like some type of diabetic imitation honey.


----------



## tonyp

We have the same thing down here too. The word honey is twice as large as the word imitation. How would you get something like this off the shelves?


----------



## tonyp

The one I seen down here had a different label I think.


----------



## FindlayBee

I have already sent a message to the Ohio Department of Agriculture. Will see what I get from them.


----------



## Eaglerock

FindlayBee said:


> Hello,
> 
> Found a store in Ohio selling "Imitation Honey" next to what is marked "Pure Honey". My question is, is this store in violation of the following Ohio law?


It isn't claiming to be honey, therefore it doen't fall under those guidelines. But that would be depending on what "B" is meaning.


----------



## 11x

i belive i seen that at walmart down here in logan ohio


----------



## 11x

must just be a local thing, jere is theweb results http://www.walmart.com/search/searc..._0&tc=0&tab_value=643_All&ref=+418721.g418721


----------



## beekeeper_sd

Not just a local thing. I found it in WALMART in TX and South Dakota. Thanks WalMart!!!!


----------



## FindlayBee

From Webster.com

"Main Entry: sem·blance 
Pronunciation: \ˈsem-blən(t)s\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French, from sembler to be like, seem — more at resemble
Date: 14th century
1 a : outward and often specious appearance or show : form <wrapped in a semblance of composure — Harry Hervey> b : modicum <has been struggling to get some semblance of justice for his people — Bayard Rustin>
2 : aspect, countenance
3 a : a phantasmal form : apparition b : image, likeness
4 : actual or apparent resemblance <her story bears some semblance to the truth>"


3715.38 Prohibitions regarding honey.

No person shall sell, offer, or expose for sale any product that is:
[sic]

(B) In the semblance of honey and contains a label that applies the word “imitation” to the product, regardless of whether it contains any honey;

[sic]

We have a product that looks like honey but is not and the label has applied to it "imitation" and the word "honey". It comes in a container that one would commonly find pure honey, shows a bee like image in the embossed plastic, and has a flower in full bloom on the label.

From what I get from this law is "You cannot sell, offer, or expose for sale "imitation honey". Since it contains the word "honey" in the label and the word "imitation" it is in violation.


----------



## FindlayBee

I will see if I can get a photo of the shelf layout next time I am in Walmart. I know I cannot get away with a regular digital camera, but I can use my horrid cell phone camera.


----------



## FindlayBee

Please note, I could be reading this all wrong and it is ok.

I know some States allow this in their laws. Such as West Virginia:

"§19-2D-2. Labeling. 
(a) No person shall manufacture, package, label, sell, keep for sale, expose or offer for sale, any article or product represented to be honey or to contain honey unless the product ingredient is honey, as defined in this article.

(b) No person shall sell, expose or offer for sale any product, compound or mixture of sugars labeled as or for honey, with or without honey as a constituent ingredient, unless the product, compound or mixture of sugars is labeled "imitation honey" with the word "imitation" appearing in letters equal in size to the letters used to spell "honey.""

However, Texas:

"§ 131.083. SALE OF IMITATION HONEY. A person may not 
label, sell, or keep, expose, or offer for sale a product that 
resembles honey and is identified on its label as "imitation 
honey."

Added by Acts 1983, 68th Leg., p. 1884, ch. 350, § 1, eff. Sept. 
1, 1983."


----------



## wolfpenfarm

I wonder what its ingredients are. I know i have tried aguave nectar which imo is nothing but honey since it is the nectar from that aguave plant. 
I'm diabetic so i have to watch my sugar intake. I know that honey doesn't send my sugars as high as syrup or sugar but it does raise it if i am not careful in how much i use. 
THe Aguave nectar raised my BS high as heck for some reason i have no idea why. 
I have decided to stick with honey as a substitute for refined sugars, and i also use stevia as a sweetener. I can mix the stevia and honey both which will help control my BS. The honey can add a better flavor to the stevia.


----------



## FindlayBee

Maltitol syrup, natural and artificial flavor, acesulfame k, malic acid.


----------



## The Honey Householder

Looks to me Honey Tree sells more then just honey.:doh:
I say it looks like the Meijer display.


----------



## Sprig

This is not local! I found the same stuff in a Meijers store in Ludington MI last weekend!


----------



## FindlayBee

This came from Walmart.

This product is probably great for someone who cannot consume real pure honey. However, when I was doing research on beekeeping before I jumped in and ordered bees, I came across the Ohio law. I was shocked to see this stuff last night on the shelf at Walmart. It is made in the USA in MI, but I cannot for the life of me figure out how it gets onto the shelf with this law in place.

"Ohio prohibits the sale of any product labeled, advertised, or otherwise represented to be honey if it is not honey; any product that looks like honey labeled with the word “imitation” whether or not it contains any honey; and any product that is a blend of honey and other ingredients that contains a label with the word “honey,” or any picture, drawing, or other representation implying honey, when such word, picture, drawing, or representation is more prominently displayed than the word “blend” or other word clearly implying the existence of other ingredients. When enforced, this law protects local honey producers from imitation products that hurt sales of pure honey and ensures that consumers who want to consume only pure honey or avoid honey entirely can do so. In Ohio, licensed apiaries sold 1.4 million pounds of honey in 2002.10"

The above is from: http://www.uspirg.org/html/foodsafety/Ohio.pdf


----------



## Beeslave

I would say it is in violation of the law. Besides the bottle, the word-imitation-blends with the background color. They also use HoneyTree's with the letters larger than the word imitation.


----------



## magnet-man

Well doesn't flavored honey sticks fall into the prohibited category too?


----------



## indypartridge

Chain stores that operate in many states often aren't aware (or don't bother to care) about specific laws such as the one you cited. Consider printing out the relevant section of the the Ohio Code; taking it, along with a bottle of the imitation honey from the shelf to the store manager and simply point out that the product is in violation of Ohio law. 

"Mr. Manager, with over a million items on the shelves, you may not be aware that this product is labeled in violation of Ohio law. While it may be perfectly legal for X-Mart to carry this product in other states, it's illegal here..."

Store managers usually have a good bit of discretion on the items they carry, as they try to cater to the local populace.


----------



## Beeslave

Federal law supercedes all state laws, therefore this product is not illegal to sell as it is labeled and bottled. Even though this product is directly illegal for sale in the law below the federal law says it is not so it is ok to sell.

Texas:

"§ 131.083. SALE OF IMITATION HONEY. A person may not 
label, sell, or keep, expose, or offer for sale a product that 
resembles honey and is identified on its label as "imitation 
honey."


----------



## FindlayBee

State laws can be more restrictive than Federal laws but cannot be less restrictive than the Federal law. At least that is my understanding.

The product is labeled correctly for sale in States that allow the sale of Imitation Honey.


----------



## Beeslave

I spoke with one the people involved in marketing. They told me federal law trumps state law so what they are doing is not illegal. It is marketed for diabetics that want honey but can't because of sugar.

http://www.honeytreehoney.com/specialty-sugarfree.html

Call them
1-800-968-1889


----------



## JIm in Annville

For any other Diabetics. I have tried this imitation honey. It runs my numbers up as bad if not worse than actual honey does. I eat honey daily and my numbers are not affected as long as I don't go crazy with it. LOL Sometimes that happens.


----------



## FindlayBee

I should have an answer later today on whether or not this can be sold. Got a response back from the ODA wanting more information.

I could be wrong and that is why I am asking.


----------



## Beeslave

Findlay,
What was your findings?


----------



## FindlayBee

It has been moved up the food chain so to speak. Sent them a bit more information about the product. Currently from what I have received in email it is 50/50 either way.


----------



## Brenda

For those that have tried it, does it say what the ingredients are?


----------



## FindlayBee

From back of packaging:

Maltitol syrup, natural and artificial flavor, acesulfame k, malic acid.

I am also still waiting on a response from the State.


----------



## Brenda

Thanks. I looked up Maltitol syrup, and it doesn't look like it's very good for you.


----------



## wolfpenfarm

Its made from cornstarch.


----------



## indypartridge

I've seen "imitation honey" made with sorbitol, which is only slightly different chemically than maltitol.


----------



## jhs494

Hopefully Ohio will follow California and change the law requiring products that are labeled as honey must be produced by honeybees, and cannot be adulterated in the process.


----------



## FindlayBee

Ohio does:

3715.01(A)(12)
(12) “Honey” means the nectar and saccharine exudation of plants that has been gathered, modified, and stored in a honeycomb by honeybees.


----------



## jhs494

Do you know if California has just tightened there law to spell out what honey is? 

I thought California's changes would pave the way and make tighter restrictions only allowing actual honey to be labeled as such, and everything else fell under honeydew honey.

My question would be should Ohio make a clearer definition of what honey is to make it a crime to allow products, that have been shown here, to be labeled as "Honey".

What can I do, or in your opinion, who can I write to to help show that this area needs addressed.

There was a talk about this very subject at the OSBA fall meeting and unfortunately I came out not knowing how to help.


Thanks for any advice!


----------



## John Smith

According to Dr. Ron Fessenden in his Book, The Honey Revolution, real honey is the preferred sweetener for persons with Type II Diabetes. We had a witness just recently of a diabetic visitor who monitored his sugars daily, and was eating the free honey quite generously. His sugars got very low, actually!

On the other hand, most of these artificially contrived sweeteners cause the blood sugars to spike out. Even the Agave one (which is 90% Fructose) is under suspicion. Honey seems to be THE BEST, with all of the alternatives rising and falling in various ways. Even the condensed fruit juice type syrups don't measure up to honey apparently.

I can see someone mistaking these blends, imitations and look-alikes for real honey and doing themselves some real harm. Maybe a few lawsuits will bring the matter to a head.

We have a dried honey product on the shelf here in Australia. It has an ingredients list on it! If it needs an ingredients list on it, it is not honey! The list reads thus: Maltodextrin, 100% Australian Honey. That's it. That's the ingredients. In technical terms, that means the first ingredient represents the highest percentage of the two. So it could well be 98% maltodextrin with 2% honey (100% Australian, of course!). Maltodextrin is a form of glucose manufactured from wheat starch. It dries quite successfully. Honey can not be powdered very successfully, as it immediately starts pulling in moisture from the air and goes all sticky.

Another product here is labeled Jellied Honey. Above the word honey it reads, in large white letters on black background, 100% Australian. But the ingredients are sugar, honey, pectin. The word 'Jellied' is in a dark patch of colour and one needs to hold it up in the light to actually read it.

Legislators? Food Police? Law Enforcement Officers? They are all too fat and lazy to care! Oh, yes, they will look into it. They will open a file on it! They will refer it to their supervisor! The will play political football with it! And in the final wash-up they will enact some more laws that make the vending of honey at the farm gate so complex as to be illegal. 

Was it ever any different?


----------



## garprob

I just happened acoss a product the other day in a palstic bottle shaped like a bear labled "Honey Spread". It contained 3 ingredients. The first was corn syrup, the second was honey, I don't remember the third.


----------



## FindlayBee

Products can contain a blend of honey. However, they cannot have the word Honey listed in larger lettering than the other items in the blend. This is my understanding.

I may have hit a brick wall in regards to the status of the "Imitation Honey" being sold in Ohio. I have not gotten a response back other than a reply to my asking if there is any updates on the status. The reply was "No". So at this time, I have no final answer.


----------



## FindlayBee

I got an update yesterday. However, I cannot comment further.


I found this being sold at a Dollar Store:


----------



## Eaglerock

FindlayBee said:


> I got an update yesterday. However, I cannot comment further.
> 
> 
> I found this being sold at a Dollar Store:
> [/IMG]


One... that is what it is worth, a dollar and that's why it is being sold there.... I am sure no one was having any luck at selling that crapola, and second... why would you tell us there is an update and then say you can tell us. That is like letting a dog sniff a bone and then not letting him have it. Don't do that.... we have bees you know! lol


----------



## FindlayBee

It is under investigation by FDA.


----------



## Kingfisher Apiaries

We have it here.


----------



## Kingfisher Apiaries

FindlayBee said:


> I got an update yesterday. However, I cannot comment further.
> 
> 
> I found this being sold at a Dollar Store:


That is SO gross. Junior Bear, mmmmm. Took my appetite away.


----------



## FindlayBee

This article has a good bit of information on why standards should be introduced for honey and a bit about labeling law. Basically, just because the label meets federal guidelines does not mean the product can be legally sold in a State.

http://www.americanhoneyproducers.org/standards/Nancy Gentry Speech 1-8-2009 Fresno.pdf

What brought my attention to the imitation honey on the shelf at walmart is simply this Ohio law:

*3715.38 Prohibitions regarding honey.
No person shall sell, offer, or expose for sale any product that is:

(A) In the semblance of honey and labeled, advertised, or otherwise represented to be honey if it is not honey;

(B) In the semblance of honey and contains a label that applies the word “imitation” to the product, regardless of whether it contains any honey;

(C) In the semblance of honey and is a blend of honey and other ingredients that contains a label with the word “honey,” or any picture, drawing, or other representation implying honey, when such word, picture, drawing, or representation is more prominently displayed than the word “blend” or other word clearly implying the existence of other ingredients.

Effective Date: 10-31-1975*

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/3715.38

Even if this "imitation honey" or "honey syrup" passes FDA labeling laws, it still cannot be sold in the State of Ohio.

Why?

1. It is not honey, but label says "Honey" and each product is in either a honey bear or container with a bee on it. This suggests that it is Honey.

2. The word "Imitation" is on the label.

3. It is being marketed in the semblance to honey by the color of the syrup, type of container used, and pictures on the product.


Now the "honey syrup" contains 10% honey. If am understanding things correctly, this product is legal to sell only if it is not sold in the semblance of honey. Meaning, a different container is used and the color is changed to something other than honey colored.

The "imitation honey" could be sold if it drops the word "honey" from the label and looses the embossed bee on the container. It could just then be sold as "artificial sweetener great for diabetics" or something like that.

Ohio does have a definition of honey:
*3715.01 Pure food and drug law definitions.

(12) “Honey” means the nectar and saccharine exudation of plants that has been gathered, modified, and stored in a honeycomb by honeybees.*

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/3715.01


----------



## Durandal

FindlayBee said:


> I got an update yesterday. However, I cannot comment further.


Huh?


----------



## irwin harlton

we got a lot of cleaning up to do

http://www.bee-quick.com/wall/shame2.html


----------



## FindlayBee

Well, not sure what the actual status of this is right now, but Walmart's website now lists the "Imitation Honey" as "MALTITOL SYRUP, NATURAL AND ARTIFICIAL FLAVOR, ACESULFAME K, MALIC ACID." and I have seen only 2 bottles in the local stores. I also do not see it listed for sale online for the stores around my area 45840.

I use to be able to look up "imitation honey" on walmart.com. When I do so now, it no longer shows up.


----------



## FindlayBee

Well, since I last posted one of the local Walmart's restocked.


----------



## arnaud

Apparently this is sold at a neighboring Walmart as well, here in California, in obvious violation of section 29451 of the state Food and Agricultural Code.

I'm going to check all the supermarkets and grocery stores in my county tomorrow, and if I find any, I'll inform the county commissioner. We need to be vigilant about this.


----------



## jim lyon

This stuff has been marketed for a number of years and I have long been puzzled by who it is targeting. Dont remember exactly but seems like the calorie content is pretty similar to honey and the price really isnt that much less. I think perhaps the most troubling thing about this is that if they are marketing to diabetics then Jim in Annville's post (#25) is quite insightful. There are many sugarfree products in the marketplace and they serve a purpose but I just don't see where they are going with this product especially since it is marketed by a large honey marketing organization. Are we missing something? I do know this, if anyone is waiting for the FDA to do something expect a long wait, their history on these products is if no one is getting sick then go to the back of the line.....a very, very long line.


----------



## summers nectar

wife just bought imitation honey at wal mart in wapakoneta oh. Got a bottle to give a taste test, that should increase sales at the farmers market this summer. With an after taste test like that we have nothing to worry about IF we can get them to taste real honey afterwards. 
All of the honey there was from southeast asia(in small letters), but approved by the USDA (in big letters}. Seems like a market we need to recapture with good US honey. Not at the big box store but at the local markets next door.
Just a thought!!!!
Dale


----------



## tarheit

Not too far up the Road from Wapak, I've seen it sold with the honey at Meijer in Lima.

Also have had one beekeeper who said he takes it to the farmers markets he does (here in Ohio I think) because he has customers who ask where they sugar free honey is. I'm not sure he's helping the cause, but he does make few extra dollars on the markup if he can't convince them to buy real honey.

Couldn't bring myself to buy any, even just for a taste. Care to share summers?

-Tim


----------



## FindlayBee

Tim- if I can find the bottle I bought, I will bring it to the next beekeeper meeting for a taste test. I may have tossed it already.


----------



## summers nectar

tim
i will be in lima the first of the week. Ill give you the bottle, maybe it will be useful in your classes next weekend. From our experience whole milk will cut the aftertaste.

Dale


----------



## MDS

If you determine their is probable cause to believe the label is illegal don't forget you can file complaints with your Attorney General as well. It's his/her job to enforce State law on the behalf of consumers. 

If the Attorney General gets enough complaints they may followup with an investigation of their own. We are the eyes and ears for the Attorney General and they rely on our input.

I'd leave it up to the Attorney General to decide if the State law is contrary to Federal.


----------



## Omie

'Honey flavored syrup' with little or no honey in it seems similar to when people sell 'Maple flavored syrup' for pancakes that has no maple syrup in it, yet it's legal to sell. I think Vermont has specific very strict laws about even using the word 'maple' on food products not made with real maple syrup.
I think it'd be hard to pass a law that no one but real honey sellers can use bear-shaped containers or have bears and flowers pictured on containers of 'honey flavored syrup'. 
People will try to get away with as much as they are allowed to get away with.
Tons of not-too-smart people would just grab a cheap bear bottle of 'honey flavored sugar free syrup' and think they were getting nice cheap honey. 
Remember, 49% of the general population is of lower than average intelligence!


----------



## BeeCurious

Omie said:


> snip
> 
> Remember, 49% of the general population is of lower than average intelligence!


Omie.... you omitted about 3 million people!


----------



## Island Apiaries

I have seem that stuff for sale here in WA State too. The store also sold my honey and I told them I really did not like stuff like this being marketed in proximity to my product. I got the "It's for diabetics" spiel. I then showed them my insulin pump that I have been on for over 20 years and educated them on the truth. They moved it and have told me they will not be reordering it again.


----------



## Shazam

Beeslave said:


> Federal law supercedes all state laws, therefore this product is not illegal to sell as it is labeled and bottled. Even though this product is directly illegal for sale in the law below the federal law says it is not so it is ok to sell.
> 
> Texas:
> 
> "§ 131.083. SALE OF IMITATION HONEY. A person may not
> label, sell, or keep, expose, or offer for sale a product that
> resembles honey and is identified on its label as "imitation
> honey."


Please take this as much authority as justified by the fee charged, ie none.

Federal law does trump state law. But federal laws and regulations often include a reference to individual state laws. Haven't ready the laws pertaining to this, so no clue. Also sometimes federal laws only specify what isn't legal, not what is, leaving it to states to regulate things more specifically.

Further, if a state acts based on its own regulations, the federal agencies or interested parties would need to take them to court if they feel a federal law supercedes the state law. Often they don't consider it worthwhile.


----------



## John Smith

And you would be suprised at how many of the 51 % not mentioned have either conned themselves or been conned by their mentors to believe that a glucose molecule and a fructose molecule are identical in every material respect to any other glucose or fructose molecule, regardless of whether that molecule originated in the flower or in the test tube/factory. They seem to really want to believe this stuff, in fact many would rather die from obesity rather than accept the idea that "It isn't so."

So 51% of legislators, policemen et al who are well educated may want to believe that stuff. They don't have sufficient interest to test it for themselves, i.e. by feeding tests on themselves, so the lie persists. Governments want the population fed, and don't really care whether or not the food is top quality, honest and morally presented.

Only the law of the jungle will change things, i.e., people pressure. If the beekeepers have 49% who believe a molecule of glucose is a molecule of glucose regardless of how it came to exist, what hope have we? Forty nine percent of beekeepers have less than average information on sugar molecules.

Sweet dreams.

God Save the Queenbee !

JohnS


----------



## FindlayBee

My understanding is the following:

1. Honey must be labeled according to Federal labeling laws.
2. Imitation honey must be labeled according to Federal labeling laws.
3. A State may restrict certain foods being sold in that State.
4. Imitation Honey is restricted from being sold in some States even if it meets Federal Labeling law.
5. Ohio is one such State that bans "Imitation Honey".
6. "Imitation Honey" should not be on the shelves in Ohio.


----------



## John Smith

7: The system turns a blind eye when it does appear! Unless, of course, enough beekeepers complain in a language they can understand.


----------



## FindlayBee

Sent a message to the FDA about this and got a reply today.

_



-----Original Message-----
From: Nicholas [last name removed] [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2011 9:22 AM
To: CFSAN-Consumer
Subject: Federal Food Labeling Laws vs State Laws on Prohibiting Sale of Certain Foods
_
Hello,

I am writing to find out if a food product that meets the Federal Labeling Law can be restricted by the State.

I live in Ohio and came across a product called "Imitation Honey". Ohio has a law prohibiting the sale of "Imitation Honey". Does the Federal Labeling Law or another Federal Law allow the sale of "Imitation Honey" in Ohio even if Ohio prohibits the sale?"

_"Dear Nicholas __[last name removed]__, No as states have the authority what can be sold within their state. 

Ms. Jeannine Ertter-Prego
Consumer Affairs Specialist
Communication and Coordination Branch
Division of Education and Communication
Office of Food Defense, Communication and 
Emergency Response
Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition
U.S. Food and Drug Administration
This communication is consistent with 21 CFR 10.85 (k) and constitutes an informal communication that represents my best judgment at this time but does not constitute an advisory opinion, does not necessarily represent the formal position of FDA, and does not bind or otherwise obligate or commit the agency to the views expressed. "_


----------

