# Learning the Hard Way



## HAB (May 17, 2008)

California:doh::doh::doh:


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## swarm_trapper (Jun 19, 2003)

hey jbj i got ticketed last year for not having an annual inspection on my one ton dodge, 
But i just picked up a FMC safety regulations book from the truck stop, and on page 579 it states under the exemptions of log books: The driver who operates a property carrying commercial motor vehicle for which a CDL is NOT required. 
So if i interpret this right if i have a truck that i dont need a CDL to drive i do not need a log book. 
stupid laws,
Nick


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

Comrade, 

Ze Socialist Republic of California doz dis zangs for ze good of en all ze people. Soon ve vill haf in place a system so dat ze only transportation vill be in Ugos. Try pulling your trailer in vun of zos. :lpf:


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

It's not only California.
John was shut down for 8 hours in MS years ago when he took his 1 ton down to pick up packages. He had a CDL but no log book. Since then he carries one and fills it out whenever he goes out of state. It is a pain and really ticks one off when you think of all those 40' RV drivers pulling trailers that can drive for 20 hours straight if they want to.....
In California we take the back roads a lot and still worry about getting stopped by a CHP who should be spending his time actually trying to promote safe driving rather than harassing beekeepers. We made it out of state without being stopped but the day we _left_ California we got stopped in Arizona. No reason, the HWY Patrol just saw what he thought was an easy mark. We had the DOT, insurance and log book up to date but he still kept us at the side of the road for 45 minutes lecturing because the log book wasn't filled out correctly, in his opinion. John forgot to dot an i or something.
Sheri


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## dbest (Aug 9, 2005)

These are the rules:

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regu...r/fmcsrruletext.asp?chunkkey=09016334800238a8 


And this means we don't have to follow them:

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regu...sp?chunkKey=09016334800238a9&keyword=apiarian


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

JohnK and Sheri said:


> . It is a pain and really ticks one off when you think of all those 40' RV drivers pulling trailers that can drive for 20 hours straight if they want to....
> Sheri


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

*Log Books.*

Sorry that you had difficulty, John.
Let me give you another point of view in regards to log books.
I have 3 trucks and they all have log books.
They are never driven without proper entry in the log books.
All legal-schmegal nonsense aside; I refer to these books frequently for all sorts iof info:
-When did I pull bees out of CA over the last several years? Cherries, Meadowfoam, Madres. etc....
-When was my last oil change? Tire rotation?
-Another waterpump?!! Didn't I just replace that???
-When did I drive down to ABC and buy XYZ???
-How many miles did each truck log this year? (for tax purposes?)
I have come to rely on my log books heavily for desicion making.


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## irwin harlton (Jan 7, 2005)

*old idea I once had*

Originally Posted by JohnK and Sheri View Post
. It is a pain and really ticks one off when you think of all those 40' RV drivers pulling trailers that can drive for 20 hours straight if they want to....

I used to haul packages out of California, I often thought of buying an old greyhound bus,gutting out all the seats and using it to haul packages.......... never have to stop at any weight scales, but I think by law they must stop at all railway crossings...............everytime you pull into one of those chicken coops it usually ends up costing you money and you don't argue with the attendants.......... they carry guns


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

Keith Jarrett said:


>


Oh yeah, I forgot, you are one of those driving the 40' RVs:lookout:



HarryVanderpool said:


> Let me give you another point of view in regards to log books....
> I refer to these books frequently for all sorts of info:....


I agree and look at them often enough as we go basically the same routes back and forth to California. I don't mind keeping the books, and they can be useful. What urks me is being harassed by 19 year old cops who throw their weight around over some silly technicality, just because they're bored and want a diversion.
Sheri


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Hey, you guys ought to try moving around twelve months a year in this state. You find me running old blue at night 90% of the time, the other 10% is on sundays when there at church.


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## JBJ (Jan 27, 2005)

Thanks for the feedback guys. Here is the excerpt from the link posted by Dbest:

Subpart A—General
§391.2 General exemptions.

(a) Farm custom operation. The rules in this part do not apply to a driver who drives a commercial motor vehicle controlled and operated by a person engaged in custom-harvesting operations, if the commercial motor vehicle is used to—

(a)(1) Transport farm machinery, supplies, or both, to or from a farm for custom-harvesting operations on a farm; or

(a)(2) Transport custom-harvested crops to storage or market.

(b) Apiarian industries. The rules in this part do not apply to a driver who is operating a commercial motor vehicle controlled and operated by a beekeeper engaged in the seasonal transportation of bees.

My question is what is the main part that this is "sub part A to"? I just got a copy of the dot rules today and it reads like a phone book. This sounds promising if it is iron clad, have you had an opportunity to share it with CHP yet?

Swarm Trapper, I tried looking up the rule you referred to in the book I have and I recall a 100 mile rule associated with that if I am understanding correctly or even have the right rule book.


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## Eaglerock (Jul 8, 2008)

I do Apportioned Registration for the State. I noticed two years ago, that even moving trucks they rent out have the US DOT numbers. Thought it was anything over 26000 lbs. But I guess that is just for the apportioned.


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## dbest (Aug 9, 2005)

Eaglerock said:


> I do Apportioned Registration for the State. I noticed two years ago, that even moving trucks they rent out have the US DOT numbers. Thought it was anything over 26000 lbs. But I guess that is just for the apportioned.


Unless your hauling other peoples things, for money, You do not need an apportioned plate. My tractor trailer is sitting in Fresno right now with: farm plates, DOT number, IFTA sticker, and NO log book anywhere in the cab. I do have a copy of the FMVSS book though.


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## swarm_trapper (Jun 19, 2003)

well JBJ im not a lawyer or even smart for that matter but it seems to me when i read that exemption that it is a stand alone exemption. in the list of exemptions there is one for the 150 mile radius but i believe that is referring to a vehicle that you need a CDL to drive. my book should not be out of date just bought it four days ago.


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## beekeeper_sd (Oct 30, 2008)

alpha6 said:


> Comrade,
> 
> Ze Socialist Republic of California doz dis zangs for ze good of en all ze people. Soon ve vill haf in place a system so dat ze only transportation vill be in Ugos. Try pulling your trailer in vun of zos. :lpf:


Heil! 
Ve haf run into zee same ting un Nebraska. Ve got pult over at 2:30 in ze mornink and told zat ve needed DOT numbers. :doh:
Und juz zis past November un friend got a $190 ticket for running ze scales und not hafing ze DOT number. 
Oh vell, zoon Obama vill make it zo ve cund all be unproductive und go on velfare. :lpf:


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## beekeeper_sd (Oct 30, 2008)

But, seriously, looking at the excerpt I read above I note one thing that I feel exempts us. We are NOT commercial trucks. We don't have commercial plates on our trucks and, according to our South Dakota laws, are not required to have commercial plates. But, as always, trying to argue with these guys is just beating your head against the wall.


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## Eaglerock (Jul 8, 2008)

beekeeper_sd said:


> Heil!
> Ve haf run into zee same ting un Nebraska. Ve got pult over at 2:30 in ze mornink and told zat ve needed DOT numbers. :doh:
> Und juz zis past November un friend got a $190 ticket for running ze scales und not hafing ze DOT number.
> Oh vell, zoon Obama vill make it zo ve cund all be unproductive und go on velfare. :lpf:


I took 4 years of german... your translation would be: opcorn:

Welfare! 
Ve haf run into zee same ting un Nebraska. Ve got picks over at 2:30 in ze mornink and told zat ve needed DOT numbers. 
And juz zis past November un friend got a 190 $ tick for running ze scales and hafing ze DOT number. 
Oh vell, zoon Obama vill make it zo ve cund all be unproductive and go on velfare.

That was about it. Sorry dude... 

Also it could be:
Heil! See Haf run into a Nebraska zee same ting. Ve got pult over at 2:30 in and told zat ze mornink needed sees DOT Numbers. Już Und zis past November a friend got a $ 190 ticket for running scale und not ze ze hafing DOT number. Oh old ville Obama make it zoon zo ve cund all be unproductive und velfare go on.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Vee are the Great State Of Kalifornia. Our Great Socialist Leader Herr RinoSchwarzenegger and the Party will soon own you all !

Travel at night.
Learn the 'scenic routes'
"Your papers ,please"


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## JBJ (Jan 27, 2005)

"...trying to argue with these guys is just beating your head against the wall." Beekeeper SD

Well for once the thickness of my skull may be an asset!


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## dbest (Aug 9, 2005)

JBJ said:


> "...trying to argue with these guys is just beating your head against the wall." Beekeeper SD
> 
> Well for once the thickness of my skull may be an asset!


I now know why I'm thick headed!! THANK YOU!


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## Scrapfe (Jul 25, 2008)

*Öbama ist ge-vaching Sie! Der audacity of hope nicht.*



loggermike said:


> Vee are the Great State Of Kalifornia. Our Great Socialist Leader Herr RinoSchwarzenegger and the Party will soon own you all !
> 
> Travel at night.
> Learn the 'scenic routes'
> "Your papers ,please"


Dang, you sound like you are dodging the Gestapo!! 

Try this if you dare.

I used to buy total wrecks in the Midwest. Another salvage dealer and I were coming out of SW Illinois with a 4 car hauler load. Three cars on the hauler and the forth in tow. We knew the law in Illinois, it stated that everything with two wheels touching the pavement needed a tag. A quick glance at the car we were towing showed that it had a tag. Outside Granit City, Ill. we pulled into a truck stop to top off the tanks before hitting the road. As we were preparing to leave a local cop pulled up and motioned to the driver, (the owner of the rig,) to roll down the window.

“Were you boys from,” he asked? “Alabama,” the driver answered. 
“Is that car you got in tow a total loss,” he asked. “Yea, I am afraid so," my companion answered. 

“Well didn’t you know that in Illinois all totaled cars got to have the license plates pulled off?” Yea we knew. That is why we kept an Alabama dealers tag under the seat. It just did not seem needed here.

We offered to replace the tag with our dealers tag but no dice. “No, I am afraid I am going to have to give you a ticket for having a tag on that car,” and he proceeded to write one out. While this was going on the driver took a big wad of cash out of his wallet and told me to put in mine. Once the city policeman finished writing our ticket he came back to the truck and gave it to us. He also informed us that the reason the insurance company did not pull the tag at the salvage pool was that the tag on the car had expired. Then he informed us that he had also written a second ticket for NOT having a tag on the totaled car. 

The man with me looked like he would cry as he informed this small town J. Edgar Hoover that he did not know what he was going to do. “Sniff, sniff, I just paid out all my money for fuel to get home on and now, sniff, I ain’t got no money left for a fine, you’ll just have to take me in. It’s a good, sniff, thing to because I’m sick and I’ll be a needing to go to the emergency room, soon as I get home.” 

He was sick, with a real bad cold. Not long before there was a Supreme Court decision that if you were sick when arrested you must be treated or evaluated by a health professional, before they lock you up. The cop said, “Hold on now, let me call the chief.” After a few minutes on the radio, while I imagined the chief priced an emergency room visit, the cop came back and told us to put on our dealers tag and go home.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Thats funny, and a good one to know.


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## saltcube (Jul 25, 2008)

I've never met a dot that i liked. Me and a partner were going to SC to fix a water leek in a 2500 with a SMALL excavator (rubber tracks) in towe. Got puled over in SC after 20 to 30 min he came back and said we could go without so much as a ticket. at the time we didn't think we had anything to worry about well on the way home after a long hard day we got the privilege of talking to the dot in GA (same day,same truck and tractor) long story short we were find for every thing that was wrong and right on our truck and i think he threw in a bones for me being white and my partner being black (OK that part i made up but it would not have surprised me.) the total was $1,500.00 (if you just saw that number and said to your self "that's not bad" can i have $1,500 dollars b/c you must have more money then me)


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## Flathead Honey (Aug 1, 2007)

*just say no to DOT number*

It is much cheaper and easier to take the tickets for running the scales and not having a DOT number than it is to get a DOT number and comply. Much, much cheaper and much much easier on the mind.


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## dbest (Aug 9, 2005)

We don't have a DOT number on our one ton and have never had a problem. At the same time we rarely go on the interstate with it. I have a friend that has four F-550's and doesn't run DOT numbers and has only ever had minor issues.


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