# Cold - worried



## Grins (May 24, 2016)

We're heading to 20 below zero this weekend as well. I've done my preparations and will leave it to the bees at this point but still find myself thinking about blankets, hot water bottles, heating pads and the warmth of a garage/shop/barn. Good Luck!


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

If they are well prepared they'll be fine. We get that cold every year a few times. One of those is coming this weekend. -20 low and -10 high on Sunday. There are some colonies with small clusters that are likely in trouble, but a heating pad or any of that mess doesn't undo what I did wrong during the season (mainly letting the mites build up too much). But most are good and strong. Have overwintered some in 1/2" plywood boxes in these temps too and it's not been a problem as long as I didn't make other mistakes.


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## Hops Brewster (Jun 17, 2014)

Leave them as they are. This is not the time to move them around and risk disruptions.
If they went into winter healthy, have feed, no water leaks and adequate ventilation they should be fine.


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## spencer (Dec 7, 2004)

Back in the winter of 2014 there were a few night where the temps got down to -15 up here. The bees survived.
Just make sure they have an upper entrance for ventilation and also so they can get out of the hive when the snow piles up around the bottom entrance.


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

something to break the wind is extremely helpful with the bitter cold. A piece of plywood propped up against stakes or on the hive itself is a non-invasive way to "help" the bees. And snow is a very good insulator for the hives, just keep the entrance clear.


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## Dan the bee guy (Jun 18, 2015)

I kept a hive in the 70s I did nothing for that hive no insulation no quilt box no wrapping and that hive survived fo 5 years. Now everybody is doing so many things to help the bees stay alive in the box in the winter. I feel the only thing that needs to be done is control the parisites and don't take all their honey.


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## msl (Sep 6, 2016)

going to be ruff here as well..... high of 62 today and low of -3 on sat, no snow on the ground for insulation


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## spencer (Dec 7, 2004)

More that likely if a hive is infested with mites going into winter it won't make it until spring.


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## NewbeeInNH (Jul 10, 2012)

Yeah, I'm worried too, haven't been able to wrap my hives yet, been one thing after the other, hope to get them wrapped in the next few days but tonight's gonna be the first super chiller. I did get the quilt pillows in the hives, laid them right on top of the sugar bricks with an empty super around them. I just don't know how they're going to do with the terrible spring and summer we had last year. I don't feel they had adequate sources to really build up the way they should have, so we'll see. I also think the queens that were hatched in my splits last summer were not quite up to snuff. The hives with the bought Russian queens seem to be thriving much better than my homemade queens. Crossing fingers we'll have a banner spring and then I'll make a bunch more splits and hopefully the queens will be more optimum. But yeah, we sweat it out while our bees are freezing out there. Got plenty more cold snaps to survive this winter.


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## syrup man (Aug 23, 2015)

Thanks for the reassurance everyone guess I did everything I needed to so well sit back and suffer till spring


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Still kickin'


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## Steve zone 5 WI (Jan 2, 2013)

Ours are not wrapped, no quilt boxes. Just an out of the wind place and ventilation. 


I have my fingers crossed that I did everthing right this fall......

Steve


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## larrypeterson (Aug 22, 2015)

Friends,
I don't have enough knowledge or experience to make an intelligent comment, on this subject, however, last year we didn't wrap but we did use quilt boxes and lots of winter stores including Laurie's sugar blocks. We never lost any colonies even though the temperatures got down below-20 F. It is my opinion that a small entrance is necessary. My wife and I use a restricted bottom entrance and a "nickle size" entrance hole near the top. Maybe this was just luck, maybe not. This year we are wintering the same way. We are located at about 7,000 ft in the mid Utah desert area. If I have some poor wintering bees I would just as soon let the cold conditions "prune them" out and proceed with the ones that winter well with our conditions.

When I studied "Latin" the only three words that stuck was"Magnus Grainus Saltus". I wish you well and I hope you find what works well for you in your area and with your local conditions. LP


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## kaizen (Mar 20, 2015)

Lauri said:


> Still kickin'
> 
> View attachment 29425
> 
> ...


I do recall reading you just can't help putting blankets on them? 
I have a few hives that need all the help they can get so i'm putting on some cheap blankets and temporary tarp. i'm doing some serious configurations this year on the standard quilt boxes. Will be interesting to see if it makes any difference.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

kaizen said:


> I do recall reading you just can't help putting blankets on them?


Blankets? I recall my first year I had a couple small nucs that were limping along I threw a couple horse blankets over when temps got pretty low. Other than that, no blankets or quilt boxes for me. I let the condensation evaporate with a well insulated lid, small top entrance and avoid anything above that may absorb moisture.


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## frogpondwarrior (Aug 2, 2016)

Last night and today the wind chill is hovering around -30F. The forecast is for the temp to rise to 50 on Sunday with rain. That's an 80 degree swing. Ouch!!
I have 4 hives (3) 10’s and one 8 framed. The 10’s are all double deeps with a full med honey supers and the 8 frame is just a double deep. Above my top boxes we placed a 4 inch feeding boxes with an attached ¾ shim. In the shim we cut out an upper entrance. Sugar blocks were placed in the 8 frame feed box with burlap just above it. There is no feed yet in the other 3. We did not have any more burlap so cut up some old window screen and placed in each box to stop the added shavings from falling through. Forgot to mention I have #8 cloth built in between the shim and feeding boxes. On top of the feeding boxes I placed Mann Lake moisture boards and covered with and inner cover, then reflective insulation and the outer cover. All the hives are wrapped with roofing felt (tar paper). 
So I only have the upper entrance as a moisture escape. Should there be holes maybe at the top of the feeding boxes above the shavings or is there enough moisture wicking material to leave as is??? 
Oh, each hive is sitting on a screened bottom board with the drawer in. 
This is my first year, so one mistake by me may be their last.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

Lauri said:


> I let the condensation evaporate with a well insulated lid, small top entrance and avoid anything above that may absorb moisture.


why? your location doesn't require it or there is a reason to avoid something like a homasote board?


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## kaizen (Mar 20, 2015)

Lauri said:


> Blankets? I recall my first year I had a couple small nucs that were limping along I threw a couple horse blankets over when temps got pretty low. Other than that, no blankets or quilt boxes for me. I let the condensation evaporate with a well insulated lid, small top entrance and avoid anything above that may absorb moisture.


not accusing you did. it was a doting remark you made in your barrel bees thread. that's how I feel this winter. my poor babies need blankies. 



Lauri said:


> I am tempted to throw a blanket over the whisky barrel the next time we get a bitter snap, but then I wouldn't be pushing them, would I.
> I am also tempted to hang a fat frame of honey in front of the comb, but again, it would be an aid I want to avoid for as long as possible to see just how they winter on their own.
> 
> QUOTE]


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

kaizen said:


> not accusing you did. it was a doting remark you made in your barrel bees thread. that's how I feel this winter. my poor babies need blankies.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Artur_M (Aug 14, 2016)

The weather here is not pleasant either: 15-20 to 58 tomorrow.

I have a rather strange question: did someone tried to measure the inside temperature using cooking thermometer (stick-in type)? Does it help anyhow to know the inside temperature?

I push the stick in through the bottom or top entrance 

What makes me worry about these days is size of my colonies: when I was putting my quilt boxes with sugar bricks in top of the super, in one of the hives I noticed a "ball" of bees hanging from the inner cover and a ball size was about tennis ball. I am sure it wasn't total amount of bees, but it worries me.

In the other hive they didn't touch the sugar brick at all, and when I opened it up - there was no bee jumping at me - it was strange to me and I got worry that the hive is dead, but after a while they appeared and were behaving as before.

The other question, what I want to know, how to recognize frozen or dead bee?
Sometime I see a bee outside of the hive in this cold weather, which is hanging from the hive wall, but is it dead or frozen?


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

Artur_M said:


> The weather here is not pleasant either: 15-20 to 58 tomorrow.
> 
> I have a rather strange question: did someone tried to measure the inside temperature using cooking thermometer (stick-in type)? Does it help anyhow to know the inside temperature?
> 
> ...


I use the remote temperature sensors from Ambient Weather to see what the temps inside the clusters are. they have a flexible wire that you hang down in the hive. Sometimes I find the cluster perfectly. Othertimes, I'm off by a few combs, and boy does the temperature vary in just a couple of combs (I'm running all topbar hives). Here is a link to the photo this year showing 3 different hive temps on the inside, plus the outside temperature. These are lots of "fun" to have, but not at all necessary for the bees to survive winter. But it helps ME survive winter knowing a little more information about the bees. (I also have windows in all of my TBHs, including the nucs)

https://www.facebook.com/topbarbeehive/photos/a.824361484257050.1073741838.687315994628267/1536790006347524/?type=3&theater


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Sorry, I can't resist-I've been both for sure

New beekeepers










experienced beekeepers:


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## jonsl (Jul 16, 2016)

Ha, ha..don't touch my teeth!!


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## Aroc (May 18, 2016)

-25f this morning with a wind chill of -40. Fortunately it's only lasting one day. I have insulated the hive and surrounded it with straw bales. Put a quilt box on. Decided to drape a tarp over the front to help a bit with the wind chill until it warms up to al least above freezing. I like the idea of a blanket though if just temporarily.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

Cold here too this morning. Think I'll rush out and drill more ventilation holes in my hives.


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## Aroc (May 18, 2016)

Vance G said:


> Cold here too this morning. Think I'll rush out and drill more ventilation holes in my hives.


:thumbsup:


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

For the sugar bricks or loose sugar to work they must be on top or on the bottom of the
bee cluster. I overwinter in 4 frames on single deeps some with 2 queens divided hive in half.
The -1 and -3 was chilly and frost all over the roofs and grasses on the front lawn. The small
winter cluster about 2 frames of bees clustering together require 4 lbs. of loose sugar per week to
keep their hive temperature up during the chilly nights. Imagine how a full grown deep hives will use
their carbohydrates stores at this time. Without the loose sugar on the bottom board one cold winter night
will wiped them out completely. I can sense the heat coming from these small clusters in the night time enough to
keep them alive until Spring time again. It was very intense warming heat generated by burning the calories from the sugar.
The extra high milk protein added to the patty subs will keep their blubber insulation on longer too. Bottom line is as long as they
can reach the sugar or honey source everything should be warm and cozy as they can generate all the heat needed to keep things 
balanced from the outside environmental influences. Keep them stocked up and within reach. 
It makes me happy every time I see a few hundred bees chowing down the loose sugar on the bottom board!


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## Michaeljp86 (May 19, 2016)

-6 right now in lower michigan. all i think about is my bees


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## Artur_M (Aug 14, 2016)

To my knowledge it's ok if it's cold. Bees can manage themselves as much as they have food and the place is dry.

The other picture is here in Maryland: it was 64 yesterday and 27 in the morning today: each hive lost at least 2 dozen of bees  It's not much that I have to worry about, but if the days is cold, they don't get out and I haven't seen any dead bee in front of the hives.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Artur_M said:


> It's not much that I have to worry about, but if the days is cold, they don't get out and I haven't seen any dead bee in front of the hives.


Do you think they aren't dying just because they aren't leaving the hive?


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## Artur_M (Aug 14, 2016)

jwcarlson said:


> Do you think they aren't dying just because they aren't leaving the hive?


Maybe they were/are dying daily, but whenever the days is rainy I've seen dead bees in front of the hives.
Maybe some little robbing is happening, but I am not sure - usually rain is an issue, even summer and fall, but cold is definitely is not an issue.


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

No amount of worrying at this point will change anything come spring. Make some mead and relax it is what it is.


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## Grins (May 24, 2016)

Worrying just happens to be part of my weight loss program. I'm trying to write my book, 'Aerobic Worrying' which combines the best of speed pacing and mental anguish. My previous book, 'Worry Without Stress' didn't sell all that well so I thought I'd come at this from a weight loss angle.


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## syrup man (Aug 23, 2015)

Let me know when you get the first copy out


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## Colobee (May 15, 2014)

Here's a good winter's read. "_All tests were conducted at Madison, Wis., from December 1 to March 31 for 5 years._"
http://beesource.com/resources/usda/the-thermology-of-wintering-honey-bee-colonies/

From about 2/3rds of the way down:"_REFRIGERATED COLONY STUDIES"

"A special refrigeration unit was built that could hold two colonies of bees and could maintain a temperature as low as -45º F. It was equipped with two thermostats and a time clock to give two cabinet temperatures for each day. An electric heater was used to increase the cabinet temperature to the higher daily setting. A 3/4-inch tube extended from each hive entrance to the outside to provide ventilation. A heater was applied to each tube to keep it free of ice. Otherwise the moisture in the tube would condense, freeze the tube shut, and suffocate the colony_."

I can remember worrying about the bees & extreme cold temps. 'Seems like a distant memory now.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

Now that our cold temps have moderated, the suicide rate of bees leaving the hive in the twenties has doubled. A half dozen a day were in the fresh snow every day, Now with temps approaching freezing there are a couple dozen. Mainly it serves to show me they are still alive. No use worrying about what you can't change. Nothing to be done til mid February when I put on a pollen pattie and check to see if they need sugar bricks to replace used up Mountain camp. My chief worry is about a ten week old lab pup dismantling the Christmas tree. That will keep you running the weight off! I suppose it works out the same as Grins Aerobic worrying.


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## costigaj (Oct 28, 2015)

I'm a first year guy and live In a cold climate. Already had snow and two ice storms. I treated for mites in the fall, I made sure the bees had lots of stores, OAV'd one last time in early December, have an upper entrance and I'm using a quilt box. It's all I can do to prep the hive. The rest is up to the bees.


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## jonsl (Jul 16, 2016)

Colobee said:


> Here's a good winter's read. "_All tests were conducted at Madison, Wis., from December 1 to March 31 for 5 years._"
> http://beesource.com/resources/usda/the-thermology-of-wintering-honey-bee-colonies/
> 
> From about 2/3rds of the way down:"_REFRIGERATED COLONY STUDIES"
> ...


Thanks for sharing this useful and interesting study!! I'm not so concerned about not wrapping my hives here in "balmy" NJ now.

Jon


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

The cold here in frosty nights doesn't worry me anymore. It is the tf hives that
have the mites that worry me the most. Found 4 bees on the ground crawling on their
daily 50s orientation flights. I'll bet there are more mites in there after the Dec. 15th new bees emergence.
Many adult bees are big and healthy flying ones though.


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

I always lose some due to whatever I cannot control. Come spring, I have unused honey along with good comb and woodenware.


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## souficoufi (Dec 10, 2016)

Bonjour
Est-ce que je peux nourrir en gâteau de sucre et en même temps en sirop ?
Je pense que le sirop c'est pour faire boire les abeilles en hiver. Que conseillez-vous ?


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## frogpondwarrior (Aug 2, 2016)

No reason you can't feed both. The temp and the bees will tell you which they like. If the syrup gets too cold they will not take it. If it freezes the expansion may destroy some of you equipment and is of zero value to your bees. Best to feed sugar blocks in cold temps.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

Vance G said:


> Now that our cold temps have moderated, the suicide rate of bees leaving the hive in the twenties has doubled. A half dozen a day were in the fresh snow every day, Now with temps approaching freezing there are a couple dozen. Mainly it serves to show me they are still alive. No use worrying about what you can't change.


That's a great point. No benefit in worrying at this point. And seeing some dead bees in the snow may actually be a good thing. If you think about it, two or three months ago the queen may have still be laying hundreds of eggs a day. Many of those bees are reaching the end of their life span now. Seeing dead bees in the snow could indicate that those older bees are leaving the hive, knowing their time is about up. They are programmed to do whatever is in the best interest of the "colony". I worry most if I see no activity or no dead bees purged from the hive.


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## frogpondwarrior (Aug 2, 2016)

souficoufi said:


> Bonjour
> Est-ce que je peux nourrir en gâteau de sucre et en même temps en sirop ?
> Je pense que le sirop c'est pour faire boire les abeilles en hiver. Que conseillez-vous ?


Sorry I should have included your question so you knew this was a reply to your question souficoufi.
No reason you can't feed both. The temp and the bees will tell you which they like. If the syrup gets too cold they will not take it. If it freezes the expansion may destroy some of you equipment and is of zero value to your bees. Best to feed sugar blocks in cold temps.


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## souficoufi (Dec 10, 2016)

Bonjour
Est-ce que les abeilles boivent de l'eau en hiver ? où ? faut-il leur donner de l'eau en hiver?


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Here is a translator in case you needed it in English at http://www.bing.com/translator


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## frogpondwarrior (Aug 2, 2016)

souficoufi said:


> Bonjour
> Est-ce que les abeilles boivent de l'eau en hiver ? où ? faut-il leur donner de l'eau en hiver?


Ils reçoivent de l'eau de divers endroits. Miel, condensation à l'intérieur de la ruche et eau de l'extérieur de la ruche. Je les ai même vus sur la neige et puis ils volent à la ruche. Impossible d'imaginer qu'ils ne faisaient que rafraîchir leurs pieds. Doit absorber l'humidité de la neige. Vous obtiendrez de meilleures réponses d'un public plus large si vous utilisez https://translate.google.com/ et les soumettre en anglais, comme le suggère le beepro. Voilà comment je communique.


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## souficoufi (Dec 10, 2016)

Thank you, it helps me a lot your answer.Good year


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## thesecurityeagle (Jun 21, 2016)

George Imirie says cold does not kill. I tend to agree, but not as vehemently. I have bees flying today. It is supposed to snow lightly later next week. I tried to pick up the back of the hive and can barely lift it with my entire hand. I cant lift it at all with two fingers...Im inclined to monitor until mid January. I will probably do a quick check in January on a warm day. If I need to feed I will do so at that time with 1:1 in a hive top feeder which I have on the hive now.

http://pinkpages.chrisbacherconsult..._FEBRUARY_and_COLD_-_Are_your_bees_ALIVE.html


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## larrypeterson (Aug 22, 2015)

If I may,

We have had several nights where the temp' dropped to -17 F. It is not uncommon to have -20 F temps for 20 or more days during the winter here. Last year we did not lose any colonies. So far this year every hive is alive and doing well. We don't wrap the boxes, however we do make sure the colony has plenty of stores and that they have an uncluttered entrance. If we have a warm day in February I will check to make sure they all have food, either in honey or sugar. I don't think "Temp'" is near as big a problem as some folks make it out to be. I operate with the Michael Bush notion that "feed, keeping them dry, and free of varroa mites" is the main things to be concerned about.

A word of caution, Just because I think this way doesn't automatically make it true or make it the only way to operate. It is desirable to find out what works for you. "I have been snapping my fingers for the past 20 years to keep the elephants away. So far it has been very effective." I will be sure to pass this down to my family members so we can make it a tradition and be free of elephants bothering our haystacks. 

I wish you well, LP


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## souficoufi (Dec 10, 2016)

Au Michigan ,on fabrique des ruches à 3/4 pouces d'épaisseur du bois.Est-ce que c'est pas dangereux en hiver et aussi en été ?


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## Colobee (May 15, 2014)

If you read the USDA article, they talk about extended periods of (artificial) temps around -45*. The bees survived but were severely infected with Nosema.


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## souficoufi (Dec 10, 2016)

Thank you for your very helpful answers.
In summer with us (in Algeria) temperatures reach 41 ° and peaks of 44 °.
What to do for hives?


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

I would put a foam piece on top of the hive and secured it down with a big brick or whatever you have available.
The shaded hive will prevent the comb from melting inside. If you cannot find the foam sheet then a piece of cardboard or
plywood will do. Maybe some palm leaves too or what you have that can shade the beehives a bit. Maybe move the hives
into a shaded area or make a small porch aea to put them in.


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## BDT123 (Dec 31, 2016)

My two strong hives have turned into one, but -25C right now. Cleared frost from the upper vent on the survivor today, strong buzz from the 3 storey unit. The 2-tall is quiet so not much hope there. Way too cold to look. Sad, but not hopeless. 
Did my mite treatments in Fall, fed hard in Sept-Oct. We'll see in a few weeks. Will get a stethoscope on the job. Both hives had a lot of stores going into Winter. Steep part of the learning curve.


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## BDT123 (Dec 31, 2016)

Soufi- wow, you have a situation that only the folks in in the south of the US or Southern Europe can answer. I never see those temperatures!
I think BeePro is right. Shade and/or insulation. 
Best of luck! 
Brian


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## BDT123 (Dec 31, 2016)

Duplicate


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## BDT123 (Dec 31, 2016)

Good advice BeePro. I see you are a "southern" beekeeper, so you know what you're talking about. 
You'll never see -25C , and if you do, it's the end of days....
Brian


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

clyderoad said:


> why? your location doesn't require it or there is a reason to avoid something like a homasote board?


I just want to say that the homasote board is genius. You mention it frequently and this year I finally decided to try it instead of trying to make shims for every colony (I hate putting holes in my boxes). They're awesome. I dado'd a channel on one short end to serve as the upper entrance and I've extremely happy with the outcome. Most seem to be dry, but on a couple I've popped the tops on it's obvious that it absorbed some moisture that would have other wise been "loose" in the colony.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

jwcarlson>> I can't take credit as I learned from a much smarter beekeeper than I. Just passed it along.
I am glad these covers have worked out for you, a 4x8 sheet makes a good number of them and the sheet is $20-$25 so
can't beat the price, easy to make too and last for many years (10 is not out of the question).
Many times I put a couple of twigs on top of the homasote before putting on the outer cover(either migratory or telescoping) to lift the cover off
a bit, maybe 1/8" or so. It allows for some air flow over the top and helps the homasote wick moisture to the outside
from the 4 edges and also the top. They stay drier when spring brooding starts coupled with early spring rains.
I notch with a sheetrock knife about 3/4" wide and 1 1/4" back to give me the same upper entrance, can to it in the field.

How are the bees making out this winter in your neck of the woods?


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

clyderoad said:


> How are the bees making out this winter in your neck of the woods?


The ones I prepared well are great.
The ones that I rolled the dice on not treating, poorly.
It's all on me though. I need some of those unicorn queens


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

ha ha. 
I don't know if you really what them, I've read where they swarm a lot and are poor honey producers.
Also, out of their element they quickly get homesick and many perish in the first year.
Of course their natural habitat is very limited, so any knowledge I have of them is all second hand.
If they show up here I'll send one out to you asap. 
BTW, do you know what they look like?


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## jonsl (Jul 16, 2016)

clyderoad said:


> ha ha.
> I don't know if you really what them, I've read where they swarm a lot and are poor honey producers.
> Also, out of their element they quickly get homesick and many perish in the first year.
> Of course their natural habitat is very limited, so any knowledge I have of them is all second hand.
> ...


They have one antenna in the middle of their head.


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