# Very Weak Hive Going Into Winter?



## mike haney (Feb 9, 2007)

Keep feeding syrup till daytime temps fall to 50degrees then switch to dry sugar on a single sheet of paper laid on the top frames AKA MountainCamp Method put up a windbreak and hope for the best.
Good Luck, Mike


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## Axtmann (Dec 29, 2002)

If you wrap Styrofoam around and some under the inner cover, it keep them warm, and they saving lots of energy during winter.


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## Rick 1456 (Jun 22, 2010)

JMO, I would go with 2:1. Less for them to process and moisture with cool temps is not the best environment. Time is not on your side either I wouldn't think. I used roofing paper around the hives last winter. The black on the sun really warmed them up.


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## jdmidwest (Jul 9, 2012)

Time is short, the first widespread frost is coming Sunday nite. 

My next batch of syrup will be 2:1. They have not been working the 1:1 much lately any way. Fall greened up, we had more rain in Sept that we did from May 15 thru the end of Aug. But they were so low on numbers, they did not make much of the fall flow. They did go to making new brood and I have the first young bees filling the hive in quite some time.

I was wondering about feeding them something else to get them to store it in the hive for the cluster. Some kind of patty or something.


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## Autonomy Acres (Sep 3, 2012)

jdmidwest - It sounds like our situations are similar. I have one deep, capped and raw honey, and still have some brood on the way. I have been feeding 2:1 for the last three weeks along with a pollen patty. I think I have at least another weeks worth of time to keep feeding syrup, but like Mike Haney said, I am thinking of switching to raw sugar on paper, or possibly making up fondant (sugar candy). If I make up fondant I am debating whether to put it along the tops of the frames, or to coat an empty frame with it - I might do both to see what they prefer. I will also bee insulating with a foam jacket, and wrapping them up in black roofing paper.


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## AramF (Sep 23, 2010)

WHy don't you both do an inframe feeder. Just rip a 2X4 into 1.5 inch think frame pieces and constructs a pseudoframe. Boil 4 parts sugar to 1 part water with some vinegar to make oatmeal consistency mass and pour it into the frame. Use seram wrap on the bottom to keep the sugar from leaking. I think the mixture needs to reach 275F. Once sugar hardens, tHe frame can go next to the cluster and they'll feed on it when a need arises. No need for extra open space to heat, no moisture problems or any extra preparations. Goes in flawlessly and they actually do use it. I've tried it with two hives and it works.

http://robo.bushkillfarms.com/beekeeping/emergency-feeding/

My only improvement would be to maybe place a jar in the middle of the frame as you pour the mixture, so that there is a hole there when the sugar dries and you take the jar out. THat way the bees will eat the frame from inside out, rather than from the edges toward the middle.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

AramF; good thoughts on the hole through the fondant! I put three wraps of foundation wiring around to keep mine in place in the frame. The bees are sure working it as well as bricks of fondant on top of the frames. The first attempt I boiled to 240 F. and it was a bit too soft. I reboiled to 250 F. and it seems about right. Any place in the hive you have empty frames can sure take a load of sugar in that form. I wonder if dry sugar could be shaken into empty comb cells?


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

hey jd.

i'm a little south of you, but mine have a fair amount of uncapped honey as well. the good thing is that there is lots of it. those boxes are nice and heavy with stores. 

sounds like you are bascially overwintering a large nuc in a single deep with all drawn comb. this is what i would do, based on the experience i had last winter. i had five single deep hives, they were even smaller than yours.

first, find out how many pounds the hive weighs, and this will give you an idea of how many pounds of stores you are short. scaling up to 10 frames from my smaller nucs, i would probably shoot for about 70 lbs total for ten frames, (but ask locals what weight they would recommend).

michael palmer recommended to me to have at least half, and a little more than half don't hurt, in stores. the other half, or slightly less than half, should be left as open comb to help clustering.

so, find out if you need to feed in the first place, and then feed only as much as necessary to get to target.
while it's still warm, i would use 2:1, with 1000 mg vitamin c per gallon and nothing else added. when it gets so cold that the syrup stays cold all day, the feeder needs to come off.

after that, they are probably not going to starve for a long time, even if they are short. they really don't use a whole lot in the winter. you can weigh the hive from time to time to get an idea of how much they are using their stores. 

i agree with insulation, it will make them have to work less and therefore use less stores. i like to make sure my top is insulated and ventilated just a little, to avoid any chance of the 'ceiling' of the hive getting cold enough for water to condense on it and dripping on the bees.

keep in mind, that syrup is not as nutritous as honey. it's like you or me trying to live all winter on soda pop. healthy gut chemistry of the bee depends on the nutrients in their honey. their immunity to disease is better if they get more than just sugar. that is why i would donate honey from another hive, but if i couldn't, i would use sugar to prevent starvation.

as far as feeding sugar when it's cold, what i found easiest was 10:1, (still using only vitamin c), which makes a damp paste that you can work into a patty or whatever you want. i put a 3 inch or so strip of plastic sheet around the top of the frames, leaving the middle open, and then put the paste on that. an empty super goes above the deep with the notched inner cover next, and then the insulated top.


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## AramF (Sep 23, 2010)

Dry sugar in the frames does not work. Dry pollen in the frames works very well. Dry sugar they treat as garbage and carry it out, otherwise that would be a great method. Even if you decided to put it in and wet it, you would need to add too much water, so it will be a condensation nightmare. If you put too little water, it will crystalize and they'll carry it out of the hive. Boiling the sugar makes it a hard candy which is cohesive rather than granular, pluse it is low in water content so it will act as condensation sponge.


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## terry14513 (Oct 23, 2013)

I have a week hive, very week, any suggestions, plan on wrapping with tar paper, I put 1/2 gallon of sugar water (1 to 1) and it was gone the next day. Do they need that much?


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

You do not give location, but that fast indicates they need more or a leak and running through. 1 to 1 is too waek for this late.
Greetings.


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## philip.devos (Aug 10, 2013)

Rick 1456 said:


> JMO, I would go with 2:1. Less for them to process and moisture with cool temps is not the best environment. Time is not on your side either I wouldn't think. I used roofing paper around the hives last winter. The black on the sun really warmed them up.


I agree with Rick regarding using 2:1 instead of 1:1. If you have empty drawn comb, they might fill the cells back. I had a deep with empty drawn cells (the queen moved upstairs), at the beginning of Sept., and started feeding heavy 2:1. By the second week in Oct. the frames were 80% full of the sugar water. We have been in a dearth since late June this year.


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