# Supers per hive



## Fuzzy (Aug 4, 2005)

In my experience, the number of supers per hive is completely unrelated to the number of swarms per hive. Mine swarm easily with 3 empty & fully drawn supers on top. 

So, then the question becomes, how many supers do folks in your area need to hold the honey. Also, are you going to do multiple "pulls & extractions" or just leave all supers on until the season is over. Personally, I mount them all in March (minimum 3) and may add more in June. Sometimes go to 5 high. Pull them in Sept.


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## carbide (Nov 21, 2004)

In my neighborhood, if I do an early split it will normally build up strong enough by late summer that I will need at least one super and sometimes two supers for the bees to have room to deposit all the nectar that they bring in during the fall flow. Some my splits however may have a hard time building up enough to fill two deeps by the time to get them ready for winter.

My over-wintered hives sometimes require as many as 6 or 7 supers to accomodate all the nectar that they gather. If however, the spring and summer are as unusual as this past year then you may only need 2 or 4 supers for your strong hives.

I guess what I'm saying is that you need to evaluate the strength of your over-wintered hives and determine how many splits you are going to make to try to get a handle on how many supers that you will need. If you plan for a boomer of a year (as I did last winter) you may wind up with twice as many supers as you need (like I did this summer). I actually planned on having 10-12 hives this past summer and had 40 supers on hand to handle what I thought would be a decent year for honey. I ended up with 15 hives (due to swarm and cut-out calls) and used about 17 or 18 supers due to the absolutely lousy nectar flow that occurred.

Since I'm not familiar with nectar flows or seasons at your location I guess it will be up to you or a local beek to determine what's reasonable in your area.


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## Finman (Nov 5, 2004)

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You must give room to hive so much as they need. If you try to escape them in some box number, it will not be the succes in beekeeping. 

If you split all the time they get no honey. If you keep them tight, they sram and take honey yield with the. Foragers are in the swar. 

You should prepair to bye so much supers as they need. It is only way to get money back with honey.
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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

>> are you going to do multiple "pulls & extractions" or just leave all supers on until the season is over.

As Fuzzy stated, this will really determine the answer to your question. If you plan to be pulling capped frames through the season and maintaining a kind of checkerboard super set up, then 3 supers will probably do it. But if you leave them on and pull just once, you may need more in place if you would happen to get a good flow.

* Remember though, if you are adding supers with foundation only and not drawn comb, you need to add them just one super at a time, until the combs are about 75% drawn out, then add another.

[ January 09, 2007, 05:18 PM: Message edited by: Mike Gillmore ]


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

>So I want to have plenty of supers on hand to avoid swarm problem.

I think that most beekeepers underestimate the numbers of supers that are needed. Even if you figure average crops for your area, there always comes along a few colonies that far out produce the average. Often these colonies swarm for want of a couple more supers. 

My 10 year average is a bit over 100 pounds...colonies that I would want a minimum of 3 mediums for. Yet I always have colonies that produce 240 or 280. That's six or seven mediums needed. And, you are talking about one hive body, and maybe 3 mediums. I'm talking 3 to 7 mediums on top of 2 3/4 - 3 deeps. You never know when a good flow will come along. I would say buy a few extra, and have them on hand.


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## AdelJeff (Nov 29, 2005)

Thanks everyone for the input. I just purchased an extractor so I can do multi pulls and extractions if need be this year. I will add supers one at a time so they build the comb up as suggested. I have a total of 30 deep boxes already so I will have a few extra boxes available with frames available if I end up with a couple real booming hives before I can do a pull and extract. I think I will start with 30 med then and go from there. I was just curious if there was an average number of supers beekeepers planned. 
Thanks again for all the help...

Jeff


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I've never had the "right amount" of supers. I either have too many or not enough. I prefer too many to not enough. It's not bad to have five supers available per hive for a bumper crop. It is depressing to run out of supers in a bumper crop and have them all swarm.







But then it's also depressing to have a bust year and have those supers stacked up with nothing in them.


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## Dan Williamson (Apr 6, 2004)

I've taken the approach that too many is better than too few. I ended up last season with 20 supers sitting in the garage unused. As I'm in the growing mode it was just less i had to purchase/assemble for this year. I typically figure 7 meds per hive when planning for growth. (3meds for brood and 4 med for supers) Some will use more some will use less. It has worked out so far.


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## Finman (Nov 5, 2004)

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If I have not supers enough over the hive, I join two weak hives fo main flow. Then I wait when boxes are filled and capped. And again more empty combs. This is my normal setup for main yield. Rape needs this.

In picture two weak hives together and then I carried them to moist fireweed pastures. 
http://bees.freesuperhost.com/yabbfiles/Attachments/Kuva_049.jpg

.


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## sierrabees (Jul 7, 2006)

Check out George Bush's web site on Swarm Control and look for opening the brood chamber. What works best for me for supering is to keep an eye on the hives during a nector flow, lift the top cover and check how many bees are in the top box. When there are bees on about half the frames I put on another super. If I find they are covering the whole top super in a week I add two supers at a time. My bees seem to work faster if they don't have too much space and they draw out comb much better.


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

>Check out George Bush's web site on Swarm Control

You must mean Michael Bush. Somehow, I don't think Michael gets mistaken for George very often.


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## sierrabees (Jul 7, 2006)

Absolutely right. I respect Michael Bush.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

On the start of a flow, put two supers on, come back in a week,or two if needed and add more to the ones needing more. During that round i usually put one on the hives half done fill the first two, and i put two on the full ones. Come back in a week or two and extract them. By then I can manage the hives with two supers working on a two or three week pull.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Check out George Bush's web site 

I didn't even know George was a beekeeper...

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesswarmcontrol.htm


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

>I've taken the approach that too many is better than too few.

True! Remember, nectar is 85% water, and honey is 85% sugars. During the flow, you must be one empty super ahead of the bees. They need space to store that watery nectar. If you wait for the supers to be capped, so you can remove them and extract, you have missed part of the flow


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## kensfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

>I didn't even know George was a beekeeper...

If he is.. he has a good trick going.. only the Tax-payers get stung!!


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## flathead (Nov 1, 2006)

Jeff, I also am going into my second year.

Here in our neck of the woods the (honey producers) beeks have 6 mediums of drawn comb ready for the spring flow per colony or they are working short-wooded.

I too used all deeps last year like you did to get some drawn comb. For me, just starting it takes a lot of bee energy to draw out foundation and then fill with nectar. Swarming slows this down to a crawl. 

My hives swarmed regardless of the room on top and I will be working nest congestion this spring, using small cell foundation, to make things interesting.


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## Finman (Nov 5, 2004)

<<My hives swarmed regardless of >>

If bee stock is not "slow to swarm", they swarm because it is their basic nature. Find a stock which do not swarm. It is result of man made selection, not gift to humankind


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## flathead (Nov 1, 2006)

Finman says....
Find a stock which do not swarm.

Hi Finman. I didn't realize that some would want that as a primary trait to breed for. 

That genetic trait(slow to swarm) is way down on my trait priority list right now. And it seems(logically speaking) in conflict with early brood rearing which is something I will(may) want later on.

First on the trait list today is surviving without hard treatments on small cell.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

>Hi Finman. I didn't realize that some would want that as a primary trait to breed for. 

Finman is right, you know. You can select for colonies that will swarm less...but can't select for non-swarming bees. Different strains of bee will swarm at different rates, won't they? Look at Carniolan bees vs. Italians. While the Italians are building up nicely in the spring, expanding their broodnests, they won't start swarm preparations until Apple, or later. But the Carniolans...they have such an explosive buildup in the spring, that they'll have cells at the beginning of Dandelion. For instance, when reversing brood chambers...usually late Dandelion for me. I find lots of colonies with young cells started, or cups with eggs. Not unusual for 1/3 or more to have just started swarm preparations. Carniolans in the same yard have already got sealed cells, and many have already swarmed. 

Look at it like this. You keep track of whatever colony traits you think are important. You say mite resistance. OK, fine. But what else? Disease resistance, honey production, and gentle nature? Probably others. One other trait is low tendency to swarm. It may be low on your list, but put it there. If you narrow possible breeders down to a handfull, and all seem to be the same as far as secection criteria, then choose the one or ones that didn't try to swarm...when others like them, did.


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## AdelJeff (Nov 29, 2005)

Flathead I couldn't agree with you more...

>>For me, just starting it takes a lot of bee energy to draw out foundation and then fill with nectar. Swarming slows this down to a crawl. >>

Let me know what you think of that small cell also??? And appreciate the # also. 6 drawn out would be very nice to have... Hopefully the following year... ;o) 

Michael I had the Carniolans and you nailed it with the build up and hopefully I can keep up better. 

Also for this first year that gentle nature was worth its weight in gold.. 3 stings for the entire first year, and 2 of those were because I loved going over and sitting watching the bees come and go and I didn't have any equipt on. I was bent over watching the bees go in and out and had bees get stuck in my hair and sting me.
Glad I don't have long hair or I would have been in alot of trouble... ;o)


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