# Top Bar Hive Plans



## Newbee13

http://www.bushfarms.com/beestopbarhives.htm 

Link is to Michael Bush's website. I have 2 top bars made using this information and they seem to be working well. 2 swarms caught on June 26. Large swarm has 16 bars drawn out, small swarm has 12 drawn. I use a saw kerf with "popsicle"stick glued in for a guide.


----------



## FindlayBee

Thanks a bunch, bookmarked and turned into a .pdf.


----------



## Sam-Smith

I modified the plans from biobees.com http://www.biobees.com/shop_cb.php
added a solid floor and dado the ends so the walls fit into them. I am very pleased with the results, I have some pics of my mods if you want.
If you glue 2 5.5" boards to make one 11" board it wont warp as much as a single 11" board. (reverse the grain direction on each board) 

Sam.


----------



## buckbee

http://www.lulu.com/content/815182


----------



## CovertBeekInColleyville

I found some plans that caught my eye. I really like the simplicity and low-cost design. It wouldn't take long to build a couple of these. I wonder how the bees would like this? A problem I see with this design is the plastic barrel may not provide enough insulation for a Ohio winter. But, I think it would work in my area. 
http://robo.bushkillfarms.com/beekeeping/barrel-top-bar-hive/

Side note: Take a close look at this guys domain name. The name is very similar to another popular bee keeping web site. Coincidence?


----------



## Stevedore

I also modified Phil Chandler's plans - to take 14.5-inch top bars and use US nominal 1x12's for sides.

http://www.biobees.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=19576#19576

I found that the smaller inside dimensions filled up fast - less than 3 months for a package of Italians. I have since built a four-foot version out of Amish rough-sawn poplar and moved the bees out of the three-foot hTBH. If I were to do it all over, I'd stick with Phil's 17-inch top bars and build four feet long from the beginning. Especially now that I have a source for rough-cut wood that's actually 12 inches wide.


----------



## FindlayBee

Thanks for all the information. Not sure why I wasn't able to find all those on my own. Lots of good information on the web.

Are there any major disadvantages to constructing a THB with straight walls? I have started to look at the Tanzanian TBH as it appears to be a bit easier to construct.


----------



## buckbee

Tanzanian combs are very difficult to move or lift without breakoffs - Kenyan comb is more stable due to the shape.


----------



## Stevedore

Some people think that Kenyan sides are less prone to comb attachments to the sides - others don't think it matters. I like the tapered combs that Kenyans produce and think they are lighter/easier to handle and less prone to collapse. I also think that side entrances in Kenyan sides help keep the rain out.

Kenyans are not that difficult to build if you follow Phil Chandler's directions and make two follower boards first. You can then assemble the hive upside-down by resting the sides on the follower boards while attaching the ends. This also makes your follower boards more bee-tight than trying to fit followers in after the box is built.





























I see you are Findlay - not too awful far from Minerva where I keep my bees. I believe there's a package supplier close to Mansfield.


----------



## FindlayBee

What are some advantages and disadvantages to placing the entrance in the side of the hive vs on one end of the hive? Also, how important is an entrance ramp or platform?


----------



## bakerboy

I have three kenyan tbhs and all have the entrance on one end. Not really an entrance, just that the first bar is back 1/2 inch from the end. With an end entrance the bees usually start the brood nest at the entrance and work towards the other end. 

Mind you, I have a friend who has a kenyan tbh and his entrance is smack dab in the middle of the side. When we installed his package we put the queen cage at one end, and his bees also have the brood nest at one end and honey at the other. I believe this configuration is ideal for over wintering. 

You don't want to go into winter with a central brood nest and honey stores to either side. Chances are the bees are going to move one way or another as they consume their stores, when they get to the end they may not be able to traverse the empty honey combs and the former brood nest to get to the other half of the honey stores. However I suspect they might on a warmer winter day. These are bugs, you know and they have tiny minds of their own. Sometimes it seems they have not read the same books I have.

As far as the ramp or landing board goes, my bees don't care. They just land on the vertical surfaces at the end of the hive and walk up. Sometimes they land on the underside of the roof and walk in upside down. That being said, I like the landing board on my lang because it makes a nice stage for photographing the bees.

I think it was Michael Bush who said that trees don't have landing boards and the bees like them just fine.


----------



## stangardener

if your in the states i highly recomend making your top bars 19" long and 3/8" thick. they will fit in a langstroth hive that way. making your top bars a couple few inches longer than has been so widely suggested can make your life and others much easier in the long run.


----------



## Michael Bush

Landing boards are just mouse ramps...


----------



## buckbee

1. The use of two followers - one each end of the colony - enables easy inspection from both ends with minimal disturbance of bees. This system requires side entrances.
2. For the purpose of raising nucs and doing splits/artificial swarming, you can arrange side entrances in various positions, making the hive very versatile.
3. The followers provide extra insulation in winter, isolating the cluster from the ends of the hive.
4. Side entrances with a slope-sided hive are more sheltered, particularly from rain and snow, which cannot enter the hive.
5. Side entrances on this type of hive let very little light into the hive, discouraging potentially fatal cold-weather flying.

And I don't use mouse ramps!


----------



## kaisfate

stangardener said:


> if your in the states i highly recomend making your top bars 19" long and 3/8" thick. they will fit in a langstroth hive that way. making your top bars a couple few inches longer than has been so widely suggested can make your life and others much easier in the long run.


Besides the obvious reason of being able to move a Top bar into a lang...why do you suggest making your top bars so they will fit in a Lang hive? Why would it make someone's life easier to have bars that fit into a hive you are not using?

*Most important thing I have discovered with TBH is to make sure the bars all have a guide that is better than a wax-filled kerf... (learned that the hard way, we are going to have A LOT of work in our TBH's next spring)*


----------



## FindlayBee

Thanks for all the good information. I will be putting my entrance on the side.

I have been reading that a 1-3/8 inch wide top bar is a good sized bar for Italian bees. However, I have come across several discussion that a 1-1/2 inch wide bar will work better. I know the 1-1/2 inch top bar will be easier to construct as a 1x2 is 1-1/2 inches.

Thanks again,
Nick


----------



## beenovice

kaisfate said:


> Besides the obvious reason of being able to move a Top bar into a lang...why do you suggest making your top bars so they will fit in a Lang hive? Why would it make someone's life easier to have bars that fit into a hive you are not using?
> 
> *Most important thing I have discovered with TBH is to make sure the bars all have a guide that is better than a wax-filled kerf... (learned that the hard way, we are going to have A LOT of work in our TBH's next spring)*


What you said in bold is certainly not most important thing....

Waxed kerf works perfectly well in my top bar hives. I have 300+ top bars made by bees with only waxed kerf in 7 TBHs in two seasons. 
You should keep your attention elsewhere...like level or if you install TBH from package you have to watch where you put queen cage...


----------



## buckbee

FindlayBee said:


> I have been reading that a 1-3/8 inch wide top bar is a good sized bar for Italian bees. However, I have come across several discussion that a 1-1/2 inch wide bar will work better. I know the 1-1/2 inch top bar will be easier to construct as a 1x2 is 1-1/2 inches.


Bars should be designed on the basis of what is best for the bees, not what is most convenient for your timber supplier! 

1 1/4 to 1 3/8 seems to be the most effective range - erring towards the smaller width. 1 1/2" would probably be fine for the honey bars.


----------



## kaisfate

beenovice said:


> What you said in bold is certainly not most important thing....Waxed kerf works perfectly well in my top bar hives.


Like I said..."what I have discovered"...ymmv


----------



## FindlayBee

Would there be problems if I use a 1x8 instead of a 1x6 to make the bottom of the hive a bit larger, but keep the top the same size? I have no problems using a 1x6, but I have several extra boards left over from another project that I thought about using for the bottom board.


----------



## Jer733

I cusomized mine a bit with sizes including top bars (used std 2x2's really 1.5 on all bars and nailed on old scrap as guides). 
-They built straight big beautiful combs.

Shouldn't matter for the bottom. I have used old langs and sloped Kenyen styles and they have yet to attach to sides, yet....


----------



## Sam-Smith

buckbee said:


> Bars should be designed on the basis of what is best for the bees, not what is most convenient for your timber supplier!
> 1 1/4 to 1 3/8 seems to be the most effective range - erring towards the smaller width. 1 1/2" would probably be fine for the honey bars.


This seems to work for me 1 1/4 with 1/4" spacers for the honey area 1 1/2 is a wide bar for the broodnest.


Sam


----------



## beenovice

kaisfate said:


> Like I said..."what I have discovered"...ymmv


You didn't really discover anything  Bees sometimes make some cross comb but waxed kerf is not the reason.....


----------



## FindlayBee

I plan on painting my hive. Can I get away with using regular zinc plated screws or should I got with brass or galvanized screws? Also, would a light grey or green be ok for the hive color?

I am going to go with a screened bottom with a removable bottom board. I was thinking about using a hinge on one end of the bottom board and a latch on the other side to secure it. This way, I could unlatch the board and tilt it down to once side. Has anyone tried this, or should I go with a totally removable board?

If weather permits, I will be starting assembly on Sunday.


----------



## Sam-Smith

I don't think the color makes a difference aside from the thermal aspect eg. white opposed to black. But I would suggest using a solid floor no screen, I tried the idea your thinking of with a removable floor. I found the bees cannot get to the debris that would accumulate on the floor under the screen, and eventually this will lead to pollen and tinny scales of wax collecting were they can't reach, I had wax moth in this debris and it wasn't very pretty. 
With a solid floor the bees keep it so clean its incredible, always looks like new with a strong colony.
Plus something I didn't even consider when I built my first tbh, if there ends up being a space between the screen and floor the follower boards can't be sealed by the bees for the winter and I would have had a gap under the screen. I like to let them control the hive as much as possible without making it unworkable. I also try to let the bees get to every crack so they can seal the hive to their liking.

As for the screws they are not exposed to the air except for the heads so unless the wood gets wet they shouldn't rust at all. Some woods might react with zinc screws but I wouldn't know since I'm not a pro cabinet maker 

Sam.

Good luck with the new hive.


----------



## LenInNorCal

Theoretically, zinc will not rust. But we ain't in heaven yet. Any flaw or even putting them in and marring the surface can cause rust, which is really easy to remove, but....If you use green paint, buy Marine Deck screws as they are green also. If you pre drill the holes then brass is a good screw that won't rust but you should use it on pine, not a hard wood. Or just get some good stainless steel screws. Use glue too to help set up, but it's moot since the gals glue everthing down with propolis, a truly sticky substance.


----------



## Sam-Smith

LenInNorCal said:


> Theoretically, zinc will not rust. But we ain't in heaven yet. Any flaw or even putting them in and marring the surface can cause rust, which is really easy to remove, but....If you use green paint, buy Marine Deck screws as they are green also. If you pre drill the holes then brass is a good screw that won't rust but you should use it on pine, not a hard wood. Or just get some good stainless steel screws. Use glue too to help set up, but it's moot since the gals glue everthing down with propolis, a truly sticky substance.


Lol you know how much stainless steel screws cost?  honestly I bet the wood will rot before the zinc screws disintegrate, everything has a lifespan so no matter how well you build it it WILL disintegrate its just a matter of time  mind you could take 10 years.

Sam.


----------



## LenInNorCal

Sam-Smith said:


> Lol you know how much stainless steel screws cost?  honestly I bet the wood will rot before the zinc screws disintegrate, everything has a lifespan so no matter how well you build it it WILL disintegrate its just a matter of time  mind you could take 10 years. Sam.


Well, I can't argue with the truth, but it sounded like he wanted a forever screw, so.......
I once had that same passion but after a while practicality sets in! Besides it would be good for an economy, no? Furthermore out of all the hobbies I've had over the years it turns out that beeks are THE one group with the strangest and most diverse individuals yet. But of course I do not mean thee & me. Do you think it's in the honey?


----------



## FindlayBee

Thanks for the screw information. Wanting to be inexpensive here on the hive construction. The zinc screws are the least expensive, brass is about $3 for 5 here. Box of about 50 zinc screws are $3. Stainless steel is only if my bees actually produce 25k gold.

Thanks again.

I am one of those people that studies plans too hard and over complicates things.


----------



## Sam-Smith

Just keep in mind that brass is more fragile then steel aka zinc and stainless steel, pine should be ok but hardwood like LenInNorCal said would not be suitable for brass. Diverse a? You should see the wvo torch I built then decided was to big  Don't you dare NOT call me strange! :no: I think its a chemical predisposition to honey addiction that produces... side effects 


Sam


----------



## drobbins

here are some pics of one I built
I like to be able to use either topbars or medium frames so I made the dimensions accordingly

http://www.drobbins.net/bee's/lh/lh.html

Dave


----------



## Sam-Smith

wow drobbins, very nice work dovetailed and everything, this is pine or white cedar? We need a sticky thread for pictures of everyone's hives for inspiration!

Sam.


----------



## drobbins

it's just the finished boards they sell at the big orange box
I think they call it SPF for spruce, pine, or fir
I'm guessing in my area it's white pine
yellow pine would be better but it costs more
it's held up very well, 4 years old now, looks great

Dave


----------



## LenInNorCal

FindlayBee said:


> Thanks for the screw information. Wanting to be inexpensive here on the hive construction. The zinc screws are the least expensive, brass is about $3 for 5 here. Box of about 50 zinc screws are $3. Stainless steel is only if my bees actually produce 25k gold.
> Thanks again. I am one of those people that studies plans too hard and over complicates things.


Glad to help. If you paint over the screw heads that will stop all oxidation for your lifetime. As you know, there is only 24k gold, but the honey my first bar gave me yesterday comes as close to that as possible!
As for overthinking plans, maybe bee folks do all that as well, in the beginning, because of the nature of what we enjoy.....bees! They to have it down to the gnat's eyelash.


----------



## LenInNorCal

Dave, very nice craftsmanship. Admirable.
Am I little green now?


----------



## drobbins

no need to be "green"
my point is it makes sense to make the dimensions match a regular hive
I have 2 long hives and 6 or 7 regular hives
it comes in real handy to be able to move resources from 1 to another
I don't do it often, but sometimes it saves a struggling hive
BTW, langstroth hives make more honey
you'll probably want a couple before you're done
the long hives are nice, no lifting:thumbsup:

Dave


----------



## LenInNorCal

That long hive is very nice! I have both kinds of hives that I've built, so I can admire your work, except you Carolina folks are known for working wood real well, as it shows.
I suppose you have no queen excluder? Do you find most of your brood near the front? Especially when the supers are in the rear, or does She go to the rear and then UP and lay?
If it snow in your area do you have the long hive up or protected? I can see how that would be real good, nice and easy to be able to transfer material around and substitute when needed. I built my three KTBH with the same dimensions and have doe that as well. But I still wonder about that queen and where she lays and your getting honey while not getting brood. Wish you site had more "how to's and words to that effect.


----------



## FindlayBee

Great looking hives everyone. Thanks a ton for the photos.

Got most of my TBH done today. Ended up having some things off a bit as I used 1"x12" finished boards which made things a bit smaller. However, I got that worked out. Bottom board is a bit narrow, but I was able to secure it.

Still need to add legs and a roof. Not sure what type of legs I will use. I may end up making a table for the hive to sit on --- still debating on that.

Will post a few photos later. I have to clear off the digital camera. Filled the memory card at the Findlay Balloon Festival.


----------



## FindlayBee

Well, here is a really bad photo of what I have done so far.

Not sure on the starter strip idea I had. I believe they are a bit too thick. Was looking at various ideas for wooden starter strips and thought these would work. Now that I think of it, I should have gone thinner.

A couple of the top bars are a bit longer than they should be. My fence on my table saw didn't lock down correctly when I cut several of them. They are 17" long with a 14" starter strip. I made up another group of top bars with a groove cut down the center. Will experiment with both types. If the groove works better than the wood strips, I plan to cut off the wood strips and groove all the top bars.

Entrance is on the side. Still have to drill 2 holes. My drill bit broke for some reason.


----------



## LenInNorCal

Well done. If you keep good notes, write on your top bars in marker what you've done to THAT top bar that is different from the rest, or number them and then keep a database they you will know which bar is the preferable one for reproduction. 
If you are making a roof or top cover to put over the hive make SURE that you can take the roof on and off without having a bar stick to the roof's insides. That's the mistake I made. Some bars were just a LITTLE longer than others do to poor cutting on my part as well as the moisture in the wood changed, and some time during the season I took the roof off a couple of odd bars stuck to the roof edge. The girls did not like that and tying to whittle down in the field is a task one need not look forward to.


----------



## Slee

If you are into building here is a great plan
http://topbarbees.wordpress.com/about/

Steve


----------



## Stevedore

I like the side entrance and two follower boards for the reasons Buckbee stated above. I went for the hinged bottom board with a lip around it under #8 mesh. It does collect pollen and wax scales if closed up, but I leave it hanging open all summer. I may put a piece of rigid foam insulation in it when I close it up for the winter.


----------



## FindlayBee

Thanks again for all the great help. Will be adding the roof this week and possibly legs. Not sure I want to do the built-in legs or make a stand.

Got the hive body painted today. Looks much better painted.

Not sure if I mentioned it, but I made the 4 foot hive. 30 bars plus 2 follower boards.


----------



## Stevedore

I have found 2x4's for legs makes a really sturdy hive. I take off enough for one top bar length off of an 8-foot 2x4 and then cut what's left in half. That makes two legs. I cut the tops off at a slant and attach one inch below the top of the end boards. This gives the telescoping roof something to rest on and leaves some space in the top of the roof to add winter insulation. I leave tke bottoms of the legs pointed so I can push down into soft ground to level.


----------



## FindlayBee

Well, ended up putting on some legs made of 2x4's. Came out better than I expected. 

Thanks again!


----------



## FindlayBee

Just about finished. Needs another coat of paint to get some of the areas I missed. Did some of the painting after work and the camera shows what I missed.

I still need to seal the ridge of the roof. Other than the painting and the sealing of the ridge, all it needs is a package of bees next Spring.


----------



## LenInNorCal

Nicely done, Findlay. I would suggest building another one, or one without legs for the winter, and several more bars, all the same dimension (at least the bars). I was surprised at how quickly I went through the bars. I am on a "swarm list" and got numerous calls during Spring to come get free bees. You may find that this hobby is very addicting and another hive + bars will become THE issue. If they are all the same dimensions then swapping material around becomes desirable. I know the temptation to change a little here and there as you build is great, but try and fight that notion in terms of interchangeability. Oh, and make sure the roof comes off, even after the wood swells a little, without taking up the bars as you raise it. Happened to me, so it need not happen to you.


----------



## beebiker

looking at the pics of what you folks have done with your hives is great, shows how divers a group we really are.
then their are us yahoos that for whatever reason never get a project started untill that package of bees is sitting on the kitchen counter and we still havent started the hive :doh:, so without any plans and just a pile of scrap wood and a quart of white paint this is what gets thrown together

















i have since added a insilated roof and built a sliding cover for the peek-a-boo window but otherwise it is still the same 
i guess my thought on it was these little honey makers will live in just about anything if given a chance, it just needs to be hospitible to their needs. just have fun with it and learn as you go, its a hobby anyway

beebiker


----------

