# Why beeks wear boots



## Live Oak

Lunch!!!!!  That's a nice one. Boots don't always stop the fangs though.


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## KQ6AR

The Ham Call hat adds a nice touch also.
Looks like you got dinner tonight.


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## LAS

*Keep'um coming Terry*

I enjoy your pictures and would like to see more please. How about some pics of your work and the operation. would love to see more, THANKS:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## DRUR

Didn't know you were a snake handler, but something is wrong with yourn snake, he pears to be missing his head. I figured that one was a species in danger.:thumbsup::lookout:


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## Terry Small Jr

I guess headless snakes are definitely 'endangered'.

I have more pictures on my blog: DonnerPartyKitchenStaff.com


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## thelorax

Nice blog, where did the inspiration for the name come from...


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## busbee59

*worlds largest dead snake*

this is a big one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uqg3Pg2M9WU


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## Terry Small Jr

thelorax said:


> where did the inspiration for the name come from...


I'm really not sure. I started using it years ago when I would order something for personal use and they wanted a company name. The idea of making somebody do a double-take, like telling them I _only_ got stung 3-4 times today has always held great appeal to me. I think my favorite sport is messing with people, in a harmless way.

To make sure a budding rock group couldn't steal the name from me I legalized the name as Donner Party Kitchen Staff, LLC in the great, business friendly, minimal fees, state of Texas. It's almost impossible to sue for a domain name when it's the name of an established (on paper) business.

Busbee59, that was awesome!


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## GRIMBEE

Why did you kill the rattler? Was it eating your bees?:no: He was probably keeping your hives rodent free.


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## Terry Small Jr

There are plenty of snakes around this apiary to kill the rodents that won't kill the beekeeper also. We never kill non-poisonous snakes. Allowing a rattlesnake to remain in an apiary is simply unacceptable.


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## GRIMBEE

It could of been delt with in a different way is all I am saying. Chased away or something, collected and moved. Are you gonna kill everyone that takes its place. 
You work in harmony with hundreds of thousands of stinging bees but can't with 1 snake. Human nature, If it offends us or is in our way kill it and destroy it, or cut it down so we are nice and comfortable. 
:s


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## Josh Carmack

Live Oak said:


> Lunch!!!!!  That's a nice one. Boots don't always stop the fangs though.


You might want to reevaluate the quality of your boots then, the boots I wear will stop bullets lol no but they are quite capable of stopping fangs and then some and they are comfortable as tennis shoes.
Of course they cost 130 bucks but Red Wing is worth the price.


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## BEES4U

I knew we would eventually get a save the snake repy.
Chased away or something, collected and moved.

Have you ever tried to put a snake in a buket or burlap bag. It's a lot of fun.
a snake can strike 1/3 the distance of it's body length--on a warm day.
But, they can inveminate on the go. (They do not have to be coiled to strike.)
I have had some strike at me and then move towards me for a 2nd attempt.
BTW: it appears to be a sub species of a western Diamondback. 
We have the following sub species in this area"
Yellow, red, and black.
If the black bands on the tail are concentric you have a WDB and it's to long for the coastal species.
Great photo.
We have lost 8 cats in our neighborhood to the Brush Wolf and they have to come 9 blocks into town to hunt our domestic animals.
One avocado ranch had to replace their drip/mister irrigation system because of the brush Wolves.
I think the worst predator is a Coydog hybride between the brush Wolf and a domesticated dog.
I like everything in natures harmony until it's out of ballance.
Chassed away-- I think I would laugh my butt off watching you perform that duty.
There is a Dr. at the Loma Linda hospital located in Riverside that specializes in snake bites and he does not need anymore victums.
Ernie


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## Terry Small Jr

Boots might not stop all fangs, probably not the ones in this picture, but they are the best defense I can get. I'm guessing (hoping) that they will block bites from most snakes hiding under bee pallets.

I understand where you are coming from, Grimbee. I wouldn't kill poisonous snakes if I didn't think it was necessary. We are commercial beeks and we must keep our apiaries as safe as we can. If I chase off a deadly snake, it will come back and reproduce. Collecting & relocating, we don't have the gear, experience, or, with over 3000 colonies to service by 4 guys, the time for that.

We all have families. Allowing an animal to live in our workplace that could take us away from them is not an option. What would my boss Jose do if he lost his son to a rattlesnake? What would Rebekah do if Uncle Terry was suddenly gone?


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## Tom G. Laury

*Buzztails*

And then you got the one pinched by the forks under the pallet & you don't know. Then you walk around the truck tying down and so on. Alone in the field where there is poor cell reception. When scared in an apiary they quickly move...under a pallet.


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## Terry Small Jr

My co-beek posted the video on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NOU3KgAIhc


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## Kathleen

BEES4U said:


> I like everything in natures harmony until it's out of ballance.


 http://imgsrv.gocomics.com/dim/?fh=7df10993eab63f0f91e39b331df3fbd5


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## GRIMBEE

OH well, at least u can eat the rest. yum. I have had gator also .


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## GRIMBEE

At least one person understood me.:thumbsup:


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## Terry Small Jr

Grimbee, just so there is no misunderstanding, I understand & respect your point of view. In my position, I can't find a way to agree with it.

Terry


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## honeyshack

When there are people hired on, or even just the O/O working the bees, farm, cows, what have you, you need a safe place to work. Especially if it involves employees, you have to make sure the work area is safe. Snakes which are poisonous are not safe. Getting rid of them in the work area is the only option to create a safe work enviroment. safety gear as well.


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## Kathleen

GRIMBEE said:


> At least one person understood me.:thumbsup:


FWIW, I probably would have killed the snake. I don't have a safe way to remove a venemous snake, though I wish a fat black rat snake would take up residence as the mice are creeping up from my crawl space. 

I did, however, find the irony in the out of balance comment.


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## BEES4U

I like everything in natures harmony .
I enjoyed the cartoon!
Ernie


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## saltyoldman

Gees! 
That is one scary snake.

I often wonder how you beeks in the south and the west deal with such encounters.

Since I have a phobia about such reptiles, it would be one the things that would be on my mind all the time. It would distract me to no end. I could never find the queen for fear of finding something a lot longer and way more lethal, just below the hive.

I would love to hear a few snake stories from the beeks in the southeast... How often do you guys run into vipers?


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## BEES4U

How often do you guys run into vipers? 
I worked my five frames nucs on Saturday for two hours and on Sunday I went in to the same exact place and found a small one that was 18" long. It had two rattles and a button.
The daily high temperatures are onley in the low 70's and the nights are near 55 degrees F.
As we get into July and it gets warmer they will be out and about.
I carry a Mutt gardening tool in the truck for weeds and snakes.
What is interesting is that this was a black one located on yellowish soil.
The Red Tailed Hawks are fond of snakes.
Ernie


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## BEES4U

Here is a good web page on the Western Diamondback Rattlesnake including it's range in southern California.

http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/site/accounts/information/Crotalus_atrox.html

*Western Diamondback Rattlesnakes are aggressive and easily excitable. This species causes more fatalities than any other snake in the United States. *They are not necessarily apt to attack offensively, but are rather highly defensive. Their rattles are used as a warning sign. Although the rattles were once thought to be used for intraspecific communication, this belief has been discredited because Rattlesnakes are actually deaf. Their rattles can activate at 40 to 60 cycles a second. The Western Diamondback assumes the threat posture by slightly flattening the body, rolling it together into a spiral, lifting the forebody from the ground into an S-shape, and keeping the tail raised and the rattle rattling.

Ritualized fighting has been observed in C.atrox males. Fighters lift their forebodies up 80 cm. in the air, wrap them around each other, orienting head to head. They keep moving in a surging movement back and forth until one of the males backs off. Common predators of C.atrox include hawks, bald eagles, roadrunners, and wild turkeys.

In the fall, Western Diamondback Rattlesnakes begin migrating to winter hibernacula. In warmer habitats, these hibernacula are fairly makeshift, being found in rock crevices or convenient holes. In colder habitats, such as prairie grasslands, populations are forced to use the holes and tunnels of burrowing mammals, especially the prairie dog. Although prairie dogs may block off the Rattlesnake with an earthen plug, these animals tend to abandon burrows that have been taken over by snakes. During hibernation, populations concentrate as several individuals den together. In warmer habitats, where the hibernation season is shorter and hibernacula more makeshift, fewer individuals congregate. Rattlesnakes are known to be nocturnal hunters, and are less active diurnally

Ernie


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## Terry Small Jr

saltyoldman,

It is something we are ALWAYS on the lookout for. Every time we pick up a pallet, bottom board, lid on the ground, we know there might be a snake under it.

It's not something we become paranoid about, rather it's simply part of the job, being aware of snakes.


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## saltyoldman

WoW Terry!

Operating in Cal would really feed my phobia. I wonder, when you and your beek friends get together, have you ever heard of a beek geting invenomized.
Have you ever heard of any deaths to a beek

You may have almonds, but having to deal with those bad boys will keep me in the north east. 

I really wonder about the guys in florida they have to contend with atleast four types... They must be running into them on a regular basis.


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## Terry Small Jr

I'm thinking that you'd get used to it, like us. We don't think about it too much, we just know to be careful. Never just stick our fingers under something.


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## Natalie

Off topic but just wanted to mention that you look like you lost some more weight.
I remember from a previous thread (after you posted the dance video)that you were working on it so I just wanted to comment that you can really see a difference:thumbsup:


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## Terry Small Jr

Thanks, I've been working on it.


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## Natalie

Way to go, its now easy to do. Kudos


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## Hambone

If you have a snake problem. Just call these guys. 

Snake Noodlers


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## KQ6AR

I think you need a mongoose, or maybe a badger. Let nature take its course.


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## Hambone

Here is on that was killed a couple of weeks ago in West Texas. Measured 7' without the head.


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## MapMan

Derek said:


> Here is on that was killed a couple of weeks ago in West Texas. Measured 7' without the head.


Makes the one Terry is holding look like an earthworm... 

You guys have some nasty critters down there. I think I am quite happy only contending with a tick or two up here. 


MM


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## Tom G. Laury

Man you could make a belt AND a hatband outta that one.


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## DRUR

*Everything is bigger in texas*

Any argument?


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## BEES4U

Now that is a specimen!
What did they use to kill it?
A back hoe. LOL
Some herpitologist would probably like some DNA for research

:scratch: $!5.00/pound X 20 = $300.00
Thank you for the information.
Ernie


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## beebiker

Derek said:


> Here is on that was killed a couple of weeks ago in West Texas. Measured 7' without the head.


 hey derek
next one of those ya find herd it into a u-haul, we have a little bit of a yellowstone wolf problem ( thanks to the federal goverment :dohhere in wyoming that i think one of those seven footers could help us with. 

buck


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## BEES4U

It's interesting how the shadows that are cast in the photo almost makes it look like an optical illusion.
You would think that a snake that size would make a bigger shadow.
The mans right hand does not show up with it's extended finger.
Hummm-- just some thoughts.
I think I will see what kind of shadow comparrison I get with a piece of 4" or 
6" plastic pipe and a 1:00 PM sun
Ernie


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## Josh Carmack

BEES4U said:


> You would think that a snake that size would make a bigger shadow.
> The mans right hand does not show up with it's extended finger.
> 
> Ernie


The shadow is longer and skinnier than the shadow of his legs.
comparing all aspects of this image everything seems in place. Including the fact that because his finger is mostly vertical, the shadow from a sun that is mostly vertical will throw a shadow onto his hand, and not on the ground.

I have considerable experience in evaluating photos and can say this one is either produced by someone with lots and lots of help and computing power or it's legit.


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## Hambone

We caught one at the deer lease last year that was 5'11" on a warm day in November. We see them all the time.


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## Tom G. Laury

*Texas*

Man,...if I'd been born in Texas, maybe I'd have a snake like that too!


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## Hambone

*Tom*

Everything is bigger in Texas .


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## BEES4U

have considerable experience in evaluating photos and can say this one is either produced by someone with lots and lots of help and computing power or it's legit.

Josh,
Thanks for the information.
Now I know why Fluffy and Bambi are missing.
In the late 1990's a dried rattlesnake source marketed in the Los Angeles area made a lot of people sick with Salmonella.
Ernie


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## BEES4U

Here is a very good photo of a Western Diamondback.
Notice the two distinctive white lines on both sides of the eye that angels towards the ground.

http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/animals/enlarge/western-diamond-rattlesnake-coiled_image.html
Enjoy,
Ernie


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## BEES4U

Here is a great photo.
9 feet and 1 inch. 97 pounds

http://www.snopes.com/photos/animals/txsnake.asp
Ernie


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## Hambone

That photo has been going around for a while. The differance is he is holding that snake out front. Same as you do with fish pics. It makes them look much bigger than they are. My pic. He is holding it straight up.


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## Hambone

Hey big Ern. You need to grab that new camera and come here. When the snakes wake up in spring. I have a few guys we can go with while they wrangle them up for the Rattlesnake round up. Bet you could get some pretty good pics.

http://www.rattlesnakeroundup.net/main/modules/page/

Here is another pic of the big boy.


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## loggermike

Yep tom, you will need waders for some of the stuff thats passed off around here as fact !
I've whacked 3 timber rattlers in the beeyards so far this year. It would take a barrel of these to equal that monster from Texas. 
One last year was snapping at my sons boot from under a pallet.Small, but mean.


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## BEES4U

Hey big Ern. You need to grab that new camera and come here
You are right.
What's the best way to get there by road seeing that I have never been to Texas.
Can I bring my pressue cooker to can the critter.
ok, what did you do with him.


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## Tom G. Laury

Hey Mike
Yeh those Timbers, not too long, but big around and BLACK. Dangerous looking. Don't Tread on Me. :thumbsup::applause: Happy Independence Day!


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## Karl

Terry: Really enjoyed your video. Glad to say I don't have the same hazards around my hives that you have. After reading some of the posts I might suggest a "relocation plan to Conn." That might make everyone happy. On the serious side I totally understand your need to keep employees and family safe. K.


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## Hambone

BEES4U said:


> Hey big Ern. You need to grab that new camera and come here
> You are right.
> What's the best way to get there by road seeing that I have never been to Texas.
> Can I bring my pressue cooker to can the critter.
> ok, what did you do with him.


Not sure. I have only flown to Cali. Probably www.aa.com I'll pick ya up.

Fried Rattler is some good eats.


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## BEES4U

7/8/09

We killed the Southern Pacific rattler that became a resident under and near the storage bin. It had 7 rattles plus a button and a critter inside. It was tape measured at 42" which is a large snake for our area.
It had crossed the road and left some nice tracks. I could tell what direction it was traveling by the way it pushed the dirt up on it's turns.
We located the snake about 40' from the road under a stack of old hive covers.
They do like to habitat under avocado bins too.
7/9/09
One of the workers found another snake track in the road not far frome the one that we killed on 7/8/09.

Regards,
Ernie


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## Hambone

Sounds like your in an area with quit a few. Be careful out there. Let them go when you can. Fry up the rest.


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## Charlotte

awwww Poor little guy! He was so cute & cuddly too!!
At my house we follow the three "S" Rule if necessary... 
"Shoot, Shovel & Shut up" 

It's one thing to go out looking for something to kill.... it's another when the something is looking for you! 

Good Luck & Bee Careful!!


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## berkshire bee

A guy got bit the other day by a timber rattlesnake here in Massachusetts. First recorded bite since the 1950s. They say there are only about 200 in the whole state in about 8 locations. Thes guys were doing research and he was taking a picture of one snake and didn't know another one was nearby.


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## honeyman46408

"powernapper" just sent me this pic about a *free* deer lease in NC


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## BEES4U

honeyman46408 said:


> "powernapper" just sent me this pic about a *free* deer lease in NC


It did not post so that we can see the image
Ernie


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