# D.E. Hives from Canada....anyone Northern Beeks have some? Do bees winter better?



## michelle43 (Jan 4, 2012)

Hello....I'm new to beekeeping and so far I have ordered 2 langstrom hives to arrive in the spring along with package bees and Italien queens. I've been doing research and found "The Bee Works" who recommend their hive called a D.E. Hive. It's square instead of rectagular, and is packed full of ventilation, (see below url addresses for specifics).

I live in Vermont so I am interested in two things. First, buying the right hives to give my bees a chance at making it through our crazy winters, and second, purchasing queens from stock that have made it through northern winters.

Can anyone let me know if the DE Hive from the bee works is something that would work to keep the hive dryer from condensation. I am providing a the web address below:

http://www.beeworks.com/d_e_hive.html 

and for detail on it....

http://www.beeworks.com/d_e_details.html

They are marketing it as the only passive ventilation hive in North America. I'd love to hear advice from people who own one or experts in the field of beekeeping.

Also, does anyone know where I can purchase 'northern' queens.

Thanks!


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

everybody is always building a better mousetrap. conventional hives work or otherwise we would not have bees. being cdn it probably expensive with our exchange rate. I would put that money into conventional equip and have an extra hive. good luck


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## michelle43 (Jan 4, 2012)

Hi Beeware,

Do you ventilate any differently for northern hives in the winter? It looks like this DE Hive was built back in the late 80's with hive warmth and ventillation in mind. I wasnt sure if Canadians were using it more than the Langstroth hives. From what I could see on price, they were about the same as the American shops. 

By the way, is your name Beeware because you sell Bee wares, or are you kind of like Consumer Protection for new Beeks???


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

Hi Michelle

I used to work in St J. I grew up in Wheelock.

I have glanced at the D.E. hive in the past and think it is a good idea, it is based on the British hives, only built larger. It is square so that the combs can be oriented "warm way" in the winter. I believe it is top ventilated which I don't like in a Northern climate. 

Every hive has it's pluses and minuses. 

As far as local queens go. Send a message to Micheal Palmer, he may be able to supply them. Oh and there will be a big bee convention in Burlington this August. Hope to see you there.

I am all for buying local, but all bees originated somewhere else at some point. In Vermont very few are more then a few years out of a package from Georgia. As Brother Adam said: "the honey bee cannot be acclimated to a climate, they either live or they die"


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

hi
at the present we take our bees to sc so ventilation does not apply now. however we have wintered bees in upstate ny for years. we have tried drilled holes etc. we found a system used by the davis brothers to be the best. In the fall the top super is slid back just a beespace. this provides the needed ventilation while providing a pocket in the top super to hold heat without it escaping. the davis bros ran over 2500 hives with less than 5% winter loss (pre mites) hard to better that. good bees and lots of honey is the key also. beeware just came from what is on the truck. have a decal on bumper and that helps at weigh stations. they dont seem to like bees like we do.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I'd try a search on DE Hives. They have been discussed. Unfortunately "DE" is too short to search on. So try "David Eyre" and see what comes up.

I ran four of them for several years.

Here's what I like about the DE hive:

o It has good ventilation (but you can use the Langstroth kit to provide
this for your Langstroth hive)

o It has the frames running so you can stand behind it to work it. (but
you can get this in a Langstroth by using the kit)

o It has a system that almost eliminates having to break frames loose.
This keeps the bees calmer, especially when working the brood chamber.
(this you cannot get by using the Langstroth kit)

o It is nice dimensions from the bee's perspective. It's a square box
and has 11 frames that the queens fills out nicely. (this you cannot get
from a standard Langstroth hive)

o The frame design is very light, very strong and very good at keeping
the foundation straight in the frame. I wish I could get such well
designed frames for a Langstroth.

o The DE frames are really light to handle.

o The DE frames are dimensions such that you almost never have to use a
capping scratcher.

o The long end bars are really nice for handling the frames, especially
when you're extracting but also when you're working a hive.


What I don't like about the DE hive:

o My biggest irritation is that it is not a standard size. This is no
end of frustration when you see something really useful, but it won't
work with them. Like a nice triangular bee escape or a top feeder or a
bound queen excluder. I get around it a lot by building things that are
universal. e.g. a bottom board with 1 1/2" edges instead of 3/4" that is
sized long enough for a Lang. I can put either a Langstroth or a DE on
it. I built several adapters and often mix the DE supers and
Langstroths. Also since it's not standard I can't buy stuff already
assembled when I'm short of supers or hives and don't have time to build
them.

o There's this space around the ends of the top bars, that the bees
can't get to when the hive is closed. The purpose is to keep the bees
from propolizing the ends of the bars. My problem with them is the bees
run into them when I have the hive open and I can't get them out. Shades
of the Arizona, they get trapped in there when I put the covers back on
or a super on.

o I did have to modify my extractor to fit them. Maybe some wouldn't but
the top part of the rack was spaced too far, so I had to get three
threaded rods and replace the ones that came with the extractor. Now it
works for either DE's or Langstroths.

o The long end bars (which are so nice to handle) stick down more so you
can't have as much honey in the tank before they hit the honey and bog
down the motor.

o It takes practice to not knock off the little plastic spacers on the
ends of the bars when you're uncapping. It's kind of frustrating to be
looking through a bunch of cappings for missing ones.

As you can see there's more I like than don't, but the big problem is
the non-standard size.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Michael Bush said:


> Unfortunately "DE" is too short to search on.


Nope. Best is to go to the home page (www.beesource.com) and use the search there. Using "de hives" you'll get:

http://www.beesource.com/search-res...+hives&sa=Search&siteurl=www.beesource.com%2F


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Michelle, look around you to the successful beekeepers in your area. I bet none are using Daves D.E. beehive. Plenty of ventilation can be provided using a combination of lower and upper entrances.

The St. Johnsbury Beekeepers are having a meeting at 7:00 pm on Tuesday, January 17. Not sure of location as Heidi hasn't written me with directions. I think they want me to speak about nucs. I can talk to you about wintering bees in Vermont, too if you like.

Also, I got your pm and I do have openings for July/August queens this summer. 

See you in St. J next week?


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## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

The D E hive will provide lots of natural ventilation and would be very usefull for hot, humid climates with warm nites. To work it needs inlet air via a screened bottom board that is open or a wide open bottom entrance.

11 frame brood boxes would be heavy enough.

The extra ventilation is only used in the honey season. Web site talks about inverting the inner cover, opening the top entrance, and adding blue styrofoam above and wrapping the exterior with black paper in deep winter.

Am planning on trying the more ventilation and maybe production will approach the claims. One could readily build a vent box out of 2 x 3" for a few dollars that would fit a conventional Langstroth.


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## mmiller (Jun 17, 2010)

I run the "conversion kits" on all of my Lang hives. I've been happy with the results. Since I made the switch to all of my hives instead of some of them I have no comparison. Mike Bush points out the benefits of the conversions such as: working hive from back of hive, comb running "warm way" and ventilation. I also like being able to use standard equipment for brood boxes and supers. Since I build my own stuff using D.E. designs isn't a problem.

Mike


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## michelle43 (Jan 4, 2012)

HI Mike,

I'd love to meet everyone on the 17th. Can you let me know where they meet once you get the directions please. I've tried to look at the website, but I have trouble using their site for some reason.

Thanks,
Michelle


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## michelle43 (Jan 4, 2012)

Thanks Mike. I think I will order the DE conversion kit for at least one hive and do a comparison and see what the results are. I've had several back surgeries over the years, so any improvement to lessen back strain is really helpful for me.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I had four full DE hives, some extra parts (enough to put together at least one more hive, but never used it all) and several DE conversion kits. In the end I ended up making my own tops, using SBB on half my hives and solids converted to feeders on the rest. I run all eight frame mediums and sold off all my DE equipment. It's fairly expensive for what you are getting. Not David Eyre's fault, as lumber is expensive and manufacturing it is time consuming, but I did not find it worth it. I sold it all off...

This is a lot cheaper and has a top entrance (which provides the vent):
http://www.bushfarms.com/images/Stand1.jpg
http://www.bushfarms.com/beestopentrance.htm


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## The Evil Chip (May 19, 2012)

beeware10 said:


> we found a system used by the davis brothers to be the best. In the fall the top super is slid back just a beespace. this provides the needed ventilation while providing a pocket in the top super to hold heat without it escaping. the davis bros ran over 2500 hives with less than 5% winter loss (pre mites) hard to better that.


Interesting idea. If I understand correctly, you're just shifting the top super back an inch or so: just enough room for bees to get in. Any problems with robbing? Rain leaking in?


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

We had several DE hives sharing space in the bee yard and I was into them several times. Everything Mr. Bush said about them is valid. They are nice frames to work but the collars that space the frames and keep the frame lugs clean of propolis also provide a haven for wax moths and SHB (dont have the latter yet) I also nearly dropped a frame when the top bar slipped out of the collar I was holding it by.

Availability of parts is an issue and the problem of not being able to donate or receive frames etc. with the standard Langstroth would be the game killer for me. The owner I believe is going with langstroth now.

The ventilation options it provides seem well thought out and I have built top and bottom covers that will allow you to get the same effect with langs but it makes a more expensive and bulky cover than any commercial guy would want to mess with.

All that said, the hives are built like a piece of fine furniture; most of my bees have to live in crude shacks by comparison!


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## doc25 (Mar 9, 2007)

I've started to overwinter indoors now. Not a pro like the rest above though. I overwintered indoors last year and did not loose a hive. Year before had almost 100% loss (outdoors). Last winter was not particularly harsh though and I might have had similar results outdoors. All I have seen up here are Langs and from what I can tell 10 frame deeps for everything. I run some 8 and some 10 frame deeps and will probably go back to 10 frame due to the availiability of the 10's. Good luck.


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