# How many queens can one person catch per day?



## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

A good queen breeder can evaluate and cage about 100 queens in a day. With a continuous production cycle based on 21 days, that means he can run about 2500 nucs presuming a loss ratio of 20%. This will work the average guy pretty hard, you are talking about can see to can't see plus a lot of work in the grafting room after dark. The queen breeder I am most familiar with ran an operation where his father built equipment, his brother managed drone production and support colonies, and he ran 2000 nucs.


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## KevinR (Apr 30, 2010)

Thanks for the response. This is the kind of information I'm looking for... Trying to figure out how many I can realistically run...

I'll probably be looking at a ~28 day rotation, running 4 sets of mating nucs.. Grafting every Friday and Planting/Catching on Sundays.


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

KevinR said:


> I realize this open for debate, but I'd like to see some numbers from successful queen breeders on how many queens they can catch per day using mini-mating nucs.
> 
> 48 at 10 minutes per queen? 96 at 5 minutes per? Does it take more or less time on average to find the queen?
> 
> ...


I hate picking queens myself. Most people despise the monotonous nature of the job. I detest it worse than extracting.

Those who are good and fast at QP'ing are worth their weight in queens. 

I have one that regularly comes home with 200 after less than a full day if the take (%)is decent. His 2013 record was 303 queens in one long day on April 6. 

The key to make it happen: Knowing that "piece work" reimbursement intersecting with someone who is highly skilled at catching queens is the only way to fly. Its the best win-win situation we got going down. He comes home happier than a clam from knowing he's done a swell job and I gladly depart with a large pile of funds to keep it all rolling.

To bad the funds earned in those few week of April don't keep on keeping on all year long.


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## KevinR (Apr 30, 2010)

Initially, I imagine that I'll be catching most/all of the queens.... But I'd like to get the point where I can pay someone else to do it... I can see some type of profit sharing/incentive program.

I just want to know that it's "realistic" to catch X queens in a 8-10 hour day. I don't have any problems with sharing the wealth, when the time comes.


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

Shoot for 100 a day. You might get a few less........or a few more. This will not include time for grafting, rebuilding, feeding or putting bait into the traps to keep at bay the critter who love to molest mating nucs.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

From mini nucs, should be a lot more than 100 per day. If you are trying to figure out how many nucs you can run, how many you can catch in a day is the easy part & should not really be the determining factor in how many you can run.

If mating is bad that slows things down a lot, if the time is being taken to balance up the nucs & ensure they are all in good order for the next cell plant. Likewise nucs that have been allowed to build up too much & have bees hanging out the door can slow you down looking for the queen when she runs off the comb & hides among bees somewhere. But things such as making gear, making sure nucs are properly fed, just ensuring all nucs are alive and making full use of your equipment, grafting & messing with cell builders, and a heap of other "incidentals" are where the time goes.


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

Oldtimer said:


> a heap of other "incidentals" are where the time goes.


And that folks is the rest of the story............. 

Thumbs up to OT for picking the ace out of your time laden hands. Its the main reason why most queen operations are not a one man show.


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## frazzledfozzle (May 26, 2010)

I'm with Oldtimer 100%.

picking queens is the easy part of the operation and absolutely no indication of how many nucs you can run.

wealth? I'm not sure there's alot of that going on either shared or not.

I don't know how breeders in the US make money with the pitiful price you all get for your queens


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## Stephenpbird (May 22, 2011)

KevinR I think you might find this Michael Palmers Queen rearing video interesting , link below, catching queens starts at 1,00 hour 55 seconds. Shows how he does it (five people) 128 queens every four days. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7tinVIuBJ8


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## TalonRedding (Jul 19, 2013)

Stephenpbird said:


> KevinR I think you might find this Michael Palmers Queen rearing video interesting , link below, catching queens starts at 1,00 hour 55 seconds. Shows how he does it (five people) 128 queens every four days.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7tinVIuBJ8


You beat me to it.


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## Juhani Lunden (Oct 3, 2013)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boK7I0Z-ppk&feature=c4-overview&list=UUx4KBmolNYQdo1Xqx_9v3Gg

3 min 9 sec this video, one queen, marked and new cell in


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## KevinR (Apr 30, 2010)

Thanks the info, I understand that there is more to it than actually catching the queen. 

But I can make the equipment at night, feeding the nucs won't take long, and I've built quite a few cell builder/finishers. The incidentals should be handled prior or after dealing with the queens/cells. I'm more concerned with the time limits of catching/planting cells. The cells won't wait for me to shake an extra cup of bees into nucs 3, 8, and 12. Unless I get into the practice of using an incubator and planting virgins vs cells. But I suppose that's a different conversation entirely.

I've just never really sat down and caught 100+ queens in a day... The most I've caught in a day was ~24 or so... Unfortunately, I didn't keep good notes, but I think it took around 3-4 hours for me to leisurely do it while inspecting the nucs/hives and running back and forth for cells. I'd obviously get my act together as it takes off. 

I expect my dad to help and I few other volunteers, but I can only really plan on my time at this point. 

I hoping to get much more organized this year and catch/plant 50 a week to start... So I'll see where it goes from there. I just wanted to make sure that was a realistic number.


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## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

A lot depends on if you have help with the balancing, the moving and the feeding. Yea you can catch faster than 100 a day, but can you move frames add bees and make 30 trips to the truck and back any faster?


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## Broke-T (Jul 9, 2008)

Kevin, I run 3 full size medium frames per nuc. My dad and I work as team. We open up hive, he grabs the first frame I grab the second. If queen not on first frame he goes to 3rd. When we find the queen I catch, mark and cage her. Marking only takes a few extra seconds thats why I mark them all at no charge. We can do 100 in a day no problem early on. as the flow stops we have a problem with robbing so have to start early then quit if robbing starts then start back up late evenings. then it might take two days to pull the 100.

It takes more time rebuilding misses and evening thing up than actually catching the queens.

Johnny


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## Gino45 (Apr 6, 2012)

The issue I see here is: is the 'catcher' evaluating the queens and only taking those that appear to be 'viable'. Some turn out to be duds, for sure.

Also, a 28 day rotation seems excessive. Surely 21 days allows several days for that new queen to fill up the available laying space in a nuc sized hive. I believe it was Laidlaw who recommended something nearer to a 2 week to 16 day rotation. But we are talking nucs here.


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## KevinR (Apr 30, 2010)

Some people do 16 day rotations, some do 21+ day rotations, some have them in nucs for much longer...

I'm looking at the grafting on Fridays and catching on Sundays.. So I need to schedule it so that it works for me, so I could catch on the 21st day, but it will probably be between 21-28 days to account for the extra time for weather. Time will tell and I'll adjust it accordingly.

The 16 days... Is that from graft to laying or from cell planting to laying... Depending on the calendars you look at and your weather... 16 days isn't enough time... 10 days from graft to moving the cell, it should emerge by day 11/12, which gives you 4/5 days for her to harden and mate and lay..... I'm sure that's all doable, but seems a little tight, if you have any bad weather... 

If I was trying to "maximize" and squeeze every possible queen from the nuc. I'd probably push closer to the 16 day mark, but for me... I think I'd just carry a spare nuc and pull a frame of brood with the queen, assuming they are over loaded.


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## Gino45 (Apr 6, 2012)

Cells are grated, then put into nucs on 9th or 10th day. So the number of days is strictly referring to the time from when the queen cell is placed until the laying queen is removed.

So given your schedule, 23 days is also a possibility which should be long enough. Again, that 2 week to 16 day schedule probably was created for sunny central California where it 'never rains'. Probably is today though. :shhhh:


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## KevinR (Apr 30, 2010)

Gino45 said:


> probably was created for sunny central California where it 'never rains'.


It depends on the time of day here for your weather.. 

It would probably end up at around 21 day is mark to look for eggs and the 28 day mark to check larva/pattern. Graft on Friday, move cells the following Sunday (day1), check/capture queen on Sunday 21/28 days later.

Using half-frame mediums for mating nucs.. She'll lay them up pretty quick, so I probably wouldn't have to "wait" the full 28 days.. But it will probably work out that way so I can keep my day job and play at being a queen keeper on the weekend. I used mostly 5 frame nucs for the last few years. I'll have to see how much more intervention the bees need in the mini mating nucs... I'm hoping that pulling or adding a frame of brood here/there and applying food is all that's "needed".

If the mini absconds or gets slimed out, it shouldn't be as big as a issue as losing a full 5 frame nuc from a resource standpoint anyway. Have 50 mating nucs made up, need to make another 150 between now spring time.


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## KevinR (Apr 30, 2010)

Broke-T said:


> have a problem with robbing


How many 3 frame nucs do you run in a mating yard? So far, I haven't had a lot of problems with robbing... Hope it continues that way, but I might have to look at integrated robbing screens on the mating nucs.


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## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

Keep mateing yards a long ways from full size hives, and it shouldn't be a problem. Don't forget, you can't cage queens well in inclement weather, or on a cold day.... opening that brood at less than optimal temps will create a lot of other issues.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

If you are just talking about what is possible in large operations with many, nucs and people dedicated to just catching queens, my best information is in the 25 per hour range. Of course, as others have pointed out, lots more jobs are involved in queen production.


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## KevinR (Apr 30, 2010)

At the 25 per hour.. 

Is that single person pulling, finding, catching, and caging with someone else planting cells/equalizing the hives?

I was "thinking" about setting up some type of system to run through the hives pulling all the queens then leaving notes behind... Possibly colored pegs on the stand or something like that... 

i.e. Green peg means pull brood, where white peg means add brood, and yellow for feed. Or painted sides of a brick... Could have 4-6 options with it...

So you could work all the way through the hives then come back and do the heavy lifting just before you plant the cells. But I don't know if that is the most efficient method, but it might speed things up vs hunting and picking for brood to add here and there.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

KevinR said:


> At the 25 per hour..
> 
> Is that single person pulling, finding, catching, and caging with someone else planting cells/equalizing the hives?
> .


Yes, just caging a queen and marking any nucs that are short on bees or feed. Typically another crew comes through the next day doing any needed feeding/boosting and planting cells.


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## Velbert (Mar 19, 2006)

The most I have caged in a good long day was 60 queens and put 6 attendant's in each cage,during this day I would mark some queens that the buyers requested,swapping brood frames,feeding when needed or united mating nuc's or if real strong may do a few divides all in the course of the days catch I do not put in queen cells I will wait till the next day. But on a average day catch is more like 30-40 queens. 

You can catch more per day if you dont put in attendants or mark the queens or do the other things needed.


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