# Southbound 2012



## cg3

Do you net them?


----------



## Adrian Quiney WI

Good luck and a safe trip. Any chance you will post some photos of the nuc operation you were talking about in another thread while you are down there?


----------



## snl

Mark,
Do you band them? I could not tell from the pics........


----------



## sqkcrk

Hives are not banded.
The load will be netted.
I'll try to Post some photos of nuc building if I remember. I hate Dropbox and wish I knew an easy way to get it off of my computer. It makes it hard to find photos when I want to Post them here and other places.


----------



## snl

sqkcrk said:


> Hives are not banded.


Gotta ask CK why he feels the need to band when moving the hives and you do not.......


----------



## sqkcrk

I laod and unload my own hives. I'm slow. I don't send hives to Maine to ther blueberries, where other people might move them. If you send bees to ME they have to be banded. But if they don't have to be banded, if they have been left closed for some period of time, the bees will have the boxes glued together.


----------



## BMAC

snl said:


> Gotta ask CK why he feels the need to band when moving the hives and you do not.......


I have considered banding my boxes to the pallets as well before transporting them anywhere. It sure helps keep lids and boxes on pallets when traveling though that miserable highway in NY and Pa.


----------



## BMAC

Mark I am jealous. I have 4 more yards to collect. Its looking good for me though as the semi driver will be at my place next friday morning to haul mine south. Good luck and have a safe trip.


----------



## sqkcrk

GA, right? Thanks, I hope you have an uneventful trip too.


----------



## BMAC

Yes south Ga. I am actually not heading down to unload them. I worked that out with another beek down there. I will just go down mid december and feed pollen patties and light syrup.


----------



## sqkcrk

Bru or Hack?

Once you start the patties, how often do you go back and put the next one on?


----------



## sqkcrk

View attachment 3528
View attachment 3530
View attachment 3529
View attachment 3531
View attachment 3532

Empty truck to 1/3 full.


----------



## Allen

Mark, which route are you taking thru Pa.?


----------



## sqkcrk

81 Why? You wanna tag along?  We could convoy.


----------



## Allen

I was gonna invite you for lunch and maybe a pallet would "fall" off the flat bed while you were here...


----------



## Mbeck

God speed


----------



## sqkcrk

Allen said:


> I was gonna invite you for lunch and maybe a pallet would "fall" off the flat bed while you were here...


Heh,heh, maybe on my way North. When I head South w/ a load of bees I only stop for fuel and sleep. No time to visit. Thanks for the invite. R U near 81.


----------



## sqkcrk

Mbeck said:


> God speed


Thanks Mbeck, but I don't think I should travel that fast. 65 is fast enough. The trick to making miles is staying in the seat.


----------



## sqkcrk

View attachment 3538
View attachment 3539
View attachment 3540
View attachment 3541

Semi loaded. F-450 loaded. Netted and ready for boards and straps.


----------



## gregstahlman

Mark i am confused as to why you load one layer at a time??


----------



## Allen

LOL, I'm about 45 mins southeast of the I-81 / I-78 junction.
When u head north let me know, maybe we could meet somewhere near there for lunch.


----------



## sqkcrk

I will if I remember. Maybe you can remind me when you see me going North on beesource.

Greg, I put a layer of dbl deeps on the deck and then pick up a stack of two pallets, one pallet dp plus medium and one pallet of dbls. My Bobcat can't pick up three pallets at a time. Besides, the top pallet in a stack of three would be well above the head board of the Bobcat. I'm also on uneven terrain.

If I had a skidsteer w/ a mast then I could load three pallets at a time. How do you load?

Hoping to come home in the Spring w/ more story and a halfs and some singles, on fourway pallets.


----------



## hpm08161947

If you get a chance, take a pic of the boards and straps as they go on the semi.


----------



## timgoodin

Very interesting to watch for us non-migratory types. Certainly a learning experience. Have a safe trip.

Tim Goodin


----------



## Gregg

I was wondering the same thing gs.

I load stacks of 4 pallets high (story & a half) at a time on the truck.


----------



## sqkcrk

What's your machine like? I'll be loading mine 4 high story and a halfs next Spring. At least part of the load. That's the plan.


----------



## Gregg

Hummerbee.

Helps a lot to have a level loading area though. Mine is not the greatest so it is slow going in areas, esecially stacking them up and moving in position to load the truck.


----------



## Mbeck

This might be real close to how he loads them!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fH0W24jHtsY&sns=em


----------



## sqkcrk

I only have one load plus and work by myself, so I go nice and slow. If I had thousands to load I'd do it like GS too. There is an abandond Walmart Parking Lot I have dreamed of using.

Thanks for Posting that Mbeck. Anybody else got one? There must be a Hackenberg Video out there somewhere too.


----------



## gregstahlman

Gotcha guess i didnt notice there was both doubles and 1 1/2 stories on the truck


----------



## sqkcrk

Only 5 degrees warmer in SC than here in NY. Maybe I should stay home? Nah.


----------



## jim lyon

Nah is right. The food is better down south.


----------



## cg3

I wish it was 5 degrees warmer here.


----------



## hpm08161947

jim lyon said:


> Nah is right. The food is better down south.


Yea.. it is good down here... You ever try to order Chittterlings in Vermont?


----------



## sqkcrk

I wouldn't order chittlins anywhere.


----------



## sqkcrk

View attachment 3546
View attachment 3547
View attachment 3548
View attachment 3549

Herb asked about the spreader boards. Here they are.


----------



## swarm_trapper

why dont you use 2x6 instead mark? just wondering.


----------



## sqkcrk

I do on my own truck. Actually they are 2X10s. But, my trucker lost one once, which can be a bad thing. So now he uses the spreaders, as most of the truckers who move bees do these days. The ones I know anyway.

Do you use 2X6s on your semis.


----------



## jim lyon

2x6's are pretty much all I see anymore, sometimes used together with "v" boards though I kind of think that's overkill except for the front and back. The spreaders look like a nice setup but perhaps a bit bulky to haul?


----------



## swarm_trapper

yea i use 2x6 on most of my loads. If its not a tall load ill put a 1x4 running the down the two outside lines, then a 2x6 just where the two pallets meet then you only are using half the straps and boards. Which on a load of four ways pallets is still a lot of straps lol.


----------



## Joel

Hi Mark,
We took our hives to florence last week - they were pulling in Pollen yesterday! I think that means you owe me lunch! 
See you at BBQ in hemmingway in March!!
We do the 81 - 17 - 95 route. I can't imagine I-95 could get much more difficult to travel. It seems no matter what time of year it is always a parking lot! $3.04/gallon for Gas in Florence.


----------



## sqkcrk

swarm_trapper said:


> yea i use 2x6 on most of my loads. If its not a tall load ill put a 1x4 running the down the two outside lines, then a 2x6 just where the two pallets meet then you only are using half the straps and boards. Which on a load of four ways pallets is still a lot of straps lol.


Yeah, all sorts of ways work. My trucker like two close together on the back and then 16 more on up the truck on a load of 17 rows. Overkill, but safer I guess. One friend uses one on the front and one on the back and then every other row, actually over bthe joint between two rows of pallets I think. Good straps and nets and everything stays where it's supposed to.


----------



## sqkcrk

Joel said:


> Hi Mark,
> We took our hives to florence last week - they were pulling in Pollen yesterday! I think that means you owe me lunch!
> See you at BBQ in hemmingway in March!!
> We do the 81 - 17 - 95 route. I can't imagine I-95 could get much more difficult to travel. It seems no matter what time of year it is always a parking lot! $3.04/gallon for Gas in Florence.


So you are back home already? I have another 300 miles to go before I can unload. I stopped for the night at Exit 33, Davis Trk Stp. My trucker is behind me, but says he is going to stop for the night when he gets to NC. I don't know why he wants to get ahead of me. He can't unload them w/out me. 

Heaviest traffic was when I got on 95 at Foul mouth,VA. But by the time I got to the next exit traffic wasn't bad. I think Rt 81 in PA is about the best shape I've ever seen it.


----------



## BMAC

you mean we dont have to dodge 2 foot pot holes on 81 this fall?


----------



## hpm08161947

I imagine you are unloading bees about now, or at least getting the spreaders and netting off. Looks like a nice day to do this as it is certainly cloudy. Although it really is not that cool. See you later on in the week.


----------



## sqkcrk

Unloaded.


----------



## BMAC

Good to hear Mark. When you headed back up this way?


----------



## sqkcrk

Heck, I just got here. 

I don't know. I need to be home by Friday evening, Dec. 7. I wanna look thru them and do some feeding. I still have a bunch to move to other yds. I have a trailer tire to replace after the blowout and I aught to get something to hold my trailer license plate down before it flys off. I'm going to Manning to spend some time w/ another beekeeper.


----------



## BMAC

Im jealous. I don't load up the semi until 14 Dec. Im hoping to NOT need to follow them down that weekend. Maybe head down just after the new year and feed them.


----------



## sqkcrk

Because you can't get away? Why are you waiting until Dec. 14?


----------



## BMAC

Its that full time job I have. I haven't had the opportunity to get all the bees in a central yard yet. I hoping to do that and finish extracting honey this coming weekend. I might still head to Ga and feed them all then. 

This job I have sure gets in the way of being a beekeeper.


----------



## sqkcrk

View attachment 3565
Ready to unload my F-450.
View attachment 3566
Hives from semi ready to move out to other yds.
View attachment 3568
Hives installed in Hyman Camp Yd.
View attachment 3569
Here is Wally, aka iddee, holding up an example of what the bees look like. See da queen?
View attachment 3570


----------



## BMAC

whats the temp today down south?


----------



## sqkcrk

Right now it's 55 degrees. It was cool enouigh this morning to move bees at 10:00.


----------



## cg3

This may be routine for you but I find it interesting.


----------



## timgoodin

Yes, very interesting. Thanks Mark for the "education". What general area of SC have you moved your bees to? I would assume the further south the better as long as there is forage. How does one go about finding a location in the south to move, is it a rental or mutual arrangement or do you own land there? Just curious. With the housing/RE bust right now might be a good time to find a "winter home" with about 10 acres in some nice warm climate for retirement and parking bees for the winter? Thanks again for the thread.

Tim Goodin


----------



## sqkcrk

My bees Winter in the most expensive County in SC in which tro own land, Horry County. Not pronounce whorry, but orry.

I inherited some of my locations and found some others the same way as anywhere else, asking around. I pay yd rent just like at home. Paid in honey.

Yer welcome.


----------



## timgoodin

sqkcrk said:


> My bees Winter in the most expensive County in SC in which tro own land, Horry County. Not pronounce whorry, but orry.
> 
> 
> .


Myrtle Beach...lucky you!


----------



## sqkcrk

No where near Myrtle Beach, just in the same county. Pee Dee swamp. But you are correct.


----------



## wildbranch2007

bees must be in very good shape to have brood coming out of N.Y. at this time of year, I don't normaly see any after Oct. or is that an old queen and she remembered where she was going.:applause:


----------



## sqkcrk

View attachment 3601
A look at the top and two views from the bottom.
View attachment 3597
View attachment 3599
View attachment 3600
The Hardee Yd.


----------



## delber

1-1/4" frames Mark? Are you using "standard" 8 frame boxes or have you made something special? I see 9 frames in 2 of your pictures which is cool. Assuming that you are using 1-1/4" frames or something similar what benefits have you noticed and how is it that being commercial you are able to do it?


----------



## sqkcrk

Those are nine frames in a ten frame box. I haven't noticed anything special. I'm just a beekeeper and don't notice things others seem to. This hive is alive and strong w/ bees and had plenty to eat, but no capped brood. That's what I notice and feel good about. As far as the width of any of those frames, they are probably all slightly different. Seems logical to me.


----------



## delber

I'm sorry Mark I'm not trying to be a pain but honstly have enjoyed this thread!!! I have learned some things from it and want to continue to learn. I haven't seen a picture of a winter cluster like that from the bottom before. If I may ask another question. . . why do you run 9 in a 10 frame box? I am not a commercial guy and I can't even say I'm a sideliner, but would love to be in the future. To be honest, I would like to understand what seems logical to you for my own education.


----------



## WilliamsHoneyBees

Hey Mark, What are you using for lids? 

Thanks
Dan 

PS-Remember to look for those green dotted or blue dotted palmer queens!


----------



## sqkcrk

delber said:


> I'm sorry Mark I'm not trying to be a pain but honstly have enjoyed this thread!!! I have learned some things from it and want to continue to learn. I haven't seen a picture of a winter cluster like that from the bottom before. If I may ask another question. . . why do you run 9 in a 10 frame box? I am not a commercial guy and I can't even say I'm a sideliner, but would love to be in the future. To be honest, I would like to understand what seems logical to you for my own education.


No problem delber. I apologize if my reply came off as though I were bothered. I always l;ike questions.

A number of different reasons I guess. I use feeders in most of my hives, so in those I will have a feeder and 8 frames. Or, if they fit w/out too much trouble, 9. For the boxes w/out feeders I will run 10 frames as long as they fit w/out too much trimming of propolis from the end bars, otherwise 9. Those are my deeps. Sometimes I run out of comb and want to make a split, so I will rob a frame here and a frame there, leaving 9 in a ten frame box. So I end up w/ 9.

All of my mediums were honey supers and they may still get used for honey supers, so they have 9 frames.

I'm not very deep w/ reasons why so much. I just do what needs doing when it needs doing and don't think too much about why. I do spend some time wondering what I should be doing or what I should do next. Then I get my hands and head into the bees and they tell me.

Listen to your bees.


----------



## sqkcrk

prf, I use plywood for the covers, just plywood. I feel like I want to have better covers. We'll see what happens.

I'll keep my eyes pealed for the Palmer Queens. I did get one of yours down here, though I don't know where she is now. Sorry. Not well organized.


----------



## WilliamsHoneyBees

Thanks for the info and the pictures Mark. If I send you any more queens I'll put numbered disks on their backs so you don't loose them! HAHAHA


----------



## sqkcrk

I'll put numbers on the boxes too. lol
View attachment 3602
View attachment 3603
View attachment 3604
View attachment 3605
Four lbs of dry sugar applied this way can help keep a strong colony, light on stores, alive until Mother Nature provides. Call it what you wish, I refer to it as dry sygar feeding.


----------



## Joel

I see Wally, he looks pretty good for an old fart - where's Wayne and what's Wally doing in SC?
Seeing pollen and nectar???


----------



## sqkcrk

Wayne? Wayne who? Have seen no pollen yet.

Wally came down here to see a friend and to visit w/ me too.


----------



## hpm08161947

sqkcrk said:


> Four lbs of dry sugar applied this way can help keep a strong colony, light on stores, alive until Mother Nature provides. Call it what you wish, I refer to it as dry sygar feeding.


Hmm.. I do that too... seems to work "most" of the time. Glad I saw this pic.... it reminds me I need to get out and do this next week.


----------



## sqkcrk

Saw some new pollen in combs today.
View attachment 3607
View attachment 3608
View attachment 3609


----------



## hpm08161947

I see them checking out the "Henbit", which they appear to take when there is nothing else.


----------



## funwithbees

hpm08161947 said:


> Hmm.. I do that too... seems to work "most" of the time. Glad I saw this pic.... it reminds me I need to get out and do this next week.


I really like your SC honey house Mark. Quite quaint!I'm jealous-my winter wrapping isnt done yet! 
Nick


----------



## sqkcrk

Thanks. It is nice down here.


----------



## sqkcrk

View attachment 3651
Not mine, a friends. There are twice that many in the yd. We fed two patties to each hive, unless it was dead, no patty, or weak, one patty. Not very many of either of those. Lots of good bees in his yds.

On the way home I talked w/ a PA bkpr who has lost 2/3s of his 1500 colonies to who knows what. I am hearing such stories from around the States. He mentioned the possibility that the Borders w/ Canada and Mexico might be opened to supply bees to CA Almonds. Anybody else hear stories like that?


----------



## hpm08161947

If you remember from yesterday - you also talked to a NC beekeeper who told you of some huge losses in the area during the past 12 months..... I am beginning to think something is going on - not just normal beekeeper rumors.


----------



## sqkcrk

Yup, forgot to mention that.


----------



## 2dumb

Done (at least for a little while). We finished the last round through the last beeyard for 2012 today. We were already in the South so we didn't have to go Soutbound. We run for honey from fixed locations in NC. Its been an instructive year with more swarms than normal, more queen problems than normal, and less nectar than normal. We are glad to put 2012 in the rear view mirror and are looking forward to putting our paid-for lessons to good use in 2013. Its warm enough to start putting on more pollen sub but I think I am going to leave the bees alone until January 2, 2013. Hunting season is 70% gone and I haven't been once but there's three weeks left in the deer and bear seasons and I plan to start looking for Bambi and Yogi tomorrow.


----------



## beeware10

mark
the week before the nys meeting I talked to hack at the pa meeting. he had lost one third and was still losing hives. he said some guys out west had simular problems. we are a little late going to sc as we had to have a couple of heart stents put in. will have them there before xmas. happy holidays.


----------



## sqkcrk

c u at ABF?


----------



## beeware10

not sure. wish it didnt cost so much. (about 1/3 of a sc trip)


----------



## sqkcrk

I understand.


----------



## cerezha

beeware10 said:


> mark
> the week before the nys meeting I talked to hack at the pa meeting. he had lost one third and was still losing hives. he said some guys out west had simular problems....


 Interesting, I heard from Mark many times on this forum that commercial beekeeping is doing well in US these days. Is this considered normal to lost 30% of the bees in December? Also, a few posts away you, Mark says that you had bunch of the problems in 2012 with bees and happy that this year will end soon. It contradicts to your previous statements that everything is OK with bees. I am sorry - I am too lazy to search for proper links to your controversial posts.


----------



## sqkcrk

Life is complex and veried and it is a good idea to be optomostic.


----------



## cerezha

sqkcrk said:


> Life is complex and veried and it is a good idea to be optomostic.


 I wish everybody on this forum to be happy and successful in coming year! And as Mark stated: "...We are glad to put 2012 in the rear view mirror ...". Russian variety of this: Let's leave everything bad in the past year and bring everything good into New Year! Russians also traditionally wish good health - I wish good health for you and your bees! Russians believe that all wishes become true if you drink champagne and eat caviar...


----------



## sqkcrk

Actually 2dumb wrote that Sergey, not me. 2012 could have been better for me, but I'm still moving forward.

Does champagne and caviar work for nonRussians too?


----------



## 2dumb

In regards to more hive losses than usual here is what we have seen in southeastern NC. 2011/2012 winter was extremely mild. Mite levels were way higher by late June/early July than normal. Those that treated then or a little earlier came out okay. Those that treated later have had some problems. In our case, we normally use Apiguard in February/March and again in July/August. We tried the MAQS on some of our colonies last February. The beeyards we have had problems with were the ones that got the MAQS in February and we were late treating this summer. Apparently we didn't get as good a mite kill as we thought with the MAQS. I suspect that in the end those that are losing more colonies than normal will be able to trace it back directly or indirectly to varroa. Our experience has been that if you control the mites, the nosema, and the hive beetles you have pretty much won the battle. Of course, the problem is getting that all done on a timely basis along with everything else you have to do in the bee business. It makes me think of what a buddy of mine who used to have a cattle operation always says, "Those paid for lessons - the ones you buy, they really stick with you."


----------



## sqkcrk

Had a nice visit w/ a DOT Trooper along Rt 81, for about 45 minutes. No Log Book or Medical Card. I guess he spent all that time finding out whether I needed one or not. Beekeeper Exempt seems to be real I guess.

Sergey,
You questions and what I was hearing from some others are why I started that other Thread about 2012 Losses Already.


----------



## Ian

cerezha said:


> Interesting, I heard from Mark many times . . . . . . I am too lazy to search for proper links to your controversial posts.


??


----------



## Mtn. Bee

Mark,
Thanks for sharing, excellent photos!
Wondering if you use U or W clips on your 4-way pallets? Also wondering if you could use some help for the winter as those photos sure make it look a lot warmer than snowy North Idaho right now!?


----------



## sqkcrk

Ws.

I'm homed in NY now. No snow yet, but no bees either. Got other things to do tho.


----------



## cerezha

sqkcrk said:


> ...Does champagne and caviar work for nonRussians too?


 Absolutely! All my American friends love free caviar and champagne!


----------



## sqkcrk

Where do I get free champagne and caviar?


----------



## cerezha

sqkcrk said:


> Where do I get free champagne and caviar?


 Well, in my house for sure! This year I'll celebrate New Year in Russia, but next year - probably at home with bunch of friends - you are invited!


----------



## BMAC

sqkcrk said:


> Had a nice visit w/ a DOT Trooper along Rt 81, for about 45 minutes. No Log Book or Medical Card. I guess he spent all that time finding out whether I needed one or not. Beekeeper Exempt seems to be real I guess.


was it really a nice visit? 
Where you in Pa?

Nice to hear you didn't get ticketed.


----------



## sqkcrk

It could have been worse for sure. Didn't get any tickets. All the lights worked. Had my extinguisher and triangle reflectors. I didn't need to 45 minute break, but I wasn't really in a hurry to get anywhere. So, all in all, not a bad experience.


----------



## oblib

Sure could have been worse, if it was decided you needed log book then it would have been at least 8hrs out of service even if you eventually won in court on the no log book and no med card tickets.


----------



## beeware10

mark
last last winter I told ya to pick up the small green federal dot book and know what page refers to beekeepers. would have saved ya 40 minutes of trooper education. lol


----------



## sqkcrk

I had that book w/ me. When I thought about it I would have had to have dug it out of wherever it was and thought better of it. Ya never know when someone w/ a gun might think someone else was looking for a gun. Ya never know.

Maybe I should photocopy that passage and hand it to whomever along w/ my license and registration, next time.

He still may have spent the time verifying.


----------



## BMAC

Its nice time to relax and maybe take a quick nap while he was back in his car.


----------



## sqkcrk

Not in my truck. Not good for that at all. lol


----------



## hpm08161947

It is even more stimulating when they stop you with a load of unnetted bees on the back. At least stimulating for the patrolman.....


----------



## scokat

ok, where do i get the small green federal DOT book and what page do I need to mark? Sqkcrk, I thought you didn't have a CDL, why did you need a fire extinguisher and triangle? Because of your DOT numbers?


----------



## sqkcrk

scokat,
I drive a Commercial Vehicle, as defined by NYS, w/ Agricultural Plates. I believe that requires the extinghuisher and triangles. 

Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations Pocketbook by JJ Keller, page 376.


----------



## hpm08161947

scokat said:


> ok, where do i get the small green federal DOT book a


You can get the little green DOT book at most any truck stop... surely at a big one.


----------



## Mtn. Bee

Mark: How does banding those hives together when they are on 4-way pallets with W-clips work for you?
I use U-clips and have been thinking about switching to W-clips on my pallets but have concern about banding them together when they have the space between the boxes, did not want the boxes to slide sideways and open up the boxes!?
Thanks!


----------



## sqkcrk

A. I don't band my boxes together on my pallets.
B. I haven't noticed it to be a problem for friends who do. The boxes aren't rerally that far apart anyway.


----------



## sqkcrk

View attachment 4000
View attachment 4001
View attachment 4002
View attachment 4003
View attachment 4004
View attachment 4005
View attachment 4006
View attachment 4007
View attachment 4008
January Bees


----------



## rkereid

Mark- Those are some good looking clusters for January. I hope mine look that good in early March!

What grade of plywood are those covers? Do they all stay flat? 

It was nice meeting you at ABF.

Richard


----------



## sqkcrk

Pressuretreated. No, they don't all stay flat.

Nice to meet you too.


----------



## 2dumb

Marine grade non-treated plywood will stay flat. It is used to build boats. NOT available at the box stores like Home Depot. Most of the folks at the box stores (and some lumber yards) will have no idea what you are talking about. Relatively expensive. If you shop around you can usually buy it from the same places the box stores do at their price.


----------



## BMAC

You can also find it used/servicable for much less than new.


----------



## Joel

OK Mark - I recognize those boxes - I've told you before not to be in my yards when I'm not there!!!! That hive better bee there when I go down next month other wise I'll know who took it!! I think you need a release to post pictures from my yards! (See you Apri :-} ?

I try really hard not get pulled over but the few times I've been stopped with a trailer load of bees it's always 45 minutes. I always like the opportunity to add 45 minutes onto a 14-16 hour trip with a trailer load of bees. Of course there's always a few bandits that are out under the net if you sit longer than 5 minutes and those PA troopers are so tough they don't even care! Was it PA - That's where I've been stopped every time. Guess I better dig my triangles and extinguishers out of the shop and get them back in the trucks. 

I read a post about un-netted bees - isn't that an automatic ticket?


----------



## sqkcrk

No Joel. I was pulled over in NY, North of Syracuse. The hindmost chain was a little loose. No problems. Never been pulled over in PA.


----------



## snl

Hey Mark,
Isn't it time to start a new post for 2014?


----------



## hpm08161947

snl said:


> Hey Mark,
> Isn't it time to start a new post for 2014?


Sounds like a good idea.


----------



## sqkcrk

Leaving Monday.


----------



## BMAC

Leaving monday? Heck i dont even have all my honey pulled yet. Getting ready to run after another truck load this morning.


----------



## sqkcrk

Get it in gear there Brian. Who's hauling your bees? Speaking of hauling. I gotta get dressed and get out myself. By.


----------



## BMAC

Im gettin it in gear. After much redesign og honey house i finally have a reasonable process. Im not sure who is hauling my bees yet. Possibly me. I just had a 9 foot upper deck put on my gooseneck. 27 usable feet decking now.


----------



## scokat

Im a month behind and I don't know who to blame, brian, ya i'm blaming brian....


----------



## scokat

Oh ya by the way...









DONE...Retired after 30 yrs, free at last, now to collect for 30 years.


----------



## sqkcrk

Congrats. Now you can really get to work. 

See you in East Syracuse Nov 21 and 22?


----------



## BMAC

Yes it is mt fault, but i am good with it. Well atleast half the honey is pulled now


----------



## beemandan

This does beg the question....if you are still pulling honey on November 1.....when do you do your fall mite treatments?


----------



## BMAC

As soon as they hit the ground in south ga.


----------



## funwithbees

we use formic in early august after we pull summer honey and OA as soon as they go broodless sometime between now and Christmas  Its a mad rush to get it all off before it snows.:lookout:
Nick


----------



## jim lyon

I have a pretty good idea how my bees would fare if I waited till December to treat.


----------



## Brian Suchan

jim lyon said:


> I have a pretty good idea how my bees would fare if I waited till December to treat.


Ditto on that as far as treatments go. There musta been some awfully big crops this year with all the beeks still not finished extracting! Heard of lots in the last couple weeks!!!!!


----------



## jim lyon

Brian Suchan said:


> Ditto on that as far as treatments go. There musta been some awfully big crops this year with all the beeks still not finished extracting! Heard of lots in the last couple weeks!!!!!


Ive been predicting for months that a lot of bees out of the Dakotas will suffer some pretty high losses this fall/winter for that very reason.


----------



## Heintz88

i got to experience the effects of late treatments this year. Lots of 5 bees and a queen hives full of honey. It is extremely saddening to see. I agree with Jim. Late treatments are bad bad bad


----------



## Brian Suchan

But dont u think alot of it has to do with ppb and half a$$ed bee outfits?? It amazes me, what have some beeks been doin for the last couple of months? I know stuff goes wrong in the honey house and things come up.


----------



## Brian Suchan

Heintz88 said:


> i got to experience the effects of late treatments this year. Lots of 5 bees and a queen hives full of honey. It is extremely saddening to see. I agree with Jim. Late treatments are bad bad bad


Seen that its sux


----------



## RAK

Were seeing some hives of other beekeepers arriving in our CA holding yards that were on a late buckwheat and rabbet brush flow... they got the treatments going but those hives aren't looking to great.


----------



## BMAC

Brian Suchan said:


> But dont u think alot of it has to do with ppb and half a$$ed bee outfits?? It amazes me, what have some beeks been doin for the last couple of months? I know stuff goes wrong in the honey house and things come up.


you can call my oufit half ***. Your opinion matters none. Past couple of months besides running my bees i had to reconfigure my honey house and i work a regular job monday thru friday. I dont feel like i am terribly neglecting on mite treatment. I treat in april just after splits are made and all is broodless or close and then again in november. I think full treatsments twice a year has been fairly adequate.


----------



## sqkcrk

Brian, I think he meant "half fast".  U r a little behind aren't you? Or is this the normal time of the year for you to be where you are?

I could have had my bees south a cpl wks ago, but after the honey is off and the mite strips are in I like the queens to cut back laying as much as they will and moving them 1,000 miles seems to stimulate brood production again. And I don't really think there is all that much for my bees to forage on in SC this time of year anyway.


----------



## beemandan

jim lyon said:


> I have a pretty good idea how my bees would fare if I waited till December to treat.


Mine too....which is why I asked the question in the first place. No reflection on anyone's beekeeping. Just a curiosity. I was a bit late treating some of mine....into September and they were already showing signs of PMS. And by October most of mine have already cut back brood production significantly.
Good luck getting them all moved.


----------



## clyderoad

Brian Suchan said:


> But dont u think alot of it has to do with ppb and half a$$ed bee outfits?? It amazes me, what have some beeks been doin for the last couple of months? I know stuff goes wrong in the honey house and things come up.


I have bees on a late buckwheat crop now. Treated in August and will wait until this buckwheat honey is pulled to treat again, probably around Thanksgiving. 
Maybe some of these ppb and half a$$ed outfits you mentioned have the same treatment schedule? 
Might be worth it to you to ask them.


----------



## sqkcrk

I planned on starting the loading today at 2, after getting home from Church. But, hey, time change happened. So looking ahead yesterday I loaded the bottom layer on the trailer deck. One third of the doubles and one quarter of the story and a halfs are loaded. We should be able to get everything done before dark. Then my trucker can take the load home w/ him for the night and leave in the morning.


----------



## jim lyon

It's moving week for us as well. The word out of Illinois is that winter is almost upon us.


----------



## beemandan

My apologies. I wasn't trying to hijack the thread. I've started another Fall flow vs mite treatments in the Bee forum. I know things work very differently in other parts of the country and am very curious how it is done.
If you are interested in adding your two cents worth, please do so in that thread. 
Thanks


----------



## snl

sqkcrk said:


> And I don't really think there is all that much for my bees to forage on in SC this time of year anyway.


Nothing, Nada!


----------



## Brian Suchan

Just stirrin the pot. Bmac, like i said i know things come up and out you get under the gun.


----------



## beemandan

Mark, what do you see as the advantage in moving your hives to SC for winter? I understand why someone who was looking to drive a very early season buildup for almonds would want their hives somewhere south but wouldn't yours do just as well hunkered down in NY? Or is it worth it to you for early season nuc production? It seems to me like it'd be a lot of labor, expense and misery to move them back and forth and I'd have to see a substantial payback for it.


----------



## Barry

jim lyon said:


> It's moving week for us as well. The word out of Illinois is that winter is almost upon us.


Scared you, didn't I! I'll bet you don't even own a winter coat.


----------



## MNbees

Yes tons of collapsing bees as far as I have heard. Wonder what that will do for almond rental price? I have lost 1000 colonies so far and im sure ill loose another 400. All i can say is there is always next year. Maybe its nature telling me not to have so many. My treatments were on time for a normal year. This year was not normal what so ever.
The mites really caught up with the bees in July after it rained the entire month of June. All I need is the survivors to survive.
Any how 2 of 6 loads are already in east texas where there is ample pollen coming in and maybe even a little nectar.
Good luck in this volatile business!


----------



## Brian Suchan

MNbees said:


> Yes tons of collapsing bees as far as I have heard. Wonder what that will do for almond rental price? I have lost 1000 colonies so far and im sure ill loose another 400. All i can say is there is always next year. Maybe its nature telling me not to have so many. My treatments were on time for a normal year. This year was not normal what so ever.
> The mites really caught up with the bees in July after it rained the entire month of June. All I need is the survivors to survive.
> Any how 2 of 6 loads are already in east texas where there is ample pollen coming in and maybe even a little nectar.
> Good luck in this volatile business!


Are u attributing loss due 2 varroa? As bad as 2yrs ago?


----------



## sqkcrk

beemandan said:


> Mark, what do you see as the advantage in moving your hives to SC for winter? I understand why someone who was looking to drive a very early season buildup for almonds would want their hives somewhere south but wouldn't yours do just as well hunkered down in NY? Or is it worth it to you for early season nuc production? It seems to me like it'd be a lot of labor, expense and misery to move them back and forth and I'd have to see a substantial payback for it.


"wouldn't yours do just as well hunkered down in NY?" Nope, no mine. Not since the mid 1980s.

My bees go south for an earlier Spring when I can replace deadouts and make nucs for personal use and for sale. I can also do blueberry pollination in NC during March and April and have hives ready for apple pollination in NY in May. Going south is something I have been doing for around 20 years now. Were I someone else I might do things differently, but I'm not.

I'm not sure what you call a substantial payback, but what I get suits me. Might not suit others.


----------



## MNbees

Brian Suchan said:


> Are u attributing loss due 2 varroa? As bad as 2yrs ago?


Yes mostly but the scary part is that im not sure.... Yea about the same as 2 years ago. Poor nutrition also has something to do with it. When you make a good crop the bees seem better. We made a less than average crop and our bees are now less than average. Nature can really put you in your place. I didn't do anything different this year than last, we hardly lost any bees last year and the ones we did were from our own mistakes.
I want to know if areas that produce a good crop consistently also experience the same losses like this.


----------



## beemandan

sqkcrk said:


> I'm not sure what you call a substantial payback, but what I get suits me.


Pretty much all that matters.


----------



## beemandan

MNbees said:


> I want to know if areas that produce a good crop consistently also experience the same losses like this.


Are there areas that produce a good crop consistently? If so, I haven't heard about them.


----------



## sqkcrk

2014 Southbound load loaded, netted, spread boarded, and strapped. Now all I need is a driver and tractor. 

Dept. approx. 8AM tomorrow morning. Arr. Aynor,SC sometime Tues. PM. Barring any unforeseen circumstances.


----------



## BMAC

B


sqkcrk said:


> Brian, I think he meant "half fast".  U r a little behind aren't you? Or is this the normal time of the year for you to be where you are?
> 
> I could have had my bees south a cpl wks ago, but after the honey is off and the mite strips are in I like the queens to cut back laying as much as they will and moving them 1,000 miles seems to stimulate brood production again. And I don't really think there is all that much for my bees to forage on in SC this time of year anyway.


it is terribly late for me this year. Life has that way sometimes. Normally i start pulling early sept and treat as i pull. Not 2014


----------



## BMAC

Brian Suchan said:


> Just stirrin the pot. Bmac, like i said i know things come up and out you get under the gun.


. Life does happen. I spent this morning pulling a yard out of 3 inches of snow. Hopefully all bee will be south within next 14 days.


----------



## Brian Suchan

Best of luck 2 u get er done. I apoligize for my earlier comment.


----------



## BMAC

Apology not needed, i was not offended. It is late in the year and i offered a small glimpse into my life. However thank you for being considerate to apologize.

Everything takes time and i am just behind the times. Sometimes even having hired help dont get you out of that rut until its done for the year. Nice part is the process is finally set so that as extracting is being done the boxes are prepped for spring splits.


----------



## sqkcrk

Left for SC Monday morning just past 8 AM, arrived Falmouth,VA about 7 PM, dept Falmouth about 7 AM and arrived at The Pines Yd at about 3:30 PM. The semi arrived about a half hour later. Got the bees on the ground and went off to the motel and dinner, leaving Ken and his truck out in a field out in the country for the night. Right where he wants to be, even though I offered him dinner.

We did have a bit of a mild scare around 2:00 PM. Ken called me saying the scale house said he was over weight on his drive axles by 900 lbs. "No way. My gauges say I'm fine. Light if anything." So they told him to adjust his 5th Wheel and drive across the scales again. Which he said would put more weight up front. So he did and they gave him the green light. Which was good because I didn't want to drive back 150 miles and take 4 or 6 pallets off the front of his load, especially since I didn't have any nets to cover them were they on my truck.

We figure the scale house workers needed to show somebody they were working or else they were just messin' w/Ken for kicks. Throwin' their weight around.


----------



## sqkcrk

Got the bees on the ground and spread out to two other locations. Marshall and I went to Manning, SC and got 440 protein patties from a friend of mine who buys them by the pallet. Then we went back and went thru the double deeps, putting two patties each between the deeps. I don't know when I have ever seen my hives this consistently full of bees and heavy w/ honey. Only a small number could use feeding syrup.

Today we ran back to Manning a got 200 gallons of HFCS and 260 more protein patties and then returned to go thru our story and a half hives. For the most part they are strong w/ bees and heavy w/honey. We put one patty on these hives and filled the feeders w/syrup. Though there were some hives w/out feeders which are very heavy, so I didn't feel bad about not feeding them syrup.

This is going to be a good Winter in SC this year. Marshall and I will be back in about three weeks to go thru the hives again and throw on another patty and fill the feeders again. Right after Thanksgiving.

If you want to see pictures check out photo album "Southbound 2014" on my Facebook page. 

www.facebook.com/mark.berninghausen/media_set?set=a.10204288346743353.1073741864.1069161207&type=3


----------



## RAK

sqkcrk said:


> If you want to see pictures check out photo album "Southbound 2014".


Thanks for adding link!


----------



## snl

Hi Mark,
Question, why are you placing protein patties on this early in the year? 

Larry


----------



## sqkcrk

Is it early? To fatten up any new bees.


----------



## beeware10

snl
when we move bees south they always brood up due to the move. what mark is doing is probably good as he is giving extra protein as they rear new bees.


----------



## sqkcrk

Does anyone want to present an opinion or have any direct knowledge to share on the effects of a strong and heavy hive w/2 protein patties applied to it this time of year, after a 1,000 mile move? 

I didn't feed any syrup to the two story colonies. They seemed plenty heavy enough for now, and maybe even through to March. I did give the story and a halfs a gallon of HFCS 55 and one Mann Lake BeePro Patty.


----------



## snl

sqkcrk said:


> Is it early? To fatten up any new bees.


I don't know. It was my understanding that as the hives were going broodless during the winter, there was no need for protein, just carbs. In SC, I've not provided patties until around mid January


----------



## beeware10

I'm sure randy oliver would be proud of mark.


----------



## RAK

sqkcrk said:


> Is it early? To fatten up any new bees.


It's not early and not late either. I like to have pollen sub on end of august and add new sub every month till January. Mark, do you give small amount of sub due to shb?


----------



## delber

My mom who lives in NC said a few years back that deadnettle is always blooming down there. If this is the case they're bringing in pollen anyway. I know my hives bring in pollen about every day that's over about 55 here. Today it just reached 55 and there were bees loaded with pollen. Where are they getting it? I have no idea. It seems to me that the "extra", as long as there's enough stores in the hive can only serve to help from my VERY little experience and have never had bees down there. I am curious though to find out if SHB are an issue with it down there. With the warmer climate it does make sense that they'd be a problem.


----------



## papar

If the hives start raising more brood as a result of the patties, Marks hives sound like they have plenty of honey to feed that brood. Sounds like a solid plan. 
I've always added pollen patties and feed in late Jan but last year I skipped the pollen patties and just fed fondant. I noticed in previous years that the hives that didn't take the pollen had queen issues, almost in every case. Also, those hives would have beetles in that pollen patty. I'm not sure if I'll use pollen sub this year, if I do I might find a way to mix dry sub into the fondant patty.


----------



## hpm08161947

Mark's bees have probably been relatively pollenless since sometime in Sept, arriving here they were also broodless. WIth our avg temp of about 70 degrees I suspect they are producing ;brood again..... they are gonna want some protein.... hence the patties. Too cool for SHB to be a real problem.

Mark is bot the only upstate NYer down here following this practice. I suspect they have learned something from experience.


----------



## sqkcrk

beeware10 said:


> I'm sure randy oliver would be proud of mark.


Well I don't know about that. But thanks.


----------



## sqkcrk

snl said:


> I don't know. It was my understanding that as the hives were going broodless during the winter, there was no need for protein, just carbs. In SC, I've not provided patties until around mid January


So what is our friend who I got the patties from doing w/them. He isn't storing them until January, is he? Though I am not really building them up for Almonds.


----------



## sqkcrk

RAK said:


> It's not early and not late either. I like to have pollen sub on end of august and add new sub every month till January. Mark, do you give small amount of sub due to shb?


No, I expect that SHB won't be a problem, from past experience. I expect the patties to be gone in three weeks or less.


----------



## sqkcrk

hpm08161947 said:


> Mark is bot the only upstate NYer down here following this practice. I suspect they have learned something from experience.


What I am doing is somewhat experimental on my part. Following some practices of beekeepers close at hand (CK) and far away (Keith Jarret). I have seen Keith putting huge chunks of his protein mix on hives and saying that one 1 pound patty is just teasing the bees, so I wanted to see what 2 patties would do. And I have bees in the hives to eat them this year. And they are heavy w/honey too. Had I found weaker colonies in my hives I would have fed only one patty per double, instead of two.

We'll see what happens and hopefully I haven't shot myself in the foot or wasted money. Hope fully I will have a majority of really strong hives come Spring from which I can replace loss, fill up 20 currently empty pallets, fill up 100 five frame nucs, draw foundation, and have strong bees going North come Spring. "Lord willin' and the crik don't rise."


----------



## beemandan

I wouldn't dream of doing that here (pollen patties) any time of year. In the 'old days', in early spring I would check hives for stored pollen. Any that were low to empty would get a sub. As shb became common I stopped. Any pollen subs added, within a few days would become a mass of shb larvae. I'm sure your situation is much different Mark but for anyone south...I'd advise regular visits to hives that have been fed subs.


----------



## snl

sqkcrk said:


> What I am doing is somewhat experimental on my part. Following some practices of beekeepers close at hand (CK) and far away (Keith Jarret).


I "hear" you Mark, but CK and KJ are building there hives for shipment to CA for Almonds....Hope it all works out and if it does, maybe I'll follow your practices!


----------



## hpm08161947

beemandan said:


> I wouldn't dream of doing that here (pollen patties) any time of year. In the 'old days', in early spring I would check hives for stored pollen. Any that were low to empty would get a sub. As shb became common I stopped. Any pollen subs added, within a few days would become a mass of shb larvae. I'm sure your situation is much different Mark but for anyone south...I'd advise regular visits to hives that have been fed subs.


No I would not do it either, but my bees are not making brood nor are they pollen starved. His colonies will soon be much more populous than mine.... and should consume a patty pretty fast....or so I suspect.


----------



## sqkcrk

I'll be checking them again in about three weeks. I don't expect any SHB on patties placed between supers in the middle of the cluster, but would not be surprised to find some in the ones that are on top of the top box. But I hope not.


----------



## snl

sqkcrk said:


> I don't expect any SHB on patties placed between supers in the middle of the cluster,


SHB overwinter within the cluster, so maybe that would be the first place to look when you get back in three weeks.


----------



## sqkcrk

Okay


----------



## beemandan

I figure that your bees come out of NY with very few shb. I was only pointing out the problem for readers who keep bees in the south year round and may have some big populations of them this time of year. They might want to think twice before trying your experiment.


----------



## sqkcrk

That's for sure. I doubt I would do this w/hives that stay in the south.


----------



## snl

So Mark, you gonna start a new thread for 2015?


----------



## sqkcrk

Should I?


----------



## snl

Sure, it's fun........


----------



## sqkcrk

Okay. 

I started pulling my hives into the home yard recently. Gathered two yds today before the rains came. I have a semi lined up to haul hives south in two weeks. I'll be down south for just a short time. Just long enough to unload and spread my hives and unload hives for Lynn Barton.


----------



## snl

Maybe start an new thread with a new title???


----------



## hpm08161947

snl said:


> Maybe start an new thread with a new title???


Yup... start a new thread.... Southbound 2015. I agree with SNL.... it's fun. Your adventures are interesting.


----------



## delber

be sure to link it here though.


----------



## sqkcrk

Okay. Keep you eye out for "sqkcrk goes south for the 2015-16 Winter".


----------



## snl

Come on Mark, get with it. We're waiting for this year's posts!!


----------

