# Nadire another box?



## maynard (Jul 7, 2014)

Weed whack would be fine. If you're nervous about that, you could use hand trimmers.

This is my first year with Warres, so take my advice with a grain of salt, but..

Can you tell how drawn out the 3rd box is? Maybe shine a light up into the bottom, or if you have a friend, lift and have them look, or have them lift, and you look.
2 boxes full of honey will weigh about 60lbs, so you can even kind of get an indication about the fullness of the comb, by how easy the boxes are to lift.
I would add when they are about half full on the bottom box. 

That being said, If the colony is strong enough, I don't believe there is any harm in nadiring a box early (unless SHB could be a problem, we don't have them here), the hive will be easier to lift, and you can always take it off later. 

Another thing to think about is if you add a box, and they only fill it half way, what are you going to do? Beekeeping for All seems to suggest that leaving on a half full box in Autumn is less than ideal.

So basically, judge how full your boxes are, take a guess at how much of the season you have left, nadir according to your best guesses, and be prepared to change your plan if you guessed wrong.


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## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)

Wouldn't nadir another one. In their first year they basicly build the broodnest and the broodnest does need only two boxes. The third usually is drawn partially only. Remove that partially drawn box in late autumn. The bees will leave it when clustering after the first cold nights. Tuck away that box, well ventilated and treat against wax moths. I suggest B401. 

Use that box for supering or nadiring next spring. But do not nadir it until the first strong nectar flow.

Make sure the hive has enough stores for winter. Your hive should weigh (without roof) about 35 kg or 77 lbs at the end of August.

Also inspecting the hive on a regular basis doesn't harm too much. Once in a month is a good way to keep the boxes movable. Take the hive apart instead of lifting it. Flip the single boxes over or on it's side to inspect from below. Just as you do in a skep. You can put them on a table for easy working.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

"Nadire"? Huh? Where is my dictionary?


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## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

Nadire, honey is that you?


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## Bees of SC (Apr 12, 2013)

New word for me. What does NADIRE have to do with bee keeping, I am learning too.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

"Unsafe At Any Speed"?

No, really. What is nadireing?


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## maynard (Jul 7, 2014)

To nadir a hive is to add a box to the bottom of a stack. 

Opposite of supering.


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## Bees of SC (Apr 12, 2013)

Thanks, now I have started my day with a new word, its a good day:applause:


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## maynard (Jul 7, 2014)

na·dir (ndr, -dîr)
n.
1. Astronomy A point on the celestial sphere directly below the observer, diametrically opposite the zenith.
2. The lowest point: the nadir of their fortunes.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

maynard said:


> To nadir a hive is to add a box to the bottom of a stack.
> 
> Opposite of supering.


Cool. I never knew there was a word for under supering. Thanks.


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## maynard (Jul 7, 2014)

BernhardHeuvel said:


> Wouldn't nadir another one. In their first year they basicly build the broodnest and the broodnest does need only two boxes. The third usually is drawn partially only. Remove that partially drawn box in late autumn. The bees will leave it when clustering after the first cold nights. Tuck away that box, well ventilated and treat against wax moths. I suggest B401.
> 
> Use that box for supering or nadiring next spring. But do not nadir it until the first strong nectar flow.
> 
> ...


Admittedly this is my first year with warres, and you have much more experience than me, but I'd respectfully disagree. Out of my 3 warre hives, 2 are working on drawing out their 4th box, while only 1 seems to be content to stay in two, even though it has a 3rd available to it. I'd think that in good areas leaving a colony in two boxes all year the first year would be asking for swarms.


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## Bees of SC (Apr 12, 2013)

--Nadire--Does that mean put the empty on the bottom?


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

>In their first year they basicly build the broodnest and the broodnest does need only two boxes

Our first Warre last year filled five boxes, three full with honey. This year a large swarm filled three boxes in six weeks and swarmed.


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## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)

Right, it depends on local conditions. Tim from Australia reports four boxes drawn in two weeks. Also here in Europe we winter on two Warré boxes. Heared that this isn't enough in the far North where three boxes are needed to winter the bees on Warrés. So keeping that in mind, two boxes in the first year is pretty much the standard in most areas. (Fully drawn boxes that is.)


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## squirrel (Nov 24, 2013)

It sure seems like they're really going for it. The vibration on the hive has intensified, though so has the outside temperature, so I guess that's probably why...more cooling. I don't want to short them but I don't want to give them too much. I will look in there tonight after work with a flashlight and see how the 3rd box is doing.


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## maynard (Jul 7, 2014)

If you can't see, I agree with Bernhard, that separating the boxes isn't really a big deal. If the hive is heavy or my wife isn't with me, I do like he says, and flip a box on it's side, being careful to keep the comb vertical. If it's fairly light, and she's with me, it's a lot quicker and easier for me to just lift a couple of boxes while she looks up from below, and runs the smoker.


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## squirrel (Nov 24, 2013)

Yes, I just saw a blog on doing that. And love the fact that I could do it pretty much by myself without lifting the whole stack. Will put some pallets down for a table. Husband about had a hernia lifting the first two boxes for me while I added the third, they were definitely heavy. Thanks for the advice.


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## maynard (Jul 7, 2014)

squirrel said:


> Husband about had a hernia lifting the first two boxes.... Thanks for the advice.


Yeah, mine were still pretty light when I added the third, box, so I took my 12 year old son out with me to add the 4th. When I picked up the 3 boxes, I started grunting hurry. Hurry! HURRRRRRYYYYYY! 

I had him look at the bottom of the third box, and they were packed full. Not so light that time.


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## squirrel (Nov 24, 2013)

Haha, it's hard to work fast under pressure! I was hoping I had all the bars straight, but he had to put it down...so that's another thing. I did the best I could under the conditions, and think I got them pretty straight.


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## Houstonbees (Jul 7, 2014)

Google Warre bee hive lift. What a joy to have and use. Slows things down considerably and makes it easier to work your hive(s).


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## squirrel (Nov 24, 2013)

Houstonbees said:


> Google Warre bee hive lift. What a joy to have and use. Slows things down considerably and makes it easier to work your hive(s).


That is a beautiful thing.


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## squirrel (Nov 24, 2013)

http://warre.biobees.com/lift.htm

Here are plans for that lift.


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## maynard (Jul 7, 2014)

My warres are at an out yard on a terrace. No chance of getting a hive lift up there. Much less transporting that in my jeep with the wife/kids. If I had a bunch at home, I'd probably go that route.

As far as keeping the bars straight. I space them correctly, then tack them down with a small brad and a hand-held brad driver. Then you can just pick up a box and stick it under with out messing about with the bars at all.


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## squirrel (Nov 24, 2013)

I've heard of that method. Guess the brads wouldn't be any harder to pry off than the propolis eh?


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## maynard (Jul 7, 2014)

squirrel said:


> I've heard of that method. Guess the brads wouldn't be any harder to pry off than the propolis eh?


Nope. Piece of cake. I know because I totally messed up the spacing on one and had to pull them out a couple of different times.


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## squirrel (Nov 24, 2013)

http://www.beethinking.com/collections/tools-and-accessories/products/warre-bar-spacing-tool

I got one of these. It's a little pricey, but way cool. Two would be better, then you can space both sides at the same time. I am definitely going to get another one. It was a great help. 
Also it seconds as a viscous weapon and if you're ever getting mugged while you're beekeeping it would be very helpful.


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## maynard (Jul 7, 2014)

This is how I do it:

http://teakwoodorganics.magix.net/album/all-albums/!/oa/7048821/


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