# I don't get it



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I am quite certain they cannot steal larvae from another hive. Brood will be entirely hidden as they are warming it. Eggs can be both more fragile and more sturdy than you think. They may have hatched. They will not cap a queen cell with nothing inside. A hopelessly queenless hive will, however, cap a drone larvae in a queen cell.


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## robherc (Mar 17, 2012)

Michael Bush said:


> A hopelessly queenless hive will, however, cap a drone larvae in a queen cell.


OK, now THAT is absolutely NOT what I wanted to hear...lol here's to hoping I'm not going to discover a jumbo drone in there in a week or two! :doh:


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## RAK (May 2, 2010)

The drone king will never make it...


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

They will uncap the drone "king" before he emerges and dispose of him. But that doesn't mean you don't have a queen in the cell. They still have to have an egg. The question is what kind of egg? A fertilized one will produce a queen. They obviously had something laying an egg somewhere or there wouldn't be a cell.


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## robherc (Mar 17, 2012)

yeah, I'm going to stay hopeful that they somehow incubated one of the old eggs...'cuz I'm betting the alternative is drone from a laying worker, I highly doubt I squished the queen after she laid <100-200 eggs, the odds just don't support that theory.

...maybe I'll be nosy & take my brush with me tomorrow...brush the bees off the comb near it & see if I can find any other brood. Might be informative as tho what's most likely in the cell...still seems pretty weird any way you cut it.


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## doc25 (Mar 9, 2007)

Is there a queen in the hive?


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## robherc (Mar 17, 2012)

not sure, that's why I was checking for brood...was twilight though, so queen hunting would've been nearly impossible


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## robherc (Mar 17, 2012)

*Update*

Ok, I went in today (and made sure to have my cell phone WITH ME to take pictures with) to see what was going on with this cell...
First off, it's NOT capped, I just hadn't seen the open bottom of it for the dark & all the bees massing on it.
Second, there are tons of eggs EVERYWHERE in the combs...some of them are even 10-15 eggs/cell, scattered all over the bottom of the cell, while others, in even newer cells, are only 1 per cell, perfectly centered in the bottom of the cell (like I'd expect from a queen). I'm guessing that the multitude of eggs in a few of the cells are just because the queen's trying to lay for the flow, but the small # of workers I have haven't drawn enough comb for her to lay in yet?
Also, I'm kinda wondering why the cell is single & high on the frame, like a supercedure cell, if the queen's being so prolific as to lay that many eggs in single cells? ... How insane would it be for me to try to find the queen & move her to a mating nuc with a few hundred bees, to try to start a new colony with her once this cell's capped?


Anywise, here are a few pics from today's inspection for everyone to enjoy:
(all pictures taken with my BlackBerry Bold 9700)

Drones hanging out on the top bars -- -- Straight, but weird-shaped comb -- -- Queen cell on a similarly shaped comb



Closeup of cells with eggs -- -- "Bee's Eye View" of queen cell -- -- Cute shot of flying workers . .​


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## franktrujillo (Jan 22, 2009)

*Re: Update*

add a frame of larvae and eggs as soon as you can this will ensure the survival of that hive...


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

*Re: Update*

Just a tip.
When I have bees in the way, & want to see whats under them. I just blow on the bees, & they move.


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## robherc (Mar 17, 2012)

*Re: Update*

franktrujillo-
That'd be my first reaction too...except this is my only surviving hive at the moment; if I get another swarm/cut-out call anytime soon I'll be sure to give some eggs to this hive.

KQ6AR-
I tried blowing on them, but doesn't work well through my veil, and, seeing as I'm somewhat allergic to stings, I don't have the guts to handle them without at least THAT much protection. ... So I usually use the softest "chip brush" I can find...have several laying around, but almost always seem to forget them when I need them most. Second option I tend to use is my finger (when probing through a cluster trying to spot the queen), and third is shaking; for the pics today, I gently tapped the top bars on their ledges twice, so about 1/2-2/3 of the bees fell off; gave me enough room to see what was going on w/o too much risk of damaging any larvae.


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## HigB (Apr 13, 2012)

*Re: Update*



KQ6AR said:


> Just a tip.
> When I have bees in the way, & want to see whats under them. I just blow on the bees, & they move.


That's a good way to get stung on the lip...:banana:

See...


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## robherc (Mar 17, 2012)

*Re: Update*

So has anyone else caught a swarm whose queen layed multiple eggs per cell on them? I have a hard time believing that this could be a laying worker issue, as it's only been 20 days since I collected this swarm... any insight would be nice


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## Keth Comollo (Nov 4, 2011)

*Re: Update*

Do you have any other bars with drawn comb on them? Might want to drop them in this hive to give the queen more places to lay. Just a thought.


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## JD's Bees (Nov 25, 2011)

*Re: Update*

In the upper right corner of the top photo with comb it looks like a queen on the small clump of bees. I don't see any eggs in the photos though.
A good queen with a small amount of bees will lay multiple eggs in cells.


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## RAK (May 2, 2010)

*Re: Update*

Last spring a swarm landed into my 8 frame trap and 6 days later I checked the frames and they had up to 15 eggs. Right away I knew its laying worker because queens cannot lay that many eggs. So I took the box and brushed the bees 300 yards from the location. Except Don't just dump them in a pile or else they will stay in a clump around the laying workers due to the pheromones. You have to shake them off in various spots a few feet apart. I took the empty box back to its location and put in a two frame nuc with queen. Hour later the nuc turned into a nice 8 framer. You most likely have laying workers. I have never seen a queen coexist with laying workers that layed up to 15 eggs.


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## robherc (Mar 17, 2012)

*Re: Update*

RAK-
I have eggs dead centered in the bottom of new cells, in addition to multiples per cell...never heard of laying workers managing that yet. Also, I've never heard (before your post) of a swarm with laying workers & no queen...you sure you didn't squish a queen there? Third point against LW, several of the queen breeders who use 2-frame mating nucs report having 7-15 eggs per cell when a queen runs out of room to lay. That said, I'm not sure I DON'T have laying workers, just definitely not convinced that I DO yet.

JD's Bees-
Where's that queen? I looked at the pic I thought you meant, but can't see any queen in that cluster. inch: As far as the eggs, try looking in the 4th pic, in the two rows of 4 cells that you can see clearly w/o bees. The seond cell (from the left) in the top of those two rows has a nice, centered, single egg in it; cells 3 & 4 in that row are littered with eggs (though, with the lighting, it's hard to see in the pic).

Keth-
Yeah, I just scrounged up the last little fragments of usable comb I could find around the house...gonna wax them onto a couple bars & try installing them in this brood nest when I head out there tomorrow (assuming the T-storms let up enough).


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## Claudia80 (Aug 19, 2010)

*Re: Update*

Isnt it possible you had caught a afterswarm with a virgin queen and shes just now mated and starting to lay? Maybe in a few days she will start laying properly. I would give her time before deciding to do a shakeout.


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## doc25 (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Update*

Well at this point what can you do? Give them as much comb as possible and feed them. At some point you will figure it out! Let us know then. I've had a queen lay on started foundation then keep laying on bare foundation waiting for the workers to catch up so who knows? Keep us posted on this though. I blow on the bees through my veil also and they move. Less disturbing than the brush and easier to do while holding the frame with two hands.


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