# Mean bees



## Teal (Jan 30, 2014)

Ooooh, I _really_ want to come see your bees then! Are you working them already?


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## scorpionmain (Apr 17, 2012)

Use smoke?


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## JStinson (Mar 30, 2013)

I have the same question as scorpionmain. Do you use smoke?

Also, how's the weather? How often are you in the hives? Is there an animal bothering them at night? 

Lots of things can make docile bees chew your face when you check on them.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Looks like you got the meanest bees around. Wouldn't it bee better if you could have both? Say docile and big honey
producer at the same time. I'm glad that my bees are still gentle to me. Maybe they are too busy collecting pollen and nectar today to just ignore me. It is well worth it to have the gentlest bees around even though they don't produce much honey. It all depends on the forage around.


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## brettj777 (Feb 27, 2013)

if they are out of California you could potentially have some Africanized traits. one of the benefits of Africanized is they make honey like nobody's business but I would not want to keep such a hot hive and I would consider requeening


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## jredburn (Feb 25, 2012)

If you wear a suit with gloves and a hood, how do you get stung?
When you pop the lid, try spraying sugar water over the top of the frames as the bees come up. They don't fly well when their wings are wet.
If that doesn't work try covering the top of the hive with a plastic sheet that is just larger the the box. Put weights on two opposite ends and let them hang over the sides. Move it just enough to get a frame out and then cover the box back up.
Just because they are aggressive does not mean they are African. We have had agressive bees since Langstogh wrote about them in 1850. 
See <http://www.beesource.com/point-of-view/andy-nachbaur/bees-with-an-attitude/>


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## tsmullins (Feb 17, 2011)

pioneerboy said:


> My bees are Carolinians from a package bee producer in northern california. They are always heavy tempered, i try to work them slow and gentle, but they still just crazy! they sting me atleast 15 times everytime i work them, and literally cover my veil in a wall of bees, even if its only a 5 minute inspection. T


The Carniolans I had were some of the calmest, gentlest bees I have been around. Maybe they requeened themselves or maybe they are not pure Carniolan bees. 

Shane


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## High-On-Burlap (May 6, 2013)

brettj777 said:


> if they are out of California you could potentially have some Africanized traits.


Southern California has Africanized bee, but except for the occasional hive brought in from elsewhere Northern California's breeders are African free.


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## Heintz88 (Feb 26, 2012)

Use smoke. Stop squishing bees when you manipulate frames. They don't like that.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

Life is too short to put up with bees that defensive. I have two in mind that will be broken down into nucs in May. Both good producers, but I just like to calmly work unprotected when I can. Lots of good productive queens that have daughters with no attitude.


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## pioneerboy (Feb 15, 2013)

I do use smoke, I only wear a veil.. No gloves or javket(it's too hot), I go in about every 10-12 days.. They are not disturbed by animals to my knowing, and no I'm just giving them some feed right now( not really going into the hive as it's still way to cold)


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## pioneerboy (Feb 15, 2013)

Lucky for me is that this one hive is in the middle of alfalfa fields so I don't really have to worry about other people getting stung


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## McBee7 (Dec 25, 2013)

Here's a u-tube video of a hot hive by "The Ohio Country Boy" 

http://youtu.be/DmmtjFgdqz8

Lots of good info and technics used here..

==McBee7==


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

dup


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Yes, but you have to worry when they sting you on a hive inspection.
If you don't take care of this issue now this hive will keep on growing and throwing off its aggressive 
daughters when they swarm into the nearby trees (asm.) Not fun dealing with big aggressive colony,
It is not fun to put aggressive trait into the open for your non aggressive daughters if you do your
own queen rearing locally. Have you seen the experimental aggressive Africanized bees got escaped into 
the jungle and spread thru out. Do a you tube search on aggressive bees and you will see that it takes
lots of hive boxes to split them. And the poor beekeeper has to come back in another day to finish the job.


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## Calbears94 (Jan 24, 2014)

I have carniolans too and they have major attitude so I am starting to see each hive is unique.... My second hive is major producers and no where as near as aggressive....


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## red (Jan 15, 2013)

I ended up with some pretty hot hives from a northern Cali. package dealer last year. I hope i'm around to watch the final grading in the almonds. They won't have to count frames as the whole top box will be in there face as soon as they crack the lid. P.S. The broker has been worned and the boxes are marked.


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

McBee7 said:


> Here's a u-tube video of a hot hive by "The Ohio Country Boy"
> 
> http://youtu.be/DmmtjFgdqz8
> 
> ...


Those are some hot hot mamma's WOW! Good to see someone is still raising some good Queens from the yellow Russian line.... Ouch... That there folks is the reason we no longer raise or sell Russian queens....


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

My life was too good with teddy bear carniolans so I went Italian and I have a couple Mama Mia's. I am ending them in May! Good frames of brood for nucs.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Vance, in my area there are more drones with the Carni genetics than the Italians. The worker bees are golden bronze color mixed from the freely mated Italian daughter queens with the Carni drones locally. If I want the normal non-aggressive bees I have to move the Italian daughter virgin queens into the Italian bee yard. And afterward move them back into my own yard. Every time the mixed Carni-Italian daughters would put out aggressive worker bees toward me. But the Italian virgin queens mated to the Italian drones are more mellow. So are you switching back to the Carnis and get rid of the Italians?


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

I got it in my head the carnies weren't making enough honey because I wasn't getting the huge populations I used to get with Italians. I ordered some queens to mix in and make splits and they got lost in the mail. I couldn't seen to get hold of the supplier, so I ordered more queens from another source. Then one fine day, I got replacements for the lost bees and the ones I ordered second. So I had lots of queens and ended up requeening hives of carnies that I probably should have kept. My results have not been bad, just a couple mean ones out of the mix. A lot of nice tame ones and the good producers out of them I will multiply. As far as managing my drone population. Commercial bees flood in here and any drones I encouraged would be numerically overrun by the migratory hordes. Who knows if that will be a bad thing. I will find out I guess because what I thought was an isolated area really isn't. The main commercial beek I am close to gets new Strachan queens every year. So I hope Mr. Strachan raises good bees.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

That is why. Now are they the Italians or Carni coming from Mr. Strachan's? Hope they are less aggressive if they are all mixed in.


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## MikeTheBeekeeper (May 18, 2011)

pioneerboy said:


> I want to know if its just me or if i actually have a little bit meaner bees...
> 
> when ever i watch these videos on youtube, or go into my friends hives with them, these other bees are always docile and dont seem like they want to hurt you when you get inside their hive.. My bees are Carolinians from a package bee producer in northern california. They are always heavy tempered, i try to work them slow and gentle, but they still just crazy! they sting me atleast 15 times everytime i work them, and literally cover my veil in a wall of bees, even if its only a 5 minute inspection. They are on alfalfa and i heard somewhere that alfalfa can make them "hot". The only reason i keep them is becuase they produce lots of honey, and they overwinter well. Is this just me being new or is this hive "hot":lookout:


To me it seems that when they are loaded with honey especially (maybe brood too) they are particularly defensive. Also in the winter time, I would think they'd be huddling not wanting to waste energy, but as soon as I open any of my hives they all come at me. It isn't like this in the spring (for me) so maybe it's just a seasonal issue. I don't know for sure.

Using smoke helps.


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## JClark (Apr 29, 2012)

Beepro,

You seem to be implying that Carnis are aggressive? Just want to make it clear that this in not the case for the new folks reading this. Generally, carnis are the one of the calmest breeds (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carniolan_honey_bee). In fact, I'm in the process of selecting out my Italians. Perhaps you are confusing carnis w/ russians or africanized stock. 

Pioneerboy,

Hive aggression is determined by much more than genetics. Constant mucking about is one way to provoke aggresive hives--especially during times of low flow. You shouldn't need to dig into your brood nest more than a few times a year. I look in 2-3 times in the spring during swarm management then leave the broodnest alone the rest of the year until early fall to make sure they are doing good. Other than that, I only open inner covers to see if I need to add another super--and add if needed. I would suspect robbing, critters, sloppy work (squishing bees), dearth, etc. before genetics. The aggresion might just be the bees telling you something needs to be done differently or not done at all.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

Hive aggression is recognized when your veil goes black with bouncing bees. Some hives do it all the time. Those need weeded out soonest opportunity, they can hurt people. In my experience after four or five days, the bees don't remember you were even there. If you are not a careful beekeeper, I can see why you only go in colonies a couple time a year. My style of management requires a lot more manipulations. And I like to look. I have produced really good honey crops going in hives every 9 days to smash swarm cells. Lets just not automatically assume the other guy is an idiot because his ideas differ from ours. Misguided, Yes! an idiot, No.


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## JClark (Apr 29, 2012)

Wasn't suggesting that--just listing the variables so he can think the problem out fully. I always look for ways I screwed up before blaming the bees. If my bees were that bad then, yes, they would need dealt with. Hope I never have that issue. Thats fine if you like to go in the hives often just stating it is not needed. Some folks seem to think it is a requirement when it, in fact, is not--just, as you state, a difference in technique.


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## pioneerboy (Feb 15, 2013)

I think what jclark is saying is true, as a 16 year old I'm not the most patient guy in the world, I'll try moving through the hive slower and and not try to smash so many bees, and not go into the brood chamber ever week. If they are still aggressive then I'll requeen them. Thanks for all the tips!


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## JClark (Apr 29, 2012)

If you are uncomfortable with getting stung (a common factor that causes new bee keepers to rush) wear pants, a thick shirt and gloves w/ you vail. That feeling of protection from being stung will allow you to slow down a little. Also, if you do get stung or squish one immediately smoke the area where it happened. This disrupts the communication between the victim bee and the others and prevents 10 more bees coming at you in defense. Helps a lot to have a helper when working the hive. If they are as aggressive as the example Vance gave then you may have no choice.

Good to see a 16 year old with a real hobby. I gardened growing up (and still do) and the only person I had to talk to about it was my grand dad. All my freinds thought I was weird. Keep it up. Aquiring these types of skills may be more necessary than people want to admit going forward.


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## pioneerboy (Feb 15, 2013)

JClark said:


> Good to see a 16 year old with a real hobby. I gardened growing up (and still do) and the only person I had to talk to about it was my grand dad. All my freinds thought I was weird. Keep it up. Aquiring these types of skills may be more necessary than people want to admit going forward.


 Yes a lot of my peers think I'm nutty but I've actually been able to get a few other kids started beekeeping.. Still mostly the only people who think I'm normal are normally older then me, but who cares haha


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

brettj777 said:


> if they are out of California you could potentially have some Africanized traits. one of the benefits of Africanized is they make honey like nobody's business but I would not want to keep such a hot hive and I would consider requeening


Actually, AHB's in general do not produce as much honey per colony as EHB's do, probably due to their absconding and swarminess natures.


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## bison (Apr 27, 2011)

Mean bees are no fun. I had a really hot hive in NorCal last spring from a queen I raised and it made me forget how fun beekeeping can be. Here's a link to a video I took when I moved the hive to a remote location while I requeened: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxwyu14ZNX4

I'd requeen your hive as soon as you can. Remember it will take a while for all the mean bees to cycle through the hive.


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## Teal (Jan 30, 2014)

bison said:


> Mean bees are no fun. I had a really hot hive in NorCal last spring from a queen I raised and it made me forget how fun beekeeping can be. Here's a link to a video I took when I moved the hive to a remote location while I requeened: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxwyu14ZNX4
> 
> I'd requeen your hive as soon as you can. Remember it will take a while for all the mean bees to cycle through the hive.


Oh my goodness! That's kind of scary! But you're all calm and collected during the video, wow. I think it might be fun to work with a hive like that on a rare occasion, but that's about it. Crazy.


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## pioneerboy (Feb 15, 2013)

bison said:


> Mean bees are no fun. I had a really hot hive in NorCal last spring from a queen I raised and it made me forget how fun beekeeping can be. Here's a link to a video I took when I moved the hive to a remote location while I requeened: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxwyu14ZNX4
> 
> I'd requeen your hive as soon as you can. Remember it will take a while for all the mean bees to cycle through the hive.


That video is pretty much my hive to a tee


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## Calbears94 (Jan 24, 2014)

What type of bees??? I am not saying carnelian's are aggressive but mine just seem to have a bad attitude if I go into deeps so I do avoid it.... I can switch out shallows and feed them and not too much of an issue.... That video was similiar to what happened when I went in for swarm prevention a few weeks ago except they followed me over 100 feet.... Most of the response from the old timers was suck it up but it's no fun getting pounded like that....


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## cwood6_10 (Apr 17, 2012)

I have a hive that was hotter than Teals. Wish I had a video of it but never got the camera out. My nerves cause forgetfulness. I bought the hive from a man who hadn't been in it in years. Little did I know that they where hotter than a fire cracker. Instead of lighting them on fire, which it wanted to do after the 3rd time of opening them up, I decided to spit them. I made two hives and put a new queen in the hive in the queen less one. I left the original hive with the old queen alone for a few weeks. The problem with hives like this is that so many can die because they send so many after you. I them purchased 2 new queens and requeened both hives. The spilt I made killed the first one I put in there after a couple weeks. I requeened the original one slowly. I left the cap on the candy for 3 days and then I uncapped it. I left them alone for the rest of the year. I just opened the hive this month and they have totally changed. I didn't dig for the queen because the weather hasn't leveled out yet but she was laying. I would order a queen and stick a new one in there. I am pretty new to bee keeping but this worked for me. Smoke doesn't ever help me. I believe they are AHB so I was trying to see if I could change the the genetics and calm them down. I think it may have worked. I will know for sure when they increase their numbers for spring.


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## JClark (Apr 29, 2012)

If my bees were that aggressive I'd re-queen too if you could find the queen.

Did a search here and there appears to be a theory/some experience that first generation Carni/Italian crosses can be hot. First I've heard of this so I may need to re-think my carni splits this spring--was going to let them raise their own queens along side my italian hives (and whatever else is here).


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## JClark (Apr 29, 2012)

Carnis were from Noble Apiaries in Dixon, CA (queenbeesforsale.com). Anybody know the source of their carni stock? Thought I found that their breeders were from a reputable dealer. Think they are New World Carnis but can't seem to find the info now.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

"that first generation Carni/Italian crosses can be hot."

So far I have only work with Italians because the seller do almonds for early Spring build up. I cannot say that the Carnis is aggressive because many had good experience with them. This is my experience only so far that the mixed mutt that are hot from the first generation hybrid queens. So I got rid of them before even seeing the 2nd generation. I am sure the pure one with many years of good gentle genetic would be calmer than the mixed queens.
The only way I can control this is to bring my Italian virgin queens into the yard that I bought my Italian queens from. Around my place we have more Carnis than the Italians drones in the spring time. They are not really that hot but more jumpy type of worker bees and will hoover around you if you get close to their hives. I don't like bees that chase me. Had enough of that in my first year.
A hot queen is a good laying queen that produce lots of aggressive workers from what I have seen so far. But if the colony is too small to barely defend themselves then the aggression somewhat suppressed as they are too busy trying to build up their hive number. Does this idea work to put aggressive worker broods into a gentle hive to increase the bee population of the gentle hive? Has anybody experience with this method before? It would be interesting to see what is the outcome. I am very tempted to try now that I am facing this situation with 3 small colony. One aggressive queen got caged now but very good early layer. These are all Italian queens.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

bison said:


> Mean bees are no fun. I had a really hot hive in NorCal last spring from a queen I raised and it made me forget how fun beekeeping can be. Here's a link to a video I took when I moved the hive to a remote location while I requeened: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxwyu14ZNX4
> 
> I'd requeen your hive as soon as you can. Remember it will take a while for all the mean bees to cycle through the hive.


Watching this video makes me want to say one word "RUN"


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## Paul McCarty (Mar 30, 2011)

Those girls are pretty hot! hotter than I usually see, and we HAVE africans here! Like someone mentioned Africans do make a stupid amount of honey because they will forage anything they find, even semi-sweet liquids. The swarmyness is pretty variable in my area, but we are also pretty temperate and they usually aren't a whole lot different than normal old bees, just a bit wilder. I do realize that your mileage may vary in this regard, depending on where you live.


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## BEE STALKER (Feb 12, 2012)

I keep the ferals I get from cut-outs, trap-outs and swarms in a separate yard on the edge of the chaparral in the local foothills. They are as mean as can be, everybody that can fly comes out and goes nuts when you work them. After working them, I walk 300 yards away up a hill with at least a dozen diehards that won't give up. I then slightly zip down the suit and the first one in gets whacked. After ten minutes I've got the last one and can walk down the hill.

Besides taking all the fun out of a normal inspection, they swarm mightily, make a lot of bees and hardly any honey and refuse to be re-queened. 

They do tolerate a heavy might load, but so what?


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## Paul McCarty (Mar 30, 2011)

Encino - you guys should have pretty close to the real thing, not the watered down kind we have.


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## rhaldridge (Dec 17, 2012)

Well, after seeing that video, I'm relieved to know that the bees I have that seem a bit hotter than average are really not that bad. Most of my bees are sweet as can be, but these ones will occasionally hit the veil, and follow me a short distance. Nothing like that video, though, which is reassuring.

If you're a beginner like me, stuff like that can be very valuable to know.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Does anybody know if I use the hot hive larvae to help with the population growth of my gentle hive, will the worker bees
turn aggressive toward me on a hive inspection? I thought the queen bee is the one that control the temperament in
the hive.


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## Paul McCarty (Mar 30, 2011)

Ditto, Rhaldridge - I have NOTHING that even approaches those levels.


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## JClark (Apr 29, 2012)

Beepro,

Would imagine they'd still be hot if the character trait is due to genetics. If environmental then maybe not. Don't think the queen has anything to do with it (other than genetics). Lack of a queen could make them a bit more aggressive though.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Yes, like the African bees.
How come when we requeen, a queenless hive will be more calm compared to when they don't have one?
I thought the queen secrete some type of hormone to make the worker bees much calmer. The same to do
with a hot hive that got requeened with a non-aggressive queen bee that they are more mellow. 
Don't we pinch the mean queen and give them a better one? I'd seen that on you tube vids too.
This is all still very new to me. Maybe one day I will understand more about the honey bees.


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## JClark (Apr 29, 2012)

You pinch the mean queen and let the new queen take over to get rid of the mean queen genetics. All queens, mean or not, produce a pheromone that "calms" the workers. Maybe, in some cases, the queen is getting old (or for other reasons) and does not produce the quality and/or quantity of this pheromone anymore so the bees boot her and re-queen themselves. Maybe in this case the queen can "cause" the bees to be a little more mean until they get her replaced.


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## lazy shooter (Jun 3, 2011)

I'm in West Texas and my winter is about over. In a normal year we won't have another hard freeze, a freeze below 30 degrees F that lasts for more than a few hours. When would be a good time to replace my mean queen? What would be the earliest date?


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