# Bees left the hive, leaving the queen behind - what do I do?



## Jo Jo (Mar 19, 2021)

Hi everyone - I rescued a colony of bees that had fallen from the top of a palm tree (tree struck by lightning a couple of years ago and a bad storm blew the top off) - they were lying on the sidewalk with some pretty awful (damaged) comb. I found the queen but she was dead, but I put the rest of these bees in a hive. I purchased a new queen and attendants, put her in the hive with the bees I had rescued, two days later the entire colony left the hive, apart from about 20 bees. So now I have a queen in an empty hive, with only about 20 bees. I put a bit of pollen patty in there - just to help - but my question is - I have another hive - can I take a few frames of bees, brood and eggs and honey and put them in with the rescued bees? Or will they just kill the queen? if I just put eggs and honey and brood in, there's nobody to take care of them (not enough nurse bees). OR do I need to recapture this queen, put her in a clip and THEN put bees and brood in etc.? Then release her in a couple of days? I was thinking of merging them with another hive, putting the weak hive on top of a strong hive, divided by newspaper, but the problem is the rescue hive is just in a swarm box, it won't fit on a regular hive (only has 5 frames). I'm in south Florida - daytime temperatures around 70 to 80 degrees, nighttime around 70 ish.
I just don't think they will survive as they are. ANY HELP WOULD BE APPRECIATED!


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## Fizbi (Feb 25, 2021)

I know absolutly nothing on this, but if it were me, I would at least try capturing that queen in a clip and introduce her to the other bees. I would be thinking to myself, that I have nothing to lose trying. 

Do something, even if it's wrong. Then share this interesting story.


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## Jo Jo (Mar 19, 2021)

Fizbi said:


> I know absolutly nothing on this, but if it were me, I would at least try capturing that queen in a clip and introduce her to the other bees. I would be thinking to myself, that I have nothing to lose trying.
> 
> Do something, even if it's wrong. Then share this interesting story.


Thanks... I think this may be her only hope so most likely I'll do this tomorrow. Thank you. I will keep you posted if I go this route


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## Amibusiness (Oct 3, 2016)

Hard to give a suggestion without knowing where you are. Palm trees, it's probably warm enough.What are your night time temps? When is your normal swarm season? Probably best to make a split off your current hive and introduce the caged new queen to the new split on new stand. How many frames of capped brood does your other colony have?


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## mtnmyke (Apr 27, 2017)

You didn't mention if the queen you purchased was still in the cage? If not, put her back in there and take two frames of brood from your other colony (making sure not to take the queen obviously) and a frame of honey/pollen. It also doesn't hurt to shake in a few frames worth of bees. The foragers will fly back which is perfect as we really only want the nurse bees. Nurse bees accept queens MUCH better than older bees. Then add your caged queen back to the colony and release her in 3 days or let them eat through the candy if there is still 3 days worth left.

I do this all the time to make up nucs and the bees never fight and I never lose queens. You can swap bees and even queens rather easily, especially this time of year when resources are plentiful.

In the future, if you catch a swarm or have a bundle of bees with no resources - take a frame of brood from another colony and add that to them. Bees will rarely, if ever, abandon brood so it keeps them from absconding like they did. It doesn't have to be a full frame to the point you're weakening another hive, just enough to give them that feeling of "home".


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## Jo Jo (Mar 19, 2021)

Amibusiness said:


> Hard to give a suggestion without knowing where you are. Palm trees, it's probably warm enough.What are your night time temps? When is your normal swarm season? Probably best to make a split off your current hive and introduce the caged new queen to the new split on new stand. How many frames of capped brood does your other colony have?





mtnmyke said:


> You didn't mention if the queen you purchased was still in the cage? If not, put her back in there and take two frames of brood from your other colony (making sure not to take the queen obviously) and a frame of honey/pollen. It also doesn't hurt to shake in a few frames worth of bees. The foragers will fly back which is perfect as we really only want the nurse bees. Nurse bees accept queens MUCH better than older bees. Then add your caged queen back to the colony and release her in 3 days or let them eat through the candy if there is still 3 days worth left.
> 
> I do this all the time to make up nucs and the bees never fight and I never lose queens. You can swap bees and even queens rather easily, especially this time of year when resources are plentiful.
> 
> In the future, if you catch a swarm or have a bundle of bees with no resources - take a frame of brood from another colony and add that to them. Bees will rarely, if ever, abandon brood so it keeps them from absconding like they did. It doesn't have to be a full frame to the point you're weakening another hive, just enough to give them that feeling of "home".


THANK YOU FOR RESPONDING SO QUICKLY! YOU ARE AWESOME!
I'm in south Florida - daytime temperatures around 70 to 80 degrees, nighttime around 70 ish..
The purchased queen was in a cage, but it was while she was in the cage, that the rest of the colony absconded, leaving just those few bees that were covering the cage behind. When I looked in the hive yesterday, the cage was empty so she's out, but there was still the same group of bees more or less huddled in the area adjacent to where the QC had been. So she's free but only about 20 bees in there with her. So THANK YOU - I will put her back in the cage for protection (there's no candy left unfortunately - so how will she survive? Although at this point there's no honey in there, just the pattie I put in there), and then put a couple of frames of brood in there and hopefully some honey too. That will definitely give them a boost. I just did NOT want to put the new frames in without the queen being in a cage. Your advice has helped TREMENDOUSLY. THANK YOU THANK YOU.


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## Jo Jo (Mar 19, 2021)

Jo Jo said:


> THANK YOU FOR RESPONDING SO QUICKLY! YOU ARE AWESOME!
> I'm in south Florida - daytime temperatures around 70 to 80 degrees, nighttime around 70 ish..
> The purchased queen was in a cage, but it was while she was in the cage, that the rest of the colony absconded, leaving just those few bees that were covering the cage behind. When I looked in the hive yesterday, the cage was empty so she's out and NOT in a cage, but there was still the same group of bees more or less huddled in the area adjacent to where the QC had been. So she's free but only about 20 bees in there with her. If I put her in a clip, other bees can get access to her, so that won't protect her, will it? So if I DO put another couple of frames in, they may kill her, right? I don't have the ability to put her in a cage for protection.... :-( so not sure what to do now. I have brood and honey from another hive that I can put in, but like I said, won't they kill this queen? I guess if they do, they can make another one from the eggs they will have, but I just hate losing an innocent little queen...


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## mtnmyke (Apr 27, 2017)

Happy to help!

As long as you leave the screen on the cage exposed to the bees they can feed her through it. So no worry about that. You can close it off with the original cork or...really anything like a piece of tape to cover the hole. Just come back in three days and let her out again. By then, all the older bees will have flown back to the other colony and she'll be accepted by the remaining nurse bees.

Also, the patty is good for encouraging them to rear brood and for nutrition but you may want to get some sugar syrup on the hive as well - at least until they are strong enough and have the workforce to forage nectar for themselves. Feeding plus the honey frame you give them should get them going!

Keep us updated on the progress!


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## Jo Jo (Mar 19, 2021)

mtnmyke said:


> Happy to help!
> 
> As long as you leave the screen on the cage exposed to the bees they can feed her through it. So no worry about that. You can close it off with the original cork or...really anything like a piece of tape to cover the hole. Just come back in three days and let her out again. By then, all the older bees will have flown back to the other colony and she'll be accepted by the remaining nurse bees.
> 
> ...


I only have a queen clip, not a queen cage - so the other bees can get in and out (she just can't get out of the clip). I don't have another cage, or anything to put her in to protect her from new bees. That's my worry. Unless I just put a frame of honey in there and let them build up on their own?


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

You do not have enough bees for them to build so you will need to add nurse bees. Putting the queen in a cage is best, putting her in a clip will help, but often you can just shake in a frame or two of nurse bees into a hive with no problems at all. I would use the clip since that is what you have.


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## mtnmyke (Apr 27, 2017)

I wouldn't worry too much then. Make up the split as I previously mentioned and then give them a few hours before introducing your queen to them. (Keep her caged with a few of her current attendants and place the clip in a box with those bees. This way you can keep her warm inside.) This will give the older bees in the split a chance to fly back to the parent colony. Lay the clip on the top and see how they respond to her. If they are fanning around her and not trying to attack go ahead and release her and check back in a few days. If they seem aggressive leave the queen in the box with the attendants overnight and try again.

Worse case scenario it doesn't work out and you can combine those frames back to the parent colony, or if they draw queen cells you can just let them raise another queen.

I perfect solution would be an introduction cage. You place the queen under the cage with some emerging brood. This allows her to start laying with new bees hatching around her to tend to her. A laying queen will 99% of the time be accepted. These cages can be made with #8 hardware cloth if you happen to have some around. If not, do the split, wait a few hours, introduce the queen back and see how they react. I bet they will be fine.



https://www.michiganbees.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Queen-Introduction-Cage_20120715.pdf


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## Jo Jo (Mar 19, 2021)

JWPalmer said:


> You do not have enough bees for them to build so you will need to add nurse bees. Putting the queen in a cage is best, putting her in a clip will help, but often you can just shake in a frame or two of nurse bees into a hive with no problems at all. I would use the clip since that is what you have.


Thank you!


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## Jo Jo (Mar 19, 2021)

mtnmyke said:


> I wouldn't worry too much then. Make up the split as I previously mentioned and then give them a few hours before introducing your queen to them. (Keep her caged with a few of her current attendants and place the clip in a box with those bees. This way you can keep her warm inside.) This will give the older bees in the split a chance to fly back to the parent colony. Lay the clip on the top and see how they respond to her. If they are fanning around her and not trying to attack go ahead and release her and check back in a few days. If they seem aggressive leave the queen in the box with the
> 
> Worse case scenario it doesn't work out and you can combine those frames back to the parent colony, or if they draw queen cells you can just let them raise another queen.
> 
> ...


Excellent advice - I will do so and will keep you posted. Thank you again - found this introduction cage information VERY helpful. Thank you!


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## Amibusiness (Oct 3, 2016)

The queen must have come in a cage with candy? I would get the #8 hardware cloth and make an introduction cage. And keep it for future use. Look up how to use it. Mike Palmer is always a good source. Careful with the patties in Fla. My understanding is the small hive beetles have a field day in there and a split is not the place you want that....


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## mtnmyke (Apr 27, 2017)

Amibusiness said:


> The queen must have come in a cage with candy?


That's why I suggested reusing the old one. Unless they are selling queens in clips now 🤷‍♂️


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## Jo Jo (Mar 19, 2021)

The queen originally came in a cage with candy, but she ate her way out of that and I took that cage and disposed of it (never thinking for a second I might be able to reuse it) - I really wish I'd kept it... so all I have left is a queen clip that I can catch her in. As for the pollen patty I put in there, it is supposed to be a winter pollen patty, and I only put a small piece in, the size of my thumb, but now I"m worried about the hive beetles so I definitely won't put any more in and may remove what's there when I open it up again. I have been reading up and studying the queen introduction cage and I absolutely LOVE LOVE LOVE it - what a fantastic idea... this is going to be perfect. I have #10 but it's wire mesh, too firm and holes are way too small for this, so I'm going to get my hands on #8 and make one as soon as I can. What a fantastic cage. I will keep you posted with photos once it's done.
I have to say what relief I have had, knowing that you are out there to help - I really REALLY appreciate your responses.


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## mtnmyke (Apr 27, 2017)

If you haven't found Michael Palmer yet:
Introduction cage


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## Jo Jo (Mar 19, 2021)

WOW! That is excellent. What a fantastic resource he is, thank you for that... there's SO much of his stuff on the internet - fantastic.


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## Jo Jo (Mar 19, 2021)

I got the #8 hardware cloth, was all ready to build the cage, but thought I should just check in the hive and see how they're doing - they're gone, it's completely empty. :-(
Just empty.
So yes I'm sad because I really wanted to help them, but at least I can make a queen intro cage and be ready for the next time. And I now have TONS of things to watch from Michael Palmer, I found this website, so I couldn't be happier. THANK YOU again.


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## mtnmyke (Apr 27, 2017)

Did you add the two frames of brood and honey? I'd be incredibly amazed if they abandoned brood you freshly added.


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## Jo Jo (Mar 19, 2021)

No, I only just got the #8 hardware cloth and hadn't yet made the introduction cage - was busy making that and getting ready to get the brood and honey from the other hive and something made me look inside to make sure the queen WAS there (otherwise there would be no point in doing all this), so I popped the top off and it's completely empty. So I didn't do anything with it. I was so disappointed, I was hoping that by a miracle I'd be able to renew this tiny doomed cluster of bees and the queen, but there are no bees in there at all.


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## Jo Jo (Mar 19, 2021)

The introduction cage, once I have made it, will be a HUGE benefit to us, as we do a lot of bee rescues, removals and relocations. When there's a bee removal or rescue (like the one from the palm tree), they are placed temporarily in my "BICU" (bee intensive care unit) where I watch them for a month to make sure they're OK, and once we're sure they're OK, we move them to their forever home in the bee sanctuary (some land lent to us by the city of Fort Lauderdale) where we (by "we" I really mean the beekeeper who runs the non-profit organization) looks after them. It's all a part of his urban bee keeping mission and teaching people about bees, spreading the word about saving the bees, rescuing and removing bees from unwanted locations. He runs this non-profit and got me interested in bees (best thing I've ever done in my life). Here is my "BICU" before winter. The bee keeper who normally helps with all these issues was unavailable to help with this palm tree colony, so I was trying to save them on my own. I was unsuccessful, but learned how to be prepared in the future and what to do, from this forum.


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## mtnmyke (Apr 27, 2017)

Sorry to hear 

Time was of some importance so next time you'll also know to get right on top of it, as well as have the push in cage to do so.

Sounds like you're on the right track and a true steward for our honey bees!


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