# Less than a year to get ready



## SmokeyHill (Feb 6, 2018)

How did I come to the conclusion that I want to be a beekeeper? How does anyone? Frankly, blasphemy though it must be on a site like this, I don't even like honey. I use it in a few bread and BBQ recipes, but a couple bottles will last me a year. It's an often occurrence for me to find the honey has hardened in the bottle long before I could use it all. So why do I have this desire to become a beekeeper? I don't know.

I have been considering it, beekeeping, for several years. I even attended a beekeeper association meeting some years back. Contrary to what I read here and on other sites, the members, perhaps a dozen in all, were arrogant, standoffish, and left my wife and I with the impression that you must be born knowing how to raise bees or you are doomed to failure, without hope. I asked only two questions: Would anyone be interested in being a mentor for me? No volunteers. Second: Does anyone make their own hives? Only one individual did. He suggested that I not even think about it. The design was to critical and complicated. We left before the end of the meeting, feeling like interlopers in a private club. It left a very poor taste in my mouth. They certainly weren't as friendly as most of the gardeners I know. But I still wanted to be a beekeeper.

I didn't act on my desire. I shelved my feelings for awhile, and stopped reading. The urge never went away though. Eventually, I started reading again. Not much has changed. Varroa are still a problem, as are Small Hive Beetles and Wax Moths. I'm starting my beekeeping adventure in the spring of 2019. Darn the torpedoes! Full speed ahead! And, I'll not be joining a certain beekeepers association. Unfortunately, I'm on my own. Doomed to failure? Possibly. Without hope? Never.

I have just under a year to get myself ready. I've decided on nukes over package bees. My philosophy is simple: A package is $120 on the internet, a nuke is $165 from a semi-local bee farm. The extra $45 is worth it to have a laying queen and a strong beginning. I plan on starting with three or four, probably four. I'm only kidding myself here, it's four and I know it. 

I'm a very good woodworker with a well equipped shop. I'll spend this summer making all of my own wooden ware. All medium eight frame boxes is where I'm heading on the recommendations of Michael Bush, whom I've never met or spoken with, only read. I'm still undecided on frames and foundation, but leaning heavily on wire only, no foundation; again, a (partial) Michael Bush recommendation. My reasoning is, when bees swarm naturally, they start from scratch and seem to do just fine. Obviously, the beginning won't be that way since the nukes will have some sort of foundation. Any frames I add after that will be my own. In that respect, the bees will thrive or not depending on their own resourcefulness and drive.

I'm undecided on treatment free versus treating and will cross that bridge when the time comes. I suspect I'll treat when intervention becomes necessary but otherwise let the bees do what bees do. I'm not treading into this lightly. I'm about to take on the responsibility of tens of thousands of lives, insects though they may be. They are life, and I will be responsible for them as I am my wife, children, dog, cats and chickens. My conscience won't allow otherwise. After years of raising chickens, I still shed a tear or two when I have to put down a hen.

So, why do I want to be a beekeeper? I don't know. My wife and I have a large garden from which we preserve and can many things. I have grape arbors that we harvest to make jelly; we've no taste for wine. I have apple and peach trees that we use for pie filling, preserves and such. We also raise both laying chickens and Cornish X meat birds for harvest. Maybe all of that explains why beekeeping seems so desirable to me. Perhaps I'll even learn to like plain old honey on toast. 

Oh, and the name...SmokeyHill...given to my property by several friends that come by for BBQ parties on my little two-acre mountaintop in West Virginia.


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## JTGaraas (Jun 7, 2014)

Why wait - you can read, and obviously can think! You are ready to start now, not later!


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

If you will make your own equipment it could still be a good idea to buy one professionally made super with frames, just so you can see the fit, etc. The guy at the club was right, making your own frames is tricky. I'm sure you can do it but having a commercially made one to look at will tell you if your own ones are up to a good standard. If they are not it will be a pain in the butt to your beekeeping for years to come.

Wouldn't be in too much hurry to burn bridges with the bee club, you may find that after a couple years beekeeping you will gel with them a bit better. Mentoring someone is a BIG ask, and is often not appreciated, it's not surprising that there were no volunteers, and seems like the only other thing wrong was you didn't like being advised to buy gear rather than make it. To fit in a club it's necessary to be open to the opinions of others.


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## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

OT is right buy your first box and frames, from there you can make up your own bottom boards and if I was you make up some migratory lids. You will have to learn about bee space and find that standard boxes will no give the correct bee space to a flat lid so you will have to fit 3/16" strips around your migratory flat lids to provide the bee space required. Frames ! if you have nothing to do with your time and want to make inferior frames at a higher cost that you can purchase them for go right ahead Mann Lake frames at about $81 per hundred is a hard thing to beat, but then again if you do not take advice from others thats your problem. After saying that I make everything except the frames. As for mentors, once upon a time aspiring beekeepers would seek out a beekeeper close by and offer to help him in any way he could and will end up helping the old beekeeper work his bees until the old beekeeper came to the conclusion that the new boy was worth something and would get him started with his first hive and away they would go but I guess folks now do not bother about learning something first, but in the end how you go is up to you.
Johno


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## SmokeyHill (Feb 6, 2018)

Oldtimer said:


> If you will make your own equipment it could still be a good idea to buy one professionally made super with frames, just so you can see the fit, etc. The guy at the club was right, making your own frames is tricky. I'm sure you can do it but having a commercially made one to look at will tell you if your own ones are up to a good standard. If they are not it will be a pain in the butt to your beekeeping for years to come.
> 
> Wouldn't be in too much hurry to burn bridges with the bee club, you may find that after a couple years beekeeping you will gel with them a bit better. Mentoring someone is a BIG ask, and is often not appreciated, it's not surprising that there were no volunteers, and seems like the only other thing wrong was you didn't like being advised to buy gear rather than make it. To fit in a club it's necessary to be open to the opinions of others.


I guess this is one of those “you had to be there moments”. I’m certainly not against buying a frame or even a box. The plans for both are readily available for free and all are nearly identical in dimension. Demeanor goes a long way to expressing one’s attitude. His attitude was negative from the get-go.

Perhaps I am mis-understanding you, but are you saying that beekeepers do not appreciate being asked to be a mentor? As an avid gardener and woodworker, I am honored to be asked to mentor someone. They have come to me for knowledge because they believe in me. If, on the other hand, you are saying that those that mentor are unappreciated, maybe they should evaluate their trainees better. In my opinion, to simply refuse to mentor someone without even speaking with them and learning who they are for fear of not being appreciated is shallow and childish. In this case, not one person even showed any interest on speaking with us. Again, you had to be there.

Finally, and this may sound argumentative but so be it, I take exception to this:
“seems like the only other thing wrong was you didn't like being advised to buy gear rather than make it.”

I was never advised to buy gear. My question was simple. Does anyone make their own hives? The answer was: Don’t even try; without knowing who I was, what my skills were or what my motivation was. That sir, is wrong, just as your evaluation of my feelings are. You do not know me.

I’m burning no bridges with the association, as there are no bridges to burn. I am a member of many gardening, chicken and woodworking forums and associations. All have taught me something. I am always open to new ideas, opinions and methods. I have no desire to “fit” into that particular club.


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## SmokeyHill (Feb 6, 2018)

It's interesting, and discouraging, that I have to defend myself after a simple introduction. 

Johno, just exactly how do you know that I would build an inferior frame? Just because you do not have the equipment or skill to build them does not mean that I do not. Do you know where I source my lumber, or the cost? No, you do not. And frankly, how dare you assume that I do not take the advice of others based on the very little you have read on this thread?

In fact, I did seek the advice of a local beekeeper, several in fact, and would have done whatever was necessary to learn. However, I was not offered that opportunity. I am not jumping into this without "bothering about learning something first". I'm a year from bees and several years into learning, albeit from reading only. Out of curiosity, just how long did you study and contemplate before getting your first bees?

Do I sound defensive? I certainly feel like I am now. Is this because I want to put a skill to use by combining two hobbies (beekeeping and woodworking)?


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## SmokeyHill (Feb 6, 2018)

JTGaraas said:


> Why wait - you can read, and obviously can think! You are ready to start now, not later!


Thank you. I would love to start now, but I have to make sure I have everything ready. I can't build anything until the weather warms. My woodshop is unheated and working the wood while it's cold is tantamount to disaster (not to mention the "shivering" mistakes). Besides, what's one more year. Maybe I can finally find a mentor and actually get to see live bees in action. Although I have been considering setting a swarm trap or two and see what happens. Truth be told, I will probably panic if I happen to catch one. 

As a funny side-note, I feel much like I did when my wife was pregnant with our firstborn over 30 years ago.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

Well, well, well.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Smokey....


> Truth be told, I will probably panic if I happen to catch one.


I did panic when I caught one but it still worked out. You only know what you know and at some point have to just jump to it. I did find catching my first swarm to be one of the funner things that happened and it might be the hook that doesn't let you back out.
There are no real mistakes when you are doing it for your self. It is only when you are giving others your money that you can really make a mistake. Better to catch one and have something to look at while you are reading and studying. I read for a year and watched a million vidios and was still lost as heck and intimidated when I get into hives. I do say one thing. When you start building, build a lot extra, you will need it.
Good luck.
gww


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Yes, agree with GWW, I don't think it's necessary to do a whole heap of learning before getting the bees, mainly cos a lot of it doesn't make a lot of sense until after the person is getting their own hands in the hives and then the book learning becomes a lot easier to understand. Me, I advocate learning on the job, so to speak.

Realised my other post may have seemed abrupt, sorry about that, but will say that the the opinions i expressed are the result of years of experience in both bees, and human nature. I too understand woodwork far as bee gear goes anyway, in my younger days I spend literally months standing behind a sawbench making beehives in the winter off season. I would still recommend you get one professionally made box and frames to look at.

Re the mentoring thing, sure, it's a complement to be asked to mentor it shows someone trusts you. But of the people I've mentored, probably at least half of them end up thinking I'm just free help that can be summoned with a phone call, anytime they need something doing on their bees. When I was working bees full time I simply didn't have time to mentor anyone, but after retiring thought I would share the love and mentor anyone who asked, but eventually was so used and abused I just had to tell them all I couldn't do it any more, and some of those folks got all offended. This despite that I would never have asked a lot of them to help me with anything, cos I already knew they would have said sorry, no time.

The people I respect and still give training to, are the ones that ring and say they want to learn bees, could they come and help ME so they can learn. Those folks I welcome.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

To oldtimers point. I had somebody come over and make some suggestions to me. I listened some and didn't listen some. I didn't tell the guy I wasn't going to listen cause he knows more then me and I didn't want to burn any bridges. However, I also don't want him to manage my bees.  I want to do it. If I just wanted to be with bees but make no decisions, I would just get a job and let someone else be the boss. That said, in the beginning, I never turned down a chance to go watch him do his bees his way. And that was very helpful. 

I respect and try to listen to the advice of people I know are smarter then me but have always related to frank sinatras song, "I did it my way". I make the final decission and I reap the rewards or pay for the mistakes but am not needy even when in panic mode due to not knowing for sure what to do. I do know where to go to ask, (here) and become pretty good at picking what is offerred that will work for me.

You might get your mentor and then regret it if you have an independant streak. Finding some one successful that you could watch making decissions for thier bees is probly gold though.
Good luck.
gww


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## JTGaraas (Jun 7, 2014)

I did not get the “bug” until I was about sixty-five(65) and realized I had no hobbies except for work, or yard work. Always had a hankering, and periodically something happened that peaked my curiosity - like stopping to eat lunch while hunting pheasants in an apiary, and never being even bothered by the thousands of bees that flew in and out of those white boxes. I sure wish I had started twenty plus (20+) years earlier. Buy some boxes, get your feet wet, build boxes for the inevitable increased enthusiasm, and jump in next year whole-hog with some experience and knowledge. You will also be doing something productive, and be out of your wife’s kingdom.


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## SmokeyHill (Feb 6, 2018)

Oldtimer said:


> Yes, agree with GWW, I don't think it's necessary to do a whole heap of learning before getting the bees, mainly cos a lot of it doesn't make a lot of sense until after the person is getting their own hands in the hives and then the book learning becomes a lot easier to understand. Me, I advocate learning on the job, so to speak.
> 
> Realised my other post may have seemed abrupt, sorry about that, but will say that the the opinions i expressed are the result of years of experience in both bees, and human nature. I too understand woodwork far as bee gear goes anyway, in my younger days I spend literally months standing behind a sawbench making beehives in the winter off season. I would still recommend you get one professionally made box and frames to look at.
> 
> ...


This is exactly what I was wanting to do. I had no bees, but wanted to go to another beekeepers yard and watch them work and get involved if I could. To me, that's the best way to learn. I would never presume to go to an others garden and tell them how to do it but, rather, bring them to my garden and show them how I do it. They can take or leave it as they desire. What works for one, doesn't always work for another, but the basics are all there.
I apologize if I offended. And I thank you for your insight.


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## Dan the bee guy (Jun 18, 2015)

Oldtimer you said it mentoring can be a pain if they just don't get it. I told my brother inlaw he has to do more this year he almost went into a panic it's been 2 years of mentoring.


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## frogpondwarrior (Aug 2, 2016)

Different kind of introduction.
Welcome and bee amazed


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

SmokeyHill said:


> I had no bees, but wanted to go to another beekeepers yard and watch them work and get involved if I could. To me, that's the best way to learn.


Oh, they wouldn't even do that for you? Well in that case, perhaps you are right, and they are rather unsharing.


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## cbay (Mar 27, 2017)

Since you've done homework and know you want to do it, and you have the time to commit then i say go for it this season. 
Like said much of it won't really sink in till you get your hands in the hive.
We jumped in last year with very little homework. Fell in love with the little buggers and so far it's been a real blessing and one that we look forward to every day. Go for it!


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

SmokeyHill, when I read your post, it sounded like you came in with a chip on your shoulder. I now realize that you have already had a bad experience. You won't find the standoffish attitude here, we all want to help. The advice about frames was to keep you from a fool's task, not cast doubt on your woodworking skills. I make all my own woodenware also, except the frames. Why? Cause they are too inexpensive to go through the hassle of making them by hand. Listen to the advice you receive here and you will be way ahead of the game. Oh, make a few swarm traps and buy at least one complete hive kit. You might find yourself a beekeeper this year yet! If you PM me your address, I will send you the dimensions and milling instructions to make woodenware that matches that made by Brushy Mountain. Many of the internet plans are designed to maximize the use of the plywood and the items built from them may not interchange with other equipment.









How I spend my evenings...


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## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

Smokeyhill you seem to be a well ballanced guy with a chip on both shoulders, when I first started beekeeping I befriended a couple of beekeepers by getting to meet them and showing an interest in beekeeping. I helped them work their hives for a season and the next spring started me off with 2 frames and a queen cell and the rest is history. As for frames if you can make them cheaper and better than probably CNC machines you must be truly magnificent. when it comes to mentors it is better for you to find your own mentor in the way I described and better the guy who has many colonies than the guy with few or no colonies who talks a lot but it is up to you to convince someone that you are worth mentoring.
Johno


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

I have built at least 600 frames. I have built about twenty hives plus hives. I do have a table saw. I am slow and don't mass produce but also have pretty much been spending a big part of the last three years building stuff. Even spending that much time, I still only have about 20 something hives. I know my wood working skills are not close to lot on here and maybe you also. I do know that I gave away my first swarm and I had about six hives built ahead and I made a comment that I was not worried about getting the boxes back that the guy carried the swarm I gave away home in. With in a month, I had filled all that equiptment with swarms from my hives (I did a piss poor job on swarm control) and two that I caught. I only came out of winter with three hives but still filled all that extra equiptment.

Why write this? Just to point out, you don't have a heated garage and so are going to build in warm weather. What I find with warm weather in the beginning of the year is that it is my busiest time with trying to control the bees, starting a garden and mushroom season and getting the erge to fish at least a few times.

I hate buying stuff and that is why it takes me two weeks to build a hive when I include frames. I think it is worth it cause I have had the time. I am looking towards buying frames if I ever start selling stuff cause I can't make them fast enough to keep up. Making them for honey production seems ok but making them for selling nucs would be a losing proposition.

So, however you have to do it, it would be better to have some extra equiptment around so you are not put in the position to have to just watch stuff you would like to have fly off and away from you.

Getting the first bees is important. Then you have something to work and learn with. The sooner the better. Every mistake will put you a year behind cause you can not go to the store and get bees when you want but have to get them when availible. If you are buying and don't know some one, that could be Nov. cause the bees some times sell out pretty fast. If you find some one or watch the adds on craigs list you may find bees. If you catch a swarm which is not a garrentee though quite possible, that will happen in spring. If you miss the window, even if you change your mind, you might not be able to get a hive or might get them at a time that hurts your chances or cost you a whole bunch of sugar water to try and get them through winter.

Till you get a rescorce list from just knowing more and doing it, you will be dealing with strangers on the one time of the year chance of getting bees. If you miss it, it can cost you another year.

I like the bee club for the info you can pick up and have been to a couple of meetings over a two year period. You might hear where they are getting thier cheap sugar and other nice little gossips. But, in the end, you will be the one that has to do it and are responcible to how it goes for you.

You will learn more by seeing while you are listening. So if you are committed to having bees and to takeing advantage of oppertunities. Having a bit of equiptment ready will put you in the position of what may come up and in my experiance, I was slower starting out building then I am now and I am still slow. Haveing some made or bought will have you ready for the swarm or the guy that finally opens up and sells you a couple of frames of brood and a queen.

I was over confident my first year and thought I would catch a swarm with my 12 traps I had out and then all that happened was my built hives sit out an extra year in the weather with not bees in them. The second year, I bought a nuc and caught two swarms before I even got it. Dealing with wild things and other people doesn't allow you to set the time table (even if you have money if every one is sold out) but once you have bees in your own box, you can learn at your own pace with out relieing on everyone else.
Just my thoughts.
Wishing you well.
gww


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

Before you invest in the considerable amount of time and effort in making your own equipment, buy a complete set of good quality equipment and install some bees in it. 

In other words, start this year.

Actually caring for bees (in their woodenware) will improve the eventual design and construction of your own stuff.

I can barely use a screwdriver to assemble pre-drilled shims, so I have no advice to offer on that.

But instead of shop classes, because I was a girl, I was steered to Home Ec classes and learned how to sew. So I now make my own hive jackets and veils. But I still bought my first few of them (with different design details) to try them out in practice. That way I could make improvements and changes from personal knowledge, not from speculation. Of course I could have just looked at pictures in catalogs, and even tried on some at bee-suppliers, but I wouldn't have known what really works best in the bee yard.

Expecting someone to jump at the chance to be your mentor is really a big ask. You need to mentor yourself, which doesn't mean you can't ask for advice and help (here, at club meetings, or just informally from other beekeepers). It just puts the responsibility for figuring out what you need to know, and where to find the info, on you. You can do it!

Nancy


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Voila! Instant mentoring, albeit via forum posts. Hundreds of folks eagar to help the new beekeeper and willing to share their cumulative experience. Before I got my bees, I read a lot of books and watched a lot of videos. So much conflicting information. Everything started to come together AFTER I got my first hive. The only way to become a beekeeper is to get some bees. That is why I encourage you to build a few swarm traps and set them out if you don't want to spend the money on a nuc just yet. I use the plans available at:
http://www.horizontalhive.com/how-to-build/swarm-trap-free-plans.shtml


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Or even better then Jw's suggestion (only my opinion) is to build a few deeps and put them out for traps. Then you can just move them when they catch something and use them as hives. I run all mediums and have added skirts to the bottom to make bigger or just built deeps with the intention to cut them down to mediums if I ever run low on equiptment and have a need but not the time or rescorces to build more. Just use one of my traps for a hive. I have built some traps out of scrap that was not good enough for hive bodies but if I am building, I hate wasting good wood that can be used for hives for just a trap.

I have thirteen hives ahead now and will throw a little lemon grass oil in them untill I put bees in them. This is not saying JW does not have a good ideal but just that you might be able to do both. The easiest and fastes traps I have put together is with half inch plywood that you make a few cuts and slap together and can use a peice of half inch for a frame rest. I still like the ideal of being able to use the traps as hives if needed. 
Cheers
gww

Ps If you get into it too hard, you can have more money and time in traps then if you just went and bought a nuc. Even gas to check them or pick up swarms is not free.


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## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

Welcome!


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## SmokeyHill (Feb 6, 2018)

Thanks to all of you. If I seemed pissy, and I'm sure I did, I apologize. I understand the reasoning for purchasing a complete hive to start out, I really do. I may even consider it if things do not go as planned in the shop this spring. I have been studying several frame designs and believe I can mass produce a very nice frame with my router tables. The current design involves dovetailing the sides into the top and bottom bars. Using dovetail followers will fill the gaps and make the frames immensely strong, more so than any staple or nail ever could. The hive bodies are simple box joints, easily mass cut with a dado blade or on a router table. Having more than one router table and multiple routers means accurate, repeatable cuts.

On the mentor front, I have a quasi mentor in my sister. She has kept bees in Florida for several years. Unfortunately, that's a bit far to travel often. 
I'm not getting bees this year, unless by a stroke of luck. I just don't yet have the confidence to put thousands of lives at risk. I doubt I'll be ready next year and will probably kill many bees, but it won't be for a lack of trying to learn all I could before taking the plunge. Does that make sense? 

I have questions. I'll ask them in the appropriate places. Again, thank you to all.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Smokey, it sounds to me as if you lack some confidence in yourself on the beekeeping front. The best time to get into beekeeping is the spring and that means NOW! You will kill bees, we all do. Sometimes we make mistakes and kill a lot. So we learn from our mistakes and move on. The swarm trap I linked to in a previous post cost about 15 bucks each to make. A package around here goes for 135.00 Do the math. Even one swarm caught and you are ahead. The main thing is, there is no amount of reading or video watching that will prepare you to be a beekeeper. There is no magical point in time when suddenly you are ready. Keeping bees is hands on and a becoming a good beekeeper is a long journey that starts with the first step. Also, I'm jealous that you have multiple routers tables.


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## lobottomee (May 3, 2015)

Smokey, let's put a few things in perspective. Bees in their wild state will live in a hollow tree, an old tire, the cores in cement blocks, between floor joists, between the studs in a wall, in a soffit, and just about any other hollow spot you can think of. Your carpentry skills and those of Dadant or Mann Lake are totally irrelevant to the bees. If you decide you want to build your own stuff.... go crazy, it's your time to waste. I myself build everything. I get nearly as much enjoyment from building as I do keeping the bees, and along the way I get to experiment with some new ideas. Some of the ideas work out, others don't, but I can tell you this much, there are simpler ways to build wooden ware for bees than what's in the catalogs. Don't forget, you're competing with the space under the hood of a junk car so don't be afraid.

I will, however, agree with many others here. Don't wait, start now. It's fun. You will screw up, and you will kill bees, and you will not avoid it by waiting. Contrary to what you'd like to believe, you won't be smarter next year than this year; all you will do is screw up in different ways. So get on the learning curve now. 

I also say to heck with your mentor idea. The folks on this forum are as good as any mentor you'll find. If you want to avoid killing bees, study, read, research, ask questions, observe, and keep good notes. That's what the Masters did. They knew as much as you when they got their first hive; the difference is what they did after.

Keeping bees is supposed to be fun, so just give in, and have a bunch of fun!!


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Smoky
Do what you want but worrying about putting thousands of lives at risk is kind of a misnomer and a funny way of looking at things. Just look at swarms, 80 percent of them that issue die. So if that was the route you took first and caught one, you might be saving thousands of lives if you so want to look at bugs in that way. 
Do what you want though.
Cheers
gww


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

gww said:


> Smoky
> Do what you want but worrying about putting thousands of lives at risk is kind of a misnomer and a funny way of looking at things. Just look at swarms, 80 percent of them that issue die. So if that was the route you took first and caught one, you might be saving thousands of lives if you so want to look at bugs in that way.
> Do what you want though.
> Cheers
> gww


:thumbsup:


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## lemmje (Feb 23, 2015)

SmokeyHill, welcome! Wish i would have gotten in on this discussion a few days ago, but there is a lot of sound advice here already, and all i could really do is quote and agree with a lot of what is said. 

One word of caution: beekeeping as a hobby can be very addictive! But as a fellow gardener and woodworker, you already know all about addictive hobbies. Maybe add in hiking, fishing, backpacking, hunting....... i find it difficult to do all the things i want to do.


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## lemmje (Feb 23, 2015)

lobottomee said:


> Smokey, let's put a few things in perspective. Bees in their wild state will live in a hollow tree, an old tire, the cores in cement blocks, between floor joists, between the studs in a wall, in a soffit, and just about any other hollow spot you can think of. Your carpentry skills and those of Dadant or Mann Lake are totally irrelevant to the bees. If you decide you want to build your own stuff.... go crazy, it's your time to waste. I myself build everything. I get nearly as much enjoyment from building as I do keeping the bees, and along the way I get to experiment with some new ideas. Some of the ideas work out, others don't, but I can tell you this much, there are simpler ways to build wooden ware for bees than what's in the catalogs. Don't forget, you're competing with the space under the hood of a junk car so don't be afraid.
> 
> I will, however, agree with many others here. Don't wait, start now. It's fun. You will screw up, and you will kill bees, and you will not avoid it by waiting. Contrary to what you'd like to believe, you won't be smarter next year than this year; all you will do is screw up in different ways. So get on the learning curve now.
> 
> ...


Coming up on three years a member here with only 12 posts? Dude! You don't say much, but when you do, it's gold!


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## lobottomee (May 3, 2015)

lemmje said:


> Coming up on three years a member here with only 12 posts? Dude! You don't say much, but when you do, it's gold!


Thank you! Your comment made my day!


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## Susieb (Jun 11, 2017)

JTGaraas said:


> Why wait - you can read, and obviously can think! You are ready to start now, not later!


This, start this year. My daughters and I have spent the last two summers shadowing a couple of beekeepers and this spring the girls are getting bees of their own. We waited because of finances. Had we been able to start last year, they would have started last year. Sounds like you are ready to go this year.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

If you wait until you know everything you'll never get bees and you'll never know much... On the other hand if you don't try to learn what you can, you'll be posting pictures on beesource asking what those little white immobile worms in the bottoms of the cells are...


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

Smoky - there are several good beekeepers here that you can IM directly. I know of none that are not willing to help out a new keeper. Bush/Palmer/Ian/and several more here to help.


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## Hive5ive (Nov 21, 2015)

Hey Smokey, sorry you had a bad experience with the beeclub. I also have all the equipment to build my own hives. I don't! Frames are a buck each, after you build the first hundred you'll be glad you only have to put them together. As for boxes, tops and bottoms I don't think they would be bad. I have a friend (John) who makes the nicest medium nuc boxes that you would ever want to get your hands on. The amount of work that goes into those things are unimaginable. From my point of view it just makes sense to buy the stock equipment that matches. 
As for waiting, the sooner you start the sooner you will learn what works or doesn't work for you.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

SmokeyHill said:


> ...... how do you know that I would build an inferior frame?...


Don't worry about building something NOT inferior.
Bees don't care a bit of your frames or your hives or your shiny tools.

I don't even build many frames - too busy.
Pickup a stick from trash pile - here is your top bar. 
Done and it works.
Bees really don't care.















The bees - go and catch them.
I never bought any bees and have no such plans (save for few feral queens I got through mail, to be fair).
For sure, I would get busy building swarm traps just about now.


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## SmokeyHill (Feb 6, 2018)

Well, I decided to go half-way. I just ordered 2 five-frame nucs. The weather has been very nice for this time of year with record and near record highs. It's plenty warm enough to crank up the wood shop.

Oh boy. I don't even have a smoker.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Go for it. Change the width to 16-1/4" and make some 10 frame equipment! Might as well make a few more nucs too. By the time you have bees you will wish you had more of... well, everything.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Smokey
I made a smoker out of stove pipe and duct tape and used it the first year and it got me by but a regular smoker does work better. I made my first veil with window screen and it was also ok but I am using a very cheap smock off of ebay now. Ten bucks or so. Your tractor store or orchelins will have these things but it will be about ten bucks each more then you can get them for if you plan in advance. I am using a painters multi tool that I already had for a hive tool. I have used lether and the real thin hospital gloves and I like the hospital gloves best. I think bees can sting though them but I don't find they do and even if they rip (which they do alot) I still don't get stung unless I smash a bee. I wear shorts more then not and have a few paper coveralls when I am really messing with them. The smoker and viel are probly the most important things and the rest of the stuff, almost anything will work. I smoke myself and even with crocks on my feet, I usually have no issue.
Good luck
gww


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## cbay (Mar 27, 2017)

SmokeyHill said:


> Well, I decided to go half-way. I just ordered 2 five-frame nucs. The weather has been very nice for this time of year with record and near record highs. It's plenty warm enough to crank up the wood shop.
> 
> Oh boy. I don't even have a smoker.


GOING ONCE, GOING TWICE,,,,,SOLD!
Glad you listened to the collective wisdom on here. You will absolutely not regret it. 
Congrats on the leap of faith!


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