# Varroa Mite Vaporizer?



## cerezha (Oct 11, 2011)

Not commercial, treatment free - look horrifying to me:
- person breath all these vapors
- complicated setup - a generator, an air compressor, wires ...
- I do not know how they control a dose? For Oxalic acid dose is extremely important. Overdose will kill bees, underdose could create a super-mite.


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## mnbeekeeper (Jun 30, 2010)

BoTBees said:


> Has anyone heard of this thing? I saw it in an add in the American Bee Journal.
> 
> http://www.vmvaporizer.com/


i have not seen that yet. but i have been experimenting with a bug vaporizer you can buy at lowes or home depot. its a black flag bug vap. i have been mixing the oxalic acid with mineral oil and trying to vaporize that but it seems the oxalic does not want to dissolve very well in the mineral oil. i did try it with just water but does not vaporize as well. also there is the problem with it igniting and creating a quick blast of flame witch does burn a few bees if it happends when im sticking it right in the entrance. any one else have any thoughts on all this. i would sure like to get this to work. it seems fast. i have full protective gear. mast, gloves, goggles.


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## tommysnare (Jan 30, 2013)

hmmmm ... well we love our bees. i couldnt see 'vaporizing' them ever.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

tommysnare said:


> i couldnt see 'vaporizing' them ever.


Then you are missing out on a valuable mite fighting tool....


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## beehonest (Nov 3, 2011)

Never heard of this one, most guys make one out of a tin can and a glow plug.


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## Flyer Jim (Apr 22, 2004)

I went to demo of this thing in Modesto Ca last year ,looked pretty good. Must have been 10-12 keepers there no one was coughing or wheezing going on. I know one guy that got one,says he likes it. I might watch this thing in operation again, there is no green in the Ca foothills this year,so this could be dangerous.


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

> Overdose will kill bees, underdose could create a super-mite.


Where did you read this? Not my experience.


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

> Overdose will kill bees, underdose could create a super-mite.


Where did you read this? Not my experience.


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## swarm_trapper (Jun 19, 2003)

I talked to the guy last night sounds like a good idea. I dont like all the vapor floating around like on the video. The price was a touch more than i figured at 2800$. Has any one used vaporized OA with brood in the hive? Will three shots a week apart do it or will it hurt the hive. If any one knows of some one who has one id like to talk to them. 
Nick


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## WWW (Feb 6, 2011)

Nick,
I use OAV in the fall after the supers are pulled, I was doing 1 treatment per week for 3 weeks with no ill effects to the bees or the brood but after a conversation with Cam Bishop (camero7) I swiched to 1 treatment per week for 4 weeks which works well for the bees. The vaporizer that I use is the JB 200 Heilyser which last year was running around $100.00 from Canada, and this unit works great.

My bees have been coming through the winter strong and healthy since I started using OA and I only do the 1 four week treatment in the fall.

If you wish to talk further feel free to PM me I would be glad to have a chat.


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## johng (Nov 24, 2009)

Nick, I've tried it and it worked pretty good. I did not notice any ill effects on the bees with three treatments a week apart. I have stopped doing it basically because it took so long. You would almost have to get one of the expensive ones that are quick for it to be practical. The one I was using was a home aid one with a glow plug and a small pan.


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## cerezha (Oct 11, 2011)

camero7 said:


> Where did you read this? Not my experience.


 There is a Dissertation on Oxalic acid use against mites, I do not remember the author. The defender claims that Oxalic acid needs to be dosed very carefully for best results. If you interested, I could try to find the original.


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

cerezha said:


> There is a Dissertation on Oxalic acid use against mites, I do not remember the author. The defender claims that Oxalic acid needs to be dosed very carefully for best results. If you interested, I could try to find the original.


I believe that you are confusing OA drench with vaporization. I've read every study I could find and nowhere did I see anything about overdosing with OA vapor and no where did I see anything about a super mite being created with either method.


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## cerezha (Oct 11, 2011)

camero7 said:


> I believe that you are confusing OA drench with vaporization. I've read every study I could find and nowhere did I see anything about overdosing with OA vapor and no where did I see anything about a super mite being created with either method.


Hi Cam
If I remember properly, the Dissertation was studying many ways of OA application including dripping and vapors. In both cases it was shown that exact metered amount of OA is necessary. The defender also studied the efficiency between dripping and vapors. My understanding is that both methods are equally efficient, but defendant recommends dripping method. If you interested to read the whole thing, I could provide the link later, it is on another computer. I got that reference originally from some beesource thread.


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

I'd love to see the link, thanks.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

I have long forgotten where I got my "recipe" I only remember that it was based on testing of different concentrations. Fill a pail about 1/3rd full of warm (not hot) water and use that to thoroughly mix in 24 ozs. of OA. Then mix 20 lbs. of sugar and enough warm water to make 5 + gallons of liquid (I use a taller pail that makes nearly 6 gallons). By my calculations that makes a solution (by weight) in the mid 3% range. A single fall application when broodless applied in a thin stream between the frames directly on the cluster on a cool day really seems to do the job. Fast, easy and safe. I prefer applying down onto the bottom bars of an inverted hive as the openings are wider and the cluster more visible. I have even gotten an occassional splash in the eye with no I'll effects. I have never seen adverse effects on strong hives nor have I yet to see signs of resistance. My only safety warnings are to handle the acid itself very carefully and not to use water hot enough to steam while mixing or you will immediately notice lung irritation.


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## Wisnewbee (Apr 8, 2011)

Jim, thanks for the recipe. How much are you dribbling between frames? The same as Randy Oliver recommends, about 5ml? Are you doing the dribble while still in SD or are you waiting until you get to TX?

Wisnewbee
Honey Luv Farm


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

We apply it in SD in the fall when they are brood-less though it could just as easily be done in Texas in November. Yeah the 5ml per seam would be pretty close as I figure it. We are averaging around 1 1/2 fl. ozs. per hive doing a mix of singles and doubles. It's just a quick end to end motion with a thin low pressure stream.


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## Wisnewbee (Apr 8, 2011)

Thanks Jim. I should be able to follow your method here in Wisconsin. Similar climate. Are you using a low pressure sprayer or something like a drenching gun to apply the dribble?

Wisnewbee
Honey Luv Farm


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## GageFamilyBeekeeping (Mar 10, 2011)

tommysnare said:


> hmmmm ... well we love our bees. i couldnt see 'vaporizing' them ever.


This is a commercial forum, folks new at the business should listen and learn


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

They love them so much they sit and watch them die from varroa and virus.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

Are they wearing respirators? I've seen similar setups and the amount of vapors in the air is a little disturbing. I tried it last year and barely saw fumes come out the top of the hive and it that made me cough a little.


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

GageFamilyBeekeeping said:


> This is a commercial forum, folks new at the business should listen and learn


Facebook has the "LIKE" button I've heard. I'm glad Beesource doesn't have an "Agree" button. If it did I would have pounded the keyboard so hard on the above quote that I'm sure that even the folks in Boston would have felt the earthquake caused by my pent up release of consternation. All the "experts" who put their worthless two cents on subjects they have no clue about really make me wonder what the liability insurance costs the gentleman who owns this thing. :scratch:

Two things:

1. OA kills mites very well.
2. Looking at the video I'm not sure the operator or the viewers know the same can be said of humans. I didn't see as many caution warnings as would be wise to post.
One of my biggest remembrances of Apimondia Vancouver in 99 comes from talking with folks from Canada who warned me about its ill effect on beekeepers in the Plains region who had failed to use the proper safety gear and techniques when using OA. The only way I would use it via this method would be by wearing a full body positive pressure suit fed from a compressor hundreds of yards away. 

It seems way more prudent to replace dead bees with "good" ones than to replace your lungs with another pair of "good" ones. Please be careful folks.

Breath on............... :applause:


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## Steves1967 (May 16, 2012)

Is there a tutorial on using OA anywhere? This forum or anywhere else?

Never mind, I found the Randy Oliver article.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

tommysnare said:


> hmmmm ... well we love our bees. i couldnt see 'vaporizing' them ever.


But you will congest their population and force them to live in an artificial environment without taking responsibility for the consequences.


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## cerezha (Oct 11, 2011)

camero7 said:


> I'd love to see the link, thanks.


this is the link to the dissertation I mentioned earlier. I apologize for delay:
http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/entomologydiss/1/


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## RAK (May 2, 2010)

The study was not done on OA vapors. 

quote :"The trickle and spray methods of OA application were
employed in my dissertation research. I chose to exclude the evaporation method due to
inherent hazards to the applicator". p26 (Aliano 2008)


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## cerezha (Oct 11, 2011)

RAK said:


> The study was not done on OA vapors.
> 
> quote :"The trickle and spray methods of OA application were
> employed in my dissertation research. I chose to exclude the evaporation method due to
> inherent hazards to the applicator". p26 (Aliano 2008)


 I guess, I mixed up, sorry about that.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

> nowhere did I see anything about overdosing with OA vapor 

I had a particularly hot hive back when I was experimenting with OA vapor. I had heard of high queen losses with formic acid, so I thought I'd see if I could get them to requeen themselves by killing the queen with an OD of OA. It did kill the queen. It also killed a lot of bees. You can definitely overdose bees on OA vapor.


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## RAK (May 2, 2010)

How much did you overdose with? I tried 6 grams at once and saw no effects on queens, bees, or brood.


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

At normal doses I have yet to see any negative results from using OA vapor. I used it on one hive with DWV 6 weeks in a row and had no negative problems. That hive did recover.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>How much did you overdose with? I tried 6 grams at once and saw no effects on queens, bees, or brood. 

It's been a long time so my memory may be a little fuzzy on it now. It seems like I was giving a normal dose of 2 grams for a double deep hive. So I'm sure I used at least 6 grams. I closed the hive up pretty tight and I think it was one deep box.


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## VardO (Feb 16, 2016)

12 Volt Oxalic acid vaporizer ( 40 $ ! )

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-12-volt-.../321765516803?


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## Woodside (Aug 10, 2010)

what sort of time per hive is required


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## stevethebeeman (Mar 27, 2013)

We use one of these works great I treated almost 2000 hives in one day long day but got it done. Bees were all in one spot didn't have to travel


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## VMVaporizer (Jul 19, 2013)

Hi Tanner,

It depends what kind of hives you have, singles or doubles.

For singles usually it takes about 3-5 seconds.
For doubles usually it takes about 5-10 seconds.
Also it depends how many frames, how strong the hive is, etc.

Here's the best way to look for a full treatment; once the oxalic acid vapor starts to come out from the top lid of the hive (from all the cracks) that'll be your full treatment.


Great question!

Ed


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## VMVaporizer (Jul 19, 2013)

Thank you for the input Steve!

Do you mind submitting your review on our website? We'll greatly appreciate your feedback!
http://www.vmvaporizer.com/share-your-experience/

Thanks again,

Ed


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