# Hive ventilation going into winter



## Luterra (Sep 7, 2011)

Water dripping on bees is bad, but at the same time so is too much airflow through the hive, especially in cool weather. After seeing lots of moisture and mold last winter I decided to build moisture quilts:
http://www.honeybeesuite.com/how-to-make-a-moisture-quilt-for-a-langstroth-hive/

My design is a bit different, using 1/8" hardware cloth instead of fabric, 1x4s for the frame, and including a 1x6 across the center with a round hole cut for inverted-jar hive-top feeding. It is essentially a four-in-one spacer rim for patties/candy (1" space between top bars and screen), ventilated inner cover (with feeder hole plugged), hive-top feeder (with half-gallon jars and an empty super on top below the telescoping cover), and moisture quilt (feeder hole plugged, filled with cedar chips). If it works as planned this winter I'll share the design in more detail.

Mark


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## scdw43 (Aug 14, 2008)

Wet bees will die quick in cold weather, but dry bees with enough feed will live in very cold weather, well below zero. Put a piece of 1" styrofoam between your telescoping cover and your inner cover it will stop the condensation. Turn the notch on your inner cover down toward the brood chamber, this will let the condensation out. Just my two cents and what I do.

David


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## AndrewJ (Sep 22, 2012)

Mark, thanks, this is an interesting idea. If you are happy with it I would be thankful for pictures at some point. 

David, I have some styrofoam left over from a purchase, I will try that.


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## jadell (Jun 19, 2011)

I would add that I wouldn't put another box on them this time of year.


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## AndrewJ (Sep 22, 2012)

jadell said:


> I would add that I wouldn't put another box on them this time of year.


Thank you you for the advice.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Andrew, your hive should be tipped forward so the condensation runs to the front wall, down and out the hive. I do not like the blanket or wick idea because it doesn't get the moisture out of the hive it traps it until it can't trap it anymore. I know, some people swear by it but most people don't use this method. If you insulate the top cover you will get much less condensation.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

I have several things in mind for this winter.

1. candy boards if I find I need them. they also serve to absorb excess moisture.

2. possibly a quilt board fo some sort but I am a bit in agreement with Ace. Moisture causes more problems than just getting bees wet and killing them. Most likely best to get it out of the hive. Btu I do have some reservations as to how completely this is accomplished. I have also seen information that says the bees use some of that moisture through the winter as well.

3. simply placing a small wedge under the inner cover to allow ventilation. At least something along that line. 

I live in an extremely dry climate so I am expecting moisture in the hive to be relatively easy to manage.


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## danno (Dec 17, 2007)

I have about 70 colonies that I winter in michigan. Each has one of these allseason inner covers year round. In fall I buy bails of straw and stuff about a 3" think square or book in each. It vents, absorbs and insulates. 

http://www.honeyrunapiaries.com/store/all-season-inner-cover-frame-p-266.html


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

deleted. Post was not related to the link.


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## NonTypicalCPA (Jul 12, 2012)

danno said:


> I have about 70 colonies that I winter in michigan. Each has one of these allseason inner covers year round. In fall I buy bails of straw and stuff about a 3" think square or book in each. It vents, absorbs and insulates.
> 
> http://www.honeyrunapiaries.com/store/all-season-inner-cover-frame-p-266.html


I like this top, however with all those vent holes wouldn't robbing be an issue with the insulation out? With the insulation in do you tape closed the center hole over the frames to prevent the bees from chewing on the insulation?


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## danno (Dec 17, 2007)

NonTypicalCPA said:


> I like this top, however with all those vent holes wouldn't robbing be an issue with the insulation out? With the insulation in do you tape closed the center hole over the frames to prevent the bees from chewing on the insulation?


all the vent holes are screened with #8 wire so no on the robbing. I also use the covers for storing mouse guards and robber screens for each colony.


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## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

From my expereince, robbing is not a problem. 

I place an inner cover on top of my brood supers and then place a vent box similar to above product on next. I then place extracted frames in a super above the vent box. Hive is in a shed, so use a well vented(3 1/2 inch screened center opening and 2 x 1 3/8 screened holes) inner cover only on top of extracted frame super. My thinking is to keep the super of extracted frames cool, so bees move honey down in the day but will not set up home in them.

In summer, only have the same well vented inner cover as my hive top.

No robbing issues in strong hives.


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## AndrewJ (Sep 22, 2012)

Acebird said:


> Andrew, your hive should be tipped forward so the condensation runs to the front wall, down and out the hive.


When I set up the hive I did do that, but I have not checked since to see if the hive has settled. I will put a level on the cover tonight. Thanks for the reminder.

Thanks also to all the responses and good advice and options to consider.


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## wanderyr (Feb 11, 2012)

AndrewJ said:


> David, I have some styrofoam left over from a purchase, I will try that.


Make sure you screen off the hole in the center of your inner cover, so the bees can't get to the styrofoam...

Good luck!


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## danno (Dec 17, 2007)

styrofoam wont breath. This is why I use straw. As for tipping the hive forward. Mine are on 4 way pallets so this is impossible but with a vented cover and straw it isn't nessessary. I dont get moisture build up. Snow doesn't even melt off the covers. This system along with a couple of other things I do has kept my winter deadout well below 10% beating the state average by over 15%


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

wanderyr said:


> Make sure you screen off the hole in the center of your inner cover, so the bees can't get to the styrofoam...
> 
> Good luck!


Will the bees chew the styrofoam?


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## danno (Dec 17, 2007)

zhiv9 said:


> Will the bees chew the styrofoam?


yes they will I have used fiberglass insulation and they chew it also


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## LeonardS (Mar 13, 2012)

danno said:


> yes they will I have used fiberglass insulation and they chew it also


Someone had said that the bees will chew the white styrofoam insulation, but not the pink or blue. Is this true?


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## Keth Comollo (Nov 4, 2011)

The love chewing the blue 2" thick stuff.


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## LeonardS (Mar 13, 2012)

Well, that shoots my idea of putting a candy board on top of two deeps, then an inner cover, blue insulation with a trail to the upper entrance and then the telescoping cover. Hmmm, now what?


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## Keth Comollo (Nov 4, 2011)

Just put duct tape over the hole in the innercover. Bees won't touch the stuff.


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

Do you have a plastic telescoping cover? If so, get or make a wooden one and the problem will go away.

Plastic covers have killed a couple hive at my brothers -- water drips off them onto the inner cover and then drips through and into the cluster. Always had water on top of the inner cover, mold everywhere, nasty.

Made wooden covers and this year his remaining hive is bone dry, so are mine. 

Leave the notch in the inner cover exposed, if there isn't one, cut one on the deep side. This will let damp air out easily.

If you put a candy board on, cut a notch in the bottom edge 3/8" deep and an inch or so wide, this will give adequate ventilation and an upper entrance for the bees, that way you won't have to clear the bottom entrance of snow.

Peter


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

danno said:


> As for tipping the hive forward. Mine are on 4 way pallets so this is impossible but with a vented cover and straw it isn't nessessary.


Very few things are impossible but if you have found happiness with what you are doing so be it.


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## danno (Dec 17, 2007)

LeonardS said:


> Well, that shoots my idea of putting a candy board on top of two deeps, then an inner cover, blue insulation with a trail to the upper entrance and then the telescoping cover. Hmmm, now what?


I dont think you understanding a vented cover. The entrance is on the underside. The bees dont have to come up into the box to exit. I use 1" shims w/ 1 or 2 candy boards under the vented cover. 
"Just put duct tape over the hole in the innercover" The whole idea of venting off moisture is to give it a place to go. Not seal it in.
"Do you have a plastic telescoping cover" The material the cover is made out of in unimportant. With venting moisture droplets never form


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## danno (Dec 17, 2007)

Here is a link to the shop drawings for the all season cover

http://www.honeyrunapiaries.com/plans/all_season_inner.pdf


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## MeriB (Mar 15, 2010)

Hi Andrew,
I am in Coatesville, just west of you. I am in my second year with 4 hives. I have my screened bottom open all year, including lasi winter, I bought Brushy Mountains winter inner covers and made candy boards in them for moisture control. I had no problems. I also did not wrap them. I put dried leaves around all of them (they are all up on cinderblocks), Then I used hay bales and wood boards around to block the wind. I alos put on the BM metal entrance guards for mice and left them wide open. They did well with this arraingement. PM me if you have any questions
Blessed Be!
Meridith


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## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

I have been using the all season ventilated cover for almost two years now and l love them! Although I live in CA and don't need to insulate them they have been great for the hot summer weather! I have not had any bearding issues at all and I also run SBB. I make my own as well and make the inner hole about six inches in diameter and when I need to feed I just place a bucket feeder on and put an empty medium on and replace the cover! I do also like the storage option it provides!


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