# Queen rearing 10 frame nuc box?



## mnflemish (Jun 7, 2010)

I would like to take a 10 frame deep and put a divider board in the middle so that I can have 2 frames with queen cells in the works at once, one on each side. This year so many queens just quit laying after a couple months and need to be replaced from the packages. So has anyone done a 10 frame deep queen duplex and what advise can you give me to make this work? 
Carol


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Yes, but how many cells do you want in each 1/2?


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## Riverratbees (Feb 10, 2010)

That is how I mate my queens. 5 frame nuc into a mateing hive. 2 per nuc. make my own frames works great.


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## mnflemish (Jun 7, 2010)

I was going to put 4 frames on each side and feeder(if need be). Frame of nectar, pollen, frame with queen cells, larvae & brood to keep nurse bees. So yes, 1/2 on each side.


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## Pandr (Jul 14, 2012)

If you do a search for "Prince William Beekeeping Vimeo" you should get to see a few videos that tackle this issue. Michael Palmer does a two part one about nucs.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Oh I get it, you will use it as a mating nuc, I thought you meant you would use it for cell raising.

It will work many people do it.


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## mnflemish (Jun 7, 2010)

Oldtimer said:


> Oh I get it, you will use it as a mating nuc, I thought you meant you would use it for cell raising.
> 
> It will work many people do it.


I'm not a seasoned beekeeper and yea I guess that's what you would call what I'm trying to accomplish, a mating nuc. Do I need to keep entrances separate like having the middle area of the entrance blocked so they only enter about 6 inches on each outside edge for each nuc side? Do I need to make 2 separate inner covers? Using a 10 frame deep what do I need to do special to use it for a double mating nuc?


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

For nucs that size you would normally give them an entrance about 2 or 3 inches wide, and on opposite sides of the box, yes. The small entrances is because robbing can be an issue for nucs. You can make two inner covers, one, or some people use a piece of burlap stapled along the middle divider, anything long as it's impossible for the two queens to get at each other.

What do you need to do special to make a deep a double mating nuc? well, just about every configuration imaginable is being used by someone. Long as you have a divider, some inner cover configuration that prevents queen contact, and an entrance each, that's pretty much all you need.


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

Flemish- When building my boxes, I saw 3 vertical slots in the short ends, spaced to place dividers at 3x3, 2x5, full 10-frame, or 7/3 queen isolation configurations. My boxes are 10-frame standard Langstroths, and as of now I'm using both deeps and mediums. As 6 5/8" Illinois medium boxes, and all new frames built to match. The heaviest these ever get is about 50 lbs. The full size 9 5/8" deep brood boxes can go about 90 lbs. I wish I had started with all mediums and had only one size of frames.

These vertical slots I'm talking about are 1/4" wide and 3/16" deep (only half the width of the ledge that the frame tabs sit upon). I use a dado on the table saw, but one could use a guide and a hand router, a router table, even a hand saw and a 1/4" chisel.

I cut dividers from 1/4" plywood to fit it rather snug, and sand until it slides in well. The dividers need to go all the way to the floor, and to the inner cover or burlap (as Oldtimer suggested). The dividers also have "tabs" that prevent the queens from getting around the ends at the shelf where the frames hang. These do not have slots up in the shelf area, but rather fit close enough that bees cannot pass around the end.

The 3x3 configuration uses 2 dividers in the two outer slots and is for mating nucs with 3 standard frames in each chamber, my favorite mating nuc, as I experience less absconding from the mating nucs like this than with baby nucs, and just standard frames are used. The bottom boards have small entrances as far apart as they can be from each other - one to the East, one to the North, one the the South.

The 2x5 configuration uses one divider in the middle slot and is for double 5-frame nucs to keep them warm for overwintering. Small colonies going into winter go into this configuration resting atop a strong colony and a double screen board. Their only exit is a cork hole. I make special half-wide inner covers for this configuration. These bees get 4 frames and single frame feeder. You have to watch them - when they are fed, you can get winter increase, and they may have to be moved into 10-frame boxes with 7 frames and a Mann Lake 2 gallon feeder before winter is over.

The 7/3 configuration uses one divider with queen excluder material on it in one of the end slots. It is for isolating a breeder queen on 3 combs while laying eggs, which makes it easy to find eggs if you're trying to graft or cut cells to make queens.

All my 10-frame deeps are built like this, so I can use any one for any of these 4 configurations. The special bottom boards flip and have a SBB on one side, and a 2x5 slot on the other, or an SBB on one side or a 3x3 on the other. The only items that do no serve multiple purpose are the narrow- and half- inner covers. The boxes all have 6 cork holes (one on each short end of each chamber) and I do keep PLENTY of corks in a separate tackle box, in my pockets, in my bee suit duffle, etc.

I use an empty deep instead of a frame holder, as it is much more secure, and can hold 9 frames (well, 10, that's up to you). 

If you are raising queens, and using a colony as a queen cell starter, it needs to be QUEENLESS, CROWDED, and WELL-FED. Oldtimer uses a 6-frame nuc with screened sides for ventilation, I just use a 10-frame box, even a 5-frame nuc works fine.

If you are using a colony for a cell finisher, most guys prefer that it is queenright. Either way, it should be a very, very strong colony, and again, WELL-FED, at least until the cells are capped. I use a colony that is 3 boxes tall, and put a Cloake board between the top 2 boxes. Cloake board in, the top box is a queenless cell starter, Cloake board out, the whole colony is a queenright cell finisher. 3 days before queens hatch, cut and separate the queen cells, and plant them top center into brood frames and put them with a scoop of workers into the 3x3 configuration (1 frame of honey, 1 frame of pollen/honey, and 1 brood frame with a queen cell). It helps to move the 3x3 hatching/mating boxes to a different location.

I hope this helps.


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## Mountain Bee (Apr 7, 2012)

Kilocharlie do you lock the bees up in your mating nucs for a day or so after making them up, I am assuming that you make these mating nucs up at least 24 hours before introducing your queen cells. And if you went with 1 frame of honey/pollen,1 frame of brood with a queen cell,all the adhering bees and put a frame feeder in place of the third frame would that be cutting it a little close to get off to a good start?


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

I only give the mating nuc's a 32 oz drink cup of mixed bees, not all the adhering bees. That goes on 2 frames plus a single frame feeder in a 3x3 arranged deep Langstroth.

Late-spring and summer increase nuc's get adhering bees only on the brood, plus a drink cup. That is in a double nuc (2x5-frame) with 4 frames and a single frame feeder.

Over-winter nuc's are a different matter especially if you are in cold country. Ask Michael Palmer...I'm from the magic land of winter increase and blooming eucalyptus


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## Keth Comollo (Nov 4, 2011)

I use double nucs for mating nucs. They have three frames and a frame feeder with 2 qts of syrup. That is enough to get them through mating. The last batch of cells that I put in it become my overwintered nucs (around mid-July). After she is mated and laying I pull out the frame feeder and put in a frame of foundation. Once that frame is about 70% drawn out I add a super above with four frames of foundation. That keeps them busy on the fall flow and hopefully they fill those four frames in the super with honey which should get them through winter. If they haven't filled em by the middle of Sept. on go the feeders fast and furious to give them help.


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