# Cotton rope and Mineral Oil



## northbee (Apr 16, 2009)

what kind of mite is he trying to controll?


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## John V (Jun 7, 2010)

I believe they were varroa and tracheal. I'll have to double check with him to make sure.

Later, John


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

That's a procedure that Dr. Pedro Rodriquez developed the FGMO.
FYI:
http://www.apicultura.com.ar/apis47en.html
Ernie


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## John V (Jun 7, 2010)

Thanks Ernie. I feel reassured now. I've got some more ready to do....

Later, John


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## Rick 1456 (Jun 22, 2010)

Any advantage to adding wintergreen oil to the mineral oil?? How bout laying the rope across the entrance so bees must come in contact with it?
I like this idea Thanks
Rick


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Most of the bees are inside the hive. Only a small percentage of them leave and come back. better exposure inside.

I didn't understand, is that one strand of the mop head per colony laid across the frames? Or what? Clarification would be nice, thank you.


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## John V (Jun 7, 2010)

He says he uses this method to control "mites". He said it works for them all, however, I would make sure before I actually trusted it. The link above only mentions varroa. He lays five or six across the tops of the frames of the brood chambers. I asked him about supering with them on and he said he does. Thats when he told me about having his equipment tested, and it came back negative with residue. I'm not sure how often he changes them, though. I'll have to ask him. I put some on last weekend and it seems they dried out REAL fast. I'll get some more details by Sunday.

Later, John


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## MikeJ (Jan 1, 2009)

Mineral oil shouldn't dry out very fast.
This is a very interesting idea.
Even if traces were found it wouldn't hurt anything I can think of (mineral oil is edible).

I would like to hear as much information as you collect on it.

Mike


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## N2ishon (Jun 24, 2010)

Anyone here know what kind of mineral oil should be used for varroa mite control on cords and where is a source of it?? Can I use any product sold at the drug store?- or do I need to specify glymol or liquid parafin? I have see some posts saying that if the oil is too viscus, the bees will die.


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## MikeJ (Jan 1, 2009)

Mineral oil is sold in the pharmacy area of walmart, or any drug store.
I imagine you need to use the same mineral oil you would take for regularity.

Mike


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## N2ishon (Jun 24, 2010)

Hey thanks Mike.

I have view several old posts here, and after viewing I suppose I'll add some honey and wintergreen oil to my cords and have the bees go at it. I don't have a fogger yet. And I probably wont invest in one or the thymol crystals to dissolve into the oil. I have read that putting a sweet pipe tobacco in your smoker and puffing a closed hive for a few minutes or a powdered sugar shake down is about as effective to control the population of mites.

Next I'll try walnut leaves, catnip and finally copper rings with magnets on top of hive body frames!. Where are the Universities and scientific publications on this stuff indicating proof they work and the techniques best applied? Too much black magic and art in this business. More science is needed.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Just curious, since I know how the powers that be feel about promotion of off label use of chemical pesticides, what about the promotion of off label use of a non-pesticide? Or, in this case, would mineral oil be considered a pesticide since it is being used to control a pest? Which is the definition of a pesticide, after all.

maybe a disclaimer such as this is what so and so does, but i don't recommend it, would be proper?


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## MikeJ (Jan 1, 2009)

Mineral Oil is a petroleum product - and is used for many things including regularity. It is (as far as we know) harmless when used as directed (meaning don't drink the whole bottle).

I doubt there would be any regulation problems since it is a FDA approved product... If there was a problem then the paint on the hive, the wood, etc. would be a problem.

Copper rings? 

Mike


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## Rick 1456 (Jun 22, 2010)

Hey,
I'm new to this forum, so, I don't have a reputation or much care. I've been on other forums and it seems there are always those that do not have anything better to do than to stab at others trying to make their lousy lives appear better. To the authors of post 12 and 13,,,,,get a life somewhere other than computer forums. I'm sure you have ALL the answers. I'm not interested because of the price that has to be paid.
Good bye
Rick


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Rick 1456 said:


> Hey,
> I'm new to this forum, so, I don't have a reputation or much care. I've been on other forums and it seems there are always those that do not have anything better to do than to stab at others trying to make their lousy lives appear better. To the authors of post 12 and 13,,,,,get a life somewhere other than computer forums. I'm sure you have ALL the answers. I'm not interested because of the price that has to be paid.
> Good bye
> Rick



Welcome aboard Rick. You seem to have fit right in. Be sure to go through the steps to be able to enter tailgater and you can really let loose.

I was asking a real and serious question. There is nothing wrong w/ using a particular material if you are using it responsibly. But, if you or anyone else is promoting the use of a product in an irresponsible way, I believe that that is illegal and may even be actionable. I don't know if this use of mineral oil falls into this category. I would like to know. I certainly don't have all the answers.

Maybe before you start slinging mud you should spend some time getting to know who you are about to sling mud at. Seems to me that since I have been here almost infinitly longer than you thatI deserve some level of respect, if not me then the questions that I ask.

Good by to you sir,
Mark


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## MikeJ (Jan 1, 2009)

Rick - Relax  What is the big deal if people do make fun of me, you, or anyone else? They will do it and you can't stop it - and telling them off usually just makes them happy lol.

.......

The danger of using mineral oil in a hive? Having to go to the bathroom.
It is used as a food contact wood finish and for direct internal use. FDA approved if it helps. I haven't a clue if it will help with varroa or any other problem - but the "Scientists" say its safe 

.......

As to the "studies", and were are the universities and "science". (by the way you may be interested to find out where universities came from).

Where are the studies that prove the scientific studies are right? I wouldn't rely too much on the studies since they will most likely (if the past proves anything) do a 180 in a couple of months.

I assume your getting at that this treatment is akin to voodoo and other silly things (when you refer to copper rings, magnets, etc.). Actually a lot of the different common items we use everyday can be put to purpose in many other ways. As for the tabacco you mention, it does cause mite drop. You do seem to have the method a little wrong though.

I don't deny poisons kill well. That is their purpose. My only problem is when people pour chemicals into their hives (or food, or whatever) to kill something and somehow think it will of course not effect them or their customers. I guess that is a scientific method?

The "science" you want to follow so closely gave you the problems you have today. A great example is the dairy business. It used to be that small amounts of milk was produced and used locally. The milk was edible and healthy. Contrary to what they would like you to believe it did not commonly make people sick. That began when the farmers began operating their farms according to the "scientific" methods. Chemicals, Feeds, etc. were developed to increase milk production (this includes feeds derived from other cows. It just didn't occur to people that feeding a cow another cow might cause problems.). This mass-produced milk was unhealthy and caused sickness since it was derived from sickly animals in unhealthy environments - the milk was not produced in a clean manor (you have to cut somewhere to get bigger and better). So incomes the great "scientific" idea to pasteurize the milk (or cook it as it really is). This would kill all those germs that were making people sick now (not to mention so many of the things that made milk healthy). Of course we find it doesn't always work. There are cases in which the milk doesn't get heated right, or some other problems and then people still get sick and die. There is an ingredients list on your jug now 

See the "scientific method" seems in reality to develop something that ends up causing a problem that then will need a solution (even a bad solution in a very bad situation will appear great). I call it job security.

(just in case.... It applies to the bee business as well. There now I'm back "on topic" )

Mike


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Oh my, I guess enough time has lapsed that what's old is new again. 
Dr. Pedro R promoted the use of FGMO how many years ago now? I use to have all his stuff here but it got a little to hot here and he decided to leave and asked that all his stuff be removed. It's all out there in archives at various places. I haven't heard anything new from him for years. It would be nice to get an update on his work, if he's still doing it. Anybody know?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

MikeJ said:


> Mineral Oil is a petroleum product - and is used for many things including regularity. It is (as far as we know) harmless when used as directed (meaning don't drink the whole bottle).
> 
> I doubt there would be any regulation problems since it is a FDA approved product... If there was a problem then the paint on the hive, the wood, etc. would be a problem.
> 
> ...



Yeah, copper rings? Where did that come from? Copper braclets for arthritis sufferers? I don't know.

Mike, I didn't think that my questions were berating of you or the author of the op who brought this idea to the forum. If you took it that way, Sorry. I was asking a question, perhaps more philosophical than reality based. But, is off label use of a product legal? I know that off label use and the promoting of it in regards to materials such as Tactic, a miticide, is not proper and we shouldn't do it. Does that pertain to "non-toxic" materials also? Regardless of being harmful or not?


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## John V (Jun 7, 2010)

This is what so and so does, but i don't recommend it. I was just curious if this was a standard practice or if others had heard of it.

Later, John


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Nope, haven't.


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## MikeJ (Jan 1, 2009)

sqkcrk - I didn't think you were. (I still can't believe Barry didn't pull my last post as being off topic - my example got long winded).

Obviously if I tell someone to do something harmful I'm partially responsible (the person still has to be mostly responsibile for acting on it). So yeah - we need to be careful what we say (God tells us that).

I know what your saying. A lot of things now even carry labels saying it is illegal to use it in any other manner than that directed.
I just think that if a product known not to be harmful then you can try it if you want -that doesn't mean it will have any real benefits (while I don't like the chemicals are thrown around I also realize that a lot of the "natural" ideas do not perform as advertised  ). Of course non-harmful sometimes just means a certain threshold of "harmful" is acceptable. 

We pump smoke into the hives all the time, we feed sugar (not a natural bee feed), foundation is known to have some traces of chemicals, wood I'm sure isn't pure either, we also paint the hives. So we do put a lot of stuff in the hives that we simply accept as harmless (or at least most do).

Mike

P.S. - Barry: There seems to be some new smiley in there :scratch:


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## Rick 1456 (Jun 22, 2010)

sqkcrk said:


> Welcome aboard Rick. You seem to have fit right in. Be sure to go through the steps to be able to enter tailgater and you can really let loose.
> 
> I was asking a real and serious question. There is nothing wrong w/ using a particular material if you are using it responsibly. But, if you or anyone else is promoting the use of a product in an irresponsible way, I believe that that is illegal and may even be actionable. I don't know if this use of mineral oil falls into this category. I would like to know. I certainly don't have all the answers.
> 
> ...


Mark,
My sincerest apology to you sir. My disdain was directed at the previous posts reference to "magnets" and the like. In the future I will allow the moderator to do decide. Thankyou for your response. rick


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## Fishdude123 (Jul 28, 2008)

My wife swallowed about 1/2 cup of mineral oil to induce labor at her doctors direction. It worked as well as made her very regular for a short period. She said it wasn't a very pleasant experience. I doubt there is any way you could get enough in the honey that it would be edible in high concentrations.


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## Omie (Nov 10, 2009)

So this cotton mop string/mineral oil idea seems to have similar intended purpose as Crisco grease patties, right?


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## Rick 1456 (Jun 22, 2010)

After sifting through this,,,,,,,,,,,my inexperienced opinion,,,,,,,,,same thing, different delivery system. what you think will work for you.
Rick


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## MikeJ (Jan 1, 2009)

Not sure what you mean. Grease patties (as I understood it) masked the scent or something about the bees and confused trac. mites.
I do not know if the idea behind this is to confuse varroa or not? Is it supposed to confuse them or kill them?

Mike


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## OrionBee (May 12, 2010)

The one thing that may or may not be relavent about the copper rings is, depending on the batch, there is sometimes trace amounts of arsenic in it, which have been used in pesticides for a number of years thus meaning that it could add a poison to the hive... In the process, it takes quite a while for arsenic to break down depending on the structure of the arsenic molecule.

just my 2 cents worth of info that my have some relevance to using that in a beehive.


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## Omie (Nov 10, 2009)

MikeJ,
Not that I know a lot about any of it, but what I've read is this theory: the action of Crisco: the bees eat it and the grease somehow suffocates or dislodges tracheal mites. Also the bees get it on themselves while eating/walking over it, and then they aggressively groom themselves and dislodge some mites, and also that the grease makes it harder for the mites to keep hold on the bees' hairs. Also that if you add wintergreen or thyme oil to the patties it repels the varroa mites. (maybe that's what they meant by masking a scent?) I would imagine FGMO does some of the same things Crisco does. All this is various stuff I've read from various sources, I don't know if it works. But I am feeding my bees small patties of Crisco mixed with sugar, honey, wintergreen, lemongrass and thyme oils. They seem to enjoy eating them, and I'm not going to use formic acid or other mite preparations. i also will be pulling some drone frames periodically to knock out mites. We'll see how my bees do come Fall. 
The cotton-mop-rope/mineral oil thing is an interesting idea. But i kind of enjoy making my girls little minty crisco patties. :lookout: And it's cute to see them lined up all around the patty that's laid atop the frames on a paper square, eating daintily in a circle like kittens around a saucer of milk.


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## Rick 1456 (Jun 22, 2010)

Omie,
That's pretty much my understanding as well. I put my mix in a "jerky Gun." I use the meat stick tip and run a bead across the hive entrance in such a position that the bees have to come in contact with it to leave or enter the hive. This includes the young hive bees that go on orientation flights hopefully. My thinking is that it physically gets on more bees this way and they still feed on it too. Assuming it works by making the bee/mite relationship slippery, would or could mites fall off bees leaving the hive, or keep mites off foragers???
rick So Md


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Interesting idea there Rick. What about shb? Or are they not a problem where you are? I bet it doesn't last too long in the MD heat and humidity.

Oh how I miss those MD muggy summer nights w/out air conditioning.


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## Rick 1456 (Jun 22, 2010)

Hey Mark,
As they say, even blind squirrel gets an acorn once in a while
I have not seen any SHB in my 3 hives at my house but I have only had them a short time. The 5 in St Marys Co. have had them. We used "Miteaway" for them but do not plan to go that route anymore. I have been using the Crisco w/ wintergreen in those but the jury is still out.
AAAAhhhh the hot muggy days of summer. We had air conditioning when I grew up,,,,,but it was Mom and Dads' room
Rick Fisher


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## Bud Dingler (Feb 8, 2008)

not one scientific reference or article here, a lot of "I think"ing going on. how do I say this nicely. 

if a rope of mineral oil worked at all, don't you think after twenty years of massive losses to varroa mites that thousands of commercial and sideliner beekeepers would be using it? 

in my view this idea is a complete waste of time. 

put a drone comb in your hive or use the powered sugar dump if you want a non chem method of controlling varroa that has a large body of science behind it showing that it works.


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## Omie (Nov 10, 2009)

Bud Dingler said:


> not one scientific reference or article here, a lot of "I think"ing going on....
> in my view this idea is a complete waste of time.
> put a drone comb in your hive or use the powered sugar dump if you want a non chem method of controlling varroa that has a large body of science behind it showing that it works.


That's fine Bud. Of course everyone has their own views of what beekeeping practices are a waste of time, safe, effective, or harmful. What's considered good practice today might well be considered poor practice 50 years from now. Folk remedies have often been proven effective after being dismissed for decades as unscientific and unsound. 

I use a drone frame to help with varroa control and monitoring. I might use powdered sugar 'dump' if I get a drone pupae check that shows an increase in mites. Or not. I like the theory and practice of using wintergreen type grease patties, so I may continue that too as long as my bees seem to be thriving. Personally, I don't think I'll be putting any cotton strings with mineral oil in my hives, though it's an interesting idea and theory.


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## Rick 1456 (Jun 22, 2010)

Omie,
I don't see me putting cotton rope in a IPM either. "Out of the box" ideas catch my attention and i like to look at them, possibly persue them if they have merit, or dismiss them if not. I don't see this one but at one time it may have been the "Hot Lick" till the "Crisco and wintergreen Nut" came along 
Still don't see the magnet thing.:scratch:
Rick Fisher SoMd


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## MikeJ (Jan 1, 2009)

Bud Dingler said:


> not one scientific reference or article here...


Good let's keep so much of that bad information out of this. "Scientific" studies usually are so flawed they change very often.

I much rather pay attention to someone who has years experience working the bees, who says something will work - not that it actually may, but it is a better chance.



Bud Dingler said:


> in my view this idea is a complete waste of time....


That is fine. We aren't talking about something important like God here so that view on this subject is completely acceptable.



Bud Dingler said:


> put a drone comb in your hive or use the powered sugar dump ... that has a large body of science behind it showing that it works.


Sugar drops have the "scientific community" behind it? Examine who you trust before you trust them 

Mike


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

*Blue Shop Towels*

Many if not most of these recipes work as long as they are applied with BLUE SHOP TOWELS, like you get at the auto parts store. This is very important for efficacy.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

*Re: Blue Shop Towels*

What if you just threw BLUE SHOP TOWELS in your hives, would that be effective against mites?

 Hey Rick, who you calling a blind squirrel? I ain't blind.


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

Mark, all indications are that they need to be SOAKED in something first, not just the towel alone. 

Have you checked the national sales data for BLUE SHOP TOWEL Corp. lately? Very interesting.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

Rick 1456
You might be interested in what is called tracking strips that are placed in the entrance so the bees have to walk through the "stuff"
Some people used plexiglass to smear the "stuff" over the strip and it can be re-used.
Ernie


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## BearHill (Dec 31, 2009)

A long-time commercial beekeeper gave a presentation to the local bee club on this topic a few years back and had a slightly different formula: food-grade mineral oil, thymol, honey and beeswax. He would soak upholstery cord in the mixture and place a length of it in each of his hives in the fall. I'm fairly certain he said it worked on both kinds of mites. His story was encouraging, but I never got around to trying it myself.


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## oldrockbees (May 16, 2010)

Interesting thoughts on the cotton rope and fgmo. I like the idea vs. using what i think would be harsher treatments with the normal pesticides. My question is when would you put the ropes on the hives and for how long? Also, do you just put in brood boxes or in the honey supers as well? Would that have any affect on the honey taken out for our use?


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## N2ishon (Jun 24, 2010)

I use a 30 inch piece of cord and make an "s" across the tops of brood frames. There is no reason it connot be used on honey supers, but I don't use them there. I havn't used the thymol yet, but I would refrain from thymol with honey supers. There is no effect from the fgmo on honey. The bees work out the cord into schreds over time, coating their thorax with oil which retard the attachment of mites.


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## oldrockbees (May 16, 2010)

Thanks for the info. I might try this as treatment. My other question with this treatment is when to do it? Is there a better time that others to use this cotton rope and mineral oil, or do you do it year round?


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## svbeeco (Feb 12, 2010)

It seems there is interest in using coconut oil introduced to hives via cotton "Facial Pads" See: http://nutiva.com/articles/colony-collapse-disorder/ 

Perhaps the cotton rope may also work well with this oil. Dr. Mussen (UC Davis) is supposed to be doing a trial to see if there is any usefullness in coconut oil as a treatment for Varroa.

Bill


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