# What is your State's Pollinator Protection Plan like?



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

President Obama called for each State to come up with their own Pollinator Protection Plan to address the problems that Beekeepers are having with Pesticide Applicators, lack of healthy forage and other things. Does your State have a Plan? Have you been involved in the development of such a plan? This is going to be done folks. How should we as beekeepers be involved? 

One excerpt from the ND Plan reads as thus: "Work constructively with applicators when notified of upcoming pesticideapplications. One of the recommended BMPs for pesticide applicators is to contact nearbybeekeepers prior to making pesticide applications. Block, move, or net hives when applicators inform you they are going to apply pesticides, or find other strategies to allowpesticide applicators to manage pests while minimizing pesticide exposure by bees."

Some folks are concerned that what this plan, or others like it, will do is give pesticide applicators an out when they spray and kill bee hives. "We told the beekeeper that we were going to spray." Once you have your hives set in their Summer Yards, how practical is it to "Block, move, or net hives" without doing harm to them and negatively impacting your honey crop? I don't see how it is practical at all, unless one drastically alters one's management practices and equipment.

The North Dakota Plan: https://mail-attachment.googleuserc...vXUhnghi_p_k&sads=6--aR_Tse5_Ce89ksmWJcNO5f1U

If anyone has been involved in the development and production of the ND Plan I would like to hear from you.


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## smoore (Feb 1, 2012)

Florida has already produced a web site and online maps of the citrus groves where beekeepers can register their apiaries. The citrus growers are supposed to go online and contact the beekeepers when spraying. Exact locations are not shown to reduce theft. Florida's program is supposed to expand to blueberries and cucurbits over the next year. Jeanette Klopchin our Pollinator Protection Person (or some such title) has a presentation she gave at Bee College on everything Florida is doing. She can probably send you the whole thing.

Yes working together probably means both beekeepers and growers changing large parts of how the typically do business.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

I haven't heard what if anything California is going to do. But we already have had the pesticide notification here for many years. It works like this: All beeyards are registered with the county ag dept. and a written request for spray notification is filled out with your phone number. The farmer or spray applicator call 48 hours before they are planning to spray. They will tell you where and what they are going to use.You then have the choice to do nothing, or move the hives. Mostly I do nothing as the sprays are being applied to crops bees aren't working or the spray is not a particularly bad one. Occasionally I will move a yard temporarily if I think there is a lot of potential for damage. Sometimes the spray applicator will postpone spraying a day or two in rare circumstances. I talk to these guys quite a bit during the spraying season and can tell you they DO NOT want to hurt the bees. Communication is the key here.


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## SRatcliff (Mar 19, 2011)

Probably "Here's where we're planting and spraying. Now get out of our way."


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

If you are a guest on the farmers land, do you have a right to tell him how to manage his pests?


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

Mark the current AHPA magazine on page 2 of the Presidential news column of Darren Cox has the following:

We are also working with the presidential task force advising them on newly developing state pollinator protection plans that can put even more money in your pocket. We are concerned with developing state pollinator plans that protect honeybees. If any states have concerns, or would like guidance, contact our executive officers or our secretary.

So I would guess if you or someone from the AIAC contacted these people they would have information available. I sent an email to ask who the two elected representatives for New York are and will give you the names when I get them.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Thanks, Mike.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Governor Cuomo announces the POllinator Protection Task Force.

http://www.governor.ny.gov/news/gov...-pollinator-protection-plan-protect-new-yorks


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

So will anything good come from this? I see bats,butterflies, birds and native bees are included as pollinators. This just looks like more government waste to me. And in the end,when all the hoopla blows over,we beekeepers will be left to solve our own problems ,as we always do. And as it should be.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

loggermike said:


> So will anything good come from this? This just looks like more government waste to me. And in the end,when all the hoopla blows over,we beekeepers will be left to solve our own problems ,as we always do. And as it should be.


Wow.... Excellent post Mike.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

all true but since they are making it so it's the beeks problem to avoid pesticide sprays, and only a few states now require registering of yards, wouldn't you foresee all the other states now requiring registering of yards so that beeks can be notified when they will have to move their yards or have pesticide kills?? so yes we will get to solve our own problems, but how many yards can you move in a night, at how many locations?? better to get some input into the decision making?


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

No its not practical to be moving yards frequently. But at least you will have a chance to do something or not, if you know what pesticide is being used , where and when.This has been hashed out in California years ago, and the system seems to work for the most part.It does require beekeepers register their yards , which some will oppose . But if one is getting hit year after year with pesticides, I think the only real solution is to quit that area.The farmers are not going to stop spraying. So the input into the decision making would be what? Require a system like California has? Or something else?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

loggermike said:


> So will anything good come from this? I see bats,butterflies, birds and native bees are included as pollinators. This just looks like more government waste to me. And in the end,when all the hoopla blows over,we beekeepers will be left to solve our own problems ,as we always do. And as it should be.


:thumbsup:


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

The answer to the "move your bees" problem is, "But what about the native pollinators? Who moves them?" I believe we need to project our industry as the protectors of native pollinators by "canary in the coal mine" methods. We will not move our bees, because we are the only ones that can monitor spray events.

On a side bar, I have been in contact with my State Enviromental Enforcement Specialist. Her job is to license all applicators of restriced pesticides. We got ito a disagreement, and it turned out she had not read the labels on Lorsban and Warrier when applied to alfalfa. It clearly stated that it can not be applied if pollinators are in the alfalfa OR WEEDS.

Lets not create more layers of govermnment, just enforce the rules we have now.


Crazy Roland


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

Roland said:


> On a side bar, I have been in contact with my State Enviromental Enforcement Specialist. Her job is to license all applicators of restriced pesticides. We got ito a disagreement, and it turned out she had not read the labels on Lorsban and Warrier when applied to alfalfa. It clearly stated that it can not be applied if pollinators are in the alfalfa OR WEEDS.
> 
> Crazy Roland


right it clearly states now that it can't be applied with pollinators present, it's my understanding after the proposed changes it will say something like, let er rip after roland is notified to move his hives.:digging:


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Wildbranch - That is exactly what I am trying to avoid. We do not migrate, and therefore have no economical way to move hives. Right now, public sentiment is on our side. We may be able to curtail some unrestricted spraying, but when Joe consumer complains about the cost of food, we may be screwed.

Crazy Roland


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

I'm in the same boat Roland so you didn't have to tell me twice sorry couldn't resist haven't had breakfast yet.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Do you think that the Beekeepers of NY should make a big deal of this or just let the folks in Albany do their thing so they can say they tried to help "the pollinators"?


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

sqkcrk said:


> Do you think that the Beekeepers of NY should make a big deal of this or just let the folks in Albany do their thing so they can say they tried to help "the pollinators"?


in a democracy the proper way to do this would be to poll the beekeepers, and in an internet driven world very easy to do. In Ny they will go behind closed doors and come out and tell you what they have decided, how much it's going to cost you, and how good it is for you. Yes the beekeepers of NY should make a big deal of it, if they want something that is acceptable, going on past experiences in NY, not a peep out of anyone until whatever exits the political arena is law, then you all will start screaming. How did the last set of rules on handguns work out for everyone, I see all kinds of signage asking for repeal, and no one ever knew they were working on the law. just saying speak now or expect to be verbally abused later when everyone starts whining. 

so how did you find out about the "Governor Cuomo announces the POllinator Protection Task Force", being the lead beekeeper of the ESHPA I assume the people working for the state let you know what was going on you have lived here long enough to have a better idea than I how things will/are going. What do you feel the beeks should do?
are you included on the team deciding, I actually saw no specifics only generalities on WHO will decide what to do. I'm going outside and beat on a dead horse to get rid of all the pent up energy from the last week of lousy weather.:applause:


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

I see they are planning to print up 50 million for this plan. And I see the Audubon society and native bee guys are lining up to get there fair share. Hey birds pollinate too don't they?
I think you are right to keep an eye on this so nothing gets slipped in that will come back to bite us later.

I also wonder about the issue you raised about giving the spray guys an out if you dont take action to protect your bees, even though its an illegal application on blooming plants. Guess its one for the lawyers.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

loggermike said:


> I also wonder about the issue you raised about giving the spray guys an out if you dont take action to protect your bees, even though its an illegal application on blooming plants. Guess its one for the lawyers.


I think the point that everyone is missing, is that they are also shooting to change the pesticide labels(if I remember what I read correctly), if all changes go in the way intended, as long as they notify beeks 24 or 48 hrs before, they now would be able to spray during the bloom.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

If thats true, then we need to find out about it and try to stop them. Now , off to feed the nucs.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Mike - where did you get that information?

Crazy Roland


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

wildbranch2007 said:


> so how did you find out about the "Governor Cuomo announces the POllinator Protection Task Force", being the lead beekeeper of the ESHPA I assume the people working for the state let you know what was going on you have lived here long enough to have a better idea than I how things will/are going. What do you feel the beeks should do?
> are you included on the team deciding, I actually saw no specifics only generalities on WHO will decide what to do. I'm going outside and beat on a dead horse to get rid of all the pent up energy from the last week of lousy weather.:applause:


I found out about the pre task force meeting from someone on the AIAC who suggested that I listen in via teleconference. I heard about this most recent/only announcement from you. Which illustrates your point doesn't it?

I don't know who is on the Task Force. Like you, I read about those quoted but saw no where that any of them are on the Task Force.

What should NY beekeepers do? Keep their ears and eyes open. You and I are informing them via beesource. I am informing them via Facebook. Ag&Mkts should be informing them via all sorts of media. Not that I have much faith in that.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

Roland said:


> Mike - where did you get that information?
> 
> Crazy Roland


if I remember correctly the American Honey producers sends out a newsletter and that's what they were talking about, I will see if I can find it b/4 the sun comes up :s


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

anything copied here comes from the AHPA web site.

Apiary registrations whether voluntary or mandatory are not the panacea to pesticide related bee kills. Voluntary registration, and use of these apiary websites, or sensitive crop registry websites are not enforceable. The very nature they are voluntary gives a false sense of responsibility and communication. The “48 hour notice to move bees” is part of the digital registry programs. If a beekeeper is told to move their bees, and they do not, the responsibility for any bee losses due to the pesticide application falls to the beekeeper. The “48 hour notice to move bees” misses the point of the registry programs. These should be used to open communication, not speak in ultimatums. The registry programs could work better, if they opened a conversation between beekeeper, applicator, and farmer about the pesticides being selected. Is there a product to address the pest with a short residual toxicity? Can the short residual toxicity product be applied at night? How much of the crop has been pollinated, remains to be pollinated, and how will removing bees affect the crop yield? What is the pest threshold level as determined by Integrated Pest Management practices? If pollination is nearly completed, can the application be delayed a few days, so pollination can increase the crop yield? The registry programs should “start” a conversation between the agricultural stakeholders for the best management practice that will lead to increased crop yields, and healthy bees available to pollinate the next farmer’s crop. Instead, the “48 hour notice to move bees” is a label directive that has often become an ultimatum that stops communication. <--- the label is rewritten to put the burden on the beek instead of the sprayer also requires registration of yards

this one is from AHPA but they copied if from Catch the Buzz

There is also concern that thenew label languageis unenforceable. EPA is aware that label directions such as these are not adhered to in the real-world. Many beekeepers can attest to this and have repeatedly communicated this to EPA enforcement and registration officials. Addressing lack of co mpliance has been an area the agency has not sufficiently addressed throughout the years. For instance, after specifying that, "the product may not be applied while bees are foraging. Do not apply this product until flowering is complete and all petals have fallen,” EPA adopts the loophole:

"If an application must be made when managed bees are at the treatment site, the beekeeper providing the pollination services must be notified no less than 48-hours prior to the time of the planned application so that the bees can be removed, covered or otherwise protected prior to spraying.”

This keeps the onus on the beekeepers to make sure their bees are safe. (LEAVING NO PROVISION TO MOVE THE INNOCENTS TO SAFETY)


so put them together and the beek has the responsibility, they can spray while crops are flowering, and in states that don't have registration(NY) they could tell the guy doing pollination but not tell anyone else, or the guy down the street sprays his crops and doesn't know you are pollinating and all is legal, you would have no recourse.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

figured I would also copy this here not related to this thread but I haven't heard a mention of it any where else.

Tylosin, Tylan now requires veterinarian prescription:

http://www.fda.gov/animalveterinary/guidancecomplianceenforcement/guidanceforindustry/ucm216939.htm

n order to help phase in veterinary oversight of those drugs that move from OTC to VFD status once changes are made in line with the guidance, FDA is also releasing a proposed rule for public comment that would update the agency’s existing regulations relating to VFD drugs. The use of VFD drugs in feed requires specific authorization by a licensed veterinarian based on procedures outlined in the agency’s VFD regulations. The VFD proposed rule is intended to update the existing VFD process to clarify and increase the flexibility of the administrative requirements for the distribution and use of VFD drugs. Such updates to the VFD process will assist in the transition of OTC products to their new VFD status.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Thanks for taking the time to find that. I will mull it over today. Got a load of bees in the driveway and the sun is coming up..


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Thanks Mike.

Am I wrong, or is the above mostly aimed at bees in paid pollination crops? Since we do no paid pollination, my concern has been with our bees in weeds in the alfalfa, which does not seem to be covered by the above.

Crazy Roland


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

don't know, since it comes from the Honey Producers organization I would expect the language to be aimed at comm. pollinators, it's the language that they are putting on the label that would be troubling. also I'm not 100% sure that the label change is for all pesticides or just Neonic's after rereading it. of course if it's just Neonics, that's the one every one is complaining about. If I see any more about it I will post, but weather is getting better and I would much rather go get stung:thumbsup:


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## high rate of speed (Jan 4, 2008)

Keith Jarrett said:


> Wow.... Excellent post Mike. [/QUOTE. The legend in his own mind is what I was told..


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

"Let both praise and criticism roll off you like water off a duck's back." -Roy Masters


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## high rate of speed (Jan 4, 2008)

10-4


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

It seems that that this is 'fruiting' into MP3 plans (Managed Pollinator Protection Plans)...perhaps at the exclusion of protecting native pollinators? Regardless, they could do almost anything to 'protect native pollinators'....without a baseline or good way to gather data, they don't have to worry about results.

It seems here:
http://pollinatorstewardship.org/?p=3193
...specifically the chart linked from that page, here:
http://pollinatorstewardship.org/wp...llinator-Plan-comparisons-by-PSC-3-31-15.xlsx

...that in my state (you can check yours there too),:


> Have held first stakeholder meeting, Massachusetts Farm Bureau involved, using SFIREG Guidance, additional meetings planned


SFIREG=State-FIFRA Issues Research and Evaluation Group
...which is a group under:
AAPCO=The Association of American Pesticide Control Officials

I'm personally not left feeling warm and fuzzy reading that my state farm bureau is working under the guidance of the pesticide applicator bureaucrats ...to develop policy on how best to protect managed pollinators (honeybees).


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

deknow said:


> I'm personally not left feeling warm and fuzzy reading that my state farm bureau is working under the guidance of the pesticide applicator bureaucrats ...to develop policy on how best to protect managed pollinators (honeybees).


seems to be the same reaction in NY, except most people don't even know it's going on:kn:


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

That appears to be part of the plan.


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## jklopchin (Jun 16, 2015)

HELLO - 

I was mentioned earlier in this thread  just actually joined beesource. I am working on the MP3 for Florida (Dept of Ag - new hire as of December). I read through most of this thread and can help address some questions/comments. Firstly i am a 7 year beekeeper and have a long background in honey bee and pollinator research and extension. Right now (June 2015) EPA has in the federal register - "proposal to mitigate exposure to bees from acutely toxic pesticide products". Here is the direct link to the document: http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=EPA-HQ-OPP-2014-0818-0002 

The proposal has essentially 2 parts: first is to restrict the use of products containing any of 76 active ingredients to crops that are in bloom while bees are present under contract pollination services. There are additional specifics for formulations, etc. actual label language is included in the doc at the very end as well as a list of those actives. Second, for ALL other scenarios - i.e. foraging bees, non-contract services, honey production, any inclusion of native bee protection - ALL will be covered on a state-by-state basis, under the MP3. 

The comment period is open until July 29th. I am highly recommending that beekeepers, anonymous or affiliated, submit comments. There are many, many organizations that are preparing comments and this is the only time period in which changes to this policy will be made. 

Additionally, EPA is holding a public webinar on the proposed regulations to be held on Tuesday, June 23 from 3-4:30 pm Eastern Time. You can access the webinar here: https://epa.connectsolutions.com/pollinatorproposal/. I highly recommend you participate. 

For Florida, our MP3 is being driven by the needs of the beekeepers, of the growers, and advised by faculty at the University of Florida Institute of Ag. Sciences. All referenced information concerning the protections of native bees known to be present on these crops will be considered. We are taking a crop-specific approach and will be considering additional BMP's for risk reduction in ornamental landscapes. Alternative foraging grounds have been identified and we are working on facilitating a land exchange for folks who have property they would like to host honey bees on. 

We have a comprehensive outreach plan, in development and ongoing. We teach beekeepers about pesticide use in hives, about ag. production and pest pressures. We teach pesticide applicators about honey bee biology, foraging behavior, how to read labels and risk reduction techniques. We teach growers about IPM tacticss, pollination requirements, buffer zones, new technology, how to choose less toxic products, etc. all in addition to honey bee health, decline, etc. 

The MP3's give us the opportunity to write a set of comprehensive guidelines that offer more protection than a label restriction could (mostly due to lack of data they require), provided that folks use them. By including all these parties in the conversation, and let them help shape what goes into it, based on their real world experiences and issues, we hope that the plans are robust, fair, and usable for all involved. This is great for Florida; I am working on this full time. There are however, states with no apiary program, no one assigned or available to craft or work on an MP3 at all. This is an area of concern because as we know migratory beekeepers will be relying on these plans when they are in a non-contract pollination situation (aka honey production, build up, splitting, etc). 

There is a lot to be said about the EPA proposal, the MP3's, and how this will affect beekeepers on the ground. Again, I highly encourage you to read it, watch the webinar, and submit comments. 

I am available to help answer any more questions, or hear your concerns, as I will be submitting comments on behalf a few different groups. 

My work email is [email protected] if you prefer to send me a private message.


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