# Driving a swarm out of ceiling joist ideas?



## beepowers (Mar 15, 2007)

I had a call today about a swarm that arrived in a ceiling two days ago. The owner has a very fancy ceiling with custom wallpaper and decorative mouldings. the house is brick. The owner would like me to try to drive the bees out of the joists rather than tear the ceiling open or do a trap out. My first thought is to place a nuc against the opening of the brick wall and then make a small hole in the ceiling and spray bee go into the void. Is this worth a try, or do any of you have other techniques to get the bees out of the house, even if they abscond? We can do the bee go as long as it takes, if necessary.


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## warrior (Nov 21, 2005)

You're two days to late. Had you been there on day one a liberal dose of bee quick *behind* the bees might have driven them out.
Your only options at this point are cut out or trap out. From what you describe it sounds like an ideal candidate for a trap out. 
If the exterior is solid brick, not brick to siding junction, then my experience is the hole is a missed spot of mortar and the only hole. Easy to do a trap out. The brick to siding gap though is almost never a candidate due to gaps up and down the entire join.


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## warrior (Nov 21, 2005)

You could try of course and just might succeed but my experience says it would only make things worse at this point.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

I've had that work with established colonies. When I did it, we left a weak observation hive bear the entrance...bees ended up clustered outside the ob hive. I'd have brood and a caged queen in the nuc box.


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## Geno (Apr 23, 2015)

Can you use a bee vacuum? Açcess through the Attic??


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

access them from the attic.


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

beepowers said:


> I had a call today about a swarm that arrived in a ceiling two days ago. The owner has a very fancy ceiling with custom wallpaper and decorative mouldings. the house is brick. The owner would like me to try to drive the bees out of the joists rather than tear the ceiling open or do a trap out. My first thought is to place a nuc against the opening of the brick wall and then make a small hole in the ceiling and spray bee go into the void. Is this worth a try, or do any of you have other techniques to get the bees out of the house, even if they abscond? We can do the bee go as long as it takes, if necessary.


I would use a Hogan trap, or a one way cone exit and successive heavy applications of Bee Quick behind the bees. Bee Go has a rather foul smell as I recall. This may not work. I have successfully used heavy smoke in different circumstances where fire is not an issue. I would strongly consider not being involved unless a trapout was workable, the owner agreed, and the location is convenient enough for repeated trips over several weeks.


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

trapout can leave honey and if it doesn't get robbed out quick it can ferment and blow out of the frames then all that fancy wall paper will end up looking like this








I would STRONGLY recommend a cutout.


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

Harley Craig said:


> trapout can leave honey and if it doesn't get robbed out quick it can ferment and blow out of the frames then all that fancy wall paper will end up looking like this


If the bees have only been in there three days at this time of year, the honey they will have stored should be consumed if the foragers or other bees chased out by the Bee Quick are unable to get back in the hive. Once the trapout is completed, you should allow bees to rob out any unused nectar. Wax is a different issue particularly in hives that have been there more than three days. Bear in mind that the owner's estimate of how long the bees have been there may not be accurate.


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

Riverderwent said:


> Bear in mind that the owner's estimate of how long the bees have been there may not be accurate.



You can almost count on this. If you happen to follow JP the beeman on facebook or anywhere else you will see a TON of cutout photos from bees who have only been there a " few days" and they got 5 yrs worth of comb and an entire seasons worth of honey stored.


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## MangoBee (Jul 13, 2014)

You can always try it. I smoked/Bee Quicked a swarm out of a wall a couple of weeks back; they were in the exterior wall of a house for 1 1/2 days. I smoked them hard and put in Bee=Quick where I could. I thought I was unsuccessful (waited around for 10-15 minutes after doing this), left for 1/2 hour to drop something off, came back and the entire hive (and queen) were outside on the wall.


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

Check the entrance. If it is all stained up and discolored, they have been there a while.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Harley Craig said:


> access them from the attic.


The ceiling might be on the first floor with a second above it.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

beepowers said:


> I had a call today about a swarm that arrived in a ceiling two days ago. The owner has a very fancy ceiling with custom wallpaper and decorative mouldings. the house is brick.


Wallpaper on the ceiling?


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

One example .... 








photo credit


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Barry said:


> Wallpaper on the ceiling?


I have taken a lot down. Some people like it.


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

Acebird said:


> The ceiling might be on the first floor with a second above it.


awesome, even better work environment no need to crawl around and make sure you are stepping only on the joist and not on the ceiling so you don't fall through.. Either lift the carpet or pop up the hardwood and cut a hole in the sub floor.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

My question was to verify that in fact there is wallpaper on the ceiling before I offer further advise. I'm aware it's done. The way the OP worded it was not clear enough to me.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Harley Craig said:


> Either lift the carpet or pop up the hardwood and cut a hole in the sub floor.


Ouch, flooring is more expensive than drywall and wall paper and in the case of hardwood much harder to match. Obviously the potential customer wants things his/her way. It may not be possible.


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## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

Sometimes customers have unreasonable expectations and are impossible to work with, this is true in all professions and certainly true in the business of take outs. 

After some experience, you will learn to RUN from that kind of customer! I consider it very unlikely the customer's solution would work and be a long term solution. Very unlikely. This is a time when you need to be the expert, describe your solution and he can take it or leave it. It's going to be expensive to take the bees out and expensive to hire experts to repair the ceiling to his standard...Two different contracts.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

I haven't checked with my insurance company but is bee removal usually covered or not?


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

Sometimes you have to just say no. If the house is an "historic landmark" in the owner's eyes then maybe it's best to walk away.
Mutter something about an exterminator. Have done it a couple times already to people with unrealistic expectations.


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

Sometimes you do get lucky, a simple trap out might work. Easiest first until proven wrong. So maybe you only get bees and the owner gets the queen, brood and mess.

If the bees have been there for only 2 days how firm is the location of the comb? Ceiling or wall? Honestly the most direct route might well be the brick. If the bees are truly in the ceiling I would guess the strapping was not enclosed. Removing a brick at the strapping height would let you slide a pipe past the comb and get juice behind the bees using a vac as a blower.

Mortar matches better than flooring or wall paper.

Owner makes the call as to their path of progress. You advise, they decide. If nothing else you will see their colors about blame


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Saltybee said:


> Mortar matches better than flooring or wall paper.


I am pretty sure the floor/ceiling joist are not mortar. They may have gotten in through the brick but there has to be another way into the structure. Once in they are in. The entrance is of no consequence.


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

Acebird said:


> I am pretty sure the floor/ceiling joist are not mortar. They may have gotten in through the brick but there has to be another way into the structure. Once in they are in. The entrance is of no consequence.


Thanks for structural lesson.


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## fieldsofnaturalhoney (Feb 29, 2012)

Beepowers, have you confirmed that the homeowner is correct on the hive's location?


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## jadebees (May 9, 2013)

Lburou said:


> Sometimes customers have unreasonable expectations and are impossible to work with, this is true in all professions and certainly true in the business of take outs.
> 
> After some experience, you will learn to RUN from that kind of customer! I consider it very unlikely the customer's solution would work and be a long term solution. Very unlikely. This is a time when you need to be the expert, describe your solution and he can take it or leave it. It's going to be expensive to take the bees out and expensive to hire experts to repair the ceiling to his standard...Two different contracts.


Sometimes you need to beg off of some cut outs. Don't be afraid to turn it down. If you will do 100's or thousands of dollars damage, no matter what you agree to, they Can sue you. Unless you are a licenced contractor, and make a damage waiver, spelling out the wreckage, you can meet the wrong customer. The ones that never have been near a hive, but already know what you need to do it are problems.


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