# How many hives to make a profit/ or too pay for hobby



## Khines (Dec 25, 2016)

How many hive to make profit or to at least pay for the beekeeping hobby just woundering


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## dtrooster (Apr 4, 2016)

> to at least pay for the beekeeping hobby


 doesn't take many if you don't buy bees.


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## Wetsu151 (Apr 20, 2016)

One, a friend of mine bought a nuc for 150.00 his first year of beekeeping and in 10 months it made about 170lbs of honey that he was selling for 10.00 bucks a pound. Darn good profit huh ?
Too bad he lost the hive to mites soon after, lol


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## flyin-lowe (May 15, 2014)

There are so many variable year to year and hive to hive. Last year I had three hives I pulled honey supers from and got about 7 gallons. Some times you can get that much from one hive in a year. I have had good luck at catching swarms the last two years and with any luck I won't have to buy bees again. As long as I don't have a major die off one year and can catch enough swarms to make up my losses. I build my own equipment so that saves me a few bucks here and there as well.


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## Billboard (Dec 28, 2014)

Selling a few nucs pays for the hobby easy. Selling honey takes alot longer especially if you figure your time. Sell nucs its much easier and the bees do all the work. 3 good hives can make nucs and pay for the years expense


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## JeronimoJC (Jul 21, 2016)

One hive. Make your own hives and frames. Don't buy lumber, find it free. Catch swarms.


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## DaisyNJ (Aug 3, 2015)

Khines said:


> How many hive to make profit or to at least pay for the beekeeping hobby just woundering


If you buy all equipment, each hive typically costs about $200 + $200 bees = $400. Three hives = $1200. Take care of it, manage it, sell 6 Nucs next year at $200 each and you will recoup the cost. Catch swarms and reduce / eliminate cost of bees and make more nucs for overwintering. Find source of cheap(er) lumber, reduct cost of equipment. 

If you go down the route of calculating "Profit", be sure to include your time. Thats whole another ball game.


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## exmar (Apr 30, 2015)

IMHO, "you can't get there from here," if you're talking about a paying hobby. Obviously, you have to invest in equipment, bees, also invest a lot of time learning. Now, you have to invest in an extractor, uncapper, bottles/jars, etc. Finally, you have honey! Where will you sell it? Do you have friends knocking on your door to buy it? If not, set up a stand somewhere and sit there? Make up a little display for a local merchant to set up in return for 10-30% of the market price? For me, beekeeping is a fun and fascinating hobby, honey production, on the other hand, is a lot of work, bigger investment and no assurance you'll have a good year. I respect the folks who are honey producers very much, hard work usually on the bees schedule and not theirs. Gotta believe there's an easier way to make a buck. Also, have had a couple of hobbies during my life that folks encouraged to turn into a side job. I did and made some decent money, but it wasn't fun anymore, it was a job! e.g. Have always liked to repair fishing reels and make custom rods, turned that into a home business and did quite well. When everyone else was out fishing and drinking beer, I was at home working.....:-(


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## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

I have been at this for a while I made a fair living as a commercial honey producer many years ago. Now I an a hobbyist and have been for decades. A lot of money has passed through my hands in the bees business. selling nucs, queen by the load, equipment, Honey retail and in bulk. Buying equipment, containers, tools, lights, heat, gasoline for the equipment, and the like. But profit? For years I have taken a loss to the tax man. But it keeps me sane, I think!


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

i have a friend running 8000 hives. i think he would like to know the answer to this too. he is way too busy to spend a lot of time worrying about this.


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## exmar (Apr 30, 2015)

Tenbears, isn't the idea to work for the tax man, anyone think we're working for ourselves?


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## Dave1958 (Mar 25, 2013)

There is an income with beekeeping, but having been in it for about 5 years I don't think profit is a word I can use. I have fun with it, but I need to walk away for other issues. Family being one. I have a day job, and don't want to depend on this for beans on my plate and roof on my head


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## JeronimoJC (Jul 21, 2016)

For hobby, after you made your own equipment, and caught your own swarms, use foundationless frames. Harvest honey in the comb. No extracting machine, no foundation to buy. Keep things simple and small and you'll spend time, but no money.


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## Pondulinus (Jun 24, 2015)

Like brewing beer, beekeeping as a hobby is not expensive (in money). In our case, if we sell our six hives we will net what we gave for our two starting hives and all the equipment we have bought. If we get 30kg of honey pr. hive this year, we will earn about the same ammount of money by selling the honey as we used to buy all the equipment (incl. new electric extractor) and bees. Although the pay pr. hour is miniscule, you can earn a profit pretty fast.


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## dtrooster (Apr 4, 2016)

Yeah with just a little effort you can have all the honey you and the peeps can eat plus come out ahead money wise. Labor cost doesn't figure into the deal unless it's taking time away from something you enjoy more or something that actually pays for sure money . My work pays for everything, my hobbies make me smile or they don't stay around long. A hobby with expectations more than that is by definition, a job.


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## aran (May 20, 2015)

Im hoping when i retire 20 years from now to be able to do at least some beekeeping for fun and a few bucks. Dont think im brave enough to rely on it though as the sole source of funds to put food on the table.


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## Knobs (Sep 20, 2014)

Khines said:


> How many hive to make profit or to at least pay for the beekeeping hobby just woundering


Each year I ask myself this question and the answer always seems to be "more than I currently own". I'm guessing eventually you are either broke or a commercial beekeeper actually making money. Either way I have been having a lot of fun.


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## CrazyTalk (Jan 27, 2015)

This is where I'm at so far:

Last year:
Package $90
15 Medium Boxes: $150
100 Medium Frames: $90
30 Mediumf fm w/ Plastic found: $75
2 bottom boards, inner covers, telescoping covers: $100

Ventilated jacket: $75
Smoker: $20
Gloves: $20

Total: $620

This year:
Vivo 8/4 Extractor: $400
Honey strainer: $20


Jars: $40

Total: $1080

I've pulled and bottled about 100lbs of honey from the hive that the package started this year, so I'm not far off from breaking even. I've also now got 5 nucs running from splits/queen cells/etc that will hopefully produce next year.

I'm expecting to spend another $250-500 on frames/boxes next year, but if things go well, I should blow by that in honey.


(Add another $100 in wood - I built some frames, and bottom boards, and telescoping covers)


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

JeronimoJC said:


> One hive. Make your own hives and frames. Don't buy lumber, find it free. Catch swarms.


Pretty much how I got into it. I've bought some gear since then, but nothing extravagant. My main problem isn't cost, but population control. If you want for it to pay for itself, I'd recommend selling bees once you get to the point you don't have time or space for more. It doesn't have to cost much at all or can cost you a fortune. All depends on how you want to proceed.


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

I suppose if you consider that your time has any value at all then you'd have to figure that into your profit analysis.
Start figuring transportation and storage costs while you're at it. 
For a joke pay yourself $15/hour and start counting minutes. 

I get free bees and still don't feel like I'm making any money. Maybe $0.65/hour or something in that range. 
Tax-man is going to have a rough time accepting that after he reads some of the other testimonies here. 
It's a freackin' gold-mine. 
Maybe if I get a gubment grant and spend it all on bee toys.


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

top secret fact: this is a form of agriculture. no profit, or microscopic profit is a likely out come. losses are common. income per hour is a joke. a lot of hours for next to nothing is a fact of life.


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## CrazyTalk (Jan 27, 2015)

aunt betty said:


> I suppose if you consider that your time has any value at all then you'd have to figure that into your profit analysis.
> Start figuring transportation and storage costs while you're at it.
> For a joke pay yourself $15/hour and start counting minutes.
> 
> ...


If you're trying to run a business, you absolutely should be calculating in the cost of time. 

If you're trying to pay for a hobby, you shouldn't - unless you also want to start factoring in the dollar value of leisure that is being offset.


And I'm with Nordak here - population control seems to be a bigger issue than cost.


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## dtrooster (Apr 4, 2016)

On what planet does your time have value to anyone but yourself? How much an hour you make sitting around watching Oprah and Dr Phil?


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## bentonkb (May 24, 2016)

I've wondered about making beekeeping pay for itself. If it is just a hobby, then it is fair to count your time as free, imo. If you only need to pay for woodenware and jars, then you can break even on the extra honey from three hives most years.

If you are thinking about making it a job then it is better to ask yourself how little money you are willing to take for hot, hard labor. Picking up roadkill and mowing grass for a highway crew might start looking like a sweet gig.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

No one I know running a agricultural business as the owner considers their time farming in terms of a hourly wage. Not one. Not crop, animal or bee farmers. 
In fact I don't think I know anyone running their own business, any business, that does so either. Some may bill the client by the hour but there is still much work to be done running the business after hours, hours that can't be billed to any client. Time that only you and your family know you even put in!

Hourly wages are for employees. 8-5, 5 day weeks? that's what you get when you work for someone other than yourself.


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## mbear (May 18, 2017)

JeronimoJC said:


> One hive. Make your own hives and frames. Don't buy lumber, find it free. Catch swarms.


were is this free lumber you speak of?


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## stan.vick (Dec 19, 2010)

I started nine years ago with three packages, two were drone layers, the third was a good queen that lasted three years. I never bought any more bees, but learned to trap mine from a very large and isolated area. I now have very hardy resistant stock, I think the right bee is the key, otherwise you keep treating bees, and buying bees, so it's hard to make a profit.
I buy equipment and bee toys only when the bees can afford it, I have not spent my own money since I built my first ten boxes and bought the three packages. My bees now pay my property taxes as well. At first I sold some honey and a nuc every now and then, so I could buy some lumber to build more boxes. Now if I want thirty or forty more boxes, or a load of sugar I just take it out of the bee money and buy it, it's nice to order my equipment instead of making it myself. Of course if I needed the money to buy groceries with or pay a mortgage I am sure I'd find another way to do it, making a living with bees has to be a hard way to make a living.


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## JeronimoJC (Jul 21, 2016)

mbear said:


> were is this free lumber you speak of?


Construction sites, business dealing with lumber, free furniture from Craigslist, dumpsters, side of the freeway, etc. all you have to do is be on the lookout. It is fun to find such things for free. For hive making you need short lengths that others consider cuttings to be disposed of.


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## Reef Resiner (Jun 9, 2015)

Their is never a shortage of nuc or honey buyers. Some people would love to pay for your knowlege as well.


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## Farmercal (May 19, 2015)

Everybody keeps talking about the hourly wage. I get paid very well at my day job; however, it takes my an hour driving each way to make that salary. I make zero driving to work and zero driving home, but I do get the agrivation of dealing with idiot drivers daily. I would gladly trade that agrivation for just beekeeping and gardening right here at the house if it were possible. I spend hours in the garden weeding and mulching when I could just go to the store and buy the food. I like gardening and I like beekeeping. I like making woodenware. Do I think I can make a living on beekeeping alone? Probably not. Can I supplement my retirement with beekeeping? Absolutely! I will also enjoy going to work for change. I also believe a profit can be made will having fun with bees.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

mathesonequip said:


> top secret fact: this is a form of agriculture. no profit, or microscopic profit is a likely out come. losses are common. income per hour is a joke. a lot of hours for next to nothing is a fact of life.


 Truer words never spoken.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

It's not how many hives it takes to make a profit, it's how much profit can you make per hive. If you know what you are doing and have the ability to get the most you can get out of your hives you can make as much as $300.00 or more per hive in income. I believe it was Randy VerHoek who gave a talk at a Fall Mtng of the Empire State Honey Producers Association three years ago on that very subject.

Honey production, of course.
Wax
Queens
Nucs
Pollination

If you manage your hives well, you should be able to make more profit than the expenses from those hives. when your income is greater than your expenses, consistently so, then you have gone from an unprofitable hobby to a profitable hobby. When you start filing annually a Profit and Loss from Farming, aka Schedule F, then you have graduated from Hobby to Business.

If you ever calculate your hourly wage related to the hours you work and the "profit" you may be doing yourself a disfavor. It may turn out to be a negative amount. which may take all of the enjoyment out of the doing. My recommendation: Don't.


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

My parents are extremely interested in the profit part of the bees I keep in their yard with the house that they abandoned. 
Of course I'm mowing and maintaining an abandoned house with 2 acre yard for the right to keep bees there.
They hate bees but love money which rhymes with honey so it has to be a money-maker. How much? 
How are the bees doing means how much didja git. 

$300/hive profit eh. This means I should have made around $15,000 last season. 
Where do you guys come up with these numbers? 
I'm not seeing it.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

aunt betty said:


> $300/hive profit eh.


NO.

What Mark actually said was "INCOME". _Big difference_!! 


sqkcrk said:


> If you know what you are doing and have the ability to get the most you can get out of your hives you can make as much as $300.00 or more per hive[HIGHLIGHT] in income.[/HIGHLIGHT]


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

It's not how many it takes to make a profit, it's how much profit can you make from the number you have.

Turn your head around. Turn your thought around. Look at this from a different point of view.

aunt betty, if you have a small number of hives and manage them well, you should be able to make $300.00 INCOME just from the honey, in some places. First you need to get, say, 100 pounds of extracted honey from that hive. Then you have to market it at at least $3.00 per pound. Which is low at most Farm Markets I have been to. So you aught to be able to recoup the cost of jars and caps and labels selling 100 pounds of honey for, say, $5.00 to $8.00 per one pound per jar.

Sounds easy. Takes effort.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

Those who want to make a profit from their bees need to run it like a business.
That means learn the way of the bees first, learn about your area, then make all decisions based on income and expenses.
Forget about the newest gimmicks. Every purchase has to be made according to need and how it will increase ROI.
SQKCRK said it nicely: Sounds easy, Takes effort. I'll add 2 more, commitment and time.


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## SS Auck (May 8, 2015)

clyderoad said:


> No one I know running a agricultural business as the owner considers their time farming in terms of a hourly wage. Not one. Not crop, animal or bee farmers.
> In fact I don't think I know anyone running their own business, any business, that does so either. Some may bill the client by the hour but there is still much work to be done running the business after hours, hours that can't be billed to any client. Time that only you and your family know you even put in!
> 
> Hourly wages are for employees. 8-5, 5 day weeks? that's what you get when you work for someone other than yourself.


I like how clyde says this. My Father in law is a very successful farmer. He has never thought about how much he makes per hour. But I bet he does pretty well. But I know it was lean times for the first decade of his career. also like you said later on clyde about running it like a business. My FIL also makes almost every decision about money like it is make or break deal. He is very thoughtful about spending money. It has to work out to some payoff in the next couple of years or he wont buy it. He would probably think it was a luxury. I have thought about making bees a business for me and my family but I think it is wise to make it a side hustle, to pay for my hobby. I spend a fair amount of time in the woods hunting, I dont always kill a deer, or turkey. When I do, if I were to figure how much per lb that meat cost I might lose my appetite. But we all keep bees because we enjoy it, I guess we are getting to see how it is for the lucky few that love their jobs.


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## Northwest PA Beekeeper (Mar 28, 2012)

Beekeeping IS an agriculture business. 

Much like farmers planting crops - you have no idea how much your crop will even produce- IF it produces. 

Having a wet, rainy year where bees aren't able to get out much won't make a lot of honey. On the other hand - a good year - where the bees quickly fill their hive with honey and backfill the brood nest results in half of your bees flying away.

As a hobby, which you do need to run like a business - minimize your expenses, maximize your income. But as has been said - you really can't count your time and expect a profit.

There is no magic number of hives where you will make a profit. Sure, honey is the big income most beekeepers think about - but when you factor in your time, your expenses for equipment, more time to market it and sell it - honey probably isn't your biggest money maker. Take a little bit of time to split some hives and sell off the extras - and that can be some easy money.

I think over several years - the average beekeeper can make a profit - after all expenses are deducted - but I don't think it's enough profit to quit your day job and become a full time beekeeper.


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## dtrooster (Apr 4, 2016)

> Hourly wages are for employees. 8-5, 5 day weeks? that's what you get when you work for someone other than yourself.


exactly


> the average beekeeper can make a profit - after all expenses are deducted


 during the 3rd year, at the latest, beekeeping should be at minimum cost neutral. If its not, down here at least, its being done wrong rather badly


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Northwest PA Beekeeper said:


> As a hobby, which you do need to run like a business - minimize your expenses, maximize your income. But as has been said - you really can't count your time and expect a profit.


There is no Line in the Schedule F that accounts as an expense for one's own personal Labor. Paid Labor, yes, but not your Labor. Unless you are set up in a way in which you are paid a Salary. Then, I imagine, you have to File as a Business and as yourself. Two different Filings.


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## m0dem (May 14, 2016)

mathesonequip said:


> top secret fact: this is a form of agriculture. no profit, or microscopic profit is a likely out come. losses are common. income per hour is a joke. a lot of hours for next to nothing is a fact of life.


If no one made any money in agriculture, there wouldn't be anyone doing it.


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## CoryM465 (Jan 26, 2016)

mathesonequip said:


> top secret fact: this is a form of agriculture. no profit, or microscopic profit is a likely out come. losses are common. income per hour is a joke. a lot of hours for next to nothing is a fact of life.


No profit to be made in agriculture? Bahaha There's a good living to be made if you know what you're doing, can stay out of debt, and have enough land.


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## gtwarren1966 (Jul 7, 2015)

mathesonequip said:


> top secret fact: this is a form of agriculture. no profit, or microscopic profit is a likely out come. losses are common. income per hour is a joke. a lot of hours for next to nothing is a fact of life.


Tell that to the weed farmers in Co and Cali.


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