# New Neighbor Problems



## chief (Apr 19, 2005)

Renters moved in next door about 5 weeks ago. The lady found out about my bees about 2 weeds ago. She is petrified of my bees and wants them gone. She says they are all over in her backyard (my roommate counted about eight that flew over in a couple minuets note I said over her back yard not in her back yard). She wont let her daughter out to play in fear that her daughter may be allergic to bee stings. She had her husband spray the fence with bee repellent in an attempt to keep them out. The bees (2 hives) are on the other side of my yard with respect to her house with a six foot wooden fence between the yards. I have looked and there is no reason that I can see for the bees to be in her yard . . . no flowers or water to speak of. I put out some water near the hives to make sure they are not going over there for water. I was out of town when she complained to my roommate so Im going over tonight to talk it over with her. I am a new beekeeper and Im looking for some help on this one. What do I tell her? How do I calm the nerves of this woman? Are there any hand outs made up to give to your neighbors to inform them about bees and bee behavior? Should I make a compromise and tell her if her or her child get stung Ill remove the hives or should I be hard nosed and tell her that I am within the law? Any ideas or experience with this could help me out. Thanks in advance.


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## COUNT ZERO (Apr 8, 2005)

Have a jar of honey handy (even if it's not yours).

Brian


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## Tia (Nov 19, 2003)

Pleeeeez don't tell them that if they get stung, you'll remove the hives. When I was growing up, my neighbor's neighbor (two doors down) had bees and I was a barefoot kid that got stung on a daily basis. Try to be nice. Explain that bees sting only when they feel they or their hive is in jeopardy. I must be old and grouchy, but when I was growing up, there was never any worries about allergies. A sting now and then keeps you humble, beekeeper or no beekeeper.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

Are your hives visible to anyone not on your property or in the immediate vicinity of the hives? If they are, I would suggest changing that situation promptly. Out of sight, out of mind. Even if you think the bees she is reported seeing are yours, you may be wrong. Sure you can spot them flying "over" her yard. She may not be as able to discern honeybees as you are. I'll guess that even you would not be able to identify a bee as "yours" once it has left your hive. She may be counting any modestly sized flying insect as a "bee". People with unreasonable fears frequently do. In my experience with people as concerns bees, especially as regards honeybees - even if they are not bee-phobic, they can not differentiate a bee from a large fly, wasp, hornet, bumblebee, or etc.

The jar of honey may be a helpful touch, unless she happens to be diabetic.

Diplomacy may be difficult if this person is suffering from "phobias", and is not in treatment.

I would only tell her you plan to remove your bees if her child gets stung. If you really want to remove your bees. I would expect her reply to be, "my child has already been stung, remove your bees now!", or "I don't want to risk my child getting stung, remove your bees, now! and thanks for the honey."

Curious thought: If she were so paranoid concerning bees, why did she not check out where she was moving to before she moved there? Usually people only ensure they are confronted with their fears when they plan to work at overcoming their fears.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

It's always a good idea too make sure they have a water source on our close to your property also so they aren't at where the neighbors hose drips, bird bath, swimming pool, etc. If the neighbors yard is in the flight path but some type of barrier a few feet in front of the hives(section of stockade fence) so the bees fly above people level crossing her property. The bees are likely working clover in the yard. I would invite her over and discuss her concerns, educate her and the kids and the jar of honey mentioned by the count might just clinch the deal. Good Luck


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## Ben Brewcat (Oct 27, 2004)

I had a couple neighbors a little nervous, not to her degree. After watching me sitting in a lawn chair, pint in hand, next to the opening for hours at a time, they got over some fears and were even curious. It'll be a test of your diplomatic skills; many folks won't be reasoned with when they've already made up their minds. Try explaining that a honeybee dies after she stings by having her guts torn out, so they have an incentive to leave you alone. In CO our ag extension had a flier explaining that 90% of stings are caused by yellowjackets alone, not including other wasps/hornets, none of which are honeybees. Explain how bees travel a couple miles for forage, so moving your hive will NOT prevent bees from overflying her yard, not even close. Use the word "HONEYbees" for your bees and "wasps and hornets" for the bad guys and explain the difference. 

If she pushes the allergy bit, encourage her to get her daughter tested. If she is truly allergic, she needs to carry an epipen no matter whether you have bees or not. Antartica in winter is the only safe place for a truly allergic person to not carry adrenaline; if she ever goes outside she needs it in case a Yellowjacket/hornet stings her, which can happen to anybody anywhere. 

Good luck; it's a tough one. Try to avoid getting testy or defensive, she's just ignorant not evil (so far as we know







). No one likes hearing that their beliefs may be inaccurate so be gentle like our friend the HONEYbee, and maybe she'll lighten up. Wouldn't hurt to check into your local ordinances just to be sure... 

Quote from Adlai Stevenson: "Diplomacy is the art of telling someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip." Anlways loved that one.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Do you have an alternative yard to move them to?? Just in case.........

If she is truly phobic (received therapy for), even though unreasonable, you may have to move them. True phobias are devestating.

Being hardnosed will probably get you no where. She could break out insecticides rather than repellants (within her rights).

Sorry for your delemma and good luck. Hope you do not have to move them.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

My favorite is to move the hive to another yard and put an empty hive where the hive was. The next time she complains there are too many bees in her yard take her to the empty box and show her that you have no bees there. Hoepfully she'll realized it's her perception that there are more bees, not reality. Then one night, bring them back.


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## rweakley (Jul 2, 2004)

She's a Renter. Tell her to go to H#!!, do not pass go, do not collect 200$. But then again I've always been told I have a problem with diplomacy.


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## The Honey House (May 10, 2000)

Research local laws and act professional.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Definatly check local laws. 

I could not find any regarding bees............


But here are a few state laws that are still on the books.

Location: Washington
There is a ban on lollipops. -More proof people can and will ban anything.
This law still exists.

Location: Washington
All lollipops are banned.
This law still exists.

Location: Washington
A law to reduce crime states: "It is mandatory for a motorist with criminal intentions to stop at the city limits and telephone the chief of police as he is entering the town."
This law still exists.

Location: Washington
It is illegal to paint polka dots on the American flag.
This law still exists.

Location: Washington
People may not buy a mattress on Sunday.
This law still exists.

Location: Washington
All motor vehicles must be preceded by a man carrying a red flag (daytime) or a red lantern (nighttime) fifty feet in front of said vehicle.
This law still exists.

Location: Washington
It is illegal to pretend that one's parents are rich.
This law still exists.

Location: Washington
You are not allowed to breast feed in public.
This law still exists.

Location: Washington
When two trains come to a crossing, neither shall go until the other has passed.
This law still exists.

Location: Washington
You cannot buy meat of any kind on Sunday.


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## naturebee (Dec 25, 2004)

I'm with rwjedi ! Great answer! 

,,, Her saying she wants them gone doesnt sound like someone willing to compromise, so I wouldn't even waste the effort.


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## AJ Christ (Jun 8, 2005)

Set up a couple of empty hiveswhere she can see them and make sure the hives with the bees are out of her sight. Tel her you ain't got bees in the empty hives and show her. If she gets stung, have her prove it was your bee.

Nazis that demand can't be reasoned with. In a way, I'm with rwjedi too!


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## BubbaBob (Jan 18, 2005)

Here's an interesting article regarding nazi-like tactics by a local sheriff's department regarding bees ... by the way, I'll win this one. It's from the Pickens Progress in Jasper, GA a few weeks ago.

http://www.pickensprogress.com/archive/litteringfine.htm

BubbaBob


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## linesman75 (Jun 13, 2004)

I like taking my observation hivr over, allong with my dauters and show the neberhood kids.


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## Frohnho (Feb 17, 2002)

play dumb
First encounter "Really ? ohhh my roommate didn't tell me"
Second encounter "Ohhh darn I forgot to move the bees"
third encounter "I'm sorry, do I know you ?"


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## Sourwood (Mar 20, 2005)

I have worked with the public for over 13 years. Some people can be reasoned with, others can not no matter how elegantly you explain or show them something. My guess is she's totally ignorant of honeybee behaviour or her fears would be void to begin with. Nothing beats a good education, so brush up on your honeybee knowledge. 

First, I would definetly check to see if any local ordinances apply concerning the location of your hives. This will give you peace of mind (hopefully)from a legal standpoint. Second, I would not make any compromise like the one you mentioned. Rest assured she will call shortly afterwards alleging she or her child got stung by one of your bees (whether or not it's true)and then you will be obligated to keep your promise with her.

You mentioned a key word to me in your post, "renter". Here today gone tommorow if she is like most I know. And unless you feel compelled or see the need to track her down, she's the one with the complaint, make her come find you. And lastly, if and when you two talk, be professional and humble. A war is the last thing you need. She could become nasty and put out pesticides that might kill your bees. 

I wish you the best of luck.


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## Branman (Aug 20, 2003)

I just had another idea. This is sorta out there and I apologize if I offend anyone. You could claim that you have MS and you are using the hives for your sting therapy. Or possibly sting therapy for a close friend.

I'm an honest guy, honest


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## The7Cs (Apr 25, 2005)

Tell her that the honeybees have been on the property well advance of her arrival, and renewed a 5-year lease at the first of the year. They're remaining within the bounds of their lease (paid in honey), and so you have no grounds to evict them. Let her know that she should really try to get over her prejudices, and that you will continue to abide by the Fair Housing Act. 

As another idea, go to the hives, pick out a dozen or two drones, place them inside your veil, and go over wearing the veil with a bunch of drones buzzing around your face. 

On a more serious note, my wife suggested buying a children's beekeeping book as a gift for her and her daughter. *MAYBE* she'll be able to both read and understand it. If not, it's at least a nice gesture.


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## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

Lets see...

Moving the hives, lying, playing misleading games
with empty equipment, bribery with honey, some of
these tactics strike me as less than ethical, and 
none of them would be as effective as the simple 
truth.

How about trying some basic EDUCATION?

Take them to a patch of clover or somewhere else
where bees are working the blooms and SHOW them
that foraging bees are not going to sting them
unless they try very very hard to get stung.
Let them try and catch a bee with a plastic cup
and a small sheet of cardboard - its difficult -
most often the bee will flee.

Now, an honest man must admit that bare feet
and a lawn full of clover increases the odds
of being stung, but is wearing shoes or sandals
all that much of a burden for a mother who fears
that her child MIGHT be allergic? I think not.

Many softball and wiffleball games were halted
when one of the players stepped on a bee when
I was a kid, and lo and behold, not a single one
of them died or even needed medical attention.

The usual treatment was nothing more than baking
soda on the sting, and a chocolate-chip cookie as
a endorphin generator and neurotransmitter aid. 
(Mother makes great cookies.)

The current generation of young mothers may
themselves never seen many bees, as mothers
now in their 20s were born in the 80s, after
the mites started taking out the feral colonies.

But foraging bees are VERY difficult to get
to sting. Try it yourself - most times you
will kill the bee before it stings you.


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

Lots of great ideas and approachs to dealing with this problem. I'm basically of the "Tell them to go pound sand" school but that isn't necessarily the best approach. Education and bribery might work, and should be tried first. If you're not doing anything illegal, then stand your ground but be prepared to defend yourself at a planning board meeting or zoning board hearing or in front of whatever city/town organisation that a complaint might be brought to by your neighbor.

In the end, it might just be easier to move your hives to a more rural location and get on with life.

George-


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## scsasdsa (Jan 23, 2004)

Check local laws and ordinances reguarding Keeping Bees, brush up on your Honeybee facts, find out if this is a single mother or a complete family, if a complete family talk with the man first and get to know him a little, sometimes this will get you some leverage. If a single mother attempt to educate her and her daughter about Honey bees and their beneficial role in pollination, offer some honey, and neighborly assistance when appopriate. Treat this as though you are trying to sell yourself to these people, be polite courteous and helpful but be firm in reguards to keeping your bees. If you can get the mother to come over to see the hives and bees even if you have to have her wear your veil this should relieve her fears maybe even make her curious about the hives and get a new friend. Kids are just naturally curious and are easy to win over the mother will be the hardest. Good luck.


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## Cyndi (Apr 26, 2005)

I'm with Jim on this one...EDUCATION. I homeschool my daughter and beekeeping is part of our science. Its amazing how people change when they actually experience and watch what bees do. I would encourage your neighbor and her child to have the experience of learning about bees and how they are good for nature and how they make honey. Invite them over for a demonstration. My daughter is almost over her fear of bees - we just started this year. I bought her a suit and everything..It's great!! Definitely give her a jar of honey:~)

P.S. If all else fails...then go to drastic measures...tell her to go to h%^l


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## The7Cs (Apr 25, 2005)

Cyndi,

If you homeschool your daughter, you should be well aware that independant thought is NOT a skill that most people come with. Unless you produce a Hollywood movie showing honeybees as saving the world, most mor.. er.. uh.. people will continue to believe what the mass media and government system has told them to believe, and will be very resistant to any idea contrary to it. Few people will willingly allow fact and logic to interfere with their well established and cozy opinions and prejudices. :-D

Best wishes to Chief on it nonetheless. By the way, Chief, you said "tonight" a couple of days ago now. Got an update for us?


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## Cyndi (Apr 26, 2005)

Joe, 

Your right...I forget that I'm not a "normal" person in today's world, LOL!!! Being the independant person that I am, I don't watch the news, I don't do TV unless its on a DVD (I live in mountains with terrible reception and No thanks for a Satellite). What a great analysis of human beings in today's world...I couldn't have said it better myself. 

Guess chief will have to use some very "skillful" means to get along with this person. Although, you could try firs being nice and the bigger person. Good luck. 

P.S. I can relate to the neighbors from h*&l, except mine drink moonshine, sing all night and then unload their pistols at 2 in the morning. Thank god they are not that close to me and its only noise on the weekends. Once I asked them not to sing....they just sang louder


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## magnet-man (Jul 10, 2004)

Keep the bees. She is a renter and will be gone soon enough. In the mean time tell her to jump in the lake.


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## Troutsqueezer (May 17, 2005)

Tell your neighbor that at first, you couldn't decide if you wanted to keep bees or train pitbulls. After some thought, you decided on the bees. However, with a little encouragement, you might change your mind and go with the pit bulls. You might even ask her opinion. 

I wonder which one she would pick?


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## Robert166 (Mar 12, 2005)

Joe a.k.a. The7Cs nailed it. A direct hit. I agree 100%. I just wish I had thought of it first.


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## Trevor Mansell (Jan 16, 2005)

Just ask yourself "What would Tony Sopprano do?"


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## mark williams (Jan 19, 2003)

Shoot her,Right after you tell her to go to [email protected]#.


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## searcher (May 26, 2005)

[No message]


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## Reptyle (Feb 6, 2005)

Anyone ever hear how this turned out?


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## magnet-man (Jul 10, 2004)

I saw a news story on CNN about some crazy beekeeper killing the renter nextdoor with bees.


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## Reptyle (Feb 6, 2005)

Well, at least it had a happy ending...


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## Darrel Wright (Jun 30, 2004)

I think the "go to hell" camp is pretty foolish. What happens when the frantic idiot woman gets angry and does some self-education that leads to a dish of sugar syrup laced with pesticide or a town ban?

MB is right on track with the empty hive device, and it is not in any way deceptive...just a concrete way to get people to realize that bees exist without beekeepers. I'd push the idea that "tame" bees are more predictable and gentler than "wild" bees (somewhat true), and that the habitat in her yard is really the thing that determines the presence of bees or not. If she eliminates clover, there will be no bees in her lawn regardless of how many hives you have, and if she has clover, bees will be there whether they are yours or not. Hopefully she's into supply side economics.


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## chief (Apr 19, 2005)

Just a quick note to update everyone on my neighbor problem. I have been out of town for a few days and have put off any confrontation so far. She has now put up those "tiki" torches around her yard to keep the bees out. I watched for about an hour yesterday and saw only a couple bees fly over her yard. I'm glad I waited for all the replies to this post before I go over there to talk with her. Lots of good ideas. I'm going to try the diplomatic/education approach first but if that doesnt work then I'll hold my ground and keep my bees regardless.


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## Reptyle (Feb 6, 2005)

Best of luck to ya...


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## Troutsqueezer (May 17, 2005)

Ah, the ol' tiki torch trick...Let's see, daughter playing around bees - might get stung, daughter playing around tiki torches filled with flammable liquid - hmmm...tough call.


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## amymcg (Jan 13, 2005)

So she has the tiki torches lit during the daytime?


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## Cyndi (Apr 26, 2005)

If she is lighting Tiki Torches..its obvious that she is clueless. I think you have a great chance at educating this woman. If you had an observation hive to show her and her child...I bet she would change her mind about bees. 

When I went to Brushy Mountain to pick up my bees, I was so amazed at how many children were there. One little girl had her entire face in the bee hive that Steve was demonstrating on. The Mother tried to get her back, but she didn't care. Steve politely responded to the girl that she might not want to stick her face in the box, but still, she was so curious. Then Steve was telling and showing everyone, "you really need to learn how to pick the bees up and handle them"...it was so neat the way he presented the bees and after it was over, my comfort level as a new beekeeper, with the bees has been amazing. So, it really is all in the presentation. I think Steve's experience with bees and his way of dealing with humans blended together nicely in his presentation.


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## fhafer (Mar 27, 2005)

If you're not violating an ordinance by keeping bees I'd forget about it. It's her problem, not yours. If you engage her in any way you are legitimizing her irrational behavior. Let it go and allow her to bounce around like a BB in a bucket.....people like that are fun to watch.


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## Darrel Wright (Jun 30, 2004)

"If you engage her in any way you are legitimizing her irrational behavior"

I don't know about that. I think you can go over and say that it is natural to fear stinging insects, but that they are a simple fact of life and that your keeping bees isn't going to raise her risk. She is no more at risk than anyone else in a 1 or 2 mile radius, and there are surely other hives in that distance. If she simply won't accept education, then by all means just say that you will do what you can to help allay her fears--including keeping an epipen where she could get it if needed-- besides giving the bees up.


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## SuperBee (Mar 9, 2005)

she sounds like the type of woman that will always find something to complain about. if you ignore her she will probably find something/somebody else to bother.

a flaming bag of dog poop might help.


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## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

I am ashamed at some of the tactics suggested
in this thread.

Realize that while the neighbor may be ignorant
about bees, it is the beekeeper who is doing
something highly unusual, given a suburban setting.

Out in the country, my approach to any potential
"neighbor problems" is to buy adjoining parcels
of land. (All I want is my land, and all the
land that adjoins it.) This is the only sure-fire
way to have "no complaints", but it is not cheap.

Clearly, a little education is in order here,
but kindness is required too. The neighbor's
reaction is NORMAL, the affinity for hundreds
of thousands of stinging insects is ABNORMAL.

Flaming dog poop? Grow up!


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## oregonsparkie (Apr 12, 2004)

Chief,

Just remember she is just human and deserves the same respect as you would expect from someone else. 

Apparently she is just un-educated about bees, I would try and educate her if she is receptive. If not then address it at that point.


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## Hillside (Jul 12, 2004)

"the affinity for hundreds
of thousands of stinging insects is ABNORMAL"

Ouch. That kind of hurts. Could I talk you into really, really, unusual?


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## Butterchurn (Jan 13, 2005)

I have a similar situation with a neighbor. I keep my bees at my 10 year-old protege's house. Her neighbor across the street is the complain about everything, threaten to call the police type.

She is terrified of bees, but has a garden that is a bee paradise, which she admits already attracts bees without the addition of mine.

So, the family of my protege is affraid to go over and talk to her. One day I was inspecting my bees (just walking in front of the hives, stooping down and pulling weeds from the entrances without any protective gear). I saw that she and her husband were sitting on their patio. So I decided to go and talk to them. I acted ignorant, as if I had no idea she hates bees.

I simply approached them and introduced myself. I said they probably have seen me with the bees and I thought I'd introduce myself. I told them who I was and talked about the bees. I said I'd love to give them some honey. They talked about their fear of bees which I said I understood. I was able to talk to them about honey bees being gentle and nonaggressive away from their hives. The two were pleasant, promised to swat any bees they saw in their yard and bring me a jar full when they had enough bees. They accepted the offer of honey, though.

Now they call me the beeman, and they stay away from the bees, but they don't complain to anyone. I think my contact with them helped. Especially since I remained friendly and polite. I chuckled at their swatting remark and said I'd mark all my bees so they knew which were mine. We had a good laugh.

My goal is to get through this year without any bee incidents with these neighbors. If I practice good management, this should be achieved. Then I think they will be less concerned about them and be more accepting of them even if I don't make converts out of them. They were reasonable and nonconfrontive.

Some people are impossible to reason with, must have some kind of personality disorder, but attempt to talk with them. Take over some honey, be polite and warm, don't argue with them.
Don't offer to remove the bees. She will take you up on it!

As a child I remeber being stung repeatedly on my bare feet by bees on the dutch clover in our lawn. Just a part of life. I would counter by catching them in jars watching them and letting them go after a while. With fewer bees and fewer people actually allowing clover to grow in lawns it seems we are adding another boundary between people and the natural world. Sad.

Ron


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## dickm (May 19, 2002)

A beekeeper friend had 2 swarms in 2 days. His frightened neighbor called to say theres something going on with the bees. It's like smoke over your yard there are thousands of them and on and on. Really frightened people. My friend did what he could to calm them. When the next swarm issued a few days later he invited them over. Standing unprotected next to the swarm he again explained the non-agressive nature of the bees. I think they are better neighbors.

If you have another option on where you can keep the bees, I wish you would consider it. One stubborn fight about this can damage all the keepers in the town. 

Dickm


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## Elizabeth (Jun 27, 2005)

I'm new to the forum and beekeeping. Started with two hives, one swarmed so now we have three and an extra hive on hand. I spent 20 minutes with a honey bee in hand trying to make her sting me - LOL - it happens now and then. My neighbor has been waiting to see the bees in his yard and wanted to know how to keep them from drowning in his manmade pond. My other vacant lot neighbor works for the Forestry Dept. and is very curious about them. I live in a farming and fishing community. Bee Hives are rented for crop pollination. I agree with those who say some people just love to complain and will manage to find something wherever they live. I believe you are right to move them out of sight if possible and let her bee - chuckle. There will probably be nothing you can do to change her opinion. Yet education is the best response. Good luck - maybe she is only renting month to month and already looking to move.


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## chief (Apr 19, 2005)

Well I bit the bullet and went to talk to my new neighbor tonight. It was way worse than I thought. I was as nice to her as possible but she still wants them gone ASAP!! She started out saying it was all for her daughter and they only have one car and if her daughter gets stung and is allergic to bees she will have no way to get her to the hospital. I told her that if her daughter is allergic to bees that she should be checked because she will be stung at some point in her life whether by my bees or someone else’s. I then tried to teach her that bees were relatively docile and that she need not worry about them bothering her daughter. She wasn’t interested in that. Then she changed tones a little and said she has called some “authority” about bees and has assured me that it is illegal to have bees on my “small” residential lot. I have the state, county, and city codes all of which say I am within the law. She wasn’t interested in that either. She claims her husband is deathly allergic to bees to, that it runs in his family and he stepped on some bees that had a hive in the ground and got stung so many times that now he is deathly allergic. I asked if any of her family had been stung, if the bees were bumping into them, or flying around their heads and she admitted that the weren’t. So I gave her my Beekeeping for Dummies book so she could learn more about bees and why I keep them. (I hope she doesn’t take it the wrong way. LOL.) She said that no matter how much she learns about bees she still doesn’t want them next to her yard. She also tried to get a hold of the state but we have no bee inspector anymore. She then informed me new of “private” individuals that could take care of this matter. I’m not sure what that means but I don’t think it will keep me up at night. I finally told her I would do all in my power to keep them out of her yard “and we’ll go from there.” She didn’t like that much probably cause she could tell I was really saying I don’t plan on doing anything. I don’t think she is bluffing about taking this matter further so I will plan on hearing from some third party in the near future “and we’ll go from there.”


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Good Luck, she sounds unresonable. It sounds like you have done your homework on local codes so all should be OK.

If they are indeed allergic....... be prepared for a lawsuit. Even though codes support you, if someone is hurt by your bees you are most likely liable. 

Talk to your insurance agent for sure.


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## spencer (Dec 7, 2004)

Just wondering how could they prove it was his bees that stung them?


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## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

Here's a good tactic - buy some latticework
at your local home-improvement center, and
erect a barrier 4 to 6 feet from the fronts
of the hive entrances. This will prompt the
bees to seek a higher altitude upon taking flight,
one that they will maintain as they fly here
and there. Most people will not notice a bee
unless it is flying at eye level or below.
If their yard has nothing of interest to bees,
they will land elsewhere, stay above head
height when flying over the yard in question.

> stepped on some bees that had a hive in the 
> ground and got stung so many times that now 
> is deathly allergic

As you well know, that's not how it works.
Someone stepping on a colony in the ground
(bumblebees, yellowjackets) might have a
NORMAL reaction to a dozen stings, but this
is simply a function of the number of stings,
and would not make the person allergic.

If someone were to tell me that they were
allergic to insect stings, I would ask them
where their Epi-Pen was. When they stuttered
and stammered, I would ask them to stop lying,
as any actual allergic person would carry an
Epi-Pen with them at all times, on doctor's
orders. I would also ask them for the name
of the doctor who treats them for this allergy.
The point here is to expose the lie.

No Epi-Pen, no actual allergy.

> She then informed me new of private 
> individuals that could take care of this matter.

As there clearly is no private party with the
legal ability to do this, that was a threat to
hire someone to poison or vandalize your hives,
or perhaps do violence to you and your family.

Given her statements, I would contact her landlord
and give a brief, unemotional, and even-handed
report on the interactions you have had with her,
just to let him know that his tenant has
threatened you, your family, and your bees in
a vague, yet mafia-like manner.

I would also contact the cops, and report the
threats to them. Such threats are a criminal
act in themselves, and she needs to be slapped
down hard and made aware that things like
trespass and vandalism are crimes. It is a
general "good idea" to be the first one to
report a problem to the cops. This puts you
in the position of being the "potential victim"
rather than putting you in a defensive position.

Most likely, her idea is to have her husband spray
the hives themselves rather than the fence.
It won't work of course, but it would be bad for
the hives to lose that many bees. Time to
padlock the gates to the back yard. Sad.

While you are at the home improvement store,
buy the smallest weatherproof electrical enclosure
they offer, and glue a plastic shotglass to the
side of the case. Paint the sides of the
shotglass to look like a camera lens, mount it
in an easy-to-see location near the hives,
"pointed" at the hives. The idea here is to
create a bogus, but realistic-looking "security
camera". Extra credit would be awarded for
putting an LED powered by a battery (stop off at
Radio Shack for them) in the body of the case for
that extra-special "big brother is watching"
effect, as everyone "knows" that the red light
means that the camera is "on".









We have a security system here at Farmageddon
as it gives us a serious discount on insurance.
Fully 3/4 of the "cameras" are dummy units.
The dummy units even "pan" back and forth, as
they have small solar panels on top, hooked
to a drive motor inside.


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## magnet-man (Jul 10, 2004)

Chef, your homeowners insurance should cover you in a lawsuit and provide an attorney as long as it is truly a hobby and not a side business. If you have two hives and sell the honey, is it a hobby or a side business to your insurance company? If someone does get stung and goes to the emergency room because of fear, you will likely end up in small claims court. The burden of proof is on her that it was a bee and that it was your bee. 

The private individual remark sounds like a veil threat to me, but is most likely an idle one. If you find your hive dead, you will know who did it though. 

She may be a nut case and it is always hard to know how to deal with them. Do you say hello or wave when you see them or do you ignore them? Depending upon the individual saying hello might set them off. I would keep the hives as low key as possible and not work them when they are outside. Expect to get a few visits from the animal control officer like I did. After they have been out three or four times they will not be very responsive to her phone calls.

Hope she doesnt turn into a first class loony. I had an old lady down the street from me, before bees, that called the police on me monthly. Had stories that my whole family including my infant son broke into her house and took things. Then we would return them or move window curtains. She would even put notes on the neighbor doors saying that I was a drug dealer and in jail. Before me, it was the gay couple next door to her. She claimed one of the guys would get on her roof and dance at night, but you get the picture. If she is that type there is nothing you can do because you are already in her cross-hairs.


Jim, does have good advice on this. I would think hard about following it.


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## oregonsparkie (Apr 12, 2004)

I have also had people tell me that they were allergic to bee stings because they swell up, and we all know that is normal for most people, truely allergic people(like jfisher) said carry a epi-peen.

I think it is mostly ignorance on the general public to think that swelling is an allergic reaction.


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## ChellesBees (Apr 1, 2003)

Do you know her landlord? Do you have a good relationship with him/her? If so, I would talk to them, (the landlord) mention the epipen issue, (if she doesn't have one, and everyone is so allergic, she is the negligent one)and the bee hysteria. See if the landlord has any suggestions. Otherwise, don't engage in any further discussion with that woman. She doesn't sound rational, and anything you say to her will make it worse. Be civil if you see her, but do not discuss bees. If you can lock up your yard, that would be good-anything to keep your hives safe from her. Keep a camera ready, and if you catch her or anyone else in your yard for any reason, take photos and notify the authorities. You are within your rights, and she needs to grow up. As long as she can't see your hives everytime she goes into her backyard, things may die down. If she is that irrational, most likely someting else will get her going soon, and she will forget the bees. Just do not get into a confrontation with her. I would also really hesitate to offer an epi pen in an emergency. That would probably garantee a lawsuit. That's what 911 is for. I wouldn't even have one available. 
Good Luck


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## amymcg (Jan 13, 2005)

I live with a cop. You need to file something with the police department in the event something does happen to your hives. Just go down there and ask to file an incident report so it's on file and if something does happen later on then it's there.

If she does manage to have someone vandalize your equipment then when you try to blame them, the police detective will ask you why you didn't file a report when she threatened you to begin with.

You have to do everything you can to cover your arse. Even if her threats are idle. You already know she's lying about the ordinances. She's probably also lying about the allergies, though we don't really know. 

And while I am a good neighbor and all that, I keep my bees in a remote area of my yard and only work the hives during the weekdays when I know they aren't around and I'm not attracting their attention.

I wouldn't bother the landlord unless you have to, he's not going to give a rat's ass most of the time.


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## Robert Hawkins (May 27, 2005)

Amy is right. I was a cop for eight years. you need to file a report. If you ever have a need to speak with her landlord, mention the report. That gives him enough reason to evict her if he wants. It's a standard clause in rental contracts.

Also You want to be the one to report it first. AS much as it hurts to agree with Jim F. on something the first person who is listed as "Victim" is generally considered the one who asked the police for help. And that's why they became cops. To help people.

Hawk


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## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

> As much as it hurts to agree with Jim F. on 
> something...

....huh?
Qu'est-ce que c'est?
Pourquoi?
Where the heck did THAT come from?


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## rweakley (Jul 2, 2004)

You SEE!!! I knew my response was the correct one. LOL Now that you have tried MR. NICEGUY it's time to play hardball. I like the idea of filing a report with the police. I also Love J.F. suggestion on a camera. You wouldn't even have to make a fake one, you can buy "fake" ones. My concern would be if your hives are closer than 30 ft from the fence line she will be able to hit your hive with one of those Hornet and wasp sprays that spray a long distance. Good luck friend, stick to your guns.


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## Robert Hawkins (May 27, 2005)

Just makin' sure you'er awake Jim. lol

Hawk


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## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

> Just makin' sure you'er awake Jim. lol

...zzzzzzzz... huh? wha? ummm... ok... zzzzz....


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## searcher (May 26, 2005)

[No message]


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## jim b (Oct 3, 2004)

I agree with searcher, probably from Callyfornya.


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## dickm (May 19, 2002)

Move the GD bees! It's not worth the energy. (If you like playing games install 6 empty hives.) There are lots of people that would welcome them. Pollination you know.

Dickm


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## magnet-man (Jul 10, 2004)

Hey Chef how did the 4th of July go with the neighbor?


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## Lively Bee's (Dec 9, 2004)

Lady behind me hates my hive. Told her she need to do what she can to keep them out of her yard. That I was not going to move the hive now after it had been there all year.


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## James Henderson (Jun 20, 2005)

I hope I am not beating a dead horse, but education of neighbors is important. The out of sight out of mind philosophy sounds good too. 

As I continue to convert my boring St. Augustine lawn into a useful edible/flowering landscape to be eventually devoid of St. Augustine or any lawn grass, I have noticed a dramatic increase of all types of bees in my expanding gardens from honeybees to numerous other bees, wasps not to mention butterflies and ruby-throated hummingbirds.

Many of my neighbors stop and check out the main gardens in my front yard. While looking at the explosion of flowering shrubs, herbs, and vines, they ask if I am afraid of being stung by all of the bees. I say no. I explain that if you don't screw with them, they won't screw with you. I have all types of bees around me when maintaining the gardens (deadheading, planting, trimming) and have yet to be stung. I tell my neighbors that once a bee stings, it will die and I am sure the bee knows this. Stinging is simply a defense reaction to protect their hive. Just leave the bees alone and they won't bother you. I also tell them not to swat at them.

I also mention that while working along the US-Mexican border, many times Africanized honeybees land on me and lick the sweat off my body or cruise in my direction, being attracted by my bright orange field vest. I don't screw with the Africanized bees and they don't screw with me. It is a bit un-nerving to have a dozen killer bees lapping sweat off my arms. I am more concerned about running into AK-47 toting drug runners in the desert than bees OR venemous snakes.

By next spring when I install my first hive, I will have a large water garden operating in the back yard near the hive, a small water feature in the front, and at least a hundred more flowering shrubs, vines, and herbs in addition to vegetables. The hive should have a hefty buffet to keep them happy.

One suggestion is to "bribe" your neighbors with fruits and vegetables from your gardens besides honey. My intensive gardening practice already creates a massive abundance of organically grown vegetables, fruits, and culinary herbs. The last two weeks I've already harvested 10 cantaloupes and a ton of peppers, cucumbers, zuchinni, carrots, and African winter sqaush. I regularly keep all of my neighbors well bribed with homegrown produce.

North Leighton Gardens


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## amymcg (Jan 13, 2005)

Any update on your situation?


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## FordGuy (Jul 10, 2005)

find several drones and put them in your mouth while she watches. wait, dont' do that. just explain they are gentle italians, walk up to the hive without your suit while not touching it, get so close you can demonstrate they are gentle and tell her beehives are all around anyway, and if you remove the domestic hives...nature abhors a vacume...wild nasty ones will move in, probably africans....


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## gds (May 18, 2004)

Is she hot? Maybe ya'll can hook up when her husbands not around! j/k! Or just use the flaming bag method.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Catching a drone bare handed is always nice.


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

If you guys are going that route, do it right. I would just pinch one lightly, like picking up a queen, then set her on my forearm and let the lady see her sting me. It will either make her think they don't hurt like the wild bees, or it will gross her out so far she will never return.

I love doing that when I really want to get someone's attention.


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## clintonbemrose (Oct 23, 2001)

I agree with Jim Fischer!!!
Clint


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## FordGuy (Jul 10, 2005)

Well I bit the bullet and went to talk to my new neighbor tonight. It was way worse than I thought. .... So I gave her my Beekeeping for Dummies book.

Ooooo - hope she doesn't misunderstand that one! I think she possibly has looked into something called "Privete nuisance" law. I wonder of other lawyers here if beekeeping could be considered an "inherently dangerous activity" like blasting with explosives for example, which is the generally recognized standard for IDA.

and by the way, who ever suggested writing "honey is good" in her grass with "roundup" shame on you! and the guy that said you should use her mail box as a three frame nuc, that's terrible!


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## izduz (Apr 28, 2005)

Here in the "beehive" state, there are no laws against keeping bees. However, the Utah version of the nuisance law is all that's required to cause you move your bees. So far, no problems here, but I've been lucky. One neighbor is a cop working nights that sleeps all day. Another is an 84 year old woman that thinks the more I piss off the rest of the neighborhood, the more fun it is. Even so, I try to keep a low profile.


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## Bryon (Mar 29, 2005)

I've just read through this entire topic thred and laughed alot at some of the sugjestions. teh one about using the mail box as a three frame nuck really made me laugh. Sounds like a waste of bees though. Still, it's pretty funny. 

As I have just aquired my friest hive this past week and it is now sitting in my back yard, I'd like to knwo waht ever happoned to the neighbor lady who hated the bees. 

Since the swarm I cought was small and I've been doing my best to keep plenty of feed, I dont' see them flying too far too often. I'm sure that once they grow stronger they will be going far and wide looking for food. Sooner or later I think I'll have to deal with one or more of the neighbors. 

one thing I may have in my favor is the fact that there used to be a house not more than 200 feet from where I live that used to have a bunch of bee hives out front. I remember riding my bike through the bees as we road by. One of the people down around the corner used to have two hives back then also. but that was late 70's early 80's. alot has changed since them. now all you hear about on the news when the word be is mentions it is almost always preceded by the word killer or africanized. People freak over any little thing now days. they fear what they dont' understand and dont' wish to understand that witch they fear.


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

See this followup thread:

http://www.beesource.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=004783


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