# D Coates Nuc



## Jim_in_PA (May 17, 2016)

If you use plywood that's made with exterior rated glues, you should be fine, especially after painting. No need for PT ply...and that's way too wet to work with in most cases. But exterior grade is important.


----------



## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

I would modify the design slightly to make telescoping tops instead of the migratory tops called out in the plans and then cover with aluminum flashing. Otherwise the tops will warp, allowing rain and robbers to get into the hive. 

I expect to get about four years of use from my plywood nuc swarm traps.

Keep in mind these are not standard dimension nucs so adding a second story or a feeder may prove to be problematic.I built several different nucs from internet plans before I said to heck with it and started copying the Brushy Mountain nuc. Not as cheap to be sure but all the equipment works with everything else. Check out Scott Hendriks on youtube for some tips on mass producing hive components.


----------



## Branman (Aug 20, 2003)

Check out using Advantech and making nucs with the plans on this site. You can stack or do whatever you want with them and the Advantech holds up. It is very heavy though.


----------



## My-smokepole (Apr 14, 2008)

I have some nucs that where made with plywood side that have to be 30 years old. Came to me from another beekeeper. I do a modified version. Where the sides and bottom are out of 3/4 wood. With 3/8 covering where the rabbit is.


----------



## Eikel (Mar 12, 2014)

> Where the sides and bottom are out of 3/4 wood. With 3/8 covering where the rabbit is.


My-smokepole, could you elaborate; exactly where are you removing 3/8" and why the modification?


----------



## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

I made about a dozen of the Coates nucs about 6 years ago they were painted and are still in good shape now with exception of the lids. I had problems with them warping and eventually replaced them with painted Advantech lids which worked so good that I started using Advantech for solid bottom boards and migratory lids. The one fault I found with the Coates nucs was that they were a little narrow and did not allow much space between frames and subsequently I have made nucs using Advantech for the front and back and lid and ply for the sides and bottom as it is glued and nailed also inside is 1/4" wider to allow a little more space to remove frames.
Johno


----------



## brushwoodnursery (Feb 10, 2012)

I really appreciate everyone's input. This is great! My concern with advantech would be the chemistry in the glue. Plywood has glue, too, but not on the face the bees will work since it's a laminate product instead of a chip product. Has anyone seen a difference in bee health in chip products vs plywood vs cypress (my choice if I had plenty of $).


----------



## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Watch some of the Barnyard Bees videos. All of his nucs and mating nucs are Advantech, and he has a bunch of them. Not pretty, but very serviceable.


----------



## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

There are a bunch of Advantech threads here: http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?317916-Advantech-(plywood-alternative)-for-woodenware

Granted, I did _not_ just re-read those threads, but I'm fairly sure none of those members with actual experience with the product have posted about bee problems with Advantech.


----------



## brushwoodnursery (Feb 10, 2012)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> There are a bunch of Advantech threads here: http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?317916-Advantech-(plywood-alternative)-for-woodenware
> 
> Granted, I did _not_ just re-read those threads, but I'm fairly sure none of those members with actual experience with the product have posted about bee problems with Advantech.


Thanks!


----------



## My-smokepole (Apr 14, 2008)

Eikel I don't like stapling into plywood end grain. Especially half-inch. My basic box is 8" wide bottom and end pieces. Sides are like 11" by 22 if I remember right. Off hand I don't remember how long I cut the ends but around 9 1/2" long. Cover up end piece is 8" wide by what ever scrape width is. Say 2" 
I keep my eyes open for cheep to free 1x8 and wider durning the year. Then build a bunch during winter. I have a Home Depot and a Lowes with in a mile of me and being in the construction business I get in there often. All dimensions are approximate.
David


----------



## orthoman (Feb 23, 2013)

I have also made a lot of D. Coates nucs. I like the ease in cutting out the parts and how simple they are to put together. A little Titebond III and ring shank nails and you have a nice solid box. I paint them all and so far, they have been going several years -- and so far, none have failed. 

You can easily alter the dimension to fit your needs. In my case, I chose to use 3/4 inch plywood (exterior) and have adjusted dimension to a account for the thicker wood so that I can put in 5 frames and a little extra carpentry is required but no big deal. As mentioned, I would also suggest a telescoping cover if you live in wet/damp environment. Another adjustment is with the opening at the entrance to allow inserting an OA vaporizer.


----------



## Eikel (Mar 12, 2014)

David, you mentioned the sides and bottom are 3/4" with 3/8 covering where the rabbit is, is the top 3/8" material rather also being 3/4?"


----------



## Cuttingedgelandinc (Mar 3, 2015)

Many of my bottom boards as well as migratory covers are made with advantech. 
I have not seen any problems with my bees from using it. I do take the extra step and paint the outer covers. It makes them hold up better.


----------



## My-smokepole (Apr 14, 2008)

I mostly use plywood. With wood cleats on the ends. Been lucking out and getting sign grade plywood. Witch I have used the last couple years.


----------



## ShrekVa (Jan 13, 2011)

I've only been using advantech for nucs for 2 years but they are performing well, and look nice to me. I've been using them for lids and bottoms for a little bit longer with good results also.


----------



## Sour Kraut (Jun 17, 2012)

brushwoodnursery said:


> Stepping up production next year and I need a bunch of nucs. The D Coates plans in Build It look great! I'd like to know their longevity. I can paint them well but they're still plywood. Are these strictly for selling nucs or would they possibly hold up for a few years?


No idea but since i'm going to need some small boxes, I cut up plywood for 8 in about 2 hours yesterday.

Assembly with an air stapler took all of 5 minutes for the first one.


----------



## My-smokepole (Apr 14, 2008)

In exterior plywood painted you should get lots of years out of them.


----------



## Sour Kraut (Jun 17, 2012)

My-smokepole said:


> In exterior plywood painted you should get lots of years out of them.


Well, 24 bucks plus tax for a sheet of plywood, add an hour per sheet to cut it up and 5 minutes each to staple them together..if your time is worth 15 / hour that's still only 45 total or maybe 12 each.........add a gallon of returned-to-the-store-cause-the-wife-didn't-like-the-color paint @ $ 12 and you're still only at an outside figure of under 15 dollars. five frames w foundation @ $ 2 each and for 25 dollars you have a ready-to-go nuc.


----------



## brushwoodnursery (Feb 10, 2012)

What about cover warping if I don't want to use a telescoping cover? Should I buy some 3/4 plywood for that? (Having a hard time sourcing Advantech here)
I'm ok putting a brick on top of each if that helps.


----------



## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Any plywood is going to warp without some support. That is the advantage of OSB. The telescoping tops on my swarm traps use 1/2" x 1-1/2" strips I rip from 2x4s for the side and end pieces. Tops themselves are from 1/4" plywood, glued, nailed, and covered.


----------



## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

brushwoodnursery said:


> (Having a hard time sourcing Advantech here)


The box stores generally consider 3/4" Advantech to be 'subflooring'. And Lowes says their E Athens GA store has 180 sheets right now: https://www.lowes.com/pd/AdvanTech-...ve-OSB-Subfloor-Application-as-4-x-8/50126556


----------



## brushwoodnursery (Feb 10, 2012)

Thanks, yes, I was there today. I was looking for the 1/2 inch. Maybe best to adjust the dimensions and use it. It's also tongue and groove but I think the recipe has some room for edges to be cut off.


----------



## ShrekVa (Jan 13, 2011)

I like making my nucs stackable, it gives a lot more versatility than the Coates nuc for comparable cost and time.


----------



## brushwoodnursery (Feb 10, 2012)

Do you have plans available? I think the D Coates are stackable.


----------



## ShrekVa (Jan 13, 2011)

brushwoodnursery said:


> Do you have plans available? I think the D Coates are stackable.


Coates have an attached bottom, you can stack them but might not have the same effect.


----------



## brushwoodnursery (Feb 10, 2012)

Oh, I understand.


----------



## My-smokepole (Apr 14, 2008)

84 lumber cares it. Special order from Lowe's and Home Depot otherwise.


----------



## brushwoodnursery (Feb 10, 2012)

Sadly, only 3/4 T&G at 84 as well. I'm about resigned to using it. Heavy and expensive compared to 1/2.


----------



## psm1212 (Feb 9, 2016)

I have several that have made it through 3 seasons and I feel confident will make it at least through a 4th that are unpainted. I agree with the suggestion to modify to make the telescoping top though. Since nucs are more vulnerable to getting robbed out, this is actually a fairly important "upgrade." I have had a couple nucs robbed out through the warped top.


----------



## Riskybizz (Mar 12, 2010)

I remember several years ago making up a bunch of plywood nucs as per the D Coates specs. I used most of them for a couple years and then went to all pine standard 5 and 4 frame nucs. One issue I noticed with the Coates dimensions was that the frames ended up very tight wall to wall and it didn't leave much extra room for prying out fat frames or inserting queen cages and push-in cages. Before you make up a large quantity I would recommend making up a couple and placing some frames with drawn comb in them to make sure it will work for your needs. I much prefer the standard 5 frame nuc boxes made up by the large suppliers like Mann Lake as they are roomy. My 4 frame nuc boxes offer even more space for manipulations. I have always appreciated the extra room for my nucs.


----------



## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

So this discussion has gotten me thinking about building some deep hive bodies out of Advantech. Only the orange big box store only sells LP Topnotch 350. It is similar to the Advantech, but not quite the same. Anyone here ever tried it? I think I can get 5-10 frame deeps and a medium out of one sheet, which at 32.00 makes for some inexpensive wooden ware.


----------



## NorthMaine (Oct 27, 2016)

What makes Advantech different is the waterproof resin they use. Do a quick search, you will see that the LP product absorbs water where the Advantech doesn't. In Richmond VA, Lowes has them Aisle GC 1 , Bay 9, 127 available $30.98 a sheet.


----------



## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

I'll check Lowe's. The Topnotch 350 is waterproof also but only offers a 100-day no sanding guarantee. The Advantech is a 300-day no sanding guarantee. If the price is similar, Advantech is the way to go. Just wondering if anyone had tried the other product.

Edit: Bingo. Lowe's does carry the 23/32" (3/4") Advantech in their Mechanicsville store. Gonna grab some this weekend.


----------



## brushwoodnursery (Feb 10, 2012)

I just scored a few pieces of 23/32 Pinnacle for $15 each to give them a try. The material cost vs my time to cut and assemble might suggest paying more for the panel makes sense and I should have purchased Advantech. Time will tell.


----------



## Bdfarmer555 (Oct 7, 2015)

Built mine out of 1/2" plywood and titebond 3, then wax dipped them. This was 3rd or 4th year and all look good. Expecting 10+ years now. At least 2 have been on high spots in floods and had water 4" deep in them for a week. Sometimes a little lid warpage is a good thing.


----------



## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

I bought a sheet of the 23/32" Advantech today ($32.62 with tax at Lowe's) and made a deep hive body with the strip they had to cut off for me to get it in the back of the SUV. Couple of things about the product I wanted to share.

1. It has an up and down or in our case, inside and outside.
2. The missing 1/32" does make a difference and allowances need to be made when cutting the rabbets and the sides.
3. If you don't get the nails centered they will break out of the sides.
4. Advantech is a lot heavier than pine boards. I haven't weighed it but my guess is 25% heavier.

I used my table saw to cut the rabbets. I think a router or dado blade would probably tear the wood.









Now, back to the bee shop to rip up the rest of the sheet.

Edit. Before some eagle eye calls me out, the end of the box in the picture is inside out should have been on the inside of the box. See number 1.


----------



## brushwoodnursery (Feb 10, 2012)

Just bought the Hitachi stapler. Holy cow! I may never lift a hammer again!!


----------



## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

I used Advantech to make up about 50 supers last year, used the Advantech for front and back and used 5/8 ply for the sides. I used the finished side to the outsides cut the rabbits for the frame rests and for the 5/8" ply going first with my dado blade and the finishing with a router and it worked great. Besides the more water proof finish side Advantech has a sort of grain going length wise as the chips are orientated in this direction.
Johno


----------



## Username (Apr 21, 2017)

How well does Advantech hold up in the frame rest area after repeated propolis scrapings? Does it start to chip out over time, or does the rabbet hold up at least as well as in a pine box?
Brian


----------



## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

I wondered the same thing and decided to to put in the metal L shaped frame rests. Brushy Mountain #650. At .30 per rest you can't go wrong. One of my hives has them now and I may end up doing them all.


----------



## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

I have only used the Advantech supers for a year but see no problems with the frame rests, these are on the end grain of the Advantech. If the ends were cut in the other direction I suppose it would be possible to damage the frame rests.
Johno


----------



## JConnolly (Feb 21, 2015)

Branman said:


> Check out using Advantech and making nucs with the plans on this site. You can stack or do whatever you want with them and the Advantech holds up. It is very heavy though.


This! I started working with Advantech this year and the stuff is fantastic. It's water proof and it stays flat, and it's cheap. I can get it for $28 per sheet from a local lumberyard. I can build medium supers for $4 each. You'll need to adjust the nuc plan dimensions because its 3/4" thick instead of the 1/2" plywood the plans are made for. You should be able to do the nucs for about $7 each (you'll get only 4 nucs per sheet because you are making tops and bottoms as well, while I can get 7 supers per sheet)

The guys at Barnyard bees on Youtube are using it if you want to see some videos about it.


----------



## JConnolly (Feb 21, 2015)

Username said:


> How well does Advantech hold up in the frame rest area after repeated propolis scrapings? Does it start to chip out over time, or does the rabbet hold up at least as well as in a pine box?
> Brian


I bought some cheap 1/8" thick aluminum strips from Lowes and stapled them to the inside 1/16" high so the frames rest on the aluminum edge.

If OP follows the DCoates Nuc plan he will leave the frame rest full thickness and cover the gap with a handle.


----------



## Swampsquash (Oct 25, 2014)

johno said:


> I have only used the Advantech supers for a year but see no problems with the frame rests, these are on the end grain of the Advantech. If the ends were cut in the other direction I suppose it would be possible to damage the frame rests.
> Johno


Johno,

How do you do the corners on your supers? Finger joints? Rabbet? Butt Joint? Spline Joint?

I've thought about advantech supers and deeps even, Since I already make my nucs out of it.


----------



## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

The joints on mine are 23/32" wide by 3/8" deep rabbets. You have to remember to cut the sides 19-3/16" long instead of 19-1/8". I think it is easier to do that than try to set the saw blade to 11/32" or technically 23/64".


----------



## Gordon Miller (Jun 2, 2014)

As a Lowe's employee, I am always on the look out for advantech sheets that have the tongue damages and i get these at a discount rate. I use them for my tops and bottoms and always glue a 3/4 pine strip on the edge to give longer life. The point of my post is damage tongue sheets are discounted and usually happy to get them out of inventory.


----------



## brushwoodnursery (Feb 10, 2012)

Gordon Miller said:


> As a Lowe's employee, I am always on the look out for advantech sheets that have the tongue damages and i get these at a discount rate. I use them for my tops and bottoms and always glue a 3/4 pine strip on the edge to give longer life. The point of my post is damage tongue sheets are discounted and usually happy to get them out of inventory.


Double Thumbs Up!!!


----------



## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

Swampsquash I rabbit the Advantech ends to whatever thickness of material I can find for the sides, then glue and staple. The one thing I do when stapling the sides is after stapling into the end grain I also staple from the side into the Advantech as I use only 1" staples.
Johno


----------



## Dave1958 (Mar 25, 2013)

brushwoodnursery said:


> Sadly, only 3/4 T&G at 84 as well. I'm about resigned to using it. Heavy and expensive compared to 1/2.


Im building 3 frame, from the d coats plan. Using the 3/4" advantec. I looked at all the barnyard bees videos on it. I wanted 3 frame in case I wanted to leave the queen in and shift it to a nuc. What surprises me the most is how heavy that are. I also wanted enterences that I could use my OAV for mites


----------

