# TBH ventilation problem



## Noahsoak (May 12, 2014)

Have two tbh, both with ventilation problem. Feed syrup late because there was very little feed source late summer last year. There was approx. 20+ bars of capped and uncapped honey. I didn't take anything at all, these were both new hives. I had drawn comb from a failed hive year before, the hive was entirely full of brood and honey, and they were backfilling as well. (Hive was 35" long). I didn't take anything out because there never seemed to be enough capped to pull. I split the hive and put the split (queen included) in a 48" hive. I have end entrance holes 2" below the flat lid top and one hive with vent holes on the opposite end, the other hive has vents on the end either side. I added rigid foam under the lid. 

The far end of the hive had weeping syrup from comb and wet sugar. Lots of dead bees inside at that end. Wet floor. 
Pretty much a mess. The bees are active, bringing in pollen. I took out the weepiest comb from the back, wiped the floor and inserted a follower board. I didn't open up the hive past that.

Pacific Northwest, willamette valley, Oregon. Wet, soggy, humid. Any opinions appreciated. One hive is still pretty strong, other succumbed.


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## Chuck Jachens (Feb 22, 2016)

You have condensation on the top bars. Put a batting of insulation between the top bars and the cover. That should make the side walls act as the condenser. Make sure the bottom drains. 

Insulate the top bars is urgent. I can provide more information if you want. Okay, I reread your post. There might be airflow under the rigid insulation if it doesn't lay flat. Since there are a lot of factors to consider that affect the atmosphere inside the hive and those factors interact, I highly recommend reading the following book:

“Constructive beekeeping” by Ed Clarke written in 1918? can be found at:
http://www.biobees.com/library/?dir=gen ... s_articles

This book talks about how ventilation, insulation, humidity, and temperature are interrelated inside the hive. Easy to read explanations of the thermodynamics on how the hive works as a condenser. You don't need to be an engineer to understand this book.


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## Apismellifera (Oct 12, 2014)

Hmph. Chuck - I think that link has been truncated and doesn't work... I really want to read that material. ;-)

Noah - it sounds as if your entrances are near the top and you have provided some method for ventilation... Do you have a window? I find that the window is a great condenser, even with some foam sandwiched in there to insulate it. My hives have a screened bottom over the solid bottom with a removable tray, so any moisture rolling down at least is not puddling... And I use the top entrance ala Bush on the theory that moisture can escape most easily that way. I am down in Coos right on the coast.

Maybe try a bit of screen board in place of a bar at the "end" of the hive? Something the bees can propolize up if it's too much airflow? Do you have a way to slide something absorbent into the bottom of the hive to sop stuff up temporarily? Swap it out every day or two? Even newspaper might soak up a bunch and get it out of there.

One of my new friends here with langstroths has a hot mess with her 3-4 langs, all the frames and interior covered with mold, bees absconded but some still coming back to try to rob out stores, I have no idea how that can be working for them this time of year. I'm taking her a clean top bar with some bars of comb and stores to see if we can get some bees back in there. Still way too early here to do much beekeeping.


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## Apismellifera (Oct 12, 2014)

http://www.biobees.com/library/gene..._articles/ConstructiveBeekeeping_EdClarke.pdf

Let's see if that link will work...


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## Chuck Jachens (Feb 22, 2016)

Thanks for new link


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## crabbcatjohn (May 5, 2013)

Rigid foam allows water to condense against it and or sweat. It will also not allow the wood to breathe. I always suggest using a burlap sack loosely filled with straw to insulate the insides of the hive. It breathes and helps wick up excess moisture. If it gets wet change it out. Basically your doing a quilt that can wrap around corners and fill open areas/gaps. Hope this helps. John


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## Roughcutapiaries (Mar 7, 2016)

I have found I only have moisture problems when I use insultation. Instead, I build a simple A-frame roof, put screened vent holes at the gables as one would a house. Between the 3/4-inch thick top bars (a wonderful insulator in themselves) and the dead air space between the bars and roof, I have no condensation and the bees survive the winter well.


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## Noahsoak (May 12, 2014)

This post is aged, but good news I am still swingin'

Thnx for that link! Maybe I'm not understanding, but regarding creating environment to allow dehydration of nectar, is the key condensing the workable area for the bees so the temp is closer to that of the brood area? I battling understanding how ventilation works in the tbh.

Still reading link.... My first hive failed, but tried again last year (2015) and I have an over wintered hive this year teaming with bees, eggs, larvae, brood. Seeing lots of drone capped brood as well.


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## Chuck Jachens (Feb 22, 2016)

During the dehydration of nectar , the bees fan the nectar and the moisture that evaporates rises. This pushes the moist air up then across the top bars towards the sides. As the moist air travels down the sides it cools and the moisture condenses on the sides. This works as long as the sides are a lower temperature than the air in the hive. During the heat of the day, this may not be happening but during the rest of time when the temp is less than 90 F is works well. This works even if there is minimum air exchange with outside air.

If your using a screen bottom board then it is a matter of the change in humidity of the air. The bees draw in new air and warm the air slightly and thus lower the humidity and the air can carry more moisture from the dehydration of nectar. Some of the moisture condenses on the side as the air cools and some is ventilated out through the screened bottom board.

The bees will actually use the condensed water within the hive for cooling and making bee bread. Saves them flying out and getting water.


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## AugustC (Aug 7, 2013)

Not a ventilation problem, an insulation problem as said above.


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