# no brood after MAQs



## orthoman (Feb 23, 2013)

Are you saying that the MAQS has apparently killed the queen in all 8 hives? If so, that would be unusual. 

Assuming there was brood present before you applied the MAQS, there should have been at least "older brood" remaining - maybe old larvae ready to cap and capped brood -still present. The MAQS are generally removed a week after they are put in the hive. There is something strange here and the bee math isn't working out.

P.S. I graduated for U of L -- loved it there.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

MAQS are hard on young brood sometimes and will shut the queen down, I would check back in another week and see if they started laying again.


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## tanksbees (Jun 16, 2014)

If you did MAQS 10 days ago, and have no brood whatsoever right now, it means your problems started long before you did MAQS.


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## Vectorjet (Feb 20, 2015)

I use MAQS from time to time and have had to wait up to a week for queens to start laying after treatments. That said, at this time of year, my hives have already began to shrink the broodnest and there is not much activity. To know if the queens survived the treatments you will most likely need to find the queens. As for treating, timing is very important and it appears you should have treated two months ago. Most of your winter bees have already been born and the mites have already done damage to them.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

>I followed the directions, placing 2 strip per hive (all 2 deeps)

Randy Oliver suggests using 1/2 a dose.


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## drmimiky (Apr 23, 2014)

There was brood present when I placed MAQs. The day I removed the strips, only saw very little old capped brood on a few middle frames. So I don't know what went wrong. Will plan to wait another week to see if the queen starts laying again. I am still terrible at finding the queen. The reason I went with the MAQs was that there was very little queen loss and very effective mite control. Due to work, travel and very hot weather here in Sept, I waited until daily temps were below 90 degrees. Thanks for input.


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## drmimiky (Apr 23, 2014)

Vectorjet said:


> I use MAQS from time to time and have had to wait up to a week for queens to start laying after treatments. That said, at this time of year, my hives have already began to shrink the broodnest and there is not much activity. To know if the queens survived the treatments you will most likely need to find the queens. As for treating, timing is very important and it appears you should have treated two months ago. Most of your winter bees have already been born and the mites have already done damage to them.


Thanks. I am still not good at finding the queen, will check again next week.


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## razoo (Jul 7, 2015)

drmimiky said:


> There was brood present when I placed MAQs. The day I removed the strips, only saw very little old capped brood on a few middle frames. So I don't know what went wrong. Will plan to wait another week to see if the queen starts laying again. I am still terrible at finding the queen. The reason I went with the MAQs was that there was very little queen loss and very effective mite control. Due to work, travel and very hot weather here in Sept, I waited until daily temps were below 90 degrees. Thanks for input.



I laud you for treating after trying the no treatment route. There are too many newbees who refuse to treat and end up losing hives instead. If treatment free doesn't work next year, a safer approach is OAV. There is the downside of having to buy the $100 wand, but after that it is cheap and soft on the bees, while very effective at killing mites.


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## Eyeman (Oct 23, 2016)

Hi
I lost 3 queens after using 2 MAQS strips for 1 week. In all 3 hives there were emergency queen cells.
It sounds like your queens may still be around but just shut down laying for a while.


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

Don't beat yourself for treating. With mite counts that high you had to treat, IMO.

I agree with others I think it more likely that your queens have simply paused due to the treatment. Whether they will resume this fall is an unknown. But as Eyeman above noted, the bees haven't made queen cells either so they probably know they have a viable queen (who just happens not to be laying at the moment.)

But that being said you need to think about stepping up to a year-round anti-mite program that isn't just reactive to high numbers. There are methods and times of the year when you can use each kind of chemical to its highest advantage and with the least downsides. MAQS is a good example: it has issues in hot weather, but it also has to some degree queen/brood issues any time. But late in the season queen and brood issues can pose much bigger problems because they can't be readily fixed like they can in say, May. My personal fave treatment, OAV, is somewhat useful in May, but far more useful in December, but it can't be used with honey supers on like MAQS can. My weather in early August (most high temps) sometimes permits use of MAQS, sometimes not. You can usually get a feel for that a few weeks ahead of time and be primed if you need to use some mite treatment. But in KY you may not have that opportunity so you'll have to study the mite surge patterns typical in your area and devise a local-condition-based strategy.

If you can think through the pattern of bee-population rises and falls, and the same thing for mites (you have to study their life-cycles closely to do this), your specific goals for your bees and your local conditions, you will work out a plan that doesn't just wait for trouble, but avoids it.

I'm not suggesting constantly treating; in general only two periods of treatment per year do just fine for me: fall and in December, both with OAV. Occasionally I need to treat in August, as well. I work my plan faithfully, but I also double-check all year long with constant monitoring (sticky boards every week of the year on every colony) and sugar rolling every few weeks (not every, or even most, colony each time, obviously) from May through October. Mites, PMS and DWV don't sneak up on me, because I see them coming first. 

I agonized a lot in my first year or two about treating (though I never tried to get away without treating, but it was always reactive and full of stress and anxiety for me.) Then I decided to think hard about when and where and how I could intervene the least number of times, with the most effective treatment, and then just did that. It reduced the stress and worry about mites to almost nil. What I do probably wouldn't be exactly right for you - but there is some combination that will work to keep the mites off your crisis list.

Use your worry and chagrin over this episode to fuel your analysis and decision making about what you're going to do about mite control from here on out. I think that loss of all those queens from MAQS is extremely unlikely. It was very hot last week (for the season), and somewhat so the week before - not hot enough to preclude MAQS here, in northern NY, but maybe hot enough in KY. I never use it when max temps are forecast for more than 82 F for the entire week, even though the package allows slightly higher temps.

Enj..


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## johng (Nov 24, 2009)

Put some feed on them it may get the queens to go ahead and lay some more brood. Maqs are hard on the brood and queens. It is nearly impossible to find cool enough temps here in the South early enough in the fall to be able to use them. Apigaurd is easier on the bees and can be used during the summer or early fall. I was at Dadant in High Springs last week and they were still selling some queens if you find you need a few.


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## bucksbees (May 19, 2015)

I did MAQS this year as well. I went 1/2 dose, on top of the suppers. After a week and removing the strips, did a quick inspection. It looks like the queens stopped laying for a few days, and the oil pan was a red sea of dead mites. I have full hive inspections planed for this week.

Plan on an OAV treatment for a few weeks this winter, should set me up nice for crimson clover at the start of March.


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## baybee (Jan 10, 2016)

bucksbees said:


> I did MAQS this year as well. I went 1/2 dose, on top of the suppers. After a week and removing the strips, did a quick inspection. It looks like the queens stopped laying for a few days, and the oil pan was a red sea of dead mites.


Bucksbees, while treating with half-dose of MAQS, did you have to open up the hives a bit for extra ventilation? Thanks, h.


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## bucksbees (May 19, 2015)

baybee said:


> Bucksbees, while treating with half-dose of MAQS, did you have to open up the hives a bit for extra ventilation? Thanks, h.


For ventilation, I have freeman style bottoms. I would open up the back section and open up the entrance the full amount. The reason I went for both openings full was while putting on the half dose of MAQS it was still strong to my nose. So I figured it would be for them as well. The grass and weeds at the front and back of the hives died as well. This includes two hives that are 4 deeps tall. After 3 days, I resealed/lowered the back door, and on the 5th day replaced the front entrance. 

Hope this helps. 

PS. At the local bee club people are afraid to use MAQS due to the chance of queen failure, I hope to show how I did it, so they can have other options.


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## NewBeeLady (May 20, 2014)

Due to the time of year, I would say your queens just shut down. It was coincidental to your treating for mites. Check the population, that should tell you if you have enough bees for winter, and if they have plenty of stored honey, then all is well. I would treat again in late Nov with Oxyalic acid. Too bad you have some with deformed wings, but they are your winter bees. Once you get the mites under control and the queen starts laying in the Spring you will have healthy bees. Keep up the treatments - those mites are a real threat to the bees.

Good luck,
New Bee Lady


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## drmimiky (Apr 23, 2014)

Thanks to all for the advice. I checked hives yesterday and found 4 queens and in 2 other hives noticed very small patch of larvae probably 4-7 days old. So all is not lost. The other two hives had lots of bees, even with some bees bringing in pollen, but did not find queens. Will now wait until spring and see if the hives make it thru the winter.


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## BadBeeKeeper (Jan 24, 2015)

bucksbees said:


> I did MAQS this year as well. I went 1/2 dose, on top of the suppers. After a week and removing the strips, did a quick inspection. It looks like the queens stopped laying for a few days, and the oil pan was a red sea of dead mites. I have full hive inspections planed for this week.





baybee said:


> Bucksbees, while treating with half-dose of MAQS, did you have to open up the hives a bit for extra ventilation? Thanks, h.


According to the manufacturer (instructions here: http://nodglobal.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/US-M-PL-003.pdf ), if you use only a single strip (1/2 dose), you need to repeat it every two to six weeks *throughout the season*. Obviously, this will be somewhat more expensive than just going with the full treatment.

I always make sure that there is one extra box on top of the two [deep] brood boxes, either another (empty) brood box or a medium super (with or without frames) to give them some room during the first two or three days of treatment, no extra ventilation (the idea is to create a 'gas chamber', extra ventilation defeats that), bearding is likely to occur anyway, especially if the temps are around 80 or higher. Like Enj. says, I try to avoid starting treatment if temps are forecast to be above 82, particularly for the first two or three days, and NEVER apply above 86.

I have never observed any queen or brood issues when following these instructions. (I can't say they have never occurred, but if they have, I haven't seen it.)


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