# Honey for Winter



## bobdurivage (Jun 14, 2017)

How many bars of honey should let my bees keep for Winter?


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## Richinbama (Jan 15, 2018)

At least one super, mabye more if desired. I hear 100 lbs is a good number to stand on. Mabye a bit much in warmer climates.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

A general rule of thumb that I have read is to count your seams of bees. Leave at least one full comb of stores per seam min and more then two combs per seam of bees is a waste.
I am only starting my third summer.
Cheers
gww


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Depends...
Without details - no good answer.

My bees hardly used 30 pounds this year per hive.
But these are stingy ferals and wintered in small clusters.


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## MichiganMike (Mar 25, 2014)

I have been weighing my colonies and for five years they have used between 35 and 40 lbs of stores from the end of October to mid April. I use 4 eight frame medium boxes and aim for a total weight of at least 130 lbs. There are always sufficient stores remaining to meet their spring requirements. Your question relates to a top bar hive so my response my not apply but I thought I would weigh in anyway. (Intended).


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## canadiyank (Apr 7, 2018)

I leave all of the bars in overwinter...I harvest modestly to "make room," if needed throughout the season, but otherwise let them have it and harvest in the spring.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

canadiyank said:


> I leave all of the bars in overwinter........and harvest in the spring.


+1 to this.

What is the rush to harvest if you are not commercial - no rush whatsoever.
If they die, you get an easy harvest anyway.
If they make through, harvest in spring as you see fit and no second guessing.


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## AvatarDad (Mar 31, 2016)

I leave 12 bars total (includes nest plus stores) and it is always plenty. Leave 14 or 15 if you are nervous. (12 was suggested in Les Crowder's book as well). Of course, it depends on your comb size.

Our big problem in the south is a too warm fall and winter. I've had them use quite a bit in late summer and early fall, when there are still a lot of drones and a big population. 

I like the harvest in the Spring idea. Do you have problems with crystallization?


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## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

I keep a hive on a scale, working on the 5th year of data. Thru the spring buildup stores consumption has been fairly consistent year over year, works out to 20lb every 30 days. Our bees typically start brooding mid February, and flows kick in mid to late April. They have consistently consumed a bit over 40lb of internal stores over that period before weight records turn to gains. This is in addition to pollen patties we add starting in February.

October thru February consumption has not been consistent year over year. The lowest year was an amazing 10 to 15lb, was hard to say for sure due to snow on the hive at times that made it look 100lb heavier than it really was. The year of most consumption was close to 40lb over that period, but it was not a consistent decline. Weight stays virtually constant for a few weeks, then we get a nice day where the bees can fly. We've seen it drop as much as 4 or 5lb in just a couple of hours when they get a flight day in January, and if there is snow on the ground, it all gets painted yellow by the bees.


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

for my full size topbar hives, 5-6 bars of capped stores for SE VA. I also add a sugar brick which they munch on first in Dec. I usually have leftover capped stores come spring


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

AvatarDad said:


> ..I like the harvest in the Spring idea. Do you have problems with crystallization?


In frames? A little may be; I could see few grains here and there.

After harvest? Well, if honey is raw and unfiltered, it will crystallize anyways. That's what I get and this is exactly what I want - raw and unfiltered.

I take little there and here in summer so we have honey on the table but leave the bulk untouched.
The main crop starts with the first dead-outs - in October/November and then through the winter into the spring (dead bees need no honey - makes for no-brainer harvest).


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## Corto (May 29, 2017)

GregV said:


> In frames? A little may be; I could see few grains here and there.
> 
> After harvest? Well, if honey is raw and unfiltered, it will crystallize anyways. That's what I get and this is exactly what I want - raw and unfiltered.
> 
> ...


I harvested a few weeks ago, and it is raw/unfiltered (simply through a fine mesh strainer) and I see no crystallization. I also don't have any crystallized from the small amount I took last fall?

Also I did not weigh, but I still cannot for the life of me tell that they ate any honey over the winter. I went in with 10-11 bars and came out with the same amount, all still nearly 100% full. I know that is impossible, but they seem to have been amazingly frugal.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Corto said:


> .... but they seem to have been amazingly frugal.


This is an indication of "northern bee" traits - late build-up and thus saving the stores into late spring.
Mine are the same way. 
I was surprised by people around me talking of splitting already.
Mine are not ready to split yet due to the late build-up.

Frugality and late build-up is good for the small scale beeks on Upper Midwest, I feel. 
Others may argue otherwise (you know - late build-up is bad for the large commercials, for example).

On the opposite side, "southern bee" starts brooding out in February and by April they often run out of the stores and must be fed in a bad year.
But better for the commercials - they are strong and ready to harvest the early flows (dandelion, black locust, etc).


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## Corto (May 29, 2017)

Good, I thought my bees were problematic after reading what others experienced. Finally, the past couple weeks their numbers have been building up, while my Lang friends who got packages a few weeks ago are already putting on more supers because of so much activity. 

They were only on 4 of 8 brood combs up until last week. Now they are across all, so things look good.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Corto said:


> Good, I thought my bees were problematic after reading what others experienced. Finally, the past couple weeks their numbers have been building up, while my Lang friends who got packages a few weeks ago are already putting on more supers because of so much activity.
> 
> They were only on 4 of 8 brood combs up until last week. Now they are across all, so things look good.


I think you have good bees; make sure to propagate these and keep the line going. At least make 1-2 splits.

Don't worry about your friends with packages.
Beekeeping is a long-term game about per-annual sustainability, not a single season boom-and-bust.


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## Cappy (May 10, 2018)

I agree with Meghan (canadiyank). Harvest in the spring. Less to go wrong. Deadouts remove honey immediately but otherwise leave it until temps permit bees to forage again. Maybe April. May for me.


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## msl (Sep 6, 2016)

Harvesting in the spring limits your mite control options and keeps the hive volume larger then it needs to be for winter
If your bees are healthily, and your in a good area you will often need to be harvesting several times a year to make room and prevent swarming. I have had swarms draw and plug out 32 bars and swarm in 2 mouths... I was waiting for the honey to be capped...... now I have a refract and found most of my uncaped is well with in limits, got to love a dry climate 
Marty Hardison suggested 15-16 bars total for the denver climate, its worked well for me, but it does depend on the bees.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

msl said:


> Harvesting in the spring limits your mite control options and keeps the hive volume larger then it needs to be for winter.....


Unless you are OFF chem treatments anyway; what is there left to limit?
Unless you use division/follower boards properly; how the hive volume be TOO much?
Unless you prevent bees from hitting the back wall, what it there about swarming?

Anyways, there are always specific problems to solve either harvesting in spring/summer/fall/winter.
To each his/her own.


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## Yunzow (Mar 16, 2017)

Hey, what do you mean by "seams"?



gww said:


> A general rule of thumb that I have read is to count your seams of bees. Leave at least one full comb of stores per seam min and more then two combs per seam of bees is a waste.
> I am only starting my third summer.
> Cheers
> gww


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

I realized that this is the top bar forum after I had posted. In a lang hive, seams would be when looking down between the frames top and bottom, the full of bees ones would be considered seams. It can be transferred to when you pull a comb and it has bees completely covering both sides, you could consider this the same as a seam.
Clear as mud, right?
Cheers
gww


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

For true deep horizontals (Layens/Ukrainian), for winter you only leave frames covered by the bees.
That's it.
Any frame not covered by the bees - you move it outside of the division board for spring use OR take to storage OR harvest for yourself.
All my hives went into the last winter on 5-6 bars max.

This is not a good formula for true TBH due to smaller/shallow combs, to be sure. Just for a context.


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## Yunzow (Mar 16, 2017)

I guess that sort of makes sense. Just trying to guesstimate how many bees there are.


gww said:


> I realized that this is the top bar forum after I had posted. In a lang hive, seams would be when looking down between the frames top and bottom, the full of bees ones would be considered seams. It can be transferred to when you pull a comb and it has bees completely covering both sides, you could consider this the same as a seam.
> Clear as mud, right?
> Cheers
> gww


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