# Most Mite Resistant



## chief (Apr 19, 2005)

I know there are a lot of opinions out there on this one but thats what I'm after so here goes. Which queen producer has the most mite resistant bee? I'm talking strictly genetic resistance here and not taking into account any particular management techniques.


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

At this point, Purvis probably has the most tolerant. But they are NOT immune!

I have 10 queens on order from Purvis and due to ship Wednesday July 5th. Its not much, but if I get them established, they will be ready to go through the winter. I already have a tolerant line of bees going and hope to cross them with the Purvis queens.

Fusion


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## NW IN Beekeeper (Jun 29, 2005)

[I already have a tolerant line of bees going...]

And this is the point, anyone can have mite tolerant bees. 

The question should be "Do you know to achieve mite tolerant bees in your apiary?"

If you don't I might suggest reading: 
http://gears.tucson.ars.ag.gov/publ/tolerant2.html 

It would also serve you well to do a web search on the topic. Many people have written about this topic and many good ideas are out there. Some may differ or even contradict others, so its your choice how to complish it. 

You seem to be hunting for a super mite-resistant bee suited for your washington climate. You aren't going to find it asking Florida folks on here if they think their mite resistant bees are the best.

Think like a bee... you'll feel less like a mule.

[ July 04, 2006, 12:08 AM: Message edited by: NW IN Beekeeper ]


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## magnet-man (Jul 10, 2004)

There is a Texas queen breeding family in AHB terratory that claim to produce mite resistant bees. I rather treat for mites than have bees hitting my veil.

There is a project in Europe where they have left Carniolan bees on an isolated island. They are going to let nature take its course and hope to get a resistant bee line.

[ July 04, 2006, 01:24 AM: Message edited by: magnet-man ]


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

NW IN, One big note re your reply. Inbreeding is a real Achilles heel for bees. The best way to avoid it is to bring in outside stock. Thats my reason for getting the Purvis queens. It would also be helpful if more beekeepers were maintaining tolerant bees so that we could swap queens occasionally.

Fusion


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## NW IN Beekeeper (Jun 29, 2005)

[Inbreeding is a real Achilles heel for bees.]

And I totally agree. 
One has to be willing to obtain bees from outside sources (whether it be from other breeders that have the same agenda or if you are willing to obtain swarms from outside your mating area). 

[It would also be helpful if more beekeepers were maintaining tolerant bees so that we could swap queens occasionally.]

This would help all of us from needing to test and re-test our ferals for resistance. 

I'm in total agreeance with you. 

I didn't mean to knock Pruvis, I just meant that any of us can do the same thing with a little effort.


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## Gene Weitzel (Dec 6, 2005)

magnet-man:

Without naming names, I am pretty sure the Texas queen breeding family to whom you refer are the same ones I bought 4 packages from this spring. All were extremely gentle. However, while I was there to pick them up the owner made the comment that "between the mites and the beetles (SHB) it was about to put him out of the bee business". All 4 packages from them died out after about 8-9 weeks. Only the two Russian packages I purchased elsewhere have managed to build up and survive. I have not seen any mites on my bees or in the SBB tray, but I am sure there are some there. The SHB in my area on the other hand have been absolutely relentless. Only the Russians and a feral swarm I recently hived seem to be able to keep them in check. I also have kept DE in the trays under the SBB for all the packages which traps and kills a lot of SHB, but this still did not prevent the collapse of the 4 packages.

In all fairness I should point out that I am a beginning bee keeper and I am sure that I bear some of the blame for the failure of the 4 packages. But I can't help but feel that if these bees had been more tolerant, my mistakes would not have been as detrimental to them. These bees and queens overall just did not seem to be as robust as the Russians or the ferals.

I guess my point is that it may be that given these new threats, we are going to have to work a little harder to find the bees that do well in our particular area, what works in one local may not necessarily be suited that well for another. After reading the USDA's study on the genetics of the bees in this country and seeing the authors' concern regarding the lack of genetic diversity in the commercial bee stock, I am hopeful that including some feral hives in my apiary will help. Even though I am supposedly in AHB territory as well (my county has been "colored in" since 2005), I have not seen any AHB type aggression or swarming charcteristics in the feral bees I have so far come in contact with. I hope my luck holds out.


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## naturebee (Dec 25, 2004)

--Which queen producer has the most mite resistant bee? I'm talking strictly genetic resistance,,,,

Sorry I cant help in suggesting a good producer of resistant bees. But over the past 5 years, I have been bringing in feral honeybees to assess and breed. I am keeping about 20 feral colonies, most of them unrelated ferals caught from the wild. Resistance to varroa is very good in selected ferals and I have never used treatments of any kind on these bees. 

By using simple assessment techniques, all colonies are now testing hygienic, and brood viability is above 98%, productivity is strong and winter survival is averaging 10% loss.
So, talking strictly genetics and with no account for any particular management techniques, the feral honeybee is the most resistant bee that I know of.


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## magnet-man (Jul 10, 2004)

> All 4 packages from them died out after about 8-9 weeks.


Did you see dead queens? They may have absconded which would leave some field bees in the nucs. Have you been in a dearth? Certain types of bees will abscond when there is a dearth.

Also small colonies tend to be gentle.


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## Gene Weitzel (Dec 6, 2005)

magnet-man:

>Did you see dead queens? They may have absconded which would leave some field bees in the nucs. Have you been in a dearth? Certain types of bees will abscond when there is a dearth.

We were still in the middle of the main flow when they failed. They started out very well and built up almost to the point of adding a second deep, then the qeens died on a couple of them, and I requeened them with queens from the same supplier. They seemed to recover from that for a time, then they all seemed to just dwindle down no matter what I did. I could see the queens in the small nucleus that was left, but once they were at this point, it seemed impossible for them to protect the comb from SHB. All my packages were started with a combination of small cell starter strips and foundationless frames. I managed these packages the same way I did the two Russian packages, but they all just dwindled down to nothing while the Russians thrived.

I am sure that if I had access to more recources like drawn comb, several existing strong hives, etc, they may have had a better chance.

[ July 05, 2006, 04:26 PM: Message edited by: Gene Weitzel ]


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## ClatsOre (Jul 27, 2004)

Dan & Judy Harvey
46492 HWY 112, Port Angeles, WA 98363
Phone: 360 928-3125 Toll Free: 866 204-3426
E-mail: [email protected]


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## chief (Apr 19, 2005)

ClatsOre,

Have you used the Dan & Judys bees personally? I have been looking for someone with experience with their stock to give me some feedback. If you did use them did you use the SMR or Russian queens? If I go with them I was planning on buying the SMR because they are supposedly less defensive. What was their temperament like? Are they really as resistant to varroa as they purport? 

Everyone else,

Before I started this post I was debating between Purvis Brothers, Olympic Wilderness Apiaries, and just continuing to work with my own feral stock. So far these have been the three suggested so I must have been onto something. Maybe I will try some of each!


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## Aspera (Aug 1, 2005)

Glenn Apiaries- SMR Queen bred to Russian drones. These queens have very resistant duaghters as well.


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## magnet-man (Jul 10, 2004)

I have one of Glenn Apiaries' Minnesota Hygienic and they are not mite resistant. Don't know about their SMR Queens though. I believe their queens are $100 now.


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## WG Bee Farm (Jan 29, 2005)

Chief,
I have been using Glenn Apiaries breeder queens since 2000 and I would suggest getting their 
Minnesota Hyg. inseminated with VSH(SMR) Drones.
I have used this breeder and a VSH(SMR) Carn. and have had good success with their daughters.
Might counts tend to stay low with some hives occasionally peaking and needing to be treated.
By replacing your breeders every year you will get the genetics out into your local area and it will come back to you.


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## tarheel bee (May 17, 2005)

I use Russian x SMR from Glenn Apiaries and am having good success as well.


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## naturebee (Dec 25, 2004)

Just wondering what a mite resistant bee is.

* Is it bees that manage to perform with a mite load?

* Or do mite resistant bees require a low mite count for them to perform?


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## Aspera (Aug 1, 2005)

Fusion, 
How are the Purvis queens at drawing comb? Do they use much propolis? What sort of treatmnets are you using?


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

Aspera,

This is the first time I've ordered Purvis queens so I have no experience with them. I am currently using queens that are descendants of Buckfast that I got from Canada about 5 years ago. They do NOT resemble the original buckfast so must have crossed with local survivor colonies. They are moderately tolerant of mites as demonstrated by their ability to survive the last 2 years without treatments. My colonies have a very narrow genetic base with over half of them descended from a single queen from 2 years ago. She was hotter than hoodoo but her colony peaked stronger than any colony I've ever had. She laid 20 frames of brood in the buildup for the 2004 season. I split her colony 5 ways in 2005 and managed to overwinter 4 of the splits with natural raised queens. I know from previous experience that inbreeding causes severe problems so the Purvis queens are intended to provide unrelated genetics for future queens I will raise from my tolerant queens.

Fusion


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## naturebee (Dec 25, 2004)

--I know from previous experience that inbreeding causes severe problems so the Purvis queens are intended to provide unrelated genetics for future queens,,,

Fusion, please describe your experience with inbreeding, how did this happen?


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## CWBees (May 11, 2006)

I purchased 3 Russian nucs from Bjorn Bees in PA. They are the offspring of a Glen Apiaries Breeder queen so hopefully should be mite resistant. I plan to overwinter 3 Russian hives and 2 Russian nucs and would like to see how they do. I have one Carniolan hive and have had a few swarms however so some of my queens might have mated with the Carniolan drones. I don't know how much this will effect them. I have heard Russians are a strain of Carniolans so it might not be that bad.


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

Joe, I had only a dozen colonies and used one of them to raise queens to re-queen all the rest. The next time I tried to raise queens, I got drastically reduced brood production. This was most likely because the queens I raised mated with drones directly descended from their own grandmother. I estimate the brood reduction was about 25 to 30 percent.

Fusion


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## naturebee (Dec 25, 2004)

Fusion, 
I found that if brood viability is low the colony will be more susceptible to disease and other stress factors. 
I had low brood viability few years back, couldnt pinpoint the cause. I was suspecting chewing out of brood for mites, but then inbreeding could have been a problem here with the lack of recovering ferals at the time. Although I it was acceptable at 85 to 90% and thought this might be normal for ferals, but the ferals from the woodlands that I was assessing at the time where showing brood viability near 100%. So this indicated that the viability was too low in my colonies. I went through last season and eliminated any colony with less than about 95% brood viability. This year, viability in most colonies is looking great and I and the queens I reared have good viability also.


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## Ishi (Sep 27, 2005)

I received 6 Purvis Queens last May 12 05 lost one (my mistake) on interdiction lost one to Yellow Jackets (cow knocked the top off and they could not defend it). The other 4 hives built up from 5 frames to 2 deeps and made a shallow of Star thistle each. They each went into winter with a deep super of honey for stores. In January and February 06 I pulled 2 frames of brood from 1 hive to boost some other hives 3 different times. This hive went to the Almonds on February 14 with 11 frames of bees and swarmed before I could get I it home and raise some Queens from her.

Just received 15 Purvis Queens that I installed in nucs July 3. Some have 3 sides if the frames with eggs and grubs as if tonight.


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## chief (Apr 19, 2005)

I went with Purvis Brothers. I gave them my order over the phone and they were very kind and courteous. He seems to be a real nice guy. He was willing to answer all my questions and I had a few. He ships on Monday and they all showed up live and in good health using priority mail. Now we will just have to wait and see how they do for me. So far thumbs up for the service end of his operation. I am expecting the bees should follow suit.


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## JBJ (Jan 27, 2005)

Chief, we are selecting for resistance and other desirable traits, plus we are based in the PNW so climatization may be a beneficial factor also. Check out our web site. We are currently working with Dr Steve Sheppard and others who have developed their own lines of surrivors. We just did an exchange with someone who claims to be working with Purvis and Kirk Webster also. We gave used no acaricide since 2000.
JBJ


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