# Laying them the long way



## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

Has anyone tried a KTBH with the comb boards laid long ways? In other words, get the bees to build on the length of the hive instead of across the width.

DarJones


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

The longer the comb is the more they want to curve it...


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

What would be the point of sloped sides if you did? And, how would you manually handle a 3' long comb?

Think about it. Do you think it is a good idea? Do you think the bees would use the whole length of the bar? I don't. I bet you would end up w/ combs of a length of about a third of the length of the bars all in one area together. Give it a try.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>What would be the point of sloped sides if you did?

They don't all have sloped sides...

>And, how would you manually handle a 3' long comb?

Exactly.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I thought sloped sides was how one kept comb from being attatched to the sides? If not, why aren't they called Coffin Hives? Seriously. Coffins have straight sides.


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## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

I've got a square sided TBH the same cross section as a deep. They've not attached much but handling even that size unsupported comb on a hot day is dicey.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I thought sloped sides was how one kept comb from being attatched to the sides?

Makes no difference.

> If not, why aren't they called Coffin Hives?

because they are long and flat...


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## oldfordguy (Dec 5, 2009)

I was under the impression that KTBH (Kenyan Top Bar Hive) was the one with sloped sides, and the TTBH (Tanzanian Top Bar Hive) had straight sides.


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## Adam Foster Collins (Nov 4, 2009)

That's right, oldfordguy.

Adam


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## windfall (Dec 8, 2010)

When I was building my Long Hive last winter I played with ways to let the combs run long ways, but using three "bays" for frames to avoid one 3' comb. The idea was to address the issue that some claim winter movement in long hives is difficult on the bees as the cluster has to ooze around each wall of comb rather than move right through the gaps.

It ended up getting a bit complicated on paper to maintain all bees space properly, so I scrapped the plan. But I am still curious about the winter movement question and might pay with it again when I have more experience and time.


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## Adam Foster Collins (Nov 4, 2009)

The long combs would be too unruly. And way too heavy.

Windfall, I don't get the sense that the bees have any trouble moving horizontally. This may be in part that the combs of your average ktbh really aren't very big. I have 18" bars, and the combs end up being about 14" wide at the top, and about 8 or 9" wide at the bottom. Then They're about 10" high. It's about exactly the same area as a medium - just a different shape.

Adam


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## windfall (Dec 8, 2010)

I appreciate the feed back.
I am way too new to have opinions myself on the matter, but asking around showed a split in the community (what a surprise) with a lot of folks arguing that horizontal movement is harder on the bees then vertical, at least in cold winter climates.

I think this idea has been around a long time, as I believe I have seen old reference to drilling though the combs in winter to create communication and movement corridors. I have also seen the all medium camp argue that the cluster has better communication and movement with the additional cross comb breaks....

It makes a certain amount of sense, but that obviously does not mean it correct


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>a lot of folks arguing that horizontal movement is harder on the bees then vertical, at least in cold winter climates.

And, in my experience, none of those people have ever had a horizontal hive...


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

The sloped sides make it easier to get fully built combs out intact because with straight sides you have to lift straight up until it is all the way out - same thing going back in. With sloped sides it is clear as soon as you start lifting it. I have a KTBH and also top bars in Langstroth hives.


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## doggonegardener (Dec 8, 2011)

Our local entomology club is putting a KTBH in a city park for education purposes. They built it so that the bars run "long ways". They put a sort of top bar divider in the middle of the hive running the traditional direction and attached it permanently. Then they ran their actual bars from this divider to the outside wall along the same axis as the long sides. Hope that makes sense. So each top bar was 1/2 the length of the hive. The thing that got me about this was the unused space. With this setup they have 6 bars (3 in each bay). That's the hole hive. Then the triangles of space along the long sides of the hive are left empty. Seems like a waste of space to me. They don't have bees in it until this coming spring. We'll see how the bees like the space.


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## Adam Foster Collins (Nov 4, 2009)

I'm not sure why your club would set the hive up that way.

If the bees have access to those empty triangular spaces along the sides, they will fill them with comb.
I don't know the dimensions of the hive, but If I divided mine in two, each bar would be about 2 feet long. In the arrangement you describe, the combs would be straight-sided as well. That means combs could weigh as much as 12 or 15 lbs each when filled with honey.

Sounds like a big mess waiting to happen...

Adam


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## doggonegardener (Dec 8, 2011)

I have only gone over to the park and looked once but the hive is not terribly deep. I just wonder about the utility of only 6-8 bars and all that empty space. I am a newbeek but that seems impracticle as well as seeming like an invitation to make a mess of the hive with cross comb. They are calling it an "observation hive". Don't know. Not involved. Not "my" club. It's the University's entomology club as far as I know. We'll see what comes of it. It's a pretty busy park so I think the hive will be at risk from the get go.


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## mmiller (Jun 17, 2010)

Adam Foster Collins said:


> I'm not sure why your club would set the hive up that way.
> 
> Sounds like a big mess waiting to happen...
> 
> Adam


I was thinking the same thing.

Mike


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## Box (Jul 30, 2010)

Take a look at this ,its in german, but pictures speaks a thousends words
the first shows the concept the other one the harvest 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXQu3XEv390
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=n9ITefVZAIA


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## Adam Foster Collins (Nov 4, 2009)

Box,

Interesting videos. It appears that the hive has a division, behind which the honey storage combs go. And the combs are not removed until harvest. Cool to see the design.

Thanks,

Adam.


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