# "Ripe" Queen Cell



## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

What is a "ripe" queen cell?

Im not joking







Im looking for a good description that defines "ripe".

thanx


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

IMO, one that is 14 days old and ready to be put in a mating nuc. In other words, one ready to be picked. But they might just mean one that is capped.


----------



## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

I'd agree with Michael- ripe is "ready to pick".

I was watching some of those german videos listed in the Diseases and Pests forum the other day- there is a series on traditional skep beekeeping which are absolutely facinating. A couple of them dealt with swarming. These beekeepers, rather than taking steps to prevent swarming, actually encourage it. After the primary swarming season passes during which they attempt to capture the primary swarms in mesh bags as they are leaving the skeps, they contend with the "cast" after-swarms. These they let fly, then collect them after they settle on tree branches or wherever. Then they go through the skeps one at a time, cutting out swarm cells and repopulating them with bees from the cast swarms which they've collected in large baskets. Those skeps that appear to be queenless are given a young virgin which they search for and pick out of the basket which contains bees from many swarms, and many virgins. If they can't find a virgin, the beekeeper selected a swarm cell from those they'd collected, tore off the end, and released the queen into the skep.

Now *that* is a ripe queen cell.

They also filled a number of small baby mating nucs and put queen cells in them. These were subsequently used to requeen those skeps that turned out queenless later on. Facinating videos. I recommend you watch them if you haven't already.

George-


----------



## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

as the time approachs for the queen to emerge the workers begin chewing and sharpening the end of the queen cell. this is the sign of a ripe queen cell.


----------



## Robert Hawkins (May 27, 2005)

<the beekeeper selected a swarm cell from those they'd collected, tore off the end, and released the queen>

Now, THAT's a real beekeeper. Anyone here ever do that? What self-confidence. What knowledge. That's my next goal. I want to know what's going on to that extent. Suppose that means I need to try it. Hey, they're MY bees. If I wanna, I can. No I can't. Anyone?

Hawk


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I've had queens emergae from their cells right on my hand and in my shirt pocket. You have to watch those suckers. If you don't know when they are supposed to emerge, you can have a bunch of them emerge when you aren't ready.

I knew a guy who had ordered queen cells to make nucs with. When he got them, for some reason, he didn't think that they were good, so he tore them open too early and found out that they just weren't ready to emerge. They were fine, until he opened them. I don't know how many he opened before he stopped.

So, have a good idea when your queens are supposed to emerge and then let them. If you are curious if there is a queen in there, then "candle" some.


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>the beekeeper selected a swarm cell from those they'd collected, tore off the end, and released the queen into the skep.

He probably saw the queen was starting to cut the end open. It's like a chick piping where they have just poked a hole in the shell. Not that I recommend tearing it open, but you can tell when they are already doing it. Just before they emerge it will be brown and papery on the end where the workers have removed the wax down to the cocoon but this can happen as much as two days before.


----------



## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

I was just reading about removing the queen BEFORE she emerges, marking her w/ paint or a NUMBER, then placing her back into the cell to emerge naturally.

Anyone "been there, done that"?


----------



## Hook (Jun 2, 2002)

I never heard of that, and would not reccommend it, unless you have quuens to lose. I have torn them open when I thought they should have emerged with the rest, only to find it would have emerged in a few hours. Some lived, most died. I usually candle the cells in a crude fashion, and if there is movement, you probably would not be at risk as much if you tore the cell open. But at that point, it would be no more beneficial to mark then as if it was to emerge. (remember I use an incubator).

Further, I usually do not mark any queen, until she is mated, and laying eggs. Everybody has there own way of doing things.


----------



## NW IN Beekeeper (Jun 29, 2005)

I've opened a "late" queen cell and found a live queen whos legs had yet to cure. It took about a day for the legs to harden and for her to gain her balance. I think poor temperature regulation during the rearing process made her cell a little slower than others in the batch. 


I would "not recommend" prematurely opening the cell (I was fighting against a lagging hatch timeline).

DaveW-
[my arguements are about the book, not you or your personal opinions]
As for opening a cell and marking a queen and replacing her, I think someone was looking for "new/contraversal substance" to add to their book. I think most quality beekeepers would classify this as cruel and unusual treatment. Most commerical outfits have little enough time to properly requeen let alone "re-package" an emerging queen. 

Several places have referenced waiting until a queen is mated and laying before marking. This assures that the paint does not inadvertantly adhere to the wings and prevent or hinder the mating flight. I know that my hands are not always so steady, so I subscribe to this same logic. 

Happy Rearing - Hope Everyone Yields Great Queens.

Jeff


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

It's nice to believe they will emerge in 16 days and you will usually be right. But cool weather seems to deleay that as much as a day or two and hot weather can shorten it by as much as a day or two. I try to leave them until at least 18 days before I figure they're not going to emerge.


----------



## Robert Brenchley (Apr 23, 2000)

I've tried opening ripe cells a couple of times; the queens have looked OK, but disppeared in a short time. One seemed to be laying satisfactorily, but the hive died out over winter. I get better success by dropping cells into queenright colonies.


----------



## GaSteve (Apr 28, 2004)

>then "candle" some

How do you do that -- with something like a pocket Mag-lite?


----------



## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

ga steve ask:
How do you do that -- with something like a pocket Mag-lite? 

tecumseh replies:
with either a candle or a small light bulb. much like folks use to do on chicken eggs for the same purpose.


----------



## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

Sometimes what we read may not be true,
or is it???

"Shortly before emergence from her cell, a queen can be examined, marked or numbered. By making a partial incision around the lower part of a 10-day old cell, the cell can be tipped away taking the developed queen w/ it, and the queen can be dropped into the palm of the hand. She can be reinserted into queen cell, and cell body returned to its normal position and stuck firmly to the lower part of the cell. Bees will repair the cut and queen will emerge normally" [Ref 17, p85].

17 - QUEEN REARING & BEE BREEDING, Harry H. Laidlaw & Robert E. Page, 1997


----------



## Dick Allen (Sep 4, 2004)

Fascinating, Dave. I take a lot of what I read over the internet with a grain of salt and sometimes think Yeah, Sure, You Bet.....
I suppose it could be done at 10 days since the queen is now into her pupal stage of development. Thanks for the reference. 
Not sure that I'll ever end up trying that, though.


----------



## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

Dick Allen . . .

Please check the reference.

I find sometimes the internet the "best source"









But why would something "in print" be wrong????


----------



## Dick Allen (Sep 4, 2004)

>Please check the reference.
Dave W., I dont have that book of Laidlaws. Ive got his earlier Contemporary Queen Rearing. 

Im not sure if you believe that I dont believe you or if you dont believe that I believe you. I do believe you and what you wrote. 

>But why would something "in print" be wrong???? 

Who says its wrong? I dont doubt what Laidlaw wrote about removing a queen after it has begun its pupal stage and putting it back into its cell, and it was fascinating to me.

[ February 22, 2006, 11:10 PM: Message edited by: Dick Allen ]


----------



## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

Dick Allen . . .

I believe you believe. I dont believe I ever questioned that. If you believe or dont believe is not the point I believe I was making. Hope you believe me?









Your good! (I believe)


----------



## RAlex (Aug 18, 2001)

Isnt it possible to put ripe queen cells into queen cages and have them hatch in the cage that is set into a special frame to hold a number of such cages ? The frame is held in a colony that is queenless and the bees feed the queens. Also there only so long that queens can be banked this way before they get old enough so that they dont make thier mating flight


----------



## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

>Isnt it possible to put ripe queen cells into queen cages and have them hatch in the cage (snip)

I believe that the bees have to remove some of the end off the queen cell the last day or two before she hatches. The amount of material that they remove makes it possibel for her to get out on her own.


----------



## RAlex (Aug 18, 2001)

Thanks Bill ...my brother-in-law discussed it and thought it might be possible to bank a few queens this way ...Rick


----------



## Antero (Jan 9, 2005)

RAlex Have a look at this video of queen rearing. It shows the whole process (without workers to help the queen)

http://mkat.iwf.de/mms/metafiles/02000018010220000000_lo.asx

Terry


----------



## RAlex (Aug 18, 2001)

Antero... That is an excellent clip from what I have read of it. Last nite I downloaded part of it and watched that . The problem is that my computer connection is dial-up and can only get 28,8 kbs after a little over three hours I watched about 17 minutes of it . Tomorrow I will go to my daughters house ( she has high speed connection) and watch the rest of it ....Thank You ! Rick Alexander


----------



## Antero (Jan 9, 2005)

Rick Alexander 


http://www.beesource.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000354;p=1

Terry


----------

