# Natural Beekeeping



## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

Three new photos partially show, why my bees are always healthy:
http://www.beebehavior.com/natural_beekeeping.php

Boris


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## riverrat (Jun 3, 2006)

Good job. What is your winter losses. Being all natural doesnt nessasarily mean healthy bees. I dont treat my hives but I expect the weaker bees to die off.


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## hummingberd (Aug 26, 2006)

Thanks Boris. Great "blog"


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

Moderator,

Please correct my misprint in the Topic name.
It must be "Natural Beekeeping"

Thank you in advance.

Boris


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## Bud Dingler (Feb 8, 2008)

you make any money doing it that way?


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## mwjohnson (Nov 19, 2004)

Hi Borris,
Let me say that I've enjoyed many of your past post and your web site. Very nice .

I see your using the word "Organic" on your site.

That brings some questions to mind...
Is your operation "certified organic", by NOFA or QAI or anybody?
Do you label, and sell, any honey?

Many of us would like to be able to use that distinction in marketing our product, but feel that while we may not be using any chemicals, or chemicals treatments that could be called organic, it would be misleading, if not completely unethical to use the word in the description of our product and our management style.

Interested in your thoughts
Thanks, Mark


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

riverrat said:


> ...What is your winter losses. Being all natural doesnt nessasarily mean healthy bees...


Riverrat,
Usually, winter losses of my bee yard are below normal: 200-300 bees/ per hive body.

Bud Dingler and mwjohnson, 
The last picture from this link is the answer for your question:
http://www.beebehavior.com/bee's_life_pictures.php
In addition, I did not use "certified organic" labels. Certification will cost me alot of money.

Boris


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## Bud Dingler (Feb 8, 2008)

in fact it may be illegal in some states to use the term organic on a label without being certified organic. 

the reality is there is so little raw honey on the market from local beekeepers that organic offers no real economic distinction.


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## Sasha (Feb 22, 2005)

Honestly , I don't see from your pictures why your bees are healthy.


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## shawnwri (Jul 31, 2006)

The term "organic" is regulated by the feds. Here is a link http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/
5th one down under Browse by Subject.


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

Sasha said:


> Honestly , I don't see from your pictures why your bees are healthy.


Sasha,

There is my comment also (next to the photo): "For the Spring/Autumn feeding I use ONLY natural honey and pollen!" 

Boris


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## Beltane (Jan 28, 2008)

Wow! I love your site. Thanks for posting.


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

Today I finished Spring inspection of my hives and added new photos (dated April 09, 2008): http://www.beebehavior.com/natural_beekeeping.php

Boris


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

Boris said:


> Sasha,
> 
> There is my comment also (next to the photo): "For the Spring/Autumn feeding I use ONLY natural honey and pollen!"
> 
> Boris


What other kinds of honey and pollen are there?


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

Joseph Clemens said:


> What other kinds of honey and pollen are there?


“Honey” from syrups or ASCORBATE HONEY: http://www.nutri.com/wn/ah.html


Nevertheless, I added comments: “…instead of using high fructose corn or sugar syrups and other supplemental feeding”

Boris


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## talkingamoeba (Feb 15, 2008)

Boris said:


> Riverrat,
> 
> Bud Dingler and mwjohnson,
> The last picture from this link is the answer for your question:
> ...


No offense meant but 4 boxes of honey is not the same as 4 boxes of fifties


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## Shapleigh's Bees (Mar 8, 2008)

*The Feds*



shawnwri said:


> The term "organic" is regulated by the feds. Here is a link http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/
> 5th one down under Browse by Subject.





The Feds said:


> Except for operations whose gross income from
> organic sales totals $5,000 or less, farm and processing
> operations that grow and process organic agricultural
> products must be certifi ed by USDA-accredited
> certifying agents.


Most hobbyists need not fear the feds on this. I think it's crazy they took a word out of the English language and regulated the heck out of it.


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

talkingamoeba said:


> No offense meant but 4 boxes of honey is not the same as 4 boxes of fifties


1. Where did you see 4 boxes?
2. Please read picture info more carefully: “Part (!) of the crop - July 22, 2007:”

Boris


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

One more tip for the Natural Beekeepers:

“…shaded apiary conditions caused colonies to have more mites. Overall, keeping entire apiaries of mite resistant honey bees in direct sun resulted in colonies having the fewest mites.
…Exposure to sunlight retarded mite population growth while prolonged shade accelerated it, causing the death of many of the Italian colonies.” USDA ARS
http://www.ars.usda.gov/research/publications/publications.htm?seq_no_115=154678

My Bee Yard is under Sunlight from 7:30 a.m. to 4 p.m. (approximately)

Boris


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## LSPender (Nov 16, 2004)

*? re sunflower oil*

How are you using the sunflower oil?

Thanks, Larry


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

LSPender said:


> How are you using the sunflower oil?
> Thanks, Larry


Larry,

You have to apply two coats of sunflower oil for your new hive bodies (especially for bottom body) like a regular paint. 
You can use brush or small piece of cloth.

Boris


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

I've added my new section: "1. The source of nectar and location of the apiary"
http://www.beebehavior.com/natural_beekeeping.php

Boris


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

Package time has begun... Useful advice for your hive inspection.

You should examine your bee hives only in case of obvious necessity. Before you plan to disturb your bees, think about the appropriateness of such a step. Remember, that during the honey flow season, each opening of the hive leads to significant losses of honey.
Also, every time you inspect your hive there is a chance that you accidentally will damage or kill the queen.

Therefore, try to find answers to your concerns based on indirect observation and outside attributes. For example, you have just settled a new colony into a hive or placed a new queen into an existing colony and want to know whether she is alive and whether she started laying eggs. Instead of disturbing your bees, look carefully at workers' behavior. If the worker bees are actively bringing pollen to the hive, it's a 99.9 percent guarantee that everything is okay with the queen.

Boris


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## hsbcapt (Mar 31, 2008)

I thought the definition of organic means that it was once or is living!!!


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

hsbcapt said:


> I thought the definition of organic means that it was once or is living!!!


NOSB Apiculture Task Force Report. Organic Apiculture Standards. October 16, 2001 
is here: http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/getfile?dDocName=STELPRDC5058474

Boris


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

Boris:

I know you are getting a lot of flak here. I wanted to say thank you for being on the "natural" path versus the chemical treadmill. 

I just hives 8 packages on small cell. I hope this will help with fighting varroa.


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## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

Hey Boris, not to give you "flak" or anything like that, but you are
wrong on the one bit of practical advice you offered.

Completely wrong.

> "_If the worker bees are actively bringing pollen to the hive, 
_>_ it's a 99.9 percent guarantee that everything is okay with the queen._"

Queenless hives will consistently *stuff* combs with pollen.
So much pollen, one often ends up tossing those combs in the melter,
just to salvage the frame by recycling it.

So, bringing in pollen may mean many things, but it is a less-than reliable
indicator of a laying queen. Ask around, anyone with even a few years
of expereince will confirm that what I say is true.


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## Kevin M (Aug 11, 2006)

Boris, are you applying the sunflower oil inside or outside of your boxes..? I see your hives are painted different colors in the pics you shared, are you painting hives after applying sunflower oil on extrior...? I agree with chef issac, i enjoy reading about your natural path to beekeeping....


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

Jim Fischer said:


> Queenless hives will consistently *stuff* combs with pollen..


Jim, 

Once again, please read my statements more carefully: "Package time has begun... For example, you have just settled a new colony into a hive or placed a new queen into an existing colony and want to know whether she is alive and whether she started laying eggs."
New "Queenless hives " is a nonsense!

Boris


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

Kevin M said:


> Boris, are you applying the sunflower oil inside or outside of your boxes..?


For inside ONLY!

Boris


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## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

> For example, you have just settled a new colony into a hive or placed a new queen into an existing colony and want to know whether she is alive and whether she started laying eggs. Instead of disturbing your bees, look carefully at workers' behavior. If the worker bees are actively bringing pollen to the hive, it's a 99.9 percent guarantee that everything is okay with the queen. -Boris


I have had three replacement queens that were killed or died shortly after I introduced them to existing colonies (less than one week), yet the workers continued to pack the hives in those instances with pollen.

I've also had a queen disappear after installing a package, and the workers, one week later, were busy filling every available cell with pollen and nectar.

I'll confess that I don't have a tremendous amount of experience installing packages, or putting in replacement queens, but the experiences that I have had contradict your statement.


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

Kieck said:


> ... but the experiences that I have had contradict your statement...


"...I've also had a queen disappear after installing a package, and the workers, one week later, were busy filling every available cell with pollen and nectar. Kieck" 

Such situation is possible only if new eggs were left by your queen. And your bees were ready to build new queen cells. If you a Natural beekeeper - you don’t have to disturb your bees in this situation.


Boris


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## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

> Such situation is possible only if new eggs were left by your queen. And your bees were ready to build new queen cells. -Boris


Don't be so emphatic and absolute with your statements, Boris. Actually, the queen left no eggs. No brood developed in that hive, and no new queen cells appeared. All of the frames were completely filled with pollen and/or nectar within two weeks of installing the package.

I swapped frames around with another hive to spread out the pollen/nectar and provide brood for the queenless hive from the package.


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

Kieck said:


> Actually, the queen left no eggs. No brood developed in that hive, and no new queen cells appeared. All of the frames were completely filled with pollen and/or nectar within two weeks of installing the package.


1. Could you show me any copy of your record from the bee yard journal as a proof of your statement.

2. I’m taking about normal (natural) bee behavior, but I do not know anything about your experience. Could you show me please some photos similar to ##1,2,3,4,5 from this link:
http://www.beebehavior.com/natural_beekeeping.php

Boris


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## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

> 1. Could you show me any copy of your record from the bee yard journal as a proof of your statement. -Boris


I'll have to dig it out. This happened three or four years ago. But I could get you a copy of the records. Do you want a photocopy/scan, or a typed copy of the records?

Out of curiosity, though, why should I have to "prove" my statement? It happened. I know it happened. I'm relating it to avoid having new beekeepers rely on blunt statements that may be misleading. You cited a number (99.9 percent): can you provide copies of your data to back up your statement, please?



> I’m taking about normal (natural) bee behavior and I do not know about your experience. -Boris


Again, it happened. I don't know how "natural" anything that happens in a Langstroth hive is. Similarly, I don't know how "natural" anything that an "unnatural" species (_Apis mellifera_) in North America does might be.

The problem is, if new beekeepers read your absolute statement ([paraphrasing here] "Bees that are hauling in pollen after the introduction of a new queen are queenright"), those beekeepers may be lulled into a false sense of security that all is well with their hives, when those hives might be queenless.

Being a beekeeper, to me, means being willing to open up hives and check the bees. If a person is unwilling to do that, why bother installing bees in moveable-frame equipment in the first place?


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## hummingberd (Aug 26, 2006)

Boris I really like your site, but I have to say Kieck is correct. On April 10, I hived a package. The queen was released 5 days later. Five days after that, they were queen less. No eggs, no larvae, no brood and they were filling the brood nest with the sugar syrup I was feeding them (because I didn't have any honey) Everything on the outside was "normal" looking. I never would have known... A very experienced beekeeper came over to help me through the process, so I had back up confirmation that I was queen less. 

Does the sunflower oil ever get rancid? 

Thanks


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

hummingberd said:


> ...A very experienced beekeeper came over to help me through the process, so I had back up confirmation that I was queen less...
> Thanks


Hummingberd, 

1. Please look again for my statement: "If the worker bees are actively bringing pollen to the hive, it's a 99.9 percent guarantee that everything is okay with the queen."

The Biology of the Honey bees (Apis mellifera) explains my statement: worker bees collect the pollen and then mix it with some nectar. Such form of mixture (called beebread) is a protein-rich food used to feed the larvae (immature bees).

Therefore, a queen less situation for the new hive (colony), when "worker bees are actively (!!!) bringing pollen (the main part of my statement)" is a nonsense for the Natural beekeeping. 
Almost all beekeepers now use immense amounts of chemicals to fight mites and other diseases. In addition, they feed their colonies with syrups and other supplements. My bee colonies are healthy because I have been practicing only natural beekeeping. Therefore, behavior of my bees is also NATURAL. 

2. "Does the sunflower oil ever get rancid?" - No, if sunflower oil is 100% pure.

Boris


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

Boris said:


> Usually, winter losses of my bee yard are below normal: 200-300 bees/ per hive body.
> 
> Boris


Now that is a very telling statement. If I was to believe that you could know that for fact, I would probably believe anything.

BTW, I see queenless hives bringing in pollen too, there are no absolutes in beekeeping.


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## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

> The Biology of the Honey bees (Apis mellifera) explains my statement: worker bees collect the pollen and then mix it with some nectar. Such form of mixture (called beebread) is a protein-rich food used to feed the larvae (immature bees). -Boris


While the central portion of this statement is true, the context makes this statement misleading.

Bees do, in fact, collect pollen to feed to developing larvae.

And they do mix the pollen with nectar/honey.

The problem with the statement and the assumptions you draw from the statement, Boris, lies in the timing.

Bees do not only collect pollen when they are actively rearing brood. And bees do not use all collected pollen almost immediately. If you don't already know that, I'm sure I have some photos of frames of pollen that my bees have stored. Virtually every hive I've had has stored pollen in frames. That pollen is not immediately mixed and fed to larvae.

So, with the stored pollen, hives can be rearing brood successfully without actively foraging for pollen, and all can be right with those hives. And, hives can be storing pollen simply because the workers collect pollen and return to the hive with it. If they only collected what they needed at the moment for rearing brood, the surplus that I've seen in most hives would never exist.


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## Hanover Honey (Mar 26, 2008)

*Rancid*

Boris, sunflower oil may not go rancid but not because it is 100% pure. Meat is 100% pure but it will go rancid even if you keep it in the fridge.

You statement are often strong and absolute but not always correct.


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

BULLSEYE BILL said:


> ... there are no absolutes in beekeeping.


I agree with this part of your statement, therefore I wrote " a 99.9 percent guarantee "

And again - my statement for the Natural beekeeping approach. I do not have problems
similar to CCD - this is unnatural behavior of the bees, as a response for the unnatural beekeeping practice.

Boris


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

Hanover Honey said:


> Meat is 100% pure but it will go rancid even if you keep it in the fridge.


My statement is for specific use ONLY (for the picture #6)- not in general: "keep it in the frige" and so on.

Boris


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## Hanover Honey (Mar 26, 2008)

Boris said:


> My statement is for specific use ONLY (for the picture #6)- not in general: "keep it in the frige" and so on.
> 
> Boris


What?

My comment was about pure vs. rancid. One does not have anything to do with the other. Your coment that sunflower oil does not get rancid BECAUSE it is pure is wrong!


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## hummingberd (Aug 26, 2006)

Boris said:


> Hummingberd,
> The Biology of the Honey bees (Apis mellifera) explains my statement: worker bees collect the pollen and then mix it with some nectar. Such form of mixture (called beebread) is a protein-rich food used to feed the larvae (immature bees).
> 
> Boris


Sorry Boris. I forgot to add that they were bringing in pollen. I was thinking it but forgot to type it... I don't use chemicals, and never have. I lean toward the natural beekeeping practices. I did have to feed sugar syrup, because my colony came as a package, but I was able to use organic sugar. Does that count?  I gave them the frames left over from the previous colony, but it wasn't enough to sustain them through till the first honey flow.


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

hummingberd said:


> I did have to feed sugar syrup, because my colony came as a package, but I was able to use organic sugar. Does that count?


Hummingberd,

1. As you can see (picture #1 from this link: http://www.beebehavior.com/packaged_bees.php ) even now I have a lot of natural honey for my new russian colonies. 
2. Did you understand my response for your question about sunflower oil? I hope you asked me specifically (as a paint for the hive body), not in general.

P.S. I prefer sunflower oil from Argentina:
http://www.transnationalfoods.com/oils_specs.html
You can store this oil for many years without any problems and without freezer.

Boris


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## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

> New "Queenless hives " is a nonsense!

No, Boris... not nonsense at all.
It is a statistical certainty.

There is a certain percentage of new packages or splits
that will reject their queen for no apparent reason at all.
Most in the first week or two.

Maybe she gets wounded in the act of releasing her, I dunno.

Maybe she's a dud, and the bees figure it out. Maybe she was
not properly mated. Who knows?

But they will try to supersede her and fail, or she will die of her 
wounds, or whatever, but the colony will go queenless.

But you just can't see this kind of stuff in a normal lifetime if you
only have a few hives. When you have hundreds or thousands,
and get roped into helping buddies who also have hundreds or
thousands, you quickly gain experience that would equal several
lifetimes of keeping any number of hives under 50.

There are a few things that can be stated as flat statements,
but the majority of things one might say are most often instantly
"refuted" by someone who saw an exception to the rule of thumb.
This is why a good grounding in basic bee biology and behavior
is so important, as it allows one to understand the "usual" and
contrast it with the "unusual".

What was it Pooh said?
"_*You* *never can tell with bees*_"


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## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

> I agree with this part of your statement, therefore I wrote " a 99.9 percent guarantee " -Boris


The problem here is that you keep repeating that "99.9 percent" figure. From my experiences, I highly doubt that such certainty exists. The posts of others (Jim Fischer, hummingberd, BULLSEYE BILL) seem to confirm my deductions.

In fact, I suspect that workers actively bringing in pollen is less about the colony being queenright than it is about a lack of pollen stores in the hive and an availability of pollen in their foraging area. In other words, queenless bees without pollen stores -- whether from a package, or if a new queen has just been introduced -- are likely to be actively gathering pollen.



> And again - my statement for the Natural beekeeping approach. I do not have problems
> similar to CCD - this is unnatural behavior of the bees, as a response for the unnatural beekeeping practice -Boris


What part of keeping an alien species (_Apis mellifera_) to North America in artificial constructs (Langstroth hives) is "natural?" I dunno, the whole "natural beekeeping" thing seems like an oxymoron to me. Maybe that's just me.

As far as comments about "natural beekeeping" and CCD, I don't know what causes CCD. If it is largely a nutritional and stress issue, then cultural practices might have an influence on whether or not a colony contracts CCD. If CCD is caused by a pathogen, "natural" beekeepers are likely to be hit just as often and just as hard as "unnatural" beekeepers with CCD.

As I understand it, some of the beekeepers who were very outspoken about CCD being caused by "poor management" last year were hit pretty hard by CCD or something very similar this year.


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

Kieck said:


> From my experiences...


Could you show me please some photos related to your "...experiences..." ?

Boris


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## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

Photos of what, Boris? Photos of bees collecting pollen? Photos of frames with pollen in the frames? What do such photos demonstrate? If I take a photo of a frame of bees (no queen visible), would you be able to tell if the hive was queenright or queenless from the picture of the frame?

If you could make such deductions, you have information that I'd like to hear. I suspect most beekeepers would. With such canny observations, beekeepers would never need to bother looking for queens or eggs or brood. 

And, again, Boris, you're the one making the claim that active pollen gathering is a "99.9 percent guarantee" of a queenright colony. Could you show me your data, please?


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

Kieck said:


> Photos of what, Boris?


Please show me:
1. your bee yard photos
2. your hive bodies - inside condition
3. Spring and Autumn feeding 

Boris


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

Jim Fischer said:


> > New "Queenless hives " is a nonsense!
> No, Boris... not nonsense at all.


Jim, It is a nonsense, because I stated: "If the worker bees are actively bringing pollen to the hive, it's a 99.9 percent guarantee that everything is okay with the queen. The Biology of the Honey bees (Apis mellifera) explains my statement: worker bees collect the pollen and then mix it with some nectar. Such form of mixture (called beebread) is a protein-rich food used to feed the larvae (immature bees).

For the natural beekeeping practices (!!!)a new queenless hive is a nonsense, when "worker bees are actively (!!!) bringing pollen to the hive". Especially for the spring time.

My topic is not about Queenless hive in general and not about "chemical bandits" (I hope you remember this definition). Please try to understand this.


Boris


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

Am I really reading this? 

Natural beekeeping, per various beesource users, has become 
so utterly meaningless that it hardly deserves a few words about it.
But don't let me discourage those whom have more then a few words
to say!


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## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

> Please show me:
> 1. your bee yard photos -Boris


Why? What difference does it make how my yards look? They generally look pretty similar, although they looked different when I lived in Kansas than they do here in South Dakota.

Honestly, I don't have photos of most of my yards. I know I "should," but I rarely document my inspections in such great detail that I would have photos of each hive body from each inspection. So, that goes for "inside condition" of hive bodies, too. I'll dig up a few that I do have, but I rarely take general photos of the insides of the hives.

Most of the photos that I have are of bees and brood on frames. Most are too limited in field-of-view to get much idea of general condition.

As for "Spring and Autumn feeding," I can't. Simply, I don't feed. I did when I was first starting in beekeeping, but I do not now and have not for a few years. I am not a commercial beekeeper in any sense of the word, so for convenience's sake and out of my own desire not to spend money buying syrup (I know, I know, honey is worth more than syrup -- but I don't have to lay out the cash for the honey that is still in the hive, and I'm not selling honey anyway at this point), I do not feed.

But where's your data, Boris? I've been expecting you to post how many observations of "queenless" and "queenright" new hives "actively collecting pollen" and "not actively collecting pollen" you've observed.


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

Kieck said:


> ...Honestly, I don't have photos of most of my yards.
> ... So, that goes for "inside condition" of hive bodies, too. I'll dig up a few that I do have,...
> ...As for "Spring and Autumn feeding," I can't. Simply, I don't feed.


I don't have any more questions...

Boris


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## Hanover Honey (Mar 26, 2008)

I never take pictyres of my hive. What does that make me? Maybe I don't even know what a bee is because I don't take pictures. Maybe I'll be smarter if I took pictures.


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

MichaelW said:


> Am I really reading this?


If you are, you must be as bored as I am. It's like trying to make sense with Tec. However I am impressed that one could know for certain that they only lost two or three hundred bees per hive during the winter.


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

Beekeepers are so quick to judge. Just listen to what another beekeepers has to say. Maybe you will learn something, maybe you wont. Take everything with a grain of salt. 

thank you Boris for your insights.


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

MichaelW said:


> Am I really reading this?
> 
> Natural beekeeping, per various beesource users, has become
> so utterly meaningless that it hardly deserves a few words about it.
> ...


Natural Beekeeping: Organic Approaches to Modern Apiculture (Paperback)
by Ross Conrad (Author), Gary Paul Nabhan (Foreword) :
http://www.amazon.com/Natural-Beekeeping-Organic-Approaches-Apiculture/dp/1933392088

"Beekeepers face new challenges in keeping bees alive and healthy but until now there's been no holistic orientation on beekeeping. Natural Beekeeping offers up an alternative to chemical practices and delivers a program of natural hive management [to]...produce naturally resistant, healthier hives. Both novices and neo-pros receive tips on everything from genetics and breeding to pests and harvesting, with chapters coming from one who learned from world-renowned beekeeper” Charles Mraz

About the Author
Ross Conrad learned his craft from the late Charles Mraz, world-renowned beekeeper and founder of Champlain Valley Apiaries in Vermont. Former president of the Vermont Beekeepers Association, Conrad has written numerous articles on organic farming, natural healing, and health issues. His market-garden business supplies local stores with fruits, vegetables, and honey. Ross lives in Middlebury, Vermont.


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

BULLSEYE BILL said:


> If you are, you must be as bored as I am. It's like trying to make sense with Tec. However I am impressed that one could know for certain that they only lost two or three hundred bees per hive during the winter.


" ...per hive..." - Please do not modify my statements any more.

I can see a lot of envy in your words…

I think you missed some very important issues:
1. Look at the thickness of my wooden bottom bodies - 1 1/2". 
2. My colonies are Russians ONLY. "Hubert D.Tubbs Apiaries in Webb, Mississippi in winter of 2000 had an opportunity to witness the Russian bees' durability thanks to a harsh winter. Of his1,500 domestic colonies, 1,200 to 1,400 were lost, whereas of his 2,000 Russian-bred colonies, only 2 didn't survive."
Did you ever achieve a similar result?
3. For the Spring and Autumn feeding I use ONLY natural honey and pollen instead of using high fructose corn or sugar syrups and other supplemental feeding!
4. I do not use any chemicals.
5. All my hives have superior ventilation.

Boris


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

> =Boris;314905I can see a lot of envy in your words…
> 
> I think you missed some very important issues:
> 1. Look at the thickness of my wooden bottom bodies - 1 1/2".
> ...


Boris, I commend you on your accomplishments, and I know that you just want to share the 'one true way', but the truth is that the writing on your tablets is not the only 'way'. You make outrageous claims of almost utter certainty and if anyone has a hard time accepting your gospel even with a fair size piece of rock salt your rail up with indignity.

If using 1.5" thick bottoms or boxes makes all the difference in overwintering, then why are other types of feral bees surviving in those thick trees out there? They only have honey for stores to make it on. 

You must have missed that there are many of us here on this board that do not indulge in the chemical bandwagon, myself included, and we are enjoying good overwintering. My losses were in the 8% range which in my book is about as good as I can expect for not treating my hives for about five years. Sorry I can't claim two to three hundred bees per BOX as you can, but that is a number that you can not in all honesty claim nor be expected to be believed by others.


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## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

> I don't have any more questions... -Boris


You may not, but I do:

First, could you show us your data that your used to reach your "99.9 percent guarantee," Boris?

Secondly, I'd like to know how you would respond to the following situation:

A new beekeeper buys a package of bees, installs them in a new hive with new foundation at the beginning of a nectar flow, and leaves them alone for one week. When he returns, the queen is no longer in the queen cage, but he is unable to locate the queen and cannot find any eggs. Thinking that the queen must have just been released and hasn't started laying yet, he leaves them for another week. Two weeks after installing the package, the beekeeper checks the hive again, cannot find the queen (chalks that up to inexperience), cannot see any eggs (chalks that up to simply not having good enough eyesight to see eggs), but sees workers returning to the front of his hive with loads of pollen. Remembering your "99.9 percent guarantee" on this thread, he believes that all must be well with his new hive, despite not finding a queen or eggs. The next week, the hive is clearly queenless, and workers are dying/abandoning the hive.

What would you tell him if he asked you about his situation and your guarantee?


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## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

> 2. My colonies are Russians ONLY. "Hubert D.Tubbs Apiaries in Webb, Mississippi in winter of 2000 had an opportunity to witness the Russian bees' durability thanks to a harsh winter. Of his1,500 domestic colonies, 1,200 to 1,400 were lost, whereas of his 2,000 Russian-bred colonies, only 2 didn't survive." -Boris


Especially depending on location, I wouldn't necessarily equate "winter survival" with "bees of Russian descent." 

A "harsh winter" in Mississippi is considerably different than a "harsh winter" in New York or a "harsh winter" in South Dakota.

I have seen no greater rate of overwintering survival among Russian bees (which are not really a distinct subspecies) than among Carniolans in this area. And the difference is not that great between either of those and Minnesota hygienics.


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

BULLSEYE BILL said:


> Sorry I can't claim two to three hundred bees per BOX as you can...


" How can my theory and observation results confirmed?
Everyone can easily repeat my experiments:
- Scientists and beekeepers can extrapolate the results of these studies to bee colonies and add data from other experiments. For example, in the fall, feed two colonies with syrup and another two colonies with honey and pollen. Scientists from universities from different locations can use a wider sample (perhaps 10 colonies to be fed with sugar syrup, 10 colonies with corn syrup and 10 colonies to be fed with honey and pollen). In the spring, during the first colony inspection, compare the number of dead bees in each of the observed colonies. You will see that colonies that were fed with honey and pollen will have at least 15-20% less dead bees than the colonies that were fed with syrup. During this experiment, maintain bees in identical conditions in order to observe only the effect of feeding. This experiment should be repeated 2-3 years in a row." From my web page:
http://www.beebehavior.com/weak_state_bee_colonies.php


P.S. 1. I've added this to my previous post: 5. All my hives have superior ventilation.
2. Kieck, you will not get even a word from me, because you "showed me" your 
" …experiences…"

Boris


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## NeilV (Nov 18, 2006)

*Just wondering*

What is the function of painting the inside of the hive with vegetable oil? Is it a substitute for paint, a substitute for grease patties or what?

ndvan


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

BULLSEYE BILL said:


> Sorry I can't claim two to three hundred bees per BOX as you can, but that is a number that you can not in all honesty claim nor be expected to be believed by others.


That's the full quote Borus. Do you think by ignoring what you don't want to hear that it makes it any less relevant? You are as hopeless to reason with as Tec. Enjoy your rose colored glasses.


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## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

> 2. Kieck, you will not get even a word from me, because you "showed me" your
> " …experiences…" -Boris


I mentioned my experiences, Boris, because I thought they might add a different dimension to this thread. I added them to throw in a bit of caution about simply accepting "pollen gathering" as a sign of "queenright" colonies.

I will post my notes about the colonies I mentioned, if you'd like. The fact that I do not have photographs of each colony I mentioned should hardly be a surprise; I doubt most beekeepers document "evidence" the way you imply beekeepers must.

Your comments make me curious about your reasons for posting this sort of information, though. Were you trying to help new beekeepers? Or wishing to demonstrate your knowledge of bees?


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## stoweski (Apr 1, 2008)

ndvan said:


> What is the function of painting the inside of the hive with vegetable oil? Is it a substitute for paint, a substitute for grease patties or what?
> 
> ndvan


I too would like to know what this is for. As a new beekeeper getting into the hobby I have those new hive bodies you mention... of which *all* are poly and not wood. Do you only coat the bottom hive bodies with the oil or every body... including supers? 

I feel like putting every bit of advise that I read or gets sent my way into a hat and drawing a few at a time to use. I do not believe there is another hobby with so many different possibilities! Sometimes it's overwhelming! 

Oh well, I get my bees a few weeks late this year... May 17th and I'm very eager to get them in their new hives. Should be a fun new hobby as long as I do the 'right' thing. 

Keith


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## hsbcapt (Mar 31, 2008)

I'm new to beekeeping myself and would have never thought that a box of bugs could be so enjoyable. Even my wife puts on a veil and joins in with me. Good luck with your new hobby.


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

"Originally Posted by ndvan 
What is the function of painting the inside of the hive with vegetable oil? Is it a substitute for paint, a substitute for grease patties or what?
ndvan" 



stoweski said:


> I too would like to know what this is for...
> Keith


I use sunflower oil (NOT vegetable oil) to reduce mold. Please see picture #5

Boris


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

Boris said:


> "P.S. 1. I've added this to my previous post: 5. All my hives have superior ventilation."
> 
> Boris


If you have 'superior ventilation', then why do you have to fight mold by painting your hives with SUNFLOWER oil?


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## MichelinMan (Feb 18, 2008)

stoweski said:


> I do not believe there is another hobby with so many different possibilities! Sometimes it's overwhelming!
> 
> Keith


Don`t get overwhelmed Keith. I`m a newbee too. There`s a lot of useful stuff on the web and this forum. But like my mentor said: " You can put 10 beekeepers in a room and somehow you`ll end up with 11 opinions. "

Experience is the best teacher.


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## jasontatro (Feb 6, 2008)

MichelinMan said:


> " You can put 10 beekeepers in a room and somehow you`ll end up with 11 opinions. "


Gee....only 11? I think you're underestimating.


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

BULLSEYE BILL said:


> If you have 'superior ventilation', then why do you have to fight mold by painting your hives with SUNFLOWER oil?


My approach is similar to IPM – I have to apply many techniques to reach my goal.

“…After 50+ years of beekeeping I find I still learn something new about bees almost every day. This is not something that can be mastered over night, there will always be a challenge as hives change season by season… “ From: http://www.beeworks.com

Now is my turn. 
1. How do you feed your colonies?
2. What type of housing did your provide to your tenants (bees)? - mobile home type (without attic and so on) or modern energy-efficient house?

Boris


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

It sure seems to me that a fella that has 50+ years of beekeeping knowledge would have a better understanding of bees.

A. With proper ventilation there will be no mold in a hive, unless there is a lot of flooding.

B. Bees propolise everything in the hive, even the boxes, so why bother when the bees will do it?

C. Gums, even when propolised, have bare wood beneath to draw moisture and preserve it for when it is needed.

What is 'natural' about painting the inside of your hive with SUNFLOWER oil?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>>If the worker bees are actively bringing pollen to the hive, it's a 99.9 percent guarantee that everything is okay with the queen.

>Queenless hives will consistently stuff combs with pollen...
>So, bringing in pollen may mean many things, but it is a less-than reliable
indicator of a laying queen.

I've seen queenles hives hauling pollen like crazy with many frames full of pollen. I've seen other queenless hives that were lethargic and not hauling much of anything. Some queenless hives are very docile. Some are very hot. I do not consider pollen gathering to be a sign of anything other than a supply of pollen being available.  And even that may be grain dust, saw dust or coffee grounds...

>There is a certain percentage of new packages or splits
that will reject their queen for no apparent reason at all.
Most in the first week or two.

And they usually seem to move next door. And they seem to do it whether the queen is still in the cage or loose. I always wonder if the queen was banked too long and not making enough QMP or maybe some are even virgins... I've seen the perecentage of these go up in the last couple of years.


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

BULLSEYE BILL said:


> What is 'natural' about painting the inside of your hive with SUNFLOWER oil?


You did not answer for my questions...
While “the ball is in your court” - please do not ask me new questions.


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

Michael, Here are some remarks on your statements:



Michael Bush said:


> I've seen queenles hives hauling pollen like crazy with many frames full of pollen. I've seen other queenless hives that were lethargic and not hauling much of anything. Some queenless hives are very docile. Some are very hot. I do not consider pollen gathering to be a sign of anything other than a supply of pollen being available.  And even that may be grain dust, saw dust or coffee grounds...


Such situation is possible only if new eggs were left by your queen. And your bees were ready to build new queen cells. Otherwise, behavior of your bees were unnatural

"...There is a certain percentage of new packages or splits
that will reject their queen for no apparent reason at all.
Most in the first week or two..." - My topic is not about Queenless hive in general.

What is your opinion about this fact: "The Biology of the Honey bees (Apis mellifera): worker bees collect the pollen and then mix it with some nectar. Such form of mixture (called beebread) is a protein-rich food used to feed the larvae (immature bees)"

Boris


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I only know that over the years I have found some queenless hives filling every available cell with pollen. I have no idea what they are thinking. But they obviously weren't feeding larvae with it. When I found hives in this situation they had plugged up most of two deeps with pollen.


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

Kiek says


> I will post my notes about the colonies I mentioned, if you'd like. The fact that I do not have photographs of each colony I mentioned should hardly be a surprise; I doubt most beekeepers document "evidence" the way you imply beekeepers must.


I tried to keep photographic records measuring cell size and colony strength on each frame in 10 colonies, but the fully charged camera battery gave out before I got through the second hive. I think the propolis would have probably ruined the camera if I could have used it for the entire procedure, as it was getting pretty gummed up by the time the battery gave out. The pictures turned out to be much, much less useful then the field notes taken from direct observation.


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## Bud Dingler (Feb 8, 2008)

*I sell honey at a large metropolitan farmers market*

We have a large number of Russian and Eastern European immigrants who of course gravitate to the honey stands. 

Many of them are very polite and kind people. Others are stubborn and arrogant and there are a couple who have been banned from the market because of their confrontational style and rudeness to vendors. 

One fella insisted I must have corn syrup mixed into some water white basswood I had on the table one time. I explained that was impossible. 

He was very sure of himself and left saying " I from Russia, I know bees!, you Americans are stupid!"


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

I've added new photo (dated December 17, 2008)with my comments here:
http://www.beebehavior.com/natural_beekeeping.php

Boris


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## mudlake (Nov 26, 2007)

Very nice Thank You Tony


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## wayacoyote (Nov 3, 2003)

I like the lawn (mower) cart.


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## BoogerT (Dec 16, 2008)

Boris,

Would you explain this please, especially the use of the word 'immunize'?

"To improve a protective response of my bees to bacteria I immunize them with fresh grated onion twice: in the late Autumn and in the early Spring."

Thanks!


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## Nate Ellis (Jun 28, 2008)

Great ideas I like the plywood over the bottom entrance:thumbsup: Id also like to hear more on the grated onion recipe.


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

BoogerT and Nate Ellis,

You "forced" me to create my new web page ”Prophylactics during bad weather condition”: http://www.beebehavior.com/bee_immunization.php

I will try to finish this page as soon as I can.

Boris


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

BoogerT said:


> Boris,
> 
> Would you explain this please, especially the use of the word 'immunize'?
> 
> ...


And this is considered "Natural Beekeeping"? Where in nature does one find fresh grated onion in a bee hive?


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

sqkcrk said:


> And this is considered "Natural Beekeeping"? Where in nature does one find fresh grated onion in a bee hive?


To understand the meaning of Natural beekeeping you have to read the “Natural Beekeeping” book by Ross Conrad:
- the sticky paper within the trap can be made attractive to mites by adding methyl
palmitate to … (p#118)
- the heating apparatus (!) to apply the precise mite-killing temperature (page #126) and so on.

Also you can ask Kim Flottum why his name related to this book.

I think, Natural beekeeping is beekeeping without any chemicals and without any syrups and other supplemental feeding. Beekeeping with naturally mated queens and so on.

Can you keep you bees without any chemicals?


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## WayneW (Jul 17, 2008)

Sad sad sad, this post has become more about egos than beekeeping.

Boris, at the start i gave you credit for making your observations, posting results and keeping an active and informative website (something we all could use), but you have now succumbed to the "trash talking" others who see things differently have dealt to you.

Personally, i read every thread with interest, take bits and pieces that make sense to me, and develop a "collective" of information to gain knowledge. (obviously i DONT participate in Tailgater :shhhh: ).

It's a shame that people feel the need to bash some for their posts, rather than to read, and agree or not, move on to the next post. I am new to beekeeping this past season, and i have much to learn. I learn it as i stated "bits and pieces here and there". I would never EVER take one persons word (or opinions) as my LAST bit of learning and proceed from there. So even if things you posted are mis-stated, or over emphisized, or what ever, your observations did no harm. If a new beekeeper were to come in this forum, read your post, and take it as gospell, then I fear he would have a very dissapointing first season.(as would be the case if they proceeded with anyone elses "single bit" of knowledge or opnion) Perhaps over your 50 years experience (think i got that right) you have developed methods and stratigies that work wonders for you...... good for you, and in posting your findings you may well help others.

This board is full of newbees, long time hobbyists, commercial keepers for honey/pollination, and sideliners as well. Some use chemicals, some dont, some have topbar hives, others use only langs, and there is a slew of other variants. Thats the BLESSING HERE..........NOT THE PROBLEM. I personally thank each and everyone of the posters here for any and all observations........wether i agree or not........Take advice and observations at face value, try MANY things, fail and succeed.......maybe one day you too will be a beekeeper.


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

WayneW said:


> Sad sad sad...


Some people prefer dual standards...

Wayne,

Why you were not against to original Bud's "Natural Girls" post?
It was not my idea – I just responded to it. And thanks to my response bad post was removed.

Boris


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

My beekeeping is more natural than yours . I don't paint the inside of my hives with anything. I also don't use any foundation or other artificial substances in my hives, just bees and wood. I haven't lost a hive in several years, other than a late season nuc. My ventilation system is a stick under the migratory top and works great in the Texas sun, and no mold - ever. Oh, and I went from 3 hives to 50+ in a few years without buying any bees. No, I don't have any idea how many die over the winter and neither do you. First, you don't know how many are in the hive to begin with. Second, you don't know where they go to die, or what happens after they die with ants and such. What you do know is how many dead are left inside the hive on the bottom board. Welcome back Boris. Thanks for the wooden frame section artical you posted a while back. Lighten up, we have a lot of successful beekeepers here and almost all of them do something different from the others.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

i don't want to put anyone down, but when one publishes a book (and is on the road doing talks based on the book and selling the book), one wonders how the book works for the author.



Boris said:


> To understand the meaning of Natural beekeeping you have to read the “Natural Beekeeping” book by Ross Conrad:


it would probably be relevant to ask the author himself how these techniques have been working for his bees. my understanding is that they were not working, and that he was trying to convert over to small cell.

the biggest problem with this book (imho) is the lack of "this has worked for me long term" kind of data that we are used to reading in the beekeeping books written by beekeepers (not researchers)...and more "this works for some", "some do this", and "this is an option". very different from "this is what i have been doing for X years and it has provided me with longterm success".

the truth is, that "treatments" (even "natural" or "organic" ones) are all the same. if they are effective, they mask symptoms, they propagate poorly suited genetics, and in the long run, they lead to stronger and stronger "treatments" and a weak gene pool.

deknow


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

Ross said:


> My beekeeping is more natural than yours.


But what about your huge feeder with syrup. Do you use any chemicals?

Also tell me please – my approach to reduce bee losses without
chemicals – is a bad idea?

Boris


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

deknow said:


> ...
> the truth is, that "treatments" (even "natural" or "organic" ones) are all the same. if they are effective, they mask symptoms, they propagate poorly suited genetics, and in the long run, they lead to stronger and stronger "treatments" and a weak gene pool.
> 
> deknow


I completely agree with this statement. Therefore I am trying to reduce my influences on my bees step by step.

Boris


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## brooksbeefarm (Apr 13, 2008)

*natural beekeeping*

Boris,Just because someone writes a book doesn!t mean it!s gospel.I also think if you would have said 50 percent instead of 99.9 percent you wouldn!t of had the backlash.I!ve heared that the Indians believed that rocks are forever,and that I take as gospel.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

Boris said:


> I completely agree with this statement. Therefore I am trying to reduce my influences to my bees step by step.
> Boris


this is admirable, yet i think flawed.

i can't see the mechanism by which gradually tapering off of treatments (even grated onion treatments) helps in the long term. in the end, the longer treatments are used, the more of your stock ends up with unsuitable genes.

i'm sure there is a clever mathematical way to describe this, but the more quickly you can cull those with resistant genes out of your operation (presumably by letting them die off), the sooner you are breeding from survivors, and the sooner you end up back on top with numbers of healthy hives.

at some point presumably, one stops all treatments. imho, the faster this is done, the faster the problem is solved.

deknow


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

brooksbeefarm said:


> Boris,Just because someone writes a book doesn!t mean it!s gospel...


But without books like “Natural beekeeping” and revues on such books by professional beekeepers how we can get or establish definition of Natural Beekeeping?

Boris


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

why do we need a definition of "natural beekeeping"?

certainly the definition of "organic food" has done nothing but bring down the quality of what we used to call "organic food"...it is now shipped in from all over the world in plastic packaging and "certified" by agencies that are in different countries than the producers.

instead of trying to define a term that encompases all of our ideas about "natural beekeeping", i think it's much better to educate the public, and provide a description of the practices used, a justification as to why these are important (in contrast with other practices). this is far more precise and accurate than defining a single term that, if history is any guide, will eventually be coopted and changed by those that don't do what you or i consider "natural beekeeping".

deknow


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

Boris said:


> But without books like “Natural beekeeping” and revues on such books by professional beekeepers how we can get or establish definition of Natural Beekeeping?


also, i expect (as i said earlier) that an honest evaluation of the methods described in this book BY IT'S AUTHOR BASED ON HIS OWN REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE would find it lacking in it's ability to keep bees alive.

deknow


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

deknow said:


> this is admirable, yet i think flawed.
> ...
> deknow


Formally, my technic described here:
http://www.beebehavior.com/natural_beekeeping.php
(Photo dated December 17, 2008) is also treatment. 
But in some situation without such treatment bees will die.
A you against such treatments? 
And what is your REAL alternative? Just tell me shortly.


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

deknow said:


> why do we need a definition of "natural beekeeping"?
> 
> deknow


This question is a nonsense. 
People created words and concepts for proper (effective) communication between people.

Ross,
Is this your Natural beekeeping practice?
http://www.myoldtools.com/Bees/beefeeder.jpg


Boris


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## brooksbeefarm (Apr 13, 2008)

*natural beekeeping?*

Beekeeping yes,Natural no.For thousands of years man has manipulated bees to the point that I doubt the bees know what is natural.When they swarm from our hives, I think i!ve heared they will die out within 3 to 4 yrs.Without mans help.(not natural)I!ve known bee trees that had bees almost constantly for 30 to 40 yrs,until the mites showed up (1990!s) That was as close to natural that i!ve seen.But when you take bees and put them in a box with frames for them to build comb on,(with or without foundation) spray onion juice on them,I think theory manipulation would be a better term than natueral beekeeping.Maybe i!m just nitpicking? Professionals? alot of our beekeeping problems now are caused by people who think they are professionals,granted they have years of study, experience and beekeeping is their profession,but that doesn!t make them professionals on all aspect!s of beekeeping,natural or not.Different manipulation and theory in beekeeping is a good way to learn,but natural and organic in my opinion(which doesn!t account for much) is long gone.Jack


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## Bud Dingler (Feb 8, 2008)

*is natural better?*

if I lived in the woods and did everything naturally, how would I wipe myself in the morning? 

how would I bath? during the winter? or is bathing natural? native peoples relied on their body oils to keep them warm in the winter and less appealing to bugs and mosquitos in the summer. 

i'm being silly but the point is why is natural anything any better then modern improvements? without some improvements we would not enjoy keeping bees the way I assume most users on beesource do. 

its kind of hard to enjoy a hive in a tree 25 ft off the ground.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Boris said:


> Can you keep you bees without any chemicals?


Can I? I don't think so. But perhaps i can. I don't.

This reminds me of a queastion my Father brought up many years ago when people were so hepped up over Organic Gardening and not using "chemical" fertalizers. Everything is made of chemicals, so how can you use some things as treatments and not call them chemicals?

This also reminds me of the Raw Honey debates. In my mind the only truly raw honey is comb honey.

Semantics, I believe. Natural Beekeeping would be keeping bees in their natural state and chosen hive. But that's just me, I guess.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Bud Dingler said:


> if I lived in the woods and did everything naturally, how would I wipe myself in the morning?


W/ your left hand, just like most of the rest of the world.


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

yep, I fed in the fall that year on the tail of a 3 year drought. I fed 400#s of sugar that fall. The alternative was starting over in the spring. I saved 20 hives. The $100 or so in sugar would have bought one nuc or package. What's your point? I don't feed unless I have to. Last time I checked sugar was still fit for human consumption.


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

Ross said:


> yep, I fed in the fall that year on the tail of a 3 year drought. I fed 400#s of sugar that fall. The alternative was starting over in the spring. I saved 20 hives. The $100 or so in sugar would have bought one nuc or package. What's your point? ....


You explained picture posted in 2006.
But you forgot to explain these pictures and posts: 
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193391
"...The syrup flows under the butter bucket without problem. More when the weather warms again later in the week..." This post was dated: 01-23-2005. 
"...The girls emptied the feeder in less than a week (pretty strong hive)..." 
"...I have had a couple come loose after a season (WOW) of use..."
"...I now use inverted 2 gallon plastic buckets for most of my feeding. They are just easier for me to use and ants can't get in them. Ants are a big problem for me with most of the other hive top feeders."

and so on. 
It was bad season too?

If you are using syrups – your beekeeping practice is not Natural.
I think you have to have natural food for any occasions.

For example,
http://www.beebehavior.com/natural_beekeeping.php 
( pictures dated April 07, 2008)
and here:
http://www.beebehavior.com/packaged_bees.php
(the first picture from this link)

Boris


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## bleta12 (Feb 28, 2007)

Boris said:


> If you are using syrups – your beekeeping practice is not Natural.
> I think you have to have natural food for any occasions.
> 
> For example,
> ...


Feeding sugar syrup is more natural than pealing your onion.
I do respect your beekeeping practice but there is nothing wrong in emergency feeding.

Gilman


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Bud Dingler said:


> if I lived in the woods and did everything naturally, how would I wipe myself in the morning?


Mullen always works in a pinch.


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

bleta12 said:


> ... but there is nothing wrong in emergency feeding.
> Gilman


1. Please read his posts, dated from 01-23-2005 also. It were not emergency feedingS(!) at all.
2. And again, even for an emergency feeding you have to have natural food

Boris


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

Boris...how many hives do you run?


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

Geez, I just told you it was a 3 year drought. If you run out of honey to feed what do you do, let them die? Personally, I'd rather sell honey at $8 a pint and feed sugar at pennies a gallon if it comes down to that. And its still better than foundation with unknown chemical residue and sunflower oil.


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

My topic is very specific (not beekeeping in general), therefore I don’t like to spend my time on useless debate. Life is too short…

I am trying to combine efforts of beekeepers with beekeeping practices similar to my (but not with "natural beekeepers" like Ross or with "theoretical beekeepers").
My main goal is healthy bees...

To my followers: “Last Modified:” information from my web pages will help you to see updates. 

Short advice for beginners: 
“…In other words, the best way to have healthy bees is to breed your own, but starting with your own healthy bees rather than named heirlooms.
…Start with bees from a local beekeeper, because having bees adapted to the climate is important. Spread your hives out, if you can, and stick to natural treatments….”
From : http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/27/garden/27bees.html

Boris


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

From the pictures of your bee yards I count about 20 hives...is this about right?


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## bleta12 (Feb 28, 2007)

I wish you luck on your work with bees Boris.

Gilman


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## Bud Dingler (Feb 8, 2008)

*burning bees*

"Usually, after a cold storm, some bees die. They fall onto the bottom board, including the area near the lower hive entrance, consequently impeding hive ventilation. Additionally, the dead bees are a source of infections.

Because the outside temperature is too low to fly, worker bees cannot remove dead bodies from the hive. To help the bees in this situation, I use a hook made from metal wire. It allows me to remove dead bees easily. Afterwards, I burn the dead bodies"

from Boris's webpage

http://www.beebehavior.com/natural_beekeeping.php

why would the bees be infected if they died "naturally" from the cold or moisture buildup? 

I've never burned bees before - can you give us some tips to get them lit?


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

Bud Dingler said:


> "
> I've never burned bees before - can you give us some tips to get them lit?


I knew he was smoking something. :shhhh:


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## BoogerT (Dec 16, 2008)

deknow,

Why do you regularly discredit Conrad's Natural Beekeeping book as you discredit so many things you apparently don't understand? It's obvious you haven't read the book.

Conrad's book is what the Organicbeekeepers group should really be all about; reasonable, logical, modern, *NATURAL*, *ORGANIC* beekeeping.

I'll bet you didn't even know that he gives credit to your hero Dee Lusby (along with several others) for encouraging him to write the book.

Sad, sad, sad.


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

*Phytoncides and honey bee health*

Phytoncides of pine trees are capable of killing various microbes
within a considerable distance. It is a known fact that feral bees
that live in coniferous forests are usually healthy. Therefore, I
decided to place my bee yards near the border with a coniferous
forest. If there is no forest in your area, you can plant some pine trees near your hives. These trees will also act as windbreakers.
(from: http://www.beebehavior.com/natural_beekeeping.php )

I tried to find any US studies, related to the positive influences of natural
pytoncides on the honey bee health, but I did not find anything.
Therefore, I'm looking for the studies similar to the studies described here:
http://www.beebehavior.com/phytoncides.php

Thank you in advance.
Boris


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## uncletom (Apr 4, 2003)

Boris;

Is this only "PINE" trees or do other conifers have similar properties?

How about larch?

thank you


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

*Larch and phytoncides*



uncletom said:


> Boris;
> Is this only "PINE" trees or do other conifers have similar properties?
> How about larch?
> thank you


Uncletom,

“Various spices, onion, garlic, oak and pine trees, and many other plants give off phytoncides.” (from Wikipedia)

“Wood of Siberian larch remains healthy during all the service time and emits phytoncides – microscopical volatile agents, which prevent respiratory and virus illnesses and provide natural clearing of air from virulent ill microbes.”
From: http://www.arbexim.sk/gb/larch_gb.htm

Boris


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## mgmoore7 (Jul 6, 2007)

Michael Bush said:


> >>If the worker bees are actively bringing pollen to the hive, it's a 99.9 percent guarantee that everything is okay with the queen.
> 
> >Queenless hives will consistently stuff combs with pollen...
> >So, bringing in pollen may mean many things, but it is a less-than reliable
> ...


As a fairly new beek, I had hives go queenless several times already. Pollen was more of a confirmation of a queenless hive than a indication of a queenrite hive. Let me explain.

In each case (I believe 3 times on 3 hives over 1 year), when I inspected the hive, the bees filled brood comb with pollen as the remaining brood hatched. I ended up having frames full of pollen where there were brood and now a queenless hive.


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

mgmoore7 said:


> ... and now a queenless hive.


Mgmoore,

1. It is very possible, that:
- initially you did not find (did not see) your queen. Sometimes the queen can be on the wall or the floor of the hive;
- or you accidentally damaged (kill) your queens during a hive inspection. 

2. My percentage does not include beekeeper’s mistakes.

Therefore, please remember my very simple, but very useful recommendation:
“You should examine your bee hives only in case of obvious necessity.
Before you plan to disturb your bees, think about the appropriateness of
such a step. Remember, that during the honey flow season, each opening of
the hive leads to significant losses of honey.
Also, every time you inspect your hive there is a chance that you
accidentally could damage or kill the queen. Therefore, try to find
answers to your concerns based on indirect observation and outside
attributes.” 

As a proof of my “pollen collection – queen presence” theory you can see two last pictures, dated May 3,4 2008 and May 2008 here: http://www.beebehavior.com/packaged_bees.php

Boris


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

*Linseed Oil*

“ A “green” alternative to painting and other wood preservative techniques applied to your hives. A traditional method used by our beekeeping ancestors.”
From Betterbee 2009 catalog – page 20)
New for 2009 – Boiled Linseed Oil (1 quart - $8.95)

More details are here: http://www.beebehavior.com/oil_hive_preservation.php

Boris


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

Hi Boris,

Enjoyed your web site. You offer some truly unique ideas! (at least for here). It's good for us all to keep on our toes, look towards the horizon and be open to different concepts! The science of what you speak is helpful for research, thanks. You speak as someone who was "Green" before "Green" was popular.

I'm assuming you are of Russian Heritage and having a few thousand Russian Customers in our NYC markets I've spent a great deal of time talking about beekeeping with them in their homeland. I have to tell you sometimes the language barrier is wide but the effort to share and communicate is powerful. A couple of items which are very consistent is the somewhat "different" methodolgies used to keep hives alive in what apparrently is an unforgiving enviroment with some apparrent knowledge of the science of the method. As well ther is a very consistent dedication to using honey, proplis, pollen, and for many of my Russian customers, fresh,dead bees for brewing a health tonic like tea.

How long have you been keeping bees? Are you Russian (Heritage) and how did you come about to experiment with and use such things as onion juice in your hives? If the answer to the 1st question is yes are these practices and concepts common in beekeeping for your heritage?

Hope these question aren't too personal, I have a very deep interest in the ethnicity of beekeeping because I have an opportunity to meet beekeepers from so many different parts of the world and am always amazed at how much different information is being used outside the US or by folks with backgrounds that offer wider view than exposure on the continental US. Much of the Non-US focus seems to me much more pointed towards non-processed chemical control which has evolved from less access to our huge chemical companies here and our chemical/drug based socieity.

As to natural I will say there is nothing natural about keeping 10 or 15 hives in one place since this does not occur in nature anywhere. Natures answer to overpopulation is control of populations through starvation (overgrazing by populations beyond the size an area can support), Predation by other species and disease and in time weakness in breed due to generational inbreeding of a local population. You mention losing 200 or so bees a winter per hive. I think most beekeepers, and I'm assuming the one who asked the questions about losses, was expecting an answer that stated numbers of average hive losses in a season. Are you saying you don't have any hive losses?


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## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

> 2. My percentage does not include beekeeper’s mistakes. -Boris


I think it is unfair and incorrect to claim that if a queen dies "naturally," the workers will cease to collect pollen, but if a queen is killed by a beekeeper, the workers will plug frames with pollen. What would the difference be? Either way, the colony is queenless, and if pollen collection is a sign of queenright hive, then pollen collection after a beekeeper might have accidentally killed the queen disproves the hypothesis.


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

Joel said:


> Hi Boris,
> 
> Enjoyed your web site...
> 
> ... You mention losing 200 or so bees a winter per hive. I think most beekeepers, and I'm assuming the one who asked the questions about losses, was expecting an answer that stated numbers of average hive losses in a season. Are you saying you don't have any hive losses?


Joel,

Thank you for your comments.

1. There are many members of this forum with unreal names for some reasons. In these situation there is no sense to share any personal information with anonymous people.

2. ... "200 or so" per hive body, not per hive!

In addition, I completely understood your question. 

"Hubert D.Tubbs Apiaries in Webb, Mississippi in winter of 2000 had an opportunity to witness the Russian bees' durability thanks to a harsh winter. Of his1,500 domestic colonies, 1,200 to 1,400 were lost, whereas of his 2,000 Russian-bred colonies, only 2 (!!!) didn't survive."

So, as you can see, I am not the only one who reached such good result with ARS Russian bees. The followers of my beekeeping practices also can keep bees without winter's losses of bee colonies.

Boris


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

Linseed oil---Boiled linseed oil has heavy metal driers added to and is not food safe. That is what "boiled" means in todays world. A hundred years ago it was literally boiled, but not today except for one very small company, Tried and True. Raw linseed oil is an ideal medium for mold to grow in. Neither provides significant protection from the elements when exposed to the weather. Shellac on the other hand is food safe and has more moisture resistance. Paint is likely still the best alternative for the outside of hives, the insides need nothing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linseed_oil


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

I use my real name and am a pretty open type of guy, that's just me. I consider most of the people I've shared with here over the years as more than just anonymous people and for the most part folks if I had time in my life I would like to share a friendhip with. Since the size and scope of beesource may not allow that I certainly would extend that hand of friendship to most here even in the limited time we have. Pretty good bunch here from my experiance. Opinonated and animated at times but pretty top shelf people. Having said that I do understand some have valid concerns about revealing too much to strangers. 

I would suggest some of your work would make interesting articles for ABJ, especially with the degree of study on items such as relationship of hive temperatures and paint colors. Something to think about.

Good work on wintering and hive losses, apparrently what you are doing works well in our area. 

I'll glean what I can from your website, hope you keep us posted with new discoveries or more current successful techniques you use. Interesting stuff!


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

Ross,

I think that $8.95 for one quart of Linseed oil is too expensive, therefore I prefer olive or sunflower oil.

Boris


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## Stevedore (Jan 22, 2009)

Boris, you have a great looking web site and you are a terrific photographer. But to tell you the truth, you lost me when I saw the styrofoam hives and plastic coolers used for nucs. To me, "natural" means "sustainable" and this inevitably leads us to "green". There is absolotely nothing "green" or "sustainable" about stryrofoam (ever heard of formaldehyde out-gassing?) and no "natural" beekeeper would advocate a hive made of plastic.


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

Stevedore, thank you for your comments.

I agree with your opinion completely. But I think you did not see my statement from: http://www.beebehavior.com/bee_max_hives_pictures.php

“My bees and I are satisfied with BeeMax hives. Nevertheless, because the natural tendency of bees is to keep the brood nest near the entrance, since 2005 I have been using wooden hive bodies at the bottom of almost all of my hives (see below). I did so because I prefer to raise healthy colonies. It is important to remember that propolis provides numerous levels of protection. However, my personal observation shows that polystyrene BeeMax hives with plastic Pierco frames cause the quantity of propolis to decrease by 75% as compared to wooden hives with wooden frames.
When the brood area is more than one hive body (or your queen prefer the second hive body instead of the first one) - it is advisable to use wooden hive body for the whole area of brood nest.”

In addition, now I’m using my coolers primarily as storages for my "food reserves".
All my nucs are wooden, I would recommend to use a cooler as a nuc for emergency situation only.

Boris


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

Boris, none of these give any significant protection to the wood and I don't see a need for them. In addition, olive and sunflower are not drying or polimerizing oils. I see no benefit to the wood or the bees inside the hive or outside the hive.


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## Bud Dingler (Feb 8, 2008)

I can attest to what Boris is saying about counting the number of russians on the bottom boards. i'm in the north so my comments don't mean maybe as much to southern beekeepers but you have to winter over pure russians to really see the unbelievable wintering capability. 

furthermore what is astounding the first time you see it is you open up a deep single and the cluster looks like it never moved side to side all winter. the ARS data showed they winter on 1/3 less honey then Italians. 

for those who have to make a living with bees there is money to be saved by working russians. no feeding, no treatments of any kind. less trips to the bee yard. yes they do lay down queen cells more often but if you follow some of the cells you discover that many never hatch. its like they make cells in some conditions and the conditions change and they destroy the cells.


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

Ross said:


> Boris, none of these give any significant protection to the wood and I don't see a need for them. In addition, olive and sunflower are not drying or polimerizing oils. I see no benefit to the wood or the bees inside the hive or outside the hive.


Ross,

For my beekeeping practice the main goal is Mold prevention ( inside hives, frames) technics, especially for the winter time. This goal is very realistic, and everyone can try to reach it by choosing a proper hive (apiary) location and by providing a proper hive ventilation.
But , there are still no ideal hives, especially for climates with frequent temperature changes over a short period of time, therefore some beekeepers are trying to find a solution…
I started to use olive oil to preserve wood more than 40 years ago. And I know it works
perfectly. Therefore it is very logical for me to use olive oil in my beekeeping practices.
My experiments with sunflower oil showed me some positive results also.


In addition, by David A. Cushman:

“ Bee Hive Woodwork Preservation

Hives in good condition are a pleasure to use (I’m SO glad to hear this – I’m not alone!), look good, have a higher resale value, they also ultimately save some of that valuable commodity - beekeeper man hours !

I hear some say "the bees do not care whether their hives are good, bad or indifferent", but properly treated hives are easier for the beekeeper to manipulate. This means less disruptions to the bees and I believe this can have a noticeable effect (lack of stress... better wellbeing... more productive).
The philosophy behind my approach is simple...
Roofs and Stands do not need to 'breath' and are painted with exterior grade gloss paint. 

Floors and Coverboards have their upper and lower rims treated with Petroleum jelly (with white spirit added as a solvent/thinner). This soaks in and no propolis will then stick making cleaning a pleasure rather than a chore. All non contact surfaces on these items are treated with Raw Linseed Oil. 

Brood Boxes, Supers and Ekes have petroleum jelly applied to upper and lower mating surfaces as well as the rebate that takes the frame lugs. The outer surface is treated with Raw Linseed Oil and the inner surfaces are left untreated. 

Frame Lugs are not coated to avoid slippage when handling, but I apply a thin coat of petroleum jelly to the top surface of the top bar and a generous dab onto the end grain on the tips of the frame lugs.

I have been accused of "wasting time" by doing all of this, but I find that the time spent is well re payed in time saved manipulating the bees.”


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

"I have been accused of "wasting time" by doing all of this,"

I was one of the last beekeepers I know to do Basswood box comb honey. I enjoyed every step of what my beekeeping friends considered an unecessary and tedious process over other methods. If you get enjoyment out of taking your craft to this level and have the time, our most valuable commodity, I would say it's time well spent.


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

New photos, related to the hive ventilation were posted here:
http://www.beebehavior.com/hive_ventilation.php

Boris


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## Bud Dingler (Feb 8, 2008)

i wonder how bees in the wild get their "natural" ventilated?


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

My new photo related to the mold prevention (dated April 2, 2010)
was added here: http://www.beebehavior.com/natural_beekeeping.php

Boris


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## The Soap Pixie (Mar 15, 2010)

Boris said:


> One more tip for the Natural Beekeepers:
> 
> “…shaded apiary conditions caused colonies to have more mites. Overall, keeping entire apiaries of mite resistant honey bees in direct sun resulted in colonies having the fewest mites.
> …Exposure to sunlight retarded mite population growth while prolonged shade accelerated it, causing the death of many of the Italian colonies.” USDA ARS
> ...


Thank you so much for this information. My bees are arriving in 6 days and I have decided on a very sunny spot for my hive and 2nd guessed myself. Now I'm glad I've set up the location that I did.


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

The Soap Pixie said:


> Thank you so much for this information. My bees are arriving in 6 days and I have decided on a very sunny spot for my hive and 2nd guessed myself. Now I'm glad I've set up the location that I did.


The Soap Pixie,

Your hives should have perfect ventilation to avoid overheating and swarming... 
Also I recommend you to buy AcuRite thermometer with a sensor. 
Such small investment will help you control temperature inside of your hives year around. More details are here: http://www.beebehavior.com/hive_ventilation.php

Boris


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

"Small-cell comb foundation does not impede Varroa mite population growth in honey bee colonies

Abstract – In three independently replicated field studies, we compared biometrics of Varroa mite and honey bee populations in bee colonies housed on one of two brood cell types: small-cell (4.9 ± 0.08 mm cell width, walls inclusive) or conventional-cell (5.3 ± 0.04). In one of the studies, ending colony bee population was significantly higher in small-cell colonies (14994 ± 2494 bees) than conventional-cell (5653 ± 1082). However, small-cell colonies were significantly higher for mite population in brood (359.7 ± 87.4 vs. 134.5 ± 38.7), percentage of mite population in brood (49.4 ± 7.1 vs. 26.8 ± 6.7), and mites per 100 adult bees (5.1 ± 0.9 vs. 3.3 ± 0.5). With the three remaining ending Varroa population metrics, mean trends for small-cell were unfavorable. We conclude that small-cell comb technology does not impede Varroa population growth."

More details are here:
http://beebehavior.com/small_cell_comb_varroa_mites.php


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## Omie (Nov 10, 2009)

Boris said:


> New photos, related to the hive ventilation were posted here:
> http://www.beebehavior.com/hive_ventilation.php
> Boris


Boris, thanks for that lead.
I've been thinking a lot about my hives ventilation, having lost my only hive last winter due to what I suspect was a condensation problem.
Now I have two new hives, and I have been doing a lot of thinking about increasing ventilation. So far the bees are_ loving_ their top wide entrances I made for them.
When I saw the top inner cover design you linked to, it was exactly what I had imagined in my mind as the type of hive top I wanted to try to make somehow. Thank you! I just ordered 3 of them for my hives.


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

Omie said:


> ... I just ordered 3 of them for my hives.


I think the price is reasonable, but I recommend you to use any old wool blanket instead of Styrofoam for the wintertime - see the last picture and my comments from this link:
http://www.beebehavior.com/THSC_Unit.php


Boris Romanov


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

I strongly recommend to install any type of hive Awning. 
It is VERY helpful if summer temperature is too hot in your area.
For this purpose you can use light colored vinyl siding/soffit, metal roofing or piece of plywood.

Four new photos, dated July 07, 2010 were added here:
http://www.beebehavior.com/hive_ventilation.php

Good luck.

Boris Romanov


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

Yesterday I’ve added simple recommendation for beginners:
“If you find mouse droppings among dead bees, then you have to protect your hive.” http://www.beebehavior.com/natural_beekeeping.php
(See picture, dated December 17, 2008)

In addition, I’ve added new picture, related to this recommendation:
http://www.beebehavior.com/bee_yard_protection.php
(See picture, dated December 18, 2010 )

Boris

P.S. Corner Bead price info is here:
http://www.homedepot.com/Building-M...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

"The efficacy of small cell foundation as a varroa mite (Varroa destructor) control."
Ellis AM, Hayes GW, Ellis JD.

Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services, Division of Plant Industry, Bureau of Plant and Apiary
Inspection, Apiary Inspection Section, 1911 SW 34th St., Gainesville, FL, 32614-7100, USA. [email protected]

Abstract
"Due to a continuing shift toward reducing/minimizing the use of chemicals in honey bee colonies, we explored the possibility of using small cell foundation as a varroa control. Based on the number of anecdotal reports (! - B.R.) supporting small cell as an efficacious varroa control tool, we hypothesized that bee colonies housed on combs constructed on small
cell foundation would have lower varroa populations and higher adult bee populations and more cm(2) brood. To summarize our results, we found that the use of small cell foundation did not significantly affect cm(2) total brood, total mites per colony, mites per brood cell, or mites per adult bee, but did affect adult bee population for two sampling months. Varroa levels were similar in all colonies throughout the study. We found no evidence that small cell foundation was beneficial with regard to varroa control under the tested conditions in Florida."
From: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19067184


"Brood-cell size has no influence on the population dynamics of Varroa destructor mites in the native western honey bee, Apis mellifera mellifera*"

Abstract
"The varroa mite (Varroa destructor) is an ectoparasite of the western honeybee Apis mellifera that reproduces in the brood cells. The mite will generally kill colonies unless treatment is given, and this almost universally involves the use of chemicals. This study was undertaken to examine the effect of small cell size on the reproductive success of the mite, as a method of non-chemical control in the Northern European honeybee Apis
mellifera mellifera. Test colonies with alternating small and standard cell size brood combs were sampled over a three-month period and the population biology of the mites evaluated. To ensure high varroa infestation levels, all colonies were infested with mites from a host
colony prior to commencement. A total of 2229 sealed cells were opened and the varroa mite families recorded. While small-sized cells were more likely to be infested than the standard cells, mite intensity and abundance were similar in both cell sizes. 
Consequently, there is no evidence (! - B.R.) that small-cell foundation would help to contain the growth of the mite population in honeybee colonies and hence its use as a control method would not be proposed."
From:
http://www.apidologie.org/index.php...es/apido/full_html/2010/05/m09095/m09095.html

Note:
(! - B.R.) means attention from Boris Romanov


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

A recent (spring) inspection of my hives confirmed once more my "pollen collection as proof of the presence of a healthy and mated queen" theory posted here:
http://www.beebehavior.com/natural_beekeeping.php
(Part #2. Management of hives , Hive inspection section)

A couple of days ago, worker bees started actively bringing pollen to all hives, except for one. 
When I checked this hive, I found the queen, but neither eggs nor larvae nor caped brood were presented. All other hives were full of caped brood. 

Boris Romanov

P.S.
There are several options for a queen that is not laying eggs: wait for the appearance of the drones (for the young queen) or order a mated queen.


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## frazzledfozzle (May 26, 2010)

Hi Boris maybe you should post these findings regarding smallcell over on the treatment free forum as there seems to quite a few advocates of small cell over there.

might be food for thought and give another perspective for those new beekeepers contemplating trying small cell

frazz


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## Omie (Nov 10, 2009)

Frazz, i doubt those 'findings' would be welcome there. The new treatment free forum criteria state plainly that posts made with the intent to disprove or discourage treatment free methods are not allowed in that forum. This was put into place because it was becoming simply impossible to have productive discussions any longer, due to the constant disruptions and challenges from folks with no interest in using treatment free methods.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

I'd welcome the Ellis AM, Hayes GW, Ellis JD. study in that forum for discussion. After all, it is directly about SC!


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

To avoid useless discussions about SC , “…based on the number of anecdotal reports supporting small cell as an efficacious varroa control tool, …” (by the definition of Ellis AM, Hayes GW, Ellis JD) we have to talk about serious studies similar to this: “Small-cell comb foundation does not impede Varroa mite population growth in honey bee colonies..” posted here: http://www.beebehavior.com/small_cell_comb_varroa_mites.php

I hope small cell foundations will disappear from the market soon.

Boris Romanov

P.S. There are NO MORE small cell (4.9 mm) foundations in 2011 Betterbee catalog, because they know about recent studies related to the SC.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

> I hope small cell foundations will disappear from the market soon.


Do you also hope that the bees stop making smaller cells when they are left on their own?


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## Jim 134 (Dec 1, 2007)

Honey Bees (Apis Mellifera) is not natural to the USA or the Americas. So what kind of bees are you going to keep :s


http://www.orsba.org/htdocs/download/Honey Bees Across America.html

BEE HAPPY Jim 134


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

The cold weather has arrived.

I would recommend for new beekeepers to install any thermometer with a sensor to monitor temperature inside of your hive.

Such a small investment will help you control temperature inside of your hives year-round.
During wintertime, if you notice an unexpected temperature drop, you will get a chance to prevent a possible loss of your colonies.

I’ve added two photos here: http://www.beebehavior.com/natural_beekeeping.php

Boris Romanov


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

OK I'll bite. Just how will a thermometer in my colonies help me control the temperatures inside my hives? And, what exactly would you do if you noticed an unexpected temperature drop? And what exactly would you be able to do in mid-winter?


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

Michael Palmer said:


> ...Just how will a thermometer in my colonies help me control the temperatures inside my hives?


I my sytuation I installed thermometers WITH a PROBE/SENSOR (see picture) for all my hives.
This is the best investment I have ever made in my beekeeping practice.



Michael Palmer said:


> ...And, what exactly would you do if you noticed an unexpected temperature drop? And what exactly would you be able to do in mid-winter?



- Squeeze your colony (reduce the numbers of hive bodies in a hive)
Just two days ago I did it for some of my hives. 

Some options for the "mid-winter":
- wrap your weak hive(s)
- combine your weak hives on the one wooden pallet and wrap them as a one cluster.
- put your hive(s) into any temperature-controlled room and so on.

Boris Romanov


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

Boy i wish I was really really smart and could crowd my bees on a cold snowy day without chilling them and be smart enough to move hundreds of hives into a heated room and keep them from crawling on me and ending up in dying starving lumps on the wall. I guess you can do these things when you are really really smart!


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## Adam Foster Collins (Nov 4, 2009)

Wouldn't "squeezing" in midwinter require opening things up? Tough to do for some in mid-winter...

Adam


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Boris said:


> - Squeeze your colony (reduce the numbers of hive bodies in a hive)
> Just two days ago I did it for some of my hives.
> 
> [snip]
> ...


Raising more bees that need baby-sitting. You can have them.


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

Adam Foster Collins said:


> Wouldn't "squeezing" in midwinter require opening things up? Tough to do for some in mid-winter...
> Adam


Adam,

You have to read my post # 157 more carefully. Colony squeezing is not an option for the midwinter.

Boris Romanov


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Michael Palmer said:


> OK I'll bite. Just how will a thermometer in my colonies help me control the temperatures inside my hives? And, what exactly would you do if you noticed an unexpected temperature drop? And what exactly would you be able to do in
> mid-winter?


Aren't you glad you asked?


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## Adam Foster Collins (Nov 4, 2009)

Boris said:


> Adam,
> 
> You have to read my post # 157 more carefully. Colony squeezing is not an option for the midwinter.
> 
> Boris Romanov


Ah yes, I see. I did misread that. I apologize.

Adam


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

jim lyon said:


> Aren't you glad you asked?


Yep, I'm still at a loss. A thermoneter is the best investment ever...to tell you what bee work has to be done after it should have been done already...at least that's the way I see it.


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

"OK I'll bite. Just how will a thermometer in my colonies help me control the temperatures inside my hives? And, what exactly would you do if you noticed an unexpected temperature drop? And what exactly would you be able to do in mid-winter?" Michael Palmer Post#156



A really good situation has turned up to reply to these questions again from completely different foreshortening.

This winter is unusually warm therefore my bees are unusually active. In such situation they already ate all honey in some hives.

I recognized such situation, because temperature inside of these hives dropped significantly in comparison with the other hives...

So the thermometers gave me the very good chance to save my two colonies.

I posted new pictures related to this post here: http://beebehavior.com/feeder.php

Boris Romanov


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

Two cool pictures for the beekeepers in the hot/warm climates.

The 2013-2014 winter is unusually cold in my area. Nevertheless a large amount of snow plays perfectly a role of natural insulator:
http://www.beebehavior.com/beeimages/beelife/bee_yard_February14,2014.jpg

Two deep hive bodies (plus 6-inch THSCU) are totally under snow:
http://www.beebehavior.com/beeimages/beelife/bee_yard_February14,2014-2.jpg

Boris Romanov


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