# 'Native' & 'Local'



## mike bispham (May 23, 2009)

Our (publicly funded, 'stakeholder' steered) National Bee Unit appears to have been swayed by the Black Bee wallahs and are conducting a survey designed to find out what beekeepers think about black bees.

The problem is, instead of using the proper term 'native' they've largely substituted 'local'. That means any conversations about the present, feral, 'survivor' mongrel populations are robbed of the term. Sheesh. I wrote as follows:

"I have started filling out your Smart Bees survey, only to become stumped by a glaring flaw in the language.

Like many others I am breeding from local mongrel feral 'survivor' bees. Like many others -worldwide - I am finding among these bees strong and productive self-sufficient stock - bees that don't need treating or mollycoddling. And like many others I am doing my best to promote these qualities in my local feral population - my mating pool, and in nearby beekeepers' hives. I am doing this because self-sufficiency, and freedom from the need to medicate (which simply creates dependency) are the single most important objectives. if we want healthy bees we need a natural population in which natural selection works with dovetailing breeding aims to give us back our self-sufficient bees. 

And like others all over the world, I talk about these bees using the defining term 'Local'. These are strains that survive and thrive _here_.

Your survey is clearly written by somebody who want to restore the _native_ black bee - perhaps a worthwhile aim - but less important in terms of health than self-sufficiency. And it has taken the language used by those people who actually know how to make healthy self-sufficient bees, co-opting the term 'local' when it means 'native'. This will make it much much harder to have discussions about the merits of native verses local surviving bees.

Can you see the problem? "


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## B-Rant (Nov 8, 2012)

Mike, I believe it's worse than that. I believe the Black bees are native to Germany, so you can only use that term there.

B


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## AndrewoftheEast (Mar 29, 2015)

I thought black bees were more German, too. 
I expect sloppy language more from the USA - even with all our lawyers - than I do from the UK, but with bees becoming more and more cool and hipsters becoming more and more globalized, nothing bee-related is safe. I sure hope that policy isn't shaped by bad surveys.


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## Jim Brewster (Dec 17, 2014)

All the honey bees of NW European and British Isles origins--the original honey bees introduced to the North American east coast--tend to be dark in color. I didn't know the Germans had a trademark on the name "black bees."

Are the British bees truly "native" or did humans introduce them from the mainland in ancient times?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Are the British bees truly "native" or did humans introduce them from the mainland in ancient times?

Oh no! Maybe honeybees in England are invasive!? Kill them quick!


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Thing is, prior to Isle of Wight disease, and the mass shipment of bees from country to country, the black bees of Britain were not one identical race. They were certainly similar and no doubt related but varied from place to place, for example Irish bees could be distinguished from more southern bees, etc.

So to a purist, seeing things how they were in the past and hoping to somehow restore that, they would class their black bees as local. Some of these people are likely well versed in local variations that once existed, the reasons for them and caught in the appeal of trying to bring that back to some extent.

Anyone can run a survey. One day Mike you might poll people about what you refer to as local survivors. Which could get certain other people upset, for exactly the same reason you are currently upset. That each particular philosophy wants to claim the word local, for their own reasons. My view is, it's just a word. It can be delineated by context. They will use the word in their context and will be understood. You will use it in your context and also be understood. The black bee people are very committed to their cause, and getting a written lecture from you about your "productive self-sufficient stock - bees that don't need treating or mollycoddling", will not change their world view, I suspect you will have to live with their survey.


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## jadebees (May 9, 2013)

There are feral black bees here ,in rural eastern Arizona. High plains, high altitude Pinyon/Juniper ecosystem.Some year I'll catch a colony. They are large too. Not typical of this area.


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## jadebees (May 9, 2013)

I did get a hive of those black native bees this year, nearly all are black with 3 grey stripes. 20 % are all black. An old rancher told me his grandfather had some like that 70 yrs ago. They are mean as hell, very small, more runny than most africanised bees, and very quik to get angry, if the box is opened. Lift the lid, 100's of runners! They have all the bad habits people breed out of bees! Thats probably why they still survive out here. This area has large areas of unicorporated land, and deserted praries.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>They have all the bad habits people breed out of bees! Thats probably why they still survive out here. 



>An old rancher told me his grandfather had some like that 70 yrs ago. 

If you watch this video of Dr. Erikson (for some reason this isn't in the menus that I can find on the revamped beeuntoothers.com site):
http://vimeo.com/19816966

At 3:10 he starts talking about wild bees. At 3:30 he starts to talk specifically about bees in Arizona and describes them as living "mostly in ground holes" and being "smaller bees." There is no mention in the entire video of Africanized bees. Erikson has been in Arizona at the bee lab studying bees (and apparently feral bees as well) for many years. So I would guess the old rancher is correct.


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

Sounds like that survey was very carefully crafted to produce certain results that support someone's agenda. Then the results will be paraded around as "truth". Political decisions based on poor use of science and flawed surveys designed to fit their agenda is how it works these days.


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## jadebees (May 9, 2013)

The survey was in the UK, on old type bees. I wonder what they'd make of black bees on another continent, in high desert mountains. Those conditions are as far from merry old England as they could be. & about 5000 miles away, too. -M.B., thank you for the video link.


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