# PSA: Inspect your suit! And Dadant replacement veils?



## IAmTheWaterbug (Jun 4, 2014)

Two weeks ago I forgot to fully zip my suit, and 3 bees from my very hot hive got inside my veil. One stung my eyebrow:










but I was able to get the other 2 out gracefully.

So I thoroughly laundered my suit, including the fencing veil, to get rid of any lingering pheromones. Today I suited up and made darn sure that it was fully zipped. Some of the stitching around the velcro patch at the neck was loose, so I put 3 strips of duct tape on that. 

Ta da! Only 2 bees inside my veil today! And one of them stung the same eyebrow.

I was bewildered as to how they could have gotten inside, and after I got everything put away I inspected my veil. The mesh is coming apart in several places, and there are at least 3 bee-sized openings in it. 

My suit is only 3 years old, and I'm not out there every day (I have only a few colonies), but I have put the veil through the washing machine several times (though not the dryer). I think I've concluded that that's a very bad idea, and that in the future I should hand-wash my veil. 

More importantly, I need to inspect my suit's integrity on a regular basis. 

Does anyone know the best way to get a replacement veil? Does Dadant sell them separately from the suits? Are other brands compatible? I'm thinking not, because the zippers need to be the exact same size and length, but maybe someone else has done it. My suit is the V01180XL DADANT POLYESTER/COTTON ZIPPER SUIT - XLarge.


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

When you said in the other thread that you had a date tonight, I started to tell you we needed to see a picture of her, but after seeing your picture all swelled up, if she's attracted to you looking like that, we'll just skip the photos.  LOL

I bought a replacement veil for mine, but it's not a Dadant, so that's no help either...

Black sewing thread and a needle is good to make a repair with.


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

After washing my bee jacket with fencing veil I inspected it but the act of putting it on made it tear the veil in several spots. (same day)
Imagine my surprise when I had bees inside with me. Got inside quickly and took it off. 
I had to inspect bees asap so I went to Home Depot and got a window screen repair kit. It was not easy sewing in new screen with the antique singer sewing machine but I went on with inspecting the same day. Was less than ten bucks. New jacket is around $60. 
My jacket is getting old and propolis stained but as long as the zippers work I'm going to use it. 
Washing the jacket with the veil on is a mistake but the zippers (two) are arranged where it's not removable. That's a design flaw and I assume it's all bee jackets. True or false?


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## Chris G (Feb 26, 2017)

My bee jacket isn't from Dadants but it clearly states on the tag to remove veil and hand wash it.


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## NCbeek (Mar 23, 2011)

My veil would rip small holes whenever I put it in the washer. I hand wash it now. There is a window screen repair kit that has a sticky side. Cut to fit and stick it over the hole and works great.


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## IAmTheWaterbug (Jun 4, 2014)

Brad Bee said:


> When you said in the other thread that you had a date tonight, I started to tell you we needed to see a picture of her, but after seeing your picture all swelled up, if she's attracted to you looking like that, we'll just skip the photos. LOL.


Yeah, if she survives a date with Sloth, she's a keeper!












> Black sewing thread and a needle is good to make a repair with.


If I'd just damaged one portion of it I'd just sew it up. But I'm afraid that the hot water has made all the mesh brittle. There are holes in several places. Even if I were to sew them all up, I just wouldn't trust it, and I need to have a reliable suit for this requeening procedure.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

IAmTheWaterbug said:


> I was bewildered as to how they could have gotten inside,,,,, but I have put the veil through the washing machine several times (though not the dryer). I think I've concluded that that's a very bad idea, and that in the future I should hand-wash my veil.


Mine came with instructions to HAND WASH the veil (never machine wash)......


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## IAmTheWaterbug (Jun 4, 2014)

aunt betty said:


> After washing my bee jacket with fencing veil I inspected it but the act of putting it on made it tear the veil in several spots. (same day)
> Imagine my surprise when I had bees inside with me. Got inside quickly and took it off.
> I had to inspect bees asap so I went to Home Depot and got a window screen repair kit. It was not easy sewing in new screen with the antique singer sewing machine but I went on with inspecting the same day. Was less than ten bucks. New jacket is around $60.
> My jacket is getting old and propolis stained but as long as the zippers work I'm going to use it.
> Washing the jacket with the veil on is a mistake but the zippers (two) are arranged where it's not removable. That's a design flaw and I assume it's all bee jackets. True or false?


My Dadant veil is definitely removable. The two zippers are opposite genders, so it comes apart with some fiddling. If your zippers look like mine you may want to try removing yours again:



















I have several other suits, but on two of them (youth suits) the veils are not removable. On my 3rd suit the veil is removable, but the zippers are the opposite gender of my Dadant's, so I can't transplant it.


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## IAmTheWaterbug (Jun 4, 2014)

aunt betty said:


> After washing my bee jacket with fencing veil I inspected it but the act of putting it on made it tear the veil in several spots. (same day)





NCbeek said:


> My veil would rip small holes whenever I put it in the washer. I hand wash it now.





Chris G said:


> My bee jacket isn't from Dadants but it clearly states on the tag to remove veil and hand wash it.





snl said:


> Mine came with instructions to HAND WASH the veil (never machine wash)......


The jury is unanimous!


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## Eikel (Mar 12, 2014)

Dang Waterbug, after the first one I'd have thought you'd have learned to duck.


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## Bdfarmer555 (Oct 7, 2015)

Mine came from blue sky, had to replace the veil. As I took it off one day, I was talking and not paying attention and bumped the smoker. Instantly melted an inch hole in front of my right eye. 

Drove me crazy looking around that piece of duck tape till the new one arrived. Lol


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## BadBeeKeeper (Jan 24, 2015)

Bdfarmer555 said:


> ...I was talking and not paying attention and bumped the smoker. Instantly melted an inch hole in front of my right eye.
> 
> Drove me crazy looking around that piece of duck tape till the new one arrived. Lol


Hahaha, I was re-lighting the smoker and lit the veil up, for some reason I was under the impression that it was made of a metallic material...when it flashed a hole I realized that that was not correct. I just deal with the duct tape, I'm too cheap to buy a whole new hood just for that.


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

I want to know how you've kept it that white after 3 years. I started with a cotton suit but bought a ventilated jacket at the start of my 2nd year, so it's 3 years old now. I wash it twice a season and even put bleach in with it last month when I washed it. It stopped being white a long time ago and would barely pass for Khaki now.


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

You all have listened to me natter on about how much I love my bees and I always go the extra mile to care for them, right? 

You would think I am a complete hypocrite if you saw me when a bee gets under my veil because I don't mess around trying to save it from getting entangled in my waist long hair. I simply smack it to death and put us both out of misery. 

I wear very fragile lightweight glasses with cable temples and getting them safely off my head, and extracting the bee is more than I can manage. And more than once I have dropped the glasses on the ground and then i wind up on stepping on them because I'm blind as bat without them. 

So, now you know my price: if it means risking a several hundred dollar replacement bill for eyewear, vs. the bee's life, well, I confess my checkbook wins.

The obvious solution for the handwash-only veil problem is pretty straightforward. First, the veils' stiffeners should be removable and held in place in channels like those commonly used in millinery and corsets. Second, after removing the boning, you should slip the veil into a mesh lingerie washing bag to protect it from the garments' big zipper-teeth. Then both parts could be machine laundered together.

Enj.


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## IAmTheWaterbug (Jun 4, 2014)

Brad Bee said:


> I want to know how you've kept it that white after 3 years. I started with a cotton suit but bought a ventilated jacket at the start of my 2nd year, so it's 3 years old now. I wash it twice a season and even put bleach in with it last month when I washed it. It stopped being white a long time ago and would barely pass for Khaki now.


That's the back my neck. The front is a totally different color


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## max2 (Dec 24, 2009)

Washing the jacket with the veil on is a mistake but the zippers (two) are arranged where it's not removable. That's a design flaw and I assume it's all bee jackets. True or false?[/QUOTE]

They had to put the zippers on so I would assume that they can also be removed.
I sell beesuits and often have people ringing me about how to remove the veil. Simple - move both zippers to one side and they will slide off. To re-attach after hand-wash reverse.


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

My veils, on all my jackets, all zip completely off.

Enj.


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

I want you to look closely at this zipper. See the "stop"? 
Wish you were right but you're not. 
If not for that stop I'd have lost the zipper pull a long time ago. 
To get it off I'd need to take my zipper to the grinder or use a file. 







The opposite side has a pinch-on stop. If I want to remove the veil I'd have to remove the pinch and then reinstall it with plyers later.
This is not my first rodeo and have repaired zippers before. It's not impossible but not as simple as you think.





Here is the zipper stop. To get the zipper off I'd need to either cut it off or pry it open with tiny plyers or a pair of diagonal cutters (dikes). That little stop thing is the key to getting the zipper slides off and how to get the veil off my jacket.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

I have two suits. both ventilated. The screen material in my veil is different than the veil of my daughters suit. hers was a stiffer material and brittle. it got holes I it in the first season. We went to Mann lake for a replacement. not all veil screen material is equal. Had nothing to do with being washed. it had to do with anywhere the mesh creased it broke.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

aunt betty said:


> Washing the jacket with the veil on is a mistake but the zippers (two) are arranged where it's not removable. That's a design flaw and I assume it's all bee jackets. True or false?


I thought my vented suit's veil wasn't removable, but eventually it got so filthy the bathtub soak wasn't going to work, and I wasn't willing to tear up the veil in the washer, so I went to Youtube. It is difficult but YES it is removable. See if this video link works: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cw8Ind95_xc

Note, 30 seconds, no english, a picture is worth 1000 words, worked for me.


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

I take my veil off to wash mine, but I have read that you can fold the veil down inside the suit and zip the suit closed and wash it. That does make sense, I just haven't tried it.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

depends on your washer. Fancy new no agitator front loader, sure. My washer with center agitator would still tear up the veil / framing


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## IAmTheWaterbug (Jun 4, 2014)

Bees inside my veil.
A sting is coming, but when?
Peace is hard to find.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

aunt betty said:


> I want you to look closely at this zipper. See the "stop"?
> Wish you were right but you're not.
> If not for that stop I'd have lost the zipper pull a long time ago.
> To get it off I'd need to take my zipper to the grinder or use a file.
> ...


Looking at these photos and if the two small ones are of your veil. I say the veil comes off. Bring both pulls to the end in your top photo. one side will slide free just like the sipper on your coat. Both slides have to be at that end for it to release though. First slide closes the zipper second opens it again and allows it to slide out. It sides through both pulls at once.


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

Aunt betty, that veil comes off. You zipper looks EXACTLY like mine. You have to get both pull tabs around to the side with those solid metal pieces on it. I'm no zipper authority, I don't know what they are called. When you push both zipper pulls together, at the end, the zipper will slip out of the pulls. I don't think I would have ever figured out how to take mine off if I hadn't seen a youtube video. It has to be EXACTLY right to come out and go back in, but it can be done and it really isn't hard, just have to line everything up just right.

EDIT TO ADD: Mine has a metal zipper, like yours. I can't find the video I watched a couple years ago, but this one shows basically how it's done. It's not near as descriptive as the one I originally saw. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cw8Ind95_xc


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## whiskers (Aug 28, 2011)

If a replacement veil is not available I bet you that most competent seamstress/tailors can disassemble it, replace the screening and sew it back together using the original zippers.
Bill


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## IAmTheWaterbug (Jun 4, 2014)

IAmTheWaterbug said:


> If I'd just damaged one portion of it I'd just sew it up. But I'm afraid that the hot water has made all the mesh brittle. There are holes in several places. Even if I were to sew them all up, I just wouldn't trust it, and I need to have a reliable suit for this requeening procedure.


I tried sewing up all the holes in the veil, but I gave up after 20 minutes. There are just too many holes.

I have ordered a replacement veil for Dadant, but they're back-ordered, with no estimated ship date.

I really needed to install two queens, so I used my "cheap" suit that I normally use for visitors. The velcro over the zipper closings isn't nearly as good as on my Dadant suit. I was fine until I opened the stack of 3 mediums, and then I was completely covered with bees, and a couple of them got inside. I got stung on the back of my head, which is far better than on my eyebrow. But that's 3 weeks in a row that I've been stung inside my suit.

And whenever I get bees inside my suit I lose my head completely, and it's really hard to focus on what needs to get done. I'd planned on going through the 3 mediums, frame by frame, to kill the queen, but I just didn't have the guts to go through it. I was able to split it into 3, so in a few days I'll see if I can go through those single mediums without getting stung.

I could really use a reliable bee suit right about now.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

For holes in the screen hood, go to the hardware store and get those nylon "screen window patches." Stick right on, work like a charm.


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## Hoot Owl Lane Bees (Feb 24, 2012)

If you have someone who can sew, get a piece of window screen and replace the screening on the one with the holes.
I was given one 2 years ago and my daughter swapped it for me.
My son had it on the other day and said the screen looked funny.
It had been put in the dryer and melted a little.
No holes though, because he SWELLS big time.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

I am not so sure it was the washing that made the screen brittle. The screen in my daughters veil came brittle. It was more of a plastic mesh then the fiberglass mesh of my suit. On another issue with screen material. the fiberglass mesh of my veil tends to fade to grey or even white with time as it does it gets harder to see through. Black is easier to see through by the way. So I took a permanent marker and dyed it back to black. worked just fine.


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## IAmTheWaterbug (Jun 4, 2014)

enjambres said:


> My veils, on all my jackets, all zip completely off.


Here's a follow-up on this:

1) My embrittled veil from my Dadant suit is free to a good home. Just pay UPS shipping, and you can have it. You'll want to replace the veil, because it's been machine-washed, twice, and the mesh is falling apart, but the rest of the veil is solid. It fits a V01180XL DADANT POLYESTER/COTTON ZIPPER SUIT - XLarge.

2) I'm still puzzled as to how to get the veils off of my two NewBee suits from Blue Sky Bee Supply.

Unlike my Dadant suits, the veil has one continuous zipper, without the "opposite genders" meeting in the middle:










And here's the front:










The one possibility is that the very end of the zipper has a beveled edge:










So if it weren't attached to the other side, I could slide it off the top by twisting it at the end (I know; sorta hard to visualize unless you have it in your hands).


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Looks to me like both zippers come off the same end. The longer ends are the starters and the short ends are the stops. One zipper will have to be put on backwards for it to work.


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## IAmTheWaterbug (Jun 4, 2014)

JWPalmer said:


> Looks to me like both zippers come off the same end. The longer ends are the starters and the short ends are the stops. One zipper will have to be put on backwards for it to work.


inch:inch:inch:

I was trying the wrong end. It comes off fine on the correct end:


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## frustrateddrone (Jan 31, 2015)

"The Ultra Breeze" machine wash and hand wash the veil. I have been stung 1 time on the outter bicep. Considering I have had a Africanized bee hive, I like the suit. I keep stock of VHS crossed with open bred queen that have a 50 to 70% Africanized traits. Pretty aggressive, but manageable for myself. 
For me, if a hive is aggressive, you have to dress for it. That meaning duct tape on all points of possible entry. Leg blouse where the boots meet, zipper closures and have a known safety zone to go to. I also know where a bottle of dish soap is and the ice chest is to make soapy water if needed. All about being prepared and safety.


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## IAmTheWaterbug (Jun 4, 2014)

IAmTheWaterbug said:


> I have ordered a replacement veil for Dadant, but they're back-ordered, with no estimated ship date.


I ended up buying a V01180XXL because those were in stock, but the replacement veils weren't. It worked fine for the rest of the season. And then the replacement veil arrived. So now I have an extra bee suit for XL visitors.

The old, busted veil is free to a good home:










Just PM me for my email address and send me a prepaid UPS shipping label, and I'll put in a box.

BTW that hole is just one that I know of. The entire mesh has been degraded by several trips through the washing machine, so if you take this off my hands, you should replace the entire mesh, and not attempt to do spot fixes. Or else you will end up like me on the first page of this thread!


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