# Queen laying pattern



## rharlow (Mar 20, 2011)

How does one evaluate a queens laying pattern. Obviously, experience gives one a trained eye. Can the experts here take a look at the pictures at the link and give me their opinions on the laying pattern of the queen and the general nature of the frames. Queen is a Russian, as seen in several of the pictures. This inspection was 22 days after package installation, so I don't think any new bees are out, but should be any day since queen has been laying for approx 19 days. Would be great if anyone could give me some "experienced" thoughts of what they see. In my mind everything is looking ok, as I see uncapped and capped brood, pollen and capped honey, and found the queen (first time since installation), but what the heck do I know. Thanks for your time and thoughts!!! Pics at:

https://picasaweb.google.com/raharlow/HiveInspection5212011?authkey=Gv1sRgCKz34vXNp5iYLw&feat=directlink


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

She's laying well but the pattern isn't great. I'm seeing a mix in the age of the brood and wonder why. I see they are pollen hoarders and place pollen within the brood pattern. That may be one of the reasons for the spotty pattern. Have you seen any chalk? That could be another reason. I would like to see a photo of a frame of open brood to see how she is actually laying. Is there a nice progression in the age of the brood from egg to larva to pupa, and has she layed in almost every cell. Or, is she missing many cells as she hunts for a cell and comes back and comes back etc, leaving a larval pattern that has older and younger larvae and eggs all mixed up across the comb.


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## rharlow (Mar 20, 2011)

Thanks Mike. Haven't seen any chalk, but then again, I'm brand new and this was a package installed 3 weeks ago, so not sure how soon chalk can show up. But certainly no signs that I can tell. All frames had plastic foundation, so the bees had to build out from day one. Evidence had it that she was laying from day 4, so probably not a lot of places yet for her to lay. Could that be another reason for a little spotty?


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## honeyman46408 (Feb 14, 2003)

*Most* of the time the queen lays where the workers have cleaned cells for her so it is not *always *the queens fault


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## Rustyhawk (May 1, 2010)

I took this picture last week


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Now that's a poor Queen.  Show off. 

What breed and how old?


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## Rustyhawk (May 1, 2010)

Queen is from last year, daughter of an Italian Koehnen I believe. We are currently grafting from that queen.


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## MJuric (Jul 12, 2010)

That's WAY better than anything I have. Is that considered "Really good" or just "Average" 

All of my hives have some drone dispersed throughout and most are not as flat as that, but then it's all newly drawn and probably "Still in the works". 

I have some large areas that are similar to that but on average not nearly as nice as that.

~Matt


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## Rick 1456 (Jun 22, 2010)

Is not a "typical" frame, honey on the outside corners, pollen semicircular inside that, then the brood? Just asking cause that is my understanding. So, the workers play a part in that. Just an observation, my queens fills many frames on both sides like that before they swarm. Pattern is good,,,,numbers are better,,right?


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## heaflaw (Feb 26, 2007)

If the hive is hygenic the workers will remove brood infected with varroa. That would cause a pattern of lots of open cells even though the queen may have laid a good pattern. How do you guys take that into consideration?


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

heaflaw said:


> How do you guys take that into consideration?


That's one reason I want to see a frame of open brood.


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## heaflaw (Feb 26, 2007)

If you look at a frame of eggs, you could tell whether or not the queen is skipping cells. Keep checking to see when bees removed the larva. Is there a way to tell if larva was removed because of varroa or because the queen mated with her half-brother or some other reason? Dont they remove larva with varroa after capping?


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

heaflaw said:


> Is there a way to tell if larva was removed because of varroa or because the queen mated with her half-brother or some other reason? Dont they remove larva with varroa after capping?


Larvae aren't removed in VSH, pupae are. If you look at a frame of open brood...both eggs and larvae, you can see how the queen is laying...before anything effects the brood. You can see if she is missing many cells, or if eggs are failing to hatch. You can see if the pattern is solid and progressive in age from that being sealed to eggs.


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## rharlow (Mar 20, 2011)

My hive was a new package, all with plastic foundation, so the girls were immediately busy building out comb from day one. They were also out getting pollen and I was feeding, so how do they manage where to put stores, yet allow spots for queen to lay. Queen was released and laying within 3 days of installing package. Could this be the reason for a mixture in the frames, and would this get cleared up after the first couple of brood "hatches"?


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## heaflaw (Feb 26, 2007)

Thanks


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## delber (Dec 26, 2010)

Starting out myself I'm not concerned about how the "laying pattern" is because as you mentioned they don't have much drawn out yet. If the queen is laying in as many cells as she can I'd consider things going well. I recently installed a new queen in one nuc and put one frame of nectar / pollen along with some other frames of partially drawn comb. The queen searched and laid into every open cell that she could and the workers were transferring the pollen / nectar from the one frame into the edges and into drone comb. If you look at the pattern it's very spotty / crazy not because there's a problem, but because they're "working themselves out". I'd encourage you to give them time. (Just my new beek opinion.)


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