# Has anyone ever had a confontation with another beekeeper, especially sideline/comm ?



## Goldprospector (May 17, 2012)

The only thing that I have was a local beek called me a liar. He was asking for information on wiring frames and using a car battery to melt the wire into the foundation. I told him that I did not know how to do it because I have always used fishing line...even 20 years ago.
To make a short story shorter...he said that I was lying to him and I did not want to help him. He said he has never heard of fishing line in a hive.


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

I had one encounter with a commercial beekeeper. He was rude, crotchety, disrespectful, and mean from the second I said "Hello" to 30 seconds later when I said "Goodbye".


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## DC Bees (Sep 24, 2009)

Goldprospector said:


> The only thing that I have was a local beek called me a liar. He was asking for information on wiring frames and using a car battery to melt the wire into the foundation. I told him that I did not know how to do it because I have always used fishing line...even 20 years ago.
> To make a short story shorter...he said that I was lying to him and I did not want to help him. He said he has never heard of fishing line in a hive.


Goldprospector, I thought using fishing line was something new, I guess I was wrong.Do you use it for foundationless or with foundation if foundationless how do you run the line.I started to use it last year and found that the comb will sag when turned on it's side.


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## megakg9 (Aug 3, 2011)

When I was starting out I didn't know anyone into bees and I called a commercial beek near me I asked him if I could buy 4 queens or if he new were I could get some . He then bragged how he just bought 300 queens the day before and I told him if could sell me some and he said no and then I asked him were I could buy them and he just told me that no and to not bother him any more


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

In the past in California range wars, whole yards have been burned, hives picked up and unloaded in the freeway divider area, lids flipped off before a rainstorm, hives used for target practice, hives knocked over,hives sprayed with Raid, nails dumped in the road to the yard. I dont know if anyone was ever shot, but it would not surprise me.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

When I started beekeeping in 1972, I approached a commercial beek for a ride along. This turned into a part time job. He used me like a rented mule, got me stung til I looked like a woodtick and payed me very little. But I did meet people and learned what to buy and where to source both equipment and bees. I found that community of commercial guys to be just like everyone else. A couple cheated me, some mentored me and one moved into the area I was trying to fill with my own commercial operation around Lansford ND. Just sometimes curious if it is one affable commercial guy who is a regular here. BUT, I digress! People mostly treat you as you treat them.


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## RobWok (May 18, 2011)

Interesting. We had a couple people butt heads (almost literally) in a recent bee meeting. Beekeeping attracts all folks and that means it attracts all types of folks. Just like anything else. Even customers - as I take bees out of houses. Most were great, but I got this one guy.... he didn't want to do it right from the start, and I've been back at his house half a dozen times. He's recently widowed so I think he just has too much time on his hands, so I'm cutting him a break. 

On the other hand, I have a customer that won't return my calls, emails, or send my check. There was this awful situation where his contractor gave me the wrong age of the house, and the history on the hive, so I approached it from the angle based on his info. Gave him a written invoice, so when we had to change it when it was in the wall, I told him I'd keep the same price, but he had to drywall the opening. He was sticking to what I wrote, not our conversation and wanted a discount on the bill because his guy had to do drywall. My mistake for not getting the change order and approval in writing, but I thought he would appreciate the fact that I came out on the weekend to help him out. Now, it doesn't look like I'm even getting paid on the discounted job. However, his company manages over 400 old houses in the Richmond area. I can't wait until that call this summer when he needs bees removed and I happen to be the only guy that does it professionally. I'll be sweet as pie, but I'm going to make it painful. Double the normal price, and half in a check the day I show up. I was thinking about bringing his bees back to his office (actually an empty box with a little MP3 player inside playing buzzing sounds). "you didn't pay me for the bee removal, so I'm bringing your bees back. If you'll just hand me a cardboard box, I'll pour them in. I just need to take this nuc box back home with me...." 

rob
www.mongrelbees.com


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

I had heard about the only commercial beekeeper in my area and I drove into his yard and introduced myself. It was in a public area, no signs, no locked gates. He was amicable but as I left he stated he didn't like that I just dropped in on him without calling. I stated that I did not know who he was so that is why I just dropped in. I called him a few weeks later and he just flew off the handle, ranting and raving non-stop over the phone about how improper I had been to just drop in on him. I later heard he is a big dope smoker, and I know from others they often have paranoia and a persecution complex. Have only heard bad rumblings about him ever since.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

BeeGhost, why do you state disputes between commercial and sideliner,

you dont have to be one or the other to get into a dispute,
Id say most neighbouring beekeeper tend to show their finest charm towards eachother every once and a while. Beekeepers are very territorial


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## DC Bees (Sep 24, 2009)

odfrank said:


> I had heard about the only commercial beekeeper in my area and I drove into his yard and introduced myself. It was in a public area, no signs, no locked gates. He was amicable but as I left he stated he didn't like that I just dropped in on him without calling. I stated that I did not know who he was so that is why I just dropped in. I called him a few weeks later and he just flew off the handle, ranting and raving non-stop over the phone about how improper I had been to just drop in on him. I later heard he is a big dope smoker, and I know from others they often have paranoia and a persecution complex. Have only heard bad rumblings about him ever since.



Maybe he was growing some of that green corn in the area.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

I've heard stories from members here.... seems pretty brutal out there. Unless you're the land owner, I don't see how you have anything to say to anyone else putting bees there if everyone has permission. But, if I own the land and have my bees there and plant for them, I wouldn't like some other guy dropping a huge amount of hives on the property line trying to cash in on my hardwork.


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## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

Ian said:


> BeeGhost, why do you state disputes between commercial and sideliner,
> Beekeepers are very territorial


And that is why I mentioned sideliners and commercial guys, people with a lot of hives and a lot of vested intrest in getting the best land.

Back yard bee keepers or people that own their own land might only have to deal with bad neighbors, on the other hand, the "big guns" have to deal with each other doing things like what loggermike stated........land wars between the big guys.

Was more curious about the kind of tactics that are performed during these "wars" than anything, and Loggermike stated a lot, which is what I wanted to hear about!

I wasnt trying to point out a fight between commerical guys and sideliners, but more about disputes between commercial guys, or between sideliner guys..............or maybe in some cases between sideliners and commercial guys!


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## Markwell (Jan 17, 2013)

In my country the turf wars are mostly in the costal regions for some reason.


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

All this has the makings of a decent soap opera. It would be a darn sight more interesting than Downton Abbey.


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## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

Adrian Quiney WI said:


> All this has the makings of a decent soap opera. It would be a darn sight more interesting than Downton Abbey.


Im telling you Adrian, if "Honey Boo Boo" can get a second season, why wouldn't a true life show called "Hive Wars" make it! Kind of a mix between "Amish Mafia" and "Wicked Tuna"!! Even if events are staged (like most reality shows now) it could get the interest of all kinds of viewers, put the word out about beekeeping and make package producers and nuc suppliers and bee supply companies RICH!! I am seriously going to send a letter to TLC or Discovery Channel and have them check into it. Heck, if commercial/sideliner guys don't mind a few cameras in their faces they could make a little extra dough for being themselves!!


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

I knew it. You started this thread because you wanted ideas for a script. I'm with you. Now for a title. How about "Honey boo boozers" or "The Sting(er)" or "The life and times of Pollen Patty" or "Bottom bored?" or "Not your usual Swingers" or "The real queens of California". Possibilities are endless.


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## Davidnewbeeboxbuilder (Oct 6, 2012)

Ive heard of people moving there hives leaving liquid seven in honey water mix and people stealing lots of suppers. Doing the frame swap. And when i was first wanting to get started in bees commerical beek from a place in tennese know for chicken fights said hed set me up with as many swarms as i wanted he hust letem fly. Called and talked to him for a hour. Then wont never awnser As gain.


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## Davidnewbeeboxbuilder (Oct 6, 2012)

But another guy gave me two hives for free. To mee sideliners are usually more laid back. Commericals are ok and wanna bee's but broke commerical usually dontcare who they screw or shaft to get where they think they are going. I worked for a guy and helped him and did the hole slave and rob all day it was sour wood traded a nuk to him one suday no call no nothing came and got what we talked about and brought acolony of foagers. Ha.f'd mee but he already told me was wanting welp with hives u can guess what im ganna tell him


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## Flyer Jim (Apr 22, 2004)

:scratch:So BeeGhost, does this thread have anything to do with this thread http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...e-yard-today-and-boy-am-I-one-happy-beekeeper!! ? I thought you might be stepping on some toes out there. You'll find lots of toes to step on in the delta.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

BeeGhost said:


> Just curious what kind of "turf wars" happen between commercial or sideliner beekeepers! Also, how about under cutting prices to get pollination contracts?
> Just looking for some good stories whether you experienced it or have heard a good story on what happened to another beekeeper!


Why?


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

Good titles Adrian


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## Bee Bliss (Jun 9, 2010)

Call it.............. Going for the Gold!


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

I like it!


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## Maddox65804 (Dec 29, 2011)

When I first moved to Springfield, Missouri from Indiana, I worked for a supposedly commercial beekeeper here (he claims to run 700 hives, but has to buy 400 nucs every year to maintain that number). He threatened me physically if I ever told anyone about his beeyard locations or the fact that he puts hives on the Conservation Areas. Told me he would put Sevin in any of my hives that he found within 5 miles of his hives. 

Angriest person I every met. I only worked for him a short time but I still remember how people kept asking me "Wow, you're _still _working for him? No one has ever lasted this long." I was told he assaulted an 85 year old man who criticized his nucs (that was the straw that broke the camel's back and caused the store to cancel his contract despite years of open hostility towards the customers). He is the only person I've ever heard of who was kicked out of a bee club.

ON another note, I know of at least two states where there are multiple bee Associations because the beekeepers could not get along well enough to stay together in one club. So they split and compete against each other.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

I am part of a fish forum.
A garden forum
and 2 bee forums.
And beekeepers do seem to have more prominent "stingers".

Fish people are great and help each other. But then the odds of my aquarium fish invading someone else's aquarium are pretty low.

Aquarium services are sometimes like beekeepers. There are only so many tanks to take care of. we don't share well. (I share better than most, trying to get out of it.)


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## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> Why?


Just because, I remember when I first came onto this site one of the threads I read was talking about how some beekeepers would run over other beekeepers hives in the citrus orchards in Florida. And also about that poisoning of bees that happened there a well. The thing that got the wheels turning on this is seeing the hives starting to arrive for almond pollination, and how I am seeing adds on Craigslist for lower than the going price, basically cut throat stuff. Just curious is all. If you need more information, feel free to ask if this answer is not good enough for you. Better yet, PM me if you think I have left something out.


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## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

Flyer Jim said:


> :scratch:So BeeGhost, does this thread have anything to do with this thread http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...e-yard-today-and-boy-am-I-one-happy-beekeeper!! ? I thought you might be stepping on some toes out there. You'll find lots of toes to step on in the delta.


Not stepping on any toes out here, I already made that clear with the farmer that if there is an issue I will move my bees. Not like I have the best spot on the entire 2500+ acres anyhow. The commercial guy that uses this guys land has been doing it for 20+ years I am told and he gets the yards on the flat land that is easy to get to, I get to use a place that is not quite as easy to get to and sure as heck would not get a large truck and trailer into. There was also another beekeeper that placed his hives on this land also, but from what I heard he wasn't respecting the land and was going to be asked to leave, but that is not my business, that's the farmers and I don't even know if it happened.

Im sure there are lots of toes to step on out here in the delta, and I don't plan on doing that at all, I am a small fish in the big sea. The only way I would go sideliner status is if I locked up some land that was all to myself. I don't see that happening out here as there are far stronger ties than what I have.

You guys sure like to assume a lot of things!!! If you want i'll start another thread on how to croche tea cozies if that makes you feel more secure about things....................just saying!! Oh ya, does my how to raise queens thread threaten anyone?? Hopefully OHB or other large queen breeders don't get offended or threatened when I start mass producing 20 queens or so a year, I might just put them out of business!!

I love having to explain myself!!! I'll be sure to return the favor!!:lookout:


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

BeeGhost said:


> Just curious what kind of "turf wars" happen between commercial or sideliner beekeepers! Also, how about under cutting prices to get pollination contracts?
> Just looking for some good stories whether you experienced it or have heard a good story on what happened to another beekeeper!



Not sure if many people have a big issue with price competition........ Rarely an issue in the long run cause the guy who undercuts everyone, especially dramatically usually gets out of the business from lack of capital fairly quickly. 

Regarding jumping on established yards that's a whole different story. AKA "let the buyer" beware as stated so adeptly in the third person by MR. Logger mike. Yard jumpers in this industry are / have been dealt with like claim jumpers in the 1850's. Most commercial guys don't mind if a hive or two steps in their zone by a hobbyist but beyond that problems often arise anytime someone steps on another guys long established territory.

Acknowledged in most places its legal to do so but patently unwise. 

There are two types of rules in all societies. The written ones and the unwritten ones. Most long established bee guys know the long established unwritten ones and follow them. Don't jump or steal another beeks yards!!!!!!!!!

Those who don't are shunned and are the folks who culminate their carrier as the person that everyone in the business avoids like a "friendly" lady with AIDS. Some times the "law breakers" face other "justice" as previously stated by the Logger whose "examples" are from an area I might call "turf war hell" from stories that come out of Northern California . Most good bee territory is long ago taken......A very long time ago at that. Many newbees think of this business as a free-for-all which it surely is not. 

If you decide to grow big be patient and buy someone out when they retire.... Especially if someone is leaving you hints that you are in the "wrong" place. Prudent judiciousness will save you time and heartache if nothing else. 

With all the technology today...... With Satellites, Remote control aircraft, Regular planes, Spy cameras, gps units.... Its fairly easy to find a jumper for those willing to invest the time to "secure" their beespace. Those who are known to bee "wise" in finding new yards wisely utilize the same resources and make sure they aren't in the wrong spot before the put bees in that big "new" yard... be they new or old at this business.:thumbsup:

Don't expect that your hives will be Bee "GHOSTS" IN their new yards... Someone is already looking out for them before you even put them down. . Guaranteed. :shhhh:


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Very well said, Honey4 all. All the best territory was taken long ago in California.Over the years I managed to step on some toes , and got mine stepped on too! As a general rule, if it looks like a great bee location, it is already taken.


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## Markwell (Jan 17, 2013)

Beekeeping turf wars begin when beekeepers start using shanks instead of their normal beekeepers tools.


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

Markwell said:


> Beekeeping turf wars begin when beekeepers start using shanks instead of their normal beekeepers tools.


:scratch: Shanks ? :scratch:


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## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

Honey-4-all,

I appreciate your advise. I do believe that I am not cutting in on anyone by obtaining this spot. It isn't like this is a whim. This has been in the works for a few months, and I am quite sure the farmers I am dealing with have talked to the long time beekeeper, due to the questions that were asked of me when I met with the farmer to go to the location that I can place my hives. I was asked how many hives, my answer is no more than twenty, the number of hives I can fit on my 16' trailer. I also stated that they will always be on the trailer and not set on the ground, that way if I need to move them in a hurry, I can strap down, hook up and roll and be out in one trip. 

Now I havnt met the commercial guy yet, but I would like to. I am sure he is getting ready for almonds, but not positive. Actually, I don't even know how many hives this guy has, since the farmer actually has a guy come from Washington to pollinate his 600 acres of almonds. 

Im not out to cut anyones throat. Im not out to undercut someones honey prices to have the local health food store carry my honey. And I sure don't plan on getting big enough to have to warrant buying specialized equipment.

If any of you on here have hives in the Manteca/Tracy/Lathrop area..........feel free to PM me and I will tell you exactly where I plan to put my bee trailer. Or if you know the person in those areas, or people in those areas, again, feel free to PM me.

And another question, why would a commercial guy care about someone with 20 hives compared to their..........who knows how many hives? 

Looks like I have ruffled some feathers, didn't mean to by any means, just basically found a place to keep my HOBBY close to home and now I feel like I am being treated like a claim jumper.


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## sfisher (Sep 22, 2009)

How does someone define someones beespace, in miles or acres.


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## Markwell (Jan 17, 2013)

Honey-4-All said:


> :scratch: Shanks ? :scratch:


A shank is a crudely, improvised knife (also called a shiv).
It was a joke, dear sir.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

BeeGhost said:


> Just because, I remember when I first came onto this site one of the threads I read was talking about how some beekeepers would run over other beekeepers hives in the citrus orchards in Florida. And also about that poisoning of bees that happened there a well. The thing that got the wheels turning on this is seeing the hives starting to arrive for almond pollination, and how I am seeing adds on Craigslist for lower than the going price, basically cut throat stuff. Just curious is all. If you need more information, feel free to ask if this answer is not good enough for you. Better yet, PM me if you think I have left something out.


Thanks. Just curious about where you were coming from.

Turf wars happen. I imagine in all industries.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

BeeGhost said:


> Honey-4-all,
> 
> I appreciate your advise. I do believe that I am not cutting in on anyone by obtaining this spot. It isn't like this is a whim. This has been in the works for a few months, and I am quite sure the farmers I am dealing with have talked to the long time beekeeper, due to the questions that were asked of me when I met with the farmer to go to the location that I can place my hives. I was asked how many hives, my answer is no more than twenty, the number of hives I can fit on my 16' trailer. I also stated that they will always be on the trailer and not set on the ground, that way if I need to move them in a hurry, I can strap down, hook up and roll and be out in one trip.
> 
> ...



Correct me if I am wrong, but, it looks like you are planning on setting 20 hives in or adjacent to an almond grove perminently. Is that right? A grove that a commercial beekeeper gets paid to pollinate? If that's accurate, that 20 fewer hives which the grove owner needs to pay for. So, in effect, you are taking money out of someones pocket, if that is so.

Also, I wouldn't think that having a yard perminently established in an almond grove would be a good idea regarding hive health, what w/ all the spraying which will be going on there.


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## GLOCK (Dec 29, 2009)

Markwell said:


> Beekeeping turf wars begin when beekeepers start using shanks instead of their normal beekeepers tools.


Tonight on fox ! I know i would watch / With all the reality shows out there it may just last a year!
Fight on beekeepers .


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## RichardsonTX (Jul 3, 2011)

I'm new enough to beekeeping that I haven't run into any issues with my hives being too close to another beek's hives but since I'm planning on growing my own beekeeping operation I've often wondered about whether those issues are taking place out there. I do feel that individual's putting in new yards should be respectful of other beek's established yard locations. If they are aware of another beek's large bee yard being close by then they should act smart about their decisions. Putting in another yard too close to an existing yard only causes problems for both beeks at a time when the original yard was already there and not having a problem. Having said that, I also understand that what is one person's opinion of the nectar and pollen providing capacity of an area is not the same as another person's opinion.


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## Bee Bliss (Jun 9, 2010)

I am curious why some beeks seem to think that a landowner/farmer doesn't have any rights and seems to be left out of the equation? (Not talking about going against contracts) What about land that is sold or inherited by family? What about the fact that there can be multiple owners all with their own acreage? Farmer A can have hives and Farmer B cannot? Messing with someone else's property (bees and equipment or even the land) to cause damage and loss of bees is dishonest and another form of stealing. That's what it boils down to. Be gentle.....:lookout:


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## Markwell (Jan 17, 2013)

Bee Bliss said:


> I am curious why some beeks seem to think that a landowner/farmer doesn't have any rights and seems to be left out of the equation? (Not talking about going against contracts) What about land that is sold or inherited by family? What about the fact that there can be multiple owners all with their own acreage? Farmer A can have hives and Farmer B cannot? Messing with someone else's property (bees and equipment or even the land) to cause damage and loss of bees is dishonest and another form of stealing. That's what it boils down to. Be gentle.....:lookout:


Quite. There is thin line between justice and madness. I don't know what i would do if someone threatened my bees.


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## dixiebooks (Jun 21, 2010)

I'd have to agree with BB. Been thinking of chiming in but kind of bit my tongue.

I recall as a teenager watching a couple of movies that had something to do with inner-city street gangs. I thought then and still do that the idea of "my turf" is ridiculous. It's not "your turf". A beekeeper, commercial or otherwise, can sign a contract with whoever he wishes to place bees on that farmer's property. If the contract gives him exclusivity, then OK, no one else may place hives on THAT PROPERTY. But what if I want to put hives in across the street that is someone else's property? Is that the "turf" of the first beek? I call BS. If it looks like a good place to put my bees and that property owner gives his permission, I'll go for it. Now, in making the determination that it is or is not a good location, I will obviously take into account known existing apiaries in the area. (which is one reason I wish states would have a site where you could identify locations of current apiaries.) Existence of another apiary would greatly diminish the attractiveness of an area. Even so, if the amount of forage is sufficient for a thousand colonies and a commercial beek has 200 in that area, then I am not going to pass up the opportunity to put in my dozen or so hives. I'll likely also take the opportunity to double the number of swarm traps.

I'm sure I am about to get stuff thrown at me and take some of the flak off Bee Bliss. That's OK. I'm thick-skinned.

-james


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## Markwell (Jan 17, 2013)

dixiebooks said:


> I'm thick-skinned.
> 
> -james


That must come in handy with beekeeping .


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

BeeGhost said:


> it could get the interest of all kinds of viewers, put the word out about beekeeping and make package producers and nuc suppliers and bee supply companies RICH!!


Please, the only people getting rich are the producers, the actors get famous (usually short lived). Ask Dave Yuuuup.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Honey-4-All said:


> Don't jump or steal another beeks yards!!!!!!!!!


How does one do that? Don't you have contracts with the land owners and if the land owner chooses someone else what recourse do you have?


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> Turf wars happen. I imagine in all industries.


Mafia, maybe. In a free market capitalistic society? Isn't that competition, normal business practice?

If commercial beeks want protected areas they should form an association and fight for legislation and registration for their behalf. Oh yeah, they should pay for it also.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Brian, w/ only your home yd and limited number of yrs beekeeping you don't really know the etiquette of outyards amongst commercial beekeepers.


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## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> Correct me if I am wrong, but, it looks like you are planning on setting 20 hives in or adjacent to an almond grove perminently. Is that right?


Nope, not correct. The farmers almond orchards are probably atleast 10 miles or so away, on the South side of town. Where I am putting my hives is on a levy of a hyacinth choked slough. As the bee flies there are alfalpha fields, corn, wild black berries and a safflower field, plus wild flowers and such in the unfarmed areas. I currently only have 6 hives as of now. The most I will have in this area is 20, basically what I can fit on my 16' trailer. If I did do pollination some year, it would be for a small farmer, something like 10-15 acres. Im not hanging with the big boys.

I talked to the farmer again today to see if I could get the beekeepers name that puts his hives on his place and then I called and left a message with the people. The farmer said he was going to put him on another 450 acre piece of property far from where I am anyhow, but to show respect, I called the beekeeper anyhow.

Waiting back on the phone call now.


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

Acebird said:


> How does one do that? Don't you have contracts with the land owners and if the land owner chooses someone else what recourse do you have?


There is commercial beekeeping and there is hobbyist beekeeping. If you enter the ranks of the former you will surely hear of incidents like Logger stated if you listen attentively. 

This thread started was by a guy who is small and has ambitions to grow. No one has a problem with that especially myself since I started with one swarm. 

As logger recapped " all the good bee country is long taken". I just wanted to give beeghost a realistic picture as he will find out soon enough considering his location. I ain't deaf. There are many yards in his area that are third generation. (Not mine by the way) Some have been used for over 100 years by the same family or string of beekeepers from buyouts.

Yards get utilized to the max if not beyond in all good bee country. The quantity placed per yard varies depending on the conditions each year. When someone steps on top of another yard its just like putting to many cows on one pasture. Bees are no different in that respect. It caused range wars in the old west and is still more prevalent in the bee industry today than most folks openly acknowledge.

The theory is actually pretty simple if you think about it. Yard jumpers cost money. Feed, either by flower or purchased from Mann lake is not free. When expenses increase people get nervous. When people get nervous they usually act accordingly. Therefore the prudent don't make people nervous if they dont want to get nervous themselves. BEE RESPECTFUL. or as other have said here "stay within the etiquette of outyards" 

I don't jump on my neighbors yards and they know I expect the same. With 50, 000 hives based within 40 miles of myself with almost every outfit having been run over 30 years if not way longer we keep it that simple. 

If Beeghost doesn't learn anything else from this thread he might want to consider: "Staying to yourself but helping each other out tends to work out quite well". Talking with the landowner as well as the other beeks on the place is a very good idea. Thats if you heed the "advice" your given. If you hear nothing back I would not move in. 

North of me, up towards logger( wont say how far) there's an outfit who is now putting 250+ hives in many a yard where once he barely had thirty long ago. Its a feed mill operation currently. Since his dad was in the business he knows that if he moves on top of someone else its going to easily cost him more than he will gain. Smart move cause I know the guys around him will quickly let him know if he strays. 

A couple of years back there was an ad or article in the ABJ about someones stack yard getting toasted while in the almonds or shortly thereafter in the Bakersfield area.The people pleaded ignorance. When I read the article I knew just like everyone other experienced "old" timer in this business that the "victim" who was here for the almond gold rush and most likely did something they should not have and got busted as a result. My guess is they "stole" someones space either ignorantly or on purpose. 

You may think it may be different where your from but that's not likely as heard from the behind the scene stories I hear around the country. That's if you eavesdrop at the right location.


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## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

Honey-4-All said:


> There are many yards in his area that are third generation. (Not mine by the way) Some have been used for over 100 years by the same family or string of beekeepers from buyouts.


Interesting to know. I have driven all over a lot of my area both in a truck and by boat and have seen a few different beekeepers hives over the last year. I have also seen the same yellow hives doing different pollinating contracts on what I think is peppers, but not sure. There is what appears to be a large yard probably at least 6-7 miles NW of where I will be.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> Brian, w/ only your home yd and limited number of yrs beekeeping you don't really know the etiquette of outyards amongst commercial beekeepers.


You are absolutely right Mark. But I do know that taking things in your own hands is criminal. Be it drug dealing, beekeeping or prostitution. Are you lumping commercial beekeeping in the category of thugs?
Reading many post here on Beesource I get the impression commercial beekeeping in the US is declining. What is wrong with new blood? How does somebody with 20 hives hurt someone with 1000 hives?
If it is all about hard labor and expertise, wouldn't you just laugh at them?


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Locations are a beemans most important asset. You can always get more bees, but good locations are hard to get and keep.I hate losing yards worse than anything.

That said , it sounds like you are on the right track with this, BeeGhost. Best of luck to you!


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## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

Thanks Mike!


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

BeeGhost said:


> Nope, not correct. The farmers almond orchards are probably atleast 10 miles or so away, on the South side of town. Where I am putting my hives is on a levy of a hyacinth choked slough. As the bee flies there are alfalpha fields, corn, wild black berries and a safflower field, plus wild flowers and such in the unfarmed areas. I currently only have 6 hives as of now. The most I will have in this area is 20, basically what I can fit on my 16' trailer. If I did do pollination some year, it would be for a small farmer, something like 10-15 acres. Im not hanging with the big boys.
> 
> I talked to the farmer again today to see if I could get the beekeepers name that puts his hives on his place and then I called and left a message with the people. The farmer said he was going to put him on another 450 acre piece of property far from where I am anyhow, but to show respect, I called the beekeeper anyhow.
> 
> Waiting back on the phone call now.


Thanks. I was pretty sure I misunderstood your details. It sounds to me like you are going about this in a cautious and respectful manner.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

If we go WAAAAAy back, before Sulfa was invented for AFB, it was very important to keep all beeyards 4 miles apart to prevent transference of disease. The only cure at that time was fire.
This helped to establish the idea of 'Turf" in many of the Oldtimer's mind, and is often still alive today.

Crazy Roland


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## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

Thanks Mark, I don't want to ruffle any feathers of fellow beekeepers, especially those who's living depends on the little insects.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Roland said:


> If we go WAAAAAy back, before Sulfa was invented for AFB, it was very important to keep all beeyards 4 miles apart to prevent transference of disease. The only cure at that time was fire.
> This helped to establish the idea of 'Turf" in many of the Oldtimer's mind, and is often still alive today.
> 
> Crazy Roland


Good perspective Roland.


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## doc25 (Mar 9, 2007)

Acebird said:


> Reading many post here on Beesource I get the impression commercial beekeeping in the US is declining.


I'm willing to bet it's the amount of beekeepers that's declining not hive numbers. Agriculture is/has turned into big business. Small guys really aren't encouraged to grow, as new laws and regulations come into effect the small or starter beek who can't afford to build or maintain gov approved honey houses etc. fall by the wayside. The big guys have to keep getting bigger and the small guys have to try and jump the gap.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Both doc, both. More hives in fewer hands and a decline in the total number. Also more small scale beekeepers and sideliners. And, because of our increasing population less available land to put apiaries on.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

I don't know about LESS beekeepers???? There are alot more 1-5 hive beekeepers in the southern part of our territory, and also alot more AFB. Coincidence?

Crazy Roland


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## doc25 (Mar 9, 2007)

I was not including the 1-5 hive beekeepers in my statement but I'm guessing there are probably a lot more of those these days then there were in the past (**** disposable income), can't help you on the AFB.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> And, because of our increasing population less available land to put apiaries on.


Really, People are moving back to the Cities. Jobs are gone in the rural areas.


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## beeznbeaks (Jan 25, 2013)

That's a Great story. LOL


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## Davidnewbeeboxbuilder (Oct 6, 2012)

Could u imagine two old fat guys in white bee suits in front of a magristrate all bloodyed up sayen thats what u get for trying to put ur hives in my honey hole. I seen load my swarm. It was in my bee yard. u ant no better than ur bees just a low down robber. And how about those 8 talll hive bodies fulla honey.those are my dead outs with used equipment!... "oh" ....so u only got 2 hives? Duh. 
....................... well u wanna get a cup of coffee when we get out.


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## bigbill (Sep 27, 2009)

back to what beegost was asking for / 20 years ago or so a commercial guy found another commercial guy dropped a load exactly on the firsts location right down to the water barrel he took his cat over there dug a hole an buried every last box needless to say it can get rough out there messing with the wrong guys. :lookout:


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