# Refractometer sold by Brushy Mountain



## S&H (Feb 25, 2010)

It looks identical to the one I received from Mann Lake.

It's simple to operate; I like it.


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## Larry W (Aug 28, 2010)

I like mine also, easy to use - but I see that there are also digital ones available.


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## Fuzzy (Aug 4, 2005)

Spend a buck or two and call Brushy. Have someone there read you the specs.


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## stoweski (Apr 1, 2008)

Works fine. Easy to calibrate, easy to use. 

Brix scale range - 58% - 90%
Baume scale range - 38'-43'
Water scale range - 12% - 27%

Resolution for brix/baum/water - ~.50%/~.50'/~1.0%
Accuracy for brix/baum/water - ~.50%/~.50%/~1.0%

ATC compensation range from 10'C to 30'C (50'F to 86'F)

yes, ' is degrees.

Flexible plastic carrying case comes with specs, instructions for use, and calibration, refractometer, eyedropper, calibration screwdriver, calibration fluid, and soft cloth.

Going to try it out on my maple syrup in March. Hopefully it'll serve dual purpose. 

Keith


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## bmcmahon (Apr 23, 2010)

Fuzzy said:


> Spend a buck or two and call Brushy. Have someone there read you the specs.


I did -- before I posed the question here. They were out of stock and specifications were not available. The big thing I wanted to know was % margin of error. I had seen some that were inexpensive but with a 1% margin of error and I want something more accurate.


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## bmcmahon (Apr 23, 2010)

stoweski said:


> Brix scale range - 58% - 90%
> Baume scale range - 38'-43'
> Water scale range - 12% - 27%
> 
> ...


Thanks much Keith. That's just what I was looking for!


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## Fuzzy (Aug 4, 2005)

First, if they were out of stock there is no guarantee that the next shipment will be the same piece of equipment. Since Brushy is not currently listing any specs in their catalog they are under no obligation.

I only mention this because a buddy purchased one from them and it was NOT the same as the one Kieth listed. 

So, be cautious -- Fuzzy


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## bmcmahon (Apr 23, 2010)

I decided to go with one that had a .2% margin of error for about $100. From what I could see it was made by the same company that Keith's was from (they had another unit that exactly matched the specs Keith gave). 

Keith's specs match this item: RHB-90ATC (his kit included calibration fluid which this does not)

I decided to go with this item: RHB-30ATC (this one includes calibration fluid)

Thanks again for the assist.


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## stoweski (Apr 1, 2008)

bmcmahon said:


> Keith's specs match this item: RHB-90ATC (his kit included calibration fluid which this does not)


Yes, that is the model of the one I have. 

Was free to me so I couldn't pass it up. 

Glad to help.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

bmcmahon said:


> I decided to go with this item: RHB-30ATC (this one includes calibration fluid)


I'd be really curious to see a side-by-side comparison of the 90ATC vs the 30ATC. Big price difference - hope they are honest and really give you what you're paying for.


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## Robbo (May 11, 2008)

Thanks for the thread guys - great info here - saves me researching!!


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## Fuzzy (Aug 4, 2005)

"I'd be really curious to see a side-by-side comparison of the 90ATC vs the 30ATC. Big price difference - hope they are honest and really give you what you're paying for."

What you are paying for is:

90ATC = +/- 1% accuracy for $30
30ATC = +/- .2% accuracy for $100

If you are in an area that produces 18-19% honey then the 90ATC is not accurate enough.


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## bmcmahon (Apr 23, 2010)

The proposed Standard of Identity for honey in New York State specifies that "Honey shall not contain more than 18.6 percent moisture content." 

So with the 90ATC which has a 1% resolution and a 1% +/- margin of error, you would need a measurement of 17% to insure that you were harvesting honey. 

With the 32ATC, which has a .1 resolution and a .2% +/- margin of error, a reading of 18.4 would be sufficient.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

Fuzzy said:


> What you are paying for is:
> 
> 90ATC = +/- 1% accuracy for $30
> 30ATC = +/- .2% accuracy for $100


Yes, of course, but that's not really what I was asking. My concern is: does the 30ATC REALLY give you the 0.2% accuracy? Or put differently, is the 30ATC just a re-badged 90ATC with a jacked up price. Or does the 90ATC give you better accuracy than the stated 1% in practice. Has anyone run a side-by-side comparison of the two. It would be easy if you had both units and a couple (or more) different calibration fluids.


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## Fuzzy (Aug 4, 2005)

Astrobee,

Since the 90ATC only has graduations in 1% increments I don't know how you would try to interpolate anything finer because the graduations are too closely spaced. The 30ATC has graduations in .1% increments allowing better interpolation. But, I've argued too much already. 

Good luck -- Fuzzy


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## bmcmahon (Apr 23, 2010)

AstroBee said:


> Yes, of course, but that's not really what I was asking. My concern is: does the 30ATC REALLY give you the 0.2% accuracy? Or put differently, is the 30ATC just a re-badged 90ATC with a jacked up price. Or does the 90ATC give you better accuracy than the stated 1% in practice. Has anyone run a side-by-side comparison of the two. It would be easy if you had both units and a couple (or more) different calibration fluids.


I haven't physically looked at the 90ATC but if the specification says it has a 1% resolution then you are not going to get readings any finer than a full percentage.


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## bmcmahon (Apr 23, 2010)

Fuzzy said:


> Astrobee,
> 
> Since the 90ATC only has graduations in 1% increments...


I guess we're on the same page.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

I'm certainly not arguing with anyone...just asked an honest question.

Let's be clear. If the instrument is broken out in 1 % percent increments then you simply do not read to the nearest whole increment. Instead you read to your best ability and interpret between graduated marks. Say, if the reading is 1/2 way between 18 and 19 then you can safely interpolate a reading of 18.5. So far, I've said nothing about the accuracy of the instrument. For a 1% accurate instrument then your 18.5 reading may be between 17.5 and 19.5. Now if the instrument had 0.1% graduated marks you're not necessarily better off unless the instrument has better accuracy. A finer scale and better accuracy are not necessarily linked. You could take the 0.1 scale of the 30 ATC and put it in the 90 ATC and you'll still have a 1% accurate instrument. One would hope that what separates the 30 ATC and 90 ATC is more than simply a better scale. The thing that would separate the two is fundamentally better optics. And this is the heart of my original question. Does the 30 ATC really have better optics and has anyone tried to validate the claims relative to the 90 ATC.


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

AstroBee said:


> .... You could take the 0.1 scale of the 30 ATC and put it in the 90 ATC and you'll still have a 1% accurate instrument. ...Does the 30 ATC really have better optics and has anyone tried to validate the claims relative to the 90 ATC.


It is probably good to test any instrument against others for purposes oif calibration, but to begin with a baseless assumption that a company might be committing fraud as the basis of the test is not something I would generally do.

But then again, I'm off to get gas for the car. On my way to work, Maybe I should stop at the lab and get the octane tested. I do spend far more on gasoline each year than I do on refractometers. after all. 

And just how accurate is that electric meter the utility company has on the side of my house?

Wayne


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

All the various things proposed in beekeeping to save a few bucks and I get singled out as hyper paranoid because I ask a simple question relative to stated accuracy claims of refractometers....wow!

Of course the Chinese would never do anything to defaud the US. Those incidents with pet food, kids toy, and drywall - that's all behind us now.

Forget I even asked.





waynesgarden said:


> It is probably good to test any instrument against others for purposes oif calibration, but to begin with a baseless assumption that a company might be committing fraud as the basis of the test is not something I would generally do.
> 
> But then again, I'm off to get gas for the car. On my way to work, Maybe I should stop at the lab and get the octane tested. I do spend far more on gasoline each year than I do on refractometers. after all.
> 
> ...


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## bmcmahon (Apr 23, 2010)

AstroBee said:


> has anyone tried to validate the claims relative to the 90 ATC.


I will be comparing results obtained with the 30ATC to this Misco digital unit used by a fellow beekeeper in the area. I couldn't bring myself to spend $350 so I am hoping the $100 unit lives up to its specifications.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

Thank you. I look forward to seeing your results.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

bmcmahon,

did you have a chance to do the comparison?

thanks


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

squarepeg said:


> bmcmahon,
> 
> did you have a chance to do the comparison?


Yes I would love to see the results also. Your fans are waiting.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

I've been shopping around for the RHB-30ATC, but so far all I can find is the RHB-32ATC. It claims .2 % accuracy, and is available for $18.99 from National Industrial Supply in Torrance, CA, (calibrating oil does not appear to be included). That price seems too low, is it the same instrument?


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

I figured it out. The accuracy on this one is .2 % brix, which is 1 % water....

so the 32ATC listed here is like the 90ATC discussed above.


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## G3farms (Jun 13, 2009)

Here is some pretty good info from misco, the first three are some of their digital models and the last link is on why you can not measure honey moisture with a brix type of refractometer.

http://www.misco.com/products/BKPR-1.html
http://www.misco.com/products/BKPR-2.html
http://www.misco.com/products/BKPR-4.html


https://docs.google.com/a/tds.net/v...ttd&zw&sig=AHIEtbSCFujraApG8TpMMLDi6nW2rOEx_A


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

Thanks G3,

the misco products look really nice, but are a little more than i can afford.

the last link required a secure log in, so i couldn't see it.

lesson learned on brix vs. H2O, thanks again.


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## blueskybeesupply (Dec 11, 2007)

Not sure if this helps the discussion, but here are the specs on our refractometers. We have the ATC ($69.95) and non-ATC model (sale $49.95):

Our analog refractometers have a resolution of .1% and a reading scale of 12-30%. Both the BLU-2ATC (Automatic Temperature Compensation) model and the Basic (Non-ATC) BLU-1B model are factory-calibrated for reading moisture at room temperature (68˚F/20˚C).

The ATC model will compensate for variations in ambient temperature to maintain accuracy under various conditions. 

The basic (non-ATC) model will need to be recalibrated to account for changes in local/area temperature before reading to maintain accuracy. Calibration is easy to do and takes just a couple minutes and this may not be an issue if you only use your unit seasonally.


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## G3farms (Jun 13, 2009)

Squarepeg.............Sorry for the bad link 

look on any of the first three pages close to the bottom left where you can "download a free copy"

It is a good read for sure.


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## bmcmahon (Apr 23, 2010)

squarepeg said:


> bmcmahon,
> 
> did you have a chance to do the comparison?
> 
> thanks


Yesterday I was about to post what I have learned but I figured I'd give it a day until the final resolve comes through. In that you've asked, I'll tell you where it stands as of now.

On September 16th I ordered and paid for the "heavy duty" version of the refractometer on EBay. Since then, I have not heard word one from the seller (ebay id: nis_sales. the store page shows as National Industrial Supply).

I called the phone number listed for them on 4 different occasions during normal business hours and got an answering machine. I left a message with my phone number asking for a return call. Nada.

The item is covered under a buyer protection program with Ebay. My money *should be* refunded by Ebay tomorrow. The feedback rating on National Industrial Supply is excellent but I won't be attempting any future purchases with this vendor.


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## JohnAllen (Jul 2, 2010)

It looks like the RHB-32ATC measures 0-32 degrees Brix, which is not suitable for honey. http://www.asianproducts.com/product/A12819464178068196_P12820173611910187/hand-held-industrial/cutting-liquids.html

Look for RHF-30ATC. http://www.asianproducts.com/product/A12819464178068196_P12820166863058997/hand-held-honey-refractometer.html. There are a couple listed on ebay. I got one last week and am happy with it.


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## berkshire bee (Jan 28, 2007)

I just got a digital one from Misco. It's made especially for honey and gives a direct %moisture reading. It was pricey, but I figured I should only need to buy one and the salesgirl actually talked me out of unneeded options.


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## Let_it _Bee (May 21, 2004)

*nis_sales = Bad customer service*



bmcmahon said:


> On September 16th I ordered and paid for the "heavy duty" version of the refractometer on EBay. Since then, I have not heard word one from the seller (ebay id: nis_sales. the store page shows as National Industrial Supply).
> 
> I called the phone number listed for them on 4 different occasions during normal business hours and got an answering machine. I left a message with my phone number asking for a return call. Nada.
> 
> The item is covered under a buyer protection program with Ebay. My money *should be* refunded by Ebay tomorrow. The feedback rating on National Industrial Supply is excellent but I won't be attempting any future purchases with this vendor.


I foolishly ordered the same model Refractometer from this guy on November 1st and still have not gotten it and he has not returned my calls or emails. I see there are many happy customers for the cheap beer refractometers, but I have a feeling this particular model is something he does not stock and has to special order. It would be nice if he would just let people know if it was not in stock.
Another thumbs down for nis_sales!


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