# Do bees have better health in a TBH ?



## jbuzz (Jan 27, 2015)

I don't ask this to start a debate on Lang's vs TBH's or anything else. I ask this from what i see in my yard. I started with Lang's and most of my colonies still are. About 5 yrs ago i decided to build some KTB hives. I wanted some natural comb honey and liked the idea of TBH hives. After a couple yrs i decided i didn't really need to take their honey. I then decided to just leave alone and see how they would on their own. I checked on them to see if they were queen right and for diseases. Never treated for mites and never fed. I hived these with swarms from feral colonies. Only 1 has ever died. The rest have thrived. They are right next to my Lang's. Which i struggle to keep losses low. Any thoughts?


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

that's the theory. depends what your goals are. just to have bees or have bees that provide a surplus for yourself.


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## jbuzz (Jan 27, 2015)

My goal is to keep as many bees as my wife will let me!


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

had to look at the map to see where scio was. thought it was down toward the city. (sorry for the insult.lol) your in a town just bigger than ours. sometimes its better not to tell the wife everything. lol happy spring if it ever gets here.


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## jbuzz (Jan 27, 2015)

I guess another thing i am wondering. Could it be the genetics. That these gifts i hived just good bees?


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

without starting a war I been at this over 50 yrs and worked 3 yrs as an inspector for nys. as far as I'm concerned bees are bees. just two different management styles. some people think a swarm from a hive that goes into a tree is a magic feral hive. go figure. some bees are a lot better but when that queen is replaced they have new traits. I would say your lucky and just got some good bees. don't get me wrong as bees can be improved by good breeding. good luck


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## jbuzz (Jan 27, 2015)

Thanks. You too. I was thinking i got lucky. I don't know much about TBH's and thought maybe that was it. I am happy to have healthy bees no matter what they are in!


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

I've never had Langs, but I seem to have a fairly easy time keeping the TBH's alive and with no chemical treatments. I'm hoping to find an easy method for the backyard gardener to ascribe to.


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## stan.vick (Dec 19, 2010)

I have a number of both types of hives, each have their own pros and cons, but it is my opinion that you got lucky and got some true survivor bees. As one poster indicated a swarm from a managed hive that goes into a tree and are hived by someone is not any different than a hive from an apiary, in some areas that's about all you get, but there are areas that have almost no managed bees and you can sometimes get a colony that have been unmanaged for many generations. Put those side of a package from a bee dealer and it's like night and day. I'd do some splits if I were you.


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## Ryan Williamson (Feb 28, 2012)

You say that you don't bother or take honey from the top bar hive. Do you open up your Lang's more often and take honey from them. Perhaps simple management differences are causing the different results more than the shape of the boxes the bees are living in?


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## Ryan Williamson (Feb 28, 2012)

You say that you don't bother or take honey from the top bar hive. Do you open up your Lang's more often and take honey from them? Perhaps simple management differences are causing the different results more than the shape of the boxes the bees are living in?


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## jbuzz (Jan 27, 2015)

Stan you are getting to the heart of my wondering out loud. I am retiring in 5 months. So i am preparing myself to produce my own queens next year. Buying equip and queens. So i wondered if these bees should in the mix. As Ryan asked about management between the the two styles. I do harvest honey from the Langs and check them every 7-10 days. Thus the question on healthier.


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## jbuzz (Jan 27, 2015)

The last post was cut short by a phone call to snow plow. Gosh 14 degrees and plowing snow! Is this ever going to end!?!


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## jbuzz (Jan 27, 2015)

Nice pics if your hives and bees Ruth. Thank you for your opinions. I value every opinion. It helps me think outside the box. No matter what the shape is.


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

I find it a breeze to raise queen cells in the TBH's. They are foundationless so it's easy to cut out a capped queen cell and introduce her to another colony. I just pull the queen out of a strong colony that has lots of new soft comb laid up with fresh eggs and the bees build like 15 queen cells on multiple bars. Last year I raised 5 of my own queens and plan to do more this year. (could have had all 15 hatch but didn't have enough bees to make that many splits). Not as many as if you were grafting eggs, but that is a whole different ballgame. TBH's seem to "grow" bees like crazy so they are great for making splits and queens. I hope to focus a little more on the varietal honey this year. Each bar has a different taste depending on what they were foraging on. And the crush and strain honey seems to taste different from extracted honey. It's all good, no matter what you are trying to do with the bees.


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## Cabin (Nov 30, 2014)

jbuzz said:


> I don't ask this to start a debate on Lang's vs TBH's or anything else. I ask this from what i see in my yard. I started with Lang's and most of my colonies still are. About 5 yrs ago i decided to build some KTB hives. I wanted some natural comb honey and liked the idea of TBH hives. After a couple yrs i decided i didn't really need to take their honey. I then decided to just leave alone and see how they would on their own. I checked on them to see if they were queen right and for diseases. Never treated for mites and never fed. I hived these with swarms from feral colonies. Only 1 has ever died. The rest have thrived. They are right next to my Lang's. Which i struggle to keep losses low. Any thoughts?


Have you thought of placing some of your TBH bees into langs and see if they do as well??? Maybe place some lang bees in a TBH. That may show if it is the bee or the hive. Or not.

:scratch:


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## jbuzz (Jan 27, 2015)

Those are great ideas Ruth and Cabin. I am going to give them a shot. Thank you.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I see a huge difference on natural comb compared to large cell foundation, but you can get natural comb in most any kind of hive.


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## jbuzz (Jan 27, 2015)

I have thought about putting empty frames in my langs when them are booming. To keep those girls busy. I could end up with enough frames for brood boxes after a while. Then maybe i can see if survival rates are better. Might not be a silver bullet, but it's a start. What i am doing now isn't working well.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

jbuzz said:


> About 5 yrs ago i decided to build some KTB hives. I wanted some natural comb honey and liked the idea of TBH hives. After a couple yrs i decided i didn't really need to take their honey. I then decided to just leave alone and see how they would on their own.





jbuzz said:


> I do harvest honey from the Langs and check them every 7-10 days.





jbuzz said:


> Any thoughts?


My thoughts would be check the implications of the first 2 quotes. Seems like more is being expected, and taken, from the langs.


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## BWrangler (Aug 14, 2002)

Hi jbuzz and everyone

I've had much the same experience when running tbhs next to Langs. This difference was so unexpected that it changed the way I looked at and kept bees. I've think the difference had much to do with clean, natural comb. And a natural nest structure that facilitates colony function.

Back in-the-day the focus was clean, small cell size conventional beekeeping versus nuke-them-mites with something new conventional beekeeping.

Before my tbh experience I only asked the "could" question, assuming my informed intervention was not only beneficial, but necessary.

But after, "could' I wasn't as important as "should" I. More it here:
http://bwrangler.litarium.com/

-dm


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## jbuzz (Jan 27, 2015)

Thanks for the thought and the link.


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