# Fast regression on HSC - too good to be true?



## slickbrightspear (Jan 9, 2009)

sometimes they are slow to accept it but it works well.


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## mythomane (Feb 18, 2009)

They can take up to 5 weeks to accept it, and you have to force them on it. After that it is ok.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Greetings one and all. I would like to know what kind of experiences you have all had with the 4.9 HSC plastic comb - could it be that easy to regress bees by transferring a colony on to this stuff in the spring, start a few nucs from the parent hive and after five weeks start feeding foundationless frames into it as well?

HSC, as everyone has said, works fine once they accept it but they will resist it. You'll lose a good three weeks of work putting a package on it. In other words they will be three weeks behind a hive that drew their own comb.

> By shuffling foundationless frames into the parent you could start a small cell/small bee factory of sorts?

Of sorts, yes. You can feed foundationless into a small cell hive before the main flow and get nicely small cells. Once the main flow hits the cells size tends to go up as well.

> I have read that it is a good idea to use a queen excluder to prevent them from absconding, but overall if it worked it sounds like the easiest way to regress.

It is the SIMPLEST way to regress, but I would not say it is the EASIEST.

> What are the downsides to this?

Acceptance. Plastic. Unnatural comb.


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## BeePuncher (May 25, 2007)

HSC, as everyone has said, works fine once they accept it but they will resist it. You'll lose a good three weeks of work putting a package on it. In other words they will be three weeks behind a hive that drew their own comb.

I had a lot of success this past season getting foundationless frames drawn following all the great advice here. The way I understood the regression process from the reading i've done is that it is very slow - perhaps I will reread the Lusby info again to make sure I didn't miss something. 


> By shuffling foundationless frames into the parent you could start a small cell/small bee factory of sorts?

Of sorts, yes. You can feed foundationless into a small cell hive before the main flow and get nicely small cells. Once the main flow hits the cells size tends to go up as well.

> I have read that it is a good idea to use a queen excluder to prevent them from absconding, but overall if it worked it sounds like the easiest way to regress.

It is the SIMPLEST way to regress, but I would not say it is the EASIEST.

> What are the downsides to this?

Acceptance. Plastic. Unnatural comb.[/QUOTE]

Acceptance seems to be the biggest downfall - my plan is to ditch the plastic as soon as I have a good number of small cell foundationless frames drawn from the parent hive and nucs later on. I am trying to figure out the fastest way to get small bees so I can put them to work drawing natural small cell on their own. That plastic is expensive too! Thanks for all the advice, I will have to do some more reading too.


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## mythomane (Feb 18, 2009)

The best way I have found to get them down is just to use Mann Lake PF100/120's. They love the stuff, and you are down to 4.95 immediately. It is also cheap. This has been widely discussed.


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## BeePuncher (May 25, 2007)

mythomane said:


> The best way I have found to get them down is just to use Mann Lake PF100/120's. They love the stuff, and you are down to 4.95 immediately. It is also cheap. This has been widely discussed.


Thanks for the tip, I was not aware that the pf100 was 4.95 - strangely Mann lake does not advertise this fact. This seems the way to go vs the HSC (the idea of my bees lollygagging around for 3-5 weeks during the buildup would cause me to blow a gasket). My intention is not to rely on plastic frames but to regress a few colonies with minimal effort so I can get smaller bees drawing SC on foundationless frames. When I have achieved this I will ditch the plastic. Thank you again one and all.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>The best way I have found to get them down is just to use Mann Lake PF100/120's. They love the stuff, and you are down to 4.95 immediately.

That has been my experience. It was well accepted, drawn perfectly...

> It is also cheap.

and it's cheap. 

>Thanks for the tip, I was not aware that the pf100 was 4.95 - strangely Mann lake does not advertise this fact.

I agree. I wonder why they don't? I wonder if they know the reason they sell a lot of it is because it is 4.95mm?

> This seems the way to go vs the HSC (the idea of my bees lollygagging around for 3-5 weeks during the buildup would cause me to blow a gasket).

There are other advantages to the HSC. One is that it's permanent. By that I mean that the wax moths can't eat it, the small hive beetle can't eat it, it won't collapse or melt... permanent is a good description...

>My intention is not to rely on plastic frames but to regress a few colonies with minimal effort so I can get smaller bees drawing SC on foundationless frames. When I have achieved this I will ditch the plastic. 

Having permanent drawn comb is quite a asset. You may want to keep it around.


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## Countryboy (Feb 15, 2009)

The only complaint I have heard about the Mann Lake PF frames is the top bar isn't always straight. It can be a little warped sometimes. You get what you pay for - they're cheap, and while the frame could be a little sturdier, they provide good bang for the buck.

Ok. Another complaint is mine - they are always on backorder on the PF frames. They might want to ramp up production considering their current popularity. Hopefully I have the 500 PF frames I ordered a month ago by next spring. I had a heck of a time getting a few hundred earlier this summer.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>You get what you pay for - they're cheap, and while the frame could be a little sturdier, they provide good bang for the buck.

I totally agree. They are not sturdy, but they are cheap and the cell size I want, and good "bang for the buck".


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## BeePuncher (May 25, 2007)

Ok. Another complaint is mine - they are always on backorder on the PF frames. They might want to ramp up production considering their current popularity. Hopefully I have the 500 PF frames I ordered a month ago by next spring. I had a heck of a time getting a few hundred earlier this summer.[/QUOTE]

Duly noted! Will be placing my spring order this fall.


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## BeePuncher (May 25, 2007)

Michael Bush said:


> >
> 
> >Thanks for the tip, I was not aware that the pf100 was 4.95 - strangely Mann lake does not advertise this fact.
> 
> ...


Perhaps I sound too mercenary - in reality I can't throw any equipment out - you should see my barn! Thanks again one and all for all the help, and patience since I know these topics have been addressed many times before; I find searching through old threads very time consuming.


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## hillhousehoney (Oct 7, 2008)

I have had good luck with HSC this year. I plan to keep it in the broodnest on all hives permanently, and all other boxes have the Mann Lake PF-120's. This set-up really works well for me. It is amazing to see the size difference in the bees after a few cycles.


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