# Selling nucs and queens with mites



## ashb82 (Apr 22, 2010)

I have been beekeeping for awhile now. Over the years I have purchased queens from breeder all over the USA. I have a good mix of bees Italian, Russian, Cordovan and Carniolan. I have good bees they always produce honey and I loose very few to no hives a year. I have sold nucs to a few local beekeepers and given them queens. Everyone seems to like them, but I have mites. My bees seem to live with them, I have never treated them for mites and I rarely loose a hive. My concern is that a beekeeper may infest there yard with mites from my nucs. I was wanting to sell about 30 to 40 nucs this spring and queens. I have never treated my nucs but would you treat them before you sale them?


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## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

It depends, some people dont want bees that have been treated at all. Even bees or packages that are "miteless" will pick up mites from other colonies or even in the field. Its totally up to you, but my thinking now is to treat my main colonies and atleast knock the mite numbers down substantially before making splits. Brood breaks will also slow the mites in nuc colonies. 

My mind has changed a lot since I started bee keeping, I went from treatment free to treating with Oxalic Acid vapor, atleast I will as soon as my vaporizer comes in!! I lost my first hive this year to mites which opened my eyes!! And it was a very strong double deep 10 framer.

Personally I wouldnt treat your nucs, I would leave that up to the new owner, its their decision and part of animal husbandry to take care of their bees as they see fit.


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## julysun (Apr 25, 2012)

I would just print out the statement you just wrote above and make sure every buyer reads it prior to the sale, maybe even put it on the bill of sale. Probably would kill a few sales but Bweaver has a similar statement on their web site and they sell a lot of bees. Honeybeegenetics does the same as do others. I think M. Bush does the same. Check it out, print it out, sleep well!


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

ashb82 said:


> I have never treated my nucs but would you treat them before you sale them?


You need to change your _perception_, not your mite [non]treatment method. :lookout: Some customers will pay _extra _to get bees that are survivors without being treated. Look around! Here's one that advertises no treatment:

http://www.arnoldhoneybeeservices.com/html/bees_for_sale.html



> Italian: Bred from resistant survivor stock. *No chemicals used for ten years.* Relatively gentle and calm. Strong disposition to brood rearing which provides a large population for nectar collection and continues even during nectar slowdowns, resulting in high stored food consumption during the inactive winter months. Overwinters well, builds up quickly in spring. Sometimes exhibits robbing behavior.


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## monrovi (Jan 22, 2012)

Why would you start treating when you have not had a problem with mites? It sounds like your mangement practices are successful. I would sell them untreated. Let others treat if they choose.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

you can never tell about a queen's nor nuc's mite resistance until the colony proves itself.

i will be selling bees that have never been treated, but i will make sure that all buyers knows this doesn't guarantee anything.

i will also want to satisfy myself that they know how to check for mites and have some method for preventing collapse.

i don't care if they treat or not, but i'll make sure that the bees are sold to someone competent, or someone at least committed to becoming competent.


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## ashb82 (Apr 22, 2010)

[HR][/HR]


monrovi said:


> Why would you start treating when you have not had a problem with mites? It sounds like your mangement practices are successful. I would sell them untreated. Let others treat if they choose.


I sold some to a older guy that kind of made a big deal that the nucs I sold him had mites, and he told some of the guys in his bee club. At the time he made a big deal out of it and I did not know how to handle the situation. But he called me over the holiday wanting to no if I was going to sell any nucs or queens. I ask him about the bees he purchased from me, he says he was very impressed with them.


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## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

ashb82;880566 But he called me over the holiday wanting to no if I was going to sell any nucs or queens. I ask him about the bees he purchased from me said:


> I would not sell to this guy ever again!! He is slandering your name around the bee club yet wants more nucs from you? I would tell him I will give him a special deal, $200 per nuc for him. I would also tell him how I dont appreciate him bad mouthing my bees, you know, the ones that he is impressed with, and leave it at that. I would also tell him to appollogize and stand up infront of the bee meeting and say how impressed he is with your bees.


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## WilliamsHoneyBees (Feb 17, 2010)

I sell nucs every spring in Ohio and they are not treated. Some people don't want bees that have been treated. When beekeepers pick their nucs up I explain to them that mites are a problem in every bee hive in the country, it is something they need to monitor throughout the year and these bees have not been treated. It is up to them to decide to treat or not treat and what product to use.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

Some things, including mites. I figure if i don't buy my bees with them they will have them eventually. I am either prepared to deal with them or I am not. If the seller knew they had mites I woudl want them to tell me though.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

It is not slander (or libel) if the statements are true.....you want to blacklist someone for telling the truth? Who do time want to cater to...customers who lie?

Deknow


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

Who says what the customer said is truth? The guy evidently had no idea what to do about mites. An indication he did not know very well what he was doing with bees.


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## matt1954 (Sep 8, 2010)

Selling Nuc's is one of the most difficult aspect of beekeeping IMO. It seems every customer, especially those new to beekeeping, has a pre-conceived notion of what they should look like. When the reality does not live up to thier expectations, they vent to anyone who will listen. You never hear about the great job you did, but you hear about that one which wasn't up to thier expectations.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

I can only go by what I'm told. The op said he has mites. The customer claimed the bees had mites.
I didn't read anything that indicated the customers level of experience, or if he "knew how to handle" mites.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

happy new year dean.

do you have an estimate as to what level of mite infestation your treatment free colonies are able to tolerate?


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## doc25 (Mar 9, 2007)

Just advertise them as treatment free. When the customer comes to pick them up let them know there is a mite count and if they want them treated charge them extra for it.
Keep selling nucs to the guy who complained, he might just turn around and be your best free advertizing around


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## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

Guys right now I am not sure whether I am raising bee's or raising mites, over the last two years I brought in 4 GA packages and if I knew then what I know now I would of treated them with formic acid to knock down any mites they were carrying before hiving them I would also have treated the nuc's I brought in and also the local frames of bee's I started with. I have no doubt that the might problem I have is from the bee's I imported to my area. After saying that I am doing as much as I can to requeen my hives with so called varoa resistant stock, but the proof of varoa resistance or tolerance will be in the outcome down the road.
Johno


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

johno, how are your hives doing at this time?


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## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

Squarepeg, out of my 24 hives I have lost 1 I never expected to lose, a carni hive that overwintered last year with a baseball sized cluster and I did not think they would have problems this year but they froze to death around capped brood and some eggs. A GA package where they were remoing capped brood and were full of mites looks a bit weak and there is another hive that failed to requeen on a number of occasions, they raise 3 queens from given cells but seem to have lost 2 on mating flights or something so I am not sure of that one. I see sighns ofDWV around some of the other hives but time will tell if I am going to lose any more. I am overwintering 3 nuc's as replacements and they are doing good even drawing a little comb. Most have good stores a few low on stores are getting fondant and pollen patties although on days thy can fly they are bringing in yellow pollen, I see we have some dandelion flowers around the area, that is about where I am at the moment just waiting for the end of February.
Johno


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## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

I have to assume that most nucs have mites in them, wether I chose to treat them or let things run their course is up to me. But to assume that there isnt ONE mite in a nuc these days is obsurd isnt it?? Correct me if I am wrong?

And the flag that raised my attention is how the person complaining told others in the club that his bees were junk basically...............yet wants to buy more bees off the OP because they were excellent producers?? Isnt that Slandering, making a false statement? When I start selling nucs I am going to have pamphlets printed up that reiterate the things I will tell the customer. I am going to disclose that I treat to control mites, of course I will do this on the phone so the customer can decide before making a commitment to buy the bees.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

outstanding johno. time will tell.

i have been suprised both ways, with hives that ended up doing a lot better, and hives that ended up doing a lot worse than i thought they would.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

Welcome to the wonderful world of the marketplace. Just make full disclosure to your customers and let the chips fall where they may. If the mite count is high enough you worry about the colonies viability, you should treat them or not sell them. The folks who succeed at selling mite tolerant bees have got to that place over years of extra effort and expense. If I put out nucs that are temporarily outbreeding the mites who will in turn catch up and kill the colony in the fall, I have no business selling them with any claims.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

Sure, to my mind, selling nucs and queens with mites is completely normal. Claiming they are mite-free, sounds too good to be true. Certainly more like setting oneself up to be proven wrong - as I'm sure anyone with that claim would be.

Varroa mite-free? Sounds as silly as claiming "chemical-free", when we know everything in our world is made of chemicals.


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

I sell a few treatment free nucs every year. When asked if they have mites I say, "I'm sure they do all hives do. 
We use minimal treatments powdered sugar only for testing, & treating. Last dead out was 3 years ago.


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## xcugat (Mar 4, 2008)

If you are not treating, chances are you have some mites in there period, it is always just a question of how bad the infestation is. If you are just making up the nucs in the spring depending on if you let them raise a queen or use a caged one you may have a enough of a brood gap to lower mite levels. Other than that, you will have some mites in there; buyers should know to monitor for mites and then watch out in the Late summer early fall time which is when Varroa makes the most problems. If they dont know what a "mite count" is use caution selling the bees unless you make it expressly clear that there are no guarantees with a natural product, and that AT THE TIME OF SALE the bees are in healthy condition


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## ashb82 (Apr 22, 2010)

Thanks for all the info and advice


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## dleemc1 (Dec 31, 2012)

i sell nuc`s mine have mites but i think every body else has mites also. at least i dont know any one who has bees that the mites are scared of.


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## dleemc1 (Dec 31, 2012)

i for sure let the people who buy them that they have to decide how they want to handle the mites, i treat mine.


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## winevines (Apr 7, 2007)

matt1954 said:


> Selling Nuc's is one of the most difficult aspect of beekeeping IMO. It seems every customer, especially those new to beekeeping, has a pre-conceived notion of what they should look like. When the reality does not live up to thier expectations, they vent to anyone who will listen. You never hear about the great job you did, but you hear about that one which wasn't up to thier expectations.


I beg to differ. I hear consistently about the quality of the nucs I sell and how well they did. Even if they swarmed- most survived the winter whereas the colonies started from packages did not. 
I have to wonder what your expectations are in making them up. We along with other Northern VA sellers have printed out guidelines as to expectations- size, amount of brood, number of frames, etc.


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