# Splits and new Queen creation in a relatively droneless area



## PFiji (Dec 25, 2016)

Dumb question. And I'm thinking the answer is...your newly created Queen will be a dude and the bees will die.

But I'm going to ask the question anyhow as this is how I learn.

If you split in the spring, putting bees eggs/brood/pollen/honey into a nuc (without a Queen) and then transported the nuc to a different beeyard in an area void of honey bees...they would create a new Queen whom would then fly off to be mated...and be unsuccessful in her mating flight.

Then the hive would die off right?


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

PFiji said:


> Dumb question. And I'm thinking the answer is...your newly created Queen will be a dude and the bees will die.
> 
> But I'm going to ask the question anyhow as this is how I learn.
> 
> ...


If there was some drone brood on that frame or other drones in the nuc, there would be a possible source of mates. A queen can mate with drones from her own colony. if the resulting queen did not mate, she would become a drone layer. Beyond three weeks of age as a virgin, they will not subsequently mate. You would have to wait that long before returning her to your bees or she would mate when returned.

Why?


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

any way to take to a place with bees , mate her then move it again?

GG


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## rg197772 (15 d ago)

Nice post


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## Some Bloke (Oct 16, 2021)

crofter said:


> If there was some drone brood on that frame or other drones in the nuc, there would be a possible source of mates. A queen can mate with drones from her own colony.


If she mates with her own brothers, about 50% of her eggs will develop into diploid drones because they will have identical sex alleles. These will be killed before they mature (spotty brood pattern) to avoid wasting resources on individuals who will neither work nor mate. The colony will collapse. This is why breeders work hard to avoid too much inbreeding.


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

O.P., why do you assume there are "no honeybees" where you took the nuc? There were likely some drones in the area, unless you took it to a remote island 2 miles from shore. I've seen poorly mated queens from an area that lacked a lot of diversity. The bees kept superceding those queens until I finally got the beekeeper a mated queen from my yard.


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## PFiji (Dec 25, 2016)

Gray Goose said:


> any way to take to a place with bees , mate her then move it again?
> 
> GG


That is likely the solution. Take the newly formed nucs to a friends house within range of another beekeepers yard for a couple weeks. Then transfer to their new final home.


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

PFiji said:


> That is likely the solution. Take the newly formed nucs to a friends house within range of another beekeepers yard for a couple weeks. Then transfer to their new final home.


in a pinch, you can mate them at my place
PM me if you need to try it.
lots of bees here.

GG


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## PFiji (Dec 25, 2016)

ruthiesbees said:


> O.P., why do you assume there are "no honeybees" where you took the nuc? There were likely some drones in the area, unless you took it to a remote island 2 miles from shore. I've seen poorly mated queens from an area that lacked a lot of diversity. The bees kept superceding those queens until I finally got the beekeeper a mated queen from my yard.


I live in an area with relatively few honeybees. Jack pine barrens and harsh winters are not a friendly combination to honeybees. Years ago I planted a decent home orchard, only to watch nothing but a few rumble bumbles polinate my apple trees year after year. It's what really got me interested in beekeeping.

Word travels fast in a small town. People are asking me to place hives in different locations. There's a few that I'd like to try, but I've never seen honeys in these areas. If my two hives make it through winter, I'd like to try creating a couple nucs. Grab a couple three frames, brood, pollen, honey. Place them at a few of these spots and see what happens. If I let them create Queens, they will either mate with whatever Drones come with during the split (bad due to inbreeding). Or with whatever local drones they can find (good as local survivors are adapted to the environment).

Screenshot of one of the locations I'm thinking about for this experiment. Yard is close to the clearcut by the 90 degree bend in the road. River, bogs and marshes all close by so water isn't an issue. Also something is almost always blooming along the river. Even if it isn't a big honey maker kind of bloom.


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## Wayne Brown (Mar 20, 2021)

simple answer, buy mated queens and build nucs with these. Increase your colonies and split, split, split. Won't take too long to have enough diversity to create a breeding area of your own.


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

The fix is an easy one. Move a Drone Mother colony that is not related to the queen mother colony to the same yard.


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