# F.W.JONES beekeeping supplies...



## Michael Palmer

*Re: The End of F.W.JONES beekeeping supplies...*

I bought my first bees from Jones in 1974, when Mr Craighead and his wife...daughter? Of Frank Jones were still alive. One time I found an old 4 frame reversible extractor in FW's old barn. Mr. Craighead made it a new hand crank fore and sold the extractor to me for 50 bucks. Quality people. Anyone remember David Gacina?At that time, their son John helped run the business. Brother Billy was a worthless piece of s.... He drove John off to St. Johns, and over the years has destroyed the business. I figure he ripped me off for a thousand pounds of capping wax. John was devoted to the business, and was always ready to go the extra mile...like driving me down a box of staples I needed for pollination. Billy couldn't give a ****.

Too bad for Richard and Jean, but Billy deserves it.


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## Riskybizz

*Re: The End of F.W.JONES beekeeping supplies...*

hey Mike don't hold your punches ok..just let them rip....opcorn:


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## Michael Palmer

*Re: The End of F.W.JONES beekeeping supplies...*

Okay then. 

I bought 200 lb. of comb honey foundation from Jones. The US Customs wouldn't let me cross the border without a certificate stating the foundation was made from melted beeswax and had no honey or propolis in it. Idiots.

Anyway I tried to get the paperwork. Called Medhat at in Alberta. He got me in tou h with Stevens in Beltsville and Bouchard in Quebec. No help. Found out it was
Bouchard's job to issue permits. Couldn't get through to him. Got pissed and wrote a nasty letter to him. Finally he wrote back...was on vacation. He told me that Billy wouldn't allow him in the foundation room to inspect the premises. Billy said he couldn't be bothered because I was too small time. 

Never got my foundation. I had left 1800 lb. wax on account for my foundation. I might have used 700 lb. I told them to pay me for what I had on account. They said I only had 300 lb left. Hogwash. After dealing with them for 30 years, they do that. 

As I said, Billy deserves to lose the family business that Frank W Jones started on the 1800s. Sionara Baby


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## Glen H

*Re: The End of F.W.JONES beekeeping supplies...*

The Toronto location was starting to get run down and the stock was not to good last year. I guess the writing was on the wall. I was in the Toronto location this month and will be back there today it's now run by Propolis ECT. As is another bee supplier out in Guelph Ontario too. The Guelph location of Propolis ECT. is really well stocked.


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## Denis Auclair

*Re: The End of F.W.JONES beekeeping supplies...*

Yes Propolis ETC. is really a well stocked outlet and they have all to the smallest to the biggest retail items. Just that sometime if you do not keep up with technologie and with the times you have to sell out like F.W. Jones did... The internet is now one thing that all Buisness should work harder on... It says WWW... World Wide Web!!!


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## FWJones

*Re: The End of F.W.JONES beekeeping supplies...*

First of all, Mr. Michael Palmer… F.W. Jones has never & will never rip anyone off. I say will never because contrary to what you seem to believe… F.W. Jones does in fact still exist. No we do not manufacture bee supplies anymore but Mr. Craighead has not run the business into the ground. His reasons for selling the bee supply portion of the business are personal and are none of your business. He has however ensured that no jobs were lost and all of the employees who chose to remain here have. 

In regards to your allegations that you were ripped off on your wax bills, I have, myself taken the time to dig out your wax bill from 2005 and was not surprised to see that all the invoice numbers to which you had applied your credit, were listed. Your statement about Billy not wanting to bother with the inspection of our wax room for you because you are too “small time” are absolutely ridiculous! Jones has always made it a priority to serve smaller customers… Billy went around himself for years with his tanker delivering sugar to the smaller bee keepers who otherwise would not be able to have sugar delivered to their door. The reasons why Bill did not agree to the inspection of the wax room were explained to you Mr Palmer, I have seen the e-mail to prove it. 

As for your knowledge of the history of F.W. Jones & Son ltd…. I don’t know what your policy is Mr Palmer however in my experience I have always found that it is best to not speak of what you do not know. However since you seem to have a particular interest in our company let me enlighten you in the hopes that this type of situation does not happen again. John Craighead, my uncle, who comes and visits my father (Bill) at the office on a daily basis was not “pushed out” of the family business but left in order to pursue a teaching job and has been teaching ever since, just like my grandmother. My grandmother btw was still alive in 1974 she however, was not Frank’s wife or daughter. F.W. Jones was created by frank in 1878… I may be mistaken… but I doubt his wife was available to serve you in 1974 considering Frank retired in 1938. 

It takes a pretty small man to use the internet as a way of tarnishing someone else’s reputation. After reading your comments on this page, I have no doubt that you are in fact, a small man Mr. Palmer.


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## Michael Palmer

*Re: The End of F.W.JONES beekeeping supplies...*

>>First of all, Mr. Michael Palmer… F.W. Jones has never & will never rip anyone off. I say will never because contrary to what you seem to believe… F.W. Jones does in fact still exist. No we do not manufacture bee supplies anymore but Mr. Craighead has not run the business into the ground. His reasons for selling the bee supply portion of the business are personal and are none of your business. He has however ensured that no jobs were lost and all of the employees who chose to remain here have. <<

Well, I'm glad for that. I have no issues with F.W. Jones' employees. I've always got along with J. and R., and considered them friends. I don't care why Billy sold the company, I object to his attitude toward me. I know an attitude when I see one. 

>>In regards to your allegations that you were ripped off on your wax bills, I have, myself taken the time to dig out your wax bill from 2005 and was not surprised to see that all the invoice numbers to which you had applied your credit, were listed. <<

Oh really. You show me where I bought enough foundation to use up 1800 pounds of lemon yellow capping wax, that I left on account with your company. 


>>Your statement about Billy not wanting to bother with the inspection of our wax room for you because you are too “small time” are absolutely ridiculous! Jones has always made it a priority to serve smaller customers… Billy went around himself for years with his tanker delivering sugar to the smaller bee keepers who otherwise would not be able to have sugar delivered to their door. The reasons why Bill did not agree to the inspection of the wax room were explained to you Mr Palmer, I have seen the e-mail to prove it.<<

Oh really. Ask Bouchard..the Quebec inspector. It was he who told me what Billy said. You disagree? Mr. Bouchard has absolutely no reason to make up a story like that. Just what email are you talking about? Explained to me by whom? Not you or Billy or J. or R. I never received any mail from anyone but Bouchard.

>>As for your knowledge of the history of F.W. Jones & Son ltd…. I don’t know what your policy is Mr Palmer however in my experience I have always found that it is best to not speak of what you do not know. However since you seem to have a particular interest in our company let me enlighten you in the hopes that this type of situation does not happen again. John Craighead, my uncle, who comes and visits my father (Bill) at the office on a daily basis was not “pushed out” of the family business but left in order to pursue a teaching job and has been teaching ever since, just like my grandmother. My grandmother btw was still alive in 1974 she however, was not Frank’s wife or daughter. F.W. Jones was created by frank in 1878… I may be mistaken… but I doubt his wife was available to serve you in 1974 considering Frank retired in 1938.<<

Actually, the woman you speak of was, I believe, Frank's daughter, John and Billy's mother. No? Then I got it wrong. I knew Mr. Craighead, too. He once made me a hand crank for a 4 frame reversible that was in Frank's old barn. And John has been to my house on a number of occasions. And who brought me a box of hive staples during pollination time when I was working from dawn to dusk? John, not Billy. And who showed up to our VBA summer meetings with a case of Molson? John. 

>>It takes a pretty small man to use the internet as a way of tarnishing someone else’s reputation. After reading your comments on this page, I have no doubt that you are in fact, a small man Mr. Palmer.<<

Small man? If what I've saids tarnishes Billy's reputation, then so be it. What he told the Quebec inspector about me is the action of a small man, and in my opinion, he has tarnished his own reputation. At least to me. 

I left R. with 1800 pounds of wax, to be used for me to buy Jones foundation at the made up price. Just when did I buy 1800 pounds of foundation? I ordered a couple hundred pounds of comb foundation, and you couldn't make it possible for me to pick it up. Billy knew I needed a permit to cross the border. He refused to allow Bouchard to inspect the wax room. Whose fault was that? Mine? I think Billy's. It was he who told Bouchard I was too small to bother with. Do you doubt that? You want that email? I probably have it in trash. By the way, did you charge me for it, and take it out of the wax I had on account?

Don't call me a little man, dear, until you know the facts.


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## Brandy

*Re: The End of F.W.JONES beekeeping supplies...*

Well that was a fun read after feeding bees for a couple hours. Brought back memories of that outfit that went belly up in Mississippi I think!! Used to sell those Moonbeam queens!!


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## shinbone

*Re: The End of F.W.JONES beekeeping supplies...*

Michael Palmer has huge amounts of credibility. When he says something, I believe him.


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## rwlaw

*Re: The End of F.W.JONES beekeeping supplies...*

With that amount in question I'd be spitting rocks too.


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## JRG13

*Re: The End of F.W.JONES beekeeping supplies...*

FWJones has poor reading comprehension was my first thought when I read their post yesterday. I don't see why the need to come in here and defend the company from a customer who had a bad experience, they simply stated their experience which led to great dissatisfaction apparently with the way things were handled. What would MP gain from lying about it, if you're so appalled at his 'lying', lets see some receipts....


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## beepro

*Re: The End of F.W.JONES beekeeping supplies...*

I believe Mike here. There is no need for the inspector to lie. There is no need for
Mike to lie. And all the receipts will not lie either. Go for the facts to see who is right or wrong.
I also believe that back then before the internet forum how business treat its customer is way
different from now. If the inspector is still alive now get him on this forum or somehow to contact
him to verify who said what.


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## FWJones

*Re: The End of F.W.JONES beekeeping supplies...*

Regardless what Bill said to the inspector, the reasons why he dint want the inspector here were explained to Mr. Palmer. 

It was not because he was too small to bother with. 
Anybody who's ever met Bill wouldnt beleive this.

Bill's not a hard guy to get along with and will always go out of his way to help anybody he can. 

Anyways i'm done arguing... you can't please everybody.. and no matter how nice you are, not everyone is going to like you. 

However, the truth always seems to come out. 

If Mr. Palmer wants to talk about his past wax bills, he can call to discuss it. complaining about it on the internet isin't going to solve the problem.


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## Rader Sidetrack

*Re: The End of F.W.JONES beekeeping supplies...*



FWJones said:


> Bill's not a hard guy to get along with and [HIGHLIGHT]will always go out of his way to help anybody he can.[/HIGHLIGHT]


But you yourself just told us that Bill would not allow inspection of the wax room to enable delivery of a product to a customer - a product that FW Jones already had payment for.



FWJones said:


> Regardless what Bill said to the inspector, the reasons why he dint want the inspector here were explained to Mr. Palmer.


So what steps were taken to refund to the customer the funds that FW Jones had collected for this aborted purchase that was never delivered as a result of Bill's refusal to allow inspection? :scratch:


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## FWJones

*Re: The End of F.W.JONES beekeeping supplies...*

I was defending my father. Mr. Palmer's rant was not directed at the company but at him. My father happens to be one of the nicest people you'll ever meet. I din't think it was fair of Mr. Palmer to make it seem any other way despite the fact that he may have had a bad experience with him. Their are always two sides to any story. I am sorry Mr. Palmer had a bad experience, but in cases like these when inspectors are required their are always other details that may not be known. the building that contains the boiller room was built in the 1900's, would you want an inspector pocking around ? No matter how big of a beekeeper Mr. Palmer was, the answer would have been the same. 

As for the receipts, i would be more then happy to post them if Mr. Palmer has no objections. For now i'll just give you the breakdown. 

In 2005 Mr. Palmer brought in 1168 lbs of wax. here are the invoice numbers and the amount that was deducted. 
Invoice# 441807 & 442243 - 150 lbs, 
Invoice #444625 80 lbs 
Invoice #444991 200 lbs 
Invoice #448350 380 lbs 
Invoice #450921 85 lbs 

Therefore making his balance 273 lbs. Jean told me that they offered to buy his remaining wax balance from him but he did not reply. 273 lbs is quite a difference from the 1100 lbs Mr Palmer said we owed him. My father was not the one keeping track of the wax bills, jean and Richard were.. is Mr Palmer doubting their honesty too?

If Mr. Palmer now wishes to discuss this in private like adults, he is more then welcome to call me at the office. (450) 248-3324 

Im sure we can come up with a solution. 

My reading comprehension is just fine. Thank you for your concern.


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## JRG13

*Re: The End of F.W.JONES beekeeping supplies...*

Now that is much better perspective FW, the main argument it seems is how much wax was dropped off. I only made my remark in reading comprehension based on your analysis of MP's account of the company's history which some of the points you got on him about, he posed it more as a question and not fact.


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## Riskybizz

*Re: The End of F.W.JONES beekeeping supplies...*

Now thats what we all like to see a real "feel good" happy ending to the story...a couple of gentlemen working out a mis-understanding.


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## Michael Palmer

*Re: The End of F.W.JONES beekeeping supplies...*

Let's go back to the beginning. I believe I left Richard with 1800 pounds of wax, not 1168. I have no proof, as I never thought I needed one. I've always been fond of Jean and Richard, and why would I think I needed anything from them. The discrepancy aside, in the number of pounds I left your company, the figures you are giving me don't add up with the facts. I'll tell you why shortly.

>>Regardless what Bill said to the inspector, the reasons why he dint want the inspector here were explained to Mr. Palmer. 
It was not because he was too small to bother with. 
Anybody who's ever met Bill wouldnt beleive this.<<

What exactly was it that was explained to me, and when? You mention an email. I never received one. 

What Bouchard told me I believe. Billy didn't want him in the wax room...and you have stated the reasons why. Your antiquated wax room would have been shut down if an inspector ever saw it. In the States, OSHA would have had a field day with you and you would have been paying hefty fines for endangering your employees. I know it and you know it. Drive chains with no guards, clankety clankety old machinery. I figured that one out when Bouchard told me what he told me...that the reason was my small-ness. 

You mention something about lying? Just exactly what is a lie? When you tell someone something that isn't true to save your butt. Did Billy lie? Well, if he had told the inspector that he didn't want the inspection done because the wax room was so old as to be dangerous, just what do you think the inspector would have done? Shut it down. But, Billy put it on me. Said it was because of me, when it was actually because of him. Lie number 1. Whether or not Billy is a reality nice guy or not doesn't really matter to me. What he said and did does.

>>I was defending my father. Mr. Palmer's rant was not directed at the company but at him. My father happens to be one of the nicest people you'll ever meet. I din't think it was fair of Mr. Palmer to make it seem any other way despite the fact that he may have had a bad experience with him. Their are always two sides to any story. I am sorry Mr. Palmer had a bad experience, but in cases like these when inspectors are required their are always other details that may not be known. the building that contains the boiller room was built in the 1900's, would you want an inspector pocking around ? No matter how big of a beekeeper Mr. Palmer was, the answer would have been the same. <<

Yes, proof of what I say is so. 

>>As for the receipts, i would be more then happy to post them if Mr. Palmer has no objections. For now i'll just give you the breakdown. 

In 2005 Mr. Palmer brought in 1168 lbs of wax. here are the invoice numbers and the amount that was deducted. 
Invoice# 441807 & 442243 - 150 lbs, 
Invoice #444625 80 lbs 
Invoice #444991 200 lbs 
Invoice #448350 380 lbs 
Invoice #450921 85 lbs 

Therefore making his balance 273 lbs. Jean told me that they offered to buy his remaining wax balance from him but he did not reply. 273 lbs is quite a difference from the 1100 lbs Mr Palmer said we owed him. My father was not the one keeping track of the wax bills, jean and Richard were.. is Mr Palmer doubting their honesty too?<<

Thank you for posting these receipt totals and numbers. It proves to me that someone is at fault, and it's not me. When I couldn't get the wax through the border without a permit, and no permit seemed possible, I called my old friend, MN, Alberta bee inspector. He gave me a number of people to call. The person in charge in Ottawa, the Quebec inspector, Bouchard, and Stevens in Beltsville, MD. I called them all, and it was left that I absolutely had to get that permit. Bouchard seemingly was ignoring me. I re-wrote him...a bit hot under the collar I was and I later apologized to him. He was on vacation, and before he left, he tried to get the inspection done but it was on Billy to allow him in. I've said what happened.

So, I called Jean. I wanted to be paid for any wax I had on account, because at that point, I was done doing business with F.W. Jones and Son, Ltd. I asked her how much wax I had on account, and without as much as a pause or a breath, Jean said, "Richard says you have 100 pounds of wax on account". Just how did she know that? She didn't know I was going to call. She couldn't have had the wax account paperwork in front of her. Was Richard there listening in and giving her hand signals? I doubt it. So I told her I sell my wax at $3.00/lb. and please sent me $300 asap...which she did. Go check your accounting, and you'll see a cancelled check, to me, for that amount. 

She said 100 pounds, but, you now state I actually had 273 pounds on account. So where did the 100 figure come from? A mistake? Gosh I hope so, because it would hurt more if Jean and Richard were lying to me...but what else should I think. Lie number 2? If they don't know whether it was 100 pounds or 273 pounds I had on account, how do they know it was 1168 pounds and not 1800 pounds. I can no longer trust your accounting of the facts.

And you say that, "Jean told me that they offered to buy his remaining wax balance from him but he did not reply". What are you talking about? She paid me $300. There was never any correspondence between me and F.W. Jones and Son, Ltd about this or any other matter. Not by phone or email. Not ever.

>>If Mr. Palmer now wishes to discuss this in private like adults, he is more then welcome to call me at the office. (450) 248-3324 
Im sure we can come up with a solution.<<

There is no solution as far as I am concerned, except to pay me for the wax...all the wax... you held on account. Since you say it doesn't exist, the matter is closed. I've moved on, and have way more important things to be concerned with...my family and my bees and the coming winter. I wish Jean and Richard and John all the best, and Billy can jump in the lake.


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## FWJones

*Re: The End of F.W.JONES beekeeping supplies...*

Mr Palmer, 

In your post in december 2006 you said this: Never got my foundation. I had left 1800 lb. wax on account for my foundation. I might have used 700 lb. I told them to pay me for what I had on account. They said I only had 300 lb left. Hogwash. After dealing with them for 30 years, they do that. 

Jean never told you you only had 100 lbs left.... That's the thing with posting on the internet Mr. Palmer... you can't change what was said. 

Anyways, in 2006 you said you werent doing anymore business with us... however you did in 2007! Your hard to follow Mr. Palmer. 

We have inspectors in Canada too.. Called CSST, they've inspected the boiler room for many years and we've always passed when it comes to employee safety regulations.. 


Thank you for letting us know that we had already sent you a check, i wouldn't have thought to look. Lucky for you, our computer system has everything stored on it since 1995... I'll be verifying how many lbs you were paid for and i'll get back to you. 

I guess you don't want me posting those receipts after all. 

I'm sorry to hear you still have so much anger towards my father. 

He and I wish you all the best.


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