# Tylan & Lincomix for AFB



## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

http://www.bioone.org/bioone/?request=get-document&issn=0022-0493&volume=097&issue=02&page=0171 
This study showed these compounds to be safer for brood than TM.


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## Guest (Dec 2, 2004)

Don't be shy, you can send an e-mail
to Dr. Mark Feldlaufer, who runs the Beltsville 
Bee Lab, and ask him about the situation.

His e-mail is [email protected],
and he is one of the nicer people you
will ever meet in "research".


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## Dick Allen (Sep 4, 2004)

.....and please don't be shy about posting what you hear from Dr. Feldlaufer....


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## Ricko (May 18, 2004)

Okay, here is the reply I received from Dr.Mark.

Rick: I can probably bring you up to date. FDA has approved our submissions and a Public Master File has been published in the August 3, 2004 Federal Register. Elanco, the producers of TYLAN (=tylosin), are preparing to submit an NADA (New Animal Drug Application) to the FDA for the use of tylosin in bees. After their submission, which appear imminent, FDA will give it a (hopefully) quick review and it will become available to beekeepers.

This all sounds very positive. I do wonder about the FDA+quick review...hmmmm is this possible?!!!!
As for any updates,approval information,etc. he didn't say where that would be posted. I can only think probably on their website.
http://www.barc.usda.gov/psi/brl 

And yes, Dr. Mark was very nice to talk with!

Rick
A


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## topbee (Mar 17, 2004)

Ricko,

By using the Tylan, we won't have to kill off and burn the equipement? Is this the same Tylan, we use on hogs and cattle. I have only had 3 hives in past that have had noticable AFB, but I went ahead killed off the hive and burned the equipment.


Good Luck on the approval!

Tony


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## dickm (May 19, 2002)

Berfore you celebrate too much, Tylan is not a replacement for Terra. It is to be used in the acute stage only, not for prevention.

dickm


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## Dick Allen (Sep 4, 2004)

Tylan (tylosin) is used for livestock and pets:
http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=1329&S=1&SourceID=52 

and as dickm wrote, it is meant to be used for bees, not as a preventive, but as an after the fact medication. 

Heres a bit of useless information: Mark Feldlaufer was in Anchorage back in the summer of 2000. His birthday is the same day and month as mine, although hes a year or two (I forget which) younger.


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## Guest (Dec 7, 2004)

I've been told that Tylan (Tylosin) is being used in special cases by the state of Pa. for use in treating Terra resistant AFB.


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## oregonbeekeeper (May 31, 2003)

yes, will it eliminate AFB in your hives or are the effects similar to TM? I have a recurring AFB problem that always comes back to haunt me in the winter.









Thanks


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## Ricko (May 18, 2004)

So if I read correctly what has been posted.
TM is for preventive maintenance and Tylan (Tylosin)is for the cure?
I certainly hope the FDA moves quickly on this, as burning equipment is a harsh mouthful to swallow.


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## Beemaninsa (Jun 9, 2004)

Please someone who knows what is going on let us know but I understand that tylosin is simply a broad spectrum antibiotic and would not eliminate AFB spores from your hive. In other words it treats AFB symptoms similar to the same way terra does.


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## Guest (Dec 15, 2004)

You can "kill" AFB in the vegetative state,
but nothing short of fairly powerful
radiation (more beam power than the sort
used to "irradiate" veggies) or very high
temperatures (think hospital autoclave)
will kill the spores.

The reason AFB is treated by burning frames
or entire hives of woodenware is that the
spores are so hard to kill. Fire is one
the cheaper methods at our disposal.

So "fire" is the actual "cure" for AFB.
Anything less is, umm, less.

And the new drugs are likely going to
only be available by prescription from
a veterinarian. When I heard this (from
Mark Feldlaufer), I asked if one should
consult with a large-animal vet, or a
small-animal vet. To me, the was a
dilemma, as large animal vets know these
drugs well, but bees would not be considered
"large animals" by most people.

Mark just groaned, and rolled his eyes
heavenward.


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## Ricko (May 18, 2004)

Tylan is already available over-the-counter now. Why the need for a perscription?


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## Guest (Dec 17, 2004)

> Tylan is already available over-the-counter 
> now. Why the need for a perscription?

I dunno. I had no idea one could buy ANY
antibiotic without a prescription.

I assume that you mean the "cattle" version.
I'm not sure that this is the same dose or
formulation of Tylosin that is appropriate
for bees.

We'll have to wait for the "label" to be
published and see what the rules of the
game will be.


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## Dick Allen (Sep 4, 2004)

>I had no idea one could buy ANY antibiotic without a prescription.

oxytetracyclilne hydrochloride aka Terramycin?

>I assume that you mean the "cattle" version.

That disqualifies it from being an antibiotic??? 

OK, now to be serious.....

>We'll have to wait for the "label" to be published and see what the rules of the game will be.

Have we forgotten that some use Mavrik soaked wood strips or towels in place of Apistan? As a matter of fact, just a few weeks back that issue was brought up here on one of the bulletin boards. Is the past an indication of the future?


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

There is some info here on tylosin plus lots more fascinating stuff in the last 2 newsletters: http://entomology.ucdavis.edu/faculty/mussen/news.cfm


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Recently I was schooled on Mavrik, and the information was very helpfull. (I did not know the handling dangers, the fact that it was pure apistan, or that it had no smell.) I have two beekeepers who have tylan, but have many questions, as I do. Part of this is for my own safety and learning curiosity, and part of it for helping others do something correctly, or at least "less incorrectly".

For those using or just know about tylan, can you answer the following?

What signs in a hive would indicate tylan being used? I have concerns for whats in a hive since I work hives with no gloves.

Should gloves be used when handling frames or other precautions about handling or smelling frames? Does it have a smell?

One gentelman I know using it, has already used it for "preventative measures". He has had an active outbreak of AFB, and hives were burned. His hives were resistant to TM, and he has panicked about what to do up to this point. From reading above, I assume that this is not correct. Will resistance be formed for this product from misuse?

I was told it comes in powder and liquid form. One of the beekeepers has the liquid form but has no clue what to do with it. He says he bought 100 grams(?) for over 50 dollars. (Telephone call and I have not seen the bottle) Does this sound correct?
He has asked me about mixing directions. On one hand, I feel like telling him I will not help him, and on the other, I want to be of assistance since if I do not, he will just go elsewhere. And who knows what he will be doing then.

Anyone not wanting to openily discuss this can private beesource email, or contact me at mikeandida at cs . com 

Thank you.


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

These are recommendations for the management of Honeybee diseases set out by the Alberta Gov't . If beekeeper has OXY-TET resistant AFB he can obtain a prescription from a Veterinarian to purchase Tylan Soluble 100.

Mix 100g of Tylan with 10Kg of icicng sugar.1part to 99 parts by weight
Apply 1 tablespoon of mix for small colonies and 2 tablespoons for large colonies. Repeat 3 times at 1 week intervals.

Do not use liquid Tylosin.
Do not mix with syrup (residue problems for sure).

Jean-Marc


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## Keith Benson (Feb 17, 2003)

"Will resistance be formed for this product from misuse?"

the bacteria will become resistant. Misuse will speed the process, but it will happen anyway. It is inevitable. No antibiotic kills 100% of the target bacteria 100% of the time.

I remember going to a bee meeting in Illinios some years ago and very well known bee researcher and writer said to the group that he did not think AFB would become resistant to Oxytet, because it hadn't up until then. Oi Vey. Antibiotic usage is like the arms race. We make a better bullet, and they develope better body armor.

Remember when discussing bacteria we are talking billions to trillions+ individuals. If even the tiniest of a percentage of the treated population is resistant, there will be thousands to millions of them.

Keith

[ October 16, 2005, 07:03 PM: Message edited by: kgbenson ]


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

Two more examples of treatments that have taken 5 or 6 years for researchers to investigate and propose that have been in use by commercial operations safely and successfully for at least 4 or 5. 

One of the reasons tetra became resistant so quickly was due the dosage we were advised to use as well as some application methods, such as patties, caused sub lethal levels of the antibiotic. I don't think we yet understand the science of the weight of the organisim when dealing with bees.

Somehow I don't see the value of treating the disease and leaving behind the spores. Without a preventative such as tetra aren't we just building a store of disease that will explode when the antibiotic eventually fails?

Jim, Bleach also kills spores with prolonged contact.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Bleach also kills spores with prolonged contact.

I have not heard this before. Do you have a source?


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

"Elimination of American Foulbrood Without the Use of Drugs." by Goodwin& VanEaton. Section 8.7.2 Sodium Hypochlorite "...Research at Ruakura ( I asume New Zealand) has shown that concentrations of 0.5% sodium hypochlorite in water will kill all AFB spores in 20 minutes."
(06/18/2003)

Same publication indicates 160 C parafin -equipment is dipped for 10 minutes, will also kill AFB spores.


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## franc (Jan 7, 2003)

Bjornbee this person your talking about does he change out his frames with new wax?

<What signs in a hive would indicate tylan being used? I have concerns for whats in a hive since I work hives with no gloves.>

And how are you keeping your hands clean Ive read were boiling Lye will kill most of the spores? Anything less than wearing throw away rubber gloves and your probably speading AFB and who knows what else.I also hope your cleaning any hive tools you use.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

franc, Unless your using a new set of gloves for every hive, I would agree. Unfortunately thats not practical. I do keep latex/surgical gloves for certain situations, but the state does not allow the use of "gloves". I handle many hundreds of frames in any given week. When you start adding up the mavrik, tylan, and who knows what else, it makes you wonder how much contact you are making with these chemicals.

Cleaning hands/tools between apiaries is always done. And as needed at other times. I honestly do not know any beekeeper who burns off or cleans thier hive tool between every hive within the same apiary. However I will stop and change tools/gloves after AFB has been detected.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>has shown that concentrations of 0.5% sodium hypochlorite in water will kill all AFB spores in 20 minutes.

So that's chorine bleach which comes over the counter as "clorox" at about 5%? That's about 10:1 water to bleach isn't it? For 20 minutes?

I guess a tank made for dipping parafin would would for both Clorox and parafin, but then if you have it you may as well do the parifin instead.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

All is correct. The hassle with the parafin is you need a tank big enough to submerge supers and quite a bit of wax. They show a wax tank and heater unit. The reccommended grade of parafin is the type the melts at 60 C. I haven't converted that to F yet. Another concern of course with parafin is that sterilization temperature is about 325 F and the flash point 395 F which could happen fast if you didn't have an accurate thermometer or walked away to answer the phone for a couple of minutes.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Seems like they are recommending 160 F for 20 minutes? Not 325 F. 60 C = 140 F.


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

They recommend 325 F or 160C for 10 minutes. I've got a big tank, large enough for pallets, and I heat it with 2 tiger torches for close to 1 hour to bring it up to temperature. Once temperature is acheived I only run 1 tiger torch. This is definetely an outdoor project. It's kinda like deep frying. The water in the wood boils out, and the parrafin rosen mixture goes into the wood. It's kinda hard on paint. All new equipment is treated this way instead of being painted.

Jean-Marc

Jean-Marc


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

MB the melting point for the grade of parafin to use is 60 degress C. I guess diffent grades melt at differnt temps. The sterlization temp is the 325F. The period for submersion is 10 minutes after the equipment is dipped and the temp has been established.

[ October 18, 2005, 09:48 PM: Message edited by: Joel ]


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## Aspera (Aug 1, 2005)

Just skimmed this thread, and there are numerous interesting perspectives posted here. My opinions regarding foulbrood (and most diseases) are as follows:

1) Understanding how it is transmitted is key to prevention

2) Sanitation and good husbandry are usually the most cost effective way to prevent and or cure infectious diseases. Sanitation and good husbandry are invariable referred to as "a pain in the a**"

3) Bacterial resistance cannot be prevented except by not using antibiotics

4) Resistance is less likely if multiple antibiotics are used simultaneously. Follow labelled doses, durations and methods of administration for best results.

5) Acknowledge that sometimes nature/disease just screws you and you will be better off "cutting your losses" whatever they may be

6) A few well designed studies indicate that bees can be breed for foulbrood resistance.

While I have much to learn about bees, I witnessed the use/misuse of hundreds of 100's of thousands of $$$$ worth of antibiotics of all classes and feel that most problems in agriculture have a first and last name, and that the cost of these problems is often beyond your control.


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