# Does pollen imply nectar?



## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

yes some flowers will produce pollen but no nectar. If you see them landing hard/ and or resting and breathing hard before they enter, they are probably carrying nectar.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Weigh the hive?


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## cwood6_10 (Apr 17, 2012)

Look close at the girls flying in. I know it will be hard but look at the abdomen and see if it is swollen. If they are bigger they are storing nectar. Also look for white comb anywhere in the hive. With a good supply they will build comb


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

>> yes some flowers will produce pollen but no nectar.

Here is a reference ...


> Flowers such as rose, poppy, elderberry and potato, have no nectar but may be scented, they are generally conspicuous, simple, regular, with pollen freely exposed and usually abundant. A great variety of color types are included. Insects involved are usually Syrphidae flies, soldier flies and pollen feeding beetles. Many pollen gathering bees, including honeybees, usually frequent these flowers. They are generally unattractive to Colletiidae bees, male bees, bee flies, moths, butterflies and hummingbirds.
> 
> _See this link for more info:
> http://www.faculty.ucr.edu/~legneref/pollination/pollinat.htm
> _


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## philip.devos (Aug 10, 2013)

IAmTheWaterbug said:


> If I see foragers going into the hive with loads of pollen, is it a pretty safe bet that they (or others) are also bringing in nectar, and that feeding is not likely to be necessary?
> 
> Or do flowers produce pollen without nectar?


Here in the east in very early spring and late summer there can be a dearth of nectar, while at the same time the bees are bringing in loads of pollen. You can only verify that nectar is coming in by opening the hive and either seeing fresh white comb, or seeing nectar being stored in the comb.

Phil


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## IAmTheWaterbug (Jun 4, 2014)

cwood6_10 said:


> Look close at the girls flying in. I know it will be hard but look at the abdomen and see if it is swollen. If they are bigger they are storing nectar. Also look for white comb anywhere in the hive. With a good supply they will build comb


Thanks, all! I was asking to see if I could tell what's going on without opening the hive, but it looks like I will have to go in and see for sure. Last time I went in I saw some wet nectar, but that as more than a month ago.

I didn't stay very long last time because two bees got into my suit and were crawling around on the back of my neck! I quickly closed up and beat a hasty (but calm) retreat back to the garage, where I successfully got out of my suit without getting stung.

Time to say Hi!


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

I think nectars don't flow till you get 70+ degrees, that's why pollen only flows are early spring and late fall.


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

RayMarler said:


> I think nectars don't flow till you get 70+ degrees, that's why pollen only flows are early spring and late fall.


If that were the case we would be in a world of hurt here in the PNW. I might go for 50 degrees but it must be plant dependant: Maple is a good example.


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

Yes, you maybe right minz. I don't have maples here and did not realize they had nectar. I was under the assumption they gave early pollen. But like I said, I don't have maples here. I wish I did though as I do love real maple syrup!. Here where I'm at, I don't see nectar flows until temps get 65-70 in the spring. I get early mustard pollen, but later when the temps warm, I'll get nectar flows from the mustard. It's one of my earliest bloomers here.


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## johng (Nov 24, 2009)

We have pollen available almost all year here in North Florida but, we have a long nectar dearth from middle June - early October and again from middle November - late December. The summer dearth is by far the hardest on the bees. We get a lot of Maple pollen in Jan. and early Feb. but, we don't always get nectar. The best way to know if they are bringing in nectar is to open the hive up and look if you see lots of clear liquid that will shake out of the frame you have a nectar flow going. Sometimes in the early part of the year you can just pop the top and look to see if they are starting to make new white wax. If you see new wax you can assume they are bringing nectar in without pulling any frames.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Opening the hive is the surest way to tell if you have the nectar stored.
Observing the bees from the outside is harder to tell whether or not they are bringing
in water or the nectar looking at their abdomen. Some flowers will have pollen while some
have both. It depends on what is blooming in your area at any time.


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

We had a flying day here yesterday and only about 30% of the bees were coming in with pollen. Everybody seemed on a line so i guess i assume the others found necter. I am in the PNW so bees here carry water out of the hive!:lpf:


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

I went out this morning, it was an even 50 degrees temp outside. The hives were flying heavily, looked like a busy airport runway. Some of the bees had pollen, some had to be having nectar, too many flying to be coming in empty at that temperature. I'm guessing Eucalyptus, as I know it gives both pollen and nectar flows this time of year. So perhaps my earlier statement of bees not finding nectar under 65 degrees is not true. I dunno, but I did put feeders on as they had too many empty combs that they'd eaten all their winter stores. I have read that different flowers give nectar at different temperatures, and I do know I get more flows when temps are from 70-90 degrees, but perhaps that's just from the time of year when more flowers are out.

But still, for the original posted question, pollen coming in does not always mean that nectar is coming in as well. Early pollen comes in and bees can still starve from lack of nectar. Most starved hives don't starve in winter, they starve in early spring once pollen flows start and brood rearing starts and they eat through all their stores and not enough nectar is flowing yet in the early spring.


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## IAmTheWaterbug (Jun 4, 2014)

RayMarler said:


> Early pollen comes in and bees can still starve from lack of nectar. Most starved hives don't starve in winter, they starve in early spring once pollen flows start and brood rearing starts and they eat through all their stores and not enough nectar is flowing yet in the early spring.


Thank you!!!! I had no idea this was the case (hence my original post). I checked the hive, and I had lots and lots of capped brood, and nearly zero honey. I had a few frames that were just wall-to-wall capped brood, which is something I haven't seen before in my hive. And nearly all the honey in both boxes was gone. I had a tiny bit of wet nectar, but it just paled in comparison to the number of bees crawling around.

So I put a jar of 1:1 on top, and I'll keep a close eye on it.


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

It sounds like you have a very good looking over wintered hive, congratulations! I think you did good to put on some syrup at this time, they probably used up the last of their winter stores to raise that wonderful looking brood you saw. The same with me here, my hives were low on stores but brooding had started, so I've given them some syrup to tide them over to good flows, which seem to have started pretty good here. The problem now is when the weather turns to extended rain or cold fog so that they don't get out to forage much. I'm keeping an eye on them.


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## Colobee (May 15, 2014)

It's always interesting to see the Q&A's here. The regional diversity is not surprising. We often get pollen in early February, but not much nectar until March or later, depending on the year.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

Colobee - For your region, what part of March is it typical for the nectar to first become available, and what plants are usually the first nectar producers?

TIA!


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## IAmTheWaterbug (Jun 4, 2014)

Colobee said:


> It's always interesting to see the Q&A's here. The regional diversity is not surprising. We often get pollen in early February, but not much nectar until March or later, depending on the year.


Yeah; I'm finding that a great deal of what I read on the Internet is just not relevant to Southern California beekeeping, especially with respect to winter.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

_"Yeah; I'm finding that a great deal of what I read on the Internet is just not relevant to Southern California beekeeping, especially with respect to winter._"


So true! And a fact which is often overlooked on Beesource.

It could be a valuable modification if Beesource forums could be organized by the Original Poster's region. In other words, optionally be able to organize the forums into regions, as well as into subject matter.


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## Scpossum (May 4, 2014)

Mine have been bringing in pollen for a few weeks now and started bringing in nectar in the last week. Today I heard what sounded like comb building. They had drawn a little comb Sat when I opened them up. It has been from 45-65 degrees here the last week.


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## Beardedbee1 (Feb 10, 2015)

Probably depends on the location you are in. One good thing that it means is that the queen has started to buildup and those babybees are needing food. Always a good sign to see that pollen going in


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## Colobee (May 15, 2014)

shinbone said:


> Colobee - For your region, what part of March is it typical for the nectar to first become available, and what plants are usually the first nectar producers?
> 
> TIA!


"Up" here in the "bluff country", spring is such a relative term ( along with winter). 'Not that much different from Denver, in general, but you know how the storms vary. Last night was a good example - we got around 4-5 inches of snow, while the news reported very little accumulation just 10-15 miles north. Dandelion seems to be the first bloom that provides any substantial nectar, and it shows up when the season dictates, usually _sometime_ in March. Next seem to be the neighborhood fruit trees & early flowers. These are just general observations/indicators - I've never looked much harder for what other sources they may be working.


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## Colobee (May 15, 2014)

shinbone said:


> _"Yeah; I'm finding that a great deal of what I read on the Internet is just not relevant to Southern California beekeeping, especially with respect to winter._"
> 
> 
> So true! And a fact which is often overlooked on Beesource.
> ...


As I said - such interesting diversity! It's kind of nice to hear terms like "splits, re-queening, spring feeding, boosting brood, swarm control", etc, - coming from the warmer climates. 'Things I may be working on in the next month or two, or three, but mostly just planning on for now.


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## IAmTheWaterbug (Jun 4, 2014)

Scpossum said:


> Today I heard what sounded like comb building.


Just curious--what does that sound like? Miniature circular saws and tiny little hammers? 

But seriously, can you really tell they're building comb by the sound of it?


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

I noticed on Sunday that my bees are bringing in a tannish-brown pollen. BUT, nothing is blooming, yet. That pollen can only be from last year's blossoms, which are now nothing but dried out flowers stubbornly clinging to their plants. Despite the presence of pollen, certainly no nectar is coming from these last-years relics.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

Had a friend several years ago lose his hive in the early spring due to starvation, they were bringing in lots of pollen.


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## Colobee (May 15, 2014)

shinbone said:


> I noticed on Sunday that my bees are bringing in a tannish-brown pollen. BUT, nothing is blooming, yet. That pollen can only be from last year's blossoms, which are now nothing but dried out flowers stubbornly clinging to their plants. Despite the presence of pollen, certainly no nectar is coming from these last-years relics.


Go out and listen to the trees. Maples don't have an obvious blossom (to my eye) but the buzz ( a quiet roar!) of hundreds of bees working the trees tells me that this is one of the earliest sources of pollen for my bees. I'll check the color tomorrow.


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## Colobee (May 15, 2014)

The Maples have a dark brown bud that has broken open and dropped a light brown fuzzy tassel. The bees are bringing in a light tan to cream colored pollen.


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

Around here, Silver Maple is an early bloom. I always watch for that pollen quite early in the spring. If I have to add syrup, I do it then. By the time hard maple blooms there are many more sources of nectar so I only add syrup to struggling hives. I never count on pollen equating to nectar.


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## IAmTheWaterbug (Jun 4, 2014)

I've fed my single hive a few quarts of syrup over the last few weeks. When I took a peek yesterday, the girls seem to have stored some honey, and some of it is even capped now (vs. 3 weeks when they had virtually no stores). 

Is there any way to tell whether this "honey" is from the sugar syrup I'm feeding them or whether it's from real nectar?

I've been told there's some real nectar flow starting, but I'd like to know for sure.

Or should I just feed until they refuse it?


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

>>Is there any way to tell whether this "honey" is from the sugar syrup I'm feeding them or whether it's from real nectar?

Put some food coloring in the syrup that you are feeding.  Blue ought to be interesting.


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## Terry C (Sep 6, 2013)

Colobee said:


> As I said - such interesting diversity! It's kind of nice to hear terms like "splits, re-queening, spring feeding, boosting brood, swarm control", etc, - coming from the warmer climates. 'Things I may be working on in the next month or two, or three, but mostly just planning on for now.


 I've been watching what's going on to the south of where I am , and considering the fact that spring comes there first ... if someone 400 miles south of me is seeing pollen and nectar , that's one thing . But if someone a hundred miles south is seeing the same , I take that as a heads-up for my area . I'm so much more aware of what is going on out in the woods than I used to be !


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## ordy28 (Sep 10, 2013)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> >> yes some flowers will produce pollen but no nectar.
> 
> Here is a reference ...


I just went back thru this thread since it came back up and noticed that this reference on this post stated elderberry has no nectar, but this is the only source I can find that states that. Every article I found mentioned that elderberry does in fact yield nectar. Hummingbirds are frequent visitors to the flowers. So I got out my big book, The Hive and The Honeybee and it too stated elderberry is a nectar and pollen plant for bees. I know down here when it is blooming, the flow is fast and furious. Just not sure if that university got that right, at least I can't find anything that supports that. Well, apologies for the hijack of the thread, but thought I'd mention what I found and see if someone knew anymore on the subject.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Here is a page that assigns 'pounds per acre' values for nectar and pollen for a variety of plants:
http://roane.ext.wvu.edu/r/download/93589

The perennial version of elderberry is shown as a relatively weak performer in nectar yield, but a very strong performer in pollen (in comparison to others on the list).


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## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

Southern California is in the middle of its pollen and nectar flow. The really early just pollen blooms (Live Oak, Quercus agrifolia) is now fading.
There is huge diversity of other plants in full bloom. Black Mustard, Erodium (storksbill), Euc, German Ivy, Arroyo Willow, Buckbrush, some sage, and on and on.
Just this week the Islay -- Holly leaf Cherry came on._ (Prunus ilicifolia)_ Look at the floral disk (hypanthium) on the Islay - it is just dripping with nectar. Islay will grow on steep north slopes in the sage scrub, and is very widely planted as a horticultural specimen (usually the Catalina Island form- Prunus ilicifolia ssp. lyonii ). Palos Verde has an intermediate form between the Catalina and mainland phenotypes -- a relic of when Palos Verdes was an offshore island.


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## ordy28 (Sep 10, 2013)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> Here is a page that assigns 'pounds per acre' values for nectar and pollen for a variety of plants:
> http://roane.ext.wvu.edu/r/download/93589
> 
> The perennial version of elderberry is shown as a relatively weak performer in nectar yield, but a very strong performer in pollen (in comparison to others on the list).


That's what I have growing, Graham, is the perennial version. It's wild all over. And it is in for quite sometime, so the strong flow that I see is obviously not just the elderberry, and as evidenced by the WVU link. But I guess the part that struck me was that the original university piece posted stated that elderberry had no nectar. Just a good reason to do research before reading just one reference and running with it. And then there's the problem to tend to take it too far and read too much since their are only a few absolutes and many variables in this beekeeping gig, and of course that can get overwhelming. It can drive a person wild. But the Ag extensions, such as you attached to this post, seem to be great resources. I really like this link you pasted in this reply even though its a ways north.


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## IAmTheWaterbug (Jun 4, 2014)

IAmTheWaterbug said:


> If I see foragers going into the hive with loads of pollen, is it a pretty safe bet that they (or others) are also bringing in nectar, and that feeding is not likely to be necessary?
> 
> Or do flowers produce pollen without nectar?


Hah! I watched my bees from the outside for a few minutes this morning, and they were all bringing in lots of pollen, which reminded me that I'd started this thread some time ago. I was wondering exactly when I'd posted it, and here I find that it's _exactly_ a year ago.

So January 29 is a heavy pollen day in Los Angeles! Marked for the future . . . .


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## IAmTheWaterbug (Jun 4, 2014)

JWChesnut said:


> Southern California is in the middle of its pollen and nectar flow. The really early just pollen blooms (Live Oak, Quercus agrifolia) is now fading.
> There is huge diversity of other plants in full bloom. Black Mustard, Erodium (storksbill), Euc, German Ivy, Arroyo Willow, Buckbrush, some sage, and on and on.
> Just this week the Islay -- Holly leaf Cherry came on._ (Prunus ilicifolia)_ Look at the floral disk (hypanthium) on the Islay - it is just dripping with nectar. Islay will grow on steep north slopes in the sage scrub, and is very widely planted as a horticultural specimen (usually the Catalina Island form- Prunus ilicifolia ssp. lyonii ). Palos Verde has an intermediate form between the Catalina and mainland phenotypes -- a relic of when Palos Verdes was an offshore island.
> View attachment 16263


Is anyone in the Los Angeles (or Palos Verdes, or other similar coastal So Cal climate) seeing a flow now? I'm just so new at this that I can't determine without opening the hive.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

No significant pollen or nectar source here.
Still too cold in the 50s. Many bees stay in waiting for
a warmer weather. They are munching on the bricks and
patty subs though.


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## IAmTheWaterbug (Jun 4, 2014)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> >>Is there any way to tell whether this "honey" is from the sugar syrup I'm feeding them or whether it's from real nectar?
> 
> Put some food coloring in the syrup that you are feeding.  Blue ought to be interesting.


OK! So here's what 4 drops of coloring in a quart of syrup looks like when it's stored:

























My GoPro has poor color saturation; it's much brighter in real life!


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## Gumpy (Mar 30, 2016)

I wish I had seen this 2 months ago!


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