# Living with Varroa



## SlickMick (Feb 28, 2009)

Last evening there was a documentary on SBS channel (http://www.sbs.com.au/documentary/program/honeybee-blues/index) here on the impact of the Varroa mite on world honey bee populations. At this point in time Oz is still Varroa free but it is an interesting issue as to how beeks in the US and elsewhere are living with it.

Can it be managed without chemicals and changes in management practices? 

What steps are being taken in the US where commercial pollination appears to be contributing to the mite's spread.

Is it like the SHB in that once you have it you will always have it

Mick


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

once you have it, yes it will always be there
Management changes, without a doubt. Will have to monitor and check regularly to see of the mites are controlled or if they are gaining a foot hold in the hive. One of the biggest things is the secondary infections that have been atributed to the mites. IE k-wing, nosema gaining ground in the hive, and other viruses increasing in # in the hive since mites lower the threshold for disease resistance. When i say resistance, i do not mean genetic resistance but, the ability to fight off diseases when healthy as compared to when compromised.
Treatments, depends on what your goal is. I like formic for a treatment.


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

once it arrives in Australia you will just have to deal with the problem in that 'extermination' generally never works.

genetic adaptation is the best mechanism for dealing with the problem, but it just takes a long time (or tagging into adapted individuals if they exist). in moving from totally unadapted stock to adapted stock I personally prefer the acid treatments vs anything that looks like a pesticide impregnated pest strip (which I think is about the same as shooting yourself in the foot).


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

In my experience, Varroa MUST always be MANAGED. This management can be without chemicals, to a point, and many of the "practices" you may not be using.

A very good (probably "best"??) "control" method that requires no chemicals is making splits. A practice already used by beekeepers. However, "timing" it's use in order to control varroa has to be "learned", and may not fit everyone’s overall apiary management" style. This method may be how many proclaim to be "chemical free".

A lot of hobbykeepers use drone trapping/cutting to reduce Varroa w/o using chemicals. Again, it may not fit into your "style" of overall management.

There are a lot of small-scale keepers using Small Cell to survive w/o chemicals. The "claim" made by SC users has not yet been documented by science. Controlled studies fail to show fewer mites. I think much is yet to be learned about how we "keep" bees and the studies so far do not match actual "field use". Time may tell us more. 

Once you move into the "treatment arena", a "first choice" can be powdered sugar. It will knock down mites to an acceptable level IF you do it before levels get too high, and it is NOT a "one time" solution. Constant monitoring of mites levels are required.

If your sugar treatments are not keeping levels down, then you must get onto the "chemical treadmill". 
Many use "soft" so-called "natural" chemicals like Oxalic Acid, Formic Acid, and "oils" (and many, many homemade "cure-alls").

In the US, the use of Apistan and Check-Mite Plus is said not to work any longer due to mites becoming resistant to their chemicals. Until resistance happens in Oz, you'll find them to be extremely efficient mite killers. Use them wisely, because when they work, they work best 


>What steps are being taken in the US where commercial pollination appears to be contributing to the mite's spread . . .
It's too late here. Varroa are in EVERY hive in the US.

>Is it like the SHB in that once you have it you will always have it . . .
Yes. Although, some here now claim to have bees that can tolerate Varroa without little or no damage. 
Varroa has been in the US for 25+ years and most of us are still waiting for this "tolerance" to come to our hives.


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## max2 (Dec 24, 2009)

In the US, the use of Apistan and Check-Mite Plus is said not to work any longer due to mites becoming resistant to their chemicals. Until resistance happens in Oz, you'll find them to be extremely efficient mite killers. Use them wisely, because when they work, they work best

Very likely, when we get Varoa in Australia the mite will already be resistant to Apistan etc.


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## heaflaw (Feb 26, 2007)

Treating with chemicals is temporary & only breeds stronger Varroa. The best and only permanant control is breeding bees that can themselves control varroa. Many successful beekeepers have done that. (For example, see: Bushbees site; article in Jan 2010 edition of American Bee Journal; Beesource-Home-Resources-USDA-Producing Varroa Tolerant Honey Bees). Scientists in the US have also bred strains that are Varroa tolerant: VSH, Minnesota Hygenics, New World Carniolan, imported Russians. Europeans have done the same. With these you do not have to do splits, interupt the brood cycle, freeze drone comb, etc to control Varroa. The downsides to getting to that point is either the losses from breeding by yourself or the cost of the USDA bred strains. The commercial guys think they cannot afford to do it because they are one bad year away from failure as it is. Hobbyists and sideliners are increasingly coming around to the no treatment viewpoint despite what the bee supply companies and the queen breeders say.


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## max2 (Dec 24, 2009)

Thanks, heaflaw. Gives me hope!


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

You guy's have a head start. There are already resistant strain in the US & Europe. Hopefully you're allowed to start importing them.


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## Michael Johnston (Nov 25, 2007)

I have not treated for varroa since 2003. Varroa first made its appearance here around 1993. I live in an area with a very long winter. Bees that are susceptible to varroa won't survive the winter once you stop treating. In the early year's, I would lose around 75% of my bees each winter even while treating with apistan. I started grafting from untreated survivors in the late 90's. In 2003, I failed to get apistan on most of my hives in the fall because of an early winter and the following spring, my strongest hives were ones that had not been treated. 
If you want to breed for resistance, you'll need to stop treating part of your operation and then pick breeder queens from the ones that survive. It will take a while longer before the drones in your area are from resistant stock. It helps to be somewhat isolated.


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## honeydreams (Aug 10, 2009)

last night I was reading that using tobbaco in your smoker will drop the mites off fast.


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## peacekeeperapiaries (Jun 23, 2009)

This post is not to fuel the chem/no-chem debate, info only to those that ask or wonder:

It seems to be widely touted that Varroa as a whole are now immune or resistant to Apistan or Check-mite. This is not true. Some varroa mites have built a resistance, not being a scientist I cannot even guess at a percentage that are or are not, however these treatments can and do still work for many beeks. I am not disputing that gross over utilization and improper application of these treatments has led to resistance, nor am i disputing that breeding is ultimately going to be the answer but the products are still approved, on the shelf, and actively used by many with positive results.


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## Buffalolick (Jan 26, 2010)

I am new to the forum and trying to catch up on these posts..I take it that there is a big debate on treating vs not treating or chemical vs organic. I am open minded to the question, but I think of it as if my kids had lice would I douse them with powdered sugar or would I go to the drug store and get the best medicated shampoo I could find and use it per label directions? I had not heard about apistain or checkmite + being inaffective..I have heard that it is feared they will become that way..didn't realize we were there. This is only my 4th year beekeeping, and I tried to avoid chemical treatments...and lost hives. I lost a hive that had K wing bees in it (actually dead on ground outside of it), in my first year so I blame that on the mites. They guy I buy nucs from suggested a yearly treatment. IPM says treat when mite count on sticky board is at X (I forget what the number is) The label reccommends treating when brood rearing is at lowest, which as far as I can tell for me is now. So, my hives have Checkmite + on them as of January 13th. Do you think this is right approach? My hives did have V mites (and SHB), could see them on the bees. I have screened bottom boards and sticky grid but I did not do a count before treatment. Just did not make the time to do it..figured I had mites and SHB, this is the right time so ..Treat the hives. Intrested to know what yall think.


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

There are many beekeepers that have seen the effectiveness of Apistan drop over the years. Most of them are not saying that Apistan is no longer effective at all but they often feel that the non-affected mite population still rises. In other words, the resistant mites still breed too fast and a tipping point is reached at which the colony declines. Worse, the mite population in that colony is quite Apistan resistant. Following the instructions given by the manufacturer is important for any treatment and, in my opinion, is sadly ignored by too many people. That goes for non-beekeeping treatments as well. It seems that if a little is good, a lot is better. That goes for length of treatment as well. Longer over shorter, no matter what the label says. Again...in my opinion...that approach is a large part of the root cause of chemical resistance and chemical abuse of the surroundings.


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## StevenG (Mar 27, 2009)

Buffalolick, only you can determine what is "right" and what is "wrong" for your management methods. I followed the chemical treat/don't treat argument for a year before jumping back into beekeeping. It was confusing, to say the least. What swayed me was the comment from several beeks that, treat or not treat, they lost hives to mites. So, I elected to go treatment free. Yes, my second year I lost a hive to mites... I assume so because of the number of dead bees with deformed wings. Since then, no losses. And no treatments. I try to buy and raise good genetics in my bees. I really hope I continue to have success. Time will tell. 

I get heartsick when I hear of beeks who lose 10% and more of their hives. They say 10-15% loss is becoming the new normal... I guess that is good, compared to the 30%+ of a few years ago. As I become aware of drug resistance in Tuberculosis, staph infections in hospitals, etc. I know that is occuring in the apiary. So personally, I want to do all possible to help the bees survive without chemicals. But as mentioned, for those who treat, the key is to follow directions explicitly. 
Regards,
Steven


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## Buffalolick (Jan 26, 2010)

Thanks StevenG. I would like go chemical free, but with so few hives, a loss is huge. Maybe with some more learning I'll get there. Honey from an untreated hive commands a premium so there's an inncentive!


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## StevenG (Mar 27, 2009)

Buffalolick, I don't know how many hives you have, but here's what happened to me. When I resumed beekeeping a few years ago, everything was different. I knew I was really starting from scratch, because of the mites and pests, etc. I decided to go cold turkey, no drugs or chemicals. I started with two packages, the following year expanded to three colonies. Over the next winter, I lost one, probably due to the mites. Found lots of bees with DWV. So, I lost 30% of my hives that year.  It was only one hive, but 1/3 of my count. I figure I can afford to lose them now, when I have so few, than in a couple of years, when I'm at 50-60 hives. 

That's my rationale, reasoning, and it works for me. Might not for anyone else. 
Regards,
Steven


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

I'm is a similar situation... getting back into beekeeping after 35 years... 3 hives last summer, lost one so far. Don't treat. Expanding this spring/summer. Looking to do some small pollination in the next couple of years.


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