# Ideal Top Bar width?



## Lauren

Hi all, I just finished my first KTBH with the help of my father. He is quite a builder and tends to run away with the project. Usually that is GREAT! But on the TBH he decided that it would be alot faster and easier if he made all of the bars 1 1/2 " wide.  They do have the triangular guide.

I am wondering if I need to cut these down before my bees arrive this weekend. What is the optimum size? 

Thanks! Lauren


----------



## Sam-Smith

1-1/2" is fine for the honey end but the broodnest needs to be 1-1/4
some people cut all their bars the same and use 1/4" spacers, some cut them all 1-3/8", I think you will have trouble in your broodnest at 1-1/2" they tend to build off center to get the spacing down to 1-1/4.


----------



## adamziegler

I would cut off the extra 1/8" from at least the first 1/3 of the hive.


----------



## Lauren

Thanks guys! I will cut 1/3 down to 1 1/4.


----------



## FindlayBee

If you make your bars larger than 1 1/4" for the brood area, the bees will most likely build 2 combs on each bar. I attempted to use all the same bar size for the brood and honey and the best advice out there is use smaller bars for brood and the larger bars for honey.

I am in the process of adding 1-1/4" bars into my brood areas. I started one hive with the 1-1/4" bars and the bees have built the best on these bars compared to the 1-3/8 bars I have in my other hives. For the most part the 1-3/8" bars have comb being built ok, but I find that when the bees get of bit off, they build 2 combs side-by-side on one bar. I tried to make things simple but made things more complicated by trying to use 1-3/8" bars for everything.


----------



## mmiller

I have 2 hives with only 1 3/8". One hive has 13 bars drawn and the other 15 bars. All are great so far. I guess we'll see with the remaining bars. I wanted to keep things as simple as possible since I am known for overcomplicating things:doh:. If I have issues I change at that point. Alot of beeks stick with 
1 3/8ths for everything.

Mike


----------



## Michael Bush

I have tried making them all 1 1/2". They cheated a little small on each bar until the combs were between the bars for brood, but did fine in honey storage. I have tried making them all 1 1/4". They did great in the brood area and then started cheating them bigger in the honey storage area. I tried making them all 1 3/8". If you're going to make one size, this works best, but again they cheated them smaller in the brood area, (but didn't get off as far) and bigger in the honey storage area (but didn't get off as far), so now I make them half and half. Half 1 1/4" and half 1 1/2". Besides that way I only have to cut half of them down, as 1 1/2" are the width of a two by...


----------



## Lauren

Thanks! I have cut 1/3 of them down to 1 1/4 inches. I also intended to add ventilation, but ran out of time. I don't have a router. 
Going to get my bees tomorrow~ I am trying my nuc attached under the TBH kind of gondola style; I would show pics but I am not sure how. 

Wish me luck!


----------



## Sam-Smith

Michael Bush said:


> I have tried making them all 1 1/2". They cheated a little small on each bar until the combs were between the bars for brood, but did fine in honey storage. I have tried making them all 1 1/4". They did great in the brood area and then started cheating them bigger in the honey storage area. I tried making them all 1 3/8". If you're going to make one size, this works best, but again they cheated them smaller in the brood area, (but didn't get off as far) and bigger in the honey storage area (but didn't get off as far), so now I make them half and half. Half 1 1/4" and half 1 1/2". Besides that way I only have to cut half of them down, as 1 1/2" are the width of a two by...


Yea this is exactly what I have observed so far, I'm using 1-1/4" so when they get to the far end of the hive I can see the comb slowly moving out of center as the cell sizes increase for honey storage. At this point I start adding 1/4" spacers.


----------



## PatBeek

.

I've been using the furring strips you buy at Home Depot or Lowe's for cheap. They are appox 1 3/8". 











I also make up a bunch of honey spacers. Those are approx 1/16-of-an-inch smaller than a 1/4-inch wide. So far so good.

I just can't see having to saw all those bars the "perfect" width, especially since I don't own a table saw yet. I only have a circular saw.


----------



## PatBeek

.

I also use these furring strips to do cut-outs. I use the half-inch hardware cloth to stab the comb onto it.

Several observations of the photos below:

1) Some of the bars appear to be stacked. I transferred a cut-out from a standard-sized top bar nuc to this larger-lengthed-bar-size barrel hive. I screwed the normal size bar to the bottom of the barrel top bar - - in case anyone was wondering why they are like that.

2) The combs will get much larger than this. They are just getting started. The hive is booming.

3) The pictures that show them flying around a lot is because they were in the middle of orientation flights. They weren't mad. They are very nice bees, thank you very much.

4) I am now making the hardware cloth with a much smaller footprint. They don't reach down nearly that far any longer.

















































*MICHAEL BUSH !!! I NEED YOUR STAMP-OF-APPROVAL !!!!!!*

.


----------



## Colino

Help! Someone forgot to tell my Bees, I built all my Topbars 1-1/2 inches wide and everything is working right in both hives. When I start checkerboarding next spring should I use 1-1/4 inch then in the brood nest? Or will it be alright to continue with 1-1/2 inch? Of course all of this depends if they make it through the winter. Thanks.


----------



## Rader Sidetrack

If you used 1 1/2" bars in the brood nest, and your bees built straight comb without joining it to an adjacent bar, then you may be over the hump. You can add new bars to the brood nest between existing straight bars,, and the odds are good that new bars will also get built straight. 

As it is the honey bars that will get rebuilt after a harvest, and those are suggested at 1 1/2 inches, you should be OK.


----------



## Kilted Beekeeper

I'm a first year beekeeper, but I second Pat's furring strips. I used the same and have had no troubles this year at 1 3/8".


----------



## Joseph Clemens

Don't forget, whatever width you use for your Top Bars, it works best if your comb guides are centered, though it will work even if they aren't centered (the bees will adjust their comb placement, accordingly). Most likely it's my OCD-like tendencies that are speaking here. I just have a strong preference for everything to be uniform and balanced, even Top Bars in a Top Bar hive.

I have usually used Top Bars that are 1-1/4" wide, but recently began using Top Bars 1-5/16" wide, without noticing any problems.


----------



## madasafish

All my 4 TBHs and 4 TBH nucs use 1.5 inch wide bars. No problems at all.


----------



## Colino

Hello madasafish:
Did you just rip them off of 2x4 or 2x6 like I did? I don't seem to have problems and I used string and beeswax as a comb guide.


----------



## madasafish

I bought pre cut strip and added a triangular comb guide underneath. Rubbed with a bar of candlewax.. KISS.


----------



## PatBeek

madasafish said:


> I bought pre cut strip and added a triangular comb guide underneath. Rubbed with a bar of candlewax.. KISS.


 What are you using for your triangular comb guide? I've been getting the triangular molding from the big box hardware stores. They are about six bucks per eight-foot strip. I'd like to find cheaper.


----------



## madasafish

PatBeek said:


> What are you using for your triangular comb guide? I've been getting the triangular molding from the big box hardware stores. They are about six bucks per eight-foot strip. I'd like to find cheaper.


I cut a square section of wood approx 3/4 inch square. Then I cut it along a diagonal using a handheld jigsaw to produce two triangular sections. They are not perfect, but the bees don't care. I pin and glue (PU glue) to the underneath of the topbar. I'll find a picture later and post it..


----------



## madasafish

PatBeek said:


> What are you using for your triangular comb guide? I've been getting the triangular molding from the big box hardware stores. They are about six bucks per eight-foot strip. I'd like to find cheaper.


I cut a square section of wood approx 3/4 inch square. Then I cut it along a diagonal# using a handheld jigsaw to produce two triangular sections. They are not perfect, but the bees don't care. I pin and glue (PU glue) to the underneath of the topbar. 
# holding it diagonally in an old Black And Decker Workmate (wood vice)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157636895293793/


----------



## TheGeneralsBees

madasafish said:


> All my 4 TBHs and 4 TBH nucs use 1.5 inch wide bars. No problems at all.


Same for me. 1-1/2 works well in brood and honey area. If anything the bees want a wider bar than that in the honey stores, I have never had an issue in the brood area with 1-1/2"


----------



## Michael Bush

>MICHAEL BUSH !!! I NEED YOUR STAMP-OF-APPROVAL !!!!!!

No, you only need the bees' stamp of approval...


----------



## PatBeek

Michael Bush said:


> >MICHAEL BUSH !!! I NEED YOUR STAMP-OF-APPROVAL !!!!!!
> 
> No, you only need the bees' stamp of approval...


 That statement is very true indeed. People often argue as to what method or equipment works best, but we often times forget what the bees have to say.


----------

