# Tell me why this is a bad idea



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

What about Numbered Disc Tags?


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## Beregondo (Jun 21, 2011)

If you want a record of who buys what strain of bee when, I'd suggest just keeping a record.

If you want to confuse your customers so that the ones who want to replace year old queens can't figure out which ones are that age, mark them with non-standard colors.

If you want them to buy queens from Tarboo or Old Sol next time, confuse them.

Or, put 2 colors on the thorax, one being the standard color for the year.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

I once read an article and on you tube vids that the author said there is no such thing as a pure genetic bees anymore. They are all mutts after a few generations because the drone pool got mixed in drone congregation areas unless you somehow isolated them in mating yards to maintain their purity. So even with genetic testing of your queens it is hard to tell which lines they come from. We can only say their physical characteristics look like this type of bees. For example, when I see a yellow type bee then I will say she's an Italian queen bee. Also when I see the darker color bee I will say she's a carniolan queen bee. Anything in between is a mixed type queen bee. But if a dark Russian and Carniolan mixed then I cannot say what they are, really by the color. I always asked my local queen supplier what type of bees they are. Every time they hesitated for a while before giving me an answer. Many will say oh, carni, italian, mixed. Some will on purpose chose the Italian or Carniolan knowing what I like by the queen color. Now I have both Italian and Carniolan queens from the same original queen which I don't mind knowing genetic diversity is good for them and me. 
This is to give you an idea what it is like when running multiple lines of genetics. An idea I have is to use number disc tags along with a small dap of the year color on the side. This way you can track both. Universal color will not do because it will confuse the beekeeper more because of so many lines and queens raised each year. And color alone will not tell you much about where they come from. Must have a data base to keep track of them for your record. And for others also when they ask you. Just tell them I have both or these, which do you prefer?
Ohh, almost forget to say a picture speaks a thousand words. So take a pic before sending them off to your customers. Very easy to maintain pics these days.


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## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

If you have different lines in the same breeding location, then in all reality you have the same lines or strains. As well as the lines of every beekeeper within 2 ½ miles. And every feral colony. Research suggest that drones travel farther than do queens or workers to reach drone gathering areas. When a queen visits one for breeding she may be bred by as many as 20 different drones. Unless you are in a very remote mountainous region, or on a secluded island you cannot even begin to determine the strain or lines of bees. We can only categorizes bees by their color and trait characteristics in it’s broadest sense.
so mark with the year and catigorize them by characteristics. log customer info for future reference and roll with it.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

If you do you should probably use completely different colers than the ones for years. 

You probably don't want to do this, but from some of the old books they used to mark queens by clipping the wings - left for even years right for odd or vise versa. Not fool proof but better than nothing. And more permanent than paint.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Looks like disk numbers will be the way to go. 
I know every generation gets diluted, but I still want to know what lines they originated from. They will still retain some of those genetics. I can still select from those that exhibit those traits I feel are positive for that line and continue with my program.
Thanks for the input


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

If you mark the queens differently I would try to use different shades of the current year's color and/or use nonstandard secondary colors for further identification if you felt the need.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

Beregondo said:


> If you want a record of who buys what strain of bee when, I'd suggest just keeping a record.
> 
> If you want to confuse your customers so that the ones who want to replace year old queens can't figure out which ones are that age, mark them with non-standard colors.
> 
> ...


I couldn't agree more. The queen color code is as much of a standard as we have, and as producers/breeders we need to respect this standard. Customers rely on the color code meaning something that is accepted in the industry. I would be very upset if my new queen came this year with a yellow dot. I can see the conversation going something like "No, trust me, it really is a 2013 queen."


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Ok Ok, you talked me out of it. 
The lure of quick information at a glance isn't worth the confusion down the road.
I knew that, just wanted you all to tell me again Talk me out of a dumb move


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I know you are clever enough to paint the queens thorax w/ this years color and then, after the paint has dried, paint half w/ a color code of your own.

How many different shades of fingernail polish do you have? Or Model Paint can be used.

I think it's a good idea. Don't give up so quickly.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Thanks Mark, I had considered that too. 
As for fingernail polish..Hee hee, my only color is dirt.
But I'll come up with something good.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Lauri, if I were you I would not be too much concern with how they are mixed. They will in natural environment anyway. Concentrate on how they look like on physical color. Like others have said the special characteristics are more important. If I were the customer I will be concern on 1) What do you have? Ohh, a golden Italian, great that's what I want to keep. 2) What do they do? Special characteristics I will sell. 3) Where you got them from? I got it from here and here apiary. 4) Mark this year color for easy ID. 5) Snap a pic of F3 queen from hive #1 and upload. Sold to Mr. Woody down the road in case he ask me about this queen again 2 years later. 
If you like you can make ID cards to give him and save a record for your future references.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Do numbered discs come in year colors?


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

sqkcrk said:


> Do numbered discs come in year colors?


Yes, I already have red ones from Mann Lake who now carries them. I got a full set of colors from a store in Canada last year..I didn't use them since I mark the virgins when they hatch and felt the disk would really be pushing it as far as inhibiting them during mating flights. I'll mark them lightly when hatched with a paint pen, then disk mark them later after mating.

http://www.mannlakeltd.com/beekeeping-supplies/page55.html
(They call them Queen marking numbers at the bottom of the page)


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

sqkcrk said:


> Do numbered discs come in year colors?


Yes, 
http://www.beeworks.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=125

Thorne in the UK also sells them.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

http://www.beeworks.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=125


Yup, those are the ones I have > I was wondering how well a red marker would show up. The red disks from both sources are a very bright flo-orange. (My favorite color for my arrow fletches) should make locating the queen a two second task.

I think I have my plans for the first batch of queens..Right out of MY NEW INCUBATOR, thanks to Velbert for dropping me some inside info on a cool quality reptile incubator.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-2013-Ex...ultDomain_0&hash=item19db2c7376#ht_4858wt_929


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## KevinR (Apr 30, 2010)

If your selling them, mark them with the proper color and record where your grafts came from.

If these are for your "mother" queens, then color them whatever you want. They are your queens.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

That is a cool reptile incubator. 
Do you have back up solar or generator in case there is a power outage?
Maybe take them out off the hives 2-3 days before they hatch then.


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

I like the idea. It will make your queens stand out.

Here are some links I don't know how helpful they will be.
Maybe they will inspire you!

http://entomology.ifas.ufl.edu/walker/fe64p18.pdf

http://entnemdept.ufl.edu/walker/en95p117.pdf


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