# Dead or Alive



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I learned again today that working a dead hive is more work than working a live one. Especially if they starved.

I brought bees up North from South Carolina early and light. Instead of feeding them before I ran back south for my nucs, I figured they would be okay and continue living. Boy was I wrong. A yard of 32 colonies died back to 8. And shucks, don't ya know it, those clusters were biguns.

Maybe I should keep this sort of thing to myself. But, the next time I take bees to blueberries they are going to get fed one way or another. And when an apple grower wants bees brought North Historically early I'm going to resist complying w/ the request. Bees got up here on April 15 and real bloom didn't happen until a week ago Monday.

What about a penalty paid by a grower who wants bees early? Not that I am really blaming the growers for the condition of my bees. That's my responsibility. I always blame the beekeeper.


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

Was it bees that had been in the BBs that starved? I remember helping you switch hive bodies and at least the ones I helped you with did not seem light. Of course a big hive can gobble a lot of feed and they did seem like big hives.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I don't think they were. I don't recall seeing the tags we put on the BB Bees.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Deadouts are never a joy but when you know you could/should have avoided it...it is especially painful. It keeps me in guilt pangs for a long time. 
On the other hand, those really painful lessons usually stick well.


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

So it does seem pretty certain that the early return caused it. Now that you are out of the apples (guess you are out?), did the orchard guys really have to have them that early? Or could you have waited another couple weeks?


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

Apples were a couple weeks early here [blueberries too]. There were lots of dandelions and bees came off the apples [last week] here in good shape.


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

Why did you see losses in that yard of 32 and not the rest?
Where those hives lighter?
Did bees in other yards have a little forage while this one had none?


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## scdw43 (Aug 14, 2008)

My bees flew all winter long, that burns up a lot of feed. I had several hives to starve because the queen laid a bunch of brood in a lower box, during a warm spell. The weather turned cold and they could not move the honey. The bees would not leave the brood to move up in a deep full of honey. When the honey was used up around the cluster they starved, on top of the brood. Four frames of brood, 8 inches in diameter in January. Ten more days of warm weather the brood would have hatched and those hives would be filling their second super right now. I will take a cold winter any year instead of a warm one.


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## Skinner Apiaries (Sep 1, 2009)

lol I was amused to read about someone working someone elses that dont work their own. Sorry to hear about that Mark, alot of these this way are very heavy. I think we're going to move into the mountains, all this rain, gonna chase the flow.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

When bringing big singles back from the south the weight just seems to fall off of them. No matter how well the move goes they are disrupted for the better part of a week before you get them settled on new locations. For us last year was the worst ever, we fed most of the way through June. It has happened to us all to some degree, its just that not many would want to post it on Beesource.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Mbeck said:


> Why did you see losses in that yard of 32 and not the rest?
> Where those hives lighter?
> Did bees in other yards have a little forage while this one had none?


I can tell you how it works for us. First of all there is always some variation in location productivity but the biggest factor is the number of field bees your nucs have available when the flow hits. If the queen catch was delayed or the hive populations not quite as good when they were made up then they just dont have the population needed to bring in enough nectar to get ahead. By the time they get big enough the flow is over and you end up with a whole bunch of hungry bees. Its frustrating because you try so hard to equalize them but there are always variations even within yards.


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## Skinner Apiaries (Sep 1, 2009)

hfcs ftw


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## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

An Old timer told me once" Run your business don't let it run you".
With price of honey spiking even higher this year. I'm putting more hives out then normal, in hopes of hitting it big this year. Really how many hives can one guy work.:scratch:


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Mbeck said:


> Why did you see losses in that yard of 32 and not the rest?
> Where those hives lighter?
> Did bees in other yards have a little forage while this one had none?


Luck of the draw? I have seen some losses in the other two yards, just not that many in one yard. Most of my hives are in the apple orchards and have been since April 15th, so I haven't seen them since then and expect to find some loss amongst them. I have replaced 4 over there already.

For me, even though the blueberry experience and money was good and I learned a little something, my time in SC wasn't what it could have/should have been. Had to pull 200 colonys together for BBs. Got a sinus infection which screwed me up. Initial splitting went pretty well at first, but didn't have good success w/ queen cells. Probably because of the weather as much as anything. We had nectar shaking out in late March, but then it shut off w/ 28 degree nights. I didn't think that feeding was necassary and my system was in NY anyway. Syrup source hard to find too. Second splitting go round didn't have time to work, nor the usual nectar flow to gain weight on, because of apple pollination pressure. So, one thing after another.

Yeah, HH, I gotta work on working the beesto their benefit and not to someone elses. I'm a slow learner. I hope I have time to get it right.

So, Skinner, if I got a syrup source setup relatively nearby, how much would you be willing to pay for syrup? How much above delivered cost?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I hear that stationary hivesoverwintered here in NY are throwing off swarms already. I don't know if I would want to trade one problem for the other, but, at least w/ really low winterloss they have bees to work w/ and to work against the swarming.


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## Bill Russell (Aug 12, 2006)

Starved out is sarved out but... has anybody noticed that when bringing bees north 20 years ago it seemed like light bees could just sit there not making a living for m7-10 days and still survive. In the last 10 years it seems like if they aren't on a flow within a few days there will be a few starved out ones on each load. This year i had maybe 10 starve out after 2 days on the road and 2 days of not flying on dandelion. They were on a light flow before being loaded. I chaulk it up to my (our) bees are just FRAGILE; not as tough as they use to be.


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

Is it possible that Queens are just more productive and slower to slow down laying?

I had bees in palmetto flow that were heavy, I moved them to the coast where there was little flow and they quickly became very light. I had to feed while hives 5 miles away where putting up a nice surplus.

The queen kept laying in these hives even though they where having a tough time making a living. 
It's almost like once you turn them on with a flow the queen ramps up production for a certain period of time no matter what.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

hpm08161947 said:


> So it does seem pretty certain that the early return caused it. Now that you are out of the apples (guess you are out?), did the orchard guys really have to have them that early? Or could you have waited another couple weeks?


If the apple grower could have known that the weather was going to turn to normal cold and cause the bloom to slow to a stop then he probably wouldn't have needed them. the bees were in the orchards down here for over three weeks due to the weather, how do you tell the orchard guy I'll bee there later and then the weather stays warm. would lose you the money and next years contract. Not only are all the bees swarming, but the hives are extremely light, and also watch for them being pollen bound, my hives looked like they were in the middle of a golden rod flow with the entrances turning yellow from all the polen they were bringing in, but no nectar.


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