# handles on the boxes????



## dirt road (Jan 4, 2011)

No reason at all. If they're your boxes, do it whichever way you prefer.


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## brooksbeefarm (Apr 13, 2008)

I put a 1"x 2" board across the front and back(with glue and screws) of my boxes,the bees don't care.


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

I make all my own equipment, and if it wasn't for being able to put boxes right up next to each other tightly, either for storage or in the beeyard, I would attach handles to the outside of the boxes instead of cutting them into the box like I do. It's just a little inconvenient having the handles stick out for what I want to do in my operation. John


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Every box I own.


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## Heavenly bees (Mar 27, 2011)

jmgi said:


> I make all my own equipment, and if it wasn't for being able to put boxes right up next to each other tightly, either for storage or in the beeyard, I would attach handles to the outside of the boxes instead of cutting them into the box like I do. It's just a little inconvenient having the handles stick out for what I want to do in my operation. John


you could just stagger them that way one is higher on one side and the other is lower that way if u have to store them the would fit together pretty nicely
that the way i do it


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

The type of handles Odfrank has on his boxes are great IF you don't need to stack them side by side or end to end. The slope cut top and bottom (I use 30 degrees) works both to shed water and to make them easy to pick up, and I leave a small flat on the bottom, more comfortable.

However, handles or cleats take up more room when you are loading hundreds of hives onto a truck. If you don't plan to stack them that close, by all means use cleats or handles, they are MUCH nicer to pick up.

I use scrap for mine, so they vary in length from about six to about eight inches long, I don't make them full width. No reason not to, but most of my scrap isn't that long. Put them low enough for a telescoping cover to fully seat if they are the top box and you use telescoping covers.

Peter


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## rail (Apr 1, 2011)

odfrank said:


> Every box I own.


Are those Mann Lake boxes?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Well made deeply scalloped hand holds work great. Hardware handles screwed into your boxes are fine, but you won't be able to stack boxes close together when you want to. But, go for it. They're your boxes.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

odfrank - good workmanship is a thing of beauty and those handles are beauties! I'd go with those for sure.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

rail said:


> Are those Mann Lake boxes?


Yes, those are. These are homemade jumbo depth, dado joints. Same handles:








And these are cut comb depth, for carrying up and down to the hives on my deck, same specs:


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## CherylO (Feb 21, 2013)

Thank you everyone ...handles it is.....I have only just gotten my first hive...hundreds on a truck probably not.....:>)....I love the angle on those wooden handles...


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## cerezha (Oct 11, 2011)

As far as I do understand, for non-commercial beekeepers, the advantage of not having real handles is that one could put box on the side during the inspection. The Odfrank design seems to me very good because one still could put the box on the front side and at the same time use handles when necessary.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

If one stands their super full of combs on their side the combs will fall against each other, which can be a problem. It can squash bees needlessly or crush honey comb, exposing honey when stood back on top of the hive.

Sergey, I would say it has little to do w/ being commercial. It's the industry standard design. Because it works and works well for all applications.

You may never have the opportunity, but when it comes time to sell youir equipment handholds cut into the sides have the highest sales value. imo, of course.


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## brooksbeefarm (Apr 13, 2008)

If you put cleats on your hives be sure to put them down far enough that the lip on your lid will let the lid fit flush on top of the hive. I remember someone doing that.


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## cerezha (Oct 11, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> If one stands their super full of combs on their side the combs will fall against each other, which can be a problem. It can squash bees needlessly or crush honey comb, exposing honey when stood back on top of the hive.


 In Bee-class, they teach us to put removed from the hive boxes vertically on its back side (opposite to the entrance) - this way,frames do not smash. It is not my invention - many beekeepers do the same.



sqkcrk said:


> Sergey, I would say it has little to do w/ being commercial. It's the industry standard design. Because it works and works well for all applications.


 My boxes are not standard - they designed to be used with top bars. Since, I am permitted to have only 2 beehives - the design of the hardware is not important and I am experimenting.



sqkcrk said:


> You may never have the opportunity, but when it comes time to sell youir equipment handholds cut into the sides have the highest sales value. imo, of course.


 Not for me - I would never recover the money (time) I invested in my hardware - my hardware is expensive and I have no intention to sell it. Sorry, beekeeping to me is not about money. It is hobby to me.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

sqkcrk said:


> If one stands their super full of combs on their side the combs will fall against each other, which can be a problem. It can squash bees needlessly or crush honey comb, exposing honey when stood back on top of the hive..


Are we talking SIDE or END? I stand them on their end all the time because I use frame spacers in most of my honey supers, and we have a lot of propolis. No frame sliding problems. I would never stand them on their side.


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## ddb123 (Jun 20, 2012)

Here are four boxes, each with a different handle!


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## cerezha (Oct 11, 2011)

odfrank said:


> Are we talking SIDE or END?...


 They teach us to stand them on the END, so frames are vertical - the rationale is that frames are fixed enough by propolis. This approach was used on the boxes, which were removed from the hive to have access to the nest. They quickly removed all boxes and stand them vertically,do inspection and return boxes back. Once returned back (horizontal on the hive), each box if necessary was inspected. So, basically, they started inspection from the bottom and then go up adding boxes.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

odfrank said:


> Are we talking SIDE or END? I stand them on their end all the time because I use frame spacers in most of my honey supers, and we have a lot of propolis. No frame sliding problems. I would never stand them on their side.


Maybe I misunderstood Sergey's Post, but I thought he meant their side.

So, w/ the cleats across the end, standing them on their end, they never fall back down? How much more do they weigh? Seems like people are quite often curious about how to make equipment lighter.

I stand lots of boxes on end when doing all sorts of hive manipulation. But, when I was taight how to do hive Inspection, especially for guys like Michael Palmer, I was taught to stack boxes in the cover and criss cross each other, not on their end. There are a number of ways.

Cleats are good if that's what you like.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

I usually stack them, but if I stand them up I sometimes lean them against something, like another hive. Section shallows with a cleat are likely to get knocked over. Mediums and deeps are more stable. The cleat allows me to pick up boxes with one hand.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Getting ready for work? You're up early.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Old man insomnia and a full moon.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Gotcha.


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## rhaldridge (Dec 17, 2012)

I've been enjoying some of the old out-of-copyright bee books, and in one (and I can't remember which, except that it was a well-known beekeeper of the 19th or early 20th century) the author said that all his boxes had cleats running all the way across. His reasoning had to do with what in his mind was the proper way to pick up boxes-- with the cleats resting on the forearms and the hands on the far corners, so that the box was close to the body and under control.

I don't know if there's anything to this, but he was fairly adamant about this being the only proper way to lift a box.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

It would be hard to toss the box up onto the truck that way.

odfrank, how do you attatch the cleat to the box? Do you attatch it to the box after the box is built? How do you make the cleat? Rip a 2x4 in half at a fourtyfive degree angle? Do you leave the angle sharp?


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## rhaldridge (Dec 17, 2012)

Mark, I think they had wagons and farm hands to do the heavy work... in fact the idea was framed by a little story about a hired hand being disgruntled about the lack of cleats on some boxes the beekeeper had recently acquired. I guess this was before migratory beekeeping was a thing.

Not to answer for odfrank, but it looks to me like the first cut is at a much smaller angle, and then the fence is reset to the width of the cleat and the stock is fed through the saw as many times as it will go without running out of wood. I'd run the bottom edge across a stationary belt sander to take the sharp off, then glue and screw. That's really an elegant design solution, in my opinion. As you say, it wouldn't work for migratory beekeepers.

I have to say, though, that I've stolen a lot of ideas from migratory beekeepers. For example, I'm using migratory tops on my Langs. That just makes more sense to me... why have an inner cover if you don't really need one?


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