# Prospective Beekeeper in Idaho



## bfbeekeeper (Nov 20, 2014)

Hello Beesource,

I've been lurking here for awhile yet, reading reading reading. Everything I've read on here says the best resource is yourself, so I've been doing just that.

I'm planning on getting started this coming spring with two hives like everyone recommends. I'm originally from North Idaho near the Canadian border, but have been gone for five years to Texas, but work has brought me back home. After being in Texas working in the Border Patrol I spent lots of time in several Pecan orchards and farmland along the southern border, I noticed hives everywhere and always had a curiosity. I even had the chance to purchase a few jars of local honey which was delicious! Being that I owned no land in Texas, I was never able to give it a try. I am finally in a position in Idaho to do just that, I have 16 acres of my own land here and live on a half acre lot in the county, with several wheat fields and fruit trees nearby. I see several hive boxes here around the county here in the summer but never noticed them before, probably due to the fact that I wasn't really interested when I lived here prior. I got a lead on a local beekeeper here so I am going to attempt to start a conversation with him and see if he's willing to introduce me to his girls. 

I have some woodworking skills and several tools at my disposal, and had a plan from some stuff I have read on some threads here and wanted to ask before I solidify my plan.

I plan on having two hives, each 3 deep. I am a pretty large guy, I work out regularly and consider myself stronger than most, so a 90lb super doesn't concern me.

Does anyone here see a problem with a beginner starting out with two hives, each 3 deep? From what I've read, one of the reasons (among many) that hives swarm is because they feel they don't have enough space, and I'd like to eliminate at least the space problem.

Thanks for all the information you guys provide here! It has been entertaining to read all about this world I knew nothing about to say the least.

-Bfbeekeeper (North Idaho, Zone 5b)


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Welcome to Beesource!

Many beekeepers will maintain a mental separation of the "brood boxes" from "honey supers". The brood boxes have (some) honey as do all the boxes, but the honey in the brood boxes is for the bees to winter on. So 3 deep (brood boxes) for your colonies to winter in is perfectly suitable. Some would say that _two _would be fine instead.

But while you are making boxes, it would be a good idea to make more than 3 per hive. If you want to use deeps as honey supers - depending on local conditions - 5 or 6 deeps per hive might be a number to prepare for.

If you haven't yet found the _Build It Yourself_ area with plans for about everything, click here:
http://www.beesource.com/build-it-yourself/


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

Why are you only "prospective"? Sounds to me as if you've taken the plunge mentally, but just need to make it so! You're hooked already.

Beekeepers have used 10-frame deeps for a very long time, and there's nothing wrong with big, strong beekeepers going that route.

The push to 8-frame and medium hardware has been welcomed by elderly beekeepers and women. You don't need the lighter weight, but if you are hoping to hook friends or family members who fit this description into your soon-to-be addiction, they might appreciate lighter woodenware.

I've got one hive at the moment that decided to fill an 8-frame deep with honey for the winter. I can lift it, but I grunt, and I would not be happy if it were the top super of 4. It is hopeless for my wife, and she's a hard-working gal with a habit of moving rocks around.

You can always add 10-frame mediums as your needs expand, if you find the deeps tiresome.

I try to always have at least one complete hive of spare parts on hand, plus enough supers, frames, etc. to satisfy the max I expect the hives to need in late summer. A couple of nuc boxes on hand are a good idea, too. If you think you might like to catch a swarm, you need something to put them in on short notice, and you will probably want a couple of boxes as swarm traps in early summer.


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## bfbeekeeper (Nov 20, 2014)

Thanks for the information Rader, I appreciate the reply.

I more or less suspected that mental separation, which is why I planned on having a deep super. I would leave the two bottom deeps as the brood boxes and take nothing. Other than a queen excluder (which I've read is often times referred to as a honey excluder), what would prevent the queen from laying brood in the top box? I'm still having trouble understanding this, does the queen lay her brood in the bottom and stick to that general area, or lay all over the place wherever she can get to? I just have fears of having honey / brood all mixed together and not being able to enjoy any because of brood mixed in, I'm sure it's a common fear. 

My only real goal is to have a few jars to give around the family, and have fun watching / studying the hive. The cells and comb look so alien to me, it's just plain fun to look at pictures. I can't wait to see some of my own. 

I don't intend to sell, unless I had an exorbitant amount of honey, which I doubt with two hives. Who knows though, that two hives might quickly turn to 10 if I get really hooked, I read stories of that all the time on here.


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## bfbeekeeper (Nov 20, 2014)

Thank you for the reply Phoebee,

I guess you are right, I have taken the plunge mentally. The real test is making it happen physically! My wife will be taking a two week vacation back to Texas and I plan to spend all my free time building the boxes in my father's shop. I suppose some shallow supers might be good if my wife takes an interest, maybe I will build a few of those so my wife can have a hive as well. 

Thank you for the information on the extra hardware, I'll take that into account. It was something I hadn't thought of. I'm not sure how common swarms are up here, there are beekeepers around, but none that I know of around the location which I plan to have my hives. Do you know if there are feral honeybees in my location? The winters are really harsh here, and to be honest with you I have spent a LOT of time in the woods and never stumbled upon any hives, just yellowjacket nests. That doesn't mean they aren't there though.

Thanks again.


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## Hogback Honey (Oct 29, 2013)

BFBeekeeper, welcome. I started in April of this year with two hives, then added more, so now I have 3. It kind of grows, I realized I needed a bunch of frames for my honey supers, got them just in time. You end up with all kinds of extra stuff, supers, ekes, quilts....... I've a tack room in my barn that if half full of bee stuff. Hey, thanks for guarding our boarders, I really appreciate it, bet you are glad to be headed back to your home state. I love Idaho, and a LOT of my coworkers moved there when they retired. Tons of Retired LEO's there.


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## devonchristensen (Aug 21, 2014)

BFBeekeeper,
You're making me homesick; grew up in Post Falls and spent a majority of my free time backpacking the high country outside of Bonners Ferry with my dad (Caribou Creek, Ball Creek, Myrtle Creek...). Certainly is a gorgeous area. Good luck on the beekeeping endeavors. I haven't started keeping yet, either; much like yourself just doing a lot of research and figure out how I want thing set up when my family and I stop moving around, settle in one area, and have the stability to start my own hives. With the climate in that area of Idaho, if that is the area where our roving stops, I was leaning towards the Russian bees, the only drawback being the lack of local sources for packages/nucs/queens.

Do they still grow hops in that area? Not sure if they are a good source of nectar or pollen, but if so "hops honey" might be a good niche market.

Regards,
Devon


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## bfbeekeeper (Nov 20, 2014)

Devonchristensen,

Bonners Ferry is definitely one of the most beautiful places, I am bias though, I was born and raised here. 

Budweiser grows hops here right on the Canadian Border, but my land is farther south of Bonners Ferry, and I have another property right outside the city limits of Bonners Ferry. I'd rather have my hives accessible near my house than driving 40 minutes just to check on them. 

As far as species of bees, I have to be honest I haven't done a whole lot of research. I was planning on finding someone local to buy bees from, I hear there is a big Apiary in Western Montana near Flathead Lake that has bee packages / nucs for sale, the drive is only 3 hours from here. I'd rather do that than have them go through shipping. I will do some research on that subject though.


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## RAK (May 2, 2010)

Welcome to beesource. If you need any advice, queens, or nucs, feel free to message me.


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

I have no idea if you have feral hives, except to say there are those here who say there are way more feral hives out there than most of us realize.

But even if you don't collect somebody else's swarms, with a little luck and care your bees ought to go crazy about May-June, a little later where you are than down here. They'll lay brood like crazy and build up the population. Once the hive gets crowded, there are only a limited number of outcomes. 

1) You do nothing, they raise a new queen, and the old queen takes off with maybe half the workers. So you have a swarm to catch, but it is yours.

2) You get ahead of the situation and split the hive. This is pretty much the same thing except you managed the process and don't need to go chasing them down.

3) You wave goodbye as the swarm leaves, and don't go after them. This happens a lot but our local bee inspector would call it bad management, and in an urban area it would be highly irresponsible. But maybe some other beekeeper would get a swarm call and go catch them.

Anyway, be it to catch somebody else's swarm, or to deal with your own population increase, having the makings of an extra hive or two is very handy in the summer. Particularly with swarms, you generally need to move fast.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

> a 90lb super doesn't concern me.

So you pry the 90 pounds deep box loose from the box below and try to lift it, except the weight has stuck it back down and now you lifting 180 pounds...


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## bfbeekeeper (Nov 20, 2014)

Thanks for the advice Michael, I'll take that into consideration. 

Maybe I'll do mediums.


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## bfbeekeeper (Nov 20, 2014)

Thanks RAK, you may be hearing from me, Spokane is only a 2 hour drive from here, so that is convenient!


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## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

Welcome BFB!


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

The only compelling argument for deeps for a new amateur beekeeper is a very good argument, and it is why my wife and I have deeps for our brood boxes. We got our first bees as nucleus colonies, i.e. nucs, which are most frequently offered on deep frames. Medium nucs can be found but most are made from commercial deep brood frames. There are advantages for new beekeepers starting with nucs ... fast start, they come with some comb, the queen is laying, and installation of a nuc is dead-simple-easy. Our bee club pushes nucs and encourages its members to make nucs for students of our bee school.

So look into how you want to get started. If you will be using package bees, use whatever suits you ... the bees flat don't care, as long as they have the space they need (3 mediums is about the same as 2 deeps). If you will start with nucs, find out if your source uses deeps or mediums. Brood boxes are light, and there is nothing wrong with deeps for brood.

Our club's more experienced beekeepers find keeping up with several sizes of boxes and frames to be a pain, and tend to migrate to all mediums over time.

The commercial migratory pollinator hives I see in our area use mostly deeps.


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## bfbeekeeper (Nov 20, 2014)

Based on what Mr. Bush said, and your statement about everyone migrating to mediums, I think I'll do just that ahead of time instead of falling it on myself later.


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