# What to consider and when to act against SHB?



## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Upon first seeing a beetle it is properly pressure tested if possible.

Prior to this, beetle traps have already installed.

I agree with you that the fewer places for them to hide the better the ladies will be able to keep them under lock and key. The colony large enough to have enough bees to invest in guarding the beetles without hurting their nursing and foraging abilities is definitely a good thing.

I'm a rank newbee so not a lot of experience, yet. I'm sure this spring/summer will initiate me more fully to the cursed black dots. inch:

Ed


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## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

Strong hive and "minimal area for the beetle to hide" are the same. A five frame medium and a double ten frame deep are equally defensible if crowded with bees.
If you are thinking about cracks, crevices, frame rests and other places to hide, certainly reduce these opportunities. Once again two supers have more areas of opportunity than a quarter in the single five frame.
Preemptive defense includes screened bottom boards with oil trays underneath, beetle traps, placement in full sun, defensive genetics, sacrificial drone brood and breaking the brood cycle.
You can also raise stronger survivor beetles by knocking out the weaker beetles with Coumaphos if you prefer their plight.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

From my newbee viewpoint I think AB stated a *very* important point...."placement in full sun". 

I might also add....placement on high, dry ground. Full sun and dry ground creating an arid micro-climate in the apiary seems to be a positive thing. I think moisture or lack of it has a lot to do with a bee yard being attractive or less attractive to SHB....but, I'm a newbee which is kinda like a 900# gorilla in the room. 

Thanks, AB, for also reinforcing the understanding of creating stronger creatures by reducing the number of weaker ones...it does apply to both good and bad critters alike.

Ed


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## papar (Apr 10, 2007)

If you come across a hive that appears to have large numbers of beetles is it safe to say your hive is not strong enough to defend and will eventually fall prey? Can you shake bees off capped brood and transfer it out of a hive to save some portion of that colony?

Thanks


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

"You can also raise stronger survivor beetles by knocking out the weaker beetles with Coumaphos if you prefer their plight."
Your funny Americans Beekeeper!

Please tell us about sacrificial drone brood and SHB.


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## fish_stix (May 17, 2009)

Yes! Please tell us!


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## max2 (Dec 24, 2009)

papar said:


> If you come across a hive that appears to have large numbers of beetles is it safe to say your hive is not strong enough to defend and will eventually fall prey?
> 
> I have had very strong and productive hives decimated by SHB in no time.
> All the suggestions mentioned I find are useful but there is no rest in warm, humid weather. We just had 5 inches of rain and the humidity is up and I watched SHB fly in in the late afternoon. I find changing traps very regularly helps.


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## papar (Apr 10, 2007)

Okay. Thanks for the info.


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## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

Removing brood from an already weakened hive does more harm than good, unless there are small hive beetle larva on that frame.
Sorry, sacrificial drone brood and breaking the brood cycle are for Varroa. 
Killing small hive beetles in the soil as they pupate with Gard Star, pyrethrine is another option. They will crawl over a hundred yards so unless the apiary is a parking lot they will find dirt. Some of my student beekeepers have good success with chickens that eat them when they drop from the hive.
Entrance reducers so the intruders do not get in has helped in my hives. I run two one inch openings the last couple years.
I also have a set of black covers for when the beetle numbers are up.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

I think that I have learned to recognize a "point of no return" beetle infestation - where there aren't larva, but there are so many beetles that there soon will be. I've tried several things at that point including reducing to a much smaller setup and freezing the extra frames - and it has worked as far as "saving" the hive - but so far I haven't had much luck in those becoming thriving hives again any time soon. Matter of fact I have a couple of those that are overwintering right now, and the last time I looked they still had elevated SHB populations. 

I suspect that there are other stress causing factors involved, and that the beetles are a symptom of an unhealthy hive - as well as a plague on their own.

I Hate SHB. I might get a bumper sticker that says that.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

David, how many hours of full sunlight do your hives get? What kind of soil in your bee yard proper? And lastly, what type of traps are you using? Thanks.

Ed


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Full sun after about 9 AM - my bee yard used to be a vegetable garden, so pretty fair well drained clay based soil - no traps this past year. I was trying the "strong hives in full sun" method - which didn't go as badly as it probably sounds like. Hive beetles were bad all over the area this past year, and I only actually lost one full sized hive because of them - several mating nucs though. So I got to experience losing some hives without it being too painful. 

Year before last I used oil pan traps which didn't really seem to be effective enough to suit me - although looking back maybe they worked better than I thought - but they are sooo nasty I really don't want to use them If I can find another way. I might try them next year but use diatomaceous earth instead of oil.

Next season I'm going to deal with the beetles more aggressively using traps and whatnot, but also I'm going to try to avoid stressing my hives in other ways as much as possible.


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## StevenG (Mar 27, 2009)

From what I have read, unless you live in the deep south where the shb is nearly a year round threat, treating the ground is too late.

From what I have personally experienced, traps, traps, and more traps. Even strong hives will have problems with beetles, if they have no place to which the bees can chase the beetles, and the beetles then die. For cost and ease of use, I decided against the hive bottom traps. I use the beetle jails or AJ's or variations thereof. Usually I start with two traps. If the hive is weak, or the beetles seem to be increasing for some reason, I'll add more. I ended up with 6 traps in one hive until the bees got the situation under control. Generally I run 3 to 4 traps in a hive. 

For me the key is: The bees have to have a place to chase the beetles, and when the beetles get in there thinking they're safe, heh heh heh they drown in oil! If the bees do not have a place to chase the beetles to the demise of the shb, the bees will never win.

Also, keep your hive tool handy every time you open the hive. Usually a good opportunity to smash some. In a pinch, a thumb or finger works too. Very gratifying. 
Regards,
Steven


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## papar (Apr 10, 2007)

Thanks for the advice.

How frequently do traps need to be replaced/cleaned out or what ever?


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Thanks Steven and David, good info on both counts. 

Ed


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## StevenG (Mar 27, 2009)

During the busy season, that is, say, April thru September here in SE Missouri, every time I look into the hive, I check the traps. Sometimes they need to be cleaned out and refilled, other times refilled, other times simply left alone.
Regards,
Steven


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## max2 (Dec 24, 2009)

papar said:


> Thanks for the advice.
> 
> How frequently do traps need to be replaced/cleaned out or what ever?


I change mine about every 3 weeks. During wet weather I find that it is important also to change the DE as it tends to pick-up some moisture in high humidity.
I srape the propolis of the traps ( keep in the freezwe for a few hrs makes it brittle), soak it in Sugar Soap, brush them all and then soak in Bleach - all to make sure I don't carry AFB ( potentailly) or another problem from one hive to another.
Beekeeping was so much easier without SHB!!


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## hoodswoods (May 15, 2009)

I've not the experience, nor longevity (4 years), but have never lost a hive (or even frames) to SHB. I run SBB with bottom oil traps (yes, nasty), monitor my box expansion closely, close off every other possible entrance except my bottom bee entrance, fill those nasty gaps in those crazy top hive feeders and spray/dribble permethreM (organic - NOT ...thrin) around and under the hives late at night after everone is home.

I live in the south and have plenty of those in and about - lucky or doing the right thing.


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