# dark queen ??



## Levi's Bees (Feb 7, 2014)

i'm trying to identify this dark queen . thoughts? i may never know.:scratch:


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## fieldsofnaturalhoney (Feb 29, 2012)

Well,, she's marked, so someone should know her heritage


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

She's a very handsome lady! I have a lovely chestnut-brown, unstriped one. She's a mutt-daughter, from one of my swarm queens. Her Mother and her daughters are all striped.

Enj


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## Levi's Bees (Feb 7, 2014)

yes i marked her


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## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

Well, You probably did not read the story of my Black Onyx queen, But here is a synopsis, One of my Observations was so crowded I had to do a split, The queen was a Cordovan Italian, Her replacement(Daughter) looked very much like yours, Her thorax was Black and shiny (Thus The Black Onyx) She was My lady friends favorite queen. A great producer that I held in my Observation hive for as long as possible. 
When I finally had to remove her I placed her in a nuc and gave her to the friend. She still produces great, and is doing well. Her replacement (daughter) is not black like her, a common 3 banded Italian looking queen. 
Assuming the melanocytic trait is dominant among the insect world as it is in most mammalians then one can assume it will arise within any given colony that is open bred. Subsequent generations of open bred queens will likely increase it's occurrence.


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## GaryG74 (Apr 9, 2014)

She might have some carni genetics. I have several so called Italians that are dark but most are amber colored. Nice looking queen, whatever she is.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Any queen that is dark is a carnis X.
Any queen that is yellow is an Italians X.
You have to see what is your local drone mix to further
confirm her genetics.
I could be wrong but don't know all the exact genetic of
the queen until you have test her.


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## Slow Drone (Apr 19, 2014)

beepro said:


> Any queen that is dark is a carnis X.
> Any queen that is yellow is an Italians X.
> You have to see what is your local drone mix to further
> confirm her genetics.
> ...


Russians and Caucasian X are dark also.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Humm....the Russian queen site show
a yellow Italians color queen when it should
be the darker color bees. How come the certified
Russian queen site has the yellow bee then? I'm so
confused.


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## Slow Drone (Apr 19, 2014)

beepro said:


> Humm....the Russian queen site show
> a yellow Italians color queen when it should
> be the darker color bees. How come the certified
> Russian queen site has the yellow bee then? I'm so
> confused.


Probably used a pic of an italian queen and not a russian. There used to be someone selling yellow russians but they were a cross between russian and italian. Russians, Caucasians, and Carniolans are all dark queens and my understanding is they are closely related.If you cross russians with italians you'll get both dark and yellow queens.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

And don't forget about the AMM.
They are the darker bees too. Not
sure if they are related to the other
dark bees also? The Cordovan is a 
genetic mutation. So not sure if they are
of the Italians specie as well?


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## Slow Drone (Apr 19, 2014)

Cordovans in the US are Italian although all bees carry the same recessive trait. The Cordovan trait in bees other than Italians is very rare probably would spend a lifetime and a lot of cash finding Cordovan Russians or Carniolans.


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## pink bee man (Feb 24, 2015)

Ive got one ,looks like that came from wild swarm last fall ,gona graft queens from it this spring. lots of bees lots of honey lived all winter,had a large cluster. she look healthy!!!! :thumbsup:


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

Late last summer I did a three way split on a hive that had a yellow queen. (had tons of cells) Got one yellow and one that is dark like the one in the op. 
I guess you get what you get from whatever you got.


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## Clayton Huestis (Jan 6, 2013)

Looks like carniolan mutt to me. If you look at the workers you have a pretty good mix of dark and yellow workers so you have probably a 50/50 chance of either color if you raised queens from her.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Levi's Bees said:


> i'm trying to identify this dark queen . thoughts?


Oh yeah, that's Martha. I wondered where she got off to.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

From experience with all the mutts we have here, it is not
a 50/50 chance. With mixed drones you will get all yellow and
then all dark workers. Looks like the queen is rotating the color maybe
FIFO. Sometimes I got the Cordovan and sometimes the Russian or carnis queens.
But cannot tell the difference between the Russian and carnis. Only if I know how!


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