# Is this wax moth or hive beetle? Or....or...AFB?



## KatGold (Jan 18, 2012)

Hi all.

Last week, I tried moving a split from a TBH into a frameless Langstroth. It was a diseaster. The nurse bees left the first night. Just now, I thought I'd clean out the brood from the abandoned Lang. I pulled it out and there was a moth. It looked like a pantry moth, maybe about a half inch long with light colored wings. I smushed it immediately. Last week, when I was doing the split, I saw a single hive beetle (which I also killed). One moth might not have caused me heartburn (or maybe it should), but as soon as the sun hit the brood, tiny larvae started coming out of the brood cells.

I know, I should cleaned the hive immediately after my failed split, and I learned that lesson. But I didn't and now I have an infestation and I don't know what it is. 

To complicate things further, there was a single string in the Lang. It was like a spider silk. Just one. I brushed it away. And yet one more thing, fearing American Foulbrood, I poked at some of the cells with a tiny stick. Three of four were little dead bees that hadn't emerged yet. But some were kind of sticky and gooey. I don't know if they were just too young to form, or if this could actually be AFB. The goo was white, not dark.

To put it all together:


I have evidence of a moth and a SHB and larvae crawling around the abandoned brood.
There was a string of webbing.
There was gooey larva.
Oh, did I mention the larvae. They're kind of gross. Not friendly little things like meal worms.

I took pictures and a video. I could not get them to post here, so I posted them on my blog about chickens http://buzzquack.wordpress.com/buzzhome/bee-problems/

Any advice you can offer would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

The silk thread is a dead giveaway for wax moth larva gooey brood = afb cant say for sure I have no experience with it but everything ive seen or read said stick a toothpick in it and if the bee larva pulls out like a gooey rope that would be an indicator of afb


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## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

Sounds like a moth or two and the larve(maggots) would be SHB...... as for dead brood, wouldn't worry much. sounds like normal decay from being chilled.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

Yeah, can't evaluate larvae that died because they got chilled. Sounds like wax moth to me, but could be both.


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## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

trust me, the little maggots are SHB>>>>>>>>>>>
wax moths will only have a cpl of larve


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## KatGold (Jan 18, 2012)

gmcharlie, are you going by my description here, or did you look at the pictures? Not that it matters, I'm just wondering.

At any rate, you win the cigar!

After writing this, I took out the BT to give it a spray. When I started spraying, several SHBs started running for their lives. I think I drowned them out of the cells or something. Little did they know how quick I am to grab a water bucket with oil and soap. I sprayed the wax and tossed it in the bucket. I ruined the wax, but I don't think I was ever going to use it anyway.

Here's an interesting thing, when I ran to get the bucket, I put the wax on the concrete. By the time I got back (very quickly) there were many tiny things running around on the concrete. I guess they could have been tiny ants, but I think they were little bitty AHBs. They didn't make it to the bucket. They got the thumb.

I hadn't thought about the bee larvae getting chilled. I did wonder if they got ruined with time, but I didn't think about getting chilled. We dipped down into the 30s last week (pretty stunningly weird down south, but it did happen).

The single strand of silk, heck, who knows. Maybe it was just a spider that just happened to find my box today.


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## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

You had pictures??? nope didn't check... just experince... wax moth larve dont run around, they burrow in the comb. if you see a loose one its rare..... 
Gaurdstar, check it out,,,,


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

Shb larva longer than a cell ? I have not seen any small hive beetles yet are just starting to make it to il I hear but didn't imagine the larva to be as big as what is in his video he posted


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## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

Yup... looked at tehm, and Yes, you have them here, your less than 50 miles from me. 2 huge clues. the number of them, as SHB will lay 100,s of eggs each, and moblity.. SHB crawl like crazy.... if you look close you will see they have front legs on those larva.makes them as mobile as an inchworm. Wax moths do not. they move like a snake.


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## KatGold (Jan 18, 2012)

gmcharlie said:


> Wax moths do not. they move like a snake.


A-HA!!! That is about the most useful diagnostic advice I've seen on telling the difference. They definitely moved like an inchworm. That helps me a lot!

I'm convinced they were SHB too, and I will keep that tidbit in my back pocket. Thanks for the tip.


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