# Smoker Fuel



## Ron Young (Aug 16, 2006)

I have a question. When I had bees 20 years ago, I recall being told that the use of news paper, or other types of paper and cardboard that had ink or dye on it was bad for the bees. I do not know how much ink would be in a news paper, unless you were using the color pages for sales information. But I can see that some cardboard packaging is covered in package information and photos, causing lots of ink. Can anyone on here support or dispute this? Is fuel of this nature going to cause a hazard to bees.


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## power napper (Apr 2, 2005)

NCB- just do a search on smoker fuels on this site and find out a lot of info. I have used rolls of cardboard tightly rolled to fit the smoker and also the paper mache type egg cartons and so on for fuel. The newspaper ink today is I believe soy based instead of lead based. (think thats right, someone will let us know if it is not)


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## Ruben (Feb 11, 2006)

I have been using a small sheet of newspaper to start mine and then add ceder wood chips I got a large bundle made for pet bedding from Lowes for $5 and I have not used half of the back all of this year. My smoker has started everytime and has yet to go out before I wanted it to.


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## Mimi's Bees (Jul 16, 2006)

Hey NC Beginner,

When I am shipped something, I save the plain natural brown paper used for packing to start the smoker but find the cotton pucks from bee suppliers work well for me. Since I am also a new beek, I find these give me some confidence the smoker won't go out at the bad time. The price is Ok.

Mimi's Bees

No matter what happens, someone will find a way to take it too seriously.


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## Dwight (May 18, 2005)

I use dead leaves, pine needles, dead twigs or whatever else is lying around on the ground next to the hives and my smoker always goes out at the most inconvienant times. It always stays lit and smokes like a trooper when I am done and ready to head home


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## Ron Young (Aug 16, 2006)

I thought that only my smoker went gang busters when I set it down and went in the house. I think so far that keeping the smoker lit is the hardest thing I have had to do in dealing with bees.


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## Propolis30 (Aug 25, 2005)

I use rolled up cardboard. Light the bottom first before you drop it in.


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## mthopebee (Feb 10, 2006)

I just use old horse manure it stays lit and it`s a cool smoke


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## onelove (Jun 24, 2005)

LoL dwight!

if you have a paper shredder, use the shreddings for fuel - however, not if you shred plastic envelope windows in your shredder.

The key thing I do now is light my smoker before I gear up. Then it has usually caught by the time I'm ready to get going. Also, smoke hive a couple minutes before you start tearing it down - gives bees a chance to get fat/happy before you tear their home apart.


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## kc in wv (Feb 1, 2006)

I have used the following
rain washed burlap and bailer twine, clean cardboard, pine needles, dried staghorn sumac pods, course maple sawdust from my planer, cedar bedding. The burlap and cedar bedding has a lot of cresote. My favorites are the pasteboard dividers in the beer and wine cases and dried sweet gum seed pods. Both will last once lit. I timed a load of the sweet gum pods and they set and smoldered for an hour without me pumping the bellows after it was lit


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Newspapers have almost universally gone to soy based inks that are non toxic and biodegradable.


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## Kelbee (Jan 3, 2006)

I've had my share of frustration keeping the smoker lit. That is, until I started carrying my MAPP gas torch with me. It's got an electronic igniter and with a simple trigger pull I've got a hot flame. A few seconds directed into the smoker will heat it up and instantly ignite any fuel I decide to use with all the smoke I need. I don't even bother to light up any more until I'm ready to smoke a hive. If it stays lit, great. If it goes out, no big deal. Just another few second blast and I'm up and running again. The only downside is having to carry an additional piece of gear out to the hives. Oh, and to be considered a "cheater" instead of learning to master a smoker.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

After much screwing around I do this and
it works well.

Crumpled sheet from old phone book
Cedar shaving in bottom
Wood chips on that(smoker chips)
A couple of kingsford chunks
A handful of wood heater pellets
Light with propane torch

Most important I use the perforated
can insert.

[ October 27, 2006, 08:19 PM: Message edited by: Sundance ]


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## sierrabees (Jul 7, 2006)

I like the idea of cardboard dividers from beer and wine cases. Sounds like it could be fun collecting up a years supply.


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

nc beginner adds:
I think so far that keeping the smoker lit is the hardest thing I have had to do in dealing with bees.

tecumseh replies:
most certainly and the importance of keeping it lit is no small thing.

my favorite fuel is the burlap and slum gum residue left after extracting (boiling) off the wax product. stays lit, cool smoke, and has a slight wax smell.


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

I had occasion to try a new fuel last week, and I like it. I had some huge dry rock maple logs that I was turning into firewood, but the wheels, at 16" long and 30" to 36" or more in diameter, were still too big pick up or to split so I chain sawed them in half lenghtwise. The resulting sawdust is referred to as "hair" because it's produced by cutting with the grain, not across it. It's similar to what comes off a shingle saw or a resaw, but thicker and coarser. Large piles of the stuff quickly accumulated.

Anyways, I collected 3 shopping bags full and tried it in my smoker- it's wonderful fuel! It is clean and dry and lights easily, packs in well, stays lit, and produces a cool mild smoke with very little ash. It's a good enough fuel I think I'll continue to use it. I'll probably experiment with different kinds of wood and see what is best, but this hard maple will be hard to beat.


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## Ron Young (Aug 16, 2006)

Glad to see I am not the only one that just takes the smoker, fills it up and lights it, and just sees how a certain fuel does. 

Thanks for the advice. I am going to google sweet gum pods and see if I can get a photo. I am not sure what they look like.


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## Ron Young (Aug 16, 2006)

Ok, the photo I came up with is that of what I have always called a Sycamore Tree. I could have been wrong in calling it that, but none the less, I have more than I will ever be able to burn. 

Here is the link, so if this is the right thing please let me know. 

http://www.calvorn.com/gallery/photo.php?photo=3903&u=13200,6


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## kc in wv (Feb 1, 2006)

George Fergusson I see you have found maple sawdust too.

NCBeginner The sycamore is similar to the sweet gum. FYI all of my seed pods came from North Carolina. They are not as plentiful here

Here are some links with pictures
http://www.nysite.com/nature/flora/page/swtgum2.jpg
http://www.nysite.com/nature/flora/page/sycam2.jpg

The sycamore has more and smaller projections almost like hair


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## kc in wv (Feb 1, 2006)

NCBeginner

That link is a good picture of the sweet gum
I picked mine up this spring after they were good and dry. From what I was told, last year was a banner year


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## mthopebee (Feb 10, 2006)

..... get one of those small crockpots melt candles you buy from second handstore a bag of candles for 1 or 2 bucks melt them down and drop in saw dust until it really thick and spoon out into a old ice cube tray press it into the cubes with a board until firm and let cool, pop out of tray once cool and light with a match , drop in smoker , once burning good add dryed horse manure ,,, cool smoke that burns slow


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## Mabe (Mar 22, 2005)

Sun dried llama beans smoke for ages and repel deer too!

Mabe


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

I have collected pine needles, that being my favorite, as I can or they are availble. But I always seem to need more. On most days I would just grab whatever leaves or grass was available.

This past year I went to the local tractor supply store and bought a two huge bag of wood shavings. The normal shaving were around $4.50 and the cedar shavings were $5.50 I have been using both bags for a couple months and I still have at least half still to go. And I use alot of smoker fuel. I think one bag may last a hobbiest for couple years. I think its one of the better buys for beekeeping I made.


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## Hillside (Jul 12, 2004)

Mabe,

Is that lima beans or llama beans?


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## buz (Dec 8, 2005)

KC-did I once read a line about sumac pods actually treating bees for mites at the same time you'd be smoking to work them? 
Maybe-There's no way I'll ever keep up with the supply of llama fuels.
Actually, I can count on there being some refuse in the back of the truck from hauling hay bales/firewood/andsuch. Never really have to look far.
Lol


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## Drone On (Mar 19, 2005)

Greetings,
I fashioned a cylinder of fine wire mesh with a bottom of wire and a removable wire top a tad smaller than the inside of my smoker. I fill it with fine sawdust. I put newspaper in the smoker and when lit, hold the cylinder over the top slowly lowering it into the smoker as the paper burns down. Once lit, it never goes out and provides great smoke.


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## AstroZomBEE (Aug 1, 2006)

I use wood pellets made for stoves. They are a little bit of a pain to light, but once they are going they go forever.


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## kenpkr (Apr 6, 2004)

Here's a picture of that smoker insert

Smoker insert 1 

insert 2


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## Tom Chaudoir (Nov 20, 2005)

I use pine cones all alone. The woody kind. (The soft ones don't burn well.) I pick them off the ground and put them in the cone dryer for a few days. (An old car in the sun.)

Grab a big one at it's base and light with a bic. When you can't hold it anymore drop into the smoker. Drop a couple three more on it and puff gently. Pretty soon the smoker is full and blazing and won't go out until the fuel is almost gone. It smells nice too.

Ok, it's not completely perfect. Every now and then the inside rim of the cap and the top of the barrel need a wire brush. Something builds up and makes the lid stick when opening or closing. Not a big deal, but worth mentioning.


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

>Ok, it's not completely perfect. Every now and then the inside rim of the cap and the top of the barrel need a wire brush. Something builds up and makes the lid stick when opening or closing.

Creosote i.e., unburned volatile gasses that have condensed. Rather carcinogenic and not something I want to be blowing into my hives in any great amount which is why I don't use really pitchy fuels. All smoke to some extent contains unburned volatile gasses so I try to minimize my use of smoke and only use enough to do the trick. It usually doesn't take much more than a light puff wafted across the top bars.

Some fuels contain a lot more creosote. Pine needles for example- they make good smoker fuel but the smoke contains a lot of creosote in comparison to say, dry grass or hardwood shavings. I'll use pine needles in a pinch, and I'll ocassionally throw a pine cone into my smoker to aid combustion, but they don't pack tightly enough to suit me and the resulting smoke is too hot.

George-


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## Dick Allen (Sep 4, 2004)

>I use pine cones all alone

Well, not many natural pine trees this far north, but I've used the smaller spruce cones in the past. Due to their much smaller size they fit quite nicely in the smoker. But, like pine cones they also made a lot of creosote build-up in the smoker, so I quit using them.


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## kensfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

"KC-did I once read a line about sumac pods actually treating bees for mites at the same time you'd be smoking to work them?"

This is what gave me the idea of what I've been experimenting on.. the other end of the idea came from Finsky and OA trickling. 

BuckWheat plant - the roots & leaves are high in contents of OA. 

I had previously done 3 powdered sugar treatments 7-10 days apart and know that mite counts for 24 hour drop after the sugar powered treatment ranged from 25-30's. All 3 treatments were done w/out smoke. 

4th sugar powder treatment.. smoked hive w/ dried roots & leaves from BuckWheat plants I had picked weeks earlier. 7am next day.. less then 24 hours.. mite counts were(my mouth drops).. OMG.. hundreds.. more then I could count. 

So I waited a week.. Sunday our wind gust on the east were up in the 50mph range. Okay.. not today.

Monday morning.. checked sticky boards after a week+ of time has passed.. maybe 20-25 mite count on the worst hive. I was pleasantly surprised by the low drop count for the week. 

The temp. was in the 40'sF.. but was suppose to get into the high 60's. I fired up the smoker good.. and gave each hive a good smoking. No sugar treatment or hive manipulation. Later in the day I went to look at activity.. wow.. looked like major flight orientation day. 

I didn't have time to pull the drop boards this morning(work).. I'll check tonight. Maybe not the most scientific approach.. but interesting.


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## BerkeyDavid (Jan 29, 2004)

Ken that is a good idea. I will go out and try to find some of the dead buckwheat plants and dry them out.




> I've had my share of frustration keeping the smoker lit. That is, until I started carrying my MAPP gas torch with me. It's got an electronic igniter and with a simple trigger pull I've got a hot flame.


That is what I do. works great and can light off almost anything!


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## Oldbee (Sep 25, 2006)

This is a somewhat interesting topic in regards to carcinogenic "smoke" and smoke that may be harmfull to mites, safe for are bees. I'll bet no one has made a study of this except about sumac seeds. I use burlap and get a lot of deposit on my smoker. Annoying! Creosote? I didn't know that was carcinogenic! Thanks for the tip! I could collect a lot of silver maple "whirly" seeds in my area. Maybe that would work.


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## Oldbee (Sep 25, 2006)

This is a somewhat interesting topic in regards to carcinogenic "smoke" and smoke that may be harmfull to mites, safe for are bees. I'll bet no one has made a study of this except about sumac seeds. I use burlap and get a lot of deposit on my smoker. Annoying! Creosote? I didn't know that was carcinogenic! Thanks for the tip! I could collect a lot of silver maple "whirly" seeds in my area. Maybe that would work.


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## kensfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

"I will go out and try to find some of the dead buckwheat plants and dry them out."

Thankyou! I planted the field next to the hives in BuckWheat for the fall(just thinking about honey then).. I had read it blooms in 21 days.. the weather was colder.. so mine took 4 weeks. I harvested a 5 gallon bucket full when the ground was damp so the roots came out easily. I washed remaining dirt off.. laid the BuckWheat on a picnic table.. then took an empty propane tank to roll over the BuckWheat to crush the stems to help w/ the drying. 

The BuckWheat field was in full bloom.. but 3 mornings of below freezing temps killed it all.. not many leaves left. There are other plant sources too.. check out "Occurrence in nature" section.. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxalic_acid 

"Oxalic acid and oxalates are abundantly present in many plants, most notably fat hen (lamb's quarters) and sorrel. The root and/or leaves of rhubarb and buckwheat are listed being high in oxalic acid"

Take any/all safety measures(protective clothing) deemed necessary to prevent injury.. don't breath the smoke.. avoid getting in eyes.. know which direction the wind is blowing.. be safe. 

I'm hoping that smoke is a better carrier of the OA and will facilitate a better distribution throughout the hive and bees.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

I personally have stated many times about the effects of smoke in regards to mites.

Its real simple....Smoke your arm. Wait two hours. Smell your arm. What do you smell? Smoke.

Now, imagine the same concept if you could smell the arms of the bees.  I tried its hard. The point is that when you smoke a hive with particular smoke source, you are leaving behind residue. This residue is foriegn in nature to the bees. It also messes with the pheromones and thus the communication of the queen. They want the residue out of the hive, and thus an increase in grooming and hygienic behavior is promoted. 

If your smoking a hive with enough smoke to kill mites off the bees, guess what? Your killing bees also. The incresae in mite drops after smoking is due to grooming and hygienic behavior. Not due to the actual smoke.

Are some smoke fuel better than others? I don't know. I have heard of walnut leaves, tobacco, sumac pods, and many others.

Its really the same concept for many home remedies tried over the years. A oil based product, such as crisco, and some essential oil. The oil spreads the stuff around and the smell is what they want gone.

The secret is to have hygienic bees and those that have outstanding grooming traits.

[ October 31, 2006, 02:41 PM: Message edited by: BjornBee ]


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## kensfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

"The incresae in mite drops after smoking is due to grooming and hygienic behavior. Not due to the actual smoke."

OA trickling works.. since smoking promotes grooming behavior(like powdered sugar).. maybe using a plant that naturally contains OA.. used as smoker fuel.. will provide a "double whamie" for mites. I've read that OA is odorless. 

Thankyou BjornBee.. that gives me good food for thought.


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## Mabe (Mar 22, 2005)

Howdy Hillside,

That's llama! Two gelded males...Toshe and Marley

Mabe


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## shylock3 (Jun 8, 2006)

An oldtimer told me when he has a ruff bunch of bees he uses homemade tobacco, plentiful in this region. If the govt. found out he may have to print a warning lable. He uses corncobs and tobacco if he really wants to get serious.


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## BerkeyDavid (Jan 29, 2004)

anybody ever try drying out rhubarb leaves? I think I will do that too.

Can't wait for that first rhubarb pie next spring!


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

Corncob (Zea mays) smoke (from white corn) killed 71.4% of bees within 18 days and 100% within 5 days in tests by USDA-ARS (Eischen, 2002) 
[www.edpsciences.org/articles/apido/abs/2004/04/M4016/M4016.html - Accessed 7/13/06].

Tobacco (Nicotiana tabacum) - Effects of nicotine include anesthesia and vomiting and can cause colony suffocation, especially during hot weather 
[www.edpsciences.org/articles/apido/abs/2004/04/M4016/M4016.html - Accessed 7/13/06].


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## Ron Young (Aug 16, 2006)

The above links did not work as presented. 

Here is the link corrected. 

Thanks Dave W. I had though about using corncob fuel. 

http://www.edpsciences.org/articles/apido/abs/2004/04/M4016/M4016.html

www.edpsciences.org/articles/apido/abs/2004/04/M4016/M4016.html


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I can vouch for the tobacco smoke anesthesizing them. They collapsed on the bottom board and I thought they were dead. Most came around.

I wouldn't recommend it.


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## Ron Young (Aug 16, 2006)

Are there any other products that are on the DO NOT USE list for smoker fuel? 

Are there any adverse effects of using Burlap as a base, and then putting the main fuel on? How about the Sisel Bailing twine? I know most farmers in this area have switched to the new nylon bailing twine, so this is getting harder to find. 

Other than cost, how are the cotton inserts that are sold in the catalog's? Do fabric coloring dye's have an advers effect on bees. Would an old white T-shirt be ok? 

Thanks for all the responses. Lots of good information.


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## Ron Young (Aug 16, 2006)

AstroZomBee: 

Do you not use anything other than the pellets? I have always just assumed (I know what you get when you assume)that they were just to get things lit and going, then the smoke fuel was added.


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## RonS (Dec 28, 2004)

Here in south Texas, we have an abundance of juniper (referred to as cedar) trees. The bark is dry, fibrous, and comes off in long strips without hurting the tree. So, that is what I use. It lasts long enough for my purposes, but then I am a hobbyist. From reading the many posts, now and in the archives, I think that I'd go with the pellets if I had more than 4 hives to work.


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

SMOKER FUEL - Pine needles, sumac pods, and corrugated cardboard are free, but cedar wood shavings (animal bedding) burns for a long time and burns dependably. [Dr. James Tew, BC, 9/04, p28]. The shavings are easy to start and keep going, give off bountiful clouds of pleasant-smelling smoke, and helps quiet excited bees [BC, 9/04, p41].


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

I agree with Dave W. I use cedar chips / shavings that is used for hamsters, etc. It does leave sticky deposits in the smoker after a while which I clean out with a solvent, but the clouds of great smelling smoke work like a charm. Well..one of the girls did come cruising through this morning and nailed me on the lip. Darn....bad spot....real bad spot. But I do like using cedar.


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

>sticky deposits in the smoker . . . I clean out with a solvent . . .

What does the solvent do to the bees?
Try cleaning smoker using a torch, works great.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Try cleaning smoker using a torch, works great.

Since that's also what I light it with, the torch is always handy to clean out the spout or the insert...


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

I use brake cleaner and then hit it with a torch. Takes about 2 minutes and the smoker looks brand new. I'll try it with just the torch next time but so far, I've had no problems.


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## Parke County Queen (May 22, 2006)

Yes - sumac is supposed to help treat mites. I have used it several times this past year. Smells bad. No wonder the mites leave!


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I use brake cleaner and then hit it with a torch.

Most brake cleaner is chlorinated hydrocarbons. Nasty stuff. I wouldn't want to breath that.


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

It's the green one MB, but I'm going to try the torch method next time the smoker needs touching up!


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## Brent Bean (Jun 30, 2005)

I use cedar chips that you can buy in any farm store a bail will cost you around five bucks and will last a long time it is easy to light, stays lit, burns a long time and makes a great cool white smoke.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Love the cedar!


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

For years John and I would make an annual stop at a small local cemetery to bag the heaps of juniper needles right after the caretaker had raked them up for disposal. Never saw the caretaker, just assumed it was OK. We usually took most of them, stuffing them into a couple dozen contractor size plastic bags, a years supply. A couple years ago the caretaker came by as we were bagging up this treasure. He said he was glad to finally know where the needles had been going all those years. He had never had a clue, it was a longterm mystery to him how the needles just disappeared every year a day or two after he raked them. Mystery solved. Just call us the Juniper gremlins, lol.
Sheri


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## Pincushion (Nov 18, 2006)

Ron,
Sweet gum balls are what we used to call "porcupine eggs". Sweet gum trees have a grey woven-looking bark. The sycamore trees we have in NC grow in wet areas (e.g. near creeks) and have a smooth, splotchy, green-tinted bark.
I've developed a voodoo ritual for my smoker that works for me. I fill it about 1/2 way with pine needles, light them and pump with the top off to get them fully blazing. When they've nearly burned up, the can is good and hot, which I think is the key. I take some rotten wood, gum balls, corn cobs, whatever is in my fuel bucket, and wrap it in newspaper. I put this wad on top of what's left of the pine needles and close the lid.
This burns reliably for a good while. When it falters, I shake the can several times with an up-and-down motion. This always revives the smoke. Since I've been using this technique, I've never had my smoker expire before the fuel was exhausted. I think the vital elements are a hot can and shaking.


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## applebwoi (Jun 20, 2006)

I only have a single hive so I haven't had to worry about keeping something lit for a long time. Since I'm a new beek, I didn't have a smoker when I started so I improvised. I had a charcoal ligher, a tall metal can with holes in the bottom. I put about 4 pieces of charcoal in it and started it. Once it was lit pretty well I just got a big wad of dried grass clippings and stuffed them on top of the charcoal. It produced a massive amount of cool white smoke and did the job quite well. If I needed additional smoke, I just put in another handfull of grass. Only problem has been the inability to easily direct the smoke where I wanted to put it. I just fan it where I need it. Probably will get a smoker for next year, but this method has worked very well for me.


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## JC (Jun 3, 2006)

Here is a trick that I recently learned from my mentor: Light the smoker by heating the outside of the smoker with a propane torch. I use this trick when I have a hive open and my smoker goes out, or whenever I am in a rush. Using a propane torch to start a smoker is fast and efficient.


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## JC (Jun 3, 2006)

I never open the smoker when using the propane torch. I heat the outside of the smoker until the fire restarts.


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