# Queen cells destroyed in walkaway split



## Beekorbust (May 9, 2021)

Two weeks ago I made a walkaway split from my first hive. Last week I checked, and they had made 3-4 queen cells and everything seemed like it was going great. This week I checked again and they had destroyed all of the queen cells. Why would they do this? What's my best course of action now?


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## GFWestTexas (Jul 10, 2021)

Beekorbust said:


> Two weeks ago I made a walkaway split from my first hive. Last week I checked, and they had made 3-4 queen cells and everything seemed like it was going great. This week I checked again and they had destroyed all of the queen cells. Why would they do this? What's my best course of action now?


Leave them alone for a while, when a new virgin queen emerges she will go through the hive taking out her sisters which may or may not have yet emerged. After this the workers will tear down the queen cells. There is a good bet, you have a virgin or freshly mated queen in your split right now. If you disturb the colony to much however the workers may very well ball her, so shut it up and check back in about two weeks.🤠 Still sounds fine to me, leave it!


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## Beekorbust (May 9, 2021)

GFWestTexas said:


> Leave them alone for a while, when a new virgin queen emerges she will go through the hive taking out her sisters which may or may not have yet emerged. After this the workers will tear down the queen cells. There is a good bet, you have a virgin or freshly mated queen in your split right now. If you disturb the colony to much however the workers may very well ball her, so shut it up and check back in about two weeks.🤠 Still sounds fine to me, leave it!


The reason I didn't think I had a queen was because it's been exactly 15 days since the split. Is there a chance a queen could have emerged in that time? Also, I didn't see a queen running around, but I wasn't looking super closely.

Thanks!


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## GFWestTexas (Jul 10, 2021)

So basically you have to take some bee biology into account. 8 (edited) days from laying normally you have a capped queen cell, she will emerge at day 16 almost on the dot. She now has to harden and become sexually mature, make her maiden flight, which most take two. Then you are looking another week or so to start laying. Your safe bet to see something is from start to finish around one month. I say this because there are weather variances etc which could prolong the process. Then she needs time in her new colony to spread pheromones and begin laying. So as you can see from the above 15 days is not adequate time for this. I would shut it up and try not to worry, as I realize it is your first split, but I am thinking from the description you will be pleasantly surprised, if you can stay out for a couple more weeks.😉 And yes there is a very real chance a queen has emerged.


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## Beekorbust (May 9, 2021)

GFWestTexas said:


> So basically you have to take some bee biology into account. 8 (edited) days from laying normally you have a capped queen cell, she will emerge at day 16 almost on the dot. She now has to harden and become sexually mature, make her maiden flight, which most take two. Then you are looking another week or so to start laying. Your safe bet to see something is from start to finish around one month. I say this because there are weather variances etc which could prolong the process. Then she needs time in her new colony to spread pheromones and begin laying. So as you can see from the above 15 days is not adequate time for this. I would shut it up and try not to worry, as I realize it is your first split, but I am thinking from the description you will be pleasantly surprised, if you can stay out for a couple more weeks.😉 And yes there is a very real chance a queen has emerged.


Awesome, thank you so much for the response. I'll stay out for a couple weeks!


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## ifixoldhouses (Feb 27, 2019)

Beekorbust said:


> The reason I didn't think I had a queen was because it's been exactly 15 days since the split. Is there a chance a queen could have emerged in that time? Also, I didn't see a queen running around, but I wasn't looking super closely.
> 
> Thanks!


There has been a queen in there for 3 days then.


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## joebeewhisperer (May 13, 2020)

I've been in several where it looked like a tiny bomb went off in every cell I saw, only to open it a week later and find a girl just laying away.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Somwwhere I have seen it written that the workers will keep a virgin queen from tearing down cells till after she returns from mating. Dont know if that is documented or conjecture but sounds like it would be clever survival behavior. After she returns mated though, any remaining cells would be a potential threat to colony survival.


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## ankklackning (Dec 10, 2020)

ifixoldhouses said:


> There has been a queen in there for 3 days then.


She might look a bit small and hard to see also, I would suspect?


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## ankklackning (Dec 10, 2020)

crofter said:


> Somwwhere I have seen it written that the workers will keep a virgin queen from tearing down cells till after she returns from mating. Dont know if that is documented or conjecture but sounds like it would be clever survival behavior. After she returns mated though, any remaining cells would be a potential threat to colony survival.


That's an interesting idea! It would make sense. If it weren't the case there could be all kinds of failures. But I wish I knew more on that also.


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## GFWestTexas (Jul 10, 2021)

crofter said:


> Somwwhere I have seen it written that the workers will keep a virgin queen from tearing down cells till after she returns from mating. Dont know if that is documented or conjecture but sounds like it would be clever survival behavior. After she returns mated though, any remaining cells would be a potential threat to colony survival.


I wish this were the case, I just pulled a loosing virgin queen out of a finisher hive today, the workers dragged her out on the landing board. I failed to get there before they emerged. This why they sell cell guards for queen rearing. Although I agree it would probably solve a lot of issues. I have decided they operate by the highlander rules there can be only one! I should of caged the cells yesterday thought I had a little longer🤨


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## joebeewhisperer (May 13, 2020)

crofter said:


> workers will keep a virgin queen from tearing down cells till after she returns from mating.


I’ve seen them take an active role in tearing them down after their favorite emerges. I may have seen a few the were 3 days younger that weren’t destroyed. Always fascinating to me to hear a queen piping and her rivals piping and haven’t emerged yet. I always figure if I were a defenseless sister in a cell I’d keep my mouth (or wing muscles) quiet.

That said, they do some weird stuff so I’m not discounting anything. One thing I’ve noticed is a large hive that swarms or loses a queen has a near 100% chance of replacing her with a laying queen in a month, whereas mating nucs don’t do nearly as well. It’s to the point I’m not terribly worried if I accidentally shake a queen out while moving nurses. A big hive (here anecdotally) almost always replaces her.


GFWestTexas said:


> I should of caged the cells yesterday thought I had a little longer🤨


Incubator. I pull them out on day 5-6 and rarely lose over 1 in 30, often losing none.. I’ve played the game of chase the 5 remaining out of 12 around the top of a finisher as they fight and workers destroy remaining cells hours before emerging. The first alerts I set on my phone calendar said “grafted 30 from L7, day 9, move to incubator?”. After I almost lost an entire batch the phone alerts say the same except “move to incubator!” Is at the end.


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## ifixoldhouses (Feb 27, 2019)

ankklackning said:


> She might look a bit small and hard to see also, I would suspect?


If it just emerged it's not too hard to find, soft fuzzy beige looking, otherwise they can be tricky to find.


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## GFWestTexas (Jul 10, 2021)

joebeewhisperer said:


> Always fascinating to me to hear a queen piping and her rivals piping and haven’t emerged yet. I always figure if I were a defenseless sister in a cell I’d keep my mouth (or wing muscles) quiet.


Me to, if I was stuck in a cell, there wouldn’t be so much as a twitch.🤣 I do wonder often however if it could have to do with differing races and genetics, as Russians tend to constantly build cells. I normally pull after they have capped, and to the incubator, but when they only make two, I tend to leave them.


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## joebeewhisperer (May 13, 2020)

GFWestTexas said:


> Me to, if I was stuck in a cell, there wouldn’t be so much as a twitch.🤣 I do wonder often however if it could have to do with differing races and genetics, as Russians tend to constantly build cells. I normally pull after they have capped, and to the incubator, but when they only make two, I tend to leave them.


I hadn’t really factored in the race. It’s true Russians do strange stuff with cells and I’m mostly Russian.


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