# Best clover combinations for long term self maintenance



## LAlldredge (Aug 16, 2018)

I seeded white sweet clover into my lawn and love it. Low maintenance and green. if you have a chance to seed a large area consider phacelia and sunflower. My clover has expanded to the full lawn. Bee kids love it.


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## Tim KS (May 9, 2014)

Several years ago, i sent toff for a 40# bag of sanfoin seed to plant into a small pasture next to my apiary. The first year I planted it, very little came up because I planted it too deep. The next year I just scattered it and left it struggle on it's own and got about half a stand. This year it came back thicker and I don't know if it came back from roots or seed. My bees just love it. The clover mixed in seems to be neglected when the sanfoin blooms.


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## G3farms (Jun 13, 2009)

Contact your local ag extension agent, they can be a great help with this kind of question, especially local, kind of like beekeeping.


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## piperjim (Apr 26, 2014)

I second the Ag Extension Agent suggestion, they work for your local land-grant university and their information is research-based and free (mostly). Also, let us know where you live.....clovers, like all biological organisms, aren't universal in habitat preference. Yellow sweet clover does well in the arid western US, but there are much better choices for the humid eastern US. Most clovers are short and will be overgrown and shaded out within a few years in the setting you describe (only bush-hogged once a year, at best). At the price of clover seed, I hope the hunting preserve is buying!!


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

the tall white clover will reseed itself.
forever not likely, may need every 5 years to add some seed.

IF you can bush hog some strips, like 1/3 cut 2/3 let stand you can get some later bloom of what is already there.

GG


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## Litsinger (Jun 14, 2018)

John:

Another thing to consider would be some of our more vigorous native legumes that would also afford broad general wildlife and pollinator benefit:






Native Legumes - Roundstone Native Seed Company







roundstoneseed.com





While I am quite a bit South of you, around here Partridge Pea, Illinois Bundleflower and Ticktrefoil have no trouble competing with warm-season grass and very reliably self-seed.

Beyond that, Ladino clover has proven to be very reliable in terms of both developing a fairly dense monoculture and in yielding nectar benefit. I do tend to overseed it every year or two however to keep it going.

I've enjoyed your soil health podcast over the years. Glad to see you active here on Beesource.

Russ


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## John Davis (Apr 29, 2014)

The tall white and yellow sweet clovers are biannual so would need overseeding the second year to get a continuous stand growing.


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## JeffreySemons (8 mo ago)

If you’re talking about bees, three clovers come to mind. The new three sisters. Alsike, crimson, sweet clovers. You can go ahead and strike the last two if your soil is acidic since you have the only option of minimal impact. But if you’re blessed enough to be in the Blackland Prairie, go to town with your exact plan. Mow it between 3-8 inches in the fall, lightly disk, drag.


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## Norcal Mtns (Mar 28, 2021)

Tim KS said:


> The next year I just scattered it and left it struggle on it's own and got about half a stand. This year it came back thicker...


Same here. I planted New Zealand White Clover because that was all I could get locally. It was disappointing the first year but everywhere this year. Later I scattered Alsike, but have not seen any yet.


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## Forensic Nurse (PHX AZ) (21 d ago)

John Kempf said:


> I welcome your input.
> 
> Thank You!


New to Bees, but I have acreage up in Northern Arizona and have educated myself quite a bit on what is best for the soil. I would read up on "not tilling" the soil and using a more organic, plant the right stuff, mow it or graze it, let the grazers fertilize it, watch the soil do it's "thing" in a couple of years. What comes to mind is this guy, Joel Salatin, who farms using chickens, cows, pigs, rabbits (and who knows what).Joel Salatin Farming Video I am not saying you want to do all that, but, when you watch some of his video, he tells you how you can do this in a back yard (chickens only), 1 acre, 100 acres, etc. This man is a living encyclopedia and he never tills the soil. The soil is rejuvinated by not over using it. It's amazing to see how the fields are before and after in adjacent fields. Just a thought.


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## mill-j (10 mo ago)

Forensic Nurse said:


> New to Bees, but I have acreage up in Northern Arizona and have educated myself quite a bit on what is best for the soil. I would read up on "not tilling" the soil and using a more organic, plant the right stuff, mow it or graze it, let the grazers fertilize it, watch the soil do it's "thing" in a couple of years. What comes to mind is this guy, Joel Salatin, who farms using chickens, cows, pigs, rabbits (and who knows what).Joel Salatin Farming Video I am not saying you want to do all that, but, when you watch some of his video, he tells you how you can do this in a back yard (chickens only), 1 acre, 100 acres, etc. This man is a living encyclopedia and he never tills the soil. The soil is rejuvinated by not over using it. It's amazing to see how the fields are before and after in adjacent fields. Just a thought.


 Just a couple notes. The OP is into regenerative agriculture and he is a speaker as well. If I remember right, I've seen his name right alongside Joal Salatin's at several conferences.

Since this thread is now over a year old, I'd be interested in what the OP decided and how it's working out so far.


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## John Kempf (Jun 30, 2021)

@mill-j @Forensic Nurse (PHX AZ) 

The world is smaller than one might think at times, particularly on the internet. 😊 Joel is a personal friend and colleague. 

I planted 9 acres into a combination of 9 different clover species, alfalfa, yellow and white sweet clover, balansa, alsike, white, and a couple more I would have to look up to recall. 

Because of challenging weather, it got planted late, mid June, and then turned really dry. Germination looked very poor, however, it seems it may have continued to germinate over an extended period once we got more rains a 6-8 weeks later. By fall, there was a very thick solid stand 8-12 inches tall. 

This next summer will be the first bloom. The intention is to let everything bloom to maturity, drop seed, and brush hog it in the fall for maximum seed scatter if there is anything remaining in the seed heads, and repeat annually. Will see how it goes. 

Jonathon Lundgren reports 10k lb honey yields off 40 acres of various nectar crops in my podcast interview with him if I recall correctly. Will be interesting to see how this develops. 

Summer is a hit or miss honey crop here, and if I can improve the consistency and yield, it will be worthwhile.


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## msl (Sep 6, 2016)

Thanks for the follow up!!!




John Davis said:


> The tall white and yellow sweet clovers are biannual so would need overseeding the second year to get a continuous stand growing.


there is also HUBAM witch is an annual cultivar of white sweet clover


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## Tim KS (May 9, 2014)

John,
I thought I'd give you an update on the sanfoin. I do like it a lot, so I bought another 40# this summer for another plot close to my apiary. 

I disc the plot shallow & drug a harrow several time to level it off. In mid Sept. I broadcast the seed and harrowed one more time. (now would be the time for some rain....but no, it didn't rain until early Nov.) An inch of rain great and the weather was still mild and the sanfoin came up with a beautiful stand. In a week or so about 5-10% had the third leaf and we were hit with temps in the teens for several nights.

Sanfoin needs that third leaf stage to resist winter kill, I'm told. So now I'm waiting for spring to see if any survived.

BTW, I've also found out that sanfoin will stand the use of glyphosate (Round-Up) which can help control some grasses and undesirable weeds.


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