# Nadiring a Langstroth can it be done?



## Muellerbee (Feb 5, 2017)

Hello all,

I am new to the forum and am getting back into beekeeping after taking a 4 year hiatus. I am going to use a foundationless 10 frame Lang design simply because it is what I have and what my nucs are coming in, but would like to try the approach of nadiring. My main concerns are that nadiring will impede honey flow making it difficult for the nucs to establish, and that using the larger sized Lang boxes combined with giving extra boxes underneath as one traditionally does with a Warre may stress the bees. 

Any comments, suggestions or person experience with dynamic Langstroth techniques are appreciated.

Thanks


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## Stephenpbird (May 22, 2011)

The bees don't care much. But the beekeeper will.

It all comes down to your back, how much can you lift without doing any harm to yourself. A full lang is much much heavier than a warre. Of course this is a problem with the warres as well , and that's why warre beekeeper often build lifts for warres. The idea is to lift the whole hive in one go to nadir. Without having to split the hive up by moving individual boxes to nadir, which will disturb the bees.

At the end of the day supering or nadiring or both together works for the bees.

Welcome to the forum


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## Muellerbee (Feb 5, 2017)

Thanks Stephen, I am not trying to break my back :lpf: . So I could in theory add two or three hive bodies beneath the newly introduced nucleus colony installed on top? Giving them ample room to expand downwards.

-Marcel


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## Stephenpbird (May 22, 2011)

In theory yes. I would not do it. That much empty space when a nuc is trying to keep everything warm for brooding can't be good.


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## Muellerbee (Feb 5, 2017)

Good point, nobody likes chilled brood.

Thanks


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

I caution you against believing everything you read on the internet and on Beesource. After being a beekeeper for decades using tried and true methods, I wasted a lot of time trying things I read about here on Beesource, like small cell, Housel positioning, Warre hives, bees working downward, no queen excluders, foundationless, natural cell size, screened bottom boards, 7/11 foundation, to name a few. Modern framed hives, foundation and extractors were invented in the 1850's. That is 160 years ago. It is hard to invent something new that has not already been tried in 160 years. But since 2006 beekeeping has become a fad, millions of new and old beekeepers are trying to make a buck from from newcomers like you. They have websites, they have books, they sell equipment etc. All to make a buck for themselves and boost their ego at your expense. I recommend you stick with standard hives and methods until you are successful with that and then waste your time on foundationless and nadiring.


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## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

Od Frank is absolute spot on. Guru's need a sales pitch, so they make up some gnostic technique to flim-flam the newbees with.

It's all about marketing their book, dvd, or lecture appearance fee. Has nothing to do with actual beekeeping. Most have a couple of "Potemkin" hives so they are not revealed as complete frauds.


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## Muellerbee (Feb 5, 2017)

Thanks odfrank that is great advice. I am careful to differentiate fact from personal opinion in the forum setting.


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## herbhome (Oct 18, 2015)

I have both Warre and Langstroth Hives. I haven't found any advantage to nadiring with either and I have had a couple of colonies that flat refused to build down. Clearly they hadn't read the book. 
Having said that, C.C. Miller in "50 years among the bees", practiced nadiring the brood chamber. He explained it conserves brood nest heat that way.


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## Muellerbee (Feb 5, 2017)

Thanks Neill, I was intrigued by the method mainly because it allows for old comb rotation and can contribute to IPM. I suppose the bees would appreciate the conservation of heat and less brood chamber disruption but bees will always be bees and do simply as they wish.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

>it allows for old comb rotation

Old comb rotation was another technique I tried, based on European practices, but have slowed down on when my piles of combs to be melted constantly got filled with swarms in preference to other fresher combs in the yard. If swarms prefer the oldest combs to nest in, How Bad Can They Be?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpEH61fSbWI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvR0ybmcs1A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0r0TSFBVeOc


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