# natural cell



## Kyle Meadows (Jul 14, 2006)

Hello all,
I'm a new beekeeper with one year of experience, 
and after losing 2 of 3 hives to Varroa I'm ready to try natural cell. I'm planning to try 5 foundationless hives this spring, (using all medium boxes) and I have a few questions. 

Could the wedges from wedge top frames be rotated 90 degrees and installed as wooden starter strips? They would extend about 1/4 " below the frame top.
Is that far enough? They are not very thin, (about 3/16") 
but could be made thinner on the lower edge if needed. I can make taller thinner starter strips easily enough, but it's just that I've got all these wedges lying around 
and they're just the right length. 

How much better is it to install packaged bees into nucs (which I don't have) as opposed to ten frame medium hive bodies (which I do have)? If I do use nucs, should they be 5 frame, and are those sold in mediums?

How necessary is it to paint hive bodies? Will they last as long unpainted?

I am pondering two locations for the new hives. Both are equally protected from the prevailing NW wind, and both get early morning sun, but one site gets shady 
about 2-3 pm and the other gets full sun almost all day. 
The shade is nice for me in the summer, but would the bees be better off in full sun, especially in winter? 

Thanks for any help and suggestions and please let me know what I have forgotten to ask!


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

Kyle Meadows said:


> Hello all,
> 
> 
> Could the wedges from wedge top frames be rotated 90 degrees and installed as wooden starter strips? They would extend about 1/4 " below the frame top.
> ...


I have done just that, turned the wedges vertical and stapled them onto the top bar. One thing you will want to do is to put a bead of wax along the bottom side of the wedge. That will encourage them to start right there.

If you are using medium boxes they work just as well as deep nuc boxes. And yes they make and sell medium nucs too, I have a bunch of both.

Depending on your location, but generally full sun is best especially if you have SHB. I prefer afternoon shade, but that is more for my comfort. I don't have much shade in the winter from my trees.


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## NW IN Beekeeper (Jun 29, 2005)

*Natural Cell Opinions*

I have done a lot of reading on the topic of Natural and Small Cell. 
While M Bush and D Lusby have great information, I enjoyed the concepts presented by a fellow beesource member Dennis Murral: 

http://bwrangler.litarium.com/implications/

The point he makes in these pages is cell size depends on hive needs. 
That can be observed as he has noted on the above pages.

-Jeff


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Could the wedges from wedge top frames be rotated 90 degrees and installed as wooden starter strips? They would extend about 1/4 " below the frame top.

I haven't, but Bullseye has. 

>How much better is it to install packaged bees into nucs (which I don't have) as opposed to ten frame medium hive bodies (which I do have)?

In a cold climate they will build up faster in the nuc. They will do fine in the regular box.

> If I do use nucs, should they be 5 frame, and are those sold in mediums?

Yes. Yes. Brushy Mt. has them in mediums.

>How necessary is it to paint hive bodies?

Not at all necessary.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslazy.htm#stoppainting

>Will they last as long unpainted?

No. How much shorter will depend on your climate. In a dry climate there won't be much difference. In a wet one there may be a lot.

>I am pondering two locations for the new hives. Both are equally protected from the prevailing NW wind, and both get early morning sun, but one site gets shady
about 2-3 pm and the other gets full sun almost all day.

Both will work fine. You'll get more honey from a hive in the sun all day.

>The shade is nice for me in the summer, but would the bees be better off in full sun, especially in winter?

Especially when they are making honey.


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## Devbee (Feb 23, 2007)

About painting, I live in a fairly humid climate here in Austin, Texas (not nearly as bad as Houston, but can still be quite humid), but I didn't want to paint my boxes with regular paint, so I bought a light outdoor wood stain that really brings out the features of the pine wood that was used to make them.

It was faster and less messy than painting, too, so you might try that.


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## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

as far a sunny vs shade, Michael made a good point
another is that if you don't have small hive beetle yet, you probably will soon 
most folks think lots of sun helps with them

Dave


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

>I didn't want to paint my boxes with regular paint, so I bought a light outdoor wood stain 

I tried stain and most of the boxes cupped and all the lids cupped.

I'll never do that again!


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## spunky (Nov 14, 2006)

*new beek*

Kyle:


Several of us new beeks are getting started on natural cell. Heres what I am doing 

1) Giving a starter strip of 1/2 frame of medium brood foundation .

2) Going with mediums( except 2 deeps for nucs ) 

3) 1/2 my hive bodies stained that included a water sealer. 1/2 with white paint

4) I have no choice but to expose my hives to full afternoon sun, but I am in Indiana so shouldnt be a big deal

5) getting a nuc from fatbeeman, and some italians from kelleys which I will requeen in June with NWC from Tim A.

Dats my plan 

all us newbies can compare notes on this forum and learn


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## Kyle Meadows (Jul 14, 2006)

Wow! I don't know where to start. Thanks for all the replies. Sorry it took awhile to respond.
I think I'll start with the 5 frame medium nucs with top feeders and top entrances, then switch them to 10 frame mediums once they get going. I'll try the wedges as starter strips, too.
I'll go for the sunny location and sweat a bit more this summer. (I hear that's healthy). 
I think they'll end up being painted, too, since we have some paint leftover and my wife enjoys painting things. (I have to be careful not to stay in one place for too long.)

I opened the sole surviving hive yesterday, the first nice day in a long time and saw the queen is still there and the bees were happily and busily bringing in white and yellow pollen. (Cedar and elm are supposed to producing lots of pollen according to the air quality index in our local paper.) No eggs or brood yet, but still what I guess is a lot of honey, probably 3-4 full frames.


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## hummingberd (Aug 26, 2006)

some one want to explain to me why you would use a 5 frame nuc instead of a deep or medium hive body?

Thanks!


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## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

>some one want to explain to me why you would use a 5 frame nuc instead of a deep or medium hive body?

to more evenly match the number of bees to the size of the box
when starting a new hive most folks agree (strange for beekeepers) that this helps them get going
not a requirement, but a good idea if you have the equipment

Dave


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>most folks agree

Some defnitely don't. But I notice they don't live in cold climates either...


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