# Candling a Queen Cell



## Josh Peal (Apr 26, 2017)

I thought this would make a really cool video to inspire those of you just getting into queen rearing. 
I shot this in my lab and unfortunately I didn't think ahead to turn off the powerful HEPA filter that I run while not doing inseminations etc. However, if you have a set of headphones or listen carefully, you can actually hear a popping and crackling sound. That's the queen working her way out. The incubator actually gets rather noisy when the queens are on their way out. 

This is a VSH Italian being held back for artificial insemination. Thus, she's being emerged in an incubator before going into a nuc for aging.

Notice the excess royal jelly; this is what you're after. Not an obscene amount of leftover but more than enough that you know she has yet to be hungry for a moment of her life. 
These cells were the second batch in a single 10 frame deep. This frame pulled about 60 cells of which most were even slightly larger. These cells are a little thinner than usual but I attribute that to them being drawn in rather hot temperatures.


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## canadiyank (Apr 7, 2018)

Super cool, thanks for sharing!


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## VickyLynn (Jun 20, 2011)

Yes, thanks for sharing that. I've successively candled countless poultry eggs developing with chicks, but when I candle queen bee cells, I can't see through the cell. Maybe I need a more powerful light.


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## Josh Peal (Apr 26, 2017)

VickyLynn said:


> Yes, thanks for sharing that. I've successively candled countless poultry eggs developing with chicks, but when I candle queen bee cells, I can't see through the cell. Maybe I need a more powerful light.


This setup was just for sharing but I typically use a super cheap LED flashlight. I cup my hand around it so there's only a thin beam escaping between my thumb and forefinger. I can then just slide my hand down the bar checking the status of each cell.

There's really not much to see until their about 24 hours from emerging.


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## Cuttingedgelandinc (Mar 3, 2015)

Josh, thanks for sharing. That is a cool video.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Josh, prior to the 24 hr mark, do they just lay there head down in the cell? Mine are 36 to 48 hours from emergence and I see no movement at all. But they do appear fully developed. Mostly I see abdomens and legs. This is my first time getting the grafted cells to this stage and it is all new to me. I did decide to wait to make the mating nucs to see what, if anything, emerges first. Second round was moved to finishing hive this morning. First round cells are all real small and I wonder if pupae can starve to death while capped.


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## Josh Peal (Apr 26, 2017)

JWPalmer said:


> Josh, prior to the 24 hr mark, do they just lay there head down in the cell? Mine are 36 to 48 hours from emergence and I see no movement at all. But they do appear fully developed. Mostly I see abdomens and legs. This is my first time getting the grafted cells to this stage and it is all new to me. I did decide to wait to make the mating nucs to see what, if anything, emerges first. Second round was moved to finishing hive this morning. First round cells are all real small and I wonder if pupae can starve to death while capped.


Around T-24 hours from emergence is when they start to darken/harden and move more noticeably. Prior to that they are practically invisible, being white inside of a brown substrate, and they don't move nearly as often. As emergence nears they start to move more and more and become darker and darker.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Thanks, E-day is supposed to be the 22nd. Today was move to nuc day but I put them in my incubator instead because I am not really sure any are viable. That was the reason for candling. Using JZs BZs cups which are translucent brown and I could clearly see the lower half of each queen in the top of the cup. Some of them look a little scunched in there. The lack of movement, especially after watching your video, had me concerned.


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## Josh Peal (Apr 26, 2017)

If they're that near to emergence, tip the cell or frame upside down and give it a little wiggle. Use a light and you should be able to see the queen's white abdomen against the royal jelly. If they're 48hours out and brown then there's a problem and they're likely dead. If they're white then you should be OK to place them in a nuc.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Curiosity got the better of me and they all looked brown in the cell. I uncapped one and this is how she looks (looked)? There was no royal jelly remaining in the cell. Is this 2 days out?


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## Josh Peal (Apr 26, 2017)

JWPalmer said:


> Curiosity got the better of me and they all looked brown in the cell. I uncapped one and this is how she looks (looked)? There was no royal jelly remaining in the cell. Is this 2 days out?
> 
> View attachment 41403


I meant far more brown than that. She looks fine. Looks like she's about 36 hours out.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Lol! I was very suprised to see the white abdomen and thorax when I pulled her out. Oops. 11 grafts in the incubator now, along with five cells I cut out of a split that had a few to spare. Good to have an accurate estimate on the timeline.


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## Josh Peal (Apr 26, 2017)

JWPalmer said:


> Lol! I was very suprised to see the white abdomen and thorax when I pulled her out. Oops. 11 grafts in the incubator now, along with five cells I cut out of a split that had a few to spare. Good to have an accurate estimate on the timeline.


Sacrificing a few is well worth the learning experience!


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Agreed. Thank you for the help. I'll post an update on Friday.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Update 6/22/18, 20:00.

Here's is where I started.

12 qc's transferred to incubator on 6/ 17. 5 additional cells cut off of a frame in a walk away split. All cells were smaller than I am accustomed to.

Cut open one queen cell on 6/20 to see if pupae were even still alive. Cut open queen appeared viable.

Today, I currently have five queens in roller cages eating honey I smeared on the sides of the cages. There is one queen that emerged and died and another that appears to have died during emergence. The other cells are questionable and probably not alive, but I will give them at least another 24 hrs. Overall I am exited but also disapointed that more have not emerged. The second set of grafts will go to the incubator next Wed.


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## Josh Peal (Apr 26, 2017)

JWPalmer said:


> Update 6/22/18, 20:00.
> 
> Here's is where I started.
> 
> ...


Virgins don't last very long without caring for them. Your incubator may also be running a bit hot which will lead to them perishing more quickly.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

I need an education. Only three of my new virgins lived long enough to install. As soon as they emerged, I placed a few drops of honey on the outside of the roller cage and gave them a little water, just like when you first get a queen in the mail. Didn't seem to help, even though I saw them feeding on the honey. Every grafted cell did end up emerging,as well as three of the five cells I cut off a frame. Very few made it 36 hrs. What and how did I screw up keeping them alive?


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## Josh Peal (Apr 26, 2017)

JWPalmer said:


> I need an education. Only three of my new virgins lived long enough to install. As soon as they emerged, I placed a few drops of honey on the outside of the roller cage and gave them a little water, just like when you first get a queen in the mail. Didn't seem to help, even though I saw them feeding on the honey. Every grafted cell did end up emerging,as well as three of the five cells I cut off a frame. Very few made it 36 hrs. What and how did I screw up keeping them alive?


Virgins won't last 36 hours in an incubator without a lot of attention. They need to be given attendants or banked. Virgin pheromones change incredibly rapidly. A freshly emerged virgin smells very different from a 36 hour virgin and this affects acceptance. Why are you installing virgins rather than cells?


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Timing was off for work week. Should have put the cells in mating nucs instead of incubator but really wasn't sure any would emerge. Now I have that fear removed I am going to try to get cells in next time. Checked the 10 cells in finisher hive. They are much nicer looking. Did find one more virgin alive in incubator. She is freely walking about on a pice of comb with some honey and a water source. Reduced temps to 92°. Poured down rain this evening or I would have put her in a nuc in an introduction cage with candy and some attendants. Tomorrow if she is still alive.


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## Josh Peal (Apr 26, 2017)

JWPalmer said:


> Timing was off for work week. Should have put the cells in mating nucs instead of incubator but really wasn't sure any would emerge. Now I have that fear removed I am going to try to get cells in next time. Checked the 10 cells in finisher hive. They are much nicer looking. Did find one more virgin alive in incubator. She is freely walking about on a pice of comb with some honey and a water source. Reduced temps to 92°. Poured down rain this evening or I would have put her in a nuc in an introduction cage with candy and some attendants. Tomorrow if she is still alive.


What are you running your incubator at?? I have a lab grade incubator with .00 accuracy and I keep it at 92.5. I've had other incubators that sat at 95 when set for 92. Others were at 89 when set for 92. You need a really good thermometer.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

The temerature controller is a Ranco ETC 111000-000. It has 1°F resolution. Seems to work pretty well but my heat source is over sized at 600 watts. I need something in the 50 watt range for slower heating and longer cycle times. I set the controller at 93° and it seems to hold between 93 and 95 if one belives the cheapy thermometer I also have in there. The controller reads 93 to 94. Humidity is on target at 78% RH. I really want get this right and start raising my own healthy queens.


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## Josh Peal (Apr 26, 2017)

JWPalmer said:


> The temerature controller is a Ranco ETC 111000-000. It has 1°F resolution. Seems to work pretty well but my heat source is over sized at 600 watts. I need something in the 50 watt range for slower heating and longer cycle times. I set the controller at 93° and it seems to hold between 93 and 95 if one belives the cheapy thermometer I also have in there. The controller reads 93 to 94. Humidity is on target at 78% RH. I really want get this right and start raising my own healthy queens.


95 is way too high. 89-92 would be better if that's the best range you can get.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

I can knock it down a notch. The thermometer is one of those indoor/outdoor models that also provides humidity. Even though the whole unit is inside the incubator, I get different readings. Right now the indoor reading is 92.6 and the controller is 93. I adjusted it down 1° after your post about the temps maybe being too high post emergence.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Josh is giving some good advice here folks, in my opinion every post. I incubate at 92 to 93 but lowers it to between 89 and 90 the night before hatch day. It gives you a little more working time without affecting the quality of the Virgin.


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## KevinWI (Mar 18, 2018)

I'm sorry, but that video was just too cool.....

I watched a video where the author was narrating that the queen can die being pointed the wrong direction, but it doesn't appear that's the case...looks like they can flip to point down.


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