# Your opinion sought on Russian Queens?



## fatscher (Apr 18, 2008)

I'm looking to requeen a queenless colony. They've been without a queen for 10-days to a couple weeks.

I'm told there used to be a lot of hype about Russians, but many beekeepers I've spoken with did not feel positive about them. I've read much about the attributes of Caucasians, and their quick brood build up. Beekeepers have told me how aggressive their colonies became, too.

Seeking your candid feedback on your experiences with Russian queens.

Thanks!


----------



## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

I've liked the Russians that I've had, but I'm not sure what you're looking for in Russian bees. Mite resistance? Overwintering? Ability to shut down brood rearing during a dearth? I'm not sure that you'll necessarily find what you expect.

Best guess (I haven't had a chance to confirm it yet) is that Russians are Caucasians. The so-called "Russian" bees were taken from eastern Europe to the Primorsky region of Russia more than 100 years ago. The bees around the likely source of the bees taken to Primorsky were and are Caucasian. So, "Russians" are likely Caucasians, just like "NWC" are Carniolan.

The Russians I've had tend to be a bit more defensive than Italians or Carniolans, but that could just be my impression. Introducing a Russian queen into a hive that is mostly Italian takes some extra effort; direct release is unlikely to work, in my experience.


----------



## fatscher (Apr 18, 2008)

I seek a Russian mostly because of what I've heard about their rapid brood build up. I split a hive in March in Virginia, which in hindsight was probably a mistake. The queen has been superseded once already and the colony may have swarmed.

I'm starting only my second season of beekeeping but I've learned a lot of experience in how to introduce queens. I know NEVER to put a nail hole thrugh the SOFT candy plug, ever again. Releases the queen too quick. In fact, if you can stand the delay, I'd recommend to newbees to introduce the queen cage in the hive without removing the cork for a solid week, then remove the cork yourself a week later and let the bees spend another 3-4 days releasing her. The queen will be fine in the cage that long as long as attendants don't die and block her exit.


----------



## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

Russians have not seemed to build up any faster than, if as fast as, the Carniolans I've had. They have seemed to shut down in a hurry if they experience any sort of dearth. But, having said that, I think the experience of trying Russians would be worthwhile for you.


----------



## Yuleluder (Mar 2, 2005)

Give them all a try if you have the means. I have all types, and it seems to me that any type can be good or bad. I like to look at each hive as an individual, and not as a certain type of bees.


----------



## Aspera (Aug 1, 2005)

Russians are not for everyone, and probably not for beeks who require very rapid build up in early spring (such as commercial pollinators, package bee producers). They seem conservative about breaking the cluster and expanding the brood nest in late winter. The corellary of this is that they do not risk spring starvation, and overwinter better that other bees I have tried. I agree with the above statements about them having Caucasian traits. One exception is that I've read that caucasians maintain large colonies and are virtually free of swarming traits. This is not always true of Russian bees.


----------



## BerkeyDavid (Jan 29, 2004)

Aspera & Yule are right imho, it depends on where you live and each hive is unique. I need strong hives for the strawberry pollination. This year I got the call on May 2nd, last year wasn't so bad, on May 15. But the Russian hive was just starting to get rolling while the Carni's and mutts were much further ahead. THen again somebody else's Russians' some where else might to better. The Russians sure do overwinter in a small cluster and they do survive, so sometimes that is 90% of the battle! If they don't make it they can't do much!


----------



## NeilV (Nov 18, 2006)

*Thoughts from a newbee with Russians*

I started out last year with 2 Russian hives, and know some people around here who have them. I am currently introducing 4 Russian queens into nucs that I am making. Of those nucs, 2 contain Russian bees and 2 have Italian/Mutts. I am interested to learn whether I will have trouble with queen acceptance in the non-Russian nucs. (I'm taking it slow releasing the queens and holding my breath). 

My thoughts are this:

1. My bees in my two hives from last year were very gentle. One of those hives did poorly and got combined. I think that was due to the specific queen and a disease issue, not the breed. The Russian hive that I split to make the 2 nucs was pretty gentle. I know somebody who has open mated Russians, and she says her hives are maybe a little hotter than the average Italian hive but not terribly hot either. My understanding is that the Russian lines coming out now are gentler than the earlier ones.

2. If by "quick spring buildup" you mean that you want to have a heavy hive early in the year, then you may be happier with Italians. Russians do build up fast. However, they overwinter in a little cluster, and they don't start brood rearing until later. In my experience, they want there to be a supply of natural pollen and nectar before they will begin brood rearing. In my area, I think they will, on average, catch up with the Italians by the end of April. However, the Italian hives I've seen in February and March are ahead of the Russians. If you need early pollination or have an early nectar flow, Italians may make more sense. 

3. The advantages of Russians, based on my experience and reading and talking to others are: (a) due to the small winter cluster, they don't need big stores to get through the winter and overwinter very well; (b) while not varroa mite proof, they can handle varroa mites better; (c) very resistant to tracheal mites; (d) when something is wrong in the hive, they shut down brood rearing and clean up the problem on their own and are generally hygenic.

4. The biggest gripe I hear about Russians is that they are prone to swarm. They tend to build swarm cells which they then tear down and don't use. Also, as mentioned above, queen acceptance can be difficult. I can say with complete certainty that the Italian/Mutt hives did not like the Russian Queens when I first put them in there last Sunday. I will look tomorrow to see if they have warmed up to her before I unplug the queen cage. 

5. If you have a decent queen and can keep them from swarming, they make good amounts of honey, comparable to Italians.


----------



## pcelar (Oct 5, 2007)

BerkeyDavid said:


> The Russians sure do overwinter in a small cluster and they do survive


Russians are the best for northern US and Canada (wet and cold) climate. Carniolans are good too.


----------



## SL Tx (Sep 17, 2006)

The Louisiana Beekeepers Assn. sponsors a field day at the USDA Breeding Lab in Baton Rounge each October. I recommend it highly. While attending I've seen a couple of fascinating presentations by Dr. Tom Rinderer on their work with Russian bees. During the late 1990's/early 2000's, they imported some 350 or 400 queens to their isolated quarantine facility on Grand Terre Island in the south Louisiana marshland (it was subsequently destroyed by hurricane Katrina). They began breeding and evaluating these bees that had evolved as hosts to varroa mites (many generations of mother nature's "survivors"). As I recall, selection from 300 queen lines resulted in maybe 18-20 Russian strains that were scientifically selected for varroa and tracheal mite resistance and honey production. Each strain was identified as a color. Their selected Russians did far better than Italians in rigorous trials. I understand that packages, breeder queens and production queens from the USDA Russian strains are available through members of the Russian Honey Bee Breeders Assn. and others. 

One more thing...Louisiana ain't necessarily wet and cold..but definitely wet...maybe cold once and a while.


----------



## riverrat (Jun 3, 2006)

Have you concidered minn hygen. I like them over the russians I had


----------



## Gudkov (May 15, 2008)

Kieck said:


> Best guess (I haven't had a chance to confirm it yet) is that Russians are Caucasians. The so-called "Russian" bees were taken from eastern Europe to the Primorsky region of Russia more than 100 years ago. The bees around the likely source of the bees taken to Primorsky were and are Caucasian. So, "Russians" are likely Caucasians, just like "NWC" are Carniolan.


The Dear beekeepers! I want to express its standpoint for russian bees. Russia- big country and has several races of the bees - srednerusskie (Apis mellifera v.mellifera), caucasian (A. m. caucasica), carpathian (A. m. carpatica), and other. They differ their own biological particularity. And require the different methods of the care. On my apiary - cross-breed bees.The Bees in our region have begun to bring more than 150 years ago. This was an ukrainian steepe bees (A. m. acervorum), srednerusskie and caucasian. On today we have special type of the bees, combining signs of these races. The Collection of the honey in 2007 on my apiary - 70 kgs (for one hive). Also I collect pollen - 2 kgs on hive by springtime. This year grow queens for sale for mongolian beekeeper.
Information on russian beekeeping you will find on cool russian forum http://www.pchelovod.info.
Excuse me for my bad school english.
Yours respectfully Eugene.


----------



## beehoppers (Jun 16, 2005)

I've had Russians for 2 years but I've only been keeping for 3. I am committed to learning how to do well with them. I am chckerboarding to deal with swarming and that is working. Sometimes they draw crazy comb so they are on plastic foundation. They build to boombing populations and need a lot of ventilation. They supersede, go eggless and freak me out.
They make a lot of honey....


----------



## Barry Digman (May 21, 2003)

Gudkov said:


> Information on russian beekeeping you will find on cool russian forum http://www.pchelovod.info.
> Excuse me for my bad school english.
> Yours respectfully Eugene.



No apology needed for your English. Our Russian is not so good either.


----------



## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

Click on this link and then click on "research".
After that, you can follow this research by just clicking to the next year at the bottom of each page.
This is work by some excellent beekeepers and researchers with russian bees:

http://www.honeystonecandles.com/


----------



## Gudkov (May 15, 2008)

Barry Digman said:


> No apology needed for your English. Our Russian is not so good either.


Thank you for support, Barry!


----------



## BerkeyDavid (Jan 29, 2004)

*Good information*

Thank you Gudkov we appreciate your comments and participation! 

Best regards to all our Russian Beekeeper friends!


----------



## Gudkov (May 15, 2008)

Thank you BerkeyDavid!
This forum visit with pleasure. 
Regard from russian colleagues!


----------



## Aspera (Aug 1, 2005)

Welcome, and thank you for your very nice bees from Primorsky. They have helped me to become a better beekeeper and have many fine traits, especially varroa resistance.


----------



## Morris (Oct 12, 2004)

*Russian Bees*

Although I have kept bees for many years, this will be my first with Russians. Other than more challenging introductions, and keeping lots of supers on the hives, can anyone advise me as to any additional management I should be aware of?

Also, are queen cells produced by Russian bees easier to introduce to Italian nucs than mated Russians?

Eugene, WELCOME to the group!

Morris


----------



## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

There is a great artical in the past ABJ on management of Russian colonies. It mentioned that you should not worry about the small clusters in the winter, watch out for an explosion in population come spring, beware of the brood shot down on a dearth, and live with the queen cups they make. If you want the month that the artical was printed, let me know.


----------



## beehoppers (Jun 16, 2005)

Morris said:


> Although I have kept bees for many years, this will be my first with Russians. Other than more challenging introductions, and keeping lots of supers on the hives, can anyone advise me as to any additional management I should be aware of?
> 
> Not really. I find them hard to get going through an excluder. I have lost them to starvation when they sit over brood and can't move. It seems that they don't care to rob weak hives nearby.
> I must stress that checkerboarding true to Walt's way really works with our Russians. 3 hives we checkerboarded this spring are now 7 medium boxes high, 1 is 8. We are taking advantage of a good year.


----------



## cmq (Aug 12, 2003)

I wouldn't be so bold as to give credit to the Russians for this years production. The spring flow in WNC so far has been outstanding. All races are doing very well.


----------



## Morris (Oct 12, 2004)

*Russian bees*

Issac, Thanks for the response. Could you give me the month and page number for the article in ABJ?

Beehoppers, Thanks. Do you know if queen cells produced by Russians are more easily introduced to non-Russian nucs than mated Russian queens?

Morris


----------



## beehoppers (Jun 16, 2005)

Not giving the russians the credit. I'm giving checkerboarding credit for the bees not swarming and that has helped to take advantage of this year's flow.


----------



## Dundrave (Jun 1, 2008)

*Checkerboarding?*

What is checkerboarding? I am curious. I am new, and haven't heard of it before.


----------



## Aspera (Aug 1, 2005)

I never tried just introducing the cells, but I imagine that the answer is, "Yes, cell do work better". Just beware that it is common for healthy, queenright Russian colonies to go through occasional periods of broodlessness.


----------



## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*Here is a web search on Russian bees & the SHB*

http://www.ars.usda.gov/SP2UserFiles/Place/64133000/PDFFiles/429-DeGuzman.pdf

Regards,
Ernie Lucas Apiaries


----------



## beehoppers (Jun 16, 2005)

Dundrave, do a search on checkerboarding and you'll have plenty to read. Walt Wright came up with it as a way to reduce swarming. You manipulate boxes and frames in the winter. His manuscript really helps the most to understand what is going on.


----------



## denny (Aug 2, 2006)

This page includes a list of all articles published by Walt Wright including his "Checkerboarding" articles

http://www.knology.net/~k4vb/all walt articles.htm


----------

