# Screws or Nails?



## tibadoe (May 18, 2013)

Ready to assemble my deep NUC body along with other ten frame boxes. Comes with nails but was thinking of using wood screws. Seems like it would be more secure in the long run. What has been your experience?


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## Moots (Nov 26, 2012)

tibadoe said:


> Ready to assemble my deep NUC body along with other ten frame boxes. Comes with nails but was thinking of using wood screws. Seems like it would be more secure in the long run. What has been your experience?


Well...I think screws are stronger than nails...But I think a good quality wood glue is stronger than either, and the most important component of assembly! 

I use Titebond III, a lot of folks will tell you Titebond II is sufficient, and they're "probably" right, but I like a little over-engineering!  ...I finish it of with pneumatic staples.

If you are going to use glue, I think nails are more than sufficient...If you're not going to use glue, I think screws is the better choice, but still don't think it will match up to basically any reasonable fastener used in conjunction with a quality glue....But understand, as with EVERYTHING in Beekeeping, opinions do vary!


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## Woodchip (May 29, 2013)

I use screws exclusively. But I only have seven hives so the extra cost and extra time are of no concern to me. 

Why? I have a large wood deck and have grown tired of fighting the nails that keep popping up through the seasons. I figure why fight the same potential problem on my hives. Fix it once and for all. I also predrill all my screw holes to eliminate any chance of splitting the wood. 

It works for me.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

Use screws with TiteBond II or III glue.... 

I seal over the exposed end grain with TiteBond as well. Same for the heads of fasteners.


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## KPeacock (Jan 29, 2013)

USE GLUE! titebond II or Titebond III will work fine. I like the advertised qualitites of III better, but I buy II in the gallon jugs. TBIII is less viscous than TBII so i find that it makes for more of a mess when I'm assembling parts. 

To answer your fastener question, if you're going to nail themn together with naisl and a hammer, I'd use screws. if you're using an air nailer/stapler then I'd go with staples. I'm sure screws are better overall, but air nailing is WAY faster. Last night I cut out and assembled 7 deeps, 10 bottom boards, 10 covers, and 12 5-frame nucs. I doublt i would have gotten them all assembled is I was hand nailing or screwing.

Fortunately, whatever decision you make will be the correct one as long as you use glue as well 


use glue


glue.


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## Bkwoodsbees (Feb 8, 2014)

Glue then 2 screws per side and finish with crown staples or nails. The screws pull corners tight.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

I use Tightbond III and 2-1/2" x 12ga stainless steel ring shank nails.

https://www.tupent.com/shop/stainless-nails/box-nails_238/index.html

The ringshank nails hold better than regular nails and go in faster than a screw. I drive 'em in with a 2-1/2 lb sledge hammer. Two strokes per nail and the joint is tight with glue squirting out. The 12ga nail is thinner than a screw and so less chance of splitting the wood, and the stainless steel nails won't rust. The ringshank nails hold things real tight while the glue hardens. Once the glue has dried, the joint is rock solid, and I don't think the fastener contributes much to the strength so screws provide no advantage, IMHO. I coat the end grain with the glue so it is sealed really well.

Lots of ways to skin this cat, though.


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

KPeacock said:


> but I buy II in the gallon jugs.
> 
> 
> use glue
> ...


Titebond III comes in gallons too. I own one of them. It is thick glue. I glue everything. All joints on all woodenware and frames.


Oh, and to the original poster. USE GLUE! LOL I glue and staple my boxes together initially to get them together faster and then usually put about 3 screws per joint before the glue sets. I am building some nucs now and have not used any screws, just glue and staples. I may go back and put screws. The first boxes I got were some that I bought. They were nailed together with no glue. Stupidity at its finest. After one season they are coming apart at the seams. Those were the fancy finger jointed boxes. I use lap joints on the ones I build. Boxes I built less than a month after buying the ones last year have absolutely no separation at any joint. They were glued and screwed together. I am going to remove the 4 boxes that I purchased and take them apart and glue and screw them together before they start to rot.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Nails


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

tibadoe said:


> Ready to assemble my deep NUC body along with other ten frame boxes. Comes with nails but was thinking of using wood screws. Seems like it would be more secure in the long run. What has been your experience?





sqkcrk said:


> Nails


Really? 

From "your experience" you've decided that nails are more secure or are you simply stating (in a brief manner) that you use nails?


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

narrow crown staples


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

Box joint and nails. How well it holds has more to do with the quality of wood (Generally bad) than the fastener.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

BeeCurious said:


> Really?
> 
> From "your experience" you've decided that nails are more secure or are you simply stating (in a brief manner) that you use nails?


I use nails. Screws cost more. You can't drive them w/ a hammer. They cut end grain. Nails is what I use and prefer. Staples are faster. I don't need to be faster. Faster is dangerous, sometimes. Power tools mean that mistakes can be made faster. But that's me.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

Mark you comment above reminds me of this definition of a Table Saw. "An expensive and highly precise machine used for cutting lumber to short".


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Yeah Daniel. Most of my wood working experience came from ax, crosscut saw, and pit saw, hand planes and hand saws, so, what do I know about modern wood working?


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

Daniel Y said:


> Mark you comment above reminds me of this definition of a Table Saw. "An expensive and highly precise machine used for cutting lumber to short".


I can attest to the fact that a super deluxe sliding, compound mitre saw can cut 10 nuc tops too short in less than 5 minutes. Although I think it was the free pencils fault for marking the boards too short.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Well, at least it was the boards and not the fingers. I thought that was where you were headed.


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

sqkcrk said:


> Well, at least it was the boards and not the fingers.


No, but I did almost lose one of those in a plate roll at our shop today. Glove got caught in the roll.


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## Matt NY (Jan 14, 2006)

Nails are plenty, glue is overkill, screws are way over the top. And, No, I don't have empirical knowledge of this. But, I do know a hawk from a handsaw.


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## mark williams (Jan 19, 2003)

I've used both over the years.I like screws better.
I've got some older boxes that the nails has backed out.Pulled the nails & then used screws in there place, should last several more years,
Also like beecurious ideal about putting glue on the end grain of the wood.Mark,,,,,


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## Bob J (Feb 25, 2013)

inch and a half narrow crown staples with a pneumatic stapler.... Fast and secure.....


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

I made a squaring jig to build my boxes all the same and only have one side exposed so I use TB II and use the screws to hold it in place (two only in the sides, counter sunk). If I use screws I only do the outsides if I use nails I do the fronts and all the fingers. I like the screws, but I am the guy that sands the box when he is done. I am also only building about 25 a year so some overkill is fine. I will say that I only sand the sides, after the first year of sanding all sides I was asked why with my furniture building skills I did not use finger joints. I started leaving fingers unfinished for the look. If it is worth doing, it is worth over doing.


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

Nails with no glue is adequate, since that is how bee boxes have been put together since they were invented in the 1870's. Nails with Titebond II or III should be as strong as it's possible to get them.

Screws are not much benefit in this application as a very slight over-torque when fully seated will simply strip the wood fibers along the length of the screw and give you a fairly expensive nail with less holding power.

Pneumatic nailers, as a rule, will not draw a joint tight like hammering a standard nail in will, they are ballistic, not driven. Makes a difference in how the energy is transferred. 

You, of course, can use whatever you like. I'm sort of old-fashioned, and I prefer hot dip zinc galvanized nails if I can find them (they don't rust) and glue. The claptrap about how "galvanizing" doesn't prevent rust is there because the crappy plastic zinc powder coating on "galvanized" plastic coated nails is removed by the friction with the hammer when you drive them, and with the plastic gone, there is no galvanic protection from corrosion and the heads rust. Hot dip nails will not rub through, and do NOT rust, that's why they are zinc dipped. Hard to find through, and may not actually be available new. 

Peter


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