# Quick, Lots of bees to install!



## dnelson (May 19, 2009)

I'm hoping to get some ideas for installing about 50 packages in a short amount of time. Last week I found out my bees are coming on Easter Sunday! I haven't had a problem with a few packages but this time I'm going for 50 (of course they weren't supposed to come on Easter)

So if anyone has a few tricks to get them in fast with hives close together please let me know. They are not all in the same yard, they are spread between 4 different ones.

Does anyone here install theirs at night?:scratch:


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## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

Are they going on foundation? How are you going to feed them? Are the hives bodies in place and ready for the packages?


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## concrete-bees (Jun 20, 2009)

haha -- ME too !!! 

but im just going to spray them and install them as i go - it goes quick - once you start -

but my advice is to be prepared --- have your feed mixed up Saturday night and in the feeders - have the boxes ready to go - 

sunday morning take the center frames out and have every hive looking the same - tops off and ready for dumpings 

when you get the bees home - set the packs at there soon to be hive and then start -


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## dnelson (May 19, 2009)

They each get at least 1 frame of comb, the rest is just foundation. About half are using inverted pails on top and the others are getting division board feeders with #8 hardware cloth in them for feeding. A few is also getting full frames of honey. The hives are all set and ready to go, except one yard I need to level them up a bit when i go back to it to install the bees, but it doesn't have many hives on it.


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## dnelson (May 19, 2009)

Has anyone had a problem with putting them in before 7:00am or after dark, or drifting all over the yard?

We will be heading to church in the morning and supposed to have the big family get together at about 5:00 which is for Easter, My B-day, my Moms B-day and anyone else who probably has a B-day this year


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## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

If there is rain in the forecast do not go ahead and open all boxes and remove frames. Do that as you are installing. 

You can use a 2" rim, set the queen on the top bars, shake bees(sprayed with syrup) on top of the frames and put on cover then pail feeder. Come back the next day and remove rim.

It is best to install in the afternoon, some people will install at night to prevent drift problems. If you spray them down with sugar syrup they are slow to move over onto frames if you take out 2-3 frames and shake them in the open space.

If you have inner covers with hole- install queen cage between center frames 2" back or forward of hole. Make the initial shake(no syrup on bees) with enough bees to cover queen. Put on inner cover then set cage on cover hole to hole, the bees will move in(don't do this if cold and/or rainy).


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

With that many packages, I don't think I'd shake. I'd remove enough frames to set the package cage down inside the hive, hang the queen between the two frames the very closest to the cage, put on the feed and close them up. Come back Monday or Tuesday and remove the package cages and shake out any remaining bees, insert frames and close them up. Might get less drifting this way and it'll be faster than trying to shake.


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## honeyman46408 (Feb 14, 2003)

I am with Ray
If you shake that many packages come monday you will have some hives full of bees and some almost empty or you could just leave them on the packages untill monday and install but I still wouldnt shake but thats just me.


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## Naturegoods (Mar 12, 2010)

First - I've never attempted so many packages.
Second - looking at your Sunday schedule..... seems most of the packages will get hived on Monday, and that should not be a problem. You may even recruit some assistants during the day. You've got a few thousand dollars worth of packages there as I'm sure you're all too well aware. Maybe just get the nearest yard done Sunday afternoon before the 5pm thing and store the rest in quiet cool place until Monday.
I like the beeslave ideas but they require additional items you may not have like the rims or extra supers as tall as the package.... or was his plan to set the package on the inner cover and leave it there exposed untill the bees moved out. Seems like the least violent method of adding a lot of bees. No syrup needed, no blister from squirting down 50 packs with a squirt bottle. Less drift because the bees just walk into there new home and the queen is already there. I like it. I'll try that next time I hive a cutout or swarm - no packages for me this year.
Coffee is gone and burning daylight....good luck on the weather for this event.....and happy birthday.....to your mother :lpf:


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## dnelson (May 19, 2009)

I like these responses. I have never tried to just leave the package in the box and let them walk out but I think I might have to give it a whirl this time.

with this much money invested, i would hate to loose a bunch of these (I'm bad enough at knocking off my queens, I don't want to get into the habit of knocking off whole packages:doh


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## beedeetee (Nov 27, 2004)

Leaving the package box in the hive for the night(s) was how I did it the last few times I got packages. I put the queen cage between two frames, shake a few bees over the queen and then put the package cage in the hive to the side of the frames. A few days later I remove the package and replace the missing frames.

Just be sure to shake some bees over the queen so that she isn't left alone. The problem with this method is that you have to remove 5 frames and then a few days later come back and replace them. If your yards are close, this will still be the most sure method (IMHO).


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## honeyman46408 (Feb 14, 2003)

beedeetee said:


> Leaving the package box in the hive for the night(s) was how I did it the last few times I got packages. I put the queen cage between two frames, shake a few bees over the queen and then put the package cage in the hive to the side of the frames.


Even if you dont shake bees on the QC they will smell her and she wont bee lonely long.

As some one else stated I have never done that many at one time *dats a LOT of bees,* and at my age I would bee there all night


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## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

I haven't installed a package in 7 yrs. until last night and this morning. It took me 5 hrs for 100 and that included putting the 2 gallon feed pail on top.

Method-Cover with hole- installed queen cage between center frames 2" back or forward of hole(so when feeder pail was put on the syrup didn't run down on queen). Two frames removed with that space 1 frame over from queen on the side I shook from. I made the initial shake in 2 frame space(no syrup on bees) with most bees that came out easy to cover queen. Put on migratory cover then set cage on cover hole to hole, the bees left in cage moved inside hive. After 50 packages were done I went back to start, removed cage, and put on feeder pail

1 package(making it 101) took 20 min. It was for my 10 yr old daughter who is going to run 1 hive for 4-H and I went through explaining all the motions and reasons to her while she helped.


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

DNelson:

I think it's amistake to spread them in 4 yards. Too much travel time, especially if you have mostly foundation for those things. They'll need plenty of feed. So spend the resources feeding them, not driving. Later once all is established and going like sya in 4-5 weeks then spread them around. I'd do this at the point when they might need the second box.

Jean-Marc


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Like others have sais hopefully you'll have everything ready and laid out. Pull frames out for a place to dump the bees, then shake shake shake. Nightime is a good time to dump packages, less drifting. Oh and happy birthday to you and your Ma.

Jean-Marc


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## chrissv (Oct 12, 2008)

I just got the new Bee Culture magazine today, and there was an article about hiving a package where no shaking is involved (except to get about a cup or 2 of bees out). Basically it uses a 3rd empty hive body on the bottom with the open package inside it. Above that is your "regular" have body with frames plus the queen cage suspended (with a couple cups of bees to start them out). Then a pail feeder on top of that surrounded by a 3rd hive body.

After a couple of days you go out and remove the lower hive body + (now empty) package, and put the (formerly 2nd) deep hive body on the bottom board.

It's supposed to minimize the amount of flying bees, which if you are installing 50 packages, is probably a good thing 

-- Steven


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

That's the way I do it, except I have the empty on top of the body with comb. 
Remove & place queen, spill a little bees on her, lay down package, place lid. 
Release queen directly next day, remove package cage.


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## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

Ron Householder installs 800 packages or so each year. I wish he would chime in and say how he does it but he is probally busy installing his own.


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## JBJ (Jan 27, 2005)

I would spread them out after they are hived and well fed. Two guys can do 1500 lbs in a night if well organized, so this should be realtively simple. I like to dump the bees out completely in the hive, especially if the weather is inclement and cold. I have seen the "leave the cage in the box" method fail when a severe cold snap comes before the bees can cover the queen. If it is raining, find a way to work in a dry spot, and a bright red LED or red work light. The bees will not fly towards red light. Estimating a very generous 5 minutes per per package, 50 packages should take about four to five hours if you have no travel time. Truthfully, with experience it can go much faster once you get the hang of dumping the bees out of the cage.


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## dnelson (May 19, 2009)

Beeslave said:


> Ron Householder installs 800 packages or so each year. I wish he would chime in and say how he does it but he is probally busy installing his own.


You are right! he dropped mine off and had his trailer full. I met him in Kentucky at about 5:00am and he was heading north to get busy.

Thanks all for the happy b-day
We got through almost all 50 between church this morning and our get together.

I would have to say I wish I had them all together right now:doh: Or at least closer yards would be nice. I probably made one owner mad when my wife got stuck in his yard with our big van.:no:


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## KSbee (Feb 18, 2005)

In the past when installing large volumes of packages I've removed the queen, replaced the lid and dunked the package under water for a second or two, then shook the bees into the hive and replaced frames.

I've had good luck with this method. Keeps the bees from flying and drifting and they shake out much easier. I wouldn't suggest doing it in cold, wet weather but 60 deg f with sun should be fine.


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

Hows it going? Did you get them all finished?


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## Naturegoods (Mar 12, 2010)

I suspect that he is still rather busy this morning!


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## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

dnelson said:


> Thanks all for the happy b-day
> We got through almost all 50 between church this morning and our get together.
> 
> I would have to say I wish I had them all together right now:doh: Or at least closer yards would be nice. I probably made one owner mad when my wife got stuck in his yard with our big van.:no:


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## dnelson (May 19, 2009)

We removed the package the bees came in today and added the frames that were taken out. 2 of the hives seem to be short of excitement while the next door neighbor hives are having a good time, I guess 2 out of 50 isn't that bad for drifting. I didn't know whether or not to try to add bees back to them or not.

Man are they hogging down the syrup!


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## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

Sorry Doug I've been a little bit busy.

I just put in 600+ packages in the last two days. I ran a 4 man crew. All the hive were set this last winter and spring. I set them with 6 frames of syrup and a frame or two of pollen, with the emply frame in the middle.
The weather was almost to warm for shaking this year. I had to spray almost all of them to keep them from drifting. The best time is about an hour before dark. It a little bit harder after dark.
After all the shaking, start getting your equipment around for spliting. If things go right I'll be starting to split in 5-6 weeks.

If you still have any questions please feel free to call.
Ron


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## dnelson (May 19, 2009)

How are you doing Ron?

Well today I started to let a few of my queens out, got into a hurry, and one of my queens flew off. There I stood with a stupid look on my face while left. I have never had that happen before. Does anyone know if they ever come back or should I hurry and get a new one?


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## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

She may come back but where will she go. She doesn't know where her home is. Plug the hole on your queen cages with a small marshmallow. The bees will chew that out in less than a day. Doing that you will avoid the problem with the queen flying away.


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## 11x (May 14, 2009)

KSbee said:


> I've removed the queen, replaced the lid and dunked the package under water for a second or twoQUOTE]
> 
> for real????? dunked the package under water??? i am not buying this one:no:


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## RDY-B (May 20, 2007)

thats the way Bell Honey dose it-if im not mistaken-seams to me thats how they where doing there aussie packages in Almonds-ABJ article-RDY-B
may-2005
pg-378


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## KSbee (Feb 18, 2005)

11x said:


> KSbee said:
> 
> 
> > I've removed the queen, replaced the lid and dunked the package under water for a second or twoQUOTE]
> ...


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## Countryboy (Feb 15, 2009)

I went up and helped Ron Householder shake his packages this year. I took my video camera and taped a little bit. Here are two short clips of how Ron shakes packages.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wl84QOmejCg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5__v4qj3RLY

I also taped package installs for two complete beeyards. One beeyard was 21 minutes, and the other beeyard took 23 minutes. Once I get the videos uploaded to youtube, I will post links for those videos. My ISP has a bandwidth limit during the day, so I have to upload large files in the middle of the night - I will try to get them uploaded this weekend.


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## Countryboy (Feb 15, 2009)

On Sunday and Monday we were running a 4 man crew. By Monday night, we had the bulk of the bees installed, and only had a few yards to do Tuesday. Two members of the work crew only worked Sunday and Monday, and Ron's Dad helped him and me Tuesday to give us a third man. Job duties weren't as clearly defined for Tuesday, so everyone did a little bit of different jobs. Ron also had a couple hives that overwintered, so the beeyard work also involved splitting those hives and was not limited to only doing package installs.

Since we were working at a slower pace, I was able to get a couple complete yards taped. I got one yard completely uploaded to YouTube last night. This is 23+ minutes - I set up the camera right after I got out of the truck, and shut off the camera before I got back into the truck to leave. YouTube only allows 10 minute videos, so I have this split into 3 parts. if you have any questions, please ask as I do not provide dialogue during the video.

Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fl4jeIl9mCA
Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sHfr1PCp7s
Part 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yt9Xssa5o-4

I will try to get the second yard uploaded tonight.


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## Countryboy (Feb 15, 2009)

I got the videos for the second beeyard uploaded.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdW7MOBmymg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1gCq3sN0sI


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## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

Wow! packages season is DONE for this year. The best time that I've done is 42 yards with 625 packages in 27 hours. No snow or rain. Highs was only in the 50's. 
This year was to warm.Package took more time to put in because of the warmer weather this year. Might be doing alot of early splits.

Have to put a big thanks out to the guys that helped this year. 
Thanks to Brian,Mark and ofcoarse Dad too.

Only 14 weeks until new crop.:banana::banana: Time flies when your having fun!!!!


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## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

Out of curiousity- You stated(in the past) you spray the combs full of syrup before installation. If so why does an excluder and honey supers go on at the time of installation? Is the syrup in the bottom deep? If so why did no syrup come out of the combs when they were being slammed around and layed on the side when the bees were being shook in?


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## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

I spray the thick syrup in at 160 deg. with 120 psi. By filling the frames with syrup I gain 2-3 weeks in bee production. I put the queen excluder on with supers that way the bee get the hang of going up to fill my honey supers.:scratch: That and I only run them in a single and in a few week they will need more room. With running so many hive I might not get back to them in time. You never want to plug out your bees. Cost you to much money with lost production. As you might see I stack all my honey supers up in my yards that way there already there when I need them. When it comes to honey production bees won't wait for more boxes and they don't take it next door to store enough.:no:


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## Countryboy (Feb 15, 2009)

_Is the syrup in the bottom deep? If so why did no syrup come out of the combs when they were being slammed around and layed on the side when the bees were being shook in?_ 

The syrup is really thick. Uncapped honey won't run out if you put a comb on its side, unless it is really green nectar. The center combs are empties so the queen can start laying right away. The syrup combs are on the outsides. Most of the frames you see being pulled were empties, but now and then you see a frame with syrup.


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## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

Thanks for the clarification/explanation. I'm just thinking of running in your shoes. Sounds like an effective/economical way of honey production.


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

*42 yards 625 pkgs 27 Hours*

Ron is looking to hire someone who can keep up with him...


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## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

The only thing 2 wild tomcats accomplish is a good fight so I will stay with my family and my 1 man band here. After shaking in 100 packages myself(5 hrs all in 1 yard) and the 500 I have left out of CA I will be busy this summer. Fields of dandelion blooming already. Time to keep knockin them down and supering next week after moving them to their honey production yards. They won't pack in to much with 250 to a yard now.


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

RayMarler said:


> With that many packages, I don't think I'd shake. I'd remove enough frames to set the package cage down inside the hive, hang the queen between the two frames the very closest to the cage, put on the feed and close them up. Come back Monday or Tuesday and remove the package cages and shake out any remaining bees, insert frames and close them up. Might get less drifting this way and it'll be faster than trying to shake.


This is the way I do it. This way if it rains it is not a big deal because they are crawling out and not flying in the rain.


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## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

*Re: 42 yards 625 pkgs 27 Hours*



Tom G. Laury said:


> Ron is looking to hire someone who can keep up with him...


Tom those #'s were with a 4 man crew. This years #'s was 39 yards 633 pkgs 29 hours even with the warmer weather. And only getting stuck once, which cost me a half hour. Really nothing to complain about. With the shortage of bees I feel pretty luck with what Wilbanks supplied me this year. Two weeks late on the package will cut back on shaking packages in May for sale.Start spliting in a few week to brake up so of the one's that drifted.


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