# Using 2" x material to build deeps & supers?



## appalachianoutdoors (May 16, 2015)

Have access to some 2"x pine finished material. Interested in building some boxes. Weight not being a consideration, anyone done this? Liked or not? Winter better with thicker boxes?


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## Dubhe (Jul 19, 2007)

While you can make boxes out of anything, 2x included, I hardly think it's worth the labor and weight costs. I like using 2x for tops and bottom boards. Most of my 3 frame observation hive came from 2x4s.

http://www.myoldtools.com/Bees/bottomboard/bottomboard.htm


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## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

Have made about 10 deep supers using 2 inch material. Cost about half the price of pre cut.

Used rabbet joints for the corners. Fastened corners with outdoor wood glue and wood screws. Corners were some problem to cut and make tight as there is often a slight curve of the wood over 12 inches. Used wood clamps extensively.

Supers are functional. Slightly more insulation with 2 inch material but it is not much more.

Used wood cleats for handles and remove them to install styrofoam insulation for winter. Recessed grip would be better.

Have since gone to pre cut supers that are about 7/8 inch. Nice to standardize on one type of hive stands, bottom boards, feed rims, Miller feeders, inner covers, and outer covers, and insulation/winter wraps.


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## appalachianoutdoors (May 16, 2015)

Dubhe said:


> While you can make boxes out of anything, 2x included, I hardly think it's worth the labor and weight costs. I like using 2x for tops and bottom boards. Most of my 3 frame observation hive came from 2x4s.
> 
> http://www.myoldtools.com/Bees/bottomboard/bottomboard.htm


Just to clarify, these are 2" x10" x12' boards. Just curious to others prior experiences.


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## Ted n Ms (Apr 25, 2008)

Just to clarify, these are 2" x10" x12' boards. Just curious to others prior experiences. 

If this a true 2 x 10 it would work.If it came from a lumber supply it will lack 1/8'' being deep enough for deep hive body. It will measure 1 1/2 x 9 1/2. You need 95/8.


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

down the road with more experience your probably going to say to your self what was I thinking? lol


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## Cabin (Nov 30, 2014)

appalachianoutdoors said:


> Just to clarify, these are 2" x10" x12' boards. Just curious to others prior experiences.


I am working on 2X10 supers as well. I kept the outside measurements the same as a 10 frame super so as to be able to use standard bases for mite control. I have ended up with a 9 frame box. When I made my long lange out of 2X10 I ripped down a 1X6 to add 3/4 inches to the height. Making this just incase my weaker hive does not manage to fill up the long lange before winter..


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

If the 2" wood is much cheaper than typical lumber, then I would consider whether the extra weight would be the deciding factor. A full 10-frame deep made of 7/8ths inch lumber already weighs nearly 90 lbs, so every oz. saved is good from my point of view. 

Wood itself is a poor insulator compared to foam insulation (wood @ R-1 per full inch; standard foam insulation panels R-5 per inch). Lynchburg may feel cold you in the winter (I used to live in Rappahannock Co., VA), but I am north of Albany, NY, where it is really cold, and for months longer, so I do insulate with foam panels. Some insulation where you are might be useful, but probably not essential.

Thicker boards would also mean more opportunities to squish bees between boxes due to the larger area of the edges at the meeting surfaces.

Plus either the interior cavities would be smaller or every part you didn't make would be a poor fit with your hand-made boxes. Think top feeders, fume boards, Snelgrove boards, Qexcluders, beetle trays, triangle exit boards, and on and on. You're setting yourself up for having to make everything (forever), or abandonning all that effort later on, or liviing with the frustration of having two different, not quite matching sets, of bee-stuff.

Best advice I got in my first year: keep it simple and do what everybody around you is doing (and use the same basic equipment) so as to minimize the points of variance as you learn. You'll find plenty of ways to customize as you go along, but learning the "standard way" for your area has huge benefits starting out.

Heavier lumber would make fabulous stands however. Flimsy stands not up to the weight of unplanned-for additional stacks and/or a beekeeper standing up next to them will only lead to grief.

Lucky you to be able to even contemplate making your stuff, and having the skills and tools to do so. The best I can muster is assembling pre-cut, pre-dilled 2" shims. I can get 'em straight, flat, and square (most of the time!)

Enj.


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

Ted n Ms said:


> If this a true 2 x 10 it would work. If it came from a lumber supply it will lack 1/8'' being deep enough for deep hive body. It will measure 1 1/2 x 9 1/2. .


For dimensional softwood lumber, around these parts, a 2x10 is 9 1/4" and too small to use for a standard depth deep. Hardwoods might vary as well as green lumber coming out of back-woods or back yard sawmills, but 9 1/4" is the only size of a nominal 2X10 we design for.

I have used standard 2Xs but resawn them to 3/4" on the bandsaw. I found it to be a good way to use free cut-offs.

Wayne


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## appalachianoutdoors (May 16, 2015)

enjambres said:


> If the 2" wood is much cheaper than typical lumber, then I would consider whether the extra weight would be the deciding factor. A full 10-frame deep made of 7/8ths inch lumber already weighs nearly 90 lbs, so every oz. saved is good from my point of view.
> 
> Wood itself is a poor insulator compared to foam insulation (wood @ R-1 per full inch; standard foam insulation panels R-5 per inch). Lynchburg may feel cold you in the winter (I used to live in Rappahannock Co., VA), but I am north of Albany, NY, where it is really cold, and for months longer, so I do insulate with foam panels. Some insulation where you are might be useful, but probably not essential.
> 
> ...


Very good thinking points. Rappahannock is a nice place. As to building things, one of my employees is a great wood worker wants to take this on as a project with me. Sounds like I'll be sticking to standard material for building boxes.


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## kaizen (Mar 20, 2015)

i built all my boxes over last winter. while they work my joints are not as good as a 13dollar mann lake deep. i'll never build another again. just simply not worth time. I put together 4 last night in less then 20 minutes with an air stapler.
if you do use 2x material I would recommend planning it as it needs to be furniture grade square. I did not go with this high level of accuracy and I have gaps between my boxes that I built. no way I can use them in the winter.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

All my 60 hives are made from 2 x lumber. 

IMO they are far superior to anything else!

2 x lumber is better quality off the shelf at any hardware store. What ever they call that crap they sell as 1 x lumber is junk. My first boxes were 1 x lumber. The second batch I made while cutting a board it split with the grain. I returned the broken pieces for a refund and never looked back. 

2 x lumber will out perform any test. It is made to construct buildings that support thousands of pounds, 1 x lumber is made for trim or shelves.

Better insulation in winter and summer (which equates to more honey and better winter survivability)
Fewer knots and less defects. 
There is no need to search through the stack to find the best piece, most 2 x 12 lumber is good quality.
Knots are solid, very rarely can you find a knot that can be push through in 2 x lumber
It's not going to falling over in the wind.
Substantially cheaper. Around 6 or 7 dollars a deep. 
Can drop it and it's not going to break. 
Empties make an excellent seat while working on small hives. 
If kept painted it will last a couple of lifetime's. You or your kids will never need to replace it.

Draw backs; 
It weighs more.
Not for sale, you will have to make them.


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

I built three nucs out of 2x12 lumber (my old walk boards).
After moving them around two or three times I decided real quick that they were the last bee boxes I would ever build out of 1.5" thick lumber. Look at 100 honeybee videos on youtube. There will be all sorts of hives but I doubt you spot any "tanks" like you're talking about building. There is a guy who hollows out logs with a chainsaw though. 


I like this idea better, orrr you could use bricks. The big bad wolf would never ruin our [email protected]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fq5ZTtNfonM

Here is another reason to avoid 2 x materials. The larger (10 and 12) are generally yellow pine which will rot right out from under the paint. But first build a nice picnic table and see.


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## Sky (Jul 7, 2015)

go for it... 
if the price of the 2x is good (free is better) then use them... 
I have a couple deeps made from 2X10 material - I made the interior of the boxes match my other boxes and added a 3/4 wide strip to the top (flush with the inside) cut to get my 9 5/8 height. The 3/4 strip mates up with everything else I have, supers, shims, excluders, etc. Hand holds are cut 3/4 deep which is nice. The 2X is heavier and bulkier but works well for brood chambers and makes the stack seem just a wee bit more solid. Nothing wrong with using 2X material. 

As far as wintering goes - I doubt if the difference between 3/4 and 1 1/2 is enough to make a significant difference. So long as the bees are dry and healthy, they should survive in a hive made from just about anything....


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

I make some really cool boxes with 2 x lumber on the 16 1/4" ends, and 3/4" thick for the long sides.

The inside dimensions are standard, but the long sides are longer than the 19 7/8" that is used for 3/4" thick wood. The long sides of these boxes work out to 21 7/16" long.

My only reason for doing this was to make deeper smile handles on the ends (I never seem to use smile handles on the long sides, so why even make them?), but the finger box joints come out twice as strong! I hardly notice the small amount of extra weight. 

I make my own tops and bases, so they all fit. 

The only disadvantage? I don't really see any...You don't crush extra bees if you brush the sides and smoke them down into the box before stacking the next box on.

Insulation in C O L D country is done with polystyrene foam and roofing paper. Thicker wood is negligible for insulation.


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## Cabin (Nov 30, 2014)

kilocharlie said:


> Insulation in C O L D country is done with polystyrene foam and roofing paper. Thicker wood is negligible for insulation.


Yes and no. Wood is negligible insolation. Thicker wood is better than thinner wood though. Currently working on a garden hive made from 2xs. I made it a 9 frame to keep the out side measurements the same as a traditional 10 frame made with 1xs. Not sure if the removal of 1 deep frame will make up for the added wood weight but I do not plan on doing a lot of lifting anyway.


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## Little-John (Jun 18, 2015)

appalachianoutdoors said:


> Just to clarify, these are 2" x10" x12' boards. Just curious to others prior experiences.


Those boards would make superb Long Hives - I make mine from 1.5", but I'd much rather use 2".

LJ


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

I'd rather that the inside dimensions are standard, and make up longer boxes. My whole point is that the smile handles give a *WHOLE LOT BETTER GRIP!*, and I am delighted with stronger joints.

True that more wood is better, but wood does not insulate like foam! 3" of foam keeps the bees 20 to 50 degrees warmer, but when package wrapped 4 or 6 to a pallet with foam and roof paper and stretch film, there *MUST BE upper hive ventilation*. Gotta let the moisture out. Cold bees survive, wet bees die. Some beekeepers include an extra box of straw thatch on top before wrapping - it acts as a moisture buffer.


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