# Top Bar Placement



## Beev (Jul 16, 2011)

This is why top bar hives need to be manipulated a little more than other hives. The bees don't care how wide the bars are, they just build what they need. The problem you have is they tend to build their honey comb deeper than their brood comb, so if you dont check on them often, they will start to build comb off the bars or crossing bars as the thicker comb pushes them off track. I think lots of top bar keepers use all 1-1/4 or 1-3/8 bars, and when the bees start to build honey comb, they add spacers to keep em on track. They will tend to build the brood nest at one end, and when it seems large enough to them, they start adding honey comb. Most of the time.


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## Beethinking (Jun 2, 2008)

I use all 1 3/8" bars and just leave 1/8" gaps between them once they start making fat honey combs. So this means that generally in the brood nest the bars are butted tightly against each other. Once the bees start making honey combs I start leaving small gaps between them. You could use spacers, but I'm too lazy for those. The bees propolize the gaps shut very quickly. 

Best,
Matt


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## mrjackcoleman (Dec 30, 2011)

Thank you all very much.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I start with the 1 1/4" bars at the front (where my entrance is). Usually that's where they start the brood nest. If they start somewhere else, I just swap bars until the cluster is on 1 1/4" bars.


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## SteveBee (Jul 15, 2010)

Cacklewack,

Do the bees propolise these gaps? I don't have gaps on my bars and some hives still try to glue them all together.


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## rtsquirrel (Jan 6, 2010)

I'm building my first TBHs, and have been making all 1 3/8" bars. Will the girls build brood comb on these, or do I need to make some 1 1/4" bars?


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## mmiller (Jun 17, 2010)

The bees will build comb on any bar you place in there. I started with all 1 3/8" bars in my first couple tbh's. I've since changed to all 1 1/4". I found they stick to that size better. With the slightly larger bar they started getting just a little bit off and that can be a problem as they build further back into the brood nest. When they start building fatter comb for honey I start putting 1/4" spacers in between. 

Mike


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## rtsquirrel (Jan 6, 2010)

Thanks mmiller. looks like I need to shave my bars down a skosh. 

I also made them with a wax filled groove, instead of a strip of wood as a guide. From what I just read on Mr. Bush's website, I'm in for a disappointment. Good thing there's still time... Any thoughts?


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## mmiller (Jun 17, 2010)

Some people are very happy with using all 1 3/8" bars so you may be as well. I am only giving my experience and don't want to sound like its the only way to go. As far as waxed groove......I completely agree with M Bush. 

Mike


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## Beethinking (Jun 2, 2008)

rtsquirrel,

Definitely get a guide on there of some sort. Popsicle or otherwise, something must protrude!

Matt


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## Beethinking (Jun 2, 2008)

SteveBee,

Yes they do propolize the gaps shut.

Matt


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## rtsquirrel (Jan 6, 2010)

Thanks for the input. Not difficult to narrow the bars at all. As for guides, another thread in the forum shared an easy way to create a beveled guide for comb attachment. Thanks again.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I'm in for a disappointment.

I would say you MIGHT be in for a disappointment. I've experimented with one drawn comb and no guides at all just to see how they would space things. Some of them will build them perfect no matter what you do. Some will mess it up even with guides. The reality is you are stacking the deck. If you give them more than just a vague hint and give them a definite edge to work from, they will be the most likely to build it where you want. Personally I want the thing that is going to work almost all of the time instead of the thing that is going to work some of the time...

http://www.bushfarms.com/beestopbarhives.htm#guide
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfoundationless.htm#combguide


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## mrjackcoleman (Dec 30, 2011)

Michael Bush said:


> I start with the 1 1/4" bars at the front (where my entrance is). Usually that's where they start the brood nest. If they start somewhere else, I just swap bars until the cluster is on 1 1/4" bars.


This is what I wanted to hear; I needed to know where the 1 1/4 bars should be placed and where should the 1 1/2 bars be placed. By the way, I purchased your book (The Practical Beekeeper, Vols I, II, & III) and thoroughly enjoy the read. It's a valuable resource for me. Thank you.


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## PatBeek (Jan 13, 2012)

.

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but I recently read where they like to build their comb north-to-south, and if the top bars are not placed as such then they will try to compensate, making the combs crooked. How much should this be considered?

.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>How much should this be considered?

I have them facing every direction with no issues.


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## PatBeek (Jan 13, 2012)

Michael Bush said:


> >
> 
> I have them facing every direction with no issues.


Michael, your input is very much appreciated.

I am actually going to live dangerously and place the top bars east-west, as per your input.

.


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