# Picture of Candy Frames I made to give to bees that look low on honey



## virginiawolf (Feb 18, 2011)

I have some lovely bees that are from splits that I started later than desired. They have good brood patterns but haven't stored much honey. The bigger hives have robbed the smaller hives. 
Moving toward winter I have been figuring on giving them some honey from my stronger hives but also giving them candy boards. While in the mix of looking at all this information I thought why not try putting the candy on some frames as well as up top. I wanted to test out the consistency so I made a batch and tried it. I would prefer they had honey but as of yet they don't have much. I haven't taken any honey from them. I'm just trying to devise a way to give them plenty to munch on during the upcoming colder months. Im feeding them 2 parts sugar 1 part water now. 
Anyway I smeared the candy into some drawn comb and onto some plastic foundation tonight as a test really to see how it would stick etc. I used 16lbs sugar 3 cups boiling water and 1 tbsp of vinegar and a splash like a 1/4 cup of pollen substitute. I mixed it up till it was like a nice creamy frosting paste then poured it and smoothed it onto one side of the frame. I plan to do the other side once this side sets up. Does this seem like an O.K. plan? Thanks for reading this long post. Thanks to the forum. I'm curious if this idea is sweet VW
Here's a pic. I plan to let them dry for a week or so.


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

Wait, did you smear the candy on to foundation? Or comb?

There is a concept of candy boards, or candy frames. I'm assuming this is what you modeled it after.

I've used candy boards, but havn't used candy frames before. It's easier for me to use candy disks and feed it that way. I also like to add a little pollen sub to mine. Bees like it anyway.

Anyway, it looks good to me.


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## virginiawolf (Feb 18, 2011)

Hi Specialkayme, Thanks for responding. I actually had read your post about candy discs and it was part of what got me inspired/motivated. I edited my post because I did put like a splash of pollen substitute into it as well. I forgot to mention it. I did one frame where I used drawn comb and the other frame is plastic foundation and I just put it on that. It seems like it will stick but I'm not positive. Glad to hear you think it looks good I have some big hives that I split off of early and they seem to be doing really well. The smaller hives look healthy but just don't have much honey. This seemed like an option in conjunction with a candy board and giving them honey frames from my stronger hives as well. Here in P.A. the bees appear to be still working but I'm not sure if they are generating any fall honey or not. I'm sort of testing this winter feeding stuff out. This will be my second winter. I spent all year trying to learn about bees. I'm hoping to feel comfortable with the amount of stores they have going into winter but as it stands the small hives are light. I've read ya know honey is the best for them but I haven't heard anyone knock the candy as far as it being unhealthy. My recipe is based off a youtube video and the dash of pollen substitute I think I got from your candy disc post and sort of just splashed it in. If you had 50% honey and 50% candy in a top deep would this be satisfactory for wintering? Thanks to you and to the forum. VW


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## guyross (Feb 18, 2011)

Cool idea. I'm in the same situation with late splits with low stores.


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## virginiawolf (Feb 18, 2011)

Hi Guy, I guess were in a similar situation. I figure this could work. Like I'm thinking one or two on each side of the bottom deep then a top deep with honey and some of these. and some healthy eggs and larvae and pollen. 5 1/2 frames so far is 16lbs of sugar so ten deep frames of this would be 64 lbs of sugar. It seems like it could be ok if it was surrounding alot of healthy brood with a healthy queen. It's a bit different than just a candy board so I figured I'd see what forum members thought of such a plan. Thanks for replying I thought of this partly because if we get some warmer days in winter I figure I could put these right near the brood. I like how the top candy board will absorb moisture and allow ventilation. This is a warm up to making some of those. VW


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## guyross (Feb 18, 2011)

I hope you post pictures of the boards too. I a little confused about the path the cluster takes while eating there stores. I understand they don't need to come to an empty frame but what do they do when they finish the outside honey or candy frames? Does the cluster start in the middle and go either left or right and if so will they pass back over what they have eaten on the first pass to get the other half?


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## virginiawolf (Feb 18, 2011)

This is the model I'm following for the candy board. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_WLCc21-Hk&feature=mh_lolz&list=LLzEKR64zYd36cEDuULBCoqQ. As far as the way the cluster travels I think that when it gets really cold they go up and therefore into the honey in an upward fashion where it is warmer. It's tougher for them to move side to side. I looked up the word super out of curiosity and it means “a thing placed over or added to another” I figure a full deep above of honey and if needed candy frames with a candy board that has ventilation will be sufficient. I'm really new at this. I lost 2 hives last year from lack of stores in winter. One made it through with a full deep above so Thats what I'm shooting for. Around here people lost bees to starvation with frames of honey one frame over. I suppose thats why the food above is so key since they don't have to move as far from developing brood to get to frames left or right of the cluster. I figure I'll give them food left and right and above. Last year winter was cold like an extra month and it rained alot. The bees were kept from going anywhere in what I hoped should have been spring. It's strange to be worrying about winter in august but I'm more aware of temperatures and everything since I started being conscious of how the bees feel Hope the video post will help visualize the candy board. I'm using a queen excluder attached instead of a metal screen. I'm also putting a 1/4 inch shim under to give the bees room to move around under the candy. I made some but haven't added the sugar yet. Hopefully we can hear some more on this subject I haven't tested any of this yet VW


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

I didn't see the video, but will watch it tomorrow.

As far as the 50/50 honey and candy, I don't think I have an answer for you. I've never wintered colonies in PA (although I used to live there, and went to high school there). I don't know what kind of stores you will need.

But, you should count candy as an "emergency" ration, and put it in the hive as such. One of the reasons why I didn't make candy frames last year was because the path of the cluster in the winter is often unpredictable. They will often stay together and move toward the next available food source, but they don't always act rationally. I've had some starve while there was a frame of honey on the other side of the deep. I've also seen the cluster "break in two" and head in opposite directions (I saw a small cluster in the top right corner, with a larger cluster in the top left corner). Predicting where they will go (other than up) is difficult. Additionally, I like to let the bees organize their own hive from September on (at least in NC). This way they get things the way they want them, and I put candy on top in case they run out. I don't try to predict what they need, because they will know what they need the best.

But try it out. You never know until you try! Keep reading, keep experimenting, and keep learning. All the while, keep us posted. You are doing everything correct at the moment.


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## virginiawolf (Feb 18, 2011)

Specialkayme, Guy, Thanks for the encouragement I've been in P.A. for a while now. I suppose your preparing for hurricane? I hope it turns out O.K. for you !!! Some of my family is in Long Island and I hope it's ok for them and everyone for that matter. 

Thanks for the info on the unpredictability of how the cluster moves. I've read the reason they starve when honey frames are on the edges is because the bees wont let the brood get chilled so they starve as they tend to it. Protecting their future. I figure keep a bunch of honey around them then candy after that. I just moved the candy frames to a different location. The sugar stuck perfect to the plastic frames. As I moved them I was thinking about Guys question on how the cluster moves and as I picked up the plastic foundation frames I thought why not drill a bee sized hole through them so the bees could move through them more easily like they do with wax sometimes. I'll probably do that when I drill my holes on the candyboards. I like electric drills With the candy being hard like it is I figure it's tougher for the bees to eat/drink than honey. Apparently they can though. Bees are amazing I'm hoping the bees will bring in some more honey but this is the Emergency plan after that. 
Specialkayme Do you have alot of hives in the hurricanes path? I figure even mine here in P.A. Could blow over if the hurricane heads west. I'm watching it on weather channel right now. It's huge. VW


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

virginiawolf said:


> Specialkayme Do you have alot of hives in the hurricanes path?


I hope not. Most of my hives are about four hours drive in from the coast. Some more, some less. But last look at the map gave my hives some rain and some wind, but nothing serious. The coastal region is what is to be concerned about. mass evacuations and such.


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## KelpticFest (Apr 19, 2011)

Looks worth trying. Any suggestions on what to do if I have no spare drawn comb and no plastic foundation (just wax)?


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

You don't need comb at all.

Just pour it into an empty, foundationless frame. Make sure it's sealed on the bottom with wax paper or thick plastic. Pour it in like a mould.


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## KelpticFest (Apr 19, 2011)

Kewl. That weak hive won't know what to do with itself!


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## virginiawolf (Feb 18, 2011)

*Is there an official candy recipe for making these candy boards?*


I don't think running some wire through the frame would hurt as far as helping hold the candy in place. I got the recipe for candy boards and have only tested it for candy frames. The recipe I'm using is turning out quite firm but I kind of like having the foundation and or comb on the frame to give it support. I'm not positive it would hold without the foundation. Is there an official candy recipe for making these candy boards?


Kelpticfest If you test out making the frames without using foundation please let me know how it holds in place and if you're using the same candy board recipe I am 16lbs sugar mixed with 3 cups water that has a tablespoon of vinegar in it plus 1/4 cup of pollen substitute 

This is a nice link on winter feeding
http://www.indianahoney.com/ihf/drysugar/drysugar.html
Good Luck, Thanks VW


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## virginiawolf (Feb 18, 2011)

The latest batch of these I made must have had a bit too much water in the mix. The candy locked onto the frame but the moisture seeped down to the bottom when I put the frames in a deep to dry more. Luckily I put a garbage bag under the frames that caught that syrup. It could have been a huge mess. Beware the potential mess, but the bees love it. When I took some outside they all noticed and wanted some. I can see the after image of them flying around. Good Luck 
VW


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

Pics vw?


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## KelpticFest (Apr 19, 2011)

virginiawolf said:


> *Is there an official candy recipe for making these candy boards?*
> 
> 
> Kelpticfest If you test out making the frames without using foundation please let me know how it holds in place and if you're using the same candy board recipe I am 16lbs sugar mixed with 3 cups water that has a tablespoon of vinegar in it plus 1/4 cup of pollen substitute
> ...


Question: What's the vinegar for? I thought it repelled bees? How about lemongrass oil?


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

The candy frames are a great idea. But depending on what you are trying to do you might not have to go to that much trouble to get a similar result - I fed (about 1 inch thick - with mega bee pollen sub in it - which they love) slabs of candy last winter by just laying them on top of the bars and using an empty medium super as a shim. * I think* it worked great, because 100% of my 10 hives made it through the winter, and were threatening to swarm by April 1st - some did. 

However - all of my hives were double mediums, so no matter where the cluster went it was in contact with the candy - and with the candy on top it is easy to see if they are running out - also the candy slabs catch any condensed moisture before it drips on the cluster. If you winter in a deeper setup frames might be better. It worked so good for me last year I've forced all of my (now 20+) hives down into two boxes to try it again.


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

Very nice forward thinking... but keep some hopes up... a fall flow can be more productive than one might think, so long as there is room for the boom. Lol. We can usually produce a few supers per hive in a 3 week golden/aster flow.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Why don't you just feed enough 2:1 at the end of September? They'll store it in the comb right where they need it.


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

I can't speak for the thread starter, but personally I do rely heavily on the fall flow AND feed 2:1 from August on to any hive I think will need it. I usually slap on a candy disk anyway, as a type of added security. If they need it, they have it. If not, they leave it (and I only spent a combined couple of hours to prepare them all).


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## virginiawolf (Feb 18, 2011)

Thank You all for explaining, I was testing this out as backup plan. I split the bees a bit late and wasn’t sure how much they could draw out so like you said I was trying to forward plan. It’s good to know they can potentially fill some honey supers here in the next few weeks. I'm optimistic they will make some honey for sure but I don't know how much. They seem to be busy the past few days. What was left of the candy I made as a test really drew the attention of the bees. Here’s a video of them all over the spoon and bit of candy on the frames I dried the candy frames against. 
http://youtu.be/1y247L3OnSc

They found this candy in what seemed like seconds

It will be nice if they create a bunch of honey. The past month was dry and they weren't bringing much in. Perhaps I'm going to understand what the fall flow is all about here soon and the experience will ease me as far as worrying they're going to run low in winter. 
Thanks, Wolf


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

Candy frames put in the hive this time of year would likely be used as fall feed, and not necessarily the emergency feed they are originally intended as. At least, that's the case in September in North Carolina.

They found the candy in seconds because, well, it's sugar. You don't really want them to find it in seconds. The goal is to have them exhaust their regular stores, then exhaust their sugar syrup stores, then start on the candy boards.


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## virginiawolf (Feb 18, 2011)

Specialkayme, Hey, Thanks. The smaller hives haven't stored much yet. I wanted to see how they liked that candy. It was good to see they do. I'm on board with the order you're suggesting. They look really healthy. I'll let them gather from nature for a few more weeks and see how they do and go from there.
The bigger hives are producing capped honey.






 Hopefully the rest will too. Thank You, Wolf


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## Corvair68 (May 10, 2011)

Michael Palmer said:


> Why don't you just feed enough 2:1 at the end of September? They'll store it in the comb right where they need it.


What if you don't have any drawn comb? It seems on of my hives have stopped drawing comb. It is a cut out from June, They are in a single deep, and they haven't even filled that, and I have been feeding them all summer. Lazy bees?


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

You're right, at this point you probably have to work with the comb you have. 

If you have been feeding and they haven't been storing it away, you probably aren't feeding them fast enough. A good cheap way to feed them fast is get one of the clear plastic squarish 1/2 gal plastic jugs that juice comes in and punch the side of it full of holes using a push pin. Put that above an inner cover sitting on top of some twigs or something so the bees can get under it. Hundreds can feed at one time, and if they need it they will empty it in 24 hours.

Baggies will work too, but they aren't reusable.


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