# Swarm + 2 feet/2 mile Rule



## plantman (May 30, 2020)

I move immediately to stand location. It takes them a while before they begin foraging.


----------



## Lee Bussy (May 28, 2021)

Thank you. I "assumed" that they sort of "came with" loaded down honey crops, ready to draw new comb so would not be foraging for a bit. I am real good at bad assumptions, so it pays to check.


----------



## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Lee Bussy said:


> For those of you with swarm boxes on your property: Do you follow the 2 feet/2 mile rule?


If they had a chance to orient even for a couple of hours - sufficiently many bees will return to the box site.
If the swarm landed in the afternoon, the first foraging scouts will start orienting that very evening or first thing in the morning.
Make your decision based on that.


----------



## Lee Bussy (May 28, 2021)

Okay let's start with an easy one ... what color should my boxes be? 

The swarm trap is ~100 yards away so if I get one I'll see it the same day more than likely - but if they get "established" I need to do 2 feet/2 miles, correct?


----------



## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Lee Bussy said:


> Okay let's start with an easy one ... what color should my boxes be?
> 
> The swarm trap is ~100 yards away so if I get one I'll see it the same day more than likely - but if they get "established" I need to do 2 feet/2 miles, correct?


If you catch them the same day as they moved in - just move the same night and done.
But with _only_ 100 yards, I'd be relaxed and move them just the same even later if missed the day 0 - they will find the home soon enough.
OK, you can move them in 2-3 hops as well.
For say 20-30 foot move I don't even bother and just move them at will anytime - a complete non-issue.
If concerned - set a catch box and bring home the straggles.
I would not cry over 20-30 bees lost.

PS: it is your time and hassle - feel free to do the 2-mile anytime - it works 100%.


----------



## mill-j (10 mo ago)

In my experience I've only had one time where tiny cluster of bees(30-40?) formed at the trap site after moving the trap to the nearby yard, usually there's only about 1 to 5 that go back to the trap site. Move them after dark and put a bunch of honey suckle, autumn olive, cedar, etc branches with leaves directly over the entrance to where a bee can't fly out without hitting them. Works quite well if you don't have another yard to transfer them to. 

I've done this for years and very seldom transferred trapped bees more than two miles. As @GregB suggested, if it doesn't quite work, just put a cardboard box with a similar opening back at the trap site if too many go back. Then in the evening re-transfer them to the hive, add them and reset your branches.


----------



## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

all my trap sites are in a place > than 2 miles to one of my Apiary sites. so I do the 2 miles, because I can.
if done wrong it is possible to loose some of the foragers. , also if left for a few days AND the swarm had a virgin, you move it when she is out bad news.
or she made 1 or 2 flights then you move it then she does the last one. 

that is most of the risk. 

GG


----------



## ArkansasBK (Mar 5, 2011)

I have always taken them from the swarm trap and put them in a hive box at the swarm trap location, then immediately moved them to their permanent location. New home, new location. Have never had a problem.


----------



## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

ArkansasBK said:


> I have always taken them from the swarm trap and put them in a hive box at the swarm trap location, then immediately moved them to their permanent location. New home, new location. Have never had a problem.


if you can that works
most of my traps only get checked every 2 weeks or so.


GG


----------



## drummerboy (Dec 11, 2015)

All our traps are all within 200 yards of our bee yard, but most of the swarms we've caught (likely from our own yard) take up first in one of the several apple trees in front of our bee yard, so we have one there as well. So far, none have taken the bait. In fact we've had a few make their initial landing right next to the trap, even clustering around it, but no entry.

We've had the best luck attracting swarms (again, probably our own) by leaving an empty hive box in the yard, the traps have mostly a hit or miss for us, mostly a miss....so it goes. 

There's not a lot of beekeepers around here. The only one I know of is over 8 miles from us.


----------



## ArkansasBK (Mar 5, 2011)

Gray Goose said:


> if you can that works
> most of my traps only get checked every 2 weeks or so.
> 
> 
> GG


I think by putting them in the different box makes them think they have absconded the swarm trap and found a new home/location, regardless how long they have been in the swarm trap. Anyway, it works for me.
.


----------



## toddtruby (Apr 16, 2020)

I move them in the same yard if that’s where I want them. A QE on the bottom of the box makes sure they stay. I know it’s possible a skinny swarm queen could get out but I’ve never had it happen. A virgin swarm can be a bit of a problem but only because she probably can’t get out to mate. I caught over a dozen swarms at my house last year so I don’t put too much thought or effort into what happens or if it doesn’t work out


----------



## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

toddtruby said:


> I move them in the same yard if that’s where I want them. A QE on the bottom of the box makes sure they stay. I know it’s possible a skinny swarm queen could get out but I’ve never had it happen. A virgin swarm can be a bit of a problem but only because she probably can’t get out to mate. I caught over a dozen swarms at my house last year so I don’t put too much thought or effort into what happens or if it doesn’t work out


you got lucky they all had a mated queen.
before doing this neat trick, how many swarms "left" your hive?
if it has virgin only they you end up with a drone layer.
as well the drones cannot get out.

if it works for you....

GG


----------



## toddtruby (Apr 16, 2020)

If it’s a virgin nothing lost. I don’t leave them indefinitely just enough for them to settle in. Plus I’m in Florida and due to Africanized genetics we are required to requeen feral colonies.


----------



## jnqpblk (Apr 7, 2015)

Caught swarms have given up allegiance to their mother hive, so they can be set anywhere from right beside the mother hive to miles away from that hive. The swarm will reorient to the location you place them. They leave the mother hive looking for a new cavity to call home. If you capture them into another hive all the better. They'll orient to it.

The [3] feet/[3] mile rule is for moving established hives. And there is considerable detail making or breaking "that" rule!


----------



## Lee Bussy (May 28, 2021)

I appreciate all the thoughts. Here's hoping I get to put them to practical use. We're in our last snowstorm of the year most likely, but we needed the water badly. I don;t know if any of you have seen the "Cottonwood Complex" fire on the news, that's maybe 20 miles from here. Bad stuff.

The day before yesterday when the wind was calmer and about 70 degrees I stood there staring at a swarm box in a tree, willing a swarm to enter it. It's very early of course. Anyway, while I stood there two bees came and flew right in! I take that as a good sign. I am not sure if they are pre-scouts, or they are just wondering where the smell is coming from but at least two bees know where my box is.

I realize this is small potatoes for most of you, but I find it pretty exciting. At some point, I'll probably be cussing a swarm that enters one of my hives while I am preparing it for a new colony, but right now I think it's the coolest thing ever.


----------



## thill (Nov 30, 2020)

I let them settle in the box for at least a few days to a week, then close the hive up at night and move it to where I want it. 

I was taught to always put branches in front of moved hives to challenge them to learn the new flight pattern, and they don't seem to even notice they have been moved, as they are focused on learning how to get through the branches. 

So far, this advice has worked perfectly, but I've only done this with two colonies.


----------



## thill (Nov 30, 2020)

Update since my last post. Since then, I've caught three more swarms.

Here is a swarm I caught a few days ago that I moved again last night because of predicted storms. This is their third move within a few days. First, I moved them into a box, and set it up so the stragglers could smell queenie. They all found the hive, and no stragglers by the end of the day.

Then I moved them about 75', because I had to mow. No issues. 
And last night I moved them about 10', to a sheltered area because of impending storms. No issues.

The branch trick works. This morning, bees came out and hovered, doing orientation flights. After that, it was business as usual. They had no problems finding their hive and I didn't see any searching spots they were in before, and I was watching out of curiosity.

One of my mentors is a commercial beekeeper. He has hundreds of hives. He laughed at the 2 foot / 2 mile rule when I told him about it. He was like, "Really??? Someone told you that? I move hives around almost every week. Stop worrying. Just use a branch and you will be fine."

I listened to him, and have had zero issues when moving bees around. I'm not an expert, just sharing my personal experience. I hope it is helpful.


----------



## Lee Bussy (May 28, 2021)

While I can appreciate the branch thing because it works on a smaller scale, I think your commercial friend has “no problems” because of his scale. Losing ~10k bees in one hive is just going to bolster another hive so no big deal. If you only have one hive the difference is somewhat more pronounced.


----------



## thill (Nov 30, 2020)

That was also my worry in the beginning, as I only had 2 small hives, but the obstacle trick works without any losses, especially if you move them after dark, when all the bees are in the box. The bees reorient and go about their business. I've used this with both swarms and established hives with no issue. Reading above, I notice that several others have success with this method, too. 

GregB mentioned in another thread that it doesn't have to be a branch. You can use a piece of plywood or something else to make them reorient. The obstacle in their flyway definitely hits some sort of "reset" in their brains.

So, like Kevin told me, "Don't worry. Move them at night and put a branch in front of the hive and it will be fine."


----------



## Lee Bussy (May 28, 2021)

Oh, I was reading your post like the commercial guy didn't do anything to "clue" them into reorienting. Gotcha.


----------



## thill (Nov 30, 2020)

No, he was telling me from experience. He was a police officer who used to keep bees as a hobby, and it just kept growing. Now he is full time.


----------

