# Bees in my outside walls



## Kelly The Lionfish Hunter (Sep 10, 2014)

I have some bees in one of my outside walls of my house. I want to keep them around and collect honey from them on a regular basis.

They're not aggressive at all and don't do nay harm as far as I can tell. Damage to the house is another story but it's a rental and the owner knows about them and is willing to let them stay so here I go giving this beekeeping a try.

Any advice on maximizing honey production and care?

I have no interest in removing them from the house right now since I can't afford to build any hives or spend any money on them at all.

Thanks!


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## fieldsofnaturalhoney (Feb 29, 2012)

How do you plan to harvest honey from them without opening a wall? Or is the plan to wait then open the wall and relocate them in a hive?


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## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

Your opinion of their aggressiveness may change when you do harvest honey.


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## Kelly The Lionfish Hunter (Sep 10, 2014)

No relocation planned, fields.... 

I plan on making a small smokey fire about 4 ft under the paneling and prying the panels off gently, then removing the honeycomb and replace the paneling to allow them to make more honey where they are. I don't have the money to make, or buy, a hive, and don't know how to use one anyway, so I plan on letting them stay where they are and harvest the honey from time to time.

LMAO, at cg3! I have no doubt they will become a different animal once I disturb their hive, lol. I might let the locals do the hard part, you know, the part after building the fire, lol.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Once you opened it up to get to the combs you may as well cut all the combs out and tie the brood combs into frames and have a real hive and harvesting will be MUCH easier after that...


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## Kelly The Lionfish Hunter (Sep 10, 2014)

Michael Bush said:


> Once you opened it up to get to the combs you may as well cut all the combs out and tie the brood combs into frames and have a real hive and harvesting will be MUCH easier after that...


This is along the lines of what I want to do. Can you explain, or give links to, what the "brood" combs are and how to recognize them? I will research it now.


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

We visited your island a few months ago, one of the tour guides mentioned that there is a project ongoing to teach the locals beekeeping (in the parks?) maybe you could get some help there. He was from the mainland and mentioned how docile the bees on the island seemed compared to what he was used to.

Wish I would have know someone in need of help, I would have gladly traded some equipment and help for a quick tour and pot of iguana!


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## Kelly The Lionfish Hunter (Sep 10, 2014)

Mbeck said:


> We visited your island a few months ago, one of the tour guides mentioned that there is a project ongoing to teach the locals beekeeping (in the parks?) maybe you could get some help there. He was from the mainland and mentioned how docile the bees on the island seemed compared to what he was used to.
> 
> Wish I would have know someone in need of help, I would have gladly traded some equipment and help for a quick tour and pot of iguana!


There are a ton of collection "experts" around here, lol. If you had a name and a location of the guy, or a name of the project, on the island that would help alot. I'll do some asking around though and get involved when I find them.

Thank you for the lead, Mbeck!

Next time you come, maybe we can trade some diving and or dive classes for some equipment and knowledge?


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

Send a PM to http://www.beesource.com/forums/member.php?73438-AmericasBeekeeper. He goes to mainland Honduras every year and works with Florida state Ag dept .

Sorry I didn't get more details, something about ministry of ??? Sponsored on the ranch behind or past the mall? I had to whisper I didn't want my wife to catch me talking about beekeeping on vacation after my kids asked him how they cook the capybara looking rat they saw!!!lol


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## Kelly The Lionfish Hunter (Sep 10, 2014)

Mbeck said:


> Send a PM to http://www.beesource.com/forums/member.php?73438-AmericasBeekeeper. He goes to mainland Honduras every year and works with Florida state Ag dept .
> 
> Sorry I didn't get more details, something about ministry of ??? Sponsored on the ranch behind or past the mall? I had to whisper I didn't want my wife to catch me talking about beekeeping on vacation after my kids asked him how they cook the capybara looking rat they saw!!!lol


Hahaha! I'll find them and thanks for the link.

Those rats are called Guatusa. They are rodents for sure but they call them rabbits here and eat them all the time, like the iguana, lol. 

My old landlord brought one back and said he killed a rabbit. When I looked at it's feet and told him it was a rodent, closer to a rat than a rabbit, he gave me a confused look as if you had just been told a car was actually an Elephant, lol. You just can't trust these folks down here to know what they are saying, lol.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Kelly The Lionfish Hunter said:


> I plan on making a small smokey fire about 4 ft under the paneling and prying the panels off gently, then removing the honeycomb and replace the paneling to allow them to make more honey where they are. I don't have the money to make, or buy, a hive


 Could work.

You collect for the aquarium trade?


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## Kelly The Lionfish Hunter (Sep 10, 2014)

Oldtimer said:


> Could work.
> 
> You collect for the aquarium trade?


No sir, I kill invasive lionfish to protect the Mesoamerican coral reef and for food also. 

Here in the Atlantic, Gulf of Mexico, and the Caribbean, lionfish reproduce far, far faster than the lionfish in their home ranges of the IndoPacific and kill up to around 80-90% of all other reef supporting fish in their established territories thereby preventing the reef from being properly cleaned resulting in the ultimate death of the reef. They are a HUGE problem here and if we don't cull their numbers somehow they will destroy the entire Mesoamerican reef system over time.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Oh very interesting.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

This is brood comb (with some queen cells). Note the papery looking cappings.
http://www.bushfarms.com/images/SwarmCells.JPG

This is honey comb.
http://www.bushfarms.com/images/FoundationlessDrawn.JPG

This is honey on the left and brood on the right but open brood instead of capped.
http://www.bushfarms.com/images/TTBHComb.JPG

Note the darker comb from cocoons. The honey has waxy translucent cappings.


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## Kelly The Lionfish Hunter (Sep 10, 2014)

Michael Bush said:


> This is brood comb (with some queen cells). Note the papery looking cappings.
> http://www.bushfarms.com/images/SwarmCells.JPG
> 
> This is honey comb.
> ...


Nice pictures! Thank you! I think I should be able to tell the difference now.

I haven't been able to get into it yet because of high winds, rain, and a lack of a ladder to reach the top of the wall but tomorrow should be the day. I have a ladder, I have some help, and the morning should be at least fairly calm.

I will try and leave the brood combs intact and if that's not possible I will try and hang them back somehow.


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

Kelly The Lionfish Hunter said:


> I will try and leave the brood combs intact and if that's not possible I will try and hang them back somehow.


Chicken wire and a staple gun will help but really if your going to go through all this you might as well throw together something to put them in.
Topbars seem cheap
You can get ideas here.

http://anarchyapiaries.org/hivetools/

Be careful make something like this

http://youtu.be/WhgFCMSkN-s

Or at least smoke a cigar


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## Kelly The Lionfish Hunter (Sep 10, 2014)

Mbeck said:


> Chicken wire and a staple gun will help but really if your going to go through all this you might as well throw together something to put them in.
> Topbars seem cheap
> You can get ideas here.
> 
> ...


Thanks Mbeck! I can't "throw" anything together down here, lol. The only power tool I have is a dremel so I will leave the hive where it is. It's already built, the bees like it, and they don't cause much of a problem there.....so far, lol.

Now that smoker is a great idea for me since I don't like the whole area to be inundated with smoke with a hot fire underneath me. For now, I'll smoke a big fat one while I'm doing my thing with the bees 

So, I didn't get to the combs today since the ladder I borrowed was taller than I realized and couldn't use it where I needed to. It was nearly horizontal when I put it in place on the side of the house that has higher ground under it. Not safe at all. I was too focused on the details of the actual process and missed this.

So, instead, I made a test fire this morning and pried some of the lower nails out of the panels to test the effect of the smoke on the bees as I was prying the panels off with some decent bangs and vibrations as I was prying nails out.

The bees didn't get terribly upset and when they did get agitated, and started flying around faster in larger numbers, I sat down near the coal fire and waited for about 5 minutes and they went back to their normal speed of flying and the extra bees went back inside.

It's killing me to not have this done yet but now I have to find a shorter ladder before I can get it done safely.

I do love that website though! Thanks!


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

The honey is mostly near the top of the nest, and the brood is mostly nearer the bottom.


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## Kelly The Lionfish Hunter (Sep 10, 2014)

Oldtimer said:


> The honey is mostly near the top of the nest, and the brood is mostly nearer the bottom.


Ok, I think I'll be able to tell the difference once we get a clear look at it all.

For some really good news, I managed to pry the panel off the wall enough to see up into the wall and left it slightly ajar over night.

When I looked up into the wall yesterday I saw about 6 combs hanging in rows perpendicular to the walls themselves. I can't move any pictures from my camera to the computer because my card reader finally gave out. This salty air really does a number on electrical connections....and everything else.

Anyway, when I checked on them this morning I found a new comb, that looks about 8 inches tall (from about 8 feet under it looking up in between the panel and the frame through a 3 inch gap), that was as light yellow as a Swede's hair. It was being built on the edge of the gap I made yesterday between the panel and the stud so they're wanting to expand sideways across the stud and into the next part of the wall. It makes me want to save up the cash for the lumber to nail together a longer than normal box for them to make their combs bigger because this new area that want to expand to is not accessible due to a window.

I found a 6 ft ladder also and am just waiting on the winds to die down a little in the mornings.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Nice work. You are turning into a beekeeper already.


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## Kelly The Lionfish Hunter (Sep 10, 2014)

So I have all but two of the highest nails removed and was able to pull the bottom of the panel away from the wall a few feet and have a good look at the combs. We pulled a small part of the most recent comb down and tasted it and it was dry but another smaller piece fell out on its own and that had honey in it. The local guy says I need to wait for the right moon phase for the honey to be at full production and that we should wait for then to pull the combs.

Is there any truth to this or can any explain it better?

The good news is I didn't get stung. I did the two days prior when I wasn't even on a ladder but not today when I was on the ladder.


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

I don't think the moon has anything to do with it. If they are gathering nectar they can be more cooperative and the next "flow" might traditionaly come during some particular phase of the moon? OR "I don't want to help you anymore it's hot and this adventure is starting to look like work and work can always wait for another day! Maybe you'll stop and get off the ladder if I tell you the moon needs to be in the right phase!"


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

By local guy you mean indigenous person? If so they may hunt and harvest by the moon and that may apply to indigenous bees but not your ones that are introduced.

The indigenous people in my country ( Maori ) plant, harvest, fish, etc, by the moon and there is definitely truth to it, and I have followed this calendar myself when fishing etc with Maori friends, it works mostly. But since white people have come here using different methods and changed the landscape some of those rules do not apply any more.


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## Kelly The Lionfish Hunter (Sep 10, 2014)

LOL, no, this is something I've heard before from other people but it was this guys reason for not wanting to go through with the big task of removing this panel without dropping it or banging it around since the bottom of it is about 4 1/2 ft off the ground and has a 2 1/2 pvc pipe stubbed out of it for about 6 inches off the wall. I would post pics but my card reader quit working for me and can't upload pics right now.

It made sense to me since the piece of comb I pulled off was empty as can be. I thought maybe there was another time a few weeks away when the combs would be heavy with honey. I've left the panel loose until I get some better guidance from you guys.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

OK well a lot of places have seasons. There is a season when the bees store honey and another season when they don't get much and they have to eat what they saved up when things were good. 

So you have to figure that out, when they can spare some, and when you have to let them keep it.

You may be able to make a panel that is easy to take off, that you can take a little honey from that area but without disturbing most of the hive. Later the bees will fill it again, and you can harvest again.


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## Kelly The Lionfish Hunter (Sep 10, 2014)

Oldtimer said:


> OK well a lot of places have seasons. There is a season when the bees store honey and another season when they don't get much and they have to eat what they saved up when things were good.
> 
> So you have to figure that out, when they can spare some, and when you have to let them keep it.
> 
> You may be able to make a panel that is easy to take off, that you can take a little honey from that area but without disturbing most of the hive. Later the bees will fill it again, and you can harvest again.


That makes sense to me about the seasons for the honey production. This is the hive I want to make ( http://www.scribd.com/doc/168332145/How-to-Build-a-Simple-Top-Bar-Hive#download ) since it looks a good rookie-friendly design and I can add the viewing window pretty easy and really be able to watch the hive without disturbing it. I assume disturbing the hive when they are trying to store honey would disrupt that and make it take longer or maybe make the harvest alot smaller than it should be. I'm just going to leave the hive and build this thing and be learning about how to move the hive altogether, which will be better for the bees and the house at the same time, and give them more room to expand the hive.

My girl will plant some good flowers for honey while we're at it and get it set up a little better for honey production. Any off the cuff tropical plants known to make good honey?

How far away from the door of the house should I keep the hive? I have a really nice shady spot about 30 feet away from my back door. Otherwise I might have to build an additional freestanding shade cover over the box to keep it cool.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

That kind of hive is OK but only a small number of hives are made this way cos they don't make as much honey as a langstroth design hive. However many people who have this kind of hive really like them, if you can build one it will be a great way to start.

30 ft from your house may be OK because it sounds like your bees are not very aggressive. Only problem, sometimes at night they see the light from the house and they get confused and fly to the light and end up inside the house, they cannot see in the dark to get home again. So you should put the hive entrance on the side away from the house so they don't see the light.

If you can, before you move the bees you should try to contact another beekeeper and ask if they can show you inside their hive. You will learn so much just by seeing how a man made hive works, it will help when it is time for you to move your bees.


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## Kelly The Lionfish Hunter (Sep 10, 2014)

Oldtimer said:


> That kind of hive is OK but only a small number of hives are made this way cos they don't make as much honey as a langstroth design hive. However many people who have this kind of hive really like them, if you can build one it will be a great way to start.
> 
> 30 ft from your house may be OK because it sounds like your bees are not very aggressive. Only problem, sometimes at night they see the light from the house and they get confused and fly to the light and end up inside the house, they cannot see in the dark to get home again. So you should put the hive entrance on the side away from the house so they don't see the light.
> 
> If you can, before you move the bees you should try to contact another beekeeper and ask if they can show you inside their hive. You will learn so much just by seeing how a man made hive works, it will help when it is time for you to move your bees.


What aspects of this design make it less productive? I can build one no problem, it's just a matter of how much I'll have to fork over to use the machinery to get it done in a reasonable amount of time since I want to put this house back together for good pretty soon.

I've been looking for a guy that's supposed to have a bunch of hives on the island but isn't living here right now. My thoughts were that he might have someone tending them so we'll see what I can find.

As for the design of the box, I like the slanted walls which seem like would make it easier to remove and replace frames but I don't like how far the walls angle in. I'd like mine less angled since I think I'd be giving up a bunch of usable frame space if I were to make the bottom of the walls an inch or so closer together than the top of the walls.

I'll talk to the guy with the tools asap and then get some lumber ordered.

How do you think a small LED night light close to the entrance of the hive would work to keep the bees from going to the house or would that keep them pissed off all the time?


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

Maybe this will help?

http://www.bayislandsvoice.com/issue-v5-7.htm

Or


http://www.brionjames.net/contact

Brion James is a beekeeper!

Call these guys

http://www.hondurasnews.com/honduras-zamorano-beekeeping-promotes-practices/


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## Kelly The Lionfish Hunter (Sep 10, 2014)

Mbeck said:


> Maybe this will help?
> 
> http://www.bayislandsvoice.com/issue-v5-7.htm
> 
> ...


Nice! Thank you!


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Kelly The Lionfish Hunter said:


> How do you think a small LED night light close to the entrance of the hive would work to keep the bees from going to the house or would that keep them pissed off all the time?


No, it could lure bees away from the hive at night.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

In my opinion, it's difficult enough to do a cutout with frames to tie the combs into. It's harder with a top bar hive. You have no frame to put the comb into...


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## Kelly The Lionfish Hunter (Sep 10, 2014)

Michael Bush said:


> In my opinion, it's difficult enough to do a cutout with frames to tie the combs into. It's harder with a top bar hive. You have no frame to put the comb into...


Can you say this again in non beekeeper terms for me please and maybe give some alternatives or something? I know it's really basic for alot of people but I'm still fresh as a newborns bum with all the terminology.

Thanks!


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Frame:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/Beekeeping_langstroth_hive_frame.jpg

Top bar with bars (note there is no frame):
http://s64.photobucket.com/user/hillaryjb/media/BeeFrames.jpg.html

Combs tied into frame when doing a cutout:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-2cwiJp0kD04/UoLnyxB0mWI/AAAAAAAAA8Y/W_eaVILJvhA/s1600/20130422_113328.jpg


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## Kelly The Lionfish Hunter (Sep 10, 2014)

Michael Bush said:


> Frame:
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/Beekeeping_langstroth_hive_frame.jpg
> 
> Top bar with bars (note there is no frame):
> ...


Thank you Michael! That does the trick!


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