# Hopguard 2 did not work



## Andrew Dewey (Aug 23, 2005)

Not that it will make you feel any better but your initial count was extremely high at a time of year when mite counts are exploding. I have a hive that went from a count of 2 in mid August per 100 bees to 21.9 in September (again per 100 bees.) These hives are sometimes called dead hive walking (or flying) as they are too infested to save.

I doubt that any control mechanism properly done would have reduced the counts enough to save the hive.

The mite count I mentioned above was from one of my best producing colonies as well.

But I will try to save mine - and Hopguard II is part of my treatment regiment. I'll take another sample mid month (this hive is being sampled monthly for the Bee Informed Partnership) and I hope the hive makes it.


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## WillH (Jun 25, 2010)

Andrew, I don't think 5% infestation is extremely high. I had hives with higher infestations and make it with Apiguard and Apivar treatments. I still want to save all 3 hives. I seriously doubt the efficacy of HopGuard 2. Lots of hives were lost to Hopguard 1 and may be 2 is not any different. I have a JB200 that I never used which I am going to use to treat all 3 hives tonight. I treated 2 hives with similar infestation with left over Apivar from last year on 8/28, but I can't take counts on them until October 9th.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

WillH:
Hello WillH, clyde from Suffolk Co.
It's not to late to treat with OAV as you plan. I'd sure fit in 4 treatments spaced 5 days apart and treat again once after Thanksgiving.
The Hopguard treatment didn't hurt any but the OAV treatments will sure clear things up.
You should have good healthy bees going into winter if our fall behaves like a normal LI fall. 
Glad you caught the problem now.


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## WillH (Jun 25, 2010)

clyderoad said:


> WillH:
> Hello WillH, clyde from Suffolk Co.
> It's not to late to treat with OAV as you plan. I'd sure fit in 4 treatments spaced 5 days apart and treat again once after Thanksgiving.
> The Hopguard treatment didn't hurt any but the OAV treatments will sure clear things up.
> ...


Thank you Clyde. Yes I am glad I caught the problem. For a moment I thought that there is no need to take a mite count after treatment with Hopguard 2. I was expecting a number closer to zero. I am determined to save these hives.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

Did you treat for three weeks? New mites emerge from capped brood. That being said, i had about the same results with hopguard 1 when it came out.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Willh, it certainly appears you made every effort to maximize the effectiveness of the product. I have had some pretty extensive experience recently with Hopguard 2 as well and am trying to make sense of the results I am seeing. My take is that they do kill lots of mites, the bottom boards are littered with dead mites and strip debris. I think it's probably a mistake to assume any mite treatment in a broody, populous hive in late August is going to get you down around 1 percent despite what they might claim. You may, however, be underestimating how much of a benefit you got from them without a similar group of untreated controls. What was the condition of the strips when they were removed after 10 days? It seems that some hives attack the strips with more vigor than other hives and strip them right down to the plastic base. How did the brood look after 10 days and how did it look at the end of the second treatment? And finally, and most importantly, how does the overall health of the hive appear at the end of the treatment period?


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## WillH (Jun 25, 2010)

JRG13 said:


> Did you treat for three weeks? New mites emerge from capped brood. That being said, i had about the same results with hopguard 1 when it came out.


The strips were there more than 30 days. The recommendation is to have one batch of strips for 30 days. I had 2 batches


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## WillH (Jun 25, 2010)

jim lyon said:


> Willh, it certainly appears you made every effort to maximize the effectiveness of the product. I have had some pretty extensive experience recently with Hopguard 2 as well and am trying to make sense of the results I am seeing. My take is that they do kill lots of mites, the bottom boards are littered with dead mites and strip debris. I think it's probably a mistake to assume any mite treatment in a broody, populous hive in late August is going to get you down around 1 percent despite what they might claim. You may, however, be underestimating how much of a benefit you got from them without a similar group of untreated controls. What was the condition of the strips when they were removed after 10 days? It seems that some hives attack the strips with more vigor than other hives and strip them right down to the plastic base. How did the brood look after 10 days and how did it look at the end of the second treatment? And finally, and most importantly, how does the overall health of the hive appear at the end of the treatment period?


Jim I agree. There was some benefit. Without treatment the situation would have been a lot worse. I saw a lot of dead mites at the start of the treatment falling through the screen. After first treatment (first 10 days) when I removed the strips most of them were torn down to plastic. But it looks like during the second treatment bees were avoiding the strips, when I removed them they were in good shape. They even modified the combs to create channels to bypass strips. The hive is in good health. Many combs with sealed brood with good pattern as I expect from them around this time of the year. No DWV. I saw the queen. Do you think it is acceptable to have mite levels around 10% immediately after a treatment? I am treating 2 hives with Apivar and will be testing them in a few days, they had similar counts and and treated around the same time. But they were not as populous as this one.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

No, I sure wouldn't want them to be 10%, though your results (23) aren't quite that high. I am seeing lots of hives after having 2 strips in for 3 weeks at around 4 to 5%. They are brooding quite vigorously (unusual for sure) and do generally have a pretty good look to them, though. I have heard that this burst of rebuilding activity is pretty common after a Hopguard treatment. I will probably be giving everything an OA trickle in the coming weeks and calling it good enough.....but that's just me, certainly an Apivar regimen would, most likely be an effective choice as well. Best of luck


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Half cup of bees is 250 - 300 individuals? Does not look like you got good control. Did you sample from open frames of brood both times? I have no experience with the product but you may have saved the hive. As pointed out mite numbers are exploding in September. I for sure would not want mites in the 8-10% range before winter. There may already have been virus transfer because of the high mite load. Either way if they were my bees I would treat again make sure they are fed enough and hope for the best.

Jean-Marc


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## WillH (Jun 25, 2010)

Yes I sampled from brood nest both times, very similar frames with capped and uncapped brood. I agree 8% is not acceptable. Hive looks healthy with good stores but don't know if there are any viral infections. I would think the chances are 50-50 it will make it. I treated with oxalic acid vapor yesterday and today I counted 350 mites on sticky board. I am going repeat the oxalic vapor treatment every 5 days until I see no more mites. Last year I treated a strong Italian hive with Apiguard but did not do follow-up mite counts. The hive vanished on Dec 20th most likely due to mites. This year I am testing all the hives whether they were treated or not until Nov.


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