# Plantings for deer and bees?



## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

One of the farmers I keep bees with said that he was considering planting some clover to help keep the deer off his other crops. He seems willing to plant something that would help my bees too. I guess the requirements are that it would be roughly the same cost as planting clover and that it would not need annual replanting. We're talking about an area that is about 5 acres. 

What are some other options? Of course clover seems like a good way to go, but I wanted to hear from beekeeping/wildlife experts as to some other possibilities.

Thanks.


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## John Gesner (Dec 17, 2005)

If he wants to plant clover to help you and your bees, that's great. But planting clover to "lure" deer away from his crops is going to backfire on him. Tell him to contact the local archery club and look for hunters to help him out with the deer problem.


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## naturebee (Dec 25, 2004)

I agree with John. 
However, planting a fall food plot is extremely effective in attracting the deer with consistency to a specific area where archers will be very eager to set up a hunt. 

Check out this site for wildlife forge plants.

I get my seed here, and bees hit the crimson clover heavy.
http://www.spandles.com/spandleshome/fallwinterseed.html

Joe Waggle ~ Derry, PA ‘Bees Gone Wild Apiaries' 
FeralBeeProject.com 
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/H...neybeeArticles


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

Thanks guys.

I wasn't sure that his plan would produce the expected results, perhaps he has other things in mind too. I do know that deer damage to his crops is a very BIG problem. It could be that he's desparate for solutions. I'll suggest the archery club idea. Hopefully, he will still want to plant some clover


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## Troy (Feb 9, 2006)

I don't have deer in my area, but I have often wondered if there is anything I can plant that will help my bees.

I know this subject has been bandied about many many times, but I've never seen a discussion of the planting method. The area near me is loose forest land. It is on the low side though it rarely gets swampy wet.

Most all of the discussions I have read here talk about tilling the soil. That is not possible for me. I need something I can throw around and have it grow on it's own.

I am in Central Florida, so at this time of year it rains most every day so it would get water pretty regularly.

I have seen a number of small flowers that grow on the forest floor that bees like, but I don't know what they are.

Is there a web page where I can go look at different plants and the recommended method of sowing the seeds? Any pointers would be appreciated, but please don't suggest anything that requires tilling of the soil.


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## TX Ashurst (May 31, 2005)

Well, a lot of beeks "plant" sweet clovers by throwing handsful in likely places. No tilling involved (and sometimes no permission either.) We beeks are often accused of spreading it for our bees on our neighbors' property. Personally, I have permission to plant it in a severe erosion location, and the loc. is big enough to take all I can afford (with my wife's permission). 

Upside, the bees love it and make terrific honey from it. If you plant both yellow and white you get a fairly long flow.
Downside, it is very prolific, spreads like a weed, IS a weed, and loves to take over roadsides and ditchbanks.
AND you have to plant it for 2 years in a row because it has a 2-year life-cycle. You won't get a flow until the second year, when you're planting your second round. First year it's small and hard to find. Second year it's head-high and hard to avoid.

Or you can plant any of several trees that produce even more nectar than clover. It seems like the very best ones are all weed trees. Bee Bee trees, Chinese tallow trees, mesquite, etc. 

Another alternative for 2 to 10 hives is to keep them within range of an urban area with many gardeners. My home hive (in the city) is the best one I've got.


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## FordGuy (Jul 10, 2005)

John Gesner said:


> If he wants to plant clover to help you and your bees, that's great. But planting clover to "lure" deer away from his crops is going to backfire on him. Tell him to contact the local archery club and look for hunters to help him out with the deer problem.


I actually planted several acres of crimson clover to lure deer out of an adjacent apple orchard. It mostly worked. But for a perrennial, I'd go with white dutch clover.


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

I have been accused of spreading dandylion onto my neighbors property.....looks good too


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## Luke (Sep 8, 2003)

I would love it if some purple loosestrife found its way to my area. I planted some clover in front of my hives this year and some wildflower seeds in the clearing I made. A couple of woodchucks moved in under my shed and went to work on it. The wildflowers are all gone but the clover is recovering. I was able to convince the woodchucks to move along.


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## Troy (Feb 9, 2006)

OK, so we have a vote for clover. I thought clover required full sun, but in the dappled sun and shade of the forest it might do OK in the more open areas. What varieties will be best in my dappled forest area. Sweet clover, yellow clover, probably not white dutch clover?

I saw some small light purple flowers earlier this spring that the bees seemed to like pretty well. I wish I had taken a picture, but they are all gone now.


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## dcross (Jan 20, 2003)

Troy said:


> I am in Central Florida, so at this time of year it rains most every day so it would get water pretty regularly.



http://plants.ifas.ufl.edu/melainv.html


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## samiyam318 (Jan 18, 2006)

Luke said:


> I would love it if some purple loosestrife found its way to my area.


From http://www.seagrant.umn.edu/ais/purpleloosestrife_info:

"Purple loosestrife is a very hardy perennial which can rapidly degrade wetlands, diminishing their value for wildlife habitat. Wetlands are the most biologically diverse, productive component of our ecosystem. Hundreds of species of plants, birds, mammals, reptiles, insects, fish and amphibians rely on healthy wetland habitat for their survival.

"However, when purple loosestrife gets a foothold, the habitat where fish and wildlife feed, seek shelter, reproduce and rear young, quickly becomes choked under a sea of purple flowers. Areas where wild rice grows and is harvested, and where fish spawn, are degraded. An estimated 190,000 hectares of wetlands, marshes, pastures and riparian meadows are affected in North America each year, with an economic impact of millions of dollars.

"Purple loosestrife also invades drier sites. Concern is increasing as the plant becomes more common on agricultural land, encroaching on farmers’ crops and pasture land."

Not to worry. According to this site http://plants.usda.gov/java/county?state_name=Maine&statefips=23&symbol=LYSA2 you already have it in your county.


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## andy12 (Sep 7, 2005)

*the big picture.... the long run ..my random thoughts*

I have mixed feelings on this topic.
Honeybees are not native to this continent, they evolved over time in a symbiotic relationship with the flora indigenous to their original area which i believe is Europe and/or Africa
The native plants here in the good ole USA evolved having a relationship with local pollinators.Consequently my honey bees and the local native plants are in many cases not compatible for pollination sake.
There is a strong movement in naturalist and environmentalist circles to promote a reintroduction of native plants. which were erradicated and supplanted from most of their range along with the Native American peoples by European immigrants who plowed the prairies under, grazed and overgrazed domestic cattle and introduced exotic species brought from Europe like Fescue, sweet clovers, dutch clover, sericea lespadeza among many others.
In many cases these exotics will crowd out native plants and so the chain reaction and the web of life is upset. habitat is destryed..the food chain is altered and species disappear.
I suppose that the kept and the ferral honeybee colonies did much to pollinate and thus encourage the spread of some of these aggressive exotic species.
The scientific evidence indicates that ecosystems evolve over thousands and millions of years. The natural balance is a result of this evolutionary process.
An arguement can be made that by introducing exotic species of plants and animals into an ecosystem, that the balance can be upset and the natural systems that evolved to sustain life here can be upset and put out of balance, ultimately leading to a decline in the natural order and so, the natural world that sustains us all.
I keep bees and also have a native plant nursery. Both of these are things that I feel are good and wholesome and give meaning to my world.
My hope is that we keep observing our world identify the consequences of mans impact on and be aware of the ripple effect of things that impact it so that we can find a sustainable balance.
"we do not inherit this world from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.
thats all i got for now...peace..


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## FordGuy (Jul 10, 2005)

dcross said:


> http://plants.ifas.ufl.edu/melainv.html


the key question is one of mowing: will the field be mowed regurlarly or let to grow 4 feet high? sweet yellow can recover if mowed, but does best if left to grow. white dutch can survive in mottled sun, remember it grows along with ky 31 which gets very tall and shades it out. You can mow white dutch reguarly and it will still produce heads. sweet yellow takes time to recover.


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## Troy (Feb 9, 2006)

Well, the forest has never been mowed and so I think we should keep it that way. 

So I have votes for yellow and white clover.

Are there other suggestions?


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## FordGuy (Jul 10, 2005)

Troy said:


> Well, the forest has never been mowed and so I think we should keep it that way.
> 
> So I have votes for yellow and white clover.
> 
> Are there other suggestions?


yes, I am a big fan of buckwheat, but it only comes back if it reseeds itself. Same for crimson clover. To experiment, you could try small plots of each to see what helpedyou.


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## Troy (Feb 9, 2006)

Andy12

I like the idea you put forth about trying to stay with native plants, but that is just making my hard problem harder.

So I will ask you for your help in trying to do this. I will try to use native plants if you’ll help me to find the native plants that will produce nectar for my bees. Preferably a string of native plants that will provide nectar in late July and August and early Sept. when we are in a dearth down here in Florida.

Our top native plant is just coming to the end of it’ss nectar flow now. The Florida state tree the sable Palm produces some fine honey, and it blooms from Mid June thru July.

Our other major nectar flow is orange blossom and that is a cultivated plant, hardly a native. It is so common though we might as well call it native.


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## Troy (Feb 9, 2006)

dcross,

Are you suggesting I plant Melaleuca? That page leads to info on the tree. The Melaleuca is considered an invasive plant here and though there are few in Orlando, it has not spread too bad here yet. South and West Florida are choked out with it.

I don't know if I'd want to deliberatly plant an invasive species like that. I suppose if it were already there or nearby, then I am not really introducing it am I?

Does anyone have any Melaleuca honey I could buy to have a taste test?


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## Yuleluder (Mar 2, 2005)

Troy,

I don't know much about the native plants and trees in FL, but I would have to believe some native species of Aster and Golden Rod grow in FL. These are both great honey producing plants. Black Locust and Tulip poplars are great native honey producing trees around here. If I were you, start walking around the woods and fields around your area, identify and become familar with those species. Then you will have a good idea of what type of native plants and trees to get.


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## JP (Jul 10, 2005)

*What to plant, my 2 cents*

I will be planting yellow clover on my pipelines. I had some honey from some Amish in South Dakota, it was exceptional! They told me main source, yellow clover. I am stoked.


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