# Is winter considered a brood break?



## honeydrunkapiaries (Oct 16, 2013)

A'sPOPPY said:


> As the title asks, do bees benefit during the winter broodless period in overcoming mite loads in a treatment free plan?


Kinda but not really. The bees wont produce a great deal of brood so the mite populations "shouldnt" significantly rise. However, the effects of the mites will be felt greatly on the winter bees simply because the mites have longer to feed off them (4 months). If you're thinking they die off, the mites also have a longer lifespan in winter. Come spring depending on the health/populations of bees vs. varroa, the mites will typically have the higher ground (if you have any bees left). Conversely, in brood rearing months you will have more bees with shorter lifespans, more active and capable to groom, but the mite populations will also be higher. Its a constant battle. Thats how it was explained to me anyway. If you want a great understanding of how the population dynamics work check out http://scientificbeekeeping.com as Randy Oliver has done alot of work in that area.


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

Yes, broodless periods are a big help in a treatment free plan.
MDAsplitter.com


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## honeydrunkapiaries (Oct 16, 2013)

Brood breaks yeah, but as it relates to the natural brood break in winter? Seems to me alot of winter die off has to do with the varroas long term stay with the bees.


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

I think I understand your point. I wouldn't consider that winter's broodless period by itself will knock down Varroa. It needs to be combined with something else, in MDAsplitter's case that something else is the broodless period in which a queencell matures, emerges, and does the deed.


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## honeydrunkapiaries (Oct 16, 2013)

Adrian Quiney WI said:


> I think I understand your point. I wouldn't consider that winter's broodless period by itself will knock down Varroa. It needs to be combined with something else, in MDAsplitter's case that something else is the broodless period in which a queencell matures, emerges, and does the deed.


I find here anyway, most first year beekeepers wont experience Varroa problems (I didnt). The reason for that is that most start from nucs, and they begin with a low varroa population. Probably be better with packages (we dont have them here). If you read varroa population dynamics you will see http://scientificbeekeeping.com/ipm-3-strategy-understanding-varroa-population-dynamics/ that indeed the mite levels will decrease in winter with the broodless period, however come their second spring the mite population will be much higher and later that fall will no doubt rear its ugly head. 

If you look here http://scientificbeekeeping.com/sick-bees-part-12-varroa-management-getting-down-to-brass-tacks/ you will find that swarming actually increased mite loads in the parent colony, because you lost your adult bee population but the mites on the nurse bees and in the brood remained actually increasing their mite load per bee. Splitting helped. This explains why Soloman Parkers "expansion" idea works, you essentially outrun the mites. If you want to have large production colonies for honey, chances are they will run into a mite problem; If you simply want to sell nucs well you're already essentially doing a mite control by doing these brood breaks. 

I plan on using brood breaks/splits/nucs as a form of mite control next season but I am also trying to expand. Using winter as a "brood break" though could be a dangerous idea. My question would be what/when would be the best time for a brood break for a honey production colony?


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

At 40 Degrees I think it is a brood break.


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## honeydrunkapiaries (Oct 16, 2013)

EastSideBuzz said:


> At 40 Degrees I think it is a brood break.


You got it easy its -8F here! 

It is a brood break, but it dosent work the same as a brood break it works during the season. Per 100 or so bees you actually have MORE mites.


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## Kamon A. Reynolds (Apr 15, 2012)

Winter is a brood break. IT also is a time you need bees that are young, populous, and not stressed out by mites or disease. Varroa spreads disease and stresses to a unhealthy level.

Mites if not controlled thru IPM's (like brood breaks / drone removal), chemical treatment, or very resistant bees (with some brood breaks) it will be too late by winter and your bees will be weak and........

1. Die or

2. Come out of winter to weak to make a crop....and most likely die.

Yes they benefit a little but not much due to them not raising bees either.


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## Solomon Parker (Dec 21, 2002)

Kamon Reynolds said:


> Mites if not controlled thru IPM's (like brood breaks / drone removal), chemical treatment, or very resistant bees (with some brood breaks) it will be too late by winter and your bees will be weak and........


Brood breaks are not necessary with very resistant bees. If they need brood breaks, they aren't very resistant bees.


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## sjj (Jan 2, 2007)

honeydrunkapiaries said:


> You got it easy its -8F here!
> 
> It is a brood break, but it dosent work the same as a brood break it works during the season. Per 100 or so bees you actually have MORE mites.


Contrary to expectations and the temperature of -8°F, I predict, there will be a brood patch at the heat center of the bee cluster. The test will be not easy. Go, tear them apart and see.


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## VitaminBee (Aug 17, 2013)

sjj said:


> Contrary to expectations and the temperature of -8°F, I predict, there will be a brood patch at the heat center of the bee cluster. The test will be not easy. Go, tear them apart and see.


Tear them apart at -8???!


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

To post #6, winter is an enforced brood break. There is no way around it here in the northern US. 

When is the best time for a brood break in a honey production colony? I would say that if you are prepared to forgo the fall honey I would do it just after the main flow. I am contemplating seeing what would happen by cutting off honey production on August 1st and inducing a brood break or making more splits. A compromise between honey production and bee production. If you are able to cut drone comb all summer, lifting off all those boxes is good exercise. The mite load will be lower than if you hadn't and the bees will be better off going into the fall and winter. 

If I were in the south I might very well be pinning my hopes on resistant bees, but that is not the route I am taking.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>When is the best time for a brood break in a honey production colony?

Two weeks before the main flow will have the most positive effect on the honey crop and the least detriment to the colony and is a fine time for them to rear a new queen.


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## Solomon Parker (Dec 21, 2002)

Wow, all this talk of brood breaks makes me feel exhausted. So much work.


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