# AFB Questions



## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*If the AFB is on plastic frames, can you caul out the wax and boil the frames?*

You might consider a 10.0% bleach solution vs the boiling.
That is 9 parts water to 1 part bleach by volume.
regards,
Ernie Lucas Apiaries


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

I have yet to have the pleasure of that experience. I figure that will happen in short order though with the increase in hives.
Having said that, i will use my cattle experience to draw on.

AFB is contagious. Bees travel on more than one frame in a hive. That means that they spread it. so it depends on what you want to do...control it or eradicate it.

option 1. Natural way is burning, If it were me, Iwould probably burn the whole hive, eradicate the disease. Now if the whole yard is infected, well that might change my prospective a bit.

option 2 burn only the infected frames but the hive would be moved away from the rest of the hives...minimum what 5 miles as the crow files to quarantene untill under control

option 3. This was told to me by a beek that had been in the business for several years. He destroyed all the frames, scortched all the inside of the boxes. But the bees he would dump them on newspaper and let them walk in a clean hive. He would not feed them for 24 hours so they use up all the stores in their gut. He would not shake them hard on to the paper because he wanted as little debris as possible, and that was the reason why they walked on the paper, to drop the debris that was on the bees. 
He would then burn the newspaper.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

AFB control is a four letter word.

BURN.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Control is about finding and diagnosing the cause. Why burn anything until you know reinfection is not likely. Burning a hive and repeating it gain is not a good thing.

Cleaning up the outbreak would be anything from a two cycle treatment of terramyacin (Gasp.....lets get real, its not the worst thing to put in your hive) burning the bad frames, burning a complete hive, shaking bees and scorching woodenware, perhaps looking at your own equipment handling management, etc.

In nature, bees would succumb to such things, and mother nature allows those coping with the disease to survive. Whether your treating, or shaking bees, or anything else, what your doing is perpetuating afb to some extent. In nature, a hive would succumb to afb, the comb would be destroyed by wax moths, and if the cavity would be used again, new comb would be drawn. But certainly beyond comb (as when beekeepers shake bees) there is a changeover from a genetic standpoint to strains that perhaps have a better chance of dealing with afb.

Nobody ever mentions changing the queen and genetics. Maybe they don't know about such people who have bred for afb resistant bees in the past such as C. Mraz. Or how the Minnesota hygienic line came about. Weak hygienic behavior and non-resistant bees to afb are a huge factors in outbreaks of afb. That's not to say with such bees, you can carelessly expose them to afb through pure ignorance. But weak genetics allows it to outbreak where stronger genetics keeps it in check, many times never allowing it to outbreak at all.

Personally, I have only dealt with afb in helping others. But with a two cycle treatment of terramyacin, removing the obvious bad comb, and changing to a better hygienic strain of bee, I now know of two beekeepers who have not had any other issues with afb in the past 4 years.

I often wonder about those that ONLY say to "burn" when afb is seen (This is not a reference to MP comment above). Do they really rotate comb for hive health, believe in the hygienic traits, and practice good management of their bee-yards? I don't know. But I think afb control is a bit of many things, both in prevention, and bettering your bees when you see it.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Michael Palmer said:


> AFB control is a four letter word.
> 
> BURN.


Well MP, I second that. 

Not that I like burning, but it is the fast & cheap way of controlling the spread. This is more of a time saving method. 

PS... MP, four letter word.... "work" comes to mind.


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## dickm (May 19, 2002)

I know of a researcher that is finding subclinical AFB in 70% of the hives examined. You get more when I get more.

dickm


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

I have found some AFB in a couple of my hives. I plan to burn the frames and torch the inside of the hive. I went through a lot of my frames in the garage today. I plan dust each hive with terra and powdered sugar.


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

before you terrimyacin your hives, how close are you to the honey flow? You need a withdrawl of 3 week, 4 weeks is better *before* the honey flow starts. Otherwise you will have drug contamination in your honey....not a good thing
If you do use the drug, you need to ensure none of the honey they produce enters the human food chain
And lastly, the bees move honey around. So if you think oh the terrimyacin is in the brood chamber and will not make it to the honey super, you have no guarantee that the bees have not moved honey up to make room for the queen to lay her eggs.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Chef Isaac said:


> I have found some AFB in a couple of my hives. I plan to burn the frames and torch the inside of the hive. I went through a lot of my frames in the garage today. I plan dust each hive with terra and powdered sugar.


Did you find any scale in the stored combs? Did the AFB spread beyond your nucs? At this point, you want to be sure it doesn't get into your extracting supers. Make sure there isn't AFB present in your production colonies when you take off the honey. Once it's in your supers, it's soon in the whole operation.

Also...any idea where it came from? Do you have used equipment you bought that is in service? If you can't explain the infection through bought used equipment, it is likely in the neighborhood. The inspector...does Washington have an inspection service...might be able to help you track it down.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

dickm said:


> I know of a researcher that is finding subclinical AFB in 70% of the hives examined. You get more when I get more.
> 
> dickm


Can you explain what subclinical is? Thank you.


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

I did buy some used equipment, some nuc boxes last year. I bought some hives from another guy a while back and the comb and boxes are still used.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Prevention is a good way to go. Know the disease and check every comb you bring into your operation.

I went to see some nucs that I had sold to a "new" beekeeper. The nucs were okay, but I noticed one of the combs that he had put into his full sized hive had scale present. The comb was old and dry. So we looked at the rest of his stored equipment and he ended up w/ quite a pile to burn.

Knowledge and experience is key in the management of AFB.


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## dickm (May 19, 2002)

Subclinical means without the obvious signs as ropy dead brood, ragged cappings etc. It means the latent infection is in the hive but not evident to anything one can see. But you knew this Bjorn.

dickm


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

dickm said:


> Subclinical means without the obvious signs as ropy dead brood, ragged cappings etc. It means the latent infection is in the hive but not evident to anything one can see. But you knew this Bjorn.
> 
> dickm


I wasn't sure if this was a spore count, or by means of being able to foster an outbreak in lab conditions. But 70% does not surprise me.

I have been very interested in afb from a genetic viewpoint. I had found afb in an apiary a few years back. I made a promise to help clean it up, and said I would be back to treat. Due to my schedule and some problems, i didn't make it back and over four weeks passed. When I went back, I could not find one trace of the afb. And the one hive in particular that had ropiness test confirmed (and Holt's milk test as positive) was as clean as could be.

I have often wondered if through a sudden weakening of the hive (pesticide, excessive swarming, etc.) or a situation where brood is allowed to rot unchecked (chilled brood, PMS, etc.) that afb would outbreak. But if the hive built back up or had the right genetics, would that reverse itself to the point that afb would not be seen? I don't know. I do know that the hive I monitored with the afb that cleared, did not have anything like brood or bees added. And no treatments were used prior to me visiting the hives over four weeks later.

That has been four ago. And I have seen this same type thing this year also. AFB in mid April, and as the bees build up through late May, nothing could be found. The bees overcame it and as with the other hive from a few years back, they will be isolated and monitored, to see what comes about.

Makes me wonder the connection to things like stress, genetics, and other factors. I think its more than just having it or not having it.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

I threw a five or more year old frozen terramycin patty in an AFB hive last fall and this year it is a booming honey producer.


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## dcross (Jan 20, 2003)

Chef Isaac said:


> I have found some AFB in a couple of my hives. I plan to burn the frames and torch the inside of the hive. I went through a lot of my frames in the garage today. I plan dust each hive with terra and powdered sugar.


If you're not certain it's AFB, send a sample in, they might even be able to plate it and let you know if it's resistant to terra.


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

What is the average turn around time on sending samples in?


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

*subclinical infection*

Yes the spores are everywhere that bees live, pretty much. It is only when the spore count is high enough that larvae begin to break down. The spores reproduce by I think millions while the larvae is rotting. That is why scale is virulent and a prime source for further infection. A strong colony with only a few cells of gravy can often ( while protected by meds ) clean them out and not suffer reinfection: the spore count is not high enough. My own bees will show about 1-1.5 % annually and to me it's not a great enough loss to justify jeapordizing the others by trying to cure it. I just pick em up and burn at the shop, like Keith Jarrett says it's an easy way to dispose of them.


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## Aspera (Aug 1, 2005)

*Detection Methods*

What are the most sensitive techniques for detecting subclinical AFB? What are the accepted criteria for burning equipment. Namely, does one burn subclinical hives, those with less virulent strains and hygienic hives like the one described by Bjorn? Aside from not buying used and not sharing extractors, what do you agent types recommend for prevention?

Thanks in advance.

P.S. If anyone has an outbreak this summer, I would be interested to see it.


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

*afb*

Wait a second let me take that back- about a half percent.

Tylan is the most commonly used ab around here


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## dcross (Jan 20, 2003)

Chef Isaac said:


> What is the average turn around time on sending samples in?



One to two weeks from when I send it out.


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