# USDA releases CCD "Action Plan"



## Barry Digman

I have not digested this, but here it is...

http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/2007/070713.htm


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## Soocom1

For those who did not read the entire paper, I found several items of particular interest, and attention. Read the excerpts below. 

Plan: Research teams that include university researchers, the Federal
Government (ARS, DoD), and private industry will use new strategies for
detecting bee gene expression and for detecting and identifying pathogens
of bees to determine the cause(s) of CCD.

The underlined part is what caught my attention. 
Why is the Fed. Gov. involving the Dept. of DEFENCE???

The poss. Explanation here is that the government is going to involve USAMRIID
The Army’s USAMRIID is very good at isolating such pathogens. 
A good example is Hantavirus. 

This indicates to me that either something in the higher echelons has caused a panic in the government, or that someone is looking at this as a possible excuse for government control. 

Objective 4: Test effects of supplemental protein and carbohydrate [e.g.,
high fructose corn syrup (HFCS)] feedings on bee health.
Priority: Very High; Duration: Medium
Plan: Reports in the 1970s indicated that HFCS contains low levels of
poisonous hydroxy-methyl-furfural (HMF). Using both cage and field
studies, the effects of sugar-substitute HFCS and protein-substitute
supplements on bee health will be explored. Nutrient content will be
analyzed and the metabolism of bees will be monitored. Additional testing
could involve examination of GMO corn products (HFCS) to determine
their potential impact on bee health when incorporated into HFCS.

I know this will start a fight. 
The use of HFCS is a huge issue in the world of Apiaries. This I think along with the neonicotinoids may be the keys here. 

Objective 1: Test effects (lethal and sub-lethal) of neonicotinoids and other
pesticides used for crop protection.
Priority: Very High; Duration: Medium
Plan: WG Teams will conduct laboratory and field experiments to
examine the level of pesticide exposure that bees may be receiving while
working crops treated with insecticides. Incoming nectar and pollen loads
from worker bees on specific crops will be analyzed for pesticides. Cage
studies may be used to simulate “worst case” scenarios where bees are
confined to a single diet.
Researchers will test the effects of lethal and sub-lethal doses of
insecticides on the development of honey bee brood, in vivo and in vitro,
and on the longevity of adult bees. Specifically, scientists will be testing
the life span, learning ability, and orientation of reared bees, particularly
as this relates to CCD.
Additionally, laboratory, greenhouse, field-cage, and open-field
experiments will be conducted to examine the effects of pesticide exposure
on honey bees and non-Apis bees that forage on single and/or various
crops treated with pesticides (e.g., insecticides, miticides, and fungicides).
Nectar and pollen from honey bee and bumble bee foragers and from
pollen-nectar provisions from solitary bee nests will be analyzed for
pesticide contamination. The lethal effects of direct pesticide exposure of
adult bees and brood will be determined by bee mortality, while sub-lethal
effects will be determined through evaluation of adult foraging and
orientation behaviors as well as reproductive success. The study of non-
Apis bees addresses whether other bees serving as pollinators are
susceptible to the same lethal/sublethal factors as honey bees and whether
solitary bees can be reliable, readily accessible, surrogate species for
evaluating pesticidal impacts on bees.

If what I read in this action plan is accurate, then its telling me that the government is scared, and that indeed something very real is happening. 
If so, we will need to look for several things. 

1: All information coming out needs to be catalogues and archived. 

2: Signs that the Feds are going to try and take some kind of action to either take over apiaries, or somehow regulate the practice of bee keeping. In relation to other industries, apiaries are somewhat lax in regulations, and this gives the government an opportunity to try some kind of further regulatory power. Word to the wise: 
Keep a pulse on congress and start writing your Senators and Reps to get a feel as to what they want to do. 

3: A network on such a site as this should be devoted STRICKLY to CCD and the eventual outcome. This would be an open forum, and one that everyone can and should read.


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## dickm

This is the way the DoD is involved. They have been funding Jerry Bromenschenk for years in various projects that involve using odor to find explosives etc. He's a bee scientist from the U of Montana and has used bees in a unique way ie. finding land mines. The DoD allowed him the freedom to jump in on the initial research with his specialized equipment.

The other plans mentioned have all been thought of and examined.

dickm


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## JohnK and Sheri

>>>the Feds are going to try ......to.. take over apiaries<<<
The picture this brought to mind had me laughing so hard I was afraid I woke John up.
Someone should make a movie.
Sheri


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## nursebee

Too many variables to control in an insect that flies for miles. I did not see any beekeepers on the participant list. If CCD colonies remain unaffected by wax moth and SHB for a period of time you could also study them, but if the hives later get robbed out by bees, SHB, and WM, then gathering more facts now would be difficult. 

Maybe just put some cameras in Daves hives? 

I aint got no problem. But I am a bit of a pessimist on this.


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## danno1800

*Dr. Nancy Ostiguy told us at HAS that researchers have discovered a virus...*

She couldn't tell us more because the paper is being peer reviewed for publication. But it was the one constant against all the variables they found in CCD hives.
She felt the paper would be published in the next few months. Stay tuned!!!


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## Cyndi

JohnK and Sheri said:


> >>>the Feds are going to try ......to.. take over apiaries<<<
> The picture this brought to mind had me laughing so hard I was afraid I woke John up.
> Someone should make a movie.
> Sheri


Oh yea, this is definitely an X-File,


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## Barry Digman

Well, I've trudged through the action plan a couple of times. I'm not one to put much, if any, faith in the feds to put together a plan and see it through in a timely and efficient manner. 
However, this action plan seems to be a pretty good plan for both short-term and long-term bee research. They've covered a wide variety of areas that they say they're going to investigate, and it seems like they've pulled in the big guns to participate. I look forward to the work they're proposing.
I do have three reservations...

1.) I don't trust the investigation of insecticide, pesticide, miticide, etc. poisoning to be free of influences from the manufacturers of those products. I hope that the researchers can operate in an environment that is free from the pressures and politics that are so often associated with issues involving big money. My cynicism tells me that mid way through a controlled study that is leading the researchers to indict one or more chemical compounds traced to a brand-name product, they're going to get a call from a supervisior or director telling them that the study has been defunded and all work is to cease immediatly. And please deliver all files and documents to my office by the end of the day, no copies allowed.

2.) The dollar amounts of funding are ridiculously low. My little homey town steals more than this each year from taxpayers to buy baseballs for our big amateur tournaments.



> In fiscal year (FY) 2007, ARS had a honey bee research budget of $7.4 million, the focus of research being on controlling the varroa mite pest and microbial pathogens and on improving honey bee nutrition. Between FY 2000 and FY 2006, the Cooperative State Research, Education, and Extension Service (CSREES) spent an average of $1.7 million per year on honey bee and pollinator research; roughly one third to one half of this funding was spent on research on honey bee health. Additional funds are now being redirected by ARS’ Areawide Integrated Pest Management program to conduct a full-scale areawide project on honey bee health in the amount of $1 million per year for the next 5 years. Meanwhile, CSREES has tapped $117,000 in unexpended funds from the Critical and Emerging Issues Program to provide seed grants for CCD.


3.) Alternative management practices, specifically small cell, didn't even get a first glance, let alone a second glance, or did I miss their mention somewhere? Are the researchers unaware of them, or are they aware and simply dismissed them out of hand? Even the cell phone/magnetic field shift idea was mentioned.


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## BjornBee

Who's laughing? I have come to the realization that many believe many different things. Just on this site, and it was no joke, serious discussions about......

Bush did not want to just listen to phone calls of known terrorists, but was going to listen to each and every one of all phone calls. All 45 billion per year, or whatever the number is.

There was talk of "Will Bush step down after his term is up?" Comments that he would take over the county and make himself king!

The mass media is constantly filled with agenda driven propoganda. Blacks think the white man is doing this, democrates accuse the republicans, the religious is going to do that....on and on, people soak all this up.

So all of a sudden someone suggests that perhaps the goverment is going to take over the apiaries, and its a laugher??? I agree that the choice of words could mean, what?...something like armed guards at the entrance to apairies? No, I don't think so. Perhaps taking over apiaries could mean mass registration, formal licensing, fees, continueing education, and so on.

Many professions are licensed and controlled in such a way. Whether it be auctioneers, barber shops, etc. Much of the agriculture community is licensed and regulated with classroom credits, certification, and the like.

I find it laughable, that so many absurd comments are made in so many areas....and yet, goverment control of just one more item such as "beekeeping" is considered laughable.

If you think ssocom1 comments are not feasible, then state so, and explain why. But to somehow suggest his comments are laughable on the surface is downright cruel, unjustified, and really low.

I have a goverment that wants to take away my right to bear arms. They are talking about suppressing open air waves with "fair" doctrine laws. They want to tell me how to raise my kids. My governor in Pa. wants to make sending children to preschool at age three mandatory. I can't do many things, and for many other things, a license, a permit, a tax, or some other restrictive guideline is required.

Could a central agency be one day in place to regulate beekeeping? I don't think its laughable. I think it could happen.

The bee industry as it exists today is not for the hobbiest. Its not for the honey industry. They could not care if Joe Blow has a few hives in this township or not. And it does not care about how much honey you produce. They could just increase the already 60% of imported honey.

What the industry and goverment cares about, and where the decision and money matter, is the protection of the food industry. And I don't think it would be laughable to suggest that in protecting this national security issue (food), that goverment control would be something to suggest as impossible.


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## JohnK and Sheri

Gosh, Mike, did you forget to take your meds this morning? 
Just kidding!
I know it is a serious situation but the image of Dan Akroid and John Belushi trying to run a beeyard just cracked me up.
Laughter is good for a person, you should try it some time.
Sheri


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## BjornBee

I laugh all the time. You just need to read this site often enough..... 

Sherri, I know you have been one of the nicer, more level headed members of beesource. I mean no personal attack.

I am serious about CCD. I have commented on the impact of CCD in regards to growers on another recent thread. Of course, I feel those commented are just glossed over by people who have suggested that growers have no options other than honeybees.


Soocom1 comments touches upon something we should all think about. When an industry can not fend for itself, when an industry needs goverment intervention, funding, and guideance...when an industry seeks congressional meetings and brings such a matter as the industries vulnerability(lack of) to providing pollination to the food industry....sometimes those headlines, those funds being sought, and those scare tactics being employed...all come with a cost.

I don't want to be a negative doom and gloomer. I just want to make people aware of the impact of growers with the mountain of articles calling for a collapse of the bee industry. And the impact when you beg for federal funding and pose the scenario to goverment, that the industry needs funding. Funding usually is attached to regulations, restrictions, and goverment oversight. SOOcom1 comments should be worth at least considering as a real possibility. Other industries have gone down this same path.


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## Barry Digman

"And the impact when you beg for federal funding and pose the scenario to goverment, that the industry needs funding. Funding usually is attached to regulations, restrictions, and goverment oversight."

Your point is valid. There will always be those in the federal government who are convinced that they are the best stewards of your money and your property. It would behoove those of us in the beekeeping arena to keep them at arms length while at the same time encouraging the research. It would be nice if the researchers could simply do their work and make it available WITHOUT unnecessary interference from politicians who will take the opportunity to "do something" about CCD and bee health in general. I think we have the opportunity for a straight forward investigation without undue complications if folks will calmly mention the issue to the powers-that-be.

Now, back to the action plan. I'm not clear on the timing of most of it. I saw the items classified by priority and duration, but no date certain on implementing a particular item. Does anyone know when we can expect something measurable as far as reporting results?


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## MapMan

I, too, thought it was humorous (maybe a comedy called "The Doomsday Beeks" or some such)... Maybe the government will "get involved", but rest easy -- nothing gets done very quickly in Congress...

Bjorn, no offense meant... I don't want to be regulated any more than you do, however, regulations are always thought upon as evil - *when* they are imposed on your specific industry. Without regulations, for example, crop-dusters could be flying directly over your house and bee yard. You don't mind that type of regulation, do you? 

Perhaps CCD is a serious matter, perhaps not - we will need to see what researchers might determine before we get our undies in a bunch. In the meantime, on a positive note, perhaps this situation will have far-reaching effects towards decreasing the use of agricultural and industrial chemicals, or at least more thorough testing the effects of these products and new technologies. 

I believe I am doing the best I can in reducing my dependence on chemicals - I am an organic grower, located in a secluded valley with my farm and beehives miles from any large agricultural entity -- only near small Amish and other organic family-run farms. I'll admit, I haven't always been non-chemical dependent, but I have decided to raise my fruit and produce in this way. It is more costly, and time-consuming, but I wouldn't want it any other way.

MM


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## BjornBee

Very humorous Mapman. Why not ask me if I want my kids blown away by a gun, then using that as justification to ban all weapons. Typical ploy and rationalization.

I pollinate in the heart of amish and mennonite country in Lancaster county Pennslvania. You must have different amish then I do. Here, they toss chemicals in the fields like candy. I had thought they were more natural in some manner, and that they had better farming practices than those "other" farmers who used gas engines and nasty chemicals. Boy, was I wrong. Your "small amish and other organic family run farms" comment was a real laugher.... 
Next time you visit one of these farms, take notice to the pile of empty chemical containers out behind the barn.


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## MapMan

Bjorn - you *did* forget your meds, didn't you! I certainly did not want to get into a shoving match regarding weapon banning. I like to hunt, but I also like some regulations as I don't want five-year-olds carrying deer rifles into the woods...

You're a "Lumper" Lump *all* regulations together as "evil", and *all* religious groups or cultures together as "evil", etc.... Evil, evil, evil... 

Check out "Organic Valley Cooperative" in my area - the nation's oldest and largest organic farmer's cooperative http://organicvalley.coop/ 

I know my neighbors very well - 9 out of 10 are organic farmers, including dairy certification. I've stacked hay, mended fences, and had joint-ventures in produce crops with them. So, I know what is *in* their sheds and barns, and what is *behind* their barns.

MM


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## JohnK and Sheri

Mike, nanananaNAna, our Amish are better than yours are!!
Seriously, I have found that the majority of Amish in our immediate area are trying to be less chemically dependant than your typical farmer, exceptions apply, of course. Many are realizing they can find a niche market with organic or at least more "natural" produce.
We are happy to have them as neighbors for many reasons, one of which is that they still tend to pasture their livestock, unlike many of the more "modern" farmers. In our area where corn is increasingly the preferencial crop, pasture for cows means pasture for bees, a GOOD thing.

Back to the subject at hand. While I might make an offhand comment about government regulations re apiaries, (especially late at night )that should not be taken as dismissive to soocom1's or your concerns. As a commercial operation totally dependant on honeybees for our livelihood, we have as much to lose as anyone in a worse case scenario. I, however, don't think it's time to panic quite yet. I agree with your points on crying "Wolf", sometimes emphasizing a problem can have unexpected, unpleasant results. But educating the public about the very serious issues the honeybee industry in this country faces, in balance, I think, will be a good thing.
Sheri


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## BjornBee

Mapman, Are you actually trying to be this irritating?

I was once almost thrown off this site for suggesting someone "Not get thier panties in a bunch', by Barry himself.

Keep your comments of medications and calling others "lumpers" to yourself.

I apoligize if your an actual 8 year old kid, as I don't actually know you or your mentality. But I am getting a sense.......


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## MapMan

Mr. BjornBee:

*I sincerely* *apologize* to you, sir, and to others on this forum if I was *unintentionally* rude and irritating in my responses to this issue at hand -- CCD.

MM


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## BjornBee

Map, No harm, no foul. Sometimes this is just how discussions go. I'm sometimes the instigator, and sometimes the brunt of the joke. Its all good in the end when apoligies are given. I know its hard for some to know when I'm jabbing at an issue for entertainment sake (I'm sick that way), and when I'm serious.
Please except my apoligy......till next time...


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## Soocom1

For those who laughed.. 
Go ahead, and laugh. 
If you don't believe this, look at the beef industry. For over 200 years, they have had to be branded. Now, cattle must by law be located 100% of the time with GPS co-ordinates. These co-ordinances MUST be relayed to the USDA with in 48 hours and is part of what is known as NAIS. The National Animal Identification System. For those not familiar: 
http://animalid.aphis.usda.gov/nais/index.shtml
http://nonais.org/
This program includes ALL beef, ALL poultry, ALL horses, ALL llamas, ALL goats, basically any and ALL livestock int he US. The reason........
Supposedly to 'make sure' that all food sources int he US is safe. 
Forget that isolation of infectious diseases have been hugely successful in the US for over 100 years. Forget that most outbreaks in the US are isolated VOLUNTARILY by the farmers, and have been hugely successful in preventing decimation of animal herds for nearly 150 years. 
So if the NAIS can be implemented on farmers and ranchers.... Who's to say it cant be implemented in some for on apiarists. 
Yes there have been problems. But look at our food supply vs. that of the rest of the world. 

As for those who are major apiaries, don't discount this. Fed. regulatory take over of the industry is VERY possible. As I explained to someone else, its not that I dispute that something has happened.. 
Its that it is happening in a matter that is not consistent with problems of this sort. 
This raises my suspension greatly.


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## nursebee

The fact that there is a "paper" and hints of a "virus" but that one can't know about it now sounds like baloney. Kind of a nice hook though.


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## BjornBee

Last count someone qouted to me, there were about 18 viruses known or isolated to bees. Kashmir, blackened queen desease, and so on. With limited research in the past due to a small industry, and perhaps lack of funds, it is easily conceivable that there are more to be found.

With our bees coning into contact with new pests such as SHB, invasive pests from around the world such as roached, and in contact with agriculture practices and industries, I would bet that we don't know about every virus that could, would, and no doubt will, effect bees.

Many times, while searching for something cuasing one problem, something else is discovered.

Two basic questions need to be answered beyond the announcement of a new virus. One, is the virus outbreak or lethal condition due to another condition required to set it in motion. Two, is it the sole factor in CCD. (among many other possible questions that need to be answered.)

Humans carry many viral and bacterial matter. We have immune systems that are constantly coming into contact with them. Its when we have been exposed to a "new" medium, or our immune system has been comprimised, is when problems arise. So the question is...Is it a new virus? Or is something like pesticides, nutrition, or a comprimised immune system allowing it to be a more deadly factor then normal?

The fact with the amount of research being committed, I would of thought something "new" would be found. Now, can it be tied directly to CCD?


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## tecumseh

an unmedicated beesource member writes:
Very humorous Mapman. Why not ask me if I want my kids blown away by a gun, then using that as justification to ban all weapons. Typical ploy and rationalization.

tecumseh thinking out loud adds:
well I see that once again when a hard question is asked that distraction is what you get.

and yes mapman I think you have nailed the malady directly... lumpers.. got to remember 'that'....

for myself if some good public servant is willing to come out with me in July and hoist supers in the hot texas sun I for one would certain appreciate the help.... and would likely acquire a good belly laugh when they tried to light the smoker and put on their viel...


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## tecumseh

soocom1 adds:
For those who laughed.. 
Go ahead, and laugh. 
If you don't believe this, look at the beef industry. For over 200 years, they have had to be branded. Now, cattle must by law be located 100% of the time with GPS co-ordinates. These co-ordinances MUST be relayed to the USDA with in 48 hours and is part of what is known as NAIS. The National Animal Identification System. For those not familiar:

tecumseh replies:
well for one thing soocom branding aninmals is controlled by the state and there are states where cattle (and I assume other livestock like horses) are not branded. most (all that I am familar with) pure bred breed associations do require animal to be tattooed. the state I reside allready requires me to brand (unregistered brand) my equipment for identification purposes.

secondly when I ping your fist sight after reading the first paragraph I wonder what about 'voluntary' you don't understand?


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## Cyndi

Soocom1 said:


> If you don't believe this, look at the beef industry. For over 200 years, they have had to be branded. Now, cattle must by law be located 100% of the time with GPS co-ordinates. These co-ordinances MUST be relayed to the USDA with in 48 hours and is part of what is known as NAIS.


Hmm?? Does this mean we're gonna have to put a GPS on each individual bee?? This will be fun,


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## JohnK and Sheri

Our insurance requires we supply them with legal land locations of every apiary, I have no problem with this. The state of California requires we supply them with locations of our bees when they are moved in there, I have no problem with this (especially since our broker takes care of it ).
Our bees are inspected by the Wisconsin state bee inspector before shipping, I have no problem with this.
I suppose some would consider the above examples as one more slippery slope but I can see reason in them all.

We have considered GPS tracking (on the pallet, cyndi, hopefully not each bee  ) as a theft deterrent/solution but would hate to see something like this required where economically or logistically it makes no sense.

The Honey Board already takes $.01 a pound, they could easily raise this fee or another mechanism to collect additional fees could be installed, through the bee inspection service or another agency. I would definitely not be in favor of additional mandated funding or horrendous record keeping requirements being imposed upon us, we have enough work already!
Sheri


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## peggjam

*Then There's This:*

http://www.slate.com/id/2170305/?GT1=10238


This type of sentiment could be bad.


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## BjornBee

Oh PLEEEEAAAASSSSSEEEEEEEE! Pegjam,

This article must not have any facts. I was just told that masons, and my comments recently of growers seeking other alternatives to honeybees was just nonsense. For the almond industry to attempt using masons...is completely nuts! What do they know about bees or pollination anyways....


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## peggjam

My point exactly......but....if these uninformed idiots can get stuff like this published, where does our postion go then?


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## paulnewbee1

My dimes worth, it used to be worth a penny for our thoughts but the cost just keep go up. 

Well we all have problems with our hive in some way or the other this is not to say that one needs to have government regulations. What we need is as bee keepers is to regulate ourselves There are enough of you out there who are extremely knowledgeable on the subject of bee keeping and there needs to be a national effort to do so. There are thousands of bee clubs and state organizations. I feel that it is too early to speculate what is going on with the CCD problems. Does anyone really know? It just happened last year; we all know that there is big money when it comes to pollination of crops.
I would agree with some that we need to have some regulations on bee keeping. My feeling is that the government will say that the problem lies with the hobbyist and that you will have to buy a permit and you all know that it will cost big bucks. Once the government gets involved there is no ending to adding cost to the industry. 

In this present environment of government the people of this country have lost what this country was founded on and that is a two party system. We have a congress that acts like one governing body The Republications act like Democrats. The national stations are doing the bidding of the liberals which is not new but in the six years this has been very one sided which makes the libs, happy. It’s almost like we have one ruling body in our government So much for the political stuff. My feeling is that CCD is the direct result of Bush being incharge of the country. He's blamed for all things.


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## JohnK and Sheri

>>>My feeling is that CCD is the direct result of Bush being incharge of the country.<<<
My suspicion all along!
Sheri


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## Keith Jarrett

paulnewbee wrote,
>Well we all have problems with our hive in some way or the other this is not to say that one needs to have government regulations.

Well, WELL said,

> My feeling is that the government will say that the problem lies with the hobbyist and that you will have to buy a permit and you all know that it will cost big bucks.

Very well said,

>Once the government gets involved there is no ending to adding cost to the industry. 

Hello out there, are you guys reading this,

>In this present environment of government the people of this country have lost what this country was founded on 

Ya, we the people for the people by the people


>My feeling is that CCD is the direct result of Bush being incharge of the country. He's blamed for all things

****, well said again.


Bush is a do-er.

When Bush try to give the S.S. system back into the hands of the people (tax payer), the libbs said, oh that would be dangerous, just look at the stock market??? well lets just do that, almost at a 14,000 high on the dow as of today.

The libbs run on the fear that somehow the Goverment knows best.

S.S. health care etc... have you ever heard their story change??? NO

Every four years you hear the same from them(libbs), But Bush has tried to put the power back in the tax payers hands.


Paulnewbee GREAT POST

Keith


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## Robert Brenchley

This is going to lead to a flame war with someone if it goes on! Whatever problems you may have in your political system, try to keep party politics out of it, and stick to bees.


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## tecumseh

from across the pond... howdy robert.

robert adds:
This is going to lead to a flame war with someone if it goes on! Whatever problems you may have in your political system, try to keep party politics out of it, and stick to bees.

tecumseh suggest:
well the larger problem robert (and I would suspect it is not unique to the US of A) is: that there a small number of very vocal citizens here who have acquired their political belief from a heroin addict (plea bargined but quite evidently quilty), the mentally challanged (verified) and various religious charlatans. Like most true believers they require no evidence or proof or any connection with reality. Most of the same crowd still believes that justice would better be served by a quick shoot out on main street at high noon. They still cling to the belief that good will ALWAYS prevail.... To simply tag this crowd as NAIVE is at best an understatement. 

you robert seem to have overlooked the fact that our political/economic system has lead us to any number of problems with involves the bees... So how can we possible seperate the bees from our political/economic reality (this is a hypothetical question which I really do not expect you to address)?

and have a most excellent day...


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## mountainvalleybee

*ccd*

dont care about the guvmnt in any way they usually cant solve many problems, the best solution is mixed ferals as far as i know they do not have many problems with ccd or anything else, we made up 4 fr splits and shipped to california in feb. and the spring before the last we sent all of our capped brood and most of the adult bees to the same area, the colonies left behind which at this point were on 2-3 fr had built back to full colonies in 1-3 chambers with feeding by the first of april. in the areas we have bees the farmers are constantly treating their crops, cotton, soybeans, corn and others and we see no signs of ccd or anything similiar. even treating our bees in such a manner our losses were extremely small and probably due to weather more than anything else, maybee 1-3 colonies in a hundred.


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## Robert Brenchley

I've picked this up a bit late, but I'm all too well aware of the existence of very severe political problems on both sides of the Atlantic, and believe me, I'm not against you. My worry is that once party politics, which always exploits all sorts of prejudices, comes in, rationality can go out of the window very fast, and you just get endless flaming. I've seen it on other lists. Another problem I've seen is that the political views held by one nation can sometimes be grossly insulting or offensive to another, and those propounding them can be totally unaware of it. So perhaps it's best left off-list!

A few years ago, there was some seriously unpleasant (to my mind) ranting on one poorly moderated, US-based international list, to the effect that 'We've got a moral case to do anything we like to anyone we like, we're the best, we're going to duff up the world, and nobody outside the US (this was explicitly stated by one poster) has any right to criticise us'. You can imagine how that felt to anyone outside the US, and some inside it. OK, that sort of stuff's gone quiet now, but the pendulum never stops swinging. Once you allow a rant from one perspective to pass unquestioned, you have to allow them all to avoid bias, and the end result can be total mayhem. As I say, I've seen it.


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## mountainvalleybee

*politics*

I agree with you lets not see pure politics here and solve bee problems only, my statement referred more along the lines of money in versus gains achieved, the government will do or not according to the season and we will have to solve the most of these problems ourselves and should be thankful for any help we do recieve, and this was not a reflection on the researchers because the last several years they have been hampered just as have the beekeepers, projects initially funded then not, ended before real gains could be achieved, or talked about then not started at all.


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