# bee keeping in medium boxes



## GaryG74 (Apr 9, 2014)

Go to Michael Bush's web site for loads of info on using mediums only. There are also several threads on medium boxes here on BeeSource. Go to the search function and type in medium only or medium brood boxes. Generally, most people do it because of the weight issue (just like using 8 frame boxes vs. 10 frame boxes). I use 8 fr equipment almost exclusively and some of my hives are medium only. Only issue I see is having to go through several boxes to find the queen if you must find her especially if you don't use a queen excluder. I'll search until I find young, uncapped larva that shows she was there x days ago and close the hive. I really like the weight difference too. It's hard on the back to lift a full 8 fr deep, much less a 10 frame deep.


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## matthewstiles (Jun 4, 2013)

Works out fine for me.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I've used nothing but mediums (after 26 years of deeps and shallows) since about 2003 and virtually nothing but eight frame mediums since about 2004. I said I'd never go back, but now Honey Flow only comes in deeps... so I bought a bunch of eight frame deep boxes now...
http://www.bushfarms.com/beeseightframemedium.htm
http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslazy.htm#uniformframesize
http://www.honeyflow.com/


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## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

Weight is zero issue in a brood box. A deep brood weighs *nothing* compared to a 8-frame medium honey super. Weight will be an issue in a deep honey super. 

I find production bees have larger, faster brood nests in a deep. I have a short season, so must start really fast and hard.

I am running a lot of mediums to generate brood for splits. I am taking advantage of the constant propaganda for that system to supply the market demand to hobby beeks.

As for 8-frame -- the advocates talk about shaving the ears of frames to fit 9 in the box. So for a 10% savings you are going non-standard. Okay, if you build it yourself, but for every purchased item you pay a premium.

Pix of an all-medium colony on 2/14/15 prepped for generating brood to fill medium nucs for the "hobby" market. To brag a bit this was a 2x medium nuc on Christmas Day, today it is a 4x 10-frame medium -- when my Queen cells come in I will split it into 4 frame medium nucs.


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## RudyT (Jan 25, 2012)

lovely pattern. while we are in the midst of cold and snow, it is good to see lovely pictures of bees and brood and even honey flowing out of a tap.

we have visited Morro Bay twice and think it is an enchanting place.


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

All mediums works. All deeps works. You could probably do all shallows if you wanted to. All Dadant "superdeeps" works fine, but you need a crane to move the boxes.

Weight is an issue -- my neighbor is switching to all eight frame equipment because she cannot pick up a ten frame deep full of brood, and that makes keeping bees a real problem for her. I made her some eight frame boxes to trade for her ten frame ones, we will do the switch this spring.

Use what suits you, the bees don't really care.

Peter


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## woodsy (Mar 3, 2013)

I started with all 8 frame mediums and they worked well when
buying package bees to put in them.
Once i started buying nucs which typically come with deep frames i had to buy some some 8 frame deep boxes to make that work easier.


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## rmaxwell (Apr 23, 2014)

I use mostly mediums. Haven't had any trouble with mine. I have noticed that the 8-frames seem to thrive a little more. Could just be my perception though.


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## Jack Grimshaw (Feb 10, 2001)

"Only issue I see is having to go through several boxes to find the queen if you must find her especially if you don't use a queen excluder"

I hear this often and on the surface it makes sense but,for me,it is not true.
I've been transitioning to all meds over the last 2yrs and sometimes pull the Q to give the colony a brood break near the end of the flow when the population is the largest.
My eyesight is not the greatest and I must wear bifocals.I can scan a med frame in one sweep where on a deep I go round and round(and round).My few remaining brood nests with deeps take more time,every time.

If all you want to find are eggs,you're only pulling a few frames anyway so size doesn't matter.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I can scan a med frame in one sweep where on a deep I go round and round(and round)

I really noticed it one day after I had changed to all mediums and I spent the day looking through a friends hives for queens who had all deeps. Not only did I have to go round and round on the deeps after getting used to a sweep across the mediums, but my wrist would get tired while doing it. The deeps weigh a lot more. I can definitely go through a hive of medium boxes quicker than the same size hive of deep boxes finding the queen. In fact you can usually tell what box the queen is in by how they act and one box of mediums is much easier to got through than a box of deeps.

>I have noticed that the 8-frames seem to thrive a little more.

Both 8 frame and mediums allow you more flexibility in space management and that does seem to help with thriving, especially in early spring and late fall and winter.


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## philip.devos (Aug 10, 2013)

kanikka said:


> Does anyone have experience beekeeping in medium supers? Because of the weight of a full super I thought I might try using 3 medium supers as brood boxes instead of two regular boxes. Any comments on how this worked for you?


Wish I had done what you describe, if you are headed toward ALL medium 8-frames. I have 8-frame deeps; When they are full of honey, an 8-frame deep box can be pretty heavy (for me at least). I don't see any reason that what you are describing wouldn't work, and would be easier on your back.


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

Medium 10 frame is all I run. Three for the brood chamber all the others is for the golden honey.


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

woodsy said:


> I started with all 8 frame mediums and they worked well when
> buying package bees to put in them.
> Once i started buying nucs which typically come with deep frames i had to buy some some 8 frame deep boxes to make that work easier.


Could have just made an extension shim for under the medium. Pretty much the same thing.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

Besides the weight issues, for me the best part of using all mediums is the interchangeability of frames, especially during the swarm prevention period in the spring. It really simplifies frame manipulation techniques.

If the bees start to backfill medium brood frames with nectar they can be pulled and go right up into the supers, and empty drawn frames go back in their place in the brood box. 

In the past when I used deep frames for the brood nest I always ran into the problem of having nowhere to move the deep backfilled frames to, and not enough spare empty drawn deep frames to replace them with. Using all mediums made things alot easier for me during the spring season.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

mr beeman


> Could have just made an extension shim for under the medium. Pretty much the same thing


If you use extentions, how do you eventually rotate them out. I am a first timer and still have to get bees, which will probly be a nuc or just some brood frame from a deep with bees pored in. Got a fealing this is a bridge I am going to have to cross.
Thanks
gww


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

I tried running mediums but won't continue because it is more time consuming and expensive. I will keep the medium brood chambers i have for seconds and queen rearing.


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## BeeWill (Apr 17, 2013)

I have used all 10 frame mediums since I started two years ago and works good for me. I like the lower weight and the interchangeability of boxes and frames throughout the hive. I would recommend it. I don't think it makes any difference to the bees.


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

GWW.. The following spring you can remove the deep frames and the shim. The queen should be laying the upper brood chamber.


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## rolftonbees (Jul 10, 2014)

I have been pondering going with All medium boxes for future purchases. 

The only negative I have found is this:

Everyone in my area uses deep. This will make it more complicated to buy nucs or splits. For this reason, I have reconditioned all of the deeps I have. I want to buy some splits this year and have not found a medium frame keeper as a source.

I will put a medium on top of all the deeps and try getting brood for a split that way from my established hives.

The freedom manage your frames from any box to any box is a benefit of all medium frames.


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

All mediums here as well. Moving frames around is a big advantage. Drone comb get moved up and becomes honey storage.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I find mediums a lot LESS time consuming in every way. Finding queens etc. is faster. I manage my hives by the box now, which I could not do with deeps. I split by the box. I harvest by the box. I move stores around by the box. I seldom need to look at frames.

I see two disadvantages. One is that MOST (but not all) nuc producers are selling just deeps. The other is the cost of eight frame boxes with frames for the same volume of space in the hive is more expensive. But not enough more expensive to cover back surgery...


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Michael Bush said:


> Finding queens etc. is faster.


Why?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

To look at one medium frame of brood for a queen I do one sweep from left to right. The comb is small enough that I can cover it in that one sweep. Then the other side. On a deep I have to do two sweeps to cover it and then two more in case the queen moved between the first sweep and the second sweep, so that's four sweeps per side or eight sweeps per frame. as opposed to two on the medium If you figure the difference in the number of frames (16 mediums :10 deeps) I'd have to do 32 sweeps to look for a queen in the equivalent of one ten frame box. I'd have to do 80 for one ten from box of deeps. I never really noticed how much faster it was until after I had been running mediums for several years and I was in a beeyard with all deeps and we were looking for queens. Wow! It was literally more than twice the work. Plus my wrists and arms were a lot more tired doing deeps. They don't seem to weight that much more when they are brood but they do and the leverage when you are adjusting for light is more.

That's not counting that you can often figure out what box the queen is in by how they act, and once I do that, I have only eight frames of mediums to look through at two swipes a frame instead of ten deeps at 8 swipes per frame. So that's a difference of 16:80 or five times as much work to do the deeps.

I think when you are tired of looking for a queen any reasons sounds like a good thing to blame for how long it's taking...


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## rkereid (Dec 20, 2009)

I've had all mediums for the last 7 years. I cut down all my old deeps years ago. It has worked great. It has made it much easier to expand since all frames and boxes are the same size. It costs a little more vs. the space created, mostly because there is not much difference between the price of med and deep frames and boxes, but to me it is worth it to have one size fits all.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Mr beeman



> GWW.. The following spring you can remove the deep frames and the shim. The queen should be laying the upper brood chamber


Thank you
gww


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