# Thicker supers



## taterdan (Feb 6, 2015)

I have built two hives out of 2by material. Seems to work nicely. Thinking thicker supers better for the bees. Less change in temp. Not that much heavier. Last longer. Any thoughts


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## Cabin (Nov 30, 2014)

taterdan said:


> I have built two hives out of 2by material. Seems to work nicely. Thinking thicker supers better for the bees. Less change in temp. Not that much heavier. Last longer. Any thoughts


Well you double the r value. From .75 to 1.5. The weight is twice as much as well. I did the same thing this fall. I found that by making a 9 frame super I can still use a factory screened bottom board for mites. This spring I hope to do a split and see how the bees like it. Not sure I am going to like the weight of 9 deeps but I had the lumber and the time to play around. The bees do seem to like the long langes made with 2x10s and so far so good.


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

The increase in R value is negligible. You could glue a sandwich of 1/4" plywood, 1/2" polysicyanurate, and 1/4" plywood which would have an R value of about 16.

IMO, it is better not to add weight to beekeeping equipment.


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## Cabin (Nov 30, 2014)

True but some times it is just fun to try something different. How would the ply/poly/ply sandwich go together? Just think of the r value of 1 inch poly with plywood faces!  Sounds like an idea for next winter maybe.


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## taterdan (Feb 6, 2015)

I feel it wood resemble a hollow tree.
The weight is only twice that of a empty 3/4 super and you really aren't moving the main hive bodys alot just the honey supers and my bottom boards are made of 2by material also. Will experiment and see have 4 hives 2 each.


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## Cabin (Nov 30, 2014)

Just a thought. If you just make the brood boxes with 2x what are you going to make the honey supers out of to fit?


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## Cyan (Jan 27, 2015)

The weight is definitely a factor if you have back or joint issues- no so much for brood boxes though. 

I had similar thoughts last year, ever going as far as routing the tops and bottoms for an airtight locking design, but stopped when I lost my bees. Is it better in any way? I do like the locking feature, but in terms of weight, it's just easier to use 1.5" - 2" foam board and waterproof duct tape to add insulation. And so far, my 1 remaining hive seems fine with what I've done.


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

My thoughts on using 2x material to build bee hives.
In general when you buy a 2x8, 2x10, or 2x12 it is meant for inside use. Those are made from yellow pine.
Yellow pine will rot right out from under paint.

Build a yellow pine picnic table and see.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

I have made 100+ deep with 2 X lumber. Because at retail stores the 1 X lumber is crap, it's purpose is for shelves or trim, full of knots and cracks, cost 50% more, and they might have 5 boards to chose from. 

The 2 X lumber especially 2 X 12s are made for structural support, as floor joists or main beams of houses. Fewer stronger knots, no cracks, high quality center cut lumber. Very little warping if any. A big stack at the store to chose from. With a discount I was making deeps for just over 6 bucks a piece for regular priced wood (not including paint). 

Painted, screwed and glued my 2 X boxes will out last me, and my kids. So strong I could park my truck on them.

They are heavier so if you continually move hives to different locations or any addition weight is too heavy then these aren't for you.


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## taterdan (Feb 6, 2015)

Made them out of 2by also. You would have a 3/4 exspoesed lip if not. I don't leave supers on 
Till end of flow. two honey supers per give is all I use. A full hive would be 2 brood boxes and one super and 2 honey supers


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## warrior (Nov 21, 2005)

aunt betty said:


> My thoughts on using 2x material to build bee hives.
> In general when you buy a 2x8, 2x10, or 2x12 it is meant for inside use. Those are made from yellow pine.
> Yellow pine will rot right out from under paint.
> 
> Build a yellow pine picnic table and see.


I would disagree. I have quite a few boxes I've made out of yellow pine that is still sound after years outside UNPAINTED.


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## Sky (Jul 7, 2015)

make your inner dimensions match a lang, then rabbit the out side top edges down to 3/4. This will let you stack standard (lighter) equipment on top, and eliminates the ledge that catches water (and either directs it inside the hive or encourages rot). 

around here - from big box stores, 1X is usually pine - a much lighter wood than the doug fir 2X material used for construction.

You won't/don't need the "extra" heft in your honey supers - since they are used when conditions are "nice", you can actually go thinner/lighter - i would consider different materials.... - think this one over - in a good year you can be stacking supers at eyelevel or higher - and weight will become a factor that your back will remind you of constantly....


Sky


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## Frank (Apr 21, 2015)

I built one hive just out of 2x6. I beveled one side 45 degree
|___|
_
/ |
on all boards and glued two together to get the hight of the box. The beveled part comes to the outside of the box, the inside is smooth. This way you have a nice grip on the box, any rain runs always off and you can mix those boxes with the regular boxes. 
I am not sure how to put a picture in here, that would explain way better than words.


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## Frank (Apr 21, 2015)

Actually, I would not use this boxes as supers. (to heavy ) But for overwintering they could be beneficial . Any regular sized box fits on top as a super and with the bevel on the outside any rain will run off.


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

Sky said:


> make your inner dimensions match a Lang', then rabbit the out side top edges down to 3/4. This will let you stack standard (lighter) equipment on top, and eliminates the ledge that catches water....Sky


Thanks for that idea, Sky. I may just do exactly that.

I'm likely building some Jumbo Dadants for the queen yard out of 2x lumber. I'll use Sugar Pine, as it warps very little. Warping bad. More bad tall box and finger box joint. ooogh.

My main reason is for the widths necessary to make Jumbo Dadants will probably require 2 pieces and a tongue & groove joint, so the wider thickness gives a far better glue joint, and the finger box joints should last many years longer than they would in 3/4" thick wood. Moving those around should be fun...

BTW, inside dimensions on the Langstroth hive are 18-3/8" Length I.D. x 14-3/4" Width I.D. I made up an assembly block that size, but 1/64th inch smaller, then wrapped it in that light tan postal tape so the glue would not stick. I can clamp them as hard as I want, staple them, then kick the block out before the glue hardens. Every one comes out square.


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

warrior said:


> I would disagree. I have quite a few boxes I've made out of yellow pine that is still sound after years outside UNPAINTED.


Interesting. Here in central Illinois yellow pine is totally worthless for outside use. Too humid. Georgia must be drier or something.


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## whiskers (Aug 28, 2011)

I believe there are two species of yellow pine, long leaf, which has good rot resistance and short leaf which has less.
Bill


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## ralittlefield (Apr 25, 2011)

It is fun to try new things and if anyone wants to build there hives out of thicker lumber I say go for it.

Having said that, I see no real advantage in using thicker wood. As has been stated above the increase in r value is not even worth talking about.

I doubt that they will increase the life of the box because rot usually does not start on a vertical side and work its way through the thickness, it starts on a horizontal surface like the top edge of a finger on a box joint, a hand hold that is not beveled to let water run off, or the joint between two boxes.

So what advantage do you get for the extra weight? Someone said that they can buy better and cheaper 2x lumber than 1X. If that is the case then that is an advantage, but that is not the case for me.


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

Canadian made boxes are 7/8" vs 3/4". The extra 1/8" provides a thicker rabbet (weakest area of the box) that is more durable. It does make the box a little heavier. If you are running single brood chambers and not moving hives too much, 2x would probably be ok. You will need to build your own larger telescoping covers too.


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

I had a buddy who is local to me make a few complete hives out of 2x material. He also thought it would give the bees added protection from the elements. All his bees died. What from? I'm not sure.


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## drlonzo (Apr 15, 2014)

I figured I'd chime in here and give my .02 worth. I have made up 12 DD 8F hives using the wider 2x lumber. Honestly, I can say that I do see a big difference in the way those bees act in that equipment compared to the bees in single thickness boxes. I don't think it's all about the additional R value though. I think instead it's more about thermal mass. 

While making these hives I'd stack several boxes out for paint to dry in the sun. I chose to use an off color of grey. During the same time I had to repaint a few of the single thickness boxes as well. After doing so and they had time to dry I was curious as to how hot those boxes would get in the full sun with that color of paint. I checked each of the two types of boxes and found a 30 deg F difference on the temperature on the inside of the boxes. The thinner wall had a higher temperature than the thick wall boxes. After finding that out, I thought well how's it going to do going the reverse in cooling down. The thick wall boxes radiate the heat longer into the hive, keeping it warm on cold days, allowing the bees to move easier, whereas the thin wall boxes cooled off rather quickly and from testing would at times cause the bees to cluster in the wrong areas. 

I should mention that in the summer heat, full sun, the bees have way smaller beards on these hives as well.

For those reasons, as well as cost, I'm now in the process of switching over all of my DD equipment to the thick wall 2x material.


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## Cabin (Nov 30, 2014)

ralittlefield said:


> Having said that, I see no real advantage in using thicker wood. As has been stated above the increase in r value is not even worth talking about.


That depends on how you say it! 'Double the R value' does sound good. 1.5 vs .75 not so good. 

It seems around here good 2xs are cheaper than good 1xs. I butt joint then with trox head lags and glue.


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

I build furniture and was trying to figure out a way to do some hives with a ‘through tenon’ like the Morris or Arts and Crafts style (I don’t like the Greene and Greene but just my choice). You could do this with 2x material, It would be cool as well as the greatest strength!
How are you doing your Joinery? The other thing I was thinking is a guy could just keep stacking 2x2 or 2x4’s until you had the height that you needed, making each one alternate the length. It would look like a finger joint on the box.


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## Moon (May 7, 2011)

aunt betty said:


> Interesting. Here in central Illinois yellow pine is totally worthless for outside use. Too humid. Georgia must be drier or something.


This is what I was thinking when I read your initial post about pine being junk. All of my boxes are out of pine and they hold up really well. I live in an extremely arid area though so wood doesn't really rot like it would in a humid area. It dries out and weathers, left without any kind of upkeep it will eventually crack and warp like you wouldn't believe. Heck, I've even got pallets made out of pine that sit on the ground year round that haven't weathered to bad after 3-4 years. Definitely climate dependent.


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