# I think I fed my bees too much sugar water...



## bee keeper chef (Nov 1, 2015)

First you do not have true honey in the super you have sugar honey You need to stop feeding and look to see if the queen has any room to lay I have a feeling that they probably have backfilled the comb I don't know what kind of fall flow you have but if you may have created a situation where they may swarm on you. If it were me I would look through the hive and if it is backfilled and maybe take out a couple of deep frames and extract them then put them back in the middle of the second deep giving your queen room.


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

Feeding coupled with natural nectar flows surely have your hives "honeybound". In your case "sugar syrup bound". lol
Get in there a do a full hive inspection. Post pics when you are finished. 
In a perfect situation, the lowerd deeps should be filled with brood and the medium filled with honey. It is backwards in your case due to the constant feeding and leaving no place for the queen to lay.
You should have about 40-50k of bees per hive going into winter. 
I'm not sure where beekeepers get the notion to "feed until they no longer take it". It's a falsehood. Bees are wired to store nectar and pollen and will do so as long as it is available to them even at their own demise. I will emergency feed them only if they have to have it to survive. Most nectar flows are enough for the bees to survive. You may get an odd year or two every blue moon where they need assistance, but it's rare.
BTW, you will have plenty of "honey" to take if you do a full inspection. Get ready to crank up the extractor. My guess is that you are set up for the crush and strain method though. lol


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

I would say they have been overfed. In her search for a place to lay, the Queen has moved up into the medium as it was being drawn. Bees are greedy creatures who will keep taking what they are given as long as they have a place to put it. If they run out of room they could swarm, even this time of year, and you don't want that.
To say the deep is full of honey is probably a misnomer. It is probably full of sugar syrup, although you didn't say you were feeding them syrup, I am assuming so.
You should stop feeding if your brood boxes are full of syrup (honey bound) , because the Queen needs room to lay a few rounds of brood to gain enough population to make a large enough cluster to make it through Winter.
You really need to know what is happening in both deep brood boxes and the medium in order to make any sound decisions. How many frames are covered with bees? Hopefully there is capped brood in the deep brood boxes and if so how many frames? Is there any uncapped brood?
You may be right on track, but if I were you I would want to know for sure. You will have to dig a little deeper. I try to keep my intrusions into the brood boxes to a minimum, also, but sometimes you just have to know what is going on in there.
My Queens began the buildup for the Fall flow and Winter about three weeks ago which is a little earlier than usual.

Alex


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

I would want to see the bottom deep full of brood with the second deep and the medium full of honey. constant feeding since may is a lot of feeding. Sounds to me like the bees backfilled the lower deep and the queen had to move to the top to find space to lay. If this split up the brood nest they could end up making queen cells in one or the other of the boxes with brood. You could switch the medium to the bottom of the hive and stop feeding. This puts the queen back at the bottom and also allows the bees to use up some of the honey hopefully opening up more brood space. Putting another medium on may do that also.


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

I would stop feeding, but I don't think it's as bad a situation as some posters seem to feel.

I would also look in each box._ I_ don't get the idea of not looking in the brood boxes because you don't want to disturb them. You need the information that looking will provide.

Although it's likely to be considered complete heresy by some, if your brood is only in the medium, and there is any space in the bottom box, I would move the medium below the lowest deep, leaving the current upper deep as the final top box. That way the queen has a bit more space to lay (in the not-totally filled frames of the current bottom box) and the top box is straight across stores. That's a pretty good set-up for winter. The bees will deal with the change just fine. Running a medium as the bottom box sometimes happens if you are using it as a pollen box. It's not the end of the world, even if that's not what you intended - you can just give them a new medium as a super next year. All of my stacks have a medium as the lowest box, _on purpose_, even though they have at least three deeps above, sometime five of them.

Whatever their planned configuration, I encourage my beginners to feed until they have enough drawn frames for a good wintering size, then stop. If they want to give the bees a boost to draw some additional super frames that's OK. But it's time to stop, now. 

Enj.


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## gwenceles (Jan 29, 2016)

Well, as you know, they will build comb between box. My husband would see the ripped up comb, etc. and say we shouldn't disturb the bees. I wish I hadn't listened to him (now I'm not sure what is going on), but overfeeding was my own fault. I didn't realize they would just keep saving it, to the detriment of the queen. I thought they would slow down on it, and then I would know to stop, and they never really did.

I will do a full inspection today. I don't want to just scrape out (so they don't have to start fresh, I use wired beeswax), so I'm going to try a DIY extractor like the second one here:


http://www.plantertomato.com/2010/09/beekeeping-how-to-make-a-honey-extractor-for-28.html

Depending on what's in the bottom deep, I will take a full deep of honey, put the medium on the bottom, and the empty deep in the middle. How does that sound? Or should I only do a couple of frames?


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

Honey bound hives go ballistic next spring so maybe you should start preparing for the new colony (baby).
Was gifted two honey bound colonies last June. (15 months ago).
They were both honey bound on day one. Could not get it moved up so they sat on it all winter. Both hives exploded this spring. 
They made a lot of honey this year on top of being split. Turned into 4 honey making beasts.


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

The comb between the boxes is often referred to as bridge or burr comb around here, and is normal. A lot of the time it is Drone size. I clean it off because I wouldn't want to accidentally trap the Queen when putting the hive back together. If you scrape it off put it in a can or jar for later examination for mites. It can be an indicator of a problem. I have read that SHB are attracted to the smell of comb and all that it contains is the main reason I put it in a can. I drink the cheap coffee that still comes in cans, so that is what I use. LOL
It sounds like good advice from the other posters. 

Good luck,
Alex


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

gwenceles said:


> So far, my hives are two deeps and 1 medium. I have been feeding them about 2 quarts each per day since installation (May 18). Missed a few days, but pretty consistent.


that's a little over 500 lbs of feed per hive in less than 4 months. i didn't realize a colony could use that much.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

gwenceles said:


> I will do a full inspection today.


what did you find with your inspection?


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## gwenceles (Jan 29, 2016)

squarepeg said:


> what did you find with your inspection?


They were very defensive, and there are a LOT of bees. But the second bottom seems to be all honey/syrup as well (I didn't pull every frame). I am going to try again on Saturday. It's very difficult because I'm never seen them be so aggressive before. 

I am really concerned now. I ordered some better protective gear for my husband, but I think I will just have to go it alone if it's not here by Saturday.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

did you smoke them?


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## gwenceles (Jan 29, 2016)

JRG13 said:


> did you smoke them?


Yes, they were still trying to sting through gloves, we both got stung on the hands. I smoked through the entrance, but they went crazy when we separated the bottom deep from the top. I was thinking of trying to spray with sugar water as an alternative? I read they get focused on cleaning.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

understood. i wondered if there might have been some passive robbing going on that would account for so much syrup having been consumed, and if there has been robbing that could explain some of the defensiveness. hopefully they are still queenright and have some brood in the lower box. thanks for the report and i hope it goes well for ya'll on saturday.


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## gwenceles (Jan 29, 2016)

squarepeg said:


> understood. i wondered if there might have been some passive robbing going on that would account for so much syrup having been consumed, and if there has been robbing that could explain some of the defensiveness. hopefully they are still queenright and have some brood in the lower box. thanks for the report and i hope it goes well for ya'll on saturday.


Thanks. It seemed like a lot of syrup to me. I asked the local bee club (back at the end of June), and they said that the heat might account for some of the excessive sugar consumption. They said they would slow down, but they never really did, so I kept feeding. I feel really stupid now, but I never read about honeybound hives, and honestly didn't know they would do that. 

One way or another, I am getting some frames out on Saturday and extracting. I just hope there is still time to fix this.


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## Motomania (Oct 31, 2015)

gwenceles said:


> Yes, they were still trying to sting through gloves, we both got stung on the hands. I smoked through the entrance, but they went crazy when we separated the bottom deep from the top. I was thinking of trying to spray with sugar water as an alternative? I read they get focused on cleaning.


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My bees were more aggressive than usual a couple weeks ago; but I went in Tuesday and they were very docile.
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Main difference I noticed was that when they were aggressive; it was a cooler day and overcast.(only time I had to inspect) so I suspect a lotta bees were home and bored with nothing to do.......except come after me.
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When they were docile on Tuesday; we had a 102 heat index and sunny; and there was TONS of activity.......no bored bees I suspect. On this day; I didn't bother smoking at all; didn't need it, just kept it lit and close by. 
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The sugar spray trick works pretty good too if they get aggressive and the smoke doesn't deter them. It especially works great if I have some rogue bees follow me long after closing up the hive and walking away. They tend to hover around my face when following me; and that's where I spritz them with a sugar water mist; they quickly lose interest in me.
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I'm a couple hours north of you and with the weather just cooling off; it would probably be best to wait for the hottest, sunniest time of day to inspect?.........at least that's how I coordinate my inspects when I can now.
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Good luck, and keep us posted!


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## gwenceles (Jan 29, 2016)

Not as bad as I thought. Having better protection has certainly helped with our confidence. They were also not as cranky as last week, although they got worse toward the end.

The medium super brood was hatching when we inspected (really cool to watch). I didn't see the queen though, but as I said, there are a ton of bees there, so it's hard to look. I didn't see new eggs, but it was probably really early, and I'm not too good at spotting them yet.

There is capped brood in the bottom deep, while the second deep is indeed all honey/syrup. It was in the center, and we got overwhelmed last week before we could check every frame.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

great news. it's interesting that you have brood in the top and bottom boxes with solid honey in the middle box. it makes me wonder if you might have 2 queens in there. i'm kinda surprised that having continuous feed on all summer didn't push them to swarm along the way. thanks for the update.


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## gwenceles (Jan 29, 2016)

squarepeg said:


> great news. it's interesting that you have brood in the top and bottom boxes with solid honey in the middle box. it makes me wonder if you might not have 2 queens in there. i'm kinda surprised that having continuous feed on all summer didn't push them to swarm along the way. thanks for the update.


Perhaps they did, and I didn't notice? But it is very high population (to me anyway), and I never saw a sudden significant drop, which I was expecting with a swarm. They started out with a package on May 18 with wired beeswax foundation, added the second deep on June 26, and added the medium super in mid July.

The population is huge compared to before (we are looking at the old videos, and even a few weeks ago, there were a lot less bees). I guess they could swarm now as well?


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

gwenceles said:


> I guess they could swarm now as well?


not as likely this late in the season, especially now that you've removed the feeder. if you are able to determine if there are eggs in the both the top box and bottom box, i think the chances are good that there are two queens in there. 

if that is indeed the case, the older queen may eventually take off with a small swarm or they might just go into winter with both queens and allow the older queen to die of natural causes.

what i would expect to see happening going forward is for the broodnest in the medium to get closed out and backfilled with honey. i think your best bet is to just let things play out at this point.


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## wesbeekeeper (Jul 2, 2019)

I have a 5 frame nuc that is consuming 6 mason jars a day and that is just when I notice they are empty. Im sure they could and would drink more. I open feed and have it set up to where not a drop is wasted. I give them the choice at least. not dumping it unto their hive in July, just seems wrong, but I want to grow fast so im helping.


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## LAlldredge (Aug 16, 2018)

2nd year- Sounds like you did great getting them established. FWIW, I have a colony that is more protective of it's nest. That trait in and of itself is not such a bad thing because they know how to defend. I'm using a quiet box (enjambres talks about this) and hive drapes (flour sack towels found at BiMart) for my inspections and it's making a difference. I lay a flour sack drape over the boxes that are taken off to help them feel more protected and there's much less flying. The quiet box is used to store frames taken out to give me room to inspect. There are YouTube videos about how to build them and I have very rudimentary carpentry skills. I almost made the mistake of over feeding because I can't stand the idea of them being hungry. But once they have pulled comb in the lowest brood box the goal is mostly met. Then when they started back filing the brood nest that told me all I needed to know. They weren't hungry. They were faking me out and storing all the extra in inappropriate places. No more feeding unless there is a dearth and my inspections tell me they don't have enough stores.


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## Greeny (Jun 27, 2016)

wesbeekeeper said:


> I have a 5 frame nuc that is consuming 6 mason jars a day and that is just when I notice they are empty. Im sure they could and would drink more. I open feed and have it set up to where not a drop is wasted. I give them the choice at least. not dumping it unto their hive in July, just seems wrong, but I want to grow fast so im helping.


You have to be feeding lots of bees besides your nuc.
Are you using food coloring in your syrup? It will be interesting to hear nearby beekeepers commenting on the green or red or blue honey in their hives.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

As someone who actually uses mason jars in their nucs, I can tell you that a strong 5 frame nuc will put away a pint to a pint and a half in 24 hours. Most of the nucs will not take it that fast. I have robbing sceens on the nucs so I know it is staying in the hives and not being "shared".


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

wesbeekeeper said:


> I have a 5 frame nuc that is consuming 6 mason jars a day and that is just when I notice they are empty. Im sure they could and would drink more. I open feed and have it set up to where not a drop is wasted. I give them the choice at least. not dumping it unto their hive in July, just seems wrong, but I want to grow fast so im helping.


open feed.... like out in the open?
you are likely feeding "several" hives.
I doubt a 5 frame NUC could take more than a Quart in a day.

I would check inside the NUC if you have in total 2 frames of honey or more, 1) stop feeding 2) add space to the NUC
GG


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## wesbeekeeper (Jul 2, 2019)

Gray Goose said:


> open feed.... like out in the open?
> you are likely feeding "several" hives.
> I doubt a 5 frame NUC could take more than a Quart in a day.
> 
> ...


Update. That 5 frame nuc is now taking 1/2 gallon a day for the past week. And yes I open feed, with only 1 hive I don't worry about robbing. I also work from home and have the feeder right outside my window so I watch them all day. Not 1 wasp or yellow jacket. They are taking it all to their selves... But I have a problem now, they have backfilled to the point the queen is not laying or left the hive. I cant find her and no eggs. so I am not feeding them sugar water for a while.


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## wesbeekeeper (Jul 2, 2019)

I don't have any near by bee keepers, im yet to see a bee from another hive. It would be very easy for me to notice considering I see EVERY bee fly straight back to the hive.


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## wesbeekeeper (Jul 2, 2019)

I have been told that cutting the sugar water will slow comb growth. They managed to draw almost 15 frames in 3 weeks... This was a very strong nuc with a queen laying in virtually every cell. They also had swarm cells when I got them, so they were already ready to draw a lot of comb.


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

wesbeekeeper said:


> I have been told that cutting the sugar water will slow comb growth. They managed to draw almost 15 frames in 3 weeks... This was a very strong nuc with a queen laying in virtually every cell. They also had swarm cells when I got them, so they were already ready to draw a lot of comb.


ok so i am getting mixed messages, 15 frames of bees is not really a NUC, I was thinking you had a 5 frame NUC. If you are in 5 over 5 over 5 I would put them into 2 deep 10 frame boxes placing the most "sugar" filled frames to the top and outside and empty in the bottom center. 
"I have been told that cutting the sugar water will slow comb growth" AND "they have backfilled to the point the queen is not laying"
So both of these cannot be true today, So the bees build the comb (needing to be feed at this point is debatable) then they "fill" the comb. So once you had the comb build and "partially" filled, like 20-30% feeding is no longer "needed". Once they get past 50% full you either need to split or add space, feeding them at this point is not "recommended" 
If they swarmed which is possible/likely with the over feeding, filling most of the available Cells , then you may be in between the swarm leaving and the new queen starting to lay. at this point you will need to determine if you have a queen and how to keep them from swarming again.

And I have a hard time with the 15 frames using a 1/2 gallon of syrup a day. If you are feeding 1:1 that is almost a frame a day in 15 days the hive is filled, 2:1 would take a bit longer, like 30 days. If they swarmed the swarm likely is also feeding on the open feed. 

BYW I am in the camp of never feed syrup. Now you have several frames of capped Syrup, it would work for bee feeding I guess. It is not honey FYI
Also please update your profile with location data, some areas do have dearth so all advice has localisation.


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## wesbeekeeper (Jul 2, 2019)

I got the 5 frame nuc 22 days ago. and they were averaging 1/4gal a day for first 2 weeks and last week was a 1/2gal mason jar a day. I don't think they swarmed because there are so many bees on all the frames, I just don't know what they are doing becuase there isn't any larvae to take care of. just every freakin cell has syrup in it now.


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## wesbeekeeper (Jul 2, 2019)

ya the syrup honey has no flavor, but it can be healthier for the bees than some honey. at least they don't have to filter it, so it will be used as feed of course. I am from little rock, AR located right by BEE PARADISE two rivers park. Has a garden of trees just for starters that has hundreds of different trees that bloom year round, and a hundred acres of gardens, with 1000 acres of clover, wild flowers and lots of other resources. so probably not going to be the same for y'all . only reason I fed sugar water was to speed up comb drawing and to make sure they got a good kick start.


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## wesbeekeeper (Jul 2, 2019)

they are have completely drawn out 2 deep boxes now, they stared with 5 frames drawn, so they did 15 frames in 22 days


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

wesbeekeeper said:


> I got the 5 frame nuc 22 days ago. and they were averaging 1/4gal a day for first 2 weeks and last week was a 1/2gal mason jar a day. I don't think they swarmed because there are so many bees on all the frames, I just don't know what they are doing becuase there isn't any larvae to take care of. just every freakin cell has syrup in it now.


So add space, foundation if that is all you have. IF you can get an extractor, you could pull 6 full frames and extract, put the empty in the center of the bottom box. O and quit feeding


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

IMO honey is better feed for bees that any syrup, and other thread perhaps


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## wesbeekeeper (Jul 2, 2019)

haha ya defiantly going to quit feeding, I just hope the queen is still in there, they haven't made any queen cups, but or course there is no eggs, so really hope she is still there.


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

wesbeekeeper said:


> ya the syrup honey has no flavor, but it can be healthier for the bees than some honey. at least they don't have to filter it, so it will be used as feed of course. I am from little rock, AR located right by BEE PARADISE two rivers park. Has a garden of trees just for starters that has hundreds of different trees that bloom year round, and a hundred acres of gardens, with 1000 acres of clover, wild flowers and lots of other resources. so probably not going to be the same for y'all . only reason I fed sugar water was to speed up comb drawing and to make sure they got a good kick start.


Right, but once the combs are drawn then the danger is they pack them full of syrup. BTW it take about 7 pounds of honey to make 1 pound of beeswax.
Do you have a super you can add?


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## wesbeekeeper (Jul 2, 2019)

I wasn't expecting to be extracting this year so I haven't got an extractor yet, just goin to have to up cap and try to shake out? Im not sure how to get it out.


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## wesbeekeeper (Jul 2, 2019)

Ya I have a super I can throw on, just wanted to save it for fall honey. but they need some empty frames at least. I just don't want them transferring that syrup into my fall honey supers.


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## wesbeekeeper (Jul 2, 2019)

Wow that would explain where all the sugar water I have been feeding is going, of course other than every cell of the brood frames, but didnt realize it was such a large resource puller


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

wesbeekeeper said:


> I wasn't expecting to be extracting this year so I haven't got an extractor yet, just goin to have to up cap and try to shake out? Im not sure how to get it out.


That is not going to work well, I would just go buy another deep, put it in the center of the 2 you have. next spring you should have enough bees and drawn comb to split. Can you get an extractor on loan from a local club. if shaking worked there would be no need for extractors  Your bees "NOW" have enough stores for winter, they need comb space. If you are lucky they will eat some of that "Syrup" to make the next deep of comb and free up some space that way as well.


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## wesbeekeeper (Jul 2, 2019)

Ya I hope they do, but I have a feeling that is unlikely they will touch the capped syrup. overfeeding sure makes them drawn comb quickly but doesn't do you much good if they fill it full of syrup and you cant get it out. I may be able to borrow one to extract some. I guess if you are prepared to just extract the syrup it is a good way to get a lot of drawn comb, id pay the .50 a lb for sugar for drawn comb all day long. Just need an extractor now


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## wesbeekeeper (Jul 2, 2019)

assuming my queen is still there, it could have 'killed' the hive. May have to buy another queen and a brood frame.. will update next week when I check again.


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

wesbeekeeper said:


> Ya I have a super I can throw on, just wanted to save it for fall honey. but they need some empty frames at least. I just don't want them transferring that syrup into my fall honey supers.


they will transfer some, and that is one of several reasons I do not feed. you have no way of knowing if they moved stores (syrup) or brought in new honey. You may just need to pitch in and help them eat some of it  lesson learned for next year. Just label it early honey "Cane" flavor can use it for baking or cooking.


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## wesbeekeeper (Jul 2, 2019)

I mean I could have easily monitored the syrup consumption and prevented them from storing any, I just let them have as much as they wanted... Wasn't a good idea, which makes sense because its not natural for them to be able to bring in that amount and so quickly. So they take the approach take it while its here and make babies later, well at least thats my theory


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## wesbeekeeper (Jul 2, 2019)

but I agree , I hate the idea of the syrup possible tainting my honey.


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## wesbeekeeper (Jul 2, 2019)

if I do feed in the future it will be smaller amounts and I will allow them to drain their reserves before I give more, instead of just letting them pile more and more syrup into the hive. I just got so excited seeing how much comb they had drawn out.


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

wesbeekeeper said:


> I mean I could have easily monitored the syrup consumption and prevented them from storing any, I just let them have as much as they wanted... Wasn't a good idea, which makes sense because its not natural for them to be able to bring in that amount and so quickly. So they take the approach take it while its here and make babies later, well at least thats my theory


Right, most normal bloom is short term, soon goes to seed, so they haul it in while they can. Your feed/bloom just was the gift that kept on giving.
Also good idea.. monitor till combs are built/mostly built then stop the feed. If you really have 1000 Acres of clover nearby then the feed was not necessary.
IMO feed during dearth only.


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## wesbeekeeper (Jul 2, 2019)

Ya unlimited recourse, but it is almost a mile away. I know they will find it eventually, maybe already have but that was my main concern


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## wesbeekeeper (Jul 2, 2019)

but I do have 15 acres of wild yellow flowers 800 yards from my house that I just saw yesterday so that should help too. they look like mini black eye Susans, still cant figure out the name of them, but they are everywhere here in Little Rock, AR , all down the roads


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## wesbeekeeper (Jul 2, 2019)

https://onlyinark.com/homegrown/wildflowers-of-arkansas/
this is the flower if someone could help identify it.


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## wesbeekeeper (Jul 2, 2019)

http://uacdc.uark.edu/work/clearings-clusters-and-cloisters-a-garden-of-trees

this is the park a mile away from my home.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

wesbeekeeper said:


> https://onlyinark.com/homegrown/wildflowers-of-arkansas/
> this is the flower if someone could help identify it.


Looks indeed as Dark-eyed Susan - bees ignore it as useless.
In fact, bees will ignore most all native July-blooming flowers as useless since there is not much nectar from them to waste the effort (outside of later blooming goldenrods and asters and maybe sunflowers).
I got hundreds of glorious looking prairie around here right now - very pretty, but useless.


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## wesbeekeeper (Jul 2, 2019)

GregV said:


> Looks indeed as Dark-eyed Susan - bees ignore it as useless.
> In fact, bees will ignore most all native July-blooming flowers as useless since there is not much nectar from them to waste the effort (outside of later blooming goldenrods and asters and maybe sunflowers).
> I got hundreds of glorious looking prairie around here right now - very pretty, but useless.


Its not dark eyed Susan as I stated in the previous comment. They are much much smaller, depressing the bees cant use it?


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## wesbeekeeper (Jul 2, 2019)

that picture I shared was the wrong flowers, but I just realized what I am seeing is aster


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## wesbeekeeper (Jul 2, 2019)

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/444800900693761318/


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## wesbeekeeper (Jul 2, 2019)

GregV said:


> Looks indeed as Dark-eyed Susan - bees ignore it as useless.
> In fact, bees will ignore most all native July-blooming flowers as useless since there is not much nectar from them to waste the effort (outside of later blooming goldenrods and asters and maybe sunflowers).
> I got hundreds of glorious looking prairie around here right now - very pretty, but useless.



It is called golden tickseed.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Regard-less of all the "pollination" rants - Eurasian honey bees will not use the flowers unless it is worthwhile to *them*.
Most all flowers are not worthwhile to spend the time and energy on - no matter how pretty they may seem to humans.


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## wesbeekeeper (Jul 2, 2019)

GregV said:


> Regard-less of all the "pollination" rants - Eurasian honey bees will not use the flowers unless it is worthwhile to *them*.
> Most all flowers are not worthwhile to spend the time and energy on - no matter how pretty they may seem to humans.


I can see that, simple physics I guess. I thought about how many of those flowers it would take just to =1lb of total mass, and it would take a ton, now a drop of nectar from each one, I can see how it wouldn't be worth their time.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

A drop or two of nectar is all they collect per flower. I think the figure is something like 2 million floral visits to make one pound of honey. Make you realize just how hard those bees are working to fill your honey jar.


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

Another metric the bees use well is the gain or loss per trip. IE If it take 40 calories to go on a mission to collect 35 calories of nectar they will not do it. If they use 35 calories to go on a trip to collect 50 calories then it is worth the trip. They normally will go 2-3 miles, 5 miles in a dearth. However the farther they go the better the nectar needs to be. They do not make trips with no gains. with parks and such there is also trees some have nectar or pollen.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

JWPalmer said:


> A drop or two of nectar is all they collect per flower. I think the figure is something like 2 million floral visits to make one pound of honey. Make you realize just how hard those bees are working to fill your honey jar.


Yep; drop by a drop.
The important thing to realize - many flowers do not produce even a drop, to bother with them. 
I got lots of cup plants, the Susans, coreopsis, and such - right outside of my windows - pretty flowers/useless as honey bee forage.
Volunteer mint and oregano, on the other hand, the honey bees do love.


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## hagane (Aug 15, 2015)

When people use mason jars in their nucs upside down...I've seen that in videos a lot, but I'm still a newb.

I worry about how do you make sure it doesn't spill and leak water all over in their hive?


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

hagane said:


> When people use mason jars in their nucs upside down...I've seen that in videos a lot, but I'm still a newb.
> 
> I worry about how do you make sure it doesn't spill and leak water all over in their hive?


put the mason jars into an inner cover, place a deep over the top with the normal lid. the pictures are for show,  just use 2 covers and a deep.
then worry about the Ants 
GG


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

The holes in the lid of the mason jar are small, I use my staple gun to make them. The syrup will only come out as the bees consume it or the jar heats up and pushes some of the syrup out. One reason that most people place the jar inside a hive body and cover it.


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## wesbeekeeper (Jul 2, 2019)

Gray Goose said:


> Another metric the bees use well is the gain or loss per trip. IE If it take 40 calories to go on a mission to collect 35 calories of nectar they will not do it. If they use 35 calories to go on a trip to collect 50 calories then it is worth the trip. They normally will go 2-3 miles, 5 miles in a dearth. However the farther they go the better the nectar needs to be. They do not make trips with no gains. with parks and such there is also trees some have nectar or pollen.


Well after almost a week of not feeding sugar water some amazing things happened. They moved all the honey from brood area and QUEEN IS LAYING AGAIN!! Also noticed they seem to have used that excess sugar water to draw comb like crazy. They were more productive over the past week than any other. As was I because I acquired 3 more hives! Just thought I would share the results


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## wesbeekeeper (Jul 2, 2019)

Also got one for everyone. I recently did a cutout from an old metal can, I did the cutout right behind my other hives. They were feral bees, much smaller bees. It was about a single deep if not more worth of bees, got a gallon of honey off of them, I did the cutout like most do on youtube and didnt leave any honey inside as per advice from more experienced keepers. 

What seems to have happened though is all my other hives picked up a lot of bees. Like 80% if not more made their way into other hives, what would cause this and is there something that can be done to avoid this in the future? I guess I shouldn't have done the cutout so close to other hives. Didnt think they would just up and abandon ship.


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

wesbeekeeper said:


> Well after almost a week of not feeding sugar water some amazing things happened. They moved all the honey from brood area and QUEEN IS LAYING AGAIN!! Also noticed they seem to have used that excess sugar water to draw comb like crazy. They were more productive over the past week than any other. As was I because I acquired 3 more hives! Just thought I would share the results


good news, sounds like a step in the correct direction. If your new 3 hives have one or 2 with low amounts of stores, you can equalize a bit by moving a frame of "syrup" to the lowest stores hive and boosting them a bit. Do be aware swapping frames between hives can spread bacteria and virus. SO be sure to have an idea of hive health of the donor hive.


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## wesbeekeeper (Jul 2, 2019)

Awesome thanks for the advice, the new hive is the strongest I have personally ever seen. I did a 5 frame split from them, and within the week they already had all 5 frames drawn out so I added a super!


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## wesbeekeeper (Jul 2, 2019)

When I opened the new hive up to inspect before purchasing I could not see any frames, comb, the walls, ceiling, floor, nothing was visible, I don't understand why they hadn't swarmed yet. Just packed every inch with bees.


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

wesbeekeeper said:


> When I opened the new hive up to inspect before purchasing I could not see any frames, comb, the walls, ceiling, floor, nothing was visible, I don't understand why they hadn't swarmed yet. Just packed every inch with bees.


They can get that full. It can be a challenge to find the queen cells when they are that full. the split would mean each part needs enough stores for making the winter. Have fun, now you can compare a bit. Insure in 4 weeks both 1/2s are queen rite unless you introduced a new queen to the NUC you created.

Check out the attached pick , this is the bottom box of a 2 box hive there were at least 14 queen cells on the frame bottoms, some are covered with bees but several are visible. This bottom glance is a good initial way to see if you have queen cells for swarming.


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## wesbeekeeper (Jul 2, 2019)

I allowed them to be queen less for 12hr and introduced a queen, within a few seconds the entire nuc was fanning. I gave it another 24hrs and just let her go inside the nuc, could have been a very bad decision but only time will tell. I should have just been patient and allowed them to free her.... but I could tell they accepted her just hope they didnt kill her though. Or I should have just released her like backyard bees does on day one after you see them accept her. I was afraid with more time in the cage they may start to get frustrated or leave back to the mother hive becuase I didnt put much capped brood or larvae. I wasn't going to put a wall to wall capped brood in there for something to go wrong, just wasn't going to happen.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Feeding constantly can seriously stunt the growth of a colony as the queen has no where to lay. Usually they will end up swarming when they don't have enough bees to do so.


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