# How long do you wait



## Widdy (Jan 12, 2012)

How long after a queen starts laying do you wait before you start grafting from her eggs? I know things like brood pattern and how friendly her workers can be are a deciding factor, but how do you determine any of the other traits.

Because of how well I killed all my queens last year during inspections, I would like to produce a few queens to put into nucs just in case.

David


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

I currently graft from breeder queens obtained from breeder queen sources. I have considered selecting some of my own production queens as breeders, but haven't done it, yet. I understand that breeder queens are usually selected, as breeders, after, at least a year of observations to determine their suitability as breeders.

I'm sure that each queen breeder has their own selection process - which would be unique.

Earlier, and for my own purposes, I have also raised daughter queens, from production queens - this is very easy to do, and would probably suit your purposes.


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

if your a mass production southern producer who has taken prepayments from 2 1/2 years ago { with a few missed shipping dates} and have advertised that your no treatment queens are north pole survivors and are mite proof then the answer is about a minute and a half.


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

David, there are lots of good books on the subject. I don't think most of us have the resources to take a large number of queens, and then objectively identify which are the best on given criteria, but how much does it matter? I want a stock of bees that produce enough bees in time for the main honey flow, and are gentle enough that they won't seek out my kids as they play in the yard. 
To that end I moved away from the descendants of MH queens as they seem to become progressively more aggressive, and have descendants of NWC stock mixed in with a few from a trap-out I did. Bear in mind that 50% of the genes are coming from the community unless you are drowning the area in drones. 
Michael Bush, and others say that a well mated queen of average genetics does better than a poorly mated queen of superior genetics - or something like that - I like that idea. 
For me it is a matter of convenience, replacements are within the apiary. I also subscribe to the "good enough if plenty of" idea, most bee stocks are likely to be good enough to gather a crop if there are enough of them at the right time. 
I imagine beekeeping is like surfing in that the nectar flow is like a wave that runs through the year, and you have to be ready to catch it and ride it. It matters not if you have the best genetics in the world if you don't have enough bees at the right time. Sorry I went on a bit, caffeine is the culprit.


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## Widdy (Jan 12, 2012)

Thanks for all the replies.

I like the idea of having a few extra queens around just in case I do something wrong and kill one. Right now I have 3 hives trying to make it through the winter and a package on order just as a back up. I hope the three I have make it and I can use them to make my queens from.

Is it worth it to order a queen or two and use them as egg donors for future local queens, or just using the queens I have now if they make it through the winter?

After putting grafts into a cell starter/finisher, can you add the cages over the queen cells that they will hatch into and will the workers feed the queen through the cage? If a queen somehow escapes the cage can she kill the other queens through the cage?


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## Brandy (Dec 3, 2005)

Mathesonequip, that's a good one!! I take it you drank some of the kool aid also!!

Widdy, good luck, use the best of what you have. They're already tested.


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

brandy....not too much cool aid yet. but keep in mind that "treatment free" does allow stuff from china that says on the foil pac " respirator and hazmat suit must be worn, hive will glow in the dark for more than 500 years" since you and i do not know how to read obscure chinese dialects this stuff is allowed as "Treatment Free" especialy if used at 12 times safe doseage. safe dosage is 2 to 3 times what is used in china for " organic" honey, you know the stuff they get out of dead chemical burned hives.


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## Widdy (Jan 12, 2012)

Is it worth it to order a queen or two and use them as egg donors for future local queens, or just using the queens I have now if they make it through the winter?

After putting grafts into a cell starter/finisher, can you add the cages over the queen cells that they will hatch into and will the workers feed the queen through the cage? If a queen somehow escapes the cage can she kill the other queens through the cage?


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