# Bees will not take sugar water



## W. Peters (Mar 27, 2008)

I am a first year bee keeper. I purchased two hives last spring and they seemed to do well. Last fall, one of the hives began producing a higher than average quantity of brood - so much so that the hive swarmed in the first year! No one I talked to had heard of this happening. But it wasn't too bad because a lot of the bees stayed behind and I thought that there was more than enough to make it through winter. I fed each of the hives a galon of syrup with Fumadil-B, which they eagerly accepted, and waited for winter to be over. This spring, when I opened up this hive, there were very few bees left, the combs were stained with fecal matter, and dead bees were scattered throughout the hive and piled in the bottom of the hive. I did find the queen and saw that she had layed about one frame full of eggs. However, at this point, I'm not sure it will make it. Through various readings on the subject, I am concerned that my bees have nosema c. So I decided to give them a spring feeding with Fumadil-B. However, after a week, neither hive has touched the stuff. The other hive is alot differed. It has quite a few more bees left and does not have the stained combs. So I am hopeful that this hive will pull through, but the fact that they will not dring the sugar water is of concern to me, and I am afraid that if they do not, they will go the way of my other hive. Does anyone have any suggestions on what I should do?


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## Morris (Oct 12, 2004)

*sugar water*

What has the weather been like in your area? If it has been too cold, perhaps the bees are unable to process the sugar water.


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## stangardener (Mar 8, 2005)

the word i have heard is the treatment must be poured directly on the bees once they have stopped feeding due to nosema c. this forces them to ingest the medicine.


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## W. Peters (Mar 27, 2008)

I live in Kansas and we have been having highs of 60-70F deg. for the past week or two. Dandolions and Daphodiles are starting to blossom. And the trees are all budded out.


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## R.L.Bee (Feb 11, 2008)

I have found that if you have nector coming in they won,t take the suger syrup.I've had some on a hive for close to a month and they havn't taken but a small amount of it.


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## BigDaddyDS (Aug 28, 2007)

W. Peters said:


> Dandolions and Daphodiles are starting to blossom.


There's your answer!

It's not that it's too cold to take down light 1:1 syrup, but it's that you've waited too long to feed. Now they have a REAL nectar source. Why would they settle for second best?

(And don't pour syrup on your bees... Geez! I know first hand that they don't swim for nothin' and a wet, sticky clump of bees is no good to anyone.)

DS


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## W. Peters (Mar 27, 2008)

The only problem with this thinking is that I have noticed very few bees taking flight, even in the afternoon with the sun is high. It is like they don't even feel like venturing out of the hive. I would expect there to be alot more activity than there is currently. Sometimes, there is not a bee in sight or on the landing board.


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## peggjam (Mar 4, 2005)

Warm the syrup a little, no more than 80F, put it in a spray bottle and spray the cluster couple times a day. Keep the syrup on the hive, but maybe warm it up for them. Once they have cleaned up the sprayed on syrup, they might start to take a little syrup from the feeder until they can fly enough to bring in fresh stores.


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## Brandy (Dec 3, 2005)

Don't know how old your syrup is but I've had a couple small colonies that did not take the syrup as fast as some of the larger hives. In that time period with the variations of warm and cold there was some mold that developed over a couple weeks. Thought the colony was just too small to take the syrup, but in looking at it, it had started to mold. So, now if a colony won't take syrup I replace it with new. Try to give the smaller colonies quantities that they should be able to take in quickly.


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## Morris (Oct 12, 2004)

*feeding*

Is the cluster of bees very close to the feeder? If not how far?

Morris


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

W. Peters said:


> ... I have noticed very few bees taking flight, even in the afternoon with the sun is high. It is like they don't even feel like venturing out of the hive.


If the worker population is very low and the queen has been laying, it could be that the bees are locked to the brood and are not able yet to spare enough workers to venture too far outside of the cluster. 

I don't think you mentioned how you are feeding them, but if you haven't already done this, add an empty box above the top brood box and put an inverted jar of syrup on the top bars, directly over the cluster. Assuming that the cluster is up to the top bars, this should help them to be able to take the syrup without leaving the brood and cluster.


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

Mike Gillmore said:


> If the worker population is very low and the queen has been laying, it could be that the bees are locked to the brood and are not able yet to spare enough workers to venture too far outside of the cluster.
> 
> I don't think you mentioned how you are feeding them, but if you haven't already done this, add an empty box above the top brood box and put an inverted jar of syrup on the top bars, directly over the cluster. Assuming that the cluster is up to the top bars, this should help them to be able to take the syrup without leaving the brood and cluster.


I think Mike hit the nail square. I haven't seen much flight either and I am sure it is because the bees are incubating the larva. And for not taking the syrup, they probably don't need it if they have adequate stores.

The dirty hive sounds more like dysentery to me.

W.P., send me a PM if you would like me to stop by one evening. I'll be in Vegas the first part of the week, but Thursdays are generally good for me.


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## Jeff Gratton (Mar 8, 2007)

*Nosema Cerana*

This week I attended Sue Cobey’s class on queen rearing at the Harry Laidlaw Honey Bee Research Facility. On the second day of the course Eric Mussen gave a lecture on some of the findings concerning bee health and CCD. Some of the things noted were the physical effects and differences that Nosema Cerana has on the bees verses Nosema Apis. One of the main differences between the two was the failure of bees to feed when infected with Nosema Cerana. This makes it difficult to treat with fumagillan. If the bees aren’t eating they won’t be ingesting the fumagillan. To overcome this, it was recommended to treat by spraying light sugar water with the appropriate mix of fumagillan directly on the bees. The bees will ingest the fumagillan when they try to clean themselves off. During the course Sue received some packaged bees to be used for queen rearing purposes. We tested these for Nosema to find out what the levels were. These packages were from separate suppliers and were received at different times. Both had high enough levels of Nosema to require treatment.


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## W. Peters (Mar 27, 2008)

Morris said:


> Is the cluster of bees very close to the feeder? If not how far?
> 
> Morris


I've tried both an internal feeder and a boardman feeder. In both cases the bees were only a few inches away. Plus, the temperature is such that they should be ventering away from the nest now.


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## db_land (Aug 29, 2003)

W Peters
I suggest you mix fumagillon into light sugar syrup and add a teaspoon of honey-b-heathy. Lightly spray all bees in both hives (the obviously sick hive and the apparently healthy hive). Remove and bleach wash/soak/spray (cup of bleach/5-gallons water) and sun-dry any unused frames in both hives. If you have the equipment, replace existing hive boxes with new (or recnetly washed/scorched boxes.


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## Troy (Feb 9, 2006)

db_land,

Do you have evidence to suggest that bleach water will kill nosema c. spores?

If so, please share this info. 

Please tell us the source of the info, and the specific concentration of bleach, soak time, air dry time etc.......

Thanks


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## onlygoodSHBisdeadone (Sep 10, 2005)

If stronger hive has say 7-8 frames with bee cover and frames of sealed and unsealed brood I'd pull a frame of sealed brood and place in weaker hive beside frame with eggs and larvee. Just be sure its sealed brood and not larvee as they will not need the attention of nurse bees and will be able to tolerate cooler nights. They will hatch out in short order and give hive a good boost.


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## mcgarry (Nov 4, 2009)

Troy said:


> db_land,
> 
> Do you have evidence to suggest that bleach water will kill nosema c. spores?
> 
> ...


Troy- did you get an answer to the question about bleach and nosema? Two years ago while in California in the almonds I learned that another commercial was putting a gallon of bleach in each 250 gallon plastic tote but I've lost his name and can't followup--I've been doing it also- haven't noticed evidence of nosema but haven't checked with a microscope to confirm. I'd appreciate any info you may have. thx


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## AllTek (Apr 22, 2009)

A nice technique to get the bees feeding is to add just a few drops of spearmint essential oil in your sugar water. They find it and eat it every time.


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