# Increasing from 100 to 1,000 hives in three months.



## HVH (Feb 20, 2008)

BEES4U said:


> Here's an interesting paper that uses Caspian solution:
> Pleas read and make comments.
> http://www.apimondia.org/apiacta/slovenia/en/yeganehrad.pdf
> 
> Ernie


I was in a hurry and found the link a bit hard to follow but I couldn't find any controls. Did they use a "no" Caspian control?


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## peacekeeperapiaries (Jun 23, 2009)

interesting article. Im gonna read it again later when I have more time
certainly seems viable, i wonder how many of those hives over wintered.


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

I doubt very seriously that this actually happened. One is that they are saying that all 20 frames had both brood and eggs. I don't know about you guys but in most of my hives the center frames have brood and eggs while the outer frames have pollen and honey. Sure the odd hive will have brood everywhere but this is not the norm. Plus their numbers don't add up. They state they were able to create 900 colonies using 17 frames from 100 colonies. Well, that is an average of 1.8 frames which doesn't add up. I also question the ability of enough bees to be able to cover that much brood and have forgers.


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## habutti (Apr 20, 2008)

The way I understand it is that the hives must be doubles (either deeps or mediums they do not specify) but the key thing is that hives should be strong enough to cover 20 frames. They are pulling 3 frames out with the old queen and reading closely those frames have no brood; in other words they are not stating that all 20 frames have brood. Somewhere in the document I also read that they purchased 100 frames of brood. Basically they did 2 frame-nucs, fed the heck out of them, 5 days later added 2 frames of brood and continue to feed like crazy. I think they would have gotten this off the ground faster using mated queens, but of course that would've increase the cost of the project significantly.
Is this doable? most definitely; but it is not an endeavor for the lazy and/or the short on financial resources.


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## Trevor Mansell (Jan 16, 2005)

Iv e made thousands of hives and millions of dollars on paper. Its easy the bees do all the work ,right?


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## Naturegoods (Mar 12, 2010)

Interesting paper, makes 5 hives to 20 seem doable in the spring. They did turn 100 strong hives into 1000 five frame nucs though, and not much brood to go around. That was supposedly on July 1, I too wonder how many built up and overwintered, forget about any honey crop but it was a rebuilding year.


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

I can't say that I've ever heard of Caspian solution before . . . am I missing the boat on that one?

I would also like to know how well they overwintered. 

I can't imagine a two frame nuc turning into a 20 frame booming hive by spring of next year. In that sense, it isn't like you are increasing from 100 to 1,000 hives in three months, you are really turning 100 to 1,000 hives in a year and three months.


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## habutti (Apr 20, 2008)

Naturegoods said:


> I too wonder how many built up and overwintered


If they fed the heck out of them and treated accordingly, I am sure most if not all made it to Spring.
This is very doable, I create two frame splits all the time with my excess queens. But 900 at a time? I am not there yet.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

Her's some older postings about the Caspian Soloution:
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229268

Ernie


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## habutti (Apr 20, 2008)

I believe it is his proprietory blend he sells for $5 per hive. But why not just contact him directly http://www.caspianapiaries.com/ and get all the info straight from the horses mouth so to speak.


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

BEES4U said:


> Her's some older postings about the Caspian Soloution:
> http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229268
> 
> Ernie


Thanks Ernie,

After reading that link, doing a google search, and searching this site, I still can't find Caspian Solution available, nor can I find out what makes it so great. It sounds like Royal Jelly + pheromones + preservatives. As far as I can tell, the build-up of colonies in this study depends on the use of Caspian Solution. Without knowing what the stuff is, being able to try it out, or reading about anyone else's success with Caspian Solution, it sounds more like "magical solution" than a supplement.


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

Naturegoods said:


> Interesting paper, makes 5 hives to 20 seem doable in the spring.


Ive gone 2 to 20 this year. If all my splits made I would likely have 35 or so. Always a gamble, never 100%. Never the less, good article. If all beekeepers had the good fortune these folks did the beekeeping industry as a whole would bee in better shape. 

Mike


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

How many of those 20 do you think will overwinter? I know your winters arn't as bad, but still 2 to 20 is a big expansion. 

What happened to the splits that didn't make it? How did they fail?


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

Specialkayme said:


> How many of those 20 do you think will overwinter? I know your winters arn't as bad, but still 2 to 20 is a big expansion.
> 
> What happened to the splits that didn't make it? How did they fail?


No idea how many will winter. 

The nucs were started with bought queen cells. Some didn't make it on their flight, some I do not know what happened to them. When I did queens, some were not accepted, one died in the cage, etc.

Mike


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## 123456789 (May 24, 2009)

I would have thought that bees continually fed a pollen sub and syrup would expand at the maximum possible rate. :scratch:


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

123456 said:


> I would have thought that bees continually fed a pollen sub and syrup would expand at the maximum possible rate. :scratch:


That is what I do. Mostly syrup.


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## Tim Stewart (Jul 19, 2009)

This is sort of like what I do. I would imagine that instead of a "Caspian Solution" you could use syrup, pollen sub, and http://www.mannlakeltd.com/m23Search/DisplayResults.asp?sIDSearch=114785 to have a similar effect. I only use pollen sub in the spring build them up, then when I am taking honey, rip through the broodnest, and make as many two frame, nucs as possible, often 5 to 7. In 2008 I experimented with it and giving laying queens around July 20 was able to build up hives on foundation to weighing 50-75 pounds of bees, wax, and stores by he middle of October. Overwintering is usually as good as most other colonies. When doing this there's no need for might treatments, the bees build up faster than they can. The nucs were only given syrup, averaging about 11 gallons each. Doable? Yes. Expensive? Yes. Time consuming? Not to bad with fifty hives but much worse with 1000.

This year I am using pollen sub on my nucs so that competition for resources isn't as bad. At an outyard where i had 20 hives some nucs just couldn't get the pollen they needed. I am also going to balance broodnests between my hives coming out of butternut squash with the nucs to give them a good kick at it. Another useful thing is spreading broodnests during the heat of August. Combined with the protein and syrup, this really stimulates brood production when you need it.

Tim Stewart
Stewart's Apiaries


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## BeeBelieve (Aug 5, 2010)

Hi everyone,

I'm sitting with the owner of Caspian Apiaries right now, and the maker of Caspian Solution. If you would like to contact him, his e-mail is [email protected] or [email protected]. 
Regarding this article, Hossein has increased from 50 to 500 hives, 100 to 1000 hives, 20 to 200 hives, and many more times throughout his beekeeping in the last 25 years. 
The reason Hossein doesn't respond much on these forums is because, first, English is his 2nd language and he isn't good for writing too much. Second, he believes that beekeeping isn't about talking, and more about proving to almost every individual beekeeper. Third, he has proved AFB disease control in Canada with 4% of antibiotics requirement in North America, and with no antibiotics and instead with bacteriophage.
He has treated over 20,000 hives since year 2000, but still the government and commercial beekeepers don't pay much attention to him. 
In 2008, Golden Eagle farm (owned by the owner of the Canucks hockey team), lost all 2700 of its hives through amoeba and protozoa diseases. Basically, Canadian specialists couldn't recognize the diseases and were recommending that Golden Eagle radiates all of its equipment. Hossein was introduced to the farm by Golden Ears Apiaries (Jean-Marc LeDorze, whom is a customer of Hossein's Caspian Solution for the last 10 years), and Hossein treated all the hives without any radiation by using his Caspian Solution and natural biocontrols. He believes that the 2700 dead in one season is similar to CCD. By February 17, Golden Eagle bought hives to recover their bees: 500 hives from Golden Ears Apiaries, 200 more from other beekeepers by March, and by early May, 900 nucs from Golden Ears Apiaries. By May 20th, 2800 hives were able to produce 280 drums of honey in Alberta, Canada. The summer losses were 10% for the queen loss problems, and for winter losses there was 1%. The hives were so strong, that by February 26th, 2010, Hossein made 1500 divisions by buying queens from Chile.
Presently, he runs 2400 hives himself, and manages 3500 for Golden Eagle Apiaries. 
Regarding increasing the number of the hives,
a)if a colony has protein deficiency, 10 frames of population cannot raise 3 frames of brood. When a colony has really bad protein deficiency, this will effect the queen's semen in her spermatica and she will have spotty brood in which she will need to be eventually replaced either by the bees or the beekeeper. Bees will also have a very low immunity to diseases, etc. when protein in the colony is low. But, if a colony has very good nutrition by natural pollen and honey flow, 3 frames of population can raise 2 frames of capped brood
b)by knowing a), conditions have to be created for bees to have proper nutrition
c)proper nutrition for bees to be able to produce worker jelly and royal jelly means that bees need to consume pollen, not any other protein supplement. Other supplements do not have the same effect
d)for bees to be able to consume protein, they need to receive pheromone from the larva. That's why queenless hives, or wintering hives, don't consume pollen even if they have lots in the frames of pollen
e)naturally, protein consumption happens when there is pollen and honey flow from nature. When bees consume that, their mandibular glands produce royal jelly and they feed the queen. When the queen receives an extra amount of royal jelly, she will lay eggs, and a cycle begins for brood production and pollen consumption once again. With Caspian Solution, beekeepers don't have to depend on nature. Instead, you can create that by feeding royal jelly and pheromones to the bees, and the bees will consume an extra amount of protein/pollen, and brood production begins.

Hossein is planning on having the product available in USA shortly. Caspian Solution is used for: queen introduction with 100% effectiveness all year, wax production, AFB disease control with 100% efficiency, queen breeding & production, brood production, semen production in drone bees (for artificial insemination and natural mating), amoeba, protozoa, nosema a., & nosema c. control, etc.

I hope that clears up any questions. If you have any more, feel free to comment further, but we may not have time to respond quickly. Otherwise, you can contact Hossein Yeganehrad directly at [email protected] or [email protected], or even more directly at 1.604.338.4522. He is always happy to talk.

Regards, 
Kelsey and Hossein


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

BeeBelieve said:


> proper nutrition for bees to be able to produce worker jelly and royal jelly means that bees need to consume pollen, not any other protein supplement. Other supplements do not have the same effect
> d)for bees to be able to consume protein, they need to receive pheromone from the larva. That's why queenless hives, or wintering hives, don't consume pollen even if they have lots in the frames of pollen


Can you expand on those thoughts more.


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## BeeBelieve (Aug 5, 2010)

Keith Jarrett said:


> Can you expand on those thoughts more.


Hossein's profession is in royal jelly production and bee nutrition. He has tried over 20 different protein supplements and tested the amount of fat absorbed in the bees' abdomens. None of the protein supplements makes the bees able to absorb 50% as much as pollen can. Some of those protein supplements can have side effects on the bees as well. Especially in a cold climate and early spring, constipation problems may occur. Also, at the end of winter, when we start to feed the bees with pollen and cake to produce brood, if protein doesn't give any result on brood production, you will lose your field bees because of low brood production. If you have proper protein/pollen available, the only way bees will consume pollen is when the queen is laying eggs. And the only way the queen will lay eggs, is if she is fed an extra amount of royal jelly. The pheromone in Caspian Solution gives the larva a pheromone signal to the bees to consume more pollen, even though there is no larva in the hive for bees to feed. Basically, it tricks the bees to produce worker jelly and royal jelly so that they have to feed the queen and begin brood circulation. After the queen has started laying eggs, and there's no pollen for the bees to consume, they will use 13% of their weight that is made of protein to feed the larva. They will also throw out the larva so that they have less to feed. This is how protein deficiency begins in a colony.

You can see some pictures on Hossein's website, www.caspianapiaries.com -> INFORMATION -> HOSSEIN NUTRITION for how the jelly should look inside the cells when using Caspian Solution

Regards,
Kelsey


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

BeeBelieve said:


> . He has tried over 20 different protein supplements and tested the amount of fat absorbed in the bees' abdomens.


All the subs on the market today have very little fat, mine is the highest at 9%, with sterol, 24-methylene cholesterol . See Randy Oliver's web site for lab results showing fats on pollen subs.Lipid concentration in pollen sub should be at 5-9%.

Thanks for taking the time to answer questions.
Keith


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

double post


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## hossein yeganehrad (Aug 31, 2006)

Keith Jarrett said:


> All the subs on the market today have very little fat, mine is the highest at 9%, with sterol, 24-methylene cholesterol . See Randy Oliver's web site for lab results showing fats on pollen subs.Lipid concentration in pollen sub should be at 5-9%.
> 
> Thanks for taking the time to answer questions.
> Keith


hi,
when i say fat absorbed, what i really mean is the amount of protein that is absorbed in the bees abdomens. That is a symptom that we call "fat" but it is really protein and can be identified by a microscope. By December, if bees have 5-8% fat absorbed like that, it means that 10 frames of population can raise 3 frames of capped brood with no pollen. Or, if we have 6-10 percent in May or June, it means 10 frames of population can accept 50 grafts. And queen cells can be capped in 4-6 days. But, if the protein level is 8-12%, the same grafts can be capped in 3-4 days. But different genetics have different levels of absorbing proteins. Usually black bees or high elevation bees, or bees surviving in cold climates have an ability to consume more protein and pollen, have more jelly production, more immunity, and have a longer lifespan. This is a very interesting subject, but you can have more than 15 pages of information. 

thank you for your information. i would be happy to be in contact with you.

regards,
hossein


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

:thumbsup:
Sterol, 
24-methylene cholesterol.

Very well stated

Ernie


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