# Orchard poisoning issues



## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

Hi Shannon;
In California where we have had so many issues with insecticides and bees, your apiary must be registered oin order to seek compensation, as the PCA and PCO must both consult the county bee map and notify keeps within 1 mile. By the same token, even if there is no notification process in your county I think the PCA has the responsibility to check for bees presence prior to app. Obviously they knew the bees were there. Did they notify you?

Out here they use liquid Sevin to thin the set, applied during latter part of bloom period. 

Get samples of dead bees and have them analyzed if you are serious about it.

Unless they admit liability, you are going to have to prove your problems are their fault. And how can you be sure anyway?


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## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

The owner told me he sprayed and no he didn't call me........lesson learned. I've done this guy a favor the last 3 years and charged him way below current pollination prices cuz the bees make honey there........well the had in the past.


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

Is there a spray notification system in your county?

Of course non toxic materials don't require notification.


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## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

No spray notification. The person that sprayed is the person who hired my pollination services. I will just bill him for the strawberry pollination for all 32 hives since he failed to tell me the apples were done because he wanted my bees longer for his strawberries.


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## soupcan (Jan 2, 2005)

With honey at the $1.70 and up price for semi loads, I think many people will see the light ( at least beeks ) that this orchard
pollinating monkey business is just not worth it!
Lose just one box ( shallow @ 25# ) due to spray damage and it soon becomes real easy math as to what your going to do to change in your operation.
The orchard owner has one mind set & that is $$$$$ & that comes 1st & foremost way before your well being or your bees well being.
I had a smaller orchard owner some time back get real upset with me because I refused to bring him bees in the spring.
He had a very compelling arguement I must say. And that was that I was a beekeeper & had bees he was not a beekeeper & had no bees & because he owned the orchard & due to that fact I owed him my bees for his pollination. Good luck collecting for your loss.


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## Gord (Feb 8, 2011)

I'd take him to small claims court.
It's easier than you think, and affordable.
It's your best chance for a fair outcome.
I'd also bill him for the strawberries.


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## summer1052 (Oct 21, 2007)

I have a "handshake agreement" I have people sign, vs. an actual, attorney drafted contract. It spells out what we expect from each other. I am specific that no herbicides or pesticides are to be sprayed without giving me 24 hours notice. I also state that if for any reason at all, the hive dies, is poisoned, or is 50% or less than it was when I brought it over, I am to reimbursed $400 per hive, period. I have not yet had to call anyone out on it. I *HAVE* had people call double check about using chemicals of any and all variety. Mission accomplished. 

It's after the fact now, I and don't know how much you can do. But for future reference . . .

Good Luck!
Summer


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## HONEYDEW (Mar 9, 2007)

summer1052 said:


> I am to reimbursed $400 per hive, period. I have not yet had to call anyone out on it. I *HAVE* had people call double check about using chemicals of any and all variety. Mission accomplished. Summer


You wouldn't have any contracts around here with this agreement, the beekeepers that came from other countries would undercut your price till you had nothing left.......


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

if the person doing the spraying has a pesticide applicators liscence, then he must keep record of what he sprayed and when. when I had the same problem I called the dept of ag pesticide people and the bee inspector and showed up the next day and took samples(important that someone witnesses the sample takeing other than your friends), they did the analysis, took pictures and went after the applicator. would have done well in small claims court if the bee inspector had done his job and give me a write up on the damage. but you will probably need all the above to have a chance of winning. next year tell him you'll be there with a smile on your face and bees, but drive buy and put your bees in your honey yard, good revenge doesn't help the bees but makes me feel better some times.


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## Apiator (Apr 8, 2011)

I have to wonder sometimes.

How long are beekeepers going to put up with this? How long are you going to take those contracts, and write off those losses, because you won't take a stand?

It would be lovely if beeks would get together, and refuse to pollinate crops for growers who won't go organic. Talk about market forces!

My old man grew almonds, peaches, apples, pears, apricots... for decades... in California... without a single chemical. It can be done, with half a brain, and a willingness to shift paradigm.

But as long as some of you guys will drop a truckload of bees off on the farms of these jokers who spray liquid death willy-nilly, they'll keep doing it.

It will only be when you collectively decide that those growers need you more than you need them that 1) you get to keep more of your bees, and 2) Americans get to eat healthier food.


Wake up, commercial beeks. You have a decision to make.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

If you talked tro the orchardist and they aren't willing to make things right, you will have to take extra steps, such as Court, to realize any satisfaction.

Education is expensive. And, unfortunately, you are paying double for learning that this guy is not a responsible pesticide applicator. His tanks should have been cleaned before putting a different chemicval in his sprayer.

Best of luck. Get what proof you can and get your State Apiarist involved and others too.


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

Shannon has not offered any evidence that the grower is responsible for his problems. He didn't even say that there was sevin in the tank, just that the same sprayer was used, this is very common, they don't have separate rigs for each material. The longer bees are left on site after pollination is done, the greater the chances of damage from many sources.


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## Bud Dingler (Feb 8, 2008)

its common knowledge in the apple business that you hit the trees hard with an insecticide at petal drop. Sevin an insecticide is also used to thin off the apples to reduce the load on the tree. Sevin does not last long as an insecticide so most orchard use a longer lasting product like Imidan which is also lethal to bees

typically orchards are in a hurry to get the bees out so they can spray at petal drop. i find it hard to believe there was no discussion of this with the orchard. 

spray timing is crucial in the apple business.


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## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

The evidence is in the bees. As for hard legal, stand up in court evidence? MAYBE. All my yards are busting with bees except this one. All other yards had at least 2 supers avg of honey on them at that time that they made in the previous week and a half . This yard had less than 1/2 a super avg. This orchard is near the same type of forage as many other yards. Many hives in this yard were making supercedure cells that by appearance would coincide with the time frame of the spray(2-3 days after the spraying was done). When i opened these hives they were void of bees. Unlike most all hives in all my other yards that were overflowing with bees and they are stacked 4'-5' tall. Many hives in this yard that had honey in the supers had very few bees in the supers.

That's enough evidence for me!


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

What does the orchard owner say when you talk w/ him about this? Or have you?


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

Beeslave said:


> That's enough evidence for me!


but not even close enough for a court. if you don't have bee samples and the tests on the bees that can be verified against his spray records you will be wasting your time in my opinion. when they tested my bees after a spray, it exactly matched what the orchard sprayed, still without a write up from the bee inspector that the hives were damaged and to the extent that they were damaged still didn't end up in court. and in the end It would have cost me more than I would have gotten.


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