# Entrance Size and Location for Swarm Trap



## Cleo C. Hogan Jr

I don't know about others, and perhaps you have no old, used, deep boxes, but... I have had far better success with old equipment that has old wax, and propolis, than I have with new equipment. I often purchase old equipment at auctions just to use as swarm traps. You can even take two shallow supers, stack them, and put deep frames in them. Doesn't matter if the equipment has holes, broken rabbets, ill fitting tops, etc. I have just found old equipment works best. cchoganjr


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## Charlie B

Good advice from Cleo. Seems like there are many that are building new swarm traps when a crappy used nuc or hive box(s) will work much better. Just screw down a piece of plywood for a floor and drill a 1 1/2" hole center front. Plywood piece for a top and you have a really good trap.

Size is debatable. (Just search this forum). I use 8 frame deeps and mediums and found they're attracted to both. Odfrank uses nucs and caught 50 swarms last season.


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## Michael Bush

I don't think location matters at all, especially if it's up in a tree. A reasonably small entrance seems to work better than an overly large one, but most of all lemongrass essential oil seems to overcome any objections.


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## beyondthesidewalks

Cleo C. Hogan Jr said:


> I have had far better success with old equipment that has old wax, and propolis, than I have with new equipment.


 I'll confirm that(already have in previous posts). My anecdotal observation is that used equipment attracts swarms better than new equipment. Doesn't and hasn't stopped me from using new equipment. It still works when you have nothing else. You have to start somewhere.

I've used 3/4", 1" and 1.25" holes with success.


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## Charlie B

Michael Bush said:


> ...but most of all lemongrass essential oil seems to overcome any objections.


Very true!


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## mgolden

Appreciate the replies and info

I don't have older boxes available, but do have some drawn comb. I did buy some old supers at an auction sale and then decided to burn them because of concern for disease they may have been present. 

Will be trying to avoid swarms, but would like a trap set for any mishaps!


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## beyondthesidewalks

So your goal in swarm trapping is to catch one of your own swarms should one happen? You know the best made plans of the beekeeper are most often thwarted by the bees. If that's the case surround your place with swarm traps so they cannot get away no matter what direction they go. I'm smiling because I've done the same thing. Haven't caught one of my swarms yet but have caught some feral swarms around my place.


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## mgolden

That's not what I wanted to hear!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! At any rate, I have a nice new swarm trap and swarm bees have an option to make it home or not.

During a swarm last summer, scout bees did check out a NUC box baited with pheromone, but used a bee vac(I know with all its down sides of the bee vac thread). Bee vac worked quite well other then a rough flange where there was a diameter change in the pipe - damaged a few bees.


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## beyondthesidewalks

Not a big fan of the bee vac. Not a big fan of the cut out either. Looking to do more trap outs than cut outs but even those are a many visit - lot of work thing. Unfortunately, I'm already committed to 2 cut outs this year. One is at the house of a man with MS. I'll be cutting out of the same location for the third time in four years if the bees make it to spring. I'm going to make sure, at my own expense, that there will not be a cavity for them in the future. Triple expanding foam is my friend!!! I'm definitely not cutting on anyones house if I can avoid it. There's nothing wrong with catching feral swarms instead of your own.


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## Charlie B

Are you guys ready for a little friendly swarm trap competition this year? Not cut outs, not swarm calls, just swarms caught in your own traps. And no it can't be a swarm from one of your own hives but it can be from another beekeepers hive.

What do you say?, I know Jolie Ollie is in.


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## Gypsi

I'm in. Do trapouts count?


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## Charlie B

Gypsi said:


> I'm in. Do trapouts count?


No. It has to be a swarm, not a colony living in a structure that you're doing a trapout or cutout from. The swarm has to be attracted to and move into your swarm trap on it's own without you having prior knowledge of the location of the swarm. (An example would be if you get contacted about a swarm from being on a bee club call list).


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## odfrank

Charlie B said:


> And no it can't be a swarm from one of your own hives but it can be from another beekeepers hive.


So you come home from work and one of the bait boxes in your apiary is full. How are you going to know if it came from your hive or elsewhere?


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## odfrank

The swarms from my yard generally hang in trees even though there are many bait hives to choose from, they don't move there directly. I have seen many swarms fly into my yard, all from the same direction, several gigantic ones. See my Youtube videos, search for JollyOllie8. 

Charlie, I think your swarms will fly across the street and settle in a tree in GG Park. You might try erecting a pole with a black sock hanging from it filled with something and a few drops of LGO. Or bring up a potted tree. They usually land on something tall. You need a landing spot on your rooftop. Or, maybe you learned so much from my lecture on swarm control none of yours will swarm.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr

odfrank...I haven't heard your lecture on swarm control. Maybe you could write it out. Even with everything I do, I know a few of mine will swarm every year. I sell nucs, and I am robbing brood and honey from the brood stock, but even with reduced bees, reduced brood, reduced honey, there will occasionally be one to swarm. I have a few old grass sacks (dark brown burlap) with LGO dropped on it, hanging from nearby trees, they occasionally will go to that. That is an easy catch. Just lay the sack and bees in a deep hive body.

I normally get 15-20 swarms each year in swarm boxes, so, I know I cannot compete in the competition, but I wish each of you much success.

cchoganjr


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## Charlie B

odfrank said:


> So you come home from work and one of the bait boxes in your apiary is full. How are you going to know if it came from your hive or elsewhere?


If you don't know, then it's all good. I'm just trying to prevent cheating from beeks who are on swarm lists and respond to calls to remove swarms. That shouldn't count. The overall goal is to see who has the most attractive traps to swarms.


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## Charlie B

odfrank said:


> Charlie, I think your swarms will fly across the street and settle in a tree in GG Park. You might try erecting a pole with a black sock hanging from it filled with something and a few drops of LGO. Or bring up a potted tree. They usually land on something tall. You need a landing spot on your rooftop.


I've only have two of my hives swarm last July and both landed on one of my garden boxes about 10 feet away that I dripped LGO on. I
don't know if the queens in both cases were to fat to make it across the street or they were lazy or they liked the LGO.

After listening to your presentation at our bee club on swarm prevention, I'm confident that none of my hives will ever swarm again!


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## odfrank

Cleo C. Hogan Jr said:


> odfrank...I haven't heard your lecture on swarm control. Maybe you could write it out.


Charlie just want to see me squirm so he had me speak on swarm control at the San Francisco Bee Club. He gave me the hardest topic so that when the listener's hives swarm they would hold me responsible. I don't know a thing about swarm control and lose many a year. Last year three giant ones landed in my Mexican Locust, the thorniest tree available to them. Read Michael Bush's section on swarm control, it will bring you more up to speed than I can.


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## Charlie B

odfrank said:


> Read Michael Bush's section on swarm control, it will bring you more up to speed than I can.


He's being very modest, it was an excellent presentation and very specific for our area.


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## Mr. C

I'm game for a competition, but I'm sure I'll be smoked. I put out 10 traps last year all up high, all with old comb in old boxes and copious amounds of LGO and I came up blank. Since I'm building new equipment this year my supply of old boxes just increased five fold so here's hoping.


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## LetMBee

Mr. C: Where you hanging things. Find a major drainage, then select a wolf tree (one out alone) close to there. Don't need to hang it up high. Also something that brought 4 swarms into my house last summer when I didn't have any bees here..... Melt wax in a solar wax melter and have a trap hanging in you yard! Worked well.


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## Charlie B

Mr. C said:


> I put out 10 traps last year all up high, all with old comb in old boxes and copious amounds of LGO and I came up blank.


Try placing some of your traps near your existing hives. It really worked for me last year. I placed my traps on my hive stands about 10 ft. from the nearest hive. Caught about one a week for three months. I think there's something about hives that attract swarms. I don't know if it's the smell or the activity or both but as far as I can tell, they like to be around each other. I didn't have much luck hanging traps in trees.


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## Seymore

Charlie B said:


> Try placing some of your traps near your existing hives. It really worked for me last year. I placed my traps on my hive stands about 10 ft. from the nearest hive...I didn't have much luck hanging traps in trees.


So you just set a hive setup out in your yard on a stand...not mounted up???

And when using LGO, just a few drops dribbled inside?

Having had at least 3 swarms issue from 2 hives last year and NO HONEY, I'm setting out traps to catch my own too! Lol. Trying to stay ahead of it all better this year too (must read the MB data!). Had large numbers in my boxes but I think the clincher was the barn construction. All the sawing and hammering, etc. Probably 20 feet from my hives. That's the only reason I knew I had swarms. One fella was a former beekeeper and he called me at work three times for 3 swarms! Recommendation: Don't build new buildings near hives during swarm season!


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## Charlie B

Seymore said:


> So you just set a hive setup out in your yard on a stand...not mounted up???


About 10 feet from my hives, yes. I about 5 drops of LGO on a piece of paper towel inside a sandwich bag with little holes poked in one side of the bag. IMHO, it last the whole season that way.


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## odfrank

Charlie B said:


> . It really worked for me last year. I placed my traps on my hive stands about 10 ft. from the nearest hive. Caught about one a week for three months.


Or it was swarms from your own hives. I caught one on 4/16/11, in a setup to be seen from my office desk . It swarmed again on 6/21/11. Even with this nice young queen it has been fading away this winter.


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## Gypsi

All of the promise of spring, fading away. Kinda sad. But we do the best that we can do, and Deo concedente.


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## Charlie B

odfrank said:


> Or it was swarms from your own hives.


Only two of my hives swarmed and I caught both of those. I'm moving my traps over near an apiary in Saratoga I just
found out about!


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## Gypsi

I've got permission from my friend in the Burleson area to put a trap on her land. Most of my bee club is from the Burleson area. hmmmm...


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## odfrank

Charlie B said:


> *Only two of my hives swarmed* and I caught both of those. I'm moving my traps over near an apiary in Saratoga I just
> found out about!


*Only two of my hives swarmed* Famous last words. Charlie, you are such a nice guy here is a hint for you:

http://www.wbhoney.com/index.html

I can't make it any easier than this. Those are my bees on this site,not theirs.


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## Gypsi

hahaha. Those are some very nice hives there OD - neat, tidy, impressive honey output, some pretty good bees working them, and good "beemanship" behind them... 

The game is indeed "on".


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## LetMBee

I would feel no shame in trapping other peoples swarms. If I would ever have someone ask for them back perhaps we can work out some form of financial agreement. From what I have read in old bee sources from books.google.com the old time "law of the land" was that once a swarm left your property it wasn't yours anymore. I always hang my traps in a location where they cannot be seen easily. 
That being said I have caught more hardy stock from places near where I have heard people used to have bees 20 or 30 years ago, but no one has them around there now. One particular "holler" has several large sycamore trees in it housing bees. Varroa made the beekeeper give up in the late 80's, but there are still bees in them there trees! Once you start "fishing" you will get better at it..... JUST LIKE FISHING!


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## Charlie B

Ollie,

I say we make a midnight run and get your bees back from that kid. :thumbsup:


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## Gypsi

I think Texas is going to have a booming year for bees. Swarm traps all over my living room and dining room right now. And a big one next to a nuc on my lot, where I kept bees last year.

I am appropriating my old super frames just to have something to put in traps. Should I pull the foundation (not that they ever held comb or honey, just wax moths before I cleaned em up and froze them), and put them in foundationless, or should I leave the foundation in them. 

Gypsi
Owner of a newly cleaned up computer.


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## Charlie B

Gypsi,

Pop the foundation out and just use foundationless with a starter strip. If Ollie disagrees, don't listen to him. He can't get his bees to draw straight foundationless comb so he discourages using it. (I think he's just jealous).


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## Gypsi

Can I cut up the foundation to make starter strips? I can only get so many stir sticks for free from home depot without visiting multiple stores. I am planning on having a LOT of bees this year. And it's raining fairly often.


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## Charlie B

Gypsi said:


> I think Texas is going to have a booming year for bees.


You Texans talk a big game, let's see how you stack up against California beekeepers!


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## Charlie B

Foundation strips work just fine!!


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## Gypsi

Charlie B said:


> You Texans talk a big game, let's see how you stack up against California beekeepers!


You ought to see my dining room table. (actually I can't see it, it's full of bee stuff and tools.)

Our spring may start a little later, but not by much....

:shhhh:


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## Charlie B

Swarm season in the Bay Area is starting in two to three weeks (hopefully). Can't wait to show up Jollie Ollie!


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## Michael Bush

>Can I cut up the foundation to make starter strips?

It doesn't last as well and can fall out...

> I can only get so many stir sticks for free from home depot without visiting multiple stores. I am planning on having a LOT of bees this year.

Buy the Jumbo Craft sticks from a hobby store.


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## Charlie B

Gypsi,

Just use a little Elmer's on the foundation strips and let it sit overnight. It won't come out.


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## beyondthesidewalks

I agree with Gypsi. We're quietly building up to a fantastic spring here in Texas. There's still much that can go wrong but if the temps stay warm and sporadic rains continue we are going to have a bumper crop of swarms and honey. I'm trying to be ready. I need to start an account on one of the picture sharing sites so I can post pics of the henbit blooming right now and that bluebonnets and clover that are coming up strong. Monday we have a 70% chance of rain followed by a 50% chance on Wednesday. Hope it keeps up.

Gypsi, a few years back we built a new substation near Burleson and had some bees move into a cardboard box on the site. I had to remove them so the contractor could get the goods out of the box and complete their work. I know there are feral bees in the area. Good luck with your swarm trap there.


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## aunt betty

Ok guys...forget about the trap, used box, new box, hole size, and everything. Location is key and when you find that spot, an apiary that has too many hives for one guy to manage...then you look for that big old rotten house with the t-111 siding or shiplap. Look at the soffits..if it is a bee magnet type of location. set it up and wait. You can catch swarms that easy. Want pictures of a bee house? Send money.


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