# Do bees know their beekeeper?



## kayakbiker (Sep 3, 2014)

Say more than a stranger?


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

I would say yes to that.


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

I would agree as well I have had many greet me as soon as I walk out the door and they dont bother anyone else.


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## kateowp (Aug 11, 2014)

Interesting article from last year: 
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/face-recognition-honeybees/


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Re the facial recognition thing, the stuff I've read on it implies bees can recognise the face of one person to the face of another. But a read between the lines of these articles shows what they really found was bees have the technology, ie, a compound eye, that could do it. They have not run experiments to show bees actually care if one human face is different to another or if they even register it.

I don't think bees have friends, or would consider that one large 2 legged animal that opens their hive is a particular buddy to them, over some other large 2 legged animal they have seen or may be looking at. Appealing as the idea may seem to us, the keeper.


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## Colino (May 28, 2013)

I would think they do, because I've had them buzz around me while working in my yard, but not around anyone else. I think they aren't so much recognizing our faces but our odor.
Colino


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

I think it is anthropomorphism to apply such a belief to bees. After a person has been around bees for a while, one knows how to act to get along with them better. I know which hives to work last if I want fewer bees bouncing off my veil. If I chose not to wear a veil, I would not allow them to live. These are my behaviors, not the bees.


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## woodedareas (Sep 10, 2010)

If they know me they sure don't like me.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

Mine will buzz me, light on my arm. Even my trap out bees, after I spent several hours closing their hive off and setting up the trap hive with eggs, one lit on my arm. Not to sting. But I do think it is odor rather than visual recognition, and I have no earthly idea why they do it, but I have a pretty good idea it is why I like keeping bees. But it may be voice/sound. I also talk to my bees while I am working them, as I talk to my fish while I am working them. 

Years ago I sold a lot of aquarium fish I'd raised, African cichlids, to a doctor's office. The doctor's wife complained after a few months that while she fed them daily they hid from her, but they came to the front of the tank when I walked in the door. Having tested color (my apron was blue, so we got her the same shade of blue) and it failed, the next month I came in the door I didn't say anything, and they didn't come out. As soon as I spoke they were at the front of the tank...


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

I've watched mine orient, and pay particular attention to the unique letters we've put on their hives. I was particularly amused to watch one study a "honeybees sting to defend their hives" warning sign on the apiary fence. It is very clear that they pay close attention to patterns, at least for the purposes of recognizing their homes.

It is clear to most beeks that honeybees don't like dark moviing objects around their hives. I've had them sting me adjacent to my black watch band. They don't like my black and dark grey cameras when they get too close. This is usually explained as a defensive instinct against bears, skunks, and other hive raiders. This suggests at least an ability to identify big mobile hazards.

I've never had a problem with my hives generally coming after me, but I've had individual bees do it. My impression is that a single bee has taken issue with something I've done. In my mind, the anthropomorphization goes "You're the one who squashed my sister, Shirley, and now you're gonna get what's coming to you." The treatment involves repeated agressive bumping, following me a hundred feet or so from the hive. It is always one bee. And once this has happened, it is likely to recur ... just one bee ... when I come close to the hives again. It is, of course, incorrect to apply such a human response to an insect, but it does make sense that bees have the tools to do something of the sort. A bee that has been triggered to respond to a threat ought to be able to recognize that threat if it comes back. And a bee, capable of identifying flowers, that has discovered that a particular large creature frequently carries large quantities of 5:3 sucrose solution might very well come to greet it.


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## divingmikeboats (May 23, 2014)

When I open my hives I hear voices.


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

woodedareas said:


> If they know me they sure don't like me.


:lpf:


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I think they do. Depending on how things have gone in the recent past they may ignore you because of that familiarity or they may attack you because of it...


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## kayakbiker (Sep 3, 2014)

Or also maybe they are like some super fast motorcycles I've had. I respect them and they are a dream to ride. Let a ahole friend ride it and the bike will bite. Crash!! Does the bike have a personality? You bet.


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## Tim KS (May 9, 2014)

I think you're looking for human qualities in an insect. I don't think emotions, instincts or other human traits exist in bees or other animals. We may wish them to be there or they may appear to be there, but they're not. JMHO


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

Tim,

To whom is that directed? I think most of us are talking about physical recognition, not emotion. I admitted to using anthropomorphic analogy, but clearly bees are capable of showing aggressive behavior when appropriately triggered, as well as ignoring the big white bears but going after the food they bring. The question is, do they recognize us and respond accordingly?


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

Call it what you want but All I know is when I was feeding last yr and they were out they would greet me at the door as soon as I stepped outside they weren't aggressive they would just hover and looked like what they do when they orient on their hive. They didn't do this to anybody else in the house when I would fill their feeders it would stop for a few days and then start again and sure enough feeders were empty


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## franktrujillo (Jan 22, 2009)

i believe so because they kiss me a with there stinger.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

kayakbiker said:


> Say more than a stranger?


Sure. Of course they do. Why do you ask?


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

divingmikeboats said:


> When I open my hives I hear voices.


Hey me too. Weired eh.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Harley Craig said:


> Call it what you want but All I know is when I was feeding last yr and they were out they would greet me at the door as soon as I stepped outside they weren't aggressive they would just hover and looked like what they do when they orient on their hive. They didn't do this to anybody else in the house when I would fill their feeders it would stop for a few days and then start again and sure enough feeders were empty


Jerry Bromenshenk at Montana State University did an expirement on this and says it's so. But I don't know if your colonies actually see you as much as the bees in his study saw the person who was feeding them.


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## Tim KS (May 9, 2014)

Phoebee said:


> Tim,
> 
> To whom is that directed? I think most of us are talking about physical recognition, not emotion. I admitted to using anthropomorphic analogy, but clearly bees are capable of showing aggressive behavior when appropriately triggered, as well as ignoring the big white bears but going after the food they bring. The question is,* do they recognize us and respond accordingly?*


They respond accordingly to me or anyone intruding into their business. Whether it's me or the badger during the night, they recognize danger or not and respond accordingly.


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

sqkcrk said:


> Jerry Bromenshenk at Montana State University did an expirement on this and says it's so. But I don't know if your colonies actually see you as much as the bees in his study saw the person who was feeding them.


I turned a package and a nuc into 8 colonies in my home yard 60 ft from the back door needless to say they saw me quite often. I also made the habbit of rubbing the hive near the entrance whenever I was out there as I saw a video of Phil Chandler I believe that said if if do that the bees learn to associate your smell as something non threatening and will be less aggressive toward you not sure if that is the case or not as I still got stung plenty of times if I got in a hurry


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I know some people who talk to their house plants and they respond by growing better. What's going on is hard to say. Can't hurt.


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

sqkcrk said:


> I know some people who talk to their house plants and they respond by growing better. What's going on is hard to say. Can't hurt.


I was once riding with a vegetarian, and looked wistfully at a KFC as we drove past. I asked him why he was a vegetarian. He said he wouldn't eat anything he could talk to. I suggested he'd be in a real fix if he ever started talking to plants.


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## kayakbiker (Sep 3, 2014)

Gypsi said:


> Mine will buzz me, light on my arm. Even my trap out bees, after I spent several hours closing their hive off and setting up the trap hive with eggs, one lit on my arm. Not to sting. But I do think it is odor rather than visual recognition, and I have no earthly idea why they do it, but I have a pretty good idea it is why I like keeping bees. But it may be voice/sound. I also talk to my bees while I am working them, as I talk to my fish while I am working them.
> 
> Years ago I sold a lot of aquarium fish I'd raised, African cichlids, to a doctor's office. The doctor's wife complained after a few months that while she fed them daily they hid from her, but they came to the front of the tank when I walked in the door. Having tested color (my apron was blue, so we got her the same shade of blue) and it failed, the next month I came in the door I didn't say anything, and they didn't come out. As soon as I spoke they were at the front of the tank...


That is cool about the fish. I am glad I heard your story 3 months after I gave my long time fish tank away.


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

Tim KS said:


> They respond accordingly to me or anyone intruding into their business. Whether it's me or the badger during the night, they recognize danger or not and respond accordingly.


An interesting insight related to me recently by a member of our bee club is that it is her opinion that bees seem to have no sense of danger whatsoever. That's an interesting idea, but a bit tricky to test. Her observation is essentially that bees do not, as individuals, seem to perceive danger to themselves. Essentially they are fearless. They can be "curious", they can experience positive reinforcement (in human terms that would equate to "pleasure"), they can become defensive or aggressive, but they don't seem, as individuals, to ever encounter a situation that scares them. She notes that a lot of bees die because of this lack of fear.

They do, of course, apparently perceive threats to the well-being of the _colony_. When they do so they have no regard for their own safety.

It is, of course, wrong to insist that bees experience anything like human emotions. But actually it is equally wrong to insist they _*don't*_. How could we know either way? Behavioral scientists have to be careful about anthropomorphic interpretations of behavior. But if it helps beekeepers get some insight into what motivates bees, its harmless enough. Watch a bee gathering nectar or doing a waggle dance, and if it helps you to think these things make a bee happy, that's how you understand positive reinforcement. And honestly, we don't know that positive reinforcement in bees is *not* because they're happy. And anybody who has worked around them much has also seen behavior best interpreted as "angry." But scared? Think about it. Our emotion of fear may have no analog at all in the bee brain. A hive member may not need it, except for the queen, and we've all seen her run and hide.


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## kayakbiker (Sep 3, 2014)

sqkcrk said:


> Sure. Of course they do. Why do you ask?


I was just wondering. I find myself getting attached to these critters. I thought one hive was a goner do to yellow jackets. I mean after squashing about 30 and catching another 20 in traps every single day for the last 5 weeks, we kind of bonded fighting this war. And we won! Slaughtered the bastards one at a time.

It is funny that I can walk up and open the hives, pour in some syrup and the bees don't even blink. But if my black Lab comes over to watch bees are bouncing off her head in like 30 seconds. Cracks me up every time. I guess shes never fed them?


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## virginiawolf (Feb 18, 2011)

When I had a bunch of hives in my backyard I experienced a number of things. One was that if I was down at the store which is a few streets over bees would buzz right up on me and fly away. I am fairly sure that they were my bees. I think that they must have known my smell like from my clothes and wearing the bee suit in the heat. When my bees were at the farm and I would pull up with feed for them they would smell the feed I am sure but even when I wasn't going to feed them I am sure that they recognized my vehicle. They are producing lots of new bees almost all of the time so those bees in theory wouldn't know us but maybe the other bees communicate something to the rest of the hive about us. I'm not sure but I think that they know us.


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## divingmikeboats (May 23, 2014)

kayakbiker said:


> It is funny that I can walk up and open the hives, pour in some syrup and the bees don't even blink. But if my black Lab comes over to watch bees are bouncing off her head in like 30 seconds. Cracks me up every time. I guess shes never fed them?


Funny. My bess go straight for the base of my dogs tail. He's content to sit and watch from a distant shady spot now.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

kayakbiker said:


> I was just wondering. I find myself getting attached to these critters. I thought one hive was a goner. I mean after squashing about 30 and catching another 20 in traps every single day for the last 5 weeks, we kind of bonded fighting this war. And we won! Slaughtered the bastards one at a time.
> 
> It is funny that I can walk up and open the hives, pour in some syrup and the bees don't even blink. But if my black Lab comes over to watch bees are bouncing off her head in like 30 seconds. Cracks me up every time. I guess shes never fed them?


30 and 20 beetles I assume, not bees?


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## kayakbiker (Sep 3, 2014)

sqkcrk said:


> 30 and 20 beetles I assume, not bees?


Opps I reworded my sentence and left out Yellow Jacket Bastards!


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## Waggle (Mar 7, 2013)

divingmikeboats said:


> When I open my hives I hear voices.


When I open my hives my bees speak in tongues.


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## MadR13d (May 16, 2015)

"And a bee, capable of identifying flowers, that has discovered that a particular large creature frequently carries large quantities of 5:3 sucrose solution..."

When I was feeding my newly caught swarms, their flight patterns towards coming back to the hives seemed to suggest that they noticed when I arrived to fill the bowl, got excited, and the bowl would fill up with feeders faster than at the beginning.

On a more esoteric level, my first bee sting from these bees was on an acupuncture point that corresponds to the lungs. (Their way of telling me to quit smoking? To quit smoking them?) Also, the first piece of extra "wall" comb I removed was shaped a lot like lungs.


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## lemmje (Feb 23, 2015)

Thanks for bringing this thread back to life. A friend of mine recently asked if my bees were "so nice because they know me". I said it was because i have learned how to work around them, but maybe there is something to this, maybe they know my smell or my visual pattern and associate me with the thing that brings them food and generally makes life easier for them.

I still get stung, was stung yesterday on the underside of my bicep -- which really swelled my arm, more than i have ever swelled -- but it seems i can work around them and not be bothered a lot more than anyone else who tries.

Like Pavlov's dogs, who is being conditioned by whom?


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## crocodilu911 (Apr 17, 2015)

kayakbiker said:


> Say more than a stranger?


no they don't. they can smell your bee suit, as something belonging in the bee yard, since we tend to wear the same clothes as we work them. other than that, there is no connection there. 

they hate alcohol smell, dog smell, horse smell, perfume, dark colors, black in particular. the fact that you feed them has nothing to do with anything. 

my wife noticed how different i move when i am around y bees, i do not notice, but she said you can see it. i move smooth, to put it in her words, even when i am doing what seems to be brutal deeds, like shaking frames or boxes....she sais i am smooth 

another thing if, the more you open a hive, the more they are used to be messed with. also depending on your bread. Italians, buckfast, brother Adam, Minnesota hygienic, and others are mild breeds, compared to Africanized or even the pure Russians or the Spanish and French black bee. it depends on their behavior. 

in conclusion, no, they do not know us as opposed to a stranger or anybody else. they are not dogs , cats or any other mammal, fish etc., that might have those social needs, as to identify something and memorize it. a dog needs to know his pack, a cat her enemy, a horse his rider. a bee with a 30 day average life cycle, does not need to know anything other that that smell means alert, that smell means food, this means alert passed, this color is danger, etc. 

on the other hand, i tell EVERYBODY that asks me this question: "hey, do your bees know you?" i say to them, " yes, of course they do."


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## lemmje (Feb 23, 2015)

crocodilu911 said:


> in conclusion, no, they do not


Citation needed.

Not disparaging what you are saying except that i do not have a bee suit and do not wear the same clothes so do not smell "as something belonging in the bee yard".

Not saying they know me per se, but how can you so quickly dismiss something you don't know? 

As Lois C.K. said: How can we know? We're humans, we cannot see even 100 yards ahead of us.... (paraphrased)


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## crocodilu911 (Apr 17, 2015)

Well, when you work bees for as long as i have, you learn that it's all about behaviour. I worked them on 3 continents and i know they don't know you. You can also find JH Christ's face in a wood stump, but that don't make it a miracle. It's just sugestion and what we want to belive. I am 4th gen beekeeper, i grew up on the back of a beetruck and after 90 years of keeping bees, i can say i am not quick to dismis it, ii have some family thistory related to these insects.


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## sweatybetty (Apr 24, 2015)

crocodilu911 said:


> another thing if, the more you open a hive, the more they are used to be messed with.


i was wondering this very thing.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

If dealing with an aggressive strain, the more you open them the worse they get. The gentle ones don't seem to mind so much, hives I use for breeding and cell raising may get opened several times a week and doesn't bother them.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Oldtimer said:


> If dealing with an aggressive strain, the more you open them the worse they get. The gentle ones don't seem to mind so much, hives I use for breeding and cell raising may get opened several times a week and doesn't bother them.


I would agree, OT. There is another component to this and that is the proximity to neighboring hives. I would say the "memory" of a secluded hive is 48 to 72 hours but if you are disturbing a pallet "mate" it resets the clock every time they are disturbed. We run 100+ large cell builders in a fairly small space for nearly 2 months each spring and are into most of them almost daily. They start out the spring fairly docile but within a week you enter that yard without a veil at your own risk.


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## Guletsi (Jun 24, 2015)

In my husbandry experiences, on small scale, I have found that animals go by smell, vibe, and habit more than anything. My livestock, as well as our pets learn our schedule, habits, and recognize our vibe. They learn territory. They learn who or what else lives in the territory. If I'm in a hurry or agitated, you can bet they will be too. Or at the very least, make my job more difficult because of my agitation. I have learned to let their reactions to me be my ice breaker and it helps me relax. With the bees, I am so new, but have already noticed that they respond to me sometimes before I am even aware my vibe has changed. I have found the verbal ques with animals is more for people than the animals. Body language and your mind set is the only communication most animals need. As far as bees go, it would make sense to me that if carbon dioxide agitated them, then talking to the bees might not be such a great idea. At least I read carbon dioxide agitates them. Highly domesticated animals want your attention, they know their food and affection comes from you and they know you are the leader of their pack, clowder, flock, gaggle, herd or whatever. The less domesticated animals show me respect by ignoring me in their space and I give them respect by getting in and out as smart and as quickly as possible. They learn my smell, habits, schedule, and vibe. They learn I am not a threat and they tolerate me. I can hang out and watch after my chores, and sometimes I might be asked to scratch behind an ear. I have gone and sat in the bee yard to watch, they check me out, then move on to business. Once I really shook a frame by accident trying to get it loose. I think every bee on that frame swarmed my head. I stepped back and took a deep breath, turned around blew it out with my anx. I calmed down, turned back around and went back to work, the bees left me and went back to the frame. That leads me to believe that perhaps more than visual, or even smell, certainly more than hearing, they are intuitive. They know my intent. They feel my vibe. And are willing to tolerate me if I beehave. I certainly believe they have the capacity to let their human know it's feeding time like someone mentioned earlier in the thread. Heck, what doesn't!!!!! I will say though, when any living female has offspring to protect, that's an immediate game changer, and the air is more volatile, and I must be much more sure footed and calm. Bees certainly have a few offspring to protect. Much more often than other types of livestock. I am loving the learning!!!!!


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