# Missouri Environmental Public Health crack down



## Hoot Owl Lane Bees

This is something that ALL Missouri Beekeepers need to be concerned about.
At the fall Missouri State Beekeepers Association meeting we had a breakout session titled “Keeping Bees and Selling Honey in Missouri: 
I was not in this session as I was in a Queen rearing class.
*The following is a part of a report in the news letter about this session.
*

(( First came a spirited discussion about the definition of “food processing”, which a couple of questioners defined, in the conventional
way, as the making of a food product by mixing or modifying ingredients - leading them to wonder what it has to do with the
bottling of pure honey. The Health Specialist however, defined the term much more broadly to include virtually any handling of a food product.
As such, she said, “honey processing” is subject to state regulations requiring an “inspected kitchen” - except in cases where the product
is to be sold directly, and in person, to the end user. What difference does it make, someone asked, whether it’s sold directly or indirectly, when it’s the same honey, in the same bottle, with the same label? The Health Specialist responded that if you sell directly to the consumer, he or she can ask you questions about the product. But even then, she added, the law requires the product to contain a label stating that it was not inspected by the state. 

As for honey processing, it isn't just bottling, said The Health Specialist; it begins at the point when a frame is uncapped. “So it doesn't apply to comb honey?” one man asked. Actually it does, she clarified, as you are cutting the combs out of the frame for packaging.
“So Ross Rounds are okay?” someone else asked, noting that these are self-contained and would thus fall outside that definition. Nope, came
the reply - just removing it from the hive counts as processing, as that exposes it to an environment where it could become contaminated.
All stages of the operation, therefore, need to be conducted in an inspected kitchen.
She was then asked about picking apples from a tree; isn't that food processing too? No, she said, as the apple is still the same as when it
was on the tree. Packaging of uncut fruits and vegetables does not fall under guidelines on food processing; only once they are cut do they
become subject to regulation.

Regarding the criteria for such an “inspected kitchen”, The Health Specialist did say that it was not the same as the “certified kitchen” required in a restaurant or bakery. Through a series of questions, we established the following stipulations: The kitchen can be located in one’s home,
but must be separate from the primary home kitchen, and must include a separate hand-washing sink, washable walls and ceiling,
and a floor drain. If a separate building is used, it must include its own bathroom, and all sink and floor drains must be connected to a proper sewer or septic system.

Someone in the audience asked the same question I had asked during my first phone conversation with The Health Specialist: Why the distinction between the product I sell direct and what I sell through a third party, when it’s the same honey? She gave him the same response she’d given me that the direct buyer can ask the seller questions about that honey. I didn't get it then, and I don’t get it now. ))

*This is NOT the complete report only parts, there is allot more.*

This means I *cant* extract my honey at home and sell it in containers for resale or bulk with out having to pay someone else to do it. 

( All stages of the operation, therefore, need to be conducted in an inspected kitchen. )
According to what was stated they are wanting us to move our hives to the kitchen to remove suppers.

I don't know were to go with this but it has me concerned!
I am going to start by contacting some of our state reps but I'm not sure how to go about what to ask or say?
Thoughts?


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## Rader Sidetrack

My suggestion is to get honey added to the Missouri "Cottage Foods" rules. See this link:
http://www.house.mo.gov/billtracking/bills121/billpdf/intro/HB1508I.PDF


However, see this document:
http://agrimissouri.com/pdf/fmhandbook.pdf

particularly page 24 about a "facilities exemption" for those selling honey and less than $30,000 per year gross sales.


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## Hoot Owl Lane Bees

Thanks Rader
It's close to what we need for honey but it prohibits selling for retail and the internet.
But it does give me some place to start.
Jim


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## Michael Bush

In my experience, the other illogical part is that I can extract it in my kitchen, put it into buckets and sell it to the guy with the certified honey house who them packs it in bottles (in his certified honey house) and then sells it to the grocery store. That is fine, but I can't sell it to the grocery store if I don't have a certified honey house... so what makes it safer because the guy with the certified honey house touched it?


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## Hoot Owl Lane Bees

> In my experience, the other illogical part is that I can extract it in my kitchen, put it into buckets and sell it to the guy with the certified honey house who them packs it in bottles (in his certified honey house) and then sells it to the grocery store. That is fine, but I can't sell it to the grocery store if I don't have a certified honey house... so what makes it safer because the guy with the certified honey house touched it?


If the Health Specialist get there way we wouldn't even be able to do it that way. We will have to take our honey to a (certified kitchen) to have it extracted before we can sell it for resale.

*The Health Specialist suggestion was that local bee clubs host extracting days at approved sites where members can all extract honey together. So, someone asked, can members extract their honey into food grade buckets that day and bottle at home as needed? No, she said, all bottling needs to be done in an inspected kitchen as well.
*
Can you imagine what this would be like?


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## jdmidwest

I have tried very hard to keep the process as sanitary as possible, but I can never get the girls to wash their feet before they spit the honey out into the cells. And the bug screens on the hive entrances fail to keep ants and flies out of the hives during the manufacture process.


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## KCWildman

And don't forget to collect and remit sales tax, and declare the revenue as income.


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## Vance G

And the nice sanitary lady from the guvmint in her clean brown shirt will be glad to help with all of it. Laws are made to protect the public. No regulations referred to in this whole posting takes one step toward that end. It is all about empire building and government control.


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## odfrank

>My suggestion is to get honey added to the Missouri "Cottage Foods" rules.

The Cottage Food permits here cost the small beekeeper hundreds of dollars a year.


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## Michael Bush

>Can you imagine what this would be like?

Yes. A nightmare.


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## Hogback Honey

If you haven't seen the film, "Farmagedon", you might want to rent it. The Govt is becoming too much of a control freak. "Food, Inc" is another good one.


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## mtforge

Reminds me of what happened in Indiana. My in-laws were small farmers with a few dairy cows that produced grade B milk. The old milk cans. Made into cheese and such. The government stepped in with regulations about refrigeration, what kind of system to use, what kind of building to store the milk in. The processors quit picking up their milk and they sold the cows. Now we have only large outfits producing milk. I can see honey going the same way. For our protection of course.


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## Michael Bush

The other can of worms all this inspecting opens up is, in my experience, inspectors think it's their job to find something, so they hunt until they do. Rather than looking at the big picture of cleanliness and competency they nitpick. It's almost better to make sure you have some minor infraction that is easily and immediately remedied where they can find it so they can pretend they did their job.

Another can of worms is when more than one agency decides it's their job. We now have the local health dept, the state health dept, possibly the state dept of agriculture, the USDA, the FDA and homeland security involved in protecting the public from bad food processing and then OSHA making sure the employees are protected from dangers. I knew of a dairy that ended up being shut down because OSHA said they couldn't have bare tile floors because they were slippery and noisy and the health department said they had to have tile floors because they could be cleaned sufficiently. I know of a beekeeper who was told to put screens on windows that could not be opened (by homeland security no less). When he protested that they could not be opened he was openly threatened with being shut down if he argued.

So not only do we get bogged down in one bureaucracy, but caught between as many as seven bureaucracies...


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## D Coates

I got a call from the Missouri dept. of Health 2.5 years ago. They wanted to tour my honey production facilities. I told them it's my garage on July 4th weekend and Labor day weekend. The lady told me they can't work on the weekends so we'd need to work something else out. I told her I don't know what she's going to see. My equipment (all stainless) is cleaned and put away in storage unless in actual use and we've already gone over when that is. She said because I am selling to retail facilities I fall under their jurisdiction. If I was selling direct to the consumer (like a farmers market) I no longer fall under their control. Not only did this spook me it got my brain cooking on how to get out from under their regulations without blowing my weekends at farmers markets.

Fast forward 1.5 years and I put up a nice honor stand and ceased all wholesale sales. My margin is much higher and I'm still selling out. About 6 months ago I got a call from a man from the MO Dept of Health again asking to tour my facilities. I told him that I spoke to them 2 years ago and as per our discussion I am no longer selling wholesale. He said it was 1 year ago and he still needed to tour my facilities. I told him to double check his records as it was 2 years ago and the woman I spoke with indicated that if I sold direct to the end user in a Farmers market fashion I am no longer under their jurisdiction. He said the woman is his boss and it was indeed 2 years ago. He said he wasn't sure about the wholesale versus retail health code certification requirements but would double check and call me back to me immediately if he found that I was incorrect. 

I've not heard back from him and sales in my honor stand continue. Flipside, I did get ripped off of about 30+ pounds of honey Dec 11th for the first time since opening it over 1.5 years ago. It's still something I recommend to sideliners who like operating in the financial black. I made my little company an LLC (to shield myself) and I do make sure to report the income and pay taxes on it.


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## VitaminBee

Scary. Coming soon to a state near you, Ima guessing!


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## Michael Bush

>Flipside, I did get ripped off of about 30+ pounds of honey Dec 11th for the first time since opening it over 1.5 years ago.

Probably the "Christmas spirit"... someone looking for presents for all their friends...


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## D Coates

Michael Bush said:


> Probably the "Christmas spirit"... someone looking for presents for all their friends...


It could have been that and it's sad for whomever did it. Honestly it looked like some teenagers did a grab and dash. They grabbed all of the more expensive things and knocked a few things over in their haste. Nothing broken or damaged but they were in a hurry. What made me even check was one of the doors was open. They are held closed via magnets and I'd never seen it before. Then I noticed a burn out in the dirt in front of the stand. I had restocked the stand the evening before so I knew exactly what was in there and the lock box was empty.

If you're going to do an honor stand it's always a risk. I chalk the small thefts it up to a cost of business. I tell myself they needed it more than I did and move on. Life is simply to short to let others dictate your mood. Since opening I've easily had +/-750 visitors to the stand and I loose about 2-5% (usually single 8 or 12oz bears) but overall it's been a rousing success (both in meeting new customers and getting my beekeeping finances in the black). This one was a bit different and actually hurt a little (emotionally, not financially) but again I'm not going to let a single bad apple ruin my day.


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## Michael Bush

I always figured if I did an honor stand, I'd set up a game camera or two very small well hidden video cameras, one aimed where you would see the car and hopefully the license and the other on the inside to see what they take and what they leave. A game camera might do the job almost as well.


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## max2

America, the country of the free. I'm starting to doubt it.
I extract with Stainless Steel into Food Grade plastic into glass.
We sell at farmers markets and bulk to some of the most prestigious restaurants/caterers.
So far, so good!


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## eccookbees

as a beekeeper I make a phone call to somebodyI guess you might say he was in the know of what was going on. He told me that you people need to be taken care of. I guess this is what he meant by that statement!


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## D Coates

Michael Bush said:


> I always figured if I did an honor stand, I'd set up a game camera or two very small well hidden video cameras, one aimed where you would see the car and hopefully the license and the other on the inside to see what they take and what they leave. A game camera might do the job almost as well.


I've got a few but they're useless in the big picture and a court of law. It's just to make semi-honest people think twice. A real thief won't even think once. The cameras can't prove who did what unless I've got clear video from multiple angles. There are multiple transactions everyday. There's no way to tell who paid what. I'd have to spend more on surveillance equipment than it cost me to make the stand then I'd have to waist my time trying to track them down and take them to small claims court. This is assuming they didn't steal the even more valuable surveillance equipment. Remember it's got to be right in their face thus be relatively exposed to theft or damage. Video cameras in your face aren't real inviting for a cute honor stand either.

When all is said and done it wouldn't even cover my costs (especially time) to pursue the dirt bag(s) who stole the $300+ (list price) worth of product. I'm at peace with that and it's a risk you've got to accept if you're going to operate an honor stand. At the end of the year the net income an honor stand offers versus wholesaling offers is substantial (% wise) and pitch black. Spending my time (especially time) at farmer markets competing with the beekeeper(s) who may or may not have any idea of what their costs are, much less what they need to charge to show a profit for their efforts is not my idea of fun.


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## jbeshearse

Hoot Owl Lane Bees said:


> This means I *cant* extract my honey at home and sell it in containers for resale or bulk with out having to pay someone else to do it.
> 
> ( All stages of the operation, therefore, need to be conducted in an inspected kitchen. )
> According to what was stated they are wanting us to move our hives to the kitchen to remove suppers.
> 
> I don't know were to go with this but it has me concerned!
> I am going to start by contacting some of our state reps but I'm not sure how to go about what to ask or say?
> Thoughts?


Okay, I’ll play the devil’s advocate: 

Say I produce 20 drums of honey. Now I am cheap and don’t buy new food grade drums, but a guy on craigslist is selling burn barrels for cheap. Yeah they don’t have lids and I don’t have a clue what was once in them. But I can spray them out with a water hose with a little bit of dishwashing detergent, good as new. I can just put a couple of pieces of cardboard over the tops until I want to bottle the honey. So now I want to bottle some for my wholesale customers. So I have to pour some over into my bottling apparatus. Hmmmm what can I bottle with and how do I transfer it? That old drum fuel pump will work, just need to clean it out. Now I pump it over into my trusty galvanized garbage can with my ½” brass ball valve bottling tube. Now I am ready, no wait, I need jars. Fortunately I have about 200 plastic bear jars that past customers have returned to me. If I wash them it will mess the labels up, and you know honey is antibacterial anyway. Plus, that honey still in the jars just means I get to sell it twice, you know this is wholesale and my margins are small. I cull out those that look used. Re-fill them, heck I go all out and even put a new tamper resistant cap on them. Tada- Retail honey… Sure glad I don’t have to bee inspected…..

While we may all do the right thing, there are always those that don’t or won’t. The rules are there for a reason. While they make it more difficult for those of us who follow the correct sanitation and handling procedures, there are those that won’t. I once heard of a lady that made fantastic cakes and cookies that she brought to all the church pot lucks. A visit to her house showed a vermin and roach infested kitchen with little heed to sanitation. Let your imagination run wild.


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## WLeeH

jbeshearse said:


> I once heard of a lady that made fantastic cakes and cookies that she brought to all the church pot lucks. A visit to her house showed a vermin and roach infested kitchen with little heed to sanitation. Let your imagination run wild.


A few roaches and some cat hair in your cakes is probably the least disgusting thing you have ever put in your mouth. If you eat out anywhere, I guarantee you have eaten worse. It's not like the health inspector is standing over their shoulders 24-7 

Inspections aren't a big deal really, it's really just more of a pain to coordinate with them. Guvm't people need Guvm't jobs ya know.


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