# Swarm Trap complete!



## Keth Comollo (Nov 4, 2011)

Would only allow me to add three photos so here is the last one . . .


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## Keth Comollo (Nov 4, 2011)

Next season will by my first attempt to bait a swarm. I plan on building about 5 of these over the winter.

According to the research that Seely did a standard 5 frame nuc is on the small side for attracting a swarm. You may consider building some boxes that strap on top of your nucs to give them about a 40 liter capacity for best success.


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## max2 (Dec 24, 2009)

Lovely job, Keth!! Let us know how you go with this approach.


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

How many liters is a standard 5 frame deep nuc? Or a medium nuc?


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## Keth Comollo (Nov 4, 2011)

A standard 5 frame deep nuc is 22.866 liters. About half the size of what seems to be most attractive to the bees.


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## Risky Beesness (Dec 29, 2010)

Setting swarm traps is sort of like setting trout lines for fishing. Nothing like walking upon one and seeing bees flying. You will be glad you sized it for a standard frame. It makes it easy to transfer to a hive. I started with 10 frame traps and switched to 8 frame, which is very close to the 40L that Sealy subscribes.


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## Keth Comollo (Nov 4, 2011)

Yes, I am a trout fisherman and this is just a natural extension of that. I don't expect anything but if I get a swarm I will make sure to tell everyone it is bigger than it really is!


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Keth Comollo;731787According to the research that Seely did a standard 5 frame nuc is on the small side for attracting a swarm. [/QUOTE said:


> The bees in my neighborhood did not read Seely's research. About 50 of those illiterate swarms move into my five frame nucs every year. This swarm should have read the book, they wouldn't have tried to fit in this 5 framer.


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## Keth Comollo (Nov 4, 2011)

Great photo! At 22 liters a five frame nuc is on the bottom edge of acceptable. If it works for you then keep at it. I just built to the most accepted size to increase my odds.


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

I have about a dozen of those around the neighborhood. And they have yet to catch anything. Seems like there are not as many swarms out there as there once was.


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## Keth Comollo (Nov 4, 2011)

I believe that. Michael Palmer lives just north of me and I believe he recently said he hasn't caught a swarm in years. It is a crapshoot but a fun diversion.


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## divemaster1963 (Nov 28, 2011)

EastSideBuzz said:


> I have about a dozen of those around the neighborhood. And they have yet to catch anything. Seems like there are not as many swarms out there as there once was.


Try setting your traps near a source of water and flowers. the best location set a trap is go to the rivers in your area go to the southern side ( try levies) setdown near some wildflowers during lunch and look around. set the traps facing south away from the tree lines. they seem to like isolated trees and a high of 6 to 10 feet .

go luck 
john

I have found 10 wild hives near a levy and plan to set traps out starting in late feb.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

If I make more I will make 8 frame size. I would not make special boxes, but just use 8 frame deeps with a thin bottom and top, and a disc entrance.


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

I used old "already lived in" 8 frame mediums that lured 12 swarms over the summer.


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

After reading Seelys book I did have a question about the hive size. He said 40 liters was just enough space for a hive to fill out and get enough honey into to make it through the winter. That makes sense. However, you need more honey to make it through the winter in New York than you do in North Carolina. So, if a hive would need nearly half the space to still make it through the winter, would they still look for 40 liters of space?

My assumption (and that's all it is) is that the size of a swarm trap would be regional. 40 Liters would be small for a colony to make it through the winter in, if it was located in Alaska. But it may be too big for a colony that lives in Mexico. I'm pushed to believe that the "40 liters" mentality isn't encoded into _every_ race of bee for _every_ location, but I haven't read anything on it. Any thoughts?


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

Another question that came up is with the "old comb" trick. Seely's research (at least from memory, it's been a while since I read it) used _empty_ bait hives. I've always been told to put a frame of very dark, old comb in a bait hive, as it increases the chances of a swarm moving in. By adding a frame of comb, does it chance the "40 liters" rule? Would it then need to be larger, since some of the 40 liters is being occupied by comb? Or could it be smaller, since a 35 liter home with comb would be more acceptable than a 40 liter home without comb?


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

Seely's book talks about the *size* of a swarm hive, as well as it's quality, but not necessarily it's location. I'm sure others have done research on the best heigh, the best distance away from hives, the best direction, amount of sunlight, distance to water, ect., for placing bait hives, but I am not aware of it. Can anyone help me?

p.s. Sorry for the triple post. My braid doesn't always work so clearly on Sunday morning.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Charlie B said:


> I used old "already lived in" 8 frame mediums that lured 12 swarms over the summer.


What was the "furniture" inside? Old combs, new combs, other? 
My eight medium frame wine boxes with broken yellow extracting combs were no where as successful as my five deep frame traps with black brood combs.


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## Keth Comollo (Nov 4, 2011)

Seely just put pieces of comb in the trap and didn't adjust sizes of the trap to account for it.

The question about location is very valid as most of Seely's work was done in Ithaca, NY and on Appledore Island off the coast of New Hampshire. The lucky part for me is that I live on basically the same latitude and experience almost identical winters to those locations. I do not know if a Florida bee prefers a smaller hive but since I am not in Florida I don't really care.

Another point that Seely brings up is that most people believe traps should be placed nearer the ground. His reasoning is that it is because most people see swarms at eye level and often walk past swarms higher up in bee trees. By bee lining he found that the average height of a hive in a tree was actually 21 feet. Much more protection from bears, skunks etc. at that level. We just don't look up enough I guess!!


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Keth Comollo said:


> he found that the average height of a hive in a tree was actually 21 feet.


Bees are opportunists and choose a cavity where they find it. I see swarms in our local oak trees at all heights, where a limb has broken and formed a cavity. I see the same in hives in structures. I know of a swarm entering at the bottom of a sealed garage door and swarms in the top of churches. I set my bait hives where I can easily retrieve them and a large percentage get filled. My friend set one of my baits on top of an arbor, I made him climb the ladder and get it down in the dark with bees clustered on the outside.


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## Jaseemtp (Nov 29, 2010)

I set out alot of traps last spring and did not have much luck. I was using a 5 frame medium nuc baited with lemon grass oil, I did have several of them check out but no one moved in. Good think I am on the swarm call list!


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

odfrank said:


> What was the "furniture" inside? Old combs, new combs, other?
> My eight medium frame wine boxes with broken yellow extracting combs were no where as successful as my five deep frame traps with black brood combs.


I placed two frames of old black brood comb, one against each side wall to open up the middle to give a roomy appearance. Used a little lemongrass oil on a piece of paper towel and placed that inside a half opened sandwich bag inside the box. Set the box on my hive stand near my other hives. 

As far as I can tell, bees are attracted to other colony activity. They love to be around other bees. I really think that had a big part of attracting them. (Just my opinion). In early spring, I had tried setting them out in trees and other places and didn't have any luck. I put the box on my hive stand with everything still inside because I didn't know what else to do with it. 

The next thing I knew I was getting a swarm a week there consistently most of the spring and summer. I even ran out of frames to hive them and had to borrow some. I should say that my beeyard is on a four story roof across from Golden Gate Park so that obviously helped as well.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Specialkayme said:


> I'm sure others have done research on the best heigh, the best distance away from hives, the best direction, amount of sunlight, distance to water, ect., for placing bait hives, but I am not aware of it.


I imagine that swarms don't necassarily decide on the place to hang out for a time the way they do their preference for a new home, but, 15ft off of the ground on the south side of a tree, ekectric/telephone pole or building is generally prefered by bees when choosing their new home. Besides that, cavity size comes into play. But that has been written about already. I hope that helps answer your question.

I don't really know if that answer really pertains to where swarms temporarily light before going to a new home though. Swarms I experience may light just about anywhere, from down near the ground at the edge of an apiary to way 30ft up in a tree aways from the yard. I'm not sure of the placement of the average.


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## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

This coming spring will be my first time setting swarm traps, and I will be placing them along a creek that is well used by the bees (berry blossom) in the spring. I have also located bee trees in the area. The funny thing is this, almost all the bee trees I have found, the hive entrance is less than 6' from the ground, one was about 1' from the ground, the one by my house is about 6' from the ground, another in the creek is about 2' off the ground and then my irrigation box hive that was under ground!! Then again, while dropping off a jar of honey to a "customer" that called me to collect a swarm out of her rose bush I looked at the rose bush and then looked straight up at a eucalyptus tree and seen where my "swarm" came from, a nice healthy population of bees using an entrance no less than 30' up from the ground!! Guess where a swram trap will be going next year!!

And like what was mentioned, setting swarm traps is going to be like fishing, you may limit out, or get skunked...........but that one time that I check a trap and its active, it will make it all worth the while!!


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## LetMBee (Jan 4, 2012)

BeeGhots: It sounds like you live in an area with a lot of feral bees. You probably won't have any trouble catching several swarms. I always get excited when I walk up on a trap that's hummin'. Each time I take a loaded box off a tree it's like I picked up a $100 bill off the ground. 
The year before last I had noticed a lot of bee trees WAY less than 10 feet off the ground. I wonder though if I just miss the ones that are up higher? After taking loaded traps down while on a ladder, I agree as stated earlier in this thread, hang your trap where you can handle it from the ground.


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