# hive corner reinforcement?



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

My first thought is concern about rot because of the moisture trapped between the metal and the wood.

Proper use of a hive tool won't damage your equipment. Supers last forever. I have some that are decades old.


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## Holmes (Feb 16, 2011)

I've seen plastic ones that Brushy Mountain sell:

http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/Hive-Corner-Protectors-Bag-of-25/productinfo/561/

If they're not recessed, I'm not sure of the gap space around the whole box though.


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## Bryan314 (Sep 15, 2010)

sqkcrk said:


> My first thought is concern about rot because of the moisture trapped between the metal and the wood.
> 
> Proper use of a hive tool won't damage your equipment. Supers last forever. I have some that are decades old.


Which brings up two questions and a meta-question: 

1)so if I DO do this, I should recess, then paint, then apply? 
2) what is the proper way to use a hive tool so that damage does not occur?
M)I've seen both top post and bottom post, what's the preferred quote method on this forum?

Thanks!

Bryan


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## Bryan314 (Sep 15, 2010)

Holmes said:


> I've seen plastic ones that Brushy Mountain sell:
> 
> http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/Hive-Corner-Protectors-Bag-of-25/productinfo/561/
> 
> If they're not recessed, I'm not sure of the gap space around the whole box though.


hmm...interesting. They don't show them being recessed at all. It's gaps I'm trying to avoid, these things look thick and most plastics wear faster than wood....I'm glad to see I'm not the only one thinking about the (possibly non-) problem, though. I guess I could just add two strips of metal, assemble my boxes, then see if a flashlight on the inside shows anywhere.

Bryan "experimentalist" Paschke, novice


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## Wyo (May 17, 2010)

I was thinking about the same kind of thing a while back. What I had planned to do add a small (say 3 inch) piece of step flashing to the same corner (top and bottom) of all of my boxes. That way, the two metal sections would always be together even if boxes were switched around. The sheet metal that flashing is made out of is thin enough that there shouldn’t be any need to recess the wood, and it would offer some protection to the edges. It was just a thought, so I don’t know how well it would work. Maybe I’ll try it one this year and see….


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Bryan314 said:


> Which brings up two questions and a meta-question:
> 
> 1)so if I DO do this, I should recess, then paint, then apply?
> 2) what is the proper way to use a hive tool so that damage does not occur?
> ...


Well Bryan, since I have never used them and am not likely to use them, I'm probably not the right on to give advice. My advice is not to bother and spend your money on something else.

I don't know what people are doing w/ their hive tools to inspire someone to invent such a device. The corners of my thousands of supers are just fine aand in good shape.

Top post/bottom post? I'm not sure what you mean. I just click on Reply or Quote. If replying to the post above, I usually don't quote. Unless there is a specific part of the post I wish to refer to. Is that what you were asking about?

I hope that helps.


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## NasalSponge (Jul 22, 2008)

It isn't going to hurt anything to give it a try but I would have to agree with Sqkcrk, unnecessary....I have yet to wear the corner of a box out.  As far as hive tool usage I use either a standard 10" or a Kent Williams hive tool sold by Walter Kelly, I place the flat edge between the boxes and hit the curved end with the palm of my hand....shazam!


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## soupcan (Jan 2, 2005)

Simply put, don't wast your time and or money.
Money & time better spent would be to dip or coat the new wood with copper naphtate or even just some linseed oil.
Repainted some equipment in the past 2 years that were put into service 8 to 10 years ago.
JThey just needed to be ground down & a new coat of paint added.


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## Mike Snodgrass (Mar 11, 2010)

I noticed that from prying the ends of frames up to break them free thanks to propolis that i have caused minor separations at some corners as well. i am installing metal corner brackets around the outside of each corner this year to save my boxs from me! No worrys about causeing gaps then. I also bought a new hive tool for prying the frames up instead of the standard type.


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## Swobee (May 18, 2007)

If you chose to install the metal reinforcements - think like a roofer. Install so they 'flash' over the exterior. Only a tiny wrap over the exterior side is needed to get any rain outside the hive where it belongs. If your bees are like mine, any other gaps created will become propolized over. They use that stuff for caulking, weather stripping, etc. We can learn some weatherization tricks from bees. They understand the need to ventilate their homes in addition to sealing where needed better than many humans! 

I'd thought sometime if I chose to really custom build my own boxes, I would cut all the top edges at a slight angle along their entire length. Maybe 5°-10° so they fit like a glove and should literally slip into place onto one another. The angle would also self-flash any rain or wind-driven moisture from the exterior. This could increase the bee space by a 1/16" or so which I don't know is a problem or not. 

Proper use of a hive tool is pretty objective. A quick, twist of the wrist and holding your tongue just right may work for any of us 97% of the time. Sometimes the propolis is sealed tougher than other times and it can be easy to dent the edges of supers or brood chamber boxes. Some wood is slightly softer in places than other - no matter what species is used.


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## Rick 1456 (Jun 22, 2010)

I'm going to chime in and confess,,,,,,in a previous life I was a bee ??? keeper. The obvious,,,to me anyway,,,was to place the hive tool between the end of the frame,,,,and the inside of the super wall:doh: and pry:doh:
My bee buddy at the time said, "You're pretty hard on that wood." 
IMO I have found some smaller hive tools at the Hardware store,,,,they are called Wonder Bars. A lot less expensive than the catalogs. Seem to work better for me.(I don't pry on the end bar anymore) Maybe someone has a You tube video on hive tool use. I'm not above learning something new.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

With the "Italian Hive Tool", I find that I rarely contact the super walls when manipulating frames. If I can't pull the first frame our by first pushing them all to the opposite side, with the combined pressure from using both thumbs, then I can use the Italian Hive Tool to pry frames up with frame on frame leverage. To lift super from super I haven't yet noticed any damage caused by prying with a hive tool to break the propolis bond, but I'm not usually in much of a hurry, so I am quite cautious when doing so.


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## fish_stix (May 17, 2009)

If you pry on the frame ends you are going to do damage to the boxes and eventually break off a frame end. Use the hive tool to move the frames to the side which breaks them loose 90% of the time, then fingers to lift the frame. If you really must pry then use the corner of the hive tool somewhere between the end bars to pry up the top bar.


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## Swobee (May 18, 2007)

fish_stix said:


> ...Use the hive tool to move the frames to the side which breaks them loose 90% of the time, then fingers to lift the frame.


This works OK unless somebody uses Stoller frame spacers. You can't move frames side to side then. Just one more reason I do not like Stollers.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I would think that one would crunch the metal and then what would you do, replace it?

When I work my hives, I stick my standard hive tool between the supers at the corner and pry up on the upper box. If frames are still stuck together, I stick my tool between the boxes and break the bottombars and top bars apart. Then, in order to remove frames from the upper box, I slide them away from me w/ the hive tool, unless frame spacers are present, then w/ the 90 degree end or the flat end, I break frames apart from each other and remove the second frame first. It seems like the best one, because of the angle, I guess. That's more or less how I do it, w/ variations of course.


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## beehivestate (Oct 14, 2009)

There is a corner bracket made for beehives. These corners prevent warping and are quite strong.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Eco-Bee-Box/266536623369158

or

http://ecobeebox.com/ecobeebox/Home.html


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I would look for the simplest solution and avoid anything necessary. I reinforce them only when they are falling apart...

"Perfection in beekeeping is not found in a multiplicity of appliances, but in simplicity and the elimination of everything not absolutely essential" --Brother Adam, In Search of the Best Bee Strains 

"It's not the daily increase but daily decrease. Hack away at the unessential."--Bruce Lee 

"In general, the simpler the system, the more efficient and the larger the amount of work which can be accomplished in a given time."--Frank Pellet, Practical Queen Rearing


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## beehivestate (Oct 14, 2009)

You don't know anything of the product or it's applications to be making a statement like you did.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Thinking the same thing, I have used the thin metal L shaped flashing cut into small strips to line the
box corners before. Though it work good the metal turn out to be non waterproof so they rusted. The
thin metal strip is for lining the frame rest inside the hive. So if I will use it again then apply a spray of
rust guard paint to them before assembly. Or just use the strong aluminum flashing sold at the hardware store. 
They have many different ones to choose from too. Yes, after many years of prying on the corners the box will 
deteriorate a little. It is a normal part of the wear and tear in using things.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

beehivestate said:


> You don't know anything of the product or it's applications to be making a statement like you did.


Here are 2 related threads: 

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?304170-Eco-Bee-Box&p=1212981#post1212981

... speaking of not knowing anything ... 
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?307014-Bees-don-t-heat-the-hive-modified-version


.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

As soon as I put my boxes together, I rout the corners back about an inch on all sides 1/16" deep... on all four corners, that gives an 1/8" notch when the boxes are stacked. A great place to place the hive tool and crack the boxes.......... works for me.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Swobee said:


> This works OK unless somebody uses Stoller frame spacers.


I use and like them, but I place only one on one side. Gives me all the advantages of spacing and moving........


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## Tim KS (May 9, 2014)

snl said:


> As soon as I put my boxes together, I rout the corners back about an inch on all sides 1/16" deep... on all four corners, that gives an 1/8" notch when the boxes are stacked. I great place to place the hive tool and crack the boxes.......... works for me.


Sounds interesting....how about a photo, please?


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Tim KS said:


> Sounds interesting....how about a photo, please?


The opening is exaggerated in the pic........makes cracking opening the boxes a LOT easier......


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

Never put your hive tool between boxes on the ends, only on the sided a couple inches from the end, and you will largely avoid any damage to the boxes. If you want a slot to put the tool in the bees won't propolise, you should take a block plane and shave off 1/16" or so on the outside edge of the sides for an inch or two near the end. Don't cut the taper more than half way across the wood, else the bees will find it from the inside and caulk it shut.

Propolis can be quite tough -- my buddy broke the corner off his hive tool, then managed to actually flip a box off the stack with his spare one. Very tight!

I would avoid metal re-enforcements, I cannot think of a way they won't cause trouble sooner or later. My home-made boxes are generally variable enough I don't have any trouble at all getting a hive tool between the boxes, in fact I've had to add some wood to a couple to close the crack up to keep robbers from finding the honey inside and pestering my hives badly.

Peter


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