# One piece pierco frames and SHB



## Jpoindexter (Oct 22, 2010)

They're terrible, you dont want them. Please send them to me. 

Just kidding. I strictly use one piece black Pierco frames on all my new hives because they save a ton of time when it comes to assembly. There is no assembly and the bees take right to them. The only 'con' I have heard is that some people have trouble with them in their de-cappers. As far as hive beetles, if I compare my pierco framed hives to some of my older wooden frame hives w/ plastic foundation - I don't really see a difference in SHB population. My bees keep them at bay as long as I keep my hives in full sun. Seems like the beetles cant handle the heat.


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## [email protected] (May 12, 2010)

I don't want to be the bearer of bad news, but hive beetles could be the least of your problems. It is always a bad idea to reuse someone else's old equipment. The reason is American Foulbrood. Unless you have absolute confidence in the health of the previous bees that were on those combs, burn them! The spores for AFB can live for decades and after you have invested in new bees and then drawn new combs, the bees will develop AFB. I realize that equipment is expensive but AFB is more common than most beekeepers want to admit and once you have it the only cure is burning the hive. Please don't pass these frames on to some one else.

This is also the reason why I advise people to be EXTREMELY carefull when buying nucs. With the shortage of packages lately, I have heard numerous reports of AFB coming along with nucs made up from large producers that have covered it up with antibiotics. 

Adam Fuller, azapiaries.com


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

If the pierco were only used an estimated two years, why do they need scraped down? Are you sure the bees can't clean them up cheaply and easily? They work all night. That is if you decide not to dissolve them in sulfuric acid and burn the residue before calling hazmat to get the residue.


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## papar (Apr 10, 2007)

Thanks for the advise. As a previous bee inspector for NY and PA I am very aware of the issues involving used equipment and I agree. In my case, this equipment comes from a known source. What concerns me are the places on the frame where SHB can hide from the bees.

With the combs setting around for so long not being used it became a bit nasty.

It's good to know that they will work okay in beetle country.


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> .
> 
> I have heard numerous reports of AFB coming along with nucs made up from large producers that have covered it up with antibiotics.
> 
> Adam Fuller, azapiaries.com


That is a pretty broad stroked and unfair comment directed at large producers with nothing but rumor to back it up. "I have heard..." inch:

On topic, the pierco frames have a tendancy to twist in the uncapper sometimes. Having used wax/wood, plastic/wood, and plastic one piece, I prefer the plastic/wood. As to SHB, i have no idea because they are not a problem yet, however, if they were to become a problem, I would more than likely use what we have and either not buy more or relegate them to honey supers only where the chance of pollen is unlikely.


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## [email protected] (May 12, 2010)

Honeyshack

I don't want to start poking fingers, but, I bought 225 nucs from a very large pollinator/nuc producer with the intention of reselling them. I ended up burning 25 that came down with AFB. Luckily I caught it before selling them. Who knows how many others from that load (other beekeepers bought 200 additional nucs on the load) had the same problems. I have bought and resold thousands of packages over the years and never had a problem. This wasn't an unsubstantiated rumor.


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

Point taken.

That said however a rather broad stroke was taken at...what was the word?....Oh yes, and i quote... 

"heard numerous reports of AFB coming along with nucs made up from large producers that have covered it up with antibiotics. "

You problem was with one, and you have bought and sold many in the past. To quote...

"I have bought and resold thousands of packages over the years and never had a problem"

Unfair to lump all large producers in with the bad apples. That would be like lumping all nuc re-sellers in the same apple box. There are good and there are bad. I am sure if you are as good at your business as you imply, you would not want to be lumped with the bad sellers.


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## [email protected] (May 12, 2010)

The orrigional point was to be leary of used combs and to under stand that if you are buying nucs, be extremly careful of the source. Check around your bee clubs for other peoples experiences with a given producer. The difference between nucs and packages is that you are buying brood combs. Used brood combs are one of the best ways to get AFB.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Check around your bee clubs for other peoples experiences with a given producer./QUOTE]
> 
> I agree with you Adam that buying nucleus colonies can result in disease being brought into your apiary. Looking for help from your bee club is a wise suggestion, but not always a solution. You bought your nucs in 2010. The producer and a Rhode Island beekeeper got together to sell these Florida nucs last summer too. Big discounts if bought through your bee association. [email protected] Come on, packages cost [email protected]
> 
> ...


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## [email protected] (May 12, 2010)

Thank you Michael. Adam Fuller


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

>>These large migratories do have disease issues. Most if not all rely on Tylosin antibiotic to control the AFB 

That sucks. I know burning is expensive but really, why not control the disease by eliminating the source of infection.
Thats how good old mother nature use to do it, thanks to wax moths


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

I guess some operations have relied on antibiotics for so long that AFB in endemic in their nives. To stop medicating now would be a huge problem.


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## papar (Apr 10, 2007)

I think this is exactly why you should know the beekeeper or get a solid recommendation before purchasing NUCs


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## Dragonfly130 (Dec 12, 2008)

As for the channels running along the edges of pierco, my bee's tend to propolis them all shut. As for taking the time to reuse old pierco frames I don't. I burn the old ones. For the time spent scraping them I find it easier and more cost effective to start with new.


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## papar (Apr 10, 2007)

I know what you mean about the time spent scraping the frames, I'm also recoating them with fresh wax. I just can't seem to throw them out. I did put a bunch out last year and the bees did a great job building out the frames.


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## woodguyrob (Jul 29, 2010)

Papar sorry to go off topic- 

Gotta say it's a bit unsettling (being nice here ) to know that AFB infested NUCS were within a mile or two of my yard.


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## Dragonfly130 (Dec 12, 2008)

They could be used to make drone frames by cutting the centers out. I've done that with new frames (left about an inch around the outside) and it worked well for getting drone comb. That would save the cost of new frames and provide needed drone frames. For someone wanting to cut out drone comb (capped brood) for varroa control, it would make cutout quick and easy.


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## papar (Apr 10, 2007)

I looked more closely at the frames and could see much of the channels were filled with propolis. 

I think it's also important to understand how beekeepers deal with SHB when they find it. Is keeping hives with minimal area for the beetle to hide from the bee, a determining factor? I would think that has something to do with it but perhaps the strength of the hive is as important.

What is your first defense when seeing SHB? Or, at what point do you react to the signs of SHB?

Thanks


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

That's a great question - you should start a thread in pests and diseases. Seriously.

The whole thread has been good - I'm considering buying several hundred new plastic frames (which I have never used) on account of I have an aversion to more work.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

In relatively small quantities, I got Mann Lake unwaxed deeps for 1.35 and shallows for 1.25. In quantity, I am sure one could do better. Waxing just doesn't take that long and the bees take to them fine. Unless you are going foundationless I don't see how you beat that price. They extract just fine.


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## winevines (Apr 7, 2007)

Michael Palmer said:


> [email protected] said:
> 
> 
> > These large migratories do have disease issues. Most if not all rely on Tylosin antibiotic to control the AFB in their colonies, and that's their only salvation. Their disease is resistant to Terramycin.
> ...


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

Karla, do you work? Are you Dumping your labor? I think you probably should avoid anything that stinks of capitalism, eschew these bees and work for free.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

winevines said:


> Michael Palmer said:
> 
> 
> > Can anyone clarify this cycle and how these cheap nucs of bees end up as a results? Not really a fan of nucs of bees coming off that kind of work, stress, and chemical exposure.
> ...


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

winevines said:


> Not really a fan of nucs of bees coming off that kind of work, stress, and chemical exposure.


Not commenting on any 'cheap' nucs from Florida, but our bees come out of almonds so big that if we didn't sell packages or nucs the bees would simply swarm anyway. Because we split them doesn't mean we are "dumping" bees, just taking advantage of nature doing what it does best, proliferating under positive conditions. 
You should know that the majority of the replacement bees that the nation buys come from bees that have been in almonds. If the dead bees these nucs and packages are replacing had been in the same "stressed out" conditions as those commercial bees coming out of almonds, perhaps they wouldn't have needed replacing to begin with.

Sheri


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

I can attest to the fact that Sheri's bees, post almonds, are very full of vigor. I feel that the average age of her bees in April is much less than that of our bees that have overwintered in Wisconsin. Believe what you want, but until the day comes that the commercial people are buying bees from the purist sideliners, I refuse to buy into the "stressed out , poisoned, commercial" bee matra.

Crazy Roland


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## StevenG (Mar 27, 2009)

Aw Roland, why do you want to deprive folks of their delusions? ;-)
Steven


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