# swarm trap size



## Rader Sidetrack

It is not really a matter of what size is "sufficient", in my opinion. Swarms move into boxes of all different sizes, including 5 frame nucs. Just take a look at one of the Ollie (odfrank) swarm trapping threads!

The 40 liter size often bandied about is approximately 10 gallons, and is approximately the volume of a 10 frame deep.

You can read Seeley's Swarm Trap study here:
http://ecommons.cornell.edu/bitstream/1813/2653/2/Bait Hives for Honey Bees.pdf

I make my swarm traps out of equipment built for other purposes. Make it do double duty.


----------



## Mr.Beeman

My swarm traps are two 5 frame medium nucs. It is literally a complete nuc hive (including drawn comb) strapped to a tree. Funniest looking thing to see it just.... there. 
Once a swarm moves in, I can leave it there quite a while if need be. Screen it off at dusk, take it to the apiary. Done.


----------



## odfrank

>I make my swarm traps out of equipment built for other purposes. Make it do double duty.

Exactly. A good swarm trap size matches your brood chamber size. Five frame nucs are also good as they can be used for a second purpose. Trap made from a deep super with luann lid:




Trap made from a unmodified deep with plywood top and bottom:
.


----------



## odfrank

A small swarm will fit into a big swarm trap, but a big swarm will not fit into a small swarm trap. So you won't catch it. This one flew away:


----------



## Michael Bush

The bait has more effect than the size, in my experience, but something between a five frame and ten frame deep is a good size. Old comb, lemongrass oil and queen juice (alcohol from a jar full of alcohol and old queens) is the best combination of bait but lemongrass oil will work ok by itself.


----------



## SS1

Some good advice above..
I use 8 frame medium boxes built JUST as traps.. about the same volume as a 5 frame deep.. I have quite a few of them, and they work well..
THAT does not mean I do not miss a large swarm once in a while, BUT, I prefer the ability to handle the box once it HAS bees in it.. Especially if your climbing a ladder to put them up.. I dont do that anymore either...
I put them up in GOOD locations that I know has feral hives in trees, barns, junk piles etc.. I put them up as high as I can Easily reach standing with both feet planted FIRMLY on the ground...
Different areas require different methods and different locations.. We have feral bees in abundance, and those bees often live AT, or very near ground level, because thats where the farmers stack all their old junk.. be it furniture, barrels, feeders, old equipment or what have you out in that old washout at the other end of the farm..
Your bees might be more picky and harder to find.


----------



## wildflowerlanehoney

cool, thanks for the input. 

i am going to post this question as well, but what are your odds you typically see. 50/50? 1 out of 5? put want an idea.


----------



## Michael Bush

It's like fishing. You can't say what you'll get in a given location because it's all about location. In a bad location you'll get 0 out of 5. In a good location you'll get 2 out of 5. A really good location might get more. Spread them around at first and then concentrate on the locations where you are catching them.


----------



## wheeler88

I used 4 boxes this past spring and caught 2 swarms. The boxes were about the size of a 8 frame deep. I used lemongrass oil as lure.


----------



## Colino

I built mine like minature topbar hives, I was 2 for 5 this year. 
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/34l58y2kbcg9pil/OlZmxiIvXh


----------



## wheeler88

Here is a picture of a box from 2012, same tree I caught a swarm in this year.

Thank you Lauri..............


----------



## mdax

I just made up a few swarm traps from 8 frame deeps and mediums. I'm planning on putting medium frames in them all.

Not sure where to cut entrance holes, if on the side I can't reuse the bodies for other things, but I don't see many who cut holes in the bottom..does that work just as well?

I'm definitely planning on using lemon grass oil, but don't have high expectations of my first year trying to catch a swarm.


----------



## Mr.Beeman

This looks like your best bet. Just temp screw it into the bottom of the super. Easy to remove if needed.


----------



## odfrank

Mr.Beeman said:


> This looks like your best bet. Just temp screw it into the bottom of the super. Easy to remove if needed.
> View attachment 8460


When recommending one of my brilliant inventions, please be sure to give me credit. thanks, OD.


----------



## Charlie B

odfrank said:


> When recommending one of my brilliant inventions, please be sure to give me credit. thanks, OD.


I see you copied BeeGhost when you cut that entrance so it's not really one of your brilliant inventions.


----------



## odfrank

Charlie B said:


> I see you copied BeeGhost when you cut that entrance so it's not really one of your brilliant inventions.


Little in beekeeping is new since 1850. Let me re-phrase it then. "When posting my pictures of my brilliant productions please give me credit." Now, where is BeeGhosts picture?


----------



## Rader Sidetrack

Here ...









From this thread:
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?291214-Migratory-lids/page2

BG posted that on 11/30/13, so _prior art_ hasn't really been established at this point ... :lookout:


----------



## odfrank

No no no, mine is completely different. It is just a partial cut into the plywood leaving enough for an entrance landing area.


----------



## odfrank

>BG posted that on 11/30/13, so _prior art_ hasn't really been established at this point ... :lookout:

My photo was from 2/13 and published on Beesource about that time.


----------



## Mr.Beeman

Can't for the life of me figure odfrank out. I'm not sure if he's serious or has a very dry sense of humor! lol


----------



## Michael Bush

>Little in beekeeping is new since 1850.

That is a fact. I don't know of anything really useful to come along since...


----------



## odfrank

Mr.Beeman said:


> Can't for the life of me figure odfrank out. I'm not sure if he's serious or has a very dry sense of humor! lol


With Charlie B cutting me down at every turn I have to keep my defenses up.


----------



## Charlie B

Radar and I are just keeping you honest!


----------



## Rader Sidetrack

Absolutely! .... Nothing goofy about _Charlie's _hive equipment ... 









How about them _Raiders _.... :lookout: :lpf:



Photo linked from: http://baynature.org/articles/thrill-of-the-hive-san-francisco-beekeeping/
More photos and a story at the link.

Oops ... I forgot this was a _Swarm Trap_ thread. So, from the same article, this appears to be one of Charlie's swarm traps ....









k::digging:


----------



## Charlie B

That last pic was an image of my "Economy Model" swarm trap. Note the double wall construction. I don't have the kind of money Ollie has but I manage none then less!


----------



## mdax

Made a swarm trap out of an 8 frame deep. Will also be making some from spare lumber...and now will have to try cardboard!


----------



## odfrank

Charlie, if you want to become rich like me you will have to become as cheap as me. Make your swarm traps out of Styrofoam fish shipping crates and wine boxes.


----------



## Kenww

Does the styrofoam work ok? Thought it might smell some. I wonder if a cooler would work?


----------



## odfrank

Kenww said:


> Does the styrofoam work ok? Thought it might smell some. I wonder if a cooler would work?


No, fish boxes are low density foam. They catch swarms fine but the bees eat right through it. And wine boxes don't hold up, wood is too thin.


----------



## Charlie B

odfrank said:


> No, fish boxes are low density foam. They catch swarms fine but the bees eat right through it. And wine boxes don't hold up, wood is too thin.


Sounds like you're on the right track with those boxes Ollie! :scratch:


----------



## odfrank

You don't learn if you don't try. I always generously admit my failures and promote my successes. See post #4 of this thread. I long ago declared the end of my winebox, fish box and packing box swarm trap days. They all caught swarms, but were equal work and expense of just using brood chambers or nuc boxes.


----------



## jadebees

Nearly all my bees are trapped, so this is what happens in THIS area. 5 frame nucs, or a single Warre box get checked out and often passed up. They have a capture rate of 10% at best. An 8 frame or 10 frame single box catches about 15 to 20% of the time. 2 Warre boxes, set up as a complete hive, or 2, 8 frame hive deeps are accepted more often, and the capture rate is about 20 to 25% at best around here. I put out between 15 to 20 lure boxes yearly. It requires more resources to set full hives out, but the bees seem to have an eye for their needs in the future. Even small softball sized swarms prefer larger boxes/sets. And a small spring swarm can get very large by September. Save work, just use a hive body, as it can be moved to the bee-yard as is.
The first year I started swarm luring I had a lot of small single box lures, so many that I STILL have extra Warre floors and roofs!
The next few years I put them together, and as a result, actually got more bees, with half, or even less, as many swarm lures. Also, that attracts bigger swarms.
Good luck! and happy bee-catching!


----------



## julysun

http://www.beerescue.com/Unusual_Honeybee_Infestations.html

The* VERY BEST* swarm box is built with a hand held drill using a 1" bit. Almost any wall will do, but one that is difficult to reach is best.


----------



## Charlie B

julysun said:


> http://www.beerescue.com/Unusual_Honeybee_Infestations.html
> 
> The* VERY BEST* swarm box is built with a hand held drill using a 1" bit. Almost any wall will do, but one that is difficult to reach is best.


:lpf:


----------



## rhaldridge

Rader Sidetrack said:


> Here ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From this thread:
> http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?291214-Migratory-lids/page2
> 
> BG posted that on 11/30/13, so _prior art_ hasn't really been established at this point ... :lookout:


The new guy never gets credit. I posted this on 07-17-2013,









I'm sure it's not an original idea.

But I think if I were repurposing 8 frame deeps as swarm traps, I'd put the routed board on top instead of on the bottom. That would make it easier to flip the board over to transport the trap. The traps I used this summer had those disc entrances that are easy to rotate shut, and they worked fine. but the routed top board avoids the cost of the disc and the hole in the hive body.


----------



## Adrian Quiney WI

How about a mobile swarm trap? Anyone ever tried parking in the same place at work, and happen to have a swarm trap on top of the vehicle? It might work for those who park on the second or third floor of a parking ramp.


----------



## Charlie B

Rhaldridge,

So BG stole this from you, ok, I see what's going on now.

Adrian, are you drunk?


----------



## rhaldridge

Charlie B said:


> Rhaldridge,
> 
> So BG stole this from you, ok, I


I make no claims.


----------



## jadebees

julysun said:


> http://www.beerescue.com/Unusual_Honeybee_Infestations.html
> 
> The* VERY BEST* swarm box is built with a hand held drill using a 1" bit. Almost any wall will do, but one that is difficult to reach is best.


Lol! That type is very good, but hard to move, as it is really heavy! This seems to be the makings of a fine prank on a rancid neighbor, with the help of a dose of swarm lure!


----------

