# ripping 2x8s in half for hive bodies



## dave w in virginia (Dec 28, 2016)

Hey folks, I'm a brand spanking new beekeeper but have a little experience in woodworking. I have some shop equipment so will try to make my hives. For now, I'm going to start making 8 frame langstroth hives all in medium size (6-5/8"), because at 55 years of age I can see the day coming soon when I can't lift heavy boxes. I may stay with 8 frame mediums for everything or I may start making deeper brood boxes. But that's a discussion for another day. 

Last week I got various wood at Home Depot for experimenting, I've read that hive bodies can be made out of many materials but 3/4" solid wood is most common. A 1x8-8' piece of rough cut pine is about $7 to $8. The same piece with four sanded sides is around $9 or $10. A sheet of 3/4" plywood is around $40 if it has an A quality side and a C quality side. 

However, a 2x8-10' is quite cheap. It is about $6.50 for fir and about $9 for white pine in 10' lengths. I like the 10' length because 120" will make cut six medium sides for 8 frame boxes less than 20" long with minimal waste. After cutting the 2x8 from it's current width of 7-1/4" down to 6-5/8", I will rip each piece on a table saw so that it is 3/4" wide instead of 1-1/2" wide, less the saw kerf which is a little less than 1/8". Final thickness will be slightly more than 11/16" after the ripping saw cut. (For non-wood hobbyists, a rip cut goes down the middle of the 1.5" length of the wood, splitting it into two 3/4" pieces).

I enjoy woodworking and don't bill myself for my free labor, so this would give me fir sides of a hive box for 55 cents each! I have a wood shaper and a cabinet box assembler to cut and assemble the box joints. I think it would only take a few seconds to rip the 2x8s on a table saw and I would work for half an hour here and there until I became bored. It is a long winter. 

Sorry about the long winded story to get us to this point. But finally I ask my questions. I've looked on all the beekeeping forums but haven't seen anyone rip 2x8's down to 3/4" material. As long as the knots are tight it seems OK to me but I'd appreciate any advice. Nor have I found many people that use a shaper to cut box joints, then a cabinet box assembler. Am I missing something? And I read one forum that said pine was preferable to fir because it held nails/staples better. I've worked with both woods but don't remember that pine held nails better than fir. People can say just about anything. Does anyone else have advice on that?

This is my first beekeeping post! I'm very excited because I've been waiting 45 years since my first hive to get some more. I got a hive when I was about 10 years old. And haven't learned a thing since.


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## Jim_in_PA (May 17, 2016)

Re-sawing the 2x lumber (1.5" thick actual)...which is what you are doing...is best done with a band saw for minimal kerf and it also tends to be safer than using a table saw. Construction lumber can tend to move while cutting it down the middle due to moisture imbalances and because today's lumber comes from younger, fast growing trees. The band saw will deal with this better than the table saw will and having the table saw blade raised to max requires great care to avoid accidents.

It's pretty much impossible to get two boards that are a full 3/4" thick from a 1.5" thick piece of lumber, regardless of the saw you use, because of the saw kerf that you note. That's not a horrible thing as long as you adjust for that variation in thickness when you build your boxes and consider they will be a hair less sturdy than full 3/4" thick stock. If you check for local sawyers, you may be able to get both 4/4 and 8/4 rough cut pine or fir pretty inexpensively and it mills out nicely for hive component construction. I pay well under a buck a board foot for 4/4 rough pine. Knots are not an issue if they are stable and by using less expensive rough lumber to start, you can waste a little insuring no knots are in the areas that will be joined to make the boxes. Pine or fir is typical for bee boxes because it's not heavy and is relatively inexpensive. In some geographies, cedar or cypress come into play because they are plentiful and equally inexpensive.

A box joint jig/sled is easy to make for use on the table saw. It could also be made to use on a router table or shaper, but that's uncommon for nominal 3/4" box joints due to the size of the cut. A dado blade on a table saw cuts these bigger joints better. Alternatively...and there's already a substantial discussion in this forum area going on the subject...rabbit joints can be used for hive boxes. (I use rabbit joints for the small number of boxes I build) Glue (I use Titebond III) and pneumatic staples or 15 gage coated finish nails will hold nicely regardless of the joinery you choose.


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## dave w in virginia (Dec 28, 2016)

Jim, thanks for that good advice. You're right that a band saw would leave me more wood due to it's thinner kerf. I hadn't considered that because I don't own a decent bandsaw, but now I'll look into the price of a larger one. 

I understand that 11/16" is getting marginal for a hive box. Losing that last sixteenth of an inch from the 3/4" thickness may push the limit too far just to save $2 per box. I've been thinking that the 8 frame mediums wouldn't have the same handling stress as the heavier boxes but I could be wrong. Because I haven't had a hive in 45 years this is just a theoretical thought on my part. It isn't born from practical considerations like the rest of you have with your experience. You've been working with boxes in the field and breaking them free from each other when stuck together. That last 1/16" difference might make the box too unstable for a long life. But at this point I'd guess that the lighter boxes might still be OK with 11/16" material. 

I will look around for local sawmills for rough cut pine. I don't mind rabbet joints but I already have the heavy duty shaper so I ordered 3/4" cutters today. I hate cutting with dados on a table saw because it is so slow in comparison to the shaper. The shaper seems like 10 seconds for 6" of box joints whereas the table saw seems like 5 minutes. Finally, I am used to the 1/8" kerf of the cheap 10" table saw blades. It would be worth it to shell out a few bucks for a more expensive blade with a thinner kerf. I'll look for one of those too. Thanks again.


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## Jim_in_PA (May 17, 2016)

A thin-kerf (3/32") table saw blade at full height is even scarier...less mass and potential flutter. That said, it's a little more efficient and requires slightly less power for the same cut. You don't really need a major bandsaw to re-saw construction lumber like 2x8 pine, although the heavier, the better absolutely applies. Even a typical 14" consumer grade bandsaw with a riser block can easily handle that job with a nice 3 tpi blade and an adjustable fence. (for blade drift)

One other hint...*build the boxes because you enjoy it.* Quite frankly, the cost to buy ready-to-assemble boxes from the major bee suppliers is often less than material cost for DIY unless you are either making huge quantities and can source lumber at production level costs, or if you can get decent material from a local sawyer that is acceptable for the work. I'm a serious hobbyist woodworker with a professional level shop setup, but we keep a small supply of knocked down boxes from Mann Lake handy for quickly making up more when we need them. I spend my time building the other stuff because there is savings from that, especially when I can use "scrap" from other projects to build bottom boards, shims, telescoping tops, quilt boxes, etc.


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

Here is the fast way to rip those boards... 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsKkR2PQinU

or maybe this way...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljZQHSPEfwg


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## Steve in PA (Jan 26, 2015)

Jim_in_PA said:


> One other hint...*build the boxes because you enjoy it.* Quite frankly, the cost to buy ready-to-assemble boxes from the major bee suppliers is often less than material cost for DIY unless you are either making huge quantities and can source lumber at production level costs, or if you can get decent material from a local sawyer that is acceptable for the work..


Very true. Next year you will be wondering why frames are so expensive. After building most of my boxes the first year I realize they are probably one of, if no the cheapest part of owning bees. I'm doing boxes again this winter because I can build them for $3 to $4 each with lumber from one of the many mills in my area. Accounting for time it's probably still a loss but I get stir crazy in winter.


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## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

Long tablesaw resaws of 8 inch stock of con common lumber is disaster waiting to happen. Even on the west coast 8 inch dimension is usually slabbed through the heart center, splitting that material would leave a board that wants to twist into a spiral. A resaw like that would burn the cheap motor out of any but a pro-grade table saw. Toasted motor == lots of spanking new boxes drop shipped to your door by Mann Lake.

I build boxes out of 1x8 rough redwood fenceboards, but these are not shipped off the west coast. They are nominal 11/16", and work well. If you can get pallet quantities of 1x8 fence material - you might have the sweet spot on material. Not sure how much 1x8 fencing is sold on the east coast.

The redwood boxes are not finger jointed but are lapped and held with drywall style screws.

Odd lot trucking outfits get a lot of pallet crates built with 1x12. Find a source of those, and you are golden.


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## Jim_in_PA (May 17, 2016)

HarryVanderpool said:


> Here is the fast way to rip those boards...
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljZQHSPEfwg


"Vawwy-scawwy!!"


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## dave w in virginia (Dec 28, 2016)

Just to clarify, I hate to make long rips on a table saw. I was thinking of cutting the 2x8s down to 19.75" lengths and 6-5/8" widths before ripping them. And probably only ripping 3" from each side. This is a lot safer than trying to negotiate long lumber through a table saw, and much easier on the saw and blade.


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## dave w in virginia (Dec 28, 2016)

Steve in PA said:


> Very true. Next year you will be wondering why frames are so expensive. After building most of my boxes the first year I realize they are probably one of, if no the cheapest part of owning bees. I'm doing boxes again this winter because I can build them for $3 to $4 each with lumber from one of the many mills in my area. Accounting for time it's probably still a loss but I get stir crazy in winter.


Steve, I get a little winter crazy too and need the woodwork for stimulation. And this first time out I'm making the frames too. Later I may come to the same conclusion as others and buy ready made hives and frames. But I suspect that the lack of fast box jointing is what keeps most people from this approach. If I didn't have a 3 hp shaper I would be more reluctant.


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## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

dave w in virginia said:


> Just to clarify, I hate to make long rips on a table saw. I was thinking of cutting the 2x8s down to 19.75" lengths and 6-5/8" widths before ripping them.


Well if you are cutting to 19.75", you are going to have a really big pile of firewood.

19 7/8" or bust.

I've outsmarted myself on 11/16 material (fenceboards), thinking that these add up to a 1/8" under, and must be moved in closer than nominal. No clearance on the endbars which push into the frame rest rabbet. The thinner rabbet splits out easy.

You're better going for a slightly sloppy fit on the frame rest == no burr comb on the end bars of the comb.

Over-dimension too much however, and the frame ends walk off the rabbet rest. Fix that by adding the l-metal that is used on commercial boxes.

I attempt to make the frame rest rabbet "fat" on the stock side. I cut the rabbets with two passes of the table saw. One, on edge, blind. and the second on the face. This leaves as slightly narrower than design "shelf" on the frame rest.


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

The problem with Home Depot 1x lumber is that it is usually overpriced shelving grade. Most of the people who make their own hive components economically have discoved more cost effective sources of lumber. Some of them live near mills that generate slash, or waste lumber from the furniture business. I hear about salvaging pallets sometimes. 

I concur with bandsaws as the way to split 2X lumber. I've had several oak trees cut up for lumber at a local one-man sawmill, where he can feed tree trunks thru a heavy duty bandsaw with little waste. West Virginia has a lot of these little mills, and I'd expect a few in the Shenandoah Valley, too. To do this with 2X lumber you'd need something more than a little hobby bandsaw, and make a fence to hold the width of the lumber vertical.


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## dave w in virginia (Dec 28, 2016)

JWChesnut said:


> Well if you are cutting to 19.75", you are going to have a really big pile of firewood.
> 
> 19 7/8" or bust.
> 
> ...


I haven't done rabbeting work and am not familiar with the terms you are using. Are the terms still relevant to box joints? I have 3/4" cutters ordered, with 3/4" spacers. I won't know how exact they will fit until I put them into action. Hopefully the frame assembly machine can squeeze them in. This box frame assembler is also new (to me). I picked it up at auction from a cabinet maker and it has been sitting in my workshop for a couple of years collecting dust. But it's hydraulically operated and I assume it has enough strength to force tight joints together.


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## dave w in virginia (Dec 28, 2016)

Phoebee said:


> The problem with Home Depot 1x lumber is that it is usually overpriced shelving grade. Most of the people who make their own hive components economically have discoved more cost effective sources of lumber. Some of them live near mills that generate slash, or waste lumber from the furniture business. I hear about salvaging pallets sometimes.
> 
> I concur with bandsaws as the way to split 2X lumber. I've had several oak trees cut up for lumber at a local one-man sawmill, where he can feed tree trunks thru a heavy duty bandsaw with little waste. West Virginia has a lot of these little mills, and I'd expect a few in the Shenandoah Valley, too. To do this with 2X lumber you'd need something more than a little hobby bandsaw, and make a fence to hold the width of the lumber vertical.


Phoebe, Manassas is just a couple miles from me in Fairfax Station. Can you PM me with the phone number of your local one-man sawmill? How long did you cure your lumber? Winter might be over before green lumber dries for me.


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## rookie2531 (Jul 28, 2014)

I have resawed 2x in the past. Can't remember what for, but not bees.
I kept tripping the thermo switch and resetting it until I burned the motor out. And even though I was using a resaw jig, the boards were still not perfectly even from one side to the next. I know the bees won't care about the boxes being perfect, but you might. Another thing I remember about resawing was the pitch. I can't tell you how many times I had to clean that blade.


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## Dan the bee guy (Jun 18, 2015)

I bought a stack of ruff sawn two by fours cheep and it can be done but it takes a lot of time. You can never make the saw line up perfect so it's not going to look good unless you have a planer to smooth the saw cuts. But I use the 1 1/2 lumber to make the end bar on my frames I plane them too the right thickness then cut out hundreds at a time and when you make the top bars a 8 foot board is just the right size.


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

Try this link. http://woodmizer.com/us/Services/Find-a-Local-Sawyer

Alex


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

dave w in virginia said:


> Phoebe, Manassas is just a couple miles from me in Fairfax Station. Can you PM me with the phone number of your local one-man sawmill? How long did you cure your lumber? Winter might be over before green lumber dries for me.


Dave, we had four oaks of harvestable size when we cleared our West Virginia lot many years ago. Our contractor hauled them to his buddy in Burlington, WV. Several months later the sawmill guy delivered back our 3x6 rough cut beams. The intent was to use them to make staircase stringers. Alas, they're still sitting out by the shed under a tarp. Really well-seasoned by now, I guess. They were probably cut up 2-3 months after harvest.


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## dave w in virginia (Dec 28, 2016)

AHudd said:


> Try this link. http://woodmizer.com/us/Services/Find-a-Local-Sawyer
> 
> Alex


Thank you Alex, I'll look it up this evening.


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

https://www.amazon.com/Freud-LU86R010-10-Inch-General-PermaShield/dp/B00020JOBO/ref=sr_1_7 is an excellent general purpose saw blade that works well cutting pine, fir, spruce, hemlock, and cypress. It does just as well with hardwood but hardwood does not normally build up pitch on the blade.


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## Hoot Owl Lane Bees (Feb 24, 2012)

Welcome Dave
If you have a Meeks lumber yard in the area price there 1 x 12 lumber for roves.
I get them for .75 a board foot.
I can use them for deeps or mediums. 
I just make them all as deeps and cut to my needs. 
The cut off from the mediums can be used for feeders,shims or pollen traps.
I would never take a chance ripping a 2 x 10 and I have been doing wood work for 40++ years.

Good luck and don't take chances with power tools.


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## dave w in virginia (Dec 28, 2016)

Fusion_power said:


> https://www.amazon.com/Freud-LU86R010-10-Inch-General-PermaShield/dp/B00020JOBO/ref=sr_1_7 is an excellent general purpose saw blade that works well cutting pine, fir, spruce, hemlock, and cypress. It does just as well with hardwood but hardwood does not normally build up pitch on the blade.


I like that blade, and it's not even very expensive. Dewalt also has a .095 kerf blade that is inexpensive.


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## dave w in virginia (Dec 28, 2016)

Hoot Owl Lane Bees said:


> Welcome Dave
> If you have a Meeks lumber yard in the area price there 1 x 12 lumber for roves.
> I get them for .75 a board foot.
> I can use them for deeps or mediums.
> ...


Hoot Owl friend,
Nor would I ever take a chance ripping 2x10's. But short boards of 2x6 I will give a try to see if it feels comfortable. If I start to feel nervous from the table saw I will do them on a bandsaw instead.


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## Jim_in_PA (May 17, 2016)

Dave, I really, really do hope you'll do this work on the band saw...it's a much safer way to do this particular operation, even with short pieces because of the risk of pinching with a circular blade, even with a proper riving knife. Re-sawing on the bandsaw doesn't have kick-back issues, and with feather boards to keep the material against the fence, you can easily use a 'push in, pull out' and totally keep your digits away from the blade.


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## dave w in virginia (Dec 28, 2016)

Jim, I take your concern to heart, and also the genuine safety concern of the others. 

You know that feeling you get when you rip the first piece off of a full sheet of plywood on the table saw? You let the sheet get a little bit away from the fence and it starts to bind the blade. For me, a kind of dread fills my mind because I can hear what it does to the saw. If I get even a bit of that feeling on the table saw I will abandon that ripping in favor of the bandsaw. 

I also have a 1 hp auto feeder that I will move over to the table saw and see if it will help hold the boards in place without straining the blade. It will also keep my digits further away from the blade than the use of a stick as push bar.

I'm old enough to stop an operation when it makes me nervous. Thanks to you and the other replies for your concerns. After my first few cuts I may abandon the table saw and get a bandsaw.


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

dave w in virginia said:


> You know that feeling you get when you rip the first piece off of a full sheet of plywood on the table saw?


I know that feeling and it is why I love the panel saw I bought a couple of weeks ago.


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

I find that the bandsaw blade through the thick resaw seems to go wherever it wants. I am not an expert and have even tried to up my blade quality. I will say that if you push the boards through a table saw first (about a 2” cut both sides) the bandsaw blades track pretty nice between the kirfs. It is a nice compromise between trying to run the tablesaw blade to max and drift of the bandsaw.
I like the idea of the metal frame rests! I have some boxes that are a smidge too long and a couple that are a bit more than a smidge. I actually crown stapled some thin ply to the inside of a few supers to get the ID correct. 
I enjoy working with wood, even more cheap wood. I do find I do not pay as close attention for a hemlock board @ $0.40/ BF than I do a nice piece of hardwood for a bent arm Morris chair (thus all the back ground of how to fix screwed up boxes)


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

How beefy is the bandsaw?

In a metalworking shop or a company I used to work for, we had a small DoAll. The saw was probably 40 years old, nearly worn out, and light duty. At one point we got in a job to cut up a large quanty of cast bronze into test samples. They spent weeks forcing stuff thru the DoAll and the blade wandered horribly. They were cutting at least a quarter-inch oversized to compensate, then machining the samples down from there.

They finally destroyed the saw with overwork and got big new Marvel saw, much heavier and in new condition. The saw has a power feed. They discovered they could cut almost exactly to the finished size with it, and the surface finish looked like it had come off a mill or a shaper. They did more in a day than they'd done in 3 weeks on the little saw.

Sawmill bandsaws are the big beefy type, not the little ones at Home Depot.


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## dave w in virginia (Dec 28, 2016)

Phoebee said:


> I know that feeling and it is why I love the panel saw I bought a couple of weeks ago.


I guess we all know that feeling. It is kind of a cold sense of dread that runs through your stomach. I love panel saws too but it would be too much of a luxury for me.


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## dave w in virginia (Dec 28, 2016)

Minz, I also like working with cheap wood. It makes me feel more free to do more things than does expensive wood. Plus at heart I'm a construction guy, not a craftsman guy. I'll keep checking craigslist for local sawyers who might have cheap pine, maple or poplar. Those are probably about the most common trees around Virginia. We have a lot of oak but I don't see that working for hive bodies. Too heavy and probably too tough when it warps.


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## dave w in virginia (Dec 28, 2016)

Fusion Power, 

I got a Diablo/Freud yesterday and will get the Dewalt also. The Dewalt is cheaper but Home Depot was out of stock.


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## Jim_in_PA (May 17, 2016)

minz said:


> I find that the bandsaw blade through the thick resaw seems to go wherever it wants.


A sharp, properly tensioned blade should not be "wandering" significantly. Feed speed also maters...let the blade do the work and don't force the cut. Smaller saws have more challenge with this, however, because they are not stiff enough to provide the tension necessary for a good re-saw optimized blade.


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## dave w in virginia (Dec 28, 2016)

So...What I think I'm hearing from more experienced beekeepers is not too many worries about whether an 11/16" hive will be more problematic than a 3/4" (12/16") hive.

Mostly just worries about tool safety. Thanks again to all. Between the pressure of the auto feeder and the .095 kerf blade, I will go ahead and try a few hives on the table saw to see how it goes. If I'm not comfortable with that arrangement I'll get a band saw. 

I've started looking at Craigslist for rough cut wood and sooner or later will find a good source, which means I will probably be back to using local ruf sawn 3/4" pine.


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## aldenmiller (Mar 21, 2016)

Dave, if you are still looking for a mill try Hicksville Planing Mill in Clearspring, MD. It's just west of Hagerstown but well worth the drive. I have a friend that lives in Herndon who will meet me in Frederick when we drive up there. You can get just about any kind of wood you want at very reasonable prices. They will also plane it to whatever thickness you desire and put a straight edge on it (s3s).

-Alden


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## dave w in virginia (Dec 28, 2016)

Thanks a lot, Alden. I'll send you a PM now.


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## Jim_in_PA (May 17, 2016)

In case any non-woodworkers are interested, here's an example of what I was speaking about relative to re-sawing lumber on on the band saw. I happened to need to do this today for a small commission I'm working on and took a few photos. This is a short board (10"), but the cut is the same for a longer board. It happens to be maple that's 1.75" thick being split, but again, the same technique holds true for other thicknesses. The "feather boards" keep the stock against the fence, both before and after the cut and once enough has passed through the blade, the board can also be pulled on the outfeed side to keep hands away from the blade. Because the blade is sharp and new and the feed rate was slow, the surface needed only a small amount of clean-up.


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

Some pretty fru-fru featherboards you have there!

Speaking of which, I wonder how many casual woodworkers know about them or how to use them?


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## Jim_in_PA (May 17, 2016)

They are quite common, magnetic base "feather boards" and relatively inexpensive. The magnetic bases are the advantage because you don't get into a "need three hands" situation to put them in place as sometimes is the case with traditional wooden feather boards.  I do have wooden ones, but they get used quite infrequently...


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Jim
I like the feather boards and didn't know they exsisted. I have never used a feather board cause I am to lazy. I may have to get some.

I always rip the 2 bys to make frame sides. I don't have a thickness planer and want to make all other cuts on the block for the frame sides before I cut them into individual peices. I very seldom get a perfect cut with no seam in the middle of the board after cut. I just live with the little bit off and move on. I would hate to build the whole hives buy this method and have been through a few cheap tablesaws. I am using oak and hickory and hard woods.

If you are not obsessed with perfect, it might work but then again, my cheepest saws didn't hold up. I have moved up from a $200 to a $500 table saw and really have not got my moneys worth yet. I am a little gun shy but still do rip the 2 bys if I can't get what I want any other way. 
Cheers
gww


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## Jim_in_PA (May 17, 2016)

The purpose of the featherboards when re-sawing is to keep that material against the fence so that you get a consistent and safer cut. In addition to holding the wood to the fence, they also keep it from moving in any direction except the intended one. It works with a band saw, as I've show, but it also works with a table saw if you choose to re-saw for thickness on that tool. While having a thickness planer is nice to help clean things up, you can also use a hand plane with a properly sharpened blade or a ROS (random orbit sander) to take away any roughness. If you put the cut side to the inside of your hive boxes, you really only need to worry about the areas where you'll be doing joinery in the corners. Featherboards, whether you buy them or make them, are an essential part of woodworking, whether you are using an inexpensive job-site type saw or a $10,000 European machine.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Jim
Like I said, I have never used one. I get by with the things I do but most of the things I do are not furnature grade wood working. I do see how they could really help when doing toung and grove. I did some toung and groove with out it but could see it really helping. I have not been at this very long and do not discount what you are saying. I have been getting by but would like to get better.

I am cutting my own lumber and have used an electric hand plane when making wind turbin blades but have not had good luck with consistanly planing things that are wider then the planer and still have the ability to get proper thickness side to side. I used my uncles thickness planer to clean up some of my stuff and it worked really well. I have a little joiner that will do 6 inches and it is ok for getting a strait edge but not good for consistant thicknesses side to side. Plus most of what I work with is 8 inches wide. 

I do envy guys that know what they are doing. I got most of what I know by doing it wrong and off you tube.
I do like hearing any advice you give.
Cheer
gww

Ps I have sorta been putting the rough edge in facing the bees because I read somewhere that the bees seal it better and it makes them healthier.


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

> I got a Diablo/Freud yesterday


Here are some thoughts that may help with blade selection.

Diablo blades are great, however, they can only be sharpened 4 to 5 times as compared to up to 25 times for a standard commercial/industrial blade. For the amount of cutting you will do, a diablo can be a perfect combination of great cuts at a low cost.

Industrial blades such as the Freud LU86R010 thin kerf are fantastic for cutting softwood. If cutting a wood that is very brittle and subject to tears and fiber rips, it is important with any blade to make a scoring cut. Set the blade about 1/8 inch high and run the wood over it the first time, then raise the blade and make the full depth cut.

Blades can cost a lot of money, however, a 24 to 30 tooth rip blade, a 40 tooth combination blade, and a 50 to 60 tooth crosscut blade will handle almost any job. I purchased a rip blade, 2 40 tooth LU86R010 combination blades, a 60 tooth, and an 80 tooth plywood and melamine blade. I have had exactly one time that I really needed the 80 tooth blade so far. It was a very nice feeling to pull out the blade and put it on the saw for an hour's use cutting plastic panels.

If you dig around on woodcutting websites enough, there will always be a discussion of best saw blades. Forrest, Freud, and a handful of others will be listed as favorites.


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## dave w in virginia (Dec 28, 2016)

gww, I am with you all the way. I've spent my life on construction projects, but when I see what those youtube guys do I know that I am an amateur in comparison. I envy them too.


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## Jim_in_PA (May 17, 2016)

Electric hand planers are good for fitting residential doors (what they are often sold for), but not good for flattening or thickness planing lumber. A jointer is of similar principle...you can flatten one side or straighten an edge to be perpendicular to one face, but you cannot use it to plane material to constant thickness. You will always end up with a "wedge".  The tool you used at your uncle's place is the correct tool for that!

There are good forums to learn about and discuss woodworking techniques, tools and safety just like this wonderful resource for beekeeping. In fact, I help moderate one of the largest woodworking forums on the Internet. There is none among us that has nothing new to learn and we all have something we can contribute back, in turn.


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

Phoebee said:


> How beefy is the bandsaw?


After seeing Jims I do not even want to say, His magnetic feather boards cost more than most of my tools.
It is a 40 year old central machinery that I got from the inlaws NIB some years back. I put new tires on it and a riser block. I found the Grizzly parts bolt right on. 
The one year old I made this with it turns 18 this month, I guess I am getting old.


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## Jim_in_PA (May 17, 2016)

Minz, that's a beautiful rocker! Nice work.

Magnetic featherboards are available for under $20....and example is this one from Infinity Tools:

http://www.infinitytools.com/magswi...PP8u_fNaD2SO0K-HTlvCySiMVXH3xpP9_8aAlaj8P8HAQ

It's actually very nice for resawing because it can be stacked up higher while holding the material to the band saw's fence for both safety and a better cut. Your generic 14" bandsaw is just fine for splitting construction lumber down the middle, especially with an appropriate blade that's tensioned to specification. (I actually have one of the Central Machinery 14" machines with a riser in the back of my garage waiting on me having time to restore it and sell it to someone...a friend moved to the other side of the country and left it with me)

The magnetic ones I have, I picked up at a woodworking show years ago for not a lot of money (at the time) and used them with a 14" Jet saw (with riser) before I moving to the larger machine I use now. Accessories like that can live for decades!


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## dave w in virginia (Dec 28, 2016)

OK folks,

After a lot of great answers here I think I have what I need. I'll rip a few 6-5/8" hive bodies out of the 2x8 materials I have in stock, but the time required isn't the best use of my time. On the other hand, when I see the prices of bases, screen bottoms and telescoping covers, I see a lot more savings on these items from my time than trying to save a few dollars on a $15 unassembled box. I'm not certain whether there would be as much savings from making my own frames.

Thanks for helping me see the light. Time to start making bottoms and covers.


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## Jim_in_PA (May 17, 2016)

Making frames is a totally thankless task, Dave! I did a few this past summer "just because" and the number of operations and jigs and whatnot was an enormous amount of work. Frames are the opposite of boxes...the material is cheap, but the labor is sky high! Maybe try it once to gain some ww skills, of course...


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

dave w in virginia said:


> OK folks,
> 
> After a lot of great answers here I think I have what I need. I'll rip a few 6-5/8" hive bodies out of the 2x8 materials I have in stock, but the time required isn't the best use of my time. On the other hand, when I see the prices of bases, screen bottoms and telescoping covers, I see a lot more savings on these items from my time than trying to save a few dollars on a $15 unassembled box. I'm not certain whether there would be as much savings from making my own frames.
> 
> Thanks for helping me see the light. Time to start making bottoms and covers.


For frames: I agree it was time consuming, material is almost free but I do not remember any jigs. :lookout:What did you make jigs for?I would not try them in a ‘few’ (less than 50 or 100). Tool set up would take longer than cutting.
For screen bottom boards go to Myoldtools, there is an easy screen bottom board made from a 2x4. If it were not for the cost of the hardware cloth they would almost be free.
For inner covers if you put a plywood ‘top’ in the bottom of your hive bodies before cutting them to the proper height you end up with an inner cover when you finally cut the tops.
For a migratory cover use a piece of plywood, I find they work way better than the hemlock ones I made.
Enjoy the sawdust and you will find it is way more cost effective than making hardwood furniture!
BTW the horse was supposed to be square but I cannot make a decent straight cut (or resaw) with my bandsaw!:lpf:


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## Jim_in_PA (May 17, 2016)

If you take a close look at commercial frames, they interlock in several places which helps with strength. So if you want to duplicate that design and create those joints both safely and efficiently, it's helpful to make a few jigs that hold the material as you make cuts, both with the saw and with a router table, depending on what you are doing. In some cases you can even gang material together. There are also little "finesse" things, such as the taper on the bottom of the top bar at the ends that are safest to do using a jig to hold the material. In my shop, it's very common for me to build jigs of various types; some for "one time use", such as the current commission I'm working on that has some complicated angles in the joinery and some are for long term, multiple project use. It's just a "method of work" that I ascribe to, especially when it makes for a cleaner cut and keeps my hands away from the operation.  Woodworking is a serious avocation for me, but I need to insure that nothing affects my ability to earn my living in my "real job" and a shop accident would be unfortunate in that respect.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

I have the time and so build my frames. It is slow though and since I value wood more then time. I usually only do about 20 frames or so at a time when I get enough scrap pieces of wood or get culled wood that has a knot or something in it that I can't really use for hive bodies. Such peices still usually give something even if it is just a few bottom bars of frames. If I had a job and time was a premium, I would not do it. If however I need to invent things to do in my garage rather then spend all day in the easy chair, frames are about as good as anything else.

Making frames is daunting when you look at the beescource plans for them (which is what I use). I do every bit of the frames on the table saw except the bottom taper on the side bars. I only use a daddo blade on the little slots on the top bar. The rest I just use multiple passes with the table saw blade to make all the groove and such. I use 2by material and then cut the side bars after it has all the slots and such that they need. It is getting easier. I find on the end taper of the top bar rest that starts at 5/8 inch and ends at 1/2 inch that a 5 degree tilt on the table saw blade makes it come out perfect. 
If it is for hobby purposes and you enjoy the garage and have more time then money, Making frames seems ok to me.
Cheers
gww


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## Jim_in_PA (May 17, 2016)

Yea, I enjoyed making some frames just for the experience, but I wouldn't do it again unless there was some kind of special need. These are generally for swarm traps anyway...foundationless.










And I took the time to "get fancy" with the top bars....


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Jim
Nice, I just set the table saw to 45 degree angle and bevel the whole top bar. I think the table saw is set to about 9/16th inch or so to get it to come out. I have pictures of slatted racks, a warre hive regular hive on a stand and a hive body with the top of the frames showing but not a picture of my foundationless frame which I know I took at one time. I will say that using hard woods, you sometimes have to let them rest after cutting and I get some bad ones due to warping and just touching a little knot can make the whole frame go wonkie.

I have made hundreds of them and it takes me more then a day to do 20 so when I say it needs to just be a hobby, I mean that. I could mass produce and make some jigs and do more and this is my third year of piddling at it but I still don't regret doing it for me. I like the ideal of being able to keep bees with out having to buy anything. If I was going to be a side liner and pursue bee keeping as a money making proposition, I would buy more stuff because time would be a preimium. If the original poster is only about getting some bees to have around as cheeply as posible then my way isn't so bad. But it aint quick.
Cheers
gww


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

I cut out parts and assembled about 400 frames over the past few months working an hour or so each day. I cut 800 end bar blanks 11 1/4 inches long, 13/32 thick, and 1 1/4 inches wide for Dadant depth frames over the last 2 days. If I were doing 20 frames a day, I would go stir crazy trying to build 1000 frames. I have a "jig" that holds 40 of the blanks at one time to run them through the dado to cut the top bar notch and again with different settings for the bottom bars. This is a much faster process now that I have two table saws and can set one up for each cut.

I also bought 500 shallow frames from Kelley and have half of them assembled. Given a choice, I would purchase the deep frames, but nobody makes Dadant depth frames 1.25 inches wide. So I cut my own.


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## dave w in virginia (Dec 28, 2016)

Fusion_power said:


> I cut out parts and assembled about 400 frames over the past few months working an hour or so each day. I cut 800 end bar blanks 11 1/4 inches long, 13/32 thick, and 1 1/4 inches wide for Dadant depth frames over the last 2 days. If I were doing 20 frames a day, I would go stir crazy trying to build 1000 frames. I have a "jig" that holds 40 of the blanks at one time to run them through the dado to cut the top bar notch and again with different settings for the bottom bars. This is a much faster process now that I have two table saws and can set one up for each cut.
> 
> I also bought 500 shallow frames from Kelley and have half of them assembled. Given a choice, I would purchase the deep frames, but nobody makes Dadant depth frames 1.25 inches wide. So I cut my own.


Given the scarcity of Dadant parts, I understand why you are making your own. Especially since you need enough hives to give you an economy of scale.


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## dave w in virginia (Dec 28, 2016)

Jim, that is some beautiful woodwork on those top bars. I'm sure it will help a lot to keep the bees building straight comb on your foundationless frames. I will go the fast and cheap way-- just cut a slot in the top bar for a foundation.


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

Boy I'll second that.Real nice work! 



dave w in virginia said:


> Jim, that is some beautiful woodwork on those top bars. I'm sure it will help a lot to keep the bees building straight comb on your foundationless frames. I will go the fast and cheap way-- just cut a slot in the top bar for a foundation.


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

Beautiful woodwork, but I see two measurements that don't look right. The lug appears to be 3/8 of an inch or a tad more thick. This means a migratory cover will cause the bees to build burr comb on top of the frames. Also, from the end of the lug to the edge of the side bar should be between 11/16 and 3/4 of an inch. That looks like 5/8. If the box it is placed in is a bit off on dimensions or the wood swells a bit from moisture, the end bars will be glued to the side of the hive.


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

A lot of repetitive cuts, I do not remember making any jigs more inquiring I would like to see what you built!
Here is how I did mine.
Side bars:
were a 2x6, (width of my jointer) Ran them through the jointer for a clean edge and get the width I wanted
that I cut 2x the length/ height I wanted (safer than doing small blocks)
ran them partially through the jointer both sides for the bottom round out (used a stop on the jointer table).


Cut the blocks in half to correct height –chop saw
Cut dato’s in tops and bottoms-

Sliced them to final dimensions with the table saw with a sled and piece of wood under the cut out portion from the jointer. 
Stacked and taped them and drilled holes, maybe should have done this before slicing them but did not have a drill bit long enough and I only have a bench drill press.

Bottom bars:
Stock is going to be the thickness of the bottom bar and the wider the better.
Chop saw to length
Set the full kirf blade (or dato) for the center grove and increment them through with your box jig to correct depth (picture a ½ stock with a bunch of cuts through it) Do not forget to include the kirf of the blade for when you cut them apart! (you can see I missed that on the increment

Raise the blade, and split them.
Using the dato cut the shoulder on each side.
Top bars:
Again, full length, cut dato’s for the frame width both ends
Set dato to angle and pushed it again
Cut the kirf for the foundation on the bottom.
Ripped the top bars to width
Cut the wedge out.
Put on a dato and cut the sides dato sides and bottom.


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## JConnolly (Feb 21, 2015)

Dave,

I found that 2x lumber is cheaper than the 3/4" 4s pine, so I've been resawing it for my hive boxes. However, I am not splitting it evenly, I wanted to maintain the full 3/4" thickness just to be consistent with my existing equipment. 

Even milling just one full thickness board, it is still cheaper than 3/4" pine, but the biggest advantage is that when I'm done I have a perfectly flat board that isn't cupped, where most 3/4" pine you buy is cupped and you end up with a lot of waste by the time you deal with it.

I'm also using 8 frame equipment for the same reason you are and I find that I can get a full hive box, plus kerf losses from a 6' board with little waste, so I buy my boards in 12' lengths. After I cut off any end checking and square up the end, it is just right for two boxes, so you might want to consider 12' instead of 10' boards.

I cut my boards to length first. Then I sticker them up for a couple of days to acclimate and let the wood move.

Since 2x lumber usually has a little bit of cupping, I run the pieces through my planer, crown side up, to flatten the crown. I don't have a jointer, so I flatten one side before resawing, while the board is thick

Then I resaw it to 7/8" thick from the side I flattened using my bandsaw. I avoid resawing with the tablesaw if possible because of the blade hazard, but not everybody has a bandsaw and most that do don't have 12" resaw capability, so if you do use the TS, please be very very careful.

Then I plane it to 3/4" thick, starting with the previously planed flat face down on the planer table.

And last, I rip it to width, cutting both sides square. If you resaw with a tablesaw, or have less than 12" resaw capability on your bandsaw, you'll have to rip to width sooner, but I save it for last for the flattest squarest boards.


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## JConnolly (Feb 21, 2015)

Jim_in_PA said:


> And I took the time to "get fancy" with the top bars....


Jim, can you explain the set up you used to cut the angled wedge on these top bars?


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## Jim_in_PA (May 17, 2016)

JConnolly said:


> Jim, can you explain the set up you used to cut the angled wedge on these top bars?


That would require me to actually "remember" them all. LOL I "think" I first made passes on the router table with a 45º cutter embedded in the fence and then cleaned up the edge by running down the fence on the table saw. Unfortunately, I didn't take any photos of the steps prior to getting this initial profile before working the ends...










My Euro sliding table saw's fence can be set at a lower position which makes working narrow and small components along the fence easy to do with a push block without the fence getting in the way.

The shoulder cut was made next...









This jig was used to hold each top bar to trim the ends. The fence was put back in the "tall" position so I could run the cut safely and fully supported









I'm sorry I was remiss in taking photos of those first steps and I'm just going by memory...


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

This is what I end up with when done with mine.








Cheers
gww


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## JConnolly (Feb 21, 2015)

Thanks Jim. It was more than enough information.

I've built a Warre hive just for the hell of it. In fact, it is so "just for the hell of it" that I've taken two seasons just to build the boxes with the observation windows. I haven't made the top bars yet and you've given me some ideas so thanks. Maybe I'll get it done in time for spring. Maybe not. If not then there is always 2018. Who knows, I may build a Dadant first, that long tread with Bernard a few months back really piqued my curiosity. It is just for something different, because for me this is just a hobby, so I don't mind puttering with it.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

JC.......
Me too.








Cheers
gww


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## JConnolly (Feb 21, 2015)

Nice looking Warre there GWW. 

Yeah, mine is just for something different. 

I had a bunch of old fir 2x10s (over 20 years old) so I figured they'd be nice and stable. I resawed and planed them down to 24 mm thick and used 12 mm rabbets with dovetails. I picked 24/12 mm because I had some scrap 12mm thick plexiglass laying around the shop that was waiting for a project. Over kill. But free. The boards sat on the shelf for half a year before I got back to doing anything, still flat and straight. I hand cut through dovetails just because it was quiet time in the shop, winter time toasting in front of the stove, and that kind of work is a good way to unwind after a long day in the office. I still need to make the base and top bars. 

I don't have any pictures, but here is the cad file rendering of my box design.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Jc
No windows in mine. I looked up a warre plan converted to inches and built that.

I was trying to see if they were easer to build then the langs. In the end the warre takes wider wood then I normally have on hand. It was fun. I have it sitting out side and am going to put some lemon grass oil in it and maby a swarm will move in.
Cheers
gww


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## dave w in virginia (Dec 28, 2016)

Ok folks, I have run the experiment by ripping some 2x8's and can duly report that the plan has failed. By the time I made several passes the kerf was getting larger, and the process took more time than it was worth. What I ended up with was closer to 1/2" than 3/4", and thus there was just not enough good wood left to take nails or staples as fasteners. Chalk that one up to experience.

Now another thought. Home Depot and Lowes usually have warped two bys on a special cart at the back of the store for 70% off. They usually don't have 2x12's, but often have 2x8s. Why not rip a 2x4 into a piece that is about 2-3/4" wide and then nail or lag this to a 2x8 for a deep hive body for brood? The longest nails I've used in a gun are 3-1/2", and these would only penetrate 3/4" into the 2x8 without countersinking. If you turn up the air pressure they may countersink another 1/4". Otherwise a pilot hole and some 4" wood screws. More labor but the wood would be nearly free.

With an extra 1-1/2" of wood width (3/4" more on each side) the a 10 frame box would be longer in both length and width, making it incompatible with standard boxes. I could get back to standard dimensions on width by eliminating a frame, but could only get to standard length by putting 3/4" board on the front and back instead of a two by. At least the 3/4" front and back would have good joints when mating with 1-1/2" sides.

Thoughts and criticisms?


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

I think you may find that the extra expense in glue, screws and screwing around, plus the non compatible sizes factor will make the idea fade away. I have done my share of the same kind of notions but the aggravation factor later in use has brought me to the conclusion of "no more"!


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## aldenmiller (Mar 21, 2016)

Going back to the frame making. I made my own frames and found the need for only one jig for cutting the tapers on the frame ends. 

I originally tried stacking and clamping end pieces and then running them over a dado blade to get the top and bottom dadoes. What I found to be easier and quicker was to take some 2" x 8" stock. Cut it to the length of the side being made. Using a rip blade on the table saw stand the 2" x 8" on end I make repeated cuts to get the top and bottom dadoes. Once the dadoes are cut then I rip the sides to thickness out of the 2" x 8". I found doing this I can knock out tons of side pieces really quickly.

Once the side pieces are cut I use the router table to put the taper on them. This is where the one jig comes into play. It's a piece of scrap the same width as the sides and is notched on the end to fit into the bottom of the frame side. I then fit this jig into the end of the frame side and rout the end of each frame side. Easy to do and keeps my fingers away from the spinning router bit.

Aside from the 2" x 8"s I built the rest of the frames out of scrap wood lying around the shop so I have a mix of poplar, yellow pine, cherry, and walnut in my frames. The nice thing is that when I am done I have frames and have cleaned up scrap that I refused to throw away.


-Alden


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## dave w in virginia (Dec 28, 2016)

aldenmiller said:


> What I found to be easier and quicker was to take some 2" x 8" stock. Cut it to the length of the side being made. Using a rip blade on the table saw stand the 2" x 8" on end I make repeated cuts to get the top and bottom dadoes. Once the dadoes are cut then I rip the sides to thickness out of the 2" x 8".
> 
> -Alden


What a great idea! That really does look like a fast way to make end bars. I always have scrap 2x8s and 2x10s laying around.


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## lharder (Mar 21, 2015)

I make boxes out of cull 2 by 8's. Butt joints, deck screws. If warped I plane the corners so they sit flat. As they are put together, I check with a good frame for good frame fit. Easily adjustable. 

And they give the bees a little extra protection. A touch heavier, but most of the weight is in the honey.


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

dave w in virginia said:


> They usually don't have 2x12's, but often have 2x8s. Why not rip a 2x4 into a piece that is about 2-3/4" wide and then nail or lag this to a 2x8 for a deep hive body for brood? The longest nails I've used in a gun are 3-1/2", and these would only penetrate 3/4" into the 2x8 without countersinking. If you turn up the air pressure they may countersink another 1/4". Otherwise a pilot hole and some 4" wood screws. More labor but the wood would be nearly free.
> 
> With an extra 1-1/2" of wood width (3/4" more on each side) the a 10 frame box would be longer in both length and width, making it incompatible with standard boxes. I could get back to standard dimensions on width by eliminating a frame, but could only get to standard length by putting 3/4" board on the front and back instead of a two by. At least the 3/4" front and back would have good joints when mating with 1-1/2" sides.
> 
> Thoughts and criticisms?


If I understand this correctly you are going to join two boards along the long edge, not a difficult task, but I think you are going about it in a different way. Glue is very strong in this configuration if you have a flat edge and some clamps. Traditionally you would do the alignment with biscuits or a spline (narrow piece of wood) which really do not add so much in strength as much as make it so your flat pieces do not float all over as you glue them up and clamp them. The glue is stronger than the screws or lags and just serves to hold them while the glue sets. The other point is to let the 2x4’s longer than the 2x8’s on the long sides and shorter on the short sides (and the ends would be a box joint made with 2x4), making it stronger again rather than using the ‘purchased ¾” stock’.


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

aldenmiller said:


> Cut it to the length of the side being made. Using a rip blade on the table saw stand the 2" x 8" on end I make repeated cuts to get the top and bottom dadoes. Once the dadoes are cut then I rip the sides to thickness out of the 2" x 8". I found doing this I can knock out tons of side pieces really quickly.


Alden, take a peek at my photo on post 59 is this what you mean for the sides? The photo shows my taped up finished product trying to look like the 2x6 I stared with, the small piece of wood between the two sections should represent the kirf before separating the two halves.
Cut to 2x+kirf of the frame height, Cut the edges on the jointer, cut in half, cut the dato’s (top and bottom) and slice with a tablesaw.


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

minz said:


> If I understand this correctly you are going to join two boards along the long edge, not a difficult task, but I think you are going about it in a different way. Glue is very strong in this configuration if you have a flat edge and some clamps. Traditionally you would do the alignment with biscuits or a spline (narrow piece of wood) which really do not add so much in strength as much as make it so your flat pieces do not float all over as you glue them up and clamp them. The glue is stronger than the screws or lags and just serves to hold them while the glue sets. The other point is to let the 2x4’s longer than the 2x8’s on the long sides and shorter on the short sides (and the ends would be a box joint made with 2x4), making it stronger again rather than using the ‘purchased ¾” stock’.


Wooden tabletops are typically made by gluing up a number of narrow planks to make a "butcher block." The block is then run thru a planer to get the desired thickness. If you are going to try this, take a careful look at the grain of the boards on the end. The folks who make table tops this way alternate the cup of the grain so that the resulting table does not warp.

There are large clamps intended specifically for this type of glue-up, but also handy as heck for other jobs.


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## Jim_in_PA (May 17, 2016)

Dave, relative to your 2x lumber experiment, unless you're going to make a large number of hive boxes, 1x lumber at $10-11 a box from the 'borg isn't such a horrible thing if you just want to make a few boxes from scratch. Cheaper lumber from a local sawyer as we already discussed is even better, but not required. You can use the "common" grade, too, just avoid knots at the joinery if you can. Tight knots elsewhere really don't matter and the bees don't care, either.


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

My wife streamed "Mr. Holmes" off of Amazon a couple of days ago. The first time thru watching this movie you might be so involved in trying to follow the plot and catching a couple of beekeeping lore errors that you don't notice the exquisite acting and minor details. The second viewing gives you the luxury. It is clear, watching him work the hive, that some unusual woods were used to build his hives. One of his inside top covers looks like it has a walnut panel. One wonders where he buys them or has them made, and with what source of wood.

The movie is set just after WWII, when Holmes has long retired from detective work to concentrate on his bees.


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## Jim_in_PA (May 17, 2016)

It's not inconceivable that the materials for the hives at that point in time...just like today...might include repurposed materials. Thrifty folks do what they do.  There's a floor joist in the 250 year old portion of our home that was clearly repurposed from prior use based on the beaded edges that were likely done with a scratch stock...


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

Jim_in_PA said:


> It's not inconceivable that the materials for the hives at that point in time...just like today...might include repurposed materials. Thrifty folks do what they do.  There's a floor joist in the 250 year old portion of our home that was clearly repurposed from prior use based on the beaded edges that were likely done with a scratch stock...


It just occurred to me this morning that there might be quite a lot of high-quality plywood scrap from the production of the Mosquito bomber available at around that time. It would be a great detail if they found or reproduced authentic period hives. They're basically Langstroths with garden roofs, but the details suggest they are period or regionally distinctive.


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## aldenmiller (Mar 21, 2016)

minz said:


> Alden, take a peek at my photo on post 59 is this what you mean for the sides? The photo shows my taped up finished product trying to look like the 2x6 I stared with, the small piece of wood between the two sections should represent the kirf before separating the two halves.
> Cut to 2x+kirf of the frame height, Cut the edges on the jointer, cut in half, cut the dato’s (top and bottom) and slice with a tablesaw.


I missed that one. I like the idea of using the jointer. I will have to do that next time. I think I would cut the bottom dadoes first so I would have a square side against the fence of my table saw. That will save a ton of time, I can use a 2" x 10 (small gloat  ). I am going to go back and look at your pictures again. Did you use a stop block or mark on the fence to set the length?

-Alden


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## dave w in virginia (Dec 28, 2016)

JConnolly said:


> Dave,
> 
> I found that 2x lumber is cheaper than the 3/4" 4s pine, so I've been resawing it for my hive boxes. However, I am not splitting it evenly, I wanted to maintain the full 3/4" thickness just to be consistent with my existing equipment.
> 
> ...


JConnelly, I like your approach. Good ideas.


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## emrude (Mar 23, 2015)

This is a wonderful thread. 
Jim--I like your foundationless top bars. I hadn't considered using a 45-degree router bit. I planned to cut the angle on the table saw. I think if I wanted to make thousands of frames, I would have blades cut for my Williams & Hussey molder. I have the time to spend in the shop. The top bars are the only fussy part of the "F" frames. 
JWC- I wish I could pick up a pallet of your fenceboards. The fence boards in the Midwest are a bit over 5/8" and really wonky wood unless you buy the premium wood.
Minz- -I like cutting two pieces together on the jointer. I had been planning to cut the grooves in the top and bottom of end bars when the wood was still a 2x6 and then run the sidebars on the jointer to thin the sides. I plan to cut the 2x6 into thin sidebars on my bandsaw. 
Thanks to Dave for starting this thread. I make my boxes using rabbets on the front and back boards. (Top for frames and down both sides.) The sides and top are the same depth. The top rabbet where the frames rest is shorter than sides. The side boards don't need to have anything done to them except cut to length. I glue them on a flat surface, check that top rabbets are in the right place, for squareness, and shoot brads into them. After the glue dries, I check box for flatness and for square and do any planing needed, and I screw in deck screws into the sides. 
I plan to make the jig for handles this year. I don't like cleats. I only make and use 8-frame mediums. 

Thanks for the ideas and tips.

Mary


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## dave w in virginia (Dec 28, 2016)

lharder said:


> I make boxes out of cull 2 by 8's. Butt joints, deck screws. If warped I plane the corners so they sit flat. As they are put together, I check with a good frame for good frame fit. Easily adjustable.
> 
> And they give the bees a little extra protection. A touch heavier, but most of the weight is in the honey.


lharder, I don't see any problem with butt jointed 2x8's from scrap lumber. Maybe it wouldn't fit the look of a million dollar yard, but that isn't me anyway. But I'd also think 45 degree mitres would be just as easy as butt joints and probably very strong. The mitred edge would be at least 2" for the titebond glue, and there would be no end grain left to the weather. I think rotting end grain (even in a box joint) is the weakness of any hive.


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

aldenmiller said:


> I think I would cut the bottom dadoes first so I would have a square side against the fence of my table saw. That will save a ton of time, I can use a 2" x 10 (small gloat  ). I am going to go back and look at your pictures again. Did you use a stop block or mark on the fence to set the length?
> 
> -Alden


I use the mark so I know where to put the stop block so yes. You can see the letters M and D in red sharpy on the top of the fence. The red line on the front of the face is worn off. My table saw fence is short enough and the jointer cut deep enough that I have a flat edge to hit the fence. For the dato’s I like to ‘hog’ them out and since my jointer is not as fancy as yours:lpf: if I cut the dato’s first the wood on the ends may chip out corners more.


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## rolftonbees (Jul 10, 2014)

I once built a door frame by recutting a board and putting rabbets in it with a battery powered circular saw. 

If you have patients and a few good clamps and a long straight edge you can make anything.

I agree that a local lumber mill might have some boards the right thickness for a similar price per foot.


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

Here's another thread with good ideas on frame building: http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...-foundation-less-frame-design-using-2x-lumber

Alex


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## vdotmatrix (Apr 5, 2014)

I USE THEE 1X8X10' and rip to 6.5" wide but you can go 6 5/8' if you like....with the 10' section there is slightly less waste and I rough cut the section in half ( oooops don't remember if this was for my NUCs). I rip with a Kreg feather board. ( ripping is the scariest aspect of woodworkingto me). 2x8? most woodenware is 3/4" thick and futzing around with "two by" isolates your equipment as most industry accessories will be different. I used the incra I-box for box joints until I started using the Kreg pocket hole jig, 3 screws for each side and titebond III. I avoid plywood for anything except for TC. Plywood doesn't end well as material for boxes, YMMV. Lastly, I paint my woodenware. Some people swear by wax dipping, but after 4 years, my painted stuff is as good as the first day.....meanwhile, because wood has different porosities from board to board as well as densities, the hot wax doesn't permeate the wood uniformly....the result is the wood will still warp, swell and fail at the worse possible time, but YMMV. I fellow beek down the street has all the symptoms of wax dipped hive boxes.....Air gun makes your life easier, but screws and glue is a dream!! that's all I have for now...better hurry up , you'll need your stuff before you know it.


dave w in virginia said:


> Hey folks, I'm a brand spanking new beekeeper but have a little experience in woodworking. I have some shop equipment so will try to make my hives. For now, I'm going to start making 8 frame langstroth hives all in medium size (6-5/8"), because at 55 years of age I can see the day coming soon when I can't lift heavy boxes. I may stay with 8 frame mediums for everything or I may start making deeper brood boxes. But that's a discussion for another day.
> 
> Last week I got various wood at Home Depot for experimenting, I've read that hive bodies can be made out of many materials but 3/4" solid wood is most common. A 1x8-8' piece of rough cut pine is about $7 to $8. The same piece with four sanded sides is around $9 or $10. A sheet of 3/4" plywood is around $40 if it has an A quality side and a C quality side.
> 
> ...


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