# Colony lost - wasps?



## skylinebeekeeper (Nov 10, 2017)

I checked on my bees today and found that the hive was completely empty of bees, even the dead ones that had been on the bottom. They were active last weekend, so it happened in the past few days. The only thing I can think of is wasps or another pest (?) that ate all the dead bees that were also on the bottom? Suggestions? This was my first colony/hive and they didn't even make it to the winter, boo!


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Post pictures of the combs. If you read through the recent postings you will find a lot of early dead or absconded hives so far. If you had 0 dead bees inside and little capped brood, they may have absconded. But my money is on mites. Look around on the ground for dead bees and check for dwv on any you find.

PS. Welcome to Beesource.


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## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

Welcome to the forum!

Wasps need protein while breeding, late in year they eat fruit or use nectar before dying.

They are not able to empty a hive of bees ( in Germany )


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## skylinebeekeeper (Nov 10, 2017)

Thank you both! I will look at comb today once its light out. I'm wondering where all the dead bees went that were all over the bottom of the hive? Do mites eat the dead bees as well?


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## Dan the bee guy (Jun 18, 2015)

Now you can do your homework so it doesn't happen next year. Bee behavior the bees will fly out of the hive to die when they are sick that is why you have no bees in the hive. Now you will have those that will blame it to absconding when it's mostly about mites making the bees sick. As for the dead bees on the bottom blame some little critters.


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## skylinebeekeeper (Nov 10, 2017)

I had an entrance reducer installed for the winter, but maybe it still allows mice to get in?


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## Dan the bee guy (Jun 18, 2015)

skylinebeekeeper said:


> I had an entrance reducer installed for the winter, but maybe it still allows mice to get in?


O yes indeed they can get in through the reducer. I should put mouse guards on haven't done that yet .


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## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

The bees that still live have the urge to clean the hives, probably the last survivors worked themselves to death tossing the dead bees out.


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## psm1212 (Feb 9, 2016)

Top 7 signs your deadout is due to varroa infestation (Bee Informed Partnership):

1. The colony was big and looked healthy in the fall
2. A lot of honey is left in the top supers
3. The cluster is now small, maybe the size of a softball
*4 There are hardly any bees on the bottom board*
5. Near or just below the cluster is a patch of spotty brood – some fully capped, and some with bees dying on emergence (heads facing out, tongues sticking out).
6. If you look closely in the cells around the brood, you will see white crystals stuck to the cell walls, looking like someone sprinkled coarse salt in the brood nest.
7. You don’t have records showing that varroa was under control.

https://beeinformed.org/2016/03/08/why-did-my-honey-bees-die/


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## skylinebeekeeper (Nov 10, 2017)

Thanks all! Yes, there was a fair amount of honey in the super, maybe half full, although not enough for the winter of course. A few more very newbie questions:
- I'm assuming its okay to harvest and use this honey? Or is that gross given the mites? I guess I'm not that picky or easily grossed out. I'd like to salvage what is left.
- The rest of the comb is really brittle, I'm wondering if I'll be able to use it as wax for other uses? Is it brittle because of the mites or is it typically like this? Curious what its like once I have it inside the house a while where its warm, its really cold outside. 
- Can I use the hive for a colony next year, or assuming it was infested with mites, is it best to not use it again?
Thanks again everyone, so helpful.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

You can harvest the honey but do not damage the comb or try to get the wax. After harvesting, freeze the frames for a few days and then store them indoors wrapped up. Beeswax is very brittle when cold and very soft when warm. The equipment will be fine as any mites won't live long. The new bees will clean up the comb next year and will have a head start since making comb is harder on them. Take some time to do your research and learn about beekeeping so you will be better at it and know more about how to do it.


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## skylinebeekeeper (Nov 10, 2017)

"Take some time to do your research and learn about beekeeping so you will be better at it and know more about how to do it." - yep, working on it! Just a newbie. Thanks for taking time to respond!


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

The first year is supposed to be hardest. I read and watched everything I could and when I got my first bees this past April, I realized I didn't know squat. Beesource is a great source of information but in the end, experience is still the best teacher (mostly of what not to do the next time). Join a local bee association and try to get a mentor. The local knowlege will really help as you go forward.


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## skylinebeekeeper (Nov 10, 2017)

I actually read a couple books, and have read a fair amount online, but there is just so much information out there! And a lot of it contradicts other info, and there are different philosophies, etc. We are in a rural area and a ways away from the nearest group, but I plan to take a class they are offering this winter....


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## NorthMaine (Oct 27, 2016)

Just wanted to suggest to go read Randy Oliver's website scientificbeekeeping.com lots of great info.


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## dudelt (Mar 18, 2013)

I have come to the realization that wasp/yellow jacket problems are generally a sign of other problems. If you have a full sized hive that is under constant attack from wasps, it is time to look for other issues. My experience has shown me the problem is usually mites. Look at it this way, if you have a hive of 40,000 bees with a decent queen, another 750 - 1000 bees are hatching every day. In order to take out the hive the wasps would have to kill well over 1,000 bees a day. Even then, it would take a fair amount of time for the hive to be killed. Wasps do not multiply nearly as quickly as honey bees do and plenty of wasps get killed attacking the hive. Wasps are usually not the main problem. They are doing what any other predator is doing. They are going after the weak and the sick while looking for an easy meal. 

Nucs are at risk because of their small size and around here, the yellow jackets are often an threat to them. Robbing screens can be helpful.


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## mlanden (Jun 19, 2016)

skylinebeekeeper said:


> I actually read a couple books, and have read a fair amount online, but there is just so much information out there! And a lot of it contradicts other info, and there are different philosophies, etc. We are in a rural area and a ways away from the nearest group, but I plan to take a class they are offering this winter....


I'm a semi-newbie myself (2nd year into it). I've read tons online, seen 12.5 zillion videos from various sources (university ones, generally the best, IMO), taken 2 classes (and some refresher classes), attend all the beek meetings locally [and some elsewhere], talk to anybody and everybody about the topic, and .... I still know I know little. My 2 hives collapsed last year after just 3 months, but looking back, I blame that on varroa. Seems as if nearly every problem gets back to those miserable little vermin. They make hives weak, and after that, it's Katie-bar-the-door re: all the other pests and predators. Last year, I didn't treat for the mites -- a local commercial beek told me July wasn't the right time for it. Yeah -- but he was dead-wrong, and my hives were overwhelmed by beetles and moths -- almost certainly after varroa infestation (I didn't test for mites, either. Then again, I hear you can always assume they're there, so why even bother with mite counts?). This year, I've treated with Apivar and oxalic acid vaporization (thx to my new and helpful mentor), and the 1 package I got in March ended up being 1 strong motherhive and a strong split (a 2nd split absconded. Maybe varroa-related -- I failed to treat it for some reason). It's a nice feeling, going into the fall/winter with apparently-healthy hives. Anyhow, welcome, sky -- I hope everybody's contributions give you ideas on how to cope with the challenges of beekeeping and improve your chances of success ......

Mitch


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