# Do bees need water in the winter?



## SwedeBee1970 (Oct 26, 2008)

Yes, like all forms of life need water. Being in NM even more important.


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## NDnewbeek (Jul 4, 2008)

They get much of their water during winter from the condensation produced by the overwintering cluster.


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## spoggy (Sep 24, 2009)

NDnewbeek said:


> They get much of their water during winter from the condensation produced by the overwintering cluster.


I don't understand something. Are they producing their own water within the cluster through condensation, or are they moving to an area in the hive where condensation is present and taking it back to the cluster? If the cluster is warm at the center, shouldn't it be dry as well? All I've ever heard about it is that in the winter, mosture kills.

Still learning,

spoggy


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## PCM (Sep 18, 2007)

Like anything else; Excessive moisture kills , when it drips down on the bees,it's bad, when it runs down the wall and out, it's no big problem.

A upper entrance, notch in cover board, helps to take the excess moisture and dampness out so it don't drip, or run down the walls.

PCM


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## AR Beekeeper (Sep 25, 2008)

The cluster is dry, the moisture forms mainly on the top and sides of the box. In the south, moisture is not a problem. What little, if any, drops on the cluster is used by the bees. 

There was an article in the ABJ a few years ago about wintering bees in Scotland that stated the bees also built up water in their bodies from the process of eating and generating heat for the cluster.


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## louborges (May 16, 2009)

Interesting about their water needs. They collect lots of nectar which is mostly water and evaporate it down to honey. So the hive must be very humid during the curing of the honey but yet they find other sources of drinking water. I also read that they use water to cool the hive through evaporation, like a swamp cooler. but yet while evaporating nectar. I'm just curious about how they eat honey during the winter if they require water to dilute it and dissolve the pollen they stored. It seam to me that they need more water in the winter than in the summer, They can't go out in the winter because everything is frozen.


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## SwedeBee1970 (Oct 26, 2008)

Just like breathing, I guess every insect/animal emits moisture. They've done it since the beginning of time. Air moisture and actual water droplets are two different things. The honey they produce is likely the correct mixture of water/food to overwinter. What if the correct syrup mixture would be close enough to simulate honey ?


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

In the high desert of the southwest . . . 

Moisture to meet the bees needs can be provide by placing a wet sponge inside a plastic bag and leaving open bag on top bars.

Moisture inside cluster is very necessary for any brood rearing in late winter/very early spring. Relative humidity must be maintained in 90% range within cluster so eggs will hatch.


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## spoggy (Sep 24, 2009)

This thread is interesting, but maybe no one seems to be exactly sure about how bees get needed water in the winter. I know that the cluster produces heat in the winter through shivering thermogenesis. I would assume that the heat produced by the bees also contains water vapor as a result of their respiration. Consequently, when the warm, moisture laden air hits the colder air in the hive, condensation occurs. This is not unlike steam condensing on a bathroom mirror when taking a shower. I also understand that this moisture has a tendancy to condense on the inside of the inner cover and on the hive walls. To avoid problems with water drops on the cluster, many hives are tipped forward slightly to allow the water to run down the front wall of the hive and out through the entrance.

I get all that.

What I don't know is if bees actually take in water from an external source while clustered. Do they get all the moisture they need from their honey stores, or does the cluster move to the walls and "ceiling" of the hive and drink from the condensate? If they still have a requirement for an external water source, and if so, should we all be wrapping our hives for the winter in more northern climes?

Spoggy


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## SwedeBee1970 (Oct 26, 2008)

Here is a reply email from my mentor about syrup mixing and moisture issues & feeding:


Since water weight is "a pint is a pound," then a gallon of water would weigh eight pounds. Sixteen pounds would make the mixture very thick which would help the bees with a _possible moisture problem_ should it turn so cold that the bees would become unable to fly during the day. In the spring the mixture is 1-1 or 8-8 because you are trying to imitate nectar and get the bees to raise more brood. Julie gave you the official recommendation. Don't feed sugar water if the bees are unable to fly as it could cause a moisture problem in the hive, possible killing them. I have to ask if your bees really need feeding. Most bees can get through the winter with a small number of frames of honey. You should practice lifting your hives from either the back like the experts recommend or from the side like I do. You will get used to the feel as to whether they have enough for the winter. Unless you have had them only a couple months or else if you have taken most of their honey off I suspect your bees are ready for winter. Too much honey (or sugar water) in the combs in the spring is a problem because it will sugar in time. It also takes up the space the bees need to raise brood. If I end up in the spring with two to four deep frames of honey I am delighted. I will keep an eye on them so they don't run out, but usually that is enough.


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## louborges (May 16, 2009)

Here in Northern New Mexico the last two weeks have been cold . The temperatures has been in the upper teens to low 20's at night and only around mid 30's during the day. But the last few days the day time temperatures have been in the mid 40's. With these warmer days I noticed the bees coming out and flying around the hive. I also noticed that they have been drinking from a water fountain that had melted water. So I guess they get water when they can. I also took a peek inside and noticed that the combs were a little wet inside even thou I have made an effort to have good ventilation. So maybe they don't take that moisture inside the hive.


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## Delta Bay (Dec 4, 2009)

Dave W said:


> Moisture inside cluster is very necessary for any brood rearing in late winter/very early spring. Relative humidity must be maintained in 90% range within cluster so eggs will hatch.


This is my understanding also. Near saturation point in the cluster. I couldn't tell you if they gather water in and around the cluster but it wouldn't surprise me if they did.
Bwrangler has an interesting observation on winter condensation on his site if you haven't seen.
http://bwrangler.litarium.com/condensation/


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## Fuzzy (Aug 4, 2005)

I have a floating cover on my pool. I can tell you that I can watch my bees flock to the pool to retrieve water from the edge of the cover. The temps are mild as is the humidity but there is not much nectar right now so I am assuming that they are thinning their honey stores in order to eat. The hive populations are pretty large so they will consume quite a bit. 

Fuzzy


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