# Top Bar Hive design. Mix of Warre/Horizontal.Lang



## antiemm (Apr 14, 2013)

Hello,

I am new to the forum and just saw your post. I just made a TBH with Warre style bars. (I don't have any Langs.) I filled in between the bars with with wood spacers that can easily be removed. I am hoping that once the bees are going strong I can remove a few of the spacers and "super" up during the main nectar flow. After I take one box I will open the hive horozontaly and let them keep everything they make until spring. We'll see what happens......


----------



## cerezha (Oct 11, 2011)

Hi!
My limited experience shows that it is much better to have all hardware of the same size to be exchangeable. Since you like it or not,Lang is a gold standard in US, it is just easier to follow Lang's dimensions. I "invented" top bars, which can be used in Lang box or in TBH, or in the horizontal hive. I really like my horizontal hive - it is 2x 10-frame Land box size (no frames used - top bars). Thus - I could put regular Lang box on top of horizontal hive. Since, horizontal hive is based on deep-box vertical dimension, I discovered that my TBs are not optimal - I am modifying them to provide some comb-support from the sides. If you interested, you could see long-hive discussion at the end of this thread:
http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...-frameless-honey-in-Santa-Monica-July-16-2012


----------



## antiemm (Apr 14, 2013)

I am just a hobby farm beekeeper. I don't have any Langs so I am just having fun in the wood shop trying out new ideas. I'm not opposed to Langs I just didn't want to spend the money.

I would be interested to see your comb support modifications. I havn't had too much trouble but occasionally I will have a comb fail. It never gets very hot up here though and I don't move my hives.

I love all the ideas on this forum!


----------



## cerezha (Oct 11, 2011)

I see. I used to think the same way - my first hive was TBH with my own dimensions. But, soon I discovered that it may be beneficial to have a hardware compatible with others. For instance, 19" top bar is better than 18" because it is compatible with Lang. Even if you have no Lang, you could exchange frames with others if they are the same size. 

As for my frames - I used to have a truncated foundationless frames - no bottom bar. They worked just fine to me. Than, I decided to remove sides as well - essentially, top bar. It worked just fine in medium boxes, but for deeps - I think it is too extreme. So, I am back to top bars with sides for better support. I actually never had any issues with foundationless truncated frames, but it is scary to manipulate deep-size top bars.


----------



## antiemm (Apr 14, 2013)

Sergey,

I didn't really think about compatibility with others, good point. I went out and measured the length of my top bars and they are 19 1/2" long! A 19" lang frome with the sides cut off and comb trimmed to the angle would fit just fine. 

I checked out the link to the thread above. I like your frame design. I will try something like that for my super boxes.

Thanks.


----------



## BackYardPhenomena (Jul 11, 2012)

So I am thinking it may be wise to make the bars the same dimensions as a lang and use the warre method? Again I am thinking this because of the length and space dimensions required for a horizontal hive will just intrude too much into the area allotted in my apiary.


----------



## cerezha (Oct 11, 2011)

BackYardPhenomena said:


> So I am thinking it may be wise to make the bars the same dimensions as a lang and use the warre method? ...


 Sure! I am using this approach - top bars in Lang bodies. It works really good in mediums, but top bar deeps full of honey - scary! I am adding side support to my TBs in deep boxes. Unfortunately, I am limited to only two beehives. Both of them essentially are TBs in Lang bodies ... I do not use Warre's management, well, I do not use much management at all 
I mainly checkerboard: took honey by frame(s) (bar) from periphery and add empty bar in the center alternating full and empty. So far, it works for me but I feel quilt that do not obey beekeeping laws...


----------



## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

My top bars are 17 inches, I wanted to try to get my lang to build straight comb so I screwed the Top bar comb underneat a lang top bar, come next week, I will pull the frame set it into the top bar and then about 4 twists of a screwdriver, the lang bar will be off.


----------



## BackYardPhenomena (Jul 11, 2012)

Ok, so I like that approach. My question then is how are you constructing the bars? Are you using 3/4" lumber and ripping it to 3/8"s. Using starter strips of some kind? 

Also, In a stacked lang with top bars how do the bees penetrate one box to the next, as my understanding of a top bar is that all the bars are touching. This essentially leaves no room for bees ot move up and down.


----------



## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

it's just an experiement, I use grade stakes for top bars for my TBH they are 1 1/4 wide and cheap. for the honey bars I will add spacers. I just cut a groove and glue popsicle ( craft sticks) into the grooves. The top bar on a lang frame uses the sides for spacers, I left them off, and just spaced the frames next to it accordingly. We will see how it works when I pull it next week, I'm hoping for two things, 1 that my lang hive will lay some brood in it and I can use that to help anchor the bees in my top bar hive when I install a package next week, and 2 it will give them a nice straight comb as a guide to build the rest of their bars on. My only problem is if they build it too much, I will have to cut some of the sides off to fit the slopes in the TBH.


----------



## cerezha (Oct 11, 2011)

You need to provide the bee-space gap between TBs similar to Warre.


----------



## BackYardPhenomena (Jul 11, 2012)

I just watched a video of a guy nailing in his frames in between a dado cut on a warre. How else does one ensure enough bee space?


----------



## cerezha (Oct 11, 2011)

I actually saw on the Internet that somebody used pins as a spacers - you know the pins to attach something to the cork-board with the ball as a top. Round colored plastic ball and the pin coming out. Apparently, the size of the ball is exactly what is needed. I have no reference to this.


----------

