# Mann Lake Brewers yeast prices to rise



## RAK (May 2, 2010)

Mann lake gets it from Aventine renewable energy. I get it there in bulk for much lower cost. However its the shipping that gets you. Mann lake is overcharging because of their Free shipping policy.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Lauri said:


> I've promoted Mann Lake and the quality of their brewers yeast several times this year on Beesource. It is an excellent product.


Lauri, a few questions.... what is the percent of protein? is it u.s.a. sourced or south east asia ? is it spray dried ?

Thanks for your time.Keith


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

If _RAK _is correct about Mann Lake getting yeast from Aventine, you can read the yeast data sheets here:

http://www.aventinerei.com/feedgradeyeast.html


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## jhirsche (Jun 15, 2009)

Just checked... Price is $72.55.


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

Could this be a substitute?
It looks golden...

http://www.empyreal75.com/pdf/Empyreal75FeedTag.pdf


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

Keith,
If I can't get the empyreal 75 milled to my specs, in 50# lots and solve a couple of the issues with it what would you recommend for my base proteins?

I use brewtech currently as the bulk of the base protein. 

I need small amounts, reasonable price and availability as well a consistent fresh product. I would like to stay away from soy and can't grow my own.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

I have the report from Minnesota Valley Testing Laboratories here. I'm not a liberty to disclose the entire report. I'm sure you understand Keith

Dry Brewers yeast
protein - 42%
Tryptophan - .551%

Dry Bee pro:
Protein -43.70%
Tryptophan - .593%

The 2013 year new supplier If I remember correctly, was USA sourced. The drying method is unknown to me. 
I love it though. Bees love it. When mixed 50/50 with beepro, my patties are the perfect consistancy..never dry or hard..and not too much soy protein.

Of course my protein sub recipe also includes acids, vitamins, electrolytes, fats, sugar, essential oils

With the bulk pricing and Black Friday sale, I got mine for about $45. per bag. I had to buy a bit more than I wanted, but I'll use it and have a freezer to keep the remainder in to keep it fresh. I use about 5-50# sacks a year of _each_ brewers yeast and Beepro. Had to buy 11 Yeast to get the bulk price.

I bought 3 full pallets of hive bodies, a pallet each of black rite cell foundation and unassembled frames, and a pallet of dry Bee pro and Brewers yeast. About *12, 000# *of supplies...

All shipped free. 

No shipping weight limitations on heavy stuff likes the other guys + their base price for items is FAR cheaper than the other guys. And I know the quality is excellent. And their customer service is Excellent. 

Before you say they just mark up their prices to allow for free shippping, I paid about $1.38 a board foot for deep hive bodies _already cut and milled_. $66.per case of 100 for unassembled frames, $81. for case of rite cell with no tax or shipping. Hard to believe they made much money on that order. 

The difficult thing about ordering is not only knowing your prices AND what material costs are AND how long it would take you to make it by hand from scratch, but trying to figure out what will go up in price soon and stocking up. I almost didn't order the yeast. But I'm glad I did, dodged a bullet.










Keith, I know you feel your sub is better than anyone else's, but _*you won't sell in small quantities and won't share your recipe*_. Most here are on a small scale, not commercial scale, and want or need to make their own.

Here is part of an email from Ed at Mann Lake:

'The reason for the price jump is simple. Brewer’s yeast is an international commodity, and subject to global market forces. Not sure why, but brewer’s yeast price went up quite a bit over the last several months. Our price went up in June, again in August, and again in the last couple weeks.'


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## azbees (Jul 23, 2011)

Does anyone know what ultra bee consists of? Does ultra bee need brewers yeas also?


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Keith Jarrett said:


> Lauri, a few questions.... is it u.s.a. sourced or south east asia ? is it spray dried ?
> 
> Thanks for your time.Keith


Bump.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

_Lauri's _protein patty recipe can be found in this thread:

http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...cts-like-Mann-Lake-Ultra-bee&highlight=recipe
See post #15


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

see post below for update:


There you go Keith, Bumping you back


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

azbees said:


> Does anyone know what ultra bee consists of? Does ultra bee need brewers yeas also?


I though Keith said once in a post? Soy?

Just a guess with the high protein percent I suspect it’s soy flour, soy isolate and yeast mixture

Anyone have a source for soy isolate? In a 50# quantity?


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Lauri said:


> Lauri,
> 
> All our yeast is produced at our own plant in Illinois and is all US Origin.
> 
> ...


So, if I understand this correctly, that Mann Lakes brewers yeast is made by Aventin? Is that correct Lauri?

Bumping you back again.lol


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Lauri said:


> If I remember right, last year Ed at Mann Lake said it was USA sourced. .'


Last I heard this year they were buying from Joe Romance and that stuff is coming in from overseas.

P.S. aventine protein is at 40% I believe.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Lauri said:


> I've promoted Mann Lake and the quality of their brewers yeast several times this year on Beesource. It is an excellent product.


FYI, that stuff has been coming from Vietnam, unlike Nutra Bees sub which is USA sourced. Just thought you should know Lauri.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

> I've promoted Mann Lake and the quality of their brewers yeast ..... 




Keith Jarrett said:


> FYI, that stuff has been coming from Vietnam, unlike Nutra Bees sub which is USA sourced.






RAK said:


> [HIGHLIGHT]Mann lake gets it from Aventine [/HIGHLIGHT] renewable energy. I get it there in bulk for much lower cost.


Somehow _RAK _and Keith seem to have different opinions as to the source of Mann Lake's yeast. Who is right? :scratch: 



Aventine is in Illinois.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

My bet is on Keith. Best to hear from the mouth of MK where they get their yeast from.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

This is the email I sent to Aventine on 12-6-13:
Hello, I buy brewers yeast from Mann Lake Bee supply. I was told they get their yeast from you. May I ask the origin of your feed yeast product?
(USA or other)
Thanks 
Lauri Miller

Here is their reply:
Lauri,

All our yeast is produced at our own plant in Illinois and is all US Origin.

We appreciate you using our Yeast

Best Regards,

Per Huffeldt
Director – Yeast Marketing & Business Development
Aventine Renewable Energy, INC.
PO Box 671268
Dallas, TX 75367
H: 309-347-9250
Cel: 402-578-4990

When I bought brewers yeast from Mann Lake in the* fall of 2012*, it was _horrible_. I can totally see that could have been the case (Vietnam product) Ed replaced it immediatly with Beepro since there was no other source at the time. They have since changed suppliers and I have found the quality to be very good. Ed sent me the Lab anylassis from MVTL for the yeast, dated 7-24-13 from that new supplier. 

Any details other than that I don't know offhand without contacting Ed again. I'll do that and report.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Rader Sidetrack;1027612opinions .[/QUOTE said:


> I only speak of facts not opinions.


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## JStinson (Mar 30, 2013)

Keith Jarrett said:


> FYI, that stuff has been coming from Vietnam, unlike Nutra Bees sub which is USA sourced. Just thought you should know Lauri.


Keith, do you have any plans to sell in small batches in the future? If not, your bashing of an ingredient that small timers can use in their sub is really not helping anyone out. 

I think Lauri answered you pretty well earlier:



Lauri said:


> Keith, I know you feel your sub is better than anyone else's, but _you won't sell in small quantities and won't share your recipe_. Most here are on a small scale, not commercial scale, and want or need to make their own.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

JStinson said:


> Keith, do you have any plans to sell in small batches in the future? If not, your bashing of an ingredient that small timers can use in their sub is really not helping anyone out.
> 
> I think Lauri answered you pretty well earlier:


Lauri did not answer any of my last two post, the problem is Lauri is tooting the horn about ML yeast and now if you read her last post some major discrepicies, nothing against Lauri. It's really about knowing a brand name product that you can count on, like PG, Kellogg's , General Mills ect... these companies don't change sources because they think they can save a dine for a short peroid of time, they buy for the long haul & have pride in the product there selling.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

> I only speak of facts not opinions.
Keith quotes *one word* out of my post, and responds with that?!?!  :lpf::doh:

For the record, here is the rest of what I sad ...


Rader Sidetrack said:


> Somehow _RAK _and Keith seem to have different opinions as to the source of Mann Lake's yeast. Who is right? :scratch:
> 
> Aventine is in Illinois.


:bus
Keith, your bus is leaving without you ...


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Sorry guys, I don't sit by the computer all day and answer posts...got to get some work done sometime 

Really, I totally don't care if folks buy the yeast or use it. I was just giving a heads up on price increases so they could stock up if they wanted to...Its too late now anyway.

Like I said, I'll email Ed on Monday and get the scoop on the origin of the yeast they sell now, since it had raised such controversy. 

Maybe the long reaching Kim Jong Un has his stamp of approval on it. LOL...THAT"S the reason the price went up!

"KIM! Keith Jarrett is on to YOU!"












Did you know North Korea is the #1 counterfeiter of US $100. bills? 
Your trivia fact for today.


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## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

I have a lot of respect, both for Kieth and Lauri, but I'm not warm and fuzzy about beating up on Mann Lake or Aventine via an exchange with Lauri. If you have something to say, say it (provide facts if you can). Readership will judge the facts. Mystery and innuendo put me off. I'm not very imaginative, I need this nutritional information straight and without intrigue. 

No offence intended here.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

I don't know about it being unavailable.... I guess I found this lying on the side of the road.



Seems like quite a mark up on the yeast but I don't know what the change in commodity price was, must've been huge. Lauri, you can probably turn that big steel tank of yours into a decent fermenter and make your own easily enough I'm guessing....


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Keith Jarrett said:


> I only speak of facts not opinions.


Then we can all laugh about this one .... :lpf::lookout::lpf:



Keith Jarrett said:


> I'll keep using my substanded feed.


Nutra-Bee? 



:bus


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Lauri said:


> This is the email I sent to Aventine on 12-6-13:


I noticed that they did not confirm that they supply ML in that email.


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## Rusty Hills Farm (Mar 24, 2010)

For most of us "small guys" out here in the rest of the universe, sources like MannLake, Dadant, Brushy Mountain, etc are the sources that are available to US. Those of us with a dozen hives cannot buy by the pallet/ton/truckload and it is really, REALLY disheartening when the big gun who CAN afford to buy that way goes smirking at us little 'uns for our pathetic ways. (Why does he even bother hanging around on here anyway? Unless he enjoys telling everyone that, no, they cannot buy his "superfood"--it's only available to "the big boys".)

Not everybody gets to live in California and have access to the "superfood" available only out there or by bulk. I, for one, get sick and tired of a certain manufacturer's superior attitude toward us peons out here in the rest of the country and his snide put-downs. We're doing the best we can with what we have available--and doing it pretty darn well, thank-you-very-much, even without access to that "superfood"! And doing it largely because the rest of the people on here actually go out of their way to be NICE while they are helping--instead of enjoying yet another laugh while pointing out our "pathetic" smallness.

And, Lauri, thanks for the heads-up on that price increase! Your thoughtfulness towards your fellow beeks is appreciated.

JMO!

Rusty


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Rusty Hills Farm said:


> For most of us "small guys" out here in the rest of the universe, sources like MannLake, Dadant, Brushy Mountain, etc are the sources that are available to US. Rusty


Rusty, this thread is about just that, if you knew where ML, Dadant, Brushy Mountain, ect... sourced there products & you had a favorite kind of yeast that you liked well wouldn't that help your decision, or maybe you wanted to stay away from a certain product for what ever reason wouldn't you like to know? When I source products, I look at alot of info the more I can learn the better, price isn't always the winner.


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## RAK (May 2, 2010)

flowerplanter said:


> anyone have a source for soy isolate? In a 50# quantity?


adm


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## RAK (May 2, 2010)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> _RAK _and Keith seem to have different opinions as to the source of Mann Lake's yeast. Who is right? :scratch:


Wouldn't doubt if they switched their source to some cheap crap out there. Keith is in the business so he should know more about this. 
We will have to wait and see what Ed says. If anything I could give Per at Aventine a buzz.



Keith Jarrett said:


> When I source products, I look at alot of info the more I can learn the better, price isn't always the winner.


Well said.


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## Rusty Hills Farm (Mar 24, 2010)

Keith Jarrett said:


> Rusty, this thread is about just that, if you knew where ML, Dadant, Brushy Mountain, ect... sourced there products & you had a favorite kind of yeast that you liked well wouldn't that help your decision, or maybe you wanted to stay away from a certain product for what ever reason wouldn't you like to know? When I source products, I look at alot of info the more I can learn the better, price isn't always the winner.


If I'm interested enough, I'll do my own research. I don't see how it became Lauri's responsibility to defend ML's buying practices. All she did was kindly point out an upcoming price increase from a national supplier. She didn't raise the price herself. Nor did she decide who ML would buy it from. Bottom line: In a free-market economy, it is up to the buyer to do his homework and decide for himself what is an acceptable source or an unacceptable one or IF he even cares about such things. 

As always, JMO!

Rusty

edited to add:



> Here is their reply:
> Lauri,
> 
> All our yeast is produced at our own plant in Illinois and is all US Origin.
> ...


_"We appreciate you using our Yeast"_ sure sounds to me like an acknowledgement that they supply ML. But what do I know!


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Rusty Hills Farm said:


> If I'm interested enough, I'll do my own research. !


Fair enough Rusty, but in a forum like this where folks debate topics, also look at Lauri second half of her first post. This has nothing to do with picking on Lauri, rather just debating the thread at hand.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Lauri said:


> I
> I've promoted Mann Lake and the quality of their brewers yeast several times this year on Beesource. It is an excellent product.
> :


Is this what you are talking about?

Not really sure why I need to, but I'll rephrase. Compared to other brewers yeast I have purchased in the past and taking price into consideration, I am totally happy with this product's smell, taste, appearance, quality, texture of finished product (Patties) and the results I get when I feed it to my bees. 
I hope it is not, but if it IS made overseas, I'll still use it. I feed GMO corn to my livestock too. I don't like it, but that is _*all that is available*_. (Unless I win the lottery and have money to burn on feed)

Ed at Mann Lake has been Emailed. You should expect your answers soon.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

OK folks, here it is. Ed's reply to this thread:

Hi Lauri,
Sorry for the delayed response. We’re doing inventory. Combine that with Monday, and I’m behind answering my email.

I’ll offer what I can, and let you post it.

Mann Lake uses multiple sources for its ingredients in our brewer’s yeast, including Aventine and Heineken. Regardless of source, none of it is ready made for honeybee feed. We blend yeasts to improve amino acid profile, along with re-milling all of it to ensure particle size is adequate for honeybee consumption along with providing better palatability. We are a manufacturer of Bee Specific feeds, not just blending off the shelf components. Our goal is to provide the Best Bee Feed Possible. 


Regarding adding brewer’s yeast to Ultra Bee: unnecessary and counterproductive. Ultra Bee already contains a Brewer’s yeast component and has been formulated to provide outstanding nutrition and balanced amino acid profile.

Really don’t think it’s fair that we provide information and others aren’t required too?? Seems that Keith may be using Bee Source as a direct marketing tool? Shouldn’t he be held to the same standards as others? How can he continue to post criticism without being forthright on his product makeup? Is he even registered with FDA?? Hmmmm…


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Lauri said:


> Really don’t think it’s fair that we provide information and others aren’t required too?? Seems that Keith may be using Bee Source as a direct marketing tool? Shouldn’t he be held to the same standards as others? How can he continue to post criticism without being forthright on his product makeup? Is he even registered with FDA?? Hmmmm…


Thank for your time Lauri, the question was, is the brewers yeast 100% USA sourced? that's OK they didn't answer the question. Our nutra bee is USA sourced like I mention early post, thanks again Lauri.


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## Waggle (Mar 7, 2013)

JStinson said:


> Keith, do you have any plans to sell in small batches in the future? If not, your bashing of an ingredient that small timers can use in their sub is really not helping anyone out. :


Keith....When will us small guys be able to purchase your product in smaller, say 50lb. quantities, so that we can try it and compare it to the other products that we can purchase in smaller quantities? Please answer clearly with no round-about goobledegook long winded diatribe. Thank You.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Watch out for that bus!:bus ...oops ....


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

I think it's kind of cool my bees are Heineken fed. opcorn:


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## DPBsbees (Apr 14, 2011)

Lauri said:


> I think it's kind of cool my bees are Heineken fed. opcorn:


I'd like my bees to have Chimay feed. Can we get Belgium yeast for our bees? Might as well feed them the best beer yeast in the world.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Waggle said:


> Keith....When will us small guys be able to purchase your product in smaller, say 50lb. quantities,


Well Waggle, the main problem we have is keeping up with the commercial beekeeping folks. I understand your question & It's a fair question to ask. We are building a new plant with intensions of being better able to supply the folks that just want a few boxes. We have still sent small oders out to beesource members like Mike Plamer,Trevor Mansell ect... it's just when your behind on the big orders that folks are making a living with get first shot. Now if I was advertizing small lots and did not fill them I could see where folks would be upset.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Waggle, what Keith is trying to say is...Call these guys, LOL

http://www.mannlakeltd.com/


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## Rusty Hills Farm (Mar 24, 2010)

At the risk of reigniting hostilities, I like Mega-Bee. It can be fed as a patty or a liquid and is available from most suppliers (including ML). That last one means I can add a bag to whatever order I am placing at the moment instead of being confined to just one supplier. And with this latest price increase, it's more economical than mixing my own. I've used it for years with good results.

As always, JMO

Rusty

:lookout:


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Rusty Hills Farm said:


> At the risk of reigniting hostilities, I like Mega-Bee.


Nah.... not here mate, I dont see anyone with a death grip on the key board, rather than just debating a thread. Lauri & RS love to gang up on me  If we all thought alike the world would be flat. 

P.S. I have in the last 30 years of beekeeping learned the most from the ones I disagree the most.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

... gang up .... :scratch: :lookout::lpf:

Keith does most of the damage all by himself. For example ....


Keith Jarrett said:


> RS, do you have any Ideal who you are talking too .... Do you think I can just go out my back yard and snap a picture , Do you understand that it's sub time for me and I have semi's back up for days, Not to mention thousand's of hives in muti-states do you understand that my day starts at 3:00 am SEVEN days a week right now. NO, by your remarks you have made I didn't think so. Ask around this fourm many know me well.... you EVER plan on walking in my shoes you best eat your Wheaties!



:gh:


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

I don't think we gang up on you, but you might feel better if you take off that shirt with the BULLS EYE on the front

(101 yard Bigfoot target, Redding Ca National Safari shoot)









That reminds me, Keith did you ever get a chance to take a photo of a frame of brood fed with your product that wasn't 'dry'? That thread went on forever too and I think we all would like to see some evidence of your products results.

If you don't want us to reply to your posts, don't ask us questions. You call us on OUR stuff, we call you on yours right back. No ganging up here. Just a good debate.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Posted twice for some reason


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

I knew you wouldn't let me down RS.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Lauri said:


> I don't think we gang up on you,.


I was joking.... photo, Lauri, I will, right now theres snow all over the place. But when it warms up here I'll get my wifes phone and take a couple.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Lest there be any doubt about who started this particular dust-up, just go back to the first page of this thread and look at post #3 by Keith. 

Consider that in later posts, he says he already knows the answer to the question he asked in post #3. 

One might think the only reason to ask the question in the first place was to ...uhhh ... add some manure to the rotating air handler.  :lpf:




:gh:


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> Lest there be any doubt about who started this particular dust-up, just go back to the first page of this thread and look at post #3 by Keith.
> 
> Consider that in later posts, he says he already knows the answer to the question he asked in post #3.
> 
> ...


How do you arise at that, I asked three questions how is that adding manure?? I really dont see your point here.


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## RAK (May 2, 2010)

These yeast and sub threads are little tense.

Why take pics of brood?
Me thinks Lauri and RS need some samples. Maybe they'll be hooked.

... and maybe I need a box at my door. Stuff getting too expensive to make. We hit .70 plus all that labor and shipment headaches. Wouldnt mind paying an extra cuarenta for a USA made product.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

If I tried it and like it I would be happy to endorse the product. I am picky and tell it like it is, no sugar coating. If it is a miracle product, just average or just hype.
But since it is not available in small quantities, my endorsement won't do any good. According to Keith, he can sell all he can make to the commercial outfits already. There would be no reason to let me try it, other than maybe I'd leave him alone on Beesource when he calls me out.

Good Lord, I'm not entirely sure what his reaction would be if I agreed with him and told him he was da man:banana:


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

Rusty Hills Farm said:


> Mega-Bee. It can be fed as a patty or a liquid and is available from most suppliers (including ML).


Could not find it on ML site.

I have used it and like it.


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## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

I know there are a few 50 pound sacks of nutri-bee out there on the shelves of beesource supporters...........When was it that Keith donated them...? I don't like the intrigue, but appreciate his financial support of this web site.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

Actually, Mega-Bee is available, as per the manufacturer's website -- here.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

> When was it that Keith donated them...? 

The Nutra-Bee auction (proceeds going to Beesource) that Keith generously donated sub for was at the very end of 2011. Here's the thread:
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?262759-Nutra-bee-auction


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Ok then...  a beesource fund riser again, I will ship a box to any member that donates $$$????? what do you guys think is fine with me. 

Lauri, we agree more than not, I know it maybe hard to see at times, I read sometime ago that you were active in wounded warriors project.... We give HEAVILY to them as well. Nothing better than FREE speech, BUT, it does not come with out a heavy price payed by the Men & Women of our armed forces..


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## DPBsbees (Apr 14, 2011)

Keith, How about $125? Actually that's too cheap for a fund raiser. I'd do $200.


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## Rusty Hills Farm (Mar 24, 2010)

FlowerPlanter said:


> Could not find it on ML site.
> 
> I have used it and like it.



My bad! Mega Bee is available from Dadant, Walter Kelley, and Brushy Mountain, but not ML. Dadant and Walter Kelley are the 2 suppliers who most often come to Alabama bee functions, and I usually pick up an order then to save shipping charges.

Rusty


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Keith Jarrett said:


> I asked three questions how is that adding manure??


Actually, my bees like manure. Or maybe it's the minerals and electrolytes. 










Seriously, it's the reason I started adding electrolytes to my patties. The bees go crazy over the drainage holes in my fruit trees planted in compost. No it's not just the water, they have plenty..This is a November photo in Washington state.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

It's why I add a little bit of micronized Azomite to my pollen sub recipe.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Interesting Joseph! I'd never heard of that stuff. Might have to experiment a bit.

Heres a couple links if you are interested in what Joseph is talking about:
http://www.7springsfarm.com/azomite-for-plants-micronized-powder-44lb/

http://www.arbico-organics.com/product/micronized-azomite/779


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## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

Lauri said:


> Interesting Joseph! I'd never heard of that stuff. Might have to experiment a bit.
> 
> Heres a couple links if you are interested in what Joseph is talking about:
> http://www.7springsfarm.com/azomite-for-plants-micronized-powder-44lb/
> ...


I'll jump on the band wagon this time. Thanks for the heads up.


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## JSL (Sep 22, 2007)

Hi Everyone,

Joseph, may I ask what the purpose of Azomite is in pollen supplement? It is nearly 66% silica oxide, a common virtually indigestible substance that is used as an abrasive substance.

At the risk of self promotion... I do offer vitamin and mineral supplements designed specifically for honey bees.

Please be careful what you feed your bees.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

I was thinking about adding it to my compost in the pots and letting the enriched water drain. Do a few pots and see if there is any difference in interest. I do have to say, since I have been adding the electrolyte/vitamin mix to my syrup and patties, they have not congregated near as much around the pots this year.
Generally interest in drain holes starts in mid summer. (With Plenty of other water resources available)

Heres a short video of the bees on the pots. They actually were eating out or removing the compost somewhat. By the end of the season all drain holes were hollowed out about 2".
This video was taken in fall of 2012. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zq3gd9JvWx4

( I live near the Sheriffs range, no need to duck and run


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## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

JSL said:


> ....At the risk of self promotion... I do offer vitamin and mineral supplements designed specifically for honey bees.
> 
> Please be careful what you feed your bees.


Welp, Dr Joe, we would be remiss not to offer you a chance to share your secret recipes with us, we won't tell anyone. We'll ask Kieth to turn his head while you type.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

How about we make this agreement, when ML or any of the other sub makers reveal their detailed ingredient list with the public, we'll ask Joe and Keith to do the same. Until then, we respect their right to hold some details back as it is proprietary.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

It's just not the same without ole Chef Iassic


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

The micronized Azomite is ground to a very fine flour-like consistency. I add a very tiny amount to the sub, less than 1% of the dry weight, about 1/2 teaspoon per 5 lbs, before adding the moistening syrup.

I've been using it in my gardening, with good results. I've read of it being used as an animal feed supplement. So I added a little to a batch of pollen sub. It didn't kill them, so I decided to keep using it, and hoping to see positive results (over time), but if I see negative effects, I'll quit. Meanwhile, it's too cheap not to try.


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## JSL (Sep 22, 2007)

Joseph,

I thought that might be the case. However, my concern is with the silica oxide. Large animals have no problem with the finely ground silica oxide crystals, but insects do. Plants use silica oxide as a natural defense against plant feeding insects as the crystals damage mouth parts and perhaps portions of the digestive tract as well, although I am not certain of the second part.

Best,
Joe


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

I too am hopeful, yet cautious. That's why I'm keeping a careful eye on their response. I'm hoping it's not as bad as Diatomaceous Earth would be. And with such a small percentage, perhaps it can be more beneficial, than otherwise. I'm also thinking about possibly leaching some of the beneficial's out with a weak citric acid solution, and trying it that way. I already use such a solution to dissolve sugar in, to make my syrup. Chelating many of the trace minerals, and introducing them, that way, in solution. Of course citric acid would also dissolve some of the silica oxide.

I've already been feeding this version to my cell builder colonies, since late August, early September 2013, and I'm watching them closely. So far, there haven't been any obvious harmful effects.

Many products, including soy flour already often contain some crystalline silica contamination.

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My inspiration for trying the Azomite in pollen sub:

Much of our garden is in 25 gallon pots (makes it easier for my wife, in her wheelchair, to access). Early this past Summer, I first began using Azomite to fertilize the plants in these pots. Though I have many watering spots for my bees, throughout our yard and garden, both intentional and runoff from the garden, after adding the Azomite to the garden, the bees suddenly preferred drinking at the drain holes of the potted garden plants, with the Azomite. Of course they don't get much of the insoluble silica by drinking this drainage water. Many of my pots look nearly identical to the photo Lauri has shared, above.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

Joe,
I am aware of your vitamin/mineral additive. Unfortunately, my budget is quite limited, though I realize your product is quite likely well worth the price. I hope to be able to try some, one day.

The Azomite only contains trace minerals that may be important for plant and animal nutrition, and not vitamins, but it is very low priced and fits my budget for multiple use product - garden, quail, and now bees.


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## chickenia (Apr 13, 2012)

I just spoke with Per at Aventine, and their yeast is made with GMO corn, and the price is not but a few dollars less than MannLake unless you get large quantities.


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## chickenia (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi Keith,
I am a third year BK, and am wondering what the reason is that I cannot buy Nutra-Bee supplements from you. It seems there are MANY smaller scale BK's that 'could' grow in their business if they had the help they need to help their colonies survive. Just wondering the common sense of it all and it you could help? Thanks so much!


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## chickenia (Apr 13, 2012)

This may be a dumb question...has anyone ever tried out, just to see, Lewis Labs Brewer's yeast, which is GMO free and from France. It is expensive, I found Blue Bonnet BY Gmo free and all natural, is it different than the BYeast you buy in bulk? AND, will it harm the bees?


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