# Honey should not be put in plastic containers.



## JerseyBees

I would think that all beekeepers know the benefits of RAW uncooked honey. Above 118 degrees beneficial enzyme destruction begans. Raw honey will crytallize depending on a vareity of factors. If it is put in plastic, leaching of plastic will get into the honey. More so if it is heated, to bring it back to liquid. Yes I know their is a economic reason for the plastic. But it is wrong to use plastic.

http://www.thenhf.com/articles_107.htm


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## Sundance

A bit of a generalization. The only plastics found to leach are #3 (the PVC type) as well as 6 and 7. Numbers 1,2 4, and 5 have not been associated with a leaching problem at all.

Just check the bottoms of the bottles if you have concerns, the number is usually found there.

http://www.deliciousorganics.com/Controversies/plastic.htm


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## Sundance

The main reasons I use glass is that is is a non-petroleum based product and has a nice sales appeal that plastic just can't match.


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## Aspera

Glass is less permeable to oxygen and UV light. It also insulates better against temperature fluctuations. The only really good thing about plastic is that its recyclable (and cheap). This help with product freshness. Just think about how much better glass jar milk or wine tastes. Just my opinion.


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## Sundance

No doubt Aspera..... A rare find is milk in glass nowdays........ too darn bad. And I see that beer is switching to plastic bottles too.....


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## Dick Allen

>Just think about how much better glass jar milk or wine tastes.

well, of course, back in those days it wasn't homogenized. sure it tasted better.


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## Keith Benson

Soooo, anyone care to compare the fossil fuels needed to produce and ship a glass jar vs a plastic jar?

Keith

[ June 18, 2006, 01:35 PM: Message edited by: kgbenson ]


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## Aspera

That's why I make my own beer and honey and buy locally produced milk (in reusable glass jars). Of course I am guilty of buying many bottles of wine (PA wine just isn't as good).


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## Sundance

"Soooo, anyone care to compare the fossil fuels needed to produce and ship a glass jar vs a plastic jar?"

No


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## SilverFox

I'll use plastic jars when I ship my honey to friends or family members, vacuum pack it so no leaks if the jar cracks . So far no problems.
Knowing how packages may get handled through the mail, don't want friends and family having to pick out glass to enjoy my gift to them.


"Soooo, anyone care to compare the fossil fuels needed to produce and ship a glass jar vs a plastic jar?

Keith"


I'm with SunDance on this NO
The plastic jars I use are recycled I use the Peanut Butter and clean, wash then refill with my honey. Sooooo, any one care to estamate from what I saved the enviroment from??

[ June 19, 2006, 02:05 AM: Message edited by: SilverFox ]


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## SilverFox

That web site (talking about the harvest says the following:

"At the end of the season when they are ready to extract the honey, conventional bee keepers will kill the bees with calcium cyanide and carbolic acid."  :


Sundance That quot came from that organic site you provided. 
I don't know of may that do that.
Maybe the BEEK that from foreign lands and keep bees here. I do know of one group, but that is their way.


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## MichaelW

I'm pretty sure the #1 plasics also have decomposition problems. Your not supposed to reuse the #1 bottles. I used to reuse 2 liter #1 soda bottles as water bottles and witnessed many of them decompose till they started leaking. I now reuse #2 bottles and they hold up beyond when I loose them.

I would put honey in #2, but prefer glass. Glass reuses very well and holds up in the dish washer. Plus it has a nice feel. However, even glass will absorb oders and I'm careful not to reuse my pickle jars for milk jars. I don't know how any of you people can drink that homogonized crap.


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## SilverFox

Pickle jars can be deodorized by using a strong baking soda and HOT water mix and letting stand for a day or two, might have to repeat once or twice. But it works.  Least wise I've done it and had no pickle oder or taste.


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## Finman

What about other food stuffs? Are they good in blastic packages. And a human, packed in the car which have plastic furnishing. 

And computing my plastic computer and mouse? 

Where you Jersey find all this world end news and you succeed to connect them to honey? Are you going to stop honey consumption? 

.


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## Michael Bush

>I would think that all beekeepers know the benefits of RAW uncooked honey.

You would think a lot of things that aren't true. You would think that beekeepers would be the first to recognize how bad pesticides are since they lose bees to them all the time, yet most put them in their hives. You'd think that beekeepers would be aware of the futility of using antibiotics against AFB, yet this is a common practice, despite advice from the experts to the contrary. Yes you would think beekeepers would be aware of many things that they are not.

>Raw honey will crytallize depending on a vareity of factors.

A lot of factors. Raw tupelo pretty much won't.

> If it is put in plastic, leaching of plastic will get into the honey.

Back in the early days of plastic this was a problem. Its why we now have "food grade" plastic.

>But it is wrong to use plastic.

I would think that most people would know that it's wrong to tell people in unequivocal terms that they are wrong. It's disrespectful and disrespect is wrong. If you wish to point out some studies on leaching of chemicals from current food grade plastic, feel free.


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## SilverFox

"I would think that most people would know that it's wrong to tell people in unequivocal terms that they are wrong. It's disrespectful and disrespect is wrong. If you wish to point out some studies on leaching of chemicals from current food grade plastic, feel free."
Michael Bush; Well said, I totally agree with you , maybe with you saying it people will listen, I've tried to mention it before, but not as eloquently as you just did.


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## Keith Benson

Re-cycling panut butter jars - kudos to you. If you have more than 1-2 hives though you would have to eat a lot of peanut butter. . . . 

Keith


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## tarheit

"conventional bee keepers will kill the bees with calcium cyanide and carbolic acid."

Wasn't this a fairly common practice in far northern climate (canada), when package bee prices where cheap and the border was still open. A new package (probably at half the price they are now or less) was cheaper than the 120lb of honey required for overwintering plus the savings have not having to do any meds. Then of course it's fairly easy to do organic (assuming you have a virtually unpopulated location), though I think it missed part of the point of organic.

-Tim


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## Cyndi

I'm planning to recycle all my quart size honey jars that I've bought from our local beekeeper in the past before I had bees, this beekeeper says she never wants the jars back. So, all that $$ I spent buying her honey, I now have a zillion quart and half quart size jars to fill up with my bees honey (my first honey crop this year), great idea huh?









I do however like to use those little plastic honey bears when travelling. I don't think the honey stays in the container long enough to do any damage...it get's eaten pretty quickly around my house and when I'm on the road. Otherwise I like to use glass for everything, just because I like the quality. There is nothing like eating from a wooden bowl, it doesn't get hot from soups and is easy to handle. I drink tea and chai from my decorative Japanese tea cups...my daily ritual, with honey from a cool glass honey dispenser from Williams-Sonoma.


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## AstroBee

A couple of years ago I used exclusively plastic because of shipping costs. Since, I have switched to all glass because I prefer the look and feel and further trust the integrity of it. During the transition from plastic to glass I found that the majority of my customers perfer the glass over plastic - in fact I had some customers who wouldn't buy when all I had in stock was plastic. This year I'm going completely glass.


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## SilverFox

kgbenson; Right now I've got 15, 14 of those have 3 supers on all in 9 frame configuration and to top it off I only have a 2 frame extractor that is a hand crank  . A bigger one is in the makings. But the person making it can't get it to me till next year.

[ June 19, 2006, 04:30 PM: Message edited by: SilverFox ]


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## Jim Fischer

> I would think that all beekeepers know the 
> benefits of RAW uncooked honey.

Well, let's see here... Except for the days of 90
F temps that resulted in the supers being close
to (or over!) 100 F, sure... all beekeepers
"know". Better than that, most are not
capitalized enough to afford things like flash 
heaters and such, so they are limited to whatever
heat mother nature provides.

> Above 118 degrees beneficial enzyme destruction
> begans. 

While it is not hard at all for even those who
flash heat honey to keep it under 118 F, what
do we say to beekeepers who live in the hotter
areas, like the Southwest, where temps are 110 F
on a regular basis during blooming periods?
Did they "cook" their honey?

> If it is put in plastic, leaching of plastic 
> will get into the honey. 

While it may be true that *some* types of
plastic can leach BPA, we have no idea:
</font>
*Which* type(s) of plastic this might be</font>
If this type of plastic is used in commonly
available honey containers</font>
If this leaching can occur when the plastic
comes into contact with honey</font>
Why no one has detected any level of contamination
despite intense scrutiny by importing countries
looking for a "public health" basis to reject
imports, many which come in plastic containers</font>
Offhand, I'd have to dismiss all of this as 
unsupported even by the scare story cited,
regardless of the plausibility of the claims
made in the scare story itself.

> More so if it is heated, to bring it back to 
> liquid. 

Says who? We have now moved from speculation
piled atop vague generalities to complete and
unfounded conclusions drawn from _unrelated_
vague claims!

> Yes I know their is a economic reason for the 
> plastic. But it is wrong to use plastic.

Until you have actual evidence of some sort to
support your claims, it is unreasonable to say
that using plastic containers is "wrong".

Sorry to be so blunt, but I call 'em as I see 'em,
and my conclusion is:

_You trolled. You lost. Have a nice day._


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## Hillside

Polyethylene Terephthalate rocks. 

The bottle looks great.
It's light.
You can squeeze it.
You can drop it.
You can ship it for almost nothing.
It's reasonably inexpensive.
It holds a label well.


Have you ever seen a glass bottle producing plant? Did you notice the amount of energy it takes to make a glass bottle? Per unit, it's huge. Plastic has a bad name, but by the time you make the glass and mold it to shape, I find it hard to believe glass has any significant environmental advantage over polyethylene. And then you still have to ship it.

When I first starting using PETE, I read a study of what chemicals leached from the plastic into various types of food. The amounts were extremely small -- a few parts per billion. None of the leaching compounds were considered to have any adverse effects even if they were at much higher concentrations. I would worry more about what kinds of things my bees were picking up out there in the wide world that could get into my honey.


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## Keith Benson

"kgbenson; Right now I've got 15, 14 of those have 3 supers on all in 9 frame configuration and to top it off I only have a 2 frame extractor that is a hand crank 

You sir, need at least a 9 framer - but with that much to extract, I'd get an 18+ motorized. Why wait, get one from a bee supplier instead of having it fabricated. With that 2 frame extractor its going to take you weeks to get that crop processed.

And "good on yer" for all that honey!

Keith

[ June 20, 2006, 07:20 AM: Message edited by: kgbenson ]


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## MichaelW

Great posts!

>"I find it hard to believe glass has any significant environmental advantage over polyethylene"

Zero significant environmental advantage I'd say.

-factoids

-It takes the same amount of energy to recycle a glass bottle into a new bottle than to make one from sand. (I still recycle them because of quarries)

-Plastic bottles cannot be recycled into more plastic bottles, they are only able to recycle them into other products. New bottles are made from new plastics.

The only SIGNIFICANT change in environmental impact that can be had is if everyone, everywhere starts reusing their containers, whichever material they may be made out of. "Plastic or glass?" is only a choice in ascetics. 

Container reuse at such a scale is problematic at best. I certainly wouldn't run around town picking up 5 jars here, 30 there. For honey, you need a bulk tank where people come in and fill-up. But then you give up on marketing, convienience, brand recognition, store space for multiple tanks, the list goes on and on. And keep in mind, most of those issues are completely out of the hands of the producer.

With any environment issues, it helps to keep off a high horse, look at the facts, stay realistic, make changes where you can, and save the rest for later.

[ June 20, 2006, 08:26 AM: Message edited by: MichaelW ]


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## iddee

In the late seventies, our great scientists came out with the "fact" that bacon will cause cancer. Everybody was talking adout it and trying to get bacon outlawed. Then someone decided to test a little farther. It was found that if you were to eat 250 lb. of bacon daily for 300 years, you wuold most likely get cancer.

I think honey in plastic is a definite danger the the human anatomy if one eats 100 gallons daily for more than 200 years. The leaching may even be deadly.

I will continue using plastic and glass, both for conveniencs and customer choice.


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## SilverFox

The 2 frame didn't cost me anything, it was given to me, and the extractor be fabrcated for me is being made out of stainless steel pipe by a friend that works with nothing but stainless steel. It will br solid being made out of the same thickness as my decapping tank (ask anyone that has seen my de-cap tank) he also putting a 'sanitary' vaulve on it. The thickness of the material I won't have to worry about is crushing or denting, unless I ram my truck into it.


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## Keith Benson

Post some pics when you get the thing - sounds interesting.

Keith


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## buckbee

MB said,
>
You would think a lot of things that aren't true. You would think that beekeepers would be the first to recognize how bad pesticides are since they lose bees to them all the time, yet most put them in their hives. You'd think that beekeepers would be aware of the futility of using antibiotics against AFB, yet this is a common practice, despite advice from the experts to the contrary. Yes you would think beekeepers would be aware of many things that they are not.

Well said, Michael. Any ideas on how to convince the bullet-headed British Beekeeping Association to stop endorsing pesticides as 'safe for bees' when they are patently not?


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## WhitetopMtn

While I am as concerned about the environment as anyone, my reason for using glass is that a glass jar of honey presents itself a lot better than plastic. A lot of honey consumers are very health and environment concious and, right or wrong, believe that plastic is bad for them and the environment. 

That being said, plastic is great if you are shipping.


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## Michael Bush

>Any ideas on how to convince the bullet-headed British Beekeeping Association to stop endorsing pesticides as 'safe for bees' when they are patently not?

Repeat yourself a lot?

I don't think anyone can convince anyone of something they don't want to believe.

People see what they expect to see.


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## Grant

Jim Fischer wrote: "We have now moved from speculation piled atop vague generalities to complete and unfounded conclusions drawn from unrelated vague claims! Sorry to be so blunt, but I call 'em as I see 'em..." 

Response: But that's what I appreciate most about you, Jim.

Grant
Jackson, MO


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## Jim Fischer

> Any ideas on how to convince the bullet-headed 
> British Beekeeping Association to stop endorsing
> pesticides as 'safe for bees' when they are 
> patently not?

I think that the actual position here was that
some pesticides are much much safer than others
when used per label, and the BBA was getting
behind a _reasonable_ position, which is
that growers are going to use some sort of
pesticides, so better to "endorse" ones that
were much much less toxic to bees. The whole
saga is replete with intrigue, hurt feelings,
and paranoid delusions of conspiracies.

The problem is that money changed hands as a 
part of the deal, so those who objected to the 
"endorsement" may well have objected simply 
_because_ money changed hands.

But the money was small potatoes, even for the 
BBA. Not enough to change minds or get anyone 
to lie, in my view.

Believing in conspiracies has one advantage
for those who indulge in them. It is a great
excuse, in that it puts control of reality
itself in the hands of shadowy "others".

If the power behind everything is unknowable 
and beyond everyone's control, we can avoid 
having to take responsibility for our own 
actions, the actions of those who we know, 
and the consequences of those actions.

So, those who speak of conspiracy can avoid
admitting to themselves that a majority of
the elected "board of directors" voted "yes", 
and had good and rational reasons for doing so.


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## Kurt Bower

WhitetopMtn says 
"While I am as concerned about the environment as anyone, my reason for using glass is that a glass jar of honey presents itself a lot better than plastic."
This thread continues to be perpetuated by opinoin. And isnt it nice that every one has one!
I sell 75-100 lbs of honey every saturday and more of it is in plastic than in glass. I let the consumer decide. So far plastic wins (they think the bear is cute  . 
I am not sure which plastic whitetop is using but there are plenty of very nice plastic containers that equal the look of glass. http://beeequipment.com/products.asp?pcode=496 

A lot of people talk about using recycled containers. I for one will not give my customers a used container. Would anyone like it if their grocery items came in "recycled " (used) containers?

Kurt

[ July 18, 2006, 04:58 AM: Message edited by: Kurt Bower ]


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## SilverFox

Ahhhhhh-The power of verryy hot water and good dish soap  
You'd be surprised how much of your food DOES come in 'recycled' containers and it goes thru much the same process as a dishwasher, except for being remelted and reformed.
Your right when you say "This thread continues to be perpetuated by opinoin." 
So far no one that gets my honey has complained about the jars being 'recycled', and they all know that I reuse jars.


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## Kieck

I think Hillside earlier hit on, perhaps, the biggest advantage of plastic over glass in the minds of consumers. You can SQUEEZE it. Think of the convenience -- it's easier to dispense honey from a squeezable plastic container than from a glass container. That, and the fact that plastic containers are much less likely to break when dropped, is an advantage of plastic.

Now, what I'd really be curious to see is whether people could tell the difference in a blind taste test between honey from the same batch stored in glass and stored in plastic. Has anyone tried it?


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## Dick Allen

Heck Kieck, many people cant tell the difference between Coke and Seven-Up in a blind taste test, and thats not just an urban legend. 

We did that at work once, too. Less than 50% of those who tried could tell the difference.


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## Kieck

Coke and Seven-Up??? I could understand Coke and Pepsi, but Coke and Seven-UP?

If those people can't tell the difference between Coke and Seven-Up (or Pepsi), I doubt they could tell the difference between milk from a glass bottle and milk from a plastic bottle. I also doubt they could taste a difference between honey from a glass container and honey from a plastic container.


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## Dick Allen

Yep, its true. Its also been reported on the internet, so now you know its gospel.  

This comes from a forum on beer and homebrewing:

Regarding the flavor of cola, try this at home: have someone give you
a blind taste test between Coke and Seven-Up. Ten of us did this test
and only one of us could consistently identify which was which. What
does this prove? That soda pop aromas are non-descript (except for
root beer, maybe) and lemon-lime doesn't taste very different from
cola. 
http://www.hbd.org/hbd/archive/1227.html#1227-20 

I didnt actually take the test at work, but I administered it to some of my co-workers. Some could tell the difference some of the time, some couldnt.

Try it sometime.

Edit: I agree, I don't think anyone could tell the difference between honey bottled in glass or honey bottled in plastic, either.

[ July 18, 2006, 05:06 PM: Message edited by: Dick Allen ]


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## Kurt Bower

Interesting that no one adressed the legality of putting honey in used containers for retail sale.
If it is going to family or friends that is one thing, but what about FDA bottling regulations for honey retail sale to the public?


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## SilverFox

Then again; how many reuse canning jars??
Isn't that also re-cycling??
I think as long as the container is clean, and knowing that no bacteria will grow in raw honey, well-------draw your own conclusion.


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## danno1800

My customers at the Farmers' Market LOVE the glass quart & pint Mason jars I sell my honey in. Many of them mention to me that they prefer my honey to others offered at the same price because they get the jar to re-use for canning and other things when the honey is gone. The price is about the same for me, so I prefer using glass these days.

[ July 19, 2006, 10:34 AM: Message edited by: danno1800 ]


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## GeeBeeNC

_Would anyone like it if their grocery items came in "recycled " (used) containers?_

Hey, I financed my entire childhood gathering containers to recycle for grocery items. Most of them I picked up from the side of the road.

I expect that most anyone over 45 who is reading this also collected the depossit on at lest a few soft drink bottles.


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## MichaelW

"Interesting that no one adressed the legality of putting honey in used containers for retail sale.
If it is going to family or friends that is one thing, but what about FDA bottling regulations for honey retail sale to the public? "

I don't know the specifics, but Weigels Farm Stores, actually a gas station chain, reused their milk container for years and years, till they recently gave in to the disposables.

There are organic/health food/locally grown stores where the buyers prefer and provide recycled food containers. One in particular, has a bulk honey tank where you fill up your jar or one thats sitting there that came from...somewhere.


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## Kieck

Here's another monkeywrench to throw into the discussion (off the line of the current thought, but relevant to the issue anyway):

If honey should not be put in plastic containers because some of the chemicals in the plastic might be harmful, then no plastic foundation or comb should be used in the hives, either. No plastic frames, no plastic parts in the hives. Maybe no plastic buckets to hold honey during extraction, nor plastic lines to carry honey during extraction or storage or bottling.


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## Kurt Bower

Stating that people have used recycled containers doesn't necessarily make it legally acceptable.
Are there regulations?


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## ScadsOBees

I use recycled plates and silverware every time I eat at a non-fast-food restaurant. I'm pretty sure it's legal as long as it passes the health inspection. Milk companies did it for years(and a few still do).

Of course there are regulations...we have a government!







I don't know where, though.


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## MichaelW

There is no way Weigels reused their milk containers without the legal right to do it. They are a big chain and the milk was popular. 

I'm sure there are regulations somewhere. I've found food regulations difficult to wade through so I'll leave that up to someone whom needs to do it.


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## Kieck

I know it's legal to reuse containers if they're properly cleaned and handled, but the discussion has included a lot of people who are using other forms of containers to hold honey.

For instance, if you reuse a peanut butter jar for honey, I'd imagine you'd have to add a discloser to the jar. Something like, "This container was previously used for products containing peanuts." Otherwise, someone with a severe allergy to peanuts might have a problem and sue you.

But leaving all that aside, if you're trying to market your honey, I think "brand" recognition is important. Consumers might look for exactly the same type of container from you time after time, with the same labels on them. If you try to sell a bunch of assorted containers (some reused pickle jars, some canning jars, some reused mayonnaise jars, a few plastic bears, etc.), buyers will have a more difficult time identifying your honey from others out there.

Besides, think of the appeal to the consumer: would you rather buy milk in a reused mayonnaise jar, or a new plastic carton? What if the next time you went to buy milk, you found the same brand in a canning jar, and the next time you found it in a reused peanut butter jar?

Now, even if you don't mind the reused jars, what do you think most people in this society would prefer?

I think one of the big distinctions comes between trying to sell your honey and simply giving honey to people. As far as reusing containers, I urge everyone who gets some of the honey from my bees to return the plastic bears for reuse. Of the hundreds I've given out, I've only had a handful (less than 10, for sure) come back to me to be refilled. My mom used to give some home-canned jams, jellies, etc., as gifts, too, and always mentioned that if the recipients returned the jars, the jars could be reused. Very, very few people ever returned the jars.


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## MichaelW

"I think "brand" recognition is important. "

Thats the main problem with the honey bulk tank in the store I mentioned. Its a consumer initiated issue that is difficult for the producer to change. However, there is still other consumers that are looking for and selecting food items in such bulk containers. I guess ideally in that situation I would want my honey in both the bulk tank and on the shelf.


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## SweetBettyBees

I love traditional honey jars. Nothing says honey like a glass Queenline or a mason quart with a chunk of comb floating in it. All that said, there's nothing quite as cute as a squeeze bear with one of those little colored spouts for a cap...

For logistics' sake, a sqeeze bottle means less waste (of honey), for asthetics there's nothing like glass. I may as well let you guys know I've been working on a glass bear, but I haven't got the squeeze part worked out yet!









This, of all the forums, is far and away the most provocative!


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## JohnK and Sheri

Betty, I want one of them squeeze glass bears. In fact, I want to be your distributor!









We sell the majority of our honey in used 55gal metal drums, as do virtually all the wholesale producers. We take care that only food stuffs were used in them previously, the lining is good etc, but we have gotten drum exchanges from some of the big packers that I would certainly never use.  
For our onfarm retail sales we do use some new plastic, including 1 gal and 2 gal pails and 12 oz bears. In glass, I sell a lot of quart jars, which I buy new every year. Being in an area where lots of folks still do canning, they are very popular. I also use little octagon jars for chunk honey and fancier packaged gifts.
Folks also bring their own containers and fill them from our bulk tank, so whatever they are comfortable with.....
As for recycling, I recently was contacted by an elderly lady who had a lifetime's supply of 5# glass honey containers in her attic. Traded honey for them. We were both quite happy with the deal and I know my customers will love them.

>>>>"....., conventional bee keepers will kill the bees with calcium cyanide and carbolic acid." I don't know of many that do that.
Maybe the BEEK that from foreign lands and keep bees here.<<<<<
Some might consider Wisconsin a foreign land, lol, but up til the last 3-10 years the majority of the large commercial outfits and many of the sideliners up in this part of the world did just that, at least for part of their operation. I know of two operators, one retired now to about 20 but used to run about 300 hives, the other runs about 250, that still do this. Both gas off their bees every year and start with packages. They percieve it as cheaper than dealing with mites, feeding etc.
What really decreased this practice was the pollination incentives out west, and the quick rise of package prices.
Sheri


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## Finman

.


One fool may ask more than ten wise can answer. 

.


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## jim b

>Re-cycling panut butter jars - kudos to you. If you have more than 1-2 hives though you would have to eat a lot of peanut butter. . . . 

MMMMMMMmmmmmm.....Peanut butter and Honey sammiches.....One of my favorites!


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## cphilip

"A lot of people talk about using recycled containers. I for one will not give my customers a used container. Would anyone like it if their grocery items came in "recycled " (used) containers?

Kurt"

I told most of the people I gave Plastic bears (as well as the nice Medicine bottle style cork ones) to this year to save them and wash them out to thier own satisfaction and if they bring em back to me I would refill them for them for free. Not the operative word is "gave them" and if they don't bring em back... no Honey for you! I kept a couple of half gallon mason jars full of Honey just to refill from. But certainly I wouldn't sell em.


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## SilverFox

Jim b, Thany you for the kudos; Not all of my honey goes into re-cycled peanut butter jars some go into re-cycled and new canning jars. The honey I ship to friends around the country goes out in the peanut butter jars and I even vacuum pack (jar inside vac bag) the jars in case they get cracked (the jars that is).
Never had any problems so far.


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## Dick Allen

Seems there are two schools of thought. Some people think honey's image is diminished if it is packaged in mayonaise jars and the like. Yet, there was an ABJ article a few years back from a beekeeper who did sell his honey in recycled jars. He claimed his customers preferred them, and I wouldn't be surprised if the granola crowd did prefer recycled jars. Some people have different ideas. I think a good example would be that 'Really Raw Honey' being sold with debris floating around in it.

[ August 21, 2006, 01:16 AM: Message edited by: Dick Allen ]


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## rogerpelizzari108

Michael Bush said:


> >I would think that all beekeepers know the benefits of RAW uncooked honey. You would think a lot of things that aren't true. You would think that beekeepers would be the first to recognize how bad pesticides are since they lose bees to them all the time, yet most put them in their hives. You'd think that beekeepers would be aware of the futility of using antibiotics against AFB, yet this is a common practice, despite advice from the experts to the contrary. Yes you would think beekeepers would be aware of many things that they are not. >Raw honey will crytallize depending on a vareity of factors. A lot of factors. Raw tupelo pretty much won't. > If it is put in plastic, leaching of plastic will get into the honey. Back in the early days of plastic this was a problem. Its why we now have "food grade" plastic. >But it is wrong to use plastic. I would think that most people would know that it's wrong to tell people in unequivocal terms that they are wrong. It's disrespectful and disrespect is wrong. If you wish to point out some studies on leaching of chemicals from current food grade plastic, feel free.


 PETE #1 Plastic is UNSAFE Safer plastics include # 2-HDPE, #4-LDPE, or #5-PP PETE * #1* Polyethylene terephthalate plastic has been found to leach carcinogenic chemicals and has been outlawed by many states. "An Environmental Working Group investigation found that PETE plastic, the type used to make plastic water bottles and marked with a #1 code on the bottom, contains dozens of chemical additives, manufacturing impurities and breakdown byproducts – a total of more than 80 potential contaminants that can leach into the water. While it is unclear how many of these chemicals actually do leach from the plastic into the water, numerous scientific studies have shown that some definitely can. *They include formaldehyde, acetaldehyde and antimony."*


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## Hoot Owl Lane Bees

rogerpellizzari108

You do realize this thread is 14 years old?
Check the date at the top of the posts.


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## A Novice

Aspera said:


> Glass is less permeable to oxygen and UV light. It also insulates better against temperature fluctuations. The only really good thing about plastic is that its recyclable (and cheap). This help with product freshness. Just think about how much better glass jar milk or wine tastes. Just my opinion.


deleted - old thread, never mind.


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## A Novice

Hoot Owl Lane Bees said:


> rogerpellizzari108
> 
> You do realize this thread is 14 years old?
> Check the date at the top of the posts.


Thanks. it showed up under the NEW tab, and I didn't notice until after I posted...


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## William Bagwell

A Novice said:


> Recycling of plastics is pretty much just virtue signaling.


Pre-consumer plastic scrap is very widely recycled, post consumer waste is very hit or miss as you point out. Some is, most is not and much time and effort is spent pretending to do good. Worked in two different plastic factories so have seen the former first hand. Interviewed at a place that made giant wall panels out of (at least some) post consumer waste about ten years ago. Was not hired, and now see they are no longer around...


A Novice said:


> Thanks. it showed up under the NEW tab, and I didn't notice until after I posted...


Once it is 'bumped' it is new again, so not your fault.


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## Gypsi

I fell for it til I noticed the 2006, it came up as new


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