# Length of top bar hive



## Adam Foster Collins (Nov 4, 2009)

Hey Nate,

How are your bees doing so far? Is it really full at this point? How many bars are drawn out? When did you put your bees in? 35 inches is a small hive, but that's not the end of the world. Worse case is they swarm at some point or you have to split.

Adam


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## gird123 (Jun 26, 2011)

They have been struggling, but i think it is more me than them. I know nothing. They have about 16 bars. They swarmed once already. I think they got honey bound. I tried to get the swarm.


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## Beethinking (Jun 2, 2008)

Regardless of the length of the top bar hive, if they become honey bound they will most likely swarm. Depending on the weather, nectar sources, etc. they may build up quickly, bring in loads of honey, store it at the end of the hive, and then block off access for comb production and brood nest expansion. It can be helpful to either add some empty bars (a couple at a time) at the brood nest end, or add them between the brood nest and the honey stores. I've had a lot of calls this year, though, from top bar beekeepers using hives that are 30" or smaller, with brood running from one end of the hive to the other. That's a far more difficult problem to deal with. I'd go with hives that are at least 40" long and then manage them to ensure they've got space!

Best,
Matt


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## Adam Foster Collins (Nov 4, 2009)

Mine's 48" interior space and 56" including the landing board on the end. I wouldn't go any smaller that 48 myself and that seems to be workable.

Adam


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

All the ones I've built are 48". I wouldn't mind 60" but I think 48" is fine. Less than 40" is too short and even 40" would need long bars (wide hive) to make it work. The problem with a small hive is swarming. The problem with anything over 60" is getting them to move that far horizontally. Brother Adam in his adventures never found a long hive longer than five feet.


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## Adam Foster Collins (Nov 4, 2009)

I've thought about making telescoping hive - where the back 18" or so can slide out if it comes to needing the space. You'd just have to put a couple of inserts inside once extended, in order to keep the inside dimension consistent. Another foot in mine would equate to another 40 - 50 lbs of honey...

You know... 5 feet could actually be the magic number...

I you had trouble getting the bees to get all the way back, you could think about putting a small opening in the side near the back end; maybe half inch hole.

I'll give it a try next year.

Adam


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## gird123 (Jun 26, 2011)

Could I just add a foot to one side(like a super) and drill a whole between? Maybe on the entrance side.


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## DeeAnna (Nov 5, 2010)

Why not make a new hive and transfer your bees to that? Might be less complicated in the long run. You could then use the small hive for a nuc or swarm.


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## Delta Bay (Dec 4, 2009)

My hives are 44.5" interior length. Each bar will hold comb that is comparable to the amount of comb a deep frame will hold. This basically will give a volume of three deep Langs. This size works well for my location which has an average annual honey harvest of 50lbs per hive. A non swarmed hive can fill this size hive in a decent season. I think it boils down to what volume size is suited for your location. 

I have also seen some of my hives expand brood out to the 22nd bar before putting up a honey barrier so I would say that your hive is probably too small.


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## rtoney (Apr 20, 2011)

I also have contemplated adding to a top bar to use as a super. I think I would extend 2 foot and see what happens. I don't want to get to technical and the bees will use it if they want and if they don't, oh well.


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## Adam Foster Collins (Nov 4, 2009)

Delta Bay said:


> ..I have also seen some of my hives expand brood out to the 22nd bar...


 I've seen that here as well.

Nate, DeeAnna's right. Building another box and transferring the is pretty easy. Even if you're not a woodworker, you can always use Phil Chandler's basic design (I'd make an end entrance though, personally) but his approach to the box is pretty simple to build and doesn't require really wide stock. Once you have the box made to the same dimensions, then the transfer is cake.

Adam


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I you had trouble getting the bees to get all the way back, you could think about putting a small opening in the side near the back end; maybe half inch hole.

In my experience this will just create an entrance that is likely to not be guarded which can set off robbing.


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## Delta Bay (Dec 4, 2009)

rtoney said:


> I also have contemplated adding to a top bar to use as a super.


I think supering your TBH is perfectly acceptable if you need the extra room. Options are good to have.


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## Adam Foster Collins (Nov 4, 2009)

How do you super, Delta? With a straight-sided box on top, and spacing the bars? Or do you have a sloped side super and a modified bar? I haven't figured out a comfortable way to super these.

For information's sake, I just figured out the capacity of my hives based on measuring the actual comb surface of a deep lang frame and the comb in my hives. A 48" hive which has 11" of height (due to sloped sides with 11.75" stock) and a 10" wide bottom board (72 degree angle on the sides) works out to roughly 24 deep frames of comb. That's three deep 8's or two deep 10's and a shallow(ish)

Now if a lang beek was only working with those boxes for a season, they too would have to do some management to keep space. In a good year, you might double that. 

Herein lies the core challenge to the top bar hive beekeeper.

Adam


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## Delta Bay (Dec 4, 2009)

I haven't needed to super my hives to this point. If more room was needed I would build a straight-sided box to put on top. I would also cut the top bars to allow the bees to pass through to the super. If the hive is already full I would just space the bars to allow them up into the super.


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