# cutting grips in boxes



## SteveStevenson (Feb 14, 2014)

I think someone on Beesource has posted a way to cut the half moon grips in boxes using a skill saw. Anybody have the plans for that jig?


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## hivemaker (May 16, 2016)

It's Cleo Hoggan's brain child. search youtube.


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## crabbydad (Apr 29, 2012)

go to the bottom of this page to beesource.com, then up to the menu-build it yourself and you will see it, I made it, it works well.


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## jooky (Mar 18, 2016)

search youtube.. there is even a guy that does it freehand with a skillsaw.. looks scary but boy is it fast


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Here is a link to the Cleo Hogan handhold jig page mentioned in post #3 by _crabbydad_:
http://beesource.com/build-it-yourself/beehive-handhold-jig/

A video is also linked on that page.


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## jcummins (Feb 21, 2016)

Been looking at the same thing. There's also a youtube video of a table saw jig, and it is wayyyyy faster. I'm at the point of probably building that jig this week.


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## johnmcda (Aug 10, 2015)

I tried both - hard to beat Hogan's jig. Simple, Fast, Cheap!


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

jcummins said:


> Been looking at the same thing. There's also a youtube video of a table saw jig, and it is wayyyyy faster. I'm at the point of probably building that jig this week.


Have a link to the video?


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## jcummins (Feb 21, 2016)

jwcarlson said:


> Have a link to the video?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5yWQCARkUw


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## jcummins (Feb 21, 2016)

And another one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iw1XQw5TqeE

I like this guys sled a bit better....but appears he did not use a dado blade. I intend to do this sled and use a wobble type dado blade set to 1/2" like the first video.


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## jcummins (Feb 21, 2016)

The more I look, the more I find. I wonder how Mann Lake did their handholds. It has a different shape. I'm sure they use high speed shapers, not circular saw, or table saws......but here is how one guy is doing it, and gets that effect in the handhold that Mann Lake has. Dunno, got another method now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wft9XiR72J4


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## johngfoster (Nov 2, 2015)

Here's one using a radial arm saw:


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## kaizen (Mar 20, 2015)

man oh man those videos look like accidents waiting to happen. dropping wood onto a moving blade? loose gloves working on a tablesaw? esp the guy in the nice shop. his hand was in the path of that hidden blade. definitely stick some handles and hold downs on those jigs to keep your hands away from those blades.


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## Ski (Jan 18, 2007)

Can't seem to find it now but, there was a video on beesource that showed a sled and a router to make the hand holds. It was done after the box was assembled and was very quick. I was impressed.


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## hivemaker (May 16, 2016)

Other than safety these methods also destroy your saw. They are not designed for making a cut from the side of the blade. It puts stress on the internal components which they were not engineered to handle. Personally I would by the correct equipment or just use cleats.


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## hivemaker (May 16, 2016)

Other than safety these methods also destroy your saw. They are not designed for making a cut from the side of the blade. It puts stress on the internal components which they were not engineered to handle. Personally I would buy the correct equipment or just use cleats.


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## jcummins (Feb 21, 2016)

kaizen said:


> man oh man those videos look like accidents waiting to happen. dropping wood onto a moving blade? loose gloves working on a tablesaw? esp the guy in the nice shop. his hand was in the path of that hidden blade. definitely stick some handles and hold downs on those jigs to keep your hands away from those blades.


I noticed that too. His saw was not setup right. He needed the ability to stand beside his saw. The awkward manner of pushing the sled into the blade is asking for it. I never use gloves, and I don't understand the use of gloves at all. What's the purpose to keep your hands clean? With wood working it's NOT grip. I loose the feeling you need as to what you're doing.


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## jcummins (Feb 21, 2016)

kaizen said:


> man oh man those videos look like accidents waiting to happen. dropping wood onto a moving blade? loose gloves working on a tablesaw? esp the guy in the nice shop. his hand was in the path of that hidden blade. definitely stick some handles and hold downs on those jigs to keep your hands away from those blades.


I noticed that too. His saw was not setup right. He needed the ability to stand beside his saw. The awkward manner of pushing the sled into the blade is asking for it. I never use gloves, and I don't understand the use of gloves at all. What's the purpose to keep your hands clean? With wood working it's NOT grip. I loose the feeling you need as to what you're doing.


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## kaizen (Mar 20, 2015)

If I was going to make handholds I would make a router jig that was like a half moon using a staight bit. so it would sit on top of the assembled box and probably 3 passes would make a good sized cut.
I've been making my boxes out of plywood so i just glued and screwed oak to them as i didnt want to expose the plys any more then needed. i tested one i made last year like this hitting it with a hammer. very strong. ripped out 3 layers of ply before it broke off. i actually find it a lot better for grip with my aging hands


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

hivemaker said:


> Other than safety these methods also destroy your saw. .


With all due respect, I totally disagree with your statement.

Over the past 15 to 20 years, I have made thousands and thousands of hand holds on bee equipment, and I am still using the same saw, (changed the blade once, about 5 years ago, after I found that a heavy duty insert blade cut better than a thin kerf blade), and the saw, in fact it is still just fine.

Saw has not been destroyed.

cchoganjr


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## kaizen (Mar 20, 2015)

Cleo C. Hogan Jr said:


> With all due respect, I totally disagree with your statement.
> 
> Over the past 15 to 20 years, I have made thousands and thousands of hand holds on bee equipment, and I am still using the same saw, (changed the blade once, about 5 years ago, after I found that a heavy duty insert blade cut better than a thin kerf blade), and the saw, in fact it is still just fine.
> 
> ...


what kind of blade are you using that lasts for 5 years and thousands of these types of cuts? I have GOT to get me one.
as far as destroying a saw I think its a difference between direct drive and belt driven.


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## jcummins (Feb 21, 2016)

Cleo C. Hogan Jr said:


> With all due respect, I totally disagree with your statement.
> 
> Over the past 15 to 20 years, I have made thousands and thousands of hand holds on bee equipment, and I am still using the same saw, (changed the blade once, about 5 years ago, after I found that a heavy duty insert blade cut better than a thin kerf blade), and the saw, in fact it is still just fine.
> 
> ...


Did you notice in these videos how much easier the cut seemed using the dado blade than the regular saw blade which sings as you do the cut?


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

kaizen... My apologies. I was talking about making the hand hold with a Skil Saw not a table saw.

While it may look like (in the video) that the edge of the blade is doing the cutting, in my method, the edge of the blade only cleans out the hand hold. Cutting is done on down strokes, much the same as a miter saw. 

My Skil saw was $39.00 at Lowe"s many years ago, and I think the blades on all my saws are DeWalt, but, I would have to look.

I made the sled, and tried making them with a table saw, (direct drive Craftsman), but, I liked doing it better with the Skil Saw.


jccummins.... Yes, In my video made about 5 years ago, I was using a kerf blade, and yes, it did sing, but still did the job.. About the time I put it on UTube, someone suggested I use an insert type blade and that is when I changed the blade. And, true enough, a thicker blade eliminated the sing, but, I did not see a need to make the video over.

kaizen..... Again, my apologies, I was not talking about a table saw. I misread your post.

cchoganjr


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## kaizen (Mar 20, 2015)

oh no worries. Using the skill saw I think is better then using the table saw. a little less dangerous.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

kaizen... yes, I have never had a problem, of any kind, using my jig and the Skil Saw. BUT...Do be careful.

I worked for quite a while to come up with this jig, and design, because they wanted $3600 for the saw, and $1200.00 for the bit to make the one that Kelly Bee Company uses on their boxes. I was making about 1600 to 2400 hand holds per year. I put it on UTube about 5 years ago so others could also make commercial looking handles cheaply. Since then I have sent out probably 25,000 copies of the plans to make the jig, from the 75,000 + people who have viewed the operation on UTube.

When I started selling nucs and complete hives in 2002, I quit using rabbet joints and went to box joint, (just so they would look like commercial boxes),( rabbet joints work fine), and I wanted a "D" shaped handle that looked like the commercial boxes. Even tho I was making 400 to 600 boxes each year in the shop, (4 hand holds each), I could not afford $4800.00 for the commercial machine and bit. So, with the help of a friend, Lawrence Bartley, and close to a year, we came up with this jig, which costs about 50 cents to make, and a Skil saw someone could purchase for about $15 to $50 dollars, and they look close enough to the commercial boxes. And can be made in about 30 to 45 seconds each. With due care, it is safe, but, never take anything for granted. Stay on your toes when using power equipment.

cchoganjr


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## jcummins (Feb 21, 2016)

For anyone interested, I almost did not build this jig for cutting handles, and instead use the method of the one video of using a dado blade by lowering the board into the dado. It cuts a straight dado with no taper below the cut. What stopped me was I feel you don't have good control over the board. There is another video out there of a person doing that...AFTER the box was put together. That method does give you a sold control of the board as you lower it into the dado. I was going to post the link to the video...but I can't find it now. I may in the future do it that way. No jig to build, just some boards clamped into place as stops.

Anyway, I did build a jig. For grins I first tried just the saw blade....I knew that's not what you wanted to do, but I just wanted to see. And it was really hard on the saw blade to me. Lot of ringing. I WAS going to use a dodo blade, as in that one video, but in the comments, he later said he switched to a Craftsman 3 blade molding head. I just happen to have one, haven't used in years, but that's what I used. 

This worked...just ok. I experience some tear out on the trailing edge of the cut, on several boards. I had trouble getting the jig tuned in right, depth of cut, length, centered, that sort of thing. And several little tweaks to the jig do to slight errors my part. A one off jig usually for me has those kind of things. But for the most part....acceptable, but far from perfect. The method I mentioned of lower the boards into the dado, put the wood directly into the teeth of the blade. This jig comes from the side, and honestly I don't like that much. I got what wood I had cut for hives done...but next time I may do it differently.

The sled has blocks I made that go into it to accommodate different length side, and deeps or supers.


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

And now for a new twist:
I assemble my boxes first, use the dato on the table saw to remove the bulk of the material, then use the Hogan method to give it the finished look. Best of both worlds, 3 HP saw and dust collection, stops on the saw for preventing kick back and consistency and fancy taper looks.


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## jcummins (Feb 21, 2016)

minz said:


> And now for a new twist:
> I assemble my boxes first, use the dato on the table saw to remove the bulk of the material, then use the Hogan method to give it the finished look. Best of both worlds, 3 HP saw and dust collection, stops on the saw for preventing kick back and consistency and fancy taper looks.


Thar ya go. Although, I'd skip the 2nd part, since it's not really that functional, just pretty.


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## DrJeseuss (May 28, 2015)

I built the table saw jig. It makes the best holds I've done to date, clean and professional looking. After doing them on 20 new boxes (times four sides). By the end I noticed the saw struggling even under light load. Even with thin passes, the side pressure ruined the motor bearings. I had to spend to get my saw back running, and sadly won't use the jig again. I'm now considering a router jig or skil saw jig, but other projects make this wait.


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

I have used Cleo's jig on dozens of boxes since I found it last year. It does an excellent job, is safe, and I thank Cleo for passing on his knowledge and jig plans. G


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

DrJeseuss said:


> I built the table saw jig. After doing them on 20 new boxes (times four sides). By the end I noticed the saw struggling even under light load. Even with thin passes, the side pressure ruined the motor bearings..


Minz....This would seem to confirm what you had said.

cchoganjr


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

Cleo C. Hogan Jr said:


> Minz....This would seem to confirm what you had said.
> 
> cchoganjr


Sorry I was not clear. I just clamp stops to the table saw to insure each dato cut is the same length.
I cut the dato handles in the sides placing the box square to the saw on a front stop, cutting the hand hold front to back to the back stop. I move the stops for the short sides of the box. No side pressure on these cuts.
I then use your fantastic jig in a chop saw method using a skil saw to make the dato slot into a hand hold. Still no side pressure on the saw.
I do usually slide the saw down the final cut. This may be minor side pressure as I hit a high spot.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

I use cleo's jig after the boxes are built. I just use screws to hold it tight rather then clamping it. I say thanks for publishing the plans.
gww


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## challenger (May 27, 2009)

I have not used it for hand holds but I recently got a "blade" for a side grinder that is for carving wood. It looks like something Dr. Frankenstein would market BUT, if it was set up properly and safely, I bet it would make killer fast hand holds. Even a chainsaw, which is what this blade is pretty much, would be very effective again if properly set up for the job. Another, and most likely better, option would be to make a dedicated shaper just for the hand holds. It wouldn't take much to do this with a motor, pulleys, spindle etc etc. Then just order the proper cutter and be done with it. All depends on the volume needed I guess.


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## aldenmiller (Mar 21, 2016)

I made a jig for my tablesaw that has worked out nicely. I use a standard rip blade. My jig is at a 15 degree angle. I set the blade at 20 degrees and get a slight undercut on the handle to make for a better grip when lifting the boxes.

-Alden


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