# Building vs. Buying



## mtnmyke (Apr 27, 2017)

I'm curious if anyone has done the math on cost/time of building your own boxes, bottoms, tops vs just buying them. Wood is rather expensive where I live and the only things I've found to be most cost effective to build is my own nucs - since we know you can build 4 with a single sheet of plywood.

For example, Mann Lake sells a 5 pack of commercial grade 8 frame deeps for just under $80. A decent 4x8 sheet of plywood is going to run me around $36 - $50 (depending on the quality of plywood) but I doubt I could get 5 boxes out of that sheet. If I used the cheaper stuff (measuring .7 inches in thickness) then I could get two sheets for the price of 5 hive bodies and definitely make more than 5 boxes. However, this is of plywood and not solid wood so there is likely a quality difference. Not to mention all the jigs I'd need to cut joints (or stick to butt joints) and a dado bit to make things move along.

Is there a cheaper way I'm missing? Better to use 1x12 boards cut down (1x12x6 is about $15 locally)? If I'm making hundreds vs dozens does it become more cost effective? Buy the boxes and build the more expensive lids?

Simply curious on others economics as there seems to be articles, videos and a lot of talk around building your own stuff, without it seeming to make a lot of sense?


----------



## dudelt (Mar 18, 2013)

I try and be cheap but my time and out of pocket cost make building the boxes myself way more expensive. Plus, you will need to be sure you have all the equipment to do the job. If you don't, add those costs in too. I do make my own hive bottoms and nucs but it is done for the sole reason of boredom in the winter. I currently have all the equipment I need and am not buying or building very much these days.


----------



## Steve in PA (Jan 26, 2015)

I build my items in the winter when there is nothing else going on. I only use my spare time so the actual value of my time is watching sportsball vs playing in the woodshop. Economically from a strict $ point of view I don't think making boxes is worth it.

I've worked on making frames and frame jigs over the past 3 winters using just my table saw. I can now turn 2x4's into fully built frames with minimal effort. When I make them I normally make a few dozen of each part at a time, factory style. Then in a single day I can easily assemble them by the dozen or hundred. 

Another thing I found that works good by doing frames like that is by having bulk parts, only the sidebars are different so whatever depth I need (deep/medium) is readily available.


----------



## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

mtnmyke said:


> Simply curious on others economics as there seems to be articles


I dont have a shop full of woodworking equipment. I dont want a shop full of woodworking equipment. If I want to buy boxes, I can buy pre-cut box pieces from bee supply places cheaper than i can buy lumber to cut it up.

But I go multiple steps beyond that. We buy Lewis & Sons commercial grade boxes thru a local supplier. They are assembled and dipped. Assembled and dipped costs about 5 bucks more than buying pieces. For 5 dollars I cannot buy the screws, spend the time assembling, then set up for dipping. Heck, even if I was just painting two coats, it just doesn't make sense to do it myself. At most I'm going to save a couple bucks a box, and my time is worth FAR more than that, so just buy stuff ready to go.

I feel the same way about frames. We used to buy Mann Lake PF-5xx series frames when I lived farther south on the island. After moving north those have become difficult to get because local supplier doesn't deal in Mann Lake stuff, but they do have Acorn frames, so we buy those now. Same rationale, I could spend endless hours assembling fiddly little bits to make frames, but why ?

Personally, I think that a lot of folks are fooling themselves when they think building equipment is saving money.


----------



## ifixoldhouses (Feb 27, 2019)

There's no way to compete when the lumber at Lowes is so high unless you have cheap wood from a sawmill, or use plywood, I just made ten 2 framers out of CDX plywood for about $10 each, check it out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Zk0CaqMtuM&t=61s


----------



## My-smokepole (Apr 14, 2008)

Boxes and frames I buy from the Amish unassembled. Lids and bottom and so on I make. A down and dirty nuc box I make. But as a painting contractor/ tool hoarder I have most tools that one would want.


----------



## little_john (Aug 4, 2014)

I mainly use equipment that can't be bought from any beekeeping supplier, so in practice there's no other choice than to make it myself.

If I ran a beekeeping operation along business lines, and/or had a well paid occupation - than I'd buy standard boxes and frames, ready made and ready to use. But I'm retired and so don't cost my time any more. The wood I use is free, and I rather enjoy making stuff - but more than that, I actually get a helluva buzz from recycling unwanted pallets into useful and productive equipment - and what price can ever be placed on enjoyment and personal satisfaction ?
LJ


----------



## Robert Holcombe (Oct 10, 2019)

I build hive boxes and just about everything else I need from recycled wood - my old fence boards, scavenge, etc. - cost is zero to me. If I buy wood it is local rough sawn and a lot cheaper than the lumber stores. My boxes are dove tailed so I just glue them - cost of glue. I give them a lick of paint from a 5 gallon container -good stuff, cost affective. Most tools I have are 50 years old, dove tail kit is about 15, table saw 70 and new bearings twice. I don't have to work anymore - being frugal and scavenging accumulates $$ over time - I do what I want to do eveyday. I do buy frame components and plastic foundation by the case and assemble myself as manufactureres setup, buy and cut stock better than I can. I assemble about a 100 frames in about 4-5 hours with coffee - I do a better job than store bought, assembled frames. Let's see, yeah, I get all the kindling I need to start my wood stove for free too. I can do the math and I get it made my way, cheaper.


----------



## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

I found that building my own bottom boards, inner covers, and telescoping tops, as well as all my different shims, to be more cost effective. But, with Lowe's as my lumber store, there is no way that I can build the 10 frame boxes I use and actually save money. Same with frames, at $.85 each from ML on sale, just not worth the time to make my own. I am not yet retired, so time is not something of which I have an abundance.


----------



## mtnmyke (Apr 27, 2017)

Good info everyone. It's good to hear others are on the same page as me.

I spent some time in the shop today building some queen castles. I have some hives on the verge of swarming I need to split out and get queen cells into. (Poor us in Coastal California?) It gave me some time to thing about what is really worth building vs buying. I think I've come to the same conclusion as many - if I can buy it, I probably will. If I can't, then I should probably build it. However, I may agree with making bottom boards and telescoping covers. I'll have to price that out and see where that gets me vs buying.

I did build the castles out of old 10 frame boxes that weren't going to be used for anything else. I went to 8 frame several years ago and never looked back. Scrap wood and a 5mm sheet of ply and I built 4 for about $10. Can't beat that!


----------



## coalsmok (Jan 27, 2017)

My dad and I own a small band mill. If I can get the tree for free and have the lumber cut far enough ahead of time to be dry, building my own is cheaper. If I have the time. This year I don’t have the wood cut and dried down so I bought some from Dadant for less than the lumber would cost from a box store. Tops and bottom boards are made from rough lumber. The bees don’t care how smooth it is. I actually got a large white pine gave to me a few weeks ago. I cut out several hundred dollars worth of boxes today soon as the lumber dries. This time I even cut the boards to 3/4” thickness to save planing them down from 1” as this is a huge time and money pit for me. 
You don’t need a dado set to cut rabbets for boxes, just set the fence over and make two cuts to complete. I don’t used box joints like the commercial made boxes. I cut rabbets around 3 sides of the end pieces and use glue and staples. This makes the sides simple as to cut as they are just cut to length.


----------



## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

mtnmyke said:


> Good info everyone. It's good to hear others are on the same page as me.


On this subject there will always be lots of different folks, on different pages, for different sets of reasons.

Some folks have more time than money, so the objective for them is to save some money, irregardless of how much time it takes. 
Some folks have more money than time, and for those folks, an hour saved is an hour that can be used for other things.

Like all things beekeeping, there is no 'right' answer that fits everybody. The right answer is the one that fits your circumstances best.


----------



## mtnmyke (Apr 27, 2017)

Naturally, grozzie2.

I was more referring to us folks who don't have access to a mill and have to buy our lumber from the box stores. If I had endless scraps laying around, access to scraps, or even had time to mill lumber off my own property things could change. I don't think beekeeping equipment is terribly expensive to begin with.

I do agree with above though. If you have the time then making them could be very rewarding, if not, you're not spending much more (if at all) to just purchase them. Unfortunately we don't really get "winter" in my location. In fact, it's quite the opposite. Winter is when my bees do the best!


----------



## bushpilot (May 14, 2017)

I don't find it worthwhile to build, but I assemble precut stuff in the winter, for my use or to sell on CL.


----------



## Ddawg (Feb 17, 2012)

I've built complete hives in the past (with the exception of frames). But without a cheap source of lumber, I find it easier and not much more expensive to buy precut equipment and assemble it. After I retire and have more time, I'll reconsider.


----------



## JConnolly (Feb 21, 2015)

If I use Advantech I can build a box for about six bucks each. I can get 5 deeps and one medium from a sheet, or I can get 8 mediums. Since Advantech stays flat even over long periods of time I cut out serveral boxes at a time but don't assemble them. They store flat and don't take up a lot of space. I cut out a couple dozen boxes in 2018. Half of them are still unassembled, waiting until I need them without taking up much space. If I used pine the pieces would have warped by now. The sole disadvantage to Advantech is weight. A pine box weighs about seven pounds, an Advantech box is twelve pounds.


----------



## vtbeeguy (Jun 10, 2016)

I buy unassembled hive bodies and build them in the winter. I have tried buying unassembled frames and assembling them but the time spent plus the staples and glue makes it not worth it. As a result I now buy assembled wooden frames with plastic foundation. As for bottoms and tops I build them. Bottoms I use rough cut pine (I have a family member with a small mill) and tops I use Advantec plywood along with some little pieces to give them a small rim similar to what Ian does (a Canadian beekeepers blog I can't remember his handle on this site but want to give credit where it's due). But I think everyone's situation is a bit different so figure out what makes the most sense for you. Best of luck bud


----------



## Jim_in_PA (May 17, 2016)

I have a professional level shop and buy materials with trade discounts. I've built a few boxes just to say I've done it, but it's less expensive for us to buy Mann Lake knocked down boxes and put them together...I cannot buy acceptable pine locally for a price that beats the knocked down boxes, even when they are not on sale, and not even accounting for my time to mill said lumber. I do build a lot of the other things because I can use scrap from other projects which absolutely reduces cost.

I have cut some NUCs from Advantec on my CNC machine, largely for the exercise of doing it, but I wouldn't use that material for medium 10 frame boxes due to weight.


----------



## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

I can source rough cut cypress from Moze Zook for less than $1 per board foot. I plane it smooth and build special pieces of bee equipment such as Killion bottom boards. I can also purchase equipment ready to assemble from Albert Zook at a fairly good price. Cypress usually is more expensive than typical white pine but is also more durable. I'm willing to do some extra work to get cypress.


----------



## Greeny (Jun 27, 2016)

I have to balance frugality with reasonable time management. Boxes and frames are very time consuming to cut and shape. I pool funds with others and make large buys from Mann Lake when they have sales. These components are very inexpensive when buying a couple hundred frames or more than 36 boxes. (10 frame medium equipment).

Tops and bottoms however, are expensive from any supplier, but are relatively easy and cheap to build from scratch. I build migratory covers and basic bottoms from scraps and scrounged lumber.


----------



## My-smokepole (Apr 14, 2008)

My problem with pre-assemble wooden ware is a lot of time the poor Quality of Assembly. We have seen new stuff all most fall apart after one season. Where with glued, stapled end grain filled with caulk or glue. An two coats of paint they look just as good after 5 years in service.


----------



## GreenBeekpr (Apr 8, 2017)

Commercial boxes are pine, are they not, which isn't as expensive as plywood, correct? 
Also, I found that buying assembled boxes and frames from the Amish was extremely reasonable and easier than assembling/building boxes and frames myself.


----------



## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

I build my own, but the reason is I have access to cheap wood and I enjoy the Wood working part as much as the keeping.
In Michigan there are numerous sawmills where you can get rough sawn Pine for 800-1000 dollars a thousand board feet.
It then needs to be dryed preferably kiln dried
I have a small planner
table saw
pin nailer and cordless screw /drill.
I do most of the work in winter, we still have snow on the ground here.
If wood is expensive, and you can sell a few NUCs or queens you likely would be better off to buy unassembled bulk and put them together and pain/dip your self.

Good luck let us know the "cheapest" solution you discover.








my future hives, I am cutting some logs this winter, so taking it from tree to bees in hive. 

GG


----------



## ghost1230 (Jul 31, 2019)

I can get a 1x12x6 for about 8 bucks and a 1x8x6 for 5. I pick thru the lumber as needed to get good (to me) Menards lumber. My time is free as I am retired. I have all the tools needed for making the boxes. To me I am saving while keeping myself busy making them. I make bottoms and tops out of recycled lumber that was free. I bought about 40' of aluminum flashing for tops for $20. Frames I buy for about .78 ea. Someday I may try making them also. This is what works for me.


----------



## blain1976 (Jun 8, 2019)

I just went through this same thing a couple of weeks ago. I have a very well set up woodworking shop and capable of doing hive bodies, etc. But decided it is not worth it to make the hive bodies and the frames.

Just sifting through the warped and knot riddled wood trying to find decent stock is hassle enough for me to not want to do it. And then you would still have to make the time to build everything.

I do however make the tops, bottoms, inner covers and nucs. 

Just like you said, the commercial grade hive bodies from Mann Lake are a decent enough deal to just go with it. 

But if someone can find a good enough deal on lumber and enjoys making them, I wont make fun of them for that either. There's people out there that actually enjoy doing their taxes, so who am I to say otherwise?


----------



## memguy (Apr 17, 2016)

Cheaper to buy from Mann Lake


----------



## NickP (Oct 31, 2019)

I'll chime in because this has topic has caught my fancy...

We ran the numbers and are making our own boxes now. In short we only build 10 frame deeps and mediums. We buy our frames assembled by the semi load. In order for making boxes to be cost effective we purchase lumber by the semi load as well. You can make roughly 3,600 deeps from one semi truck of 1x16 pine. We used to make furniture then got into bees so we already had the shop setup. If you're starting from scratch you're looking at around 13k-15k in equipment (bare min) for a production shop. We stick to making deeps unless we get an order for mediums then we run that order to the exact number only. We always have deeps on hand. Our commercial bee operation only runs Deeps.

We got into making deeps for ourselves then figured we could sell them too. We don't have the tooling to make frames yet, nor have I ran the numbers to justify making frames in the large qty we need, so I cannot chime in on that.


----------



## mpdotson (Jan 6, 2016)

Occasionally I can get 1X12's at Lowes that are damaged or unsalable at normal price. I can get these at about 1/3 the normal price. The lumber is still good and i use this to make supers and bottom boards. But like i said, it is only occasionally that this is available.


----------



## R.Varian (Jan 14, 2014)

Bulk for me is 150 deeps which i purchase, tops and bottoms I make, bulk price is not good.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 23, 2018)

I enjoy working in the shop and need something to keep me busy in the winter as I am one of those people who can’t sit idle (watching TV counts as sitting idle for me). On the other hand, cost is a consideration as well. If it is an item I use in quantity it is difficult to beat commercial bulk prices. I can get a box of 35 mediums from ML for $9.75 each, shipped. Building them myself costs $3-4 more per box, ignoring my time (plus it is hard to get decent lumber from the big box stores).

I build stuff I don’t use in quantity because shipping tends to even up costs, I enjoy doing so, and have the time.

Salvage helps when you can find usable lumber. My exception to the volume rule of thumb is frames. I can cut my own from salvaged 2x wood, which is easy to get from construction sites. I have jigs for my table saw, routing table, and drill press that let me knock them out in quantity. It takes me about 3 minutes per to go from scrap to frame parts.

My experience, FWIW.

Stu


----------



## Amibusiness (Oct 3, 2016)

By all means build some boxes. Its fun! As to economics in our market: last time I bought lumber it cost $6 / box for #2 pine. Then I bought unassembled boxes which cost $8 / box delivered. I don't have a good enough shop set up to justify that. Tops and bottoms out of plywood is simple and cost effective here. I build those heavier than I can buy because they never fill up with honey 🙂. And I keep an eye out for sales.


----------



## crgshhn (Apr 6, 2015)

Hard to beat these prices from Amish made cypress equipment by Peter Zook in Franklin, KY.


----------



## Airwreck (Feb 9, 2013)

If one is resourceful there is no way buying is cheaper. On the island where I live and in the past ten years I have never paid for any box, baseboard, or lid. It is all recycled wood. Currently I have over 50 unassembled boxes in storage. My friend who I work with, has found a huge shipping crate that appears it will make well over 300 boxes. One does not need a fancy wood shop to build boxes. A circular saw and glue with some pony clamps. If you don't know what a pony clamps is it is a clamp made from galvanized pipe, you buy the clamp parts at any hardware store for about 15. each One can easily make boxes. 
The lids and baseboards can be made with old real estate signs or any thing that is waterproof. Our stands are made from recycled old bed frames that are metal. They can be cut with a hack saw, if you don't own a right angle grinder. Then bolted together, if you don't have access to welding. Frames are a little more of a challenge, if you want to make them, a table saw is suggested. I have started to make mine out of hardwood, such as mahogany, or a wood we have here called purpleheart. become creative recycle, reuse and make bee stuff. Nothing hard
Good luck and start dumpster diving.


----------



## little_john (Aug 4, 2014)

Airwreck - what a refreshing read - nice one 

Re: Mann-Lake being 'cheap' ... not overall in my experience - only their price tag. But - just in case you think I'm bad-mouthing ML - my criticism is far more directed towards their supplier. ML were only selling them on, during the short time they were operating here in the UK.

I bought twenty (in order to get free shipping) economy-grade flat-pack deep National brood boxes. My intention being to assemble them, cut 'em in half, add a new side, then use 'em as el cheapo 5-frame nuc boxes. I'd done this before with a batch of their premium-grade cedar boxes, and it proved to be a reasonably easy and cheap procedure. But ...

These economy-grade boxes were *really *bad - I think they came from an outfit called "Knots'r'Us" ! With National boxes, each end is formed from 3 pieces - a flat 'plate' and two rails - one at the top which forms a hand-grab, and another at the bottom to match it. Most of these rails had knots in 'em which caused them to become bent like dog's-legs, and none of the mortise and tenon joints lined-up correctly. So - those boxes needed a *lot* of work (and filler) in order to get them into reasonable shape, and all the remaining knots had to be over-glued, as many were already becoming loose.

Looking back, it would have been both quicker & cheaper to have made those nuc boxes from scratch, using pine pallet wood (ex Oregon - lovely stuff), *and* it would have been well-seasoned unlike the ML junk. Never again - if that's what commercial 'economy-grade' means - I'll make my own from now on ...
LJ


----------



## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Can't imagine buying bee boxes Too easily made, considering I just bought 116 - 14' 1x12 pine. Nice quality. $0.75 a board foot


----------



## Airwreck (Feb 9, 2013)

Oh I forgot to add, little John reminded me. If you use pallets for wood search for the stamp on the pallet of MT or HT. MT stand for methyl bromide treatment of the wood for bugs. HT stand for heat treated for bugs. Maybe domestic pallets do not need this treatment, but export pallets do. The MT treatment will adversely effect our bees.


----------



## Jim_in_PA (May 17, 2016)

[email protected] said:


> I enjoy working in the shop and need something to keep me busy in the winter as I am one of those people who can’t sit idle (watching TV counts as sitting idle for me). On the other hand, cost is a consideration as well. If it is an item I use in quantity it is difficult to beat commercial bulk prices. I can get a box of 35 mediums from ML for $9.75 each, shipped. Building them myself costs $3-4 more per box, ignoring my time (plus it is hard to get decent lumber from the big box stores).
> 
> I build stuff I don’t use in quantity because shipping tends to even up costs, I enjoy doing so, and have the time.
> 
> ...


This is where buying the boxes from ML knocked down shines...good price and you still get to build them, albeit without all the "fun" of creating the joinery from scratch.


----------



## Airwreck (Feb 9, 2013)

Got distracted, someone mentioned they had jigs for table saw router etc.. would they be kind enough to post pictures or plans.. sound great.
One more comment about boxes. Living in a tropical environment. The box joints on commercial boxes rot so much faster then butt joints. IMHO box joints are a waste of labor.


----------



## crab414 (Jan 6, 2020)

I love shipping pallets and crates. I've made all bottom boards, inner covers, telescopic covers and quilt boxes that double as swarm traps. I also make all my pig hut hotels out of skids. These skids are usually 8-10' long and 4' high. The only money I spend is on screws and glue. My wife on the other hand wishes that I wasn't always so cheap 😂.


----------



## mybodyisatemple76 (Jul 30, 2017)

I buy 1inch by 1foot rough cut white pine from a guy about 30 minutes from me with a wood mizer. some boards are a little thicker and where there are knots they bulg out a little cuz the mizer blade doesnt cut thru the knots good but at .35 cents a board foot less than $4 a deep I can't buy boxs for that anywhere. find someone with a wood mizer near you. I found this guys ad posted at the local co op. I don't make alot of money at normal job and never have enough extra to bulk order boxs so i have no choice but build cheap or don't have as many hives. id rather spend more time and less money and I have gotten alot of boxs that wouldnt fit together when I bought premade boxs ive bought maybe 10 total when I started and had at least 3 that wouldnt fit together out of the 10 ive bought. But if I had the extra money to waste id rather not build them by for now i do but still buy pre cut frames but make everything else I uss advantec for bottoms and tops.


----------



## mbear (May 18, 2017)

I can buy finished boxes from mann lake cheaper than I can buy the wood locally. So it only makes sense to buy them.

I make all my own tops, bottoms and nucs. As I can make them for about a quarter of what they cost already made.

Frames take way too long to make even though I can get the wood for free. It just doesn't make sense to spend 20 minutes to save eighty cents.

The current question for me is it worth it to buy un-assembled frames and put them together myself or just buy completed frames.


----------



## SmokeyHill (Feb 6, 2018)

If you're buying lumber from a big box store, you are paying way too much. I buy from a local lumber yard that caters to contractors. I'm lucky in that one of the counter guys is also a beekeeper and gives me the contractor price for lumber.

If there's one thing I've learned about beekeeping it's this: You can never have enough wooden-ware, especially when you're just starting out. If you have a good wood shop, building your own stuff is cheap, fast and easy. I can build 150 medium frames in an afternoon for about $45; deeps I get about 125 for the same cost and time. 
Hive bodies are very easy to make, but about the only cost you save is shipping. I enjoy making them, so it's worth it to me.

I'll be making more equipment in late March to get ready for this season. I'll get some video and pics of my process if you're interested and post them here on the forums.

The trick to fast and easy is having the proper jigs to make multiple pieces at a time. Also, having a frame assembly jig is paramount. I also have a jig for cutting the end bevels on the frame top bars and a process for cutting the narrow end of the side bars. The equipment I use is a jointer, planer, table saw, regular blade and dado stack, a miter saw, box joint jig, and a band saw. I also have several routers and a production router table, but found it's much faster to use a dado in the table saw.

A lot of people don't think making wooden-ware is worth it, but if woodworking is a hobby you enjoy, it's no different than doing any other hobby you enjoy. That makes the time a moot point. And as a plus, if you find you need something _right now_ you have everything you need to build it and don't have to wait for UPS.


----------



## Robert Holcombe (Oct 10, 2019)

I smile and agree with you but I have not tried to make frames, I assemble them "my way". I suggest you look at a dovetail jig for boxes. I build boxes from recovered pine or from my local saw mill; 16 supers cost me some Tite bond III glue and time. I do not nail or screw them together but do use and assembly jig and clamps to keep the square and plumb when gluing up.


----------



## SmokeyHill (Feb 6, 2018)

I have two dovetail jigs. Using a dado with a box joint is much faster than a dovetail jig since I can cut four or more at once. With a dovetail jig, it's one at a time with a router. Dovetails are stronger, but we're talking hive bodies, not dresser drawers.


----------



## crofter (May 5, 2011)

SmokeyHill said:


> I have two dovetail jigs. Using a dado with a box joint is much faster than a dovetail jig since I can cut four or more at once. With a dovetail jig, it's one at a time with a router. Dovetails are stronger, but we're talking hive bodies, not dresser drawers.


If you can cut 4 pieces at once and have wood with very little cup it could be quite quick. I bought several dados that had from very little to actual negative hook. Another had center sections that did not give a flat bottom. I find the rabbeted box does the trick for me with less fuss. Costs me about 8 dollars a box for the unplaned lumber from a small sawmill. Transportation is the killer for store bought so this is the way I go. If I had a day job I probably would buy but building stuff keeps me out of the poolroom or chasing cars!


----------



## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

SmokeyHill said:


> The equipment I use is a jointer, planer, table saw, regular blade and dado stack, a miter saw, box joint jig, and a band saw. I also have several routers and a production router table, but found it's much faster to use a dado in the table saw.


The cost of all that equipment, and a place to set it up, will buy a LOT of bee boxes and frames.


----------



## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

There are lots of good answers in this thread. Each of us has to decide based on a common set of questions.

1. Do you have a good area to do woodworking?

2. Do you already have the required tools?

3. Can you source cheap materials?

4. Do you enjoy building things by hand?

5. Are you planning to use specialty equipment that suppliers do not sell?

6. How durable do you want your equipment to be?

7. How much time do you have for woodworking?

8. How important is "quality" in your equipment?

9. How much does it cost to build vs purchase?


For some of us, building our own equipment makes sense. For others, buying ready cut or ready built is a good choice.

I have a full basement to do my woodworking, have the tools to do the job, can source rough cut cypress lumber at a good price, love building things on my own, running 14 frame square Dadant which nobody makes, want my equipment to last 30+ years, have enough time in winter to build my own, and have a very strong interest in well built quality equipment. I can't buy the equipment I use so purchasing is not an option.


----------



## jfh00jfh (Jun 20, 2018)

1. I sometimes buy from a local - usually Amish - source.

2. Usually I build boxes from used/ cull lumber; or lumber I buy at auction.

I have a woodworking shop but building your own is still slow-going.


----------



## JConnolly (Feb 21, 2015)

Most of the comments so far have focused on cost. Another consideration to making your own is quality. If you have the skills you can build better quality equipment than you can buy. I'll pit my bee boxes against any wooden commercial box. The joinery is precise, the quality is excellent because the manufacturer cares about doing a quality job. And if I ever do have a quality complaint I can take it up directly with "customer service" and get a prompt satisfactory no hassle resolution to the problem. Customization is no issue, my bottom boards are my own design with built in attachments for accessories such as robing screens and mouse guards. I can create equipment on demand. 



SmokeyHill said:


> The trick to fast and easy is having the proper jigs to make multiple pieces at a time.


So true. 

I built a version of this box joint jig permanently set up for beehive box joints. I set up the jig for a 5/8" key for the box joint finger at the frame rest and 1"keys for the other box joint fingers. After cutting the fingers on the side board I insert a 3/8" spacer and then I cut the top finger leaving a 3/8" stub so it fills the frame rest. After I had it set up the first time I cut a slot in the end stop so that I can use it to set the router bit depth in seconds. I use a cordless trim router. Set up time is now about one minute. It only does one piece at a time but I make boxes on demand.

In addition to the box joint jig I made a bee box dedicated table saw sled. Sleds are easy to make. The sled has a right side stop for end boards, and a left side stop for sides. No set up or measuring is involved except placing the sled on the saw. My CMS broke so I have a new Bosch CMS on on order. When I get that I have plans to make a CMS station. I'm already planning on building in stops for bee boxes and retiring the sled.



SmokeyHill said:


> if woodworking is a hobby you enjoy, it's no different than doing any other hobby you enjoy. That makes the time a moot point. And as a plus, if you find you need something _right now_ you have everything you need to build it and don't have to wait for UPS.


Well said. Nothing better than combining hobbies.


----------



## SmokeyHill (Feb 6, 2018)

grozzie2 said:


> The cost of all that equipment, and a place to set it up, will buy a LOT of bee boxes and frames.


Yes it would, but then I also build furniture and other projects for my wife, daughters and grandchildren.


----------



## crofter (May 5, 2011)

They can make other wooden things too. Yep the typical beginner beekeeper would have a hard time justifying everything just to build bee equipment.


----------



## little_john (Aug 4, 2014)

Nice job Frank ... respect. 
LJ


----------



## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Looks real nice Frank. I am trying to justify the purchase of a new router table to mill the coves and beads on the 3/4" x 1/4" strips I need to build a canoe. Need to clear a space for the strongback too.


----------



## crofter (May 5, 2011)

JWPalmer said:


> Looks real nice Frank. I am trying to justify the purchase of a new router table to mill the coves and beads on the 3/4" x 1/4" strips I need to build a canoe. Need to clear a space for the strongback too.


Having a good fit and finish on the strips pays big dividends in the finishing. I also made up a glassed strip Redbird canoe stretched to 17 feet and used a mix of white and red pine strips with a bit of dark western cedar for accent strips. I find about 2/3ds of the way through they become a love/hate proposition. Lost most of canoe pics to hard drive crash.


----------



## SmokeyHill (Feb 6, 2018)

Very nice Crofter. I have the cove and round bits for a canoe, but haven't had the time to start one yet. It's one of those "someday" projects. As in, someday I'll have the room and time in the shop for a canoe.
And you're right, for a beginner or a non-woodworker, it's not worth the investment just for hive equipment. For those of us that use our equipment for more than beehives, it's well worth it.


----------



## Kevin J (Mar 8, 2018)

i own a small woodmizer and still buy my boxes from amish. cypress for brood boxes and pine for supers which i paint. i mill speciality hardwood and sell for $3-$8 a bd ft. i get my logs for free and i’ll still buy boxes knocked down that all fit near perfect, finger joints. $12 for a deep cypress and $6.50 medium pine w/o bulk discounts. the more i buy, the more i save. I can spend my sunny days milling expensive lumber and rainy or cold days assembling amish made boxes. there are only so many hours in a day and approaching 50 hives, time is money. i’ll start buying frames assembled by the pallet with acorn pre installed.


----------



## Litsinger (Jun 14, 2018)

crofter said:


> I find about 2/3ds of the way through they become a love/hate proposition.


Frank:

Just wanted to echo the kudos for the canoe projects- it is evident by these photos (and others that you have previously posted) that you have a real knack with wood.

Enjoyed looking at the work of a craftsman.

Russ


----------



## pintail_drake2004 (Aug 31, 2018)

I have built several just to say I have when I first got started. Now I buy them. I have a set up shop and a wood working side business, but charging $55/hr it just isn't worth it when I could be working on something else


----------



## Amibusiness (Oct 3, 2016)

I agree lj (from a while back), ML quality is not that great on the boxes. Certainly I can make them with care far better (i only made a few so I used rabbets instead of making a jig for box joints). I built them because I had a bunch of scraps lying around. However, factoring in time and I'd prefer to spend it elsewhere. I'm not a good enough cabinet maker to be proficient and enjoy it. And after many years the ML boxes are still holding up. I have a couple old boxes in the repair pile. None of the ML boxes have made it there yet (they are only about 5 years in so I've got a ways to go....). I aim to have boxes around for 20 years. Any more is bonus. So at 30 -50 cents per year it should be fine. Of course bear can shorten the life span of boxes....


----------



## hockeyfan_019 (Dec 1, 2019)

crofter said:


> Having a good fit and finish on the strips pays big dividends in the finishing. I also made up a glassed strip Redbird canoe stretched to 17 feet and used a mix of white and red pine strips with a bit of dark western cedar for accent strips. I find about 2/3ds of the way through they become a love/hate proposition. Lost most of canoe pics to hard drive crash.


I can 2nd/third some of the comments below, those pics with the strip work boats look spectacular! Working on all those thin strips, which may or may not be PERFECTLY straight with consistent thickness, curving around other shapes that are curved in multiple directions, with a resulting fit and finish as those great as those demonstrates incredible craftsmanship and patience. I've found that only with superior patience, really nice consistent straight-grain equally flexible wood, good adhesive that has a fast tack time, and a bagillion clamps can you accomplish something like those. My hat's off to your results!


----------

