# DIY 5 gallon bucket heaters and the incandescent bulb ban.



## frustrateddrone (Jan 31, 2015)

Why in the world would anyone want to heat a bee hive during the winter is beyond me........ It's natural for them to winter hibernate. Don't we manipulate the bees enough? I wish it were cold enough that my bees stayed put for 3 months! NOPE, only about 3 consecutive days are my bees inside during the winter. Seems to me all they do is fly about a 100 yd radius and that's it. They know nothing is available. They just fly around irritating me as I must have irritated them for 7 months.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

I think they can still be had with the "Rough Service" designation. Battery warmers for cars would likely do the trick too.


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## Gumpy (Mar 30, 2016)

frustrateddrone said:


> Why in the world would anyone want to heat a bee hive during the winter is beyond me........ It's natural for them to winter hibernate. Don't we manipulate the bees enough? I wish it were cold enough that my bees stayed put for 3 months! NOPE, only about 3 consecutive days are my bees inside during the winter. Seems to me all they do is fly about a 100 yd radius and that's it. They know nothing is available. They just fly around irritating me as I must have irritated them for 7 months.


He didn't say he was heating a bee hive. He said he was heating a 5 gallon bucket. Presumably to warm and de-crystallize the honey in it. 

Maybe you should go pet the kitty! You seem a bit high strung. :lookout:


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

frustrateddrone; I think you missed something in the original post maybe


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

frustrateddrone said:


> Why in the world would anyone want to heat a bee hive during the winter is beyond me........


I'm pretty sure that the OP is asking about heaters for "honey", not bee hives! 

[hr] [/hr]
Incandescent "heat bulbs" or similar are likely to remain available for longer than my lifetime. 

And just in case such bulbs do go extinct, keep in mind that in a closed box (or room), ALL the energy consumed by a "bulb" is always converted to 100% heat. While we think of LED or CFL bulbs producing light, eventually all of that light is absorbed by the walls of the box (or the _contents_ of the box) in the form of heat anyway. Electricity used in lights is always 100% heat in the final analysis.*

There are links to all kinds of "honey warming box" threads here: http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?317301-Honey-warming-box-cabinet-for-de-crystalizing


* Those comments apply to light in a "closed" box or room (no windows to allow light to escape the enclosure).

.


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## Pete O (Jul 13, 2013)

I think that if the Earl of Chatham were to clarify the purpose of his light bulb heater, we might be able to give solid advice. 

Electrical heaters will always be available; there's nothing magical or potentially scarce about a light bulb.


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## Duncan151 (Aug 3, 2013)

frustrateddrone said:


> Why in the world would anyone want to heat a bee hive during the winter is beyond me........ It's natural for them to winter hibernate. Don't we manipulate the bees enough? I wish it were cold enough that my bees stayed put for 3 months! NOPE, only about 3 consecutive days are my bees inside during the winter. Seems to me all they do is fly about a 100 yd radius and that's it. They know nothing is available. They just fly around irritating me as I must have irritated them for 7 months.


Many people want to heat beehives in the winter, for many different reasons! Geesh, eat some more turkey and take a nap. :lookout:


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## mcon672 (Mar 5, 2015)

You could always use one of the heat bulbs used for reptiles. Here's one under $6
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0002AR3QC/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1480378035&sr=8-2&keywords=reptile+heat+bulb&pi=SX200_QL40 
Or the bulb style ceramic heaters. A little pricey but last a very long time, 5 years continuous use. Maybe $25 for a 60watt.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

The black or white pet lizard ceramic light is just like an incandescent light bulb.
You can find them in different wattage at amazon or ebay. Screw in a regular light bulb socket
without any issue. Perhaps a fish tank heater will work too.


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## My-smokepole (Apr 14, 2008)

Been using a heat light bulb.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

Trying a heating pad after reading a thread, so far it's working. Also seems to work with dedicate honey containers that melt in a dishwasher. 

In the past I put 5 gallon buckets in my truck on the floor and it works fine.

Light bulbs work too, but much of the energy from a light bulb is turned in to light, where as all the of energy from a heating pad is turned in to heat.

I have raw unfiltered honey so I monitor temperature, keeping the honey around 100 or less, takes longer but IMO it's worth it.


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## cervus (May 8, 2016)

Earl of Chatham said:


> Since I am building this project now should I consider some other type of heat source? if so what?
> 
> TIA












I used one of these for a temperature-controlled fermentation chamber for beer brewing. Easily configurable to any shape you desire and they work well. I used electrical tape to serpentine around the walls of the fermentation chamber. They are available in different lengths/wattages.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

FlowerPlanter said:


> Light bulbs work too, but much of the energy from a light bulb is turned in to light, where as all the of energy from a heating pad is turned in to heat.


Not true.

If the light bulb is in a closed box (where light does not escape from the box), then ALL the light is turned to heat. The light is absorbed as heat by the contents of the box and the walls of the box.

If you don't believe me, here is a _University of Illinois_ Department of Physics page that addesses that issue: 
https://van.physics.illinois.edu/qa/listing.php?id=15115


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## Cedar Hill (Jan 27, 2009)

Why not use two deep supers over each other, placing the bucket of crystallized honey inside, placing a drop light from the center to bottom and another at the top (75 watts) under cover. The honey turns to liquid in just a few hours. No projects of using old fridges or anything else. It works very well and the supers can be used later for hives. Incandescent bulbs? (no problem ) OMTCW


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## BeeGora (Oct 22, 2013)

Duncan151 said:


> Many people want to heat beehives in the winter, for many different reasons! Geesh, eat some more turkey and take a nap. :lookout:


Since he's asking about using a refrigerator or freezer he's obviously heating honey. Unless he's planning on putting the beehive inside one......which is highly doubtful.....:lpf:


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## Earl of Chatham (Jan 28, 2013)

Thanks for the bulb ideas guys. I didn't want to build this heater to be bulb based if it was going to be an issue later that required conversion to some other heat source. :thumbsup:


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## Duncan151 (Aug 3, 2013)

BeeGora said:


> Since he's asking about using a refrigerator or freezer he's obviously heating honey. Unless he's planning on putting the beehive inside one......which is highly doubtful.....:lpf:


BeeGora, my comment, and others will make more sense if you go back and read the whole thread from start to finish, instead of jumping in, in the middle. As you seem to bee. LOL


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## Bob Anderson (Jun 13, 2014)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> Not true.
> 
> If the light bulb is in a closed box (where light does not escape from the box), then ALL the light is turned to heat. The light is absorbed as heat by the contents of the box and the walls of the box.


It would be interesting if this wasn't true. After a few days of a light being on in a closed box the box would get jam-packed with photons. What would happen when you opened the box?


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Bob Anderson said:


> It would be interesting if this wasn't true. After a few days of a light being on in a closed box the box would get jam-packed with photons. What would happen when you opened the box?


Photon bomb.


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## Hops Brewster (Jun 17, 2014)

Contrary to popular belief, there is no actual ban of incandescent bulbs. I just bought some the other day. What is happening, is the 'Energy Star' regulation of *energy efficiency* of lighting. Where manufacturers can make energy efficient incandescents and still make a profit, they are doing so. But the profit margins on those is slim. Where they are going with the more profitable lighting is CFLs and LEDs, and in some cases Magnetic designs. But back to my point, incandescent bulbs are still on the shelves, in smaller quantities and fewer choices.

“The standards are technology neutral, which means any type of bulb can be sold as long as it meets the efficiency requirements. Common household light bulbs that traditionally use between 40 and 100 watts will use at least 27% less energy by 2014.” 

https://www.energystar.gov/ia/produ...ISA_Backgrounder_FINAL_4-11_EPA.pdf?6bd2-3775


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

Not all light bulbs are created equal, IR bulbs are made for heating not lighting. This bulb would make more heat than light but it could melt plastic or burn the box.

http://www.sleprojects.com/thermal-output-of-lamp

LEDs make less heat energy and more light energy, you don't want to use a LED bulb for your honey heater. 

A heating element would be the most efficient; 100% of electric energy is turned to heat energy. Most are made for skin contact which would reduce the chance of fire or over heating the honey.

http://energy.gov/energysaver/electric-resistance-heating


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

FlowerPlanter said:


> Not all light bulbs are created equal, IR bulbs are made for heating not lighting. This bulb would make more heat than light but it could melt plastic or burn the box.
> 
> ...
> ...
> ...


ANY electric light/appliance/motor is 100% efficient as a heater in a closed box or room. It doesn't matter what the "intended" use or design of that item is, or whether it is incandescent, LED or CFL bulb or any other electric powered item. ALL such units are 100% efficient heaters in a closed area (where light doesn't escape through a window). Even an electric motor is 100% efficient as a heater in those circumstances. Or your _cell phone_  (plugged into a charger).

That principle is inherent in the first law of thermodynamics ... 


> The law of conservation of energy, also known as the first law of thermodynamics, states that the energy of a closed system must remain constant—it can neither increase nor decrease without interference from outside. The universe itself is a closed system, so the total amount of energy in existence has always been the same. The forms that energy takes, however, are constantly changing.
> 
> _More complete info here:
> https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/energy-can-neither-be-created-nor-destroyed/
> ...


A CFL bulb that consumes 25 watts outputs heat+light = to 25 watts of heat.
A 25 watt incandescent bulb that consumes 25 watts outputs heat+light = to 25 watts of heat. 
A 25 watt "heater" that consumes 25 watts outputs heat+light = to 25 watts of heat. 

The difference is the percentage of energy INITIALLY provided in the form of visible light, but in the final analysis ALL of that light is converted to heat. If it _didn't_ work that way, you could turn off the light in the box, open the box , and the get _blinded_ by a massive accumulated light flow out of the "box of photons". 

.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Light is heat once converted. Look at the solar panel we're using now.
Even a small candle can be converted to heat inside a bee box. I'm on to something to
heat up the bee hives in the cold of winter. This will reduce the need to convert the
store honey or sugar into heat. Is 2500F enough? If not careful it will burn your hand too.
I cannot stand the cold long winter months anymore. Like to do my little bee experiment all year long!


Prototype of a heat source:


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

beepro said:


> Even a small candle can be converted to heat inside a bee box. I'm on to something to
> heat up the bee hives in the cold of winter. This will reduce the need to convert the
> store honey or sugar into heat. [HIGHLIGHT] Is 2500F enough?[/HIGHLIGHT]


Note that the flash point of beeswax is 400 degrees F, so 2500 degrees F seems like ... uhhh ... *overkill*! 

:ws:


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

>The law of conservation of energy, also known as the first law of thermodynamics, states that the energy of a closed system must remain constant—it can neither increase nor decrease without interference from outside.

Interesting, thanks for the science lesson, learn something new every day


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> ANY electric light/appliance/motor is 100% efficient as a heater in a closed box or room. It doesn't matter what the "intended" use or design of that item is, or whether it is incandescent, LED or CFL bulb or any other electric powered item. ALL such units are 100% efficient heaters in a closed area (where light doesn't escape through a window). Even an electric motor is 100% efficient as a heater in those circumstances. Or your _cell phone_  (plugged into a charger).
> 
> That principle is inherent in the first law of thermodynamics ...
> 
> ...



I have been in more than one argument about this concerning those IR/ ceramic heaters that claim they are more efficient than other electric heaters, and I'm like Um...... if you compare 2 heaters at 750 watts each both will put out exactly 750 watts of heat LOL


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Not overkill when you consider the heat that got loss to the cold air inside
the hive. For sure it will keep the hive all warm and cozy through out the
winter while eliminating the condensation issue. Where there is warm dry heat the
condensation is really low inside. Now my bees can brood up all winter long!


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

beepro said:


> Where there is warm dry heat the condensation is really low inside. Now my bees can brood up all winter long!


It appears that you are referring to _burning a candle _ overnight inside the hive to keep it warm and (allegedly) reduce the humidity.

However, one of the products of candle combustion is H[SUB]2[/SUB]O !!! 
See this reference: http://www.thenakedscientists.com/HTML/experiments/exp/getting-water-from-a-candle/

A candle appears to produce around 80 watts of heat, so there are lots of small, inexpensive electrical heat sources available in that range that would avoid the risk of catching the hive on fire, avoid introducing additional moisture into the hive, and be more convenient than a candle to boot!


Finally, in Sacramento CA, the average *low* overnight temperature in the coldest month (December) is 37.7 degrees F. Not really much of a winter.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

I dont think anyone is going to get any of Rader's money! 
Infrared radiant heat can indeed be more efficient at heating a _target_ with relatively less transferred to surrounding air. Poultry brood heaters are a good example of projecting heat at objects at floor level. That is not a closed system though like the honey heat box.


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

It's amusing as heck when a beekeeper conversation turns into calculus-based physics and not one of the people in the conversation has even taken one of the pre-requisites for calc.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

aunt betty said:


> It's amusing as heck when a beekeeper conversation turns into calculus-based physics and not one of the people in the conversation has even taken one of the pre-requisites for calc.


I bet lot of folks here have calculus and dont even know it. If you ever have a gall bladder attack you wont find it amusing though.
Go powder your nose aunt betty!:shhhh:


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## jadebees (May 9, 2013)

Interesting thread. Regarding the amout of energy in the bulb, if it says 13 watts for the light of a 75 watt bulb , you'll get 13 watts. They don't make more energy than they use, but are making more light less heat per watt. It's efficiency.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Ahh, those LED energy saving bulbs.
If you look at my pic it is vented like a cone shape to provide a moisture free hive environment. Only the
heat is produced to warm the hive's surrounding inside. It is very efficient heating this way. The
whole set up is screwed onto the side of the hive box so that it will not bounce around. Besides, the
vent tube toward the top will make the unit more stable and not wobble around. These are for the winter
stationary hives not for moving while the unit is on. Only the dry heat is produced inside without any H2O or
byproduct involved. No choking fumes at all! Dry heat only will dissipate any moisture generated by the bees inside.


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## Colobee (May 15, 2014)

Earl of Chatham said:


> I am considering building a 5 gallon bucket heater .. (with) a light bulb as a heat source.
> For those of you that have built these, what are you going to do when incandescent bulbs are no longer available? TIA


The CFL & LED light bulbs in the shop get quite warm. _If_ I ever run out of incandescent bulbs, I'll put a couple more sockets in the 5 gallon bucket heater box to get the ~120 watts equivalent (2X60 watts). An electric baseboard heater thermostat controls the temp.


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> Finally, in Sacramento CA, the average *low* overnight temperature in the coldest month (December) is 37.7 degrees F. Not really much of a winter.


LOL No it's not, My bees readily fly on 38 deg days for cleansing flights and i've even seem em bring back early spring pollen at that temp.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Harley Craig said:


> LOL No it's not, My bees readily fly on 38 deg days for cleansing flights and i've even seem em bring back early spring pollen at that temp.


No no no, you're wrong. Beepro's feet are already cold, he said it in another post. Almost frozen to death out that way.

Sacramento weather:


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

I buy my incandescent light bulbs off ebay. Now I'm paying $1 each instead of the $0.98 per 4 pack when I used to get them at Walmart. However, I don't like the way the new bulbs illuminate, and they are expensive on their own from Walmart. I'm sure Canada will be glad to send them over the border through ebay if they ever get fully banned in the USA.


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

jwcarlson said:


> No no no, you're wrong. Beepro's feet are already cold, he said it in another post. Almost frozen to death out that way.
> 
> Sacramento weather:


with that weather, it's time to make splits LOL


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## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

ruthiesbees said:


> I'm sure Canada will be glad to send them over the border through ebay if they ever get fully banned in the USA.


That won't work for you. Incandescent bulbs have been banned in Canada for two years. No more 60W and 100W incandescent bulbs. I stock piled a supply so I can use them as heat sources. 

Tri-lites and 300W are still on the shelf.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

mgolden said:


> That won't work for you. Incandescent bulbs have been banned in Canada for two years. No more 60W and 100W incandescent bulbs. I stock piled a supply so I can use them as heat sources.
> 
> Tri-lites and 300W are still on the shelf.


It's not like incandescent bulbs are the only way to heat air in a box.


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## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

deleted


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

Harley Craig said:


> with that weather, it's time to make splits LOL


Night temps are still too cold for splits.... and it's been getting a little cooler than that as we've had some frost but rain is actually an exothermic reaction so it's heating up right now since it just started sprinkling.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

The recent frost got my feet chilled. Shriveled up all the sweet potatoes vines. Now I
have to go dig up all the potatoes before they rotted out. Thanks goodness we have rains again.
My sister came back from Iowa and brought me a goose feathers
heavy jacket with hood. You know JW, the one that you use to go out snow shoveling on the drive way with. 
Almost makes me look like an Eskimo! 
Split time is in March or early April weather permitting. By then should be the beginning of Spring again. Few more
months to go. Sourcing your bulbs from ebay from another country still making them is not an issue either. Or get it
from your local dollar store 4 bulbs for a dollar plus tax. They're so cheap that I don't even use it anymore.


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

JRG13 said:


> Night temps are still too cold for splits.... and it's been getting a little cooler than that as we've had some frost but rain is actually an exothermic reaction so it's heating up right now since it just started sprinkling.


yeah sorry I was being sarcastic, we are teasing be pro a bit about his cold temps in CA LOL All in good fun.


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

beepro;
My sister came back from Iowa and brought me a goose feathers
heavy jacket with hood. You know JW said:


> @ the temps you are describing, alot of folks still runnin around in flip flops, shorts and a hoodies around here  LOL


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

beepro said:


> My sister came back from Iowa and brought me a goose feathers
> heavy jacket with hood. You know JW, the one that you use to go out snow shoveling on the drive way with.
> Almost makes me look like an Eskimo!


You're right, I do shovel the driveway in a hoodie. It's about 8 years old and elbows worn through... but no goose feathers or insulation at all. The only time I have to dress for the cold other than throwing a stocking hat on is when we're hunting late muzzleloader season for deer. The best years is when it doesn't get above zero during the day and drops to about -20 at night. Great time to be out hunting deer.



Harley Craig said:


> @ the temps you are describing, alot of folks still runnin around in flip flops, shorts and a hoodies around here  LOL


So true.


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## texanbelchers (Aug 4, 2014)

We hit 50 and people are grabbing their heavy winter gear. It rains a little and they can't drive (just totaled my truck because a kid lost control in front of me).

Anyway, back to the topic, has anyone tried pipe heat tape? It is similar to the reptile product listed earlier. I don't know how controllable it is. I also don't know if the "Self-Regulating" stuff would have any impact at the temperatures we need; we would probably need the fixed wattage kind.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

How cold is it getting that you think you need to put pipe tape in? Since I started keeping bees we've been down into the -20*F at night range every winter and I've never once thought that I needed to heat anything.

And so far 0 losses. This year hopefully some losses so I have a little comb. But that won't be temperature related.


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## texanbelchers (Aug 4, 2014)

The thread is about 5 gallon bucket heaters and possible replacements for bulbs. I assume that is inside a building, not outside or hive related. Being in Houston, cold hives are not of any concern. However, tallow and cotton honey both seem to crystallize quickly and I'm debating how to handle it after extraction.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

texanbelchers said:


> The thread is about 5 gallon bucket heaters and possible replacements for bulbs. I assume that is inside a building, not outside or hive related. Being in Houston, cold hives are not of any concern. However, tallow and cotton honey both seem to crystallize quickly and I'm debating how to handle it after extraction.


Good point, got crossed up in the Beepro weather updates. 

There are little 100-150W air heaters that can wire right into a plug. Take your current setup, screw one of those lightbulb plugs in and roll with whatever you use to control the temperature now.

Socket plug:
https://smile.amazon.com/GE-54276-P...220364&sr=8-3&keywords=light+bulb+plug+socket

2-Pack ceramic air heaters:
https://smile.amazon.com/Bleiou-2pc...3-1ba4-4f4e-bdcc-0febe090b8ed&pf_rd_i=desktop

Plug:
https://smile.amazon.com/Leviton-St...qid=1481220649&sr=8-2&keywords=polarized+plug

If you don't have a controller already:
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B011296704/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Some of the above stuff might be available locally for less money than on Amazon.

I run a fan at the top of my "setup" which is just stacked boxes with whatever is being de-crystalized sitting on a queen excluder. Two 75-watt bulbs underneath. The fan is always running. The lightbulbs are controlled by the controller at whatever temperature you set up. Works pretty well. I will probably build a specific box for it this winter so I can get away from stacking bee boxes to do it.


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## tanksbees (Jun 16, 2014)

Federally, but many states are banning them including California in 2018.



Hops Brewster said:


> Contrary to popular belief, there is no actual ban of incandescent bulbs. I just bought some the other day. What is happening, is the 'Energy Star' regulation of *energy efficiency* of lighting. Where manufacturers can make energy efficient incandescents and still make a profit, they are doing so. But the profit margins on those is slim. Where they are going with the more profitable lighting is CFLs and LEDs, and in some cases Magnetic designs. But back to my point, incandescent bulbs are still on the shelves, in smaller quantities and fewer choices.
> 
> “The standards are technology neutral, which means any type of bulb can be sold as long as it meets the efficiency requirements. Common household light bulbs that traditionally use between 40 and 100 watts will use at least 27% less energy by 2014.”
> 
> https://www.energystar.gov/ia/produ...ISA_Backgrounder_FINAL_4-11_EPA.pdf?6bd2-3775


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

I read somewhere that using an electric blanket and one other place of using a heating pad.
Hadn't seen them mentioned here.
Cheers
gww


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## texanbelchers (Aug 4, 2014)

Blankets and pads have proven not to work well or at least within days. Most blankets time out and shut off. They keep reducing the power on heating pads "for our safety"


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

texan
I am guessing all my stuff must be ancient, I had back problims and slept on one of our heating pads and it got so hot it burn't blisters on me. I don't discount what you say though. 
Cheers
gww


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## rwmccor (Feb 29, 2012)

How about this one but dont know if it would get warm enough
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Electric-Be...993904?hash=item4d41e4c6b0:g:Wq8AAOSwajVUTt15
A Fermentation Wrap Heater will gently heat a carboy or fermentation bucket 5-20°F greater than the ambient temperature,
depending on the configuration and insulation.

or if you want to spend more money this one
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Powerblanke...890211?hash=item1c74657423:g:Tm8AAOSwImRYHGG8


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## texanbelchers (Aug 4, 2014)

The $100+ options always look nice, but $$$. I like the fermentation heater. I doubt that it has any temperature control, but being only 40 watt it may not be able to over do anything. The 40 compared to 120 watts will take longer, but that looks like a good solution.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

Bob Anderson said:


> It would be interesting if this wasn't true. After a few days of a light being on in a closed box the box would get jam-packed with photons. What would happen when you opened the box?


To keep this physics related, put a cat in there.


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## Hops Brewster (Jun 17, 2014)

tanksbees said:


> Federally, but many states are banning them including California in 2018.


Someone ought to tell the State of California Energy Department. 
http://www.energy.ca.gov/lightbulbs/lightbulb_faqs.html


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## tanksbees (Jun 16, 2014)

Hops Brewster said:


> Someone ought to tell the State of California Energy Department.
> http://www.energy.ca.gov/lightbulbs/lightbulb_faqs.html


It's a defacto ban because their is no economical way to make them meet energy efficiency and minimum lifetime standards. Even CFL is on the chopping block. Most incandescents have been banned since 2014 but you still see them around because it was a manufacturing ban not a sales ban.

http://articles.latimes.com/2014/jan/01/business/la-fi-mo-incandescent-lightbulb-ban-20140101

http://www.mercurynews.com/2016/03/...dbye-to-the-lightbulbs-youve-known-and-loved/

-----
New, even higher standards that are set to take effect in 2018 here in California and in 2020 nationally will likely bar sales of most halogen bulbs. And all-new efficiency standards the U.S. Department of Energy proposed last month for CFL and LED bulbs would set the bar so high it’s unlikely that many CFLs will be able to meet it, Horowitz said.

“You’re going to be forced, pretty much, into LEDs,” said Dean Freeman, an analyst who focuses on the lighting market for research firm Gartner. “You’re going to start to see fluorescents pretty much fade away.”
----


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## Bob Anderson (Jun 13, 2014)

Nabber86 said:


> To keep this physics related, put a cat in there.


If you are thinking of putting Schrodinger's cat in the box I would not want to get entangled with it. 

In a multiverse, there are likely some boxes that would be the right temperature without heating them. I wonder where they are...


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## trapperdirk (Nov 3, 2013)

I thought a hot box would be a neat little project for my 13 year old sons and I. They got to learn some wood working and wiring skills on a project that took less than an hour.

We built a simple 5 sided box out of 1/2 plywood. We wired a ceiling light socket with a repurposed cord that has an in-line on/off switch and then mounted it on the floor of the box. We then put a piece of closet rack above the bulb to set the bucket or jars on. We just use a telescoping cover for a lid. Their carpentry skills need some work as the lid does not fit fully flush, but it gets the job done. 

Using a 67 watt (rated energy consumption) bulb, our new box heats to 102.5 degrees F, while in the house. No insulation was needed, and it is not completely air tight. Temp can be moderated by inserting shims under the lid.


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## Hops Brewster (Jun 17, 2014)

tanksbees said:


> It's a defacto ban because their is no economical way to make them meet energy efficiency and minimum lifetime standards. Even CFL is on the chopping block. Most incandescents have been banned since 2014 but you still see them around because it was a manufacturing ban not a sales ban.
> 
> http://articles.latimes.com/2014/jan/01/business/la-fi-mo-incandescent-lightbulb-ban-20140101
> 
> ...


I guess I'll stop buying incandescents and storing them in my closet, since they're not economical to manufacture.
CA Dept. of Energy still needs to update their website regarding light bulbs.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

Bob Anderson said:


> If you are thinking of putting Schrodinger's cat in the box I would not want to get entangled with it.
> 
> In a multiverse, there are likely some boxes that would be the right temperature without heating them. I wonder where they are...



Glad somebody got it.


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## KenNashua (Jan 31, 2015)

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but my 150W bulb burned out within a month...could just be bad luck, but has anyone used one of these or similar or have recommenations for something more durable?

Ceramic reptile heater: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07CWPF4BG/ref=twister_B07CWQ16ZR?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Ken, not sure if this helps. I use a small Pelonis forced air heater inside my incubator wired to a Ranco temperature controller. The incubator itself is a small Beverage-aire glass front merchandiser like you would see at a convienience store. I do queen cells, heat honey, and hold the fermentation temps for mead all in one unit, but not at the same time! I have had it plugged in continuously now for two years.


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## KenNashua (Jan 31, 2015)

JWPalmer said:


> Ken, not sure if this helps. I use a small Pelonis forced air heater inside my incubator wired to a Ranco temperature controller. The incubator itself is a small Beverage-aire glass front merchandiser like you would see at a convienience store. I do queen cells, heat honey, and hold the fermentation temps for mead all in one unit, but not at the same time! I have had it plugged in continuously now for two years.


I tried a small ceramic fan and it seems the cycle time caused it to overheat...but I'll give that some thought.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Incandescent heat lamps and flood lamps probably still are still available


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## KenNashua (Jan 31, 2015)

crofter said:


> Incandescent heat lamps and flood lamps probably still are still available


Yes...was wondering if anyone had luck with something that might have a longer lifespan...as I said, it might have just been bad luck to get a bulb that lasted less than a month.


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