# Fire in the hive



## BeeBop (Apr 23, 2015)

Yikes!

Homemade OAV or commercially available?
How long was it plugged in?

Did the fire go out on it's own or did you have to... do something?


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## Davers (Aug 6, 2014)

The cheaper of the commercially sold one. It was my first of 3 hives. It was just a matter of a few minutes. I was watching the vapor rise, waiting for it to cease and then it looked like smoke started coming out so I opened the hive and saw the flames. Pulled 3 to 4 out and tossed water on it. This is my second year so I have done the vaporizering a few times and nothing happened. It even burned the end off the vaporizer.


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## BeeBop (Apr 23, 2015)

Can you post a photo of the burnt vaporizer?
Curious if the vaporizer actually got hot enough to start a fire or if a bad electrical connection could have been the culprit.

Anyway, sorry for your loss. That sucks.

I'm scheduled to treat one of my hives this evening. Now I'm nervous...


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

If I had to guess, it was wax (maybe burr comb on the bottom of the frames) that dripped down on the vaporizer and caught fire. Was the vap a little "tilted" in the hive so that it possibly touched the frames?


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

I doubt the fire burned the end off the evaporator. I suspect a bad connection or a fault inside the heating element caused it to arc through and that certainly could ignite wax.

This is the first time I have heard of a fire. Scorch marks yes, fire no. I have had wax fall into the tray but I think you would have to be using excessive " on " time to get it to ignite.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Those vaps can get to 400 (c) so certainly hot enough to ignite wax if dripping down onto the vap.


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## DanielD (Jul 21, 2012)

Yeah, the end of the vaporizer being burned off doesn't sound like wax burning it off. I remember how easily a wire cutter lost a good bit of metal in an instant when someone cut through a live 12 2 wire once. My memory is foggy as to who did the wire cutting. Pictures would be interesting.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

snl said:


> Those vaps can get to 400 (c) so certainly hot enough to ignite wax if dripping down onto the vap.


400C ? or F. "Beeswax softens at 90 deg F (32 C) and melts between 143 and 151 deg. F (62-66 C). The flashpoint (temperature at which beeswax flares up and burns fiercely) is 490-525 deg F (254-274 C)"

That is way hotter than anything needed to vaporize oxalic acid,(The oxalic acid is sublimated/vaporized with the use of heat into the beehive. The sublimation temperature of oxalic acid is 157-189c (315-372f) so my comment on grossly over timing the evaporation procedure if you were approaching flash point of wax (unless there was a malfunction somehow)


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## BeeBop (Apr 23, 2015)

snl said:


> Those vaps can get to 400 (c) so certainly hot enough to ignite wax if dripping down onto the vap.


400C ?? 
That's 752F, which is hot enough to give off a visible dull glow in a darkened room. I would hope it doesn't get THAT hot!


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

Curious as to how the bees reacted once the fire was obvious? 

I've only burned bees once, a colony that had AFB. Those that could flew about in panic, but tried to get back "home" by flying back into the fire. Goners. The next morning, I saw a gob of about 40 or 50 survivors on a nearby branch, and sadly had to kill them, too.


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## WWW (Feb 6, 2011)

I am curious about the battery charger and wondered if it was a booster type that accidentally got set on Boost, that is if it has a boost setting. I have been using a battery charger to vaporize for a number of years now and have never had a problem, the output isn't much different than a battery except that it is a constant level. I set my charger on 2 amp and the vaporizer is a modified Heilyser JB200 which takes 5 minutes to vaporize 3 grams of OA, this is not hot enough to light a hive on fire or melt aluminum. 

Could you enlighten us as to the charger setting and type of vaporizer?

That vaporizer had to be extremely hot to burn the end of it off and light the hive on fire.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

The Varrox (not the one in use here) can reach temps of 400 (c) that is correct, centigrade, with the right battery. That's why you have a stainless steel pan/steel rod and such a good burn on the OA.


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## Davers (Aug 6, 2014)

The unit was a Schumacher portable jump starter with 12v and 400 peak amps. It was the second time I used it. I bought this one because some beeks recommended it on this forum. I have no pictures but (not sure how to upload from Photobucket) had plastic frames with comb that were on fire and lost 4 to 5 frames. I pulled them out when I saw the excessive amount of smoke and then tossed water into the hive. I probably killed half the bee's and their stores. I didn't see the queen but will have to combine the remaining bee's with the other hive regardless. Kinda of scared now on how to handle the other hive's. Will probably buy the more expensive oxavap. The hive was level. In the past I used a car battery but this is the second time using the Schumacher.


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

just post a link to the photo bucket folder. Make sure the folder is set for public viewing.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

I'll ask, what vap unit did you have??


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## WWW (Feb 6, 2011)

I found what I think is your Schumacher jump starter. 

http://www.centurytool.net/XP400_Schumacher_12_Volt_400_Peak_Amp_Instant_Port_p/shuxp400.htm 

The description states that the unit has an "On/Off Switch Activates the Jump Starting Mode" which would probably have nearly the same output as a booster charger. It goes on to state that there is a "12 Volt Accessory Outlet", I am no expert here and don't pretend to be but I wouldn't want to connect my vaporizer to the "jump start mode" cables of this device, I would think that the "12 Volt Accessory Outlet" would be the place to connect your vaporizer. 

Which one did you connect your vaporizer to?


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## Davers (Aug 6, 2014)

I used the Varrocleaner.


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## Davers (Aug 6, 2014)

That's the one I used. The 12 Volt outlet looks like a cigarette hole. How would I connect the two cables to the outlet hole?


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## BeeBop (Apr 23, 2015)

Do you have a voltmeter? I'd like to know what the voltage is on the boost output that you used. (not the 12v accessory outlet)


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## Davers (Aug 6, 2014)

There is no setting. The first time I used it last week, I did 3 hives and the 3rd hive took twice as long as the first to vaporize. It says it is used to jump start batteries. Other beeks on this forum have used it and didn't have any problems. I even practiced once before actually using it in the hive. Maybe I should use slatted board to give it more space?


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## Davers (Aug 6, 2014)

I don't have one BeeBop. The unit is an instant on. It says it has 400peak amps. It is the Schumacher xp400


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

How long was it connected in the "on" mode? Is it possible the vap was touching the plastic frames that caught fire? The only time something "like" this happened (no fire) but melted vap pan, the user left it connected to the battery "for a long time."


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## larryh (Jul 28, 2014)

i'm curious to see the burned off end. It sounds like a short. Did the wires melt?


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Reminds me of the old doctors joke, "operation was a success, but the patient is dead".

Seriously though, was the vaporisation timed? for their normal use in an engine, glow plugs are on only for a couple of seconds or so. So left on too long in a vaporiser, not their intended use, it is conceivable bad things could happen.


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## BeeBop (Apr 23, 2015)

The reason I asked about the voltage is because those boosters may have a fairly high voltage under light load. Maybe as much as 15-16 volts or even more. 
And the power that the vaporizer draws will go up as the SQUARE of the applied voltage.

If you assume that the vaporizer glow plug has a resistance of 0.8 ohms (pulling a "reasonable" number out of my *** here) then running at 12 volts it would draw 180 watts. (12 * 12 / 0.8) But at 16 volts it would draw a whopping 320 watts. (16 * 16 / 0.8)

I'm not saying that's the problem but the voltage from that booster would certainly it would be one of the first things I'd check.


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## Davers (Aug 6, 2014)




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## Davers (Aug 6, 2014)

I have had scorch marks in the past but everything seemed normal until I started seeing smoke.


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## Davers (Aug 6, 2014)

How do you stop that from happening snl?


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## Davers (Aug 6, 2014)

None of the bee's attacked me. I think the bee's were stunned. I tried to find the queen but didn't see her. Maybe she survived. I'll check tomorrow.


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## Davers (Aug 6, 2014)

It took the normal time to start vaporizing. About 2 minutes. I started seeing the vapor and then while waiting for the vapor to end, it started smoking. Opened it up and saw flames, so I pulled 5 frames out and tossed water on frames and inside the hive. Some survived. I did the first OA treatment last week and everything went fine. I'll check for the queen tomorrow


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## BeeBop (Apr 23, 2015)

Davers, I took the liberty of fixing your link:
http://s24.photobucket.com/user/davidkoch/media/Davers/20150913_1538021_zps0xxpgqui.jpg.html

That looks like the pan cracked and came apart. Once the glow plug is no longer in good thermal contact with the pan that glow plug would get SERIOUSLY hot in a hurry.
And if the body of the pan serves as the "ground" lead for the plug then when the plug finally separated completely from the pan there was probably plenty of arcing & sparking as it lost electrical contact.

Looks to me like the busted pan started the fire, not the fire burned the end off the pan.


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## BeeBop (Apr 23, 2015)

Davers said:


> None of the bee's attacked me. I think the bee's were stunned.


Bees get pretty docile when you smoke 'em heavily like that eh?


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## rmaxwell (Apr 23, 2014)

BeeBop said:


> Davers, I took the liberty of fixing your link:
> http://s24.photobucket.com/user/davidkoch/media/Davers/20150913_1538021_zps0xxpgqui.jpg.html
> 
> That looks like the pan cracked and came apart. Once the glow plug is no longer in good thermal contact with the pan that glow plug would get SERIOUSLY hot in a hurry.
> ...


I had the exact same thing happen to my Varrocleaner pan. It didn't catch fire but separated from the rod as I pulled it out of the hive after the second treatment of the day. It seemed like the metal was so thin it just melted where the rod runs through the pan. Fortunately, my hive didn't catch fire but I had to open the hive to the bottom board to retrieve the pan. I was also pleased that the company I purchased the Varrocleaner from exchanged it for a new one. In my case, it was connected to the 12 volt battery of a Mazda B2300 pickup. I had only used it a couple times.

I have since purchased the Oxavap which is a little pricier, but the design seems a little more substantial. I still use the Varrocleaner in some of my hives because the pan is a little more shallow and I have a few entrance reducers that the Oxavap won't fit through. I prefer not to remove the entrance reducer if possible so I use the Varrocleaner on those. I'm curious if this has happened to others besides the two of us and if there is something you can do to prevent it from happening.

I was concerned when my pan came loose from the rod that it would cause the hive to catch fire. I'm glad that didn't happen to me but this confirms my fears at the time were not unfounded.


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

opcorn:

Sorry for your loss. following. G


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## Billboard (Dec 28, 2014)

J


rmaxwell said:


> I'm curious if this has happened to others besides the two of us and if there is something you can do to prevent it from happening.
> .


Don't buy that vaporizer again!!


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Since the oav unit is so unreliable why not go back to the basics.
I tried yesterday to ask Barry via a PM if I can release my stationary OAV gadget plan here to 
a few select BS members. So far no response from him yet so I don't know if he has received my
message or not.
This year the summer mites and the oav unit had taken away many hives reading on BS.
I am in a good mode to mentor a select few to release my stationary oav gadget plan while guiding them along
the way step-by-step. I spent one day, 11 hours making 2 new units yesterday (all documented with pics along the way of how to build) using primitive tools since I don't
have the fancy tools. Fancy tools will cut down the time considerably. Very simple to make and effect too at 100% kill rate. No fire to catch on because the heat source is external under the hive. No heavy battery to carry around or any wiring need. Est. to be $7 dollars to make for the whole thing.
If snl's oxyvap unit catches on fire then I have a very good reason to release my plan on the web. So far his is o.k. it seems. But I don't want this simple yet
disruptive technology both for the mites and the oav unit sellers, to be lost after 100 years. The second generation-V2 has more upgrades than the first one.
Maybe you can go back to the seller to ask for your hive lost compensation. I am sure he will give you a fair price for your lost.


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

Why would you feel it necessary to ask Barry if it was ok to PM a BS member about something you wanted to share with said member? G


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## ljbee (Apr 27, 2015)

Slides in under the screened bottom board. (with heat shield)


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

I guess Barry couldn't care less.
It is the oavu sellers that care the most.
Thanks for pointing at the right direction.


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## Davers (Aug 6, 2014)

larryh said:


> i'm curious to see the burned off end. It sounds like a short. Did the wires melt?


No the wires didn't melt


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## DanielD (Jul 21, 2012)

It simply looks like the aluminum got too hot, started to melt and separated at the hole. Arcing at that point could start a fire.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Agreed, the Al is too thin at that point, right next to the glow plug.


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

Aluminum is combustible. 
Quickly scanned thru this thread and probably missed something but without a doubt aluminum can catch fire and burn. 

The US Army shot a Bradley armored vehicle with armor piecing rounds to test it. The armored truck was set up as if for battle, fully loaded with ammo and fuel etc. IT BURNED FOR AT LEAST 4 DAYS. Nine inches of aluminum "armor" burned up. Throw some beer cans into a fire and try collecting up the molten aluminum if you don't believe me. Try.


What did we learn here? 
Do not buy an OAV with an aluminum pan


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## WWW (Feb 6, 2011)

aunt betty said:


> What did we learn here?
> Do not buy an OAV with an aluminum pan


I cannot agree with this statement, after seeing the picture of the pan it is obviously a design flaw, Al and Oldtimer are correct, the aluminum is much too thin around the hole. it is obvious after seeing the picture that the pan didn't burn up as first stated and if the design is flawed I would question the quality of the aluminum as well. You get what you pay for, buy a quality vaporizer to begin with and save yourself the grief and yes there are quality aluminum pan vaporizers out there on the market.


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## texanbelchers (Aug 4, 2014)

The melting point of AL is 1220F (660C). Furthermore, yes, AL can burn, it is used in propellants for various rounds and rockets. However, it must be very small particles and is ignited by other explosives or flames.

That said, "The heating element of a modern glow plug reaches a temperature of over 1,000 °C within only a few seconds." from page 4 of http://beru.federalmogul.com/sites/default/files/ti_04_gb_2014_fm.pdf If it were to break free of the heat sink and come in contact with plastic and wax, it could realistically cause problems.

Now I need to put current limiting as well as temperature control into my design. Back to the drawing board.....


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

texanbelchers said:


> The melting point of AL is 1220F (660C). Furthermore, yes, AL can burn, it is used in propellants for various rounds and rockets. However, it must be very small particles and is ignited by other explosives or flames.
> 
> That said, "The heating element of a modern glow plug reaches a temperature of over 1,000 °C within only a few seconds." from page 4 of http://beru.federalmogul.com/sites/default/files/ti_04_gb_2014_fm.pdf If it were to break free of the heat sink and come in contact with plastic and wax, it could realistically cause problems.
> 
> Now I need to put current limiting as well as temperature control into my design. Back to the drawing board.....


Arc Fault Interrupters too!

Yes I would say the aluminum split at the hole (where there was far too little material margin) and the heating element, losing its heat sink, would then rise to temperatures well adequate to ignite wood and wax.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

crofter said:


> Yes I would say the aluminum split at the hole (where there was far too little material margin) and the heating element, losing its heat sink, would then rise to temperatures well adequate to ignite wood and wax.


There were well over 1,000 of these units sold by various dealers including myself. This is the first one known to cause a fire. Yes, one too many, but they are heating units and unfortunately sometimes heating units fail no matter the controls you put on them.


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## Little-John (Jun 18, 2015)

beepro said:


> I guess Barry couldn't care less.
> It is the oavu sellers that care the most.
> Thanks for pointing at the right direction.


I don't know WHY your post was pulled - but it did read a bit like someone selling snake-oil - claims of 100% kill-rate and so on. Totally impossible with OAV during the season of course, and highly unlikely even during winter. 4 treatments every 5 days might get you close to 100%, but not just the one dose. Maybe less of a 'sales-pitch' (yes, I do know the plans were free) would help with Barry's acceptance ? BTW - just trying to help - not start a war ...

Back to the thread topic ...
Mains battery chargers normally have a voltage of around 20 volts 'lumpy DC' - but dunno about the one the OP used. Knowing the voltage to be fed into a timed unit is essential and needs to be measured (or known for sure) beforehand.

I've fitted my own DIY unit with a thermocouple, so that temperature of the OA pan can be monitored in real-time. Not an expensive thing to do these days, thanks to cheap gear from China.

LJ


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## Robbin (May 26, 2013)

+1 on the upgrade from the cleaner to the Oxavap...


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Little-John said:


> ... a bit like someone selling snake-oil - claims of 100% kill-rate and so on. Totally impossible with OAV during the season of course, and highly unlikely even during winter. 4 treatments every 5 days might get you close to 100%, but not just the one dose.
> LJ


For now I will just leave my claim as is. It is impossible to know until the users have actually experienced it.
And I'm not selling anything to anyone either other than the free information to the builders without getting overwhelmed in
the process. All materials are from the local builder's area not from me. Anyways, I have some pics for you to see. 
Yes, inside a 3 hive boxes colony it is impossible to get them all but in a 5 frames nuc it will wiped out the entire free running mites with only one treatment because of the reduced frame space and the expanded oav coverage area. Something you don't know is that the coverage area will enable more
killing power than the small pan battery wired unit out there. Here is a vid link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4D2vLtiF2fI
of the first V1 version of this gadget. V2 is even more powerful than the first-V1. Until you have designed, built and experimented on the oav unit you really don't know how to maximize on the coverage area inside the hive. I think mine is good enough for my hives set up now. And I currently almost have no more mites to further my test/treatment. So have to save some in there for my Spring mite experiments using this stationary oav gadget--V2 (2nd version) I just made with a vid of it in action too. 
Because the way I structured my post last time it seems too strange so it got deleted. My intention wasn't too clear either. Many will not go for it because it is going to be an ongoing
support given the detailed nature of this gadget but not hard to build just too much details. Many will not do it because I cannot provide a documentation of it just
my ongoing support until done. So I have to break it down piece by piece something that I cannot do if posted on the open forum. Will get swamped for sure. Now it became even more suspicious I know. We are dealing with OA vapor here so have to pay attention to each individual unit from build to the test trials. Not every unit built is going to be 100% flawless even for the commercial ones. Because I am the one who is responsible for the builder/operator safety and all. I have to make sure that everything is done right because my reputation is at stake here including the potential liability that I don't want to get into. So I have to thanks Barry for pulling down the post in a short amount of time. Who would want to spend an entire winter building it anyway? The transfer of knowledge and information is not so easy on an open forum. So if no takers then I will just leave everything as is for now. In the mean time here are some healthy Fall bees and the remaining dead mites I took 2 night ago from the V2 treatment. Almost no more mites in there to kill.  During the treatment process nothing get burn down or catch on fire in there only all clean oa burning of course. I expected skepticism so only I know how effective it is for now.


Simple effective stationary oav gadget--V2:


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

beepro said:


> Yes, inside a 3 hive boxes colony it is impossible to get them all but in a 5 frames nuc it is [HIGHLIGHT]more than 100% direct kill [/HIGHLIGHT]on the free running mites with only one treatment.


How can it possibly kill _MORE _than 100% of the mites? :scratch:


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> How can it possibly kill _MORE _than 100% of the mites? :scratch:


:scratch: :lpf:


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

dups!


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> How can it possibly kill _MORE _than 100% of the mites? :scratch:


Oops, thanks for pointing out my grammar error. Thinking and typing is not the same thing. Reading and hands on
beekeeping is not the same either. Glad you found my errors though. This will help to improve my writing the next
time. Using a spell and grammar check is too unnatural. I rather learn it the hard way.


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## Bob J (Feb 25, 2013)

I had a member of my club set fire to their hive while doing OAV.... I don't know the particulars but will post when I find out....


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## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

This is weird. I can be a blundering idiot at times and can turn a simple operation into a Benny Hill episode, but I have never caught a hive on fire!! I have left the OAV (heilyser) on for 3 minutes once while doing other stuff while it was doing its work, no fire and no dead bees!! I have also scorched the bottom of frames and melted burr comb. When doing a hive now, I stick the device in the hive and if it bumps into something, I pull it back just a bit and fire away.......and pay attention to the time instead of jacking around!!

And of course Beepros device kills all mites in a five frame nuc that are crawling around outside the cells, that's what OA is SUPPOSE to do!! Nothing new there Beepro, and yes your posts are quirky at best.


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

When re-reading the thread I picked up on the 400 amp power supply. 

Is it possible for a member to use an amp-clamp on their vape while correctly OAV'ing and tell us what the amps reads? 400 seems like a lot of power. Some of the vape manufactures use them crimp quick-connect connectors which would fail at 400 amps and that could start a fire...1200 degrees is completely possible and that would ignite the aluminum which was gone, remember? (burned off is what op said)


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

A 400 amp power supply connected to a device does _*not *_mean that that device will get 400 amps passing through it.

Your house likely has a 200 amp panel, but _nothing _in your house gets 200 amps through it.

The amps passing through a device, in this case a vaporizer (heater) is a function of its resistance (measured in ohms) for a given voltage. _Typical _commercial vaporizers and glow plug versions are around 13 amps with a 12 volt supply. 

Of course, if you foolishly hook it up to say 120 volts, the 13 amps will be significantly exceeded for a _brief_ period, and then you will likely have a 'smoked' vaporizer and (hopefully) a tripped breaker in your electrical panel. _snl _will have a new sales opportunity at that point!


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

Rader, 
Thank you for your activity, and constant voice of reason and knowledge here on Beesource. G


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

I use my stationary oav gadget to treat the 10 frame hives on every bee hatch. And before making
new mating nucs out of them.
So far the bees are healthy going into our early Fall here. And the mites are reduced significantly without much dwv and
crawling new bees from the last hatch. The 5 frames nuc is just for an example only. The goal is to knock down as many
mites as I can enabling the vsh/survivor queen to establish her hive. Then no treatment to see how the bees manage the mites 
through out the seasons. And select the queens to graft from the fewer mite hives. If you do it right then the heavy duty aluminum cover
will not catch on fire in a 2 seconds maneuver. There is more room for improvement on the V3 and V4, etc. Zippppp! And Done!


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

I missd your instructions to build the device, but any chance of a pic?


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Sorry, OT.
This project is on hold until further notice from Barry.
At this point I cannot disclose anymore information on an open forum.
If we do it we will do it all the way from beginning until the end.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

OK, no worries.

You still working on it at home?


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## scorpionmain (Apr 17, 2012)

I just saw this thread and it made me think of the way I vaporize.
I use a Varrox and after using it I noticed scorch marks on my wooden-ware.
To remedy this I took some aluminum foil and wrapped it heavily around the pan.
Leaving it open but covering the bottom and enough wadded up along the pans edge so it does not contact any wood.
Works for me. No more scorching.


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## Davers (Aug 6, 2014)

I'm the beek that had the fire, so I reordered the Varrox and bought slatted racks which many help for extra ventilation and the space created would help separate the pan from the plastic frames. I like your remedy also scorpionmain. Thank You.


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## jakec (May 26, 2015)

following.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

OT, the work is all done and trial tested in operation now.
Awaiting Barry's decision to release it here. Something he really
has to think about even though he is busy now.


So once the aluminum wrapped around the oav unit it will not burn.
Does the heat source melt the aluminum foil too? Do you have to change 
the foil often, when?


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## Knisely (Oct 26, 2013)

owing


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## scorpionmain (Apr 17, 2012)

beepro said:


> So once the aluminum wrapped around the oav unit it will not burn.
> Does the heat source melt the aluminum foil too? Do you have to change
> the foil often, when?


The foil doesn't burn.
It will get some discoloration to it, but it hasn't burnt or melted.
I have been using the same wad of foil this entire season, but will replace eventually.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

So if the thin aluminum has to be changed ever so often then
why not use the heavier duty type? Is there a way to get them
other than the Reynolds heavy duty foil? Maybe a thicker version should last longer, eh.


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## scorpionmain (Apr 17, 2012)

beepro said:


> So if the thin aluminum has to be changed ever so often then
> why not use the heavier duty type? Is there a way to get them
> other than the Reynolds heavy duty foil? Maybe a thicker version should last longer, eh.


Meh, who cares?
I never said if it was Heavy Duty or Regular.
I haven't looked to see which type it is. It's whatever the wife buys and stores in the kitchen. 
It's cheap, on hand & readily available for me, and works.
Use whatever you want.


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