# Mann Lake medium frames and Mann Lake wax foundation



## Wisnewbee (Apr 8, 2011)

I've been having problems with the wired with hooks wax foundation I purchased from Mann Lake fitting the frames I purchased from Mann Lake. The foundation is too tall. The bottom bars I'm using are grooved. You would think that a company would make sure their products fit together. When I called about it, the rep told me they have this problem every year or 2. They then readjust the foundation mill and things are okay for awhile. No apolgies, no sorry for your troubles. I'm having to cut wires and trim wax on every sheet of foundation. I like the free shipping from Mann Lake, but with this lack of quality control, I think they've seen their last purchase from me. Hand trimming 300 sheets of foundation is a pain in the butt! FYI, the foundation was purchased at different times, so the problem has been going on for awhile. Anyone else having any issues like this?

Wisnewbee


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

What? Did they offer to mke it right? Every time I had a problem they offered to fix the issue. Trimming 300 sheets of foundation is NOT an option.


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

I'm surprised you would get that kind of response from Mann Lake. I would ask to speak to a manager and go as far up as I could to get it resolved. They've been excellent in my experience in customer service. Their stuff isn't the best, I'll say that but it's good enough relative to my budget.


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## Thermwood (May 29, 2010)

We encountered the exact same problem with frames and wax foundation with crimped wire that we purchased from DADANT last year.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

There is no need to use crimp wires, I find them a nuisance. I use GBB and GTB horizontal wired with no hook foundation. No need to remove a cleat and easier to renovate with no nailed in cleat. Nailing a cleat over the hooks is overkill in my opinion. Be careful / go slow on the first extraction if you are using deeps for honey frames, our thick honey can make an occasional pullout from the grooves if the wires are not tight enough.


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## RAWMAWTAW (Mar 7, 2011)

Hello from Coastal California, I had the same issue with foundation I bought from Dadant this year. First year beekeeper first time ordering from Dadant. I have bought from my local supply store and did not have foundation issues fitting properly. I do prefer free shipping and feel more supply stores should offer option when you meet a $$ amount. My next order will be from Mann Lake for comparrison with other products I have purchased. 

On another note, I have caught 4 swarms this year one from my singal hive and 3 others from swarm calls I have received the phone keeps ringing for swarm removal here on the coast. All hives are building up fast. I went from 1 to 5 hives in 2 months.


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## Wisnewbee (Apr 8, 2011)

They did not make any attempt or offer to make things right. The Reps response was such that you'd think this was a regular thing, and to be expected. I had used Dadant frames and foundation earlier in the year and if fit beautifully. I guess all the big supply houses could stand a little better quality control from what others are saying.

RAWMAWTAW, what's taking you so long? 1 to 5 in 2 months? That's why I'm doing so many frames right now. I went from 2 to 14 in a month. 11 were from swarms. 

Just kidding about what's taking so long! Way to go!

Wisnewbee


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## jhs494 (May 6, 2009)

If you have a access to a paper cutting guillotine the kind used by teachers and such. These work great for trimming wax, even with the wires. I use an old one that we have and cut starter strips for foundationless frames. 

JMTC

Joe


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

odfrank said:


> There is no need to use crimp wires, I find them a nuisance. I use GBB and GTB horizontal wired with no hook foundation. No need to remove a cleat and easier to renovate with no nailed in cleat. Nailing a cleat over the hooks is overkill in my opinion. Be careful / go slow on the first extraction if you are using deeps for honey frames, our thick honey can make an occasional pullout from the grooves if the wires are not tight enough.


I don't know why you guys go through all of that. Why not just use plastic foundations like Pierco or Mann Lake? :s

(I'm going to catch hell for this post)


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## Wisnewbee (Apr 8, 2011)

I'm going to be switching to Pierco myself. The labor savings will be huge!
Wisnewbee


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## Desert Viking Ranch (Mar 1, 2011)

Charlie B said:


> I don't know why you guys go through all of that. Why not just use plastic foundations like Pierco or Mann Lake? :s
> 
> (I'm going to catch hell for this post)


Better yet - why even use foundation? Foundationless is the way to go


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## Wisnewbee (Apr 8, 2011)

Unless you're running your frames through a high speed extractor. Without wires or plastic, the comb flies apart. My frames with vertical and horizontal wires aren't strong enough to go in the commercial beek's extractor that I work with. He is spinning so fast, my frames would explode. He uses only plastic foundation. I'm just trying to use up the last of my wax foundation before switching to Pierco.
Wisnewbee


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## Timothy (Jul 24, 2006)

Had the same problem just put toether 300 of them, i just ran the bottom bar over the table saw and made the groove just a bit deeper , took no time at all,


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## berkshire bee (Jan 28, 2007)

I had the opposite happen with Betterbee frames and foundation. It was barely long enough to go into the groove in the bottom.


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## jeff123fish (Jul 3, 2007)

I got 2 25lb boxes of deep foundation last year from Mann Lake all of it was 3/8ths of an inch short after fussing with about 30 of them I finally called they offered to replace the whole order, the offer was good enough for me


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## K.E.N. (May 5, 2011)

I had the same thing happen to me at Dadnt but they were short by about 1/2 inch. I now use Ritecell from Mannlake and don't have any problems anymore.


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

I have never had an issue with Mann Lake. This surprises me. They have always been awesome to me.


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

Desert Viking Ranch said:


> Better yet - why even use foundation? Foundationless is the way to go


That's ideal but some of my hives don't get it and they build really crazy comb so I started putting in a plastic foundation frames in every other space and they get that and do a great job. But I got lazy waxing  the starter strips so I just put in plastic now. Some hives build on it faster than others but haven't had any problems so far.


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## gstephan1981 (Dec 21, 2009)

When I was at Mann Lake's "bee day", I was visiting with some people about this same issue. I was told, that because of the discrepancies in the "wired" foundation, that when you order frames for it, be sure to request wedged top bars and "divided" bottom bars. I am told this will completely alleviate any problems you have with foundation bowing....Hope this helps!!!


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## Kazzandra (Jul 7, 2010)

Oh yes-- crappy divided bottom bars, aka propolis traps. So their answer was literally change your equipment and method of doing things so they can continue to produce products with "discrepancies."

There's a supplier I won't be doing business with.


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## K.E.N. (May 5, 2011)

I have to update my response to this thread! I *was* using ritecell but found out that the bees really don't like plastic. If they do draw on it it takes them 3 to 4 times longer to fill a frame. I have now stopped wasting money on foundation all together. In 1 week my hives have filled the foundationless frames I have installed. You wont catch me using foundation anymore. If I had known this back on May 2 when I installed 2 packages I would have surplus honey coming out of my ears.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

Kazzandra said:


> Oh yes-- crappy divided bottom bars, aka propolis traps. So their answer was literally change your equipment and method of doing things so they can continue to produce products with "discrepancies."
> 
> There's a supplier I won't be doing business with.


No. Their answer was order the proper frames for the foundation that you want to use. Pretty basic - wedge top bar with hook foundation you need a split bottom bar. Why would you blame the supplier when the customer ordered incompatible parts? And for the "propolis traps" comment....well there are lots of small spaces in a hive that get filled with propolis and why is this such a problem? Besides, when you use the proper size foundation it will fit between the split and if they secure the foundation with propolis then great. Most of the time they fill it with wax.


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

K.E.N. said:


> I have to update my response to this thread! I *was* using ritecell but found out that the bees really don't like plastic. If they do draw on it it takes them 3 to 4 times longer to fill a frame. I have now stopped wasting money on foundation all together. In 1 week my hives have filled the foundationless frames I have installed. You wont catch me using foundation anymore. If I had known this back on May 2 when I installed 2 packages I would have surplus honey coming out of my ears.


I too have to update my post on this thread. No more plastic for me. I experimented with foundationless on three of my hives and pretty much had the same experience as K.E.N. I would not have known the difference had I not tried foundationless. I liked the plastic because it was much less work but now I really see the difference. Even when I alternated frames, they filled out the foundationless before the plastic.


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