# Mini frames with "Honey Super Cell"



## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

I have some scraps of "Honey Super Cell" that I thought of using in mating nucs.

I'm thinking that the young bees might accept the plastic fairly well.

What do you think?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

If you heat the plastic to 200 F and dip it in 200 F wax and shake off the excess they will accept it the same as drawn comb. If you don't, they will probably not like it. If you can get it accepted in the brood nest of a strong hive first, you'll have better luck, I think.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

*Dipping HSC*



Michael Bush said:


> If you heat the plastic to 200 F and dip it in 200 F wax and shake off the excess they will accept it the same as drawn comb. If you don't, they will probably not like it. If you can get it accepted in the brood nest of a strong hive first, you'll have better luck, I think.


 
Would I have satisfactory results by dipping the HSC pieces through a layer of wax floating in a large pot of water?


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## Velbert (Mar 19, 2006)

*Hsc Mini Nuc's*

http://s59.photobucket.com/albums/g307/vlwbee/?action=view&current=100_0823.jpg

My mini nucs have 4 top bars i would just put in 2 at a time with HSC and 2 with wax foundation some layed in HSC quicker than others.


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## purvisgs (Apr 5, 2008)

velbert- how did you glue the hsc to the top bar?

satisfactory results gluing?

did you try only giving hsc in minis ? did bees abscond or eventually accept it?

did you dip in wax / or anything else to entice bees to use hsc?

I also have some hsc pieces that I was considering using for this purpose

thank you


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## Velbert (Mar 19, 2006)

purvisgs said:


> velbert- how did you glue the hsc to the top bar? silicon red
> 
> satisfactory results gluing? not good enought --will use a sheet rock screws next time through the top bar
> 
> ...


 
Look at my photobucket pictures you will see a full size hives of HSC I put on 40 hives of HSC


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## Bizzybee (Jan 29, 2006)

I used clear liquid nails and I'm not sure if I could get them back out if I wanted to? That's some taught stuff. It's going to be spring before I try them out though.

Seems like a good idea, will know soon enough. :scratch:


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## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

Biz,

have you actually taken one and tested it to see how strong it is?
I made some mediums out of HSC

http://www.drobbins.net/bees/hsc/

I used polyurethane glue
the ones where the frames are full of HSC allowed me to shoot a few brads through the end bars to help strengthen things, they've held up fine
the ones with just a quarter piece of HSC don't allow this and really aren't too strong
I have some more to make up and will try liquid nails if it's working well for you

Dave


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## Bizzybee (Jan 29, 2006)

I set up about 20 of the original 3 frame mini nucs I got from Mann Lake some time back. I put a bead of the stuff across the top bar and on the sides. Wrapped tape around them to hold the end bars up tight until they set up. Took the tape off the next day. I got down on them pretty hard and they didn't show any sign at all of coming loose. 

I made them up late this year and the weather/bloom just didn't cooperate at all for making any more queens so I just packed them up til next year. I don't think I'm going to have any trouble with them as far as coming loose is concerned?


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## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

ok, so if I understand correctly you put it in mini-frames where the HSC fit in the frame and you could glue it all around?
this is pretty much the same as me making up medium frames
not much sticks well to the polyethylene the HSC is made of
I'll try a little experiment with liquid nails and report back
with the polyurethane I glued some of the scrap endbars together and could rip them apart by hand
will let you know about liquid nails

Dave


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

*That Worked Well... dipping warmed HSC through wax on water.*



Michael Bush said:


> If you heat the plastic to 200 F and dip it in 200 F wax and shake off the excess they will accept it the same as drawn comb. If you don't, they will probably not like it. If you can get it accepted in the brood nest of a strong hive first, you'll have better luck, I think.


I dipped the warmed HSC pieces through a layer of wax floating in a large pot of water and it worked very well.

The HSC "chunks" have a nice thin film of wax applied to them. I wish it was as easy to get the PF-120's coated.

Here are a few pictures

Plain chunk of Honey Super Cell









"My" mini-frame made from grooved bottom bar.










HSC dipped and mounted in its frame


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Would I have satisfactory results by dipping the HSC pieces through a layer of wax floating in a large pot of water?

Let us know how they accept it.


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## purvisgs (Apr 5, 2008)

*glue*

personal experience with liquid nails type products:

the very best you can get is PL Premium construction adhesive. Used successfully for bonding dissimilar materials (underwater) in several boat projects of mine. stays somewhat flexible but very strong. is holding the swivel base/ exit of my observation hive together. 

Would suggest you try this / I plan to for hsc pieces but this year not to the top bar but to the bottom bar of foundationless frames with comb guide on top bar

I am very interested in hsc for mating nucs but sounds like this year I will probably give them at least one frame of something else because of limited resources-I'd rather not have them abscond...


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## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

purvisgs,

the problem is the material HSC is made of (polyethylene)
not much bonds to it very well
I found once you saw it up into the shapes you want you can do nice experiments with the endbars you're going to discard
If you find something that works well, let us know

Dave


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## purvisgs (Apr 5, 2008)

dave-

thank you,

I have read through some of the relevant older discussions and was aware of the difficulties of gluing polyethylene, my suggestion was just in reference to using liquid nails- PL Premium construction adhesive, I have found to be much stronger than liquid nails construction adhesive-

HOWEVER, I realize now that liquid nails clear may be a different product entirely from liquid nails construction adhesive-

thinking back, this makes sense, I think that I remember some reference to people using the product "goop" -silicon based, I think for attaching things like transducers to PE kayaks...

a quick search regarding kayaks came up with this link-
http://www.epoxyworks.com/16/bondingskeg.html
I don't know that epoxy is the best option because it is so rigid, but the idea of roughing up the surface and then heat treating the plastic prior to bonding may have some merit with other possible adhesives

i intend to try several options myself this winter: 3m 5200, pl premium, goop/ clear liquid nails, I also may recall some hardware store tube product labeled as " 2 part plastic epoxy" or similar and may try to track this down

also, my kayak search came up with another product (EXPENSIVE) which sounds like it should work- west system's g-flex epoxy see here:http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cach...noe&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=firefox-a
and here: http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cach...noe&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us&client=firefox-a

maybe just a few dots of this epoxy would do the trick



sounds like I should probably shoot some brads in as well.... question- I know it is a minor issue but: did the bees use the cells affected by the brad? (not expecting for laying eggs but for honey)?


thank you, good luck


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## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

>>did the bees use the cells affected by the brad?

I don't recall seeing them avoid the brads
of course, as you mention, the brads are around the periphery and hence were honey not brood
let me know if you find an adhesive that works well, I have 80 more mediums to make up

Dave


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

*My "mini's" in a medium frame*

Mounting the frames into medium (grooved) frames won't be a problem but I'm still thinking of the best / simplest way to suspend my frames in the mating nucs... 

I think I have enough top clearance (between the mini and the medium) to attach strips of luan with small screws down through top, into the side piece. This would make "hangers" that would swing out from each side.

Any suggestions? 


The craft sticks used to hold the tops of the mini's in the photo were a little to wide causing the medium frame to bow a little.


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