# OXALIC ACID IN A FOGGER



## chemistbert (Mar 4, 2004)

I would imagine not. OA reguires a rather high temp. It is also acidic and would probably eat the gut out of a fogger.


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## Dr. Pedro Rodriguez (Feb 5, 2002)

I would agree with you field bee. 
FGMO/thymol has been proven to be safe, cost effective, and risk free without damaging your equipment, laboratory proven to leave no residues in honey or wax, no known harmful effects to operators during 5 continuous years of use in several continents.
Best regards and God bless.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I agree. I would assume the OA will corrode the fogger. Also the OA is hydrophillic (likes water) and you could not mix it with oil.


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## roger eagles (Apr 18, 2004)

GREEN ON MITES---how much thymol do ya mix with fgmo?


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## Bob Harrison (Mar 15, 2005)

Having followed the FGMO as a varroa control from the start and with a complete failure of FGMO fogging *alone* by our group in 1998 (all controls & hives FGMO treated crashed).

I wonder now.

With the addition of the top placed cords & fogging FGMO with thymol added have you decided simply fogging FGMO alone as being ineffective?

Sincerely,
Bob Harrison


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## Bob Russell (Sep 9, 2003)

This post appears to be directed to Dr.Rodriguez for an answer.I take it Bob is refering to the Higman report.Many on this site can report FGMO stand alone over a number of years does work for them.The Burgess Fogger model 1443 using ULV (ultra low volume)technology is a unique method of application.In New Zealand we have a can do approach and I personally have spent many hundreds of hours researching the work of and liasing with Dr.Rodriguez over several years towards approval for use of FGMO in our country to treat bees.My correspondence with the engineers at Burgess reveals their new product release to be further enhanced.There will be very good reasons why Oxalic acid has been passed over by fogger application,temperature is not the reason as the coil temperature runs around 300+ degrees celsius.Dr Rodriguez's choice of thymol as a synergist, at such a low concentation makes a lot of sence in the interest of bee and human safety,cost and speed of application free of residue in his samples by (HCLP)High-resolution liquid chromatography by an approved laboritory.Many are taking his work seriously and accept the continuous improvements.


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## stonybrook (Aug 23, 2004)

I experimented a bit about a year ago with applying Oxalic acid via a fogger. The procedure I used was copied exactly from a post I came across from a Mr. Paul van Westendorp who is a Provincial Apiculturist in British Columbia. I Actually phoned Paul and had a wonderful, and informative conversation with him about how he had utilized the fogger with OA. Paul was kind enough to send me his field notes with ratios, concentrations and mixing instructions. The procedure basically entailed disolving a portion of oxalic acid into plain water and then using this solution directly in the fogger. With my limited testing of the process I will say I found the process to work wonderfully well. The fogger produced a nice fog. I have a plain old burgess propane fogger (metal coil and I think an aluminum tip) - I didnt have any trouble with the OA corroding the fogger, however I did only a limited ammount of Oxalic fogging and ran some plain water through the fogger about a week after running the OA solution through it. I still regularly use the fogger with FGMO. I unfortunately gave my copy of the notes I got from Paul to another local beekeeper friend who was going to contine to experiment with the process. If anyone is actually interested, I could try and retrieve them from him and send you a copy. I do recall that Paul advised that the OA/Water solution should be used within 3-4 days as he felt it would destabilize. His advice was to mix up the OA/Water solution and use it immediately, which is what I did both times I experimented with the process. 

Does anyone have any further input, ideas or "watch out for's" in this process? It was very easy when compared with trying to heat the OA in my copper pipe based vapourizer!

thanks!

-t


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## stonybrook (Aug 23, 2004)

Follow up for those who have wrote asking for the notes.

I have contacted my beekeeper friend, and he is going to dig them up and get a copy back to me.

I'll post a summary once I get it.

-t


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## stonybrook (Aug 23, 2004)

Here are the concentrations and comments from the notes on using OA in a burgess fogger.


--start note---

7.5gm oxalic acid crystals
100 ml warm water.

Use warm water, and stir or agitate until crystals are completely disolved. 
Solution must be used within 2 weeks.

Paul had noted the following from his experimentation:

1. It was tough to dissolve the crystals in water. Hot water certainly helped but that is often not readily available in the field. 

2. We had no way of measuring the amount applied to the colony. By placing the nozzle at the hive entrance, we applied repeated bursts of fog until it appeared at top of the bars of the top super (the lid was removed of course). While it appeared to have done something to the mites since the colonies survived the winter well, I am a bit leery about this method because of the unknown quantity of acid being applied. 

--- end note

When I experimented with this method, I had very little problem with disolving the oxalic acid in warm (tap warm) water. The Oxalic acid I used was "rainbow brand - Pure Oxalic Acid" which I bought at a local hardware store. 

I applied the fog the same as paul, through the bottom entrance to the hive, and I left the inner cover on. I gave 4-5 good bursts into the bottom entrance and stopped when I observed the fog being vented through the center opening in the inner cover.


-todd


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## the buzz (Oct 17, 2004)

can this be done at any time? Did you do a mite count before and after?


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## CBoggs (Jun 20, 2014)

Stonybrook. I see your post was back in 2004? Have you ceased Oxy smoking with the burgess, or have you continued? And what has been your experiences.




stonybrook said:


> Here are the concentrations and comments from the notes on using OA in a burgess fogger.
> 
> 
> --start note---
> ...


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

CBoggs - as you probably know, stonybrook's last post on Beesource was in May, 2005. Seems like the guy is long gone.

Also, notice that once someone started asking for before and after mite counts (as "the buzz" did), stonybrook stopped participating in the thread. A sure indication of wishful thinking over actual evidence that a particular mite control method works.


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