# SC and the SHB



## BWrangler (Aug 14, 2002)

Hi Guys,

A phone call from a small cell beekeeper got me to thinking about the shb and sc. I haven't seen any shb in my hives and so I don't have any personal experience with them. But the recent failures of a sc package and queen supplier, attributed to an shb infestation, isn't a very good indicator that sc has much effect on the shb.

Anyone have any experiences to share?

Regards
Dennis
Thinking I'd better get smarter about shb before I move from Wy to Fl.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I've still never seen one in my hives. I saw a lot of them last week in North Carolina. They didn't seem to be causing any problems.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

I have plenty of SHB in my colonies. They don't appear to do significant damage as long as the colony is healthy and vigorous.....so far. My guess is that the same will hold true for SC. If what the SC advocates say is true..that their colonies are healthier, then I expect that SHB will only be a nuisance.
By the way, which SC package and queen supplier failed due to SHB...just curious.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

How would cell size have any impact on SHB?


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## wayacoyote (Nov 3, 2003)

All my hives in AL had SHB including the SC ones. And it wasn't only a few beetles either. 

Waya


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## onlygoodSHBisdeadone (Sep 10, 2005)

Wayacoyote-- doesn't look good for Alabama this year. Have a feeling everyone locals going to have a go around with SHB this year if they didn't last. Good luck. So far I've been keeping numbers in check using dietomacous earth on the SBB insert board.


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## wayacoyote (Nov 3, 2003)

Good luck to you too.

I've reduced my SHB's to near indetectable levels (haven't seen one for quite a while) by using the oil-pan SHB traps that go on bottom boards. Diatomacious earth is probably a good idea. I hear fireants are helpful too. Me, I spread a plastic sheet under the hive to keep them from reaching earth to mature. It also keeps the grass down.

Waya


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## Drugstore (Dec 6, 2005)

Waya,
How large an area around the hives are you covering with the plastic sheets?
Did you get your shb oil-pan traps from Rossman?
These shb may be the undoing of lots of beekeepers this year. I will try all the above, but I might have to resort to checkmight.
luck to you.


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## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

hmm

dietomacous earth
I happen to have a 40 lb bag of it laying around
I have yet to see a SHB but I'm sure they're going to show up
you do what, put it on the slide it tray?
what does this do, kill the larvea?

Dave


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## onlygoodSHBisdeadone (Sep 10, 2005)

Hi Dave.
Yes, You want to place DE on tray out of reach of bees. If your screen is #8 the SHB can pass through as well a larvea and and DE will take them out as well.

Bob


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## Focus on Bees (Mar 6, 2006)

Where do you get your DE from, and how much are you paying? It may even work on mites too.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>It may even work on mites too. 

And maybe even bees...


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## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

I have thought about trying it on bees but was afraid it might kill them
I'd definately try a "DE roll" first
I had to order mine off the web, it's not real easy to find
people use it on chickens to kill mites and dogs to kill fleas

http://www.biconet.com/crawlers/DE.html

Dave

[ March 14, 2006, 02:59 PM: Message edited by: drobbins ]


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## wayacoyote (Nov 3, 2003)

Drugstore,
The SHB traps came from Dadant. They're the plastic ones which you fill with oil. Make sure your bottom board is PERFECTLY flat. A slight imperfection, and the oil won't spread over the whole tray.

As for the plastic sheeting under the hives. The state apiarist said that Guardstar has to be spread 18" around the hive. I took that to mean the distance that a SHB larvae can or will move. So I make sure the plastic reaches 24" just to be sure. Totally untested. But it would make for an interesting research opportunity.

And that the people whose yard the hives are in raise chickens also helps. Of course fireants would help if you have a colony nearby.

Waya


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## Drugstore (Dec 6, 2005)

Waya,
Thanks for your reply. I guess I am more worried about the shb than I am about varroa.
I prefer the oil-pan shb traps over the chemicals.
Having chickens in an apiary might really be the way to go.
My Granfather always kept his beehives in his chicken yard. They took care of bugs, ants, and even grass around the hives.


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## onlygoodSHBisdeadone (Sep 10, 2005)

Yes DE will kill bees if they come in contact so be shure to isolate with no larger than #8 screen so bees do not have access. Co-ops usaully carry it and goes for about $4.00 for a 20lb bag. Just be shure that the only active ingredient is DE and doesn't contain chemical pesticides. Again do not let the bees come in contact with DE as it will kill them.


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## db_land (Aug 29, 2003)

There seems to be a misconception that placing a hive on top of plastic or something will keep the SHB larvae from finding a place in the dirt to pupate. According to this study, the larvae can crawl over 200 meters looking for soil:

Ref page 18 of "Study of the SHB in the USA"
www.rirdc.gov.au/reports/HBE/03-050.pdf


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>the larvae can crawl over 200 meters looking for soil

Over black plastic when the outside temps are 100 F and the plastic is hot enough to sizzle?


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## db_land (Aug 29, 2003)

They may be just dumb larvae but they know enough not to crawl out onto sizzling black plastic. They wait until cool evening -- fewer predators and no frying. These larvae are tough, leathery, skinny -- I doubt a bee could kill one by biting or stinging (she would probably just carry it out of the hive and drop it somewhere).


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## Jim Williamson (Feb 16, 2006)

You can get large bags of clean, high quality diatomaceous earth at most swimming pool supply stores. DE is used in many pool filters. I have a pool and use the same DE by spreading it around my hives. I still see a few SHB, but not many.

As far as SHB larvae crawling, Dr. Jamie Ellis (Univ. of GA) said that he once left a container of SHB larvae open in the laboratory one evening. This next morning they had crawled down two flights of stairs and were headed down the hall toward the door.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

Around here any store that carries pool supplies, even WalMart carry it for filter media.


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## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

Interesting thread. . . .







I'm not so sure that DE is as dangerous to bees and most other insects as has been suggested here. DE, as far as I understand it, works by abraiding the insects as they push or burrow through it. The diatoms (where the name "diatomaceous" comes from) build little shells out of silica (like glass), and when they die, the shells remain. These shells are the component in the DE that makes it effective. Like broken glass, the shells of the diatoms cut and scrape at the "skin" of insects that are pushing through it. As long as no force is applied against the shells by the insects, I would figure that DE would have little or no effect on them.


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## onlygoodSHBisdeadone (Sep 10, 2005)

Insects have no clotting ability. The smallest cut of the exoskeleton,this includes their little feet, will result in them "leaking" or dehidrating to death as the fluid balance can not be maintained. Trust me on this one. You will have dead bees if they are exposed.


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## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

"Insects have no clotting ability. The smallest cut of the exoskeleton,this includes their little feet, will result in them "leaking" or dehidrating to death as the fluid balance can not be maintained. Trust me on this one." -onlygoodSHBisdeadone

Actually, no. They may not form "clots" like mammals do, but it's absolutely not true that any little abrasion or cut will results in them "leaking" to death. Think of how many insects you see that have had amputations of legs, yet still survive for long periods after that. Some (especially walking sticks) can even begin to regrow legs if an amputation occurs early in the life of the insect.

Besides that, who says that bees walking across diatomaceous earth will cut themselves? 

But, I'm game -- I'll test it out on some bees once the bees get to moving (it's still winter here in SD). I'll sprinkle some DE on one group of bees, and plain ol' "non-diatomaceous" earth (as a control) on another group. We'll see if there's a significant difference in the survival of the two groups.


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## onlygoodSHBisdeadone (Sep 10, 2005)

By all means if in doubt test.


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## kenpkr (Apr 6, 2004)

And I'm also curious to hear the result of your experiment, Kieck. 

>So far I've been keeping numbers in check using dietomacous earth on the SBB insert board.<

I think that was Onlygood...'s original point, keep DE only on the SBB insert so that it is out of reach of the bees.
I've noticed a great many larva on my greased SBB insert. So, I'm hoping that a well-sprayed SBB insert will keep the larva from crawling over the side of the insert and reaching the ground.


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## Branman (Aug 20, 2003)

not that there seems to be any doubt about it, but here as well, SC has no effect on SHB at all in my experience.

My problem with the whole killing-the-larvae with plastic etc., once you have larvae leaving the hive, it's WAY too late already in my experience. It may save your other hives, but once I see an infestation, those larvae see the undersides of my shoes or I drown them in a bucket of water(are they good chicken food?). From what I've seen, either you have a small stable population of SHB(and you never see larvae) or it's full-on SHB blitzkrieg assault with larvae overtaking everything. I haven't found a hive with just a few SHB and just a few larvae.

also I sure wouldn't want my bees near DE, sounds like a really, really...really bad idea.


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## onlygoodSHBisdeadone (Sep 10, 2005)

> also I sure wouldn't want my bees near DE, sounds like a really, really...really bad idea.

Yes it can be just as any chemical treatment is if not presented in a safe manner. I've been using it for a year now with no ill effects on the bees and no build up of chemicals in the wax which is possable with the use or other treatments even when used according to proper application.

Just for information test splits were done on two hives last Friday. Hives at time of split showed an estamated count of 5-10 beetles. Sunday evening inspection of split hives insert boards where 89, 67, 10, 0. These counts lead me to believe others were attracted from other hives as the highest count in any one colony in the yard was 27. Point being without DE I feel these newcomers would be live and well doing significant damage to splits instead of dead on the insert. If anything else the sight of dead beetles on the board looks much better then couple thousand squirming larvee. 
Unfortunately past two days have been rainy so I haven't been able to inspect frames but will post as soon as I do.


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