# 'organic' sugar OK to feed to bees?



## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

I can't answer your question but the organic sugar is "raw" unrefined sugar. It may not be harmful to the bees but it is more expensive for her.


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## fafrd (Aug 22, 2009)

It's her dime, not mine, so I don't really care about cost. I'm just the guy that sold her the bees and want to be sure that they don't up and die on her because she prefers (expensive) organic sugar instead of plain 'ol (cheap) refined sugar. So can I assume that whatever the 'raw' stuff is that gets removed from refined sugar it is not bad for bees?

-fafrd


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

Organic is ok but, really expensive. I would go cheaper since you are just building comb etc. It will not give you organic bee's any quicker then cheap sugar will.


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## Countryboy (Feb 15, 2009)

As long as the bees can take regular cleansing flights, they should be fine.


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## Ben Brewcat (Oct 27, 2004)

Honestly it is less suitable for the bees. It's like having their clean nectar injected with a tiny bit of mud; it puts them at risk for dysentery. Sure they can take cleansing flights just like we can run to the toilet 12 times a day, but I wouldn't call it a way to live . Regular table sugar, sucrose, is just fine and ideally suited to honeybee carbohydrate needs. Nectar is largely sucrose (which is no surprise, plant sugar is plant sugar), and the rest are mainly other sugar fractions of sucrose like fructose dextrose and glucose. 

Be careful though, some people have very strong feelings about "natural" foods and such. I eat a lot of organic foods and support the practice, but the reality is that in this instance it really isn't any different to the bees. To the contrary; they'll be healthier with good ole sucrose _without_ the Ex-Lax .


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## fafrd (Aug 22, 2009)

Thanks everyone. So I have understood that organic sugar is no better for the bees, and in addition to being more expensive, contains components other than pure sucrose that may cause mild dysentery.

Sounds like mild dysentery during during the spring is nothing too serious but the point is that if she wants to insit on feeding organic sugar, she is doing it for herself and not for the good of the bees.

Appreciate everyone's help on this.

-fafrd


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Plain white granulated sugar is your best bet to feed bees. Anything else has more solids.


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## kiwiBee (Jul 23, 2009)

This might be slightly off topic I'm not sure but I guess someone will soon tell me if it is!
I've often seen photos of what you guys call the mountain camp method of feeding bees over winter and the photos show what looks to be white sugar is this right or am I seeing things wrong?
The reason I ask is over here we use white sugar for making syrup only and feed raw sugar in dry form only, as we think feeding dry white sugar will cause dysentry in the bees.
kiwi


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## Ben Brewcat (Oct 27, 2004)

fafrd said:


> Sounds like mild dysentery during during the spring is nothing too serious but the point is that if she wants to insit on feeding organic sugar, she is doing it for herself and not for the good of the bees.
> 
> -fafrd


 You nailed it. And there's nothing wrong with doing something for the beekeper, as Maude said "you can't let the world judge you TOO much."


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## postie (Oct 15, 2011)

I see this is an old post, but I'm new here so it's new to me  My question to those who are feeding the plain cheaper white sugar, what about all the round-up that is in that sugar? I don't know how "organic" sugar might affect the bees, but I would think that the Genetically Modified cheaper sugar (which makes up over 90% of sugar sold...world-wide) would definitely be detrimental to bees. I am now looking for an alternative way to feed bees rather than depending on Monsanto sugars. Hope someone revives this post and topic!!!! Maybe our bees are already so used to eating pesticides and herbicides that it doesn't matter, but doesn't seem like a nice way to live for them.


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## HONEYDEW (Mar 9, 2007)

postie said:


> I see this is an old post, but I'm new here so it's new to me  My question to those who are feeding the plain cheaper white sugar, what about all the round-up that is in that sugar?


 Your bees will die of old age long before they'll die from any disease that you could possibly imagine them getting from trace herbicides...remember these are insects not humans, what affects you doesn't necessarily affect them...cough on them when you have a cold, and they wont get your cold....


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## kenny61 (Dec 13, 2009)

As long as the *organic* sugar doesnt still have the molassas in it it would be fine. Im thinking the brown color is molassas and this can give the bees the runs.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

postie said:


> My question to those who are feeding the plain cheaper white sugar, what about all the round-up that is in that sugar?


This is an over generalization of what is in sugar bought off of the store shelves of grocery stores and other sugar sold for human consumption. Show me the RoundUp in sugar. If it is in there then you have it in you too, most likely.


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## postie (Oct 15, 2011)

That is absolutely true, which is why I no longer consume it myself. I was very dismayed to find that also there are people growing "round-up ready" crops near my area...I was hoping to be in an area away from this practice! Systemic pesticides flow through all parts of the genetically modified plants and crops and it is not only my goal to keep myself healthy, but also my food-producing animals, including bees. 

However, it is a good point that the bee has such a short lifespan, that it might not be much of an issue for them, unless perhaps there might be a buildup of systemic pesticide/herbicide in their comb. I'll have to research more.

And, by the way...Monsanto Corporation "owns" 90% of the sugar beets from which much "shelf" sugar is derived. Systemic pesticides are also used on cane. Much research is ongoing concerning CCD and though for the most part we cannot control what our bees fly out and eat/gather, we can control what we feed them as a beekeeper.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

IMO
Of all the chemicals/pesticides/herbicides/food additives/clearers/textile chemical/air fresheners/petroleum products/mercury/plastic water bottles/car fumes... we are exposed to round up is one of the safer ones.

The GM crops are a different deal and most should not be eaten.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

postie said:


> we can control what we feed them as a beekeeper.


True, very true. Can you show me the chemical analysis which shows the presence of RoundUp or any pesticide residue in sugar found on store shelves? In all likelihood sugar found on store shelves is cleaner than your or my honey. I doubt that anyone would look down on ultrafiltered sugar.


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## Rusty67 (Mar 9, 2010)

The real threat to short-term honey bee health is the high ash content of organic sugar, which is usually manufactured from evaporated cane juice. It has a much higher ash content than refined white sugar and can definitely contribute to honey bee dysentery. I originally thought it wouldn't be much of a problem until I started researching the numbers. Even though I use organic sugar in my kitchen, I would not give it to bees.

For examples of ash content of honey, refined sugar, and organic sugar see http://www.honeybeesuite.com/is-organic-sugar-better-for-bees/


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## postie (Oct 15, 2011)

Definitely makes sense about the ash in organic sugar, plus I'm still on the track that the life-span of the bee is so short, not much would build up over time (other than hive/wax buildup).

And, as far as "clean" sugar on the store shelves...maybe, maybe not...but I will try my very best NOT to support the GMO seed corporations that contaminate our crops and that includes sugar. And, "round-up ready" crops are the ones that are Genetically Modified...there are many videos on the viruses and bacterias used to do this. I regret that some of these crops are growing not too far from my area, I just hope there aren't any too close to my bees! 

Thanks everyone for helping on this older topic. For the newies like me, all opinions are helpful!!!


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## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

The brown color is molasses. There may be trace Roundup in sugar beets, but refined white sugar is the purest chemical you can buy.


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## Bennys Bees (Apr 16, 2014)

He guys , new beekeeper here and relized I did something dumb but wanted to make sure I'm still ok . Started a package bee April 15 and used unrefined cane sugar (organic). I quickly switch after reading this post on April 24 . To refined white . Am I too late ? Should everything be ok ? Bees look ok but I'm hoping I didn't damage the bees or queen


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

If they're still alive and working away, they should be fine. It certainly isn't good to feed them sugar with high solids content, like organic sugar, and it will likely cause trouble if it is done for very long. It sounds like you've probably revised your feeding practices, well before any serious issues have developed.

It would only ever, actually do some harm to workers. The queen doesn't often feed from sources such as sugar syrup or even honey, though she can if she so chooses. She is usually fed royal jelly, produced in the pharyngeal gland in nurse worker bees heads.


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## FollowtheHoney (Mar 31, 2014)

Organic sugar comes in many forms including refined cane sugar, it is just very common to see it in a raw unrefined state. Feeding bees sugar syrup without ag chemicals is not harmful.
My local BJ's sells Florida Crystals brand organic cane sugar and I will use it until I decide it may be too pricey. I can't speak for her brown syrup, as I don't know what she used.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Benny the worst time to feed the bees brown sugar is for their winter feed. At that time they can be confined in the hive by weather & if they are eating brown sugar and pooping on each other it will spread infections such as nosema disease and in an extreme case result in the death of the hive.

However you have fed in spring, a time when weather permits them to get out to poop. Still not ideal cos some bees are too young to get out, and others may poop in the hive for various reasons. But the negative effect of brown sugar is primarily the spread of disease, which does take time to have a cumulative effect, you have now switched to refined sugar, no further damage being done, no point worrying about it.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I see my bees working the rotting pears on the ground in the fall after the yellow jackets chew them open. It gives them the runs, but sometimes it's the best they can find at that point in time just before the goldenrod blooms... it probably won't kill them unless it's in the fall. Solids in their sugar makes poor winter feed...


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## Bennys Bees (Apr 16, 2014)

Thanks guys . I'll monitor and make sure I don't slip up again .


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## Old_Jimma_Old_Country (Aug 9, 2015)

*Scientific facts on "raw sugar," molasses, and dysentary*

Dear Beekeepers:



I read this thread and decided to share a few scientific facts:

1. "Dysentary" is not CAUSED by molasses. Molasses is a natural laxative. Buy some of it when you become old like Old Jimma. It'll help you. :thumbsup:

2. Don't feed your bees molases. :no:

3. "Dysentary" is caused by 1 of 2 critters: (1) Entamoeba histolytica amoeba and (2) shigella bacterium. Have a look at: http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/171193.php 

4. If you think your sugar has either, you can boil it in water for 3 or more minutes if you are at sea level (more minutes are required at higher elevations), and you'll kill both sources of "Dysentary." :applause:

5. "Turbinado" sugar, often called "raw sugar," has no molasses. Have a look at: http://healthland.time.com/2012/02/29/better-than-sugar-5-natural-sweeteners-demystified/

6. Scared of feeding your bees GMO stuff? Dear gentle beekeepers... there is NOTHING that you eat (except for water), that is not derived from somehow genetically modifying your food (or the food you use to supplement your bees' diet). Homosapiens have been at modifying crops genetics for the purpose of increasing yield disease resistance since we started out.... especially from where I'm from: The Old Country. 

7. If you shop around the very large "farmer's markets" in urban areas you can find 50lb bags of turbinado ("raw sugar") for half the price of refined white sugar. 

I hope this helps people think about the issues more carefully, and helps folks keep their bees alive. Surely one thing we all can agree on is that bees are important, especially in "the Old Country." :thumbsup:

Devotedly,
Old Jimma from the Old Country


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

*Re: Scientific facts on "raw sugar," molasses, and dysentary*

Don't be fooled by articles about humans and sugar. Bees are not humans. 

High levels of solids in sugar (typically in sugars that are not _bright white_, such as molasses, brown sugar, and a variety of 'organic' sugars) represent a high ash content that must be pooped out by the bees. If flying (pooping) opportunities for bees are limited by weather, then they have to '_hold it in_'. If they can't hold it any longer, then the colony can develop a serious problem. Avoid feeding colored sugars and avoid that problem - stick to plain granulated sugar.

Read what Kelly says about this: https://www.kelleybees.com/Blog/1/Healthy-Bees/269/Streaked-Honey-Dysentery

.


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## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

kiwiBee said:


> This might be slightly off topic I'm not sure but I guess someone will soon tell me if it is!
> I've often seen photos of what you guys call the mountain camp method of feeding bees over winter and the photos show what looks to be white sugar is this right or am I seeing things wrong?
> The reason I ask is over here we use white sugar for making syrup only and feed raw sugar in dry form only, as we think feeding dry white sugar will cause dysentry in the bees.
> kiwi


I don't think it will cause dysentary quite as quickly as sugar water. The problem is the bees sometimes think it is trash and throw it out the front of the hive. Mountain camp is an emergency feeding method. It is used when it is too cold to give bees sugar water. When there is time to do it sugar bricks are better.


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