# How to get a doc to write a script for Epi-Pens



## Drake (Sep 21, 2008)

I asked my doctor today if he would write a script for epi-pens for use at my house for "just in case" emergencies... He flat out told me he won't do it unless I had a severe allergic reaction to bee strings and after I visited a immunologist to get "desensitized" from bee stings.....

I been in EMS field many years and I know how to administer Epi-pens (required training) and I that my doc doesn't want to be held liable ... But all it takes is once and it could be too late... Plus what happens when someone that doesn't know that they are allergic and has an anaphylactic reaction? By the time EMS arrives it could be too late from them or me...

drake


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## iwombat (Feb 3, 2009)

I just dropped the magic "beekeeper" word and got a script for the kids.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Sounds like your Dr. is acting pretty responsibly to me...

Are you requesting one for you to have on hand to administer
to others????


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## Drake (Sep 21, 2008)

I know original post sounds like I am asking the doc to give me an Epi-pen to admin to others, as I know this is illegal without written doctor orders, then the doctor (or acting MD, medical director) would then be held responsible... I was simply asking for an epi-pen for myself, and was refused till i had the two criteria meet in the first post... a) had a severe reaction b) i see an allergy doc to get "desensitize"

A better solution might be just ask my MD at work to allow to take one home.

drake


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## Nephidoc (Jan 5, 2009)

Sorry your having a hard time with this one. I just know as a doctor you have to live the "Letter" of the law. No being nice... it only gets YOU stung.
I'll give anyone as many epi-pens as they want if you'll pay my malpractice for one year... a mere $80,000.

Stan


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

as an alternative, keep some liquid benedryl around. It will buy you a little time.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I saw a picture of an epi-pen once...


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## dsquared (Mar 6, 2006)

*New Physician*

I'd find a new doctor. When I told my doctor (years ago) that I moved hives occasionally and wanted an Epi pen just in case I did something stupid like dropping a hive, he didn't flinch and wrote me the script. If he hadn't I would have found a new doc. After years of sitting around, I finally threw it away.

This isn't like asking for antibiotics for a cold. He either has no concept of what you are doing, or is more worried about liability than practicing medicine. There are lots of doctors looking for patients.


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## chad (Apr 26, 2009)

you can also buy them online.


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## Matt NY (Jan 14, 2006)

Ross said:


> as an alternative, keep some liquid benedryl around. It will buy you a little time.


It also comes in disolvable form, in case you can't swallow!


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Liquid benadryl is good to have around.

Also, the over the counter inhaler "Primatene Mist" is
epinephrine as well.


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## NasalSponge (Jul 22, 2008)

Michael Bush said:


> I saw a picture of an epi-pen once...


LOL!!:lpf:


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## Haddon (Feb 26, 2009)

Just ask someone you know that has script for them to hand you one thats what I know people have done that dont care about laws all have to tell the doc is I got stung and used it persto new script. But I would never do such a think  
Or you could just take and observations hive in the office and offer to show him how to handle the bee with out the vail you might get the cops called but darn it would be fun to watch.


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## JaiPea (Sep 27, 2005)

Years ago, when I asked my doctor for an Epipen he refused, and told me to buy Primatene Mist because it was epinephrin, safer to use, and lasted longer.

About 3 years ago the ride came to an end. The pharmaceutical lobbyists had been trying to get rid of Primatene Mist for years and eventually the FDA caved in and banned it because the propellant damaged the ozone. It was such an urgent implementation that the FDA refused to give Wyeth (the manufacturers) time to come up with a CFC-free variation.

The FDA said something like "despite Primatene's 40 years of historical use, there is little evidence of its safety and effectiveness." Don't know about you all, but I'd rather trust 40 years of empirical experience than a 2-year study conducted by a pharmaceutical company to justify the FDA blessing their new [expensive] wonder drug.

It wasn't just Primatene Mist, all OTC inhalers were banned. My last batch of Primatene Mist expired last month, and this month bought my first Epipen. Six times the price and half the life is not a bargain, but if it saves a life that's a cheap price to pay.

The Quick Dissolve Benadryl strips are only 25mg each. Don't know how good the advice was, but have been told that if someone is having a reaction they need to swallow a bottle of liquid Benadryl (8oz is approx 250ml) ASAP. If I recall metric correctly, ml=mg so 10 dissolving strips woould equal a bottle of liquid.

Can anyone confirm what dosage of liquid Benadryl should be taken if someone is reacting to a sting? How much is too much?


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## Haddon (Feb 26, 2009)

I found Primatene Mist for sale online in about 30 seconds you are talking about the asthma inhaler correct. If so what was the dosage your doc told you.


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## Brenda (Nov 23, 2006)

Primateen Mist is available at drugstore.com, but when I tried to order it a few years back, they said my state didn't allow it to shipped in from out of state.
I used to used it for breathing problems (acute bronchial asthma).
Since then I got prescription for Albuterol.


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## NorthALABeeKeep (Nov 10, 2004)

*epi-pen*

Drake are you allergic to bee stings? Why would you want a epi-pen if you are not allergic to bee stings? Might be is kinda like "might be pregnant" isn't it? You are or you or not allergic to stings. I have know people who where not but over time slowly became allergic to bee stings. The only reason for having a epi-pen is if you will go into anaphylactic shock if you get stung. Epi-pens have epinephtine in them. This is very similar to adrenaline hormone, the "fight or flight" hormone. If you are not allergic to bee stings and you give yourself a massive dose of epinephtine it could overload your heart and cause it to go into V-fib. I think the doctor had a valid reason in not giving you a precription. IMHO I might need one doesn't justify the risk to you heart. Liquid benedryl is a good thing to keep with you if you feel you need something just in case. Benedryl will slow down a reaction and give you more time to get help.
Best of luck


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## NasalSponge (Jul 22, 2008)

Told my Doc I was getting back into beekeeping and shazam....duel pack of Epi's!! The reason....Urban bee's.


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## Drake (Sep 21, 2008)

NorthALABeeKeep said:


> Drake are you allergic to bee stings? Why would you want a epi-pen if you are not allergic to bee stings? Might be is kinda like "might be pregnant" isn't it? You are or you or not allergic to stings. I have know people who where not but over time slowly became allergic to bee stings. The only reason for having a epi-pen is if you will go into anaphylactic shock if you get stung. Epi-pens have epinephtine in them. This is very similar to adrenaline hormone, the "fight or flight" hormone. If you are not allergic to bee stings and you give yourself a massive dose of epinephtine it could overload your heart and cause it to go into V-fib. I think the doctor had a valid reason in not giving you a precription. IMHO I might need one doesn't justify the risk to you heart. Liquid benedryl is a good thing to keep with you if you feel you need something just in case. Benedryl will slow down a reaction and give you more time to get help.
> Best of luck


If you get enough bee stings for what ever reason (aka insert some obscene scenario here that could happen), a person that isn't allergic to them could go into prophylactic shock.... Oral benedryl is much slower reaction time (buccal, oral, sublingal, etc) then an IM injection of Epi. 

Does benadryl work? yes it does, but that wasn't the topic of this thread.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

My guess is that an Epi-pen is FAR more dangerous than a bee-sting... I'll take my chances with the bee-sting...


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## NorthALABeeKeep (Nov 10, 2004)

Drake said:


> If you get enough bee stings for what ever reason (aka insert some obscene scenario here that could happen),
> 
> I didn't think about where you live when I wrote my reply.....AHB could be a concern in your area. Luckly they are not in North Alabama yet.


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## JaiPea (Sep 27, 2005)

> I found Primatene Mist for sale online in about 30
> seconds you are talking about the asthma inhaler
> correct.

Thanks for that input, I was quoting what the pharmacist told me last November.

Seems that Wyeth no longer makes it but Armstrong Pharmaceuticals does, and it is CFC-free. The technique of inhaling is apparently different, so will have to buy one and check it out.

> If so what was the dosage your doc told you.

Absorption is immediate as the mist goes straight to the lungs, so he told me to keep inhaling until there was relief, with 20-30 seconds between inhales. The dosage per inhale is very small, only 0.22mg.


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## Brent Bean (Jun 30, 2005)

I’m onboard with dsquared, drop the doctor.

I have heard of beekeepers that develop adverse reactions to beestings after keeping bee for many years. It’s prudent to keep one on hand. My doctor writes me a prescription for one every year. Better to spend a few buck and toss it when it expires than be in some remote location and find out how much breathing is worth to you.
I bet Drake’s doctor would be happy to fill out a death certificate, more profitable than a prescription.


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## Dan Williamson (Apr 6, 2004)

Interesting.... we simply told the dr that we were beekeepers and wanted to have an epi-pen on hand in the event that someone in the family or a visitor was stung and went into shock. She immediately wrote out a prescription.


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## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

"Reaction" to a bee sting can range from mild discomfort to anaphylactic shock. If you look up CDC numbers on anaphylaxis, the number of cases is miniscule per year in the U. S. -- far fewer people die of anaphylaxis annually in the U. S. than die from being struck by lightning. And that includes anaphylactic reactions to all forms of allergens, not just bee stings. "Just in case" is pretty remote.

From what I've read, once the lethal dose of bee stings or bee venom is reached, epinephrine won't do much to help.


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## doc25 (Mar 9, 2007)

I just asked the Doctor for one yesterday, got one for me and one for the wife. They're the twinject model. Insurance covered them as well. He even gave us each 5 refills on the prescription. Doctor is from South Africa so don't know if that helped.


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## Brent Bean (Jun 30, 2005)

On September 9th 1980 I got struck by lighting. I can tell ya the numbers didn’t seem remote to me. Sure the odds are in your favor as long as it’s someone else. I keep an 
epi-pen on hand just in case I get lucky (remote) again.


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## bnatural (Aug 10, 2008)

As I have posted before, if someone really wants one, but the doctor is being prudent and will not write a prescription, the pens are available on-line without a prescription. Not covered by insurance, but if the idea is to be able to respond in an emergency, then the few bucks shouldn't matter.

One point about Good Samaritan laws that I remember from my days of CPR certification. We were told by the instructor that a person was covered by the GS Law, if they acted in good faith to help the person and had reasonable knowledge about what they were doing. For example, if a person had CPR training and tried to help someone at the beach, but that person died, they would be covered, assuming they were acting responsibly (e.g. not drunk). However, if they had not been trained, and the person died, then they could be held liable, if it was determined that their actions were detrimental. This was a long time ago in New Jersey, but that's what we were taught. So, by logical extension, if I was not trained in how to identify true anaphylactic shock, I could be held liable, if I tried to treat someone with a pen, and they were injured as a result. Therefore, I would be very reluctant to inject someone with epinephrine. Of course, that's me thinking rationally and calmly at the keyboard. If it was my 5-year old niece, and if she couldn't breath, I would probably think differently and act accordingly. 

Bill


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## IndianaHoney (Jun 5, 2006)

Ohh boy I'm gonna regret even mentioning this, someone always wants to argue their point because they simply hate cops. But for the sake of others here goes. Just a heads up to those who are intellegent enough to listen. I was a police officer in the not to distant past. If an Epi Pen requires a script, in some states (such as Indiana) the sript must be in your name in order to possess it. Epi is not a schedule drug, but it is a legend drug (anything that requires a script). Again...in some states it is a crime to possess them without a script in your name. I've seen people arrested for possessing a antibiotic without a prescription bottle. I'm just saying check you state laws before possessing another person's script.


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## bamindy (Apr 14, 2009)

I was in the emergency room this year for a sting and the Dr. there still would not give me one for the the next time that I was stung. He said that the bees must have been "dirty" and I had an adverse reaction from the entrance wound, not the sting itself. He prescribed me antibiotics which are still sitting in the medicine cabinet. You will have better luck getting the pen from a large animal veterinarian (horses, pigs). Not that I know anyone who has done that....haha.


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## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

> On September 9th 1980 I got struck by lighting. -Brent Bean


Wow! OK. So what do you do now to avoid being struck again? Keep in mind that your odds of being struck by lightning are still greater than your odds of dying from anaphylactic shock.



> I was in the emergency room this year for a sting. . . -bamindy


Just out of curiosity: 1) Do you still have bees? 2) Are you going through desensitization treatments?

Gotta be really honest here, if I truly felt I was in danger of suffering from anaphylaxis from a bee sting, I wouldn't be keeping bees.


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## knadai (Jun 24, 2007)

I mentioned I was a beek to my doctor and said I wanted an Epipen in case of a visitor going into shock. While writing it he told me that ANYTIME the Epipen was administered to get to an emergency room. He said even if you felt fine after administration the epinepherine could wear off before the venom and start the shock all over again. Also that epinepherine could itself trigger a heart attack.


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## Brent Bean (Jun 30, 2005)

bamindy: Interesting my doctor is located in South Bend IN. and I don’t have trouble getting a prescription for a epi-pen. If the doctor in the emergency room couldn’t tell the difference between an infection and anaphylactic shock I would drive to another hospital.

Kieck: what do I do to avoid getting struck again? Get inside a building or car when I hear thunder, even though I was struck when no thunder was heard, ever hear of lighting out of the blue? 
You still talk about odds, if that’s how you want to justify not spending a few bucks to be prepared for a possible life threating situation I hope the odds stay in your favor.


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## bamindy (Apr 14, 2009)

Kieck/Mr. Bean,
Yeah I still keep bees. I was installing a package this spring and one ended up in my sweatshirt. I didn't get stung until after I was in the house. I was stung on a Saturday and by Monday I didn't have a wrist it was so swollen. I saw the nurse at work and her eyes got really big and told me to get to the ER right away. I was stung right on the bone on my wrist and by Monday it was red and tracking all of the way to my elbow. Other than the swelling, there was no adverse reaction. That was the first time that I have ever had a reaction like that and have been stung many times by many critters. Kind of weird but a few days with a swollen arm won't keep me from my bees. (I do wear long gloves a little more often now.)


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## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

> You still talk about odds, if that’s how you want to justify not spending a few bucks to be prepared for a possible life threating situation I hope the odds stay in your favor. -Brent Bean


Most dangerous thing I do on a regular basis is driving/riding in a car. Far greater risk of dying in a car accident than of being struck by lightning, much less dying or anaphylaxis. Sure, I wear a seatbelt, and sure, the cars I drive have airbags, and, sure, I try to practice defensive driving. Nonetheless, my "safest" option would be to simply stop driving/riding in cars.

Some risk is unavoidable. That's life. Some risks are so remote that we don't consider it worth our while to "be prepared" for every accident. For some other examples, I do not regularly carry pepper spray to defend against bear attacks; I do not wear a helmet every time I go out of the house to protect my skull against the potential knocks I could encounter; I do not have a defibrillator as a possible precaution should I or someone around me have need of one.

If you desire having an autoinjector of epinephrine around "just in case," that must be your decision. Advising others to do the same, just as a possible protection against a remote possibility? I dunno. . .



> I was stung on a Saturday and by Monday I didn't have a wrist it was so swollen. -bamindy


I'm not an MD or in the medical field, but your symptoms are not at all consistent with anaphylaxis. Epinephrine likely wouldn't do anything for the symptoms you describe. And any doctor that would prescribe or administer epinephrine for such symptoms would be suspect, in my mind.

I doubt your symptoms were caused by a "dirty bee," but I'm confident your symptoms were not anaphylaxis and would not have been alleviated by administering epinephrine.


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