# Ideas for homemade bottling tank.



## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

everything floats in honey.


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

You probably want the tap right on the bottom. I wound say 1" minimum for honey. 100f is okay for liquid honey, but too hot for creamed if you have any plans to bottle it.


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## My-smokepole (Apr 14, 2008)

Yes I made my own. The first thing I would do is. Do a reality check if heating element will fit in that arrangement. I used a hot water element. And a hot water thermostat for mine. About $25 for both. I used a old pool filter tank and scrape stainless steel sheet. The sheet was to make a box for the water jacket. Drill and welded in pipe for valve. Go with a Maxant bottling valve. Had a Danant close out brass one. It still drips but not bad. With beer and valves I have about $250.00 in it. Not counting the second valve. The biggest problem I have is boiling off water. Pm me if you want to talk.


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

I don't know if you need three inches off the bottom for syrup. If the syrup is being filtered on the way into the tank, there shouldn't be much left to settle out...if anything at all. If you do have a lot of debris in the syrup, I assume you're filtering it afterwards. If I were building it, I might consider putting the valve closer to the bottom.


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## Joe Hillmann (Apr 27, 2015)

zhiv9 said:


> You probably want the tap right on the bottom. I wound say 1" minimum for honey. 100f is okay for liquid honey, but too hot for creamed if you have any plans to bottle it.


I had no plan of doing creamed honey but it doesn't hurt to plan for it. How warm can it be for that? And does creamed honey require a larger opening to flow through?


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

Joe Hillmann said:


> I had no plan of doing creamed honey but it doesn't hurt to plan for it. How warm can it be for that? And does creamed honey require a larger opening to flow through?


60-75F when adding the seed. We warm it to about 77F to bottle it. I would say that yes you do want a larger opening for creamed honey, but I am not sure how large as we use a Nassenheider Fill Up for bottling our creamed honey.


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## yotebuster1200 (Jul 28, 2013)

Here are some links to some SS stock pots for a decent price. They have some cheaper in aluminium but I wouldnt use it. 


http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000VXHKMC...olid=BWUG3SHUVKXW&coliid=I3KG4QMYEXEI2K&psc=1
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000VXD94A...olid=BWUG3SHUVKXW&coliid=I2OLJ3IGPKIWAY&psc=1

You got me thinking and I think I will be building one as well.


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## Joe Hillmann (Apr 27, 2015)

yotebuster1200 said:


> Here are some links to some SS stock pots for a decent price. They have some cheaper in aluminium but I wouldnt use it.
> 
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000VXHKMC...olid=BWUG3SHUVKXW&coliid=I3KG4QMYEXEI2K&psc=1
> ...



What is the reason you wouldn't go with aluminum. I have been going back and forth on which to go with. Stainless would be better but aluminum is cheaper and lighter weight. Although with aluminum I run the risk of corrosion between dissimilar metals.

I am also going back and forth on size. I am thinking of building a small one now, maybe 16 or 20 quarts. At this point in time that is all the larger I need but in a couple years I'll out grow it. But even then it may come in handy for small batches so wouldn't be a total waste. If I do go with a small one and a large one I will have to buy another aquastat and thermostat which will more than double the cost of the bottler. So as you can see I need to think it through better before I start on it.


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## yotebuster1200 (Jul 28, 2013)

Joe Hillmann said:


> What is the reason you wouldn't go with aluminum. I have been going back and forth on which to go with. Stainless would be better but aluminum is cheaper and lighter weight. Although with aluminum I run the risk of corrosion between dissimilar metals.
> 
> I am also going back and forth on size. I am thinking of building a small one now, maybe 16 or 20 quarts. At this point in time that is all the larger I need but in a couple years I'll out grow it. But even then it may come in handy for small batches so wouldn't be a total waste. If I do go with a small one and a large one I will have to buy another aquastat and thermostat which will more than double the cost of the bottler. So as you can see I need to think it through better before I start on it.


Like you already mentioned aluminium does not get along well with other metals. Because of the acidity of honey it can damage the aluminium over time. There is some good information in this thread.... http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?250061-Aluminium-extractor

I also think SS would be much easier to work with. It is easier to weld and is much easier to solder if you choose to go that route. ( Just make sure you use silver solder with no lead)


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## Joe Hillmann (Apr 27, 2015)

yotebuster1200 said:


> Like you already mentioned aluminium does not get along well with other metals. Because of the acidity of honey it can damage the aluminium over time. There is some good information in this thread.... http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?250061-Aluminium-extractor
> 
> I also think SS would be much easier to work with. It is easier to weld and is much easier to solder if you choose to go that route. ( Just make sure you use silver solder with no lead)



I don't think I would be doing any welding or soldering. I would put it together with bulkhead fittings. I've never soldered stainless before and from what I understand you can't solder stainless to stainless. It has to be stainless to copper. And they could be welded but I would worry about the stock pots being so thin they would warp when being welded even by a professional.

I just looked up aquastat prices. It looks like I can get one for around $120 and a well for the probe for $20-$30. And stainless bulkhead fittings are about $10 each(would need at least 3) A water heater element is about $10- $20 Add in another $50 for wiring, plumbing parts and a stand and $150 for the pots. You could build a 40Qt or 10 gallon bottler for around $350. The only 10 gallon bottler I can find is about $850 but it doesn't have a thermostat so you have keep an eye on it as it is warming up.

At what temp does wax melt? Could a bottler do double duty as a wax melter as well?


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## BadBeeKeeper (Jan 24, 2015)

My-smokepole said:


> Yes I made my own....With *beer* and valves I have about $250.00 in it...


So, um, how much beer did this project involve?


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## Joe Hillmann (Apr 27, 2015)

My-smokepole said:


> Yes I made my own. The first thing I would do is. Do a reality check if heating element will fit in that arrangement. I used a hot water element. And a hot water thermostat for mine. About $25 for both. I used a old pool filter tank and scrape stainless steel sheet. The sheet was to make a box for the water jacket. Drill and welded in pipe for valve. Go with a Maxant bottling valve. Had a Danant close out brass one. It still drips but not bad. With beer and valves I have about $250.00 in it. Not counting the second valve. The biggest problem I have is boiling off water. Pm me if you want to talk.



Can you put up pictures of yours?

A heating element should fit between the pots up to a 60Qt inner pot. Once you get up to 80Qts for the inner pots the next larger pot doesn't get deeper just a larger diameter.


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## yotebuster1200 (Jul 28, 2013)

I would run a hot water element http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0006IX8AA...UTF8&colid=BWUG3SHUVKXW&coliid=I3EZAQ2ISOOSMV

and then I would use this as a controler. It is a whole lot cheaper and should work just fine. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B015E2UFGM...=UTF8&colid=BWUG3SHUVKXW&coliid=IATKZX4KSEQKF

And you can solder SS to SS. The trick is having the correct flux. Harris stay bright liquid flux is what I use. It is tricky but can be done.


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## Joe Hillmann (Apr 27, 2015)

yotebuster1200 said:


> I would run a hot water element http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0006IX8AA...UTF8&colid=BWUG3SHUVKXW&coliid=I3EZAQ2ISOOSMV
> 
> and then I would use this as a controler. It is a whole lot cheaper and should work just fine. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B015E2UFGM...=UTF8&colid=BWUG3SHUVKXW&coliid=IATKZX4KSEQKF
> 
> And you can solder SS to SS. The trick is having the correct flux. Harris stay bright liquid flux is what I use. It is tricky but can be done.


I like that thermostat. It is cheap. Can be used for other applications and has a heat range that will work for creamed honey all the way up to maple syrup


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## yotebuster1200 (Jul 28, 2013)

Joe Hillmann said:


> I like that thermostat. It is cheap. Can be used for other applications and has a heat range that will work for creamed honey all the way up to maple syrup


Just make sure your hot water heater element isnt above 1000 watts or the controller wont work.


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## yotebuster1200 (Jul 28, 2013)

Wax melts at 150ish. Some people do use bottling tanks as wax melters as well. They will change out the honey filling valve to a standard ball valve when running wax and then change it back to the Honey valve when going back to honey.


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## Joe Hillmann (Apr 27, 2015)

Any ideas on where to find an immersion heater with a range of 60 to 180 F for a reasonable price? I can find some cheap ones but their range is 60-90 or more ones with the range I want but they are $350.


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

http://www.mcmaster.com/#immersion-heaters/=11snsr3

or these http://www.mcmaster.com/#immersion-heaters/=11snt5j with http://www.mcmaster.com/#heater-temperature-controls/=11sntkl


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## Joe Hillmann (Apr 27, 2015)

zhiv9 said:


> http://www.mcmaster.com/#immersion-heaters/=11snsr3
> 
> or these http://www.mcmaster.com/#immersion-heaters/=11snt5j with http://www.mcmaster.com/#heater-temperature-controls/=11sntkl



Those are exactly what I am looking for but the price is too high.


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

why not use the heater thermostat combo unit that Kelly sells.


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

Price is decent: https://www.kelleybees.com/Shop/18/Honey-Harvesting/Honey-House-Processing/4381/Immersion-Heaters

There is also this: https://www.amazon.ca/Camco-02103-S...eywords=replacement+heater+for+hot+water+tank and you could pair it with: 

https://www.amazon.ca/AGPtek-All-purpose-Temperature-Controller-STC-1000/dp/B00862G3TQ or https://www.amazon.ca/RANCO-ETC-111000-Digital-Temperature-Control/dp/B0015NV5BE


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## Joe Hillmann (Apr 27, 2015)

After some thinking I may just use a thermostat for an electric water heater. They can be bought for less than $10, can handle heating elements as large as 3500 watt and have a temp range of 90 to 150 degrees. When I want to use it for maple syrup skip over the thermostat and hook the power straight to the element.


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## Joe Hillmann (Apr 27, 2015)

Will something like this work http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/310568175045?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_noapp=true 

It has a range of 86f-230f

If the probe isn't watertight it could be mounted in a box touching the side of the outer pot. I am looking for a method that is cheap, isn't a tangle of wire (looks good wouldn't hurt) and works well.


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## My-smokepole (Apr 14, 2008)

I would say no. Go with the hot water set up a easyer. And cheaper.


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## Joe Hillmann (Apr 27, 2015)

My-smokepole said:


> I would say no. Go with the hot water set up a easyer. And cheaper.


For just honey that is probably the way to go. But I also want to be able to set it at around 185F for maple syrup too.


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## yotebuster1200 (Jul 28, 2013)

Why not just put in a hot water tank heating element. They are $10-30 and reliable? I think I would prefer a digital controller.

I got thinking I don't know if a double boiler is the best bet for boiling maple syrup. Maple syrup should boil at a temperature higher than water (whenever water had a solute dissolved in it it will boil at a hotter temperature) . If you have water in the jacket you will never get the sap hot enough to boil and if you do it will be just a simmer. And you would be boiling off your water from the jacket so fast that you would always be refilling it, which would power the temp. 

Those are my thoughtschedule but I have never boiled maple sap


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## yotebuster1200 (Jul 28, 2013)

Joe Hillmann said:


> For just honey that is probably the way to go. But I also want to be able to set it at around 185F for maple syrup too.


I thought maple syrup had to get up to 219 degrees


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## Duncan151 (Aug 3, 2013)

yotebuster1200 said:


> Why not just put in a hot water tank heating element. They are $10-30 and reliable? I think I would prefer a digital controller.
> 
> I got thinking I don't know if a double boiler is the best bet for boiling maple syrup. Maple syrup should boil at a temperature higher than water (whenever water had a solute dissolved in it it will boil at a hotter temperature) . If you have water in the jacket you will never get the sap hot enough to boil and if you do it will be just a simmer. And you would be boiling off your water from the jacket so fast that you would always be refilling it, which would power the temp.
> 
> Those are my thoughtschedule but I have never boiled maple sap


He is not making syrup with the unit, but using it to bring the finished syrup back up to 185 to 195 degrees for bottling purposes.


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## Joe Hillmann (Apr 27, 2015)

yotebuster1200 said:


> Why not just put in a hot water tank heating element. They are $10-30 and reliable? I think I would prefer a digital controller.
> 
> I got thinking I don't know if a double boiler is the best bet for boiling maple syrup. Maple syrup should boil at a temperature higher than water (whenever water had a solute dissolved in it it will boil at a hotter temperature) . If you have water in the jacket you will never get the sap hot enough to boil and if you do it will be just a simmer. And you would be boiling off your water from the jacket so fast that you would always be refilling it, which would power the temp.
> 
> Those are my thoughtschedule but I have never boiled maple sap


The plan is to use a water heater element I am looking for a thermostat to control it. For the syrup it is just for bottling the finished syrup. You want to bottle it at about 185f into hot jars that way the jars seal. But if it gets above 190f after it has been filtered sugar sand starts to settle out of it.


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## yotebuster1200 (Jul 28, 2013)

Good to know.


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## yotebuster1200 (Jul 28, 2013)

So where do you guys think would be the best place to put the termostate probe?


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## Joe Hillmann (Apr 27, 2015)

yotebuster1200 said:


> So where do you guys think would be the best place to put the termostate probe?


If it is waterproof I would put it in the water. If you put it in the honey the water in the water jacket will boil until the honey is up to temp. So the honey touching the metal of the inner container will be heated up to near the boiling point of water.

I am also thinking of using a 60 qt stock pot for the inner container and a galvanized 25 gallon garbage can for the outer container. The garbage can can be bought for $13 vs. around $100 for a stainless stock pot. No honey should ever touch the outer shell so it shouldn't matter that it isn't stainless.


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## yotebuster1200 (Jul 28, 2013)

Ya I was planning on putting it in the water but I was wondering if it should be top, middle or bottom? Does anyone know where they are located on a Comercial unit?


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## Joe Hillmann (Apr 27, 2015)

I think on the commercial ones (at least the smaller ones) it is part of the heating element.

Since water flows easily it will set up convection currents when the heater is on so it shouldn't matter too much where you put it.

I think it would depend on what type of thermostat you are using. If it is a probe that is meant to be in direct contact with the water I would probably just drape it over the side between the pots and try and get it as close to the bottom as I could. If it is one that is meant to be in a separate well I would put it in the space between the two bottoms because that gives you the most room. If you are going with and electric water heater thermostat I think they measure the temp of the metal so you can just bolt it on anywhere below the water level.


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## yotebuster1200 (Jul 28, 2013)

Good to know. Thanks.


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## yotebuster1200 (Jul 28, 2013)

Well it has been a long time since this idea was thought up but I thought I would share what I ended up doing with the idea. In short, I took 2 Ss stock pots, one is 44 quarts and I think the other was 62. I cut out the lid of the 62 quart pot so the 44 quart pot would nest in the lid of the 62 quart one. I then added a 1000 watt heating element, a 1 inch SS coupler NPT, a thermo well, a sight glass. I added a digital thermometer to control the hot water heater element. I used silver solder to put everything together. I also cut the threads off a 1" SS ball valve to use as a no (low) drip valve.

I haven't added everything up but I think I have just under $400 in the project. Not to bad for a 10 gallon bottling tank!







Here are most of the parts before starting the project







Cutting the hole in the big lid.


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## yotebuster1200 (Jul 28, 2013)

I have no idea how to rotate the pictutes. Sorry.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

yotebuster1200 said:


> Ya I was planning on putting it in the water but I was wondering if it should be top, middle or bottom? Does anyone know where they are located on a Comercial unit?


Guess I should have read all of the Posts. Looks good. Congratulations.


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## My-smokepole (Apr 14, 2008)

Nice job. It looks a whole lot better than mine. You mite look at getting a normal bottling valve. I have a old Danant valve that is ok. But like my Maxant one more.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Not as pretty, but darn cheap........

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?305990-Bottling-Tank-using-the-Maxant-No-Drip-Valve


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## yotebuster1200 (Jul 28, 2013)

My-smokepole said:


> Nice job. It looks a whole lot better than mine. You mite look at getting a normal bottling valve. I have a old Danant valve that is ok. But like my Maxant one more.


Ya I hope to get one (maybe after next season). When I originally put this thing together a week or so ago I had a male thread sticking out of the bottom of the tank to attach the valve to. After a closer look at the maxant no drip valve I realized the valve has a male thread on it so I would need to have a female thread on the tank. I pulled out the male treaded pipe and changed it out with a female coupling so I would be able to add the maxant valve in the future. I have only heard good things about those valves... except the price (a little spendy) If they would sell me one for closer to 100 or 125 I would have ordered one from them from the get go. If you buy a tank from them I guess they will sell you a valve for around 100 bucks. 180 if you buy the valve alone.


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## yotebuster1200 (Jul 28, 2013)

snl said:


> Not as pretty, but darn cheap........
> 
> http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?305990-Bottling-Tank-using-the-Maxant-No-Drip-Valve


Before I had the plan to build the unit I built I was planing on doing something very similar to what you did. The idea of being able to heat my honey in the bottling tank what appealing enough that I thought it would be worth the extra price and time to built the unit I made. Plus I like to tinker. I think it came out ok.


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