# sainfoin saga



## kwest

My dad and I just planted about 1-2 acers of sanfoin about 2 weeks ago. It is coming up nicely. I am really excited to see what it does for honey. We have 70 acers and 40 of it is alfalfa the other 30 or so is pasture with tons of clover in it and now with this sanfoin it should be great for the bees. We just worked up the field well with the tractor and disc and broadcast the sanfoin then ran the disc and harrow over it lightly. If you seed the sanfoin it is reccomended that you put innoculate on it first. good luck let me know how yours does. I'll post about mine once its blooming.


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## beebiker

hi kwest
i would be interested to know if you went with the shoshone sainfoin that was released in 2006 or one of the older breeds, here is a link to the shoshone type
http://www.uwyo.edu/bighorncropspt/Shoshonereleasewpic.pdf

i talked with the college extension office up the street from where i live and he indicated that the shoshone seed need not be innoculated, but it isn't hampered if you do. he is really kinda excited to see how it turns out with little to no other necture sources being close by and competing for attention. im trying it late so it will bloom after the alph alpha and choke cherries are done to see what the girls intrest in it will be :lookout:

beebiker


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## summer1052

I am really interested in trying this here in south Texas as a winter crop. I know it is way too hot in the summer for it.

But it is really hard to find seed sources online for it. I did find some alfalfa, but not the sainfoin.

Any ideas on where to order it?

Thanks,
Summer


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## beebiker

hi summer
these folks here should be able to help. if i remeber right their are links on the page that will get you more info as well. i was just thinking about what i had mentioned earlier to kwest about the inoculation, i remebered here said not needed IN THIS AREA :doh:. you might ask about your soil conditions and see if it will be needed there in texas.

let us know how you do with this stuff in your area and ill let the guys at the college know what we are finding.

http://www.sainfoinseed.com/

zbiker


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## JOHNYOGA2

Their website doesn't say anything about price. Any idea?


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## beebiker

i called them this morning and the lady i needed to talk to was out sick , she will give me a call tomorow with the info.
im unsure if they have just a set price per pound of if you get a price per weight break, ill be sure to ask if you want a lot.
if you need just a little for the yard you may want me to contact the college extension office instead, how much do you think you want ??

zbiker


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## JOHNYOGA2

My thought is that my property is too wet, because the spot I'm interested in trying it out on is the lowest land I have. I was thinking about a 50' by 50' test plot which would probably be no more than 5 pounds.


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## beebiker

ok, ill see what she has to say, from everything i have been able to read sainfoin is drout resistant becouse it has such deep taproots, if your planting in a " wet spot" on your property you might get a better result in the heat of the summer vs the winter :scratch: having never raised sainfoin im unsure.
ill try to remember to ask her if it is already inoculated like alph alpha or if you will need to have that done would you like me to have her contact you directly with the info ??

beebiker


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## JOHNYOGA2

I've got an email into the Mt Carmel Youth Ranch now. But yes, I am interested. The ground is about six inches of good loam then clay, and the water flows to this area in the spring and after heavy rains. I'm thinking that if I can get it established now, it might have a chance, but it's a risk. The idea of a deep tap rooted nitrogen fixing perrennial is very attractive, even if it wasn't something the girls liked. Did check with my local speciality seed store and they don't carry it. I have innoculant for dutch clover, but don't know whether that is the same innoculant they use.


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## beebiker

hi johny
i dont know if you had heard back from them yet but she just gave me a call so i asked her how much for 5 lbs, she indicated they dont sell just 5 lb bags they sell 50 lb bags , but she would be happy to gather five ponds up for an additional fee
and get this, the are asking 3.00 per for a 50# bag :doh: i had no idea it was so pricey inch:
you may do better by planting clover at those prices .............

beebiker


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## James R

I'm pretty sure all Alfalfa/Clover inoculates are the same. I have always felt that you should always try to improve the soil whenever you can. Check out Welter Seed & Honey Co. I'm not sure they are a source for Sanfoin or not but they are a great source for alfafa, clover, and pasture mix. Always very helpful with any questions I have. Their website is not much but if you give them a call they are very helpful and will send you a catalog. I have not heard of this Sanfoin. Is it early or late bloom? I assume good nectar flow?

www.WelterSeed.com

James R


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## beebiker

hi james
it's my understanding that sainfoin blooms slightly earlier than alphalpha, and carries the bloom a little longer. i have also heard that it produces an off colored wax, not the new white wax color we can get , more of a deep gold color, but the honey is supposed to be really good. from all ive read it's quite a necture producer, also one of their big claims is you cant founder a horse or bloat your cows on it, even in full bloom.
mind you at this point its all hear say till i see for myself :no:

beebiker


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## lupester

So has anyone tried growing this in Texas?


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## Shawn

I have been pollinating Sainfoin seed fields in Montana for the past 4 years. One of the largest sainfoin seed suppliers in Montana Seeds in Conrad, Montana Don is the owner's name. The honey is water white with a light floral taste. If you go to my wife's website montanabeeline.com you can see sainfoin in bloom with hives.
Regarding planting you DO NEED inocluant for seed. I have personally planted this crop around 100 acres. In Whitehall there is a large pivot on the White Rock Ranch. Sainfoin is a heavy nectar producing plant. Bees can work the bloom in 50 degree temperatures and up. This is a great plant!!! 
Please contact Don at Montana Seeds if you are interested in producing this crop, he trully is an expert. 

Shawn


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## Shawn

I would suggestd contact the Unversity of New Mexico, I read that they had developed a variety within the last couple of years suite for the Southern states. If you can't find info there, contact Don at Montana Seeds in Conrad, Montana.

Shawn


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## beebiker

here is some info from the wyo college showing the work done in the montana end of their joint sainfoin venture
http://www.uwyo.edu/bighorncropspt/Shoshone_Sainfoin.pdf
thanks on the heads up with the color of the honey shawn, if it is as drouth resistant a plant as they say then i dont see why it wouldn't do well in most all the southern states. if they grow alphalpha in your area in texas then this sainfoin should be a snap.

beebiker


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## kwest

i planted remont sainfoin. it is up to 12 inches and i hope it will bloom yet this year. hopefully in about 3 or 4 weeks right after the second cutting alfalfa. have any of you planted any? how is it doing?


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## beebiker

hi kwest
well i planted the batch i got from the college, seemed to sprout great and really took off, then unfortunitly i got busy doing other projects and neglected my watering schedule :doh:
all in all it's still doing well, it's up about 5 to 8 inches everywhere. due to my neglect thou i would be surprised to see any blooms this year, should do great next spring thou, time will tell.

beebiker


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## rweakley

BUMP... Can we get an update from any of these folks that planted sainfoin?

ROd


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## summer1052

I planted it for a winter crop, since it likes cool weather, and in south TX, that means Nov 1- Mar 1.

Some of it came up okay, and what did had a few flowers. But I would say it was not a success.

HOWEVER, I also firmly believe that the problem *I* encountered was a serious drought. I suspect if we had been blessed with rain and we had none, zip, zero, nada, not a single drop -- it might have come up better. I don't know. Of course, the whole thing was a gamble anyway, sainfoin being totally foreign to this corner of the world.

At this time, (Spring 2012) I do not have plans to try it anytime soon. Perhaps for the Winter of 2012-2013? Assuming the world doesn't end when the Mayan calendar does in Dec. . . . 

*Summer*


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## beebiker

summer1052 said:


> Some of it came up okay, and what did had a few flowers. But I would say it was not a success.
> 
> i had some success, but their simply was not the volume of blooms to draw much attention for the girls. you know they like it when there are LOTS of blossoms to work. if i had a patch of a few acres i think it would have been much better.
> 
> beebiker


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## spieker

I live in Virginia and planted Sainfoin 2 years ago. It came up fine. However, we had a dry summer and it only grew to about 4 to 6 inches. Last year, none of it came up. Disappointed.


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## Joseph Clemens

spieker, 
Aren't your soils in Virginia basically acidic? 

I quote from: http://www1.foragebeef.ca/$foragebeef/frgebeef.nsf/all/aafc49

"Sainfoin yields best on deep, well-drained soils that have good moisture-holding capacity and are high in lime."


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## spieker

Yes, my soil is acidic. I spread lime all over the area where I planted the sainfoin. I got the PH up to 6.5 - 7.0 before planting it. It is possible that the lime leached out.


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## Joseph Clemens

Maybe periodic amendment with lime could help keep it going. I used to live in Waynesboro.


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