# Queen rearing schedule records and checklists



## frustrateddrone (Jan 31, 2015)

Google Calendar works great I would imagine. Daily reminders pop up daily for me at 7AM and I can view the calendar at a click of a button. No spreadsheet needed.


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Good idea
I'll look into that for sure 
Easy to enter a lot of info, reminders , updates are quick, and also has calendar option


----------



## JSL (Sep 22, 2007)

I keep the info to a minimum and only record the critical dates. For me that is the emergence date and the queen mother, but it can be whatever is critical to you. The less information the better for me in terms of keeping the system moving. Hopefully the formatting stays below, but I like a simple spreadsheet with columns to work down.

Graft Date - Queen Mother - Emergence Date


----------



## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

JSL said:


> Graft Date - Queen Mother - Emergence Date


Exactly the information I keep in my grafting notes. I utilize the free software Evernote, which is on my home computer and cell phone so I always have access to the info.


----------



## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

I have so much going on in my queen rearing life, that keeping track of the day's work is sometimes a bit much. I'm setting up new cell builders every 4 days, but on all other days of the week I have other queen rearing jobs. Get too busy, with a million things to do, and I just might forget to add a clean brood comb to the breeder queen. Ooops! So I follow a schedule that Webster showed me. I've changed it a bit, but it's a great way to remind me what day it is. No, not day of the week, but what day in the queen rearing schedule.

Starting on the first day of the schedule...for me, it's May 10...number each day 1 through 8, 1-8, 1-8, etc until the end of cell building. Each number (day) is a different task. All day 1's are cell builder setup. 2's are off. 3's are grafting. 4's are queen catch. 5's are cell harvest. 6's are comb in breeder. 7's are off. 8's are re-unite cell builders. So, with this plan, I'm harvesting queens every 8 days once the schedule gets going full steam. That's not often enough for me, so I'm running two 8 day schedules at once, 4 days apart. So, day 1 is the same as day 5. We harvest the cells and re-cell the mating nucs where we caught queens the day before, and then set up four more cell builders. The double schedule meshes well for me. Note, grafting day is 3, queen catching is 4, and cells ready 5. One after the other. Those 2 days off? Day two is day 6 and day 7 is day 3. Not much of a break for me. Always something to do for about 2.5 months. 

Once we have queens, about the middle of June, 60 from each catch of 160 go to making nucs. That's what my crew does when I have days 5-1, 6-2, and 7-3 to do. Then it's day 4 again. We catch the queens and the following day the crew makes more nucs or requeens colonies or whatever. I sell the extras.

Nothing I could ever keep together in my head without a good schedule. It gets so intense that when someone askes me what day it is I say "3, or 5". They stare at me with a strange look.


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Michael that kind of thinking is exactly what I'm looking for. Tomorrow I'm going to set that into my schedule and see how things match up.
Numbering work to days is an awesome approach,


----------



## ApricotApiaries (Sep 21, 2014)

Thanks Michael Palmer for that insight. We have been trying to figure out our schedule as well. I like the 8 day schedule you pointed out. And easy enough to double it like you do. Keeps things organized. 
For what its worth, and this might help you out as well Ian, last year my wife put together a kind of queen rearing sliderule. She used xcell to make a calendar that was vertically oriented. And strips of paper with days numbered 0 for graft, 11 for cell transfer, and 32 for catch. On whatever day we grafted, we would tape another strip to the sliderule and easily know what day things are happening. I found the sliderule really helpful, especially if grafting gets off schedule for some reason or another. This would be really easy to explain with a picture, but I don't know that we have any. I could set it up and take a picture, but I am in CA for the next couple weeks. 
It worked really well until my son got big enough to start pulling the strips, and the calendar off the wall.


----------



## aran (May 20, 2015)

Michael Palmer perhaps my brain is still slow to wake up since its early yet but am i reading correctly that you make 60 new nucs with new queens twice in an 8 day cycle right through the summer?????

Holy crapola man thats a HUGE number!!!!!


----------



## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Yep, Yuuuge.  Now you know why I don't always answer my phone and people get Pi**ed at me 'cause I don't return their emails. I get home for a late supper, and go to bed. Eventually I get caught up. Lucky to have good help that helps get the job done.


----------



## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Interesting Michael and yes, I will concur. Unfortunately, because 7 is a prime number, during the cell season the days have only numbers not names.


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Michael Palmer said:


> Nothing I could ever keep together in my head without a good schedule. .


Yes me too and thanks again for sharing. 

It's nice having methods that I can record simply on the white board thst represent sometimes elaborate processes. Once the crew is trained, simple direction better conveys the marching orders and I find less confusion, especially if I stray the day off the normal beaten path 

AA, please post a pic of your slide ruler when you get a chance. That is also another thought in my head I was hoping someone would mention


----------



## JSL (Sep 22, 2007)

Along the lines of Mike's system, some operations just designate days of the week for jobs, then work backwards. Say if you want to catch on 18 days, work the system backwards to determine which days of the week are graft days. For some it just gets to be every day is a graft day so that cells are not the limiting factor. Extra cells are sold or tossed.


----------



## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Ian said:


> ....especially if I stray the day off the normal beaten path


That's the truth. Even with a schedule I sometimes forget what day it is. Heck, half the time I don't know where I am or what I had for breakfast. 

Luck enough to have an employee who keeps me on track. She usually asks me what day it is and if I get it wrong she tells me what I'm supposed to do today. I'm thinking about one beautiful queen and what her daughters might do, and another keeps me on schedule.


----------



## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Wonder how a QCs incubator play into this queen rearing equation?


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

At my day 9 after graft


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Michael Palmer, Jim Lyon and or Joe Latshaw, do you track each generation and track specific breeding queen lines in your operation? 
Or do you take a more generalized approach


----------



## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

I only raise a handfull of queens for my personal use So I just use this web page to track what I should be doing or looking for each hive, you can print them right off 

http://www.thebeeyard.org/queen-rearing-calendar/


----------



## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Ian said:


> Michael Palmer, Jim Lyon and or Joe Latshaw, do you track each generation and track specific breeding queen lines in your operation?
> Or do you take a more generalized approach


I'm not as scientific or selective as those two. Our selection process amounts to marking the 2 or 3 best producing hives in each location and selecting from those the following spring about the best 12 hives in terms of size, health, gentleness and laying pattern. Then we usually add in a couple of tf breeders. A few years I did ether rolls but found at that time of year when hives are growing so quickly that its a target rich environment for phoretic mites looking for open larvae and they were pretty hard to find. Now I just do a few ether rolls to ascertain what the general item levels might be.


----------



## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Ian said:


> Michael Palmer, Jim Lyon and or Joe Latshaw, do you track each generation and track specific breeding queen lines in your operation?
> Or do you take a more generalized approach


I'm not as scientific or selective as those two. Our selection process amounts to marking the 2 or 3 best producing hives in each location and selecting from those the following spring about the best 12 hives in terms of size, health, gentleness and laying pattern. Then we usually add in a couple of tf breeders. A few years I did ether rolls but found at that time of year when hives are growing so quickly that its a target rich environment for phoretic mites looking for open larvae and they were pretty hard to find. Now I just do a few ether rolls to ascertain what the general item levels might be.


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Jim 
Strictly based on performance? Or have those selected colonies been followed through the season narrowing down on specific traits.?
Do you saturate breeder genetics with drone brood colonies?


----------



## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Ian said:


> Jim
> Strictly based on performance? Or have those selected colonies been followed through the season narrowing down on specific traits.?
> Do you saturate breeder genetics with drone brood colonies?


My first selection is strictly performance and its done by the honey haulers. The final selection is based on other traits. Many of the best producing hives are pretty small hives the following spring and some have even died. I assume that to be because of higher populations resulting in higher mite loads that we weren't able to get down quickly enough the following fall. So a top producer that maintained a good hive population through the winter (a definite plus for almond pollination) and looks healthy, seems gentle and has a queen laying a nice pattern is what we are looking for. No racial stereotypes in our selection except that yellower bees tend to carry larger populations through the winter so I always like to find a couple breeders that produce a darker bee in the belief that I might keep a little more genetic diversity in our operation but they can be hard to find some years.


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

When you graft, are you pulling larvae from all the breeder colonies on rotation generally or do you tract those specific queen mother's daughters performance?


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

It may sound like the same question asked three times in a row but your shedding different light with each answer so far ..lol


----------



## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Ian said:


> When you graft, are you pulling larvae from all the breeder colonies on rotation generally or do you tract those specific queen mother's daughters performance?


Of all the things we do rotational grafting is something I just don't feel real good about. We confine some of our breeders in small nucs to make it easier to force the queen to lay on a given frame and that works great but it also results in using only maybe 2 to 3 breeders per day on a 4 to 5 day rotation. You've no doubt done it enough to know how it goes, once you get a nice frame to graft on its hard to stop. Perhaps others have figured good ways of using more breeders per day. The result is that we might put 2 to 300 cells in a given nuc yard that often came from no more than 3 breeders. Perhaps thats not ideal but its what we usually end up with, lots of sisters or half sisters in the same yard.
We also use a different cup color if we are grafting from a tf queen or one that we want to single out for some reason, then we might mark those on check back to monitor through the year.


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Do you drop an empty frame into the breeder queen colony 3 days or 4 days before you graft so from it. Is three days enough time to get her on it?


----------



## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

Micheal shared his schedule a couple of years ago and I set down and actually wrote a line by line schedule of how it would work. I am not sure what happened to it now. I have also used J.C. Bees calendar generator that can be downloaded here.
http://honeycomb-hill-beekeeping.blogspot.com/2015/02/queen-rearing-calendar.html
Not the same schedule as Michael's though. I print a schedule for each grafting from each queen.


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

That schedule shows putting the frame into the breeder 5 days in advance. What would the most common practice be?


----------



## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Ian said:


> That schedule shows putting the frame into the breeder 5 days in advance. What would the most common practice be?


You will get some usable graft on the 4th day IF the frame had an additional day in a hive for it to be properly cleaned and prepped.


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Planning it 4 days prior graft should ensure she gets on there. 
Last year we simply dug into our breeders to find our graftable larvae. It takes more time than I guy would expect !


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

I'm going to make up a few of these


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

I helps to sit and listen in on a lecture to fully understand what is trying to be conveyed through text. Great presentations Michael Palmer, your cell builders make mine look like nucs. Brood factories and cell building brood boost is something I'm going to include into my routine... to a point, builders that looked like yours would need 5 supers overhead during our June clover flows ! Lol


----------



## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

Ian said:


> Do you drop an empty frame into the breeder queen colony 3 days or 4 days before you graft so from it. Is three days enough time to get her on it?


You need to read 'Beekeeping in Buckfast Abby', there is a little tidbit hidden in that book that will make the light bulb go 'click' for you. Brother Adam would warm the frames to hive temperature prior to placing them in a breeder colony. When he was ready to start the process, the warmed frame goes in the breeder hive. Once in, they checked it twice a day (every 12 hours) for eggs. They made a note of when they saw eggs on the check, and scheduled the graft based on when they saw the first eggs. The comment in that spot was, if the frame was not properly warmed in advance, it would take a day or two longer for the queen to lay eggs in that frame.


----------



## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Ian said:


> Brood factories and cell building brood boost is something I'm going to include into my routine... to a point, builders that looked like yours would need 5 supers overhead during our June clover flows ! Lol


Mine do need a bit of extra room.


----------



## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Nice to meet you Ian. Tried to find you later for a chat, but you must have left.


----------



## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

Michael Palmer said:


> Nice to meet you Ian. Tried to find you later for a chat, but you must have left.


I'm hoping we get the chance to sit down over a meal in Kamloops.


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Michael Palmer said:


> Nice to meet you Ian. Tried to find you later for a chat, but you must have left.


I made sure to meet you but you were way to overwhelmed with beekeeper chat. We appreciate your time Michael, your contribution to the conversation was awesome. Technical and study is important but good old solid beekeeper basic practice was refreshing.
Beekeepers are starved for perspective.


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Are those cell builders getting set up the morning of graft day or 2 days prior ?


----------



## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Initial setup 10 days before graft. Final setup morning of grafting day.


----------



## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

Michael Palmer said:


> Initial setup 10 days before graft. Final setup morning of grafting day.


Meaning that grafting day is the 11th day, just to make it clear....Right MP?


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

I like the set up strategy of adding sealed brood for continual colony boost.


----------



## JoshW (Feb 5, 2013)

I too was able to take much away from Michael's talk in Winnipeg. I am set up to run 40 mating nucs this summer. Actually I had them last summer but but ran low on time (chickened out), and purchased locally. This year it is just not in the budget, so I will be forced into making my own. I have played around with grafting, but I believe the techniques outlined to ensure getting a good, correctly aged graft, will go a long way to improve my acceptance consistency. Thanks for taking the time to share, and know that it is appreciated.


----------



## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

kilocharlie said:


> Meaning that grafting day is the 11th day, just to make it clear....Right MP?


Right KC.


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Hey JoshW, I have 2 neighbours which I use as my fall back plan if disaster happens in the builders. Used them twice last year. Few bucks per cell. 
I plan to have extra cells most weeks incase you find yourself short


----------



## WesternWilson (Jul 18, 2012)

Michael, looking forward to your presentation in Kamloops, BC. Hoping you will take a bit of time to discuss the breeding yard schedule : )

Janet


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

So I'm reviewing notes and bringing a few ideas together into my plans. At our MBA convention held lately during one of Michael Palmer's lectures he (you) brought up a slide which showed a chart to record queen characteristics. 
I took a picture of the slide but I must have shaky hands, it's all blurry. I remember thinking I could use your chart as a model to help bring a few of my ideas together to record and chart. 
It's a version of my hive front laminated pin recording system, just this is more specific to breeding characteristics. 

If you have a pic of that chart handy Michael, would you mind sharing it again? 

I remember you had an interestingly simple way of measuring colony temperament and a way you simply recorded the variation of Varroa suppression


----------



## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)




----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Perfect perfect perfect 
Thx again


----------



## RBRamsey (Mar 1, 2015)

Michael and all,

I want to make sure I am understanding the 8-day system. 

Is this correct? As an example, I put together 2 batches that follow each other starting today:
Batch-A and Batch-B


#Days Date 8day task
1	03/02/17	1	A-Cell Builder Setup
2	03/03/17	2	
3	03/04/17	3	
4	03/05/17	4	
5	03/06/17	5	
6	03/07/17	6	A-Comb in Breeder
7	03/08/17	7	
8	03/09/17	8	
9	03/10/17	1	
10	03/11/17	2	
11	03/12/17	3	A-Grafting
12	03/13/17	4	
13	03/14/17	5	
14	03/15/17	6	
15	03/16/17	7	
16	03/17/17	8	A-Re-unite Cell Builders
17	03/18/17	1	B-Cell Builder Setup
18	03/19/17	2	
19	03/20/17	3	
20	03/21/17	4	
21	03/22/17	5	A-Cell Harvest
22	03/23/17	6	B-Comb in Breeder
23	03/24/17	7	
24	03/25/17	8	
25	03/26/17	1	
26	03/27/17	2	
27	03/28/17	3	B-Grafting
28	03/29/17	4	
29	03/30/17	5	
30	03/31/17	6	
31	04/01/17	7	
32	04/02/17	8 B-Re-unite Cell Builders	
33	04/03/17	1	
34	04/04/17	2	
35	04/05/17	3	
36	04/06/17	4	A-Queen Catch
37	04/07/17	5	B-Cell Harvest
38	04/08/17	6	
39	04/09/17	7	
40	04/10/17	8	
41	04/11/17	1	
42	04/12/17	2	
43	04/13/17	3	
44	04/14/17	4	
45	04/15/17	5	
46	04/16/17	6	
47	04/17/17	7	
48	04/18/17	8	
49	04/19/17	1	
50	04/20/17	2	
51	04/21/17	3	
52	04/22/17	4	B-Queen Catch


----------



## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

The 8 day schedule is for raising a continuous supply of queens during the summer. I've filled in below what it might look like if you were to run the schedule. Run the schedule as long as needed or practical. Eventually no more day 1. Then the last graft and the last cells, and then the last catch.

Because I want queens more often than every 8 days, I'm running two schedules, 4 days apart. To se what that's like, re-start schedule on first day 5, with a day 1. So, day 1 and 5 are the same day, etc.




RBRamsey said:


> Michael and all,
> 
> 
> I want to make sure I am understanding the 8-day system.
> ...


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

The way beekeepers schedule work Fascinates me. Being able to schedule work into programs is how we are able to bring help In to do the work. We build and execute programs through all aspects of our cattle and grain farm Aswell, work becomes routine. 

I've sat on a 7 day rearing program. It's not as efficient with the cell builders but allows caging 18 days after hatch which keeps the mini nucs staged with a queen at all times . Brings about a nice rhythm.


----------



## RBRamsey (Mar 1, 2015)

Michael Palmer said:


> The 8 day schedule is for raising a continuous supply of queens during the summer. I've filled in below what it might look like if you were to run the schedule. Run the schedule as long as needed or practical. Eventually no more day 1. Then the last graft and the last cells, and then the last catch.
> 
> Because I want queens more often than every 8 days, I'm running two schedules, 4 days apart. To see what that's like, re-start schedule on first day 5, with a day 1. So, day 1 and 5 are the same day, etc.



Great, I understand. I adjusted the interval between groups because I was planning on using 1 set of mating nukes. This slows everything down considerably compared to your schedule were you are running 4 sets of mating nukes. You catch queens every 4 days, and I will catch queens every 16 days. 

Thanks for the information. By starting with your system I can scale it easily as I need to without learning a new system or adjusting an existing system.


----------



## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

The way beekeepers schedule work Confuses me! Until I do a few round to see the relationship with on
paper concept I will never fully grasp this idea. I'm way behind on the queen rearing department. Going to catch up
someday. No staging up for now.


----------



## WesternWilson (Jul 18, 2012)

beepro said:


> The way beekeepers schedule work Confuses me!


It is not the beekeepers driving the complexity of scheduling queen rearing...but the bees. Now if we could get the world to run on a 16 day calendar, that would help a LOT!


----------



## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Hmmm. You mean the rest of the world doesn't? Gosh, where have I been. When someone asks me, in mid-summer what day it is, I'm likely to say, "5", rather than the day of the week. I told you I got wrapped up in the schedule.


----------

