# Paint/Stain What do you use/How long is it lasting?



## OneEyedRooster (Nov 10, 2012)

Got a bunch of new equipment (ponderosa pine from Kelleys) for the spring and want to get opinions on what you use and more important, how long it lasts. 

Thanks


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

You will get lots of opinions on this one but as far as I am concerned this stuff is the "gold standard". It's not cheap in any way. The first time I tried it I was cured from ever buying budget barn paint again.
http://www.homedepot.com/Paint-Exte...Id=10053&langId=-1&storeId=10051#.UQaFTGt5mSM


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## Ranger Cody (Jan 21, 2012)

Eco Wood Treatment, available from Walter T. Kelley or from Home Depot. Creates a beautiful weathered look on wood, and you don't have to worry about re-applying.


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## SueBeeTN (Mar 2, 2012)

I also recommend the Eco Wood Treatment from Walter T. Kelley. I have attached a picture of our hive. This was in July about 4 months after we applied the treatment. According to Walter T. Kelley, you never have to reapply.


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## westernbeekeeper (May 2, 2012)

SueBeeTN, it looks great, I'll have to try some of that.


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## westernbeekeeper (May 2, 2012)

Ranger Cody said:


> Eco Wood Treatment...from Home Depot.


Is HD cheaper than Kelley?


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## Jackie Burba (Aug 21, 2012)

I haven't tried the Eco Wood but as far as paint goes I second the Home Depot Behr paint no comparison. I've tried Lowe's top notch and it's like night and day. Behr is a little pricey but for ease of application and durability it's head and shoulders above the rest.


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## SueBeeTN (Mar 2, 2012)

westernbeekeeper said:


> Is HD cheaper than Kelley?


Walter T. Kelley is currently $16.00 for a box that makes 1 GL, Home Depot is $16.49 for the same and Amazon is currently the highest at $19.95. Of course if you pick it up at Home Depot you would not have any shipping charge plus if you have a lot of hives, they have a 5 Gallon treatment for $74.49. Hope this helps!


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## Ranger Cody (Jan 21, 2012)

I think Kelley is actually cheaper if you buy it by the gal. Home Depot is if you want 5 gal. I'd recommend getting 1 gal to start with. It makes plenty. I wouldn't be shocked if you could treat 40 to 50+ boxes with 1 gal. I recommend applying to the exterior of boxes before assembly. Some people dip em, I just lay them out flat on my tailgate and apply with a foam brush. You'll think you got gypped at first, because nothing happens, but after getting rained on 1 time it transitions nicely to the color SueBeeTN posted.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

We foud semi-gloss latex was the easiest to use and the longest lasting until a few years ago someone got sent for paint and came back with 5 gallons of stain. clean up was a hassel but clearly it sunk into the wood and after 4 years afield we are using stain for all new woodwork. A couple of things to consider with paint is color. Darker colored paints were shown to increase hive temps and have a negative impact on varroa and also helped in keeping hives hidden in outyards or suburban areas where the sight of bright white beehives might bring unwanted attention.


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

jim lyon said:


> You will get lots of opinions on this one but as far as I am concerned this stuff is the "gold standard". It's not cheap in any way. The first time I tried it I was cured from ever buying budget barn paint again.
> http://www.homedepot.com/Paint-Exte...Id=10053&langId=-1&storeId=10051#.UQaFTGt5mSM


There is always at least 5 cans of that on the mis-tint shelf of our local HD.
I just got 3 cans for $7.00 ea and it really is a easy to use durable paint.


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## LeonardS (Mar 13, 2012)

Are you priming before using the Behr exterior paint or do you apply it directly to the bare wood? How many coats do you apply?


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

LeonardS said:


> Are you priming before using the Behr exterior paint or do you apply it directly to the bare wood? How many coats do you apply?


It is self priming. You could save a little money by going to some type of dedicated primer like Zinsser or the like if you would choose. Two well applied coats will usually do the trick.


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## LeonardS (Mar 13, 2012)

I have been putting Titebond III on all end grain, knots and nail holes. Then I apply two coats of Zinsser and then two coats of Menards exterior (don't remember the brand) white, semi-gloss latex. I don't have enough history to know how it will work. About 3 weeks ago I tried burning the grain of some hives and applied 3 coats of marine varnish. They look much nicer than the white painted ones, but we will see how they last.


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## OneEyedRooster (Nov 10, 2012)

Thanks for all the input. I wonder how long the Eco wood treatment would last? Sure looks nice and would be less labor in applying it than paint. Those of you painting how many years are you getting before having to redo?


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## jdmidwest (Jul 9, 2012)

Is the Eco product a paint or a dip? I was under the impression from Kelley's description that it is a powder that you mix with water and dip.


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## westernbeekeeper (May 2, 2012)

As far as paint, I use Valspar 2-in-1 primer + paint for finishing my hives.


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## seamuswildflower (Apr 2, 2011)

mis tints are 5 bucks a gallon at shirwin williams and all those paints and stains are there


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## Ranger Cody (Jan 21, 2012)

jdmidwest said:


> Is the Eco product a paint or a dip? I was under the impression from Kelley's description that it is a powder that you mix with water and dip.


It is a powder that you mix, but you do not have to dip boxes. Before assembling new equipment I get a foam brush and apply to the outside and let dry. I don't like to dip because I want to leave the inside natural. But on another thread here on Beesource someone contacted the company and they said that it would be safe for the bees if the wood treatment was applied to the inside of the hive. I can't vouch for how long it will work because I've only had mine on my boxes for a couple of seasons, but so far there is no deterioration. I prefer the look compared to painted boxes, and as was mentioned earlier it is much less labor intensive.


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## NeonBee (Apr 21, 2010)

Ahhh the age old question, to paint, stain, etc. This is what we do and it works for us.

We build our own boxes out of pine and brand every panel before assembly using the drill press method. During assembly we use Titebond III on the joints and fasten them using 7/16x1.5" galvanized staples via a Senco pneumatic stapler. Once the glue dries we prepare a batch of Eco Treatment. It comes in a powder form and we make 5-10 gallons at a shot using distilled water. The reason for the distilled water is that it will store in solution longer without worry, per the manufacturer. In addition, for each gallon of mix we add about 5 ounces (a little more than 1/2 a cup) of water based dye, which can be purchased at your local paint or big box store. The reason for the dye is to further distinguish our equipment even though it is branded. We use browns and greens to blend in with the surroundings and to warrant a clean look. Eco is poured into a large pan and each super is rotated through the solution. The interior and the sides all get coated. We treat all equipment the same. Yes it uses a lot of eco treatment, but compare the product cost to the labor cost of paining equipment. Plus the eco allows for the branding to stand out. 

The average lifespan of a super, in our opinion is 10 years. We stopped dealing with paint for several reasons, but the main reason being that one day a large chip of oil based paint lodged itself under a finger nail. From that point on, no more paint.


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## urbanoutlaw (Nov 19, 2012)

westernbeekeeper said:


> As far as paint, I use Valspar 2-in-1 primer + paint for finishing my hives.


What kind of service life are you getting out of the Valspar paint? I scored some of the 2-in-1 on oops special at Lowes.


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

Ten years isn't very long -- my brother's "old" hive will be eight years old this year, and we are thinking it might need another coat of paint.

The Behr Ultra-Premium is wonderful stuff -- very easy to apply and dries very hard, unlike some other paints I've used that never really seem to set properly, you can peel them off with a fingernail.

Sealed, primed, and properly painted boxes should last quite a while so long as you don't pry on the rabbet or leave them out in the rain without a proper cover. You will need to repaint every ten years or so.

More important is to make absolutely positive that the end grain is sealed and that the box joints do not have open gaps. I finally quit screwing around with my old box joint jig after nearly ruining a couple boxes tonight and made a new one. Perfect this time, the joints require a tap with a mallet to fit completely together, which means a small amount of glue will seal them properly.

I suspect the eco-treatment is milk paint without filler. If so, it should last quite a while. I still prefer paint, mainly because my boxes have knots!

Peter


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

I think sometimes we put in too much effort worrying about stuff like paint/stain types. I have a stack of boxes that have whitewash on them and are dated from the early 50s. I still keep bees in them. I did try painting over some of them, but paint doesn't stick well to layers of whitewash.


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## pat kelly (Nov 23, 2011)

NeonBee said:


> Ahhh the age old question, to paint, stain, etc. This is what we do and it works for us.
> 
> We build our own boxes out of pine and brand every panel before assembly using the drill press method. During assembly we use Titebond III on the joints and fasten them using 7/16x1.5" galvanized staples via a Senco pneumatic stapler. Once the glue dries we prepare a batch of Eco Treatment. It comes in a powder form and we make 5-10 gallons at a shot using distilled water. The reason for the distilled water is that it will store in solution longer without worry, per the manufacturer. In addition, for each gallon of mix we add about 5 ounces (a little more than 1/2 a cup) of water based dye, which can be purchased at your local paint or big box store. The reason for the dye is to further distinguish our equipment even though it is branded. We use browns and greens to blend in with the surroundings and to warrant a clean look. Eco is poured into a large pan and each super is rotated through the solution. The interior and the sides all get coated. We treat all equipment the same. Yes it uses a lot of eco treatment, but compare the product cost to the labor cost of paining equipment. Plus the eco allows for the branding to stand out.
> 
> The average lifespan of a super, in our opinion is 10 years. We stopped dealing with paint for several reasons, but the main reason being that one day a large chip of oil based paint lodged itself under a finger nail. From that point on, no more paint.


this is our second season with eco wood, dip mine inside and out,stack in yard to dry ,hose out and off let dry and store,seen no ill effects from bees, they will crawl on them while they dry seem not to bother them in hive


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## Adam Foster Collins (Nov 4, 2009)

Funny, when I was researching paints, I found no brand so consistently hated as Behr. I really have no experience with it myself. I was scared off by the reviews. Interesting to read about happy cutomers here though - I guess you never know until you try things.

I ended up using Sico solid stain in a dark brown.

Can you paint or stain over Eco Wood treatment?

Adam


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## DonShackelford (Jan 17, 2012)

Adam Foster Collins said:


> Can you paint or stain over Eco Wood treatment?


I use "Zinser 123" primer sold at Lowes. Interior/Exterior, covers any surface, and any paint can be used over it.

Just my 2 cents, Behr is low quality paint.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Perhaps this link won't work for most as access to ratings need a membership (about the best $20 you will ever spend). In short it shows Behr and Glidden as the top rated paints in the semi-gloss (unless you choose to spend $60 per gallon for Sherwin Williams. 
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...s/exterior-paint-ratings/ratings-overview.htm
Don: I can't vouch for every Behr product but I will just say that as an independent testing lab (that is beholding to no one) Consumer Reports generally rates Behr and California paint products very highly. It's a bit odd in my mind because I don't have a very high opinion of the overall quality of products sold in HD


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Did _Benjamin Moore_ make the list at all? I think their paints are some of the best.


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## rsjohnson2u (Apr 23, 2012)

To those using stain. Does the stronger smell of oil-based stain affect the bees? We had some one in our club use stain last spring, and when he opened the back of his car, the smell was overwhelming, and he had stained them two WEEKS before (they sure were pretty, though).


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Barry said:


> Did _Benjamin Moore_ make the list at all? I think their paints are some of the best.


They rate them after 3, 6, and 9 years of exposure. The only Benjamin Moore products they have tested are still in the early testing stages but look good to this point. The magazine article this past June has some additional info not on the web site. They only have a limited number of products in their testing program, don't know why. Their test results were the reason I first tried them and seeing the results really sold me.


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## NeonBee (Apr 21, 2010)

If you are going to use stain you have to allow them to completely dry and off gas. Depending on weather could be upwards of 6 weeks. 

Let me clarify our 10 year opinion on the life of a super. From a business perspective 10 years is what we use as a maximum for woodenware replacement. Constant moving takes its wear and tear on boxes and we take pride in our equipment. We repair and replace as necessary - it is usually less expensive to replace if you pay labor. As a marketing tool, our hives look pristine, we keep medication records, and have a method to inventory our equipment. If you were looking for pollination services would you tend to contract out to someone who's boxes are falling apart and look worn, or would you tend to think that nice boxes, well maintained equipment, lots of bees and a high level of professionalism offers more? It's not only about having healthy bees - perception plays a large role especially if you want those corporate farm contracts. Remember there are many external factors that effect wooden ware lifespan. 

I am not saying what we do is right or is the best method, all I can report is what we do and what works for us. Even after 25 years there is still a learning curve and a more efficient approach. Always be improving in order to exceed survival.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

NeonBee said:


> Let me clarify our 10 year opinion on the life of a super. From a business perspective 10 years is what we use as a maximum for woodenware replacement. Constant moving takes its wear and tear on boxes and we take pride in our equipment.


So you are saying all equipment is routinely replaced after 10 years?


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Thanks Jim. I've been happy with Behr overall. Still use Moore Impervo for interior trim and like their exterior house paint as well. I know they've been changing their products recently. I'll give your Behr exterior a try.


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## dixiebooks (Jun 21, 2010)

I've been experimenting with numerous paints and stains. I have a gallon of Behr (purchased as an "oops" can) and thought that something was wrong as it was so thick compared to other paints. I just put it on thick and as it dried it seemed to soak into the wood. I was really impressed with how easily it went on and I put on two coats. So far, it is doing very well. The only place I am having problems is where I painted over joints sealed up with exterior wood filler. I'm inclined to think that is a problem with the filler (Elmer's) and not with the Behr paint. (I've recently begun using some Red Devil Crack Patch "premium acrylic spackling" to see how well it holds up. I've read recently about using bondo and may try that, as well.)

As I said, Behr is THICK - the thickest I've ever used - at least, until I got some Cabot Solid Acrylic "Stain". Now, that stuff is REALLY thick - like painting with Pepsodent. But it, too, soaks in really well and allows for two coats. A local big box had 5 1-gallon cans of that Cabot solid stain for just a smidgen over $2 per can on the oops rack. I couldn't resist for that price and plus the fact that it is white.

FWIW, I've tried some Glidden and found that it inhales rather sharply, if you know what I mean. The worst I've tried so far is some from Wal-Mart.

Maybe in a few years I can report back on what works in my area and what doesn't.

-js


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## DonShackelford (Jan 17, 2012)

Admittedly, I had one bad experience with Behr. It has been a few years, and probably does not reflect all their paint.


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## tefer2 (Sep 13, 2009)

I found some of the Cabot solid color acrylic stain on the table for $5.00. It was normally $38.00. I'm liking it so far. Trying to figure out how to thin it for the airless.
Drys fast and the stacked boxes don't stick


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## Beestricken (May 16, 2013)

LeonardS said:


> I have been putting Titebond III on all end grain, knots and nail holes. Then I apply two coats of Zinsser and then two coats of Menards exterior (don't remember the brand) white, semi-gloss latex. I don't have enough history to know how it will work. About 3 weeks ago I tried burning the grain of some hives and *applied 3 coats of marine varnish.* They look much nicer than the white painted ones, but we will see how they last.


Just curios Leonard, how are the marine varnished ones holding up?


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## jamneff (Mar 5, 2012)

I go to either Lowes or Home Depot several times a month, when I go I always check the oops paint area. This is a shelf where they place any paint they messed up in mixing colors. I just look for exterior grade paint, they will always place a drop on the lid so you can see the color. If its a light color then I will buy it, most of the times they are $5 a gal. I have even seen the 5 gal buckets of paint for $25. I then paint 2 coats on each hive body.


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

I used Kilz for the primer...








Then used olympic (two coats) for the top coat.....








On all of my hives. Looks like I painted them yesterday.

Then, just to test, I satined one of my hives with this stain...








Lasted four months before it started weathering. I'll stick to paint.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

I buy the 25 yr caulk for about $2 and put it on the end grain, knots and cracks where boxes are put together.

Also use titebond 3 and screws.

Make my boxes out of 2 X 12 lumber (better quality then 1 X lumber at the retail level and cheaper)

Paint them with kilz primer and opps paint.


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## chr157y (Feb 14, 2013)

psfred said:


> I suspect the eco-treatment is milk paint without filler. If so, it should last quite a while. I still prefer paint, mainly because my boxes have knots!
> 
> Peter


I believe it is some sort of iron treatment. Check out this thread:
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?278456-ECO-Wood-Treatment

Anyway, it is not a milk paint. I "painted" my top bar hive in the ECO Wood Treatment (inside and out) and it seems to be doing ok.... only 1 year old though. My hive is pine, and I found out a little too late that it is not recommended for pine, but it sure does look beautiful!

My new hive is cypress. I'll probably use the ECO treatment on it and paint it to be extra cautious.

Can you now get the ECO Wood Treatment at HD in the US?? When I bought it is was only available in stores in Canada. I had to order it online. I'd rather order it from a beekeeping supplier if I had to order more... just to support a smaller business.


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## Ranger Cody (Jan 21, 2012)

chr157y said:


> I believe it is some sort of iron treatment. Check out this thread:
> http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?278456-ECO-Wood-Treatment
> 
> Anyway, it is not a milk paint. I "painted" my top bar hive in the ECO Wood Treatment (inside and out) and it seems to be doing ok.... only 1 year old though. My hive is pine, and I found out a little too late that it is not recommended for pine, but it sure does look beautiful!
> ...



You can purchase ECO Wood Treatment at Home Depot. Where did you find information that ECO Wood is not recommended for Pine products? To my knowledge painting wood products after treating with ECO reduces its effectiveness. At least that's what it says on the box.


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## chr157y (Feb 14, 2013)

Ranger Cody said:


> Where did you find information that ECO Wood is not recommended for Pine products? To my knowledge painting wood products after treating with ECO reduces its effectiveness. At least that's what it says on the box.


From hawkeye63 on the above mention thread. 

"Just ferrous sulfate or better know as iron. Iron has been proven to be a significant deterrent to white-rot fungus. 
You can make your own by crushing 20 iron tablets into a quart of water, or buy food grade ferrous sulfate its what is in the vitamins. 
The reason the wood turns is because the iron reacts with the tannin in the wood. That is why it does not work on pine very good.
The forest service uses boric acid to help preserve wood as well, so 
I would not be surprised if a teaspoon of that would not help."

I'll have to look into what you said about after painting after using ECO. 

Aside from beekeeping, I love how the ECO Wood Protect patinas the wood instantly. I used it on a piece of cedar, and the results were stunning! I plan on using it for indoor furniture this summer, just because I love the look of it.


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## Ranger Cody (Jan 21, 2012)

Thanks for the info. I have emailed the company inquiring about this issue with Pine. Been using ECO for 3 years on Pine products and this is the first I've heard about it not being recommended. Also, Boric Acid is used as an insecticide, so I don't know if there would be any complications with the bees.


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## Bob_in_Westsylvania (May 5, 2013)

I used Eco-Treatment on one of my PINE hives last spring. It's been less than a year, but so far, I am satisfied. It continues to change color.


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

Exterior parts of the box will last pretty well if kept painted. Where I have a problem is with the edges. When two boxes are stacked, moisture gets in the cracks between them and over time decays the wood in that area. I've repaired a lot of 20 year old cypress equipment with this particular kind of damage over the last few days. Years ago, I learned to paint these surfaces with latex paint to extend the lifespan. Now I am using very hot melted beeswax and a small paint brush to apply wax to the join surfaces. I'll know in a few years if the wax is effective in reducing this decay.


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## Beestricken (May 16, 2013)

^ Fusion, are you talking about the edge where one box sits on top of another(where the hive tool is sticking out in the first picture above your post)? Should I "paint" that area with some Titebond?


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## labradorfarms (Dec 11, 2013)

I think people tend to worry to much about the small things! Remember painting is not brain surgery.
My advise is to buy some ext paint or some ext paint and primer in one. Buy a good name brand apply a couple of good coats. And worry no more about it...

The only thing IMHO you must worry about is what color you use. I advise white if you must use colors stay with light colors or pastels... Those hives will get hot this summer.


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## Snookie (Dec 13, 2013)

Beestricken said:


> ^ Fusion, are you talking about the edge where one box sits on top of another(where the hive tool is sticking out in the first picture above your post)? Should I "paint" that area with some Titebond?


Hummmm...I'm confussed I thought Titebond was a glue? How do you use it as a paint or edge sealer please explain and what type to use? 

Thanks


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

LeonardS said:


> Are you priming before using the Behr exterior paint or do you apply it directly to the bare wood? How many coats do you apply?


We use Behr also. We also beat the price by buying oops (miss tint) cans. Primer followed by 2 coats of paint. I cannot say how long it lasts on a hive but on my house it has lasted 9 years and counting. The last coat of paint on this house lasted 15 years.


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## delber (Dec 26, 2010)

Snookie said:


> Hummmm...I'm confussed I thought Titebond was a glue? How do you use it as a paint or edge sealer please explain and what type to use?
> 
> Thanks


I think what was referenced is to use this glue to paint the end grain. The end grain is where the moisture will seap in the worst. Use Titebond 2 or 3 not regular titebond. If you use just "Titebond" then the glue will separate with water exposure. I use Titebond 2 because it's water proof and it's cheaper than Titebond 3 and all of the Titebond glues are stronger than the wood, so the fact that Titebond 3 is stronger than Titebond 2 doesn't mean anything to me. (They're both stronger than the surrounding wood so what difference does it make) The purpose of the glue on the end grain is to seal up the pores on the boards so that moisture doesn't seap in. Some say that doing this will extend the life of the boxes. I personally haven't done this, but I also don't have boxes that are 10+ years old yet. I know of some on here that after 5 or so years will repaint their boxes. If this is done with a good quality paint then I think "painting the end grain" is not needed. JMHO.


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## philip.devos (Aug 10, 2013)

Bob_in_Westsylvania said:


> I used Eco-Treatment on one of my PINE hives last spring. It's been less than a year, but so far, I am satisfied. It continues to change color.
> 
> View attachment 8733
> View attachment 8734
> ...


Bob, I am curious about the dull, gray/brown finish that I see in your photos. Before applying the eco-Treatment were the unpainted boxes new wood? Does the finish create the dull look? I don't dislike the look, but it almost looks like unfinished weathered boxes.

Phil


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## toekneepea (Jul 7, 2010)

philip.devos said:


> Bob, I am curious about the dull, gray/brown finish that I see in your photos. Before applying the eco-Treatment were the unpainted boxes new wood? Does the finish create the dull look? I don't dislike the look, but it almost looks like unfinished weathered boxes.
> 
> Phil


Phil, the finish does create the dull look, my boxes were unpainted new wood and they dulled to the same look as well.

Cheers,
Tony P.


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## kbfarms (Jan 28, 2010)

Daniel Y said:


> We use Behr also. We also beat the price by buying oops (miss tint) cans. Primer followed by 2 coats of paint. I cannot say how long it lasts on a hive but on my house it has lasted 9 years and counting. The last coat of paint on this house lasted 15 years.


Same here, use very high quality mistinted paint, much better than cheap exterior paint. Don't care about the color


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## Colino (May 28, 2013)

After reading this thread, I've come to the conclusion that most of us don't take into consideration that all habitats are local. I read about rotting hives and warping problems that here in southern Alberta don't exist or are minimal. I have out back an old grainery that I use for junk storage, it is at least 60 years old and has never had a lick of paint. The building is still sound with absolutely no rot because of low humidity and moderate rainfall. This is not the only building like this, there are thousands like it across the prairies. Just an observation.
Colino


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## Uberwilhelm (Mar 7, 2013)

I used some good old Minwax clear stain. Two coats (a day between coats) then three coats of Minwax polyurethane with a day between each coat. All on the outside of the hive only and was very careful not to get any inside. So far they seem happy and fine.


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

You might be able to get away with no paint on the plains, but here the humidity is much too high. A 50 year old unpainted building here will be a pile of rotting wood -- there are several barns in the area that have not been painted in the last 30 years and they are all falling down.

Unpainted pine around here exposed to damp rots in a couple years. In the desert southwest, probably would last 100.

Peter


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## rsjohnson2u (Apr 23, 2012)

labradorfarms said:


> I think people tend to worry to much about the small things! Remember painting is not brain surgery.
> My advise is to buy some ext paint or some ext paint and primer in one. Buy a good name brand apply a couple of good coats. And worry no more about it...
> 
> The only thing IMHO you must worry about is what color you use. I advise white if you must use colors stay with light colors or pastels... Those hives will get hot this summer.


With all due respect, it's back to all beekeeping is local, I guess. In northwest Washington state, I'm less than a mile from salt water, and the sky is grey, grey, grey. I like DARK colors, even have a BLACK hive (flat black oops paint). I can count the days over 80 degrees last year on one hand, and not a single day did that hive beard or fan. The thermal gain from my black and dark green hives seems to help the bees cleanse at 41 degrees, while my lighter colored hives don't fly until 45. The only reason to have WHITE hives here is tradition or paint cost.


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## delber (Dec 26, 2010)

I don't know if I have said it, but I know others have. . . If you choose to paint, don't buy cheap paint!!! I did one time. Lesson learned. It's not worth the time to repaint after under a year.


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

psfred said:


> Unpainted pine around here exposed to damp rots in a couple years. In the desert southwest, probably would last 100.Peter


I reclaimed pine studs and siding that have been sitting outside for 40 years. They are straighter than studs and 1 x 10 you can buy at Lowe's. The only problem is they are super dry and that makes machining them a bit more difficult. That was the lumber that wasn't sitting directly on the ground.

Don't buy cheap paint.


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## Variable (Nov 18, 2013)

Do not yet know how long it will last but I am using Ultra Premium Red Label Penofin on cedar hives. Time will tell in this wet (western Washington State) climate. My neighbor used it on his cedar fence about 5 years ago... It still looks great. A bit pricy but after all the money I have put into equipment the finish is the least of the expenses...


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## julysun (Apr 25, 2012)

Consumers Reports is testing Bher deck stain and it has passed six years going for nine and still passing their requirements. I use it and only in white.


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## ABruce (Dec 27, 2013)

Since we are talking finishes, has anyone tried wax dipping. I have read about it and seen wood ware for sale that's paraffin dipped, I have my first 20 to finish and while wax looks good, buying a life time supply to fill a metal melting pot deep enough to immerse a super seems very expensive. Has anyone tried it?


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

I have not tried it but I have seen some suggestions on how to build a dipping tank that reduces the amount of wax required to fill it. Since you do not need wax in the center portion. place blocks bricks of fashion a box to fill that space reducing the volume that needs to be filled with wax. basically you are creating a channel that the hive box will fit down into and be submerged.

Now having said that I will also add that if wax seems expensive to fill a tank it will still be expensive when coating a hive. I have heard it works well but you want to use a paraffin wax or a mix of paraffin and beeswax. I have also seen comments about sources for wax that are much lower price than would be typically found. I would have to go do some searching to find that information again if i was able to find it at all. I have seen several conversations on wax dipping of hives over the past couple of years though.

I will also add this which is something I have not seen anyone else comment on. With my experience of wood and wood stabilization. That means taking out the properties of wood that cause it to con tract and expand. Which is actually pretty extensive. I not only see reason for wax dipping to be a far better treatment for wood. But if done at high enough temperatures and with the addition of pressure I think you could come very close to removing the expansion and contraction from your hive bodies.

Lumber expands and contracts with moisture changes because the cells within that wood are still in tact. They act something like little bottles that will fill with water when they get wet. when they get wet they swell.

There are two ways to prevent this swelling. One prevent the cells from getting wet. or two rupture them basically breaking the bottle. Since the cells being intact also gives wood it's strength the second option is not a very desirable one. So taht leaves us with preventing the cell from gettign wet.

You can prevent a cell from getting wet by trying to make a water tight barrier between it and the water. that is what paint is basically doing. Or you can fill the space the water would go with something else. Like wax. Filling the cell with something else is called stabilization. It can actually be done with plastics with the correct equipment. I suspect it can be done with wax with far less precision.

In all done correctly I believe wax dipping would go far beyond simply painting to preserve equipment. But it woudl require it is done in a way that allows the wax to penetrate the cells of the wood.


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## delber (Dec 26, 2010)

In all of my woodworking classes and personal experiences you won't eliminate the expansion and contraction with wax. YOu can reduce it and protect it so that it beads off and doesn't penetrate, however if in the summer it's humid that moisture will get into the wood. As in the winter when it's bone dry that will dry out the wood also. I have also read of wax dipping and it seems great. The issue in my mind isn't the wax, but the tank and element / elements to heat it. The tank would need to be stainless or it will rust over time. Also the heating element would need to be protected so that the wax doesn't touch it, or it needs to be a burner under the tank. I was a cabinet maker for several years, and now am a welder. It's interesting knowing stuff from both sides.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

Delber, Have you ever used stabilized wood? Since the term has begun to be used to refer to multiple process of varying degrees of effectiveness I offer this as the standard for what I considered stabilized.
http://www.stabilizedwood.com/

It does remove all the typical properties of movement from the wood. I have been using such wood for nearly 12 years.


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## delber (Dec 26, 2010)

Daniel, Thanks for the education. I haven't seen this at all. In rereading your above post I do see your mentioning it, but you don't seem to go into detail as the website does, but I can see your point. Do you use this for your boxes? It seems to me that it'd be a good way to protect the wood, however it would be a expensive way to go and increasing the boxes from 50-150% in weight could also be a issue. They'd be more durable which is a plus. If you do use this for your boxes, do you ship it to them assembled or unassembled? If it's unassembled, I assume you can assemble it after it's done, but how do you do that? The process is a pressure application of resins that totally fills all of the cells of the wood making it both heavier and much harder. They say on one place that the wood can actually split if you hit it with a hammer seemingly similar to hitting a rock with a hammer.


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## spreerider (Jun 23, 2013)

I go to the local paint store and buy the highest quality paint they have in the miss tint bin it usually around 10/g for the high end exterior paint that is usually 50/g, i dont care what colour the boxes are, i almost always end up with a green beige type colour (i am sure my gf can tell me what it is actually called)
I use this cheap paint all over my farm and everything matches

it is very damp rain forest where i live so any unprotected wood doesnt last more than a couple years, pine and hemlock are the worst around here, western red cedar is not too expensive here so many build hives with that and dont paint them.


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## toekneepea (Jul 7, 2010)

toekneepea said:


> Phil, the finish does create the dull look, my boxes were unpainted new wood and they dulled to the same look as well.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tony P.


All beekeeping is local. Your environment may vary, but The Eco-Wood Treatment is junk (here in New England) and should be avoided. Boxes lasted less than 3 years before they started warping and cracking.

Tony P.


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