# Honey Super Cell Fully Drawn Plastic Frame 4.9 mm.



## Nugget Shooter (Mar 28, 2016)

Has anyone here used these frames and if so what are your impressions? Hoping to hear from some using them as it seems a cool idea. :scratch:

http://www.simpsonsbeesupply.com/


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## AR Beekeeper (Sep 25, 2008)

The bees hate them.


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

Where I love pierco and acorn 1 peace frames - I for sure wouldn't pay that for a frame - how would they do going through a cowen uncapper?


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## JoshuaW (Feb 2, 2015)

We have about half our colonies on HSC. 

Advantages: 1) *Already drawn*. 
2) *4.9* if you're into small cell. 
3) *Great regression tool* if you're going down that road. 
4) *Indestructible* (mostly; I don't know about the uncapper, though I wouldn't be surprised if tiny shards of plastic came off...). 
5) *Wax moth can't touch it*. 
6) *No place for SHB to hide*. 

Disadvantages: 1) Drones are reared *between the top and bottom of frames*, so if you use it, provide a foundationless or a drone cell frame to minimize frames being stuck together. 
2) Very *heavy*. 
3) Read #2 again. 
4) Larvae destined to become queens must be "floated" to the top of the cell because the *workers can't re-shape the plastic cells* (obviously); this has resulted in potentially smaller queens than I like. 5) *Very expensive* frames. I can buy 4 wood frames with plastic foundation for the price of one HSC. HSC costs $80.00 to equip one 10-frame box vs. $24.00 for wood and plastic.
6) When re-queening, you *can not* use a push-in cell protector, a push-in cage, or press a three-hole cage into the brood comb: the plastic doesn't give. 
7) If used in the honey supers, this results in a *very heavy deep super* full of honey inside a heavy plastic frame. 
8) *Bees don't like plastic*; but I increase acceptance time by rolling a layer of hot wax onto any plastic I use, frame or foundation. 
9) *When new*, the larvae slid out of the cells during inspection (oops). This doesn't happen anymore, though. 
10) *Very difficult to clean*. I love just scraping old brood comb off my plastic foundation, but some of the old HSC looks awful. But let the wax moths clean it up and they eat everything: propolis, cocoons, wax, everything. And it looks like new, just with a yellow tint. Good use for a wax moth. 
11) HSC frames are white, which makes *seeing larvae and eggs very difficult* until the bottom turns dark from cocoons and propolis.


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## Nugget Shooter (Mar 28, 2016)

great info and they now also offer black.....


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## JoshuaW (Feb 2, 2015)

I forgot to mention that Randy Oliver did a HSC trial: http://scientificbeekeeping.com/trial-of-honeysupercell-small-cell-combs/

Definitely worth the read before you make a final decision.


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

Josh - have 300 hives with 6/7 deep average - Would have to float a loan from uncle Donald to go that route


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## emrude (Mar 23, 2015)

I bought from Simpson when I started last year. I wanted to "do the regression thing". Last year was a bad year for bees. By July, I was happy to have any bees, much less smaller bees. I checkerboarded with foundationless frames. The bees did behave and build straight comb in the empty frames. I have green plastic so seeing eggs should be easier, but I don't remember ever seeing an egg. I can see three day old larva, but even with magnifying glass I can never find eggs. (I rarely see the queen.) I think they helped the bees to drawn straight comb, and the bees use them for brood. I don't think I've gotten any honey from them. I think I would just let the bees have that honey. The honey I got in May on fresh drawn wax was perfect. The Simpsons were good to do business with but I probably won't get anymore plastic frames. I am letting my bees regress slowly and really enjoying honey on fresh comb.

Mary


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

Em - sure the green plastic is not drone comb? I know with pierco and Acorn that's there color for it


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## emrude (Mar 23, 2015)

Sak--No it is the smaller 4.9mm. The brood in the green frames have been tightly packed. With the foundationless frames built up next to it you can see the drone comb as well as the smaller worker bee cells. But you know, now I'm thinking I'm going to pull one out and check it. :s

I think the HSC let my bees build up quicker last summer. The owner of a St. Louis bee store had never seen it before she saw one in my bee box. I got a frame of brood from her summer of '15 to save queenless--or thought to be queenless hive. 
If doing it over I would probably get the small cell foundation and cut it into strips so the bees would be guided down the strips. I installed about ten frames doing that last year. I am happy with foundationless frames. The bees just need to be watched and guided to fill up whole box of empty frames.
My bees are still drawing wax even though things have slowed down.
I am also going to figure out how to make the "F" frames from Kelly's. I really like them and I only have 10 left to put together. I know I could setup my table saw to cut them.  I have been building my boxes from wood I have laying around so I don't have to buy boxes.


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## JoshuaW (Feb 2, 2015)

sak that's why my new hives are on wood frames with acorn foundation. Cheap and light. Drawn out fully and beautifully.


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## emrude (Mar 23, 2015)

I pulled out one of my green HSC and they are 4.9 mm. Of course, now I need to do all kinds of projects for hives. Better than dishes and laundry.

Mary


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

$8 a frame? Good gravy...


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## emrude (Mar 23, 2015)

jwcarlson said:


> $8 a frame? Good gravy...


That's why I'm going to make my own frames. I wanted to be able to make honey bees a go last year. And the one thing I thought would give the bees a boost was the HSC frames. I going had plans for two hives. I had a chunk of change from retiring that I spent on bees. $80.00 wasn't that much in the big picture. I bought everything I thought I would need.  
Last summer was a hard summer to get started. I got through last winter with two hives. This year, I am building my hives with wood I have had for years. I am painting them with just about any kind of paint. And I have spent $20.00 on getting a queen for a nuc.
Hobby beekeepers can overlook a few overpriced prizes. 
I am not going to buy anymore HSC frames and I hope that I don't have to buy anymore bees. 

Mary


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## blueskydixon (Jul 9, 2011)

I bought 20 black frames four years ago. They never liked them in the deeps. I cut them to mediums. I leave them as a brood box, not honey supers. When a queen likes them they are perfect. But not all queens like them and I find I have to move them around when rejected by a new queen. The spacing across the top of the frames is off and the bees there get squished from the box overhead, and I try to use them only in the bottom box because of them building bridge comb/drones under the frames. So, I both like and dislike them. I also got a batch that is curved/bowed. So I can't mix them with other frames or the whole box gets wonky.


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## Nugget Shooter (Mar 28, 2016)

Great info and thank you all!


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Has anyone here used these frames 

Yes.

>and if so what are your impressions?

I think you can do a search and find a lot of discussion. But here's my two cents. The bees hesitated to use it. Putting a new package on it, if you keep them from absconding (use a queen "includer" or some open brood to anchor them) it will set them back about two weeks while they piddle around and finally accept it. Once they start using it, they treat it like any other comb. You get small cell and indestructible comb. It's heavy and expensive. For the cost, I find the PF100s (or PF120s) from Mann Lake to be quicker and cheaper, but not as indestructible. I found someone selling them used (cheap) and bought two pallet loads of HSC. Unfortunately now I have to cut them all down to mediums...


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## j.dickhdequip (Nov 4, 2021)

Michael Bush said:


> > Has anyone here used these frames
> 
> 
> Yes.
> ...


Do you still have the deep Frames? If so, I am interested. I cannot find at all and no one has in stock anywhere.


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## Clayton Huestis (Jan 6, 2013)

Seriously people bees can make combs for free. No need to take a loan out. I'd rather invest in vsh stock then hsc. I know you won't listen 16+ yrs with small cell..... varroa is still here.


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## j.dickhdequip (Nov 4, 2021)

I thought that I would try it out which seemed to be interesting. I thought that something like this would be pretty much indestructible.


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## ffrtsaxk (Jul 17, 2017)

j.dickhdequip said:


> I thought that I would try it out which seemed to be interesting. I thought that something like this would be pretty much indestructible.


I use them and yes, they are pretty much indestructible under normal use. I don't have to worry at all about small hive beetle and wax moth damage. Simpson's Bee Supply in Ohio is the only place I know that sells them. I placed an order in for more about 5 months ago. I still haven't gotten them. They said they are still waiting on the injection molding company they use to manufacture them to make more. The shutdown from covid and repercussions has really messed things up.


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## j.dickhdequip (Nov 4, 2021)

I called everyone basically to get a couple boxes for the nucs to explode, since I figured they didn't have to pull anything out with the exception of cleaning the cell, and the queen laying into the cell. So, I am not sure, I have seen some that are selling for $19.00 per frame which is nuts really. I also found some type of frame coming from Spain that is fully pulled out, however, I think that this is totally wax, and I am not sure how this would be pulled out, let alone with stand say an extractor.

What sort of Frames do you use that are the plastic ones? 

I have used plastic inserts into the wooden frame, however, I found the tend to build some wonki cells from the center, really no uniformity sometimes.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

I have used them. I still have a few, around. None that are presently, in service. They add weight to a hive, being heavier than the usual wooden/plastic/beeswax frames with drawn comb. They are darn expensive. Black ones would be dangerous, here in Tucson, AZ. If you were to set a black one, where the sun touched it, for even a minute or two, whatever was in it would be cooked, and t would begin melting -- not good.


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