# another table saw thread



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>So here is the question: if you have less than $200 to spend which tablesaw would you buy.

I bought a Ryobi from Home Depot for about $75 or so. I've been pretty happy with it. The downsides are:

I can only get a wobble dado blade and it only goes to 5/8" or so. That means two cuts to do 3/4" for a rabbet joint.

The fence only goes to about a foot or so. That means I can't set it to cut 13 3/4" for an eight frame top let alone 19 7/8" for a side. It would be nice if I could.

That said, I still think it was well worth buying and I'm sure I've already gotten my money's worth out of it.

One up side is, I think you get less problems with kick back with a smaller motor.

Another is, of course, the price.

Another is the light weight. I don't have enough room in my garage to run it, so I haul it outside to use it and haul it back in to put it out of the weather. It's quite portable.


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## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

MAN, stuff is expensive!!
I have a delta similar to this

http://www.cpowoodworking.com/table_saws/36-979r.html

I paid about $200 for it 10 years ago new
I really like the cast iron table to reduce vibration
of course that makes it really hard to move 
look for second hand so you can splurge on quality and still get most of your money back if you decide you don't want to keep it

Dave


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## Jeffzhear (Dec 2, 2006)

I have an inexpensive lightweight Craftsman, and its paid for itself many times over. It is lightweight, easy to move in and out of the garage, has its own stand and as long as I measure boards twice and cut once, I seem to be fairly successful...


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## kopeck (May 26, 2007)

I have one of those light little Craftsman jobs and don't like it at all. I got it when I was building my house, needed something on site. It got most of the jobs done but is not my idea of a nice tool.

Since then I've inherited my grandfather's old 10" Craftsman table saw. This is the oldie but goodie cast iron table jobs, nice sturdy saw. I replaced the fence with a Shop Fox Classic Fence and it's just an awesome machine now.

I'm pretty spoiled, my dad has a UniSaw so that's what I was used to using. My current setup isn't quite as nice, but it's close enough for me!

K


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## beehoppers (Jun 16, 2005)

I have the Bosh for a job saw and like it.
The fence of the cheap saws can be dangerous. Make sure it clamps securely and is parallel to the blade or a bit away from the back of the blade.
Most important...get a good carbide tipped rip or combination blade. It may go $60 but the cheapness of the saw doesn't justify a cheap blade.


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## magnet-man (Jul 10, 2004)

You can't beat a Delta contractor saw. Lowes has what I believe is a Delta contractor saw for $449 without the fence. 
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=237665-32764-36-979&lpage=none

As for a fence I would recommend a Biesemeyer fence. You can easily clamp and drill holes in it. I have a unisaw fence and is great for furniture making, but it is hard to clamp things to.

Regardless of what brand you get make sure it has an induction motor and not a universal motor. With the induction motor the saw is quite when it is running. It only makes noise when you are cutting lumber. 

I use my saw to make inner covers, top covers and bottom boards. That is where you can save money with the saw. You can't save money making boxes or frames. You have to make an awful lot of them too to pay back the cost of the saw, blades, etc.


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## peggjam (Mar 4, 2005)

I wouldn't buy anything with the "Craftsman" name on it. Can you say elcheapo? Spend your money on a good saw, and you won't regret it, but buy a cheap one, and you will soon say "boy, someone should smack me up side my head."


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## Tommy (Oct 9, 2005)

peggjam said:


> I wouldn't buy anything with the "Craftsman" name on it.
> 
> I have one my wife bought for me 38 years ago. Only replaced the on-off switch on it. I used it to build 2 houses with out any problems.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Keith Benson said:


> So here is the question: if you have less than $200 to spend which tablesaw would you buy.
> Keith


Buy a used Rockwell, or Delta. I see them in the paper from time to time. Usually $100-200. They last for just about ever...mine is almost 40..and you can get parts at delta.com


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## magnet-man (Jul 10, 2004)

Delta or Rockwell (same company but at different times) do hold their value.


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## peggjam (Mar 4, 2005)

Tommy said:


> peggjam said:
> 
> 
> > I wouldn't buy anything with the "Craftsman" name on it.
> ...


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

Hit the closest major metro areas. Several on the Atlanta Craigslist.

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/tls/597360677.html
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/tls/591967998.html
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/tls/583942445.html


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## berkshire bee (Jan 28, 2007)

As with many things, sometimes you can get something used that is better quality and for less money than new. You do have to shop around and know what to look for. Both of my table saws were bought used. Both are Craftsman saws with very heavy cast iron tables and I got the first one in 1975, ran a craft business for a few years, remodeled my house and it's still going strong.


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## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

Ross posted this one

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/tls/591967998.html

it's exactly like mine which I like a lot
it's also the same price I paid for mine 10 years ago

Dave


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## Budvar (Feb 5, 2008)

A friend of mine has a beautiful table saw he inherited from his father. It's probably 50 years old, cast iron table, all kinds of adjustments. Probably 500lbs.

I do have a cheapo "Delta", from Lowes or Home Depot, can't remember. It was definitely cheap. But also LIGHT, and PORTABLE!!!!! 

I've made all kinds of stuff with it. Root cellar, large greenhouse and shed, projects. I've used dado blades and made some nice joints. Haven't made any hiveware with it, yet.

One thing that really helped the accuracy of my low end saw....a "sled". It's easy to make, and makes your table saw much more accurate, and safer. You make it with odds and ends in a couple hours. Google it and you will see free plans at many places on the net.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Keith Benson said:


> I have been Jonesing for a Bosche work site saw


Keith, I thought you already bought yourself a saw. If not, I'd still push you to buy a used Delta/Rockwell.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

...i've found that i'm much happier with a good, old radial arm saw for almost everything. lots of advantages over a table saw:

you can see the blade cutting
the direction of force on the workpiece is down and away from you (rather than up and towards you)

...but i wouldn't buy a new one, or the easily available craftsmans...an old cast iron thing is what you want in an ras.

deknow


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## chefbeek (Sep 7, 2007)

*Delta Contractor Saw*

I used a Delta contractor (USA made!) saw for all of the equipment I have (frames included) Worked great. Dado stacks to 3/4" plus for great joints. I just got a General cabinet saw with a Biesmeyer fence and the only difference is fit and finish.

The Delta is sitting in my basement right now (Syracuse) Anyone have bees they want to trade. (Sorry if I'm out of line here....bump me if you must )

Eamon (Chefbeek)


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

It's impossible to rip to the center of a sheet of plywood on a radial arm. It's very dangerous to rip at all. I keep one for crosscuts only. Get it to a perfect 90 degrees, lock it down and leave it.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

mmm, i think i said that i perfer the ras for "almost everything". i don't use it for ripping...but almost everything else is easier and safer (assuming the ras is properly aligned, and not a cheap sheet metal job).

i have a 10" delta/rockwell turret head ras from the 60's that i bought in very good condition for $100...it has pretty good stops for 90 and 45 degree angle cuts, so i'm not shy about moving things around.

ras get a bad rap because of the cheap ones...get a good one and you won't look back.

deknow


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## Keith Benson (Feb 17, 2003)

Barry said:


> Keith, I thought you already bought yourself a saw. If not, I'd still push you to buy a used Delta/Rockwell.


I didn't, some other things came up and got in the way. I still have a folder on my desktop with copies of our conversation because you gave me a ton of information. I have been checking out Craig's list in my immediate area for used Delta/Rockwell but so far what I've seen his other been in very poor shape or seems to get on the list and off the list in about three seconds. I get the impression that Craig's list is one of those things you have to check often they just be prepared to pull the trigger on.

I still t have a storage issue though (hence my lusting over the Bosch unit - it folds up), but I've been suggesting to my lovely bride that a halfway decent table saw might just be the ticket to help me build a shed ... and therefore have increased storage... and I trashed my shoulder, so my grand plans of building a shed this winter for out the window. It seems like to get a solid a small footprint that is a really nice job you pay through the nose, and if you pay that kind of money you might as well get a really nice saw and find some other way to satisfy your storage issues etc. etc.

Keith


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## trapperbob (May 27, 2007)

I have the ryobi like MB and just like him I wish the fence was a little longer but it has been a very sound saw and was needed very badly when bought and it served me very well and still does but if i had the cash I would buy a saw with a much longer fence and set the ryobi up for a single cut so to make things a little more streamed lined. It's been a good saw so why get rid of it. I also have a ryobi router and router table and it's just as reliable.


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## Daniel Bailey (Dec 8, 2007)

Just go ahead and buy the 80-99 dollar el-cheapo, you'll probably find that it is not enjoyable to operate, but it will get the job done. Also you won't have so much invested that you feel guilty when you upgrade down the road. In the meantime, if you're like me it will give you something to blame your sloppy craftsmanship on.


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## HVH (Feb 20, 2008)

Keith Benson said:


> I didn't, some other things came up and got in the way. I still have a folder on my desktop with copies of our conversation because you gave me a ton of information. I have been checking out Craig's list in my immediate area for used Delta/Rockwell but so far what I've seen his other been in very poor shape or seems to get on the list and off the list in about three seconds. I get the impression that Craig's list is one of those things you have to check often they just be prepared to pull the trigger on.
> 
> I still t have a storage issue though (hence my lusting over the Bosch unit - it folds up), but I've been suggesting to my lovely bride that a halfway decent table saw might just be the ticket to help me build a shed ... and therefore have increased storage... and I trashed my shoulder, so my grand plans of building a shed this winter for out the window. It seems like to get a solid a small footprint that is a really nice job you pay through the nose, and if you pay that kind of money you might as well get a really nice saw and find some other way to satisfy your storage issues etc. etc.
> 
> Keith


Keith,

If I were in the market for a used saw I would be very happy to find one of the older Delta/Rockwells but I wouldn't limit my search to that saw. Some of the older Delta Unisaws, Powermatic#66, and Generals would do nicely. I'm sure others could add to the list to make the search even more exhaustive. The newer asian machines are expensive and the castings are thinner. If I were inexperienced and accident prone I might consider a SawStop table saws http://www.sawstop.com/. I have a Powermatic#66 and think it was one of the better saws made. If I ever get another crack at it I will look for an old Oliver 14/16" double arbor table saw, but I recognize a dream when I hear one.


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## Scut Farkas (Jun 7, 2007)

I'm waiting and saving up for SawStop to come out with the contractor model seen here>>> http://sawstop.com/products-contractor-saw.htm

It will cost around $1,500 but it has a built in safety feature that makes it all but impossible to get severly hurt. That's just what my klutzy butt needs.


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## HVH (Feb 20, 2008)

Scut Farkas said:


> I'm waiting and saving up for SawStop to come out with the contractor model seen here>>> http://sawstop.com/products-contractor-saw.htm
> 
> It will cost around $1,500 but it has a built in safety feature that makes it all but impossible to get severly hurt. That's just what my klutzy butt needs.


Just out of curiosity, why a contractor saw instead of the cabinet saw? For a few hundred bucks more you could get the heavier saw.


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

The difference is usually more than double, and contractor saws are usually more plentiful. Some guys wait a long time to pick up a PM66 (like mine). The difference in $350 or so and $800 and up is a chunk of change to many people.


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## HVH (Feb 20, 2008)

Ross said:


> The difference is usually more than double, and contractor saws are usually more plentiful. Some guys wait a long time to pick up a PM66 (like mine). The difference in $350 or so and $800 and up is a chunk of change to many people.


I think I have a serious tool fetish. I fall asleep during chick flicks, but got teary eyed when I heard that Powermatic became Jet, and PorterCable became B&D. We haven't had real solid tooling for years. When the 4.5X26 worm drive belt sanders were discontinued many years ago I thought, what a loss. Now the 3X24 locomotive is gone. You can't buy a router anymore that isn't plastic, and most of the larger shop equipment has lost some weight. I've used lighter contractor saws and just didn't enjoy the experience. I have the PM66 also and love the extra mass (should have bought the 12" or 14"). Since I had wood shop every year from 6th grade forward and then worked in commercial shops until I got out of college, I was used to the bigger machines. I am so grateful that I put most of my shop together before everything went to China. Even then, my tools don't have the heft that the old Olivers had in the early half of the 20th century. I just think it is sad that my son will never be able to purchase really good tools. Maybe I should watch my back next time I go backpacking with him.


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

You need to come play in my shop. 16" Northfield jointer (1830#), 18" Delta wedgebed planer (1200#), Crescent 32" bandsaw (1600#), an older Crescent 32" (1000#), Delta 20" bandsaw, PM66, PM60, PM10 mortiser, PM30 sander, PM45, PM90, PM141, Delta 17" drill press, (2) Delta HD shapers with feeders, etc, etc. And a South Bend 13" metal lathe to keep them all running. I'm looking for a mill. I'm a real tool junkie. I have several hundred handplanes, a dozen Emmert vises, timber frame boring machines, 16" Makita circular saw, Makita chain mortiser, 14" and (2) 12" Delta radial arm saws. Oh yea, this is a hobby.


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## HVH (Feb 20, 2008)

Now we're talking. Sounds like my kind of candy store. If I ever get some money (probably won't) I would like to buy a good inverter so I can get some of the larger 3-phase toys. Having two teenagers and a stay at home wife, my wallet will probably stay downsized for many years to come. Between the bees and my real job, I don't have time to work on older tools and don't have the money for newer ones. At least Vaseline is cheap.


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

I put in a 10 HP rotary converter a few years ago and love it.


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## HVH (Feb 20, 2008)

Ross said:


> I put in a 10 HP rotary converter a few years ago and love it.


With all the big boys you own, I am a bit surprised that you responded to the router post with a 1.5 hp model for a router table. I have a PM27 shaper and 1hp power feed, but I still prefer a big router in my table so I can purchase 1/2" shank router bits instead of shaper cutters. If you use a lot of insert tooling and grind your own knives, I can certainly understand where your router doesn't get much use, but for me, shaper knives are way too expensive for my budget unless they will get used a lot (i.e. cope and stick cutters and raised panel cutters). The reason I would like the three phase equipment is really for the same reason. It is not so much that I like big manly tools (OK - so I do) but rather, I like the clean cuts that they make without all the chatter and vibration. Small table saws like to move when you place a heavy board on them, then they feel like toys when you run your stock through them. Most of the three phase 7.5-hp or better tools stay put and don't fight you every step of the way. You can really appreciate the difference in tools that really need the juice, like a planer or TimeSaver. But, even the smaller shop tools, like routers seem to behave better with more mass. 
I'm sure I am preaching to the choir. I had to tell my wife about your shop just so she knows how frugal I have been.


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## MapMan (May 24, 2007)

Ross said:


> You need to come play in my shop. 16" Northfield jointer (1830#), 18" Delta wedgebed planer (1200#), Crescent 32" bandsaw (1600#), an older Crescent 32" (1000#), Delta 20" bandsaw, PM66, PM60, PM10 mortiser, PM30 sander, PM45, PM90, PM141, Delta 17" drill press, (2) Delta HD shapers with feeders, etc, etc. And a South Bend 13" metal lathe to keep them all running. I'm looking for a mill. I'm a real tool junkie. I have several hundred handplanes, a dozen Emmert vises, timber frame boring machines, 16" Makita circular saw, Makita chain mortiser, 14" and (2) 12" Delta radial arm saws. Oh yea, this is a hobby.


Sounds like a most excellent shop. I'll bet you make some nice furniture - you must either teach woodworking or have some wealthy clients, right? Me, I have some tools that get me by - one of these days I hope to be able to get a wider jointer and a large bandsaw that will resaw without deflecting the blade, like my puny 14. I have enough projects on the farm that take all of the financial resources I have available; can't buy new or old tools until I get into the "golden years", but most likely those years will see me less golden than now! College-aged children with 28K/yr tuition takes a bunch too. Thankfully they got good grades in HS and were/are able to get grants and scholarships to take care of most of the costs!

MM


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

I don't do any commercial work really. It's really a hobby for me, but I wanted all my shop stuff setup before retirement. I also buy/sell to finance my hobby, so a lot of it was paid for by buying multiples at auction and selling off the excess. Buying 3 phase is generally cheaper too as many home shop guys are afraid of it. 

I really hate routers in general. They are too noisy and throw to much dust in the air. I have molding planes for a lot of profiles and a W&H molder too. I use the router where nothing else works or it saves me a bunch of time. I have the shapers for sticking rails and styles. 

I hear you about the college tuition. My daughter is a junior at Harvard. Law school is next. Someday I'll get to retire and play with bees and woodworking.


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