# 600 hive operation extractor options



## Dancing Bee Apiary (Jan 5, 2010)

hi there,


Sold my old extractor last fall. Run 600 colonies and plan on staying around this number. Looking to buy. Can any commercial tell me the best extractor to get for my money? Also how well it works for them.
Waited to the last second; so hope its not too hard to get my hands on something.

Thanks,


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

What was the extractor you sold? How well did you like it? Maxcant. Cowen. Dadant. If you got tit shipped into Canada from the US would you have to pay duty on it? Maybe you want one from somewhere in Canada?


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

Check with Herb Issac sales on line. Beemaid Winnipeg has several adds up. I just ordered a cowen in line took two months to get to WPG (still waiting but the arrival date has not happend yet).


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## Dancing Bee Apiary (Jan 5, 2010)

Just wondering what others are using with the size operation I have? Any models to avoid?


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

I have heard from more than one source that the old Hubbard's are probably the best radial ever made but there are lots of good radials out there as they are essentially a pretty simple machine. If you have the space, the budget and pretty good frames it's pretty hard to beat a Cowen auto-load but as Honeyshack pointed out it will take quite awhile to get one in and set up. I was at their factory earlier in the summer and they were really booked up.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

I have used an old Hubbard with the pegs for frame spacers in the bottom support hoop, and was not impressed. Back in the 60's we had a pair of extractors(friction drive, slide the wheel on the platter), Kelley's? that had notches with angled sides for the side bars to sit in , much nicer. 

Crazy Roland


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## Dancing Bee Apiary (Jan 5, 2010)

I've found a used 60 frame s.s dadant for sale. Not sure the age or model yet. I've also found some older Kelly 60 frame extractors. Have not seen them yet. Looks like I have some long drives ahead just to have a look.


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## funwithbees (Mar 27, 2010)

We use a 60 frame dadant that was new 2 seasons ago.Very well built machine-works well.Also run a maxant 50 frame that we put a new variable speed DC drive on. Serial# is 21. Bought it used and it is built like a tank. We spun 21 loads in about 5 hours on Friday.Not as effortless as a cowan auto loader, but much less money.We run 700 colonies.
Nick


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

funwithbees said:


> We use a 60 frame dadant that was new 2 seasons ago.Very well built machine-works well.Also run a maxant 50 frame that we put a new variable speed DC drive on. Serial# is 21. Bought it used and it is built like a tank. We spun 21 loads in about 5 hours on Friday.Not as effortless as a cowan auto loader, but much less money.We run 700 colonies.
> Nick


Good advice Nick. The challenge in any business is differentiating what you want from what you need.


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

A buddy of mine runs 550 hives and has two 72-frame radial Maxants. He and another beekeeper teamed up to rent a work room for carpentry and honey. The other guy buys all his honey, de-caps it, and processes it for sale at the local farmers' markets. He stays busy, and wishes it was two 144-frame units, as less process time means more selling time, and fewer frames sitting around for 3 days with beetle larvae making slime. Two other buy-and-sell companies nearby, non-beekeepers, one uses a single 60-frame unit, but I don't know how many hives she's buying from.


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## bhfury (Nov 25, 2008)

kilocharlie said:


> and fewer frames sitting around for 3 days with beetle larvae making slime.


Beetle larvae in California? Is that just a Central Coast thing?


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

I don't know about the rest of the state, but I've had 4 kinds of them here the last 3 years, and a friend in Goleta gets them bad if he lets frames sit after taking them out of the hive. His hives spend a lot of time up around Buellton, too. It's a real drag when you make your living selling honey at the farmers' markets!


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## bhfury (Nov 25, 2008)

Oh OK I thought you were talking about small hive beetles...


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## Sweet to the Soul (Sep 1, 2010)

Just got a bee blast from Mann Lake. They have the 114 (102 segmented) frame extractor on sale for $4500. I have no experience with it other than what i read in their catalog, but I thought it might be helpful for ya to know since your looking.

If anyone uses this extractor I would also greatly appreciate your thoughts on it. Not that I'm planning on buying one today, but you never know about tomorrow. Its hard to pass up a sale on power equipment and another extractor would help the extraction process go much faster.


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

Go with a Cowen 28 or 60 frame extractor system. You won't be sorry and it's complete...solid construction and good people to boot.
http://www.cowenmfg.com/


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## Dancing Bee Apiary (Jan 5, 2010)

I bought an older 60 frame dadant with a newer (3 years old) speed control that had been replaced. Will find out in a few weeks how it works. So for now, it looks nice in the shop.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

60 frame Cowen all the way


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## dgl1948 (Oct 5, 2005)

Here is a link to a fellow in Sask. who builds a couple of extractors.

http://www.bogend.com/bentley/extracinfo.html


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

Dancing Bee - Congrats! and good luck. I'd like to hear about how many frames processed in how much time with all these different setups! We have a chance to learn something about efficiency before we buy, here on this thread...anybody???

bhfury - Yes, SHB's, western hive beetles, some slightly larger brownish ones with tiny heads and small antennae, and some beautiful green beetles with polka dots. The hive beetles and Western hive beetles are the main problems. Find any better trap bait than veggie oil?

Another neat trick - putting a black widow spider in the hive tends to really keep down the wax moths. Just watch out for her and wear your gloves. She'll only eat a few bees a year, and doesn't seem to ever get the queen.


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## TooFarGone (Aug 19, 2012)

Hey Kilocharlie-
Intentionally putting or leaving Black Widow spiders in the hive does not pass my personal risk-benefit analysis. I have treated several patients with Black Widow spider bites and some got infections and other problems. Around here, the little buggers are just waiting to bite the back of your hand when you move the lumber pile. Also, my wife would kill me if I got bitten by one that I had allowed to stay in the hive!


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

Gee, whiz! There I go - too much beekeeping enthusiasm clouding common sense! I should stop the practice altogether. And I wouldn't want a wife biting me either! Both could be deadly! LOL


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

i find black widows in my inner covers all the time, they really like the hive environment. No beetles up here in the SF bay area.


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

alpha6 said:


> Go with a Cowen 28 or 60 frame extractor system. You won't be sorry and it's complete...solid construction and good people to boot.


My partner has a cowen 60 and swears by it. I have a maxant 20 frame but, will be going up in the next few years and need to go big. So will be looking at a 60 also. Let me know what you decide. You cant go wrong with a Maxant or Cowen in my opinion. Stear clear of the Mann Lake stuff it is Chinese and you wont be able to read the instructions.


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## Birds&Bees (Feb 26, 2009)

We have a Cowen 60 Air. I wish it was about 18 inches longer, it doesn't allow enough comfortable space to have two people scratching frames after they come out of the uncapper. I highly recommend the deboxer. This was, I think the 8th season, and one of the air valves quit functioning properly on the last day of extracting for the season, so overall, very trouble free. It holds 58 frames and not 60. We've been able to extract about 350 supers per 8 hour day roughly 18-20 drums.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Birds&Bees said:


> We've been able to extract about 350 supers per 8 hour day roughly 18-20 drums.


That equates to about an 8 minutes from start to start and more like 6 minutes start to stop. You have found that to be sufficient run time?


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## Birds&Bees (Feb 26, 2009)

I can stop, load and start in less than a minute, if I don't run it this fast it holds up the rest of the line, it could run longer but the gain is hardly significant. I will eventually upgrade to the 120, just not decided as to a cowen or cook & beals.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

I would be likely to get a 2nd maxant 20/40 and have them oposing over my clarifier so I don't have the lag of having to move uncapped frames from my 40 frame uncapped frame holder into an empty exractor. Also give me a back up if one breaks down.


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## megakg9 (Aug 3, 2011)

kilocharlie said:


> Dancing Bee - Congrats! and good luck. I'd like to hear about how many frames processed in how much time with all these different setups! We have a chance to learn something about efficiency before we buy, here on this thread...anybody???
> 
> bhfury - Yes, SHB's, western hive beetles, some slightly larger brownish ones with tiny heads and small antennae, and some beautiful green beetles with polka dots. The hive beetles and Western hive beetles are the main problems. Find any better trap bait than veggie oil?
> 
> ...


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Birds&Bees said:


> I can stop, load and start in less than a minute, if I don't run it this fast it holds up the rest of the line, it could run longer but the gain is hardly significant. I will eventually upgrade to the 120, just not decided as to a cowen or cook & beals.


You will gain some but maybe not that much considering where you are now. We run a C&B 120 and about 70 to 75 (9 frame) boxes per hour is about all I like to try to push through them and still have stuff coming out dry. A bit slower if the honey is dryer and a bit faster if the honey is thinner. That is about 10 minutes start to start with about 1 1/2 minute change times.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Hope this is not off topis too much, But, does steam help alot with the thick honey on the 60 run cycle?


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Keith Jarrett said:


> Hope this is not off topis too much, But, does steam help alot with the thick honey on the 60 run cycle?


Yeah I am sure it would. I don't happen to have a boiler and didn't really want to make the honey house even warmer but this summer it would have most certainly paid for itself. Most years we get by just fine without it.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Ya, a neighbour has installed a steamer into his machine and it really helps pull the dry honey out.



Keith Jarrett said:


> Hope this is not off topis too much, But, does steam help alot with the thick honey on the 60 run cycle?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

So I will run 40 boxes or so an hour through my 60 frame Cowen. 
How would running a 120 frame increase capacity? It runs the same uncapper, and I keep my uncapper full all the time, putting 50 boxes through max. My uncapper is my limiting factor


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Ian said:


> So I will run 40 boxes or so an hour through my 60 frame Cowen.
> How would running a 120 frame increase capacity? It runs the same uncapper, and I keep my uncapper full all the time, putting 50 boxes through max. My uncapper is my limiting factor


Ian: guess I wasn't clear that I was talking mediums which will run through the large Cowen when properly set at about 1,000 combs an hour deeps should run about 700 combs per hour maximum (Cowens website claims 80 boxes) . My experience is that if the honey isnt too thick and you have 3 really busy workers it is doable at least for a time. Realistically though for us it's tough for us to get much over 75 per hour on average as the Cowen spinner can slow things down and of course there is always the occasional jammed frame and all the other stuff that happens in an extracting room.


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## ryan (Apr 3, 2010)

Hi Ian
There are several large beekeepers who run multiple 60s. The argument goes on and on about which is better. I like my 120. What do you tell a guy who has 3 cowen 60s??? My smart mouth comment is "Didn't you have the money to buy the 120s?" 
If the 60 is working for you without stopping the uncapper, you have nothing to gain.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

so the 120 just gives longer spinning time then, 
I spin my extractor for about 8 min, and most all the honey is out.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

I don't mean to suggest that there is anything wrong with running 60's. By all accounts they are a really efficient setup. I know a guy who is running 3 of them with 2 C&B spinners and putting a million pounds a year through them. Like Ryan says if it's working for you.....


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Im thinking of changing gears to slow the uncapper down a bit. Thinking it will help prevent some of the Wax pushing problem that sometimes happens when the machine has alot of heavy frames running through


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Are you using the slotted or serrated blades?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

serrated, 
do you like the slotted?


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Yeah I do because irregular frames dont occasionally catch but you won't see an improvement with the comb tearing problem with the slotted blades it may even be worse. The new soft comb just does that a lot, perhaps a slower speed would help perhaps not, let us know if you try it.


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

What machine can be run by 1 person.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Cowen has a 28 framer and it can be run with one person, 
and if you have help, two people would make the work go twice as fast


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

kilocharlie said:


> bhfury - Yes, SHB's, western hive beetles, some slightly larger brownish ones with tiny heads and small antennae, and some beautiful green beetles with polka dots. The hive beetles and Western hive beetles are the main problems.


Western hive beetle? Is that a new pest? Is anyone checking hives coming out of California so those beetles don't get spread across the Nation, like CA does w/ truck loads of bees coming in for almond pollination?


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

Ian said:


> Cowen has a 28 framer and it can be run with one person,
> and if you have help, two people would make the work go twice as fast


I cant count on my kids when I need them so want to have the option to run slower by myself.


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## Kelleybees (May 9, 2012)

Dancing Bee Apiary said:


> hi there,
> 
> 
> Sold my old extractor last fall. Run 600 colonies and plan on staying around this number. Looking to buy. Can any commercial tell me the best extractor to get for my money? Also how well it works for them.
> ...


I have a 72 frame Walter T Kelley with variable speed motor and reverse, has worked great, had it special made. Looking to go down to a 33 frame. I will need to work up a price but if you're interested let me know.


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## Markt (Feb 8, 2012)

A cowen 60 will run with one person decently... You can't run it at it's full capacity of course but the up side is that the frames get added spin time. A used 60 Isn't too much more than a new 28 and I don't think you can get the 28 in air drive, the downside being the 60 with a deboxer is almost 22 feet long so you'd need considerably more space. Think I'm looking at about a 15-20 minute run time when I have to run mine alone

Just my 2 cents


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Two fourty framers are more efficient a use of time, unless you have help and then two larger extractors would be better. Fill one while the other is running. But you all already knew that.


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

I have the 28 cowen and run it by myself and keep up to it. Or rather it keeps up to me. When I am on my own the frames run longer. But with a helper, between 6-12 minutes depending on how dry the honey is. 
I bought the wax spinners and now wish I had the $ to go with the spin float. Spinning the cappings is what slows us up a bit when the cappings auger gets full.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Does that machine have a wax spinner on the machine?


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

No, the spinners are the maxant junior spinners that are included with the set up. The cappings auger, augers the wax and honey from the uncapper into it and spin the wax dry.


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## Honeyboy (Feb 23, 2004)

60 frame Cowen is the way to go, easy loading and unloading!!


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## KevinR (Apr 30, 2010)

honeyshack said:


> I have the 28 cowen and run it by myself and keep up to it. Or rather it keeps up to me. When I am on my own the frames run longer. But with a helper, between 6-12 minutes depending on how dry the honey is.
> I bought the wax spinners and now wish I had the $ to go with the spin float. Spinning the cappings is what slows us up a bit when the cappings auger gets full.


How much does a spin float cost compared to a capping spinner? Does the spin float lift the dry wax out of the machine as it operates vs the spinner that needs to be lifted out?

Thanks


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