# should i use, used beekeeping equipment?



## pamarrero

there is a gentleman who wants to give me his used bee equiptment cause he no longer wants to do it , I dont want to sound ungreatfull but is this a good idea , his stuff has been sitting for about 5 years and has some condition problems but i am sure i can salvage a hive or 2 out of it . 

he is verry nice and has offered me many boxes with frames both drawn and undrawn some with foundation and some not , all very sun bleached and used heavely , any ideas ?


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## Lazer128

*Re: should i use, used beekeepin equiptment?*

I'm a newbie here but I asked the same thing of a seasoned beekeeper in my area because I too have a lot ot used boxes, etc. that I can get. I was told it was risky because of American Foulbrood. I found this and thot I would post.

_When cleaning infected cells, bees distribute spores throughout the entire colony. Disease spreads rapidly throughout the hive as the bees, attempting to remove the spore-laden dead larvae, contaminate brood food. Nectar stored in contaminated cells will contain spores and soon the brood chamber becomes filled with contaminated honey. As this honey is moved up into the supers, the entire hive becomes contaminated with spores. When the colony becomes weak from AFB infection, robber bees may enter and take contaminated honey back to their hives thereby spreading the disease to other colonies and apiaries. Beekeepers also may spread disease by moving equipment (frames or supers) from contaminated hives to healthy ones.

American foulbrood spores are extremely resistant to desiccation and can remain viable for more than 40 years in honey and beekeeping equipment. Therefore honey from an unknown source should never be used as bee feed, and used beekeeping equipment should be assumed contaminated unless known to be otherwise._


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## Daniel Y

*Re: should i use, used beekeepin equiptment?*

If this same person called you about a swarm or a trap out. Would you go take the bees? For many the answer is an unquestionable yes. Yet you would refuse the box he has setting behind his shed to carry them home in. And this is Why? You will take all the comb etc from a cut out with no regard to what you are dragging home.

You can't suddenly click into hygiene mode over one tiny issue and expect to be accomplishing anything. your colony is already contaminated. and if it isn't it will be and it won't come from some old dusty box.


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## VolunteerK9

*Re: should i use, used beekeepin equiptment?*

The boxes, bottom boards, etc, yes I would reuse after a good bleaching and or scorching. The drawn comb I wouldn't use but that's just me.

DanielY is right though. I've jumped all over swarm calls before only to bring them home to my one and only yard I have and was glad to do it. So I guess it's just do whatever you are comfortable with and be prepared to deal with the potential consequences.


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## Rader Sidetrack

*Re: should i use, used beekeepin equiptment?*

Welcome to Beesource!

Reusing hive equipment with an "unknown" history is a risky idea. But beekeepers, big and small, do successfully buy/reuse some else's equipment. The trick is to do so only if you are confident that the equipment is not infected.

I suggest that you talk more to the potential donor. Ask him about his experiences and practices. Bring up the subject of possible contamination. See what he says. If you don't like what you hear, then graciously decline his offer. 

This is a judgement call, and you will hear lots of opinions about this. But few things in life are certain, and every day you are faced with decisions [unrelated to beekeeping] that have an element of risk. This is no different.


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## Lazer128

*Re: should i use, used beekeepin equiptment?*

Interesting info. Being a newbie I never thought about relocating a swarm. I may go pick up the boxes and start cleaning. I have until March.


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## mgolden

*Re: should i use, used beekeepin equiptment?*

Lot's of dicussion on used equipment in attached thread.

http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...s-to-100-deeps-with-frames-need-your-thoughts


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## sqkcrk

*Re: should i use, used beekeepin equiptment?*

Scrape and paint boxes inside and out. Dispose of all frames, recycling and comb that is worthwhile.


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## sqkcrk

*Re: should i use, used beekeepin equiptment?*



Daniel Y said:


> If this same person called you about a swarm or a trap out. Would you go take the bees? For many the answer is an unquestionable yes. Yet you would refuse the box he has setting behind his shed to carry them home in. And this is Why? You will take all the comb etc from a cut out with no regard to what you are dragging home.


Swarms are not a good way to get AFB, generally speaking. Trapouts, I don't know. I guess if the colony in the wall is diseased then the trapped out bees would be a vector for the disease. One can inspect cut out comb to see if AFB is present. Whereas, old dry comb is difficult to see AFB in. If one knows what AFB scale looks like and how to look for it, one may see it. Otherwise, it's a toss up. And easily avoided by destroying/disposing/recycling the combs.

I thought we were talking equipment here, not colonies anyway. I don't see why you brought bees into the equation. I don't see them as necassarily equal.


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## AmericasBeekeeper

*Re: should i use, used beekeepin equiptment?*

Welcome Pam!


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## New Ky Beekeeper

*Re: should i use, used beekeepin equiptment?*

I would take all the equipment. Bleach out the boxes, bottoms & tops, save the wax and Bruno the rest......


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## New Ky Beekeeper

*Re: should i use, used beekeepin equiptment?*



Lazer128 said:


> Interesting info. Being a newbie I never thought about relocating a swarm. I may go pick up the boxes and start cleaning. I have until March.


If you have that much time, freeze all the equipment 48 hours to kill any eggs or worms that may be hidden. Then clean!


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## Jim 134

*Re: should i use, used beekeepin equiptment?*



New Ky Beekeeper said:


> I would take all the equipment. Bleach out the boxes, bottoms & tops, save the wax and Bruno the rest......


:lookout: Bleach will not kill AFB spores 




BEE HAPPY Jim 134


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## Jim 134

*Re: should i use, used beekeepin equiptment?*



sqkcrk said:


> Swarms are not a good way to get AFB, generally speaking. Trapouts, I don't know. I guess if the colony in the wall is diseased then the trapped out bees would be a vector for the disease. One can inspect cut out comb to see if AFB is present. Whereas, old dry comb is difficult to see AFB in. If one knows what AFB scale looks like and how to look for it, one may see it. Otherwise, it's a toss up. And easily avoided by destroying/disposing/recycling the combs.
> 
> I thought we were talking equipment here, not colonies anyway. I don't see why you brought bees into the equation. I don't see them as necassarily equal.



IHHO Just t: Like a lot of another posts on Beesource.


BEE HAPPY Jim 134


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## Steven Tervort

*Re: should i use, used beekeepin equiptment?*

They are free. I would take them. I have not had any diseases that would cause me to run away from used equipment(Knock on Wood). Those telling you NOT to take them may have had first hand experience and their worry is probably valid. However, I think the odds are relatively low(inexperienced opinion), they are free boxes, I would take the risk and use them--But that's just me.


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## Daniel Y

*Re: should i use, used beekeepin equiptment?*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_foulbrood

Selected from the link above in the section. Treatment

Dipping the hive parts in hot paraffin wax or a 3% sodium hypochlorite solution (bleach) also renders the AFB spores innocuous.

Other treatments include.
Complete burning of the hive (Required by many states)

burning the frames and comb and thoroughly flame scorching the interior of the hive body, bottom board and covers

sufficiently lengthy exposure to an atmosphere of ethylene oxide gas.


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## samoadc

pamarrero said:


> there is a gentleman who wants to give me his used bee equiptment cause he no longer wants to do it , I dont want to sound ungreatfull but is this a good idea , his stuff has been sitting for about 5 years and has some condition problems but i am sure i can salvage a hive or 2 out of it .
> 
> he is verry nice and has offered me many boxes with frames both drawn and undrawn some with foundation and some not , all very sun bleached and used heavely , any ideas ?


Talk to the guy and ask about his bees and diseases in the past and what he did if he ever did have American Foulbrood Etc. Look for the signs of disease,particularly any scales or signs of old dead bees and try to figure out how the former bees were doing. Why no bees living in the hives now? I believe the inside of hive boxes shoulld not be painted because sometimes anyway bees prefer to remove the paint and that must take a lot of work. I live in Las Vegas and would appreciate having the opportunity to use some used bee boxes, etc. Years ago I use to make a medicine patty out of lard and some antibiotic that seemed to work very well for me and I never did have to burn a hive box as the state of Montana required at the time. My problem was that I went up to 75 hives before selling the bees and I found my most enjoyable hobby no longer fun but rather plain old work. I appreciate all of the comments here. Good luck. I now have one hive of bees in a strong 35 or so gallon cardboard drum and due to inability do get the honey out without tearing every comb apart I just leave them alone. Someday I will make a hive of some sort and try to have at least two or three.


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## Beregondo

It truly does depend on your tolerance for risk.
American Foul Brood certainly will stay with the equipment, and the spores be viable for decades after infection.

And the traditional control for AFB is burning hives that are infected. So if it is infected, you'll lose the boxes and all the bees in them.

That said, most bee colonies don't have AFB.
That means the equipment _probably_ isn't infected.
Is the savings the free equipment gets you worth the risk to _you?_.


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## Jim 134

*Re: should i use, used beekeepin equiptment?*



Daniel Y said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_foulbrood
> 
> Selected from the link above in the section. Treatment
> 
> Dipping the hive parts in hot paraffin wax or a 3% sodium hypochlorite solution (bleach) also renders the AFB spores innocuous.
> 
> Other treatments include.
> Complete burning of the hive (Required by many states)
> 
> burning the frames and comb and thoroughly flame scorching the interior of the hive body, bottom board and covers
> 
> sufficiently lengthy exposure to an atmosphere of ethylene oxide gas.


I would like to know that the Bee Research Laboratory say about 
(to kill AFB) 

1 Dipping the hive parts in hot paraffin wax 

2 3% sodium hypochlorite solution (bleach)

3 flame scorching

4 atmosphere of ethylene oxide gas 

You can contact: USDA Beltsville Bee Research Laboratory and see what thier tell you 
Bee Research is located at: 
10300 BALTIMORE AVENUE 
BLDG. 476, RM. 100, BARC-EAST Beltsville, MD 20705 USA


http://www.ars.usda.gov/main/site_main.htm?modecode=12-45-33-00

And yes I do know what the Bee Research Laboratory told me about AFB spores (in 2011)


BEE HAPPY Jim 134


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## Lazer128

*Re: should i use, used beekeepin equiptment?*

Wonder if the original poster (Pam?) knows the discussion that has followed their post? lol I have learned a lot about this subject and considering I am only going to have two boxes this spring and need all the good luck I can get......I'm going with all new equipment. Thanks for the schooling!


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## Daniel Y

*Re: should i use, used beekeepin equiptment?*

Jim, ethylene oxide gas is used to sterilize surgical instruments that cannot tolerate Autoclaves. Probably not a solution that the typical beekeeper is going to use regardless.

You can contact anyone you want. I am not concerned about it. Or you could just share what you where told last year. Or did you already?

I went to your link and the search function does not find anything on American Foul Brood or American Foulbrood. Did a further search to find the home page for Beltsville Bee Research Laboratory and of the two search links they have on that page one gets a 404 error page the other does not function. Do you have any links that actually lead to information?

I once again did a google search for American Foul Brood and found this from the USDA
http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/ar/archive/jul07/bee0707.htm
Titled: Helping Beekeepers Beat American Foulbrood
Selected quotes from the above.

Since the 1950s, the only treatment approved for use in the United States to prevent AFB has been the antibiotic oxytetracycline (OTC), sold under the brand name “Terramycin.” But there have been several reports over the past few years of loss of effectiveness of OTC.

In addition. Fortunately, ARS scientists at Beltsville, Maryland, have recently shepherded approval by the Food and Drug Administration of a new antibiotic against AFB called “tylosin.”

Note the above is prevention not cure. as to infected hives the article begins with.

"Infected bee colonies must be burned, and that is costly for beekeepers."

Nothing that has not been repeated many times over in this group. So the disease is well known to be infectious and predominant. It is also known to be in both the brood and the honey. It is consistent that member of this group will be warned about AFB in regard to used equipment. yet I seldom see mention of it in buying populated equipment. capturing bees along with comb and honey etc. This renders the concern of used equipment pointless. If AFB can be transferred to existing hive. it must be considered in respect to anything that can transfer it. Otherwise don't bother.


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## Daniel Y

From another source.
Spread between colonies: AFB spores can be spread from
diseased to healthy colony by:
• Transferring brood combs from one colony to another.
• Feeding honey or pollen from infected colonies.
• Bees robbing honey from infected hives.
• Drifting bees.
• Installing packaged bees from colonies infected with the
disease.
• Artificial swarms from infected colonies.
• Swarms issuing from an infected hive may carry spores with
them.
• The introduction of queen bees from infected colonies.
• Purchasing or using contaminated beehives and equipment.
• Unsterilized tools may also be a source of contamination.

How many of these methods of transfer are dealt with in current recommended bee management methods?


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## sqkcrk

All of them DanielY. All of them are dealt with in current bee management methods. They may not all be mentioned every time this comes up, but they do get addressed.

That list is also in order of probability, if that's the right way to say it. Starting at the top w/ the highest degree of chance of transfering the disease. One way of transfering comb from one colony to another is through buying used equipment, the subject of this THread.

Looking the list over again I see that buying used equipment is low on the list. I would disagree w/ its ranking that low on the list.

Caution is what is reccomended above all. Knowldge and experience are warranted. Learn how to identify the disease and arm yourself w/ knowldge. That is the key to avoiding infection and transfer.


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## sqkcrk

*Re: should i use, used beekeepin equiptment?*



Daniel Y said:


> It is consistent that member of this group will be warned about AFB in regard to used equipment. yet I seldom see mention of it in buying populated equipment. capturing bees along with comb and honey etc. This renders the concern of used equipment pointless. If AFB can be transferred to existing hive. it must be considered in respect to anything that can transfer it. Otherwise don't bother.


Otherwise don't bother what?

There are a number of ways in which AFB can be transfered. "Transfering brood combs from one colony to another." being of greatest possibility of transfering of infected equipment. Swarms have a low probability of AFB infection.


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## Daniel Y

*Re: should i use, used beekeepin equiptment?*

"Don't Bother"
I disagree with your previous statement about worry about the most probable first. Spreading of disease is spreading of disease. and infected hive tool only takes one to infect every hive in your colony. Think of surgery. do you want doctors to only be concerned with the most common forms of infection?

Yes I see other precautions mentioned. but not to the same degree an fervor as I see used equipment get addressed. In truth I would like to see any method it might get transferred addressed as readily.

Somebody captures a swarm and everyone says congrats. But I don't always see them recommend the colony be kept somewhere isolated. or that it be inspected. But if that same person said they where getting a used hive to put them in. beekeepers woudl be all over that.

So be on guard in one respect and not in another. and that is where the don't bother comes from.


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## sqkcrk

*Re: should i use, used beekeepin equiptment?*

A. I strongly disagree w/ your generalization about hive tools. Working beehives and cutting open a human's body are greatly different.
B.How can one maintain the same degree of concern about everything having to do w/ the possibility of infection and the handling of bees and equipment? Do you seriously see hive tool cleanliness and transfer of brood frames as having the same degree of possiblly transfering AFB from one colony to another?

One is more highly likely to transfer disease from one colony to another by moving frames from one brood nest to another than from collecting a swarm, especially if that swarm is installed in a hive w/ foundation. Period.

Your "don't bother" is too fatalistic. No one is advocating blindly doing one thing or another. Quastions have been asked and answered about this subject adnosium. Look it up. All sorts of caution are recommended in all sorts of cases. Not everything is as faital as everything else.

Maybe you should stay at home this week rather than going to work. You might get struck by an engine falling off of a jet liner.


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## Rader Sidetrack

*Re: should i use, used beekeepin equiptment?*



sqkcrk said:


> Maybe you should stay at home this week rather than going to work. You might get struck by an engine falling off of a jet liner.


http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/29/travel/canada-airplane-debris/index.html



> A malfunctioning jet engine on an Air Canada flight causedburning hot debris to fall to the ground after takeoff, an official with Canada's Transportation Safety Board said Tuesday.
> The incident Monday, which involved Air Canada Flight 001 bound for Tokyo from Toronto with 318 passengers and 16 crew members aboard, damaged vehicles on the ground and forced the Boeing 777 to return to Toronto


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## sqkcrk

*Re: should i use, used beekeepin equiptment?*

When I was growing up, 10 miles from Andrews Airforce Base, just outside of Washington,DC, where Airforce One lands, a jet engine fell from a plane on take off and hit a car on the perimiter road around the base. How I ever survived living that close to such possible destruction I don't know.


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## Jim 134

*Re: should i use, used beekeepin equiptment?*

AFB Can be treated by radiation

http://massbee.org/component/content/article/8-news-item/26-2013-afb-program


BEE HAPPY Jim 134


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## sqkcrk

*Re: should i use, used beekeepin equiptment?*

Yes Jim, it can. But, it is not accessible or affordable for most of those who will encounter AFB. Maybe you were simply letting those who didn't know that such as "treatment" is possible and effective.

W/ all of the worry about AFB transfer via hivetool, why hasn't someone advocated irradiation of hive tools? Our State Extension Bee Expert spoke about autoclaving hive tools one time, or carrying a dozen or so, as Inspectors, and baking them in the oven every evening after work to destroy any possibilities of spore spread. Coulda added a number of hours to my paycheck doing that I guess.


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## Jim 134

*Re: should i use, used beekeepin equiptment?*

Mark...
I will only irradiation if I have comb and honey if no comb I would burn at ALL




BEE HAPPY Jim 134


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## Jim 134

*Re: should i use, used beekeepin equiptment?*



Daniel Y said:


> Jim, is ethylene oxide gas used to sterilize surgical instruments that cannot tolerate Autoclaves. Probably not a solution that the typical beekeeper is going to use regardless.
> You can contact anyone you want. I am not concerned about it. Or you could just share what you where told last year. Or did you already?
> 
> I went to your link and the search function does not find anything on American Foul Brood or American Foulbrood. Did a further search to find the home page for Beltsville Bee Research Laboratory and of the two search links they have on that page one gets a 404 error page the other does not function. Do you have any links that actually lead to information?
> 
> I once again did a google search for American Foul Brood and found this from the USDA
> http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/ar/archive/jul07/bee0707.htm
> Titled: Helping Beekeepers Beat American Foulbrood
> Selected quotes from the above.
> 
> Since the 1950s, the only treatment approved for use in the United States to prevent AFB has been the antibiotic oxytetracycline (OTC), sold under the brand name “Terramycin.” But there have been several reports over the past few years of loss of effectiveness of OTC.
> 
> In addition. Fortunately, ARS scientists at Beltsville, Maryland, have recently shepherded approval by the Food and Drug Administration of a new antibiotic against AFB called “tylosin.”
> 
> Note the above is prevention not cure. as to infected hives the article begins with.
> 
> "Infected bee colonies must be burned, and that is costly for beekeepers."
> 
> Nothing that has not been repeated many times over in this group. So the disease is well known to be infectious and predominant. It is also known to be in both the brood and the honey. It is consistent that member of this group will be warned about AFB in regard to used equipment. yet I seldom see mention of it in buying populated equipment. capturing bees along with comb and honey etc. This renders the concern of used equipment pointless. If AFB can be transferred to existing hive. it must be considered in respect to anything that can transfer it. Otherwise don't bother.


Will ethylene oxide gas work 

1.On the wood under the aluminum cover of a (Telescoping Cover) ??

2,wax comb ??

3.Honey in the comb?? 

4.And in your lists you miss ALL the honey house equipment :scratch:
Or are you put this in lasts places 
• Unsterilized tools may also be a source of contamination.




BEE HAPPY Jim 134


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## Daniel Y

*Re: should i use, used beekeepin equiptment?*

Jim, I don't see the cover or the honey house on the list. You can't argue against what is on the list so you just have to make up one to argue about. You are the one saying the cover and the honey house are an issue. so what have your found as to how to manage it?

I didn't put those thing on my list because I don't think they are an issue. you do. so post the sources for that information.


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## sqkcrk

*Re: should i use, used beekeepin equiptment?*



Jim 134 said:


> Mark...
> I will only irradiation if I have comb and honey if no comb I would burn at ALL
> BEE HAPPY Jim 134


Why, when scorching supers works so well? Seems wasteful to me.


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## Jim 134

*Re: should i use, used beekeepin equiptment?*



sqkcrk said:


> Why, when scorching supers works so well? Seems wasteful to me.


 IMHO Not worth the $6.50 a box to my



BEE HAPPY Jim 134


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## westernbeekeeper

*Re: should i use, used beekeepin equiptment?*

Jim, where do you get your boxes???


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## westernbeekeeper

*Re: should i use, used beekeepin equiptment?*



sqkcrk said:


> Why, when scorching supers works so well? Seems wasteful to me.


Right on. I have used old supers that I scorched and it had worked well in the past. Why waste the money? It costs me less than a buck to scorch a box.


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## Jim 134

*Re: should i use, used beekeepin equiptment?*



westernbeekeeper said:


> Jim, where do you get your boxes???


IMHO If you live in New England their is only one place to buy woodware Humble Abodes in ME.

http://www.humbleabodesinc.com/


BEE HAPPY Jim 134


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## westernbeekeeper

*Re: should i use, used beekeepin equiptment?*

Yeah, Western Bee Supply is the same to me as Humble Abodes is to you. Price Comparison:

Commercial:
-------- HA ----- WBS
Deep - $12.00 -- $10.05
Medium $7.95 --- $7.05

Budget:
--------- HA ---- WBS
Deep -- $9.35 -- $8.70
Medium $6.50 -- $5.95

When I order (from WBS), it takes 2 days to arrive. The shipping is the downside; but it is still low, though.


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## pamarrero

*Re: should i use, used beekeepin equiptment?*

I do know and have read each post .... thanks to all that helped me along the discussion was great and the info was wonderful 
yhe first pic is what I started with and after alot of work I am half way done on the second pic


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## pamarrero

*Re: should i use, used beekeepin equiptment?*

What about scorching the insides with a weed burner that uses propane


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## sqkcrk

*Re: should i use, used beekeepin equiptment?*

Works


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## jdmidwest

*Re: should i use, used beekeepin equiptment?*

Just go buy some boards from Lowes and make your own. More fun and risk free.


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## EastSideBuzz

pamarrero said:


> there is a gentleman who wants to give me his used bee equiptment cause he no longer wants to do it


Sounds like some of the best priced equipment you will ever get. Give him some honey next year so you can even the score. Bleach and freeze accordingly.


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## sqkcrk

*Re: should i use, used beekeepin equiptment?*



jdmidwest said:


> Just go buy some boards from Lowes and make your own. More fun and risk free.


Risk free? Never been bit by a table saw I guess.


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## jdmidwest

*Re: should i use, used beekeepin equiptment?*



sqkcrk said:


> Risk free? Never been bit by a table saw I guess.


Nope. Still got all my original fingers and toes.


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## westernbeekeeper

*Re: should i use, used beekeepin equiptment?*



sqkcrk said:


> Risk free? Never been bit by a table saw I guess.


Well said!


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