# what makes a varietal honey varietal?



## markalbob (Jan 31, 2007)

I know, the simple answer is that clover honey is made with clover, etc., but how does one determine this? As an example, how does one determine they have clover honey, and not honey from the wildflowers also in bloom at the same time, or basswood? Clearly bees have preferences, and timing can help rule out many sourrces, but if you have a hive in 2 acres of clover surrounded by soybeans, etc., how much honey is clover? How does one determine that the forage is in fact a majority of anything, and how much space of a given flower is required to supply a hive so you can reasonably say the honey is from anything in particular? 10 acres? 50?


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## buz (Dec 8, 2005)

WoW MarkalB.


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## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

> As an example, how does one determine they have 
> clover honey, and not honey from the wildflowers 
> also in bloom at the same time, or basswood? 

Two ways - timing of super deployment and harvest
to match specific blooms, and proximity to one
bloom versus another.

This works less well when one has two overlapping
strong blooms, so your questions illustrate a
structural problem that has no single answer for
all locations.

> if you have a hive in 2 acres of clover 
> surrounded by soybeans, etc., how much honey is 
> clover? 

You could get out a microscope and count pollen
grains, but clover versus soybean honey should
be easy enough to differentiate by taste alone. 

I think that there is quite a bit of
variation in the honey labeled as "clover honey",
to the point that "wildflower" and "clover" may
be synonyms to many beekeepers and packers.


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## markalbob (Jan 31, 2007)

Ok, example time: I have a relative with a field of sunflowers--like 5 acres of solid sunflower each year for wildlife feed. This is in the middle of meadows and fields all around. If I put a super on as the sunflowers started blooming, and the hive was adjacent to the sunflowers, would this likely be pure enough to consider "sunflower honey"?

If not, because there just isn't enough nectar in only 5 acres? Trying to figure how this works....


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## riverrat (Jun 3, 2006)

if the sunflowers are wild sunflowers they probably wont yield much honey. they will produce a lot of pollen sunflowers that are grown commercially for there seeds will usually produce a honey crop it will be dark and crystalize quickly


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## honeyman46408 (Feb 14, 2003)

"Ok, example time: I have a relative with a field of sunflowers--like 5 acres of solid sunflower"

If the bees fly 1/2 mile they cover 540 acers so it is hard to say it is ------ honey so I belive a lot is in the LABEL give them what they want


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## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

It is worse than you might think - different
blooms produce maximum nectar at different times 
of the day, so while the bees may be foraging on
the sunflowers at one point, the hive will "turn 
on a dime" and start foraging on something else
that starts producing more (or higher sugar-content)
nectar a few hours later, even if the other blooms
are much further away.


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## markalbob (Jan 31, 2007)

So, for me, I can safely assume it will be a "wildflower blend", especially with woods and wildflower prarie restoration nearby....still doesn't answer my question then of how someone ascertains they have "cranberry" or "Blackberry" honey--what sort of monocultured space are these folks ranging their bees on?


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## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

". . . if you have a hive in 2 acres of clover surrounded by soybeans, etc., how much honey is clover?" -Markalbob

All of it, probably. Can you really taste a difference between "clover" honey and "soybean" honey? How about "sweetclover" honey and "alfalfa" honey?

Most beekeepers are claiming varietal honeys if they think one type predominates. For example, around here most of the honey is very light and mild flavored, and gets sold as "clover honey." Does it all come from clover? No. It comes from clovers and alfalfa (possibly) and soybeans and wildflowers, but even consumers regard it as "clover" honey because it's light and mild-flavored.

If you really want to know variety, Jim's right: you have to examine pollen grains and look for the predominant species in the honey.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

Not much new to add, but I use Jim's method of timing of super deployment and harvest to match specific blooms. I try to identify major constituents in my spring honey crop by observing bees foraging and correlating it with honey stores to get a good guess for what nectar types are in my honey. For myself, the springtime honey usually contains a variety of tree flower nectars (tulip poplar, holly, and black locus). Last year it was quite obvious that it was mostly tulip poplar. How did I know this? Well, I had no honey stored until the tulip poplar bloomed and then within a few weeks storage tapered off. My summer crop leaves no doubt due to the lack of alternate sources and the abundance of cotton blooming. Fall can be a mixed bag, but if you've ever tasted goldenrod honey you'll have little doubt as to what's in your supers. When in doubt, taste someone else's sunflower honey, if yours is similar then you've probably got sunflower honey.


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## John Russell (Aug 8, 2003)

What we do it track the bloom, and by putting fresh supers on at 5% bloom until the petal drop we ensure that most of the nectar is what we intend. There will always be adulteration due to nectar secretion times and some weather conditions but the kind of honey printed on the label is always indicating the chief nectar source only and to the best of the beekeepers knowledge. Up here, it's known **** well that most nectar sources in heavy agriculture areas are alfalfa and canola, and it's all labeled Clover, because thats what the public want. No one plants clover anymore and what grows in the ditch wont cover the tonnage produced. Most distinctive nectar sources have distinctive tastes and colors. Sunflower honey is golden and almost radiant yellow, the taste being stronger than white honeys but plesent and not overly powerful. The best part about separating your nectar flows is that you then have an opertunity to sell a variety of honeys to your customer base. Quite a money maker when you add in a little added value packaging.

John Russell
honeyb.ca


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## wayacoyote (Nov 3, 2003)

Jim,
I've wanted to get into identifying pollen grains for various reasons: 
1. to identify when plants are in bloom by sampling the colonies
2. identifying varietal honey
3. conducting activities with my Environmental Education students, and my homeschool student
etc....

Do you know of a good, amature level, pollen ID guide?

Waya


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## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

I've seen several "color guides", which seem
pretty much useless, as there's just a lot
of yellow pollen out there. I've never understood
how color alone would ID pollen, so if anyone 
uses one of these, I'd love to hear how the
scheme is supposed to work.

I've also seen several books that had microphotographs of
pollen grains, but they were very expensive books,
and I never bought any of them. Maybe Larry Connor
can find you a used copy of one for cheap, as he has
found me affordable copies of a number of "rare" or
"expensive" books in less-than collector condition.

But here's something that is online for free:
http://www-saps.plantsci.cam.ac.uk/pollen/index.htm 

I've looked at pollen under a microscope, and it
has given me nothing but eyestrain. Easier to
just go wander around and see what is blooming.
I think what the world needs is a guide that
is organized by the appearance of the grains, much
like the better field guides to birds.

[ February 18, 2007, 07:34 AM: Message edited by: Jim Fischer ]


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## wayacoyote (Nov 3, 2003)

Jim,
I've been thinking the same thing.


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