# So this is a push-in cage, huh?



## Kazzandra (Jul 7, 2010)

Followed Michael Bush's instructions ( http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfaqs.htm#pushincage 
) to make a push-in cage for introducing my random queen to my Russian gals today.  Thanks so much for the instructions!

I went to Lowe's to pick up some #8 hardware cloth in the garden section. The smallest they had was 1/4. So I was at a loss at what to do. I went to the window screen area just in case, and there they had gutter screening. Measured it-- 8 wires to an inch. It _seems_ this is it and it should do the trick.

What do you all think? I'll pull a frame of capped cells from my sole queenright hive (that will be the fourth one I've taken... Bless them) and manual release the queen from the cage there. One thing that bugs me is that I saw these frames a few days ago, and they were packed from stem to stern with eggs-- no honey on the tops of the frames-- they have a whole box right above them they must be using. No matter how much I try to encourage them to build into three mediums, that queen only wants to lay in two. But she's a good one!!! Anyway, I'm concerned I won'y have emerging brood, _honey_, and open cells. Could I perhaps spray the comb down with sugar water or drip some of their honey down there?

Something happened to the last one I introduced to this 16 frame split-- I suspect perhaps the virgin in the next hive challenged her and won. Most of the bees in there hatched from a frame of donated capped brood, and from all of the drone cells that my former drone-laying queen laid for me.  But the bees in the split are sweet as sugar, even though there was no brood at all. I went through the hive three times to make sure. Even moved their hive on them to check to stay away from the cranky girls next door. 

Let you know how this one goes. I plan to check everyone for queenrightedness with the caged queen for the lulz, and video that for my future reference.


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

Was it supposed to be that big? I thought it was a little push in cage. Why not just put her in a normal shipping cage and leave her for a few days?


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## Kazzandra (Jul 7, 2010)

Michael Bush said:


> Most people make these about 4 inches square (10 cm). I prefer to make them bigger. The larger they are the easier it is to get some honey (so she doesn't starve) some open cells (so she has a place to lay) and some emerging brood (so she has attendants). I like mine about 5 by 10 inches (12.5cm by 25cm).


I'm going to agree with him on that.

Why not leave her in a normal shipping cage? Because I already lost one queen introduced in this way. Why would I do it again? Especially if the near-by virgin came in and killed her. I want her to get to laying-- full out pheromone-- before she encounters any bees.

Honestly, other than it being slightly more inconvenient, why would you risk a 30 or more dollar queen doing this any other way, if this is the best practice?

Also, should I reduce the split down to one box for queen introduction? Or is two okay? Seems it would be jam-packed with one box.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

I've never used a push in that large. One concern I have is that it may be difficult to get it securely pushed in at every point on the perimeter. If you fail in completely securing it then you'll loose this queen. I use smaller ones and have had no problems. Although I apprecate the logic of MB's reasoning above, it maybe overkill (no pun intended).


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## Kazzandra (Jul 7, 2010)

Hmmm. How about I half the length-- five by five? Or just take the capped brood away from the hive for a few minutes and make sure the perimeter is secured?
Thanks for the responses, by the way.


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## Kazzandra (Jul 7, 2010)

Here's what I ended up doing:

















I didn't feel safe about the edges, so I jammed burr comb all around the weak edges where I had to remove drone brood. Open, just emerging, and honey...


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## tommyt (Aug 7, 2010)

Hold that cage on/in with rubber bands 
Good luck 

Tommyt


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

I used to make them about 4"X3"X3/4"-1" deep with a candy hallway exit. I never worried about honey for the queens, I don't think they feed themselves, do they?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I don't think they feed themselves, do they? 

They can if they have to. They have no attendants when I put them in.


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## Kazzandra (Jul 7, 2010)

Rubberbands-- D'oh! Well, next time, then... I don't want to disturb them right now to put on some rubber bands-- it's pretty well in there with the troughs I created removing drone brood and the wax jammed in there. Or should I go rubber band it now? Choices, choices... I might go do that. It would be a good time to see if they're trying to burrow in and to shore it up, if they are.

I let her have two of her five attendants, and you can see in the pictures some emerged bees wondering where the heck they are. I knew that queens are tougher than people give them credit for (yes, they can feed themselves), but thought the emerging bees might appreciate some orientation from them. XD


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## Kazzandra (Jul 7, 2010)

Okay, just got back from putting rubberbands on both ends. The queen is still alive and well, and let's just say-- she's not alone now! I'm not sure if they found a way in but have her accepted or if there were truly that many emerging. They had pulled out a piece of the burr comb, at least, and when panicking about my interference, no one seemed to be able to get out.

I rubberbanded on too tight and no one could move while I tried adjusting it with gloves on-- I had already had a rogue sting at my glove when I was getting set up behind the hive, but probably not the split's gal. The queen got trapped, but not pinched. Anyway, they could have offed her at that point, but instead they acted really panicked-- the ones on the outside of the cage, too. No stinging or biting. Glad I thought to look before I slid it back in! Took that band off, secured only the two edges, squeezed the cage a little to pop it back out, and slid the frame back in with appropriate bee space from the next comb to the cage. No aggression during all of this, but lots of nervousness and panic. Didn't use smoke so as to interfere as little as possible, so I crushed four on the way out-- poor girls.


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## Kazzandra (Jul 7, 2010)

UPDATE:
No sign of a queen in the parent hive or the split. The push-in cage had no queen in it-- they had ate around the bottom. Took the cage off and quickly looked through surrounding drawn comb-- no queen. No queen. No queen....
I have stole four frames of eggs from my single queenright hive. I don't know if I can steal more. 
Oddly enough, the parent hive, which had queen cells and was supposed to requeen itself did not draw an queen cells on the larva I gave them. They still have a few larva just about to be capped, so that confirms that some of it was one day old when I put it in there. But there is nothing-- the hive is so empty, I accidentally picked up the whole hive off the bottom board. They had a whole box of honey-- now they have one frame put together. 
Going to contact my supplier and see what he says to do...


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## TattooedBeek (Aug 20, 2010)

Any eggs?


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## Kazzandra (Jul 7, 2010)

Didn't even see any in the push-in cage area. They either ate them or she never laid, for whatever reason.


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## TattooedBeek (Aug 20, 2010)

That sux. Hopefully you find a solution soon. I know I am having some issues with my first hive...it's not a great feeling for sure to see things not right but not knowing exactly what to do.


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## fish_stix (May 17, 2009)

Kazzandra; before you do anything else, sit down and have a cool one and wait a few days. That queen is probably in the hive. Give them a few days and check for eggs then close them up and stay out of the hive for 1 month. Leave the bees alone and let them do what they do best; Survive! BTW, virgins don't come from another hive to kill off queens. Very rarely they will come back from a mating flight and go to the wrong hive but they're not bounty hunters out looking to kill off other queens.


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## Kazzandra (Jul 7, 2010)

Good advice, unfortunately. I've just had to come to accept that it's probable that I'll lose the parent hive and the split in the winter. I _did_ wait a month after I saw queen cells in that parent hive, and was rewarded with nothing. Maybe there's a queen in the split of which I am unaware that I accidentally introduced with the frames, but she should be laying by now-- queen cells were capped and papery on 07/25.

If just either hive would have a laying queen, I would gladly recombine.


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## tommyt (Aug 7, 2010)

> queen cells were capped and papery on 07/25


Go too MBush page and see his time table for the above
your rushing it! IMHO its still a little early for laying Queen


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>queen cells were capped and papery on 07/25.

Add two days to emergence, and three weeks on the outside for getting mated and laying and you're up to the day before yesterday...


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## Kazzandra (Jul 7, 2010)

Yes, I was thinking it would be the 14th, but I guess I _am_ rushing it. I could have a lulzy "back when I was a first year beekeeper story to regale my friends with in a few years. That's what I'm hoping for, anyway. It's amazing, though, how much a hive declines when they are queenless-- I hope it's understandable why I'm so worried for them. No laying workers, at least, because I keep giving them brood. Drenched everyone with HBH drench as I was closing up and fed them a gallon a hive last night in the rain. Well, get to it, gals! And you hundreds and hundreds of drones I have-- stop eating so dang much. XD If anyone wants some drones, give me an address, and I'll send some straight away. XD


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