# Mountain Camp



## Duncan151 (Aug 3, 2013)

Evening, If I want to try putting dry sugar on my hives this winter, how much do you use in pounds, or cups, or handfuls? Thank you!


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

Depends on what they need. I'm planning on four or five pounds on each hive on top of newspaper over the top frames, inside a feeder rim.

We've had trouble with fairly large hives using up all their stores early -- have to feed them to keep them going for a month or so until the spring flow starts, but that huge hive (a full deep of bees, for instance) makes a huge surplus of honey.

If they do run out of stores and cluster under the sugar, be prepared for them to brood up in that comb, don't use a honey super if you don't want brood in it....

Peter


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## charmd2 (May 25, 2008)

I put 25 lbs on every hive if I think they need it or not in a medium super. I pay super close attention in late Feburary to start putting frames in it as necessary. Leaving as little empty space as possible. I have yet to have burr comb built, but I am super attentive.


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## GaryG74 (Apr 9, 2014)

Last year, I used 5 pounds per hive and had sugar left in most hives in February, but that's way further south. I checked my hives (just popped the top over the feeder rim to see how much sugar was left) on warmer days, when it was around 50F. I probably would have done it on colder, sunny, windless days if I thought they were running low. In my opinion it's better to add to much and have some left over than not add enough. Anything left over can be used in syrup later in the spring.
I put 5 pounds of sugar in a zip lock bag with 1 1/4 cup of water and mixed it until it was the consistency of oatmeal, cut the side off the bag, and laid it on top of the frames. It will harden up in a couple of days. The bees don't haul it out of the hive like they sometimes will dry sugar. Later in the spring some hives started doing that but most ate it all.


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

I must say, I'm boggled at the thought of Mountain Camping 25 lbs of sugar per hive. Surely you mean 25 lbs over the course of a winter, and not all at once? I buy my syrup-making sugar in 25 lb sacks and that's a lot of sugar, by volume, not only by weight. 

Enj.


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## capitalbeesupply (Jul 28, 2013)

We typically start with 4 lbs and add if needed throughout the winter. We slightly dampen the sugar, add in some HBH and for the first batch place it on a piece of wax paper on top of a queen excluder. Photo shows it better. The issue we see with piling a lot on instead of doing it a few times throughout the winter is that sugar that drops into cells can result in the larvae dying. Many of our colonies start rearing brood right after Christmas and we are in southern Wisconsin








Rich
Capital Bee Supply
Madison, WI




Duncan151 said:


> Evening, If I want to try putting dry sugar on my hives this winter, how much do you use in pounds, or cups, or handfuls? Thank you!


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## Duncan151 (Aug 3, 2013)

Thank you everyone! This gives me a great place to start from, and several good ideas as well!!!!


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## charmd2 (May 25, 2008)

No, I mean a 25 lb bag of sugar. Frequently, in spring they will eat through it regardless of how much honey I leave them.


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## Estell Tabor (Aug 5, 2014)

I plan on putting a 3/4" layer on all my hives. The feeder rims I made are 3/4". The sugar absorbs moisture and is good insurance. As GaryG74 mentioned you can always make syrup with the leftovers in the spring.


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## DanielD (Jul 21, 2012)

charmd2 said:


> No, I mean a 25 lb bag of sugar. Frequently, in spring they will eat through it regardless of how much honey I leave them.


That does sound like a lot, especially if they don't seem to need it, as you stated. They may be storing some of the sugar.


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## lharder (Mar 21, 2015)

I have made 1 1/2 inch feeding rims and will put about that much dry sugar on my hives, especially nucs. Gives a little piece of mind, absorbs some water and easy to check.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Why not have that 25lbs stored as syrup in the fall?


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

Bees will carry your money (dry sugar) out as trash.

Side by side comparison;

http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...ith-a-3-year-old-Photos&p=1226929#post1226929


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Ian said:


> Why not have that 25lbs stored as syrup in the fall?


Gets my vote.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

FlowerPlanter said:


> Bees will carry your money (dry sugar) out as trash.


Plus, honey is more readily accessible and convertible to energy when the bees need it. 
This whole mountain camp thing has taken on an undeserved life of its own...in my opinion.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Ian said:


> Why not have that 25lbs stored as syrup in the fall?


I agree. I have had a few colonies that used a bit of the sugar but many did not even come up to get it. It can be a nuisance to get rid of in the spring when they are starting to carry it out for trash. It does fall down into cells. Maybe wetting it well would help in that regard.

I think if the colony has adequate weight of capped stores there is no need of it. If they are definitely light on stores and perhaps of Italian breeding then it may be necessary.
Perhaps some management systems insure that the cluster is down deep and others start winter closer to the top.

Just food for thought; If hives are insulated will the bees have less tendency to go up seeking heat? Does mite load influence food consumption?

My hives are all over 130 lbs except for one triple 5 frame deep and one three deep ten frame. They are going into winter with no top feed this year for a test. Things are set up to easily slip in sugar and pollen pattie in March though if they are up top begging!


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## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

DanielD said:


> That does sound like a lot, especially if they don't seem to need it, as you stated. They may be storing some of the sugar.


It wouldn't matter if they store all of it. They will still have it. Keep some over the broodnest though. When it is really cold they won't leave the cluster sideways. They will go up a little bit.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

How much to me is how much to bring them up to weight. Preferably none. Honey is best. But if they are 50 pounds light I might give them 30 pounds or so of sugar just to keep them from starving. I don't really want to absorb all the water (one theory of the Mt. Camp method). I just want to make sure they don't starve IF they are light.


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## flyin-lowe (May 15, 2014)

I have a question. I was under the impression that if the bees did not need the sugar they would haul it out of the hive. Is that the case or not? I added sugar to my hive last year but I waited until it was February and I had lifted the hive and found it to be very lite. I put 4 pounds in the first time and they took all of it. You guys that use the Mt. camp method do you add the sugar in the beginning of winter even if they are not lite? Or do you wait until you think they have used up their stores and then add the sugar. I didn't want to add some in November only to have them haul it away before they need it.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I have a question. I was under the impression that if the bees did not need the sugar they would haul it out of the hive. Is that the case or not? 

If you don't spray it to get it to clump and spray the edge to get them to recognize it as food, they will haul it all out for trash even if they need it. The house bees' job is to haul out anything that doesn't belong...

http://bushfarms.com/beesfeeding.htm#drysugar


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## Dave Burrup (Jul 22, 2008)

Do not put the sugar on as long as flying weather continues. If you do wet, hard, or not they will haul it out of the hive as garbage. It is usually Thanks giving time before I put it on. As long as they are down in the frames and have honey or syrup above them they do not need the sugar.


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## flyin-lowe (May 15, 2014)

Thanks for the info. I will likely do as I did last year. Check the hive weight later in the winter (Jan/Feb.) If the hive is really light I will dump a few pounds of sugar on it. Last year I found a day when it was above freezing and quickly opened it up, put the newspaper on and added sugar. Then a few squirts with a water bottle to moisten the edges. I figured the hive moisture would add enough to it pretty quickly.


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## shannonswyatt (May 7, 2012)

beemandan said:


> This whole mountain camp thing has taken on an undeserved life of its own...in my opinion.


Exactly. Mountain camp is what you do when you failed to prepare. The idea was a dude was going to his mountain camp and was ill prepared. He only had a bag of sugar to dump in a hive to get it through the remains of the winter. Now people think this is something you plan on doing in the winter as a matter of course. 

Don't get down on yourself if you have to go this route, we all get busy at times and fail to adequately plan. But if you think you are going to have to go the Mnt Camp method maybe you should consider feeding now and making some fondant up to put on the hives once it cools down.


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## Duncan151 (Aug 3, 2013)

shannonswyatt said:


> Exactly. Mountain camp is what you do when you failed to prepare. The idea was a dude was going to his mountain camp and was ill prepared. He only had a bag of sugar to dump in a hive to get it through the remains of the winter. Now people think this is something you plan on doing in the winter as a matter of course.
> 
> Don't get down on yourself if you have to go this route, we all get busy at times and fail to adequately plan. But if you think you are going to have to go the Mnt Camp method maybe you should consider feeding now and making some fondant up to put on the hives once it cools down.


I can understand your point, but my question is, "What is the difference between dry sugar and fondant being put on a hive?"


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## shannonswyatt (May 7, 2012)

I'm not a chemist or a cook, but my understanding is that fondant is an invert sugar. And it is soft, the bees take it quickly.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

> The idea was a dude was going to his mountain camp and was ill prepared. He only had a bag of sugar to dump in a hive to get it through the remains of the winter.

Actually "Mountain Camp" was a Beesource handle. The guy with that handle would routinely put sugar on all his hives with the intent that it would moderate the moisture and keep them from starving and provide a certain amount of stimulation as the cluster ate the sugar. It was his standard procedure and not a result of poor preparation. 

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?194620-feeding-dry-table-sugar-my-final-report
http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...ntain-Camp-Method-of-feeding-moisture-control


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

My recollection (and I think Mike palmer has mentioned this as well) is that he also did late fall syrup feeding, which likely contributed to the moisture problem that the dry sugar helps to solve (moisture absorbtion).


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

shannonswyatt said:


> Exactly. Mountain camp is what you do when you failed to prepare. The idea was a dude was going to his mountain camp and was ill prepared. He only had a bag of sugar to dump in a hive to get it through the remains of the winter. Now people think this is something you plan on doing in the winter as a matter of course.


 Oh boy. you are one who is giving this a life of it's own! where did hear that story?
i'd love to hear it.
BTW putting dry sugar on hives is not a novel idea and has been done for a long time. some have done it as a
matter of course depending upon the circumstances going forward- not as a failure to prepare.
People at this for awhile use various methods to winter their bees that aren't in 'the books' -and have success.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

"The Mountain Camp Method" is a term used for the feeding of dry sugar placed on newspaper above the brood nest of a hive which originated in beesource.com, because Mountaincamp or Mountain Camp, a persons screen name on beesource.com, wrote about the way he did it and so the name and the method became one.

Michael Johnston is his real name, I believe.

There is nothing new under the Sun. Feeding dry sugar on top of newspapers has been around for ages. I had done it for a couple of decades before the Mountain Camp name got attached to it.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Shannonswyatt has tagged a story which makes sense, for a method that to me does not make much sense. With a name Mount Camp Method and that story, feeding dry sugar over a wintering hive will be known as Mount Camp.  love it


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

oh the method makes sense and it works. the story is what makes no sense.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I no longer use the dry sugar feeding method, but when I did I used a 1 1/2 inch tall rim, laid on top of an open hive, with newspaper laid inside of it. Poured a 5 lb bag of sugar on the newspaper and installed the lid. It helped get many a story and a half hive through the Winter in SC. Sometimes most of the sugar would be gone and burr comb built underneath the lid.


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## Dave Burrup (Jul 22, 2008)

We have big shifts in our weather around here. One day it can be well below zero and the next it could be in the upper 40s or low 50s. When the weather is warm the bees cluster is loose like it is in every other area. The bees move their cluster to the south side of the hives usually to the SW corner of the hive where it is the warmest. When we have another cold continental air mass the cluster contracts against the warmer south wall. This contraction moves them out of contact with their stores. If there is honey above them they are fine because they will move up with the aid of the heat escaping from the cluster. If they have come to the top of the frames they do not have anything above them and they starve with food within a couple of inches. This often occurs with the hive nearly full of honey. The Mountain Camp method allows me to keep food directly above the cluster, and it has save around 50% of our hives. This problem becomes worse in the late winter when they start to brood up, and will not move off of the brood. I fall feed until the top deep is full of honey and syrup, and the problem still arises every year. I do not understand how proper fall preparation would solve this problem.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Dave, your analysis of how the cluster can get stranded seems to make sense: my thought is that the more the initial cluster is forced to the bottom on winter close out, the higher the percentage of stores that will be above rather than beside the cluster.
I agree with the drift to the SW corner in single wrapped hives. I wonder if higher insulation factor could keep the cluster centered better. I have so far been heavy on stores and wrapping and have not experienced the locked on brood colony loss but my son has.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

Winter weather in the Midwest can be very unpredictable. I look at dry sugar or sugar blocks as a little bit of extra insurance. As mentioned, sometimes the cluster can become stranded from stores when a cold arctic blast causes them to huddle tighter and takes them just out of reach of their stores.

I remember a few years back we had one of the mildest winters in Ohio that I can recall. Most colonies in this area burned through their stores at a very high rate that winter. Even those who had their hives well stocked going into winter experienced high losses from starvation. It's not something you can really plan for, the weather is going to be different every year. It was warm enough for the bees to be much more active, but too cold to feed syrup. Sugar on the top bars saved a lot of my hives that year.


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

shannonswyatt said:


> Exactly. Mountain camp is what you do when you failed to prepare. The idea was a dude was going to his mountain camp and was ill prepared. He only had a bag of sugar to dump in a hive to get it through the remains of the winter.


i remember MountainCamp. He hasn't posted in quite a while but he might amused to read your imaginative account of "his" method.

Wayne


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## tech.35058 (Jul 29, 2013)

I usually wait untill it is too cold for the bees to be flying ( probably too cold for ants too), & just put about 3/4 inch on top of a layer of newspaper on one side, about 1/2 the hive. I moisten it, & after a week or so, it hardens. I can slide from side to the other if I want to get into the hive, I can add more later if they run short. I use a 3/4 inch feeding rim. I am way down south, so my hives are never "snowed in".
I was trying to make "bee candy" last year, got the sugar too hot, made a mess in the kitchen, wife mad .... Mountain camp works & is way easier, if you have to feed sugar.


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## shannonswyatt (May 7, 2012)

waynesgarden said:


> i remember MountainCamp. He hasn't posted in quite a while but he might amused to read your imaginative account of "his" method.
> 
> Wayne


Could be. I'm getting old, and the mind is the first to go!


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

shannonswyatt said:


> Exactly. Mountain camp is what you do when you failed to prepare. The idea was a dude was going to his mountain camp and was ill prepared. He only had a bag of sugar to dump in a hive to get it through the remains of the winter. Now people think this is something you plan on doing in the winter as a matter of course.


Well, not exactly. I remember the posts and had a disagreement with him. You can look back in the archives. Mountaincamp is in the Catskills. He said that he feeds syrup until Thanksgiving. He then discovered that his bees had an excessive moisture problem. His answer was to dump a 5 lb. bag on the top bars on newspaper, and repeated it several times during the winter...I believe he used 30 lb. total through the winter. He also said that the sugar insured his bees wouldn't starve in the winter, with sugar on them.

Well, my contention was that Mountaincamp created the excessive moisture by feeding his bees with syrup until Thanksgiving. And with 40 some apiaries wintering along the Canadian border, I would have to feed something like 30,000 lb. of granulated sugar...all hauled out to the bees on a toboggan. And when, in the history of honey bees, have they ended sugar on their heads?

So, I agree that the procedure is helpful if syrup wasn't given at the correct time. Here in the north, syrup should be fed in September and feeding should be finished in early October. As far as moisture control goes, I don't believe it's necessary up here if you prepare the hive correctly. In wintering nearly 1500 production and nucleus colonies, I find no moisture problems, almost no starvation, and I've never dumped granulated sugar on my bees...just in case.


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## NeilV (Nov 18, 2006)

I try to leave enough on my hives that I don't need to feed any syrup in the Fall. However, sometimes drought forces me to. Other times, I have hives from late swarms that need some help. I have three hives this year that may need some sugar to get through winter. I won't be able to feed them syrup to get them ready, since they are not drawing comb for me now. Those are the sort of hives that can really benefit from using dry sugar on the top bars. 

However, I normally use the Mountain Camp method on all my hives, because I think it on average either has no effect on the hive or helps them out. 

Around here, the weather in winters is wildly variable. We might go from 60 degree highs to 15 degree lows in one day. I remember one week we had a 15 below low and an 80 degree high with snow on the ground with the 80 degree weather. We also have lots of days when it is switching between rain and snow. When the weather is doing that it is just really damp, and there is a lot of potential for condensation just from the atmosphere. In some ways, I sort of think this weather is harder on the bees than would be the case if it just stayed cold. I think of the sugar in the top box as insurance against that. At the bare minimum, the sugar will keep rain from developing inside the hive and dripping on the bees. 

What I find weird is the wide variety of responses by the bees to the sugar in the hive. I have had a few hives that did not like it and tried to take it out. Some hives ignore it. Some hives work on the sugar even though they have stores. Some hives basically use it as food and start brood rearing with it. 

In very early Spring, I gather up the sugar that the bees did not use and set it aside for making syrup for swarms I catch. The only sugar I lose is from the hives that don't want it in the hive, which is not many hives. 

All in all, at least in the variable Oklahoma weather, I think this is a practice that does no or very little harm and can provide some benefits, particularly to weak hives.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

NeilV said:


> , I think this is a practice that does no or very little harm and can provide some benefits, particularly to weak hives.


Could not agree more. I can't think of "any" negatives from using dry sugar or blocks. Only positives .. for those of us who have not yet fully mastered our winter preparations.


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## flyin-lowe (May 15, 2014)

Along these lines, other then cost are there any real negatives to adding the sugar as insurance? Once it gets close to freezing and ants won't be an issue, what negative's could a hive experience from having 3-5 pounds of sugar on top of the bars?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I don't know of any negative consequences. But if one tends to their hives well in advance of the time when the bees cannot get to a feeder doing dry sugar feeding should be unnecessary. That's how Michael Palmer manages his hives. If a person doesn't manage his hives as perhaps they should, because it's better lets say, then dry sugar feeding may become a fall back method for someone who may not understand what's going on in their hives.

Some folks, I believe, will take up dry sugar feeding as "that's the way it's done" and not really know why or that there are other ways and perhaps better ways of feeding a colony of bees.


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## shannonswyatt (May 7, 2012)

sqkcrk said:


> Some folks, I believe, will take up dry sugar feeding as "that's the way it's done" and not really know why or that there are other ways and perhaps better ways of feeding a colony of bees.


We need a like button!


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

shannonswyatt said:


> We need a like button!


We have one now! Bottom left of his post there's a little sherrif badge. Click it and select "I Agree" or "I Approve" or whatever it says.


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## cheryl1 (Mar 7, 2015)

I don't see a button like that on mobile. Must be desktop only


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## photobiker (Mar 23, 2015)

As a first year bee keeper I have with one hive that doesn't have enough resources to make it through the winter and the other seems to have enough based on what I have read on this site. The fact that I can put a few pounds of sugar in my hives that may help them make it through the winter is great from where I'm sitting. 

Did I "tend" to my hives correctly? Absolutely not, that's why I have a weak hive, but it is not for the lack of trying it’s purely from the lack of knowledge and experience. I can appreciate the fact this may not be the proper way of managing bees but it is a way to possibly help a weak hive make it until spring. Maybe next year I will do a better job and the bees won't need that extra help. If they make it through this winter I get to start another year of experience except this time my season starts in February not May or June. I cannot loose 10% or 20% or 30% of my hives, my losses start at 50%.

I'm on this site almost everyday and pick up a little knowledge on each visit. I will do better next year.


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## shannonswyatt (May 7, 2012)

jwcarlson said:


> We have one now! Bottom left of his post there's a little sherrif badge. Click it and select "I Agree" or "I Approve" or whatever it says.


Ha I never noticed that sucker!


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## shannonswyatt (May 7, 2012)

You should have time to feed liquid in Williamsburg photobiker.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

cheryl1 said:


> I don't see a button like that on mobile. Must be desktop only


It is, but you can view the full site on a mobile device and access it. Scroll all the way down there's a little selection menu with drop down. Select appropriate view setting "Full Site" or "Default Mobile Style".



shannonswyatt said:


> You should have time to feed liquid in Williamsburg photobiker.


Barry just activated it recently. It's corresponds to the little rectangle under your username's color.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

photobiker said:


> As a first year bee keeper I have with one hive that doesn't have enough resources to make it through the winter and the other seems to have enough based on what I have read on this site. The fact that I can put a few pounds of sugar in my hives that may help them make it through the winter is great from where I'm sitting.


You are sitting in Wmsbg, VA, where I really got started in bees. You should be able to feed syrup there for another month or better. I would think.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

shannonswyatt said:


> You should have time to feed liquid in Williamsburg photobiker.


Oh, sorry. Didn't see that you already said that.


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## wallyblackburn (May 5, 2015)

Mike Gillmore said:


> Winter weather in the Midwest can be very unpredictable. I look at dry sugar or sugar blocks as a little bit of extra insurance. As mentioned, sometimes the cluster can become stranded from stores when a cold arctic blast causes them to huddle tighter and takes them just out of reach of their stores.
> 
> I remember a few years back we had one of the mildest winters in Ohio that I can recall. Most colonies in this area burned through their stores at a very high rate that winter. Even those who had their hives well stocked going into winter experienced high losses from starvation. It's not something you can really plan for, the weather is going to be different every year. It was warm enough for the bees to be much more active, but too cold to feed syrup. Sugar on the top bars saved a lot of my hives that year.


I am a bit south of you in Central Ohio a little east of Columbus. I made up some 10 lb. candy board feeders today. How do you decide when to put them on?

Thanks,
Wally


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

wallyblackburn said:


> How do you decide when to put them on?


I usually wait until a hard frost or freeze has taken out most of the blooms for the year. I'm still feeding syrup to some lighter hives right now, but I will probably be adding rims and blocks to all the hives at the end of the month or early November. If I were using dry sugar it would be a little later into November, when flying weather has really slowed down. If you add dry sugar too early, when the bees are still flying regularly, they will be carrying it out of the hive.


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## photobiker (Mar 23, 2015)

I'm feeding them 2:1 as fast as they will take it. Catching a little flack about sugar consumption but this is my least expensive hobby. And also this is the only hobby that is paid for from the "family" account. Do you know what a box of 11x14 B&W enlarging paper cost? Or a 10" wide stick of white oak? Or for the hunter types out there 8 lb. of HP-38?


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## flyin-lowe (May 15, 2014)

In my case I had two swarms caught in late July early August. My initial thought was to just let them be and see how they do. I'm think a few bucks for some sugar could be good insurance. Don't think it's lack of preparation just getting bees somewhat late.


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## Dunkel (Jun 12, 2009)

Better lay in the hp-38 while still available, they are going to stop production if not already.


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## AG Fresh (Jun 10, 2015)

To answer the earlier question, I read that one negative consequence of feeding sugar is that moisture can actually accumulate under the crusty bottom side and drip onto the bee's. It makes a quilt box useless if you have one.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

> moisture can actually accumulate under the crusty bottom side and drip onto the bee's.


That really is a negative. If that's happening then there is way too much moisture in the hive. Providing additional ventilation at the top for moist air to vent would eliminate the problem.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

AG Fresh said:


> To answer the earlier question, I read that one negative consequence of feeding sugar is that moisture can actually accumulate under the crusty bottom side and drip onto the bee's. It makes a quilt box useless if you have one.


I think it is a good idea to try to keep open space between the sugar and the inside of the feed rim both so the bees can get up top and so it does not cut off air flow. If moisture were dripping from the bottom of the sugar maybe you need more top insulation and better venting above the quilt material.


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## maudbid (Jul 21, 2014)

Dunkel said:


> Better lay in the hp-38 while still available, they are going to stop production if not already.


That was a rumor that made me cringe when I heard it. Check out Hodgdon's Facebook page, the Aug 18th announcement.
https://www.facebook.com/HodgdonPowder


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## flyin-lowe (May 15, 2014)

AG Fresh said:


> To answer the earlier question, I read that one negative consequence of feeding sugar is that moisture can actually accumulate under the crusty bottom side and drip onto the bee's. It makes a quilt box useless if you have one.


If there is moisture in the hive wouldn't the inner cover or top cover (whatever set up you have) act the same way? I would think the sugar could absorb some moisture. If there is moisture dripping from the bottom of crusty sugar I would think it would acting the same way if the sugar was not there. I have never heard the sugar itself makes more moisture in the hive.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

crofter said:


> keep open space between the sugar and the inside of the feed rim both so the bees can get up top and so it does not cut off air flow.


That makes perfect sense. If the sugar is laid out wall to wall, the moisture laden rising air is trapped under the sugar and will not be able to vent above it.


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## DanielD (Jul 21, 2012)

cheryl1 said:


> I don't see a button like that on mobile. Must be desktop only


You need to be logged in.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

In case anyone is interested. This is from _Gleanings in Beeculture_ 1978.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

So this is actually the "Prior-Camp" Method?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Well, it is Prior to Mountain Camp. heh heh


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## Colobee (May 15, 2014)

Note that he say's "on top of the inner cover..". That he mentions a "feeder rim" is also interesting.


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

commercial guys were feeding sugar by this method in the 60's and before. they got sick of the bees dragging it out like trash so it became lees popular. along comes a new guy throws a name on and its a great new idea. lol


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Michael Johnston, aka Mountain Camp, described how he fed dry sugar and his screen name got attached to the method.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

Mike Gillmore said:


> So this is actually the "Prior-Camp" Method?


Or, it might be the "Johannson Method"... 



BeeCurious said:


> The book "Some Important Operations in Bee Management" by T.S.K. and M.P. Johansson published by the IBRA in 1978 mentions pouring dry sugar on newspaper, sitting on topbars (p.87).
> 
> I believe "dickm" was the first to use the term "MountainCamp Method" in this thread in 2004: http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197517
> 
> If the technique is being debated/criticized, perhaps "MountainCamp" would prefer that we call it the "Johansson Method".


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

beeware10 said:


> commercial guys were feeding sugar by this method in the 60's and before.


Yeah, that article I posted would indicate this particular guy was doing it in the mid-late 50s and I'm guessing he wasn't the first. It just caught my eye while flipping through my grandpa's old magazines so I figured I'd dig up the latest lengthy "mountain camp" thread. 

Can't we just call it the dry-sugar-over-the-winter-cluster method?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

"Can't we just call it the dry-sugar-over-the-winter-cluster method?" Otherwise known, in house, as "The Mountain Camp Method". The vox populi will decide.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

sqkcrk said:


> "The vox populi will decide.


Man... I don't know what vox populi is, but I hope I can't contract it through my keyboard.


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## shannonswyatt (May 7, 2012)

LOL!


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

jwcarlson said:


> Man... I don't know what vox populi is, but I hope I can't contract it through my keyboard.


I would suggest you google it, but you might get the wrong idea.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

sqkcrk said:


> The vox populi will decide.



The popular voice is not necessarily correct....


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Which does not keep it from deciding what words get attached to what method of doing something. It also doesn't mean that the popular voice is necessarily wrong, does it?


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## Dave Burrup (Jul 22, 2008)

On new subjects, and science related subjects the popular voice is usually wrong. This is primarily because they are too lazy to research the subject, and instead believe what someone tells them. They then perpetuate the mis-information. In short order it becomes gospel. The world is flat.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

what would you have it be called? I have ever since before the term "Mountain Camp Method" came into existence called dry sugar feeding on newspaper called it just that, dry sugar feeding on newspaper.


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

Ok, I vote for "Dry Sugar Feeding on Newspaper over the Winter Cluster"


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## Maddy (Jan 20, 2014)

Too wordy. In today's abbreviated society, "Winter Cluster Sugar Feeding" is better, but "Mountain Camp Feeding," just sounds cooler, and is the fastest way to convey the concept. 
"IDK wut d fuss is about, but ikr wit d confusion..."
~M


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

biggraham610 said:


> Ok, I vote for "Dry Sugar Feeding on Newspaper over the Winter Cluster"


I think it needs to be amended to: "Dry Sugar Feeding on Newspaper over the Winter or Early Spring Cluster". :shhhh:

All in favor?


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## lharder (Mar 21, 2015)

How about DSFONOWoESC?


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## Duncan151 (Aug 3, 2013)

lharder said:


> How about DSFONOWoESC?


Wow, and we are not even into the beginning of winter, yet!


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

lharder said:


> How about DSFONOWoESC?


I couldn't have put it more elegantly myself, well done, lharder!


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