# Throw away your double boiler!



## kamerrill

Throw away those old double boiler pots and pans - just do it!! 

I've been meaning to post this for awhile. A local candle maker friend of mine turned me onto presto pots last year. For anyone that makes candles (or creams with wax), make a presto pot to melt your wax in. You will not regret it!

Directions posted here:

http://www.candletech.com/budgetmelter/index.htm

warm regards,

Kurt
www.merrilland.net


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## power napper

Thanks! Will make one.


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## Jim Fischer

Whoa!!!!!

Double boilers do one thing very very very
well - regardless of how much heat is 
pumped into them, the upper pan says at
the temperature of boiling water - 212 F
or 99.61 C (temperatures slightly lower
at higher elevations than sea level). 
All you need do is watch the water level, 
and not let the water boil away, but even 
this scenario does not result in disaster,
as the air between the two pots can only
get so hot in any finite period of time.

The electric pan mentioned may have a good
thermostat, and it may be possible to set
it to a low temperature. But it is a 
*CHEAP CONSUMER PRODUCT*. Ask any
fireman what starts house fires and kills
people most often, and he/she will tell
you that it is cheap countertop appliances.

It does not take too much imagination to
think of the temperature knob being bumped,
the thermostat failing, and other scenarios
just when the user is "out of the room".

What's your house worth? What's your barn
worth? In contrast, what's the total retail 
value of your entire year's production of 
candles, or whatever you are making?

Now, you could use explosives to deal with
that pesky pipe under the sink that won't
come loose, and you could use an acetylene
torch to light birthday candles on a cake.

But you don't.
Not because you haven't thought about it (and
if you claim you haven't, you are in denial)
but precisely because you HAVE thought about it.

So think about it. You can trust the quality
control of yet another made-in-China "POS"
appliance, with the cheapest possible components
that would barely meet the minimum requirements
of UL, or you can trust the laws of thermodynamics.


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## ScadsOBees

Or you could accidentally splash wax out of your double boiler onto the burner, thereby igniting you kitchen and possibly youself.

>>Ask anyfireman what starts house fires and kills
people most often, and he/she will tell
you that it is cheap countertop appliances.

Do you have a study that proves that?
I'd guess stovetops have probably burned down more houses than cheap countertop appliances. That is what I've heard.

Or if not, then unattended appliances. Thus the warnings never to leave unattended.

And torches are the easiest and quickest way to light the birthday cake candles!!


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## Jim Fischer

> Or you could accidentally splash wax out of 
> your double boiler onto the burner, thereby 
> igniting you kitchen and possibly youself.

This could happen with any heat source, 
including the pan referenced. The casing
around the heat source is going to be 
hotter than the target temperature.
What is the surface temperature of the
metal casing on that pan? Anyone got one?

>> ...cheap countertop appliances.
> Do you have a study that proves that?

No, and you don't either, which is why
I suggested that you _ask a fireman_.

I was the Haz-Mat guy for 3 counties
in rural VA for over a decade (due to
travel, I had to train a replacement
recently) so I can tell you why George 
Foreman's various grills are good examples 
of "Weapons of Mass Destruction". They
certainly aren't the "Grill Of My Dreams".









> I'd guess stovetops have probably burned 
> down more houses

You can guess away. 

> unattended appliances

Yeah, that's the main issue. Those coffee
pots that have timers have been a serious
issue, there was a recall of one brand
a while ago due to house fires. I unplug
everything compulsively,


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## ScadsOBees

When I googled "leading causes of house fires" the top 4 that jumped out were cigarettes, arson, cooking, and heating devices, in no particular order.

When delving into the cooking cause, there were many warnings about stoves, ovens, oils, and carelessness, most notably leaving things unattended. 

>>What is the surface temperature of the metal casing on that pan? Anyone got one?

Not as hot as a natural-gas flame.

Not knowing how those little presto warmers are built, I would be more worried about drilling through a heating element. But if it works, it looks convenient, provided it is used with care. Just like a double boiler over a stove top. 

I have a bunch of boys...that is where my highest fire threat is!!


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## Dick Allen

>most notably leaving things unattended.

Right there is the crux of the matter-leaving things unattended. I did not pester our local firefighters by asking if using something made in China is a major cause of house fires. However, they, themselves, have aired public service announcements over our local TV stations saying that here in Anchorage unattended cooking is the major cause of house fires. 

Thanks for the post Kurt.


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## kamerrill

Jim - I always love your posts - your so over the top and funny man. Great stuff! It's about time we have a lively discussion surrounding candle making!

No arguments on your points, Jim (although you fly off the deep end on about using the acetylene torch to light birthday candles - you lost me on the connection but it got a good laugh!). But, in my opinion, double boilers suck - period. Although I still use one for cleaning large batches of wax. Presto pots are awesome and yes they are cheap (meaning not just inexpensive).

It used to take me about an hour to make a batch of 12 jars of hand cream and now it takes me about 10 minutes per dozen. My productivity in terms of doing candle pours, any candles that require re-pours, making hurricane candles with embedded objects etc., has increased immensely. It is much, much, easier to have the wax held at a constant temperature and be able to turn it slightly up or down for the different pours (and different molds). It is possible but in my experience very hard to do with a double boiler. It is also much easier to color wax and instead of using different pouring pots to mix in color chips, I use separate presto posts. They are non-stick and wipe clean with a paper towel. Not that its important, but the first unit that I acquired looks almost brand new  even after hundreds and hundreds of pours!

I agree that you wouldn't want to leave the wax melter unattended nor would I ever want to leave the double boiler unattended (the open flame scares me much more than the presto pot). Melting wax is a dangerous business. I would highly encourage folks to have an emergency plan and equipment to respond to a crisis in the shop.

In terms of drilling through the heating element: That's not a problem. It's very clear where the heating element is (directly on the bottom and not on the side) so you won't hit it by accident. Go look at one and youll understand what I mean.

As with all pieces of equipment, weigh the pros and cons and yes, the inherent dangers, and make your choice.

warm regards,
Kurt


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## Jim Fischer

> Jim - I always love your posts - your so over the > top and funny man. Great stuff! 

Thanks, I try to add a smile or three.

Some people take me seriously, believe it or
not, and golly does THAT make for some "lively
discussions".









But I do not like countertop appliances at
all, as they tend to be accidents just waiting
to happen, and I blithely wander into dangerous 
situations all the time, and seem to have a 
talent for effortlessly making things much worse.


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## Michael Bush

> Ask any fireman what starts house fires and kills
people most often, and he/she will tell
you that it is cheap countertop appliances.

I've asked many, and they always say people falling asleep while smoking...


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## Jim Fischer

> people falling asleep while smoking...

That has been happening less what with the
higher price of both cigs and grass and all.


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## Propolis30

In my area it would probably be meth labs. Danged ole trailer houses explode around here like pop rocks.


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## rweakley

Well since I live in the Meth Capital of the Meth capital of the Meth Capital. I would say meth labs also. Oh the Misery of Missouri


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## BULLSEYE BILL

>I blithely wander into dangerous 
situations all the time, and seem to have a 
talent for effortlessly making things much worse.


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## Hill's Hivery

Well, take it FROM a firefighter!

Most fires that I have encountered in my 15 years of firefighting occur due to poor wiring and unattended cooking. There is the occasional fire started by people smoking in bed or discarding of their ashes incorrectly, but for the most part it is improper wiring. I can't say that I have had very many small appliances as the cause of fires. (As long as they are used properly) Darn MEth heads! 

So, Take it for what its worth from my 'puter to yours. And as always, BE SAFE and use COMMON SENSE!


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## shoefly

The Presto pot instructions are great and for safety reasons I'll plug it in outside the house.


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## JohnK and Sheri

Double boilers are a pain, they are slow and messy.
I LOVE my presto pots, I have 6 (!!!) of them, one for every variety (different colors, scents, etc) of candle I make, then just put the lid on the leftovers and when I want to do that particular color it is pretty much good to go, or easy to make adjustments in color, quickly. In addition I can have different colors all melting at once. They are super for when I don't want to fire up the big melter, only want to do a small batch of candles. I have found the thermostats run true. 
Like any appliance, one must use common sense. I NEVER leave my shop with one turned on, and I have two fire extinguishers, although I am more worried about someone knocking a display candle over than one of my presto pots suddenly bursting into flame. 
Sheri


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## Sundance

"Like any appliance, one must use common sense. I NEVER leave my shop with one turned on, and I have two fire extinguishers, although I am more worried about someone knocking a display candle over than one of my presto pots suddenly bursting into flame. "

Well put Sheri. You have to use common
sense in all things with some danger
involved. I like the idea and the great
link (thanks Kurt!). I can see that it
would be great to have more than one.

My wife has expressed some interest in
doing candles so she may get a ID and
ask some questions on candles, creams,
etc.


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## JohnK and Sheri

For those of you not wanting to make your own, there is an outfit out of Minnesota that makes a great unit and sells them on Ebay. This is where I bought mine. You can buy them singly or by lots of 4, I think. http://stores.ebay.com/Coppercreekincs-General-Store
They also have other candlemaking items, scents and such.

Sheri


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## Big Ed

It's funny this post came up. I am a firefighter and it just so happens I had two fires back to back the other night. One burned up a kitchen from an unattended pop-tart,(Strawberry if you are wondering, and the girl went next door while it was cooking.......helloooo?) and the other was an abandoned building used by the homeless destroyed by suspicious means. The morale of this story - stay away from pop-tarts and bums!









Seriously, I would have to agree with Hill's Hivery. Where I work in a large urban/suburban area, most of our structure fires are electrical in nature, with dry cooking a close second. In Jim's defence, most counter top appliances are pretty dangerous. Cigarettes are probably next. This was my first pop-tart fire, but around Thanksgiving I always get a chuckle out of the morons who decide frying a turkey in their garage is a good idea.  Dumb people=job security.

Everyone repeat this with me......Fire extinguishers Good! GOOD!


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## honeyman46408

Well back to the subject at hand  

Yesterday I bought a Presto Pot and installed the valve=SLICK now I can throw away the yard sale crock pot


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## Beekeeper1958

Put mine together yesterday.
Seems like it used to take all afternoon to melt and screen what I did in an hour.
Thanks for the tip.


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## BULLSEYE BILL

I've done everything except buy the tap. The one I have is the wrong thread number, too course.


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## honeyman46408

Go to the local plumbing shop and see if you can borrow one


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## Kevin M

No double boiler for me...! Presto all the way wx melter...! simple, cheap to build and as safe as any other method of melting wax. As mentioned, never leave unattended and use common sense....


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## kc in wv

Well we have heard from several occupations on this subject. How about an insurance agent now. 

Top 5 reasons for house fire's include unattended cooking, unattended candles and believe it or not unattended clothes dryers. Or at least that is what the tell their claims man.


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## shoefly

The cooker works really well. I am not sure how to get the propolis separated from the wax though. Do you use water in the bottom to dissolve the propolis?

Bullseye Bill, attached is a link for the right tap thread size 1/4" National Pipe Thread (NPT) 18 threads per inch. 

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=all&item_ID=9862&group_ID=1167&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog


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## BULLSEYE BILL

Thank you Shoefly! I have already made three of the Presto Pots and they are great!

My biggest problem was finding the 19/32 drill bit. Holy cow they were expensive.  So I settled for a borrowed 9/16 and let the tap finish sizing the hole, and it worked fine.

I set one of the melters above the other so it could drain directly into the bottom one. I melted the dirty wax in the upper and strained it through paper towles into the lower one and poured from the lower into molds. Worked great.


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## honeyman46408

9/16s = close enough for BEE work.

Bill

Tell the "boys" who are worried about FIRE how the cord hooks to the pot.


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## JC

I want to coat the inside of my top feeders with wax. Would you drain some wax from the presto pot into the top feeder, or would you dip a brush into the presto pot and “paint” the inside of the top feeder?


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## berkshire bee

Picked up a pot and all the fixins for just over $30.As with anything use more caution than you think necesary and a good helpin' of common sense and NEVER NEVER leave unattended. 

JC, It seems like the wax will turn solid too fast to brush on, but you could give it a try. Check Michael's site. I think it's paraffin they use for dipping.


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## mpjourdan

JC, here's a Youtube video of someone coating the inside of a feeder with wax. It looks like they pour the beeswax into the feeder but also use a paint brush to work it around.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=oHeXfCBpUSo


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## JC

Thanks for the information. I will be coating the insides of 30 top feeders with wax.


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## RAlex

I used my presto pot last year to make a few candles ...worked well . This spring I used a cheap paint brush and about a pound and half(melted in my presto) to wax my cut comb foundation into the frames.My frames have split bottom bars so I assemble leaving the wedge attached and just slip the foundation into the groove and thru the bottom bar, and wax it in with a cheap paint brush (1/2" wide) .I wax them top and bottom . In the past I have had problems keeping the foundation from drooping


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## Mabe

*Thanks Kurt*

Howdy Kurt,

Thanks for posting the instructions for retrofitting the presto pot. I'd been using them without the valve, but your method sure beats mine.....as do your tactful responses! You seem adept at putting out fires.

Mabe


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