# Oxalic Acid - No longer a "pesticide."



## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*

:applause:

'Free at last, free at last...'


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## hjsmith00843 (Jan 17, 2014)

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So I will have to wait to use my new OxaVap Vaporizer until next year? lol


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## TalonRedding (Jul 19, 2013)

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Get ready for price increase.


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## westernbeekeeper (May 2, 2012)

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Yeah!


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## theriverhawk (Jun 5, 2009)

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OA will still be cheap...now the taxes that they tack on to it will be another story. $7 can just jumped to $20. Would someone like to tell me exactly why we need "gov't approval" to use something that we already know works????


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## TalonRedding (Jul 19, 2013)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*



theriverhawk said:


> Would someone like to tell me exactly why we need "gov't approval" to use something that we already know works????


Don't get me started! I hear you loud and clear.


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## Dominic (Jul 12, 2013)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*



theriverhawk said:


> OA will still be cheap...now the taxes that they tack on to it will be another story. $7 can just jumped to $20. Would someone like to tell me exactly why we need "gov't approval" to use something that we already know works????


Because we've had surprises in the past with people using stuff people "already knew that it worked". We are, after all, dealing with food here.

I'm all for OA, but I'd rather the governments be stricter as far as what pesticides can be put on our foods, in general, than less. If they were a bit less inconsistent, though, it wouldn't hurt. Still amazes me how they'll take the word of any chemical company on their word, but they refused the data of OA tests made in Canada because it wasn't made in the US... The same applies to my own governments, of course.


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## TalonRedding (Jul 19, 2013)

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Can you say "crony capitalism"?


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

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theriverhawk said:


> OA will still be cheap...now the taxes that they tack on to it will be another story. $7 can just jumped to $20.


taxes for what? I think not.


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## laketrout (Mar 5, 2013)

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What brands of oxalic acid have you guys researched and found to pure enough for vaporizing .


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*



laketrout said:


> What brands of oxalic acid have you guys researched and found to pure enough for vaporizing .


Wood bleach that is 98% pure or higher is just fine. Savogran, sold by many stores as wood bleach, meets that requirement (or so the manufacturer has stated)...


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## laketrout (Mar 5, 2013)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*

Is the savogran brand available at any of the chain stores .


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

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Ace Hardware carries Savogran :

http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=4378333


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

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If the epa is doing something good there has to be more to the story.


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## laketrout (Mar 5, 2013)

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Thanks Rader , whats the EPA up to .


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## Duncan Thacker (Feb 4, 2014)

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laketrout said:


> Thanks Rader , whats the EPA up to .


The EPA is up to destroying the environment again. Go Figure.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*

It would not surprise me to discover there might be a "business interest" working with the EPA on this. 

Something along the lines of .... A new "approved" product with pre-measured doses of OA, packaged and marketed specifically for the beekeeping industry. The price would of course be 10 times higher than the cost of "Wood Bleach". Just don't get caught using off label Savogran on your hives.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*



Mike Gillmore said:


> Just don't get caught using off label Savogran on your hives.


Once approved (if approved) how could anyone tell the difference between using "off label Savogran" or the "approved pre-measured doses?" No difference in product.


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## laketrout (Mar 5, 2013)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*

Is two grams enough for a three medium brood chamber .

Also from the conversion site I was at one gram equals 15.432 grains , can anyone confirm that .


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*



laketrout said:


> Is two grams enough for a three medium brood chamber .


Yes..


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## beekuk (Dec 31, 2008)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*



Mike Gillmore said:


> It would not surprise me to discover there might be a "business interest" working with the EPA on this.
> 
> Something along the lines of .... A new "approved" product with pre-measured doses of OA, packaged and marketed specifically for the beekeeping industry.


A bit like this...http://www.thorne.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=5060

There are a few registered oxalic trickle products in Europe, but many just mix their own of course.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*



snl said:


> Once approved (if approved) how could anyone tell the difference between using "off label Savogran" or the "approved pre-measured doses?" No difference in product.


The most obvious would be the "container" found in the field when administering the product. 

If the new business were to get serious about it, there are rare mineral security markers that could be added to the "new" product. A quick test of the residue would determine without question if it was the "approved" product, or simply wood bleach OA.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*



Mike Gillmore said:


> If the new business were to get serious about it, there are rare mineral security markers that could be added to the "new" product. A quick test of the residue would determine without question if it was the "approved" product, or simply wood bleach OA.


So, ya take a little of the "new" blend it in with the old cheaper stuff ....

Oh yeah, and you discard the old container...... 

Where there is a will there is a way....


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## jfb58 (Sep 10, 2013)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*

Deleted


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## Duncan Thacker (Feb 4, 2014)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*



snl said:


> So, ya take a little of the "new" blend it in with the old cheaper stuff ....
> 
> Oh yeah, and you discard the old container......
> 
> Where there is a will there is a way....


So now because you sell the vaporizer your advice to beeks Especially new beeks is to go ahead and break the law. By the way attitudes like that are why mites developed resistance in FIRST PLACE!!!!!!!!! UNETHICAL practices by the beekeeper.

WHO IS MODERATING THIS!!!!!!!


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

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Inhale, take a deep breath. Your stress is off the charts. Most people here will have a calm conversation about different views. 

Apologize to you, was not my intent to hook you so badly. Confess you hooked me a bit,I know better.


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## Duncan Thacker (Feb 4, 2014)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*

I am calm now, It pains me to see everything we have been fighting against since Varroa showed up on the scene, everything we know to be inherently wrong, spouted out as advice to new upcoming beekeepers all over the world. I was utterly floored by the comment. It would be good business to remove the messages and cease the shameful sideways attempts at furthering business profits. That's all I really care to comment on the matter.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*



Duncan Thacker said:


> By the way attitudes like that are why mites developed resistance in FIRST PLACE!!!!!!!!!


If you are talking about mites developing resistance to miticides it was because mites are very adaptive not because people used off label pesticides.


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## Dominic (Jul 12, 2013)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*



sqkcrk said:


> If you are talking about mites developing resistance to miticides it was because mites are very adaptive not because people used off label pesticides.


Abusive use of the same pesticide, over and over, is bound to create resistance.

Part of the problem, though, is that these pesticides are usually registered one at a time, and when the previous one stops being effective.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*

Ha Ha I can see SNL getting his bank accounts ready now, for the influx of money once OA is legalised! 

There would also be an opportunity, to source medical grade OA to sell to people who are concerned about purity.

Me, I think the government should stay out of dictating what brand of OA can be used, that will do nothing but add cost to the beekeeping industry. The potential for contaminating a hive from a wood bleach application is tiny, it's not like bees never get dirty when they go out.

I believe my own country has a good model. Treating bees with OA is legal, and you can use any old hardware store bought OA you want. There are some beekeepers though who are concerned with purity and there is no law against them using some highly refined expensive stuff.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*

Normal use of the same pesticide is bound to create resistance too. Abuse does not have to exist. Even if sometimes it happens. Checkmite was not developed because Apistan stopped working. It was an alternative. Miticure, an Apistan based strip, was developed from a cattle mite ear tag. But the company discontinued making it for beekeepers.


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## Dominic (Jul 12, 2013)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*



sqkcrk said:


> Normal use of the same pesticide is bound to create resistance too. Abuse does not have to exist. Even if sometimes it happens. Checkmite was not developed because Apistan stopped working. It was an alternative. Miticure, an Apistan based strip, was developed from a cattle mite ear tag. But the company discontinued making it for beekeepers.


Systematic use of the same pesticide is, in my eyes, an abusive use of it.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*

Hasn't OA been used to treat mites in other countries for over 20 years now? Maybe longer? 

I would think that if resistance to OA was to occur it would have happened by now, don't you think?


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## Dominic (Jul 12, 2013)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*



Mike Gillmore said:


> Hasn't OA been used to treat mites in other countries for over 20 years now? Maybe longer?
> 
> I would think that if resistance to OA was to occur it would have happened by now, don't you think?


That's fallacious logic. Resistance doesn't always come overnight.

Think of Roundup. Glyphosate was discovered as a herbicide in 1970, but the first instance of resistant weeds came in 1996, 26 years later.

I have heard multiple experts state, however, that it is harder for lifeforms to become resistance to pesticides that work through pH, like OA does. Note, though, *harder*. Not impossible.

I think OA is a wonderful product. But I also think that using OA multiple times per year, and never using anything else, would be a mistake.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*



Dominic said:


> I think OA is a wonderful product. But I also think that using OA multiple times per year, and never using anything else, would be a mistake.


I can appreciate your opinion. Time will tell.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*



Dominic said:


> Systematic use of the same pesticide is, in my eyes, an abusive use of it.


If doing so leads to resistance, I guess so. I guess I just found your words harshly critical. Maybe I was reading between the lines something not there.


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## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*

If the EPA is working on this, it will be in print somewhere....Where can we read about this? 

If we know the EPA tack on this issue, we can write our representatives to urge their support. If ever a fast track for approval was indicated, it should be considered for OA vaporization.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*

Lburou - Good question. I did some googling, and found no mention of EPA removing oxalic acid from pesticide status. Usually, when EPA does something, they make a public comment about it. Makes me wonder if there was possibly some form of misunderstanding by one or more people at that Maryland State Beekeeper Meeting . . . ?


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*



shinbone said:


> Lburou - Go Makes me wonder if there was possibly some form of misunderstanding by one or more people at that Maryland State Beekeeper Meeting . . . ?


No misunderstanding.... Straight from Meredith F. Laws, Chief, Insecticide-Rodenticide Branch. Office of Pesticide Programs....


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*

If the EPA was moving towards approving a use of oxalic acid a a varroa control, oxalic acid would still be considered a "pesticide". It would however, be part of a product that was labelled and approved for that use, still as a pesticide.

Pardon my cynicism, but if the EPA is moving in that direction, it is *only *because some product manufacturer sees the potential for making some money with this labeled and registered application of oxalic acid. I would expect to see this approved use in a form that is not easily duplicated with widely available hardware store oxalic acid - otherwise why pay for the testing and approval process? There would be little likelihood of the details being made public before the manufacturer has their ducks in a row.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*



Rader Sidetrack said:


> If the EPA was moving towards approving a use of oxalic acid a a varroa control, oxalic acid would still be considered a "pesticide". It would however, be part of a product that was labelled and approved for that use, still as a pesticide.


The use of OA as a pesticide had expired and was not reapplied for....... thus again according to Meredith the EPA no longer lists it as a pesticide...


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*



Rader Sidetrack said:


> Pardon my cynicism, but if the EPA is moving in that direction, it is *only *because some product manufacturer sees the potential for making some money with this labeled and registered application of oxalic acid. I would expect to see this approved use in a form that is not easily duplicated with widely available hardware store oxalic acid - otherwise why pay for the testing and approval process? There would be little likelihood of the details being made public before the manufacturer has their ducks in a row.


According to the EPA they are relying on the Canadian reports and others.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*



Rader Sidetrack said:


> If the EPA was (it is) moving towards approving a use of oxalic acid a a varroa control, oxalic acid would still be considered a "pesticide". It would however, be part of a product that was labelled and approved for that use, still as a pesticide.


You could very well be correct, time and the EPA will tell.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*



snl said:


> No misunderstanding.... Straight from Meredith F. Laws, Chief, Insecticide-Rodenticide Branch. Office of Pesticide Programs....


Good to hear. Did Ms. Laws indicate a time frame?


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*



shinbone said:


> Good to hear. Did Mr. Laws indicate a time frame?


Not a Mr., it's Ms. or Mrs. Laws..... it was hoped "later this year or early next." Keep your fingers crossed.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*



snl said:


> According to the EPA they are relying on the Canadian reports and others.


Someone will have to pony up the registration fee - about $600,000 last I checked, and prepare the paperwork. If the EPA reclassifies/approves oxlic acid for use against varroa on their own initiative, where does that leave the manufacturers of competing products - the very ones that paid a lot of money to get their respective products approved? Their lobbyists and lawyers will have a bonanza!


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*



snl said:


> Not a Mr., it's Ms. or Mrs. Laws.....


Oops. My mistake. Went back and fixed it.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*



Rader Sidetrack said:


> Someone will have to pony up the registration fee - about $600,000 last I checked, and prepare the paperwork. If the EPA reclassifies/approves oxlic acid for use against varroa on their own initiative, where does that leave the manufacturers of competing products - the very ones that paid a lot of money to get their respective products approved? Their lobbyists and lawyers will have a bonanza!


This is actually something wrong with the system.

In my own country, when varroa arrived advice was sought by govt on how to handle this / assist beekeepers. A raft of pesticides were approved for use, the idea being we did not want to have just one or two pesticides that got used every time and promoted resistance to them. Oxalic acid was approved at no cost to anyone, the governing body saw it as their duty to do that. Other commercial products (Apistan for example) had to go through an approval process at their own cost, we are a small country though trials did not have to be run here we accept overseas data.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*



Rader Sidetrack said:


> Someone will have to pony up the registration fee - about $600,000 last I checked, and prepare the paperwork. If the EPA reclassifies/approves oxlic acid for use against varroa on their own initiative, where does that leave the manufacturers of competing products - the very ones that paid a lot of money to get their respective products approved? Their lobbyists and lawyers will have a bonanza!


Nope, no registration fee.. again EPA doing this on their own. Could very well be that you're right Graham on the lawyers and lobbyists on other products, but accordingly this is the EPA's initiative. As they said in the meeting "We're not the bad guys!" Certainly OA will not supplant existing products.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*

Oh. Well in that case ignore my last post.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*



snl said:


> As they (_i.e. EPA_) said in the meeting "We're not the bad guys!"


"The lady doth protest too much, methinks."


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*



Lburou said:


> we can write our representatives to urge their support. If ever a fast track for approval was indicated, it should be considered for OA vaporization.


Me, I'm writing to Michelle Obama. As a "Beehaver" I would hope that this is a cause she could pursue. We all (well almost all) know that the woman rule the roost. Email her with your request for the fast tracking of OA.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*



snl said:


> Nope, no registration fee.. again EPA doing this on their own.


I understand your point, and while you very well have understood exactly what Ms Laws said, well, I'll believe that is actually going to happen when I see it on an _official _document. She may have an honest opinion that this will get approved, but ... _stuff _... happens in the _best _of circumstances. Manufacturers of competing products aren't likely to just throw up their hands and slink off. 

The EPA can't approve _anything _without putting it in the Federal Register. It will be interesting to see if/when that actually happens.


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

@FLOTUS

You can tweet her if you want.


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## BigGun (Oct 27, 2011)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*

This will probably disappear when competitors get wind of it.


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*

Since so many colonies are being treated with OA, by so many beekeepers, it's akin to deliberately making 'scofflaws' out of an ag. sector with very high visibility.

They can't just make it disappear.


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## Duncan Thacker (Feb 4, 2014)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*



Oldtimer said:


> There would also be an opportunity, to source medical grade OA to sell to people who are concerned about purity.


I don't want "pure" toilet cleaner in my hives either.


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## Duncan Thacker (Feb 4, 2014)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*



sqkcrk said:


> Normal use of the same pesticide is bound to create resistance too. Abuse does not have to exist. Even if sometimes it happens. Checkmite was not developed because Apistan stopped working. It was an alternative. Miticure, an Apistan based strip, was developed from a cattle mite ear tag. But the company discontinued making it for beekeepers.


Again, "Its OK because everyone else did it in the past" attitude.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*

Gee, I didn't know my comments needed translation, let alone categorization. Thanks, Duncan.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*



Duncan Thacker said:


> I don't want "pure" toilet cleaner in my hives either.


Duncan, you do have a way with words. 

And I'm sure you protest strongly against adding pure "Acetic Acid" to your salad.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*



Duncan Thacker said:


> I don't want "pure" toilet cleaner in my hives either.


Again, Duncan ........ what are you going to say or how will you react when OA is approved as a miticide?


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*

maybe some background checkinging would show that oxalic acid is normal in honey and in a lot of products that we eat. Its aproved in most countries. might be a good time to go hug a tree.


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## Duncan Thacker (Feb 4, 2014)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*



Mike Gillmore said:


> Duncan, you do have a way with words.
> 
> And I'm sure you protest strongly against adding pure "Acetic Acid" to your salad.


Yes I do, the result of a great education and good common sense.

NO problem at all. Can you add OA to yours.....stop with the ridiculous comparisons you are seriously insulting the forums intelligence.

Do you have a financial interest in the success of the OA vaporizer?


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## Duncan Thacker (Feb 4, 2014)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*



snl said:


> Again, Duncan ........ what are you going to say or how will you react when OA is approved as a miticide?


Asked and answered.


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## Duncan Thacker (Feb 4, 2014)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*



Mike Gillmore said:


> Just don't get caught using off label Savogran on your hives.


This says it ALL!! This is what we call a "contradictory statement".


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## Duncan Thacker (Feb 4, 2014)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*



beeware10 said:


> maybe some background checkinging would show that oxalic acid is normal in honey and in a lot of products that we eat. Its aproved in most countries. might be a good time to go hug a tree.


Already done. OA in food IS NOT Wood Bleach or Toilet Cleaner.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*



Duncan Thacker said:


> OA in food IS NOT Wood Bleach or Toilet Cleaner.


Hmm.

Could you explain how OA (oxalic acid) found naturally in certain foods is chemically different from oxalic acid found in the human body, or even in Savogran (vaporized or sprayed in hives)?

From what I can tell, they are all "H[SUB]2[/SUB]C[SUB]2[/SUB]O[SUB]4[/SUB]".



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxalic_acid


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## Duncan Thacker (Feb 4, 2014)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*



Rader Sidetrack said:


> Hmm.
> 
> Could you explain how OA (oxalic acid) found naturally in certain foods is chemically different from oxalic acid found in the human body, or even in Savogran (vaporized or sprayed in hives)?
> 
> ...


YES I CAN!! I would love to!!
First it does NOT matter that the chemical composition is the same. I love broccoli and OA is in broccoli. There is no denying this. The OA in food is so minuet and NOT in a vapor form. We eat OA everyday. Wood Bleaches and Toilet cleaners are OA concentrated into a product that will KILL you if you ingest it. 

Want to put it to the test,,, I DO!!! Find a person willing to drink a cup of wood bleach or toilet cleaner. Find a person willing to inhale a dose from a vaporizer. I will sit down next to that person and eat a cup of powdered sugar. He WILL DIE. I might get a cavity or a burst of energy.

Its a NO BRAINER!!! 

To new beekeepers considering using OA in your hives consider the above.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*



Duncan Thacker said:


> First it does NOT matter that the chemical composition is the same. I love broccoli and OA is in broccoli. There is no denying this. The [HIGHLIGHT]OA in food is so minuet [/HIGHLIGHT]and NOT in a vapor form. We eat OA everyday.


So you are saying the issue with oxalic acid is the size of the dose? In small amounts OA is OK with you?


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## Duncan Thacker (Feb 4, 2014)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*



Rader Sidetrack said:


> So you are saying the issue with oxalic acid is the size of the dose? In small amounts OA is OK with you?


What occurs NATURALLY in food is out of my control and fine with me. I know what to eat and what not to eat. As I said earlier I love broccoli. 

What man did to OA is good for cleaning my toilet NOT to eat. 

Would YOU be the guy to prove its the same, Would you Drink or Breath it! Put your money where your mouth is and prove it. 

Is there Really a grey area there! Don't turn this into a battle of whit your argument is unarmed.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*

Do you realize that there is an alternative to _vaporizing _oxalic acid? Make a solution and dribble it onto the top bars. Absolutely no possibility of inhalation of vapors. More here: 

http://scientificbeekeeping.com/oxalic-acid-questions-answers-and-more-questions-part-1-of-2-parts/



From a toxicity viewpoint, there really isn't any difference in eating broccoli high in "natural" oxalic acid and eating the _same amount_ of oxalic acid manufactured by man.

When it comes to eating oxalic acid, it is all about *the dose *you eat. Here is one estimate that the "_natural_" oxalic acid in eating 10 lbs of rhubarb leaves would put a 130 lb woman at serious risk of death. 
http://helios.hampshire.edu/~nlNS/mompdfs/oxalicacid.pdf


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## Duncan Thacker (Feb 4, 2014)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*



Rader Sidetrack said:


> Do you realize that there is an alternative to _vaporizing _oxalic acid? Make a solution and dribble it onto the top bars. Absolutely no possibility of inhalation of vapors. More here:
> 
> http://scientificbeekeeping.com/oxalic-acid-questions-answers-and-more-questions-part-1-of-2-parts/



Its not dribbled on the TBs its dribbled directly on the bees. I wont dribble toilet cleaner in my hives as much as I wont vaporize it either...same difference, you got to do better than that to match my argument, but then again that would be impossible.



> From a toxicity viewpoint, there really isn't any difference in eating broccoli high in "natural" oxalic acid and eating the same amount of oxalic acid manufactured by man.


THEN DRINK SOME. That statement is totally false and misleading. IT WILL KILL YOU AND YOU KNOW IT!


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

*Re: Oxalic Aicd - No longer a "pesticide."*

This thread is dead . . . dead . . . . dead!


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