# The latest in mite treatment technology



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

What is it? An OA evaporator? Looks like a Mars Lander.


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## SilverFox (Apr 25, 2003)

I wonder how fast it goes in the 1/4 mile???


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## Walt McBride (Apr 4, 2004)

Dennis : Could you give us some information on where you got the photo or who is using it. There is a lot of wireing in its makeup. A muffin
fan ,three ball valves and insulated twin delivery tubes.
Walt


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## Terry G (Feb 6, 2005)

Comercial Beekeepers need an oxalic evaporator that can easily,quickly and effectivly treat beehives. I built this unit out of scrap stainless steel I had laying around the shop. It evaporates approx 6 grams of liquid oxalic in about 30 seconds slowily puffing in the gas with preheated air. I can control the temps of all the heat zones on the unit to the degree. 

I don't know how effective the machine is because I just got the bug worked out of it last thursday and have just used it 2 days now. I am averaging 15 minutes to fumigate 24 hives (which is the size of my bee yards). 

I am working with Cowen Manufacturing in Parowan Utah to refine and automate the evaporator in to something which can safley used by other beekeepers.

The reason I built this machine is that all the other evaporators I have seen do not seem very efficient to me. I want to be able to stick something into the beehive push a button, wait the alloted time and be done. Go home to bed and rest in peace with the knowlege that all the mites are choking and gasping thier last breath.


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## magnet-man (Jul 10, 2004)

Terry, what temperature are you setting on your evaporator? I found this information on allen dick's web site.

The physical properties of oxalic acid may be of interest in this
connection. The stuff one buys is usually oxalic acid dihydrate, which is a
crystal which has two water molecules attached to each oxalic acid molecule.
The CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics gives the following properties
for oxalic acid dihydrate:

On heating:

1) The water of hydration leaves at 101.5 degrees C. The water boils off
leaving anhydrous oxalic acid crystals.

2) At 157 degrees C the oxalic acid starts to sublime (goes directly from
solid to gas)

3) At 189 degrees C the oxalic acid which has not yet sublimed decomposes to
formic acid and carbon monoxide.


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## Terry G (Feb 6, 2005)

Here is how the evaporator works:

The tank on top of the unit is filled up with oxalic dihydrate crystals. the tank is then heated to 110 degrees C. At this temp the oxalic is in liquid form. The tank temp is maintained at this temp.

The oxalic liquid is metered between 2 ball valves. The metered amount then falls in a vaporisation cup which is heated to 175 degrees C. here the liquid oxalic sublimates and turns into gas.

A heated air source then blows the oxalic gas into the hive. (the heated air and vaporization cup temp are all controlled by the same controller to keep decomposation to a minimum, and also to prevent resublimation in the manifold. The warm air also helps open up the cluster of wintering bees for penitration of the oxalic gas).

The amount of liquid oxalic vaporized can be changed by placing a longer or shorter pipe between the 2 ball valves. I have a pipe that holds 6 grams of liquid and use a 2 hive manifold on the front of the machine.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

>>The warm air also helps open up the cluster of wintering bees for penitration of the oxalic gas

So, how late in the fall or early in the spring can you successfully treat with oxalic acid without hurting the bees and queen, while accomplishing a successful mite kill ?

Just thinking to myself, if treating when cooler, when the bees hold a slight cluster, the mites which drop will more than likely die due to cold at the bottom board leval. 
Especially when treating in the spring when the cluster tends to be upwards in the chambers. This why I like to treat with fluvalinate earlier than later in the spring. And is mabey why I am still getting a mite drop with fluvalinate.

How much would a machine as you discribe cost. Didnt see the photos, but get a idea of what it is all about by your discription. Very interested in this machine. Sound as you have every angle covered. 

>>Comercial Beekeepers need an oxalic evaporator that can easily,quickly and effectivly treat beehives.

I totally agree, I need something that is easy to use, quick, easy on the bees, effective and trouble free. I need a device that will treat my beeyards in a couple of days.


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## Terry G (Feb 6, 2005)

Josh Cowen at Cowen Manufacturing is working on prototype machines. Hopefully He can have a Saleable unit for the fall. I think the vaporizer will be worth several thousand dollars. There is a lot to control. We are working together to try.and makeit as simple and trouble free as possible. It has to be pickup truck and beekeeper proof. Price is all relative to the amount spent on strips, where as the evaporator will be a onetime investment


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## Knoefler (Jan 20, 2005)

Does OA contaminate the honey if used with the crop on?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

>>Price is all relative to the amount spent on strips,

I agree, but at that price for the machine, there is going to have to be some concrete number behind this treatment. Right no I am using Formic Acid, and pleased with the results. It is cheap, and the method I applicate it is cheap. 
Several thousand $$ would only be practical for larger commercial operators.


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## Axtmann (Dec 29, 2002)

With this thousand-dollar machine you can treat two hives at the same time in 30 seconds. 

If I should spend 1000 Euro I would run an operation with approx 20 electric vaporizers like Varrox or JB200 treat 20 hives the time your infernal machine works on two. 

And without any kind of air blower or hot air and no boiling acid in a special chamber.No pipe or hose clogging.

Are you trying to redevelop the wheel?


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## franc (Jan 7, 2003)

Im working on a disc element set-up that costs about .30 in materials and runs on 12volt. to vaporize the OA.Im thinking about making more and just leaving them in the hive so all that needs done is load them up..with a liquid solution..connect the voltage for a couple min. and on to the next. Still workin on the details UGh!!


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## Terry G (Feb 6, 2005)

Yes I am reinventing the wheel. "thinking out side the box". 

I am worried about burning down beehives with the Varrox and Varrex style evaporators If They are not monitored properly. Most Beekeepers in our area have minimal space between their bottom boards and frames, so melting wax is a concern. Also screen bottoms are not used here due to the Harsh Winters. I believe the best way use oxalic is to Vaporize the product outside the hive. 

The next concern is the use of 12 volts:
-	It requires a lot more current to heat with 12 volts than with 120 volts. 
- Cable sizes need to be larger and there is no control of the heating elements.
- How hot do the Varrox style heaters get? 
- How long before a wooden bottom board gets charred? 
-	Can dead bees and trash on the bottom board, or a mouse nest catch fire? 
- How heavy are the Batteries that need to be carried to each beehive? 
- To power 20 Varrox Style heaters how long will 1 battery last? 
- Can a car alternator recharge the battery between bee yards? 
-	They need to be cooled of to be reloaded and reused, so a bucket of water needs to be taken along

Then we have the external propane heated evaporators. A person needs to hold a torch to the evaporator for a minute sublimate the acid into the hive. They need to be cooled of to be reloaded They do not work in windy conditions. This is a safer way to evaporate oxalic because it is being done outside the hive. Unless there is an outside air source to push in in the fumes this method is not as effective as the varrox. 

The hive also needs to be closed for 15 minutes for proper penetration of the oxalic gas with both the 12volt and propane methods, unless an outside air source is used

With 120 volt heaters I can monitor and control the the oxalic as it sublimates.

Only a small generator and extension cable is required. My generator stays in the back of the pickup, and the extension cord reaches every hive in the bee location without moving my vehicle.

There is no concern of doing damage to bee hives due to heat because all evaporation is done outside the hive. Hot air pushes the acid vapour into the hive to prevent any plugging of hoses or pipes. This is a more effective way to treat a bee hive because oxalic gas penetrates the cluster of bees quicker and more evenly.

I agree my Evaporator is very complex. The machine is for the large commercial beekeeper (2000 + colonies)- I operate 6000 colonies. I do not want to measure 2 grams of oxalic every time I move to a different hive. I need a mechanical way to meter the product (liquid is easy to meter). I need to be able and send employees and not worry about under dosing or over dosing of the product (burning down beehives due to being forgetful or lazy). When we are used to spending $12000 dollars on mite strips per year versus $80 per year on oxalic a 2 or 3 thousand dollar evaporator does not seem that expensive. As long as it is durable, trouble free, efficient, and lasts a number of years. 

I appreciate the criticism of my machine. I do not intend to knock any evaporator being discussed or used. They have all proven to be very effective in the control of varroa mites. They are also very efficient for what they are designed. I am only expressing my personal thoughts on how I perceive things.

Commercial Beekeepers in Western Canada and the USA are large we do not examine our beehives weekly most get examined thoroughly twice a year. We try to visit them as often as possible once every 2-3 weeks during the season. But then only to apply certain management practices depending on the time of year. When we decide to treat or medicate it is done to all hives as fast as possible. The season is short and the hives are many. 

Money is made by being efficient and a complete understanding of what is happening to the beehives and how to control the hive.


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## Terry G (Feb 6, 2005)

here is a link to my oxalic evaporator working in a beehive

http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/default.htm

or try this one

http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/images/terry5.jpg


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

>>I am worried about burning down beehives with the Varrox and Varrex style evaporators

Yes, that is my concern too.


>>The machine is for the large commercial beekeeper (2000 + colonies)- I operate 6000 colonies. I do not want to measure 2 grams of oxalic every time I move to a different hive. I need a mechanical way to meter the product (liquid is easy to meter). I need to be able and send employees and not worry about under dosing or over dosing of the product (burning down beehives due to being forgetful or lazy). When we are used to spending $12000 dollars on mite strips per year versus $80 per year on oxalic a 2 or 3 thousand dollar evaporator does not seem that expensive. As long as it is durable, trouble free, efficient, and lasts a number of years. 

Well, that just sold me on the idea
keep up the good work, how far along are you to making this machine avaliable to the public?


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## thekeeper (Nov 24, 2004)

When will it be available to purchase? And where could i purchase 1 now?


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## BWrangler (Aug 14, 2002)

Hi Guys,

Terry, you have covered all the bases for a commercial machine with your prototype. Please keep everyone informed of your progress.

I have found oxalic vapors to be a very effective and benign mite treatment. Once this method is perfected, commercial beekeepers will be able to clean up their hives and experience much of the health, overwinter and vitality that was seen before they became contaiminated with pesticides.

Regards
Dennis


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Is there any benifet to OA on treating T mites also, or is the treatment to late to effect T mites? Formic Acid works very very well on T mites, my formic treatment usually is through spring.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

This project reall excites me. To me I think the is the answer we are all looking for. The stats are behind OA, I'm told, and it apperently is a trouble free, residue free, easy on the bees, cheap treatment. 
I thought formic acid was the smoking gun. It is effective on my mites, cheap, but it is somewhat harder on the bees and finicy during hot weather patterns. 
This OA machine, combined with the mite tolerance bees being raised and proven far and wide, might just make beekeeping profitable and worry free.
Time will tell I guess,...


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## Terry G (Feb 6, 2005)

There is a long way to go with my oxalic evaporator to make it a safe machine to use. I just have 1 machine and showed it around to get feed back. I plan to have a saleable machine by mid summer. 

I will keep everyone posted.

I do understand that there is some formic acid created during sublimation. that means that T-mites are also some what controlled. 

A beekeeper in our province has used oxalic now for 5 years. quit using menthol boards 3 years ago. does not use formic acid. He sent a large random sample of bees, from various hives and bee locations, to the lab to test for T-mites. They tested his bees and could not find any T-mites. does this prove anything? I do not know? But it does not make me worry about T-mites.

T-mites have only been an issue 1 time in the last 10 years, and that was 10 years ago. We use formic reguarly.

We plan to treat with a Formic pad after we pull of the last honey super to knock down some mites, and then treat with Oxalic after we wrap the hives for winter (mid to late October). If Oxalic is as effective as everyone claims this should be all the mite treatment required per year to keep the mite loads in check. I supose one could always treat Oxalic again in the early spring before the hives start brooding up, just to sleep better at night.

It looks like Oxalic might be the Mite silver bullet. 

I am starting to ramble and not make any sense.


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## franc (Jan 7, 2003)

With the propane units theres no problem with forcing the vapors into the hive.The expanding air and OA create plenty of force to push the vapors into the hive.Theres no need or even a desire for outside air.


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## magnet-man (Jul 10, 2004)

Just my opinion but I think your price of a few thousand is too high. There is nothing in this machine that a commercial beekeeper or a hobbyist could not put together. I see that you are using three temperature controllers but cant tell how many zones you are monitoring or controlling. I will admit the controllers are going to give you very fine control of the temperature, but do you really need to control the temperature to the one degree. 

You can control the temperature within the limits needed by using standard Snap-Action Temperature Control switches. For those who dont know what that is it is little round temperature switch that you see on the bottom of a Mr. Coffee. http://www.tod.com/productdetail.asp?ProductID=2 If you wanted to have more accurate controls, temperature controllers are available from Mouser.com for a very reasonable price. 

If you are going to charge $2,000, people are going to make their own or there will be someone making a knock off for a whole lot less. Sure you may be able to patent the idea but you also have to enforce the patent. I dont think there is a large enough market at $2000 per unit to get into a patent fight. 

What you need is to shrink the item down to the size of a backyard fogger that treats one hive at a time. Dont use off the shelf temperature controllers. Use a pic controller and thermistors instead. Your design will be a lot smaller, lighter, cheaper, and more intimidating to copy. Sell the unit for $400 max so someone with 50 hives could justify purchasing it. Large commercial beekeepers would likely purchase a number of units. 

Well thats my two cents.


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## Terry G (Feb 6, 2005)

I appreciate the comment. I only used products that I already had on the shelf in my shop. This machine is only a prototype trying to get an idea to work. It works. 

I am a big promotor of automation and efficiency. 

You are right there are large temperature windows to work with. It does take a lot of energy to sumlimate oxalic and it is interesting to watch the temperature fluctuations in the evaporator as the liquid oxalic evaporates. (Same principle as a propane tank freezing up as the propane is used up in a home barbeque on high heat).

Can a "Snap-Action Temperature Control switch" keep up to the rapid temp fluctuations of evaporating oxalic? I might play with more mechanical logic and give it a try.

One advantage to digital temp controlers, I know when the evaporator is heated up and ready for use.


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## magnet-man (Jul 10, 2004)

I think the PIC chip and the thermistors is the way to go. After paying someone to write the program I estimated you would be down to about $60 per unit for chip, sensors, and maybe heating elements. With the PIC chip you could get to the user pressing one button.

I would also go DC instead of AC. Every beekeeper has a car or pickup truck with a battery in it. As far as controll of the heating element you would use pulse width modulation to turn the heating element on and off. 

I bet with a little thought the unit could be run with a simple 555 timer, a thermistor and a Potentiometer but a PIC would be better and more flexible.

What are you using for the heating elements? Halogen bulbs which is what a lot of laser printers use or nichrome wire?


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## Axtmann (Dec 29, 2002)

Magnet Man I think youre right, who will run a machine for $2000 or more and can treat only two hives at the time. With lots of luck we have in a few years a working treatment with metarhizium anisoplae and OA is gone.

On the test pictures is more acid fog outside than I ever thought it would be possible. Treating 6000 hives this way is really danger; the acid cloud can kill cattles 20 km away. 
We have an expression; somebody is shooting sparrows with a cannon. Big might be beautiful but is not always the solution. :>)

The price of $400 would be more reasonable but even than I would go for a small inside unit and a car battery or an alternator instead using a generator and 220 Volt. (Thats what we have here instead of 120V)

The argument with the heat inside and burning the wood doesnt work, I tested my on a Styrofoam hive and there was no problem. But I have no idea whats happen with the Varrox vaporizer with no heat protection under the tray.

In my opinion it will take much longer with this gigantic machine. 
There are no patent right if someone copied it for there own use.

Tell me what are the two cents for . one acid treatment?


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## magnet-man (Jul 10, 2004)

> Well thats my two cents


It means those are my thoughts.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

[ April 04, 2006, 08:30 AM: Message edited by: loggermike ]


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## Dick Allen (Sep 4, 2004)

'Your opinion is worth two cents' is used to belittle someone's ideas in a "debate". Some say it jokingly about their own opinions. That is my two cents worth on the subject.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

>>Treating 6000 hives this way is really danger; the acid cloud can kill cattles 20 km away.

Now really Axtmann. Do you really believe this? Lets get realistic here. 
Perhaps a machine of this efficiency is not cost effective for your operation, but perhaps it is for an operation of a larger scale.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

[ April 04, 2006, 08:29 AM: Message edited by: loggermike ]


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Terry:

I saw your machine in Saskatoon and was impressed with your idea. I'm glad that you have tried it and that all seems well. 24 hives in 15 minutes seems fairly impressive. I would like to get a vaporizor next fall as I'm afraid that check-mite will not function next season. It's been used in the area for 3 seasons. I also do not think that $2000 would be unreasonable. Keep up the good work.

Jean-Marc


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## magnet-man (Jul 10, 2004)

Dick, I hope you dont feel that I was belittling Terrys idea because that was not my intention. My intent was to critique the idea and to give useful suggestions. Now that is out of the way here are some more thoughts.

I have been thinking for some time how to pre-measure OA and have come up with the following ideas. 

1.	You could press the OA into pellets of 1 or 2 grams and end up with a product very similar to the menthol pellets. These pellets could than be sold for both your machine and anyone who makes a homemade crack pipe for their hobby hives. How many post have there been on the web site regarding the dosage and how to measure the OA? 

2.	In college I had a special pipe that would measure a pre-determine amount of special tobacco from a reserve. The bowl of this pipe was machined in a cylinder of aluminum and it served as an axis for the rest of the pipe to rotate around. To fill the bowl you would rotate the pipe with its tobacco reserve above the bowl, tap and rotate the pipe body back down. You could never spill your tobacco. You could do the same thing with a gas **** valve that can rotate 180 degrees. Seal one end of the ball valve so there is a bucket that holds the amount of OA that you want. The OA drops into the bucket you created in the ball and when you rotate the ball the OA drops into the evaporator. The advantage of this is you dont have a lot of liquid OA that could spill. The down side is I am somewhat concerned that the OA may cake and not fill the bucket reliable every time.

3.	Use idea number 2 to dispense the liquid OA. Advantage over your original idea is there is only one valve to operate. In your original idea you would have to make the valves such that only one valve could be open at a time, because sooner or later someone will open both valves and flood the evaporator with liquid OA.

4.	Your original idea had a feature where you could change the amount of OA you wanted to meter by changing the pipe length between the two valves. You could still meter the dosage to some degree if you make the fixed meter amount 2 grams. To meter 6 grams just rotate the handle of the valve 3 times. If you wanted a more fixed metering system, make your valve to meter 6 grams and use plugs that could be screwed into the bucket in the valve to decrease its volume. 

Now for power:

PIC chips run on dc current so make the logic portion of the unit run on batteries. You can then isolate the logic from the higher current used for the heaters. I would suggest you make the heating portion capable of running on either DC or AC current. If you are using nichrome wire, a simple mechanical or electronic relay and a heavy duty diode is likely all you will need. If you are using halogen bulbs, it will require more components to make it DC and AC. I might design the unit to take a plug-in-board that contains the DC or AC components needed. That way you can manufacture one unit and plug in the appropriate board.

A gas option would be nice but controlling the temperature would be harder. There are motorized gas valves out there but they are very pricey. You could control a standard gas valve with a stepper motor but then you are adding two or three hundred dollars and lots of R&D cost and time. Gas also introduces mechanical linkage and tubing and these become failure points. So electric seems to be the logical choice. 

When I estimated $60 for using a PIC I am also including the cost of the circuit board and all components on it. The PIC chip that I am thinking would work for you sell for less than $5 each. I would think there is someone else on this board that has worked with PIC chips before. It would be interesting to see what they think. 

If anyone is interested in learning more about PIC, do a Google search on "Pic chip".


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## Dick Allen (Sep 4, 2004)

>Dick, I hope you dont feel that I was belittling Terrys idea because that was not my intention.

No, not at all. I thought the '2 cents' question was being asked by someone outside the U.S. who may not have understood some of our colloquial phrases. My apologies for any misunderstaning.


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## dcross (Jan 20, 2003)

<<2. In college I had >>

ROFLMAO!


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Musta been some expensive tobacco !!


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

>>In college I had a special pipe

Who would of thought that that pipe might have some useful "legal" purposes  
We might be thanking all the pot head yet


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## pumpkinpiper (Mar 3, 2004)

May be a dumb question, but has anyone come out with or tried a so called "attractant' to cull mites in the hives. In theory something like a flycatcher used with some sort of attractant that could be disposed of when full or wheneverSteve


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

>>Vegetarian is just the indian word for poor hunter

Ha Ha Ha

>>tried a so called "attractant' to cull mites in the hives.

Our research quys were looking into just the same principle are you are mentioning. That was three years ago, and nothing has come from it. They were issolating certain reproductive and attractant phermones from the mites, to "lure" the mites into a trap, which then is removed and cleaned. I think in many ways, to artificially create a mite trap is frivalis. Drone brood culling does much the same job as they were searching for. And for a commercial beekeeper, it really isnt pratical.
So I think they didnt get to far into reaserch of this method. They started concentrating on improvment on bee genetics and work with formic acid in confined wintering sheds( which is actually real pratical for beekeepers up here)


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## Dick Allen (Sep 4, 2004)

Here's a short abstract from the folks at SFU:

http://esa.confex.com/esa/2001/techprogram/paper_144.htm


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## magnet-man (Jul 10, 2004)

I still might have my pipe in my college memories box. I will check and maybe post some pictures.


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## franc (Jan 7, 2003)

At what temp. Does the OA turn into a liquid anyone know ? TIA


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

I hope all this doesn't turn into just a pipe dream.  

I like the pellet idea. A reloading type powder dispenser might be a realistic idea too.

Diane Sumato gave a speach last year at our meeting and told us of some of her research using different light spectrums to identify phermones and other chemical compounds that would draw mites to them for traping. I believe that part of the research was to develope a colony without the mite attracting scent, or a masking scent to confuse the mites.


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## Terry G (Feb 6, 2005)

OA turns to lquid at 101 degrees Celcius.

It would be difficult to make a powder dispenser b/c OA powder is clumpy and sticky due to the 2 water molecules attached to it. kind of like what a bag of sugar looks like after it sitts on the shelf for a year. or like moist salt in a salt shaker


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## dickm (May 19, 2002)

>>OA turns to lquid at 101 degrees Celcius.<<

As I understand it O/A "sublimates". This is the place where ice cubes go in your freezer. It turns directly from a solid to a gas without turning into a liquid first. I've read that it does this starting at 150 degrees F. At 180 degrees F it breaks down into formic acid and other things. While this won't kill bees there are side effects with Formic. IE:Queen mortality/brood loss. Heating slowly is better as is cooling off the heater between hives.
I used O/A last fall. I'm sure I killed the mites. Still, I'm standig at 40% losses now and the winter is still full force. I think the O/A story is still being written.

Dick Marron


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## franc (Jan 7, 2003)

Theres so many ways something like this could be made but I'll have to agree a liquid would be the easiest for transfer.Unless your using a 12v element type.Has anyone tried using heat of compression or would the exhaust/vapor have too much pressure.Just a thought,good luck with your invention Terry


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>As I understand it O/A "sublimates". This is the place where ice cubes go in your freezer. It turns directly from a solid to a gas without turning into a liquid first.

I've put it in the cup when the cup was too hot and it melts and then imediately boils. You can see the liquid. I would guess a small amount of pressure could keep it liquid.


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## Terry G (Feb 6, 2005)

I am confused with melting points and boiling points and breakdoen points of Oxalic. Can some one click on the link to the MSDS sheet for Oxalic acid that I purchased from Univar Canada. And expain theses temps to me. 

All this talk is confusing me

http://msds.univarcanada.com/wercswv/wercswv.asp?A=putHTM%00&RID=F%5FPDF%5C%27EN%27%5C%27RENS%27%5C%27LA1922%27%5C%27MTR%27%5C%27ANSI%27%5C%7Bts+%272003%2D07%2D23+08%3A10%3A15%27%7 D

I am having fun with my invention. I am on my 4th prototype. I have taken of the liquid tank and the electonics and went back to the basic evaporator style. I need to rethink the controls . I had problems with the Brass ballvalves corroding, I guess that Oxalic is more corrossive than I thought. 

I appreciate the comments and feedback


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## Terry G (Feb 6, 2005)

Sorry If I buggered the screen width with my last posting, It was a long web link


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## magnet-man (Jul 10, 2004)

Terry what are you using for your heat source?


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## Terry G (Feb 6, 2005)

watlow nozzel heater 1 inch by 1 inch 100 watts @ 120 volts. Also use a 700 watt heat gun element to heat the air that blows the OA vapors into the hive.
I have a link to the heater that I use on an other thread on this site I will find it for you


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## Terry G (Feb 6, 2005)

frac, I have also played with what you are talking about, I think. 

Has anyone tried using heat of compression or would the exhaust/vapor have too much pressure.Just a thought,good luck with your invention Terry

One of my first attempts was to fill a small propane tank with OA and heat the tank to just past the boiling point. Theory is when the chemical boils, the tank preasures up with OA gas then with a manifold setup on the tank a person could fumigate multiple hives in a few seconds. Problems I found were: Massive preasures inside tank, no control off amount of product gassed into hive, no control 

I also learned about a gas law. As preasure is released from a preasurised vessel temperature drops quite rapidly. Temp maintainance of propane 
tank was difficult multiple electric heaters were required.

I had fun with it for a while


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## Terry G (Feb 6, 2005)

Sorry I mis spelled your name Franc


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## franc (Jan 7, 2003)

I was thinking of something alittle different.More like a piston pump where the intake would allow OA along with maybe some preheated air into the cylinder.You'd just control when the OA would be released.


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## YBCute (Oct 18, 2004)

Well, I can say that if you spent anymore than the $4.00 that I spent to make an vaporized acid injector that works a-1 then you spent to much. I got everything from Goodwill. Guys there isn't anything that can't be made, and cheap! Just THINK!!!!!


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## Terry G (Feb 6, 2005)

some of us like to spend money.


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## magnet-man (Jul 10, 2004)

YBCute, can you explain how you made your injector?


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## BWrangler (Aug 14, 2002)

Hi Guys,

It's very hard to scale up most beekeeping practices from a hobbiest or sideliner perspective to a commercial perspective. Time is the most precious commodity a commercial beekeeper has. When thousands of hives are managed in a northern climate, the short season only allows just basic management techniques and they have to be effiencently, effectively and fast. Commercial beekeepers work fast, long and hard.

If an additional 10 minutes per hive was needed for a treatment, that would be 1000 hours worth or 83 man days at 12 hours/day. Throw in some travel time and I'm sure it could take longer to make one treatment than my entire growing season :>))) Imagine if more than one treatment was needed!

My little oxalic pipe has it's place but it's sure not on the commercial scale. An approach like Terry's is definately needed for a commercial beekeeper. The treatments should be fast and can be combined with other seasonal activities when time isn's so critical.

From a commercial perspective, an ideal machine would only take a couple of seconds to treat a hive. It would be fast, rugged and safe. 

It's also very hard for a commercial beekeeper to adjust to a hobbiest perspective. I kept a dozen hives after leaving commercial beekeeping. One nice weekend, I thought I would go out and leisurely work the hives and enjoy the day. I hopped out of the truck and in less than 30 minutes I was very sweaty and done. Old habits are hard to break :>)))

Regards
Dennis


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## BubbaBob (Jan 18, 2005)

Seems going 12 volt, with converter for those that want it 120, would make better sense for commercial use. Around here at least. We all have battery powered, solar recharged bear fences in these parts...a unit with a couple of 30 ft leads to hook to the 12 volt would be convenient/fast.

BubbaBob


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