# May have finally turned the corner ...



## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

If you have only made it through 1 winter with TF bees, that is a good start but you are not out of the woods yet so dont let your guard down


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## fieldsofnaturalhoney (Feb 29, 2012)

Congratulations, & good keys. Swarms are not that reliable because you never know what your getting until later, & may have relied on treatments. Wow, that's a lot of stacks. I think trying TF from packages is an oxymoron, which you obviously figured out.


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## Dan the bee guy (Jun 18, 2015)

I don't think I could of done that for 4 years


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

BuckeyeBeek said:


> Life is good.


Hopefully, others will read your post and save themselves three years and $1,200 of heartache. Local, survivor.


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## BuckeyeBeek (Apr 16, 2013)

Harley Craig said:


> If you have only made it through 1 winter with TF bees, that is a good start but you are not out of the woods yet so dont let your guard down


Thanks Harley, good advice.


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## BuckeyeBeek (Apr 16, 2013)

Riverderwent said:


> Hopefully, others will read your post and save themselves three years and $1,200 of heartache. Local, survivor.


Well said, wisdom is taking advice from others and learning from their mistakes. Something I shoulda done! 

This will be the first year that I won't need to buy bees. The problem now is that I seem to be addicted to the rush that comes with installing packages. $100 bucks saved will get me over it. For every trapped swarm, now looks like a 100 dollar bill to me.


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## BuckeyeBeek (Apr 16, 2013)

fieldsofnaturalhoney said:


> Swarms are not that reliable because you never know what your getting until later


Good point. Perhaps it is just coinsidence but the 2 swarms I trapped last May are the 2 strongest colonies in my bee yard. I suppose they could be feral bees. They seem pretty resilient. I'll use those to make more queens this Spring.


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## lharder (Mar 21, 2015)

Seems like some stubbornness is a useful trait for TF. But not too stubborn to keep trying packages of treated bees. 

I'm in the same kind of boat though I brought in some better queens right off the bat and didn't go through the package experience. Since my bees are in their TF infancy, I'm considering monitoring more closely for mites in late summer, early fall, and put on some robber screens to reduce hive to hive mite transfer from collapsing hives. I did lose one 2nd winter hive from apparent mite issues this fall. 

Good luck with your increase this season.


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## Colino (May 28, 2013)

BuckeyeBeek said:


> Good point. Perhaps it is just coinsidence but the 2 swarms I trapped last May are the 2 strongest colonies in my bee yard. I suppose they could be feral bees. They seem pretty resilient. I'll use those to make more queens this Spring.


The 800 lb Gorilla in the room is that if the swarms were caught late, they have had a bit of a brood break by leaving a lot of mites behind in the mother hive and the queen isn't laying right away. So the mite counts could be low enough that they would winter fine. Your real test is if they are alive after next winter.


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## BuckeyeBeek (Apr 16, 2013)

Colino said:


> The 800 lb Gorilla in the room is that if the swarms were caught late, they have had a bit of a brood break by leaving a lot of mites behind in the mother hive and the queen isn't laying right away. So the mite counts could be low enough that they would winter fine. Your real test is if they are alive after next winter.


Thanks for the feedback, I understand your point. They were trapped in early May. Just having bees this time of year has me all giddy, I have enough "local" inventory now I can make more queens this May and make up some more nucs and build more colonies for next year.


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## BuckeyeBeek (Apr 16, 2013)

lharder said:


> Seems like some stubbornness is a useful trait for TF. But not too stubborn to keep trying packages of treated bees.


Over the years of my life I've found all kinds of different ways to piss away hard earned money. Add package bees to the list. LOL


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

7 out of 10 is a darn good start beb. propagating from your survivors is a darn good plan. jmho, but i would say the chances are better than not that you will end up with line of hearty bees that can be kept off treatments. i'm not sure where you weigh in on artificial feeds, but i would consider allowing the bees to regulate their operations based on the natural flows. the exception would be a nuc produced late in the season with a newly mated queen, for which i would space out a quart or 3 of syrup, enough to get a good broodnest established. consider using a little of your surplus honey from your established colonies to fatten up the starters in the fall if needed. good luck!


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## BuckeyeBeek (Apr 16, 2013)

squarepeg said:


> 7 out of 10 is a darn good start beb. propagating from your survivors is a darn good plan. jmho, but i would say the chances are better than not that you will end up with line of hearty bees that can be kept off treatments. i'm not sure where you weigh in on artificial feeds, but i would consider allowing the bees to regulate their operations based on the natural flows. the exception would be a nuc produced late in the season with a newly mated queen, for which i would space out a quart or 3 of syrup, enough to get a good broodnest established. consider using a little of your surplus honey from your established colonies to fatten up the starters in the fall if needed. good luck!


Thanks for weighing in. sometimes I feel like a squarepeg too when my local seasoned beek friends have been telling me all along that the only way to get them through winter is to treat w apiguard in Aug/Sept. Last year I did give them some homemade patties made from the powdered protein and sugar mixed at about a 1:2 ratio. I hope that doesn't exclude me from the TF "club". I just didn't want to see any more dead bees.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

BuckeyeBeek said:


> Thanks for weighing in. sometimes I feel like a squarepeg too when my local seasoned beek friends have been telling me all along that the only way to get them through winter is to treat w apiguard in Aug/Sept.






BuckeyeBeek said:


> Last year I did give them some homemade patties made from the powdered protein and sugar mixed at about a 1:2 ratio. I hope that doesn't exclude me from the TF "club". I just didn't want to see any more dead bees.


not at all beb. feeding is not evil and is even indicated at times. my personal opinion is that the natural diet boosts the bees' immune system and gives them added protection against pathogens, but the literature is unclear about that. 

the main reason i don't feed (with some exceptions) is that i want the bees to brood up and brood down in sync with the natural flows. i don't want to 'confuse' them into thinking there is a strong pollen or nectar flow when there is not. it's about not interfering with the timing of important colony operations.

one example of this is the brood break my bees get during our summer dearth. this break may be part of why they tolerate mites off treatments as well as they do. it would be more profitable to harvest another super of honey after our spring flow and feed back syrup to replace it, but that in turn would likely cause the colony to continue brooding instead of taking their natural break.


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

Be sure to have plenty of boxes ready. Overwintered colonies' populations explode in the spring time.


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

squarepeg said:


> one example of this is the brood break my bees get during our summer dearth. this break may be part of why they tolerate mites off treatments as well as they do.


That is actually a pretty brilliant hypothesis. I had been mentally correlating good results with not feeding based on just the possible dietary benefits. The possible effect on brood breaks seems so obvious now that you mention it.


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## jlaudiofan (Feb 21, 2016)

Congratulations! I really hope this year is extremely productive for you and your bees!


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## Dan the bee guy (Jun 18, 2015)

Please let us know your mite counts this year. Very interested in how they do this year.


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