# Hot climate keepers, treatment advice?



## Kyeman (Apr 15, 2018)

I have my first hive up and running and they are doing fantastic so far. I'm new enough where I have never treated for mites, so I'm really green on this subject. 

Do you have issues with summer treatment using MAQS due to heat? I have read that in hot temps (like we traditionally have here in central FL) MAQS can be too strong for bees and cause them to leave or even cause some brood kill. Also, we have the Brazilian Pepper flow around September and I know a lot of people treat in August.

I'm really just trying to draw from people's experience here, I can read all day long, but I feel like I need direct input for my environment. I plan to have 2 hives going by summer, any advice for timing and preferred medication for a hobbyist keeper in Florida? 


Thanks!


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## texanbelchers (Aug 4, 2014)

I do OAV 4x at 5 day intervals just after I pull in July or August and again in December when nearly broodless. I haven't tried the other treatments; couldn't figure out timing with the weather. If someone else has I'm listening.


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## jimmyg (Jan 9, 2018)

I am new also and wondering about this as well. Tennessee gets pretty warm come June - Sept. I have Mite Away quick strips on standby ready to go when the time is right. I am still studying a lot trying to get this stuff figured out. 
Im sure several experienced beeks will chime in on this soon.


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## psm1212 (Feb 9, 2016)

I use OAV, which is just not ideal when brood is present, even when done in any combination of series. This Spring, I have forced brood breaks on all of my hives through double-screen (Snelgrove) board manipulations and treated once the hives became completely broodless. That is a lot of work and not for everyone. 

I have always been way too frightened of MAQS. I think If I lived in North Alabama, I would try it. But I just don't think I can get away with it here. 

For the past two Falls, I have used 1/2 doses of Apiguard. The manufacturer has a recommended procedure for use of a 1/2 dose of the product on its website. See #14 on this link https://vitaeurope.s3.amazonaws.com/VitaApiguardFAQ201709.pdf. Instead of a full 50mg dose 2 weeks apart, you do a 1/2 dose of 25mg, one week apart. Even with this, I will abandon ship if the temps climb much over 90 degrees. I try to pick a cool time in September or October. I have had EXCELLENT results with this. As in 0 or 1 mite in alcohol washes of 300 bees post-treatment. 

Additionally, I never let a broodless situation go to waste. If a hive swarms, you know you will be broodless 21 days from the date of that swarm. So I hit it with a single shot of OAV. 

Also, Apivar is not temperature dependent (or at least that is my understanding) but I have never used it. I am considering working Apivar into the rotation in particularly warm Fall weather. 

BTW, I keep about 20 hives about 10 miles north of the Florida line. It is hot and humid. Always.


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## Kyeman (Apr 15, 2018)

Thanks for the info! It seems like we have to do a little bit of a song and dance, finding the balance of what works without aggravating or hurting the hive.


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## Robbin (May 26, 2013)

I always treat twice, early spring and late fall, but I sometimes treat in July or August. Spring, before the build up, Fall and I mean thanksgiving in Florida, when the numbers have been drawn down. If time permits I'll treat in jul or aug after the supers come off, but there is a lot of brood then. But mite drop counts following a treatment are in the thousands. Oh, forgot to say I treat with OAV.


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## sjj (Jan 2, 2007)

Kyeman said:


> ... really just trying to draw from people's experience...


I did a search with: 'Ácido oxálico'. 
Hot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPesU5ai3s0&ytbChannel=Apicultura Cuilapa, Santa Rosa, Guatemala


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Apivar works well at high temperatures.


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## Jadeguppy (Jul 19, 2017)

You didn't mention it, but small hive beetles is a big Florida issue. Sprinkle some diatomacious earth on the ground under the hives. It helps to keep beetle populations down as it kills the larvae in the soil. It also kills ants and fleas and is safe to use.


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## Kyeman (Apr 15, 2018)

Jadeguppy said:


> You didn't mention it, but small hive beetles is a big Florida issue. Sprinkle some diatomacious earth on the ground under the hives. It helps to keep beetle populations down as it kills the larvae in the soil. It also kills ants and fleas and is safe to use.


Just now seeing the last few posts, yes SHB went from a minor to major issue after almost a month of rain and overcast. I have 2 beetle blasters going and I need to throw a CD case with some mineral oil + vinegar on the bottom board. I will definitely grab a bag of DE and get that going as well. I have a screened bottom board, but I keep the IPM tray in. I will put some DE on there as well as I have seen some larva on the tray.

I really want to use OA exclusively since it is not something mites can build resistance to and it seems to work well. I have been looking for a good way to deliver the OA. I have seen various methods mentioned. Dribble, vaporize, and using a fogger. The fogger seems to be very controversial, but everyone who I have seen that uses the method said it works great. Then again only a few of them actually tested before and after results. The people that did test had a small range of result, but one keeper said the result was from 7 to 1 mite per wash. To me the dribble seems like the easiest proven method, so I am a little puzzled by people lugging car batteries for vaporizers.


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## Fivej (Apr 4, 2016)

The main reason for using OAV over dribble is that you can do a series of treatments when you have brood and not kill your bees. You should not do a series of dribbles. Both methods are equally effective when the hive is broodless. Beekeepers in the north prefer OAV in the winter because you do not have to open the hive and expose the bees to the cold. So we lug out the car battery. J


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## Robbin (May 26, 2013)

Kyeman said:


> so I am a little puzzled by people lugging car batteries for vaporizers.


+1 on OAV, I've used everything except OA in a fogger. When you see a drop count in the thousands 24 to 48 hours after using OAV, you become a believer. A suggestion for SHB, I have them in spades in Fl. 
Freeman beetle traps (oil trays) under every hive and under every nuc. no Larva every reach the ground, they die in the trays, I've killed as many as 100 beetles in an hour on a hive that was badly infested. The taller the hive, the more real-estate the SHB has to play in without coming into contact with the trays. But Early and late in the season, when you have just brood boxes on, it's deadly. I don't ever buy a standard bottom board anymore. I buy the oil trays for every hive I've got.


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## Kyeman (Apr 15, 2018)

Fivej said:


> The main reason for using OAV over dribble is that you can do a series of treatments when you have brood and not kill your bees. You should not do a series of dribbles. Both methods are equally effective when the hive is broodless. Beekeepers in the north prefer OAV in the winter because you do not have to open the hive and expose the bees to the cold. So we lug out the car battery. J


Ah thank you for the explanation, that makes sense. I didn't know that you can't do a series of dribble. 



Robbin said:


> +1 on OAV, I've used everything except OA in a fogger. When you see a drop count in the thousands 24 to 48 hours after using OAV, you become a believer. A suggestion for SHB, I have them in spades in Fl.
> Freeman beetle traps (oil trays) under every hive and under every nuc. no Larva every reach the ground, they die in the trays, I've killed as many as 100 beetles in an hour on a hive that was badly infested. The taller the hive, the more real-estate the SHB has to play in without coming into contact with the trays. But Early and late in the season, when you have just brood boxes on, it's deadly. I don't ever buy a standard bottom board anymore. I buy the oil trays for every hive I've got.


Yeah fellow Floridian here, SHB for days! Where do you get the oil trays from? I want, I need! 

EDIT: Do you just get the trays and slide them under your screen bottom board? I see some selling the entire bottom board. Have you had any trouble with the larva actually not falling through the SBB and just crawling out the front?


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## Kamon A. Reynolds (Apr 15, 2012)

Kyeman said:


> I have my first hive up and running and they are doing fantastic so far. I'm new enough where I have never treated for mites, so I'm really green on this subject.
> 
> Do you have issues with summer treatment using MAQS due to heat? I have read that in hot temps (like we traditionally have here in central FL) MAQS can be too strong for bees and cause them to leave or even cause some brood kill. Also, we have the Brazilian Pepper flow around September and I know a lot of people treat in August.
> 
> ...


I hate formic (maqs) kills to much brood and shuts down the queens laying. Apiguard works some better. We use Apiguard cut down and use it in conjuction with Oxalic acid vapor and get good results


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## Robbin (May 26, 2013)

I get the oil traps from eheartwood.com They are the only place that sells them for 5 frame nucs that I've found. I try to buy them 3 at a time to save on shipping but they aren't cheap. About twice as much as a standard bottom board. So I quit buying the bottom boards and just went straight to the trays. Saves me the money of buying the bottom boards first. I still have a pile of bottom boards I don't use anymore. I keep about as many nucs as I do main hives and the smaller nucs are more susceptible to SHB, so they all get oil trays as well.


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## Kyeman (Apr 15, 2018)

Tennessee's Bees LLC said:


> I hate formic (maqs) kills to much brood and shuts down the queens laying. Apiguard works some better. We use Apiguard cut down and use it in conjuction with Oxalic acid vapor and get good results


I have heard numerous horror stories with formic (even dead queens), especially in hot regions. Thanks for the input.




Robbin said:


> I get the oil traps from eheartwood.com They are the only place that sells them for 5 frame nucs that I've found. I try to buy them 3 at a time to save on shipping but they aren't cheap. About twice as much as a standard bottom board. So I quit buying the bottom boards and just went straight to the trays. Saves me the money of buying the bottom boards first. I still have a pile of bottom boards I don't use anymore. I keep about as many nucs as I do main hives and the smaller nucs are more susceptible to SHB, so they all get oil trays as well.


I'm so glad you gave me this info before I built up my equipment stock. I'm used to nucs that are just basically a plywood box (no open bottom) so I'm guessing that you build yours?

$40, oof! You weren't kidding, but they are cypress which is a huge plus to me.


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## Robbin (May 26, 2013)

Yea, but a regular bottom board or screened board is almost 20, so don't do what I did, and buy both. 
And the nuc ones aren't any cheaper. I buy nuc bodies from Brushy mT or Mann Lake and they are just like hive bodes, no bottom. I've got some nucs that are boxes with a top, they are just for swarm traps now. I keep nucs year round, so you've got to treat them like mini hives and they need to act like mini hives. You can sell queens or bees from them or use them as your own mated queen source. Lot easier to raise queens in nucs then to try to raise them in full size hives. My nucs sit waist high, and it's easy to find even a virgin in 5 frams. Thou I winter in a double stack, so it's 10 frames after it gets built up.


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## Kyeman (Apr 15, 2018)

Robbin said:


> Yea, but a regular bottom board or screened board is almost 20, so don't do what I did, and buy both.
> And the nuc ones aren't any cheaper. I buy nuc bodies from Brushy mT or Mann Lake and they are just like hive bodes, no bottom. I've got some nucs that are boxes with a top, they are just for swarm traps now. I keep nucs year round, so you've got to treat them like mini hives and they need to act like mini hives. You can sell queens or bees from them or use them as your own mated queen source. Lot easier to raise queens in nucs then to try to raise them in full size hives. My nucs sit waist high, and it's easy to find even a virgin in 5 frams. Thou I winter in a double stack, so it's 10 frames after it gets built up.


Good deal, yeah I actually have a 5 frame nuc getting started right now. I did a walkaway split about 4 days ago, I'm a little worried I didn't give them enough open brood, but it is in my nature to overthink that stuff. Have you ever had a virgin queen fly off on you? What is the advantage to wintering in a double stack on a nuc? Isn't that just more space for them to heat or is it mainly to bolster the population before winter?


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## Robbin (May 26, 2013)

Kyeman said:


> Good deal, yeah I actually have a 5 frame nuc getting started right now. I did a walkaway split about 4 days ago, I'm a little worried I didn't give them enough open brood, but it is in my nature to overthink that stuff. Have you ever had a virgin queen fly off on you? What is the advantage to wintering in a double stack on a nuc? Isn't that just more space for them to heat or is it mainly to bolster the population before winter?


I have had a virgin fly BACK while I was there, I didn't see her leave.

Double box nucs gives 5 frames for brood, 5 frames for honey to over winter with. I like to put them on in the middle of the flow so they fill them quickly so they are honey bound and can't be used for brood. I've only lost one double box nuc over winter. They winter very well, at least down here in Fl. Bees don't warm the hive per say, they warm each other by clustering together. so extra honey isn't hard for them to keep warm, but it is extra food so they don't starve. Down here my bees can usually break cluster every day and can use food anywhere in the hive. They can also usually fly on nice days and make cleansing flights. In the south, bees rarely actually freeze, what the do is STARVE over the winter and people think the winter kill is because it was cold. In reality, they went into winter queenless, or without the stores to make it thru the winter. Having overwintered nucs is great, you have a strong nuc ready to replace any hive you lost over the winter and you can sell strong nucs before anybody else has had the time to raise them.


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## Live Oak (Oct 11, 2008)

Kyeman said:


> I have heard numerous horror stories with formic (even dead queens), especially in hot regions. Thanks for the input.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You may want to consider the Mighty Mite Killer. It is as effective as MAQS or Formic Pro but without the harsh chemical effects. They come in 5, 8, and 10 frame versions so you can treat any size hive you may have as long as it is a Langstroth type design. If you would like to get more information on the Mighty Mite Killer, there is a Facebook user's group where any questions can be addressed.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/275791919813444/


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