# Test grafts



## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Almost a month earlier than last year. Weather is decent, I have lots of drones, thanks to overwintering very large hives. Question is, what will the weather be like for mating flights?
I feel like we are ahead in our season in the Pacific Northwest. Light Maple Flow going on now and some hives are starting to backfill a bit. Swarm traps up...just in case. I think Calif Drought and their unusally warm winter is touching us a little.

Only a couple to start. Just being capped today. We'll see what happens.




























This was several years ago...April 19, 2008. Hopefully we WON'T have a repeat of this. Our spring weather the last few years had been fairly mild.










Heres how that simulated swarm I made recently is doing after 5 days..drawing out the new frames nicely. Must have ended up with 10# of bees in this one. Sure looks clean 










And the walk away nuc QC I made from some of the brood I took from them. This should be hatching next week sometime.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

The mating flight weather is sunny and warm. Go ahead to do a full force graft.
Nice looking morel mushrooms there. Yummy!


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## burns375 (Jul 15, 2013)

I've always wondered why queen cells look so much like morels.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Ya, I put those couple cells in a finisher above excluder and got a full three bars from the grid from this young queen. Not the biggest queen I have, but a prolific one. Starter should be stronger now that more of the brood has hatched.










They are loving the sun as much as I am...


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Yes, a prolific queen is what we are looking for. She doesn't has to be really big. Sometimes a big
queen is rather slow. From reading and what I believe the amount of RJ a queen received while in development is the key
difference in her laying ability. 
In nature the strongest one always survived. The mushrooms have their dome shape like the shiitake and morels, etc 
structure to withstand the elements well. Naturally, of course that the bees have adapted this structure for the cells and
queen cells. The weakest spot I think is at the end tip of the qc where there is no web like combs attached.


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## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

Lauri, how many queen cells will you leave the split? I left too many last year and they ended up swarming. This year I'll leave just two. 

I have a couple queens mating this week and we have had strong winds all week. Winds 15 gust 25 today, 90 degrees.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Here is the nuc I made with that frame with queen cells. I make walk away nucs a lot stronger to start than a nuc I would make in late May with a capped queen cell or virgin. The bees in this nuc shown are all young bees, all foragers were allowed to fly back to the old location a few days before I made up nucs. So the bees I put in the nucs stay there. No threat of chilled brood or swarming from this bunch. Even with three Q cells, I don't worry about cast swarm issues with a nuc this small under these conditions. 










Now if I had broken up this hive Because they had ALREADY made swarm cells, that would be a different story. Even a small nuc with multiples can throw off cast swarms in that case. They apparently are already predisposed to do it.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Second batch @ about 2 1/2 days draw...getting better. Weather here is absolutly beautiful. Made up 2 more cell builder hives today.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Looking at the photos of queen cells, I wonder why they look the way they do. How does the texture of the cells' surface help the cell work?


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Notice the texture on the cells in JZBZ cup is slightly different than the texture of the cells on the frame, where they built them where they wanted. I'm sure the texture is their structural engineering method for a stronger cell. Man, they are tough when they are ripe.


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## burns375 (Jul 15, 2013)

my guess too is stength. They start smooth and additional hex is added after for support.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Lauri said:


> Notice the texture on the cells in JZBZ cup is slightly different than the texture of the cells on the frame, where they built them where they wanted. I'm sure the texture is their structural engineering method for a stronger cell. Man, they are tough when they are ripe.


You and DanielY are getting me inspired to grow some queens myself. If my eyes work well enuf to see the right age larvae.


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## burns375 (Jul 15, 2013)

sqkcrk said:


> You and DanielY are getting me inspired to grow some queens myself. If my eyes work well enuf to see the right age larvae.



Every beekeeper with atleast a few hives should atleast try, local on the flow queens are so nice. Our spring has been steller so far, much better than the past 2 years. 

1 and 2 day grafts...


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Nice Burns! Doesn't spring feel wonderful??

Mark, too bad you don't live closer to me. I'd show you how to do it and cook you dinner


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## TWall (May 19, 2010)

sqkcrk said:


> You and DanielY are getting me inspired to grow some queens myself. If my eyes work well enuf to see the right age larvae.


Mark,

Magnifying glasses. It slows me down a little but, I check every larvae witha magnifying glass before I graft it.

Tom


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## burns375 (Jul 15, 2013)

Lauri said:


> Nice Burns! Doesn't spring feel wonderful??r


O yes favorite time of the year. Unfortunately we're suppose to recieve freezing temps tonight and tommorow, usually the city stays a bit warmer. Fingers crossed the open cells stay warm!


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Lauri said:


> Mark, too bad you don't live closer to me. I'd show you how to do it and cook you dinner


Now yer just flirtin'. :lpf:


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

Lauri said:


> I'd show you how to do it and cook you dinner


Actually, this sounds like a great business model - hold a beekeeping class, and then afterwards do a BBQ, or fish fry, or some other fun outdoor cookery to allow the students to socialize and discuss bee stuff. 

For someone with good bee knowledge and basic cooking skills (or spouse with same) I bet it would be well attended and a good little money maker. I know I would love to go to something like that.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

shin,
you're taking all the fun out of the conversation.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

RELEASE The Kraken!


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

So you did not snap a pic of the virgin queen?
Can you even find her running around inside the hive?
Would be nice to see what she look like.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

It was too cool and rainy to dig through the hive. I was just doing a cell hatch check so I could place the virgins from the incubator.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Everything ran a month late here last year...


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

Ok Lauri, Please stop using that fisheye lens!! :lpf:

Seriously, nice cells. Can't wait to see what's inside.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Yes, the last few days had been colder than usual at this time of the year.
Hopefully the next 2 weeks will be warmer so the virgins can do
their mating flight. Keep our fingers crossed!


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

beepro said:


> So you did not snap a pic of the virgin queen?
> Can you even find her running around inside the hive?
> Would be nice to see what she look like.


Found her today and got her marked. 











A little early yet to be looking for eggs. Nice sized for a youngin'. Weather has been excellent for mating flights. I was lucky on the timing. 

Made up a couple finisher hives too. Just got them rearranged with queen excluder before it started to rain. I have 24 hour started cells ready to transfer and a grid that may or may not be ready this evening to go into the finisher. It might be a job for tomorrow morning depending on the hatch/or lack of it in the grid. 

I've had problems in the past with comb being built on finished cells in _queenright _finishers. I'm still working out the 'bugs' with them'. I liked the starter/finisher _queenless_ colonies much better, but need to get the queenright finishers figured out for more production.











Shook more bees into my starter hive too..Hence the fashion statement. Excuse me while I have my coffee


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Lauri said:


> Almost a month earlier than last year. Weather is decent, I have lots of drones, thanks to overwintering very large hives. Question is, what will the weather be like for mating flights?





beepro said:


> The mating flight weather is sunny and warm. Go ahead to do a full force graft.





Lauri said:


> Nice sized for a youngin'. Weather has been excellent for mating flights. I was lucky on the timing.


Nice big lookin queen there. Looks like she got mated alright. Her body is like 3x bigger, fat and plump.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Got a good take on 30 grafts. Transfered these to queenright finisher above excluder










Shook more bees into the starter and put in 60 grid cells. We'll see how good it is now.

Virgin hot out of the incubator.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Second batch mated, laying, amazingly early. 



















Notice in the photo below, the comb on the left side of the frame is dark yellow, drawn earlier than the right side which is quite light in color. WIth these partially foundationless frames, they sometimes tend to draw out the front of the frame, near the top entrance first, then center foundation, then the back of the frame farthest from the entrance. You can see the difference in feed between the two sides.
One of the reasons I take pictures in the hives. I didn't notice this when I inspected the frame. Just now saw the difference when I looked at the photo. 
Notice there is a cell size difference too. A difference in feed AND attitude.

Left side was drawn with an overwintered queen heading the colony. Right side was drawn with a virgin/newly mated queen.









You can't see it but cells are full of eggs and larva. Natural Forage is plentiful.










I have about 15 nucs from the same batch that are in the same stage. Weather was perfect for mating flights.

What a great start to our Western Wa. season. Glad I took the chance on some early grafts. You just never know....


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Here are the results from the test grafts in the OP. Like I said, a full month earlier than last year. 
Hatch date 4/16/14-Western Washington State










(Back side of frame was fully capped)









I had the resources to make my mating nucs stronger this spring. The young newly mated queens appear better fed.

This one is from a 4-22-14 hatch


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## 22DPac (Jun 24, 2012)

They look awesome!! I hope to try my hand at grafting in the next couple of weeks...


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## marshmasterpat (Jun 26, 2013)

Yep Lauri's pictures of her results makes me even more determined to graft.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Overwintering full sized colonies on half sized deeps gives me some prime frames for making up mating nucs










Nice fresh comb for grafting











Heres how those colonies looked early this spring. 


















Even though they have easy access to the empty side, they never make a mess, even when they get crowded. They quickly outgrow there confinement though. Keep extra modified box's and frames ready. A great constant supply of mini frames for mating nucs all summer. 

And last summer:










New frames getting drawn and filled. Extra room on the sides makes for more capped honey stored near brood cells.










Heres a similar made frame in January:










Tha half sized deeps (9 1/4") take some time to make, but I like the quality and reliability of the finished product.
I just cut down frames and remill the one end of the top and bottom bar.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

I don't understand why you have to put so much time and energy to modify these frames. Is it really necessary?
I use all standard med. frames from overwintering to making mating nucs.
I just make up temp. mating nucs from the standard langs frames to harvest the queens after mating.
And then recombine these frames to expand the existing hives after harvesting these queens. A minimum of
2 frames are needed to hold the new virgin queen for 2 weeks until she got mated. It works for me so far.
But I am sure you have your reason to doing things around your beeyard. What is so flexible with your half frame
method?


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## burns375 (Jul 15, 2013)

beepro said:


> I don't understand why you have to put so much time and energy to modify these frames. Is it really necessary?
> ?


I do 4x2 queen castles out 10 frame deeps. Put in 3 luan dividers. I can quickly convert them in either direction based on needs. The entrance is simple. An inner cover on the bottom of the box with the rim notched on each side for an entrance. 3 diveders sit in the recess of the bottom inner cover to match up with luan dividers and entrances. 

You could do the same with mediums, but I think deeps are better in this situation. The nucs can quickly outgrow this setup. The heat of all 4 clusters lets them grow fast, and week nucs get by much easier. I had one nuc this spring abscond once the queen mated, flow was very good. Lately I've been doing 3x3's or 2x5's which seems to give them a bit more space to grow.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

I use standard deeps as well for mating nucs. They just grow too fast in divided hive bodies. I use 8 frame deeps now for those mating nucs and let the last round of queen remain to overwinter.

Room to grow and room for an interior feeder:









I had the resources to make my mating nucs stronger this year. But I could make them with just three frames if it is right before or at the start of the flow. I'd still put them in an 8 frame deep. 

I use the mini frames mostly for my fence hanging divided mating nucs:


















I like the half sized deep frames for many reasons though...


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## tomkat (Apr 27, 2014)

Can you tell us what is on the putter sides of the hive with bullet hole recalls. I know they are not frames?????


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

tomkat said:


> Can you tell us what is on the putter sides of the hive with bullet hole recalls. I know they are not frames?????


Huh? Putter sides of the hive with bullet hole recalls? Not following you sir.


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## PeterP (Feb 5, 2014)

Translation;

"Other side of the hive with bullet hole decals."

Post #1 has a series of pictures and one of your hives has bullet hole decals. The yard behind the hive looks like livestock enclosures or runs??

Or the question relates to the frame feeders in the hive??

Too many people let the computer do the spelling and end up with wrong words in sentence. It is becoming an acquired skill to read some posts.

Regards Peter


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## tomkat (Apr 27, 2014)

I MEANT TO SAY OUTTER side of hive, on the pictures left side.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

You must be looking at the interior frame feeders. Mann Lake. Pro-feeder with cap and ladder. 1 1/2 gallon.


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## tomkat (Apr 27, 2014)

Thanks. And what are the narrow frames for? Long hives?


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

What narrow frames? I use standard deep frames and half sized deeps.


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## tomkat (Apr 27, 2014)

Lauri said:


> Overwintering full sized colonies on half sized deeps gives me some prime frames for making up mating nucs
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 The pictures here show what I am asking about.


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## 22DPac (Jun 24, 2012)

I believe that those are for mating nucs. Some partition a 10 frame deep to hold four queen cells for mating.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Mating nuc from a 4-22-14 hatch. Looking good and right on time. Weathers holding and the risk of any really bad weather is slim now.


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## Colobee (May 15, 2014)

I love your pictures! Do you have any early stage ones?


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## TWall (May 19, 2010)

Here are some 46-hr cells from a test grafting I did earlier this week: http://www.hunt101.com/showphoto.php?photo=827595&ppuser=35828

I have 5 cells drawn out of 8 grafts. An earlier test was a complete failure for several reasons. Despite that I still tried a couple of new things for this one. All cells were primed with 2:1 syrup. With the chinese tool it didn't seem to help or hurt. With the german stainless grafting tool the priming made it much easier to get the larvae off the hook. It was hard to tell if the larvae was floating on the surface or below the surface.

I did six with the chinese tool and two with the german tool. Success was 4/6 and 1/2. The cell on the left was with the german tool.

One of the cells looks like it does not have as much royal jelly as the others. It will be interesting to see how it looks at 10 days.

Tom


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