# Acidulating Sugar Syrup



## WVMJ (Apr 2, 2012)

We went to a Mike Bush talk today and he mentioned using ascorbic acid to bring the ph of sugar syrup down from 6 to closer to 3.5-4.0. I was thinking citric acid might even be better, its cheap, easy to buy in bulk at health food stores and winemaking (meadmaking) places. So how much citric acid would have to be added to drop the ph of sugar syrup. Would the acidification invert the sugar without heat? It also should keep better with a lower ph.

WVMJ


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## casinoken (May 6, 2012)

I use the juice of lemons to lower the ph in my "bee tea". Works great, and the bees love it.


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## woodwringer (Jan 31, 2012)

casinoken said:


> I use the juice of lemons to lower the ph in my "bee tea". Works great, and the bees love it.


How much lemon juice?


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## Jaseemtp (Nov 29, 2010)

yes! how much would one consider safe to add to 5 gallons.


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## Jay Burgess (Aug 3, 2007)

get a cheap PH meter try ebay


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## onthekeg (Sep 19, 2011)

Everyones water buffering capacity is different, so one amount doesn't work for all. You could even purchase pH strips from a hot tub or pool place to get in the right range.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

i recently bought some 1000 mg vitamin c (ascorbic acid), it was only about $6 for 100 caplets.

my current recipe for syrup, (which i only use if absolutely necessary), is:

10 cups sugar
6 cups water
1000 mg ascorbic acid (crushed)
make a little less than a gallon

i get the water as warm as possible out of the tap, and then get it a little warmer in the microwave. i then stir in the ascorbic acid, and then add the sugar.

with my water, the ph tests with strips to be just below 5, (purchased at the local pharmacy);

i stopped using honey bee healthy because the scent attracted robbers, not a problem with the above recipe. if you have other strong hives nearby, the lemon smell might attract robbers.


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## Ben Brewcat (Oct 27, 2004)

Onthekeg is right on; it'll depend strongly on your water. That said, I have never sweated the actual pH but rather just added a small "sploot" of vinegar to each 4 gallons of syrup, maybe a teaspoon to two tsp. The slightly reduced pH seems to make it more attractive as well as inhibit mold. For reference to the pHers, I have incredibly soft water (nearly distilled), so YMMV.


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## casinoken (May 6, 2012)

I don't work all my hives on the same days, so I typically don't make my bee tea in much larger than one gallon batches, but here is my recipe:

2 quarts water
5 lbs sugar
8 caffiene free chamomile tea bags
2 large lemons juiced
1-2 tablespoons of white vinegar (keeps the tea from fermenting if they take it slow)

I always add the vinegar, just in case, but I will typically put a two quart entrance feeder on after sunset and take the empty feeder off the next morning. They alwys seem to empty it overnight, and I don't have to worry about robbing at night.


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## cdevier (Jul 17, 2010)

I have very hard water; 
a 1;1 sugar syrup is about ph 7 (using PH paper strip)

10 pounds sugar
10 pints water (hot)
2 teaspoons Pro-Heath (Mann Lake)
2 teaspoons limon juice (Reallemon)

mixture is between ph 5.5 and 5.8

I also dilute this mix 50-50 and use in a spray bottle in stead of smoke. Works great except when taking off honey supers. It atttracts the bees; not chase them away.


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## WVMJ (Apr 2, 2012)

Using a hand held pH meter I measured the pH of 3 gallons of water with 25 pounds of sugar dissolved in it at a pH of 7.0. I added 250ml of distilled vinegar and it dropped to 4.1. I dont get along well with PH meters, I did the calibration with 7.0m buffer. WVMJ


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## mmmooretx (Jun 4, 2012)

I am also a home brewer and use a ph meter and phosphoric acid since I already have it.


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## MES613 (Nov 19, 2010)

Can I get a quick primer on the benefit of lowering the pH of sugar syrup?


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## Ben Brewcat (Oct 27, 2004)

Some believe that since honey is low in pH, syrup should be commensurately lowered. I personally do not subscribe to this, since it is not necessarily honey but nectar (and, more to the point, its carbohydrate content) that we are mimicking when feeding syrup and AFAIK nectar does not come pre-acidified. The reduction is done by the bees during curing through biological action. Certainly it's unlikely to cause harm (unless pH is adjusted with something harmful). I do the dash-o-vinegar in syrup because it seems to increase palatability (the bees like it better) and, mainly, because it retards mold development. But others may (almost certainly will) have additional reasons. While I'm a frantically nerdy guy, who adjusts pH all the time for brewing and in my hot tub, I have never considered busting out the Hanna for syrup .


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## MES613 (Nov 19, 2010)

Thanks Ben. I don't recall reading that before. Live and learn.


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## Jaseemtp (Nov 29, 2010)

Yeah I like your spin on it Ben.


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## Russ (Sep 9, 2001)

I use a Cordless Drill and a 5 Gal. Paint Mixer Tool to mix my "Bee Tea". Only mix what I need a the time so I don't have any left over. This combination works GREAT.


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## joecali (Sep 3, 2010)

If you want to use ascorbic acid it is sold as "fruit fresh"or something similar in the canning supply section of the grocery store. Used to prevent discoloration.


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## Connie1 (Jun 19, 2013)

What is the direct benefit of feeding this recipe to your bees?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

There are a few issues.

1) syrup with ascorbic acid in it keeps much longer
2) syrup with ascorbic acid in it is closer to the pH of honey
3) all brood diseases from chalkbrood to afb and even nosema (not a brood disease) reproduce poorly at the pH of honey and very well at the pH of sugar syrup.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfoursimplesteps.htm#naturalfood

Of course the "right" thing would be honey, not syrup...


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

What is the pH of naturally collected nectar?


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Exactly! And What is the pH of cured and stored sugar in the hive? Blindly acidifying the syrup might not be the right thing to do at all. It might, but without some measurement you just don't know.


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## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

A primary reason for acidifying syrup is to "invert" the sugar. Cane sugar is pure sucrose. Sucrose is a 12 carbon sugar made up of two loosely joined six carbon sub-molecules (fructose and glucose). The acid disassociates the sucrose into the component parts, mimicing the nectar. This is termed by kitchen chemists "invert" sugar, and was used for baking. Most nectars (not all) are slightly fructose rich. The pH of nectar varies widely too (and many nectars, not coevolved with honey bees, have large components of indigestible (by bees) seven and greater carbon sugars -- Eucalyptus and Avocado in my region are examples. 

Practically, the sucrose sugar syrup can be inverted with vinegar or any other edible acid, and very little hydrogen ion donors are needed on the order of tablespoon per gallon. Calcium disolved in water enormously affects its buffering of acid. 

Ascorbic acid is made up of glucose (6 C sugar ring) with 2 carbon "tail" and various OH groups tagged to balance the Carbon charge. Many animals and their gut flora can synthesize this from any 6 carbon sugar source. 

A 1985 paper fed honeybees various levels of Ascorbic (Vitamin C) and found that Vit C increases brood rearing (but that even 0 level controls had the same titer - bees (or their symbionts) can manufacture the Vitamin C). http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/arch.940020104/abstract 

The finding that Vit C enhances honeybee health and brood is important to the issue of overfeeding sugar syrup without the addition of ascorbic. The expected role of gut symbionts in the natural synthesis by bees reflects the issue of overdosing with fumagilin (a broad bacterial sterilant).

Herbert, E. W., Vanderslice, J. T. and Higgs, D. J. (1985), Vitamin C enhancement of brood rearing by caged honeybees fed a chemically defined diet. Arch. Insect Biochem. Physiol., 2: 29–37. doi: 10.1002/arch.940020104

"High Fructose Corn syrup" is unpopular with natural keepers but is similar in composition broadly with nectar. It is Corn Starch largely converted to fructose + glucose in proportions nearly exactly that of honey. The harmful effect of HFCS might be due to the residual indigestible (to bees) starch after the conversion process, or alternatively, the converted sugar is perfectly edible, but is lacking in Vit C and other natural contaminants (per the 1985 paper cited).

A good reason to use at least some ascorbic acid (or tartaric) in the place of some of the simpler acids is ascorbic is a ring structure, while acetic (vinegar) is a simple unbranched chain. The ring is stable and "recycles" Hydrogen OH groups from solution. This means it is continually recovering donor potential and a little bit can invert an enormous solution much like a catalyst in reaction.


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## cdevier (Jul 17, 2010)

WOW ! and I thought that I knew chemistery.
Charlie


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

JWChesnut - Thanks. That is extremely informative and useful. So it sounds like there is a fair margin of error if one uses ascorbic or tartaric acid for this purpose, but can you give some more specific guidelines for the non-chemist? Do you need to measure water hardness, just solution ph, or is either really required? What is the simplest way to measure those things? How long does it take for the desired reaction to happen? 

A *recipe* for ph adjusted, inverted sugar syrup (both 1-1 and 2-1 solutions) is what I for one really need. This sounds like a very simple thing that could produce significant results. Thanks.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I think you'll have to get some pH strips that go low enough for honey in order to measure your syrup. The acidity of your water obviously will affect things but there are many other factors such as lime which acts as a buffer (making it not so much more acidic or alkaline as more neutral). So how much will vary. I use seven grams of Ascorbic acid to five gallons of 5:3 syrup (sugar:water) and it comes out about 4.5. Your results will vary.


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## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

You can get pH test strips at most drug stores -- certain medical conditions need to check pH of urine. You can also get these at aquarium pet stores (checking pH of fish tanks). You can get them at Pool and hot tub supply stores -- as pH range is important to balancing the pool water. 

I've used the following product -- I have a Hach Ion meter (for my profession) and the strips have proved to be accurately calibrated. In fact, I use them for QA on the Hach -- it has a liquid gel sensor that goes wonky and calibration must be checked regularly.

http://www.amazon.com/PHion-Balance.../B000VRU4US/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1377702855


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## Connie1 (Jun 19, 2013)

Does acidifying the sugar syrup help eliminate nosema?


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## Connie1 (Jun 19, 2013)

Sounds like your syrup is quite concentrated being 5:3?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Does acidifying the sugar syrup help eliminate nosema? 

Nosema definitely reproduces better at the neutral pH of sugar syrup and not as well at a pH of 4.5. The microbes in the gut of the bee definitely help protect it from Nosema.

http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0033188

>Sounds like your syrup is quite concentrated being 5:3? 

Yes. That's the concentration I use all year around. It keeps better than 1:1 and dissolves easier than 2:1.


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