# Raising queens



## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

The base of the queen cell is either hard plastic or thicker wax that can be carefully pushed into the face of a frame where it won't be damaged by the frames being pushed together. Two styles of cell protectors can be bought inexpensively that allow you to either hang the cell between two bee covered frames or stick it into the frame face with a prong off the protector. It worries me handling cells too! My Mann lake order just got stacked on my front steps. grrrr and there are some in the box. I hope.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Just take the cell cup and if the nights are above 60 degrees just hang it between two frames. If the nites are cold, take the plastic lip of the cell cup and place (push) it in a frame of brood until the lip of the cell cup is holding the cell against the other brood (or against the drawn comb.) I like to do it about an inch or two below the top of the frame if there is brood there, lower if necessary. Don't be squeamish about squashing a couple of cells of brood when placing the cell.

The reason for this is on cold nites, the bees may cluster and not cover (warm) the cell, so you place it in brood where they will surely cover it...

I don't use cell protectors...........


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## nater37 (Aug 15, 2013)

thanks guys figured it was pretty easy; just did not want to do all the work then not place the cells right


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

here's a pic how it's done on a comb with brood. As per what the others said the cell must be where the bees can keep it at the right temperature. Which is on other brood. For this cell I couldn't put it right on capped brood as they don't stick, so the top of the cell is pushed into the wax just above the brood with the main body of the cell overlapping existing brood.


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## nater37 (Aug 15, 2013)

I cant even see where the plastic cup was pushed in. Did they just build wax all around it?



Oldtimer said:


> here's a pic how it's done on a comb with brood. As per what the others said the cell must be where the bees can keep it at the right temperature. Which is on other brood. For this cell I couldn't put it right on capped brood as they don't stick, so the top of the cell is pushed into the wax just above the brood with the main body of the cell overlapping existing brood.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Hi Nater37
I don't use plastic cups the cells are raised on wax, like this.


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## nater37 (Aug 15, 2013)

That is great Oldtimer. So you make your own cell with wax I guess then cut it off and mount to brood comb after the graft and it has been successfully capped.



Oldtimer said:


> Hi Nater37
> I don't use plastic cups the cells are raised on wax, like this.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Not quite, I cut strips from a comb with young larvae and stick the strips to the bar with hot wax, then put them in a queenless hive so the bees will make them into queen cells.


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

Oldtimer said:


> stick the strips to the bar with hot wax


Oldtimer how do you do to have hot wax in the apiary? Or you do the stick elsewhere?


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

I do it at home, the cell raising hives are at home.

Here is a link to what I do http://www.beesource.com/resources/...queen-cells-without-grafting-cut-cell-method/


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## nater37 (Aug 15, 2013)

That is the best step by step I have seen!!
Awesome oldtimer



Oldtimer said:


> I do it at home, the cell raising hives are at home.
> 
> Here is a link to what I do http://www.beesource.com/resources/...queen-cells-without-grafting-cut-cell-method/


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

I can not have hives near home. My apiaries are about 30 min. my home. You think that I can use the same technique, knowing that from the time of start-up and placement of the strips in the orphan hive I can take between 1h30m to 2h00? Thank you.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Thanks Nater37 

Eduardo, the cells can be transported for that amount of time provided the larvae are floating in plenty of royal jelly but the main thing is to stop them drying out, or overheating, the cell frame can be wrapped in a damp towel.

An alternative you could try is the jenter system, works quite well, no electricity needed, no grafting, and you can do the whole thing at your outyard, no need to transport any larvae.


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

"The other thing with a larger nuc is I can let the queen lay for a while & properly test brood pattern before selling it." in http://www.beesource.com/resources/...queen-cells-without-grafting-cut-cell-method/

I totally agree with this care in producing properly tested queens.


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

Oldtimer said:


> An alternative you could try is the jenter system


Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMlhhVweMn8
Thank you Oldtimer! :thumbsup:


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

nater37 said:


> I cant even see where the plastic cup was pushed in. Did they just build wax all around it?


Only the LIP of the cup is pushed in till the entire cell is flush........or almost so.......


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

In the context of my operation the queens raising for my own use will assume increasing importance. I'm seeking techniques which have three key features:
- simplicity;
- time saving;
- quality of queens.

The OST (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7yzWdyyXcU) technique seems to me that meets the first two conditions. Regarding the third I would appreciate your opinion. Thank you for your help.


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

Great guidance..

A couple of questions.

Is the box that has the bent queen excluder section a medium or deep depth?

If you are just starting with mating nucs can you put 2 frames of foundation...are these drawn or not?....and 1 of bees and capped from a production hive to use as your mating nuc?

if just starting out would it make sense to kill more cells between potential Queen cells so as to make it easier to cut between them when they mature?

Also if one is fortunate enough to get more Mated Queens than anticipated can you leave them in the mating nucs by circulating out brood ( which is better to remove capped or open brood) if they get too strong?


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Watched the video you posted Eduardo, yes that is probably the simplest way to get some queen cells. As to quality, notching the comb as he did can produce good quality cells. The reason is that if the bees have to use a comb like that to make queen cells, to get the cell in the downwards position, they have to float the larva out to the end of the cell on royal jelly, and then point the cell in the normal downwards position. But to feed, the larva has to stretch around the corner to get the jelly, and as a result these queens are often not so well nourished, and smaller. That is why you will often hear it said that emergency raised queens are not as good.

But notching the comb as he did, means the bees will choose a larva immediately above the notch, and build the queen cell straight down, because the cell below has been cut away. This can produce a well fed and high quality queen.



WBVC said:


> Is the box that has the bent queen excluder section a medium or deep depth?


the one in the pic is full deep depth but it could be done with medium depth also.



WBVC said:


> If you are just starting with mating nucs can you put 2 frames of foundation...are these drawn or not?....and 1 of bees and capped from a production hive to use as your mating nuc?


yes that is a great way to start a mating nuc, but it depends on climate of course. For bees to keep just one comb of brood warm the outside temperatures have to be fairly warm, and there has to be a decent number of bees. The other 2 combs can be undrawn foundation provided there is some nectar coming in to encourage the bees to draw it. the problem with these 3 framers is they get very strong very fast and can swarm. So I tend to remove bees and brood from them at the time of caging the queen and reduce them to just one frame of brood & a couple of foundation or empty comb. If there is no nectar flow though, they get a comb of honey.



WBVC said:


> if just starting out would it make sense to kill more cells between potential Queen cells so as to make it easier to cut between them when they mature?


Yes, I kill two, leave one. Sometimes the killing is not totally successful, hence the cells to close together. When that happens I just put 2 cells in the nuc.



WBVC said:


> Also if one is fortunate enough to get more Mated Queens than anticipated can you leave them in the mating nucs by circulating out brood ( which is better to remove capped or open brood) if they get too strong?


Yes. Have to remove adult bees also or they can get too strong.


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

Do you know if a virgin queen can pass through a queen excluder? Or if the virgin queens can eliminate the queen mother through the excluder (daughter above the excluder and the mother under the excluder)?


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

No they cannot get through an excluder, unless there is a problem with the excluder. And no, the queens, virgin or not, cannot kill each other through an excluder. However if you have a mated and virgin queen in the same hive separated by an excluder, sometimes the bees will decide to kill the virgin, depending on the season and circumstances of the hive, and where the virgin came from.


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## bhfury (Nov 25, 2008)

I've raised swarm queen cell with some pretty good success. This year I'm going to use the Jenner box and try to raise more queens. Carnies do really well in this area so VSH Carnies and NWC will be what I use for breeder queens.


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## jcolon (Sep 12, 2014)

So if i only need 3 queens but end up with 10. what to do with the rest? How do i keep them alive and well?


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Make some money. Get into the nuc sales business?


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## jcolon (Sep 12, 2014)

But you need bees for that. What if have more queens than bees for nuc? How do i even hold them for a week or two? Hand feed them with a tiny dropper? lol


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Can't answer Jcolon, it's unlikely to happen though. You need bees to get them mated.

Or do you mean more queen cells than you can use? If so, just got to write some of them off.


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

jcolon said:


> But you need bees for that. What if have more queens than bees for nuc? How do i even hold them for a week or two? Hand feed them with a tiny dropper? lol


I had more queen cells than I did bees to make up nucs so I contacted the local bee club that I am part of and gave away the capped cells. It was mid July so I didn't have to worry about keeping them super warm. Not sure how well it worked out for those that got them. This year I am going to try a queen castle of sorts so I can hopefully get more mated queens (not just capped cells) to help with our local nuc program. Seems like a shame to waste them. I usually put 2 capped cells in each queenless hive/nuc and have had a pretty good success rate last year.


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## honey jhar (Jun 5, 2014)

jcolon "What if have more queens than bees for nuc? How do i even hold them for a week or two?"

See article linked in post 11. Day 27. It shows a queen bank.


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