# plywood nuc boxes



## jmgi

I'm getting ready to build a large number of 4 frame deep nuc boxes, and obviously want to do it as cheaply as possible but also want them to hold up to the weather. I'm thinking of going with exterior plywood instead of 1x pine wood, I figure it will be less expensive. I do plan on painting the plywood with a couple coats of good quality paint. Those that have used plywood nucs for many years, how do you like them? What thickness did you use, and how did you secure the joints? Thanks. John


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## DonShackelford

I have built hive bodies made from 3/4" marine grade plywood. They lasted about 4 years. 

Just a suggestion, I scan Craigslist for pallets. Some pallets have decent 1x6 that make very good hives. Last fall I bought 96 8'x10' pallets with 11 8' 1x6's on each for $750. I have built almost 100 5 frame deep nuc boxes so far and should get 400 more. It is more work but the price is right.


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## jmgi

Don, never thought of using pallet wood, looks like that was a really great deal for you. Even if the wood is a little scuffed up, so what, its still better than plywood and will last. John


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## DonShackelford

There is a lot of waste John, but the end result is solid wood boxes for under $2.

It is a given that most pallet wood is junk not suitable for hives. There are specialty pallets not designed for reuse that have better wood. Tile shops are another good source. They get heavy wood single use crates. Those are generally free as well. 
I would search other threads here before going with plywood. An exception is sign grade plywood. I made some parts out of used signage plywood last year and they are doing well so far. 

I'll build a hive out of anything.


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## Rader Sidetrack

DonShackelford said:


> It is a given that most pallet wood is junk not suitable for hives. There are specialty pallets not designed for reuse that have better wood.


I agree. Standard re-usable pallets typically get repaired when damaged, and have way too many "twist" nails to be usable lumber. But I find that one-time use pallets/frames used for shipping machinery work well for me. Locally I reuse log-splitter crates from Tractor Supply, and large one-time pallets from a local mower shop.


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## jmgi

Don, so you are joining two 1x6's together to get the depth needed for deep nucs? I really hesitate to go with plywood unless others have used them and say they hold up well for many years, but my gut tells me it ain't so. I build all my equipment except frames to save money, and would like to save even more on wood, so I'm starting to look for cheaper ways to do it, as long as it holds up well, heck, the bees don't really care. I would rather spend the money on things that do matter. John


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## Beregondo

I strongly suggest adavantech instead of plywood if you are going to buy sheet stock.
I made some last year after talking to Keth Comollo, who had left a test piece in the weather ofr a year or two unpainted and reported it still sound.

Unlike OSB (which it looks like) it is impregnated with a waxy substance making it water resistant (so far, apparently more so than CDX ply).

It's very easy to work with..cuts like butter and slides easily across the saw table.

The painted boxes and untinned tops look as good now as they did when made...and the lids were constantly wet under the top bricks all winter.

Bees in these boxes have done very well in them after a very difficult year of weather stress...and the bees in them are only 4 frame nucs (in an upstate NY winter).


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## Wisnewbee

I made a bunch of Nuc boxes last year using pressure treated plywood. I used 3/4" for the top, bottom, and ends. 1/2" was used for the sides. Only problem encountered was some slight warping of the 1/2" sides. I used 1/4" crown staples to assemble the pieces. I did paint the exterior of all the boxes. These are all stored outside on a special pallet. Bottoms have a cleat that aligns with an opening on the pallet. 8 Nuc boxes to a pallet. These were 5 frame Nucs.

Wisnewbee
Bill


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## DonShackelford

jmgi said:


> Don, so you are joining two 1x6's together to get the depth needed for deep nucs?


Yes. I run all edges through the tablesaw, cut for length on the miter saw, then clamp two together and join them with a 1" long x 1/2" tall corrugated fastener with this air gun. No glue required.

http://www.nailgundepot.com/prodView.asp?idproduct=1963


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## rwurster

I used 5/8" siding, un-painted, and they're holding together great despite being outside for 2 years now.


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## David LaFerney

I second the advantec. I glue (titebond 3) and screw plain old butt joints and have some boxes (nucs and supers) that have been out for 3 years that are like new structurally. Ugly, but solid. Heavy compared to 1x12s but not really much of a factor when they are full of bees or honey. About $3.50 per super for new material, and you don't have to deconstruct pallets before you start.


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## minz

Bushkill.com gives a nice material and cut list. I use T1-11 exterior plywood, good coat of primer and camo colors. 
I could not find the Advantec, even went to the dealers. I have a couple of projects to finish in the shop and then I will go for doing another pile of traps.
I have made queen castles out of exterior plywood and they have survived outside all year without a scratch in full weather. The nucs I cannot comment on because I bring them in for winter. It was scrap so all I have in them is time and paint.


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## Steven Tervort

Here are some pallet swarm traps I made...
Recycled Pallet Swarm Traps
Once these are painted they will last quite a while. 

I used to make my nucs *entirely* out of plywood. I didn't like cutting the box joints for them. 
So, I came up with a "hybrid nuc" that allowed me to use butt joints. Basically I use a solid 
piece of pine for the ends (frame rest side) and plywood for the sides (I have also used pallet 
wood for the sides). When I am up to it I will make the entire box with plywood, but it takes 
a little extra effort to cut the box joints. So far they are all holding up well. Even after being
used as swarm traps all year. They are painted so they last quite a while (some going on year 4).
Even if they didn't last that long they are very cheap to replace. Since I only have a few 
hives this makes things very economical for me. I may eventually start using solid pine again, but 
for right now I am too poor so I make boxes with whatever I can.


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## Beregondo

David, did you paint your advantech boxes or leave them raw?

I painted mine, but intend to expand quite a lot this year and next, so if it stands up well sans paint I could put the paint money to good use buying other (or more) material.


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## DonShackelford

David LaFerney said:


> I ... About $3.50 per super for new material, and you don't have to deconstruct pallets before you start.


Not a fair comparison considering in 5 years my 500 nucs will be in good condition, whereas you will be scrambling for something to house your frames.

If I took the trouble to make that many nucs and then then discovered all my boxes fell apart 5 years from now I would be really mad at the person who convinced me they were a viable long term solution.


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## jmgi

Don, didn't know they made a corrugated fastener gun, I think that at the price of the gun I will just use titebond glue if I have to join edges together. I checked my lumber yard (not HD or Lowe's) today and they wanted just under $16 for a 1x12x16, at that price it would cost me $5.00/nuc box, not horribly bad but sure would like to get the price down more. Those pallets are looking better and better. John


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## theriverhawk

I have used 3/4 inch plywood for nucs for some years. A good coat of Kilz, then a couple of coats of a good exterior paint plus glue and staples make it last. Slap a coat of paint on every other year, making sure to cover the end pieces. I'm on year 4 with a few of them. Crazy cheap to build.


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## rweakley

I use 1/2" plywood for my NUCS. I use the Dcoates 5 frame plans on this website. I do a couple things different from the plans. I cut a circular hole in the front instead of the rectangle (probably no effect on longevity), and I make a telescoping cover instead of a migratory (this probably will increase longevity). I also paint the edges with titebond II to help keep the water from getting in and swelling the plywood. Then it gets a couple of coats of paint. None of my nuc boxes built in this way have had to be replaced yet. I've been making them for probably 4 years or so. However long they have been on this website. It's hard to beat 4 nucs for 20$ or so depending on how much your plywood is, glue, paint, nails/staples.


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## mathesonequip

look at rough cut. i use pine or hemlock. you have to air dry it unless you can find some air dryed. hint : if the logs were cut in well below frezeing temperatures it dries quicker. you can plane it after it dries. i have seen some from a band saw mill where boards are good enough rough. with rough cut you need to plan ahead several months or a year. i use rabbit joints and tite bond 3 glue, exterior screws and paint from lowes oops shelf. last fall i built some 10 frame med. boxes for lees than $4 each includeing metal frame rests...i built a table saw jig for factory taper scoop style handles. i like to use a marking template to mark, then drill pilot holes in a drill press for the screws . in hemlock pilot holes are a real good idea. local for me the wood is 45 cents/b.f. in northern new england it is even less. always be carefull with all inside the box measurements. ...... i goofed up, tired late at night once and made a nuc out of a piece of number one {perfect} cherry that i was saveing, oh well.


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## psfred

So far I've made all of mine from solid pine. However, if I do end up with extras, I'll make some plywood ones or buy corrogated ones if I sell the bees, I don't intend to part with permanent boxes.

Depending on how you intend to use them, solid wood is probably better. Plywood will be OK if properly protected from the weather (meaning well sealed and well painted), but inevitably will not last as long.

Peter


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## Wisnewbee

Not meaning to hijack a thread but Advantech has been mentioned here a couple times and on other threads. I live in central Wisconsin and have never seen this stuff. What is it, and where can you get it? Thanks.

Wisnewbee


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## mathesonequip

i asked about it in home depot depot yesterday "i think i might of heard of something similar to this" was the closest i could get to an answer... evidently their sale on free dumb looks is still in progress.


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## jmgi

I do think that plywood would be ok if you made sure the edges were sealed good either by coating them with good exterior glue or caulking, then painting them with quality paint. I plan to use my nucs year round, so they would really need to hold up to moisture especially in winter. I'm leaning towards solid pine, but I may put together a few plywood ones too just to see how they hold up if I seal and paint them up good. John


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## Beregondo

Advantech is an engineered wood product similar to OSB, which it looks like.

It is similar in cost to exterior plywood, but easier (in my opinion) to work with, and is not only put together with waterproof glue, but the wood chips it is made of are impregnated with a waxy substance to protect them from moisture.

If left unprotected outdoors, it lasts longer than plywood.
After a year laying on the ground bare, rained and snowed on, going through norther freeze/thaw cycles, it looks the same as when it was put there, except for a little sun bleaching.
Exterior plywood treated like that here would be delaminating.

Painted, untinned top covers haven't warped after a year.

This is the product at Lowes: link

It doesn't come up on a search of Home Depot; this appears to be similar, but I have no experience with the Home Depot product: link

I prefer it to plywood.
There are no voids or knots.
It's heavy, like plywood but not unreasonably so.

Hope this is helpful to you.


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## DonShackelford

jmgi said:


> I do think that plywood would be ok if you made sure the edges were sealed good either by coating them with good exterior glue or caulking, then painting them with quality paint.


John, just curious if you have tried this or if it is speculation?

I make some tops and bottoms out of plywood, but with eyes open that it is a short term ( 5 yrs or less) solution. Don't mean to be a grinch, but do think it is not right to lead folks to thinking a plywood box will remain serviceable. If it were so, then the bee supply houses would be selling them and the larger beeks here would be using them to save many thousands in boxes.

Just an FYI, Advantech states their product is not suitable for outdoor use.


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## rweakley

DonShackelford said:


> John, just curious if you have tried this or if it is speculation?
> 
> I make some tops and bottoms out of plywood, but with eyes open that it is a short term ( 5 yrs or less) solution. Don't mean to be a grinch, but do think it is not right to lead folks to thinking a plywood box will remain serviceable. If it were so, then the bee supply houses would be selling them and the larger beeks here would be using them to save many thousands in boxes.
> 
> Just an FYI, Advantech states their product is not suitable for outdoor use.


Remember the opening post was about using plywood for NUC boxes not necessarily full boxes. I don't know about anyone else, but the nucs boxes I build don't spend ALL year out in the weather. Sometimes they are stacked in the garage when not being used. I still stick to the belief that if a person doesn't have a source for very cheap lumber that building nucs (DCOATES nucs) out of plywood is the most economical way to go, and they will last plenty long enough if they are sealed at edges (I paint with titebond II) and then painted with exterior paint. These type boxes to me are also nice for selling nucs in, granted there is work involved in making them, but they are SO much better(selling point, and I also build the value into the price of my nuc) than the cardboard or plastiboard nucs and possibly cheaper.


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## jmgi

Don, no this is entirely speculation, I have never built any bee equipment out of plywood, I just threw this question out there to see the pro's and con's of it. I certainly don't want high maintenance equipment, even with nucs. I do plan to use them all year round so I need to take that into consideration. I would feel a whole lot better using pine, just need to find a cheaper source for the wood to get my unit price down at least another third from the lumber yard price, I will keep a lookout for the pallet wood. John


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## Creekside

I have about 20 5 frame DCOATES nucs that I built out of 1/2" plywood. They are in there 3rd 
year of use. I glue(tite bond) and staple all joints. I then give them a couple of coats of exterior grade paint. I would not say 3 years of use is many years, however I am surprised of how good they are holding up. Some of them still look like the day I made them. You definetly need to make sure you seal up the edges good though. I would like to build them out of solid pine but the price is just ridiculous. Especially when you can make 4 nucs out of plywood for around $15!


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## DonShackelford

jmgi said:


> I would feel a whole lot better using pine, just need to find a cheaper source for the wood to get my unit price down John


One consolation about using pine John, your efforts build up over time. I'm looking at all the parts I've made this year. Added to that all the past parts I've made that are in the field. I too keep nucs in service 12 months a year, and building momentum.


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## Beregondo

With both well painted plywood and Advantech, the biggest disadvantage isn't life span, but weight.

A big commercial outfit wouldn't be able to carry as many hives on a truck to pollination if they were made of these materials.

Boxes made of them aren't pretty and their manufacture is stone simple, which is a big market-shrinker for them, and part of why they aren't sold by the big bee supply outfits.

Properly constructed and finished, they will last quite a long time, whether some believe it or not.
I'd ask, 

"Don, just curious if you have tried this or if it is speculation?"

One material serves on purpose, one another.
Good, painted exterior ply might not last as long as similarly finished pine.. but then again, it might.

Longevity isn't it's attraction, but rather value.
You can make more, cheaper.

And if one did that math on "dollar-years" one gets out of them when properly made, I think they're certainly worth the money.

Plywood is an excellent material for seasonally used nucs, and not a bad material for boxes used year round.

Like pine, used improperly it won't last two years, though.


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## Saltybee

I used 3/4 advantec on a trailor. Warranty for 40 years, did not expect did not get. I used it laying flat unpainted, in the weather, buried in snow and melting snow ,etc. Corners are beginning to get pucky but it still hauls lawn mower around, crushed rock, etc. water sitting between metal frames and sheet is where it started to go. Been over ten years. Myself, rough scrap or 1/2 plywood for nuc.
There is a zip code finder if you poke around googling advantech, Huber Industries.


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## barberberryfarm

I'm looking to build eight D.Coates NUCs and was thinking of using 1/2 inch "whole piece birch" plywood from Home Depot. Does anyone have any thoughts if a hardwood-based plywood ($11/nuc) would be more durable than the cheaper "pine-based" sanded plywood ($7/nuc). I don't mind paying $4 more per NUC if they are going to last longer. Here's examples of the two I'm considering:

Hardwood-based: http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/100020...gId=-1&storeId=10051&N=5yc1vZbu0m&R=100020218
Sanded pine-based: http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/100012...gId=-1&storeId=10051&N=5yc1vZbu0d&R=100012720

As folks have mentioned above, I plan to paint the edges with Titebond II and put two quality coats of paint on them as well. The pours in the hardwood plywood are tighter which leads me to believe it would be the better choice of the two. But if it's not that big of an issue, I'll go with the cheaper pine-based plywood.


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## Rader Sidetrack

>  was thinking of using 1/2 inch "whole piece birch" plywood from Home Depot.

If the pine plywood is rated as Exterior, it should have a grade stamp on it saying so. Similar to the one on the far right:










Note that "Exposure 1" is not as good as "Exterior". More here:
http://www.performancepanels.com/single.cfm?content=app_pp_faqs#difference2

I would not expect a grade stamp on the birch plywood, but without a grade stamp its exterior performance is unknown. Even HD does not say anything about exterior in its description of the product. The only clue is the description of the glue, which leads to the manufacturer:
http://columbiaforestproducts.com/PureBond.aspx
They say the glue is water resistant, but that does not necessarily mean the finished plywood is exterior grade.


I scrounge plywood, and use anything I get for free. But if I was buying plywood, I'd buy _Exterior _rated plywood.


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## Beregondo

The sanded pine BC ply is put together with waterproof glue; the birch isn't.
I used some scrap birch ply for a tele cover, intending to tin it, but it was put to use without the metal and delaminated pretty quickly when exposed to weather, even though painted.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr

DonShackelford said:


> Just an FYI, Advantech states their product is not suitable for outdoor use.


I know they say it isn't designed for outdoor use, but, I have about 150 migratory covers with 72mm hole for jar top feeding. About half painted white, the others not painted. Most are five years or more old, no problems with any of them. Also have about a dozen 5 frame nucs made from Advantec.

Here is a photo of one of the 5 frame nucs, made with Advantec. As Beregondo said, they aren't pretty, but, they work. And the wood was free. If you know someone in the housing construction business, you may be able to get lots of small pieces of Advantec they use as sub flooring.

















And here is a photo of the migratory tops with feeder holes. You might note they are not painted.









cchoganjr


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## barberberryfarm

Thanks Graham, Beregondo and Cleo. My son is a builder, so I think I'll hold off until he starts a new house and maybe I'll find some good Advantec or exterior plywood pieces to build my NUCs. I have to admit, you can't beat free!


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr

Free is my favorite price. It is always "on sale"

cchoganjr


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## RadioactiveMan

Are you guys using tongue-and-grooved Advantech flooring or is there a different product? All I found locally has tongue-and-grooves, but that's easily ripped off with the table saw.


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## ralittlefield

RadioactiveMan said:


> Are you guys using tongue-and-grooved Advantech flooring or is there a different product?


It is manufactured in different thickness as well as both tongue and grooved and square edge.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr

ralittlefield said:


> It is both tongue and grooved and square edge.


I find the same in our area. I see both, square edge, and tongue and groove. The short free pieces I get have been ripped. You can rip the tongue/groove off if you want to. For feeder tops, if it is tongue and groove, I just leave it as it. For nuc bottom boards, nuc tops, nucs, etc., i rip them.

cchoganjr


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## David LaFerney

I use mostly constuction scraps - so tongue and groove.


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## Intheswamp

Just thought I'd mention that the closest Advantech dealer that showed up on the Advantech dealer locator was probably 70 miles from me. I decided to check my "local" (26 miles away ) Lowes and they have it...it's kind of interesting that Advantech doesn't show them as a dealer. :scratch:

Ed


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## rwurster

I wish we had advantech locally, I would have already made quite a few test boxes with it. The used wood I have is all tongue and groove, easily ripped from the boards. Pretty sure I would do the same with a sheet of advantech.


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## challenger

I used the Dcoates plywood plans modified a little. I used 1/2" thickness.
Once assembled I soaked all exterior surfaces and edges in copper napthanate. These were done 3 years ago and look like they were done yesterday. I am a big believer in the copper napthanate protection. I have a sheet metal pan and put about 3/4" deep and let the woo dsoak for 1-2 minutes. It adds a little to the price but goes a long way. I generally like to dumpster dive for plywood but it is a hassle compared to buying nice new sheets. The last batch I made I used store bought and screwed the sheets together and gang cut them with a circular saw and a straight edge.


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## JonnyBeeGood

How do the 1/2" D. Coates boxes or the Advantech (1/2"??) boxes fare in the cold of winter? I am planning to make 30 to 40 of them for overwintering and am curious how the bees will do in them? Do you use any insulation? I'm in the middle of Connecticut & am curious what % of success I'm might expect??


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## camero7

> I strongly suggest adavantech instead of plywood if you are going to buy sheet stock.


I agree. I'm using it exclusively for tops and bottoms. Most not painted and holding up well with very little warping. Made some of CDX plywood that warped and separated. I like the advantech.


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## rweakley

JonnyBeeGood said:


> How do the 1/2" D. Coates boxes or the Advantech (1/2"??) boxes fare in the cold of winter? I am planning to make 30 to 40 of them for overwintering and am curious how the bees will do in them? Do you use any insulation? I'm in the middle of Connecticut & am curious what % of success I'm might expect??


I have used the dcoates boxes to over winter here in Missouri. We don't get as cold here as you do there, but the thing to remember is it's not normally the cold that kills the bees it's moisture or getting caught covering brood and not able to cluster properly. I got 2 nucs thru our winter that were so weak they had no business making it, but they did, and one of those is one of my most productive queens right now. Going into this next winter my plan is to overwinter multiple nucs and to have 5 frame supers for them as well. I make the supers the same way as the regular dcoates except that I leave off the bottom of course, don't drill an entrance in it, and I add cleats to both sides on the bottom (this covers up the crack that there would be on the bottom one without a lid). Good luck


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## JonnyBeeGood

Thanks! I appreciate the info. When do you start your Nucs that you are planning to overwinter?


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## max2

Interesting discussion. I'm making 5 frame nuc boxes out of 15 mm ply - get 4 out of a 1200 x 2400 sheet. Good value


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## rweakley

JonnyBeeGood said:


> Thanks! I appreciate the info. When do you start your Nucs that you are planning to overwinter?


Both nucs that went thru winter last year were mid year splits that never took off (DROUGHT) that I put back into nucs in the fall. I don't think they would have survived if they had been in a 10 frame box. As for timing the nucs for when to start them to over winter I don't think that even if I had a good idea on that for my area that you would want to follow the same timing up there. I think for you, that you'd be better off following what Michael Palmer does because he is in Maine (I think, somewhere up northeast), and that would more match your climate. My plan this year is to make multiple batches of grafted queens until the drought(if only it wouldn't)kicks in, and then manage the nucs in a double nuc (10 frames) arrangement, stealing brood or stores or giving stores to keep them a good size. Then over winter them, come spring assuming that they survived (and why wouldn't they my bees are awesome LOL), basically split it in 2, 1/2 will have the queen and 1/2 won't, the 1/2 without a queen will get a queen cell from grafts I would have started about 10 days before the split. So I get to sell an over wintered nuc, and then I have a 2nd nuc ready for sale hopefully 4 weeks later.


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## Saltybee

Those Northeast states are all the same anyway. Palmer= Vermont


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