# Top Entrances



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I think you're on the right track. It may be time to just close it now. It will be chaos for a day. Do it on a day when the night is supposed to be nice and clear so they have time to sort it out without getting caught in the rain.


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## Kyle Meadows (Jul 14, 2006)

What about closing it at night?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>What about closing it at night?

That would work fine. But they will still try to get in the bottom, crawl all over the hive, and eventually find the top. It would be better if that happened on a nice day.


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## buckbee (Dec 2, 2004)

Kyle Meadows said:


> Hello all,
> I want to convert a hive from bottom entrance to top entrance.


I'm just curious as to why you want to do that. I'm not saying it is wrong - anything MB does is fine by me  - but it has always seemed counter-intuitive to me. 

I can see the point about ventilation, but surely all the heat just goes out through the roof in winter, drawing cold air in from below?

And all the research I have seen suggests bees prefer a low entrance. But hey - as MB says, "anything works..."


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## betrbekepn (Aug 7, 2006)

buckbee said:


> I can see the point about ventilation, but surely all the heat just goes out through the roof in winter, drawing cold air in from below?
> 
> And all the research I have seen suggests bees prefer a low entrance. But hey - as MB says, "anything works..."


The cold doesn't hurt bees, condensation raining down onto the cluster will. Modern man made beehives don't come close to replicating a natural bee tree cavity. MB has seen bee trees with top, middle, bottom, multiple entrances high and low, and far off from the actual hive entrances. I'm curious if anybody has given a top entrance hive a bottom entrance, leaving both entrances open, do the bees now prefer using the bottom entrance? I think the bees would continue using the top entrance because that was their "main entrance" to start with (as long as you don't move the top entrance when supering), this is probably why adding a top entrance to a bottom entranced hive the bees continue to prefer the bottom entrance.


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## Kyle Meadows (Jul 14, 2006)

betrbekepn said:


> (as long as you don't move the top entrance when supering)


I meant to ask about that, too. Do the supers go above or below the top entrance? In other words, should the top entrance always stay on top? By the way the bees are already adjusted to the top entrance and there wasn't much chaos at all. I guess having both entrances open for over two weeks helped with the transition.


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## Kyle Meadows (Jul 14, 2006)

buckbee said:


> I'm just curious as to why you want to do that. "


Regarding the reasons for top entrances, the heat loss issue was one of my first questions to MB, and he responded as betrbekepn has stated- less condensation makes the bees warmer. Other potential problems solved with top entrances are: Tall grass, mice, skunks, etc. and snow.


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## buckbee (Dec 2, 2004)

Kyle Meadows said:


> Regarding the reasons for top entrances, the heat loss issue was one of my first questions to MB, and he responded as betrbekepn has stated- less condensation makes the bees warmer. Other potential problems solved with top entrances are: Tall grass, mice, skunks, etc. and snow.


Interesting. I actually agree about the condensation issue - we have had this discussion already elsewhere - and I have nothing against top entrances. I have solved all the issues you mention using central, side entrances - see pic here http://www.biobees.com/images/build_top_bar_hive/index.php?start=31 

I'm not sayin this is necessarily a better solution, but I wonder if heat loss with a top entrance would become an issue in colder climates - say -5 and below? Our winters are pretty mild here - rarely below 0 for more than a day or two, but I still worry about those bees shivering in a draught...


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I can see the point about ventilation, but surely all the heat just goes out through the roof in winter, drawing cold air in from below?

Interestingly beekeepers in colder climates are who I find the most adamant about having a top entrance to prevent condensation.

>And all the research I have seen suggests bees prefer a low entrance.

I haven't seen any preference. Bees tend to use whatever entrance there is.

>The cold doesn't hurt bees, condensation raining down onto the cluster will.

Exactly.

>I'm curious if anybody has given a top entrance hive a bottom entrance, leaving both entrances open, do the bees now prefer using the bottom entrance?

Some hives prefer the top and some prefer the bottom. I see no pattern.

> I think the bees would continue using the top entrance because that was their "main entrance" to start with (as long as you don't move the top entrance when supering), this is probably why adding a top entrance to a bottom entranced hive the bees continue to prefer the bottom entrance.

I wouldn't attempt to predict. But there is a tendency to prefer the one they are used to. I don't like both because it nullifies the reason I went to top entrances, which was to foil the skunks, opossums and mice.

>I meant to ask about that, too. Do the supers go above or below the top entrance?

My entrance is in the lid, so its always on the top.

> In other words, should the top entrance always stay on top?

Should? I don't think the bees care. But if the entrance is in the lid it will stay on top.

>I'm not sayin this is necessarily a better solution, but I wonder if heat loss with a top entrance would become an issue in colder climates - say -5 and below?

Our winters are not mild here. Some -17 F here at my house this last winter and that's not a bad winter, that's just a typical one. The only hard thing on the bees was how erratic the temperatures were going from 50 F to -17 in one day and then staying at below 0 for weeks.

> Our winters are pretty mild here - rarely below 0 for more than a day or two, but I still worry about those bees shivering in a draught...

Think about them shivering wet...


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## John F (Dec 9, 2005)

Kyle Meadows said:


> I meant to ask about that, too. Do the supers go above or below the top entrance? In other words, should the top entrance always stay on top?


When I add a box the bees returning will land where the entrance used to be, one box lower than the new entrance. Then they climb straight up and in. It looks kind of cool because for a bit they all land low and a stream of bees hikes up.

In about 20 minutes they've adjusted.


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## buckbee (Dec 2, 2004)

Thanks Michael,
I completely agree with you about condensation being the enemy - I think we have discussed this before - and I bow to your experience in the matter of top entrances and ventilation. I will be doing some experiments this winter.

I am running one of my TBHs with no bottom at all right now, just to see how they handle it. The bottom is also the entrance, of course. This colony originally had a high entrance, but they propolized it up in favour of a gap in the floor, so I guess in this case, at least, they were expressing a preference for a bottom entrance over a top one.

One Q - do you bother to 'control' the entrance size, or do you just let them use the full bar width the whole time?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>One Q - do you bother to 'control' the entrance size, or do you just let them use the full bar width the whole time?

The TTBH uses the migratory cover as the entrance and I put a reducer on it sometimes. The KTBH is only 15" wide and I have never tried to reduce it.


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