# Hive Top Feeder/Killer



## Risky Beesness

Most people consider the entrance feeders as undesirable. I have some top feeders with the floats from HTKrantz and I don't seem to be having the same problem. I also have a different type of top feeder from Mann Lake, and even with the screens, bees somehow get in and drown. I haven't figured that one out yet.


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## Joseph Clemens

I use Ziploc quart size screw top plastic containers. I drill a few 1/8" holes in the blue plastic lids. I place them lid-side down over the top bars, surround it with an empty super. Not a single bee has been drowned, yet.


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## feltze

The hive top feeders with floats or screens hold a lot of feed but resulted in devestating bee drownings last summer for me. I switched to 2 1/2 quart snap top plastic buckets. Drilled 8-10 1/16" holes in the top and inverted them on the inner cover with excellent results.


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## Growing Boy

I have to say that the true art of beekeeping is striking a balance between how fast you kill them as opposed to how fast they reproduce. I have a hive top feeder on top of a hived swarm I caught. There's at least a hundred drowned bees in it. Where'd they come from? When it comes to syrup, bees can get mighty small. Any gap will do. A 32nd of an inch is workable. We're dealing with dedicated factory workers that don't mind overtime. They'll work til they die. They don't take breaks and they have no unions that's why as beeks we sometime have to work overtime to keep up with them.


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## ParanoidBeek

I have used 3 of the hive top feeders. I have also read of people having this problem, but I have never had much problem. The only time is when I let the feeder go dry, and dump in syrup while bees are in and around the floats and can't get away from being drowned when I pour it in too fast. Would some screen on top of the float work? I really like the top feeders and suggest them to anyone that asks, but obviously there is some problem because many people have this problem


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## Rob73

I like the jar feeders on top the best. Easy to change out & fill. Plus,no dead bees. Easy to build yourself if that is your thing. I have some of those beemax foam feeders that I leave on all winter. They work great for that. Too much of a hassle to pull it off the hive, full of syrup with the bottom covered with bees. Cant set it on the ground, cant pour it all out. Not worth the trouble. All winter I may have 20 dead bees up in it. For spring, summer & fall, I like the jar feeders. It takes an empty super to cover the jars, though. The $15 hole saw is the worst part about building them. That pays for itself after a few feeders though.

Rob


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## JRH

Did you buy the wooden one or the plastic one? The designs are quite different. Thanks.


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## Michael Bush

Any feeder with open access drowns a lot of bees. 100 to 200 is pretty minor.


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## Rex Piscator

I just built two hive top style feeders from scratch for myself just the other day[only have a limited amount of supers/for frames only!]. Basically a 1x8 'super' with two 1x8x12.5 inch 'feed platforms' set 1/4 from the bottom on each side. Protein patty fits perfectly on one side and the other gets a jar/'Collins' type feeder. The empty space between the two platforms is roughly 4" and spans the entire box, the bees seem to really like the 'wide access' from the tops of all the frames. Don't know if it's 'proper' to have that much space open across the frame tops, but the bees seem very stress free. Good bee space from top of frames to 1/4 inset under box walls. I really enjoyed building them....., and they seem to work fine. I drilled 0.065 holes in the plastic lids and got quite a few, another 'wide area' to keep the feeding stress to a minimum.

Here's an image I took this morning...










...and a close up of the interior over the frames.










I think I did pretty good, for a total new'bee'....hehehe


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## beehugger

I have those same feeders and I ended up getting some of that plastic mesh that you get from the craft store, (can never remember what they call it). I cut it to fit the floats and it works great. Occasionally a bee will get down below in the corner, but I'm much happier with the feeders now. 
A fellow keeper in our beekeeping club uses the mesh cut into a circle to fit the bottom of a 5 gallon bucket. He staples that to some wood pieces and open feeds his bees.


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## jnick32

I lost a number to begin with too in my top feeder. However, since I took the wire off of the package the bees came in, bent it so it would fit in the crevice (careful not to block the entrance) and slant it down and through the syrup. They come up, walk down, fill up and walk back. I haven't lost any since id did this.


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## msapostol

I put in bunches of cut lavender in the feeder and the bees can climb up onto them.


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## honeybeekeeper

I dont feed at all, they much rather feed on honey!


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## MDS

I prefer not to have to feed by letting them keep more honey and moving excess full honey frames between hives as needed. But, when I do feed such as with new packages I use several types of feeders based on various conditions such as how much feed will they take (nectar flow coming soon ect..) or am I having to feed with medication, or just simply not much time to mess with it.

This is my favorite top feeder: http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/Plastic-10-Frame-Hive-Top-Feeder/productinfo/423/ They take feed from below the feeder. If I have a telescoping cover with a bee escape hole or vents in the inner cover I sometimes tape those off when feeding so the ants don't get in or bees from above. Usually there are not enough bees drowning from above to mess with taping off. I know taping off cuts down on ventilation which is equally as important.

I use entrace feeders a lot, sometimes putting two on at a time. Only problem I have with an entrace feeder (because I don't mind replacing jars when empty) is that you have to have several sizes of entrances reducers depending on if you are using an entrace feeder.

I've always liked the idea of feeding from above with a jar but did not want to cut holes in the tops of my hive covers (I don't use migratory covers).

I'm trying pail feeders this year also on packages which is: http://shop.collinsbeefeeder.com/Ultimate-Bee-Feeder_c3.htm Figure will cut down on chance of robbing from entrance feeders, hold more feed, not cause me to block off ventilation and control the ants a little better. Would assume it would also give them a better chance in cold weather.


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## JeffG

I pulled the hive top feeders off yesterday and replaced them with pail feeders. I'm going to add screen or mesh to the floats. I really like the feeder that Rex built with the pollen patty shelf, nice work! Thank you for all the ideals.


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## honeybeekeeper

It would be better if the patties were on top of the frames and the feeder above the inner cover hole! Right now it looks to be a huge bee space violation! IMO!


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## Michael B

I had the mann lake hive top feeders on my new packages and hated them. Some drowning yes but they were not interested in them.

I surmised the syrup was too cold. I tried filling less and only filling one side with no good results.

I switched to a home made 2 1/2 qt feeder and placed it on the top bars. Much better.

Not a fan of hive top feeders so far. I bet they will be better in august for winter stores with warmer weather.


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## Pyrotechnician

Quail feeder from tractor supply: http://www.tractorsupply.com/livest...equipment/1-quart-screw-on-quail-base-2167159


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## MDS

Pyrotechnician said:


> Quail feeder from tractor supply: http://www.tractorsupply.com/livest...equipment/1-quart-screw-on-quail-base-2167159


I like it other than the red base. Maybe for water if open but I'm not fan of open feeding sugar water. Maybe can just us a standard entrance feeder inside the hive with a spare box around it and top cover if ya really want a top feeder using existing entrance feeder equipment.


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## VirginiaMan

I have two hives with Bushy Mountain hive top feeders on them. At first I thought I was having a lot of drowning (20-30/feeder). Yesterday (3rd week w/feeders) I have very few (less than 10/per). One of the floats may be hanging up; I'll check again tomorrow. If it is, I will take some sandpaper and sand down the ends.


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## KQ6AR

Risky Beesness said:


> Most people consider the entrance feeders as undesirable. I have some top feeders with the floats from HTKrantz and I don't seem to be having the same problem. I also have a different type of top feeder from Mann Lake, and even with the screens, bees somehow get in and drown. I haven't figured that one out yet.


Hi,
We use the mann lake feeder, if the screen isn't cut tight, you have to silicone around the edges.


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## snapper1d

I have use entrance feeders,2 gal pails on top of the frames and entrance feeders on top of the frame and over the years I just went to jars right on top of the frames with no spacers.I had always thought you needed some spacers under your jars but I have found that it really doesnt matter.You can us one jar with spacers and one with out and the bees will drain both of them in the very same amount of time.The pails were the best for adding winter supplies but for this time of year when you are inspecting them regularly the jars work best on top of the frames inside a deep super.


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## crcaudle

Miler Bee Supply makes an awesome hive-top feeder.

I have had very few drowned bees and you can open the top the add syrup without the bees getting out.


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## Pyrotechnician

MDS said:


> I like it other than the red base. Maybe for water if open but I'm not fan of open feeding sugar water. Maybe can just us a standard entrance feeder inside the hive with a spare box around it and top cover if ya really want a top feeder using existing entrance feeder equipment.


That is what I did, empty box on top. The gals seem to like the feeder as they empty it in a little over a day.


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## dmpower

I made a couple of hive top feeders, the style that has the floats on each side. Since I didn't have floats I experimented with a couple of different ideas from around my house. 
One experiment was to use a bamboo sushi roller, very similar to a bamboo place mat. I resized it to fit in one of the side with a little room so it could float freely. It seemed to work fine with a water test outside of the hive, but once it was placed inside the hive with syrup I had a lot of drowned bees.

The floater that worked best came from the stones I had in my open water feeder. I used Hydroton expanded clay balls. They are typically used for hydroponic growing. They are PH neutral and inert and most importantly they like to float! Even after they are saturated they float well enough for the bees.
I tested the clay balls in the feeder and have been using it for about 2 weeks now. I have only seen 2 or 3 drowned bees. I think that is a pretty good number considering the other numbers posted here.
I used a variety of sizes and put in enough to be about a layer and a half. The bees walk over the balls and drink between them. 
You must make sure to wash and rinse these clay balls several times before using them. They have a lot of dust just out of the bag. It can make your syrup muddy.
Good luck!


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## MDS

When I watch the girls attempting to land in our nearly empty kids pool, which I use to water them because they found it on their own, they sometimes miss the landing on the floats. Other times they fly down as if to skim the water and leave. Not sure if that plays a roll in drawning or not reference to feeders. So, I put in wider boards as floats (2" wide) for them to land on and the numbe drawned dropped considerably. 

Now if they are going up from below to get access to the feed I'd agree with the others that the screens that protect them from entering the feed area from below are not tight.


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## Killervector

I have this feeder: http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/Plastic-10-Frame-Hive-Top-Feeder/productinfo/423/

2nd day since install. On one end of the feeder, I've got like 20-30 dead bees. Drowned. It says they can't drown, but I guess they're wrong!


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## RiodeLobo

It seems to me that the numbers that are being discussed are fairly minor in comparison to the population of the hive (or even package). Is a couple hundred bees a week going to make any difference to the colonies? I wouldn't think so but I don't know.


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## dmpower

Maybe not, but over 7 months a couple of hundred bees vs 3 bees adds up. 5600 bees vs 84. With 2 hives, that's your 3# package!


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## MDS

Killervector said:


> 2nd day since install. On one end of the feeder, I've got like 20-30 dead bees. Drowned. It says they can't drown, but I guess they're wrong!


I use the same one. They seem to come in from under the telescoping cover if you have an inner cover with notches. Probably where you can also see the ants getting in LOL. I tape the slot off but am a little concerned about ventilation when I do it. Think I'll try a couple of larger floats in it just in case and then not tape them off any more.


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## dmpower

I don't think you are supposed to use the inner cover with a hive top feeder. I just use a couple of Popsicle sticks for ventilation.
You may want to look at this thread: http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?228042-Top-Hive-feeder-inner-cover-placement
There is a lot of talk about bees drowning with the inner cover on the hive top feeder.


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## MDS

Thanks dmpower. Makes total sence. Outer cover sits flatter no bees get in. Appreciate the advise.


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## Gypsi

Rex Piscator said:


> I just built two hive top style feeders from scratch for myself just the other day[only have a limited amount of supers/for frames only!]. Basically a 1x8 'super' with two 1x8x12.5 inch 'feed platforms' set 1/4 from the bottom on each side. Protein patty fits perfectly on one side and the other gets a jar/'Collins' type feeder. The empty space between the two platforms is roughly 4" and spans the entire box, the bees seem to really like the 'wide access' from the tops of all the frames. Don't know if it's 'proper' to have that much space open across the frame tops, but the bees seem very stress free. Good bee space from top of frames to 1/4 inset under box walls. I really enjoyed building them....., and they seem to work fine. I drilled 0.065 holes in the plastic lids and got quite a few, another 'wide area' to keep the feeding stress to a minimum.
> 
> Here's an image I took this morning...
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> ...and a close up of the interior over the frames.
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> I think I did pretty good, for a total new'bee'....hehehe


This looks nice, easy and drowning proof! Thank you.


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## Dale_3rd

Been doing a LOT or reading; sorry for bringing up this old thread but how has this feeder been performing? I had a similar idea myself and would like to know if this is better/worse than just making a short ring for either a ziplock bag and pollen patty or inverted jar/bucket.


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## Yucca Patrol

I have fed 60 pounds of sugar to my two hives this spring using the Mann-Lake top feeder. In a month, I had a grand total of two drowned bees. I expected a lot more, so I'm very happy with these feeders.


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## TrvVn5

I was using a frame feeder and switched to an entrance feeder because the bees were drowning at a rate that I was uncomfortable with. I was also using floaters to help the bees if they got stuck, but that didn't really seem to make much of a difference.


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## JRG13

Made me a Fat Beeman feeder. Thinking of adding a second ladder to the other side as my hive is getting big and that one gets a little crowded.


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## Michael1964

Hi, Jeff, All,

I have been pretty unhappy with the Brushy Mountain top hive feeder. When I got them they were not what I had ordered in the cat. Some new resigned way using cheap queen excluder... humm.. I bought several of them and I am pretty unhappy because the drown the bees at an alarming rate.. In my opinion.. I did not like the fact that they can fly out when I refill it as well.. So I redid my floats and added a screen to the top.. The bees would go down between the queen ex. float and the bottom of the feeder..Then you when you try to refill it they were trapped..I spend time trying to get them out of the feeder and did nothing up upset them more.. anyway.. 
Now I can just slowly refill it without too many dead bees..
Here are some pics if your interested. 
http://www.dadschevy.com/bee/index.html
Here is one photo show both parts...
http://www.dadschevy.com/bee/slides/TopHiveFeeder_Redone.jpg


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## woodedareas

I use a plastic tray type top feeder. They cost about $25.00 and I place a screened inner cover on top of it and have lost very few bees. They are rigid and made to fit perfectly on my lower brood boxes. I purchased them from Brushy Mountain. They also have less expensive top feeders but hey are too flimsy for my needs. With a screened top cover bees can not get into them.They hold 2 gallons or they can be used for patties.


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## Michael Bush

>have been pretty unhappy with the Brushy Mountain top hive feeder. 

This used to be one of those with a float. I put the lath on the ends for spacers and the screen on to limit their access so they don't drown so much.

http://www.bushfarms.com/images/MillerFeeder2.jpg


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## Slow Modem

deleted


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## Slow Modem

Killervector said:


> I have this feeder: http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/Plastic-10-Frame-Hive-Top-Feeder/productinfo/423/
> 
> 2nd day since install. On one end of the feeder, I've got like 20-30 dead bees. Drowned. It says they can't drown, but I guess they're wrong!


I have one of those feeders, too. I put an empty super around it and the top on top of the super (no inner cover). They can't get into the syrup that way if the feeder is assembled right. I had some drowned bees at first, but I was using the inner cover and I think they were coming in the little vent hole down into the top of the feeder.


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## sfisher

I have 3 of brushy mnts hive top feeders with floats, the most dead bees I have ever had out of any was 5 or 6 dead bees. I dont understand what is happening for people to have so many dead bees. I have even had the floats hang up before, when I go to refill the float will be up top like it was when I filled, but that side will be empty with only a couple of dead bees. I guess I'm lucky.


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## kilnrat

JeffG said:


> I installed Brushy Mountain hive top feeders two weeks ago on both my hives. I was alittle pissed when I opened the hives up today to find 150-200 bees floating in both feeders  . The feeders do have floats in them but they dont seem to work to well. Has any one made in changes to this stye feeder to lessen the number of bees drowning?
> 
> I do have two of these feeders I could install in place of the hive tops:
> http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/Large-Plastic-Entrance-Feeder/productinfo/422L/
> 
> Any information would be helpful, thanks!


Yes, had the same problem ... I stapled screen wire to the top of the floats making sure the fit is good but not rubbing the sides where the floats hang up. This took care of the problem with excessive bees being killed. You will still have a few to die, but nothing like the number before. Good Luck. Kilnrat


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## kincade

MDS said:


> This is my favorite top feeder: http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/Plastic-10-Frame-Hive-Top-Feeder/productinfo/423/ They take feed from below the feeder.


I have this feeder as well and have zero drowned bees with it. Also have the miller style feeder, and without silicone to seal the screen against the bottom i had a lot of drowned bees. Even then they built a ton of comb in the center.


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## Michael1964

Hi, kincade, Do you have the model with the floats made from the plastic queen excluder or they made out of the wooden slats? The guys in my local beekeepers club have the kind with the wooden floats and they are happy with them. I honestly think it is just the new style ones that are trouble... or maybe your bees are smarter than mine anyway..


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## Dale_3rd

A friend of mine got some of these feeders, the Brushy Mountain new style with the queen excluder "platform". One hive, his strong one, had I think 2 dead bees in it, the other hive, 3' away, which is is weak hive, must have had over a 100 dead bees in it. We couldn't tell why the huge difference; surmised that it was the angle of hive not allowing the floats to work as intended. He propped up the front of the hive to level it out a bit and will check it next week.


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## sfisher

I check one of my hives today with the plastic queen excluder platform, and again I had 0 dead beees. Since I run foundationless frames I do have my hives as level as possible.


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## kincade

Michael1964 said:


> Hi, kincade, Do you have the model with the floats made from the plastic queen excluder or they made out of the wooden slats?


I have the one i quoted. This one:

http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/Plastic-10-Frame-Hive-Top-Feeder/productinfo/423/

I have no significant complaints.


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## Michael1964

Oh, Thank you Mr. Kincade, I think we have plans to make our own using the plastic pails and maybe getting away from the ones we have.


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## Dale_3rd

dmpower said:


> {clipped}... I used Hydroton expanded clay balls. They are typically used for hydroponic growing. They are PH neutral and inert and most importantly they like to float! Even after they are saturated they float well enough for the bees.
> I tested the clay balls in the feeder and have been using it for about 2 weeks now. I have only seen 2 or 3 drowned bees. I think that is a pretty good number considering the other numbers posted here.....


Is anyone else using the hydroton balls? How well are they working out? Of course there are many other options and most wouldn't buy this product for this specific purpose, however, I have a LARGE bag that I bought some time ago when I was trying to grow tomatoes in my garage over the winter. Since I have a good amount of unused left, I was thinking of making a double tray hive top feeder like Gypsi posted and using a shallow ziplock/rubbermaid tray filled with syrup and hydroton balls.

Any ideas on this?

Also, if anyone wishes to try these, I have some I could ship out in small quantities for experimental purposes.

Here is a picture of the hydroton for those unfamiliar with it.


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## Ross

For two bucks, you can get new clean gallon paint cans from HD or Lowes. Tap a couple of holes in the top with a sprig nail and invert over a hole in the top. No super is needed to cover the can. You can get fancy and screen the hole in the top or not. I don't bother any more. Almost all of my migratory tops have 2" holes in them. I use a scrap of wood over them when I'm not feeding (most of the time). The bees seal them with propolis. I also use the 2 gallon plastic paint cans at times. They can be a bit harder to get a good air tight seal to keep them from leaking.


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## Dale_3rd

I checked the hydroton / syrup bowls tonight and only had 3 dead bees total out of 4 hives of them. I also had a larger bowl near the hives that seemed to have been completely consumed, even the syrup on the outside of the balls had been licked off and not a single dead bee in the bowl. 

I added more syrup to the bowls and will see how it goes.


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## tommyt

Why Feed ?????????????


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## Dale_3rd

For me, I don't think I've got much of a nectar flow right now. I don't see much of anything blooming right now.


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## Daniel Y

I have seen two feeders I have even like the idea of. neither are open. I also don't accept the kill them in limited numbers approach. Not putting anyone down I just hold myself to a different standard.

The mason jar feeder is what I use now. I also made a stand for the jars rather than just wedges to hold them up off the inner cover. The bit of a spit they have when first inverted is starting to become an issue. it attracts ants if outside the hive and makes a mess of the inner cover if inside.

The other idea I like, have not used but actually have the waterer is a quail waterer with a rope or other object in the trough. It has been my experience that these waterers can cause outright floods so I am a bit reluctant to use them. Either way I don't kill bees feeding them. I won't use an open pan of any kind simply because of the posts I have read about them drowning bees.


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## Begemia

I just started beekeeping this year, but my mentor told us to use the top feeder from MannLake. I have not seen any drown bees - just drown ants.


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## herbcoop

I ordered this one when I started last year and at first I had problems because I think I let it get to low and the bees were able to get inside then they drowned, so what I did was cut 4 pieces of 1/8 screen and attached them where the bees feed and since I did that no dead bees
http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/Multi-Duty-Hive-Top-Feeder-10-frame-only/productinfo/212/


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## dmpower

Dale_3rd said:


> Is anyone else using the hydroton balls? How well are they working out? Of course there are many other options and most wouldn't buy this product for this specific purpose, however, I have a LARGE bag that I bought some time ago when I was trying to grow tomatoes in my garage over the winter. Since I have a good amount of unused left, I was thinking of making a double tray hive top feeder like Gypsi posted and using a shallow ziplock/rubbermaid tray filled with syrup and hydroton balls.
> 
> Any ideas on this? (SNIP)


I liked using these a lot. Unfortunately I did fuzzy math and was feeding .5/1 sugar to water. That left me cleaning the hydroton balls because of mold. This was more work than I had intended even for no dead bees. Before I realized my math mistake, I came up with using 1/8th screen to cover the center feeding area so no bees could climb around the feeding area and drown. That left me with my bees in the feeder when the syrup ran low. I have also done what herbcoop has done and placed 1/8th screen between the bottom of the feeder and the upright so no bees get into the syrup area any more. Since I've refitted my feeder with screen, I haven't gone back to the floating hydroton ball except for some of my water stations. Had I figured my math mistake earlier, I would have tried the balls again and hoped the mold wasn't going to be a problem.
Good luck, I'd love to hear how it goes

just wanted to add that I also have screen where the bees go down to feed so they have no problem getting up and out again


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## RobWok

jnick32 has the trick. I have 5 of those feeders. Same issue. Also ants get in there pretty easy and drown in massive numbers. Also, the bees will tend to build breach comb in the miller feeders. I wouldn't recommend leaving one on during winter though. The liquid can be a heat sink to keep the bees cold, and since the feed has a high moisture content, it will evaporate and condense on the bottom of the feeder and drip on the bees - certain death. 

big fan of entrance feeders. I can tell when they're empty, and when the bees don't need them anymore.


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## westernbeekeeper

Awesome idea, Rex Piscator!


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## Dale_3rd

Here are some photo results of the bowls of syrup with the hydroton ceramic balls. I think they work rather well! Two hives (actually 3 of the 4) had a one quart bowl and mega bee patty the third (picture) hive had a quart and a quart and a half bowl which they had not quite finished up. I had put the bowls in on Sunday; the one quart bowls had been drank dry and there wasn't a single dead bee in either one. The hive that had the 2 bowls was about 3/4 consumed and all the bees you see in the picture were alive. I even filled both back up with the bees in there and they clung to the balls and floated up with them. As an experiment I put some of the hydroton balls in a jar of water to see if they get water logged. Some do and sink but there is enough to still cover the surface and provide a nice floating mat. For those wanting a solution to a watering bucket, this just might be the ticket. I'm planning on making up some hive top feeders and seeing how well these do on a larger scale as well as add them to my friends hives if his HTF's are still causing a lot of bee drowning.


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## Brenda Seader

" Has any one made in changes to this stye feeder to lessen the number of bees drowning?"

I have the hivetop Brushy Mountain feeders, and had the same result you did. Drowned bees everytime I opened it up to fill it. My solution was to cut pieces of plastic cross stitch canvas to fit the floats with just enough clearance on the sides so that they sit flat and don't touch the walls of the feeder. Bees can walk all over this stuff, it's big enough for them to feed thru, and no more drowning. Ask for this at a craft store like JoAnn (Darice Stiff Plastic Canvas 7 Count 12"X18"-Clear) I don"t remember the exact price, about $2.00 for a couple of 12X18" sheets.


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## Dale_3rd

I thought I'd offer an update here.

I had a chance to talk with my friend that is using this type of feeder. Once he leveled up his hives, he's not seen a single drowned bee in them. Probably effected they way the floats worked; so for what it's worth, fed bees and minimal dead ones. All good for him.


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## Ray Bayless

This is my first year as a beekeeper. I chose the Mann Lake
FD-118, plastic two sided with a screen to keep the bees contained. I found that they killed 50-100 bees every couple of days. I was able to greatly reduce the number of dead bees by cutting 5/16" dowels that filled the slots and would rise and fall with the syrup level. The problem I now have is that it gives the SHB places to hide. I'm going with inverted buckets over the innercover.


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