# A swarm in July ain't worth a fly......



## Scott Gough (Dec 10, 2015)

I would have given them an empty frame or two to pull. Swarms are awesome comb pullers so I like to take advantage of that to get more frames pulled.

If you have nectar available now it is not necessary to feed. I do not like to feed unless I have to to keep them from starving or if they need it in the fall for winter stores. I have caught 8 swarms this year and have not fed any of them. 

More space is not needed unless there are too many bees for the deep box. From your comment though it was not a very big swarm. I would let the queen get going and once 7 or 8 of the 10 frames are full then add additional space. 

If July swarms are helped a little with pulled comb and feeding as necessary they will survive just fine. They most likely will not produce a honey crop in the fall like a May swarm can but mine have made it through the winter in good shape.


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

Have done cutouts in September and even October that survived. They had a lot of attention and got fed a lot. 
If you have the time and resources do not hesitate to hive a July swarm. I've caught AUgust swarms that survived but again...attention, love, and fed them.

Have gotten to where I fill a large freezer with full honey supers and now I could just pop a full super onto a struggling colony. If you're about maximizing your honey income it's a foolish trade. Sacrificing close to $200 worth of honey to save a colony of bees is not very good economics. If you love bees you forget about accounting.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Are these swarms originating from the apple tree or is this just where they come to a rest? And if they are just there temporarily....do you know where they are coming from?


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## Spur9 (Sep 13, 2016)

The apple tree is across the fence from my bee yard. Maybe 20 yards. I think the bees are drawn to it for the shade and plenty of branches. 

Pretty sure they are my hives swarming.


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

I think the frames are in a good position for now.
Shouldn't have to feed, but may want to ensure they have enough honey stores to make it through winter when the time comes.

I'd wait a month at least to place the medium super. It will take that long for the population to get re established.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Any thoughts as to why your hives are swarming this late?


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## Spur9 (Sep 13, 2016)

I think this swarm was a supersedure. I had inspected a particular hive about 2 hours prior to the swarm. Saw a single capped queen cell with the side chewed out. Size of swarm was relatively small compared to those that I have experienced.

Snuck home at lunch today and looked in the swarm hive. Queen has already started laying. She's a beauty!!!


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## fieldsofnaturalhoney (Feb 29, 2012)

Spur9 said:


> I think this swarm was a supersedure.


Not sure I understand this:scratch:


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Spur9 said:


> I think this swarm was a supersedure.


Two different things, I'm afraid. In a supercedure...nobody leaves the hive. 
Did you actually see the swarm emit from the hive? 
I've got a couple dozen nucs....loaded with bees and nary a speck of extra space.....and no swarm cells. It's nearly August. We are in the midst of a dearth. Unless they have a death wish, they aren't going to swarm.
I can't imagine it is much different there.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

beemandan said:


> In a supercedure...nobody leaves the hive.


i believe they do sometimes dan.

early this spring i had quite a few colonies supercede. with some of them nobody left as far as i could tell, but with some colonies the size of a double deep's worth of bees or more i saw small swarms of less than 2 deep frames of bees leave.

within the last week, and in two separate yards, i've seen one 'microswarm' in each yard containing no more than a few hundred bees. i saw one of these issue and the other i found after the fact. i'm guessing supercedure with these.

walt wright told me that he would sometimes have these small 'supercedure' swarms issue from his checkerboarded hives. he felt like it was the old queen leaving with a small contingent of faithful followers.

as far as a colony going into full blown reproductive swarm mode this time of year, and assuming that nonstop feeding was not being done, i'm with you in that it's not likely at all that a colony would issue a swarm under these conditions...

on the other hand i'm seeing brooding here at a time of year when the queens are usually shut down, so an 'overcrowding' swarm isn't out of the question.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

squarepeg said:


> i believe they do sometimes dan.


As always...I could be wrong. It's not something I've ever witnessed or heard of....but that doesn't make it absolute.
I've seen any number of supercedures where the old queen remains in the hive, typically neglected until she 'disappears'. 
Whatever drove them to leave this time of year, at least here, their chance of surviving in the wild is nil.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

beemandan said:


> Whatever drove them to leave this time of year, at least here, their chance of surviving in the wild is nil.


agreed dan, and it's the same with around here. if no feeders were in play resulting in the colony becoming 'confused' as to the actual field conditions,

and if due to overcrowding in dearth conditions,

perhaps it's an expression of altruism whereby a part of the colony is sacrificed for the good of the whole. just guessing here.


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

I hived a small swarm last year on 7/7. The swarm was about the size of a pint fruit jar. Not only were we in a dearth, we were in a catastrophic drought and stayed in it until this spring. I put them in a nuc with one frame of drawn comb with eggs and larvae in it. I fed them until they had the other frames drawn out and sometime during that period, I gave them one frame "shake" of nurse bees. I put some dry pollen sub into the comb. They never really built up very strong. Winter came and went and after seeing no activity around the entrance I marked them off the list. I was cleaning up some boxes in early March and when I took the top off that nuc there was a tiny cluster of bees about the size of a tennis ball in the nuc. I added a frame of capped brood and bees and they built up great. Into a double deep by early May. They didn't build up strong enough, fast enough to make any honey.

So, a swarm in July probably isn't worth a fly unless you need some drawn comb or bees to make splits with.


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## Spur9 (Sep 13, 2016)

squarepeg said:


> walt wright told me that he would sometimes have these small 'supercedure' swarms issue from his checkerboarded hives. he felt like it was the old queen leaving with a small contingent of faithful followers.


I envy you being able to have conversed with WW. I read his stuff everyday. I wish that I could find his information on audio.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

If I understand this…the colony supercedure/swarmed on Saturday and by Tuesday there was a fat laying queen in the hive. 
To those of you who’ve had this sort of experience….is this normal?
And…at the risk of repeating myself….to the op….did you actually see this hive swarm?


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## Spur9 (Sep 13, 2016)

beemandan said:


> If I understand this…the colony supercedure/swarmed on Saturday and by Tuesday there was a fat laying queen in the hive.
> To those of you who’ve had this sort of experience….is this normal?
> And…at the risk of repeating myself….to the op….did you actually see this hive swarm?


Did I see it exit out of one of my hive boxes? - no. 
I hived them in a 10 frame deep with drawn comb. 6 frames were empty cells and ready for the bees to prep for eggs. She probably started laying that night.


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## Branman (Aug 20, 2003)

Scott Gough said:


> I would have given them an empty frame or two to pull. Swarms are awesome comb pullers so I like to take advantage of that to get more frames pulled.


I agree with this. They're dyin to pull comb.


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