# Bee Weaver bees/calmness



## sfisher (Sep 22, 2009)

I purchased some Bee Weaver queens for 2013. I was wondering if anyone has had any trouble with them being mean. Also any bees that you may have bred from their queens. Or have they all been nice bees. Thanks Steve.


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## cerezha (Oct 11, 2011)

After reading numerous posts at _beesource _ and based on my own very limited experience, I think that mite-resistance somehow linked to more protective behavior of the bees. I do not know if there is anything real behind such observation. I was thinking another day and it makes sense: if bees are capable to protect their home from intruders and chase me in the house - they probably could do the same for mites and other "visitors". In this sense, mite-resistance may be actually connected to protective behavior (sort of the part of it). Bee Weaver bees are known to be mite resistant. It would be interesting to hear if anybody observed the link between mite-resistance and protective behavior? Under "protective behavior" I do not mean something extreme like AHB; everybody hopefully would agree that there is a difference between bees: some may be worked in T-shirt, some - in beesuit. Mine bees required fancy vented beesuit... they are not Bee Weaver bees.


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## sfisher (Sep 22, 2009)

I figured the same thing also Sergey, I just want to know what to expect when I get them. I know that Bee Weaver has said that they have bred that trait out of them, but I would like to hear some first hand accounts on what people with there queens have to say about it.


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## julysun (Apr 25, 2012)

I have two BWeaver colonies. Mostly calm but if worked roughly can get a bit testy. :lookout:


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## Beehaive (Apr 22, 2012)

julysun said:


> I have two BWeaver colonies. Mostly calm but if worked roughly can get a bit testy. :lookout:


I also have 2 Beaweaver colonies and that is exactly how I would describe them. I think they should be testy if needed to keep beetle and mites at bay, and robbing if it should happen. Overall I am happy with them


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## SRBrooks (Jun 24, 2012)

I love my B Weavers, and have purchased two more packages for Spring. The only time they got super-pissy was when I opened up the hive on a hot, cloudy and humid day.


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## Tom Brueggen (Aug 10, 2011)

Indeed, love my B Weaver bees. I started with one package in April 2012. They built up so quick that I split to 4 nucs, and then built back up to 4 full hives. They are very gentle, and I only get stung when I deserve it. Up until September I was able to mow around and under the TBH's with no issues. But then one hive got knocked down and sits on bricks. When I got close to the entrance a month or so ago (mower exhaust at entrance level), they came out hot! No big deal though, I suited up and finished the work with little disturbance. 

I am 100% satisfied with me B Weaver bees. I have seen no mites, and have observed (filmed) them harassing/removing SHB from the hives. I intend to get 10-20 more packages from B Weaver in spring 2013 to greatly up my herd!


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## mmmooretx (Jun 4, 2012)

I did a similar thread, link below, and am very pleased with my BeeWeaver bees. I have ordered two packages for 6 April pick up in their Navasota site and one for a friend. Riding with me is a another friend picking up a package for his second TBH hive. My history is about half way down in the attached thread link but I consider the bees very peaceful. I sit within 10 feet of the hives watching them periodically and have only gotten the buzz/bump warning a couple of times. I check my FBM feeders daily in my work clothes light or dark clothes with no suit or veil and RARELY have issues. I can do inspections in a short sleeve T shirt with a veil and vinyl gloves with only occasional stings, usually on fingers. I have only had two incidences where they got cranky. The first was when I did a split and inadvertently removed the queen from the donor hive for 2 days, all was peaceful again after the queen was returned for 2 days. My second incident was when I was doing hive stand modifications and all three hives got dumped forward on the ground. They were peaceful again the next day. I have been feeding them, see timeline, this year as a start up and split, but will not feed next year except in dearth periods. I have not seen any mites and they seem to keep the SHB under control. I did put SHB specific nematodes in the ground around the hive that seems to help with the reduction. I am also well pleased with their production, but next year will be my first harvesting. Yes I highly recommend them and will use BeeWeaver as my sole purchase vendor, I could capture some swarms and I would probably re-queen with a BeeWeaver queen. 

http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...r-package-bees-April-2013&highlight=mmmooretx


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

cerezha said:


> After reading numerous posts at _beesource _ and based on my own very limited experience, I think that mite-resistance somehow linked to more protective behavior of the bees. I do not know if there is anything real behind such observation.


I've heard of no research that supports this conjecture. Not saying there is none, I've just not seen it. I've got VSH bees (and other hygienic bees) that are very gentle and also very mite resistant. On the surface there doesn't seem to be a correlation between protective behavior and mite resistance. Any references to the contrary would be appreciated.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

AstroBee said:


> I've heard of no research that supports this conjecture. Not saying there is none, I've just not seen it. I've got VSH bees (and other hygienic bees) that are very gentle and also very mite resistant. On the surface there doesn't seem to be a correlation between protective behavior and mite resistance. Any references to the contrary would be appreciated.


Well yes....and no. African bees (scuteletta) which can be, of course, extremely aggressive have a natural advantage in their battle against varroa because the gestation of the worker is 1 to 2 days less than other domestic bees. A pet theory of mine is that there is more hybridization going on than many realize in these transitional areas where almost mysteriously African bees have never moved into (which is where Weavers are located). The result could well be a slightly more aggressive bee that has some natural mite tolerant advantages without the many disadvantages that the African bee presents. Again it is only a theory but it is of a lot of interest to me personally as we purchased a lot of bees from Weavers many years ago and now we raise our own bees in a similar area. Perhaps it is only my imagination but it seems like in the past decade bees are slightly more aggressive and also considerable more mite tolerant. Weavers are very reputable producers, nice to see they are finally getting recognized by so many people on here.


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## SRBrooks (Jun 24, 2012)

BWeaver Bees are hybrids of 4 kinds of bees, the smallest part being intentionally AHB. 

I get the feeling that one of the reasons my BWeavers are so resistant to mites is because the hive is just so ****ed strong. It has tripled in size since April, 2012. Another poster today---also a BWeaver believer---said he can't even find mites on his, and has seen his girls "wrestle" SHB.

Yes, the Weavers are great to deal with.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

The phrase "protective behavior of the bees" is what I was responding to, which of course may have nothing to do with AHB. AHB is, of course, very protective, but as you pointed out has other traits that may help it against varroa. 

And your comment: "...transitional areas where almost mysteriously African bees have never moved into..." Didn't you hear that they have perfected invisible biosphere technology...nothing unwanted can penetrate it. I'll send you a link if you want....


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

AstroBee said:


> The phrase "protective behavior of the bees" is what I was responding to, which of course may have nothing to do with AHB. .


Agree completely
Invisible biosphere? I'm afraid to ask but I think I might have seen something about it at the checkout counter the other day, the story about Bigfoot being alive caught my eye and...


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## Riskybizz (Mar 12, 2010)

I have one Beeweaver yard with probably 15 hives in it. Some are swarm cell splits from my BW queens. The queens definately hold their own, build large colonies and have overwintered well. I think I lost one colony in that yard last winter. They just up and left with 2 shallows full of honey. I have not seen that happen often though. I will say that I do notice a difference working this yard especially in the spring if the weather happens to be cold and windy. I found that out the hard way a couple years ago. Other than that I have no problems working them as I do my other yards. Just a veil, no gloves etc. My wife calls them 'crazy bees".


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## Paul McCarty (Mar 30, 2011)

jim lyon said:


> A pet theory of mine is that there is more hybridization going on than many realize in these transitional areas where almost mysteriously African bees have never moved into (which is where Weavers are located). The result could well be a slightly more aggressive bee that has some natural mite tolerant advantages without the many disadvantages that the African bee presents.


I agree with you totally. I too live in a transition area. I also deal with lot's of feral bees. I know what I see - most of my wild bees don't need treatment and are only slightly more aggressive than "regular" bees. I have also had totally domestic bees that would allow yellow-jackets and other pests to enter their hive and steal while the wild bees would kill them. I have also watched my wild bees groom mites off each other. I don't think they would tolerate mites. I really hate to see people automatically re-queen or destroy swarms and hives because they are wild. I think most people would be shocked at the results of a DNA test on their darling sweet little bees. There is a lot more African out there than just the Brazilian kind.

Now I do have some mountain bees I suspect to be an AMM/AMI type of bee. Those little girls can be downright ugly, but they can crank out some honey!


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## cerezha (Oct 11, 2011)

Paul McCarty said:


> ... I have also watched my wild bees groom mites off each other. I don't think they would tolerate mites. I really hate to see people automatically re-queen or destroy swarms and hives because they are wild. I think most people would be shocked at the results of a DNA test on their darling sweet little bees. There is a lot more African out there than just the Brazilian kind...


 Yes, my girls do the same - they have a dedicated area at the landing board and they have "quality control girls" who check every bee before entering into the hive. The difference is that we are 100% AHB area (SoCal) and my feral/survival bees supposed to be 100% AHB. Nevertheless, they let me to sit next to the hive and have tea-party 5-10 feet away from the hive. My house - in 10-20 feet from this "AHB" in very urban area! But, yes, they are protective of the hive - clumsy inspection will agitate them. It seems to me that my bees behaved similarly to Weaver bees, how come?


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## Paul McCarty (Mar 30, 2011)

'Weavers have a little African in them, due to the Buckfast breed - and probably more so because they came from Texas. A lot of our ferals act very similar IMHO. I have several friends with Beeweavers and can't tell much difference only that the wild bees are a bit swarmier. The truly African traits of runny nervous bees, swarminess, excess defensiveness, and lack of honey - gets my girls a new queen.

One of my friends had a hive of them that he started in May and it swarmed several times this year, so yeah, I guess they can be swarmy too.


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## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

I have 6 hives today. One Rweaver Buckfast and two BeeWeaver queens. Those three are not as protective as my Carniolan/Italian queens mated with my local drones. All keepers, no more defensive than my first Italian hive in 1977. I've heard anecdotal reports, but my experience is negative for defensive bees from the Weavers.


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## Paul McCarty (Mar 30, 2011)

People worry too much about African heritage in my opinion. If you don't like the way they behave, re-queen them. There's worse stuff out there to deal with.


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## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

Brother Adam concluded ALL Apis Mellifera bees came from Africa.


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## cerezha (Oct 11, 2011)

Lburou said:


> Brother Adam concluded ALL Apis Mellifera bees came from Africa.


_**** sapiens_ as well!


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## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

cerezha said:


> _**** sapiens_ as well!


Yes indeed


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## Riverratbees (Feb 10, 2010)

I bought 3 in July no complaints here all 3 hives are very strong. Went into winter with large cluster and plenty of honey reserves if it is not another warm winter. Ya aggressive behavior and being mite resistent are 2 traits in one. I noticed that in some bees I got out of a old house when I first started keeping bees.


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## sfisher (Sep 22, 2009)

So from most of the replies so far, I guess you could say that they are not calm bees at all.


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## cerezha (Oct 11, 2011)

sfisher said:


> So from most of the replies so far, I guess you could say that they are not calm bees at all.


 It looks like my bees and many other feral/survivor bees are very similar: they do protect the hive from ANY intruders including mites, humans etc. I never had other bees, so it is impossible to compare. Speaking about my bees, they are calm most of the time - I am sitting next to the beehive every morning, no problem at all. But, getting into the nest with clumsy hands made them mad very quickly! With my limited experience (and confidence) they usually tolerate upper 3 boxes and THAN switch into "protective" mode! I have to tell you, their "protection" is something! But even in this agitated state, they usually do not follow me more than 20 feet and calmed down substantially withing an hour or two... 2-3 bees would patrol my backdoor for 3-7 days... after that - everything very peaceful and calm - nice, very "gentle" girls, busy working... After this thread, I really think that "protective" behavior and mite resistance is one thing - it is just protective behavior against everything, it is just one useful trait, than, it is not possible to separate those two things - "mite resistance" and "protective behavior".


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Well calm is a description that folks may or may not assign to bees relative to how they are acting on any given day. Let's remember it is a natural instinct for bees to defend their hive. I am not sure that Weaver bees are really any less calm than bees from any other source. If you are worried about being attacked by just being near a hive then let me put you at ease, that isn't going to happen but hey they are honeybees and like any others they will occasionally sting you if you don't handle them properly and that's not exactly a bad thing.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

cerezha said:


> After this thread, I really think that "protective" behavior and mite resistance is one thing - it is just protective behavior against everything, it is just one useful trait, than, it is not possible to separate those two things - "mite resistance" and "protective behavior".


Back 12 years ago, I had some Starline hybrids that would eat you alive- attacks unprovoked from 70 yards after several days post inspection! These bees were also loaded with mites. Just because your bees are "protective" does not necessarily mean that they will be mite resistant. AHB have several mechanisms that improve their mite resistance. Perhaps as pointed out by Jim Lyon, there has been much more AHB hybridization than commonly acknowledged. But my current understanding is that, *in general*, there is no correlation protective behavior and mite resistance. Mite resistance is obviously a very complex phenomenon, but we see improvements via several distinct mechanisms, some totally unrelated to protective behavior.


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## cerezha (Oct 11, 2011)

AstroBee said:


> ... there is no correlation protective behavior and mite resistance. ..


 I guess, it depends from definitions... in AHB case, there is a correlation between protective behavior and mite resistance. It depends,what you called "correlation". I was talking mainly at the phenotype level. On genotype level - of coarse many genes involved...


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## hilreal (Aug 16, 2005)

I believe the mite resistance is due to the constant swarming not protective behavior.


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## cerezha (Oct 11, 2011)

hilreal said:


> I believe the mite resistance is due to the constant swarming not protective behavior.


 I guess, this is one mechanism. But my bees do not swarm often. They swarmed once. Nevertheless, they are mite-resistant for more than a year in my hands and a few years before. No treatment at all.


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## Paul McCarty (Mar 30, 2011)

There are a lot of myths out there involving AHB. All bees are swarmy. The main thing with AHB is that they produce worker bees in a staggering number. I had a hive once that tested out as AHB that went from a cut-out of 3 frames which grew to 4 boxes and made a good honey crop within 2 months. Very impressive. They were difficult to work because they were horribly nervous and runny, so I re-queened them. They never did swarm on me, but when I pulled their queen to re-queen them they made 14 queen cells to replace her - almost over night. 

Back to the subject of Beeweaver bees. The bottom line is that they are a "survivor" breed and basically very similar to domesticated ferals in many ways.


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## mmmooretx (Jun 4, 2012)

hilreal said:


> I believe the mite resistance is due to the constant swarming not protective behavior.


I think I read somewhere that the AHB had slightly larger mantibles and groomed more aggressively. Yes the BeeWeaver breed has some of the genotypes of all the breeds but are primarily Italian hybrids. Listen to part one and two of their YouTube video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQhwc3Rt-g0&feature=youtube_gdata_player


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## sfisher (Sep 22, 2009)

Jim Im not worried about being attacked, I have a acre lot with a six foot solid fence all the way around the backyard. I have a neighbor with a driveway right on the other side of the fence. I usually only work my bees on my day off which is Sunday. If Im working my bees and he is working on his boat, I dont want to get him attacked. Im sure B Weaver bees wouldnt do that all the time, but I cant have it happen at all. Im just looking for someone to tell me what there B Weaver bees are like, and hopefully they would say nice. What I am hearing from most people is that they are defensive. I dont mind them being defensive, as long as they know who to be defensive against. Please keep the post comming, Im waiting to see the one that says his B Weaver bees are the gentelist bees he's ever seen. Steve


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## cerezha (Oct 11, 2011)

sfisher said:


> ... I dont mind them being defensive, as long as they know who to be defensive against....


 If they are similar to mine (survivor), than, yes, they do know against who be defensive. They somehow identify me (properly) as a reason for disturbance. We have a large screened window and after disturbance 2-3 bees patrols the backdoor and window. They do zig-zag and trying to bump the screen when I am standing next to the screen (no beesuit). They are not interested at all when my wife is standing instead me. So far, they extend their defense to our backyard, which is 50' may be and keep it under control for a few days. But last time they were more than usual agitated - one girl managed to sting neighbor's gardener, which was not good at all! With two beehives and 5 neighbors, only one casualty has been reported withing the year.


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## mmmooretx (Jun 4, 2012)

I have 3 hives of their bees on a residential lot here in Houston and have not had an issue. I have a chair I sit in to watch them 10' from the hives and have been buzzed only a couple of times. I have run the weed eater around the hives and the back yard and never have been attacked. No I do not wear a bee suit or veil when running the weed eater. While my experience is limited, started beekeeping on 2 June 2012, I have no problem highly recommending them. They are very productive and I have done hive inspections in a short sleeve T shirt with a veil and medical inspection gloves many times without a sting. Usually I get 2-3 that buzz around my veil but that is it. My three hives are all double deeps so a full inspection can be pretty invasive a little smoke seems to take care of it. I have two package bee sets on order for a 6 April pick up at their Navasota facility and am looking forward to that. My first one was a NUC and 2 & 3 were splits from hive 1 with BeeWeaver queens coming in the mail. I just rescued a small hive, in a trash can, last night and will pick up the NUC tonight. The captured hive bees were amazingly gentle, only 2-3 lbs. of bees in the hive. They seem to be smaller bees but I hope they do well and survive the winter. These will be my first "feral" bees, if I see any issues I will just re-queen with a BeeWeaver queen. I hope they do not get defensive like Sergey's, but that is part of learning about our girls.... 



sfisher said:


> Jim Im not worried about being attacked, I have a acre lot with a six foot solid fence all the way around the backyard. I have a neighbor with a driveway right on the other side of the fence. I usually only work my bees on my day off which is Sunday. If Im working my bees and he is working on his boat, I dont want to get him attacked. Im sure B Weaver bees wouldnt do that all the time, but I cant have it happen at all. Im just looking for someone to tell me what there B Weaver bees are like, and hopefully they would say nice. What I am hearing from most people is that they are defensive. I dont mind them being defensive, as long as they know who to be defensive against. Please keep the post comming, Im waiting to see the one that says his B Weaver bees are the gentelist bees he's ever seen. Steve


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## Paul McCarty (Mar 30, 2011)

Just watch your new ferals. If they start bearding heavily or form a beard/collar around the top of the hive when you open it up, or if they are really nervous and drip off the frames and run around like roaches - definitely re-queen. Those are all the warning signs of high AHB genetics. The famed defensiveness can come and go - it's really more like unpredictability. They are sort of like "wild" bees on turbo mode. That's what makes them dangerous to the unprepared or unexpecting beekeeper and his surroundings.


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## trance (Mar 29, 2013)

As some have stated, requeen. SO I am curious. If you requeen with an Italian and not another Beeweaver queen, will they continue to be Varroa resistant and all? WHat happens when you requeen these hives with another queen not from B weaver is my point?


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## Tom Brueggen (Aug 10, 2011)

The genetics (varroa resistance and calmness) are both in the queen. If you requeen, your hive genetics will turn over in 5-6 weeks. That's not necessarily a bad thing. But that's where Beeweaver makes their brand, in there queens. You could get a colony of Africanized worker bees and requeen with a Beeweaver, and in 5-6 (summer) weeks have nice bees. The old mean ones will die off and be replaced by gentle genetics.


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## trance (Mar 29, 2013)

Not trying to be difficult but curious. So you wouldn't get half and half? Meaning the drones DNA/traits of say an Italian mixed with B Weaver Queen would be canceled out in 5/6 summer weeks? 

For example if I took the B Weaver queen out and added say a VSH Queen, the drones of the B Weaver DNA/Traits wouldn't matter, it's all dictated by the Queen? (I wouldn't say this is hard to believe as some species of fish can change sex like the Clown Fish and other odd animals that do some pretty amazing things). However there are Hybrid bees and in fact B Weaver has 4 or so Bees races in their Bee lines. So the Bees would be half Italian and Half Bee Weaver (Buckfast) but all the Hygiene traits and calmness is only passed down from the Queen? Or did I not understand your point? I really am trying to understand.

Wouldn't have fixing the AHB issue been faster? If you just requeened with the Buckfast colonies that didn't get infested with AHB if none of the traits are kept, but wait. Some traits have to be kept, that's how the Buckfast bee was made?


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## Tom Brueggen (Aug 10, 2011)

The new queen that you put in is already mated, therefore the genetics of the drones left behind from the old queen will not mate with her. I suppose if the drones are mean they might bother you, but they don't have stingers anyway, so you can just slap them around and laugh. Now, if you introduce a virgin queen, and she mates with only drones left behind by the BeeWeaver queen ,then indeed, her offspring would be half and half.

I don't know what you're saying about the Buckfast colonies not getting infested by AHB? Is there some evidence that Buckfast bees are not susceptible to mating with AHB. There are rare instances where an AHB queen will move into a calmer Italian hive, kill that queen, and take over. But otherwise, if AHB is in your area, then your only real risk is a virgin queen mating with a few AHB drones, thus causing her to put off some mean bees. But keep in mind, the queen will mate with 10-20 drones. Let's say 20, and she mates with only one AHB drone. So statistically, 1 in every 20 of her worker bee offspring will be half AHB. I believe I have witnessed this in a hive I inherited. I could go out there one minute, walk right up to the hives with no issues. Go back hours later, and a bee met me coming, 30 feet away, and stung my arm before I even knew what happened. I have no proof they were AHB, but certainly there were a few bad apples in the bunch. I got rid of that hive, and the associated aggression.


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## mmmooretx (Jun 4, 2012)

trance your query depends on whether the VSH queen is mated or a virgin on the changes to the hive. Queens only make one mating flight and mate with 30 or more drones for their lifetime supply of sperm. So if you add a mated VSH queen she will not collect any BeeWeaver drone characteristics for any of her children. From what I have read on queen rearing you will never know what kind of drones she mated with, at least for the small apiaries. The large commercial queen rearing areas "flood" the area with their drones, but they are still at risk for picking up some random unknown drones. True or not I have read that queens tend to not mate with drones from their hive. 
I am not an expert, but have read one book on queen rearing and decided to leave it up to others. I now have 6 BeeWeaver populated hives and am very happy with them. I constantly walk around them, 2-3 feet away, and my only impacts are when I am in the return flight path. 6 Apr. '13 I installed 4 packages, pulled comb from 2 existing hives, and only got one sting on my thumb, no gloves. One install was into a friends TBH.


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## trance (Mar 29, 2013)

I was assuming that Bee Weaver must of had some hives out of the thousands they have didn't get AHB into them but again, assuming and no real proof. Maybe all their hives did get AHB influence... My bad for assuming actually.


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## Hambone (Mar 17, 2008)

I have 2 beeweaver hives. One will be 5 years old this year. Best "bought" bees I've had.


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## mmmooretx (Jun 4, 2012)

trance said:


> I was assuming that Bee Weaver must of had some hives out of the thousands they have didn't get AHB into them but again, assuming and no real proof. Maybe all their hives did get AHB influence... My bad for assuming actually.


Listen to how Daniel Weaver describes their bees on YouTube, 2 parts, it is actually pretty interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQhwc3Rt-g0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cbCZOCyD-c


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## mmmooretx (Jun 4, 2012)

Hambone said:


> I have 2 beeweaver hives. One will be 5 years old this year. Best "bought" bees I've had.


Just curious if you have re-queened (assuming BeeWeaver queens) or if the hives have replaced their own queen? I am starting season 2 with my first 3 BeeWeaver hives (1=NUC, 2&3 are splits from 1 with 2 BeeWeaver mated queens purchased).
Thank you for your time in advance.


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## Riverratbees (Feb 10, 2010)

I have bought there bees for 4 yrs. for a specific be yard. I usually blow thru my hives 15 minutes tops and never had a problem except 1 time I contacted Laura and she sent 3 to replace the 1 queen. I have had good experience with there strain so no complaints here.


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## Hambone (Mar 17, 2008)

mmmooretx said:


> Just curious if you have re-queened (assuming BeeWeaver queens) or if the hives have replaced their own queen? I am starting season 2 with my first 3 BeeWeaver hives (1=NUC, 2&3 are splits from 1 with 2 BeeWeaver mated queens purchased).
> Thank you for your time in advance.


I have not requeened. They have just replaced their own. I don’t do any treatments either.


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## sfisher (Sep 22, 2009)

Update, so far my Bweaver queens are the gentlest and hardest working bees I have.


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