# First hive opening-observations and questions



## Sam-Smith (Jul 26, 2009)

Don't disturb them at this point, keep feeding until they have capped honey stores, they look like a clump until you can see the comb poking out of the cluster of bees, if its still cold in your area or the bees start building comb the wrong direction cut out some cardboard forms that match your hive inside and use them to limit the space the bees have to about 4 or 5 bars depending on the size of your colony. 
Welcome to top bar beekeeping! Don't get discouraged by "traditional beekeepers" looks of disbelief and horror, it come with the territory.


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## Parker Rowe (Apr 26, 2010)

Are these card board forms what are called "follower boards? I was thinking it must be hard for them to keep that whole area warm,,,it is cold here overnight still,(30's),DEFINATLY get some funny looks and scoffs when you say you have topbars!!!! I will be starting a langsforth hive with a local nuc next week,,,looking forward to compare and contrast! Thanks for the reply! Parker


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## Sam-Smith (Jul 26, 2009)

Yea you can use follower boards if you have them, its just if you don't and need a quick fix cardboard works to  Will you be going foundation-less with the lang?


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## Parker Rowe (Apr 26, 2010)

Not in the first lang...I am going to use all standerd equipment and peirco plastic foundation with wooden frames (have it allmost all put together),,I want to do some comparing and contrasting and see the end results of each system,,(I will also be medicating this hive per mentors instructions),I had a lot of fun with my mentor going thru his hives (4) and splitting 2 of them,,the lang hives seemed ALOT easier to work with-manipulate and see what was happening in than the top bar ALTHOUGH the lang hives were well established and very well populated,,,and he knew what he was doing,,(I also like the idea of being able to easily move the lang hive-think moving the top bar would be more difficult),,,I am looking into purchasing enough frames from Humbel Abode to put together a 4 hive (2nd lang) and that would be foundationless..(and non medicated)....at the moment I am really trying to find a system that works for the bees in this area,,,it gets COLD here in the winter,,Thanks for your response! Parker


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## trentfysty (May 18, 2010)

If the bees are bringing in pollen that is a really good sign. As others have said, don't disturb them as the are propably building comb in that ball you see. Until there is enough comb for the bees to spread out on it can seem like they are just huddled in a ball. In the middle of that ball they are busy building out the comb. Give it a few weeks and you should see comb peeking out from the mass of bees. Also check during the middle of the day when more bees are out foraging as that might make it easier to spot the comb. 
Above all be patient and let the girls do their work and you will be supprised at how busy they have been.


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## Sam-Smith (Jul 26, 2009)

Lang frames are easier to work with, I personally love tbh, one because they are horizontal you can get into the broodnest without moving all the honey supers, another one is they have more room for brood comb without frames, frames are also harder to build  At the very least I would go foundationless if you let the bees build their own cell sizes you can stabilise your verroa populations.


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## Parker Rowe (Apr 26, 2010)

What is the best way you have found to get the bees building in the correct direction in a foundationless hive? I talked to one fellow that said he had starter strips in the top of the frame and they still built comb perpendicularly to the strips across all 8 frames, affectivly making that medium unopenable,,,said it was a while befor he checked on them..........
I am getting a 5 frame nuc today! that will go in the traditional lang,,,building swarm traps and lang style deep boxes in the sugarhouse turned bee woodenware facilty,,,what fun! Will be checking into the 2 topbars tommrow (not getting into the ball just opening above the feeder and checking if they want more sugarwater) Thank you all so much for the responses you advice and experiance is greatly appricated! Parker


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## Sam-Smith (Jul 26, 2009)

I use triangles attached to my top bars, I find the best way to get em building the right way is to limit the number of bars so the longest way to build is along the bars, might not be possible with a really big swarm and you need to check them very soon after to make sure they have room. Only hive that went 90deg off course was a small swarm I installed, when I limited the space they went the right way (had to basically shake them out of the small hive they had built). This year I built some cut-out frames that I could use to change the comb direction.


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## duck_nutt (Apr 27, 2010)

Parker Rowe said:


> What is the best way you have found to get the bees building in the correct direction in a foundationless hive?




I cut 1/16 grove down the center of the bar 1/4 inch deep(saw blade width) then cut 1/16 inch strips 1/2 inch wide and glued them in..then melted a thin layer of bees wax down the strip...hope that makes them build right when I install them.(saw the wax thing on the internet, except he used string as a guide). I hope the strips stickin down 1/4 inch keeps them working straight

I'm also thinking about making some bars with wires looping down in case I have some comb to help start them building right...like in the case of a cutout...I thing I'll just cut the bars in half, and use some thicker, stiff wire that'll hold the comb. maybe I should make it and add pics...


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## brac (Sep 30, 2009)

Parker Rowe said:


> I attended my first bee club meeting friday night and was told if the bees are carring in pollen the queens are alive and laying


If only it was that easy, I have seen lots of queenless hives bringing in pollen. I don't do top bar hives, but I can't see there being a difference in that respect. Anybody else ever heard that?


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## Parker Rowe (Apr 26, 2010)

BIG FUN IN THE BEE YARD!!!!
OOHHH THOSE ITALIAN GIRLS!!! Man, they have been busy!! opened both hives today to get feeders out and just could not help myself,,the first hive had 2 fully built combs of honey,,2 pretty full combs of brood and one partial of pollen,,LOTS of bees,,saw the queen,,,,second hive had one and a half (kinda stuck together) full combs built containing honey, 2 of brood and 1 of pollen,,,and LOTS OF BEES!!! they are hammering,,butiful white comb,,be back in there next sat or sun,,,,
Got a nuc from my mentor from a split we did last week,,got it home and took the bottom board off and put the medium 10 frame body on a deep super of perico coated foundation and a new HUMBEL ABODES screened bottom board,,looked at the old bottom board had a hand full of bees on it and,,,THE QUEEN,,,,as this was regestering in my mind she flew off,,,after some time she returned,,she is very loud when she flys and twice the size of the other bees,,,she came out agine later in the day and was on tour,,saw her go in agine,,,mentour speculates this is a virgin queen on a mating flight,,any speculation? the nuc is from a overwintered (from a VERY STRONG hive) carolinian......
Built 3 swarm traps,,have lemongrass oil and drawn comb inside,,will deploy tommrow,,,,Mentor thinks I should leave one near my bee yard incase one of my hives swarms,,,think they have plenty of room in there hives though,,,,any thpoughts greatly appricated,,,
having my idea of a good time in Salisbury,,,Parker


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## Sam-Smith (Jul 26, 2009)

only 2 combs of brood with 2 full combs of honey sounds off this time of year to me, you should probably stop feeding them. Are you using top bar hives? I only ask because you mentioned foundation.


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## Parker Rowe (Apr 26, 2010)

The first 2 hives are top bars and the 3rd that the nuc went in is a lang.....I did not refill their feeders as it looks like they had plenty of stores,,,,,what are your thoughts on the queen flying around? That has me pretty nervous,,not too many bees going in and out of the lang with the nuc in it (but it is their 2nd day here,,Thanks,Parker


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## Parker Rowe (Apr 26, 2010)

The temp almost hit 90 here today,,had alot of bees on the outside of the top bar hives and alot fanning,,,I built my top bar hives with no ventalation,,and will be anxious to see if the comb fell off the bars (looked a littel weak-jiggley last sunday-temps in the upper 70's) I dont plan on doing any ventalation modifacations,,,BUT,,might this help? I could drill holes, ect....but trees hives dont have a bunch of holes drilled in them,,,,,,theTBH hives are really thriving,,,
THe lang nuc on the other hand seems to be falling on its face,,I have seen bees with deformed-no wings comming out of it,,very littel foraging activites,,and the italians INVADE it if I open the entrance reducer at all,,,this will be a great test to see if the tbh-italian-small-natural cell thing pans out cause I am sure the robbers brought back plenty of mites....got my fingers crossed that the lang will come into it and the italians will scofff at the mites,,,but I am a dreamer!


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## Parker Rowe (Apr 26, 2010)

Dissaster!! Was working in one of my TBH yesterday (70's) and one entire comb and part of another fell right off the bars,(boggels the mind-combs seem pretty wimpy),many bees killed and damaged,,I left the combs in there,,,I have built 3 top bars with thin frames around them and wire to wrap the comb inside,,will check here first befor I appempt to put comb back inside these holders,,,2 questions,,,how can I tell if I killed the queen,,,,any thoughts about putting comb back vertical (in holders) after its been on hive body overnight,,,,What a rotten felling,,,,,any toughts appricated...


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## Sam-Smith (Jul 26, 2009)

the bees can keep their hive cool usually without any trouble, you have to be careful with new comb it tends to be fragile, what kind of top bars are you using? triangle, popsicle stick, wax kreff? As long as the queen wasn't killed they will repair everything 21c (70f) is no ware near hot enough to cause heat related comb failure, are they hives steady in the wind, not wobbly? You can not tilt a tbh comb like you can a lang frame, also you have to cut the wall attachments before pulling the comb out, I made a cutter with a bent wire looks like an L with the bottom flattened and sharpened so I can pull it along the wall to cut attachments. The only problem I have had with no ventilation is in the winter from condensation.


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## Parker Rowe (Apr 26, 2010)

I am useing wooden triangels (like corner moulding) under the bars,,I think my failure was in not removing the side attachments first-I was trying to simply slid the bars on the hive body(Want to put bars between all the comb they are building in the center of the hive to spread them out-reduce swarming?) I was not trying to not lift up of tilt the bars-how long befor comb gets stronger?...I will try to put the combs in the holders today (rained yeaterday)....Thank you so much for the response.....I learn from my mistakes,,,,but this was a rotten mistake on my part!


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