# Where to get, what bees, in Central NY area - Potential Bee Keeper



## Solomon Parker (Dec 21, 2002)

Beelosopher said:


> I am looking into where I should get bees. I want to go treatment free from the start. I am near dadant and they seem to be a quite reputable bee outfit.


Dadant is a reputable beekeeping equipment outfit, not a bee outfit. Any bees you get from them will likely be shipped in bulk from the south. I recommend purchasing bees from as close to you as you are able, further north is even better. You do have people in your general vicinity who keep bees treatment free such as Sam Comfort of Anarchy Apiaries. He uses topbar hives.





Beelosopher said:


> I am was wondering what types of bees were recommended for no treatment and if people had good luck with them. Originally my plan had been to simple try a trap out in my ash tree, or hope for a swarm. Is this a good idea?


No specific type is necessary, and catching your own is a fantastic idea, just not guaranteed to work.





Beelosopher said:


> It seems the more I read the more I see how frequent a loss of a hive is. Is it wise to keep a certain number of hives to help mitigate hive loss?


I recommend a minimum of five hives. My lowest point was going into a winter with 7 and coming out with 2. After a few years of populations balancing and weak ones dying off, the death rate drops dramatically. Last winter I lost only 1 of 11. The key is allowing the dieoff. It has to happen. And it will happen either with you, or whoever raised your queens, but it has to happen.

StevenG has an ongoing thread on this website where he chronicles his treatment free experience. He started with queens from several sources, BWeaver, Purvis, and some others and has had great success. When I started, there were no treatment-free bees available, so I had to do it the hard way. Here it is. http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...reatment-of-Honey-Bees-Report-quot-by-StevenG

Keep reading and learning.


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## Beelosopher (Sep 6, 2012)

Thank you so much for the information. I actually had been reading through Steveg's thread and the browser crashed and I hadn't found the link again yet... perfect! I understood most of it, but some terminology I didn't have right away - but I am learning. I even have some notes on what he thinks is best for the start up on tx free bee keeping. 

I will look into that Apiary you mentioned. I would love to trap out my hive but I want to be sure I know enough to keep them and not damage what I have there already. C. Hogan sent me some info on how he has done it. In my case it is a little tricky because the hive has two openings, one on each side of the tree.


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## Beregondo (Jun 21, 2011)

Hey Beelosopher.
The guys at the Dadant store are a good bunch. if you call ahead, they'll have your stuff waiting for you.

I'm in Elmira, about 20 minutes from Waverly.

I've had good results from a colony I trapped out last year from an unheated wall space. I split that colony into several this yaer. I have purchased queens from Kale Luce in Cattaragus as well as Jason Varner near Lewistown, PA. 
I've been happy with both guys and their bees.

Sam's bees at Anarchy Apiaries, are kept treatment free entirely if in understand correctly.
I've not treated any of my hives, and the ones doing best are a Sunkist from Jason, and a Hybrid 410 queen from Kale...no signs of varroa problems, built up quite well, and are on track for having a comfortable reserve of food stores for winter.

I'd wait til spring and buy a regionally overwintered nuc or three to start off with. Joel at Nature's Way Farm near Elmira may have some, though I think most of theirs winter in the south, and I know Jason Varner will be selling overwintered nucs next spring as well. If you decide to let get nucs from him please let me know, as I likely will as well, and might be able to pick yours up when I get mine.


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## Beelosopher (Sep 6, 2012)

Beregondo - Thanks for that information - super valuable and appreciated. I actually know a guy in Elmira that is looking to start up too (think he plans to build boxes this weekend!). He is a guy I know through the brewing forums so I am not sure what his philosophy is a on keeping the bees, but he did say he had several locations he was planning to place bees next spring (I think).

The basic difference in a nuc vs. bees is that they come in the box (smaller in size) with some comb established and bees and queen already acting as a colony? Forgive my ignorance.

If you might be able to pick up for me that would increase the chance I might buy from there. I was trying to find bees in a colder climate though, so had planned on trying to buy here, or more north.

Buying an established hive or a nuc sounds appealing if I in fact have hte correct understanding of what a nuc is.


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## Beregondo (Jun 21, 2011)

A nuc is four or five frames with a mated queen.
An overwintered nuc is one where that small colony is put together in the fall, has become established, survived the winter together healthy and thriving...There is no better way to get started, IMO than with an overwintered nuc.

Spring/summer nucs are four or five frames, of which at least 2-3 should be brood, one food,and a mated queen. These are often frames form different colonies, and the queen is often aa stranger to all of them. 
It's not an established colony, but has everything needed to become one.

Not having to draw as much comb, and having brood that will be emerging soon (giving you more bees), nucs are weeks ahead of packages in development.

A package is a bunchof bees form different colonies all shaken into a box  with a queen added.
Often the bees are surplus bees after being used for pollination in California, adn have endured stress of being moved there and back, and have done a lot of work pollinating already.

One survey in (I think) Maine found something like half of the queens in packages there didn't survive their first three months.
Many people successfully use packages, but a lot of people experience failures with package purchases.
I don't like them...I don't like to gamble with time. If a colony doesn't establish well dur=e to queen or other issues, you can't get those weeks of spring flow back.

Interested in getting in contact with your friend, we're establishing a bee club in Elmira.


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## Beelosopher (Sep 6, 2012)

Just looked at Anarchy Apiaries site. Really think they look good so I sent an email.

Beregondo - thanks for the information. Sounds like a best case for me would be to get an overwintered nuc. I am the same as you, i am not getting into the hobbie to save money. I want to give myself a good change and need the bees to help!

I will check in with the friend from elmira and see if I can get you in touch. If you want please email me some contact information and I can forward along. 

Thank you!


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## ekrouse (Aug 26, 2004)

Beelosopher,

I sell nucs in your area (Manlius/Pompey/Fabius). I have never used chemicals in the hive since getting back into bees in 2001. Nucs are usually in medium frames since I standardized on that size. See my other posts on using all mediums. I buy hive bodies from Dadant, frames and covers from Walter Kelley Co, although I also have frames from Dadant. I use foundation in the brood chambers and natural comb (foundationless) in the supers. Queens are locally raised by me from Northern raised NWCarniolan stock and local survivor stock from structure removals. Nucs are available in early June due to our northern climate. You can pm me or email me at [email protected] Again, read my other posts about equipment... before you buy. Youmay also want to consider 8-frame.

ekrouse


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## IanH (Jan 30, 2012)

I'm also just finishing my first year with a 5-frame nuc that I got from George Jersey (Wild Mountain Apiaries) in Coldbrook northeast of Utica. The nuc filled out two deeps AND two medium supers, which are now filled (20 frames) with capped honey. I recommend George, who I understand produces about 400 nucs a year of Italian-Carniolan hybrid (if that's the right word). I spoke with another local Beek who also has had good experiences over 5 years with colonies from his nucs doing well.


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## Happy Honey Farm (Feb 14, 2010)

I live in Floyd NY Next to Rome we have a bee club at cornell coprative extention in Oriskany, we will be teaching a beginners beekeeping class after the first of the year we have members that can sell you nucs including myself. We have a meeting October 9th 7pm or you can contact me at 315-368-4732 if your interested


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## Beelosopher (Sep 6, 2012)

Thanks for the replies. I am still sorting it out. But ideally I would like to buy overwintered nucs that are treatment free with bees that have been building comb foundationless. I have been planning on going with 10 frame langstrom boxes, but still haven't bought anything yet. I plan on either building or buying over the winter. Right now since I only plan on a couple hives, it looks like buying may make more sense than building. Unless I happen upon some lumber.


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