# Anyone in Minnesota Using the TBH?



## nuke (Mar 12, 2008)

I'm not that close to you, but I do have a TBH. It is empty right now. The italians that were in it starved out last year too late to get a new package for it. I want to try some carnis or a mutt breed that is used to our winters in it and see how they do but that isn't probably going to happen this year either unless I shake my own package to install.


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## butterchurn2002 (Mar 29, 2010)

The last I checked Mann Lake still had some Italians. I don't know of any available from anyone else. I'm getting some Carni's this spring.


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## laurelmtnlover (May 29, 2009)

I believe there are some beekeepers from Minn using TBH on the forum
www.customwoodkitsinternational.com


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## beez2010 (Dec 9, 2009)

I'm in northern Michigan and can tell you that Warre TBHs are superior to Kenya TBHs for over-wintering bees. I would urge you to learn about Warre's and to try them instead of Kenya hives. It seems like I constantly read about winter losses in Kenya hives up north. I know that people will bark at me for saying this, but Kenya hives were and are designed for use in tropical climates. Good luck with whatever you decide!

Regards,

Chris Harvey--Teakwood Organics

www.thewarrestore.com


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## laurelmtnlover (May 29, 2009)

Chris,
I agree with you to a certain point. The warre' has a quilt box, but I love my TBH is thriving here in W. Pa, with our greatly fluctuating late winter and early spring temps. I simply put a bale of hay on top, to prevent condensation in the hive over the cluster. This also keeps it from being blown over by the wind. I'm only first year, so what do I know, but I do know I love it, and the bees do too.
Carrie


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## butterchurn2002 (Mar 29, 2010)

Chris,

I saw your website. I like it. How do you treat for mites in this type of hive? What about checking for foulbrood, etc and small hive beetles?

Ron


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## Sam-Smith (Jul 26, 2009)

I think the difference is only a question of ventilation profiles, the tbh is horizontal so it needs different ventilation and condensation management then warre or lang hives. I would like to add that the tbh wasn't "designed" for African use, it was adapted, I have seen bees occupy horizontal eaves and winter beautifully.


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## beez2010 (Dec 9, 2009)

Butter Churn,

Our modified warre and octagonal hives allow for all of the same manipulations as do Langs, so no difference with those as far as ability to inspect/treat, although I have not had to treat for varroa since I use 4.9 foundation and/or natural comb. (Please, no one start a debate here about that!) With standard warres (no frames), treatment is limited, although I understand that foulbrood (I have never seen it) can be smelled quite easily. We don't have small hive beetles here (at least I have never seen one of those, either), but I think that screened bottoms reduce the beetle's comfort zone, so that helps. I am also going to offer beetle traps that consist of a very similar floor assembly to what I have now but with 6 mesh, so the beetles fall through the floor into a shallow pan of mineral oil. 

Thanks for looking and commenting!

Chris Harvey

www.thewarrestore.com


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

We just had a very hard winter with a lot of losses. The horizontal hives were among those who survived. I see no difference in winter survival. According to Eva Crane the horizontal hive was through all of history and still is today the most common hive in every climate in the world. It may not be here in the US, but it is in Russia and the Nordic countries all the way to the Middle East and Africa. Horizontal hives are not now and never have been limited to tropical climates. Swienty sells a "chest" hive still:
http://www.swienty.com/shop/default.asp?catid=1096 to it's nordic customers...


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## Sam-Smith (Jul 26, 2009)

Lol thanks for the info Mr. Bush, I love the way you dig up horizontal hive trivia.


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## bsquad (Jan 18, 2011)

Butterchurn2002, did you end up trying a TBH? I'm hoping to start beekeeping TBH in the twin cities in the next few years, and was curious if you tried it.

bsquad


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

I can tell you it can be done. I'm 30 miles east of you. I overwintered a TBH in 2008/9. If you click on my profile, and then search my posts you'll see my experiences. I'm not running a TBH now, I have it in my shed, I don't regret running it. I learned some valuable things.
I am now working with regular Langs. My TBH allowed me to try bees on an economical basis. I doubt whether I would have been able to justify the expense if it hadn't been for TBH's, and Michael Bush's website. If you build it yourself use MB's design - it works. :thumbsup:


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## bsquad (Jan 18, 2011)

Adrian, 

Thanks for the response. I've been reading and re-reading the posts on wintering TBHs in the upper midwest, and haven't seen too much (I missed your 'staying alive' post somehow). I'm hoping to start beekeeping in a simple/frugal way and want to make sure that success is at least a possibility.


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## Bush_84 (Jan 9, 2011)

I'm planning on building two KTBHs this winter. If all goes according to plan I will be getting a nuc of carnies and eventually splitting to fill the second. I live in the Brainerd area. So I'm just going for it. Just wanted to let you know.


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## bsquad (Jan 18, 2011)

Glad to hear it, Bush 84. It'd be great to see pictures and/or hear updates along the way. Best of luck!! 

Do you know which plans you'll use?

bsquad


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

I think building two TBH's is a good idea. Without a spare box to put it in, a swarm is a big problem. 
One thing I can't emphasize enough is how level the hive has to be. "Near enough" is not good enough. It should be spot on, or the comb will not be perpendicular to the top bars and it becomes a pain to manipulate.


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## Bush_84 (Jan 9, 2011)

bsquad said:


> Glad to hear it, Bush 84. It'd be great to see pictures and/or hear updates along the way. Best of luck!!
> 
> Do you know which plans you'll use?
> 
> bsquad


I plan on using Chandler's plans. I've also watched the videos from Dave's Bees website. I plan on putting the entrance on the sloped side to one end. Holes to the same size as a wine cork. Not entirely sure what I am using for a top. I am getting all free oak from the guy I am building it with. He seems to think that we should go with a sloped roof. So I guess it depends on what he has around. 

I am going to get these hives for the cost of screws and a mesh bottom and a few bottles of home brewed mead!!


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## bsquad (Jan 18, 2011)

Adrian, Bush (and other TBHers in Minnesota or surrounding very cold areas) 

I'm specifically curious about the over-wintering ventilation that's worked for you in the past. I've read a bunch of times that you need lots of ventilation but not too much, which isnt terribly helpful for a beginner like me. Can you describe what you've done that worked? Closed bottom boards? Wrapping TBHs? Styrofoam above the top bars? How many and what size of entrances?

Thanks in advance -- really appreciate the responses!

bsquad


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## Bush_84 (Jan 9, 2011)

Well I cannot speak from experience as I don't even have my hives build yet. I am not sure how big of an issue moisture is in MN as our winters are already extremely dry. I guess as of now I am thinking about plugging up my circular entrance holes and leaving only one open. I plan on using plastic covered insulation to put between the top bars and the roof. I intend on wrapping the hive in some black material that I have not decided on yet. I also intend on building my hives to have a screened bottom, but maybe having a hinged bottom board, which would be shut in the winter. I am considering using some sort of snap down latch for closing. Something like this picture.

http://www.amazon.com/Stanley-801700-Bright-Brass-Chest/dp/B00004Z0V3

I have also read about people putting towels or blankets between the bottom board and the hive to ensure a wind tight seal. 

Again none of this is from experience, but just from what I have read. I am very interested to hear what people have tried that has worked.

Edit-Adjusting link


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

Bush, the condensation comes from the thousands of little bee breaths, and as a product of the bees eating the honey (honey is about 18% water). It is important to have a way to let the "steam" out. 
Bsquad, I've been unable to post photos here. I'm computer inept, and our family has apple computers. So whilst a picture paints a thousand words, all I have is words. I used Michael Bush's top entrance design, which is simply a gap between the first bar and the front of the hive. I had the lid over hang this to keep the weather out and then closed down the gap to about an inch over the winter. When the weather got above freezing I did have water dripping out of the bottom of the hive, but it didn't seem to cause a problem. They survived. The lid itself was a piece of styrofoam encased in scrap wood I had laying around. If you want to come look at it, and you have wheels, you're welcome to. Shoot me a PM.


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## tommyt (Aug 7, 2010)

*Adrian Quiney WI * 
If you want ? email those pictures to me, I'll be glad to Post for you

Tommyt


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

Tommy, I'll try and dig out some photos thanks for the offer.


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## bsquad (Jan 18, 2011)

Adrian,

After reading and re-reading your post, I think I can imagine how your TBH entrance works. Water dripping out of the bottom at times sounds a bit dubious, so if I were building hives right now I might try to incorporate an extra smallish ventilation hole or two in the bottom, but it's interesting to hear different options.

Best,
bsquad


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## Bush_84 (Jan 9, 2011)

For those who have done it already, what have you done to the bottom board for ventilation? Drilled a couple of small holes in two of the corners? I've read in Chandler's book about a quilt box of sorts over the top bars. Anybody try that?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>For those who have done it already, what have you done to the bottom board for ventilation? Drilled a couple of small holes in two of the corners? I've read in Chandler's book about a quilt box of sorts over the top bars. Anybody try that? 

I have two kinds of bottoms on my TBHs. Most are solid with no holes. Some are Screened with a tray under them. Anything on top for insulation will help with condensation. They don't need to be inside. Garbage bags of leaves will work. Scraps of styrofoam... etc.


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## Adam Foster Collins (Nov 4, 2009)

I've got peaked roofs on mine. For winter, they're filled with scraps of burlap and fiber glass insulation.

Adam


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## Bush_84 (Jan 9, 2011)

I've seen videos of people wrapping insulation in garbage bags and tossing them in the space between the top bars and the roof. Would wrapping it defeat the purpose?


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## bsquad (Jan 18, 2011)

No, the point of the insulation isnt to physically absorb the moisture. Condensation happens when warm/moist air touches a cold surface. The insulation is intended to keep the inner surfaces of the hive warmer, so that the humidity doesnt condense there.

bsquad


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## laurelmtnlover (May 29, 2009)

I use bales of hay on top of my hives, and each side for a windbreak. They are covered with plastic bags to keep them dry. Works very well for me.
I just got my dtr a hive; she lives in Mendota Hts, Mn. We are seeking some bees for her. Anyone?


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## Bush_84 (Jan 9, 2011)

What kind of lid do you have on your hives? Flat? 

Also...sorry I have no bees myself.


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