# Central NC sourwood: enough nectar for honey?



## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

Creed bee said:


> If it looks and tastes like sourwood do I label it as sourwood?


The crappy answer is - if it's Sourwood you should label it as sourwood honey. If it isn't, you shouldn't.

Now, how do you tell if it's Sourwood? If you know there is an abundance of sourwood trees in the area, the supers went on around the time the bloom started and the supers came off around the time the bloom stopped (to prevent "cross contamination"), and you reasonably believe the predominant nectar source during that time period was sourwood honey, then you should label it sourwood honey. 

Look, color, and taste help, but isn't the answer alone. Sourwood honey from different areas may taste slightly different.

If you can't reasonably say "yes" for all of the above, you shouldn't label it as sourwood honey unless you test the honey and it comes back as predominantly sourwood honey.

At least my take on it. Last year I got a decent Sourwood crop from the mountains, and I know several others that did as well. If you didn't get anything last year (sourwood wise) that might be an indication (but not a definitive) that what the bees are working aren't sourwood. Although the piedmont works different than the mountains (temp and moisture wise).


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## Creed bee (Sep 3, 2013)

Thank you special. Personally, I'm in favor of having it tested but the price is prohibitive. Beyond the labeling question though is my curiosity as to if sourwoods do produce enough nectar outside of the mountains to get a crop at all - albeit maybe once out of four years.

I see all these trees blooming, my bees working the flowers and have supers filling up (this year). I would love to have scientific testing done to back up my thoughts. Just hard to part with cash. What do I get with that info beyond answering my own question?

Still, I know I'm going to have many folks telling me there is no possible way to get sourwood honey outside of having hives in the mountains.

It will be interesting to see what this honey I collect in a couple of weeks tastes like. I'll keep you all posted.

Thank you for the input.


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

Creed bee said:


> I would love to have scientific testing done to back up my thoughts. Just hard to part with cash. What do I get with that info beyond answering my own question?


"Certified" sourwood honey often sells for more. I sell mine at $10 a lb. I know some that sell theirs at $15. One guy got his honey "certified" and sells it for $32 a lb. I think that's a little excessive, but you get the idea.


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## Creed bee (Sep 3, 2013)

Hey All,

Have a honey update for you. I extracted the supers I put on during the sourwood honey bloom. First, I noticed there were frames of both dark honey and very light honey in those supers (most of it was dark). I did not separate any of the different colored honey when I extracted. Got roughly six gallons from the two hives I set up with the empty frames during the bloom.

The taste of this honey clearly has a strong sourwood component or the flavor is very much like other 'sourwood' honey I have purchased and consumed. I have also tasted it against all the other honey I have collected this spring (my wildflower honey) and the two honeys are very different in flavor.

I feel fine putting a sourwood label on this honey but I'm not planning on charging any more than I would for my wildflower honey. I will not do that unless I do get the testing done (anybody have a recommendation here). 

Two other things. The 'sourwood' honey I have collected is much darker than what I normally see sold in the mountains of NC but the flavor is very similar; also there is this light and dark honey I collected from those supers. In retrospect I wish I would have extracted them separately. My thoughts are that the dark stuff (which represented roughly 70% of the honey in those supers was the sourwood and the light came from sweet clover. Next year if I get a crop I will definitely look at them individually.

I do now think that sourwood honey can be collected outside of the mountains in NC but it is much more unpredictable. You have to have strong hives, good rain, cool or not hot temps during the bloom (this is the big killer) and drawn comb. But I do believe it can be done.


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## Branman (Aug 20, 2003)

Sourwood honey should be very very light, as should the clover. The dark honey must be from something else entirely.


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

Creed bee said:


> I feel fine putting a sourwood label on this honey but I'm not planning on charging any more than I would for my wildflower honey.


I wouldn't if it's darker in color. 



Creed bee said:


> My thoughts are that the dark stuff (which represented roughly 70% of the honey in those supers was the sourwood and the light came from sweet clover.


Maybe, but I don't think so.

Sourwood mixed with other honey will still retain a good amount of that legendary taste. Odds are, 30% (or so) of your crop was sourwood. I suspect very little was sweet clover (unless you put them on a field of the stuff). The darker honey is something else.


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## Creed bee (Sep 3, 2013)

I cannot deny that you could be right Specialkayme. Next year, if I get a crop, I certainly will be separating and individually tasting the honeys. I'm already looking forward to doing that with the hope that I can begin to further narrow in on developing a sourwood honey here in central NC with a higher concentration of that nectar source.

Once again I would be happy to send in honey for testing. Has anyone done this? Could anyone recommend a service?


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## GaSteve (Apr 28, 2004)

If you took reasonable precautions to segregate the sourwood and it has the look and taste of traditional sourwood that people love, then I wouldn't hesitate to label it as sourwood and charge accordingly.

Dr. Paul Arnold at Young Harris College used to (and I assume still does) pollen analysis of honey samples at no charge. I would warn that I have heard that sourwood pollen is traditionally under-represented in pollen samples - i.e. if your honey is actually 75% sourwood, a pollen count might only show 40% sourwood pollen due to flower structure and other things.

As far as sourwood yield, I've had folks tell me that out of every 5 years, 1 will be a huge crop, 1 a complete bust, and the other 3 are mediocre.


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## e-spice (Sep 21, 2013)

In East Tennessee, it's easy. It doesn't matter what elevation you're at or even if sourwood is nowhere near you, if your honey is not super dark, it's definitely sourwood. 

All joking aside, I never market mine as sourwood because I know it isn't. There are some people selling sourwood, who in the best case scenario, are not knowledgeable about what sourwood honey is.


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## cervus (May 8, 2016)

Might as well label as you see fit. There is more "sourwood" honey bottled in NC than the available forage base could ever produce. It's the same as manuka honey, "New Zealand produces about 1,700 tons of manuka honey in a season, yet 10,000 tons are sold annually world-wide." We have plenty of sourwood here too, but every beekeeper I've spoken too affirms that it is not a predominant nectar source. I don't see what the problem is with labeling honey as just honey.


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## Creed bee (Sep 3, 2013)

Thank you all for the replies. I will be submitting the honey for pollen analysis and will let you all know how it shakes out. I certainly do not want to be misleading in my labeling. 

By flavor standards I feel pretty convinced that there is a large enough component of sourwood that it is easily distinguishable from my 'wildflower'. Folks that have got honey from thus far this year certainly have carried on about its flavor relative to my 'wildflower'.

It will be interesting to see what the pollen data says. One question here, if anyone knows the answer, if certain pollens types are known to be under or over represented do the folks who do the analysis have some formula that allows them to correct for that. If not what does evaluating the pollen do for you in regards to determining quantity of a certain nectar source?


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## jameskgraves (Feb 26, 2014)

*Re: Central NC sourwood: or tobaca*

i'm in lee county in the heart on north ,i put on extra supers for sour wood this year, the honey taste like SUFF ... how close are you to the golden leaf?


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## e-spice (Sep 21, 2013)

*Re: Central NC sourwood: or tobaca*



jameskgraves said:


> i'm in lee county in the heart on north ,i put on extra supers for sour wood this year, the honey taste like SUFF ... how close are you to the golden leaf?


What's SUFF?


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## jameskgraves (Feb 26, 2014)

*Re: Central NC sourwood: or tobaca*

auto spell is not my friend .... Snuff


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