# Swarm Size and Queens



## rsjohnson2u (Apr 23, 2012)

Is there a general rule of thumb relating the size of a swarm and predicting if its queen is mated or virgin? For example, I would guess a two pound and under swarm would be a virgin-containing after swarm, but don't have much experience with them. I've only captured two swarms, both under three pounds. Last year's had a virgin queen, this year's was caught on Sunday, and I don't want to disturb it yet. I have not gotten very good mating here in my suburban area the last several years.
Rob


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

I don't think there is a rule of thumb. 

From what I've seen, the first swarm will have the mated queen and be the biggest swarm from that hive. The after swarms will be smaller and smaller. 

Hives in a small enclosure will have smaller swarms. Where as I have some 4 deep hives some have two queens, when they throw a swarm it can be monstrous. There are a lot of factors that determine hive size, race, enclosures in the area, beekeepers... I think hive size will determine/limit swarm size. 

And there are late summer-fall swarms most have a mated queen, some can be as small as a base ball.


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## GaryG74 (Apr 9, 2014)

Spot on, FlowerPlanter. I sometimes wonder if those small, Fall swarms are supersedure swarms where the "old" queen leaves with a small contingent of bees. Most of my prime swarms are 3 pounds or larger, again like FlowerPlanter said, from established, large hives.


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## challenger (May 27, 2009)

Take the small ones and combine with another hive or a primary swarm. let the queens fight it out. A swarm, if it is still in swarm mode, will be full of honey and easily accepted into an existing hive.
Small swarms in my area will get this treatment from here out. It is too difficult to try and grow a small swarm into one that will winter over. It isn't impossible by any means and may still be a better option if one needs bees enough.


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