# Combining a hive without a queen



## BigMoe (Sep 27, 2020)

Hi

I have one of my two hives did a late season swarm at the end of August. The swarm wound up in a pine tree 25 feet off the ground and unaccessible for recovery. I found 2 open swarm cells on one frame that both look like they had queens emerge. I did an inspection but could not find a queen. Knowing that new queens are not so obvious I was not too worried when I could not find her. I gave the hive a week to sit and then inspected again to look for her and new eggs/larvae/brood. Nothing. I decided to pull a fame from the other hive with eggs and larvae and let the hive create another queen. The hive made 2 cells but again they hatched but no change. Could not find the queen nor were there any new eggs/larvae. I ordered 2 queens, introduced one at a time and they were both received well by the other bees but inspection a week later after each was introduced and no queen nor eggs/larvae was found. 

Now its the end of September and the hive has a good share of drone brood and is queenless. The hive has been experiencing heavy robbing and the honey stores are heavily impacted. Also I have noticed that there are what appear to be wax moth larvae on the bottom board among the wax cappings that were removed during the robbing. I have inspected every frame of the hive closely and cannot find any wax moth larvae damage or incursion anywhere so I am assuming its only on the bottom board. I did remove 2 drawn frames that were empty and put them in the freezer for a few days and moved them to the other hive for them to use.

I have done a mite wash twice on this hive. On one wash I had 1 mite. The second wash there were none. The washes were done in August and the middle of September. I deployed Apivar strips anyhow as a precaution in the beginning of September.

This hive is obviously not going to make it through the winter. My question is I wonder if it is safe to combine this hive with my other hive. The other hive is very strong but obviously my concern is introducing problems from the swarmed hive.There is not alot of space so I would have to add that box to the top of the other two mediums of the good hive. I only use medium boxes.

Looking for any advice anyone may have.

Thank You!!!

Bob


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## Murdock (Jun 16, 2013)

Let them bee for another week or two, don't open the hive and see if a queen is in there or out being mated. If no eggs/larva in two weeks combine them with newspaper separation. You can split them in the spring. It takes 30 days to have a queen larva fully mature and laying. During that time the hive should be left without any disturbance.


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## BigMoe (Sep 27, 2020)

Murdock said:


> Let them bee for another week or two, don't open the hive and see if a queen is in there or out being mated. If no eggs/larva in two weeks combine them with newspaper separation. You can split them in the spring. It takes 30 days to have a queen larva fully mature and laying. During that time the hive should be left without any disturbance.


Thanks for the reply. 

As of yesterday there still was no visible queen and no eggs or larvae to I combined the two. The 2 mated queens I introduced were marked and they are no where to be found. Not even a body. Its been 5 weeks since the swarm and the open queen cells were discovered so something went wrong somewhere. It was a very hot and dry summer here. I am sure that didn't help.

The hive has plenty of resources for the winter and I am ready to feed as required. Got my fingers crossed I can split them again in the spring and bounce back.

Thanks again for the reply.

Bob


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## Fivej (Apr 4, 2016)

Hi Bob. I may be misunderstanding,but did you add 2 mated queens into one hive? J


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## BigMoe (Sep 27, 2020)

Fivej said:


> Hi Bob. I may be misunderstanding,but did you add 2 mated queens into one hive? J


Yes. My timing is a little off but here is what I have done to date.

Hive swarmed around 2 week of August. 

I inspected the hive about 3 days later and found swarm cells on the bottom of 2 frames. One was chewed open. I did a search but came up with nothing. Knowing a new queen is hard to find I let the hive be. A week later I opened it again and noticed another swarm cell was chewed open and the third was still closed. The thrid cell never opened and there was no apparent effort to kill it off.

Around the first week of September I did another inspection and found no queen. This would have been almost 3 weeks after I foud the first open cell.

Second week of September I inspected again. Still nothing. It was at this point it was suggested to me to hurry and get a mated queen as it gets harder to save the hive later it gets.

I purchased 2 marked queens and introduced one. It was released after the cage was left on a frame for a few days and was well received. No aggressiveness was noted. Checked on her a few days later and nothing. Gone! I must have spent 40 minutes looking and no queen.

I installed the second the same way and again introduced her without issue. And again a few days later...Nothing.

So the hive are now combined and the bees are packed in 3 mediums. I treated all three frames starting in middle of September with Apivar strips because I am not harvesting honey this year and there were a bunch of drones in the swarmed hive as well as a bunch of drone brood which I eradicated.

Today I watched the hive for about 30 minutes and twice I saw the bees "escorting" or more like carrying away drones. Looks like the fall housecleaning is in progress.

Bob


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

If you haven't already, Maybe it would be helpful going forward to become a LI bee club member and attend a few of their meetings and meet some fellow members.


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