# How to exterminate bees in a hive without destroying the comb



## cmyates (Aug 8, 2010)

I inspected my hives today to check how much honey and pollen they have on board -- it's clear I need to feed them ahead of the winter. My hives are all very gentle except for one really aggressive one. It has caused me problems all year. I wanted to requeen it but I can't be in the hive long enough to find the queen, even when I'm wearing a full suit and gloves.

Today when I opened that hive the bees were all over me. At one point they were so thick on my veil I could hardly see through it. A few managed to get inside the veil and stung me on my neck, head and face. I had to walk away a couple of times and the bees followed me for a hundred feet. I finally closed up the hive and left them alone, without adding any feed. For hours after that they were aggitated and aggressive. I had people working on my property today and the bees were after them and stinging them though they were 200 - 300 feet from the hive. Any time I got within about 50 to 75 feet of the hive bees flew out to sting. This went on all afternoon. I have never had this happen before. I don't know what the genetics for these bees are -- they come from a nuc. The other nuc I got at the same time from the same yard is very gentle.

I think the only solution here is to kill the bees in this hive. I am trying to decide what to do. I went out a few minutes ago and the hives were quiet. I was hoping it would have gotten cooler tonight but it was still nearly 70 at 10:00. There were a few bees on the landing board but I managed to duct tape the hive closed. 

I need to decide how to exterminate these bees. I don't want to use a pesticide as I don't want to foul the comb. It is newly drawn this year and I'd like to put bees on it. I thought about wrapping the hive in black plastic and letting the heat do them in. A friend recommended that I spray a fire extinguisher through the screened bottom board but the hive consists of two deeps and one super so I don't think I can get at them all (and I'm not sure what the extinguisher would do to the foundation.) I could also get some ether and spray inside with it.

Does anybody have a suggestion?


----------



## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

If you were using the correct amount of smoke this must be a nasty hive. taking their air away is all I know.


----------



## pturley (Oct 4, 2010)

You could bag up the hive in plastic then toss in a small block of dry ice (1-2lbs should be more than enough). As the ice evaporates, the carbon dioxide would kill them.

Older texts would recommend sulfuring. That is, burning a small strip of sulfur impregnated paper under the hive, allowing the sulfur dioxide smoke to concentrate to levels sufficient to kill all of the bees and brood in the hive.

Neither would be likely to leave any harmful residuals in the hive or comb however it is my understanding that sulfuring can take quite some time to air out of the wax comb (rotten egg smell in the hive).

Sincerely,
Paul E. Turley


----------



## green2btree (Sep 9, 2010)

If you don't need the comb right away couldn't you wait until it is really cold (like in the teens or twenties cold) then take the top off and let them chill and freeze, then take it apart the rest of the way? Take a brush and remove the chilled bees from the comb? More experienced beeks, wouldn't this work?

JC


----------



## cmyates (Aug 8, 2010)

green2btree said:


> If you don't need the comb right away couldn't you wait until it is really cold (like in the teens or twenties cold) then take the top off and let them chill and freeze, then take it apart the rest of the way? Take a brush and remove the chilled bees from the comb? More experienced beeks, wouldn't this work?
> 
> JC


 We won't get a real freeze here (NJ) until late October or November so that's too long.


----------



## WWW (Feb 6, 2011)

cmyates, here is a good way of dealing with a vicious hive. http://youtu.be/DmmtjFgdqz8


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I think the only solution here is to kill the bees in this hive. 

You can requeen them:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesrequeeninghot.htm

I've been there and done that.


----------



## cmyates (Aug 8, 2010)

Michael Bush said:


> >I think the only solution here is to kill the bees in this hive.
> 
> You can requeen them:
> http://www.bushfarms.com/beesrequeeninghot.htm
> ...


Requeening was my first choice but I don't think I can be in the hive long enough to find the queen. I've been keeping bees for over 20 years and have never had a hive like this.


----------



## cmyates (Aug 8, 2010)

WWW said:


> cmyates, here is a good way of dealing with a vicious hive. http://youtu.be/DmmtjFgdqz8


Thank you. Great video.


----------



## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

On the video there was a comment that suggested using soapy water to kill the bees if the hives are close to people. They said soapy water does not contaminate the comb. They didn't mention anything about the honey but I would think that is protected by the capping.


----------



## franktrujillo (Jan 22, 2009)

where did you get the bees from?


----------



## Bradley_Bee (May 21, 2008)

If you had the equipment you could split it into as many splits as you could make and requeen all of them or just let them raise one.


----------



## jip (Apr 10, 2009)

I didn't see a reply regarding using smoke or not when going into the hive.
I have one aggressive hive but when using smoke they didn't bother me at all.


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Requeening was my first choice but I don't think I can be in the hive long enough to find the queen. I've been keeping bees for over 20 years and have never had a hive like this

I was in the same boat, which is why I wrote that page. If you split them down enough it becomes doable.


----------



## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

Splitting them down into workable size is a good answer to your problem. One thing you might try alternately is moving the colony to the far side of the line and letting the older aggressive field bees drift into the closer hives. Those older bees are the bulk of the aggressive types and the younger population left might be easier to go thru and might be calm enough with plenty of smoke, clean non alarm pheromone laced clothing and a gentle touch might win the day and let you find the queen. If you can't live in this best of all possible worlds or move them to the country, find a 55 gallon sized trash bag and in the dark of night, tent them in and throw in a half pound of dry ice and store the equipment in the morning. You could give the sealed brood which will probably still be viable to another colony but they will emerge to be mean bees too. Rough choices. Reality sucks!


----------



## kenr (Sep 25, 2005)

I have a hive like this what I did was put a reducer on the front so far it's solved my problems of being attacked just by walking into my yard.Instead of thousands of bees waiting in the entrance just have a few and there so busy checking out the incomming bees that as I've said so far they've giving me no more problems unless I open the hive then all bets are off.LOL!!!


----------



## fish_stix (May 17, 2009)

If you decide you have to kill them the drum liner bags from Home Depot work well; large enough to get completely around the hive. Personally I would try splitting them down and requeening but I can understand your feelings. Use duct tape with the bags and seal them completely, leave them overnight then remove the brood frames and freeze them to kill the brood. After a couple days in the freezer you can place them back on the bees and they'll clean it all up. Along with the bags you can use the dry ice mentioned above, it'll speed the process up. BTW, don't use the soapy water, you'll ruin any honey in the hive.


----------



## cmyates (Aug 8, 2010)

franktrujillo said:


> where did you get the bees from?


I bought three nucs this spring from an apiary in south Jersey. Two were as calm as my other hives. This one turned out to be really mean -- robust but mean.


----------



## cmyates (Aug 8, 2010)

jip said:


> I didn't see a reply regarding using smoke or not when going into the hive.
> I have one aggressive hive but when using smoke they didn't bother me at all.


Even with plenty of smoke.


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

green2btree said:


> couldn't you wait until it is really cold (like in the teens or twenties cold) then take the top off and let them chill and freeze, More experienced beeks, wouldn't this work?
> 
> JC


Not necassarily. I have seen hives knocked over, laying on the side, all winter w/ cover and bottomboard off, which survived winter well. It doesn't get cold enuf in NJ.

What about Resmethrin? Is that still made and used? It comes in a spray can and is/was labeled for the killing of bees. We used to use it when killing hives w/ AFB, before burning. So, maybe it wouldn't be good for the comb and honey.

If you can, take all the honey you can get away from them. It may take a few trips. Then, eventually they will starve to death. I guess gassing would bew more humane.

Close the hive up as tight as possible. Back your car up to the hive. Run a hose from the exhaust into the hive. That'll kill them. I don't know how it would effect the comb and honey.


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Bradley_Bee said:


> If you had the equipment you could split it into as many splits as you could make and requeen all of them or just let them raise one.


It's a little late to do this in NJ at this time. Though, maybe, the owner could just leave them alone until Spring. Maybe they will die over the winter.


----------



## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> Close the hive up as tight as possible. Back your car up to the hive. Run a hose from the exhaust into the hive. That'll kill them. I don't know how it would effect the comb and honey.


Mark if you want the exhaust to go into the hive you cannot close it up you have to let the air that is in the hive get out. Screening the entrance and running the hose through the inner cover would work just fine.

Don't get mad now I am just giving you some info. Take it or leave it.


----------



## franktrujillo (Jan 22, 2009)

get a nuc and a frame of eggs from a gentle hive replace the hive location with the nuc.all the old guard bees will be in nuc and they'll re-queen there self.wait a few hours get another nuc with a frame of eggs since they will send the next older bees out the guard bees replace hive location again now all older bees will all be removed.that will make the hive more manageable to find the queen in the mean hive.let all hives re-queen then you have three chances to get a mild hive after queens hatch you can find the one you want to keep then re-combine them...


----------



## pturley (Oct 4, 2010)

sqkcrk said:


> Close the hive up as tight as possible. Back your car up to the hive. Run a hose from the exhaust into the hive. That'll kill them. I don't know how it would effect the comb and honey.


All the various hydrocarbons from the exhaust would infiltrate the comb, rendering it useless at best, toxic or carcinogenic at worst!!! This is a VERY BAD IDEA!

Sincerely,
Paul E. Turley


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I thought so. But, I bet it works well if the combs aren't wanted. Maybe some ventilation would be needed. CO2 is used to put virgin queens to sleep.

So what about the Resmethrin? Anybody know? Too oldschool?


----------



## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

Take with a LARGE grain of salt, (I'm a newbie) but the dry ice (CO2) sounds safest to me. If you must kill them. The video at the start of this thread was excellent. And yes, I have experienced a hot hive. My first hive, that died out after the swarm, was hot enough that I couldn't cross the lot 20 ft away without being pursued and stung, WITH a smoker, not even going near the hive. After the swarm I had a suit, and they got mellower, but that was part of why I don't know how they died out or absconded. I was not enthusiastic about opening that hive.


----------



## brac (Sep 30, 2009)

franktrujillo said:


> get a nuc and a frame of eggs from a gentle hive replace the hive location with the nuc.all the old guard bees will be in nuc and they'll re-queen there self.wait a few hours get another nuc with a frame of eggs since they will send the next older bees out the guard bees replace hive location again now all older bees will all be removed.that will make the hive more manageable to find the queen in the mean hive.let all hives re-queen then you have three chances to get a mild hive after queens hatch you can find the one you want to keep then re-combine them...


What? anybody else get this?


----------



## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

I think so. Move the meanies while the foragers are gone. Put a nuc and a frame of eggs from a gentle hive in their place. 

Wait a few hours for them to come in, move that nuc, and put another nuc and frame of eggs in their place. 

Then find the queen in the mean hive. (you'll be dealing with fewer bees.) Squish her.

You end up with 3 hives that requeen themselves, 2 of which should be gentle, and the other one might be.?


----------



## libhart (Apr 22, 2010)

I'm in south central PA not too far from the OP and my hives are now kicking out their drones (saw a worker this afternoon dragging out a drone while stinging it). It's just tool late I think now for the OP to be able to raise a new queen that'll mate well, if at all. 
I too vote for a bag and dry ice if putting them down is the chosen option. Just remember two things. CO2 sinks, so dry ice goes on top. Also, the expansion ratio is 554:1, so a piece of dry ice that's a 6" x 6" x 1", which would weigh just shy of 2lbs, will expand to 11 cubic feet. That's not a ton, but that'll be added to the air you're already trapping in the bag when you seal it. Just make sure you don't have an explosing garbage bag in the middle of the night


----------



## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

You're not joking about that exploding bag either. I've got some stored in my freezer, and getting it stable involved a couple of exploding bags...


----------



## tommyt (Aug 7, 2010)

Get your shop vac and suck them up wrap the comb for next year
I make good money doing that but I lower the intake so I can keep the bee's:applause:
Can you get a next day aired queen I believe there are some in the for sale section

Good luck 
Tommyt

btw I get $300 a hive if you want me to do it :thumbsup:
I have an in with jet blue round trip $150....... so I maybe able to swing it LOL


----------



## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

libhart said:


> Just make sure you don't have an explosing garbage bag in the middle of the night


I will make a suggestion and you can take it or leave it.

If you seal the hive you seal in oxygen so the CO2 can only dilute it. If the hive is old beat up wood with holes and exposed cracks you may have to wrap the sides in plastic. If it is a good hive you shouldn't have to do any sealing except closing off the entrance. With the CO2 introduced from the bottom the hive will fill up like a water glass full strength. The oxygen will vent out the opening in the inner cover. "Remember to screen it over so the bees can't get out.

There may be a few remaining bees around the screen that you could suck into a shop vac.

You could use the shop vac as a container for the dry ice and use the hose to introduce the CO2 into the hive. Make sure the shop vac is sealed so you don't loose any of the CO2. If you have a SBB you will have to seal that up so the CO2 doesn't leak out the bottom. You probably should seal up a regular BB too.


----------



## scottddove (Nov 14, 2010)

just take them out a frame at a time shake them all off in the middle of the yard and take the comb away. The bees will find a new home and you dont have to kill them. Put on several layers of cloths and just do it, who knows you might not get stung.


----------



## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Will they behave or does it now make all the other hives in your apiary a hassle to work on?


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

scottddove said:


> just take them out a frame at a time shake them all off in the middle of the yard and take the comb away. The bees will find a new home and you dont have to kill them. Put on several layers of cloths and just do it, who knows you might not get stung.


Do this on the right day and you will have a cluster of bees gathered on your head, being the warmest and highest spot around.

I would not recommend doing this.

But, perhaps combining the aggressive colony w/ one less so would be a way to save the bees and brood. I'd want to kill the queen first and leave them queenless for a cpl days.


----------



## scottddove (Nov 14, 2010)

I didnt say do it and stand around and see what happens. Do it and go away as fast as you can. I do this same technique when I have a laying worker, it works just fine and you retain your bees you need for overwintering, bringing in nectar, ect. Why would you kill your bees you probably have money in.


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

scottddove said:


> I didnt say do it and stand around and see what happens. Do it and go away as fast as you can.


Well, yeah. I understand that and do the same thing w/ laying worker hives, but this is in the cool/cold North in the fall or late summer w/ a full size colony of mean bees. so I could easily see what I described happening. It happens when I take honey off in Oct. and I sort frames in the yard.

I agree. Why kill bees when you don't have to. Seems the OPer thinks he needs to, so we aught to answer his question first. Which I think we have. And then we can give opinions on alternative ways of handling the situation. Which I think we are. Some more practical than others. Not saying which ones. Obviously some of mine are less practical or safe. Brain storming.

cmyates,
it has been a cpl of days. Have u taken any action yet? Made any descisions?


----------



## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> It happens when I take honey off in Oct. and I sort frames in the yard.


Can I ask why it happens? We took our honey last Oct in the evening just before dark laid out the frames around the hive and an hour after dark the bees were all gone from the frames and then we brought them in. Why did that work for us?


----------



## rharlow (Mar 20, 2011)

In a laying worker hive, if I have already salvaged the honey and given to a nuc for overwintering, can I just let the hive expire on it's own in the cold weather? Any disadvantages? I'm figuring this way, all the drone brood will hatch and I'll have broodless comb to use in the spring. I'd prefer just leaving them, but if I'm setting myself up for a problem, then I'll shake. Thanks


----------

