# non embossed wax sheets ?



## Box (Jul 30, 2010)

I do crush and strain on my comb , this ofcourse give a lot of wax, that i could trade and get some other foundation from the store.
But my wax i absolutly free of any chemical and I want to keep it that way
so to use the extra wax I am planning to make sheets by the dipping method
and simply put them on the frames. thinking cheap and easy :applause:
Anybody tryed this? if so does it work? or does the bees just build on top of sheet not using the wax ?


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

You might be interested in reading some of this:

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214824&highlight=non-embossed

http://www.beesource.com/point-of-view/ed-dee-lusby/making-foundation-by-hand-2/


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## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

The bees will take your dipped or poured and rolled foundation. That is all there was over 150 years ago. I am sorry to tell you, but unless you have over 400 acres, your bees left your yard and are exposed to, and collect, chemicals from the neighbors. Without running your wax through a gas chromatograph, you are guessing to its content. We call that a WAG or SWAG and you do not want to be identified as the A.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

In my experience, they will draw comb without foundation quicker than with embossed and they will draw embossed quicker than they will draw blank sheets. In other words you will only slow them down...

http://bushfarms.com/beesfoundationless.htm


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## bigevilgrape (Aug 21, 2008)

At the north east treatment free beekeeping confrence there was talk about using plastic foundation to emboss your own home made foundation. The bees don't care that the pattern is inverted. I'm sorry I don't remember the details since my brain was a bit stuffed full at that point.


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## Box (Jul 30, 2010)

Thanks for the fast replyes its a pleasure to see
now i use a traditional danish hive design witch looks or can be described
as the longhives i have seen on mr. Bushs pages.
and when the bees take control and make comb where and how they like it,
well it takes forever to redoo 40 frames after the bees have made a "natural hive"
thats why i like the foundation to keep "kontrol" 
on the other hand i would like my bees to build what they need and at the cell size they wish, and over here there is´nt a hole lot of other sized foundation on the marked soo...
what if the flat sheets were "scratched" and therefore more "chewable" for the bees ?:s ,well summer is short and i dont wish to slow anything.
Plastic : yes it is a way to get the wax used - but then they should take the size we have desided on.:scratch:
Chemicals: yes i know what you mean , but what i ment was that I have not poured anything into the hive intentional maybe "absolutly" is the word i should be careful not to use


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## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

So the consensus is use your beeswax for something else and just feed sugar syrup so the bees will draw out comb fastest the way they want it! Fresh, white comb!


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## Box (Jul 30, 2010)

thats an option yes , and maybe candels can sell at higher prices too :thumbsup:


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## Duboisi (Oct 7, 2009)

Nice to see another Scandinavian.

Have you tried starter-strips or beveled top-bar?


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## Box (Jul 30, 2010)

likewise 
Yes have tried starterstrips ,but only on regular frames it works fine, but the 
vire is in my way when i cut out the comb, thats why i fasten the sheets with fishing line ,but then a starter strip would slide down, that system works great with the hole sheet, and just as fast to apply the sheet on the frame as with the regular wire.:applause:
besides all the above there is the honny vs comb story, one more reason to go this way , or i might just build warre hives and sell the wax:lpf:


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## Box (Jul 30, 2010)

Have been loking round on the forum and found this link 
http://mudsongs.org/natural-foundationless-comb/
with fishing line support and just tac my starter strip made from my wax :banana:


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## Duboisi (Oct 7, 2009)

If you don't do honey-extraction, you can probably do without the fishing-line.:scratch: AFAIK - It's main purpose is to strengthen the comb when it's being spun in the extractor.


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## Box (Jul 30, 2010)

I dont extract no , but the fishingline is layed double and pulled trough all the holes made for the wire and finish of with an drawing pin and a (halv stik) dont know the english word for that knot :no: this will thus hold a foundation sheet when you insert between the 2 strings and hold it if the bees dont attach it all the frame round , and i can just cut out queen cells and dont worry about if the cell is ontop of the wire and so on


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## Duboisi (Oct 7, 2009)

The knot "halvstikk" is called half-hitch in english.

My point was that if you go with foundationless(starter strips/beveled bar etc.), and don't plan on extracting the honey, you can skip the nylon-string alltogether.


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## Box (Jul 30, 2010)

the experiments are piling up for the next season already :thumbsup:
good thing im planning to expand my beeyard, or i would run out of hives to test on.
For the sake of argument : there are lots of different numbers on what it costs in honny to make 1 kg of wax, seen numbers up to 8 kg:scratch:
Now if you go completly foundationless and do drone cutout to control varroa, it is huge amount of honny just "thrown" away (know there are other uses for it)

Earlyer in this tread i got the advise to sugarfeed and get all the comb i wanted, cant see how i can do that, i would only end up with sirup with apple blossom aroma, when i extract my spring honny late may first in juli and the bees cant 
get working before the beginning of may anyway, so its a short season.

So i have to do some experiments


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>well it takes forever to redoo 40 frames after the bees have made a "natural hive"
thats why i like the foundation to keep "kontrol" 

Actually it takes about two hours to do a cutout of a wild hive and I seldom have had to do one.


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

I might try the small cell, 9 vertical, crimped wire foundation (with the hooks) and cut some into strips just wide enough to embed the first horizontal wire for a starter strip and let them draw that out. I can bend hooks in the rest of the strips. I bet they won't fall out. Possibly fairly strong, centrifuge-extractible, natural cell size comb that aids mite resistance...but only experience will tell.


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## Box (Jul 30, 2010)

Sounds like a great idea :thumbsup:
and i can not wait till this vinter ends so the bees and me can continiue our work, and yesterday nearly all the snow melted, snowdrop is peaking up under the bushes, spring is getting closer ,so it is a trying time now , have been reading about bees all thiese months and made a lot of materiels .:applause:
The newest thing i got to try is a "half frame" with a strip of wax ,no wire,
it has been used in decades im sure, but i am on tour backwards , with the goal to keep more bees, with less work and more joy, for me and the bees both.
keep it simple .......


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

Because you are not from America, I doubt very much that you understood the humor by America's Beekeeper in post #3 of this thread. I will spell it out for you - SWAG is a military acronym (abbreviation) for Scientific Wild-A**ed Guess. (The **'s are the 19th letter of the alphabet.)


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## Box (Jul 30, 2010)

Hæ Hæ 
no did´nt get it , had to google after 
but I think it covers a lot in beekeeping


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