# Illinois



## Jackam (Jun 3, 2013)

AR1 said:


> Getting anxious to put out bait hives in hopes of catching some swarms. Anyone with experience in this area tell me when the swarms usually start? I am assuming end of April, but don't really know.


http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?321092-Illinois


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

Jackam said:


> http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?321092-Illinois


Saw that, but most of the replies are from a lot farther south than I am. It's a six-hour drive on a good highway from where I am to Southern IL.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

AR1
Unless you are worried about wear and tear on your traps, It does not hurt to put them out early. You can catch nothing if they are not out and it does take some time to place them. I put mine out proby two months early (lot I leave out all year).

Last year my first swarm was may 6 and I had my traps out march 1st. If they are out, then I can not get side tracked with other things and forget to get them out.

Just thought I would throw that out.
Cheers 
gww


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## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

I too like to get them out early. Although I have never caught a swarm earlier than the first week of May. I always put them out early to mid April!


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

Sounds like a good idea. I'll try to get it done end of this week then, when I have a few days off.

Illinois beeks might find this page useful, or at least interesting. The Illinois State Climatologist runs a blog with some good info. I take any long range forecast with a grain of salt, but the far south of Illinois is predicted to have drought this summer. April-June sounds nice though.

https://climateillinois.wordpress.com/


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## Eikel (Mar 12, 2014)

The drought maybe coming to southern IL but not this week. The false spring has the hives brooding up, things are now starting to bloom and the mud made things tough for getting to a couple swarm trap locations. It's the earliest I've hung traps but I'm thinking swarm season is going to take off once the rains stop. Dang bees just will not read what the book says.


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## EssexStadir (Nov 16, 2016)

Yes, that warm weather also got me moving this last week.
It got up to 80° last Wednesday and I figured it was time to remove the wrap and mouse guard. Several days after that I reversed the boxes and installed a mason jar feeder. 
No dandelions, but I'm seeing other flowers starting to bloom and I didn't want to wait to reverse the boxes and risk tearing open some drone brood.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

Got 3 people from work to take swarm boxes. One wants me to get rid of the bees in his house. 
It's funny. I have never heard much about bees in walls until last year when I started keeping, and now people are telling all about their 'Home' beehives. Two this week, just in my little group at work.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

Put up 7 swarm traps on dad's farm today. That's where I keep my one surviving hive. Cracked it open for a minute to see live bees, too cold for flying apparently, about 46 degrees and overcast. Still predicting night weather down in the lower 30s for the next few days, and still no dandelions!
One swarm trap is an actual 10-deep, placed near my hive. One is wood, made of old barn boards with a frame of old brood comb. That one is sitting on top of an old combine at the edge of the woods. The others are experimental. I took a bunch of old 5-gallon buckets and cut slots at the bottoms for entrances, tossed in a bit of old comb and a few drops of lemon grass oil, and hung them by the handles. I put discs of cardboard under the lids to give the bees something other than plastic to work on. We'll see how that works! Those buckets are scattered around the farm buildings and in fencerow trees and the edge of the woods from deer stands.

I also put one in my own back yard, nestled among the peach trees where hopefully the neighbors can't see it. They were cool about the bees last year when I had the bees in a more open spot, but why risk it. The trees will block line of sight and keep the bees calm too.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

Forsythia is blooming now, and a few wild plums. Dandelions everywhere. 

I spent about half an hour this morning just sitting next to my hive and watching the bees in the warm sun. Numbers are still low, but appear to be increasing, or maybe it is just the warmer weather making it look like there are more bees. They were hauling in big baskets full of some bright orange pollen, which I was glad to see. They have plenty of left over honey, but will need pollen to make babies.

They were not defensive to me, but it was funny to watch them head-butting a big fly that was hanging out at the lower entrance for the whole time I was there. A giant black ant went in and came back out a few minutes later. I smashed it.

Time to get a bunch more swarm traps out. Several people have volunteered to put them up at their homes, so I need to get them distributed.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

SO much is blooming it's hard to keep track, plums and peaches are in full bloom, apples look ready to start, and some crabs are already going. My back yard is a carpet of dandelions and violets. Lilacs are even getting ready to pop open, smelling sweet already.
I opened my hive yesterday even and found the queen for the first time, a light tan colored girl with no stripes. That surprised me since last fall and this spring most of the bees were dark, almost no yellow striping. Now I am getting some yellow striped bees too. It is way early to have superceeded queens, I would have thought, but this is only my second year, so who knows. She has started laying, and there is some capped brood, but not much yet. I hope she picks up her game!
I spent the last week making new deeps and telescoping covers. No need for them all yet, so I plan to put them out for traps. So far three people at work have taken traps home, and a couple more have offered to take one each. One enthusiastic guy took two.
My niece lost her bees over winter, so she is gifting me with one of her top-bar hives, full of comb. So that will make a nice trap in my back yard too. I advised her to keep her other two at her house, and put a few drops of lemon grass oil in them on Easter for her, so maybe with luck she can get a few bees the easy way. If not, I'll hopefully have a split I can give her.


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## EssexStadir (Nov 16, 2016)

Things are starting to look good, indeed. There's lots of blooming going on and my bees are loving it. I was very worried for a while and still am but things are looking better. This weather is certainly helping too.
I'm just going to be hands off for a while and let them do what they do best.


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## cpekarek (Jan 5, 2017)

I'm 25 miles west of Chicago. Two of my 4 hives made it through winter and are booming. I began feeding a month ago with pollen paddies and a very little 1:1. I opened one of the hives this morning. Both 10 frame deep brood boxes were full of various stages of larvae and capped brood. There was very little room for the queen to lay so I took 8 frames of eggs/larvae and capped brood and created 2 splits. I don't have a second location to move the splits to so I will have to add more bees if the splits start to weaken. Plenty of drones just hatching out. Several unfinished queen cups. I have 2 supers on both my strong 2nd year hives. Pollen and nectar are coming in fast. I will open the second strong box tomorrow and see if it needs to be split. I also installed 2 new packages from Georgia April 7th. Both packages are doing very well. I started them on drawn comb. The weather seems to be 2 to 3 weeks ahead of normal.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

cpekarek said:


> I'm 25 miles west of Chicago. Two of my 4 hives made it through winter and are booming. I began feeding a month ago with pollen paddies and a very little 1:1. I opened one of the hives this morning. Both 10 frame deep brood boxes were full of various stages of larvae and capped brood. There was very little room for the queen to lay so I took 8 frames of eggs/larvae and capped brood and created 2 splits. I don't have a second location to move the splits to so I will have to add more bees if the splits start to weaken. Plenty of drones just hatching out. Several unfinished queen cups. I have 2 supers on both my strong 2nd year hives. Pollen and nectar are coming in fast. I will open the second strong box tomorrow and see if it needs to be split. I also installed 2 new packages from Georgia April 7th. Both packages are doing very well. I started them on drawn comb. The weather seems to be 2 to 3 weeks ahead of normal.


Wow, about a half-hour due east of me, and yet so much farther along. My hive has load of honey left over, so they certainly were not starved. Maybe I should have given some patty.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

I am happy for the wet, cooler weather the last few days. My bees are starting slow, but they do have capped brood. I figure a few days of low outside activity may give them time they need to catch up. With the honey stores they have and the small force of bees I worry about robbing.

I opened up the top a few days ago to a big surprise. A colony of gigantic black ants was under the top and on the inner cover. I shook them off onto the concrete and stomped all I could find, but a few had returned when I checked them later. I never found one actually in the hive...the bees did not seem particularly defensive, so maybe they were not molesting them. I opened the hive and looked at brood and the queen without even smoking, and they were perfectly pacific.


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## bjorn (Aug 7, 2013)

I am in Roscoe, just 15 minutes from you. 4 of 4 made it thru winter and I just uncovered them last week. 2 were swarms from last year that were given to me on May 21 and 23. I suspect we are a bit ahead of schedule due to the warm winter.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

bjorn said:


> I am in Roscoe, just 15 minutes from you. 4 of 4 made it thru winter and I just uncovered them last week. 2 were swarms from last year that were given to me on May 21 and 23. I suspect we are a bit ahead of schedule due to the warm winter.


Hi Bjorn. Roscoe, huh? Not far at all. A guy at work keeps 150 hives in Wisconsin, does the Cali almond trip every spring. 

I am now wondering if we will have early swarms or not. The whole next week is predicted to be rainy and cold. Not sure if that will slow them down or speed them up. If they are all staying indoors and watching TV for the next week, they may feel like moving out of mom's basement sooner and take off for the woods! I suppose it depends on whether they packed enough pollen away the last few weeks to feed brood. I only saw one bee outside the hive today, and it was just walking around.

Squashed a few more giant black ants on the inner cover. Just stragglers, I hope. I think I got the queen ant last week, since they don't seem to be reproducing, but I'm going to check every few days until they are all gone.


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## NorthernIllinoisPlumber (Aug 17, 2010)

Hello, I am in Lake Villa and just moved to a new yard. Put my bees in Easter Sunday. Seem to be well.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

NorthernIllinoisPlumber said:


> Hello, I am in Lake Villa and just moved to a new yard. Put my bees in Easter Sunday. Seem to be well.


Seems like an appropriate day. New life!
Lake Villa. Straight north of Chi? Pretty populated area, I'd think. Any neighbor push-back?


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

Endless cold and rain. Down into the high 30s most every night, and the days in the 40s or low 50s at best. Weather report gives a little hope for sun on Friday. A lot of good flow getting missed right now.


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## g2knee (Nov 13, 2014)

I'm in your area, just a bit closer to Chicago. The rain has been brutal. I'm getting my first ever bees on the 14th/15th. Do you think the flow will still be as strong in a couple weeks?

Also, what is the timing of the "dearth" in your area? I don't know a lot of local beekeepers, so just wondering what to expect. Thanks!


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## cpekarek (Jan 5, 2017)

Hi g2knee

I have my hives in Glen Ellyn and live in Carol Stream near Khun and Thunderbird. I have only been keeping bees for a year but if there is anything I can help you with, let me know.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

g2knee said:


> I'm in your area, just a bit closer to Chicago. The rain has been brutal. I'm getting my first ever bees on the 14th/15th. Do you think the flow will still be as strong in a couple weeks?
> 
> Also, what is the timing of the "dearth" in your area? I don't know a lot of local beekeepers, so just wondering what to expect. Thanks!


Sorry, total newbi here myself. Last year was my first, and there never really seemed to be a dearth at all, as far as I could tell.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

Supposed to be a hard frost tonight. Cover your sensitive plants!


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## cpekarek (Jan 5, 2017)

With all the cold weather and rain we have had the past 5 days, the bees didn't have a chance to sleep in. My 2 strongest hives started work early today when the temperature was only 43°.


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## Bobcatcharlie (Nov 1, 2015)

I have a feeling any strong hives around here will be starting swarm preps after having a strong warm April and now a week of being cooped up I will have to try to get my traps hung this week


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

Bobcatcharlie said:


> I have a feeling any strong hives around here will be starting swarm preps after having a strong warm April and now a week of being cooped up I will have to try to get my traps hung this week


I'm hoping. Got a guy at work that wants a couple of traps for his back yard. I'll have to whip up a few more.

Checked my bees today. Ants are ALL GONE. Patches of brood slowly expanding. I am thinking they can't expand the brood more because there just are not enough nurse bees to cover any more. Hoping it will snowball.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

Bobcatcharlie said:


> I have a feeling any strong hives around here will be starting swarm preps after having a strong warm April and now a week of being cooped up I will have to try to get my traps hung this week


I'm hoping. Got a guy at work that wants a couple of traps for his back yard. I'll have to whip up a few more.

Checked my bees today. Ants are ALL GONE. Patches of brood slowly expanding. I am thinking they can't expand the brood more because there just are not enough nurse bees to cover any more. Hoping it will snowball.


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## cpekarek (Jan 5, 2017)

The flow seems to be slowing starting after weeks of cold and rain. My hive scales indicate approximately 2 lbs of weight gain each day since May 8th. The forecast for the next week looks good for things to start in earnest.

I had an interesting day. I work at a golf course and that's where my hives are located. As I was driving up to my office around noon, I saw a cloud of bees swirling around. I have never seen a swarm but I figured that was what I was seeing. I came upon them right before they picked a spot to rest. After about 10 minutes they started to settle into a dense 6' high bush right outside my office. It took another 15 minutes and they were in 3 loose clumps on the bush. I quickly grabbed a 5 frame deep box I had built for a future nuc, put in a drawn frame and a frame of open brood I took from another hive and filled it out with 3 frames of blank foundation. I cut the branches with bees off the shrub and shook them into the box and closed it up. There were still a few thousand bees swirling around the bush but I had to attend a meeting offsite so I left the box sitting on he ground near the bush. I came back 3 hours later and the bees seem to be working the box like any normal hive. 

I feel like I was really lucky to be able to capture the swarm so easily. I had to go out of town for 3 days and didn't have time to move the box. Hopefully the bees will still be there when I return. I will need to open the hive I suspect the swarm came from and see what is the status.


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## g2knee (Nov 13, 2014)

cpekarek said:


> The forecast for the next week looks good for things to start in earnest.


Just it time for my first package to be picked up this weekend! Things are looking up.

Nice job on the swarm. Right place, right time I'd say.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

Wow. That's great. Happy to hear that swarms are starting this far north. 

I have a dozen traps out here and there, and 2 more ready to go. Plan on making a few more for this season. Never tried trapping before so no idea how it will go. Using lemongrass oil. Which by the way my wife and daughter have decided they like to mix with shea butter to make hand cream with.

I noticed my neighbor a few houses away has replaced his two-deep hive, which I think died overwinter, with 5 medium supers. I can see lots of bees from the street around this new hive. Am I a bad person for hoping he doesn't manage it well and they swarm over to my back yard empty hives?

I am surprised at how enthusiastic people are to accept my bait hives. People seem really excited, even though they don't want bees themselves.


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## bjorn (Aug 7, 2013)

The organic farm down the road called me yesterday... their hive swarmed. You should start seeing them.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

My hive overwintered in two deeps and one super, and this spring the queen is up top laying in the super, with the two deeps empty below. Yesterday I moved the super to the bottom and took away one of the deeps, to give them less space to defend. Numbers are slowly increasing, very slowly! I would have just left them be, but I found another small ant colony right in one of the deeps, so I brushed them out and took the deep away.
Still have not seen or heard of any swarms, and the traps are empty.


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## cpekarek (Jan 5, 2017)

I had a swarm on May 11th 25 miles west of Chicago. I saw the swarm and was able to get it into a box as it formed. I have 4 traps on the 240 acre property but there hasn't been any activity around any of the traps.


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## AmericanApiaries (Jan 27, 2017)

I have a yard in Lake Barrington. We went through Sunday and 3 colonies had swarm cells. One swarmed while we were working, but we got them to go back into the hive.


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## cpekarek (Jan 5, 2017)

g2knee, How did your package install go? The flow has started but you may want to feed your new hive if you are starting with un-drawn frames.


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## g2knee (Nov 13, 2014)

cpekarek said:


> g2knee, How did your package install go? The flow has started but you may want to feed your new hive if you are starting with un-drawn frames.


Install went great! The guy I got bees from here in Wheaton had a mentoring workshop the week before -- and he advised to feed while the colony builds up strength, so that's what I've been doing. With the warm weather, there has been plenty of activity at the entrance. I even spotted some bees bringing in pollen this morning! Exciting stuff for a first-timer. 

In a couple hours I'll open up the hive for the first time ever and make sure the queen is out, and that they are building comb straight. I am indeed starting from scratch, and only one hive taboot. I have a good feeling about these ladies though. I'll check in again after inspection.


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## g2knee (Nov 13, 2014)

First inspection -- the bees had eaten through the candy plug and the queen was not in her cage.
Bees seemed to tolerate me poking around nice and slow, though one did sting my glove when I was brushing them off the queen cage.

They have built comb on only one frame so far, but it was a decent chunk (maybe 8 inches wide by 7 inches tall). It's build _perfectly_ straight, which is a relief since I'm doing foundationless. (I can't help it, I have a hair-brained hippy gene somewhere)  They are festooning all over the adjacent frames, so I'm sure they'll get building more in short order.

I only saw the glisten of nectar or syrup in the cells that I could see. No eggs that I could tell, and I didn't see the queen on the built comb (she's marked, so I think I'd spot her). The bees are bringing in pollen, but I'm not sure where they are putting it. 

They aren't taking much syrup. They drank maybe a quart since I've had them.

Questions for anyone:
1. It's only day 3...should I be seeing eggs or larva already? Is it ok I didn't see the queen on the completed comb?
2. I assume it's OK they aren't drinking much syrup, because they're alive, but shouldn't they be guzzling it down?
3. Any idea what they do with the pollen if not storing it? Its possible they JUST starting bringing it since the hive is so young
4. Should I check for evidence of a queen this weekend? Or is everything going well enough to leave them alone for a week?


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## g2knee (Nov 13, 2014)

g2knee said:


> Questions for anyone:
> 1. It's only day 3...should I be seeing eggs or larva already? Is it ok I didn't see the queen on the completed comb?
> 2. I assume it's OK they aren't drinking much syrup, because they're alive, but shouldn't they be guzzling it down?
> 3. Any idea what they do with the pollen if not storing it? Its possible they JUST starting bringing it since the hive is so young
> 4. Should I check for evidence of a queen this weekend? Or is everything going well enough to leave them alone for a week?


Answering some of my own questions based on obsessive googling and research. 

1. It's pretty early to say, the queen may have _just_ been released. Nothing to worry about yet.
2. If a flow is on (and it is) they may well be gathering enough nectar for themselves -- even for a newly hived package.
3. I know what they do with pollen in general, but I have no idea what they are_ currently_ doing with it if not storing or feeding it to young...
4. Either way, no biggie. Since they are building comb straight, I think I will leave them alone for a week (if I can resist the urge to check them out) and let them settle in without disturbance.


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## g2knee (Nov 13, 2014)

Bee doing well -- lots bringing in pollen. I expect to see plenty of capped brood tomorrow when I inspect.

How's ya'lls? Is the flow still strong in our area?


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

g2knee said:


> Bee doing well -- lots bringing in pollen. I expect to see plenty of capped brood tomorrow when I inspect.
> 
> How's ya'lls? Is the flow still strong in our area?


It has been so cool and rainy that hardly any bees are ever out foraging. There seem to be plenty of flowering trees and shrubs, so if it ever turns warm they should be Okay. Today and tomorrow at least are supposed to have some sun and 70s.

I may get up and round on my traps today.


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## cpekarek (Jan 5, 2017)

The weight of my hives was steady from May 19-24th. A 2nd year hive gained 3 lbs yesterday and 3 lbs today. A 1st year package hive has been the same weight for the last 7 days. Even when the rain has stopped, a lot of the nectar has been washed off or diluted from all the rain we have been having. There is plenty of moisture in the soil and it looks like it won't get very hot for quite awhile so we should have a good flow once the rains end.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

Not happy. My hive is just sitting there. There seem to be no more bees than there were back in March. There is a queen, and she is laying, or at least she was two weeks ago when I checked for her and brood. But no increase. They are not hungry, they have plenty of capped honey. They are just staying a very small hive. Last year they went gangbusters, very busy, active, high population. Now just pitiful.
No signs of disease, wings all look fine. No signs of mites, and I have looked very carefully at practically every individual bee in the hive.
One thing that interests me. Last year they were very defensive. If I just walked near the hive they would be buzzing all around me. Now I can open the hive, pull frames, spend minutes looking at the bees and no signs at all of defensiveness. No smoke, no veil needed. I suspect they requeened early in the spring, and the new queen didn't get a lot of mates. But no sign of excess drone production either.


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## Bobcatcharlie (Nov 1, 2015)

How many frames of brood are there currently should have at least 8 if not 12 assuming it's in a double deep if not requeen


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## g2knee (Nov 13, 2014)

AR1 said:


> I suspect they requeened early in the spring, and the new queen didn't get a lot of mates. But no sign of excess drone production either.


Maybe she's just a poor layer? How is the brood pattern?


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## cpekarek (Jan 5, 2017)

When was your last inspection and when was the last time you saw brood and eggs? Do you think your hive swarmed? If that's the case you won't see an increase for at least 5 weeks from the date of the swarm. I had my strongest overwintered hive swarm on May 11th and looking at the hive entrance, there isn't a lot of activity compared to my other hives. I'm going to look in the hive in a week and hope to discover a good laying queen.


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## bjorn (Aug 7, 2013)

I split my overwintered hives on May 11. Took the old queen and 1/2 the population to new bottom board. Original hive made some nice queen cells afterward. Should have hatched last friday or so. Will check in another week for brood. We've had a couple of mating worthy days between all the rain.


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## cpekarek (Jan 5, 2017)

The nectar flow is very strong in my area. One of my second year hives has gained 20 lbs in the past 7 days. Earlier this spring, I took 3 frames of honey and 3 frames of brood with eggs from the hive to start 3 new hives. This hive didn't swarm and has recovered well from the frames I removed.

One of my other hives which was started with a package in mid April is also doing well. It has gained 14 lbs of weight in the past 7 days. The package was put in a hive with 3 frames of drawn comb and 3 frames with plastic foundation.


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## g2knee (Nov 13, 2014)

Cpekarek, I love your updates. Since I don't have a scale on my hive, it's good to know with precision how things are proceeding in the west 'burbs.

I can corroborate your findings-- my new hive (mid-May package) had no capped honey last week. This week, there is plentiful capped honey above all the central brood frames. It's a busy time for sure. Plenty of honey bees spotted working the clover in my back yard as well.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

cpekarek said:


> When was your last inspection and when was the last time you saw brood and eggs? Do you think your hive swarmed? If that's the case you won't see an increase for at least 5 weeks from the date of the swarm. I had my strongest overwintered hive swarm on May 11th and looking at the hive entrance, there isn't a lot of activity compared to my other hives. I'm going to look in the hive in a week and hope to discover a good laying queen.


I looked through the whole hive yesterday. Sadly, the only change is it looks weaker. I found the queen, and there is brood in various stages, but very little, about palm-sized areas on two facing frames, and a spotty pattern. One clue I found is a number of unemerged but adult or nearly adult appearing dead bees. They are completely dry, not goopy at all. Apparently survived right up to emerging but died just before.
The queen and the live bees appear active and healthy, scurrying around normally. No weird wings or deformed bodies. No shortage of food, both honey and pollen.


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## cpekarek (Jan 5, 2017)

AR1, sorry to hear about your declining hive.

An update on the nectar flow in my area 25 miles west of Chicago. A week ago my overwintered hive was gaining 3 lbs per day. It has slowed the past 4 days and is gaining about 1/2 lb per day. My new package hive was gaining 2 lbs per day last week. It is now gaining 3/4 lbs per day.
All my hives seem to be bringing in more pollen than nectar the past couple of days.


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## g2knee (Nov 13, 2014)

cpekarek said:


> It has slowed the past 4 days and is gaining about 1/2 lb per day. My new package hive was gaining 2 lbs per day last week. It is now gaining 3/4 lbs per day.


That is quite a decrease. Do you think it's due to foraging plants no longer blooming, or the weather and lack of rain the past couple weeks?


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## cpekarek (Jan 5, 2017)

I think it is just the normal ebb and flow of nectar and pollen availability that happens during the season. I agree that the dry weather the past 10 days is probably a factor. Last season, the nectar came in the fastest when the Linden trees were flowering. They should begin flowering in the next 7 to 10 days.


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## bjorn (Aug 7, 2013)

My swarm prevention splits seem to be doing well. 2 of 3 have queens laying nice brood patterns. The 3rd looks to be about a week behind, as I only see eggs at this point. I have added a 3rd medium hive body to each of the mother hives, which they have filled with honey. I've since added 2 supers to 1 and 1 super to the other. These are about half full, that's an estimation since I don't have a scale.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

bjorn said:


> My swarm prevention splits seem to be doing well. 2 of 3 have queens laying nice brood patterns. The 3rd looks to be about a week behind, as I only see eggs at this point. I have added a 3rd medium hive body to each of the mother hives, which they have filled with honey. I've since added 2 supers to 1 and 1 super to the other. These are about half full, that's an estimation since I don't have a scale.


Any thoughts of selling a split? I'd be interested.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

Got a request from a guy who lives near me for a nuc. I have no bees to spare. Is there anyone in N Illinois who sells bees? He says he cannot travel far, and lives south of Rockford.


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## bjorn (Aug 7, 2013)

I am not looking to sell any myself. There was a guy in south rockford selling nucs on craigslist last week... not sure if his ad is still up.


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## bjorn (Aug 7, 2013)

https://rockford.craigslist.org/grd/6164775762.html


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

bjorn said:


> https://rockford.craigslist.org/grd/6164775762.html


Thanks. I'll check it out.


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## cpekarek (Jan 5, 2017)

It's been a while since so here's an update from my hives. The 2 hives that have scales showed a slowdown in weight gain from about June 15th through June 21st. Each hive gained 5 lbs over the 6 day period. We were in a mini-drought during that time. Since then there has been quite a bit of rain and the hives have gained 8 lbs in the past 3 days. The overall weight gain this year has been 45 lbs for both hives that have scales. One of the hives was a new package started April 7th. The other hive was an 2nd year hive that I split to start 3 new hives on April 18th. 

Some of the varieties of Linden/Basswood trees are still in bloom. Common milkweed is starting to be worked and should continue for another month or so. I think most of the bees are collecting the majority of nectar from clover currently.

I'm glad I split one of my 2nd year hives. It is doing so much better than my other 2nd year hive which swarmed on My 11th and remains way behind the split hive.


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## Planner (Apr 3, 2016)

If a 19 frame super weighs about 30 pounds and you are gaining 2 pounds per day it should take about 2 weeks to fill a super. How many supers do you have on or are you talking about broood boxes? Also did your frames have existing comb or just foundation?


cpekarek said:


> It's been a while since so here's an update from my hives. The 2 hives that have scales showed a slowdown in weight gain from about June 15th through June 21st. Each hive gained 5 lbs over the 6 day period. We were in a mini-drought during that time. Since then there has been quite a bit of rain and the hives have gained 8 lbs in the past 3 days. The overall weight gain this year has been 45 lbs for both hives that have scales. One of the hives was a new package started April 7th. The other hive was an 2nd year hive that I split to start 3 new hives on April 18th.
> 
> Some of the varieties of Linden/Basswood trees are still in bloom. Common milkweed is starting to be worked and should continue for another month or so. I think most of the bees are collecting the majority of nectar from clover currently.
> 
> I'm glad I split one of my 2nd year hives. It is doing so much better than my other 2nd year hive which swarmed on My 11th and remains way behind the split hive.


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## cpekarek (Jan 5, 2017)

I have scales under a 2nd year hive that has (2) 10 frame deep brood boxes and (3) 10 frame medium supers. The total hive weight is currently 165 lbs. 
The other hive with a scale is a new package started April 7th. It has (2) 10 frame deep brood boxes and (2) 10 frame medium supers. That hive weighs 147 lbs.

I use plastic starter foundation in the brood frames and no foundation in the super frames. I don't know the weight of individual hive components but I do know when I add a medium super with undrawn frames it adds 10 lbs.






This is a screenshot of the 2nd year hive weight. The weight fluctuates all the time as bees leave to forage, nectar and pollen is brought in and nectar is evaporated at night, etc.


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## Planner (Apr 3, 2016)

I find your data very interesting and it appears your hives regardless of configuration can gain about 1-2 # per day. That seems reasonable based on my experience. Over a period of 3 weeks or 20 days my 10 frame supers may be filled pending the ongoing flow and weather. I use 9 frames in a Illinois super and estimate a filled super is about 30# of honey. The weight varies substantially as I have some hives fillling the second super and other just beginning on the first super.please keep up,your reporting.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

I may have bees!
I put out a dozen swarm traps back in March, and so far no activity. Until tonight when a friend emailed me the news that two of them had bees! She owns about 20 acres of mixed woods and meadow, planted with a mix intended for pollinators, next to a creek, with at least 5 hives on neighbor's property right next door. So, pretty much ideal location.

I'll get over there in a few days to investigate. If there are indeed two, I'll set one up with a regular Langstroth hive right on site, and take the other home.


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## cpekarek (Jan 5, 2017)

Nice.

When was the last time you checked the swarm traps?


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

cpekarek said:


> Nice.
> 
> When was the last time you checked the swarm traps?


I check the ones on my family property about once a week. The others I pretty much leave until told something is going on, so maybe check once a month.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

I have bees!
Two swarm traps at a friend's property are chock-full of bees. They have an eight-acre flower field planted for pollinators, surrounded by woods and a creek. I put three traps there, and got two swarms this week. The owner is pretty sure they came just this week. I visited tonight and took one trap down and put it on a platform directly under where it had been, moved maybe 4 feet. I plan to leave that one and add boxes on top and turn it into a regular Langstroth hive.

The other one I left for tonight and will pick up tomorrow. That one is closer to nuc-sized, and has a couple of frames in it. I imagine it is a mess inside with new comb hanging from the roof. I'll take it home and try to install it in a regular box. This was the very first trap I built, and unfortunately I wasn't too clear on the concept of standardizing equipment at that time, so it won't be as straightforward as my later creations. Since then I eventually went to just making deep Langstroth boxes and putting lids and floors on them for traps, saving a lot of potential trouble when time comes to turn the trap into a hive.

These are my first trapped swarms, so very exciting. The bees are very calm, just ignored me as I stood directly in front of the hive with my face a foot from the entrance, and even when I was unfastening the ties and moving the box only one tried to sting. A mix of very light gold bees and gold and black striped bees.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

Well. Golly. WHat do I do now? The swarm traps have definitely had bees in them for more than a week. I tried to open the first one just to add a box on top, and the entire cover is completely filled with comb, stuffed full of honey. I only lifted the lid a few inches, and set it back since I wasn't prepared to do what amounts to a full cut out. I guess I'll do that tomorrow. What a mess that will be! Live and learn. It's my first swarm trap to catch anything.

The second one is a smaller box, can fit 6 frames, hanging from a tree branch about 5' off the ground, also chock-full of bees. That one I took home tonight, and will try to transfer to a box tomorrow or the next day. Hopefully that will be a bit easier, since it has an inner cover that the new comb will be attached to, and two frames.

One interesting thing, some animal with strong, sharp teeth has been gnawing at the wood. A squirrel? Took out big gouges from the handle and side. Will try to post pics.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)




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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

The mess remains. I finally decided I wasn't getting those bees out of the box without killing hordes of them, possibly including the queen and much of the brood, so I decided to try something different. I tipped the box on it's side and drilled a 1.5" hole in the bottom, and then set it atop a 10-frame Langstroth deep hoping the bees will find their way down and populate the lower box. Within an hour I noticed quite a few apparently using the new lower entrance. In a week or two I'll start closing off the upper entrances. Eventually I'll open the top, smoke the remaining bees out, and take the trap off.


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## cpekarek (Jan 5, 2017)

Sounds like a great plan. The swarms may have been there quite a while. That's a lot of bees hanging out on the outside of the box.


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## g2knee (Nov 13, 2014)

Cpekarek, do you mind reporting on what your scales have read? I ask because my queen has been laying poorly...and I've been told this can be due to a nectar dearth, where the queen will slow down. I'd like to rule out that if possible. Would you consider our area to be in a dearth?


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## cpekarek (Jan 5, 2017)

We are not in a dearth but the drier weather over the past 3 weeks has probably resulted in slightly less nectar. I haven't been in my hives for a few weeks but the bees are very active every day. Everything at the entrances seem normal. Pollen is coming in fast from a variety of wild mustard. The main nectar sources by me include Common Milkweed, Swamp Milkweed, Common Clover, white sweet clover and yellow sweet clover.

The weight gain on the 2 hives I measure has slowed quite a bit. The 1st year package hive has gained 2 lbs in the past 14 days. My second year hive has gained 4 lbs in the past 14 days. That doesn't seem like much but bee colonies are probably at their peak populations right now so while they are collecting a lot, they are using a lot. They are using up nectar almost as fast as they are bringing in. There are some days when the hive gains 6 to 7 lbs but the net gain for the day might only be 3 to 5 ounces once the nectar is dried down and used to feed the growing population.

You may have a poor queen or the colony might be lacking in pollen or nectar which would cause the queen to slow down. It's hard to know for sure. That's one of the nice things about having more than one hive because you can compare their performance to see if it is just a poor performing hive or if there is a single cause like a dearth which is impacting all the hives.


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## g2knee (Nov 13, 2014)

Thanks a lot for the info. There is certainly no shortage of pollen, and my bees have plenty of nectar for use as far as I can tell. I'm suspecting the queen more and more, since she hasn't been great even from the start.

I wish I had a 2nd hive -- maybe next year. In the meantime, I'm glad to have communities like these to help troubleshoot.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

It was a mess. I went back to the woods to transfer my other swarm trapped bees into a proper hive setup. Sure enough, they had the entire box stuffed full of honey and brood, a full ten-deep. I had put 4 frames in it of old brood and honey comb, but the middle was all empty space, and it was all comb attached to the roof. Not going to make that mistake again.

I used a machete to loosen the roof from the edges and the frames, and lifted the mass of comb out and put it on the ground upside-down, so the comb faced up. Then I went to work removing the comb and tying the brood comb into frames. The honey comb and lots of bees went into a bucket.

There were piles of bees everywhere. On the ground, on the hive, mixed in the honey. No idea what happened to the queen, never saw her, so I hope she is Okay, or at least they can make a new one. There were several queen cups being built, but no closed ones that I noticed in the ruckus.

When I left there were thousands of bees covering the outside of the hive. I left them two ten-deep boxes, so they have twice the space they did. Even with the death-toll, I think they need the space. That hives was saturated with bees when I opened it. 

The other swarm, the one I took home, is moving down into the lower box. I peeked in a few days ago and they were busy renovating a few of the frames. No brood or honey storage yet that I could see. I think just cleaning the old comb.


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## cyber (Jan 1, 2016)

As some of you probably know, the Fox Lake area had a big flood. My backyard has water up to my knees (my house is fine). 2 of my 4 hives were in the deep water that was about 2 inches from the hive entrance. I moved one small hive and had to leave one 5 box hive where it was. I gave it an upper opening and hope the water does not rise anymore. Bees acted normal. I feel lucky because lots of flooded homes in the area.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

cyber said:


> As some of you probably know, the Fox Lake area had a big flood.


That's only an hour or so from my place. I feel lucky, lots of rain but nowhere near that much! Best of luck!


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## g2knee (Nov 13, 2014)

My first year package continues to do well. They've finally drawn out both brood boxes, and I added a medium honey super last weekend. As of this past weekend, they haven't drawn any wax on the super, but they are grouping up on the frames, so I'm guessing they are getting ready to. I'm thinking the reduced nectar flow is making them "lazy" in terms of building wax. The brood nest is getting crowded with nectar, so I hope they build in the super soon and start storing their goods there.

Last mite count was very low (normal for 1st year bees I hear) and all is well.


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## cpekarek (Jan 5, 2017)

The scales on my hives showed that 5 to 10 days ago the bees were using more nectar than they were bringing in. Since then, the hives have been gaining weight. I think our recent rains have resulted in plants producing more nectar the past couple of days. g2knee, If your brood nest is filling with nectar you may want to replace a frame or two with new frames if you have them. This photo is of a 2nd year hive and shows the weight was about 183 lbs 10 days ago, went down to 176 lbs 5 days ago and has gone up to 190 lbs as of this morning.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

cepek.......
I am from MO but I like when you post your data and give your reasoning for the possible changes.
Cheers
gww


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## Planner (Apr 3, 2016)

Sorry to her about your flooding. I live generally in the southern part of Lake County andI was fortunate not to flood. If you need some helpless us know.


cyber said:


> As some of you probably know, the Fox Lake area had a big flood. My backyard has water up to my knees (my house is fine). 2 of my 4 hives were in the deep water that was about 2 inches from the hive entrance. I moved one small hive and had to leave one 5 box hive where it was. I gave it an upper opening and hope the water does not rise anymore. Bees acted normal. I feel lucky because lots of flooded homes in the area.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

Checked my dink hive yesterday. This one went into winter strong, and came out with maybe 500 bees total. I have pretty much left it be other than looking inside once in a while. The whole hive is one medium. Well they finally are starting to look better. Instead of two palm-sized patches of brood on facing frames, they actually have 2 frames full of brood. The entrance is starting to look normal, with a steady stream of bees in and out, not the few/minute I was seeing all spring. If they look good next week, I'll give them another box to build up into. I'd like to get a deep on top so I can have them in a deep next spring.

The two swarms caught look good so far. One was set up in 2 regular deeps and seems to be filling up the top deep now. They may even get a medium soon.
The other one is still in the trap, an oddball box about equivalent to a 6-frame nuc. I keep hoping they will move brooding down into the deep I put under them, but so far they are filling it with nectar. I put a lawnchair next to the exit, and just about every day relax for a while watching their behavior. Very tame, they don't even notice my face 6 inches from the exit. The queen must have mated with a variety of drones; they vary a lot in color and size. Short, fat goldens, long, slim blacks, and recently some bigger, fat goldens. The drones all seem to be enormous, and very light brown colored.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

Checked second swarm hive today. It looks great. Pulled a few frames from the upper deep and they are full of brood and covered with bees. SO I put a medium on top. It looks so strong I am considering either stealing a few frames of brood to bulk up my weak hive, or even doing a split. The location is the edge of an 8-acre field planted specifically for pollinators, surrounded by woods and fields, so plenty of food.


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## g2knee (Nov 13, 2014)

Ckeparek, mind reporting in your scales again? They really provide valuable insight and data...

I noticed myself that my hives seem lighter than they did a few weeks ago, and there is drastically less nectar around the brood nest. I'm wondering if it's just me, because it's quite a change. Weather has been dry, but still.


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## cpekarek (Jan 5, 2017)

This screenshot is from my 2nd year hive. The weight has fluctuated throughout the past month and has lost about 9 lbs in the last 7 days. The hive is still quite active. 
Golden Rod is just about ready to bloom and may provide some additional nectar. I was in Highland Park this past Friday and the Golden Rod was blooming like crazy which surprised me since they are north of my location. 

I'm probably going to start treating for mites with OA Vapor in 2 weeks. I'm also going to make quilting boxes to keep my hives drier this winter.


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## g2knee (Nov 13, 2014)

9 lbs! Wow. Assuming there aren't great losses of population, that means they are eating through over a pound of honey a day!

I'm concerned my bees don't have much honey left in their hive right now, so I hope the fall flow is a great one. I'm new to this though, so it's possible I am concerned about things I shouldn't be.

I just applied MAQS today. Wish my ladies luck.


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

Seems to have been having sporadic mini-flows since mid-July. Keep expecting there to be robbing and just am not seeing it.
Am not seeing any goldenrod down here yet but I haven't been looking that hard. When I start smelling it I'll look.
Usually there are goldenrod plants in the bee yard so I'll know when it's on. Not yet.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

Went ahead and did a split of my strong hive, about two weeks ago now. Checked on one half today. It seems to be doing fine, very active and starting to work the lower deep. I plan to leave it alone for now and let it just work at making stores for next winter. Will probably look in on the other half tomorrow. I am trying to figure out which half got the queen.
Got stung today too, a big surprise as this hive has been so tame. I had just opened the top and several came out and buzzed me hard. One shot straight to the only exposed skin, my wrist, and nailed me. No swelling, so that's good.


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## cpekarek (Jan 5, 2017)

An update on the weight of one of my 2nd year hives. The hive weighed around 180 to 190 lbs in mid-July. The weight dropped to the 170 to 180 lb range from the end of July through the first 3 weeks of August. The weight has gone up 10 lbs in the past 3 days. Goldenrod is in bloom. There is still a lot of activity on clover in areas that are irrigated.


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## g2knee (Nov 13, 2014)

10 lbs in 3 days is huge. Gives me hope that my girls will collect enough for their first winter.

How late into the year do they keep foraging in or area? Early October?


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## cpekarek (Jan 5, 2017)

Things will start to really slow down in 2 to 3 weeks. Our first frost is around October 10th. Once the fall nectar flow stops, it's time to check hive weight and begin feeding if necessary to have enough stores to overwinter. Feeding should be done before temps drop too much.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

Went ahead and took off two frames of honey yesterday. Probably shouldn't, as none of the hives are building up as much as I would like. But, mother-in-law is staying with us for a few days, and my wife wanted to give her some fresh honey to take home for the relatives...

One hive is cleaning out lots of weak drones and wingless young bees. Every day I look I see a half-dozen or so. I opened up the hive and it is bustling with healthy activity, and look as I could, I didn't see any mites.


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## cyber (Jan 1, 2016)

I had a poor honey crop this year. My second year hive produced one honey super, but my two new package hives did not touch the honey supers. Im feeding all three now and they are taking 2:1 syrup very fast. Treated for mites with OAV.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

cyber said:


> I had a poor honey crop this year. My second year hive produced one honey super, but my two new package hives did not touch the honey supers. Im feeding all three now and they are taking 2:1 syrup very fast. Treated for mites with OAV.


Not much honey for mine either. A lot less than last year.


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## Planner (Apr 3, 2016)

How many supers?


cpekarek said:


> An update on the weight of one of my 2nd year hives. The hive weighed around 180 to 190 lbs in mid-July. The weight dropped to the 170 to 180 lb range from the end of July through the first 3 weeks of August. The weight has gone up 10 lbs in the past 3 days. Goldenrod is in bloom. There is still a lot of activity on clover in areas that are irrigated.
> View attachment 35255


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

Hey N Illinois beekeepers, is it too late to remove a queen and hope they replace her? I have a queen who lays great, but there is a lot of mites and wrinkled wined larvae. I expect the hive to die this winter, but would like to give them a fighting chance, so I thought maybe stick her in a nuc with some bees and let the main hive requeen.
Pointless? Too late? Some other strategy better?
Yes, I will treat as soon as Amazon delivers.


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

AR1 said:


> Hey N Illinois beekeepers, is it too late to remove a queen and hope they replace her? I have a queen who lays great, but there is a lot of mites and wrinkled wined larvae. I expect the hive to die this winter, but would like to give them a fighting chance, so I thought maybe stick her in a nuc with some bees and let the main hive requeen.
> Pointless? Too late? Some other strategy better?
> Yes, I will treat as soon as Amazon delivers.


Before you make that decision it would be wise to check hives for drones. I suspect it's too late for queen rearing and getting one going before it frosts. It's possible but I would not bet on it.


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## cpekarek (Jan 5, 2017)

I'm 99% sure it's too late to start a new queen in our area. I did see a drone being dragged out of one of my hives yesterday but that must have been one of the last ones. Another week will pass before you develop a new queen. By then there won't be any drones in our area. Are the bees in that hive still bringing in pollen and nectar or are they too weak? I would treat for mites and feed syrup and pollen paddie which might help the queen lay some eggs for winter bees. Good luck.


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## AmericanApiaries (Jan 27, 2017)

AR1 said:


> Hey N Illinois beekeepers, is it too late to remove a queen and hope they replace her? I have a queen who lays great, but there is a lot of mites and wrinkled wined larvae. I expect the hive to die this winter, but would like to give them a fighting chance, so I thought maybe stick her in a nuc with some bees and let the main hive requeen.
> Pointless? Too late? Some other strategy better?
> Yes, I will treat as soon as Amazon delivers.



I did that to ~10 hives in late July. I think it is too late to do it now 
The parent hives were in outyards. We brought the nucs we made to a home yard where we keep our nucs. 
We found the queens in double deeps and caged them,
took a 5 frame nuc with drawn comb and stores and shook in LOTS of nurse bees 
Treated the bees in the nuc with oxalic
Put the caged queen in the nuc and let them quick release her with a marshmello (mostly because we were transporting the nucs)
Put a ripe queen cell in the parent hive. 
Came back when all the brood had hatched out and treated the parent hive with Oxalic. 
We got good results from this. We fed the nucs to help them get going and they had drawn comb and stores to start with. 
If a queen fails to mate or one of the original queens is damaged, you can always recombine.


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## Eikel (Mar 12, 2014)

> there is a lot of mites and wrinkled wined larvae. I expect the hive to die this winter, but would like to give them a fighting chance


 I know your question was specific to the hive successfully generating an emergency queen but I'm curious to the rationale of how removing the current queen will give the hive a fighting chance?


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## bjorn (Aug 7, 2013)

I would not requeen at this point unless you have a mated queen in hand. You're looking at 16 days till a new queen would emerge, then she will wander the hive for several days before going out to mate. If she makes it back and if she is successfully mated, it will be at least another 21 days before any new bees emerge. Either do as much as you can to help them with this queen or get rid of the queen and combine the remaining bees with another hive over newspaper.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

Eikel said:


> I know your question was specific to the hive successfully generating an emergency queen but I'm curious to the rationale of how removing the current queen will give the hive a fighting chance?


Forcing a break in brood. Then treating to kill off any mites on adult bees.
I like the current queen, she really makes loads of eggs.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

bjorn said:


> I would not requeen at this point unless you have a mated queen in hand. You're looking at 16 days till a new queen would emerge, then she will wander the hive for several days before going out to mate. If she makes it back and if she is successfully mated, it will be at least another 21 days before any new bees emerge. Either do as much as you can to help them with this queen or get rid of the queen and combine the remaining bees with another hive over newspaper.


Makes sense. Thanks. I am strongly considering the newspaper combine.


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## bjorn (Aug 7, 2013)

There's a beekeeper in Byron who does raise some queens. He teaches classes at the Jarrett Center. He usually raises queens in the summer, but I doubt he has any now. Plus, they would not be mated. He just grafts and raises cells.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

bjorn said:


> There's a beekeeper in Byron who does raise some queens. He teaches classes at the Jarrett Center. He usually raises queens in the summer, but I doubt he has any now. Plus, they would not be mated. He just grafts and raises cells.


The Jarrett Center is a good local resource. I have not gotten involved there yet, but hope to have the time next spring. One of my neighbors keeps bees that were lent to them by Jarrett, and I believe they also get management help.


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## bjorn (Aug 7, 2013)

Jeff, who runs the classes is a sideline beekeeper with around 50 hives I believe. He's very knowledgeable, an excellent resource for info, and just a heck of a nice guy. They have meetings I believe the 2nd sunday every month at Jarrett.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

Put some traps out last week. Checked today and two of them are being checked out by scouts. Very happy since I had total loss last winter. Too many mites, wrinkled wings, and not enough food. 

Are any swarms being spotted in Northern Il yet? I am just south of Rockford.


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## Northern IL (May 19, 2010)

I'm in Savanna IL ,have not seen swarms yet but pulled some capped queen cells out of a hive yesterday. How many hives did you lose .


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

Northern IL said:


> I'm in Savanna IL ,have not seen swarms yet but pulled some capped queen cells out of a hive yesterday. How many hives did you lose .


I had 5. Lost all 5. Mites, virus, and low food. The two I thought might make it got isolated during the January cold snap and starved out. The other three had bad mites/wrinkled wing that I treated too late to do much good.

On a happy note, I placed a bunch of bait hives last week and two of them have scouts in them. One has a good bunch; I counted twenty hanging out front, popping in and out and flying off and returning (I assume). High hopes for that one. The other one only has a few scouts and very likely are from the same home hive as the first one, as the locations are pretty close together. I caught two there last summer.

I am basically straight east of Savanna, so I would expect you to be seeing activity too.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

I have bees! One of my traps now has an active colony, the same one that I saw a lot of scouts at a few days ago. Piles of yellow pollen coming in. It is so hot that most of the bees are just bearding, taking it easy for Memorial Day. It took a strong effort of will not to pop the top and look inside, but I succeeded. Just leave them alone for a few weeks to get a good start, I keep telling myself.

So basically we can say that the entire state is now in swarm season, since I am near the top of the state. I have two more traps to get out somewhere, all set up and ready to go.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

Brought my trapped bees home a few days ago and put them in my back yard with a second deep on top. They now have a top entrance as well as the lower entrance. Within one day of putting the deep on top they had the top entrance half-blocked up, and now three days later it is almost entirely blocked except for three one-bee-wide holes and a narrow gap at the top. I guess they decided they didn't really need much space. I wonder how and why they decided that. I assume that when the top is fully occupied they can just as easily open that back up.
Off to drive around the traps and see if I have any activity.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

Maybe getting another swarm. I put a few traps in the yard around my house this year (got lazy and didn't place as many out and about). Went out this morning after I got home from work and there were several bees flying in and out. Possibly scavengers I thought, since the frames I put in had a few cells of honey. This evening I walked by again before going back to work and lots more bees were buzzing about the entrance very energetically. Hoping for the best and looking forward to getting off work this morning! 

Lots of rain yesterday and storms predicted for the next few days so won't be able to check my other traps, too muddy.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

It's March. Getting thinking about putting the traps out again. I used lemon grass oil the last two years and got a couple of swarms both years. Thinking about trying swarm commander this year.

I had a sad Fall. Beatles and moths and mites went wild and destroyed my hives. I treated the mites and reduced the unused space in my hives to try to help the bees have less territory to defend, but too late. 

It is supposed to get down to about zero again tonight. I moved all my used equipment outdoors in hopes of killing off any moth larvae left over from last fall.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

I just got a few swarm traps out today. It has been so wet that I have not been able to drive back to the woods. Last two days were rain-free with just a bit of sun so I decided to give it a try. Almost got stuck anyway! Last year I caught a swarm on May 28 in that location. This is the coldest, wettest Spring for a long while. I still have a few more traps to put up, but the weather for the rest of the week is for rain and storms every day.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

I got a swarm at the end of May and it is really building up. Now filling up a second deep with nice brood pattern. I found the queen yesterday, an unmarked grey color. Most of the workers are quite dark, some nearly pure black. Very tame. I can open teh top and do some manipulations without any smoke, which is nice. 
Plan is to wait a bit until the second box is full them try a fly-back split and make some nucs. I have never made nucs before so I took an old 10-frmae deep and just cut it in half and added new sides.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

AR1 said:


> I got a swarm at the end of May and it is really building up. Now filling up a second deep with nice brood pattern. I found the queen yesterday, an unmarked grey color. Most of the workers are quite dark, some nearly pure black. Very tame. I can open teh top and do some manipulations without any smoke, which is nice.
> Plan is to wait a bit until the second box is full them try a fly-back split and make some nucs. I have never made nucs before so I took an old 10-frmae deep and just cut it in half and added new sides.


Nice, AR.
This coming weekend this is my project to do - two resources are going to be fly-back'ed.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

GregV said:


> Nice, AR.
> This coming weekend this is my project to do - two resources are going to be fly-back'ed.


Any tips? 
I have never tried anything but a walk-away split. I am thinking of making two 5-frame nucs with the bulk of the brood and supplies, and one ten-frame deep which will have the queen, one frame of eggs, one or two frames of pollen and honey.

I read some of Lauri Miller's old posts on making fly-back splits and want to give it a try.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

When doing a fly back split with intent of making nucs, I prefer a two step process. Step one is to make the flyback as you described, moving the entire original hive to another location in your yard. You can even place it next to the flyback. Wait 10 days and THEN make your nucs with the frames containing the queen cells the still strong hive full of nurse bees has made. You get better fed queens this way. Divide up the remaining resources, bees, capped brood, frames, etc. as you see fit, but make sure each nuc gets plenty of stores.

Oops, just realized you were leaving eggs with the queen. Give her just one frame of capped brood and one partial frame of honey. Leave all the eggs in the original hive.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

JWPalmer said:


> When doing a fly back split with intent of making nucs, I prefer a two step process. Step one is to make the flyback as you described, moving the entire original hive to another location in your yard. You can even place it next to the flyback. Wait 10 days and THEN make your nucs with the frames containing the queen cells the still strong hive full of nurse bees has made. You get better fed queens this way. Divide up the remaining resources, bees, capped brood, frames, etc. as you see fit, but make sure each nuc gets plenty of stores.
> 
> Oops, just realized you were leaving eggs with the queen. Give her just one frame of capped brood and one partial frame of honey. Leave all the eggs in the original hive.


I am missing something in your advice. Here is my plan:
1. Identify the queen and sequester her briefly in a nuc while doing the remaining manipulations.
2. Divide the hive's resources into nucs: honey, pollen and eggs, all covered in nurse bees. Need a strong population of nurse bees in each nuc. They will make queens from the eggs.
3. Return queen, some brood and a few frames of food to the original hive in the original location with a lot of new, clean frames. All of the field bees will automatically return to the original location, but they will have to build a lot of new comb to allow the queen to start laying again. With the whole field bee force available they should build up again very quickly. 
4. Feed the nucs and original hive to encourage rapid growth and comb production.

My understanding is that this method allows the entire hive plus daughter nucs to get a brood break and hopefully cuts mite reproduction. It should also prevent swarming. No plan to take much honey this year.
Have to watch the nucs carefully to make sure they re-queen.
This sounds a little different from your advice. Any suggestions are welcome.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

JWPalmer said:


> When doing a fly back split with intent of making nucs, I prefer a two step process. Step one is to make the flyback as you described, moving the entire original hive to another location in your yard. You can even place it next to the flyback. Wait 10 days and THEN make your nucs with the frames containing the queen cells the still strong hive full of nurse bees has made. You get better fed queens this way. Divide up the remaining resources, bees, capped brood, frames, etc. as you see fit, but make sure each nuc gets plenty of stores.
> 
> Oops, just realized you were leaving eggs with the queen. Give her just one frame of capped brood and one partial frame of honey. Leave all the eggs in the original hive.


I am missing something in your advice. Here is my plan:
1. Identify the queen and sequester her briefly in a nuc while doing the remaining manipulations.
2. Divide the hive's resources into nucs: honey, pollen and eggs, all covered in nurse bees. Need a strong population of nurse bees in each nuc. They will make queens from the eggs.
3. Return queen, some brood and a few frames of food to the original hive in the original location with a lot of new, clean frames. All of the field bees will automatically return to the original location, but they will have to build a lot of new comb to allow the queen to start laying again. With the whole field bee force available they should build up again very quickly. 
4. Feed the nucs and original hive to encourage rapid growth and comb production.

My understanding is that this method allows the entire hive plus daughter nucs to get a brood break and hopefully cuts mite reproduction. It should also prevent swarming. No plan to take much honey this year.
Have to watch the nucs carefully to make sure they re-queen.
This sounds a little different from your advice. Any suggestions are welcome.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

Or, put the queen into a nuc and leave the original hive queenless! Then divide into nucs 10 days later. Is that what you meant?


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Yes, put the queen in the new hive in the old location with a little food, a frame of capped brood, and a bunch of empties. Move the original, now queenless hive to another spot. Let them make the queen cells and then do your splits just before the cells are due to emerge. About to perform this proceedure on several of mine today because grafting has not been working out so well. In my case, our dearth has started so the new hive will be getting a feeder to stimulate comb production. The nucs will get fed once they are made.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

JWPalmer said:


> Yes, put the queen in the new hive in the old location with a little food, a frame of capped brood, and a bunch of empties. Move the original, now queenless hive to another spot. Let them make the queen cells and then do your splits just before the cells are due to emerge. About to perform this proceedure on several of mine today because grafting has not been working out so well. In my case, our dearth has started so the new hive will be getting a feeder to stimulate comb production. The nucs will get fed once they are made.


I found the queen a few days ago and put her with a bunch of supplies and nurse bees into a nuc. I moved that a short distance away and left the original hive otherwise intact. I have been feeding the original hive sugar water in jars.

Plan is to wait another week then dig into the original hive and see what I've got for queen cells, then divide the (hoped for) bounty into nucs, and replace the queen in her old home. 

Reading your post again I see this is the opposite of what you advised! We shall just see how it all turns out. My hope is that by leaving the old hive in the original position, the large workforce of bees will have no trouble raising the brood properly and creating queen cells, while the old queen is safe in a nuc with plenty of young bees and food.

My worry about that plan is will the hive accept the old queen back or will they not recognize her and ball her? If that's a real concern I'll keep her separate and just make nucs. I hadn't thought of that when I made my plan. Perils of the undereducated keeper.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

JWPalmer said:


> Yes, put the queen in the new hive in the old location with a little food, a frame of capped brood, and a bunch of empties. Move the original, now queenless hive to another spot. Let them make the queen cells and then do your splits just before the cells are due to emerge. About to perform this proceedure on several of mine today because grafting has not been working out so well. In my case, our dearth has started so the new hive will be getting a feeder to stimulate comb production. The nucs will get fed once they are made.


I found the queen a few days ago and put her with a bunch of supplies and nurse bees into a nuc. I moved that a short distance away and left the original hive otherwise intact. I have been feeding the original hive sugar water in jars.

Plan is to wait another week then dig into the original hive and see what I've got for queen cells, then divide the (hoped for) bounty into nucs, and replace the queen in her old home. 

Reading your post again I see this is the opposite of what you advised! We shall just see how it all turns out. My hope is that by leaving the old hive in the original position, the large workforce of bees will have no trouble raising the brood properly and creating queen cells, while the old queen is safe in a nuc with plenty of young bees and food.

My worry about that plan is will the hive accept the old queen back or will they not recognize her and ball her? If that's a real concern I'll keep her separate and just make nucs. I hadn't thought of that when I made my plan. Perils of the undereducated keeper.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

Saw the first small hive beetle of this year today. It was on the landing board and the bees were harassing it like crazy. One would charge, bite and shake it, then another. It finally disappeared. I should have squashed it but it was so entertaining watching the bees go at it.


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## schmism (Feb 7, 2009)

AR1 said:


> Saw the first small hive beetle of this year today. It was on the landing board and the bees were harassing it like crazy. One would charge, bite and shake it, then another. It finally disappeared. I should have squashed it but it was so entertaining watching the bees go at it.


Which is such a change from last year this when I was ordering my first ever hive beetle traps because they were so bad. But again this year ive only seen 1 or 2


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

schmism said:


> Which is such a change from last year this when I was ordering my first ever hive beetle traps because they were so bad. But again this year ive only seen 1 or 2


Well, they are a southern bug, I believe. I suspect the really hard winter knocked them back a bit. This year I am getting almost no grapes, no peaches at all, and only a handful of raspberries. Tough year for lots of things. Even the Japanese beetles are lower in numbers this year.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

I saw a small hive beetle at the bottom of a hive yesterday, so today I went looking for them. I pulled all the frames out and put them in another box one by one. Saw no beetles on the frames, but a bunch, maybe 6 on the lower board. It was very interesting watching the bees attack the beetles as they were exposed. They went right at them biting. There were several dead beetles lying on the floor so I think the bees are aggressive enough to actually kill some. Good to see. These bees are definitely biters. Dark color, brown to black, maybe carnies.

So I rehived everything in a new box in case there were beetles I missed somewhere and closed everything up tight except a narrow entrance. Last year was bad, so will have to keep an eye on things. Tomorrow will check the other hives.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

No more beetles so far! 

Yesterday I heard a queen piping for the first time. This was in a hive I took the queen out of to stimulate new queens. I had divided up all the queen cells I found and made 2 nucs plus the original hive with those cells, plus a hive with the original queen.

I checked one nuc yesterday and found the queen cell empty. I did not see a queen in the hive so I swapped in a frame of eggs and larvae just in case they didn't succeed in making a queen. I have one more nuc to check. Maybe tomorrow. 

I like having peaceful bees! I spent the whole day stripping the shigles off of a shed and started nailing on new shingles, directly in front of two nucs and a hive. Not one bee so much as buzzed me as I walked back and forth hauling shingles and cutting them etc.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

The hive with the piping queen swarmed a few days later. Lucky, it landed in a small apple tree just a few yards away and I got them. Today found the queen and a large area of eggs and larvae.

The hive she left behind remained queenless so I did a newspaper combine today with the original swarm queen that came May 30. I had her sequestered and was robbing frames of eggs for my splits. Poor girl, took too many and the hive was dwindling, though she was laying a lot. I gave her back to her original hive so she will have plenty of staff to support her brood.

So from one swarm on May 30 I now have 4 hives with active queens. One is going to my niece who has had bees in the past. Her husband made most of my original equipment for me free of charge. 

Except for small hive beetles I have not seen any pests at all. Need to do an alcohol wash to verify. I spend several minutes on each hive every few days looking for mites, and not seen even one, but they must be there somewhere. In the past I have never had problems spotting mites if there were very many present. Possibly all the splitting and broodless periods is keeping them down. I even cut off drone brood and opened a few dozen and found not one mite.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

First update of 2020. Went into winter with 4 hives, came out of winter with 4 hives, so very happy. 

One, the weakest going in came out quite weak but I see pollen going in so I assume there is a queen present. Two of the hives were 5-frame deep nucs. They all got sugar over the winter and had thick insulation on tops with uninsulated sides. 

Feeding sugar water in open containers. Fun to watch the busyness. Maples are blooming, and willows. Have not seen much else.


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