# chemtrails threatening environment, human health & bees



## Humanbeeing (Nov 23, 2010)

"Are we beekeepers just going to watch and say nothing?"

Nope. Every time I see them spraying, I curse them. It's Geoengineering. I think they are changing the PH of the soil, among other things, so only Monsanto seeds will grow well. In the past ten years, my garden has produced less and less. I use only open pollinated, heirloom seeds. I test the soil and keep it in premium condition. I have no real proof, just a gut feeling that that is the cause. I'm not alone in my opinion.
What ever it is, I can tell you it's not to help us. In a world where the United States economy is not to big to fail, anything is possible at the hands of mad men.


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

Whoa, do not curse chemicals. The bees, the honey, the wax, the wood, YOU are made of chemicals. That is why I get a hoot out of chemical free beekeeping. 

mike


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

There are many that believe the whole so-called "chemtrail" thing to be one big, silly hoax. I'm surprised that it has managed to last as long as it has.

It does make for entertaining reading at times as does any well-written piece in the conspiracy theory genre. I'm not worried for my bees.

wayne


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Stromnessbees said:


> Are we beekeepers just going to watch and say nothing?


Whenever I see one, I usually say "cool!"


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## rwlaw (May 4, 2009)

When I was a pup there was a guy allways said " them missels they're puttin in the air are goin to mix up the weather".
Kinda looks like the story has evolved eh?


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## Stromnessbees (Jan 3, 2010)

Thanks for your opinions.

I understand those of you who dismiss it, as until recently I did the same. But now I am convinced that this topic needs investigating, for the sake of the bees and ourselves. 

It's not just about geoengineering (weather manipulation), the range of chemicals involved is scary: Barium, Arsenic, Aluminium, ... and all of it has to come back down to the ground at some point. And then there are the fuzzy, cloudy skies, which will reduce the growing rate of plants and probably the nectar yield as well. 

There have even been links to outbreaks of unusual diseases like Morgellon Syndrome, which seems to be on a steep increase.

Our bees have enough problems to deal with, we don't need chemtrails to give us and them another headache.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

rwlaw said:


> When I was a pup there was a guy allways said " them missels they're puttin in the air are goin to mix up the weather".
> Kinda looks like the story has evolved eh?


It's good that the Shuttle Program at NASA is coming to an end. Now maybe the Earth will regain its' normal rotation. Those rockets, especially the number of them, have thrown us into a wobble.

Bees get headaches? Who woulda thunk.


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

Stromnessbees said:


> ...Our bees have enough problems to deal with, we don't need chemtrails to give us and them another headache.


"Chemtrails" are fiction, with no proven basis in fact, though you offer them up as fact. These stories have been around for about as long as contrails (condensation trails) and our bees have managed to survive all these years. 

But really, you're citing stuff from a website called Aircrap.com "Monitoring the Planned Poisoning Of Humanity?" C'mon. What does this have to do with bees? Anything? More like tailgater fodder.

Of course, I'll continue to make hundreds of thousands of teeny-tiny tin-foil hats for each of the bees in each hive. No sense in taking any chances. 

Wayne


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## John C (Sep 19, 2010)

Sitting in my backyard this past summer with one of my buddies we noticed how long and lingering the trails were being left by planes passing overhead. We were discussing how when we were kids we didn't remember them being that way. I didn't realize there was a name for this. Seems really odd.


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## kwest (May 16, 2009)

i think that there are probably alot more planes flying than when you were a kid also. i know thats the case for me. you guys have to much time on your hands. :lpf:


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## Scrapfe (Jul 25, 2008)

In the 1930s, when Kreig lights (large carbon arc search lights) first began scanning the night sky at state fairs, grand openings, or movie premiers, people expressed similar opinions about the giant fingers of light cutting through night sky. The Earth and the bees on it managed to survive that cataclysm and I suspect they will somehow manage to struggle through this one as well.


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## berkshire bee (Jan 28, 2007)

Well when we were kids, the jet trails lasted most of the day depending on the weather. It's nothing more than ice crystals from the jet exhaust. As far as morgellons, it's not really a diagnosable disease. Pretty much everyone who supposedly has it is "self diagnosed" from reading the crap that's on the internet. Morgellons is a mental condition, but there is so much bad information on the internet that it's hard to dig deep enough to find the truth. People afflicted pick at their own skin and that causes the "unexplained " sores. A relative of mine "has" it. We've witnessed her picking endlessly and pulling her own hair out. It's sad that all of the false information out there perpetuates these things. She has also been followed a number of times by UFOs, has witnessed ghosts in every apartment she's lived in and has been abducted by aliens. Years of taking oxycotin, and other strong drugs have taken their toll. The internet is great for sharing things like bee information (which you also have to sometimes verify) but as far as spreading rumors and conspiracy theories, it's the worst thing that ever happened.


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## Stromnessbees (Jan 3, 2010)

I am aware how scientific research is to be conducted, and that's why I was impressed how Rosalind Peterson has analysed the problem of the chemtrails. 

Here is the link again: 
http://aircrap.org/rosalind-peterson-the-chemtrail-cover-up/3363/

Her conclusions are logical and based on observations and critical analysis of a huge amount of data (water samples). This convinced me that there is more to the story of chemtrails than I ever thought before. 

As to the problem of Morgellons and other so called imagined diseases: How do you feel about people who say that our bee problems are only imagined?

If we want others to take our problems seriously we also have to give some credence to what they are saying.


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## mac (May 1, 2005)

Ignorance is bliss.


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## berkshire bee (Jan 28, 2007)

Stromness said "As to the problem of Morgellons and other so called imagined diseases: How do you feel about people who say that our bee problems are only imagined?
If we want others to take our problems seriously we also have to give some credence to what they are saying"

I agree in giving credence to something that is true and has fact based evidence, but as far as morgellons, there is none. It's blamed on all sorts of things from chem trails to alien technology that the government is hiding from us. The problem with trying to find out info about it online, is most of what you come up with are inter-related sites by the same people and groups who perpetuate the misinformation, and the connections are too long to go into on this forum.

Yes, the problems with bees are real, but they can almost all be attributed to man. Moving bees from country to country, the monoculture of Almond growing, and bringing all of the thousands of hives from all over the country into one place. That's asking for disaster, but because people have grown the industry so huge and now depend on it for their livelihood, heads get stuck in the sand, methods and treatments that shouldn't be used, are, and as long as we continue like this, we're on a very scary path.
Check out "honey bee blues" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8u1qWYIlqU
When Dr Dennis Anderson saw the almond groves, he couldn't believe there were almond trees all the way to the horizon and as far as he could see in every direction, without a single flower in sight.


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## Scrapfe (Jul 25, 2008)

Stromnessbees said:


> Thanks for your opinions... There have
> ...been links to outbreaks of ... Morgellon Syndrome, which seems to be on a steep increase...


Perhaps Morgellons is another form of this older known disease… Munchausen Syndrome…

Munchausen Syndrome is recognized today as a serious, dangerous, and deadly mental illness. It has been recognized as such for almost 300 years, yet science today is no closer to an answer for Munchausen than it was 300 years ago. However, there are some parallels between Munchausen and Morgellons, and I suspect that a diagnosis of Munchausen Syndrome carries a much greater social stigma than a diagnosis of Morgellons, which may even garner a patient some sympathy and attention from today’s popular culture. Therefore, socal or evolutionary pressure may be transforming Munchausen, into Morgellons.

Anyway, here is what the Mayo Clinic says about Munchausen Syndrome.
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/munchausen-syndrome/DS00965

And here is what the Mayo Clinic says about Morgellons>
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/morgellons-disease/SN00043

This is a snippet from the Mayo Clinic concerning Morgellon’s Syndrome. The highlighted portion, was highlighted by me.
“Some people… [who say they have Morgellons] …claim they've been ignored, criticized as delusional or dismissed as fakers. In contrast, some doctors say that people who report signs and symptoms of Morgellons disease typically *resist other explanations for their condition*.”

Wow, that not only suggests that patients go out of their way to aquire Morgellons Syndrome that also suggests that the diagnosis for Morgellons is that first, the patient claims they have Morgellons, second, the doctor examines them and says they don’t, third the patient then ignores their doctor, and fourth, POOF… that’s proof the patient has Morgellons,… cool. Now click the link below to fade to black with Rod Serling ce 1959. 
http://www.hark.com/clips/bnfjklscqt-twilight-zone-theme


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## tomsawyer (Jun 9, 2010)

Chemtrails are nonsense. Anyone who "believes" in them does not understand science or the scientific method. It's really that simple.

This video has no evidence, just some nutter rambling on about chemicals.


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## D Coates (Jan 6, 2006)

75% of posts to this one subject? I smell an axe being ground.


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## mac (May 1, 2005)

Well I understand science but I don’t do science. I believe the science is being done and the experiments are being conducted and we are the guinea pigs.

Weather Modification 
Research & Technology 
Act Of 2005

S 517 IS 

109th CONGRESS 

1st Session 

S. 517 

To establish the Weather Modification Operations and Research Board, and for other purposes. 

9-2-5 (3) RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT- The term `research and development' means theoretical analysis, exploration, experimentation, and the extension of investigative findings and theories of scientific or technical nature into practical application for experimental and demonstration purposes, including the experimental production and testing of models, devices, equipment, materials, and processes. 
(4) WEATHER MODIFICATION- The term `weather modification' means changing or controlling, or attempting to change or control, by artificial methods the natural development of atmospheric cloud forms or precipitation forms which occur in the troposphere.


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## brushmouth (Jan 17, 2010)

tomsawyer said:


> Chemtrails are nonsense. Anyone who "believes" in them does not understand science or the scientific method. It's really that simple.
> 
> This video has no evidence, just some nutter rambling on about chemicals.


Tom Sawyer would have done his own investigation on the subject.
(it appears that you have not)
There is a lot of disinformation out which ruins the credibility of the facts.
Take a hard look on your own, you will find the subject very interesting. 
What it means, I have not determined. 
However the simple vapor trail explanation is wrong the majority of the time.
(My opinion from many hours of observation over years) 

If your thinking ALL those marks in the sky are vapor trails, one needs to apply a little more "science" to discern.

I have driven professionally over the entire US, and watched chemtrails & vapor trails dawn to dusk.
(Actually chemtrails sprayed at night, become what looks like clouds by the morning commute.) 
The chemtrails hang around and turn into clouds...directly.

True vapor trails (ice crystals) go away in moments to several minutes depending on the atmospheric temperature. 

"It's really that simple"

BM


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## D Coates (Jan 6, 2006)

Tom Sayer was a fictional character. Observations made while driving doe not constitute an investigation. If it's really that simple wouldn't we already control the weather? Woops, here come the black helicopter/conspiracy folks.

This whole subject is a nutty as squirrel droppings and I will give it no more time.


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## brushmouth (Jan 17, 2010)

D Coates said:


> This whole subject is a nutty as squirrel droppings and I will give it no more time.


Well then DON'T, and careful of the door !

C ya

BM


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## tomsawyer (Jun 9, 2010)

brushmouth said:


> Tom Sawyer would have done his own investigation on the subject.
> (it appears that you have not)
> There is a lot of disinformation out which ruins the credibility of the facts.
> Take a hard look on your own, you will find the subject very interesting.
> ...


It is simple really. You claim there is a huge conspiracy, when asked to provide evidence, you give anecdotal stories, which anyone who understands science knows are not to be considered evidence.

Vapor trails can last for hours or days and even turn into clouds. It's well accepted fact among scientists who study the weather and/or the environment. PBS even did a show on it.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sun/contrail.html

Yet, you claim to have "hours of observation experience" watching clouds, and you did not know even the most basic facts about them.

Chemtrails are nonsense to anyone who understands the science.


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## John C (Sep 19, 2010)

kwest said:


> you guys have to much time on your hands. :lpf:


 Opinions are like a55holes. Everybody has one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.


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## mackelby (Dec 5, 2010)

I understand the German government has admitted to it. There excuse has that it skewed radar, so in essence they said it was for security.


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## Stromnessbees (Jan 3, 2010)

I suppose it won't hurt if we all risk looking at the sky occasionally to see what's going on up there. If any of you spots suspicious activity you can post it on this thread and check if others have noticed it as well. Maybe you can even provide a photo.

If there is concrete evidence of clandestine missions we should try to investigate, as any interference with our environment can hurt our bees. Don't forget that bees use the refraction pattern of the atmosphere (ionosphere?) for their navigation. Any interference there could stop them from finding their way home, leading to an empty hive (CCD?).


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## Stromnessbees (Jan 3, 2010)

The more I look into the topic the more I realize that Geoengineering is happening on a large scale and that we should not ignore it if we are concerned about our bees:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=20369

Here Dr. Vermeere's talk about the Case Orange Report:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/debbie...files/21c48df5c5ac11f72ae0fbf58c5cc2ff-2.html


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

I think the chemtrails are closely related to Dihydrogen Monoxide: 

http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html

:ws


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## summer1052 (Oct 21, 2007)

Okay, then. 

How does the H. A. A. R. P. project fit into this chemtrail, changing weather, global warming/cooling, CCD big picture? I'm asking that seriously.

(Google HAARP to learn more.)

t:
Honestly, what with HAARP, aliens in the human bloodlines, the Illuminati infiltrating the Roman church via Opus Dei, the Council on Foreign Relations/Trilateral Commission/Bilderberger Group Cabal instituting a New World Order, and the Rothschilds running the Federal Reserve, I've got more then enough to worry about!  :s 

I'm going to use my psychic powers and predict this thread might soon be moved to the Tailgater Forum. Depends on when Mercury goes retrograde.

Some of us believe all of it. Some of us believe none of it. Some of us pick and choose, and some couldn't care less. But let's keep it civil, please. The strength of our opinions should not be directly connected to our manners.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, than are dreamt of in your philosophy, Horatio . . ."

Summer {wink, wink} 
If you can't look in the mirror and laugh at the person looking back, life can get long and rugged.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

And to think I've been admiring chemtrails pretty much all my life without issue, suddenly they are the reason behind all this bad stuff. inch:


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## arnaud (Aug 2, 2009)

Seriously? Chemtrails?

Gee, no wonder the public sometimes sees us beekeepers as a bunch of kooky guys having fun with insects buzzing around us.

Chemtrails are a conspiracy theory based on nothing but speculation, isolated anecdotes, loony and paranoid types. There is zero scientific data or evidence to support any of those theories. Zero.

Condensation trails are just that. Unless one of you proponent or believer is a scientist with enough background in aeronautics or climatology to support their assertions, please stop spreading myths that have no base, and that are just the product of some misinformed tin foil-hatted types who have no understanding of the science behind condensation trails.

Now let's please get back to beekeeping.


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## ChristopherA (Jul 20, 2010)

Not to say anything bad about chemtrails..

But I was outside taking a smoke this AM and watch 7 planes with trails behind them and I thought of this thread.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

You didn't run and get your umbrella? k


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## Ted Kretschmann (Feb 2, 2011)

Whew!! I will be so glad when spring breaks up north for you guys and gals. So the soothing humming of the bees and a few bee stings will take care of the severe winter blues. I know spring has done wonders for my inner self. TK


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## Stromnessbees (Jan 3, 2010)

D Coates said:


> 75% of posts to this one subject? I smell an axe being ground.


I like reading Beesource, but I only write a post when I feel it's important. So maybe I am grinding an axe here:

After all we expect substances that are spread in our environment to be safe for bees (as well as for humans).

So if there is a major geoengineering project underway, possibly to mitigate climate change, the public should be informed and any chemicals or advanced technologies used should be tested with regards to their environmental impact.

In order to find the cause for CCD and other bee problems we need to know all the factors that might have an influence, or else any current research will be flawed.


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## mac (May 1, 2005)

ChristopherA said:


> Not to say anything bad about chemtrails..
> 
> But I was outside taking a smoke this AM and watch 7 planes with trails behind them and I thought of this thread.


You smoke ?????


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

But what about our precious bodily fluids?? Meet me at Burpleson, we attack at dawn!


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## arnaud (Aug 2, 2009)

Stromnessbees said:


> I like reading Beesource, but I only write a post when I feel it's important. So maybe I am grinding an axe here:
> 
> After all we expect substances that are spread in our environment to be safe for bees (as well as for humans).
> 
> ...


Then inform us with reliable, reputable sources. The OP posted two links from some conspiracy website, and a third one from a content farm that is nothing but speculation.

Chemtrails are science fiction. Period.

Let's focus on the actual dangers we already have to deal with.


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## okaive (Jan 27, 2011)

I will admit that I didn't read all the posts. If you think Chemtrails are bad, now just think of all the planes that have to fuel dump below the required altitude (it does happen, trust me).


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

Ok...having a bit of experience with bio-chemical warfare I think it's time to point out a few things. 

One - Dispersion. From the altitude that these "dumps" are taking place, by the time they would reach the surface there would be so dispersed that their ppm would be at a stage to render them useless. This is why the using "crop dusters" to spread chemicals hasn't been used by terrorist because you would have to fly so low to get a lethal effect that your target pattern would be so small it wouldn't be worth the effort. Lastly, with the jet stream at altitude, you would need an AWAC's flying to calculate where the chem dump would actually land. You could dump over Texas and it could end up in the middle of the Gulf of Mexico. Lots of problem with chemical dispersant from aircraft.

Second - Money. Commercial aircraft fly and everything is gauged on weight. In order to have special holding tanks for these chemicals they would have to have very large systems in place to store thousands of gallons of these chemicals. They weigh a lot. There is no way a commercial flight could hold it passengers, luggage and the amount of chemicals that it would take to leave the vapor trails you see in the sky. The aircraft could not fly. Plus even if they could, who is going to pay for the extra fuel it takes to carry that load? You are talking hundreds of millions of dollars exchanging hands with no one talking about it even if it was possible which it isn't because of the weight and load issues.

Third - You would have to have all sorts of people involved in the process. From the people that would have to load the chemicals in the aircraft and then the pilots that would agree to release them once at altitude. Are you kidding me? And no one is talking about it? 

So the question is...why would you want to use aircraft in the first place? A much easier way would be to drive a tanker up to the water sources and dump them in it. Much cheaper, no need to involve large amounts of people, covert, and you can control the concentration and really target the areas you want to contaminate. 

Hope that helps clear up things.


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## D Coates (Jan 6, 2006)

I can't believe this is still going, much less that I am responding. I'm so embarrassed... Trying to use logic, reasoning, and facts will get you nowhere with some folks. It's like trying to play pool with a lasso. They only want to push their idea with unsupported info and limited personal observations.


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## fish_stix (May 17, 2009)

Have you heard of "Pilots Anonymous?" My name is Michael. I'm a former Navy pilot. Yes, I'm one of those who made serious amounts of contrails in our atmosphere. You see, the products of combustion of hydrocarbon fuel are water, carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide mostly, with a few others in small amounts, and soot. When the atmosphere is cold enough, contains enough water vapor, and a combustion engine contributes more water, and there are particulates available, soot, then you get the formation of ice crystals, also known as contrails. Darn things seem to follow you everywhere some days, other days you couldn't buy a contrail; depends on atmospheric conditions. I note that the woman cited as an authority on the subject of "chemtrails" didn't include her scientific credentials, only that she was a crop loss adjuster for USDA. I doubt that the experience requirements for USDA official crop loss adjuster include a scientific background. In fact, you probably only have to be able to walk, talk and jot down numbers to be fully qualified. There's also the conspiracy thing. Since when has the U.S. Government been able to keep any secrets. During WW2 the Japanese knew we were developing nuke weapons, they just didn't realize we had working copies. If Congress is involved, as one post cited a bill concerning atmospheric and weather research and control, then we know for certain that the big conspiracy would have been aired long ago. You're barking up the wrong tree folks; get a life!


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## Stromnessbees (Jan 3, 2010)

As I indicated in my original post: I am not an expert on this issue, but I am slowly finding more and more evidece that something is drastically wrong in our skies.

Even schoolchildren detect high levels of aluminum in the atmosphere by doing simple tests:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFpS1yVioLM&feature=player_embedded 


And this is the Case Orange Report about Geo-Engineering, which also gives a good insight into the history of such activities:

70 page version: http://saive.com/911/DOCS/Chemtrail-Symposium-Belfort-Group-70Page-Report.pdf

300 page version: http://saive.com/911/DOCS/Chemtrail-Symposium-Belfort-Group-300Page-Report.pdf

(both links found on North Florida Skywatch: http://saive.com/BELFORT.html)


And there is still more on Globalresearch.ca http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=20369


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## mac (May 1, 2005)

.........


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## mac (May 1, 2005)

,,,,,,,,,,,


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## mac (May 1, 2005)

,,,,,,,,,


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## idrisbee (Aug 5, 2003)

Chemtrials and co.
We in Africa, our body mechanism have over the past years built resistance to certain hardships (economic downtrend, Farm chemicals, etc) but our children and their children’s children will fall into deep trouble as a result of what’s happening. In our own little way we are protesting (see my profile photo).
I suggest the following links 

http://www.mieliditalia.it/index.php/il-declino-delle-api/api-ambiente-e-agricoltura/80064

http://www.mieliditalia.it/index.ph...bees-environment-agriculture-a-pesticid/80073



CHECK OUT MY PROFILE PHOTO


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## Stromnessbees (Jan 3, 2010)

At last I found an organisation that is dedicated to take up the fight against chemtrails in a serious manner. :thumbsup:

Lots of good info in this site:
http://agriculturedefensecoalition.org/



> *Agriculture Defense Coalition (ADC)*
> 
> The Agriculture Defense Coalition is dedicated to protecting agriculture, our water supplies, trees, and *pollinators* from a wide variety of experimental weather modification and atmospheric testing programs, toxic chemicals, geoengineering, and other experiments.
> 
> ...


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## frazzledfozzle (May 26, 2010)

Oh for goodness sake give me a break


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## arnaud (Aug 2, 2009)

Stromnessbees said:


> At last I found an organisation that is dedicated to take up the fight against chemtrails in a serious manner. :thumbsup:
> 
> Lots of good info in this site:
> http://agriculturedefensecoalition.org/


Oh come on. She's a local here who has no credentials whatsoever in most of what she talks about. She's got a BA from Sonoma State and that's it. Her organization is a fly-by-night operation. She's a regular guest out there on shows that specialize in conspiracy theories.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Stromnessbees said:


> As I indicated in my original post: I am not an expert on this issue, but I am slowly finding more and more evidece that something is drastically wrong in our skies.


Maybe so, but this is a beekeeping forum. You'll have to join a "sky" forum to continue this discussion.


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