# Mistake after mistake



## eltalia (Jun 12, 2017)

Beesnme said:


> Caught a swarm in a trap that I put only 2 deep drawn out comb in and didn't have a deep body to transfer to and the swarm trap was on roof of chicken coop ....
> (edit)


G'day.
Might I ask why on the roof?
I caught your other post on skyscraper build, I preaume there is a problem with extracting/harvesting honey from those boxes?

Cheers.


Bill


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## Beesnme (Aug 1, 2014)

Thank you Bill for your response. This was my first swarm trap and I used a cardboard nuc box and I had read to put it 8 to 10 feet up so the roof was about 10 feet up. I don't know what skyscraper build is so I'm not sure what the rest of your comment means, could you elaborate?


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## eltalia (Jun 12, 2017)

Beesnme said:


> Thank you Bill for your response. This was my first swarm trap and I used a cardboard nuc box and I had read to put it 8 to 10 feet up so the roof was about 10 feet up.


Having come across this myth many times in local anecdotal discussion, I can still smile. For online folks there should be a http://www.snopes.com/
for BK... in my humble opinion.
A safe looking[1] baited lure/trap at least 2 feet off ground level works.



> I don't know what skyscraper build is so I'm not sure what the rest of your comment means, could you elaborate?


Your post on boxes being too heavy to lift at a height you cannot manage?

l fully empathise with your concern on "squishing" bees, been a pet hate of mine for more years than I care to recall. It goes against the grain of what an apiarist is about, so when the circumstance demands it has always been the brush off and smoke method that allows me to sleep after a particularly difficult "cut-out"/rescue.


Cheers.


Bill


-- 
[1]"hey, this looks good bzzzzzzzzzzzz"


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## Beesnme (Aug 1, 2014)

Oh, thanks for clarifying the swarm trap height. And I get the skyscraper build comment now. Yes, I am trying to learn to have lots of extra supplies on hand and how to keep the hives more manageable. I would love to try a split one of these days but confused on how far away the split needs to be. Yes there is so much conflicting info on beekeeping.


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## eltalia (Jun 12, 2017)

Beesnme said:


> Oh, thanks for clarifying the swarm trap height.


It is a minimum, not a fixed height. Traps have worked at ground level as well as yours worked elevated. Position is a call made on local pests and convienence, I guess. Your choice was driven by what you read, hence my assistance with that 



> Yes, I am trying to learn to have lots of extra supplies on hand and how to keep the hives more manageable.


Supplies are more relavant to your personal end goal in BK, and so vary much from one 'Keep to the other.
As a rough guide;
Keep stored one super of your honey storage type with fully drawn empty comb. Have a spread of developed frames for your brood boxes stored, preferably in a sealed container. That's maybe a half dozen fully drawn aged comb and a half dozen of partially drawn frames, which may or may not contain used brood comb. Where differing type of box construction is used, double that. A spare lid is handy, again, double that where differing box types are used.
Anything else you use in hive constructs should be in use.
As to general management practices.
Not a fan of being in there every other week/day - unless there is trouble brewing - a stable colony is worth a look every worker cycle, so once in three weeks should catch most events. A caveat to that is zones of known disease prevalation. Those require local advice on frequency.
Honey extraction and storage is another arena of personal development, take what works for you from what you read.





> I would love to try a split one of these days but confused on how far away the split needs to be. Yes there is so much conflicting info on beekeeping.


[nodding]
.... much of that only because what some found has worked for them - "worked" being wholly subjective - go on to bleat same as some type of mantra, bewildering at best!
As to new colonies (any)?
Locate all new builds at least one mile from your apiary and any known other. 
Particularly important for quarantine, this past year having experienced an intrusion by SHB from a swarm introduced hastily, I have had to be astute in always adding this step to any future movements.
Often time, resources or simply inconvience pressure one into thinking "just put it over there"... for those times, close any entrance until moving away is able to be done.


Cheers.

Bill


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## Northwest PA Beekeeper (Mar 28, 2012)

We all make mistakes.

My mistake this year was placing a cardboard nuc with one frame of drawn comb on a portable deer stand.

It worked good - up in the air, no critters would mess with it, etc . . . . . . . . . until it got bees in it.

I don't like heights to begin with - but climbing up an almost straight up ladder with a suit on is not fun. The real fun began when I got to the top and tried to figure out how you pick up the box with only one hand. I got it as close to the edge of the stand and tried to balance it on my hand one. Down it went.

It was a small swarm - so not much weight and no damage to anything - even their new comb they had attached to the roof of the cardboard box. I did a transfer right there - and left the cardboard nuc box about 4' high - resting on the ladder support.

But afterwards it was going through my mind "What were you thinking that THAT was a good idea?!?"


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## Beesnme (Aug 1, 2014)

Yup, that sounds like me!


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## Beesnme (Aug 1, 2014)

Ok bare with me, the saga continues... so my relocation of the hive was about 300 feet not one mile. The next morning all looked well but I noticed about 50 bees down at original location with no place to go. So I took the cardboard box I originally caught the swarm in back down each morning and would bring it up in the evening to the hive. I did this go two days. Tonight when I got home from work there wer sooo many bees around the cardboard box I thought I caught another swarm or I was having drift from one of my other 3 hives. So this time I filled the box with empty frames. We will see what happens. Crazy stuff


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## eltalia (Jun 12, 2017)

@beesnme

:chuckles:
Them thar bees will be thinkin' "musical chairs... whaaa_da"...!!
:zober:

You're only catching - or caught - the bees you can see, there will bee many more inside boxes, or dead as being treated as invaders.

Don't know on this one how to advise you best, having never come across such a situation.
I guess - it is a guess - bottom line is cut your losses and take the relocated colony (as it is) offsite?

Lucks to your bees ;-)


Cheers.

Bill


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## Beesnme (Aug 1, 2014)

Thank you Bill, I will. But here is what I wonder. When you move a hive even though it's so dark you can hardly see what you are doing without a flashlight, there always seem to be many homeless bees hanging out for a few days in the old spot. How do you deal with this? It makes me sad. Second question: How does one know if there is a "flow" on vs a dearth?


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## eltalia (Jun 12, 2017)

Beesnme said:


> Thank you Bill, I will. But here is what I wonder. When you move a hive even though it's so dark you can hardly see what you are doing without a flashlight, there always seem to be many homeless bees hanging out for a few days in the old spot. How do you deal with this? It makes me sad.


Myself, personaly?
As sad/wasteful as it is to sometimes leave scores of bees behind , "for the greater good applies".

In many years I have only witnessed two such events.
The first in those early days of migratory placements when my attitude was "throw them on the truck, she'll be right" came unstuck after being "rear-ended" at traffic lights. The doer vehicle being a total writeoff the prime concerns were to get it off the road, restack busted open boxes and get out of there. Where those thousands of bees ended up had to be bee-heaven as no policemen were at all interested.
My next truck was a pantech - a soft-sided fully enclosed rig with pallet loading.
The other event, in that same year I recollect, played out just as we were maybe half unloaded into a new field placement. A cropduster dropped out of the sky and began spraying the pumpkin patch. In error, as I later was told. 
As I had already begun opening hives up the hurried reloading left scores of bees flying around in a dither. Still in the area, balled up and buzzing three days later, I doubt any survived assimilation with any colony.
I learnt(ed) to leave opening up as the _last_ job, making fences and water drips (setting out) the first after unloading.

Point being it is all about management, decision making, with the best outcome for the bees foremost.
And yes, some lessons are delivered hard.

Getting back on topic?
Prepare your boxes for transit in daylight, leaving an easily closed gate open which can be shut tight in a single move mostly by feel, no torches needed. And try to get all that done the day before to not confuse bees with "new stuff" on their home at the time of moving, they will hang around and watch.

Things to be of priority in preparation may be;
Make sure no screened openings can be chewed through. Bees will chew through aluminum window screen in no time flat when caged. 
Always use a tensioned hive strapping method, even on nucs. These devices come in many forms today.
In transport think about the box(s) as you would a small child today, strap them in.
Plan your trip, making sure those where you are going know you are on the road. Most important, have your bee working gear with you and very handy to reach.

Well after dark, close your entrance (s) and load the boxes.
If you have any bearding happening, even a small amount, abandon
to reorganise after you have achieved a clean entrance at night.
This could mean another box on top or some empty drawn comb added to the brood chamber.
Trying to smoke any stragglers in usually does not end well, and is work you do not want to be doing at night.



> Second question: How does one know if there is a "flow" on vs a dearth.


One word - observation.
The first part of which is what many a BK develops, a close interest in botanical events. I have lost count of the number of near misses I have had
whilst driving past what could be bloom or may be a leaf colour change.
You just got to look, force of habit. The horn blasts and screeching of brakes brings one back 
So, know what flora bees take to is coming out, where and when.

The second you do not need to always be in the boxes looking for, it can be done, is done, by watching bees work at the entrance.
Variations in traffic during a full day may not be a true indicator, some flora close up as the sun climbs into it's zenith, some open only in the afternoon cool.
So pick your time. 
Here right now, locally, it is between 0900hrs for pollen and nectar enmasse, and again at 1530hrs for less pollen but masses more nectar... and the newest foragers are doing their orientation flights for the next day from hive to field. So very active around the hive.
The activity in the morning is pumpkin and rockmelon, the afternoons it is mango as the newest flowers open. Mango is loaded with nectar.
In a weeks time it will be full-on all day as the Lychee comes in with another huge pollen drop.
Just a week ago, nader/nothing. A combination of low temps and rain, along with maybe a scarcity of blooms, and they stayed home. You would swear the hive was abandoned, until the mower went by 

No apologies for the rant... you picked my fav.topic 

Cheers.

Bill


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## Beesnme (Aug 1, 2014)

Ok, I'll watch closely! Where are you located? Curious


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## eltalia (Jun 12, 2017)

LAT.18 Australia - aka "Great Green Way"

http://greatgreenwaytourism.com/maps-in-the-great-green-way-region/

... stay safe bee calm ;-)


Cheers.


Bill


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