# Would you be ticked off if



## Jesus_the_only_way (Mar 17, 2006)

Well I wouldn't be happy.
It makes swarm management a bit more important!


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## IndianaHoney (Jun 5, 2006)

Just make sure you split any hive that's getting ready to swarm. Make sure you give the old queen some open comb when you split.

I would agree that putting a swarm box across the street is a little bit "in your face". It doesn't make for a good relationship with your fellow beekeepers. If the owner of said box lives on that property and already has some hives, then I could see his reasoning. He may be trying to capture swarms from his own hives.

If the owner of that swarm box has hives, you could just put out your own swarm box.


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## Beemaninsa (Jun 9, 2004)

No. IMO swarms are free game.


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

This scenario has been discussed many times here on Beesource. Discussions have gotten a bit heated. The main issue seems to revolve around whether or not you feel you own the swarms that issue from your hives. There is also the (erroneous in my opinion) perspective that the presence of swarm traps in the vicinity of a hive somehow encourages that hive to swarm. Then there are the minor (in my opinion) issues of what's ethical and what's not, getting permission, etc.

It's all largely irrelevant to me and not an issue worth getting upset about. The solution is to put your own swarm traps out and get on with business. It's my responsibility to keep my hives from swarming, or not, and the presence of a swarm trap, my own or someone else's in the vicinity, has nothing to do with it. I also believe swarms tend to move further from the hives they've issued from rather than closer i.e., I'd expect a swarm to ultimately take up residence a mile or more from their old home, rather than moving right next door. Perhaps other folks have an opinion on this question?

I also suspect many hives swarm when the beekeeper isn't around to see it and they're never the wiser. I suspect some of mine have and I *know* one of them has, I saw the swarm cells and I watched a virgin queen emerge. Swarming isn't a death sentence for the hive that swarms by any means and unless you happen to notice the break in brood rearing, or observe that your marked queen is suddenly gone, you're likely to never know it swarmed. Depending on when the hive swarms you might or might not notice an impact on your honey production.

I am reminded of one beekeeper's approach to swarm control that I've read about- book a 3 week vacation on a cruise ship for the month of May.

So the real questions become, if a swarm issues from your hive in the middle of the woods and nobody is around to see it, did it really swarm? And if it did really swarm, who "owns" the swarm? And the ultimate unanswerable question, does it make any noise?


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

If the trap is placed in an open obvious location then I think that it's a pretty tacky move. Not a good way to make friends in the neighborhood.

However, with that said, if my colonies are throwing swarms and I am not making splits or aggressively implementing swarm control methods, then it makes sense to me that this person should have a right to capture it rather than letting it set up its home in the wild. I am going to lose the swarm either way, unless I put out my own traps. 

But, they should at least set their trap up out of sight away from your apiary and keep the peace.


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## David Stewart (Jan 22, 2005)

I have no problem with it. I didn't ask their permission when I put hives on my property and I certainly didn't seek permission for my bees to forage in their yard so who am I to tell them what they can do on their side of the fence? Besides, if I do my job correctly and prevent swarms-they will soon get discouraged and move on to greener pastures. How many have had a swarm move into empty equipment in their yards? Did you travel to the neighbor and offer their bees back to them?

David


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

There is alot of "assuming" in the responses. It did not say who owned the property, whether it was the one who placed the trap, etc.

I guess I would ask the property owner myself if he placed the traps. If he knew nothing about it, I would be taking them down. After all, I know most of the nieghbors to my properties, and they respect me, as I respect them. And the farms that I have hives placed, know thier nieghbors, etc.

It goes back to the fundemantal question of how it got there. For me, without knowing about it or the property owner knowing, I ask myself "What mentality of a person does it take to "target" another persons apiary for collecting swarms from my hives. He did not ask me, he did not ask my blessing, he did not know if I have my own boxes out, he did not know if I would be offended.

Certainly any additional swarm boxes as close as across the street, does compete with my boxes. Studies have shown that bees will normally travel 300 to 900 meters to select a new site. This of course takes into account that ample sites are available for them to choose from. With dwindling natural sites, bees will use whats available. They may go a mile, they may go 10 feet. Certainly additional boxes in the area decreases the chances of your own boxes capturing them.

Many things are "legal", and people have a right to do many things. I am very leery even if I have a "right", so as not to offend another, or somehow be percieved as stepping on one's toes. I personally may have a right to place swarms across the street of another persons apiary, but I would never do it myself. It bothers me when the next person could not see the potential bad will, and would proceed to target another persons yard.

Of course if the person across the street owns bees, or its the land owner himself is placing the boxes, I see no problems.

Most of these past discussions have been in the context of one beekeeper targeting another beekeeper, without regards to property ownership.


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

This gets to the root of "being a good neighbor". "Good" is broadly defined. Years ago, we had apple trees that hung over a fence into our neighbors yard. They cheerfully picked up and picked off loads of apples. They even baked apple pies or crisps for us once in a while. But, when deer began eating the apples, and then their shrubs, we were accused of luring the deer with our apple trees. No, we didn't agree to pay for damages but it certainly put a chill on the relationship.

I wouldn't be ticked off but I'd feel that my neighbor was trying to leech off of my resources without talking about it. My measure of their character would be reduced but I'd also remember that bees are wild things. If, in spite of my intervention, they decide to swarm and ultimately become "kept" by someone else...even my neighbor...than that's the way things are. 

I'd rather have a swarm catching neighbor than a swarm killing one.


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

>Years ago, we had apple trees that hung over a fence into our neighbors yard. They cheerfully picked up and picked off loads of apples.

Interesting. They were within their rights oddly enough as your tree was encroaching on their property. They would have been entitled to cut off anything hanging over the property line, without your permission. I'm not saying you're not entitled to be chagrined, at the very least, especially when they turn around and harrass you about deer being attracted by the apples they were helping themselves to. That took nerve!

>I'd rather have a swarm catching neighbor than a swarm killing one.

Amen.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

>>>"I'd rather have a swarm catching neighbor than a swarm killing one."


I'd rather have a good nieghbor and have one that wouldn't do either of the options. In rationalizing one against the other, it appears that one could be giving excuses not only for the nieghbor, but perhaps self-justification for one's own rationalization. I would not do either one. No rationalization needed.


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## sierrabees (Jul 7, 2006)

While we talk about good relationships, lets consider our own responsability along that line. If as a beekeeper I fail to manage my hive in a manner that my neighbors don't have to put up with frequent swarms, why shouldn't they allow someone to put up swarm traps. Remember, the swarms that issue from our hives don't have to take up residence in our empty boxes, or hollow trees. They might easily decide the best location is in the wall of a neighbors house or in his tool shed. If I found a swarm box across the street from one of my yards I would think this was a strong hint to get my act together and work a little harder on my swarm prevention management.


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## Jeffzhear (Dec 2, 2006)

The reason I asked the question, was because I built 15 swarm catching boxes this winter and had been thinking about where to put them. Deep down, I felt like it would be unethical to target another beekeepers apiary without them knowing, and on the flip side depending on the exact circumstance it could in-fact bee legal. In the past I have only placed swarm boxes in my yards, never anywhere else, so this winter I decided I was going to branch out come next bee season.

I have found that beekeepers, for the most part are great people. As a matter of fact I have never personally met a beekeeper I didn't like. Knowing this, combined with my upbringing, I just struggled with the issue. I even thought, how would I feel if another beekeeper came to me and asked me if they could put swarm boxes in some proximity to me. It left me with an uneasy feeling; one that was like, "they are trying to rip me off." I thought, am I being selfish; maybe I am.

Oh, I apologize if I created a stir, I had no idea about previous posts as I am new here, as of Dec. '06. I was thinking of doing a search, but it seems everytime I try the function it doesn't work for me. Maybe I need to wait longer when I try searching...it just seems to get caught in an endless loop.

I suppose that I will just ask my rural, non-beekeeper friends if I can stick one swarm box in each of their back yards, and have them keep an eye on them for me and call me if there is any activity. 

Thanks for all your thoughts. Best Regards, Jeff


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## Sarge (Jun 26, 2006)

Setting traps across from a bee yard seems a little cheeky to me. A more subtle effort would be more polite.
I remove swarms as a part of my business. One home owner has paid several hundred dollars over the years to have hives removed from their home. The swarms have nested in eaves, attics, walls, and even under the hood of a tractor.
There are, to the best of my knowledge, no beeks within miles of them. But there is an outyard with a half dozen hives a half mile away.
Traditionaly a beek was to "claim" a swarm from his hives by alerting his neighbors and making his ownership known. Unclaimed swarms were free for the taking if the landowner permited. 
I have never looked for the beek and asked them to remove a swarm. We aren't talking about stray cattle here, but about something more along the lines of the apple tree mentioned before.
If you wish to keep them take care they don't fall across the fence so to speak.


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## naturebee (Dec 25, 2004)

--I built 15 swarm catching boxes this winter and had been thinking about where to put them. Deep down, I felt like it would be unethical to target another beekeepers apiary without them knowing,--(Jeff)

Consider this:

When buying queens, it is a good practice to get references, and do your research to find the best stock.

What makes another beekeepers hives so desirable that one would want to target his swarms? Are they acclimated to your area? Winter survival? Are they mite resistant? Do we know anything about his bees? Is it worth the effort to target these bees if there are better bees to be had? Are they being supported by the use of treatments to be kept alive?

Consider also, that beekeepers that are most vigilant about the health and performance of his bees would likely also be more prone to have some of the better stock,,, but these beekeepers as vigilant as they ares would also likely be implementing effective swarm control measures. (These beekeepers would not get mad if you told them you were targeting their swarms, because they are confident of their abilities)

Conversely, a sloppy beekeeper that is not capable of implementing effective swarm control, IMO are also more likely to have an ineffective breeding and selection program. (These beekeepers with incompetent abilities would tend to get mad if you told them you would be trapping their swarms)









What you could do is: Tell the beekeeper straight out you will be trapping his swarms, if he gets mad, that may indicate he as poor management practices and his bees would reflect this. If he doesnt get mad, and even gets a ladder and helps you put up some traps. Then this would be more suggestive of a beekeeper with good management practices and good bees reflecting this.









IMO, consideration to target remote ferals would be a good idea for the bees that are more resistant and best acclimated to your area which is a prerequisite for long term sustainability and productivity.


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## John Russell (Aug 8, 2003)

Why get upset? Just check the trap every day, and reclaim any swarm of yours you find. Afterwards, be sure to leave a thank you note for the loan of the trap with a jar of honey inside.
If I were using me beekeeping powers for evil, I'd just hose the trap down with bee-go.
But that would be bad....mmmmmmKay?
(Apoligies to South Park)
 

J.R


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

I've always been of a mind that swarms were fair game, in a sort of "losers weepers, finders keepers" sort of way. If you can't keep the bees in your boxes then too bad, ha ha.
But there are situations when it pushes the envelope. We had an increase yard which we tried to run with too few boxes and had quite a bit of swarming there. The landowner actually put boxes right next to our yard and caught many of these swarms, he admits to over 10 of them. While some swarms don't want to settle too close these sure didn't have any problem with the neighborhood, just the crowded conditions we didn't alleviate in time.
While some might be outraged, and, as someone else noted, it was a bit cheeky and in-your-face on his part, I figure these bees were going to swarm no matter what he did and they were better off in his boxes than on a fencepost somewhere or in someone's house eaves. Either way we would have lost them if we didn't happen to show up and find them ourselves.
Another situation, we have a small beekeeper on land adjacent to one of our larger yards, he's about 1/2 mile from our yard. He made sure we were OK with this and now jokes about having smarm boxes on the corner nearest our beeyard, hoping to catch swarms of ours. I say, more power to him, at least any swarms find a good home.
Moral of the story, if you want the bees to stay home better keep them happy.
Sheri


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## Ruben (Feb 11, 2006)

Could it be the landowners way of making sure your swarm does not end up in his house? Have you asked who put it there?


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Cartman er, I mean John, 
If I was using my beekeeping powers for evil, I would toss a few frames laced with some AFB along the road near his apiary. Or perhaps some sugar syrup laced with poison, or perhaps lighting up the sky with a midnight apiary bon-fire, or perhaps dumping some.....boy this could be fun....


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Sheri, Obviously if the next land owner over wants to do some trapping, I think all can agree, there is nothing wrong with that. I think most of these discussions, and yes this(thread) also, involves making swarm traps, driving through the country side, and targeting other beekeepers known locations. Thats the so-called "cheeky" part.

NOTICE...If you happen to buy the place next to mine, I'll help you set up the traps. If you drive in from outside the area, I'll burn your traps. And the next time you go to check them, don't be surprised if you accidentally drive over some nails.....


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

And if you think there is no danger to your operation, think about some people's equipment being brought in from an unknown origin, a nuc box perhaps laced with some old comb as bait, and your bees visiting.

I have a breeding operation and do not need other bringing thier potential AFB equipment, and targeting my livelihood, all due to a swarm.

I agree with Joe. Its hard to believe some of the effort some spend in capturing unknown genetics, unknown deseases, and unknown bad will from the so-called beekeeeping community.


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

I am constantly amazed at all the bad will and hatred that so readily pops up from lack of communication. Just a few minutes talking with the beek would most likely obtain an invite to set your traps, and maybe even someone to call you when one is inhabited. I would not hesitate to ask, fully expecting a welcome, but would never set one without talking first. It's the only decent thing to do.


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

I'd be the first to get the guy a ladder and help him put up the trap.

Over the years, I've caught literally dozens of swarms that did not originate from my bees. Most were feral, but some very obviously were not. I didn't question the source of the swarms when I caught them, why should I question someone else for trying to catch a swarm. On the other hand, I have never knowingly located a swarm trap near someone elses bees.

Darrel Jones


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

It's a free country. If my bees want to leave then I wish him luck.


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## jdagpatton (Apr 4, 2006)

I kinda find it hard to believe this is an issue for beeks. If my bees swarm.....tough luck on my part. Once they swarm onto someone else's property they are not my bees anymore. Catch them, kill them, do what you want. If you are willing to stake claims to them, then maybe you should be willing to pay for any damages they might cause if they locate in someone's wall. But if that was the case I am sure they would be "ferals" and not from your hives. Then how do you know they are yours if the make it to the swarm trap? So if we are willing to claim swarms as our own for our own gain, we should be willing to claim them when they are a nuisance.


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

>>>And if you think there is no danger to your operation, think about some people's equipment being brought in from an unknown origin<<<

I see this as a different, if related, issue. I can certainly understand this as we have had migrators just plop a semi of bees down within 1/4 mile of our then permanent yards. We didn't like this one bit. Not only were our bees exposed to whatever those bees had, they competed for forage with ours. As we expanded into migration ourselves, contact with foreign bees was a given.

Now I figure it is a rare location indeed that doesn't come into some contact with migrating bees, and/or hobbyist bees. Indeed, our bees mix with thousands of other colonies in California. In addition, we live in a rural location and it amazes me the folks that keep a hive or two of bees, often replacing them every year as they die off, getting the replacements from various sources and suppliers, and yes, probably some of our swarms . Some haven't a clue what a healthy colony should look like. Maybe some of them blame our migrating bees for their inability to keep their hives alive. It is easy to blame the bees from an unknown origin, when they should be looking at their own management practices.

If you are in an isolated location, trying to protect your bees from outside contaminants and/or genetics may be a difficult cause but I suppose one worth fighting if there is a reasonable chance of success. Seems like it would be a more and more difficult thing to do.

Having said all that, I agree with those who can't understand why one would go to such effort, in such an organized way, to capture swarms of unknown origins. Seems to me it might be easier to advertise that you will do swarm removal. Bet you get better results and generate much more good will in this manner. If I wanted to set traps near a beekeeper, I'd notify them of my intentions, make sure they didn't have their own traps set, make sure they were OK with it. If they were not OK with it, I wouldn't be either.
Sheri


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## sierrabees (Jul 7, 2006)

It's funny what a little conversation can do. I mentioned to a friend of mine who keeps a couple hundred hives that I was going to set some traps out in the forest around my area and he invited me to put two or three in his yard. He said at least two swarms a year settle there. I didn't take advantage of the offer because my goal is to find "feral" bees that have a few generations of living on their own.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Sheri, I agree with what you said. It is difficult to isolate a breeding yard with no outside influences. With that said, there are some things I do.

One..know the beekeepers around you. I worked with the inspector when I first started, and found out who had bees near my yards. I did this also by being involved with the local clubs and asking questions. It also pays to be a good nieghbor. I am rather certain that one of my yards is isolated from another beekeeper of at least two miles. The other main yard has two beekeeepers within a mile. One has 20 hives, and the other has 6.

Two...make sure they have the genetics that you desire. I can't make them go away, but I can offer queens, market my own, and influence what genetics they have in thier yards. My bees afterall probably mate with some bees from these hives, no matter how many drone colonies I establish.

three...Make sure they are registered and inspected. Both of my close nieghbors were already registered. I just needed to make sure they were inspected. Not hard to do.  I no doubt know who the next inspector will be for my area, as I helped recruit him. Another....  I think asking that he inspect yearly these other locations would be no big deal, and I'll probably ride along for the fun..  

Its not hard to control your genetics, know your nieghbors, and have a game plan. Thats why the thought of some guy from across the county that I have no clue about, targets my apairy with swarm boxes, and potential old comb as bait, and does not advise me of his intentions, I could have a bug up my butt. It is mentioned in many books and many converstaions here on beesoucre, about using old comb as bait. I don't want anyones old comb anywhere near my operation. Period.


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## Barry Digman (May 21, 2003)

"If you drive in from outside the area, I'll burn your traps."

For our new members, please do not take this as standard operating practice of beekeepers. Tresspassing and wanton destruction of another person's property is considered very bad form, winking icons notwithstanding.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Yes, coyote, I guess we should assume that those reading these words don't understand that these conversations are each persons views, attitudes and "operating procedure". I assumed that people read the words for what they are, and just figured they knew not to cast it in stone as law or procedure for everyone to follow. Thank you for that much needed clarification.

But since your at it, its nice to also see that some do not display the gall and audacity in targeting other beekeepers beeyards. Thats not standard operating procedure either. But lets not focus on that. Lets focus on some sentence taken out of context, and not withstanding the little winkie. 

I personally know my neighbors. They are called friends also. And if its not them placing the traps, as under the circumstances that I outlined earlier and detailed broader than one little sentence, taken out of context by coyote, then you can rest assure I will remove them. It could be considered abandoned equipment, placed by a tresspasser. Funny that I would be the one called the tresspasser in coyote's view. I don't think my nieghbors would call it that.

Perhaps some do not have the communcations skill, the nieghborly communications with those living around you, or the ability to actually strike up a conversation, even once a trap has been found. I know my nieghbors. They know what I do with bees. I look out for them, and they for me. I can rest assure that any traps found across the street would not be my nieghbors. They will be removed after contacting the landowner. They will be burned. It is not tresspassing, and it is not wanton destruction.


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## naturebee (Dec 25, 2004)

Just to add a hypothetical twist to the discussion:

What about targeting drones of another beekeepers operation?

What if mating nucs were placed near to someones Apiary to mate with their drones, in affect, stealing the beekeepers hard work? Are free flying drones up for grabs also?


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## Craig W. (Feb 26, 2006)

I agree with MB. Its like someone fishing next to you. We have to be civil, I would go and put one next to his on the rightaway, if there is one, or put one in the direction of his that way of your bees swarm you have a chance of getting them first. But according to Walt if we practice good bee management we can prevent swarms.


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## Barry Digman (May 21, 2003)

Again, and especially for the newbies...

Do not burn another man's property. 

There's a reason beekeeping is called the gentle craft. I don't think you'll find the burning of someone's else's stuff recommended in the literature as a reasonable management practice. Find out what the situation is and then work it out. You don't want to burn out some kid who got all excited about trapping his or her first swarm and simply didn't understand the ground rules.


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## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

"Another....  I think asking that he inspect yearly these other locations would be no big deal, and I'll probably ride along for the fun..  " -BjornBee

My bees are all registered with the state, and I've authorized inspectors to go ahead and check them. I have no problem with that. If another beekeeper showed up with an inspector, though, I'd resent it. Especially if I perceived that that other beekeeper might have some vested interested in how the inspection went.

I don't go along to oversee inspections on other beekeepers' hives, and I'd raise a stink about "conflicts of interest" if a state inspector brought another beekeeper along to an inspection of my hives, whether or not I got along with the other beekeeper.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Kieck, 
First, the state has a ride along program, as long as the owner of the apiary is notified and has no problem with it. Second, as I have already stated, I know these other beekeepers. They are my nieghbors, and I know them, and they know me. To assume ill-will, or some conflict of interest is wrong. These people see the inspection process as informative, educational, and worthwhile. One of things that I always do, is schedule it so the beekeeper can be present for the inspection. 95% of my inspections has the beekeeper present. Not becuase of mistrust or conflict of interest, but from a positive angle.

I could care less if another beekeeper was riding along with an inspector, and using the opportunity to learn something. I see no reason to be resentful as you state. My yards are open for all to see. Its part of my marketing and clearly states on promotional items, that anyone wanting to drop by is more than welcome. I have various groups, homeschoolers, individuals, etc., and even throw a yearly picnic that invites anyone who wants to attend. My beeyards are no big secret, and I have nothing to hide.

What would you assume, that would make you automatically resentful? (Beyond them not notifying you.) I did not consider that, but we do things perhaps differently here.


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## RonS (Dec 28, 2004)

BjornBee,

I am not able to decide if your posts were in jest, or serious. If serious, I ask how you would feel if your neighbor did the same things to your hives? Poisoning or sabotaging someone elses property is criminal. When bees swarm from your hives and leave your property, they are free and belong to no one. I chose to believe that you were only joking.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Ron, Please read my posts in thier entirety. I have stated, that I would be more than happy to help a neighbor place swarm traps. I have stated that I would seek the identity of any swarm traps found. I stated that I look out for my neighbors, know them well, call them friends....and they do the same. This among many other statements.

The underlining basis for these discussions is "what do you feel about some guy coming in from out of the area, placing swarm traps without notifying anyone, targeting another beekeeper, and so on. This thread was based on this same logic. It did not say about asking the beekeeper being targeted, did not say whether permission was going to be sought to place traps on someone else's property, or any of the other good nieghbor things that I think would be best. In these type discussions, and most recently, comments of hanging them so nobody knows about them. Or painting them camo colors. Or some other means of doing it as they say "cheeky".

I have stated clearly, that an adjacent property owner has every right to place traps. I have no problem with that. I never said anything about burning my neighbors equipment. Except the "If I were to use my evil beekeeping powers" comment in response to John's comment, they are serious. That particular post was for comic value and I assumed that most would get it. Are you going to openly ask John about his comment of spraying a trap with bee-go? Or did you get that as "fun" and not to be taken serious, yet my pointed follow-up comment was to be considered serious. Hmm.

I'll state again, as this is the secenario asked by some from time to time. If I see swarm traps targeting my apiary, and after checking with my nieghbors it has been determined to be unauthorized traps on my or my neighbors property, they will be taken down. Perhaps I can elaborate a bit here.... If they are new, they are mine. If they contain old comb, they are burned. Why is that so hard to understand. 

The scenario first given from Jeff was from the seeing traps "across the street, hanging in a tree". First I know who lives across the street. After letting my neighbor know, the traps would be history. If you don't know your neighbor that well, maybe you should try harder. 

If these discussions started as "what do you think about approaching other beekeepers to ask permission to place traps' or "What do you think about asking property owners near beekeeping operations", then perhaps the conversation would go in a more clear route.

But I see most of these questions as someone making a bunch of traps, targeting other beekeepers, placing them on property they have no idea who owns, and somehow being sneaky about it. Jeff was not being sneaky, I'll give him that. But he said "deep down" he did not feel right targeting another beekeeper without them knowing. Jeff would be a good nieghbor. Jeff has that gut feeling. A feeling that comes about caring for others, and caring how other percieves one's self.


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## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

"First, the state has a ride along program, as long as the owner of the apiary is notified and has no problem with it." -BjornBee

Ah, that puts a different spin on it. So far as I know, our state does not have a "ride-along program." If such a program does exist here, it's unofficial.

I read this statement that you made:

"Make sure they are registered and inspected. Both of my close nieghbors were already registered. I just needed to make sure they were inspected. Not hard to do.  " -BjornBee

and believed you were requesting inspections of your beekeeping neighbors. Now, if someone requests that my bees are inspected (as they have the right to do), and a state inspector shows up (as he may or may not do, depending on his judgement and schedule), and one of my beekeeping neighbors comes along, I'd begin wondering about conflicts of interest.

If someone -- especially someone from farther away -- were to show up as a "ride-along," and I believed he was learning about beekeeping or training to be an inspector, I'd feel differently.

But the idea that any other beekeeper could, in essence, show up to inspect my bees at any time bothers me. I've got nothing to hide, but I don't care for the idea that any other beekeeper could simply request that my colonies be inspected, then request a "ride-along," and wind up "inspecting" my colonies.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

>>>and believed you were requesting inspections of your beekeeping neighbors. 

Kieck, I was not requesting inspections upon my neighbors. As a state bee inspector, I am doing my job. Nothing wrong with that.


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## Ruben (Feb 11, 2006)

I think I read Virginia laws one time that said you own your swarm as long as you don't loose site of it. I will se if I can find that again.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Are free flying drones up for grabs also?

Or can you sue because their drones mated with your purebred queens...


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## sierrabees (Jul 7, 2006)

I guess if we need something to get mad about, we should all read the thread about Paramount's latest tactics. Makes a stray trap near one's yard seem pretty inconsequential.


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## David Stewart (Jan 22, 2005)

Sierra,
I agree completely.

[ January 30, 2007, 11:50 AM: Message edited by: David Stewart ]


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## RonS (Dec 28, 2004)

Sierra,

Not on topic, but... Yup, I read that article. I try to look at both sides.  In that article, it said that Paramount threatened to sue neighboring beekeepers for allowing their bees to trespass into Paramount's orchard. I know that beekeepers sue for neighboring farmers' overspray of pesticides. Seems the same thing. I have problems suing a beekeeper whose bees and/or use of their property for that purpose predated Paramount's planting of Clementines. If, however, a beekeeper purposely placed hives at or near the fence, or even reasonable proximity to the orchard, and with knowledge of the damage caused, then the beek intended those bees to trespass and should be liable for damage caused.

As to the topic of this thread, I again assert that if a swarm leaves your property or yard, and flies over the fence, that swarm is no longer yours. The swarm trap did not encourage the swarming. The swarming was due to bad management, or just plain nature. The trap was just a potential homesite, often temporary. It is likely that the trapper knows that bees swarm and that the neighbor has a hive(s) or yard. So what.
Bees differ from other agricultural animals in that a fence will not contain them. A cow may knock down or jump a fence (longhorns) but a cow can be contained and is susceptible to clear identification. Absent a DNA screen, that swarm may not be from your yard. Ok, I'm done.


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## RonS (Dec 28, 2004)

Sierra,

Not on topic, but... Yup, I read that article. I try to look at both sides. In that article, it said that Paramount threatened to sue neighboring beekeepers for allowing their bees to trespass into Paramount's orchard. I know that beekeepers sue for neighboring farmers' overspray of pesticides. Seems the same thing. I have problems suing a beekeeper whose bees and/or use of their property for that purpose predated Paramount's planting of Clementines. If, however, a beekeeper purposely placed hives at or near the fence, or even reasonable proximity to the orchard, and with knowledge of the damage caused, then the beek intended those bees to trespass and should be liable for damage caused.

As to the topic of this thread, I again assert that if a swarm leaves your property or yard, and flies over the fence, that swarm is no longer yours. The swarm trap did not encourage the swarming. The swarming was due to bad management, or just plain nature. The trap was just a potential homesite, often temporary. It is likely that the trapper knows that bees swarm and that the neighbor has a hive(s) or yard. So what.
Bees differ from other agricultural animals in that a fence will not contain them. A cow may knock down or jump a fence (longhorns) but a cow can be contained and is susceptible to clear identification. Absent a DNA screen, that swarm may not be from your yard. Ok, I'm done.


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