# How do those with tall hives get their supers off safely?



## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

Have you ever seen the pictures of Canadian hives stacked 20 to 25 feet of all deep supers. I guess they hire a strong young person that is not too smart.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

AmericasBeekeeper said:


> I guess they hire a strong young person that is not too smart.


I'm not young, but I guess I fit the rest of your criteria.


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

Michael, how often do you check the brood pattern in those tall hives? lol.


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## [email protected] (May 12, 2010)

Throw me in that briar patch!


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I have backed up to hives so I could stand on the tailgate to get to the top super. I took honey off once for a friend who had some really tall hives. Once enough supers were taken off we put a cover back on and worked the one next to it until it got short enough to work from the ground.

I also know beekeepers who lay tall hives down on their backs and break the brood chambers off of the rest of the hive. Then the honey supers are worked. Two beekeepers lay the hive down.


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## beyondthesidewalks (Dec 1, 2007)

I've tried the tail gate method before. One time I backed a little too close to the hive and knocked it over. Oops. Big mess.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

A ladder is rough. If you have it in front of you facing the ladder you're too far back to keep your balance. If you turn around, the weight of the super is too far in front of you and you can't keep your balance. If you hold it straight over your head, of course, you get honey all over you...

That's why I moved all my hives down to 3 1/2" off the ground...


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

That 25 foot tall hive reminds me of when I was once icefishing with my father and we pulled up a coleman lantern we had lost the year before. The funny thing was that it was still lit! Well, if you cut that hive down to 10 or 12 feet tall, I will blow out my lantern.


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## Nantom670 (Jul 29, 2011)

I was thinking along those lines also. My daddy use to sing a little song to me, it might be so for all I know, but it sounds like a lie to me!:no:


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## tommyt (Aug 7, 2010)

Vance G said:


> That 25 foot tall hive reminds me of when I was once icefishing with my father and we pulled up a coleman lantern we had lost the year before. The funny thing was that it was still lit! Well, if you cut that hive down to 10 or 12 feet tall*, I will blow out my lantern*.


With it being so wet, I wouldn't do it, you may never get it lit again


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## alfredd (Jul 24, 2011)

Our Canadian 25 ft. hives are quite a challenge until you get a system going. In the winter we get so much snow that we can keep stacking the supers while wearing snowshoes. In the summer a trampoline helps to get the supers off the top.


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## Bee Bliss (Jun 9, 2010)

Hire Sasquatch.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

A very effective argument against 8 frame hives. :lookout:



Michael Palmer said:


> I'm not young, but I guess I fit the rest of your criteria.


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## [email protected] (May 12, 2010)

We usually set up a tower crane and then swing them right onto the rail cars.(each yard has its own railroad system) We have set up a plant in each yard and then pumped it through 48" pipelines directly to port and onto the tankers. The problem is that Halliburtin has been so busy in the Mid East that they dont have time to run any pipelines for us for a while. I guess that is for the best, China is mad at me for cutting thier prices anyway. :lpf:


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

Thats unbelievable Adam! You are after all not even in Canada!


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## Tia (Nov 19, 2003)

I used to stand in my wagon to get the top supers off, but what with the SHB now, I only put 3 max on at a time!


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## [email protected] (May 12, 2010)

Vance G said:


> Thats unbelievable Adam! You are after all not even in Canada!


It should read; You are after all not even in Canada eh !


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## canoemaker (Feb 19, 2011)

I'm with you Adrian. I use three supers and swap out two empties for two full ones before the third one is full. I do like to check my brood and look for queen cells without having to move so many boxes.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> I also know beekeepers who lay tall hives down on their backs and break the brood chambers off of the rest of the hive. Then the honey supers are worked. Two beekeepers lay the hive down.


Do they strap them so the boxes don't break apart while they lay them down or are they stuck together good enough?


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## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

I've seen a few stacks of up to nine boxes. Honestly, I'd be surprized and thrilled to have production good enough on a single hive to warrant having that many boxes stacked. Even figuring two deeps for brood, and figuring shallows for supers, nine boxes would yield roughly 300 pounds of honey for that hive. That much honey takes some time to get stored and capped. I see advantages to taking it off more than once during that period of time.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Propolis.


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## Rusty67 (Mar 9, 2010)

At 5'4" and 115 lbs I put an empty box on the ground and bring 'em down a frame at a time until I can lift the rest of the box. It's a lot of climbing up and down, but if I didn't do it that way it wouldn't get done at all. Whatever works.


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## JD's Bees (Nov 25, 2011)

Usually we have 3 or 4 deep honey supers and pull when they are full. We did have one year that we couldn't keep up and had 7 supers with 2 brood and had to stand on a barrel to get the boxes down. That was a 300 lb year.


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## S.M.N.Bee (Aug 9, 2011)

How about one of those short ladders drywallers use for hanging sheet rock. There about two feet high and three feet wide.
Should work quite well.

John


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Reading this thread made me think, I may have to break out the scaffolding if I stack supers that high, LOL! (but that would really work wouldn't it?) Luckily my hives are all in a row on level ground. 

Then I thought you might like to see these photos, talking about bees in 'high places'. I had a hive swarm last summer (Two months after installing a 4 frame nuc!) I just looked at them in amazement when my husband said "I have JUST the thing!"
Take a look. Nice to have heavy equipment around when you need it. This was his first swarm collection with a brand new bee suit and he did it 30' off the ground! He was a little worried when he shook the branch and got covered. No place to go. Hee hee, He did great though. I was proud.



















We dumped the bees in a nuc with drawn frames and hung it up for a while. The remainder of the bees just went right in. Collected it just before dark. Naughty bees.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>At 5'4" and 115 lbs I put an empty box on the ground and bring 'em down a frame at a time until I can lift the rest of the box.

Then you have to be careful to keep the box so the frames slide close to you or if they slide at an angle they all fall out... how would I know that?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Or you could take off honey before the hive gets too tall. Unlike Michael Palmer, I never have to reach that high to put on supers.


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

when I as a bee inspector many times later in the season we worked in teams. In a commercial outfit we would both lay the hive on its back. then we set the brood chambers back up and inspect. then we would both set the honey supers back on. still a lot of work as we inspected over 100 hives a day.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>we would both lay the hive on its back.

Did you use some kind of brace or tool to keep the boxes from popping apart? I can just see laying it back and you get that one hive that breaks apart in the middle...


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Having done this myself, also during Apiary Inspection, one depends on propolis, not braces or tools.


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

no we never had a hive break apart. one guy on each side holding at the top and middle. as long as the hives are on the ground it worked very well. I think that one of the inspectors was david dejong who is brazil now at the university there.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

The only beekeeper I did this w/ was Larry Wayne Winter. Bill Bertram and I were the Inspectors. Wayne had two of his guys lay the hive down, break off the brood boxes and take out the first frame. Then Bill and I would go thru our hives. After inspection was done, each hive was put back together by the beekeepers men.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

I could almost see a special purpose hand truck like an appliance dolly that could be strapped to the first honey super to aide in laying them down. First you would have to break the propolis between the brood boxes and the supers. The advantage is you could roll the stack of supers back on the brood boxes all at once. You wouldn't have to lay the supers all the way down either, just past the CG.


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## canoemaker (Feb 19, 2011)

It seems like stacking up a lot of supers would fall prey to the law of diminishing returns. If the bees have to navigate through five or six full supers to find empty space to store their nectar they will be wasting a lot of time. If they only had to go through two or three, they could be back out in the field gathering more nectar.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Top entrance, they go through two at most no matter how high the stack is.


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## canoemaker (Feb 19, 2011)

Another consideration is cost. Why own eight supers w/frames and foundation when three or four will do? Come winter, they all need to be stored.


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## LITTLE JOHN (May 16, 2010)

I use a lifting cage that I made for my kubota front end loader to trim tree limbs at out lake property. It works great, there is room to set the supers behind me and my wife runs the front end loader. I don't have to do this very often because we have been in a drought the last two years, but before that it worked great when we had a really good nectar flow.
little john


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

canoemaker said:


> Why own eight supers w/frames and foundation when three or four will do?


I got to believe that most hobbyist are not running 9 supers on a hive but if you were a business if might be more economical to just throw more supers on then to micro manage that particular hive. Think business, time is money. Changing things you do in midstream usually cost time which is money. Think hobby, time is of no concern.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

They hand it off to the house bees.....


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

LITTLE JOHN said:


> I use a lifting cage that I made for my kubota front end loader to trim tree limbs at out lake property.


Are you using it as a platform or using it to lift the hive?


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## libhart (Apr 22, 2010)

This could help quite a bit provided the area is level. Would make a nice work platform to set stuff too.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_146404-287-...ntURL=/pl__0__s?Ntt=platform+lader&facetInfo=


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## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

> I got to believe that most hobbyist are not running 9 supers on a hive but if you were a business if might be more economical to just throw more supers on then to micro manage that particular hive. -Acebird


Maybe so. Most of the honey producers around here run deeps as supers. Most bring hives back to this area in May, set them in yards, and fairly soon after that put two supers on each hive. The next check will then maybe see a third super put on. It's been a while since I've seen more than that on a hive running commercially around here.

Two deeps full of honey is, what, over 150 pounds of honey. That takes some time to produce. Someone has time or is paid to visit those hives before 150 pounds can be stored in each. Why not take the full supers off then? (I believe most everyone here does.) Leaving full supers on hives leaves them prone to robbers (bears, raccoons, etc., even humans), leaves extra room for small hive beetles and hive pests (unless colony strengths are very high), makes the hives prone to tipping, and makes hives more difficult to work.

Taking those supers off makes far more sense, in my opinion.

Of course, taking supers off as they fill up doesn't show off just how much honey a particular hive made in a season to passers-by.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Take honey off more than once a season and you won't have hives so tall you can't manage them.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I got to believe that most hobbyist are not running 9 supers on a hive but if you were a business if might be more economical to just throw more supers on then to micro manage that particular hive. 

When I was a hobbyist I did the same as I do now, harvest once a year. I only want to clean up once a year and I can only get away with wrecking the kitchen once a year.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

And how tall do your hives get? Eight feet?


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Michael Bush said:


> >
> When I was a hobbyist I did the same as I do now, harvest once a year. I only want to clean up once a year and I can only get away with wrecking the kitchen once a year.


We have two kitchens and one is always a wreck but If I were to pull frames or boxes to keep the hive short they would be stored so I can extract all at once.


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## Mustang (Jan 10, 2011)

3 9 5/8 & 6 6 5/8 and a stepladder


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

Michael Bush said:


> >I got to believe that most hobbyist are not running 9 supers on a hive but if you were a business if might be more economical to just throw more supers on then to micro manage that particular hive.
> 
> When I was a hobbyist I did the same as I do now, harvest once a year. I only want to clean up once a year and I can only get away with wrecking the kitchen once a year.


I'm thinking the lack of a spouse makes beekeeping more fun. I can spend what I want, and trash the kitchen whenever I feel like cleaning up after....


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Gypsi said:


> I'm thinking the lack of a spouse makes beekeeping more fun.....


As in all things, there are pluses and minuses.......................


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

After three marriages I can guarantee you it depends on the spouse.


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## lazy shooter (Jun 3, 2011)

Until this thread, I never imagined supers being stacked this high. It is staggering for me to think of how much honey must be stored in one of these super stacks. When I think of how the workers of these hives have to lift from above their heads and twist their bodies while bringing down the supers, I am equally surprised that more beekeepers aren't crippled with back injuries.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Beekeepers must be an adventurous bunch..Always new ideas of how to do it better. Stacking supers so high is just another mountain to climb, LOL


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## Beeboy01 (May 20, 2008)

I had a hive grow last year till it had three deeps and five shallows on it. Two of the deeps were brood but but the rest was honey. I ended up making steps out of cinder blocks to pull the top supers. The comical part was the one deep super. I ran out of shallows and tossed the deep on the top of the hive so they had room never thinking that the girls would be able to fill it. It must of been a real good honey flow because they drew out all the foundation and filled that deep super in less than two weeks. Boy was I surprised when I tried to pull that box off, it must of weighed in around 110 lbs. 
I would think that most beekeepers would get to a point where all the advailable equipment is in use and they would have to perform an extraction to free up honey supers. I almost hit that point last year with four hives and I'm starting out this year six and I know there will be some equipment shortage.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

lazy shooter said:


> When I think of how the workers of these hives have to lift from above their heads and twist their bodies while bringing down the supers, I am equally surprised that more beekeepers aren't crippled with back injuries.


You never heard of "Beekeeper's Back"? Did you see Ulie's Gold?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

lazy shooter said:


> I am equally surprised that more beekeepers aren't crippled with back injuries.


That has been the common comical definition of a beekeeper, someone who has a bad back or someone who will have a bad back.

Even though he wasn't a beekeeper, I find myself walking like my Iowa Hog Farmer Grandfather.


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## lazy shooter (Jun 3, 2011)

I do not know another beekeeper and have no conversations with beekeepers. My only exposure to beekeeping is my three hives and this forum. As a supervisor of deep well drilling projects, I have been extensively trained in safety and health, especially lifting techniques. That picture of Michael Palmeer taking a super off the tall stack is an example of how not to lift. It boggles my mind to think of the steps someone built with concrete blocks and how unsafe they must have been. I appreciate the macho, do what it takes, attitude, but back injuries are sometimes non reversible. I just didn't realize how labor intensive beekeeping is for you commercial beeks.


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## Beeboy01 (May 20, 2008)

Lazyshooter, the cinder block steps that I built were only two blocks high, not a deathtrap waiting to destroy my back as you implied. Ladders will not work in my yard because of sandy soil plus all ladders have a weight limit which the super combined with my body weight would of exceeded. Understand it would be nice to have the resources of a deep well drilling company but some of us just don't. I too have had extensive training in how to safely lift heavy objects from years working on offshore drill rigs and have seen people get injured by poor lifting posture. There is nothing "macho" about using cinder blocks to build a set of short steps, just a safe use of what was advailable. How are you planning to pull your supers when your hives grow to six feet or higher?


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## lazy shooter (Jun 3, 2011)

Beeboy:

I didn't mean any disrespect to you. The term macho, is something is use in well meaning red neck sort of way. My vision of steps was more than two blocks deep. It's not only that I make good money, but I have lived to a ripe old age so that my children and all others do not depend on me and my wife. The only comforting thing I find about old age is the lack of debt and the children don't need anything. Lastly, I only dream of having supers six feet tall and filled with honey. If so, my solution will be to suit up one of my sons or friends and get it done.


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## Beeboy01 (May 20, 2008)

No problem, I don't know what I would do with a 10 foot hive, maybe rent some scaffolding or build a giant platform to reach the top. I'm glad to hear you have made it to a ripe old age, I am working in the medical field and see a lot of young people about half my age in real bad physical shape. I've discovered that getting old is not for sissies and anybody who has made it this far deserves respect. You will have a six foot tall hive full of honey one day, just keep on keeping bees.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Lazy Shooter, it really isn't taking down supers of honey off tall hives that hurts me. I can slide them down the hive, onto my chest, onto my thigh, and onto the ground. 

i find working colonies while bent at the waist much more damaging, and often sit on an empty hive body to give my back a break.


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

It's taken a while but now I get an answer I can work with "slide them down the hive, onto my chest, onto my thigh, and onto the ground". Of course with my clumsiness I'm going to need to spin myself in the extractor to get the honey off afterwards.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

I figure not stacking the supers up that high would be better than a back injury.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Gypsi said:


> I could never have gotten away with bees in any of my marriages. Personally, I prefer the bees.


Wow!...............do I detect a note of bitterness here?...........but this is off topic..............


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>And how tall do your hives get? Eight feet? 

Rarely... but sometimes.


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

I'm more likely to harvest twice than get to 8 feet, but it sure would be nice to have an honest "bragging rights" photo with a genuine 8 foot hive filled with honey and bees.


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## lazy shooter (Jun 3, 2011)

Adrian Quiney WI said:


> I'm more likely to harvest twice than get to 8 feet, but it sure would be nice to have an honest "bragging rights" photo with a genuine 8 foot hive filled with honey and bees.


The above is beyond a dream, it is a fantasy.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Just because they are stacked tall doesn't mean they are full of honey.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Gypsi said:


> I figure not stacking the supers up that high would be better than a back injury.


Easy to say when you have a backyard apiary. When you have a large operation, there isn't time to pull supers and extract. On a good flow, there's only time to make your rounds and add more supers where needed. You have to stay one empty super ahead of the bees, and if you're spending your time harvesting and extracting, there will be colonies, yards, that don't get another super when needed.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Larger companies, corporation, strive for consistency. Beekeeping appears to be different because what is considered big looks to be small as I see it. In an employee situation a back injury could cost the company 50K easily and extended costs could be a million in liabilities.

Just saying ... forgetting the loss in honey production, you are trying to avoid a 50K+ accident, would it be wise to split these monster hives and walk away to strive for consistency? If the beekeeping industry was regulated as regular industry is regulated it would not have a choice.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

I just read an article about the perfect storm of high crop yields and high grain prices in our area. Seeking to balance out the article with a negative spin the writer had to mention that because of the low interest rates that it was difficult to invest this money where a good return might be expected. What is the parallel with this thread? For those of us fortunate enough to have some tall hives full of honey at current honey prices surely there must be a downside. Problems, problems, problems.


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## delber (Dec 26, 2010)

Ace, IMHO The problem with our nation is all of the regulations!!! MP and others Bring up great points. There's only so much time. You and I have no idea what it is to have thousands of hives so therefore we can't say how it should be done.


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## canoemaker (Feb 19, 2011)

Michael Palmer said:


> You have to stay one empty super ahead of the bees, and if you're spending your time harvesting and extracting, there will be colonies, yards, that don't get another super when needed.


What is the tipping point (in number of colonies) that make this true? 200? 600? 2,000?


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

delber said:


> Ace, IMHO The problem with our nation is all of the regulations!!!


Yeah, I suppose we could go back to the wild, wild, west and just shoot it out. That is how the cartels do it.

Seriously, it is regulation either way. IMHO one is more cost effective than the other.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

For me the tipping point will be the balance of health - I had surgery for heavy lifting in 2006. The risk of injury or the cost of hiring a helper to get the darned things down.


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## beyondthesidewalks (Dec 1, 2007)

Back in the early 1990s I had a hive that was producing honey at an alarming rate. The bees in the hive were very defensive and super productive. I was adding supers almost weekly, sometimes two at a time. The best year I ever had. Needing supers badly and not having time to order, build, paint and build frames for them, I bought some used supers from a retiring beekeeper. His supers had vent holes in them. He claimed that the vents helped the bees dry honey. Anyway, I bought and used them. I didn't realize that a swarm had moved into one of my supers right after I had placed them. This hive just continued to boom and time came to harvest. At that point in my beekeeping I robbed with bee go and a fume pad. I drove bees down and pulled supers starting on the tailgate of my truck. Everything went fine until I couldn't push the bees down out of the supers anymore. I figured I needed more bee go so I rewetted the fume pad and put it back on. You could hear the hive boiling. When I pulled the fume pad off the bees came pouring out and started stinging me through my suit. I just put their cover back on and walked away. I had over a hundred stings that day and didn't feel too good. I didn't realize that I had a two queen hive until my subsequent visit. Needless to say that I don't use supers with vent holes in them anymore. I don't use bee go anymore and I don't put a whole lot of stock into what the experts say, like two queens cannot live in the same hive.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

That may be the most educational post I have ever read!

Point taken Beyondthesidewalks!


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Beyondthesidewalks:

Thanks for sharing that story!

This site is really great for such vast and unusual experiences beekeepers have run across in their years of managing their bees. You have all helped me avoid mistakes and given me so many ideas. Thanks all.


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