# Fooled around with my Christmas present last night - pics included



## Spur9 (Sep 13, 2016)

And I'm not talking about my "special purpose" for all you fans of The Jerk (classic!!!)

The anchor bought me a FLIR One thermal attachment for my cell phone. We are experiencing the arctic blast and temps are in the high teens. First impressions of the device are favorable. Cons are no zoom option and you can't be shaking when taking the pic.

I have 6 hives. My first hive was a swarm given to me by my mentor in June. I bought the other 5 hives from my mentor and his bee partner. They are both in their mid 80's. Cancer & a stroke have made it tough for those two men to care for the bees. The boxes were in awful shape and no treatments of any kind had been performed in a long time. Once I got the bees to my property, I moved them into new boxes and treated as best I could (albeit late in the season).

I moved two of the hives into 8 frame boxes based on my assessment of colony strength. Fed all 6 hives around 350 lbs of sugar syrup in September/October. Much of the deeps and virtually all of the sallow/medium were filled and capped. I purchased fondant in case additional feeding in necessary.

** Surprised to see so much heat in the mediums/shallows in early January **


Hive #1 - 10 frame single that the bees drew and filled 2 mediums of honey/sugar syrup during the season. I left the 2 mediums on for winter.














Hive #2 - 10 frame single with a shallow. 














Hive #3 - 8 frame single with medium.


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## Spur9 (Sep 13, 2016)

Hive #4 - 8 frame single with medium.








Hive #5 - 10 frame single with medium.








Hive #6 - 10 frame medium with shallow.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

I saw this on a commercial forum & I am sooo tempted! I'm looking for a reason to justify it. Can it find electrical lines in the wall or underground? Wild game in the bushes after it's been shot and you're tracking after dark?

Ya know, if it clued me in on a colony that was higher in the hive than I thought and saved just one colony because of it, it would pay for itself.
Ordering now one


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## Bear Creek Steve (Feb 18, 2009)

Spur9,

Great pix, thanks for sharing.

Almost all seem to be high in the hive and when you get a warm day you might want to pop the top and check on their feed supply. If short, you can add sugar bricks a la Lauri for safety.

Enjoy your new toy (tool ?) Have a good beekeeping year.

Steve


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## jonsl (Jul 16, 2016)

Cool pics! I've been thinking about this and you may have just pushed me to do it.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Ordered mine just now. After thinking about it for a couple days, I can totally justify it as something other than just a toy. 

Here's the link:

http://www.flir.com/flirone/ios-android/?pi_ad_id=109589575225&gclid=CJTMhsG7q9ECFYQkgQodUykPww


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## jonsl (Jul 16, 2016)

Thanks for the link Lauri!


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## Spur9 (Sep 13, 2016)

Since it's thermal, if any lines in a wall are causing the wood/sheetrock to be warmer than the surrounding area, it would show that difference.

Not sure about the range, but if u got close to a deer shot and still warm, it'd probably show.

Need to read more about the temp display and what it means when showing the +/- number.

Found a door on the house leaking cold air this morning. Heading down to Ace for some weatherstripping!


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## Spur9 (Sep 13, 2016)

Got to thinking that some of the heat signatures are from the upper entrances and gaps in my hives. I know of one hole I just duct taped and it is showing on pic 1


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

I find it interesting how the handhold areas of the hive boxes show up as hot spots (that might suggest clustered bees), but presumably there aren't bees clustered specifically at those spots.

Great photos, but a reminder that 'hot spots' do not necessarily indicate bees, merely that more radiation is passing through the box at the thinner wood spots.

And those images seem to be a pretty clear indication that "bees _*do*_ heat the hive", for those that have argued otherwise.  That 'hive heat' is _incidental_ to the bees heating the cluster itself, but the 'box' is clearly warmer than the ambient outside air.


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## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

Lauri said:


> ...Wild game in the bushes after it's been shot and you're tracking after dark?...


I read where one policeman reported using it in the dark to locate people...But, I would think it is line of sight and could be fooled by foliage between you and the warm object. HTH


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Lburou said:


> I read where one policeman reported using it in the dark to locate people...But, I would think it is line of sight and could be fooled by foliage between you and the warm object. HTH


I'll let you know how it works. My husband shot a late season mule deer this year, lots of cold/ snow and got dark on us. Didn't want to push it in the dark so we backed out. Next day is was just a few yards farther than our tracks from the night before. That's when it would have come in handy. If it's legal that is. I'll have to check.


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## Spur9 (Sep 13, 2016)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> I find it interesting how the handhold areas of the hive boxes show up as hot spots (that might suggest clustered bees), but presumably there aren't bees clustered specifically at those spots.
> 
> Great photos, but a reminder that 'hot spots' do not necessarily indicate bees, merely that more radiation is passing through the box at the thinner wood spots.
> 
> And those images seem to be a pretty clear indication that "bees _*do*_ heat the hive", for those that have argued otherwise.  That 'hive heat' is _incidental_ to the bees heating the cluster itself, but the 'box' is clearly warmer than the ambient outside air.


I think the handholds show up because the wood is thinner at that spot and heat passes thru from the inside easier than the surrounding area. 

Went up this morning and several heat signatures from the pics above are around taped up holes and cracks. 

I go up every few days and place my ear to the hive for buzzing. This device makes the geek in me happy.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Lauri said:


> I'm looking for a reason to justify it.


Not sure it works in western Washington. It doesn't get cold enough!


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Spur9 said:


> This device makes the geek in me happy.


I'm the least geeky person I know. And I am excited I ordered it.  :banana:

My dad use to tell me when I was young, 'Before you buy something ask yourself, can you live without it?"

And

'Never buy something that will depreciate.'

If I dropped my dollars on it, you can bet I think it will have good returns. But it took me a couple days to consider the benefits. Thanks to a couple PM's. 

Locate late winter queenless colonies (no broodnest building in comparison to other hives) locate colonies that are high in the hives this time of year, monitor the growth of early spring brood nest to locate poor queen performance or interior issues, etc.


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## J O'Haro (Feb 4, 2014)

operating temp 32 f to 95 f ? so can't be used below 32 f ? or am I reading it wrong?


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Barry said:


> Not sure it works in western Washington. It doesn't get cold enough!


BARRY! You are alive! 

9.8 F with some wind the other day & pretty much all week. Not as cold as some, but It's cold enough for a good long brood break. Cold enough I have a hard time weaning myself from the pellet stove to go out to an unheated wood shop.


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## Spur9 (Sep 13, 2016)

J O'Haro said:


> operating temp 32 f to 95 f ? so can't be used below 32 f ? or am I reading it wrong?


I was using it last night at 16 degrees F outside temp. Probably spent 15 minutes or so taking/deleting pics.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

J O'Haro said:


> operating temp 32 f to 95 f ? so can't be used below 32 f ? or am I reading it wrong?


I see that. Might have to keep it warmer in my pocket in between images? We'll see.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Lauri said:


> BARRY! You are alive!


Barely. Been suffering with a head cold all week. You know I always gotta pick on you about climate. Don't let that stop you from buying the cool gadgets!


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Barry said:


> Barely. Been suffering with a head cold all week.


Got the the snake oil recipe, special just for you big guy


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## ep-bees1984 (Jul 26, 2016)

very cool


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## ep-bees1984 (Jul 26, 2016)

Lauri said:


> Got the the snake oil recipe, special just for you big guy


just use the top ingredient X500 when you sober up youll be fine


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Lauri said:


> Got the the snake oil recipe, special just for you big guy


Does home brew vodka from Poland count? Half a shot glass of it with honey seemed to turn things around for me. Thanks for the reminder!


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## marciamcc (Jan 8, 2017)

Would you allow me to share one or two of your pics to instagram? I have people who would really learn alot from them! I would of course give you credit (if you tell me your name! )


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## Spur9 (Sep 13, 2016)

marciamcc said:


> Would you allow me to share one or two of your pics to instagram? I have people who would really learn alot from them! I would of course give you credit (if you tell me your name! )


I don't mind if you use them. No credit back to me needed.


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## vdotmatrix (Apr 5, 2014)

The FLIR ONE is good for what we will use it for. Remember, it is giving yo information about relative heat not necessarily actual and accurate temperatures....this is what you are seeing with the hand holds...


Rader Sidetrack said:


> I find it interesting how the handhold areas of the hive boxes show up as hot spots (that might suggest clustered bees), but presumably there aren't bees clustered specifically at those spots.
> 
> Great photos, but a reminder that 'hot spots' do not necessarily indicate bees, merely that more radiation is passing through the box at the thinner wood spots.
> 
> And those images seem to be a pretty clear indication that "bees _*do*_ heat the hive", for those that have argued otherwise.  That 'hive heat' is _incidental_ to the bees heating the cluster itself, but the 'box' is clearly warmer than the ambient outside air.


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## vdotmatrix (Apr 5, 2014)

Not these units


Lburou said:


> I read where one policeman reported using it in the dark to locate people...But, I would think it is line of sight and could be fooled by foliage between you and the warm object. HTH


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## vdotmatrix (Apr 5, 2014)

This is an excellent tool. I have the FLIR C2 which gives a little more detail but I don't think I really needed it at twice the cost, but I have the convenience of self contained unit. I was concerned about the FLIR being tied to whatever phone I was using. Anyway.....the tool is great for assessing the amount of food you may still have, location and size of the cluster; most of these images shows your cluster pretty high up in the hive. When they cluster, they naturally generate heat; no surprise there. 

Remember-BEES DON'T FREEZE TO DEATH THEY STARVE TO DEATH. 

I would slip some fondant in asap....just looks like they are pretty high up and running out of food. My hives need about 60 pounds of food to survive, areas further up like NH need at least 100 pounds.....

I make fondant and pour them in to 10" paper plates so I can quickly add a plate of food if needed...which reminds me I should get outside and feed before they start going out for cleansing flights...been a pretty mild winter here so far.


Spur9 said:


> And I'm not talking about my "special purpose" for all you fans of The Jerk (classic!!!)
> 
> The anchor bought me a FLIR One thermal attachment for my cell phone. We are experiencing the arctic blast and temps are in the high teens. First impressions of the device are favorable. Cons are no zoom option and you can't be shaking when taking the pic.
> 
> ...


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## vdotmatrix (Apr 5, 2014)

bAsically the same info, shot a few weeks ago...


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

FLIR shows a new model, the FLIR One Pro, on their website, which has twice the resolution (160x120) of the FLIR one (80x60) and will be priced at $399. It is probably overkill for bees, but I wouldn't mind doubling the resolution for another $200. Anyone know when it will be on the market?

http://www.flir.com/flirone/flironepro/


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## vdotmatrix (Apr 5, 2014)

WOW....IMO, we really only need to see where the cluster is and about how big it might be.....


shinbone said:


> FLIR shows a new model, the FLIR One Pro, on their website, which has twice the resolution (160x120) of the FLIR one (80x60) and will be priced at $399. It is probably overkill for bees, but I wouldn't mind doubling the resolution for another $200. Anyone know when it will be on the market?
> 
> http://www.flir.com/flirone/flironepro/


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

shinbone said:


> FLIR shows a new model, the FLIR One Pro, on their website, which has twice the resolution (160x120) of the FLIR one (80x60) and will be priced at $399. It is probably overkill for bees, but I wouldn't mind doubling the resolution for another $200. Anyone know when it will be on the market?
> 
> http://www.flir.com/flirone/flironepro/


You just never know when a little more detail will help with insight. Looks neat. I signed up for updates on the unit. 

I''ll use this current one immediately. I've thought of a few more uses for it. Due to be delivered today.


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## marciamcc (Jan 8, 2017)

Thanks!


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## swarmtrap (Jan 14, 2017)

heres the flir in action,https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OP2UrZSJ_iE


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## swarmtrap (Jan 14, 2017)

and they also make a borescope to


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

We used to have to pour liquid nitrogen in ours and it was on a hand truck. Then the new ones came along with batteries and you would get it to operating temperature and put a new battery in to go do scans. Just unbelievable where they have come. $25K was a deal!
Keep in mind the photo is going to show you the difference in heat, the greater the ‘delta T’ the more pronounced. Animals that live in the cold do not have much heat loss, dead animals, it goes without saying, it will depend on how long it is down.


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## RBRamsey (Mar 1, 2015)

Here is another good use of the FlirOne camera. I use it to help with bee removals.








The red is the colony in the a section of wall viewed from out side the house. and if you noticed the small red blob in the top left, the bees have started in another section of the wall. The white colored area is were the entrance to the hive is.








This view from the ground looking up to the eve of the house. The bees are also in the eve.

With the camera we were able to follow the bees in to a little corner in the eve under insulation to get the last little pocket.

I take before and pictures of a bee removal now. 

On a side note, I also bought a snake camera. The camera is about 1/4" in diameter on a 15' cable. I can drill a small hole through the siding or sheet rock and look inside the wall cavity to determine the amount of comb and bees if the flir wont penetrate well enough.

We were called on a job that another beekeeper removed the bees from a year ago. I could see the previous removal didn't seal everything well enough and they got through. Once we removed the eve boards, we removed a small amount of comb. There were too many bees for the amount of comb we had. With the snake camera, I was able to locate another pocket of bees that was around the corner of the house we were working on. The back of the house had wood siding, but the side of the was brick. There was a 3" gap between the brick and wall studs. We found more bees and comb in there. Most of the comb was damaged by moths. The bricks were radiating too much IR for the camera to pickup the bees, but we were able to feed the snake camera through a small hole to determine the size of the comb and bees. The first removal missed this pocket of bees, and we would have too without the cameras.

Ain't technology wonderful.


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## Cloverdale (Mar 26, 2012)

Spur9 said:


> I was using it last night at 16 degrees F outside temp. Probably spent 15 minutes or so taking/deleting pics.


I also received one for Christmas and used at lower temps also. I went around and took pics of everyone's hives. And you can see where heat might leak out of your home. It takes a pic through the tar paper wrap but not so good through the foam insulation on the hives.


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## Hogback Honey (Oct 29, 2013)

Oh man, I want one of those.


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## Spur9 (Sep 13, 2016)

Bear Creek Steve said:


> Spur9,
> 
> Great pix, thanks for sharing.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the advice Steve. I was able to place 5lbs of fondant in each of the 3 hives appearing to have the cluster highest this past weekend. Hope to take care of the rest this coming weekend.

You have a good 2017 beekeeping yourself.


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## Spur9 (Sep 13, 2016)

vdotmatrix said:


> Remember-BEES DON'T FREEZE TO DEATH THEY STARVE TO DEATH.
> 
> I would slip some fondant in asap....just looks like they are pretty high up and running out of food. My hives need about 60 pounds of food to survive, areas further up like NH need at least 100 pounds.....


Took care of half the hives last weekend with fondant. Hope to get the rest this weekend. Thanks for the advice.


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## Cloverdale (Mar 26, 2012)




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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Oh Man, I used mine and am amazed at the wintertime info I'm getting. Not able to show photos yet. (They are on my Droid and my signal is so bad here at home I can't access them yet to share.)

Taking images for a few nights at different outside temps revealed slightly different results in the same hives. When temps were below recommended usage range the photo were blurry and the unit shut off after about 45 minutes use at 28 degrees F. Images taken at 40 F were more clear and detailed.

I expect there will be a learning curve in deciphering how to read the images. I have some good comparison photos, along with over wintering mating nucs, hives in various stages and one that is occupied, but is likely queenless. The image is quite different form all the rest.

I have a big OB hive in a whisky barrel I thought was unoccupied. (Swarmed mid June, I tried to requeen it with different genetics and it dwindled down to next to nothing. I figured the virgin did not successfully return or it threw off enough cast swarms there was little left. I can remove the top bar 'frames', but it would entail doing some damage so I just left it alone.) I had seen a small amount of bees in it late November which was odd they had lasted that long. I was curious about what was going on deep inside. If anything it was a mating nuc sized cluster. I went to that hive first with the Flir and was amazed at what it showed me. Why they are still alive is beyond me. Sorry now I didn't try to get some fall feed into them.

I tested my new OAV gun on this hive a few weeks ago to see how the vapor distributed through out the hive. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZ22fhs27oo

6-10-16










6-19-16










6-21-16










11-30-16










1-17-17










1-17-17


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Flock of Turkeys










Quad mating nuc










Compare to it heat signature with the foam insulation




















Same hive comparison:





























I have tons of these comparison photos. It will be interesting n spring, when I can actually get into the hives to see. With all this winter info, if I have an issue in spring, I can go back and look at the winter status. There are just a couple hives that are in question.

This one on the right especially.A dead out. Just checked. Heat is residual from daytime sun.










Mating nucs are on fire!










This one is a divided nuc. Five half deep frames over five on each side.

You can see the difference in photo clarity with the operating temps in the suggested range.










For the most part, I like the way things are looking

This is the south side of the hives. Image on the north side shows yellow heat, but not the white hot. Shows them clustering where they get a little wintertime sun.










For comparison, here's an overwintered single deep from a few years ago. Front (top) of the box where bees are residing is the south-east side. Bottom, northern exposure area is avoided or at least not preferred.


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## Spur9 (Sep 13, 2016)

Lauri said:


> Oh Man, I used mine


I guess you did!. Great pics. 

I'm waiting for temps to cool back down so I can take some more pics. Also want to get my hives moved to their new location where they will be spaced out and I can get all 4 sides in detail.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

When a hot heat source is also in the area, the imaging shows surrounding heat sources as being cooler. This hive lit up like the others when Mr. Ed wasn't in the background.


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