# Feeding shim thickness



## jbuzz (Jan 27, 2015)

Should it be thicker? Every fall when i am getting the girls ready for winter i put a 3/4 inch thick shim under the inner cover so i can put fondant in for emergency food. Then when late winter rolls around it is there also for pollen patties. The fondant is homemade and a little thick some times. It can be pressed against inner cover. Should i leave more room?


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## Matt C (Apr 10, 2013)

for what it is worth, on the underside of my lids I run a 3/8" spacer all the time for pollen patties.


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## jbuzz (Jan 27, 2015)

Thanks Matt C. Part of my concern i guess is more area means more cold.


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

Leaving a little more room should be OK. I think my shims are around 1", maybe a little more. More area means more cold for sure but it's not like you're doubling the empty space above them.


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## jbuzz (Jan 27, 2015)

Thanks. I like your quote.


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## rwlaw (May 4, 2009)

I make sugar brick with molds made out of 1x3, so my shims are 2 1/2". I don't think it makes any difference what the cavity is overhead, just don't have the wind whistling thru.


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## jbuzz (Jan 27, 2015)

Thanks rw. That is a good size space. Well i feel good about adding a little more space next year. You have as cold or colder winters as we do.


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## MTN-Bees (Jan 27, 2014)

I use 2.5 inch shims also. I use them on all my hives and nucs for wintering.


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## Scpossum (May 4, 2014)

I think mine are between 1.5" -2".


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

I run old supers thru my table saw and get three about 2 1/2. I shave off the mushy edges to make them flat. I like that thickness as I can put half a 25 pound bag of sugar in it or a full baggie of syrup. I winter all my colonies with one on top under sound board and Styrofoam top. My wrap sandwiches over that and if the queen doesn't fail or the mites don't get them they come out alive.


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

I was lazy and made my out of 1x4 laying around and didn't feel like riping them....they seem to work just fine.


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

Im like Vance, about 2-2.5 scrap. Enough to handle a gallon baggie feeder was all i was interested in. Dont think the extra space has hurt with the sugar blocks on. G


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## WWW (Feb 6, 2011)

I run 2 1/2" shims year around on all my hives, they have a 3/4" hole drilled through the front for ventilation and 1/8" mesh screen stapled over the hole and to the bottom. During winter the shims are placed screen side down and wood chips are placed in them to absorb moisture, for the rest of the year the chips are removed and the shims are turned screen side up so the bees don't propolize the screening. 

Turned screen side up the shims work very well for feeding sugar bricks if needed.


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## jbuzz (Jan 27, 2015)

Thank you all. Well that makes me feel better. I will make thicker ones this summer. I am glad i joined here. There are no bee clubs here. No one to ask questions to or bounce ideas off of. Thanks again.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

My shims are also about 2 1/2". This allows plenty of room for the bees to access the sugar blocks. Sometimes the bees will be completely covering the block, top and bottom. so a little extra overhead space doesn't hurt.


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## WWW (Feb 6, 2011)

jbuzz,
Building these shims is an easy project if you use furring strips, two screws in each corner will hold them together just fine, easy peazy . 

http://www.homedepot.com/s/furring%20strip?NCNI-5


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

I have used medium supers in the past - this year I didn't have enough empty supers so I made 2 1/2" shims out of t-11 scraps. The extra volume really really (really) is not an issue - for that matter about half of my hives (including some medium singles) have wide open screened bottom boards. 










BTW, if you are building feeding shims anyway the 1/2" hardware cloth stapled to the bottom makes inspections much easier.

I know it is hard to wrap our minds around it, but the bees do not heat the cavity. As long as the cluster is of sufficient size and has access to plenty of fuel they don't freeze - at least not here in the mid south where it only gets down to single digits a couple of times most years. In our climate I'm pretty sure that lack of ventilation is way worse than too much space or too much ventilation.

BTW - that punkin' pie looking stuff is 1 part dry ultra bee + 5 parts sugar + 1 cup of water per 5 pounds of dry mixture - no cooking required. Easy - about 50 cents a pound, and clearly they love it. Picture is from about a week and half ago.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

David LaFerney said:


> BTW - that punkin' pie looking stuff is 1 part dry ultra bee + 5 parts sugar + 1 cup of water per 5 pounds of dry mixture - no cooking required. Easy - about 50 cents a pound, and clearly they love it. Picture is from about a week and half ago.


I like you shims with the 1/2" cloth, great idea

I'm thinking about trying a 50# bag of Ultra Bee to use for late winter feeding this year. Are the sugar and ultra bee "parts" above by weight, or volume? 

At $90 per bag I'm trying to do the math and figure out how we're getting $.50 / lb mixed. If I remember correctly a 50# bag is supposed to make about 100# of mixed patties??. That's about $.90 / lb just for the ultra bee, not including the sugar cost. I'm happy with that, but just wonder if I'm missing something. Are you going heavy on the sugar, or maybe buying ultra bee at bulk prices?


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## jbuzz (Jan 27, 2015)

Thanks for the link Bill.


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## jbuzz (Jan 27, 2015)

Thanks for the nice pic David. I really like your shim! I am going to build some that way. Good advice. Are you happy with the ultra bee? I was thinking of trying some. I use premade patties right now.


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

one medium when I need to feed dry sugar. Otherwise, nothing.


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## jbuzz (Jan 27, 2015)

Mike, I was thinking the same thing. That a little more space doesn't hurt. They are able feed on top of premade patties with the thin shims i use now. But when i over do it when making my own they need more space. If i didn't make patties like burgers going on a grill i would not have this trouble. But i am not as skilled as my wife.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Mike Gillmore said:


> I like you shims with the 1/2" cloth, great idea


Thanks, even just a scrap of wire cloth that is not stapled to the shim is a big help.



Mike Gillmore said:


> I'm thinking about trying a 50# bag of Ultra Bee to use for late winter feeding this year. Are the sugar and ultra bee "parts" above by weight, or volume?


Weight - 5 pounds ultra bee + 25 pounds sugar + 3 pounds (6 cups) water.



Mike Gillmore said:


> At $90 per bag I'm trying to do the math and figure out how we're getting $.50 / lb mixed. If I remember correctly a 50# bag is supposed to make about 100# of mixed patties??. That's about $.90 / lb just for the ultra bee, not including the sugar cost. I'm happy with that, but just wonder if I'm missing something. Are you going heavy on the sugar, or maybe buying ultra bee at bulk prices?


I would like to say that this is an early winter mix intended to ramp up the brood production - but the truth is I've been using the same recipe for several years more or less and I never properly adjusted the numbers when I changed to using ultra bee from mega-bee. Now that you have pointed it out and I have recalculated it this - 5 pounds of 20% ultra bee ($1.80 per pound) + 25 pounds of sugar (about $11) - is about 3.3% protein for the dry ingredients - about 60 cents per pound once you mix it up. 50 cents was a top of the head calculation - sorry.

I actually have been feeding them one feeding of this and then doubling the pollen sub for subsequent feedings. So 10 pounds of UB + 25 pounds of sugar + 7 cups water = 38.5 pounds of feed for about $29 - about 75 cents per pound.

So, never believe anything you read on the internet. 

I guess I have been unintentionally cheaping out, but the thing is by April the bees are just about pushing the lids off.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

Ok thanks David, I got it now. The percentage of sugar you are using is much higher than I was figuring. Sounds like they take it very well at that concentration. I might just try that and see how it works.

I have screen cloth stapled to the top of my shim. It keeps the bees from flying out when popping the top just to see if they need any sugar added. I like your idea of laying a piece of hardware cloth across the top of the box under the shim. Should make for easy removal of left over sugar when the time comes.


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## nater37 (Aug 15, 2013)

I install windows, so I get a lot of 1x2 stock. I use it cause it is free and it seems to work fine. They seem to make a huge ball of bees up top and hang down from there.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Mike Gillmore said:


> Ok thanks David, I got it now. The percentage of sugar you are using is much higher than I was figuring. Sounds like they take it very well at that concentration. I might just try that and see how it works.


They certainly like it - I checked today and some hives (the one in the picture FE) have completely cleaned up the sub and left the plain sugar. 

I was a little distressed that I had accidentally messed up my feed recipe to the extent that my protein supplement didn't have much protein in it. But, after looking into it a bit more Dry Ultra Bee is 65% protein not 20% like you might think from the badge on the Mann lake page for pre mixed patties. Sooo - *my 5-1 pollen sub is really 9.8% protein*. So, a little less embarrassed now.


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## RudyT (Jan 25, 2012)

Do you have any SHB issues? (I would guess not during feeding season given the picture and great results.)


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

RudyT said:


> Do you have any SHB issues? (I would guess not during feeding season given the picture and great results.)


Yes. Every manipulation has to take SHB into consideration. During the winter and As long as the bees are taking the pollen sub pretty quickly then patties (or a patty like mixture) are OK, but when it warms up just a little *you do not want a soft mixture to sit in the hive for any extended period of time or it will become infested with shb larva.* But you can dry the same mixture out in a warm oven (In brownie tins for example) and then feed it as hard candy. The bees still take it just fine, and the beetles pretty much leave it alone. The no-cook paste is just a lot easier as long as conditions allow its use. 

*Once you start* "Feeding Season" is as long as they need it. They will produce a lot of brood when you feed sub during winter, and then when it warms up and natural forage becomes available they will be able to feed it on their own - until there is a week of cold wet weather in late March. Under those conditions they can empty out their stores remarkably quickly. If they can't get out to forage sufficiently to feed everyone you have to keep feeding even if natural food is available. You have to stay prepared and watch the weather.

Or never start to begin with.


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