# Apistan on all winter



## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

I would informatively bring up the resistance
issue and suggest alternatives like OA, etc.
Or is they stick with Apistan, pull it as
directed.

Sure wish we have bee lunches around here!


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## Jesus_the_only_way (Mar 17, 2006)

Yes, you must tell them how very important it is to remove the Apistan after exactly 42 days. They are only hurting other Beekeepers that are trying to do things right. Another thing you could do is recommend (Beesource.com) , where they can learn the proper way to do things. Also the most helpful things I've read since starting out are George Imries Pink pages...they are awesome.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I'm thinking to myself "this is how the mites become resistant 

Exactly.

>Should I say something (gently?) 

If you're the newbee they will not listen. I'd wait until you have a chance to show some knowledge in other areas before you "correct" them.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

Another non-threatening approach may be to have with you at the next "bee lunch" a published article or scientific report by a Phd. or other professional about Apistan resistance.

During the course of your lunch take out the paper and say something like... "Hey, take a look at this article I stumbled across. What do you think?".

This will keep you neutral and they will not feel like you are lecturing them. If they are open minded at all it will at least get them thinking or talking about it. If they openly resist it then you can simply drop it and know you at least tried.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Good idea Mike G., MB is right on point
regarding the newbie attitude that may
be present.


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## wade (Apr 1, 2006)

This bee lunch sounds like a great opportunity to get to know others with like interests, and exchange ideas. So why not exchange ideas then? Forget beating around the bush, just share what you know. They can take the info or leave it, like anything else.


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

The only time I left Apistan on all winter (my first year beekeeping). I opened those hives in spring to find empty comb with piles of dead mites on the solid bottom board. I guess they absconded. I suspect they have seen the same in some hives.

I used Thymol products the last two years.


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## Dwight (May 18, 2005)

I hope none of the wax from these hives that have Apistan left in them all winter gets sold to the foundation suppliers. 
Do people not realize that the chemicals they put in their hives affect ua all! 
Definitley say something! Gently or otherwise! Let them know what they are doing is wrong!


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

"I hope none of the wax from these hives that have Apistan left in them......"

It does.

"Do people not realize that the chemicals they put in their hives affect ua all!"

Good point.


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## Dwight (May 18, 2005)

After reading this thread I read the thread entitled "essential oils and crisco" Wow!! what an eye opener! I guess there is no chance of buying "clean wax" on the open market now is there. Very sad. 
If the general public reads that thread the price of "pure, chemical free LOCAL honey" will sky rocket!!


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

My guess is that all of the beekeepers involved already know full well that they are to pull the strips.
My son was hired to work a dozen hives one spring for an old fellow, and found Checkmite strips in all of the hives. They had been in all winter. This beekeeper, and the fellow that he had previously caring for them are fully aware of what they are supposed to do.They have gone to all of the same meetings we have.
So the question is; How do you coax people to do what is best for them and the industry?
Pulling strips on time is not a matter of opinion, or "we all have our own way of doing things" or any of those excuses.
By the way, my son was also surprised to see strips laying all over the ground around the hives, apparently from years' past.
Nice, huh?


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## Maine_Beekeeper (Mar 19, 2006)

Thanks everyone. 
Yes, I think it is probably too late for this year - but hopefully at our next lunch I can talk the group into considering a different treatment all together - ApiLifeVar is what our State Beekeeper recommends. I think I can probably sell that as a more effective treatment and hoefully get rid of the Apistan all together. 
I know the reason they are leaving in is so they won't "hurt the bees" by opening the hive in the cold - unfortunately they don't see that they are hurting the bees much worse by strengthening the mites.  
I can only wonder how many more people are still doing this...
Perhaps I can get a small article in our State Beekeepers newsletter discouraging this practice.


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## timg (Oct 21, 2001)

I am an inspecter in central Ohio. I have seen many beekeepers do this. However our cold season is only about 60 days long so it works here.


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## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

> I am an inspecter in central Ohio. I have seen many
> beekeepers do this. However our cold season is only
> about 60 days long so it works here.


Exactly what part of the instructions that come 
with the product is so hard for Ohio residents to understand?

Here's the thing with opening hives in the cold.
*IT WON'T HURT A BIT*

Windy or rainy days certainly are not a good day
to open hives, but you'd have to be way up in
Alberta Canada to be worrying about the impact
of a quick mid-winter open and close to do 
something like remove strips, or toss in pollen
patties. My only "bee suit" is a parka, because
the most important work I do is to get hives
revved up BEFORE anything is blooming, and it
is often rather cold in late January to early
February. 

If you somehow forgot to treat your hives earlier, 
the "attach a string" trick means that you need
do nothing more than tilt the upper boxes
to create enough of an opening to remove strips
in a timely manner.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

{If the general public reads that thread the price of "pure, chemical free LOCAL honey" will sky rocket!!}

Really, what about demand? How many on this post (raise your hands please) asked their local grocer what kind of pesticide was used on those beautiful blemish free strawberries (most likely from mexico) and gorgeous green brocoli(grown on mega farms in Arizona pollinated by bees beeing fed Mavrik in grease patties) they bought at the supermarket super store. What about the anitbiotics and hormones in that milk you poured on your (and your kids) cereal this morning. I'd bet the same number as ask for Florida Orange Juice, Idaho Potatoes and Vermont Maple Syrup. Most of the buying public have no concept (or really want to). In some of the biggest farmers markets (NYC) in the world, 30 yrs in exsistance, with the most discriminating support your local farmer customers, I weekly hear people make comments about how the organic produce has "dirt on it" (horrors) or the carrots are deformed (darn those nemotodes), do we feed our bees sugar?- because our honey "sugars" faster than the grocery store and can you cut the green stuff off the top of the beets! I'm surrounded every saturday by hormone free milk, free range eggs (some probably a month in the field), humane raised chickens,dirty, three legged organic carrots and baked goods with wood chips in them to aid regularity. The majority of the buying public won't care until their next door neighbor is rushed to the hospital with cynide poisoning (used of course only in empty supers) and then will get the all clear sign a week later and go back to the mindless feed trough we all eat from. Lets not even talk about packaged foods or polyunsaturated fats and the rest of it. Anyone have any honey nut any brand cerals latetly. Did you call the mill and ask how much chinese antibiotic was in it. Don't kid yourself Dwight, we Americans love our cheap, pretty, paraquat laden food! 

A small percentage of the buying public really cares about supporting their local farmers or giving their family real quality food. I actually find the people in the big apple are much more concerned than the locals I live next door to the upstate farm land of the Fingerlakes. I don't believe it is because the rest don't care, I just believe everyone is working two jobs and running crazy with what it takes to live inside and eat every day and food just hasn't risen to the top of Abe Maslows' triangle yet! Mondsanto, Bayer, Athur Daniels, they are huge toxic producing mega corporations because WE support them!


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## Dwight (May 18, 2005)

Joel,
I don't disagree with you except I don't think many people realize how "paraquat laden" our food is. And if they read threads like this most would be willing to spend more for better quality. 
I do know that organic food markets are rapidly gaining popularity here in Vermont despite the much higher price!!


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## Mitch (Jul 7, 2003)

I am from Ohio and have used strips in the past.I see no reason or excuse for leaving them in the hive all winter.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

{I don't disagree with you except I don't think many people realize how "paraquat laden" our food is. And if they read threads like this most would be willing to spend more for better quality.}

This is so true Dwight. I think beekeepers who sell at markets do a better job than many farmers at getting this accross. We should all make it part of our "informational conept". The difference Green Market has made to many Farmers is huge and growing. If we don't get the message out at every chance the small farm producers (Us) will dissappear will be a matter of history in some farm museum and the only choice left will be the huge corporate farms where bottom line decisions are made by executives who have neither a tie to the land or the customers other than the dollar bill.


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## lazybeestudio.com (Aug 24, 2006)

If you are going to treat where the removal of strips will be in daytime temps below 50, as Jim Fischer mentioned: TIE A "STRING" TO THE DANG THINGS (they have a hole in them near the bend), CRACK OPEN THE HIVE A HALF AN INCH AND YANK THEM SUCKERS WHEN IT'S TIME--NO MATTER WHAT! 

Beekeepers MUST FOLLOW INSTRUCTIONS ON CHEMICALS! Yes, beekeepers don't like to listen--they like to do it their own way . . . BUT, YOU CAN NOT DISREGARD INSTRUCTIONS ON THESE PRODUCTS. IT EFFECTS EVERY BEEKEEPER, EVENTUALLY.

I hate to YELL. But, we must take these things seriously. If you choose to use hard chemicals and disregard the instructions you are:

1. Jeopordizing Consumer Health. Who wants the government to intervene and restrict them from selling a little local honey? It will happen if we don't take our product seriously.

2. Making it a whole heck of a lot harder for us all to keep the bees we love, by increasing resistant mite populations.

3. Hurting yourself, by possibly damaging your queen and killing the hive because she's dead or now infertile and the colony is coming out of winter with bees that will soon die. (queens are pretty hard to come by in early February . . . that is because, there aren't any--unless you buy 400 from Australia).

Lazy Bee - Beekeeping & Soapmaking Supplies
"We work harder to make your beekeeping easier!"

http://www.lazybeestudio.com (866) LAZY-BEE


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## Aspera (Aug 1, 2005)

Unfortunately Joel is very accurate in his description of how many people (including a few who live on farms) view food and its production. All you can really do is suggest to them that the label instructions are for the good of both bee and human. Furthermore, even a veterinarian cannot legally recommend ignoring the label based on economic issues such as labor, product cost, and whatever productivity might theoretically be lost by opening the hives at the correct time. I also think that the Pink Pages make many helpful recommendations that are easy to both understand and follow. Personally, I feel that not removing the strips because of cold is a sign of lazy people, rationalizing their poor management with lazy thinking....but wait, let me tell you how I really feel


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

I hate to say this but its much more common than most know. Every year, I will find a good number of beekeepers who still have strips on when inspections start in April or May. I give them the information and make all the suggestions, but it makes you wonder. And it also make me wonder about the local stand in front of the farm, where I used to imagine pure, untainted honey. If people only knew.....


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## sierrabees (Jul 7, 2006)

At the next meeting you go to you might mention that out here in California where we seldom have anything you would call a winter, people left the strips in for extended periods of time. Today you would be hard pressed to find a mite infestation that isn't resistant to apistan. People out here that do sometimes use them will find very healthy mites crawling on the strips. Overwintering their apistan strips may well turn Maine and the rest of New England into a varroa garden of eden like California is now.

Especially in cold weather, the release of the chemical from the strips is slowed down leaving low levels in the hive. This favors the development and reproduction of those mites that have a higher tollerance for toxin. As the weather warms and the levels increase, those tollerant mites began to produce even more tollerant offspring. This produces a similar effect to what happens when people take an anitbiotic for an infection until the symptoms start to improve, then stop. The bacteria they are trying to get rid of have only lost the most susseptable population, leaving a slightly resistant population. When the symptoms start to reoccur people take more of the antibiotic and repeat the cycle. In no time at all a strain of bacteria develope that can surive and thrive in the presence of the antibiotic and the drug is useless.


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## Dick Allen (Sep 4, 2004)

I'm more inclined to believe the use of Mavrik soaked plywood strips or Mavrik in Crisco patties by those beekeepers having mega-hives has more to do with fluvalinate resistance than some beekeepers having a few hives inadvertently, or deliberately, leaving their Apistan strips in for the winter.


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## Aspera (Aug 1, 2005)

I'm sure that you are correct, but none of it is a good thing.


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