# Extra queens after combine



## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Hi, All!

Lately I have been thinking to combine all the weak hives to make them
stronger going into the winter. But then I still have the excess queens to
deal with. How would one handle the extra queens?
I'm thinking to put a queen excluder on both sides of a frame of bees with a laying queen
in it. And put these frames into the same nuc hive. Each frame will have its own queen inside
the queen excluder. Will this work until the Spring time expansion again?


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

Trying to have your cake and eat it too. Pinch the queens you don't want. Sorry, nature is cruel. I have an extra queen myself. She's doomed.


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

How long is winter in your part of California? Maybe a queenless nuc where you cage the queens so they all get tended. I haven't tried it for any length of time, but I think I've read that 3-4 weeks is the max you could do this without affecting her quality. I did have queen cells on different combs hatching in one nuc that was divided by queen excluders (topbar hive). That worked well so I could queen clip them soon after hatching and the queens couldn't get to one another, but I didn't run it long enough to know if the bees would tend more than one queen. Certainly none of them were laying queens and I think the bees would have a preference toward one that was.

What you might try is a 2 frame nuc with solid division boards between "colonies". Then a queen excluder on the top of that box with honey stores overhead that they all could pull from. (haven't tried this. just an idea)


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

These are the late mated queens after the summer.
If I can keep them alive then in the early Spring time I
can make expansion faster than waiting for the new Spring queen. If
there is a dead queen over the winter then these queens become
invaluable. Do you see the value of these queens, aunt betty?
We don't have much of a winter here in the last 4 years. But the
El Nino could possibly change this setting to lots of rains this
winter. So with a mild winter we can raise bees all year long, practically
by feeding them. Our mild winter only lasted 4 months if everything goes accordingly.
Because of your one idea, it triggers mine too. Here is what I had tried without
any good result so far. I have 2 queens divided by a solid board with each side having 4 to 5 franes of bees on the same open entrance. Found out that the bees prefer the stronger laying queen than the weaker one. So they went into the other side leaving the weaker queen with less bees. This idea does not work out that well.
My next try is to use your idea of placing a #8 wire window screen over the bottom box and have separate opposite entrance for the top and bottom hive box. So the entrance is in opposite direction and each hive box will house one queen, one on top and the other at the bottom. Maybe this time the bees will not drift over to the other side with the stronger queen. The window screen will allow the heat to be share too. The secret I think is the opposite entrance to avoid the drift. What do you think?


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

3x3 queen castles with individual entrances and a feeder shim on top that has 1/8 hardware cloth on the bottom of it with a mountain camp sugar brick in it. Make sure the hardware cloth seals tight at the castle dividers, perhaps make the feeder shim a 3 compartment shim just to be sure the divisions meet at the castle divisions so you are sure there will be no queen cross-over. If the hardware cloth is stretched tight and smooth, it should seal at the castle divisions enough that you can use just the single large compartment feeder shim with sugar brick in it; The workers can share the feed, so long as queens can't cross over the castle divisions.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Thanks, Ray. 
I know what to do now. Time to put back
that 3-way divided mating nuc. Only this time is with 
a #8 window wire divider screen between them. Very clever idea!


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Here is what I did tonight.
Put a queen excluder over the hive box to make a top entrance for
the stronger nuc hive. Then closed off the bottom entrance so that
all the foragers will go into the weaker nuc hive on the other side where
another laying queen is at.
So the entrances are facing the same direction in a diagonal at 
different height level. Inside the hive has a dish drying cloth over the top bars to
separate the frame of bees and a 1" chewy red foam as the hive divider. Each divided section
has 4 frame of healthy bees and a laying queen. You think this will work?


Upper and lower entrances:


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

So Beepro, did it work?


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Yes, it did work just like a 2 queen hive set up.
I later modified this set up to use the 1/2" screened in the middle
foam divider board. They can still share the heat during this cold winter.
My strategy is to condense and expand based on the hive population at
any one time. All are wintering well now. With the shared heat they are
gradually expanding their brood nest now. All young after the solstice queens
are laying and started to brood up now. At full expansion phase on the flow I
will removed one queen to form a new nuc hive. Then do some grafting to make
many more new queens to replaced the old ones. The production hives will have all 
young laying queens and all the old queens will go into nucs eventually. Everything corresponding
to their expansion and contraction phase. Oh, these queens are only 4 months old now.


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