# Solid or screened bottom board?



## ralittlefield (Apr 25, 2011)

Yes, there is an advantage to being able to close the bottom board off, especially in cold/windy conditions. Have you looked at the plans on the build it yourself section of this site? They have an IPM bottom board design that can be used as you describe and for monitoring mites.

http://www.beesource.com/files/ipmbottom.pdf


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

I use commercially-available equipment, so I use a solid board under a screened board to get the best of both worlds. I'm northern NY and I can't imagine a night like tonight without a solid board in place. Yet I want to monitor the mite drop every of the year, and in general just poke around in the hive trash, too. Having the two bottom boards, stacked, means that the colony actually has a closed bottom, not just the semi protection from an inserted monitoring tray.

In fairness, I have to say I do know of good local beeks who only use SBB and their winter losses aren't more than others. OTOH, I have had _no_ winter losses.

Since you're making your own, see if you can figure out a way to have both in one layer.

Enj.


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## GaryG74 (Apr 9, 2014)

If you're making your own, you can put a hinge, and a board all the way across the back to block the air, on the back of the hive. Saves having to have two bottom boards stacked, although lots of folks use that configuration and love it. Some plans have a piece of wood on the end of the mite board that closes off the back of the hive when the mite board is in its slot.


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## tech.35058 (Jul 29, 2013)

I am in the process of "re" designing these. some of the first ones I made were not that great, & tedious to make to boot.
Having adequate space for an OAV device, that can stand the heat is one feature I want. plus standardizing so all the sticky boards, & bottom boards are interchangeable.
Blocking/sealing it up so that the bees cant get into your sticky boards or oil trays is a good thing, too.
From my comments, obviously, my first ones weren't very well designed  Good Luck with your bees ... CE


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## tech.35058 (Jul 29, 2013)

duplicate


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## orthoman (Feb 23, 2013)

I started with screened bottom boards but no longer use them -- all solids now. I think the screened bottom boards may have been developed as a means of dealing with mites and part of a IPM system; however, I think overall the screened bottom board alone is quite ineffective. Others might have more info. on where they came from.

Also, seemed like the sliders always swell and get stuck in the wet weather and they can't be removed. The plastic sliders might be better.

Nope - not for me anymore.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

I use all solid bottom boards, but if you have decided on screen, how hard would it be to simply raise the bottom brood box and place a piece of plywood under the bottom box. then two boards to close off the ends. 

I have built a lot of screen bottom boards for other people, but, if it were me, I would use a piece of plywood under the hive if I wanted to close off the bottom.

cchoganjr


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## ralittlefield (Apr 25, 2011)

Cleo C. Hogan Jr said:


> I use all solid bottom boards, but if you have decided on screen, how hard would it be to simply raise the bottom brood box and place a piece of plywood under the bottom box. then two boards to close off the ends.
> 
> I have built a lot of screen bottom boards for other people, but, if it were me, I would use a piece of plywood under the hive if I wanted to close off the bottom.
> 
> cchoganjr


Would the plywood be smaller than the size of the brood box so that it would not close off the entrance? Or maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying.


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

Natbeek said:


> Any strong argument for just using a solid bottom board instead?


1. Bees don't like screened bottom boards. Swarms that are placed in a hive with a screened bottom board are likely to abscond. Swarm traps with an unprotected screened bottom board don't attract bees. I'm hesitant to think that I know better than the bees what they need.
2. Where I am, in the summer the cool air from the evaporation of nectar drains out the bottom of the hive with a screened bottom board.
3. Screened bottom boards allow debris that bees would otherwise not carry out of the hive to fall out the bottom. That debris could encourage biodiversity that could lead to improved hive health and the eventual rise of natural enemies of bee pests such as _varroa_. I believe that most other beekeepers would disagree with me concerning this so proceed with caution.


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## pskoskiewicz (Apr 14, 2014)

Same here: screened board on top of a solid one. After watching one too many colonies abandon the bottom box when the flimsy plastic sheet wasn't providing much wind protection I went with that two board solution. There are interesting discussions in other forums about thermal properties of wooden hives. Just listened to a podcast from Australia about a commercial beekeeper there who was describing his success with the synthetic hives. Feral bees usually select openings that have very good thermal insulation and don't seem to mind higher internal temperatures that the cluster is then able to generate.

Aussie podcast: http://kiwimana.co.nz/victor. Go to 15th minute when he starts talking about the polyester hives and how the standard wooden hives leak thermal energy. His point is that polyester hive is actually better in a hot climate allowing bees better temperature regulation inside the colony. Quite interesting.

Given the arctic blast we're expecting in NY this weekend, thank goodness all my hives are wrapped in bee cozies and hopefully they'll ride it out without any problems. I might throw an additional one around my single nuc that I'm overwintering as an experiment.

Przemek


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

ralittlefield said:


> Would the plywood be smaller than the size of the brood box so that it would not close off the entranc.


Sorry, not sure I understand what you are asking. See if this helps.

The plywood should be the same size as the outside dimensions of your box (8 frame/10 frame etc), so rain will continue down the box to the ground. There should be a 3/8 to 3/4 opening in the front, and you will need to close off the entrance in the back. 

If your screen bottom boards are sitting directly on your hive stands, then you made need 3/4 riser to allow debris from hive to fall through screen and land on plywood over the Winter.

Hope this helps, If not, let me know and I will try again.

cchoganjr


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

I build my own SBB's for all my hives. Mine are built with a 3/4" opening across the back for the tray. The main reason I use the SBB's is for easy OAV application, or I would probably just go with solid bottom boards. 

I've found that my bees do better with the tray left in year round, and the 3/4" tray opening reduced most of the time with strips of wood or insulation board cut to fit in the opening. Plastic political signs are used as trays, and I have a stack of markerboard panels cut to tray size that are used when vaporizing. I don't have to vaporize through the hive entrance and disrupt the bees, but have access at the back of the hive away from the bees. The vaporizer is under the screen and away from the bees while heated. 

I don't find much benefit using SBB's as an IPM tool, but I do like to slide out the trays once in a while and examine the debris on the tray. It can give you a little information on things going on inside the hive if you will not be opening it up and inspecting... where the cluster is located, wax from uncapped honey cells, fallen mites, etc.


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## Colobee (May 15, 2014)

Cleo, I think the misunderstanding is in where to put the solid piece of plywood. " _raise the bottom brood box and place a piece of plywood under the bottom box." _

It would go under the screened bottom board - right?


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Solid and screened bottoms both have their advantages - you should try both. I've given both a really good trial, and other than special SHB trapping bottoms I've decided that for overall function, simplicity, and durability I prefer solids. But not by much. If I go to pickup woodenware and they can't complete my order with solids, I will take screened, and lose no sleep over it. It's not a make or break choice in my opinion.


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## ralittlefield (Apr 25, 2011)

Colobee said:


> Cleo, I think the misunderstanding is in where to put the solid piece of plywood. " _raise the bottom brood box and place a piece of plywood under the bottom box." _
> 
> It would go under the screened bottom board - right?


That makes perfect sense. Sorry for being so dense.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

Colobee said:


> It would go under the screened bottom board - right?


Exactly.

cchoganjr


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## beereal (Jul 12, 2016)

Dear beekeepers: Enjc, Przemek, et al,

Your approach to use a screened bottom on top of the solid one seems like a good idea.

I am a first year beekeeper in Central NJ and have two overwintering hives. I use Mann Lake equipment and started with screened bottoms only in the summer. We added solid bottoms under the screened ones for additional hive insulation in the winter. The solid bottom is installed backward to the screened bottom forming a box with an opening in the back.

I found this 'design' very convenient for OAV and for monitoring the debris from the hives. I would like to keep this double solid-screened bottom for year round. I am still trying to figure out what to do with the opening between the two bottoms. I use a strip of foam board and #4 hardware mesh as a mouse guard for the winter. It works ok but is difficult to remove and put back. And for warm seasons I think it should be a removable screen cover with at least #8 mesh to guard from bees and pests getting in and yet still allowing some ventilation and OAV. An aluminum foil tray with oil is also helpful on the bottom of the solid board to control smaller pests.

Do you have any idea on how to cover the gap between two boards with an easy removable screened hatch?

I am still not sure if this double bottom will work for hot weather without increasing humidity.

--beeReal


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

Mike Gillmore said:


> I've found that my bees do better with the tray left in year round . . .
> 
> I don't find much benefit using SBB's as an IPM tool, but I do like to slide out the trays once in a while and examine the debris on the tray. It can give you a little information on things going on inside the hive if you will not be opening it up and inspecting... where the cluster is located, wax from uncapped honey cells, fallen mites, etc.


This is my experience, too. Except for looking at mite fall after an OAV application, I see little use for SBBs in my area. And, I am starting think that the inherently drafty and poorly insulating coroplast bottom tray of my SBBs negatively impacts brood production. I rarely get much brood in my bottom-most box.

Not trying to be mean, but I would gently suggest to the OP that he maybe consider doing more research on beekeeping _in his area _if he is thinking having an open bottom board year-round in Idaho might be a good idea . . .




.


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## missybee (Sep 6, 2014)

We used screened bb's year round, zone 6b, hot humid summers. During bee season the bottom box is always full of brood, last year 8 frames full on most of the hives. The sbb's seem to cause no issues here. I have only seen one hive beetle since we started bees. 

I did make most of mine and can close them off if I want to.


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## R_V (Aug 20, 2016)

ralittlefield said:


> Yes, there is an advantage to being able to close the bottom board off, especially in cold/windy conditions. Have you looked at the plans on the build it yourself section of this site? They have an IPM bottom board design that can be used as you describe and for monitoring mites.
> 
> http://www.beesource.com/files/ipmbottom.pdf


I get a 404 on that link. anyone else?


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## pskoskiewicz (Apr 14, 2014)

I just use a cut piece of pipe insulation (foam). A half inch is perfect width to close the gap between the reversed solid bottom board and a screen bottom. The foam lasts a long time and is cheap, especially if you buy in bulk in places like Home Depot or Lowes.

As for humidity, Prof. Bromenschenk at UMT always pointed out that a colony is perfectly capable of replacing air inside the colony when it wishes. Whether you have a screened bottom or not, humidity will be in the air inside and outside the hive. The bees will adjust as needed.

Przemek


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## BadBeeKeeper (Jan 24, 2015)

shinbone said:


> This is my experience, too. Except for looking at mite fall after an OAV application, I see little use for SBBs in my area. And, *I am starting think that the inherently drafty and poorly insulating coroplast bottom tray of my SBBs negatively impacts brood production. I rarely get much brood in my bottom-most box.*


I think you just have lousy bees.  I use screened bottoms (completely open) in the Summer and haven't had an issue with getting brood in the bottom box. In fact, they even like to build drone comb hanging off the bottom bars of the bottom box, which is a PITA if I need to swap boxes for some reason because I have to scrape it all off. Not sure it matters, but these are Carniolans. The first year I started, I worried a lot because I would look in the bottom entrance and always see masses of bees and 'stuff' hanging down, and would think they were making swarm cells.

Now I have to wonder what makes your experience different from mine. I'm thinking that there has to be some other factor(s) than just a screened bottom vs. solid, and open or not...type of bees (Italian vs. Carni vs. ?), weather, etc...


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## beereal (Jul 12, 2016)

pskoskiewicz said:


> I just use a cut piece of pipe insulation (foam). A half inch is perfect width to close the gap between the reversed solid bottom board and a screen bottom. The foam lasts a long time and is cheap, especially if you buy in bulk in places like Home Depot or Lowes.
> 
> As for humidity, Prof. Bromenschenk at UMT always pointed out that a colony is perfectly capable of replacing air inside the colony when it wishes. Whether you have a screened bottom or not, humidity will be in the air inside and outside the hive. The bees will adjust as needed.
> 
> Przemek


Thank you, Przemek, for such a simple solution!
Does this pipe insulation provide protection from mice?
If I still want a little ventilation in the summer I might use the same idea with a rolled piece of window screen.
-- beeReal


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## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

Seven years down the road , and what was the advantage of screened bottom boards again? I am replacing mine little by little with bottom boards made from Advantech, with a small double screened hole in the center for drainage. Cheap and lasts longer and with those I never have queens returning from mating flights taking up residence under the screen.
Johno


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