# What I expect from my VSH bees



## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

This is going to be a bit of a photobomb. I went through about a 3rd of my colonies today and took some pictures of their progress. To put it in context, our maple trees are just shy of peak bloom and the red buds (today) are just showing some color. 

This first picture is a 2015 F1 daughter of a II VSH queen. The colony was overwintered in a deep + medium and was very heavy in November. These pictures were taken around noon time. Yeah, this one almost got away from me :shhhh:









Lid and one frame removed (taken as soon as lid was removed)









Frame with brood covered with bees (sorry about the focus):










Deep frame with brood (yes they are back-filling):










There was lots of pink-eyed drones between boxes. I looked at about 20 drones and saw no mites. The colony was very gentle. 

This next one is a different VSH colony in the same yard (back-filling too):










3rd colony is same yard:










Next yard. This is also F1 VSH that overwintered in 2 deeps and a medium. This colony made 200 lbs of honey last season.










Brood from above colony:










None of these colonies have been treated (ever). I've got lots more, but these pics are provided to just add some credibility to the discussion that occurred in these two threads:

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?321476-Typical-brood-pattern-for-VSH-queen

http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...ekeepers-realistically-expect-with-VSH-queens


I usually don't post pictures (don't always carry my phone to the hives), but I thought this could be useful in the continuing debate on VSH bees, and perhaps erase some doubt in the minds of the skeptics.

I have been working hard for many years on enhancing the productivity of my bees and over the past 3-4 years I'm really seeing substantial improvements.


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## Dan the bee guy (Jun 18, 2015)

Very nice keep up the good work!


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## mmiller (Jun 17, 2010)

Nice looking bees there. 
Do you test for mites to get comparison numbers against your hives without VSH queens? I'm also interested in what your yield comparisons are like.
I purchased a dozen VSH queens 2 years ago. A few of them had nice brood patterns but overall I was displeased with their shot patterns and poor honey yield. 
I am not naive enough to lump all VSH queens into my very limited experience with them so hopefully I don't get jumped on with folks thinking that. Just curious really.

Mike


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

mmiller said:


> Do you test for mites to get comparison numbers against your hives without VSH queens?


Yes, I test all my bees, survivor stock, VSH, and package queens out of GA. VSH always have the lowest mite counts. The survivor stock carry higher levels than the VSH, but seem to be able to manage mites. My survivor stock has always been slightly hotter than I care for, but given their ability to survive and produce I just deal with them. If they don't produce they are gone. 

The package queens fail miserably. What I've seen with package queens is a September mite count done in the second year will be at least 10x higher than VSH bees, which is a level the colony cannot sustain and will perish if left untreated. I've seen this many times.

My goals are to focus on production AND still maintain varroa resistance. I realize that these are lofty goals, but without both of these, VSH bees would be more of an experiment than a serious contender as a production bee. 



mmiller said:


> I'm also interested in what your yield comparisons are like.


My VSH yields are very competitive with non-VSH. That said, I've seen some horrible VSH bees that basically couldn't support themselves. In fact, Glenn Apiaries suggested to me once that they may need to be augmented with donor brood. I was seeing that on some F1s - not just the breeder! To me that wasn't something easily rectified without an enormous effort, and something not well-suited for open mating. Thankfully that experience wasn't the final story, however, this is a work in progress for sure. 



mmiller said:


> I purchased a dozen VSH queens 2 years ago. A few of them had nice brood patterns but overall I was displeased with their shot patterns and poor honey yield.


Yes, others have posted similar observations. Selection matters. You simply cannot buy a breeder queen in the spring and go into the VSH business that summer. It takes several years to get a sense where your stock is relative to classic standards.


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## photobiker (Mar 23, 2015)

AstroBee, on a bit of an off shoot, one yard had 1 deep and 1 medium and the other yard had 2 deeps and a medium. From all the reading I have done I was under the impression that northern bee keepers used 2 deeps because of the long and cold winters and the southern state used single deeps. Guess that is not completely true. Would you account to the high honey yield to have 2 deeps?

Ralph


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

photobiker said:


> Would you account to the high honey yield to have 2 deeps?


No. I use a variety of configurations and actually very few are double deeps. One of my all time record VSH hive yields was a single deep for brood + QE + mediums. It is key to make sure the colony is heavily provisioned in the fall so they can go full throttle after the first pollen comes in.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Thanks for posting, AstroBee!
What do the mite numbers for your bees (packages, VSH, and survivor) look like? Ballpark?
Are you talking 10, 3, and 7 per 100 or...?


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

jwcarlson said:


> What do the mite numbers for your bees (packages, VSH, and survivor) look like? Ballpark?


Here are some ballpark September sugar roll numbers (listed per 300 bees): VSH 0-5, survivor 5-15, package (2nd year) 50+

Occasionally I'll find a VSH that peeks above 10, which is above my comfort level and therefore she is disqualified from the breeding pool.


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