# CCD and Urban Beekeepers



## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Google in the middle of Silicon Valley lost 75 of it's hives.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

Unfortunately, even in an urban environment you are still not safe from the alleged detrimental effects of neonicotinoids. They are found extensively now in lawn care and garden products, and even found in many potting soils. Visit your local Lowe's or Home Depot some time and read the ingredients on the labels of packaged products in the garden center. They are found in almost everything, it's surprising.


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## mrspock (Feb 1, 2010)

dcerdeiras said:


> hello.
> 
> As you know, ccd is a major problem in the beekeeping world, and one of the culprits has been nicotine based pesticides.


o rly?


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

Don't think anyone has linked CCD to neonics. And CCD appears to be dwindling - just like disappearing disease did in the past and there were no neonics then.


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## Greg Lowe (Feb 3, 2012)

Someone sent me this link just now.

http://io9.com/5897793/two-of-the-most-widely-used-insecticides-on-earth-could-be-causing-bee-die+offs

Here is a quote:
"They researchers discovered bees that had been dosed with thiamethoxam (another popular neonicotinoid) were more than twice as likely as untreated bees to die while away from the hive, due to what they describe as "homing failure." In other words, the thiamethoxam seems to impede the bees' navigational abilities. Computer simulations later suggested that these wayward bees were getting lost often enough to cause hive populations to crash."


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

This is one of the problems though and why the causes of CCD are still so vague. Sure, bees dosed with thiamethoxam (another popular neonicotinoid) may be twice as likely to die. But I'd be pretty sure bees dosed with any insecticide will be twice as likely to die.

The latest figures do show reported CCD to have waned a lot in the last 3 years. If it's neonicotinoid, CCD should have increased.

Having said that, the results of certain research are that neonicotinoid exposure does weaken the bees and make them more susceptable to other ailments such as nosema.


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## dcerdeiras (Mar 20, 2011)

Ok, thanks for the info. Hopefully CCD does disapear.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

dcerdeiras said:


> Hello.
> 
> As you know, CCD is a major problem in the beekeeping world, and one of the culprits has been nicotine based pesticides. Does anyonew know if any urban (away from agriculture) beekeepers getting this disease?
> 
> ...


CCD has been a problem for SOME beekeepers. IMO, not a major problem for beekeepers

I may be wrong, but I believe there is a difference between "nicotine" and "neonicotinoid". Words matter.

The problem seems to be environmental, not just agricultural. Though it does seem agriculturally related. It is also management related. "It is the culmination of everything that has happened to bees since Varroa first showed up." Dr. Maryanne Frazier, Penn State.


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## Monkadelic (Feb 5, 2010)

I lost my best hive right before Christmas, and all the evidence pointed to CCD. The days prior, everything looked fine (I tend to have my coffee watching my backyard hives). The day I opened them up because there was no activity, I found the queen, about a dozen bees and virtually no brood. Lots of stores available. My mentor also couldn't find evidence of anything else. The robbing didn't start until late that afternoon, after I had ripped everything apart. I'm blocks from our little downtown, so I'm about as urban as you can get in our area.

That suggests to me that urban areas are not "immune" to CCD.


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

Usually with CCD there is brood left according to reports. Also, IMO CCD is way over diagnosed. Might have been good to take those bees and send them in for testing. Could have pointed you in the right direction. Nosema, virus, varroa, etc.


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## Monkadelic (Feb 5, 2010)

Camero7, there was brood, just very little (conservative Carniolans was suggested to me, as the hive was Carni). And how to explain everything looking normal until that day? According to every seasoned beekeeper I spoke to about it (I called everyone I know) they suggested CCD, as no one could come up with another explanation. Our inspector couldn't make it out to me for at least a week (I called him too) so he didn't see it, but of course asked me if I saw this or that, and there was no evidence of anything. If it had been varroa, or something else, at least I could have learned something from it. That was the most frustrating part, that I couldn't take a lesson away from the experience. I would have preferred to lose that hive to something that could have been explained, therefore knowing how to prevent it in the future.


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

I wasn't trying to call you out. Hope you didn't feel that. There is too much of that lately. it was a suggestion. Even when I think I know what killed a hive I scoop a few bees and send them to Maryland. Well worth the trouble. I've been wrong more often that I've been right with my diagnosis and it certainly helps in future planning.
Good luck


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## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

here's some research suggesting use of neonics on corn result in it being in HFCS whick lots of folks use for feed
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/pr...md=referral|utmcct=/&__utmv=-&__utmk=89621787


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

check the other thread.
http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...an-on-Neonicotinoid-Pesticides-that-Kill-Bees

This study sucks


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## Benthic (May 1, 2011)

Mike Gillmore said:


> Unfortunately, even in an urban environment you are still not safe from the alleged detrimental effects of neonicotinoids. They are found extensively now in lawn care and garden products, and even found in many potting soils. Visit your local Lowe's or Home Depot some time and read the ingredients on the labels of packaged products in the garden center. They are found in almost everything, it's surprising.


Is there a list somewhere of common neonicotinoids? I'd like to avoid potting soil that contains them. What am I looking for on the label?

EDIT: I found a list in the Wkipedia article on neonicotinoids.

Brian


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