# My DIY OA Vaporizer!



## hex0rz (Jan 14, 2014)

I have little knowledge about whether one exists commercially in the US. So going off of some ideas I've seen with people using these in other countries, I set off to build my own!

I guess in a technical sense its called, "Active vaporizer."



It did not take much to put together and I'm confident I have the temps. right. I used my heat gun to figure out where it set it up at. I have some more tweaking to do to perfect it. Its a rough proto, if you will say. I just need to get a fair weather day here so I can treat the hives and see what success I can derive from it.

What do you guys think?? :s

I read one comment so far that using OA and copper is not a good idea. If this is something that gains attention, maybe I could consider making a stainless piece instead. I've got ideas for different attachments and whatnot.

The idea behind this like any other active vaporizer. I really get fired up that I don't sit at one hive to apply this. It takes just mere seconds to treat a hive! Something that I will need someday if I can work up to that magic number!


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## WWW (Feb 6, 2011)

Well that sure is an interesting concept and I hope it works well for you, the copper should do just fine; who is the maker of the heat gun, I have never seen one that small before?


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## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

I bought a vaporizer from SNL on this forum and I am very happy with it, but I like the looks of yours better and it looks like it works on 110. The proof of course is in the pudding, so I am anxious to see how well it works.


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## dadandsonsbees (Jan 25, 2012)

I built one very similar to this about a hold of the copper it will burn the bageezus out of ya.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

You should rig some type of extension with a remote switch so you can get your face out of the fumes.


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## WWW (Feb 6, 2011)

AstroBee said:


> You should rig some type of extension with a remote switch so you can get your face out of the fumes.


This is sound advise because blowing the vapor into the hive puts the hive under positive pressure and will cause the vapor to blow out any opening it finds.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

How does it keep from blowing the OA powder out the nozzle before it gets hot enough to vaporize?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

The most important thing is to be upwind when you do it. You do NOT want to inhale the vapors and the wind can shift. I'd recommend using a smoker so you can constantly monitor the wind direction.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Michael Bush said:


> I'd recommend using a smoker so you can constantly monitor the wind direction.


And even that might not be safe. I've seen sudden shifts in wind when OAV treating. As I'm standing a few feet away, I generally have time to shift my position. I've gotten a whiff once...such a small bit as to be invisible and even several feet away it took my breath away. If I were using something that had a forced air component, I wouldn't even consider it without a proper breathing filter and eye protection.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>And even that might not be safe. I've seen sudden shifts in wind when OAV treating.

Correct. Even that might not be safe.

>I've gotten a whiff once...such a small bit as to be invisible and even several feet away it took my breath away.

Me too. It will make you think hard about the risk of doing it again...


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Use a respirator!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In this thread, not one mention of a respirator.....

Respirator, goggles and gloves are adequate protection........


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## honey jhar (Jun 5, 2014)

Quoting SNL from:
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?301979-Considering-switching-to-Oxalic-Acid 
post #11
" I could not agree with you more, a respirator with an N95 rating works just fine.......... you can find them at Walmart, Ebay & Amazon"





Really, for under $15 for a box of filters! Mine were from a paint store. Get your filter.


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## Fishman43 (Sep 26, 2011)

How does the T OA hopper work? I.e. How does it hold the OA and release the vapor?


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## T.Smith (Aug 26, 2009)

I really like the idea of this. Could you explain more of the mechanic end of how you built it. Also have you tried it. And results. Thanks


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## hex0rz (Jan 14, 2014)

Its an Harbor Freight heat gun... It does run on 110v, yes. I think it should be as effective as other vaporizers, so long as it does vaporize. Which I suppose ought to be proven by how drastic the mite count becomes? I'm thinking I won't be able to get a count. I have quit a bit of dead bees on my bottom boards so I will have to wait until spring to do a SBB count.

I will vouch that the copper can get very hot. Have to be careful not to touch anything with it! I'm thinking about an extra handle to hold it or let it stand on by itself. The piece is somewhat heavy and creates some leverage on the heat gun tip.

I've read the MSDS on OA and will take proper PPE considerations in handling it. The first night I tested it, I got myself down wind for a moment to see if what was really coming out was indeed the OAV. Yep, I did not breathe right that whole night!

One thing I have not read about is what the proper level of PPE is required when this is in vapor form. The MSDS sheets are only telling you what you need when handling it in its solid state. When it turns into a vapor, an N95 is not going to protect you from that. I could be wrong, but I know a little about these sort of things. Vaporizing will probably require more along the lines of a respirator with an appropriate type cartridge to handle this.

I've thought quit a bit about showing this to you guys on the forum. It was exciting to come up with something fairly quickly that seems to be effective. I need to actually get it into the real world and test it out to see what it could be lacking and how well it works. As with anything, it will need improvement.

The concept is fairly simple, and is nothing new to many people on here who have already seen the function of an active vaporizer. It utilizes a "hopper" and uses the venturi effect to introduce the vapor to the hive. This allows the OA to be vaporized and the vapor to be pulled out while the remaining OA is heated and the process continues.

I introduced 2 grams to it and cooked it off, so to speak and was quit surprised how long it took for it to fully vaporize. How does it compare to a passive vaporizer? I'm not sure yet. Like I said, I need to do some more testing to get the numbers so I can spec it out and compare to other vaporizers. The idea behind doing it though is that I feel like this will allow me from having to buying multiple vaporizers and lugging around a battery with me and can also apply treatments in record time.

I have some time tomorrow to apply a treatment and can some specs like I said above. The ultimate question will be in whether or not the weather will cooperate so I can actually conduct the treatment and tests!

This is a very rough prototype and I do have some different out of the box ideas that I think would better serve me in my approach to apply treatments. More R&D will be done!

Also, the other idea about this concept is some may not justify buying a generator to run this when power is not available. Okay, fair enough, but who is to say that while you've been lugging around that battery for your vaporizer, you could not just have hooked up an inverter all along?

Ya, Mule, Ya!


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

If it takes a long time to vaporise the 2 grams, you will be blowing a lot of hot air into the hive. I'm wondering if that could be resolved by shortening the distance between the hopper & the main pipe, so it heats and vaporises quicker? Also, for my vaporiser, a time waster is stopping & reloading it. If you could make it hold a bigger quantity & do all or more hives in one shot would speed things a lot.


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## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

Oldtimer said:


> If it takes a long time to vaporise the 2 grams, you will be blowing a lot of hot air into the hive. I'm wondering if that could be resolved by shortening the distance between the hopper & the main pipe, so it heats and vaporises quicker? Also, for my vaporiser, a time waster is stopping & reloading it. If you could make it hold a bigger quantity & do all or more hives in one shot would speed things a lot.


I agree with that. There is a video somewhere on this site of a homemade Thymol vaporizer that can go through an apiary in a New York minute. The vaporizer that I bought from SNL vaporizes as soon as the terminal hits the battery, but requires manipulation at every use. No problem with 4 hives, could be a pain with a lot of hives. Also being able to use 110 power would be nice.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

hex0rz said:


> The first night I tested it, I got myself down wind for a moment to see if what was really coming out was indeed the OAV. Yep, I did not breathe right that whole night!
> 
> One thing I have not read about is what the proper level of PPE is required when this is in vapor form. The MSDS sheets are only telling you what you need when handling it in its solid state. When it turns into a vapor, an N95 is not going to protect you from that. I could be wrong, but I know a little about these sort of things. Vaporizing will probably require more along the lines of a respirator with an appropriate type cartridge to handle this.


This is the scary part to me. We have folks who're experimenting with a compound that is very dangerous. And....they haven't even investigated the safety beforehand.
'I did not breathe right that whole night!'
This stuff can and will cause permanent lung and eye damage. Please...don't play with your device until you understand the potential consequences and you've taken full precautions. 
I'm going to hate it when we wake up to a headline about a newly blinded beekeeper looking for a lung transplant after dabbling in this.


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## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

Mine came with a warning to wear a vaporizer and eye protection. That warning comes on everything now, but I am a scaredy cat so I did it.


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## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

Here's my version of a DIY vaporizer. Seemed to be working as intended. 









Needed to keep increasing the size of the hole in the cap - presently 1/4. Used the applicator through a hole in a 2 1/2 feed rim with a plexi glass cover. You can see how the vapor is coming along and when it is done. 

The 1/4 hole in the cap gets heat into the tube to prevent condensation on the inside of the tube. Condensation in the tube and around the end is problematic with tube versions. The 1/4 hole also mixes/stirs the vapor in the hive and pressurizes the hive. Had vapor coming out the entrance reducer(two 3/8 by 1/2 holes).

The vapor does exit any gaps between the rim of the plexi cover and hive supers. Almost should be taping these for safety of the bee keeper.

The last time I used it was the fourth time on the particular hive. I wasn't sure how effective earlier applications had been due to earlier versions of the applicator. I also had some problems with my mite count board and had to refine it. Got some 150 mites on 40,000 bees, so I estimate less than 1%. It was also getting cold to be opening the hive and taking samples. Hive appears do well with good population and a few discarded dead bees per day.

Tube does get very hot and leather gloves should be worn.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

hex0rz said:


> When it turns into a vapor, an N95 is not going to protect you from that. I could be wrong, but I know a little about these sort of things. Vaporizing will probably require more along the lines of a respirator with an appropriate type cartridge to handle this.


Correct.

Yeah, when I saw N95 suggestion above that concerned me, as the N95 seems to be only a particle mask. Perhaps some have a layer of charcoal, but I suspect that its not sufficient for full protection. It is certainly not particulates that are the main concern when vaporizing OA. 

I was also concerned as OT pointed out that you're blowing VERY hot air into the hive for a period of time, which could be harmful to the bees. I think something that get the crystals into a vapor as quickly as possible is needed. Perhaps some form of heat exchanger/diffuser may help, that or just send snl some cash and get a real vaporizer. 

Lets kill mites not bees or our fellow beekeepers.


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## Fishman43 (Sep 26, 2011)

hex0rz said:


> The concept is fairly simple, and is nothing new to many people on here who have already seen the function of an active vaporizer. It utilizes a "hopper" and uses the venturi effect to introduce the vapor to the hive. This allows the OA to be vaporized and the vapor to be pulled out while the remaining OA is heated and the process continues
> Ya, Mule, Ya!


I understand the concept, but can you explain and/or show your construction of the hopper in the T


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## hex0rz (Jan 14, 2014)

I think what I was really trying to convey was the idea that I'm not cooking the OA off quick and not making an effective vapor from it. It was just a shot from the hip observation. I'm going to get it spec'd out here tonight and get better info. on its functions. I do not think the design is very far off from being right for delivering the OA. I feel if I alter the size of it much more its going to be too cold or too hot. IMHO, I think with what I already have blows any passive vaporizer out of the water. The hopper is already big enough to hold alot of OA crystals. I have not spec'd out the hopper size, but I would estimate I could probably treat atleast 12 hives or so before running out.

I most certainly read the MSDS sheet before I handled the OA. Just because I consciously put myself in some harm does not mean I'm ignorant of what it can do. Good grief, if that were the case, then we should all chastise the man who runs the scientific beekeeping website!

On the other hand, thanks for your concern about my health and safety! That makes both of us! I would not put myself in harms way for no good reason. I want to live a long and full life and that also includes keeping bees! Some times I feel its necessary to know what it is your handling so you know how to recognize it. Hence why people test things with their senses. But in my case, I got downwind of it to get a feeling of it, where it would not have been possible to just waft it my direction...

An N95 means NIOSH 95%. Which means it only filters out 95% of a particulate in the air you respirate. Even ones that may have a charcoal lining, I doubt it would do any good. Vapor is not a particulate. Its more like a gas. Which is something that needs to be trapped by a different means. I have not looked into the organic acid cartridges, but I doubt it has charcoal as a means of filter out these sort of things.

I just got back from doing a treatment about an hour or so on the 3 remaining hives I have.(Lost 1) I put the bottom boards back into the SBB slots to close off that gaping hole. Then I preheated the gun to get the vapor rolling. Took maybe 2-3 minutes to heat it before it started cooking the OA off. Once it starts though, it does not stop until you turn the gun off or run out of OA. I inserted the end to the side of the hive instead of the center. With a positive pressure, I think in theory, applying it this way ought to wash the air inside and distribute it well enough. I let this keep going until I started to see it roll out of the top entrance. Repeated for remaining hive.

Afterwards, I could tell that all 3 were well alive! It certainly did something...

Its not that I would not mind spending some money on something that already works. But I'm looking at a long term goal and there is a void I need to fill in order to make sure I can meet that goal. This is part of that goal.

I need to do more testing and tinkering with it before I start saying much more about the details of the design.


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

When you figure out the details I'd like to hear more about your hopper design. If it helps you, you can get an adjustable heat gun with digital display for less that $60 just google it and look for the best deal


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