# I want to evolve my floral landscape. What's blooming south of NY?



## ShelleyStuart (Jan 4, 2010)

I'm casting about for bee-friendly flora that will flower in October with (or despite) the shorter daylight in the Central NY area. Annual, perennial, shrub, tree, anything's a possibility.

Over the last few years at this time the goldenrod is done, the asters are petering, but it's still warm and the bees are flying -- with nothing to do but try to rob each other out. I see this continuing meteorologically for a good long while. So I am NOT looking for traditional NY flowers. I have a field of goldenrod and asters. I'm looking for recommendations for areas further south of me. Is there anything blooming now in southern PA? Maryland? Similar points west?

Thanks for any suggestions.


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

Shelly
How much space do you have acreage?
Near one of my yards I see a really nice field of Alfalfa, 40 acres or so it is in full bloom, those bees still have wet frames when inspecting.

GG


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Why, a late batch of buckwheat will do.


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## ShelleyStuart (Jan 4, 2010)

Gray Goose said:


> Shelly
> How much space do you have acreage?
> Near one of my yards I see a really nice field of Alfalfa, 40 acres or so it is in full bloom, those bees still have wet frames when inspecting.
> 
> GG


I have a lot of space but not cultivated. We keep the brush down so the goldenrod and milkweed can flourish, but that's about it. It'd be simple enough to share with another crop, though.

Hmm. I wonder if I could convince my neighbor (a farmer) to grow alfalfa or buckwheat.


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

Sumac has good nectar for the space.

something to try next year is to bush hog 1/4 of the space on say Aug 1 and 1/4 on Aug 15th.
the sweet clover and golderrod etc will come back and be a bit later that the unmowed. You can see some of that in the ditches. the bees can get the other acres then have some of yours for late.
A 3rd cutting hay is a similar concept. the plant still tries to bloom as the days are shorter.

so maybe need no plants, need to be able to mow some of the space, at the right time.

GG


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## ShelleyStuart (Jan 4, 2010)

Gray Goose said:


> Sumac has good nectar for the space.
> 
> something to try next year is to bush hog 1/4 of the space on say Aug 1 and 1/4 on Aug 15th.
> the sweet clover and golderrod etc will come back and be a bit later that the unmowed. You can see some of that in the ditches. the bees can get the other acres then have some of yours for late.
> ...


Good idea -- I hadn't thought of forcing the plants I already have to shift. That would be easy enough to do.


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## Zippy69 (Sep 5, 2021)

Why try to make something fit by roto tilling a field to grow a mono crop like buckwheat? Sounds like you have a good source of food that is just earlier than southern areas and benefits native species. If your hive numbers are not off the charts just feed them or figure out your earlier harvest time and hopeful for your early fall flow. I would not till your meadow for the sake of a hopeful crop. Being eco friendly, the milk weed is essential for monarchs and I’m sure the goldenrod with enough rain will provide nectar/pollen. Just my opinion and I’m sure others will disagree.


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## ShelleyStuart (Jan 4, 2010)

Zippy69 said:


> Why try to make something fit by roto tilling a field to grow a mono crop like buckwheat? Sounds like you have a good source of food that is just earlier than southern areas and benefits native species. If your hive numbers are not off the charts just feed them or figure out your earlier harvest time and hopeful for your early fall flow. I would not till your meadow for the sake of a hopeful crop. Being eco friendly, the milk weed is essential for monarchs and I’m sure the goldenrod with enough rain will provide nectar/pollen. Just my opinion and I’m sure others will disagree.


I don't disagree - that's a consideration for me as well. The problem is this new time period after the natives are done, and the weather is telling the bees to go out and find things -- there's nothing to find. (I am starting a feeding program in my hives which I hope helps.) 

Anything I select will be in addition to what's there, and not instead of. There are also plenty of butterflies and bumbles around searching for more resources, so with luck (and planning) I'd have multiple beneficiaries.


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

ShelleyStuart said:


> Good idea -- I hadn't thought of forcing the plants I already have to shift. That would be easy enough to do.


thinking more on the timing, I think mowing in Aug is too late.
I know there is re bloom after first cutting hay and after 2nd cutting, so in that window somewhere is where the sweet spot would be.
You may need to try a single strip across the area every week starting when the locals cut the hay the first time and stop when they cut the second time.
see what has time slot has the better re bloom and the associated time delay and pick a "week" that offers what you want.

GG


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## ShelleyStuart (Jan 4, 2010)

Gray Goose said:


> thinking more on the timing, I think mowing in Aug is too late.
> I know there is re bloom after first cutting hay and after 2nd cutting, so in that window somewhere is where the sweet spot would be.
> You may need to try a single strip across the area every week starting when the locals cut the hay the first time and stop when they cut the second time.
> see what has time slot has the better re bloom and the associated time delay and pick a "week" that offers what you want.
> ...


Excellent idea. I can already envision the test area for this as well.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

ShelleyStuart said:


> Over the last few years at this time the goldenrod is done, the asters are petering, but it's still warm and the bees are flying -- with nothing to do but try to rob each other out. I see this continuing meteorologically for a good long while. So I am NOT looking for traditional NY flowers. I have a field of goldenrod and asters. I'm looking for recommendations for areas further south of me. Is there anything blooming now in southern PA? Maryland? Similar points west?
> 
> Thanks for any suggestions.


one of my project that I never finished was to identify all the different goldenrods in the area and look for varieties that we didn't have, possibly you could find some with a longer growing season and plant them. One of my discussions with my bee buddy was, I moved here in 2003 and helped him pull honey since then, one day leaving his bee yard I said to him what do you notice about that field over there. He looked at me confused, I said when I moved here that field was all goldenrod, now there is no goldenrod in it, seems some of the varieties, at least around here, the shorter golden rod has been replaced by the napp weed, and this year the napp weed didn't produce, then again the goldenrod didn't either.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

wildbranch2007 said:


> one of my project that I never finished was to identify all the different goldenrods in the area and look for varieties that we didn't have,


This is a worthwhile project and can be done.

I know for a fact - about a month later after the Canada Goldenrod is mostly finished, some other goldenrods just exploding.
And so one needs to understand the Goldenrods and use their potential to the fullest.
Pretty sure here - this is not the case (the OP did not indicate anything about the presense or persuing the good spectrum of the Goldenrods).

Here is one Goldenrod variety that I would love to spread everywhere (pics attached).
Tried spreading the seeds but they did not take so far.
There is only one particular place where this species grows in my area - not elsewhere.

This particular species is very much on the same schedule as the asters - very late.
Bees are going crazy on this particular Goldenrod.
Unsure what exact species this is - I could not match to my PDF of the Goldenrods.

A good identification chart is this one (attached).
For example, I know that #5 of this chart is also a late bloomer, grows well in shade, and the bees are working it very well.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

GregV said:


> Unsure what exact species this is - I could not match to my PDF of the Goldenrods.


BTW, if someone can identify this variety - please holler.
Really want to know what species this is.


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## ShelleyStuart (Jan 4, 2010)

GregV said:


> This is a worthwhile project and can be done.
> 
> I know for a fact - about a month later after the Canada Goldenrod is mostly finished, some other goldenrods just exploding.
> And so one needs to understand the Goldenrods and use their potential to the fullest.
> ...


I'm open to pursuing anything that makes sense. I've already scheduled a strip-mowing experiment starting next June to see what I can do. (I'm mindful that I've got ground-nesting birds too, so this will factor in to my eventual plan.)

I've never seen this variety before, and it looks plentiful for bees. (I have heard some varieties don't produce honey for beekeepers (I've heard in the Buffalo area, the GR is this way). Based on your PDF it looks like my field has the Canada goldenrod.

I sent it to my bee club, and they suggest that it's _Solidago speciosa _(showy goldenrod), based on iNaturalist and Plant Identify apps. It's on your PDF, just not with a great picture.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

ShelleyStuart said:


> I've never seen this variety before, and it looks plentiful for bees. (I have heard some varieties don't produce honey for beekeepers (I've heard in the Buffalo area, the GR is this way). Based on your PDF it looks like my field has the Canada goldenrod.
> 
> I sent it to my bee club, and they suggest that it's _Solidago speciosa _(showy goldenrod), based on iNaturalist and Plant Identify apps. It's on your PDF, just not with a great picture.


Thanks for the tip - re: _Solidago speciosa _(showy goldenrod).
The leaves seem to match or very close to what I have.
I highly recommend it.

Stiff Goldenrod (#1) is another great variety for the bees.
They work it well.
It will bloom earlier - similar to Canada Goldenrod.

So, right on this PDF I know of 4 varieties useful for bees already - #1, #5, #6, #14.
There must be more.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

ShelleyStuart said:


> (I have heard some varieties don't produce honey for beekeepers (I've heard in the Buffalo area, the GR is this way)


Oh, but they do. Just need to find the right soil type.
Golden rod produces nectar when on limestone bedrock or in alkaline soils.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

wildbranch2007 said:


> one of my project that I never finished was to identify all the different goldenrods in the area and look for varieties that we didn't have, possibly you could find some with a longer growing season and plant them. One of my discussions with my bee buddy was, I moved here in 2003 and helped him pull honey since then, one day leaving his bee yard I said to him what do you notice about that field over there. He looked at me confused, I said when I moved here that field was all goldenrod, now there is no goldenrod in it, seems some of the varieties, at least around here, the shorter golden rod has been replaced by the napp weed, and this year the napp weed didn't produce, then again the goldenrod didn't either.


Sweeten that field with a couple tons of lime and see the goldenrod produce.


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## Jack Grimshaw (Feb 10, 2001)

Chrysanthemum 'Hillside Sheffield Pink' - Chrysanthemum rubellum plants - Select Seeds


Ray petals in apricot pink with cocoa undertones surround golden yellow tufted centers. Gorgeous in full bloom in late fall, when masses of the single flowers on top of the green leaves and stems create one of the last hurrahs of the northern garden. This graceful antique variety is also one of...




www.selectseeds.com





These are reliable bloomers after the last asters are gone. Will take a light frost.
Full bloom S of Springfield,MA now.

Another late bloomer.








Nipponanthemum - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





These 2 plants are not really suited to field planting but growing around your house or bee yard does give the bees something to do.


Witch hazel is a shrub that has a reliable bloom and will tolerate light shade.The native varieties can bloom into November while the oriental varieties can bloom in Feb.


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## ShelleyStuart (Jan 4, 2010)

FWIW, I stumbled on a (very small) patch of goldenrod in full bloom last Friday. It was in the area I had cleared for the septic to be pumped, and the flowers were weighted down with bees. Now I have a timeline -- that was cut the third week of June.


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