# I believe I'm queenless



## Merlinspop (Nov 4, 2010)

I inspected my new hive last Friday. Couldn't find the queen. Did see some smallish to large larvae, and several queen cups, but none closed. The bees were more cranky than ever before and I took my first inspection sting (I started a thread on that on Saturday).

Went back in today, and still saw no queen, no eggs, and no larvae of any size. Lots and lots of capped brood, with a couple hundred (guess) drone cells, too. I found at least 3 capped queen cells. 

Here's one of them:








The other two capped q-cells were on the edge of other comb and looked like they started as queen cups.

There were many drones in the package when I got it, but only a few of them remain.

The bees seemed a bit calmer than Friday, maybe because they feel they've got a solution to their queenless problem in hand?

But... I don't know of anyone running a hive near me. Am I going to have a problem if there's not many of the package bees left to breed with? I think I can get a queen fairly fast if that would be better.


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## milena (Apr 6, 2010)

Merlinspop, I have a Queen coming in the next few days that I don't really need. I ordered her because I thought I would need to requeen... anyway if you want her you can pick her up in FFX or DC. Let me know.


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## LampBurner (May 4, 2011)

I have a question about a queenless hive myself. I don't know if I should start another thread myself or just ask my question in yours. My question might help you too Merlinspop.
Question is if a hive is queenless, will the forigers still go about their daily busineness of going and coming gathering pollen and necter anyway?
Mine are but: I had a strong colony and think I still do but yesterday I gave someone 2 bars of brood comb (no bees just comb only. We brushed my bees back into my hive) to put in their hive that was weak and hanging by a tread. Last I heard theirs took to it well and seems to be doing better. One of those bars included a healthy looking un-hatched queen cell.
Now I suspect mine might have swarmed because there seems to appear to be about half as many bees in there than there were. If they did swarm, it was just today. I am just a little afraid if they did swarm of course the old queen is now gone and there might not have been a new queen when they did. So then if they are still flying in with pollen on their legs does that mean there is a queen there?
Merlinspop my apalogies if I shouldn't have asked this question on your thread but I thought it was rather related to your situation. LampBurner


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## Adam Foster Collins (Nov 4, 2009)

I think you're probably queenless as your queen cell was capped, so your bees probably did swarm. But if the bees swarm they usually leave behind more than one queen cell. Have you checked all the way through looking for other capped cells?

Adam


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Question is if a hive is queenless, will the forigers still go about their daily busineness of going and coming gathering pollen and necter anyway?

Usually, yes.

>Mine are but: I had a strong colony and think I still do but yesterday I gave someone 2 bars of brood comb (no bees just comb only. We brushed my bees back into my hive) to put in their hive that was weak and hanging by a tread. Last I heard theirs took to it well and seems to be doing better. One of those bars included a healthy looking un-hatched queen cell.

Which should insure a queen for them.

>Now I suspect mine might have swarmed because there seems to appear to be about half as many bees in there than there were. If they did swarm, it was just today.

Half as many bees makes that likely.

> I am just a little afraid if they did swarm of course the old queen is now gone and there might not have been a new queen when they did. So then if they are still flying in with pollen on their legs does that mean there is a queen there?

No.

Do you have a another hive? Give them a frame of eggs and sleep well.

http://bushfarms.com/beespanacea.htm


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## Merlinspop (Nov 4, 2010)

Milena - thanks for the offer, but I think I want to et them go with what they're making. If this turns out to be a bust, maybe I'll try to attract a swarm. Eight good sized combs ought to be fairly attractive.


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## LampBurner (May 4, 2011)

I did a hive inspection this morning. I wanted to check for more queen cells like Adam suggested. The bees seem more testy then they were before, thus a possible indication they might be queenless. I saw about 3 open queen cells and dont know how long ago they hatch or were killed by the queen when she was there. I saw 2 un-hatched queen cells and what looked to be possibly a couple more in development.
I refered back to my class notes and it says 16 days for queen development.
The only other hives I have in operation are Langs. My other top bar hives are under construction. I suppose the option of transferring eggs to this hive from another is out.
Due to the un-hatched queen cells I saw, I think I am going to just leave them the heck alone for at least 3 weeks or so under the assumption they will take care of themself by rareing another queen. It may set back progress for this hive, but not worried about it.
How long is it after a new queen starts laying after becoming impregnated? I understand she goes on her mateing flight just a few days after emerging.
Merlinspop if that is what you are planning to do to by just letting yours produce another queen, I would venture to say you are in very good shape with all those un-hatched queen cells. It is very early in the season and I think our colonies will bounce back. LampBurner


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## Merlinspop (Nov 4, 2010)

Yup, I'm just going to see how it goes for now.

I'm afraid I might have made another boo boo just a while ago. Trying to save time, I used my riding mower and got real close to the hive. Too close, as it turned out, as I bumped a leg. Very surprised I didn't pay a penalty for my error, as I got myself stuck and had to shut down and lift the back end so I could back out without hitting the hive again or running over a new bush. I guess I'll wait a few days and go back in and see. If I just weakened a comb, I'd rather give them a couple days to make their own repairs before I go manhandling bars.


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## Adam Foster Collins (Nov 4, 2009)

Merlinspop,

If you caused a comb collapse, you would likely have seen a major cloud of angry bees come pouring out. So you likely didn't cause any damage.

Lampburner,

If you have emerged queen cells and capped ones, you may have already lost a swarm and an afterswarm, meaning the remaining cells may cast yet another or contain the queen which will finally requeen your hive - in which case you'll be fine once she mates and gets to laying.

I'd say you just leave it be and see how it goes.

Adam


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## Merlinspop (Nov 4, 2010)

Adam Foster Collins said:


> If you caused a comb collapse, you would likely have seen a major cloud of angry bees come pouring out. So you likely didn't cause any damage.


Good to know.

So it was two days ago that I saw the capped queen cells. Assuming that they capped them just that morning, then it'd be 16 days until the first one emerges. They've got 7 bars with comb and 5 more bars to expand into. No feed on, as they weren't taking any anyway. So...

Is there a good reason to open the hive in the next two weeks, or should I just let them alone to do their thing?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>So it was two days ago that I saw the capped queen cells. Assuming that they capped them just that morning, then it'd be 16 days until the first one emerges. 

No. Assuming they were capped just that morning they will emerge in 8 days.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesmath.htm

>Is there a good reason to open the hive in the next two weeks, or should I just let them alone to do their thing? 

Leave them alone for the next three weeks. It will take a week for the queens to emerge and two or three more weeks for them to get mated. I would not expect to find eggs for another three weeks from now.


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## ChetPunisher (Jan 8, 2011)

Any update?


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## Merlinspop (Nov 4, 2010)

I'm trying to take Michael's advice and leave them alone for the most part. I did put in a feeder as we've got an extended rain forecast. Peeking in, I could see that there seemed to be a ton of bees in there, so a lot of the older capped brood must be emerging. Couldn't see any more capped worker brood for all the bees standing on the comb. Did see some drone cells on the edges. This weekend sometime I'll check to see if they've been taking any syrup. 

Thanks for asking. 

Bruce


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## LampBurner (May 4, 2011)

Far as mine go, I'm doing like I said I was going to do by leaving them alone for about 3 weeks except for looking in the window. There appears to me enough bees in there now and foraging as should be. I really never was 100% sure I was queenless.
There is this I have noticed for sure, that is all comb production indeed has ceased. Before what happend I suspected I was queenless, they had nearly filled the hive up in about 7 weeks. I was 3 empty bars short of being full. I gave 2 brood combs (without bees) to someone with a failing hive. That took it back down to just under 1/2 way full. The next day I suspected they swarmed. They have built no more comb since. If the ceasing of comb production is a indication of being queenless, then I certainly am.
I know they are working on producing a new queen. There is one queen cell right there at the glass window I have been watching them construct, and a couple other capped ones I saw when I last inspected the hive nearly a week ago. LampBurner


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## Merlinspop (Nov 4, 2010)

Checked back in today. Only pulled the back 5 of 8 bars to look at, though. All the capped cells (except for less than half a dozen drone cells) I saw two weeks ago are open and are nearly all back filled with nectar/syrup (WAY heavier than I expected them to be). All the queen cells I saw before are gone. They are starting to build on the 9th bar and are festooned on 3 more. It is as if they're in a hurry to build more comb, but I could be just interjecting wishful thinking. No eggs or larvae anywhere, but it looks like they are not filling in any cells inside a 3-4 inch circle in the center of each comb. Again, I'm hoping they're making preparations for a new queen to start laying. 

I did a peek in on Monday and they had only taken a small bit of the syrup I put in there for them a few days before. Today, more than half the jar was empty. We're leaving on a long weekend trip on Friday, so mid morning I think I'll put a fresh jar in and leave them another week.


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