# New Oxalic Acid Pipe



## magnet-man (Jul 10, 2004)

Well I tried my new oxalic acid pipe today. And I am quite happy with its performance. My old pipe was the standard brass pipe with fittings and I was quite shocked by how much it cost to make. After all you are only talking about a few brass pieces, but Home Depot is quite proud of their brass. The one problem I have with metal pipes are you dont quite know what is going. 

With that in mind I made a new pipe using lab glass. I made my pipe with the following materials. 8mm Pyrex Tubing, number 2 solid rubber stopper, and a 20 x 150mm Pyrex test tube. Here is a picture of the pipe. Sorry about the picture quality. http://members.cox.net/wsamplesis/pictures/OApipe.jpg 

I treated 7 hives today with no problems. I could see the acid boil, turn into a vapor and knew exactly when I was out of acid. The test tube also cools very quickly and is easy to reload. The Pyrex tube is about 10 inches long so it reaches well into the hive. What is nice is there are no oxalic fumes escaping from the pipe anywhere. 

I was concerned with the glass cracking from thermal stress but Pyrex is really tough.

I bought some items in bulk and have some extras. If anyone wants one they are $6.00 each plus shipping. I will bend the tube and drill the rubber stopper for you.

Just e-mail me.


[This message has been edited by magnet-man (edited December 05, 2004).]


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## BWrangler (Aug 14, 2002)

Hi Guys,

Is this neat or what? I've used a plex cover to watch the fumes. I've inserted a thermocouple to determine how the heat affects a hive. But I've never watched the process in the evaporator itself.

Regards
Dennis

[This message has been edited by topbarguy (edited November 14, 2004).]


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## magnet-man (Jul 10, 2004)

I just sold two and have five left. I do not accept pay pal. Just e-mail me your address and your beesource name. When you recieve your pipe just send me a check for $6.00 plus what ever the postage was on the package.

I will work on the honor system with board members.

[This message has been edited by magnet-man (edited November 14, 2004).]


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## Guest (Nov 15, 2004)

Officer, what are you talking about?

I'm NOT a crack addict! I use this
to treat my beehives so the little mites
that hang on tham will die, and the bees
will live... no, I'm NOT hallucinating 
right now, that's the story - I'm a beekeeper.

How do I use it? Well, I take these 
crystals, and heat them up in the tube
until they turn to a gas... why are you
smiling like that, and what are you
doing with those handcuffs?


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## Walt McBride (Apr 4, 2004)

topbarguy: Thanks for your developement of your models of the OA evaporator.

magnet-man: Thanks for your visual improvement on it.

Now I am going to try to electrify it for 12V. Thanks again guys!
Walt


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## dickm (May 19, 2002)

Congratulations on thinking sideways.
I have the same reservations I have with the other pipes however. You are standing very close to what must be a very corrosive gas/vapor. I use the 12 volt unit and can walk away from it while it's heating. Still, on occasion, I've gotten a little of it. It's more like a feeling in the throat and I've also gotten a runny nose. I don't think there's been enough said about being careful. I don't think adding glass to the equation helps my fears. I'm going to keep using it but with a board this big, composed of people of all skills, it's only a question of time before someone gets hurt.
Calm me down. How bad is the vapor if breathed? Has anyone gotten a big whiff? I will stay with the JB200 because I can stay upwind. $80 isn't too bad and it costs at least something for a "crack Pipe".

Thanks,

Dickm


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## dickm (May 19, 2002)

Just another thought. Has anyone thought of building a permanent brass tube into the bottom board in such a way that one could make a quick connect to the burner? That way one could load a dozen test tubes (Or brass equivalent)at home, then hook up your hives all at once and walk down the line with a torch. Next phase would include wrapping the test tube (I still worry about glass)in toaster wire and hooking up to a battery. We'll get this done yet!

Dickm


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Not that I would ever do it,but it would be simple to make holders for 2 propane torches so 4 crack pipes could be used in rotation by one operator.2 torches are propped up by the holders to heat the pipes inserted in the hive vent holes, while the other 2 are cooling(dipped in water)then re-filled.No need to be anywhere near the vapors.BUT DONT COOL HOT GLASS IN WATER!This would just be for METAL pipes.


[This message has been edited by loggermike (edited November 15, 2004).]


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

> I will stay with the JB200 because I can stay upwind. $80 isn't too bad...(snip)

Compared to a hospital visit, it's nothing. I researched and bought the proper mask and filters, (posted info on another thread last year), and now don't feel the need to use it with the JB200, but like Walt, I do occasionally get a small wiff from a distance.


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## wishthecuttlefish (Jun 24, 2003)

I always use a gas masked with an organic vapor rated filter, as well as goggles. However, once I removed my mask a bit too early and got a whiff of the stuff. It definately wasn't pleasant. 

My vapor pipe (the short brass version) requires me to basically stand next to the hive to heat it up. I've decided that for next year I am going to move to a different type. For a gas mask to be truly effective you should get fit tested and the cartridges should be changed regularly.


Kai


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## magnet-man (Jul 10, 2004)

Dickm, the Pyrex tubing is pretty cheap and tough. I am using the Pyrex because I was curious as to what was going on. You could very easily replace it with brass tubing sold at hobby shops. It really doesnt take long to stick the tube in the hive and seal the opening. Yesterday I used just plain old toilet paper. I dont think you would derive any benefit by building a brass tube into each hive.

The Pyrex tubing is really good at taking thermal shock. You can hit it with the torch and nothing happens to it. On the tubes that I have been I have not broken one due to thermal shock.

As far as people being concerned about shattering the test tube when heated, remember this is lab glass. It is made out of borosilicate. If you have any glass cooking pots they are made out of borosilicate. Here are some details about borosilicate glass.
http://www.glasswearstudios.com/webpages/differentglass.html 
http://www.machinedesign.com/BDE/materials/bdemat7/bdemat7_3.html 


I did put a crack in a test tube last night. I was doing some testing and hit the bottom of a hot test tube against a cold brick. I put a hairline fracture in the test tube but it did not shatter. I dont know if the crack was due to the blow or thermal shock or a combination of both. (Added note: Did more testing the next day. Determined the crack was do to hitting brick. Heated a test tube up and placed it on cast iron table saw and it did not crack. Tried this test repeatedly.)

In my high school and college chemistry classes I dont remember anyone breaking a test tube while heating it. I remember you could drop these things and they would usually not break. 

As for vapor escaping I have not seen any or breathed any. The end of the tube is in the middle of the hive and all of the entrances are sealed. Once I am done I pull the tube straight out and leave the paper. There is a space left the size that will allow one bee at a time to leave. I am not sure that you would really need to remove the toilet paper. I had one hive remove their own the other day when I was using it to prevent robbing. I let the test tube cool before I open it and hold it down wind.

I think one solution for people who are really concerned about the glass breaking is to use brass tubing from a hobby shop. Turn the end shut on a lathe or crimp the end and stick it into a test tube stopper. You could still use the Pyrex tube to monitor when you were out of acid.


[This message has been edited by magnet-man (edited November 15, 2004).]


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## magnet-man (Jul 10, 2004)

Loggermike, if you were going to make 75 of these up you can get the cost down to $2.28 each plus shipping. The most expense part is the tubing. If you were to make 75 and only 10 tubes you can get the cost down to $1.07 each. You could load the test tubes up the night before and go to town the next day.

The tubing is $2.80 for a 24 inch length. That is the most expensive item.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Well thats pretty low priced all right.And the rapid cooling of the glass is a plus.Good thinking!!


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## magnet-man (Jul 10, 2004)

Has anyone tried their pipe yet?

Magnet-man

P.S. Jfischer I finally made bail the other day. I had to send the girls out to sell acid on the street corner.


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## Jerry C (Feb 7, 2004)

Where are you getting your glass tubing, stoppers and test tubes? Is there a site on the web you can recommend? I never liked the idea that you didnt know when you should stop heating the brass pipe.


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## magnet-man (Jul 10, 2004)

http://www.macnanbio.com/ 

Make sure the glass is borosilicate or Pyrex. One glass tube will make to pipes so purchase two test tubes and stoppers.


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## dcross (Jan 20, 2003)

Just gave mine a try (also dropped the check in the mail, sorry that took so long), I got a little bit of vapor right away, then it started boiling, and pretty much all vaporized at once. The tube was cool enough to handle with thin cotton gloves after less than a minute.


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## magnet-man (Jul 10, 2004)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Just gave mine a try<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How many hives did you treat?
Did you vaporize at the bottom entrance? 
Did any vapor escape?

Don't worry about the delay with the check.


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## dickm (May 19, 2002)

Got mine and sent the check. What was the extra piece of glass tubing for?

dickm


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## magnet-man (Jul 10, 2004)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>What was the extra piece of glass tubing for?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It is to play with.







Try to give it a good thermal shock and see if it will crack. We also talked about attaching wire to the test tube. You can use this as glue once you heat it. Look at how I joined the two pieces together.

[This message has been edited by magnet-man (edited November 29, 2004).]


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## Walt McBride (Apr 4, 2004)

magnet-man; In your reply post to dickm on his question on "what is the extra glass tubing for?" Your reply was use it for glue once you heat it. Does that mean melt the glass? I am looking for something to anchor the Nichrome wire to the test tube. It will be about 5 turns for the 12 volts to heat the OA. I hope!
Walt


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## magnet-man (Jul 10, 2004)

Walt, you are right on target. If you heat the end of the glass tubing for a long period of time, the tip will become sticky like taffy. I would suggest that MAAP gas would be better than propane because it gets hotter and the glass should be easier to work with. Make sure the glass you are using as glue to attach the wire is borosiclicate, Pyrex, glass; otherwise it can't take the thermal shock when the wire heats up. 

Walt if you e-mail me your daytime phone number, I can call you from my office. We have an unlimited long-distance phone plan. I have a couple of ideas you might be interested in on how to attach the wires.


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## dickm (May 19, 2002)

I assume nichrome wire is like toaster wire?
Where do you get it? I thought of wreckig a toaster. Then I realized that the toaster had a timed switch in it too. Then I said to h*** with it I'll just put the test tube in a toaster!

dickm


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## magnet-man (Jul 10, 2004)

Nichrome wire is what is used in toasters and hair dryers. You can also find it on eBay.


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## dcross (Jan 20, 2003)

<<How many hives did you treat?
Did you vaporize at the bottom entrance? 
Did any vapor escape?>>

I didn't treat any, just stuck it through a knot hole in my garage so I could try it out, new toy and all







I treated all my overwintered hives three times in early spring, and my new packages once before they had any capped brood, from the bottom, I plugged the entrance with paper towels but left the upper entrance and screen bottom boards wide open, so the vapor all escaped, but all my hives were dropping less than 10 mites/day in late August, so I didn't treat this fall.


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## Guest (Dec 2, 2004)

Hi Guys,

Is the nichrome going inside or outside the tube?

Regards
Dennis


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## chemistbert (Mar 4, 2004)

My guees is that you would want the wire outside the tube. I don't know if OA will eat at the wire if it is inside the tube. I'll have to look that one up.


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## Jerry C (Feb 7, 2004)

magnet-man

Got my glass from Macnanbio and built 4 pipes. They worked great. You can see when the oa is gone and when the glass tube is building up with oa. Found it is very helpful to warm the entire tube, this kept the fumes from condensing in the delivery tube. I had one tube break as soon as I put heat on it the others were used over and over with no problems. Buy extra tubes. I am going to mess with heating it with 12 volts. Will try your glue toaster wire with glass idea. I think that a very wide wrap of wire starting at the top and the wraps getting closer toward the bottom will keep the whole tube warm and provide enough heat to vaporize the oa. Another way might be to make a holder that would use a 12 volt halogen headlight bulb for a heat source. Once again a great idea. Thanks!


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## Ricko (May 18, 2004)

Check with your local police department. They usually have a lot of glassware on hand after busting the local Meth lab!

Serious though,a pyrex test-tube, some flint glass tubing and two black rubber corks with holes can be purchased at any store that carries chemstry supplies. The flint glass with a little heat applied will bend into any shape you want. So you were wondering what else to do with that vent hole on the back side of your super? Bend a piece of flint glass into an "L" shape. Push the short leg of the glass through the stopper and push the stopper onto the test tube. 
Run the other end of the flint tube (longer leg) through the second stopper and push that stopper into the vent hole. Now you've got your test tube hanging from the super with the longer end sticking into the hive. 
You could set up a half dozen of these and walk right down the line applying heat. By the time you get to no.6, no.1 is ready to be pulled and reloaded. As for the vent hole, stick a solid rubber stopper in it for the duration of the treatment. Sounds pretty simple and effective.


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