# apistan strips/ apiguard



## larrymn (Sep 3, 2011)

for those that have use either apigaurd or apistan strips, what one to you worked the best? pro-v-cons?


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## wildbeekeeper (Jul 3, 2010)

i wouldnt use apistan.... too much chance of resistance. Apiguard works nicely wen used properly and at the right times. I used it on all of my hives last year with no issues and good mite kill.


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## Michael Johnston (Nov 25, 2007)

Apistan was the first miticide that we used in 1993 when the mites first came through. After a number of years, it doesn't work since the surviving mites become immune to it. Apiguard is based on thymol. Thymol is from the thyme plant and is not a nasty pesticide that you would fear contaminating your food. Apiguard can kill brood if temperatures are too high. It hasn't been out that long so we'll have to see if mites develop a tolerance for it.


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## Katharina (May 2, 2011)

There will be warnings out pretty soon about both of those chemicals. They do more harm to the bees then thought. They've found that if there are fungicides being used you are at risk. Apparently they interact in the hive hurting the bees. See:
http://www.extension.org/pages/62125/the-managed-pollinator-cap-after-three-years:-highlights-and-emerging-trends


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## larrymn (Sep 3, 2011)

forgot to add this what about hopgauard? or what do you use to control mites?


larrymn said:


> for those that have use either apigaurd or apistan strips, what one to you worked the best? pro-v-cons?


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Katharina said:


> There will be warnings out pretty soon about both of those chemicals. They do more harm to the bees then thought. They've found that if there are fungicides being used you are at risk. Apparently they interact in the hive hurting the bees. See:
> http://www.extension.org/pages/62125/the-managed-pollinator-cap-after-three-years:-highlights-and-emerging-trends


Not seeing anything here about apiguard (thymol). You are aware it is a much different product than fluvalinate? Neither one is a fungicide which isn't really the topic here.


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## Ben Brewcat (Oct 27, 2004)

Apiguard is totally different than Apistan, and is not discussed in the CAP article linked. They are discussing agricultural fungicides, which are applied to crops by farmers.


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## Katharina (May 2, 2011)

Neither are fungicides, but when there are problems when there are fungicides are used in your area. The bees bring the fungicide back into the hive with pollen. Later the fungicide will interact with coumaphos and fluvalinate in the hive. The problem is that they don't know how much it hurts individual hives, because it also depends on how much fungicide is in the hive. It all depends on where you are at. The University of FL also points out problems with both mite products in their varroa mite video. Unfortunately they do no go into details as to why. Good video to watch, and check out all the other videos. http://entnemdept.ifas.ufl.edu/honeybee/extension/index.shtml
Good news is you can use screened bottom boards to reduce mites by 15%. Add drone cell frames, which you freeze regularly, and you can add another 35-40%. Just those two measures cut by 50%. 
I'm trying to stay organic with my bees, and being 10 miles away from any agricultural activity and human housing does help. I have been using Hopguard with great success, but I do not use it as they tell one package. My hives dismantle the strips in a week, so I put new strips in weekly for 3 weeks in a row.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Katharine: Let's not confuse the intent of this thread. apiguard is an essential oil similar in many ways to Hopguard. Apistan is fluvalinate. Fungicides are a good topic for another thread.


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## Ben Brewcat (Oct 27, 2004)

Not defending or endorsing any particular product, just clarifying so everyone knows that ApiGuard is simply essential oil of thyme in a gel product for controlling dosing (considered organic by most), and not at all related to coumaphos or tau-fluvalinate. Which do have a long and well-documented history of toxicity to bees, tolerance and resistance in mites, accumulation in comb, etc.

I'm looking forward to trying HopGuard this year too.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

...a few notes:

1. "Apiguard" is made from synthetic thymol, not an "essential oil" extracted from thyme plants.

2. Penn state has reported issues with thymol...at least enough evidence that they decided not to use it on their bees a couple of years ago (even though they had already purchased it)...according to Maryann Frazier, this was an increased permiability of the bee cuticle to other pesticides when thymol was present.

3. From Bee-L:



> We present data for hives treated with five
> different acaricides; Apiguard (thymol), Apistan (tau-fluvalinate),
> Checkmite (coumaphos), Miteaway (formic acid) and ApiVar (amitraz).
> The results indicate that thymol, coumaphos and formic acid are able
> ...


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

"The results indicate that thymol, coumaphos and formic acid are able to alter some metabolic responses."

And yet Alberta beeks have dropped their losses dramatically with formic and Randy Oliver has had great success with thymol.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

...and feeding antibiotics to livestock makes them grow faster
...and for years beekeepers got positive results with coumophos
...and randy oliver thinks his bees on HSC "refuse to die" because of the miticidal offgassing of the frames

anything that has an effect has both "positive" and "negative" effects (sometimes the same effect is both positive and negative).

deknow


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## Ben Brewcat (Oct 27, 2004)

Didn't know that the thymol was synthetically derived in Apiguard. Aspirin, once extracted from trees, is now synthesized as are most pharmaceuticals that are phyto-derived (which is a great big lot of them). They have the same benefits and risks as their natural counterparts. Does it matter (why the distinction)? How to they differ?


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