# Black vs white foundation



## honeyman46408 (Feb 14, 2003)

I use black for brood because it makes eggs eaiser to see and white for honey supers but I dont think it makes any differance just as long as the bees draw the comb.


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## kiwiBee (Jul 23, 2009)

I've never seen black foundation is it black because the wax it's made from is old or is it black because it's dyed or something?
kiwi


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

I use BLACK WAXED RITE-CELL FOUNDATION from mann lake. Black makes it much easier to see the eggs. I use it in wood frames. I bought 1000 of them last time I was in Sacramento. I added wrong so now I have 800 spares.

http://www.mannlakeltd.com/ProductDetail.asp?idproduct=558&idCategory=


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

Around here the primary difference is about 10 seconds. In Summer, if you set a comb in the sun, the comb will melt off the plastic base in 30 or 40 seconds (30 seconds for the black ones and 40 seconds for the white ones).


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## chevydmax04 (May 11, 2009)

EastSideBuzz said:


> I use BLACK WAXED RITE-CELL FOUNDATION from mann lake. Black makes it much easier to see the eggs. I use it in wood frames. I bought 1000 of them last time I was in Sacramento. I added wrong so now I have 800 spares.
> 
> http://www.mannlakeltd.com/ProductDetail.asp?idproduct=558&idCategory=


Well at least if you look at expanding your pretty well set on foundation! LOL


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## honeydreams (Aug 10, 2009)

Black or white Rite cell foundation is fine the bees don't care. I just use the black for Brood easier to see eggs as my arms have shrunk with age.


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

chevydmax04 said:


> Well at least if you look at expanding your pretty well set on foundation! LOL


Plan was to add 20 packages, wound up with 30 and later this summer will have splits. So who knows what numbers I will wind up with.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

kiwiBee said:


> I've never seen black foundation is it black because the wax it's made from is old or is it black because it's dyed or something?
> kiwi


It's plastic.


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## blueskybeesupply (Dec 11, 2007)

Brushy's "Superframes" are actually Pierco products, which more than a few suppliers carry, including us.

In our experience, the bees seem to draw out the black a little faster. Can't say why--less light refraction in the hive? For that reason, and primarily because it's easier to see eggs and larvae on recently drawn foundation, we use black for brood.

However, we normally use white for our honey supers, because it is a little easier to "grade" the honey color in the frame.

Obviously, once drawn, both will work equally well. 

Aged comb on black sometimes looks darker than it actually is, so we are more likely to cull these frames and scrape them down, which isn't necessarily a bad thing--it keeps things fresher.


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## honeyman46408 (Feb 14, 2003)

It looks like they draw the black faster but I think it is because yo can see wax on black eaiser than on white :scratch:


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## Countryboy (Feb 15, 2009)

As stated, it's easier to see eggs on the black plastic frames. I know people who like to run white frames in their honey supers because they can see what color the honey is.


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## nabeehive (Oct 23, 2009)

Can the bee really destinguish the color differance in the dark? There is little or no light in the hive. Only us humans see it in the light. I have been told the bee's draw the black quicker in side by side test.


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## Countryboy (Feb 15, 2009)

I doubt it matters if bees can distinguish colors of plastic frames. The colors are for the benefit of us humans.

_I have been told the bee's draw the black quicker in side by side test. _

For brood cells or for honey storage cells? I can see the bees preferring black for brood as it would hold the heat better. Bees often prefer to raise brood in old black combs over light fresh ones. I have heard experienced beekeepers say they believe this is because the old black combs absorb the heat and act like incubators.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

> I can see the bees preferring black for brood as it would hold the heat better.


:scratch:

in the dark, plastic is plastic...


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## Grant (Jun 12, 2004)

I use both colors and cannot discern any difference. I also give all my plastic foundation a generous coating of melted beeswax which really accelerates the acceptance.

I don't bother to look for eggs--takes too long. If I got capped brood in a nice pattern I don't even bother tracking down that queen.

Grant
Jackson, MO


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

I got mine pre-waxed. Does it need more wax?

Kingfisher


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## iwombat (Feb 3, 2009)

The black frames are going to hold heat better - yes even in the (visible spectrum) dark. When I teach classes, I recommend they start out with black plastic in wood frames. They can get used to seeing eggs and larvae on the black background, then they can switch to whatever they want later and re-use the frames.

You can see the honey color on the lighter frames.


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## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

I prefer the yellow plasticell coated. Easy to see eggs and the bees draw it better than the pierco(at least for me).


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## jsharum (Mar 29, 2010)

iwombat said:


> When I teach classes, I recommend they start out with black plastic in wood frames.


why wood frames over one piece plastic?


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## iwombat (Feb 3, 2009)

Wood frames so they can change their minds later should they wish to switch to wax or foundationless, or whatever. All plastic is sunk cost if they decide that they'd rather use something else. I carefully explain all that in class. Some go right to one-piece plastic foundation & frames anyway. That's what I use.

I've seen too many new beeks really struggle with seeing eggs & larvae to not recommend at least some black plastic frames to start out.


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## blueskybeesupply (Dec 11, 2007)

We like plastic one piece frames, because you hardly need a hive tool to inspect. However, a drawback is that there are more recesses for hive beetle to hide in one piece frames. Also, we feel that a little more wood helps absorb/regulate extra moisture in extreme temp conditions/fluctuations. So, we like wood/black plastic for brood and one-piece for honey. It just depends how much time we have to build, when we need equipment (and what we have an excess of).


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

iwombat said:


> The black frames are going to hold heat better - yes even in the (visible spectrum) dark.


I'd like to read about this if someone has a link...


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## iwombat (Feb 3, 2009)

Ok to be more precise. They're going to absorb radiant energy better (including infra-red light) and radiate that energy as heat. You'll find that in any basic science book.


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

BeeCurious said:


> I'd like to read about this if someone has a link...


Check out this link. They talk about it there http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=241372


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