# new in ohio



## krista45036 (Oct 7, 2014)

hello to all!

i am getting serious about a first hive and need to learn more.

I live on 5 acres in SW Ohio. thinking i will get a top bar (or 2?) this winter and bees in the spring. My goals are helping bees and having local honey to reduce my allergies, wax for crafts would be a bonus. My current plan is for a natural non-medicated hive. I like the top bar cuz i'm not too young and have a bad back. 

which breed of bee is recommended for an inexperienced person in my area?

thx in advance,
krista


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Welcome to Beesource!


My opinion is that starting with at least _two _hives will do more to get you off to a good start than fussing about the breed of bees that you start with.

Most bee packages and nucs available are Italian bees and they are likely to do fine in Ohio. If you find that you really do want a different breed, you can replace the existing queen in an established hive with a one from a different breed, and in relatively short order the colony will follow along as new bees replace the older ones.


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## burns375 (Jul 15, 2013)

I wouldnt.get a top bar..start with standard foundation in a lang...do all mediums 8frame mediums if cant lift heavy weights, then move onto foundatjonaless if u prefer that, maybe the following year make a spring.split into a top bar


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## krista45036 (Oct 7, 2014)

Graham - i sort of get why 2 is better, and thx for the direction on bee types.

Burns - pls explain why. reminder that my goals are personal and not commercial. langs seem like more hassle for the bees, more parts, more weight.... 


thx,
krista


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## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

Welcome Krista!
The bees probably do not care which type you use, though easier comb manipulation is easier on the bees (+1 for Lang)
Frames and top bars weigh about the same each..
Same number of parts if you secure the bottom board to the hive body.
The hive that is easier for the beekeeper to manage is likely to be healthier. (+1 lang)
If you have ants or small hive beetles they are more prevalent in TBH.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

There is also a sort of a combination of a Lang and Top Bar hive that is often called a horizontal hive. It uses a longer horizontal body like a top bar hive, but accepts standard frames. The main hive box is never lifted (after installation) so weight management is not an issue. The frames are similar to top bars from a management perspective, but combs are less fragile as there is wood on all 4 sides. You can use foundation with this style, or choose to be foundationless. 

A key difference is that since the frames are standard, you can buy/trade frames of bees with other beekeepers using standard Lang style hives. Also, you could choose to use an extractor to harvest honey, rather than crush-n-strain with a top bar hive.

More on horizontal hives here:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beeshorizontalhives.htm

Unlike a top bar, it is possible to add/expand vertically with a super or two if your bees are that productive - but that does bring weight management issues back into the picture.


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## bbruff22 (Dec 24, 2013)

Hello from NE Kansas! I'm first year, and while I have some local contacts, I love this site and read threads out here constantly. You've got some super strong input already, and I couldn't add a thing. I will say that I'm contemplating a horizontal hive, so I can have some benefits of a tbh, with the standard frames of a lang. Good luck to you!


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## drlonzo (Apr 15, 2014)

Krista - The only thing that I would add to what Graham has told you about the "Long Lang" is that although it does offer the best of both worlds when it comes to movable frames, going foundationless, and weight management, there is one thing to note that lots of TBH beeks talk about is how gentle the bees are while manipulating the bars. Some say it's due to not having the whole top of the hive open at once. For this reason, I would suggest if thinking about the "Long Lang" and IMO you should, look into either making or buying a long lang that has multiple small migratory style top covers. By opening up only sections at a time of 5 frames you will minimize the amount of bees in the air at one time, and as a first time beekeeper, that's one of the things that will help you get comfortable. Also, if planning for either one TBH or Long Lang, do yourself and bees a great favor and put your entrance to either one end or the other and not in the middle. 

With that I hope you find that beekeeping is fun and rewarding. Welcome to the forum!


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

"thinking i will get a top bar (or 2?) this winter and bees in the spring. My goals are helping bees and having local honey to reduce my allergies, wax for crafts would be a bonus."

I have top bar, long box, and 8 frame and 10 frame Langstroths with deep and with medium brood boxes. I don't keep any bees in the top bar at this time. I also have and use 4 frame and 8 frame nucs. The Langstroth is an elegant design that lets me work with and among the bees. With the Langstroth, I can see into the boxes better and can manipulate the frames more easily and with less disruption to the bees. It seems more complicated or harder to work than a top bar, but for me, it simply isn't. Medium 8 frame boxes are much easier for me to work with than 10 frame mediums or 8 or 10 frame deeps. My first hive was a 10 frame deep. My last will be an 8 frame medium. I like having the different kinds of hives to compare, but I do not plan on getting anything but 8 frame Langstroth's in the future.

"which breed of bee is recommended for an inexperienced person in my area?"

In your area and considering your desire for "a non-medicated hive", I would use Russian or VSH. Each breed or line has advantages and disadvantages and your selection is a trade off. Good local bees that have fared well regardless of breed are are solid choice. There is more information about breeds here: http://www.bushfarms.com/beesraces.htm.

"thx in advance"
You're welcome in arrears.


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## awebber96 (May 28, 2012)

Welcome from Dayton.

Three thoughts on your post: 

1. Take it from someone who started with one hive: you'll want two to start. There are dozens of posts on beesource extolling the virtues of two vs one for starting in beekeeping. Check them out.
2. If you are starting out, look for local beekeepers selling nucs. Nucs will give you a great head start and some drawn comb. Starting with packages on hives with no foundation built up can be rough. I have bought several nucs from Dan Williams in the Circleville area http://williamshoneybees.webs.com. His nucs are worth every penny. Nucs are also likely to be on langstroth frames, which is another reason why you may want to avoid top bars to start.
3. You say that one of your primary motivations is to get local honey. That's great, but dont count on local honey to cure allergies: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/10/health/10really.html?_r=0. 

Good luck, and take advantage of your local Warren Co. beekeepers' assn.


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## WilliamsHoneyBees (Feb 17, 2010)

Thanks Adam! :thumbsup:


Krista I have two used top-bar hives with no bees or comb that I would sell. Both will probably need painted and have side windows to view inside. E-mail me for more information. [email protected] However, I wouldn't recommend them. I find Langstroth hives quicker to build up, easier to harvest, and easier to feed. If you are concerned about weight you can go with all mediums, lots of new beekeepers are going that route. Either way you go the decision to keep bees is the correct one! HAHA


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## crewdog61 (Oct 23, 2012)

Xenia, Ohio
Welcome, Take a bee course Bee keeping 101, Read, watch videos and read some more, get with local bee keepers ask tons of questions. Maybe look into going to the Bee Conference in Plan City November 1. Always something to learn as said in other post Langstroth would be the best for a new bee keeper.


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## krista45036 (Oct 7, 2014)

wow! thanks for all the info! i will investigate the horizontal hive..... especially like the idea of multiple lids from drlonzo
on warren co beekeepers - want to get to a meeting this fall  i think they do a bee school also.
on local honey - seemed to help a bit, bought from a guy down the road
on bee conference - i looked at that & might go. wondered if it would be over my head


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## crewdog61 (Oct 23, 2012)

I thought the same thing 2 years ago about going to a Conference, got to see all the bee venders, sat in on different talks about bees was really glad I went.


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## fruitveggirl (Mar 8, 2013)

Welcome to BeeSource, Krista! 

I researched so many hives before I got my first one -- Lang, horizontal Langs, TBHs, Warres, Perones, sun hives, etc., etc. What helped me was doing a sort of pro/con comparison of the hives I was most interested in. In the end, I felt that KTBHs were the right fit for me, and I really, really love them. Good luck finding the right one for you!

Regarding the best bees to get, I've had very good luck with treatment-free local mutts from surviving stock. Last year I got a TBH nuc, and the bees were wonderfully gentle, healthy, prolific and vigorous. This year, I bought 2 "shook swarms" from noted TBH guy Sam Comfort, and my girls are just fantastic. 

In buying bees, I would offer two bits of advice:
1) My experience is that TF, local, overwintered stock sells out very quickly, so if that's what you'd like to get, get your order in early (like January or early February). If you do order too late, you can always requeen with a local queen.
2) Before you purchase, check out your supplier to make sure that he/she has a good reputation. My first year, I ordered from a supplier who turned out to have a reputation ranging from so-so to terrible. Unfortunately, I didn't find that out until after placing my order. I was one of the lucky few who got great bees in the nuc that I received and a timely refund for the nuc that I didn't get. However, I spent months worried that I might not get bees or a refund.


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## fruitveggirl (Mar 8, 2013)

One other thing -- In response to the people who say Langs are best for beginners. I've heard this statement made frequently, and the primary reason it's made, I think, is because there are more resources geared toward Langs. More people use them, more beekeeping clubs and catalogs cater to them, it's easier to swap equipment, easier to get nucs, etc.

However, my experience is that TBHs are gaining in popularity, and there is a lot of support for TBH beeks now. BeeSource has an awesome TBH forum as does BioBees.com. FB has numerous TBH groups. As a result, I feel like I've got hundreds of mentors who've got my back. There are also some great books (love Les Crowder's book and Wyatt Mangum's book in particular. Christy Hemenway and Phil Chandler also have some popular books.) Additionally, YouTube provides many wonderful videos on TBHs, and there are lots of great blogs as well.

Plus, there are a couple of advantages of working with TBHs. When you work with unframed combs, you learn to be very gentle, very careful very fast. Also, during a strong flow, the bees require more management. This is probably not a good thing for a professional with tons of hives, for a backyard beek like me, it means more opportunities to interact with and observe bees. While reading and watching videos are good ways of accumulating info, nothing can teach you about bees like the bees themselves. Mentally, observing them is both relaxing and stimulating. More than harvesting honey or wax, just hanging out with the bees is my favorite part of beekeeping.


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## BeeTech (Mar 19, 2012)

The matter of top bar vs langstroth is an ongoing debate with proponents on both sides. What is generally acknowledged is that top bar requires much more management and experience. They are not generally recommended for new beekeepers. If you need lighter loads you might consider an 8 frame medium langstroth configuration. Two is much better than one, but one is much better than none.


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## krista45036 (Oct 7, 2014)

hi guys - 
u have all been very helpful and supplied direction for my research. i have re-read yr responses multiple times, each time with another layer of understanding.

*maybe i have bee-fever:* today has been spent on bee education. the ohio state beekeepers assoc has a really nice web-based training, and i went thru all of it. greatest gain was putting images to the names of all the parts & pieces of a traditional langstroth hive. i could identify a queen or a drone if given long enough to look. (haha need to train my eyes) i also spent a lot of time on michael bush's website, learning about other types of hives, and more bee info. _ i have barely a clue about brood, uncapped or otherwise._ i only know its important; i could point out an elongated cell, but i dont know if its a queen or a swarm cell. gotta go through all that another time.

what i know so far: i will start with 2 hives. i have several good locations at my place, and will think about that some more.
- is it better to put 2 starter hives apart or close together? all locations are accessible

i will attend the OSBA conf this nov maybe i will meet some warren co folks while i'm there; plan to attend local meeting this fall/winter.

my hives will be TF, but not hands-off  i believe in 'survival of the fittest' from a constitutional perspective, but know that everybody needs a hand now & then. so i will look again at all the feeding articles (OSBA had great stuff here). sometimes our winters are severe, other times not so bad. _i also have NO IDEA how to estimate adequate honey stores for wintering._

really open question: though i want to go foundationless, should i use some foundation to start the first frame in the first hive? (OK - spoiler alert: i think i want a horiz lang and a ktbh , both with windows)

point of this post is to say thanks for the valuable info, and to let u know i'm using what u give me. 

krista


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## fruitveggirl (Mar 8, 2013)

krista45036 said:


> hi guys -
> what i know so far: i will start with 2 hives. i have several good locations at my place, and will think about that some more.
> - is it better to put 2 starter hives apart or close together? all locations are accessible
> 
> ...


Usually, people start with a minimum of two hives at each location because it's easier to swap resources in the event of an emergency. If you want one KTBH and one Lang, consider making the top bars so that they will fit inside your Lang. That way, you'll have a little flexibility. However, you can't put Lang frames into a KTBH unless you do a "chop and crop."

Regarding foundation, I would recommend hanging a bit of straight comb from your top bars or making wedged bars. Or you could put a groove in your bars and add some wax starter strips (either cut foundation or make your own strips like in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-oD33LFp7E

You could do the same for your Lang frames.


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