# can you run bees out of a tree???



## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

While we make *no claims* about the
usefulness of Bee-Quick in such applications
due to the usual boring product liability
implications, we have been told by beekeepers
skilled in bee removals that they have found 
the product to be very useful in a number of
tricky situations.

These folks clearly understand that they are
ignoring the instructions, and using the product
in a very risk-prone task, so we can't stop them
from misusing the product.

I think that any job that involves bees, ladders
chainsaws, and such is one to think long and
hard about. The value of a swarm is much less
than the cost of even minor medical treatment.


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## Bubba (Mar 17, 2006)

You could probably get the workers and the drones out that way but probably not the queen.Then you have a bunch ob bee's and no brood. Just saw the tree down and split it in half with a axe and sledgehammer. Then tye the old brood comb in some empty frames. Just no sence loosing all of the brood and honey that that they already stored up.I did just that 3 weeks ago. My bee's have 2 deep boxes full of bee's and I already have a honey super on. I am hoping that all go's like it has been if so I will get some honey my first year as a beekeeper.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

The beequick combined with a cone, might be interesting. The cone method seems to be the common way to get bees out of a tree. Search on the forums for "cone method" for discussions.

More info here:

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesferal.htm


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

>>>>I think that any job that involves bees, ladders
chainsaws, and such is one to think long and
hard about. The value of a swarm is much less
than the cost of even minor medical treatment<<<<

But, it's like climbing Everest or swimming the english channel....It's just for the thrill...


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## blkcloud (May 25, 2005)

The tree i'm working on is a hackberry about 3' in dia, I do have a big chainsaw with a 50" bar on it but...the tree is located on the edge of a college soccer field and they have litterally spent hundreds of thousands of dollars building up the field,leveling it and sowing some of that expensive grass on it...  so cutting it down it out...I have a funnel rigged up and will try and install it this evening..the grounds guys didnt really want to wait the month to have them all removed but i guess they will have to...also..another question.. when I place a hive there with the normal frame of brood and a few nurse bee's... would it be ok to place a weak hive that only has 2 frames of bees in it there instead? this way they will have a queen, or will the new bees fight with the ones coming out of the tree? thanks!!


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## Sharkey (May 27, 2004)

Well......

Here is a post I wrote not too long ago about my experience with removing a hive from a big pine tree on Eglin AFB.
http://www.beesource.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=005089;p=2#000032


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

I have tried both BeeQuick and Bee Go with little results. I took long copper tubing and dribbled it into the bottom of the trees nest and very few came out. I suspect that the fumes stunned them and they perrished.

I am now experimenting with Moth Crystals. So far, so good. My first tree was a suscess. I set a bait hive at the entrance and poured in the crystals on the far side and they came pouring out on the second day and swarmed into the bait hive.

I now have two new swarms that just moved into houses that we are trying the same technique on. The only difference is that I pour the crystals into knee-highs and insert into holes in the siding so that we can remove it after the new colony moves out and into the bait hive.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I am now experimenting with Moth Crystals. So far, so good. My first tree was a suscess. I set a bait hive at the entrance and poured in the crystals on the far side and they came pouring out on the second day and swarmed into the bait hive.

That's awesome! Keep us posted on this technique. As much as I hate the smell of moth crystals, I still may have to try this one. Was it PDB or Naphtalene?


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## Pete0 (Mar 30, 2002)

Presently I'm in the process of trapping bees out of 2 trees at different locations. Started the 1st one on 11 April and I believe most all the bees are finally out. I let them raise a new queen in the bait hive so I don't know if the old queen will come out or survive. The 2nd one I just started yesterday. It appears to be a much smaller colony, possibly a recent swarm. I'd be very interested in the use of moth crystals to finalize the 1st and speed up the 2nd. My question/concern is that if the bait hive is close might the fumes harm them over a period of time? Start small I guess. I'm not interested in letting the bees rob out the old nest and using crystals would surely prevent that anyway.

Thanks for the idea and your thoughts on harming the bees.

Pete0
Bena, VA


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

>Was it PDB

Yes.

>Thanks for the idea and your thoughts on harming the bees.

The first tree I did with the crystals was in an area of a stone company where customers were coming in contact with bees. The owner just wanted them gone, live if possible, but gone as soon as possible without harming the tree. It was an old catalpa with many entrances, so placing the bait hive with the prevailing wind carring it's scent to the entrance was no problem. And with multipal openings in the tree, I could put the crystals in away from the main entrance.

I didn't get as many bees as I thought there might be in the tree. So it is possible that some went up into the tree where they could not get out and sucumed to the vapors. I did get the queen and have a nice nuc hive for my trouble along with a check in the bank









Bottom line is the bees don't like the smell of the crystals and they will come out. Don't use a cone or one way exit, they need the room to get out quick once the vapors build up inside. And if you don't want to leave the crystals inside of a wall, put them in a sock that you can pull out afterward. It is also advised to make doubly sure that the smell is OK with the homeowner, and they understand what the process is.

The two houses I am doing now are swarms that moved in within the last few days, so we are hopeing that they will have little comb left behind.


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## Pete0 (Mar 30, 2002)

For my bait hive I'm using just one old brood frame and then 9 frames of foundation in a medium super, solid bottom board, inner cover and cover. What setup are you using for a bait hive? This second trap-out I'm doing is also a request for a hurry-up job so if I can copy your results I'd be happy. I'd have to remove the cone and probably move the hive away from the tree as the bottom board is about 6 inches from the cone. I just didn't think the bees would leave live brood but if they will then I'm willing to give it a try.

Thanks for your reply in advance.

Pete0


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## Drifter (May 1, 2004)

I put some moth balls into a hole under a colony in the wall yesterday . There is a bait hive outside the entrance hole with both used comb as well as new foundation . Going to check on it today as soon as it warms up .

The home owner said are new bees from a swarm . The nieghbor is older and said watched the swarm take off across country LOL said the swarm in the house is from last year . Hope this works .

Drifter


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## Drifter (May 1, 2004)

OK I got about 4,000 bees or so outside hanging on the wall . They aren't interested in my bait hive just trying to get back into their hive in the wall .I also made a one way bees valve out of a dadant escape funnel .

How can I get them to use the bait hive ? I used lemon pledge as well as some wet comb from last fall .

Drifter


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Try brushing them off into the hive and remove the hive to your place for a day or two. If you have the queen, that's close enough. If not, go back for her.


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## Primo (May 23, 2006)

I recently set up a trap (may 20 2006) to get some bees out of a tree. I got a call that there was a swarm in a nearby tree but by the time I got there they were gone (less than 2 hours, is this normal?).
The landowner asked me to remove the remaining bees from the tree without cutting the tree so I built a cone and stand for my 10 frame hive, the hive is 1 foot from the entrance that is now blocked and the same from the cone exit so about in the middle of the screen cone, it has drawn comb and some foundation in it.
http://www.primoelite.com/Bees/images/beetrap.jpg
My question is since I missed the swarm will the remaining queen probably have to leave and mate?
The bees look like they are using the bait hive(may 22 2006).
Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>My question is since I missed the swarm will the remaining queen probably have to leave and mate?

Yes.

>The bees look like they are using the bait hive(may 22 2006).
Any suggestions are greatly appreciated! 

Is the queen in it? It will be two or three weeks before the new queen will be laying.


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## blkcloud (May 25, 2005)

>It will be two or three weeks before the new queen will be laying.
off subject but..how long does it take for a mail order queen to start laying?thanks!!


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## Primo (May 23, 2006)

I have not yet seen the queen and can not cut the tree at all.
I will have to get up there and look in the hive and see but I have not seen her yet.


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## Drifter (May 1, 2004)

I tried to brush some into the hive but they mostly flew back to the cluster . Some now seem to be using the hive but the majority is still on the window . When I brush them away there are more exiting the hive . Would it help to sugar water spritz them to put into the hive ?

I have a vaccum setup but most don't survive the test in my trys last summer anyway . 

I just got a call tonight of a swarm that entered a house so another block em out and bait hive attempt will be in progress tomorrow .

Drifter


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

Well I'm batting 2 for three with the PDB. The tree worked, one house worked and the other house has not.

The difference is how enclosed the area that they are in is. The tree was completely sealed with only one way out and I used almost a pound of crystals.

The house that is working is an enclosed lower wall. There are more bees coming out than in, and the nuc I set at the entrance has major traffic. There are still bees going into the house, but they could be robbing, dunno for sure. I will keep the nuc there until the end of the week.

The house that it is not working on is in a eave that the trim has been removed from and I think it is too drafty to hold the vapor in. That colony looks as strong as ever. Will have to do a cut-out from the inside next week.

Lesson learned so far is to use a very generous amount of the crystals and in enclosed areas for best results.


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

>I have a vaccum setup but most don't survive the test in my trys last summer anyway . 

Vacs work, you just have to find that sweet spot where it barely pulls the bee off the comb. I have a gap around the lid that I duct tape to vary the suction. Keep the hose as short as possible and be sure to use one with smooth inside surface.


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## wade (Apr 1, 2006)

Hey Bullseye Bill,

I have an extraction coming up. Bees in a tree that can't be damaged. The entrance is way low at the base of the tree, at ground level. I think its the only entrance.

Regarding the moth crystals. Can I just use a stick to push a pound or so of crystals up into the entrance? I understand that the vapor will settle to a low spot so am wondering if the vapors will get up into the colny, and if the bes will be able to get pastthem to get out.

I was originally going to do the cone method but stumbled onto this thread. It'd be really cool to score the queen.

Thanks.


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## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

Waaay back in May, Bullseye Bill said:

> I have tried both BeeQuick and Bee Go with 
> little results. I took long copper tubing and 
> dribbled it into the bottom of the trees nest
> and very few came out. I suspect that the 
> fumes stunned them and they perrished.

The problem here was that Bill put LIQUID into
the hive, rather than VAPOR. There's not enough
heat or breeze to vaporize the Bee-Quick into
the fumes that move the bees.

So, soak a cloth with the stuff, put it over
the hose of a shop-vac or bee-vac that is
plugged into the exhaust port of the vacuum,
and blow the FUMES into the back of the cavity,
furthest from the entrance.

And while Bee-Go certainly can "stun" bees,
Bee-Quick does not have the same oxygen-robbing
impact on the respiratory systems of bees
or humans.

Of course, no one but a well-trained, experienced
and well-equipped beekeeper should ever attempt
to remove a swarm, and any that attempt it, do
so at their own risk, and of their own free
will, knowing full well that removals most often
pose significant risk. (Or so I am told by
lawyer-type people.)


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

>The problem here was that Bill put LIQUID into
the hive, rather than VAPOR. There's not enough
heat or breeze to vaporize the Bee-Quick into
the fumes that move the bees.

True enough, but it was summertime in 'o5 when I tried it and about 1oo deg. I thought that it would vaporize in the bottom of the hive and force the bees up and out of the entrance.

I have to give Himself credit here, even in the cold time of the year, the exhaust on a vacuum should be warm and push vapor. What I would try is making a hole at the far end of the hive (top end), to slowly build up a vapor wall to push them out the entrance to clean air. A vacuum might push too quickly filling the cavity and cutting off the escape route. I can't say for sure, you'd just have to experiment.

If you use crystals in the same way, I would try to keep them from falling in and down to the bottom where they might push the bees up into the tree keeping them from being able to escape.

If you put the crystals in a stocking and push that in a hole you will not be able to extract it. It's like the monkey hand in the jar, the crystals will ball up and will not come out, but that is not a problem in a tree that will be sealed after the bees are out.

Stuff the nylon stocking into the 1" or larger hole and pour the crystals into the hole, and plug the hole after inserting the wad of crystals. The slow build up of vapor should push the bees down and out the entrance.

My concern is temperature and how fast crystals will vaporize. Is this the right time of year to do this there? I'd wait until spring.

[ January 04, 2007, 01:54 AM: Message edited by: BULLSEYE BILL ]


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

OK, so now I go back and re-read the question and I have a question.

>Bees in a tree that can't be damaged.

Which can't be damaged? the bees or the tree?

If the objective is to get rid of the bees without hurting the tree, here is a little secret. As long as the bees are flying, you can put a tablespoon of horse dewormer on the entrance of the hive and in about three days all the bees will be dead from the bees tracking it into the hive. BUT you must clean up the dewormer and seal the entrance immediately or any robbing bees will take the dewormer back to their hive and it will kill that hive too.

Of course I would never do this,  but the state ag guy said it works when there is no other option.


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## wade (Apr 1, 2006)

Hey Bill,

Its the tree that can't be damaged. The folks don't care about the bees,but I do. I'd planned on doing it the first week of April because that's when I saw the first drones flying last year.

It looks like my options are either to do the cone method, or drill a hole up near the top of the cavity for crystals or Bee-go. The problem with the latter is, I have no idea where the top of the cavity is or where it is laterally in the tree. The tree is about 30" in diameter. However, I can get away with drilling a couple of holes if needed.

Jim, point well taken and noted, about the risks and dangers. When bees are driven out of the cavity with fumes, do they usually gob up at or near the entrance? Or do they massively fly about? I'm equipped to do this for my own protection, but if there's a sustained angry mob of bees I'll need to rethink it, as its a populated area.


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## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

> When bees are driven out of the cavity with fumes, > do they usually gob up at or near the entrance?

Not if you suck them up with a bee vac as they
exit.









Honestly, there is no telling how they will act
when they exit. Mostly, they are going to be
split between flying away and walking around
on the exterior surfaces.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

I bet horse dewormer is not registered as a bee pesticide, that ag guy is maybe making illegal recommendations. In California it is illegal to kill bees with soap water because it is not registered for that use. Go figure...


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I'm sure some enterprising soul will pay the cost of getting soapy water approved and certified as an insecticide for killing bees. There's a lot of money to be made that way.


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

>that ag guy is maybe making illegal recommendations.

Yeah, he mentioned that at the time. He actually said it at a state bee meeting.


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