# Cypress hives



## learning (Jan 19, 2009)

I am looking into getting equipment. Anyone use cypress?


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## jesuslives31548 (May 10, 2008)

That is all I use, I purchase my supers from Rossman in Moultrie Ga.....


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## honeyman46408 (Feb 14, 2003)

I have some and am NOT impressed with cypress and don`t think it`s worth the extra cost *but* mine were made from new growth (trees were about 80 years old) and what the differance is I dont know.

I got mine from the mill and palned them glued and nailed them and NO PAINT, they are now about 5 years old and the glue (liquid nails) has "let go" and the nails have walked out some so I just got some of them reglued and *screwd* and painted now for the second run.


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

New growth cypress is similar to pine in rot resistance. It is much worse than pine for warping. They call it the wood that never dies because it is always moving. Gluing cypress can be a challenge because of the movement and the oils in the wood. Old growth cypress is far too valuable to use in box making.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Ross said:


> New growth cypress is similar to pine in rot resistance. It is much worse than pine for warping. They call it the wood that never dies because it is always moving. Gluing cypress can be a challenge because of the movement and the oils in the wood. Old growth cypress is far too valuable to use in box making.


Interesting. I worked in a number of beeyards over the past few years that had a mix of cypress and pine. Much of the equipment was decades old. I have many of each in my own yards. The cypress I've seen has been durable and hasn't shown any warping you've described. I've never had a problem with glued and nailed joints. Its strange how 'facts' can vary from one person to another.


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

I have some cypress. I haven't really noticed a difference. It's only a few years old though so others may have better data than I can give.


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

Decades old cypress is likely to be old growth. It's nothing like what is cut today. The comment on wood movement comes from a professional timber framer who is a friend of mine. He won't cut a frame in cypress for that reason. 

A few references on the difference in old growth and 2nd growth...
http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Secondgrowth_cypress.html
http://www.misterboardwalk.com/material.ivnu
http://news.ifas.ufl.edu/story.aspx?id=11


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Ross said:


> Decades old cypress is likely to be old growth.


I don't think so. Those old hives were Rossman's....they've been in business for decades. I guarantee you that Fred Rossman has never wasted old growth cypress on commercial hives.
The Rossman's have been selling cypress hives for a long time. If it was so awful.....I can't imagine how they've stayed in business.....and thrived. 

New beekeepers sometimes ask me what I think about these message boards. I tell them to proceed with extreme caution. Folks on the message boards often express their opinions as though they are proven and established fact. New folks read it and believe it. And all too often, it just aint so.


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## CLB (Jun 8, 2007)

Well said, Beemandan.


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## Aspera (Aug 1, 2005)

Clean grained pine is excellent with regard to cost, strength, weight and rot resistance. It is what most beekeepers use, and nearly impossible to beat if a high quality of lumber is used. If your climate causes things to rot in under 5 years, then try parafin dipping, painting or staining the wood. In many cases, disease issues may make it worthwhile to disinfect, repaint, repair or replace in under 5 years. Except for an annoying tendency to warp and its exceptional weight, cypress has not impressed me. Cypress may be better for bottom boards in some areas.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Aspera said:


> Cypress may be better for bottom boards in some areas.


Why do you say that?


By the way, if you are considering buying cypress woodenward from Rossman's, I do have one word of warning. You will have to assemble everything. Bottom board, inner cover and Tcover. Having said that, the Tcover is the heaviest I've used. I have preassembled ones from Kelley, Brewsky Mtn, and Dadant. In my yards, the covers without rocks on top are from Rossman.


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## jesuslives31548 (May 10, 2008)

I have purchase for a few years from Rossman. My SBB have alllways been together. As the Tcover goes, I like the heavy ones, no need for rock hunting to hold cheap tops down. As far as cypress goes, I have never had any trouble with it. All 50 of my hives have come from there along with 390 supers. I have purchased from dadant but have never been happy with there wood work. Brushy Mountain has good hives and have a few of there English Garden hives around the house.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

jesuslives31548 said:


> My SBB have alllways been together.


Yep, you're right. The SBBs are already assembled. Its the conventional bottoms that aren't. 


jesuslives31548 said:


> As the Tcover goes, I like the heavy ones, no need for rock hunting to hold cheap tops down.


 That's sorta what I said....isn't it?


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## Aspera (Aug 1, 2005)

beemandan said:


> Why do you say that?
> 
> .


A heavy bottom board is not a big deal in my opinion, and it is not likely to dry/crack and warp due to sun exposure. If it is even a little more rot resistant, then all the better.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

*Cypress woodenware....the facts!!!!*

Cypress woodenware….the facts!!!!!!
I had to stop. I was laughing so hard my side started hurting.
Newbies beware of message board facts.



FordGuy said:


> but cyprus is not something I know a lot about. It seems lighter almost balsa like.





honeyman46408 said:


> I have some boxes I made from cypress and the wood is lighter than pine but a lot softer too,





Michael Bush said:


> The ones I've had were the same weight as pine.





Aspera said:


> A heavy bottom board





balhanapi said:


> I would buy only cypress from now onwards also the bottom board of cypress is much better durability wise. I had to reinforce pine bottom board.





Ross said:


> The new growth stuff is mostly sapwood and is not terribly rot resistant.





GRIMBEE said:


> I am a trade school carpenter. I also have been painting interior and exterior for 17 years. Cypress is much better than pine. In my experiences with wood, pine gets wet and rots out very quickly.
> Cypress grows in water(swamps) and elsewere and is more durable to the elements.





tecumseh said:


> one old bee keeper in louisiana stated quite frankly that much of the new growth cypress was not even as durable as pine.





Aspera said:


> the wood is rot resistant (but splinters and is heavy). How long do you really want a box to last?





Jeffzhear said:


> the cypress sure seems more dense, heavier and durable.I want them to last at least 50 years,





tecumseh said:


> unlike old growth cypress the new growth (especially the sap wood) will likely not last as long as most pine.





HartBee said:


> The wood is very straight, not bowed, warped or twisted.





Ross said:


> New growth cypress is similar to pine in rot resistance. It is much worse than pine for warping.





John Jones said:


> I have had not had any warped boards. Cypress is a superior wood to Pine.





Aspera said:


> Except for an annoying tendency to warp and its exceptional weight,


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## GRIMBEE (Apr 3, 2007)

If you read my post, It is more of an opinion than fact. "I said in my experiences". 
Most if not all of my posts are my opinions and may not be facts, I am still learning like most people.


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

If you've ever actually seen heart cypress you already know the boxes are made from sap wood.....Heart is very dark.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

GRIMBEE said:


> If you read my post, It is more of an opinion than fact. "I said in my experiences".


Yes, a few of the quotes were expressed as opinions, yours included. Many were not. I just couldn't resist demonstrating how polarized the information on this subject (and many others) actually is. My message: Every opinion and fact posted here should be taken with a grain of salt.


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

True of virtually every question about beekeeping.....


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>True of virtually every question about beekeeping.....

or wood...


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## Bizzybee (Jan 29, 2006)

Pine is just as cypress would be otherwise.


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## Aspera (Aug 1, 2005)

Well, laugh all you want. The subject is not polarized so much as diverse. I would conclude that individual experiences have varied, rather than assuming that some are "right" and others "wrong". My cypress came from Rossman, others may have gotten theirs elsewhere. If someone knows of a better source of cyprus woodenware I will happily give it another chance.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Aspera said:


> The subject is not polarized so much as diverse. My cypress came from Rossman


I dunno....my cypress is from Rossman too...and I'm thinkin' that our diversity is on opposite poles regarding warpage and weight.


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## FordGuy (Jul 10, 2005)

beemandan said:


> Interesting. I worked in a number of beeyards over the past few years that had a mix of cypress and pine. Much of the equipment was decades old. I have many of each in my own yards. The cypress I've seen has been durable and hasn't shown any warping you've described. I've never had a problem with glued and nailed joints. Its strange how 'facts' can vary from one person to another.


Many months later, about half my cypress wood boxes have warped in places. I was quite put off by the way you portrayed my statement above. I clearly said it's not something I knew a lot about, but I see you are an expert so we probably should all defer to you, if not genuflect in your general direction.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

"Contradiction is not a sign of falsity, nor the lack of contradiction a sign of truth." --Blaise Pascal 

"When we wish to correct with advantage and to show another that he errs, we must notice from what side he views the matter, for on that side it is usually true, and admit that truth to him, but reveal to him the side on which it is false. He is satisfied with that, for he sees that he was not mistaken and that he only failed to see all sides. Now, no one is offended at not seeing everything; but one does not like to be mistaken, and that perhaps arises from the fact that man naturally cannot see everything, and that naturally he cannot err in the side he looks at, since the perceptions of our senses are always true." --Blaise Pascal 

"'Tis with our judgments as our watches, none go just alike, yet each believes his own." --Alexander Pope


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## honeyman46408 (Feb 14, 2003)

Thanks Mike


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

beemandan writes:
I dunno....my cypress is from Rossman too...and I'm thinkin' that our diversity is on opposite poles regarding warpage and weight.

tecumseh:
quite evidently some folks have never built stuff from sap wood nor heart wood and never compared the warpage or weight of either cypress or pine? I would guess they have also never sliced and diced up logs to come to some understanding that simply the way a board is cut from the log will effect warpage/stability in any number of lumber species.

at the end of the day if you expect sapwood to last like heartwood in either pine or cypress you will be greatly disappoointed.


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## sfisher (Sep 22, 2009)

So are the cypress hives anygood? I am thinking about buying some from Brushy mnt, and want to know if I should go with cypress, or select grade lumber?


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

IMHO -- Good?? yes. Better than pine?? Questionable.


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

I would treat any and all cyrpress bodies, bottom boards or whatever just as if it was pine. If I spent the extra money for cypress I would spend the extra bucks for some time of wood treatment to preserve my investment.

ps... I do quite like the texture and grain of cypress so if it were me I would likely tend to use a wood sealer/stain over some kind of paint just to insure the visability of the grain.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

FordGuy said:


> Many months later, about half my cypress wood boxes have warped in places. I was quite put off by the way you portrayed my statement above. I clearly said it's not something I knew a lot about, but I see you are an expert so we probably should all defer to you, if not genuflect in your general direction.


You know fordguy, if you looked carefully you'd see that your statement about cypress being light in weight, almost balsa like was listed along with a variety of other opinions...some in absolute contradiction to each other. That particular statement you made wasn't in the context of whether or not you knew anything about cypress...it was made as a specific piece of personal knowledge. I wasn't saying that you were wrong. I was only pointing out the opinions, often absolute opposites of other people's opinions, are frequently expressed as fact on these message boards. And cautioning readers to consider those 'opinions' carefully.
A perfect example, about half of your cypress wood boxes have warped in places. On the other hand, I have hundreds....and I haven't seen a single one warped. Both statements are likely factual but on opposite poles. Sorry if that puts you off. Defer to me if it makes you feel better. Genuflect in my direction if you like.
Regards to all


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

sfisher said:


> So are the cypress hives anygood?


I've used both. In my opinion, there isn't any significant difference. If cypress was as awful as some claim, Fred Rossman would've been out of business long ago. Don't you think?


sfisher said:


> I am thinking about buying some from Brushy mnt, and want to know if I should go with cypress, or select grade lumber?


I didn't know that Brushy Mtn sold cypress.


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## sfisher (Sep 22, 2009)

Yes they do Brushy mnt sells the cypress hives with a A frame cooper top, as a garden hive. Most comercial beekeepers probally wouldnt use, them but I want something decent looking in the backward. I was thinking about a couple of coats of a good redwood stain followed by a varnish sealer.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

By golly, sfisher, I pulled out the Brushy Mtn catalog and there it was.
As far as how to finish it....You're likely to get a boatload of opinions.


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

sfisher writes:
I was thinking about a couple of coats of a good redwood stain followed by a varnish sealer.

tecumseh:
there ya' go. 

the natural pigmentation of cypress can vary quite a bit... the sapwood is a pleasant light brown and the heartwood may run from dark brown to red. your choice of stain color would (wood) be (bee) quite consistant with the latter. I can imagine that it will look quite nice in someone's garden.


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## Countryboy (Feb 15, 2009)

Dollar for dollar, I guess I don't see any big advantage in cypress. I do have some cypress screened bottom boards, but I would consider plastic bottom boards if I found a quality one for a reasonable price.

If I am going to spend a few more dollars on a box, I'm just going to pay $25 for a plastic deep box that is made out of the same plastic that milk crates are made out of. Unless you run over it, those will outlast you - and they never need painted.

The local bee supplies tells me about the only beekeepers who buy the plastic boxes are commercial beekeepers. They know that box is the last box they will have to buy - it doesn't need painting or replaced. Hobbyist beekeepers don't want to pay the extra few dollars, but pay more in the long run after painting and/or replacing rotten boxes.


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

countryboy writes:
but I would consider plastic bottom boards if I found a quality one for a reasonable price.

tecumseh:
at one time the state bee inspector here had a bottom board that was made from what appeared to be recycled tires. since it was a formed unit it had a very low profile and appeared to be almost industructable and would not rot in a thousand years even if you sat it directly on the ground. I don't think these have been made for some time so the question is.... does anyone reading this post think that such a product would have much appeal?


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

tecumseh said:


> does anyone reading this post think that such a product would have much appeal?


It doesn't sound very appealing i.e. wouldn't look pretty. I would also wonder about whatever chemicals might released over time. I don't remember tires being 'food grade'.

Good to see ya posting T. I don't visit here much anymore but happened by and responded mainly because fordguy raised an issue.


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

we seem to be following along the same road Dan... eventually I will get myself out of this here ditch and move on.

no the bottom board was not pretty and I would guess not food grade either. then again given the number of folks that soak their bee hive bodies, tops and bottoms in copper napth-something I would guess that stuff ain't food grade either. 

I would also guess most of the same crowd will ignore how much of that stuff showed up in the wax of dead hives during the ccd thingee and will still swear to ya' that it has never effected their bees health.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

tecumseh said:


> will still swear to ya' that it has never effected their bees health.


I've seen a lot of that going around....a disease we might call SEF (someone else's fault).


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

beemandan writes:
A perfect example, about half of your cypress wood boxes have warped in places. On the other hand, I have hundreds....and I haven't seen a single one warped. Both statements are likely factual but on opposite poles

tecumseh:
at one time I had a number of cypress hive bodies and almost all of it warped. rotted quite nicely also. I did not have much $ in the stuff (acquired out of someone storage building) so I never fretted much over the loss.

at least one possibility for this difference is the way in which one might decide to slice and dice a log. quarter sawn lumber is more stable and the choice of most furniture builders for this one distinct difference... ie lumber stability. of course quarter sawn lumber requires more time (and I would guess more $/ board).

I would also suspect that almost anyone that was crafting bottom boards or covers or frames from cypress would almost insist on the material being quarter sawn, otherwise you would be exposed in the fabrication process to problems in maintaining a consistant quality product.

If a person was quite experienced in 'knowing' the particulars of a given tree species they should be able to look at the end grain (determine how the board was sliced from the log) and give you a pretty good quess at to which boards will or will not warp, cup or twist.


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

dan writes:
a disease we might call SEF

tecumseh:
yea...

ain't much I can do about someone else's poor judgement, lack of information or failure to consider all the possibilities. matter of fact... it takes all the effort I can muster to simply attend to my own mistake which leaves little time to attend to other folks poor judgement.


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## BigDru (Aug 4, 2009)

I have both pine and cypress hives and supers. Both are good. I perfer the cypress. That said, don't buy from Rossman, quality is less then acceptable. I personally think if you want hives to last for next to forever, get good quality wood rather then the cheap price such as Rossman has. To paint or not is a personal preferance.


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## SwedeBee1970 (Oct 26, 2008)

Regardless of hive type, the bees will varnish the insides and seal it off. As long as there is a good outer paint job, should last for years.


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## Maine_Beekeeper (Mar 19, 2006)

*Rossman's*

I've got several Rossman cyprus hive boxes and am very happy with them. 
I think this is the first time I've heard complaints about Rossman quality and I have to disagree. What I've purchased has been well constructed and is holding up great.


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## BigDru (Aug 4, 2009)

I purchased 4 hive bodies and 4 med. supers. All 8 boxes have warpped. Coincidence? Hardly seems like it to me. Either poor workmanship or poor quality. For me its not hard to firgure it out.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

BigDru said:


> Either poor workmanship or poor quality. For me its not hard to firgure it out.


You may want to consider some other posssibilities. If everyone who bought Rossman woodenware had your experience how do you suppose they've stayed in business for decades?


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## pcelar (Oct 5, 2007)

I am also happy with Rossman's woodenware.


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## BigDru (Aug 4, 2009)

beemandan said:


> You may want to consider some other posssibilities. If everyone who bought Rossman woodenware had your experience how do you suppose they've stayed in business for decades?


Crappy lot of wood maybe. Not willing to fix the problem equals crappy custumer service. Other thought is that the wood they use for their hive is a poor fit for the dry deseret of the pacific northwest. But since my hives with superior workmanship from brushy mt have no problems I don't think its the cypress.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

BigDru said:


> But since my hives with superior workmanship from brushy mt


 Workmanship implies that your Rossman hive parts were unusable or marginally useable when you received them. Is that what you're saying? 
I had one side of a box from Rossman's that had the handle cut upside down. I called and they replaced it....no questions asked. Seemed fair enough to me.


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## Radical Bee (Feb 25, 2009)

beemandan said:


> You may want to consider some other posssibilities. If everyone who bought Rossman woodenware had your experience how do you suppose they've stayed in business for decades?


Could they be too big to fail?:lpf:


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## mythomane (Feb 18, 2009)

I have a few Rossman deeps and they are pretty. Bottom line is that they use a rabbet and not a finger joint, which means you have to use glue, and which is not as sturdy in my opinion. They are also expensive. 

"How could they stay in business so long if they were selling garbage?" 

Phillip-Morris (cancer sticks)
Johns-Manville (asbestos)
Ford (pinto, powerjoke)
Goodyear (exploding tires)
Fox News (altering reality to provide you with a pre-conceived narrative)
Swansons (tv dinners)
Ronco (smokeless ashtray)
Britney Spears (music?)
etc...

Just because you sell something and make money does not mean you have a superior product. All the above companies are still in business. People love crap.


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## pcelar (Oct 5, 2007)

mythomane said:


> People love crap.


Sorry but I do not think Rossman's products are crap.
I bought some of theirs brood boxes to try them (do not like to paint). Loved them. Bought many more cypress brood boxes and medium supers as well as cypress nukes. Love them. Thanks Fred for a good product.


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## Bizzybee (Jan 29, 2006)

Could be "crap" is defined in the eyes of the beholder. Try listing the pros and cons of both joint types without injecting personal opinion and trashing the good name of others.

Just ones opinion...............


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

I won't even bother to comment on silly list of businesses.
Finger joints vs rabbet? There are arguments for each. For example, a rabbet exposes much less endgrain.
Cypress vs pine....if you've read the posts you'll see that the opinions run the entire gamut.


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## mythomane (Feb 18, 2009)

I didn't mean to imply that Rossman makes crap.
I think they are fine boxes.

I was replying to the statement that just because they stay in business implies that their product is beyond reproach -- that does not follow.

Rabbet vs. jointed. It is my opinion only. Ok.
I find it curious that there are so many shills for Rossmans on this thread however.

My feeling is the thread should be closed at this point. What more can be said?


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

mythomane said:


> .
> I find it curious that there are so many shills for Rossmans


Shills? Because some folks think Rossman's hives are OK....that makes them shills?
Aren't you a pleasant fellow.


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## JonEdangerousli (May 8, 2007)

mythomane said:


> My feeling is the thread should be closed at this point. What more can be said?


Hmmm. People could chide you for accusing them of being a shill for one thing. Of course if the thread gets closed then you don't have to see it.


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## mythomane (Feb 18, 2009)

I think they are OK too, but you do not see me taking on every opinion that goes against my own as a personal affront like you do.


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## Bizzybee (Jan 29, 2006)

sheesh......... never a good mod around when you need one  :lookout:


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## JonEdangerousli (May 8, 2007)

LOL @ bizzy.

"Where's Loganville?"

(sorry, couldn't help it)


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## Bizzybee (Jan 29, 2006)

Stop that!!!


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## Hambone (Mar 17, 2008)

Bizzybee said:


> sheesh......... never a good mod around when you need one :lookout:



lol! Who are you anyway:scratch:


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## Bizzybee (Jan 29, 2006)

Pot Stirrer....... shhhhhh opcorn:


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## Bizzybee (Jan 29, 2006)

I'm thinkin the ole man has been getting it to easy :lookout:


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