# Found a great crimping tool for wiring frames



## mri1 (Feb 9, 2015)

Hi everyone, for those of you that wire your frames:

I just finished testing this wire crimping tool that I ordered and recommend it highly. I found it on AliExpress.com for $11.99 delivered from China. Smooth wood handles and metal parts. I found that it did not hurt my hands like the cheap plastic crimpers. Here is the link http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Bee-...-Wooden-handle-Wire-Crimeper/32668996040.html

It took a couple of weeks for delivery but well worth the wait. :thumbsup:


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

It looks like a slight improvement over the plastic ones. I had some just like this (metal handles) but without the wood. I did not like them. I had this made:
http://www.bushfarms.com/images/WireCrimpers.JPG

And have loved it when I was wiring. I stole the gears off of one of the plastic ones and took a pair of lineman pliers to a welder and had him make it.


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## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

I do not care if it does the job for me. If it is not Made in the USA I ain't buying it! That is the exact reason this country is in the shape it is. No pride of country and no loyalty. Wake up America!


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## jcummins (Feb 21, 2016)

How do these crimpers work?


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## tanksbees (Jun 16, 2014)

Tenbears said:


> I do not care if it does the job for me. If it is not Made in the USA I ain't buying it! That is the exact reason this country is in the shape it is. No pride of country and no loyalty. Wake up America!


Is your bee truck made in the USA?


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

They are supposed to tighten up the wire after you
put them on the frame. But how to use them I have no idea.
Is there a you tube vid to demonstrate?


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

Tenbears said:


> I do not care if it does the job for me. If it is not Made in the USA I ain't buying it! That is the exact reason this country is in the shape it is. No pride of country and no loyalty. Wake up America!


:thumbsup:


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## raku (Jun 13, 2016)

After years of using the roller ones i finally moved to this crimper. Fast and good to use with wire that has little wax left on: 
http://www.ohib.de/contents/media/l_i210311-drahtspanner-zange1.jpg


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

I wonder if a big C clamp will work to tighten up
the side bars on the frame?


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## challenger (May 27, 2009)

Compressing the side bars just a little before wiring is super easy and works great. Much faster too.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

challenger said:


> Compressing the side bars just a little before wiring is super easy and works great. Much faster too.


I have a pair of stubby wedges I slip in at each end of the frame which compresses the sidebars slightly so I dont have to pull the wire up singing tight before I anchor it. The crimper puts the zig zags in the wire runs which brings the tension up and also provides much better grip on the wax. Actually a bit slacker initial stringing results in a larger crimp pattern and you dont have to squeeze so hard on the handles to make the rollers grip the wire.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Crimping does much more than just tighten the wire. It also distributes the stress of the wire. There is not only more surface area to attach it to the wax, but it radiates the stress in different directions.


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## challenger (May 27, 2009)

I don't crimp but I think crimped wire will lose its crimp when heated for embedding?????


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Dont think so Challenger; I doubt the wire gets much over 200 F. The wax only needs a bit over 150F. to swallow the wire. I have even taken some comb off the crimped wire with the heat gun and wiped up the wiring with a rag. Still looks good to go!


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I don't crimp but I think crimped wire will lose its crimp when heated for embedding?????

It does not.


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## LanduytG (Aug 29, 2013)

I use 15# mono filament fishing line. Run line through top hole, then wrap the line around a pin then slip the into thee hole. Using 15# line keeps the pin snug. Then weave the line back and forth across the frame. Pull line tight and wrap another pin and slide into the whole and your done. If I could find 1/8 or 3/16 staples for my air gun I would use those instead of pins.


Greg


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

LanduytG said:


> I use 15# mono filament fishing line. Run line through top hole, then wrap the line around a pin then slip the into thee hole. Using 15# line keeps the pin snug. Then weave the line back and forth across the frame. Pull line tight and wrap another pin and slide into the whole and your done. If I could find 1/8 or 3/16 staples for my air gun I would use those instead of pins.
> 
> 
> Greg


I gave the monofilament line a try and the bees snipped it. It has been suggested to use at least 30 pound test; I went back to wire. 

Perhaps if the bees were drawing comb quickly it would get embedded with no problems. In find in cool weather they sometimes do a lot of messing around chewing wax and retaining pins etc., before they really get going. Dont know for sure why some people say it works wonders and others have posted of problems.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

I once use the fishing line but the comb all sagged under our hot sun.
No fun doing a hive inspection on the wobbly comb. Have recently gone back to the
wire now. One way to tighten up the wires without using the crimping tool is not 
use the bottom bar when installing the wire first. After you put the wire on then install the
bottom bar last. By doing so the wire is tighten after you straighten them out on the frame before
putting the bottom bar on. If it sounds like you can play musical note on the wire it is good enough for me.
Then as usual using a car battery to connect the heat source to embed the wax foundation sheet onto the wires.


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## Rolande (Aug 23, 2010)

Michael Bush said:


> Crimping does much more than just tighten the wire. It also distributes the stress of the wire. There is not only more surface area to attach it to the wax, but it radiates the stress in different directions.


It sounds as if you're suggesting that investing the extra time in crimping the wires gives a better/longer lasting product. Do you have any real data based on practical field work to back this up? I only ask because we've got plenty of long standing frames threaded with good stainless wire which have never seen a wire crimper (and never will) but still have many years of life left in them. In short, they work perfectly well and I simply can't visualise how crimping the wire would improve on what we already have.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Rolande said:


> It sounds as if you're suggesting that investing the extra time in crimping the wires gives a better/longer lasting product. Do you have any real data based on practical field work to back this up? I only ask because we've got plenty of long standing frames threaded with good stainless wire which have never seen a wire crimper (and never will) but still have many years of life left in them. In short, they work perfectly well and I simply can't visualise how crimping the wire would improve on what we already have.


My oh my! I think you better stick with what you are doing; Change, even if it is an improvement, can be upsetting to some people.

It takes about 5 seconds per wire to crimp!


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## Rolande (Aug 23, 2010)

crofter said:


> My oh my! I think you better stick with what you are doing; Change, even if it is an improvement, can be upsetting to some people.
> 
> It takes about 5 seconds per wire to crimp!


Improvements never upset me, that's one of the reasons why I'm interested in the practical experience behind the post which I quoted.


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## mri1 (Feb 9, 2015)

beepro said:


> Then as usual using a car battery to connect the heat source to embed the wax foundation sheet onto the wires.


Beepro, can you explain how to connect the battery to melt the wax to the wire? Thanks


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

It appears to me that crimping is basically/primarily a means of tightening the wire. If you can get a nice taut wire without crimping, I see no need to additionally crimp. After years of use, it's not uncommon for the wires to loosen up. This is a perfect time to use a crimper to get the wire taut again.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

Barry, it's true that the most important reason to crimp is if the wire is loose.

On the other hand, if I were going to engineer the best way to embed wire in wax for strength, it would be crimped.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

I guess as with everything, is "best" necessary? Is there a measurable difference between straight and crimped wire in the strength department? Once comb is built around the wire what kind of force is required to pull the comb off the wire? Just thinking out loud.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

I don't disagree...but isnt the wired foundation available actually 'crimp wired'? In that case, there is no tightening effect....it's purely to increase the surface area and/or avoid a straght cutting wire.

I mostly extract unwired foundationless deeps, so I don't have much of an opinion. It might be easier to slice foundation when embedding straight uncrimped wire.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

It would be interesting to hear from one of the manufacturers as to why they use crimped versus straight wire. I can't imagine once foundation is built into comb it makes any difference. And seeing as they are not embedding the wire into the foundation the same way we do (I have to assume here), could be a completely different reason for using crimped?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>It sounds as if you're suggesting that investing the extra time in crimping the wires gives a better/longer lasting product.

I would preface this with the fact that I don't wire at all anymore because I don't think it will make a longer lasting product. I'm just saying the point of wiring is strength and a crimped wire will be significantly (like 100 fold) stronger than an uncrimped one. I base this on actual experience with many things including things like a web printing press. If you bump the paper in a web press and make a slight tear and the press is then turned on, it will tear straight across. If you instead make a round tear around that tear it will not. The reason is the difference between one point of stress in one direction vs spreading it and radiating it in different directions. The crimping of the wire radiates the stress in different directions as well as making more surface to embed. Will it last longer? That depends on the stress it is under, but since the point of wiring is to handle stress, I would say it is more in line with your goal to make it stronger.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

The point of wiring is not really to handle stress on the comb..it is to keep the foundation from buckling before comb is drawn.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

I notice concrete reinforcing bar is given a deliberately convoluted surface. Knurling on ratchet handles, knurled faces on frameing hammers. Get a grip!


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

You mean get a crimp?!


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

The purpose is to get the wire stronger to hold up the frame better so that the
wax foundation can be better supported before the comb is drawn out.
Without the strong wire, say using just the wax comb like a TBH comb, in the 
hot sun without any support the comb might be tear off. We see this complaint a lot
on the TBH comb. Having the wires on will make the over all structure a lot stronger. I have been using
wire on the wax foundation on my hives for the last 4 years. The wires on the frames will
support a stronger comb set up once the comb is drawn out compare to a no wire frame with only
the natural comb drawn out.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

mri1 said:


> Beepro, can you explain how to connect the battery to melt the wax to the wire? Thanks


I use full sheet of the wax foundation for my wire frames.
I have been chasing to make more frames since my bees are expanding like crazy now.
So they need more frames to be drawn out for the expansion. 
After installing the wax sheet I use a car battery to melt the wax sheet in using the same
set of wires from the wire spool. I simply cut 2 piece of wires long enough to connect to the battery terminal and
able to connect to the wire on the frame. Make a small loop on the one wire end and push in the loose
loop to the positive + battery terminal and the other wire to the negative - battery terminal until it is secured to the terminal. Be careful to not let the 2 wires touch each other otherwise you will see sparks flying. And if not careful you might get burn too if you hold on to both wires at the same time. Just thought a little caution here!
Whatever you do don't let both wires to touch each others. I wrap the positive wire end to the wooden post on one side and the negative wire to the other side without touching each other. Then let the fun begin. The first step is to wear a pair of plastic gloves.
You can use the cotton gloves if you don't have the plastic ones. The second step is to tug the negative wire end onto the
frame wire at the very bottom end. This is usually the 4th wire at the bottom of the frame. With the negative wire end secured to the frame wire, the next step is to use the positive wire to gently connect to the frame wire end on top of the frame. This is usually the first wire at the top of the frame. The positive wire connection to the frame wire is about 5-10 seconds while holding it. If you connect longer then the wires will melt through the wax foundation. You can do a second attempt to connect the positive wire if the first 5-10 seconds is not enough to heat the wires. Tips: To have better wax and wires contact, I usually put in some coins on top of the wax sheet to hold everything down.

P.S. The car battery is not connected to the car. It is another spare battery hook up to the solar battery system.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

> The purpose is to get the wire stronger to hold up the frame better so that the
> wax foundation can be better supported before the comb is drawn out.


So you are saying that uncrimped wire isn't strong enough to support foundation?


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

I have no experience before on using the crimp tool.
I'm comparing the wire frame with the no wire TBH comb.
A wire frame will support the comb to the frame better. This is all I'm saying.
If someone can lend me this tool then I can compare my experiences so far.
I have no intention to buy one since not installing the bottom bar first will help
with the wires tension. After the wires got stretched then I will put in the bottom bar
to further strengthen it.


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## mri1 (Feb 9, 2015)

beepro said:


> I
> After installing the wax sheet I use a car battery to melt the wax sheet in using the same
> set of wires from the wire spool. I simply cut 2 piece of wires long enough to connect to the battery terminal and
> able to connect to the wire on the frame
> ...


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

beepro said:


> I have no experience before on using the crimp tool.
> I'm comparing the wire frame with the no wire TBH comb.
> A wire frame will support the comb to the frame better. This is all I'm saying.
> If someone can lend me this tool then I can compare my experiences so far.
> ...


That isn't a very useful comparison. TBH comb is fragile to handle because it isn't inside a frame.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

deknow said:


> I don't disagree...but isnt the wired foundation available actually 'crimp wired'? In that case, there is no tightening effect....it's purely to increase the surface area and/or avoid a straght cutting wire.
> 
> I mostly extract unwired foundationless deeps, so I don't have much of an opinion. It might be easier to slice foundation when embedding straight uncrimped wire.


Not sure how you see the surface area of a wire is increased by crimping it. maybe it's overall purchase on the wax is improved. I would think the wire would be stiffer after crimping also something like the corrugated effect on paper or cardboard. I would suspect that would improve the function of the wire. but again. is it worth it? I've tried fishing line and it did not work. now I use wood dowels.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

The surface area stays the same for the wire, but the length is reduced. More surface area of wire over a given length.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

deknow said:


> The surface area stays the same for the wire, but the length is reduced. More surface area of wire over a given length.


Mmmm, got it. So I don't use foundation. Would adding wire to my frames still result in reinforced comb or will the bees avoid it as they draw out the comb? I have that problem from time to time with the dowels. They like to make queen cells right at those dowels though.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Crimping does not make the wire stronger. Man oh man I cant understand what is so complicated about this concept. It simply gives many more directional faces of contact with the wax which makes it many times harder for the comb to pull off the wire. The only time I experienced pull through and comb damage was when I experimented with so called spider wire synthetic fishing line. Personally I dont think the extra grip given by the crimping is essential for most frame wiring but the ability of the crimping function to take up slack and evenly tension the strands makes the stringing and iniatil tensioning less critical. You can string so that the wire only only gives a dull thud when plucked, the side bars are not bowed etc., and after quickly zipping the wires with the crimper they will twang! The crimper serves two purposes.

Each zig in the wire is a miniature spring and can continue to take up slack as the sidebars yield over time to the tension of the wires.

Any kind of a half workable embedder needs a method to press the cross wires into the foundation. If you have vertical embedded wire foundation you have to put pressure between the vertical wires or your cross wires will be blowing in the wind and the bees will not properly incorporated. Pictured below is one I made up with a series of a dozen or so individual pressure fingers. The electrical contact points engage each cross wire run just inside the endbars. Unwired foundation sheets are easier to crosswire and embed than vertical wire foundation.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

I generally don't bother....as I said earlier, the primary use for wire is to support the foundation. I don't have enough issues with weak comb (even foundationless deeps) to bother.


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## laketrout (Mar 5, 2013)

I thought the main reason for wire is to support heavy honey laden comb in the extractor , I never had any trouble with un wired comb for crush and strain until one found its way into the extractor !

I use a really old train transformer for embedding , works great , always have the same amount of power and no charging batteries .


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

Crimping will 'work harden' the wire (think of breaking a metal coat hanger by bending back and forth). It will get stiffer and more brittle from crimping.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

Kelly sells a proper transformer at a good price to embed foundation.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

crofter said:


> Crimping does not make the wire stronger. Man oh man I cant understand what is so complicated about this concept.
> View attachment 26199
> View attachment 26198


Not sure exactly who you are referring to. But I said stiffer, not stronger. Could be one of the causes of things getting complicated. Since each crimp is intended to act as a spring to take up slack. I suspect this only works if you use the wire intended for this purpose. Which in turn I would guess is stainless steel spring wire also known as piano wire. Not all wire has memory and will spring back. Where do folks get it and at what price? say price per lb.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Where do folks get it 

It's been quite some time since I bought stainless wire for frames. The last time I bought it I could only find it at Glory Bee. I have not looked for it recently and can't say if they still have it or not.

>I thought the main reason for wire is to support heavy honey laden comb in the extractor 

Ad deknow pointed out it was not its intended purpose when it was invented nor is it necessary. I don't wire at all and I extract most of my honey. But it does seem like people started using it with the intent of adding strength. Without crimping the comb is more likely to tear in a straight line on the wire and more likely to tear at all...


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

I have the source but I still need to know what diameter wire.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

NVM. 0.016 at Mcmaster Carr 1450 ft roll $39.83 item number 9495K17. not sure how that compares to your bee suppliers 1000 ft roll. Mcmaster Carr does not tend to be cheap.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

After a season or 2 on the wire the comb is all brown and stronger.
I have to use much tearing force to pull the comb out of the wires. 
If you have seen my you tube extractor process most of the honey frames are
wired up. And there is only one type of frame wires that I know of for wiring these
frames.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

I checked the tin plated carbon steel wire from Mann Lake and come up with ~ .017" dia. (with dial calipers, not micrometer). I investigated a bit into stainless wire and it appeared three or 4 times more expensive. One source that came up was from doing a search for "stainless steel fishing line". 

Both formic and oxalic acid seem to take the shine off the tin plated steel line but I would imagine by the time the exposed portions rusted away the comb would be well anchored in the frame. What is embedded in the comb is protected. I dont see any stainless steel line in my future plans.


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## challenger (May 27, 2009)

Stainless is a waste of time and money as far as I am concerned. I don't even know where I got the roll of wire I am using right now. It is marked 1# which I guess means it is a pound of wire. It felt like more than a pound though when I put it on the board I use. If I think of it I'll measure it to get the gauge. It is very thin carbon steel and it has a little rust on it from sitting in the garage.
I wire only the deep frames that I use in the brood boxes. I sometimes extract these along with mediums but generally it is mediums only for honey. I wire using only the two center holes. I use 4 eyelets and small nails in one end bar. I am about to post another thread that shows the board I use to get the wire tight. I use a bar like crofter to short out the wire for embedding but I dont have additional pressure points being provided by the bar. I let the wire get hot and then I just press the foundation down with my hand. The ONLY reason I wire is because I try to keep as many assembled and populated frames as I need on hand . When I install foundation it will bulge or bow or warp or whatever it's called. This big curve from the vertical wire memory doesn't show up until the foundation is in the frames for a day or two. This makes me nuts putting a frame with curved foundation in a box. I know it will give me problems so I have frames ready to go whenever possible. I am small time needless to say. I think if I were a big outfit I would use one of the rigid foundations as well as foundationless for sure depending on the season etc.
I love the foundationless principle but I was not able to use it without getting tons of drove comb. Michael will chime in I hope to recommend when to use foundationless for getting only worker size comb.


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