# Carnis gone wild... couldn't be happier right now



## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

:thumbsup:


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

Sounds really good Avatar Dad.


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## beecole (Nov 25, 2011)

Sounds great Avatar,

I don't know here I am in relation to you. Im in upstate SC.
I inspected Feb 3 and found that they had filled a super with with red maple nectar. I was afraid they would swarm before March 1 the Hive was getting full fast ( 2 mediums and a super)
I decided to go ahead and split using a Cloakeboard approach. That way I can keep all the bees together but seperate top and bottom brood boxes withe the queen excluder Cloakeboard device.
This way the brood stays warm both top and bottom, if we get another cold snap.

I will let you know how the Cloakeboard split works out...


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## AvatarDad (Mar 31, 2016)

Mine are not bringing in nectar yet, but pollen like crazy. And there are about 10 bees on the poultry waterer all day long... I finally found a recipe they like (they ignored my every attempt to give them water last year, but were on my new batch the day I put it out in January). So, pollen and water and leftover honey = brood. 

I see people in other forums trash-talk package queens, but this one: She built a hive up starting on May 1, survived the worst drought I can remember recently, and a dearth which killed the sourwood and the golden rod, put up with a newbie beekeeper who didn't know what he was doing, overwintered with 2 frames of bees while consuming nearly no honey, and now this. All treatment free. So, credit to her: at least she knows what *she's* doing!  I'll try to get a daughter or 3 from her this year.


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

Hey AvatarDad, care to share your waterer recipe?


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## Hunajavelho (Oct 11, 2015)

Typical for carniolan bees, but impossible in two weeks, it takes three weeks for bees to hatch, so the buildup has been going on for a at least a month or maybe closer to two, meaning they had pollen stored in frames.
One frame of brood when hatched cover about 3 frames - so this would be covering now 6 frames if they where on 2 frames in winter - or was there more how did you check the cluster, the cluster could have been much bigger underneath.

Also typical for carniolan bees to brood up heavily and do very good the second season after swarming but collapsing totally next autumn-winter. So don't get your hopes up on this queen, yet...


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Classic Carniolans, they can absolutely explode .

You are happy now. BUT - realise carniolans have one main purpose for this explosive growth, and that is to swarm as much as they can. First comes the drone brood you mentioned, then queen cells, and swarms. Manage that and you will do well.


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## AvatarDad (Mar 31, 2016)

Nordak said:


> Hey AvatarDad, care to share your waterer recipe?


To one gallon of water add 1/2 teaspoon kosher salt, a scant 1/2 teaspoon of thyme leaves (about 4 shakes from the herb bottle) and 2 drops of pure lemon extract (NOT lemongrass.... just lemon to give it a scent).

They were all over it within 5 minutes of me putting it out, and I see 10-15 bees on the feeder all day.


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## AvatarDad (Mar 31, 2016)

I'll keep an eye out for swarming behavior and report back. I plan to split early... maybe even this weekend if the weather is nice. 

Even with them "filling up the hive" I'm remembering the hive as currently configured is about a single medium box, so they are not some huge Michael Palmer super-colony or anything. Even as I split, the main hive needs to be bigger than it currently is. I'm just impressed they went from "grapefruit" to "watermelon" so quickly.


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## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

Nice!
:thumbsup:


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

AvatarDad said:


> To one gallon of water add 1/2 teaspoon kosher salt, a scant 1/2 teaspoon of thyme leaves (about 4 shakes from the herb bottle) and 2 drops of pure lemon extract (NOT lemongrass.... just lemon to give it a scent).
> 
> They were all over it within 5 minutes of me putting it out, and I see 10-15 bees on the feeder all day.


Thanks. Will try this out.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

OK if the hive is currently just one medium box it would be good to add another box and let them expand into and fill that before splitting it. Spread origional combs mixed with new to reduce crowding and swarming till they are down the track a bit.

Thing is, if you are mating your own queens, a little later in the season will be better.


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## lharder (Mar 21, 2015)

Oldtimer said:


> OK if the hive is currently just one medium box it would be good to add another box and let them expand into and fill that before splitting it. Spread origional combs mixed with new to reduce crowding and swarming till they are down the track a bit.
> 
> Thing is, if you are mating your own queens, a little later in the season will be better.


Do you have seasonal sign posts that indicate that a queen will probably be well mated (ie drone population etc)? Weather wise, Kamloops is supposedly in a nice sweet spot for queen rearing in that rainy cold spring weather rarely lasts longer than a few days.


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

I can give one answer about seasonal sign posts. Look for abundant pollen coming into the hive. I'm not talking about a few loads here and there, it has to be so much that the bees are packing slabs of pollen above and beside the brood nest. When abundant pollen is available, the bees will produce abundant healthy drones.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

lharder said:


> Do you have seasonal sign posts


Queen breeders are forced to start the first grafts earlier than they should, this because customers demand early queens. Because of this the queen breeders first round will have low mating percents, and of the ones that do mate and are sold a higher percentage will be superseded early, or eventually go drone layer. Better queen breeders get around this in part by stimulating hives to start drone rearing earlier than normal, but this is easier said than done, going against what nature is telling the bees to do is not easy in that regard.

For someone just breeding a few queens for themselves who would rather have quality queens than early early, I would suggest waiting till the first hive builds queen cells to attempt to swarm. That is when the bees think the time is right. But if someone just has a few hives and maybe none of them try to swarm, my suggestion would be once you see good quantities of capped drone brood in the hives, graft no earlier than 3 weeks after that, a bit more time is better. Do not take the very first few drone larvae as the start time some bees have the odd drone larva all year, wait till a good amount is seen, a concerted effort by the bees to get a good drone population out there. Bear in mind that drones mature slower than queens do, and just a few drones will not cut it, DCA's need thousands of them.


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## lharder (Mar 21, 2015)

Thanks OT. Always good to hear how experienced queen rearers time their season. I am more interested in quality. I'm also not too interested in stimulating brood production too early, but I'm thinking of getting a 2 or so week head start with pollen patties before first pollen (end of Feb to mid March usually) if the weather is decent. 

Looks like the first decent cleansing flight weather of the winter today. There have been a few marginal days, but today the bees should be out in force. Its been a cold winter.


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## Gumpy (Mar 30, 2016)

AvatarDad said:


> To one gallon of water add 1/2 teaspoon kosher salt, a scant 1/2 teaspoon of thyme leaves (about 4 shakes from the herb bottle) and 2 drops of pure lemon extract (NOT lemongrass.... just lemon to give it a scent).
> 
> They were all over it within 5 minutes of me putting it out, and I see 10-15 bees on the feeder all day.



I just happened to see this bit of information last night. 

"Bees need some salt in the diet but they probably retain it by recovering salt before it is excreted. If as little as 0.125% salt is added to sugar water fed to bees, there is a reduction in longevity." - Honeybee Biology and Beekeeping, Dewey M. Caron, 2013 Revision, pg. 71

Anybody have insight on feeding salt to bees? I interpret this as indicating it's probably not a good idea. Am I misreading it?


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## AvatarDad (Mar 31, 2016)

Gumpy said:


> If as little as 0.125% salt is added to sugar water fed to bees, there is a reduction in longevity." - Honeybee Biology and Beekeeping, Dewey M. Caron, 2013 Revision, pg. 71


I've never heard this before, and it is interesting. I added salt due to the hundreds of reports I've read on BeeSource of "My bees drink from my neighbor's brine pool" and "my bees ignore my feeder and drink from a mud puddle".

Most well and lake water has a little salt in it... I honestly don't know how much. I was trying to get my tap water up to mud-puddle standards by adding a tiny amount. Still: having a hard number makes doing the math hard to resist. 

0.5 tsp / 768 tsp in a gallon * 100 = .065% 

So, I'm about half the threshold mentioned by the book, and perhaps safe. (Those who complain weight versus volume are welcome to re-do the math. Although salt is a little heavier than water, they are close enough that the math will be similar either way).

Anyway: my recipe is made up and has no scientific basis. I do not make any claim other than "they love it", and that claim is anecdotal.


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## Gumpy (Mar 30, 2016)

I just thought it interesting that you mentioned adding salt the day after I had read that. I got that book for Christmas and have been working my way through it. It was touted as a college level textbook, and the author has some impressive credentials. I've found that unfortunately, it lacks the detail I had hoped for. The salt thing is one example. That quote is all he said. There's no explanation of how longevity is affected, or really even what he means by that. I took it as the bees died earlier, but he doesn't indicate how much earlier. Anyway, I like your calculation and how you put it to use to check your methods. Possibly the real test is whether your bees drink it or not.


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