# biological bee club?



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

If you go to the yahoo group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Organicbeekeepers/ You'll find people using no treatments whatsoever (including no essential oils FGMO etc.) I'm sure some are from the Bay Area.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

The Yahoo biological group:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BiologicalBeekeeping/ 

Bay Area Bee Clubs: http://www.honeybee.com/beeclubs.htm


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## Guest (Dec 12, 2004)

Mr. Bush. Can you please explain where the oxalic acid treatments stand in biological beekeeping. Can you give some references as to the (lack of) influence of it on the bees, honey and other hive products.

Thank you for your always useful and wonderful posts.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Can you please explain where the oxalic acid treatments stand in biological beekeeping.

They probably don't. Depends on what your definition of "biological beekeeping" is. I suppose I would define it as letting the bees take care of themselves. On natural sized comb with natural feed and preferably with surviving feral bees, this is possible and is being done by a number of people. 

The organic group listed above will not even allow you to DISCUSS a treatment like Oxalic acid, or FGMO, or essential oils.

>Can you give some references as to the (lack of) influence of it on the bees, honey and other hive products.

If you search (all the forums) on "oxalic" you'll find many discussions where Axtman has given references for amounts of Oxalic acid that narually occur in honey, that naturally occur in foods such as rhubarb and the amounts found in honey on hives treated with oxalic acid. Basically it's undetectable because the amounts that get added by treatment are still in the natural range of what occurs without treatment.

As far as the bees go, I think he has references to some studies on that as well.

Personally, though, the proof is in the pudding. I've used it with no capped brood in the hive, seen no significant loss of bees and had virtually no mites afterwards. 

But to me the goal of Biological beekeeping is NOT to find a treatment, but to establish a self sustaining hive that does not REQUIRE treatments. Natural sized cells, natural feed, and survivor stock bees, is the only way I've seen this accomplished Once you get there, life is so much less stressful.

>Thank you for your always useful and wonderful posts.

You are very welcome.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

The Biological Beekeeping list on Yahoo has been shut down and basically moved here. Oxalic acid treatments do not play a roll in biological beekeeping in the long run. It can, however, play a role in the short run if something is needed while one is going from routine treatments on bees to making the break to clean beekeeping. Discussing treatments is not a taboo with me in this forum. People can not learn if open discussion is not permitted. When free exchange of both pro and con is allowed, we become educated and it does not become a religion. It is seen for what it is. Let's get people involved in biological beekeeping by example, not by force or condemnation. I've been accused of being soft and weak when it comes to "true" bio beekeeping for not drawing a firm line in the sand.

If you are interested in a full discussion on oxalic for continued use, it should be done in the Diseases and Pests Forum, however.

Regards,
Barry

[This message has been edited by Barry (edited December 12, 2004).]


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