# Ultra Bee Powder patty recipe



## jcase (Jul 30, 2016)

I scored a bunch of powder ultra bee at the beginning of this winter. I would like to make patties out of it.

One recipe I came across somewhere (here? i dont recall) stated 1/3 powder, 1/3 sugar, 1/3 HFCS.

Unfortunately due to my location, HFCS is problematic to get. Can I use regular corn syrup? I have no experience with either besides making pecan pie.

Or does anyone have a better recipe? I'm not looking for something complex, just looking to get the ultra bee into the bees in a more solid form.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Here is a thread that may be useful:
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?292626-Ultra-Bee-Patty-Recipe-for-Mann-Lake


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## jcase (Jul 30, 2016)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> Here is a thread that may be useful:
> http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?292626-Ultra-Bee-Patty-Recipe-for-Mann-Lake


Yep that is the one, don't want to resurrect such an old thread. Can I use regular old off the shelf corn syrup? Its on sale super cheap right now here.

I just tried mixing a batch with it, looks pretty good.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Ordinary corn syrup is substantially less 'sweet' than HFCS. I think that you would be better off making "heavy syrup" AKA 2:1, and adding a small amount of oil to slow the drying of the patty. Seems like post #1` of the linked thread would be a good place to start.


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## jcase (Jul 30, 2016)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> Ordinary corn syrup is substantially less 'sweet' than HFCS. I think that you would be better off making "heavy syrup" AKA 2:1, and adding a small amount of oil to slow the drying of the patty. Seems like post #1` of the linked thread would be a good place to start.


Alright, 2:1 is much easier to work with than CS. Thoughts on the small batch I made with CS? Toss it? Use it?


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## Branman (Aug 20, 2003)

Buy some citric acid and make some invert syrup. I used it and my patties came out super well. Can be substituted perfectly for HFCS.


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## jcase (Jul 30, 2016)

Branman said:


> Buy some citric acid and make some invert syrup. It came out pretty well and it can be substituted perfectly for HFCS.


Thanks


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## Arbol (Apr 28, 2017)

Don't use hfcs with ultra bee powder. there is no need, same with 2:1 syrup there is no need.
no need for citric acid crap, and never never use oil in sugar cakes wow what bad advice.
no additives are needed with ultra bee...com'on now...

quick easy 75lbs sugar to 1 10lb bucket of ultra bee powder and add water to desired texture to make your cakes, make preferred size of sugar brick and let dry for a day or 2 then slap them on your hives.
stuff works great.
bees love it and will consume this fast, and once started now mid winter don't stop feeding.


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## jcase (Jul 30, 2016)

Arbol said:


> Don't use hfcs with ultra bee powder. there is no need, same with 2:1 syrup there is no need.
> no need for citric acid crap.
> what do you think water and sugar mixed into the ultra bee does...com'on now...
> 
> ...


Well the reason I would like to go with HFCS is with sugar syrup or water and sugar, in the past the patties ended up rock hard if not consumed fast, and the rock hard ones tend to be ignored.

I'd like to come up with something somewhat like the commercial UB patties, I'm guessing they are using something like HFCS and an oil?


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Arbol said:


> no need for citric acid crap, and never never use oil in sugar cakes wow what bad advice.
> no additives are needed with ultra bee...com'on now...


Hey, here is _Michael Palmer_ on that subject ... note the oil in Michael's patty recipe! 



Michael Palmer said:


> New recipe...
> 
> I use a cement mixer now and make a larger batch than I can in a bucket
> 
> ...


Let us note that the OP asked about pollen sub patties, not making sugar blocks. 


(click the blue button in the quote box to go to the original thread)

*Note that 6oz of oil should be 6 _cups_ of oil; see post #20 of this thread)


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## jcase (Jul 30, 2016)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> Hey, here is _Michael Palmer_ on that subject ... note the oil!


Yep, ok that is the recipe im going to follow for my next test

I ran tests last year on uptake of premade patties, and the ultrabee ones were consumed so much faster. The other 3 types I tried (dont recall which brands, one was local) dried rock solid long before they were taken up. Once hard, they were not touched again. Even when the ultrabee wasnt taken up fast, still stayed soft. That is what I'm after.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Guys gotta get over HFCS... it’s a great way to provide the sugars while keeping all water out

, afterall, it’s the wAter evaporation which causes the rock hard old patty cakes. HFCS is hygroscopic, it will stay soft. The oils help with the fats


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## jcase (Jul 30, 2016)

Ian said:


> Guys gotta get over HFCS... it’s a great way to provide the sugars while keeping all water out
> 
> , afterall, it’s the wAter evaporation which causes the rock hard old patty cakes. HFCS is hygroscopic, it will stay soft. The oils help with the fats


I've got no problem USING HFCS in patties, not sure I want to feed it in bulk, undecided on that but that isnt an issue... because ..., GETTING HFCS, I'm a little remote, I've called everywhere remotely near me, no luck. I've reached out to every sugar dealer in my state, no one wants to deal on my level. and every commercial beek up where I'm at is in the same situation.


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## Branman (Aug 20, 2003)

So Arbol is aggressively going against what the manufacturer of Ultra Bee recommends. They recommend HFCS or invert syrup(which requires citric acid), and do *not* recommend using pure sucrose. It's not "bad advice," it's verbatim from Ultra Bee. And Mike Palmer has forgotten more about beekeeping than most of us will ever know. Tone it down, please.

I also wish I could source some HFCS.


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## jcase (Jul 30, 2016)

Branman said:


> I also wish I could source some HFCS.


Wish me luck, got a long trip off the peninsula today, in middle of calling every place I can come up with now.


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## Gumpy (Mar 30, 2016)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> Hey, here is _Michael Palmer_ on that subject ... note the oil in Michael's patty recipe!
> 
> Quote Originally Posted by Michael Palmer View Post
> New recipe...
> ...


Can you clarify this recipe? It says 6 oz veg oil But this link says 6 oz veg oil. This thread, though, says 6 cups veg oil http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...ePro-patties-or-pudding&p=1398833#post1398833


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Gumpy said:


> Can you clarify this recipe? It says 6 oz veg oil But this link says 6 oz veg oil. This thread, though, says 6 cups veg oil http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...ePro-patties-or-pudding&p=1398833#post1398833


I can't speak for Michael Palmer. But note that the MP post I linked/quoted (in post #10) was made just 1 week ago, and it includes the words "New recipe".


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## dudelt (Mar 18, 2013)

JCase, The only place I know to get HFCS in WA state is through Cargill over on Horton in Seattle. They may not sell direct (retail) but can provide stock for pick up through another retailer. I have heard of some who have ordered through Mann Lake and picked it up from Cargill but that was a few years ago. I have no idea about quantities that they sell at a given time and it may only be sold by the 55 Gal. drum. Give them a call.


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## jcase (Jul 30, 2016)

I'll them a call again, last year they didn't call back. 55 gal would be fine


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Gumpy said:


> Can you clarify this recipe? It says 6 oz veg oil But this link says 6 oz veg oil. This thread, though, says 6 cups veg oil http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...ePro-patties-or-pudding&p=1398833#post1398833


Hey Gumpy, thanks. You're right. Thanks for catching it. The correct amount is 6 cups, not 6 ounces.


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## Gumpy (Mar 30, 2016)

Michael Palmer said:


> Hey Gumpy, thanks. You're right. Thanks for catching it. The correct amount is 6 cups, not 6 ounces.


Thanks Michael. I'll update my notes.


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## Nhaupt2 (May 31, 2016)

Here is the recipe scaled down if anybody wants to use a 10lb pail of dry pollen sub to make it.

6 Pounds, 12 Ounces Water
16 Pounds, 12 Ounces Sugar
2 Cups, 6 Tablespoons, 1.25 Teaspoons Vegetable oil
10 Pounds Dry sub


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

jcase said:


> I've got no problem USING HFCS in patties, not sure I want to feed it in bulk, undecided on that but that isnt an issue... because ..., GETTING HFCS, I'm a little remote, I've called everywhere remotely near me, no luck. I've reached out to every sugar dealer in my state, no one wants to deal on my level. and every commercial beek up where I'm at is in the same situation.


My comment was in response to a post a few posts up.

Gotta be some commercials around somewhere close


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## jcase (Jul 30, 2016)

Ian said:


> My comment was in response to a post a few posts up.
> 
> Gotta be some commercials around somewhere close


Only commercials up here are all friends of mine, they are doing the same thing ... costco sugar. I'm going to try a trip to OR where I know I can get some, just need to figure out how to get a tote into and off my truck.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Boy, mixing sugar is so much work 
Our Sucrose is sourced straight from Rogers, sugar beats, our Corn syrup is sourced off the line at ADM, Pepsi I believe


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## Live Oak (Oct 11, 2008)

In my opinion, making patties out of Ultra Bee dry feed is wasting it. It was not designed nor intended to be fed to the bees in that form. Not sure why but my bees would NOT consume Mann Lake Ultra Bee patties. I found that bees will ravenously consume Ultra Bee if you feed it to them in dry form outside of the hive. You can make your own feeder out of down spout thin wall PVC 3 or 4 inch pipe or you can use the Mann Lake Pro Dry Feeder. I use both and have found the Mann Lake Pro Dry Feeder hugely cuts down on waste Ultra Bee due to it getting wet, the bees fanning it around, and mildew. 

By the way, if I understand correctly, Ultra Bee has powdered sugar in it. It is a fantastic all purpose alround bee feed in my opinion.

I waited until Mann Lake had their Black Friday sale with 11% off of everything and purchased a large amount of the Bulk Pro Winter Patty mix in the 50 lb. buckets. 

https://www.mannlakeltd.com/shop-al.../pollen-substitute/patties/pro-winter-patties

If you buy 40 or more buckets, the price drops to $45.95 per 50 lb. bucket. With 11% off, the price $39.95 per bucket. That is about 80 cents per lb. With free shipping, I don't think I could make it that cheap and it frees me up to do other things. I have about 250 lbs. of this Bulk patty mix in my hives and the bees are going to town on it consuming it. In fact, Mann Lake has 10 lb. buckets of this patty mix on sale right now for $14.95 per 10 lb. bucket and free shipping. I am not exactly sure but I believe the protein content is about 4.5%. Which is plenty for Winter. The Ultra Bee dry feed provides the high protein source for brood rearing.


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## jcase (Jul 30, 2016)

Live Oak said:


> In my opinion, making patties out of Ultra Bee dry feed is wasting it. It was not designed nor intended to be fed to the bees in that form. Not sure why but my bees would NOT consume Mann Lake Ultra Bee patties. I found that bees will ravenously consume Ultra Bee if you feed it to them in dry form outside of the hive. You can make your own feeder out of down spout thin wall PVC 3 or 4 inch pipe or you can use the Mann Lake Pro Dry Feeder. I use both and have found the Mann Lake Pro Dry Feeder hugely cuts down on waste Ultra Bee due to it getting wet, the bees fanning it around, and mildew.
> 
> By the way, if I understand correctly, Ultra Bee has powdered sugar in it. It is a fantastic all purpose alround bee feed in my opinion.
> 
> ...


Mine destroy the ultra bee patties.They love it.

It is so wet and damp here, I prefer to feed it in the hive. I will give it a go outside as well.


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## IsedHooah (Jan 13, 2015)

Ian said:


> Guys gotta get over HFCS... it’s a great way to provide the sugars while keeping all water out
> 
> , afterall, it’s the wAter evaporation which causes the rock hard old patty cakes. HFCS is hygroscopic, it will stay soft. The oils help with the fats


Ian, do you have a recipe that you use?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

IsedHooah said:


> Ian, do you have a recipe that you use?


I mixed my own for a while

10 brewers yeast 
10 soyflour 
5 dried egg
5 pollen
Cup or more of canola oil
HFCS

Provided a mix of roughly 50% sugars 
18CP and somewhere around 4-5% fats 
Not the best but the bees held their brood nests up very well throughout dearth’s


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

jcase said:


> Only commercials up here are all friends of mine, they are doing the same thing ... costco sugar. I'm going to try a trip to OR where I know I can get some, just need to figure out how to get a tote into and off my truck.


Costco sugar down here is NOT a deal they only do C&H sugar. If you are coming down to Oregon the best bet is to hit Cash and Carry for their White Satin Granulated sugar (50 lb bags). Normal price is $22/ 50 lb and it goes on sale regularly for $19/50. That is almost $5 a bag less than Costco. You can call down to their distribution hub on Columbia Blvd and get seconds for ‘animal feed’ fill out a form and it is about $0.40 lb depending on the commodity pricing.


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## gnor (Jun 3, 2015)

Live Oak said:


> In my opinion, making patties out of Ultra Bee dry feed is wasting it.


If I feed at all, it will be in late February when the hives are often covered in snow. Making patties is the easiest way to feed in the hive where the bees can get at it.

Once Birch and Willow pollen is available, they are on their own.


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