# Sticky  Successful Queen Introduction tips.



## Honey-4-All

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can I get another one from someone else brothers????inch:


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## JRG13

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

Amen brother


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## AstroBee

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

Good stuff! Worthy of "Sticky" status.


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## hideawayranch

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

I just purchase four Russian queens and need to make splits and install them in the splits/ well actually nucs. My friend told me she has 0 success with her Russian Queens being accepted, now I'm bummed, thinking great I've spend the money/time/effort. I'm gonna go outside build the nucs install the queens and they'll be killed. I know kinda a defeatist mentality, not really me normally. But......some people say you have to leave the nuc queenless for 24 hours, is this necessarily true?? Should I keep the queenless nuc closed up until I introduce the queen? I have never quick released so I know I won't do that. would you be will to elaborate a bit on your nuc building process??


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## Tenbears

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

Harry, Very good post and one that was needed. All to often those who have read material pass it on weather they have verified it's viability. And if they did and it happened to work they will swear by the most ridicules theory. The internet has opened a new venue of knowledge acquisition. However it has also allowed the opportunity for those who have no clue to pass on the most absurd theories. It's a good thing if it is not true it cannot be posted on the internet.


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## Agis Apiaries

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

Thanks Harry. Nice to see advice on here that doesn't start with "I heard that..." or "I once read..."


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## JRG13

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

No, don't leave them queen less 24 hours, make up your nucs, by the time you're done moving them to their new location, they know they're queen less, put the cages in, close them up and check back in a week or so


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## David LaFerney

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

:thumbsup:

So true.


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## WBVC

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

Thank you for this post.

I do have a question.

If one has Queens in mating Nucs and wishes to put them in new Nucs or Queenless hives what is the best way? Do you need to purchase Queen cages and put them in with attendants and then close with candy?

Can you use a push in cage over some capped brood...assuming there is some.

If there is no longer capped brood in the receiving hive how best to introduce the new Queen? I will be faced with that situation in about 10 days time.


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## Mbeck

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

Amen!
I recently sold a few packages with the recommendation to stay out of them for 10 days after install, the reports I recieved back seems to indicate the longest anyone could wait was 5 days!


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## Tenbears

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*



WBVC said:


> Thank you for this post.
> 
> I do have a question.
> 
> If one has Queens in mating Nucs and wishes to put them in new Nucs or Queenless hives what is the best way? Do you need to purchase Queen cages and put them in with attendants and then close with candy?


JzBz cages work well for that purpose. They can have candy installed and they are reusable you can get a carrying case that attendants can be placed in to transport if needed.


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## David LaFerney

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

If you are caging a queen and immediately introducing it to another hive without shipping or other long delays then you don't need to worry about attendants. You can reuse most queen cages with a little bit of effort - pull a staple, mix honey and powdered sugar to make stiff candy, stuff it in there and restaple the screen. If you don't have an old cage someone in your club will.

You are in your local club - right?


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## snapper1d

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

Another Amen! Harry hit the nail on the head!!!


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## billabell

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

Harry,
This works with laying workers? That would be great because I was thinking the only way to save a hive with this problem was to combine with a really strong hive. Now I am thinking of putting in a couple of mixed brood frames from another hive and the queen in the cage between them as you suggest. We are in our nectar flow and I didn't want to disturbe a strong hive if I didn't have to.


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## TPalmer

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

The reason Bee Source works. People who have been there and done that are helping people like me who who are getting their and trying that. So thank you for a great how to post.


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## shinbone

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*



AstroBee said:


> Good stuff! Worthy of "Sticky" status.


+1!


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## Ian

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

Good post Harry

I get 95% plus acceptance with a 4-5 day manual release. I find the candy so inconsistent between suppliers, 2 day release is too soon IMO

I agree, minimal disturbance during release and after is key.
This rule especially holds true when inserting cells and mating queens.


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## jim lyon

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*



Ian said:


> Good post Harry
> 
> I get 95% plus acceptance with a 4-5 day manual release. I find the candy so inconsistent between suppliers, 2 day release is too soon IMO
> 
> I agree, minimal disturbance during release and after is key.
> This rule especially holds true when inserting cells and mating queens.


I agree Ian. We haven't done mated queens in years but when we did I was always concerned with the consistency of the candy. I've seen it vary from rock hard to quite soft. It's a good idea to at least probe it with a nail to be sure it's pliable. The manual release Ian speaks of is nice but often not a workable option for commercials.


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## Ian

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

Except for this commercial. Quick work. We place the cages ontop the cell bars, under the quilt in that nice hive tip rim space. After 4 days Pull the quilt back, check on her viability, pull the cork and poke the candy. She will be out later that day. 
$35-40 early queens up here... We spend the time


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## David LaFerney

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*



jim lyon said:


> I agree Ian. We haven't done mated queens in years...


Do you requeen with cells then?


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## jim lyon

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

Yes, it works well for us but not for everyone's situation. Lots of commercials keep their numbers up by squeezing in some mated queen nuc making between pollination gigs.


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## Daniel Y

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

Thank you Harry, This is a supreme thread


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## Flyer Jim

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*



jim lyon said:


> I was always concerned with the consistency of the candy. I've seen it vary from rock hard to quite soft. It's a good idea to at least probe it with a nail to be sure it's pliable.


Yep :thumbsup:

Sometimes hard as nails


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## HarryVanderpool

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*



Flyer Jim said:


> Yep :thumbsup:
> 
> Sometimes hard as nails


This presents no problem.
After the candy is heated to the brood nest temperature, it softens right up.
The queen WILL be released.


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## HarryVanderpool

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*










As I mentioned, I enjoy starting up a group of brand new hives every year out behind our barn right after tree-fruits.
Usually 32 - 48.
These are not moved until almonds the next spring.
They are started from packages that I shake for myself in most years.
I started 32 on the 5th of April this year.
I did not "check to make sure the queen was released" until the 3rd of May.
All of the queens were accepted as usual.

By using the method described previously, I avoid problems with two very critical time periods in queen introduction:
1) The moment the queen walks out of the cage and DOES NOT GET BALLED due to disruption.
2) Disruption in the hive prior to all forms of brood pheromone are in balance in the hive to avoid the balling impulse.

Once the hive has a balanced bouquet of brood and queen pheromones, the odds of queen balling are minimal.
This does not mean that it can't happen, but it usually does not.










I have 8 pallets behind the barn this year and they are all exactly the same. Beautiful! 
Remember: K.I.S.S.!


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## jim lyon

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*



HarryVanderpool said:


> This presents no problem.
> After the candy is heated to the brood nest temperature, it softens right up.
> The queen WILL be released.


Most queen suppliers have their candy formulations down pretty good but I have seen candy hard as a rock even after being at queen bank temps. I had an experience a number of years ago where some queens hadn't been released 3 weeks later. It can happen. It's pretty easy to probe your candy just to make sure you know what you've got.


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## AstroBee

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

Harry,

Your equipment looks like it came out of a laboratory not a bee yard. I've seen your other pics over the years and its remarkable how nice you keep your equipment!

Regarding the laying worker reference, I've had VERY poor acceptance rates trying to requeen them, and I'm not sure that even the best technique is going to convince them to accept a new queen. Several years back, I stopped attempting to requeen them and instead combine with another hive. Is there anything else you recommend for a laying worker?

Another tip when I requeen, I place the cage on the top bars and simply observe for a few minutes how the bees respond to the new queen. I've found that this tells you a lot about their willingness to accept her.


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## Ian

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

I also spray the hive with a diluted HBH mix. Instead of smoke, it keeps the hive calm and out of that defensive mood and helps merge new scents within the hive


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## beepro

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

Is there anything else you recommend for a laying worker?

I did an experiment last year attempting to requeen a LW hive and a 2nd attempt to
requeen a nuc hive with an expensive queen. Both worked out very well. What I did was
wrap the entire frame of capped broods about to emerge with a large piece of window wire screen. And thumb tact the 
screen all over so the bees cannot get out. Then put in about 50 young nurse bees along with the queen inside the wire frame cage.
As more young bees emerged and the queen was laying all the LWs bees disappeared later on. The expensive queen also got accepted and laying successfully. 
A small push in cage is not enough in my situation because the more bees that can spread the queen's scent the better her acceptance. So maybe you can try
this method to requeen a LW hive too.


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## WBVC

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

What is the zig zag clear stuff with the wood divider In the feeder in the front space of your hives?



HarryVanderpool said:


> As I mentioned, I enjoy starting up a group of brand new hives every year out behind our barn right after tree-fruits.
> Usually 32 - 48.
> These are not moved until almonds the next spring.
> They are started from packages that I shake for myself in most years.
> I started 32 on the 5th of April this year.
> I did not "check to make sure the queen was released" until the 3rd of May.
> All of the queens were accepted as usual.
> 
> By using the method described previously, I avoid problems with two very critical time periods in queen introduction:
> 1) The moment the queen walks out of the cage and DOES NOT GET BALLED due to disruption.
> 2) Disruption in the hive prior to all forms of brood pheromone are in balance in the hive to avoid the balling impulse.
> 
> Once the hive has a balanced bouquet of brood and queen pheromones, the odds of queen balling are minimal.
> This does not mean that it can't happen, but it usually does not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have 8 pallets behind the barn this year and they are all exactly the same. Beautiful!
> Remember: K.I.S.S.!


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## David LaFerney

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*



jim lyon said:


> Yes, it works well for us but not for everyone's situation. Lots of commercials keep their numbers up by squeezing in some mated queen nuc making between pollination gigs.


So, you just put a ripe cell in the queenright hive? Where in the hive and when in the season do you do it?


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## HarryVanderpool

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*



beepro said:


> Is there anything else you recommend for a laying worker?


I'm sure you know all of this but for those following along:

The first thing is to precisely determine if you have laying workers OR a drone laying queen.
When one starts to pull frames and finds mostly bulletized drone cells all across the faces of the frame, one might think, "laying worker."

I do stumble upon hives like that, numerous times throughout the year and it is almost always a drone laying queen.
I have found one laying worker hive this year and maybe a dozen or three drone layers.
Although the drone cells look very similar, the egg pattern is very different between the two.

When you have a drone laying queen, you will typically find perfectly layed eggs, dead center in the cells just like you would expect from a normal healthy queen. BUT they are all producing drones.
Or you may have a very hard time finding eggs at all.

In the rare case of a laying worker situation, you will normally find multiple eggs per cell and layed all over the place in the cells.

One myth that has been totally debunked is the notion that shaking out a laying worker out on the ground will result in the laying workers NOT being able to return to the hive.
Extensive research was done several years ago in which the workers actively laying were marked.
When shaken out onto the ground across the yard they all returned back to the hive.
My hunch is that the shaking procedure worked many, many times on hives with drone layers that beekeepers THOUGHT were laying worker hives. This reinforced the myth.

It is necessary to either find and remove, or shake out drone layer hives prior to adding a new queen. If you do not do so, you can throw queen after queen at that hive until you empty the bank.

After that, both cases are requeened the same:
1) Move the frames of drone brood as far away in the hive from center as possible.
2) Add at least 2, more if available of mixed brood WITH ADHERING NURSE BEES to the center of the brood nest and install the queen cage with candy exposed between those frames.

One thing that I have witnessed goes against what I was led to believe about laying worker hives:
I was taught buy some pretty smart folks that know bee biology WAY more than I do, that brood pheromone CANCELS laying workers activity.
Then, I would make a repair on such a hive, go back 10 days later and still see drone brood appearing!!???

It wasn't until later that I found, that queens are often accepted and laying right alongside laying workers for a period of time.
The new queen lays and the laying workers continue to lay for a short period of time.
I am sure that in the past I would see the drone brood and not take the time to look and make sure if the new queen was accepted or not.
Since then, I have found that if she was introduced properly, she is usually accepted and unlike what I had been taught; it takes time for the laying workers to disappear. 

So the bottom line is that in either situation, we need to SLOW DOWN and take a little more time in our diagnosis.
First, we need to absolutely ascertain laying worker or drone layer.
Secondly, after a laying worker re-queen, we need to take extra time in frame inspection before throwing our hands up in the air and assuming defeat. 

In both situations, mixed brood frames and a queen installed between them, utilizing the candy, time release introduction, with AT LEAST 10 days of no disruption is our standard procedure.


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## HarryVanderpool

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*



WBVC said:


> What is the zig zag clear stuff with the wood divider In the feeder in the front space of your hives?



Aluminum window screen that is cut at 24"long and the depth of the feeder, folded.
Cut a slot in the middle just enough to allow a wooden block to be nailed in place to keep the feeder from closing in.
The screen acts as a great ladder to prevent drowning and also as a baffle to minimise splashing if the feeders were filled prior to moving, (heaven forbid!).
Some folks place the feeders toward the middle of the pallet so that they can just slide the lid to fill.
I place mine to the outside to allow clustering toward the middle of the pallet in the winter and the added dead air space as insulation as shown.
Both rationals have merit.


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## Brad Bee

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

Harry do you have any advice on how to introduce caged queens to bees pulled from an, about to swarm hive? I made 3 nucs Wednesday and removed all queen cells from the frames as I put them in the nucs. I put the queens queens in the nucs after they were queenless for about 4 hours. I did not open the candy end of the cage. I checked today and all 3 nucs had made more queen cells. I tore those down. In hindsight I should have waited until tomorrow and then they would likely not have had any larvae to make more queen cells from.

I still have the candy end closed on the cage. 

Do you think this install will be successful, or should I make up nucs from a hive not in swarm prep to put the queens in?


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## MTN-Bees

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

Harry: Thanks for a great thread. I've always gone in and pulled the queen cages on day 3, then leave them alone for 7 days. I will be changing the way I introduce queens. 

Do you have a preference on the type of Queen cage?

If attendants are in the cage- do you remove them or leave them?


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## WBVC

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

Will an excluder segregate a drone laying Queen the same as any other Queen or is she small enough to get through?

If she is too large to get through if one divided the hive by using Queen excluders then:

If it is Drone laying Queen the eggs should be restricted to the Queen area
If it is laying inc workers would eggs and brood appear throughout the hive regardless of the excluders?



HarryVanderpool said:


> I'm sure you know all of this but for those following along:
> 
> The first thing is to precisely determine if you have laying workers OR a drone laying queen.
> When one starts to pull frames and finds mostly bulletized drone cells all across the faces of the frame, one might think, "laying worker."
> 
> I do stumble upon hives like that, numerous times throughout the year and it is almost always a drone laying queen.
> I have found one laying worker hive this year and maybe a dozen or three drone layers.
> Although the drone cells look very similar, the egg pattern is very different between the two.
> 
> When you have a drone laying queen, you will typically find perfectly layed eggs, dead center in the cells just like you would expect from a normal healthy queen. BUT they are all producing drones.
> Or you may have a very hard time finding eggs at all.
> 
> In the rare case of a laying worker situation, you will normally find multiple eggs per cell and layed all over the place in the cells.
> 
> One myth that has been totally debunked is the notion that shaking out a laying worker out on the ground will result in the laying workers NOT being able to return to the hive.
> Extensive research was done several years ago in which the workers actively laying were marked.
> When shaken out onto the ground across the yard they all returned back to the hive.
> My hunch is that the shaking procedure worked many, many times on hives with drone layers that beekeepers THOUGHT were laying worker hives. This reinforced the myth.
> 
> It is necessary to either find and remove, or shake out drone layer hives prior to adding a new queen. If you do not do so, you can throw queen after queen at that hive until you empty the bank.
> 
> After that, both cases are requeened the same:
> 1) Move the frames of drone brood as far away in the hive from center as possible.
> 2) Add at least 2, more if available of mixed brood WITH ADHERING NURSE BEES to the center of the brood nest and install the queen cage with candy exposed between those frames.
> 
> One thing that I have witnessed goes against what I was led to believe about laying worker hives:
> I was taught buy some pretty smart folks that know bee biology WAY more than I do, that brood pheromone CANCELS laying workers activity.
> Then, I would make a repair on such a hive, go back 10 days later and still see drone brood appearing!!???
> 
> It wasn't until later that I found, that queens are often accepted and laying right alongside laying workers for a period of time.
> The new queen lays and the laying workers continue to lay for a short period of time.
> I am sure that in the past I would see the drone brood and not take the time to look and make sure if the new queen was accepted or not.
> Since then, I have found that if she was introduced properly, she is usually accepted and unlike what I had been taught; it takes time for the laying workers to disappear.
> 
> So the bottom line is that in either situation, we need to SLOW DOWN and take a little more time in our diagnosis.
> First, we need to absolutely ascertain laying worker or drone layer.
> Secondly, after a laying worker re-queen, we need to take extra time in frame inspection before throwing our hands up in the air and assuming defeat.
> 
> In both situations, mixed brood frames and a queen installed between them, utilizing the candy, time release introduction, with AT LEAST 10 days of no disruption is our standard procedure.


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## HarryVanderpool

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*



MTN-Bees said:


> Do you have a preference on the type of Queen cage?
> 
> If attendants are in the cage- do you remove them or leave them?


I do have a preference for queen cages, but it is probqably no more than that; personal preference.
I only purchase mated queens in California Mini Cages with the candy tube.

All of my favorite queen producers ship in mini cages with no attendants.
But remember, they come in battery boxes with 1/2 lb of bees or so.

After using mini cages for a long time, three-hole cages look ridiculous and way, way too big!
I can see their use when it is necessary to include attendants in the cage; I get that.
But if I ever got stuck, in a pinch and HAD to buy 3 hole cages I would set down on a bench and transfer them to mini cages prior to banking them.


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## HarryVanderpool

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

Brad, it is so funny that you ask because I just got done doing the same rig-a-ma-roll!!
Every year my peach growers start screaming for bees while they are still in almonds.
So as soon as some bees hit the ground in Salem, I pull some directly off the semi and onto a truck to deliver the next day .
Every year these hives get PACKED with bees and honey from a number of sources by the end of pollination.
Some of them were right down to a day or so from issuing swarms; cells EVERYWHERE!!!
No eggs, a skinny, ready to fly queen, etc....
I have divided these hives 3 ways.

But now to answer your question:
I don't have advice just yet.
It appears that the way I am dividing these full-blown swarmy hives works out really well.
It appears to "Knock the swarm right out of them" as well.
But I don't want to post any thing just yet until I have proven, through repeatability, the process for a few more years.
Otherwise I am just another "junk on the internet" poster child.


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## beepro

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

I don't want to be another "junk on the internet" poster child either. So from what I have understand so far about the drone laying queen, she is just like a regular normal mated queen. Her size is the same as any average laying queen. It is her big thorax that prevented her from going through the queen excluder. Even a newly hatched virgin queen with the normal thorax size cannot go through a queen excluder.

"Will an excluder segregate a drone laying Queen the same as any other Queen or is she small enough to get through?"

So the answer is no, she cannot go through the excluder because her thorax is in the way. She will not shrink down or somehow get smaller to get through the excluder.

"If she is too large to get through if one divided the hive by using Queen excluders then:
If it is Drone laying Queen the eggs should be restricted to the Queen area"

Yes, she should be restricted to a particular area divided by the excluder.

"If it is laying inc workers would eggs and brood appear throughout the hive regardless of the excluders?"

Yes, because the LWs have a smaller thorax they can squeeze through the excluder. So using one will not prevent them going from one frame to another to lay. A LW is the size of a big fat nurse bee that has never fly outside the hive before. Since the excluder cannot restrict them you should see eggs and broods appear through out the hive.


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## Swiftwisdom

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

Harry, can you elaborate on what you mean by "she was a spent virgin"?

Also, If I may pose a scenario for your consideration ...the other day while doing routine inspections I found, in one of my queen-right hives, right on the top of one of the frames, a virgin queen being balled. I immediate grabbed an old JZBZ cage I had in the truck and placed her in it after blowing off the balling workers. Note, obviously I didn't have any candy to plug the end with so I used one of those caps that sometimes come with the JZBZ cages, depending on where you might buy them from. Anyway, I continued my inspection only to find my original marked queen walking around doing her usual job of laying eggs. All is well in the hive again...

Now, with all that said, what to do with this mysteriously appeared queen? Well, I also recalled that I had a split which I had just made a few days ago and figured I would place her in that nuc. So, the point being is that this virgin is in a cage that is capped and NOT plugged with candy. I realize that I can either go back to the apiary (a good 45 minute drive one way) and plug the cage with candy or I can wait a few days and release her myself. My question is...how long can a virgin be confined? I have read somewhere, I forget where, that a virgin has a very short window to get out and mate otherwise her ovaries won't ever develop. I don't know how true that is but I would like to know but can't find any answers via Google search. I would appreciate y'all's input. Thanks all in advance.


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## beepro

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

My question is...how long can a virgin be confined? 

I would say as soon as possible to go release her because within 3 days after hatching her hormones changes and the workers cannot recognize her anymore to say she is an intruder. When allow to freely roam from day one she gradually spread her scent all over the hive to enable her to secure a position in the hive. I recently got some virgins that got balled by the foreign bees that I put in their mating nucs. So I caged them for one day. The next day I released them using Karo syrup spread all over the frame of bees and the virgins. The one that survived this ordeal I let her be and everything is normal again. She was able to secure her position and got mated. It was a bit past due for her mating flight too. I was worried for a while since they've been balling her for almost 3 days already. So bring a bottle of syrup to dip the virgin in if they continue to balled her after you release her from the cage. The more syrup you put on the better but don't cover her head only her body all over and the other bees on the frame. If they accepted her then you don't need to syrup her up. 
Good luck on this one!


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## Brad Bee

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*



HarryVanderpool said:


> Brad, it is so funny that you ask because I just got done doing the same rig-a-ma-roll!!
> Every year my peach growers start screaming for bees while they are still in almonds.
> So as soon as some bees hit the ground in Salem, I pull some directly off the semi and onto a truck to deliver the next day .
> Every year these hives get PACKED with bees and honey from a number of sources by the end of pollination.
> Some of them were right down to a day or so from issuing swarms; cells EVERYWHERE!!!
> No eggs, a skinny, ready to fly queen, etc....
> I have divided these hives 3 ways.
> 
> But now to answer your question:
> I don't have advice just yet.
> It appears that the way I am dividing these full-blown swarmy hives works out really well.
> It appears to "Knock the swarm right out of them" as well.
> But I don't want to post any thing just yet until I have proven, through repeatability, the process for a few more years.
> Otherwise I am just another "junk on the internet" poster child.


Thanks for the response. I ended up tearing down the cells again yesterday. There was only one more built in one nuc. I finally found some 1/8" hardware cloth and made large push in queen cages. I turned the queen and attendants loose in the cage over capped brood and honey. I'm going to leave them be for a week and see how that goes.


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## Michael Bush

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

>My question is...how long can a virgin be confined? 

Anytime over three weeks and she will be a drone layer. Bad weather will often delay mating by a week. I would say two weeks is pushing it...


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## ApricotApiaries

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

Thanks Harry for the great thread. Lots of good wisdom for novices. 

My wife and I have only been keeping bees for 5+ years but we have been blessed by some really exceptional mentors. We now have about 100 hives and are raising quite a few queens for our own use. Here are a few other thoughts to add on. 

What Harry said is too true. Keep it Simple. Introduce your queens, use the candy. Remember, the queen producers make their living supplying queens. If their queens consistently failed acceptance, they wouldn't stay in business. Everyone has a bad batch, but be sure to evaluate your own methods before calling them to complain. 

For really big hives we even add masking tape across the candy to slow them down (poke a hole in the tape not the candy). DO NOT CHECK THE STATUS FOR 10 DAYS. If you check early, you might see confusing weird things like cells (they often start building cells while she is caged, only to tear them down later). If you wait much after 10 days, in the odd event that she was not accepted, you might have hatching virgins. 

Please please please, before introducing a queen into a "queenless hive," be sure they are actually queenless. There could easily be a virgin. Torn down and hatched cells are easily missed. The presence of a virgin will deny queen acceptance every time. If there is no brood left in the hive, introduce some brood with the queen. Itll increase your acceptance and help them rebuild faster. And again, make SURE there is not a virgin in the hive. 

The smaller the hive, the easier acceptance. So when you re-queen, ideally you are also pulling some bees out of it (making nucs/splits). I have talked to a few people who requeen with nucs. They get the queens accepted into the nucs, then introduce a nuc to the parent hive and pull out brood to make the next round of nucs.


----------



## zhiv9

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

Harry, do you leave the hive queenless for a specific period of time before introduction? 1 hour? 24 hours? 48 hours?

Thanks again,


----------



## Swiftwisdom

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

I would say as soon as possible to go release her because within 3 days after hatching her hormones changes...[/QUOTE]

Thanks Beepro...appreciate the quick reply and advice.


----------



## Swiftwisdom

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

Mr. Bush, just to clarify, your saying I can leave her in the cage, unreleased, upto 2 weeks? No threat or concern of what Beepro described as to hormone changes? Thank you in advance.


----------



## Michael Bush

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

>Mr. Bush, just to clarify, your saying I can leave her in the cage, unreleased, upto 2 weeks? No threat or concern of what Beepro described as to hormone changes? Thank you in advance.

I'm just saying a virgin queen can take three weeks to get mated and still be good but after that she is unlikely to be good. I would not push my luck as bad weather can delay things enough. But two weeks would be safe if the weather is good.


----------



## Swiftwisdom

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

>I'm just saying a virgin queen can take three weeks to get mated and still be good but after that she is unlikely to be good. I would not push my luck as bad weather can delay things enough. But two weeks would be safe if the weather is good.[/QUOTE]

Understood...thank you, again.


----------



## HarryVanderpool

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*



zhiv9 said:


> Harry, do you leave the hive queenless for a specific period of time before introduction? 1 hour? 24 hours? 48 hours?
> 
> Thanks again,


No.
And nobody that I know of does.

Pinch the queen, reassemble the box of frames with extra space between the frames that I have chosen to place the queen cage between just as a reminder, go to the queen bank and pull out a caged queen, insert candy tube, one wrap of cheapy-ass masking tape, go back to the hive and insert between chosen frames, shove frames together, replace feeder, fill feeder close up hive, put sticker on hive, write date on masking tape and place on lid.
Done deal.

If I thought I could improve my acceptance percentage by waiting to install the queen I might consider it, BUT WAIT!... It is impossible to improve my percentages!
Why mess with success?


----------



## Bkwoodsbees

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

Thanks Harry for taking the time to share some valuable information.


----------



## shinbone

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*



beepro said:


> Is there anything else you recommend for a laying worker?
> 
> I did an experiment last year attempting to requeen a LW hive and a 2nd attempt to
> requeen a nuc hive with an expensive queen. Both worked out very well. What I did was
> wrap the entire frame of capped broods about to emerge with a large piece of window wire screen. And thumb tact the
> screen all over so the bees cannot get out. Then put in about 50 young nurse bees along with the queen inside the wire frame cage.
> As more young bees emerged and the queen was laying all the LWs bees disappeared later on. The expensive queen also got accepted and laying successfully.
> A small push in cage is not enough in my situation because the more bees that can spread the queen's scent the better her acceptance. So maybe you can try
> this method to requeen a LW hive too.


beepro - I am intrigued by your requeening method. With the brood frame with queen and nurse bees enclosed with screen so bees couldn't get in or get out, how was the queen and trapped bees fed? Did the brood frame also include honey and pollen stores? Did bees outside the screened frame pass food store to the bees inside?


----------



## beepro

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*



shinbone said:


> beepro - I am intrigued by your requeening method.


How was the queen and trapped bees fed? I gave them a quart of syrup so that all the workers are fed inside the hive. They will
share the syrup with the newly emerged bees inside the frame cage too.

Did the brood frame also include honey and pollen stores? Yes, I on purpose selected a frame with emerging broods that has the
pollen and open nectar in it.

Did bees outside the screened frame pass food store to the bees inside? 
Yes, as the young bees emerged the workers outside the
frame will feed them. Inside the cage the young nurse bees also feed and take care of the laying queen.


----------



## shinbone

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

Beepro - Awesome. Thanks for the additional info.


----------



## Bkwoodsbees

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

Harry, I requeened 1 of my hives this morning. I followed your steps and will not open hive for 10 days. 1 question .....I placed cage in between 2 brood frames capped of course about 3/4 towards top. I put cage in screen facing down is this correct ? Or does it not matter? Thanks very much. Robert


----------



## HarryVanderpool

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

Hi Robert,
As long as the screen is available to the bees to feed the queen, the orientation does not matter.
However, I do not buy queens with attendants in the cage.
So I generally face the candy down so if it gets runny, it will not smother the queen.It sounds like you have the cage in a horizontal placement.
I am quite sure that you are O.K.


----------



## Bkwoodsbees

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

Yes I did place cage horizontal. Good idea if vertical place candy down. Queen supplier told me to leave attendants in cage and after few days they would be accepted as well. Thanks for reply. Robert


----------



## dudelt

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

I wish I had searched for this thread BEFORE asking my requeening question in the beekeeping 101 section earlier today. This thread answered all my questions! Going forward, I believe I should always search first... and then ask the question!


----------



## MTN-Bees

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

I just got done with my second round of queens. The 1st round I had a 25% failure rate as I removed the queen cages on day 3. The second round of requeening and requeening supercedures during terrible weather I had 100% success by leaving them alone for 12 days except to slide the lid over to fill the frame feeder. Thanks Harry!


----------



## Bkwoodsbees

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

Harry it has been 10 days. I have followed your introduction tips to a T. I checked hive today and the queen has been released and is laying like crazy. I found her on a frame while reversing frames with the dent. I went ahead and marked her. This is a result of good information put to good use. Thanks very much, Robert


----------



## Tommy Hodge

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

Welp, I must have done something wrong. Had a laying worker nuc and added two frames of mixed brood (some open, some capped) and placed a new caged queen between the frames and came back 10 days later to find no queen. She had been released but there is no sign of a laying queen. The colony did however build 3 queen cells on one of the frames that I added, so all may not be lost. Apparently, there were eggs and/or larvae of appropriate age to build queen cells and they were more interested in raising their own queen? We'll see what happens with these queen cells...!


----------



## clangen625

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

My hive has been taken over by a worker laying eggs. I have lots of drones capped. I am having a new queen shipped this week. Is it worth trying to add her in to see if they will accept her? This is our first hive btw. Start day was March 25th. I think the queen died at the beginning.


----------



## beepro

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

My experience with the LWs so far is that they
will not accept a new queen because they're thinking that
they have a queen in there already. You can risk it but I think
this new queen is doom for sure.


----------



## dudelt

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

Harry, thanks again for this post. After reading it on 5/26/15 I split 5 hives with purchased queens. I opened then today for the first time and all 5 are accepted and laying. Fixing a little wonky comb is far better than queens that never got accepted and lost hives.


----------



## ABruce

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

Hi , I read the post with great interest, but one thing I could not find so a question. I have three local queens picked up this afternoon, they were just caged and have attendants with them. Should I remove the attendants or can I leave them in ? 

thanks


----------



## dynemd

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

Leave them in, say I.


----------



## Arnie

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

Great info. Thanks.


----------



## Scpossum

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

4 splits + 10 days= successful queen intro. Hey! I'm 100% for the moment. :thumbsup:

Thanks for the advice.


----------



## Arnie

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

Re-queened two hives this morning using the Vanderpool Method.

I plan to go back for a look-see on the 5th. Will report back then.


----------



## Arnie

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

Checked and both queens accepted and laying. 2 for 2. Thanks, Harry.


----------



## Bkwoodsbees

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

7 for 7 another high five..


----------



## RichardsonTX

HarryVanderpool said:


> Every year I shake packages for myself to start brand new hives.
> Last weekend I queen-checked 32 hives that started as packages on April 5th.
> After installing packages, I only returned to the hives on multiple times to quietly slide the lid aside and fill feeders.
> ALL of the queens were accepted.
> They were accepted using the time honored candy, time-release method and most important; NO DISRUPTION for the initial period.
> 
> Ever heard of K.I.S.S.? That stands for "Keep it simple stupid!
> 
> I hope that those of you that have been bamboozled by the ****amamie, monkey-motion procedures outlined in "the books" will try our procedure next time.
> And I am open for any questions.


Harry, I have a couple of Buckfast queens coming from R Weaver in early April that I want to install in a couple of packages I am going to shake from my bees like you've mentioned above that you do. I'd originally planned on shaking those into a 5-frame nuc that would have a top feeder on it and foundation in the remaining combs along with all the bees from two frames of brood out of one of my production hives but not the actual brood itself. Then, I plan on hanging the queen in her cage, candy down, without doing anything to the cage, close up the hive entrance for 24 hours only, and then check back again in 10 days. Am I using the correct amount of bees? more? less? Any comments? 

Here, in April, the bees are bringing in nectar and pollen.


----------



## zhiv9

RichardsonTX said:


> Am I using the correct amount of bees? more? less? Any comments?


That's not really enough bees. If the nights are warm, I would go with a frame of feed, a frame of brood with attached bees and an extra shake of bees. I wouldn't close them up, but you will want to move them another yard.


----------



## Morris

Harry,

I was recently shown a queen introduction tool that was new to me. Basically it was a western frame with screen on both sides of the frame. The idea is that with a greater surface area of screen, the bees would have greater access to the new queen and therefore the success rate would be high. Any experience with this? Dies it make sense to you?

Morris


----------



## SAS

I wish I saw this post sooner!!!

Last year, was my first year re-queening and making 6 splits. 

I do not have a mentor, nor can I find one; so I had to read how to re-queen and make splits in books and magazines. 

So I did as the books and magazines said, and made sure that the queens where released within 3-days (as recommended ), and they were; but when I made my first inspection 7-days later (again as recommended by the books and magazines). only 1-of the 6 splits had a queen. Luckily, I was able to get 5-more queens within a couple days, and re-queened them. This time, I put some masking tape over the candy-end to slow them down on releasing the queens, and left them alone. When I finally checked them (couple weeks later) all queens were accounted for, and laying like crazy.

This year, I did the same thing. I made 10-splits. When I made the splits, I left them queenless for ~30 hours before adding the queens; at which time I added masking tape to the candy-end to help slow the release of the queens. It will be next weekend at the soonest, before I will check to see if they have been excepted. I don't know if using masking tape is a good idea or not?? It's the only thing I could think of to help slowdown the release of the queens.

I will do an update after my first inspection, and let you know if I was successful, or not.


----------



## MartinW

Harry,

I have read and followed the advice in this excellent thread. Question. Have you ever introduced Russian queens into your apiary and did you do anything different from your advice in this thread? Thanks.


----------



## BadBeeKeeper

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*



Tommy Hodge said:


> Welp, I must have done something wrong...added two frames of mixed brood (some open, some capped) and placed a new caged queen between the frames and came back 10 days later to find no queen. She had been released but there is no sign of a laying queen. The colony did however build 3 queen cells on one of the frames that I added, so all may not be lost. Apparently, there were eggs and/or larvae of appropriate age to build queen cells and they were more interested in raising their own queen? We'll see what happens with these queen cells...!


After 5 years of having zero issues with getting queens accepted I just had the same thing happen with a hive and a nuc. Carni queens, added brood and bees, left cages in for 24hrs before putting candy in. Next day, bees seemed to have no issues with the queens so corks swapped for candy plugs and they were left alone...was only going to be 3 days but weather and other things didn't work out so it was nearly 10 days later before checking.

Queens had been released but there was no sign of them, and both had a capped queen cell. Bahfungoo. The brood I added came from my Russian hives and I don't want or need any more Russians- I need more Carnis and Italians.


----------



## Camofrog

[EDIT: Disregard this message; I see it has been answered. I can't for the life of me figure out how to delete this post! Moderator, please delete this.]
Harry, do you have more specific tips for a laying worker hive? I am trying to introduce a queen along with a frame of mostly capped worker brood from a healthy hive. The queen is just in a small cage. I gather that with enough brood pheromone, the workers knock off the laying and will become more accepting of a queen. I'm not super hopeful that this queen makes it, but if they kill her I will just keep swapping in new brood until it looks like they are raising a queen or giving it up. Or should *I* just give it up? I have a swarm trap almost ready to go, so maybe it makes more sense to try and catch a new colony.

Thanks for your help!


----------



## One in Three

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

I have a hive box with bees that have been queenless for two weeks. I have no brood resources, no other hives nothing. I have a frame with a caged area holding a piece of 5" by 7" empty drawn comb. The weather is very hot today (117 degrees F). this evening I can get the backyard down to 100 F by watering. My plan is to put some honey and pollen into the comb release the queen and her attendants into the caged area, place the frame into the hive. Then I will wait until night seal the entrance and bring the hive into a 85 degree F room and feed the bees sugar water, protein paddys, and water. The temperature is expected to be 110 plus for the forseeable future outside. If I see any evidence of laying workers I will remove all of their comb saved during the cutout and let them start anew so they can't lay. Only the new queen will be able to lay on her empty drawn comb. I am new to beekeeping and have zero brood resources. This is my only hive. Update: I was hoping for some feedback, but I thought it was a bad idea to delay the re-queening. The queen came from Pendel out of California. I was hoping to get a queen out of New Mexico, but that fell through. I received a queen with attendants. The temperature was 119 today in Phoenix, so I waited until late in the day. I cleaned and modified the SBB and slatted rack. The good news is the covered brood that I saved from the cutout emerged so many of my bees are young. Two of the frames were removed; my friend who was a great help generally mounted the cutout comb upside down in the two frames, but the brood hatched anyway. Most of the work happened at night and the bees were hanging on things around the light. I moved the light over the hive and shook the clinging bees off of things where they were light worshiping. That brought all the bees to the hive. Soon I was able to turn out the light once they settled on the hive. The bees are now in protective custody, 85 degrees, and I'm feeding them sugar water, Dadant protein paddies, and water with a mineral supplement. Last I saw them before I placed the inner cover, the bees were mostly gathered around the queen cage frame. They are much quieter than they used to be. Next week I will open the sealed hive and probably release the queen.


----------



## Bee scared

HarryVanderpool said:


> Have you seen the movie, "Groundhog Day"?
> It is a comedy about a fellow that wakes up every day and it is the exact same day as yesterday.
> 
> Well it's Groundhog day once again on BeeSource because just like every year, it is story after story after tear-jerking sob story about queens not being accepted.
> But for me, as the poster describes their procedure, it is no surprise whatsoever.
> 
> First let me say that I have installed several boxes of queens (hundreds) so far this year.
> Exactly one (1) has not been accepted.
> 
> The first thing that you need to know is that the advice and procedures in almost all of the books is VERY, VERY POOR!
> And the information in the books is just repeated, over and over, book after book, never questioned and in my opinion and experience almost assures high failure rate.
> 
> Before we talk procedure, let me tell you how VERY GRATEFUL I am for my mentor, Kenny Williams of Oregon that taught me how to have a 98% annual acceptance rate for queen acceptance.
> When I was new and asked him questions, he often replied with a question.
> 
> Example: "Kenny, should I poke a hole in the candy plug with a nail"?
> "Why would you want to do that"? he asks in reply.
> "Well, so that the queen can be released sooner" I respond.
> "Why would you want the queen to be released sooner than later", he asks?
> 
> The answer is: YOU DO NOT want the queen released in any big hurry!!!
> What we want is to pull the cork from the candy plug, place the queen cage between frames of mixed brood, or in the case of a package, centered and then LEAVE THE HIVE ALONE so that the queen can emerge in the dark, still and quiet of the hive, having had the extended time release of the candy plug to aquint the bees with her pheromone.
> 
> Over and over and over and over I read, "I went back 2 or 4 days later to make sure the queen was released, and now I'm queenless"
> 
> Again, WHY are you worried that the queen will not be released? Why?
> The queen WILL be released. Stay out of the hive!
> 
> If a queen is not released, or is found dead later in the cage, it is for a few reasons:
> 1) she died
> 2) your package had a queen in the population
> 3)she was a spent virgin.
> 
> In 25 years of beekeeping, and thousands upon thousands of queen introductions, this has happened maybe twice.
> 
> Do you want a 98% queen acceptance rate? Here are some PROVEN tips:
> 
> 1) Do not poke a hole in the candy plug.
> 2) Always place the cage between frames of mixed, open brood (where the nurse bees are that are much more inclined to accept and care for her. Re-queen, drone layer replacement, laying worker, or hive start-up; all the same. Place her with brood and nurse bees. In the case of packages, just hang her centered in the hive.
> 3) Fill the feeder with syrup.
> 4) Place a piece of masking tape on the corner of the hive with the date she was introduced an DO NOT TOUCH the hive for at least 10 days other than to quietly fill the feeder without shuffling frames or otherwise making a disruption.
> 5) After 10 or better yet 14 days, gently move through the hive frame by frame until you find the empty cage. Remove the cage and then reverse one frame with the dent left from the cage. They will almost always repair the dent with worker cells if you do this.
> 
> So that is it. The problem that I read day after excruciating day her on Beesource is excess, needless micro-managing and ****amamie monkey-motion.
> I read books. I have an extensive beekeeping library.
> But when it comes to queen introduction, almost all the books give TERRIBLE advice.
> 
> I never direct release. (no need to)
> No push-in cages.
> No monkey-motion.
> 
> So here is a report:
> Today, I went to a yard of 64 hives that were all hard splits. (Hives directly split in half.)
> The splits were made on April 17th. Today is May 8th.
> I never returned to the hives after queen intro on April 17th.
> ALL of the queens were accepted.
> All I did today was to remove the cages and reverse one frame with the dent.
> 
> Every year I shake packages for myself to start brand new hives.
> Last weekend I queen-checked 32 hives that started as packages on April 5th.
> After installing packages, I only returned to the hives on multiple times to quietly slide the lid aside and fill feeders.
> ALL of the queens were accepted.
> They were accepted using the time honored candy, time-release method and most important; NO DISRUPTION for the initial period.
> 
> Ever heard of K.I.S.S.? That stands for "Keep it simple stupid!
> 
> I hope that those of you that have been bamboozled by the ****amamie, monkey-motion procedures outlined in "the books" will try our procedure next time.
> And I am open for any questions.


Great description and looking forward to following your method except for one point. Filling the feeder with syrup? We dont use feeders here on the sunshine coast in QLD australia. This part of the process, is it more about your local area or is this an integral part of introducing a new queen? 
What does giving syrup have to do if there is plenty of flowering trees about?
Sorry if this is an amateur question?


----------



## Arnie

Bee Scared,
The bees accept a queen more readily if there is nectar coming in to the hive. Hence the feeder. If you have a good nectar flow don't worry.


----------



## Bee scared

Arnie said:


> Bee Scared,
> The bees accept a queen more readily if there is nectar coming in to the hive. Hence the feeder. If you have a good nectar flow don't worry.


Thanks mate. If requeening an existing hive where the intention is to kill the existing queen because she is a dud. How long should you wait after killing old queen before introducing new queen? Min,max and optimum times please.


----------



## Michael Palmer

Why wait? Dispatch old queen. Locate new queen beneath push-in cage. Remove cage 4 days later. Job done.


----------



## Bee scared

I just wondered if I killed old queen and immediately introduced the new queen if the bees would be less likely to accept her? Though if waiting hours or a day the hive knows it's queen less and would be more likely to accept new queen? Didn't know if the bees could kill her in the cage before she even got released?


----------



## davpress

what Michael Palmer said.


----------



## Arnie

I don't wait.


----------



## JRG13

Order some nice II breeders and try this method....


----------



## JoshuaW

I've been introducing queens per the advice in Harry's OP: 10 for 10 so far, and four more queens to go this week.

Thanks Harry!!


----------



## Michael Bush

There is a world of difference in introducing a virgin, a caged queen or a queen that was laying a few minutes ago. I've take a frame with the queen on it and put it in a queenless hive with good success. But she was laying before, is still laying and has her entourage. I would never try that with a caged, shipped queen who maybe was laying a few days ago or maybe was laying a few weeks ago...


----------



## zhiv9

Michael Bush said:


> TI've take a frame with the queen on it and put it in a queenless hive with good success. But she was laying before, is still laying and has her entourage. I would never try that with a caged, shipped queen who maybe was laying a few days ago or maybe was laying a few weeks ago...


Brother Adam requeened on a large scale this way. Pulling the frame with queen out of the hive to be requeened and swapping it for the frame with a laying queen from a nuc.


----------



## PHSINV

The method described by the OP worked like a charm (put it in the hive, don't poke a hole, leave it alone for 10 days). I ordered some Ferguson Buckfasts, took 3 days to get here. Ran a wet finger across each of the cages to give them some water. Weather prevented me from actually putting them in hives (2 splits and one laying worker) until after they had been in their queen cages a week. Had my doubts thinking she might starve, but dutifully followed OP directions. 11 days later I am 3 for 3 at successful introductions including the laying worker hive. I'm a convert.


----------



## Redhawk

A real tried & true method, Harry. I did a cut out 4 weeks ago. No sign of the queen for 3 weeks but the colony stayed intact & was hauling in nectar & pollen after two weeks. I gave them another week to see if they would requeen, but they didn't, maybe because the old comb wasn't stable enough, don't know. Pulled the plug, set the new queen on the bottom of a new frame of brood donated from another hive, after 7 days I find the cage empty, & new eggs, larvae, & even new capped honey. Key is: leave them alone!!!!


----------



## Bee scared

HarryVanderpool said:


> Have you seen the movie, "Groundhog Day"?
> It is a comedy about a fellow that wakes up every day and it is the exact same day as yesterday.
> 
> Well it's Groundhog day once again on BeeSource because just like every year, it is story after story after tear-jerking sob story about queens not being accepted.
> But for me, as the poster describes their procedure, it is no surprise whatsoever.
> 
> First let me say that I have installed several boxes of queens (hundreds) so far this year.
> Exactly one (1) has not been accepted.
> 
> The first thing that you need to know is that the advice and procedures in almost all of the books is VERY, VERY POOR!
> And the information in the books is just repeated, over and over, book after book, never questioned and in my opinion and experience almost assures high failure rate.
> 
> Before we talk procedure, let me tell you how VERY GRATEFUL I am for my mentor, Kenny Williams of Oregon that taught me how to have a 98% annual acceptance rate for queen acceptance.
> When I was new and asked him questions, he often replied with a question.
> 
> Example: "Kenny, should I poke a hole in the candy plug with a nail"?
> "Why would you want to do that"? he asks in reply.
> "Well, so that the queen can be released sooner" I respond.
> "Why would you want the queen to be released sooner than later", he asks?
> 
> The answer is: YOU DO NOT want the queen released in any big hurry!!!
> What we want is to pull the cork from the candy plug, place the queen cage between frames of mixed brood, or in the case of a package, centered and then LEAVE THE HIVE ALONE so that the queen can emerge in the dark, still and quiet of the hive, having had the extended time release of the candy plug to aquint the bees with her pheromone.
> 
> Over and over and over and over I read, "I went back 2 or 4 days later to make sure the queen was released, and now I'm queenless"
> 
> Again, WHY are you worried that the queen will not be released? Why?
> The queen WILL be released. Stay out of the hive!
> 
> If a queen is not released, or is found dead later in the cage, it is for a few reasons:
> 1) she died
> 2) your package had a queen in the population
> 3)she was a spent virgin.
> 
> In 25 years of beekeeping, and thousands upon thousands of queen introductions, this has happened maybe twice.
> 
> Do you want a 98% queen acceptance rate? Here are some PROVEN tips:
> 
> 1) Do not poke a hole in the candy plug.
> 2) Always place the cage between frames of mixed, open brood (where the nurse bees are that are much more inclined to accept and care for her. Re-queen, drone layer replacement, laying worker, or hive start-up; all the same. Place her with brood and nurse bees. In the case of packages, just hang her centered in the hive.
> 3) Fill the feeder with syrup.
> 4) Place a piece of masking tape on the corner of the hive with the date she was introduced an DO NOT TOUCH the hive for at least 10 days other than to quietly fill the feeder without shuffling frames or otherwise making a disruption.
> 5) After 10 or better yet 14 days, gently move through the hive frame by frame until you find the empty cage. Remove the cage and then reverse one frame with the dent left from the cage. They will almost always repair the dent with worker cells if you do this.
> 
> So that is it. The problem that I read day after excruciating day her on Beesource is excess, needless micro-managing and ****amamie monkey-motion.
> I read books. I have an extensive beekeeping library.
> But when it comes to queen introduction, almost all the books give TERRIBLE advice.
> 
> I never direct release. (no need to)
> No push-in cages.
> No monkey-motion.
> 
> So here is a report:
> Today, I went to a yard of 64 hives that were all hard splits. (Hives directly split in half.)
> The splits were made on April 17th. Today is May 8th.
> I never returned to the hives after queen intro on April 17th.
> ALL of the queens were accepted.
> All I did today was to remove the cages and reverse one frame with the dent.
> 
> Every year I shake packages for myself to start brand new hives.
> Last weekend I queen-checked 32 hives that started as packages on April 5th.
> After installing packages, I only returned to the hives on multiple times to quietly slide the lid aside and fill feeders.
> ALL of the queens were accepted.
> They were accepted using the time honored candy, time-release method and most important; NO DISRUPTION for the initial period.
> 
> Ever heard of K.I.S.S.? That stands for "Keep it simple stupid!
> 
> I hope that those of you that have been bamboozled by the ****amamie, monkey-motion procedures outlined in "the books" will try our procedure next time.
> And I am open for any questions.


Just a quick one, were about to requeen a few hives in the middle of a macadamia flowering. Bees go nuts getting nectar on macadamia and you really need to keep ahaed of them to stop them from swarming. Can you still take off honey supers when requeening or keeping away from the hive for 2 weeks. Was thinking of just lifting the lid and if filling up sticking a super on top but not going into brood??


----------



## JBJ

A couple more tips:

I cant tell you how many times we ship someone a queen and then when they receive it the recipient hive turns out to have a queen, either a bummer queen or a virgin... usually a virgin. No eggs does not necessarily mean no queen present. An easy way to avoid this is to add a frame of brood with eggs and wait 2-3 days. If they are truly queenless they will start queen cells and will be easy to observe. If one does not observe started cells they will never accept an introduced queen because they have some queen they are more dedicated to, even of it is a lame queen or a virgin.

Also when requeening laying worker colonies; we find that it is extremely helpful to swap spots with a queen right hive so the LW hive receives the field force. This provides a nice boost to the unit and has really increased our success rate. This is in addition to the tips Harry recommended. By the time a colony has developed laying workers the average age of the bees in the hive is geriatric. Adding brood and swapping spots are very key to acceptance and cleaning up all the nasty drone brood aftermath.

Lastly, if we are introducing queens or cells to a unit that has not been queenless long we like to lightly spritz the unit down with a HBH type formula. It really calms the unit down and we never see the cage getting balled or the cell getting torn down. Caution with this approach if you have been using HBH in your feed because the smell is pretty much a dinner bell and robbing could ensue. Bees are very trainable to odors.


----------



## RudyT

Interesting posts. Thanks to Harry and everyone.


----------



## R_V

:thumbsup: great info


----------



## herbhome

Thanks Harry,

Just read the entire thread. Really good info.


----------



## razoo

Just read this entire thread. Great info. A little worried as I helped a friend install a package. Day one put in the queen in her cage, day three I checked on her. She was released. 
I am concerned as I read here it is best not to bother them for ten days. We will be checking again in two weeks.


----------



## razoo

Michael Bush said:


> There is a world of difference in introducing a virgin, a caged queen or a queen that was laying a few minutes ago. I've take a frame with the queen on it and put it in a queenless hive with good success. But she was laying before, is still laying and has her entourage. I would never try that with a caged, shipped queen who maybe was laying a few days ago or maybe was laying a few weeks ago...


Like this info as well.


----------



## ktg

I installed 3 saskatraz queens about a month ago. One hive had been queenless for a couple weeks, another I made queenless the day before the queens arrived, and the 3rd I made queenless just minutes before I installed the cage. I checked them all at 10 days. The hive that had been queenless for weeks still hadn't released the queen. I released her and she ran down between 2 frames and was accepted. The other 2 hives had released and accepted their queens. All 3 are doing well now.


----------



## jwcarlson

ktg said:


> she ran down between 2 frames and was accepted.


Would love to hear if she was actually accepted. In my limited experience, if she's not released that usually means there's a queen (virgin?) in the colony.


----------



## AstroBee

jwcarlson said:


> Would love to hear if she was actually accepted. In my limited experience, if she's not released that usually means there's a queen (virgin?) in the colony.


Agree. I think you better go back in and check it out.


----------



## HarryVanderpool

There is another possibility.
Many of us that bought California queens this year noticed that the candy was much harder than normal.
I started hearing this from a number of beekeepers and then found a few that were not yet released after as much as 12 days.
It made no sense because it was happening to queens from different producers.
Then I was told (don't know if it's true) that most California queen producers buy their candy from a single source.
I noticed that my last box of queen's candy was back to normal consistency like it has been for years and years.
Maybe they got the message.


----------



## AstroBee

Harry,

I agree that candy could have been the issue, but since two others (assuming from the same batch) got released normally, that makes me concerned there may have been issues with the third one. The poster didn't provide details on how the bees were responding to the caged queen, so we're just guessing, but I would certainly want to go back and evaluate.

BTW, this is a great thread that you developed!


----------



## ktg

I checked on this hive today and the queen is doing great. It's a marked queen so I'm sure it is the one that wasn't released from the cage.


----------



## TwoBFlying

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

Thank you for the information. Once the queen is installed and waiting to be released, should the hive entrance be closed or open for the initial 10 to 14 days?


----------



## HarryVanderpool

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

There was a very good and valid concern expressed on another tread that I thought would add to the discussion:


little_john said:


> I've always considered the candy release method flawed, because there's no way of knowing for sure whether the queen has actually been accepted prior to her release.


So my answer to this, (even though it wasn't a question) is:
I know for sure that the queens are released and accepted based on years of statistics.
It is very rare that I have non acceptance. 
When I go back and queen check and find a hive that did not accept the queen, I slam the brakes on and CAREFULLY examine the hive, frame by frame looking for an old, beat up non laying queen that I missed, or a spent virgin queen.
There again, if I find that I missed something when I placed the queen cage in a hive, that is my failure; NOT the failure of candy release procedure.

Really, I should not state our acceptance rate at 98% because the 2% is almost always my screw-up at missing something.
We introduce hundreds of queens every year with the candy release method, turn our back, walk away and return hopefully within 2 weeks.
If everything in beekeeping was as reliable as queen introduction, life would be a lot easier!


----------



## HarryVanderpool

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*



TwoBFlying said:


> Thank you for the information. Once the queen is installed and waiting to be released, should the hive entrance be closed or open for the initial 10 to 14 days?



There is no need to close the entrance during queen introduction.
In fact, I cant think of any reason to ever close an entrance other than for a couple of minutes after OAV delivery.
Some beekeepers like to block the entrance when they move a hive or two. 
We never block entrances.


----------



## maxbees

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

What about this situation :
Swarm 1,5kg after 2 days arrive to me 
I want to use foundationless frames and let the bees do all drawing 
I will buy queen from another place and introduce her after adding swarm into hive ...
So :
I this possible ? any advice what can be problem here 
Will bees accept queen and how to introduce her the best here ? 
How long will bees need to draw all comb ? 
will they make too much mess ? 
Is it bether to split to 3 nucleus 500gr bees each nucleus and buy 3 queens ?


----------



## physicsdude

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

Thanks for the great thread. When I have used this method with European bees (granted, not much experience here), I've had a high acceptance rate. Doing so with Africanized bees is another matter. I've had somewhat less than a 50% success rate, and this generally involves splitting the hives so they are small, if not tiny, leaving the cage plugged for 6 days, removing the plug and letting the bees release her themselves, and then leaving the hive alone for 10 days. Last time I tried this with 4 splits from 2 small hives, and they killed 3 out of 4 of my $35 queens.


----------



## Loves Daisy

Thank you so much for that post. I need that information today!


----------



## Jdt0517

Hey everyone looking for some guidance. I have an extremely aggressihve hive that I’m completely over their attitude and want to requeen. The honey production is nice but when you get hit 35-40’ away from the hive by guard bees I draw the line. My question is how soon from pinching the current queen do I introduce the new bought queen in her cage? Thanks for all the help.


----------



## JWPalmer

If you think the hive is nasty now, 15 min. after you pinch the queen they are gonna be downright hostile. I like to wait about an hour when doing splits and this is very similar. David at Barnyard Bees recommends no more than 24 hours and introduces his new queens pretty much right away. Separate the boxes while you hunt down the mean queen. Set the new caged queen on the brood box that is making the most noise. Evaluate the bee's response to her. Reassemble the hive with the new queen (still in her cage) if all is well and cross your fingers.


----------



## little_john

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*



HarryVanderpool said:


> Really, I should not state our acceptance rate at 98% because the 2% is almost always my screw-up at missing something.
> We introduce hundreds of queens every year with the candy release method, turn our back, walk away and return hopefully within 2 weeks.
> If everything in beekeeping was as reliable as queen introduction, life would be a lot easier!


Statistics are so often used to support arguments - but I wonder how useful statistics really are in our everyday lives ?

Take for example weather forecasters: "there's a 80% chance of rain". Now from a remote academic perspective, that statement may indeed have some relevance - but for the individual farmer who's trying to decide whether to spray or not, or for a person who's concerned about whether to wear a raincoat that day - then it's either going to rain, or it's not going to rain. And that's a 50/50 binary situation from their point of view - for those 'on the ground', as it were.

Perhaps a better example would be crossing the road. In a remote rural area, such as where I live, I think it would be fair to say that there's probably a 98% (or thereabouts) chance of crossing the road without injury with your eyes tightly shut. So - should we then disregard the normal practice of looking-out for traffic before we cross such a road ? Isn't it far better to make a check, even though for 98% of the time, that check proves to be unnecessary ?

As I see it, it's the same when introducing mated queens. I'm sure you're absolutely right, from a statistical point-of-view, and this will no doubt be relevant for those introducing large numbers of queens, when a tiny percentage of failures can be offset against the not inconsiderable time needed to make individual checks on such large numbers. But what of the small-scale beekeeper who is about to introduce just one or two queens, or someone who has made a very expensive purchase, and for whom failure isn't considered to be an acceptable option ? Isn't it then far wiser for that person to make a simple check for acceptance before either directly releasing, or before allowing the candy to be accessed ? It's such a simple thing to do (like checking for traffic before crossing the road) in order to avoid becoming that 1 or 2% statistic.
LJ


----------



## Daniel Y

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

Well john, given a 98% success rate for introducing mated queens. I would certainly hope that people would have far better crossing the road odds than that. For example here on our very busy city streets I think maybe there is one person hit by a car for every several million street crossings. But I would suggest that if want to cross the road. you have someone hold your hand. As for checking on an introduced queen being as easy as crossing a country road. Your kidding right? Probably not. more likely not one point of your argument has any validity. So although I am not really a fan of statistics myself. I certainly prefer them to your completely made up and ludicrous data.


----------



## Jdt0517

JWPalmer said:


> If you think the hive is nasty now, 15 min. after you pinch the queen they are gonna be downright hostile. I like to wait about an hour when doing splits and this is very similar. David at Barnyard Bees recommends no more than 24 hours and introduces his new queens pretty much right away. Separate the boxes while you hunt down the mean queen. Set the new caged queen on the brood box that is making the most noise. Evaluate the bee's response to her. Reassemble the hive with the new queen (still in her cage) if all is well and cross your fingers.


Thanks Jw. I’ll give them an hour or so and introduce the new queen. I had thought about how aggressive a seemingly calm hive is before losing their queen and what this hive is going to be like after I pinch her. I was next to that hive last night for about 3 minutes and had 7 guard bees follow me as I walked back and forth across the back yard, then down the opposite side of the house, across the front of the house to the garage on the side, which is 200’ from the hive. How do I know there were 7 bees? That’s how many I swatted and stepped on so I could take my suit off to go inside.


----------



## squarepeg

if you haven't washed your suit and/or gloves in awhile that might help. the scent of the stings lingers on them and tends to get them agitated right off the bat.


----------



## Jdt0517

squarepeg said:


> if you haven't washed your suit and/or gloves in awhile that might help. the scent of the stings lingers on them and tends to get them agitated right off the bat.


Thanks for the reminder! I usually keep my suits pretty clean but haven’t washed them lately and I’ve never washed my gloves. They are all in the washing machine now!


----------



## Flyer Jim

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*



Daniel Y said:


> Well john, given a 98% success rate for introducing mated queens. I would certainly hope that people would have far better crossing the road odds than that. For example here on our very busy city streets I think maybe there is one person hit by a car for every several million street crossings. But I would suggest that if want to cross the road. you have someone hold your hand. As for checking on an introduced queen being as easy as crossing a country road. Your kidding right? Probably not. more likely not one point of your argument has any validity. So although I am not really a fan of statistics myself. I certainly prefer them to your completely made up and ludicrous data.


I think all the smoke from the fires must have blinded you, you sure didn't see L J's point.


----------



## little_john

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*



Daniel Y said:


> So although I am not really a fan of statistics myself. I certainly prefer them to your completely made up and ludicrous data.


I was trying to make a point by analogy, that's all, nothing more than that. I really didn't expect anyone to make literal interpretations.

There is an ongoing problem with queen introduction - the very existence of this thread confirms that. Will a recommendation to "do as I do to achieve the same percentage results" help ? Sadly, despite the good intentions of doing so, I suspect not - for in my experience people only 'read the manual'/ seek advice etc., *after* they've screwed-up. In such an event, the statistics of an experienced beekeeper's success has little relevance. Wish it were otherwise.
LJ


----------



## AstroBee

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*



little_john said:


> Statistics are so often used to support arguments - but I wonder how useful statistics really are in our everyday lives ?
> 
> Take for example weather forecasters: "there's a 80% chance of rain". Now from a remote academic perspective, that statement may indeed have some relevance - but for the individual farmer who's trying to decide whether to spray or not, or for a person who's concerned about whether to wear a raincoat that day - then it's either going to rain, or it's not going to rain. And that's a 50/50 binary situation from their point of view - for those 'on the ground', as it were.
> 
> Perhaps a better example would be crossing the road. In a remote rural area, such as where I live, I think it would be fair to say that there's probably a 98% (or thereabouts) chance of crossing the road without injury with your eyes tightly shut. So - should we then disregard the normal practice of looking-out for traffic before we cross such a road ? Isn't it far better to make a check, even though for 98% of the time, that check proves to be unnecessary ?
> 
> As I see it, it's the same when introducing mated queens. I'm sure you're absolutely right, from a statistical point-of-view, and this will no doubt be relevant for those introducing large numbers of queens, when a tiny percentage of failures can be offset against the not inconsiderable time needed to make individual checks on such large numbers. But what of the small-scale beekeeper who is about to introduce just one or two queens, or someone who has made a very expensive purchase, and for whom failure isn't considered to be an acceptable option ? Isn't it then far wiser for that person to make a simple check for acceptance before either directly releasing, or before allowing the candy to be accessed ? It's such a simple thing to do (like checking for traffic before crossing the road) in order to avoid becoming that 1 or 2% statistic.
> LJ


The abuse of statistics stems mostly from a lack of true understanding on the subject, or from someone desperately trying to influence a discussion with a bogus assessment of the data. I see neither in the posts offered by Harry. He is simply trying to cast some best practices into an area of beekeeping that is rife with conjecture and misunderstandings. Agree with his suggestions or not, but no need throw "statistics" into the mix.


----------



## AstroBee

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*



little_john said:


> Will a recommendation to "do as I do to achieve the same percentage results" help ? Sadly, despite the good intentions of doing so, I suspect not - for in my experience people only 'read the manual'/ seek advice etc., *after* they've screwed-up. In such an event, the statistics of an experienced beekeeper's success has little relevance. Wish it were otherwise.
> LJ


But isn't sharing our experiences on what works and was doesn't the primary point of having beesource? Just because some idiot doesn't want to "read the manual" doesn't imply that it shouldn't be written.


----------



## JWPalmer

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

Doesn't one of the posters use a tag line to the effect of "if you want to be successful, do what sucessful people do"? I find that to be very good advice. Won't guarantee success, but it is a heck of a good place to start.


----------



## HarryVanderpool

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

I am really grateful that Kenny Williams took the time to pass along his successful queen introduction tips to me.
He could have chose to just keep them to himself.
In this thread I have passed them on .
No one is shoving anything down your throat.
You are free to introduce queens anyway you want.
However you proceed, I hope things work out well for you and your operation.


----------



## GregB

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

Statistics are fine when included as a part of general context.
That's the premise.
Reasonably large sample size is one part of such context, for an example.
Say, 10-100 queens is a reasonable enough size.

Yes, IF you intro 10-100 queens and IF your conditions are confirmed similar to those who published the stats then you may depend on the statistical prediction of your acceptance success. This also helps out with the efficiency IF your context feels compatible to that of the published stats.

Otherwise, assumed statistical outcome is misleading. So why argue?
If you purchased ONE queen - forget the stats totally. 
It safest to just assume you are totally out of statistical context.
The stats don't apply to you.
Take all precautions.


----------



## PROOT

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

I just release ( tried ) a queen into a nuc that has her colony in it. she took a few steps and flew away
She coming back ?


----------



## snl

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*



PROOT said:


> I just release ( tried ) a queen into a nuc that has her colony in it. she took a few steps and flew away
> She coming back ?


I’m confused, what did you do and why?


----------



## PROOT

Captured a colony from a sprinkler box, brought back to my ranch 10 miles away, when I released the queen from the catcher she walked a frame then took off.


----------



## VickyLynn

I requeened 12 colonies to get new genetics and did as suggested. I went back in after 12 days and all twelve queens had been released and accepted. I'm a believer.


----------



## Azureus

What an excellent thread, with a lot of helpful information. In Los Angeles area, where I’m at, I’ve heard that 80% of the feral bees have Africanized genetics. A person on the thread noted the difficulties with queen acceptance in areas where Africanized genetics are found. Hopefully, in time, the success rate with be similarly impressive for bees with Africanized genetics.


----------



## LittleJoe

This post has great info in it for re queening. I don't even own a bee yet. My plan is to buy a couple of italian packages in the spring, but I want to use Beeweaver queens. Beeweaver is not shipping packages or I would just do that. I was just going to put the Italian packages in minus the queen, then add the beeweaver queen. Will this method work the same for what I'm planning to do? Thanks


----------



## HarryVanderpool

Azureus said:


> What an excellent thread, with a lot of helpful information. In Los Angeles area, where I’m at, I’ve heard that 80% of the feral bees have Africanized genetics. A person on the thread noted the difficulties with queen acceptance in areas where Africanized genetics are found. Hopefully, in time, the success rate with be similarly impressive for bees with Africanized genetics.


I don't want to contradict a fellow beekeepers advise or experience but here's mine:
Several years ago I had the memorable (ugly) experience of requeening a bunch of hybrids that were highly africanized. 
Prior to beginning work I contacted Dr. Ramesh Sagili at Oregon State University, formerly of Texas A&M.
He told me to requeen them in my normal manner.
The work was total fire and brimstone, hell on earth.
I dressed like an astronaut and plowed through wondering, "With the bees tearing me up this violently; how can the new queens make it"?
I pinched the old and placed the new queens in their cages for candy release on the spot.
There was no problem with acceptance.
And it was GOOD RIDDANCE to those ugly genetics a couple of months later!


----------



## snl

HarryVanderpool said:


> I pinched the old and placed the new queens in their cages for candy release on the spot.


Harry, are you saying when you pinched the old queen, you put her back in the cage with the new queen?


----------



## HarryVanderpool

snl said:


> Harry, are you saying when you pinched the old queen, you put her back in the cage with the new queen?


NO.
BUT, if I did, it would qualify as an activity that I identified in the original post:
"****amamie monkey-motion" :lookout:


----------



## HarryVanderpool

LittleJoe said:


> I was just going to put the Italian packages in minus the queen, then add the beeweaver queen. Will this method work the same for what I'm planning to do? Thanks


There's 1000 ways to cook a pot of soup and most of them taste good to somebody.
Here's a couple of ideas:
So, you're going to buy a couple of packages with queens _and_ buy a couple of preferred queens as well?
If so, you could ask around and sell the package queens easily to a fellow beekeeper.
Another option is to go to your local and State beekeepers meetings and find someone that will shake you a couple of packages of bees with no queens.
Yet another is to install your packages into your hives with the package queens, let the queen lay out several frames and then re-queen the hives with the preferred queens.
In any event, you MUST have a queen present when you install a package of bees in a hive.
So what ever route you take, you MUST have one queen or another to install in the hive along with the bees or you'll likely find an empty hive the next day.
Have fun!!

Timing


----------



## LittleJoe

HarryVanderpool said:


> There's 1000 ways to cook a pot of soup and most of them taste good to somebody.
> Here's a couple of ideas:
> So, you're going to buy a couple of packages with queens _and_ buy a couple of preferred queens as well?
> If so, you could ask around and sell the package queens easily to a fellow beekeeper.
> Another option is to go to your local and State beekeepers meetings and find someone that will shake you a couple of packages of bees with no queens.
> Yet another is to install your packages into your hives with the package queens, let the queen lay out several frames and then re-queen the hives with the preferred queens.
> In any event, you MUST have a queen present when you install a package of bees in a hive.
> So what ever route you take, you MUST have one queen or another to install in the hive along with the bees or you'll likely find an empty hive the next day.
> Have fun!!
> 
> Timing


Thank you, I will follow your advice.


----------



## minz

Couple of weeks ago one of my nucs had no brood but only a single queen cell. I figured it was done. At the bee meeting the speaker announced that he had broke down his observation hive and could not bear to pinch this queen. He asked if I wanted it and when I said yes he pulled her out and handed her to me. He had filled almost the entire section up with fondant. Next morning (Friday October 11 ) I popped open that nuc, first thing found and killed that virgin, gave them a frame of brood from an adjacent hive (throwing good money after bad) and then did what this thread says not to and poked a wire through the 1” of fondant. Now if I would have gone back the next day to check on them it would have been a mistake ‘grand slam’. 
I am running a 3 frames (and feeder) over 5 and wondering if I should let them alone or condense them to a single nuc?


----------



## Michael Bush

Old queens are too valuable in alcohol to pinch them. Put them in a jar of alcohol... then you can lure swarms out of trees and get cutouts to settle down in the box you are putting them in.


----------



## Vitaliy

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

Try this video. It helped me a lot!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4783Uo4UhTE&t=315s


----------



## dloucky

*Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.*

So, I'm an idiot. Tried to slow a crazy fast colony down by shaking some bees into a 2 frame nuc. I was sure I knew where the queen was. You know the rest of the story. She's now in the nuc, happily laying as fast as ever. I removed all the newly built queen cells in the original colony, since I want this one back in there. Is there a best practice in this case? She's been out of there for 6 days. Will they receive her without a formal introduction? Should I bring her back with her 2 frames from the nuc and remove a couple of frames of capped brood or stores. Thanks for helping me fix this! Be gentle. It's my first post!


----------



## Azureus

Thanks Harry for this great information. I bought a BeeWeaver queen and introduced her several weeks ago, exactly as you suggested. You wouldn't be surprised, but she was fully accepted.


----------



## Woofee

@HarryVanderpool This has been very educational especially for candy release, I have three packages arriving early April, and will follow your suggestions. 

My question is about queen cell introduction to a Nuc from a graft. I will take a frame of capped brood, frame of honey/bee bread, and frame of foundation all from a strong colony for the Nuc.

1. Should I introduce the queen cell as soon as I have built the Nuc, or wait 12-24 hours?
2. Should I place the cell in a plastic cell protector before putting in the Nuc?
3. How long before first inspection of the Nuc?

Will place Nuc some distance from donor hive, most likely about 20-40 ft away. 

Thank you for any correspondence you can give.


----------



## WindowBee

The experiences with healing people with *COPD* ( Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease ) show me one important thing - I was discovered (as ICU and anesthesiology physician in learning process) that exceed CO2 level is not damaging organs(usually) and cells but only lack of oxygen is harmful.
CO2 just provoke acidosis which change Nero-cells activity in the way what make ill human more sleeping and getting unresponsive to the stimulation in the end.
Then (many years later) I had a problem with acceptance of new cordovan bee queen which I bought in U.S. I just needed her and her offspring only to take some good looking photos and off course because my curiosity.
(i didn't have any conventional beehive so I couldn't use a pupae frame and isolation).
The acceptance wasn't full for prolonged time, some workers were still aggressive towards to the queen. So I was really afraid to loos her. The part of the season wasn't conductive - there was a too little time to cold period of the year.
I started to thinking how decrease the memory of the workers and then I found a solution what was successful also many times after.
I remembered to my self the COPD and CO2 "Narcosis" and artificial insemination method!
At night (when all bees are inside the hive) I put the all hive to the plastic bag and I put the gas(co2) in there.
I was waiting until all bees were immobilized. Then I put the queen - also under narcosis just on the lying- sleeping bees.
Gently put the hive in its previous place. After a few whiles the queens and workers ware awaken due the resolution of acidosis (its a while lasting state and can be in fast way reverse when we put the bees to normal air condition, the co2 is very easy diffusive gas).
The bees seems to loos all their memory , most of the bees have to start orientation flight next day, because they didn't remembered their hive location. This is very good situation to the queen. Bees as whole swarm had accepted queen just after were awaken, she also start brooding next day.

Physiological state of workers seems to be changed - the workers live shorter time than average, because they increase their metabolism I suspect (it make change to the overwintering bees or swarming bees), but queen is untouched by this method.

Very important thing is that all bees should be immobilized with CO2, if some aggressive individual will not - queen can be killed, despite narcosis of all others colony members.

That's are my observation.

Christopher


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## Plannerwgp

HarryVanderpool said:


> Have you seen the movie, "Groundhog Day"?
> It is a comedy about a fellow that wakes up every day and it is the exact same day as yesterday.
> 
> Well it's Groundhog day once again on BeeSource because just like every year, it is story after story after tear-jerking sob story about queens not being accepted.
> But for me, as the poster describes their procedure, it is no surprise whatsoever.
> 
> First let me say that I have installed several boxes of queens (hundreds) so far this year.
> Exactly one (1) has not been accepted.
> 
> The first thing that you need to know is that the advice and procedures in almost all of the books is VERY, VERY POOR!
> And the information in the books is just repeated, over and over, book after book, never questioned and in my opinion and experience almost assures high failure rate.
> 
> Before we talk procedure, let me tell you how VERY GRATEFUL I am for my mentor, Kenny Williams of Oregon that taught me how to have a 98% annual acceptance rate for queen acceptance.
> When I was new and asked him questions, he often replied with a question.
> 
> Example: "Kenny, should I poke a hole in the candy plug with a nail"?
> "Why would you want to do that"? he asks in reply.
> "Well, so that the queen can be released sooner" I respond.
> "Why would you want the queen to be released sooner than later", he asks?
> 
> The answer is: YOU DO NOT want the queen released in any big hurry!!!
> What we want is to pull the cork from the candy plug, place the queen cage between frames of mixed brood, or in the case of a package, centered and then LEAVE THE HIVE ALONE so that the queen can emerge in the dark, still and quiet of the hive, having had the extended time release of the candy plug to aquint the bees with her pheromone.
> 
> Over and over and over and over I read, "I went back 2 or 4 days later to make sure the queen was released, and now I'm queenless"
> 
> Again, WHY are you worried that the queen will not be released? Why?
> The queen WILL be released. Stay out of the hive!
> 
> If a queen is not released, or is found dead later in the cage, it is for a few reasons:
> 1) she died
> 2) your package had a queen in the population
> 3)she was a spent virgin.
> 
> In 25 years of beekeeping, and thousands upon thousands of queen introductions, this has happened maybe twice.
> 
> Do you want a 98% queen acceptance rate? Here are some PROVEN tips:
> 
> 1) Do not poke a hole in the candy plug.
> 2) Always place the cage between frames of mixed, open brood (where the nurse bees are that are much more inclined to accept and care for her. Re-queen, drone layer replacement, laying worker, or hive start-up; all the same. Place her with brood and nurse bees. In the case of packages, just hang her centered in the hive.
> 3) Fill the feeder with syrup.
> 4) Place a piece of masking tape on the corner of the hive with the date she was introduced an DO NOT TOUCH the hive for at least 10 days other than to quietly fill the feeder without shuffling frames or otherwise making a disruption.
> 5) After 10 or better yet 14 days, gently move through the hive frame by frame until you find the empty cage. Remove the cage and then reverse one frame with the dent left from the cage. They will almost always repair the dent with worker cells if you do this.
> 
> So that is it. The problem that I read day after excruciating day her on Beesource is excess, needless micro-managing and ****amamie monkey-motion.
> I read books. I have an extensive beekeeping library.
> But when it comes to queen introduction, almost all the books give TERRIBLE advice.
> 
> I never direct release. (no need to)
> No push-in cages.
> No monkey-motion.
> 
> So here is a report:
> Today, I went to a yard of 64 hives that were all hard splits. (Hives directly split in half.)
> The splits were made on April 17th. Today is May 8th.
> I never returned to the hives after queen intro on April 17th.
> ALL of the queens were accepted.
> All I did today was to remove the cages and reverse one frame with the dent.
> 
> Every year I shake packages for myself to start brand new hives.
> Last weekend I queen-checked 32 hives that started as packages on April 5th.
> After installing packages, I only returned to the hives on multiple times to quietly slide the lid aside and fill feeders.
> ALL of the queens were accepted.
> They were accepted using the time honored candy, time-release method and most important; NO DISRUPTION for the initial period.
> 
> Ever heard of K.I.S.S.? That stands for "Keep it simple stupid!
> 
> I hope that those of you that have been bamboozled by the ****amamie, monkey-motion procedures outlined in "the books" will try our procedure next time.
> And I am open for any questions.


Thanks but that information is not new as many of us have seen similar suggestions. Perhaps I didn't state my question precisely but I was more interested in reasons why a hive would reject a queen after a couple of tries. I have been a bookkeeper for over a decade and other than mites and disease have not found a good answer. 
Thanks


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