# Landowner spraying for Aphids HELP!



## TeJay (Feb 5, 2008)

I just received a call from the landowner, he is going to be spraying for Aphids in about 5 days. This is a tree farm and I guess the Aphid infestation is pretty bad this year.
The pesticide guy says he will be spraying Lorespan (sp?) and there is about a 24 hour kill rate. We have been told to keep the dogs and cats confined as well as our free range chickens and the Bees.

Can the Bees be confined to their hives for 24 hours? 

We know to cover the hives with wet sheets or burlap. We have inside top feeders, just need to figure out how to get water to them (don't have an entrance feeder for water)

I think a neighboring tree farm is spraying today from the sound of the airplane going back and forth...DRATS!

HELP!!!


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## Walliebee (Nov 17, 2006)

Lorsban is an Organophosphate pesticide that is in the chlorpyrifos pesticide group. It has a minimum of 4 - 6 days residual activity. It use to be sold for home and garden use here in the US, but is now banned due to it's toxicity.(Ag only) It is highly toxic to bees and amphibians, and moderately toxic to people. 

Lorsban's label:
http://www.dowagro.com/PublishedLit...h=ca/pdfs/noreg/010-20642.pdf&fromPage=GetDoc

Your bees can stayed confined for several days assuming they don't overheat and have fresh air available. Use the feeder for water instead of syrup.

Can you move them away for awhile, or move the hives inside a garage?


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## JoeMcc (May 15, 2007)

At least screen them with 1/8" hardware cloth and feed water. If you only have a few hives get enough hardware cloth to screen the tops and prop the lids for ventilation. I am also assuming there wont be a chance of drifting of the spray to your apiary. If there is possibility of drifting I would move them for a few days.

JoeMcc


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## TeJay (Feb 5, 2008)

I talked to Landowner again...he said that the spraying will be done by a crew with backpack sprayers and they will be told not to spray anything in flower.
He also said he is able to help us move the hives to our yard or the woods...too bad we put the hives where the tractor w/ bucket can't get near, so we'll need to eat our Wheaties Hive moving day...~lol~...We will then tent the hives with wet sheets so the bees can cluster outside the hive to help stay cool (supposed to be in the 80's next week)...How does that sound?

Thanks for the help!


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

*spray protection*

Bees hate to be confined; they will do everything they can to get out. A wet sheet may sound cool, but lack of ventilation is the main thing. If you really think there is a danger from spray, best thing is to move them, then put them back ( where they were ). Lorsban is deadly to bees but unless it is a large acreage or the material drifts onto the colonies, damage will probably be minimal. 

Be careful about trying to confine them. That can kill them as fast as anything.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*Alternatives to Using Chlorpyrifos*

Please move the bees.
If you have 10 hives that are exposed to Lorisban 4-e you will pick up 5-7 dead outs over the next few weeks.

http://www.beyondpesticides.org/alternatives/factsheets/alts to chlorpyrifos.pdf


MSDS:
http://www.cdms.net/ldat/mp02A087.pdf
Regards,
Ernie Lucas Apiaries.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*Table 1—relative Toxicity Of Pesticides To Honey Bees*

http://www.culturaapicola.com.ar/apuntes/sanidad/220_pesticidas_tiempo_tablas.pdf


TABLE 1—RELATIVE TOXICITY OF PESTICIDES TO HONEY BEES
DETERMINED BY LABORATORY AND FIELD TESTS (CALIFORNIA. 1950
through 1980.)
(Number-keyed notes on their uses can be found below table)
GROUP I—highly toxic: Severe losses may be expected if used when bees are present at
treatment time or within a day thereafter, except where noted to the contrary.
Pesticide (trade name and/or common name)
aldrin2 Famophos®, famphur
Ambush®2, 18, permethrin Ficam®, bendiocarb
arsenicals1, 2 Folithion®, fenitrothion
Avermectin®17 Furadan®2, 5, carbofuran
Azodrin®1, 2, monocrotophos Gardona®2, 5, stirofos
Baygon®2 propoxur Guthion®1, 2, azinphos-methyl
Baytex ®2, fenthion heptachlor1, 2
Bidrin ®1, 2, dicrotophos Imidan®2, phosmet
Bux®, bufencarb Lannate®2, methomyl
carbosulfan2 FMC-35001 Lorsban®, chlorpyrifos


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## LtlWilli (Mar 11, 2008)

An alternative to poisons would be to suggest killing aphids with a dormant oil. It will do the job without all the residual poison possibilities, and also save him a lot of money.
www.ext.colostate.edu/PUBS/INSECT/05569.html - 19k


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

*Group 1 materials*

Aaahhh yes;

so reminds me of being in seed alfalfa, Tulare lake bottom

all those lovely trade names, non food crop, self contractors

those were the days


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## LtlWilli (Mar 11, 2008)

Tom....I just did a quick search on Tulare Lake and failed to find what you are referring to...Please elaborate, if you do not mind.
Thanks


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

*Tulare lake bottom*

Hey Littlewilli

Great to hear from you...

The Tulare lake bottom is some of the richest land in Calif., And is like a kingdom unto itself. The best is controlled by the J.G.Boswell co., well portrayed in The King of California, by Mark Arax.

Many many sections of seed alfalfa & a commitment to excellence, and just as ruthless as you have ever seen.

The stories I can tell...


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## Barry Digman (May 21, 2003)

Tom G. Laury said:


> The Tulare lake bottom is some of the richest land in Calif., And is like a kingdom unto itself. The best is controlled by the J.G.Boswell co., well portrayed in The King of California, by Mark Arax.
> 
> Many many sections of seed alfalfa & a commitment to excellence, and just as ruthless as you have ever seen.
> 
> The stories I can tell...



Wow. I'd never even heard of Boswell, and I thought I was fairly well versed in the country's rich and powerful at the turn of the century and on into the 20's. Just a bit of research turns up a fascinating story. 



> J.G. Boswell grows and mills cotton on some 150,000 acres in the San Joaquin Valley of California which it sells to textile manufacturers worldwide. The secretive company is the country's largest cotton producer and is said to be the largest privately held farming venture in the US. It also grows tomatoes, wheat, sunflowers and safflowers. The company was established in 1921.



I thought J.R. Simplot was the largest privately held farming operation in the country.


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## TeJay (Feb 5, 2008)

To move the hives...does that mean a couple of feet a day?

I'm thinking that if we go through all that work we will just have to make a new bee yard. Problem with that though is over here in our area we only get about 6 hours of sun (we are under a lot of oaks)...Good thing about over here is No Spraying!


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## Barry Digman (May 21, 2003)

TeJay said:


> To move the hives...does that mean a couple of feet a day?
> 
> I'm thinking that if we go through all that work we will just have to make a new bee yard. Problem with that though is over here in our area we only get about 6 hours of sun (we are under a lot of oaks)...Good thing about over here is No Spraying!


It means move them completely out of the area until the spraying is finished and the residual toxicity is gone.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*Our Phantom Lake, A "Sportsman's Delight"*

http://www.calflytech.com/kingshistory/tulelake.html
Our Phantom Lake, A "Sportsman's Delight"
During the early history of the San Joaquin Valley, most of the land
which was later to become Kings County was covered by a large fresh
water lake, said to have been the largest in the western United States.
Supplied with waters brought from the Sierra-Nevada mountains via the
Kings, Kaweah and Tule Rivers, this body of water was named Tulare
Lake for the tules, or bullrushes, which grew thickly around it. An 1892
description by Thomas H. Thompson, a historian of the city of Tulare,
said: "The area of the lake at highest water (220 feet above sea level)
was 760 square miles." In his History of Tulare County and Kings County,
which was published in 1926, J. Larry Smith stated that the area
surrounding the lake "abounded in game and was full of edible fish."
There is evidence that its shores were a favorite habitation for Indian
Tribes and a stopping place for the aborigines and wild animals who
made their seasonal migrations across the valley from the Sierras to the
sea, and returning. An 1850 account told of "bands of elk, deer and
antelope in such numbers that they actually darkened the plains for miles
and looked in the distance like great herds of cattle."

Flint arrowheads and stone cooking utensils have been found in great
abundance upon the various shorelines, which have marked the periodic
changes in water area as the cycles of "wet" and "dry" years have rolled
on. Bones of the mastodon and other prehistoric animals have been
plowed up on farms located within what was once the lake bed.
Pioneers were catching fish in the lake in the latter half of the last
century. Commercial fishermen used huge nets to catch perch, mackerel,
lake trout and even salmon. At one time, the United States government
stocked the lake heavily with bass.

Professional fishermen, during the 1870s and 1880s claimed to have
caught up to eight tons of fish from the lake with only one haul of a
horse-drawn seine. Waterfowl, fish, frogs legs -- and even turtles -- were
sent to faraway dining establishments. Tulare Lake terrapin soups and
stews were commonly on the menus of hotels throughout the Pacific Coast.

Julius Jacobs wrote in his The Story of Kings County that millions of
fish were still breeding in the lake at the end of the 1890s and that
sometimes they could be "shoveled up by the very tubful." Those varieties
which were not particularly good eating were cooked and fed to the pigs.

The tules and other grasses that grew so thickly around the lake made it
an ideal habitat for ducks, geese, plover, snipe and curlew which the
sportsmen were able to bag by the hundreds and thousands. Reportedly, a
sportsman could walk the short distance from his Lemoore home to the
shores of the lake, shoot as many ducks as he wished and walk back to his
home in plenty of time for his evening meal.

The vast lake has been eliminated by the march of progress. Beginning
with the congressional passage of the Swamp and Overflowed Lands Act in
1852, its demise was certain. Reclamation districts were formed. Each
district built levees to protect its own holdings. In the meantime,
beginning in the early 1870s, much of the water was diverted into irrigation
canals. What was once lake bottom has become some of the richest
agricultural land in the world. The building of the Pine Flat Dam and
Reservoir was, virtually, the final nail in the coffin of Tulare Lake. Still,
in years of particularly high precipitation, the phantom lake
-- like a wet phoenix -- still tries to arise.
For additional information on Tulare Lake Click here
A QuickTime VR (Netscape/MS Internet Explorer plugin) panorama of Tulare Lake

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This page maintained by Robin Roberts. Last updated on 05 Jan 1999. Copyright © 1998 by California Fly Technologies 
rEGARDS,
Ernie Lucas Apiaries


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## LtlWilli (Mar 11, 2008)

TeJay...
I would opt to moving them all the way at one time with a two-wheel dolly, or whatever you may have. Even a srtong friend might be enough , with you both lifting.....At dusk, when I think that the last forager has come home, plug the hole with either a rag, duct tape, or even a beveled piece of wood that could be tapped gently into place. If the bees try to swarm out too much, a small spray bottle of water with a bit of vinegar will drive them back. They dislike that smell, and have used it with good success...Next, I would use a ratcheting tie-down, a rope, or strong bungee cords to insure that the hive cannot come apart(tight!...lol )...At that point, you are ready to go.
The opening can be opened a few hours after placement. In the dark, they will not care to take flight...They should be calmer by then, and will need the ventilation that the entry provides....Like the others have written, place something with the hives so that they will know their way back after foraging.... If lack of sunlight in the Winter is your concern, you can move them back, or cut limbs so that sunlight comes thru. Of course, bees are not Arctic-proof by any means, but they can survive surprisingly low temps if they are good and healthy.
I hope this helps you some, and I do wish you grand and easily accomplished success in your endeavors.
Regards from Texas
Rick~LtlWilli


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## Matt Beekman (Dec 15, 2007)

*Boswell*

Tom I would love to hear some of your stories about dealing with Boswell. I read the King of California; a great book. If people want to understand the Valley it is a must read. Go Dogs!


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*killing aphids with a dormant oil*

The PCA's love to sell the chemicals!
The light summer oils can cause leaf burn on young foliage at elevated temperatures and dormant oils would kill the tender growth.
The PCA could suggest a category 2 or 3 pesticide.
But, they want to show the grower quick results.
Agimek can take up to 5 days for a kill. But, the thrip/aphid stops feeding as soon as the "material" is applied.

Regards,
Ernie Lucas Apiaries


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*Wow. I'd never even heard of Boswell,*

What farmer benefited the most from the great California concrete water way? J.G.B.
What farmer in Calif. gets the big bucks for cotton subsities annualy by the millions? J.G.B.
Farming for subsidies. Would'nt my Agric. Econ Prof. like that topic for a lecture.
Do a subsidies seach and you can get the names and how much is allocated per year and the past years.
We have third generation rice growers in California that can not make a profit unless they receive subsidies.
BTW.
Ventura County growers receive $00.00 in subsidies.

Regards,
Ernie Lucas Apiaries


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## LtlWilli (Mar 11, 2008)

OK...So, now, I look foolish, but I was only trying to help...Ah, but the life of a newbie is fraught with many so many unseen shallows and reefs... It just seemed like the lesser risk , compared to several more lethal evils....Sorry to have almost mislead with my lack of being up-to-date. I will remain mute until I can give acceptable answers. Again, best of luck to you.
Thanks for the correction.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*2006 farm subsidies web site.*

http://farm.ewg.org/farm/region.php?fips=00000

TOP CALIF RECIPIANTS:
J.G.B. $10,000,000.00 95-2006
http://farm.ewg.org/farm/persondetail.php?custnumber=009439118

http://farm.ewg.org/farm/top_recips.php?fips=06000&progcode=total


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

*The Diamond B*

The land appears to be perfectly flat, bisected only by levees & ditches. All of the fields are 640 acres. No trees, buildings or landmarks of any kind. Each section of seed alfalfa takes 1188 colonies to pollinate. It was not uncommon to have 3,4,or5 contiguous fields of seed, say 3 or 4 thousand colonies within 3 miles. The colonies are spaced precisely the same in groups of 88 on N-S avenues. Surrounding the seed are cotton & safflower, both highly attractive. This is a recipe for the most massive drift you can imagine. They pile up on the ends of rows, but especially to the North and most of all to the NW corner, where they can be 8 deeps high, full of honey with bees covering the entire outside of the boxes and all over the ground. The colonies in the center are drastically depleted and pesticide applications during late July further enhance the overall effect. Sometimes you can make a lot of honey but it's like selling your soul, and there is a price to be paid.


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## TeJay (Feb 5, 2008)

We WILL be moving the hives!
The Landowner awoke this morning with a brilliant idea. He has 40 acres not too far from here and says we can move the hives there for a couple of weeks...Whoo Hoo!
So tonight we will 'lock' the girls up, ratchet the hives and muscle them into our trailer and haul them up to the old homestead. We will be going up there in a bit to scope out the area and see what water source is available (if any).

I really appreciate all the input you all shared, it means a lot to us newbees!

I'm going to miss the bees, I go stare at them several times a day, my life will be empty...~lol~...


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## TeJay (Feb 5, 2008)

Ltlwilli....Thank you so much for the step by step instructions...We are so new to this thrilling adventure called Beekeeping.


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## LtlWilli (Mar 11, 2008)

You are most certainly welcome...I am glad that I could contribute in some way. Go and do well, now.
Regards,
Rick~LtlWilli


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