# Seven days post virgin installation inspection



## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

Why didn't you just put the cells in the nucs a day or 2 before they were due to hatch? May be a dumb question, I have never tried grafting but am going to give it a go next year I think. G


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

No not a dumb question. Poor scheduling on my part due to being out of town for a family event. The event was scheduled before I grafted, but of course I had forgotten about it.

EDIT: You can bet that from now on, I'll be placing ripe cells in splits, not hatched virgins.


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

Gotcha. Maybe they will surprise you, you might get home and find some fatty's laying. I've never introduced virgins, but my mating flight success on them raising their own has been better than 80%. If they didn't kill them all, hopefully you will find something positive when you return. Then you can just recombine if you have any queenless and go again. Chalk it up to a learning experience, but like you said, You now know you can successfully graft. :thumbsup: G


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Wishing you luck, Brad!


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## RAK (May 2, 2010)

Did your virgins hatch in an incubator?


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

7 days is a little early, seeing queencells is not typically a good sign though.


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

RAK said:


> Did your virgins hatch in an incubator?


In cages in the cell finisher.


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

JRG13 said:


> 7 days is a little early, seeing *queencells is not typically a good sign* though.


I knew it was a little early but the queencells probably tell the story, or at least that's what I figured.


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

When I install virgins I wait about 30 days and then combine the failures. New queens don't do well with disturbance and you risk balling of the queen.


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## beedeetee (Nov 27, 2004)

Even with cells 10 days is too early. Some will be laying but others just haven't started yet. So other than curiosity there is nothing to be gained and at that time the young queens are running, flying and generally acting paranoid. I look at two weeks. At that time it seems that 90+% will be laying enough to easily tell which nucs to watch for another week.


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## Dubhe (Jul 19, 2007)

Brad Bee said:


> I'll be ready and waiting early next spring.


Do you have the resources & weather to give it another go this season?


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

I've got the resources but I'm running out of time. I put 6 grafts in a strong queenless nuc this morning. I will put the capped cells in queenless mating nucs. I will combine the others


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

I tried grafting for the first time year.
My first go round...getting a chosen frame laid up was no problem, grafting and getting a take no problem. Early emerging Virgin killing most of the others was a big problem. Of the ones I put in 2 frame mating Nucs about 1/3 resulted in well laying Queens that I made Nucs from. Still that is good practice and 7 Queens/Nucs I would not have had otherwise.

Next go round was a very different story. Put the empty drawn frame between brood frames in the chosen doner hive. Came back...it was filled with nectar not eggs! Tried again and same thing happened. OKnI say I will just take a frame with eggs and early larva and graft from that. I finally found an appropriate frame in the bottom deep...not much fun getting there. Graft as before only to find only 2 cells were accepted and drawn out of a dozen grafted larvae.mi think I may have become slack and used larva that were thicker than a thread! I put them in small frame mini mating Nucs and will what happens in a month.

What I have learned to date .."grafting" is so much more than moving a larva from a cell to a cup!


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## Robbin (May 26, 2013)

WBVC said:


> I tried grafting for the first time year.
> My first go round...getting a chosen frame laid up was no problem, grafting and getting a take no problem. Early emerging Virgin killing most of the others was a big problem. Of the ones I put in 2 frame mating Nucs about 1/3 resulted in well laying Queens that I made Nucs from. Still that is good practice and 7 Queens/Nucs I would not have had otherwise.
> 
> Next go round was a very different story. Put the empty drawn frame between brood frames in the chosen doner hive. Came back...it was filled with nectar not eggs! Tried again and same thing happened. OKnI say I will just take a frame with eggs and early larva and graft from that. I finally found an appropriate frame in the bottom deep...not much fun getting there. Graft as before only to find only 2 cells were accepted and drawn out of a dozen grafted larvae.mi think I may have become slack and used larva that were thicker than a thread! I put them in small frame mini mating Nucs and will what happens in a month.
> ...


I'm with you on how much more grafting is... Made my 3rd attempt this weekend, Thou I think I've broken the code this time...


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

Thanks for all the replies. I'm having to check in from my phone so I won't respond to each post but do appreciate them all. 

WBVC, put your favorite queen in a nuc. That makes finding correct age larvae very easy and she will jump on the new comb. In all my both times to graft I learned that. LOL. I'm a poor source to be giving advice on grafting setup.  Or isolate her in a cage in a 10 frame give as ive seen done on youtube.


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

Thanks...never thought of moving her to a nuc for a few days. Is she readily accepted back into her hive?

I guess it could work well if you waited 4 days or so to return her back to her hive. They have made some Queen cells that you could move and use as well.


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

I didn't move her back. I pulled her out just prior to our main flow and will keep her in a nuc from now on. The hive raised a new queen and she's doing great.


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## McCoslin (Dec 4, 2013)

Let's start a club; this is my second year as a beek, and my first year grafting. I have experienced all that you have mentioned. I have had good luck with direct release with virgins. Look up Lauri's video on how to do it. It takes a full 14 days before I see my queens laying. 7-10 days is a little early. I don't even check them until 2 weeks have gone by. So far a 100% that have been placed came back mated. But your right, grafting is the easy part. I have gone to using cages to prevent the early hatchers. Twice I have had early ones that destroy a bunch of great looking cells. Grafting and raising queens is like a giant science experiment! Keep trying!


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## Father Time (Apr 10, 2014)

If you would please post a link to Lauri's video, Thanks Edited I found it....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5dtZoiLG2c


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## Father Time (Apr 10, 2014)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhUrIAcA3eQ&index=33&list=UU7CeiCDhTAb1Ozng7_02ynw and another one.


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## McCoslin (Dec 4, 2013)

Father Time said:


> If you would please post a link to Lauri's video, Thanks Edited I found it....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5dtZoiLG2c


Just released another dozen using Lauri's method. I made up nuc's early in the morning and released the queens a couple of hours later. In all cases I pulled a frame of honey w/ some open cells of nectar. I released the queen right on top of the open cells. The queens went to eating right a way, the workers slowly notice that the queen is there. After a few minutes go by a few more workers come by and start grooming etc. No drama (seemingly !). I put the frame back in, close up the hive. I make sure they have syrup and pollen sub. Here in Ca major dearth time, horrid hot temps. I don't open the hive again for 14 days. This method seems to work out very well. I like putting in virgins as there is no guess work in wether a cell hatched etc. It works well for my small operation.


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

There are so many threads siting how running and quick yo fly virgins are. I had seen Lauri's video and at the time wondered if the direct release virgin Queens were at risk of simply flying off.

Although one one doesn't need to wonder if the QC emerged...and if one candles the QC before placement you have a better idea ...you still need to get her mated and laying .


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## McCoslin (Dec 4, 2013)

WBVC said:


> There are so many threads siting how running and quick yo fly virgins are. I had seen Lauri's video and at the time wondered if the direct release virgin Queens were at risk of simply flying off.
> 
> Although one one doesn't need to wonder if the QC emerged...and if one candles the QC before placement you have a better idea ...you still need to get her mated and laying .


So far I have not had any virgins fly off.....yet! Releasing the virgins onto open cells of nectar seems to work as the queens are more interested in eating than flying off. It would be great if all my queens hatched at the same time. I'm getting there, but still have a ways to go. This go-round 75% had hatched (couldn't be there due to job), so I had to direct release them using Lauri's method. The remaining cells (candled) were put into the nucs to hatch. As a beginner I was super grateful to find Lauri's video as I was terrified the first time my queens hatched earlier than I expected. I had read all the same posts about virgins flying off into the sunset, never to be seen again! This method has been a life saver for me and a confidence booster to say the least. I really like seeing the queens before they go into the nucs to see the end result (quality) of a lot of work. It's also taken out all the heartburn associated with having cells hatch earlier than you expect! My goal with sharing is to alleviate heartburn others might be experiencing.


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