# 8 and 10 Frame Spacers



## applefan (Feb 20, 2011)

Hi All!

Was wondering about frame spacers—all of the ones on the Brushy Mountain website are for 10-frame hives, but they have them in 7,8, and 9 frame varieties. Is it possible to use a 7 frame spacer that is typically used in a 10 frame hive for an 8 frame? :scratch:

Thanks!


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

You could probably use any of them after trimming them down to the width of an 8-frame super.


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## NasalSponge (Jul 22, 2008)

All the folks that I know that bought them hated them. They greatly limit what you can do in the hive IMO


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Most people do not wide space a brood chamber but it is common to wide space a honey super. Fatter honey combs are easier to uncap. Frame spacers make brood comb manipulaton more difficult and in my area would make for a huge amount of brace and burr comb.


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## fish_stix (May 17, 2009)

Frame spacers make a super great place for SHB to hide in. They're also a pain in the butt as it's easy to get a frame set up high so the lid doesn't close. Unless you're digitally challenged from an accident or birth defect you have ten fingers which work perfectly for spacing frames. In your brood chambers you want to push all the frames together, centered in the box, anyway.


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## indypartridge (Nov 18, 2004)

fish_stix said:


> Unless you're digitally challenged, you have ten fingers which work perfectly for spacing frames. In your brood chambers you want to push all the frames together, centered in the box, anyway.


If you're gonna put in less frames so that they draw out the honey comb further, you can save your money and eyeball it.


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## applefan (Feb 20, 2011)

NasalSponge said:


> All the folks that I know that bought them hated them. They greatly limit what you can do in the hive IMO


What do you mean they limit what you do? They seem like a useful tool.



fish_stix said:


> Frame spacers make a super great place for SHB to hide in.


How and what does using a frame spacer make it easier for SHB to hide in?

Also, how do you know how far to space if you do it _without_ the spacer tool?


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## bigeddie (Feb 19, 2008)

I use 9 frames in a 10 frame box and like them. I don't have small hive beetles so thats not a problem. Try some for yourself, then you will know if you like them. Everyone here has their own opinion of what is best. What is best for me may not be best for you. I do a lot of things different than others here do, don't mean I'm right and there wrong just means there is more than one way to skin a cat.


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## indypartridge (Nov 18, 2004)

applefan said:


> What do you mean they limit what you do? They seem like a useful tool.


Without spacers, I can use a box for whatever I want: 8, 9, 10 frames, comb honey, etc. For frames with no comb drawn, I like having 10 frames so that it's drawn out evenly. 



> Also, how do you know how far to space if you do it _without_ the spacer tool?


If you're using less than 10 frames, you've made the decision you're going to purposely violate bee space, usually because you want the honey frames drawn out further for easier uncapping. So spacing doesn't have to be perfect - you can eyeball it. For me, it's about one index finger-width between frames.


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## NasalSponge (Jul 22, 2008)

Like Indy said I start all foundation with ten frames and then once drawn go to 9 also when I am working a box I move and slide my frames all around, I would not be able to do that with frame spacers, I do not want the limitation ..to easy to just eyeball it. Just my take on them. All you can do is get some and try them in a box or two and see what you think.


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## Riskybizz (Mar 12, 2010)

I have used 9 frame metal spacers for most of our honey supers for a number of years. For really strong honey flows we even used 8 frame spacers. I have never used them in brood chambers, as I have always considered them a management tool for honey production rather than brood management. I like spacers as the drawn out comb is mostly perfect, and easy to uncap.


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## BeeMike (Mar 20, 2011)

What about using spacers in supers when starting out with just foundation. Will the bees draw out the comb evenly with, lets say a 9 frame spacer in a 10 frame super? I plan to make chuck/comb honey and would like the extra space for the bees to build out the comb. But it's my first year and I will be starting out with foundation--will this work????????:scratch:


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## Riskybizz (Mar 12, 2010)

The preferred method is to use drawn comb with frame spacers. If you use foundation to start, the extra room allows the bees to often times build burr comb and brace comb. But once the frames are drawn out with comb, and you space them out to 9 or 8 frames per box the bees will fill the cells and drawn the comb out even further. You end up with very fat honey combs that are easy to uncap and extract. As I mentioned earlier, we only use frame spacers in honey supers for strong honey flows, and don't incorporate them in the brood boxes.


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## applefan (Feb 20, 2011)

So from what I've gathered—it's not necessary to use frame spacers?


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## Riskybizz (Mar 12, 2010)

Frame spacers in the brood box no. Frame spacers in the honey supers yes. Keeps the frames in the honey supers organized and straight, with little effort. You never have to stand there while supering trying to space them out by eying.


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## Oldbee (Sep 25, 2006)

applefan said:


> So from what I've gathered—it's not necessary to use frame spacers?


From my experience with just a few hives over the years, the kind of frame spacers [9-8-7, whatever] that you actually attach/nail to the super is not neccessary. I have used the metal frame spacer with the big teeth and I kind of like it because it's pretty fast in aligning the frames,.[9 in a 10 frame box].

With a lot of hives [20-50 or more], and many supers to be removed, sometimes those honey filled frames will rub/jam against each other, break the cappings and cause a lot of unnecessary dripping of honey. If honey supers are roughly handled by part time help or are transported long distances, this adds to the problem. Sometimes, 9 frames in a 10 frame box will get off at such an angle, that they fall out or cause other problems.


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## applefan (Feb 20, 2011)

Oldbee said:


> From my experience with just a few hives over the years, the kind of frame spacers [9-8-7, whatever] that you actually attach/nail to the super is not neccessary. I have used the metal frame spacer with the big teeth and I kind of like it because it's pretty fast in aligning the frames,.[9 in a 10 frame box].


Ok, that's what I meant—the ones with the metal teeth. I'm not sure if others have been talking about the ones you nail in—that's definitely not what I was thinking of :doh:. Thanks for clearing it up—I didn't realize it was _just_ for the honey super(s). The only thing is is that Brushy Mountain only supplies a spacer tool for 10-frame hives—not 8-frame hives. I guess I won't be getting one...


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## Kazzandra (Jul 7, 2010)

I have this thing-- drove down to Brushy Mountain and bought it:
http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/Plastic-Frame-Spacer-Tool/productinfo/659/
And I have eight frame hives. So what I did was exacto knife the two end teeth and it slides well-- but of course, that's all I can say about it. Good to know not to try this with brood.


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## HONEYDEW (Mar 9, 2007)

> Is it possible to use a 7 frame spacer that is typically used in a 10 frame hive for an 8 frame?


 a 7 frame spacer IS for an 8 frame super just as a 9 frame spacer is for a 10 frame super I have never heard of 7 frames used in 10 frame equip. would only be a big mess...


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## BeeMike (Mar 20, 2011)

Riskybizz said:


> The preferred method is to use drawn comb with frame spacers. If you use foundation to start, the extra room allows the bees to often times build burr comb and brace comb.


So, being my first year, and not having drawn comb frames--do you suggest that I try to buy some drawn comb in frames (if that is possible) or just take my changes using foundation concerning the brace & burr comb?

If I do get the brace and burr comb, do I try to clean this out before the bees fill frame with honey or just what till harvest time?:scratch:


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## Riskybizz (Mar 12, 2010)

Bee Mike

There is an old saying that "patience is a virtue" and it applies well to keeping bees. My advice is not to get too far ahead of yourself. One never counts on a strong honey flow because there might not be one. Every year is different. Do yourself a favor and let the bees draw out the foundation in your boxes properly. If your using 10 frame boxes let them draw out the 10 frames so you have good comb, and good brood. Colony management takes time. You might be able to find some drawn comb to buy from another beekeeper but I would try to stay away from that at least until you really know what your buying. You will thank yourself in the long run. Once foundation is drawn out then you can experiment placing it into supers with 9 or 8 frame spacers. VERY strong hives on a strong honey flow will work these boxes ok. It used to be a matter of economics for us when we supered our yards. If we ran 8 or 9 frame boxes for honey we had extra frames of drawn comb to make up another 200 shallows for 200 more hives meaning more honey by utilizing BMP of our comb. If you are just starting out this would not be important to you. You will have much enjoyment watching your bees advance into strong colonies. You will learn as you go just by doing. It won't really matter if your using 10 frames in each box initially. Once you become more knowledgeable and your hives grow, then you can start spacing out frames for honey production if you choose, with or without metal spacers. Maintaining a proper bee space throughout your hives initially will be an important aspect of your successful operation and learning experience.


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## applefan (Feb 20, 2011)

What is brace comb / how is it different from burr comb?


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

Brace comb is usually built to add support to combs, connects two combs together, or connects combs to solid surfaces to add support, like buttresses. Burr comb usually protrudes into a gap, reducing the gap, but not completely bridging the gap - like lending assistance for bees to move from one surface to another by reducing spaces that are larger than bee space. 

Burr comb is like the various protrusions that are used to provide hand/foot holds on artificial rock climbing walls - all of these comb can also be semi-functional for brood and or honey storage, but aren't always.


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## Riskybizz (Mar 12, 2010)

Burr comb is excess comb that bees sometimes build over bad comb for whatever reason. For instance once duraguilt foundation is exposed down to the plastic core, the bees will never draw it out, but they will build over it to fill up that space. Burr comb is generally considered excess comb on the bottoms of frames (especially when a proper bee space is not maintained) Brace comb is the bees desire to attach combs together horizonally, to strengthen them. Once they do this you have to cut them apart and that can get messy.


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## Riskybizz (Mar 12, 2010)

I agree with Joseph he said it well.


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## NasalSponge (Jul 22, 2008)

OK....applefan, all my comments where concerning the nail in ones, I now understand the confusion, sorry bout that!!


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## applefan (Feb 20, 2011)

Awesome everyone thanks for the off-topic question answers!
Nasalsponge — it's fine.


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