# installing 1st pkgs in used top bar hives



## dudelt (Mar 18, 2013)

Krista, 10 bars should be just fine for starters. I would leave 1 bar empty between 2 bars with comb. I would place the queen cage there so it is not wedged between two combs and risk breaking one off. The 8 combs will be great for getting them started. I would not open up the back at all. You may get a swarm but you would probably run out of room for both groups of bees before the year was out. Do not seal up the hive. Some of the bees will need to fly to relieve themselves and you do not want it in the hive if possible.


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## ChuckReburn (Dec 17, 2013)

At install, I'd give them 4 drawn comb and I'd be inclined to leave an empty within that configuration (though I'd freeze it before hand). More than that and I see it as a challenge for a 3# package to protect - especially consider that their numbers will be dwindling for at least 3 weeks (until the first brood hatches). After their numbers begin to increase you can give them an extra boost with the drawn comb.

10 bars is adequate though a follower board isn't necessary.

1:1 is good for syrup. The best feeder I've found for TBH is a "poultry or quail water device" with a small piece of rope in the reservoir to prevent drowning. 2nd to that is a boardman feeder used INTERNALLY. 

I put my queens just under the drawn comb, they will cluster low and open the cage up.

Leave them open.

They need the space 30 combs offer, no room for 2 colonies in there


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## krista45036 (Oct 7, 2014)

thanks for the replies


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## krista45036 (Oct 7, 2014)

okay guys, i'm ba-a-ack....
i picked up my packages today, and plan to install them near dusk. the guy i got them from *insists* the hives should be closed for 2 days. the packages are about 4 days old, so i guess they would be appreciating their queen by now, and would also appreciate a cleansing flight. 

how possible is it that they'd abscond? can i just close most of the entrance? it is supposed to be chilly for a few days, so they might not want to come out anyway....

bottom line is I'm nervous :s


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## Jon Wolff (Apr 28, 2013)

Krista, you can relax. If these are hives where bees have lived before, they aren't likely to abscond. Package bees are known to abscond from new hives, but yours should feel like home to them, especially with the comb you're supplying. I'm assuming your hives have solid bottoms, not screens.


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## krista45036 (Oct 7, 2014)

thx jon! my hives have screened bottoms with a movable solid wood piece underneath. they are closed.

so i watched wyatt mangum's video again, where he goes back after 3 hours and moves the feeder under the cluster.( quail feeders with rope, thanks chuck!) I decided to use both follower boards to confine the majority of the package in the section with the queen. cages are rubber banded to gaps in an old (short) comb. i put the pollen sub on the bottom of each hive and started unpackaging.

of course, with my first package, i dropped the queen cage down in... ugh! getting that out, i got a sting on one finger. that went okay until my ball cap under the veil fell over my eyes. well, NUTS! so when i fixed that issue, 1 bee got under the veil & stung me under the chin. then i closed them up & started on the 2nd install. didnt drop the queen cage this time, but i must have started to stink..... got most of them in & felt a sting at my ankle ( should have worn the Muck boots with pants tucked in).

got these guys closed up, and headed for the house. now i feel a bee or two in my hair. okay, take off the jacket & veil, but the bees are still in my hair. went on my deck and put my head down, fluffing my hair. buzzing on my scalp..... well, the 2 in my hair are surviviors cuz i didnt get more stings. yay!

there were still bees in the boxes but i set them on the ground in from of the hives. i figure they can go in after i set the feeders and move the followers.

as of now, i have 3 stings, and have let 4 bees out of my house. COULDA BEEN WORSE!

i will go back to remove the front follower boards ( by the top entrance) and move the feeders under the clusters in a couple hours. in the meantime, i am having benadryl and a celebratory shot of Absolut.

they were really ready to be out, cuz i saw bee poop in a number of places almost immediately


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## msscha (Jan 4, 2014)

krista45036 said:


> in the meantime, i am having benadryl and a celebratory shot of Absolut.


Yep! I had a similar experience with my first package -- so nervous, immediately got stung 3 times (didn't penetrate gloves, though), but did the get the queen hung and placed the whole package inside the hive to find their way out (per seller's recommendation). Checked 3 days later, and confirmed the queen was released, removed the cage, marveled at the new comb, and they went on to become very nice bees who didn't begin to require smoking until late fall when they just about tripled in size. Now, that hive is very large, and I've got a split going from them (which is struggling with re-queening). In any case, I did pretty much the same as you -- although my preference runs to IPAs ! Welcome to top bar beekeeping!!


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## djjmc (Feb 6, 2015)

msscha said:


> Yep! I had a similar experience with my first package -- so nervous, immediately got stung 3 times (didn't penetrate gloves, though), but did the get the queen hung and placed the whole package inside the hive to find their way out (per seller's recommendation). Checked 3 days later, and confirmed the queen was released, removed the cage, marveled at the new comb, and they went on to become very nice bees who didn't begin to require smoking until late fall when they just about tripled in size. Now, that hive is very large, and I've got a split going from them (which is struggling with re-queening). In any case, I did pretty much the same as you -- although my preference runs to IPAs ! Welcome to top bar beekeeping!!


What I did: Wearing a jacket and veil. No gloves (as the queen cage is fiddly to open). No stings. Right before dark.
1- removed 3 bars from center of the hive.
2- Removed the queen cage and set aside.
3- Dumped bees in the hive.
4- Replaced all the top bars except 1.
5- Removed cork from queen cage, while keeping finger over the hole.
6- Released queen onto the middle full bar of comb.
7- Replaced the last comb.
8- Reduced top entrance to half of the hive width.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>i will install a package into each hive, but am not sure how much space to give them to get started. Is 10 bars enough before the follower?
and how many of those should be comb? 

If you have comb, give them all the comb you have. I would let them have the entire hive until they are clustered and then reduce it as much as you can up to the cluster, if you have a follower. In other words, give them just the room they are using.

>on feeding, is 1:1 sugar syrup the right thing to feed? 

It's all right. 5:3 will keep better.

>read about a baggie feeder, thinking i will use this. other suggestions?

Where will you put it? Be sure not to put it in until after the bees are settled so you don't dump the bees on top of the baggie and have all the syrup come out.

>what to do with the queen cage since there's already some comb on the bars? hang it from an empty bar? dont want wonky comb, but i am kinda chicken about just letting her out.

Since you have drawn comb, hang the cage between two of the drawn comb. If you need to staple something onto the cage (wire, strip of metal, strong string etc.) in order to hang it, then do that. If you didn't have drawn comb I would just release her to avoid the mess they will make drawing comb off of the cage.

>have been re-reading les crowder on bar management; i understand i will need to expand/adjust their space over time. his diagrams & explanations make more sense every time i read them.

Good. He has a very good explanation and good diagrams.

>currently, the end holes are duct-taped to keep out critters. do i need to keep the hives closed for a day or two after installing the bees?

I would not. Confining bees is a risky proposition.

>would it be stupid to open both ends in hopes of a feral swarm moving in to the other end? 

I don't see it as likely to help... Followers are seldom bee tight and I wouldn't want robbers to find the "back door" which might not be guarded well.


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## serconn (Apr 10, 2013)

Micheal - when placing the Queen cage of a new package between the existing comb, would you open the queen cage or let/hope the bees themselves let her out?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

If you are going to put the cage in, you pop the cork on the candy side (assuming a Benton three hole cage with candy). If you have a california cage, you'll need either one of the candy tubes they make for those or put a marshmallow in the hole after removing the cork. If you have a JZBZ cage with candy, expose the candy. If you have a JZBZ cage with no candy, put a marshmallow in the hole. The bees need to be able to chew the candy out and release her.

If it is your intent to direct release, You pull the cork on the end that will release her (with the Benton cage) or the only cork (with the california cage) or the cap (with the JZBZ cage) and if there is no candy to prevent the queen from exiting, you can lay that on the bottom and let her leave when she wants.

The point of hanging the cage is to do a candy release.


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