# COPPER NAPHTHENATE?



## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

I am looking for a subsitute for the PERM-E8 that is sold by the beekeeping mags.

I found this Copper Brown at Lowes and copper naphthenate 9.08% is in the ingrediants.

If this is the same basic thing for $12.97, that would sure beat the $150. in the mags (plus shipping)!

Am I on the right track? I have 50 boxes to start painting.


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## SilverFox (Apr 25, 2003)

Bullseye Bill; I use linseed oil on my hives two coats they seem to be holding up OK. Don't know about using Copper naphthenate other than it is used to prevent rot and bug damage.


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## mark williams (Jan 19, 2003)

Bill:I looked on the can that mine came in & it's 45.4%.copper naphthenate,
I think that what Lowes sell is not the same.Mark


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I painted my first boxes with exterior house paint 30 years ago and never repainted them. I'm still using them. There are a couple with some extra entrances in the corners now, but I can live with that.

Personally, I would not use the copper naphthenate. I don't trust it's effect on the bees or people and what is the advantage over paint? Thirty years from now will the boxes still be around? Mine are just painted and they still are.


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

>I use linseed oil on my hives two coats they seem to be holding up OK

According to the people I spoke with at the paint stores, the deck type finishes are meant to last a couple of years and then applied again.

>I looked on the can that mine came in & it's 45.4%.copper naphthenate,

Hummm, maybe if I applied about four coats...?

I found a copper SULFATE at the lawn and garden center that was 89%, but it is used to kill roots. Probably woodn't work...


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

>Personally, I would not use the copper naphthenate. I don't trust it's effect on the bees or people 

Yeah, and then there is this whole "food container" thing to think about. I have paint already, I guess I'll just do the prime and double coat of latex as always.

If it was mid summer, I would like to do the hot paraffin soak with the new boxes. Guess I still can, all I have to do is buy more boxes, eh?


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## YBCute (Oct 18, 2004)

Well, I acquired 36 deeps.18 dead colonies. They had been painted with a flat green paint ( no semi gloss ! ) They had the home depot stuff coated inside which you discribed.To stop rot. The boxes are wet. Moisture either came through the flat green and then soaked the wood or held moisture from the inside. Inside boxes felt dry but had a very oily feeling.These were 2 year old beeline boxes which are a very soft wood.Like mentioned. Stay with the basics. Linseed oil.I watched the grade of wood change over the last 30 years. What they sell now is closer to a piece of thick 7/8" paper, not wood.
My boxes from the 70's are still around and doing fine with using only good paints ( NOT FLATS )


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

>What they sell now is closer to a piece of thick 7/8" paper, not wood
WT Kelley said lumber was coming in two grades-not wide enough,and more knots.More small trees are being used for lumber nowdays,and small trees tend to produce poorer quality lumber.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Of course, my 30 year old ones I bought new in the 70's. Hardly a knot in them.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

There was an old man around Redding ,Ca. in the 70s that sawed out boxes and frames mostly from clear sugar pine.I bought hundreds of them but guess most got sold off over the years.But the odor of sugar pine in his shop was intoxicating!
Anyway I only use copper naphthenate on the outside of the bottom boards.It seems to slow the termites down a bit.


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## Lit Smoker (Jun 14, 2004)

Something to consider for those trying to decide whether to use Copper naphthenate is the odor given off while applying. I "painted" 10 deeps worth of wood on a nice breezy day (without appropriate breathing protection--dumb). The mineral spririts 6:1 was strong smelling but the wind took care of that...until I decided to put my dried wood into the garage (avoiding rain ya know!) while I took the family out for the evening. By the time we returned, the ENTIRE house was filled with the strong smell of mineral spirits. DAYS later, things were back to order, but you can bet I bought fresh flowers for my wife that week! Lesson learned is do the application far far away from home (and use an appropriate safety mask). For me, I'm never going back to that again. Can you say, "hello mistint Ace Hardware paint"?


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## YBCute (Oct 18, 2004)

After someone giving me these boxes (7/8 paper wood)I am not happy with this.Priced the wood at home depot which isn't to cheap anymore and going back to the pine I had since the 70's. Costs the same as if I bought the paperwood . This paperwood looks like it will suck moisture from the interior and rot the box.Light but way to soft. ..Its bug food!! Glad I have all these 2/10 hives still around the state and free to make since no one ever stops building homes


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## hobbyfarm (Feb 18, 2005)

Normally, I avoid using toxins around the house and garden, be they CCA, ACQ, or CNB, but I did use CCA lumber on the greenhouse foundation.

Now to paint - IF you really want to use a toxin based paint on your hives, consider marine antifouling (hull) paint. Most marine stores carry it. It comes in several varieties, usually containing copper thiocyonate or copper naphthenate. Concentrations vary from 18% to 96%! Price varies by concentration, anywhere from $35/gallon to over $200/gallon.

Kevin

(We used to sail when were on the left coast.)


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

I have used perm-e8 copper naphthnate for the past 12 yrs....no effects on the bees and I dont paint my boxes. They look like new! Here is what i do...I have a double jacketed tank which I dip them in. I mix 92% parafin and 8% copper naphthnate heated to 200 degrees and the boxes stay in the mixture for 12 hrs. Water runs off like a waxed car or duck feathers and still does 12 yrs later....no painting....ever!!! Rick


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

>I mix 92% parafin and 8% copper naphthnate 

Do you mean like 9 gallons of parafin and one gallon of Perm-E8? 

Does it really have to soak that long? That would take a big tank and a LONG time to do fifty boxes one at a time.


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## mark williams (Jan 19, 2003)

Don't know what kind of stuff I've got,But it say's on the can Copper naphthate something about organic,???.Anyway you mix it with water& it smell's like soap.Got it afew years back from a commercial beekeeper.The box's I've dip are still looking good.


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## John Seets (Jan 9, 2003)

Try Sikkens Cetol 1. It lasts and protects the wood without the poison. An added benefit is that you still see the grain of the wood. 2-3 coats recommended.

Thanx.


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## Lively Bee's (Dec 9, 2004)

Has any one tryed heating or boiling the linseed oil then soking the box's in that? Back serverl year ago we build duck box's and using a wood fire we boiled the oil and wouls soke the hole box for 5 min's.. They still look great.


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

I saw in the Mann Lake catalog a recomendation to mix parafin and gum rosin. Heat to 180 - 200 and soak around fifteen minutes. I can do that.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I always thought that sounded reasonable (the pariafin and gum rosin treatment). But I don't have a tank to do it in. I suppose if you did, it would be less work than painting. If you built it tall enough to stack three mediums up you could stack two more on end in the middle and do five at a time.

It sounds like what the bees would do to the hive. Wait, it sounds almost like what the bees DO to the inside of the hive.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

I don't like the idea of incorporating a heavy metal into the hives. This stuff leaches without a doubt. That's why it is effeective as anti-fouling paint on hulls.

I have no proof, but I think it can find its way into the honey.

Does the USDA allow the stuff in commercial kitchens? Honey houses?


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## BubbaBob (Jan 18, 2005)

I use CN...have long, wide, shallow tank...throw unassembled hive and super parts in in the evening, remove in the morning, let dry 2-3 days, then paint with whatever is the cheapest exterior white paint on sale at Ace Hardware on the day I need more paint.

BubbaBob


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

>But I don't have a tank to do it in.

An Army roasting pan should be about right for mediums. They measure 8x18x22. They are the heavy alum. pans with handles on all four sides.

I was going to bring a med home with me this weekend to double check the fit before buying a pan but forgot.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

I think like most, painting seems to be a never-ending job. We've had better luck with latex semi gloss than flat. Last twice as long, reflects sunlight and repels rain, never chalks. I like the parafin/napthanate concept but what kind of rig are you heating it on?


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Many cities have drop off sites for hazardous material such as paints and insecticides. You can wander in and pick out any paint you want for free. Most are 1/2 full or more. Every time I go in there I am amazed at the quality and selection. Got 5 gallons of roofing tar the last time. 

"One man's garbage is anothers treasure.........."


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