# whats the best bee for a newbie?



## COUNT ZERO (Apr 8, 2005)

Get any bee you can. You won't regret it. If you don't like something about them you can just requeen. This is only my first year so I am only familiar with two strains but believe me- you won't care what kind of bees you have at first.

Brian


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## Neubee (Mar 23, 2005)

Are your winters long or cold? Carniolans are good for long winters because they conserve food stores. Russians are supposed to be frugal also. I 've been keeping carnis and I'm very pleased with them so far. But like Count Zero said you will have alot of fun with any bee.

APK


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

I agree with APK and Carnolian is what I have started out with. 

So far very gentle......


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## Dan Williamson (Apr 6, 2004)

I'd say Michigan is a good place for Carnolian. 

For the beginners who are somewhat scared of bees I like the Carnolian. I had one Carni hive last year and now have 4 Carni hives with 6 Carnolian queens due in this week for splits. They are extremely gentle to work even when the hives get big. 
Most of my experience has been with Italians and I like them but I'm sold on the Carnolian.

Dan


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## onebigchaos (May 20, 2005)

hey guys thanks for the quick reply's i am also looking for people to hang with to learn more about them............. also our winters are always long and cold so i need somethign that is hearty so i think i will try the carni now my other question is does anyone know where i can get these bee's? i have looked all over and no one has them anymore should i wait for next year to get bee's? or what


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## peggjam (Mar 4, 2005)

I wouldn't wait, but at the same time don't set your heart on anyone breed. You need to get your feet wet and Italians are as good as any. I am currently running Italians and Buckfasts. I have found the Buckfasts to bee a very gentle bee, with good honey production. Although the queens can be a bit bullheaded about things. (See asconding in beekeeping 101). You need to buy at least two swarms, and if I were you I would try to locate nucs as they are easier to get started than packages, and are about equal in price. You need two swarms so you can compare and contrast the quailites of each, it will also give you an idea that somethings wrong if one isn't doing as well as the other. You could buy one nuc of each strain you are interested in, and might beable to find a local beekeeper that would sell you a nuc. If you can't find any PM me and we'll figure something out. Good luck.

peggjam


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## magnet-man (Jul 10, 2004)

> I have found the Buckfasts to bee a very gentle bee, with good honey production.


The Buckfast do produce well, but I strongly disagree with them being gentle. I would advise any new beekeeper to stay clear of them and this is especially true if they are going to be in your backyard. They are the most aggressive commercial bee I have worked with. 

I do like the Carnolian and they tend to swarm. Swarming can be good or bad depending upon the time of year and your views.


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## ChellesBees (Apr 1, 2003)

Carniolians or Italians, the biggest thing is what is available and what is least expensive. Especially for the first year. Try to find a couple nucs, definitly get at least two to start with.


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## Butterchurn (Jan 13, 2005)

I bought some NUCS once from B&B and I got a load of chalkbrood that I never got rid of. I had new equipment and no disease. The NUCS changed all of that the chalkbrood was outrageous.

I've stuck with packages ever since.

I love the Carnis, very good bee, gentle and overwinter very well. I like Italians, too. Your preference.

Ron


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## jalal (Sep 2, 2004)

No better time than today!

I'd suggest of course either an Italian or a Carniolan.

Proven breeds!


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## ChellesBees (Apr 1, 2003)

I also wouldn't usually suggest nucs for a beginner, but packages are probably done now 'till next year. Chalkbrood can usually be taken care of, but other diseases can also be an issue with nucs. I would not put them in a yard with my other hives until I knew they were clean.


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## esatula (Jan 13, 2005)

Does anyone know who ships packages of NWC to the CT? I have found people who ship queens but not packages. Sorry for the hyjack.


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## Lew Best (Jan 8, 2005)

Just curious; I see Carniolans mentioned & NWC (New World Carniolans)also. Are these the same? If not what is the difference? I know the nwc is what Sue Cobey works with but little more (other than hearing high recommendations).

Lew


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## peggjam (Mar 4, 2005)

Magnet-man:

I have not had that kind of experiance with my Buckfast bees. They have been the gentlest bees I have ever worked with. I have both Italians and Buckfasts and the Italians are far more aggresive than my Buckfasts. I bought from two different sources, so maybe you had a cross or something.

peggjam


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## COUNT ZERO (Apr 8, 2005)

I also agree with Peggjam, absolutely start with at least two colonies. I started with two on the advice of me bee club but four would have been much smarter. If you can get two swarms you might be able to split them this year.

Brian


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

Here in Central Maine where the weather can be ah... lousy and the winters ah.... long, the most prevalent bees by far are Carniolan though I've met one person so far with Buckfast bees and they're happy. The Carniolans are definitely more winter-hardy from everything I've heard about them. The main complaint, if you have to complain about something, is their tendancy to swarm. However, I see swarming as an opportunity to make increase, a reason to celebrate, not a reason to complain about lost honey surplus. I'm still pretty new at this, but my attitude is more bees mean more fun.

As for the number of hives to start with, definitely try to get at least 2 going, more if you can swing it.. you need something to compare against. I for one planned to start out with 3 and built a platform in anticipation, capable of holding 5 hives. Sure enough, soon the starting number soon became 5 (nature abhors a vacuum and partially filled hive platforms). I've got 3 hives so far, and will be picking up 3 more NUCs the end of this week... 3 more? Hum... that's 6! Guess I need another hive platform... better build it bigger this time...

George-


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>The Buckfast do produce well, but I strongly disagree with them being gentle. I would advise any new beekeeper to stay clear of them and this is especially true if they are going to be in your backyard. They are the most aggressive commercial bee I have worked with. 

Well from 1974 to 2001 I thought Buckfasts were the most gentle and productive bees I'd ever worked with. But that all changed in 2001. I haven't dared to try any again since.


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

Start with two hives of any type you can get, (nucs or swarms or full hives), order two NWC queens, and stay the **** away from Buckfasts.


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## onebigchaos (May 20, 2005)

lol thanks guys this is great does anyone have plans on how to build a hive? or should it just be from a store because of the money reason but thanks guys for everything this has been great i hope to hear more from people


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## COUNT ZERO (Apr 8, 2005)

There are plans right on this site. From a start-up cost standpoint, take a look at the top bar hive. I don't have one but I can't wait to build one.
-Brian


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

http://www.beesource.com/plans/10frlang.pdf

If you go with a Langstroth hive, I'd do all mediums. It will simplify your life and be easier on your back.

http://www.bushfarms.com/bees.htm

I have pictures of me building a KTBH and some pictures of a long Langstroth medium with top bars in it.


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## onebigchaos (May 20, 2005)

can someone explain to me what a top bar hive is and what is diff about those from langstroth hives?


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## Lew Best (Jan 8, 2005)

Hi all

this seems to have gotten lost in the shuffle so I'll try again.

Just curious; I see Carniolans mentioned & NWC (New World Carniolans)also. Are these the same? If not what is the difference? I know the nwc is what Sue Cobey works with but little more (other than hearing high recommendations).

Lew


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## Pugs (Jul 15, 2004)

Lew,

I'm new at this, but from everything I've read the NWC are a selection by Sue Cobey. She as been selecting for years for carniolan like behavior in her bees. I don't think she claims they are carniolans. I'm not sure if she even cares what kind of bee they are. She is going for results.

Now, everyone and their brother/sister can correct me!

Pugs


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## magnet-man (Jul 10, 2004)

Texas is almost all AHB territory. Now where do those Buckfast come from? Do they come from Buckfast Abbey in Devon, England?


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## Lew Best (Jan 8, 2005)

Ic; Thanks Pugs!

Lew


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

>Just curious; I see Carniolans mentioned & NWC (New World Carniolans)also. Are these the same? If not what is the difference? I know the nwc is what Sue Cobey works with but little more (other than hearing high recommendations).

Have you been to the web site?

http://www174.pair.com/birdland/Breeding/


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## Lew Best (Jan 8, 2005)

Thanx Bill

Great; answers lots of questions!

Lew


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## magnet-man (Jul 10, 2004)

> so maybe you had a cross or something.


My queens came directly from a well known breeder in Texas. Peggjam when was the last time you recevied queens from a Texas breeder?


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## peggjam (Mar 4, 2005)

Considering that all of my Buckfasts came from R. Weaver in Texas, and I have not had any problems with hot hives, maybe YOU recieved a cross. Or maybe mine have not gone postal yet. But if I remember MB's statement about his Buckfast's correctly, he didn't have a problem with them either until he crossed them with feral swarms. All I am saying is I have not had any problems with my Buckfast hives. It's not really that big of a deal to get upset about. Everybody has different oppinions on what an aggressive bee is, I used to work some of the native bees my greatgrand mother had, and they were VERY hot. My Buckfasts so far have been calmer to work with than my Italians. If they get too hot I'll requeen them, but by it's self, I do not choose to requeen a hive just because it is hot. There also needs to be other factors present such as poor laying ability, or poor honey production for me to requeen. As long as beekeepers continue to buy queens from AHB infested areas there will always be a chance of getting AHB genitics, wether it be Buckfast, Italians or whatever. Just my thoughts.

peggjam


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>But if I remember MB's statement about his Buckfast's correctly, he didn't have a problem with them either until he crossed them with feral swarms. All I am saying is I have not had any problems with my Buckfast hives.

I didn't cross them with anything. They swarmed (all four Buckfast hives I had at the time) in the middle of a drought (which I've never seen before) and all four hives went postal immedeatly afterwards, simultaneously.

But until then I had never had any hot Buckfasts.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

They probably DID cross with the local bees, but they did so without my intent and under suspicious circumstances.


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## oldgreyone (Apr 30, 2005)

The site below will give you all the info you need on the NWC program. Sounds fascinating but the prices are out of my league.

http://www174.pair.com/birdland/Breeding/NWC.html


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>can someone explain to me what a top bar hive is and what is diff about those from langstroth hives?

http://www2.gsu.edu/~biojdsx/main.htm


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## RBar (Jun 22, 2005)

Where are some good sources for Carniolans?


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## teen-bee (Jan 15, 2005)

hi michael, I prefer italian queens. i'm from the tropics (philippines) and got a new italian queen from australia. They gathered honey well during the season but then they never sealed it up. I guesse the honey were ripe enough because they dont drip when I shake the combs. I got one brood chamber & suppered with with 10-frames in them. all standard langstroth hive.enough bees covers the top bar of the supper when i opened it. flowers here from tress dont blossom at the same time... any advise how i can make my gurls seal up the honey they've collected???? thanks for any advice....


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## Phoenix (May 26, 2004)

> They gathered honey well during the season but then they never sealed it up.


They won't cap it until it is cured down to 18% moisture content. There may not have been enough moisture for it to be shaken out of the comb, but the bees knew there was still too much moisture for it to be fully cured.


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