# Shb



## mrqb (Jul 17, 2011)

I think the agent your searching for is boric acid,I definately wouldn't use no POISON in my hives,I gotta ask are you keeping bees or doing experiments


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

Boric acid is poisonous also.Wintergreen oil is also poisonous so would you use that poison to kill mites and call it non chemical management?MAQS?What about them? Poison also!!! I am just asking if anyone has used one poison other than another.


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## johnblagg (May 15, 2011)

the ant poison is fipronil probably also found in raid maxforce gel ..they are using this in Austrailia as a approved control measure in special traps see the post shb trap new thing in Australia


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

I was just looking at the Terro site and they are using borax also.My ants love Terro but they dont like my syrup with borax.Well there is probably a big difference in mine and their mixtures.


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## mrqb (Jul 17, 2011)

snapper my reply was not meant to affend you i was just asking if you were trying to see what works and what doesn't ,I said boric acid because i know people use corrugated sign material with boric acid in it and crisco outside to hold it in.I use the traps on the top bars with veggie oil in them good luck


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

No offense to me at all!!! I am sorry if it even sounded that way!!!! My foot gets in my mouth sometimes by mistake!!! I think that is why I always have a bad taste in my mouth so I guess I better wash my feet more often!!!!


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## fish_stix (May 17, 2009)

snapper; in the Pluta videos he's using the MaxForce gel (Fipronil) in the SHB traps. It's roach bait not ant poison. It works and the beetles rarely exit the traps, they stay inside, dead! Bees can't get to the bait due to the design of the Beetle Barn traps and there are no fumes or residue to worry about. In fact, the MaxForce gel is approved for use in food prep areas due to the absence of residue and fumes. If you decide to use the Beetle Barns you must check them often, every 3-4 weeks because the bees propolize the openings just like they propolize everything else. Others have tried the borax in the Beetle Barns but I don't know about the effectiveness. Don't use Terro in the hives, it's liquid and may leak out of the traps.


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

I was wondering if using the Terro in the mixture would be better than borax but I have found that Terro has borax in it as the active ingredient.Using borax in my mixture I can see they have been eating it and I find no beetles in the hive but I like seeing them dead instead of hoping they are dead.I have hives at other locations that keep the beetles out and probably my best bet is to requeen these two swarms I caught with queens from those hives.


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

The ingredient you are seeking is indeed fipronil... not suggesting to use it, nor would I say that it is a bad idea... sure do not want another beesource war on our hands. Lol... just going to give a little info from the studies... 

Stay away from the formulations that are intended for ant control, as they are also intended to attract ants, and not as effective at attracting shb...

Fipronil is the active ingredient in many roach control products with brands such as Combat gel, MaxForce gel, etc... these products are formulated to attract roaches, not ants, hint, hint... 

IF these products were to be used in a bee hive, they would ONLY be safe if they were placed inside of traps that would keep the bees from ever reaching the product... ALSO, they would have to be placed in such a way as to be certain that rain water and condensation can not get to the product and then travel to the bees...

Lastly, shb are attracted first by pollen... the smell is louder and thus it identifies colonies more easily... once a colony is being slimed, the slime ferments the pollen and honey within the hive, at this point the smell is very loud and it acts as a red flag alerting beetles from miles away to come to that spot to lay their eggs safely... so although honey and pollen attract shb, fermented honey and pollen attract them far better... hint hint...

Hope this helps! Kill a few for me!


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

snapper1d said:


> Using borax in my mixture I can see they have been eating it and I find no beetles in the hive


This is where you Really need to be careful... its very important that a control compound of any sort be effective enough to kill instantly... this is why the industry standards are usually set at 99.9%... those that do not die, may produce offspring that are resistant... and those that do not die in the traps, can carry the compound out of the traps with them... into your hives... fipronil is very effective, boric can be, but it takes far more ingested boric to kill shb... smaller doses can make them sick, or even sterile, but Dead is what you really want...


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## guyross (Feb 18, 2011)

I think JP uses max force roach bait. Look at the video at the syringe he uses.


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

rrussell6870 said:


> This is where you Really need to be careful... its very important that a control compound of any sort be effective enough to kill instantly... this is why the industry standards are usually set at 99.9%... those that do not die, may produce offspring that are resistant... and those that do not die in the traps, can carry the compound out of the traps with them... into your hives... fipronil is very effective, boric can be, but it takes far more ingested boric to kill shb... smaller doses can make them sick, or even sterile, but Dead is what you really want...


You are right and thats what I am looking for!!!!


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## guyross (Feb 18, 2011)

Sorry Combat is the product with fipronil.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

hmmmmm. worth knowing.


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## rweakley (Jul 2, 2004)

That's why so far my treatment method has been smashing them. They can't breed to be resistant to my hive tool.  But seriously I use the borax and sugar mixed with some water in my house to kill the ants and it's pretty effective. I just HATE the idea of putting roach gel anywhere near my hivem, but I might change my tune once my first gets slimed. So far it's just been a few beetles here and there.


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## johnblagg (May 15, 2011)

Raid max force does as well


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## saltcreep (Apr 25, 2011)

Tried the Beetle barns with the fipronil. It does kill a lot of beetles, but even with 2 of those the numbers of beetles were continuing to increase in this height of shb season. I would see 40-100 beetles in a hive, all on the bottom edges.

I added a screened bottom board with a pan of cooking oil below it (pan was just an aluminum drip pan from wal-mart) .... Now THAT got rid of the beetles. I found maybe 2-3 beetles per hive after adding the screened bottom and oil after inspecting it 1 week later.

In my case the beetles were almost always on the bottom along the sides... I knew if I made it so they would fall through the bottom and into the oil that would do the trick.

I basically made a box without a top and stapled the 1/8" screen wire to it, and then added a shim for bee-space on top of that and set my hive on it. I will probably make or order something that looks nicer, but I'm satisfied that the beetles are not going to run the bees off now.


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## guyross (Feb 18, 2011)

I hope you get all them suckers. If it saw that many it would be war. The most I have seen running is six or seven and that's too many. And hello neighbor.


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## saltcreep (Apr 25, 2011)

Hey another Bama'er! War Eagle! 

I'm real new at this, I just started in May, so I for the most part I do not know much of anything... but wanted to mention something else... 
I've heard a lot of people talking about treating the ground around the hives for beetles.

My hives are in the middle of a concrete pad... maybe 20x40 in size... They definitely are not coming up from the soil there. I have seen them fly in from the woods (My hives are close to a bit of corpse of woods). I don't know if that helps any or not, but thought I'd mention it.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

Having read and read and read everything on beesource on shb, and having found 4 drowned beetles in the hive I lost (when I soaked the plastic frames they surfaced), I ordered a pricey piece of woodenware today from Dadant. 

I couldn't find a regular sized screened bottom board in their catalog, and had about enough time to build my top vent. The "Country Rubes Combo Bottom Board" looks pretty interesting, both for mite counts and for shb drop through.. Looks like 1/8th inch hardware cloth screen, I even bought the observation board for the darned thing, for mite counts. I hope it's worth the $42.50. If it works out I can build another probably. Maybe in place of the observation board I can slip a cookie sheet with cooking oil in it. I'm a newbie.


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## johnblagg (May 15, 2011)

I just bought a couple of the beetle blasters to try out...but Im seriously thinking a freeman trap under the ssb is a great plan


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## guyross (Feb 18, 2011)

saltcreep said:


> Hey another Bama'er! War Eagle!
> 
> I'm real new at this, I just started in May, so I for the most part I do not know much of anything... but wanted to mention something else...
> I've heard a lot of people talking about treating the ground around the hives for beetles.
> ...


 Im new too. This is my first season.


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## johnblagg (May 15, 2011)

They say the larva can crawl a long long way to get to the soil to compleate their life cycle and you need to drench it with gaurdstar to kill them


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## saltcreep (Apr 25, 2011)

Gypsi: I do not know about this company, I have never ordered from them... But this looks like a good deal to me, probably what I will order.

http://greenbeehives.com/ipk-small-hive-beetle-trap-assembled-unpainted.html


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## saltcreep (Apr 25, 2011)

johnblagg said:


> They say the larva can crawl a long long way to get to the soil to compleate their life cycle and you need to drench it with gaurdstar to kill them


For some reason I was thinking of the adult beetles being in the soil and it didn't make sense, but you're saying this would be to kill Larva that would emerge from the hive, that makes a lot more sense now. I wish I could do something to treat the woods


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## StevenG (Mar 27, 2009)

The reality of it is, if you have to treat the ground, you're too late. You've got to trap/kill/eradicate the beetles in the hive before the larvae/worms drop to the ground to pupate. The good news is, Kelley's "Beetle Jail" works, and is cheaper than AJ's Beetle Eater. I have put from 2-4 various traps inside the hives, and they're cost effective. Even if you think you don't have a problem, put the traps in, because you might lose a hive otherwise. 

Remember, your hive is already compromised by the time the beetle worms think about going to the ground near the hive. Save your money re: Gardstar, and invest in some sort of trap mechanism. Of course, if you're in the deep South, you may need to Gardstar the ground, but most of us don't have that serious an infestation.

Also I've discovered, in the placement of my apiaries, that those in full sun have less trouble with the shb than do those in shade or even partial sun/shade.
Regards,
Steven


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

saltcreep said:


> Gypsi: I do not know about this company, I have never ordered from them... But this looks like a good deal to me, probably what I will order.
> 
> http://greenbeehives.com/ipk-small-hive-beetle-trap-assembled-unpainted.html


Well, done is done, my $42 sbb with all the bells and whistles is on its way. I will probably build the next one. And for sheet metal, fairly thin, I've got a stack of it. I have ordered from Dadant before, my hive suit and a super, and they came promptly, no hassles, and ships from about 150 miles from me so fast transit time. Thank you though. Dadant doesn't have a fancy website, and this item isn't on it so I can't send a pic without scanning their catalog. It is mainly intended for mites, but my intent in purchasing it was to learn how to control mites and beetles without pesticides. Somehow or another, I'll manage.


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## Fl_Beak (May 9, 2010)

Way back there was a posted concern about ants= we've sprinkled powdered cinnamon around the hive, and this seems to discourage the ants very well. Of course every time it rains, you would have to reapply the dust. 

*Do use caution:* I did not know I was allergic, sort of, to cinnamon until I applied it on a hot day. I was sweaty, got some dust on me, and had a red rash for a few days- typically I don't have any skin reactions, so those with high sensitivity should be careful.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

could just stack the hive on cinnamon sticks. Personally I went with pvc stilts in olive oil dishes, but all that could change soon. My fancy SBB just came. Something tells me my ant system will need redesigned.


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## max2 (Dec 24, 2009)

If are interested in reading yet more about SHB...here are a couple of good articles:comparison of some traps
http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/as...0240/small-hive-beetle-management-options.pdf and here:http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/as...e-control-device-using-diatomaceous-earth.pdf and and excellent one if you still have a problem with identification http://www.pir.sa.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0015/41262/apiary_shb_fact_sheet_2006.pdf


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## max2 (Dec 24, 2009)

"Tried the Beetle barns with the fipronil." try Diatomatious Earth - it works well too.


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