# Acres per hive



## NAVET

I have a Missouri Department of Conservation agent coming out to look at my land and offer advice in regards to clearing the brush/weeds out and replacing it with meadow plants and wildflowers. It works out to be about 2-3 acres that I'll be able to change to meadow area. I am curious about how many acres it takes to support a hive. I am sure it would depend on flowers and flower concentration but I am thinking in generalities right now.


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## frustrateddrone

I went to a first year beekeepers educational expo this spring here in Texas. I attended the planting for bees class. This was the reality that hit home. This lady lives in the Dallas Texas area. She and her husband have 9 acres of land. She planted wildflowers for drought and more native conditions.
It took years to do the transformation. It went from her neighbors hating her weed looking land to being an attraction. She's the state of Texas go to person when it comes to planting for bees. 
This is the reality. It hit home and was pretty much a shocker. She sends her honey off each year to get the pollen analyzed at Texas A/M. She's done this for like the past 5 years. Less then 1 percent of what she plants on her land of 9 acres shows up on her honey. SHOCKER! So when you think your planting for your bees...... Probably not going to impact your bees. Just want to say that she's the State of Texas person to refer to when it comes to plants and bees. 
If you want to test what your bees have for availability of flowers/pollen/nectar then send it off to a lab to get the honey tested each year. The interesting thing was you could see the droughts and you could see the rain impacts. Super KOOL in my opinion. Plant those things that are 10% or more is my thoughts.


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## Harley Craig

considering they forage over 18,000 acres on a daily basis I think it's a moot point.


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## NAVET

18,000?! I guess my paltry 2-3 isn't even a drop in the bucket.
What I do know is I haven't seen hardly any bees around my property. I saw what I would think isn't hardly any on my garden and hardly any of what flowers/flowering plants we do have. That's a scary thought.
Thanks.


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## jbraun

Those brush/weeds are wild flowers. If you want to keep it meadow you need to remove the trees on a regular basis or it reverts to the forest from where it came from.

I'm in a small town east of you that is rapidly decomposing. The farmers here HATE to see weeds/wildflowers fill in on empty lots in my small town. I see it as lots of forage for my bees but then I don't rely on ag for my living.


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## enjambres

Turning brushy re-growth into a field of wild flowers is to really mess with Nature's long-term plans for the area. Both are transitional states and only will remain that way if kept continually, and relentlessly, re-established by humans. Brushy areas aren't necessarily worse for bees than the human-centric idea of a "meadow of wildflowers".

It will take a surprising amount (and repeated bouts) of effort (and money and gasoline to run machinery) trying to convert something into somthing it is not. Let Mother Nature do the work, on her own timetable and with the plants that will thrive on the site. You might content yourself with getting to know the plants on your land, and if necessary removing the non-natives or invasive species. But keep in mind that honey bees are also exotic species in the US and they really do well on some plants which are both exotic and invasive (purple loosestrife and Japanese knotweed are two in my area that I consider environmental enemies, even though they are good nectar and pollen sources.) 

There are also a whole host of native pollinators that don't live in hives, and don't make a valuable product that humans crave and that aren't the current darlings in our society which are desperately in need of help. Their biggest threat is conversion of wild areas (in all stages of successional growth) to plant communties and uses that humans favor, i.e. a pretty meadow of wildflowers vs. a couple of ragged-looking acres of puckerbrush. The Xerces Society is dedicated to protecting pollinators; you might find useful info on their website.

As much as I adore my bugs, I recognize that having a lot of them on my farm reduces the forage opportunities for other, native pollinators. But even my large farm is only a drop of nectar in the honey cell of the sources my bees use (including on thousands of acres of unkempt looking, non-managed plants.) 

Bees forage outward up to two miles from their hive to locate preferred forage in sufficient quantity to make it worth the trip. A mile is 5280 feet, and an acre is 204 X 204 ft. If you do the math you will be astounded at how many acres the bees would consider their home turf.

Enj.


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## Biermann

Hello NAVET,

I guess I look at it a little different:

a) we are not bees and don't know 100% what makes them tick and how.
b) if the feeding area is, say 2 miles radius, that means about 8000 acres (theoretical) the bees could feed on, so who to say were they feed, they are clever little fellows and (I believe) are more sustainable driven then fancy driven. Meaning, if you plant one acre of a plant you feel is the bees 'super food' they may go to the 500 acres they know is good and around for a long period.
If they use 3 miles, it is 18000 acres, so a large area with lots of potentially attractive harvest, depending on your area, rain fall, vegetation etc.

I have one hive and it is the only hive in 2 miles, but I see my bees flying to the same patch every morning for the past three or four weeks, 30acres of clover that is flowering like mad.

All the best and bee happy, Joerg

Edith: enjambres beat me to the punchline


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## DirtyLittleSecret

Actually, it's more like ~3-5 mile radius depending on seasonal flows and need. They hit up more fast food joints than I do.


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## Biermann

Well, on 5 that would be 50000 some acres, but if I read that the live expectancy of a forager bee is 500 mile/live, than it becomes obvious that: the closer - the more!

Bee crazy, Joerg


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## Phesic

I was told this when I started beekeeping. I thought a few flower patches would really attract the bees when in reality I would need acres. It is interesting that they seem to have flowers that they seem to focus on during different times of the year. Sage seems to be one of their favorites.

frustrateddrone how did you find where to send the honey for it to be analyzed and how much did it cost?


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## Harley Craig

Phesic said:


> I was told this when I started beekeeping. I thought a few flower patches would really attract the bees when in reality I would need acres. It is interesting that they seem to have flowers that they seem to focus on during different times of the year. Sage seems to be one of their favorites.
> 
> frustrateddrone how did you find where to send the honey for it to be analyzed and how much did it cost?



They do attract bees..........just not too many honey bees, but if you look all sorts of pollinators are on them. I plant pollinator flowers all over my property that never get touched by the honey bees but the native pollinators adore them. I know of 2 huge bumble bee nests within 80 ft of my house.


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## NAVET

Am I better off leaving it as it is and just tossing out flower seeds and letting nature run it's course? I am sure there is forage for them as they are much more adept and "seeing" it than I but if I drive around my area I don't see much. Most of it is woods or grazing fields for cattle.


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## my2cents

This may help. Note Bee Bee trees, blue thistle, Chinese Tallow, Clovers and a few others. Look for the ones that provide the most honey production per plant.
http://honeybeenet.gsfc.nasa.gov/Honeybees/ForageRegion.php?StReg=FL_12
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_American_nectar_sources_for_honey_bees

Blue thistle - major 300 - 1,000 pounds honey/acre depending on soil. 500-2000 lbs of dark blue pollen. - feral In California, spring blooming plant with repeat bloom. Fall bloom provides nectar for bees for overwintering. The most unusual feature of Echium vulgare is the protection of the nectar inside the flower from vaporization (when it’s hot) or flushing away (when it rains). It is why almost for 2 months this plant is a stable source of nectar for bees. Additionally this plant produces nectar throughout the day unlike most plants which produce nectar for a short period of time. If the bees have a good access to Echium they can collect between 12-20 lbs of nectar a day. The concentration of sugars in the nectar vary 22.6-48.3% depending on the quality of the soil, and not on the amount of rain. The honey is light amber in color and very fragrant with a pleasant taste, and does not crystallize for 9–15 months


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## Harley Craig

if you have 2-3 acres to plant I would get a clover mix white dutch , yellow sweet , hubaum sweet , and throw in a pound or 2 of native wild flowers


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## my2cents

Harley Craig said:


> if you have 2-3 acres to plant I would get a clover mix white dutch , yellow sweet , hubaum sweet , and throw in a pound or 2 of native wild flowers


I believe Bees need more resources than just ground cover. And they need variety that blooms at different times of the year. Example, early spring, bees in my area start on red maple, then move to various wild flowers, but when the oak trees begin to pollenate, I often look for swarms, as the bees are so busy on the oak pollen, it sounds like each tree has a swarm. So, I am adding Bee Bee Trees to my acreage along with clover, blue thistle, and the Chinese Tallow is abundant in my area.
Today, as I was watching bees return to the hive, I noticed about 3-4 different colors of pollen coming in, some white, shades of yellow and some orange. If they didn't need variety, they would have had one kind one color of pollen. Look at the chart and pick some varieties based upon the seasoning, bloom dates, and the amount of source they provide.
In saying all of this, the bees fly and forage in a 1.5 - 2 mile radius to collect and forage for resources.


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## Harley Craig

my2cents said:


> I believe Bees need more resources than just ground cover. And they need variety that blooms at different times of the year. Example, early spring, bees in my area start on red maple, then move to various wild flowers, but when the oak trees begin to pollenate, I often look for swarms, as the bees are so busy on the oak pollen, it sounds like each tree has a swarm. So, I am adding Bee Bee Trees to my acreage along with clover, blue thistle, and the Chinese Tallow is abundant in my area.
> Today, as I was watching bees return to the hive, I noticed about 3-4 different colors of pollen coming in, some white, shades of yellow and some orange. If they didn't need variety, they would have had one kind one color of pollen. Look at the chart and pick some varieties based upon the seasoning, bloom dates, and the amount of source they provide.
> In saying all of this, the bees fly and forage in a 1.5 - 2 mile radius to collect and forage for resources.



that is great if you have the acreage to provide adequate quantities of each variety with only 2-3 acres you would never get enough of each one to even interest them unless it's a complete dearth elsewhere.


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## my2cents

Really? Look around the current meadows. There is not a single meadow that has soley clovers in it.
I am planting Bee Bee trees around the perimeter and variety in the middle of 5 acres now. About 1.5 is pasture that my other animals forage on and share with the bees. Not all of your bees are going to stay on 2 - 3 acres regardless. But, al in all I would plant blue Thistle, which I am adding, to the variety.


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## Harley Craig

who said anything about soley clover? APARENTLY you missed the part where I said throw in a few pounds of native wildflower seeds. Sheesh if you are going to try argue with someone don't try proving the same point as them


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## Nu Bee

Phesic, 
Contact Texas A&M's Honey Bee Lab: 
TAMU 2475 • College Station, Texas 77843-2475 • (979) 979-845-1074 • Fax: (979) 845-6305 • email: [email protected]

The last I heard, it was about $60 to have honey analysed. 
Em


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## TWall

A mix of clovers that bloom at different times of the year can add foraging plants for yor bees. Not all clover species are utilized by honeybees. You may also want to add some trees and bushes that provide nectar and pollen. Willows and maples are good early season pollen sources. There are a number of nectar producing trees. Basswood/linden produces very nice light honey. There is black locust, tulip poplar,etc. also. Bee bee flowers later in the summer and honeybees love it.

One of the things you need to do to provide good foarging is having a large planting. An acre or two of sweet clover will be will provide lots of nectar for your honeybees and it will reseed itself.

Tom


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## Tim KS

An acre is 43,560 sq. feet......not to knit-pick Enj. but that's about 209' X 209' give or take some inches. If bees forage 2 miles in each direction, that gives them a bit over 10,000 acres @ 640 acres per sq. mile. 

Just because they can forage that far doesn't mean they do. Why go two miles when all they need is a mile to find what they need?!


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## NAVET

If I am hearing you all correctly; My paltry 2-3 acres of meadows with flowers isn't going to be enough. If I try to clear it and make it something other than what nature created, it'll cost a load of energy, time, and money. I'm better off letting it be what nature wants and add some wild flowers that will survive in what is already in place. Then add some shrubs and trees to bolster the flowers throughout the rest of the yard. True?

I don't think I can possibly plant enough of anything on 2-3 acres to fully support a hive or two unless all 2-3 acres is one plant only that would bloom at one specific period of time. I say that meaning; Bees need a variety of pollen and nectar sources that bloom 7-8 months of the year. My goal is to do what I can with what I have to help them. Planting clover, while the "best" option, may not be the easiest, cheapest or the wisest.


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## clyderoad

NAVET said:


> If I am hearing you all correctly; My paltry 2-3 acres of meadows with flowers isn't going to be enough. If I try to clear it and make it something other than what nature created, it'll cost a load of energy, time, and money. I'm better off letting it be what nature wants and add some wild flowers that will survive in what is already in place. Then add some shrubs and trees to bolster the flowers throughout the rest of the yard. True?
> 
> I don't think I can possibly plant enough of anything on 2-3 acres to fully support a hive or two unless all 2-3 acres is one plant only that would bloom at one specific period of time. I say that meaning; Bees need a variety of pollen and nectar sources that bloom 7-8 months of the year. My goal is to do what I can with what I have to help them. Planting clover, while the "best" option, may not be the easiest, cheapest or the wisest.


But you can plant enough that starts to make a difference.
Every little bit helps. We, individually, may not be able to plant enough over a wide enough area to support a few hives but any forage planted for bees is helpful. If a few others did it too, it is that much more helpful.
There are many who advocate for letting the roadsides finish blooming before the highway dept. cuts it, or letting the ditches flower, or would really like it if the local farmer would let the fields flower before he cuts it. Some complain of monoculture and remember the days of wide and strong hedgerows or field boundaries. Supply some variety if you can.
Recently there is much discussion regarding quality forage for bees and the effects the lack of good forage is having on bee health. The need exists for more good bee forage and if you can create some it will be beneficial. I don't think it's a waste of time or the resources ($$) you're able to give it.
Whatever you do, please don't pave anymore of paradise and put up another parking lot.
MTCW


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## frustrateddrone

DirtyLittleSecret said:


> Actually, it's more like ~3-5 mile radius depending on seasonal flows and need. They hit up more fast food joints than I do.


 I keep reading this, but where is the factual evidence of a study that I can read to back this claim up?


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## frustrateddrone

I guess not........


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