# Issues with cut-outs



## Dan P (Oct 29, 2014)

wax moths


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## Redhawk (Jun 7, 2016)

I'd thought about those too but didn't see any in my 1st go at it. Did find a large number of hive beetles but the girls seemed to have them controlled.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

Queenlessness, absconding (many just don't want to be moved), swarming (often by the time you get the call the hives are big and in swarm mode), lots of hiding places for SHB, driving long distances, most people want it for free, lots on time, lots of time tending them after cut out, comb leaning/falling, the smell of cut comb/honey attracts robbers, cross combing, extra feeding, higher winter mortality than an established hive... 

IMO it's not worth the time, make sure you get paid and make it count! A much higher failure rate than a swarm trap that you just hang and take home when it's full. I can hang 50 traps in the time it take to do and tend a few cutouts.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

I need to add if TF feral survivor bees are your goal this is a means to get some.


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## Joe Mac (Jun 1, 2016)

FlowerPlanter said:


> Queenlessness, absconding (many just don't want to be moved), swarming (often by the time you get the call the hives are big and in swarm mode), lots of hiding places for SHB, driving long distances, most people want it for free, lots on time, lots of time tending them after cut out, comb leaning/falling, the smell of cut comb/honey attracts robbers, cross combing, extra feeding, higher winter mortality than an established hive...
> 
> IMO it's not worth the time, make sure you get paid and make it count! A much higher failure rate than a swarm trap that you just hang and take home when it's full. I can hang 50 traps in the time it take to do and tend a few cutouts.


I think FlowerPlanter just about covered the problems one will encounter with cut-outs. My biggest problem has been SHB. When cutting them out a lot of beetles are "released" from jail and go crazy laying eggs and destroying the combs (if you tie the combs into frames) and the bees may abscond within a couple of days. I agree with FlowerPlanter and going forward I'm going to concentrate more on swarm traps. You get cleaner bees for a lot less work and they get a good start with new combs being drawn, especially if your swarm traps are hive bodies with frames. The pulp flower pot swarm traps are ok, if you get them out and into a hive quickly. Otherwise you have a "cut out" to transfer them from the trap into a hive.


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## Beebeard (Apr 27, 2016)

I've had trouble with SHB. If SHB is there, I've learned the hard way that most of the original comb is not worth trying to save. Depending on the colony size, I only keep a few frames worth of brood. Remove as much honey comb as you can into one box, brood comb into another. I keep 1 or 2 frames worth of open brood/ eggs to give them a reason to stay in the new box, and tie in only the comb with lots of good capped brood emerging. Plan on pitching the rest. Crush and strain the honeycomb and feed it back to them in an internal feeder if they are still with you a few days later. Bid the cutout job right and consider the money your reason for the job, and the bees a nice perk.


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## Redhawk (Jun 7, 2016)

I was seeing the cut-out more as a public service, but I can see that the issues are numerous. I did have a lot of shb in the one I just did. Probably shouldn't have but I went into the hive on day 5 because of all the clean out the girls were bringing to the front door. Pulled out some comb that I probably shouldn't have put in anyway, but the brood looked so close to chewing out I was hopeful. I had installed bettle blasters in both deeps & had trapped quite a few & smashed a few while I was in there. Couldn't find shb larvae so felt good about it......so far. Can't believe how dossill these girls are. But bottom line is I'm making bait traps for next spring.

And, Flowerplanter, yes, most definitely. I want to go TF & start raising my own queens.


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## marshmasterpat (Jun 26, 2013)

I did some just for free bees because I am cheap. 

So far I have kept all the brood comb if feasible on the cut outs I have done. Square it up and insert, hanging it with rubber bands or twine. Sometimes I have had 4 pieces of brood comb or comb with eggs to a medium frame. Ease those into a medium at the site and bring nurse bees if I can. Dump the bees in the vacuum into that once at the house. But have done 5 the old fashion way with no vacuum so it is easier to get nurse bees. 

I also have a plastic tote set up to hold hanging frames. I try to remove large pieces of capped comb to keep for the hive. These pieces I cut the comb to fit mediums and rubber band it in as well. Set in the plastic tote and put on cover, do another and repeat. This allows the broken cells to drain into the bottom of the tote and drip dry. Once home I ease these into the medium as well and the bees quickly clean up the sticky honey off them and wax into frames. 

This way they have comb, eggs, larvae, capped brood and capped honey. Seems to hold them well. 

Only done 11 but so far but I have only lost one. It was also the only one I took money for. Second story, got everything out, cleaned up, 17 medium frames of brood comb banded on frames, had nine mediums of honey and about 1/2 a five gallon bucket of honey. Was loading the stuff up and the lady wife said "thank you for doing this we tried spraying them several times and it didn't work". Just as she said this the husband walked up and said "let me pay on for all the hard work". I grabbed what he offered really fast without a blink of eye or bit of guilt. 

Once home dumped the bees into a medium with empty comb, shook in nurse bees, and burnt all the harvested comb. Grrrr. They were gone in two days.


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

marshmasterpat said:


> I did some just for free bees because I am cheap.
> 
> So far I have kept all the brood comb if feasible on the cut outs I have done. Square it up and insert, hanging it with rubber bands or twine. Sometimes I have had 4 pieces of brood comb or comb with eggs to a medium frame. Ease those into a medium at the site and bring nurse bees if I can. Dump the bees in the vacuum into that once at the house. But have done 5 the old fashion way with no vacuum so it is easier to get nurse bees.
> 
> ...


You just did onr for free because the HOMEOWNER was cheap.


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

Honestly, I haven't had any real issues with removal bees. The feral bees seem to be able to deal with pests far better than packaged lazy bees.


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## marshmasterpat (Jun 26, 2013)

Mr Beeman - I didn't even ask, just heard they had bees and offered. But now that I have a dozen hives and a dozen Nucs, not sure if there will be any more free cut outs. Unless they are easy.


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

Removals or cutouts should never be free. From set up, to removal, to clean up you can have anywhere from 5-6 man hours when it is all said and done. I run two techs crews per removal. 
"Free" probably cost you money with fuel and all.


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## Beebeard (Apr 27, 2016)

FWIW I gave this a try with my last cutout. Figured it was way easier than tying in the small pieces, the capped brood would hatch out, and I could pitch the funky comb after. What ended up happening was the brood hatched out, and the queen worked her way through the 1/4 screen, and re-laid in the whole mess. In the end, the bees secured the comb pieces together well enough that I was able to pull the screen and rubber band the whole thing in place. Not sure the orientation is quite right on all the pieces, but since they are still using it, what do I know.


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## marshmasterpat (Jun 26, 2013)

If it works then your good. Like that idea.


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## Redhawk (Jun 7, 2016)

Happy to report my cut-outcast survived day 10&they are now ringing in pollen!!


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## marshmasterpat (Jun 26, 2013)

Great


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## marshmasterpat (Jun 26, 2013)

Grabbed a hive in an abandoned breaker box on a ulitity pole on Tuesday. Old school style removal due to no power anywhere near, but went well. Had 4 frames of brood with some eggs, larvae, and capped brood. Got about 60% of the bees in the box and rest were scattered around. Never saw the queen (never do). Placed the box with entrance about 8 inches from the hive entrance and bees were fanning. There were some bees clustered around the base of the box by the entrance, so sweep them in several times. Bees would fly everywhere but clustering back near the entrance. I places a branch so they could walk into the box, and a few started, so I figured everything is good. 

Came back that night and not a single bee in the box. NOT ONE. The entire colony was clustered on the ground at the base of the utility pole. So placed box by pole so the box is now touching the edge of the swarm, entrance less than an inch from the hive. 

Next morning not a single bee in box, so scooped up some dumped in box and they are fanning. Return at night and colony is gone, not SINGLE BEE in the box.

I am scratching my head, there were two partial queen cells that were empty, maybe the hive was gearing up to swarm, not a lot of eggs, but some were present. Guess I just encouraged that queen to move on.

Sad, cause for doing old fashion style cut out, these ladies didn't get really ticked off. Would have been nice.


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## D Coates (Jan 6, 2006)

I only keep the brood from a cut out and keep the box size to a minimum and feed if there's no flow going on. It allows them defend and work the brood while fresh resources are coming in. For me SHB's are the biggest challenge. More than once I've had a queen from a cut out simply fail to thrive. Spotty brood, lethargic bees, I gave them a couple frames of open and capped brood to try to jump start the hive and right the ship but it made no impact. Ended up pinching the respective queens and combining their nucs with other nucs and they did fine. Many more successes than failures but on rare occasions the queen doesn't recover from the cut out.


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

Was into doing removals up until it got where I used all my equipment housing all the bees. Not a bad problem to have but once I got to almost 50 babies and ran out of boxes again I decided to chill a while. 
You have to be a really smooth talker and watch every single word you say when doing the cutout negotiations and I'm just not that smooth especially when I get a little stressed and tired out. I know I lost a few jobs and walked away from a few that were trying to milk me over some bugs. 

Taking bees from another guy's cutout is what lost me a hive. We dumped his bees from his vac into one of my hives that was a little weak. He didn't tell me about the shb and well you know. I dealt with the loss but learned a lesson there. 

Another time there was a bee tree and they just wanted the 3' long 18" diameter log with the bees hauled off. Seemed too easy until I opened the log up and found the wiggly crawling mess. Made a nice fire.


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## wadehump (Sep 30, 2007)

I quit doing free a few years ago. Had a call last year about bees in a old house that was going to be torn down. Was told they were on the bottom floor going in by a window. Got there and it was second story window 20 feet up told them my price and they thought it was to much. Come to find out they found a 70 year old man to do it for free. Short story is he fell from ladder and broke his leg. And that my friends is why I charge and bees are not Free when all things are figured in.


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## jadebees (May 9, 2013)

I dont do many cutouts at all, the "pet peeve" issues I have are with people lying about spraying them. And, people just don't value your labor, they think you can work all day for $20. 

Once I put all the small extra brood comb pieces from a job down the hill, for the birds and such. 2 days later, there were dead birds from whatever they used. 
The worst thing, was, I gave my friend, (with kids), a quart of that honey. Thankfully, no one ate any before I could warn them. Those liars could have poisoned children.

I lost everything brought home. The bees died 2 weeks later. The $75 cutout cost me contaminated gear, ruined a bee vac, and took 8 hours with 2 trips.You can do the maths. Thats just one of many negatives I've had with cutouts.

Now, I tell people the price is $100 per hour, period. Paid in advance, per my time estimate. Thats because I really Don't want the aggrevation. But if they really want it, I can be bought for a price. I give them my friend the exterminator's number otherwise.


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## marshmasterpat (Jun 26, 2013)

I never give cut out honey to people. Either dumped or feed back to bees at a later date.


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## Redhawk (Jun 7, 2016)

I am happy to report that my first cut-out is doing well & I couldn't be happier! I did have to requeen last week because it was obvious that I didn't get her & the girls were having trouble building comb off of the cut outs. I opened the hive today & found the queen's box empty, but the com s were being drawn out, full of nectar, pollen, capped honey, eggs & larvae. I picked out the runt of the few queens the guy had left because I figured I would requeen in the spring but this lil lady has come out with guns a blazing. Yes, there's still some issues with shb, but that seems to be the norm for this region. I had to retrieve a piece of com from the bottom board before I closed up so I stuck my bear arm down into to box. It was amazing to feel the breeze on my arm these girls were creating drying out the nectar. If it's beginners luck, I'll take it,:thumbsup:


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## Redhawk (Jun 7, 2016)

marshmasterpat said:


> I never give cut out honey to people. Either dumped or feed back to bees at a later date.


I thought about the issue of honey from a cut out. I talked with the superintendent about spraying etc before I ever started the cut out & emphasized the ramifications of that on the honey. While I was doing the cut out I offered him some of the honey. He was every excited to have it. I think if you let the owner know what hazards there are in "poisoned honey" & then later offer them some of the cut out comb, you can tell right away if they are really comfortable with it & whether it has been sprayed or not. If he/she is willing to taste it in front of me I won't be to concerned with feeding it back to the girls. Is that a trick of the trade?


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

Redhawk said:


> I thought about the issue of honey from a cut out. I talked with the superintendent about spraying etc before I ever started the cut out & emphasized the ramifications of that on the honey. While I was doing the cut out I offered him some of the honey. He was every excited to have it. I think if you let the owner know what hazards there are in "poisoned honey" & then later offer them some of the cut out comb, you can tell right away if they are really comfortable with it & whether it has been sprayed or not. If he/she is willing to taste it in front of me I won't be to concerned with feeding it back to the girls. Is that a trick of the trade?


That's brilliant use of logic. However: In general when there are bees in that tree over there everyone for 500 feet or more knows it. There is no controlling what Johnny and Jeffy (neighbor kids) do for fun on weekends and that is why it is not legal to sell honey from cutouts. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSjWxe3k2co


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## fieldsofnaturalhoney (Feb 29, 2012)

jadebees said:


> I dont do many cutouts at all, the "pet peeve" issues I have are with people lying about spraying them. And, people just don't value your labor, they think you can work all day for $20.
> Once I put all the small extra brood comb pieces from a job down the hill, for the birds and such. 2 days later, there were dead birds from whatever they used.
> Now, I tell people the price is $100 per hour, period. Paid in advance, per my time estimate. Thats because I really Don't want the aggrevation. But if they really want it, I can be bought for a price. I give them my friend the exterminator's number otherwise.


:lpf:Yet you still give them an exterminator's number, that is the last thing I would do after experiencing this story. Persistent problems? People, pesticide, and the words I "heard" beekeepers do this for free.


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## Redhawk (Jun 7, 2016)

aunt betty said:


> That's brilliant use of logic. However: In general when there are bees in that tree over there everyone for 500 feet or more knows it. There is no controlling what Johnny and Jeffy (neighbor kids) do for fun on weekends and that is why it is not legal to sell honey from cutouts. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSjWxe3k2co


I totally agree. Ionly gave him some because he stayed with me the whole time I was working & at that point he was smart enough to know if it had been sprayed he'd be crazy to take it home. But I won't ever keep the honey. I see that some people feed it back to their bees but I won't do that either. Why take a chance on feeding them poison?


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