# Cheap Nucs?



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Are those who sell nucs selling them a too low a price? From a sellers point of view? If you bottle and market your own honey and sell out, aren't you selling too cheap? Same with nucs. If you sell out, aren't you selling too cheap?

I understand selling out because you only want to sell as many nucs as you have boxes for, but if you have a nuc business, shouldn't you be selling nucs whenever someone wants one, within reason? In other words, if I order some nucs from you early enough for you to plan ahead, say before January, shouldn't you have one price, and after January 1st shouldn't you have another price and a policy of first come first serve?

What is your pricing policy? How do you handle orders? What do you consider an on time order and a late order? Do you have a cut off date or a cut off number? What if you sold all of the nucs you made and someone wanted to buy as many nucs as you had hives remaining at whatever price you wanted to name? Would you turn your nose up at that?


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## drlonzo (Apr 15, 2014)

Interesting thoughts Mark.. I'm unable to answer all the questions but all the same interesting thoughts.


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## Matt903 (Apr 8, 2013)

Full disclosure I am a small sideline operation, not selling hundreds of nucs per year. But, I set my price in January and stay with that price all season. There is something that sticks in my craw about raising prices mid season. It reminds me of gas stations and hardware stores that raise prices when a hurricane is forecasted. I would rather be known as an honest business person who sticks by their word, rather than make an extra few bucks when demand for bees goes up later in the season. I am not against raising prices from season to season, but I feel when a price is set, and posted on my website, it should stay that way. That's just me, maybe if bees were my sole income I would think different, but I do not believe I would. I have a hunch that getting a reputation as being a honest person to deal with, will make more money in the long run.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Matt903 said:


> ..... I feel when a price is set, and posted on my website, it should stay that way.


I agree, but if you posted on your website "Purchases before xx/xx/xx the price is $XX and after xx/xx/xx, $xx.........you'd still be sticking to your price...


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## Dominic (Jul 12, 2013)

sqkcrk said:


> Are those who sell nucs selling them a too low a price? From a sellers point of view? If you bottle and market your own honey and sell out, aren't you selling too cheap? Same with nucs. If you sell out, aren't you selling too cheap?
> 
> I understand selling out because you only want to sell as many nucs as you have boxes for, but if you have a nuc business, shouldn't you be selling nucs whenever someone wants one, within reason? In other words, if I order some nucs from you early enough for you to plan ahead, say before January, shouldn't you have one price, and after January 1st shouldn't you have another price and a policy of first come first serve?
> 
> What is your pricing policy? How do you handle orders? What do you consider an on time order and a late order? Do you have a cut off date or a cut off number? What if you sold all of the nucs you made and someone wanted to buy as many nucs as you had hives remaining at whatever price you wanted to name? Would you turn your nose up at that?


You kind of want to sell out, though, if you want to maximize income.

And if you go along the lines of "I could double the price and still probably sell all of my nucs", you might do so the first year, but all of those clients who also bought nucs elsewhere, or who had friends buy nucs elsewhere, will soon be asking themselves "was my nuc really WORTH double the price?" Odds are many of your customers will be new beekeepers that might not have known better, and once they learn that nucs are available elsewhere for much cheaper, they'll feel cheated and resentful. Then, bad word will spread about you, and you'll be labeled as a profiteer and a crook. Especially by the competition that's jealous of the prices you are obtaining. I haven't seen this happen with nucs, but I have for other commodities, and I'm pretty confident the same would apply in this case. Sometimes some people can get off with selling things many times more expensive than what their competitors get, but you better have a pretty darn good selling pitch to pull it off.

Our pricing is flexible. We ask a down-payment, but also offer a discount to people who pay up front. The discount is about 2% per month, so up to 10% in january. We sold out very quickly this year... Prices will increase every year to compensate for inflation and to reflect the improvement of our stock, but I don't foresee a huge price increase for the sole sake of curbing demand. Instead, we'll probably play the down-payment %, delivery dates, and other such factors. It really is a huge relief to get all of that cashflow right in January instead of June and July, and most of our clients are glad to pay up front.

The policy is all published up front before we start taking orders, which is on January first. We don't take orders before that to give ourselves enough time to review our year's performance and plan for the next.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Thank you Dominic. Very educational for me.


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## MTN-Bees (Jan 27, 2014)

I'm a small sideline business. The Nucs I've been producing so far have been used for my increase. Next year I plan to sell overwintered Nucs. I plan a reasonable fixed price and plan to stick to that price. It seems like the honest way to do business. I agree with Matt903 business principles.


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## drlonzo (Apr 15, 2014)

sqkcrk said:


> Thank you Dominic. Very educational for me.


Mark, are you planning to add to the income stream? Would seem like a good fit for you. Allow pollination to build up the main hives and take small starts from each once back and before honey production.


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## quattro (Oct 2, 2014)

As someone who has spent a fair amount of my career in marketing, I always find discussions like this extremely interesting. I always find the association of pricing to honesty intriguing. A price is a price, it is a number and yet in this country, it is somehow deemed to be unethical if it is "too high".

All that being said, pricing can be a fairly complex subject with many variables, including perceived value, availability of competitors, time, durability of customers, and market position desires.

I think the first question you need to ask yourself is, "What do I want to be in the market?" Are you a quality and/or service provider? Do you want to be a major player? Do you want to just sell a few excess on a transactional basis? Each of these carries a different strategy.

I realize this post is a bit esoteric, but it does depend upon your objective.


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

Matt903...

The folks that place an order and put their money up front allow you to plan for those nucs.

The folks that order last minute do not. I see no issue with a higher price for nucs that have not been planned for.

I am too new into this to offer nucs...yet. I hope to eventually offer overwintered nucs and sell those at a premium price.

This year, in our area, packages were $207 a piece. If I had solid overwintered nucs to offer I think they would be of greater value than a chucked together, stressed group of bees with an unknown Queen.


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## quattro (Oct 2, 2014)

"The folks that place an order and put their money up front allow you to plan for those nucs."
Time

"If I had solid overwintered nucs to offer I think they would be of greater value than a chucked together, stressed group of bees with an unknown Queen. "
Value

What is it that you want to be and what is it you want to sell? They will all affect price. Another thing I have learned in my extremely short time in beekeeping - it is an hyperlocal market in almost all cases.


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## TylerStewart (Oct 15, 2014)

Matt903 said:


> I have a hunch that getting a reputation as being a honest person to deal with, will make more money in the long run.


Maybe it's just me, but I don't see it as dishonest when supply and demand justify a price increase.... If you had 400 nucs sitting there, say they were congested and you needed to move them sooner than later, lowering the price would be a perfectly acceptable (in my eyes) way to help move some out. When you get down to 50 or 100, why not take the price up a bit? As a buyer, I don't see that as dishonest, as we kinda do the same thing with the tortoises that we sell (when I have 100 of one type of baby here, it can be congested and I'd like to move them out, but then in the winter when supply is low, we raise the price 10-30% since we have less available, and just as many people still want them in the winter). I can always shop around for a lower price from a similarly 'professional' supplier. As seasonal as bee packages and nucs are, I see no problem at all with a 'pre-order price' and then a price that jumps up month by month (or as supply dictates) into the year.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

I see bringing in "honesty" into pricing structure as irrelevant. Either you're honest or you're not. You think the guy selling the BMW is less honest than the guy selling Chevys? The guy selling a Chevy re-badged as a BMW is dishonest. Those who are not honest will not be in business very long. Those who are honest should do their best to make the highest quality product possible and charge what the market will bear based upon their product. Your prices should be set by local supply and demand, and the quality of the product you sell. Feeling and emotions have little role in the sale of commodities. Sure you can price yourself out of the market, but at least recently, if you've got a quality product you'll quickly be able to find that equilibrium price point between supply and demand. Yes, pre-orders should get a discount, because there are opportunity costs involved for the buyer and he/she should be compensated. However, set a pricing structure and stick to it for the season. That doesn't mean the price of a nuc in March should be exactly that in June, simply stick to a pricing structure, so that your customer understands what to expect.


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

sqkcrk said:


> In other words, if I order some nucs from you early enough for you to plan ahead, say before January, shouldn't you have one price, and after January 1st shouldn't you have another price and a policy of first come first serve?


This guy does exactly that: http://www.dancingbeehoney.com/Queens_and_Nucs.html

$167 before April 1st, $187 after.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Honesty or fairness isn't really the pricing issue, but you do need to be competitive with other sellers to some extent I think. I Want to sell out, so that I can move on to other things. 

Also for me one of the good things about selling nucs is that most of the work is done just in the month of April (I sell spring splits with local overwintered queens - when it goes as planned) and you get paid pretty much all at once (around May 1) when they are ready. I could almost certainly charge more if they were ready earlier, but they aren't - and the flip side of that is that they start to lose value by the middle of May in this area because the flow mostly happens in that month.

Another issue is that at some point you start seeing single deeps from pollinators become available pretty cheap.

My price is higher this year than it was last year, and it is likely to go up a little again next year... until I no longer sell out.


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## HungryBear (May 28, 2012)

Mark, I think there is a fine line to answer your first question. While selling out may make you want to lean to raising the price, like others have said, your reputation will then be you are priced high. As a result, you will not sell as many in the future, and those you do sell, most likely will be later, after everyone else who is cheaper sells out. Once you get a bad rep, its very hard to fix. I would rather sell all my nucs early, and hit my profit make by selling more nucs at a lower price. This allows as proven for me, to get orders early. I had a waiting list in October for 2015 nucs...

No, you should not sell nucs whenever anyone wants them. You might be selling your self short. I had some nucs I made up, was keeping them for me, someone waive new hundred dollar bills in front of me and I sold them. Never should have, it set me back. Oh coarse, they paid a higher price because I wanted to keep them.

On the price change. I agree with Matt903, that you should be up front, have it listed and stick to it. But at the same time, if you have need for cash flow and need to sell early. If that pricing schedule is set, and published, then customers know it. I pre-sold at last years price until 12/31, on 1/1 price went to 2015. It was posted and listed and I told customers when they called. I simply said, I will be going to 2015 prices as of 1/1. I think that is fair and honest, especially give it matching the year end.

To have a nuc or package reserved in your name, I require full payment and 3 ways to contact you, phone, email and address. I think this is the only way to do it. Taking a deposit on them just makes for a mess, and you have to then mess with taking payment on pickup day which is already crazy enough. What are you going to do if they cancel the order on pickup day or after? Now you have to find another buyer. I have had people pay in full and NEVER come get their nucs, if they are willing to loose full payment, even more so on a lower amount, at least I got my cost covered. I do not want to deal with money on pickup day. Its bad enough I have to build peoples hives and sell them all the equipment on pickup day because they didn't plan things thru. The less you need to do on pickup day, the better. I also, mass email the pickup times, 1 even time, 1 morning time. Outside of that window... you must make an appointment or risk meeting my two German Shepards. I also stress that I am in bear county, so you better pickup your nuc before the bears do... these are more a scare tactic then anything, but are true facts. Newbees sometimes think the bees can wait, and this is why I word things so strongly and use the tactic's I do. On flip side, if you know you will be gone that week and plan with me a head of time, I offen will hive peoples nucs in their equipment they dropped off to me, I am more then willing to help if they plan ahead with me. Packages I will charge a small fee for hiving and feeding. I also block my drive way off during pickup week, I open it up for the pickup times or schedule appointments. 

You don't turn your nose up, you respectfully decline. Educate them on the proper time to order nucs, and send them on their way with a business card and a honey stick(or similar).


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## Matt903 (Apr 8, 2013)

Thank you David. I believe you articulated that better than I could. And thanks everyone else for your thoughts. Look folks, I never claimed to be an economics major, like is said, I am just a sideliner. I just like way price my nucs, I feel it is a fair price for the product I sell. Maybe if this ever turns into a full time job, I will look at some of the advice given here, I think you all made some good points.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

quattro said:


> As someone who has spent a fair amount of my career in marketing, I always find discussions like this extremely interesting. I always find the association of pricing to honesty intriguing. A price is a price, it is a number and yet in this country, it is somehow deemed to be unethical if it is "too high".
> 
> All that being said, pricing can be a fairly complex subject with many variables, including perceived value, availability of competitors, time, durability of customers, and market position desires.
> 
> ...


I bet you could teach us something about marketing. Beekeepers seem to be poor marketers generally.


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

Marketing can be as simple or as complicated as you want.

In the end it is what the market will bere...you can influence that yhrough active marketing...product propaganda. Also one has determine the minimum profit margin margin for them in order to make the offerring worthwhile. Hopefully there is a lot of room between minimum profit and and market cut off...that is when profits can sore and both provider and purchaser are happy with ehat they have.


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

Let's face it the longer you hang onto a nuc the more it's going to cost you in time and possibly feed so the later you sell it the higher the price should be.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

:lpf: Good one HC.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

As I said in an earlier post....I'm an awful businessman. Having said that, I understand business. I focus my nuc sales on relatively new beekeepers but each year get return business. I know how much it costs me to make a nuc. When people pick them up I know what they're getting and make sure they do too. We move the nuc frame by frame from my box into theirs while I point out the various things...brood, pollen, eggs, larvae....and no nuc goes without us seeing the queen. Not everyone offers the same thing. There's a beekeeper down the road who has a couple of pick up days. She sells hers, box and all. Customers come by, hand her the money and take their box of bees. They do the install when they get the box home. My way isn't better...it is just different. 
I've talked to new beekeepers who picked up 'nucs'...basically getting the box of bees and when they got it home the queen was still in her cage. She hadn't even actually been accepted. That is part of the risk I take. The queens are accepted and have established a good laying pattern before I even consider selling a nuc..
Early on in my beekeeping I bought nucs from an outfit that sent you home with the box of bees. When I got them home and started the transfer I realized that the supplier was using their nuc customers to unload their trash frames. They were awful.....and I culled them the first season.
My point is that all nucs are not necessarily equal. And consequently the prices shouldn't be.
I figure my costs...including my time and risk losses....add what I consider an acceptable markup and that is the price I ask. I've sold everything I put out each year....but so what? I'm comfortable with the margin. I am confident that my customers are getting a quality product at a fair price. At the end of the day....what else matters? This is my marketing philosophy on pretty much everything I sell. Honey. Candles. Vinegar. Bees.
I make a profit. I'll never get rich. I sleep well.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

sqkcrk>> I sell good nucs, at a premium price and limit the supply of them. I do this because nuc sales are a part of the total revenue I shoot for on a per hive basis. If I sold nucs to everyone who came knocking whenever they wanted them it would cut into my honey production side of per hive revenue. I sell all I make up for sale, and have even sold nucs I make up for my own management purposes on occasion but I find that sets me back with my overall plan.
All of my nucs require pre-ordering. I charge one price, a premium price, for the late spring nucs and the summer nucs. I sell way more spring nucs. I collect a deposit which is non refundable and some folks don't ever pick up their nucs for one reason or another. Those nucs become part of my resources during the year. I communicate with my nuc customers via email and will work with them re pick up if they have a reasonable request. I stop taking spring orders when I reach the number I decided to make over the winter, summer nucs have no cut off but are limited by equipment on hand. Most of my orders are for 1-4 nucs per customer.
If someone wanted to buy as many nucs as I had hives I would be limited by lack of nuc equipment but more importantly to me is that if it effected my honey harvest and total per hive revenue goal in a negative way I would not even consider the request.
clyde


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## Dominic (Jul 12, 2013)

beemandan said:


> I've talked to new beekeepers who picked up 'nucs'...basically getting the box of bees and when they got it home the queen was still in her cage. She hadn't even actually been accepted. That is part of the risk I take. The queens are accepted and have established a good laying pattern before I even consider selling a nuc.


I, and other local breeders, purposefully cage a queen before pick-up. My queens hatch in their nucs, where they are left a few weeks to mate. When it's time for pick-up, I inspect the nucs, and if the nuc is ready to be sold, I mark and cage the queen. This is done to protect the queen from being squished by the frames during transport. I do try to stress this point, however, with each client that comes to pick up his nucs. Just because the queen is caged doesn't mean she isn't native to the colony.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Dominic said:


> This is done to protect the queen from being squished by the frames during transport.


I understand that there are those who do this. The case I'm referring to, I'm sure the queen was new to the box of bees.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Mark are getting into the NUC sales business?


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## awebber96 (May 28, 2012)

There is a famous question that is asked in business schools: why do home depot and lowes sell construction materials for the same price before and after a natural disaster hits an area? For example, why do they continue to sell a piece of plywood for $20 when demand is so high that someone might be willing to pay $100 for it at that moment? At $20 they sell out within minutes. Its because they care more about long-term customer relationships than market pricing. Would you rather sell all your nucs at a fair price and have folks feel like maybe they got the better end of the deal (and who might come back to you year-after-year)? Or would you rather charge the absolute most you can and maximize profits and have some folks feel like maybe you overcharged them (for example, when you pay $5 for a soda at the movie theater)? There isnt a right or wrong answer, just how you want to run your business.


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## TylerStewart (Oct 15, 2014)

awebber96 said:


> There is a famous question that is asked in business schools: why do home depot and lowes sell construction materials for the same price before and after a natural disaster hits an area? For example, why do they continue to sell a piece of plywood for $20 when demand is so high that someone might be willing to pay $100 for it at that moment? At $20 they sell out within minutes. Its because they care more about long-term customer relationships than market pricing. Would you rather sell all your nucs at a fair price and have folks feel like maybe they got the better end of the deal (and who might come back to you year-after-year)? Or would you rather charge the absolute most you can and maximize profits and have some folks feel like maybe you overcharged them (for example, when you pay $5 for a soda at the movie theater)? There isnt a right or wrong answer, just how you want to run your business.


I think this might be different, though, if Home Depot could only produce plywood between February and May (like bee packages, for example). They'd have a million sheets in May that they would be eager to move out, and as the year drug on, they would absolutely get higher in price. If a product is as easy to make in March as it is in October, there shouldn't really be a big seasonal swing in price.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

awebber96 said:


> There is a famous question that is asked in business schools: why do home depot and lowes sell construction materials for the same price before and after a natural disaster hits an area?



Don't know what the students from these business schools answer, but for me its obvious. As a nationwide company it would be unethical to sell the same product at various locations well outside of any normal local adjustments (freight & fees). Its the same reason that Mann Lake sell packages for the same price regardless of local losses. And the same reason that once you set your nuc pricing structure for the season you don't go back a readjust it based upon the misfortune of your customers. Ethics and capitalism can coexist. Problems occur when unethical businesses try to shield their practices using arguments of free enterprise and capitalism.


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## awebber96 (May 28, 2012)

As I understood the original post, the general question was "If you sell out, aren't you selling too cheap?" I don't think its unethical to charge whatever the market will bear--we are all capitalists to some degree or another. What I was saying is that one might wish to consider the long-term effect of a customer who feels like they are being price-gouged. For example, if I bought a nuc from someone for $150 who had, earlier that day, sold an identical nuc to someone for $100 simply on the basis of when I placed the order or how many nucs they had left, I might feel a little gouged. 

I'd feel even more gouged if you had the last queen in an area, you knew it was late September, and you knew I had a queenless hive that would crash if it didn't get a queen, but you charged me $100 for a queen that--had it been July--you would have charged $15 for. I'd probably pay your price (grudgingly), but I would certainly remember your sharp dealing all my beekeeping days.

Certainly airlines do this and have no second thoughts (try buying a ticket the week of the flight or try buying the last seat on a flight). But other businesses will not because they made the decision that X is a fair price regardless of when someone orders it, whether its the last item on the shelf, or whether demand spikes unexpectedly. Here is an article discussing this theory: http://www.nytimes.com/1992/09/22/business/lessons-from-a-hurricane-it-pays-not-to-gouge.html. The key quote: "An example: a hardware store, which had been charging $15 each for snow shovels, raises the price to $20 the morning after a big snowstorm. Eighty two percent of those polled replied that the price rise was unfair...in general, people do not believe that scarcity is a good reason for a supplier to raise prices."


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

awebber96 said:


> There is a famous question that is asked in business schools: why do home depot and lowes sell construction materials for the same price before and after a natural disaster hits an area? For example, why do they continue to sell a piece of plywood for $20 when demand is so high that someone might be willing to pay $100 for it at that moment? At $20 they sell out within minutes. Its because they care more about long-term customer relationships than market pricing. Would you rather sell all your nucs at a fair price and have folks feel like maybe they got the better end of the deal (and who might come back to you year-after-year)? Or would you rather charge the absolute most you can and maximize profits and have some folks feel like maybe you overcharged them (for example, when you pay $5 for a soda at the movie theater)? There isnt a right or wrong answer, just how you want to run your business.


So I shouldn't put a $200.00 price tag on my Nucs because that price wouldn't be fair?


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

I don't think any of this is a question of ethics. Our customers will survive if they don't get a nuc. There may be philosophical differences of opinion....but frankly, I don't see them. Someone chooses to sell their nucs based entirely on what the market will bear....even if it is $200+......is fine, in my opinion. Simply because it isn't what I might choose to do doesn't mean that I have, somehow chosen the 'high road'. I say.....go for it. 
PS...I got an email today. Wanting to know the price of a nuc to be picked up next week. The first time I've ever heard from this person. I'll be polite....but it ain't happening.....
Mark...if you have any of those $200 nucs....I'll be happy to send him your way


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Yes so selling nucs is nothing like selling plywood. NUC sales happen along with package sales. NUC orders start in Nov for an April or May delivery date. Sell the NUCs for what the market will bear. Understand your local competition and market accordingly. If the nearest beekeeper is selling NUCs for 150.00 but is 2 hours away then 200.00 per NUC would be a fair price. especially if the quality of your NUC surpasses your competitions NUC.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

sqkcrk said:


> I bet you could teach us something about marketing. Beekeepers seem to be poor marketers generally.


I think many beekeepers are poor marketers for one reason. Personality that suits working stinging insects over working with alot of people (sales). Most beekeepers i know dont even care about proper marketing and just look to wholesale their goods for a reasonable price. What do you think Mark?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

beemandan said:


> Mark...if you have any of those $200 nucs....I'll be happy to send him your way


I only have one left. Your customer better get here quick.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

BMAC said:


> What do you think Mark?


My wife told me one time, referring to my wholesale honey price, "I wouldn't pay that much for honey." Thing is, I'm not selling honey to her. I'm selling honey to people who willingly pay what it costs. They are mostly paying for the convenience of finding it on the shelf when they want it.

ps: my wife doesn't have to buy honey. I give her whatever honey she needs.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

So in effect we are selling a service. Being we are now a service oriented country we might just sell the best service we can muster. I have heard from many people grumble about the price we ask for our honey. A good friend of mine once said you cant have everyone for a customer.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Of course we are providing a service. If we weren't people would have to have their own hives to have honey. "Don't sell the steak, sell the sizzle." Honey Marketers don't sell Honey, they sell the story. They sell the image and the imagination, the idea of what honey is and the "cowboy" behind the product.

When a nuc producer sells a nuc she is, just like you and me, Brian, selling all it takes to produce that nuc and get it to market.

No, you can't have everyone for a customer. And you aught to decide whether, as a honey marketer, you want to be "Walmart" or "Neiman-Marcus".


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## Huntingstoneboy (Feb 10, 2013)

I advertised nucs for $130, and filled the list of what I was sure I could make in 1 week. Did I under price myself? Absolutely! Will price go up next year? Absolutely! I know I can produce queens that will blow boxes up before fall if taken care of. Watched it happen last summer. That being said...do I have $1500 work horses or $20,000 race horses? Guess that depends on the trainer, but I wouldn't sell a box of bees or a queen that I wouldn't want for myself. In fact there are times I hate to see some great, young queens leave. Price nucs for what they are worth to you, and don't look back. funny part about nuc sales...gentleman asked me "Why should I buy your nuc when i can buy a $110 package?" I told him to buy the package, and call me next year. I am a newbie still so take my opinion for what its worth.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

sqkcrk said:


> Of course we are providing a service. If we weren't people would have to have their own hives to have honey. "Don't sell the steak, sell the sizzle." Honey Marketers don't sell Honey, they sell the story. They sell the image and the imagination, the idea of what honey is and the "cowboy" behind the product.
> 
> When a nuc producer sells a nuc she is, just like you and me, Brian, selling all it takes to produce that nuc and get it to market.
> 
> No, you can't have everyone for a customer. And you aught to decide whether, as a honey marketer, you want to be "Walmart" or "Neiman-Marcus".


:thumbsup:


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## Beregondo (Jun 21, 2011)

What's a nuc worth?

There are at least two numbers, usually.

For the buyer, it's the lowest price a seller will take for a nuke of the quality he wants, with the feature he wants, in the area he wants to buy it in.

To.the seller, it's the highest price someone is willing to pay him for it.

I've done a lot of selling in my life, between jobs in sales, and owning my own business.

There.is.a rule.of thumb that has served me well:

If at least 20% of prospective buyers don't object to the process too high, then my price is too low.

Mind you, most of.my sales has been face to face, not advertise and take orders.

There is a certain portion of the market who will complain about your price,and that you're gouging, and how unethical you are, regardless of what your price is.

And then go brag to their friends what a great deal they got.

There's a local nuc producer asking, (and likely getting, as she is a good marketer) $200 for her nucs.

She's been beekeeping less than 5 years, and began producing and selling queens shortly thereafter.

There's nothing wrong with her price, and I haven't ever heard anyone complain about her products.

But they aren't what I want, where I want them.

I'm only paying my nuc producer $150 a piece for the 4 nucs I'm getting, but I'm driving 2 1/2 hours to pick them up, instead of less than half that.

Charging a premium for an overwintered nuc, or a late in the season one because one knows now that I here will be fewer available then, (as well as momey uaving time value) isn't unethical.
It's just good business.

It's also a good idea to charge the guy a premium who calls at the last minute and needs your product yesterday, if you choose to sell to him at all.

Charging him a premium encourag s him to plan ahead, and to keep a spare ( nuc, queen, bag of pollen sub, whatever) on hand, rather than disrupting hour work flow for his emergency rush order.

Give excellent service providing excellent product and charge a price appropriate for excellence.

Quality, or even simply the perception of it, sells.

Pay yourself first, and don't cheat your kids out of their inheritance.


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## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> So I shouldn't put a $200.00 price tag on my Nucs because that price wouldn't be fair?


When a willing buyer, and a willing seller agree on a price, that is by definition, a fair price. 

The rest of the conversation is about business practice, product quality, and ethics, which is a totally different conversation from pricing.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

sqkcrk>>
So how do you feel about all this now? 
did you sell'em to cheap since you only have 1 left?
are you going to accept early orders at one price and sell late ordered nucs at another price?
will you make up those 'name your price' if the opportunity presents itself? (in my experience "name your price" has one qualifier which is "as long as it's within reason")
and where will that leave you if you do?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I may just go back to not selling nucs.


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## Huntingstoneboy (Feb 10, 2013)

Had a guy email me today asking if I would drive to his place, when I have free time. He wants me to explain to him, and his son how to properly move frames, find a queen, and work bees. He feels this will benefit the buyer, the seller, and the bees. How much is is bulk honey in 5 gallon buckets worth? Maybe I should be building supers instead of nucs!


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Advice is free. Teachers today are paid well for giving lessons. Lessons are always beneficial to students.

What is a lbs of honey worth to you? 5 gallon bucket of honey is 60lbs. Dont for one minute believe that is bulk honey and rates wholesale pricing.


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## Huntingstoneboy (Feb 10, 2013)

Great "advice" and free!


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## fieldsofnaturalhoney (Feb 29, 2012)

BMAC said:


> Advice is free. Teachers today are paid well for giving lessons. Lessons are always beneficial to students.


Most of this holds true, not so sure about the pay


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## RudyT (Jan 25, 2012)

Many people pay for veterinarians to examine animals (either pets or livestock) and give advice about care. Expensive but valuable if it works. I assume more if the vet travels.
I keep trying to form some comparison.


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## Michael B (Feb 6, 2010)

I am finding more and more that quality nucs are underpriced. I sell my deep nucs with freshly mated queen grafted off proven stock for $150.

Far too often package bee re-sellers are getting $100-125 for a 3 pound package no matter the qty. and all they did was drive to Georgia and collect the money.


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## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

I like it. All they do is drive to GA and collect the money. 
Did you hear about the company a few years back that lost a load (over heated) of packages. Yep they had remorgage their house and company to pay back there customers. The last year they sold bees and just collected the $$$$.:ws:

Been transporting bees for over 17 years and that drive gets harder ever trip. With big risk, should come a big pay out. My load I had last week was over $50K. If everything goes well this year the pay out will be over $200K in honey. Big different between buy and reselling to buy and working them. Just think if the guy buying the bees to resell them could work them right. 
Just like nucs you can sell them or work them. Make a check now or work them and make 2X-3X by working the bees for honey.:thumbsup:


It all comes down to CASH flow. I sell off so many nucs each year to keep the company running with a year around cash flow. Ofcoarse I could try and work all the bees and go for a bigger pay off.:scratch:


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Yeah - lots of things look like easy money until you try it yourself. 

"If they don't sell I'll just work them for honey." Is a great thing to keep in mind though.


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

David LaFerney said:


> Yeah - lots of things look like easy money until you try it yourself.


It is true that the cash always looks greener on the other side of the fence. To our peril we only see the $ signs in meadow "way over there" while failing to see the tired and worn out dude who piled it there and is now catching his last breath while leaning against the far side of a distant tree just beyond our line of sight.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>If at least 20% of prospective buyers don't object to the process too high, then my price is too low.

I don't know about 20% but if some of them aren't complaining then your price is too low for sure.


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