# Video: The Cell Builder explained



## Plenty of honey

High everyone, i just wanted to share this video i made on how i raise my queens here in Brittany France. Not telling anyone how they should or shouldn't raise their queens, because everyone should try different methods until they find a method that works for them. 
This Method is based of course on Mike Palmers 10 + 10 method. I would hope its a good learning tool for anyone learning cell building, as i have tried to pack in as much detail as possible. 
There is obviously many ways to raise excellent queens and they all basically revolve around making a colony "hopelessly queen less" in order to utilise the emergency response, combined with the swarming impulse, which Mikes method personifies excellently. 
Personally, I do change things a bit, as i remove started cells after 24 hours and use finishers for my cells, leaving the starter to run another 2 times before i return the queen right section and use it as a finisher on day 5 to 6 after the last round are capped. (Similar thing to a "swarm box starter" and "queen right finisher" but in a different format with the sustainability element brought in)
If your new to cell building, its a terrific way to learn the ins and outs of the entire process. You will get excellent cells, still packed full of royal jelly on the day of hatching.
Have a go learn a huge amount in the process.

https://youtu.be/TW_FJTnhilg


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## dudelt

What an excellent video! Thank you.


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## Michael Palmer

:thumbsup:


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## yotebuster1200

I have always followed Palmer's cell builder queen rearing method pretty close. It just makes a lot of sense. I have not done a lot of research on using finishers. I can imagine you are using your starter to start a lot more cells but what would the advantage be over just setting up 3 starter/finisher combos. You still need strong finishers right? 

(I haven't watched your video yet... maybe you answered all my questions in your video)


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## JoshuaW

Thank you!! Great film!!


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## Nhaupt2

thank you for taking the time to make this video, your love of the bees is evident!


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## Hoot Owl Lane Bees

Very well done.
I have book marked it for future reference.
Thank You


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## Scott Gough

Thanks for the video post. It is very well done.


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## Juhani Lunden

Plenty of honey said:


> This Method is based of course on Mike Palmers 10 + 10 method.


It is actually the method what Brother Adam used and he described it in his book "Meine Betriebsweise", published 1978.


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## Michael Palmer

Juhani Lunden said:


> It is actually the method what Brother Adam used and he described it in his book "Meine Betriebsweise", published 1978.


Yep, that's where I got it.


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## tpope

Good video. It's nice to see this through a different set of eyes so to speak.


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## Cuttingedgelandinc

Very nice video. I have one question for you, Juhani and Mike. What do you think is the advantage of using separate starter/ finisher hives vs the cloake board method? I have experimented with both and would like to hear your feelings on the different methods.


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## Juhani Lunden

Cuttingedgelandinc said:


> Very nice video. I have one question for you, Juhani and Mike. What do you think is the advantage of using separate starter/ finisher hives vs the cloake board method? I have experimented with both and would like to hear your feelings on the different methods.


 Separate starters (3kg) and finishers were used when my need for queens was bigger than today. (+200 queens)

The bees in starters ended up in Apidea mating nucs. Today I use inseminations and overwintered Mini-Plus hives for new queens.

Both work well. Although starters are said to be bomb proof, they can fail, too, if a gueen is accidently brushed in.


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## Cuttingedgelandinc

Juhani Lunden said:


> Separate starters (3kg) and finishers were used when my need for queens was bigger than today. (+200 queens)
> 
> The bees in starters ended up in Apidea mating nucs. Today I use inseminations and overwintered Mini-Plus hives for new queens.
> 
> Both work well. Although starters are said to be bomb proof, they can fail, too, if a gueen is accidently brushed in.


Thank you for your perspective. 
This was my first year experimenting with a separate starter/ finisher hive. I have a few Cloake boards for my operation and like the results of using that method. I will try both again this season.


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## AstroBee

Cuttingedgelandinc said:


> Thank you for your perspective.
> This was my first year experimenting with a separate starter/ finisher hive.


My belief is that separate starter/ finisher is more geared for those who want maximum throughput. If you're not planning to make lots of cells for an extended duration, then separate starter/ finisher may be overkill for you. Further, I suspect that a combined starter/ finisher (based on the above system) will likely yield better cells than the separate starter/ finisher. No quite sure how you could improve upon the conditions (as laid out in this video) to start and finish cells . Perhaps those making 1000+ cells per year would feel differently.


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## Cuttingedgelandinc

AstroBee said:


> My belief is that separate starter/ finisher is more geared for those who want maximum throughput. If you're not planning to make lots of cells for an extended duration, then separate starter/ finisher may be overkill for you. Further, I suspect that a combined starter/ finisher (based on the above system) will likely yield better cells than the separate starter/ finisher. No quite sure how you could improve upon the conditions (as laid out in this video) to start and finish cells . Perhaps those making 1000+ cells per year would feel differently.


Thanks for the explanation. This upcoming season I am going to try and up my production. I will try both methods again and see which performs better for me. For reference, I am only planning on approximately 100- 200 Queens both for my operation as well as selling some.


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## mitch30

Great video


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## sebashtionh

is this book Meine Betriebsweise 
sold translated?


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## SDiver40

:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## crgshhn

Plenty of honey said:


> High everyone, i just wanted to share this video i made on how i raise my queens here in Brittany France. Not telling anyone how they should or shouldn't raise their queens, because everyone should try different methods until they find a method that works for them.
> This Method is based of course on Mike Palmers 10 + 10 method. I would hope its a good learning tool for anyone learning cell building, as i have tried to pack in as much detail as possible.
> There is obviously many ways to raise excellent queens and they all basically revolve around making a colony "hopelessly queen less" in order to utilise the emergency response, combined with the swarming impulse, which Mikes method personifies excellently.
> Personally, I do change things a bit, as i remove started cells after 24 hours and use finishers for my cells, leaving the starter to run another 2 times before i return the queen right section and use it as a finisher on day 5 to 6 after the last round are capped. (Similar thing to a "swarm box starter" and "queen right finisher" but in a different format with the sustainability element brought in)
> If your new to cell building, its a terrific way to learn the ins and outs of the entire process. You will get excellent cells, still packed full of royal jelly on the day of hatching.
> Have a go learn a huge amount in the process.
> 
> https://youtu.be/TW_FJTnhilg


I've watched your video a few times now and love it! I plan to use this method this spring. A question I have, when you first load the top box with frames of sealed brood then a queen excluder below that and then the bottom box with the queen in it, what type frames of brood or other do you stock the bottom box with the queen in it? Are they sealed brood, open brood, nectar, pollen, drawn comb, foundation? Or does it matter? And then 10 days later when you set the bottom box with the queen off to the side turned 180*, does it matter what frames are in there with the queen at that point? 

Thanks again for a wonderful video!


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## crgshhn

double post


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## yotebuster1200

The bottom box has the frames from the original hive. You pick a strong hive, place a queen excluder on it and then place the frames of emerging brood on top of that. The extra frames are pretty much boosting an existing hive with young nurse bees that will be the correct age when you graft.


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## crgshhn

yotebuster1200 said:


> The bottom box has the frames from the original hive. You pick a strong hive, place a queen excluder on it and then place the frames of emerging brood on top of that. The extra frames are pretty much boosting an existing hive with young nurse bees that will be the correct age when you graft.


So since I am currently running 10 frame double deep hive, then I'll put a queen excluder over the top box, then set an empty box on top of the excluder, load it with capped brood, and now it will be three boxes high for this process? Just wonder if I could keep it to the original two box setup while doing this instead of 3 boxes? Is that possible by rearranging the frames as needed to put all capped brood in top box of two box set up?


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## yotebuster1200

I am sure it could be but why? Do you have a reason you would prefer keeping the stack down? To me that would make sense if the bees were not using the 10 frames you pulled but if that is the case you haven't really chosen a strong colony. But... You can have strong single deep setups so hopefully someone who runs them will chime in.


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## Plenty of honey

crgshhn said:


> So since I am currently running 10 frame double deep hive, then I'll put a queen excluder over the top box, then set an empty box on top of the excluder, load it with capped brood, and now it will be three boxes high for this process? Just wonder if I could keep it to the original two box setup while doing this instead of 3 boxes? Is that possible by rearranging the frames as needed to put all capped brood in top box of two box set up?


You could do theoretically , Yes. The thing is you have to be aware of is frame size. Over here in France i am running Dadants and if your on a Langsdroth, even the deeps arent as deep as out Dadant frames. This would mean your not getting enough nurse bees in to the hive ( or may not get enough as you might want). The whole idea is that you give them many many nurse bees, then some more. Theoretially your right and it can be done like that. You just might not get quite the response, acceptance and closed over cells as you want!
The whole process of queen rearing usually works on or around the getting bees to initiate the emergency response, only in our case (s) we take aways eggs and larvae too, so they cant do that. We give them our selected larvae when were ready. They have to take them, theres nothing else on offer!!!
There are many methods, they all basically come back to the same thing. How you interpret that set up and handling of the bees to become a hopelessly queen less colony, is really the art of rearing good cells. My main reason for doing this video apart from hopefully getting others to have a go, was to make the whole process understandable, complicated though it is, it gives people another view of the whole process, so they can hopefully understand the reasons that are behind other methods of queen rearing.
I will shortly be doing another video called "the cell builder, questions and answers" where i hope to address these issues you've raised and others. Good question!


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## Scott Gough

Plenty of honey said:


> I will shortly be doing another video called "the cell builder, questions and answers" where i hope to address these issues you've raised and others. Good question!


Please post a follow up link here when you do post that video. I am looking forward to it. Thanks!


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## Plenty of honey

Scott Gough said:


> Please post a follow up link here when you do post that video. I am looking forward to it. Thanks!


Here it is, i hope it may help if your new to cell building. I've tried to answer some of the most frequently asked questions posted on my you tube channel.

Best of luck for the fast approaching season,
Richard

https://youtu.be/yppRnZvn9oM


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## crgshhn

Richard, I just want to thank you for the wonderful videos you've made and the help you have provided in taking the time to answer questions and offer helpful guidance. I've watched your queen raising video at least 10 times to make sure I understood all the steps and details and then adjusted as needed for my hive setup as I talked about above. I also took your advice and put my grafting frames in two different finishers 24 hrs after putting them in the "big" cell starter the day of grafting (the big cell starter is one of the finishers after recombining it as in your video). Each grafting frame had 45 queen cell cups on them. I grafted on 4/21. I just looked at them and one has 29 cells being drawn out and the other 31 and they are very full of royal jelly. They each have a good full frame of fresh pollen next to them in their respective hives and I have kept sugar syrup on them since the day before I put the grafts/started cells in them. Here are a couple pics of how they look so far. Again, thank you for your help!


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