# smash and grab



## nostradamus (Sep 26, 2015)

In order to be able to run more colonies by my self I just thougt of something.. 
Now i have 300 hives in production brood boxes and supers are The same size.. I have 3 boxes for brood and 7-8 supers.. 

I Could probably manage 6-800 Hives by my self but with som hel in The extraction room.

Problem is storage and it's very high Labour cost here.

To the point, if I run 1500-2000 hives, in spring - put on one drawn super and one box with starterstrips/foundation/top bars, later adding 5 more empty boxes. If I have time I extract The box with drawn comb and give back a couple of times during the summer. In fall - I blow out the bees and cutting out all the honey in tanks on the truck, using a waxscrew in The honey house and leave the boxes out on top of the feeder box and inner cover.

Bee yards were there is a big flow like canola I'll use all drawn comb.


Conditions: Light flow from mid May to mid aug - clover, rasberry, milkweed, dandylion and heather. Av. 80-100 kg now, 12 colonies per yard, mid sweden.

Any input/thougts on this setup? 
-I calculate crop Will be 30-60 kg instead(No idea), but i have a much higher kg honey/hour. Plus the price of organic wax is high.
-The option to employ staff extract and run the operation conventionally, with the bees and everything in place I'ts not a huge step. 
-only 4 visits to the yards per year. 2 boxes - 5 boxes - harvesting, splitting, treatment, feeding - feeding, treatment. 

Anyone tried ?


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## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

its an interesting idea, thats for sure. I fI understand it your goal is a bit more wax and not haveing to worry about storage? Seems to me your harsh winter climate would make winter storage easy?


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## nostradamus (Sep 26, 2015)

I want to keep bees and produce honey not driving around in my truck with wooden boxes all day, I want to build supers, brood boxes and frames not barns, extraction house, loading decks.. a barn dos not yeald that many $$..

I don't have any buildings now exept for a small extraction room.. but i dont want to spend all my time there, and labour cost is around 32 usd per hour... . .


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Stop extracting, sell basswood section comb honey only.

Crazy Roland


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## babybee (Mar 23, 2012)

It's strange to offer Nostradamus any advice... hahahahahahaha! Sorry.


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## jbeshearse (Oct 7, 2009)

I sent you a private msg.


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

I think your idea has merit. Similar to another user here who starts with packages each spring, blows out all the bees for sale in fall, sells the wax and honey. I think you mean that you are over wintering hives, but harvesting all wax and honey, using a press to process. Sounds very interesting to me, for you in your location. It sounds as if it will do as you say, save on labour costs and less need for buildings, being able to keep more hives without hiring outside labour.


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## nostradamus (Sep 26, 2015)

Roland said:


> Stop extracting, sell basswood section comb honey only.
> 
> Crazy Roland


People dont buy comb honey here..


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## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)

Can't see the advantage unless you do all your honey that way. If you still extract the other honey, you still need the barn, and, and so on.

I have done fixed comb beekeeping for a decade and been pressing all my honey. Once I hit the 100 hives I swapped to frames. You get the double amount of honey. It sure is easier to press than to extract but as said, you only get half the honey. That is due to wax making, and of course you can extract several times a year. Before the bees war up a good portion of the honey in between flows.

Next year I will setup about 250 hives with fixed comb honey super only. There is a market for comb honey here, plus I am leasing hives to home and garden owners. I'll report, if you wish.


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## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)

To accelerate comb honey marketing, sell one of those comb honey holders for the breakfast table or buffet:









Photo credits: http://mobil.cafe-future.net/news/Frilich-drei-Neuheiten-fuers-Fruehjahr_32659.html


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## nostradamus (Sep 26, 2015)

BernhardHeuvel said:


> Can't see the advantage unless you do all your honey that way. If you still extract the other honey, you still need the barn, and, and so on.


I have storage for 1500-2000 supers, the floor is uneaven and i can't drive next to it so I have to carry them or pyll them on a small cart, so that a amount is no problem but 15k+ supers is..

Would appreciate a report! It's stated everywhere that it yeald 50% when they have to build all wax but I have'nt really seen/heard any real study or experience of Anyone Who tried it in scale.


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## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)

nostradamus said:


> I have'nt really seen/heard "Jam"-Sessionny real study or experience of Anyone Who tried it in scale.


I suspect there is a reason, why...


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## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)

I lease those hives, harvest pollen, use them for queen rearing and make comb honey. Only that way I generate enough value to make them economically interesting.


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## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

nostradamus said:


> Would appreciate a report! It's stated everywhere that it yeald 50% when they have to build all wax but I have'nt really seen/heard any real study or experience of Anyone Who tried it in scale.


There is a cost for the wax production, but its not as high as you think. the real problem is timing. After the spring swarm season, bees don't build wax very well at all. (yes they will but small amounts) The bees are quite capable of turning that process on and off, and once they turn it off, they will fill the broodnest long before drawing anymore comb. Basically they slow way down based on the amount of space they have. Thats the great thing with drawn comb, no need to wait for wax builders to get ahead. On some flows its absolutly critical.


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## nostradamus (Sep 26, 2015)

lazybhoney said:


> There is a cost for the wax production, but its not as high as you think. the real problem is timing. After the spring swarm season, bees don't build wax very well at all. (yes they will but small amounts) The bees are quite capable of turning that process on and off, and once they turn it off, they will fill the broodnest long before drawing anymore comb. Basically they slow way down based on the amount of space they have. Thats the great thing with drawn comb, no need to wait for wax builders to get ahead. On some flows its absolutly critical.


That's the point with the one or two boxes with drawn comb. And I don't have any problems with swarming(2-3%) they don't swarm even if I don't put supers on all summer...


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## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

nostradamus said:


> People dont buy comb honey here..


Start a trend. The 1st makes the big $$.


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## jbeshearse (Oct 7, 2009)

dsegrest said:


> Start a trend. The 1st makes the big $$.


All the honey I have seen in Sweden, and Europe overall, has been finely crystallized. Almost like the Spun, whipped, creamed in the U.S. I would imagine that leaving it in the comb for comb honey would end up as blocks


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## nostradamus (Sep 26, 2015)

jbeshearse said:


> All the honey I have seen in Sweden, and Europe overall, has been finely crystallized. Almost like the Spun, whipped, creamed in the U.S. I would imagine that leaving it in the comb for comb honey would end up as blocks


Yes . Only a couple of rare flowers here that gives honey that stays liquid. Bell heather and another one.. southern eu have acacia.


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