# Non-graft frame in progress



## jbraun (Nov 13, 2013)

Not to be picky beepro but wouldn't these cells be better placed on the frame opposite the pollen frame? Isn't the pollen frame outside of the broodnest?


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

I have been raising queens for the last 4 seasons.
Every year I find better method and process to grow these big fat cells. The result
is a big fat healthy well fed queen. Mating flight is another story.
The only responsibility of the foragers (Lauri's fly back method) and the nurse
bees are to feed these cells making them big and plump. Once you line up the pollen
frames with the cells the nurse bees on these frames will be closer to the cells to take care
of them. No other open broods other than these non-grafted plastic cells. Right there on the
spot fill up their tummy and feeding the cells. It is not just the pollen frames alone but the bee bread
frames with nectar and honey all together. Imagine a crowded nuc hive as the cell builder full of these fat nurse bees
feeding your cells. 
Many beekeepers only know one method of grafting with burr comb all over the cap cells. Using my method the cells
are clean to be move into the mating nucs after they are capped. They only know to use the closed loop method of raising
the cells. My method is an open hive with active foragers bringing in hive resources and supplement feed them the patty subs and honey water. Once you have use my method you will never go back to the traditional method again. Because
you will see some big fat well taken care of cells imaginable. These are breeder queens potential!
And making the non-graft frame is the first step in this process.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

After a few days I finally able to pull out the reusable silicone cups.
Let them harden for another day or 2 before going to the next step.
The solstice is upon us soon. I better hurry up to non-graft some queens.
Will keep you posted soon!


Reusable silicone cups:


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

The pic shows some cell cups on a piece of cardboard but I do not understand how you intend to get a queen to lay eggs in these cups.

Have you checked out the Jenter system which does pretty much what you want?


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## jbraun (Nov 13, 2013)

Well, you've got my attention but I'm sure I'm missing some steps. Do you use a grafting frame? Or do you insert your cell cups directly into a frame with closed brood on it? That's what I was thinking about doing. Thanks for sharing your method.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

I look at the Jenter system which is too expensive for raising a
few queens. The set up is too small and too many components to it. 
Mine is much more efficent and cost effective I think. To have the queen lay
directly into the plastic cups then pull out the silicone worker cells casing
so that the workers can deposit the RJ in the plastic cups. On the market here we
have 2 types of the silicone glue. One is the high temp. reddish color and the other
one is the clear silicone. Both will work for the casing once cured.

Yes, you are missing lots of steps in this process. It is a simple solution but with many
details too. So once the plastic cups are free from the silicone casing you can move
the cell cups onto a cell bar or directly onto a closed brood frame. This step will eliminate the grafting frame so I don't have to use one. The queen will be in an enclosed frame all lined up with these plastic cups so she can lay some eggs in the cells. My plan is to move the plastic cells on to the pollen frames with lots of workers to take care of these developing cells. This project will only work if the queen is not too picky to lay in the silicone casing into the green plastic cups.

On the pic, the green plastic cups are the ones to be fill up with the RJ once the silicone casing is removed. And the white color is the silicone casing worker cells already removed from the green plastic cups in the pile you see.  The next step is to make a frame that will hold all these cups and the queen inside using a QE cut to fit over the frame. Can you imagine what such a frame would be like?


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

An update:

So I spent an afternoon yesterday making the final version of the non-graft frame.
One side has the QE that I cut out for the bees to enter. In the back is a
#8 wire window screen to close everything up and for ventilation of the frame. 
To support the plastic cell cups on the frame I put in a small cell black plastic foundation on the back side. 
This frame is expandable in the future to house more plastic cell cups to get more queen cells. Though I don't need
100 q-cells being a small operation still. Right now I have 52 plastic cell cups in this frame for the queen to lay in. 
Ready to put the queen inside. Now only if I can find the elusive queen somehow.
Cannot find her anymore after spotting her a few times on different frames last night. If I have not squished this vsh queen then it is time to do a shake out over a QE to find her. This is a small nuc hive but growing strong everyday. 
I have 2 small baskets of the high temp reddish silicone mold and the clear silicone mold. The high temp mold has the bigger cell hole whereas the clear cell has the smaller cell hole. The clear silicone cell has a softer flexible texture than the firmer high temp cell. I wonder what color cell or cell size the queen prefer to lay in at 50/50 ratio.


Completed non-graft frame:


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

I see what you are trying to do I think, but what is the purpose of the silicone sleeve? I can't sort that one out. Albeit, I am not familiar with the Nicot/Jenter systems. Is it some form of reducer to emulate a worker cell?


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Nordak said:


> ....Is it some form of reducer to emulate a worker cell?



You got it right buddy!
Yes, it is a small worker cell hole in the center to trick the queen to lay the worker egg in it.
Without this worker cell sleeve the queen will only lay the drone eggs. I don't think I want the
drone eggs if I want to make the queen cells. The neat thing about this non-graft frame is that
it is expandable up to 500 cells or more at a time. Then just plug out the worker cell sleeve and 
use the plastic cups to make the queen cells in a queen less hive. Pretty neat isn't it?


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

Shows ingenuity, for certain. Is it still in the trial phase, and what is the diameter of the inner dowell you are implementing for the silicone mold? It appears you are using the exact same cell cups as myself. I like it.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

The silicone mold is made from the diameter of the green plastic cup.
It is that simple! No dowel needed. If you're like me overthinking it too much, it will take you 2
years to make it happen from concept to reality. Just because I tend to over think the simple things doesn't mean you
have to. My mind is too complicated I think sometimes. KIS!


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

I gotcha on where the sleeve meets the inner walls of the cup, but how do you make the impression in the silicone, or the worker sized cavity that leads to the cell bottom?


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

Ha Ha you and that pink foam


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Ahh, the million dollars question, eh?


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

beepro said:


> Ahh, the million dollars question, eh?


it wasn't a question.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Yes, Harley. These are the environmental friendly bio-degradable non-toxic chewy (flexible) foams.
Got them from a local environmental friendly production company. Well, I turn #13 into a question myself then.

The secret to making these worker cell holes is from the chalk like time indicator nail hole filler.
They are reusable too if you don't break them off while removing from the silicone mold.
Make a bunch of these from the worker comb frame. This is the only chalk that I know of that will
not react with the silicone gluing them together. They complement each others very well!

Nail filler chalk:


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

Disregard post. I see now, thanks.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

I just use whatever available local resources I can find.
Your area may have something better that you can use creatively.
When resources are limited the minds get creative!


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

beepro said:


> I just use whatever available local resources I can find.
> Your area may have something better that you can use creatively.
> When resources are limited the minds get creative!


Very true. I might give this a go. Thanks beepro for taking the time to post this. Looking forward to updates.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Right now a bee experiment is going on for the graft cell on the pollen/nectar
frames. The latest update is on that post already.
I can only run certain bee experiments through out the year because
of limited resources. Once that experiment is concluded I will give you an
update on the non-graft frame though I can simply put a laying queen in there to see.
But it would be a waste of bee resources because I don't want to make too many queen
cells right now. I'm sure the queen can lay up the 52 cells in a day.


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