# dissapointment.



## Cadence (Mar 31, 2014)

I don't think so. An opportunity may still present itself for learning from an experienced beekeeper, just stay open to suggestions and/or invitations to join someone working their hives. Sometimes a relatively new beekeeper may be more willing to help you start out since it is still fresh in their mind how hard it is to grasp all you need to learn. Good luck!


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## Bee Havin (Mar 1, 2017)

I have met some commercial guys that acted the same way. I was a bit put off at the time because I was no threat. I just settled on that's just the way it is, they have a lively hood to protect I guess. One made the statement" I don't want somebody knowing what I do." The fact that I was no direct threat is what got me. I guess it's like fishermen, most are pleasant and forth coming while others won't say what bait there using. Stay with it and you will find someone more generous with their time. I guess that's why we are here. Always good people here, with good intentions. 
BETTER LUCK TO COME!!!


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## Hillbilly tom (Apr 7, 2017)

Fair enough. It was just odd and kinda awkward when I put out the offer in a meeting and he literally grabned his wifes hand and shook his head at her. It was uncomfortable. Kinda like I was a lepper lol


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## Tim KS (May 9, 2014)

Hillbilly tom said:


> I am a newby who is planning ongetting first two hives in spring. So I set out to learn all I could ahead of time. Advice was join bee club read books ask questions of beeks in club etc. Did that. Offered to work for free doing grunt work for any beek at club who would teach me basics along the way. Nada not one taker. The two comercial beeks in club acted like I was trying to steal secrets or something even tho one guys wife was saying they deffinately needed a strong back at harcest before he shushed her.
> Did I commit some sort of faux pas when I offered to work for teaching instead of wages


I don't think you committed a grave sin by asking. Perhaps they just don't want you there to see how inept they are and how much they let bees take care of themselves.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

There may be other reasons than secrecy. When people ask me to come work to learn, I decline. I do explain it though. I’ve discovered that it takes me longer to finish most tasks when I am answering questions….more so with an inexperienced second set of hands. And while I don’t tell them, I’ve found myself waiting for way too long when they miss the agreed upon time. Some folks get it into their heads that if they are working for free….they can arrive when they please. So…there I sit with a truck loaded and ready….and when I’ve left to go work without them, they are offended. After all, they came all the way out to my place and were ‘only’ thirty minutes late. 
While you might be Mr (Ms) punctuality….lots of volunteers aren’t. 

Then…don’t overlook the liability. What if you pop a disk moving supers? Or have a reaction to a sting and need a run to the er. Of get bitten by a sopperhead? The possibilities are endless. 

Find a good beekeeping class….in my opinion.


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## DaisyNJ (Aug 3, 2015)

Hillbilly tom said:


> I am a newby who is planning ongetting first two hives in spring. So I set out to learn all I could ahead of time. Advice was join bee club read books ask questions of beeks in club etc. Did that. Offered to work for free doing grunt work for any beek at club who would teach me basics along the way. Nada not one taker. The two comercial beeks in club acted like I was trying to steal secrets or something even tho one guys wife was saying they deffinately needed a strong back at harcest before he shushed her.
> Did I commit some sort of faux pas when I offered to work for teaching instead of wages


What are your goals ? Going commercial, sideliner or just backyard hobby ? If you just want backyard hobby, ignore all nay-sayers, "local experts who look down on you", "newbee trashers" and get the hives. Bees are your best teachers. I find excellent help on this forum for FREE. ONE video of Michael Palmer and little practice on drones taught me how to mark queens, without all the drama and rear kissing I might have to do at the local club. Get the bees. You will be just fine. 

Oh, if you are discouraged by actions of one beekeeper, you got lot waiting with losing bees, wintering etc. Just Do It.


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## Hillbilly tom (Apr 7, 2017)

Fair enough mandan. I get the whole liability thing etc. It is just such a complete 180 from what the beginner bee books and many post on this forum lead me to expect to happen. The general advice seemed to be join a bee club they will help yoj and mentor you and they know what works in your area. Instead they seem distrustful and one.man is.openly hostile.to new bekeepers. To paraphrase he said everytime one of theses birkenstock wearing blankety blanks get a new bee hive it ends up spreading diseases.to his. The club pres cut him off and from what I understand the man is a tad growly by nature lol. Ps I dont own any birkenstocks


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## Thomas Frazier (Aug 25, 2015)

Things like that probably vary from club to club. Up here in far northern Illinois, we have the Northern Illinois Beekeepers Association. which has monthly meetings, yearly picnics with some open-hive demos, and one member who conducts yearly classes for a nominal fee. There are also classes at community colleges that can be found if you look in the right places.

There are a few commercial operators who attend, but AFAIK they don't offer a "labor in exchange for mentoring" deal - most likely it simply doesn't fit their business model.

So far you are dong everything right - reading, asking, listening. Next step is to jump in with both feet. Buy your woodenware and get ready for spring. If you can do two hives, so much the better. Does your club do a group buy of package bees? That's always a fun day.

Cheers,


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## Hillbilly tom (Apr 7, 2017)

Daisy nj I intend to bee a backyard hobbiest. I make mead. Lots of mead. Enough mead that my dr would have a fit if I was honest bout how much was for private use. The honey to do that is expensive. Also I have a small orchard that I would like polinators for.


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## Hillbilly tom (Apr 7, 2017)

Yes they do a group buy from hardemans. They take money in nov. Planned on two packages


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## Hillbilly tom (Apr 7, 2017)

Hsy just figured out the reply function worked yay


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## DaisyNJ (Aug 3, 2015)

Hillbilly tom said:


> Fair enough mandan. I get the whole liability thing etc. It is just such a complete 180 from what the beginner bee books and many post on this forum lead me to expect to happen. The general advice seemed to be join a bee club they will help yoj and mentor you and they know what works in your area. Instead they seem distrustful and one.man is.openly hostile.to new bekeepers. *To paraphrase he said everytime one of theses birkenstock wearing blankety blanks get a new bee hive it ends up spreading diseases.to his. * The club pres cut him off and from what I understand the man is a tad growly by nature lol. Ps I dont own any birkenstocks


Thats nothing compared to daily drama at the local gym. Old women fighting daily to claim "their" yoga spot . Keep Calm and Carry On.


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## Hillbilly tom (Apr 7, 2017)

Wow lol. Yoga hostility. Dont that beat all lll


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## cbay (Mar 27, 2017)

Started this year and didn't join a club or get a mentor. So far so goood. This site and other internet sources are worth their weight in gold, just use your better judgement.
Impressed with the willingness of some on here to take the time to answer what i see now as very common questions that i could have found had i looked harder...


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

You’ll probably have better luck with a small group of hobby beekeepers. Around here there are several clubs that have active mentoring programs. You won’t learn much from folks who’re trying to make a living. If you rode with me every day for the next month about all you’d learn is how to pull honey supers.


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## Cadence (Mar 31, 2014)

beemandan said:


> And while I don’t tell them, I’ve found myself waiting for way too long when they miss the agreed upon time. Some folks get it into their heads that if they are working for free….they can arrive when they please. So…there I sit with a truck loaded and ready….and when I’ve left to go work without them, they are offended. After all, they came all the way out to my place and were ‘only’ thirty minutes late.
> While you might be Mr (Ms) punctuality….lots of volunteers aren’t.
> .


:thumbsup:


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## psm1212 (Feb 9, 2016)

Hillbilly tom said:


> Daisy nj I intend to bee a backyard hobbiest. I make mead. Lots of mead. Enough mead that my dr would have a fit if I was honest bout how much was for private use. The honey to do that is expensive. Also I have a small orchard that I would like polinators for.


Now that is a great idea for a presentation that I would like to see at a local bee club. I would love to learn how to make mead from an experienced mead-maker. Drop an email to the club president and volunteer a 15 minute intro to Mead Making. You might get the old foggies to lighten up a little if they understand your "angle" and that you are no threat to them.


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## Nhaupt2 (May 31, 2016)

if you think your going to save money on the honey you need for mead by becoming a beekeeper you are in I for a rude awakening! the only profitable backyard keepers I know are the ones who don't track the money so well! still worth do I g but not for savings.


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## psm1212 (Feb 9, 2016)

Nhaupt2 said:


> if you think your going to save money on the honey you need for mead by becoming a beekeeper you are in I for a rude awakening! the only profitable backyard keepers I know are the ones who don't track the money so well! still worth do I g but not for savings.


True. But I think it would be pretty darn cool to say you made mead from your own honey!


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

I dunno if you will save any money on honey by keeping your own bees, but it may pay off depending how your flows are.


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## msl (Sep 6, 2016)

I do fireworks displays, I am constantly bombarded with offers of help, beemandan and psm1212 make good points, maby hang with the club for a year so people get to know you. For workers comp and ATF reason all my staff are fully payed employees.

I can't find it, but some were Mike Plamer has a great story about "help"


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

When I started I read through almost 2 year of posts here. Lots of good infos if
you just read up on the sticky posts to get an idea. Because beekeeping is all local you
still need to learn how to deal with the bees. Of course the more you understand about them
the better you're able to take care of them. The immediate topics you need to know are feeding, swarm
control, and mite management. To treat or not is another highly debatable topic.


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## ShrekVa (Jan 13, 2011)

I'm sure a lot of these guys get the whole i'm new teach me very often. If they are commercial then that is their job and they will not have time for all of the questions. Imagine how many times they've been through that already to find the person doesn't like getting stung, getting hot, or working. I think a seasoned hobbyist mentor would better suit your needs as a beginner. Gain skills that will allow you to be an asset rather than a hindrance and they would more than likely take you on.


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## merdoc (May 4, 2010)

Get your bees have fun.Some people want you to set back and watch them.You tube has been a great help to me and beesource.


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## Amiaji (Jun 8, 2017)

psm1212 said:


> True. But I think it would be pretty darn cool to say you made mead from your own honey!


:thumbsup:

That is one of my goals as a new beekeeper. Eventually I will have mead made from my own honey.


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

I also decline (as politely as I can, which I hope is polite enough not to leave confusion or hurt feelings) the offer from new beekeepers to help in my yard. It just is more trouble than it's worth in terms of actual help. Plus new beekeepers are almost always very hard on bees - my bees suffered through my own learning curve, so I think they've earned a break.

But I do offer visits to see my bees to new, and prospective, beekeepers as often as I have time for. That way it's tightly scheduled and controlled, and in general only I do the manipulations. It's basically just a show and tell, which I let evolve until I see the new beekeeper has had enough, which can be more or less exposure. (Occasionally a would-be new beekeeper comes and finds that just _standing_ around in a whole lotta flying bugs completely unnerves them. Good to find that out before your package order arrives!)

Even before EFB closed my apiary to visitors, I had decided to reduce the number of visits, though. 

I'll answer questions until the cows comes home. I'll even go visit your yard, occasionally. But my yard is where I recharge and reconnect to my enjoyment and wonder in beekeeping. I don't want to lose that.

Nancy


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

Trying to imagine me showing a new beek how to do anything bee. 

Showing someone how to do even the simplest beekeeping task would most likely seem like Captain Bligh micromanaging his crew just before the mutiny. 

Probably should let people figure it out on their own or by watching youtube videos.

My own mentor was very wishy-washy about helping with timely decisions on subjects that I was in the heat of battle with but was real handy about telling me what I'd done wrong after the fact.


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## Thomas Frazier (Aug 25, 2015)

enjambres said:


> (Occasionally a would-be new beekeeper comes and finds that just _standing_ around in a whole lotta flying bugs completely unnerves them. Good to find that out before your package order arrives!)


I've told this before, but being inside a swarm of bees is what got me into the hobby. It was, and still is, a real rush. A few weeks later, as wife and I were talking about getting bees, I visited the local honey store and told the lady about our plans. "Follow me," she said, and walked me out the back to where she had three hives in the yard. She casually pulled the cover off one and stood back. As I peered in and watched all the comings and goings, I realized she was testing me. As in, did I shy away or flee in terror. Later it also occurred to me that she took a real risk - had I been stung, and suffered a bad reaction, she could have been liable. 

Anyway, as with many hobbies and activities, having a mentor is invaluable. But in the end, you always have to teach yourself. Leading a horse to water and all that.

Cheers,


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## Arbol (Apr 28, 2017)

I get requests by a hundred different people a month at the market, I straight up tell them NO.
I get phone calls and emails all the time begging for free bees, offers of free work, and more.
Caution to the Wind.
I refuse to trust anyone outside my family and inner circle.
You come and say teach me all you know..lol
you will always get the same reaction around the World

yeah right, neophyte.


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## Tim KS (May 9, 2014)

cbay said:


> Started this year and didn't join a club or get a mentor. So far so goood. This site and other internet sources are worth their weight in gold, just use your better judgement.
> Impressed with the willingness of some on here to take the time to answer what i see now as very common questions that i could have found had i looked harder...


That's me too ^^^. Learning by doing was the best way for me too. Everyone makes mistakes sometimes, but you'll learn. Read these pages enough and you'll learn who you can trust for good info and who you can't.


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## Hillbilly tom (Apr 7, 2017)

psm1212 said:


> True. But I think it would be pretty darn cool to say you made mead from your own honey!


Yup thats kinda the angle. And a hobby for when retirement gets here


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## Hillbilly tom (Apr 7, 2017)

Ok I have read thru posts and seems that consensus is my expectations on finding some instruction and experience with bees was unrealistic.
Fair enough.


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## MaynerdOllie (May 20, 2017)

I offered to help a commercial beek, trade labor for lessons, and he responded with fees he has for a beekeeping walk through. I thought he was rude, at first, then I realized how much rime he would loose talking, pointing, explaining, long story short he simply didn't have the time to invest into my learning. I understand now why he was like that but I was put off at first.


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## MaynerdOllie (May 20, 2017)

msl said:


> I do fireworks displays, I am constantly bombarded with offers of help, beemandan and psm1212 make good points, maby hang with the club for a year so people get to know you. For workers comp and ATF reason all my staff are fully payed employees.
> 
> I can't find it, but some were Mike Plamer has a great story about "help"


This one maybe.



Michael Palmer said:


> So, I'm always short on help. I'll hire just about anyone. And I've had all kinds.
> 
> The year was 2000, referred to by some at the time as Y2K. I was trying to do harvest alone...700 colonies. Anybody willing to carry full supers to the truck looked good, and got the job. There was this one guy, Jamie. Nice enough: Dyslexic as could be, but not a drunk or a drug addict. Played classical piano as a teenager. Interesting enough to talk to, he came from the same area of the Neversink River valley in New York State that my ancestors settled, early in the eighteenth century. Bit of a kook Jamie was. Every time we drove past a cemetery, he'd hold up his hand, putting it down after we had passed by. A few times of that, and I gave him a look, as if to say, “What gives”?
> 
> ...


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## tnmtn (May 27, 2016)

cbay said:


> Started this year and didn't join a club or get a mentor. So far so goood. This site and other internet sources are worth their weight in gold, just use your better judgement.
> Impressed with the willingness of some on here to take the time to answer what i see now as very common questions that i could have found had i looked harder...


+1


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## tnmtn (May 27, 2016)

When I started last year I attended a class. At the end I asked, what are the 3 most important things a new beekeeper needs to know? I got a lot of answers but the one everyone agreed on was good management. Stay in your hives regularly, learn what you are looking at and ask on here about anything you are not sure of. That way you catch any problems early while they can still be (mostly) fixed. The number one thing I see go wrong on this forum is that people ignore the bees most of the summer then complain that they found them dead or dying and don't know why.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Got one guy turned you down and seem to have let that scar you. Maybe he was grumpy some people are, maybe he just didn't need the hassle.

As to a beekeeper thinking he has secrets that he doesn't want anyone else to learn, I would say he needs to get over himself. Invariably it turns out those people don't have any special secret knowledge, they just have a high opinion of themselves.

I get continuous requests from people wanting to work with me for free, there is just no way I could accomodate them all, couldn't be done. Right now there are 3 people who come out with me fairly regularly, that's enough. And yes, some folks get offended, unfortunately nothing I can do about that. They all think they are the only ones who ever asked. One of those people has been hanging with me for 3 years now, what makes it work is she is very fit, does work hard, and understands that time is important she will meet me at whatever time I say, at whatever place. Not all free workers have those skills, and lack of them can make the experience rather painful.

What I can say is that if you do manage to get to work with a commercial beekeeper the experience will be invaluable, although the grumpy guy at the club may be the wrong fit. I can say this from personal experience as I was a hobby beekeeper for 3 years before I took a job with a commercial beekeeper. What I learned just in the first week was probably more than I had learned in the 3 hobby years, not the least of those how to work hives quickly and effectively.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Goto you tube and watch a bunch of bee vids on your favorite topics. Then start
asking questions here if you don't understand. I used to open the backyard hives 3
times a day to learn about them when I started. So much that the bees just staring at me all tired about it.
Now I only open the hives when checking on the mites and doing little bees experiment. Soon what you see on the you tube vids and your own hands on hives inspection will fused together for the experience and knowledge. Begin with Michael Palmer's sustainable apiary and his bees channel.


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## Sour Kraut (Jun 17, 2012)

Maybe he doesn;t want anyone to see how BAD his set-up is

Avoid this guy and his ideas like the plague, would be my choice.


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## Bee Havin (Mar 1, 2017)

I had a guy ask me, why I don't have a lot more hives than I do? His idea was to have a bunch of hives and make a profit off them and make some money while doing it. I mentored him this spring and gave him 2 nucs to get him started along with a package he bought from somebody. I had not heard from him in 2 months even after I had called him a couple of times. I ran into him today and he had not been in this hive for over a month, despite noticing unusual behavior on the hives when he walked by. He is now a Bee haver not a keeper. So what did I waste? Time? Bees? Money?
Will I do it again? YEP!!!


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## Hillbilly tom (Apr 7, 2017)

Oldtimer said:


> Got one guy turned you down and seem to have let that scar you. Maybe he was grumpy some people are, maybe he just didn't need the hassle.
> 
> As to a beekeeper thinking he has secrets that he doesn't want anyone else to learn, I would say he needs to get over himself. Invariably it turns out those people don't have any special secret knowledge, they just have a high opinion of themselves.
> 
> ...


It isnt just one person tho I can see why younwould think that from my description. My confusion was because everything I had read said join a bee club to find mentor and learn etc. At least in this club that doesnot seem to be how it works. From what I can tell from the last six months of meetings new beeks can ask questions of a couple of the experienced guys but the only person willing to mentor has her hands full with their junior bee keeper program.
And then yes there is the guy who is openly hostile to newbeekeepers who I now think od as the birkenstock **** hole lol


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

OK, well hang here with us


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## roddo27846 (Apr 10, 2017)

I was lucky enough to help a commercial beekeeper one day. What did I see? Unethical behavior, rough treatment of bees, and illegal products applied inside the hive. I don't buy honey with his name on it anymore.


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## DanielD (Jul 21, 2012)

I own a small business and work alone, and I can only conclude that if someone asked me to let them help me for free so they can learn some things, I know it wouldn't be free because it would ultimatley cost me time, which is money. Even to take on an employee would probably have a cost for a while till they had some training time. I have had 'helpers' wanting to learn something, and I was glad to give them the experience, but they generally don't come out ahead in the short term. A beekeeper lets you help him, you cost him money, then when you learn a little something, you're done and go off and do your own. He sees no gain at all for himself, maybe competition from you after you make a few extra gallons and want to sell it locally. Not to mention all the possible questions all day long that would take a time to answer. Maybe he also has a concern that a wannabe beekeeper that has a small dangerous amount of knowledge might take matters into his own hands and 'fix' something that isn't broke, or used the wrong fix. A serious hobby guy who just likes the bees would be your best bet.


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## Hops Brewster (Jun 17, 2014)

^^ good points daniel

When I first started out, I went to a meeting of the local club. I got curious about a certain point they were discussing, and I asked a specific question. The answer I got was to buy a $$$ class and some $$$ equipment to learn the answer for myself. And not in a friendly, encouraging fashion, either, but more of a demand. I have not been back to that club.

I've since learned that many commercial and sideliner beeks tend to keep their cards close to the vest. Like any business, they have proprietary methods (so they think) and wish to keep their "trade secrets" secret. And as mentioned before, it costs them money to take on "free" labor. Not to mention, even a hobbyist can be competition, even if only in small measure.

I have no menotr. I tend to associate with the small hobbyists now, like myself. we tend to share information and techniques, even if we do keep a few trade secrets to ourselves. Sort of like the way BS operates.


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## Haveuseen1? (Jun 21, 2017)

Maybe it is just location. When my son started earlier this year he contacted the local club and they were very responsive. Even referred him to a beekeeper in another club for his bees. Once we got his bees, the original club followed up ( on their own ) to see if we got the bees and to see if we had any questions. We then met two different guys selling honey at local farmers markets, both were very open to having my son come visit their hives, one even emailing to let us know what weekends he would be working his hives. The guy we got our bees from a month later emailed to let us know about a beekeeping symposium that was coming up and we attended it ( which was wonderful ) and he came over and followed up and had a number of questions/answers for us. Between the local guys, books, youtube, Beesource, and the Symposium we have had far more information and contacts than I ever expected. We were quite shocked at the availability of everyone so far. So far all of the folks my son has reached out to have gone above and beyond what I ever expected to help him, encourage him, and get him deeper involved in the hobby.


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## Fuzzymiss9 (Jan 8, 2015)

that's unfortunate. When I got started, I took the class of the local bee club. In fact, I joined them before I had even bought a thing, and started going to meetings. It was very uncomfortable, but I figured the best way to get plugged in was to volunteer for something, so I do the newsletter now. I think because i was willing to step up and help, I must have been seen as 'alright'. I have a mentor now that has worked my hives, and will answer any questions I have. I also attend club meetings and regularly support the $$ side of the club too. (This weekend we have a Fair and will be selling hive products -I'm volunteering some time at the sellers counter). We have a mix of hobbyists and commercial beeks, people with backyards and whole farms so quite a diverse crew. There are some younger people who have started a technical beekeeping group and older mentors who run workshops. People are always happy to answer questions, maybe they see it as helping the bees in the long run?


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## Fuzzymiss9 (Jan 8, 2015)

that's unfortunate. When I got started, I took the class of the local bee club. In fact, I joined them before I had even bought a thing, and started going to meetings. It was very uncomfortable, but I figured the best way to get plugged in was to volunteer for something, so I do the newsletter now. I think because i was willing to step up and help, I must have been seen as 'alright'. I have a mentor now that has worked my hives, and will answer any questions I have. I also attend club meetings and regularly support the $$ side of the club too. (This weekend we have a Fair and will be selling hive products -I'm volunteering some time at the sellers counter). We have a mix of hobbyists and commercial beeks, people with backyards and whole farms so quite a diverse crew. There are some younger people who have started a technical beekeeping group and older mentors who run workshops. People are always happy to answer questions, maybe they see it as helping the bees in the long run?


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

What is a technical beekeeping group?


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