# New igloo disposable ice chest as a swarm trap?



## adammccoy (May 1, 2016)

I saw an add for this new disposable ice chest that is supposed to be an alternative to styrofoam. Looks an awful lot like the swarm traps you can buy, but better suited for some top bars and cheaper
Like the swarm traps you can buy the volume is about comparable to a nuc, but I suppose you could connect 2 together if you want a large trap.

Can only buy from REI right now, but price is only $10 so pretty cheap. I am tempted to get one, rub the inside with bees wax, and then see if I can fit an old comb from my top bar hive in there and add some lemon grass or an attractant. Of course if I did the same with some plastic pots it can work too. Location, location location.
I just figured it looked like similar material to the commercial trap but cheaper and a more convenient shape.

https://www.rei.com/product/154999/...-_-153590-_-191322-_-NA&avad=191322_f15c67631


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

adammccoy said:


> Like the swarm traps you can buy the volume is about comparable to a nuc, but I suppose you could connect 2 together if you want a large trap.


Too small (even if doubled).
*Gear Capacity (L) - 11.36 liters*


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## Jtcmedic (Apr 7, 2017)

https://shop.vericoolpackaging.com/
Check this out


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Jtcmedic said:


> https://shop.vericoolpackaging.com/
> Check this out


Hmm..
This one being in ~40L range may actually work (can hold water for 30 days - that is tough material).
One issue - the Lang frames will not fit.
But - compact frames may just work - another reason to look into compact frame hives.
For ~$8 apiece maybe worth practical testing out.
Thanks for sharing!


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## adammccoy (May 1, 2016)

Jtcmedic said:


> https://shop.vericoolpackaging.com/
> Check this out


That looks like a better size, and the price is even a little lower, at least before you calculate shipping. Not sure what the dimensions are, but that rim might hold a top bar or frame. Thanks for the link. I might have to buy one (or three) to see.


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## adammccoy (May 1, 2016)

Note: shipping is an addition $9 for 1 and $12 for the pack of three so that does change the price quite a bit.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Do keep in mind - computer boxes can be had for free and work just as well and offer many benefits over coolers.
I ran 5-6 of these one season (with 0% success, to be noted).
The computer boxes were wrapped and held really well through the summer.
I also kept nucs in computer boxes one season and did fine (had no equipment).

Not doing again though (just because well used and primed hives work best and I have plenty on hand now to waste my time on paper-based traps).

But if going for these coolers, computer boxes then to be considered as well. 
I'd prefer computer boxes over coolers if to do this.


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## adammccoy (May 1, 2016)

My thoughts were:
1) already waterproof so a bit more resistant to weather
2) has an integrated rim that can (might?) support bars. 
3) it looks a little more like it is something real. If I am sticking these in a neighborhood to get a swarm that is high up in a tree it makes everyone feel better if it isn't 2 black plastic nursery pots wired together (or a computer box). With some propolis rubbed inside and LGO the plastic pots can work, but they look home made and are not a container they can stay in for long.

I have both Lang and top bar hives and like using top bar combs in trap because I can put that into a top bar hive OR into a Lang box. My top bars are a tad shorter than a lang box, but I have strips of wood the length of the Lang box that can be screwed into the top and then they fit. Same trick could be used if the length of these are not spot on.

Unlike you, I never have extra boxes on hand. Every time I have extra boxes it makes me want to get more bees. 

Even if my wife makes me pass the hive on to someone else!

That said, there is always a lot to be said for free, and your computer boxes look like great options. I am sure someone will benefit from seeing how you rigged yours up.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

adammccoy said:


> My thoughts were:............


Sure thing.
Give it a test run and report back!
For sure, 40L, water-proof boxes for $7-8 a piece make it really easy to rig up few traps (when in a pinch).

One good thing about paper-based traps - they soak up propolis tincture/LGO really well and give the smell off over time, for the bating.

Not much to lose; everything to gain.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

You will waste time and money on a funky box AND then need to spend time and money on an actual bee box to put your catch into. Your best value is to make traps out of real bee boxes and be said and done in one step and investment.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

odfrank said:


> You will waste time and money on a funky box AND then need to spend time and money on an actual bee box to put your catch into. Your best value is to make traps out of real bee boxes and be said and done in one step and investment.


Well, if you have empty *used hives* - sure. 
Use them - a no-brainer.

But if no used boxes are available, why buy/build 10 full hive boxes so to only catch 1-3 swarms into them (or nothing at all)?

Brand new wooden hive box is no different from brand new cardboard box - both are not ideal because they are NOT used yet.
Might as well go the easiest/cheapest/fastest way and do cardboard.
Let us not forget - not everyone one has stacks and stacks of old, used hive boxes.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Price of this funky box: $10
Cost of budget box from Mann Lake...$14. This proposed trap is DISPOSABLE. It will only last a few years. Time and money wasted. A real beebox will last decades. 
I went through the whole funky bait hive phase years ago. Do a search here on Beesource. Frozen fish shipping crates, wine crates.....all a waste of my valuable time. All of you can waste your time also. I warned you. Front boxes left and right are my beebox traps:





GregV said:


> Well, if you have empty *used hives* - sure.
> Use them - a no-brainer.
> 
> But if no used boxes are available, why buy/build 10 full hive boxes so to only catch 1-3 swarms into them (or nothing at all)?
> ...


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

odfrank said:


> Cost of budget box from Mann Lake...$14.


You mean this?

https://www.mannlakeltd.com/shop-al...t-24-45-cm-unassembled-hive-body-budget-grade

If yes, each box still requires more parts and work/tools to assemble. 
Pretty quickly your $14 turns into more and time spent.

If really, seriously looking at this as a long-term swarm trapping investment, I'd be hunting for used equipment instead of *any of these paper or wood items.*

There is so much used equipment to be had for near nothing - that is the real way to go (the best long term investment for trapping).
But takes time and some "fishing" and thinking ahead.
Since the last season, I got myself so many used boxes in the back yard for pennies - neighbors are probably hating me for trashing their views.


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## adammccoy (May 1, 2016)

Thanks for all the input. I will consider myself warned odFrank. Sometimes you have to figure out HOW you want to waste your time and this doesn't seem the worst way (yet). 
Although if you have any extra boxes you want to sell for pennies, I drive by San Mateo every few weeks. 

I do have a new box that I will be assembling this weekend, but boxes have a tendency to become hives and then you are out of empty boxes again.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

adammccoy said:


> Thanks for all the input. I will consider myself warned odFrank. Sometimes you have to figure out HOW you want to waste your time and this doesn't seem the worst way (yet).
> Although if you have any extra boxes you want to sell for pennies, I drive by San Mateo every few weeks.
> 
> I do have a new box that I will be assembling this weekend, but boxes have a tendency to become hives and then you are out of empty boxes again.



Those paper-based ice chest should have one huge advantage - storage optimization off-season - they should be stack-able, if designed correctly (to be sure - I only assume so).
If to be used as 100% in-season traps only, these are great, just for the efficient storage in cases where space is tight.
Like so:

https://www.dadant.com/catalog/queen-rearing-nuc-boxes-lures/refubees-swarm-trap-m01997


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

adammccoy said:


> Although if you have any extra boxes you want to sell for pennies, I drive by San Mateo every few weeks.


There are hundreds of piles of empty boxes all across California. 
Here is one in Linden:

https://stockton.craigslist.org/grd/d/linden-10-frame-bee-boxes-with-frames/6881714066.html


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

odfrank said:


> There are hundreds of piles of empty boxes all across California.
> Here is one in Linden:
> 
> https://stockton.craigslist.org/grd/d/linden-10-frame-bee-boxes-with-frames/6881714066.html


Yep.
This is exactly what serious trappers should be looking for.
Last year I was rummaging through a sell-out for the worst possible, the most used boxes.
The seller could not understand why I needed the junk.

OK, I am not serious enough to be buying at these volumes - "50 box minimum" (https://stockton.craigslist.org/grd/d/linden-10-frame-bee-boxes-with-frames/6881714066.html.)


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## adammccoy (May 1, 2016)

I figured I started this thread so I should invest in testing it out.
I ordered one of the 42 L "Ohana" coolers today. I will try to take some pictures once it arrives and document what mods I make to the box if it appears that it will work. Otherwise, my next door neighbor probably gets it for his boat and maybe it comes back with enough fish for me. 

For the record, I do think there are used boxes out there that do have the advantage of not having to transfer the swarm out later, but as I said before, in my hands, I think boxes will just become more hives which has both advantages and disadvantages.

The expected benefits of these over used deeps is they should be stackable (if they last long enough to go multiple seasons), and light weight which is good if you are sticking them up in trees, but look a little nicer than computer boxes. 
They only cost $8 (more than a computer box, but less than a deep), but shipping is another $10 so if you are buying 1 at a time it isn't so cheap any more.
Is it worth it? We shall see. So far the smart money seems to be on No, but I still kind of like the idea and so will give them a try.
At least the price is still less than the swarm traps you can buy from Mann lake, and the size is better so ahead on that front.


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## Jtcmedic (Apr 7, 2017)

I will be watching glad your ordering


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## larrypeterson (Aug 22, 2015)

If I may,
I have made several"killer swarm traps" out of pressed paper planter containers and one Ice chest. The problem with those odd traps is when you get a swarm, it is a mess to open them and transfer the contents into a box with frames. The new comb with eggs, larva, and pollen really should be transfered into the box to help keep the swarm from leaving. The comb is super soft and is difficult to put into a frame. You can shake the bees into the box and hope you get at least one queen. The "gobbed up mess keeps one from putting in all the full sized frames or follower boards. I am now using 5 frame "Nuc boxes". The swarm are already on the frames and you have the option to move the frames into a housing box or to turn the "Nuc-box" into their permanent home. I am not trying to convince anybody about this way, I am just sharing my sad experience with making a mess and having to work on cleaning it up for several weeks after the capture. I wish you well!


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## adammccoy (May 1, 2016)

GregV and odfrank win.

The cardboard ice chest was close to the right size to take top bars, but not quite the right size. I went ahead and did the work to turn it into a pretty nice swarm hive, but it took enough modification that I could have worked from a computer box. It did turn out lighter than a standard deep. Weighed in at 7.1 pounds, and probably most of that was my top bars. You could easily use smaller top bars, but I modified these from ones I already had on hand.

A standard frame didn't quite fit.







The top bars almost fit, but were just a little too long and needed to be shortened to fit. My top bars are designed to fit the top bar hive, but also are the length and width of a standard frame so I can put them in a Lang box. Once I cut them down until they fit in the swarm hive, they were just long enough to still catch the lip on the lang box. They didn't catch the lip on the top bar hive well, and could slide over enough to fall in. I decided to go with a different approach. I cut them about 1/4 of an inch shorter than necessary to fit the swarm hive. This was short enough to fit entirely inside the Lang box. I will put another strip of wood on top when I remove them from the swarm hive that acts like the tag on a standard Lang frame. That way they fit in the swarm hive now, but I can transfer them to a lang box later once there is comb on them.














Here is what the top bar will look like with the extra strip attached so it fits a lang box


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## adammccoy (May 1, 2016)

The middle section was missing the lip, so I connected a set of 4 top bars together to span the gap.








At the ends, the shape of the sides left some gaps, so I cut some scrap wood to cover those.









Then the lid that came with it goes on top of that. The lid is made so it is reversible, but with the flat side up it fits into the cooler. The top bars block that. Flipped over, it fits over the top bars, but not the drink holders are facing up. This thing is supposed to be water proof, but those seem like rain collectors to me. I live in California though, so we are about done with rain for the year.

I drilled a hole in the side as an entrance and cut a block of wood to fit the side. I used two bolts secured to the cardboard with nuts, and then wingnuts to go after the block of wood. The bottom one lets me keep the wood attached while it is in use so it doesn't get lost. A little harder than rotating a disk to close the entrance on a box, but not too bad.







and here is the closed 








I painted the inside with bees wax. I put a few drops of LGO, then waxed over that for scent. I also put a strap around it and through the lid. That seemed to secure the lid sufficiently well, but I put two big binder clips on the side of the lid just in case.
I tried securing it to a branch by strapping it above the branch








it is also light enough that securing it below the branch can work too.

All in all, it still turned out pretty nice, and I do think it will work well to transfer these bars with comb to either the TBH or Lang hive once the swarm is ready to move to a new home. Now all I need are bees!

We are pretty much out of the prime swarm month by now, but still plenty of time to catch some.


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## adammccoy (May 1, 2016)

Two pics I couldn't fit in the previous post.
Here is a picture with the lid on








and what it looks like hanging from a branch


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

adammccoy said:


> GregV and odfrank win...



Thanks for sharing!
Do report how it turns out.
Fingers crossed for you.

PS: I have to say I never got any swarms into my computer boxes (I ran 5 of these one season); 
I know people caught into cardboard, but I did not;
so here it is... 
well used equipment is still the best bet.


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