# Telling larvae apart shb vs moth



## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

They were small and I didn't see any wax moths. I counted 16, ranging from 3/8 ths of an inch long to 3/4 of an inch long on the hood of my chevy where I set the bottom board in the sun to kill them off. There was brown waste matter, dry, looked like dry compost?, in the bottom board as well, they were hiding in it. Is there an easy way to check sun-cooked larvae to id them? Right now I have 16 candidates. I can move them to a dish and stick in frig when I open the hood of the chevy in 10 minutes or less.....


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## wltwine (Oct 13, 2009)

Wax moth are large Like your describing and shb are smaller almost like fly maggots. What your describing are wax moths.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

wltwine said:


> Wax moth are large Like your describing and shb are smaller almost like fly maggots. What your describing are wax moths.


So aside from having moved hive out of shade, feeding bees and keeping them healthy, how do I defend against wax moth?


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

You should take a look at this thread: Xentari


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## wltwine (Oct 13, 2009)

Gypsi said:


> So aside from having moved hive out of shade, feeding bees and keeping them healthy, how do I defend against wax moth?


A strong hive is the only way I know to defend against wax moth or shb, I would think if your seeing larva in the hive it's probably not good. I don't mean to sound like a downer but I just lost my hive of three years in about 3 weeks to wax moth and shb, their is a lot of seasoned bee keepers here it would be nice to hear their input or ideas on what you can do.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

I googled and found this thread, when I was id'ing worms, and yes, they are wax moth.
http://www.beeworks.com/informationcentre/wax_moth.html

And I know how the adult moths are getting in - the beatup hive I got from my local beek has openings at the bottom corners large enough to put my finger thru. Plus I had the lid tipped up on twigs until I got my screened ventilation top on. I'm changing the deep in a couple of hours, checking and moving the frames into the dadant body I just assembled and painted. I saw zero webs, zero adult moths in that hive. My bees are holding them off at least for now, if I close the back doors I may not lose this hive. So I'm closing doors. (lucky I developed bee fever and ordered that deep a week ago...) Wish me luck.


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## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

Strong hives are good and reduced entrance, just as any intruder - robbing, small hive beetles, wax moths, etc. Larva that are the same size can be identified by the number of legs and prolegs. August American Bee Journal, Volume 151, No. 8 has great pictures and explanations on page 770. "Wax moth larvae have 5 pairs of fleshy prolegs in addition to the 3 pairs of legs on the thorax that are not found on SHB larvae. The SHB has a pair of spiny cerci on the top of each body segment (except the head and first segment) that wax moth larvae don't have."


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

Maybe read about a bio-weapon which is very effective against wax moth larvae, at the Xentari thread.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

The simple way is that SHB larvae slime the place. Wax moth larvae web the place. Spikes are the next difference. SHB larve have spikes. Size is not a good indicater because all of them start out small and there are two sizes of wax moths, large and small.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beespests.htm#waxmoths
http://www.bushfarms.com/beeswaxmoths.htm


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

Country Rubes Screened bottom board just paid for itself. 5 adult shb stuck in the olive oil sticky I put on this morning. Zero larva of any kind visible on the frames, 2 moths trying to get in the bottom of the Country Rube, I managed to squish one. In moving the deep frames to the new deep I didn't do the comb much good, but I daresay the bees will seal things up. Did not see the queen. Appear to have closed worker brood, center 4 frames of the deep were glued together with honey comb connecting the brood combs. My suit, gloves and cowboy boots also paid for themselves. I didn't get stung.... My smoker worked for at least 45 seconds. Sprinkling bees with 1:1 sugar water and a teaspoon of HBH per quart probably didn't hurt any. Hope they don't get robbed. Don't think they will, very diligent guard bees.... The hive deep body was pretty well packed. A few workers and I think a drone were up in the super. Can he get out thru a queen excluder? (put it back in, I would so like a little honey for my effort...)

PS: no webs, no slime. I am so glad I changed the bottom board this morning.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

Joseph Clemens said:


> Maybe read about a bio-weapon which is very effective against wax moth larvae, at the Xentari thread.


Thank you Joseph, but I appear to have a simple mechanical weapon - actually a couple. The bees, the new sbb, and my hive tool. None in the hive itself, none visible in the brood comb, or any of the comb, and I now have a mechanical weapon to keep the moths out, a new hive body without gaps. I also am building a moth trap... and putting it where the hive used to sit, a location the moths truly adored, in a couple of days. I have to let it start fermenting first. Thank you though.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

Michael Bush said:


> The simple way is that SHB larvae slime the place. Wax moth larvae web the place. Spikes are the next difference. SHB larve have spikes. Size is not a good indicater because all of them start out small and there are two sizes of wax moths, large and small.
> 
> http://www.bushfarms.com/beespests.htm#waxmoths
> http://www.bushfarms.com/beeswaxmoths.htm


I went out and chased down photos of the larvae this morning, and mine were indeed wax moth. Not that I didn't have shb, just that they hadn't apparently laid eggs, and the bees chased them thru the sbb. I will be opening this hive often for a few days.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

I read the bushfarms thread on wax moths, and the Certan thread, and found reference elsewhere. This is to be sprayed on empty comb to keep moths from eating it. But on comb covered with bees? Just in case, please clarify. because there are a LOT of bees on that comb, and the guard bees gave stinging me a valiant (if unsuccessful) effort, esp after the hive tipped while I was pulling the deep off the base. I can see dusting with powdered sugar, but spraying with liquids, hmm,,,, how bad are they going to hate me?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>But on comb covered with bees?

I does no harm.

> Just in case, please clarify. because there are a LOT of bees on that comb, and the guard bees gave stinging me a valiant (if unsuccessful) effort, esp after the hive tipped while I was pulling the deep off the base. I can see dusting with powdered sugar, but spraying with liquids, hmm,,,, how bad are they going to hate me? 

Wet tends more towards calming and slowing them.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

Well, to add insult to wax moth and shb, I counted 55 varroa mites on the sticky board under my sbb this morning. So I first replaced the now clean vinyl counting board, topped off the bee-safe ant traps, then brushed, sprinkled and otherwise distributed 2 cups of powdered sugar on the bees. I suited up but skipped the smoker, darn thing doesn't work more than 45 seconds anyway and takes 5 mins to light. No stings. I don't even know if I have a queen, this hive feels like a bicycle with training wheels, not much performance but good for learning to ride. I left the queen excluder out - one more thing to take off and put on. On the bright side, the bees may be getting used to being messed with.


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