# Replacing the frames w/out squeezing bees?



## allrawpaul (Jun 7, 2004)

I really like my TBH, but I find it slow going when I attempt to put the frames back in the have after an examination, because the bees seem to get between the frames and a couple allways want to stay there even when smoked. I dont like to oversmoke them just to get the frames back in place. Is there a trick to getting the hive back together without pinching and squeezing bees between the frames? thanks!


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## jrandydavis (Jun 29, 2006)

I'm still experimenting, but using a 1/8th inch thick strip the length of the hive's width seems to be working. Bring two adjacent bars close together- a little less than 1/4" apart. This is close enough to make it tight for the bees but not enough to squish them yet. Then insert spacer between top bars, down enough to pass the sides of the top bars. Then squeeze top bars together against the spacer, then slide spacer out and close top bars the remainder of the way.
RD


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## buckbee (Dec 2, 2004)

I use a water (mist) spray to get their heads down. As a last resort, make a soft brush with a bunch of grass and draw it rapidly along the gap, closing it as you go. The bees don't like that much, though.


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## kawayanan (Aug 11, 2006)

I almost never use gloves, and my bees couldn't care less about me during an inspection. I did get my first sting though while trying to close up. I run into the same problem getting the top bars together. I've tried smoke, my brush, the "V" close method, etc. They stung me when I tried using my hive tool to push them down. If the comb allows it (depending on how close the comb is to the edge of the bar), the thing I have found is best is to drop them straight down. I can't describe it very well, but Dennis Murrell describes it here (second method).

Kawayanan


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## buckbee (Dec 2, 2004)

I have wondered if this problem could be alleviated by shaving the bottom corners off the top bars at roughly 45 deg. to reduce the contact area between bars. This may also go some way to reducing any tendency to build crosswise instead of along the bars - although I have never seen this myself.

I will do some more experiments soon...


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## crazy hivan (Aug 17, 2006)

jrandydavis said:


> I'm still experimenting, but using a 1/8th inch thick strip the length of the hive's width seems to be working. Bring two adjacent bars close together- a little less than 1/4" apart. This is close enough to make it tight for the bees but not enough to squish them yet. Then insert spacer between top bars, down enough to pass the sides of the top bars. Then squeeze top bars together against the spacer, then slide spacer out and close top bars the remainder of the way.
> RD


I think I'm going to try this. It seems no matter what I do I end up smashing alot of bees. Also closing the bars together some of the bees just crawl up instead of back in to hive, Im figuring there nurse bees and won't ever make it back in the entrance. Im thinking the spacer would be alot easier to control and get bees out of the way with, than a top bar weighted with a full comb.Thanks for the idea.

stu


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## jrandydavis (Jun 29, 2006)

Stu-
It works for me. Let me know how it works out. I use a piece about 18" long by about 3" tall. This allows room to hold the strip by pinching it between my thumb and first finger, even with gloves on, and still get enough penetration to clear the bees from the entire thickness of the top bars.

RD.


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## JensLarsen (Mar 14, 2007)

*Managing top bars*

Interesting discussion. I am testing all kind of techs to manage the top bars. This is what I am doing right now:

First I pull back the top bar 20-30 mm. The bees cling together between combs and make a buzz when separating, that stops when there is a gap between them. Then they climb up and sit in a neat row along the top bar, all looking at me. Quite cute.

I usually swing the comb upside-down before turning to inspect the other side. Hand in middle and then turn like a steering wheel. The bees does not care.

To replace the top bar I put it back in the box, push it near the other top bar. Then I angle the top bar so only the top edges meet, rock it sidewise while I close the gap. It seems like the bees move away (down) when the gap closes and without the sidewise rocking they stay.

Heavy honey comb is placed hangning straight on top of the other, slight sideways rockning and then pull back and down.


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## mistergil (May 24, 2007)

I don't wear gloves either so I can pretty much can feel when a bee is caught between the bars, that is if I don't see them first. A few puffs of smoke along the opening usually drives most of them down and the rest are pushed with the end of the hive tool or a finger. If I am very slow and deliberate they seem to move out of the way nicely and stay calm. When I used Langs and the bees would come up and look at me, I would always smoke these gently as I learned that they were the ones likely to begin being overly defensive and if they were "interrupted" behaviors remained soothed. Since switching to TTBH's I use the same technique successfully. I'm also convinced that crushed bees release alarm pheromone and this easily starts what could develop into a testy situation so slow is good.


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## allrawpaul (Jun 7, 2004)

Thanks for all the replies! Great Idea Randy Davis! I will try your meathod during my next inspection. I havent inspected any but the last few frames in the last few weeks because it takes so long to put it back together without a lot of casualties. I look forward to a full inspection ASAP. Thanks!


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## allrawpaul (Jun 7, 2004)

How about triangular top bars that touch each other only at their pointed edges! It would be much easier to replace the frames because visibility would be much greater and the area of possible compression would be drastically reduced.


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## buckbee (Dec 2, 2004)

allrawpaul said:


> How about triangular top bars that touch each other only at their pointed edges! It would be much easier to replace the frames because visibility would be much greater and the area of possible compression would be drastically reduced.


Yes - and you would have to either have triangular cutouts in the supporting sides (but that would restrict movement) or squared off ends (difficult to machine). 

I suspect that triangular bits (or popsicle sticks) fixed to the face of the bars is a good solution - and we are working on a pretty neat approach over on www.biobees.com that has been dreamed up by one of my colleagues - the testing hasn't been done yet, but we hope to be able to demonstrate it soon.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I find when they are getting between that straight down works better than sliding it over.


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## Wojtek (May 31, 2005)

Excellent idea!, Jrandydavis. Thanks for shearing it with us. I am using different technique in undestructive way, but it take me a bit too much time. Your technique, I didn't use it yet, but I am convinced will be faster.
Little thing and so big.


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