# Breeding for nighttime foraging



## Ted Kretschmann (Feb 2, 2011)

Dar, I have seen bees foraging on a full moonlit night on the Tulip Poplar flow. Now if we can just get Monsanto to insert those glow in the dark jellyfish genetics in our bees..... TED


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## Paul McCarty (Mar 30, 2011)

I have been messing around in the yard at night when the moon is out, and have been struck in the head by my ferals as they return to the hive. I am guessing it is a trait that lies dormant in most domestic strains.


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## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

Scutellata fly longer. They are very prone to greet you every time you come near the hive too. Their worst traits for any serious operation are swarming and absconding which they do four times as much as European bees.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Paul McCarty said:


> I have been messing around in the yard at night when the moon is out, and have been struck in the head by my ferals as they return to the hive. I am guessing it is a trait that lies dormant in most domestic strains.


Would it not also indicate that sunlight isn't necassary for orientation or directional purposes? Or is that just in source communication direction purposes? Interesting ideas.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

Ted Kretschmann said:


> Dar, I have seen bees foraging on a full moonlit night on the Tulip Poplar flow. Now if we can just get Monsanto to insert those glow in the dark jellyfish genetics in our bees..... TED


hahaha - funniest thing I've seen all day!


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## Paul McCarty (Mar 30, 2011)

I haven't had mine swarm or abscond, and they only "greet" you when you get within about 15 feet of them. But they are a bit runny and seem to fly in most weather conditions, and even into the night on occasion. Still a little undecided on re-queening them. Not sure if they are Scutellata or not, probably just good and wild. They do cluster in Winter, they just don't like it. They'd rather be flying.


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## max2 (Dec 24, 2009)

I have seen my bees out BEFORE the sun was up and well AFTER the sun has set. At the moment they seem to put in very long days. Mid-summer here.


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

Paul McCarty said:


> They do cluster in Winter, they just don't like it. They'd rather be flying.


How much clustering do you typically see in New Mexico?


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## Paul McCarty (Mar 30, 2011)

Well, I live at 8000', so my regular bees do cluster. It gets pretty cold and snowy, about like Vermont. These particular bees, however, came from the desert. I think clustering is a new concept for them.


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## Moon (May 7, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> Would it not also indicate that sunlight isn't necassary for orientation or directional purposes? Or is that just in source communication direction purposes? Interesting ideas.


I would think their communication (waggle dance) would be the same as it is during the day only the moon is used for orientation instead of the sun? Or would this not work the same?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I would think their communication (waggle dance) would be the same as it is during the day only the moon is used for orientation instead of the sun? Or would this not work the same? 

As documented by Von Frisch, the bees continue all night to dance using the location of the sun on the other side of the earth. In other words the angle corresponds exactly to the sun's location even though they can't see it.


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

Michael Bush said:


> As documented by Von Frisch, the bees continue all night to dance using the location of the sun on the other side of the earth. In other words the angle corresponds exactly to the sun's location even though they can't see it.


WOW! I never heard that before, amazing!


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## Moon (May 7, 2011)

Michael Bush said:


> As documented by Von Frisch, the bees continue all night to dance using the location of the sun on the other side of the earth. In other words the angle corresponds exactly to the sun's location even though they can't see it.


Well that blows my mind a little bit, did he write a book or have his study published anywhere? Is it electromagnetism of the Earth they use or the sun then? Or does that suggest bees are able to gauge the passage of time without the aide of the suns placement in the sky? This has to be one of the most perplexing things I've read out of all the things I've read so far. It's a little to early in the morning for you to be hurting my head like that MB


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

And here you thought bees were simple things. Now you find out that they see big magnets in the sky. It has not been established exactly how bees can detect the sun's position, however, they are known to orient to the horizon the sun is nearest. You might also look up a foucault pendulum. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foucault_pendulum

DarJones


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Well that blows my mind a little bit, did he write a book or have his study published anywhere?

Karl von Frisch
Balzan Prize for Biology in 1962
Nobel Prize in 1973

von Frisch K (1967). The Dance Language and Orientation of Bees. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press.

http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674190511

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-3032.1981.tb00254.x/abstract

http://www.jstor.org/stable/2459058

https://www.msu.edu/user/fcdyer/pubs/DyerDanceRev.pdf

https://www.msu.edu/user/fcdyer/pubs/DyerDanceRev.pdf


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## Paul McCarty (Mar 30, 2011)

Probably some sort of quantum field thing, they say birds are like that too.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

I was told their would be no math in BEEKEEPING!! Hard for my primitive mind to get around.


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

Beekeepers math:
1 colony = 3 deeps or 5 mediums
3 deeps = 30 frames or 5 mediums = 50 frames
Full of honey = 255 pounds to lift = the reason most beekeepers have bad backs.
Extra supers have to be counted on your toes. A colony with 7 deeps stacked = standing on your toes to set the last 2 on the stack.

Further math requires extended courses. For example if you get up to 2000 colonies like Ted, then you have to get extra people to come along so you have more fingers and toes to count on. It helps that they can also lift supers when your back goes out.

DarJones


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## whiskers (Aug 28, 2011)

Michael Bush-
Someday I would like to come and spend about a year in your library.
Bill


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Someday I would like to come and spend about a year in your library.

Some of my bee books are 200 years old... some are from the last year or two... I try to reprint the old ones so I don't have to reread the originals


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