# regression in PF-120 nuc to 10 Frame foundationless transition advice request



## Jason (Nov 19, 2010)

Hello everyone,

First year hobbyist here, trying to start out treatment free. Read many books, lurked here for many months, so I am trying to emulate some of this forums proceedures.

My goal is to have the bees start on PF-120 frames then move them to foundationless 10 frame langs. I have started this proceedure in 5 frame medium nucs. I have some questions as to the timeing of the transfer from nuc to full hive. I do not want the nuc to get to full to fast before the smaller bees mature out to build the foundationless frames...anyway looking for some of yalls collective wisdom on the matter 

Here is some hopefully pertenant background info:
Two 3# Pacakge of bees were installed into two 5 frame medium nucs (D coates).
The nucs have 5 PF-120 frames each.
Instalation was on 09 April 2011
Queens were released 3 days later.
1:1 syrup has been fed (top 1/2 gallon mason jar), 2 gallons consumed per hive.
Pollen stores, uncapped 1:1 present in most frames.
eggs have been laid, some early stage larva (not yet the fat C) present in royal jelly.
Small amounts of capped 1:1 syrup is present
Most all the frames are drawn (the bottoms still need to be drawn)

Should I be worried that there is not enough room in the frames to wait for capped brood to hatch out to be foundationless comb builders? Any advice on how to proceed into the 10 frame foundationless?

thanks for your time,

Jason


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## Solomon Parker (Dec 21, 2002)

When moving into foundationless, I'd recommend placing single frames between already drawn frames. Otherwise they may not follow the comb guide and keep the comb within the useful confines of the frame. Personally, I would have placed them directly into the 10 frame. 

Probably let some of the brood start hatching and building up the population and then move them over. There will be plenty of new bees to build new comb and the combs you already have should be built well. There will be a point where they decide they want to build drone, so it may be a good idea to do something like keep one as a nuc and use it to build comb for the other. That way they will most likely continue to build worker comb. Just an idea.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I would never bother to remove the plastic PF120s... but even if you really want to, I wouldn't do that until a year or two from now and only when they are empty. Meanwhile, I agree with Solomon, I'd feed the foundationless in (as they an fill the gaps with festooning bees) between the drawn combs. You don't have to, but it's a way to get almost guaranteed straight perfectly drawn combs.


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## Jason (Nov 19, 2010)

Thanks for the advice folks,

@Solomon Parker: Yes I had planned on placing some of the Foundationless frames amoung the PF120's when I transition to the 10 frame body, not many as I have read it may chill the brood if I seperate the brood frames to much.
So if I read your suggestion correctly you are saying to move the nuc to the 10 frame body when new brood is emerging.

@Michael Bush: Sorry I do not think I made my intensions clear. I do not plan on getting rid of the PF120's. Only when is a good time to move them (intersperse them)from the nuc into a full 10 frame hive body for the purpose of drawing natural comb in the hive body: like at capped brood, emerging brood etc. I posed the question in the first place because the nuc is rather drawn out and full and I was worried about any possible consequenses of that. sorry for the confusion on my part.


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## Solomon Parker (Dec 21, 2002)

That would be an okay time to do it. They more established they are, the better, for any sort of manipulation.


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