# Bottom Board Feeder



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Well, I built my version of the Jay Smith Bottom Board Feeder (no entrance and a screened space to fill the feeder). I have them on ten of my packages and they seem to work ok. A few drowned bees, but less than I see in a frame feeder. In fact they are few enough that I wonder if they aren't just bees dying of old age that fall in the syrup and are hard to retrieve until the feeder is empty and then they are soggy and heavy. They take it well, since the food is opposite the entrance (my entrance is up top and the feeder is below) it doesn't seem to set off robbing. I've posted pictures just below the Jay Smith feeder picture:

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesmisc.htm

The other advantage is that you can stack them up in winter and have a feeder that can be filled and checked without unstacking the nucs or hives and the bottom of the board makes a top for the one under it with enough space for a pollen patty or other feed on top if you want. The pollen patty, of course, would require unstacking to put it on, unless one cut then into strips small enough to fit through the entrance and pushed them in there.

Of course the big advantage is it's made from standard equipment and costs less than a top feeder. The disadvantage is it holds less syrup than a top feeder. But it holds about the same amount of syrup as a one frame wide medium depth frame feeder.


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## Jeffrey Todd (Mar 17, 2006)

Michael, if I am seeing this correctly, the syrup sits in an open pool the width and length (almost) of the bottom board, with no floats or other devices to prevent bees from falling into the syrup? And apparently that is not much of a problem? I guess mites that fall drown as well; maybe this could be incorporated into an IPM scheme.


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

Now, when replacing old BB w/ new SBB, we can "recycle" the old into "new" bottom feeders. Thrifty, I like that


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Michael, if I am seeing this correctly, the syrup sits in an open pool the width and length (almost) of the bottom board, with no floats or other devices to prevent bees from falling into the syrup?

Correct.

> And apparently that is not much of a problem?

So far it seems to work. There are a few dead bees in the syrup, but no more than natural die off would explain.

> I guess mites that fall drown as well; maybe this could be incorporated into an IPM scheme.

Probably true, but only if there's syrup in the feeder at the time. 

>Now, when replacing old BB w/ new SBB, we can "recycle" the old into "new" bottom feeders. Thrifty, I like that.

Yes.

I'm enjoying these feeders. Easy to fill. You can see how much is in them. Nothing to open up or remove. I can stack nucs up and still feed them all. I can put nucs on top of hives and feed both the hive and the nuc without unstacking them.

Jay Smith was a pretty smart feller.


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

This is yet another one of them things that makes you go "Hmmmmm...."


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

>Jay Smith was a pretty smart feller . . .
Did you know he spent most of his life "just a piece up the road" from me? 

>them things that makes you go "Hmmmmm...."
Yep, hmmmmmmm was my first thought.

Just to show how little we know about bees, let me describe my first "top feeder" 

I used a shallow shell (empty-no frames) to enclose a cake pan placed on top of top bars. Worked great until . . . . One day I forgot to replace the float inside the pan. A day or so later, I checked the feeder and had a pan full of drowned bees.

In 10,000 words or less , someone please explain to me why bees drown in the TOP of a hive but not in the BOTTOM.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I think because they use the frames as ladders to get down to the syrup.


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

Michael Bush said:


> I think because they use the frames as ladders to get down to the syrup.


Some rambling thoughts on this cold wet cloudy Saturday morning:

I recall someone here, I think it was Jean-marc, describing how they pour sugar syrup into the bottom of styrofoam nucs. These boxes don't have a bottom entrance but rather, a hole partway up the side I think. In this arrangement, the bottom of the frames would be roughly a bee space above the bottom of the nuc and the bottoms of the frames would probably be actually immersed in the syrup. Clearly the bees could use the frames as ladders to get down to the syrup.

With a conventional bottom board retrofitted with a syrup dam, the bottom of the frames would be more like 3/4" or slightly more above the bottom; if this space were largely filled with syrup, one wonders how the bees manage to use the frames as ladders without eventually dropping off into the syrup. It would work for a while. Perhaps they learn? I think it's more likely that they primarily use the sidewalls to get down to the syrup.

In any case, I trust Michael's observation that they for the most part do not drown in this feeder so it's somewhat irrelevant how they manage not to.

All my hives are leaning forward with the back side being anywhere from 1/2" to 3/4" higher than the front. This is to allow water to drain out rather than collecting in the back. I think this is almost universally accepted as the way to setup hives though I can't remember where I heard it and someone will surely pipe up with a different opinion. In any case, you'd clearly want to level your hive to use this type of feeder or else the feeder's capacity would suffer considerably.

I wonder if it wouldn't be worthwhile, rather than using a conventional bottom board, instead constructing a feeder on the same general principle that affords the same conveniences (stackable, easy filling) but holds more syrup. Making the well say, 2" tall x 18" long x 14.75" wide, it would hold somewhere around 2 1/4 gallons of syrup. For comparison, a 3/4" tall feeder would hold about 3 quarts if your bottom board were level and you filled it completely. Not shabby, but not 2+ gallons either. You could also incorporate other functionality such as a float arrangement or some other means of enhancing bee access to the feed and minimizing drownings.

I suppose I'll think about this more.


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

>I trust Michael's observation that they for the most part do not drown in this feeder . . .

Oh, Oh . . . I was NOT questioning MrBEE’s word!

My observation (top of hive) and everything I have read about other feeders, demonstrate a different outcome. I sure wish I knew why.


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

Dave W said:


> >I trust Michael's observation that they for the most part do not drown in this feeder . . .
> 
> Oh, Oh . . . I was NOT questioning MrBEE’s word!


Hehehe... Question Everything Dave, including Authority! I'm sure Michael wouldn't want it any other way 



> My observation (top of hive) and everything I have read about other feeders, demonstrate a different outcome. I sure wish I knew why.


Yeah. I hear you there. I used some division board feeders this past winter to divide some nucs and I drowned a passle of bees, possibly even a couple of queens for all I know- at least I couldn't find them in the nucs.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

There are some dead bees on the bottom. But they don't like like anymore than normally die, and I'm sure they would fall to the bottom. I've seen more in a division board feeder.

I wonder if they hang upside down from the bottom bars? Or maybe just walk down the side to the edge of the syrup.


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

I have watched bees in my top feeder (had some extra time, no mites to count). They take the syrup and try to FLY away. Maybe they do the same in other feeders too (but not in "bottom" style). As they try to fly, it seems then is when they somehow get into the syrup. The question now . . . Hmmmmmm.

Maybe "hanging upside down" has something to do w/ "no drownings".


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## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

I had been thinking about something along those lines but as usual a little more complicated
I recently got a Sundance pollen trap and have been mulling over its design
see how Micheals bottom in three boards?
how bout if you made it 4 inches deep
make the rear third into a feeder like Micheal has
make the center third into a slatted rack/SBB so you could still do mite drop counts
make the front third into a pollen trap similar to the Sundance design 
you could use it year round
it would be a lot of work to build but it would make a lot of things easy
I need a couple of bottom boards, I'll take pictures as I build 1

Dave


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

drobbins . . .

>make the rear third into a feeder . . .
This "third" does not have to be INSIDE hive, only accessible. Why do build the feeder part as if it was "added onto the back"?

Just a thought


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## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

hmm

if you did that and made it large enough you could stack stuff on it
I like it 

Dave


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

Update on bottom feeder????

Anyone else made one????

How's the "drobbins special" working????


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## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

Hi Dave

I really need to build a couple of bottoms
these are what I'm planning
just been busy, it's "that" time of year

Dave


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