# Smoker Fuel



## guyross (Feb 18, 2011)

I have tried different fuel and I'm not sure if it's just timing or the fuel. I had bees that just couldn't be calmed one day using oak shavings. My last two time to smoke I threw in some pea hulls. What had always been an agressive hive was as calm as a new package of Italians using the pea hulls. It could just be timing.


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

Cool smoke high in CO2 is what you want, the less vaporized noxious stuff the better.

I've had very good luck with white pine needles rolled up in brown cardboard -- the aromatics from the needles seem to help and the cardboard smolders a long, long time.

Smoke really does work, by the way.

Peter


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## Bee-Sarge (Apr 17, 2011)

I use dried pine needles from around my property to get the smoker going then add fresh cut grass to get the smoke. I have Italian bees that react very well to this smoke. They are as calm as can be, and they have 1 1/2 Deep supers full of honey already. So they would normally be very protective.


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## StevenG (Mar 27, 2009)

guyross, if pea hulls work, keep using them and keep us posted. Perhaps where you are there are plenty of pine needles available free too. I don't have either option, but have access to free burlap, which works very well. I use the thin paper between foundation as a starter for the burlap.
Regards,
Steven


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## guyross (Feb 18, 2011)

Pine needles and pea hulls are a good combination. I just wanted to make people aware of my bad experiance with oak shavings.


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## DUKPT (Apr 8, 2011)

I racked up a garbage bag full of fallen Oak leaves this past spring.
Set the open bag in my garage. Right now they are crackling dry. Burn nice in the smoker.
I tried the pine shavings that I use in my Chicken Coop, the smoke was very hot.
The Bees react nicely to the Oak Leaves.


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## TattooedBeek (Aug 20, 2010)

Supposedly dry horse manure works very well. I haven't tried it myself...I rarely smoke my bees, but someday I'll get out to the pasture and gather up some roadapples and see how it does.


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

I don't use smoke when I'm just checking for full honey supers or something, but I only have one hive. Since my brother got stung a couple times, we always use smoke on his hives, it keeps them quiet while you shake bees off frames, etc.

I smoke them if I'm going to be pulling brood frames are moving boxes around, it's just cheap insurance against getting stung, which I don't care for.

Peter


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## guyross (Feb 18, 2011)

I don't care for it either. I got zapped today using pea hull smoke so there goes another lesson. Thanks everyone for your input.


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## ShaneVBS (Aug 22, 2011)

i use pine needles but hard to keep going if you dont stay on top of it. i used brushy mountian fuel for first time and it works better than everthing ive tried. but free is best with a little extra work


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## spunky (Nov 14, 2006)

I use dry straw, cedar shavings and dried lawn clippings , works well


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## johns bees (Jan 25, 2009)

Personaly I use jute. I take about five feet an roll it uplike you do a rope. light it let it burn for a minute and then drop it in the smoker it gives off a very nice cool white smoke works every time. Johns Bees


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

You want a little cool smoke. A lot of hot smoke will just set them off.


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## diablod3 (Dec 6, 2011)

ive tried the brushy mount. fuel and cant seem to keep it lit, i only have two hives so it doesn't get used a great deal. am i doing something wrong or is it just that i don't use it enough while in the field. ive heard that fuel pellets that are used for pellet stoves work very well, does anyone have experience with these?


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## Laurence Hope (Aug 24, 2005)

"You want a little cool smoke. A lot of hot smoke will just set them off."

I remember the first hot summer night I moved bees. I was more rookie then than now, thinking the more smoke; the more submission. I smoked, and smoked. They wouldn't submit. I was trying to get them in the hive to move them. They were intent on bearding outside to try to stay cool. 
Then along comes me with my smoker. The more I smoked, the madder they got. The more I smoked, the more stings I got. Finally, running out of burlap, taking a long break and pulling off my boots to empty the 30 or so bees from it and rub my sore ankles, I regrouped, loaded them
while they were bearded - no more smoke - and took them to some fine new bee pasture.
Now we put barley a puff in the opening, load, no screens, tie down and go. And I'm still a rookie, but I'm learnin'.
Laurence


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## DUKPT (Apr 8, 2011)

If you have a paper shredder in the office, well, there you go.

Free fuel.

I have used shreds for my last two inspections. Very easy to light, works well.

Good amount of smoke, and not very hot at all.

When I first started, I had used pine chips. Very hot.


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## max2 (Dec 24, 2009)

"Smoke really does work, by the way."

Does anybody really know why??:scratch:


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Does anybody really know why??

It's never been scientifically proven to work nor is there a proven mechanism as to why. I think we should all stop using it until that is done... 

My observation is it seems to interfere with their sense of smell which keeps them from raising a general alarm.


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## max2 (Dec 24, 2009)

"My observation is it seems to interfere with their sense of smell which keeps them from raising a general alarm. "

I think this is a very reasonable explanation - thanks!


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## Monkadelic (Feb 5, 2010)

I was taught that smoking the bees interrupted their ability to pass the "hey, intruder" messages and pheromones throughout the hive. Theory being that, if they can't communicate, they just go about whatever they were doing and leave you alone.

I recently collected some Spanish moss at the recommendation of another beek, it is a little damp so you need something dry to start it but smokes beautifully once it's going.


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## DUKPT (Apr 8, 2011)

Ok,, Yep, Ok. Thank you for making me smile!


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

diablod3 said:


> ive tried the brushy mount. fuel and cant seem to keep it lit, i only have two hives so it doesn't get used a great deal. am i doing something wrong or is it just that i don't use it enough while in the field. ive heard that fuel pellets that are used for pellet stoves work very well, does anyone have experience with these?


I had a nice, long post written earlier, but the system croaked on me...so a shorter version.

My mentor used wood pellets that he gets at Tractor Supply. Something like $4 for a 40# bag. The smoke is mild and burns well. He uses a propane torch to light them. He states (and I agree) that they don't have nearly the stench that pine straw has. The smoke from the wood pellets also doesn't linger on the skin or clothes as does the pine straw.

Having said that, all I've used is pine straw...it's easy to load up on the walk out to the beehive. I've found that it smokes with a nice, thick, lazy smoke. I'm using a Kelleys 4x10 smoker. It's not like I have to pump and pump and get a forge going inside my smoker. I get a good handful of pine straw and bend it in a "U" shape. I light the bottom of the "U", let it catch up, and then push down into the bottom of the smoker, pumping regularly but not what I would call vigorously. Once I see good smoke coming out the top of the smoker I'll add another handful of pine straw that I've formed into a circular wad. I'll push it down a piece till it hits the first handful, then pump some more to get the smoke volume back up. Once it's smoking good I press the top handful on down firmly against the burning straw. It stays lit, and has a good, thick smoke to it...produces a nice amount of smoke at "idle". I've watched a lot of videos where the beeks are pumping and pumping and I can hardly see any smoke...the smoke that I do see is thin and coming out at apparently a considerable velocity in a cone or fan shape...seems that this would be a hot smoke. A good smoke to me seems to be a good, thick, billowing smoke that lazes it's way around and slowly dissapates. When you pump the smoker you see a cloud of smoke...not a haze of smoke. It doesn't require a large number of pumps to make sufficient smoke and it idles along with a small, thick plume of smoke coming out of it.

The pine straw does have a very strong smell, though. I'll probably bum some pellets from my mentor and try them for myself just to see if the difference is big enough for me to forsake the pine straw and buy a bag of pellets.

Best wishes,
Ed


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Monkadelic said:


> I recently collected some Spanish moss at the recommendation of another beek, it is a little damp so you need something dry to start it but smokes beautifully once it's going.


I had been wondering about spanish moss. How does it smell? 

BTW, how are those mountain ladies of yours doing? 

Ed


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Cool smoke is the best as Mike B pointed out.

Unsuccessful smoke fuel is soft wood pellets meant for bedding. Horrible at best.
Successful smoker fuel I have used as follows:
Cow manure (old dry stuff)
chips from various trees
pine needles
pine cones
hard wood pellets
dry leaves (though they go fast)
burlap
bailing twine (not plastic stuff)

use stuff with least amount of chemicals in it.

I found that to cool the smoke make sure you have ample fuel in the smoker and pack some green grass on top. Like an inch bed or little more and you will get a nice dense smoke that works well.

Happy smoking


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## beehonest (Nov 3, 2011)

I have family in South Carolina, when I go to visit, I go out into a fresh picked cotton field. I fill a garbage bag full of the left over cotton, the farmers don't care and it burns great for me. Best of all it's free. It does not have a long burn time but you can shuv some more in before it goes out and keep rolling.


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## Monkadelic (Feb 5, 2010)

Hi Ed!

I like the Spanish Moss a lot. The smell is really a lot less acrid than pine straw, although it took me a bit to figure out how to best get it going. Once it's going it's great, burns really slow. I didn't have to refill the smoker at all when I used it, and I was out for a while.

My KY girls are doing okay, one hive is fine but the other I had some issues with. I'm hoping that that one makes it through winter okay (lost sleep over the bees for the first time ever last week!) but I have plans to get more queens in April. I really love those genetics!


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Old cut up jeans or anything cotton (t-shirts, whatever) works great! I go to the local seamstress in town who saves her "cutoffs" for me...........

Larry


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## TxFirefighter (Dec 14, 2010)

It amazes me the things folks put in their smokers. Here's a simple, cheap, and plentiful solution if you can't find leaves, twigs, etc. Go to ANY farm/feed store and buy you a bail of horse stall shavings. I have a 7" smoker and pack it full with this...I've had people drive by my house over 5hrs after I finished checking my bees to tell me there's smoke coming out of the back of my truck...
A bale of it is ALOT, and costs around 3-5 bucks, it contains no chemicals at all..it's just pine shavings..lights easily and burns forever. Makes really good smoke too.


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## DUKPT (Apr 8, 2011)

TxFirefighter said:


> It amazes me the things folks put in their smokers. Here's a simple, cheap, and plentiful solution if you can't find leaves, twigs, etc. Go to ANY farm/feed store and buy you a bail of horse stall shavings. I have a 7" smoker and pack it full with this...I've had people drive by my house over 5hrs after I finished checking my bees to tell me there's smoke coming out of the back of my truck...
> A bale of it is ALOT, and costs around 3-5 bucks, it contains no chemicals at all..it's just pine shavings..lights easily and burns forever. Makes really good smoke too.


Very familiar with the pine chips that you are using. I pick up a bail once a month. I use it to cover the bottom of my Parrot Coop. ( Macaws and Amazons )

From my personal experience. Pine Chips are somewhat hard to light. The smoke is Hot. I noticed this when my bees were a bit aggressive one day. Before going back into my house I smoked myself.

The Smoke was penetrating my clothes and just about burning my skin.

Try it sometime, smoke yourself with them pine chips.


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## guyross (Feb 18, 2011)

I tried cotton yesterday and didn't like it. Maye if it was compressed it would stay lit.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

guyross said:


> I tried cotton yesterday and didn't like it. Maye if it was compressed it would stay lit.


 Thanks for the cotton report. I had been planning on stopping and picking up some from around some staged bales...I think I'll pass now. Pine straw is working nicely for me in regards to smoke and burn times, the negative is the very strong smell. I've got a lot of oak debris from cutting/splitting firewood that I'm thinking of trying...it'd need running through the chipper probably...a mix of solid wood and punk. Probably the simplest thing that I've found with a decent burn and smell seems to be hardwood woodstove pellets...$5 for 40 pounds is pretty cheap, not free, but cheap, and should last a long time. I still like to be able to just reach down and grab a handful of something from off the ground, though. 

Ed


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Monkadelic said:


> Hi Ed!
> 
> I like the Spanish Moss a lot. The smell is really a lot less acrid than pine straw, although it took me a bit to figure out how to best get it going. Once it's going it's great, burns really slow. I didn't have to refill the smoker at all when I used it, and I was out for a while.


 That sounds pretty good, Monk...less acrid than the pine straw sounds great! I'll try to scarf some up soon and give it a go. What was your trick to getting it going?



Monkadelic said:


> My KY girls are doing okay, one hive is fine but the other I had some issues with. I'm hoping that that one makes it through winter okay (lost sleep over the bees for the first time ever last week!) but I have plans to get more queens in April. I really love those genetics!


Hmm, maybe rather than mountain ladies I should've referred to them as bluegrass ladies.  I'm still pondering how to start off...I've got a small nuc I'm overwintering (hopefully) and then the two colonies I'll be moving here in February. I'm hoping to catch some feral colonies and introduce their genetics into things...I've got a little property to quarantine them at before moving them to the house. We'll see how it goes.

Thanks for the spanish moss recommendation!
Merry Christmas!!!
Ed


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## Monkadelic (Feb 5, 2010)

Merry Christmas to you too, Ed! 

The way I got it going yesterday was with some pine straw scraps, which weren't large enough to fold and make the "u" shape with (which is what I had been doing). I just chucked a handful of pine straw in my smoker, got it burning high and added the Spanish moss. I filled it conservatively (only needed it for a minute) and it was still going two hours later.


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## Katharina (May 2, 2011)

I've tried the pine shavings and didn't like. It was hot burning. I reverted back to my old way. I use potato burlap bags, cut into strips. I lay it out, put some raw cotton onto it, and a few pieces of cedar wood left over from wood working. Roll it up and you can even put some twine around it. Make some of those packages and you can drop them into the smoker when needed. This gives me a nice white smoke and it goes on for a while. The burlap puts a damper on the cotton so it does not burn up to fast or hot. The wood pieces are just extras. I think the smoldering wood prevents the smoker from dying. I only use two or three 1/2 inch thick pieces perhaps 2 inches long. Not much wood at all.


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## Bsupplier (Dec 23, 2008)

We take clean burlap cut to the size of the smoker and roll them with pine straw. Quick to light, long burn, cool smoke!


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## guyross (Feb 18, 2011)

I combined cotton and pine needles today. I didn't give cotton a fair chance trying it alone.


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## JRing (Jun 12, 2011)

The smoke is from what I've read and heard, makes the bees think there is a forest fire, and a little smoke allows them to gorge on honey thus making them more placid (and a full belly) to much hot smoke and the fire is close and they will abscond in your face.


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## mmiller (Jun 17, 2010)

I like pellet stove pellets. I have a pellet stove in the house so they are very handy. I start with newspaper toss a hand full of pellets, puff the bellows hard about a dozen times, add another hand full, another dozen or so hard puffs, and a last hand full followed by a ball of grass to keep the burning pellets from coming out the spout. I get thick smoke that will burn for a couple hours without messing with it. I use a small smoker and if I fill it full it would probably go all day. The smoke is pleasant smelling as well, unlike burlap (my opinion).
Even if you don't have a pellet stove, a 40 lb bag of pellets is about 5 dollars and would last the beekeeper with a couple dozen hive the entire season.


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## Katharina (May 2, 2011)

guyross said:


> I combined cotton and pine needles today. I didn't give cotton a fair chance trying it alone.


I really like the white smoke cotton produces. I spread it out over burlap, roll it up, put into the smoker and light it.


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

If you use pine straw, try pulling a generous handful of green grass and putting it on top of the straw. The green grass cools down the smoke and helps the smoker burn longer.

DarJones


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## TxFirefighter (Dec 14, 2010)

DUKPT said:


> Very familiar with the pine chips that you are using. I pick up a bail once a month. I use it to cover the bottom of my Parrot Coop. ( Macaws and Amazons )
> 
> From my personal experience. Pine Chips are somewhat hard to light. The smoke is Hot. I noticed this when my bees were a bit aggressive one day. Before going back into my house I smoked myself.
> 
> ...


I have, and love it. Any smoke penetrates your clothing.... that's why my bunker gear stinks so much after fighting a fire, and my clothes smell just like it afterwards too ..even with all that protective clothing on. Believe me, I have first hand experience with that. If you pull up some grass and top the smoker with it...no hot smoke. Everyone should be doing that anyways. As for lighting it...I have no problems at all. Maybe your supplier is giving you wet chips.


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## guyross (Feb 18, 2011)

Five dollars is a bargain. I was in Houston this summer and bought a small bag for $5.00 at a store that sold beekeeping supply's. I liked them too after I learned how to us them.


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## guyross (Feb 18, 2011)

I use a propane torch to light mine now. I took me a while to learn that trick.


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## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

My favorite is cotton rags. Old tshirts, jeans, etc


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## virginiawolf (Feb 18, 2011)

It rained alot here in spring and summer so the needles under trees and stuff was wet most of the time and gave me some trouble keeping my smoker lit. I hadn't saved a box of dry needles and leaves. On one of the rare dry days I took notice to the pile of barley grains out in the yard I had as a by product from brewing beer. I had a bunch. When they dried out in the sun I tried them in my smoker. I used a torch to get them lit. It burned for a long time. It didn't smell bad. I figured I'd mention it because if you or someone you know makes homebrew beer from grain you will have lots of spent grain. I give it to my friends chickens as well and compost some but will save some for smoker fuel now that I know it can be used. Roasted Barley  VW


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## Slow Modem (Oct 6, 2011)

guyross said:


> Five dollars is a bargain. I was in Houston this summer and bought a small bag for $5.00 at a store that sold beekeeping supply's. I liked them too after I learned how to us them.


I got mine at Tractor Supply Store. I don't know if they sell them in the summer time, so it might be a good time to buy now.

http://www.tractorsupply.com/wood-fuel-pellets-40-lb--3195163


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## Katharina (May 2, 2011)

Look for animal bedding pellets, same thing just a different name and cheaper. 40 pound bag goes for $3.95 at my local feed store. These are made out of 100% kiln dried pine shavings pressed into pellets, just like the smoker pellets. Watch out not to get DryStall. It contains DE, which you do not want to burn and inhale.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

The woodstove pellets that I've seen are hardwood. ??

Ed


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## Katharina (May 2, 2011)

Here is the maker I was talking about:
http://www.naturespellets.com/products.html
They make both bedding pellets and fuel pellets.


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## Katharina (May 2, 2011)

Please delete, duplicate post.


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## sheepdog (May 3, 2011)

I've also been using pine straw and grass. I recently collected the Red pods from a Sumac shrub (not poison sumac). Our local bee keepers say it works great. I will let you know in the spring when the bees are flying again.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Katharina said:


> Here is the maker I was talking about:
> http://www.naturespellets.com/products.html
> They make both bedding pellets and fuel pellets.


I think it's a case of regional resources. Just like most Canadians and many from the west/northwest burning conifers...that's what you got, you use it.  I do like the smell of the hardwood pellets better than the pinestraw but in my first experience with the pellets I was not impressed. I had trouble lighting them with the propane torch and then the smoke seemed rather weak...unlike the billowing smoke from the pinestraw. At least I didn't smell like I had been fighting forest fires when I got through. I'm still kinda leaning to the straw, though I'm going to try the pellets a few more times...daughter bought me two 40# bags for Christmas.  ...she also got me a subscription to Bee Culture, too! :-D

Ed


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## mmiller (Jun 17, 2010)

Intheswamp said:


> ...she also got me a subscription to Bee Culture, too! :-D
> 
> Ed


Sounds like a keeper!:thumbsup:

Mike


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