# Hello+Combining two weak hives



## cherryridgefarm (Sep 26, 2016)

Hello Beesource friends, thanks for taking the time to read my note and good to find this bee community. My wife and I have been keeping bees for about 9 years as a hobby. We've also been amazed at how many more flowers there are around our farm, and how much the addition of a couple hives impacted our gardens.

I had a very busy summer and didn't tend my bees the way I like - out of town a lot. One hive was exploding with bees all summer long and produced a lot of honey, the other one was pretty solid but not producing much honey. Traveled a lot in August and September and couldn't really get into the bees. September we had a swarm while I was gone (I kind of knew it would happen, the bees were overcrowded and guess I got what I deserved), and there was subsequent robbing by yellow jackets. Last weekend I found clear evidence of swarm cells in one of the hives, none in the other (but it's also pretty clearly swarmed - strange). 

Took off the honey supers on both - one hive had filled the honey super frames, the other one had a lot of unfinished comb. Both sets of comb are in my freezer at the moment.

Anyway, at this point I have two hives, both weak, and not much in the way of honey store for our cold winter. So I am thinking of combining both using the newspaper method. I also need to figure out feeding, and whether I can feed with a combination of using my honey super frames and top feeding. Here are the steps I plan to take and I would appreciate any thoughts or ideas!

TWO DAY PROCESS (I THINK)

- locate the stronger hive - locate that queen, put the box she is in on the bottom, move any honey-filled frames to the bottom, shake all bees from the other hive body into the bottom hive body and remove the other hive body, and then that evening go out and close up the bottom box when all bees are inside

- go to the weaker hive - find the queen (if there is one) and dispatch that queen - combine any honey frames into one box and replace any problem frames (some are old and dark comb) - shake all bees into that one box, remove the other hive body, and then that evening go out and close up the bottom box when all bees are inside

- next morning - both hives closed up - open the top of the stronger hive with the queen (put that hive body on the bottom), put down a sheet of newspaper. Then move the weaker hive body on top of that.

QUESTION: Does that combining process sound about right?

QUESTION: bearing in mind the weak honey stores in both hives, is there anything wrong with either leaving honey super frames on the top through the winter to feed the bees, or mixing half-height full honey frames in with the full-height body frames. Is one or the other the better choice?

QUESTION: Bearing in mind two weak hives and continued robbing, should I put an entrance limiter on the bottom of the new combined hive?

Once this is all done I plan to top-feed through October. Normally I also Apistan for varoa, but this year I think the bees have bigger problems (we haven't had terrible varoa up here) and don't want to add too much into the mix all at once.

Thanks for listening and appreciate any insight!

Dick & Sally Huey


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

Your plan sounds pretty good to me, but why close them in at night? Bees don't fly at night anyway. I would put entrance reducer on them once they are joined, and put on a super of the most full frames of honey, and put on a top feeder as you've said. Are you sure varroa is not a problem, perhaps contributing to why they are weak?


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## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

Welcome Dick & Sally Huey!


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

if you do close them up - be sure you have enough screened opening that they can breath. they can and will block a screen enough to kill the hive


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## cherryridgefarm (Sep 26, 2016)

RayMarler said:


> Your plan sounds pretty good to me, but why close them in at night? Bees don't fly at night anyway. I would put entrance reducer on them once they are joined, and put on a super of the most full frames of honey, and put on a top feeder as you've said. Are you sure varroa is not a problem, perhaps contributing to why they are weak?


Thanks for the welcome, and Sakhoney thanks for the advice about being careful the screen doesn't get clogged.

Ray thanks for this answer. I was going to close them at night because during the day many of the bees will be out and I thought this was the way I could get most of the bees in the box. I also thought the boxes needed to be closed or else putting one on top of the other would have the queen-less colony trying to get into their "old" box via the "new" bottom box with the other queen (since there wouldn't be an entrance for the queenless colony to the hive except through the bottom box.

If it's not a problem to leave them both open I can do it...just a bit confused about the queenless colony, won't it fight the other colony and queen as it's trying to get into its hive body?

I will add a top honey super on top of the two hive bodies full of the most frames of honey. Once the colonies are joined, if they still look weak after a month I can combine them down to one box below, and the honey super on top.

Re varoa - I've treated for it every year w/Apistan, I've just heard it's hard on the bees (I guess varoa is too) and with so relatively few bees I thought it might be too much all at once. But if that feels like a bad call I'll do the varoa treatment.

Nice to have some backup on my plan, thank you again.


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

here in IL, I'm about 2 weeks away from combining any weak colonies. I don't recomend my method, simply stating what I do. I simply take the weaker colony and set it on top of the stronger colony, I don't even look for a queen, I let them sort it out, hasn't failed me......yet.


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

Cherry - I do it Harleys way as well but with a twist - I take 2 mediums comb and put between the 2 hives your combining - the queenless hive gets a whiff of the queen and brood below and work their way down. Hardly ever hurting the queen. then within a few days - they have all there honey stores moved down to the brood nest below as well. if it will make you feel better - by all means - install a sheet of newspaper between them. takes 5 minutes - not 2 days. best to do mid day while most of the old bees are out collecting honey
my 2 cents


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## cherryridgefarm (Sep 26, 2016)

sakhoney said:


> Cherry - I do it Harleys way as well but with a twist - I take 2 mediums comb and put between the 2 hives your combining - the queenless hive gets a whiff of the queen and brood below and work their way down. Hardly ever hurting the queen. then within a few days - they have all there honey stores moved down to the brood nest below as well. if it will make you feel better - by all means - install a sheet of newspaper between them. takes 5 minutes - not 2 days. best to do mid day while most of the old bees are out collecting honey
> my 2 cents


Great, this is way easier, maybe I overthought it. So I guess you'd put a medium box between the two boxes, and lay the two medium combs on the newspaper? To keep them busy? Good idea, I'll try this, will be better than the situation now. Thanks for all the suggestions.


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

sakhoney said:


> Cherry - I do it Harleys way as well but with a twist - I take 2 mediums comb and put between the 2 hives your combining - the queenless hive gets a whiff of the queen and brood below and work their way down. Hardly ever hurting the queen. then within a few days - they have all there honey stores moved down to the brood nest below as well. if it will make you feel better - by all means - install a sheet of newspaper between them. takes 5 minutes - not 2 days. best to do mid day while most of the old bees are out collecting honey
> my 2 cents


don't you have to go back and undo this? or do you leave 2 combs in a box between boxes?, what happens to the brood in the box you add? I drop my box and walk away, .... see ya in march girls.


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## cherryridgefarm (Sep 26, 2016)

cherryridgefarm said:


> Great, this is way easier, maybe I overthought it. So I guess you'd put a medium box between the two boxes, and lay the two medium combs on the newspaper? To keep them busy? Good idea, I'll try this, will be better than the situation now. Thanks for all the suggestions.


So I went out to the yard to do this, and it looks like this morning another swarm may be attempting a move-in? Where there was little activity two days ago, there are thousands of bees in bunches literally dripping off the weaker hive. This isn't some selective robbing, this is an all out assault? Someone else's swarm I would bet. So I will let that settle down a bit before figuring out what to do next.


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

cherryridgefarm said:


> So I went out to the yard to do this, and it looks like this morning another swarm may be attempting a move-in? Where there was little activity two days ago, there are thousands of bees in bunches literally dripping off the weaker hive. This isn't some selective robbing, this is an all out assault? Someone else's swarm I would bet. So I will let that settle down a bit before figuring out what to do next.


my guess would be to put the boxes in storage, sounds like severe robbing, probably won't be anything left in a few days.


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

I guess I should have been clearer - 1 hive on bottom - 2 BOXES full of comb - hive to combine on top.
top boxes will now be honey supers - or in a day or two - you can rotate the box down


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