# What's Up at EAS?



## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

I just received notice that EAS has cancelled speakers, Dee Lusby, Erik Osterlund, and myself. They claim not to have any money for speaker support. Afraid of the recession. Hmmm.


----------



## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

given that the theme is supposed to be keeping bees without chemicals, one wonders how many speakers they will have that actually have experience keeping bees without chemicals (post mite) vs. how many are "experts" on the topic of keeping bees without chemicals.

deknow


----------



## Jack Grimshaw (Feb 10, 2001)

After all ,the venue is a resort.I can't afford to stay there.

I would have enjoyed meeting Dee and Erik but I also can see the cost involved.

Some of us are camping.
http://www.reserveamerica.com/campi...o?camparea=76711959&contractCode=NY&parkId=31

I hope this does'nt keep you from attending.


----------



## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

Jack, you are in luck.

We also decided that we wanted to hear these speakers, so we invited them, are flying them in to Massachusetts, and paying them to speak (after all, taking time off from beekeeping in July/August certainly costs the beekeeper something...not to mention travel, food, and lodging). We feel it's important for such a conference to be "sustainable" (that it's not a huge cost for the speakers to be there). 

After all, it's the speakers that would otherwise be busiest that are the most valuable to have speak.

Details are in the "meetings" forum, or on our website:
http://BeeUntoOthers.com/

deknow


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Michael Palmer said:


> I just received notice that EAS has cancelled speakers, Dee Lusby, Erik Osterlund, and myself. They claim not to have any money for speaker support. Afraid of the recession. Hmmm.


But you'll probably still be there, won't you Mike? Since it's in NY I'm going to make an effort to be there too.


----------



## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

I won't be able to make it this year. I'm really busy at that time of year. Just finishing up my queen rearing/nuc making for the year. Not that I wouldn't love to go, and spend countless hours talking bees. But, I don't really take vacations at that time of year. Now, If I had something to do there...some service to the beekeeping community like a workshop, or seminar talking, then I'd make the time.


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I e-mailed Joseph K. Are you going to have queens to sell? When do you predict having them available?


----------



## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

sqkcrk said:


> I e-mailed Joseph K. Are you going to have queens to sell? When do you predict having them available?


June 15-August 15


----------



## Jack Grimshaw (Feb 10, 2001)

Dean
I had hoped that the tentative dates on your website were wrong.I'm heading to W.NY on Sat am.

Mike
Our loss.


----------



## wayacoyote (Nov 3, 2003)

Well, there goes the reason I wanted to attend.


----------



## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

...there now appears to be a brochure detailing some of the speakers:
http://www.easternapiculture.org/programs/2009/2009Brochure.pdf

...from my limited knowledge, it looks like kirk webster is the only speaker that actually keeps bees without chemicals...in a conference that is titled:
"towards nonchemical beekeeping".

deknow


----------



## Allen Dick (Jan 10, 2009)

Adam Finklestein is on the list. Bob Brachman, a Russian queen producer is on the list. Tom Rinderer is on the list.

AFAIK, each has some considerable experience with "nonchemical beekeeping" and an open mind.

It looks like a good balanced program. There will also, I am sure, be many there with experience on the topic, and any who have something to offer can contribute during sessions and in the yards.

I'm actually thinking I will attend this year. EAS is never cheap, and the timeing is bad for many commercial operators, but I must say my last EAS, in Maine, was a worthwhile investment.

In previous years they had poor publicity on their website, making it hard for those on a budget or unfamiliar with EAS to visualise the event, but hopefully things are improving. They are very responsive to requests for information by email, BTW.


----------



## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

allend said:


> Adam Finklestein is on the list. Bob Brachman, a Russian queen producer is on the list. Tom Rinderer is on the list.


apologies if i've missed anyone. i've had some limited correspondence with some of those you name. i won't presume to know what their practices are or are not....some of them are on this list, and an actual correction of an error is always welcome. as i said in my comment, my knowledge of what each individual beekeeper does or does not do is limited.

it is worth noting that it is common for beekeepers to want to be seen as "natural" (as it is part of the reputation/mythology of honey). in face to face conversations with other beekeepers, "i don't treat" often morphs into, "well, i treat the hives with high mite loads" and/or "well, you have to feed with fumidill or your bees will die" and often "oh, formic acid occurs naturally in honey, and therefore i don't see it as a chemical" ...and likewise with essential oils.

other beekeepers have been known to give talks on "keeping bees without chemicals" where, when describing what they will be talking about, say terramicyn should be fed in the spring and the fall.

the above examples are to point out that "chemical free" is used by many in the beekeeping world as something other than "free of chemical use".



> AFAIK, each has some considerable experience with "nonchemical beekeeping" and an open mind.


well, i think it's pretty well established that the beekeeping industry as a whole has become overly dependent on chemical treatments.

if one is part of a community that is overly dependent on alcohol (and it causes problems), and in that context, one runs a workshop on "how to live your life without alcohol"...does a speaker that only drinks under stress have "considerable experience with living without alcohol"? perhaps in a sense...and this is probably better than drinking everyday. but if one wants to hear from someone who actually has "considerable experience with living without alcohol", one is looking for someone that no longer drinks, even under stress.

my point is that, as long as the "fallback" position is to use treatments, one is not really gaining "considerable experience with nonchemical beekeeping"...they are gaining experience of using less chemicals...they are gaining experience of only using chemicals once every X years instead of every year...they are gaining experience in using chemicals to combat problems rather than to prevent them....but this is an entirely different thing entirely, just as a problem alcoholic that drinks under stress is a different person than a problem alcoholic that simply doesn't drink.

deknow


----------



## Allen Dick (Jan 10, 2009)

Tom Rinderer http://www.ars.usda.gov/pandp/people/people.htm?personid=4720 is the man behind the Primorsky project and has very widespread experience and very impressive credentials. Researchers in his lab have a lot of experience in keeping bees with and without chemicals and breeding bees that do not require treatments.

Bob Brachman http://russianbreeder.org/members.htm is a Russian queen producer as stated. He has been around a long time and if you wish, I believe you can read his trials and tribulations with foregoing treatments at least a decade back in the BEE-L archives.

Adam Finklestein http://www.vpqueenbees.com/ was the founder of sci.agriculture.beekeeping. According to recent post on this site, he claims multiple degrees, plus a decade or so of raising and selling queens from stock that has not required treatment and which also perform in commercial use.


----------



## talkingamoeba (Feb 15, 2008)

How much does it cost to attend the conference etc...?


----------



## Allen Dick (Jan 10, 2009)

> How much does it cost to attend the conference etc...?


http://www.easternapiculture.org/programs/2009/ is the home page.

I really do not know why, but they never do give out the information that people obviously need to know. I was after them years back, and assumed that by now they would have reformed, especially as they have issues with profitability due to attendance and membership lagging! Looking at the site, nothing has improved in five years!

Here is the explanation I got years ago: EAS is an organisation, not just an event and members get advance registration forms, etc. with the newsletter. (I assume that members therefore never misplace the info and need to look things up on the web).

The long and short of it is that EAS organisers are inward-looking and don't realize how many people who are initially interested get discouraged and feel rejected, then give up when they visit the site and cannot find basic information they need. From an outsiders perspective, EAS looks somewhat exclusive and unwelcoming. 

The actual event is the opposite of the impression we get from the site. It is very welcoming and inclusive and a chance to meet the names you read in studies, magazines and books face to face.

The website notwithstanding, the EAS people are really nice people and if you write or phone them from the contact page (above link) they will lean over backwards to inform, assist and accommodate.


----------



## talkingamoeba (Feb 15, 2008)

seems they would try


----------



## Allen Dick (Jan 10, 2009)

OK. I'd appreciate if those on this thread who have a few moments -- especially those who have never been to EAS and who don't know much about it -- would take the time to visit http://www.easternapiculture.org and spend a few minutes, then come back and say if they are any wiser than when they first got to the site, or if they are confused -- and why.

I'll explain later.


----------



## talkingamoeba (Feb 15, 2008)

what is the cost?


----------



## Jack Grimshaw (Feb 10, 2001)

deknow said:


> ...
> 
> ...from my limited knowledge,
> deknow


Well Dean,Why don't you and Ramona attend this year and meet some of the people.

EAS is a "big tent" event.One can't judge anothers beekeeping knowledge by screening out those who treat.I don't see any benefit to an "us vs them" approach.The idea of "Towards Nonchemical Beekeeping" is an ideal all beeks embrace,whether or not they presently treat.

The biggest draw for me is the face to face contact with the people who do the research,publish in bee mags and scientific journals,and are leaders in their profession.Most are there for the whole 5 days.And you'll see them in the clasroom and labs,at the breakfast and lunch tables,share a beverage at a social,or just hang out on the back steps.
Many will share thoughts in private that they can't publicly.

As for the cost:
This usually isn't determined until the spring but can be broken down into categories.
Membership in EAS (required)
Short course (Mon,Tue,Wed)
Conference (Wed,Thur,Fri)
Special events(this year a BBQ hosted by Andy Card,Merrimac Valley Apiaries)
Fri night banquet
Meals(This year at a resort so meals will be on your own in resort or nearby restaurants.When the conference is at a university the meals are in dining halls)
Accommodations on campus or resort.

Most mix and match.I usually camp.Allegany State park---9 nights---$138--split 2 ways--$69.Will make most of my own meals.Last year because of the heat I stayed in a hotel--$50 per night,same as a dorm room on campus.This year i'm sure the resort rooms will be more than that.

I went back a few years and these were my checks.
04----$340---short course and conference
06----$541---short course,conference, special events,meals--2 people
07----$383---short course,conference, special events,meals
08--pd by charge card but seem to remember about $350 for short course,conference,special events and meals

Note: I'm a life member so pay no dues.

Kim ,Kathy and Jim are real people.Give them a call with your questions.

Jack


----------



## Allen Dick (Jan 10, 2009)

Thanks, Jack, for explaining it so well. 

Apparently, at this early stage nobody knows what the fees will be! At some point later on the details will, apparently be posted. As I recall, that happens about the time people have given up and made other plans.

I think, from Jack's note, people can get an idea what EAS is about, but I know many are not really sure what the "short course" and "conference"s all about, since the organisation is so different from other meetings. I know I attended the Maine EAS, and I am still not clear on how all that works.

EAS people are so familiar with the format that it seems they cannot appreciate how strange it appears to those who have never been. 

Of course, for those who are not concerned about budget, the answer is to just dive in, but for those looking at doing the meeting on a shoestring, knowing what to plan is much more difficult.

Just in case anyone gets the wrong idea, I am not knocking EAS. I am confused, though by the format, and lack of clear info for newbees.

By all means, go. I'll see you there.


----------



## Allen Dick (Jan 10, 2009)

For those wondering, a previous year's form is here http://www.easternapiculture.org/programs/confarchive/2008/EAS2008Reg.pdf

Seems the cost is very low for such a major event. Accomodation at the lodge is pricey, but there are cheap digs in the town nearby and I am sure many will be there. I think I will. 

Visit http://www.easternapiculture.org/programs/2009/ and poke around. the navigation on the site is a bit wierd, but there is a lot there.

I know the "Short Course" terminology, the two levels and a seemingly separate conference will throw many, but just think of it as being several days with seminars that you can mix and match -- or skip -- and more meetings and speakers at the end of the week. Sorta a supe convention with bee yards nearby.

At EAS, there is a large concentration of beekeepers of every level and you'll never run out of things to do, day or night.


----------



## Jack Grimshaw (Feb 10, 2001)

Unfortunatly,past programs have been wiped from the EAS website.The 2009 program and costs will be available there this spring.

The week is divided into the short course (Mon Tue Wed am) and the conference(Wed pm Thur Fri) Some people attend just the short course,some just the conference and some stay the week.

the short course is basicaly bee school in a classroom with beginner(biology,diseases,pests,seasonal management etc) and advanced(IPM stratagies,queen rearing,pollination etc) with sessions in the bee yard for both groups.

The conference is generally in an auditorium with presentations on completed research or overviews of ongoing studies or sometimes topics of general interest to beekeepers.The workshops on Thur and Fri offer 4-5 choices of specific subjects for each time period with some offered more than once.Mead making,candle making,apitherapy,cooking with honey,microscope lab etc or in the apiary;hive beetle traps,making splits and nucs etc.The workshops are fewer people ,led by an expert but with audience participation encouraged.Two of the workshops I attended last year were microscope labs;dissection for Tracheal mites with Ed Holcomb and Nosema sampling with Tom Webster.Microscope labs are usually only given when the conference is at a university.

Unfortunatly,all I can remember of Me in 2003 were 5 days of rain,that claustrophobic underground auditorium,encaustic painting with Michael Young,and the wonderful lobster and seafood meal where Aaron smuggeled some bluberry mead onto the dry campus.

It's been said the 5 days are worth 5 years experience although I'm sure that's a biased opinion.

Jim Fisher once compared an EAS conference to a Grateful Dead concert;you never know what you will see or hear.I believe,Allen,it was on Bee-L, the last time you asked questions about EAS.

The 4 part EAS Master Beekeeping exam is also given during the week
http://www.easternapiculture.org/programs/mb/mboverview.shtml

Many attend for the social aspect.I've met people from all over the East and beyond,from all different backgrounds,who are all beekkeepers.Many come back year after year.

I hope this helps, Jack


----------



## Allen Dick (Jan 10, 2009)

Actually, I did find them. The site is not that easy to navigate, but I did find this:



> EAS SHORT COURSE - Aug. 4-6, 2008
> - $100/person for all three days.
> Main Conference officially begins WEDNESDAY MORNING at 8:00. Don't Forget!
> Registration Fees - $100/person or $140/family
> ...


So, that shows the event is pretty cheap, assuming the prices have not changed much.

Yes, Maine was rainy and we had to run all over the campus.

Personally I found the "Short Course" designation confusing and off-putting, but I did go and found that the a actual event was very good.


----------



## Allen Dick (Jan 10, 2009)

Just in case anyone takes a glance and assumes the data I posted two messages ago is the current year, I should pointg out it is last year's price data and this year's has not yet been decided or posted on the site, but I would assume it should not be very different.



> I heard that Mike Palmer of VT was also invited again


That would be good.


----------



## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

allend said:


> I heard that Mike Palmer of VT was also invited again.
> That would be good.


Actually, I was invited, and then cancelled. Kim wrote that the treasurer was afraid of the recession, and they needed to tighten the budget. I was emailed by JF, that EAS lost lots of $$ at KY. So, they are trying to protect what $$ they have left. I can understand that, and have no problem with it. 

I was asked this past weekend why I was boycotting EAS. Hey! I'm not! If I had something to do there...to help in some way...you could count me in. I sing for my supper. d EAS is one of my favorite summer things to do. I can remember years when Drutchas and I would ride in on our motorcycles, and tent out on campus. Ahh the good old days. I'm now remembering Lancaster, PA. Years ago. Us tenting in Intercourse in a campsite. Amish farm next door in beautiful condition. Amish boy in typical clothes comes out to fix the one board on a never ending fence, that's broken. Sees us...sees our motorcycles...comes over for a closer look, all wide eyed and bushy tailed. His only words..."Wow, are you guys out for the whole summer??" I think they've lost him already.

As far as a vacation goes...I just can't. I'll be at the end of my annual queen rearing. Queens to catch and ship out to beekeepers, last rounds of cells to install. Still a week of nucs to make for wintering. Right in the middle of harvest. Can't be everyewhere at once.

We're looking to get EAS back to Vermont in 2012 or 2013. It's been since 1980, when we had some 750 attending. One of the best turnouts ever. Made many life long friends at that meeting


----------



## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

Jack Grimshaw said:


> Well Dean,Why don't you and Ramona attend this year and meet some of the people.


it was our plan to attend...in fact, our treatment free conference was originally scheduled in order that we (and some of the speakers) would get to eas on sunday, and be there for the entire week (not to miss a single day).

things, however, changed, and we now have other plans for that week. we will likely attend the next time it is within driving distance (vermont would be great).

deknow


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

So Mike, why are you boycotting EAS?


----------



## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

sqkcrk said:


> So Mike, why are you boycotting EAS?


So I can have a hundred queens for you, and you can requeen before you leave for SC. What day did you say you wanted them, Mark?


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Hmmm, good question. Is June 15th too early?
I guess this should be a PM, don't ya think?

I was just poking fun about EAS, don't ya know?


----------



## Jack Grimshaw (Feb 10, 2001)

The 2009 speaker profiles are now on the EAS website.

http://www.easternapiculture.org/programs/2009/speakers.shtml


----------

