# Vaporized Oxalic acid question



## drlonzo (Apr 15, 2014)

You have two options as I see it.. 
1. Pull queen from box of bees and OAV the box of bees without queen in it, then install a couple hours later.
2. Install the package as normal, wait till she has started laying but prior to the first brood being capped, then OAV the hive.

You may want to actually take a sample of the bees before doing either one and see what the mite load is on the package prior to doing either one. It could be that the mite load is not a problem and you could wait till after they have been hived a while prior to treatment.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

drlonzo has it correct...........
If you vaporize prior to placement in the hive, you can just vaporize under a cardboard box...........easy..............


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## JTGaraas (Jun 7, 2014)

There are three (3) options available -- a package installation provides the third opportunity for use of oxalic acid by "spray". There is no brood, and the EPA specifically identified it as a opportune time to use a spray rather than dribble or vaporization process. Here is a Dadant link to a discussion. http://www.dadant.com/news/epa-okays-oxalic-acid-for-varroa-mite-control I suspect many people will spray after the queen has been removed to eliminate some concerns about oxalic acid use.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

JTGaraas said:


> There are three (3) options available -- a package installation provides the third opportunity for use of oxalis acid by "spray". There is no brood, and the EPA specifically identified it as a opportune time to use a spray rather than dribble or vaporization process. Here is a Dadant link to a discussion. http://www.dadant.com/news/epa-okays-oxalic-acid-for-varroa-mite-control I suspect many people will spray after the queen has been removed to eliminate some concerns about oxalis acid use.


Spraying is fine.......but you have to weigh and mix. Vaporization is easy under a cardboard box. 1/2 gram (1/8 teaspoon) in a vaporizer.


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## JTGaraas (Jun 7, 2014)

Vaporization is exceptionally easy, but the question I have relates to efficiency of process. Are varroa mites killed as a result of the initial air-borne contact to oxalic acid, or a combination of that initial contact PLUS later contact to the resulting crystals everywhere resulting? At least with an initial package spray, a proven method of death to the mite will be assured. If the continued presence of oxalic acid crystals forms part of the oxalic acid weapon, that part disappears after the package is installed - the crystals are in the package box. I wholly endorse vaporization as a means of control now that the process is approved based upon scientific process.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

JTGaraas said:


> Are varroa mites killed as a result of the initial air-borne contact to oxalic acid, or a combination of that initial contact PLUS later contact to the resulting crystals everywhere resulting?


Yes and yes.........


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## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

The reality of it is proper vaporization promotes greater contact with Oxalic acid (OA) crystals to the mites than a spray. When a spray is used particularly on bees in a cluster type situation as in a package, there are areas that can receive little or no contact to the spray. Vapors Permeate the entire package, Leaving a fine coating of OA in everything. Offering a more thorough treatment. That is not to say both are not effective. But if I can combine maximum effect and ease I am going that way every time.


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## Sunflake (Jul 19, 2015)

Ok, so now I'm down to vaporizing under a cardboard box or hiving them and vaporizing the new bees in the new hive. I know just because they are new to me bees,
I'm sure they will be carrying hitchhikers. I'm just planning ahead to try and remove as many hurdles as I can to make the first year as productive as I can. So would you guys hive them and then quickly do it, or under a box before hiving them? With the queen or leave her out of this treatment?


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## drlonzo (Apr 15, 2014)

If it were me, IMHO, I'd remove queen from box of bees, and set under a box and OAV them then replace queen when putting them into the hive.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

I've done it both ways .....vapping the queen in with the package and removing her..... it does not seem to make any difference.


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## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

I too have done it both ways. OAV does not seem to put the queen off laying. And although I have personally not had any problem with package success. In light of the fact that many today are claiming supersedure of package queens. I have begun to rethink the advice I offer. Here is my reasoning. 
The queen is groomed almost constantly, so there is little chance a mite will be on her. A package goes through a lot of stress, even though they seem to be able to tolerate it well. Why expose the queen to any unnecessary stress? At a time that has become to reportedly be questionable for her anyway. At this point I am recommending in my classes that the queen be separated from the package for OAV. I intend to research this this spring. Although I do not need more hives I have ordered 50 packages to observe and try to get a handle on package queen supersedure. I am also incorporating mite loads as a factor. I will also do a sampling with the queen in and out of the mite treatment on those to be treated to see of there is any correlation. . But until I have compiled the information, I am advising to err on the side of caution.


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## dudelt (Mar 18, 2013)

While I have not vaporized a package yet, I would keep the queen away from the process. As stated before, adding one more stress to her is not a good idea. Instead of the cardboard box, I will place the box of bees inside of the empty deep I will be installing them in. I am used to that process so it will feel normal to me. I have also always kept my purchased packages in the hive for a day prior to installing anyways. I have just felt that it gets their scent in the box and makes it more of a home to them once they are installed. I have never had a colony abscond after installation so maybe it makes a difference, or maybe just superstition.


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## Sunflake (Jul 19, 2015)

Has anyone out there used Savogran Oxalic Acid Wood Bleach to vaporize their hives? Or is there something that works better? They also make Oxalic Acid Marine Cleaner. The 12 oz tub of wood bleach makes 1 gallon. The Oxalic Acid marine cleaner only uses 3 tablespoons to make a gallon. I know we're vaporizing it, is one better than the other?


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Sunflake said:


> Has anyone out there used Savogran Oxalic Acid Wood Bleach to vaporize their hives? Or is there something that works better?


Actually Savogran wood bleach is 99.7% pure OA (Brushy Mountain's OA is only 97% pure) so there is really nothing "better." However, BM's OA is the "legally labeled" OA, while Savogran is not. I can't comment on the marine cleaner as I don't know the purity......


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## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

For a good while Wood bleach was all we really had as a reliable source of Oxalic acid. Just remember even though it is the same thing. It is a violation of federal law to use a product contrary to it's labeling.


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