# Long Lang Hive frame question - Michael Bush et.al.



## txbeek (May 21, 2013)

I think I'm going to build some long Lang hives, but welcome advice on frame size. Should I go with medium or deep frames? I plan on going foundationless.

I have one Lang with a deep brood nest, a shallow super, and a medium super (It was a gift along with the hot bees), and one other Lang of medium boxes. So as far as sharing frames, medium seems to make more sense. But the deep frames are the same price unassembled from MannLake, and would provide more comb space per frame. 

Your opinions please, especially Michael Bush.


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## dansar (Jul 25, 2013)

Hi txbeek I have kept bees in langs with full depth foundationless frames. The only way I got the bees to draw the frames out straight was to checkerboard them between drawn frames. The frames that had wire in them were the best. I would go with full depth frames in the long hive. I have made a few of them for people (havent used myself, but planning to this season in New Zealand) and have always made them to full depth frame size and 40 frame capacity.


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## TNTBEES (Apr 14, 2012)

I have 4 long langs. Two are 30 frame and two are 20 frame. I used deeps because those are mostly what I run on reg. langs. When you are working the hives one frame at a time why not use the biggest frame. I'm in Montana so winter survival is the most important aspect, and deep brood nests work best for me. Most of my frames are foundationless, unwired, and I just don't have any comb issues. I also have some top bars and have never had comb issues. I use a plain wood wedge type comb guide on all my frames and have never had a cross comb (knock on wood). I always start new combs in between established straight combs. I don't think it really matters what size frame you use, but I think it is more important to pay attention to the length of the hive. I wouldn't do 20 frames again as it takes no time for them to build out 20 frames and then you are supering and the point is not to super. I would do all 30 frame.


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## beewitched (Apr 15, 2014)

Hi Txbeek, from your neighbor in LaGrange, TX. I thought and researched long & hard before I built my long lang and I decided to go with deep frames & foundation-less and I'm glad I made that decision. 

If you decide to go with medium frames, I think you will find yourself very busy either doing splits or removing honey in order to keep them from swarming because of lack of space. 30 medium frames will just be enough space to hold the brood and 40 mediums will require the hive to be about five feet long.

Just food for thought - good luck, you'll love your long lang(s)


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I think I'm going to build some long Lang hives, but welcome advice on frame size. Should I go with medium or deep frames? I plan on going foundationless.

At the present time the only ones I have bees in are mediums, but that is because that's my standard frame size in my operation. I have some other boxes (that don't currently have bees in them) that are deeps and dadant deeps. There is nothing wrong with any of these. There are more issues with comb support in the deeps. In the dadant deeps I put a cross piece horizontally in the center of the frames to help support the comb. I probably should put a the same in the deeps, but never did. The medium is 33 frames. One of the deeps is 33 frames and one is 22 frames. The dadant deep is 22 frames. They all work.

>I have one Lang with a deep brood nest, a shallow super, and a medium super (It was a gift along with the hot bees), and one other Lang of medium boxes. So as far as sharing frames, medium seems to make more sense. But the deep frames are the same price unassembled from MannLake, and would provide more comb space per frame.

If you intend to have only long hives then I would probably go with deeps. It's not that critical but they are easy to come by and work pretty well. If you intend to have Langstroth hives, I'd make it the same as the brood combs in your other hives for reasons of interchangeability.


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## txbeek (May 21, 2013)

Thanks for the replies, especially Michael. It's great to be able to easily tap such a wealth of experience. 

So the consensus is for deeps, so I will go that route to start. I will also try the cross supports as the heat here this time of year is killer. I have had comb collapse issues in some of my top bar hives, and may try adding some comb supports on comb destined for honey.


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## Patrick in Gizo (Jul 12, 2013)

txbeek said:


> So the consensus is for deeps, so I will go that route to start. I will also try the cross supports as the heat here this time of year is killer. I have had comb collapse issues in some of my top bar hives, and may try adding some comb supports on comb destined for honey.


I have recently built my first long Lang and gone to 40 frames of deeps (actually 20 lang deeps + 18 wider top-bars). With two sliding partitions, can put a hive in both ends and let them expand towards the middle. When one wants more room, the smaller can be transferred out to a deep Lang box. I have installed 2 x 2 foot x 6 inch observation windows, which makes it easy to keep an eye on them.

Living as I do in the tropics, I have had the same problem with over heated hives melting wax. My solution has been to bend roofing iron into a Quonset hut curved roof. That raises the iron off the top and keeps my hive 2 degrees (C) cooler - comb collapse solved.


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## Marysia2 (May 23, 2014)

Patrick in Gizo said:


> I have installed 2 x 2 foot x 6 inch observation windows, which makes it easy to keep an eye on them.
> View attachment 12684


Ok, Patrick...that was kind of sneaky/creepy...clicked on the photo of the pink hive and suddenly seeing a child inside looking back. Don't do that again please , ....


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## Patrick in Gizo (Jul 12, 2013)

Sorry about that Marysia2. That's 1 of my 10 grandchildren, Noilynn. Eight year olds everywhere love having their picture taken. The box is 5 feet long. I had to make sure no one was in it when I closed up my shop.


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## rhaldridge (Dec 17, 2012)

I used deeps on my long hives, for all the reasons cited above. If you're interested in the way I built my long hives, I wrote a little booklet on the design for Kindle, which can be found by searching Amazon for Ray Aldridge.

They've worked out well for me.


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## blamb61 (Apr 24, 2014)

Long lang with 32 deep frames. Can put supers on them. Top pictue had drilled holes in bottom for entrance and didnt cut 1x12 down so extra room between frames and bottom resuting in burr comb. I made two and took bottom off of the one not being used and cut sides to 10 inch to give proper bee space between frames and bottom ( this size gives same room as using a bottom board). I cut the bottom so that it was shorter than the sides for a bottom entrance. I added a spacer around the perimater of the underside of the top to provide bee space and to provide a top opening. Bottom picture is result. Transfered frames to this new set up.


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## Marysia2 (May 23, 2014)

I want to try this as well, but what is the advantage of a long Lang if you are going to super it anyway?


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## blamb61 (Apr 24, 2014)

Marysia2 said:


> I want to try this as well, but what is the advantage of a long Lang if you are going to super it anyway?



I did this because it is easy to move individual frames. I dont have to super but probably will next year because I like to leave 3 boxes worth for them. Still will be easier than normal lange to move frames (not whole box).

I built 2 using :
1-8x4x3/4 sheet of plywood (tops and bottoms)
2- 2x4for stands
3-1x12x 8ft boards for sides, front and back. cut to 10" tall to give space between frames and bottom equivalent of having a bottom board. I cut the inside of the tops of the sides to hold the frames using same dimensions a deep hive body uses. This doesnt give them room to crawl across top of frames though because the plywood top doesnt have extra space above the frames like a normal top cover does. You could make sides higher and the ledge the frames rest on deeper to give them room, but that might make getting frames out harder and you would have to cut the front top to give them a top opening (I used a 3/8 spacer instedead to give them room above the frames and also to make a top entrance).

Cost about $45/each to make including stands which is cheaper than buying 3 boxes/hive.

I am exposed to bees between all frames when open but hasnt been a proble..

I did this for cost and ease of moving frames. Just built this year so dont know the whole story yet since I didnt super it this year and didnt even try to harvest any this year from that hive.


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## BeeAttitudes (Dec 6, 2014)

Resurrecting this old thread. 

I haven't been able to decide if I should use a medium depth frame or a deep frame in a long Lang (newbie, first build, etc.). If I were using a standard Lang I would use all medium frames but I'm going with a long Lang.

Above, Michael Bush suggests that if there is no compatibility reason to use Medium frames, then go with deep frames. So I think that is what I'll do. I guess I can then use a deep Nuc to kick things off and per chance I need to super the long Lang for whatever reason, I can use a super with less frames to keep the weight down. I'll make it 4ft long and maybe I won't need to super. Thoughts?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

A four foot long deep should be manageable without supers. I would use whatever brood frame size you have in your other hives (if you have any) as that will simplify your life greatly.


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