# Varroa Bomb?



## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

SpringGreen said:


> Or could it be that the mites' population exploded that much over the last 3 weeks, since my last check? Are varroa mite bombs characterized by even higher mite counts?


VM's explode this time of year. Brood rearing is decreasing and the mites are "out-rearing" the bees. Be very careful with MAQS. Make sure your o/s temps are within the range recommended for using MAQS as it could kill brood and your queen.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Yes, what Snl said.

Other thing that can happen and I have seen this, is a nearby apiary could have lost some hives to mites. Your bees do some robbing of the near dead hives and bring a whole crap load of mites home with them. This is more common very late fall, but not impossible at this time.


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## burns375 (Jul 15, 2013)

another possibility is there is very low or no brood production. As the hive dies (food supply) so do the mites, so the counts will go up. I doubt this in your case.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

60 over 3 days is 20 per 24 hours. Not unusual in the fall.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Michael Bush said:


> 60 over 3 days is 20 per 24 hours. Not unusual in the fall.


Says who?! For a guy who doesn't count mites this seems like a strong opinion....without any reasoning.
If my mite testing numbers suddenly went up seven fold....it'd get my attention....no matter what time of year. 
To the op....mite drops through screened bottom boards only offer limited information. I would advise an in hive inspection and would recommend a sugar shake/alcohol wash. Fall is bad time to have your mite population explode. And while it may not be unusual.....it often comes at a high price. 
Ignore those mites at your bees' peril.......


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

Do you still have drones? I'm pretty sure when they kick the drones out that there's a major dustup with the mites. If they're pulling drone brood out, the viable mites on the drone pupae scramble for new victims. Quite a few may drop off in the process.

Trust a sugar shake, alcohol wash, etc. more than a natural drop. Drop rates vary all over the place for all kinds of reasons.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Says who?! 

From Phil Craft's presentation at the Ohio State Beekeepers Association meeting:

Natural drop treatment threshold in 24 hours in a bee hive with a population of about 30,000 bees:
3-10 spring
30-60 fall


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Didn't see the presentation but it's maybe a fair rule of thumb, maybe not.

Some other things should be considered, such as what can be seen of a natural mite fall on a board should only be taken as a very rough guide. And secondly that the significance of a particular mite number varies quite a bit depending on viral load in the hive, and thirdly the bee breed plays a part, and then climate ie, will they be raising brood into winter and how much.

So for some people they may be unconcerned with a daily mite drop of 60. Me, if I saw an average daily mite drop of just 20 in fall in my basic Italians and didn't do something about it, I could well have a dead hive by late spring or early summer.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Michael Bush said:


> Phil Craft's presentation at the Ohio State Beekeepers Association meeting:


 I doubt if any responsible beekeeping authority would suggest that a seven-fold increase in mite counts over a three week period is inconsequential.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Oldtimer said:


> So for some people they may be unconcerned with a daily mite drop of 60. Me, if I saw an average daily mite drop of just 20 in fall in my basic Italians and didn't do something about it, I could well have a dead hive by late spring or early summer.


Some of the early work in determining IPM treatment thresholds indicated a Fall drop of 60 - 180 mites (I believe that was the range) was the line in the southeast US. Since that work a number of new parasites/diseases have come along. Small hive beetles, nosema ceranae and a host of bacterial/viral illnesses just to name a few. Each added pressure reduces the bees' ability to deal with any. If that research was conducted today the mite drop numbers would be substantially reduced. 
But all that aside....the op stated that he'd tested every three weeks and suddenly the numbers spiked. And, in my opinion, no thinking beekeeper would ignore that.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Advice to be complacent about mite levels seems to be generally dangerous for hive survival. I know that the Canadian agriculture advice has recently lowered their thresholds for treatment and it surely is a heck of a lot lower than 20 mites a day on a sticky board. 

I did not read the whole site of Phil Craft Hive Craft but here is a quote from his site. "The inspection last fall included varroa mite monitoring.

By far the most important management task that I undertook was treatment for varroa, this was done last fall, after monitoring."

There are many sites than can be searched for mite treatment level and if the search parameters are not biased, I think you will find only a very small percentage that lean towards accepting high numbers.


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## Eddie Honey (May 30, 2011)

Is a sugar shake affected by outdoor humidity levels? If it's a soupy day (common on the east coast) the powdered sugar won't stick to the bees as well and that will skew the count. It would seem alcohol would be more consistent.


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## SpringGreen (Jun 26, 2014)

It very much alarmed me that the counts jumped that much in just 3 weeks. Sugar rolls (done on dryish days -- I don't work bees on hot, humid days for my comfort) also showed a spike. Inspections were good in general. 

My goal is someday TF. But when n=3, ignoring a mite count like that is sheer folly, in my inexperienced opinion. I can see going TF when one has more hives and breeding from survivors....because you have a better chance of having survivors with more hives. But when I have just three hives, even losing one to mites will greatly reduce my numbers and make getting adequate numbers of bees to facilitate splits in the spring difficult. The plan is to split, keeping only one production hive, when I see drones and let the bees raise their own queens to give me at least 10 hives and a handful of nucs, which is about my maximum number that I think I can look after adequately. Then I could take a watch and see attitude and only breed from those with low counts, hygienic behavior, and do well without intervention once I have enough hives. Does that make sense? 

Attempts to introduce other genetics did not go well...an expensive VSH queen went missing, and another was immediately superseded (still have her daughter though). The locally mated daughter of one of the original package queens is doing well. The package queens are doing pretty well too, other than these counts.

I decided to not put MAQS on last week, as we were having some hot and humid days, but this week is going to be great with temps in the 70's with relatively low humidity, so I placed them this afternoon. I didn't notice any excessive noise or frantic behavior from the bees, so with any luck, it will all be fine.

Still have plenty of drones and drone brood..they are not pulling out the drones yet. 

These hives are still actively rearing brood, with two being bigger and stronger than the third. My nucs stopped rearing brood, which has me concerned.

We often have a first frost by October 15 but some weeks of relatively nice weather before winter sets in; sometimes it can snow one day and be 50 degrees the next. So there is plenty of time for them to keep raising winter bees and finish capping honey....and for mites to reproduce. 

It would not surprise me if they were robbing...I know of one commercial beek who has a few hives at an orchard within flying distance...and I know my biggest hive robbed out one of my own nucs earlier this summer, before I could put a stop to it. Durn Italian based mutts.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

SpringGreen said:


> My nucs stopped rearing brood, which has me concerned.


You are right to be concerned, nucs should continue raising brood alongside the bigger ones as they especially need a decent quotient of bees going into winter.
What can stop a nuc making brood early fall is if they perceive they do not have enough food stores. They think they do not have enough to get through winter so stop raising brood to conserve it. To fix this give them some comb honey from the big hives. 

If you need to feed syrup, better do that to the big hives that are more able to defend themselves, and give the nucs comb honey only, during dearth periods.


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## SpringGreen (Jun 26, 2014)

Well, I'm glad I treated. When I pulled the boards while taking the used MAQS pads off, the board numbers are TNTC (!!).

They all look pretty good, other than the one nuc. I couldn't find that nuc's queen, and they have no eggs or brood...I am feeding them, although they are not taking much of it yet packing something away, and I'll combine with the other nuc before winter, as that will help stores. Saw the other nuc's queen, and it now has some capped brood as well as capped syrup.

Hives are heavy and strong. I pulled out all the completely undrawn frames and consolidated things down a bit. I'll feed to top off the partially filled frames and leave them to it.

Something was going on...I saw drones en mass buzzing the entrance. Huge, dark bees. Kinda crazy. Never saw that before.

They weren't as cranky as they were last month. Thank goodness.


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