# 3 legged stool of swarm traps



## hankstump (Jul 30, 2014)

After going over all the key ingredients of a good swarm trap I distilled to these three key factors, in order of importance. 
1. Scent - all of the smells of a good trap
2. Accommodations - Size, entrance, dry, air tight, comb, etc. 
3. Location - Can't catch swarms that aren't there, or that they can't find.

I know this is over simplified, but its more like an outline to follow.
Agree, or do you have a different order of things?

Phil in Fremont


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## bentonkb (May 24, 2016)

In order of importance, I would put location first and scent last.

1. Location
1a. Proximity to mother colony
1b. Elevation off the ground

2. Trap form
2a. Light-tightness
2b. Volume
2c. Opening size
2d. Orientation 

3. Bait
3a. Old comb
3b. Propolis
3c. Scent 

Of course, this is just from my own experience and the only scent lure I've used is LGO. It seems to make a new box more attractive, but has little benefit in a used box with comb and propolis. Swarm commander is supposed to be good stuff, but I don't know if it can draw in a swarm from miles away past other good potential homes.


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

I thought this was going to be about stools to sit a swarm trap on....

Here's my list:

1) Trap needs to be about teh size of a deep
1) Trap needs to have old comb in it
1) Trap needs to have remainder of frames with starter strips on them, not foundation
1) You don't know where other hives are, or feral hives are, so put them out anywhere you can
1) Trap needs Swarm Commander or Lemongrass oil in them, and queen lure is a plus too
1) It's hard to catch bees in traps that never get taken out of the barn

And as a side note, a 3 legged stool works great because having 3 legs, they never wobble.


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## hankstump (Jul 30, 2014)

Bentnkb, 
Thanks for your reply. 

I know all the books, and Thomas Seeley, say that higher is better. but most of my traps have been on a table. but admittedly the spot on my garden shed has been pretty good with about 3 each year. Have you really seen a difference yourself? 

I'm still sticking with the three legged stool architecture of swarm trapping, and like a classic example, all three hold the same weight. 
Your Bait is basically the same list as my Scent. Your trap form is basically the same as my list of Accommodation. And location is always key, as you aren't going to catch swarms that don't exist. 

Thanks. 
Phil


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I think I catch more at 8' up than on the ground, but I don't catch any more swarms at 20' than at 8'. Smell seems to be the most important. Lemongrass oil, QMP, old comb, old box in that order. Size seems to be irrelevant other than, as OD Frank points out, you can't get a large swarm in a small trap... I've caught swarms in five frame deeps, eight frame mediums and ten frame deeps. I have not noticed much of a preference, but the ten frame deeps seem to accommodate a large swarm better.


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## RedBarn (May 31, 2017)

Brad Bee said:


> 1) Trap needs to have remainder of frames with starter strips on them, *not foundation*
> 
> 
> Why not foundation ?


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## Fishmaster50 (Apr 30, 2015)

My guess it makes it feel more open so more room to expand. I have one foundation drawn comb the rest starter strips. Seems to bee working!


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## hankstump (Jul 30, 2014)

to assess the space, the scout bee flies around inside, but also listens to their echo in the space. Too many frames of comb dampens the sound and it doesn't sound as big. Of course this is more important for bigger swarms. But then again, you always want to catch big swarms, right? 

But you certainly need to cover the expanse with frames, as they will build comb at a crazy rate, and if its not frames, it will be your cover that they build off of. 
I put one frame of old black comb against the wall, and one frame with foundation next to that, furthest from the entrance. I theorize that they can control their heat better with that configuration, and have plenty of room for all the rest of the bees in box. They also will start to build on the one frame of foundation next to the comb, and keep that straight. Most of the time, they build out a full box of nice straight comb once they start straight.

Phil in Fremont


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## Braveheart (May 6, 2017)

Phil this post interests me. I have 9 traps out this spring and am new to this having only trapped one swarm last year with one trap. I have put out ten frame brood boxes with one down comb in the middle and the other are nine frames with foundation. I have been wondering if that would limit the bees perceived space when they are checking it out. We are just starting our swarm season here and I have one trap which looks like a swarm is aboutmove in.I will post my success rate with this setup to see if the foundation is a problem. I did not think to use foundation less as it would be easier and cheaper.
Thought ?


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