# Bee Trailer Ideas??



## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

I know we have kicked around trailers before but bear with me.

I have an idea rattling around in my head. I am sure it is being done as I saw a 2 story trailer before.

My colonies are on, and will be on only on 4 way pallets.

I was thinking of a trailer that is 4 parallel rails, wide enough and long enough, to support 4 each 4 way pallets with a 2 foot wide board walk down the middle. 

Pallets would be arranged lengthwise to keep the trailer as narrow as possible. There would be 3 each 16 inch wide walks at right angles to the central board walk between pallet 1 & 2, 2 & 3, and 3 & 4. 

Bed length: 18.0 feet
Bed width: 7.5 feet
Over all lenth: 24 feet
2" ball coupler
Single 2000# axle - torsion
14" wheel/tires


Keep in mind that they would be transported without supers so the weight to be hauled would likely not exceed 1600#.

When parked the bed ends would be supported by crank down RV jacks at all 4 corners.

How wonderful to hook on and follow the flow. Also easy to move to interupt SHB life cycle.

How spendy if you build it yourself (new steel)?

Any ideas and modifications??

Any software out there to design such a beast.


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## Jon McFadden (Mar 26, 2005)

Hi Bruce,
Oh, yes, there is wonderful software to design it. The best being Solidworks. You picked a bad time to build, however. The price of steel has skyrocketed.
Wheels and axles can be had from old pickup trucks. The ones they used around here were farm wagons, but they didn't use pallets. I think your idea is better.
It's been a while since I've looked at one, but as I recall, they used a 4" center pipe for transfering pull between the front and rear axles. I have one down in my lower field. I'll take a trip down there and send you a picture and drawing.
Jon


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Cool....... 

I hear you on steel. Being in the garage door biz I see the hits regularly, especially spring steel.

If I could afford aluminium I would go with that. But I am a hacker at welding aluminimum!! I'd have to farm that out.

I was thinking about having the outer rails bend so they would converge at the hitch. And the 2 inner rails would tack in at the outer angled part.

There would be steel cross boxes down the line.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Forgot to ask......... Where do you get Solidworks?


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## Jon McFadden (Mar 26, 2005)

The Solidworks Personal Edition should be a free program. It is good for 60 days. There is a good onboard tutorial. Get the basics and go from there.
It is possible to get extensions on this.
http://www.solidworks.com/pages/news/3DSkills.html
If your company uses Solidworks, you can get a free home edition through them.
Jon


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## Jon McFadden (Mar 26, 2005)

Bruce,
I was thinking of a full trailer, not a semi-trailer. In that case, you should be able to buy tandem axles at a trailer manufacturing company. We have several of them around here and the guys are always making some odds and ends of stuff.
Doing a semi-trailer would also let you go lower. I've worked bees on a farm trailer (full trailer) and they need to be high enough to clear the steering axle. 
Jon


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

Bruce, I don't know how it is out there, but around here old mobile homes are going for free or less. It costs $300.00 to have one towed to the dump, and the dump charges $500.00 to accept it. People here are glad to find someone to take them for free. Maybe you will want to talk to some of the mobile home dealers in your area.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

I attended a seminar at ABF-Norfolk 1997 where a couple of pollinators in Delaware used old mobile home frames with trailers. Said there were a little sketchy at highway speeds but you were hard pressed to overload them. I like the low to the ground type with a ramp as Hate lifting hives onto a trailer! Pallets are good if you can haul a fork lift. Sundance your trailer sound good. A couple of item I would add is electric brakes to one axle and some type of retractable bear fence set up in case you had to leave them parked in bear country over night.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

The trailer I have in mind is single axle mind you as it will not haul any more than 16 colonies. Or 1600# roughly. 

Honey supering is only done with the RV crank down jacks extended on all corners.

No deck as the pallets will attach directly to the rails. I will load via forklift.

I want a light weight trailer that can be pulled with a little Toyota truck.

I want the ability to more to flows easily.

Small is beautiful.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

The weight you speak of should be no problem for the vehicle brakes. I pictured you hauling the forklift too. My prediction though (only because of my own experiance) is in 5 years it will be 50 or a 100 hives. I started with a 5 X 10. Small is beautiful, at that size they tow so nicely and don't bog you down quickly when you get off the pavement.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

I would go full weight bearing capacity with brakes so that you can haul the trailer back to the extracting house without taking the supers off, and buy a heavier truck, which you will need anyways if you pull the full supers and load them on your truck. 16 X 150 lbs. = 2400lb. If you haul the trailer back to the extracting room to remove them you will save lifting 2400 lbs. several times. Off the hive, onto the truck, onto the pile, off the truck etc.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

I hear you Joel. I already have a double axle 7x18, and a single axle 6x12 and a couple little guys to boot.

The idea is to move... I am working on nice out yards for next year as my 32 is the max I want near the home.

Outyards have nice CRP as well as crops, there I will plant 30 to 40 colonies for most the season.

Small trailers are more to get to nice varital honeys and stay on clover.

In 3 years I hope to have my own 48' flatbed and tractor.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Good idea Oliver. An extra 1500# axle would do the trick.

Even at 3000# my Toyota can handle it. I haul a beavy ol' ditch witch with it and it weigns in at close to 4000#


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

iddee adds:
Bruce, I don't know how it is out there, but around here old mobile homes are going for free or less. It costs $300.00 to have one towed to the dump, and the dump charges $500.00 to accept it. People here are glad to find someone to take them for free. Maybe you will want to talk to some of the mobile home dealers in your area.

tecumseh replies:
the rims on a house trailer are often referred to as slip rims. the tires that are typically mounted on these rims are considered to be 'temporary' tires and should never be used for long transport. you can (i have) modify these trailer axles by changing out to 15" six hole hubs and rims. these house trailer spindles are exacly the same as a 5000# axle. you have to acquire two hubs and two sets of bearings to make the conversion. normally at least one axle on an old trailer is equipped with electric brakes. brakes are essential. always design your trailer to hold a minimum of twice the anticipated load.

if you think you might utilize house trailer axle, drop me a line and I will look up in my trailer supple catalog (Trailer Supply) the appropriate bearing that you would need to make the conversion.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

I would be more than happy to utilize mobile home trailer axles. But not willing to drag the whole pile to my place!! I have enought crap here already.







.

Maybe these dumps where they land would sell the axles cheap??

Thanks for the offer tecumseh, I will let you know.

After thinking about hauling the whole trailer back for super removal I have nixed that idea. I will have a forklift and super removal will not be an issue.

All future yards will not be too far away. Most will be off dirt roads and the trailers will hardly ever see blacktop.


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## BubbaBob (Jan 18, 2005)

All of my hive trailers are rebuilds of used mobile homes. Each is a two axle trailer with space for 20 hives and a tool box with jack, spare tires (2), bee stuff, etc.

When I set the trailer down on fairly flat ground the rear of the trailer is within 1 inch of truck tailgate height...I work the hives from the truck...no up and down with full supers.

The reg axles, hubs, and wheels are fine. First, you probably will not be going longer distances than they are designed for...trailers are often delivered 500-1000 miles...and a complete mobile home weighs far more than 20 hives/supers.

BubbaBob


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

BB..... Do your trailers tend to veer right?


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

HAHAHA Ha Ha Ha HA - Now that's funny!  
Good one Bruce!


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

Hey, guys, mine and bubba's trailers always veer right, that's why we try to always put the brakes on the left.


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## BubbaBob (Jan 18, 2005)

Dang...iddee beat me to it.

BubbaBob

PS...at least I don't wet the bed...LOL


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

My favorite option on my trailer is the removable hitch. I sleep better knowing that a trailer russler doesn't have one that fits.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

That is a great idea Bill. How many channels do you use? I was thinking of 3.

Otherwise I was planning on pulling the wheels and coupler.


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

>How many channels do you use?

 channels where?

Go to my site / equipment / tools and look at a picture of the reciever hitch.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Yours is much too fancy for what I have in mind. There would be no deck because it would carry only palletized colonies.

I should have said box channel. Mine will have 3 each 2x4 channels. Center will have coupler. The outer 2 will be bent in and meet behind the coupler much like yours.

Nice trailer Bill!


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## notaclue (Jun 30, 2005)

Jon
Will this software work even for us that are totally mechanically inept and don't have a clue?

David


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## Kenai (Mar 10, 2005)

Solidworks is in my opinion the best and only 3-D modeling program out there. I work for a University Engineering department that solely uses Solidworks. 

With that said, I have never used the personal version. But about a year and a half ago, I started from scratch learning the full version of Solidworks (I already knew some AutoCad). After about 6 months, I felt pretty comfortable. IMO, you are not going to open Solidworks and start designing right away. Your time would be better spent, getting your ideas down on paper with a pencil and ruler. 

Once you have your design fairly complete, let me know and if you are still convinced that you want a CAD drawing I might be able to help you out. I am very busy until the middle of September, but after that might do it just for the fun of it. You can download a viewer (SolidWorks E-Drawings) from the Solidworks website so you would not need to purchase any software.

Let me know.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Thanks Kenai....... I was intimidated just looking at the Solidworks site.

My main concerns are axle placement in relation to the load to assure proper tongue weight.


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## Kenai (Mar 10, 2005)

SolidWorks can Calculate the Center of Gravity from a model(Assuming you can specify the materials that you plan to use). I think that the main issue would be to determine the minimum required capacity of the axle (plus a safety factor). From there, it would be a piece of cake.


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## Kenai (Mar 10, 2005)

Oops, sorry. I ment the Maximum weight of the trailer to size the axle, plus a safetly factor.


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## Keith Benson (Feb 17, 2003)

Anyone have any thoughts on these? I am likely to be too small potatoes to bother with one, but the idea is neat.

http://beesupply.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=49&products_id=223

Keith


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Keith,

Saw that very one on ebay quite awhile back. Thats what sparked my interest.

I do not like the 2 story set up though. The thought of working supers off that sounds horrible!

But yes......... the frame is basically what I am shooting for but single story, clamp down 4 way pallets.


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## Keith Benson (Feb 17, 2003)

Bruce - he can make them in any configuration you want. The cost is in most of the stuff underneath rather than the top rack. I asked for a quote on a single story oe for 12-16 hives and it was 19 hundred and change. Very nice guy - got me a quote in <2 hours.

Keith


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Preliminary (very preliminary) estimate for me to build my own with all new material is a bit less than $600. Not including paint. 

I am going to coat mine with spray on truck bed liner (I do that on the side).


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## Keith Benson (Feb 17, 2003)

Nice - that coating is incredibly rugged. I trust there will be pics when you are done??

Keith


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Absolutely........ will not be completed until next spring at the earliest though. Money priorities will be into boxes, frames, and such first.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

That's a pretty good price Bruce. I paid $1200 for my 5 X 10 and $2200 for my 8 X16 Ft. Not to mention the self satisfaction of building it custom. I added rebar rails for tie downs and a tool box on the hitch for mine.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

There isn't much to the trailer thus far Joel. Preliminare estimate mind you.

So far:

3 each 24'- 3 x 1 1/2" Rect Tubes $205.92
4 each 4'- 3 x 1 1/2" Rect Tubes $ 69.02
1 each 2000# Axle w/Hubs & Springs $149.99
2" Coupler $28.00
Fenders $12.99
2 each Tires on rims $85.00
45# Urethane Bed Liner with primer coat $135.00

So far *$685.92*

Over all length is just shy of 24 feet with deck area being 18 feet X 4 feet

It will hold 4 each 4 way pallets or 16 colonies.

To access the colonies there are 3 each 26" wide "catwalks". Pallets and catwalks are orientatied parallel to the axles.

May put lights on..... not sure though.

Licences not required on small trailers here.

Forklift loaded so no ramp needed. Can place supers off my Toyota flatbed. 

Keep in mind there is no deck, just tubes. Deck is not needed with pallets.


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

if you are using the single axle design you will likely need to place the axle about 60% towards the rear of the trailer since you need a bit of tongue weight to give you good tracking. in my experience a single axle trailer is difficult to back up and a three axle trailer is impossible.


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## power napper (Apr 2, 2005)

I would go for a used dual axel, electric brakes camper trailer frame assembly. They are built for running on the road without hassles. Have a twenty one foot camper frame sittin in field that I hope someday to make a honey house out of. Around here they go for five to seven hundred dollars and with title you can easily put plates on it.


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

Bruce, having owned thirty or more tag-along trailers of various sorts, and now own around 12 or 14, I will say this. If you ever pull a dual axle with electric brake, you will not buy anything else that is more then 8 feet long. I have had them try to pass the towing vehicle too many times to ever pull another heavy load without brakes. It is no fun. A dual axle is easier to hook up, pulls smoother, and sits leveler than a single axle, besides the extra capacity. 
Plus, when your neighbor wants to pay someone 200,00 to move an 8 X 10 outbuilding, you won't be volunteering with a single axle. Nor all the other side jobs I do to pay for my trailers.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Thanks iddee....... This one is not going to see much highway travel. But I see the wisdom of them.

If I can scrape up another $250 by spring I will probably do it.

I amy also bump up the gauge of the tubing.

And I noticed your post did not contain any gremlins!!


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## Lew Best (Jan 8, 2005)

I'd DEFINITELY go with tandem axles; far more stability!!!!!!!!

Lew


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

I have dumped this trailer plan in favor of the other one I started a thread on.

Double axles will be a must on that one as it will carry 32 colonies.


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## Lew Best (Jan 8, 2005)

Just a thought; trailer house axles can be had real cheap in my neck of the woods. I bought pair with springs & everything for about 25 bux at an auction recently. Even have brakes (reason I bought them; have a trailer with similar axles & can't keep the surge brakes working; these are electric). Lots of folks don't like mobile home wheels/tires but they're easy to find used & I've been up to the weight capacity (10k gvw) several times with no problems.

Lew


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

I will keep my eye open for them...... I'd buy several if I can find em' cheap.


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

When your trailer starts to pass you at 70 miles per hour and you don't have trailer brakes, these may fit, but the smiley face absolutely does not.


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## Lew Best (Jan 8, 2005)

Sundance I sent you a pm.

Lew


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## t0k (Oct 16, 2004)

here's something to look at

there is no english explanation /me thinks
page 1
page 2
page 3 

and yes... that's not mine, i'll be making a trailer (or buying) this winter so.. i find this to be interesting


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

t0k.......... Very interesting........ Thank you.

Looks a bit too high for adding and removing supers though. Hard on the back.


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## BEAVERSQUEEZER (Aug 20, 2005)

SUNDANCE
The axle placement on a trailer is TWO/THIRDS OF OVERALL LENTH OF TRAILER.If your trailer is 21'long from tip to tail your axle IS PLACED 14'BACK FROM HITCH. If you are going to run two axle's the spring hanger between the 2 is placed there have built several trailers and was schooled by a man who was alive when the wheel was invented why its 2/3rds the total length don't know but it works hope this helps


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Thanks........ What is the tongue length as a fraction of overall length?


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

like the link tox?

quality trailer was who I use to get axle from and I think the brake option (electric) was about an extra $100 bucks, and you had to add another $100 bucks for the actuator in the cab. brakes are primarily essential when you are running an uneven loan even at low speed. when the uneven force of the load shift as you actuate the truck brakes and this momentum is transmitted thru the ball of the truck you will get this wild side to side motion in the back of the bed. kind of like a horse trying to kick his way out of a barn. in a one ton like I drive it is a bit scary. in anything the size of a half ton it would likely be deadly.

definitely up the size of the tube to whatever you can afford (although I don't think you plans specified quage or thickness.


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