# birds



## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

Are you sure they are finches and sparrows?

I have been watching my nesting phoebe's and bluebirds munchin' on the bees, even a few swallows, but not the seed eaters.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I have a few finches (most have been chased off by the sparrows) and lots of sparrows and starlings. They love the chicken feed.

I've never seen them eating the bees. Maybe they would eat a dead one, but I haven't seen them do it.

I've never felt bad about disposing of sparrows and starlings. They are not native and they drive off all of the native songbirds that I would like to have around.


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

Here is a tid-bit.

Did you know that sparrows and starlings are the only two birds in America that are not protected? According to the instructions that came with a sparrow trap I bought, sparrows and starlings may be disposed of, but all other birds must be released.

They stated that they are not native to America and are nuscence birds. Tree huggers that they are, they suggested taking them to someone elses backyard and releasing them.







yeah, right...


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## dcross (Jan 20, 2003)

Try a plastic shopping bag on a tall stick, so it flaps in the wind.


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## chemistbert (Mar 4, 2004)

A .22LR is WAY more fun than a plastic bag.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Did you know that sparrows and starlings are the only two birds in America that are not protected? According to the instructions that came with a sparrow trap I bought, sparrows and starlings may be disposed of, but all other birds must be released.

Where do you buy a sparrow trap?


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## honeyman46408 (Feb 14, 2003)

Where did you buy a sparrow trap and how does the plastic bag on a stick work?


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## clintonbemrose (Oct 23, 2001)

A large stuffed owl or hawk placed on the hive will work to scare them off. I have even seen plastic ones in stores and garden centers.
Clint


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Clinton Bemrose
just South of Lansing Michigan


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

>Where do you buy a sparrow trap?

The Purple Martin Conservation Association sells products for people who provide homes for purple martins. 

Contact them either by phone: 1.814.734.4420 or by web site: www.purplemartin.org 

The trap is called a Repeating Bait Trap, when I bought mine in 2001 the price was $50.00

They also have some cheaper traps that only catch two sparrows at a time and one that is a nest box trap that will catch both.

This one takes you right to the traps: http://www.purplemartin.org/shop/Traps1.html 

[This message has been edited by BULLSEYE BILL (edited May 11, 2004).]


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Thanks.


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## SantaCruzBee (Apr 23, 2004)

Just to set the record straight. There are plenty of protected sparrows in the US, just not english sparrows. There are also many different unprotected birds in the US, pretty much all non-native birds, except non-native, but deliberately established and accepted gamebirds such as chukar partridges and ringneck pheasants. Other unprotected birds include various parrot-types, such as the Quaker parakeet which I believe has even established flocks in such cold states as New York and Illinois.


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## dcross (Jan 20, 2003)

Basically, you just put a bag where it will flap in the slightest breeze, but not blow away. I've seen them stuck between the inner and outer cover to keep a woodpecker away from the back of the hives. Birds are skittish, and don't like the movement and noise. On the other hand, I went to a farm auction a few weeks ago, there were some strange looking things covered in bird doo hanging all over the machine shed. It took us a while to realize they were owl statues


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## JohnBeeMan (Feb 24, 2004)

> Basically, you just put a bag where it will flap in the slightest breeze

A couple of aluminum pie pans hanging from a near by tree limb so that they form a type of wind chime should also work.

Or any of the other tricks used for protecting fruit trees - including nets.


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## John Russell (Aug 8, 2003)

Thanks guys, for the advice. 
I strung a mess of orange tape up on stakes to flap in the wind. I'll upgrade to pie plates because it seems the motion and noise combo works quite well. Yesterday we recieved a foot of snow, so hopefully the little buggers moved on to a more available food source if the bees were all clustered. 
I'm not sure on the species of these birds, but they are very small to small sized, brown, and lighter shaded than sparrows. 
I just call them @%$$^$&* 'ing birds.

J.R.


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

>Just to set the record straight. 

Please see this sentence in the article below, "Pigeons, starlings and house sparrows are not protected; upland game birds are protected by Kansas regulations."

>Nuisance Birds
6/26/2002 4:00:14 PM

Overview: The Migratory Bird Treaty Act (MBTA) of 1918 was passed for the protection of migratory birds. The MBTA is still in effect. 

Affected activities for Fort Riley: The MBTA prohibits the disturbance of a migratory bird and, generally, the disturbance of a migratory birds nest regardless of whether the nest is being used or not. The MBTA applies equally to birds residing in or around residential and non-residential areas. 


Almost every species of bird on Fort Riley is listed as migratory. The exceptions are: pigeons, starlings, house sparrows, and upland game birds such as the bobwhite quail. Pigeons, starlings and house sparrows are not protected; upland game birds are protected by Kansas regulations.


Violations/Penalties: Anyone who violates the MBTA or its regulations is guilty of a misdemeanor and subject to a fine of up to $15,000, jail up to six months, or both. In addition, anyone who knowingly takes a migratory bird and intends to, offers to, or actually sells or barters the bird is guilty of a felony, with fines up to $15,000, jail up to two years, or both.


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## mattoleriver (Sep 20, 2003)

Bullseye Bill,
if you ever hunt out of state be careful about any pigeons that you may shoot. Band-tailed pigeons are migratory birds and are protected, as such, in states where they occur. Hunting seasons and bag and possession limits are enforced. We have them in the west coast states and I believe they are also found in the Rocky Mtn states.
George


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

The only game birds I shoot are dove, quail, pheasants, duck, and goose.

However my buddy shot a meadowlark (state bird







) when we were shootin prairie rats a couple years ago. You could not even immagine what a 35 grain v-max will do out of a .17 Remington @ 15 yards! Unbelieveable! That immage will NEVER leave me. POOOOFF!


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## ckinser (Feb 7, 2002)

i have seen plastic owls work very well. Put three of them on posts apart on the edges of the apiary. it takes three because the birds can recognize a dummy, what they cant do is recognize one that is in thier blind spot, they know it is there but cant look at all three owls at the same time. I saw this used to my amazement on blueberry bushes.


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## wayacoyote (Nov 3, 2003)

Protected birds: yes, all native North american birds are protected by the Migratory Bird Treaty signed between our country and others. This protects our birds as they season in other contries and vice=versa.

Scare tactics: there are electronic/ sonic deterents which might work (don't know how they will effect the bees). But most visual and sound deterents should be rotated occassionally as the birds eventually figure things out when a plastic owl never moves.

An alternative: dip your bees in hot sauce as they come out of the hives.


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## John Russell (Aug 8, 2003)

Heres an update:

The flapping surveyors tape did ok. 
Discouraged about 1/2 of the birds.
Shortly after, a flock of grackles moved in and because they are teritorial, they drove the smaller finch/sparrows out. The grackels leave the hives alone, so once again, Mother Nature balances out. It seems the differance of migratory arivals inspires balance. 

J.R.


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## Michael Grodeman (May 22, 2004)

Umm, birds like hot sauce, dipping the bees in hot sauce would only get you stung, get your bees upset, and make the birds happyer as your providing them with a more flaverfull snack.


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## BEEn Stung (May 17, 2003)

I go along with the 22 rifle. It is very selective. You only get the bad guy. Nice pracitce also.

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Erwin


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## marsue (Apr 12, 2004)

I have purple martin houses and have been killing starlings and sparrows for years. Shooting always seems like a nice idea but after you get the first one they wise up. I have a .22 and a .17 calbier(very accurate) rifles that I use to shoot from my upstairs windows and have to waste a lot of time geting off a good shot. They are very small and sit on the bird houses. My repeating starling trap and my sparrow traps are the best. You can find them in the purple martin web site catalogue. 

Martin 
Central Wisconsin


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