# To Paint or Not To Paint



## Ravenzero (Sep 26, 2012)

Theres a notion out there that painting retains moisture in the hive, which could be dangerous in winter. Most people who want to keep Top Bar beekeeping as natural as possible use a mixture of tung oil or boiled linseed oil mixed with beeswax. Protects the wood, and lets it breathe....so to speak.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Try some of these threads...

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?263052-Painting-Hives&highlight=painting

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?249887-Painting-hive-boxes&highlight=painting

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?198373-painting-hives&highlight=painting

Ed

ETA: These links aren't TBH specific, but rather general paint info that tends to be geared more toward Langstroth hives...


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## JOANR (Jan 7, 2013)

That was alot of information...I think i will paint...lol


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Good choice, JOANAR. All my woodenware (except for an odd piece here and there) are cypress but I primed and painted it. So far I have used Kilz II as a primer but have read some negative remarks about it and will be using Zinser 1-2-3 waterbased primer from here on out. The paint that I've been using is premium Valspar that has primer already in it. It is a one-coat paint and lays down a nice coat of paint. I've been very pleased with it so far. 

My oldest boxes have only been out in the elements for a year and three months so really not a long term evaluation (I'm wondering about the Kilz) but as I insinuated, they're still looking good. 

I have one or two boxes that I needed before I could get paint on them and even though they are cypress they are showing weathering...some splitting and cracking in the surface is evident...nothing that is weaking the structure, but that over a period of time probably will. When I get a chance I'm pulling them out of service and slopping on some primer/paint.

I have painted most of my boxes with them sitting on a counter propped up on little pieces of wood. I did the same with my bottomboards and tops and any other hive part. In one painting session I decided to make two stacks out of the supers that I was painting and paint them all at once. I primed each box before I stacked and painted (included the edges). I didn't get back to those boxes after I painted them for a month or two. By then the stacks were more or less one solid piece...the paint is a great glue...I could carry an entire stack as one unit.  But, they popped loose easy enough. I am definitely going to use the board between two supports method the next time I paint (which I need to do soon).

I initially painted the edges with box primer and paint. The last few painting sessions I just primed them and let it go at that...the Valspar is some thick paint and tended to make the boxes stick together a lot.

If you want to "decorate" your boxes, or maybe paint bottom boards or queen excluders or some other small part a different color Home Depot sells little "sample" containers of exterior paint that you can get tinted in any color that they sell. Lowe's has small sample containers, too, but I'm not sure if there's state as being exterior. Hmmm, or that could be right opposite...so much for my memory!  Well, I just typed that and remembered once again that you're working with TBH's...I guess you could use the "samples" for trim work or for painting bees and flowers on your hive.  Best wishes, Ed


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## BayHighlandBees (Feb 13, 2012)

just paint the outsides. The insides can absorb moisture and breathe with the hive if unpainted on the inside


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Not painting is much less work...


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## brettj777 (Feb 27, 2013)

I painted mine. I can attest to the fact that it is more work. But I also know how poorly unfinished wood (i used pine) fares in the Wisconsin weather. For me it meant a nice looking hive that would not need to be replaced as soon, and or have the leg rot out from under it (as readily).

Repainting with 20,000 of your best friends watching you didn't seem like an awesome idea either....


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## JOANR (Jan 7, 2013)

Funny!


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## beepopnc (Jan 10, 2012)

The one thing I would NOT do again is use boiled linseed oil and beeswax! I did two TBH's and a nuc with that stuff a year ago and they all are turning black with dirt streaks and mildew. I liked the initial natural wood look but now they look terrible and are getting worse everyday.

Funny, I was just experimenting with various methods of trying to remove the BLO and BW finish today and somebody else is recommending it.:scratch: I plan to replace it with transparent Cabot Deck and Fence Stain, if I can get the old finish off. 

Sounds like you are having fun getting ready for your bees...now if the NC weather would just warm up. Today, I heard that this is the 8th coldest March here in the last 69 years!


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## JOANR (Jan 7, 2013)

My bees arrive in mid April...so very soon. I am almost ready. Here in WNC today is supposed to be 49 to 50 and it is just getting warmer from there. Come on Spring!


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## shannonswyatt (May 7, 2012)

I hate painting, but unpainted wood looks pretty bad after a year. Not that it would fall apart but it looks bad. If you are buying premium latex full price versus not painting, you may loose money in the long run on paint. But if you get your paint as miss-tints at the big boxes it cost almost nothing (but your time). I was hoping to con my kids into painting, but I got about half of one coat on one hive painted that way.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

..wyatt, I have a friend who was shopping at one of the large discount stores. He had his three-year-old son with him. As they passed by toys or whatever his little boy would naturally come out with "I want one!". My friend would keep on going and respond with "No job, no toy". This happened several times during the shopping trip. When they got to the checkout the 3 yo did get a small pack of M&Ms which he handed to the checkout clerk who then handed it back to the child. The young boy quickly said "Thank you". This impressed the clerk who then looked in the buggy and exclaimed "Why, you don't have a toy in there!". To which the 3-year-old responded...."No job...no toy!". Naturally, the clerk chided his daddy for being a mean person but my friend just smiled. The boy now has several jobs...picking up toys all along, throwing trash in wastebaskets, picking up a few dirty clothes, etc.,. He doesn't do a great job at it, but he makes some effort...and he gets a nickle or so doing "the job" and along the way learns what "value" is. Now, when they go to the store he has his own money (that he "worked" for...and which his daddy adds to  ). But, this little boy is learning that you work for things...that there's no such thing as a free ride.

Hmm, your kids have any video games, favorite television programs, favorite McDonalds meal, favorite...???? Don't con'em...give'em a job...if a 3-year-old can figure it out... 

Ed

PS...if you institute some form of this "work for money(toy?)" method please don't give them my name or location.


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## BayHighlandBees (Feb 13, 2012)

I just used the leftover exterior latex paint that was used on the house the last time it was painted. It was free and makes my hive blend in to its surroundings (in my case its next to my house).

Depending on your neighbors you may or may not want your hive to be easily noticeable or recognizable. Just something to factor in when considering getting the odd 'off colors' from the box stores. If your hives are out in the middle of a field on a farm then its no problem.


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## Adam Foster Collins (Nov 4, 2009)

I have 5 tbh's. The first two I made, I never painted, but used a poly finish to keep the 'wood-look'. The next three I stained with a solid stain. Looking at them all, I wish I had stained them all.

The 'wood-look' can get pretty dumpy looking once the water/sun set. The stained ones look great.

Adam


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## Solarbeez (Apr 20, 2012)

beepopnc said:


> The one thing I would NOT do again is use boiled linseed oil and beeswax! I did two TBH's and a nuc with that stuff a year ago and they all are turning black with dirt streaks and mildew. I liked the initial natural wood look but now they look terrible and are getting worse everyday.


I can attest to that...the Boiled Linseed Oil and melted Bees Wax look a beautiful golden color when first applied, but after about a year starts getting black...not pretty...but what to use that's looks nice, weathers well, and is not harmful to bees crawling all over it?


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

Sealing the exposed end grain will help to prevent moisture from entering the joints.

I smear Titebond III over the exposed end grain of all of my assemblies. I also apply a bead/fillet of glue along all inside corners. It may seem excessive but when the joints are nearly impermeable to moisture it helps... 

I don't have TBH's but I have been a yacht refinisher/foreman. A sound, stable surface is easier to beautify and protect.


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## rhaldridge (Dec 17, 2012)

I painted these long hives, but I felt I needed to, because they are plywood with solid timber stringers (background in boatbuilding too.)









I'm hoping the covers of galvanized roofing will keep rain off completely, but this is a humid climate here along the Gulf.

I'd hoped to avoid painting my Langstroth hives, because they are made of cypress, but I've learned that modern cypress is not as resistant to deterioration as the cypress that used to be available, so I painted them too. I used Behr exterior primer and exterior satin enamel, thinking that maybe the smoother surface would be more resistant to mildew.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

rhaldridge, go ahead and paint them...better now than when they're growing mold and mildrew. 

My woodenware is from Rossman (cypess) but it's not old growth stuff. I've got one or two boxes that I had to use before painting...they're not aging very gracefully.

ed


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## Benthic (May 1, 2011)

After reading this thread, and the threads linkined in post 3, I'm beginning to rethink the finish on my hive. I have cypress woodenware, and the only finish I put on is boiled linseed oil (no wax or turpentine). I just wiped it on with a cloth. They looked great at first. But now they've been in service for about a year and are beginning to show mildew.

I bought some additional boxes recently, and finished them the same way. They haven't gone on the hives yet, so they still look nice. I'm thinking I'll sand them and try again with an exterior stain or paint. Then I can rotate them in, and refinish the original boxes.

Brian


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## throrope (Dec 18, 2008)

IMHO painting cypress provides the keeping with better appearance, but doesn't do anything for the bees. I have both pine and cypress and only used deck sealant. Yes, they're getting a little dark, but all still solid after a near a decade.

Plywood is another story. Without a finish, kiss it goodbye.

Paint or no paint, sheet metal on top is the only thing that lasted for me.

I also doubt the color makes any meaningful difference with hive temperature. They'll fan if its hot and cluster if not.

For me its about advertising. Everyone will know what bright white boxes are. Not many will see natural wood and less will know what they are.


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## rhaldridge (Dec 17, 2012)

Intheswamp said:


> rhaldridge, go ahead and paint them...better now than when they're growing mold and mildrew.
> 
> My woodenware is from Rossman (cypess) but it's not old growth stuff. I've got one or two boxes that I had to use before painting...they're not aging very gracefully.
> 
> ed


Mine are from Rossman too. I painted them.

Ray


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

For langstroths in my climate, unpainted lasts less than 1/2 as long as painted. What I do is paint inside the joints before assembly, then after assembly paint the outside. The bees do the inside with their own stuff. A couple coats of a good quality paint is cheap in the long run, both in materials, and labor. Plus after a couple of years in the weather unpainted can look downright ugly.

Top bars may be a slightly different matter, as they are lifted high off the ground plus their shape might be better for resisting the weather. But I haven't been involved with TBH's long enough to know. Some of the painted ones look pretty!



beepopnc said:


> The one thing I would NOT do again is use boiled linseed oil and beeswax! I did two TBH's and a nuc with that stuff a year ago and they all are turning black with dirt streaks and mildew. I liked the initial natural wood look but now they look terrible and are getting worse everyday.


Can vouch for that. I have some long hives in the back yard & thought I would do something special for them, so instead of painting put many coats of linseed oil on them. They are built of pine and cypress, and at first looked stunning. Now though, they look totally disgusting, kinda black and gross, couldn't really be worse. If I can find a paint suitable to go over old linseed oil I'll be fixing them.


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## gtp086 (Jun 19, 2012)

A local sideline beekeeper said she gets her paint from the the local (municipal or county or disposal company's) toxics disposal facility rather than buying it. 

Michael Bush has a few things to say about dipping your woodware in a molten blend of resin and (bees)wax. You get a 'natural' look, and suppress degradation. 

If you boxes are deteriorating from too much moisture, perhaps your hives are not getting enough ventilation. If I get mildew or set spots on the underside of my top cover I know the bees need more air. I use slabs of plywood with either two 1/8" thick shims at the front, or at all four corners if the hive is booming. 

Mann Lake sells Copper Naphthanate in buckets. I saw a hive top, box, and bottom treated with it in their store in Woodland, Ca. a couple of months ago. It's terrible smelling stuff, and I wouldn't personally use it on boxes for bees producing honey for me. (I haven't thoroughly researched it. Maybe it's only approved for pollination colonies.) The pressure treated lumber that's good for 30 years in the ground is treated with CN.

Make your own boxes from Teak... or old-growth Redwood... or Ipy... 
Those woods are pretty resistant to moisture. 

btw... Serge Labesque only paints the corners of his boxes because he believes it's important for the wood to absorb moisture/condensation in the hive... like in a tree.

Jerry


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## shannonswyatt (May 7, 2012)

Good call on the disposal paint. I get miss-tints from the big boxes. Last year Lowe's had a 5 dollars off per can of paint. There miss-tints are 5 a gallon. I was able to get a gallon of 35 dollar paint for 30 cents after the rebate. I live very close to a Lowe's, it is actually the closest store of any kind to my house, so I'm there often (too bad they don't have bread and milk as well), so I'm able to check fairly often.


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## eukofios (Apr 14, 2013)

Thanks to everyone on this thread, from a complete novice. I thought the cedar wood of my new hive was beautiful, but the long term utility and durability were a big factor. The climate here in maritime Pacific NW tends to make wood rot. It can be pretty moldy/ mildewy here. So I broke down and painted the hive with a white exterior latex, after first priming with latex primer. I bought the small size pain can, so it wasn't too expensive.

I am happy with the looks, at least for now. The important thing is whether it's good for the bees.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Well it looks pretty, what's the lid?


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## eukofios (Apr 14, 2013)

The lid is a sheet of copper. Actually, 2 small sheets. Given the usual constant rain from Oct through April, a waterproof lid seemed reasonable. It might be excessive - this is my first beehive, so I don't know if that will matter or not. It might outlast me.



Oldtimer said:


> Well it looks pretty, what's the lid?


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## LaReine (Feb 9, 2012)

Is have a related question. I just built a new tbh from pine, but before I could paint it a swarm appeared in my yard! I am waiting for the swarm to march into the new hive as I type this. But now I am wondering if it will be safe to paint the hive after the bees move in?


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

One time when I was waiting for someone to come & get a hive they had bought I noticed on the super, a few blemishes in the paint & decided to give it a quick flick with the paint brush. Bad idea. Unbelievable how many silly little bees were able to get their wings stuck in the paint, and not only end up trapped but also mess up the paint job. Plus crap in it just for good measure.

Although on thinking about it, if you could use a quick drying paint that would dry in say, 1/2 hour, once the hive is established maybe you could block them in one morning, paint it, then unblock once dry enough. With most paints you would have to do it twice.


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## LaReine (Feb 9, 2012)

Thanks for the suggestion, Oldtimer. I would just as soon not have my hive decorated with dead bees. BTW, I plan on using some cheap exterior latex house paint for the hive, no primer, which has worked well for me previously. I figure I could block them in at around twilight, when I can just see enough to paint, and then let it dry overnight. Things dry fast in western Colorado (opposite of eukofios' climate).


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Sounds like a plan!


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