# Horizontal hive (long lang) plans and pics



## cavscout

I'm looking for plans and pics, please share. Thanks!


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## Scott Gough

Have you checked out horizontalhive.com? Here is a link to the plans portion of the site...

http://horizontalhive.com/how-to-build/hive-frame-swarm-trap.shtml


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## GaryG74

Horizontalhive.com has a couple different plans for horizontal hives. I think they have one that takes regular Langstroth frames, in addition to the plans for the extra deep frames.


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## hankstump

I built a 32 frame long hive last winter, and put the bees in there in February. They have been very very productive ever since. I haven't pulled honey yet, but have pulled over a dozen frames from the brood chamber for trap outs, splits, and bolstering faltering swarms that I have caught. Can't say that they have been very mellow, as I get stung almost every time I'm in the hive. I went to pull some honey in May, and found brood in the 28th frame, so only pulled one full frame at the time. Not sold that its the best hive yet, but its certainly easier to steal brood comb than taking off a couple of boxes. 

Cheers, Phil


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## JeronimoJC

Some end up placing supers on top to keep the brood below and honey frames above. you may want to consider some of these things when you pick your design.


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## beez2plz

Me too! However, I am wanting specifically to know if there is a way to use 3 or so 8-frame Langstroth deeps to cobble together a horizontal (because I am downsizing to all mediums and would like to utilize my deep equipment). I've also decided to go "foundationless" so will be losing money on those components as well. I imagine the finished product may not be aesthetically pleasing, but if the bees take to it that will be a winner for me!


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## Nordak

hankstump said:


> I built a 32 frame long hive last winter, and put the bees in there in February. They have been very very productive ever since. I haven't pulled honey yet, but have pulled over a dozen frames from the brood chamber for trap outs, splits, and bolstering faltering swarms that I have caught. Can't say that they have been very mellow, as I get stung almost every time I'm in the hive. I went to pull some honey in May, and found brood in the 28th frame, so only pulled one full frame at the time. Not sold that its the best hive yet, but its certainly easier to steal brood comb than taking off a couple of boxes.
> 
> Cheers, Phil


Hey Phil,

Do you have inner covers in sections over the frames? I buily mine with coroplast inner covers the size of 8 frame equipment, with the exception of the back inner cover which is closer in size to 10 frame. If I remove and replace inner covers as I inspect, their mood is about on par with my TBHs.


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## razoo

I built a horizontal hive from that website. Such a pleasure not needing to lift heavy boxes. 
I agree with Nordak, the HH hive does need inner covers(not included in the plans). I put mesh over the inner cover hole to keep the bees below. That made a big difference. The bees don't get uptight when I open the lid.


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## MartinW

Michael Bush has a long-Lang parts lists and photos on his web site on the bottom of the top bar page. Tanzania top bar hive sized for medium frames. Good luck.


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## hankstump

I put all the bells and whistles on mine, and just finished up going into the hive. Here's a rundown of what I have. 

32 frames, all deeps. 

I put in removable boards to mimic an inner cover. Mine are 6" wide board, and I used 1/2"EMT pipe clamps as finger pulls on each one. The bees do put in a lot propylis and glue the top boards down pretty well. 
I drilled 1.5" holes in some of the top boards, and put window screen on them. But the bees cemented them shut pretty quickly. I think I'll change that to #8 hardware cloth in the spring. 

I also but in a slatted bottom board in the entire hive, so there is an extra 2 inches below the frames. 
I have two 6" wide entrances that are level to the bottom plywood, and the bees keep the floor amazingly clean.

I put 2 vents in each of the end walls, about midway up, with those nifty rotating metal discs. The bees promptly propylized them shut, and only use the bottom entrances. I left them in since it makes a real easy way to get a lot of smoke in the hive real quick. Open up both ends, put the smoker on one end and watch it come out the other end. Otherwise, its pretty hard to get smoke into a long hive. 

I also put a nice gabled roof on top with a hinge and locking stays, so its easy to prop it open, and it stays in place. 

I pulled a total of 7 frames of honey this year. That's all I could get. 3 in June, and 4 today. They still had drone brood in the 28th frame. 
They certainly won't starve over the winter. There is honey in every frame. The brood pattern is the classic dome shape, and it stretches for 28 frames. So, if you are into honey production, this doesn't seem to be the way to go. 

I am running foundation less F Frames from Mann Lake, and they seem to build them up just fine, especially in the brood chamber. 

The positive points:
I just tested them for mites with the sugar shake test, and only found 4 mites for 300 bees. I have not treated this hive, and will test them again in November to see if I need to.
If you collect swarms, or do trapouts, the long hive makes it super simple to grab frames of brood. I have pulled about 8 frames of brood out of this hive this year. 
I don't raise queens, but this might be a great way to raise queens too. 
Of course, you aren't going to move a 4 foot long hive easily, and I don't plan to. The hive alone is about 100+ lbs. I made it with really thick old redwood that was scrap from a retaining wall. 

So, I don't think its the ideal hive for producing honey, but if you run several hives, I think its an ideal hive for supporting your apiary. 

I didn't split this hive last spring, but I would think that I could have split this about 3 times pretty easily. 

Next project, 2 - 10 frame boxes glommed together to make one 21 deep frame long brood chamber, and a single stack of medium supers on top in the middle. Kinda an upside down T shape, or L shape. Not sure which I prefer just yet. That way I can still grab brood frames easily, but get better honey production. 

Cheers, Phil


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## Steve56Ace

Next project, 2 - 10 frame boxes glommed together to make one 21 deep frame long brood chamber, and a single stack of medium supers on top in the middle. Kinda an upside down T shape, or L shape. Not sure which I prefer just yet. That way I can still grab brood frames easily, but get better honey production. 

Cheers, Phil[/QUOTE]

I too plan on building a long box using 2- 10Deep boxes but my math came to 34 frames. Mine would be 20" wide then a 16" + 20" + 16" or a side would be - short side + long side + short side. Then a 20" front and back. Some rabbet cuts and and entrance should be good to go. Does this sound right to yous?


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## Michael Bush

My horizontal hives:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beeshorizontalhives.htm


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## hankstump

I too plan on building a long box using 2- 10Deep boxes but my math came to 34 frames. Mine would be 20" wide then a 16" + 20" + 16" or a side would be - short side + long side + short side. Then a 20" front and back. Some rabbet cuts and and entrance should be good to go. Does this sound right to yous?[/QUOTE]

Yes, your math is correct, or at least close. My concept and your are slightly different. Your long is similar to what I built. Here in California, the queen has spread the brood chamber across 28 frame. 

My next project would be a 22 frame brood chamber, using std 10 frame hive parts, but not using 2 of the long sides. I would then super the side furthest from the entrance using medium boxes. 
I'll make drawing to illustrate. 

Cheers , Phil


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## hankstump

This is what I am thinking of, but using standard box parts as much as possible. While I am reasonably handy with woodworking, I have limited time, and want to make something that can be duplicated easily (unlike some of the other plans I have seen) 

Scroll way down to the image of the long hive with several supers stacked on.
http://eccentricbeekeeper.com/hives/medframe.html

My basic recipe, 2 - 10 frame deep boxes in line to make a long brood box.
Super with 10 (Or 8) frame medium boxes. 
Maybe use a queen excluder (haven't yet, and won't if I don't have to) 
Add some ventilation on the top of the supers like the DE Hive, or basically a quilt box. 
http://www.beeworks.com/modkit.html

Since I am using the boxes sideways, the entrance would be like that of the DE Hive. 
Of course, I would also add the slatted bottom board to give them some congregation area and a strong air flow path to the back of the hive and up the stack of supers. 

So, mostly standard hive parts, except for a custom bottom board, but that is basically a sheet of plywood and a few strips along the edges. Stay tuned. 

Here's my thinking at this time.
- The brood pattern is this beautiful dome shape, and if you give here 22 frames wide, she will use it all. 
- Honey goes upstairs. If there is no upstairs, they don't seem to store much unless its right next to the brood.
- A brood box of 22 deep frames is about as big as a colony will get. I suppose I could do the bee math on all that someday to prove it. Maybe somebody already has. lets see, 1500 eggs a day, x 21 day cycle = 31,500 brood cells, divided by the number of usable cells in a frame equals the maximum number of active frames needed for the brood nest,, ..... (hmm, maybe later) 
- Bees seem to like the slatted bottom board for congregating at night, but also (i think) for the ventilation of the hive. Frames full of bees don't pass air very well, at least passively. But if they have a fresh air source at almost every frame, controlling the airflow in the hive is much easier. They decide, but I'd be giving them the resources to control their environment better. 
- The stack of supers makes a good Bernoulli effect to move air through the hive that a long hive doesn't do. Good air flow helps make honey from nectar quicker, and keep the queen's scent strong through the entire hive. 
- A quilt box, or DE type of top would help air flow a bit better. 
- I have no idea if this would be a good winter hive, but I live near San Francisco, so winter isn't really a concern here. I get about 5-10 nights of frost. 
- I would get better honey production than a long hive.
- I still get to pull brood frames rather easily for bolstering caught swarms, and doing trap outs (the back of the brood box won't get much action though) 
- Doing a split will be relatively easy I would think with 22 frames in a row.
- I use foundation less frames in the brood chamber, so they decide on the cell size. Probably plastic foundation in the supers so I can still spin it out, but certainly some foundation less frames interspersed for cut comb.

Just thinking out loud after a good baseball game. 

Phil in Fremont.


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## Tomas

I’ve played around with some long hives but they have never been a major part of my operation. Just about all of my hives are the trapezoidal Kenyan tbhs. The rectangular shaped Tanzanian tbh tend to be more expensive since they take frames and since the bottom requires quite a bit more wood (as in some decent boards). I make the bottoms of my Kenyan tbhs from scrap wood lots of times.

I always used them with a combination of top bars and frames. I want the brood on top bars with the bees drawing out comb the way they want. I want to keep that part of the hive as natural as possible. Otherwise I would go with foundationless frames for brood.

I used frames in either end for honey so I could use my extractor. I usually installed small cell foundation in these. 

I custom made my frames with a wide top bar because I wanted to keep everything closed up like most other top bar hives. This closed system helps me to better control the Africanized bees I need to deal with where I live. 

If commercially made frames are used, it would be fairly simple to tack on a strip of wood to the top of them to close up the transit space. This way you wouldn’t really need to use an inner cover and you wouldn’t have to deal with a lot of open spaces where bees would be coming out.

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s313/Tomas_fotos/Ttbh05.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s313/Tomas_fotos/Ttbh04.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s313/Tomas_fotos/Ttbh03.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s313/Tomas_fotos/Ttbh02.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s313/Tomas_fotos/Ttbh01.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s313/Tomas_fotos/Harvestedhoneyinframes.jpg

I also made some of these long hives with my brother when I was working with a commercial beekeeper in Wisconsin a number of years ago. See the post from my blog for some pictures of these (link below). 

The only difference with these was that we started them with a five-frame nuc. The idea was to eventually eliminate those frames and get to a point where the brood was on just top bars and there was frames at either end for the honey.

http://musingsonbeekeeping.blogspot.com/2014/12/musings-about-economical-beekeeping.html

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Tom


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## razoo

Tom, thanks for all those photos. Some here have said that long hives aren't as good for making honey as the bees want to go up for the honey. This isn't my experience, but then I only have one horizontal hive. What was your experience? Do the bees make brood at one end and honey at the other (that's what mine have done ) or do they have brood nest all along the length of the hive, with honey in the top half of the comb?


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## Nordak

razoo said:


> Do the bees make brood at one end and honey at the other (that's what mine have done ) or do they have brood nest all along the length of the hive, with honey in the top half of the comb?


From my limited experience, they basically work exactly like my TBHs. In Spring, they have much of the honey in the brood nest, with a few frames of nectar/honey at the end. As brood rearing slows, the brood nest shrinks and they start backfilling. By the time Fall flow commences, there is usually quite a bit of honey in reserves. Much of my harvestable honey is dependent on the Fall flow, but I am extremely conservative when harvesting as I don't like feeding. I've got a TBH right now with what I'm estimating around 100 lbs. of capped honey comb. We've had a pretty strong flow this year.


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## hankstump

Is it possible to make a "queen excluder" with a full frame of honey? Of course leaving enough room in the brood chamber. (24 frames?) With a long hive, honey bound is easier to do than a normal Lang hive, and one frame of capped honey may be enough? 

Phil in Fremont


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## Nordak

hankstump said:


> Is it possible to make a "queen excluder" with a full frame of honey? Of course leaving enough room in the brood chamber. (24 frames?) With a long hive, honey bound is easier to do than a normal Lang hive, and one frame of capped honey may be enough?
> 
> Phil in Fremont


Might be. I'm not sure in my case if it's from the natural decrease in brooding or the fact she won't lay once the nest starts getting back filled, creating the barrier. Either way, there is definitely a transition that happens where the stores end up in most of the back combs.


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## Tomas

razoo said:


> Tom, thanks for all those photos. Some here have said that long hives aren't as good for making honey as the bees want to go up for the honey. This isn't my experience, but then I only have one horizontal hive. What was your experience? Do the bees make brood at one end and honey at the other (that's what mine have done ) or do they have brood nest all along the length of the hive, with honey in the top half of the comb?


Saludos Razoo. Before I respond, understand that I deal with Africanized bees in Honduras in a tropical climate. What my bees do might not be the same as the European bees up in the States.

My bees usually keep the brood nest in the middle of the hive. That’s where I start them in the box, maybe just forward a bit of what would be the middle of the box. I get about two-thirds of the total honey harvest from the back of the hive and the other third from the front part. 

There are always a couple combs that are half honey and half brood. Sometimes I´ll leave those at the edge of the brood nest as feed during the dearth. Otherwise I´ll move it to the back of the box when the brood is all capped and let the bees finish filling it with honey once the new bees emerge.

I also get quite a few brood combs with about a one-inch rim of honey up at the top and next to the bar.

As far as honey production in a horizontal hive, it usually comes down to management. If the beekeeper stays on top of the colony’s space needs and harvests the combs or frames as they get filled and capped, the production should be the same or nearly the same as a Langstroth.

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Tom


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## Nordak

Tomas said:


> There are always a couple combs that are half honey and half brood. Sometimes I´ll leave those at the edge of the brood nest as feed during the dearth. Otherwise I´ll move it to the back of the box when the brood is all capped and let the bees finish filling it with honey once the new bees emerge.


That's a technique I utilize in horizontal hives as well, and probably worth mentioning. I am completely foundationless, so lots of drone comb ends up in the honey section in addition to the partials of brood/honey. I generally replace these in Spring with empty bars, which they build vigorously during the flow, and a huge part of swarm management.

Thanks for the information, Tom. I have enjoyed looking at your website, and it has given me some ideas I'd like to try. Good stuff.


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