# Hive swarmed



## noblebee (Dec 21, 2014)

One of my Warre hives swarmed on May 18th how long until I have a new laying queen? This swarm was from a new package installed on April 19th, should I consider giving them a new queen?


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## IsedHooah (Jan 13, 2015)

Do you have a virgin queen remaining in your hive? At least some hatched out queen cells (as it can be hard to find a virgin queen)? When did they swarm? You can expect probably another week before a new queen will start laying, assuming all goes as nature has planned. So many questions that can be asked from your post, I would maybe provide a little more information so we can give some better answers.


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## tsmullins (Feb 17, 2011)

noblebee said:


> One of my Warre hives swarmed on May 18th how long until I have a new laying queen? This swarm was from a new package installed on April 19th, should I consider giving them a new queen?


Anywhere from 21 days to 33 days and you should have a laying queen. It is very unusual for new packages to swarm, esp. in one month. Could it have been a supercedure?

Shane


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## noblebee (Dec 21, 2014)

As I said the hive swarmed on May 18th. Yes I had at least one queen cell that looked like it hatched two days before the hive swarmed. I could see the one queen cell I do not know if there where more as I wanted to leave them alone. The hive has windows which allowed me to see the queen cell.


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## tsmullins (Feb 17, 2011)

noblebee said:


> Yes I had at least one queen cell that looked like it hatched two days before the hive swarmed.


How do you know the hive swarmed?


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## IsedHooah (Jan 13, 2015)

noblebee said:


> As I said the hive swarmed on May 18th. Yes I had at least one queen cell that looked like it hatched two days before the hive swarmed. I could see the one queen cell I do not know if there where more as I wanted to leave them alone. The hive has windows which allowed me to see the queen cell.


Sorry, I must have breezed right over your initial swarm date. How do you know it was a swarm?


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## noblebee (Dec 21, 2014)

IsedHooah said:


> Sorry, I must have breezed right over your initial swarm date. How do you know it was a swarm?


I caught the swarm in my apple tree about 70 ft away and the hive has only half the bees it did. As I said, I have windows and it is easy to see.


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## JConnolly (Feb 21, 2015)

noblebee said:


> I caught the swarm in my apple tree about 70 ft away...



If it were me I'd consider it a nice serendipity. Two hives from a package in a month. SCORE! :applause:

You should be seeing eggs and larva sometime between June 8 and June 20. If you don't see hatched larva by June 23 then you don't have a laying queen. Good luck!


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## noblebee (Dec 21, 2014)

Thank you for the info!


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## IsedHooah (Jan 13, 2015)

noblebee said:


> I caught the swarm in my apple tree about 70 ft away and the hive has only half the bees it did. As I said, I have windows and it is easy to see.


Well that's good then, it is unique for a package to swarm their first year, didn't mean to seem like I was doubting you. If it was me, and having caught the swarm, I would let the parent colony attempt to requeen themselves. If for whatever reason they fail, you can always combine the two back together. I would try to identify why they swarmed in the first place as well. If it was a space issue, perhaps solving that issue should be your first step. Good luck!


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## noblebee (Dec 21, 2014)

IsedHooah said:


> Well that's good then, it is unique for a package to swarm their first year, didn't mean to seem like I was doubting you. If it was me, and having caught the swarm, I would let the parent colony attempt to requeen themselves. If for whatever reason they fail, you can always combine the two back together. I would try to identify why they swarmed in the first place as well. If it was a space issue, perhaps solving that issue should be your first step. Good luck!


Good advice! I don't think it was a space issue. They started with 3 boxes and had already filled the top with comb and started comb in the middle box, still had the bottom to go.


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## johnsof (Oct 14, 2014)

noblebee said:


> Good advice! I don't think it was a space issue. They started with 3 boxes and had already filled the top with comb and started comb in the middle box, still had the bottom to go.


:no: It's pretty easy to get a 1st-year Warré to swarm! Just overfeed them when they slow down on drawing comb and start backfilling the brood area with syrup. Guaranteed swarm.

I will bet that you will not get them to build any comb in the 3rd box the first year if you're only using the top bars. My (limited) experience with foundationless Warré hives is that they will rapidly draw out the first box, draw out "most" of the second box, and then stop drawing comb, no matter if there is an empty 3rd box or not, no matter how much nectar or feed there is available. Then they will backfill and the queen will run out of room. I had this happen to me several times last year, in two different hives, about 9 weeks after install (starting late June and running through the middle of July); this year I am being a lot more careful about how much to feed and making sure that they don't backfill or otherwise run out of space. Of course this year I have the advantage of having some boxes with empty comb, but they are very slow to move down and not drawing any new comb at all. One hive is booming and has pretty much filled out the second box, hopefully they'll start to get into the third box soon, but the other is much weaker and has not dropped down at all, they're still up in the first box. If the bigger hive does not drop down into the third box very soon I am going to super a box with frames.

I have also packaged a new Warré this year, but this one is on frames with full or partial foundation; they drew out the first box in 3 weeks, started the expected population drop and by the 4th week really slowed down. Now it is 6 weeks in, there are a lot of bees again, and I will check on any progress down into the 2nd box probably this afternoon. With luck and the foundation for them to use as a ladder and maybe stimulant they will draw out the 3rd box too, it will be interesting to see. By the way, it doesn't seem to matter if I use full or only partial foundation, they fill out the frame at basically the same rate. I do use wired wax foundation, just so you know.

I am feeding all my hives (3 Warré and 1 Lang) a reduced amount so that they can use it all up in 3 days or so and then add more syrup once per week. We'll see what happens. But the bottom line is if you feed liberally then almost for sure you will get backfilling and they'll swarm, you have to watch it.

So, my thoughts only, mileage may vary, blah blah blah...
Fred J.


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## noblebee (Dec 21, 2014)

johnsof said:


> :no: It's pretty easy to get a 1st-year Warré to swarm! Just overfeed them when they slow down on drawing comb and start backfilling the brood area with syrup. Guaranteed swarm.
> 
> I will bet that you will not get them to build any comb in the 3rd box the first year if you're only using the top bars. My (limited) experience with foundationless Warré hives is that they will rapidly draw out the first box, draw out "most" of the second box, and then stop drawing comb, no matter if there is an empty 3rd box or not, no matter how much nectar or feed there is available. Then they will backfill and the queen will run out of room. I had this happen to me several times last year, in two different hives, about 9 weeks after install (starting late June and running through the middle of July); this year I am being a lot more careful about how much to feed and making sure that they don't backfill or otherwise run out of space. Of course this year I have the advantage of having some boxes with empty comb, but they are very slow to move down and not drawing any new comb at all. One hive is booming and has pretty much filled out the second box, hopefully they'll start to get into the third box soon, but the other is much weaker and has not dropped down at all, they're still up in the first box. If the bigger hive does not drop down into the third box very soon I am going to super a box with frames.
> 
> ...


I started with two warre hives this year. One hive is very strong and they have almost finished drawing the second box and have started the third box I will give them a another box this week. I only fed the hives 8 days, wanted them to do it on their own. so over feeding is not the problem. Thank for your info and help. Our weather has been warm and sunny this spring, about 10 degrees above normal, so the flow is on!!


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