# Growing into commercial beekeeping



## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

I am a home-schooled sophomore in high school and my parents and I are planing out my next few years in school. I am very interested in commercial beekeeping. I should have enough hives that I can split as I get bigger. I have relatives in the Carpenter, SD area that I could take bees to and have relatives that have an almond farm in CA. I am working on my own queen rearing also. 
My questions are as follows-
1. What college or dual credit courses does one need to be successful? and/or what college classes were beneficial to you?
2. Is it best to work w/ a commercial beekeeper for a season or two? If so, any recommendations in east texas? 
3. Any recommendations as to rate of growing numbers of hives, when to get a forklift, when to go to pallets, when to get 12' flatbed etc. 
4. These days, where is the money made in commercial beekeeping? 

I am a hard worker so I feel that if I can build up the capitol for my business I can make my business work for me. 

Kingfisher aka mike


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

Kingfisher Apiaries said:


> 1. What college or dual credit courses does one need to be successful? and/or what college classes were beneficial to you?
> 2. Is it best to work w/ a commercial beekeeper for a season or two? If so, any recommendations in east texas?
> 3. Any recommendations as to rate of growing numbers of hives, when to get a forklift, when to go to pallets, when to get 12' flatbed etc.
> 4. These days, where is the money made in commercial beekeeping?


1 - I would recommend a business major. Make sure you take quick books as part of that. 

2 - Yes, work for a commercial beek for a few seasons so you know what you are getting into. Commercial beekeeping is different then hobby beekeeping and is very demanding work. Plus you will learn ways to manage your bees that is conducive to running a business. What you pick up can save you tens of thousands in your own operation. 

3 - Grow at a rate you can afford. Try not to take out a loan if you can help it. The first couple of years put everything back into growing your operation. As you gain capital look for used flatbeds, swingers, etc. and build up that way. Used is much cheaper and works well (usually).

4. - The money can be made in all the aspects you listed. Find out what works best for your area. Diversity in operations is good.

Good luck.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Very well said, Alpha.


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## Stitches (May 11, 2010)

I agree with alpha on all the points listed.

To add to "where's the money?", it can be everywhere: Queens, pollination, honey, selling nucs/splits, pollen, wax, bee products like candles and soap... You only need to figure out what you like to produce and hopefully that's what people in your area like to buy. My advice is pick the brain of the commercial beekeeper you will be searching out to see what they do.


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## arthur (Apr 6, 2008)

You might work for a commercial beekeeper and discover that while you love bees, you don't love commercial beekeeping. 

And that would be a valuable thing to learn about yourself, save yourself a lot of time, money, and heart ache.

Or you might discover the opposite. Either way, you are ahead.


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

Thanks for all the replies. I am up to 15 hives. I do not love to keep lots of hives, but beekeeping is what i am best at. I have a growing lawn care business that is doing very well, but almost all of my friends do that at some level, so I want something that I do, and hardly anyone else my age does. Currently I want to do both, but phase the other out. 

Kingfisher


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## Grant (Jun 12, 2004)

I like the previous advice. No need to repeat it.

In my own personal journey into a serious sideliner mode, I plowed a lot of money back into my operation. I am adverse to borrowing money for many reasons and if you can pay as you grow, so much the better.

I also bought a lot of cheap, used, worn-out equipment in my initial stages that I fixed up. But the bigger I got, the less time I had for fixing things up. Buying the cheap stuff (most of it was just a high-grade of kindling wood) got me started, but these boxes needed replacement after a few years of my use. Buy quality. It lasts longer.

I also found I like selling honey at the farmer's markets. I am energized by the face-to-face exchange. The honey sells for more money than if I sold it by the drum, but the bottling and selling also takes more time, and this time competes with my demands in the bee yard. You need to decide where your trade-offs will be. Time-management (which is really self-management) is something you'll have to learn.

Also, dont' fall in love with someone who despises your long hours during the summer months. Beekeeping is not your typical 9-5 job with weekends off and paid vacations. If you go the commercial route, she'll just have to understand what it's like to live on the road or out of two houses.

My wife used to resent the intrusions into our dinner hour by swarm calls. I kept telling her it was "free" bees. She argued that "free" bees didn't pay the mortgage. I countered that it was next year that they'd pay off with the honey production.

Then one year I made enough money selling honey to send her on a 7-day cruise. She even let me come along!

Now she sees the benefits of my "hobby" and helps me at the farmer's markets.

It's that old saying that if momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy. 

I wish you all the best. It's a fascinating business.

Grant
Jackson, MO


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## peacekeeperapiaries (Jun 23, 2009)

All very good advice. I too have plowed and continue to plow money into my business, i think it will be another year maybe two before I start to see any substantial return for the simple fact money made goes right back into the business as operating capital. I am also adverse to borrowing money, and have been fortunate enough to have found a few commericals who helped me here and there, as well as purchasing used equipment that needed some fixing and some of it worked like a charm. In regards to the lawn maintenance profession the nice thing is you are getting money for work as you perform it, with the bees it may be years before you ever see a paycheck or return on investment. I must applaud you for your work ethic and forward thinking cause in this day age most teens just wanna cruise through life playing x-box. Working for a commercial would be a great experience for you and I highly suggest it, as stated you might decide its not for you, or it can solidify that this is your course or direction. Good luck in all your endeavors, I am sure you will be a success at whatever you try, good attitude and work ethic IMO are more than half the battle and you obviously have more than enough of both.

PS: In a recent ABJ or Bee Culture there was a "business spotlight" article on a young man, I think in Texas??? who started as hobbyist in high school and now runs a full time 500-800 hive operation he built himself from scratch. I cant find the issue right now but maybe someone could look it up and forward the guys name to you, might be a good resource or mentor.


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

You are thinking of blake shook. I know him, but his is kinda far away to work w/ . 

Kingfisher


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## peacekeeperapiaries (Jun 23, 2009)

yeah thats who I was thinking of, maybe to far away to work with but might be a good resource or "phone" mentor in the future.


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

There is some guys around here that have quite a few hives. I have bought some queen cells from a guy about a hour away. He has 1000s of hives. 

Kingfisher


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## peacekeeperapiaries (Jun 23, 2009)

offer to give him a hand, free labor is hard to find and most commercial guys I know like to have someone to talk to and pass along their knowledge. If I was closer I would def put you to work and trade ya some nucs for your labor


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

This is something that I found on another site. I think it sums it up well- 


> [Beekeeping] requires the skills of a plant and animal biologist, a mechanic, a tax expert, a woodworker, truck driver, salesperson, bookkeeper, and personnel director.


Kingfisher


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## gregstahlman (Oct 7, 2009)

i don't wanna foil your plans or be discouraging but that area of SD that you are talking about has 10-15 beekeepers in it. these days it would be pretty hard to get locations in SD unless you buy and outfit that is going out of business. SD has a 3 mile limit law which protects all of us around here from out of staters moving in on us. just something to think about


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## Johnny (Sep 7, 2007)

gregstahlman said:


> SD has a 3 mile limit law which protects all of us around here from out of staters moving in on us. just something to think about


Is that just for out of staters or locals also? Kinda wish there was something like. that here.


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## Grant (Jun 12, 2004)

gregstahlman said:


> . SD has a 3 mile limit law which protects all of us around here from out of staters moving in on us.


Really! How does this work? How is it enforced? I suspect you have to have "registered" locations.

Grant
Jackson, MO - where there is lots of room for more beekeepers!


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

I have relatives that have a 5,000 acre farm. I do not think I will have issues. :lpf:

Kingfisher


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

It is surprising how few hives 5000 acres will support.


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## summer1052 (Oct 21, 2007)

Commercial beekeeping is not just about the bees! I would recommend a class or two in marketing and advertisment. An ento . . . entym . . . enti . . . BUG class would be useful as well, IF you can find one for an undergrad.

Many, many people start businesses and discover they are really good at something -- bees, truss design, bookeeping, underwater basketweaving, etc., and then find out they are lousy at, and or hate paperwork, sales, advertising, customer service, and so on.

Alas, they are all pieces of the puzzle. Since you are homeschooled you might consider "hiring" siblings and family members for some of these jobs when/if you discover you really stink at them.  Also consider paying them in shares of stock in your future enterprise.

Read some for Dummies Books and find out how to write a simple business proposal and 2, 5, and 10 year plans. Include some realistic financial projections. This is a wonderful learning experience in itself. (OK. The Ferrari is on the *20* year plan . . . dang.)

Your detail oriented and math whiz aunt can help you set up books and look over your shoulder for a while. A talkative sister might be a great customer service rep. That said, the more professionally you present yourself and your business, the more seriously you will be perceived. Don't neglect this. The clean-shirt-good-manners-stand-up-straight stuff your mom had been stuffing into your ears for years is all true.

While you don't want to start off with a loan, you WILL need to establish credit, which CAN be done at your age. see if you can scrape together, say $500. Put on that clean shirt and take your parents and that business proposal to a LOCAL bank. (You'll probably have better luck there, than at a national chain.) 

Ask about a small (micro) loan for the purpose of establishing credit for your business. A $300 loan payable over 24 months, with a $500 CD at the bank as collateral. Asking for a BUSINESS loan will most likely NOT work -- they want established credit and a business history to do that, and that's what you are trying to establish. Your parents may be required to co-sign, especially since you are not 18. If the bank goes for it, or offers a variation of same, you are on your way to establishing business (and personal) credit. 

Keeping personal and business monies separate is mandatory and vital if you want to be taken seriously. Go ahead and start a John Smith Prince Among Bees company as a sole proprietor for now. I don't *believe* you must be 18 for this. Report it to the IRS -- very straight forward, income was $0 and expenses were $50 this year, etc. Don't ever get cute with the IRS. The more tricky you get with the numbers, the more red flags it sends up to them. KISS. With that business number from your state you can get a sales tax license if you need one. Keep good records and paper copies of everything. (Ask that whiz of an aunt again) You're on your way, and anyone you deal with will be blown away by your professionalism. Keeping all that paperwork tidy and above board goes a long way toward showing people you are the real deal and can be trusted.

Good luck to you, and keep us posted!
Sum


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

Thanks Sum

I am not saying that 5000 acres can support a ton of hives. I am saying I should be far enough from any beekeeping neighbors. He has acted like there are none around, but he may not be telling me. :lpf:

Kingfisher


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

The point of taking your bees to SD is to make honey, so you will need locations enough for those colonies to be in honey production. 5000 acres is only about 8 sq miles. 

Other than the potential territory issues in SD, your three destinations seem pretty much tailor made for beekeeping. What beekeeper wouldn't want a relative with an almond farm?:applause:
Good luck,
Sheri


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## peacekeeperapiaries (Jun 23, 2009)

summer1052 said:


> That said, the more professionally you present yourself and your business, the more seriously you will be perceived. Don't neglect this. The clean-shirt-good-manners-stand-up-straight stuff your mom had been stuffing into your ears for years is all true.Sum


All good advice SUM, I especially like the MOM reference, its seems at 39years old I am thanking my parents for all the good advice and life lessons a whole lot more than I did when I was 17


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## Trevor Mansell (Jan 16, 2005)

Work with as many commercial beekeepers as possible. There is allot more to commercial beekeeping than you think. The business end of it is pretty straight forward, managing 1000's of hives to where they are profitable is something all together different. 
You are only a sophomore in high school when you graduate go work for a commercial queen producer, honey producer or pollinator. They are always looking for someone that is not afraid to work, you may not make allot of money but you will learn what it takes to make a bee business work. Trust me I wish I did.


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

I am a entrepreneur at heart. I had my first business when I was 10. I really want to work for myself, other than working w/ a commercial guy part time. Thanks for all the advice. 

Kingfisher


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## Countryboy (Feb 15, 2009)

_4. These days, where is the money made in commercial beekeeping? _

The money is made in management decisions. It won't be the product you make or produce - it will be the management decisions which make or break you.

There is more money in retailing honey than in bulk sales. There is more money in bees than in honey. You may want to raise bees to sell - queens, nucs, etc.

_I am a entrepreneur at heart. I had my first business when I was 10._

How did those businesses do? If you lost money on every venture, odds are you will lose money beekeeping.

Have you made money without Mom/Dad subsidizing you? It's easy to make money mowing lawns when Dad paid for the mower. Don't expect anyone else to help fund your bee operation.

However, if you have business smarts (common sense), and you are able to turn a profit no matter what kind of business venture you have done, then there is a good chance you can make money beekeeping. (If you have the business smarts to earn money, it won't matter if you are beekeeping or any other profession. You'll do ok.)


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

I haven't lost money on any of my businesses. I bought most of my equipment for lawn care and beekeeping, unless we already had it. I am not usually "subsidized" by my parents. Except for sugar for the bees, but that is another story :lpf:. Oh, I am starting to pay for it now. 

Kingfisheropcorn:


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## wfarler (Jul 9, 2003)

I know Blake, he is the pres of our club. Nice kid that works hard. He had a wonderful mentor John Talbert who is the backbone of the club and has taught many young people the art of beekeeping. John opens up his honey house every summer for extracting and teached classes for beginers. I suggest finding a club and a mentor to help. It will save you years in learning. John took blake in as a partner to help him build up, teaching him along the way, sharing expensive equipment like trailers and hummerbee's and a big extracting plant. Blake helped him work hives and vice versa. Find a good mentor and invest your labor in making it a win-win friendship.

Blake worked hard to build up without spendng a lot of capital, John taught him how to make commercial tops out of used concrete ply for $1 each, take advantage of auctions and used equipment, work the retail circuit to get top dollar.

Lot of hard lessons to learn. Remember if you earn $1000 dollars selling honey and spend $1000 on equipment that year your cash position is zero. I remember one commercial guy told me he could make good money if he didn't have to keep buying equipment. 

Lot of people romanticize beekeeping. You need to pull supers in July and work the honey house all night extracting to take the romance out. Still I find myself out the barn building Nucs on the table saw, hot tired and just smiling.

I've had a kid that wants to grow up and be an entomologist come help me grafting. Felt real rewarding to teach and talk about genetics and the life cycle of the bee, what drives the emergency queen rearing instinct and the supercedure instinct, how to split hive and the nuances of queen acceptance. I learn too.

Oh, and requeen those mean hives before you wanna quit.

If you decide you want to borrow a bunch of money to get inthe business borrow a bunch of money to buy a boat to sail around the world. Throwing up at sea is a lot more fun than getting stung in a hot beesuit pulling supers in July and August.


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## Elwood (Apr 8, 2009)

If you decide you want to borrow a bunch of money to get inthe business borrow a bunch of money to buy a boat to sail around the world. Throwing up at sea is a lot more fun than getting stung in a hot beesuit pulling supers in July and August.[/QUOTE]

That's veteran advice right there.


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

I already build my own tops for about that much. I am in a club, in fact I am on the program committee. We do not have any commercial guys in our club. We do have a guy that works w/ a commercial guy and keeps 75 hives. That is where I learned equipment manufacture (tops, bottoms, etc). If you think pulling supers in the summer is hot, try feeding in the summer w/ mad bees.

Mike


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## Tim Stewart (Jul 19, 2009)

Thanks for starting this great thread.

I am a freshman in High School in southern NJ. I started with bees four and a half years ago and don't mind working. When I was nine I rode around town on my bike selling eggs. Later I sold the chickens to my brother and started out with two swarms and a hive I purchased from a commercial beekeeper 45 minutes away.

Now I am a fifteen year old freshman and raise queens, sell nucs, pollinate blueberries and squash, and occasionally make a few pounds of honey. I bought my first truck, a 1988 F-350 flatbed earlier this spring, and with enough income, I am hoping to buy a used swinger next year. Most of my equipment is new and copper-dipped, built to last for years. 

My schedule is probably tighter than Mike's as I attend public school, and do quite well. (First in class of 256) I also work on a farm two or three days a week, and I'm doing good to eat before eight. 

My main two questions are 

1. When should I buy a bigger extractor? 
I already have a small 8*12 honey house that has a large storage tank but only a 3 frame extractor and electric heated uncapping knife.

2. Is attending college really necessary?

Thanks for all the helpful posts

Tim Stewart
Stewart's Apiaries


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

Tim- How many hives do you have? 
In NJ they let you drive at 15? I am 16 and I just now got my DL.
Mike


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

College is not necessary, but sure useful in understanding what is going on from a Physical(as in Physics) Chemical or Biological stand point. If you can swing it, do it, A degree is something they can never take away from you.


Roland


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## Tim Stewart (Jul 19, 2009)

I currently have about 65 hives (to be 80 this afternoon) and I don't yet have a driver's license so my dad has to drive me around (he's good at strapping down hives but he can't pick them up). I will get a farmer's license in mid -October, and I have heard rumors that they are cutting the farming license for those born after 1994.

If I get a full scholarship, which is possible, I will most likely attend college, if I don't get a complete scholarship I may not spend another four years of life at school, even though this will drive the whole school batty as to why someone who is at the top of the class or right next to it doesn't want to go to college.

Many of the classes I am taking are college level courses, and if I pay for a test at the end of the year I can get college credits.

Tim Stewart
Stewart's Apiaries


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## fishhead (Mar 3, 2010)

I would pay for the test and get the credits. It will be that many less you have to pay for while going to college.


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

I keep watching my son... he is the Pres of this little company- use stuff he learned in Business School (BS in Bus).... seems to help him use his brain more than his back... although he uses his back a lot!! Pretty sure he learned most of that management stuff in college - though I'm sure it could be picked up in the school of Hard Knocks! At anyrate go to college if you can... it will keep some options open if nothing else..... options are important in this business.... (Old guy speaking)


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## StevenG (Mar 27, 2009)

Tim, and Mike, from your experiences thus far with the bees, you have a pretty good idea what you know, and what you don't know. If your business plan means going commercial with your bees, as mentioned, some science classes in college would be helpful. I would also think a lot of business classes would help. 

I admire you young men who are starting off small in high school, and growing your business into a full fledged commercial operation. Heck, you could even use your bee income to finance your education, as you grow over those years into a commercial operation. Figure it this way...takes 4 years to get a BS or whatever degree you want in either science or business. How long is it going to take you to grow your bee business to the size you want? Those 4-5 years are going to go by no matter what you do. So where do you want to be, in say, 5 years? 

Now, to answer your specific question, no, college is not necessary. It might make things easier and more cost-effective, however. Here's a money-saving option. Do you want college for the knowledge, or the degree? If just for the knowledge, see if you can audit the classes, and skip tests and not get the academic credit. Would save money. But then, you do the work, why not get the degree? Your call. Try to put yourself 5-6 years in the future, and look back on these years. What would be your regrets?
Good luck to both of you!
Steven


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## Tim Stewart (Jul 19, 2009)

Thanks for the input!

I myself see the possibility of running 300 hives my senior year and just bumping it up to 500-600 after I graduate. At that rate I wouldn't have the time for college, but if a year of losses harder than this last winter come up, I may have the time, and may be able to get most of the money through scholarships to attend a four year college. (Either Rutgers, Cornell, or Penn State) If I don't have have time and I feel that I could use the schooling later on in life, I could go back four years later.

I am still waiting for an answer to my second question: At what point should I graduate from a three frame hand extractor to a 120 frame radial extractor, a chain uncapper, and a huge honey house? Right now I have a 8 ft by 12 ft honey house with a large tub to hold 2 boxes of uncapped frames. It works quite well and I also have a large stainless steel tank that holds 1500 pounds of honey. (Where I'm located 40 lbs a hive a year is acceptable, 60 is very good.)

Thanks, 

Tim Stewart
Stewart's Apiaries


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## StevenG (Mar 27, 2009)

Hi Tim....

I don't remember if it's _ABC's..._ or _The Hive and the Honey Bee_ but one, or maybe both, of those books have honey house plans in them. They may also indicate size of operation they'll handle. A very good idea would be in your down time, try to visit several commercial beeks and pick their brains. I realize that's what you're trying to do here, which is smart. But many of them don't visit the forum, they're too busy taking care of business. 

If you want to borrow, you can get your dream honey house and equipment any time. If you want to do cash flow, that's a horse of another color... Seems like you have two issues to address.

First, how do you minimize your colony losses so you can more profitably grow? I don't know if you've gone the treatment or the non-treatment route. Your success will depend upon the race/type of bees you use. And if you've read this forum, you know the opinions are all over the place. Do your research, and experiement with those types of bees in the next couple of years. You'll find what works best for you in your climate. Best to take your lumps now, when the lessons are cheap, than when you've got 400 hives and the lessons are more expensive. 

Second, how do you grow into your dream house? You can process more honey faster with the equipment you want, so how to do it? Were I in your shoes, I'd get the land first. Then design my honey house. I'd see if I could design it in such a way it could be built in stages. That way, I could get the equipment, and be cramped, while I developed my cash flow, and then expanded the building. Make sense? 

And it could be the wise thing would be to get a 20 frame extractor this or next year while you grow, knowing that when you reach the upper liimit of its capacity, you have the chain uncapper and other things, then sell the 20-frame and buy bigger. Then again, you may be too big for a 20-frame by next year anyway! Though they say they're good for several hundred colonies.

Regards,
Steven


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## 123456789 (May 24, 2009)

Tim Stewart said:


> At what point should I graduate from a three frame hand extractor to a 120 frame radial extractor,


Take advantage of your youth. There are intermediate steps between a 3 frame extractor and 120 frame. A 30 frame extractor means a few late nites but debt is a killer. A 50 lb average sounds like a life of heartbreak to me. If you're serious about beekeeping as a living relocation should be considered. Not being in a honey producing area seems counter productive to me.


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## wfarler (Jul 9, 2003)

Tim Stewart said:


> Thanks for starting this great thread.
> 
> 
> 2. Is attending college really necessary?


The more you learn the less you know. My goal is to end up stupid. LOL.

If you love learning and are curious about the world, how bee colonies thrive and what makes them dwindle, how pests work, how business works, how chemicals interact, how....

...then you probably want to go to college. If you have the opportunity do it. some of the folks against learning and education are called taliban. college is like a smorgasbord of knowledge, just pick what you want to learn and have fun, you'll use it all your life. Maybe bees will pay the way and you will move on to something new or maybe it will make you more successful or maybe it will just make you appreciate the wonder of nature even more.

Not everyone got the chance to go, if you do take it. There are a lot of rich people who never went to college and a lot who did. Not what it is all about, knowledge is a set of building blocks, college give you the basic set. Without it you have to struggle and figure out more first to get to the next level.

just my 2 cents.


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

I'm with 123456 on that page. 40 pounds is pretty lean. If you can make it on selling nucs and pollination then I'd put all my profits back into bee boxes , pallets and lids. Wait until you hit a wall on the sales or rental of hives. If you can sell all the nucs you make, then make more. If you can't rent all your hives in pollination no sense having more if you only get 40 pounds of honey. I don't think 40 pounds buys you much of a building or an extractor. I suppose relocation could be an option. Better yet find a attractive young woman who's daddy has 10 000-20 000 hives. He'll be looking for help. Make sure the boxes are as good or better looking than she is.

Jean-Marc


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

What do the retail people say? Location Location Location! I can not live for long on 50 lbs a hive. 
Steady as she goes, looks like rough water to me.

Roland


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## summer1052 (Oct 21, 2007)

Go to college.

At some point in your life, you will need, for whatever reason, to seek other employment. You will need a degree to get hired. Is it fair? No. But, most places will not consider hiring for burger flipping without at least some college. Might also be necessary for credit, banking, etc. You'd be surprised who looks for it and why. Your credit rating can go up over 50 points or more just for a degree.

At one time, you had to have a HS Diploma or GED for that purpose. It's not true anymore. 

Go to college. Soon. I'm on the 30 year plan, myself, figuring "I'll get back to that." And it gets harder and farther away every year. Learn from my mistakes. 

And, the reason I sound like a mother? I am one, of course! Listen to Mama! 
Summer


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## StevenG (Mar 27, 2009)

Tim, the average honey harvest for Missouri, my residence, is 46-47 pounds. If I settled for that, I'd move or sell out and go fishing... and I don't like to fish that much. I strive for 80-90 pound average... time will tell if I achieve it. When I lived in St. Louis, and in Kansas, I regularly averaged 90-110 pounds per hive.

The key for you is, what is YOUR average? That will tell you if you can make a go of it where you are. And as you increase your hive numbers, your average will decline, unless you spread them far enough apart. 
Regards,
Steven


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

Go to college. No matter how successfully you grow your apiary, you are only one accident or divorce away from losing everything. 

Always good to have a plan Bee. 

This I know.

Wayne


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## rweakley (Jul 2, 2004)

how are we figuring this average? Average of all the hives you have. Or average of your producing hives? This year I think my producing hives will average in that 90 to 100 range. But when you throw in the hive that is recovering from bad luck (lost half or more of the population in a cold snap, they must have been caught spread out when temps dropped), the medium hive I keep stealing frames from and neglecting, or my split hive or the one from a swarm 3 or 4 weeks ago that average drops considerably.


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## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

If it is a hive with bees it is considered part of the average. Some use the number of colonies they start with in the spring. Some use the number of colonies they have when the honey is harvested.


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

Come on hambone! Thats cheating!:lpf: 

Are the flows good in KS? I could take bees there. My mom grew up in Hillsboro, KS (where Golden Heritage foods is for you commercial guys) and I have uncles and a G'ma w/ farms there. Is that a good area for bees? 

Kingfisher


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## StevenG (Mar 27, 2009)

Right or wrong, here is how I figure my average.... If you're following my blog, you know I'm expanding. The splits I have made for expansion and have no intention of harvesting honey from, are not counted. The splits I make, swarms I capture, and other hives I PLAN to harvest honey from, intend to harvest honey from, get counted. Even if nothing comes from them, their 0 is added in to the average. 

And if a planned "non-counted" hive ends up giving me a shallow super of honey, that hive gets counted, with its 25-30 pounds of surplus honey, into the average. So a weak hive can drag down my average. Right now I have one hive that should produce 150 pounds, and my weakest which might hit 20-30 pounds, if lucky. But if I decide to leave that honey for winter, that hive gets counted as a 0. 

This also might help. My goal is to have each hive in a two-story, 10-frame, deep brood box. If a hive came out of winter in that configuration, even if it produces no honey this year, gets counted in the average. But if I don't plan to put a hive into "honey production", why should it be counted in the average? Regarding splits, in splitting, my donor colonies are counted in the average, but if the split doesn't make it to two stories and a honey super, it isn't...until next year.

Now, once I hit my goal, 50-60 hives, they'll all be counted in the average. This is how I did it years ago when running 15-16 hives... Once i got to my limit, they were all figured in to the average, the good, the bad, and the ugly. Right now, I have the good, the bad, the ugly, and the "we're coming, but wait 'til next year!" :lpf: 

If there's a better way to do it, I'm open to suggestions.
Regards,
Steven


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## kwest (May 16, 2009)

I dont think any college is necessary. Some of the smartest most sucessful people i know didn't even finish high school. I think a good work ethic goes a long way's now days. Most of the people that i graduated with that went on to college came back with a huge loan and have had little to no benifit from going to college. heck the kids around here graduated from college cant find work. the engineers are trying to find jobs pounding nails. I will tell you one thing. the guy who works hard all the time and gives it 100% can make a good living and will never be long without a job.


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## peacekeeperapiaries (Jun 23, 2009)

kwest said:


> the guy who works hard all the time and gives it 100% can make a good living and will never be long without a job.


Agreed, and thats me, but if I had applied myself to my studies a little more diligently in high school (ie better grades) and had the opportunity for a free education or significantly reduced education I would jump at it. We all know smart successful people without degrees, but in some cases that degree can give you an edge, and more money in your pocket. I personally chose not to go the route of student loans and that was 20 years ago, with the cost of education these days no way.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Kwest-If this was 1940, I would agree with you. Unfortunately, beekeeping has become much more complicated since then. I would strongly recommend courses in Microbiology, Ecology, Entomology, and Biochemistry for any potential beekeepers. A splash of Physics and Business would help too. Of you plan to migrate, welding, truck mechanics, and "McIver 101". It is hard to know what you do not know. 

Roland


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## Countryboy (Feb 15, 2009)

_At what point should I graduate from a three frame hand extractor to a 120 frame radial extractor, a chain uncapper, and a huge honey house?_

I know a commercial beekeeping family who started out with a 4 frame hand crank extractor in their living room. The last year extracting in the living room they extracted 5 ton of honey with that 4 frame extractor. After that year, the wife made them get a honey house.

_(Where I'm located 40 lbs a hive a year is acceptable, 60 is very good.)_

I think Ohio is supposed to have a 60 or 70 pound average. I know a commercial beekeeper who averages double that.


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

kwest said:


> I dont think any college is necessary.


That's the attitude that is being stongly encouraged by Middle-Eastern and Asian professionals that are taking this country's good paying professional positions. We are raising a generation of kids who will be competing in the global race for the bottom.

Hard-working or not, when the real jobs aren't there anymore, I guess one can always go pick the fruit and vegetables that we have traditionally depended on the illegals to perform. 

The recession hasn't been the great equalizer that the less educated believe. The engineers that are pounding nails today will be back at their well-paying engineering jobs soon as the economy picks up. I'm seeing that in my own industry here in Maine. My engineering staff is larger now than when we began laying off a year and a half ago. 

The guys that formerly pounded the nails can come off welfare or quit Walmart and maybe have their old jobs back. But they will still be limited by the education level they have decided to stop at. A rising tide lifts all boats but the larger boats will always be riding higher. No one should be encouraging anyone to limit their possibilities.

Build your apiary and build your opportunities. Continue your education.

Wayne


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## Tim Stewart (Jul 19, 2009)

When I say 40 lb average that is not shipping bees to Florida for oranges. Those who do get an extra 100 lbs a hive. My location in South Jersey gets high pollination rates ($70 for strawberries, blueberries, cranberries, and squash.) Some hives can hit three pollinations, brining in $210 besides any honey. My main goal for beekeeping however, is to set up a queen breeding program with thousands of possible breeders tested every year. (The goal is a very deep gene pool.) This is going to take almost a decade to build up to, but without the deep gene pool I can only produce satisfactory queens from those I introduce to the population the year before.

I like the story of the guy extracting 5 tons in his living room. I don't see why I can't do the same in my little honey house, it does work like a charm.

Thanks,

Tim Stewart
Stewart's Apiaries


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## Grant (Jun 12, 2004)

Along the lines of continuing your education or what classes are necessary, or if a degree is even necessary who really knows?

I took a beekeeping class when enrolled at Iowa State University because it looked easy and I needed some good grades to boost my grade point average (the rest of that saga is another story).

That class changed my life, and my life's direction. I later enrolled in a smaller, technical college to take classes on horticulture. I had dreams of incorporating small fruits and berries into the farm, along with honey bees. That part didn't pan out but it gave me a much better understanding of pollination and nectar secretion. All my agriculture classes on crop production and animal husbandry help me to talk to farmers who want my bees on their farm, though I don't presently raise any crops or livestock. 

Those classes help me network (and by the way, "social networking" to me is face to face with a handshake over a cup of coffee, but they often take place leaning on the tailgate of an F-250 scanning the clouds for some much needed rain). The point is you need to make connections and connections are based on relationships. We think we're in the honey business but we're really in the people business.

You never know how things pan out, but a basic understanding of many of life's opportunties opens a lot of doors.

Grant
Jackson, MO


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## mythomane (Feb 18, 2009)

Blake has a LOT of money and backing behind him. You do not get 800 hives in high school from splitting.


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## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

Like back in the days of the forty-niner the guys selling the shovels and picks made more then the miners. If you are good in the shop, make your bee equipment and sell enough to pay for your own equipment and bees.
I'm a second generation honey producer. It's always easier to step in behind an operation that is already up and working. At the age of 8 I had my first 18 hive beeyard and made my first ton of honey. Ofcourse the price of honey back in the days was $.38 a lb., still not bad money for an 8 year old. 

At your age learn all you can about the business from those around you that has been in the business for awhile. My dad tought me a lot of what I know, and have learned a lot the hard way too. Just part of the business, if you don't screw something up your not learning. 30+ years in the business and always room for learning, be it on hands or in the class room.

Work hard at what you do and enjoy what you do.

Good luck,

Ron Householder

:ws


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

The Honey Householder said:


> Work hard at what you do and enjoy what you do.
> :ws


Well said.


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