# Catching queens in robust 3-way nucs



## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

nice catch... although personally I prefer 5 pound bass.


----------



## JBJ (Jan 27, 2005)

I ended up catching 200 in two short mornings sessions and part of one evening. They went over an extra week in the nucs and boy did they look great. Solid brood patterns and very plump queens. A few more outings like this and the bass boat is paid for.


----------



## peggjam (Mar 4, 2005)

How long can you leave them before putting them in with attendants? I assume you are shipping in battery boxes?


----------



## JBJ (Jan 27, 2005)

Not long; they were brushed off for the photo. They usually collect quite a few on the outside of the cage as you work your way through the yard, then they are promptly banked until shipment. Small orders can be shipped the same day as caught, however it can take a few days to accumulate enough queens for a large order. The ones in the photo are part of a batch of 200 going to hood river on Monday. They will be going in battery boxes.


----------



## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

very nice John... I love it!


----------



## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

john writes:
A few more outings like this and the bass boat is paid for.

tecumseh replies:
you need someone to way the anchor? man the torpedos?

I was curious (cat's being curious creatures) about 'they went over an extra week' and wondered if that kind of practice wouldn't give a queen breeder greater confidence in what they were shipping (cull rate/process)? I would assume a week older queen would ship equally as well?

how is the season going up your way?


----------



## JBJ (Jan 27, 2005)

"I would assume a week older queen would ship equally as well?"--tecumseh sez

Indeed.

I was curious (cat's being curious creatures) about 'they went over an extra week' and wondered if that kind of practice wouldn't give a queen breeder greater confidence in what they were shipping (cull rate/process)?--tecumseh also sez

Absolutely! 

The superstars have enough time to really shine and the culls become blaringly obvious. However, unless one were counting on splitting the nucs (which we often do) I do not think one could let every cycle go this long.

As to the deck hand...when I actually pull it off...
Welcome aboard.


----------



## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

>They usually collect quite a few on the outside of the cage as you work your way through the yard, <

Boy, you can say that again. Earlier this summer, I was catching queens in one mating yard. I catch, mark, add attendants, and place the cage in my truck...out of the sun. 

A swarm took off from the yard, and landed inside my truck, on the caged queens. Cute! 5 pounds of bees on the driver's seat, behind the seat, and inside the seat belt opening. 

Wish I'd had my camera that day.


----------



## peggjam (Mar 4, 2005)

Michael Palmer said:


> >They usually collect quite a few on the outside of the cage as you work your way through the yard, <
> 
> Boy, you can say that again. Earlier this summer, I was catching queens in one mating yard. I catch, mark, add attendants, and place the cage in my truck...out of the sun.
> 
> ...


. Maybe I should rethink placing them in my pockets.


----------



## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

What kind of flow were those nucs on?


----------



## JBJ (Jan 27, 2005)

There is some sweet clover, knapweed, and mints in the creek bottom next the apiary. There also are some other compositae that are blooming that I have not been able to ID yet.


----------



## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

>Catching queens in robust 3-way nucs <

Just wondering, John...do you have any problems with your mating nucs, when they get so strong? Lower acceptance of your cells?

The reason I ask is...For the last couple years, I have had low acceptance of my cells...down around 50% with some of the groups. I've been experimenting with overwintering mating nucs. As I've gotten better at it, my nucs are stronger in the spring, when I split them up to get them ready for celling. For the first and second round, the nucs are packed with bees, brood, and honey. Those that don't give a mated queen, usually have a virgin of their own. 

So, I looked at everything in my cell building operation. I could come up with nothing that should cause this problem. Because I use cell protectors, I can see that my cells are hatching. You would think that...within reason...the older cell would be accepted. 

This year started out the same. I even had mating nucs absconding with no cells, and only 50 or so eggs. The temps were wicked hot, and the nucs were hanging out. So, I caught what queens I could, and removed 1/2-2/3 of the bees by shaking them into a shaker box set-up. Wow...can 20 pound packages draw out some foundation.  But, that's another story.

Anyway, from that point on I have been getting 85-90% 

So, I'm wondering. Do others see this problem, and can you attribute it to over crowded mating nucs?


----------



## WG Bee Farm (Jan 29, 2005)

MP- 
I noticed a similar occurence several years ago.
I resolved it by replacing fully drawn frames(capped & honey) with either drawn emply frames or new frames with foundation. Usually just one frame per mating nuc was sufficient to provide the full nucs with work to do- drawing foundation or filling the empty drawn comb with honey or brood. 
This seemed to open up the nuc and seemed to allow the new virgin a place away from the original brood nest to hide. It seems that she wants to be away from the brood on the outside frames until she mates and then she will move toward the broad area. Worked for me, might work for you.

Frank Wyatt


----------



## JBJ (Jan 27, 2005)

Have not had problems with acceptance of cells. I do like to try to manage each mating unit on two frames with one to grow on (foundation or drawn). I have seen nucs abscond due to excessive heat, so we now run spring yards and summer yards. Crowded nucs that may have a virgin already present are another story. I saw 2 on this outing with two queens, one appeared to be a virgin and the other plump and mated. I assume they may have been on the verge of swarming, however there were no sign of swarm cells. Overall cell acceptance still remains around 95% (good hatch) with 75% to 85% successfully mating. 

MP, how long do you wait to put your cells in after catching?

Sometime we wait only hours, frequently it could be a couple of days depending time constraints. As near as I have been able to determine the cell hatch rate remains about the same. That said, I feel that any unit starting cells should eagerly accept your cells. If I come back in a couple of days after catching the queen and there is no sign of started cells I know there is already a virgin or queen present and they will chew down the cell I am trying to add.


----------



## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

>MP, how long do you wait to put your cells in after catching?<

From 2 days, to a few hours. Day 3 in my rotation is grafting day, day 4 is queen catching day, and day 5 is cells out day. But, I can't possibly catch all the queens on day 4. So, I catch some on day 3, most on day 4, and the remaining...and the ones I couldn't find...on the morning of day 5.

As far as acceptance goes, it doesn't seem to matter. Crowdedness seems to matter more.


----------

