# Mel Disselkoen method



## marshmasterpat (Jun 26, 2013)

Anyone using this method to raise queens?

Just seems to be a simpler method than trying to graft and seems like I could potentially make more queen cells in one try with this method than with a single medium frame with queen cups. 

thanks


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## Beeonefarms (Nov 22, 2013)

knotching is ( has) worked for me this year. Other methods may give you more queens, but this worked well for me. I got the opportunity to meet his at HAS this year and he took the time to share his knowledge in a friendly open manner.


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## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

I attended a workshop on OTS queen rearing w/ Mel in Hendersonville this year. It was excellent. I bought his book and have attempted his method. I had problems identifying young enough larvae. Have discovered the obvious and now know to put clean empty comb in the brood chamber and pull it out 4 or 5 days later to take the doubt out of the age of the larvae.


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

I am going to try and employ his system a little more in depth next year, but I did use the notching tequnique and it worked well. G
I was also a little skeptical on being able to pick the right size larvae, I notched eggs, as well as 2 different stages of larvae, they chose which to use and repaired the comb back on the others where you couldnt even tell it had been notched. G


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Does anyone have closeup pic of the comb (with larva in the cell) before and after it was notched?


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

I didn't find the before & after photos sought above, but in the process of looking for that I came across a thread with lots of photos on a slightly different technique posted by _Oldtimer_:

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?249478-Raising-Queen-Cells-Without-Grafting


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

It is a good system and I use it for mite control and producing more colonies. My weakness is judging the best time to perform the process. I take the queen and a couple frames of brood and let them grow back out. The queen gets superceded and one ends up with young queens all around.


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## marshmasterpat (Jun 26, 2013)

Opps, Ok yes he does the cell notching as well. I have tried it and had limited success. Probably an issue with biological interface chip that operates the hive tool

I was wondering if anyone tried the flour and .22 bullet method?

Pros and cons of that. 

Thanks


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

He used .257 empty cartridges which are very different from a .22 bullet. No reason it wouldn't work.


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## marshmasterpat (Jun 26, 2013)

Hmmm .257 not any of those on hand, but do have some .282 and .243 one of those should work.

I was thinking of trying this and wanted to see if anyone had tips.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

The cartridge keeps the flour out of the cell which kills the rest of the larvae. I would use a frame that is still pretty white wax so the bees can tear down the bottoms and adequately feed the larvae. I am just too scotch to kill that much brood I guess. It also should be on wax foundation wired with fishing line or foundationless so one could cut out the cells easily. Cutting out the cells requires three hands! At least it is difficult to keep it all juggles and keep them out of the sun and undamaged. That is why queen cups and frames with rows of queens on removable bars were invented.


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

why kill the brood when the notching works? I need all the brood I can get my girls to muster. G


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## dphillipm (Mar 27, 2013)

So that all the royal jelly goes to the queen cells. Foe better queens.


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

rodger that. the queens mine made were nice and fat and have been great so far. G


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

The method of using bullets to select keeper cells then the flour or salt to terminate adjacent cells is a variation of the Hopkins method. It is just the bullet projectile not the casing that is used. Cell size is roughly 5.2 mm so a .243 (6mm) or a .257 bullet point down in the cell would just nicely round out and seal the cell to keep the dust from getting in. After dusting you just flip the frame over and jar it down and the bullets drop out. My son has used the hopkins method but used the match head to squish adjacent larvae to space the queen cells. I dont think I would want to waste a whole frame of brood either for the few queens I need. Of course you could set up a hand sized piece of foundation to get drawn out and laid up and do a miniature version of Mel's method.


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## Bengoblue (Apr 10, 2012)

I used Mel's method after attenting his presentation at the Spring Michigan Bee Keepers Conference 2014. I had an opportunity to rescue 17 packages from a local bee supply that had been overheated when the air conditioning unit malfunctioned causing the syrup in the cans to soak many packages of bees. All said and done, they lost almost 100 packages, I was able to use my bee vac and remove the dry clustered bees at the top of the packages and recombine them with the surviving queens. Every single queen in those packaged either died or rapidly failed. I was able to use brood and notch 17 of the hives and their queens are vigorous to say the least. I have been able to help others also replace their queens post solstice with very high success. It was a bit of a learning curve finding the right age larvae, the system works very well and saved me, and others, a ton of money buying new queens as well as the benefit of having local drones take care of the mating. I haven't tried grafting so I can't give any opinion regarding that method although there seem to be many folks using various methods with good success.


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## marshmasterpat (Jun 26, 2013)

Bengoblue - May have to try notching in the spring just to play.

Crofter - My attempt with the flour method in a nuc failed. Just cut a small piece of the comb out and offered them just 3 cells to make a queen with. They tore it down within 24 hours. They will soon die due to no queen and the nuc started out under manned. 

Thanks for sharing


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

Oops! double post


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

MMP -

I tried it a year ago and it worked well. My only complaints were that it used up too much precious brood and it allows them to make queens other than the cells I selected due to incomplete kills by the flour. For the time and effort, Miller method was about the same and gave excellent results, thought the cells were a bit closer together to cut than Disselkoen.

I no longer use either method - I now use both my version of Doolittle method (grafting) and Oldtimer's version of Alley/Smith method (Cut Cell). Both of these methods allow me to control which cells get the RJ. Grafting takes longer to learn, but what the heck - I'm going to be doing it anyways, so graft a lot...Poof! Graft-o-phobia is gone by the second round each season, and the % acceptance is up where it's supposed to be. Grafting out-produces Cut Cell by about 6-to-1 for my time (this statistic seems to improve each year). I can do a grafted frame in 10 minutes, Cut Cell takes me an hour per frame (but I don't do it nearly as much and should be better at it). Both methods make top-notch queen cells if you crowd the starters, crowd the finishers, and feed the hello out of them. Beginners will find Disselkoen, Alley/Smith, & Miller methods quite acceptable and easy, though.


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## marshmasterpat (Jun 26, 2013)

Kilo - Thanks for the suggestions I will maybe try Miller way or at least look closely at it. I am only looking at make 40 to 50 queens next year about 15 at a time. So who knows what I will try in the end.


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## JohnSchwartz (Mar 24, 2014)

kilocharlie said:


> MMP -
> 
> I tried it a year ago and it worked well. My only complaints were that it used up too much precious brood and it allows them to make queens other than the cells I selected due to incomplete kills by the flour. For the time and effort, Miller method was about the same and gave excellent results, thought the cells were a bit closer together to cut than Disselkoen.


Mel's OTS method has nothing to do with flour now. That was early on in his experimentation in the 80's. It's now as simple as notching below larvae of the appropriate age clear to the foundation and down. I've used this now for four years, increasing my hives at will (as much as my budget will allow for frames and boxes), manage mites without chemicals, and raise the best local queens that survive winter here in Northern Ohio.


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

Rader - my turn - dead link


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