# Advice on graft-free queen rearing



## Swobee (May 18, 2007)

I recently got a Nicot kit and thought I'd try my hand at queen rearing. I decided that non grafting might be a good way for a neophyte to start out. Following my notes from a queen rearing session at association meeting, reading Practical Queen Rearing three times and following the instructions to the letter with the kit... no eggs.

I chose a queen from one of the more productive hives last year. This year, her hive was bursting with new bees and they were doing very well considering it's way early in the season for us. That all confirmed my decision to use this queen. She was a prolific layer last year and started early with a bang this season.

I assembled the queen cell starter kit, made the chosen hive queen-free for three days with the kit installed. Placed the queen in the kit on day three and now, three days later - not one egg in any cell. She's just wandering around in the cell starter cage along with a few attending bees.

Any suggestions on obtaining acceptance? My eyes are good enough I'm sure I can successfully graft, but have no cells to use as starters other than the ones with the Nicot. Could I graft into them and place on the cell bar frame? Should I leave her in the cell starter and check back in a day or two to see if she's laid any eggs? Scrap this queen for my next chosen one?

I'm open for advice. Thanks!


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## Grant (Jun 12, 2004)

Funny...not ha-ha, but weird. You're doing all the right things. I'm not sure why you're having these problems. Here's how I do it.

I get my cell-builder colony going about six days prior to my start date to age all the brood into the pupa stage. I simply slide in a queen excluder to keep the queen out of the box I want to make queenless. Then after six days I'll remove the queen and the box where she has been actively laying eggs so the remaining box is broodless and queenless, and hungry for fresh larvae to raise into queen cells!

In my "queen mom" colony, I slide the Nicot unit with the front cover off in between two frames of open brood. The cell cups are in place, and even though I only want 20 cell cups with larvae to use for raising queens, I load the unit with 40 to 60 cell cups to insure 20 will be ready for my use. I leave the Nicot unit in for three or four days. It's my hope and intention that the Nicot unit becomes "acclimated" (whatever that means).

Some people think you cannot reuse these cell cups, but I do. I can't tell any difference.

Then I find the queen, slide her into the Nicot unit and place the front cover on. My queens always take about 1 day to get used to the confinement. I put her in on day "zero." On day 1, the next day, she seems ready to lay eggs. By my count, the eggs sit for days 2, 3, 4, and by day 5, I have newly hatched larvae.

What I absolutely LOVE about this unit is the way you can remove the back of the Nicot unit and look at the bottom of the cell cups. The newly hatched larvae sit in a small puddle of royal jelly and are very visible in ordinary daylight to my 50-year old eyes, ready to transfer to the cell cup holders on a top bar that will be transferred over to my cell builder colony.

Sometimes, on day 5, the eggs have not hatched. This means the queen has not been persuaded to lay in the Nicot unit until day 2 or 3. The eggs are easily seen. So I make plans to come back the next day to look for larvae. I leave my queen in the Nicot unit for those five days and I don't release her until she's made up her mind to lay eggs in the cell cups. Since the newly hatched larvae are so easily visible, I'll wait her out until she lays eggs and the eggs have hatched into larvae.

Once I remove the larvae in the cell cups and transfer them to the cell cup holders, I release the queen. I always have more eggs and larvae in those cell cups than I need and I make no effort to save them or use them. I have the larvae I need for this batch of queens. I only make 20 queens at a time. 

I know some guys who put the queen in for one day expecting her to lay eggs, but I've never had my queens cooperate with my intentions. Out of those 20 cell cups, I can reasonably expect 15 or so to be raised into queens. I figure the queen cells will be sealed on day 10, and once sealed, I start getting my mating nucs organized to receive the queen cell.

Hope this helps. It sounds like you know what you're doing. I feel like I'm still learning.

Grant
Jackson, MO


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

If I'm reading your post correctly, you need to put the nicot cage in the queen right colony, not in the cell builder. Put it in middle of broodnest next to frame of eggs for 24 hours, so it'll get the hive scent and get cleaned up by workers. Then put the queen in it, then check it the next day. if eggs, then release the queen and leave the cover off. three days later, set up your cell bar and place in your cell builder colony. Best of luck!


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## Bizzybee (Jan 29, 2006)

Yeah, not sure why you made the hive queenless? And where did she go? Sounds like you probably shut her down and she wasn't laying when you put her in the nicot.

Ray's right on the mark, works every time.


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## Grant (Jun 12, 2004)

Bizzybee said:


> Yeah, not sure why you made the hive queenless? And where did she go? Sounds like you probably shut her down and she wasn't laying when you put her in the nicot.
> 
> Ray's right on the mark, works every time.


Not sure if that comment was directed my way or not. 

Maybe it wasn't clear from my post that I use two colonies. I use a queenless colony with sealed brood as a cell builder. With all the brood sealed, there is no chance of them making a queen from any available larvae--only what I give them. It's not hard to isolate the queen in one box with a queen excluder. All the brood in the other box mature into pupae. With the queen close, they don't make any emergency queen cells.

Then I remove the box with the queen and set it up on a nearby hive stand. Alternatively, you could slide in a solid board in place of the excluder cutting off their contact with the queen, in which they'll be ready to make a new queen.

Grant
Jackson, MO


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## Grant (Jun 12, 2004)

RayMarler said:


> If I'm reading your post correctly, you need to put the nicot cage in the queen right colony, not in the cell builder. Put it in middle of broodnest next to frame of eggs for 24 hours, so it'll get the hive scent and get cleaned up by workers. Then put the queen in it, then check it the next day. if eggs, then release the queen and leave the cover off. three days later, set up your cell bar and place in your cell builder colony. Best of luck!


Excellent point, Ray. "Three days later..."

I have tried to slide the cell cups with eggs into the cell builder colony and the eggs disappear. Cannibalized? When I slide larvae over, they are turned into queen cells.

Grant
Jackson, MO


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## Swobee (May 18, 2007)

Grant,

Thanks for the encouragement. We had a real winter blast come through, so my queen colony is in the garage. I put them there so it's not bitter cold when I open and inspect. They've got plenty of honey, a feeder, etc. so I'm not concerned of food. Oh, yeah by the way, my wife is real fond of this arrangement, having a hive sitting on top of our freezer! 

It's been a couple more days since my last inspection, I'm going to check them this afternoon and hopefully there are eggs and maybe even larvae if I missed eggs earlier. 

:scratch: Now, you said you only place a number of cell cups in the cell starter cage. The instructions call for 'all' cups to be installed. My plan is for 10 at a time, so I may work with 20 or 2 dozen cell cups instead of loading the entire set. What do you do with the used cell cups between uses? Just store them and place in the cell starter to let the bees clean them next time they get put the kit to use? I loaded all the cups per directions. 

I was a building inspector for a number of years and once you're charged with intrepreting and enforcing rules, you either follow instructions to the letter or risk having no respect from others. If I can get by with less cell cups... all righty then! I was just about to order another couple of sets of them for next time.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Queen rearing, other than how you get the larvae into something the bees will take for a queen cell, is the same principles regardless of grafting or graftless. Here's my synopsis of the principles:

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesqueenrearing.htm


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## Jethro (Oct 22, 2006)

Greg
I'm glad to see you post this as I am waiting to get my kit that is on back order, so keep us posted on your progress. I have my queen picked out from a nuc that over wintered and has 3 frames packed with brood and eggs. I may need to move her to a regular hive by the time my kit is here.


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## Swobee (May 18, 2007)

Michael,

I'll keep you posted. The process is on hold for the next few days. I have to work out of town a lot this week and it won't be condusive to being able to check on the progress at the right days. The following 2 weeks' job schedules are more workable.


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