# chemical free package bees



## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Well, virtually all the _worker _bees in a package are destined to die (and be replaced) within about six weeks. 

In my opinion, starting out with two hives (or more) is much more likely to affect your success than whether your bees come from a beekeeper who _may _use chemicals. Also, some consider that _local _bees have an advantage over non-local bees.

However, I did choose to buy bee packages from a relatively local producer who says he hasn't used chemicals in 10 years.
http://www.arnoldhoneybeeservices.com/html/bees_for_sale.html
My bees are doing well, and I was pleased with my interactions with Tess Arnold.


----------



## ByGonzah (Feb 4, 2012)

bcotton said:


> Any advice on traditionally raised bees (chemicals) being kept in an organic/chemical free manner?


If you're looking for bees that are raised without "chemicals", you could try BeeWeaver Apiaries: http://www.beeweaver.com/home.php

You understand, of course, that any bees you keep will consume pollen and nectar from non-organic sources, right?


----------



## Rusty Hills Farm (Mar 24, 2010)

Another possibility is to go ahead and install the local bees. After all, you're going to need answers to a LOT of questions at first, and you may be very glad to have the local beekeeper's expertise close at hand. Then, after your local package is established, you can always requeen it with a survivor/hygienic-type queen. Treatment-free queens are a whole lot easier to find than treatment-free packages. Six weeks after she arrives, most of the original bees will have died off and been replaced by her daughters.

This way you get to have your cake and eat it too!

JMO


Rusty


----------



## bcotton (Dec 30, 2012)

I was looking at Arnold's website & beeweaver--they look great. Thanks for all of the advice. I originally ordered from the local gentleman because he is very knowledgable (he teaches beekeeping) & I thought it would be a good relationship to cultivate in case I need local help and he is such a nice guy too  It is good to know about the workers being replaced in 6 weeks and also about the requeening idea--I hadn't thought of those things. He gets his bees from california and they are italians & that is about all I know about them.

I might just call the gentleman and ask a few more questions about where the bees come from/how they are raised etc. I will probably go ahead and order them because I feel like I have made a comittment to him. I wish I had thought of all of this before I ordered and done more research and asked more questions  But when you are learning you are learning! I just need to talk my husband into building a 2nd hive  Thanks for all of the advice. I am excited to get started on this adventure.


----------



## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

If you would like to use a very simple design for your second hive, Michael Bush offers photos and a guide for a very inexpensive and easy design.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beestopbarhives.htm
Many of the other pages (besides the "top Bar" one) at the link above will also be useful to you, particularly if you want to be largely or completely "chemical free".


----------



## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

the chems are stored in the wax, and your not getting that. use the package, and after a month or two replace with a local queen, and you have chem free bees. all the older workers died...


----------



## bcotton (Dec 30, 2012)

Looking at the forum topics I did past this question in an odd spot that is a great point about the wax. I think I an going to go ahead and order through the local beekeeper as he will provide a lot of real help. Which I definitely might need! Thanks for all of your help


----------



## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

It would be foolish and immoral to dump this supplier in my opinion. But I am old school and my word is my bond. It is foolish because you will probably lose a critical source of information for your area. How about going face to face with the individual and talking about your reservations instead of letting him make financial commitments unwarranted by actual orders?


----------



## D Semple (Jun 18, 2010)

Vance G said:


> It would be foolish and immoral to dump this supplier in my opinion. But I am old school and my word is my bond. It is foolish because you will probably lose a critical source of information for your area. How about going face to face with the individual and talking about your reservations instead of letting him make financial commitments unwarranted by actual orders?


Good points, especially in this case as your supplier gives back by doing a ton for our 2 local bee clubs.

www.nekba.org and www.midwesternbeekeepers.org


Don


----------



## delber (Dec 26, 2010)

The only other thought I thought would be good to add is instead of a simple requeen you could (once the package builds up) take a few frames from the hive to start a nuc with a more local queen. This way if the package makes it then you're golden. If not then you still have the other hive. IMO it's better to have more options than less. Two are better than one even if one isn't "as good". Example. . . I had one hive that I thought the queen wasn't up to par, but she was laying. It was a queen that came from Ga. somewhere that I got through my beekeeping club. Well she overwintered and then they supered her at the first option in the spring. They had q-cells on 2 frames so I made 2 hives from this one "bad" queen. Pretty good in my opinion. This hive is still going today.


----------



## xcugat (Mar 4, 2008)

I think the emphasis on "chemical free" for the most part is misguided in regards to package bee purchases. The way to look at a package is a support network and house builder for the queen in the package. The package bees build the first comb get the hive going and feed the queen and then keel over. What you are really buying when you buy a package is the queen herself. In my experience the most important trait that your queens could have would be local adaptablity, in other words, is your queen suited to the climatic conditions of your area or raised in an area similar--if not the strain of bees that the queen is from may not be well suited to your conditions and this is a common cause of hive failure going into winter--The most common cause of package hive failure though has to be poorly mated queen failure....which is why I would rather buy a nuc even if its only 3 frames anyday but that is a different topic of discussion...


----------



## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

entered in error, see below.


----------



## bcotton (Dec 30, 2012)

Vance G those are good points. I too try to live my life honestly and wouldn't want to go back on my word. I orignally ordered locally because I do like to support local whenever possible and he was so kind & helpful on the phone. I just did further reading that made me question myself--now I have learned a lot for next time. There is a lot to get to learn in the world of beekeeping.

Thanks to everyone for the discussion I have learned a lot from you all


----------



## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

entered in error, see below. :-/


----------



## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Our club last year bought both "chemical" and "treatment free" packages. I heard disappointment about the productivity of the TF bees and both types collapsed this winter from mite overload and viruses in brand new waxfree equipment. So don't blame chemical residues in foundation. My TF hives suffer 50-80% losses every year. My small cell hives are down comparably. The TF Gurus will seduce you with their claims about "Treatment Free Survivors". I have been one of their disciples for years and every year feel like one of Jim Jones disciples who followed him to Ghana and sipped the Cool-Aid.


----------



## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

Beth, I've decided to do the least chemical intervention possible to keep my hives up and running. That means no treatments when they are not warranted, then mild treatments and finally hard treatments only when necessary. Letting bees die because of my 'lofty principles' is counterintuitive to me. My goal is to go untreated, but the IPM philosophy appeals to me personally as I make the journey. You might adopt it as well if you wade through the ideas represented here. 

Choose a queen that can produce bees naturally resistant to diseases, and tolerant to mite infestations. 'Treatment free' for many years is what you need to look for if you order a replacement queen.


----------



## nathan-D (Dec 2, 2012)

I am a very new beek, my first package was installed in January, from treatment free survivor stock and I plan to keep it that way, BUT another beek asked me if I would treat my house if I had bed bugs, a big YES is my answer to that. Then they asked if I use flea and tick products on pets, and I do because the vet tells me its animal cruelty not to. So, now I think I'm taking the stance of Lburou and use resistant queens, IPM techniques, and then on to treatment if needed. Since I'm only a hobbiest with one hive and one more waiting for bees I don't think the bees will be overpopulated, and they will have a good variety of urban forage so they should be healthier bees. I think I should treat the bees at least as good as I would pets or children. I can't let the bees die with a good conscience just to say they are treatment free. Should I discuss my views about organic nitrogen fertilizer run off being just as bad for the water table as chemical fertilizers and we should grow everything in hydroponics here? I better not bring that up. LOL


----------



## shannonswyatt (May 7, 2012)

The problems with the chemicals is the packaging. The big ole' skull and crossbones on the packaging. Scares the crap out of you when you read the instructions. Kind of like when you hear about a new drug on TV. Possible side effects, DEATH!!! If a side effect is death, to me that isn't a side effect!


----------

