# Single vs Double Brood Box



## Rusty Hills Farm (Mar 24, 2010)

I've always overwintered in double deeps with good results. Come spring I generally consolidate into a single deep until they are ready for the 2nd box. I don't want them to have to deal with more space than they are ready for. As soon as we get a good flow going, they are soon ready for their 2nd box back. I know it's often the practice to stack boxes on as soon as the flow starts, but since I am a hobbyist, I can take my time and give the boxes one at a time as needed. I think it is hard on them and therefore wasteful to ask them to protect space they are not ready to use.



Rusty


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## Jeffzhear (Dec 2, 2006)

I always overwintered in NY/PA with a Deep and a Medium, or two Deeps. Now that I am in Tennessee I over winter in a Deep and Medium, and I suspect I would have little issue just overwintering with a single deep. I have single Deep 5 frame NUCS that have overwintered fine the past few seasons. With all that said, I prefer to leave my bees with enough honey to ensure they make it through the winter. I don't want to be feeding them emergency sugar, unless absolutely necessary.


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## johng (Nov 24, 2009)

I have settled on 1deep and one medium for my full sized hives. Now I will cheat and run my overwintered nucs and packages as single deeps their first year.(not too worried about swarms with these) But, after the first extraction I give them a medium box which brings them upto the 1 deep and 1 medium like the others. 

If you try and run an overwintered hive as a single deep you have to stay on top of them or they will swarm on you. You will need some drawn comb to swap out in the deep or do like Mr. Bush says and put just an empty frame no foundation beside the brood nest to give them room. Either way there is some serious frame manipulation that goes into keeping them in single deeps. JMHO


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## Mdjohn (Feb 1, 2013)

Jeff
Did you winter any 5 frame in single box nucs when you where in NY/PA and if you did, how many frames of honey did you have in them.
Any of you up north, what do you leave on them as stores?


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## Wisnewbee (Apr 8, 2011)

The current recommendation from the University of Minnesota for northern climates is to use 3 deeps and to leave from 90 to 120 pounds of honey to overwinter. We were using 2 deeps but are moving to 3 deeps this year. U of M also has a recommendation on how to arrange the honey in the 3 deep boxes also. Some Canadian beekeepers I talk to do indoor wintering which allows for a higher temperature and some of them winter in singles. Hives kept outdoors need more stores.

Wisnewbee


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## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

I wintered 3 late summer nuc's, 2 deep and1 medium with hardly any stores just fondant and dadant patties. But you have to add food constantly as they finish the stuff pretty quickly as they build up brood in the late winter early spring.
Johno


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## JD's Bees (Nov 25, 2011)

I use single deeps for a few reasons;
-I'm usually alone so moving by hand is easier.
-Nice for late winter inspections. When you open the lid you can tell exactly where the cluster is and how much feed they have.
-Less equipment.
-I find it easier to treat when neccessary.

The bad part is I do need to monitor feed levels closely especially late summer.


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## StevenG (Mar 27, 2009)

I use double deeps year round. Here I pull the last honey Labor Day, and leave them the two deeps for overwintering. I'll check them late Sept/early October to see how they're packing away any fall flow. If they're light by Oct. 10, say, I'll feed heavily to get them to fill the top deep. By Nov. 1 they're nice and heavy, ready for winter. Historically my losses have been very low. (that will probably change this year though, but that's another thread)
Regards,
Steven


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## Slow Modem (Oct 6, 2011)

I could probably get away with one deep. But I'd rather them have too much than not enough. So I go with two deeps. Tuscaloosa, AL is farther south, so you can probably get away with less, if you wanted to.


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## chillardbee (May 26, 2005)

I use the double broodnest for many reasons. I've used singles at times but only when I can't get the hive to a double to over winter in time (which has happened quite a few times). I've noticed that singles will need a dry surgar feed ant some point in the early spring or they will need addition of frames of honey, even if they had 7 plus frames of honey going into winter. I had to overwinter as singles this year and a lot of them are brooding up fast with 3-4 frames of brood and they are starting to eat the remaining stores very quickly and we are 4-5 weeks away from any kind of good honey flow(maples and dandilions). 

With doubles it seems that at the end of the season that little to no feeding is required. In our area the beeks who do cranberry pollination have to feed because 1. they miss out on the main blackberry/clover flow, and 2. they usually have yards of 100 or more hives and our area that can't maintain a surplus flow. However, with an appropiate amount of doubles in a yard they'll make a lot of honey and there might only be 5-15% needing feed before winter. Doubles going into winter with 90+ pounds help me not to worry if they'll be starving next spring. 

We reverse our chambers in the spring and as double a lot of pollen gets stored in the bottom box and in the spring it has a lot of empty combs as the bees moved up into the upper chamber where the honey is. by putting that pollen and empty comb above them just seems to help in so many ways. So, I guess what I'm trying to say in short is I like doubles more then singles.


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## Beregondo (Jun 21, 2011)

Mdjohn, 
I'm in Elmira, on the NY/Pa border... right on the 42nd parallel N & 870' elevation.

I overwintered in double deeps in the past, but this winter my bees are in 4 frame nucs, two to a 10 frame box with a divider btw them.
They are July & August splits, and didn't have a very good fall flow.
I was out of state in Oct/Nov and my helper didn't feed them as instructed...so they have been mtn camped.
I lost one nuc to a shrew, and the one it shared a box with perished - starved, even though there was sugar w/in reach.
A weak one, and the only one to start out in a single 5 frame also perished. 
That one was due to poor management, I really should have made it stronger when it was originally split.

The rest are doing very well.
I put a 2" foam block on top of each to prevent condensation on the lid, and also have 2" sheet foam on the north side. 

I expect I'll winter in nucs again next year, but will make sure that there is a super of stores on each for insurance...it will bot add feed and thermal mass.


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## sweetas (Apr 16, 2012)

I started using double brood after discovering the single brood box full of capped brood. Obviously there was no room for further laying until the brood hatched. The second box is not always used by the bees for brood and gets a lot of pollen.

WINTERING
Not a problem here, winters are very mild. Only one or 2 frost per year.

Geoff


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Single deep, since at least the 40's. Less to inspect, and if you move frames, plenty of room for the queen.

Crazy Roland


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

The normal configuration around here is a double deep, and the beek down the road a bit uses only deeps (although I suspect he'd be happier with shallows for honey these days, he's over 70 now!).

I used a deep and a pair of mediums, as I intend to put one on the bottom sometime this spring for a pollen box and checkerboard next year to prevent swarming, but my brother uses double deeps. Lost one hive last year to mites, I think, and the weak hive next to it overwintered in a single deep with a deep of foundation on top of it with about 2" of honey in the bottom of the center frames. They came roaring out in the spring, made 50 lbs of honey and drew out four shallows of foundation. They wintered in a double deep this winter, which is so far a real one instead of the two frost "spring in Feburary winter in March" year we had last year. 

In a typical winter, I suspect we'd need more than a deep unless you wanted to feed starting in Feb. and running into April, it just takes more stores than that to get through the winter here. In a typical year a shallow or medium would be enough. My hives with two mediums of honey on top of a deep were still quite heavy last time I checked, but we are feeding my brother's hive, it wasn't has heavy going into winter as mine were, and it's definitely light now.

My bees are caught swarms, one looks Italian, the other is darker. My brother's are feral bees (eight years without re-queening) and look like Carni's. Make propolis like Carni's too -- very sticky mess! Great bees though, quite gentle and make good honey!

Peter


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## Mdjohn (Feb 1, 2013)

Beregondo,
I use all med and make early 5 frame nucs and I can get them to build up too 3 high by winter but I would like to make some 4 frame in a ten frame box with a divider with 4 on each side, if I have another med on top with a divider and 4 frames of honey on both sides do you think they can make it? I like to start them in July or Aug also. I use 2" of foam on top also, we have real winters here , elv is around 2800 ft. with alot of snow. Anyone over wintering med 4 frame nucs up north? 
Thanks!!


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

4 or 5 mediums for me. If I do a split I put an empty box on the bottom in early spring. I have SBB and I don't think the brood or queen cells should be on the bottom.


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## Mdjohn (Feb 1, 2013)

I use SBB also but i think im going back to solid bottom, we don't get the heat like down south and if you leave the slide-in board in for any time i get wax worms all over them, at least with solid the bee's take care of them.Im going to use them and see what works the best.


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