# Nosema? Gonna order some fumagillin, I think



## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

I have found drenching works better than feeding it. here is a post from bee-l about doing more treatments instead of increasing a single dose for Nosema c. Must be that time of year



> We found that recommendations to double dose for N. ceranae, other one dose treatments do result in rebound. Like with many pests and diseases, a series of treatments at recommended levels works far better.
> 
> Fumagillin is both cyto- and genotoxic. In humans, it's the drug of last resort. We do need an alternative, but in the interim, a more conservative approach to the use of the drug in bees in warranted - doubling doses is not the answer.
> 
> ...


http://community.lsoft.com/scripts/wa-LSOFTDONATIONS.exe?A2=ind1603&L=bee-l&F=&S=&P=118635

and another from Randy O.



> >
> > >I sent samples to the NBDC in Alberta from all of my yards a couple of
> > times and could find no correlation between spore count and productivity or
> > spore count and overwintering success.
> ...


http://community.lsoft.com/scripts/wa-LSOFTDONATIONS.exe?A2=ind1603&L=bee-l&F=&S=&P=116219


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## bean tree homestead (Nov 18, 2013)

also look in to what they call doing "hot shots". Its small feed baggies of fumagillin and syrup in a concentrated form. The article made reference to how well it worked with out having to feed so much syrup.


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## Ski (Jan 18, 2007)

I had a problem with Nosema a few years back and purchased Fumagillin but it was spring and the bees could care less about the syrup with Fumagillin. 
It did clear up by itself but I wish I had known about the drenching.

If you have any kind of a flow on in Evansville I would strongly consider the drenching.


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## bean tree homestead (Nov 18, 2013)

something I have used as well but can not attest to its claims as of yet. It is supposed to help with Nosema.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RK3se3ow4I


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## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

What are we using to determine it is nosema? Nosema A. is of little concern anymore and Nosema C. does not cause dysentery. Maybe the bees just have dysentery! This sometimes happen in early springtime. Hence why it clears up by itself.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I think I'll order some Fumagillin and treat them next week, can't hurt ...

Well, actually... it kills off the bacteria that produce the biofilm that protects them from Nosema... and AFB... and EFB... and it causes birth defects in mammals... we are mammals... AND it makes Nosema cerana worse...

http://journals.plos.org/plospathogens/article?id=10.1371/journal.ppat.1003185

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnosema.htm


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## BadBeeKeeper (Jan 24, 2015)

bean tree homestead said:


> also look in to what they call doing "hot shots". Its small feed baggies of fumagillin and syrup in a concentrated form. The article made reference to how well it worked with out having to feed so much syrup.


I didn't know it had a name, that's what I've been doing all along. Instead of a dose in a gallon of syrup, I put it in a quart, and it goes in a quart zip-lock on top of the frames in the top box. When they finish it, they get a second dose in the same manner.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

a good write up on nosema on bee-l .



> What I find interesting - in my own experience, I've seldom seen the Big D in the absence of N. apis, and I've never seen it in the presence of N. ceranae alone.
> 
> In work with Robert Cramer, we've seen N. apis in conjunction with N. ceranae, but if we only see one Nosema, it's always been shown by PCR to be N. ceranae. I don't agree with the hypothesis that N. ceranae is displacing N. apis. If we look in the locations and at the times of the year when we used to see N. apis, we still find it. On the other hand, from 2006-2010, we hardly ever found a sample of bees without some presence of N. ceranae at any time of the year; but that's not true anymore. Just as N. apis typically appeared in the spring and then disappeared in strong colonies in summer, we now have trouble finding N. ceranae in the summer in northwestern states. But as I have said before, our N. ceranae tends to peak here in MT in fall-winter, which is inconsistent with the reports from South Eastern areas from Richard Fell.
> 
> As per the notion that the Big D is not associated with N. apis, the older book talking about microsporidia, says of N. apis that infected bees show no signs of disease, but are shorter lived and have less well developed, vacuolated hypophyaryngeal glands and fat bodies, show an accelerated age-related schedule of tasks, a reduction of pollen collecting, and reduced life span that can be partially offset by pollen feeding. And then it says: "infected bees become dysenteric, which may serve the spread of the disease within the colony".



http://community.lsoft.com/scripts/wa-LSOFTDONATIONS.exe?A2=ind1604&L=bee-l&F=&S=&P=27974


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Big D?


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

I can't change what they post. Dysentery.


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## sassafrastree (May 12, 2016)

Hi, I was advised to begin dosing with Fumagillin in sugar syrup right away after installation; in southwestern Michigan, we have an abundance of natural food sources early on, so I'm, first, not sure they'll even want the syrup, and second, not sure how my bees were treated before I got them. I did feed with patties at first, once I installed the package, but once they figured out where the real stuff was, they have only picked at the bits left. I plan to use the Memorial Day weekend to do some intensive reading (your books, Michael, and some general bee info), as I feel so behind the curve on this (long and unnecessary story). What I don't want to do is be too aggressive and kill them or be so laid back that I kill them. I feel so responsible! :s So, can I stall on the treatment for a time? Skip it altogether? I promise I'll study hard over the weekend!!


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## sassafrastree (May 12, 2016)

Another related question: I'm not even really interested in taking any honey from this hive this year. Can I just leave it for their food source? The article you referenced suggests that would be a good idea versus sugar syrup. What if they were treated in-package with Fumagillin?


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