# bee abuse?



## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

What? The dude had 45 hives in a small backyard in an urban area surrounded by other people. That's not right either.


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## BeeManiac (Feb 26, 2012)

1 or 45 whats the difference? It sounds like you couldn't even see them there. We all know what they do. Up and away. The space they need is in the box. Outside doesnt matter as we all know and to tell beeks that its inhumane? And to "raid" his house!?!? and take his property? How many wasp nests are on the average house? how many yellow jackets and hornets are all through the city? How many feral bee nests in walls and ceilings? Were any of the neighbors stung? I still cant get over the fact that they raided his house...


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## Keth Comollo (Nov 4, 2011)

45 unregistered hives in a Queens driveway. Too funny!


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## ralittlefield (Apr 25, 2011)

BeeManiac said:


> 1 or 45 whats the difference?


44.

Swarms, aggressive hives, bees in neighbors (lots of neighbors!) pools, bird baths, hummingbird feeders. Perhaps this is a good reason to require registration of hives. Do you really not see a problem with what he was doing?

Calling it abuse of the bees is a big stretch, but really, 45 hives in that location!


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## Keth Comollo (Nov 4, 2011)

> 1 or 45 whats the difference?


Somebody has obviously never been to Queens.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

I have read a different report on this. What you might not know from this report is that the neighbors did know very well that the bees where there. that they can in fact be seen and that they actually had to pass within three feet of some of these hives. There had been complaints made about these hives in the past and nothing was done about it. Even the beekeeper himself said it had gotten out of control and he could not keep up with it.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Yelp, definitely not a suburban setting...it's a little crowded. At least the wooden "barracades" will keep the bees inside and keep them from stinging folks walking down the sidewalk from getting stung...  I do hope they work it out so the guy can at least have a couple of hives there...maybe get the ok for some roof-top apiaries from some building owners scattered about. But, the current location for 45 colonies seems to be very bad to me.
The article that goes with this picture can be read here: http://mycrappyneighbor.com/2012/08/23/queens-ny-neighbor-kept-over-3-million-bees-in-his-backyard/ That looks like an "interesting" website itself. :lpf:









Ed


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Ok, this is the best article that I've seen on the situation yet. It also has a picture at the bottom of the article that better shows the surroundings that these bees were being kept in...it seems that just one or two hives could cause problems here... Ed

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...an-stunning-sting-operation-article-1.1142574


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## BeeManiac (Feb 26, 2012)

I personally would never have 45 in the city. But who am i to get in someone elses business? Who am i to "raid" someones house. Who makes the rules saying thats too many? Common sense would have slowed most of us down a long time ago. I think, in my mind its how they went about it all. This guy is from a totally different culture not even speaking english. People exaggerate lots of things, all the quotes from the neighbors are obviously from people that have no clue. Not one person was stung.


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## casinoken (May 6, 2012)

U guys need to read the article. The Chinese "owner" of the bees couldn't handle them, he called for help, the hives were unregistered, and had been robbed of all their honey by the Chinese man who was selling it. The President of the Apiary Society that checked them stated that the bees were in such poor condition, they probably would not survive. This is one of the rare instances where I have to support what the local government did, although they should have done something when the first complaints came in from neighbors months ago, that way the bees may have been saved.
Just another example of how inefficient and useless government at any level is.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

BeeManiac said:


> <snip>... Not one person was stung.


It is understood that Chen is from another culture BUT he chose to come to THIS culture which has it's rules/laws. I won't go into the issue of him not speaking English but I will say that the Declaration of Independence, the US Constituion, our Bill of Rights, bee ordinances in New York, and many other important documents were all written in English. If you were to go to China to live you can rest assured that you would abide by their rules or you could very likely be raided and I'm sure they wouldn't do it as nicely as they did in Queens...there would also be no pity for you if you couldn't speak Chinese. As for who makes the rules...the City of New York, ya think? The beekeeping community had to work at getting keeping bees allowed. People such as this guy could undermine the efforts of lots of beekeepers. As for how they went about it all...aparently there had been numerous complaints to the man and to the city. Eventually the city had to respond with their authroity when the person ignored their inquiries. Here is a quote from the last article that I listed:

“It’s gotten out of hand,” he said. “I don’t have the time or resources to do this.”

That is a quote from Chen...he's admitting himself that he couldn't handle the bees anymore. But, then he yells when they take them away. Go figure. 

You stated that "Not one person was stung". How do you know this? Go back and read your sentence prior to that statement.

In my eyes Chen was showing little regard for the men, women, and children that lived nearby or traveled down that sidewalk. BeeManiac, you stated "I personally would never have 45 in the city." Why not? What reasons would keep you from keeping this many hives there? Those reasons are some of the same ones that Chen should have paid attention to.

I'm sorry that Chen lost his bees but he should have chosen (using common sense) a better location for them. As I've already stated, I hope that he can work something out so he can continue to keep bees but not at the expense of other peoples safety and peace of mind. Actually, going from a single hive to 45 hives in two years is fantastic...somebody needs to hire this guy to work their bee yards!!!! 

Sadly, the different articles seem to only paint beekeeping and honey bees in a negative light and these articles are courtesy of Chen's actions. 

I'm all for small government, less government interference, etc.,. But this situation is what laws are written for and why we have people in places of authority to enforce those laws. Otherwise we have anarchy.

Ed


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

casinoken said:


> <snip>
> Just another example of how inefficient and useless government at any level is.


I think we agree that if it hadn't been for the government's intervention the bees would still be sitting there probably to starve over the winter and folks would still be swatting at bees as they walk down the sidewalk. I wonder, though, if it wasn't a situation of the government dragging it's feet in response but rather the government trying to give an imigrant/citizen time to correct the situation on his own...and when he did not remedy the situation the government authority stepped in. It would be interesting to note when the first communication happened between Chen and the city and what that communication consisted of. If this was the first contact between the two then I think the city's actions were excessive. If they had already been in contact with each other and Chen failed to respond then all bets are off for Chen.

Ed


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## tabby (Jul 11, 2012)

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...on-bees-seized-from-queens-ny-mans-home?lite/

The owner of the bees, Chen:
“It’s gotten out of hand,” Chen told The Daily News Wednesday night as New York City Police Department officials and volunteers from the Beekeepers Association collected the bees. “I don’t have the time or resources to do this.”

He contacted the NY beekeepers association through his real estate agent because he's trying to sell his house. Neighbors had complained previously but nothing was done until now, which is AFTER he contacted someone about selling hives.

He also took ALL of the honey out of the hives leaving the bees with nothing for the winter.


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## tabby (Jul 11, 2012)

Sorry, it looks like I posted the same time as many others. 
Again, sorry.


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## tabby (Jul 11, 2012)

Ok, this is probably a dumb question, but if these hives were moved to Florida or somewhere south with flowers, would they survive?
I can't tell from the article is they were just robbed of all their honey or if they were sick as well.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

It is definitely a confusing situation... And I'm not too sure about this Cote guy. It seems he's pumping up the populations of these hives...60K to 80K bees in each hive???? Somebody really needs to hire Chen!!!! (Just teach him to leave some food on the hives for the bees). Something else is that Cote stated "That's something like 3 million bees, which is more bees than there are people in Queens". Gee, I've got more bees behind my house than there are people in my county and the several surrounding counties...and I've only got three hives. That statement by Cotes and the population figure for each hive seems more like showmanship to me rather than usable information. But, in Cotes defense, I think his take on the food reserves was good...hopefully some beeks can either feed these bees or combine them with other hives. It would be a shame for them to starve to death.

Ed


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

tabby, I saw no mention of disease but if they're in a weakened state there could be disease present.

If they are healthy and were put on good forage I would think they'd do good. Bees know what they need to do, they just need the resources to do it.

Ed


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## Keth Comollo (Nov 4, 2011)

BeeManiac said:


> This guy is from a totally different culture not even speaking english.


Where in the story does it say he doesn't speak English? Are you just assuming because of his Chinese heritage that he can't speak English? And if you are such an expert on the language you might understand that the word is capitalized when used as a proper noun.


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## psnolte (Sep 4, 2011)

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...on-bees-seized-from-queens-ny-mans-home?lite/

"Cote said Chen's real estate agent contacted him a few weeks ago and told him that Chen, who only speaks Mandarin..."


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

BeeManiac said:


> Liberals trying to destroy everything someone works hard for.


Tailgater crap. Take it elsewhere. W talk bees here.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

BeeManiac said:


> Liberals trying to destroy everything someone works hard for. Theft is what that is. I feel awful for that man. Most inspectors never come around and because he doesn't pay he cant play? More and more taxes. The Gov will steal from you up front or after the fact and that makes me sick. I cant believe that beek helped them move the hives. Big gov and HSUS is ruining this country. .02 cents grrr


Lots of nassumptions about people youn don't know leading to comments more appropriate to Tailgater in my opinion.

45 colonies in a 20'by20' space is abusive? I have a friend in a small town in Northern NY w/ the same set up. His hives thrive and produce loads of comb honey in a good year. Calling this abusive is rediculous.

Does NYC pull over and ticket semis loaded w/ beehives traveling down Rt 95 thru the City because of abusive confinement of hundrfeds of hives w/in a space 8'by45'? I don't think so.


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## BeeManiac (Feb 26, 2012)

Sqkcrk, I talk to alot of people in Ohio and i deal with my own inspector and we all have a terrible time with them. Im not assuming my experiences with bee inspectors. Sqkcrk, thanks for mentioning that again. Space only matters in the hive.
It does say in another article that he does not speak English im not assuming.
It does say in another article that he realized it was too much and he was trying to cut back his numbers.
I have over 30 hives right now that dont have enough for winter. Who are any of you to call me a bee killer. 
Do you know my intent? Why would i purposely let my bees starve? Im going to feed feed feed. 
How do you go from one or two hives to 45 not taking care of your bees? 
why would any of you believe there are 45 active hives there? it says right in one article that if you do the math it comes to 3.7 million and they round up 4 million? adding 300 thousand?
Of course it makes us look bad, all of us. Im not upset with you guys and not trying to pick a fight. There are just alot of exaggerations in these news stories and its hard to read between the lines. I just wish there was a way beekeepers could have worked beyond the language barrier and handled this awhile ago.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

What about the Liberals? You failed to mention Liberals.

And the beekeepers you mention in your last sentence? Where would they come from? How would they know that aid was needed? Had they offered aid and it was accepted, yet the outcome were not a positive one, would you be angry and call them Liberals? My point being, identifying someone as being Liberal w/out evidence was unwarranted.


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## BeeManiac (Feb 26, 2012)

Keth Comollo said:


> Where in the story does it say he doesn't speak English? Are you just assuming because of his Chinese heritage that he can't speak English? And if you are such an expert on the language you might understand that the word is capitalized when used as a proper noun.


Keth, you are the one assuming. You assume, that isn't so because you did not read more than one article or missed it. Then make smart remarks towards me. I on the other hand read more than one article on the subject. I never claimed to be an expert in the English language but i did however see it highlighted in red and didn't care enough to go back and fix it. Thank you for the lesson.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

I don't have issues with 45 hives in that spacing, it is a little cramped but the bees don't care. Seriously though BeeManiac, you don't think having 45 hives in a neighborhood with houses crammed next to eachother with people all around isn't the least bit irrresponsible? Most of the hives in the pictures look active to me with bees sitting on the porch. If you look at most urban laws regarding bees you need to meet certain requirements, I don't see most of those requirements met there. On the abuse issues... I agree with you on that. Who knows what his intentions were but it sounded like most of the hives were in rough shape but they're just insects right. Maybe he had let them go recently since he was selling... who knows who cares. You just don't place how ever many bees he had in that kind of setting, it's not responsible beekeeping, it's not being a good neighbor.


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## BeeManiac (Feb 26, 2012)

Im sorry for the liberal comment you're right that is unwarranted. I have a bad attitude towards anyone taking any property that belongs anyone else these days under the authority of law. There is a certain group of people that are behind this in most not all circumstances. They are called liberals.
It says in one of the articles he wanted help, he knew it was too much. With that being said where did it say he didnt want their help? Where did it say he turned down reasonable offers on the hives?
It is not illegal for him to have 100 hives there. ill advised but not illegal.
What im getting at with all of this is that any one of you with bees in the city could be next.
As one of you guys said 1 or 2 could be too many there but is it?
We're all so quick to pass judgement on this guy no one understands with only articles filled with half truths that we've read. Who are we to pass judgement?


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Bottom line for me and from what I can tell....just too high of a traffic area for 45 hives...the bees had just as soon sting liberals as they would conservatives...last time I noticed they didn't ask for a voter card. 

Ed


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## BeeManiac (Feb 26, 2012)

JRG13 said:


> I don't have issues with 45 hives in that spacing, it is a little cramped but the bees don't care. Seriously though BeeManiac, you don't think having 45 hives in a neighborhood with houses crammed next to eachother with people all around isn't the least bit irrresponsible? Most of the hives in the pictures look active to me with bees sitting on the porch. If you look at most urban laws regarding bees you need to meet certain requirements, I don't see most of those requirements met there. On the abuse issues... I agree with you on that. Who knows what his intentions were but it sounded like most of the hives were in rough shape but they're just insects right. Maybe he had let them go recently since he was selling... who knows who cares. You just don't place how ever many bees he had in that kind of setting, it's not responsible beekeeping, it's not being a good neighbor.


I agree, you're right, and as i said in a previous comment i would not do that. I respect my neighbors too much. My argument is for the way the handled this guy.


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

The article appears to want to make him out to be abusive... rather like the bees are kittens or puppies. Says he took all their honey, gee guess I have been abusive too. Surely a guy who went from 1->45 hives (and was a beekeeper in China) knows that he is going to have to feed the bees.... after all the syrup is going to be alot less expensive than the honey.... which he probably sells.

In an urban setting like Queens, he probably does need to relocate the hives... maybe develop some outyards... bet it could be done, Confiscating the hives seems rash.... I hope he was compensated.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

I agree with you there. He asked for help and they just came in and confiscated everything it seems. Anyone know the specific laws regulating beekeeping there? I can't imagine they didn't restrict the numbers for urban beekeeping. Around here the standard is 2 hives per household (within city limits). Whats the registration cost there? Is it per hive or location. Maybe we have it lucky here, but it's $10 per location or so, doesn't matter how many hives are there. I think it could've been handled better but I can't feel sorry for the guy. He did not register his hives which may have prompted their removal. Hopefully he can get some back.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

In an urban setting like Queens, he probably does need to relocate the hives... maybe develop some outyards... bet it could be done, Confiscating the hives seems rash.... I hope he was compensated.[/QUOTE]

Compensate him for what? He could try for litigation, but the city could turn around and fine him $2k per hive since they weren't registered. I would avoid kicking the perverbial bee's nest on that issue. Maybe if he had been more responsible I would be on his side, but it seems like the typical case of ignoring the rules and seeing how long he could get away with it. Ignorance isn't an excuse either.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I can't answer your questions JRG. But I do know that if one does not provide a water source for ones bees one can get ticketed for violation of an ordinance requiring the availability of water.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

Yes sqkcrk, that's what I would like to know, I guess I could look them up, but most areas you need to provide water and at least a 6' high fence for starters.


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## BeeManiac (Feb 26, 2012)

sqkcrk said:


> I can't answer your questions JRG. But I do know that if one does not provide a water source for ones bees one can get ticketed for violation of an ordinance requiring the availability of water.


sqkcrk, you have got to be joking?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

No, I am not joking. I can't tell you where to look it up, but I have read articles on line about peole in Queens, I believe, getting ticketed for not providing water for their bees. I don't know if they have to make them drink what is provided. Nuts, eh?


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

I believe I have seen the same thing... except I believe it was Manhattan. Back when WLC was discussing his urban (NYC) bees. A visible water source was required. Wonder if bees on a roof top in NYC would die of thirst without it... doubt it.


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## BeeManiac (Feb 26, 2012)

sqkcrk said:


> No, I am not joking. I can't tell you where to look it up, but I have read articles on line about peole in Queens, I believe, getting ticketed for not providing water for their bees. I don't know if they have to make them drink what is provided. Nuts, eh?


LOL ,total nuts, 45 hives in driveways, forced to put out water, forced to fence, bee police, and no large soda on top of it =)


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## Kelbor (Apr 26, 2011)

"Neighbors said they had become fed up with all the buzz because of the insects, and that the bees have, at times, attacked in swarms, according to CBS."

Swarm attacks! Run! So...was CBS there or did the neighbors tell CBS. I hate the news more and more every time I hear a news report. It seems that the first time 30,000 bees attacked a person in a 'swarm' the cops/animal control/ city would have been all over it.


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## Dan. NY (Apr 15, 2011)

The Bee Keeping laws in NYC require you to have a water source for your hives. Also required to register your hives. Also a few other things such as not being a nuisance. The law that was broken here was not registering his hives, not cramming 45 hives in a small location, and not having too many hives. I am not aware of legislation limiting the number of hives, though I bet that will happen soon. Also it is no fee to register. Nothing I read in these articles mentions the water source was violated, but it is written in the law that a water source is required. FYI - I work in midtown Manhattan and attended a bee keeping class in Central Park this past winter. The instructor is a wealth of bee knowledge and freely donates his time to teaching about bees. During class, stories come up about neighbors who complain about the bees. Its does not matter 1-45 hives. Someone will get mad and complain in NYC and surrounding areas..

I have to say I am impressed though. If this guy can keep 45 hives going in that setting good for him. The thought in NYC is that there is not enough of a bee population to support rearing of new queens. One would think this many hives should have an adequate drone population. I actually hope that some swarms were cast off and survive.

Dan


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## Keth Comollo (Nov 4, 2011)

BeeManiac said:


> I just wish there was a way beekeepers could have worked beyond the language barrier and handled this awhile ago.


Where is the language barrier you mention? 



> Cote said Chen, a beekeeper in his native China, had contacted the beekeepers' association earlier in the month for help with the bees because he was trying to sell his Corona, Queens, home.





> “It’s gotten out of hand,” Chen told The Daily News Wednesday night.


You seem to indicate the problem was because of his heritage yet nothing in any of the stories that I have read indicate that was the issue. He contacted the beekeepers association and spoke with the news. Perhaps instead of railing against the government and those of a different heritage than yourself you might want to consider this just a case of poor judgement. Something anybody, English speaking or not, can be guilty of at any time.


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## tabby (Jul 11, 2012)

While it is not required to put out a water source here where I live, it is recommended in order to help prevent the bees from going to neighbor's swimming pools. So I can see why it is required where Chen lives.
That said, I find the bees ignore the water I put out for them a few feet from the hives, but they love the water in the same type of container 200 feet from the hives. 

The story gets more convoluted. According to some other stuff I read, Chen had arranged to sell the hives the very same day they were confiscated. Someone was coming over to pack them up when the police arrived. 
I don't know what to believe about this story anymore.


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## Dan. NY (Apr 15, 2011)

I have a copy of a large article on this written by a Chinese newspaper in Flushing Queens. Ill translate it and summarize it here. Hopefully it will be more factual.

Dan


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

I came across an article called "Drinking From the Trough of Indignation" 
That was the term used to describe what is behind the action of seeking situations to be publicly indignant about, even though for the most part they just are as they are. No requirement to provide any logical working solution!


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## giant pumpkin peep (Mar 14, 2009)

The main reason I posted it was the bee abuse part, comparing beehives to dogs. I do agree that having 45 hive in that location is irresponsible, but not "abusive".


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## frostygoat (Jun 3, 2008)

if the guy built his bees up to 45 hives, he isn't that bad of a beekeeper. Maybe he just bought packages but somehow I doubt it. That makes the abuse claims dubious. The sensationalist reporter clearly lacks any understanding of apiculture, and appears to have done zero research. The part about breaking the law is a problem, but it is highly likely he wasn't familiar with the law. They could have given him time to amend the situation before confiscation, it doesn't sound like they did.


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## cerezha (Oct 11, 2011)

In Santa Monica (CA) we could have only 2 beehives. Beehives must be 5 (or 6) feet away from property line and directed away from neighbors or 6' fence is required. Source of water on the property is mandatory. When I talk to inspector, he told me that registration (free) is for my protection in case of neighbor's complain. In my opinion, SM bee-ordinance is reasonable. I wish to have more beehives, but I do understand that it may disturb my neighbors. Speaking about disturbance - we have neighbor with parrot, which (parrot) made weird noises non-stop day and night. I hate it, but I could not complain since I feel that my neighbor will complain regarding my bees in revenge. Every weekend, my neighbor got drunk and made a lot of noise... I am not sure who creates more disturbances, my bees or my neighbor. 

As for original story - I think, such stories create a lot of damage to urban beekeeping idea. Our bee-club is on a vendetta against urban beekeeping in Los Angeles. I personally think that urban beekeeping should be permitted.
Sergey


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

I wonder if Andrew Coté and Detective Tony Planakis shared the bees? Each taking a liberal amount of bees to separate, undisclosed locations...


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## mike haney (Feb 9, 2007)

Irregardless of the skill of the Chinese beekeeper ,
Irregardless of the inflammatory language ( "bee abuse" ) in the news media,
Your rights end where mine begin.
The neighbors and the public have a right to travel the sidewalk unmolested by this mans bees.
He should be thankful he has not been billed for the costs of remedying his "got out of hand..." hobby/business


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

It *would* be interesting to *truly* know what happened to the bees...even the woodenware, being as there was several dollars worth of that, too. But, being un-registered the guy can't raise too much of a fuss about it or the $2000 fine per hive might suddenly raise it's ugly head...and it wouldn't surprise me if someone is betting on that fear.  Of course, the authorities may be setting up a nice bee yard somewhere in a wonderful rural setting and intend to surprise Chen with it....sure, that's probably it and they're all going to give him a group hug!!! :gh:

Lesson One: if you are allowed to have bees and all you have to do is register them....register them. If the guy had registered his bees then the authorities would be grasping at straws for ways to take them. As it was, they cited the law/ordanance which he had broken and legally took the bees from him. It appears that the authorities are playing "nice" and haven't laid the fine on him....yet. Register your bees/apiary to be legal and there's no need to look over your shoulder or worry about being "raided". If your town allows beekeeping it isn't like we're growing pot and have to do it in secret! :no:

Note...if your city altogether bans beekeeping and you're a guerrilla beekeeper refer to the statement given in the intro scenes from episodes of "Mission Impossible". 

Lesson Two: Use some common sense where you put bees. This guy *knew* these bugs would STING and knew that if one got hung in somebody's clothes or in their hair or in their baby stroller than it *would* sting. But yet he still put a large (in my eyes) bee yard in a high pedestrian traffic area. He appears to be an experienced beekeeper with several years of experience. Considering his experience what he did by placing so many bees in that situation was irresponsible, selfish, and showed very little, if any, regards for his fellow human beings. Financial gain at the expense of others peace and safety appears to me to be Chen's motive for doing this.

Whatever the case, I hope we find out what ended up happening with the bees.

Ed


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

mike haney said:


> Irregardless of the skill of the Chinese beekeeper ,
> Irregardless of the inflammatory language ( "bee abuse" ) in the news media,
> Your rights end where mine begin.
> The neighbors and the public have a right to travel the sidewalk unmolested by this mans bees.
> He should be thankful he has not been billed for the costs of remedying his "got out of hand..." hobby/business


Right Mike.

Does the addition of "ir" to regardless make something even more regardless? Or does it make it not regardless? Just curious.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> Right Mike.
> 
> Does the addition of "ir" to regardless make something even more regardless? Or does it make it not regardless? Just curious.


I agree. Well said, Mike.

Mark, there ain't no difference, just depends on who's sayin' it and where they're from. I didn't have any problem understanding what Mike said walago and I betcha a bunch of other folks didn't think nothin' of it either. 

Ed


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

I caught what Mike was pitchin' and agree; Mark was just being a bit cantankorous and changin the subject from flossifie to gramma! The wife used to get a bit like that once a month but she got over it. :lookout:


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## mike haney (Feb 9, 2007)

sqkcrk said:


> Right Mike.
> 
> Does the addition of "ir" to regardless make something even more regardless? Or does it make it not regardless? Just curious.


You're kidding I hope
If not for spell check and auto fill I couldnt use a computer at all much less this smartphone


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

crofter said:


> I caught what Mike was pitchin' and agree; Mark was just being a bit cantankorous and changin the subject from flossifie to gramma! The wife used to get a bit like that once a month but she got over it. :lookout:


Pretty good crofter, pretty good.

irregardless, found in most dictionarys listed as "informal" or "incorrect". Has been found in use since the late 18th century. So I guess, even though the "ir" is unnecassary the word has found common enough usage to become acceptable(?). Your spell check okayed the spelling? Well, okay then. I did agree w/ what you wrote.

Has anyone looked at the websites of the two beekeeping associations in NY, one of which Andrew Cote started and may still head? nycitybeekeepers.com, I think. And gothamcitybeekeepers.com, again, I think. Something like that anyway.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

I learned from someone close to the story that Mr. Chen had hives registered, but far fewer than he possessed...


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

BeeCurious said:


> I learned from someone close to the story that Mr. Chen had hives registered, but far fewer than he possessed...


Here are a couple of quotes from the registrationform:

"_Furthermore, any changes to information (provided in the registration form) should be reported within 10 business days to
the DOHMH at the address listed below._" 

Then further down the form...

"_For new beekeepers, the registration form should be mailed to DOHMH within 30 days after acquiring the beehives_".

If Chen indeed had a hive registered it seems that the authorities were bound by the registration form to give him 10 days to get his registration information up to date....IF there were no other violations. It seems a 10 day notice would have covered the City of NY's behind. The registration form has some requirements, though....

"_Beekeepers are required to adhere to appropriate beekeeping practices including:
 maintaining bee colonies in moveable-frame hives that are kept in sound and usable condition
 providing a constant, clean and adequate water source (HOW DO THEY AVOID STANDING WATER VIOLATION
SIMILAR TO THE BIRD BATH SITUATION?)
 locating hives on a site so that the movement of bees does not become an public or animal nuisance.

Beekeepers should be able to respond immediately to control bee swarms and to remediate nuisance conditions. A
beekeeping nuisance means conditions including, but not limited to:
 aggressive or objectionable bee behaviors
 hive placement or bee movement that interferes with pedestrian traffic or persons residing on or adjacent to the hive
premises
 overcrowded, deceased or abandoned hives._"

I don't think there is any danger of him getting the $2000 fines if he goes ahead and "updates" his registration information (who knows, he might have just got the "extra" hives  ). He clearly violated some of the "practices" that beekeepers are "required to adhere to", but...laws? Are these actual laws? What are the stated penalties for failing to meet these requirements?

I am beginning to wonder if NYC did indeed jump the gun on confiscating Chen's bees without giving him warning or time to remedy the situation. Keeping that many bees in that spot was bad judgement on Chen's part, but maybe there was some bad judgement on the authorities' part, too?:scratch: I guess if Chen finds a Mandarin speaking lawyer maybe we'll find out what ultimately happens to the bees. :s

As I stated earlier...it is definitely a confusing situation...which we are probably making even more confusing (to us). 

Ed


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## Dan. NY (Apr 15, 2011)

FYI - The article in Chinese says the realitor called the bee keeping society. Other than that its similar to the English version.


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## GLOCK (Dec 29, 2009)

45 hives is way to many bee's to have in town.
I have 17 on 12 acers and i know in JULY AND AUG. my bee's get pissy and i'm not in my bee yard as much and if i am i better have my suit on or i'm going to get zapped .
If i lived in town i would not keep bee's people first thats what a town is for people .


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## Dan. NY (Apr 15, 2011)

You know this gentleman was exercising his right to have bees, except for the registering part. None of the articles I saw mention about neighbors being stung or pedestrians afraid to walk the street. Like it or not, he was (almost) legal.


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## mike haney (Feb 9, 2007)

Reread the links to the news articles,there had been many complaints by neighbors about the bees and their proximity to the sidewalk


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

Well, "believe it, or not", there are varieties/strains of honey bees that are docile enough that they would never become a human or animal stinging issue, even in a situation such as this one. They would virtually need to be forced to sting, by physical manipulation. I'm not saying that Mr. Chen was keeping these kinds of bees, but it would be possible to keep a great many colonies of very docile strains, in close proximity, queenless, in a dearth, etc. and never have a significant problem with stinging.

If you aren't aware that truly docile honey bees exist, then you are missing the experience of working with those kinds of bees, and your beekeeping education is still lacking.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

This is copied from one of the articles I read. It is comments made by neighbors about complaining and having to walk through swarms of bees and the fear it put them through.

I just hope no one arguing to ban beekeeping within city limits ever gets there hands on this conversation. Some of you have gone a long way toward making a good argument for them.

"Many of the neighbors were tremendously upset about the bees and fearful to walk out their door because it literally led to three feet from the mouth of an open hive, each of which had approximately 60 to 80,000 bees," Cote said.

Cote said he advised Chen to immediately register the hives with the city, per local regulations, and also gave him suggestions to make the situation better for his terrified neighbors.

One resident, Louie Socci, told the Daily News he called the city once to complain.

“It’s like a big swarm of a couple million bees. You never seen anything like it in your life,” Socci told The Daily News. “The guy’s nuts. I called the city once and they didn’t do anything.”


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## GLOCK (Dec 29, 2009)

JOSEPH you are so right i am only a 3d year bee keeper and failed the first year and my beekeeping education is still lacking but i sure am learning i can only get better 17 hives and growing .
Got a swarm today don't know why lack of beekeeping education i geuss my SPM sucked this year.


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