# Inner cover hole



## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

I use a hole saw (2 1/8") typically. If I want to feed, I use a couple of 3/4" shims to prop under the jar.


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## tefer2 (Sep 13, 2009)

2 7/8 jar hole


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

I use a hole saw (2-7/8"?...I'll have to check the size). The size saw that I use, along with a little bit of sanding/rasping *will* allow the lid to fit down inside the hole. 

I put the hole between the escape hole and the edge of the inner cover on the end opposite the entrance/vent slot in the rim. I make sure to drill the hole far enough from the escape hole and edge of the cover so that I can put two jars side-by-side if I want to.

I also screen over the top of the holes with #8 mesh and set the jars on top of the screen. The bees will seal the screen with propolis when there isn't a feed jar there. I figure they know if they want it sealed or not and it creates a good barrier against shb and wax moth. I've seen where they've also opened the sealed holes back up. By this time they are established and don't require feeding anyhow. If the bees have sealed the screen and I need to feed or want to open the vent it is simple to remove and replace.

If you use regular mason jar rings and lids (rather than 1-piece lids) you might consider putting the lid in the ring "upside down" so that the offset of the lid protrudes outwards toward the mesh...this will bring help the lid and mesh contact better and make it easier on the bees to feed through the mesh. It will work without flipping the lid, too, though. OJ Blunt down below Andalusia gave me the flipped lid tip.

You ever do anything on your extractor? I'm still pondering over them... 

Ed


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## laketrout (Mar 5, 2013)

Still looking Ed , I'm leaning towards one of the Italian made models , the 18 frame seems like way overkill for me but its only a 100.00 more than the 9 frame . Also I found a Kelly honey warmer , it looks like the same stainless tank used on a extractor but with a threaded port on the bottom for a heating element and a big paddle in the middle to stir the honey while its warming . Thought I would check with kelly and see if any of the extractor baskets would fit it , there's a pulley on top of the paddle shaft and I have motors laying around but there not variable speed ,if they don't have a basket I don't think it would take much to make one the only problem is he wants 200.00 for it but if it will fit 8 or 9 frames it might be worth it .Any suggestions .


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Not sure what to say about the warming tank. Look at the cost of it and what you would have to add to it, along with your time and effort, etc., and see how close the total cost comes to that of the 9-frame SAF. I've decided the new motor is probably as good as the old motor so I'm not going to let that issue bug me anymore. To be honest, I haven't been studying over it too much lately, though hopefully I'll come to a conclusion by this fall when I can get free delivery to our state beekeeper meeting (unless, of couse, I go with a MannLake one which would qualify for free shipping).

Ed


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## Scpossum (May 4, 2014)

Regular mason jar lids are 2 3/4 with a little sanding. Just did a bunch of them.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Thanks Scpossum...I just checked an old post of mine and I concur with them being 70mm or 2-3/4". If you Wobble the saw a little and sand the inside of the hole the lid can go down into the hole. What I do, though, is simply staple the screen over the top surface of the inner board. I have ran into some old mason jars being just a touch to tall to fit. New Balls and Golden Harvest jars fit fine as do most of the old jars. Using the screen I also like to "see" the contact so I know there isn't a gap between lid surface and screen...if not using metal screening then that isn't an issue.

Ed


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

Intheswamp....Please check me on this, but, I believe the Mason Jar when fitted with a cap is 72mm. The jar itself is 70mm, but when you add the top you need a minimum 72mm hole.

If you use a 2 3/4 hole saw ( and I do ), you will need to ream or sand just a little to allow the jar cap to fit inside the hole. I drill all of mine on a drill press, and after cutting the holes, I install a small sanding drum in the drill press, and sand the hole just a little to allow a good fit.

You can order a 72 mm hole saw, but, the cheapest I have found is around $45.00. Doesn't take much time to sand a little with the drum sander in the drill press.

cchoganjr


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## laketrout (Mar 5, 2013)

I tried inverting the lid on the mason jar to get it closer to the screen and it seemed like it wanted to drip constantly , maybe its not getting a good seal , in this way the rubber seal is going against the lid ring and not the bottle , looks like it could make quite a mess .


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

Sounds like you are using the two piece type lid. If so, discard that lid and get the solid type lid. I would expect the two piece lid to leak due to a bad seal.

cchoganjr


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

I also had bad experience with leaking syrup quicker than bee demand if the lid holes touched the screen so I dont try to feed through a screen. Hole size 2 7/8"; at least that what it states. Never measured it but it fits the jars.

I think there is a fair bit of variation in hole sizes cut with different brands having the same "nominal" size.


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## Belewsboy (Jun 6, 2012)

Laketrout...
I just purchased the 18 frame Italian job. I pondered over this for quite a while. While I understand the attributes of the Maxant, the one in the same price range that is advertised as a 9 frame appears to really be a 6 frame radial although the other 3 frames are tangental. I believe if Maxant had a true 9 frame radial I would have gone that route. As I hope the number of hives I have will grow thru the years, I wanted a larger capacity. As you mentioned, the Italian 9 frame is $100 cheaper than the 18 frame, I spent the extra $100. Now I can spin 3 frames up to 18, all radially, any size.
Now...how do I like it? Can't say yet. I drove the hour to pick it up a few days ago, and set it up yesterday. I have only run it without frames. My impression so far? The overall quality appears good. Although it has 2 access doors, you can only open 1 as the motor is in the way of the other. The motor is noisy...not what I expected from a "German" motor, but the speed / direction control works well. Since I've never seen replacement parts in their catalog, I asked about their availability. They stock most and are able to get anything relatively quickly. 
The flow is over here and I'll be extracting soon. Hopefully the machine will work well while spinning a full load. I'll post an update when I put it thru the real test.


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## laketrout (Mar 5, 2013)

I'm surprised to Maxant doesn't have a few more models to choose from as extractors are a big part of there product line I would think , they jump from a 6 frame radial to 20 frame ,no true radial 9 frame or 12 frame in there line up . Did you go through Brushy .


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Cleo C. Hogan Jr said:


> Intheswamp....Please check me on this, but, I believe the Mason Jar when fitted with a cap is 72mm. The jar itself is 70mm, but when you add the top you need a minimum 72mm hole.


I'll take your word on that Mr. Cleo. My lids measure 70mm but I'll have to look and see what my saw is...pretty sure it's a 2-3/4", but my jars don't go down into the hole but instead sit on top of the #8 mesh.

Ed


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

crofter said:


> I also had bad experience with leaking syrup quicker than bee demand if the lid holes touched the screen so I dont try to feed through a screen.


I never have had that problem. :scratch:

Ed


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

Intheswamp... What keeps them from turning over. Do you put another hive body around the jar.

Mine fit so tightly that I have to rock them just a little to get them out of the hole, but, I have never had one come out, and never had a varmit pull one loose. 

cchoganjr


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## Belewsboy (Jun 6, 2012)

laketrout said:


> I'm surprised to Maxant doesn't have a few more models to choose from as extractors are a big part of there product line I would think , they jump from a 6 frame radial to 20 frame ,no true radial 9 frame or 12 frame in there line up . Did you go through Brushy .


Yes...I drove there to pick it up. I guess Maxant figures by the time you decap 12 or 18 frames manually (as opposed to a machine) your extractor will be sitting idle, so a smaller extractor will be more efficient. But I would rather have a 9 frame true radial that takes all sizes of frames than a 9 frame hybrid. And as far as the 18 frame is concerned, I don't have to extract 18 at a time, but if I have an extra set of hands for help in decapping, 18 frames at a time would sure speed things up.


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## laketrout (Mar 5, 2013)

Let me know how things go when you get rolling , and how it works with small loads , I'm still looking , nothing used anywhere.


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## MAXANT (Sep 13, 2008)

What's the deciding factor trout? Do the other brands offer lifetime warranties on their extractors like we do?
We are giving away a free on on our facebook page this month!


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

Intheswamp... I found where I had read the mouth size of the mason jar. It says the outside measurement of the jar mouth is 70mm. Then depending on who made the lid, the outside of the lid would add a couple more mm. If you use the 2 3/4 hold saw, the hole has to be sanded just a little to get a good tight fit in the top.

"Mason jars are made of soda-lime glass and in the U.S. and come in regular mouth 2 [SUP]3[/SUP]⁄[SUB]8[/SUB] in (60 mm) inner [2 [SUP]3[/SUP]⁄[SUB]4[/SUB] in (70 mm) outer] diameter"

I feed exclusively through the top using migratory tops. I like the fact there is no dripping or spilling at the landing board (Boardman feeders), nothing can get in where the jars are inserted, no drowning of bees,( division board feeders and top feeders) and, using a thin piece of cardboard it is easy to keep the bees in while refilling the jars. You can also see how much feed they are taking. 

Intheswamp. I know you already know this, I said it for those who have not used the migratory top feeders. It is the only way I feed.



cchoganjr


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Intheswamp said:


> I never have had that problem. :scratch:
> 
> Ed


Me neither, because that's not what causes leaking. If the jar is much out of level it will leak. If the sun shines on the jar it leaks. They always leak a little when you initially invert the jar. Other than that unless you have rediculously large holes (well over 1/8 inch) it's not a problem. I use jar and bucket feeders exclusively and leaking just isn't a problem.

I used to use a 2 3/4 hole saw, but I now use a 2 3/4 forstner bit - much faster and cleaner - the hole is tight, but you can get the jar in and out easily with practice by twisting it a little - the fit laps quickly under use to a perfect fit. No real need to sand or ream.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

It might be good to note here, that if plastic bottles are used, they will expand and contract with heat and cold, and that will cause leakage. I use pint, quart, half gallon and gallon glass mason jars. Gallon jars are getting hard to find, but, I have several from many years ago. 










The gallon size is good to put on nucs and then just leave them alone for several days.

David...Good to know. I had never thought to use a Forstner bit. I will certainly try it.

cchoganjr


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

I got mine here - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EPBVL0S/ref=oh_details_o07_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

David LaFerney said:


> I got mine here - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EPBVL0S/ref=oh_details_o07_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


I use that bit, but it would not fit directly in my 3/8" drill and requires a drill with a ½" chuck or an adapter.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

You really shouldn't use that bit in a 3/8 drill anyway - you really could hurt yourself as your burn up the drill motor. A big bit like this can break your wrist when it hangs if you are only hanging on to a pistol grip drill handle. I use a drill press.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

David... I agree. Even using a hole saw to cut the hole in Advantec or plywood can be iffy using a hand held drill. A drill press is a much better choice.

cchoganjr


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## herbcoop (Jun 2, 2011)

Since this is something I need I went ahead and liked and shared this... Hopefully I'll win it 



MAXANT said:


> What's the deciding factor trout? Do the other brands offer lifetime warranties on their extractors like we do?
> We are giving away a free on on our facebook page this month!


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## Cloverdale (Mar 26, 2012)

Intheswamp said:


> If you use regular mason jar rings and lids (rather than 1-piece lids) you might consider putting the lid in the ring "upside down" so that the offset of the lid protrudes outwards toward the mesh...this will bring help the lid and mesh contact better and make it easier on the bees to feed through the mesh. It will work without flipping the lid, too, though.
> Ed


I have to think on that one; for some reason my mind can't picture it...could you say it Ina different way?  Deb


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

David LaFerney said:


> I got mine here - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EPBVL0S/ref=oh_details_o07_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Those forstner bits are really nice. They do a great job off removing wood and NO PLUG TO REMOVE like a hole saw does. Maybe it's just me but it seems to take 3 times as long to remove the plug of wood from a hole saw as it does to drill the hole.

I definitely agree with the comment of not using one in a hand held drill. I have a 1/2" 18volt Dewalt that will flip you over if your feet aren't firmly on the ground, and that's just using a 1/2" bit in steel. I can't imagine using a 2 3/4 hole saw or forstner bit in it. I think it might break an arm....


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Cloverdale said:


> I have to think on that one; for some reason my mind can't picture it...could you say it Ina different way?  Deb


When the canning jar lid is in the ring as designed it's an "innie" and there is a gap between the lid and the screen ** which the bees tongues can't easily reach through. If you invert the lid it is an "outie" and it closes up the gap so that they bees can reach it. One piece lids like come on mayonnaise jars are flat and the bees can reach them.

** If you use a screen on the inside of the hole - which you don't have to, but is kind of nice because the bees don't come out to sting you or get in the way and get squashed when you fill the jars.


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

David LaFerney said:


> You really shouldn't use that bit in a 3/8 drill anyway - you really could hurt yourself as your burn up the drill motor. A big bit like this can break your wrist when it hangs if you are only hanging on to a pistol grip drill handle. I use a drill press.


Thank you.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Cloverdale, it looks like David the explanation quiet well...thanks David. You can find solid lids at most of the bee supply companies. You can also find pre-punched lids that have holes already in them. I've bought both and can't remember if one is cheaper than the other.  Whatever the case, I've bought them for less than .20 each in the last couple of years.

Ed


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## Cloverdale (Mar 26, 2012)

David LaFerney said:


> When the canning jar lid is in the ring as designed it's an "innie" and there is a gap between the lid and the screen ** which the bees tongues can't easily reach through. If you invert the lid it is an "outie" and it closes up the gap so that they bees can reach it. One piece lids like come on mayonnaise jars are flat and the bees can reach them.
> 
> ** If you use a screen on the inside of the hole - which you don't have to, but is kind of nice because the bees don't come out to sting you or get in the way and get squashed when you fill the jars.


Ahhhh, thanks....deb


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

BTW if you do plan to screen your jar feeder holes you should make them bigger than 2 3/4 so that the jars will sit directly on the screen.


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## Cloverdale (Mar 26, 2012)

David LaFerney said:


> BTW if you do plan to screen your jar feeder holes you should make them bigger than 2 3/4 so that the jars will sit directly on the screen.


Ok


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## Dunkel (Jun 12, 2009)

I don't make more than a dozen or so at a time. Since the ex-brotherinlaw ended up with my hole saw for lids, I have been just drawing a circle around a lid and drilling out with a wood bit and then using a jig saw. If I was making several it may be a bigger issue.


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## dleemc1 (Dec 31, 2012)

I am thinking about buying the same one you have, the next time I go to brushy mountain I may come home with it.


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## Scpossum (May 4, 2014)

Cleo C. Hogan Jr said:


> Sounds like you are using the two piece type lid. If so, discard that lid and get the solid type lid. I would expect the two piece lid to leak due to a bad seal.
> 
> cchoganjr


FYI:

I have had the inverted lids on for about 10 days now and they don't leak. I made sure they were really tight.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

When I was using them and making my own, yes.


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