# Status Change For Antibiotics In A Beehive



## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

Just bought Fumagilin-B from a bee supplier and there was no mention of a prescription being required.
Was delivered on time as well.


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## Ski (Jan 18, 2007)

The third sentence from the bottom:
It is unclear if Fumagilin B will be subject to the new requirements.

Also I have not heard of this being implemented. But it may be coming.


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## Cyan (Jan 27, 2015)

I read most of this in a related post, several days ago. It's rather upsetting that the Fed wants to take treatment out of the hands of seasoned beeks, and put it in the hands of veterinarians- most of whom don't have an interest or clue about beekeeping. This is nothing more than a continuation of things already started by the current administration- telling people what they can and can't do because the Fed knows best. It's all BS.


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## Ski (Jan 18, 2007)

Apologize for posting it again.


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

Well I guess its time to go to the feed store and stock up on the oxy.


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

I picked up 4 bags fro the feed store today.I also ask a doctor and pharmacist about storing it.The words I got was to put the open bags in a good sealed container to keep moisture out and put in the refrigerator and it will say for years and years.Well I guess mine will last for the rest of my life then.


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

What is oxy


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## Dave Burrup (Jul 22, 2008)

Oxy in this case is Teramyacin. The government is not so much behind these changes as the medical profession. The fear of antibiotic resistance is the leading factor in these changes. A big factor in the development of resistance is residues in our food. A lot of this residue is due to the improper use of these antibiotics.


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## dudelt (Mar 18, 2013)

As Dave said Terramycin. The drug is also known as oxytetracycline


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

the reason for this change is the wto. Europe is telling us what we can and can't do. nothing to do with our medical profession.


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

Wow for once I actually agree with something the FDA is doing. I refuse to use them in my hives but I understand why some people chose too. But I think we can all agree people that don't know what they are doing or why they are doing it shouldn't be dumping it in their hives just in case


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

The only reason I use is when a disease in present.I can see where it prevents much at all.You put it in syrup and it goes bad in a very short time.Grease patties hold up better but then its eaten and gone.Its only good for treating not much for prevention.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Sooooooo if I tell a vet I need some oxy-tet to (as the label states) prevent disease, on what basis could they refuse? :scratch: 
I understand the desire to limit the use of antibiotics but I just can't see this as being very workable.


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

From what I read today is you will have to call out a vet to inspect your disease.Then when he inspects and confirms you have a disease he will give you a prescription.Then you will have to go to a local or online pharmacy or a licensed medicated feed mill to obtain your Oxy.How many small hobby beekeepers can afford to call out a vet to inspect? Now that is going to get really expensive.The same thing goes for a small flock of chickens,your couple of goats or your few pigs.Small hobby farmers will try to hold onto what they have without medications since they cant afford it.Then diseases will start to spread through out! This ruling is a disaster in the making!!!


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

aunt betty said:


> What is oxy


Oxytetracycline, aka Terrimycin soluble powder.

Fumidil isn't an antibiotic, is it?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

jim lyon said:


> Sooooooo if I tell a vet I need some oxy-tet to (as the label states) prevent disease, on what basis could they refuse? :scratch:
> I understand the desire to limit the use of antibiotics but I just can't see this as being very workable.


What would a Vet charge for a prescription and what amount would the prescription be made out for? Each treatment of each hive?

If it looks like this is going to happen expect a rush.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

jim lyon said:


> Sooooooo if I tell a vet I need some oxy-tet to (as the label states) prevent disease, on what basis could they refuse? :scratch:


from the way I read the info provided, they are also getting the manufacturers to remove bees from the label. If bees are not on the label, how can the vet give you a prescription??


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Fumidil isn't an antibiotic, is it?

Yes. It is.

>...but I just can't see this as being very workable.

Me neither.


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## bean tree homestead (Nov 18, 2013)

alternative to Fum B. that I am using this year.
http://www.advancescience.com/bee-diseases/nosema


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

snapper1d said:


> The only reason I use is when a disease in present.I can see where it prevents much at all.You put it in syrup and it goes bad in a very short time.Grease patties hold up better but then its eaten and gone.Its only good for treating not much for prevention.


The grease patties with oxytet (extender patties) are widely believed to be responsible for the hastening of oxytet resistant AFB.

My recolection of the label for oxytet (for bees) is that is is to be used as a preventative, not as a treatment for clinical infections. ...the label is the law, we complain when farmers, big box stores, or lawn care companies take it upon themselves to be "creative" with pesticide applications.


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

antibiotic's are being taken off our market due to the European commission directive 2001/110 as far as I understand. there is zero tolerance for antibiotic's in honey bought in Europe. therefore they told our gov. to take them away from beekeepers or they will not buy from us. the wto is also involved. just another case of other countries telling us what we can and can't do. there was a warning a few weeks ago on beesource it was coming. all I know are the basic's.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

wildbranch2007 said:


> If bees are not on the label, how can the vet give you a prescription??


Here's how ...

https://www.avma.org/KB/Resources/FAQs/Pages/ELDU-and-AMDUCA-FAQs.aspx

A licensed veterinarian is legally allowed to "prescribe extra-label uses of approved animal and human drugs when the health of an animal is threatened ...".


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> Here's how ...
> 
> https://www.avma.org/KB/Resources/FAQs/Pages/ELDU-and-AMDUCA-FAQs.aspx
> 
> A licensed veterinarian is legally allowed to "prescribe extra-label uses of approved animal and human drugs when the health of an animal is threatened ...".


now I'm really impressed, you must have really had to dig to find this:thumbsup: but I gave up trying to read it all.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

beeware10 said:


> antibiotic's are being taken off our market due to the European commission directive 2001/110 as far as I understand. there is zero tolerance for antibiotic's in honey bought in Europe. therefore they told our gov. to take them away from beekeepers or they will not buy from us.


Europe buys honey from us?


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

jim that's why I can 't figure out why our gov conforms to their standards. just more of big gov screwing us to make someone look good. as far as I know there was no input from the beekeeping community.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

deknow said:


> The grease patties with oxytet (extender patties) are widely believed to be responsible for the hastening of oxytet resistant AFB.
> 
> My recolection of the label for oxytet (for bees) is that is is to be used as a preventative, not as a treatment for clinical infections. ...the label is the law, we complain when farmers, big box stores, or lawn care companies take it upon themselves to be "creative" with pesticide applications.


Amen, Dean. Beekeepers are notorious for complaining when someone else uses something incorrectly all the while they themselves are using something off label.

If someone is using TM to treat active case AFB they aren't using it correctly. It is only supposed to be used as a preventative.

I thought TM grease patties were outlawed most places.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

jim lyon said:


> Europe buys honey from us?


Sure they do!
YTD (July 2015) from the USDA National Honey Report
https://www.marketnews.usda.gov/mnp/fv-home

Belgium 2000 Kg
Germany 4100 Kg
Italy 8200 Kg
UK 147 Kg

Worth a whopping $50,000


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

clyderoad said:


> Sure they do!
> YTD (July 2015) from the USDA National Honey Report
> https://www.marketnews.usda.gov/mnp/fv-home
> 
> ...


Ha ha, yes, I stand corrected. A little quick math is telling me that the European business is about 1/6,000ths of our 2014 crop.........looks like we better change those antibiotic regs. before we lose a good customer.


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

my problem is not so much the drugs but the fact that other countries are making our regulations here in the u.s. what's next? It's our business not theirs.


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

Just think,after this starts and you have to have a vet come to your property to check your bees to see what disease you have and then gives you a prescription for your Oxy.The vet visit is going to cost you probably $300 if not more.Then a prescription from a pharmacy!!!!! At the feed store the packages now are $7.95.After this all takes effect you get a very small amount for $40.This happens every time you have a problem.Hobby beeks are in big trouble.Obama's quote was "the common people can not take care of their own business and need the government to step in and run their business for them" I am not downing Obama but this is the thinking of the government!!!!


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## SWM (Nov 17, 2009)

So what's the effective date of this or did I miss it in the OP? I noticed that several suppliers are still offering the terra pre-mix.

My vet wouldn't go anywhere near a bee hive...I can't imagine how this will work.


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

I don't think it's meant to work. they can't use drugs in Europe and they are putting us under the same standards.


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## Tim B (Apr 16, 2009)

Headed out to the farm supply to purchase several year's supply.


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

At my feed store they only had 4 bags and I got them and was going to get several more till i had talked to a doctor and pharmacist about storing it.After that I think I now have way more than I will ever need.I only use it when I see a hive with some EFB.There IMO no reason to treat what you dont have.I dont take antibiotics just in case I might get sick a month down the line and hem the antibiotics I took earlier are already out of my system.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

I send all kinds of stuff out to the two clubs I belong to, pollinator protection, eliminating antibiotics etc, never hear much back about anything.
the only thing people seem to be getting riled up about is doing away with the antibiotics, not so much because of bees, but being in the back woods, they are more worried about the chickens, pigs, goats, and sheep:shhhh: got to find a way to harness the negativity.


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## Tim B (Apr 16, 2009)

Give them five or six weeks of dusting from mid jan to end of feb and again in the fall covering the last brood cycle and you won't see any cases.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Just go to the Great NY State Fair and look at the difference between the Maple Syrup Display and the Honey Booth and you will see where people's priorities lay.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

sqkcrk said:


> Just go to the Great NY State Fair and look at the difference between the Maple Syrup Display and the Honey Booth and you will see where people's priorities lay.


Not sure what you are referring to Mark but anyone that is paying attention can see that there is a growing demand for antibiotic free food production. As honey producers we all have a responsibility to minimize the use of antibiotics and to adhere to the treatment windows on the label. I, like most commercial beekeepers, use Terramycin but the last of it goes on a full 2 months prior to when we put on surplus honey supers. I know it's more difficult if you aren't migratory but you really need a good 6 week buffer perhaps a bit more with Tylosin. Since our customers began testing for antibiotic residue NONE has been detected. I would much prefer that honey testing be ramped up instead of restricting antibiotic availability.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

The Maple Syrup Booth is much better than the Honey Booth. Seems like there must be more Maple Syrup Producers than beekeepers, on a commercial level. We sell honey and have an educational display. They sell syrup, maple cotton candy, maple ice cream and milk shakes, and have a production display. I mere square footage difference says something.


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

Tim B said:


> Give them five or six weeks of dusting from mid jan to end of feb and again in the fall covering the last brood cycle and you won't see any cases.


I have had some years I see nothing at all.In fact this year was the first EFB I have seen in years so no need to try to cure what you dont have.Like the backwoods people Wildbranch is talking about that live in the backwoods.Those people that raise their own livestock and have no money for vet visits are the ones who will suffer greatly if they cant get antibiotics to treat what few animals they have.


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## Mrs.Ko (Jan 31, 2013)

Just sent to me from our MO Extension Office, choices- take burning seriously, work with the vets, or allow disease colonies to continue?
"At our Ag Updates, our Livestock Specialists have been discussing the VFD and its implications for livestock producers. Basically, livestock producers will need a VFD to purchase feeds that are medicated with certain pharmaceuticals… especially those containing antibiotics which come under the VFD regulation. That means a veterinarian will have to write a VFD for them to be able to purchase these feeds, and the retailer selling these feeds will have to keep records on the sale, etc.

At the Livingston County Ag Update, one of the attendees asked about bees. He saw that oxytetracycline was on the list. He and his wife have about 20 hives.

Well, apparently a VFD WILL be required for beekeepers, if they use that product. I looked it up and found this:

http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/DevelopmentApprovalProcess/ucm455416.htm "


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