# Losses



## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

Are you asking for migratory operations or just stationary? The bees I'm running were in the almonds. Varroa mites were not the issue. Went from 950 mid last summer to 744 good colonies sent to CA. 500 of them are still alive. Of that 500 50% are excellent, 25% are ok, and 25% need boosting. Troubles were noticed already starting 2 yrs ago when I had samples sent out for nosema spore counts. At that time there were less than 500 colonies. Last summer the nosema spore counts from the poor hives were 5-10 million spores per bee. This spring(March) samples from 15 poor colonies mixed together sent to USDA Lab Beltsville, MD showed no tracheal mite, no varroa mite, but 15.1 million spores per bee of nosema. I suggested to the owner who I run these bees for that they be fed Fumagilin last spring and it wasn't. I said they should be fed fumagilin last fall and they didn't. I told them to feed fumagilin this spring at the end of almond bloom and they didn't. Now I am fumagilin drenching them all. It sucks to do all that hard work making increases for someone to not care and just let them dwindle away because they are to cheap to pay for fumagilin.


----------



## Bens-Bees (Sep 18, 2008)

Every single ferral hive that I knew of in TN last fall (and I knew of 5 of them), died over the winter. The word I've heard from local beekeepers is 50+% winter loss this year... but myself, I lost none.


----------



## peacekeeperapiaries (Jun 23, 2009)

we had the same issue her in FL with the winter, coldest in 21 or so years. I knew of several feral hives going into winter that are now dead, pretty uncommon here. I was hoping to catch some swarms from those ferals to replace my winter losses which is right about 20%. On the up-side we have caught 5 swarms in the past few weeks so thats a start. Sorry to hear about the losses we are experiencing them ourselves. :scratch:


----------



## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

i lost 9 out of 65, lost 7 out of 10 purchased queens from down south, lost two of my own queens.

one friend lost 50 % from 90 hives to 45 hives, 30 of the 45 hives were purchased queens.

the only difference in management styles between my friend and me is I feed fumidil to some of my hives he doesn't and I pulled my honey two weeks earlier than he did and put my mite treatements on. Last years spring was to cold and wet and our spring mitecide did not properly kill mites. will be putting on next week weather permitting.

another friend(numbers approximate) had around 300 hives, has 85 left, he doesn't advertise what he medicates with, but installed 200 packages from down south last year.

last year was the easiest winter that I have seen, lowest temp -14 faren.
and normal snow amounts, but somewhat windier than normal. all of my deadouts and first friend had the same strange symptoms, most had sealled brood, no or few bees left and plenty of honey in most hives, plenty of pollen also in the hives. his hives showed sign's of late swarming with lots of sealled or just unsealed queen cells. 

neither are ordering queens or packages this year and I'm going to show them how to raise there own queens.


----------



## Naturegoods (Mar 12, 2010)

I'm too small to have interesting stats - friend with 260 hives lost 140 = 58% loss. Says he had queen problems late last summer.
I wouldn't want to trash the queen breeders I'm sure they're doing the best they can but they are in business and demand is high. If it comes from a q cell it can be sold and all these packages need a queen and need them now.
Later in the season queens may be better but the demand is overwhelming and customers are having to wait.
I have not been happy with my purchased queens for a couple years now but the hives that I have obtained through cut outs of old feral colonies came through the winter in outstanding form. They are gentle, I intend to split and make plenty of queens from these strains. I don't know about their honey production but living through the winter is a highest priority. 
I have two more cutouts already scheduled this year and the dandilion has just begun. Folks were hoping for a dead out but these girls keep living with no help from anyone. Of couse it helps that their 'hive' has central heating :lpf:


----------



## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

Can you provide the following:
The amount of Fumagillin per dose and the amount of syrup fed in the drench.
How many drenchings?
The application method used for drenching.
Thank you,
Ernie


----------



## dgl1948 (Oct 5, 2005)

BEES4U said:


> Can you provide the following:
> The amount of Fumagillin per dose and the amount of syrup fed in the drench.
> How many drenchings?
> The application method used for drenching.
> ...


Check this link.


http://www.gov.mb.ca/agriculture/crops/honey/bha01s00.html


----------



## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

Nice link.
But, it does not provide the information about a Fumgillin drence.
Ernie


----------



## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

Her's a link that is on the spot:
http://www.scientificbeekeeping.com//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=47&Itemid=63

Q: I want to drench, but it will cost me over a buck a colony just for the Fumagilin-B. Can I cut the dose?

A: Apparently not. Commercial beekeepers are commonly using a large 9.5g bottle dissolved in 5-8 gallons of syrup, drenched at the rate of 1 cup per colony. As always, ask your state apiarist for recommendations.
Ernie


----------



## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

Starting new link for Fumagilin Drench


----------



## Bud Dingler (Feb 8, 2008)

I had 5% losses on over a 1000 hives. We are stationary and I would never play the Colony Co-mingling Disease (CDD) roulette in CA almonds. Its like having sex with no condom while In Las Vegas.

Winter losses causes are all over the map, poor forage in 2009 led to a poor population of winter bees in some regions, nosema and mites always play a role. 

In regions with losses I hear also of really good survival. Loyd Spears posted on BEE L I think that he had good wintering in NY area.


----------



## gregstahlman (Oct 7, 2009)

In late January when we were checking hives before they went to Cali we lost around 75 hives out of 4680 hives. Since the return from the almonds we have maybe picked up another 25 hives. So don't if we are lucky or just that good. i think in the last six years we have not had over a 4% winter loss.


----------



## Michael Johnston (Nov 25, 2007)

I've been talking to some small beekeepers that had fed a lot of fumagillin last fall and they've had very low levels of losses.
In the past, I've had low losses in my hives with young queens. This Spring my losses are much higher; I don't have a final count. Many of the bees that made it through the winter are very strong, though. I did get results back from the NYS Inspection Service this winter from last May's testing that said I had a mix of Nosema apis and Nosema ceranae.
The only hives to which I fed fumagillin were 16 hives with baby nuc frames for raising queens. Two clusters were very strong and didn't get any fumagillin; they both died. On the other hand, I had some very small clusters make it through the winter that had been fed fumagillin.
I think that we're seeing the first wave of a new disease coming through here in Upstate NY. I hope that we can develop some bees with resistance. I'd like to try to feed fumagillin to most of my hives and then leave around 40 good hives unprotected every winter in the hopes of finding survivors.


----------



## CentralPAguy (Feb 8, 2009)

gregstahlman said:


> i think in the last six years we have not had over a 4% winter loss.


Just curious whether you migrate your bees to warmer climates thus removing the winter stress. 4% loss is a great number


----------



## gregstahlman (Oct 7, 2009)

i did forget to mention that we do migrate south to Texas for the winter. We treat for mites once a year in the fall and have never used fumigillin because of test results came back negative for nosema. but even at that, i don't see how a 4% loss out of 4800 hives is a great number. that is almost unheard of.


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Michael Johnston said:


> I think that we're seeing the first wave of a new disease coming through here in Upstate NY. I hope that we can develop some bees with resistance.


What "new disease" would that be? European Fouldbrood? Or something entirely new? Why do you say this? What are the indicaters?


----------



## Michael Johnston (Nov 25, 2007)

What "new disease" would that be? European Fouldbrood? Or something entirely new? Why do you say this? What are the indicaters? 

What I mean is Nosema ceranae. I was tested in late August of 2007 and had a zero spore count for Nosema. I was tested in May of 2009 and had spore counts of 2,000,000 nosema spores per bee. Then this winter I got something back from Ag & Markets saying that my bees had a mix of Nosema apis and Nosema ceranae when they were tested in May.
Even though there isn't going to be any bee inspectors in New York this year, Paul Cappy tells me that we can send our own samples to Beltsville and have them tested for Nosema at no charge.


----------



## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

Michael Johnston said:


> I did get results back from the NYS Inspection Service this winter from last May's testing that said I had a mix of Nosema apis and Nosema ceranae.


I must admit when people have asked me if I sent away bees to be tested and I explain that if I waited for the results of testing I wouldn't have any bees left and that's why I find my own methods for diagnosis should be verified by the two quotes. If I lived in Canada I would definetly do testing, any chance we can send samples to Canada?



chillard willard said:


> I brought the bees in in the morning and by the afternoon he phoned with the good news that there was no nosema in my bees. I asked him what the count was, I was thinking it must be rather small to be considered none at all and he said that the count was zero (A big ol pat on the back for me  )


----------



## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

Michael Johnston said:


> I've been talking to some small beekeepers that had fed a lot of fumagillin last fall and they've had very low levels of losses.
> I'd like to try to feed fumagillin to most of my hives and then leave around 40 good hives unprotected every winter in the hopes of finding survivors.


I did similar this year but the results don't make any sense at this point. How was your golden rod flows? since there are some indications that adding pollen can work as well as fumidil I did some of the following, also note I'm eliminating the purchased queens as they eliminated themselves this winter.

I feed all nucs fumidil and then moved into multiple apiaries.

I feed one apiarie fumidil in the fall. they don't get a good fall flow any year.(all hives lived and are booming)

I put exhisting hives in one apiary/no fumidil with nucs that had fumidil(no fall flow, all hives are booming)

only two of my apiaries had what I would call normal golden rod flows this year, one had fumidil one didn't. (both are excelent, lost one hive, late swarm)

two apiaries that normally have excellent golden rod flow's didn't last year, neither fed fumidil(one excelent, one lost two hives and hives not as good as other yard, and they are only a mile apart)

In comparing to my buddy that doesn't feed fumidil, his survivor hives are doing as well as mine. I have had n.c. for at least 3 years that I know of.
The one thing that impressed me the most last fall we were standing in my buddies largest yard in Aug. and he says look I have one hive flying like they used to years ago, the rest are doing nothing. we went through the hives, all looked fine, did mite counts, nothing too high. Almost all those hives died over winter?? Sure is fun but I would like a couple of years like b/4 mites for a pleasant change.


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Michael Johnston said:


> What "new disease" would that be? European Fouldbrood? Or something entirely new? Why do you say this? What are the indicaters?
> 
> What I mean is Nosema ceranae. I was tested in late August of 2007 and had a zero spore count for Nosema. I was tested in May of 2009 and had spore counts of 2,000,000 nosema spores per bee. Then this winter I got something back from Ag & Markets saying that my bees had a mix of Nosema apis and Nosema ceranae when they were tested in May.
> Even though there isn't going to be any bee inspectors in New York this year, Paul Cappy tells me that we can send our own samples to Beltsville and have them tested for Nosema at no charge.


I had two yards sampled in July. One showed zero nosema and the other showed 2.5 million spores per bee. I never heard whether they were apis or cerana, unless the results came in the last month while I am away from home.

Jerry Hayes, FL State Apiculturalist or Apiarist told me that these two different findings could be because of the time of day that the samples were taken. So the one that was negative is suspect, imo.

No Apiary Inspection in NY? How current is that info?

Allison Skinner, I forget her married name, demonstrated sampling of bees and testing for nosema at last years Empire State Honey Producers Ass. summer picnic. I believe that Ontario, Canada, Apiary Inspectors are all trained in how to do this sampling and testing and they do it in the field. Why can't NY State Inspectors, when we have them, be taught to do this too? It won't tell you if they are apis or cerana, but what's the diff? Really.


----------



## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

So sorry about being a little off topic, however If NY is not doing inspections for 2010 how are the folks who do migratory work going to get their inspection for heading out of state or do we just do this under the radar now?


----------



## Michael Johnston (Nov 25, 2007)

sqkcrk said:


> I had two yards sampled in July. One showed zero nosema and the other showed 2.5 million spores per bee. I never heard whether they were apis or cerana, unless the results came in the last month while I am away from home.
> 
> Jerry Hayes, FL State Apiculturalist or Apiarist told me that these two different findings could be because of the time of day that the samples were taken. So the one that was negative is suspect, imo.
> 
> ...


----------



## peggjam (Mar 4, 2005)

"I have had n.c. for at least 3 years that I know of"

So have I...nothing new here. I had the best winter survial this year of any of the past 3 years. No, I didn't treat last fall with fumigillian...I did treat for n.c. this spring. Every hive that came through the winter is very strong..


----------



## Michael Johnston (Nov 25, 2007)

BMAC said:


> So sorry about being a little off topic, however If NY is not doing inspections for 2010 how are the folks who do migratory work going to get their inspection for heading out of state or do we just do this under the radar now?


I hear that some NY beekeepers are getting their bees inspected in the southern states where they overwinter. I don't go out-of-state so you'll have to ask them.


----------



## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

BMAC said:


> how are the folks who do migratory work going to get their inspection for heading out of state or do we just do this under the radar now?


Just like many other states do...over coffee at the local lunch counter.


----------



## dbest (Aug 9, 2005)

Hive inspections are a joke anyways. Its annoying how they're only looking for something that isn't even a problem. If you can't handle foul brood...just give up beekeeping.


----------



## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

sqkcrk said:


> I have been hearing second and third hand reports of alot of losses. What are you folks hearing.


Mark, any idea of the cause of such high losses? Starvation?

Really no reason to lose such high numbers in northern NY this year. A very easy winter for the bees. Cleansing flights every month of the winter. 

The fall flow was almost non-existant, and heavy feeding was necessary. I noticed, as did other beekeepers in Vermont and Maine that I know....there was a late round of brood raised last fall. Maybe from all the feeding. Also, the colonies started raising brood early and produced large clusters...very conducive to starvation...and swarming. I've already fed nearly 5000 lbs of sugar...made into 2:1. Maple/Willow flow is just about finished, and I'm still finding light colonies. Come on Dandelion!! We need some nectar.

Apples blooming in the Hudson valley.


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

No idea really Mike.

As far as interstate transport of bees is concerned, South Carolina does an inspection before I leave. Last fall I got my "health cert." from NY about a week after I got home from SC. There were a number of years in the 1980s when bees weren't supposed to go to SC from NY, but they went anyway.

I know at least one large NY beekeeper who never got health cert. and went anyway.

Unless federal laws prohibit the movement of honeybees across state lines, can we really be stopped from doing so, legally? How do interstate transportation laws effect bee movement?


----------



## mbholl (Dec 16, 2007)

I found this recent newspaper article searching for news on Colony Collapse:

http://www.vcstar.com/news/2010/apr/16/we-lost-69-percent-of-our-bees-between-september/


----------

