# Bee removal question



## Cantrellc123 (Jan 15, 2013)

The sign at the local industrial park has bees in it that I've been asked to remove. There can be no disassembly of this sign so I'll have to trap out as many bees as possible before it's fully sealed up.

My intention is to place an existing colony very near the sign (12") with hopes the trapped out bees will integrate with the existing colony. This existing colony will be a new split approx one month old with the intention of building up this new split with the trapped out bees.

Should I be prepared for any possible issues with this plan?


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## kentuckyjeff (Jan 26, 2012)

we need more info, but from experience just setting another colony nearby wont work. you might look into trying to using swarm trap. Like what was designed by Cleo Hogan jr. he is a regular on here lives close to mammoth cave ky. research his posts. he will email you how to do it. Good Luck


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## gezellig (Jun 11, 2014)

I wouldn't think placing an existing colony near another colony would do anything, if so, having hives next to each other in an apiary would just be a free for all with colonies joining and integrating all the time. If no disassembly is allowed, there's not much chance of getting the queen and brood, so how about using a bee vacuum to collect as many bees as possible before the sealing up, and newspaper combine them with the split you had in mind.


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## Cantrellc123 (Jan 15, 2013)

My intent was to install a screen cone over the entry/exit on the sign that the bees are using. This way once the bees exit the sign they'd be unable to re enter the sign and then move into the hive I'd set in place once failure to re enter was realized.

I didn't see any way a vacuum would work as its a 4'x 8' sign with about an 8" gap from side to side with a single entry/exit.


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

Pics... we need pics. lol
It would help a great deal in this scenario.


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## Cantrellc123 (Jan 15, 2013)

Sorry but I'll probably not drive 20 miles one way for pics. 

It's a 4x8 sign hanging with the bees entering 4' off the ground into the sign near the LH edge.
Just in vision a piece of plywood hanging and the bees entering thru a hole/crack in the surface of the sign. 
Thanks for the interest and help. Cleo's website was quite helpful.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

Cantrellc123 said:


> Sorry but I'll probably not drive 20 miles one way for pics.
> 
> It's a 4x8 sign hanging with the bees entering 4' off the ground into the sign near the LH edge.
> Just in vision a piece of plywood hanging and the bees entering thru a hole/crack in the surface of the sign.
> Thanks for the interest and help. Cleo's website was quite helpful.


So why cant you disassemble a 4x8 plywood sign? Seems like a ridiculous request. If they want the bees gone, tell them that you have to take the sign apart. How hard could that be?


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## gezellig (Jun 11, 2014)

How about placing a frame of honey in a Nuc box or empty hive box with a bee escape cone in place, in reverse, near the sign as the bees smell the honey and enter to get it, they won't be able to escape the box. That night, take home and combine with your hive you had in mind.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

gezellig said:


> How about placing a frame of honey in a Nuc box or empty hive box with a bee escape cone in place, in reverse, near the sign as the bees smell the honey and enter to get it, they won't be able to escape the box. That night, take home and combine with your hive you had in mind.


That would probably get you a bunch of old bees, but the queen, nurse bees, and all the brood will still be "buzzing away" in the hive.


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## gezellig (Jun 11, 2014)

Yes, it would, I realize that. But if you read his original post, he is not allowed to tear into the sign, and it is going to be sealed up anyway and his original intent is to put those bees with another hove in order to build up its numbers, so therefore mission would be accomplished


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## Cantrellc123 (Jan 15, 2013)

Nabber86 said:


> So why cant you disassemble a 4x8 plywood sign? Seems like a ridiculous request. If they want the bees gone, tell them that you have to take the sign apart. How hard could that be?


Rest assured if it could be taken apart and reassembled even with moderate effort I'd be all over it. There is a stucco type perimeter that matches the post on each side. The cost to redo that stucco alone would buy several nucs I'm sure.


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## JDMoodie (Aug 30, 2014)

Is the goal to save as many bees as you can or to remove all the bees from the sign? I guess the better questions is how long until it is going to be sealed up?

A nuc box with one frame of eggs (if you want to possibly produce a queen in the new colony)/brood placed so that it is very close to the bee door and touching the sign (the bees should be able to walk into the box, not have to fly) and they will march right in. Cone the entrance so they cannot get back into the sign. Given enough time the bees will all leave the sign and reside in the nuc... if it's a large hive you may need one or two "nuc supers" for space. I just did one and I needed a triple tall nuc. For a thorough job you need long enough for the queen to stop laying and decide it's time to leave the hive, otherwise you are just going to get all the field bees out but the eggs/larvae/nurse bees and queen are still inside.

Jeff.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

JDMoodie said:


> otherwise you are just going to get all the field bees out but the eggs/larvae/nurse bees and queen are still inside.


Jeff... I agree the eggs/larve/queen will still be inside, but, if you activate the funnel, you will get some nurse bees, housekeepers, cleaners, etc., as they come out for rest or cleansing flights. Just no way to predict how many and when you will get them. 

A better way to trap is to put your funnel inside the trap, and totally seal the trap to the feral colony, so that all bees must go through the trap to get to the outside. In this case you immediately get guard bees moving to the front of the trap as that is the only entrance/exit. If you add unsealed brood inside your trap you will immediately get nursebees, housekeepers etc, and if the trap is close to the feral brood nest, the queen may very well come out early in the trapping sequence to investigate where those eggs came from. She may even stay in your trap for a few days to lay eggs in the drawn comb you give. If you have the funnel in place, she cannot get back to the feral colony either. So you have her. Even if she doesn't come out early in the trapping sequence, or you don't see her, at some point she will come out. That point normally is when there is not enough bees, or enough honey/ or enough pollen to continue using the brood nest.

I never try to trap with a nuc box. I much prefer a 10 framer so you can insert more frames, (more comb), and hold more bees.

cchoganjr


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## JDMoodie (Aug 30, 2014)

Cleo, I considered exactly what you suggested, seeing as this trap was my first I have not had any experimental stuff yet I went for simpler to start. In hindsight a larger box would definitely have been better, I was just building boxes to add to the nuc and when I hit three and needed one more, I just built an entire hive to put there instead.

Anyway, I am curious how the OP is going to approach this and hear how it works out.

Jeff.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

Jeff.. Have you received my 12 page instructions on trapping bees? It has a lot of information in it that you might consider. If not, e-mail me at [email protected] and i will send to you. It has photos of actual traps in progress.

cchoganjr


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## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

I can understand the business park no wanting their sign dismantled. Have they considered that when the bees move out, leaving honey and dead bees and brood, the ants will move in in great force.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

dsegrest said:


> the ants will move in in great force.


Not necessarily. If the trapout is completed, and the entrance is left open for a few days, and if there are other feral bees in the area, the bees will rob the comb of any honey, the brood will not last long in hot weather, and a little soapy water sprayed on the entrance and around any openings will deter ants and other bees from entering. Then seal the entrances and the job is complete.

In an occupied structure, there will be some odor, but, in signs, water tanks, old buildings, church bell towers, tree, etc., leaving the comb is NOT a problem. At least not in the instances where I have done cutouts.

cchoganjr


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