# Medium frames



## GRIMBEE (Apr 3, 2007)

Should medium frames be crossed wired? Probably a dumb question.


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## riverrat (Jun 3, 2006)

If you plan on extracting I would cross wire.


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## GRIMBEE (Apr 3, 2007)

OK cross wire is needed in honey supers but not hive bodies containing brood, pollen, honey, etc.


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## riverrat (Jun 3, 2006)

I wire brood foundation in my deeps to keep the foundation from warping or sagging. If you can keep the foundation straight without wires then there shouldnt be any need to cross wire a medium used for brood


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## GRIMBEE (Apr 3, 2007)

I am going with all medium hive bodies and screened bottomboards this year as I have read the many pros of an all med hive.


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## honeyman46408 (Feb 14, 2003)

GRIMBEE said:


> Should medium frames be crossed wired? Probably a dumb question.


What kind if foundation?


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## GRIMBEE (Apr 3, 2007)

5 5/8 vertically wired foundation from brushy mountain bee farm


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Should medium frames be crossed wired?

They will work fine either way. The cross wires will help keep the foundation from curving back from the vertical wires. But it will work either with or without horizontal wires and with or without vertical wires. The biggest advantage, from my point of view, for the wires is holding the foundation from buckling until they get it drawn.


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

I use those little "clothespins" on the sides to help keep the foundation straight before the girls draw it out. I extracted last year (radial extractor) without any problems and none of the frames were crosswired. they all started out as vertically wired foundation.


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## Brent Bean (Jun 30, 2005)

Use plastic foundation and forget about the wire.


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## honeyman46408 (Feb 14, 2003)

Brent Bean said:


> Use plastic foundation and forget about the wire.


AGREE!!!


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## riverrat (Jun 3, 2006)

*friends dont let friend use plastic*



Brent Bean said:


> Use plastic foundation and forget about the wire.


Now you done it. the great debate will begin again.

HM we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one We all know the girls like natural wax best


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## honeyman46408 (Feb 14, 2003)

riverrat said:


> Now you done it. the great debate will begin again.
> 
> HM we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one We all know the girls like natural wax best


I don`t care what they like  I don`t givem a choice just like @ home


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

I resisted the temptation of bringing up plastic in this discussion, but now I see I'm not alone.
After many years of plastic foundation in wooden frames, I have only one use for frames of wax foundation: Culling out and tossing on the burn pile.
When I look back, all of that time spent wiring and embedding, etc; what a waste of time!
And after all of that effort you get one shot to have it drawn correctly.
If it gets damaged, it's toast.
HEY! Thats just my view. Do what makes you happy.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

I agree with HarryVanderpool; plastic is nice. I like plastic in wood best, because the bees like to brace or burr comb, one-piece plastic frames together, despite the bee space. With plastic, if the bees form a less than perfect comb, as they sometimes do, just scrape it off (saving the beeswax), then let them try again. And if the wax moths get into them, just scrape it off, give it back to the bees and they'll fix it right back up again.


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## JBJ (Jan 27, 2005)

With ya on that one Harry. Plastic seems to be able to take much more abuse.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

Despite my dislike for one-piece plastic foundation and frame, I purchased many of the Mann Lake PF120 frames (I prefer molded plastic foundation in wood frames). PF120 frames work very well, the bees still have a tendency to fasten them together like other one-piece plastic frames. Using a bandsaw I have cut the frames away from the foundation, widened the grooves on wooden top and bottom bars, then inserted the plastic foundation core. Despite the extra work and expense, this certainly makes a durable plastic foundation and when placed inside wooden frames, eliminates the problems with plastic frames.


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## GRIMBEE (Apr 3, 2007)

*New question*

Can a package of bee's be started on starter strips or should one use whole sheets of wired foundation? Another dumb question.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Can a package of bee's be started on starter strips or should one use whole sheets of wired foundation?

I have started many on nothing but starter strips. Yes they can be. I prefer one drawn comb down the middle or one sheet of foundation down the middle as it is better insurance to get them off to a straight start.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfoundationless.htm


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

Bee's don't need our help at all to get started! They can do everything on their own if you let them. But yes, you can start a package on strips or on foundation...whatever you prefer. It's really just a matter of how you want to work you bee's.


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## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

Joseph,

were you able to cut up a PF-120 (which I believe is the designation for the medium frame) and have enough material to put into a medium wooden frame?
I'll have to go look at that, I have some PF-120's and wasn't too impressed with them, maybe this would be a good use for them

Dave


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

I use all medium depth supers and almost all are now 8-frame. I use wooden frames with grooved top and bottom bars. Once I cut the core (foundation) out of the PF120. I found that I needed to widen the grooves by about 1/16th of an inch to fit the piece cut from the PF120's, otherwise the fit was nearly perfect in all dimensions.


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## Grant (Jun 12, 2004)

I cross wire every frame with wax foundation, even the vertically, crimp-wired foundation. I like straight combs. 

My best tip for using strips is to place them between two existing frames, and I'll pre-wire the frame before inserting the strip. Bees build around it pretty good.

I also find myself using more and more plastic, both sheets to insert in wood and the all-in-one frame/foundation merely for the ease and convenience. I've finally got my bees talked into accepting it.

Grant
Jackson, MO http://www.MakingPlasticFramesWork.homestead.com


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## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

Joseph,

putting the foundation out of a PF-120 into a wooden medium frame worked great
I thinned the bottom of it with a dremel tool so it would fit the groove, my frames were already assembled so I couldn't widen the groove
that gives me a use for about 80 of the things, I don't care much for the all plastic frames but the plastic SC foundation is nice

Dave


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## Everett (Feb 25, 2007)

*Hot, humid weather*

I have had crimp wire foundation warp in hot weather in absense of the added horizontal wires. Even though I live in the New England, the weather here is fickle. It can get to 90F in the early spring; even if just for a day. If the hives are new (and even if they are more established) they may not have enough bees to fan the hive to keep it cool thus the foundation warps making ugly brood comb when it is drawn. I'd wire just to hedge my bets...


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## GRIMBEE (Apr 3, 2007)

Can one use fishing line instead of wire


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Can one use fishing line instead of wire

Some people do.


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## Flyman (Jun 11, 2007)

If you use fishing line, use florocarbon. It has almost zero stretch (as many fisherman will attest). Regular fishing line has quite a bit of stretch. Start at about 20 lb test and I think it should work.


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## Brent Bean (Jun 30, 2005)

I put my wax capping’s to work by melting it in a double boiler and brushing it on my plastic foundation, they seem to draw it out faster and it saves my money by buying the un-wax foundation,


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## GRIMBEE (Apr 3, 2007)

I think I'm gonna use both to find out which I and the bees like better. I am buying 2 nucs from Bleta12 here on beesource. His bees are drawing out wood frames with plasticell foundation


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