# Has anyone had (II) done by one of the labs custom?



## Chrissy Shaw (Nov 21, 2006)

I am curious if any of you have had any experience in sending drones and virgin queens to an Instrumental Insemination commercial lab? Compared to the costs, should i invest in my own lab or trust the labs work and which way is a better deal?

Chrissy


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## Keith Benson (Feb 17, 2003)

It depends on how much II will factor into your management scheme. If it will only be an occasional thing it is really not worth it. But if you are talking about doing with with some frequency then it could save money and be worthwhile. In addition to the cost of the equipment you will have to practice to become and stay proficient. Some folks will need more practice than others. Of course many beekeepers just like to "do it themselves" regardless of the actual cost. . .


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## Chrissy Shaw (Nov 21, 2006)

*The open market*

The open market has not worked for anyone thus far using II for commercial production, save in the case of breeder stock. I simply wish to use it eventually here to fix breeder lines and i have yet to determine exactly how i will expand my base to follow some of the breeding schemes i hope to use. That said, the use of it for me is to assure genetics in specific breeder queen. I am just curious as to how the costs to ship and have the work done compares to buying equipment and going through the process of becoming a II efficient person. My take is that it is not worth it, so i want to get an idea who has done II outsourcing and how it has worked for them, who does the best job for the cost. I don't think this is an area where one should save big bucks.

Chrissy


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## adamf (Jan 28, 2006)

Keith Benson said:


> It depends on how much II will factor into your management scheme. If it will only be an occasional thing it is really not worth it. But if you are talking about doing with with some frequency then it could save money and be worthwhile. In addition to the cost of the equipment you will have to practice to become and stay proficient. Some folks will need more practice than others. Of course many beekeepers just like to "do it themselves" regardless of the actual cost. . .


Doing II requires time, equipment and healthy drones/queens. Assuming one already knows how to II, to get the best results, drones would be sent first (and doing this is an art in itself--drones don't travel well at all). Then virgins--we like to use 6-10 day-old virgins. Post II the inseminated queens need a few days in small nucs. 

There's lots of pre and post II work that occurs outside the actual II. If a beekeeper or beebreeder was within driving distance of an II source, good results would be easier to acheive, for less.

We have sent semen and then received virgins from the cross later in the season. That worked well. Or sending sending virgins and semen. However if one is collecting semen one is halfway to II.

Tom Glenn (Glenn Apiaries) charges $100.00 per inseminated queen. That's a very good price. 

Adam


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## Chrissy Shaw (Nov 21, 2006)

*Thank you Adam*

So then i need to master collection of drone semen. I would ask further, if you have the Taber book, he writes a bit in cold storage regarding drone semen, i had ought to be set up for storage and shipment and i need beware of the infection risk and take great care in that regard as well, correct?

I have to build a set up for that operation specifically and i want an idea as to what will be needed. Do you happen to know if there is any down sides to spray painting emerging drones for later identification? I would like for them to free fly prior to collection.

Thank you for answering my questions and supply a most reasonable priced lab to use. That is too far a drive and i don't know what the restricions would be on flying drones down, but i will aim to collect and ask them their own requirements as well.

Chrissy


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## Panhandle Bee man (Oct 22, 2003)

*Custom II*

Joe Latshaw at Ohio Queen breeders http://www.latshawapiaries.com/custom_insemination.htm
does it for $75 per queen. You provide the semen, or drones and virgin Queen.

He also sells the equipment.


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## Chrissy Shaw (Nov 21, 2006)

*Thank you for the information Mr. Panhandle*

I will check this out.

Sincerely, 
Chrissy


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## adamf (Jan 28, 2006)

CSShaw said:


> So then i need to master collection of drone semen. I would ask further, if you have the Taber book, he writes a bit in cold storage regarding drone semen, i had ought to be set up for storage and shipment and i need beware of the infection risk and take great care in that regard as well, correct?
> 
> I have to build a set up for that operation specifically and i want an idea as to what will be needed. Do you happen to know if there is any down sides to spray painting emerging drones for later identification? I would like for them to free fly prior to collection.
> Chrissy


Collecting semen is an art! Not only does one need the correct age drones, but one needs to have the mechanism to collect and store the semen. Most II practitioners use a _Harbo Syringe_ that allows semen collection directly into capillary tubes which are great for storage, mailing etc. (Do an internet serach on "Harbo Syringe" for images.) We use an extremely accurate microliter syringe attached to the Harbo Syringe to pull the semen up from the drone and then to subsequently inject semen during insemination. Here are some pictures of semen collection/Harbo Syringe:
http://www.ibiblio.org/bees/adamf/ii_pics.html

As of today, Honeybee semen keeps for about 2 weeks, after which it deteriorates. However some have used 9-12 month old semen and had success. Semen storage and the pysiology of the queen's spermatheca is still a wide-open research area. 

Semen is kept in capillary tubes at room temperature, in closed container. We use 50 Microliter tubes mostly, but sometimes the smaller diameters work better for special conditions. 

The spray-painted drone method you cite would be fine--just practice to make sure you aren't covering the drones with too much paint.

Good Luck!

Adam


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## beekuk (Dec 31, 2008)

Hi, just reading the part about using spray paint for the drones,has anyone any recomendations on which type of spray paint to use?


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## HVH (Feb 20, 2008)

beekuk said:


> Hi, just reading the part about using spray paint for the drones,has anyone any recomendations on which type of spray paint to use?


I am not familiar with the spray paint approach. Sue Cobey places a queen excluder in front of the hive and grabs drones coming back from a flight so I have always assumed that many of these drones are old enough for II. So what is the paint for?


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## beekuk (Dec 31, 2008)

So instead of using a marking pen to mark different drones from differnt colonys,or different strains of drone emerging in the same colony,spray paint as suggested earlier in this thread sounds a lot faster.then the drones are allowed to fly free,and collected from excluder,but you also know the different strains,for genetic reasons,and so you know you have the drones you have raised for II and there age.so just wandering what kind,acrylic?


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## JSL (Sep 22, 2007)

Two Things:

First, If you visit the following page:

http://latshawapiaries.com/latshaw_micro.htm

I added a link about half way down the page to view a short 90 sec video of the flexible insemination technique. It is just a very simple video...

Second, as for marking drones using spray paint: You can mark a lot of drones in a short period of time. The draw back is some will receive more paint than desired and not survive to maturity due to painted wings. From my little experience with this method, it does not seem to matter what type of paint is used. A little trick that helps is to mess up the spray nozzle so that you actually get more of a spattering than a fine mist. You will just have to play around with it.

Another method is to use a marking pen, not as fast as spray paint, but it is amazing how fast you get with a pen. I like this method the best as it gives me the highest recovery rate.

Be advised, drones drift heavily. You will find your marked drones all over the place, so mark lots of extras.

Hope this helps.


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## JSL (Sep 22, 2007)

Sorry, I got carried away and just realized it was not Chrissy who asked about the link to the flexible insemination link.

Joe


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## beekuk (Dec 31, 2008)

Thank you Joe, sounds like the marker pen is the best way to go. Regarding the heavy drifting of drones,can the drones perhaps be confined in a colony above a queen exluder,in supers,with a separate entrance at the rear,and allowed to fly late in the afternoons,and then would only have a short time flying and be more likely to return to the same colony,before being blocked in again. More work,but would it be worth doing or not a good idea.


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## JSL (Sep 22, 2007)

Yes, you could confine them, but it is a lot more work to let them fly every afternoon. If you do not need really large number, marking them and just returning them to a colony works well. I generally have a 25% recovery rate by the time they are mature. You can also cage the drones until mature, but they are often full of feces, which just slows things down a little when collecting semen.


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## beekuk (Dec 31, 2008)

Does caging the drones until mature have any effect on the quantity and quality of the semen,does it make a difference that they have not flown,apart from they must be fitter if they have.I can imagine that you would perhaps lose just as many this way due to feces contamination,as the 75% you lose with allowing them to fly free,or not?
pete.


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## JSL (Sep 22, 2007)

Yes, you just have to decide where you want your losses. In my experience, caging drones until maturity results in slightly less semen producing, I am assuming this is due to nutrition. There is also an increase in feces at the time of semen collection, which makes collecting the drones more of a challenge. My preference is to mark the drones and take my losses on those that I do not recover. The 25% or so that I do recover are healthy and productive, assuming they are mature enough.


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## beekuk (Dec 31, 2008)

Thank you for this advice Joe. I will be marking and collecting flying drones,and as you state they are going to be much fitter having flown and proved they have some stamina. next thing on shopping list, multi coloured marking pens of some sort.


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