# Fondant Fail



## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

RAK,
I tried this Fondant:
4 cups boiling water.
1/4 cup Karo syrup
Juice of 1/2 lemon
2 four pound bags of dry granulated sugar.

Procedure,
1. Boil the water
2. Add the lemon juice.
3. Add the first and second bags of sugar.
4. Stir until the sugar dissolves.
5. Boil the mixture until it reaches 238 degrees F.
6. Quench the mixture until it cools down to 180 degrees F. (some references state 200 degrees F.) I used dough hooks to mix the syrup.
7. Mixing with a wisk helps to cool down the mix and it incorporates air. I did not have time to waste wisking air into the mix.
I made a nice clear supersaturated syrup.
Later, when it cooled down to about 90 degrees F, I added more granulated sugar because I could see it was not going to set.
I left a pan in a cake pan just to see if it would granulate with small crystals. If it remains as a very thick syrup I will warm it up and add more dry sugar.
The syrup that cooled in the pot is similar to a soft ball stage of candy making.
I might make some candy boards later this week.


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## RAK (May 2, 2010)

Thanks for the reply... I ended up adding sugar also. So its a Gum with sugar and tastes great.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

I would skip the lemon juice. Commercially sold fondant is made with sugar, water, and corn syrup.

I use *one ounce of corn syrup per pound of sugar* when making a "baker's fondant"

I started with a 5:1 sugar/water mixture.

Other photos:http://s275.photobucket.com/albums/jj305/js06807/Fondant/


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## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

Once it goes gummy up, I think it's throw out time! 

Add all the sugar before it comes to a boil. Stir in about a cup at a time.

Found you need to stir almost continuosly all the time you are boiling, as it will gum and burn/carmalize becasue mixture gets too hot next bottom steel.

We have an old aluminum pressure cooking pot that works much better for all candies including Christmas candy that transfer heat slower. Steel pots transfer heat too well!

Use a candy thermometer and STIR and go up to Firm Ball Stage which is 248F. Need to keep stirring for a while after coming off the element as there is lots of heat contained in the base of the pot.

Need to experiment a bit as thermometers are not all precise and temp required varies a bit with altitude(different atmospheric pressure). If you get into Christmas candy making, you check the boiling temp of water and adjust temps by difference between 212F and boiling temp for your altitude you record.

After it cools to 200F add lemon juice and beat with electric hand mixer, whisk, paint/ drywall mud mixture on an electric drill. Think if you add the lemon juice at the beginning, you boil off some of the flavor and
??perhaps juice.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

mgolden,

Do you have a photo?

Does your fondant resemble what is sold commercially in 50# blocks?


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

I found it much easier to buy commercially produced Fondant from Hillcrest Foods. Comes in 50 lb blocks for something like $35. I cut it into slab with a square shovel, wrap in waxed paper and place directly on top of the cluster.


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## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

Will try a pic. I just put parchment paper in the bottom of square cake pan and when the fondant gets stiff, pour it in and flatten it out. Mine was 8 inch square pan and cut it into four pieces. Need to mark your cut lines before it fully sets if you want it to break into four perfect squares.

Went out to my hive and removed a block that the bees have been working on.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

Fondant doesn't "set".


It doesn't break... and looks like the photo I posted.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

Re: lemon juice.
The lemon juice is added to invert the sucrose. It needs to be mixed into the boiling water so that it can work on the sucrose as you add it to the solution.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

Great photos.
How long does it take for the egg beater to change the consistency towards the white color of Fondant?
Thanks,


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## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

You may be right, as I'm no chemist. 

The lemon juice is added as in canning just to make the goods acidic. Being acidic eliminates molding. Think of pickles, tomatoes and jams.

Honey is acidic to a degree and hence one uses baking soda when baking. So adding an acid to the sugar makes sense as it mimics honey and hopefully reduces molding.

But when it should be added to the mixture????????????


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

BEES4U said:


> Great photos.
> How long does it take for the egg beater to change the consistency towards the white color of Fondant?
> Thanks,


Too long...
It requires a powerful tool to whip or need the sugar mass as it cools.

It takes a lot of time, electricity or gas, and a lot of cleaning up. 

I did a lot of batches last year to find the best technique for me... and after perfecting my procedure, I drove 15 miles and bought two 50# blocks of the stuff.

I doubt if I'll ever make it again...

Joe


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## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

Picture of Sugar Candy to go with previous posts

Only took 5-10 minutes with mix master to beat.

I had some left over 2:1 syrup and wanted to use it up so tried the candy/fondant. As it heated up and before it boiled I added some further sugar to thicken it to reduce the boil time.

Can boil it on medium temps as long as you stir it almost continuously. Understand carmelizing or burning will give bees diarha so need to STIR. Add a Tbsp of lemon juice per liter/quart. As per the perforations, you can see that the bees quite like it. Didn't add clear corn syrup as its expensive and makes a smoother fondant but not necessary.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

Jams,
The acid in strawberries will invert sucrose and make a nice sweet jam


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

Here's some data from the web,
Inverting sugar
Inverted sugar syrup can be easily made by adding roughly one gram of citric acid or ascorbic acid per kilogram of sugar. Cream of tartar (one gram per kilogram) or fresh lemon juice (10 millilitres per kilogram) may also be used.
The mixture is boiled for 20 minutes, and will convert enough of the sucrose to effectively prevent crystallization, without giving a noticeably sour taste. Invert sugar syrup may also be produced without the use of acids or enzymes by thermal means alone: two parts granulated sucrose and one part water simmered for five to seven minutes will convert a modest portion to invert sugar.
All inverted sugar syrups are created from hydrolysing sucrose to glucose (dextrose) and fructose by heating a sucrose solution, then relying on time alone, with the catalytic properties of an acid or enzymes used to speed the reaction. Commercially prepared acid catalysed solutions are neutralised when the desired level of inversion is reached.
All constituent sugars (sucrose, glucose and fructose) support fermentation, so invert sugar solutions may be fermented as readily as sucrose solutions.


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## tsk (Nov 26, 2010)

Assuming this is feasible to ship, any idea the ingredients in their Fondant? My mom uses fondants for baking and their ingredient list looked pretty bad.



Michael Palmer said:


> I found it much easier to buy commercially produced Fondant from Hillcrest Foods. Comes in 50 lb blocks for something like $35. I cut it into slab with a square shovel, wrap in waxed paper and place directly on top of the cluster.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Corn syrup and sugar. I'm talking about raw fondant, not the pre-mixed stuff with flavors and colors and ??


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

Fondant is just fudge without any flavorings or fats. You MUST boil it to the correct temperature, and if you use a thermometer and have a failure, you should check your thermometer -- most candy thermometers these days have a paper or cardboard scale and it can slip on the glass tube!

Soft ball (fudge) is probably too soft for use in a beehive, it's better to get it to at least hard ball stage or soft crack. The bees aren't going to take it up unless it's syrup anyway, either by adding water themselves or syrup formed by condensation on the surface of the candy, so the harder the better.

2 quarts of water and 20 lbs of sugar will take a while to boil down to a low enough water content. however, if you are adding protien, it will absorb some water and the lower temp can cause massive crystallization, making a mess.

If your attempted fondant stays a gummy liquid, you probably added too much citric acid and now have invert syrup, which is less likely to "set" than pure sucrose. It will not stay put, so you can't use it in the hive, but you MAY be able to get it to set if you add some baker's sugar -- NOT confectioner's sugar, which contains cornstarch. You can grind or powder some pure sucrose and add that, too, but likely it will be a very coarse grained soggy mess rather than a nice hard fondant or candy.

If it's thin enough to re-heat without scorching, get it nice and hot, add a cup or two of sugar, and boil until it gets to 250 F and see if some will set by dropping a bit into cold water. If it does, pour into a mold of some sort, or make a candy board.

Peter


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

psfred said:


> Fondant is just fudge without any flavorings or fats






*Fondant* is *sugar* and *corn syrup*.... without anything else (including lemon juice).


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

The lemon juice is added to the boiling water so that it can invert the sucrose.
1.0 boil water.
2. add lemon juice.
3. add dry granulated sugar, sucrose.


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## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

Does the lemon juice/cream of tartar/ascorbic acid also move the pH of the fondant/candy closer to honey which is somewhat acidic??? So bees consume it better and are healthier afterwards, less dysentry???


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

This is one of the very important ingredients for making Fondant,
http://www.kitchenkrafts.com/glucose-1-/p/IN0500/


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

Re:
Lemon juice making the fondant acidic.
Probably not. 
On a weight to weight ratio, the lemon juice is going to be very low.
For the fun of it, I will test the pH of the next batch.


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## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

BEES4U, any insights on acidity for better bee health and also should the acidity delay mold with the sugar syrup????

I'm pretty sure most of the purpose of lemon juice in canning tomatoes and some jams is to make the goods more acidic and stop growth of botulism.

Checked the jam recipes in a box of Certo crystals and blueberry and peach jam calls for lemon juice. All others do not require lemon juice.

Had previously checked my wife's fondant recipe and there was no lemon juice. Need to try some lemon juice next time. My understanding also is that the corn syrup also aids in preventing crystalizing.


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

adding lemon juice to canning is to change the ph to stop mold growth and botulism. It is very important.
As for fondant, after reading all your posts, I might just go to the local bakery...maybe


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

honeyshack said:


> snip
> 
> after reading all your posts, I might just go to the local bakery...maybe



Excellent choice!



Some may be interested in the following: http://www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/PENotes/FondantSpecification.htm

The TSK and MP Johansson book "Some Important Operations in Bee Management" is full of interesting things. One of which is feeding dry sugar over newspaper... 25 years before the "MountainCamp Method" was ever mentioned.


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## libhart (Apr 22, 2010)

BeeCurious said:


> *Fondant* is *sugar* and *corn syrup*.... without anything else (including lemon juice).


...but psfred is quite correct in his fudge analogy. Both fudge and fondant have a microcrystaline structure that gives them their smooth consistency. If the crystals don't form, you get the gummy mess described by the OP. If they form too early and are too big, you basically get chunky rock candy. Glucose will help prevent this premature crystalization, so that's why corn syrup helps (it's very high in glucose). As stated before, you can also use an acid to split some of the sucrose molecules. Sucrose is fructose and glucose. Split them and you've got the same thing the corn syrup added, free glucose floating around helping to prevent big crystals.

Besfond is another brand of commercial fondant that's good. sugar, corn syrup and water only. No flavors/colors/etc.


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