# Deep Nuc to Medium Hive box?



## Wingnut (Dec 8, 2016)

Newbee question: Im finding it impossible to find nucs that come in medium frames/boxes. Im wanting to run only Medium boxes so what is a good way to get the new nucs transfered over or conveted over to medium? I know it wont be fast or easy but hoping to bot have to keep using different sizes of equipment.

Fergy


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## texanbelchers (Aug 4, 2014)

To take advantage of the nuc, you want to use the frames until they don't have brood. If it comes with an undrawn deep frame(s), you'll want to replace it with medium frame(s) ASAP. When you are ready to move it to a full size hive, set up 2 mediums high and treat them as a single box. That is, you will only put frames in the top box, but the height will be needed for the deep frames. Over time you'll put medium frames in the center of the brood nest moving the deep frames toward the outside. When you find a deep frame on the outside that only has honey and/or pollen in it, it can be removed without loosing brood. By that time you'll have a grasp on what is going on.  There may be some extra comb drawn below the frames, but that is easy to cut off and discard or fixed into a frame.

Welcome to the forum.


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## Swampsquash (Oct 25, 2014)

I personally prefer at least one deep box for the brood nest. I find they do better on deep brood frames in my trial and error. I end up running a deep and a medium as my brood nest, but I'm in FL and don't need alot of stored honey to overwinter...But do as you wish, they are YOUR bees!

Something that has worked for me(in my trial and error times) going deep to medium. Stack two medium boxes and place the five deeps from the nuc in the middle add medium frames in the other 5 spots. Feed 1:1 syrup to "convince" the bees to draw the medium frames and basically be patient....Once they have multiple frames of brood in the medium frames(and the weather is warm enough) you can add another medium box and move the brood up to encourage them to draw out more frames....Meanwhile in the bottom, slowly move the deep frames to the outsides of the box. Once you have more lower medium brood frames you can start removing the deeps and replacing them with new medium frames....You will get comb on the bottom of all the frames in the lower box. Unfort its just gonna happen, I can't see any other method to encourage them to move. Once all the deeps are out...cut off the extra comb the bees surely will build on the bottoms of the frames and remove the extra box. 

It may be a pain and it may be messy but it will probably work...In the future when you do splits they will already be in medium boxes.

Good Luck


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## stan.vick (Dec 19, 2010)

Or just get the nuc supplier to sell you five more deep frames, stack two mediums for the brood chamber and leave them that way. The bees will add to the bottoms of the frames, giving you a large enough brood chamber, that if managed right you may not need additional brood space. Only down side for some may be not being able to rotate the brood chamber up, which I wouldn't advise doing anyway.


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## becsbeehive (Oct 29, 2016)

Swampsquash said:


> I personally prefer at least one deep box for the brood nest. I find they do better on deep brood frames in my trial and error. I end up running a deep and a medium as my brood nest, but I'm in FL and don't need alot of stored honey to overwinter...But do as you wish, they are YOUR bees!
> 
> Something that has worked for me(in my trial and error times) going deep to medium. Stack two medium boxes and place the five deeps from the nuc in the middle add medium frames in the other 5 spots. Feed 1:1 syrup to "convince" the bees to draw the medium frames and basically be patient....Once they have multiple frames of brood in the medium frames(and the weather is warm enough) you can add another medium box and move the brood up to encourage them to draw out more frames....Meanwhile in the bottom, slowly move the deep frames to the outsides of the box. Once you have more lower medium brood frames you can start removing the deeps and replacing them with new medium frames....You will get comb on the bottom of all the frames in the lower box. Unfort its just gonna happen, I can't see any other method to encourage them to move. Once all the deeps are out...cut off the extra comb the bees surely will build on the bottoms of the frames and remove the extra box.
> 
> ...


Seconded!


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## tech.35058 (Jul 29, 2013)

Use swampsquashes method. Plan to have bees in this deep box the first season, next winter when the bees move up to the top box, which will be the third in your stack, remove the deep frames. Keep your original nucs box to use as a dump box when working the hive. Or, leave a couple of the deep frames in your hive until they get brooded up next spring, pull these two frames of bees and brood back to the nucs, when the nucs matures, sell it. Good plan, any way. ... CE


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## Wingnut (Dec 8, 2016)

thanks all great tips didnt even think about using 2 mediums as a deep!


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## dr4ngas (Mar 19, 2014)

Another option could be to put a medium box on top. when the queen starts to lay eggs up in the mediums, find the queen and put her on a medium frame and insert a queen excluder between the two boxes. When the deep is empty of brood you can remove the deep box and frames. If keeping the deep you can use as a swarm box.


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## DerTiefster (Oct 27, 2016)

I'd say that dr4ngas's suggestion is the quickest way to do what you want. I didn't think of it, myself, because I'm not familiar with queen excluders and their use. But that would be fast. I'd have suggested a different path, which you may yet find attractive.

Set up a double medium with the deeps hung mostly to one side of the top, perhaps slots 3-7 or 2-6. Fill all medium slots not interfering with the deeps (that would be 10 medium frames, five in each medium super over/under). Manage things as if you had all deeps but don't bother rotating the deeps to the outside. You'd have to pull all of the deeps and put them into a 5-frame holding box when you want to do certain things to the bottom medium box frames. Don't lose the queen in so doing. When the mediums are suitably filled with brood, do a no-looking-back move of the deeps and queen back to the 5-frame, rearranging the mediums and letting the bees re-queen themselves. Stand back 2 feet and notice how very strongly the deep nuc resembles the one that arrived a few weeks earlier. Find someone who wants to buy a nice, lightly used but "proven performer" nuc. Or use it yourself with the benefit of the experience you've gained.

Michael


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## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

I would not take the deeps away from them in the first season, the bees need all the comb they have for raising brood if you want them to grow into a full size strong colony. By excluding the queen from the brood comb, you will be severly limiting how much room she has to lay until they have a bunch of frames drawn out, which may take a while. without that space for raising brood, expect the colony to dwindle the same way you expect a package to dwindle.

Reality is, if you dont want them to use the comb that the nuc came on, you are better off then just starting with a package.


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

dr4ngas said:


> Another option could be to put a medium box on top. when the queen starts to lay eggs up in the mediums, find the queen and put her on a medium frame and insert a queen excluder between the two boxes. When the deep is empty of brood you can remove the deep box and frames. If keeping the deep you can use as a swarm box.


+1. But first, I would try a little harder to find medium nucs in the Dallas area or ask someone to make a nuc with medium frames.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

You can always buy packages... There are medium nucs out there though if you can find them.


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## mike17l (Jun 22, 2012)

I am in South Texas, but will have some medium nucs available for pick up, might be worth your while. Check out my facebook page, I recently listed them on there.


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## WaverlyBowks (Jun 28, 2016)

Would it work to us something like the BrushyMountain Intro Board, placing the deep nuc on top of a medium box? Would the bees move down and draw comb on in the medium box? Once the queen is located and laying in the medium box, could you place a queen excluder between the two until all the brood has emerged from the nuc and then remove the nuc from the hive?


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## RBRamsey (Mar 1, 2015)

Wingnut said:


> Newbee question: Im finding it impossible to find nucs that come in medium frames/boxes. Im wanting to run only Medium boxes so what is a good way to get the new nucs transfered over or conveted over to medium? I know it wont be fast or easy but hoping to bot have to keep using different sizes of equipment.
> 
> Fergy


Did you, by chance ask, if they would make the nuc with mediums? I offer mediums on request.

Personally, I not found of plastic foundation, but I will make a nuc with plastic if you want. The customer is always right.


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## stan.vick (Dec 19, 2010)

My bees in this location, prep the bottom box by filling it with pollen and honey to raise the winter bees on, they pretty much leave it until the fall when they move down to get the winter brood going. Don't know what your bees would do.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

There are a lot of options. I tend to play it by ear. The most straightforward of these options is a cutout. 

Next would be to put all but five frames of mediums in the bottom box, put a second box on and let the deeps "dangle" (as was already used to describe it) into the bottom box where you left out the frames. Then fill that box out. later you can pull the deeps out when they don't have any brood in them. If you put them towards the outside they are more likely to not have brood.

You could put a five frame nuc box on top of the medium box with a board to cover the left over gap and wait for them to move down.

You can build a 3" tall, five frame wide shim and put it on one side and the deeps will hang into the medium at the right height. Cover the gap with a board again.

You can use a deep box and fill the rest out with mediums and either cut a piece of closed cell styrofoam to fill the gap or just let them build comb on down and cut it off later and tie it into medium frames.

You can cut out two frames of brood, tie them into medium frames, and put them above an excluder with the queen and wait for the rest of the brood to emerge (putting it in by one of the above "dangle" or other methods) and then pull the deeps.

But all in all, I just don't recommend a nuc if the combs are not what you want, e.g. if they are deeps and you want mediums; or they are large cell and you want small cell; or they are on Langstroth equipment and you want a DE or a Warre' or a top bar hive. Get a package instead.


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## Dabbler (Aug 9, 2015)

Fergy,
I was in the same position last year and asked the same question. 
MB gave me almost the same advice (MB - Kudos for consistency! )

I went with a 3 inch shim on the Medium box and let the bees draw comb beneath the 5 medium frames. I am planning on removing the 5 deep frames when things warm up and I can get into the hive.
Some unintended pluses: 
A) The burr comb broke off 2 of the medium frames twice during last season (rough handling by a newbie). This gave me the opportunity to experiment rubber banding comb into a medium frame. One more technique under my belt.
B) Having a 3 inch shim around for feeding and such will no doubt be handy in the future.

Best of luck 
Spence


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## PAHunter62 (Jan 26, 2011)

Michael Bush said:


> You can build a 3" tall, five frame wide shim and put it on one side and the deeps will hang into the medium at the right height. Cover the gap with a board again.





Dabbler said:


> B) Having a 3 inch shim around for feeding and such will no doubt be handy in the future.


I run all mediums too, have gone this route anytime I need to work with deep frames. Works great. 

PAHunter62


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## Jim_in_PA (May 17, 2016)

We use primarily mediums and a NUC that will be arriving in a little while will be on deep frames from the particular Beek it's coming from. I have 3" shims to raise a medium 5-frame NUC box up to support the deep frames initially rather than stacking two mediums to accomodate. Shims are cheap and easy to make and you don't have that extra 2 5/8" height that stacking two mediums would bring come into play.


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