# Where to Find Sub Ingrediants



## swarm_trapper (Jun 19, 2003)

So I'm still not happy with the sub I'm feeding and am looking at mixing up a simple pollen recipe that is working for other guys, But I cant find Soyflour or cheaper dried eggs (cheapest I found was 14$ a lbs!!!) SO if any know where to get these and could help that would be great! 

Second question Instead of using dried eggs could one use real egg? I would have to re figure the liquid measurements. There are many chicken farmers around here and the the price of eggs has gone way down so I think i could get a pallet of eggs lol sounds funny but maybe...?

Thirdly Not sure if Keith is ok with this, if Not Just say Keith. But I would like to get a pallet of Nutra bee and I know Keith doesn't mess with small orders like that but I thought maybe there was someone near him that buys small quantity's That would for a little extra money buy some and ship to me?? Just a thought



Regards Nick


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

I have priced around a bit and cant find components as cheap as I can buy the ready made. Those kind of components get stale quick; might be false economy to buy large amounts to get the price break unless you can use it or sell it quick enough to keep it fresh.


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## Richard Cryberg (May 24, 2013)

If you buy components how are you going to grind them to a particle size below 20 microns to match the particle size of pollen? This is way below the particle size you get from a hammer mill.


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## swarm_trapper (Jun 19, 2003)

The soy flour and dried egg are small enough that they don't have to be ground


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## Richard Cryberg (May 24, 2013)

swarm_trapper said:


> The soy flour and dried egg are small enough that they don't have to be ground


So, you are saying both have been air milled? Where are you going to buy these things already air milled?


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Richard Cryberg said:


> If you buy components how are you going to grind them to a particle size below 20 microns to match the particle size of pollen? This is way below the particle size you get from a hammer mill.


That is true, a hammer mill won't do the job, but there are many size reduction mills on the market that will, we are very happy with our mill and the fine material it kicks out.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

Keith Jarrett said:


> That is true, a hammer mill won't do the job, but there are many size reduction mills on the market that will, we are very happy with our mill and the fine material it kicks out.


Yeah, we use to have some small laboratory mills that were pretty decent, our hammer mill was pretty good too with the smaller screens in place, good enough for recombinant protein extraction from the rice flour it made anyways. Even those smaller units though were very pricey at the time, but heck, that was over 10 years ago now so maybe they're more affordable but I would doubt it.


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## Sadler91 (Nov 6, 2011)

t:


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Richard Cryberg said:


> particle size below 20 microns to match the particle size of pollen? .


I believe most plant pollens are around 35 micron / 400 mesh.


PS, I'll get back on topic Colby


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## rv10flyer (Feb 25, 2015)

Go to your local farm feed supply. Look for soybean and corn gluten meal. Then buy a $600 flour mill to process.


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## Bkwoodsbees (Feb 8, 2014)

I see you are from Fl, do have a pollen dearth there? I am in SC and we only have maybe 2 month dearth. I use dry pollen substitute in early January and February. I feed outside the hive because of shb. Robert


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

You can get a pallet of eggs but that would be too time
consuming to crack each egg to get the yolk out. Besides, where
are you going to put the egg white? Throwing them away is too costly.
I wonder what would eat the egg white?


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

You can get a pallet of eggs but that would be too time
consuming to crack each egg to get the yolk out. Besides, where
are you going to put the egg white? Throwing them away is too costly.
I wonder what would eat the egg white?


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## hex0rz (Jan 14, 2014)

My dog! :lpf:


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Bkwoodsbees said:


> I am in SC and we only have maybe 2 month dearth.


Two month dearth, that's a pretty long dearth my friend.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

Richard Cryberg said:


> If you buy components how are you going to grind them to a particle size below 20 microns to match the particle size of pollen? This is way below the particle size you get from a hammer mill.


Why would you need to match the particle size of pollen? As I see it you need a particle size small enough the bees can eat it. They would not necessarily be the same.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Daniel Y said:


> As I see it you need a particle size small enough the bees can eat it.


Daniel, particle size small enough to eat is only part of the equation for the bees, the OTHER more important part is getting the optimal particle size to get maximum extraction of nutrients from your substitute. Most subs on the market today still have 20-30% passing threw with no extraction.


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## hex0rz (Jan 14, 2014)

Whew, 20 microns is a small size!


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## Sadler91 (Nov 6, 2011)

Bkwoodsbees said:


> I see you are from Fl, do have a pollen dearth there? I am in SC and we only have maybe 2 month dearth. I use dry pollen substitute in early January and February. I feed outside the hive because of shb. Robert


Our summers are pretty rough here. We have a good 1-2 month dearth that can really set back a fresh split. So there are two options, find anther place to ship bees for a honey flow or stay here are focus on nutrition to combat that dearth. We make our main honey flow in May and split all our bees in the summertime. The problem for us is hive beetles. We cant slap on a five pound slab of sub that we buy from the "big box stores". The beetles love it. Keith's sub is the only sub I have ever used that beetles don't eat/reproduce in.

Basically I need to find an economical way to get Keith's to Florida. That or Keith can divulge on his secret about keeping beetles out of his Sub


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

During the summer dearth the bees will eat any sub you
put in and not just limited to Keith's. Have you try bee pro or mega bee
cut into 1" cube? Give them a little at a time so that the beetles cannot
use them. And make stronger new nucs to keep the beetles out of the subs.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Sadler91 said:


> Keith's sub is the only sub I have ever used that beetles don't eat/reproduce in.


 Ok you wore me down  Lets see if we can get you a pallet or so without breaking the bank on shipping. Me thinks over on FB page I saw Sprauges ten wheeler being shipped to FL, Rodger just lives up the road from me so thought we could have put a few pallets on, kill two birds with one stone .


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

beepro said:


> and not just limited to Keith's. .


Ouch...... lol


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## Sadler91 (Nov 6, 2011)

beepro said:


> During the summer dearth the bees will eat any sub you
> put in and not just limited to Keith's. Have you try bee pro or mega bee
> cut into 1" cube? Give them a little at a time so that the beetles cannot
> use them. And make stronger new nucs to keep the beetles out of the subs.


I have fed every sub out there. I want something that I can blend myself to keep cost down and keep my labor busy. Also, I am intrigued that Keith has figured out how to keep beetles off his sub. I can feed 1-2 pounds no problem in the summer. I am exploring my options on how to get those 2-5 slabs in like y'all do on the west coast! I am tired off making 3 trips to the bees just to throw the sub in that y'all can put on at once.


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## Sadler91 (Nov 6, 2011)

Keith Jarrett said:


> Ok you wore me down  Lets see if we can get you a pallet or so without breaking the bank on shipping. Me thinks over on FB page I saw Sprauges ten wheeler being shipped to FL, Rodger just lives up the road from me so thought we could have put a few pallets on, kill two birds with one stone .


I saw that. It was too late!


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## Sadler91 (Nov 6, 2011)

I have the perfect solution Keith! You can make a dry mix blend of your sub :thumbsup:


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## liljake83 (Jul 2, 2013)

I second that on the dry blend Keith and maybe in your spare time clear out your private messages I tried to send you one the other day and was denied because your inbox was fullinch:


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Don't worry, Keith. No matter what I said here your subs still sell.
I have an idea to open up a small branch just to fulfill the smaller
orders from around the world. 
Ian already figured out a way to make his own blend as well as others.
I will be the next person to try my own sub experiment. Already got the
brewer's yeast here.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Wowe , what I'm doing is a long way from Keith's product, my focus is more on supplement than a substitute


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Sadler91 said:


> You can make a dry mix blend of your sub :thumbsup:


That would work "if" most, all, ingredients were in dry form.


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## RAK (May 2, 2010)

Keith Jarrett said:


> That would work "if" most, all, ingredients were in dry form.


:thumbsup: Cant agree any more.


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

Keith Jarrett said:


> That would work "if" most, all, ingredients were in dry form.


You could just send us the ingredients and instructions on mixing.


Just when I write off your Sub as "sour grapes" I get a confirmed report that beetles don't jump in it.


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