# I can't believe the cost of nucs this year!



## roberto487 (Sep 22, 2012)

I just saw an ad on craiglist-North Jersey from a man selling a 3 frames nuc for $225.00. ****, not even a complete nuc. My gripe is the cost of bees this year will discourage new people from taking up this HOBBY. Package bees prices are creeping up too. Just venting.


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## BeeMoose (Oct 19, 2013)

The market drives the price. If there are people willing to pay whatever they are asking, they will continue to charge more for less. It's the American way.

This is only my second year, but I have seen a steep incline in the prices as well. It'll do nothing but go up.

I have told all of my friends that this is not a poor man's hobby.


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## Miketx (May 13, 2014)

Swarms and cut outs are free and sometimes pay!!


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

roberto487 said:


> My gripe is the cost of bees this year will discourage new people from taking up this HOBBY. Just venting.


And that's a bad thing? What are you doing about it?


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

Roberto, what do you think is a fair price for a 3 frame nuc? how about a 5 frame nuc? And what about a 5 frame overwintered nuc? We've been having this discussion in our bee club as to what is a "fair" price. And if we are trying to get more members to make up nucs and not just the couple of beekeepers that supply the 80% of them each year, should the individual member be able to set the price.

I belong to 2 different clubs. One is setting the price. One is letting the maker of the nuc set the price. It will be interesting to see how things shake out this year. Many beeks in our area lost a lot of their hives. Probably due to the cold weather after things started to get kicking in January. All of my hives and nucs came through just fine, and I did sell one of my overwintered nucs at a premium. The splits I do later on will be at a lower price, but I'm certainly not giving them away either.


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## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

I see people selling all sorts of things for all sorts of ridicules prices. I have watched one guy advertise a 5 gallon glass jug for 4 years, He call it Vintage. Sometimes Rare, A few times Valuable. 4 Years! He still has it for sale. Why? I call it Overpriced! Just because someone advertises something, does not mean they sell it at that price. But then again, There is a sucker born every day.


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## stan.vick (Dec 19, 2010)

One thing that is driving nuc prices up is the sharing of information on forums like this, new beeks are being told by beeks like me that for a hobbyist, a package from a distant place is usually not a bargain at any price, and a local nuc that cost about half again as much is a better bargain, granted some are over-priced, but they will adjust that price when they don't sell, or we'll get used to the price when they do sell. JMO


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

Bee keeping is not an inexpensive hobby. If so inclined one ca n lower costs by making equipment and catching swarms. Bees don't care how fancy their homes are...bee hobbiests often do care.

It is a relatively cheap hobby even at $225 a nuc.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

I wouldn't pay that for a nuc or charge that much for a nuc but that's just me. What's the point of this post, you don't have to buy something that's overpriced, and I'm betting if everyone started charging that much for nuc's, inventory wouldn't move very fast.


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## jfmcree (Mar 10, 2014)

Nucs in my area near Philadelphia sell out very quickly, especially the over-wintered ones. I think they were around $150 for 4 frames if memory serves.

Market dynamics is the primary driver, as others pointed out. Someone who sells out fast at $150 is encouraged to raise the price. You can probably get a cheaper price if you are willing to expand your number of suppliers and drive a bit further. Sometimes the single clud supplier adds a mark-up for his/her coordination and driving time that you could recoup if you did the driving yourself. In that situation, you have to decide what your time is worth.

Jim.


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## suburbanrancher (Aug 5, 2011)

A local beekeeper who sells honey, packages and nucs was planning to sell overwintered nucs for $200. I believe they were 5 frame but I may be wrong. 
I make splits to prevent swarming and have sold the nucs (to buddies) for $140 for 5 frames. And there was no foundation, all of the frames were full. Next year I'll charge at least $150, if not more, but I think 5 frames is fair--I'm not a fan of the 4 frames. Doesn't seem right to me.


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## gone2seed (Sep 18, 2011)

roberto487 said:


> I just saw an ad on craiglist-North Jersey from a man selling a 3 frames nuc for $225.00. ****, not even a complete nuc. My gripe is the cost of bees this year will discourage new people from taking up this HOBBY. Package bees prices are creeping up too. Just venting.


I need to move to North Jersey if that is the going price. I am one of, if not, the highest in my area at $125 for a full 5 frame. I have heard $80.00 quoted by one area beekeeper. I don't know how many frames were in those but assume 3.


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## Pete O (Jul 13, 2013)

The person selling his nuc for $225 might just as well ask $8000. He can ask anything but that doesn't mean he will sell any.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

I know someone around here is cardboard nuc, $85.


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

Well, if people in your area can actually get $225 for nucs, then OTHER people in your area should be seriously considering making more nucs.

One of my friends is considering updating the genetics of his apiary with a $200 instrumentally inseminated queen. If he were to make and sell nucs with daughters of that queen, I'd expect he would ask top dollar. And it might be worth it. For a couple of brood frames yanked from almond bees with a $20 queen from Somewhere Else stuck in a week earlier, maybe not. I paid $140 each for a pair of those last year (2 frames of brood, 2 of stores in a cardboard box).

Nucs are not all that hard to make, and I intend to "make" (acknowledging that the bees do the important work) a couple to overwinter from now on, to make up any losses. If more people did this, and come spring found themselves with surplus nucs, maybe the price would not be so dear.


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## Banemorth (Feb 28, 2015)

Supply and demand. Basic economics. If people pay $225 than $225 isn't too much money.


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## Denniston (Mar 19, 2015)

As an outsider trying to make his way into the hobby of beekeeping, I can say the cost of bees has been the one thing that has held me up. I have been able to rummage around my garage and find some pieces of plywood to make up a couple nucs, and picked up some pieces of value wood at the big box store to make some deeps. 

I've asked around at with a few members of the local beekeeping association, but haven't heard back, but I think it would be cool if every beekeeping association would have a program to help new beekeepers get their first colony of bees. I envision a program where the new beek would have to pay for or provide their hive and personal equipment, and they would get a split. The conditions on the program would be that in the next year or so they would in turn provide a split for another new beek, also maybe they would be given a mentor, and have to attend some of the classes the association holds. 

Maybe this type of program exists, but I haven't see it yet. I'm going to be attended our local association meeting for the first time this week, so hopefully I find out a lot more there.


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

Denniston said:


> I've asked around at with a few members of the local beekeeping association, but haven't heard back, but I think it would be cool if every beekeeping association would have a program to help new beekeepers get their first colony of bees. I envision a program where the new beek would have to pay for or provide their hive and personal equipment, and they would get a split. The conditions on the program would be that in the next year or so they would in turn provide a split for another new beek, also maybe they would be given a mentor, and have to attend some of the classes the association holds.
> 
> Maybe this type of program exists, but I haven't see it yet. I'm going to be attended our local association meeting for the first time this week, so hopefully I find out a lot more there.


That's what we're trying to do in my area of Northern Virginia. Our goal is to get as many club members as possible raising nucs, primarily to get students of our bee school started. So far we're managing to raise about half the need, I think. The newbees are expected to pay for their nucs, but some people are deciding to just give them the nucs instead of asking for money. We were given an excellent nuc last year. The club strongly believes in the value of locally-raised bees, and starting from nucs, rather than ordering package bees from Down South.


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

Playing Devil's Advocate here - if new beekeepers can get cheap, or free, nucs to mess around with then what's to keep them from not valuing the bees, and doing what needs to be done, on time - on the bees' schedules, not theirs. We all know that bees don't just take care of themselves, and that's news to a fair number of people who think casually it would be nice to "save the bees." 

If the investment/ replacement cost is steep perhaps people will take better care of their bees? They are, after all living creatures, not toys that can be tossed aside if you lose interest.

All of my bees were from swarms, so I didn't pay a nickel to acquire them. But I try to treat them as if I could never afford to buy any more.

An excellent local beekeeper (and nuc seller) told me last weekend that he could sell overwintered nucs, from known feral sources for $225 a pop, with no limit on demand even at that price. But that he had reservations about doing so, because he wasn't all that sure that the cost wasn't driven mostly by the cachet of so-called "survivor bees" rather than actual liklihood of surviving when compared to good-quality "commercial" nucs.

And I think the big difference in the price of nucs is driven by local climate. In FL and CA you can make up nucs any day you choose, all year. Here in the frozen north, the season is short and intense and the climate hard on overwintered bees.

Enj.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

>> Re: I can't believe the cost of nucs this year!


I am amused to see this current ad in the Beesource _For Sale_ forum ... 



> 5 frame Nucs for sale in South Dakota. $120 a piece. 605-214-5364
> 
> http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?310017-South-Dakota-Nucs-120ea


:lookout:


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## Beregondo (Jun 21, 2011)

The sale price of something sold -- regardless of what it is -- is not determined by the seller, but by the buyer.

All the seller can do is offer an item at a particular price.
The one who decides whether or not he sells it at that price is the fellow with the money in his pocket.

If the fellow with the money in his pocket pays the price that the item is offered at then it was worth at least as much as the money he pays for the item...at least it is to the buyer.

And to the selleglr, it is worth as much as the person willing to paying the most for it is willing to pay.

All the seller can do is determine the price an item is offered for.

It is the buyers who determines whether it is overpriced by refusing the offer.

True overpricing hurts no one but the seller, who will not find a buyer if his offer is at too high a price.


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## GarfieldBeek (Jan 12, 2015)

I'm kind of interested in Sports cars. I think it would be neat if there was a sports car club that did that. I'd kind of like a new Ferrari for free. Or maybe a thoroughbred horse etc. etc.


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## suburbanrancher (Aug 5, 2011)

I like the idea of club members making nucs and offering them for sale. As long as the club member is someone I would want to buy bees from.
I was gifted my first hive of bees and as a "pay it forward" measure, gifted a friend of mine HER first hive of bees from my own stock. 
That said, I would not make a split and give it to a new beekeeper for free every year. I work pretty hard to care for my bees and ensure their survival, I would expect compensation for a nuc that I made.


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## kaizen (Mar 20, 2015)

I've got to say as an expectant 2 nuc father that built his bodies out of glued up scrap, made tops and bases out of new lumber, bought the rest including suit and smoker etc......that I drastically underestimated the price of this hobby. I've got to be easily over 700 bucks so far AND that's not counting the hours building and painting them or assembling frames. My nucs were 150 and another 25 if I want to keep the boxes. As I planned this and began learning last june I would have had plenty of respect for my bees if they cost 50 bucks. Seeing how experienced keepers are losing 1/2 or 1/3 of their hives routinely I'm now making swarm traps to get some more just in case. and yeah if I overwinter them and they look great i'll be selling them for as much as I can to recoup some of this start up costs.


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## kingd (Oct 31, 2013)

I see nucs going from $125 to $225 around here all the time And they can be anywhere from 3 frame med to 5 frames deeps packed.

All depends on quality and how fast you want to sell.


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## tommyt (Aug 7, 2010)

gone2seed said:


> I need to move to North Jersey if that is the going price. I am one of, if not, the highest in my area at $125 for a full 5 frame. I have heard $80.00 quoted by one area beekeeper. I don't know how many frames were in those but assume 3.


 Someone selling $80 Nuc is hurting all the Keepers in your area 
He should be told about it 
At that price I would think they maybe half dead 

Your price IMHO is a bit low 
I think $140 is about the going avg. here in Tampabay 
LOW ballers hurt everyone, 
I hold my price and if it means sitting on Honey oh well

There is a guy over the backside of Tampa who pollinates 
$20 lower per hive than going rate,he tells people he always 
Has his bees working 
He is not bright enough to realize everyone else's bees are working too.
He and people like him are just wrong, for the entire area.IMO 
Your a farmer selling your service and you sell @ market price.
You don't DRIVE the market down


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## gone2seed (Sep 18, 2011)

tommyt said:


> Someone selling $80 Nuc is hurting all the Keepers in your area
> He should be told about it
> At that price I would think they maybe half dead
> 
> ...


I guess I am one of those who are not too bright because I see it in an entirely different way. If someone decides to sell his bees for $1.00 per 2 deep hive they are his bees and it is his business. You have absolutely no right to set someone elses price. You may not like it but live with it.
Now, your comment about the guy pollinating for $20.00 less is absurb because in the same sentence you say that everyone's bees are working. In that case, what possible difference does it make?


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## GarfieldBeek (Jan 12, 2015)

This may be a little off topic sorry.

I'm not defending myself because I don't sell or ship bees. I am located "down south"

I keep seeing posts that talk about the evils of ordering bees from the south. A couple of questions.

I made myself quite a few nucs last year with purchased Minnesota VSH queens. If I had sold them to someone in the north would they have been southern bees that you guys seem so afraid of or northern bees?

Secondly, Why would it be so bad to order bees from "down south" where we can build up much earlier in the year, pop in a local queen a little later and get a huge head start?

I'm thinking maybe I should offer a service where you ship your mated queen down and I ship packages of your own stock back to you next spring.


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## dudelt (Mar 18, 2013)

tommyt said:


> Someone selling $80 Nuc is hurting all the Keepers in your area
> He should be told about it
> At that price I would think they maybe half dead
> 
> ...


I am sorry to disagree with you but low balling is a standard business practice world wide. We may not like it, but it happens all the time. Amazon did not get huge by selling at the market price. They lowballed everyone and now almost own the book selling business in America. Back it the good old days Standard Oil lowballed everyone and monopolized the oil and gas industry. The government had to break them up. Unfortunately, the guy with the lowest prices will probably sell out way before you do. I doubt he is in the game for the money, he probably wants to break even with his hobby and maybe make a few bucks in the process. Perhaps, he believes the current price of nucs is too high and the market is overpriced. Most likely, he is a complete fool for selling at such a low price. We can only guess at his motivations. The guy I got my first two nucs from charged me nothing! Before getting them from him, I had never met him in person. I thank him every day for his generosity.


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## BadBeeKeeper (Jan 24, 2015)

tommyt said:


> Someone selling $80 Nuc is hurting all the Keepers in your area
> He should be told about it
> At that price I would think they maybe half dead
> 
> ...


It's called "competition" and that's the way the free market is supposed to work. If he can make the amount of money he wants to make at the price he is offering, and people are happy with the product/service, that's -his- business. If you're sitting on product and not making money because you don't want to compete, c'est la vie, it's your choice and -your- business.

If the other guy is cutting corners and enough people are dissatisfied with what he is selling, eventually he may go out of business. Otherwise, everyone else will need to adapt and compete, or risk going out of business. That's the name of the game.


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## thehackleguy (Jul 29, 2014)

I bought 2 @ 125.00, overwintered nucs. When the guy called to say they were ready he said he also had quite a few extra single 10 deep hives for sale @ $150.00. I guess it just depends on your area and how the bees faired the winter.


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## ToeOfDog (Sep 25, 2013)

All microeconomics (price theory) is local and depends on local conditions. What a nuc is worth in Fla is not the same as in New England. You have to admire the efficiency of the free market system to determine the market price for an item. This is a case of a limited supply being met with a semi inelastic demand curve. The price escalates to meet the increased demand til equilibrium. The result will be the nuc growers will start making above normal profits causing more nuc growers to enter the market increasing supply. The increased supply will eventually drive price down.

Didn't y'all take economics and learn what the US economy is based on? Free market, capitalism is the best thing that ever happened to the middle class.

Guess my major.


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## JConnolly (Feb 21, 2015)

WBVC said:


> Bee keeping is not an inexpensive hobby.



Seems to be the way of most of my hobbies. 

Take woodworking. Another hobby with many thousands invested in equipment. But at least the woodworking hobby helps lower the beekeeping hobby expenses. Not by much, but when one hobby supports the other it is a win in my book.

I've got thousands invested in rock climbing gear, a hobby that has wound down as I've gotten older, especially over the last few years. I had this crazy idea that it would be fun to bolt a hive on a cliff somewhere in the back country, but that will never realistically happen as I no longer have the agility to maintain such a crazy thing.


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## tommyt (Aug 7, 2010)

You say


> It's called "competition"


So Beef is selling on the hoof for $1.65 a pound market
Pork is at a all time high @ .99 lb 


You free market and competition folks 
Go sell your Cattle for $1.00 lb and hogs for .49 

I'll be happy to get Market $$


Please keep it mind 
The above numbers are random not today's actual Market


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## Haraga (Sep 12, 2011)

1.65$ beef? Where is that at?


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## tommyt (Aug 7, 2010)

Haraga said:


> 1.65$ beef? Where is that at?


I wish I knew 
Back to regular programming 

READ THE LAST LINE


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

I guess I don't get it. The price of bees is one arrived at between two bee keepers. Sometimes it's more of a sellers market and sometimes it's more of a buyers market but the point is it's a free market.


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## thehackleguy (Jul 29, 2014)

tommyt said:


> You say
> 
> So Beef is selling on the hoof for $1.65 a pound market
> Pork is at a all time high @ .99 lb
> ...


I guess I don't get it, if market price is $1.65 lb then that is what "free market and competition folks" will be selling their product at. No one is going to give discounts for no reason. The "market" price is the price set by "free market and competition"........right??


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Buyers complain about price when they see it as too high. Sellers when it seems too low. Everybody needs to be able to walk away from a deal happy. Either that they both got a good deal or that they both didn't get taken.

Deal with it.


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## Beregondo (Jun 21, 2011)

I've sold stuff a fair bit in my life, at times professionally, and usually sold more than most others in whatever company I was selling for.

In order to sell steadily at a good price, a rule of thumb that served well was that if at least 20% of my prospects didn't object to my price, it was too low.

I never, ever had stale inventory sitting around unsold, either.

Whether Someone complains my price is too high, or that it is too low, that's not their business to mind.


Let them set up heir own prices, and not try to set mine.
If they mind that their own business, we each will be either happy or offered an educational lesson by life.

And both of those outcomes are good.


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## kingd (Oct 31, 2013)

I always seem to sell too low,I want people to get a good deal and I know, it is a disorder of mine.
My brother has the disorder also,He has a little stand in front of his house that he puts vegetables for free,much to the dismay of the other sellers.
Weird thing is that people leave money all the time for him.


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

roberto487 said:


> I just saw an ad on craiglist-North Jersey from a man selling a 3 frames nuc for $225.00. ****, not even a complete nuc. My gripe is the cost of bees this year will discourage new people from taking up this HOBBY. Package bees prices are creeping up too. Just venting.


A great way to save money is simply to NOT buy those nucs. Not sure what you're venting about. Production costs rise, landed costs rise, etc. If a producer of packages or nucs can't make a living producing that product, we won't have bees to buy. A free market takes care of that and you're a participant. Businesses that don't participate and instead monopolize tend to get spanked. Remember Microsoft lost some big cases because they made it so that you didn't have a choice. Here, you do.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

More anecdotal evidence that if one buys something on Craigslist yer gonna get reamed.


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

Well, I have jump in on this one. If low-balling, or bid shopping, as it's known in the construction industry is outlawed, us construction workers will be able to price ourselves out of the market the way the auto workers did.:ws:


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I can't believe the cost of fuel these days.


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