# Killing AFB spore



## icarusfx84 (Sep 9, 2007)

Hey all, 

I've been running around the net looking for actual information on AFB. I'm trying to find out what temp the spores actually die at. I keep finding info that they are resistant to very high temperatures, but being a carbon based life form, there has to be a threshold where the spores die. Does anyone know these actually numbers? ie XX degrees Celsius or Fahrenheit for X hours?


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## Aspera (Aug 1, 2005)

141 degrees C for 20 minutes under something like 15 psi of steam heat. Dry heat/atmospheric pressure will not be effective unless higher temps/longer times are used. Beware, 141 C is about the flash point of beeswax.

You may want to search the archives for previous discussions on the use of lye, bleach, ethylene oxide, etc.


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## icarusfx84 (Sep 9, 2007)

Hey there, are you sure about those numbers 141 degrees celcius. I've read up on spores and found that even rare "Extreme Thermophile" spores can tolerate up to 105 degrees, and they only exist in volcanic regions of the planet like yellowstone or hawaii. Also the from what I know the flash point of beeswax is 250 degrees Celcius. I know that the melting point of wax is 140 Fahrenheit.

Do you know where I can find the information you have?


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## TwT (Aug 5, 2004)

the best way to take care of AFB spores is fire, burn all that has been infected, just my 2 pennies worth


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## icarusfx84 (Sep 9, 2007)

I see the fire argument as well as the scorching inside of the hive box argument. However, I'm considering converting to plastic frames seeings how they're landed at 2 dollars in some places and wood + wax foundations are almost the same price. But I can't exactly burn them, so I'm trying to figure out a lazymans approach to disinfection. We have a solar heater which gets hot enough to make the frames look like they've been in a toaster. So I'm trying to figure it it'll be hot enough to disinfect the hives. 

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Also, as a side note. I just started in this business, but my family has been doing it for over 300 years and my uncle who is now 74 and I will be inheriting all the equipment tells me of the "good ol days" when the inspector would drive by every spring and test the hives for us and if they found any disease he had a Ethylene-Oxide fumigator built right into his truck and he would setup and disinfect any equipment you had. (for free by the way - paid for by the govt). Then they stopped that and you had to take your hives to a depot to have them disinfected (also for free) and they stopped that. No you can't even get an inspector to show up at your farm unless you book an appointment, and if they find anything they just tell you to kill the hive and burn everything.

And that was all done for free, when there was no income tax! All the media and papers are on a kick talking about how all the bees are getting wiped off the face of the planet. It's high time that people talk to their Ministers, congressman and senators to reinstate a state sponsored fumigation program for spore related diseases. that's my 2 cents


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

icarusfx84 said:


> It's high time that people talk to their Ministers, congressman and senators to reinstate a state sponsored fumigation program for spore related diseases. that's my 2 cents


I commend you... that is a noble challenge. However, a very futile one in the lower 48 states I'm afraid. Here we have seen continued budget cuts and it is getting increasingly more difficult just to fund our basic local inspection services, let alone the type of program you are suggesting. 

I'm all for it, but do not see anything like that happening in the near future... unless of course the price of produce doubles due to lack of pollination services. Maybe then someone will listen.


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## dcross (Jan 20, 2003)

icarusfx84 said:


> We have a solar heater which gets hot enough to make the frames look like they've been in a toaster. So I'm trying to figure it it'll be hot enough to disinfect the hives.



No, it isn't.


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## CSbees (Aug 7, 2007)

I have used sodium hydroxide solution mixed 1lb.:10 gallons of water. Otherwise known as lye, this solution produces a chemical boil which kills the spores.


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## icarusfx84 (Sep 9, 2007)

CSbees said:


> I have used sodium hydroxide solution mixed 1lb.:10 gallons of water. Otherwise known as lye, this solution produces a chemical boil which kills the spores.


Do you heat the water or just use at room temperature? Also what do you do with the waste water?


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## Erik T (May 22, 2007)

If you mess up with the lye, you could end up mamed or dead. 
It can burn you the bone instantly. Lye is nothing to fool around with if you don't know what you're doing.

Always wear full rubber aprons, gloves, and a full face shield. Make sure there is plenty of fresh air, outdoors, as even the fumes can damage you.

Lye and water react exothemically, e.g. produces it's own heat. Always use cool/cold water. Add lye to water not water to lye otherwise it'll reach out and maul you. Make sure the container it's in can deal with extreme heat and not be eaten by the lye.

I woudn't bother using lye to clean contaminated equipment. It's just begging for trouble. Far safer to burn it.


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## icarusfx84 (Sep 9, 2007)

Still looking for the official answer to the original question. Does anyone know for sure what temp kills the AFB spores? Thanks


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## Bob Russell (Sep 9, 2003)

*Killing AFB Spore*

I sent a private message a couple of days ago with info,did you receive it?

Just to share part of this with the forum. Temperature and time are the crital factors to kill the spores on surfaces free of wax and propolis,160 degrees celsius for a minimum of 10 minutes to kill all spores.It may not be commonly known,but it takes a lot of spores to infect a hive.
Bob
Approved AFB DECA trainer
New Zealand.


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## Aspera (Aug 1, 2005)

icarusfx84 said:


> Hey there, are you sure about those numbers 141 degrees celcius. I've read up on spores and found that even rare "Extreme Thermophile" spores can tolerate up to 105 degrees, and they only exist in volcanic regions of the planet like yellowstone or hawaii. Also the from what I know the flash point of beeswax is 250 degrees Celcius. I know that the melting point of wax is 140 Fahrenheit.
> 
> Do you know where I can find the information you have?


The temperature/times/pressure relationships are published in numerous microbiology, surgery and laboratory manuals and the original literature probably goes back before the turn of the 20th century. The flashpoint figure is from memory, and may be wrong, but I looked it up when autoclaving some bee diet (CRC Manual, beeswax). 250 C is about 482 F. This seems high but is within reason.


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## Aspera (Aug 1, 2005)

icarusfx84 said:


> Do you heat the water or just use at room temperature? Also what do you do with the waste water?


The waste water can be very carefully cooled, diluted with water and then neutralized with a dilute solution of weak HCl or diluted vingar.


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