# Roxul insulation inside hive ??



## Tigger19687 (Dec 27, 2014)

Anyone ever use it for inside the top cover ? It is suppose to dry out if it gets wet.

I have burlap and foam insulation (more like styrofoam) now but I think I'm going to get shavings and use the Roxul I have hanging around. 
Weather looks like it is finally getting to normal after abnormally high temps the past 2 months. 40's this week so hoping to get them fully buttoned up for New England Winter


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## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

I know a beekeeper who uses regular fiberglass insulation above his inner cover. He is a carpenter and has a four sided, interlocking at the corners "cabinet" that he installs around each hive. Plywood painted black on the outside and batt insulation on the inside. The structure is maybe a foot taller than top of hive. This provides space to put batt insulation. Above some seven inches of batt insulation are screened side vents in the plywood wall, that provides exit for moisture that migrates up through the batts.

Access to the batts is mouse proof. There is an outer cover for the top.

He cuts a round hole in the insulation batts. The round piece of insulation can be removed and a jar of syrup installed over a screen in the inner cover.

He has some 75 hives. 

He is also trying to winter queens in mating NUCs in a four way configuration in his insulated "cabinets". He is hoping to have queens to use for NUCs to sell.


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## Tigger19687 (Dec 27, 2014)

Regular fiberglass insulation gets wet and soaked and will slunk down. Which is why I was thinking Roxul/rockwool type


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## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

One needs good ventilation above the insulation to prevent it from getting soggy in the first place. The fellow I referred to has two one inch screened holes in each side of the outside "cabinet". The screened holes are above the insulation and totally unrestricted air flow. I think it would be difficult to design an outer cover with enough airflow above batt insulation in the outer cover. I suppose an option is a vapor barrier on the under side to prevent the moisture from ever getting into the insulation in the first place, is an option.

Further, I think that the Roxul insulation is more dense than the batt insulation and would get soggy easier if no vapor barrier is applied.

Blue or pink styrofoam is usually chosen for insulating outer covers as it is light and will not absorb moisture.


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## William Bagwell (Sep 4, 2019)

If you already have scraps of rockwool, build a wax dipping tank. Supposed to be ideal for the out side since it has higher heat resistance than fiberglass. Not built mine yet (waiting on the second stimulus check) but will likely have enough rockwool left over to experiment with. 

Think it is the glue in fiberglass that burns? Rockwool must be different so makes sense that it might be more water resistant as well.


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## Tigger19687 (Dec 27, 2014)

I had watched a bunch of videos on the differences between them years ago for when I build a new house.
I had a old roll of fiberglass that I cut up, put in trash bags and slid under the hives for added insulation.
I have a full unopened bag of Roxul that I didn't use for it's intended purpose. It's way easier to cut and won't squish so thought it would be good in this application.


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## Live Oak (Oct 11, 2008)

Tigger19687 said:


> Anyone ever use it for inside the top cover ? It is suppose to dry out if it gets wet.
> 
> I have burlap and foam insulation (more like styrofoam) now but I think I'm going to get shavings and use the Roxul I have hanging around.
> Weather looks like it is finally getting to normal after abnormally high temps the past 2 months. 40's this week so hoping to get them fully buttoned up for New England Winter


I am working on this very thing. I have ordered samples of various types of insulation from Rock Wool. I am thinking the Comfort Batt in R-30 may be a great over the inner cover insulation but I am also looking at Comfort Board 80 & Comfort Board 110 which is designed for exterior wall insulation on the outside of buildings. Comfort Board 110 is very rigid compared to Comfort Board 80 and the Comfort Batt insulation. I am thinking that the Comfort Board 110 will hold up the best over time and can be used in layers to create an R-30 layer over the inner cover and on the exterior of the hives on the sides. Comfort Board 110 comes in thicknesses upto 3 inches which is R-12 at the thickest. I would think tacking it on to hold it in place or tape followed by wrapping it onto the hive with pallet shipping/shrink wrap would work well for the Winter. 

When Spring arrives, remove it and store it for the next season. Bugs and mice leave Rock Wool alone as it is apparently like trying to tunnel through diatomaceous earth for insects and it is too rigid for mice. 

Rock Wool Comfort Board 110


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## Tigger19687 (Dec 27, 2014)

Why not just put it Inside an empty Super/Deep ? That way the weather will stay out and it will easily last super long.

I just went and looked at my bag, it is the Safe & Sound so they don't say what the R value is but there was testing done and it is R3.9 per inch, it is 3 inches thick.
Got shavings today so tomorrow early afternoon I will swap things around. Shavings then Roxul inside an empty Deep.
Snow/rain coming Saturday 



Live Oak said:


> I am working on this very thing. I have ordered samples of various types of insulation from Rock Wool. I am thinking the Comfort Batt in R-30 may be a great over the inner cover insulation but I am also looking at Comfort Board 80 & Comfort Board 110 which is designed for exterior wall insulation on the outside of buildings. Comfort Board 110 is very rigid compared to Comfort Board 80 and the Comfort Batt insulation. I am thinking that the Comfort Board 110 will hold up the best over time and can be used in layers to create an R-30 layer over the inner cover and on the exterior of the hives on the sides. Comfort Board 110 comes in thicknesses upto 3 inches which is R-12 at the thickest. I would think tacking it on to hold it in place or tape followed by wrapping it onto the hive with pallet shipping/shrink wrap would work well for the Winter.
> 
> When Spring arrives, remove it and store it for the next season. Bugs and mice leave Rock Wool alone as it is apparently like trying to tunnel through diatomaceous earth for insects and it is too rigid for mice.
> 
> Rock Wool Comfort Board 110


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## Live Oak (Oct 11, 2008)

Tigger19687 said:


> Why not just put it Inside an empty Super/Deep ? That way the weather will stay out and it will easily last super long.
> 
> I just went and looked at my bag, it is the Safe & Sound so they don't say what the R value is but there was testing done and it is R3.9 per inch, it is 3 inches thick.
> Got shavings today so tomorrow early afternoon I will swap things around. Shavings then Roxul inside an empty Deep.
> Snow/rain coming Saturday


That is exactly what I do insulating above the inner cover.


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## Tigger19687 (Dec 27, 2014)

Live Oak said:


> That is exactly what I do insulating above the inner cover.


My apologies, I misread and thought on top of the outer cover. 
I'm trying to figure out how much shavings to put in first.


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## Live Oak (Oct 11, 2008)

Tigger19687 said:


> My apologies, I misread and thought on top of the outer cover.
> I'm trying to figure out how much shavings to put in first.


I probably could have written that a bit clearer. I would think if you used a deep box, you could experiment with the amount of shavings vs. Roxul. A good starting point I would think might be 50/50 if you are using the really dry fluffy wood shavings like you buy in the store for pet bedding. I don't use wood chips/shavings. I use an Imirie Shim with a small entrance knotch cut in it directly under the inner cover. This allows water vapor to escape as well as a limited amount of ventilation. If the upper entrance proves to be too much for the bees and they get cold, they will propolize the entrance shut of partially shut to their liking. This also allows me a bit of extra space for emergency Winter food if needed.


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## Tigger19687 (Dec 27, 2014)

Thanks all. We are getting a few inches of snow tomorrow and 30º's so today was my last shot at this.

I have 3 hives, 2 hives have a medium box and 1 has a deep box (weak hive) for the quilt box. All had window screen stapled inside on the bottom so I could add more dry sugar during the Winter if they used up what I had put in.
I will make proper quilt boxes next year when I find out how well this Winter went.
The Burlap I had in them for the last month was damp so I am glad I decided to take it out.

So it went like this.
Screen, burlap layer (just 1 thin sheet to stop shavings from going down), about 3-4" shavings, then the 3" Roxul, inner cover with entrance screened over, then cover.
I made a little hole in the front of the Roxul where the upper entrance is for some air exhaust to get out.
The weak hive with the deep got 2 layers of the Roxul. They were a slow late start and held on so I am crossing fingers they make the Winter. They got the Deep box by chance.


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## e-spice (Sep 21, 2013)

I never insulate here in Tennessee and it gets fairly cold. Unlike people, bees are perfectly content and fine being cold as long as they're dry, mites are under control, and they have honey or sugar to eat. It's important to remember that.


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## Live Oak (Oct 11, 2008)

e-spice said:


> I never insulate here in Tennessee and it gets fairly cold. Unlike people, bees are perfectly content and fine being cold as long as they're dry, mites are under control, and they have honey or sugar to eat. It's important to remember that.


I am in Tennessee as well and agree with you. I insulate for another reason. In my area of southern Middle Tennessee, the weather can change rapidly from cold to very warm and pleasant. I have found that most of my bees never go completely broodless, typically only the smaller/weaker hives. If it is just for a few days, the bees just roll with it. If the warm spell continues for too long, especially in early Spring, they can brood up pretty heavily. If a sudden hard freeze comes, this can overwhelm the hives and kill them as the bees will not cluster back up but try to save the brood. The insulation is no guarantee of survival but I believe gives the hives a fighting chance in the event of rapidly changing severe weather. Insulating can also help a weak hive get over the hump to Spring. Even something as simple as cutting a piece of Reflectix (aka: double bubble, foamee, etc.) and laying it directly under the inner cover inside the hive can make a notable difference.


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