# HOS CDL Question



## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

I betcha if you have a skidsteer on back and they hammer you about HOS you will NOT convince them you are moving to a new house or that its a hobby to run your skidsteer up and down the road. I would abide by HOS.


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

I have the same problem convincing them that 80 hives and a forklift on the back is an occasional hobby use. It is a hobby but, by most standards it is a commercial operation. All depends on your perspective and the DOL's is you are taking advantage of them.


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## Rusty Hills Farm (Mar 24, 2010)

> _Personal Use of a Commercial Motor Vehicle
> It is possible that occasionally you may not use a truck in commerce at all. You may be moving your
> personal belongings to a new house or, as a hobby, you may be taking your horses to a horse show.
> As long as the activity is not in support of a business, the Federal hours-of-service regulations do
> ...


When I haul horses, one of the first things they ask me is if I file either 1120 or 1040 Sched C and when I say yes, they say I am in the horse business and the HOS do indeed apply. From this I would assume that they would apply to a hobby that is big enough to need a skid steer. It may not be your primary business, but it is still a business.

JMO

Rusty


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

When ever I have encountered DOT I have never had to produce a Log Book or to verify my hours of service.

Besides, there is the "beekeepers are exempt" provision.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Mark if I am not mistaken the apiaries industry provision is only when you have live bees aboard the truck. I could be wrong, but that's my understanding on that matter.

Personally I have never been bothered by DOT except when I had my initial safety inspection. Other than that I plan my trips around times when there are the least amount of DOT officers working.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

It isn't when you are doing apiary work? Getting home from the apiary is part of the job, isn't it? The last time I was stopped on RT 81 because there was a loose chain on the Bobcat when asked a set of questions I said to the Officer "Aren't beekeepers exempt?", and pointed to the sign on the side of my truck. He went back to his vehicle and a half hour later he let me tighten the chazin and sent me on my way.

I always keep my fuel receipts and motel receipts. So I can show that I slept somewhere over night and departed there at the time of checkout. Someone who sleeps in their truck, like yourself, can't do that.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Interesting. Yes its true, I do not incur motel expenses. I do generally stop at truck stops and always buy something small when I get there and generally fuel up just before I get back on the road so I do have a papertrail proof if need be, but like I said I have never been bothered by DOT on the highway.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

But no proof that you slept or were not off road for the appropriate amount of time. Not bothered by DOT? It's a matter of time. A matter of luck.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Sure I have proof. Thats why I buy something small like a soda when I first get there and fuel up just before I leave so they can see I get there at 10pm and leave just after 8am.

I do strategically plan my travels based typical DOT operations schedule. So generally speaking I have NY and Pa where its always an equal craps shoot as to whether you will be pulled over and inspected. Once out of those two states its Va which are roll thru at 40MPH scales. After that I never see an open scale during my travels.

As far as being a matter of time, I am sure of that. One day I will be pulled off and questioned/inspected.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Oh, okay, I see. I found NC the toughest State for me. NY and PA a breeze and the others not much of a concern. I was chased down one time in NC for not going thru the Scale House, years ago. Not since then though.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Yes so I never see the scale house in NC on 77 open. Even if I can get that far Friday night Ill hit it around 10pm and they are closed. Usually I dont see that scalehouse until 10am Saturday morning. It seems once south of Va the scales are 9-5 M-F. I have been pulled over once on a Sunday morning just west of Jessup at about 5am because my lights were really dim. Once the deputy see I had a trailer load of bees on he let me go. Of course that was just to the first parts store where I sat until they opened so I could change out my dead alternator.


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

Exemptions from section 391 ( 391.2) are strictly related to 391.
Section 391 deals with "driver qualifications NOT HOS.
391 has nothing to do with HOS.

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrguidedetails.aspx?menukey=391

Farmers will however gain relief for their <26000GVW trucks under MAP-21
But be careful; some states are not yet in compliance. States were given 3 years.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Hey thats a good read. I noticed they added a short break into the 14 hour window. Interesting.


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## scokat (Apr 19, 2011)

ok so i have to abide by HOS, no problem, inconvenient yes, but have to as i am driving tue/wed down thur/fri back. So I have my cdl-a, my dot # and my NYS apiary inspection. anything else I need, or I am forgetting? Do any of you run big trucks? I was wondering about insurance through Farm Bureau for a big truck as I know insurance can be expensive. also If i get a bigger truck be it straight truck or semi, should I put Ag plates on it? just postulating for the future, any insight or thoughts are appreciated.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

What size truck do you have now? Where in FL r u going? What is your planned route?

R u going down 17 across PA to 81 at Harrisburg,PA and then down to Winchester,VA across to 95 down into FL?


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## scokat (Apr 19, 2011)

i have diesel dually 1 ton, its limited out at 11000gvw with towing at 23500. heading to hosford, fl,


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

You are supposed to have your name or company name on the door too. NYDOT guy pulled me over one time years ago and told me to get a DOT#. So I did. Then he pulled me over and asked where my name was. lol "Is there a list somewhere?", I asked. Apparently not.

Do you have a NYDOT# or a USDOT#?

I have an F-450 16,000lb GVWR and a trailer w/ 9,900lb GVWR, both w/ AG plates. Not Farm Plates, Agricultural.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

You must have about 1600 or more miles to drive, don't you? PA will somewhat slow going across. It's 1000 miles from here to where I go in SC and I figure about 23 hours of driving time, not including sleeping time. You are going to have two long days each way. How many hours do you think you will be driving? Solo?


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## scokat (Apr 19, 2011)

i have us dot #, and have magnetic signs with business name, town phone # and us dot number, i will be going down 90 to 75 down to talahassi. google says 1201 miles, figure 11hrs first day then finish the second,


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## MNbees (May 27, 2013)

(b) Apiarian industries. The rules in this part, except for §391.15(e) and (g), do not apply to a driver who is operating a commercial motor vehicle controlled and operated by a beekeeper engaged in the seasonal transportation of bees.

This is very real. spoke with both federal and state FMCSA.

Beekeepers are indeed exempt from everything in that law- 390 through 399 statutes 

The important ones are: health card and log book
that means you can hire a driver that might smoke more than the bee's


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## MNbees (May 27, 2013)

HarryVanderpool said:


> Exemptions from section 391 ( 391.2) are strictly related to 391.
> 
> 
> False.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

I have talked with 2 different DOT officials about this, including the person who did my audit that was management level and in charge of training new employees. They both said what Harry is saying, the exemption applies only to the provisions in section 391 relating to driver qualifications. The way I have this issue figured is that it's confusing even to those who enforce it and just pointing out the exemption (and having a few bees buzzing around) is usually enough to make most officials back down regardless of exactly what the law reads. My advice: Just get your CDL, medical card and keep a log book while traveling away from home and you shouldn't have to worry about much.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

scokat said:


> ok so i have to abide by HOS, no problem, inconvenient yes, but have to as i am driving tue/wed down thur/fri back. So I have my cdl-a, my dot # and my NYS apiary inspection. anything else I need, or I am forgetting? Do any of you run big trucks? I was wondering about insurance through Farm Bureau for a big truck as I know insurance can be expensive. also If i get a bigger truck be it straight truck or semi, should I put Ag plates on it? just postulating for the future, any insight or thoughts are appreciated.


Your insurance situation is pretty much between you and your insurance company. They dont appreciate finding out after the fact that part of your business involves operating in another state and they also want to know about any trailers that you might be pulling. You would probably still be covered but you might find your rates changing drastically thereafter.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

There is additional _clarification _(using that term in the perverted Federal government sense ) of the _beekeeper exemption_ in a recent _Federal Register_ page:

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2013-03-14/html/2013-05897.htm

If you search for the 4 instances of the word "beekeeper", I'm pretty sure you will agree that the effect of the beekeeper exemptions are limited to certain requirements all in Part 391.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

scokat said:


> i have diesel dually 1 ton, its limited out at 11000gvw with towing at 23500. heading to hosford, fl,


Does your phone number start with 315???
When I got my inspection letter in the mail it listed my bees going to Hosford Fl, with my destination phone number of 315.
As far as insurance, dont worry. Once you buy a bigger truck your insurance company will be happy to point out you need commercial insurance.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

scokat is in Orleans County. I don't think 315 area code runs over that far. They must really be slipping somewhere in the Inspection paperwork system. scokat's Apiary Inspector lives in the 315 area code. Actually both of our Inspectors do.

scokat, how is your skidsteer situated on your trailer? What r u using for load boards or spreader boards across the tops of your rows of palletized hives? I hope you aren't just using straps. Have you moved hives around from yd to yd using your trailer and loader? I hope this won't be your first time doing this sort of thing. How are the tires on the trailer? Carrying a spare?

At least you don't have to keep pace w/ a semi load. If something happens and you have to sit a while, at least there isn't a semi loaded w/ hives sitting somewhere warm waiting for you to show up to unload it.

Best wishes for an uneventful trip. When folks ask me how the trip went I like to be able to reply, "It was uneventful."


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

uneventful. Same term I use, as I have had enough eventful trips. Lucky for me none had to do with the load. Dead alternators, blowouts, trailer electrical issues, valve stems that just go bad on the road, failed serpentine tensioner, etc...


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

sqkcrk said:


> ? What r u using for load boards or spreader boards across the tops of your rows of palletized hives? I hope you aren't just using straps.


Wow - that could be an invitation for major trouble. I would not think that would even be possible. Of all the tips that Mark is giving you I suspect that this may be the most important. I have never done any long hauls, only hauling Marks bees a hundred miles or so, but those spreaders were totally essential..... best carry a couple spare ones too.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

hpm08161947 said:


> but those spreaders were totally essential..... best carry a couple spare ones too.


Speaking of eventful trips, eh Herb? Broke a spreader board and a box because of a loose strap which got under a rear wheel going down the highway. Had an encounter w/ a NC State Trooper who wanted to check my weight until the bees told him "Ain't gonna happen."

Coulda been worse.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

So Mark, what do you use for Load Boards?

I have been using 2*6s but they like to flex too much. I am considering having some local Amish mill me out some 3*4 Oak.


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## scokat (Apr 19, 2011)

I have spreader boards, that span across the trailer, cover two pallets, which covers all eight hives on the two pallets, my trailer is 1 yr old, new tires, and spare, hydraulic jack, 4way lug wrench, warning triangle, first aid kit, fire ext. extra fuses, tire plug kit, tool kit.

The pallets are designed so the bottom two boards/ or feet under the pallet are set back 2 7/8 inch so as to fit inside the top cover of the hive it is sitting on top of. My migratory tops have a 2 3/4 board accross the top front and back, and this allows the pallets to lock into each other while stacked. Its worked so far traveling around here, my furthest yard is 72 miles away.

I have been using the skid steer and trailer moving hives this past year so im used to it. I am just looking for a forklift pallet mast, and maybe someday if i can afford it get those rear spin wheels for the skid steer. 

I load the front of the trailer with 4 rows double stacked pallets. Then back the skid steer onto the trailer with the forks hanging down over the beaver tail, secured with 4 load transport chains and ratcheting binders, and wheel chocks secured to the trailer.

my load boards are 2x6.

spreader board


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

BMAC said:


> So Mark, what do you use for Load Boards?
> 
> I have been using 2*6s but they like to flex too much. I am considering having some local Amish mill me out some 3*4 Oak.


Why add so much weight to your load? Besides having to heft them manually. You will always get older. Think of the future when you don't want to, or won't be able to, lift and move a heavy peice of lumber. Were I you I would stick w/ the 2x6 or use the 2x4 spreader boards w/ the two parallel pieces and the 4 short 2x4s between them. Those are what I use on the semi and 2x6 or 8 on my truck when the semi is using the others.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

scokat said:


> I have spreader boards, that span across the trailer, cover two pallets, which covers all eight hives on the two pallets, my trailer is 1 yr old, new tires, and spare, hydraulic jack, 4way lug wrench, warning triangle, first aid kit, fire ext. extra fuses, tire plug kit, tool kit.
> 
> The pallets are designed so the bottom two boards/ or feet under the pallet are set back 2 7/8 inch so as to fit inside the top cover of the hive it is sitting on top of. My migratory tops have a 2 3/4 board accross the top front and back, and this allows the pallets to lock into each other while stacked. Its worked so far traveling around here, my furthest yard is 72 miles away.
> 
> ...


Seems like you are all set for your trip to FL. Now all you have to do is keep it between the ditches. Bon voyage.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

sqkcrk said:


> Were I you I would stick w/ the 2x6 or use the 2x4 spreader boards w/ the two parallel pieces and the 4 short 2x4s between them. Those are what I use on the semi and 2x6 or 8 on my truck when the semi is using the others.


 I have never used the spreader boards. By using the spreader boards you eliminate the upward board in the middle of the 2*6?


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## MNbees (May 27, 2013)

jim lyon said:


> I have talked with 2 different DOT officials about this, including the person who did my audit that was management level and in charge of training new employees. They both said what Harry is saying, the exemption applies only to the provisions in section 391 relating to driver qualifications. The way I have this issue figured is that it's confusing even to those who enforce it and just pointing out the exemption (and having a few bees buzzing around) is usually enough to make most officials back down regardless of exactly what the law reads. My advice: Just get your CDL, medical card and keep a log book while traveling away from home and you shouldn't have to worry about much.


We hire a driver to drive our truck. he did not have time to get his medical card updated. so i called and spoke with the Federal FMCSA who gave me the local contact for the MN FMCSA dept. I contacted them last week and we went over everything in 390-399 and he even printed a copy and sent it to me. I asked him in very very clear layman's terms does this actually mean we are exempt. In the copy he sent me he even highlighted the important ones that would make a difference to me.
that being: maintenance records, logs books, and Med card.

He advised to make copies of what he sent me and have it in all trucks as DOT is not familiar with it in lots of cases.
As long as you own the truck and own the bee's/equipment you are exempt.

except for §391.15(e) and (g)- which pertains disqualifications for drivers








DOT does not know the rules exactly i guess.
But yes probably smart just to have Logs and what not because some times people (dot) don't take kindly to others telling them their business.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

MNbees said:


> We hire a driver to drive our truck. he did not have time to get his medical card updated. so i called and spoke with the Federal FMCSA who gave me the local contact for the MN FMCSA dept. I contacted them last week and we went over everything in 390-399 and he even printed a copy and sent it to me. I asked him in very very clear layman's terms does this actually mean we are exempt. In the copy he sent me he even highlighted the important ones that would make a difference to me.
> that being: maintenance records, logs books, and Med card.
> 
> He advised to make copies of what he sent me and have it in all trucks as DOT is not familiar with it in lots of cases.
> ...


Hey I want YOU to be right on this, I dont doubt anything you are saying. No wonder there is such confusion when we have conflicting answers from enforcement people. The folks I talked to were pretty definitive about their reading of the statutes as well. Whats a beekeeper to do.


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## MNbees (May 27, 2013)

Yes that makes it confusing. I first spoke with DOT as well and they said what you said, but i could tell they were just saying it off the cuff so i looked deeper and that's what i came up with. 

with bee hauling/loading/unloading being so weather dependent it only seems fair to let us drive when we need to.....

bee's are bringing in nectar in east texas.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

When I called the DOT in state of South Dakota with my questions I was first referred to a fairly knowledgable sounding person. I specifically asked her what EXACTLY does the Apiarian exemption in 391.2 exempt beekeepers from. She rambled for a bit, seemed a bit confused, then paused and said "let me refer you to the person here that best understands these regulations". The gentleman that I then talked to seemed quite knowledgable and definitive. He said that I wasnt the first to ask and that the exemption relates only to the provisions in section 391 and was originally written with the intent of offering relief to some seasonal agricultural businesses that werent able to find enough drivers to fill their short term seasonal needs but that log books and medical cards were a separate issue entirely and the DOT still requires annual vehicle inspections regardless of who is driving or what they are carrying. I profess to having no expertise on this at all, just recounting what I have been told. 
So there ya go. My take on this is there may well be enforcement people out there laboring under entirely different interpretations of the law. Ignore what you will at your own risk.


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## scokat (Apr 19, 2011)

I agree Jim, here is what I found, all farm/ Apiary exemtions are listed in 390.39, however that being said, 390.5/ Definitions -states gvw not GCVWR, so my gvw on my truck is 11000, my trailer is 22500, 'im less than 26000, not combined so go to 390.39, exemptions for farm vehicles/ exempt HOS, and others. I guess it comes down to how long do you want to sit on the side of the road.


Subpart A - General applicability and definitions 

§ 390.5DefinitionsCovered farm vehicle— (1) Means a straight truck or articulated vehicle— 
(i) Registered in a State with a license plate or other designation issued by the State of registration that allows law enforcement officials to identify it as a farm vehicle; 
(ii) Operated by the owner or operator of a farm or ranch, or an employee or family member of a an owner or operator of a farm or ranch; 
(iii) Used to transport agricultural commodities, livestock, machinery or supplies to or from a farm or ranch; and 
(iv) Not used in for-hire motor carrier operations; however, for-hire motor carrier operations do not include the operation of a vehicle meeting the requirements of paragraphs (1)(i) through (iii) of this definition by a tenant pursuant to a crop share farm lease agreement to transport the landlord’s portion of the crops under that agreement. 
(2) Meeting the requirements of paragraphs (1)(i) through (iv) of this definition: 
(i) With a gross vehicle weight or gross vehicle weight rating, whichever is greater, of 26,001 pounds or less may utilize the exemptions in § 390.39 anywhere in the United States; or 
(ii) With a gross vehicle weight or gross vehicle weight rating, whichever is greater, of more than 26,001 pounds may utilize the exemptions in § 390.39 anywhere in the State of registration or across State lines within 150 air miles of the farm or ranch with respect to which the vehicle is being operated.

Subpart B - General requirements and information 

§ 390.39Exemptions for "covered farm vehicles."(a) Federal requirements. A covered farm vehicle, as defined in § 390.5, including the individual operating that vehicle, is exempt from the following: 
(1) Any requirement relating to commercial driver’s licenses in 49 CFR Part 383 or controlled substances and alcohol use and testing in 49 CFR Part 382;
(2) Any requirement in 49 CFR Part 391, Subpart E, Physical Qualifications and Examinations. 
(3) Any requirement in 49 CFR Part 395, Hours of Service of Drivers. 
(4) Any requirement in 49 CFR Part 396, Inspection, Repair, and Maintenance.
(b) State requirements—(1) In general.—Federal transportation funding to a State may not be terminated, limited, or otherwise interfered with as a result of the State exempting a covered farm vehicle, including the individual operating that vehicle, from any State requirement relating to the operation of that vehicle. 
(2) Exception.—Paragraph (b)(1) of this section does not apply with respect to a covered farm vehicle transporting hazardous materials that require a placard. 
(c) Other exemptions and exceptions.—The exemptions in paragraphs (a) and (b) of this section are in addition to, not in place of, the agricultural exemptions and exceptions in §§ 383.3(d)(1), 383.3(e), 383.3(f), 391.2(a), 391.2(b), 391.2(c), 391.67, 395.1(e)(1), 395.1(e)(2), 395.1(h), 395.1(i), and 395.1(k) of this chapter. Motor carriers and drivers may utilize any combination of these exemptions and exceptions, providing they comply fully with each separate exemption and exception.
[78 FR 16194, March 14, 2013]

(d) Exception for farmers, firefighters, emergency response vehicle drivers, and drivers removing snow and ice. A State may, at its discretion, exempt individuals identified in paragraphs (d)(1), (d)(2), and (d)(3) of this section from the requirements of this part. The use of this waiver is limited to the driver's home State unless there is a reciprocity agreement with adjoining States. 
(1) Operators of a farm vehicle which is:
(i) Controlled and operated by a farmer, including operation by employees or family members;
(ii) Used to transport either agricultural products, farm machinery, farm supplies, or both to or from a farm;
(iii) Not used in the operations of a common or contract motor carrier; and
(iv) Used within 241 kilometers (150 miles) of the farmer's farm
(a)	Farm custom operation. The rules in this part, except for §391.15(e) and (g), do not apply to a driver who drives a commercial motor vehicle controlled and operated by a person engaged in custom-harvesting operations, if the commercial motor vehicle is used to—
§ 391.2General exceptions.
(a) Farm custom operation. The rules in this part, except for §391.15(e) and (g), do not apply to a driver who drives a commercial motor vehicle controlled and operated by a person engaged in custom-harvesting operations, if the commercial motor vehicle is used to—
(1) Transport farm machinery, supplies, or both, to or from a farm for custom-harvesting operations on a farm; or
(2) Transport custom-harvested crops to storage or market.
(b) Apiarian industries. The rules in this part, except for §391.15(e) and (g), do not apply to a driver who is operating a commercial motor vehicle controlled and operated by a beekeeper engaged in the seasonal transportation of bees.
(c) Certain farm vehicle drivers. The rules in this part , except for §391.15(e) and (g), do not apply to a farm vehicle driver except a farm vehicle driver who drives an articulated (combination) commercial motor vehicle, as defined in §390.5 of this chapter. For limited exemptions for farm vehicle drivers of articulated commercial motor vehicles, see §391.67.
(d) Covered farm vehicles. The rules in part 391, Subpart E—Physical Qualifications and Examinations—do not apply to drivers of "covered farm vehicles," as defined in 49 CFR 390.5.
[76 FR 75487, Dec. 2, 2011; 78 FR 16195, March 14, 2013]

< 391.65 391.68 > 
parrt G - Limited exemptions 

§ 391.67Farm vehicle drivers of articulated commercial motor vehicles.
The following rules in this part do not apply to a farm vehicle driver (as defined in §390.5 of this subchapter) who is 18 years of age or older and who drives an articulated commercial motor vehicle:
(a) Section 391.11(b)(1), (b)(6) and (b)(8) (relating to general qualifications of drivers);
(b) Subpart C (relating to disclosure of, investigation into, and inquiries about the background, character, and driving record of drivers);
(c) Subpart D (relating to road tests); and
(d) Subpart F (relating to maintenance of files and records


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## MNbees (May 27, 2013)

well now i have no idea what to believe.
i guess instead of trying to get around it a person should just abide.
I would still like to know which way is correct because it could come in handy in a pinch.


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

you have just seen the light...there are so many regulations and so much confusion that no one includeing the regulation enforcers actualy knows what is happening. a note from earlier posts, commercial, agricultural and farm plate regulations are totally different state to state. you must study how these interact on a state by state basis.


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

Remember Scokat, MAP-21 became effective Oct 2012 BUT states were given 3 years to comply.
The rules you listed were the affects of MAP-21
You want to be aware of each state you operate in until all states are compliant.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

BMAC said:


> I have never used the spreader boards. By using the spreader boards you eliminate the upward board in the middle of the 2*6?


Huh? I don't know what you mean? "upward board in the middle of the 2X6"? What's that?


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Sorry I meant the upward bowing of the load board. You know middle of the load board tends to bow up when strapping down the load board tight.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

jim lyon said:


> Hey I want YOU to be right on this, I dont doubt anything you are saying. No wonder there is such confusion when we have conflicting answers from enforcement people. The folks I talked to were pretty definitive about their reading of the statutes as well. Whats a beekeeper to do.


Politely request that the person check w/ their Supervisor. I did that once when a Scale House person said that my trailer registration had nothing to do w/ what the scale said, that my truck was overloaded because the combined weight of the truck and the trailer was over 16,000 lbs. He checked and said I could leave.

When I was stopped for the loose chain I said to the Trooper "Aren't beekeepers exempt?" and he went to his truck and checked. Came back, had me tighten the binder and sent me on my way.

Respect will get you respect. There are those guys you just can't talk to at all. But, hopefully not too many of them.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

BMAC said:


> Sorry I meant the upward bowing of the load board. You know middle of the load board tends to bow up when strapping down the load board tight.


Right. I see now.


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## scokat (Apr 19, 2011)

OK just got off the phone with a Fed NY DOT and asked the question i stated above on the farm exemtion, he checked the reg and agreed it says gvw not gcvwr, but he said if you got to 395.2 for people without sleepers, ( he told me this is unadvertised) that the law changed , you can now sleep in the passenger seat of your pickup, and it will count as your 8 hrs off. so if you cant get a hotel, sleep in your truck.

also called ohio, kentucky, and tenessee, fed dot, farm vehicles are exempt. even on the highway. still have to pull into weigh station , but exempt.

Hours of service of drivers

§ 395.2Definitions.

On-duty time means all time from the time a driver begins to work or is required to be in readiness to work until the time the driver is relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work. 
On-duty time shall include: 
(1) All time at a plant, terminal, facility, or other property of a motor carrier or shipper, or on any public property, waiting to be dispatched, unless the driver has been relieved from duty by the motor carrier;
(2) All time inspecting, servicing, or conditioning any commercial motor vehicle at any time; 
(3) All driving time as defined in the term driving time;
(4) All time in or on a commercial motor vehicle, *other than*:
*(i) Time spent resting in or on a parked vehicle*, except as otherwise provided in §397.5 of this subchapter;
(ii) Time spent resting in a sleeper berth;


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

You are being very thorough. You will know more than some of the DOT persons you may encounter. You also may not encounter any. Many a time I drive to SC and I don't find any open scale houses. Not that I am complaining.


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## scokat (Apr 19, 2011)

well, since i carry a badge, i like to know what i'm doing. I retire oct 30, 2014, so i am going to get as much inside knowledge as i can while i can.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Oh, I didn't know that. So, no "Gee Officer, I didn't know that." for you, eh? You've heard all of those there are, haven't you?

Town, County, or State Policeman?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

scokat said:


> well, since i carry a badge, i like to know what i'm doing. I retire oct 30, 2014, so i am going to get as much inside knowledge as i can while i can.


So, u aren't doing some undercover investigative work here on beesource then?


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

sqkcrk said:


> So, u aren't doing some undercover investigative work here on beesource then?


Is he making you nervous? lol. He is Fed BTW.


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## scokat (Apr 19, 2011)

no i just slept at a holiday in last night...


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

BMAC said:


> He is Fed BTW.


How'd you figger that out?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

scokat said:


> I retire oct 30, 2014,


At 51 years of age?!! There aught to be a law. 

Good for you.


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## scokat (Apr 19, 2011)

there is, i'm mandatory at 57, so i have 30 in already so im going......:banana:


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

So why worry about being stopped? Just a flash a badge at them and be on your way........ You know... "Professional Courtesy".... isn't that the way it works....


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## scokat (Apr 19, 2011)

I categorically deny any knowledge or have any information of what you ask.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

sqkcrk said:


> How'd you figger that out?


Its a gift I have.


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## scokat (Apr 19, 2011)

for those of you without sleeper births, here is the memo to DOT explaining it at the bottom.

U.S. Department
of Transportation
Federal Motor Carrier
Safety Administration
Memorandum
Subject: ACTION: Phase I: Implementation of the Date: FEB 2 4 2012


PURPOSE
The purpose of this memorandum is to provide Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration
(FMCSA) personnel and our State Motor Carrier Safety Assistance Program partners with
procedures for implementing the recently published Hours of Service (HOS) fmal rule. All
previously issued HOS policies that are not impacted by this policy remain in effect.
BACKGROUND
On December 27, 2011, FMCSA published its "Hours of Service of Drivers" final rule. The rule
revised the HOS regulations to: (1) limit the use of the 34-hour restart provision; (2) include a
requirement for rest breaks; (3) change the definition of"on-duty" time; (4) add a "waiting time"
provision for drivers of commercial motor vehicles that are specially constructed to service oil
wells; and (5) define egregious violations and establish maximum civil penalties for those
violations.
The HOS of Drivers final rule is being implemented in two phases.
• Phase I-Implement the final rule provisions that are effective on February 27, 2012. Those
provisions include the change to the definition of on-duty time in 49 Code of Federal
Regulations (CFR) 395.2; the "waiting time" requirement in 49 CFR 395.l(d)(2). The
egregious violation provision, which defines and establishes maximum penalties for
egregious violations, will be implemented during Phase I but under a separate policy.
• Phase II- Implement the final rule provisions that are effective on July 1, 2013. Those
provisions include the limitation on the use of the 34-hour restart; and the prohibition on
driving, if more than 8 hours have passed since the driver's last off-duty or sleeper berth
break of at least 30 minutes.

POLICY
On-Duty Time
Definition of On-Duty Time
2
As set forth in 49 CFR 395.2, on-duty time means all time from when a driver begins to work or
is required to be in readiness to work, until the time the driver is relieved from work and all
responsibility for performing work. As of February 27, 2012, on-duty time does not include any
time resting in a parked vehicle or up to 2 hours riding in the passenger seat of a property carrying
commercial motor vehicle (CMV) moving on the highway immediately before or after a
period of at least 8 consecutive hours in the sleeper berth. All other sections of the definition of
on-duty time remain unchanged.
Compliance with and Enforcement of the On-Duty Time Provision
The time spent resting in a parked vehicle or up to 2 hours riding in a passenger seat of a
property-carrying CMV moving on the highway, immediately before or after a period of at least
8 consecutive hours in the sleeper berth is considered off-duty time. The 2 hours riding in the
passenger seat plus the 8 consecutive hours in the sleeper berth is equivalent to the required I 0
consecutive hours off duty time.
The key elements to consider relating to the new on-duty time provision are as follows:
I. The "up to 2 hours" riding in a passenger seat of a property-carrying CMV in conjunction
with 8 hours in the sleeper berth is off-duty time. If the full 2 hours are utilized, when
added to the 8 hours in the sleeper, it will constitute the full 1 0-hour off-duty
requirement. If fewer than 2 hours are used riding in a passenger seat of a propertycarrying
CMV and the full 1 0-hour off duty requirement is not met, the time spent riding
in the passenger seat will be included in the calculation of the I4-hour period. For
example; if a driver spends 8 hours in the sleeper berth and 1 hour riding in the passenger
seat, the I hour riding in the passenger seat would be included in the 14-hour period
because he or she has not met the 1 0-hour break requirement.
2. If a driver rides more than 2 hours in the passenger seat of a property-carrying CMV, any
time in excess of those 2 hours is considered on-duty not driving time, and should be
included when determining compliance with the 14-hour on-duty period requirements.
3. The 2-hour time period riding in a passenger seat may be split into any combination of
time before and after the 8-hour sleeper berth break. For example, if a driver rides in the
passenger seat for 1 hour before and 1 hour after the 8-hour sleeper berth break, or 30
minutes before and 1 \12 hours after, the entire 2-hour period is considered off-duty time.
*4. A driver is permitted to accumulate the required 8 or 10 hours off duty while resting in a
parked vehicle.*


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