# How common is this??



## RangerLee (Apr 26, 2015)

So was talking with some larger guys from Montana and Idaho who said they winter their bees in climate/light controlled barns... by changing the light timing and temperature they start building their hives brooding in December and then deliver huge booming hives for Almonds.... and from what I saw their hives were seriously booming


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

I've read it in one of Larry Conner's books, but have never met or heard of anyone that did or does it as a general practice. I'm guessing it's not a very common practice.

Larry Conner wrote about increasing day light hour length in order to get earlier drones in the season. I don't know of anyone who has done it for the purpose you have posted.


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## MTN-Bees (Jan 27, 2014)

Through Facebook if you have an account track down Israel Bravo. Israel is big into cold storage for bees. A large Bee cold storage facility opens in the fall down in Bakersfield.


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## herbhome (Oct 18, 2015)

This is interesting as it would suggest that brood initiation is day-length sensitive. Surely there is research in this area, I just haven't come across it before.
For many years goat dairies have used timer controlled lights in the barns to bring does into heat out of season. This is necessary to ensure a reliable supply of milk year round. Hopefully someone more knowledgable than me will chime in.


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## Nick Noyes (Apr 28, 2005)

You don't want any light coming in, total darkness is ideal. The bees will go to any light and will not come back to the hive.


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## B&E (Dec 27, 2011)

I've wintered indoors a few years. By bees came out with several frames of capped brood last spring. Nothing to do with daylight at all. They can't have even a Crack of light or you get a big mess.

How do they know to rear brood? Don't know. The bees are getting old? The Temps do get warm inside more often in late winter but not drastically.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

They controlled the light?? 
Hmm, perhaps they were talking temperature and humidity


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

Well, doesn't it have to do more with how the hives go into the shed.... I mean, if you stick packed hives into the shed in winter, it's not suprising they're booming when they come out. But if you're telling me, they stick 6-8 framers in winter and they come out at 16 frames that's something different.


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## schmism (Feb 7, 2009)

JRG13 said:


> Well, doesn't it have to do more with how the hives go into the shed.... I mean, if you stick packed hives into the shed in winter, it's not suprising they're booming when they come out. But if you're telling me, they stick 6-8 framers in winter and they come out at 16 frames that's something different.


https://beeinformed.org/2017/12/05/...ers-overwintering-their-bees-in-cold-storage/

Seems to suggest that the rapid transition between long period of persistent cold temperature kickstarts the queen in to rapid laying as if the hive has missed out on precious spring time in order to get hive things done. 

So in with 10 full frames, out with 10 full frames and an attitude that there is no time to waste.


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## justin (Jun 16, 2007)

pretty common here, local guy built his own building, i drive mine to idaho. talked to a big guy from texas who used to winter there, he built a building in idaho, said texas wasn't working anymore. you get out what you put in, but you don't have the losses associated with foraging bees when nothing is blooming, cold, rain,etc...the trucking isn't too hard on them if you are 12 hours away from the central valley. you want it dark inside. we had about a softball patch of brood on the middle 2 frames coming out of the building.


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## Bush_84 (Jan 9, 2011)

Awesome discussion. I winter bees indoors on a small scale. I have often wondered about this. I haven’t done this long enough to make observations, but I did have one hive come out my shed in March nearly filling three deeps and with drones. Drones in March in Minnesota! Can’t explain it. 

I’m very curious to find ways to stimulate my bees indoors before they go out. Anybody try feeding pollen sub/sugar syrup before they go out? Any data on increasing temps/humidity and brood production?


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## aran (May 20, 2015)

Bush_84 said:


> Awesome discussion. I winter bees indoors on a small scale. I have often wondered about this. I haven’t done this long enough to make observations, but I did have one hive come out my shed in March nearly filling three deeps and with drones. Drones in March in Minnesota! Can’t explain it.
> 
> I’m very curious to find ways to stimulate my bees indoors before they go out. Anybody try feeding pollen sub/sugar syrup before they go out? Any data on increasing temps/humidity and brood production?



As a hobbyist in the north im interested to hear your methods of keeping bees in a shed over winter. I only have a dozen or so hives and I do have a nice shed on my property that is currently not in use. Can you elaborate on the process? any special equipment needed? CO2 etc?


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## hex0rz (Jan 14, 2014)

Maybe these people built something to this effect:

https://youtu.be/n4dRPsbwhlQ


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## Bush_84 (Jan 9, 2011)

aran said:


> As a hobbyist in the north im interested to hear your methods of keeping bees in a shed over winter. I only have a dozen or so hives and I do have a nice shed on my property that is currently not in use. Can you elaborate on the process? any special equipment needed? CO2 etc?


Keeping bees indoors isn’t for everyone or every climate. Google Beaverlodge and indoor wintering. They have some good info. Check out Ian’s posts/topics. I’ll link his website below as well. He also has a YouTube channel a candanian beekeepers blog. I’ll also link below my topic to my New Bee room build. 

http://stepplerfarms.com/StepplerHoney.html

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?342618-My-New-Bee-Shed-Build


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## psm1212 (Feb 9, 2016)

I may be misquoting him, but Randy Oliver has a you tube video out that I think was shot in New Zealand. In that video I thought Randy said that the lengthening of daylight does not serve as a brood-rearing trigger. Randy says the brood rearing trigger is the presence of pollen. Which makes sense, because they cannot rear brood without it.


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## Bush_84 (Jan 9, 2011)

I’m going to guess that there are possibly multiple factors at play. I don’t believe that light or pollen are the only thing effecting brood production. Hives in the north will have brood long before flying weather and much sooner than pollen comes in. As I’ve said I’ve also had hives with brood in my wintering shed which is dark. I don’t know the answers but having witnesses that I believe it’s probably some combination of light, pollen, heat, humidity, genetics, and breed. 

If I had the resources I’d run an experiment to try to isolate these factors and measure their effect on brood. Unfortunately I don’t have the bee resources to even come close to this.


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## psm1212 (Feb 9, 2016)

I found it. Sorry I can't link it, but I can't get to You Tube at work. It is the "Apiculture New Zealand - Randy Oliver Workshop 1" at around 16:45.

"Beekeepers have this misconception that the bee's year has to do with the . . . length of daylight. It has nothing to do with the length of daylight. It has to do with pollen."

That stood out in my mind because I had always believed that the lengthening of days had a controlling effect. And maybe it does have a controlling effect on pollen, so this could be an exercise in semantics. And just because Randy said it does not mean it is Gospel.


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## ozbee (Feb 13, 2012)

in northern Australia in the dry tropics we have many grades and types of pollen all year round . hives will drop about 30 percent in numbers from autumn to winter purely because of daylight hours . some breeder lines are extremely sensitive and may stop laying for a week while others don't miss a beat just cut back a bit.


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