# wing deformation with varroa -



## beenoob (Jun 16, 2016)

I have had lots of pets, lots of little farm animals, and I have had to put some of them down, some of them didnt make it, but seeing a little bee walk out the hive with deformed wings and a varroa mite sucking the life out of it affected me more than anything else. Its been on my mind all day. 

I opened this hive up and the queen is laying still, I saw day 1-2 eggs in the 2nd medium and closed it back up immediately, the bee's I observed looked normal. I treated this hive with OAV twice in past 2 weeks and due for 3rd treatment in 3 days. Is there anything else I can do? I didnt want to disturb the hive too much, being that this hive is the one that is getting hammered by wasps as well. Entrance is reduced. Should I take off all the boxes and get to the first brood box and see if I see more wing deformation and if so, are there next steps other than treatment?


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

It _is_ heartbreaking. 


I'd just keep treating,probably add a fourth dose on at the end to keep up the pressure on the mites that are transmitting the disease. And be sure to plan on doing the broodless period one-shot treatment in December.

You colony is not inevitably doomed, however. Just baby it and make sure all their other needs are met to the best you can. And next year start treating earlier in the season, perhaps consider using MAQS in the summer if you've got the temps for that. 

Enj.


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

You're doing what you're supposed to do. If you see one or two deformed wing virus bees you act. (you're doing it)
If you see deformed bees crawling all over the yard you panic and spring into action. 
I'm not that TF guy but had plans of it until that day I saw all the crawlers last summer. (2015) 
It was heartbreaking and caused me to lose sleep. 
All is well now and again...when I see a deformed bee or k-wing I start inching toward the treatments. 
See a lot and I'm running to go get it. At $140 a pop losing colonies can get expensive real quickly.


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## fieldsofnaturalhoney (Feb 29, 2012)

beenoob said:


> Is there anything else I can do? Should I take off all the boxes and get to the first brood box and see if I see more wing deformation and if so, are there next steps other than treatment?


Yes, get use to bee deaths due to various reasons, including from DWV. No, I wouldn't, and you are due for another treatment in three days anyway


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

In a normal healthy hive most of the time during "bee season" there are 1,500 bees dying everyday. In a booming hive six weeks after the peak of laying they are dying at a rate of 3,000 bees a day. If you are going to keep bees you need to get used to them dying...


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

Michael Bush said:


> In a normal healthy hive most of the time during "bee season" there are 1,500 bees dying everyday. In a booming hive six weeks after the peak of laying they are dying at a rate of 3,000 bees a day. If you are going to keep bees you need to get used to them dying...


Excellent point. There are dead bees all over my yard(s). Have to assume they died of old age in general. 

The bee eater birds come thru spring and again in the fall and they clean up the mess. Kind of cool.


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## beenoob (Jun 16, 2016)

aunt betty said:


> Excellent point. There are dead bees all over my yard(s). Have to assume they died of old age in general.
> 
> The bee eater birds come thru spring and again in the fall and they clean up the mess. Kind of cool.


Im ok with bee death, its the thought that I could be better at prevention that caused it, which Im looking to improve, being newer at this.


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

DWV is not necessarily a death sentence. I had hundreds of crawlers coming out of one hive in particular I almost broke my vow to never treat with that one, but winter was fast approaching so I thought it was too late anyways and let it ride. That was 3 yrs ago and it bounced back last yr and became my most productive colony. Was also one of the more productive colonies this yr as well although after that I did take some splits off of it this yr to get more of their genetics so that did set them back a little on honey production this yr and it's one of my strongest going into this winter.


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

Harley Craig said:


> DWV is not necessarily a death sentence. I had hundreds of crawlers coming out of one hive in particular I almost broke my vow to never treat with that one, but winter was fast approaching so I thought it was too late anyways and let it ride. That was 3 yrs ago and it bounced back last yr and became my most productive colony. Was also one of the more productive colonies this yr as well although after that I did take some splits off of it this yr to get more of their genetics so that did set them back a little on honey production this yr and it's one of my strongest going into this winter.


Similar experiences here. DWV doesn't always mean dead hive. The times I've seen it the hive recovered on it's own. I've seen 0 cases this year, and like you, bees are starting to become more productive.


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## sandmtn (Jul 7, 2016)

beenoob, Did you see deformed wings only after doing an OAV treatment? If so, that is what I experienced. I thought I was seeing signs of DWV. Afterwards, I did go into the hive and pull a couple of brood frames only to see nothing of DWV anywhere in the hive.

I treated again this morning and sometime later, saw a couple of bees with shriveled wings crawling around on the ground. I also saw that they were frosty with OA crystals. Now I believe these and probably the one last week were burned by the OA.

Something to consider.


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## MicandTessa (Apr 1, 2016)

I may be remembering this wrong but I had seen a video from the UK that they have determined there are different strains of DWV and some are not a death sentence to the hive.


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

MicandTessa said:


> I may be remembering this wrong but I had seen a video from the UK that they have determined there are different strains of DWV and some are not a death sentence to the hive.


Here is the video you are referring to I believe. https://youtu.be/DUFDXl8VGvs


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## beenoob (Jun 16, 2016)

sandmtn said:


> beenoob, Did you see deformed wings only after doing an OAV treatment? If so, that is what I experienced. I thought I was seeing signs of DWV. Afterwards, I did go into the hive and pull a couple of brood frames only to see nothing of DWV anywhere in the hive.
> 
> I treated again this morning and sometime later, saw a couple of bees with shriveled wings crawling around on the ground. I also saw that they were frosty with OA crystals. Now I believe these and probably the one last week were burned by the OA.
> 
> Something to consider.


I only observed wing deformation at the hive after my second OAV treatment.. but I never sat right at entrance for 15 minutes to observe bee's exiting for this long neither.


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## johng (Nov 24, 2009)

beenoob said:


> Im ok with bee death, its the thought that I could be better at prevention that caused it, which Im looking to improve, being newer at this.


With this attitude I'm sure you will make a fine beekeeper. It's a big learning curve. Quite a bit bigger than raising other animals and gardening in my opinion. Learn from your mistakes and keep on keeping.


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## BigBlackBirds (Aug 26, 2011)

Not uncommon to see varroa damaged bees in hives. Sometimes you see a lot and other times little but you've been vaporizing on regular basis so I doubt if you have much to worry about. Next year should be less stressful


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## lharder (Mar 21, 2015)

Unfortunately good intentions usually result in bad outcomes when dealing with wild and semi wild populations. Nature's way is that the strong live to reproduce. Not getting in the way of this process may be hard, but necessary. If you intervene and let weak bees live, well then you are negatively affecting other bees next year. 

Next year consider the source of your bees and if they can make a positive contribution in regards to varroa resistance in your area. This is the beginning of true concern.


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