# SHB Discussions please.



## sfisher (Sep 22, 2009)

I use the hive top feeders like the wooden ones from Brushy mnt. with the floats on each side. When these type feeders go empty the SHB cant resist getting under the floats. I place a beetle trap in the enterence of the feeder between the compartments, the traps are deadly when placed in this position.


----------



## matt1954 (Sep 8, 2010)

I believe that the SHB problem is greater than we realize. It is gaining ground in more parts of the country every year. 

I have used Roach Paste in between corrugated cardboard with some success. Coumaphos in bee pro and beetle barns, Gardstar, and Mineral Oil on the frame rests to clog the air ducts of the beetles. Still, I have them. I have not had much success with beetle traps filled with oil.


----------



## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

OK, so the OP asked to hear from other TF beekeepers about dealing with SHB. Has that happened?
Goldprospector, what final word are you looking for? The only final word that can be said is that SHB's are showing up in hives. I see them in my hives. My method for dealing with them is to keep strong hives and smash any I see when inspecting a hive. This is purely for the sport of it. Have you lost hives due to the beetle?


----------



## Solomon Parker (Dec 21, 2002)

Unlike mites, beetles are not a problem most everyone has. In fact a great deal of beekeepers do not have the problem at all. The subject is never going to receive as much attention. I don't have a problem with them, so I don't have much to say on the subject.


----------



## djdup (Jul 5, 2012)

I'm new to beekeeping and I have chosen to be treatment free and found out quick the SHB could be a problem for me. I started using the IPK Small Hive Beetle Trap. It is basically a screen bottom board with a oil pan underneath. You can check it out here... http://www.greenbeehives.com/ipk-small-hive-beetle-trap-assembled-unpainted.html
It works great. It has killed a ton of SHB's, (and mites too) and I find very few inside the hive. I will put one on every hive I have from now on. I am not try to promote anything, just showing what works for me.


----------



## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

djdup said:


> I'm new to beekeeping and I have chosen to be treatment free and found out quick the SHB could be a problem for me.


Please explain.


----------



## UTvolshype (Nov 26, 2012)

I'm trying a bag of lime under my 2 hives to change the pH of the soil and harden up the surface. No luck with the oil in homemade trap. Now trying Roach Paste in side a cd jewel box with holes cut in the side. All of my SHBs are running on the frames with uncapped honey. Soil is clay so it's very acidic with loose forest topsoil under the hives. It has harden up the top of the soil right now but the SHB grubs are a warm weather problem so I will dump another bag in May.


----------



## Solomon Parker (Dec 21, 2002)

That's very interesting, I'm keen to hear about that. Do you have acidic soils in your location?


----------



## jrbbees (Apr 4, 2010)

I think the final word is that if you don't have them yet, you will unless you live where it gets so cold enough over winter it keeps them killed out. Be thankful that part of their life cycle is outside of the hive. 

I think in the end they will kill many weak hives and this will be a problem for nucs and swarms. I beleive that traps will be our only hope until some bio agent like certian that will not affect the bees or the honey is found.


----------



## djdup (Jul 5, 2012)

Barry said:


> Please explain.



I installed my first 2 Nucs into 10 frame deeps with new foundation early this summer. Being new and curious I would check the hives every couple of days and I would see more SHB every time I checked. After the 5th week there were hundreds of SHB on the frames, larvae crawling everywhere. I could literally go to my hives in the evening and swat the SHB with my ball cap as they fly in the entrance. I was worried my bees would abscond. I don't know if it is just South Mississippi climate or just the area I placed the hives but I felt my hives were being over run with the beetles. I installed the SBB with the oil tray I mentioned in my post above. In the first couple of days I had to clean them out it had so many dead beetles and larvae. Every week there would be less and less. All I know is it worked for me and it was after I got the SHB under control the bees filled out a 2nd deep box in no time.


----------



## millerdrr (Dec 5, 2012)

My soil in a garden about 100 feet in front of some of my hives is mostly red clay, pH checked in at around 5.5 with a cheap Burpee tester last spring. Most of the property consists of unmowed pasture that held livestock a few decades ago. I've never seen a small hive beetle, and I don't think my in-laws on the property have had any pests in their hives, although they do treat for mites in the fall.

EDIT: I'm not sure if the SHB has arrived in my area yet. I might have overlooked them, been lucky, or they may be coming soon.


----------



## beeman2009 (Aug 23, 2012)

GP,

SHB are a big problem here in TN. In fact, the biggest problem I have to deal with. I use food/feed grade diatemateous earth as a dust around my hives, app a 10' radius 2 - 3 times a year just before a rain or wet the ground afterwards in late evening. It kills the larvae in the ground. Inside the hives I use bettle traps with hydrated lime instead of oil, higher kill ratio. That's usually about it as the DE is so effective the numbers inside the hive are small.


----------



## Belewsboy (Jun 6, 2012)

Millerdrr...
I started 2 hives w/ packages in April. My hives were in mainly shady area. By May, I could stand in front of my hives and watch them fly in. Bought oil traps which didn't do much. Finally moved to full sun, removed any unoccupied frames and added them back only when needed. Bee population grew like crazy. Problem almost went away completely. I'd see a couple every now and then, but very few. Added 2 more hives and to this day SHB's have not been a problem. My neighbor has had a couple of nucs overrun with them. You are only a few miles from me...pretty sure they are in your area...you've just been lucky.


----------



## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

We don't have them in my country but I've done a lot of research incase they get here. I also went to Australia for a look. For a small beekeeper with time to manage it, my reading, is a screened BB with oil tray underneath gets the best reviews from users. Other methods get good reviews and bad reviews.

The way I've read it, when the beetles move around the hive the bees harrass them and screened BBd's designed to encourage the beetles to escape down through and into the oil work best, also takes advantage of the larvaes natural desire to escape downwards to find a quiet place to pupate. There are many success stories of people with major problems who got it cleaned up using a screened bb and oil pan.

If beetles get here, that's what I'll be doing. Not sure how the oil pan is regarded here on the TF forum although sticky boards for mite counting are accepted so similar principle.


----------



## millerdrr (Dec 5, 2012)

Belewsboy said:


> Millerdrr...
> I started 2 hives w/ packages in April. My hives were in mainly shady area. By May, I could stand in front of my hives and watch them fly in. Bought oil traps which didn't do much. Finally moved to full sun, removed any unoccupied frames and added them back only when needed. Bee population grew like crazy. Problem almost went away completely. I'd see a couple every now and then, but very few. Added 2 more hives and to this day SHB's have not been a problem. My neighbor has had a couple of nucs overrun with them. You are only a few miles from me...pretty sure they are in your area...you've just been lucky.


All of ours are in full sun and facing south, with the exception of the two best (which are also the oldest). Those two are in the center of an open field, in the middle of a small group of trees and briars. Those two are also the most difficult to work; lifting the cover will get you stung repeatedly. They came from swarms from our own hives about a decade ago; I imagine the supercedure queens are to blame, since the old queen would be long gone by now.

My in-laws almost never open their hives, and I'm a newbee at inspecting mine. I guess it's a possibility that the hives that are dying out are doing so before we get a chance to see the pests. I've placed blame on starvation, but as soon as I get a chance, I'm going to see if mites are in my hive. I've tried six times in three years in my backyard (no sun until almost noon); only one is still alive, hanging on by a thread. I had to start feeding at Thanksgiving; I figured they hadn't foraged enough. They might do a lot better if I moved them to the other side of the hill, with the others...


----------



## DJS (May 7, 2012)

beeman2009 said:


> GP,
> 
> SHB are a big problem here in TN. In fact, the biggest problem I have to deal with. I use food/feed grade diatemateous earth as a dust around my hives, app a 10' radius 2 - 3 times a year just before a rain or wet the ground afterwards in late evening. It kills the larvae in the ground. Inside the hives I use bettle traps with hydrated lime instead of oil, higher kill ratio. That's usually about it as the DE is so effective the numbers inside the hive are small.



Beeman2009 
You said you are using hydrated lime insteed of oil to treat for SHB, what ratio of lime to water are you using? and have you tried it in a SBB trap?


----------



## beeman2009 (Aug 23, 2012)

DJS,

I use it dry. Just put about 1/2 " lime in trap. Make sure to clean trap thoroughly before putting into hive. I've not tried the SBB traps yet, have you used them? I've been looking at them. We'll see.


----------



## DJS (May 7, 2012)

Beeman
I have used the SBB oil traps with great results killing using veg oil but gets costely changing oil every week or so. Are you using garden lime? 
How does dry lime kill them? I know the oil coats breathing tubes.


----------



## beeman2009 (Aug 23, 2012)

DJS,

The dry limes burns them up almost as soon as they come in contact with it. I buy mine from our local CO-OP. Sometimes it is refered to as hydrated lime & sometimes as dehydrated lime. Not sure if there is truely a difference or not, just know both have worked for me. Also if you go to FatBeeMans website he has a video on making bettle traps that are dirt cheap & work great. Go to youtube and search FineShooter. Should find his easily.


----------



## rmcpb (Aug 15, 2012)

Over here we get kitchen wipes called Chux. I put them over the frames in my hives and they catch LOTS of beetles initially then the number drops off as the population is lowered. Problem is you lose a few bees which can get caught in them but I am trying the CD case trap with the wipes in them to see if they are effective and saves the bees.


----------



## Michael_C (May 22, 2012)

rmcpb said:


> Over here we get kitchen wipes called Chux. I put them over the frames in my hives and they catch LOTS of beetles initially then the number drops off as the population is lowered. Problem is you lose a few bees which can get caught in them but I am trying the CD case trap with the wipes in them to see if they are effective and saves the bees.


Are the Chux dry or do you put something on them or are they already wet with something..How does it work?


----------



## rmcpb (Aug 15, 2012)

They are used dry. I generally give them a good knock around to get them fluffy as the beetles are physically caught by the fluff on their spines. Just need to stop catching bees, hence the trial in the CD cases.


----------



## Michael_C (May 22, 2012)

rmcpb said:


> They are used dry. I generally give them a good knock around to get them fluffy as the beetles are physically caught by the fluff on their spines. Just need to stop catching bees, hence the trial in the CD cases.


Thanks, sounds like you are on to something! I may have to find a source for Chux. I had never heard of it.


----------



## rmcpb (Aug 15, 2012)

In the kitchen cleaning area of the supermarket usually with the sponges. They are very thin, blue cloths called Chux Superwipes and come in 10 packs.


----------



## DJS (May 7, 2012)

beeman2009 said:


> DJS,
> 
> The dry limes burns them up almost as soon as they come in contact with it. I buy mine from our local CO-OP. Sometimes it is refered to as hydrated lime & sometimes as dehydrated lime. Not sure if there is truely a difference or not, just know both have worked for me. Also if you go to FatBeeMans website he has a video on making bettle traps that are dirt cheap & work great. Go to youtube and search FineShooter. Should find his easily.


I will try to find some Hydrated lime all I have seen is powdered garden lime or pellets. I could see where lime would be safer then oil to use, less chance of spilling out of traps on bees, also wonder if you can clean the lime that you use in SBB tray by running it through a filter of some sort. 
DJS


----------



## beeman2009 (Aug 23, 2012)

DJS,

Have not tried to filter the lime as it is pretty cheap but I don't see why you couldn't use a strainer to filter out SHB & reuse it. Think I will try that this year and see what happens. Thanks for the idea.


----------



## Goldprospector (May 17, 2012)

Barry said:


> OK, so the OP asked to hear from other TF beekeepers about dealing with SHB. Has that happened?
> Goldprospector, what final word are you looking for? The only final word that can be said is that SHB's are showing up in hives. I see them in my hives. My method for dealing with them is to keep strong hives and smash any I see when inspecting a hive. This is purely for the sport of it. Have you lost hives due to the beetle?


I believe I have lost one hive to Beeltle infestation and Another local guy seems to believe he has lost 4 due to beetle problems.
Noone can really say for sure what makes a hive abscond, but when there are tons of beetles in the hive, with fermented honey..I really think that is what happened.


----------



## Goldprospector (May 17, 2012)

Solomon Parker said:


> That's very interesting, I'm keen to hear about that. Do you have acidic soils in your location?


I have some hives under Pine trees which is acidic due to the pine needles, the ground is extremely hard clay. Can't really even dig it with a mattock. No SHB's in those hives...even a weak one doen to 3 frames of bees.


----------



## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

*SHB vulnerability when larvae leave the hive*

I'm wondering if frost depth isn't pivital in survivability of the small hive beetle. Upon departure from the hive the larva wander for 3 or 4 days. During that time, they have been reported to travel more than 100 meters. They then burrow 2-8 inches (5-20cm) under the surface where they pupate. In the Southern USA, frost does not penetrate very deep into the soil and won't kill the beetle in its final steps of maturation underground. 

Average frost depth in my area is one inch. That leaves the beetle's life cycle untouched by frost. Up North, frost can penetrate up to three or four feet. If you look at the majority of reports, beekeepers with high SHB populations are most often in the South or border the South. Those with less tend to be reporting from areas with more cold. Has anyone seen literature reporting a correlation between cold and smaller SHB populations?


I have found this article very informative in understanding and dealing with the SHB.

I am affectively muzzled in the TF forum, so can't say how I treat the ground under my apiary. Read between the lines.


----------



## rmcpb (Aug 15, 2012)

*Re: SHB vulnerability when larvae leave the hive*

The CD case adaption for the Chux trap worked. I opened my hives yesterday and had a look and there were no beetles wandering around. However, the traps had a few in them but the bonus was that there were no trapped bees


----------



## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

*Re: SHB vulnerability when larvae leave the hive*



rmcpb said:


> They are used dry. I generally give them a good knock around to get them fluffy as the beetles are physically caught by the fluff on their spines. Just need to stop catching bees, hence the trial in the CD cases.





rmcpb said:


> The CD case adaption for the Chux trap worked. I opened my hives yesterday and had a look and there were no beetles wandering around. However, the traps had a few in them but the bonus was that there were no trapped bees


Try placing one in the screened bottom board, might be cheaper, easier then oil.


----------



## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

*Re: SHB vulnerability when larvae leave the hive*



FlowerPlanter said:


> Try placing one in the screened bottom board, might be cheaper, easier then oil.


I think you mean in the oil tray beneath the screen(?)....interesting thought.

Ed


----------



## Tom Davidson (Mar 20, 2012)

beeman2009 said:


> GP,
> 
> SHB are a big problem here in TN. In fact, the biggest problem I have to deal with. I use food/feed grade diatemateous earth as a dust around my hives, app a 10' radius 2 - 3 times a year just before a rain or wet the ground afterwards in late evening. It kills the larvae in the ground. Inside the hives I use bettle traps with hydrated lime instead of oil, higher kill ratio. That's usually about it as the DE is so effective the numbers inside the hive are small.


Beeman, I'm getting ready to deploy diatemaceous earth after a recent sliming of 5 nucs. How heavy should the application be? Would DE hurt insect-eating nematodes that could wipe these pupating beetles? What kind of traps do you use, and is hydrated lime considered a chemical?


----------



## GeorgiaBasser (Apr 29, 2013)

Beeman2009, I still don't follow how your applying the lime. If you're not using a sbb, then are you just placing 1/2" lime on top of your solid bottom board? Doesn't the lime burn the bees up too?


----------



## Rusty Hills Farm (Mar 24, 2010)

GeorgiaBasser~There are a variety of traps available that hang between the frames. Usually they get filled with oil. It sounds like Beeman fills his with lime instead. Personally I use oil-filled trays beneath screened bottom boards. Works great. Another kind of trap that can use lime is really easy and cheap to do. You can see videos on how it works on the FatBeeMan YouTube site http://www.youtube.com/user/fineshooter?feature=mhee

HTH

Rusty


----------

