# How to feed a swarm



## machado11 (Mar 29, 2015)

Hi all , I just caught a swarm and I would like to know do you feed them like if you just bought a package and until they stop taking the sugar water?
Thanks, John


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

*Re: HOW TO FEED A SWARM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*

I would not feed them at this time of year in your location unless they appear lethargic.


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## ABK (May 9, 2016)

*Re: HOW TO FEED A SWARM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*

WHY DOES EVERY THREAD YOU START SOUND LIKE AN ABSOLUTE EMERGENCY OMMMGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Richard Cryberg (May 24, 2013)

1. How big was the swarm? Big difference depending on size. One pound of bees needs a lot more help than five pounds.
2. Did you put them on drawn comb or foundation? Drawn comb gives the swarm a huge advantage.
3. What is you local nectar flow like the next four weeks? Big difference between low flow and strong flow.
4. What is the mite count by an alcohol wash? If the count is higher than 2/100 bees you need to get the mite count down if it was a big swarm. With high mite counts feeding is of less help.
5. Is the queen any good? You may well need to requeen if the bees do not supersede her fairly fast. She is probably an old queen, past her prime for egg laying, which will slow the hive down. In such a case feeding will not help so much.

In other words way too many unanswered questions to make any sensible suggestions on feeding.


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## ABK (May 9, 2016)

Is there actual evidence that every swarm caught usually has an old queen that will produce worse and survive worse than a swarm with an introduced queen from a far away apiary? I've always wondered why people recommend requeening a swarm. That's like finding a hundred dollar bill and exchanging it for a 20.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>That's like finding a hundred dollar bill and exchanging it for a 20.

That's my view of the world. Some people have other models of the world...


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## Richard Cryberg (May 24, 2013)

ABK said:


> Is there actual evidence that every swarm caught usually has an old queen that will produce worse and survive worse than a swarm with an introduced queen from a far away apiary? I've always wondered why people recommend requeening a swarm. That's like finding a hundred dollar bill and exchanging it for a 20.


No every swarm does not have an old queen. Some even have virgins. Also, some two or three year old queens are still fine. But, most are pure junk. The OP already made mistake one by even catching the swarm. Good chance the swarm will prove to have swarmy genetics and be a miserable honey producer as a result. But, that was not his question. He asked about feeding. The answers to the questions I asked can guide what I would suggest he do. I gave him advice aimed at deciding if they need feeding and all you have done is pick on him for his post and ***** about my response. Do you have anything useful to help the man?

By the way, if the queen is a virgin he really needs to requeen as for sure she is obviously proven genetic junk.

How good are swarms? Not very. Most fail in the first winter in the wild.

Most of my queens trace to southern stock raised in GA or LA. They have done just fine in Ohio. Where do you come up with the idea such queens are bad? Pure nonsense.

Requeening is more like swapping a one dollar bill for a thirty dollar bill most of the time. I would not even give a dollar for a swarm queen from my own hives, much less some unknown possibly feral junk. When I bother to catch a swarm from my own hives, which is seldom, the first thing I do is pinch the queen and replace her with one I have raised myself. A few years of doing that and I seldom have a hive swarm. I also kill the new queen in a hive that swarms and give them a decent queen, again one I raised.


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## Fishmaster50 (Apr 30, 2015)

Wow! Was at a queen raising seminar a few weeks ago (speaker was from western Ohio) and he said he'd give 200$ for a swarm than buy a package from south. Has proof that ankle biting genetics is in the feral colonies there. It was a big part of the state too. His biggest thing was to stop bringing in package bees from south cuz it is messing up the good genetics that are already here. Take for what it's worth!


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## c-bees (Jun 1, 2017)

Usually when I want to catch a reachable swarm, the first thing is to mix 1:1 sugar water in a spray bottle and heavily mist them. This makes them sticky and less likely to take flight if the branch gets shaken, etc...They also seem to mellow out and clean the syrup off of themselves/each other. Then I can go about finding the appropriate frames/boxes/location for them. I usually have at least some drawn comb to start a swarm off with, even if it's a crappy partially drawn thing or a frame in the freezer from a deadout that might even still have some honey/pollen. 

Then the remaining syrup in the spray bottle gets sprayed right into the cells of the drawn comb. I have also just poured dry sugar into cells of drawn comb and sprayed warmish water onto that, making a kind of slurry right on the frame. 

If you don't have drawn comb to spray syrup into, or if you just think that's a goofy thing to do, you can also just use a paper clip or small finishing nail or something and poke a dozen holes or so into the plastic lid of a butter tub, yogurt container or whatever, pour syrup into it, flip it upside down on the frames. Unless the holes you poked are too big, no syrup will come out, but they can easily drink the syrup. You need to use another nuc/hive body or something as a "feeder ring" so you can put your syrup container in it, then your roof goes on top of the feeder ring/shim thingy. 

You can also just pour syrup into a zip-lock baggie, set it on the top bars of the frames and prick holes in it with a safety pin or whatever. You need a feeder ring/shim for that too.....


Depending on the status of the flow, you might want to be careful how you feed a swarm. You might need a robber guard, you might not want to feed at all. I've had big established hives rob a swarm nuc mercilessly because they smelled syrup. And remember, you can have a dearth during a flow. A couple years ago in May we had rain every day for like 10 days or more. Just enough to wash nectar out of flowers, then the sun would pop out and the foragers had slim pickings. So they started robbing a bunch of nucs I had made up a week earlier with swarm cells and gave a bunch of syrup to, thinking it was safe to feed weak nucs during a flow.


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## dtrooster (Apr 4, 2016)

ha. Dude cracks me up. Hive swarms because a queen is drying up? Think about what your saying, a ball of bees the size of a basketball came from trash bees. Bwahaha


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## machado11 (Mar 29, 2015)

LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## dtrooster (Apr 4, 2016)

Nobody can answer your question because it's entirely dependent on swarm size and available forage. A swarm has all the tools to get it done from waxbuilding , nursing, foraging. A check in a few days should answer questions. The hive on the left was a small swarm last year still jamming never fed a drop and its been raped and pillaged for brood, comb and over 100#s of honey since the end of April. The hive on the right, big swarm, has those boxes 75% full with no feed in about a month. Situations are different, use some common sense and it'll work out.


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## lowhog (May 5, 2015)

I just caught a basketball sized swarm today and put them in a box with new foundation. feeders on top with 1to1 water & cane sugar. A 95 year old keep that won national and global awards for his honey told me when you catch a swarm feed them. He was a keep for 80 years and his word is gospel.


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

I'll take a feral swarm over those lazy packaged bees/queens any day. 
I caught a swarm last year the size of a basketball in late May. By fall they were split four times and overwintered well. Sold two of those hives to a local beekeeper who split them once already this spring. 
Never fed, never requeened.


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## ABK (May 9, 2016)

lol yeah I figured I'm not the only one to laugh at cryberg's categorical lectures. Seems like he just likes to go against every common sense tactic. Of course he might be convinced it works for him, since bees are so resilient that they'll recover from even the worst management practices. I guess enjoy keeping your bees however you like! 

And as for advice to the OP, lowhog's 95 year old beekeeper's advice sounds pretty solid. Might not be a scientifically proven thing, but if it's always worked for him, why go against the flow? With that, I think I'll feed every swarm I catch. Even if it's just to help them build comb. If you think about it, the foragers have to fly out hundreds of yards or more to get a sip of nectar and bring it back to make comb, whereas you can just have the syrup ready for them to quickly go back and forth and build up frames. Sound advice.


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## lowhog (May 5, 2015)

It was solid advice in Minnesota. If you catch a swarm in June its possible we can see our first frost in early September. We winter colonies in at the least 2 deeps here. June they are already a month behind a newly installed package.


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## ABK (May 9, 2016)

I believe it. Last year I caught my swarm June 2nd. Fed it quite a bit, and it was still just 2 deeps going into winter, and the top deep wasn't exactly full either. Then at some point in January or February, a vole chewed through the opening in the entrance reducer and got in. Chewed through some combs probably. Nevertheless, the hive made it and has probably more than 10 frames of brood by now.


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## lowhog (May 5, 2015)

I started with a 3# package and a 4 frame nuc 3 years ago and haven't purchased a single bee since nock on wood.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

I caught a swarm May 1st and have been feeding them 1: 1 with HBH. I have already pulled 1 mini nuc split from them and still have 5 frames full of brood and 7 frames of drawn comb starting from foundation and the cut out comb from the trap. Our main flow is over here in Richmond VA so I plan to keep feeding in the hopes I will be able to pull two more splits off in July. Do what you think is right. They are your bees.


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