# first time grafting results good or bad?, questions



## tazke (Mar 23, 2015)

Last Sun we finally got around to trying grafting. We have two frames with wax cups we made, 12 per bar, we only used the top two bars.

We didn't fill the bottom rows so we have about 50% made into cells, is that about what one should expect?

Some of the cells seem a little small to me but I don't have enough experience to know for sure, what do you think?

I want to open one up and see how much RJ is inside.
How much should be in the cell? 1/32nd, 1/16th, 1/8th inch?
If it is not very much should I scrap them and try again?

I was thinking I would use the largest ones in my Queen Castles (2 Frame), thoughts on putting more than one per? 2, 3?

Since they are capped should I move them now or wait a few days?

Thanks


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## USMCEOD (Jan 5, 2014)

50% is better than I have done... (haven't had a graft take in 2 times of trying yet). I'd go for it and see what happens you'll know in 3 weeks or so if they are good or not... but if you toss them you won't know.... just saying. But that is a great effort for someone who has only had bees for less than a year or so... Good job buddy.. hang in there.. I bet you have a good wife that supports your efforts as well...


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## burns375 (Jul 15, 2013)

Heres a pic for you. 1 day and 2 day after grafting. The only thing that is a bit odd is usually my cells are covered with bees, did you brush them off. The cells look average size. You will likely lose a few more from the time they are capped to hatch. 50% is not bad, I average about 80% take rate. Priming cells has really helped my success.


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## tazke (Mar 23, 2015)

Thanks a bunch, I think I will order and try some cups now that I know we can have some success


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

U


burns375 said:


> Heres a pic for you. 1 day and 2 day after grafting. The only thing that is a bit odd is usually my cells are covered with bees, did you brush them off. The cells look average size. You will likely lose a few more from the time they are capped to hatch. 50% is not bad, I average about 80% take rate. Priming cells has really helped my success.


What do you prime with a how much per cell? What temp is your priming substance?


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

You should remove them before they are hatch. Has 14
days passed yet? They are about to hatch I assume.
Pick the biggest queen you can find. Yes, it is better
to use the clear plastic cups to see the RJ inside.
Once they fill up the cup then there is a chance of a good
queen being made.

I use RJ to prime the cells at room temperature or ~80F.
Just a small drop enough to hold the larva afloat will do.
Make sure to put a bit more so that the larva will not dry out.
And use a damp towel to cover them too.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Two things that will probably help you...

1) Make your cell builder stronger. 
2) When you are grafting use a sharp knife to cut down the comb on the frame you are taking your grafts from - it will make it much easier and quicker. Quicker and easier will improve the take.

Practice makes perfect. Or at least better.


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## burns375 (Jul 15, 2013)

I use distilled water at 90f. I make sure the bar and cups are warm too (not sure if that matters or not) I have a very small brush used for grafting and put a very small drop in each cup, then i brush the bottom of the cup to distribute the water. The water helps the larva slide off the china tool that I prefer. I also dip the tool in a cup of water every couple grafts. 

Cutting the cells down definitely helps too.


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

I think a big mistake I made was simply spraying on room temp water. My graft cells were at room temp as well 
Is heating the bar and water necessary? I would expect that the spray of water goes back to room temp pretty quickly.

Do you simply mist the bar or actually put a drop of water in each cup before placing a larva?
Thanks.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Where are all the bees?


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

I mist room temp cells with room temp water and get about 80% take. That's not the problem. It just takes practice.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

All the bees got brushed off to see the
RJ better. Mine are all over the bar and the 
cups with Rj in them.

It is not necessary to heat the bar or the water. I just turn
on a small heater to raise the room temperature a bit. The damp
cloth definitely helps to keep the cells and the comb frame from drying out. 
Not sure why you need to spray with water. The bar stay dry only prime the cups with Rj mixed with a bit of water. 
Then deposit the larva into the cell cup.


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

A half bucket of 94 degree F water inside the grafting tent keeps the towel and the spray bottle warm for about 1 to 3 frames, depending on your speed. Wring out the towel right over the bucket. Spray and cover the grafts as you go. I'm going to try and see if RJ + water in the spray bottle helps increase take.

Warmed frames do increase % take, but, as others mention, practice, cutting the comb down, speed, and colony strength help a lot more.


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## Smoke'm (Feb 25, 2012)

If the hive in the background is your queenless cell builder you need more bees, way more. The bees should not all fit in the box. You should look at them and know they would swarm if only they had a queen to leave with. 
I have never bothered priming cups. I just use a couple of damp towels and try to work fast. I graft in a sunny spot in the yard. I changed from queenless cell builders to Cloake boards this past year with great sucess. I found them to produce better cells and be less work to maintain for the season. Cell builders are almost always fed syrup and always have pollen substitute.
Good luck producing batches of great queens cells. It is an art and I hope you enjoy learning I still am.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

If the high hudimity and temperature will help then I'm considering
about grafting inside a glove box. A fish tank therometer with an aquarium pump on an
air stone inside a canning jar will help with this set up. Maybe a Halloween fogger will do too. 
There is no need to be in a hurry since the environment is pretty much constant for a while until the grafting is done. 
Good idea guys to get my creative juices flowing. 

Smoke'm, when do you remove the cloak board to unite them? Do you wait until you see the 
capped cells or until you see the cells have Rjelly in them?


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## Smoke'm (Feb 25, 2012)

Cloake board goes in the day before you graft. Same time the cell cups go in to be cleaned. It gets pulled the day after you graft.


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