# Assembling Level Hive Boxes



## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

I build my own boxes and assemble them upside down on a hard flat bench then trim the bottom on a table saw once assembled


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## dynemd (Aug 27, 2013)

Where did you pick up the "precut boxes"? Mine don't have a 1/2" gap, and if they did I would return them. Is there a gap when you place them on a perfectly flat surface? Are they perfectly squared?


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## DeezBeez (Mar 14, 2013)

The boxes are commercial grade or less. Some batches are better than others.


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

The Hive and The Honeybee gives 9 19/32 as the correct depth for a deep box. This is not correct for 9 1/8 frames. Most manufacturers make either 9 5/8 or 9 1/2 deeps. The 9 5/8 boxes always turn out with 1/2 inch bee space. I trim these down on my tablesaw to give the correct bee space.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

DeezBeez said:


> After assembling my precut deep boxes, I measured the boxes and they are 1/8" taller than spec. The second deep box on top creates 1/2" space.
> 
> Chris


1/8" taller than the description in the catalog? Or what? I'm not sure I understand.

The outside dimensions should ensure that the inside dimensions create the bee space between components necessary to keep some parts from getting too glued together.

I'm not sure where this space occurs when you stack boxes. At one corner? Can you explain more, please?


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## kaizen (Mar 20, 2015)

if you are ocd then I understand but 1/8 inch aint gonna make much difference in a packed hive. not worth messing with it in my opinion. you're not making furniture and a normal box probably moves that much in humidity normally


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## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

dynemd said:


> Where did you pick up the "precut boxes"? Mine don't have a 1/2" gap, and if they did I would return them. Is there a gap when you place them on a perfectly flat surface? Are they perfectly squared?


I think deezbeez is referring to having 1/2" space between top of the frame and bottom of next. rather than 3/8. Not between the boxes them selves!


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## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

I agree with Kaizen. That extra space is not going to amount to a hill of beans in the grand scheme of things.


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## Billboard (Dec 28, 2014)

You can get a wood plane to get the boxes to lay flat on each other. Using a plane is faster than sanding. I make my own boxes and once glued i plane off little by little to lay flat. But if the woods cut straight it should be square once put together. Somethings off on the cut.


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## Outdoor N8 (Aug 7, 2015)

I'm with Billboard, I delve into hand wood working tools some (need a tennoner?) . Nothing beats a properly honed, hand plane for removing wood with the grain.


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

Most commercial boxes have too much space between the deeps, with the result that you get lots of drone brood in the gap. Don't know why, but a 9 5/8" box and 9 1/8" frames leaves 1/2". I guess the assumption is that the boxes will shrink, but properly kiln dried lumber will GROW, not shrink as it equalizes to ambient, at least here.

Anyway, I'd not sweat it.

As for crooked boxes, I use a pipe clamp to get them tight and have very few problems, so long as I cut the parts straight and keep my box joint jig perfectly square. Any deviations from square either with the boards or the box joints will give you "rocking" boxes, and they are very hard to flatten. Fortunately, the weight of full supers does the job after a year or so.

Peter.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Fusion_power said:


> The Hive and The Honeybee gives 9 19/32 as the correct depth for a deep box. This is not correct for 9 1/8 frames. Most manufacturers make either 9 5/8 or 9 1/2 deeps. The 9 5/8 boxes always turn out with 1/2 inch bee space. I trim these down on my tablesaw to give the correct bee space.


You will regret that after the box is about 20 years old. They will have shrunk to 9 1/4" or less.
I had to add 3/8" to all my 11 5/8" deep boxs.


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## DeezBeez (Mar 14, 2013)

Sqkcrk, The boxes don't sit flat and gap between boxes more than usual with this batch. I'm starting to think this wood is a mix of different cut runs from the supplier as the finger joints wont fit without using a utility knife and a few sides are warped causing a few tight frames inside the box. Nothing that can't be remedied. 

The woodenware suppliers cut the boards taller. Perhaps they do this as its easier to cut trim than it is to add "trim". I was wondering if trimming the bottom and top of the boxes a hair would help level out the gaps, especially in some of the corners and minimize bridge comb between the double deeps.


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## Billboard (Dec 28, 2014)

Yes trim the bottoms. Lay the box on the ground it will rock on the 2 high corners. Take a plane and plane both hi corners .after a couple shaves check for flatness. Continue till it lays flat. Very easy fix.


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## DeezBeez (Mar 14, 2013)

Lol, not ocd Kaizen. Just asking if others cut boxes to size for any good reasons. The boxes, i suspect, are the left over inventory from multiple manufacturers.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

DeezBeez said:


> Sqkcrk, The boxes don't sit flat and gap between boxes more than usual with this batch. I'm starting to think this wood is a mix of different cut runs from the supplier as the finger joints wont fit without using a utility knife and a few sides are warped causing a few tight frames inside the box. Nothing that can't be remedied.
> 
> The woodenware suppliers cut the boards taller. Perhaps they do this as its easier to cut trim than it is to add "trim". I was wondering if trimming the bottom and top of the boxes a hair would help level out the gaps, especially in some of the corners and minimize bridge comb between the double deeps.


Firewood. That's what you get for going cheap. You pay for what you get. And you get what you pay for. Quality doesn't cost, it pays.


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

> You will regret that after the box is about 20 years old. They will have shrunk to 9 1/4" or less. I had to add 3/8" to all my 11 5/8" deep boxes.


ODFrank, I'm in a more humid environment. My boxes expand after 20 years. As I recondition them, I use the table saw to shave them to the correct height and re-paint the edges so they don't decay over time. I overhauled about a dozen deeps this past spring and had to adjust most of them a bit.

I insist on a proper bee space in my equipment. 9 5/8 is too deep. I trim them to the right height to leave 5/16 inch from frame bottom to frame top. This is why I make my own frames and usually make my own equipment.


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## DeezBeez (Mar 14, 2013)

sqkcrk said:


> Firewood. That's what you get for going cheap. You pay for what you get. And you get what you pay for. Quality doesn't cost, it pays.


10-4 to that!


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

DeezBeez said:


> I'm starting to think this wood is a mix of different cut runs from the supplier as the finger joints wont fit without using a utility knife and a few sides are warped causing a few tight frames inside the box. Nothing that can't be remedied.


This is what I was thinking. It can be remedied by loosening up the finger joints by taking a skim cut off each finger for one side and assembling the box on a flat surface. This would require a router or table saw. I would recommend using construction adhesive instead of glue and that will fill any gap in the fingers. I have found all kinds of variations in bee equipment, frames and boxes and I have just purchased premium grade equipment. If you purchase utility grade you are going to have to do some rework to make things right or let the bees make up the differences.
Believe it or not the easiest way to make an assembled box flat is to mimic a table sander. Mount very coarse sandpaper to a flat surface, put the box on top with slight down pressure and move the box in an orbital motion. You pretty much have to do both top and bottom of the box because if the bottom doesn't set flat the top doesn't either. Depending on the routed depth of the frame landing you may have to rework that also so the frames do not rise above the top of the box. If the frame landing is not reworked the bee space will vary by however much was taken off the box to get it to set flat.

By far the easiest modification would be to loosen up the finger joints and fill the gap with construction adhesive. That is what I would do.


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## DeezBeez (Mar 14, 2013)

Acebird said:


> By far the easiest modification would be to loosen up the finger joints and fill the gap with construction adhesive. That is what I would do.


Well it certainly takes patience. Thats pretty much what i am going to do. Got a winter storm bearing down on us this weekend so i don't mind fixing these boxes up at this time. I would almost consider buying lumber and cutting proper fitting finger joints etc. I know the weight, once estabished with drawn comb and bees will help lay the boxes flat. I do need to plane the corner joints since one board is not flush with the other. 

Next time i will take more time to inspect the wood before buying regardless of how it inconveniences others. I would have opted for premium grade if it was available at the time.


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## larryh (Jul 28, 2014)

You could have perfect cuts and perfectly flush corners, but if a board has a twist to it, it'll make the box twist (rock).
Twisted boards make twisted boxes.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

DeezBeez said:


> I do need to plane the corner joints since one board is not flush with the other.


Loosen the finger joint so it will set flat on a common surface. I have been filling gaps as large as 1/8 inch in stairways and it is making them rock solid whereas before they would squeak and squawk like crazy. For twisted boards keep the top surface true so the frames rest properly and let the bottom go where ever it wants.


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## DeezBeez (Mar 14, 2013)

I was assembling some more boxes this morning and when I selected the next 4 boards to assemble, first thing I notice is how different the grain was on one of the short front/back boards. That was my first clue that this stock of woodenware is one of two things; wood from different suppliers and/or wood from a different batch/cut run. I'm leaning towards two different suppliers. When I attempted to assemble the board there was know way the joints were going to come together without some major finger trims... fair amount at that. I measured the two boards and sure enough, one board is 9 5/8 and the short one is 9 7/16. This batch of woodenware must have gotten mixed up with another suppliers wood or its the tail end of last years stock.

Lesson learned for me. Sesame Street had it figured out long ago. "One of these is not like the other!" Buyer beware, bring a measuring tape or just stand any board in question with the other boards on a flat surface to quickly scan the height/alignment. That's if your not buying pallets of woodenware.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Contact the seller and explain what the situation is. If you aren't satisfied with whatever solution/adjustment they offer, put them on your personal "_Do Not Buy From Again_" list.


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## DeezBeez (Mar 14, 2013)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> Contact the seller and explain what the situation is. If you aren't satisfied with whatever solution/adjustment they offer, put them on your personal "_Do Not Buy From Again_" list.


Thankfully, the new seller is a good person to deal with and where I have just recently purchased this wood I'm sure they will credit/exchange it. As I started assembling the boxes, I was thinking that the whole batch can't be all this bad but after finding two different cuts this morning I will scan the rest and return to seller, or, just match the odd cuts to make a box if possible.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

As boxes age the frame rest tend to wear down meaning the frames sit a little lower on those boxes. It can et to be a pain getting them apart when an old box sits atop a newer box because the top and bottom bars get close enough to allow the bees to propolize them together so I Guess I would err towards the deeper box with the larger lower space.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

DeezBeez said:


> I was assembling some more boxes this morning and when I selected the next 4 boards to assemble, first thing I notice is how different the grain was on one of the short front/back boards.


Did you buy "as is" for a bargain price? To be miss matched so badly I would expect it was returns and old stock left over from different runs. If it was purchased at market rate with no discounts I would certainly return it for a full exchange.


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## DeezBeez (Mar 14, 2013)

Acebird said:


> Did you buy "as is" for a bargain price? To be miss matched so badly I would expect it was returns and old stock left over from different runs. If it was purchased at market rate with no discounts I would certainly return it for a full exchange.


No, i was ensured it was not bargain material and when i was loading the truck the wood looked solid.

The first 10 boxes need more work mainly so i'm not fighting jammed up frames. Frames get too tight when conditions are humid. 

Next purchase i will randomly check a few boards for specific measurements, especially when a odd color and grain board is in the mix.

Some boards had quite a bit of warp. Harder to notice unless you pay attention to a gap in the middle of the stacked boards. Couldn't close the joints on some of those but its good enough for me and the bees. Don't think the bees care too much about the architecture.


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