# Looking for a new truck



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

My 2005 F-450, 6L Diesel, is in the shop again w/ the same problem as 1 1/2 years ago. The Oil Cooler and EGR need replacing. Along w/ a new head gasket, which is preventitive work. The first time this happened was at 88,000 miles and the truck was still under warranty. I was unable to get an extended warranty. And now it has happened again after only 33,000 miles.

So, what should I be looking at? Dodge, Chevy, GMC, Ford? Or what?

A friend of mine w/ a 2008 Dodge, Straight 6 Diesel, like his, but he says he would look at a GMC before buying another Dodge. Flimsy body, he says. But, $10,000.00 less than a Ford and a tried and true engine.

W/ interest rates as low as they are, this is the time to buy new, isn't it?

Any ideas or suggestions?

I hesitate to buy Used. I don't need anyone elses problems.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

I just put the fourth transmission in my '93 Ford F-450. It doesn't work hard.
Buy Japanese - Mitsubishi, Iveco. My Mits has the same mileage with only a brake master cylinder replacement., and much more heavier day to day work. It will also turn on a dime.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Mark -

If it's a given that you need a diesel, then I'd start with who has the best engine available and work from there. Repair and maintenance on a diesel is a significant cost. "Flimsy" body perhaps not so much. I've stayed away from diesels because of the extra cost and not being able to justify it with what I do. I've not heard great reviews with the recent Ford diesels. Yes, a great time to use financing as rates are very low. I decided to trade in my older truck for a new one this year as I was in the same boat you are in. Do I dump money into fixing my 2003 or put it towards a new truck. I've been very happy with Ford SD trucks since 1999, but I've always had the V10.


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## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

There are a few shops around that are taking the bad(poor design) diesels out of the fords and putting in cummins diesels in place of them.

I've stayed away from diesels cuz I don't know how to fix them myself but gasoline engines are no problem for me. A big gas engine may not get the fuel mileage that a diesel does but in the long run the gas is cheaper than the diesel to maintain.

My 2002 gmc 3500 w/ 8.1L and a Allison trans has no problems pulling a trailer w/ bobcat and 64 heavy 1 1/2 story hives(or 700 gallons syrup in a tank). 270,000 and still running strong. I've replaced tires and oil. That's all it has needed the last 2 yrs.


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## swarm_trapper (Jun 19, 2003)

beeslave what kind of mileage are you gettin with your 8.1?


i have a 99 dodge one ton with the cummins a great truck almost 400,000 mi on it it does have a bit weaker body but if you dont over load it too bad it is fine how much are you needing to haul mark? is a small international or freightliner what you need? i have an automatic international under CDL it is a great truck for pulling honey an moving bees but the dodge is great for those smaller jobs.
Nick


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## 67630 (Jul 17, 2008)

I have a 2007.5 chevy k3500 duramax allison 4x4 12k gvw. 12ft bed. It has all the power you need. Loaded with hives pulling my 20ft trailer with skidsteer and cruises along 65mph and still gets 16mpg. empty under 70mph it will get 21-22mpg. I did put A/M exhaust and a tuner on it to get that mileage. It got 9.9 before.


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

For about 2,ooo you can buy a kit to put in a cummins. You can find a 12v (97 or 98 for around 2k,this engine can be rebuilt for 3k....will run 500,000 rebuild it nd run 500,000 more if you change oil ect. I have 98 3500 with 307,000. Before I got the freghtliner I use to go to Florida(850 mi) grossing 24 to 29,000lbs. 10 mph that heavy....14 mph at 15,000 and 18-19 empty. Run 65-70 all the way. New fords have a FORD DIESEL...while this is not a proven engine I hear lots of good reports on fuel milage(20 plus). It is still a v8...almost allother diesels are straight 6.....Ive beenlooking for a 450 or 550 ford with blown engine..want to put in a cummins!


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## beemanbob (May 28, 2010)

Seems like everyone is talking about pick ups. If you are looking for a work truck maybe you should be looking at a Freightliner M2 or a Peterbilt 330. You can get the truck rated below 26,000 lbs so you do not need a CDL B license. Also it will be the last truck you will ever have to buy. 200,000 miles and the truck is just getting broken in.


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## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

2002 GMC 3500 8.1 L- 9 mpg loaded or empty


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Have a 5.9 cumming in my Dodge 97 & have a 5.9 in my freightliner gvcw #45,000.
Have 5.9 in my case loader. Did I say 5.9 enough ?


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Here you go Mark:
http://mrtrailer.com/pictures b/DSC07824.JPG


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

suttonbeeman said:


> You can find a 12v


Take that 12V with the P pump, grind the fuel plate & torck the pump push about 500 hp to the tires and drag every chevy & ford around the block.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

I have a 2000 F350 SD w/7.3 and a 2002 450 w/7.3 cant say enough good about them, just stay away from the 6.0. Definitely not Fords best effort. Of course it is hard to beat a 5.9 unless, of course, you are talking frame avg. right Keith?


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Sorry Barry force of habit, I dont know them by any other name.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Well Jim, the old 6.9/7.3 were ok for a v-8's. You really want a straight six though.

I own cat 3406.3126 c-12, detroits but my best bang for the buck&ballls is the 12v 5.9.


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## swarm_trapper (Jun 19, 2003)

ok keith don't hold back tell us how you really feel about the 12v cummins lol. 

beeslave that is not bad mileage i might look into one of those for the next run around truck. of course just cruising around empty with the cummins i get 15mpg not too bad. 

one more thing new vs used i always thought that it was better to buy new but then i got to thinking on it and unless you need a write off for taxes i cant see why any one would get used. 
here is my math
most beekeepers that buy new will by a new truck run it for three years to 100,000 mi till the warranty is off then sell and buy new. So you will be buying that new 550 for about 40,000+$
three years latter with the 100,000mi on it it you will be lucky to get 20,000$ 
So your cost of the truck is with out fixing it (that's under warranty) per year is somewhere from 4000-7000$ that is what is lot in depreciation.

i went over my books a bit ago to see what my repair cost are and i spend about 2000-3000$ a year per truck. And for some reason my trucks break down a lot i think it is me  
the other plus to buying used is that i dont have 40,000$ tyed up in a truck i only have about 7-10,000 in a used truck so i have 30,000$ more to loose in the bees lol that buys a lot of queens and feed, instead of taking that loan out from farm credit 


just some thoughts 
Nick


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

All good points Nick and you havent even factored in sales tax, higher insurance, and the interest on the extra 20 grand. Of course the other side is one that is hard to put into numbers and that is the problems associated with having a truck break down at a really bad time; will your bees miss a feed or a super when they might really need it.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

swarm_trapper said:


> how much are you needing to haul mark?.
> Nick


W/ what I have now I haul 20 Fourway pallets of 2 story hives and pull a 9,900 gross trailer w/ a 753Bobcat on it, from NY to SC 4 or 5 trips per year and then around home to move hives into and out of orchards and then to summer yards and to do normal work in beeyards.

My F-450 has a GVWR of 16,000lbs and my traier is registered for 9,000 lbs so I don't need a CDL.

Good news from Ford. If I pay $1,500.00 on the repairs, they will cover the rest. A savings of about $3,500.00. I'll take that. A loyal customer reward.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

beemanbob said:


> Seems like everyone is talking about pick ups. If you are looking for a work truck maybe you should be looking at a Freightliner M2 or a Peterbilt 330. You can get the truck rated below 26,000 lbs so you do not need a CDL B license. Also it will be the last truck you will ever have to buy. 200,000 miles and the truck is just getting broken in.


Where does the skidsteer go? I'd feel like I would need to work more to justify that sort of set up.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Wow Barry. That's alot of truck. Where do the bees go? In the back seat?


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

sqkcrk said:


> , they will cover the rest. A savings of about $3,500.00. I'll take that. A loyal customer reward.


Mark, that's an interesting way of looking at it.

With the cheap used trucks out there right now, a person would have to have there brain examine for buying new.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Not being mechanically inclined, I'm not thrilled w/ having to have anything repaired. No matter what, I am at the mercy of whatever mechanic I find. So, at least w/ a new truck I would have a period in which repairs would be covered by a warranty.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Better order me up a CAT scan cause Im looking hard at a Dodge with a 6.7


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## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

Barry said:


> Here you go Mark:
> http://mrtrailer.com/pictures b/DSC07824.JPG


Thanks Barry,

That's what I've been looking for. Perfect for a hunting truck.


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## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

Barry said:


> Here you go Mark:
> http://mrtrailer.com/pictures b/DSC07824.JPG


Barry,
That truck looks just like mine, but my truck is a long bed, 1/2 ton, chevy, two years older, and a few other things too


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Beeslave said:


> Perfect for a hunting truck.


You mean, Deer Stand, I imagine.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

jim lyon said:


> Better order me up a CAT scan


lol, I guess if you have money to burn. The six speed & pac brake are nice, but gets less fuel milage than the 5.9

P.S. dust must be getting to Jimmy in that shop.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

swarm_trapper said:


> i always thought that it was better to buy new but then i got to thinking on it and unless you need a write off for taxes i cant see why any one would get used.


The only way buying new beats, or is equal to, buying used is if you keep the new vehicle for ten to fifteen years. The life of the vehicle basically. I did this once. Lately I've been buying new every three to four years so I don't have to deal with repairs. When I get to the point of slowing down work wise, I'll revert back to holding on to the vehicle longer.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

sqkcrk said:


> Where do the bees go? In the back seat?


No, this is your "run to the grocery store" truck.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

michael-bees said:


> a tuner on it to get that mileage. It got 9.9 before.


I have the same truck, what tuner did you put on it. Mine doesn't like the winters up here, constant check engine lights as soon as the cold weather gets here and the best i can get for mileage is 15-17 unloaded.


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## 67630 (Jul 17, 2008)

wildbranch2007 said:


> I have the same truck, what tuner did you put on it. Mine doesn't like the winters up here, constant check engine lights as soon as the cold weather gets here and the best i can get for mileage is 15-17 unloaded.


Mine does not get used in the winter so I dont have a problem with a CEL. I put on a MBRP stainless 4" system with a muffler. They dont make a setup for cab and chassis with that WB so I checked to see what the WB was on a crew long box and it very close. Dont remember now but it seems like its only a couple inches different. You will need to make it fit by cutting and changing a couple of the hangers. You have to change the exhaust before the tuner because of the dpf. Only two tuners have a dpf delete option. I bought the quadzilla cause of price. Very easy to install. I ran it on stock no dpf option at first but the mileage is better with it on the 75 hp tune. Also it has a speed limiter remover too and that is real nice. Truck used to shut off at 96 mph. Now just keeps on hauling and it drives just as good at 100 as at 60. Also I put in an egr block off plate as to keep the intake clean. Zero problems and no CEL. Empty under 70 mph 21mpg over 70 it drops fast.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

michael-bees said:


> Now just keeps on hauling and it drives just as good at 100 as at 60.


There you go Mark, you can move your bees at a 100 mph! Think of the time you'll save!!:thumbsup:


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## 67630 (Jul 17, 2008)

Barry said:


> There you go Mark, you can move your bees at a 100 mph! Think of the time you'll save!!:thumbsup:


I generally only run that fast empty. And there was that time the kid on some screaming 4 wheeler pulled out to pass me. Didnt get by me, he could only run 80.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

To keep food on the table untill a good honey crop, my son and I maintain a fleet of 10 dump trucks, mostly Mack, with a GVW of 73,000 lbs. 

As to the new vs. old controversy, that all depends how mechanical you are. A man that is good with his hands can save alot by avoiding depreciation. Some of the older non-electric motors are actually more reliable than the newer electric(computer controlled) engines. As stated earlier, avoid the EGR in the intake manifold. Yuch, Do you eat your waste? With the new Urea (bluetech?) I would definitely wait it out untill that technology is settled. Some of the systems begin to derate HP when they are out of urea. So how fun would it be in the middle of now where, and run out, and have to make it to a garage on 20 percent power(forgot exact percentage)? 

Most engine problems are cured by changing the fuel filter. Next to look at is the injectors. After that, check valve train. 95 percent of the trouble is up top. 

Engine choice? A V-8 has 5 main bearings, a straight 6 has 7. No brainer.
C-12 is good, but a wimp off-road compared to an old Mack DM motor. They had 1,400 ft lb of torque at 1,100 RPM.

Transmission? Avoid the Allisons, they suck diesel bad. I like the Eaton fuller
8 +L +LL. 4 mph at redline in LL. 

Oh wait, I have been talking about trucks. You guys are talking PICKUPS. Real trucks don't have synchros, or shift by themselves. He HE He. 

P.S. My son has his eyes on a 44,000 EW Oshkosh with a 1693 cat(4- 6' tires, looks down at Semis). Says if we chain it up, we will never get stuck in a beeyard. I say if we do get stuck. he'll have to go find a D-9(really big Cat)

Roland


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## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

sqkcrk said:


> You mean, Deer Stand, I imagine.


Not likely


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Barry said:


> No, this is your "run to the grocery store" truck.


My Transit Connect is for that. W/ ramps, I could load the Transit Connect and put it in the back of that Monster.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

roland said:


> er.
> C-12 is good, but a wimp if we do get stuck. He'll have to go find a d-9(really big cat)
> 
> roland


d-9 runs a c-15 , sister to the c-12


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

The cat c-12 and c-15 are good motors, but don't expect to find them on road in the future. If I am correct, Cat has pulled out of the on-road market. Claims it is not worth it to make the latest emissions standard. 
My point was that off-road and on-road needs are different. The old DM Macks idled at 600 and had max torque at 1100. You could poke along and get alot of power without screaming the engine. The Cats have a lighter valve train, and can spin fast(more HP), but if you enter a soft spot with the RPMs too low, you can get caught dead in the water(snub it out).

In the end, what truck you get may be more determined by the service ability of the local dealer(or yourself), than by the differences in the engineering of the vehicle.

Roland


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Roland said:


> My point was that off-road and on-road needs are different.Roland


Very well said, we, I own crawers in our heavy dirt rental business, performance of cat is hard to beat, weather it be 14 h blade or a D-11R push cat


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Ah, we're getting way off topic here. We're talking pickup trucks for Mark.
I know, it's easy to go where Tool Time Tim always goes . . . Rrrr Rrrrr Rrrrr.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

barry said:


> i know, it's easy to go where tool time tim always goes . . . Rrrr rrrrr rrrrr.


lol...


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## kopeck (May 26, 2007)

I would probably try to avoid a Ford with a 6.0 PS. I know of a few guys that have them and they haven't been a great engine. 

Funny, the 6.0 that International uses in it's own vehicals seems to be a good runner. I guess when Ford sourced them they just got the engine, no electronics, so they had to add their own.

K


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## RiodeLobo (Oct 11, 2010)

My father in law is a diesel mechanic and his favorite truck is the dodge ram diesel 2001-2006 with the 5.9L

I bought the 2500 this spring and get 19.5+ MPG(empty) but driving pretty aggressively.

I would shop around, but it took me about 3 months to find the one i eventually bought, due to the demand for this engine. You can get a good deal on one due to the economy, but they are snapped up fast. Most are gone within a day of hitting a dealer lot.

Dan


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## Barry Digman (May 21, 2003)

I don't know if they're still building these things. I climbed in one a couple of years ago an thought it was the dumbest idea in vehicles since the Hummer, but I suppose it might have a use for someone. 


http://www.topratedadventures.com/Mfg/InternationalCXT.htm


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

kopeck said:


> Funny, the 6.0 that International uses in it's own vehicals seems to be a good runner. I guess when Ford sourced them they just got the engine, no electronics, so they had to add their own.
> 
> K


It's not the electronics, it's the oil cooler and EGR. According to the Dealer, Ford kept complaining to International, but International wouldn't change the design. And the Courts wouldn't let Ford out of their contract w/ International. There must be a warehouse full of these engines somewhere. Waiting to be recycled.


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## giant pumpkin peep (Mar 14, 2009)

Barry Digman said:


> I don't know if they're still building these things. I climbed in one a couple of years ago an thought it was the dumbest idea in vehicles since the Hummer, but I suppose it might have a use for someone.
> 
> 
> http://www.topratedadventures.com/Mfg/InternationalCXT.htm


Ive seen something simalar used for pulling a large boat. Like I really large boat. It wasnt as shiny bit the same idea.


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## goldenmeadowhoney (Apr 14, 2009)

Mark, Go with a dodge 5500 gvw 19,500 with the 6.7 cummins engine, I put 40,000miles on mine in 18 months, no problems can handle the weight, i had it pulling 32,000lbs gross. the tranny tends to upshift,I just put a tuner in it, deleted the egr system, will be fully loaded hauling bees south this Sunday. See how it handles the hills in Va going down 77 

with your ford if you deleted the egr system you wouldn't have had the problems with the cooler and head gasket. with all that work done you should be good to go with your truck, 
I blew my egr cooler in my ford on interstate 81 in VA this spring

Andy Reseska


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

A. I don't want to go that big. I don't have and don't want a CDL.

B. How do you eliminate the EGR? They said that the Oil Cooler is the problem, not the EGR. The EGR goes bad because the Oil Cooler gets plugged, somehow. Which doesn't make sense to me. Why would you design a system like that and when you know about it, why wouldn't you redesign it so it wouldn't ever get plugged up?


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## Broke-T (Jul 9, 2008)

Thats what I asked the Ford service manager Today. My 2005 messed up today. 105,000 miles. Put EGR cooler and headgaskets on a cpl of years ago under warrenty. Now out of warrenty and messed up again. Ford knows they have problem and should have been repairing with something better than original equipment. But if they repair with same parts that failed this time it will do it again. I have always been a Ford person but this is really turning me off fords.

Johnny


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