# Theory behind Lemon Grass oil.



## redsnow (Dec 26, 2015)

As soon as it warms up and I can find some used boxes, I'm going to set out a couple of swarm traps.

I've been reading about lemon grass oil, thinking it must be powerful stuff, so I ordered a bottle. I was kind of let down when I first took a sniff. 

But I'm just curious, what is the "scent" supposed to do to bees? Is it supposed to smell like home, or a Queen bee's scent?


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## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

Lemon Grass oil has high concentration of citral and related compounds such as geraniol. These are all simple organic chains with distinct odors. Citral is a component of worker bees pheromone released by the Nasonov gland on the upper surface on the last segment of the abdomen. The glands secretion is a multipurpose pheromone -- it is used to orient bees to the hive entrance, and alternatively to scent mark flowers during foraging. Bees can easily be observed releasing the Nasonov scent -- a specific stance of raising their abdomens and faning their wings. When queenless bees discover an introduced queen, numerous bees will assume the Nasonov fanning position. When you shake out a hive and change its entrance, bees discovering the new way into the box will fan to orient others in the colony to the new passageway.

The queen has other pheromones, from her mandibles (QMP) and on her feet. These have different behavioral functions, such as suppressing queen cells, and encouraging larval feeding. 

The unique odor of hive is complex amalgam of forage nectar and the bees own pheromones. LGO does not mimic this, and likely masks it effectively -- why LGO can be used when combining colonies.

Numerous plant sources for Citral, geraniol and the related scents exist. Rose Geranium, cheap "teenage girls" perfume, etc. are effective.

This reference is essential:
http://honeybee.drawwing.org/book/nasonov-gland


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

The lemongrass oil emulsified into syrup makes syrup really attractive to the bees and will cause thebees to take it in and store it when syrup would not normally attract bees. For instance, bees may be taking syrup and a flowerstarts blooming and thebees quit taking the syrup and gather nectar. With lemongrass oil in the syrup, thebees keep taking it in too. I like this because the bees build up faster and build out more wax.


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

Citral, geraniol, and something from lemon essential oil (not citral) are components of the Nasanov pheromone, which is why LGO is attractive to bees. I have a recipe for swarm lure that is a mixture of Lemon grass oil, geranium oil, and lemon oil, and it appears to work pretty well.

As noted, bees use their Nasanov pheromone to guide lost bees or part of a swarm to their "home", so synthetic Nasanov pheromone will attract them to swarm traps. 

Bees are deaf, they communicate by pheromone, touching, and vibration. 

Peter


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## Dave1958 (Mar 25, 2013)

Smells like lemon pledge. All the ladies in the hive like to clean and dust


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## jadebees (May 9, 2013)

Two of the natural plant esters,( fatty acids), in lemongrass are the exact ones in nasanov pheremone. Although they are incomplete, and likely not a perfect balance, they just happen to be the ones the bees use as a marker, for a new home. It's the bees own scent compound that scout bees mark with. They ignore all the others in lemongrass. Other compounds in nasanov are used for other things, not home selection. There are published Phd. thesis's online which detail the results of breaking down nasanov into its parts, to see what does what. Interesting, and complicated.


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## redsnow (Dec 26, 2015)

Interesting! I really expected the lemon grass oil to have a "louder" smell. 

A while back the Miz made some type of cake icing, the recipe calls for grated orange peel. I could smell the grated orange peelings as soon as I walked into the house. 

You know if you squeeze an orange peel, that "oily" stuff will bead up on the peel. Do you think that would also be attractive to bees?


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## DanielD (Jul 21, 2012)

Though I couldn't identify them or confirm it, I think there are fabricated, or fake, lemongrass oils out there. What did you buy and how much was it? Maybe someone can tell you if it's genuine or not.


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## fieldsofnaturalhoney (Feb 29, 2012)

DanielD said:


> Though I couldn't identify them or confirm it, I think there are fabricated, or fake, lemongrass oils out there. What did you buy and how much was it? Maybe someone can tell you if it's genuine or not.


This could explain the lack of the "louder" smell. Doesn't smell like it's 100 percent lemon grass oil


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## redsnow (Dec 26, 2015)

Well, I don't want to bad-mouth someone's product, without knowing what to expect (smell wise). 

The little bottle that I have is 2oz, cost me $9. It's PipingRock Lemongrass Oil, 100% pure. 

Like I said, I don't know what to expect, I found it online. 

After reading about lemongrass oil, I really expected to have something that was overpowering. But after reading the comments above, if one honeybee can emit nearly the same scent, I don't know. 

Above where JWChesnut made the comment about cheap "teenage girl's" perfumes, my goodness, I can think of little girls that I can smell from 50 yards. You won't do that with my lemongrass oil.


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## jadebees (May 9, 2013)

Organic natursl lemongrass oil is available at heslth food stores. The brand " Aura Cassia" is very good quality.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

No theory.

The constituents of Nasonov pheromone:
1 geraniol (isomer of nerol)
2 nerolic acid (isomer of geranic acid)
3 (E)-citral (geranial) 
4 (Z)-citral (neral)
5 geranic acid (isomer of nerolic acid)
6 Nerol (isomer of geraniol)
7 farnesol
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00995745#page-1

The essential constituents of Nasonov for effects on bees:
1 geraniol (isomer of nerol)
2 nerolic acid (isomer of geranic acid)
3 (E)-citral (geranial) 
4 (Z)-citral (neral)
"A 1:1:1 mixture of geraniol + nerolic acid + (E)- and (Z)-citrals was as effective as a mixture of all the seven components in equal proportions"
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-3032.1981.tb00270.x/abstract

Lemongrass oil major components:
1 geraniol (isomer of nerol)
2 nerolic acid (isomer of geranic acid)
3 (E)-citral (geranial)
4 (Z)-citral (neral)
5 geranic acid (isomer of nerolic acid)
6 farnesol
http://www.iloveindia.com/indian-herbs/lemongrass.html

Notice any similarities?


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

People don't smell things the same way bees do. Lemongrass oil (and geranium oil) don't have much scent to us. They do to bees.

Peter


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## redsnow (Dec 26, 2015)

Hmmm, thanks for your time. I just expected the scent to fill the room as soon as I twisted off the lid.


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## SS Auck (May 8, 2015)

if you want a scent to fill a room open up, then get some skunk quill. You wish you never did.


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## Muzkrat (Apr 13, 2015)

Vance G said:


> The lemongrass oil emulsified into syrup makes syrup really attractive to the bees and will cause thebees to take it in and store it when syrup would not normally attract bees. For instance, bees may be taking syrup and a flowerstarts blooming and thebees quit taking the syrup and gather nectar. With lemongrass oil in the syrup, thebees keep taking it in too. I like this because the bees build up faster and build out more wax.


How much LGO do you add to your syrup to make it effective ?


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

redsnow,

Since you're just starting out, this is just something to do as the opportunity arises, but if you ever replace a queen and have no use for the old one, toss the old one into a small bottle of alcohol (I use white rum). A few old queens soaking in alcohol extracts a trace of queen pheromone, which can then be used as a lure in swarm traps.

Good luck smelling it! Some here say they can but it is faint. The bees have no trouble detecting it.


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## challenger (May 27, 2009)

I dunno, the LGO I've purchased smells pretty loud. It isn't strong per se but it is extremely fragrant and abundant. I don't have to coax the aroma at all and this goes for the three separate vendors I've used???
Great chemical education too!
FWIW - you may want to get these out earlier than you think. I've read that bees start looking for potential locations months before the earliest swarms start.????


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## Baddest Bees (Dec 18, 2020)

Phoebee said:


> redsnow,
> 
> Since you're just starting out, this is just something to do as the opportunity arises, but if you ever replace a queen and have no use for the old one, toss the old one into a small bottle of alcohol (I use white rum). A few old queens soaking in alcohol extracts a trace of queen pheromone, which can then be used as a lure in swarm traps.
> 
> Good luck smelling it! Some here say they can but it is faint. The bees have no trouble detecting it.


ACTUALLY I've tried a bottle of about roughly 40 mated Queens in 93% alcohol and put it on my riding lawnmower hood and bees could care less by about 15 minutes I gave up..I then put Lgo beside it and within minutes bees were all over it.. and none on Qmp alcohol inches from it .. that tells me rumor fbm started is completely bogus..I was testing it out to see which may work to hold bees in queenless mini mating nucs instead of buying the Qmp strips because they don't work that well and are expensive...I've also tried alcohol Queens in swarm traps which is a joke..not trying to sound hateful by no means, but Queens in alcohol simply suck ...


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

> but Queens in alcohol simply suck ...


Lemongrass by itself is very useful for swarm lure. Queen juice is also. Bees out foraging are not looking for the smell of a queen. A swarm is. A swarm is organized around two smells: The queen and the nasonov. The combination is what works best for swarm lure and it also works well when doing cutouts etc. to anchor the bees in the box you are putting them in as you do the cutout.


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