# Building the Honey Run All Season Inner Cover



## dart96 (Mar 4, 2008)

I'm currently planning to build two of the Honey Run Apiaries All Season Inner Covers from the plans that Tim Arheit has on his website (Honey Run Apiaries). Many thanks to Tim for providing the plans free of charge!!

I do have a question regarding the space between the tops of my frames and the bottom of plywood in the inner cover. For reference, here's part of Tim's detailed drawing:










It shows that the bottom of the plywood is 3/8" above the bottom rim. This allows for cutting a 3/8" high entrance on the front of the inner cover without interfering with the plywood. 

If I did my math right, the tops of my frames sit 1/4" below the top rim of the super, and if I add the 3/8" spacing up to the bottom of the plywood in the inner cover, that would give me 5/8" total space between the frames and bottom of the plywood. 

My question is, will I end up with burr comb in that area? I like the 5/8" spacing for the ability to add pollen and/or grease patties on top of the frames, but don't want the bees making burr comb on top of the frames or on the underside of the inner cover. So, would I be better off altering the construction slightly so that I maintain only 3/8" space between the tops of the frames and the bottom of the plywood? I was thinking of using 1/2" plywood that is only 1/8" above the bottom rim (this would give the 3/8" total spacing) and then using my router to cut out a small section of the plywood near the edge so that I can still have a 3/8" high entrance.


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## Budvar (Feb 5, 2008)

Here's what I did over the weekend. About $25 for lumber, screening, etc. Had the intent of doing just two "all season inner covers". However, since I had my cheap table saw out, the dado blade, etc....why not just build the two other items I will eventually need...fume board and powdered sugar "dispercer". 

I'm not a carpenter! For those that don't think they can do it, it wasn't that difficult. Working with a dado blade set, just practice a bit on some scrap wood. Go slow, measure twice, etc. You'll get it. 

I wanted to try this type of inner cover because of the intense summers we get here. If it works, great. If not, well, no harm in trying.


http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj42/pilznbeenthere/bees1.jpg
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj42/pilznbeenthere/bees2.jpg
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj42/pilznbeenthere/bees3.jpg
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj42/pilznbeenthere/bees4.jpg


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

Way too much work. 5/8" or 3/4" plywood 4x8 sheet will yield 15 migratory tops. Need ventilation? Prop up one corner with a stick. Total cost about $2 each..


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## dart96 (Mar 4, 2008)

Nice carpentry work Budvar, even if you say you're not a carpenter!!

From your pictures it looks like you stayed with the 3/8" spacing from the bottom rim to the bottom of the plywood.

I built mine this past week with only 1/8" spacing from the bottom rim to the bottom of the plywood, but I haven't put them on the hives yet (still have a top feeder on). It'll be interesting to see how the bees like it - I'll have to take some pictures and add them to this thread.

-Chris


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## d.asly (Apr 28, 2008)

*15 tops*



Ross said:


> plywood 4x8 sheet will yield 15 migratory tops


Hey ross,
Could you please show me how you get 15 tops out of one sheet?
I can only get 12.
thanks!


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

You have to cheat a bit. Boxes are 3/4" thick on the sides. Tops need to cover the inside dimension plus a bit, not the full outside dimension. I cheat by cutting them 15 7/8" instead of 16 1/4" (plus the 1/8" saw curf), I can get 3 across a sheet, and 4 down the sheet. That's 12. The drop off on the end is 16"x48". That will make two more. Ok, that's just 14, not 15.


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## Alex Cantacuzene (May 29, 2003)

*Covers*

Hi Dart et al, I built four of them and they were fun to build. Budvar you did a great job! Mine have still the traditional inner hand hole but they will be easy to open up if needed for feeders. The side holes were easy to cut with a Forstner bit and the boards were held in a cheap Harbor Freight vice with a 3/4 x 3/4 inch strip on one side to get the angle of the holes for drainage. I also have the corners done with half blind dovetails as I think that is the fastest and most long lasting of joints, but thats just me. If I did it again I would use 1 x 6s as the vent holes are now partially covered with the overhang of the outer cover. I would like to have more ventilation but I think it will work. This winter I will have some styrofoam insulation in them and possibly some jar type feeders. Take care and have fun.
P. S. Take a good look and feel of those pieces when they sit on the top super. The old inner covers were held down and covered with the outer cover and there was little chance for them to fly off. These might need some sort of hold-down.


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## Budvar (Feb 5, 2008)

Thanks Alex and Chris.

I'm not in the business, Ross, so a little overkill is ok with me. No harm taken, however.

Drilling the holes was the most difficult part. I should have anchored the wood before drilling, like Alex mentioned. It ended up a little rough, but cleaned up ok with a rat tail file and wood putty.

I've also been pondering the top feeder question. Both hives on their second deep. Probably won't be feeding much longer anyway. We're about a month before intense heat. Have had a couple days in the 90's, however.


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## Moonshae (Jun 7, 2007)

dart96 said:


> My question is, will I end up with burr comb in that area? I like the 5/8" spacing for the ability to add pollen and/or grease patties on top of the frames, but don't want the bees making burr comb on top of the frames or on the underside of the inner cover.


I'm on my second season with these covers, and I haven't had burr comb issues, except with new packages, who like to start there and build their fist comb in the gap for the queen cage. Once it was scraped away and the missing frame added, I haven't had any trouble.


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## d.asly (Apr 28, 2008)

*You have to cheat a bit....*



Ross said:


> Ok, that's ... 14.


That's excellent ! 

Now, if you really wanna save... the scrap section is exactly 2/5ths of a top. So, 5 sheets will give you 5x14 + 5(2/5) = 72 instead of merely 70 

But on a serious note, it makes one wonder if people cut boxes out of 4x8 sheets, and how they fare with them.


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## carbide (Nov 21, 2004)

d.asly said:


> But on a serious note, it makes one wonder if people cut boxes out of 4x8 sheets, and how they fare with them.


I cut boxes out of 3/4" thick 4x8 sheets. I get 6 deep boxes out of a sheet or 10 shallow supers. I've only been doing it for 3 years so I can't say yet how long they will last.


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## Budvar (Feb 5, 2008)

*Ha!*

I screwed up. The telescoping covers partially cover the ventilation holes. It still gets ventilation, just not as direct.


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## Alex Cantacuzene (May 29, 2003)

Hello Budvar et al! I found exactly the same thing that the outer cover covers those nice round holes. I built another one with 5 3/4" high sides and that one works great. I even routed the box corners with the new Mitr Lok bit just to get some experience with it and it did a pretty good job. Now I am making some "frames" that I will glue on top of the existing vent frames as I exchange them. The 5 3/4" height is not really critical but it works out good with the junkie/cheap lumber that I get here. Take care and have fun.
'


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## okb (Apr 16, 2007)

And the advantage to the time spent building these other than more time in the shop IS ????


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## Ben Brewcat (Oct 27, 2004)

Sawdust therapy, obviously . Works every time and you can drive right afterwards!


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## okb (Apr 16, 2007)

Oh ok, Thanks Ben. Just didnt want to be missing anything.


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## Ben Brewcat (Oct 27, 2004)

But your point is well taken; it's difficult to be able to make much equipment in a cost-effective way unless one makes a fair number of pieces and has good prices for materials.


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## Alex Cantacuzene (May 29, 2003)

Hi Y'all, the time spent on making bee items as a retiree is definitely therapy. From that activity comes the satisfaction of achieving something tangible and that is very important at this stage of life. There is also the experience with simple woodworking that will be important when I turn to furniture and such. There is the benefit of possibly coming up with something that everybody can use. 
The more stuff I experiment with the more I stay at home and the gas stays in the truck.
Most of all I stay away from that mindless stuff on the TV! Does that make sense?
Take care and have fun


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## okb (Apr 16, 2007)

Alex Cantacuzene said:


> Hi Y'all, the time spent on making bee items as a retiree is definitely therapy. From that activity comes the satisfaction of achieving something tangible and that is very important at this stage of life. There is also the experience with simple woodworking that will be important when I turn to furniture and such. There is the benefit of possibly coming up with something that everybody can use.
> The more stuff I experiment with the more I stay at home and the gas stays in the truck.
> Most of all I stay away from that mindless stuff on the TV! Does that make sense?
> Take care and have fun



AMEN!!


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## Alex Cantacuzene (May 29, 2003)

Hi y'all! Well, here goes some more "Overkill"....Our time of feeding is slowly coming to an end and the nasty weather is coming for sure. So....I was thinking (dangerous!!!) and took one of those nice Arheit covers, the ones that I heightened to 5 3/4" and turned it upside down, put cleats with a little ventilation slot on the outsides to cover the holes, placed some styrofoam insulation in the deep side and will be putting this on the top hive box. This will give me enough clearance for that great idea of placing sugar directly on the top of the top frames as emergency feed, with some paper of course. What do you think? Take care and have fun.


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

dart96 writes:

It shows that the bottom of the plywood is 3/8" above the bottom rim. This allows for cutting a 3/8" high entrance on the front of the inner cover without interfering with the plywood. 

If I did my math right, the tops of my frames sit 1/4" below the top rim of the super, and if I add the 3/8" spacing up to the bottom of the plywood in the inner cover, that would give me 5/8" total space between the frames and bottom of the plywood. 

My question is, will I end up with burr comb in that area? I like the 5/8" spacing for the ability to add pollen and/or grease patties on top of the frames, but don't want the bees making burr comb on top of the frames or on the underside of the inner cover.

tecumseh:
first off don't expect the little cut in the front and the back of deeps or supers to be standard. within the realm of commercially made equipment this typically varies by as much as 1/8". as I have suggest before... just the configurations of a migratory lid relative to a inner cover/outer cover should suggest why the frame rest notch is not standard.

as one of my old mentors suggested... why spend a lot of time in fretting over small details (especially those with some upside)? any excess space at the top of the box is excellent for feed or treatment patties as well as pollen patties (you have suggest this benefit) to this my old mentor would have suggested you look at this space as a swarm prevention blow out valve. at the peak of the swarm season the filling of this hollow space should suggest that the hive in question is a fixin' to swarm.

might I suggest... worry less... enjoy beekeeping more.


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