# Solid bottom or screened?



## frustrateddrone (Jan 31, 2015)

Screened tray is the way to go. You don't get the wind and you get to have a small hive beetle oil tray if you get small hive beetles.


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## whiskers (Aug 28, 2011)

Leave a way to get an oxalic acid vaporiser between the screen and the tray in case you need to treat.
Bill


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## stan.vick (Dec 19, 2010)

I'm in coastal Ga. which would be about the same weather and humidity conditions as you. I have a #8 screen on a third of the bottom area in the middle (about six to eight inches wide) I use a top entrance built into the front of the telescopic cover with a robber screen attached. I keep my boxes (painted white) in full sun. I treat with OAV once in November when there is little or no brood. If I change even one of these factors I will lose my colonies, the only factor I might could delete is the OAV, but I won't risk it. I do about the same with my few top bar, except the entrance is just under the top bars in the front, not in the cover.


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## will52100 (Jun 8, 2015)

Thanks, so screens it is. Should I build it with a solid bottom and a removable tray, or use panels to control the airflow?

Thanks


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## stan.vick (Dec 19, 2010)

will52100 said:


> Thanks, so screens it is. Should I build it with a solid bottom and a removable tray, or use panels to control the airflow?
> 
> Thanks


JMO, I think the removable tray may help, if you only have a few hives as a hobby, but when the "bee bug" gets hold of you and you wake up one morning with a yard full of hives, you will drop the "play things" and will also start ordering standard equipment. I started as a determined TBH person and gradually went to standard equipment, but I learned a lot in the process of making that evolution to standardization.


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

I like mine with screened bottoms and a removable solid board. I put diatomaceous earth on the solid board for the small hive beetles, varroa and wax moth larve to drop onto. Just make sure it is bee tight.


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## will52100 (Jun 8, 2015)

How much space between the screen and the board?


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

will52100 said:


> How much space between the screen and the board?


These are kits that I buy from beeline apiary. I'd guess it's less than an inch between the screen and bottom board due to the way they make it with 1x2's.


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## will52100 (Jun 8, 2015)

Thanks, I'll check out beeline. Probably overthinking it, but don't want to make a mistake and kill the bees.


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## mailmam (May 8, 2014)

stan.vick said:


> JMO, I think the removable tray may help, if you only have a few hives as a hobby, but when the "bee bug" gets hold of you and you wake up one morning with a yard full of hives, you will drop the "play things" and will also start ordering standard equipment. I started as a determined TBH person and gradually went to standard equipment, but I learned a lot in the process of making that evolution to standardization.


So are you dissing us TB hivers? I thought that wasn't allowed. JMHO


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## Jon Wolff (Apr 28, 2013)

I'm in eastern Georgia. I had screened bottoms to start with but switched over to solid bottoms after a couple of years. The humidity in my region in the South is too high for open bottoms in my opinion. I've never once treated my bees for varroa, although I did lose one hive to them, but that was before I went to solid bottoms. This is what I do for hive beetles and wax moths. http://imgur.com/a/3YTzK?


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## DougP (Jan 22, 2016)

Very nice photo essay, Jon. Thanks for the information and ideas.


Jon Wolff said:


> I'm in eastern Georgia. I had screened bottoms to start with but switched over to solid bottoms after a couple of years. The humidity in my region in the South is too high for open bottoms in my opinion. I've never once treated my bees for varroa, although I did lose one hive to them, but that was before I went to solid bottoms. This is what I do for hive beetles and wax moths. http://imgur.com/a/3YTzK?


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## will52100 (Jun 8, 2015)

Thanks Jon, that's a very neat idea, and a great way to make a feeder as well.


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## Jon Wolff (Apr 28, 2013)

The feeder does work great. I like not having to open the hives in order to give them a refill. The traps have done a good job of catching a lot of beetles and larvae. I've been using combs with pollen to bait them, left over from when I lost a hive a few years ago. A bit of honey is drizzled on them, and the beetles get drawn in, but pollen patties would probably work, too. One thing I've seen is that when eggs get laid in a bait bottle and larvae hatch and feed on the comb inside, more beetles seem to be drawn down into that particular bottle. There will be other traps with few or no beetles, and one with lots. It leads me to believe that the larvae create a scent that leads others to them.


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## stan.vick (Dec 19, 2010)

mailmam said:


> So are you dissing us TB hivers? I thought that wasn't allowed. JMHO


Not at all, I still have a few and will probably always have some, but use the standard Lang for the bulk of my apiary. Not saying the langs are better, I just don't have the time to build everything from scratch.


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## ChuckReburn (Dec 17, 2013)

will52100 said:


> Which is better for south Mississippi, screened or solid wood bottom? I'm in the process of building two hives, 42" long interior out of 1" thick cyprus. I will be mounting them under a shade tree about 50' from a pound and just below a hill for wind protection. Does it really need a screened bottom, or is it not worth the effort? It's not a big deal to build either way, but if I'm going to wind up leaving the screen closed off most of the time what's the point?
> 
> Also what's the best way to get comb started on the top bars, a triangle piece, rip an 1/8" wide and deep center with 1/2"x1/8" wood strip, or string soaked with bee's wax laid in the center of the top bars?
> 
> Thanks, I'm completely new at bee keeping.


We've built several hundred top bars, currently keep about 40 and work with Les Crowder. We are getting rid of screened bottoms (Les never used them).

A screened bottom when open makes it all but an open air colony in a TBH - very difficult for the bees to control humidity and temperature in the brood nest. They seem to do a better job of circulating air in a solid bottom. When closed, the space between the screen and closure becomes a breeding ground for SHB and wax moths. We used a few well placed vent holes - Les uses nothing. Unless you consider it necessary for your management plan, I don't see the point in making the effort to screen it.

What works best to get comb started and drawn straight is straight drawn comb. If you can get a few pieces of old brood comb tied in place with fishing line it's a great start. Once you've got a few good drawn bars, an empty placed between them will get drawn perfectly. At that point, you don't need a guide (really, a flat bar works just fine). I use a triangular piece on the hives I sell as it's long enough that the bars can't get accidentally knocked into the hive and it offers a bit more attachment when comb is roughly handled. The wax dipped string doesn't offer any benefit I can see.

We're advocates of full or mostly full sun as it seems to keep SHB in check. We use a slightly elevated top so air can circulate over the bars - comb collapse has only been an issue when the top is off and sun is directly hitting the bars.

Best Wishes.


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## will52100 (Jun 8, 2015)

Great info, thanks. I built one with screen and one without, both have a removable bottom and have been thinking of taking the screen out of the one and doing something like Jon did with mason jars for SHB and as feeders. I don't have any drawn comb, but have been thinking of maybe getting a few sheets of foundation and attaching to a couple of bars to help them out when I get the bees.


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## Jon Wolff (Apr 28, 2013)

What Chuck describes sounds a lot like what I do. My roofs are elevated off the top bars by bricks to keep air circulating underneath and to keep palmetto bugs from propagating between the roof and top bars because they will really foul your bars. They don't like all the air and light. My hives are really tightly constructed--no hiding places for beetles to go but down into the traps. I press propolis into any little places I think will give them shelter. I use a 3" hole saw now to cut the holes in the bottom board instead of a jigsaw. It's fast and accurate. If you cut a kerf in your starter bars, you can wax in a one inch strip of foundation along each bar; no need to use a full sheet per bar. If you can get some comb from another beekeeper, you can use this method to hold it to the bars. The bees will attach the comb themselves and chew away the cardboard.


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## yotebuster1200 (Jul 28, 2013)

Jon Wolff said:


> What Chuck describes sounds a lot like what I do. My roofs are elevated off the top bars by bricks to keep air circulating underneath and to keep palmetto bugs from propagating between the roof and top bars because they will really foul your bars. They don't like all the air and light. My hives are really tightly constructed--no hiding places for beetles to go but down into the traps. I press propolis into any little places I think will give them shelter. I use a 3" hole saw now to cut the holes in the bottom board instead of a jigsaw. It's fast and accurate. If you cut a kerf in your starter bars, you can wax in a one inch strip of foundation along each bar; no need to use a full sheet per bar. If you can get some comb from another beekeeper, you can use this method to hold it to the bars. The bees will attach the comb themselves and chew away the cardboard.
> View attachment 22794


Clever trick with the cardboard


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## will52100 (Jun 8, 2015)

Great info, thanks. Love the idea of the cardboard.


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## Jon Wolff (Apr 28, 2013)

Thanks. It holds the comb better than other methods I've tried, and I don't have to worry about it later. The cardboard will squish down with only small gaps when the top bars are in place. I always have cardboard strips ready at hand so if I need to, I can quickly staple one around a comb. Once the bees have attached the comb, I can pop off the cardboard, if the bees haven't chewed it free already.


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