# Terramycin, or?



## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

if it's efb Terramycin works just fine on it, but the new version of Efb does seem to stay in the comb at least going on the few people that I know had it last year, reused the equipment and seem to have it again, they are burning the frames. The other option used a lot in Europe is to shake the hive out and put them on foundation and don't feed them for a while so they use up any honey in their crops, never tried it myself.


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## hex0rz (Jan 14, 2014)




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## hex0rz (Jan 14, 2014)

This Is surprising... Does no one have answer to this?


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

Wildbranch gave you the answer.Use terrimycin on this.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

You said you sent samples to the lab? 

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?319351-Lost-another-hive&p=1352987#post1352987

I would say you still have EFB. 

If you Terramycin them and it goes away you will know then too. Also keep in mind the comb is still infected and it may come back after OTC wears off. 

Are you still using EOs?

He though he had sacbrood too;
http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...d-what-options-(-quot-It-s-complicated-quot-)


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

>but the new version of Efb does seem to stay in the comb at least going on the few people that I know had it last year, reused the equipment and seem to have it again

Old version of EFB does too;

https://books.google.com/books?hl=e...epage&q=european foulbrood resistance&f=false


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## Flbeeman (Jun 2, 2015)

my op would be to save alot of trouble would be to shake them into a new box and let them start fresh and burn the old box.


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

Looks like chalk brood to me - The one on the stick just has not had time to dry out yet
Foulbrood uselly is a lot darker in color also


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## hex0rz (Jan 14, 2014)

No I did not send samples in on this. I'm going to pick up some otc, and tylosin as they are both available locally. I was reading that some efb is otc resistant. 

Yes, I did think that I had sacbrood, but it was am observation made by someone else that convinced me of that. I don't think I had sacbrood at all. 

I have not used any eo's this year at all. I have been only putting vinegar, electrolytes, amino acids in the syrup. Also, 1tbs bleach per gallon of feed for first couple time of feeding. Been months since the bleach has been fed. 

It was a bit of a struggle to find any advanced brood in the comb. They're cleaning it well. I do have other pictures of late stages of larval death that do show them scaled up. 

If you look at the last picture more closely, you'll notice that the back of the cell has a milkyness, to it. I don't chalkbrood, does that.


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## AR Beekeeper (Sep 25, 2008)

I see several eggs per cell, is your colony queenright now? Is your adult population strong enough to care for the larva? I don't see the dead prepupa you would have with chalkbrood, it may be because your colony is removing them quickly. I would say PMS or EFB if the colony is queenright, if it is not queenright, PMS or neglected brood.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

>I was reading that some efb is otc resistant. 

The studies I have read found no otc resistant EFB stains. I do believe it is possible. Atleast one maybe more AFB otc resistant stain(s), no AFB resistance to tylosin. If there is a newer study about EFB sure would like to read them.

>I have not used any eo's this year at all.

Good!!!

>No I did not send samples in on this.

You really need to! This is going to keep hunting you and you will never know if you are treating the right thing;

http://www.ars.usda.gov/Main/docs.htm?docid=7472

>I'm going to pick up some otc, and tylosin as they are both available locally.

From your picture I see no reason to buy tylosin (but that is also another good reason for a lab test). Tylosin does not work on anything else to include EFB. OTC will tell you real quick if it's EFB or not, within 2 weeks you will see noticeable results.

One of your larva does look a little like chalkbrood or sacbrood. 

EFB, AFB, sacbrood, chalkbrood all can be misdiagnosed even by experts; both R. Oliver and D. Cushman posted on their sites; they were surprised by the results from the lab when they thought that has something else. This showing the importance of a lab test.


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## hex0rz (Jan 14, 2014)

This was the hive I was going to use the queen from to queen the other hive with that had the symptoms. So yes this hive has a queen, the other queen was pinched but now they are raising their own. 

This might be a good time to do some grafting from my other strong hives to give them better queens and get them on track for winter. 

I did varroa treatments before the flow, and I know what pms looks like as I had 8 hives collapse from it on me last year in August. 

I don't know where the articles would be that day the efb is resistant to otc. Just some posts I read about the issue. I think it was being experienced in the UK?

I just picked up some otc, skipped the tylosin. It was really expensive. Otc was 7 dollars foot 6.4 Oz mix. Says it has 10 grams of Otc.

Any advice on how to dose this to them with the powder sugar?

Wasn't able to get samples last year as by the time it was noted to do so, it was too late. I'll pull a sample this time though, but it's not going to stop me from treating begot getting results.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

>Says it has 10 grams of Otc.

>Any advice on how to dose this to them with the powder sugar?

You want 200 mg per 2 table spoon of powder sugar. A digital scale will help make small batches. The label should also tell you it might say to add entire package to a specific amount of powder sugar. I would also feed them a dose in sugar water as per the label.


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## hex0rz (Jan 14, 2014)

No instructions on bees. Guess I didn't look hard enough. Was in a hurry and when I saw the stuff just grabbed it.


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

If you want OTC you better get it before its off the market.My brother was a pharmacist and then became a doctor 30 years ago and said its good in the packages for many more years than what the expiration dates say.And also just put it in the freezer to keep for years and years.After opening also just put in the refrigerator.After it off the market you will then need to get a vet to prescribe it for you.Man the cost will jump then!!!!!


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

hex0rz said:


> No instructions on bees. Guess I didn't look hard enough. Was in a hurry and when I saw the stuff just grabbed it.


I add 2 bags of terra to 4 lb's of sugar, so one bag to 2 lbs of sugar, the terra that had the label isn't sold any more, but what is sold has the same amount of active ingredients. or a search using google will give you the label amount to use.


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## hex0rz (Jan 14, 2014)

Found some dosing instructions. 1 teaspoon of otc pre mix powder to every ounce of powder sugar. A 6.4 Oz package with 10g otc will do 50 treatments.


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## hex0rz (Jan 14, 2014)

...2 tablespoons per hive dusted on the ends of the top bars and on the outside frames; That's what I did today. Will repeat in 5 days or so and check brood patterns and larva health.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

Any status on the brood pattern?


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## hex0rz (Jan 14, 2014)

Yes. I treated on Sunday again. This Friday will be another. I'm treating 4 out of 6 hives and they've done a good job of cleaning up the bad brood. They've taken all the sugar mix I've given them much to my surprise.

The brood appears to be healthy but the pattern will be off because of cell timing availability. The one hive I pinched the queen in has a newly emerged virgin that should be laying by this weekend hopefully. 

I was reading that I need to do 5 treatments instead of 3 with shorter intervals, anyone verify that?

On my inspection I conduct after doing the last treatment, I'll take some frame pictures to show the difference.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

Awesome!

Here is a good post by "Tim B" that might answer that question.

http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...i-found-EFB-in-one-hive&p=1248062#post1248062

The pictures would be good and may help others.


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## hex0rz (Jan 14, 2014)

Just did my last treatment with the otc today. Bees are looking allot better! As the doctor says though, just because you feel better, doesn't mean you should stop taking your prescription. 

The virgin in the one pinched at the start is mated, marked and laying up a storm. Brood patterns have improved and larval health is good. Being that we are on a flow, they are starting to put stores away and gathering good amounts of pollen. 

I anticipate them being well provisioned in double deeps by fall ready to face winter!

I'm thinking that after the flow and I harvest the honey I will treat all hives again with the otc whole doing oav treatments. I want to ensure I knock all the efb out so there are no more breakouts next season.


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## hex0rz (Jan 14, 2014)

A week after 3rd and final treatment, here are the results!



All the hives will be getting the treatment again after the flow is over. I want to ensure the apiary is free and clean of the bacteria. I'm also going to work on transferring them into different equipment next spring do i can scorch all this equipment. 

What's everyone think???


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

Hive looks much better!

Scorching works, so does bleach.

Here's a few threads on clean up. (I see you have seen one of them but it may help others)

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?327048-EFB-cleanup

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?327500-Using-a-UV-light-to-clean-up-combs


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