# Are landing boards simply just a waste of wood? ( and paint? )



## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

The title says it all! Sorry for asking you to crank up the brain power on such a trivial subject. Something to keep it a little lite hearted as everyone pulls honey! 



1. How many times have you seen a swarm on a tree build a landing board to facilitate better ingress and egress? 

2. Are they really that necessary on the rectangular "trees" we keep them in or are they just a waste of space and resources?


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

I don't use them, and have never seen a problem they either fly right in the entrance or land on the front wall and walk down.


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## Dakota (Apr 26, 2014)

I must have horribly un-coordinated bees. I get most of my morning entertainment watching them attempt to land loaded with pollen and nectar only to over shoot or undershoot the landing bad and literally crash land, roll a few times, and flail themselves flipping back over. . . I swear, I laugh every time. . . And the drones... I've never seen a more clumsy flyer (aside from maybe a bumble bee). 

I think my bees need a 2 foot long runway with landing lights and a control tower.


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## RAK (May 2, 2010)

Phil, my pallets have 1 inch for landing but I was thinkin if i get rid of that I will have less water in my pallets. The landing strip is what catches the rain. But of course, you won't know what rainwater in you hives looks like since you folks down south forgot what rain is...


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

I really don't think bees need them.


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## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)

In tests friends of mine made (commercial beekeepers), honey production was increased by 10 % using long landing boards reaching all down to the ground. Compared to no landing board at all. The boards they call moneymaker since. 

They reckon' it is due to bees early in the morning finding early hour nectar flows. If those bees in the morning fall down into the green and not finding into the hive they cannot wake up and alarm the hive. The better the early bees find their way back, the earlier the hive wakes up and gets up, foraging earlier than other hives without landing boards. Like buckwheat there are some plants that give nectar in the early morning only. 

The other reason for long landing boards is the return of the queen with a clipped wing. A queen with clipped wing drops out of the hive at the attempt of swarming. With a board reaching down to the ground she crawls back into the hive and continiues laying. 

A 10 % increase in honey production and the queen thing are enough reason for me to use long landing boards. Also you reduce drifting when those boards are painted in different colours and shapes. I simply lean those boards towards the entrance and stuff them under the lid when transporting.


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## cristianNiculae (Jul 2, 2013)

I make my bottom boards the same dimension as the boxes and even a bit narrower, then I just move the box 2,5 cm(the width of the wood) back and there you go: landing board.
However next year I'll switch to top entrances; I didn't like the part with tearing the grass in front of the entrance.


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## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)

You really want to go down the top entrances route? Are you keeping bees for honey or just for fun?


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

BernhardHeuvel said:


> In tests friends of mine made (commercial beekeepers), honey production was increased by 10 % using long landing boards reaching all down to the ground. Compared to no landing board at all. The boards they call moneymaker since.
> 
> They reckon' it is due to bees early in the morning finding early hour nectar flows. If those bees in the morning fall down into the green and not finding into the hive they cannot wake up and alarm the hive. The better the early bees find their way back, the earlier the hive wakes up and gets up, foraging earlier than other hives without landing boards. Like buckwheat there are some plants that give nectar in the early morning only.
> 
> ...


Very interesting, thank you for posting this.


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## cristianNiculae (Jul 2, 2013)

BernhardHeuvel said:


> You really want to go down the top entrances route? Are you keeping bees for honey or just for fun?


Maybe I should mention that I keep my hives really low on the ground: I just place 2 pieces of fire wood underneath the hive. The bees are literally jumping from the grass into the entrance. I'm still at the beginning and have a far journey ahead of me... I often say something and do the oppossite .

During the next year I'm still expanding so it's still plenty of time to make a decision. However I will still make classic bottom boards for my boxes so it's no one way journey in terms of gear.

I like simplicity and flexibility... I forgot to say that I'm using migratory covers: a shim under the cover and there's the entrance; I reduce the bottom entrance using hardware cloth (from M. Bush)


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

You paint your bottom boards? Who paints pallets? Why?

One reason for the landing board on pallet bottom boards could be so pallets can't be pushed up together face to face and block entrances. I know some beekeepers who have long stringers so they meet up across the deck of the trailer bed.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Are landing boards simply just a waste of wood? ( and paint? ) 

Without them the mice have trouble getting in. I call them "mouse ramps"...


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## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)

You have strange names for a lot of things. You call a queen excluder a honey excluder. Yet I harvest more honey with than without it. As do many other serious beekeepers. And a moneymaker aka landing board you call a mice ramp. Really? What kind of mice do you have there? Where I live mice run right up any vertical wooden wall or stand or anything. They don't need a ramp. Are your mice driving around in wheelchairs?


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## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

I use Freeman bottom boards that have a fairly long slanted ramp. My bees enjoy sitting on the front porch and watching the butterflies go by.


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

My most productive hives this season (all around 200 lbs. or more) didn't have landing boards at all, I just use bottom boards with a 2 1/2" wide x 1/2" high entrance slot in the rim. They don't need landing boards if you ask me.


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## VodoBaas1 (Mar 26, 2013)

Geez BernhardHeuvel, take a chill pill. I'm pretty sure no one was bashing your long landing board thoughts. Why must you bash anyone else's? To each their own, this should be a place to share thoughts and ideas, not a place to cut them down. People are just stating what has worked for them and their experience. I've used bottom entrance with landing board and I've used top entrance with a landing board and without. I have noticed any difference, but I never did any scientific study.


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## Santa Caras (Aug 14, 2013)

Two of my hives have std landing boards and two dont.
I dont think they NEED them. If made available tho, they will USE them.
I dont notice any diffrence tween the hives that do and dont.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

I think it depends on location of the hive. I have a nuc at home, and the bees have to drop in as it's in the corner of the fence with trees etc... all around it over 7' tall and the flight path makes them have to basically come in vertically to land and I think the longer landing board they have helps with that. Otherwise, in an open area, I don't think they need them but it helps during heavy traffic and I assume fanning during the heat of the day somewhat.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

There are many things a mouse will attempt when there are no bees to worry about where they would not if there were bees. Often just tipping the scale a bit is enough to discourage them. I noticed a long time ago that the hives on stands with ramps on them got more mice in them. Hives with 3/4" openings got more mice than hives with 3/8" openings. Around here a popular device is a piece of 3/8" plywood with 3/8" laths on each end and the center. It's about 4" wide and slides into a 3/4" opening making a 4" long 3/8" high path for the bees (and the mice) and everyone who uses them says it keeps the mice out. I'm quite sure a mouse can get through that, but their experience seems to show that while a mouse can, when there are bees in the hive, they will not. I've now gone to top entrances. I'm pretty sure the mice could get in them if they were determined enough but they never do if there are bees in the hive.

My bees all fly right in the top entrance with no problems and no need to land outside the hive. Granted, I have smaller bees than most... I don't see any crash landings like you sometimes see with a landing board.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Michael Bush said:


> My bees all fly right in the top entrance with no problems and no need to land outside the hive. Granted, I have smaller bees than most... I don't see any crash landings like you sometimes see with a landing board.


You seem to have those little bees well trained!

I have some landing boards and some not. As far as honey production + or - I think you would have to really control you tests well to determine the source of any advantage. I have forage strongly in one direction and colonies to that end of the row seem to have had better production.

I did an experiment this summer that resulted in moving entrances around (Snelgrove Board) to do some sorting of bees. I tried the trick of having a moveable landing board about 6 inches square and I would say it eliminated some of the hovering and dodging around on landing. Bees also groom on the landing board.

I used to build some fancy bottoms with slanted landing boards etc., but the novelty has worn off. I think after a while the hive function has to have a proven functionality to justify the effort. We have to be careful though that we do not spend more effort defending the choices we make than we save by doing it so. That said, I would bet a nickel that Bernards landing boards might show a _bit_ higher honey production under controlled study conditions but I seem to have a bit more honey every year than my wife manages to give away.


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

My Langs have landing boards, my nucs do not. Both do just fine. The tree hive seems to be fine without one. It will be interesting to see if they survive though as no feeding, no treating, no manipulated brood breaks.


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

jmgi said:


> My most productive hives this season (all around 200 lbs. or more) didn't have landing boards at all, I just use bottom boards with a 2 1/2" wide x 1/2" high entrance slot in the rim. They don't need landing boards if you ask me.


I would love to have hives make 200lb surplus honey!!


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

BernhardHeuvel said:


> You really want to go down the top entrances route? Are you keeping bees for honey or just for fun?


BH, I'd like to know what your thoughts on this are...care to share?

Thanks,
Ed


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

As far as the term "honey excluder" I can find a reference in the June 6, 1907 British Bee Journal to the term "Honey excluder" for a queen excluder Volume 35 pg 228. 
http://books.google.com/books?id=og...gQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q="honey excluder"&f=false

Also in the Irish Bee Journal Vol VII, No.3 July 1907 pg 35
http://books.google.com/books?id=RR...6AEwAjge#v=onepage&q="honey excluder"&f=false

And it has been in constant usage since that time at least if not before, until the present day. That predates my birth by almost half a century... so I certainly did not invent it and the concept is not unique to me.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

dsegrest said:


> I use Freeman bottom boards that have a fairly long slanted ramp. My bees enjoy sitting on the front porch and watching the butterflies go by.


Mine like to sit on the porch drinking mead and laughing at the drones landing...a really rowdy bunch of wenches!!!!


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

WBVC said:


> I would love to have hives make 200lb surplus honey!!


It's not the hives, but what's in them.


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## Flyer Jim (Apr 22, 2004)

VodoBaas1 said:


> Geez BernhardHeuvel, take a chill pill. I'm pretty sure no one was bashing your long landing board thoughts. Why must you bash anyone else's? To each their own, this should be a place to share thoughts and ideas, not a place to cut them down.


Geez vodoBaas1, lighten up.:no: What? No sense of humor? You gotta have a little fun or it's all work.:no:


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## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

All my 5 frame nucs have a 3/4" landing board, all my production hives have a 1 1/2" landing board. I really don't know if there is an advantage to having them or not?? Maybe they help in not letting the weeds grow right up and block the entrances completely but give a bit of a buffer?? I keep the weeds down in my bee yard just because it looks nice and the farmer has commented how nice the area looks.


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## dynemd (Aug 27, 2013)

Queen Excluder or Honey Excluder?
http://www.beesource.com/point-of-view/jerry-hayes/queen-excluder-or-honey-excluder/


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

How did landing boards get onto the excluder debate ? Lol

Bernhard! Stirring the pot... Keep it coming! I love it!


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## texanbelchers (Aug 4, 2014)

I wish he had also done an upper entrance without the excluder in the experiment. Has any of this testing been done since?


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