# Hives (unassembled) arrive tomorrow would like feedback/suggestions on my plan...



## jody6363 (Sep 27, 2014)

Welcome to the forum. Glad to see another person from my home county. As for your question. ..I prefer tightbond 3. Not a big fan of some of the gorilla products. 
If you use screws, use something around one and a quarter to one and five eighth. I paint mine so not much help there. 

Jody


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

beez2plz said:


> Will they be hard to assemble without a jig or a staple gun? :scratch:


Time consuming. Frustrating, but I did a couple hundred before I got a gun. Just make sure you glue em. Makes a big difference once the propolis is rocking. Good Luck. Enjoy. G


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## whiskers (Aug 28, 2011)

Shellac and water don't do well together. Shellac is a nice finish but needs to stay indoors.
have fun with your project.
Bill


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## tech.35058 (Jul 29, 2013)

beez2plz said:


> Hi all! Well, I'll be rolling up my sleeves and getting busy assembling my Rossman hives ....snip-snip ...... The frames are also unassembled and those seem the most daunting. Will they be hard to assemble without a jig or a staple gun? :scratch:


You do not say how many frames, but you do say "hives" ( plural) . build, rig or buy a jig to assemble frames. multiple designs on the internet. I made one out of boards I salvaged from a shipping pallet, a threaded rod & a couple of wingnuts, but there are lots of ways to do it.
The time it takes to make/get the jig will pay off in the time it saves. 
I also made some "corner squares" that I clamp into my boxes when assembling them, but they are pretty fiddly.
The air stapler is my best friend when it comes to making wooden ware. If you can't buy one, can you rent one, or borrow one?
my stapler was $15 at harbor freight. they probably have a compressor that would run it for pretty cheap, too.
Good luck!


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## Beregondo (Jun 21, 2011)

A stapler speeds things up.a screw gun is fine for assembling a dozen or so hives worth of boxes.

Titebod 3 will make a glue joint stronger than the wood if used per directions.
As long as your screw are long enough to hold the edges tight til the glue dries, they're fine.

Have fun.
Enjoy your bees.


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

I suggest you buy yourself a staple gun. The 1/4" crown gun should be sufficient to staple the boxes and frames as it will accept multiple lengths of staples. 
Glue everything with titebond and staple. Staple the boxes every 2" or so along the rabbet.
As far as weather proofing the exterior of the hive..... quick and easy will not last. Take the time to seal with one coat of primer, two coats of paint with good quality materials. 
Spar varnish will last a little while but will need maintenance every couple of years. This means taking apart the hive, removing the boxes and re hiving everything to alternate boxes. Not fun.


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## bbbthingmaker (Sep 26, 2010)

Titebond III is waterproof , used on boats. Titebond II is water resistant, used for outdoor applications. II is plenty good for bee hives unless you live in a flood prone area. For hive bodies, 3/4 inch material, I use 2 inch screws. Three or four on each side of each corner. ECO wood treatment is supposed to last forever. Not real pretty but should be maintenance free.


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## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

Titebond III, buy a an air stapler they are like 16 bucks at harbor freight. 1/4 x 2" crown staples every finger, quick, good, and cheep, rare to get all three! Spar varnish.


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## Billboard (Dec 28, 2014)

Spar varnish is for exterior finishes. Thats what you want to use. Its uv resistant and a couple of coats will last a few yrs. Thats what i put on my cedar for the natural look.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

If you are screwing through 3/8" thick pine, you will need to drill a pilot and countersink and make sure you don't put them in too tight or they will still split. A pilot hole is always a good idea when using screws, but is essential when the wood is only 3/8" thick...


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## newbury (Jul 19, 2014)

tech.35058 said:


> You do not say how many frames, but you do say "hives" ( plural) . build, rig or buy a jig to assemble frames. multiple designs on the internet. I made one out of boards I salvaged from a shipping pallet, a threaded rod & a couple of wingnuts, but there are lots of ways to do it.
> The time it takes to make/get the jig will pay off in the time it saves.
> I also made some "corner squares" that I clamp into my boxes when assembling them, but they are pretty fiddly.
> The air stapler is my best friend when it comes to making wooden ware. If you can't buy one, can you rent one, or borrow one?
> ...





Tenbears said:


> Titebond III, buy a an air stapler they are like 16 bucks at harbor freight. 1/4 x 2" crown staples every finger, quick, good, and cheep, rare to get all three! Spar varnish.


That's 2 votes for a $16 air stapler but no info on compressor.
SO - IF you can wait a bit HF also puts their 3 gal. 1/3 HP 100 PSI Oilless Pancake Air Compressor - list $90 - on sale for $60, $50 and $40. I've bought two at the $40 price point and gave one to my son. And if you get the HF stapler they jam less with a staple of better quality than what HF sells.


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## stan.vick (Dec 19, 2010)

I have used rossman's cypress, it does as good as pine but not much better because it's new growth not old growth, I just painted mine, air staplers and jigs are fine if you're doing a lot of boxes, but if it's under ten you can do alright with a hammer and screw gun, most suppliers will have pre-drilled them, I use 1 5/8 course sheetrock screws and titebound 11, also I usually put in two screws per side and nail the rest. If you put on a fresh coat of paint every couple of years it will save you a lot of money in the long run.


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## tech.35058 (Jul 29, 2013)

newbury said:


> That's 2 votes for a $16 air stapler but no info on compressor.
> SO - IF you can wait a bit HF also puts their 3 gal. 1/3 HP 100 PSI Oilless Pancake Air Compressor - list $90 - on sale for $60, $50 and $40. I've bought two at the $40 price point and gave one to my son. And if you get the HF stapler they jam less with a staple of better quality than what HF sells.


I did not know how high his budget might or might not be.. If you have access to a Northern Equipment store, they seem a little upscale from HArbor Freight. I bought a bunch of staples in various lengths at Lowes, they feed ok, & I haven't used them up yet.
I got a bigger "twin tank" air compressor from a local tool discount center ( The Tool Shed, in Cullman Alabama ) so that I could run my air wrenches too.
It had great specs, maybe 6 or 7 CFM, but way more than needed for air nailer. paid around $150 for compressor, but it devloped a problem a year later. The Tool Shed guys fixed it for free., has been reliable ever since.
I have not used HF compressors, so did not really want to comment on them. if $60 puts you to stapling, it is a good deal. (IMHO)
about harbor Freight, you know all this stuff is price driven, so don't expect more than you pay for.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Air stapler from Harbor Freight. Print off the 20% off coupon from their website and bring it with you. Should be about $20. Do not get the one that is the nailer/stapler combo. Haven't heard good things about that one.

Use Porter-Cable or similar staples from Home Depot or the like instead of HF staples.

I have never put a frame together without an air stapler. Unless the world as we know it ends, I never will. If you don't have a compressor (you should). You maybe be able to borrow one from someone you know or find one cheap on Craigslist.


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## beez2plz (Feb 19, 2015)

bbbthingmaker said:


> Titebond III is waterproof , used on boats. Titebond II is water resistant, used for outdoor applications. II is plenty good for bee hives unless you live in a flood prone area. For hive bodies, 3/4 inch material, I use 2 inch screws. Three or four on each side of each corner. ECO wood treatment is supposed to last forever. Not real pretty but should be maintenance free.


What is ECO wood treatment? I really like the way this cypress looks - was gonna use spar.


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## beez2plz (Feb 19, 2015)

Wow, thanks everyone!! Well, to answer a couple questions that came up. I have 2 deeps & 6 mediums - eight frames. Since one was a kit, half of the frames came assembled. My hubby has an air gun, but I don't know if it can use staples (he's only ever used nails and he's out of the country now). 

If you need to paint/reseal every couple of years won't you have to rehome the bees for the job regardless of what finish you use?

Everything that came (UPS left a box on the truck!) seems to look good - one slightly cupped end board that I hope will straighten when screwed down. My mentor has a jig and is going to show me how to assemble the frames. 

Now, where's my elf suit?


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

I painted these hive bodies three years ago with no sign of needing to be repainted. I've heard some beekeepers paint every ten - fifteen years or so.
The clear coat (high end deck sealant) last one season.
You can see more hives, bees, removals on my FB page below.


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## beez2plz (Feb 19, 2015)

Mr.Beeman said:


> I painted these hive bodies three years ago with no sign of needing to be repainted. I've heard some beekeepers paint every ten - fifteen years or so.
> The clear coat (high end deck sealant) last one season.
> You can see more hives, bees, removals on my FB page below.
> 
> View attachment 16161


This isn't really deck sealant, it's spar urethane like you'd use on your front door - a bit thicker stuff. I figure if I spent a bit more for the cypress, I may as well enjoy seeing it. (-; What/where is that ECO? Is it paint or sealer?


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## BadBeeKeeper (Jan 24, 2015)

I started out doing my boxes with spar urethane, it makes them look real nice...for two or three years. Then it has to be re-done. I'm using Thompson water-seal now- last year was the first time so I have no estimate on longevity.

Compressor- if you don't have one already for an air stapler, DO NOT waste any money on an el-cheapo Campbell-Housefeld like WallyWorld sells. I had one, it burned up after only a few hundred frames. I broke down and got a big 26gal, 2HP compressor at Harbor Freight, so far so good. (The C-H compressor was a complete waste of almost half of what the big Central Pneumatics compressor cost. Don't cheap out because this is definitely a case of "you get what you pay for".) The C-H 2-in-1 18g brad nailer/stapler seems to be holding up OK. Just don't use the cheap aluminum fittings, go for the brass, it doesn't cost that much more.


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## Walter Lawler (Apr 12, 2013)

Epoxy or titebond III is glues of choice for cypress Gorilla glue "foams" as it. Drys and is messy. Cypress is naturally bug resistant (although that shouldn't be an issue). I read somewhere about roughing up the wood before gluing but can't for the life of me see why that would be an issue on sawn/rabbited wood. Just me but I always liked porter cable nailers. I've got 2 that I've used for about 8 years. 

Walt


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Welcome to Beesource!




beez2plz said:


> What/where is that ECO? Is it paint or sealer?


This is what they are referring to: http://www.ecowoodtreatment.com/

Its not universally loved at Beesource ... 
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?306715-Eco-Wood-Treatment-Who-Has-Experience


The problem with any transparent coating is the relative lack of UV blockers. The UV rays get past the sealer and degrade the wood. You face a choice between 'pretty' and 'longer life'. My preference is to have the wood last as long as practical.


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## quattro (Oct 2, 2014)

I used to be into racing, so I had some fiberglass resin left over. I have coated my stained hives with this and they look really good. Cannot tell you how long they will last because this is my first year. To thin the resin for "painting", I cut it with a bit of acetone. Glad these things will sit outside for the next month while I wait on my bees - maybe by then the smell will have dissipated.


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

Walter Lawler said:


> Epoxy or titebond III is glues of choice for cypress Gorilla glue "foams" as it. Drys and is messy.
> 
> Walt


Gorilla makes a wood glue that does not foam and works great, it's all I use. Cheaper than tight bond 2 ( at least at my local store ) and like tight bond you'll break the wood before the glue


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Does anyone just use elmers glue?
Thanks
gww


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

gww said:


> Does anyone just use elmers glue?


Elmer? (Sorry, could not resist)............. Seriously, they do make a good wood glue. If you have it, use it till it's gone then by TB.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

I did use it so far but I am sure I need to build more.
Thanks
gww

PS ha ha


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

snl said:


> Elmer? (Sorry, could not resist)............. Seriously, they do make a good wood glue.


Elmers is a brand name, and they offer multiple glue products. The classic Elmers 'white' glue is considered an interior glue from what I can find. Their better products for wood-to-wood gluing are the Elmers 'Carpenter's Glue', which is a yellow glue. 

http://elmers.com/products/glues-and-adhesives?filters=hardware|wood

The white Elmers is better than _no _glue, but their yellow glue is a better choice than the white glue. 

I use Titebond II and like it fine - and the price is right, too.


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## beez2plz (Feb 19, 2015)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> Welcome to Beesource!
> 
> Thanks Rader and everyone else who posted to help me out. I had gotten the Cabot spar at Lowes, but returned it and am going to try the Helmsmen spar (Minwax). I put my deeps together today and can't bear to cover that pretty wood without at least giving a clear coat a try. I used Titebond III and #6 Phosphate coated 1 5/8" trim screws w/a pilot in both boards.
> 
> ...


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## newbury (Jul 19, 2014)

beez2plz said:


> My mentor has a jig and is going to show me how to assemble the frames.


After "slapping" together a wood frame I realized heavy duty cardboard cut w/ scissors could be easily used for a frame jig. I just finished putting 20 frames together.

I had mentioned the HF compressor and brad nailer. When I bought them I also bought 1 (one) box of HF brads, and 4 boxes of Hitachi brads at HD. On prior projects, nailing quarter round for floors, I used the Hitachi, never a jam. So I thought I'd try the HF brads, 3 jams in less than a dozen attempts. Good nailer, terrible nails.


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

newbury said:


> After "slapping" together a wood frame I realized heavy duty cardboard cut w/ scissors could be easily used for a frame jig. I just finished putting 20 frames together.
> 
> I had mentioned the HF compressor and brad nailer. When I bought them I also bought 1 (one) box of HF brads, and 4 boxes of Hitachi brads at HD. On prior projects, nailing quarter round for floors, I used the Hitachi, never a jam. So I thought I'd try the HF brads, 3 jams in less than a dozen attempts. Good nailer, terrible nails.


Yeah, I read the same reviews on the HF brads. I never bought em. Haven't had a jam yet with the ones I buy at Lowe's.


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## tech.35058 (Jul 29, 2013)

newbury said:


> After "slapping" together a wood frame I realized heavy duty cardboard cut w/ scissors could be easily used for a frame jig. I just finished putting 20 frames together.
> 
> I had mentioned the HF compressor and brad nailer. When I bought them I also bought 1 (one) box of HF brads, and 4 boxes of Hitachi brads at HD. On prior projects, nailing quarter round for floors, I used the Hitachi, never a jam. So I thought I'd try the HF brads, 3 jams in less than a dozen attempts. Good nailer, terrible nails.


I have never used the brads, just staples myself. the hf staples do not seem that bad, but what I have most of are Hitachi, that was what Lowes had when I needed staples.
Cardboard .... I had not thought of that, & I have an "unlimited" source for triple wall. maybe I can make a hive body jig that stores flat...
Good Luck, CE


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