# Bee Sting for Knee Pain



## jwcarlson

My dad was involved in an explosion at work years ago. Besides being pretty badly burned, the explosion also knocked him down off of a platform about 14' up in the air. He has a chipped vertebrae in his neck and had a separated shoulder as well. And since then he has had horrible tendinitis in his right arm. So bad at times that he can't lift his arm up above his shoulder.

Last year he (purposefully) took a single sting right in the elbow. I administered it at his request. He came by for a couple more through the summer and the problem hasn't flared back up. It's fully anecdotal, but if you saw how he was before the sting and how he was a few days later... it was surprising. He and my grandpa used to keep bees in the mid-70s until varroa. They'd take bees over and sting my great grandma, who had arthritis. She swore by it.


----------



## snapper1d

Stings have never worked for me.


----------



## Canhona

I guess it depends on a lot of factors. I have a family friend whose wife will self treat her arthritis with bee stings every so often. She even asked me to bring one into church one evening for a treatment. LOL. She swears by it. Another buddy of mine threw his back out. He had his son (who was very willing, hehe) give him a couple treatments. He said it seemed to help a little, but not as much as he would of liked. Therefore, YMMV. 

As for the OP's knee, go for another treatment. Can't hurt any......well maybe a little, hehe.


----------



## jcolon

Try Egoscue. 
Save me tons on chiropractor since I started it. No more pain. Running is not an issue anymore.


----------



## Scott Gough

Keven Inglin does a podcast called Beekeepers Corner and he had a bonus edition with a person who does apitherapy. Here is a link to the video or audio...

http://www.bkcorner.org/?p=569


----------



## Tenbears

I would recommend you all go to your doctor and have your head examined! Or next time your knee hurts smash your hand with a hammer. won't notice the knee at all! 

:ws:

:ws:

Now don't get in an uproar. Only Joking :lpf:


----------



## Gene Pun

My 89 year old mother said `` Bist du verrickt?`` (Are you crazy in German) when I offered to give her a treatment but my knee is better and plan to do the next injection (sting) tomorrow. Wish me luck and I do have an eppi pen.


----------



## K9bees

WHAT! That would not go over well with my wife, whats wrong honey you have back pain? Wait here Im going to go grab a few bees and have them sting you, no its fine all the beekers do it! 

Lol just kidding have never heard of this.


----------



## hex0rz

Gene Pun said:


> Started doing some running and started having pain in the inner aspect of my knee and was very sensitive to touch. Stopped running and it was still really sore so decided to give myself a bee sting to the sore area. Well my leg really swelled up but the pain did decrease to the area. After four days the swelling has gone down and there is still minor discomfort to the area. I was thinking of giving my knee another treatment. Any comments?


Prolotherapy


----------



## CW Finnerty

You all sound crazy!

"Oh yah Doc, my back pain is gone for good this time."
"Good, what did you do to stop it?"
"I got stung by a bee."

However . . . if it works for you, go ahead, but I do not want any part of it.


----------



## Canhona

LOL you beeks. We might be crazy...but if it works it works right? Let me put on my google search hat and see what we can find......

Ok. Now take this is a grain of salt because I'm not a doctor...but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night so here we go!

"Also known as apitherapy, the technique is more widely used in Eastern Europe, Asia and South America"

"Most the 40 ingredients in bee venom have been identified," says Cohen. "Mellitin, an anti-inflammatory agent found in the venom, is one hundred times stronger than cortisone." Cool...didn't know that.

"Bee venom also contains a substance known as adolapin, which is both anti-inflammatory and pain-blocking. Practitioners believe all the ingredients in bee venom work together to cause the body to release more natural healing compounds in its own defense. Bee venom is also said to increase blood circulation and reduce swelling. 
""Fifty-eight percent had a very positive response and got significantly better," says Hauser. "But 30 percent had no benefit, and one patient got worse."

The patients who improved could walk and climb stairs better and had better bowel and bladder control, as well as more control over the activities of daily living.

The downside, according to experts, is that some patients can't endure the injections or bee stings. Says Hauser, "I've had patients who did very well with bee venom therapy but found the injections too painful." 


That last part sounds like me when I had the bright idea to "check my hive real fast" last year and got lit up. That is when I learned what robbing is and you really should have your gear when that is going down. Man that was a crappy day. lol.


----------



## ruthiesbees

I use bee venom therapy quite often for my arthritis. Usually one or two stings to my knee have me set for many weeks. I love it and it keeps me off my arthritis meds.

I have a facebook group for Apitherapy for some of you skeptics
https://www.facebook.com/groups/apitherapy/files/


----------



## Tim KS

My FIL would catch hornets by the wings with his pliers and let them sting his elbow multiple times. He said it helped his arthritis. I always wondered if the pain from the stings over-rode the pain of the arthritis and he didn't notice the art. :scratch:


----------



## Brad Bee

Hang with me for a minute. I have never been into alternative medicine. I'm sure there are natural things that work great for certain things, but I think most of the alternative things truly have a placebo effect.

I have a background in science and that perhaps makes me more skeptical than others when it comes to things like this. I suppose, due to the heavy dose of science, I am a researcher. When I take on a new task I research it. I read anything I can get my hands on, and the Internet has greatly increased the amount of information at my disposal.

While reading online about honeybees, it's hard not to run into information about bee venom therapy. I was very skeptical about it.

I have problems with both shoulders. I have a partially torn labrum in both of them. I also have bone spurs in my right shoulder. Two springs ago, my right shoulder had been hurting bad enough for long enough that I went to see a orthopedic surgeon about it. He told me I was definitely a candidate for surgery and gave me a cortisone shot to see if it would help. It worked great for about 5 days then the pain was back same as before. That's when I decided to try bee venom therapy. After all, it wouldn't cost anything and as a beekeeper who hates gloves, I get stung plenty often enough to know that I have no complications from stings. 

I poked around on my shoulder to try and find the pinpoint areas where the pain was the worst. I took a black sharpie marker and marked each area. The first time, I took 5 stings. The next day I took 3 and the next day 2. After about 4 days I had no shoulder pain at all. I noticed it most profoundly when I woke up in the mornings. No pain. I was amazed. That lasted about 2 months. The next time I only took 3 stings the first day and one the next. After that round I had no shoulder pain for 6 months. I have been doing this for 2 full years now and every time my shoulder starts hurting it only takes a few stings to completely stop the pain. I guess it was mid summer last year when I last stung my shoulder and that lasted until about mid January. Late February on a nice warm day I caught 3 bees and stung my shoulder on the pinpoint areas and it's all good now.

I'm still not convinced that most alternative medicines aren't mostly smoke and mirrors but for me bee venom therapy has been an absolute success. It's hard for me to imagine that it could be a placebo effect, because I have not once woke up at night in pain which was a daily experience before I tried the BVT.


----------



## Harley Craig

CW Finnerty said:


> You all sound crazy!
> 
> "Oh yah Doc, my back pain is gone for good this time."
> "Good, what did you do to stop it?"
> "I got stung by a bee."
> 
> However . . . if it works for you, go ahead, but I do not want any part of it.



I seriously pulled some muscles in my back last summer lumping a cast iron sink out of the countertop that still had the garbage disposal attached. The next morning I could not get out of bed or stand completly erect nor put my house slippers on by hand. The last time I hurt my back this badly I was down for about 3.5 weeks. I sent the 8 yr old out to the hives to get a jar full of bees and had my wife sting me in 5 spots on my spine. within 20 min I was able to stand up fully and also able to touch my toes. By the end of the day, I felt great and the next morning I popped out of bed like I was 20 yrs old again, been using bee stings for pain every sense. I also have a 4 yr old daughter with rhumatoid arthritis and she gets knots on her wrist that last for months the last time she got one she was sick and was unable to take her chemo that week. I iced it so the sting wouldn't hurt and administered a sting to the knot and her wrist swelled up like a balloon for a few days. When the swelling was down the knot was gone. So yall can call me crazy, heck call me anything you want but late for dinner, but this ol boy believes in BVT


----------



## Scott Gough

So how do you catch the bees out of the jar without getting stung on the hand or one getting loose in the house? I think I have heard of putting them in the frig for a little while to slow them down. If so how long do you put them in there?


----------



## Harley Craig

Brad Bee said:


> Hang with me for a minute. I have never been into alternative medicine. I'm sure there are natural things that work great for certain things, but I think most of the alternative things truly have a placebo effect.
> 
> I have a background in science and that perhaps makes me more skeptical than others when it comes to things like this. I suppose, due to the heavy dose of science, I am a researcher. When I take on a new task I research it. I read anything I can get my hands on, and the Internet has greatly increased the amount of information at my disposal.
> 
> While reading online about honeybees, it's hard not to run into information about bee venom therapy. I was very skeptical about it.
> 
> I have problems with both shoulders. I have a partially torn labrum in both of them. I also have bone spurs in my right shoulder. Two springs ago, my right shoulder had been hurting bad enough for long enough that I went to see a orthopedic surgeon about it. He told me I was definitely a candidate for surgery and gave me a cortisone shot to see if it would help. It worked great for about 5 days then the pain was back same as before. That's when I decided to try bee venom therapy. After all, it wouldn't cost anything and as a beekeeper who hates gloves, I get stung plenty often enough to know that I have no complications from stings.
> 
> I poked around on my shoulder to try and find the pinpoint areas where the pain was the worst. I took a black sharpie marker and marked each area. The first time, I took 5 stings. The next day I took 3 and the next day 2. After about 4 days I had no shoulder pain at all. I noticed it most profoundly when I woke up in the mornings. No pain. I was amazed. That lasted about 2 months. The next time I only took 3 stings the first day and one the next. After that round I had no shoulder pain for 6 months. I have been doing this for 2 full years now and every time my shoulder starts hurting it only takes a few stings to completely stop the pain. I guess it was mid summer last year when I last stung my shoulder and that lasted until about mid January. Late February on a nice warm day I caught 3 bees and stung my shoulder on the pinpoint areas and it's all good now.
> 
> I'm still not convinced that most alternative medicines aren't mostly smoke and mirrors but for me bee venom therapy has been an absolute success. It's hard for me to imagine that it could be a placebo effect, because I have not once woke up at night in pain which was a daily experience before I tried the BVT.



My daughters rheumatologist ( one of the best pediatric Rheumies in the nation ) Told me by law she can't prescribe BVT but she told me in the case of my daughters arthritis since its an autoimmune disease, her body doesn't recognize that it's attacking it's self so there is no cortisone dump produced by her body to battle the inflammation and a sting to the area triggers the cortisone dump and while it is working on the inflammation of the bee sting it also works on the inflammation of the arthritis. I'm not the scientific type but this made sense to me.


----------



## Harley Craig

Scott Gough said:


> So how do you catch the bees out of the jar without getting stung on the hand or one getting loose in the house? I think I have heard of putting them in the frig for a little while to slow them down. If so how long do you put them in there?


I have nucs with round entrances, kid suits up puts the jar over the hole and slaps the side of the box. Bees fly out and she screws on the screened lid. You can either mist them with water through the screen so they can't fly, or like you said I like to put them in the fridge after about 5-10 they are crawling very slow, If I just need one or two I go out and snag one off the landing board with the tweezers. Reverse tweezers work great.


----------



## Scott Gough

Harley Craig said:


> I have nucs with round entrances, kid suits up puts the jar over the hole and slaps the side of the box. Bees fly out and she screws on the screened lid. You can either mist them with water through the screen so they can't fly, or like you said I like to put them in the fridge after about 5-10 they are crawling very slow, If I just need one or two I go out and snag one off the landing board with the tweezers. Reverse tweezers work great.


Spray with water huh. I did not think of that. Thanks. 

How long do you leave the stinger in? The man that talked on the podcast that I referenced above I think left them in for 5 minutes.


----------



## Harley Craig

ruthiesbees said:


> I use bee venom therapy quite often for my arthritis. Usually one or two stings to my knee have me set for many weeks. I love it and it keeps me off my arthritis meds.
> 
> I have a facebook group for Apitherapy for some of you skeptics
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/apitherapy/files/


sent a request to join


----------



## Harley Craig

Scott Gough said:


> Spray with water huh. I did not think of that. Thanks.
> 
> How long do you leave the stinger in? The man that talked on the podcast that I referenced above I think left them in for 5 minutes.


on the 4 yr old, not very long by the time it's stops being numb from the ice stick there is no longer any pain. I leave them in me for 4-5 min or untill they quit pumping. The ice stick I made is a 6 in length of copper pipe cap soldered on. drilled a hole in the second cap and soldered it on then filled with a 50/50 mix of alcohol and water. Then I filled the hole with a sheet metal screw epoxied in. I freeze this and it gets so cold it will stick to dry skin. If you don't like the pain of stings, hold the ice stick on till it just starts to hurt and then sting.


----------



## Harley Craig

Scott Gough said:


> Spray with water huh. I did not think of that. Thanks.
> 
> How long do you leave the stinger in? The man that talked on the podcast that I referenced above I think left them in for 5 minutes.


if you have more bees in the jar than you need this will kill them prematuraly getting them cold just long enough to slow them down, they quickly recover when you put the jar in a warm spot. then you can keep them alive for a few days to a week feeding honey through the screen. I have cooled and pulled bees out 3-4 days in a row as needed.


----------



## Scott Gough

Thanks Harley for all the information. I have been wondering about this for a while. I like the "ice stick" idea.


----------



## Harley Craig

Scott Gough said:


> Thanks Harley for all the information. I have been wondering about this for a while. I like the "ice stick" idea.


leave it on too long it hurts worse than the sting LOL


----------



## jwcarlson

Harley Craig said:


> and a sting to the area triggers the cortisone dump and while it is working on the inflammation of the bee sting it also works on the inflammation of the arthritis. I'm not the scientific type but this made sense to me.


Thanks for posting this, Harley! Makes since to my thick skull.


----------



## Bee Bliss

FYI there is an Apitherapy (BVT) forum on Beesource. Lots of good info there. The jar system was explained years ago.

Bee venom has chemicals in it that are also present in the human body and some of them are the feel good ones! Venom also helps build the immune system.

One thing to keep in mind is that someone starting on BVT may experience a punk feeling within two weeks. That is because a large number of pathogens are being killed off and the body is a bit overwhelmed. Drink water to help flush. The sick feeling will go away. 

Bee venom allergy is nothing to fool with. Anyone starting BVT should do a test sting to check for allergy. Wait 15 minutes. EPI pens are good to have right next to you when doing BVT.

Do not sting on an empty stomach. 

Sting these areas:

1. Painful areas and trigger areas (spots that hurt when pressed firmly with a thumb)
2. Scars (eventually every inch all along the scar). Sting moles.
3. Spine (eventually every inch all along the spine - directly over spine or in pairs on either side)
4. Along nerve pathways (similar to acccupuncture areas)
5. Along infection areas. Also use propolis and honey mixture for open wounds.

Never sting eyes or ears. .(

Apitherapists suggest taking propolis, Vitamin C, royal jelly, honey, bee bread (pollen mixed with honey and aged 2 weeks on counter) orally especially while doing apitherapy. Your body needs the Vitamin C for repair work.

It is important to sting the spine as well as the problem area, because the nerves follow down the spine from the brain to the problem area. 

I always ice first and leave the stingers in for 15 minutes. I usually don't feel the ones go into my back spinal area, but my wrists and palm areas just above the wrist are quite tender. 

Wish I knew all this stuff when I badly broke my ankle in 2004. Ripped everything too. I may have a new "patient" as my son broke his elbow and may have tore stuff there. So much for that nice snowboarding vacation in Colorado!


----------



## Bee Bliss

Forgot to mention...............honey is great for pain and speeds healing of sun burn and temperature burns. Honey speeds healing and prevents/treats infection. Reduces scarring.

Get that honey on asap to stop the pain.

Sunburn? Get in the shower and slather on the honey and wait for about 20 minutes. Rinse.

We used honey on a kid's leg when he burned it on a hot motorcycle muffler. Bad burn that healed nicely with very little scarring. Honey kept the wound clean, moist, healed it fast and kept the gauze bandage from sticking. Honey stops the burn from burning. It seems to pull the water out of a burn blister and gets the skin to lay back down. Honey nourishes the tissues and keeps them oxygenated.

Take honey with you when you travel!


----------



## ruthiesbees

Harley Craig said:


> sent a request to join


I'd love to have you post your story on the FB page. While it's not just about BVT, I like to have the personal testimonies out there. Many of the Apitherapy members are beekeepers and the whole idea of using bees for pain is new to them.


----------



## Mr.Beeman

I have Apitherapy clients that rent nuc hives all season long. During winter months when the nucs are in my apaiary, they purchase bees from those same nucs. 
It is a lot cheaper than pain meds or arthritis meds and I make a few bucks as well. Win/win.


----------



## Brad Bee

Yall suck it up, no need for ice, just poke their butt to the hurting spot and get it over with.


----------



## Gene Pun

Thanks for all the responses. The pain in my knee is gone but to make sure I did give the spot another sting yesterday. I was surprised that there was barely any pain this time. The spot had a little reaction at site but no swelling of my leg this time. I don`t think it was placebo affect but who knows and as long as it worked I am a believer and will do it again if the pain comes back.


----------



## Notapro

I had severe left shoulder pain for about 18 months. I previously had surgery on my right shoulder so I knew the symptoms were the same an it was a torn rotator cuff and labrum. The re-hab from surgery was awful so I knew I did not want to go through that again which is why I lived with ot for 18 months. I started a series of stings 2 to 3 times a week at the most tender part of my shoulder for several weeks. It did not seem to be getting better so I stopped. After a couple more weeks I realized my shoulder was no longer hurting. 

Works on my worn out knee too!

Call me crazy if you want, but I am a believer!


----------



## Nabber86

Canhona said:


> "Most the 40 ingredients in bee venom have been identified," says Cohen. "Mellitin, an anti-inflammatory agent found in the venom, is one hundred times stronger than cortisone." Cool...didn't know that.
> 
> "Bee venom also contains a substance known as adolapin, which is both anti-inflammatory and pain-blocking. Practitioners believe all the ingredients in bee venom work together to cause the body to release more natural healing compounds in its own defense. Bee venom is also said to increase blood circulation and reduce swelling.
> 
> ""Fifty-eight percent had a very positive response and got significantly better," says Hauser. "But 30 percent had no benefit, and one patient got worse."


40 ingredients? Since when does the number of ingredients have to do with something being effective or not? Crude oil has thousands of ingredients, so I guess slathering you knee with oil is better. 

As as far as adolapin, classic symptoms of bee stings are swelling, inflammation, pain, and itching. Seems ridicules to say that bee venom relieves these things. 

"Natural healing compounds". Good grief, what is that?


----------



## Brad Bee

Nabber if you don't think it works don't try it

Where did you gather that the quote said the more ingredients the better? It doesn't. It just says that most of the 40 ingredients had been identified. Not sure how you could extrapolate that means the more the better.


----------



## kilocharlie

Stings help reduce pain in my knees quite a bit. I am quite tolerant of stings, having taken somewhere between 450 and 700 stings in a single day. 

Also helpful is Naproxen Sodium. One pill reduces swelling for as long as a week.

The following method was tried on me only once - it seemed to work for 2 days. A friend put low-grade Marijuana leaves in a blender with some rubbing alcohol, poured the puree into a pair of socks, and wrapped my knees with the socks. An hour later, the pain was gone. No "high", not a scientific study, I do not smoke the stuff. I was quite surprised, but the administrator of the treatment said, "Ask ANY Mexican". Most of them agree that it works for rheumatoid arthritis.

Which works best? Probably the Naproxen Sodium. What is best for the price? The bees, hands down. I would expect that results will vary for individuals.


----------



## Bee Bliss

Bee stings don't "cure" anything. Venom stimulates the immune response from the body including pain relief. Stings can awaken a sluggish immune system.


----------



## hex0rz

Like I have said, your better off getting prolotherapy.


----------



## GregB

OK, I think I am due for this treatment as well.
The overused runner knees take too long to heal and I have 3 weeks to recover before an event.
Bees are out. 
Time for few injections.
Have not done this before (not to the knees). 
Fingers crossed.


----------

