# Hacksaw based decapping tool



## JStinson (Mar 30, 2013)

Now _that's_ a good idea. 

:thumbsup:


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## Aric (Jun 3, 2011)

Thanks! Will get a better pic up once my FTP server comes back online.

Getting the length right was a bit of a pain, but not too bad and would have been easier if I had an old-school hacksaw that simply had a wingnut on the end. Much like guitar strings needing to be played a while before keeping pitch it stretched during use, but once it settles it it should stay taut fairly well. Smaller diameter might be better, but 0.014" is what i had handy and seemed to work just fine. Iirc a 1/4 pound spool was under $10 at McMaster Carr, and likely has several lifetimes worth of wire (half a mile or so....)


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## 22DPac (Jun 24, 2012)

for some reason I thought it said decapitating tool.... I was like... well don't know what you need that for... lol 


Looks like a great idea! hope it works for you.


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## Aric (Jun 3, 2011)

Works surprisingly well, actually. And dirt cheap to boot.


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

Simply ingenious, thanks for sharing your idea.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Can you connect it to an electricity source to make it hot? It's a good idea. Well done. How many frames did you uncap w/ this tool?


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## Aric (Jun 3, 2011)

Making it hot was my original intent, sqkctk, but figured I may as well try what I had on hand before ordering nichrome wire. And have to say, not being tied to batteries or an electric outlet is far nicer than I'd envisioned. Plus making it hot means insulating the collection points and dealing with stretch in the wire, and frankly I'd say it's not worth the bother.

Unfortunately McMaster Carr's website doesn't handle linking very well, so best I can do is www.mcmaster.com and search for stainless spring wire. They're one of the premier industrial suppliers on the East Coast, and absolutely fantastic.

Oh, and I uncapped one side of 10 medium frames with it. First two didn't work so well (went too slow), and the rest were easy (much faster and on an angle with a slicing motion).


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

I wonder if stainless frame wire would be too thick?


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## Aric (Jun 3, 2011)

I actually thought about using the frame wire I got from Draper Bee (my local-ish supplier), but it seemed too soft to keep straight. Almost strikes me as soft iron binding wire, and for this sort of thing a high-temper spring wire is more appropriate.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Slicing or sawing. I would think that a single strand smooth wire would work best. Not a guitar wire.


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

We have surgical stainless wire of various diameter...used for orthopaedic repairs...what diam (size) are you using? What is "spring" wire.


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## Aric (Jun 3, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> Slicing or sawing. I would think that a single strand smooth wire would work best. Not a guitar wire.



IIRC the B and high E wires on a guitar are plain (perhaps the G as well? Gave mine away years ago...), and only mention the guitar since that's the quick and easy way to find short lengths of small diameter spring wire.


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## Aric (Jun 3, 2011)

Oh, and apologies to the mods... Not here much and didn't see the equipment forum when posting from my phone.


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## McBee7 (Dec 25, 2013)

Do the cappings fall off? or do they kind of hang on, and stick?? either way I love the idea and will try it. Necesity is the mother of invention they say :} thanks

==McBee7==


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## Aric (Jun 3, 2011)

Definitely stick, but in a completely detached sort of way. Generally took 3 swipes to go across the frame (mediums, the long way), and then a bit of gentle poking with the wire to get the detached comb to pull free in sheets. 

Seriously surprised this isn't old news, so will see about checking my other hive this weekend and getting some video of it in action.


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## Aric (Jun 3, 2011)

WBVC said:


> We have surgical stainless wire of various diameter...used for orthopaedic repairs...what diam (size) are you using? What is "spring" wire.


"spring" wire is just that... wire used for springs. 

Which usually means a high carbon steel like 1080 or a work-hardened 300 series stainless, either of which are readily available as the smallest two guitar strings or in bulk from a place like mcmaster.com. (http://www.mcmaster.com/#music-wire/=s3kola) I used 0.014" diameter because that's what I had handy from another project, which involved hand winding very small torsion springs. Smaller would cut with less force, but would stretch more and be more prone to breaking.


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## F6Hawk (Mar 31, 2014)

Single-wire guitar strings can be had from .008~.020". Above that is typically wound wires. There shouldn't be much of a need for heat using such fine gauge wires.


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## Aric (Jun 3, 2011)

Did a bit of digging on McMaster's website, and have come to the conclusion that yes, you probably could heat this if you wanted. Would take a bit of electro-wizardry to keep the volts and amps in line with the max temp of the wire, but from a technical standpoint would be doable. 









Which is to say if "V=IR" doesn't ring a bell I can honestly say you probably shouldn't be thinking about heating the wire. And frankly, the 0.014" diameter wire I used passed through so easily it's not even worth the bother. Even if you're like me and happen to be an engin-nerd that happens to have a constant-current power supply on the shelf from the DIY anodizing setup. Small diameter wire just cuts so easily that heat isn't needed.


(lots of edits while trying to get the attachments to play nicely.)


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## challenger (May 27, 2009)

Great idea. I think heating would make the wax melt then harden back and stick. 
How about a 2 sided model? Slide the frame between two taught wires and get both sides at once. I suspect it may be a lot of tension but if the frame for each wire is not shared it would seem doable.. 
I don't think frame wire is stainless BTW. None that I've ever purchased is. MIG welding wire is a high carbon wire that can be stretched without breaking. I may try some. I don't think the wire would have to be as thin as mentioned but I can confirm this. Great find!


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## Sovek (Apr 27, 2014)

Aric said:


> Did a bit of digging on McMaster's website, and have come to the conclusion that yes, you probably could heat this if you wanted. Would take a bit of electro-wizardry to keep the volts and amps in line with the max temp of the wire, but from a technical standpoint would be doable.
> 
> View attachment 11085
> 
> ...


Correction, That is E=IR, not V, and for something like this, I think you might want the equation P=IE (not a joke, oddly enough)


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

That would play heck on a block of cheese too.....

Good idea.


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## F6Hawk (Mar 31, 2014)

Sovek said:


> Correction, That is E=IR, not V, and for something like this, I think you might want the equation P=IE (not a joke, oddly enough)


Correction, he had it right the first time. It was V=IR looonnnnggg before someone decided to label a Volt as Electromotive force.


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## borncamp (Jul 13, 2013)

Both are correct. Engineers tend to use E=IR where as Physicists tend to use V=IR. Different groups use different lettering. Either way they are equivalent.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Interesting!
Will a frame wire works for this? Or is it too thick or something else?
Maybe to use a frame wire on a screw end hack saw. I got one here.
At what angle or degree do you cut the comb?


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

sqkcrk said:


> Can you connect it to an electricity source to make it hot? It's a good idea. Well done. How many frames did you uncap w/ this tool?


Short answer is yes, if you use a non-conductive frame. I tried it a few years ago with guitar strings. Works, but I had trouble breaking wires.


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## juzzerbee (Apr 17, 2012)

Neat idea. How did the comb hold up through the process? It didn't get ruined or break did it? I have some very fine copper wire that I might try it with. Did you just run it right along the top and bottom bars? The comment made about making a 2 sided contraption sounds like something I am going to try to figure out if my copper wire works. Just today I posted a thread about uncapping knives and which route to go...sounds like the, "Aric3000" invention might be the best route to go. Thanks again, juzzer


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## Aric (Jun 3, 2011)

borncamp said:


> Both are correct. Engineers tend to use E=IR where as Physicists tend to use V=IR. Different groups use different lettering. Either way they are equivalent.


FWIW, V=IR was pretty much the first thing taught in EE101, so figured if that was unfamiliar then the equations that derive from it are also a mystery.


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## Aric (Jun 3, 2011)

juzzerbee said:


> Neat idea. How did the comb hold up through the process? It didn't get ruined or break did it?


Comb held up quite well once I got the technique down (took 2 frames), and has less damage than I would get using a scary-sharp carving knife. Quite literally the wire would sever the cells cleanly and the cut-off capping would adhere back to support the cut. From there a bit of off-angle scraping with the wire would drop the sheet of cappings. Would get video, but lots of rain here lately.


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

A guy at work brought me a few strings, I intend to try this. Aric, could you post what technique you changed to get it to work well? I envision you would hold it upside down to have the cappings fall off rather than lay there. The other thing was there was a bronze string he brought in. I figured I would put it in series and get the wire hot. I figure the resistance on the steel wire changes too rapidly and it would melt off quickly. I figure I either need to bring it up slow or simply turn down the rheostat after it is hot.


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## Aric (Jun 3, 2011)

Wow, that's an unhappy hive! Thought I could sneak in, get a pic of a frame and back out without suiting up or smoke, and boy was I wrong! Not surprising since I made a royal mess of that hive last week cutting out burr comb, sending unripened honey everywhere, which resulted in the queen being killed. I requeened them on Wednesday since there was absolutely no eggs or larvea, but guessing they're not feeling so safe yet.

Anyway, here are some pics....

Hard to get a good one without using three hands, but this is basically how I did it but with one hand on the frame and the other on the saw. Balanced it on a corner and then sliced through the comb on an angle using the top and bottom bars as a guide. I did it on the top side so I could see what was happening and so I could save as many bees as possible. Once cut through I turned it vertical and slid the sheet of cappings/burr comb off. What didn't work so well was having the wire perpendicular to the frame and trying to slowly push it through. Dunno if it was the slicing motion or having it on an angle that fixed the crushing problem, but it seemed to work better so that's what I used. Oh, and I did not need to heat the wire; only to keep it taut in the hacksaw frame.









This is one of the frames that got cut. Admittedly they have had a week to fix things up, but I don't see much sign of repair.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Click on this link; this is not the first time the idea has come up. http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...Wire-Decap-Honey&highlight=hot+wire+decapping


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## Aric (Jun 3, 2011)

Thanks, Crofter! Good to hear it had come up before, but that thread seems to be a lot of people who hadn't tried it debating the merits. 

Fwiw, it worked great for me as described above and I saw no need to heat the wire. If I can find a volunteer to video I'll pull a frame or two from the other, happier hive to show it in action.


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

"Thanks, Crofter! Good to hear it had come up before, but that thread seems to be a lot of people who hadn't tried it debating the merits."
Yes.
"Fwiw, it worked great for me as described above and I saw no need to heat the wire."
I used a coping saw frame and solid quitar string to make a similar device for cutting bars of homemade soap. It works well. I would like to see a video of your decapper. Cheers.


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

I sent David a PM, I hope he will come back and tell us what worked or didn’t. Sharing knowledge from years ago is what makes this forum so cool. I suppose it also means that your mistakes will remain for a long time!


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

David, said his $8 knife worked better.


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

Here's the old thread on my hotwire decapper. I lost interest before I got around to trying a heavier wire. The guitar wires were breaking too quick. Sorry the picture is no longer available. It was an square frame out of PVC with turnbuckles like the hacksaw has to hold the wire across the middle. PVC was too flexible. I'll do wood if I try it again. Radio shack power supply with reostat for the heat.

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?219872-Hot-wire-uncapper&highlight=decapping


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

Ross, could you see if you could find and repost the pictures? Seriously I follow your site for building things all the time and if you did not pull it off I am concerned since you are generally a step ahead of me. If I could continue the path though…
What do you use now?


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

I'll see if I can find them on my server.


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