# SHB trap - new thing on the market (australia)



## Robbo (May 11, 2008)

Hey fella's,

This got a run in the local magazine the other day.

http://www.apithor.com.au/

Anyone had a go with them yet?


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## fish_stix (May 17, 2009)

Not with that brand but here in the S.E. U.S. we have available a trap called a Beetle Barn which is baited with the same ingredient, Fipronil. Not approved for use in hives here; your government must be more intelligent than the U.S. Dept of Agriculture.


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## yantabulla (Jan 9, 2011)

Robbo did you get the Honey Bee News in the mail recently. There is some info on pages 26/27. Should be available now according to the article.

Thanks for the link.

There was a story on the ABC Science Show yesterday about SHB which may interest you

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/scienceshow/stories/2011/3161667.htm


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

Robbo,

We have started offering our shb attractant on our site. It comes in syringe type tubes with long thin tips so you can bait traps without pulling or opening the trap. Works really well and we are going to be setting up a few distributors in your country as well as nz soon.


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## max2 (Dec 24, 2009)

I have been an organic farmer all my life. I'm also realist and after loosing again 6 strong and productive hives in the last few months, I'm about ready to try most things. I change my AJ traps every 2 to 3 weeks and I still loose hives. The SHB is a real challenge here. " Apithor" has only been released a few weeks ago and it is to early to get consumer feedback. At $ 5.00 it is not cheap but if it saves my hives ( and I don't have to clean-up the mess) it is worth every dollar.
I have listened to the Science Show and have been aware of the research for some time. I have contacted the researcher again to see where things are.
Please, anybody using " Apithor" let us know how you are going.
thanks
max2


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

That wasn't intended as a sales pitch Barry... 

Max2,

Have been to busy to check into the ingredients... can you post what is in it, we may have already ran some tests on the same or a similar compound...

Thanks.


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## max2 (Dec 24, 2009)

" Fibronil" is the active ingredient. The clever part ( I think) is how it is "packaged" so that SHB can get to it but Bees can't.
http://www.apithor.com.au/images/pdf/ApithorLabel.pdf


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

:lpf: well, I can tell you that it will certainly kill the beetles... its humorous to me because its actually about twice the strength of the dose that I had recommended before on this forum. Lol. The kill will be very effective, but of course I can't tell you if the bait will be effective or if the trap will be inviting enough... I will pm you to give you a few more tips... I believe we had discussed this last year didn't we? Lol.


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## AR Beekeeper (Sep 25, 2008)

When I read the study that was done a few years ago when this trap or one similar to it was being developed, I found it interesting that Australia considered Fipronil less contaminating than cumophos.


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## Robbo (May 11, 2008)

so with the strength or dosage of chemicals in this device, whats the impact on the honey?

What is deemed chemical free, or organic in parts per million etc?

Im not an organic seller, but I dont want to be selling chemical laced honey - or are the traces of it so small it does not matter?


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

If the trap does not allow beetles to exit, there is no contamination, as the carrier is not a powder or liquid, but rather a paste that cannot be blown or spilled out of the trap... in studies using traps that did allow the beetles to exit, there were two main factors that were promising for hive use...

1... the beetles are naturally driven to gorge themselves once finding a food source where they are safe to do so (away from chasing bees)... this is part of their preparation for mating... so once the beetles entered the traps and found the bait, they would continue to feed on it long enough for the poison to take effect... an extremely low number of beetles actually left the traps, and the ones that did died very soon afterwards.

2... the beetles do not burrow into their food and the paste carrier is less likely to be rubbed off onto the beetles... after testing beetles for traces after feeding on the bait, the trace levels were extremely low and in most cases were undetectable using ppb measurements... fipronil traces were actually higher in testing wax from colonies that were working crops than in colonies that had been used for the shb studies.

Of course, in these studies, the dosage of fipronil was .22%... much lower than that of the product in question...


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## max2 (Dec 24, 2009)

Rob, if you read the test report on the manufacturers website you will find that the level of Fibronoil was " not dedectable". I have written to one of Australias most trusted bee researchers to get his opinion.


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## max2 (Dec 24, 2009)

I have heard back from the researcher and he says: "The residue work was conducted late last year and the results where excellent as far as residues are concerned. 
The devices seem to be highly effective in killing SHB. 
We expect to start another project next week to run over 6 weeks to measure the efficiency of this product. 
At this stage I think this could be the best option available to control SHB. "


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## PDG honey (Jul 31, 2010)

Finally something thats not oil filled.lol Very similar to what we use already, but I can reuse mine. I will buy a couple to test out if they will ship to me. Family from Australia is here this weekend. Gonna show off the hives. State Inspector said my hives are perfect. No beetles, mites, viruses, and/or foul brood. Just bees in a box. Likes my traps too.lol


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## tina (Apr 15, 2011)

Acute Toxicity of Imidacloprid to Bees

Compared to other commonly used pesticides, imidacloprid is one of the most toxic insecticides to bees. On an acute basis, the lethal dose to kill 50% of the population of adult honeybees (LD50) equals 0.078 micrograms active ingredient/bee (ug a.i./bee) for contact toxicity and 0.0038 ug a.i./bee for oral ingestion. Other insecticides that are as toxic or more toxic than imidacloprid include spinosad, emamectin benzoate, clothianidin, *fipronil*, thiamethoxam, and dinotefuran.[11] This is a quote from wiki


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## Robbo (May 11, 2008)

Whats all that mean? Anyone mind braeking down the above to laymans for us? Tah


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## valleyman (Nov 24, 2009)

AR Beekeeper said:


> When I read the study that was done a few years ago when this trap or one similar to it was being developed, I found it interesting that Australia considered Fipronil less contaminating than cumophos.


I would guess that Australia doesn't have as many well funded lobbyist. Or maybe like here which ever company that has the best/most lobbyist, or maybe the same company that makes more profit from one product than the other. Isn't that how it works here? I think so!!


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## tina (Apr 15, 2011)

basically fipronil can be poisonous for bees


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## b2bnz (Apr 5, 2009)

John Pluta of georgiabees.blogspot.com has the same system and has a number of videos on the subject. But at the end of the day it is just a cd cover modified with a small enterance so the SHB can get in but not your bees, and an ant poision.


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## max2 (Dec 24, 2009)

I tried some Apithor traps ( they are different from CD cases) and kept going with the AJ traps which I change and clean about every 10 to 14 days. On Sunday when I changed the traps I did notice considerably fewer SHB ( it is of course also getting cooler here) - indeed in one hive I could not find a single SHB. So far positive on Apithor.


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

b2bnz said:


> John Pluta of georgiabees.blogspot.com has the same system and has a number of videos on the subject. But at the end of the day it is just a cd cover modified with a small enterance so the SHB can get in but not your bees, and an ant poision.


ANT POISION? That is completely illegal in the US. Hope this guy isn't selling honey off of these hives!


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## fish_stix (May 17, 2009)

It's not ant poison. It's roach bait. Approved for use in food processing areas. If you use the Beetle Traps or CD cases as directed it's impossible for bees to get to this stuff. There's no residue. It works, but only if you want to farm bees instead of SHB! If you'd rather have the SHB just wait around a while, they'll get to you sooner than later.


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## valleyman (Nov 24, 2009)

They are getting really brave in South Central Ky. So I have combat roach gel. I have thin cd cases with about an inch broken out of each side. I have some bad honey so my question how should I mix it to bait them to come inside and feast (and die)? How much honey to how much combat?


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## max2 (Dec 24, 2009)

I don't put any honey in the trap. The idea is ( and it works) that the bees chase the SHB and the go into the traps , eat the stuff and die.


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

Ant poison, roach bait, either way it is illegal and could result in hefty fines.

I kept bees in KY for 6 years without having to resort to putting un-approved poisons in the hives. Proper ventilation, full sun light and strong colonies will work wonders on controlling SHB.

Looking at this Jokers web site he states that he is putting ant poison in the hive. States that "he puts it there to kill ants, and if it kills a few 1000 SHB in the process so be it" Then goes on to say that the Government is gonna have a fight on their hands.....

Not very smart in my opinion.


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## fish_stix (May 17, 2009)

bluegrass; why don't you move back to KY now and try to raise bees with the recent invasion of SHB? There have been many, many posts by beeks from KY and TN about the loss of hives to SHB. Maybe you need to get out of your little dream world. In the South we don't have a choice; the government isn't doing anything about the SHB; universities very little. As usual, it's beekeepers who want to keep live bees, not absconded and slimed hives, who are doing the research and finding solutions. As for your solutions, they don't work! Strong hives draw SHB because they have a wealth of brood and honey. All my 250-300 hives are in full Florida sun, with screened bottom boards, I keep them strong, and I still have major problems keeping SHB under control. All the solutions to Varroa in the beginning were illegal too, but what do we do? Wait for endless studies, while thousands of hives die off? Eventually, YOU will get SHB, maybe for only part of the year, but you'll be crying a different tune. It takes about a week for them to take over a hive and ruin it with slime and ugly, stinking little worms by the pound.


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## delber (Dec 26, 2010)

Fish Stix I am new to beekeeping, however I don't see Bluegrass stating that he doesn't care about his bees. Perhaps there's some history that you two have I don't know, but there are many different challenges w/ many possible ways to "cope" with them. I realize that Florida is very different from Pa. However it does seem to me that we need to submit to the governing authorities as long as it doesn't contradict God. I have had issues and am still having some minor issues w/ SHB and would love to know about new and "improved" methods of control. One question I do have in seeking to follow the "rules". . . would it be wrong to put up roach traps near our hives? To perhaps draw them to those different areas rather than near our hives? I'm just thinking that if this trap draws SHB then perhaps they are drawing them to our hives and if we place them away from them it may help more. What are all of your thoughts about that? I have been thinking of doing this very thing in my area. For now it does seem that the bees are keeping the SHB at bay, but who knows what will happen in a week or two because from what I've read it can happen very quickly. I'm also thinking that SBB's may not be the way to go. I'm using upper entrances and have never seen a SHB enter into the entrance, but if they can get in through the SBB using 1/8" hardware cloth that is a problem. Does anyone else have other thoughts?


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

Fishstix:

My stent of keeping bees in KY just ended last October when I moved from Lexington to Connecticut. I really doubt that the SHB infestation has become so severe in a single season.

Not living in a fantasy world, but thanks for the concern... As far as mites go... Some guys running 1000s of hives, like Beeweaver haven't treated in 10 years. There are better ways to manage these problems without breaking the law and risking the public health. If you are having problems then obviously what ever it is you are doing isn't working and you need a new management approach.

On a side note, it amuses me that the people who are most likely to scream about Government interference in our lives are also the first to make a statement like


> the government isn't doing anything about SHB...


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

delber said:


> Would it be wrong to put up roach traps near our hives? To perhaps draw them to those different areas rather than near our hives? I'm just thinking that if this trap draws SHB then perhaps they are drawing them to our hives and if we place them away from them it may help more. What are all of your thoughts about that? I have been thinking of doing this very thing in my area. For now it does seem that the bees are keeping the SHB at bay, but who knows what will happen in a week or two because from what I've read it can happen very quickly. I'm also thinking that SBB's may not be the way to go. I'm using upper entrances and have never seen a SHB enter into the entrance, but if they can get in through the SBB using 1/8" hardware cloth that is a problem. Does anyone else have other thoughts?


I don't know about putting the traps near your hives, but I have seen roaches in my life, and if a roach can get into it, so can a bee, so keep that in mind.

SHB are not native to this country, they move around the country with the bees. If you acquire your bees from somebody with a SHB problem, you will have a SHB problem. Keep that in mind when purchasing bees. Also research has shown that the SHB is attracted to Alarm pheromone and the best time for them to enter a hive is when it is on alarm. High speed cameras have been used to record the SHB flying into open hives during inspections when the bees are busy defending against the beeks and not worried about a few little Beatles. So keep that in mind as well. Go into your hives with a purpose and a goal and limit the amount of time they are left open.


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## max2 (Dec 24, 2009)

"There are better ways to manage these problems"
Most of us prefer not to use poisons. Personally I would be most interested to hear what the " better ways " are? bluegrass, could you please post some deatils how the big beek's are dealing with the SHB? thanks.


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## max2 (Dec 24, 2009)

"I don't know about putting the traps near your hives, but I have seen roaches in my life, and if a roach can get into it, so can a bee, so keep that in mind."
I think there are misunderstandings about the traps - the SHB traps which are sold in Australia have a very small opening - big enough for the SHB to enter but not bees or roaches. Nobody ( as far as I know) is suggesting to use roach traps.


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## max2 (Dec 24, 2009)

Here is a detailed description of the trap which started the discussion. It is NOT a roach trap and the device has been tested before it was made available to the public http://www.apithor.com.au/


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

Much of the post #28 was not correct. 

Shb, travel across the nation by flight... and can cover much more ground than a honey bee or varroa ever could. 

Shb are attracted to strong hives... this is what directs them to the colony while they travel... they can detect 2ppb (parts per billion) of pollen from miles away... its one of the strongest senses known... if you have bees, you WILL have to face shb one day... sure they came from the tropics, but so did honey bees, keep that in mind before you underestimate them... they are far more destructive than any mite, disease or other predator has ever been... bees and shb do not and can not coexist together naturally unless the bees have no winter, continuous forage, and swarm/abscond multiple times all year long in order to rebuild as shb move in... this type of lifestyle requires small colonies, tiny combs, and lots of aggression... the combination of all of these things is the way bees survive in Africa, but these things would also be impossible in the US...

Shb is not attracted to the alert pheromone of honey bees, these pheromones are released constantly as bees frantically chase shb inside the colony... what attracts them to the yard is the high pollen amounts of a strong hive(s), what attracts them to a slimed high is the slime itself as it is a mixture of fermented honey, pollen, and shb pheromone which acts as a deterrent to honey bees so that the shb larvae can safely feed to reach adulthood... once one shb's larvae begin to emerge from the eggs, the slime that they produce serves as both a honey bee deterrent and an attractant to draw in more beetles telling them that this colony is safe to lay their eggs in.

Don't want to fight about this, but anyone that has not truly faced a full shb invasion, should try not to get on to others that have, nor try to dissuade those that have not from being prepared... shb is the most serious threat that our industry has faced as of yet... we ALL need to work together if we want to continue to have bees at all... again, bees can get around shb, but winters and the need for large colonies and production without swarming and absconding are what will limit that... best to fight the beetles rather than each other...

The government is not the answer to this problem, just like they were not the answer to the mite problem... bee keepers working together is the answer. And those that are able and willing to try different things and study the results are the ones that keep us moving forward.


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

bluegrass said:


> I don't know about putting the traps near your hives, but I have seen roaches in my life, and if a roach can get into it, so can a bee


I think he was referring to the "small roach traps" that are indeed intended for small roaches and thus have openings that are too small for bees to enter.

Ineffective for several reasons, mainly being unable to inspect the trap to ensure that the bait is still good and that the trap is not filled with too many dead beetles...


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## max2 (Dec 24, 2009)

Thanks for your post Russell. It is also what I find - having my best, most productive, strongest hives attacked. I need to be on the look-out all the time, all year round.
I very recently heard of a beekeeper who lost 51 of his 52 hives. I don't know the details but it the SHB is a scary trouble maker. Yes, by working together we will learn to live with it too.


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

Max2
I really can't make any claims for what would work for you in Auss, It is a totally different climate which is on a completely opposite season from ours, so you will have to look into the research for your part of the world.

As far as post 28 goes... My information has come from several journal articles I have read.

Feel free to read the research your self.

Hood WM. 2004. The small hive beetle, Aethina tumida: A review. Bee World 85: 51-59.

Ellis JD. 2005. Reviewing the confinement of small hive beetles (Aethina tumida) by western honey bees (Apis mellifera). Bee World 86: 56-62.

Elzen, P.J., J.R. Baxter, D. Westervelt, C. Randall, K.S. Delaplane, F.A. Eischen, L. Cuffs, & W.T. Wilson. 1999. Field control and biology studies of a new pest species, Aethina tumida Murray (Coleoptera: Nitidulidae), attacking European honey bees in the Western Hemisphere. Apidologie 30: 361-366

My comment about the Alarm Pheromone being an attractant I originally read in hood WM 2004, But it is verified in this link from the USDA. http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/nov07/beetle1107.htm

And just to throw in a new fact that most don't know; guard bees feed their cornered SHBs. The beetles rub the antenna of the bees and it stimulates them to throw up.

As far as management goes, traps are very effective in bad cases, I like CD cases lined with fly tape which is non-toxic. Traps baited with cantaloupe are also very attractive to SHB. (It is surmised that they where brought to this country in a shipment of Cantaloupe from Africa.)

Place your hives on non-sandy ground, in full sunlight. Maximum ventilation and low humidity in the hive reduce the hatch-ability of the SHB eggs. The non-sand ground prevents the larva from pupating. 

They do not tolerate cold weather very well, which is one reason why they are not common in the northeast. I only see them in hives the first year a hive was started from a supplier down south, after the first winter they die off. The areas that have the biggest issues with them are the places that migrators frequent, the deep south, the midwest etc. suggesting that they travel with the bees and not by flying long distances. They do fly very well and very fast, but they are not spreading around the country by flight.

They are very easy to control outside of Florida and Georgia which are ideal climates for them to live in and have massive amounts of bees wintering every winter. I truely believe they may very well end the industry for those two states, but they are not very adaptable to more northern climates.

There has been a ton of research done on them in the past 10 years, just get to the library and start reading it... Simple steps as outlined above can go a long way in reducing your SHB population.


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## DirtyDusty (May 21, 2011)

Is anyone trying to get the USDA to allow flipronil to be used in hives under an emergency status?


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## utahbees (Jun 30, 2011)

This seems to accomplish the same thing and would be much cheaper... and some consider Boric Acid less contaminating...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_KDPp8H6PU


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## max2 (Dec 24, 2009)

Thanks bluegrass for the extra information. Some of my hives are in full sun ( not sandy soil) with good ventilation and there are no migratory beekeepers in my area. Some of my hives are in semi shade. It seems to make no difference the the SHB.
I'm constantlyreading up-dates and at our club we have a few very innovative beekeepers...sadly all have pretty major problems.We shall keep battling on and trying new ideas. Thanks for youe suggestions.


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## max2 (Dec 24, 2009)

" This seems to accomplish the same thing and would be much cheaper." - not sure how easy the traps are to replace with a couple of supers on top? And I would bet that my bees will glue up the holes...
Has anybody tried it and done some comparisons?


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

Holly!!! We don't have a problem like this, not even in the south.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfzWhiheOWw&feature=related

The SHB was eradicated from Portugal, I have been unable to determine how they went about doing it though.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Anyone using Boric acid in CD cases?


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

bluegrass said:


> Holly!!! We don't have a problem like this, not even in the south.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfzWhiheOWw&feature=related
> 
> The SHB was eradicated from Portugal, I have been unable to determine how they went about doing it though.


We don't like to think there are problems like this here in the states but I would wager that we do...a strong hive that's "forgotten" sitting on the backside of a field neglected and left to rot away would be a prime breeding spot for the SHB. There is a hive about 3/4 mile from me that has me worried...sitting in an already shady area with bushes growing around it. I'm scared that I will already have a local SHB population going when I set up my bee yard. I'm going to contact the guy that owns it and see if we can inspect it, in the meantime I'm going to contact the land owner and do a casual walk-by inspection. Ed


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## davel (Jan 29, 2011)

Help me here because I had a thought...What if I placed a cantaloupe outside the hive in an enclosure of #8 hardware mesh. I could inject something in the cantelope that would kill the hive beetles when they eat it. It would keep the beetle and the poison out of the hive and would kill a bunch at a time.
What would I use? Boric acid, fipronil, roach bait???
Help with suggestions. 
Thanks.


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## johnblagg (May 15, 2011)

Intheswamp said:


> We don't like to think there are problems like this here in the states but I would wager that we do...a strong hive that's "forgotten" sitting on the backside of a field neglected and left to rot away would be a prime breeding spot for the SHB. Ed


just found a old log full of bees that were exactly that bad this week ...just after it was collected the bees absconded and when it was spilt open thousands of shb larva in it ready to head for the ground and pupate .....in fact they were pupating in the soft rotting wood as well.Tell me that was not spreading them in massive numbers!


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

davel said:


> Help me here because I had a thought...What if I placed a cantaloupe outside the hive in an enclosure of #8 hardware mesh. I could inject something in the cantelope that would kill the hive beetles when they eat it. It would keep the beetle and the poison out of the hive and would kill a bunch at a time.
> What would I use? Boric acid, fipronil, roach bait???
> Help with suggestions.
> Thanks.


You could use ground drench and after you buy cantaloupes and what ever poison your cost would be about the same.

The "fish tub" in the video gives me an idea to place one under the hives, it will fill with water and the beetle larva will drown when they jump from the hive. Place a few goldfish in it and they will grow big and fat.


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## johnblagg (May 15, 2011)

a freeman trap uses a pan under the ssb filled with oil to do just that...


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

bluegrass said:


> Holly!!! We don't have a problem like this, not even in the south.


Where have you been?? That's nothing... one slimed hive can produce 5 times that many larvae... imagine hundreds, thousands, or the hundreds of thousands that are slimed in the US... now try to imagine what the wild (feral and swarms) colonies in the US are facing...


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

rrussell6870 said:


> Where have you been?? That's nothing... one slimed hive can produce 5 times that many larvae... imagine hundreds, thousands, or the hundreds of thousands that are slimed in the US... now try to imagine what the wild (feral and swarms) colonies in the US are facing...


The video isn't a full colony, that is a relatively small amount of comb in the bottom of the bucket for that many grubs


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

Shb lay about 2,000 eggs per female in an area of about 1-2 square inches. Once the first eggs begin to emerge, the pheromones that are produced by the feeding larvae draw in other lay-ready females to come to the same area as the original eggs to lay... they do this because the slime produced from the feeding larvae acts as a deterrent to run the bees away from that area of the hive... this is to provide a safe place for their larvae to feed and grow... one frame can hold millions of eggs during this period, so when that frame is removed and the comb cut out and placed in a bucket (as the gentleman in the video had done), there can be millions of larvae emerging in the bucket as long as there is a food source... when the food source is depleted, the eggs can lay dormant for over a year awaiting nutrient rich feed before they emerge.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Russell -

Since you are in the thick of SHB playground, how do you make sure they don't leave your place with your bee shipments?


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

Great question Barry, I feel its very important to inform people of ways to try to keep them down when shipping bees... as you probably know from other conversations, we use cd traps heavily to limit their populations in our mainland yards... there are many other operations near our nuc build up yards however, and that is always a concern for me because not everyone can go through the effort and expense of fighting shb on a consistent basis... we have not lost any hives this year to beetles, but of course mating nucs are a different story altogether.. oddly enough, our mini nucs have not had nearly as much of a problem as our full sized 2 frame, 3 frame, and five frame deep mating nucs have had... again, the higher amounts of pollen are the calling cards that draw in the beetles... our packages are all shaken and shipped in February only, so they are all gone well before the spring shb migrate in...(for those that do not know, shb can over winter in a hive with ease... we use specific timing and disturbances to draw the shb from their hiding places within the hives and into the traps during the late fall of each year so we can go into winter without shb)... so packages are safe due to the timing of their production... queens are safe of course... so nucs are our biggest concern... in addition to keeping traps in all of the hives, we also use traps in the nucs... our summer nucs are pulled in the spring, so they are at that weak point during the first wave of beetle migration... during this period it is important to keep a check on the nucs every few days to stay ahead of any sliming so that those frames can be removed immediately to keep from losing the nuc... this happens on somewhere around 15% of spring made nucs during that first wave... overwintered nucs seem to pass right through that period with no troubles at all... but as most know, the most critical time is late summer... that is when the second wave of beetles come in from all directions and the wild colonies (swarms and ferals) as well as other beekeepers hives have served as shb breeding grounds once they have been slimed... so the number of young shb seeking a place to breed and lay has been multiplied by the thousands many times over... we try to get all of our nucs out before this time has started, and again we maintain fresh traps in the nucs as well as keeping the nucs as strong as possible... bottom line is, nucs are going to house shb... that's a sad but true reality... its not just a southern issue either as shb have migrated to nearly every state and has been getting a better foothold in the north each season as natural selection continues to help them to breed more winter hearty beetles... which will in time allow them to overwinter in places other than just bee hives such as logs, garbage dumps, etc... we all will have to stay vigilant and work together to stop this pest where ever it is.


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## New Bee (Nov 3, 2010)

Does anyone know if SHB larvae leave the hive to pupate at regular times eg. when it's dark or in daylight only or at anytime?


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

New Bee said:


> Does anyone know if SHB larvae leave the hive to pupate at regular times eg. when it's dark or in daylight only or at anytime?


I've seen it mentioned that they leave at night. Makes sense kinda...they probably don't want the hot sun burning down on that white (though tough) body.

I'm wondering.... If you had a hive with a solid bottom board and figuring the larvae leave through the front door, would a non-climbable trough suspended or placed on the ground directly below the edge of the landing board be a good trap for emerging larvae? I'm just not sure about the larvae's ability to climb smooth surfaces...if they can't climb them then the trough should hold them until the next day when the sun could bake them nicely. As it has been stated to me...the best solution is not to let them get to that stage...but seems almost impossible with magnitude of damage and infestation that lots of people are stating. Being in Alabama I feel like I will be faced with a very large army of shb. ;(


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## johnblagg (May 15, 2011)

somewhere I saw a tray that attached to the front entrance and had a screen cover like a sbb and was oil filled they fall in and die...problem is if you let them get big enough to want to leave it is too late isnt it?


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

But, if they can't crawl out then they would just die and no issue with having to keep oil in the trough or the mess associated with that.

It has been noted that if you have to deal with shb larvae that it's too late for the colony. Seems though, that as a stop-gap measure to prevent a higher population of shb in the area that in the event that a hive is indeed destroyed by beetles and larvae emerge, that some way of preventing them from reaching the ground or destroying them once they do reach it would be worthwhile.

Ed


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## johnblagg (May 15, 2011)

saw a post on utube I think I guy had a bucket full of then and they can crawl out of it so I dont think anything without something to drown them is going to stop them getting out.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

johnblagg said:


> saw a post on utube I think I guy had a bucket full of then and they can crawl out of it so I dont think anything without something to drown them is going to stop them getting out.


Ok, Russell....what climbing ability does the shb larvae have once off of the comb?

Ed


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## hemichuck (Oct 27, 2009)

Bluegrass,Just for the record,We do have that problem here in Kentucky. I have lost several hives and nucs to SHB in the last year. I have also picked a bunch of SHB up in feral hives that I cut out. I was at a seminar last year in Indiana with Kent Williams and he talked specifically about SHB problems and what to do about them and he seems to think the key to controlling the population is to put crushed limestone under your hives because they have to go to ground to pupate so the limestone cuts the skin of the larvae while they crawl over it to the ground and causes them to dry out. Seems simple enough to try, and theres plenty of limestone in Ky.


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

snl said:


> Anyone using Boric acid in CD cases?


I have tried it.I cant say if it worked or not but I think it did.I could see that they had eaten on it but I could not see dead beetles.I think that it did work because I couldnt see any beetles in the hives.I think boric is a slow poison and therefore they were probably dying outside of the hive or the bees were carrying them out.I was mixing it up in a paste and the paste was drying out and getting hard and I think they were not eating or were having a harder time eating it that was.


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## ptwat (May 1, 2008)

I have been using beneficial nematodes (H. Indica) and have seen a total of less than 15 hive beetles all season in six hives.


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

Intheswamp said:


> Ok, Russell....what climbing ability does the shb larvae have once off of the comb?


A very proficient one sorry to say... the larvae emerge from the hive to the around at any time, day or night... they do so on a path of slime which cools surfaces and gives them grip... they will climb straight out of a 55 gallon drum even... 

I am all for people putting down shingles, pea gravel, black plastic, limestone, pine bark, etc... the most cost efficient method of controlling the spread for apiaries with larger numbers of hives is to use permethrin 38% as a ground drench around hive AS they are being slimed... to be effective, this requires one to stay on top of the issues so that they know when a hive has been slimed... permethrin has been approved as a ground drench around bee hives in doses up to 40% and is commonly sold to bee keepers under the brand name Guardstar which is rediculously high in price since it is marketed solely to this industry... however, permethrin is readily available in many lower doses for about 1/3rd the cost... the 38% is just as effective and can be found at nearly any farm/feed store... apply at night on windless days... cover the ground well in a four to ten foot circumference around the target hives... this method will kill any larvae that make it to the soil for up to 30 days, but of course rain can dilute the formula and you should clean up slimed hives as soon as possible because they will draw in more shb from miles away.


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## Robbo (May 11, 2008)

I saw a note the other day that reported that the apithor units were being chewed out and could cause contamination within the hive with all this chewed out litter.

Any confirmed reports of this from any of the clubs or bee keepers?


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## yantabulla (Jan 9, 2011)

Robbo, 

I recently noticed that the finish on some of the traps is not very good. I have had one where a corner had come away which could have allowed access to a very persistent bee. I also saw another one where one of the glued welds was imperfect which may have allowed limited access by bees.

Have not seen baits chewed out by beetles if that's what you mean.

Otherwise since I started using them I have sighted only one or two beetles in my hives. There are plenty of them flying in at dusk.

Yanta


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

I have not tried this but will next year. Will add some pollen sub and melon to the mix.
Going to use empty water bottles, have tons of those and can dispose of them when done.

Trap outside the hive, looks easy to monitor and change. if it even catches a few, than that’s a few less the bees have to mess with.

You could even put it in the top cover to trap them inside the hive

BTW no poisons 


http://www.beeworks.com/informationcentre/small_hive_beetle.html


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## New Bee (Nov 3, 2010)

rrussell6870 said:


> A very proficient one sorry to say... the larvae emerge from the hive to the around at any time, day or night... they do so on a path of slime which cools surfaces and gives them grip... they will climb straight out of a 55 gallon drum even...
> 
> I am all for people putting down shingles, pea gravel, black plastic, limestone, pine bark, etc... the most cost efficient method of controlling the spread for apiaries with larger numbers of hives is to use permethrin 38% as a ground drench around hive AS they are being slimed... to be effective, this requires one to stay on top of the issues so that they know when a hive has been slimed... permethrin has been approved as a ground drench around bee hives in doses up to 40% and is commonly sold to bee keepers under the brand name Guardstar which is rediculously high in price since it is marketed solely to this industry... however, permethrin is readily available in many lower doses for about 1/3rd the cost... the 38% is just as effective and can be found at nearly any farm/feed store... apply at night on windless days... cover the ground well in a four to ten foot circumference around the target hives... this method will kill any larvae that make it to the soil for up to 30 days, but of course rain can dilute the formula and you should clean up slimed hives as soon as possible because they will draw in more shb from miles away.


I had some correspondence with Dr Jamie Ellis at University of Florida on this topic. I am sure that he would not mind if I quoted what he said...



> SHB larvae can crawl quite a distance. In fact, I suspect they can crawl more than 20-30 meters in an evening (though, I don’t believe that anyone has measured this). I know that they have escaped my lab where we rear them, crawl out of the lab, and down the hall. I’ve seen them go at least 20 meters in an evening.


As to making some sort of plinth or barrier between the hive and soil he is quite adamant...



> i... t likely is not worth attempting to put something under colonies to stop them (ie. SHB Larva) because one would have to cover a relatively large area.


This leaves chemically treating the areas around hives I suppose. However would there not be at least local environmental issues with this?


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## fish_stix (May 17, 2009)

The Gardstar ground treatment is an approved chemical treatment. My only problem with it is that by the time the larva reach the treated area, the hive they came from is history. If you think that Australian video was bad wait until you go into a beeyard with 36 hives, find buckets full of larva crawling out the entrance, fermented honey running out, slime by the gallon and not a live bee anywhere. Happened to me many times over when the SHB first invaded in the 90's. Out of business! Lost 150 hives in a matter of a couple months, my brother lost several hundred. I started using the Fipronil traps 3 years ago when my son and I started back into the business again, haven't lost a hive to SHB since then. However, we have had them invade the honeyhouse; you cannot leave cappings or honey sitting around for even 2 days or they will be crawling with larva. My advice is to listen to Bob Russell and others who have been there, done that. I'll take Varroa any day over SHB.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

fish_stix said:


> you cannot leave cappings or honey sitting around for even 2 days or they will be crawling with larva. My advice is to listen to Bob Russell and others who have been there, done that. I'll take Varroa any day over SHB.


Sounds like an opportunity to trap them inside your honey house

Take a frame of honey put it inside a bucket or box put screen on top 1/2 way down the bucket, put fly paper on screen, then put 1/8 hardware cloth on the top of the bucket to keep bees out. if you have a frame that is slimed even better.


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## fish_stix (May 17, 2009)

And why would I want to do that? I could trap millions of larva and it doesn't affect the population of SHB in the hives one iota. We clean up the honey house after each use and melt cappings right away; solves the problem without messing with maggots.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

Maybe outside your honey house would work better and around your bee yard, there would not be maggots just beetles stuck on fly paper while attempting to get at the smell of the honey/or bait of your choice. 

You have to fight them one way or another, if it is possible to eliminate some of them before they enter the hive it can only help right. 

http://www.beeworks.com/informationcentre/small_hive_beetle.html
This was taken from the above link "UPDATE Finally, at long last someone has tested the theory of attracting SHB to an external trap, which I suggest some years ago, and the answer quite simpley is 'It works'. A number of beetles were found in test Wax Moth traps, the manufacture of which is discussed elsewhere on this site.
This really is fantastic news when considered carefully and opens up a whole new method of control. It means in effect that a number of traps can be placed around the yard attracting beetles from within the yard, but equally attracting and trapping them from outside as they approach the yard.
Needless to say this will effectively reduce the volume of SHB around the hives and combined with other treatments could reduce the overall impact on honey production from those hives infected with this pest."


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## Bsupplier (Dec 23, 2008)

I have had hives in Kentucky for several years and have noticed the SHB gain a stronger foothold every year. While I have a lot of my hives on crushed limestone and I have spread agricultural hydrated lime around the hives to help kill larvae leaving the hives. While this helps, it is not enough to control them completley. I believe the SHB has to be attacked on all fronts possible. I am experimenting with a trap of my design to catch the adult beetles before they enter the hives. My concern with this is it turning out to be like Japanese beetle trap, drawing even more beetles to the proximity of your hives. Setting these up at some distance may help. Early results look good but I have a way to go. I have seen small roach traps moving across solid bottom boards because of the numbers of beetles crawling under them in the deep south. One thing I have been experimenting with is salt. It has been my observation that bees to some degree seek salt. I have seen them drinking from brackish water (along with butterflys) and we all know they are attracted to swimming pools. I live on a small lake and have a pool and I get a lot of bees visiting my pool. I believe it's because of the salt content. And who hasn't seen bees licking sweat from our bodies in the yards. The co op sells a salt that is used to mix with animal feed that is really cheap. While using solid bottom boards in our commercial operation I have had the extreme displeasure of dealing with slimed hives. It is quite the horror show. When we are trying to save hives we will transfer frames to clean boxes and bottom boards and salt the new along with the old after having scraped them as clean as possible. IMO this has had no adverse effects on the bees at all. It is our reasoning that a larvae leaving the hive to pupate in the ground will be dessicated by crawling through the salt. Just throw some into a bucket of salt and see what happens. This spring I will be mixing salt water in 25 gallon sprayers and treating all the ground in our yards. I believe this will help to control the weeds and any pupating larvae of the SHB. We are also working on a product for screened bottom boards that involves salt. Remember, this is only my observation in a short time of using it but I like what I am seeing so far.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

The salt experiment sounds interesting. One thing that I'm curious about in regards to using salt as a ground treatment/drench is whether it would be an attractant for whitetail deer. We have herds of them around here. Definitely could be a useful vegetation suppressor and if a side benefit is beetle grub suppression that would be great. Might salt work in the pans of traps rather than oil, or would the beetles walk out of it too easily?

Ed


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## Bsupplier (Dec 23, 2008)

I would imagine you would attract Deer and Cattle with the salted ground. Definitley something to think about if you dont have hot wires or where Deer could be a problem with other desirable plantings. However, during hunting season....


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

I don't know if they would do it or not, but my concern would be deer possibly toppling over some hives. ??

Ed


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

For deer you could just place a salt block away from the hives. Hive should be fenced from cattle regardless if there is salt or not.

I think you would need allot of salt to make the ground deadly to the larva and would need to be replenished often depending on rain.

Bsupplier How are your traps designed? What do you use for bait? Might try slimed/fermented honey (freeze it to kill any eggs)


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

No cattle grazing so no fence. I'll probably just pass on the salt and figure the deer will naturally avoid the bees. Keep us informed of the experiment, Bsupplier.


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