# Xentari: BTA for treating Wax Moth



## vdotmatrix

For those who use XENTARI ( bacillus thuringiensis, sup. aizawai ) to control wax moths, I am looking for the amount of XENTARI to add to ONE gallon of water to control wax moths. What I found for CERTAN was 1:19 in water....

On this forum I see any where from 1 teaspoon to 4 teaspoons per gallon...to control wax moths...

Anyone have any ideas who use this product?


----------



## G3farms

I use 3 teaspoons per gallon of water.

I usually get about 30 deep frames per gallon.


----------



## KQ6AR

I use i tsp dry powder per gal, & it works fine.
If I'm not mistaken certan in in a liquid solution, so it would be different.


----------



## GSkip

How is it applied? Sprayed on foundation and woodenware? How often does it need to be reapplied? Can it be used on brood frames and honey frames?

I hate wax moths and SHB's!!!!!!


----------



## G3farms

I do freeze all of my frames for a couple of days before misting with BT. 

Be sure to mix well in the water. 
Yes just a fine spray from a hand held spray bottle or if you have many to do then mix a small batch in the garden sprayer. Just be sure to get a fine mist down into the cells, no need to drench them, if water is pouring out of the cells you are just wasting it. 

Just a good misting and down into the cells.

Let them air dry before putting them away. We stand the frames up on end three or four together, they look like tepees scattered all over the yard. If put up wet they will usually mold a little.

I like to take an outer cover and turn it upside down on the floor and then stack supers up with news paper in between each super and then top off with another outer cover (a piece of plywood could be used for this). 

The mix will only be good for 2 maybe 3 days before it starts to go bad. 

Mix in small batches, easier to mix more than throw it out.

Don't inhale the BT powder!

Clarification to my earlier post (my wife usually does the spray work)........
2 teaspoons per gallon
about 30 deep frames or 45 mediums per quart

Yep sounds like a lot of work but sure is nice to pull that stack apart next spring to some very nice comb!!


----------



## KQ6AR

It kills larva wax moth larva when they start to eat frames. I use it on frames that are going to be stored off beehives for future use.
The frames can be used as brood frames or honey frames once the BT dries.

If a living beehive has wax moth problems the hive is too big for the bee population. Its best to reduce the size of the hive.


----------



## vdotmatrix

I contacted VALENT and the representative was only mildly helpful. 
*do not use any formulation in this thread from me here until I hear back from the state entomologist*

The XENTARI product is meant to be used comercially on a grand scale and the directions for use on the product insert are so useless for beekeppers because the intended use is really for crops as in POUNDS per ACRE which he said translates to a tablespoon per gallon but for our application he said a FOURTH TABLESPOON per Gallon.

To me this was a little too imprecise for me and I told him. I would like to feel good about something in grams per liter or something.......SO he directed me to my state entemologist at Virginia Tech and I am waiting to hear from him I guess on Monday.


----------



## oldfordguy

XENTARI is a biological pesticide that targets the lepidoptera order of insects; it is only effective when ingested by a lepidoptera (in this case wax moth) larvae. The concentration is therefore not that critical, as the liquid here is more of a transfer agent.

I've been using it for about 4 years; 1/2 teaspoon per about a liter pump sprayer. No wax moth problems. I just spray all extracted combs and any dead-out combs.


----------



## Ravenseye

Here is a picture of the instructions for Xentari BT. I've highlighted the area for mixing small amounts. You'll have to decide if you want a strong dose or a weak dose. I use the high end of the scale when I mix my solution. The highlighted instructions are for a one gallon mix.


----------



## vdotmatrix

"The concentration is therefore not that critical, as the liquid here is more of a transfer agent. I've been using it for about 4 years; 1/2 teaspoon per about a liter pump sprayer. No wax moth problems. I just spray all extracted combs and any dead-out combs."

Alright I am sold....I read the lit on BTa, and no matter how many times I read it the word insectacide still imprints on my head like neon......but now it makes sense that [concentration] and water is a transfer agent now make a lot more sense. Why would they make instructions to make a strong or a weak solution in a gallon. Questions of efficacy come into mind....

I'll go with the 3/4 teaspoon per gallon equivalent per gallon..


DEATH TO WAX MOTH LARVAE !!!!!

THANK YOU ALL 



Ravenseye said:


> Here is a picture of the instructions for Xentari BT. I've highlighted the area for mixing small amounts. You'll have to decide if you want a strong dose or a weak dose. I use the high end of the scale when I mix my solution. The highlighted instructions are for a one gallon mix.


----------



## WBVC

On the wax moth issue.

I saw wax moth on stored empty frames for the first time last week. I put them on the hives. 

Will the bees clean it up?

I also have several deeps of capped honey...way more than is practical to freeze in a home freezer and once out of the freezer aren't they once again lunch for wax moths? Do wax moths eat up capped honey frames?

Thanks.


----------



## KQ6AR

The entomologist should tell you its not approved for bee hive use in the US.
He/she wouldn't jeopardize their job by telling you how to use it.



BeeBad said:


> I contacted VALENT and the representative was only mildly helpful.
> *do not use any formulation in this thread from me here until I hear back from the state entomologist*


----------



## Bob Anderson

Strong solution versus weak solution? Larvae just have to eat more comb before dying with the weak solution... But, since it doesn't take much to kill them it isn't too big of a concern.


----------



## vdotmatrix

I think this product was certified for wax moth but the certification ran out and it cost BIG DOLLARS to re-certify a product to target one class of organisms as BTa does , so there it is-the bottom line.....


KQ6AR said:


> The entomologist should tell you its not approved for bee hive use in the US.
> He/she wouldn't jeopardize their job by telling you how to use it.
> 
> 
> 
> BeeBad said:
> 
> 
> 
> I contacted VALENT and the representative was only mildly helpful.
> *do not use any formulation in this thread from me here until I hear back from the state entomologist*
Click to expand...


----------



## sc-bee

Yep it ran out... why would you, beekeeper, pay $$$ for it bottle as bee use when you could get the same identical active ingredient for pennies for use on crops. Wonder why they let it expire


----------



## Terry L Barker

Not sure if this is the chemical I was told about but the older gentleman told me to spray the solution in a 3 ft diameter around the bee hive it would kill the larvae that was in the ground around the hive. I think he was talking about wax moths when he told me this. Just wish I could remember, lol


----------



## jbeshearse

Terry L Barker said:


> Not sure if this is the chemical I was told about but the older gentleman told me to spray the solution in a 3 ft diameter around the bee hive it would kill the larvae that was in the ground around the hive. I think he was talking about wax moths when he told me this. Just wish I could remember, lol


Waxmoth larva pupate in the hive so a ground application would have no effect. SHB larva pupate in the ground, but Xentari is probably the wrong nematode for them.


----------



## vdotmatrix

OH GOSH......XENTARI is specific for WAX moth and it is NOT a nematode, I think it is a bacillus. What I think you are talking about is the Heterorhabditis indica nematode that seeks and destroys white larva grubs like SHB and japanese beetles.


jbeshearse said:


> Waxmoth larva pupate in the hive so a ground application would have no effect. SHB larva pupate in the ground, but Xentari is probably the wrong nematode for them.


----------



## jbeshearse

vdotmatrix said:


> OH GOSH......XENTARI is specific for WAX moth and it is NOT a nematode, I think it is a bacillus. What I think you are talking about is the Heterorhabditis indica nematode that seeks and destroys white larva grubs like SHB and japanese beetles.


You are absolutely correct and I am absolutely wrong, not a nematode but a bacterium. Thanks for the correction. But as I said, no effect on wax moth when applied as a ground drench as the moths pupate (and more importantly, feed, in the hive. No effect against SHB either.


----------



## vdotmatrix

Well it a breath mint and a floor wax.....


jbeshearse said:


> You are absolutely correct and I am absolutely wrong, not a nematode but a bacterium. Thanks for the correction. But as I said, no effect on wax moth when applied as a ground drench as the moths pupate (and more importantly, feed, in the hive. No effect against SHB either.


----------



## tedlemay

How do you store after spraying? Do you stack with tops and bottoms to seal them up or stagger them for ventilation?


----------



## GaryP

My local co-op has BT K. The Kurstaki? strain.

Is this ok to use? And why not if not good? I am trying to takle some recently inherited hives that have wax moth infestations.
I am freezing what I can in shifts for 3 days at a time but SWMBO is not happy about loss of freezer space...and wax crumbs...

so looking for something else to use before storing. Not sure I want to use crystals after reading about them.


----------



## vdotmatrix

DO NOT DO ANYTHING WITH OUT RESEARCHING THE USE OF THIS PESTICIDE IN YOUR HIVES OR WOODENWARE OR YOU WILL KILL BEES.
What about (BTa) do you not understand? Please look up XENTARI and read the insert and read everything you can find on BTa.



GaryP said:


> My local co-op has BT K. The Kurstaki? strain.
> 
> Is this ok to use? And why not if not good? I am trying to takle some recently inherited hives that have wax moth infestations.
> I am freezing what I can in shifts for 3 days at a time but SWMBO is not happy about loss of freezer space...and wax crumbs...
> 
> so looking for something else to use before storing. Not sure I want to use crystals after reading about them.


----------



## GaryP

I was simply inquiring if BT k strain will also work as well. It is labled for many food crop uses including moths.
If you know the difference I would love to hear it.
Otherwise, thanks for you input and I will continue to research.


----------



## vdotmatrix

yes yes...I dont want anyone to do the wrong thing.Please read the original post and find the distinction between BTa and BT and BTk and so on....cheers!


GaryP said:


> I was simply inquiring if BT k strain will also work as well. It is labled for many food crop uses including moths.
> If you know the difference I would love to hear it.
> Otherwise, thanks for you input and I will continue to research.


----------



## soarwitheagles

A gentleman asked earlier in this thread if it was ok to spray a solution also on the bees and larvae.

I too am interested if it is possible to apply Xentari to an entire live hive when bees are present.

Anyone know the answer to this?

Thank you.


----------



## Arbol

I can't find the thread the search algo isn't up to par here, but the last 2 yrs the consensus has been not to spray the living colony.


----------



## Arbol

Not for your frames, this is for another type of grub.
easy to do the research, go read the differences and learn.



GaryP said:


> My local co-op has BT K. The Kurstaki? strain.
> 
> Is this ok to use? And why not if not good? I am trying to takle some recently inherited hives that have wax moth infestations.
> I am freezing what I can in shifts for 3 days at a time but SWMBO is not happy about loss of freezer space...and wax crumbs...
> 
> so looking for something else to use before storing. Not sure I want to use crystals after reading about them.


----------



## vdotmatrix

I have sprayed the entire colony with xentari lightly. Of course WM appear on brood comb,...its good stuff.


----------



## tedlemay

tedlemay said:


> How do you store after spraying? Do you stack with tops and bottoms to seal them up or stagger them for ventilation?


any comments on storage after spray has dried?


----------



## Kenww

Do you spray the same frames every year or does it stay active?


----------



## soarwitheagles

I did quite a bit more reading and research regarding using Xentari. Found an interesting fact:

Low Impact on Workers and the Environment

With its highly specific activity and natural origin, *XenTari does not harm important beneficial insects such as bees for pollination,* insect predators, and parasites used in control of other insect pests. XenTari is also not harmful to humans, wildlife or the environment, providing growers with much-needed flexibility.

Hope this helps!

https://cropprotection.valentbiosci...crop-protection/insecticides/products/xentari


----------



## Bob J

GaryP said:


> I was simply inquiring if BT k strain will also work as well. It is labled for many food crop uses including moths.
> If you know the difference I would love to hear it.
> Otherwise, thanks for you input and I will continue to research.


BTk is the wrong strain for wax moths..... You need BTa.....


----------



## Bob J

tedlemay said:


> any comments on storage after spray has dried?


I store in a stack with no gaps and a telescoping cover on top... Gaps can lead to mice problems....


----------



## FlowerPlanter

It is a pesticide, use it as per label don't go over board. Don't spray bees, larva, food....

"reduced longevity of honey bee adults but did not cause disease"

http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/24d-captan/bt-ext.html

Everything you give your bees effects them. Even an inert comb treatment, maybe little to no effect on their over all health but what if combined with a mildly toxic miticide treatment and/or slightly toxic essential oils added to feed, then the pesticides, fungicides and herbicides found on nearby crops.... Just something to keep in mind.


----------



## tedlemay

Bob J said:


> I store in a stack with no gaps and a telescoping cover on top... Gaps can lead to mice problems....


Thanks!!


----------



## stasn

If I extract honey from frames that were treated with XenTari BT? Will BT get into honey?


----------



## merdoc

So where do buy this at thanks.


----------



## Rader Sidetrack

There is a some chance of finding Xentari / Bt v. aizawai at a garden supply / farm store, but Xentari is readily available from the usual web merchants (Amazon - Ebay). Whoever you buy from keep in mind that Bt is more or less dehydrated/'sleeping' _live creatures_ and Bt is packaged with an expiration date. I suggest buying from someone that will assure you of fresh / not expired Bt. For more on Bt expiration see this thread:
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?330234-Xentari-BT-Old-Stock


----------



## vdotmatrix

i targets the wax moth larva. You can spary it anywhere you'd like but not on honey supers. I have sprayed it all over , even on the bees....no ill effects to the bees...


FlowerPlanter said:


> It is a pesticide, use it as per label don't go over board. Don't spray bees, larva, food....
> 
> "reduced longevity of honey bee adults but did not cause disease"
> 
> http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/24d-captan/bt-ext.html
> 
> Everything you give your bees effects them. Even an inert comb treatment, maybe little to no effect on their over all health but what if combined with a mildly toxic miticide treatment and/or slightly toxic essential oils added to feed, then the pesticides, fungicides and herbicides found on nearby crops.... Just something to keep in mind.


----------

