# Apply "Farm to Fork" marketing for the little guy



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

How much more so? What are you getting for a one pound jar of honey? How much more w/ the "Track and Trace" hangtag?


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## honeyman46408 (Feb 14, 2003)

Well our wonderful state is now requireing a lot of what you have on your tag + an experation date :doh:

I dont do markets I sell *Local Honey*


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## mythomane (Feb 18, 2009)

Some producers already do this. The problem is, when the guy next to you sees what you are doing, he just gets some cards and fills them in at random. He suddenly has "non-medicated honey" too, even though he pours on the Apistan. When questioned about my honey, I simply tell them it comes down to who you trust. It is the same with produce, etc. There is one joker around here who sells at "growers only" farmers markets. All 13 of them. On the same day. He just gets someone off of craigslist to sit in the hot sun all day. His sign says "Buy Direct from the Beekeeper." Yeah, right.


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## Deeptime (Jul 21, 2009)

Yup, "Trace n Trace" (TNT), is coming to ALL food production. They work out the bugs/paperwork/legal issues of the system with the big commercial guys and then just keep pushing it down to the smaller operators and eventually the hobbiest. I'm of the opinion, "don't fight it, use it to differentiate yourself". Give the consumer MORE info than the minimally required. The consumer is far more educated/opinionated now, food is no longer just a commodity, what he wants is clean, safe, "green-grown" food. So give them what they want.

Now here's the (humorous, I hope) disclosure: I haven't sold a single pound of honey, not even an ounce. I will shortly, but to be honest I haven't sold one single plastic bear's worth the honey (yet).

I just applying what has worked wonderfully well in the poultry biz I have worked in for 25+ years where profits are razor thin, and the competition is always will to undercutting you on price. ("They know the value of their product better than me")

Here's some further (probably contraversial) marketing thoughts for consideration...
1--The guy in the booth next to you states his honey is never stored in a steel drum, and he has a poster showing muddy, rusty drums with a honey label on them. (the honey version of a PETA livestock downers video, and probably just as effective)
2--all his product is in glass. He'll sell/give you an empty plastic bear, but "prefers his honey be stored in glass until the last possible moment".:no: (plays off the perception/fear of leaching).
3--If asked, he admits some of his hives are medicated ("out of necessity for the bee's well being") but that honey from medicated bees is NEVER mixed with his honey from his nonmedicated hives, he sells that into the "generic/commodity honey business".("I'm not organic, but I'm as close as I can get", "I document all my medication schedules and exceed all govt regs on withdrawal periods, would like to see an example on my laptop?").

***Now what is interesting about this is that your operation doesn't have to 100% fit this scenario. We can raise organic, Kosher, pasture-raised, nonmedicated and just plain o' just-poultry...and we do,--- meeting the demands of each sub-niche the market offers. If I was serious about marketing honey, I'd do the same there.


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## Deeptime (Jul 21, 2009)

mythomane said:


> Some producers already do this. The problem is, when the guy next to you sees what you are doing, he just gets some cards and fills them in at random. He suddenly has "non-medicated honey" too, even though he pours on the Apistan. When questioned about my honey, I simply tell them it comes down to who you trust. It is the same with produce, etc. There is one joker around here who sells at "growers only" farmers markets. All 13 of them. On the same day. He just gets someone off of craigslist to sit in the hot sun all day. His sign says "Buy Direct from the Beekeeper." Yeah, right.


Yup, that the way the market operates. We spent tons of money working out our Animal Well-being Policy. It top notch and expensive. Competition claims to have one too, not (IMO) as good as ours, but it open our markets to him, whether thats fair or not. There are always shysters you have to contend with, but that doesn't mean you have to abandon the mkt to them.

Abuse of medication will always be a problem, especially at the small-guy level. The cost of testing is coming down, the need for tax revenue (fines) going up, expect more scrutiny. Medium to big guys should be able to afford certifying of the honey with outside lab results. Every semi load of fat I buy has written certification accompanying it that shows the results of testing for herbicide and pesticide residue. I realize I have economy of scale, but the logic still stands. (good place for somebody to post Apistan testing lab costs).

Regarding "some joker off CraigList..." Great! You can spot those guys a mile away. What do you need to do so your booth attendant isn't mistaken for one of those guys???? Have them smile? Be well versed in the product??? Enthusiastic??? A true-believer in our product??? Smartly dressed???? Polite????

Everything you can successful do to raise the preceived value of your product is a barrier to your competiton entering your niche.


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## bamindy (Apr 14, 2009)

While I like the idea, I haven't had an issue selling "local honey" from my front yard (off of a state highway) by just putting up a few signs. I sell it as "raw honey" and explain crystalization, point at my hives in the backyard, etc... to the buyer. I even tell them that the only things I put into the hives are the 3Ws (wood, wire, wax) but tell them that there is no such thing as organic. I don't medicate, haven't medicated, and don't feed. Mother Nature decides who gets to make it through the winter and I produce more hives from those survivor colonies. 

I tried to sell at a local farmers market but when I went to set up there was already a beekeeper there selling "organic honey". I found it quite amazing that he can produce "organic" honey and sell it for $10/lb when his hives are no more than 100 yards from the public golf course and surrounded on three sides by soybeans (the roundup resistant type). I suppose that it is up to all of the rest of us to educate the consumers of our product to keep guys like that clown from gaining an edge based on false advertisement and playing on the ignorance on the majority of the people purchasing the product. I agree with the previous posts about "trusting the source" and am gaining quite a following for my locally produced honey in my little community.


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## Deeptime (Jul 21, 2009)

For your size, location, I think you are correctly marketing your honey. It seems a little bit of "you" goes into each bottle, and as Martha Stewart sez, "that's a good thing".

Lastly, if your neighbor is fraudulantly selling honey as organic...turn him in.


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## mythomane (Feb 18, 2009)

It is hard to keep a tight leash on your bees. Unless you are deep in the desert or in the far north they are probably on flowers they shouldn't be. The bottom line is that 95+% of the chemicals found in hives are placed INSIDE by the beekeeper. If someone asks me if my honey is organic, I explain that it is as close as they are likely to get. It is very risky not treating my bees (I have lost quite a few since 96) in a risky business to begin with, which is the reason I get full retail on my product. When I saw the talk given by one of the workers from Merrimack at EAS (25k hives, heavily treated) she says that she tells customers that nothing is "organic" when they ask. Maybe so, but there are degrees of purity. If you are dumping stuff in there you are being compromised by treatments. It is all a matter of degree.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Deeptime said:


> Give the consumer MORE info than the minimally required. The consumer is far more educated/opinionated now, food is no longer just a commodity, what he wants is clean, safe, "green-grown" food. So give them what they want.


Now I don't know anything about marketing poultry and I certainly don't know your customers, but I am a firm believer in telling people what they need to know, while giving them what they want.

I don't explain anything. Unless asked, I don't say anything on my label or in advertising other than what I am selling, "Honey", where it is from "North Country", and who produces it, "The bees of Squeak Creek Apiaries". "Natural North Country HONEY from the bees of Squeak Creek Apiaries". Other than the address and phone number and the weight, that's it. Except for the varietals which indicate which floral source the honey came from.

Unless asked, don't volunteer any info. Most people don't read anything unless they are really interested in knowing. And most just want honey from someone near by. Very few want to know details. And those that do, I find, think they know more than they do.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

mythomane said:


> The bottom line is that 95+% of the chemicals found in hives are placed INSIDE by the beekeeper.


Actually this is wrong and at best a gross exageration, according to what I heard from Maryanne Frazier at the POllinator and Pesticides Conference in Alfred,NY. 95% of the different chemicals found in bee hives are brought in by the bees. Percent in volume, I'm not sure about. And I don't know if anyone does.


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## bamindy (Apr 14, 2009)

If they don't ask - don't tell them - totally disagree. This may be the military's policy but I am trying to sell honey and build trust with the consumer. I am as open with my customers as possible about the honey because I have nothing that I am trying to hide and most people are just fascinated with the whole beekeeping concept anyway. If they want to buy some low-grade honey from an unknown source I send them to the local super market. A lady was "price shopping" me over the phone the other day and said "well, it is cheaper by the pound at Kroger's". I told her it was even cheaper at Wal-Mart and she thanked me for the tip. haha.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

But what is the point of telling someone what they don't want to know? I didn't say "Don't tell them anything." and I didn't say to withhold information. I just know that people don't read signs and people may read these hangtags once, but once they have read them they won't read them again. So you have spent money unnecassarily.

But I expected this sort of response. I understand how you can misunderstand what I wrote.

Does the author of this Thread tell people that when they slaughter their chickens that they cut their heads off and hang them on the clothes line until all the blood drains out of them. And then the carcasses are dunked into boiling hot water to loosen the feathers? Do customers really want to know all of the details? How do you know which details to tell them? How do you know what your customers want to know? How do you know when too much info is too much? Or enuf is enuf? How much is enuf?

bamindy, what is on your label? When someone comes up to your booth at the farm market do you start by telling them everything you think they aught to know? Or do you say, "Hi, would you like to try some honey? I stole it from my bees."


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## mythomane (Feb 18, 2009)

sqkcrk said:


> Actually this is wrong and at best a gross exageration, according to what I heard from Maryanne Frazier at the POllinator and Pesticides Conference in Alfred,NY. 95% of the different chemicals found in bee hives are brought in by the bees. Percent in volume, I'm not sure about. And I don't know if anyone does.


I am talking about volume here, and there are studies to show this. I am not sure what you are talking about? You are refering to the percentage of the make-up of chemicals?? What?


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## bamindy (Apr 14, 2009)

sqkcrk - my label has my name, phone number, XX oz Raw Honey, and the harvest date. I mostly sell 12 oz bears and quart jars and print the labels off on the home computer. As far as the booth at a farmer's market goes, I mostly stick to word of mouth advertising in the local community and putting some signs up in the yard. I live in a pretty rural area where if your kid gets in trouble at school the person at the gas station asks you about it. As far as honesty goes, I do have some labels printed up with "Bee Barf" on them. I think that most people understand that the honey is "stolen" just like milk and eggs are "stolen". I printed the labels up as a joke but people have bought them, probably more for the novelty of it. I don't think they will be putting it on their biscuits any time soon but my $4 sale bought me some more free advertising sitting on their desk at work.


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## Deeptime (Jul 21, 2009)

sqkcrk said:


> Does the author of this Thread tell people that when they slaughter their chickens that they cut their heads off and hang them on the clothes line until all the blood drains out of them. And then the carcasses are dunked into boiling hot water to loosen the feathers? Do customers really want to know all of the details? How do you know which details to tell them? How do you know what your customers want to know? How do you know when too much info is too much? Or enuf is enuf? How much is enuf?QUOTE]
> 
> Thank you, you make a good point by asking these types of questions. And as a company whose products require the killing of the animal to obtain the products we market as compared to eggs or milk or wool, our frontline people need to be ready to answer those types of questions. And those answers need to truthful, forthright, and unambigious. (as ours should be in answering "Honey" questions). That aspect of the biz is not gone into unless we are asked, but if asked, we do not hesitate to answer. Do you have a crafted answer to somebody who asks ("I saw it on the news last nite...") you how you handle/dispose of a hive that is heavily infected in with AFB?
> 
> ...


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

bamindy said:


> sqkcrk - my label has my name, phone number, XX oz Raw Honey, and the harvest date.


So, you do exactly what I do. Sorta. Why don't you do what you advocated and tell people through your label all the things you think they might want to know?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Deeptime said:


> Do you have a crafted answer to somebody who asks ("I saw it on the news last nite...") you how you handle/dispose of a hive that is heavily infected in with AFB?


I never hesitate to answer questions asked. As you may have noticed. And that is a question I have never had from a honey consumer of mine. Though I have had plenty of questions which people were prompted to ask because of something that they heard on the news. 

I try not to "craft" my answers. I try to address each question as if it were the first time I was asked it of me. I worked at Colonial Williamsburg, Wmsbg, VA for 5 years talking to 1,000 people a day sometimes, answering the same question over and over again. The public can tell when you are just repeating the same words over and over again. It's hard to keep it fresh. Buit we learned to answer the question that was asked. Which is usually what the questioner wants to know. Just like the consumer of your jar of honey.

What sells your jar of honey? Most of mine is on a shelf in a store. I don't do farm mkts. I wholesale. I believe that what sells my Honey is a plain straight forward label which identifys the Honey as being from the area and then Name Recognition. I had a guy at a machine repair shop, who I don't know, who told me that my honey is the only honey she will buy. Even though they have to travel 20 miles one way to get it. He saw the name on my van. My van sells my honey.


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## Bens-Bees (Sep 18, 2008)

> + an experation date


Experation date: Jan 20th, 5775


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

Since we are a federally inspected facility we already do alot of what you are thinking.
On the label is our name and address. The product name, grade and color. a lot number and ingredient list. Each yard has a number and each yard is given a lot number for each round of extractions.
We have a paper trail for our honey. We keep track of all we do to our honey and bees and when.
Our honey is tested at the packers by lot. When we get inspected, our first honey gets tested as well.
I have attended farmers markets where there are beekeepers selling their honey who are not inspected. They sell their honey...some the same price, some higher and some lower. When there are multiple honey producers, I make a point of telling them I am inspected. Some buy from me because of it, alot though, buy because of tasted and price. Sometimes i loose out on the price because i charge a bit more.


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## Deeptime (Jul 21, 2009)

I'd have a copy of my inspection cert where all can see it. We do that with our "animal welbeing" certs.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

What kind of inspection certs r u refering to?


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## Deeptime (Jul 21, 2009)

Any time, any part of your operation has an inspection and you get a certificate (that states "you passed"), post it (or a copy) where you can get some free advertising out of it. In light of the current food-egg salmonella issue, consumers are trending toward wanting even small-guy inspections. From hives to honey-house.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Okay. But I don't have anything but my hives inspected. And I really doubt that anyone would read them if I posted them in my honeyhouse. Apiary Inspections don't say anything about the quality of the honey that I put into my jars.

Do you think I should post Apiary Inspection Reports on my website? I don't think I should or will. Do you? Do you post them on your website?

I may be way out in left field, but I really believe in telling people what they need to know and answering their questions when they ask. But not fully exposing every detail of what I do and how I do it. And, I don't consider that hiding anything.


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## Deeptime (Jul 21, 2009)

sqkcrk,
You forget I'm a just a small-time hobbyist. But, that said, When the state gets around to inspecting my hives, the insepction cert will go in my honey-sales-kit file. Certs are not a big thing, but the sum of a lot of little things can make an impact.


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## melliferal (Aug 30, 2010)

sqkcrk said:


> What sells your jar of honey? Most of mine is on a shelf in a store. I don't do farm mkts. I wholesale.


Seems to be the disconnect right there. You're talking about two completely separate customer bases with somewhat different wants and needs.

I don't do store shelves. All the honey I've sold is face-to-facing at the farm market or the fair. Believe me when I tell you that the people who buy honey in those places, for the most part, _do_ read any tags or booklets you put in the bag with their jar of honey, and they _do_ have all kinds of questions. When you are _the_ beekeeper selling his honey at the farm market, people are going to consider you an authority on bees and honey (however justified...or not, ha...) and they are interested in what you have to say. You can present yourself as an informed authority or you can present yourself as someone who wants them to hand you money and then leave as soon as possible.

People at a grocery store don't want to be there. They want to scoop what they need off the shelf and then leave. Of course _they_ don't want anything more than your name and the word "honey" on the bottle, because yeah - they already know what they need to know.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Well, I will say, that if all of the things mentioned do contribute to increased honey sales, then do them. Do what works for you and under your circumstances. IMO Apiary Inspection Certificates is beyond necassary. But, I guess you never know.

When it comes to marketing, I don't know what size has to do w/ it. Other than, perhaps, what practices are practical or neccesary.

On top of that, Apiary Inspection Reports don't mean much to me, so I can't imagine that they would mean much to a customer.


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## melliferal (Aug 30, 2010)

I've got to admit that Inspection Reports don't strike me as the kind of thing that would interest or impress a customer either. I mean, here's a piece of paper saying "this guy's hives pass inspection", but what does "PASS" mean, vis-a-vis honey and bees? Does the average customer know what it takes to pass an apiary inspection? Probably not. Such a report would be pretty worthless to a customer, I can see what you mean there.

When I said "people have all kinds of questions", I didn't mean of the suspicious/paranoid variety..."How do I know you _really_ don't put all kinds of chemicals in the honey???" Generally speaking, people are willing to believe your honey is safe. But the ones that have bought my honey are interested in what I have to say about why they made the right choice in buying from me and not Other Beeman.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Actually none of the Apiary Inspection reports that I have ever gotten, or issued, say anything about "Passing" Inspection. 

They report the findings of the inspection, which is whether any diseased hives were found and how many, how many varroa mite samples were taken and the number found positive, how many hives there were in a yard and how many inspected(usually 10%, unless AFB was found) and stuff like that.

That wouldn't tell a customer very much.


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## melliferal (Aug 30, 2010)

I've never seen an inspection in any other state described, but it wouldn't surprise me if Ohio is a little...off. 

In fact, our Ag Department has decided to eliminate the job of the lone experienced beekeeper who oversaw the state's apiary program and reassigned the office's responsibilities to the non-beeks in the Plant Pest Control section. Go figure.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

When I inspected in OH, there was little different from when I later inspected in NY. Diseases and pests of honey bees is what most State Depts of Ag regulate. Not quality or purity of honey or proper use of chemicals used to treat hives for pests and diseases. Just whether AFB is found and destroyed and whether varroa are present. Real good use of our taxes, don't ya think? Oops, a different Thread. My bad.


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## Deeptime (Jul 21, 2009)

I was just using an Apiary Inspection Cert as an example. We market into all kinds of channels. Some just want cheap "poultry meat", others want 3rd party certification that our poultry lead a "full and happy life" prior to going to the big b-b-q in the sky. We service both channels and all inbetween.


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## berkshire bee (Jan 28, 2007)

As far as tracing right back to the hive it came from, I don't think there's a lot of value in that since some hives die off in the winter, some get split, combined etc. I do keep track of how much honey came from each hive in what yard for my own personel use, but I doubt if a lot of people would be interested in recieving this information. Most want to know if it's local and from my own bees.
As for "growers only" markets, the one I do is that type and we have to sign a paper at the beginning of the season stating that we are the producer and giving the market manager permission to come and see our garden or beeyard to verify. One person was not allowed back in the market when they were caught buying what they were selling from a wholesaler.


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## Durandal (Sep 5, 2007)

I did this for a while, but even at the higher prices people are paying for local honey its difficult to get the time and justify the cost.

Even leaving a blank on my custom labels so I can write in the variety (when I have it) and writing "wildflower" on 100 1-pounders gets tedious. I cannot imagine doing more information at this point.

A manage the whole "local" thing differently by actively promoting our bee club to the public, participating in honey tastings with chefs who are using my honey in the their food. This year a chef and I are participating in the "Art of Food" at the one of our local art galleries. I and several artists are putting together the visual display, we'll be offering a taste of dozen different honey varieties, and the chef will have a baked flat bread (which uses everything from our farm except salt) and a puree using the honey as the sweetener.

It sounds like a lot of work but its farm more enjoyable than all that time filling out what amounts to a data sheet.

Here in Ohio you just need to label the jar with the weight, fluid content, and location it was bottled. When a beekeeper starts packing more than 25% of the honey they sell from a different source than their own hives, then they become a processor and are subject o a host of other regulations. I have hives in both Ohio and Indiana and have not heard about a "expiration date" and the like, especially if all you do is farmers' markets and retail.


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## Deeptime (Jul 21, 2009)

The "chef route" is an excellent way to go. Chefs opinions or a word validating you as a "good source for good honey" is the best advertising you can get.


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## rainesridgefarm (Sep 4, 2001)

I just turned down a drum a month (12pails) foodservice customer because they wanted a 39 page food safty program in place and a 18 page product recall program in place to continue to purchase my honey. I told them I was not needing their business that bad. For several months they continued to purchase and pleaded with me to do the paperwork because they wanted my local honey. I stood my ground on this and now they are looking at changing the whole program. I am all for food safty but I am not putting in a board of review to monitor the food safty program when I can move all my honey elsewhere.


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## Deeptime (Jul 21, 2009)

What you experienced (and repulsed) is just the leading edge of a rising tide on "supplier certification". It is possible to fly below the radar, but you will find your marketing options becoming increasingly limited. Time, food science, and litigation lawyers are on their side. :waiting:


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## Mike Snodgrass (Mar 11, 2010)

I would like to think consumer demand will eventually sort this thing out to be less restictive or needless altogether for the small producer/local retailer. Either way, what happens when you deny a product to the consumer in this country....they get it anyway!:no:


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Yeah, illegally. These laws, meant to protect the public, will turn otherwise lawabidding citizens into criminals, unless they stop doing what they are doing now.

I heard today, on the radio, that a NY State Legislator is trying to get the regulations eased so a fod producer who sells w/in 500 miles of their farm will be less impacted by these new regulations. Or something like that.


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## Deeptime (Jul 21, 2009)

Having been involved in feed/food industry all my carreer, I am not optimistic. "If you can test for it...they will have you test for it". Additonally, incidences of adulteration are perfect excuses for demanding regulation...ditto mislabaling ("think "organic") and how about pesticide levels? :no:


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## Deeptime (Jul 21, 2009)

An excellent discussion acticle in a somewhat related field,
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/20/b...?pagewanted=1&_r=1&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=a25

I realize honey is much less suspectable to bio-contamination than further processed foods, but the demarcation between artisan/hobby and commerical is going to come down when it come to food safety.

From my experience, having the USDA detect Listeria in your product is the front end of a very, very, expensive journey you will not be able to avoid.

As just a novice beek, it appears to me we are more vulnerable to transgressing in the antibiotic/insecticide sector rather than bacterial/food poisoning area (botulism aside). The selling, reselling blending, combining, shipping, transshipping of honey from a multitude of sources just beckons for somebody to play fast and loose with the specs.:no:


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## Deeptime (Jul 21, 2009)

Haven't read the details yet, but here's how in the the name of "Food Safety" your little honey biz will/can become a "person of interest" to the government.


Senate Bill 510
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d111:S510:

:ws


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## TWall (May 19, 2010)

I just glanced over the summary of the bill. It states farms and restaurants are exempt. I assume, with hesitation, that includes beekeepers too.

Tom


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## Durandal (Sep 5, 2007)

That is not a blanket exemption and to date I have yet to figure out who gets exempt and what is classified as "wholesale". Am I exempt if I make less than half a million or am I exempt if I wholesale less than 51%?

When in doubt, its bad legislation. Ultimately there is no guarantee food will get safer and it will be far easier to grow and process food outside this country because the only food being grown in our borders is grains, beans, and grapes (though States and the Feds do their best to screw up Wine production as best they can).


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## mythomane (Feb 18, 2009)

Durandal said:


> That is not a blanket exemption and to date I have yet to figure out who gets exempt and what is classified as "wholesale". Am I exempt if I make less than half a million or am I exempt if I wholesale less than 51%?
> 
> When in doubt, its bad legislation. Ultimately there is no guarantee food will get safer and it will be far easier to grow and process food outside this country because the only food being grown in our borders is grains, beans, and grapes (though States and the Feds do their best to screw up Wine production as best they can).


So if you have doubts then it is bad? How about clearing up what it is you are fuzzy on and then making a rational decision. From what I have read, small farmers are exempted from most of this legislation. What it does do primarily is allow the FDA control over recalls (it has none now) and more importantly (as far as the honey business goes) states that Imported food has to adhere to the same measures as Domestically raised produce. From my end this kind of enforcement against inferior honey imports is long overdue. That said, lets hope they focus on this instead of raiding our honey houses with guns drawn. I only read the summary as well. Anyone with any real concerns with direct references to the legislation?


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## Durandal (Sep 5, 2007)

I'm sorry if I misunderstand you...

You think that foreign produced food will be under stricter regulation?

Where I am fuzzy is not where I do not understand but how it is both written and defined.

As far as "rational" decision goes, I have been keeping tabs on this for the last three years and have kept an eye on what California's leafy greens agreement has done and have been concerned about similar things in Ohio.

Is it rational to determine a farm by its income or its size? Is it rational to say "wholesale" when wholesale is so poorly defined?

I look at current food safety issues. I come to the following conclusions:

1) Nothing is going to make food 100%
2) Food is more safe than it has ever been in terms of food related deaths caused by farm or production related contamination.
3) Proper food handling int he home reduces 99% of all pathogens.
4) Current food laws, as written, would prevent a majority of current outbreaks over the past decade.
5) Poor funding, lack of inspectors, and the lack of proper inspecting have allowed the current environment to continue.
6) Unless we plan on inspecting food production sites located outside this country the government does not have even the fraction of the capacity to be able to properly inspect imported food.

In addition, this legislation gives a non-elected office within the government to regulate aspects of American business that could drive certain aspects of agriculture (the ones that actually feed a bulk of society) out of the country by over regulating it when it is incapable of tasking its current regulatory requirements.

In the end what you will see happen is the people that can afford to pay a good solid price for locally grown healthy food be able to do so and the rest of America that is either unable to pay for or unwilling to pay for quality domestically grown and/or produced food to have to purchase cheap food produced abroad.

What you see as a solution to your "honey" problem in fact, in my eyes will actually exacerbate the problem. When larger packers, decide its too costly or a Chinese company purchases an American bee operation, what then? As demand for honey increases and American production decreases what will happen then? History tells us greed wins.

Additionally, I am tired of seeing politicians pass legislation that Americans, as a whole, do not understand and settle for bills that are "ok" or " could be better and but something is better than nothing". In this case "nothing" is simply status-quo.

Lastly we are in financial woes. Unemployment as recorded by the government is around 10% and if you include those no longer looking for work, those originally self-employed or owners of small businesses that no longer have work or businesses failed and those who were unemployed and went to school, you would be looking at unemployment numbers hovering close between 20 and 25%. The federal government has lost a massive tax base and combined with tax incentive programs that allow those still employed to reduce their tax obligation the tax base is even smaller. The Federal government simply does not have pockets deep enough to properly fund current rules and laws on the books much less this new sweeping legislation. Today they announced the possibility of wage freezes on federal workers. How many new hires, the thousands required for this new food program to be effective, are we going to see once its passed? What special pet program or important institution is going to get sacrificed so we can save the lives of what? A couple 1000 people per year...if that?

In the end we need to ask ourselves are we in anyway worse off if this legislation does not pass the Senate. Right now no one has been able to show me that in fact we will be. Will this bill improve things?

As a full-time farmer and beekeeper I think this whole thing is simply ineffectual and should not be passed.


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## mythomane (Feb 18, 2009)

I do not think we have to go over to China to test honey for impurities, or food that is laced with DDT. This could be done at the border. The problem is that no one is doing it. I am aware that unemployment is very high. I do not see how that affects the wording of the legislation. I see this as a positive step towards ending the free reign given to the big businesses who have been slowly taking over our food supply, and less about stemming the accidental deaths of people. Why are GMO products not labeled as such? Why are these products placed on the supermarket shelves without any real testing? Why is our food irradiated and sprayed with millions of tons of new chemicals every year? I think the focus is on a healthier food product for all people. The laws on the books have been circumvented for years by Big Ag and the lobbyists that back them, and this is a step in the other direction. Will it be ineffectual? I do not know, but something needs to change.


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## Deeptime (Jul 21, 2009)

China exports are always scarey to buy. A number of years ago, they basically came into the vitamin/amino acid markets and undersold Europe and US competitors to the point that after a few years they "owned" the market for several essential vitamins. In purchasing, I try to steer clear of Chinese vitamins, but where I can't, I try to think of every thing they could possible hide in it and then have labs test, test,test. Think Melomine (a plasticizer) in Lysine, heavy metals in sheetrock.
Monitoring imported honey becomes a game of statisical sampling warfare. and the importer is always at a disadvantage.inch:inch:inch:


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## Mike Snodgrass (Mar 11, 2010)

The bottom line here is ...is the FDA going to enforce new laws when it clearly is to under staffed to enforce the ones it now is charged with? And, of course, do we need bigger GOV to do the same things we have been doing all along anyway? We need more customs at the border stopping any bad foods and we need stiffer penalties for exporting companies overseas when they get caught!!! A 500% tarriff on all asian honey would get a lot of attention of those folks over there real fast!! It would stop tainted vegtables from mexico as well! Just shift some useless GOV office folks to the borders...and make them earn those enormous raises!!!


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## Deeptime (Jul 21, 2009)

I rest my case...
GALVESTON, Texas, Jan. 11, 2011 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- The True Source Honey™ Initiative enthusiastically announces the launch of a Certified Honey Traceability Program beginning in January 2011. The program officially known as True Source Certified™ was unveiled at the 2011 North American Beekeeping Conference in Galveston this past week. Details were revealed regarding the program, which is designed to certify the origin of honey being distributed and consumed within North America, resulting in better food safety and product purity assurances for quality-minded customers and consumers. Further details of the program have been posted at www.TrueSourceHoney.com.

This new voluntary program is open to all interested honey companies (packers, beekeepers, importers and exporters) who desire True Source Certification. It was developed by a multi-disciplined group of industry participants who want to maximize industry participation in solving the problem of illegally sourced honey. Intertek, an internationally recognized third party audit firm, will begin conducting audits for any interested candidates starting this month. The program will help create transparency within the industry, going beyond current certification expectations and federal regulations while adding an additional layer of traceability beginning at the hive. For those applying for certification, Intertek will conduct unannounced inspections, review documents and collect samples for country-of-origin verification. 

There are a number of honey companies in North America that have resolved to purchase only legal, properly sourced honey from legitimate sources. These companies now have an opportunity to certify their purchasing practices through an independent third party auditor, enhancing customer and consumer confidence while clearly demonstrating the value which they have been providing.

Food industry is well ahead of the honey folks on this one. Yes, there will be cheating and supplers who will play fast and loose with documentation, but this is where things are going. Note comment about 3rd party auditor. In my biz, we deal withthem all the time, get use to it.inch:


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