# Windproof winter cover. (prototype)



## rwlaw (May 4, 2009)

Interesting concept, one thing I have found out though, you have to have a vent in the top or the condensation starts collecting before it finds it's way out of a lower vent hole. Maybe a sreened over piece of pvc pipe through the foam board and a spacer ring to keep the top off the foam.


----------



## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

With screened bottoms you will have no condensation issues at the inner cover. I recommend screened bottoms, but if a person has solid bottoms the vent holes in the boxes are second best option.


----------



## Rolande (Aug 23, 2010)

bluegrass said:


> With screened bottoms you will have no condensation issues at the inner cover. I recommend screened bottoms


this now seems pretty standard practice in the UK. most people I speak to use top insulation through the winter months combined with screened bottoms (omf -open mesh floors). I'm a little behind the times but have put a few out in the fields this year to see. Regards the insulation, I can't see why that can't stay on top all year -big selling point with the polystyrene hives is that they 'keep warm in the winter and cool in the summer'. I certainly don't like the idea of having stacks of poly in the workshop for half of the year.


----------



## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

Rolande said:


> Regards the insulation, I can't see why that can't stay on top all year -big selling point with the polystyrene hives is that they 'keep warm in the winter and cool in the summer'. I certainly don't like the idea of having stacks of poly in the workshop for half of the year.


I plan to try leaving it on some hives next season.

With "OMF" I surmise that if you have no other ventilation in the roof of the hive, the bottom will act as an air lock and the bees would completely control the ventilation of the hive.


----------



## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

bluegrass said:


> With screened bottoms you will have no condensation issues at the inner cover.


I have SBB's. It is not enough in Utica, NY. Danbury, Ct is a lot dryer than we are.

I don't know if you accounted for this but 3 degrees is not enough to prevent water from slipping under a lapped shingle.


----------



## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

Ace. Are your screen bottoms wide open in the winter or do you partially cover them?


----------



## ctgolfer (May 4, 2011)

Interesting Bluegrass, I opted to build a bunch of these tops, with 2" of foam for the winter and all holes screened off for the summer I think these will be a year round advantage to the hives.







I got the plans from here: http://www.honeyrunapiaries.com/store/all-season-inner-cover-frame-p-232.html


----------



## BGhoney (Sep 26, 2007)

I have screened bottoms open year round and can have lots of condensation , even with a 3/4 upper vent hole my inner cover can get water logged, I think it depends on your location and for me strength of the colony


----------



## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

bluegrass said:


> Ace. Are your screen bottoms wide open in the winter or do you partially cover them?


Well they are closed off by a solid bottom board at the moment but I just came back from a seminar by Ross Conrad who is in Vermont. He leaves his SBB wide open all the time with a 3/4in top entrance. Next year I am going to open up the SBB. I still like the solid BB underneath so I can check the debris. Ross doesn't like cleaning it out all the time so he has nothing under his SBB.


----------



## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

I leave them open with nothing underneath. I don't really know what the humidity differences are between your location and mine, but I have had no condensation issues in the hives this winter.


----------



## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

With a wide open bottom how do you judge the moisture output?


----------



## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

Acebird said:


> With a wide open bottom how do you judge the moisture output?


Moisture output? Does anyone measure their hive moisture "output"?

I look for moisture "staying put" on the undersides of covers... So when there isn't any moisture "stay-put" I would assume that the output is adequate, but unmeasured.


----------



## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

The moisture in the hive is a result of the bees breathing. It will have a lot to do with their metabolic status. If they are active and consuming a lot of stores you will see a lot more condensation in the hive. The local humidity doesn't factor into it much when the temps are below freezing... any moisture that is in the air condenses and freezes.

I also don't know of any way to measure the moisture output of a hive. As long as condensation is not forming at the top of the hive I really don't care about it.


----------



## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

BeeCurious said:


> So when there isn't any "stay-put" I would assume that the output is adequate, but unmeasured.


I don't know, you tell me. Don't the bees need water in the winter? If I see water in the pan and no frost or moisture in the top of the hive I know the bees had a chance to get some water. If it is dry in the hive and there is no evidence of moisture, is that good?


----------



## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

Acebird said:


> If I see water in the pan


I don't have any pans of water in any of my hives. 

Having no frost or moisture doesn't mean that the bees broke cluster and went for a drink at the 'ol water pan...


----------



## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Having water in the pan / plastic tray means there was condensate in the hive, a source of water for the bees. Seeing no frost or moisture on the lid means it wasn't a problem. I suppose you could always assume there will always be condensate unless they are dead.


----------



## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

Unless you are causing a chimney effect by providing too much top ventilation there is plenty of moisture in the hive for the bees. What they are breathing out is excess, which is why they are breathing it out... Just like you and I, a bees body has a specific electrolyte balance that is always maintained. The excess water is either excreted through deification, urination (one and the same in a bee) and through the lungs and expelled through breathing. 

They obtain the moisture through the food they are eating as long as you are not feeding dry sugar.


----------



## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

They need water to break down crystallized honey and to make bee bread for brood as I understand it. Condensation would only happen under certain conditions. If it all falls out the bottom would there be enough is my question. Not seeing it in a pan on a regular bases leaves me to wonder. If you succeed in what you are doing you are doing it right but will it work for me?


----------



## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Acebird said:


> If you succeed in what you are doing you are doing it right but will it work for me?


Really, what kind of question is this? You want "us" to tell you if something will work for you? Why do you ask questions for which there is no answer? The answer will come after you try something and get firsthand experience.


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Acebird,
do you have pans in your hives? Hives wrapped for winter are commonly tilted slightly so any condensation on the inner cover will run to the downhill end and then down the wall of the hive and onto the bottomboard and/or out the entrance. Folks I know also stagger the two deeps so the condensation doesn't have to go down to the bottom board.


----------



## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> Acebird,
> do you have pans in your hives?


Yes I do. I have a commercial SBB that has a lip on the bottom so when it drips it goes into the pan sitting on the solid BB.

Now I can see that we are off topic from the title so it is time to quit.


----------

