# wax cell cup molds?



## Bizykatbird (Feb 8, 2009)

Can anyone tell me where I can purchase molds to make wax cell cups? I am currently using the stick method, but I saw (I believe it was on David Cushings website) a couple different silicone molds. One can be purchased though Thorne in the UK, but I have never purchased anything from outside the country, and am concerned about shippping. The other which is referred to as a Kemp mold I haven't been able to locate at all. I have looked at numerous other sites in the US to no avail. Does anyone know where either of these or another type that works well is sold in the US?
Thanks!


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

You have been using a stick. Are you making multiple ones at once? Most people who make their own make a "comb" that has many teeth on it and each one is one cell. A few dips and you have some cells:

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesqueenrearingsimplified.htm#DippingCells
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesdoolittle.htm#MakingCups

I don't know of a better way to make wax ones. They need that thin edge to work well.


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## Bizzybee (Jan 29, 2006)

I haven't seen any for sale? I made a couple of different molds with silicon rubber that work quite well. One was a copy of the cell cups that come from the nicot system and the other are cups I got from Rossman.

Because of that thin lip that Michael mentioned, the molds need to be warmed before pouring the wax so that it doesn't cool the wax before that small cavity is filled.

The molds makes about 20 or 25 each. Of course the mold could be made to make as many as you would like in a run. 

It was just something to try at the time that I made them. But turned out that I make all my wax cups with those molds now.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Walter T. Kelley has always had the wax cups for sale. I assume they still do.


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## Bizykatbird (Feb 8, 2009)

I am using a stick that makes a single cup at a time and was wanting to make multiples...I looked at the links, but couldn't see the pictures, does any one have plans, or know exactly what materials to use?


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## Bizykatbird (Feb 8, 2009)

I know I can purchase wax cups already made, but I prefer to make them myself.


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

*cell cups*

10 or so dowels on a bar have the great advantage of being able to attach all 10 to a cell bar all at one time. Waxing cups one at a time to a bar is way too time consuming.


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## Bizykatbird (Feb 8, 2009)

Yes, I agree, thats why I am trying to increase production  I saw a video on utube where they were dipping a long bar with what looked like dowels, but then they used a 2nd piece of wood, looked like wooden bases with a hole in them, then pressed the bar with the wax (on dowels) into the bases with the holes, and that was the finished bar cell cups attached. Does anyone have a plan, or a good photo of this? It was hard to see the details in the video.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

Personally, when I use wax cell cups, I prefer them to be attached directly to the cell bar rather than to the wooden cell cup bases - they are much easier to detach from the cell bars without damaging the finished queen cells when they are attached directly to the bar.


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## Bizykatbird (Feb 8, 2009)

Do you just attach with a little melted wax?


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## marcros (Jan 8, 2009)

Bizykatbird said:


> Do you just attach with a little melted wax?


yes, a drip/blob is perfect


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## LT (Aug 17, 2006)

*Wax cell cup molds*

What size dowel rods do you use?
How is the easiest way to melt the wax?

Thanks for all replys


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## Ishi (Sep 27, 2005)

Look at figure 4 page 995 and figure 6 page 997 of The Hive and the Honey Bee last addition. If you have one it shows a tray to make cells. Or you could use an electric skillet to melt the wax. Just spoon some wax on the bar to attach the cells


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## BWrangler (Aug 14, 2002)

Hi Guys,

Jz Bz wide base plastic cups could be used to make a silicon rubber queen cup mold. The resulting wax cups would be substantial enough for easy handling/attachment. And they should have the right taper for an easy release from the mold.

When I first started my queen rearing business, I dipped wax cups and attached them, en masse, on a grafting bar per the example in Laidlow's queen rearing book. I'd do this during the winter and have boxes full of grafting bars ready to go.

But they were fragile to store and later, work with. And the sealed queen cell were much more fragile and difficult to remove and handle.

After trying a few Jz Bz plastic cups, I was impressed. And haven't used wax cups since then. I can prepare/clean and wax coat several thousand of them in an hour. And store them indefinitely in a plastic bag. And the sealed cells can be easily removed and are strong enough for easy handling/pushing into a nuc's comb.

One advantage for wax cups is that the bees recycle them. Plastic cups can end up just about everywhere, on the floor, in the sump, etc. especially in a commercial operation.

Regards
BWrangler


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## Bizykatbird (Feb 8, 2009)

I am trying some plastic cups as well, what do you do to clean them? And if I tried to use the plastic cups to make molds where would I get silicone? And what would be the process to make a mold from it?


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## tarheel bee (May 17, 2005)

Bill Sheppard,one of NC's state apiary inspectors,has a mold that he made from aluminum and used for years. Call Don Hopkins @ beneficial insects lab for contact info.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>What size dowel rods do you use?

"Cells larger than five-sixteenths of an inch are not accepted so readily as those of this size or smaller."--Jay Smith, Queen Rearing Simplified

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesqueenrearingsimplified.htm#DippingCells

>How is the easiest way to melt the wax?

I have a turkey roaster that has a double boiler build in. It's nice and long, but also pretty big. Any crock pot (that you use only for wax) would work also.


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## Bizzybee (Jan 29, 2006)

This is where my molding materials come from. There are others out there also.

There are some instructional vids here that will give you some idea about making molds:

http://www.hobbycast.net/video.htm


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## Aram (May 9, 2006)

"When completed, the cells should be about five-sixteenths of an inch across the mouth and one-half inch deep inside measurements."-- --Jay Smith, Queen Rearing Simplified
Thank you MB.
Would 1/4" dowels work? Do the ends get shaped (rounded)? Jay Smith says deep them four times to build wall thickness and allow a drop to form at the base to allow for trimming. How important are the outside dimensions of the cell? Would dipping them eight times make them unacceptable?


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## Aram (May 9, 2006)

Maybe a dumb question but...
Will the bees transfer larvae into empty cups on a frame positioned midheight between brood frames? Or do these cups work only if grafted?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Would 1/4" dowels work? 

No. Use 5/16" dowels. 

>Do the ends get shaped (rounded)?

Yes round them. it works nicely to use a pencil sharpener to make just a little taper and then round them from there. Course (40 to 60 grit) sandpaper can be used to round it and then finer paper to smooth it.


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## peletier (May 5, 2007)

Aram said:


> Maybe a dumb question but...
> Will the bees transfer larvae into empty cups on a frame positioned midheight between brood frames? Or do these cups work only if grafted?


There has been some discussion here about whether or not the bees will move eggs. I would say not. As to moving larvae, I'd say definitely not. Doolittle, if I understood him correctly, once observed a queen laying in one of his prepeared cups but I wouldn't want to count on that happening consistently. To answer your question, the cups are intended for grafting. If you want a larva in there you better do it yourself.


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## Aram (May 9, 2006)

Ol Klear(OK)! 
Thank you both.
Aram


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

ONCE I had a queen lay eggs in my queen cups that got left too long... I wouldn't plan on it.


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## Bizykatbird (Feb 8, 2009)

Bizzybee
Would you use the 150 or the 160 to make wax cup molds? I am thinking about using the plastic cells to make them...do you think that would work?


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## Bizzybee (Jan 29, 2006)

I used the 160 because I had it on hand at the time. I had been using it to replicate some plastic parts I needed.

It works fine, but I would like to have a more pliable mold than the 160 provides. If I remember correctly, the difference between the 150/160 is pot time but provides the same end result. The shore hardness for the material will confirm that. You should see those values on each at their website. 

Maybe the honeyman will chime in  and lend an offer for a better mold material for wax. We had a conversation some time back about a new silicon rubber he was trying out for candles that sounded like it might fit the bill better. I don't recall where he was getting it though? I don't know if he will come forward or not though? Trade secretes and all ya know 

I like the cups a lot that I make with the mold. They can easily be used in the confinement cage with the queen or for grafting. They can also be attached to the cell bars with the system cup holders just as the plastic cups are. Easy to recycle wax.


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## honeyman46408 (Feb 14, 2003)

Hobby cast is what I used the last candle molds I made

http://hobbysilicone.com/Silicone.htm

and I dont remember the brand name of the first I used but its a little cheaper and worked just as well it was the 150 stuff I think


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