# No Smoke



## NeilV (Nov 18, 2006)

Last weekend, I went and helped an older beekeeper to requeen several hives. We tore the hives apart looking for the old queen. We used no smoke, since that would apparently make finding the queen more difficult. I initially thought that the bees would go wacko without smoke. They just didn't. They remained calm, and one of the hives was really heavy.

This week, I installed two nucs in my own hives, which are my first bees ever. For the install, I used smoke. However, I had to go back into the hives to deal with a problem and remove the corks from the queen cages, and I did not use smoke, since that seemed unnecessary last weekend. No problems at all. I then opened them to check the division board feeders. No smoke and no problems.

I would prefer to not smoke these bees. It takes too much time and it gets me smelling smoky and I don't think the bees could possibly like it either. I don't buy the idea that bees are "calmed" by smoke. I think they are probably distracted, but that's different than calmed.

I wear jeans, a veil, gloves and a long sleeved cotton shirt over my regular shirt. I suppose that if I ran into a really aggressive hive, some of them would get to me. I understand that a nuc may grow up and not be so gentle, but these bees are super calm. I do not think that a single bee has even tried to sting me. 

Am I being stupid if keep doing it this way? Am I eventually going to pop the top and get a bunch of stings?


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## Aspera (Aug 1, 2005)

Smoke is not just a yes /no issue in my question. It is also an issue of when, where and how much. I find it useful to smoke the the entrance from outside when I start and also the top before I replace a super. Without it I would kill many more bees. Its not necessarily a stinging issue.


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## ScadsOBees (Oct 2, 2003)

Everybody does something a little different...if it works for you, go for it! 

If I have to open my hives, they are usually calm, but stare at me so unnervingly that I get uncomfortable that I have to smoke them to get them to stop staring. 

A LOT depends on weather, temps, honeyflows, dearth, queenlessness, etc.

They are much much more mellow on a nice quiet warm sunny day with a honeyflow on. I would recommend using smoke any other time. If you don't then they will tell you if you need to use it, in that case close them up, go back and smoke them a bit later.

Rick


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

On sunny, warm days during a flow, I work my bees without a smoker, veil, gloves or other. I will be in short sleeves or shirtless, but my lit smoker and my veil are close by.

That means nothing. At other times, with no smoke, the same bees will pop you with 100 plus stings within 10 seconds of opening the hive. You ask if it were stupid to not use smoke. I will not call anyone stupid, but if you open hives regularly without smoke, you will one day regret it.


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## BaldyLocks (Apr 22, 2005)

I never use smoke any more either. Somedays I don't need to wear protective clothing, some days I do. On the days that I do, I doubt the smoke would make much difference. Anyhow, I agree with your observations that it is extra work, smelly, and does not appear to be necessary...


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## fhafer (Mar 27, 2005)

I always light my smoker and give the entrance a puff before opening the hive. I also pry the inner cover up and give that a puff. Any further smoke application is determined by the bees attitude. If they start to bounce into me they get smoke.....if they are calm I dispense with the smoke. I always have a lit smoker handy when I open the hives.


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## tarheit (Mar 26, 2003)

Haven't used the smoker yet this season myself. It's not a mistake, but you will eventually run into a situation that you will need the smoker, even with the most gentle bees. (weather, queenless hive, hive agitated by a sunk, etc.). The only mistake may be not having one handy in case you need it. 
However, also be aware of where you are. I wouldn't risk opening up a hive smokeless if there is a chance they might be defensive and they are close to neighbors, etc. It's not a good way to make friends.

-Tim


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## LET (May 24, 2005)

I do a couple of gentle puffs in the entrance and under the inner cover. I try to set my smoker about 6 feet upwind to allow for a small residual amount to mask any odors that might upset the girls. It seems that each time I go in without smoke I get stung. Since I get a pretty good dose of swelling from a sting, I always wear my protective clothing too. It only takes a couple of extra minutes to avoid the unpleasantness.

The risk/reward equation dictates my actions. What is the reward for the assumption of the extra risk. If the reward is small, why risk it?


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## tarheit (Mar 26, 2003)

I use to react badly to stings. Like you I'd never go without smoke, veil, gloves, etc. It depends on the individual.

-Tim


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## Hobie (Jun 1, 2006)

Aspera said:


> I find it useful to smoke ... the top before I replace a super. Without it I would kill many more bees.


I second this. I opened for a quick look the other day with no smoker and it took way longer than it should have to set the super back on top because of all the bees crawling around on top. I'm just glad it wasn't a deep super full of honey I was trying to lower oh-so-slowly.


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## NeilV (Nov 18, 2006)

*The resupering idea makes sense to me*

I had not thought about the use of smoke to herd the bees. That makes sense. I will confess that the first time I used no smoke on my hive, I squashed some bees when I put the inner cover on. The other time, I was really careful about it, but I bet I would squash fewer if I used some smoke for herding purposes. 

Thanks, 

ndvan


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## berkshire bee (Jan 28, 2007)

*smoke*

I usually use smoke. It's easier to get the bees down for replacing supers. Yesterday after going through a hive to find some frames to start a nuc I had to return later to add a super. I didn't use smoke then because it wasn't worth the bother to start it. Had no problems, but I still think the smoker is a valuable tool.


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## beegee (Jun 3, 2003)

Most of us tend to smoke the bees too much, too often, too close to opening the hive. I've found that couple of gentle puffs about 5-8 minutes before cracking open the hive will calm them. If I fog them and crack open the hive immediately, it seems to aggravate them. I'd prefer not to use smoke, but I occasionally have some bees that just play a little too rough.


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## shawnwri (Jul 31, 2006)

smoke, gloves, suit - sometimes yes, sometimes no. Veil always unless I'm just filling an enterance feeder


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## Ruben (Feb 11, 2006)

Igo into my hives quit often without smoke but on occation they will eat my @&& up until I smoke them


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

{smoke, gloves, suit - sometimes yes, sometimes no. Veil always unless}

2nd that, I always wear my veil, there few things worse than getting stung inside the nose or on an eyelid because one of the girls gets a hitch in her git along. I almost alway smoke but very sparingly as much to protect the bees as me.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I've found that couple of gentle puffs about 5-8 minutes before cracking open the hive will calm them.

Exactly.


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

> there few things worse than getting stung inside the nose or on an eyelid because one of the girls gets a hitch in her git along.


Oh yeah... took one right in the eyelashes. It was by far the worst sting experience I have had in my somewhat limited experience.


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## Soilman (Apr 30, 2007)

I got hit in the ear about a couple of weeks ago. I went to a local bee supply and walked through the wrong way while they were working the bees. Not a good idea, I was stung twice but the one in the ear. Wow- I was going to post on here to see if the pain was that normal, but i felt like a wimp lol. but I dont go around bees without a veil on now.


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## IslandMountainFarm (Feb 13, 2007)

*My good fortune*

was to be introduced to beekeeping by a genuine Latvian beekeeper. I mention this because I don't feel I know enough from my own experience to have a meaningful opinion on a subject as controversial as this one. I will however be happy to share Mr. Strauch's wisdom on the matter. He was of the opinion that the major function smoking serves is to mask the alarm pheromone given off by the guard bees when you disturb their space. That's why one smokes the entrance first. He told me never to open an established hive without smoking it first. The jist of his explanation (given with a very thick accent) was that you don't want your presence around the hive associated with alarm "scent" as he called it, so you need to mask it.

He believed that eventually a hive could become hostile to your presence even if when you just came into the yard. He felt that beekeepers who made the mistake of working their hives without smoke frequently replaced perfectly good queens in hives that seemed mean when in fact the problem was the hive guard bees identifying the keeper as a threat and the hive responding.

I will spend the rest of my functioning life keeping bees and will never know a fraction of what that man knew about bees so I am happy to share the information he gave me with all of you. Kind of a nice way to remember a great beekeeper.


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## Robert Hawkins (May 27, 2005)

I really don't want everyone mad at me over this. But smoking your bees is an art and should bee done right. Remember oldtimers used to use a pipe. Then just exhale the smoke into the hive entrance. Those bks who don't want to smoke their hives are probably using too much smoke. 

Try using just enough to convince the bees that the guy across the street is barbecueing. That's enough for them to gorge on the honey and bee unable to sting. Five minutes later another puff under the inner cover. Then whenever they peek over the frame, a puff to chase them back down. 

Another puff on any sting to cover the sting pheromone. Keep 'em down while your working and then chase 'em off the lids/supers/etc when you put it back together. Remember bees sense of smell is better than yours. You just want them to smell smoke in the air. Not enough to cough and throw up.

Hawk


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## Hillside (Jul 12, 2004)

> smoke, gloves, suit - sometimes yes, sometimes no. Veil always


In my experience, you can work bees with no smoke or suit in spring and early summer, but by late summer, it can be a different story. Once they sense the approach of winter, they get much more defensive.

I always wear a veil when I open a hive -- even if it's just some mosquito netting I pull over my head for a quick look.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

{ really don't want everyone mad at me over this.}

Hawk your too late, we're all mad at you for being gone so long! Had some concerns that maybe you were snowed in during one of those Colorado Blizzards!


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