# Syrup Pump and Pressure Relief Value - Size Recommendations



## Shibukraj (Mar 13, 2017)

Greetings all,

Based on all the information I gathered out of different threads; this is where I am right now

a) Need a gear pump for sure. There are two models I can see out in internet 1) Oberdorfer and 2) Dayton. 
b) Need a Gas engine. Going by Honda
3) Pressure relief valve.

The question I have are follows.
1) If I go for a 1 inch pump, Can I use a 3/4 inch pressure relief valve by reducing the pipe size on the relief side. The 1 inch pressure relief valves are very expensive.
2) What HP Honda engine is required. I live in TN and usually I feed 1:1 and occasionally thicker syrup like 2:1 or 2.5 :1. 
3) Any recommendations on pump Oberdorfer vs Dayton?
4) I can save some $$ if i go for a smaller inlet pump like 1/2 inch or 3/4 inch. Is that worth it or I may be disappointed at a later time.

I only keep around 100 to 150 hives max.

Any inputs are greatly appreciated.

Happy holidays to all.


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

Here are my recommendations:
1" gear pump.
Harbor Fright 😱 6.5hp engine
1.5" shieve on engine, 6" shieve on pump.
1" pressure relief valve that returns to tank.
"Banjo" cam-lock fittings on all of your hoses - pump. Also on your tank and return line.
Mount all of this on a steel plate and then shop around at your local saw and mower shops for used generator frames.
Moving, storing, and protection your pump unit is MUCH easier when mounted inside of a generator frame.
Good luck!


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## Shibukraj (Mar 13, 2017)

Thanks Very Much. This really helps. Do you have any recommendations for the pressure relief valve? Also what should be the PSI for the relief valve?
Thanks


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

The pressure will change relative to syrup temperature.
When the syrup is cold, you will have the relief valve backed all the way down but will still see pressure on the gauge.
(OOPS!!! I just remembered that you will need a gauge!) 😬
Warm syrup will require slightly more pressure, especially if you are running 2 hoses.
Just start with the pressure backed off and increase to your liking.


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## Shibukraj (Mar 13, 2017)

Thanks for the info. Is there any way you can send me a pic of your set up. Having a model/pic will allow me to do it better; i guess. Also what kind of pressure relief valve you are using? Any recommendations. Thanks again.


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## Shibukraj (Mar 13, 2017)

While looking in google I came across this one - 5300A . But that is only 3/4" inlet size and not 1 " size. Will that work ?

Thanks


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

Take a look at this and see if it helps:








Syrup Pump and IBC Tote


I'm setting up a syrup pump and 330 gallon IBC tote. I'm building a pallet for the pump and engine today. I'm considering having the hose pull off the rear of the flatbed. If I have the pump is right at the rear I can access everything pretty easy. An after thought is a hand crank hose reel...




www.beesource.com


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## Shibukraj (Mar 13, 2017)

Thanks you very much the pics towards the end of that post is really helpful. One quick question on the gear pump? Which one you recommend sir? I have seen Dayton pumps? Is that the one you are using or some other brand. Just want to get a good one.


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

You would be better off talking to a gear pump expert which I am not.
Mine is the same as the low end Dayton 1" pump. I bought it from a friend that had bought it and never used it.
I didn't realize that it was all cast iron construction until the seal went out this year and I rebuilt it.
The rebuild total cost including the seal and gasket (that I made from gasket material) was about five bucks.
Would a bronze pump be a better choice? Let me know what you find out.


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## Shibukraj (Mar 13, 2017)

Thanks very much. I picked up a Honda GC 160 engine today. I will order the Dayton pump soon and start working on it. In some of the pics posted by @davidsbees seems like he is connecting the motor to the pump using a straight shaft jaw coupling. Not sure whether you have any experience with that in terms of RPM. Because honda engines run at around 2500 rpm, so not sure how the straight coupling works. I assume we never want to run gear pumps at 2500 rpm any way. Let me know if you have any information on 3 jaw coupling. I am asking because the frame I am using is from an old pressure washer and if I can straight couple like @davidsbees shown it will be much easier for me to mount when compared with pulley system.

Thanks again for the help. Merry Christmas to you


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

Your Honda engine runs anywhere between idle speed and governor speed. You will set that speed based upon syrup type, syrup temperature and if running one or two hoses.
_I think_ direct drive will be a BIG mistake.
Running one hose with fairly warm syrup; I run the honda at about 1/3 speed.
With direct drive, you will be running the pump about 5 times faster.
YIKES!!!


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## Shibukraj (Mar 13, 2017)

Understood. Thanks very much. I think expect Pump I have all the information. I will be talking to another gentleman who is more knowledgeable than me on the pump. I am planning to meet him in a day or so. In the past while I was working in the landscaping work, they used Hypro Pump. I need to check that out as well
Thanks again


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## Shibukraj (Mar 13, 2017)

One more question @HarryVanderpool . I was checking the Dayton 1" pump. The cast iron is almost 100 $ cheaper than Bronze one. I read through their technical data sheet and it says Cast Iron for Oil based and for all water based liquids they say use Bronze. I know you have been using the cast iron without any issue. Is there any special care routine you follow when not it use. If I got for cast iron pump any thing specific I need to watch out for? Thanks


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

My hunch is that the bronze is the way to go.
I have always flushed my cast iron pump with hot water at the end of the season and then hand cranked in several table spoons of canola oil into the pump to prevent seizing or corrosion. 
When I rebuilt mine this year, I found significant pitting and scale.
$100.00 isn't really that much over a lifetime.
As I said before; I'm not an expert on gear pumps.
Go with the most informed advice.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Direct drive on that motor is way too fast for a gear pump. The Honda motor in Davids pictures comes with a 6:1 gear reducer built in. It is connected to the pump shaft with a Lovejoy coupling.Works great!


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

I dont think you can go wrong with Harrys specs in post 2. I am going to put one like that together for a backup. I started blowing hoses with the 3/4 relief valve pumping cold thick syrup. It was fine in warmer weather. I replaced it with the 1" but havent used it yet.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

loggermike said:


> Direct drive on that motor is way too fast for a gear pump. The Honda motor in Davids pictures comes with a 6:1 gear reducer built in. It is connected to the pump shaft with a Lovejoy coupling.Works great!


I agree. I set one up as the final solution with a 1” brass gear pump, Honda with gear reduction and a diect drive via a lovejoy. Kind of spendy, especially after buying a good quality reel, but makes for a very trouble free setup with no belt. It works well but dosent pump as fast as the belt drive unit we have had for years. The only problem with that is the belt needs replaced maybe once a year but that represents a lot of hours and numerous tanker loads of syrup.


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## G3farms (Jun 13, 2009)

The good thing about a belt drive is it will slip if too much of a load is placed on the pump. It could save you a twisted shaft. Just a thought.


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## Shibukraj (Mar 13, 2017)

@loggermike If I understand correctly what you said; 3/4 " pressure relief valve wont be good enough for pumping thick cold syrup. Is that correct? Also does any one have any recommendations on a 1" pressure relief valve? Thanks


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Shibukraj said:


> @loggermike If I understand correctly what you said; 3/4 " pressure relief valve wont be good enough for pumping thick cold syrup. Is that correct? Also does any one have any recommendations on a 1" pressure relief valve? Thanks


The 3/4 relief valve was fine till I got a load of prosweet 77(thinned 10% with water) in mid October. The nights were in the 30s so it was COLD . I blew a couple hoses from too much pressure . The hoses were old too, so that may have been a factor.


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## Shibukraj (Mar 13, 2017)

Thanks @loggermike . I am thinking of starting with a 3/4". The 1" pressure relief valve is now almost $225.00. Thanks again for the information and help.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

I wouldn’t (and didn’t) spring for the 1” bypass but good quality discharge hose is money well spent.


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## Shibukraj (Mar 13, 2017)

Does any one has any recommendations for the discharge hose . I am looking for a 50 or 75 ft hose . Thanks


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

I am using Apache 98108809 3/4" x 100' Industrial Rubber Water Hose Maximum Pressure: 200 Pound per Square Inch . So far its been good. This isnt the hose that blew. The 1-1/2" discharge line from the pump to the reel is where my problem was.The last one blew up while I was feeding. Suddenly no syrup. I looked back at the truck to see my poor dog soaked in syrup!


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

As I said, don’t go cheap. I would go with something like this. HosecraftUSA.com - Price & Purchase Configurator: RM1 MULTIPURPOSE RUBBER NITRILE HOSE. my reel was originally equipped with 3/4” 100’ and I wasn’t thrilled with the flow rate. I shortened it to 75’ and the flow rate only marginally improved. I then replaced It with a 60’ 1” diameter hose. It improved it some but at the cost of having to drag around way more weight and bulk. I finally came to the conclusion that the flow rate problem is essentially because the 6:1 gear reduction just dosent spin the pump as fast as I would like. So I have a very reliable, solid, high dollar setup that works ok but the unit we like the best is the old belt drive unit with a 3/4” 60’ discharge hose. Pumps faster, with a hose that is way easier to handle. Just keep a replacement belt nearby. Both pumps are 3/4” brass gear pumps. Nice, but not cheap.


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

Also, If you think that you will ever pump cold, heavy syrup, you will need "suction hose" between the tank and pump.
I use "wire wound suction hose".


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## Shibukraj (Mar 13, 2017)

Greetings all,

First of all thanks to all of you especially @HarryVanderpool , @loggermike and others for their timely and valuable insights and answers. I got a Honda GC 160 motor and Dayton Brass Pump as well. Honda engine has a keyed shaft and so it was easy to mount the pulley. But the Dayton Pump has the 1/8th portion of the shaft cut off. See the attached pics. Has anyone has any idea on how to mount the pulley in such a shaft. Any insights will be really helpful. Thanks again for all the help. Happy new year -2021 to all and a very best for 2021 season. Attaching the shaft pics.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Just tighten the set screw down on the flat of the shaft after lining the pulleys up. A bit of Loctite will help, but it will need tightening occasionally.


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## John Davis (Apr 29, 2014)

When assembling these, something to remember is to keep the pulleys as close to the bearings in the equipment as possible, not out on the end of the shaft. The tension of the belt creates a side load on the bearings and the farther out on the shaft the more leverage multiplies that force causing bearings to fail prematurely. 
In direct coupled equipment perfect alignment makes the bearings last as well, flexible couplings don't compensate for poor alignment practices.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Because you are using an internal combustion engine that has power pulses, and not a smoother electric motor, I would highly recommend using a Browning pulley with a taper lock. Watch the orientation of the segment so that the gap is not over the flat on the shaft. Like mentioned above, keep the pulley as close to the pump as possible.

Crazy Roland


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## Shibukraj (Mar 13, 2017)

Thanks very much John and Roland. I got the engine and pump and other items. I read about the side load and was thinking about how to install the pump and motor and reduce the side load


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Set your belt tension at just enough to drive the pump, no more. There are very involved ways which involve a jackshaft and a flexible coupler, but I doubt if it would be worth the added cost to remove the side load.

Crazy Roland


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Ideally the setup will be designed with slotted holes to allow for proper belt tension and alignment. Even with that, though, it seems to me that with the demands of pumping cold syrup at times that a belt has a limited life span especially in severe conditions. Keeping a spare belt tucked away in your truck somewhere is a quick fix that can save the day.


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## davidsbees (Feb 22, 2010)

Shibukraj said:


> Greetings all,
> 
> Based on all the information I gathered out of different threads; this is where I am right now
> 
> ...


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## Shibukraj (Mar 13, 2017)

@Davisbees Thanks for the pic. It is really helpful in understanding how to connect all the components. I am working on my setup and will put the details in this thread with pic once done so that it will help someone down the line


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