# should bees be fed during "summer dearth"?



## mlanden (Jun 19, 2016)

I put honey supers on my 2 hives 3 weeks ago, and the bees have not worked them at all; I'm told locally (eastern NC) that we're now in the summer dearth, so I shouldn't expect the girls to do anything re: extra honey. Should I feed them some sugar water now? An Ag Extension agent suggested I not, since I "shouldn't spoil the bees". Any ideas/opinions on that? Thx much .....
Mitch


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## Stonewall (Aug 27, 2013)

I'm in the southern peidmont of North Carolina. We have very simular floral sorces and yes, we are in a dearth. I harvest all the honey I can get ahold of in early June. I do feed all during the summer and fall to put on enough stores to last the winter. Each hive will take 80 to 100 pounds of sugar over that period of time.


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

mlanden said:


> An Ag Extension agent suggested I not, since I "shouldn't spoil the bees". Any ideas/opinions on that?


I like your extension agent. I have a "winter survival line" below which I don't harvest. That gives the bees enough honey to live on during our dearth from the end of our tallow flow until our fall flow. This gives the bees a summer brood break which, along with the winter brood break, has allowed me to not treat. Works for me and my mutts. I don't hear much about other people doing it in other areas.


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## Charlestonbee (Mar 26, 2015)

And what is that harvest line? Do you leave on a deep and two mediums or two deeps and a medium? What configuration do you have with this harvest line?


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## dtrooster (Apr 4, 2016)

I asked this very same question n another thread and didn't get much. Thanks to those that gave me something to work with. My evaluation from an unjaded view, first hive, is it depends. Is your hive already strong enough, have enough comb and enough stores to get them thru the dearth and be able to capitalize on a fall flow to be ready for winter? If yes, don't feed let them roll. My hive is still smallish, started with a small swarm, so if I see comb building stalling and numbers not increasing I'm gonna feed enough to keep things happening. This year with this hive my peabrain says that's what I need to do. Meet me at the Holiday Inn Express in a year and we can discuss it further


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

mlanden said:


> An Ag Extension agent suggested I not, since I "shouldn't spoil the bees".


That is ridiculous. If they have honey stored you might get away without feeding them. If they don't have honey stored...they'll starve. You can't spoil bees. They operate on instincts honed through eons of evolution. Feeding them for a couple of months will not override that instinct.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

If bees need feeding and you have feed to feed them, then, yes, they aught to be fed during the dearth. But honey supers should not be on them. 

Your Ag Extension person doesn't feel the same way when it comes to cattle or hogs, do they?


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## Groundhwg (Jan 28, 2016)

beemandan said:


> That is ridiculous. If they have honey stored you might get away without feeding them. If they don't have honey stored...they'll starve. You can't spoil bees. They operate on instincts honed through eons of evolution. Feeding them for a couple of months will not override that instinct.


Times two - this sums it up very well. Here sugar is a lot cheaper than bees.


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## NewbeeInNH (Jul 10, 2012)

Riverderwent said:


> I like your extension agent. I have a "winter survival line" below which I don't harvest. That gives the bees enough honey to live on during our dearth from the end of our tallow flow until our fall flow. This gives the bees a summer brood break which, along with the winter brood break, has allowed me to not treat. Works for me and my mutts. I don't hear much about other people doing it in other areas.


I have heard the same thing - that the summer dearth acts as a secondary brood break which helps mite control as they slow down on brood rearing.


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## johnbeejohn (Jun 30, 2013)

Some queens will stop when there 8n a dearth some won't like a lot of Italian queens are just laying machines and won't stop


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## Sunday Farmer (Nov 13, 2013)

dtrooster said:


> I asked this very same question n another thread and didn't get much. Thanks to those that gave me something to work with. My evaluation from an unjaded view, first hive, is it depends. Is your hive already strong enough, have enough comb and enough stores to get them thru the dearth and be able to capitalize on a fall flow to be ready for winter? If yes, don't feed let them roll. My hive is still smallish, started with a small swarm, so if I see comb building stalling and numbers not increasing I'm gonna feed enough to keep things happening. This year with this hive my peabrain says that's what I need to do. Meet me at the Holiday Inn Express in a year and we can discuss it further


For what it is worth- 4x4x4 medium frame nucs made in early May- top super all honey. Second partial brood honey went through last summer till mid October before winter feed was given. Cedar Grove, NC.


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## dtrooster (Apr 4, 2016)

I've got an 8 frame medium, probably 1 1/2 frames of honey/nectar with 3 1/2 frames of brood in various stages, Relevance to my situation? I started with no drawn comb and maybe one full frame worth of bees. Over my head I guess, explain how this is apples to apples. Not to be obnoxious but you gotta give more than that


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

Charlestonbee said:


> And what is that harvest line? Do you leave on a deep and two mediums or two deeps and a medium? What configuration do you have with this harvest line?


I use 8 frame mediums. The configuration varies some depending on the size of the hive and whether the yard is suburban or rural. I generally put the queen excluder over the third box, but occasionally the fourth, and I don't harvest below that point. Uncapped nectar above that point is also left on the hives. That sustains the bees through our slow, late summer. 

In the fall, I harvest above the third box and remove the excluder when I harvest. Again any uncapped nectar above that point is obviously also left on. Within a day or two, I add back boxes of empty drawn comb and the bees continue to add some stores during our late fall and early winter. I lift hives at critical times depending on weather and flows, to check weights. Some of my mutts burn through stores like Italian bees, and some are frugal. Our riskiest time is late winter when the weather is warm enough for the bees to fly and burn calories, but too early for nectar.


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## tech.35058 (Jul 29, 2013)

I "feed" by planting nectar producing plants, and also with a bucket of syrup, if the hives are light. I think I can keep Buckwheat blooming until Halloween , if I work at it.
but the bottom line, is the bees have to make it through the winter. I also occaisionally make splits about now, so I can worry about whether it was the right thing to do, or not. ( they get in hive feeders) Roll the dice & take your chances. or try it both ways. Good Luck with your bees. CE


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## mlanden (Jun 19, 2016)

Morning -- I'm new to beek. and so I'm not familiar with the phrase "harvest line" -- ?? I just got my 2 hives at the end of April this year. Each hive now consists of 2 deeps and a (honey super) medium. Both deeps were nearly full of brood/honey/pollen 3 weeks ago, so although we're in a dearth period, I sorta hoped the girls would've done at least a little something in the honey supers ......


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## mlanden (Jun 19, 2016)

Thx much -- each of my 2 hives consists of 2 deeps and a (honey super) medium. As of a month ago, each of the 4 deeps was nearly packed with brood, honey and pollen. That's why I figured the bees would be happy to move up into the honey supers. Apparently not ....


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## mlanden (Jun 19, 2016)

Is your hive already strong enough, have enough comb and enough stores to get them thru the dearth and be able to capitalize on a fall flow to be ready for winter? If yes, don't feed let them roll.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

If they are low on stores, you may need to feed. If they are not low on stores, I would not. A dearth is one of the worst times to feed but also a time you may need to. If you have to feed in a dearth take precautions against robbing.


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## mlanden (Jun 19, 2016)

Michael Bush said:


> If they are low on stores, you may need to feed. If they are not low on stores, I would not. A dearth is one of the worst times to feed but also a time you may need to. If you have to feed in a dearth take precautions against robbing.
> 
> OK -- re: precautions, would I need to do anything special? I'm using a 1.5 gal capacity frame feeder in the upper deep, so .... that shouldn't be accessible to robbers, should it?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

If there is a door it's accessible to robbers... reducing the entrance will help. Robber screens will help. I don't like a top feeder for feeding at times other than the fall. In the fall if they are light you are trying to get a lot of stores on quickly. Any other time when they should be rearing some brood, it clogs the brood nest to feed a lot quickly and sets the colony back when the queen can't lay. Of course a dearth sometimes sets them back as well if the queen shuts down. A slower method of feeding is better during a dearth in my opinion.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesrobbing.htm


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## johnsof (Oct 14, 2014)

I'm with him. One or two 1/2 gallon jars with a couple of small holes punched in the lid gives them the necessary feed without them sucking it down 'way too fast. You have to fab a shim with a piece of 1/4" plywood fastened to it and a hole bored in just smaller than the lip (rim) of the lid so the jar can stick down into the top box with a small gap under the jar lid, and then put an empty box on top of the shim to cover the jars, but if you want to control how quickly they take the syrup this is the way to do it.
I might use a top feeder in the early spring if I am establishing a new hive from a package and they need to make a lot of comb, otherwise I agree, only for fall when I want them to take a gallon or two in a week. For a new hive, after a couple of weeks I will change from the top feeder over to a jar and keep them at a 1/2 gallon every couple of weeks, that's enough for them to build up the colony without overdoing it and backfilling. Otherwise it's swarm city.


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## Gazelle (May 17, 2015)

Good to know !


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## IAmTheWaterbug (Jun 4, 2014)

Michael Bush said:


> If there is a door it's accessible to robbers... reducing the entrance will help. Robber screens will help. I don't like a top feeder for feeding at times other than the fall. In the fall if they are light you are trying to get a lot of stores on quickly. Any other time when they should be rearing some brood, it clogs the brood nest to feed a lot quickly and sets the colony back when the queen can't lay. Of course a dearth sometimes sets them back as well if the queen shuts down. A slower method of feeding is better during a dearth in my opinion.
> 
> http://www.bushfarms.com/beesrobbing.htm


Yes, I think I killed a colony by feeding while they were queenless (though I didn't know it at the time).

I put a jar feeder on top of the colony, and it was drained in half a day. I did it a few more times, and then when I opened up the hive it was nearly empty of food and of bees.

The curious thing is that I was feeding all 6 of my colonies, so the robbers had plenty of syrup available right above them. Why would they go next door if they have food at home? Darn Italians!

Of course this assumes that the robbers were coming from my other colonies. I suppose they could have been coming from anywhere.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Why not feed them Lauri's sugar bricks instead.
I plan to give them the bricks on this summer dearth. But so far
with the excess winter rains the trees are still blooming. I think I need to
supplement plant some more.


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

mlanden said:


> OK -- re: precautions, would I need to do anything special? I'm using a 1.5 gal capacity frame feeder in the upper deep, so .... that shouldn't be accessible to robbers, should it?





Michael Bush said:


> If they are low on stores, you may need to feed. If they are not low on stores, I would not. A dearth is one of the worst times to feed but also a time you may need to. If you have to feed in a dearth take precautions against robbing.


Mlanden, reading your posts in their entirety, you want to feed. You don't need to feed at this time. You shouldn't feed at this time. Michael's post is short and pregnant with good advice. It bears rereading.

Your bees have plenty of food to make it through your summer dearth. If you are in a suburban area, your bees will probably actually add stores from ornamental flowers and weeds, rather than lose stores, during the summer "dearth". You will likely have a fall flow of goldenrods and asters. You certainly don't need to feed the bees at this time. Unlike winter, in the summer, you can easily check your stores and feed the bees if you need to. I would pull the feeders out of the hives if they are in there and use that space for frames. Most of my frame feeders are gathering dust in the barn still in the cardboard box they came in. You will have plenty of times to feed the bees with your frame feeders in the future if you want to. If you do feed, keep your entrance around four square inches so the bees can defend it.


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## Durhamblakes (May 2, 2018)

This was really helpful. Thanks.


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## edzkoda (Aug 9, 2014)

johnsof said:


> I'm with him. One or two 1/2 gallon jars with a couple of small holes punched in the lid gives them the necessary feed without them sucking it down 'way too fast. You have to fab a shim with a piece of 1/4" plywood fastened to it and a hole bored in just smaller than the lip (rim) of the lid so the jar can stick down into the top box with a small gap under the jar lid, and then put an empty box on top of the shim to cover the jars, but if you want to control how quickly they take the syrup this is the way to do it.
> I might use a top feeder in the early spring if I am establishing a new hive from a package and they need to make a lot of comb, otherwise I agree, only for fall when I want them to take a gallon or two in a week. For a new hive, after a couple of weeks I will change from the top feeder over to a jar and keep them at a 1/2 gallon every couple of weeks, that's enough for them to build up the colony without overdoing it and backfilling. Otherwise it's swarm city.




Where do you get 1/2 gallon jars?


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