# Cold weather installation on foundation



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

If you put them in your basement and keep them dark and quiet and make sure they don't run out of food, you can keep them confined for quite some time. I usually refill the cans if I think they will be there a while. There are two types. One has a rubber grommet and a piece of cloth. These are quite easy to refill. The other just has small holes punched. These, I use a "church key" and put just big enough of a hole to get syrup to run in. Then I soften some beeswax or propolis and stop the hole with it and put the can back in. If you don't want to refill cans, you can spray some syrup on the screen once a day. Soak the screen pretty good and let them suck the syrup off. You could do that about twice for each package and they should not starve. If you do install when it's cold, you need to give them something they can take, that means whatever it is has to be against the cluster and either dry (like dry sugar) or warm (like syrup you warm up at least once a day so they can take it). You can warm syrup up to what you can stand to put your finger in without getting burned and they can take it very well. You would need to warm it once a day until things warm up. Remove the cold syrup and put it in a pan and warm it then put it back in the feeders. Feeders that they don't get into work well (jars, cans ect. with holes as opposed to frame feeders) because you can get the bees off of them.


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## Andrew Dewey (Aug 23, 2005)

Michael's plan is a good one - but I've got to say "Welcome to agriculture!" Sometimes the only way to success is by ad libbing. Dark and quiet and don't let them run out of food. Keep them cool too. I'll bet you can keep them going in the package for close to ten days.


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## urbanoutlaw (Nov 19, 2012)

Thanks much for the feedback. We'll do the best we can with what nature throws at us.

I got burned this month on my early plant starts as well. Some years you win, some you don't!

**Edit**
10 days would get us a LOT closer to better weather. It's something to think about. Regardless, I'm seriously considering to feed both warmed syrup and dry sugar with our lows in the 20s.


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## urbanoutlaw (Nov 19, 2012)

Our best bets weather-wise seem to be Saturday, and _possibly_ Monday depending on when and how likely it is to rain. Meanwhile, my husband is concerned about the queen getting fed and/or her attendants dying. 

Do we need to give each queen cage a droplet of water or syrup at every feeding? My husband also wants to expose the candy plug. Not sure letting them work on the queen's candy is a good idea, but I'll ask the question.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

The cage is in the package is it not? The bees in the package will feed the queen. Odds are there are no attendants in the cage. There certainly don't need to be.

Installing them when it's cold out isn't the worst option, it often keeps them from drifting or absconding, you just have to keep the syrup warm if the weather is cold. Also make sure the bees are warm when you install so they can crawl back up after you shake them in. If they are cold they could get chilled and not make it back up to the cluster.


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## jim81147 (Feb 18, 2013)

How would that advice apply when the hive set-up is new and no comb has been drawn yet?


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## Broadside (Mar 29, 2012)

I'm getting my bees same time and place, I've made candy to put on them and will be using boardmans vice a top feeder until it warms up. Highs are suppose to be around 50 and they never get it right, so I'm going for it. Each hive will have a couple frames of drawn comb though. I'll have my bottom oil trap in but venting through the inner cover.


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## urbanoutlaw (Nov 19, 2012)

Broadside - I had second thoughts about bringing them home with today's highs in the 50s, but we stuck with the plan. If they were staying at the house or I had drawn comb we definitely would've installed them today. For now, they're stashed in our basement fermentation and storage room. The ale temps seem to be good enough for the bees.

All in all, I'm excited to have our first bees despite the unseasonable weather!
http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/basementbrewmistress/2013-03-20_18-20-12_577.jpg


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## Broadside (Mar 29, 2012)

I installed my three. Did not use any sugar spray due to the marginal temps, but everything went OK. As long as they snuggle up to the queen they should be good (queens looked a little small, but I haven't had young queens before, just old ones from a couple poor nucs). By the time I was done almost all the straggler bees had made it up into the hive (I kept them in the truck until ready to dump them in). I put a lot of candy and a pollen patty on them (some bees still had pollen on them!). I had to put my hive top feeders on empty just to have some space for the candy, I made it a bit too thick.
Hopefully you can get them in this weekend, I think it's supposed to be a little warmer than tomorrow. FYI, the cans have one small hole for the bees to lap from (no fill plug), and there are attendants with the queen. The cork was a bear to get out...don't bother with the hive tool use a small nail or awe.


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## urbanoutlaw (Nov 19, 2012)

Thanks for the heads-up. Spent some time today making candy since it'll be mostly too cold for them to want syrup. I'll probably spray the foundation and sprinkle in some sugar tonight - anything to keep the food as close as possible. I keep trying to tell myself it's not a total loss if they don't make it since we'll have a nuc coming later this Spring, but I'd still feel bad about it.

So we will install them tomorrow or Saturday. If they stay here much longer our dog will break down the door to our storage room and try to eat both packages. He's already enjoyed several sugar-coated hitchhikers that crawled under the door....


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## NickW (Mar 22, 2013)

I’m new to all this; in any event, I also picked up two packages on 3/20 and hustled back home (just outside of Williamsburg) as fast as the law would allow. When I arrived it was a beautiful day warm and quiet, so I installed them; unfortunately, today is brutal it was snowing and the wind was howling, tonight it’s going to be in the mid 20’s, so I’m worried my Girls won’t break cluster to feed from the top feeder. The forecast is mid/low 50’s for the next several days with the nights in the 20’s. They were installed on new foundation, smallest reducer opening and bottom board in place. I'm thinking of blocking up the reducer and bringing both hives into the garage for the next week. Any advice would be appreciated.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

> I'm thinking of blocking up the reducer and bringing both hives into the garage for the next week.

I would wait on this to see what has happened with the feed levels each day. If the levels drop, clearly they can access the feeder. Make sure it doesn't run out. If you have to, you can swap out cold feed for warmed feed containers on a daily basis for a few days.


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## urbanoutlaw (Nov 19, 2012)

Hived the packages today. They had maybe 1/2 a can of syrup left and started to build comb in the package - beautiful, fragile white stuff. I would've rubber banded it to a frame, but I have a feeling they'll build enough crazy comb as it is if they make it through the week. 

Bad news is I got called for two out of town medical appointments - they're extremely difficult to get, so I can't cancel. But that means no warmed syrup. Worse, the forecast calls for highs in the 40s with rain and snow for the next three days - won't be above 50 again until Friday. We left the feed cans on top of the frames along with our feed, pollen substitute, and hard candy. 

:ws:

Lesson learned: If we have to buy packages again, it won't be for March delivery....


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

As mentioned before, this is not the end of the world. I don't spray the bees with sugar water at all, I keep them warmish until I'm ready to hive, I shake them in quite quickly to be efficient. I hang the cage between two frames. Warm syrup on top and I'm done. From opening of the package to walking away it's maybe two minutes.


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## NickW (Mar 22, 2013)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> >
> I would wait on this to see what has happened with the feed levels each day. If the levels drop, clearly they can access the feeder. Make sure it doesn't run out. If you have to, you can swap out cold feed for warmed feed containers on a daily basis for a few days.


I checked the feed level this morning, they had not taken a drop as far as I could tell, so I removed the feeders and did the Mountain Camp method misted with warm water, took a peak this afternoon and they were in a feeding frenzy poor things. Lots of activity outside the hives too; although, one hive seems to be doing much better than the other. Don't know why, both were installed the same way at the same time; in any event, two more days of cold rain/snow mix then a very slow warming trend. Thanks for your help ya'll.


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## UTvolshype (Nov 26, 2012)

I installed two packages last Monday, so far so good. Queens are out of the boxes but almost no wax has been blown on the foundation. It's been cool here all week (north Ga) and the forecast is just as bad for this coming week. So I'm putting a garage light under the nucs boxes tomorrow and adding more 2:1 sugar mixture to the top feeders. A 60 watt light blub will generate some needed heat for the coming week. Call me crazy but right now the bees are just wasting time and are too cold to work on the foundation.


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## Broadside (Mar 29, 2012)

The temp was just into the 50s Saturday and the bees were flying. I think as others have said they'll be fine even though we have several more days of cold weather. I could tell mine were taking the candy, there was lots of sugar dust in the beetle pan (I have Freeman beetle traps for my bottom boards). All three took some syrup (using boardmans until it warms up) Saturday. These were very good packages with lots of bees, a week delay in building isn't going to be the end of the world.









(BTW the manage attachments tab isn't working for me, so I can't delete the attached photo....which I never attached in the first place.)


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Broadside, when using a 3rd party photo host, if you *UN*-click the checkbox on the URL tab on the "Insert Image" tool most likely you will avoid getting the attachment issue you referenced above. 

(But after you have _already _made the initial post, that won't help fix it.)


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## urbanoutlaw (Nov 19, 2012)

Broadside, nice looking yard!



Broadside said:


> These were very good packages with lots of bees, a week delay in building isn't going to be the end of the world.


I have to agree. Even with this being our first packages, they were very full and few dead bees on the bottom. I felt pretty good about things until reading a post on FB about someone who already lost a hive. Guess we'll find out on Thursday. :S


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## bnm1000 (Oct 12, 2011)

I just received two packages today - 6 inches of snow on the ground and temperatures in the 30's. It is supposed to get into the 40's tomorrow. It won't get to 50 until Friday. Should i keep the packages in my detached garage (no heat), or bring them in the house until I hive them?

Should I go ahead and put them in the hive while it is in the mid 40's?

thanks!


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

People have hived packages in the 30s before. I have made splits when it was 32 out before (of course it warmed to 50 that afternoon), so you shouldn't have much issue. MAKE SURE they have plenty of food.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

The biggest issue with a package with no comb and no stores and cold, is food. They can't take cold syrup...


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## fritz_monroe (May 27, 2010)

There's been several mentions of being too cool or warming up. What type of temperature are you talking about as being too cool?


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## JonnyBeeGood (Aug 2, 2012)

I hived 2 packages yesterday here in Connecticut. 40 deg. temp. & a cool breeze. I worked quickly and got them all closed up in a few mins. Wasn't supposed to go below freezing overnight and daytime highs are supposed to be near or at 50 this week so I went for it. I didn't have any frames with drawn comb ready so I put them on new foundation with a frame feeder full of warm syrup. 
I put the queen in the middle of the hive but I'm thinking that I should have put her closer to the feeder, like 2 frames away. I plan to go back today, warm up the syrup again and pull 2 frames of drawn comb from my other hive and sandwich the queen in between. I'll probably put some foam insulation on top too!


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## NickW (Mar 22, 2013)

O.K. my one week wait is up tomorrow, I have followed the book almost to the letter, the only change I made was to remove the top syrup feeder and replace it with the Mountain Camp method because it’s just been really cold here. In this one week I’ve had two good days were the Bees were flying, the rest have been cold as hell with rain, sleet and snow. In any event, tomorrow -following the book- I’m supposed to check to see if the Queen has been released and there are eggs being laid but, tomorrows high is only going to be 52, should I wait till it’s warmer or go for it? Thanks.


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## urbanoutlaw (Nov 19, 2012)

How did everyone's packages fare? For the sake of future novices, what method(s) did you use? What would you change?

Both queens were out and hives flying as of yesterday. As I understand is customary, one hive is significantly stronger/more active than the other. As for methods, we kept our packages inside (per Michael Bush's instructions) for three days, feeding syrup by spray bottle to make sure they were full. When installing them, I left sugar candy, half a pollen patty and 1:1 syrup (1 gal chicken waterer) directly on the top bars (used empty supers to cover it). We also closed the SBB and used the entrance reducer on the smallest opening. If I had it to do over again, I would worry less and use a standard hivetop feeder. The chicken waterer worked well and stayed warm, but refilling it can be disruptive.

Next?


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

I hived them in the 30's. Dumped them fast, put room temp syrup on top and they're fine. They fly every day. Queens are out. All is well.


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## bnm1000 (Oct 12, 2011)

Kept mine in the house from Monday to Thursday. Installed them in about 45 degree weather. Fortunately, it was warmer than expected on Friday and today looks to be in the upper 50's to low 60's. Bees flying around and starting to see them on the earliest nectar sources (some kind of small purple weed). Hope these do well - i have two more packages coming in late April!


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## JonnyBeeGood (Aug 2, 2012)

Checked mine today. Both queens out. All appears well, Flying, guarding, building comb... One hive sucked down a gallon of syrup, while the other barely touched it. Gonna watch them close for the next few days. Try to insulate that hive a little more to keep the syrup warmer.


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## Broadside (Mar 29, 2012)

I had the same thing happen, one hive did not take the syrup while the other two sucked it down. It's all but dead now, the queen is dead for sure. If they are not eating, you might want to treat for nosema. If the packages were the same size and the hives have the same setup/lighting/comb/etc and one of them isn't taking feed well, something may be wrong. No eating = dead bees.


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## Irons (Dec 29, 2005)

If the temps hit 30* at night, would it be better to swap the jar out with a warm jar of sugar water from the house in the morning? (With temps 50* + during the day.)


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## Broadside (Mar 29, 2012)

In the same weather my healthy hives took the syrup like free wine at a wedding without any warming. If they are in full sun the sun will warm it up for you.


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## JonnyBeeGood (Aug 2, 2012)

2nd package taking syrup better now. I put a piece of 2" insulation against the side of the hive where the syrup is. 1st gallon is treateded for nosema just as a precaution. Temps expected to reach 50's in the daytime this week but down in the 20's at night so I'm going to leave the insulation on top for now. Once they get there numbers up naturally they will be able to keep it warmer in there. 
Trees are just starting to bud here.


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## urbanoutlaw (Nov 19, 2012)

Interestingly, during the last few nights of near or sub-freezing weather the smaller hive doubled their syrup consumption. Even better, it appears that tonight will be our last freeze for the foreseeable future. 

It appears only one colony was lost and that loss may be attributable to Nosema rather than weather. The MAAREC literature on packages states that bees could die if hived on foundation in less than 57F weather. Given some of the anecdotal evidence on this forum, I wonder where that number comes from. Is there a scientific study specifically on success of colonies hived on foundation in cold weather? I didn't see anything in AGRICOLA (assuming it's the right place for science-based honey bees articles).


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## JonnyBeeGood (Aug 2, 2012)

Went through the 2 new hives yesterday and was pleased to see that both packages have accepted the queens. Both queens just started laying, I saw a good number of new eggs so they are starting up!! They had also built some drone comb on the bottoms of a few frames. They have built comb out on 3 or 4 frames and filled most of it up with syrup, even capped some!
My big hive is loaded with capped brood and quite a bit of capped drone brood too! Gotta get ready or swarm season!!!!


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## ryanbekke (Feb 2, 2012)

I know the feeling far too well today, I just got my packages installed this last saturday with a good forecast and now the weather is changing for the worst, go figure. I have two frames of drawn comb in each of my five hives. Today it was seventy degrees and they are now calling for a small blizzard here in western Nebraska with temperatures dropping to the low teens on Tues & Wed. It was pouring down rain when I got off work tonight so I didn't have time to get them protected. I really hope that my bees will make the two day cold spell. Any info on a similar case is welcome here. 

I will be praying for my bees sake. -Ryan


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

They will be fine if they have sugar or honey.


ryanbekke said:


> I know the feeling far too well today, I just got my packages installed this last saturday with a good forecast and now the weather is changing for the worst, go figure. I have two frames of drawn comb in each of my five hives. Today it was seventy degrees and they are now calling for a small blizzard here in western Nebraska with temperatures dropping to the low teens on Tues & Wed. It was pouring down rain when I got off work tonight so I didn't have time to get them protected. I really hope that my bees will make the two day cold spell. Any info on a similar case is welcome here.
> 
> I will be praying for my bees sake. -Ryan


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## ryanbekke (Feb 2, 2012)

Vance G said:


> They will be fine if they have sugar or honey.


Vance, I sure hope so. I just go outside and it is very cold, Being a new package and all I just feel for them, and can only imagine what is going on inside the new hive. I just don't want to loose $450 on five packages of bees, but more importantly the Bees Themselves. I will let you know how they go. Thanks -Ryan


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

Vance is right. My first year I hived bees and within a day the weather changed to 12 days of solid rain. Our local river topped the banks. No bees were flying. The only relief they had was my syrup that I was feeding them. All were on foundation. I had no comb at all. They all got through it just fine. It was April here in MA. Middle of the month.


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## ryanbekke (Feb 2, 2012)

Ravenseye said:


> Vance is right. My first year I hived bees and within a day the weather changed to 12 days of solid rain. Our local river topped the banks. No bees were flying. The only relief they had was my syrup that I was feeding them. All were on foundation. I had no comb at all. They all got through it just fine. It was April here in MA. Middle of the month.


Thanks, Ravenseye, 
I am a little more at ease now with You & Vance's comments, however I will feel 100% better when I see them buzzing around again in the next day or so. 
Thanks Again. -Ryan


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

Yeah...I'm with you. Bee's flying and doing their thing is what really makes you feel good. Please let us know when you're in the clear. I definitely remember the feeling of relief when all looked well!!! I was right with you not too long ago and asked for opinions here. Even though a lot of great beekeepers chimed in, there was nothing better than seeing those bee's fly. I remember it well and I'm glad you posted here.


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## JonnyBeeGood (Aug 2, 2012)

ryanbekke said:


> I know the feeling far too well today, I just got my packages installed this last saturday with a good forecast and now the weather is changing for the worst, go figure. I have two frames of drawn comb in each of my five hives. Today it was seventy degrees and they are now calling for a small blizzard here in western Nebraska with temperatures dropping to the low teens on Tues & Wed. It was pouring down rain when I got off work tonight so I didn't have time to get them protected.]
> 
> Ryan, how are you making out? The drawn combs you put in, did they have any honey or just empty? Did you get any insulation on, at least on top of the hives? After I put a piece of insulation board against the side where the frame feeder is and filled it with warm syrup it helped during the last cold spell. Ya, I know, micromanaging. But with only a few hives and still in my 1st year I don't want to lose them to something that I could have prevented.
> We just had a few beautiful days here but now it's heading back to cold, rain, some sleet forecast for tomorrow & wind too for the next few days. I may put the insulation back on top through this cold snap. Every little bit helps while they're getting established !!


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## ryanbekke (Feb 2, 2012)

Jonnybeeggood, The bees made it through just fine like Vance said they would. Yes I put 3 drawn combs from last year with honey stores in them for food. I was able to wrap one hive with a tarp but my others hives were snowed in and I couldn't get to them. I was a nervous wreck over the whole deal. I think making the entrance as small as possible and having plenty of food (Honey) helped out. It was the 10 & 11 degree weather that scared me the most. Good Luck with them.


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## ryanbekke (Feb 2, 2012)

"Even though a lot of great beekeepers chimed in, there was nothing better than seeing those bee's fly" *How true this is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*


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## JonnyBeeGood (Aug 2, 2012)

Ryan check this post out. 
http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...with-Queen-cells&p=923203&posted=1#post923203


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