# Top bar nuc size



## tomcheetoh (Dec 20, 2013)

hello fellow beeks,
I am in the process of building several top bar hives and am in need some advice. I have built two crowder style top bar hives and want to build a NUC box or mating NUC. Any suggestions on length? 15 3/8 is the only size I found online but I wanted to make it shorter than a ten bar box. Any recommendations?
Thank you.


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

I have a 10 bar nuc that I find a little too big for propagating bees by splits, but it works great as a swarm trap. The 5 bar standard nucs are too narrow for me unless I do a medium on 5 frame nuc on top to house a feeder. (yes, I am using standard Lang nucs for TBH splits) This year I did 7 bar nucs which allows me to put a jar feeder in there or the division board feeder. The boards are cut to 10" and that fits 7 of the narrower bars. Bars are standard Lang length of 19.x inches.


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## ChuckReburn (Dec 17, 2013)

I've got a bunch at 16 1/4 (based on Lang width) that work well for me, next batch will probably be 14" (8 frame Lang). This allow top covers to just be langstroth telescoping lids. I worked with Les Crowder a few months back, he just splits the hive in half with a division board and runs nucs out of either end.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Bigger than you think you need is usually better. When there are not many bees in it you can always use a divider, but that extra room is handy if you have to put a feeder in there, or if you find the nuc has grown quickly and needs some more room, you can move the divider.

A fairly minimal size for a nuc is 4 bars, but if you build one that can take 8 or 10 bars you have that space if needed. I'm also guessing the reason for actually having a nuc box rather than do it in a full hive with a divider, is that you want something small enough to be able to be moved easily? If so, keep the construction light, it does not have to be as sturdily built as a full length hive.

If moving the nuc easily is not a requirement, you may be better to run the nuc in a full length hive as stated by others, in view of how fast a colony can grow.


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## AugustC (Aug 7, 2013)

Weeeeeeeell... queen breeding nucs technically only need to be 3-4 combs BUT it is sensible to have it a little scalable. Personally I would go for 8-10 bar nucs. These you could use as bait hives in spring then split in half and use as double queens nucs (entrance on each side) in summer (4 bars for each colony and two followers =10). If you really wanted you could just divide up a full top bar hive and raise 8 queens in one hive. That way if a queen doesn't return or fails to mate you can always combine with the one next door. Best of luck.


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## shannonswyatt (May 7, 2012)

I've come to the same conclusion as ChuckReburn. I have a bunch of TBH nucs between as little as 12 inches long to 30 inches. Any new ones will be be sized to either an 8 frame or 10 frame lang so I can use the lids if I need to on a Lang.


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## Duncan151 (Aug 3, 2013)

Why not figure out the internal volume of your particular TBH, then you can calculate how long you need to make it to be an equal volume to a 5 frame deep Nuc, 10 frame deep, 8 frame medium etc. That has worked for me for determining the length of my Nucs, and my swarm traps, while still using my original dimensions for my Top Bar, bars.


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## amirbay (Nov 21, 2014)

AugustC said:


> If you really wanted you could just divide up a full top bar hive and raise 8 queens in one hive.


That means 4 entrances on each side, right? If I use it for mating, wouldn't it increase chances of queen returning to the wrong entrance? Is there any technique to mitigate it?


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

amirbay said:


> That means 4 entrances on each side, right? If I use it for mating, wouldn't it increase chances of queen returning to the wrong entrance? Is there any technique to mitigate it?


different paint colors or designs near each entrance location. just not red, they don't see that end of the spectrum.


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## shannonswyatt (May 7, 2012)

The reason for the different sized nucs for me was I was making them for different things and I was also using scrap wood at times. I made a bunch around a foot long that are fine for mating or for splits, but nothing much else. 

It is harder to multipurpose a TBH the way you can a lang since the top bars define the hive. You can do it, but it is easier having dedicated hives for queen mating and splits.


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## Eric Crosby (Jan 4, 2015)

I actually cut a 3/8 wide 38 depth channel in the center interior of each of my TBH. Then with a division board that fits snugly in the channel each TBH can become 2 TBH. Handy for mating and overwintering. I have these on all lengths of hive from 2ft-4ft and find them very useful.

EC


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## AugustC (Aug 7, 2013)

amirbay said:


> That means 4 entrances on each side, right? If I use it for mating, wouldn't it increase chances of queen returning to the wrong entrance? Is there any technique to mitigate it?


Ruthie's right colours are good but basic shapes are often better. You can actually make use of it to move the bees around if you need to bolster a particular population. Cards with circle, square, triangle, cross etc on pinned over the entrance.


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## Delta Bay (Dec 4, 2009)

A box that holds 9 or 10 bars comes in hand for several purposes. It is small and light enough to easily carry with you. Carrying honey combs as well as extra brood combs to and from the yard. Also can be used for extra top bars to have on hand after harvesting honey combs or after taking a split off a hive. As others have said divider boards can be used to reduce volume for mating queens etc...


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

amirbay said:


> That means 4 entrances on each side, right?


No.



amirbay said:


> If I use it for mating, wouldn't it increase chances of queen returning to the wrong entrance? Is there any technique to mitigate it?


Yes.

Put an entrance at each end of the hive, then you only have 3 entrances running down each side. Put the middle of the three near the top of the hive, the other two near the bottom. Paint the section around the middle hole black, a black section a foot wide or 6 inches out each side from the hole. You will not lose too many queens to drift.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Mine are 12 bars... cannot remember the exact dimension. Les Crowder foot print, too. The combs are pretty small in this design so you might want to go bigger than you'd think. It takes about two Les Crowder combs to equal a single deep comb if my quick brain math isn't terrible far off. Keep that in mind.


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## krista45036 (Oct 7, 2014)

hello all - what type of wood did you use? is untreated plywood okay for the nuc body?


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## shannonswyatt (May 7, 2012)

Pine is fine, but stay away from plywood for two reasons. The first is off gasing of the glue in plywood and the second is that it won't last as long as pine. You could use cedar of Cyprus, but that would be a lot more expensive, at least where I live.


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## krista45036 (Oct 7, 2014)

thx shannon


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

I made a half length box primarily to transport the crop back to the extracting room. It could double as a swarm trap or nuc box.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

If I were making them for mating nucs, I'd make them take two bars.

If I were making them for nucs to split into, probably five bars.

If I were making them for swarm traps, probably ten bars.


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