# The craze over 5- frame nucs



## Rusty Hills Farm (Mar 24, 2010)

PERSONAL OPINION ONLY: "Craze" is precisely the right word. There are sooo many newbees in beekeeping who are still trying to figure it all out who are sooo afraid of losing their entire investment in their first years, that they'll try ANYTHING! Yes, nucs have a place in the overall picture, but it is a SMALL place. I've been at this for over 20 years and I don't have a nuc box on the place. When I want a nuc space for a particular colony, I use division boards to make it in a big box, because it is only temporary in my bee yard. My personal goal is to grow full-sized production colonies that make honey and bees.

I think you have to figure out what your goals are and figure out your own path to get you to those goals. There are so many "right" ways to get you where you want to be that you need to have a firm plan in place and not let yourself be distracted by every gimmick that comes along. Just because a new method works for someone else does not automatically make it is right for your bees, equipment, location, and abilities.

JMO


Rusty


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

I dunno....Michael Palmer doesn't seem like a newbee and it is a significant part of his system.
I, on the other hand, have become unwilling to make late season splits....just becomes fodder for shb here.
Probably depends on a lot of things....but I wouldn't think of it as a craze.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Craze? You're in Kentucky and Alabama. Keep bees in Vermont for a few years, and we'll talk about craze.


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

Nucs are not a "craze" but simply tools that serve many purposes. Many beekeepers beyond newbies use them and they are hardly new and certainly not a "gimmick." R.O.B Manley (once England's largest beekeeper,) wrote about his use of them in his book "Honey Farming" back in the 1940's. They were an integral part of Brother Adams operations at Buckfast Abbey back as far as the 1930s. I'm sure there are many earlier uses of nucs in beekeeping but I can't put my finger on any other references now. 

If you don't know why you would need them, then it is likely that you do not need them.

Wayne


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

You can certainly divide larger boxes into compartments but that takes some care and precision to keep each part bee tite. Five frame boxes separately can be moved handily, made of lighter construction, easy to turn upside down to dump etc. I have some of both. There is a lot to say for having just one size of box and making it do all things. Nothing wrong with trying different things though, and then later on settle on a system that suits your circumstances.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Michael Palmer said:


> Keep bees in Vermont for a few years, and we'll talk about craze.


Only long hair, hippy types keep bees in winter in Vermont!


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## Brandy (Dec 3, 2005)

It probably depends also on what your willing and able to lift. I find the 5 frame nucs the most convenient and versatile piece of equipment I have. I use them for swarms, swarm traps, splits, mating nucs, spare queens and overwintering those nucs. When I stack colonies for winter I don't have any dead spaces with 10 frames boxes only having 5 frames of bees. When and if they move into full size equipment no big deal. Not a craze, just a useful piece of equipment in some apiaries...


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## SS1 (Jun 1, 2013)

waynesgarden said:


> If you don't know why you would need them, then it is likely that you do not need them.
> Wayne



I agree.

I like having them for a couple of reasons. #1 reason is to sell the oiverwintered nucs in the spring.

The #2 reason, as Mister Palmer so eloquently explains in one of his vids, is sustaining my own apiary.
I have the ability to instantly replace winter loss.
I have my own young overwintered queens
I have a resource to draw from so that I do not have to damage my production hives.....
Meaning.. If I need a frame of brood to strengthen a hive, I can take it from the nucs. When I want to make queens. I take the nurse bees from multiple nucs. I take the capped brood from the nucs.. The NUCS will need to give up these things ANYHOW if they are being maintained AS nucs.. so in effect, I lose NOTHING by using the nucs as my resource, INSTEAD of full sized production hives.

If you have a hive or five.. You may not care about keeping any nuc's. Worst case scenario for you is you need to order more packages in the spring. If I lose 10 hives it would cost me nearly a grand to buy ten packages.. Having nucs means that grand can go toward something shiny that will keep my wife happy.....


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## johng (Nov 24, 2009)

I love nucs. I made up 15 nucs after the main flow was over I did have to feed them some through the dearth to get them by. But, now they are 5 full frames of bees. With these nucs I have many options, I can use them to replace any production hives, I can sell them at a premium in Feb. as overwintered nucs, I can split them early March and sell two spring nucs, I can break them up into mating nucs early March, or I can keep them for increase hives to make honey with next year. These nucs where made during a time of year when I would not have other wise got very much out of my bees honey wise. But, with a little feed I was able to get new hives and build back up the donor hives where they were ready to take advantage of the fall flow. I believe every bee keeper should have at least a few nucs around at all times. If you have a production hive go down during a flow the nuc can be plugged right in to keep the colony going. You normally only get one good chance to make a honey crop. Having options is always a good thing.


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## rookie2531 (Jul 28, 2014)

The intent of the question wasn't to start a battle, but to seriously contemplate, the advantages of a five frame nuc compared to a ten frame that can be fitted with division, dummy and luan covered foam board. I have made 4 of the D.Coates nuc boxes when I did a split, but now they are in the garage and the colonies are in ten frames out in the yard. If I just put them in a ten frame that was reduced down, then I wouldn't have boxes in storage, but would have dummy boards. I am trying to think long term, to not end up with more and more boxes in the garage.

As Mike Palmer says, keep bees in Vermont and then talk craze. I am not sure what that means. Are you saying that 5 frame boxes do better in the cold? Wouldn't a box with dummy boards on the ends be better for overwintering? Have you ever tried that?


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

I don't consider nucs a "craze", but I have to admit that lately there has been increased interest and discussion on overwintering nucs. I've been at this for a while and overwintering nucs is something I've never done before. I've had my hands full doing my best to keep my production colonies going. But this Winter I'm trying it, it captured my interest as well. The advantages, as mentioned in this thread, are numerous.

I can understand how a new beekeeper could be left with their head spinning trying to get a grasp on all this nuc business when they are still on the steep learning curve trying to figure out general beekeeping practices. I would advise a new beek to get a couple of seasons under their belt with established colonies before trying to overwinter nucs. Not saying a new beekeeper can't figure it out, but it's not as simple as just flopping down a few nucs in a field. 

As seen in MP's video, there is a lot of maintenance required managing nucs during the season. I guess I'll find out next Spring if it was worth the effort.


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

Mike Gillmore said:


> .... there is a lot of maintenance required managing nucs during the season. ....


There is, but that was what I found most appealing when I got back into keeping bees. There were all these baby hives that seemed to need a lot of attention while the parent hives could get the peace that they desired without someone poking their nose in the hive every few days.

Wayne


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

"What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun."--Ecclesiastes 1:9


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

Michael Bush said:


> "What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun."--Ecclesiastes 1:9


:thumbsup: x2 G


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

The double 4-frame Palmer nuc boxes are getting popular... 

Dividing ten frame boxes might be the "craze"... and not 5-frame nuc equipment. Double 5-frame mediums overwinter well in my area.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Mike Gillmore said:


> there is a lot of maintenance required managing nucs during the season.


For a new beekeeper that is one of the great things about nucs - they DO require monitoring and manipulation to keep them in their box, safe from robbers, properly stocked with stores, etc... Practice which applies directly to full sized hives without the same degree of risk, equipment cost, or time investment. Great learning tools plus insurance against all kinds of problems. Beginners who play with nucs are more likely to stick with it and become beekeepers in my experience.


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

My first year with nucs, and splits, and queen rearing, and like David just said, It was great from a teaching perspective. Mine will all be overwintered in full deeps, but, having to stay on top of things really gave me alot of insight. I may try the Palmer nucs on a couple in the spring. G


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## rookie2531 (Jul 28, 2014)

People can take it the wrong way easily when it comes to text. But anyway, im going to try the nucs in a ten frame boxes and see how that goes. If good, great. If bad, great.


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

Have you looked at the method Mike Palmer describes? I've tried it and it works well. You divide a 10 frame box into 2 nucs. On top of that you stack half width supers so as to be able to work the separate colonies without bees spilling over into the adjacent one.

Wayne


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

David LaFerney said:


> Great learning tools plus insurance against all kinds of problems.


"There are no problems with bees that can't be solved by either putting something into a nucleus or taking something from it..."

E.B. Wedmore


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## rookie2531 (Jul 28, 2014)

Yes, but what I'm thinking about is different. kind of like all the same frames and all the same boxes, everything works with everything. Im going to try putting spacers/dummies in ten frame boxes and have any size nuc/or otherwise that I need. could be a mating nuc or a ten framer, my choice.

I appreciate all the input and information. We all have to try and see what works best for each of us and I'm going to give this idea a go and see.


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

rookie2531 said:


> Yes, but what I'm thinking about is different. kind of like all the same frames and all the same boxes, everything works with everything. Im going to try putting spacers/dummies in ten frame boxes and have any size nuc/or otherwise that I need. could be a mating nuc or a ten framer, my choice.
> 
> I appreciate all the input and information. We all have to try and see what works best for each of us and I'm going to give this idea a go and see.


You wont be the first to employ that method, Im sure it has worked fine for many before you. Like you said, what works best for each of us. Good luck. Enjoy. G


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

rookie2531 said:


> Yes, but what I'm thinking about is different. kind of like all the same frames and all the same boxes, everything works with everything. Im going to try putting spacers/dummies in ten frame boxes and have any size nuc/or otherwise that I need. could be a mating nuc or a ten framer, my choice.
> 
> I appreciate all the input and information. We all have to try and see what works best for each of us and I'm going to give this idea a go and see.



I couldn't agree with you more. You use what's available and what works for you. It's not about the box, and the configuration. It's about you raising stocks from your own apiary in a way that supports that apiary by using the extra resources of that apiary. Your climate and your preferences dictate how you do it. My way is the best way for me to raise hundreds of nucs each year with the least amount of equipment, and winter them on their summer stands.


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