# Hot Dipping Tank



## Dan Williamson (Apr 6, 2004)

John F said:


> First, Bullseye Bill, how's the project tank with your buddy coming along?
> 
> Next, I have been thinking lately (I had to paint a few boxes) that this hot dipping looks like a great idea. I haven't exactly pursued this with any zeal yet but happened to stop by the Home Depot store yesterday. I noticed a gang tool box by Rigid which looked like a dipping tank to me.
> 
> ...


You are talking very hot temps that the steel and joints will be subjected too. Any leaks will/can cause a very serious fire hazard.


----------



## John F (Dec 9, 2005)

Dan Williamson said:


> You are talking very hot temps that the steel and joints will be subjected too. Any leaks will/can cause a very serious fire hazard.


Are you suggesting that 16ga welded steel in general is a bad idea or that gang tool boxes of this construction may be a bad idea?

I can't tell by the pictures I've seen exactly what folk's tanks are made of. Although I would imagine a stainless steel tank like used for commercial deep fat fryers would be a good choice.


----------



## Dan Williamson (Apr 6, 2004)

John F said:


> Are you suggesting that 16ga welded steel in general is a bad idea or that gang tool boxes of this construction may be a bad idea?
> 
> I can't tell by the pictures I've seen exactly what folk's tanks are made of. Although I would imagine a stainless steel tank like used for commercial deep fat fryers would be a good choice.


I don't know if it would work or not. 

My tank is an old 500 gal propane tank. The floor is 5/16" think and the side walls are 3/16 or 1/4" thick. Tank is so heavy I need a tractor to pick it up empty. The tank is round.

I'm just saying I doubt the welds on a tool box are designed to be heated to high temps and hold flammable liquids. Trust me I've been burned with 300deg hot paraffin. That grabs your attention in a hurry.

Its dangerous stuff. Be very very careful. only the floor of my tank needed welding it was welded inside AND outside and the way it was designed should the weld fail the paraffin would not drip into the area under the tank where the heat source is located. 

I'm no metal worker or knowledgeable about steel but I'm just giving a word of caution.


----------



## John F (Dec 9, 2005)

Dan Williamson said:


> I'm no metal worker or knowledgeable about steel but I'm just giving a word of caution.


I appreciate that and warnings like this are a good thing.


----------



## Curtis (Jun 25, 2005)

I use a 100qt stainless steel stock pot. It is an item that gets used for a lot of "recipes", one tool for a lot of different uses.
Only about $150.
Curtis


----------



## Gary L (Jan 24, 2007)

*dip tank*



Curtis said:


> I use a 100qt stainless steel stock pot. It is an item that gets used for a lot of "recipes", one tool for a lot of different uses.
> Only about $150.
> Curtis


Where do you get them? Gary


----------



## John F (Dec 9, 2005)

Gary L said:


> Where do you get them? Gary


I see one advertised on ebay. [edit: this on is aluminum]

What size boxes and how many can you do in one?

This looks like a great small timer idea!

Do you ever cook stuff in it to eat? Is it hard to get the paraffin out?


----------



## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

john f sezs:
They had two sizes: 32X19X18.5 and 48X24X??. They were 16 gauge steel and appeared to be welded as to be waterproof. (Would hold water as far as I could tell)

tecumseh replies:
well first off johnf I hope the spring is everything you hoped it to be.

having done quite a bit of metal fabriaction myself johnf the main problem with this idea is the method by which these boxs were fabricated. if you were meaning from the get go to maximize the likelyhood of a water tight seam you would most defitely want to use a stick weld application for mild steel and heli-arc for stainless or aluminum. however most consumer items (due to cost and ease) are fabricated using mig (wire fed gun).... the down side of this type of metal fabrication process is that the joints will almost 'always' leak (at the time I tested every vessels quite throughly since the application was almost exclusively in nuclear reactors).

if it was me... I would likely look for a metal animal watering trough of approximate size. how you might choose to heat the fluid would seem to me to be the first question you would need to answer in regards to how thick the material of the tank needs to be....


----------



## John F (Dec 9, 2005)

Curtis said:


> I use a 100qt stainless steel stock pot. It is an item that gets used for a lot of "recipes", one tool for a lot of different uses.
> Only about $150.
> Curtis


After thinking about this a bit, it seems it would be tippy. (I would have to use the turkey fryer stove for heat) As Dan has pointed out, this will be a tank of hot fuel.

How do you deal with tippy?


----------



## Keith Benson (Feb 17, 2003)

MMmm, a large tippy vat of liquid pre-heated fuel. Gruesome.

Can you have a metal frame welded such that the turkey frier burner can be slipped underneath, while still offering protection agains tipping?

Keith


----------



## John F (Dec 9, 2005)

tecumseh said:


> if you were meaning from the get go to maximize the likelyhood of a water tight seam you would most defitely ...


Is there some way to tell? They are meant for storing expensive tools at job sites so the pretense is that they are waterproof and theft proof. (so they have a very nice hinged lid)

As for heat source, I haven't thought that far. I suppose you could modify a grill burner (seems like I saw that on someone's tank) or a turkey fryer burner or use burners and blowers like Sheri (did I get that right?) does.

Here's the basic idea : http://www.industrialladder.com/productDetails.do?productID=2934&categoryID=229

Oh, I see that this one says it has fully arc welded seams. (Doesn't mean the one at HD does.)

A watering trough seems like a good idea too. (I have horses and my imagination is telling me you would need a ton of paraffin... But then you should be able to do about 20 boxes at a time. I'm sure there are smaller choices than the tank I have.)

So far the best idea seems like the purpose built electric "system" that Bullseye and his buddy have talked about.


----------



## Curtis (Jun 25, 2005)

This is not rocket science but it does require common sense. Here is the stock pot that I use. http://www.instawares.com/stainless-steel-stock-pot.upi-sps100.0.7.htm
I use one of those big cooker stands to heat it, and it is not tipsy. You have to remember that I am using parfin which has a flash point just above 400. Candles are made of parfin and I have never had one of them blow up on me...but here comes common sense in the picture...I never let a candle burn all the way down and melt all over the place. A candle has a small flame in it...it is controled by the size of the wick. When I heat my parfin I do not put the burner on full blast. I take my time and heat it up slowly, when the temp gets above 200 I start inserting my woodenware. Now One must remember that things expand when heated, and the woodenware has moisture in it. So I only fill my pot half way and leave the rest for expansion and head room. Remember this is just like cooking french fries. They need a lot of room to boil. I continue to heat the parfin to around 340. I cook my wares untill they slow way down on the boil just like french fries...I do like my fries on the brown side. When I take my wood out I make sure not to stand over the fire and let the parfin drain on the fire. I put my wood on a table that drains away from the fire. The wood drains just like my french fries drain also. It looks like there is a lot of grease but when they have cooled they have a "cooked done" feeling. By letting them cook like this, the parfin has cooked into the fibers of the wood. When in the rain all the water does is bead up and run off.
I like the process that I use...it might take me a little longer than others but I do it once for a lifetime.
It works for me...it might not work for others.
Common Sense 
Curtis


----------



## Curtis (Jun 25, 2005)

Sorry I failed to address a couple of concerns.
The stock pot cleans up very nice. After use I pour the parfin into 3 5 gal buckets each will have about 3 to 4 gal of parfin in it. Then I turn the pot over and let all the parfin drain out as can. Then I clean it with Greased Lighting. If there are any stains in the bottom I use a scouring pad on them. Then I heat up 5 gal of water with dish soap and scrub good. Then rinse a couple time and let dry. This is a stainless steel pot that does not absorb flavors. When done it looks like brand new. 

Be carefull with aluminum and the thin bottomed steel containers that some are talking about. The bottom can and will be burned thru after a few uses. This one is a heavy "sandwiched" bottom that after many uses shows no wear.
Curtis


----------



## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

*Tanks for the thought*

>First, Bullseye Bill, how's the project tank with your buddy coming along?

I wish he wasn't an artist. I also wish I hadn't been a nice guy and sold my old tank to MB, yet. I have a bunch of wood to dip. 

Reed's brother is a certified welder and can do all types of welding. His last job was on a nuclear reactor site, he thinks he is an artist too. Reed wants him to do all the welding because he is so good and we would not worry about any pinholes or leaks if he does all the welding. Coordinating the timing has turned into a major frustration for all of us. Two weeks ago they had the metal cut out and were ready to weld it up when the realized that the 14 gage cold rolled steel they were using for the prototype was going to weigh over 50 pounds so they opted to set another date to use lighter material. 

The tank as planed will accommodate five assembled mediums or three deeps at a time. Will also hold a standard sized hive stand, (24 x 16). Reed wants to offer them in both 16 gage cold rolled and 18 gage stainless steel. It has a lid that doubles as a drip tray and two handles.

For some reason Reed has been really busy making embossed metal boob cups and other metal bobbles for belly-dancers. If I could just get him to get his mind off boobs and onto bees the rest of us would be a lot happier.


----------



## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

john f sezs:
Is there some way to tell? They are meant for storing expensive tools at job sites so the pretense is that they are waterproof and theft proof.

tecumseh answers:
an open topped tank????.... only by filling with water and heating to the appropriate temperature. I would suspect that with thermal expansion created by heating is when any leak would likely show themself. most likely the boxs are water resistant and not waterproof. likely they are also theft resistant.


then john f adds:
Oh, I see that this one says it has fully arc welded seams. (Doesn't mean the one at HD does.)

tecumseh replies:
this simply means they may have been constructed using stick, mig or a tig process. due to speed of process quite likely gas shielded mig. you can create an non perfect weld using any of these processes. gas shielded mig is almost impossible to create a perfect water tight seam. 

then john f sezs:
A watering trough seems like a good idea too. 

tecumseh replies:
I was thinking about one of those smaller watering tanks that the recreational horsy set use and appears to be about 100 gallons in volumn. 

then bullseye adds:
Reed's brother is a certified welder and can do all types of welding. His last job was on a nuclear reactor site, he thinks he is an artist too.

tecumseh thinks out loud:
aren't they all brother? a common malady of about every welder (well at least the really good ones) that I have know. not my observation directly but someone (who was more than a pretty good welder himself) suggested that most had modest to severe prima donna complexs.


----------



## honeyman46408 (Feb 14, 2003)

"an open topped tank????.... only by filling with water and heating to the appropriate temperature. I would suspect that with thermal expansion created by heating is when any leak would likely show themself. most likely the boxs are water resistant and not waterproof. likely they are also theft resistant."

That will bee a good test to start with but oil will go where water wont


----------



## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

*Primadonna welder*

>tecumseh thinks out loud:
aren't they all brother? a common malady of about every welder (well at least the really good ones) that I have know. not my observation directly but someone (who was more than a pretty good welder himself) suggested that most had modest to severe prima donna complexs.
__________________

You nailed that one. Reed had to make him a special table to specifications, stool, clamping jig, and a few other items like rewiring the shop so the air compressor and the welder can run at the same time.  That part is done, now it's just getting it scheduled with his other work.


----------



## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

**

>oil will go where water wont 

We found that out with the first tank. It held water just fine, but when it was filled with parafin and heated up it started oozing out onto the elements.


----------



## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

*Pappa's gotta brand new tank!*

A friend and customer of mine is a professional welder at Case Equipment. I was having him do some welding for the range and asked if he could make me a dipping tank. I gave him the dimensions on Thursday and he delivered it today. Can you tell he is not an artist? What he is is a good fabricator and an excellent welder.

I had him make a tank 24h x 24w x 27l large enough for five medium boxes. The tank is made of 16 gauge steel, has two handles and a threaded drain fitting for a spigot. He also made a lid with a handle, I didn't need a handle on the lid, but I got one. Tank weighs a little over 50 lbs. Cost was $150.

Steve is willing to make more and to any size desired. He said that he could make and ship in about a weeks time.




Keith Benson said:


> MMmm, a large tippy vat of liquid pre-heated fuel. Gruesome.
> 
> Can you have a metal frame welded such that the turkey frier burner can be slipped underneath, while still offering protection agains tipping?
> 
> Keith


Interesting that he came up with that same idea after I explained Palmers tank with the stove compartment and legs. So it sounds like if you are looking for someone to custom make a tank for you Steve can do it at a reasonable price. He can do stainless too, but of course the price of materials would be higher.

I will post a notice in the for sale forum too.


----------



## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

Bullseye,

did you make a box within a box with a 2" void between the boxes for the wax and oil and wooden-ware?
that way it would require a LOT less oil and would heat up faster

Dave


----------



## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

*No, but we could*



drobbins said:


> Bullseye,
> 
> did you make a box within a box with a 2" void between the boxes for the wax and oil and wooden-ware?
> that way it would require a LOT less oil and would heat up faster
> ...


I decided against it for a number of reasons. When Steve said he could make the box for me I didn't want to get it too complicated, I just wanted a box to get what I had on hand dipped asap.

The idea of a box in a box was to have a double boiler for safety sake. The thought of using water like in any double boiler had the drawback of it splashing above 212 degrees into the wax and that would make the wax foam up and cause problems with spilling over. Making it closed would have made it a steam jacketed boiler and call for pressure relief and gauges.

Using oil caused another set of problems with contamination of the wax also, but the real kicker for me was the desire to have a drain and spigot to empty the tank when I am done so I could move it without heavy machinery. Trying to incorporate a drain through the double tank is doable, but it would take longer to make and it would have to be tested as the parafin will seep through pin holes that water will not.

In short, if you want one I am sure that Steve will make one for you, even with a drain, but I am sure that it would at least double the price if not more.


----------



## Dan Williamson (Apr 6, 2004)

You can see some photos of my dipping tank here.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/777710921/


----------



## jjallday (Jun 15, 2007)

*Stainless Steel Boiler*

Have been watching this thread with some interest. I have access to a stainless steel tank the size of a caged poly tank. The top has a small hatch to pump in liquids and the bottom has a 2" drain pipe and pallet holes. I had thought of cutting the top off and removing the drain on the bottom and welding a plate on it. The tank is very water tight (used to hold herbicides).

I had thought of using two propane burners to heat this. I can get the tank(s) for free so I thought I might try it. If there are any beekeepers in Northern Michigan interested in working on one to share let me know. Any thoughts?

Jason


----------



## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

*Re: Stainless Steel Boiler*

Present year = 2015. Any one have any lessons learned since 2007?


----------



## HillBilly2 (Jul 26, 2015)

*Re: Pappa's gotta brand new tank!*

Best tank-------A side saddle fuel tank from a semi. 1/2 inch thick aluminum...Find a semi wrecking yard. Look for a 150 gal with the end all mesed up, something when cut off the bad part will leave a hundred gallon capacity or so. They should sell it to you for price of salvage aluminum and let you keep the hangars. Might find another one a couple inches larger you can get the end for a lid to drop for a flame up. Just saying......


----------

