# Bad Reaction to Honey (Dizziness)



## burns375

So i've been selling honey for a while now. I had a gentleman at work talk to me today about a bottle I sold him. He said about 2-3 minutes after eating a spoonful he would feel very dizzi and lightheaded. He did this for 4-5 days and the reaction actually seemed to become worse. The side-effects lasted for 15-30 minutes up to an hr. He is about 52 years old and never had an issue with store bought honey. My honey is a mix of local spring honey, raw, filtered, unpasturized. I have never heard of this. I've read about rhododendron toxicity in Asia. 

Anyone ever have this happen to me? Do you think it is a reaction to bees or reaction to the nectar/pollen source. Do you know what cause/source?


----------



## mcon672

Possibly diabetic? Maybe it's just now presenting.


----------



## jwcarlson

Sounds like "pre"-diabetes symptoms.


----------



## burns375

jwcarlson said:


> Sounds like "pre"-diabetes symptoms.


ahhh so eats sugar and drinks sugary drinks.  Fruit drinks, sweets, cookies.


----------



## RobWok

Dizzy and Lightheaded sounds more like diabetic than allergic. I do know that some honeys seem to make my throat itch more than others.


----------



## Farmercal

burns375 said:


> He is about 52 years old and never had an issue with store bought honey.QUOTE]
> Are you guys saying that the store bought honey has less sugar than raw honey? How?


----------



## jwcarlson

I'd simply suggest that he talk to his doctor about the symptoms. Give him his money back and call it good. Getting dizzy and lightheaded after eating something sugary is a symptom of or an indication of diabetes or pre-diabetes.

Farmercal, not really. Just suggesting that perhaps this point in time is when he exhibits symptoms for whatever reason.


----------



## fraz6020

diabetes can start at anytime in someones life. You could eat sugar with no issue and then start having an issue later. I am a nurse and also new to keeping bee's. After eating sugar or carbs then having the symptoms you wrote. I would have my patient check their blood sugar level.


----------



## dsegrest

that must be marijuana honey. You should buy it back and sell it for more.


----------



## RobWok

The only other thing is that store bought honey may not be honey at all - it could be just corn syrup and coloring depending on where it came from. He may actually have allergies to some local plants.


----------



## MJuric

*Are you guys saying that the store bought honey has less sugar than raw honey? How? *

Not less sugar but certainly different glycemic index. Depending on the type of honey there is a significant range of glycemic indexes in honey ranging from significantly lower then table sugar to much higher. If this particular honey is a higher glycemic index then variety sold at the store then it would hit his blood stream faster, spike his sugars and if indeed he had T2D his insulin output could not match the spike causing the dizziness.


----------



## burns375

Thanks for your opinions guys. Ide like to steer clear of diabetes, this was my initial thought tpo.... and discuss other possibilities.

Any other thoughts.


----------



## waynesgarden

burns375 said:


> ...discuss other possibilities.
> 
> Any other thoughts.


Probably not a problem but I suppose it wouldn't hurt to rule out other causes that could be related to the honey itself, like possible fermentation? Did you check its moisture level? 

Wayne


----------



## Mr.Beeman

Did you crush and strain or use an extractor? 
I heard of one beekeeper that crushed and strained one batch of honey. He actually had a few dead bees that were crushed in the processing. That small batch of honey did have the same symptoms you spoke of when eaten. Turns out it was the venom from the dead bees in the honey that caused it.


----------



## mcon672

Wow beeman I never even thought about the bees in the comb when doing crush and strain. Burns, any update? Did anyone else have a reaction to the honey?


----------



## Oldtimer

Some honey can have a narcotic effect. I have experienced this once from a batch of honey that was mostly penny royal, although other penny royal did not have the effect so not sure what was the magic ingredient in that particular batch.


----------



## Cabin

burns375 said:


> So i've been selling honey for a while now. I had a gentleman at work talk to me today about a bottle I sold him. He said about 2-3 minutes after eating a spoonful he would feel very dizzi and lightheaded. He did this for 4-5 days and the reaction actually seemed to become worse. The side-effects lasted for 15-30 minutes up to an hr. He is about 52 years old and never had an issue with store bought honey. My honey is a mix of local spring honey, raw, filtered, unpasturized. I have never heard of this. I've read about rhododendron toxicity in Asia.
> 
> Anyone ever have this happen to me? Do you think it is a reaction to bees or reaction to the nectar/pollen source. Do you know what cause/source?


Do you have Mountain Laurel in your area???


----------



## marshmasterpat

dsegrest said:


> that must be marijuana honey. You should buy it back and sell it for more.


Now you have me wondering. Do those guys need to have their plants pollenated? LOL :lookout:


----------



## Thershey

Do you have a good bit of Laurel in your area? We had a honey specialist speak at a club meeting earlier this year, she said that Laurel honey was toxic. I had no idea that laurel produced nectar but my neighbor has a hedge of it a few hundred feet long and by golly it was buzzing hard for a couple weeks in June.


----------



## jcolon

Got any left?


----------



## Michael Bush

I would think it would take more than a spoonful to have a reaction from Rhododendron honey. There were selling it in little three ounce jars or so (just guessing based on size) in Turkey for 50₺ ($30 or so) when I was there. Apparently that was just enough to get the desired effect. But it's also possible people have different reactions. Since this is the only report you got, I would tend to think it's more likely he had an allergic reaction of some kind.


----------



## burns375

Thank you Michael. I am thinking somekind of toxicity from plant, he said he eats plenty of sugar. I and many others have ate plenty of this honey and no problems.. He has also consumed store bought honey without issues, that is whats strange. 

We have mountain laurel and other varities found in landscaping. We don't have many true rhodo's, those are mostly in the mountains in Appalachia, but i do see some in gardens. But azaelas (part of rhodo genus) are very popular her in Lousiville, kentucky, we are just enough south for them to do well and be hardy. I have them in my yard as do many folks. We have the old varieties from the 1940s and 1950s and new varities they are producing today (pink, white, red, purple, etc,) evergreen and decidoues. The bloom was especially long and strong this year.


----------



## Michael Bush

>I am thinking somekind of toxicity from plant...

But then other's should also have a reaction...


----------



## RobWok

could have had a reaction to something else completely unrelated. The timing was similar.


----------



## Michael Bush

I remember in "the making of" extra on some dvd where the director was talking about how they were shooting in NYC and they ran out of plug ins from their generator and they needed one more light for the shot. A local cop told the lighting guy to just plug it into the outlet there on the traffic light and right when he plugged it in NYC had a blackout. All the power went out for several hours. To this day the guy can't shake the feeling that he caused it...

Post hoc ergo propter hoc


----------



## Michael Bush

I remember in "the making of" extra on some dvd where the director was talking about how they were shooting in NYC and they ran out of plug ins from their generator and they needed one more light for the shot. A local cop told the lighting guy to just plug it into the outlet there on the traffic light and right when he plugged it in NYC had a blackout. All the power went out for several hours. To this day the guy can't shake the feeling that he caused it...

Post hoc ergo propter hoc


----------



## John Smith

Speaking of "other possibilities" is it possible that customer was simply being mischievous? 

I have had quite a number of strange remarks made about my honey, and mostly I have dismissed them all. "****roach" in your honey, John." Too Sweet! Too Sticky. Too expensive!!!! 

There are certainly people who dislike honey for whatever reason, bees too. There are certainly people who wish they had a sideline income, a hobby, something to be passionate about etc., and they delight is getting real people stirred up with their fantastic stories. For sure most beekeepers have a positive streak about them that more timid folk find irritating, so they try to bring us down any ole way we are willing to respond to.

This is an old thread, I realize, but reminds me of my hard lesson learned more recently: Don't focus on one complaint when a hundred people are delighted with your product. I fear this is why supermarket honey is so bland. One whinger complaining has more impact on the honey packer than a hundred successful sales. Hence they strive for continuity, middle of the road sameness and bland predictability, whereas I find many customer love variety, new tastes, dark honey, 'that good one you had last time!"

One complaint out of twenty happy customers is not worth taking much notice of.


----------



## Michael Palmer

Oldtimer said:


> Some honey can have a narcotic effect. I have experienced this once from a batch of honey that was mostly penny royal, although other penny royal did not have the effect so not sure what was the magic ingredient in that particular batch.


Hey OT, did you ever eat Tutu honey?


----------



## Oldtimer

Yes done that but tutu is not a narcotic, just makes you sick in a nasty way ie feel like crap, vomiting diarrea cramps etc. People who had bigger doses can have seizures so violent they break arms, then a higher dose than that is death.


----------



## BadBeeKeeper

burns375 said:


> Thank you Michael. I am thinking somekind of toxicity from plant, he said he eats plenty of sugar. I and many others have ate plenty of this honey and no problems.. He has also consumed store bought honey without issues, that is whats strange.
> 
> *We have mountain laurel* and other varities found in landscaping. We don't have many true rhodo's, those are mostly in the mountains in Appalachia, but i do see some in gardens. But azaelas (part of rhodo genus) are very popular her in Lousiville, kentucky, we are just enough south for them to do well and be hardy. I have them in my yard as do many folks. We have the old varieties from the 1940s and 1950s and new varities they are producing today (pink, white, red, purple, etc,) evergreen and decidoues. The bloom was especially long and strong this year.



Grayanotoxin poisoning most commonly results from the ingestion of grayanotoxin-contaminated honey, although it may result from the ingestion of the leaves, flowers, and nectar of rhododendrons. Not all rhododendrons produce grayanotoxins. Rhododendron ponticum grows extensively on the mountains of the eastern Black Sea area of Turkey. This species has been associated with honey poisoning since 401 BC. A number of toxin species are native to the United States. Of particular importance are the western azalea (Rhododendron occidentale) found from Oregon to southern California, the California rosebay (Rhododendron macrophyllum) found from British Columbia to central California, and Rhododendron albiflorum found from British Columbia to Oregon and in Colorado. In the eastern half of the United States grayanotoxin-contaminated honey may be derived from other members of the botanical family Ericaceae, to which rhododendrons belong. *Mountain laurel (Kalmia latifolia) and sheep laurel (Kalmia angustifolia) are probably the most important sources of the toxin.*

The grayanotoxins cause the intoxication. The specific grayanotoxins vary with the plant species. These compounds are diterpenes, polyhydroxylated cyclic hydrocarbons that do not contain nitrogen. Other names associated with the disease is rhododendron poisoning, mad honey intoxication or grayanotoxin poisoning.

The intoxication is rarely fatal and generally lasts for no more than 24 hours. Generally, the disease induces dizziness, weakness, excessive perspiration, nausea, and vomiting shortly after the toxic honey is ingested. Other symptoms that can occur are low blood pressure or shock, bradyarrhythima (slowness of the heart beat associated with an irregularity in the heart rhythm), sinus bradycardia (a slow sinus rhythm, with a heart rate less than 60), nodal rhythm (pertaining to a node, particularly the atrioventricular node), Wolff-Parkinson-White syndrome (anomalous atrioventricular excitation) and complete atrioventricular block.

In humans, *symptoms of poisoning occur after a dose-dependent latent period of a few minutes to two or more hours* and include salivation, vomiting, and both circumoral (around or near the mouth) and extremity paresthesia (abnormal sensations). Pronounced low blood pressure and sinus bradycardia develop. In severe intoxication, loss of coordination and progressive muscular weakness result. Extrasystoles (a premature contraction of the heart that is independent of the normal rhythm and arises in response to an impulse in some part of the heart other than the sinoatrial node; called also premature beat) and ventricular tachycardia (an abnormally rapid ventricular rhythm with aberrant ventricular excitation, usually in excess of 150 per minute) with both atrioventricular and intraventricular conduction disturbances also may occur. Convulsions are reported occasionally.

"Mad honey" has been used as an ancient version of chemical warfare, in 67 B.C. Roman soldiers invaded the Black Sea region under General Pompey’s command, and those loyal to the reigning King Mithridates secretly lined the Romans’ path with enticing chunks of mad honeycomb. The unwitting army ate these with gusto, as the story goes. Driven into an intoxicated stupor by the hallucinogenic honey, many of the flailing soldiers became easy prey, and were slain.


----------



## AngelaC

I have a similar reaction to honey: dizziness and lightheaded. It’s not because he’s pre-diabetic and it’s not because your honey is bad. He is probably allergic to honey pollen, and it is more prevalent in raw honey than in the store bought kind. I developed the allergy to honey pollen later on life. But I now try to stay away from anything that contains honey because I don’t know which type of honey was used in making the food.


----------



## Gray Goose

burns375 said:


> Thanks for your opinions guys. Ide like to steer clear of diabetes, this was my initial thought tpo.... and discuss other possibilities.
> 
> Any other thoughts.


other thoughts....

You should offer the guy get to his doctor.
steer clear sounds like avoiding the issue.
his symptoms are not normal, this is a time for you to step up.

OR did you have it checked and he is not pre diabetic?
So I am presuming but did you have a nice big serving of the same batch? get dizzy?

could be Poison could your bees have found something?

seems odd have ate my and other honey for 45 years never got dizzy

GG


----------

