# Wintering bees 2009 - 2010



## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

With the current weather that we are having in the USA I am curious about it's relation to winter colony losses.

I think that it was about three years ago we had heavy losses in the northern tier states because of an early winter and the beekeepes could not get into their yards and feed the bees.

Comments are welcomed.
Ernie


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Seems incredible to me. 3 years ago the area my bees were had the best flow in at least 35 years. Therwe was no need to feed them that year, nor was there much room for feed. They averaged 165 pounds per hive, including pallets and lids.

I think american beekeepers tend to feed much later than we do. I guess guys try to get to California then feed over there. I like to have everything up to weight no later than mid-october. Earlier is even better.

Open feeding is great in situations where you can't get to the yard. The bees can get to the feed, so no worry there. If the weather is cool or wet there is always some break in it and at that time of year bees can put away easily 15 pounds per day. 4-6 days of feeding and they are good. 

Personally I believe that bees starving overwinter is a reflection of porr mangement decisions.

Jean-Marc


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

jean-marc said:


> I think american beekeepers tend to feed much later than we do. I like to have everything up to weight no later than mid-october. Earlier is even better.
> 
> Jean-Marc


Last year at my house, we got 2 ft of snow on Oct 15, and the temp never went up again high enough that they would take feed, so If you were feeding or medicating last year you had better be done before then, makes coming up with a management style to fit the weather difficult when weather is the variable. I was all done on time but many of my friends got burnt. Now this year they say el nino is in affect. Is that good for the nothern beek or bad??
can I wait longer to pull my meager amount of honey then feed, or should I go earlier??? Makes life interesting now doesn't it. Now if I guess correctly I'm a good beekeeper, if I guess wrong I'm a bad beekeeper? history has proven some years I'm very good, other years i'm very bad, but I adjust as much as the inputs I have allow me.

mike


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

Now this year they say el nino is in affect. Is that good for the nothern beek or bad??
Here is some data for your locality:
http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/predictions/threats2/enso/elnino/ny_bar.html

Detailed map data:
http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/predictions/threats2/enso/elnino/jfmpstat/ny0.gif
Regards,
Ernie


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## JPK (May 24, 2008)

Here's a link to Jan-Mar 2010 outlook....take with a big grain of salt

http://www.cpc.noaa.gov/products/predictions/long_range/lead06/off06_temp.gif

Looks pretty normal to me for North America with the exception of the interior a SE.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

Looks pretty normal to me,

You might want to check out NOAA's reported sea surface temperature data.
The Pacific Ocean's temperature has risen 1.7 degrees C as of July 07. 2009
Look out if we get up to +3 degrees.
Thanks for the posting.
Ernie


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

from what I can gather from the maps we should have 87% of normal snow and should be warmer than normal, but since they haven't had any sun spots in a year or so we haven't had a summer. we have just had our first 4 days in a row without any rain, the temp has gotten up to a balmy 75 degrees. now I have to go find some maps that include mr nino and no sun spots to figure out how much honey to leave on the hives. Thanks for the maps, I think I'm going to buy a big truck and move south? wait a minuite I think mr nino will dry out the south!??? it was all alot easier with out the internet I think, I didn't know how much I didn't know...

mike


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## Bud Dingler (Feb 8, 2008)

there is little relationship between a northern summer temp and severity of the coming winter. 

after having a July almost colder then June, August has turned hot and wet in MN and Wisco and appears it will stay that way for most of the month according to the models. 

my belief is we're having July weather in August and we could end up with a warm fall into late Sept. 

since the crop so far is less then average, winter survival should be optimal. winters with big losses are almost always preceded by better then average crops.


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Mike seems to me you made the right call last year, finish feeding early no matter what.

I think the heavy losses on the big crop years are due to bees plugging out the brood nests, resulting in too few youngbees to overwinter successfully. I don't have a lot of experience in that area as we are in a poor honey rpoducing area. The only experience of a massive crop was in 2006 and I overwintered here, Fraser Valley. It's wet coastal weather here.

Jean-Marc


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

I think the heavy losses on the big crop years are due to bees plugging out the brood nests, resulting in too few youngbees to overwinter successfully. 
That's a very good point of information
Ernie


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

I think I'm going to buy a big truck and move south?
How far south would you think would be ideal?
Ernie


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## timgoodin (Mar 10, 2007)

I saw el nino mentioned somewhere and our local weather people are saying we are in that pattern again. All I know is it was the coolest July here in several years and it has rained almost everyother day since April. I have figs this year by the handsfull where we usually just have 9 or 10 (a novelty for West KY). I remember a few years ago the NWS said we were having an el nino and it stayed warm and wet all winter. But the next year after el nino there is La Niña and I remember it well. The worse drought in many many years. Trees died because of the dry weather. As far as wintering is concerned my hives are finally building some reserves. With all the rain they were not able to get out and forage. But with all the rain now the wildflowers and such are blooming and the hives are booming. I think we will be in good shape going into the fall at my apiary. I'm feeding some late nucs but everything else looks good. Just no early flow due to the rain. I like the idea of a southern home for them...I like the idea of a southern home for me just in case we get another of those 3" ice storms.

Tim


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

jean-marc said:


> I think the heavy losses on the big crop years are due to bees plugging out the brood nests, resulting in too few youngbees to overwinter successfully.
> 
> Jean-Marc


I agree, but interestingly enough, this has been a terrible year for honey flows, but going through hives this past week my honey supers that have been on since may are just now being caped, but because we normally top super here(which in my opinion needs a heavy flow to drive the bees up) the brood chambers in the apiaries that are having flows are really to heavy for this time of year. My best hives i was adding brood chambers underneath their exhisting two. The other thing that caught my attention was even though they weren't having a nectar flow, I have three deep hives that are light but totally full of pollen causing them to swarm late. My partner and I have been building feeders expecting to have to feed because of the lack of honey but now are not so sure.

as to how far south to move, I was thinking about going to canada, they bees have got to bee better aclimated to the ice age were having. besides they have alot better beer.inch:


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## 123456789 (May 24, 2009)

MMMM.....beer. Thankyou Prime Minister Molsons.


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

The big crop year and plugged out brood nest make sense....however I just got back from Wisconsin and checking my bees. Crop ranges from 4 boxes to none. Prospects for next 30 days look good.....finally got rain. A few colonies have plugged brood nest with four empty supers on them. finally four frames brood, the rest honey. Colonies that were in cranberries are VERY hungry and populations have gone south...some have gone back to a box or so of bees. My worst years for winter are like last year when we had a second 100 yr drought following the last one. Bees had little nextar/pollen and unless you fed in august and sept to get queenlaying you ended up witha small cluster of old bees which by spring were dead/starved(cluster to small to move) of very weak.


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