# bees in a block wall



## westtnbeekeeper

hoping this works... I have a friend who has bees in his basement wall and would like them removed. If the photo is able to be viewed I will attach more later. I have the option of waiting until spring which I plan to do. Hoping I can trap them out without much trouble but I have only seen videos of it. Hopefully more later... Have to head into work.

Tim
http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums...4_zpstfrp4mw4.jpg?1446055151902&1446055152611


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## westtnbeekeeper

Oops all the photos in photobucket popped up... Not a big deal but only the pics of the block wall are pertinent here.:scratch:


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## JRG13

There's a trick to making it show only the picture, maybe rader can chime in, but I'm sure when I post pics, my whole PB account is viewable, but not big deal.


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## fieldsofnaturalhoney

Another, I will just seal them in, based upon the foam? So he is obviously willing to keep the "rest" of the hive in the wall once you have trapped them out Wouldn't those center blocks have concrete in them? Eliminating the possibility that they are in the bricks? What's that plywood section next to the door about? I imagine that locating them within the structure will be interesting. Might want to start on that now


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## GaryG74

Search Cleo Hogan's trap out procedures/set up. I've used it for concrete block walls and it works well. A lot of times the blocks are not filled with mortar, depending on the "skill" of the person doing the wall installation. I wonder if a laser thermometer would be useful in finding the location and size of the cluster in the blocks. Good luck with them.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr

westtnbeekeeper... If you do not have my trapping guide for use in situations like this one, e-mail me at [email protected] and I will send to you. (Or anyone else) The guide explains the setup and has color photos of traps in progress.

Guide is free, and no salesman will call.

cchoganjr


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## westtnbeekeeper

My assumption on the plywood is that it was a remodeling job that the homeowner finished the basement and replaced a larger door with the double doors in the picture. And no the blocks are not filled. I understand that the hive has been quite extensive with sounds detected all the way to the back corner of the wall. Not sure if I believe this or not but the home owner tells me that the bees eventually chewed through the cinder blocks in the basement after attempts to seal them in failed. Apparently silicone rubber works better than expanding foam because he tells me no more bees have made it into his basement after he injected it into the small hole the bees made or found. I understand the bees have been there for 10+ years.


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## westtnbeekeeper

Mr. Hogan,

I attempted to e-mail you and for some reason I received a failure notice back. Not sure why. My e-mail address is [email protected]. If you could get that trap out guide to me I would greatly appreciate it.

tim


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## Harley Craig

Here ya go


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## Harley Craig

I bet he has a studwall on the inside of his basement and they are following the electrical into that opening between the studs. if so the easiest way to remove them would be from the inside just pull a piece of drywall.


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## westtnbeekeeper

Thank you for sorting that photo thing out for me... I haven't been inside but i am fairly certain there is no covering on the wall inside. One of the first things I will do is scrape some of the foam away and see just how large the hole in the wall is. From what I could see, if not for the conduit coming out of the meter I could almost put my hand in the hole behind the meter. Its huge. Pretty shotty construction if you ask me. The laser thermometer thing sounds interesting. I am thinking the winter cluster might make a warm spot on the wall. There must be pathways all in those blocks. Possibly blocks mortared on two sides leaving a beespace for bees to travel horizontally through the wall. I expect attaching a cone in this situation will be problematic given that bees are entering above and below the conduit. Probably use wads of aluminum foil to reduce them down to one entry when the time comes. What would be the best time of year to do this? I have read about trap outs that lasted months.:gh:


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## jadebees

Westtnbeekeeper, I agree with Hcraig. If you go inside, and there is drywall, paneling or anything besides block, the bees are probably in the cavity made by the studs. Its very common to frame inside so as to allow using common fiberglass insulation. The bees will carry the fiberglass away as they build. The good part is its way easier to get in there, and you should be able to hear them by putting ears to the wall. Cut outs are often easier from inside. Bag up a big piece of the room, lotsa plastic! If the wall is just block, there is a common method called column grout, meaning the blocks are poured (filled) solid every 8 feet, or so, and in corners. The cavity in that would be straght up & down, as much as the block holes overlap. Good luck!


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## westtnbeekeeper

Just text the owner... Nothing on the inside but blocks. Bees are in the cinder blocks.


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## jadebees

That's a tough one. You cant save them all. I would tell them its too bad. You could get bees like this: Charge them $125 to wirebrush the foam off. Purchase a bag of mortar mix, and trowel the hole up, Use the proceeds from this work to buy some swarm lure and boxes. Put those out next spring. I am being a bit sarcastic, but cutouts at this time of year have a dismal survival rate. You may get nothing from doing it. Not to mention the damage you'd do from breaking blocks to get comb out. If you can afford it, let the homeowner do the patching, and just buy swarmlures. Its not too easy to fill your beeyard doing cutouts.


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## westtnbeekeeper

Thanks for the reply jade... Tearing into the wall is not something I want to get into on this. The homeowner approached me about it in late September and I told him then that I didn't think it was a good time to attempt such a thing. Bees going semi dormant soon, population declining and all. I asked him if we could wait until spring and he said that was fine with him. I was thankful. Sure I could probably kill the bees and stop the hole up with something a little more substantial than expanding foam but that does nothing for me or the bees. The Hogan trap box looks to be the ticket. Mr Hogan e-mailed his trap guide to me last night and if I can force them down to one entry point my plan is to trap as many as I can and exterminate the rest. Or if I can get extremely lucky and the queen decides to move into my trap hive maybe the rest will follow and I allow the colony to rob out the old colony then seal it up. This is all a "pipe dream" I am sure but I have time to develop a plan and with hope in the end everything works out for every ones benefit.

I wonder now if it is possible to stack a standard deep on top the Hogan trap box and encourage the entire colony to move to the exterior of the wall. I should have some drawn comb in the spring from empty bottom boxes. There is one in particular that comes to mind that I was going to replace anyway. It was some frames in a catch box that the bees made a mess of and I was going to scrap them and let them start over. There is plenty of time to think this through and as I said before the bees have been there 10 years or more. 

I am open to any ideas that would make this work out better for all parties involved. I don't plan to charge any thing for this. At this point the experience is worth it to me, and I am mildly intrigued by the challenge of it all.:banana:


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## GaryG74

The trap outs I've done on concrete walls, I stuck wire screen into any holes then caulked them. I had two walls that bees chewed through the caulk the next year and got back into the walls (new swarms). After using screen then caulking the holes, the bees can't chew through. Spray foam can be chewed through by bees also so it's not good for keeping them out of the walls. It's amazing how scouts can sniff out an old hive in a wall or ceiling and find or make a way into the area.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr

Westtnbeekeeper... When trapping for elimination of a colony, I would rather move bees (on frames) when I get 4 or more frames of bees, then recombine them if you do not want multiple colonies from the trapout. I like this method better than adding boxes, and I believe it speeds up the elimination process. But, yes, you can use multiple boxes, no problem.

cchoganjr


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## westtnbeekeeper

Thank you Mr. Hogan...

And everyone else for that matter.

It will be a trap for elimination and I hope to gain as many bees as possible. 

Its good to be a member of beesource. There is no substitute for "hands on" "tried and true" experience.

I will probably get started building the trap box next week. I spent part of the day putting frames together and modifying my swarm catch boxes. I caught a swarm in one this spring but they made a giant mess of it. I left them too much open space. 

Thanks again...

Tim


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## westtnbeekeeper

Quick update...

I drove out Monday morning to make an attempt at limiting entry and exit to one area and channel the bees through some sort of tunnel before fitting the trap box to it and found no activity. I scraped away all of the excess foam and found only one hole in the wall about the size of my thumb but never saw the first bee. Temperatures had been near 70 degrees for the last two days and upper 50's at night so I assumed there was no reason for them not to be active.

As a last resort I grabbed a hammer from the truck and tapped the wall in several places hoping to get a rise out of them but saw nothing. The homeowner wanted no more bees in the wall so I considered it mission accomplished and covered the entrance hole with plywood and tap cons. 

I am kind of bummed out by this because I was looking forward to seeing this trap out perform as expected and gain some bees for the apiary but all is not lost. I suspect those bees probably died out quite often and were replaced by a new swarm in the spring. I'll be hanging a swarm trap in the edge of the woods around the middle of march and see what happens.:thumbsup:

Tim


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