# This poor hive



## brianbonner

You might remember the install from hell, well this turned into the summer of hell! Come 7/4 I had a ATV accident where I got crushed & while recouping I failed to think about my Bees ENOUGH. We got a drought in August that never ended. I was ****y because there is so much water on my property that I forgot FOOD! I forgot the drought meant no late nectar! Sigh it was october before I realized my error and started feeding the hive. i have a 42" hive that the bees only occupy 1/2 & the back comb is empty. I am thinking I do not have enough honey stores for our harsh winter. we have already had a cold snap where a bunch of bees died.

any thoughts?


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## WWW

It's late in the season and too cold for syrup feeding so your best bet is going to be placing dry sugar on top of the bars and insulate the outside and top of the hive, then hope for the best.


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## Sticky Biz Bee Co

It sounds like you have a top bar hive? If so reduce the area with the follower board or if it's a box hive take off the supers and reduce the area for them and feed feed feed make candy and put over the top bars.


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## cg3

Empty comb can be filled with syrup or HFCS


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## SeanStuart

Sticky Biz Bee Co said:


> make candy and put over the top bars.


Maybe a silly question, how exactly is this done?

Can anyone suggest a better book than the dummies book, which is good but limited. Thanks.


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## Colleen O.

Do a search for candy boards on here or check out www.honeybeesuite.com/how-to-make-protein-enriched-candy-boards

A guy posted just yesterday (Thread "Feeding pollen patties to top bar hives" on Bee Forum board) about how he makes a u-shaped basket out of chickenwire stapled to a top bar and slips his candy in that way. It sounded like an excellent way to put candy in a TBH.


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## brianbonner

My top bar did not come with a follower board, I made a hasty one in spring but it does not seal against the hive. I'm gonna make one outta 3" blue board. I have insulated the roof and I am going to wrap the hive in foam insulation(lying around) and plastic.

Thanks for the candy recipe! The one i have has had varying results none great.

I have fed dry sugar, they didn't eat as much sugar as they drink in syrup; candy going in today.

The entrance to the hive is filled with dead bees already, this looks bad. once this candy goes in, I will have to wait until spring; but i am not optimistic.

I worked so hard on this hive when it arrived and I doubt I can come up with enough money for new bees this spring. Well, live and learn, but I need to redesign the TBH if this hive dies & for any future hives. It was an experiment to see if bees could live up here at 7000ft on natural forage, I still don't know as the weather was extreme to start a hive this past year.:scratch:


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## Colleen O.

I have two follower boards that came with my purchased hive, one solid one with a hole. Both look to fit tight to the sides of the hive, but through my observation window I spotted a SHB larvae hiding from the bees between the side of the follower and the glass. When I needed to make a new follower that gave the bees feeder access instead of a hole I cut it to have beespace on the sides and bottom. The bees seem to be fine with it and it can no longer be a pest haven. I don't want to give SHB any extra places to hide from my bees.

I hope that candy works out for you. I found the link to that recipe on an old thread but haven't tried it yet. I got my bees to take enough bee tea that they should be fine until spring. If they make it through winter I will add some in the early spring to get them to brood up (because of the added protein).


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## brianbonner

Thanks that is helpful! Yes, I am leaving the protein powder out until spring feeding, they don't need more bees to feed.

What is SHB?


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## Colleen O.

No problem! SHB = Small Hive Beetle


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## whiskers

I have heard that bees will chew up styrofoam- but if you find one of those corrugated plastic election signs and us it to armor the bee side of your follower you should be fine.

While you are shivering in the Montana winter you can console yourself by saying- well at least small hive beetles will never come this far north.
Bill


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## brianbonner

Funny you mention that, my follower, not a tight fit, is made out of sign board. this year it will have to wait, but next year I M THINKING blue board sandwiched w/sign board for winter. For now I am putting some foam(lying around) in a garbage bag stuffed into the roof, plus the space age insulation already on the roof, then wrapping the hive in foam inside plastic and waiting until spring


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## Che Guebuddha

brianbonner said:


> My top bar did not come with a follower board, I made a hasty one in spring but it does not seal against the hive


You can seal that follower board by placing a hessian cloth or any other cloth over it so it overlaps the sides. I have the same problem and fixed it like this;
http://cheguebeeapiary.blogspot.se/2012/10/the-last-winterising-bits.html

Or in case you need a new divider you can make on out of hessian cloth and a top bar like shown in this round hive of mine;
http://cheguebeeapiary.blogspot.se/2012/11/drum-top-bar-hive.html


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## brianbonner

interesting, I wonder what that cloth is called in usa, i have never heard that name. I am gonna try that next year, I am leaving them alone right now.


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## brianbonner

The bees did not drink the syrup or eat the dry sugar. so took the syrup out, put candy patty under combs and they r on their own till spring. I guess they have more honey then I thought.


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## Colleen O.

Hope they make it!

I ended up making a candy "bar" ;D for one of my hives and then the candy in the hardware cloth pouch for the other. We have had a lot of over fifty degree days and I got scared they would go through their stores too fast. I slipped the candy in quickly Sunday while the temp was over 50. I checked on the bees in the hive with the observation window later and they were checking their new stores out. Both the bar mould and the pouch seemed to work well. The bar was fussier because I had to make the mould but it gave them a lot more candy. The pouch was quick and will be easier to refill and will work with patties as well. Both keep it off the bottom board and therefore allow for fewer pests to hide and multiply.


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## Che Guebuddha

I think that cloth is called Burlap in US


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## brianbonner

Take pics of the hardware cloth bar when u get a chance I will make one up for spring


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## Colleen O.

brianbonner said:


> Take pics of the hardware cloth bar when u get a chance I will make one up for spring


 Will Do. It might be a while, I'll have to wait for the first warm enough day that I am home or I will take pictures of the other bar and mould I have. I thought of it too late but I should have taken pictures when I made them or before I put them in the hives.


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## brianbonner

Well, that would be plenty before it is warm enough up here! I may be able to open the hive in may or june


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## Colleen O.

I can't believe it won't get warm enough for you to get in your hives until May or June!! Today the temp got into the mid 60s so I took advantage of the nice weather to take a quick look in my two hives and take some pictures of the candy bar and hardware cloth feeder bar for you. My hives have "honey" because I fed them in the fall but they have almost no pollen so as you can see I went ahead and put some protein in the candy I made for them after all. The clusters are fairly small so if they brood up a bit it might help them. They should have enough food based on what I've read they need.

The "candy bar". I used non-stick foil under and up the sides of the mold but not the top because I wanted it to adhere to the bar. The hardware cloth fits down in a slot I cut as a supporting armature and then I bent it over the top of the bar. I was going to screw it down but decided I didn't need to. I couldn't find anything better to cover the slot so I threw some painters tape on it as a temporary fix.


























The feeder bar with harware cloth pouch filled with "bee fudge". (I have the other half in the freezer.)














as a bonus I spotted the NWC queen. (And maybe some larvae in those cells? Like I said, I was trying to be quick so I didn't look too close.)








The Buckfast queen isn't marked and is smaller so I rarely pick her out but I also don't tend to move the main brood bar in that hive because it is still a bar from the chop and crop. It is the only one and I hope I can take it out in spring after the cluster has moved away from it.


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## brianbonner

Hehe well, I live in Montana Colleen, on top of that at 7000ft in the rockies. i have stayed in MO for a while so I know your climate, very different.

FYI NWC queens will stop raising brood and kick out the drones to shrink the colony for winter. I know it is mo but I am not sure it is a good idea to stimulate the queen yet.:scratch: PPL?


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## brianbonner

Thank you for all the Pics! I am too knew to know about the brood cells, I can't see anything. 

What recipe did u use for the "fudge"?


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## Colleen O.

brianbonner said:


> Hehe well, I live in Montana Colleen, on top of that at 7000ft in the rockies. i have stayed in MO for a while so I know your climate, very different.
> 
> FYI NWC queens will stop raising brood and kick out the drones to shrink the colony for winter. I know it is mo but I am not sure it is a good idea to stimulate the queen yet.:scratch: PPL?


I used to live in Michigan but usually by April the weather was breaking into spring. I'm guessing for you the elevation plays a role as well as the Jet Stream. Here usually we get the odd warm day or two in February and then late March it starts to warm a bit more reliably but the last frost date is in the third week of April. Then when July and August hit it is miserable hot and humid.

I thought the bees reduced the brood nest but some raised a few through the winter. I do realize my decision might have been a mistake, we'll see. (I went with my intuition but since this is my first year my bee intuition may be flawed.) I didn't put the bars in the middle of where they cluster, but where I anticipate the cluster will move to as they work through their honey bars over the winter. Unless it is a warm day they won't be able to get to the candy until February.

I was suprised to see some drones in my pictures, at least in the Buckfast hive. I expected them to be kicked out but it hasn't gotten dependably cold yet so that may be why they are still there.


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## Colleen O.

brianbonner said:


> Thank you for all the Pics! I am too knew to know about the brood cells, I can't see anything.
> 
> What recipe did u use for the "fudge"?


 I used the one from Megabee that is on that honeybeesuite link I posted on here before. I made the 4% candy but used all sugar instead of High Fructose Corn Syrup (HFCS) like Megabee says you can (here is the megabee candy recipe link). I will not make it like that next time, it was so thick with all that sugar and so little fluid. If I make it again I will make some 2:1 syrup up and use that for the HFCS. I also added 2T vinegar for the PH. I am hoping to leave enough stores on them in the future, this year was just a bad year for it with getting them so late, the drought, etc...

I called it "bee fudge" because I used to make 'Old Time Fudge" and it seemed VERY similar. Smelled pretty much the same until I added vinegar instead of cocoa . I almost had to make some just to be fair to my stomach. 

You are welcome for the pics, my pleasure.


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## brianbonner

Don't listen to me, that is why I asked for people to chime in. I am all theory no practical eexperience


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## Kelbor

I think they call that Burlap. get them from the local coffee shop (that roasts their own beans) for $.50.


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## beeman2009

Colleen O,

What is the consistency of the "bee fudge" and do you mind sharing the recipe? Also, great idea. I think this could be used on langs as well.

Thanks


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## Colleen O.

beeman2009 said:


> Colleen O,
> 
> What is the consistency of the "bee fudge" and do you mind sharing the recipe? Also, great idea. I think this could be used on langs as well.
> 
> Thanks


I linked the recipe from Megabee in post 25 of this thread but I found that from what honeybeesuite had on their site (link post 6 of this thread). I like the megabee one a bit better because it explains more. 

My deviations from their recipe : I added 2T cider vinegar and used all sugar instead of high fructose corn syrup (but as I state above next time I will use 2:1 syrup instead of the HFCS) I added 1lb pollen at the end and not the megabee powder (that was what I had). The pollen mixed in really well (I was surprised) but it was fresh frozen. The consistency was almost exactly that of old time fudge. It feels hard to the touch but soft/melts in your mouth (yes, I tried it...tastes better than a spoonful of pollen but not good like fudge). I let it cool withou stirring to 180 (from 265) before I stirred in the pollen. I poured it immediately into the molds, bar one first. (It was starting to thicken before I finished cleaning it all out if the pot so you want to fill the mold quickly so that it flows through the hardware cloth.)

The form idea came from Megabee's candy board form. (Not my original idea, just my spin on it.) The hardware cloth pouch idea was from someone else on the forum. I used both because I made only one form but knew I would have more candy than the form would take. I just poured what wouldn't fit in the form into a foiled pie tin and scored it in half after it had started to set up but was still warm (like you do with old time fudge). I put the other half from the pie tin in the freezer for spring use.

I had problems with SHB and have been working on how to feed but get it in the nest where the bees can "own" it. I hope this does it.

Oh, I also put spacers on both sides of the bars to give them beespace.


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## Colleen O.

We had a really warm few days with the temperature today in the mid sixties. I suspected my hives were light where the cluster was so I took a quick look at how they are doing with the feeder bars. In the Buckfast hive I moved the empty combs out of the way and put the feeder bar right next to where they are clustering. (The bees were all over the side of the feeder bar closest to the cluster.) In the NWC hive, the cluster had moved to adjacent the pouch feeder bar so other than moving some empty combs to the other side of the follower board I didn't need to do anything. It looks like they are clustering on the candy.


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## brianbonner

:applause:That is awesome! Thanks for sharing!


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## Colleen O.

I'm bumping this thread because a member might benefit from the candy recipe and how to feed it ideas.

I should note it didn't work out for my bees that I gave this candy to last year. The reason was only the bees on the bar next to the candy bar could use the candy when it was cold. They froze due to starvation in a late February cold snap.


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## Daniel Y

Since teh back comb is empty I woudl jsut remove soem of those bars. make a brick of sugar.

2 cups sugar 1.5 ounces of water mix together and put on a loaf pan. let it harden. then knock it out of the pan and place it in the empty space at the back of the hive. keep it a close to the bees as possible. Repeat as needed through the winter. I would start with a 5 lb block. 2 cups of sugar equals a lb. one of my small colonies with no stores went through 3 lbs in 2 weeks.


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## brianbonner

Colleen O. said:


> We had a really warm few days with the temperature today in the mid sixties. I suspected my hives were light where the cluster was so I took a quick look at how they are doing with the feeder bars. In the Buckfast hive I moved the empty combs out of the way and put the feeder bar right next to where they are clustering. (The bees were all over the side of the feeder bar closest to the cluster.) In the NWC hive, the cluster had moved to adjacent the pouch feeder bar so other than moving some empty combs to the other side of the follower board I didn't need to do anything. It looks like they are clustering on the candy.
> View attachment 3960


Update: My hive survived! it is triving actually, I used a candy recipe and pplaced the candy on wax paper, the candy about 12" x 3", and slid it under the combs as far as I could, they ate all the candy and most of the wax paper; i removed the remaining wax paper in june. It appears they have plenty of honey for this winter, btu we will see what the spring harvest yeilds!


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## Colleen O.

YAY!! I was afraid yours didn't make it when I didn't see you on the forum this year. I am really glad to hear yours made it. I think sliding the candy under the combs was the key difference between them surviving or not. Mine was on the bar adjacent and while they were eating it when the cold snap hit the ones a couple bars over wouldn't leave their brood to get the food and froze. Last year they hadn't drawn the comb all the way down so I could have fit some in. This year almost all the comb is fully drawn so there is only a bee space under them and it wouldn't fit.

Despite my loss it worked out though. I learned a lot and the comb gave the spring replacement package a huge head start and even with losing a swarm they built up enough that I am going into this winter with 5 nucs of bees. Even if half don't overwinter I'll be positioned to have the two hives I want to keep. Most of the nucs look good on honey stores, I just worry about pollen on some of them and the mite counts were high in two.

Let me know how your harvest goes in the spring.


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## brianbonner

Thank you! I am sad to hear about your bees, I thought the idea of the candy comb was a good one. I guess all we can do is learn from the bees & our mistakes.

Mites? arg have you tried dusting the bees with powdered sugar?

My hive looks good to survive this winter with 17 bars filled out, my hive is 42 inches long so they have a third of the hive to fill up. My next goal is to split the hive after they fill it all up. but that would be the following year for that experiment. I will need to build a new hive and this time it will have a window!


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## Colleen O.

Despite the poor results from last winter I decided to try the candy again but changed the recipe a bit to be more in line with that old-time fudge recipe. (I liked it better and the bees were right on it.) I fed a lot this year and should be okay but after some unseasonably warm weather that had the bees out flying. Seeing that I thought I should give them a way to reserve their honey stores now but didn't want to open feed and invite robbing. I put a block in all but the heaviest nuc today. 

As to the mites, I only tested to get a baseline and not because I was seeing mite related problems. We'll see how things go but if I lose the two with the high mite numbers this winter I will be right at the number of hives I want to maintain. Being able to lose a few is in this winter's plan.

I finished a new hive this summer which has a slightly bigger window in it (which I really like). I plan to make at least one more and another nuc this winter. (These will have a bit different design from what I have now.) A friend at work would like bees at his place but is nervous about beekeeping so if I come out of winter with three nucs I will take my older hive out to his place and put the new one out here.

Are you going to build your new hive and nuc this winter or next? I bet this spring your bees go gangbusters now that they are established. Do you know what type they are? Is it still your original queen?


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## brianbonner

Colleen O. said:


> I finished a new hive this summer which has a slightly bigger window in it (which I really like). I plan to make at least one more and another nuc this winter. (These will have a bit different design from what I have now.) A friend at work would like bees at his place but is nervous about beekeeping so if I come out of winter with three nucs I will take my older hive out to his place and put the new one out here.
> 
> Are you going to build your new hive and nuc this winter or next? I bet this spring your bees go gangbusters now that they are established. Do you know what type they are? Is it still your original queen?


 Men make plans and God laughs! I will try to do it this summer, as I don't have a heated shop in winter, that fails, fall, that fails winter etc! there is so much to do and so little health.

It is nice you are giving a hive to your friend, I may have to convince my buddy to start a hive

I have new world carnolians with the original queen. They fly in the wind, in the rain, and at temps below 50 degs! They really amaze me. :applause:


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## Colleen O.

brianbonner said:


> Men make plans and God laughs! I will try to do it this summer, as I don't have a heated shop in winter, that fails, fall, that fails winter etc! there is so much to do and so little health.
> 
> It is nice you are giving a hive to your friend, I may have to convince my buddy to start a hive
> 
> I have new world carnolians with the original queen. They fly in the wind, in the rain, and at temps below 50 degs! They really amaze me. :applause:


Too true, but I keep trying to make plans anyway. Guess I'm just dense that way. You mention health, are you not well? Hope you are okay.

I think my friend will like it after he gets exposed to keeping bees. It falls in nicely with his orchard and planting plans for his property.

NWCs, nice! One of my two hives last year had NWC bees and they sure did fly earlier, later, and in colder temperatures than the bees in the other hive. They also used propolis to reduce their entrance. If what I have doesn't work out I would definitely try them again. They would have turned that hive around if I had gotten the queen earlier and fed earlier.


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## brianbonner

I suffer from ankalosing spondylitis fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue which gets in the way. Right now my focus has shifted to cutting wood! The Bees are on their own this winter with any luck we will both survive!


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