# bleach + foulbrood = ?



## the kid (Nov 26, 2006)

would like to get some opion on used hives Im thinking of buying just thinking at this point the guy said he got out of bees 15 - 18 years ago because his wife got a allergy to the girls ... he put some traping goods for sale in a paper , when talking to him about the traps ,,, bees came up how would trap talk turn to bees ??? 
now back to why Im here..
will bleach kill foulbrood ?
At some point I seem to remember hearing that if you buy used hives to put it in bleach water over night >> 
In the 10 months that I have been reading posts at the 5 bee sites that I go to I have learned alot ... I THANK ALL OF YOU for the interesting posts ...


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

{will bleach kill foulbrood ?}

That post made it sound like bleach is an easy answer. It's not. Used Plastic equipment completely devoid of wax and propolis can be made AFB free using a 5% hypochlorite solution (must have water otherwise surface tension of bleach will actully surround spores and not kill them). Submersion required to penetrate and kill spores = 20 minutes per piece. Bleach on wooden equipment etc. is not shown to be effective.

Wooden equipment dipped in hot Parfin (325F I think and confirm this 1st. before trying) will also render equipment safe.

Everything else is a big gamble with your hard work and finanial investment.

[ December 30, 2006, 11:04 AM: Message edited by: Joel ]


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

What about scorching with a torch? I have heard that used woodware could be scorched and repainted to kill foulbrood?


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

You can, it works on boxes, lids and bottom boards if done right. You should use a propane torch with a wide end. There are other methods involving Kerosene which I won't post due the potential inherrent dangers. You main concerns with use equipment is comb, frames and bottom boards. There is not much evidence AFB is spread throught used hive bodies.

Some boil in Lye, I have, I consider it a realtively risky business to be working with Lye unless you are properly protected.

These method fall under the risk category.


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## the kid (Nov 26, 2006)

this is why I like to have some one else to run all this past , to get there years of knowledge. I didnt think bleach would work .. It did sound to easy ... like I say in the post I have learned alot and have just touched the sufice .. would hate to invest and have to burn it all , I dont thnk I will get the used ..

thanks for taking your time 

learned somthing before noon today good start.
the kid 
tommy


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

That's why all of us come here! We all learn something on virtually every visit.


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## fat/beeman (Aug 23, 2002)

my personal opion is if you got AFB or think you do its far cheaper in long run to burn hives. I have seen 1 hive brought in a yard to save it and ended up with the state inspector burning lot of hives in the end.=penny wise dollar foolish=


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## the kid (Nov 26, 2006)

If his price is right maybe Ill try scorching the boxes and repainting .the frames Ill burn.. just have to see what all he has. 
thanks again for the time
the kid


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## Jeffzhear (Dec 2, 2006)

Joel, why do you think a bottom board is more risky then a hive body? Maybe the cracks? But hive bodies have cracks too... 

If I blast the bottom board with a propane torch, (the type from Northern - It's like a flame thrower) and char it good. Then I high pressure washed it, which removes the char...wouldn't that reduce the risk significantly. I wasn't going to paint the inside of the bottom boards, or should I?

I had one case of foulbrood last year in one of my bee yards and I think I am just a tad paranoid now. I decided to burn that hive completely. Now as a precautionary step, I have torched all my hive bodies, (Kerosene) first, then used my propane torch for the edges, etc... 

I did find out that a neighbor beekeeper (1.5 miles away) had three hives out of six with AFB. One hive was completely dead and was being robbed. I suspect my bees ended up robbing from that hive. 

I won't do any splits (read that advice in an old publication from Penn S. U, Dr. Anderson (I think). He recommended not splitting hives for a year after AFB has been eradicated. 

Thoughts... I think I am going to check my neighbors bees for AFB in the spring...I know he won't and he'll let me. Which is why I asked the question, in an earlier post...how to I clean my hands from contamination from one hive to the next? Can I use a clorox solution on my hands?


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

{Joel, why do you think a bottom board is more risky then a hive body? Maybe the cracks? But hive bodies have cracks too...}

Many of the Dead AFB spore ridden AFB dead bees from infected hives get dragged accross the bottom board as well as all the spore infected pollen, and other waste from cells. As a rule studies show that most contamination comes from infected combs. All the trash from infected combs end up on the bottom board.

On hive bodies, inner covers and lids my only concern would be the areas which have either comb where infected honey may have been stored or propolis which may be infected due to the excretions added by the bees.

On the issue of Foulbrood, the inspector for our area found and burned in the area of 400 foulbrood hives this season. The average apiary in NY experiances around 4% - 5% AFB. I beleive he inspected less than 1/2 the hives in his assigned zone.

Inspectors do not wear gloves and I think they use an alcohol wash between infected hives. We have couple here (Bjorn & Sqkcrk) who may know the answer to that question better.


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## Jeffzhear (Dec 2, 2006)

Joel, Thanks for the information. I have just been paranoid, and so, I scorched all unused equipment as a precautionary measure. I hated that experience of watching my hive burn to the ground and want to minimize that big time in the future. 

I've also isolated that yard from my other yards, and will leave all spare boxes and equipment there and not mix in with for at least a year, provided no AFB. 

My concern has been that a fair amount of my equipment is used and has come from multiple sources over the years, mostly after varroa destructor showed up and without my knowledge of whether AFB was a cause of the hives demise, or not.

So, with that said, and after reading that great site from New Zealand in conjunction with the posts on this forum, I wonder if I should just burn up the old bottom boards in inventory(less then 10) and replace with new. I did scorch the helloutta them.

Thanks to all that have posted on this topic, I for one have learned much. If anything, since getting my first and only case of AFB this past year, I have changed my practices for the better.

Happy New Year's folks (tonight) and drive safe.


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## dickm (May 19, 2002)

>>>>>Used Plastic equipment completely devoid of wax and propolis can be made AFB free using a 5% hypochlorite solution (must have water otherwise surface tension of bleach will actully surround spores and not kill them). Submersion required to penetrate and kill spores = 20 minutes per piece.<<<<

I didn't know this. Can you give me a source for this information.

dickm


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

Extensive study done in New Zealand on AFB by Cliff Van Eaton & Mark Goodwin. "Elimination of American Foulbrood Without the use of Drugs, A Practical Manual for Beekeepers" Much of the information can be located free on the very exceptional New Zealand web site. Check the right sidebar although everything here is worth a look.

http://garnerpark.com/beekeeping.co.nz/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=1690 

Every beekeeper should read this study/Report.

[ January 01, 2007, 12:28 PM: Message edited by: Joel ]


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## Bob Russell (Sep 9, 2003)

>http://garnerpark.com/beekeeping.co.nz/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=1690 

>Every beekeeper should read this study/Report.

Excellent Posting Joel

When readers go to the web site be sure to read all the bulleted sections under AFB Control.

0.5% Sodium Hypochlorite is the correct concentration as published in "Elimination of American Foulbrood without the Use of Drugs"
page 45 8.7.2 Sodium Hypochlorite.

Beekeepers in New Zealand can only use Sodium Hypochlorite as a steralization agent if they are an approved beekeeper by passing their competancy test.Otherwise all AFB infected equiptment must be burnt.

A revised addition of the Booklet is about to be reprinted.

As a warranted inspector for exotic bee diseases and a training provider in the "Elimination of American Foulbrood with out the Use of Drugs" here in New Zealand I recommend the reading of the above site.


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## Bowfinger (Apr 17, 2015)

Using household bleach of 8.25 strength, a .5 % solution is a 1 cup to each gallon of water.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

I scorched a fair number of boxes and burned the combs and frames. It seems to have worked fine.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

fat/beeman said:


> my personal opion is if you got AFB or think you do its far cheaper in long run to burn hives. I have seen 1 hive brought in a yard to save it and ended up with the state inspector burning lot of hives in the end.=penny wise dollar foolish=


Fat Beeman sums it up.

As an inspector I've helped pick up the pieces with a few people after they "saved" a bit of old gear by using bleach, scorching, or whatever. End up costing them heaps and they wished they cut their losses when they could have.


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## rolftonbees (Jul 10, 2014)

If I thought that this stuff had been exposed to AFB, I would pass on it at any cost. THis is a risk to anyone with bees in many miles. 

If I thought I could not trust this owner to tell me the truth, I would not buy the stuff.

If I thought I could trust, and he denied AFB, I would buy cheap, then take reasonable precautions.


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

Ask state bee inspector for their opinion. 
They'd know when and where the most frequent outbreaks happened and possibly have a history of them. 
Could cross-reference and see what sort of risk there is.

Have bought many used boxes but never tops, bottoms, foundation, or frames. 
I bleach them with 7:1 solution of water to bleach. 
They are easy enough to scorch with a torch which would kill any afb spores.


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## costigaj (Oct 28, 2015)

I know some state associations have an irradiation program. Send it through the cobalt machine and everything dies.


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## DPBsbees (Apr 14, 2011)

costigaj said:


> I know some state associations have an irradiation program. Send it through the cobalt machine and everything dies.


That's what our club does. AFB is no match for gamma irradiation.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

I personally would pass on any used equipment. I find it too cheap to make new boxes. 

Almost all of the AFB cases here came from used equipment someone bought or given free and reused the comb. A few come from infected packed bees and some from the local area. IMO you are more likely to get it one of those ways than sanitized boxed. 

Would have no problem using boxes that I scorched and sanitized with bleach. 

Gamma irradiation is good too, If I have the option at a reasonable price I would use it.


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## Groundhwg (Jan 28, 2016)

Oldtimer said:


> Fat Beeman sums it up.
> 
> As an inspector I've helped pick up the pieces with a few people after they "saved" a bit of old gear by using bleach, scorching, or whatever. End up costing them heaps and they wished they cut their losses when they could have.


Got agreed the possible savings is not worth the risk. If I had any idea the items had been exposed to AFB I would not even take it for free. It is risking your hives and other within miles.


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

I would take them for free but they would be put in a pile and burned.If you find some somewhere I would do my best to eliminate it so it doesnt spread.


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