# 4KC--My little jar cell experiment!



## jbraun (Nov 13, 2013)

Beepro, what's your objective with the jar? Are you trying to hatch out the queen in an enclosure to remove her later?


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## liljake83 (Jul 2, 2013)

Why?


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## gezellig (Jun 11, 2014)

Just wondering what the purpose is? My thought is it wasn't a good thing to invert the queen cell in the opposite vertical position. But still wonder what the outcome you're wanting is?


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

Beepro posted that he had 600+ of these little jars, being thrown away regularly, trying to think up uses for them. I suggested queen cell hatching jars for an incubator, something that the Glenns used to use for their Instrumental Insemination program for their queen business. 

I thought they might be too small, but it looks like it's working!  Way to go, Beepro! Please report back how it's working...Thank you!


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

Keep working on this idea. Innovation is exciting to watch and keep in mind we don't always discover what we set out to find but can get led to a way better place with one little mistake. Some of the most exciting innovations mankind has ever done...were mistakes. Keep up the good work!


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

I like your trailer line, aunt betty. "Internet credibility is an oxymoron" reminds me of "I'm from the government, and I'm here to help", which is not exactly an oxymoron, until one calculates the end result.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

An update:

I continue to cut more developing cell to put inside more jars today.
With some modification on the lid, it seems like this is going to be a successful cell inside a jar project after all.
I made the holes a bit bigger for the workers to tend to the cell better but small enough that the virgin queen
cannot get out. That would be a disaster if she somehow got inside the other developing cells too.
Because the gap between the frame is too wide they are building the small comb 
attaching to the outside lid of the jar. Right now I just put the jars between the 2 frames. 
How can I eliminate this burr comb issue? 
Somehow I need to reposition the jar so that they cannot build the small comb underneath the cap. 
And at the same time allow the bees to get inside the jar to tend to the cells also. 
The jar is also good for a temporarily holding place to bring the mated queen inside to mark her. The jar fits
right into the home-made medicine marking tube.
I can imagine putting the grafted developing larvae inside these jars for the nurse bees to tend to them.
Now I don't have to worry of when the virgin hatch or whether or not she is going to kill my other developing cells.

Hatched cell pic!
Cell inside the jar and as a temp holding place for a mated queen:


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

I've heard that bees don't want to touch duct tape. 
Could you devise a way to put a small circle of tape in the center of the lid and drill the holes around it's perimeter?
Tinker around with that and maybe it'll work more better. lol
Might cure the burr comb issue.


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

I'm going to share something here. Seems like a good place for it and it's an innovation. Everyone knows what a bee vac is and this is a cordless one for kids.

A friend of mine (mentor) took me along on cutouts. He has this gun toy thing that sucks up a bug for viewing. It's a toy and not really meant for bees but OMG it's a queen sucker upper tool. 
Just take a look and look closely.
http://www.farmandfleet.com/products/882182-nature-bound-bug-vacuum.html

Look at how the toy comes apart. The cage comes off and has a gate that is a magnifying lens. Those little jars beepro uses...are nearly the same diameter so you could catch a queen and jar her without even touching her at all. 
I made a toilet paper tube queen marking "apparatus" that fits the toy as well. 
Used tape and some mesh from a wedding veil type thing.
Built a little plunger that fits the tube. By the time I got my queen marking kit delivered I had built one that is far superior.
With that "toy" I can catch a queen and mark her without touching her at all then release her right back onto the frame she came off of in just two or three minutes. WAY too ez.

They are $21 at walmart.


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## tanksbees (Jun 16, 2014)

Check out the matching critter barn, you could be vacuuming up package bees in no time!

http://www.farmandfleet.com/products/882184-nature-bound-critter-barn.html


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

Get some kind of drill or hole saw just a bit larger than the jars' diameter and make up a queen bank frame. The holes are all in the lid, right? seems like it should work.


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

tanksbees said:


> Check out the matching critter barn, you could be vacuuming up package bees in no time!
> 
> http://www.farmandfleet.com/products/882184-nature-bound-critter-barn.html


Funny but I don't think it would work.
The bug vac will accurately get a queen and if you want some attendants you can pick out nurses if you want.
This is supposed to be about them little jars tho. They kind of fit the bug gun thing.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

KC has the right idea. The purpose is to allow the bees to go inside the jar to incubate the developing cell. 
With the duct tape on the lid they would not
touch it if that is the case. I'll have to find the right 1" hole saw at the local hardware store for the
bank frame. Imagine lining rows of these reusable jars on a bank frame. With this idea, now I am
thinking to line up 2 small parallel bars along the frame inside and 2 more as the rail guards along the sides so that
the jars will not fall off the frame. The 2 small parallel bars along the frame will have a gap for the bees to go
inside the holes on the lid. Maybe a wax foundation strip for the bees to build out their comb too.
I have many times just picked up the queen by its wings with my fingers while she was on the frame. Also have many practice session
with a small plastic tweezers on catching the nurse bees to pick off the varroa mites. So far it is not an issue to
catch the queen. 


Lid pic and queen inside:


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## marshmasterpat (Jun 26, 2013)

So she did hatch out ok it seems. Just wanted to verify.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Here are the evidence, folks!

Another virgin queen just hatched yesterday inside the little jar. As you can see this queen was very well fed with a quarter
inch of RJ still remaining inside the cell cup. Unlike the other cup pic, this one has an even tip cut out by the virgin when she hatched.
The bees fused the nearest side of the cell onto the glass wall to further reinforced it inside the jar.
Clumsy me dropped this jar 2 time onto the bottom of the hive during her development. It is amazing that she still hatched. 
The bees were cleaning the remaining dried up RJ inside the cell when I took the glass jar out of the hive. Nothing is wasted from these resourceful bees--Cordovan muttX carnis. Immediately made up a 5 frame nuc for this new queen. If all goes well within 7 days I should have a new laying queen. 
All the other 2 nucs with a new laying queen had the same jar and lid when the queen hatched. The only drawback this time was that the holes on the lid are too big. 
The virgin got out and walk on the frame with the other bees. I wonder what is the right drill bit size to use so that the virgin cannot crawl out while allowing the workers to go inside the jar?

So it is possible to have a frame or 2 of these jars inside the hive to bank the cells and ultimately the virgin queens too. Now that I had dropped the jar twice, it is possible too to ship
the queen cells to an out of state apiary. The jar got dropped 2.5 feet without getting shattered only the plastic lid got cracked a bit. These are the thick wall type jars.
What more can I say when an experiment worked out so well in the end? I wonder how valuable these reusable little jars are now? Is the cell inside the jar reusable for another graft larva also? It is interesting to see if it is possible for another round of larvae. But first let let bees clean out the cell first.
Thanks to KC for all the hints and tips!


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

Beepro - Sorry to have wandered away from this discussion so long - too many fires to put out. And a big congratulations, BTW, You've really succeeded here!

As far as hole size, get a drill set with all the sizes - fraction, letter drills, number drills, and metric if your can, and see which one almost fits tight between the wires of a new queen excluder. That's the size!

I have heard "Don't go above 24" queens in a queen bank, but during the peak of the season, a strong colony can handle more than that for a short while. That's what you want - a queen that is banked for a week or less, then put into a nuc' for increase. You've probably read Dr. Susan Cobey's article on the Cloake Board System Queen Rearing and Queen Banking. If not, download that from her website, print it and laminate it. wwwhoneybeeinsemination.com it's under "Publications - general", under which there are 3 articles, its the 3rd one listed, and has "Part II" in the title.

The Glenns used to use jars for hatching purposes and up to Instrumental Insemination only, as I understood them to mean, but I could very well be mistaken. I did not see large lids with holes in them. They were for the incubators. You could design an incubator system around the jars and holders, or adjust numbers in the racks to fit a mini refrigerator, or whatever existing system was available. The "sticky" discussion at the top of the Queen Rearing a d Breeding section that Oldtimer started, Talk About Your Incubator" has some great info about temp controllers and related technology in it.

Even a screened lid (I'd use #8 hardware cloth - they can feed her through that) makes your jars very versatile - and a queen bank is a good thing to keep. Once you have a certain size apairy, it's a real boon to run a QB colony full-time and "ALWAYS" have a mated queen ready to go. The Cloake board makes banking a snap, and allows them to be restored to queenright by removing the "cut-off" board, no back-breaking lifting to do.

So, soon you'll have a cool system here - a jar that the bees can even build the queen cell in, you add a vented lid and place it into a rack that fits nicely in an incubator where she hatches safe from other queens (freeing up space in your Finisher colony and improving cycle time :thumbsup, the rack doubles as a queen bank frame. All you gotta do is push in the Cloake Board a couple hours before, and transfer them - done deal. Excess, reject, and dead queens are useable for steelhead bait, and - woo hoo - they're already in bait jars. Add a label and sell _dead_ queens for bait! Pretty groovy, man! 

I hoping to head up that way, near your area, some time before Winter. I'll PM you and try to meet up, if you are interested. I'd like to see this.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Thanks, KC. Now you make me thinking. Selling queen cell in a jar. com. Pure Cordovan too.
Quick overnight shipping with attendants, 2 dollars extra please. In the mean time the jar supply is building up fast. 
The ice chest is almost full and growing everyday. Should have thousands of them by the end of the year.
Got jar cells?


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

$$  $$ 

The Cleveland Indians are going to have to change their hat logo to your face because *YOU* will be smiling bigger than "Chief Wahoo", their Native American caricature, with all those megabucks swarming around your pocketbook.


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