# 15 hives - sryup feeding woes



## BeeDakota (Oct 9, 2016)

shinbone said:


> I think the number of hives is important when considering this particular beekeeping issue. I have about 15 hives. Feeding them syrup, especially 2:1, is a lot of work with many inefficient bottlenecks in the workflows. If I had fewer hives, I could use about any syrup feeding method a


I'm feeding 11 hives and I don't feel 2:1 is much work at all. 

What was the question?


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

I don't find that level inefficient at all. 

Take 3 five gallon buckets. Fill each roughly 1/2 full of warm water. Fill the rest with sugar. Put a paint can mixer on a drill and stir the mixture. Pour into 15 one gallon paint cans with holes punched in the lids, and invert them on the hives. Done.

I have 13 colonies in my home yard. I come home from work around 5:30 or 6:00 pm, spend 15 min (max) mixing up and pouring syrup, 5 min (max) putting it on the hives and you're done. Grab dinner with the family and call it a day.


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## frustrateddrone (Jan 31, 2015)

Why do you need to feed is the question I pose to everyone. Most likely you are the cause for that. Am I correct? You split a hive, you have created the need, so your complaining because..........


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## Farmercal (May 19, 2015)

I have four hives but I only need to feed one. I use a frame feeder for this hive. I premix the syrup, open the hive, pour it in, close the hive. Not that time consuming.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

frustrateddrone said:


> Why do you need to feed is the question I pose to everyone. Most likely you are the cause for that. Am I correct? You split a hive, you have created the need, so your complaining because..........


No, you're not correct. I feed because the bees were short of winter stores due to a very dry season in my area.

Also, you are severely and unnecessarily limiting your range of hive and apiary management options if you choose to never feed.

And, regardless of why I need to feed, I still want the process to be as efficient as possible.




.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

Specialkayme said:


> Pour into 15 one gallon paint cans with holes punched in the lids, and invert them on the hives.


Maybe the extra care required by using relatively fragile glass containers is part of my problem. Glass coated with slippery thick syrup is hard to handle, too. A metal can with a loop handle would be helpful.



.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

frustrateddrone said:


> Why do you need to feed is the question I pose to everyone. Most likely you are the cause for that. Am I correct? You split a hive, you have created the need, so your complaining because..........


I find it hard to believe you'd say this. 
When talking to those who have had bees for a while you must get an ear full!


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

Are the hives still on the roof?


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

clyderoad said:


> Are the hives still on the roof?


Yes! Good memory. The stairs to the roof magnify my problems, but I know that is unique to my situation.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

I use hive top feeders. They are plastic and if properly prepared don’t drown bees. They hold about 1.5 gallons if the hive is relatively level.
I mix my syrup in my 25 gallon bottling tank. It has a water jacket and heater. I put in about 9 gallons of water…heat to 170 and stir in 150lbs of sugar for a heavy syrup. It makes about 21 to 22 gallons of finished syrup. I use 1 gallon plastic containers to move the syrup to the hives. One could easily use 5 gallon plastic pails….but I don’t like having to lift them when full. If you don’t have a bottling tank….you will need one eventually.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

You go up yes, but I have a few yards (12-15 hives/yard) where I have to walk over to the hives from my truck carrying 5 gal buckets full of syrup, 2 at a time. It's a whole lot easier to just 'pull right up to em'.
I use mostly top feeders (2gal capacity) or 3 frame feeders (1 1/2 gal capacity) in a empty deep on top. 
In the out yards I mix 5:3 in buckets using cold water from the hose. No hot water out there. Feeders are in place on the light ones before I walk over the syrup, Pour it in, fill them up, close them up and off to the next stop. Repeat. About 25 are light this fall of 120.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

frustrateddrone said:


> Why do you need to feed is the question I pose to everyone. Most likely you are the cause for that. Am I correct?


I started about 100 new hives this year. Most didn't put up enough honey for the winter. I didn't harvest any. My fault? Maybe. 
It isn't uncommon for some hives to swarm...some multiple times...and he original hive misses the honey flow. My fault? Probably.
I'm feeding a hundred hives this fall. Another 150 that don't need it. 
I ain't perfect.
How many hives are you running to be so judgmental?


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## Greeny (Jun 27, 2016)

I have two hives (and had to feed them some), and the internal hive tops work well. However, the inverted paint can seems to be easier to manage, transporting the syrup to the hive, no drowned bees, off-site filling, etc. If I ever get to the point of managing 15 or so hives, I will look hard at paint cans inside the hive instead of the hive top feeders.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

beemandan said:


> I use hive top feeders. They are plastic and if properly prepared don’t drown bees. . . . .
> If you don’t have a bottling tank….you will need one eventually.


What brand of top feeder do you use? I've tried two different brands of wooden feeders each resulting in huge numbers of dead bees.

Interesting suggestion on using a heated bottling tank to prepare syrup. Hmmm . . . .


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## Randyw (May 18, 2012)

I am using the hive top feeders from MannLake, I found by putting window screen over the inner cover I get very few or no dead bees in the feeder. Someone on beesource suggested this, works for me.


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## msl (Sep 6, 2016)

Its amazing the difrenence a few miles and gentnicks makes, the only thing I am feeding is my nucs, My hive in an out yard 6 miles away on the outer side of chatfeild produced dubble my littleton yard, they also were genital and needed treatment...lol
I didn't take much from my production hives this year maby 8-10 pounds advarge and I should have some left to take come spring. not "bad" for a dry year using topbars that overwintered as nucs and had to draw a lot of comb. 
I am feeding 25 or so nucs at the moment, and work crushed me sept/oct (I build and run haunted houses for the local theme park 20-30 hr OT was the rule not the execption for sept) and I got behind so I am pushing feed like a mad man right now
I mostly feed 1.5-1 (may switch to 2-1 now that its getting cold and heating it will let them get at it longer) as I can mix it with hot tap water and a drill mixer.
drop six 4# bags or a 25# bag in a 5gal bucket add 2gal hot tap and mix with a drill, easy pezy. 

I have a Hodge poge of (mt nucs are mostly langs) frame feeders, division board feeders, foam top feeders, and 1/2 gal jars with a 1/4" hose on the end. 
my favorite is the hive top feeders, while I don't use it to its max by any means it can hold 3 gal, just bring over the bucket and dump in no fuss 
the posabul down side is I am seeing them slow takeing suryp form it, my guess is the insulation is keeping it from warming up with solar gain/bee heat...
so that would be a plus for in hive frame feeders.
next on my list would be the jars with tube, small hole in the cover and stick in the hose, dlivers ther suryp fast, they are spagity sause jars and happen to fit perfictily inside the cinder bricks I use to hold my covers down


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## datsdajoke (Aug 17, 2012)

I've found the fastest are pail feeders. 3gal plastic pails (basically a short 5gal pail) that have a hole covered with very fine metal mesh. Easy to feed 30lbs to a hive with only one trip. Flip over on top of the inner cover and cover with a deep and the telescoping lid.
For mixing I have a heavy duty D handle drill with a mortar mixing attachment. Sugar in a 5 gal pail about 4" from the top, then add very hot water and mix. The final syrup level should be around where the dry sugar was sitting for an approximate 2:1 mix.


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## lharder (Mar 21, 2015)

I fed 4 of my bigger hives but am finding the inverted buckets leak too often causing a robbing problem. My nucs have been hit hard by robbing (and skunks). I had to feed them lots due to the dry summer which has led to problems. I think my nuc survival will be low. 

I much prefer the hive top, but they have to be bee tight. I don't have hive tops for my bigger hives, but plan on making some fatbeeman style. The hives have been weighed and can be propped up with fondant early spring.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

datsdajoke said:


> I've found the fastest are pail feeders. 3gal plastic pails (basically a short 5gal pail) that have a hole covered with very fine metal mesh. Easy to feed 30lbs to a hive with only one trip. Flip over on top of the inner cover and cover with a deep and the telescoping lid.


Yes, I am giving some serious thought to switching from glass bottles w/ perforated cap, to plastic pails.

I like the bottle/perforated top because I can feed through a screen, meaning I can place and remove the bottle without putting on a bee suit, because the screen keeps the bees contained in the hive. Everything goes faster when not suited up. But . . .

If the large pail allows me to do an entire feeding without a refill, then that may be more efficient, even if I need to suit up when applying/removing the feed pail.


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

Brother uses plastic pales with screens bought as feeders. 5 to 3 mix leaks, 2 to 1 does not with his screen size, whatever that is.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

msl said:


> . . . My hive in an out yard 6 miles away on the outer side of chatfeild produced dubble my littleton yard, they also were genital and needed treatment...


msl - I am very close to Chatfield Reservoir, too. We should meet at one of our apiaries sometime and compare notes on beekeeping in our area.





.


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

shinbone said:


> Maybe the extra care required by using relatively fragile glass containers is part of my problem. Glass coated with slippery thick syrup is hard to handle, too. A metal can with a loop handle would be helpful.


I used to use mason jars. It was a pain. 15 or so don't transport well, and the cleaning was a pain. Light inside the jars made algae problems. Switched to metal paint cans and never looked back. Spray with some paint that adheres to metal and no rust issues. Comes with a handle for easy transport, and you can get 'em cheap at any home depo or lowes. No light in the jar means very little algae growth without the need to use bleach, essential oils, or HBH.



shinbone said:


> Yes, I am giving some serious thought to switching from glass bottles w/ perforated cap, to plastic pails.


Keep in mind some plastics break down in the sun fairly quickly. I tried going cheaper and got some plastic paint tubs and tried using those. In addition to having more algae issues, after one year they became very brittle and cracked. Haven't had that issue with metal yet.


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## Spur9 (Sep 13, 2016)

beemandan said:


> I use hive top feeders. They are plastic and if properly prepared don’t drown bees. They hold about 1.5 gallons if the hive is relatively level.
> I mix my syrup in my 25 gallon bottling tank. It has a water jacket and heater. I put in about 9 gallons of water…heat to 170 and stir in 150lbs of sugar for a heavy syrup. It makes about 21 to 22 gallons of finished syrup. I use 1 gallon plastic containers to move the syrup to the hives. One could easily use 5 gallon plastic pails….but I don’t like having to lift them when full. If you don’t have a bottling tank….you will need one eventually.


What do you use to mix with (boat paddle, drill w/ mixer, etc)?


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

I use my stock pot which holds about 6-7 gallons to make my syrup. I had an interesting occurrence the other day when I made a batch. I put in the hot water from the tap, then dumped the sugar in and put it on a medium low heat. About 65 minutes later, it was boiling but had a layer of cold water about 1.5" deep sitting on top, it was interesting to see and I should've taken a video on it. You could see the interface, just like when I made stock, the fat sits on top and the stock kind of boils under it, it looked very similar. I stuck my finger in it and it was cool to the touch but did get warmer to very hot where the interface was. I fill 5 gallon buckets with the syrup with the snap on screw on lid adapter, but they will leak if knocked over or tilted etc... so it's a little bit of a pain. I then use a large funnel and a 2qt metal paint bucket to distribute into Mann Lake 1 gallon frame feeders. The only hive top feeders I've used is the fatbeeman design. Never any bees drowning but they don't hold a lot. I've modified mine to where the ladder is in the middle though and I have a reservoir on each side. The next step is probably trying plasti dip or something to seal them off so I can just fill the box itself, but hivetop feeders are the most efficient.


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## psm1212 (Feb 9, 2016)

I bit the bullet this year and ordered 10 Mann Lake hive top feeders when they went on sale this summer. Yes, it was an expensive investment. But I can now pull up my truck to the back of the hive, pour in almost 4 gallons in each hive, and on to the next. Don't have to suit up.

I have not noticed drowned bees yet, but I just started this method about a month ago. Jury is still out, but I really like it so far. 

I mix 5:3 because I have a hard time getting 2:1 to stay in solution. I can dissolve it, but the sugar ultimately seems to come out of solution on me. 

I boil 2 gallons of water in a stock pot, then dump in 28 pounds of sugar. (A 16 gal. bottling tank is in my future) Dump that into a 5 gallon bucket and do it again. Keep my buckets of syrup stored outside to load up in my truck when it is time to head out to the bee yards. Before I load them, I split each 5 gallon bucket into two separate 5 gallon buckets for ease of handling. 

I have a lot of buckets at my house.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Spur9 said:


> What do you use to mix with (boat paddle, drill w/ mixer, etc)?


I got a long handled stirring spoon at the brew shop.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

shinbone said:


> What brand of top feeder do you use?


I use these.

https://gabees.com/product/g55-one-piece-plastic-hive-top-for-10-frame/

The white end pieces snap in place and will crack in the corners eventually….allowing bees to enter and drown. When I get them, I immediately seal the corners with an aquarium sealant. 

I like them better than the Mann Lake ones as those have so much open space underneath that if you are feeding new hives they will draw comb, produce brood and store honey on the underside. It can be a mess.


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## cybball (Jan 7, 2017)

shinbone said:


> Yes, I am giving some serious thought to switching from glass bottles w/ perforated cap, to plastic pails.
> 
> I like the bottle/perforated top because I can feed through a screen, meaning I can place and remove the bottle without putting on a bee suit, because the screen keeps the bees contained in the hive. Everything goes faster when not suited up. But . . .
> 
> If the large pail allows me to do an entire feeding without a refill, then that may be more efficient, even if I need to suit up when applying/removing the feed pail.


Granted, I'm in year 1, but I've been feeding using 2 gallon buckets. Very easy to fill/mix at home, take to the bee yard, flip and put on. I just take the empties home. I use a deep box and set the buckets on top of an inner cover with a hole (the way I do it). Plus, no drowning. I would think that would work well with 15 hives. Wouldn't do it that way with 100 hives, but should work for you.


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## psm1212 (Feb 9, 2016)

beemandan said:


> I like them better than the Mann Lake ones as those have so much open space underneath that if you are feeding new hives they will draw comb, produce brood and store honey on the underside. It can be a mess.


I have been thinking about that issue of comb building. Also worried about creating an SHB penthouse. I was thinking about spraying foam insulation into all the cavities and only leaving the route to the syrup open, but I was wondering if the bees would chew it and get it all in the brood boxes. I don't have to worry about it at this time of year, but I was thinking of some "fix" before they go back on in the Spring. Any ideas?


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## psm1212 (Feb 9, 2016)

shinbone: With your roof top setup, you need a 30 gallon ag/chem tank with a pump and hose. Keep your tank loaded on the ground and your hose nozel on the roof top. No hauling syrup up and down the ladder. You could probably get all that for around $1,500. Your older self will think it was money well spent.


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## msl (Sep 6, 2016)

Just talked to the guy who keeps bees in the same yard as I do (1st time I have ran in to him). He extracted 120 pounds from 18 langs and is needing to feed, I am feeling real good about my my advrage about now...
so a very poor season for many in this area


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Shinbone, I use the Betterbee styrofoam hive top feeder and have very few drowned bees. My nucs are fed with mason jars on a screened inner cover also for the same reasons you stated.


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## BDT123 (Dec 31, 2016)

Shinbone, with 15 hives maybe the easiest would be barrel feeding, open feeding in high volume.
http://www.uoguelph.ca/honeybee/videos.shtml
Check out the video on feeding bees and see how University of Guelph does theirs. One barrel for every 10 hives. Food for thought.


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## msl (Sep 6, 2016)

Open feeding in urban areas in not a good idea for many reasons, Our area is mobbed with backyard beekeepers and thick with ferals. My patio explodes with bees every time I mix syrup or render wax, and my hives are off site. Top of my head I know of 6 other beekeepers with in a mile and 1/2 of me real number is likly dubble or triple that.


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## TWall (May 19, 2010)

I try not to feed but am not at all afraid to if needed, for whatever reason.

Several years ago Michael Palmer had a thread, or threads maybe, on making heavy syrup and paint can feeders. I have adopted those methods and find feeding much easier. 

Here is what I do:

Heavy syrup. 25 lb bag of syrup in a 5 gal bucket. Level sugar. Mark sugar level. Add hot water back to original sugar level. Mix. It 5-10 minutes sugar is dissolved. I put inverted paint cans directly on top bars. Depending on needs/weather a strong hive will get two. I used a quart on weaker nucs this year.

I am not sure of the end sugar ratio. It is not quite 2:1. It mixes easier and turns back to sugar slower.

Tom


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

This thread with _Michael Palmer_ can feeder directions may not be the _same_ thread TWall is referring to, but it appears to be _close enough_: 
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?294830-Double-Nuc-Box-Feeder-Advice-Needed


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Has anyone used plastic coffee cans? I find that the 30 ounce ones still fit under a medium hive body. I have been saving them but have never tried it yet. I also find feeding to be hard work unless you want tons of equiptment sitting around. I Have used the baggies and it is ok but only a gal at a time, I want four gal at one time.

I also don't like all the open space above while feeding. It is ok if you are just filling up what they already have comb for but there are times when I thing giving them open space up high could bite you with comb being drawn.

The quart jars and such is fine but I would like to get to where I can set a gal on just once. I was going to buy the paint cans but then would have to use two medium hive bodies to encase it. The coffee cans seem to fit. Are the plastic lids going to work? Has anyone tried this?
Thanks
gww


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## GaSteve (Apr 28, 2004)

I use frame feeders and add a couple sticks for floats. I mix syrup in a barrel and haul it in 5 gallon blue plastic jerry cans. They come with spouts that makes filling pretty easy since I can drive up close to the hives in all the yards. As the number of hives grows I'll be moving up to a tank and pump maybe next year.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

Rader - Thanks for the link.


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## StephenT (May 15, 2017)

I use these

https://m.lowes.com/pd/Letica-2-Gallon-Residential-Bucket/50434788

https://m.lowes.com/pd/Letica-12-15-in-White-Plastic-Bucket-Lid/50434782


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Get the hives off the roof.
Buy Syrup, not mix your own.
Frame feeders or other.


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## texanbelchers (Aug 4, 2014)

gww said:


> Has anyone used plastic coffee cans? I find that the 30 ounce ones still fit under a medium hive body. I have been saving them but have never tried it yet. I also find feeding to be hard work unless you want tons of equiptment sitting around. I Have used the baggies and it is ok but only a gal at a time, I want four gal at one time.
> 
> I also don't like all the open space above while feeding. It is ok if you are just filling up what they already have comb for but there are times when I thing giving them open space up high could bite you with comb being drawn.
> 
> ...


The lids come off very easily when inverted, especially with warm syrup. That creates undesired open feeding. :no:


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## missybee (Sep 6, 2014)

We have 18 hives. 
With our poor nectar flow after the 6 weeks in the spring, we feed from July on. We do not pull any capped honey frames from the brood boxes. Start light feeding July, August, September. IE we start with quarts move up to gallons dependent on how much of their capped honey they are going through. This year by August most of the capped honey was gone in a few of the hives. One hive went though 7 frames. 

In October we put the mann lake hive top feeders on. Each hive gets 2/1 every 7 days or so. When they start capping the top box we slow it down again. 
No bees drown! A lot of yellow jackets drown. We put a screened inner cover over the hive top feeders. 

Mixing it, I bring a big pot to a rolling boil on the stove, takes about 5-8 minutes (induction stove heats it fast), dump it into a 5 gallon bucket 1/2 full of sugar, mix with a paint mixer. One pot of water does 3 buckets with sugar. I can make enough 2/1 for all the hives in about a hour plus a bit, just watch TV while doing it. We take the buckets out half filled, with a easy remove lid on them, lift the hive top off, dump it in.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

texasb.....


> gwwThe lids come off very easily when inverted, especially with warm syrup. That creates undesired open feeding. :no:


Thats what I wanted to know. I had the same situation with one of my zip lock baggies. I don't know if it was a bad bag or I cut to deep or what but it all ran out the bottom board. Thanks for adressing my question.
Cheers
gww


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## beehapiary (Jan 13, 2017)

Up until my last batch of 2:1, I had been heating the water to a boil then remove from heat and mix in the sugar. Then I read or saw video of Michael Palmer's 5 gallon bucket method that require no heating. Never going to spend time heating the water again. That doesn't help with moving it to the roof but will save some time.


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## missybee (Sep 6, 2014)

beehapiary said:


> Up until my last batch of 2:1, I had been heating the water to a boil then remove from heat and mix in the sugar. Then I read or saw video of Michael Palmer's 5 gallon bucket method that require no heating. Never going to spend time heating the water again. That doesn't help with moving it to the roof but will save some time.


What does he do? I will try to find it via searching.


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## TWall (May 19, 2010)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> This thread with _Michael Palmer_ can feeder directions may not be the _same_ thread TWall is referring to, but it appears to be _close enough_:
> http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?294830-Double-Nuc-Box-Feeder-Advice-Needed


Rader, I knew you would post the link. I almost feel guilty about being so lazy!

Thanks,

Tom


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

missybee


> What does he do? I will try to find it via searching.


I saw a vidio of micheal being interviewd and how he explained it was. He would put sugar in a bucket, he would mark the bucket where the sugar came up to. He would put water up to the mark he had made. He would stir. When stiring it would make it all go below the mark. He would then top up the water back to the mark and stir one more time and this gave consistant mixture.

I do the same thing but don't make a mark. I just guess cause perfection does not really seem to be required. I still get some settling and most times I do use hot tap water but I also don't use a drill paint stirrer very often.
I don't worry about the settling too much cause the next batch I make can incorperat it. I am changing my top feeders to where I just put straw in them as a ladder rather then keeping the top closed as I have been doing. 

It is kinda open feeding but I have found when I pull my top feeders if there is a crust of sugar on the bottom from settling. If I take them away from the hives and just set them out, the bees will clean out the crust that settled.
Good luck.
gww


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## missybee (Sep 6, 2014)

Got it so the sugar that settles is just part of the next batch. Thanks for the info!

We pulled our hive tops in the last few days, there was some with a sugar coating on the bottom. I have them all sitting out letting the bees clean them out. 

All the hives had a lot of capped honey, but we are still darn warm, so we added a gallon to each hive as a fluff, with few holes in the lids. I did not want them to take down the gallons in the hive top in one to two days and back fill where the queen is laying. 

Soon they will get sugar blocks, our temperature is dipping a bit, actually calling for frost tomorrow.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

I don't know if someone has stated this already because I'm not going to read the whole thread. But there's no need to heat your syrup to make 2:1 (or at least close) unless you have some bizarre water circumstances. I don't know the exact ratio my heavy syrup, it's a 25# bag in a 5-gallon bucket and water to fill it 2-3 inches from the top. I use cold hose water and mix it in my garage with a 1/2" drill and paint mixing paddle. I stir it three times over about 2-3 hours and it is crystal clear the 8-ish hours later.

Feeding 35 this way going into winter. Had probably 60-ish during summer with mating nucs and all that. 

I need to come up with a better way. I've got a couple ideas...


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

_Gww_ had fairly decent summary of Michael Palmer's 2:1 syrup making technique, but here it is straight from the horse's mouth: 



Michael Palmer said:


> You know, you don't have to weigh or measure...
> 
> Make mark inside a 5 gallon bucket. Fill to mark with granulated sugar. Fill to mark with hot water. Stir well. Top off with water to mark. Stir well until sugar is dissolved. 65% syrup every time.



If I was feeding hives on a roof, I'd skip the hot water and just mix the syrup from a hose - right there on the roof. Mix well with an electric drill & drywall mud paddle, and probably end up with a mix that was slightly less than 2:1, but _close enough_ ...


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## msl (Sep 6, 2016)

If I had a pump, and was going to pump to the roof to fill hive top feeders, I would take something like a 55gal barrel and use the pump to do the mixing.
Given our weather, this time of year I would be pushing it as thick as I could, little time to ripen it left


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

Aggregating everyones' helpful suggestions, I am thinking the best plan is to place a heated bottling tank on the roof and fill it from the ground with a garden hose. Of course, I would need a well-fitting lid to keep the bees out. I would still have to carry the granulated sugar to the roof, but that would be easier to do in dry form rather than already-made syrup. That right there would save a huge amount of work.

I could also use the 3 gallon plastic buckets to get the feeding done with no refills required. That would further save a few steps.

Bottling tanks are crazy expensive, but at least it would do double-duty for bottling honey and mixing syrup.





.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Rader


> If I was feeding hives on a roof, I'd skip the hot water and just mix the syrup from a hose - right there on the roof. Mix well with an electric drill & drywall mud paddle, and probably end up with a mix that was slightly less than 2:1, but _close enough_ ...


And if you kept about a hundred feet of hose up there in a coil by the bees, You would have quite a bit of very hot water for a little bit. You can not use the cheapest hose on the market if you do this though, ask me how I know.
Cheers
gww
Ps This is how I fill the grandkids little plastic swiming pool. When I get to the cold water from the well, I go in for a half hour and come back out and am back in buisness.


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## psm1212 (Feb 9, 2016)

jwcarlson said:


> I don't know if someone has stated this already because I'm not going to read the whole thread. But there's no need to heat your syrup to make 2:1 (or at least close) unless you have some bizarre water circumstances. I don't know the exact ratio my heavy syrup, it's a 25# bag in a 5-gallon bucket and water to fill it 2-3 inches from the top. I use cold hose water and mix it in my garage with a 1/2" drill and paint mixing paddle. I stir it three times over about 2-3 hours and it is crystal clear the 8-ish hours later.
> 
> Feeding 35 this way going into winter. Had probably 60-ish during summer with mating nucs and all that.
> 
> I need to come up with a better way. I've got a couple ideas...


I am thinking you probably need closer to 33 pounds of sugar to get to 2:1 with that method. 2 gallons water = 33 pounds. 2 gallons of water + 33 pounds of sugar makes right at 5 gallons of 2:1 syrup. I've noticed that the bees don't complain about sugar concentrations though.


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## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

psm1212 said:


> I am thinking you probably need closer to 33 pounds of sugar to get to 2:1 with that method. 2 gallons water = 33 pounds. 2 gallons of water + 33 pounds of sugar makes right at 5 gallons of 2:1 syrup. I've noticed that the bees don't complain about sugar concentrations though.


I think you are right. If one fills a pail with sugar and puts a mark, dumps the sugar and fills the pail to the mark with water and mixes in the sugar, you are getting more like 1:1. Think ratio is bit lower because water is slightly heavier than sugar.

However, if you make the mark at dry sugar level, and fill about 1/2 way with water and then add sugar, you are getting more like 5:3.

I'm pretty sure 2 quarts of sugar and a quart of water makes 2 quarts of sugar syrup. The original instructions as I remember them is fill a pail to a certain level and make a mark. Add water and mix and keep adding water until liquid syrup returns to mark line. Have never done it this way as I like adding the sugar to the warm water.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

mgolden


> I think you are right. If one fills a pail with sugar and puts a mark, dumps the sugar and fills the pail to the mark with water and mixes in the sugar, you are getting more like 1:1. Think ratio is bit lower because water is slightly heavier than sugar.


I dissagree. I have did it and if I have the sugar sitting at about the three gal mark, there is no way that more then a gal of water hits the mark. the density of the sugar takes up a lot of space. Try it.

If this can be trusted it shows 3 quarts of sugar with 1.5 quarts of water comes up to 3 quarts of 2 to 1.
http://www.lancasterbeekeepers.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/syrup.pdf

So three gal of sugar plus 1.5 gal water equals 3 gal sugar water.
Cheers
gww


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## billabell (Apr 19, 2010)

You might want to consider just feeding sugar bricks. Pretend it is winter. I stopped feeding syrup last year except to nucs. It is way to much work and I only have 8 hives. I make a three inch shim tack a plastic queen excluder to the bottom and then a 1/4 inch shim on that between the top box and the excluder. Then put in your sugar bricks or even pollen patties if you want. The bees will come up through the excluder and be all over the sugar.The bees will provide the water but if you feel the need to put water in your hives put next to the bricks a plastic tray like lunch meats come in. Put pine shavings in wet it down real good ( if you want you can drill several small holes in the bottom of the tray). Works fine in my area. In winter the heat from the cluster will keep moisture on the bottom of your bricks. Oh, I also last year bought some winter patties from Mann Lake the bees loved them. I may even forgo the sugar bricks this year and just give them the winter patties. I leave about 25lbs of honey in those hives. Just some thoughts.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Billabell
I use sugar blocks on some during winter. I have been flirting with the ideal of trying only dry sugar even on splits I make and swarms. I have not figured out how it might work to do it with out having extra space that the bees build comb in. They had started to build comb in my 1.5 inch shims that my sugar blocks were in this spring. I thought of maby just dumping it on the bottom board but figure they would be more likely to carry it out as trash. I have never tried just doing that but it is one thing that is currently circling around in my mind.
Cheers
gww


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Hot water will dissolved the sugar much faster than cold. Why not use hot water from your
water heater source? I'm sure your bees don't mind.


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

gww said:


> Billabell
> I thought of mayby just dumping it on the bottom board but figure they would be more likely to carry it out as trash. I have never tried just doing that but it is one thing that is currently circling around in my mind.
> Cheers
> gww


What is on the bottom board stays on the bottom here, just stays too cold, yours may not. Down between the frames just gets worked on the edges. I think the larger heated area on top is crucial. Trade offs.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

psm1212 said:


> I am thinking you probably need closer to 33 pounds of sugar to get to 2:1 with that method. 2 gallons water = 33 pounds. 2 gallons of water + 33 pounds of sugar makes right at 5 gallons of 2:1 syrup. I've noticed that the bees don't complain about sugar concentrations though.


Who said I was putting two gallons of water in? I honestly don't know how much it is, but I bet it's less than two gallons if I were guessing.


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## psm1212 (Feb 9, 2016)

jwcarlson said:


> Who said I was putting two gallons of water in? I honestly don't know how much it is, but I bet it's less than two gallons if I were guessing.


I don't know how much water you are putting in. From your description, I am guessing that you wind up with a little short of 5 gallons. If 33 lbs of sugar + 2 gallons of water = approximately 5 gallons of syrup, I am guessing you are under 2:1 concentration. So if you are putting in 25 lbs of sugar and still reaching almost 5 gallons, I believe you are lighter than 2:1, which is still fine. I can't get true 2:1 to stay in solution. I mix 5:3 which is 2 gallons of water + 29 pounds of sugar, which puts me a little shy of 5 gallons.


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## TWall (May 19, 2010)

texanbelchers said:


> The lids come off very easily when inverted, especially with warm syrup. That creates undesired open feeding. :no:


I have NEVER had a lid come off.

Tom


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## TWall (May 19, 2010)

psm1212 said:


> I believe you are lighter than 2:1, which is still fine. I can't get true 2:1 to stay in solution. I mix 5:3 which is 2 gallons of water + 29 pounds of sugar, which puts me a little shy of 5 gallons.


I don't think the bees really care what the ratio is. More concentrated is easier for the the bees to process for winter. Less concentrates is easier to make and won't crystalize as quickly.

Tom


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## JustKrispy (Jan 8, 2016)

Open feed away from your hives


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Salty and twall
I am using the shim for sugar block but thanks for your imput to my ideal and it is good to know that I might still have a use for those coffee cans that are building up.
Thanks
gww


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

I always just fill a bucket half way with warm water, and fill with sugar. Usually ends up being roughly 35 lbs. Mix with a paint mixer. Top off with more sugar once its disolved (if you want to, I'm too lazy) which is usually another 2-3 lbs. By my math that's 20 lbs water to 38 lbs of sugar. Pretty darn close to 2:1. Close enough for me at least.

It's by weight, not volume.


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## cbay (Mar 27, 2017)

TWall said:


> I have NEVER had a lid come off.
> 
> Tom


Didn't have a lid come off, but tried the folger's plastic coffee can for open feeding earlier this year and it leaked. Tried other lids and they leaked too. Would be scared to try them inside a hive.


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## BDT123 (Dec 31, 2016)

Shinbone, are you rural or urban? With 15 hives you'd be a little 'dense' for urban. Why not try open feeding? U of Guelph says its fastest. 4 gallons per hive gone in 3 days, one 45 gallon drum per 10 hives. Straw on top of syrup, lids propped up to keep out rain, done in 3-4 days. No lifting or carrying buckets, no pumps... Why not?
Of course, getting late in the season now.
If you have close neighbours, that would be a different story... the U of G video shows a total feeding frenzy that might freak out non-beeks.


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## missybee (Sep 6, 2014)

JustKrispy said:


> Open feed away from your hives


How far away should you have it?


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

missybee said:


> How far away should you have it?


100+ yards

Biggest problem with open feeding is the "loss" factor. If I direct feed, I might need 2-3 gallons. If I open feed, I have to plan on 5-6 gallons per hive. That makes for an additional 175 lbs of sugar per yard, per feeding. It adds up fast.

Plus, open feeding isn't quite so easy when you have to feed in 55 gallon drums. I can mix up 5 gallon buckets quick. If I have a 10 hive yard, using 1 gallon feeder buckets, that's 2 five gallon buckets moving out there two maybe three times over a few weeks. Not difficult. If open feeding, you're dragging out 350 lbs of sugar to an outyard, plus roughly 200 lbs of water (cold, not warm, harder to mix). That's some weight to haul. Not counting the canoe paddle you'll need to mix it up. Considerably more than 2 5 gallon buckets.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

I use my leather awl to poke holes in the tight fitting lid and invert on an open bench. It's the best method of controlled open feeding I use for a small yard. No drowning.
Hornets and yellow jackets cannot access the inverted bucket syrup for some reason, I assume their tongues are not long enough to get it.

























Yellow jackets will congregation underneath on the ground, but if you go out early in the morning before bees come out, you can nip them in about 2 seconds with a propane torch. Don't need to burn them, it just takes off their wings.
Photo below just shows a few, sometimes there are hundreds all in one very small area. They come out before daylight & in very cool temps. It's a golden opportunity to knock down the population without poison. Along with trapping you can keep these guys reduced.









Larger containers with syrup and straw floating on them also work well, but yellow jackets will be all over them along with the bees. When I have both methods of syrup available at the same time, it's weird but the bees prefer the buckets to the straw/syrup container.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Lauri


> Yellow jackets will congregation underneath on the ground, but if you go out early in the morning before bees come out, you can nip them in about 2 seconds with a propane torch. Don't need to burn them, it just takes off their wings.


You come up with some unique ideals to adress things and I always am interested in them and in the fact that they were even thought of.
Cheers
gww


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Then their buddies collect them up and haul them off to cannibalize them. It's a brutal hornet world.


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## TWall (May 19, 2010)

cbay said:


> Didn't have a lid come off, but tried the folger's plastic coffee can for open feeding earlier this year and it leaked. Tried other lids and they leaked too. Would be scared to try them inside a hive.


Coffee cans are not a substitute for paint cans. The compression formed when re-sealing a paint can lid eliminates any chance for leaking/vacuum breaking.

Tom


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## TWall (May 19, 2010)

duplicate post


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Tom
I wouldn't mind paint cans but am a bit cheap. Coffee cans are free. One big plus on them is that they come in sizes that fit in a medium and the paint cans don't. Plus they still hold more then a quart jar. I will probly try them and take my lumps. It won't be the first time I have caused the bees problims. My last baggie feeding one of the bags leaked out the bottom board and I used a leaky top feeder that did start some robbing, twice. I made another top feeder but they are heavy and take some storage space as you get more hives.

I actually agree with the topic of this thread that feeding with more hives is pretty hard. I need to get to where I don't need to feed except for dire emergencies. Then problim is solved.
Cheers
gww


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

gww said:


> One big plus on them is that they come in sizes that fit in a medium and the paint cans don't.


Why do you need to put it in a hive body, medium or deep? 

I stopped putting feeder buckets in hive boxes about 10 years ago. I cut a hole in my migratory tops and feed right from the hole. Or I put an inner cover without a telescoping top, put the can right on the inner cover. Wind knocks plastic buckets off. They don't bother my metal paint cans.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Specialk...



> Why do you need to put it in a hive body, medium or deep?
> 
> I stopped putting feeder buckets in hive boxes about 10 years ago. I cut a hole in my migratory tops and feed right from the hole. Or I put an inner cover without a telescoping top, put the can right on the inner cover. Wind knocks plastic buckets off. They don't bother my metal paint cans.


I didn't think that would be enough protection. Expecially if I had any dribble. I will try it though cause I am all for anything that will stop me from carrying extra stuff to the hives.
Thanks for pointing it out. I would have to make special tops or use mediums if I want to do 3 or four gal at a time but it should work well when I catch a swarm or maby I can get some Three gal buckets. I will take any tip you can think of that makes things easier.
Thanks
gww


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## TWall (May 19, 2010)

gww said:


> Tom I wouldn't mind paint cans but am a bit cheap. Coffee cans are free.


gww,

I understand the cheap part. For the way I am feeding I find the paint cans to be be the easiest way to feed quickly and inexpensively. I have used frame feeders too. They are a little cheaper than pain cans but not as easy to use, for me. I can replace a paint can quicker than I can refill a frame feeder.

I did try quart paint cans for the first time this year. I guess my preference is to have hives, including nucs, strong enough to take a gal at a time. Sometimes my plans don't match my my reality.

Tom


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

gww said:


> I would have to make special tops or use mediums if I want to do 3 or four gal at a time


Take an Advantech 4'x8' board, cut into 10 different 22"x17" pieces, cut a 1.5" hole in the center for feeding. Costs maybe $2.50 per top. I use them year round. When I'm not feeding I put a PVC test cap over the hole (https://www.homedepot.com/p/Oatey-1-1-2-in-Inset-Plastic-DWV-Test-Cap-with-Knock-Out-39100/100132303) costs less than a dollar each.

Paint them if you want, or don't. For the price, tough to beat. One heck of a lot cheaper than standard migratory tops, telescoping tops with inner covers, or any of that stuff.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Tom


> I did try quart paint cans for the first time this year. I guess my preference is to have hives, including nucs, strong enough to take a gal at a time. Sometimes my plans don't match my my reality.


Yes, early in the year I fed the small hives a pint put on at night in the hopes that it would be gone by morning in the hopes of keeping robbing down. As the season got on, I just put a gal on and put it on longer and just kept the entrances small and figured if they couldn't gaurd it they would die. I did have a bit of robbing and believe that the pressure slowed down a couple on build up but they didn't die yet and so I have a new plan. Next year if I split or catch a swarm, I am going to give them a gal or as close to a gal depending on if what I feed with holds a gal and call it good. It should give them a boost and that should be the time of flow.

I am tired of visiting the hives with a quart a day. In fall if they need it. I want to give them 2 to 4 gal all at once and be done.

I do like the hive top feeders for that cause I can give a gal or 4 gal. I don't like having to have 20 hive top feeders. 

Specialk. 
I have my own home made saw mill and have had a hard time buying plywood and stuff or buying anything cause of the "Ideal" of making everything myself. I have 20 hives made and did it with scrap plywood from other projects and stuff. I have made bottom boards with three boards for the floor. I just today used about the last of my quarter inch stuff for three inter covers. I have broke down in all this and bought one 3/4 inch plywood and one 1/4 inch plywood for cause it worked so much better then just boards for telescoping tops and intercovers.

I flirted with the ideal of feed sacks for inter covers but having real inter covers did make feeding easier.

I do not think I can make what your are talking about and so believe I will just buy the advantech and pvc and at least make some of what you suggest. I am so cheap and I got about 7 gal of honey this year and have sold one quart and pretty much most of the rest has been ate by us and my kids and some small gifts and so I am trying to stay cheap. If I actually use what I have and keep adding bees, at some point I will have to buy stuff cause I am much too slow working like I do now. I don't trust that I will sell stuff well and so try and keep it cheap.

I think what you are saying might make it easy enough to be worth it and also, it has to be easier if I keep adding hives.

It will be added to my to do list as I get close to running out of equiptment. Thanks and keep giving me good ideals.

I have been building for three years counting this winter and will only have a bit over 20 something hives and so this should show that I need all the help I can get. That is hives built, not how many I have bees in. I only have bees in 9 and they will probly not all live.
Thanks
gww

Ps I know you probly are not interested in what I typed above, It was only typed to show how inefficiant I am and that good suggestions do help me.


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

gww said:


> Ps I know you probly are not interested in what I typed above, It was only typed to show how inefficiant I am and that good suggestions do help me.


No worries.

If you got ~80 lbs of honey out of 9 hives this past year, I wouldn't be worrying about growing hive numbers. I'd work on improving your management. (unless you spent last year going from 1 or 2 hives to 9, and got ~80 lbs of honey).


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## aran (May 20, 2015)

dumb q but where do you guys get clean unused 1 gallon paint tins with lids? I use hive top feeders that i put screens onto the tops of because of the amount of drowned bees i was getting.


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## Randyw (May 18, 2012)

I get them at Sherwin Williams, they charge me $1.00+tax. I bet you could get them a Lowes or Home Depot.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Specialk


> If you got ~80 lbs of honey out of 9 hives this past year, I wouldn't be worrying about growing hive numbers. I'd work on improving your management. (unless you spent last year going from 1 or 2 hives to 9, and got ~80 lbs of honey).


Had three small hives come out of winter. Caught 2 swarms that were not from my hives. Gave one swarm from my hives to someone else. So ten hives were forced on me due to swarm instinct rather then making honey instinct. I hope to do better next year on the swarm thing. I did not make one split on purpose except after I saw swarm cells. Better luck nest year.
Cheers
gww


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

gww said:


> I did not make one split on purpose except after I saw swarm cells.


Yeah, I wouldn't be building a whole bunch of equipment with plans on expansion just yet if I were you. I'd work on getting the hives you have under control. Work on swarm management, honey production, and getting strong colonies overwintered. When you THINK you know what you're doing there, decide if you want to expand. 

I see many who expand too quickly, and it's like a circus. Colonies get out of control, crash, swarm, and you don't have much to show for it.

Just my two cents. If you decided not to listen to me you wouldn't be the first


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Specialk
Probly good advice but it was also good I had the equipment built when I lost control of swarming last year. I had some place to put them. I might know a little on what I did wrong last year. First, I waited on too nice of a day thinking I was safe till april 15 but they swarmed on the 13th.

Second was that I knew the hives had too much stored stuff and even posted a question on here that I was worried about it. We had a very warm feb that let the bees take full advantage of the early blooming trees. Or, thats my story and I'm sticking to it.

The building of hive equiptment actually has a differrent purpose then actually putting bees in them. I am retired and it gives me a reason to piddle in the garage during winter. I had built a pole barn and a club house for my brother and don't like trying to do furnature and don't like waste. So it was something I could piddle at and feel a little productive even though I am mostly wasting time.

I also have not filled the hives with quite as much sugar water this year as I did last fall and now I will probly have starve outs instead of swarming.


> I see many who expand too quickly, and it's like a circus. Colonies get out of control, crash, swarm, and you don't have much to show for it.


I imagine all these things will be happening to me, luckily I don't have to relie on bees in any way but would still like to get better.

So I had the hives built with the plan to expand by 30 percent from three hives and would just let the other hives sit unused cause building them was as much a hoby as a plan but like you say, lost control of the hives and so I guess it was lucky I had the equipment. Believe me, it was not my plan.


I did find having to feed the new ones pretty hard and so am trying to stream line or take more chances to see where the line is to maby not feed as much.

I do not believe I will have 9 hives come spring cause some did not build up very strong and others did. 
Cheers.
gww


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## aran (May 20, 2015)

Randyw said:


> I get them at Sherwin Williams, they charge me $1.00+tax. I bet you could get them a Lowes or Home Depot.


thanks mate


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## aran (May 20, 2015)

Duplicate


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Randyw said:


> I get them at Sherwin Williams, they charge me $1.00+tax. I bet you could get them a Lowes or Home Depot.


Home Depot charged me 3.50 for an empty quart can. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. If SW has them for a buck, thats the way to go.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Duplicate.


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## aran (May 20, 2015)

i tried finding the paint cans on the sherwin williams website and found nada. Ill go into the local store and see if they have them. Hope they do. Looks like homedepot sell them too but for 5-10 bucks each.


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