# Tell the truth



## Ted (Feb 20, 2000)

OK , you lie to your Friends and Ill lie to my Friends but lets not lie to each other..........
What is the price of honey in the drum (55 gal), are the packers having there own way with the beek, or we Finley getting a fair price for the fruit of our labor


----------



## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

Produced over 8 ton last week and it all sold for $1.85 in the barrel. Orders are backed up for the next two weeks and still taking orders. Might have to raise the price or I might run out again before Oct like last year. I've been in the business for 30+ years and when it comes to honey price I don't lie.


----------



## Mike Snodgrass (Mar 11, 2010)

Honey householder, you could have made 6 times what you made if you had sold retail! Of course, im baseing that on what lots of folks are saying here on what they get for honey retail. Do you choose to sell wholesale because of less costs or is more the work of setting up retail involved?


----------



## Trevor Mansell (Jan 16, 2005)

Last I heard the price of white is $1.60 and ELA is $1.50.


----------



## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

Mike Snodgrass said:


> Honey householder, you could have made 6 times what you made if you had sold retail! Of course, im baseing that on what lots of folks are saying here on what they get for honey retail. Do you choose to sell wholesale because of less costs or is more the work of setting up retail involved?



When you produce honey by the ton instead of pounds like HoneyHouseholder, you can't retail every last drop of it, just too much work. I think its better to sell at 1.85/lb. in the drum now, because when the packer finds out how big this year's crop is going to be, he won't be paying anywhere near that price, JMO.


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Believe it or not, the size of the crop doesn't determine the price. There is more too it than that, I believe. Certainly, not when there is a crop faliar or a bumper crop in one state or another, that doesn't influence the price that packers are willing to pay. Unless it's a cpl of the top ten states, like the Dakotas, FL and CA. A boom or bust in all of those states might influence what packers will pay. But only if Argentina has a poor or good crop.

I don't sell in barrels, usually. I might this year, if everything goes the way it looks like it could.

What are you seeing for price, Ted? have you had any quotes from packers? Or just third hand info?


----------



## Barry Digman (May 21, 2003)

This is just a wild guess, but I'm betting the largest honey producer in Ohio knows something about whether to retail or wholesale his product.


----------



## Johnny (Sep 7, 2007)

Can you imagine trying to bottle/sell 16000 1lb bottles (8tons) of honey. And that's what he produced last week! Something tells me he's not done for the year. 

John


----------



## Mike Snodgrass (Mar 11, 2010)

I agree Barry and Johnny...Im just trying to learn something. And if its that i have a thick head then fine, at least i learned it! Question is though, Doesnt anybody sell these volumes retail or do they leave it to packers? Thanks


----------



## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

Most of the honey producers I know that operate 800 or more hives will sell most of their honey by the drum to other packers ( large and small ). Once you are operating that many hives the quantity of honey produced creates another full time job bottling and delivering. Most of the large producers will sell small volumes of their honey bottled but there is not enough hours in the day to do it all.

As for the price of honey- Yesterday I wholesaled 60 5 gal pails(56lbs net ea) at $1.65 lbs plus I charged him double what I paid for the pails(I got a great deal on them). I gave him that price a month ago and I know I underpriced it a little but the guy is a repeat customer. 

I've been hearing packers are paying $1.60-$1.65 for White-ELA


----------



## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

I'm only going to produce about 1 barrel this year, and will squeeze every last penny out of it at retail.opcorn:


----------



## Barry Digman (May 21, 2003)

Mike Snodgrass said:


> I agree Barry and Johnny...Im just trying to learn something. And if its that i have a thick head then fine, at least i learned it! Question is though, Doesnt anybody sell these volumes retail or do they leave it to packers? Thanks


Mike, I don't think you're thick-headed and your questions are perfectly legitimate. 

Although I can't say that no one is doing it, selling tons and tons of honey at retail is something that would require remarkable locations with a lot of traffic and huge numbers of return customers. When I think "retail", I'm talking about the growers markets, roadside stands, county fair, and other events where you can set up a stand and sell honey that you've produced and packed yourself. Additionally, I'm only including packaging of perhaps as much as a 1 gallon jug. 


If I'm wrong and there are folks who are selling upwards of a couple hundred thousand dollars per year at retail perhaps they would be gracious enough to share their stories?


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Barry Digman said:


> If I'm wrong and there are folks who are selling upwards of a couple hundred thousand dollars per year at retail perhaps they would be gracious enough to share their stories?


 So you can move in right next to them?  Don't hold your breath.

What about the other half of Ted's question? Are packers finally paying beekeepers what it costs them to produce it?


----------



## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Naw, probably a penny or two less than what it costs them to produce. Not so low that it completely discourages them and yet 2 cents less than the cost of production to keep them hungry. That way they can get more work out of them.

Jean-Marc


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

So, are you saying that it costs $1.50/# to produce a lb of honey?


----------



## merdoc (May 4, 2010)

The last time my dad sold honey was early 80s.If I rember right honey was 35 to 45 cents I thought it was around 1.00 now days of course back then we only had afb and bears to worry about.I hope these prices hold for yall and im surprised the us hasant found away to send bees to china and sell honey back to us good luck all.


----------



## Dancing Bee Apiary (Jan 5, 2010)

Anyone in Ontario out there? Just wondering what to get for my barrel honey here. Not too many large producers around here.
Thanks


----------



## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

$1.70 last time I sold. 

There are very few successful operations that have commercial bees, and a bottling facility. It takes two different management styles for the different activities. The charismatic ability to successful market large amounts of packaged honey are talents that are often not found in the individual that must rely on the weather and other uncontrollable factors for a living. Those marketing people are generally poor beekeepers(the charisma is lost on the bees), and the persistent and persevering solitary beekeeper is better with bees thanpeople. However, I believe a the successful commercial producer/packer has been done before, and will be accomplished again.



Roland Diehnelt


----------



## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

To big to retail. Only so many hours in a day. Where do you think beekeepers get their local honey when they retail 7-8 ton a year.


----------



## Countryboy (Feb 15, 2009)

Householder produced 49 tons last year, and it was a bad year. That's roughly 100,000 pounds.

He averages producing 47 or 48 pounds of honey per hour, 40 hours a week, for a year.

How much time would you have to develop a retail market if you were producing 50 pounds an hour full time?


----------



## Ted (Feb 20, 2000)

What is the price of honey in the drum (55 gal), are the packers having there own way with the beek, are we Finley getting a fair price for the fruit of our labor

OK all I'm asking is the question above PRICE IN THE DRUM I all ready sell retail I'm looking for up to the week prices it looks like a range from $1.50 to $1.85 is that from the big packers in Ohio and PA or the small packer, and do you feel you are getting a fair shake


----------



## Bens-Bees (Sep 18, 2008)

> are the packers having there own way with the beek, or we Finley getting a fair price for the fruit of our labor


No, we still aren't getting $5/lb for bulk honey.


----------



## WVaBees (Jul 2, 2010)

Countryboy said:


> Householder produced 49 tons last year, and it was a bad year. That's roughly 100,000 pounds.
> 
> He averages producing 47 or 48 pounds of honey per hour, 40 hours a week, for a year.
> 
> How much time would you have to develop a retail market if you were producing 50 pounds an hour full time?


Good lord...how many hives does he have?


----------



## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

WVaBees said:


> Good lord...how many hives does he have?


Not as many as you might think! Bet he is too busy to reply. I've often wondered what his yards must be like.... Over the years he must have zeroed in on the best spots.


----------



## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

>No, we still aren't getting $5/lb for bulk honey

We'd be getting at least $5.00/lb. wholesale if we didn't import any, of course we wouldn't be able to meet the U.S. demand either, but then again, if we had consistent prices above $5.00/lb. bulk, there would be more folks getting into beekeeping commercially, so maybe eventually we would be able to meet the demand. At least we don't have to worry about any of this coming true in our lifetime.


----------



## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

hpm08161947 said:


> Not as many as you might think! Bet he is too busy to reply. I've often wondered what his yards must be like.... Over the years he must have zeroed in on the best spots.


I think he has been fine tuning his bee yards for at least 30 years, so yes, he has zeroed in on the best spots in his part of the state. You don't drive over 100 miles one way to a yard to get a 50 pound average out of that yard.:no:


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

jmgi said:


> if we had consistent prices above $5.00/lb. bulk, there would be more folks getting into beekeeping commercially, so maybe eventually we would be able to meet the demand.


This is exactly what happens when the base price goes up. Sideliners take the next step up and then there are so many beekeepers producing honey that the price goes down again.

I was asking Dave Hackenberg about tyhe price of honey one time and he said, "If you want the price of honey to go up, stop keeping bees." or something like that. In other words, if I want the price to get better for other beekeepers there has to be fewer of us producing the stuff and then the price will go up.

But then it will look like it is easy to make some money and a bunch of guys will jump into beekeeping and even things out again.

I think that honey prices must pace the growth in the economy in some fashion or other. Back in the 60s honey went from 15 cents to 45 cents one year and stayed there. Then it went to 60 cents and then jumped to almost 3 times that much one year and came back down to 90 cents and then back up to over a dollar and now it is around $1.50 to $1.80 or $2.00. Whatever is going on, it seems like honey prices trend upwards, w/out alot of fall. Unless I've missed something.


----------



## 123456789 (May 24, 2009)

jmgi said:


> >No, we still aren't getting $5/lb for bulk honey
> 
> We'd be getting at least $5.00/lb. wholesale if we didn't import any, of course we wouldn't be able to meet the U.S. demand either, but then again, if we had consistent prices above $5.00/lb. bulk, there would be more folks getting into beekeeping commercially, so maybe eventually we would be able to meet the demand. At least we don't have to worry about any of this coming true in our lifetime.


I think if honey went to $5 wholesale there would be no problem meeting demand  Creating demand might be a problem though.

Anyways, very good crop here so far, but there are still 7 weeks of flow left so time will tell.


edit; the last statement was for the 2010 honey production thead....... oops


----------



## Countryboy (Feb 15, 2009)

_how many hives does he have? _

800+

_You don't drive over 100 miles one way to a yard to get a 50 pound average out of that yard._

He doesn't have any yards 100 miles away. 50 miles max, and 150 pound average.


----------



## gregstahlman (Oct 7, 2009)

sometimes having a few thousand barrels of honey can help when negotiating a price with the packers.


----------



## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

Nothing like having the power of tonage.:banana:


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

gregstahlman said:


> sometimes having a few thousand barrels of honey can help when negotiating a price with the packers.


A few thousand barrels? How many hives do you have? Or, should I ask, how long have you been hoarding honey? I know a cpl of beekeepers here in NY that have had hundred barrel years and I guess Andy Card might have a cpl thousand bbls in a years time w/ 10,000 cols that get crops in more than one state, so maybe you have something like that in numbers of cols?


----------



## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

sqkcrk said:


> A few thousand barrels? How many hives do you have? Or, should I ask, how long have yopu been hoarding honey?


I think Greg does have pretty close to 10000 hives + he is in SD with that big flow.


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Ehh, that dang SD.  Always has to be first.


----------



## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

>He doesn't have any yards 100 miles away. 50 miles max, and 150 pound average

I believe I saw a post of his once that said they had a yard over 100 miles away years ago, doesn't matter if it was years ago, the point being you don't drive that far for a 50 lb. average, I wouldn't. The bottom line is that Honey Householder does his homework when it comes to selecting bee yards, as anybody should that works bees for a living.


----------



## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

>If I want the price to get better for other beekeepers there has to be fewer of us producing the stuff and then the price will go up.


In a perfect world without imports, that may be true.


----------



## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

Countryboy said:


> _how many hives does he have? _
> 
> 800+
> 
> ...


Just to clarify what I meant, I didn't mean that he only got a 50 lb. average out of a yard he had years ago 100+ miles away. I was trying to say that to drive that far he had to be getting MORE than a 50 lb. average.


----------



## Countryboy (Feb 15, 2009)

From what I understand, the old 100 mile yard wasn't a very good producing yard. The orchard the bee yard was at sold their honey though - so it makes a yard better if you can do a nice honey delivery when you work the yard.


----------



## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

Countryboy said:


> From what I understand, the old 100 mile yard wasn't a very good producing yard. The orchard the bee yard was at sold their honey though - so it makes a yard better if you can do a nice honey delivery when you work the yard.


Yep, I new there had to be something special about that yard!


----------

