# "SugarBags" feeding sugar from the bag.



## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

I have prepared 10 pound bags of sugar by soaking them in about one cup of water and allowing them to harden.









To fit in a 5-frame nuc box I cut the opening in the side.









A piece of wax paper or plastic wrap is used to hold the sugar in the bag while inverting the bag into a baking pan/dish.


















A cup of water is enough to saturate the bottom inch or so of the sugar.


Allow several days for them to dry.








Like fondant, I place the bag directly over the openings in the inner covers. The hardened layer of sugar prevents the rest from cascading into the hive.









A hive body is used to house the bag of sugar.


Here is one that had been worked on by the bees...









I generally do not break the inner covers loose until the first warm days of February or March. The sugar bags may be an economical alternative to fondant, and like fondant (over the inner cover), there's no need to open the hive in winter.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

BC, I know you have more time than I, but you can skip all the above steps and just put the bag of sugar right on the top bars. The bees will chew thru the paper and eat.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

sqkcrk said:


> BC, I know you have more time than I, but you can skip all the above steps and just put the bag of sugar right on the top bars. The bees will chew thru the paper and eat.


I don't remove the inner covers... and the bees don't need to chew paper.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

My point is, that if you did remove the inner cover and didn't wet the sugar, the bees ould still be able to get to the sugar. What happens if the colony is clustered to one side of the hive so it can't easily get to the handhold in the inner cover.

Whatever works for you, keep doing it. I was just mentioning an alternative. That's all.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

sqkcrk said:


> I was just mentioning an alternative.


Gee, I thought I was the one offering an alternative....


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## krad1964 (Jun 4, 2011)

Does all of the sugar in the bag harden or only the one side?


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

krad1964 said:


> Does all of the sugar in the bag harden or only the one side?


Just the bottom. I believe that some moisture will help to maintain the "ceiling" intact.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Why do your bees need such a feeding method? Wouldn't it be better to feed them thick syrup in September/October and be done with it?


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

Michael Palmer said:


> Why do your bees need such a feeding method? Wouldn't it be better to feed them thick syrup in September/October and be done with it?


 I have one nuc hive that had several chances to clean out some frames and build up some stores... They wouldn't clean frames that were not only above an inner cover, the frames were also upside down. And eventually over two inner covers. The queen even moved up into the upside down comb... I flipped them upright and will attempt to care for them. That nuc has sugar on it.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

I personally like dried sugar or sugar bricks better than syrup in my operation. It is an insurance policy on top of any colony not weighing a safe amount. It is easily refilled at anytime during the winter that lasts forever. In the spring the sugar is easily removed because it is all turned into a sugar cube. Then it is easily turned into syrup when weather makes syrup usable by the bees. A lot of ways of doing things.


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## Jack Grimshaw (Feb 10, 2001)

Gee Mike,I don't know.
If I could get the same results from plopping a bag of sugar on top of a hive as I can get from mixing syrup,filling feeders,dealing with leaks,and removing feeders(don't use paint cans);maybe it's worth a shot.

In the north,I've always considered candy boards,fondant or sugar to be emergency feed.If it's not in the comb in the fall,you are risking your bees.But in CT,in full sun and tar paper wrap,my bees want to break cluster and chimney right up the center ,leaving honey below and against the sides.Makes me nervous in early Feb.

I can see benefits:
Any sugar not used could be saved(What do you do with the last inch in the feeder in Nov)
Loose sugar would absorb moisture which the bees could reclaim.

Nothing wrong with thinking outside the box,especially one beekeepers have been using for over a hundred years.

I'll still feed 2:1 next fall


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

BeeCurious said:


> Gee, I thought I was the one offering an alternative....


I was offering an alternative to your alternative, which is an alternative to Mountain Camp's alternative to the alternative I first learned before I ever knew about beesource.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

sqkcrk said:


> I was offering an alternative to your alternative, which is an alternative to Mountain Camp's alternative to the alternative I first learned before I ever knew about beesource.


Well, that's one way to put it. I guess. 

26 years before Mountain Camp "Johannson" was pouring sugar over newsprint on topbars. 

http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...nCamp-or-Johansson-Method&p=498768#post498768


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

So it's the Johannson Method.


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

I am going to try this ‘Johannson brick Method’. End of the season I put ‘bag feeders’ to the weak hives and poured dry sugar on top of the bags in place for insurance. The bees have to move around the sides to get at it. 
I have heard of this before but with vinegar (Lauri I think) and thought it needed the vinegar to set up hard. $2 for a 4 lb bag, no fuss, nothing to clean up if they don’t eat it (just pick up the bag). 
Most of our days are between 30 and 40 degrees. A cold day here is 20 degrees, almost all of our days are wet. Candy boards were a pain. Candy turned out about half of the time, sometimes it turned brown and I did not want to feed it.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

sqkcrk said:


> So it's the Johannson Method.


The "Mountain Camp" method is what Johannson had done 26 years before...


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

I appreciated learning about the sugar bag variant. I might never need it, but had you not brought it up I am sure I never would have thought of it.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

BeeCurious said:


> They wouldn't clean frames that were not only above an inner cover, the frames were also upside down. And eventually over two inner covers. The queen even moved up into the upside down comb... I flipped them upright and will attempt to care for them. That nuc has sugar on it.


Next time place an empty super...no frames...between inner cover and box of combs to be cleaned out.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Jack Grimshaw said:


> Gee Mike,I don't know.
> If I could get the same results from plopping a bag of sugar on top of a hive as I can get from mixing syrup,filling feeders,dealing with leaks,and removing feeders(don't use paint cans);maybe it's worth a shot.
> 
> I can see benefits:
> (What do you do with the last inch in the feeder in Nov)


I understand the use as an emergency. I misunderstood what BC was saying. I thought he was adding a bag of sugar to every hive.. If a beekeeper HAS to do that I would say there's a management issue.

Using gallon cans on the top bars, there isn't any syrup left in the feeder.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

BeeCurious said:


> I place the bag directly over the openings in the inner covers. The hardened layer of sugar prevents the rest from cascading into the hive.


Does the rest of the bag get hard over time? If the bees eat through the harden layer the sugar above would fall through the hole in the cover. Maybe there is enough moisture in the hive keeping it intact.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

BeeCurious said:


> The "Mountain Camp" method is what Johannson had done 26 years before...


Then shouldn't it be named for the first person noted? Not that it really matters. Just making a point. I call it dry sugar feeding. Most of the beekeepers I talk to don't know what Mountain Camp Method of dry sugar feeding means. But dry sugar feeding pretty much explains itself.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

I like cider vinegar instead of water to acidify the sugar. ( If you watch the 'How it's Made -Sugar", you'll see them add lime to make the sugar slurry more alkaline)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIgavNuBRRA

( 3 cups vinegar to a shy quart to 25# sugar) I also add a few drops of lemongrass oil and a sprinkle of electrolytes. It's just in Case the hives get low on stores..I put a scoop or brick on every hive that isn't super heavy. The bees love it and eat it even when they have plenty of stores. Maybe unnecessary, but it makes me feel good. I make bricks that weigh about 5 #-dry them overnight in my Cabelas food dehydrator and store them..ready for an unseasonably warm day I can open hives and slip them in. These little pans were from the dollar store and are just the right size.

I am in my fleece pajamas...LOL Just ran out to take a photo in the greenhouse so you can see.


















These large pans work well, but they take a couple weeks to dry sitting out in the air.
These are sprinkled with dry bee pro:


















If you do it in a big pan, DON'T forget to cut into blocks when it is soft!
I did feed syrup August and Sept., but we had a warm late fall and some of the hives and nucs got a bit on the light side

They'll eat it at some point. I really don't care when they do. Just glad it's there when they want it. I don't mind the little bit of fuss ether. After being so busy with bees this summer, it shut off in a hurry and I miss it a bit.

If I put the moistened mix right in the hive, I use 3 cups vinegar to 25# fine sugar. Mix it in a 5 gallon bucket with paint mixer paddle and 1/2 drill. It is dry feeling and _very _soft. I scoop it onto newspaper right on top the frames. But be sure to have a good top entrance to let moisture escape and only apply it if the weather will be mild for a few days. I never have any problem with moisture and in a week it is pretty solid. When I dry bricks I use a quart of vinegar to 25# sugar. It is still quite dry, but will compact well in the trays. I will always sprinkle the top with dry bee pro. . It's funny, most of the bees near the top on warm days are small very young bees, They are all over it and very excited.










Here's a typical double nuc I put sugar on recently. Both the bottom and top box's are occupied with the cluster and the hive lifted too easily for my taste. I removed the old pollen patty, laid newspaper on the top bars, piled the slightly moistened sugar mix, inverted the top inner cover to accomodate the pile and put the lid back on..now it's ready to be left alone for a few winter months and I won't have to worry. (Remember, this was a fairly warm day and the bees were active)


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

> and a sprinkle of electrolytes


Have you considered using Brawndo? It has what bees need.

Are you placing the sugar over inner covers? 

Thanks for the pics (and the running to the greenhouse image)


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Sugar is right on the top bars. My screened inner covers are homemade so I have lots of room for feed. 3/4" on one side, 2 1/2" other if I invert it.
I've never heard of Brawndo, where can I find info? Thanks









(October photo)

Heres the electrolytes I like









get them from Valleyvet.com

If I was going to do the 5# bags like in the OP, I'd mix the electrolytes in the cider vinegar (It will fizz) mix and dump in the bag. I wouldn't personally do it that way though. I don't like the idea of all that empty room over the hive that would allow heat to rise so far above the cluster. You could covered the bag of sugar with a quilt, but why not just dump on the top bars and have less height?


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

"Brawndo" is from a stupid movie... Do a search 

It's nice that you haven't see it...


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

Brawndo 
it's like shaving your chest with a lawnmower! that sounds dangerous, but it's not more dangerous than drinking BRAWNDO because drinking BRAWNDO is like riding a pony, which probably sounds not dangerous except that the pony is 300 feet tall and covered in chainsaws! and to get on the pony, you have to take an elevator filled with 16 live cougars, which is an actual sport in latin america, which is extremely fun, but not as fun as BRAWNDO because BRAWNDO is like driving an ice cream truck full of angry bees through a petting zoo, which is a great way of becoming popular if you want to become popular with LAW ENFORCEMENT but if you don't, you should still drink BRAWNDO because BRAWNDO will make you use your fists for everyday tasks, like watching tv or romance or helicopter maintainence! it will also make you more awesome at english, which means you can use apostrophes whenever 'you w'an't to', even in words like 'nuclear', which don't even have an apostrophe yet!
BRAWNDO: It's Got What Plants CRAVE!!!


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## dnichols (May 28, 2012)

BeeCurious said:


> The "Mountain Camp" method is what Johannson had done 26 years before...


Haha I read the old thread about "mountain camp". Hey I think I will start a new method "Dnichols Sugar Bag method". :banana:

No I wouldn't do that. :lookout:


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

BeeCurious said:


> 26 years before Mountain Camp "Johannson" was pouring sugar over newsprint on topbars.


A rose by any other name smells just as sweet. 

Is it Mountain Camp or Johannson? Well...

_ABC and XYZ of Bee Culture/I], The A.I. Root Co., 1974, p. 284

"The writer remembers how in the early '70s A.I. Root fed coffee A sugar which is almost the same thing as our granulated white sugar. Here is what he said of it in Gleanings in Bee Culture for 1876, page 52.

We prefer loaf sugar or that sold at the grocers as "crushed sugar" for all purposes for feeding, and the process is so simple that we hardly know how to give the directions. If you wish to feed for stimulating, the least trouble is to put the lumps of sugar in the open air-protected from rain-but if you do not wish to feed your neighbor's bees, put the sugar on top of the frames under the quilt. In cold weather you must be careful to put the sugar directly over the cluster of bees or they can not get it; if the space under the cover is not large enough to admit the supply you give at once, put on an extra hoop._


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Michael Palmer said:


> In cold weather you must be careful to put the sugar directly over the cluster of bees or they can not get it;


How does this work? If you put the sugar on top of the cluster it will be under the honey in the fall. Will they eat the sugar and then move up to the honey or just ignore the sugar and go right up to the honey. Once they are above the sugar I don't think they will go back down to get it. Is that correct?


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

Acebird said:


> How does this work? If you put the sugar on top of the cluster it will be under the honey in the fall. Will they eat the sugar and then move up to the honey or just ignore the sugar and go right up to the honey. Once they are above the sugar I don't think they will go back down to get it. Is that correct?


If someone is placing sugar, fondant, or candy on hives there normally will not be any honey super in place.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

BeeCurious said:


> If someone is placing sugar, fondant, or candy on hives there normally will not be any honey super in place.


:scratch: Can't I go back to posts in the fall and find many people feeding these items? Are you saying there is no honey in the hive in the fall and people are doing this out of desperation to try and get through winter?
Or is this strictly emergency feeding in late winter or early spring where the bees would be right on the cover anyway?

I have a hive that I know is light and one that died out. I don't know if the light hive would be helped or hindered by using the honey frames from the dead hive because of the poop on the frames. We hit a cold crappy spell of weather right now so this won't be done for another week. Would the extra honey just induce brood rearing and cause starvation anyway?


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## julysun (Apr 25, 2012)

Vance G said:


> I personally like dried sugar or sugar bricks better than syrup in my operation. It is an insurance policy on top of any colony not weighing a safe amount. It is easily refilled at anytime during the winter that lasts forever. In the spring the sugar is easily removed because it is all turned into a sugar cube. Then it is easily turned into syrup when weather makes syrup usable by the bees. A lot of ways of doing things.


I like it! Now to work out how on a TBH.


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

Ace, the light hive will benefit from the honey frames provided there is enough of them. If there are 5 or more put them in the center of the box and pack the rest out with empty comb. They are unlikely to be sickened by the poop on the frames. If you want to make it easy on them, after you have arranged the frames in the deep you are adding bring it into the house for a few hours to warm up before you add it to the light colony. Scratch a couple of combs to let a little honey ooze as you add it to let them know what it is.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Adrian Quiney WI said:


> Ace, the light hive will benefit from the honey frames provided there is enough of them.


Wow! I don't remember writing what you referenced on Sunday and then I saw the year. It was last year however your comment is helpful for this year, a year later with a similar situation except this year we still have tons of snow and the cold.


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