# Robbing



## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

In my experience, once they start they don't stop. I lost several nucs to robbing because they wouldn't stop even after I tried to divert their attention with open feeding. I finally had to move the remainder of the nucs to another yard where there was more foraging opportunities for the big hives.


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## Seymore (May 1, 2009)

You CAN stop it but it is difficult and you must attend to it immediately. Here is a link to some great info on robbing. I've had to deal with it a number of times. I was successful with a nuc after I blocked the entrance completely for 2 or 3 days. I'd open it at night so it could breathe and would check it first thing in the a.m.; if I saw robbers - or even suspected them - I shut it down again. 

http://www.countryrubes.com/images/Robber_Bees.pdf


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## tommyt (Aug 7, 2010)

sfisher said:


> If I take the feeders away, will the robbing stop. Or will they start going after the honey?


 start going after the honey ??? 
If you have Honey why would you feed??:scratch:

I would reduce to a one two bee entrance
A very small entrance, If you can move them as stated I think it would stop faster


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## heus (Apr 16, 2012)

In my VERY limited experience I have found that nucs defend their entrance better than a regular size hive if the entrance is a 1" hole. Two weeks ago I made up a nuc and their were already bees guarding the entrance hole 10 minutes later. I had serious robbing going on two feet away at a double deep hive but nothing at my two nucs.


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## Keth Comollo (Nov 4, 2011)

My nucs have either a 7/8" hole (singles) or a 3/8" x 3" slot. Seems quite defendable since they are quite full of bees.


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## Seymore (May 1, 2009)

Yes, they WILL go after the honey. And you can lose your queen in the process.


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## Beregondo (Jun 21, 2011)

I had some robbing in a nuc the other day, so I made a 3/8" thick "U" shaped shim and covered it with window screen. I tacked it over the entrance as a robbing screen, and the robbing stopped after a day.

Here is a one minute vid of the screen with an explanation:


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## sfisher (Sep 22, 2009)

reducing the enterence doesnt work when you have 50 bees bum rushing the enterence, I have tried that. Yesturday I laid a piece of screen over the enterence and they moved that. I have screen bottom boards and I am wondering if I can completly shut the front door. High temps here will be in the upper 90's the next couple of days.


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## Seymore (May 1, 2009)

sfisher said:


> I laid a piece of screen over the enterence and they moved that. I have screen bottom boards and I am wondering if I can completly shut the front door.


Sfisher - that's what I did - completely closed it off. But I do have both inner and bottom screened boards. I also put a lid inside the hive with water in it. Water will become important. 

Like I said, I opened it at night when everyone was inside, which allowed any residents to get inside. And I got up very early to check on it to see if it had started again. I also rubbed Mentholatum around on the hive - can confuse the robbers but not the residents. I was throwing everything at them I could. Total blocking is what saved them - but I sure hated to do it with the heat. I would just check them frequently if possible. GOOD LUCK!


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## Seymore (May 1, 2009)

Oh yeah - I did read somewhere that you can drape a damp towel over the hive. Maybe put a pot in front so it won't close up the opening. The residents can get out and will reorient to find their new way in. The robbers will keep butting the front. With this heat, that may be the best way to go. I'll see if I can find where I read that...


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## Seymore (May 1, 2009)

Sf, wondering how the hive is looking tonight? Didn't really find anything good on the towel deal - just that it was an option. On my nuc, after I opened it back up, I did make the opening so small only 1 bee could fit through. I just stuffed it with straw and kept adding and spreading it out till I knew it was small enough. Last thought, I also held a screen in place with a brick once. But I've also seen people nail them on, or duct tape, push pins - anything to keep them in place. The screened entry would be good if you shut them down. Just a few more thoughts - I know how frustrating the battle can be.


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## sfisher (Sep 22, 2009)

They moved the screens again today. I will be able to open the nucs sunday morning and check damage. I dont have any 1/8" hardware cloth to make good robber screens with, but I do have some window screen to make temp. ones. I will do that tomorrow I plan to fill the hive top feeders with water, and give them a frame of honey. If the robber screens dont work, i will shut them up good.


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## sfisher (Sep 22, 2009)

Just went out and made two robber screens out of window screen. They came out nice and only took a hour, if that solves my problem I will kick myself for not doing it eatlier. Do they really work?


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## sammyjay (May 2, 2011)

I've had a hive that was getting robbed for its honey, so I doubt it would stop. I would put on a wet sheet(you're supposed to keep it wet, though I let it dry somewhat a few times and they lived. However, if it's hot I would keep it wet quite diligently) or a robber screen to stop the robbing. Sorry for telling you this even though you were already doing something about it, I did not read the thread except for the first post.


Nathan


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## Seymore (May 1, 2009)

sfisher said:


> Do they really work?


Hope so! You tell us.


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## sfisher (Sep 22, 2009)

Went into the nucs today, all the syrup was gone but the honey was intact. I put water in the hive top feeders, and robber screens on the front door. Then I had to remove one of the robber screens because that hive has a newly hatched queen, and I am afraid she wont be able to go on her matting flights, with the robber screen on. What do you think?


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## Seymore (May 1, 2009)

Anyone know that answer??? Sf - beyond my scope. How's the robbing? Maybe post again and ask that question specifically??


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## sfisher (Sep 22, 2009)

Went back out and saw some bees fighting at the nuc with no robber screen, and a virgin queen. So I am going to but the screen back on once it gets dark out. Does anyone think the virgin queen will be affected by the robber screen?


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

As long as the robber screen opening is large enough for her to pass through after mating, she should be fine.


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## krad1964 (Jun 4, 2011)

I've made a few robbers screens for nucs that are similar to these:

http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/8-FRM-MOVING-AND-ROBBING-SCREEN/productinfo/254MRS/

They work pretty well and it allows you to close it off with plenty of airflow. I have also used them on nucs that with virgin queens with no detectable issues.


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## Beregondo (Jun 21, 2011)

sfisher said:


> Does anyone think the virgin queen will be affected by the robber screen?


Yes, the effect is that it may save her life:

This last week, before I got the mating screens on my nucs, a queen returned form her mating flights in the middle of the "robbing war" going on at the entrance.
One of her wings was badly damaged as she passed through the melee at the entrance.

I found her dead on the ground the next morning.

Just like the workers, if the queen exits through the robbing screen, she will reorient and return to the hive the way she left.


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## sfisher (Sep 22, 2009)

The opening is large enough for her, I just noticed that on the other hive, it has beeen one whole day and nobody has really learned to use it yet. Im just worried she might miss a day, and I know her mating days are numbered.


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## sfisher (Sep 22, 2009)

Thanks for letting me know they work.


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## scdw43 (Aug 14, 2008)

Glad to hear that you stopped the robbing. I don't put anything in my syrup but sugar and water, it is important this time of year as plain sugar water has no smell. Things like HBH just ring the dinner bell for miles. I was in your neck of the woods last weekend in NMB. Granddaughters were in the Dance competition in MB.


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## BillS (Feb 2, 2005)

I also had a major robbing going on in a new nuc. First I reduced the opening to a 3/4" hole. No help at all. I tried putting a robbing screen on after it got dark to no avail, every one just went around it the next day. I finally moved them 200 feet away at night and put a leafy branch in front of the opening so they would reorient. That worked. The robbers have not found them, they keep looking at the old location. The nuc is looking ok and most important there are four sealed queen cells that are ok. I think next time I make up a nuc,I will hold off feeding for at least a few days so things can settle down.

Bill S


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## sfisher (Sep 22, 2009)

If you have a screen bottom board, do you think it matters as far as ventilation goes, if you completly close off the enterence of a nuc, for its first couple of days. And I'm talking about when its in the 90s outside.


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## tommyt (Aug 7, 2010)

I have to ask again ??
Why would you be feeding a hive that has Honey in it

As to your last question
Yes you can close them off with screen bottom board 
Why are you closing them off ??
I also feel if you put robbers screens in they will learn and use the new way out/in
If you keep changing that, That will confuse them and IMHO somewhat retard their growth


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

So much for the "feeding doesn't hurt anything" theory...

Robbing needs to be stopped ASAP. Stopping feeding will not be sufficient, but it may be a necessary first step. Unfortunately you can't just take away what started the robbing and expect it to stop. It's much easier to keep it from happening than it is to stop it once it starts.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesrobbing.htm


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## Solomon Parker (Dec 21, 2002)

My feeding theory is that there's no perfect way to do it. All options are fraught with dangers. So I try not to.

I have used robber screens. Their whole point is that robbers are after a scent whereas home bees know how to get into their own house. So let the scent out one place, let the bees out another. My queen castles (mating nucs) have them built in and also serve as ventilation.

Once it is happening and you do catch it, my method has been to let it finish, let the robbers get everything, then come in and do your repair work before the hive starves. Place some capped honey in and reduce entrances to one or two bees.

I imagine I don't catch it every time because I do lose a couple hives over the dearth in the summer. I guess they should have tried harder. Can't protect them from everything, so I hardly protect them from anything.


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## Seymore (May 1, 2009)

Michael, I reread your info on robbing (I can see I probably learned a lot of my tactics from reading that previously) and noted the part about reducing all hive entrances in the event of a dearth - which I think nearly everyone is in - ugh - including me. I had entrance reducers on all 3 hives - but at their widest opening, even for the nuc. No robbing issues as yet (since stopping one earlier this year). However, they were recently inspected and the inspector took them all off. I scratched my head and figured she knew best. I do have screened inner cover and bottom board. In your opinion, should I put them back on? I have felt before that this inspector does things to one hive because it is what is being done in another hive somewhere else - if you know what I'm saying. I wondered if that was the only reason she did it. I asked her why and she said as hot as it is they will burn up. I sorta felt I had as much of that covered as possible - including propped lids, even with screened inner.


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## Seymore (May 1, 2009)

Solomon Parker said:


> Once it is happening and you do catch it, my method has been to let it finish, let the robbers get everything, then come in and do your repair work before the hive starves. Place some capped honey in and reduce entrances to one or two bees.


Beg to differ here! What if he only has one hive??? Perhaps this is a case of what works for one won't work for another. Maybe your yards arent close enough to make it reasonable to try. But robbing can be stopped, it just takes some serious attention. I won't sacrifice my hive if I can keep from it.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

This time of year, I carry a 5 gallon pressurized water sprayer with me. Spraying the hive being robbed seems to stop the robbing (at least while I'm there). If the hive being robbed is close to my water hose, it gets doused!


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>However, they were recently inspected and the inspector took them all off. I scratched my head and figured she knew best. 

Why would you assume that? I would leave them all reduced. In this weather that might best be done with screen wire instead of wood...


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## Seymore (May 1, 2009)

Michael Bush said:


> >_"I scratched my head and figured she knew best."_
> Why would you assume that?


3 years of experience vs many, many years of experience. Thanks, I'll go put them back on. 

Good idea, snl!


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

In a small apiary, I've also stopped robbing by removing the lid on all the hives as the robbers needed to return to defend their own hive.


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## sfisher (Sep 22, 2009)

Tommy, it was a nuc that I made up and it had 1 frame of honey in it so nobody went hungry, because the nuc had no foragers. The feed was 1:1 syrup that I put on the nucs to get them to draw out frames, I put one undrawn frame in the nuc because I have no empty drawn out frames. I asked the question about closeing them because I want to start more nucs in the next month or so, and figured it would be a good way to start the nucs off, to prevent robbing. If you are going to start nucs without that many foragers in them I dont see how it would hurt to just shut them up for a couple of days.


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## Dave Warren (May 14, 2012)

I'm a new keeper, I think I might have robbers, but can't tell, I was watching the entrance last nite, and there were several fights between bees, some were gang attacks, which leads me to believe their robbers.
Also, I have black bee's, when I purchased my brood this spring, I was told they were Italians, but I've noticed several black bees or mutts, so my question is two fold! Could I have mutts, and are the ones being attacked robbers, since it is over 100 degrees here, lots O' bees are hanging out in front of the bottom entrance, so I assume their just hot!


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## Seymore (May 1, 2009)

Dave Warren said:


> since it is over 100 degrees here, lots O' bees are hanging out in front of the bottom entrance, so I assume their just hot!


Yes, called bearding - it allows better air movement inside. Don't know if bearding would be occurring if robbing were going on - not sure.


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## jhillard (May 31, 2012)

Sorry to hijack but I'm a first year and noticed this evening a few, maybe 3-4, outsiders trying to get in. My bees are significantly smaller than the intruders. However, my girls seem to be fending off the unwanted guests with ease. I'm fairly confident that I have strong hive (this is my only one and I'm in an urban setting). Started with a nuc in mid-April and have added 3 mediums to accomodate their growth. At what point should I start taking action, if any?


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

tommyt said:


> I have to ask again ??
> Why would you be feeding a hive that has Honey in it


Possible reasons: 

To keep the queen producing brood, to keep them producing wax, to keep them from being malnutritioned - they are reluctant to break into capped honey unless they have to. 

Bees that are malnutritioned all summer long are going to have a harder time fighting off diseases/parasites AND build up a healthy population of new bees to over winter.

Unfortunately feeding does cause robbing - so does excessive exposure of open hives. Last summer it was a big problem. This summer I've kept most inspections to a quick peak under the hood unless I suspect a problem - check for visible brood and honey along the top and plenty of bees, then close it up before trouble starts. Not an ideal inspection, but Less stress on the bees and not much robbing so far.


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## Seymore (May 1, 2009)

Jh, 3-4 outsiders being easily handled doesn't sound like a problem for a hive with 3+ mediums. Keep an eye on them and if a problem arises, come back and read this thread.


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## sfisher (Sep 22, 2009)

From what i have read jhillard you take action as soon as you see robbing taking place. But if your hive is holding its own, I dont know what you can do to help. Just make sure your enterence is reduced for sure.


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## sfisher (Sep 22, 2009)

David and Tommy, I answered the question about why I was feeding a nuc that has honey, in post #37.


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## tommyt (Aug 7, 2010)

Sfisher 
Thanks and I did read it.
I guess I should have replied then:s
Hope your bees have worked it out


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