# Mating inside a national park



## A'sPOPPY (Oct 13, 2010)

I have access to a 1 acre cemetary ( not park property ), I was thinking of maybe trying a few virgins here in the spring . Seeking your opinions ?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I don't know why you would think that this is better than anywhere else for mating. Or did you want them to stay virgins. I recommend putting them near another apiary.

I notice that it says Poppy's Bee's, Queen's and Honey. Does that mean you already grow queens and know something about doing so?


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## greengecko (Dec 16, 2008)

A'sPOPPY said:


> I have access to a 1 acre cemetary ( not park property ), I was thinking of maybe trying a few virgins here in the spring . Seeking your opinions ?


 I hope you are talking about beekeeping!


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## A'sPOPPY (Oct 13, 2010)

sqkcrk said:


> I don't know why you would think that this is better than anywhere else for mating. Or did you want them to stay virgins. I recommend putting them near another apiary.
> 
> I notice that it says Poppy's Bee's, Queen's and Honey. Does that mean you already grow queens and know something about doing so?


Yes, and in the interest of survivor genes I thought 63,000 acres couldn't hurt


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Are there any bees in the neighborhood? If not, what's the point?


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

In my senior year of high school I took my girlfriend to Yosemite Valley for spring break. It was a beautiful, romantic trip I will never forget. However, she only got pregnant after we graduated and lived in the city limits of Portland Oregon for the summer.


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## Countryboy (Feb 15, 2009)

You lost me. (Just as a FYI, the subject line is NOT part of the body of the thread.)

Are you wanting to set up a mating yard in a 1 acre cemetary?
Are you wanting to set up a mating yard in some national park? 
Are you wanting to set up a mating yard in a cemetary that is inside (or near) a national park, but not under the parks control?

Let me ask you this - will the hives be in eyesight from anyone on the public grounds? If so, how do you plan to deal with the vandalism that accompanies public property?


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## A'sPOPPY (Oct 13, 2010)

Sorry if no one took me serious. I thought 63,000 acres of hardwood forest with fringe meadows might contain some worthwhile survivor genes.


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## A'sPOPPY (Oct 13, 2010)

private (my family's) within the park


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## humbee (Dec 12, 2010)

poppy, your idea is right on. I took the first load of 24 full frame droneless nucs way out in the mountains of humboldt county Ca last summer and got 23 great Qs to start. And I'm watching those hives to see if there is any resistance to the many problems we all incur these days.
Feral drones might have genetics that are not found in main stream queen producers. Go for it :thumbsup:


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## Risky Beesness (Dec 29, 2010)

humbee said:


> poppy, your idea is right on. I took the first load of 24 full frame droneless nucs way out in the mountains of humboldt county Ca last summer and got 23 great Qs to start. And I'm watching those hives to see if there is any resistance to the many problems we all incur these days.
> Feral drones might have genetics that are not found in main stream queen producers. Go for it :thumbsup:


t: Better bee careful what you might run into in the backwoods of Humboldt county. 

A very good friend of mine is Curt of Curtis and David winery, there in Arcata. I was there a few years ago for his wedding. Beautiful country.

Sorry, back on topic.


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## jrbbees (Apr 4, 2010)

A'sPOPPY said:


> I have access to a 1 acre cemetary ( not park property ), I was thinking of maybe trying a few virgins here in the spring . Seeking your opinions ?


DON'T DO IT! 
I SAW THE MOVIE. THEY KILL YOU IN THE END. BUT YOUR HAND WITH THE KNIFE CRAWLS OFF IN THE DARK!

IT'S JUST A SETUP FOR A SEQUEL!

opcorn:


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## Humanbeeing (Nov 23, 2010)

I have all of Idaho to do the same thing you are doing. I know where there are three bee trees full of bees and I have hiked different places where I have found ferel bees foraging. I am going to put 20 to 30 breeder nucs out there this spring. To combat the vandels, I will strap them in trees. The boxes are already painted to blend in.
Of course it is a great idea to draw in DNA from wild bees and work with them to get the survivior traits. I am amazed that these "old timers" here didn't know that. But then again, us new guys with our crazy new ideas, just might help them in the long run. Stranger things have been known to happen.
Put you breeders in the grave yard. Good luck. I hope you get some good bees.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

A'sPOPPY said:


> I thought 63,000 acres of hardwood forest with fringe meadows might contain some worthwhile survivor genes.


It might. Tom Seeley found feral colonies in the Arnot forest. I don't know why you are asking here. It sounds like you already have the idea and the only way to find out is to try.


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## Buffalolick (Jan 26, 2010)

Great idea..I spoke with a large commercial Q breeder who did a similar thing. The real work seems to be in evaluating and then keeping the desired traits. Go for it.


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## Oldbee (Sep 25, 2006)

_"I am amazed that these "old timers" here didn't know that." _

:doh:I tried this once on a very small scale,..*one* mating nuc placed in a large public hunting ground. Unfortunately the hive/queen did not survive the first winter but that had nothing to do with the experiment. It was my error in overwintering preparation. Also, the area is not really isolated and I remembered later that there may have been managed colonies 6-8 miles away at a fruit/vegetable farm. You may have better luck from a vastly larger isolated area and [63,000 acres should do it,. ] with many more mating nucs. I have not tried this again. January-June, 2008 > http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=215307&highlight=wild+drones

_"Of course it is a great idea to draw in DNA from wild bees and work with them to get the survivior traits."_

I wouldn't get my hopes up too high. There may be many other variables that enable these "feral colonies" to survive. Bring them down to a level one can work them and five feet from each other, they may succumb to mites anyway.

_"But then again, us new guys with our crazy new ideas, just might help them in the long run." _

You're not so young yourself,..Humanbeeing.


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## hipbee (Sep 11, 2009)

your lucky to have legal access to such a place, I keep a few swarm traps painted camolage right dead center of the Great Smokey Mnt National park, I havent caught a swarm yet and I havent even thought about taking a nuc with a virgin in it up there. really good idea. I got the idea while backpacking and saw a devils walking stick covered with bees, I checked my map and there was a 10 mile radius of park around me and figured they have to be survivors from my ancestor Will Walker who kept bee gums in that area some 100 years ago.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

If there are a sufficient number of drones in the area to sufficiently mate w/ your queens then this could be a good idea. But, unless you have some idea that these drones aren't coming from a managed colony/s w/in flight distance your assumptions are just assumptions.

Where do drones from unmanaged colonies come from originally? Do you have any idea whether there are any unmanaged colonies in the area? Or how long they have been populated?

Good mating to you. Let us know how it works out.


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## Barry Digman (May 21, 2003)

When we take managed bees somewhere we're also taking whatever pests and diseases they're harboring along for the ride. I'm not sure the risk of inadvertantly introducing something that could damage a localized wild bee population is a good thing. Perhaps one of the reasons that the ferals, if indeed they're truly feral, are surviving is that they're somewhat isolated. From a long range standpoint it may be better to leave it that way. Something to at least consider.


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## slickbrightspear (Jan 9, 2009)

I say try it and see. I know there are lots of feral bees in todd county several of the loggers there call me when they run into honey bees to come and cut them out. my guess would be that there are ferals in the park as well poppy let me know how it works out.


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## hipbee (Sep 11, 2009)

that makes alot of sense barry, I would be devastated if i wiped out bees that were there along time before I came along. Im just going to keep trying to catch swarms there and If I do maybe just take splits with the original queen, make it kind of a semi managed feral colony and see how the ones in there original location do compared with the ones I take home. (so long as ranger rick dont catch me!) 
but i would say smokey the bear will probably find my camo nucs before ranger rick.

I have tryed bee lineing there but it is just to steep and thick to find there tree.


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## chillardbee (May 26, 2005)

I would check to see if there were any bees in the area first. If there is, I wouldn't consider any of them surviver stock until you could see that they could survive in your hives under your management. Sometimes people forget that feral hives survivership comes not because of there resistance to the mite but because they swarm, causing a massive break in the brood cycle. Breaks in the brood cycle is a good way to control the mite but counter productive to the beek who's going for bee or honey production.

On the other side of this is that if there is no other bees out there, you could use this as an isolated mating yard. you will need to select your drone mothers and raise drones by putting a couple of your worst drone combs into each of your drone mother hives. raise cells and give them to nucs that have had the drones screened out of them. 

Even if there is a few feral colonies in the area, by providing drone mother colonies in abundance your are greatly increasing the percentage of the desired drones your queens will mate with. Isolated mating yards are a rarity around here now a days.


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## scdw43 (Aug 14, 2008)

Try it, what can it hurt. Try a few queens to see what happens. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to evaluate a queen. As long as you don't put all your eggs in the same basket, it will not hurt a thing to try. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. People think they are buying purebred bees. The only way to track breeding of any living creature is to witness the breeding. How many queen breeders witness the breeding of the queens that they sell you. Drone saturation helps, but is just a way to increase the odds.


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