# Varroa Mite Treatment



## drlonzo (Apr 15, 2014)

Funny you'd mention the OA treatment being so costly. There is an alternative to the costliness. Cheaper as well. I was sent a PM by WWW on here showing how he used OA without paying the expense the first two years for the vaporizer. He created a shim for the top of the hive, then put plexy over it. The shim had a small hole the size of a pipe that he used. Great info in it.. Here's the youtube video.. 




It's the way I plan to do mine this year.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

labradorfarms said:


> Before anyone mentions Oxy vapor. I don't want to have to buy 200 bucks worth of stuff to treat,. So that's out!


$200? You can buy an OA vaporizer much cheaper. The OA itself is what $8 for 12 oz.. You use one gram per brood chamber, that's what, 10 cents? It does not harm brood, queen or bees and you can use it above 40f. 

So for about $150, you have a proven mite kill system that'll last you years and cost you far less than other treatments.......


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

I'll probably use the system my mentor uses: 50 ml of 50% formic acid on a paper towel pad, placed on top of frames. My mentor props the top cover open for extra ventilation, and puts a screened separator under the cover (I guess to stop robbing). This is stronger that the MiteAway formic acid treatment, and should get the job done in 24 hours. There have been some university studies on it and there are a lot of examples to be found on line.

Formic acid is the simplest organic acid, and vaporizes all by itself.

Needed materials are:

~50% formic acid solution
Paper towels
A 50-60 cc syringe
Screened separator (an empty quilt box, spacer with screen on it, double-screen board ...) 

The home biofuel making uses formic acid, and 90% solution can be had for about $12/liter, enough to make close to 40 treatments (you dilute 50:50 with water to get a little less than 50% solution).

Syringe: local ag supplier.

Depending on what you have on hand, you could probably get change back from a $20, or maybe you need to put together some screened spacers.

Or go the approved route and use Mite Away II pads.

Formic acid has been accepted in the US longer than OA.


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## WWW (Feb 6, 2011)

Phoebee,
Is a single pad 50 ml treatment for a 2 deep brood box hive? Thanks for sharing your knowledge on the subject as I have been looking for a simple to do procedure for treating with Formic. The OAV treatments are working great however I have always wanted to give Formic a try. These organic acids are fantastic for killing mites .


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## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

The European system for Formic Acid uses a reservoir and wick of filter paper. The cool thing about this system is the wick of paper is cut with scissors to match the exact temperature and broodnest size. The metering is much more precise than in the American pad system. 

The technology is obviously carefully calibrated, but with a little care a similar system could be home-built.


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## LeonardS (Mar 13, 2012)

Phoebee said:


> I'll probably use the system my mentor uses: 50 ml of 50% formic acid on a paper towel pad, placed on top of frames. My mentor props the top cover open for extra ventilation, and puts a screened separator under the cover (I guess to stop robbing). This is stronger that the MiteAway formic acid treatment, and should get the job done in 24 hours. There have been some university studies on it and there are a lot of examples to be found on line.
> 
> Formic acid is the simplest organic acid, and vaporizes all by itself.
> 
> ...


Doesn't the daytime temperature need to stay below 85 degrees when using Formic Acid? 

OP said he wanted a treatment he could use in hot weather.


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

WWW said:


> Phoebee,
> Is a single pad 50 ml treatment for a 2 deep brood box hive? Thanks for sharing your knowledge on the subject as I have been looking for a simple to do procedure for treating with Formic. The OAV treatments are working great however I have always wanted to give Formic a try. These organic acids are fantastic for killing mites .


Our mentor's method was probably passed on word of mouth ... exact provenance is unknown. Best to go to the source. West Virginia University has several papers out on their formic acid fumigator method, which is similar but seems to use slightly different (but simple) equipment and perhaps less emphasis on ventilation. They've got hard data I can't offer. This is a paper they did on a SARE grant but you can find others.

http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/varroa/FormicAcid.pdf

Forum participant "Challenger" revealed his source for formic acid at reasonable prices:

http://www.dudadiesel.com/choose_item.php?id=formic

According to the paper above, the temperature where the formic acid vaporizes is regulated by the bees to about 92 F, which should work so long as the outside air temperature is enough lower that the bees can control it.


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## John Davis (Apr 29, 2014)

Read the source info. Think about different hive volumes, 8 vs 10 frame, medium vs deep. The paper talks about quantities for single, single +medium and double deep. Do the math on volume, its not a straight line. Base dose to get the vapor concentration some additional to maintain it over the treatment time in the extra volume. One key part is to measure varroa levels before and after. Use data to adjust quantity or ventilation. Less is better than too much. Pay attention to the dangers of handling FA. Skin contact and breathing vapors are BAD.


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## WWW (Feb 6, 2011)

It seems one would need to be very careful with applying Formic since there are so many variables, All the good advice and info given above convinces me that OAV is pretty much fool proof, I will just stay with the OAV method of mite control .


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

WWW said:


> .... All the good advice and info given above convinces me that OAV is pretty much fool proof, I will just stay with the OAV method of mite control .


It pretty much is......Even Michael Bush contemplated using it at one time. Just don't get so excited that you forget to wear adequate protection!!!


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## popeye (Apr 21, 2013)

I used Apiguard this year. Look up their website.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Even Michael Bush contemplated using it at one time. 

I used it one year on some of the hives to measure the effectiveness of not only the OA but FGMO and small cell. I treated three times with the OA on the hives that I treated. I think that was 2002 or 2003. It looked like the OA vapor was killing between 90 and 95% of the Varroa and subsequent treatments would take 90 to 95% of what remained... I really didn't know so much about the microbes at that time...


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## Pinchecharlie (May 14, 2014)

I really didn't know so much about the microbes at that time...
Does this imply that the treatment may adversely effect the microbes in the hive or are you eluding to something else? I too am trying to make a treatment decision and having trouble deciding which would be the best, lest harmfull and effective


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## estreya (Apr 20, 2014)

I'm guessing there are many people, new to beekeeping this year, who are agonizing over treatment decisions right now. Toto, i've a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.

Pinchecharlie, i'm in the same boat. I've been sugar dusting while researching the various options ... let us know what you decide!


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Phoebee said:


> Needed materials are:
> 
> ~50% formic acid solution
> Paper towels
> ...


Don't forget the goggles, good rubber gloves (one pin hole can mean a bad burn), protective clothing, plenty of fresh water and a first aid kit. Formic is really nasty stuff that can cause serious burns or blindness if splashed in your eye. I used it for one year then switched to OA.


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## WWW (Feb 6, 2011)

I admittedly don't know much about microbes in the hive, I have never seen a study on this subject and my hives always respond positively to the OAV treatments. Surely if microbes were affected to whatever degree wouldn't they bounce back. If anyone has material that can be posted about this subject I would love to read it .


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## John Scifres (Mar 25, 2014)

Based on this thread, the main beesource recommended treatments are organic acids. Aren't there other options?


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## allan (Jul 7, 2013)

Here is a treatment for mite I have been using that I got from the fatbeeman 

mix 1/2 teaspoon of red thyme oil and 16 oz of mineral oil and place a paper towel on the top bar of the hive then squirt some of the red thyme and mineral oil on the paper towel in a s shape just to wet the towel good


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

In some areas and some strains of bees probably don't need anything extremely efficient to keep the mites below economic or lethal thresholds. Some other combinations of bees, climate, location etc., seem to need proactive treatment with proven effective methods. Mite treatment coming into the fall may be do or die. If you miss the window of opportunity dithering or experimenting......................!


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## GaryG74 (Apr 9, 2014)

Directions on Mite Away Quick Strips says Temps below 85F first day, below 95F rest of treatment period or excessive brood loss and/or absconding may occur. I'm waiting now for the next week's 95 plus temps to go by so I can treat with MAQSs. I've had some queen problems with MAQSs in the past when heat index/high temps occurred during treatment. Don't want that again--lost a couple of queens last year.


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## Eddie Honey (May 30, 2011)

I make bio-diesel to fuel my trucks and HHO. Formic acid is not used. What are they using formic for in bio-fuel making? I use sulfuric acid, NaOH , and methanol to complete the transesterification process.



Phoebee said:


> I'll probably use the system my mentor uses: 50 ml of 50% formic acid on a paper towel pad, placed on top of frames. My mentor props the top cover open for extra ventilation, and puts a screened separator under the cover (I guess to stop robbing). This is stronger that the MiteAway formic acid treatment, and should get the job done in 24 hours. There have been some university studies on it and there are a lot of examples to be found on line.
> 
> Formic acid is the simplest organic acid, and vaporizes all by itself.
> 
> ...


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## greasydog26 (Apr 11, 2014)

Where does one find the OA and formic to purchase?


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

greasydog26 said:


> Where does one find the OA and formic to purchase?


Can't help you with formic. But you can find OA on Ebay, at Ace Hardware (where it is known as wood bleach) and Amazon........I'm sure you can find it other places with just a google search............


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## Hokie Bee Daddy (Apr 1, 2011)

popeye said:


> I used Apiguard this year. Look up their website.


Apiguard is underappreciated. It works great, it's easy to handle with no special protective equipment, when you buy it by the tub it's reasonably priced, no pesticides with a long half-life to contaminate the comb, will evaporate from the hive reasonably quickly, and no appreciable disruption of the queen. I will treat with formic in the spring before it gets hot but when summer hits Apiguard is my treatment of choice.


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## Hokie Bee Daddy (Apr 1, 2011)

allan said:


> Here is a treatment for mite I have been using that I got from the fatbeeman
> 
> mix 1/2 teaspoon of red thyme oil and 16 oz of mineral oil and place a paper towel on the top bar of the hive then squirt some of the red thyme and mineral oil on the paper towel in a s shape just to wet the towel good


Allan, how often do you treat like this? Has anyone tested to see what the actual kill rate is? This seems like a very good recipe.


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

The packaged way of getting formic acid is to buy MiteAway Quick Strips.

Challenger told me he gets formic acid in bottles here:

http://www.dudadiesel.com/choose_item.php?id=formic

It is used for making biodiesel. I just got a bottle in yesterday.

Many guides to using formic acid are out there, but here's an example from a university study:

http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/varroa/FormicAcid.pdf


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

Eddie Honey said:


> I make bio-diesel to fuel my trucks and HHO. Formic acid is not used. What are they using formic for in bio-fuel making? I use sulfuric acid, NaOH , and methanol to complete the transesterification process.


Apparently you use formic acid to convert wood waste products into biodiesel. I have not looked in to using it for that, but that market makes it available for us quite cheaply.

OA is also the active ingredient in Barkeeper's Friend: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_Keepers_Friend


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## greasydog26 (Apr 11, 2014)

Any recommendations on purchasing an OA vaporizer


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

greasydog26 said:


> Any recommendations on purchasing an OA vaporizer


Yes, either the Varrocleaner or Varrox Vaporizer from OxaVap.com


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## Robbin (May 26, 2013)

greasydog26 said:


> Any recommendations on purchasing an OA vaporizer


I have two, one is the Varrocleaner from OxaVap, and I prefer that one. I use both, allowing one to cool in a hive while starting the next one in the next hive.


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

I got the chance to try formic acid on one hive over the weekend. I used the method documented in the link I've posted above, a SARE grant project thru WVU.

http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/varroa/FormicAcid.pdf

Instead of their fumigator, I used an inverted quilt box (about 2.5" high 8-frame box with #8 hardware cloth about 3/4" from the top). I laid several sheets of paper towel on that. I removed the honey supers, and put the quilt box/fumigator right above the upper brood box, and the telescoping top cover above that. A clean IPM board coated with veggie spray was placed under the SBB and the vents on the SBB were blocked off. I used the 3" entrance reducer. The hive was 3 8-frame deeps, heavily populated.

I mixed formic acid and water 50:50 (my hydrometer won't measure the target SG range so I just went by volume). I added HBH per their directions. This gives closer to 40% formic acid. The HBH supposedly reduces the chances that the bees will ball the queen in this stinky procedure.

The bees recoiled from the formic acid mix when it was first applied. They bearded heavily out the front entrance attempting to get away from it. Bearding was significantly reduced after 6 hours as the vapors dissipated. By the following morning they were looking a bit annoyed by the entrance reducer but had resumed normal activity.

After 24 hours I removed the IPM board for a count of the dropped mites, and removed the fumigator box and the entrance reducer and vent plugs.

A bit of background: the mite load of this hive was expected to be around 1% based on several powdered sugar rolls that returned 2-4 mites. But the hive has been producing weekly drops onto the IPM board as high as 191 mites. The discrepancy was making me doubt my sanity, but I was hoping the high drop was due to the "varroa sensitive hygenic" nature of the new queen introduced in June. We did, in fact, finally spot her, fat and sassy, just before the treatment.

The treatment is supposed to kill 80-90% of the mites. The first day of drop should be mostly from adult bees. Formic acid also kills mites in capped brood, so the high drop will continue for over a week. The paper shows 1-week drops from heavily infested hives of 4000 mites or more.

My 24-hour drop was 379 mites. Assuming that many more over the next week, total load was probably indeed around 1%, as the sugar rolls suggested

Six mites dropped into a dry oil tray while the count was going on. All were stone cold dead. Normally I'd have seen a few still crawling if dropped on a dry tray.

Smell: straight from the bottle, the 90% formic acid is powerful stuff, but a wiff is very similar to glacial acetic acid (distillate of vinegar). Diluted it is more tolerable but still strong. With the HBH it is still potent but better.

The main reason I'd think you would go for this treatment is the cost of the apparatus. OA requires a heated vaporizer. It is probably dandy once you have that, but for those of us with two hives, the cost of admission to FA is lower. 

I reserve judgement until I find out of my hoity-toity VSH queen is still fat, sassy, barefoot, and pregnant and cranking out brood like she has all summer.


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## greasydog26 (Apr 11, 2014)

Phoebee, where did you get your VSH queen at? I have been looking for next year splits and was just curious. Are your mite loads smaller then in your other hives without VSH queens, assuming you have any?


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

The VSH queen was a gift from our mentor. She's the daughter of one he got from a Virginia queen breeder. The one we have was bred locally with the darndest mix of no-account drones, some of them Russians, so no telling what genetics the daughter really has. 

You interested in maybe swapping some bees next year? Our apiary is in WV, but way over in Mineral County. I'm desperately trying to raise a queen by pulling a few frames from her hive and building a nuc, though this late in the year it is a hail mary pass. We're not bee breeders but this particular girl may be worth giving it a try next year when queen cells start showing up.

Our other hive has an Olivarez "hygenic" Carniolan. Her hive has an exceptionally low mite count (zero on the last roll, but usually 2) and drops maybe 14 mites a week. However, she appears to be running out steam just when she needs to be raising winter bees. Hence the attempt to breed a replacement. If the Carniolan hive can superceed her and make it thru the winter, and the successor can hang in there longer, this line may be worth keeping alive as well.


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