# BY-product of CCD???



## Walliebee (Nov 17, 2006)

I'm not a remover so I can't add anything to that, but I was wondering if you would elaborate your thoughts. 

Absconding bees from CCD and unsettled swarms???


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

I would like to add something to "By-product of CCD".
Sorry it doesn’t answer iddee's question, but somehow maybe it relevant.

My observations of local bee forage show a very strong decline in ANYTHING that blooms. Seems most (almost all) flowers of any kind was destroyed by the April freeze that hit the Midwest AFTER an unseasonable warm period brought EVERYTHING into premature development.

Three strong honey producers, black locus, blackberry, and tulip poplar are NON-existent in my area this year. Cultivated ornamental flowers are doing very poorly. My vegetable garden hasn’t produced in the last 3 years anywhere near the crops I use to see. Yesterday, I saw my FIRST foraging bee (on Dutch clover). Something is wrong!

Will this "produce" more CCD?


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

It's hard to elaborate when all I have are questions. Swarms just don't seem to be staying put. Either they are moving on, or just dispersing and dieing. 

Or something else??

I have a call that says a swarm moved in the day before. I go and find the bees gone with a few stragglers at the most left in the area

It is happening nearly daily. So often that I refuse to go on a call now until 48 hours after they are seen for the first time.


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

iddee . . .

Are you getting swarm calls at the same "rate" as in the past.


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

Last year they started last of Feb. or first of Mar. This year they started last week. For the last week to ten days they have been one to two daily.
The weather has not been conducive to swarming until now.


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## simplyhoney (Sep 14, 2004)

iddee,

I am so glad that you mentioned this. Last year in S. New Mexico I was getting 2-4 swarm calls a day. We are africanized in Deming and I figured that with a very wet spring on the desert the african hives, that are very prone to swarm anyway, were getting after it. But many of the swarms didn't have african characteristics (ie. mean, small and agitated, and color) All of the swarms were relativly small. And the ones that I could easily hive wouldn't stay put. Not even if I kept them in the dark for a couple of days. I noticed that my colonies that had just come back from the almonds were showing signs of swarming with swarm cells in about 1 out of 3. I split the brood chamber with a shallow super and smashed cells as much as possible. There was no honey flow at this time and usually on the colonies that were big but had not built cells yet this extra room in the middle will prevent swarming especially in the absence of a honey flow. Many of them still seemed to loose population due to swarming (ie you would see a hatched queen cell and a noticable decline in population) 
Anyway I chalked it up to being behind, But the bees kept making cells. Almost every time I was in them through the summer I would see about 1 out 3 (and not the same 1 out 3 as before) that had queen cells either chewed out, hatched or both. 
I Lost half to suspected ccd and I think your question has merit.
MY VERY VERY HUMBLE theory:

CCd is caused by a spore or bacteria (perhaps a chemical, but it seems to have been contagious) that produces a toxic condition in the hive. It was spread in California in 2006, perhaps from the import of aussie bees (perhaps not). The condition causes older adult forage bees to become sick ,the queen include. She starts to lay very poorly, the toxicity causes various brood problems (or perhaps the queen is passing it along) and as the brood has problems the population starts to decline. In addition, adult bees that are affected are lost in the field as a result of navigation failure or die out the hive for a reason not yet know. Many bees in the hive realize the problem that there is a toxin present these bees form swarms, build a new queen and leave, many times with the virgin queen. The bees that do stay try and try to requeen because the original mother is sick and they see it as her going bad. I think that wet conditions have something to do with culturing this bacteria/mold/spore whatever. (It was fairly common factor for me) If you let the affected equipment air out in a dry climate for several weeks ,irradiate the equipment, or shake the bees onto new equipent. The bees seem to be happy again.
I know I've talked alot about ccd on beesource, and my bees seem to be rebounding, but I do like to understand problems before I forget about them.


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

simply honey adds:
And the ones that I could easily hive wouldn't stay put.

tecumseh replies:
same here.... and it didn't seem to matter if I put them on foundation, drawn comb or added a frame of brood. almost all would set a day and then be gone...

another odditity was that (some years back) when I would get calls on swarms if I did not respond in 24 hours the swarm would ALWAYS be gone and now I seem to see a great many swarms hang up on limb for weeks... it is almost like that can not make up their collective minds as to where to go???


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

I have been on 5 more calls this week where a swarm moved into a building. All 5 stayed a day or two and left. Not one has stayed. It is strange, to say the least.


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## Ron Young (Aug 16, 2006)

I told you of the one that was reported to be in a tree. I went to look at it and they were gone, with only a few field bees coming in to find the colony gone. They went for four days and nothing, and they now are saying that they are back?? I am not sure if this is possibly an after swarm from the area colony, or if it is totally different? It is wierd though.


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## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

well this is beekeeping so I'm going to disagree
my best hive (which I got from iddee) swarmed and moved into my neighbors house through a drier vent
I'm trapping them out now, I would have been happy if they had CCDed on outta here
my observation hive absconded and clustered up in a willow in the yard and I caught em

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozxnjiky_mU

they're now happily in a box and drawing comb like crazy
we ain't got no stinkin CCD round here

Dave


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

Of course it's that way at your house. You don't think I would sell you sick bees, do you?  You've got the best bees that can be found.


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## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

iddee

they are indeed a sight to behold
they threw a swarm and an afterswarm
they still have more entrance activity than my other hives
I hate I didn't get ahead of em enough to stop em but they were way more than I was expecting
I'll know better next year
are you usually successful at preventing swarms at home?
if not, do you have problems with em getting in neighbors houses?
I was hoping they'd go farther away

Dave


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## Bee (Jan 17, 2007)

Drobbins

Thanks for shareing that. *What a lot of work.*
I can see where the $50.00 or so comes in to catch a swarm.


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## jim b (Oct 3, 2004)

*swarm took off before i got there*

>Has any other removers noticed this, or is it just me?

I recieved the call Friday afternoon and they were gone Saturday morning. However, i do not know exactly how long they had been there, but indications were that it had been one day, maybe two.
-j


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