# Ultrasonic waves againts varroa



## erlaita (Jan 17, 2015)

Hello,
I have seen that a German is preparing a system for the use of ultrasound against varroa: 15kHz and 90dB

http://www.varroa-sound.de

Do you know anything else about this?


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

From their web page - "With the "Varroa Killer sound", the beehives are treated with high-frequency sound (about 15,000 hertz with 90 decibels) over a period of 25 to max. 30 days. After this, the beehive is almost free of Varroa. This frequency is unaffected and undisturbing for the bees.
The varro-membranes are extremely disturbed in their food intake. The sound acts on the central nervous system of the varroa mite, so that the old mites die within 10-20 days. The sound also acts in the brood, the juveniles (young mites) die in the brood cell within 1-2 days. The adult Varroa in the brood are so disturbed that the multiplication no longer takes place and dies. After 25 days, the hives are almost healthy.
The "Varroa Killer sound" should be used twice a year
Ideal time from February to mid April and July / August
Important: always treat as a rule (because of reinfection)"


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## Swampsquash (Oct 25, 2014)

Wow crazy! I'm a bit skeptical, but I REALLY hope I'm wrong and this works!


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## beefarmer (May 2, 2010)

Do you have to put a sound box on each hive, or will 1 in a beeyard cover many hives ? that sounds crazy, maybe it'll work.


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## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

You need one box for every hive to prevent reinfestation..

If this works it would be the best of treatments and a real revolution even with the investment.

It will not produce resistant bees though.


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## Steve in PA (Jan 26, 2015)

Should be easy enough to build one at home to try. If you are curious about what 15khz sounds like here's a page with sound samples. My dog couldn't leave quick enough when i tried it out. http://www.noiseaddicts.com/2009/03/can-you-hear-this-hearing-test/


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## R_V (Aug 20, 2016)

I guess I'm half deaf. But my dogs aren't. If I put those in hives in my back yard I think my dogs would go insane.


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## Delta 21 (Mar 4, 2016)

I found an Indigogo page but its all in German as well. AH! Its in English at the bottom!

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/varroa-killer-sound#/

For $82 unit, thats cheaper than a OAV wand and I could just bounce one between my 3 hives as part of routine management. 

They are falling short of their goal with less than 10% raised. Does this thing work?


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## texanbelchers (Aug 4, 2014)

I used to be able to hear that...

I wonder what frequency we'd need for SHB? :scratch:


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Delta 21 said:


> Does this thing work?


Most likely not. 

If those who do give it a try report back in time we'll have a better idea.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

I think the website says people with good hearing or young children will probably be able to hear it.... I don't think I fall into either of those categories, I have one on order, I'll let everyone know how it works. The only thing that I don't see as feasible is the treatment time and you need a unit per hive, so it's not really cost effective to get a unit per hive.


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## rolftonbees (Jul 10, 2014)

I am sure the carriage mites in my area will prove to be hearing impaired. The moles and shrews all are.


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## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)

It just skimming money from people. That idea is about 30 years old...see: http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...eper-from-South-Germany&p=1505525#post1505525


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## Tim B (Apr 16, 2009)

Steve in PA said:


> Should be easy enough to build one at home to try. If you are curious about what 15khz sounds like here's a page with sound samples. My dog couldn't leave quick enough when i tried it out. http://www.noiseaddicts.com/2009/03/can-you-hear-this-hearing-test/


Interesting reaction from dog. Maybe it would repel mice, skunks and bears? What about hive beetles? That would be big for a lot of beekeepers.


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## Fivej (Apr 4, 2016)

They sure didn't work on my mice and bats. I will be awaiting results from those on the site that took the bait.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

I remember back in the 80's some folks were accusing the Soviets of controlling people by broadcasting very low frequency sound waves that propagated throughout all the continents.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

shinbone said:


> I remember back in the 80's some folks were accusing the Soviets of controlling people by broadcasting very low frequency sound waves that propagated throughout all the continents.


Maybe they're still doing it. Some say we are becoming more like them.

They also don't have mites on their Russian bees. It must work!


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

If someone wants to see if they work, just go on Amazon and buy one of the darned things and decide for yourself.
https://www.amazon.com/Ultrasonic-P...spons&keywords=ultrasonic+pest+repeller&psc=1
My guess is they work about as well as the deer sirens you put on your cars, designed to somehow convince a deer from running onto the road in front of the already noisy vehicle you are driving. Mostly these devices work well for the people that figure a way to market them.


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## BadBeeKeeper (Jan 24, 2015)

JRG13 said:


> I think the website says people with good hearing or young children will probably be able to hear it.... I don't think I fall into either of those categories, I have one on order, I'll let everyone know how it works. The only thing that I don't see as feasible is the treatment time and you need a unit per hive, so it's not really cost effective to get a unit per hive.


All you need is an .mp3 file of the sound, a cheap MP3 player with the file set to loop, and some cheap battery operated speakers...wire the devices to a battery + solar panel to keep it running for the necessary amount of time...I could build it for nothing out of spare bits in my garage...if I was curious enough to waste the time...



Tim B said:


> Interesting reaction from dog. Maybe it would repel mice, skunks and bears? What about hive beetles? That would be big for a lot of beekeepers.


My dog ran for the door, barking like she does just before my wife gets home...now I know how she knows. (She usually goes to the door and barks about two minutes before the wife's car comes down the drive.)



shinbone said:


> I remember back in the 80's some folks were accusing the Soviets of controlling people by broadcasting very low frequency sound waves that propagated throughout all the continents.


LOL, I have some personal knowledge of certain experiments the US military conducted with LF sound...:shhhh: (Didn't work all that well.)



FlowerPlanter said:


> Maybe they're still doing it. Some say we are becoming more like them.


An unfortunate consequence of ending McCarthyism. The reds have been sneaking in the back door of the White House.



> They also don't have mites on their Russian bees. It must work!


And I snap my fingers to keep the tigers away. It has been one hundred percent effective, in over 30 years of doing it, I have never been attacked by a tiger.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

BadBeeKeeper said:


> An unfortunate consequence of ending McCarthyism. The reds have been sneaking in the back door of the White House.


Ha very funny! 

The rest of the world watches in awe!


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## Black and Amber (Jun 2, 2003)

It is doing the rounds on facebook right now with video, it knocked down 3 mites in 24 hrs, if you fart into the hive entrance you should get more than that!!


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## Cloverdale (Mar 26, 2012)

Black and Amber said:


> It is doing the rounds on facebook right now with video, it knocked down 3 mites in 24 hrs, if you fart into the hive entrance you should get more than that!!


 That about explains it! :lpf:


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## Cloverdale (Mar 26, 2012)

Check out the Bee-l archives this was talked about a few months ago. I think the irish guy Black and Amber pretty well summed it up!


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## BuzzTech (Jul 1, 2017)

We have purchased a couple of these devices and are going to trial them in a couple of hives that have shown resistance to the MAQS treatments this autumn.
The trial is done in comparison to two re-treated hives with Apivar and two untreated hives.
I am going to pick up a deep cycle battery tomorrow from a friend of mine to power these two units for 28 days.
For some reason I believe this could really be a 'treatment' that could work without having to use chemicals or 'organic' acids.
Results will be posted as they come.


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## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)

Good luck.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

So is it Autumn time there yet?
Curious to know how the ultrasonic wave devices work out for you.
Yep, who said that there is no such thing as hives resistance to MAQS. Pretty soon the
OAV will not work anymore if using MAQS cannot get rid of them. I'll resort to tf with resistant bees for now.


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## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...icle-of-a-beekeeper-from-South-Germany/page34

# 676


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

If you've ever watched Little Rascals (the original series) you'd know that when Alfalfa sings it'd kill varroa mites.


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## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

I like to test this myself because I do not trust someone selling chemical treatment equipment to be neutral about the testing. (Dr. Liebig)


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

If ultrasonic waves do not work then what about using infrared on the cap broods?
You think it might be too hot on the developing bee larvae? Maybe the mites cannot stand that much
heat.


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## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

I just want to know if this works because it´s without the use of chemicals.

The constructor claims it will change or stop the reproduction of the mites.

It´s not changing any approach to have more resistant bees sometimes in future.

Without ferals we ,in our locations, have to try to keep alive bee hives to introduce more resistant queens. We have to purchase bee colonies, no swarms to be caught.

New colonies are not here for us for free so we have to do some IPM to have bees left to expand.

It´s either that unit or the use of thymol or oxalic acid.

My own hives are not in jeopardy just now. Two out of 13 are infested but so far hold it in bay and are not virus affected. Maybe they even are the best because they bite mites and do VSH.

Still I´m sacrificing this colony to the unit to learn about the effects and probably help others lending it to them in future. 

It would be great if this works. It´s so easy to use and the costs are amortizised in three years compared to chemical treatments. No residues in the wax also, but what will happen to the microfauna I don´t know.

And I´m in contact with the constructor to tell him my experience. He is a seasoned beekeeper himself, with a high class bee education.



> it knocked down 3 mites in 24 hrs


Prejudice, opinions and anecdotes, like the fear of the other side loosing profits, stops research like that.
If you would have read the instructions, Black and Amber, and not be addicted to anecdotal posts on Facebook, you would probably know that 24 hours are not sufficient. OA will kill the mites the first minutes?


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

beepro said:


> If ultrasonic waves do not work then what about using infrared on the cap broods?
> You think it might be too hot on the developing bee larvae? Maybe the mites cannot stand that much
> heat.


A common "heat lamp" is a fine example of an infrared emitter. 

Not much point worrying about the effect of infrared radiation on varroa or developing bee larva _inside_ capped cells. Instead, worry about the effect of infrared radiation on the wax caps/comb itself!


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

Oldtimer said:


> Ha very funny!
> 
> The rest of the world watches in awe!


Awe? Wide range of reactions here, guess a little more distance is required for awe.


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## erlaita (Jan 17, 2015)

BuzzTech said:


> (07-01-2017) We have purchased a couple of these devices and are going to trial them in a couple of hives that have shown resistance to the MAQS treatments this autumn.
> The trial is done in comparison to two re-treated hives with Apivar and two untreated hives.
> I am going to pick up a deep cycle battery tomorrow from a friend of mine to power these two units for 28 days.
> For some reason I believe this could really be a 'treatment' that could work without having to use chemicals or 'organic' acids.
> Results will be posted as they come.


Something new? Did you try the ultrasounds?


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## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

I tried them on two hives. 
It did not work. They crashed.


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## dudelt (Mar 18, 2013)

I would think that sound waves would only be a deterrent to animals that could actually hear them. I have never read anything that states varroa has ears or could hear anything.


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## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

dudelt said:


> I would think that sound waves would only be a deterrent to animals that could actually hear them. I have never read anything that states varroa has ears or could hear anything.


No it´s working as a thermal effect.


> Effect ultrasound
> By acting on the body ultrasound it comes in the tissue to a mechanical and thermal effect. ... The thermal effect is created by the sound absorption of the body's own tissue.
> Wiki


There was something happening in the hive, but they already had an infestation of 200-300 mites dropping a day. August it was.
I did not try again because I´m tf and don´t want to treat the whole year with a device, never knowing the bee´s own defense. It would have been a prophylactic treatment. I want to avoid this.
The bees were not affected, but they bred and bred and bred until they lost all long life energy. They did this to substitute the weak bees which were already virus infested.
The mites were killed by + - 30% in my eyes. The company claims it will disturb the mite brood cycle. Can be if you use it all year round, but the unit is expensive.


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## little_john (Aug 4, 2014)

dudelt said:


> I would think that sound waves would only be a deterrent to animals that could actually hear them. I have never read anything that states varroa has ears or could hear anything.


Bees don't have ears - but can 'hear' sounds ok. It's all about sensing vibrations. Mammalian ears are specialised organs which convert and amplify sound/pressure waves into neuronal signals via a tympanic membrane etc. In contrast, bees have antennae - with tens of thousands of cells along their length, performing all sorts of functions - most of which are well beyond our current comprehension. 

Dunno about the mites - but wouldn't it be great if they *did* respond to stimuli that the bees ignore ? Anything and everything's worth trying imo - sound waves, magnetism - even garlic or a dose of Wagner - but then there's always a need to beware the snake oil salesmen where money is concerned ...
LJ


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## erlaita (Jan 17, 2015)

I hope to try it next spring. But I do not know why the seller does not answer me, when I asked him if my 12V 45Ah battery is valid, because nowhere have I seen if that battery that appears in his photos is 6V or 12V. 
I like to try the snake oil once, and then make things very clear to the seller


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## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

It has to be put directly on brood combs and does not work from the top with honey supers on or honey domes or wax bridges.
It needs 3 weeks to have a result, then it must be recharged and used again for 3 weeks in a row.
In the meantime the hive must be left undisturbed, which means in spring you are not able to check for swarm urge and in summer the bees starve if you take away the honey supers.
If the part which sends the waves is covered with propolis it does not work.



> but wouldn't it be great if they did respond to stimuli that the bees ignore ?


Sure, that would be great, much better than chemicals and much better than any organic treatment.
But it must be practical too.

You see here how I used it :
https://www.beesource.com/forums/sh...icle-of-a-beekeeper-from-South-Germany/page34
#676


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