# TBH-Hybrid, Long Lang Advice Needed Pretty Please :)



## ldygardener (Jun 8, 2010)

So I love my TBH there are however things I want to have differently. I want a screened bottom board and the ability to put in a SHB trap. I want to be able to easily place a feeder or a pattie without having to jerry-rig something. In short I want access to the bells and whistles of langs.

So I want something that is basically 2 langs long, one lang wide on legs. I want separate inner covers and tops for each section, but ideally one screened bottom board for the entire hive. I want the ability also to place a super on top if they are filling up so that they have plenty of stores available. I want to use top bars but with sides I think so that the bees don't attach their comb to the square sides of the. 

Does that sounds nuts? Is there already such a creature with plans available? Could I buy unassembeled lang pieces to create such a monster?

I'm blessed in that I have a talented woodworker available to me, however he requires a plan to follow that doesn't involve me pointing at various pictures saying add that to this, this to that, nail that here...


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## Ramona (Apr 26, 2008)

You could do a long box with lang frames which is just like a 2 deep lang only horizontal instead of vertical. It will be very heavy and not easily moveable and you probably won't see the bottom board very often but it would be easy to build and super. Run open Lang frames foundationless - the bees will build natural comb without attachments to side walls as all attachments will be within the frames.

You could also run standard vertical langs with foundationless frames. You can easily super, you'll have some lifting but the overall unit will be more portable. Either configuration can sit on the stand of your choice. 

There are plans on beesource for hive bodies - just follow the Lang plan for the long box and make inner long dimension twice as long. I would buy unassembled lang frames unless your woodworker really likes having a project.

Ramona


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## Paul McCarty (Mar 30, 2011)

I run about a dozen hives very similar to what you have described. Mine are normally 3-4 boxes long. Your standard 48" stud makes a good side board. They work decent enough for me, just make sure you split up the roof so you can super it if need bee, or add a feeding shim. My latest ones are a bit shorter - the equivalent of 3 eight frame deeps. I have found they rarely fill the 48" long boxes all the way. You will have to cull honey and brood comb from them as the season goes so that they will continue to draw comb and expand - otherwise they simply stop and swarm. I use a mix of PF 105 frames and foundationless. The only problem is you have to scoot the frames to make a bit of a gap to withdraw the frame you want to inspect. A bit of a pain, but not too bad. The commercial guys would hate them because they take a bit more diligence and you can't just toss them around all over the place.

I like them, they are pretty productive if done right, but take a bit of a watchful eye. A once a week check is warranted. Mine are on short legs and have closable entrance doors. They are fairly portable unless jammed with bees and honey. Even then, they can be handled by a couple of people and put in a pick-up truck relatively easily. I have found the screened bottom boards to be un-needed. A few strategic vent holes and a mid-summer brood break works for me.


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## Che Guebuddha (Feb 4, 2012)

Check Dennis Murrell's site;
http://bwrangler.litarium.com/combo-long-hive/


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## ch.cool (Aug 22, 2012)

I'm thinking about building a long Lang but decision is not made jet how. I'm still thinking about that the bees naturally want build up and down? I came across this: http://www.beebehavior.com/modified_european_long_hive.php
http://www.omlet.us/products_services/products_services.php?cat=Beehaus
Building something like this, are my preferred plans.
If you come up with a better plan, let me know.

ch.cool


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## ldygardener (Jun 8, 2010)

That is nice, my only concern for using deeps is the weight on the comb. This year was my first year with a tbh and we had a horribly hot spell some of the comb that was so full of honey detached from the top bar, what a mess that was to clean up. So, are there foundationless frames in that hive, I especially wonder with it being deep. This hive http://thegardendiaries.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/017.jpg won at the MD state fair this year and they are selling it, patent pending. I'm going to see a beekeeper that has purchased one of these this weekend. I don't know that I would buy one but as they are very pricey http://thomashybridhive.com/ but the concept might be all the lines I'm looking for. I'll report back hopefully with more information this weekend!


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## Marsh (Aug 17, 2010)

Hi, Can you tell me if Mr. Bogdan is willing to share or sell plans for his Long Hive? Also, how I can contact him? I really like his hives. I built something similar, but not as good as his. Thanks, Marsh


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## ldygardener (Jun 8, 2010)

The concept of the Thomas hive has bits and pieces that I want to include in a TBH but not enough for me to warrant the price. What I liked was the internal water/feed source, the addition of supers and the fact that you could potentially have 3 colonies in one hive. I'm not 100% on the bottom board as I didn't see a way to close it for the winter, I also spoke via email with the designer and the don't offer it with anything but metal legs and you can't purchase it unassembled. We are going to stick to our plan and attempt to build our own hybrid style this winter...


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## Metropropolis (Feb 15, 2012)

ldygardener said:


> Does that sounds nuts? Is there already such a creature with plans available?


Horizontal hives have a long tradition in Eastern Europe, and were partially the inspiration for the KTBH. 

Last year, after writing an analysis of Top Bars and Langs, I concluded that a Long Lang would incorporate features of both, and minimize, but not exclude shortcomings of the KTBH.

Last winter, I built two such Long hives, and gave one to a friend. The hive has the capacity of three deeps, is an observation hive, is superable, and partitionable, has multiple entrances, and built in entrance reducers. It also has design features to improve overwintering. The other hive performed beyond anyone's expectations. My own performed reasonably. Overwintering ability is in the process of being determined, but I am optimistic.

The single greatest shortcoming of this hive is that once populated, it is virtually unmovable, due to size and weight.

Ultimately, I conclude that it is an interesting hive, but do not think it is practical, nor better than a vertical, modular Lang.

This winter, I hope to get around to building more, for the sake of documenting the process for others.




ldygardener said:


> Could I buy unassembeled lang pieces to create such a monster?


A very simple long hive can be made by splicing 3 deeps together, but suggest that if one is going to DIY, one might as well go the distance,put the effort in, and build something special.


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## ch.cool (Aug 22, 2012)

Hi Marsh,
the link with the hive from Mr. Bogdan you should go to the main page and ask the owner of the page if his friend is willing to give the plan for it. But it should be in the dimensions of a langstroth just longer and the rest shouldn't be so hard getting the idea from the pictures.

Metropolis,

what is the special feature to improving overwintering?

Thanks 

ch.cool


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## Metropropolis (Feb 15, 2012)

ch.cool said:


> Metropolis,
> 
> what is the special feature to improving overwintering?
> 
> ...


The design uses 1 1/2" thick wood, instead of 7/8". Build includes the use of quilts. Partitioning into two colonies provides overwintering fault-tolerance and heat sharing. Also designed to accommodate foam insulation on sides.

These features mitigate, but do not remove the thermal shortcomings of a horizontal hive. In the end, it is a (thermal) improvement upon a KTBH, but still thermally inferior to a Vert Lang.


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## Paul McCarty (Mar 30, 2011)

I have nearly a dozen of these hives in a semi-commercial operation. They work very well in combination with nucleus hives. I have also found moving them to not be much of an issue. Just put a closable entrance on it and use several people to lift it. My largest ones hold the equivalent of 4 deeps, but the bees rarely fill it that full. They normally stop about 2/3rds of the way and I use the empty space for storage. I also super them. I use an insulated roof for winter.

No need to re-invent the wheel. They are pretty easy to make, except for the roof if you want it to split for supering.


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## Paul McCarty (Mar 30, 2011)

Here is a design I found on this site. I have never used it, but they are pretty similar. Mine have an entrance on the end, because I like the work them from the sides and not stand in bees.


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## ldygardener (Jun 8, 2010)

Move the hive? Um..not something I'd ever do once full of bees as I have a designated area on my property for my hives. Thanks for all the information, very helpful!!!


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## Paul McCarty (Mar 30, 2011)

I have many different sites I keep mine in. Most are semi-permanent. Moving has never been an issue, with enough help.

Here are two of my hives...


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## cerezha (Oct 11, 2011)

Che Guebuddha said:


> Check Dennis Murrell's site;
> http://bwrangler.litarium.com/combo-long-hive/


 I made very similar one - 2 Langs long with ability to add supers. It is literally just a box. Mine has a double bottom board, screen and solid with the gap for sticky board or oil tray. So far,bees are happy in new home, but let see what happened after California winter.


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## Metropropolis (Feb 15, 2012)

My own:


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## Che Guebuddha (Feb 4, 2012)

I have made a similar Top Bar Hive with the idea to put 2 supers on top of it. What I dont want to do is make gaps between the top bars since they are already 34mm and I defenetly dont want to cut into them.
Is there another alternative to this like removing only one top bar and let the ladies go up? If so which top bar, one which is over the brood nest or over the entrance or back of the brood nest?

Thank you


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## Paul McCarty (Mar 30, 2011)

I use foundationless frames. Can't really answer that for you.


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