# Comb drawing question for the pros



## marshmasterpat (Jun 26, 2013)

Lauri uses 1:2 syrup mixture, think it is for drawing frames. Try a small amount.


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## Slow Drone (Apr 19, 2014)

marshmasterpat said:


> Lauri uses 1:2 syrup mixture, think it is for drawing frames. Try a small amount.


I use the same for drawing comb.


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

Thanks. That's good to know. Lots cheaper and maybe won't be as likely to cause robbing?


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## Slow Drone (Apr 19, 2014)

Yes it does keep robbing at bay.


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## B&E (Dec 27, 2011)

1 part sugar, 2 parts water?


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

I believe it is 1 part water to 2 part sugar.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

The water content of nectar in flowers is often more than 80% water and the bees take it.


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## Knisely (Oct 26, 2013)

I respectfully disagree with beepro. 2:1 (two pounds sugar to one pint water (because a pint's a pound the world 'round)) is fed in fall to increase reserves for hives that are at risk of not having enough stores to get through the winter, because the carbohydrate concentration is higher. 

1:2 would be a pound of sugar to a quart of water, or a four pound bag of sugar to a full gallon of water.


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## Markt (Feb 8, 2012)

I think the big issue with diluting syrup is just spoilage, no? If you dilute it you may just have to watch more carefully that they do take it all and it doesn't sit in a frame feeder for 3 months? That would be my only thought.


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## marshmasterpat (Jun 26, 2013)

Reading through Lauri's posts I believe she feeds different than some.

I am about 99% certain she does use 1:2, 1:1, and 2:1 ratios throughout the year. Go through some of her recent posts she was just talking about this. If I remember right (only about 50% certain on this) the extra thin is used to stimulate wax building flow, the 1:1 is for both wax building and build up, and 2:1 she uses for winter stores build up.


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

Thanks for the responses. 

I've been using 1:2 syrup nd even with that, I have encountered a robbing problem like I have never seen before. 

I moved the 3 splits last night about 1/4 mile, into the yard at my house. I hope that slows them down. The robber screens I made didn't seem to slow them at all.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Give the bees what they only need and no extra left over to spoil or
induce robbing. I use a small jar to feed them at night. By morning they
all took down the honey water. Or you can increase the nuc strength to keep
the foragers out. Or reduced the hive entrance a bit. I only move the strong hive
to the out yard and tend to the small weaker nuc at the home yard that every hive
has its own little jar of honey water so no robbery is induced.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Brad Bee I haven't followed what's happening with your splits so don't know what's happening, but one thing I see as important when I make splits is never to feed them syrup when they are newly made, they get comb honey and at a later point preferably after the queen is mated and they have sorted themselves out, they may get some syrup if needed.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Oldtimer said:


> Brad Bee I haven't followed what's happening with your splits so don't know what's happening, but one thing I see as important when I make splits is never to feed them syrup when they are newly made, they get comb honey and at a later point preferably after the queen is mated and they have sorted themselves out, they may get some syrup if needed.


Robbing concerns I presume?


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

Oldtimer said:


> Brad Bee I haven't followed what's happening with your splits so don't know what's happening, but one thing I see as important when I make splits is never to feed them syrup when they are newly made, they get comb honey and at a later point preferably after the queen is mated and they have sorted themselves out, they may get some syrup if needed.


OT, I've learned that one the hard way this time. I'm afraid I'm going to have queen rejection in all 3 of these splits. I simply can't get the robbing to stop and I've tried everything I can. I've removed the feeders, moved the splits, put on robber screens. I don't know what else to do.


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## Slow Drone (Apr 19, 2014)

Rub Vicks around the entrance it will stop almost immediately.


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## B&E (Dec 27, 2011)

beepro said:


> I believe it is 1 part water to 2 part sugar.


What I was unclear on is which side of the ratio was referring to sugar and which was water. 

I'm fully aware that thinner syrup is for stimulation and wax, similar to a nectar flow. Whereas think syrup, like you buy from the refinery, will put on weight...and stimulate I might add. 

My question is, can you go thinner than 50% sugar? Does wax drawing increase?


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## B&E (Dec 27, 2011)

Slow Drone said:


> Rub Vicks around the entrance it will stop almost immediately.


If that is for real, I'm going to try that.


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## Slow Drone (Apr 19, 2014)

1:2 is 1 part sugar 2 parts water that is what I use for comb drawing. 2:1 is 2 parts sugar 1 part water for feed.


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## Slow Drone (Apr 19, 2014)

B&E said:


> If that is for real, I'm going to try that.


Yes it is true when I get behind at times and don't get robber screens built I use Vicks to stop the robbing until I get the screens on. I'm not the only one who uses Vicks to stop robbing there are other members that do also.


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## B&E (Dec 27, 2011)

That's what I thought. BP had me confused


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

marshmasterpat said:


> Reading through Lauri's posts I believe she feeds different than some.
> 
> I am about 99% certain she does use 1:2, 1:1, and 2:1 ratios throughout the year. Go through some of her recent posts she was just talking about this. If I remember right (only about 50% certain on this) the extra thin is used to stimulate wax building flow, the 1:1 is for both wax building and build up, and 2:1 she uses for winter stores build up.


These are the ratios I use. Keep in mind these are targets, not laws. Different flowers have varying moisture content throughout the day, so if your mixture is a little off, the bees won't care.

Alex


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

jim lyon said:


> Robbing concerns I presume?


Yes. However I know a lot of guys do feed sugar straight off but if they are skilled and have a proven system then it can be done, I even do it in mini nucs that are designed so a 200 ml tin of bees can defend their stash of syrup.

But for a hobbyist making a few splits, in the same yard as the parent hive, and maybe in a dearth, I would advise avoiding feeding syrup too soon, like the plague. Many nucs are lost to that.


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

Oldtimer said:


> But for a hobbyist


Just to set the record straight, I'm not a hobbyist. I am a professional at screwing things up. LOL

Might as well laugh, or cry I guess.

I have made splits and fed them in the same yard with large hives before, during a dearth, but never during a drought when hive populations are still booming. I figure the high population of completely unemployed field bees is the problem. My large hives are already well into summer brood rearing drop off, but the field force hasn't died off yet.


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

Brad - feeding nucs sugar syrup - Just pour some in your dry drawn comb and install late in the evening - overnight the bees will move it around and clean up any spills you made - hereby reducing robbing and feeding all in one whack - don't over do it


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Brad Bee said:


> I simply can't get the robbing to stop and I've tried everything I can. I've removed the feeders, moved the splits, put on robber screens. I don't know what else to do.


OK what can happen is a split having been subjected to serious robbing kind of gets overun, and the bees just surrender, they lose their moral. Although you moved them which is a good idea, the problem is they were only moved a 1/4 mile. Hives being badly robbed will have some robber bees camp in them overnight. You move them a 1/4 mile and it only takes one of those robbers to find their way home the next day & they tell the hive the new location and it starts up again.

The splits need to be moved far away, preferably from any hive but certainly out of range of the hives that are robbing atm. Problem with such splts being robbed is they need at least several days with no robbing whatsoever, to start getting their confidence back and then start defending. Any bee attempting to rob in the first day or two after the move will likely be let straight in.

So what I would do anyway, would be remove nearly all honey / nectar from the splits so they just have enough to stay alive for a week or so, and arrange it in such a way the bee cluster will cover it. Entrances would be reduced to one or two bees, and the hives moved well away. In a week I would go and give them a comb with some honey, then a couple weeks later a cautious syrup feed.

I have never heard of using vicks, but hey, if it works, maybe that will save a heap of trouble.


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

sakhoney said:


> Brad - feeding nucs sugar syrup - Just pour some in your dry drawn comb and install late in the evening - overnight the bees will move it around and clean up any spills you made - hereby reducing robbing and feeding all in one whack - don't over do it


I've done that before. Not sure why I didn't do it this time. Well, yes I do know because now I've got a box full of shiny frame feeders to use.


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

OT, thanks for the reply. I will likely just move them again tomorrow about 2 miles to my shop. That should take care of it.

You are spot on about robbers staying in the hive. I noticed that last night and "hive tooled" a couple that were fighting with the resident bees.

This nuc hasn't been demoralized yet. They are still fighting like mad and moving them did curb the robbing a good deal, but they are still being robbed.

I was going to try the vapor rub like Slow Drone suggested but apparently we don't have any in the house.


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

frame feeders - good money better used for new boxes and frames - I feed upward of 100 nucs at a time - 1 gallon zip lock bags - and a sharp knife - quick and cheap


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

I have learned a valuable lesson though...

I will NEVER feed a split again during a dearth. I will feed the strong hives and move frames of nectar.

I may just stop leaving splits on the farm. I will likely just make a 20 foot rack at my shop and move them up there until they build up. That makes the most sense.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Brad Bee said:


> I'm not a hobbyist.


Oops LOL!

Actually when I wrote that I was thinking you were a commercial beekeeper from other posts of yours I've read, but what threw me was you were talking about 3 splits, I'm thinking 3 splits, woah I must have been mistaken the guy must be a hobbyist.

Oh well, everybody knows now.


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

You missed my joke. LOL

I mean that I wasn't a hobbyist at screwing up, I was a professional at that.

I am not a commercial beekeeper. I am trying to be a sideliner, but my professional propensity at screwing up keeps getting in the way.

The reason I'm dealing with 3 splits right now is I bought some queens from a TF apiary in Arkansas that I'm trying to get started so I can get some of their genetics in my bee yard next year.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

OK well introducing caged queens to hives that are being robbed is very high risk, the bees are fighting and a strange queen has a high chance of being killed, I have discovered that to my cost.

So if you already have the queens the safest options are make new splits, or use the existing ones but ensure robbing is over before the queens are released.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

marshmasterpat said:


> Lauri uses 1:2 syrup mixture, think it is for drawing frames. Try a small amount.


I use that strength for open feeding during late summer dearth periods so I can work my mating nucs without making them a target for robbing. 
The bucket feeders are more of a lure than anything. A slosh of cider vinegar and a half a cap full of bleach in the mix keep stragglers busy. 
I don't have Italians though, just Carni hybrids so robbing isn't a big deal around here.
I use 1:1 or just a tad weaker for getting comb drawn.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

1:1 fortified syrup is how I got this colony from this:

March 30th










to this

current photo:










Now, my main flow is just getting started.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

B&E said:


> 1 part sugar, 2 parts water?


Yes, for thin syrup. One to one for thick syrup. One part water to two parts sugar for thicker syrup.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

beepro said:


> I believe it is 1 part water to 2 part sugar.


If you want thick syrup.


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

Lauri - what's the missing corner on that foundation for?


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

sakhoney said:


> Lauri - what's the missing corner on that foundation for?


I cut them out for better bee and queen movement within the hive, but cut them out a little larger so I can do this:










1/2" pipe won't hold the weight without sagging. I use 3/4" or 1".


You can see when given the chance to draw natural comb, they always leave two or three access holes in the corners of the frame. Bottom two and top corner.


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

Well now that you responded I need you to go back and look at the original frame - look in the upper corners - see the perforations - This is a mann lake frame. These foundations are put in upside down on everything I have bought from them - the perforations are for you to do just what your doing - but you can't get them to change it
Why are you hanging them on the pipe in that fashion?


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