# Deep Frame Nuc transition to Medium Supers



## bsteineman (Mar 26, 2013)

*Transferring a Deep Frame Nuc into Medium Supers*

Hello,

I purchased nuc that came on Deep frames. I only have medium boxes and medium frames, I'm wondering what's the best way to transition them into medium boxes/frames?

I was thinking of:

Top Cover
Medium Box - with empty Medium Frames
Medium Box - The 5 deep nuc frames would hang in the middle of this box (no frames would be added on the sides)
Medium Box 
Bottom Board

The new nuc would start in a hive with 3 mediums, is this too much space? or should I purchase a deep box to replace the 2 bottom mediums instead? 

Is it correct to assume the bees will build upwards and I can eventually remove the deep frames on the bottom?

Thank you and any advice or techniques would be appreciated.


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## Deepsouth (Feb 21, 2012)

never tried that method but it sounds like they might make a mess with that system if your not careful. When I transition from deeps to mediums, It takes me a year. I start with a deep and stack mediums on top. The next spring all the bees will be in the mediums and I simply take the deep away.


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## Ravenzero (Sep 26, 2012)

When I was considering this, someone suggested using a dremel and cutting the deeps to size and putting that in the medium, doing so, you lose 20% of the comb, which may or may not contain brood.
You could also put five frames in the bottom medium, five frames in a middle medium, and in the remainng space, put two by fours cut to size and insert the deeps. The two by fours will prevent them from building comb downward in the 3 inches of space below that would be open without it.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

I have the same problem - I run 8-frame mediums, and the nucs I buy come as 5-frame deeps. I found a 5-frame to 8/10-frame transistion board at Brushy Mountain:

http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/Nuc-Intro-Board/productinfo/649/

I plan to have the 5-frame nuc on the bottom, then the transistion board, then a 8-frame medium. That way, the bees will be forced to start building in 8-frame medium equipment pretty much from day one. 

I will remove the 5-frame nuc at the end of winter, like Deepsouth mentioned above. This way, I don't have to buy more unwanted deep frames to fill out an 8-frame deep, or have bees build out deep frame comb that would soon be taken out of circulation.


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## bsteineman (Mar 26, 2013)

Ravenzero said:


> When I was considering this, someone suggested using a dremel and cutting the deeps to size and putting that in the medium, doing so, you lose 20% of the comb, which may or may not contain brood.
> You could also put five frames in the bottom medium, five frames in a middle medium, and in the remainng space, put two by fours cut to size and insert the deeps. The two by fours will prevent them from building comb downward in the 3 inches of space below that would be open without it.


From what I understand I'll consolidate it down to 2 medium boxes packed with medium frames and some 2x4 wood under the deep frames.

Top Cover
Medium Box - 5 Empty Medium Frames & 5 Deep Nuc Frames
Medium Box - 5 Empty Medium Frames
Bottom Board

Should I still keep another empty medium box on the top in case they want to build upwards? instead of sideways or downwards. Would adding follower boards to the side of the deep frames help them to build upwards?


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## Beregondo (Jun 21, 2011)

What if you cut a hole the size of the nuc top opening in a piece of 1/8 or 1/4" sheetstock (whatever's handy -coroplast, masonite, plywood) the same dimensions as your medium brood box, and:

1) put your queen and a shake of bees into the medium box full of comb or frames;

2) put the reducer board described above on top of the nuc 
(If you use a med. nuc instead of a hive body for this transition, you won't need his board at all, just an excluder)

3) put a queen excluder on top of that, and

4) put the brood box containing the queen and shake of bees atop that.

If my understanding of bee biology is right, the queen will start laying in the medium box, and nurse bees will move up to attend the brood.

As the brood below emerges, it and the nurse bees that had been attending them will migrate up to tend the open brood above. within 3 weeks there will be no brood below and you can remove the deep nuc, transition board & excluder.

If the bees put up any nectar in the deep nuc, you can set it on end to be robbed right next to the hive if it is the only one you have in that yard, or far enough away ass not to invite robbing if you have more than one hive there.

What do you guys who've been keeping bees for five or ten years think?
Is that a good idea, or is there a simpler way?


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## jkingqm (Apr 13, 2015)

I'm going to have the same problem of running medium boxes but will be receiving a deep nuc. Can I just do a cut out? That is cut the comb out of the nuc and rubber band nto my medium frames? I will lose a few inches of comb on each frame. My only concern is that this will be too traumatic to the bees.


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## Focus on Bees (Mar 6, 2006)

Hey, a very quick and easy way to do this is to put the deep frames in a deep box. Then fill in the side or sides with high density foam to block off the extra room. Then simply add your medium boxes on top of that. They will fill up the deep frames and then go into the medium boxes. Once they are there make sure the Queen is up in the medium box and add an empty medium between the deep frames and the now occupied medium. There you have it !! Good luck !


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## jkingqm (Apr 13, 2015)

Focus, thanks. That would be easiest. I don't know about quick since they would need to draw the comb in the medium boxes. Also I would then be left with the deep frames of comb and whatever pollen and honey. 

Is cutting the deep nuc comb and rubber banding into medium frames such a bad thing? I'm asking because I've never read of anyone trying that which makes me wonder if it's a bad idea.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

*Re: Transferring a Deep Frame Nuc into Medium Supers*

jking..
I saw a you tube vidio of some one doing it, so I know it has been done.
gww


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## sterling (Nov 14, 2013)

bsteineman said:


> From what I understand I'll consolidate it down to 2 medium boxes packed with medium frames and some 2x4 wood under the deep frames.
> 
> Top Cover
> Medium Box - 5 Empty Medium Frames & 5 Deep Nuc Frames
> ...


That is the simple way to do it. Just use two boxes until they build them out and move the deeps to the outside when they start raising brood in the mediums. Then take them out when there is not any brood in them and cut the comb to fit in medium frames. and I wouldn't bother adding anything to the bottom of the deep frames. If they add a little comb it won't be enough to hurt anything.


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## Bear Creek Steve (Feb 18, 2009)

*Re: Transferring a Deep Frame Nuc into Medium Supers*

jkingqm,

IMHO cutting the comb out and putting it in an empty frame is a bad idea. It is a very messy (and slippery) job, you will have lots of bees in the air, and you will probably kill a lot of bees because they will get "lost" in all of the honey. You (& the girls) will also lose that extra inch or so of comb containing brood/honey that ends up as "throw away" from the five deep frames. If you do choose to go this route, I suggest that you use cotton string to tie the comb in place rather than rubber bands (which become very slippery and hard to work with when coated with honey).

I recommend any of the other variety of approached suggested above.

Steve


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## jkingqm (Apr 13, 2015)

Thank you all. I will look for that video. I can't provide a link because it is a PDF file but if you google search "Transitioning deep frame nucs to medium boxes" it comes up first. It gives a couple of methods like you suggested.


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## warrior (Nov 21, 2005)

Stack two mediums, insert the five deep frames all to one side. Ideally fill the the space below the deep frames. Fill the rest with medium frames, both boxes or five medium frames per box.
They will migrate on their own and pull the deeps out as they empty of brood. Most likely the outside frame.
If you didn't fill below the deeps odds are there will be comb extensions on the bottoms of the frames.


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## sterling (Nov 14, 2013)

*Re: Transferring a Deep Frame Nuc into Medium Supers*



Bear Creek Steve said:


> jkingqm,
> 
> IMHO cutting the comb out and putting it in an empty frame is a bad idea. It is a very messy (and slippery) job, you will have lots of bees in the air, and you will probably kill a lot of bees because they will get "lost" in all of the honey. You (& the girls) will also lose that extra inch or so of comb containing brood/honey that ends up as "throw away" from the five deep frames. If you do choose to go this route, I suggest that you use cotton string to tie the comb in place rather than rubber bands (which become very slippery and hard to work with when coated with honey).
> 
> ...


This stuff is just not as complicated as some make it sound!


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## Colobee (May 15, 2014)

*Re: Transferring a Deep Frame Nuc into Medium Supers*

We're beekeepers, we can complicate the heck out if _anything_ . Just look at the great sugar brick debacle. Mix sugar and vinegar, let it dry. But wait...


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## Walt Starr (Mar 5, 2008)

*Re: Transferring a Deep Frame Nuc into Medium Supers*

What if you went ahead and just got an eight frame deep box, three deep frames, and an 8 frame queen excluder?. Add the nuc to the 8 frame deep, then put the three frames to the outside. After the bees draw out those frames somewhat, put an 8 frame medium on top of it. After the bees draw out the medium frames and the queen is in there laying, put the queen excluder between the boxes. When all of the brood in the deep frames has emerged, remove the deep and keep going with mediums. If there is honey and pollen in the deep frames, you could just set it away from your hive and let the bees clean them out. Then, you hold onto the deep in case you ever buy a five frame nuc again.


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

*Re: Transferring a Deep Frame Nuc into Medium Supers*

Step 1. shake bees from deep nuc into medium box.
Step 2. Set tablesaw fence at 6.25 inches and run bottom of deep frames through blade.
Step 3. Place shortened frames into medium box with bees.


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## Focus on Bees (Mar 6, 2006)

Sounds like more work than I want to do. You could do it though.


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## Gttice (Jan 27, 2016)

Has anyone just asked the Nuc supplier to use medium frames to start with?


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## RudyT (Jan 25, 2012)

One nuc supplier I know uses 5 frame boxes, 1 deep and 1 medium per colony.
The queens mate and are observed for pattern in the box. 
He can sell from each colony once the frames are laid, either a medium or deep nuc He then inserts the next new queen cell, and a new box with some foundation and some comb.


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## Buckner (Aug 2, 2019)

Looks like no one's looked at this in awhile. I spoke to a local guy who sells deep nucs and he agreed that if I'd bring an empty medium nuc w/ drawn frames, he'd sit them on his deeps and call me when they were full. He would sell the queen with the new medium nuc for $125. His deep nucs are $145. That's nice of him to do and probably a fair price. I bought three of his deep nucs because I want to build up my apiary. Here's what I'm trying. I took new medium frames and added an additional piece to the bottom, same width as the other frame and enough depth to it to make it the same as a deep frame. It's a narrow rectangular frame extension. I used three small frame nails pushed up through the bottom to attach them and put then in the deep hive body I started with the nuc. I use 8 frame equipment, so I added three of my new "combo frames" to fill up the box. When they're drawn out, I can pull off the bottom extension and I'll have a drawn, laid, medium frame to move up to the medium box on top. It leaves me about 1 1/2" small "frame" of eggs (or at least comb) to let hatch or use to attach to another medium frame to make it a combo frame. I'll let you know how it works, but it if does, it seems like the perfect way for a nuc producer to make his nucs. Then they could be sold as either deeps or mediums with no extra work.


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## JConnolly (Feb 21, 2015)

*Re: Transferring a Deep Frame Nuc into Medium Supers*

This is not the only time you are going to run into this problem. Get a deep box. If you don't want to have extra deep frames then fill the space with a frame feeder or 2" XPS foam. When the queen moves up and you get brood in the medium then reverse the box and put on a queen excluder and let the brood on the deeps hatch out.


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