# bees are getting the blame again



## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

> A recent study by U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) scientists shows that genetically engineered (GE) alfalfa has gone wild, in a big way, in alfalfa-growing parts of the West. This feral GE alfalfa may help explain a number of transgenic contamination episodes over the past few years that have cost American alfalfa growers and exporters millions of dollars in lost revenue. And it also exposes the failure of USDA’s “coexistence” policy for GE and traditional crops.





> However, the researchers also found clear evidence that the Roundup Ready gene was being spread by bees, which are known to cross-pollinate alfalfa populations separated by up to several miles. Their results suggested that “transgenic plants could spread transgenes to neighboring feral plants and potentially to neighboring non-GE fields.” While they did not test this latter possibility, there is no doubt that non-GE alfalfa has in fact been transgenically contaminated—not just once, but on many occasions.


http://ecowatch.com/2016/01/21/gmo-alfalfa-gone-wild/


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

Wonder if there's no certified seed requirements for isolation, there should be, which would mean no feral plants should be around either.


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## tech.35058 (Jul 29, 2013)

Caution: I am just a little bit anti-GMO
When it first started, it was a "blight resistant potato" or something. It sounded like a good thing.
Now a farmer can not legally save seed from last years crop to plant next year due to the seed he grew is the "intellectual property" of a big corporation that paid big $ to make it so.
Now, unfortunately , their GMO pollen is corrupting "my" highly valued heirloom crop.
I am sure their big$ lawyers will be sure they avoid their responsibility.
AArrggh! CE

PS. oh they probably programmed the plants to produce less nectar, & use that energy towards the "primary plant product". who needs bees?


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

GMO modifications have nothing to do with nectar production... that would be the natural breeding of elite varieties with high yields, don't confuse the two. Besides, to weed out the garbage, just spray the young plants with roundup, and all the worthless plants will die anyways.


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## whiskers (Aug 28, 2011)

If the infectious gene is the Roundup resistance and you spray Roundup, won't you kill the heirloom alfalfa and leave the infected plants? Won't Monsanto then claim that you have intentionally concentrated their genetics so that you could steal them?
Bill


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

You didn't get the joke did you??


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## tech.35058 (Jul 29, 2013)

JRG13 said:


> GMO modifications have nothing to do with nectar production... that would be the natural breeding of elite varieties with high yields, don't confuse the two. Besides, to weed out the garbage, just spray the young plants with roundup, and all the worthless plants will die anyways.


quoted from my previous post "PS. oh they probably programmed the plants to produce less nectar, & use that energy towards the "primary plant product". who needs bees? "

I'm glad I threw the "probably" in there. I guess I read too much sci-fi.
Wikipedia has an interesting entry regarding genetic modifications,( wiki is exactly that, a wiki ...)

While GMO crops have a lot of pluses, I am just not very trusting . Pandora's box & all of that.

btw, I didn't get the joke either.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

Don't believe everything you read on Wiki or the internet for that matter. Not to say conspiracy theories don't pan out, but when you bring a GMO product to market it must go through a USDA/FDA de-regulation process. It costs about $40 million dollars these days. During this process, the event (DNA insertion) is mapped and sequenced, all transcripts are described and confirmed, and the trait is described in detail in terms of what it's doing and how it's doing it. Aside from that, most GMO traits boost yields by offering protection to the plant from pests/herbicides etc.. The main factor in the new boosts in yields etc... really rely on the elite breeding of high yielding lines or hybrids, this is where you now may see decrease in nectar production etc... due to the amount of resources going into fruit/seed production. Not to say it's not un-intentional either, but someone could've correlated low nectar production to higher yields somewhere and it kind of becomes a useful tool for screening.


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## whiskers (Aug 28, 2011)

You're right, missed the joke. But one hears anecdotes about the aggressive defence of intellectual property mounted by these companies and worries. One also worries that if one of these products turns out to be thalidomide how in the world you could remove it.
Bill


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Without getting into the larger issue of gmo's my experience in recent years is that gmo alfalfa yields at least as much nectar as other varieties. It's pricey to plant but really stands out because of its lack of any weeds or grass. In our area the first cuttings of most alfalfa fields that aren't rr alfalfa are increasingly plagued by thistles and cheat grass infestations that have made them little more than cheap grinding hay.


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## jadebees (May 9, 2013)

Many cultivars of common plants have little nectar, or defective pollen. It depends on the variety that was modified, not the eventual genetics. Landscape plants, a good example, such as fruitless mulberry. But what of the unintended modifications? I doubt every new compound or enzyme in those plants are predictable or studied. Sterility genes can be added to plants, thru gene splicing, that make their seed nonviable. It is triggered by, a coating on the parent seed/plant.
Grocery store chickpeas, planted here had 100% failure to set seed. This is solely for seed producer's benefit. 
The seed companies would dearly love to get everyone under their thumb. Can you tell I'm not a fan of Sociopathic Corporations?
JRG13, Monsanto agrees with your joke!


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

wildbranch2007 said:


> http://ecowatch.com/2016/01/21/gmo-alfalfa-gone-wild/



That article is a really poorly written and deliberately deceiving. The results of the original paper that is citedindicate the following:

Neighboring feral plants were frequently within pollinator foraging range; however, further research is needed to confirm transgene flow. 

Our study confirms that genetically engineered alfalfa has dispersed into the environment, and suggests that minimizing seed spillage and eradicating feral alfalfa along road sides would be effective strategies to minimize transgene dispersal.

Where is the "clear evidence" that the roundup ready gene is spread by bees? What a load of BS.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

I don't think alfalfa is wind pollinated, but at the same time, if I was trying to produce high quality clean seed, I wouldn't be as lax as these producers seem to be in letting nearby feral plants subsist and propagate.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Alfalfa requires pollinators. Leaf cutters are probably the single best but honey bees combined with leaf cutters is better. Bees are just doing their job, spreading genes... The idea that you can put GMO genes out in the wild and keep them from getting into non-GMO crops is pretty far fetched.


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## JellyBee (Jun 6, 2015)

My Husbands Uncle grows an Indian corn that is an open pollinated strain that produces a large number of Pearly green kernels. It is not a hybrid but was selectively bred over a period of 30yrs, until it was stabilized, and is now recognized as an heirloom. Two generations of a family and alot of work went into it. Nine years ago a neighboring farmer planted Monsanto Roundup Ready field corn that contained the "terminator gene" , needless to say it terminated his Uncle's heirloom Indian corn. Thankfully, many of the women in the family, myself included, make "door decorations" from this corn and some of us had ears of corn from prior plantings, we were able to gather up (1) brown paper grocery bag of it, from all over the country. That first crop had only about a 30% germination rate , mostly due to improper storage, It took nearly 4 years to build that crop yield to were it was prior to the neighbor planting that "terminator corn" 
The neighbor felt so bad about the situation that he promised to never plant Monsanto corn again. My Husbands uncle is fortunate to have good neighbors, not all who farm are "good" neighbors, some are soulless corporations.


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

Nabber86 said:


> Our study confirms that genetically engineered alfalfa has dispersed into the environment, and suggests that minimizing seed spillage and eradicating feral alfalfa along road sides would be effective strategies to minimize transgene dispersal.


Wouldn't such an effort violate some of the goals of the Pollinator Act?

Alex


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

JellyBee, you know the terminator gene was never released or commercialized in anyway, that was a commitment made in 1999.


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

Agree with JRG on this one. Terminator gene technology has NOT been released in any way at all. While your corn may have crossed with a commercial hybrid and it may have been a GMO hybrid, it was not a terminator type.


"The idea that you can put GMO genes out in the wild and keep them from getting into non-GMO crops is pretty far fetched."

There are genetic methods to limit gene flow within a species. Corn for example has a highly selective gene present in most popcorn that prevents pollination by most field corn.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

I don't think anyone had the notion of gene flow not happening, but if I were a grower trying to produce clean seed I'd be scouting and doing more to isolate my production field.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Hmmm, I'd like to have RR alfalfa here on my farm, another tool to increase production on variable land


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