# need some advice..



## waynesgarden

beestudent said:


> ..so, any advice on how to proceed? It should be easy...


Yes, Wait until Spring.

Wayne


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## Dave Burrup

It is too late in the year for a small cutout in your neck of the woods.


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## Barhopper

Big rubber bands work better than string


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## johng

I agree with Barhopper. Rubber bands are much easier to secure the comb to frames v/s the string. I had a terrible time trying to tie comb in frames but, several rubber bands on a frame work pretty easy use as many bands as you need. You may only need 3-4 for a big piece of comb but smaller pieces will take a few more.


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## squarepeg

they'll have a much better chance at surviving winter if you leave them be, and if they make it you'll know you're getting bees with decent survivor traits.


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## biggraham610

You should try that Beestudent, the rubber bands, that's what I use. Try it in the _Spring_ when you do the cutout.  G


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## Tenbears

No matter how you slice it, It is too late to do a cut out. I would not do one that was offered just today to me and it is a huge hive. You are further north than I am. It is almost certain that if you do that cut out you will loose it over the winter unless you use it to bolster a week hive, or put it in a observation hive in a heated building where you can feed it.


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## jwcarlson

Wait a month them give it a shot.


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## biggraham610

jwcarlson said:


> Wait a month them give it a shot.


:applause:


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## squarepeg

tough crowd.


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## jwcarlson

squarepeg said:


> tough crowd.


You'll know why when he's asking about splitting his cut out two weeks from now.


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## Thershey

He wasn't really asking for advice anyhow, just needed a little attention. Condolences to the bees on being adopted into an observation hive with no windows.


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## biggraham610

jwcarlson said:


> You'll know why when he's asking about splitting his cut out two weeks from now.


X2 G


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## Billboard

Lmoa........ another good post


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## RayMarler

BeeStudent,
I really like your overwhelming enthusiasm for beekeeping, and hope you do well. Did you do the cut out yet? I don't think it would hurt to try. I was going to mention that you might want to take a bucket of warm water and a few rags, and maybe a bottle of dish soap? It might get sticky. It may be better to wait for spring, but if your enthusiasm says do it now then by all means do it. Save all the comb you can and tie it in. I like string better myself... tie it to one corner and wrap it round and round like candy cane stripe to the other side and tie it off. Rubber bands sag on me in the hive with the heat so, I dunno, I just prefer string. Bring them home and put on a feeder and some pollen patty, see if you can get their space 2/3 - 3/4 honey stores by first killing frost. I used to be enthusiastic like you, I hope you have a lot of fun with your bees. Good luck!


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## Slow Drone

RayMarler said:


> BeeStudent,
> I really like your overwhelming enthusiasm for beekeeping, and hope you do well. Did you do the cut out yet? I don't think it would hurt to try. I was going to mention that you might want to take a bucket of warm water and a few rags, and maybe a bottle of dish soap? It might get sticky. It may be better to wait for spring, but if your enthusiasm says do it now then by all means do it. Save all the comb you can and tie it in. I like string better myself... tie it to one corner and wrap it round and round like candy cane stripe to the other side and tie it off. Rubber bands sag on me in the hive with the heat so, I dunno, I just prefer string. Bring them home and put on a feeder and some pollen patty, see if you can get their space 2/3 - 3/4 honey stores by first killing frost. I used to be enthusiastic like you, I hope you have a lot of fun with your bees. Good luck!


:thumbsup:


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## Mike Gillmore

I've never attempted to do a cut out this late in the year. If you are able to fill all the frames with comb, and feed them while time remains, why would it not survive as an overwintered nuc? I know what I think, but would like to hear everyone's reasoning behind their suggestions to not do it now.


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## biggraham610

My only reason for suggesting he wait till spring Mike, was simply because I see what he posts, and from what I can tell, his hives are to the bones now. If he is planning on using the bees to boost weak numbers, I would by all means say Go for it. I also don't think that managed properly they would not make it here, in a nuc. I don't know his weather, but assume it is much tougher. I too enjoy Beestudents enthusiasm. I would like to see him turn that energy into a overwintering strategy. Nothing kills enthusiasm, like dead bees your first spring. G


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## squarepeg

average first frost date for midland michigan is 9/23. in my view winter preps should be complete no later than that and preferably before that. chances are the bees in their present location are getting close to having their cavity optimized in terms of population and stores. disrupting that this close to the deadline and expecting them to recover is rolling the dice at best. what do you think mike?


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## Rusty Hills Farm

beestudent said:


> I have a cut out I am going to attempt today, just gt back from checking out the hive, looks to be about a nuc box, to 1 1/2 a box of bees/comb. What I'm gonna do is: take string and 1 deep box, and all other equipment, and just cut the comb and tie it into some frames with some string. so, any advice on how to proceed? It should be easy...



Personally my advice would be to move as far south as you can manage so you can have weather that matches your enthusiasm!

:thumbsup:

Rusty


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## Barry

beestudent said:


> It should be easy...


Famous last words.


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## biggraham610

Barry said:


> Famous last words.


:lookout:


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## Mike Gillmore

beestudent said:


> It should be easy...


.... but it's not.


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## Mike Gillmore

If it were me I would combine it with another hive as biggraham suggested. That's probably the only "easy" part. 

Let's assume a properly nurtured 5 frame deep nuc from an earlier split can overwinter in Michigan with a feeder rim. If a cut out has plenty of brood comb and stores to fill all the nuc frames, the queen was salvaged, the nuc was filled with bees, and they have a month to rearrange their stores, what would stop them from surviving?


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## beestudent

Well, here's an update: I've been going at it for 3 hours now, 3 1 gallon buckets filled with honey... And, haven't seen any brood yet! They are in an eve OUTSIDE the house! And I've been cutting from the inside out... Kinda stuck as of right now, don't think it can be done tonight. So, can I leave it exposed? I can't post any pics right now


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## biggraham610

Oh boy.....


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## texanbelchers

Y'all are assuming he can wait for Spring. I've had several calls like "take them out or I'm going to spray because ..."

Yes, he is enthusiastic, but there are a lot worse things a 15 year old could be doing.


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## Dan the bee guy

Oh my . Don't start a all day job just before it gets dark. They should be fine just make sure you give all the honey back to them.


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## Billboard

Getting interesting. ..


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## beestudent

Yeah... Should I give them the honey now? It was all capped, and now I saw a bunch up in the wall, we are coming back tomorrow to finish it, but we're still here right now...


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## Dan the bee guy

If you can put it in a frame when your done try that if not feed it back like you would sugar water.


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## Agis Apiaries

I just love Beestudent. He asks if he should do it. The vast majority say "no", wait until Spring. Beestudent does it anyhow. :scratch: So, why ask in the first place?

Quite entertaining! opcorn:


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## Dan the bee guy

Agis Apiaries said:


> I just love Beestudent. He asks if he should do it. The vast majority say "no", wait until Springs. Beestudent does it anyhow. :scratch: So, why ask in the first place?
> 
> Quite entertaining! opcorn:


Learning by doing sometimes that's the best way.


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## beestudent

Well, we packed up for the night, gonna come back tomorrow and try again... Were gonna bring equipment for getting into that eve because all we could get to was honey at this point, and now you can say "I told you so" ...........


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## Billboard

They told you not to do it.......


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## beestudent

Yeah, well, the city had been notified, as the bees were bothering the neighbors, and they were gonna have someone come in and get them anyway, not next year to boot, so I figured, do it now, combine, feed like crazy, and hope they live...


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## biggraham610

beestudent said:


> combine,


That's all needed to hear. Good Luck. (don't forget the pinch part) G


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## RayMarler

beestudent said:


> Yeah, well, the city had been notified, as the bees were bothering the neighbors, and they were gonna have someone come in and get them anyway, not next year to boot, so I figured, do it now, combine, feed like crazy, and hope they live...


Yep, if you didn't get them someone else would, so glad you doing it, you get the prize of bees. Good luck tomorrow!


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## jwcarlson

Had the same thing happen in a barn last year about 20 feet up. "bees been here a month" got up saw all honey after cutting and vacuuming outside comb. Walked away. At least you got their winter stores. They should be real happy when you go say good morning tomorrow.  Who's paying to fix what you're tearing into?

Beestudent, you started a cutout of unknown size and scope 1.5 hours or so before their bedtime... Come on. 



texanbelchers said:


> Yes, he is enthusiastic, but there are a lot worse things a 15 year old could be doing.


That is absolutely true. Some of us just don't want to see him join the scrap heap of enthusiastic newbies that used to have bees.


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## biggraham610

jwcarlson said:


> Some of us just don't want to see him join the scrap heap of enthusiastic newbies that used to have bees.


That's why we keep responding. Pinch and combine what you get, call it a day. I didn't think about that, you got all their stores tonite, and are going to pay them a visit tomorrow. Better take your veil.  G


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## beestudent

jwcarlson said:


> Had the same thing happen in a barn last year about 20 feet up. "bees been here a month" got up saw all honey after cutting and vacuuming outside comb. Walked away. At least you got their winter stores. They should be real happy when you go say good morning tomorrow.  Who's paying to fix what you're tearing into?
> 
> Beestudent, you started a cutout of unknown size and scope 1.5 hours or so before their bedtime... Come on.
> 
> That is absolutely true. Some of us just don't want to see him join the scrap heap of enthusiastic newbies that used to have bees.





biggraham610 said:


> That's why we keep responding. Pinch and combine what you get, call it a day. I didn't think about that, you got all their stores tonite, and are going to pay them a visit tomorrow. Better take your veil.  G


so, what im getting from this they will be EXCEPTIONALLY tick'd tomorrow, am I hearing right? gonna come at this thing at a whole different angle, with my newly built beevac as of tonight, and come at it from the outside on a large extension ladder, and vac as many bees as i can. I have 1 deep box, 1 medium, and 1 super, (all the ready equipment i had on hand at the time,) and I hope it'll be enough for the brood, as honey will be hard to strap into the comb. to who is paying to fix it, the house is an abandoned house a man bought, the house has been abandoned for 4 years now and he has been doing major renovation, and he found the bees,. so, am i missing anything?


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## Barry

beestudent said:


> They are in an eve OUTSIDE the house! And I've been cutting from the inside out...


All eves are on the outside of the house! I guess we can rule out the gable end of a gable roof eve as you would not have any access to the eve from the inside. If you notice how roof eves are built, one has limited access from the inside. You'll need to remove the soffit material, and in some cases the fascia. I have rarely needed to remove the fascia board. Usually there is a gutter mounted to it anyway. Be prepared for some comb to be torn as you pull the soffit board down, right above your head if you're working from a ladder.

Words a seasoned bee remover never says, "it should be easy"!


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## Barry

beestudent said:


> so, am i missing anything?


Every bee removal you do, you will learn what you're missing and be better prepared the next time.

Things I take with me on bee removals are:

ladders
beevac with 35' of hose
all my beekeeping tools (veil, suit, gloves, etc.)
food grade buckets with lids for honeycomb
5 gal. buckets for wash water (sponge)
thin rubber gloves
stack of old towels
several dropcloth
aluminum trim coil stock
string/wire
aluminum work platform
extra hive bodies and honey supers with empty frames
This all gets put in my truck that already carries all my construction equipment (saws, drills, cords, etc.)


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## Mr.Beeman

Prepare to get lit up by the bees. Removals are not any fun this time of year. I shut down removals around August 1st because they will act like africanized bees after that. In our neck of the woods, I'd wait till spring.


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## MariahK

If you just built the vacuum last night I would advise you to check inside at the bee's and adjust the suction as nessary, also depending on the style. If in a bucket. Empty often! I only let them pile up an inch otlr tsp before I thump and dump them.


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## jwcarlson

I really really really wish you were streaming this, Beestudent. 

Good deal on it being abandoned. I tell everyone "I don't do finish work, but I'll be as gentle as I can and close up holes the best I can."
Unless you're cutting out a colony hanging on the inside of an abandoned barn wall with no inside studs/wall at chest height... all cut outs are a colossal time sink. They are not easy, they're a mess. There's a good reason that guys like Mr. Beeman have made a little niche business out of it. They do good work, they know what you're doing, and they do it right.


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## Billboard

Sounds like he might be over his head on this one. I could be wrong but......


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## Mr.Beeman

We are all in over our head on the first one.....sometimes the second.... but by the third we got a pretty good handle on the removals. Or so we think.
After a couple of hundred, it's second nature.


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## MariahK

Mr.Beeman said:


> We are all in over our head on the first one.....sometimes the second.... but by the third we got a pretty good handle on the removals. Or so we think.
> After a couple of hundred, it's second nature.



I cant wait ive done 5 and enjoyed each one they are a real learning experience. Plus I got a couple of nice hives/queens from them. I am hoping I can get them through the winter.


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## beestudent

well, here's what happened...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3sRsRzrX0Q pt 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EjncH70r_A pt 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IaF939w_9Q pt 3


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## jwcarlson

Gotta work on your reaction to stings. Thank God you weren't 30 feet up. And the constant swatting around and flicking of your hands is a terrible habit! Not done with 3rd part yet, didnt you go back today?


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## biggraham610

Im kinda went through em quick. Seen the lights go out, whats the update Beestudent? G


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## jwcarlson

Part 3 turned into the sawzall show there for awhile, then lights out. I love the part where you say to your dad "Well, they're getting (you know, p-word)!" 

As though their reaction to having a grizzly bear with power tools stealing all their honey well into the night was unreasonable. 

Looking forward to hearing how it turned out, there looked to be a good sized nest there, not a ton of bees though. Wonder if they swarmed recently?


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## biggraham610

I think he may be uploading the second episode...............:waiting:


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## beestudent

jwcarlson said:


> Gotta work on your reaction to stings. Thank God you weren't 30 feet up. And the constant swatting around and flicking of your hands is a terrible habit! Not done with 3rd part yet, didnt you go back today?


that wasn't constant swatting, was pulling boards off the wall to get at the hive...


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## beestudent

also, did'nt do much today, had the new beevac built,tested, didn't work right... had the bees being stuck on the screen, will have to try something different...:waiting:


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## biggraham610

So you acted like a bear, stole their honey and walked away.......:no:

(before you tell me, i know bears are more interested in the protein provided by brood, than calories provided by honey. )


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## Billboard

jwcarlson said:


> Looking forward to hearing how it turned out, there looked to be a good sized nest there, not a ton of bees though. Wonder if they swarmed recently?


Beestudent split them before butchering up the poor beehive....


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## Billboard

beestudent said:


> also, did'nt do much today, had the new beevac built,tested, didn't work right... had the bees being stuck on the screen, will have to try something different...:waiting:


Thats what happens when you send a boy to do a mans job.


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## RayMarler

That's how boys grow into men. He's doing fine, I'm hanging on to hear how it all turns out.


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## jwcarlson

beestudent said:


> that wasn't constant swatting, was pulling boards off the wall to get at the hive...


You yelped and ran away when you got stung. And on multiple occasions you turnes and faced the camera trying to get honey or stingers out of you gloves. Or flinging stuff off. Just watch the video. 

Regarding the rest of the story. :/


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## Mr.Beeman

You need to work on the way you talk to people. Disrespectful is an understatement. I couldn't stand to listen to it anymore on the third vid so I turned it off.


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## jwcarlson

RayMarler said:


> That's how boys grow into men.


I'm not saying that making mistakes aren't part of the growing process. It certainly is... 
All we are saying is that the process for successfully keeping bees, doing cutout, even the timing is more readily available and accessible than it has ever been. With a little discretion you can sort the bad from the good and follow a plan. I think beestudent will eventually "get it", he just thinks it's easy and that his actions have no consequences. They do, kind of wonder if the three people here who said he was going to get lit up going back spooked him into regrouping. He obviously doesn't like being stung.

Anyway, Ray, you can go look at his previous posts... There's a history of ignoring advice and bad decisions. At one point beestudent, a first year bee haver, made a post stating that he had "Built Michael Palmer's sustainable apiary" and wanted to know what was next. He hasn't even had a colony survive the winter yet... I fear January thru April is going to be very tough on whatever colonies he takes into winter.


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## Barry

beestudent said:


> well, here's what happened...


Appears a lot of bees are going to die. Looks like you're cutting out honeycomb with bees on it and putting it in a bucket. I'd suggest you either vac or brush the bees off the comb before putting it into a bucket. The honey will be draining out of the comb and cover the bees in honey. Becomes a real mess.


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## biggraham610

I agree. G


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## jwcarlson

Mr.Beeman said:


> You need to work the way you talk to people.


I was going to say something similar. My dad would have hopped in the truck and let me figure out how to get home on my own if I were speaking to him like that.


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## biggraham610

Mine would still knock me off the ladder then hop in the truck............... he's 81 and I'm 47............


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## MariahK

Wow ok I forced myself to watch all of the video's. You really need to not talk down to people, and be so rude. Second you are a beginner and that's ok don't try to talk like you know it all, cause you don't and it makes you sound ignorant and makes watching your video hard. Second listen to people when they give you advise, not just the people on this board. You are young and I promise you do not know as much as you think you do!. As for future cut outs, get buckets with lids vacuum the bee's off the honey and put in bucket, then cover with lid. This saves bee lives and makes getting the honey crushed and strained so much easier! Second have water and wash your gloves often, saves bee lives. And makes it easier. I use yellow dish gloves and bring spares. There is probably more I could add but honestly you don't listen and your video was just irratating


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## Agis Apiaries

Dan the bee guy said:


> Learning by doing sometimes that's the best way.


No. Learning by succeeding because you listened to good advice is the best way. Failing repeatedly because you won't listen to advice isn't worth so much.


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## squarepeg

the suspense is killing me. 

did you get them hived beestudent?


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## Billboard

No he never went back. He butchard the hive stole the honey and didn't go back.


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## biggraham610

That would be my guess since his is actively on another thread and does not have anything to say about this one. G


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## RayMarler

Yea, newbee needs to listen and follow advice from those more experienced. I admire his enthusiasm, but it needs to be tempered with taking the cotton out of ears and putting it in mouth, as the saying goes. Title of thread is "need some advice". Really? Then why not follow said advice when it's given by multiple people?

Disrespect from a young person to an older person, especially a parent, is not good. I'd have gotten slapped silly and spanked hard for that when I was a teen. As a matter of fact, disrespect to anyone at all is a sorry trait to have. Won't get far in the world with that.


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## squarepeg

hmm. i didn't have time to watch the videos, and what few snippets i looked at were with the volume off. but if all this is true it's sad for those bees and maybe even more sad for this young man.

beestudent, it may not be our place to do so but i hope you'll give some consideration to what is being said here. life sometimes presents us with crossroads and this could very well be one of times for you if you are wise enough to act on it. 

for what it's worth i didn't have anyone pointing these things out to me when i was young and i recognize in you some of how i was at that time in my life. further, i know it's hard to read some of these posts but i guarantee you that none of the folks here are sitting back with a huge grin on their face and taking enjoyment out of berating you.

you'll not find a better resource than this community which is full of knowledgeable beekeepers who are very generous with their willingness to help others along. i am very appreciative for that and owe most of what i have learned to them.

i am going to say to you what i wish someone would have said to me a long time ago, and that is you have a choice today to continue being impulsive, disrespectful, unteachable, and handing out 'expert' know-it-all advice as a novice rather than letting the true experts do so, 

or you can look up the meaning of the word 'humility', memorize it, and make it your guiding principle. a part of that means showing respect even when it may not be deserved, but doing so demonstrates strong character.


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## Mike Gillmore

RayMarler said:


> Disrespect from a young person to an older person, especially a parent, is not good.


I haven't watched all the videos, and after reading some of the responses, do not plan to watch any more of them. If this is how he interacts with a parent, we should not expect anything different toward beekeepers trying to give sound advice. 

Some people, through their own choices, are destined to struggle in life.


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## RayMarler

I based my reply in post 74 from what was said in posts 67, 68, 69, I did not watch all the videos myself either, it looked to disorganised and unprepared from what little I did watch.


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## MariahK

is anyone else as disgusted as I am that he hasn't gone back? He has doomed that hive but he took all that "grade A Honey" as he kept calling it. Makes me sick, I saw on another thread he said his bee vac is not working right and until it is he is not going back!! That boy needs to grow a pair and finish what he started.


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## biggraham610

MariahK said:


> is anyone else as disgusted as I am that he hasn't gone back? He has doomed that hive but he took all that "grade A Honey" as he kept calling it. Makes me sick, I saw on another thread he said his bee vac is not working right and until it is he is not going back!! That boy needs to grow a pair and finish what he started.


:thumbsup: X2


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## MTN-Bees

X3- it's just plain wrong, but predictable.


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## cavscout

Hmm he took down the video's before I had a chance to watch them.


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## jwcarlson

My guess is he got a heavy dose of reality the last week or so. Failed cutout that wasn't really even a cutout... just a hatchet job on the honey stores. Probably getting a dose of reality of what it's like when the flow tapers off and you're split your colonies and jacked with your colonies to the point of having box after box of half drawn comb devoid of bees and putting the pieces back together.

Also, I suspect he started school again, which has probably cut into his free time quite a bit even though according to his profile his occupation is "Beekeeper of course".


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## j.kuder

beestudent said:


> well, here's what happened...
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3sRsRzrX0Q pt 1
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EjncH70r_A pt 2
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IaF939w_9Q pt 3


ah come on
I wanted to see this why did you take it down. I was looking forward to a good laugh


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## aunt betty

In OP's defense this spring I made a video of installs. I took the wrong end off the cage and quick-released the queen I was working on who flew down into the yard. My buddy found it. I destroyed the evidence (footage) and moved on.  It never happened, this is just a story and you can't prove anything.  

I quit making videos until I am MUCH more experienced.


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## Dan the bee guy

Agis Apiaries said:


> No. Learning by succeeding because you listened to good advice is the best way. Failing repeatedly because you won't listen to advice isn't worth so much.


I guess he learned he was way in over his head. Then I didn't get to see his video.


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