# First cut out question



## Tim Bates (Mar 13, 2012)

So, I found an old gas tank in the woods full of bees. After an unsuccessful attempt at vacuuming the bees out I covered the tank with garbage bags and brought it home. The bees seem to be doing their thing in the tank, they have been here for two days now. They are pulling out a lot of larvae and dead bees. My question is should I try to extract them from the tank now or let them settle. My wife thinks let them settle. If do extract I have an option of using tin snips or a grinder to cut the tank open. I will be moving them to a TBH. Thanks in advance for any help and or direction


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## robherc (Mar 17, 2012)

Tin snips, if they'll work, are HUGELY preferable! The noise from the grinder will likely get you COVERED in extremely unhappy bees; not to mention what the heat might do to the bees/comb inside the the tank.
As far as now vs later, you're going to be severely disturbing/distressing them either way, so I'd vote for "get it over with now, so they can start recovering and rebuilding sooner."

That said, good luck, and welcome to the forums.


...just my $0.02


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## Bsweet (Apr 9, 2010)

Does the tank have a filler neck/tube ? If so I would either do a trap out direct into the TBH or leave them alone and set up some swarm traps. Don't know how well tin snips would work and a grinder is gonna throw alot of hot/sharp metal around inside the tank whick could kill the queen. JM2CW.


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## Tim Bates (Mar 13, 2012)

The tank is rotted on the bottom creating a whole about the size of a football or so. Got the TBH close was planning on setting a couple swarm traps around the yard. Is there a such thing as having traps to close or further away is better. 

I also have a nuc coming in about 2 weeks from a local.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

Best build another TBH. I'd try to trap them out, but the rotten bottom does have potential if you have a good bee suit. I have traps close to hives, on other side of fence, over on the trailer, and across the street. The only one that didn't catch a swarm from my cutout was across the street.

Gypsi


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## Tim Bates (Mar 13, 2012)

I have 3 mediums and a deep built for the nuc. Planning on building more mediums and at least another TBH just in case more bees come along. I just need to find some more free wood.  Tossing an idea around about building a screen cylinder around the gas tank (asside from the football hole there are smaller rotted holes also) and funnel them into my TBH, you think funnel in the back with a front entrance or to the front with a top entrance.


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## standman (Mar 14, 2008)

I will admit my own impatient nature when I say this, but I would cut them out and get on with it. If the tank is that rotted, it should not take much to make a hole large enough to work in. If you have the choice, cut off one end, as the queen is less likely to be on the outside comb. If you get some eggs or very young larvae transferred into a frame (much easier in the deep than the TBH), take a deep breath and relax. Even if you miss or kill the queen, they can raise another.


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## robherc (Mar 17, 2012)

I'm with standman there...if it's that rusted out, you should be able to EASILY cut it with snips, or at the very worst a hacksaw....then you can do your cutout & get on with enjoying your bees (might even be able to stock 2 hives with it if there's enough brood in there)


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## Tim Bates (Mar 13, 2012)

Yeah I was kinda thinking if I was gonna relocate I needed to do it now rather than let them completely rebuild now and then rebuild/repair when I get them transferred. Will let y'all know how it goes.


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## nbarlow123 (Apr 5, 2012)

Tim I'm in the same situation as you. Mine are still in the tank. Have you cut them out yet? If so how'd it go? Also in louisiana you have to register your hive annually and I've read we can only use langsworth hives with removable frames. You can get the registration form and the model beekeeping ordinance at this site www.lsuagcenter.com


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## Tim Bates (Mar 13, 2012)

nbarlow123: 
I did open the tank. I cut the seams of the tank, this is the flat part going around the tank if you look at it it will look like a seam, with a metal blade in a jig saw, I'm sure a reciprocating saw would have been better but I didn't have one(but it's on my list now). If you get this seam cut the tank will come apart. If I had it to do again the gas tank would have stayed in the woods and I would have put swarm traps in the area around it. In the tank I have there are three compartments. The tank was completely full of comb mostly old dark comb. I will not even try to guess the number of bees inside but it is a lot. I still have a lot of bees that want to stay with both sections of the tank rather than get into their new home. At this point I am hoping for the best. There was a lot of honey storage in there and a lot of brood comb, a lot of drones, fireants, and roaches, all living in harmony, just crazy. I am still working on one half of the tank removing comb. It is just messy and very time consuming by yourself. 
Needless to say next time someone tells me they have a gas tank full of bees I will turn and run away. A good Bee vac will definatly help, mine will be redisigned before I attempt this again. I like McCartney Taylor"s concrete tube idea and I also like Bushkills bee vac if your going to put them in a Lang. 

If you go here http://www.legis.louisiana.gov/lss/tsrssearch.htm and look for RS 3:2301-2311 you'll find state laws. I did not see anything about types of hives. I guess they forgot to tell the bees where they could put their home.


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## nbarlow123 (Apr 5, 2012)

Are you transferring the comb or just the bees?


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

Tim Bates.... ( "Needless to say next time someone tells me they have a gas tank full of bees I will turn and run away." )

Why would you turn and run away. Gas tanks and trees are the easiest places to put a trap , and get three or four starts from it. Then next year four more and the next year four more , and the next year, and the next year............. A good gas tank full of bees is worth its weight in gold. 

cchoganjr


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## Tim Bates (Mar 13, 2012)

Both but mainly as much worker brood as I can get in there. I'm not so much worried about drone brood but they all are needed and have a job to do. If you don't get the queen out or if you accidently kill her they have a better chance if you can find fresh brood to put in there, from what I can read anyway. I know you can requeen but I'd rather not, I have only been stung twice from them on the hand. The first time I didn't know the bee was there and squished her and I think the second was a reaction to the pheromone because it was in the same spot. We have another hive that is fairly aggressive.


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## Tim Bates (Mar 13, 2012)

Cleo:

"If I had it to do again the gas tank would have stayed in the woods and I would have put swarm traps in the area around it."

What I was meaning was I would not do a cut out on it again I would put swarm traps out. I have a friend now that has some about 20 foot up in a tree and that's what I am trying to convince her to do is catch them in swarm traps rather than cut them out.

I also have 3 swarm traps here in the yard just in case they get tired of me trying to make them move.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

Why would you put swarm traps out in the woods and at best be hit or miss on catching any swarms they may or may not throw. Put a swarm harvester on it, (build it yourself,) and you are guaranteed to get bees. Use that tank as a never ending supply of new starts.

cchoganjr


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## Tim Bates (Mar 13, 2012)

No clue about "swarm harvester" until now. Just did a google search and found out you are the inventor. Sounds like something I should have found out about Thursday before I opened the tank.  I may be able to put the tank back together requeen what I have transfered and let the tank rebuild and use a swarm harvester. What would be your suggestion? I am in no way experienced just trying.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

I would leave them in the tank. Great way to get good stock of bees.

You don't need to be experienced to use the harvester and trap bees. It is simple and easy.

Send me an e-mail [email protected] and I will send you instructions and color photos of actual traps in progress. You can build the harvester yourself from old equipment, 10 frame, 8 frame, or nuc. Great way to increase your hive count each year.

cchoganjr


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

speaking of swarm harvesters, I need to go check on mine in the late afternoon tomorrow maybe. Real work cleared my mind and ate my days.


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## Tim Bates (Mar 13, 2012)

@Cleo
just sent you an email.
Thanks.


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## robherc (Mar 17, 2012)

nbarlow123 said:


> Also in Louisiana ... I've read we can only use langsworth hives with removable frames.


I just looked up all the LA apiary laws I could find on your state's website, and found absolutely no mention of any legal/illegal hive designs. I didn't even find any notes anywhere about having to be a "movable comb" or "movable frame" type (which I expected to find). The only reference of I found was in the definitions:


> _Frame_--a wooden of plastic case for holding honeycomb


..along with a couple miscellaneous references to "hive bodies," "top boards," and "bottom boards," in sections dealing with control of diseas & control of transportation of bee-related equipment...those could all be attributed to having been used out of convenience, however, as Langstroth hives were pretty much the exclusive equipment in use at the time of writing.


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## Tim Bates (Mar 13, 2012)

Yea I didn't either in the states law. However on the labeekeepers.org and LSUagcenter.com there is a "Model Beekeeping Ordinance for Local and Municipal Governments" that does reference Langstroth Hives it was created or last modified in 2009 I believe. But.... as it says this is a model for Local Municipalities and Governments. I wish it wasn't there but it is. It is not law now but with that lingering it could be. I'm going to resist getting on my soap box about government restrictions.


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## nbarlow123 (Apr 5, 2012)

Big brother likes controll and its getting worse. It also says queens must be marked and the hives must be available for inspection anytime. Even if you are a hobbist not a business. Tim my cutout went horrible once I opened the tank it was infested with shb. The bees left the next day. So I guess I'll be buying a package.


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## Tim Bates (Mar 13, 2012)

Sorry to hear that, mine has SHB, roaches, and fire ants. The fire ants are gone since I moved the hive. I guess the bees were just keeping everything in check. I put mine back together and resisted the urge to fool with them until I can build a set up like Mr. Hogan talked about. I got a Nuc in today, if you can't find anyone down that way there is a guy that lives by me he sells Nucs and breeds queens. Minnesota Hybrid are the bees he uses.


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