# Methods for Finding the Queen in a Swarm



## ScienceGirl (Oct 24, 2014)

Many recommend caging the queen if you can find her, but how do you find the queen in a swarm?

Where will she be in the swarm?

I've had difficulty finding helpful information on this, but have found information that would help you know whether you have captured the queen in your box. According to backyardhive.com , after shaking the swarm into a container, the workers will gravitate towards the queen, whether she is in the container or remains on the branch. Additionally, the bees by the queen will scent to attract the others.


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

I would not say many recommend caging the queen. just more computer nonsense. put the swarm in a hive. easy


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

You don't need to find her if you're talking about a cluster hanging from a branch. Just tap and drop making sure they fall into the swarm box. If the very center of the cluster falls into the box, you probably got her. You'll know soon if you got her because the rest of the bees will start to go into the box. If you didn't, then you need to start over.


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## ScienceGirl (Oct 24, 2014)

I tapped the main cluster into a box and carried it the five feet to its new home. The bees in the air still went to the branch, but the bees in the new hive were scenting. I repeated the "tap and drop" several times and by dusk, only about 10 bees remained on the branch. None of them were the queen.

The next day, along with their orientation flights, they visited the same tree branch. I guess there must have been residual pheromones there.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Charlie, as vice president of the San Francisco Bee club, maybe you could schedule a speaker to teach the members how to shoot and post pictures right side up.


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

C


ScienceGirl said:


> The next day, along with their orientation flights, they visited the same tree branch. I guess there must have been residual pheromones there.


Yes, you're right, it is the remaining pheromone. If the clustering branch is small enough, I always cut it off and take it with the swarm box. If it's too big, I spray it with ammonia. That gets then in the box a lot faster.

Sorry about the pic, I don't know what I'm doing wrong.


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## Beregondo (Jun 21, 2011)

Where will the queen be?

Buried in that mass of bees.

With a swarm it is not unlikely to lthat she is a virgin, and hard to distinguish from the workers.

Yod don't even need to hit the box you brought to put the swarm in when you shake them if it.has had bees in it before...if the swarm drops within a foot or two of it with the box on the ground, just turn the box so.that the entrance faces the bees and that usually will all just march right in.

How do you find the queen?
Wait until another day, when she has had a chance to lay eggs, and look for her as you would on any other hive inspection.

On the day you collect them into the box, there's no need to find her.

Have fun.
Enjoy your bees.


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## Eric Crosby (Jan 4, 2015)

I agree with the other that finding her is not necessary. If they are opening their Nasanov glands and fanning then you have her. however there are some instances where you may want to locate her especially if you believe that there may be more than one Virgin in the swarm and catching that extra Virgin may be of value to you. I Think it boils down to practice. The practice of visually differentiating types of movement. The Virgin will run more quickly over or through the other bees then the bulk of the population. mated queens will move distinctly different from the virgins. if you watch the series on you tube of skep bee keeping in a heather apiary ( in Lower Saxony). They catch the virgins in swarms in their skeps all the time (used to).


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

Got your back Charlie...


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## gezellig (Jun 11, 2014)

If you wanted to find her, couldn't you tap the cluster into a box with a queen excluder on top?


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## BackYardPhenomena (Jul 11, 2012)

I think it helps to find her and I usually cage her and place her in between one of the frames in the box. I have rarely found swarms attached to tree limbs or removable objects. Most of the time I have seen them on fences, buildings, and other locations that do no allow to easily shake the bees into a box. 

Because of this, I tend to scoop the bees with a hive tool and my hands slowly into the box watching both their movements and looking closely for the queen. As you get more experience, locating the queen gets easier and easier. 

I've caged the queen and put the majority of the bees in the box, but even still, there always remains a few bees that want to return to the original clustering site. One last thing-- once the majority of the bees are in the box I release the queen and then put some kind of queen excluder on the entrance. With my experience, swarms may not stay with queens in an excluder.. have returned to dead queens in cages when I've left them there. Allowing her to resume or start laying really helps the swarm take ownership of their new home.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Sometimes you see her and the indicator is a tight clump of bees. Rarely I see her walking around on the outside when I am messing with it or trying to hive it. Usually I don't see her. Often there are several queens.


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## GaryG74 (Apr 9, 2014)

You can put a queen excluder on top of the hive you're going to put the swarm into, put another box on top of the excluder and drop the swarm off the limb (if it's on one) and you'll see the queen or queens walking around on the excluder. Like Michael said, some swarms have more than one queen. I caught at least three last year that had two or more queens in them. If the swarm is low enough to watch for a few minutes, sometimes you can see the queen walking on the swarm. She will walk on the surface a little, then go into the cluster, then appear on the surface again. I also put a 6x9 ft drop cloth under hives I'm putting swarms in so I don't lose the queen in the grass. It also makes it easier for the bees to walk into the hive.


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