# Dead hives, does anyone notice this trend?



## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

I'm only going into my second year but all 15 of my hives made it through winter. Most of them are thriving except two which are slowly building up. Most, but not all second year beekeepers I know are telling me their hives are doing fine. Most of the 3rd, 4th and beyond year beekeepers hives are dead or dying at 50% or more. 

Is this because the equipment and comb has had a longer time to collect disease? If so, should we be rotating old comb out every two years? What about boxes? This would get very expensive on your 3rd year of beekeeping.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

You better also change out that stained Ultrabreeze jacket, hive tools, extracting equipment, gloves, shoes, clothing, gravel on your rooftop, hive stands etc. They also have accumulated disease. Maybe just switch to topbar or Warre hives in which you will trash half your comb annually as part of the management. I know of a first year beginner with brand new boxes, plastic foundation and a Koehnen package that lost his hive. I inspected his hive with his hive tool and smoker and left my jacket on the ground nearby. Do you think I contaminated his hive? 

I feel sorry for the folks who bought dot com stocks and lost them all in 2000, they didn't know the dot coms would crash. I feel sorry for the folks who bought their real estate in height of the 2006+/- market and got foreclosed on. They didn't know there would be a subprime mortgage fiasco causing the real estate values to crash. But all the beginners beekeepers who bought into the recent beekeeping mania - THEY KNEW THE BEES WERE DIEING and that is why they got beehives!!!. Welcome to the brave new world of mites, CCD, and viruses. Mann Lake, Kelly, Dadant etc. are dancing all the way to the bank.


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

odfrank said:


> You better also change out that stained Ultrabreeze jacket,


Never, I refuse to give up my Ultrabreeze!


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## MichaelShantz (May 9, 2010)

I know of three feral hives nearby, all in hollow oak trees. They never seem to die out. One's been active for at least 4 years, the others I discovered more recently. No Ultrabreeze has ever been anywhere near these hives.


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## CaBees (Nov 9, 2011)

What are you assuming killed the bees? Mites? Moths? other?

If it is mites from what I've learned 85% are in the brood cells. Maybe we should be encouraging our bees to swarm into new hives so they create new brood cells and leave most of the mites behind....

I am a newbie so not much to offer. My neighbor lost her hive...two deeps with full frames...no bees, maybe 2 dead bodies inside. She will harvest the honey, take a look at some of the brood cells and see what she sees. It was a 2 year old hive that went into the winter strong; lots of activity...just died or went away or ? Maybe lost their queen? Why no dead bodies...?

She did not treat for anything...


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

So far I have had the least dieback in probably 8 or ten years, 12%. That's 12% of 500 colonies. But, we aren't out of the woods yet.


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## beyondthesidewalks (Dec 1, 2007)

I"m having a great survival rate so far but we've kind of skipped winter, going straight from fall to spring. Bees are building up here. Today it's 70+. I'm getting excited.


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> So far I have had the least dieback in probably 8 or ten years, 12%. That's 12% of 500 colonies.


12% is pretty good. How often do you change out equipment/comb or do you ever?


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

i am inclined to think the older queens had something to do with it rather than equipment


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## CaBees (Nov 9, 2011)

sqkcrk: do you treat your hives? You are in NY? Have you checked all of your hives? This winter was mild, correct? Is there still snow on the ground?

How about you, BeyondTheSidewalk (BTS?)  Treat or non treat?

I intuitively could bet age of hive has something to do with it (& queen; players) and perhaps even the urban landscape?

How do you all feel about your mite load being passed on to neighborhood hives and/or being responsible for spreading mites since you don't treat? True or untrue?

Also is it just the last ? years bees have lost their natural defense against mites because of being treated, weakened? (or so that is the theory...).

That is what I'm 'hearing' out there.....interesting concepts...


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## Ted Kretschmann (Feb 2, 2011)

Charlie, I used to pollinate crops in Cali. So tell me if this is true. They had too many bees this year in the Almonds-a surplus of colonies with no place to go!! So if that is an indicator of bee health. Then bees are doing better across the nation. TED


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

I had about 200 hives in October. I’ve only lost three…so far. It is still way too early to tell. I’m scrambling to keep them all fed. I’ve never had to do this. I expect to begin seeing swarms, if I don’t get my act together, by early March. A month earlier than usual. All that aside, you know what concerns me most? Usually we see a winter broodless period. I don’t think we had one this winter. I don’t usually do a spring mite treatment, but I’ll begin treating for mites in the next week. 
You want to know what nails those second, third and fourth year hives? I’m betting most times it’s varroa. 
In my opinion, too many beginning beekeepers don’t do any real mite control.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Ted Kretschmann said:


> Charlie, I used to pollinate crops in Cali. So tell me if this is true. They had too many bees this year in the Almonds-a surplus of colonies with no place to go!! So if that is an indicator of bee health. Then bees are doing better across the nation. TED


I am not out there but I have quite a few hives out there. The reports I hear are that there are more bees this year than last and more last year than the year before (does three years make a trend?) It's kind of anyone's guess, though, if there were actually too many bees. I would bet that almost all of the good hives found homes and probably a much lower percentage of the, ahem, "field run" bees were placed.


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

Ted Kretschmann said:


> Charlie, I used to pollinate crops in Cali. So tell me if this is true. They had too many bees this year in the Almonds-a surplus of colonies with no place to go!! So if that is an indicator of bee health. Then bees are doing better across the nation. TED


I only know a few pollinators. Most folks I talk to are sideliners and hobbyist but from what I hear in the commercial world, bees are flourishing overall. I think the winter we've had here, or lack there of is the only reason my hives all made it. It certainly wasn't because of me.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Charlie B said:


> 12% is pretty good. How often do you change out equipment/comb or do you ever?


No much. Not very often. I haven't added any new frames and foundation in a number of years. I did get some "new" comb in 2009. A beekeeper gave me quite a bit of bee equipment which had not been used for quite a few years. I don't know what varroa control materials may have been used on them.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

CaBees said:


> sqkcrk: do you treat your hives? You are in NY? Have you checked all of your hives? This winter was mild, correct? Is there still snow on the ground?
> 
> How about you, BeyondTheSidewalk (BTS?)  Treat or non treat?
> 
> ...


My bees winter in South Carolina. I went down there last week, went thru all of them, reversed many of them, added a third deep to the strong ones, fed HFCS to anything w/ a feeder whether they needed it or not.

Yes, I treat my hives. They get a strip installed right when I take off the last honey supers. I don't take off honey and then return to install strips. I do it during the same visit to the yard.

Most of my hives have "old" queens. Last year, in March and April I split most of my live colonies to replace deadouts and to make about 100 five frame nucs, so that would put a lot of Spring 2011 queens into the outfit. Then in late June I split another 80 colonies w/ queens. So, yes, there are quite a few youngish queens in my outfit.

Mites get around whether one treats or not. I don't know if bees have "natural defense against mites". I'm going to do what I need to to maintain my colonies and myself. I do this for a living. "Live and Let Die" beekeeping isn't anything I care to try anymore. Been there done that. Got the tee shirt. Got the scars.


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

I think here In Canada we will see varroa numbers climb faster in the spring for those who winter outdoors. Again, still too early to tell on actual hive numbers. Still have just over a month to go before we can actually work hives. But since it has been so warm, I have checked and had to add feed to hives which were well fed in the fall. Some of the hives have piles of bees. I think we will see swarming earlier, and varroa problems earlier. Those of us who have checked in with the our provincial apiarists are being told to get a handle on the mites earlier than normal this spring.
We could come out the the starting gate really well this spring. What we do with the advantages thrown our way will depend on how we take care of the problems which could arise earlier than normal....swarms, varroa, noseama.


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## Fuzzy (Aug 4, 2005)

Charlie,

Lost 1 of 6 this year because the queen became a drone layer in Dec/Jan. This is the first hive loss in 4 yrs now.

"If so, should we be rotating old comb out every two years?" Perhaps we should be rotating out beekeepers instead 

I do slowly (4-5 yrs) rotate out comb. The boxes are forever. 

"Is this because the equipment and comb has had a longer time to collect disease?" Could be, but then I don't put ANY chemicals into my hives. I provide a home for homeless bees but it is their responsibility to maintain the structure in a sanitary manner.

Fuzzy


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## DoddCLN (Jul 6, 2014)

I'm a first year Bee Keeper, we just started in May when I built a Top Bar hive. I placed my hive in a little "nook" in the vegetation in the back yard that has a small tree in front of nook. It is not in low ground, but does have a large tree canopy above it. I though it would be a good location in that it was protected from wind and harsh direct Florida sunshine. I received #3 of bees (half were expired when we received them), placed them in the hive and they accepted the queen without issue. Hive has/was developing well until today when I went to give them syrup and did not notice normal activity at the doors to the hive. When I opened the hive, most (90%) of the ladies were gone, strange webbing stretched between the combs, many larvae where moving on the bottom screen. I now realize the hive must've swarmed off, right? 

I have seen a spider in the unused portion of the hive (the blocked off part), ants and some large beetles/palmetto bugs. Did I make a mistake in picking my location for the hive? I have another area that's at the base of a large tree, gets more direct sunlight that I could use.

Any thoughts would be appreciated. I know I must've done something wrong, just don't know what it was!


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

DoddCLN, the webbing may be wax moth damage:








photo credit

My guess is that your bees did not thrive, the colony size shrank and they were unable to defend against pests, including wax moths. The colony's remaining bees may have died or absconded, and the activity you saw recently was robbers cleaning out what stores remained.

Certainly location/shade can affect how well a hive prospers, but shade is probably not the primary issue your hive had.

If indeed half the bees in the original package were DOA, that colony started out with a serious handicap to begin with.


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## DoddCLN (Jul 6, 2014)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> DoddCLN, the webbing may be wax moth damage:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the post and photo - That is what the webbing looks like. Is there something to keep "visitors" out like wax moths, spiders palmetto bugs?

Chris


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

DoddCLN said:


> Thanks for the post and photo - That is what the webbing looks like. Is there something to keep "visitors" out like wax moths, spiders palmetto bugs?
> 
> Chris


High bee numbers. I know my neighbor lost a hive to wax moths. Low bee numbers and too much room to defend. G


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## DoddCLN (Jul 6, 2014)

biggraham610 said:


> High bee numbers. I know my neighbor lost a hive to wax moths. Low bee numbers and too much room to defend. G


That's probably it then, I started with 10 Bars and added 3 more, the combs had not developed ore than half the distance top to bottom or across. Thanks for the tip. Do I need to "clean the wax moth residue" out before starting over? Or, cut away the comb?

Chris


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

Im new but have read freezing the combs for 48 hrs will kill all stages of wax moth. The combs are reuseable but would think you should clean up the webbing and freeze the frames. This is a great link to all questions about beekeeping. Good Luck. G

http://www.bushfarms.com/bees.htm


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## tanksbees (Jun 16, 2014)

Charlie B said:


> I'm only going into my second year but all 15 of my hives made it through winter. Most of them are thriving except two which are slowly building up. Most, but not all second year beekeepers I know are telling me their hives are doing fine. Most of the 3rd, 4th and beyond year beekeepers hives are dead or dying at 50% or more.
> 
> Is this because the equipment and comb has had a longer time to collect disease? If so, should we be rotating old comb out every two years? What about boxes? This would get very expensive on your 3rd year of beekeeping.


3rd year beekeeper here with heavy losses.

Why? I started doing splits.

Nothing to do with old equipment.


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

tanksbees said:


> 3rd year beekeeper here with heavy losses.
> 
> Why? I started doing splits.
> 
> Nothing to do with old equipment.


What do you mean Tank? Late splits that failed to requeen? or you just oversplit? I should think splitting is a normal part of hive# boosting. What happened? G


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## tanksbees (Jun 16, 2014)

biggraham610 said:


> What do you mean Tank? Late splits that failed to requeen? or you just oversplit? I should think splitting is a normal part of hive# boosting. What happened? G


Some splits got weaker, some got knocked out by ants/robbing/yellow jackets.

Because I made a higher number of weaker hives, I had more losses. Similar story from one of my friends, he told me did a bunch of splits his 3rd or 4th year, bought all the grafting equipment, cloake board, queen castle, and ended up losing all his hives in the end. He got greedy, he even warned me about it as he was lending me all his queen rearing equipment.

The temptation for free bees is pretty high, so it's easy to over split, and hard to know how weak is too weak.

If I had to do it again I'd do mostly late season splits like fatbeeman, doing splits, especially walk away splits really stunts the growth of the hive at the wrong time.


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