# Best choice of queen



## Nicksotherhoney (Jun 10, 2017)

Not an old timer but I really like how the Caucasian bee looks. They’re a beautiful looking bee.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Nicksotherhoney said:


> Not an old timer but I really like how the Caucasian bee looks. They’re a beautiful looking bee.


A good horse is always the right color! Disposition and easy wintering would be my main concerns for my climate and forage.


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## mtnmyke (Apr 27, 2017)

It's like the best tool for the job is the one in your hand.

If you can find local bees that are regularly surviving your winters and doing what you want, it doesn't really matter what breed they are or how they look. If you really wanted to experiment, setup a few hives of each "breed" in question against some local survivor "mutts". I'd put my money on the mutts any day.

This is also coming from the guy who keeps a few hives of Cardovan Italians...they are just so yellow and cute.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Nc, you should try a few queens from Baynyard Bees. He advertises them as gentle, they would have no problem overwintering in North Carolina, and the honey production is not bad either. I favor the Carnis and Caucasian bees because that is what I believe I have. And my mutts have done well for me.


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

I think the best would be to breed from your best. I'm very leery of introducing outside genetics into my yard. However, if what I have is not satisfactory, I have purchased outside queens and give them a try. Once I find one that gives me the results I like in my yard with my management regime, then I breed from her and always then use the best in my yard to increase from, and also requeening any that do not perform up to my expected standards.


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

I've bought queens from many different sources. I've tried run of the mill Italians, Old Sol survivor queens, Caucasians & Canadian-Buckfasts from New River Honey bees and some other Carniolans and Buckfast from a beekeeper in MI, along with local queens from a 70 year old beekeeper. It is really interesting to see the different race characteristics in all of them. I no longer intentionally run full Italian colonies due to too much brood in the winter and having to feed in the coastal Virginia summers. I dearly love the gentle nature of the Buckfast bees and have bought a breeder queen this year to keep a pure line going but I also raise a fair number of queen cells from all the different stock so there is a large gene pool of drones for all the area beekeepers. I found my Caucasians didn't build up well naturally to take advantage of the early spring flow, although that was the only colony that made me any excess honey last year. The Buckfast are my top choice for gentle (even into the 3rd generation) and they make a good honey crop.


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## mtnmyke (Apr 27, 2017)

I honestly have no idea what breed my bees are. I have some that are very yellow and others that are tiger striped. My striped bees have taken over the yard as I selectively breed for traits I'm looking for in my area and those seem to be it. We have a terrible summer dearth so prefer bees that shrink down during that time, low robbing, but build up quickly in November when our first bloom comes around. By January, if you aren't at least 2 supers deep then something is wrong and you get replaced - after equalizing and giving everyone a chance of course.

I do bring in outside "premium" stock every year to test their traits. This year I'm trying Cardovan Italians (admittedly because they are adorable) as well as some Carniolans from the same supplier who mates their queens openly in their Cardovan yards...dark bees mated with blonde bees. I'm intrigued!

Here is a 4 year old queen mated on my property from a Saskatraz line. I lost all my Saskatraz queens (why is another topic) except the mother of this girl. Apparently her, mated with our local drones created some great stock! Don't mind my commentary. I didn't want to disturb the poor girl!


Santa Cruz Queen


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## Struttinbuck (Mar 8, 2020)

ruthiesbees said:


> I've bought queens from many different sources. I've tried run of the mill Italians, Old Sol survivor queens, Caucasians & Canadian-Buckfasts from New River Honey bees and some other Carniolans and Buckfast from a beekeeper in MI, along with local queens from a 70 year old beekeeper. It is really interesting to see the different race characteristics in all of them. I no longer intentionally run full Italian colonies due to too much brood in the winter and having to feed in the coastal Virginia summers. I dearly love the gentle nature of the Buckfast bees and have bought a breeder queen this year to keep a pure line going but I also raise a fair number of queen cells from all the different stock so there is a large gene pool of drones for all the area beekeepers. I found my Caucasians didn't build up well naturally to take advantage of the early spring flow, although that was the only colony that made me any excess honey last year. The Buckfast are my top choice for gentle (even into the 3rd generation) and they make a good honey crop.


I bought some Carnica virgins from Jason Bragg this spring. Hopefully I will be picking them up in April or May.
I love everything about my Caucasions and Russians except for the propolus from the Caucasions can be a little sticky, but more than worth it in the other traits. Once they get started they rock and roll.
My Russian mutts kept a cluster size of a softball all winter. And thats 3 hives of them. They really do overwinter very very well.


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## Struttinbuck (Mar 8, 2020)

mtnmyke said:


> I honestly have no idea what breed my bees are. I have some that are very yellow and others that are tiger striped. My striped bees have taken over the yard as I selectively breed for traits I'm looking for in my area and those seem to be it. We have a terrible summer dearth so prefer bees that shrink down during that time, low robbing, but build up quickly in November when our first bloom comes around. By January, if you aren't at least 2 supers deep then something is wrong and you get replaced - after equalizing and giving everyone a chance of course.
> 
> I do bring in outside "premium" stock every year to test their traits. This year I'm trying Cardovan Italians (admittedly because they are adorable) as well as some Carniolans from the same supplier who mates their queens openly in their Cardovan yards...dark bees mated with blonde bees. I'm intrigued!
> 
> ...


The link isnt working.


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## mtnmyke (Apr 27, 2017)

Try the link now.

And a lot of people love their Russians. I bought a couple queens about 8 years ago to try and it was a disaster! They were chasing us around the yard, attacking children during a birthday party and even attacked a fire truck with its sirens on, about 100 yards away. I had to wear 3 pairs of pants and a hoodie under my jacket with duct tape on my ankles and gloves to murder those queens. I'm pretty sure they mislabeled African bees as Russian. I still have that attack pheromones smell imprinted into my permanent, traumatized memory. I ended up splitting that entire hive into 2 frames nucs and introduced new queens.

I'm sure my experience was a little on the defensive side, but I hear a breeder keeps Russians and I run. I no longer want any part of that again!

I now work all my bees without a suit and as you see in the video, they are calm as cucumbers.


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## Struttinbuck (Mar 8, 2020)

mtnmyke said:


> Try the link now.
> 
> And a lot of people love their Russians. I bought a couple queens about 8 years ago to try and it was a disaster! They were chasing us around the yard, attacking children during a birthday party and even attacked a fire truck with its sirens on, about 100 yards away. I had to wear 3 pairs of pants and a hoodie under my jacket with duct tape on my ankles and gloves to murder those queens. I'm pretty sure they mislabeled African bees as Russian. I still have that attack pheromones smell imprinted into my permanent, traumatized memory. I ended up splitting that entire hive into 2 frames nucs and introduced new queens.
> 
> ...


Were they stapling your socks to your ankles?! Lol.
Yea, they have the like FDA approved Russians, then the mutt Russians like I have. The queens I got are jet black though. So I know they are not part of the FDA deal. And you need to get to know mine. If you move slow and dont need to get into their brood they are perfect. Once you get into the brood chamber your probably going to get stung. But not a crazy amount.


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## Struttinbuck (Mar 8, 2020)

What line of bees did you say your Queen was? Thats the first time I ever heard a bee going Bock,Bock right before she lays an egg! Lol!


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## LarryBud (Jul 19, 2020)

I'm planning on bringing in some F1 VSH Italian Queens this year and add them to splits. I'm hoping to spread the wealth through open breeding and am in the process of building up a few small out yards nearby. I'm looking to breed for mite resistance, build up, overwintering and then honey production. My current stock of Italians did show mite resistance, did over winter well and each of the hive produced at least a 100 # of excess. As a newer beek, I want to build up comb early this year and be able to introduce the VSH queens to new hives with lots of nurse bees taken from the donor hives the same day I get them. My area has only a limited number of beekeepers and no commercial or migratory so getting those F2 drones flying is important-gonna flood the zone .


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## mtnmyke (Apr 27, 2017)

Struttinbuck said:


> What line of bees did you say your Queen was? Thats the first time I ever heard a bee going Bock,Bock right before she lays an egg! Lol!


Haha!
Queens aren't the only ones with "attendants" everywhere they go!


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## adamf (Jan 28, 2006)

LarryBud said:


> I'm planning on bringing in some F1 VSH Italian Queens this year and add them to splits. I'm hoping to spread the wealth through open breeding and am in the process of building up a few small out yards nearby. I'm looking to breed for mite resistance, build up, overwintering and then honey production. My current stock of Italians did show mite resistance, did over winter well and each of the hive produced at least a 100 # of excess. As a newer beek, I want to build up comb early this year and be able to introduce the VSH queens to new hives with lots of nurse bees taken from the donor hives the same day I get them. My area has only a limited number of beekeepers and no commercial or migratory so getting those F2 drones flying is important-gonna flood the zone .


Breeding for mite resistance takes time. Testing for mite population growth and selecting the colonies that inhibit the growth, untreated, is the best way to get the resistant ones. You would be getting F1 drones from the F1 queens you are mentioning as the drone's genotype is one snapshot of it's mother's.
Adam


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## Kay_B (Mar 25, 2021)

My uncle has Carpathian bees. I do not know where he bought such a queen bee, but he says that Carpathian bees give a huge amount of honey. More than Italian. I do not know how easy it is to buy Carpathian bees in the USA, I only in theory asked my uncle what is better, which honey is more useful, and many other theoretical questions. He has been in the apiary 5 times in the last 7 years. It's a pity that I can't travel often and get hands-on experience in caring for bees.


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## n8app155 (Jun 3, 2020)

Nicksotherhoney said:


> Caucasian bee


we nave a few *Caucasian hives here and we love them.*


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## ncbeez (Aug 25, 2015)

Well, I couldn't get the carniolans locally like I originally wanted. However, I did drive to Georgia to a breeder that I have confidence in and got two queens that are caucasian/carniolan mix. Kinda excited about these since I have never had that combination of genes.


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## Gino45 (Apr 6, 2012)

mtnmyke said:


> Try the link now.
> 
> And a lot of people love their Russians. I bought a couple queens about 8 years ago to try and it was a disaster! They were chasing us around the yard, attacking children during a birthday party and even attacked a fire truck with its sirens on, about 100 yards away. I had to wear 3 pairs of pants and a hoodie under my jacket with duct tape on my ankles and gloves to murder those queens. I'm pretty sure they mislabeled African bees as Russian. I still have that attack pheromones smell imprinted into my permanent, traumatized memory. I ended up splitting that entire hive into 2 frames nucs and introduced new queens.
> 
> ...


I'm wondering where the Russians were from, to be Africanized. No African bees here, but in the old days the mixed breed bees were quite aggressive. IOW, they don't need to be African to be nasty.
In the US, most all of the bees are mixed breed. If they are 'yellow' we call them Italian. I can't tell the difference, appearance wise, between Caucasian and Carniolan, but both seem to need longer days to get their brood rearing into high gear. And not all Italians overproduce brood wise. It's true that the goal of many commercial beekkeepers to have big brood producers. in order to max out the rental colonies for the almonds, etc.


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## mtnmyke (Apr 27, 2017)

It was a sarcastic remark. I never actually thought they were Africanized...


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## n8app155 (Jun 3, 2020)

ncbeez said:


> Well, I couldn't get the carniolans locally like I originally wanted. However, I did drive to Georgia to a breeder that I have confidence in and got two queens that are caucasian/carniolan mix. Kinda excited about these since I have never had that combination of genes.


Bob has caucasian/carniolan mix and they are great bees.


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## Kay_B (Mar 25, 2021)

ncbeez said:


> Well, I couldn't get the carniolans locally like I originally wanted. However, I did drive to Georgia to a breeder that I have confidence in and got two queens that are caucasian/carniolan mix. Kinda excited about these since I have never had that combination of genes.


How productive are these bees? I know there are "varieties" of bees that do not bring very much honey and eat a large amount themselves.


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## ncbeez (Aug 25, 2015)

I can't comment on the caucasians yet but can tell you my experience with the other two. Italians start raising brood earlier so they sometimes collect a little of the maple nectar in my area. Carniolans fly on some days when it is too cold and wet for the Italians. The carniolans overwinter a little better here. 
The carniolans maintain a small cluster over the winter and go sparingly on their food but I give the Italians the same amount of food and they would definitely be starved out before the Spring nectar comes in without supplemental feeding. The Italians may gather a little more honey throughout the season but you have to leave them so much for the winter.


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## Struttinbuck (Mar 8, 2020)

Kay_B said:


> How productive are these bees? I know there are "varieties" of bees that do not bring very much honey and eat a large amount themselves.


I have Caucasions, they aren't pure but I'm guessing they are 80 percent trait wise. And yes they are very conservative on food, they start a little later and they beard on the hive before they decide to swarm. The only negative is their propolus is sticky. But all the other traits way outweigh sticky propolus.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Struttinbuck said:


> The only negative is their propolus is sticky. But all the other traits way outweigh sticky propolus.


Get Caucasian bees and never lose your hive tool again.


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## Boondocks (Sep 16, 2020)

It really depends on your location and when your main nectar flow may be and if you are targeting a specific nectar. 
Bob Binnie is aiming to get more sourwood honey (main flow is late June and July) so he is switching to Caucasians. 
I am sticking with Italians because our main flow is late March to middle of June here in the lower piedmont area.


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## Struttinbuck (Mar 8, 2020)

Boondocks said:


> It really depends on your location and when your main nectar flow may be and if you are targeting a specific nectar.
> Bob Binnie is aiming to get more sourwood honey (main flow is late June and July) so he is switching to Caucasians.
> I am sticking with Italians because our main flow is late March to middle of June here in the lower piedmont area.


I bet we seen the same show. And he did mention another reason which I can attest to. Their swarm instinct is extrememly low. I have 3 nucs that were just bursting at the seams last summer. You couldnt see the comb when youd pull up the frames and they would be bearding. Whenever they would beard, I would throw another box on and by that evening they would all be inside. I had one nuc with swarm cells and it did swarm . And I missed it. But still the other two never made a queen cell.
Also, I never had any comb to add. They all made comb till august and were satisfied. 
So somehow I'm finding out that I'm looking like an old pro beekeeper but its not me doing the keeping. LOL.
All credit to the Big Guy. And the bees.


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## Struttinbuck (Mar 8, 2020)

JWPalmer said:


> Get Caucasian bees and never lose your hive tool again.


Never remove you leather gloves again either. Lol. Or pull your fingers apart.
But the nitrile gloves solve alot of those issues.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

_0_


Struttinbuck said:


> Never remove you leather gloves again either. Lol. Or pull your fingers apart.


I have spent several evenings with cotton pads and a bottle of Everclear scrubbing the propolis off the fingers of my gloves. The hive tool gets cleaned just about every time I use it.


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## Struttinbuck (Mar 8, 2020)

JWPalmer said:


> _0_
> 
> I have spent several evenings with cotton pads and a bottle of Everclear scrubbing the propolis off the fingers of my gloves. The hive tool gets cleaned just about every time I use it.


Everclear huh? Ok Virginian. lol


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Still have to have a permit to buy it.


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## Struttinbuck (Mar 8, 2020)

JWPalmer said:


> Still have to have a permit to buy it.
> 
> View attachment 62734


Wow. The highest you can get on my side of the line is 151. But then they dont say anything about having equipment to make your own. I heard VA is heck on anything to do with corn squeezin


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## Struttinbuck (Mar 8, 2020)

Struttinbuck said:


> Wow. The highest you can get on my side of the line is 151. But then they dont say anything about having equipment to make your own. I heard VA is heck on anything to do with corn squeezin


Correction. They let you make enough for fuel if you have a permit. And personal use amounts.


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