# The best queens?



## allrawpaul (Jun 7, 2004)

Would you continue with the bees you presently have, even if you had tons of space and time and could easily afford to buy any queens and packages you wanted? If you are not all that happy with your bees, what stock would you like to try out at this time? I dont think I would go with Russians at this moment because of a general lack of enthusiasm about them on the forums. My bees seem particularly susceptible to PMS. I hesitate to try not-treating my own hives as I doubt any will survive to build stock from. I guess I should be looking into buying queens from someone who hasnt treated for several years and isnt losing hives or productivity due to varoa.(Is there anyone out there?) At this time I dont know where exactly to look. Thanks, Paul.


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

Paul:

I would not dicredit the russian bees. They work well in our area. 

I would really like to get some breeders in that are russian x cari. 

Italians do not work well in our area but carni works nicely. 

What kind of queens are you running?


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

*Think about this:*

Paul, let me answer your first question:
I DO buy the bees that I want.
They are bees selected for gentleness and honey production.
Throw the lid off of the hive and they don't even look up at you.
Right now, most of my hives are huge. This is important for California.
Notice that I haven't brought up mites?
I want good bees, and thats what I have year after year.
I will take care of the mites. And that is no big deal.
Varroa mites are THE EASIEST pest or disease that we as beekeepers have to deal with.
1) You can see them.
2) You can count them.
3) Almost anything and everything that you do out of the ordinary in the hive screws them up.
What kind of bees to choose?
Ones that make your work fun and profitable.
Mite resistance is a factor; its just not the first criteria for stock selection in our operation.
And we have some really GREAT bees.
You decide!


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

Harry:

Who you getting queens from?


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

allrawpaul writes:
Would you continue with the bees you presently have

tecumseh replies:
yep... bought what I wanted and knowing why helps.

if I was going looking for a different kind of bee I would likely choose pretty ones....


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

I know of a fellow here who has given up on Russian and has focused his attention towards his own selected stock. He found the russian too hard to work with, having his own stock perform better than it by far.
The problem with the Russian stock is trying to rid of the undesirable traits. Kind of like loosing a bad habbit.


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

but what were the undesirable traits? The artical in ABJ (I think it was ABJ) about Russian queens was very interesting.


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

*Pendell's Apiaries*



Chef Isaac said:


> Harry:
> 
> Who you getting queens from?


I purchaced queens from 6 different folks in 2007.
Rather than mention a bunch of names and compare, let me mention one:
For the third year in a row my favorite queens were Cordovans from Pendell Apiaries in Northern California.
They are the gentlest bees, quiet on the frames, HUGE populations.
You open the hive and often cannot see the frames for the amount of bees.
Then as you work through the hive, you are reminded of why you got into this business to begin with; it is fun!
Right now I am preparing for California and the Pendells queens have produced hives JAMMED with bees at this time.
Are they mite resistant? I hope so.
If they are not, no biggy, they are still my favorite.
I'll take care of the mites.
I have no complaints with the other suppliers.
They are on my list again this year.
I did have one problem in shipping, but that was not the queen producers fault.
There are a couple of other queens that I want to try this year.
But if they are all stingy, nasty and swarmy I'll never buy them again.
I won't report that here though.
Thats my promise to all of our queen breeder friends:
If I like the queens I'll tell everyone.
If they suck, they'll get pinched and replaced right along with you!


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

>>but what were the undesirable traits

The hardyness isnt a complaint at all. They are (apperently, getting this from hear say) real conservative to the point of extreem. They will build slower and are a bit swarmy. Comment about being more difficult to work with, queen intro and acceptances rates.
He thought he had bettered the hygenic behaviour in his stock as in the Russians he was working with so didnt see any point in continuing his Russian program. 

That is his opinion on the Russian issue. Perhaps there are more simular to it?


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## simplyhoney (Sep 14, 2004)

Harry,

How many colonies do you run that you are able to buy 15 to 20 dollar queens all the time?


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

*Save a dime that costs $1.00???*



simplyhoney said:


> Harry,
> 
> How many colonies do you run that you are able to buy 15 to 20 dollar queens all the time?


Thank you for bringing up this point that I missed:
If you analyze your Quickbooks carefuly at the end of each year you will see that fuel, feed, queens, medication,,,,ect. dominate the expenses.
When you "try" a new queen supplier, you will be ( if you have a brain in your head) ordering a small number of queens to evaluate, say 20 or 50.
You should not expect to see the same pricing as the companies that you have a history with. And especially in such small lots.
If you are considering moving away from a long time supplier, I would encourage you to talk to them first and express your issues. Dont burn bridges unless last resort. Sooner or later we all need each other.
But now to address your jab in the ***:
Yes, these small "test" lots are a few bucks higher.
But every once in a while, one of them, (like Pendell's) are worth every additional cent.
Lets just hope that they can maintain their level of quality with an increase in volume.. and quantity discounts.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

In the last 15 years we've rotated our stock and purchased from many of the queen breeders. This is done a 3 yr. rotation in an effort to keep our stock fresh and integrated. I've had best success with Buckfast, Hawaiin (glow in the dark yellow) Cordovans and Carniolans. 

We make it a point to never buy the newest bullet proof bee on the market and stick with established dependable lines.

As far as $15 - $20 a queen we order 200-300 queens each year and with shipping usually are at the $15.00 level for top shelf stock. Shipping in battery boxes in quantity really knocks the price down and I think the bees do much better in transit. Even a small operation can take advantage of quantitiy, if you are in a club get a group together and order to get the quantity discount and save on shipping charges. Many queen suppliers offer multiple varieties so everyone can get what they want, It's a good idea to have the cages marked so you'll know which is which on pick up day.


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## megank (Mar 28, 2006)

HarryVanderpool said:


> Are they mite resistant? I hope so.
> If they are not, no biggy, they are still my favorite.
> I'll take care of the mites.



So what is your method of taking care of the mites?


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## Aspera (Aug 1, 2005)

Chef Isaac said:


> Paul:
> 
> I would not dicredit the russian bees. They work well in our area.
> 
> ...


Glenn Apiaries can make this cross for you. I recommend them highly, especially for those living on the left coast.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*I would really like to get some breeders in that are russian x cari.*

Custom open bred queens for you.
I am setting up a somewhat secluded Russian X Carni yard this season. But, pleas remember that the queen may fly out 5-7 miles for mating.
I an placing Carni drone mothers around my mating area ever 1/4 to 1/2 mile. I have observed a drone congregation zone, it is a valley close to my nuc yard, and plan to use to the upmost.
I am using the Glenn Apiaries genetic strains as the researchers have done their work. Now it is my job to utilize their work to the maximum!
Ernie
Lucas Apiaries
(Queens for sale, please look for my ad in the March issue of the ABJ.)


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## Beaches' Bee-Haven Apiary (May 22, 2007)

My queens are 100% local stock made from my own hives, no grafting or any other artificial meddling. After the honey flow I'll split and let them raise their own queens. Than once the cells are under way in the new hives, I'll do a little regicide and let the original hives re-queen. The result are bees that are a little testy, but great honey producers and naturally pest resistant. I think their aggressiveness makes them all the more fun to handle!

-Nathanael


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## JBJ (Jan 27, 2005)

"no grafting or any other artificial meddling. " Beaches'

Yeah, I would strongly recommend that if one intends meddle that the artificial meddling be avoided...100% real meddling only!


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

JBJ said:


> "no grafting or any other artificial meddling. " Beaches'
> 
> Yeah, I would strongly recommend that if one intends meddle that the artificial meddling be avoided...100% real meddling only!


Good one, John!


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## Beaches' Bee-Haven Apiary (May 22, 2007)

JBJ said:


> "no grafting or any other artificial meddling. " Beaches'
> 
> Yeah, I would strongly recommend that if one intends meddle that the artificial meddling be avoided...100% real meddling only!


True... It's not so much that grafting is bad, just that if I were to try it, I'd do more harm than good!

I actually should retract my statement "artificial meddling", by splitting and killing their queen I'm not being very natural!


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