# Fall varroa treatment



## Maybee Apiaries (Jun 23, 2016)

Finding varroa wash samples come in anywhere from 0-7%. 
I'm wondering if three OA treatments, 7 days apart would make sense, I hate having to use Apivar more than once a year(treated in spring). 
Everything I read on OA sounds promising, just not sure if I'm willing to bet everything on it. Tempted to put strips in the yards with higher levels and fog the rest. Any thoughts?
PS just ordered a JB 700 blower from Heilsyer Tech.


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## Woodside (Aug 10, 2010)

you need a full face mask/respirator if using oav on a large fast paced scale. From what I understand many beeks in EU who have been using oav for a long time have developed kidney stones which have wrecked their kidneys. Oav should work... treatment right now should be three treatments spaced about 5-7 days apart. Tough to pull the trigger though... using anything new takes some getting used to. Even if everyone here has success with OAV may be other issues that pop up with the use of new equipment


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## hex0rz (Jan 14, 2014)

I have started using the lega vaporizer this year and treated in spring right after getting them as first year hives. 

I just did it again at the start of August. The bees look great and a recent sugar shake showed 0 mites after a regimen of treatment. 

Treat each hive once every 7 days for 3 weeks. That's the accepted vaporizing treatment. It works for me using my lega heat gun! I'm enjoying actual beekeeping instead of biting my nails trying to figure out what's wrong with my hives. 

Btw, im sure the jb700 has its place for someone, but i bet if you are a commercial operator, your going to hate it. Takes too much time.


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## swarm_trapper (Jun 19, 2003)

What about apigaurd that is one of the few things that I have found that works well. Not sure if you can get it in Canada?


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## BeeMoose (Oct 19, 2013)

I use Apiguard during late summer or dearth then OA vaporization during Nov/Dec time frame when hives are broodless.

Other opinions will chime in, but it's whatever works for you and your bees


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## Sadler91 (Nov 6, 2011)

Maybee Apiaries said:


> Finding varroa wash samples come in anywhere from 0-7%.
> I'm wondering if three OA treatments, 7 days apart would make sense, I hate having to use Apivar more than once a year(treated in spring).
> Everything I read on OA sounds promising, just not sure if I'm willing to bet everything on it. Tempted to put strips in the yards with higher levels and fog the rest. Any thoughts?
> PS just ordered a JB 700 blower from Heilsyer Tech.


What do you contribute to your high mite loads? Do you only treat with apivar?


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

For those of you that use Apiguard:
Do you notice more robbing tendency than normal?
I was just wondering if the strong odor has the same effect that feeding Honey Bee Snake Oil on robbing?


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## Maybee Apiaries (Jun 23, 2016)

Usually Apivar in spring, Formic in fall. We've been having a cool summer so I'm not counting on warm enough conditions for fall Formic treatment. 
Varroa levels were checked after apivar treatment in early spring, and again in late June. Both showed 0%. I've never seen levels rise so quickly, not sure exactly why.


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## RAK (May 2, 2010)

I noticed rapid mite increase when somone dumps bees close to mine.


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## Dave Burrup (Jul 22, 2008)

Harry I have used Apiguard for years and have not seen any robbing issues associated with it. Nucs and production hives.


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## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

Maybee Apiaries said:


> Finding varroa wash samples come in anywhere from 0-7%.
> I'm wondering if three OA treatments, 7 days apart would make sense, I hate having to use Apivar more than once a year(treated in spring).
> Everything I read on OA sounds promising, just not sure if I'm willing to bet everything on it. Tempted to put strips in the yards with higher levels and fog the rest. Any thoughts?
> PS just ordered a JB 700 blower from Heilsyer Tech.


OAV has been used by some in Alberta for 10-15 years. Think OAV has been used in Europe for around 20 years. It is very effective to control mites. Three treatments 7 days apart is the minimum. You may have to do more than 3 treatments.

My understanding is Medhat Nasr recommends Apivar for spring treatment and OAV for fall treatment. Need 1 strip of Apivar per five deep frames of bees so likely need less strips in spring and hence lower cost when done in spring. Rotating between Apivar and OAV will help mitigate resistance build up.

Just saw an email this week from Medhat stating that no resistance to Apivar has been found in lab tests in samples they have submitted from Alberta.

How many hives are you running? Maybe you need the vm Vaporizer? There is an active thread and you can google it.


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## Allen Martens (Jan 13, 2007)

mgolden said:


> Just saw an email this week from Medhat stating that no resistance to Apivar has been found in lab tests in samples they have submitted from Alberta.


Big difference between in lab susceptibility tests and in field results. Just sayin.


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

I would give them a 1 strip MAQS treatment and then follow it later with OAV when there is less brood. I used OAV instead of OA dribble for the first time last year. I treated once in early October and then again 2-3 weeks later when they were broodless. I wasn't that happy with the mite levels in spring and will making some adjustments this year. There is a learning curve to any new protocol and I would be cautious relying on OAV alone until you are confident in your process and its effectiveness. It just isn't a great treatment when there is brood present

Bernard Heuvel has quite a bit of experience with it and he treats 5 times, every 3 days when brood is present and then checks and follows up with more treatments if necessary.


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## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

Allen Martens said:


> Big difference between in lab susceptibility tests and in field results. Just sayin.


I would think that results from lab susceptibility tests are valid????? Are other factors in play?

Here's a copy of the email from the Alberta Provincial Apiarist. 

"From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Medhat Nasr <[email protected]>
Sent: August 30, 2016 10:55 AM
To: David Tharle
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: mites 

Apiculture program follows up with any reports of suspected Apivar resistance. We do a lab test of mites from reported apiaries. So far we have not had any positive reports of resistance. We found beekeepers under dose by applying one or two strips per hive. The proper dose is 1 strip for each 5 frames of bees. We also found some beekeepers place strips only in the top/second brood chamber, bees and brood can be in the bottom brood chamber. Placement of strips is important. It should be where bees and brood found. Third factor impacts Apivar efficacy is mites from neighbours hives, specially not treated ones. Therefore we encourage everyone to treat around the same time. 

Resistance will show up sooner or later. We need to monitor, treat and report suspected resistance. 

Regards 


Medhat"


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## Allen Martens (Jan 13, 2007)

Mites tested from one of my hives last fall should a high degree of susceptibility to apivar. The mites came from a hives running at 8% about 4 weeks into treatment. This hives was a single that was given 2 strips at the end of August and placed properly. A bunch of other hives tested in the 4 to 8% range as well. 

So yes, apivar is still showing a high degree of efficacy for mites from my hives but it is not reducing mites levels low enough to ensure good hive survival. At this stage it is no longer a useful tool for my hives.

I know of other beekeepers for whom apivar no longer appears to be working either.


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Allen:

Are you saying you took some varroa with bees to a lab, and the lab told you the varroa were susceptible to Apivar? The lab guys might say something like the Apivar killed 95% of the varroa and therefore those mites are still susceptible. You are good to go Allen.

Now the mites that got tested came from a single, single brood chamber hive? And then you are also saying that other colonies tested between 4 and 8% after 4 weeks of treating? Apivar label says you can treat for up to 56 days, or 8 weeks. What were the levels after week 6 or 8 when the strips were pulled? At this point we only have a single data entry so we do not know if the trend for that varroa population was going up or down. I know I certainly would be nervous if after 4 weeks my colonies still had 8% varroa in them.

I am a little bit confused when you say "high degree of efficacy for mites" and "no longer a useful tool for my hives" in the same paragraph. Apivar is supposed to kill varroa and if it does, it is then effective. If Apivar does not kill varroa or in sufficient numbers, then it certainly would fall in the no longer useful tool category.

If I'm a lawyer I would perhaps argue, bad batch of Apivar. After all the lab says that Apivar works fine.

I know in my case we had a similar situation but I am not certain of a few factors. I know some strips were placed in the wrong location so that rendered them ineffective. We only used 2 insead of 3 or 4. In the past 2 always did it. I know of another beekeeper that had high levels after a treatment. He also said that the fall was warm last year and bees kept brooding up so another 2 strips were placed in the singles and that did the trick.

Jean-Marc


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## Allen Martens (Jan 13, 2007)

Yes the lab actually came and did the sampling and the testing. And yes the efficacy test in the lab came from one hive that was a single brood chamber. I tested this hive several times after apivar treatment began and varroa numbers went up not down. I retested several hives a couple of weeks after I began treatment and for dome the varroa numbers came down nicely but not for this hive. Upon further testing i came across more hives with elevated varroa number but I have no idea worh varroa levels were at in these hives prior to testing. The Apivar strips were in the hives for 8 weeks however during the last 4 weeks I applied 2 rounds of formic meat pads and one round of OAD. After that the varroa numbers were about halved in the hives I h as d been testing.

The reason I said that apivar was no longer a useful tool for me even though the lab test should efficacy is based upon the last couple of years of treatments. In the fall of 2014 I treated with Apivar. In the spring of 2015 I tested for varroa in the beginning of May and had levels as high as 10%. This had happened to me about 5 years ago with a fall apivar treatment being ineffective. At that time I did 5 rounds of formic meat oads in spring and the next fall Apivar worked well. So I thought this might just be some anomaly with Apivar again and put some Apivar strips with sticky board. Even after one day there was an excellent drop of varroa. The big hives got 2 strips and the splits one. As hives got split each half got one strip. I only leftfthe strips in for about 3 weeks as I needed to get supers on. In retrospect I MAQS as my hives were huge and swarming and I could have treated and super. So I wasn't surprised that I was finding some hives at 3% in the fall of 2015 at the end of August. However I was not happy the numbers went up in some hives as the treatment progressed.

This spring I did 3 rounds of OAV and one round of formic meat pads. Every hive I tested was under 1% and when I tested mid August the highest levels were 1.5%. I'm hoping to use a OAV or a combo of OAV and formuc meat pads in the future.


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## RAK (May 2, 2010)

I feel bad for you Canadians. Life would be easier if yall had some magic oil.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Your Apivar experience is worrisome. 
I've been treating with Apivar exclusively each spring, no fall treatments. This year my counts are half a percent. 
I'm going to either buy a OA gun or borrow a neighbours to get experience with them, comes the day.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

RAK said:


> I feel bad for you Canadians. Life would be easier if yall had some magic oil.


Smart ass


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## RAK (May 2, 2010)

Ian said:


> Smart ass


Just sayin. :thumbsup:


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

"Smart ass"



RAK said:


> Just sayin. :thumbsup:


O.K.
For the rest of this thread, comments must be 2 words or less.
opcorn:


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

"Life would be easier if yall had some magic oil."

Sure would.

Jean-Marc


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## Planner (Apr 3, 2016)

You raise an excellent issue about health. These are very powerful chemicals and at some point one has to ask if the risk to our health is worth treating bees that may not make it even with treatment.


Woodside said:


> you need a full face mask/respirator if using oav on a large fast paced scale. From what I understand many beeks in EU who have been using oav for a long time have developed kidney stones which have wrecked their kidneys. Oav should work... treatment right now should be three treatments spaced about 5-7 days apart. Tough to pull the trigger though... using anything new takes some getting used to. Even if everyone here has success with OAV may be other issues that pop up with the use of new equipment


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## Flyer Jim (Apr 22, 2004)

HarryVanderpool said:


> "Smart ass"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 No.


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## BjornH (Nov 8, 2013)

When not using strips the 6-8 weeks cycle, is a good way selecting for increased resistant mites.. As autum treatment, strips first and when totally broodless using OA-drip/vaporizing reduce risk for development of resistance. But, locality ( i have Winter, the real stuff) hivenumbers, economy,..well, the usual ... does interfer with that work of course


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## rbees (Jun 25, 2012)

HarryVanderpool said:


> For the rest of this thread, comments must be 2 words or less.
> opcorn:


Bite me


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

rbees said:


> Bite me


What the????


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## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

Fall shakeouts?????


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