# splits for swarm prevention



## honeybeealex (Mar 15, 2010)

If i split using just two frames of brood would that help prevent swarming?

and if so would two frames be enough to get a new hive built up strong enough?

thanks


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## Yuleluder (Mar 2, 2005)

Timing of your splits will be critical when managing their swarming instinct. Getting the feel for the correct time will be something you will acquire over time. 

I pull enough frames for a five frame nuc, and many times a couple of weeks later I'm pulling another five frames for another nuc. I'm also able to get a deep or two of surplus honey out of some hives I do this to.


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## fish_stix (May 17, 2009)

If you're splitting a hive that has swarm cells you must take the old queen along with some brood and bees. This simulates the swarm leaving the hive and should mitigate the swarm impulse. If you don't remove the old queen they will swarm about 99.9% of the time after building cells.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

Find the fatbeeman podcasts. The second covers that very subject understandably and completely. You won't go far wrong listening to his metholds.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

That weak of a split is unlikely to feed a queen well. If it has a capped queen cell it will probably do ok. If the hive is on the verge of swarming (capped or almost ready to cap queen cells) that is probably not enough to head things off. A hive in that state, I would split so every frame with a queen cell went in one of the splits along with a frame of honey minimum. and split it "to the four winds". If it's just a strong crowded hive with no queen cells that I think is going to swarm soon, I split by the box, but my boxes are half the size of a deep. But I make two strong splits because they need to raise a queen and feed her well, and a weak split will seldom do that.


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## Seymore (May 1, 2009)

Mike, what is "to split it to the four winds"?


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

You know, after you ate too much chilli!


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

It means if I have ten frames of brood that have queen cells on them, I make ten splits. I end up with a bunch of nucs, some great queens, and none of them make up a strong hive. It means split a lot.

But it heads off the swarms that would have happened. If I can catch it before that maybe I can just keep the brood nest open, but if I think it's already to the point they will probably swarm, I'll just split in half.


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

Here in Maine, I won't get much of a honey crop if I split a hive. I've learned that lesson. There are better methods of swarm control; reversing, checkerboarding, etc. Splitting might be your last resort if you are interested in a good honey crop that year.

Wayne


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## hipbee (Sep 11, 2009)

last year my best honey producer was a hive that I made a swarm control split from( in early june)... they built a few queen cells and when they capped them i took the original queen and 5 frames and made a nuc. they raised a new queen and then filled a super full of honey......pretty good for a 2 lb package started in april.


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## Seymore (May 1, 2009)

*Giggles* oldtimer.  

So, can you just put 5 frames in a 8 frame medium (I do all mediums) and call that a nuc? Adding frames as needed? Must we start with a 5-frame nuc?

Mike, I'm just not catching how "splitting to the winds" and making even 4 or 5 splits (nucs?) is not making for the likelihood of a weak hive. Is it because you say take a whole frame of brood? 



> If it's just a strong crowded hive with no queen cells that I think is going to swarm soon, I split by the box,


.....

And, what do you mean by "split by the box?" You seem to be differentiating that from the split honeybeealex was speaking of. Can you tell me what that difference is?

Thanks!


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Split by the box works with eight frame mediums in a build up with a hive that has at least four boxes full of bees, brood and stores because there is always brood in at least two and likely three boxes and stores in the top two. So I can lay down two bottoms and "deal" the boxes. So each half gets every other box. Then I put on some empty boxes and com back in a month and see how they are doing.

I only split if I can't seem to head off the swarming by keeping the brood nest open, or more likely because I didn't get to the yard in time to realize I needed to intervene. If the hive is full of swarm cells, my goal goes from honey production to good queens and no swarms. So I end up with a lot of weak "mating" nucs basically but well fed queen cells.


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## Seymore (May 1, 2009)

Thanks, Mike. Got it on the box split.... I think! 

Thanks for the question honeybeealex!  Helping to clear some things up. Lord knows I need it!


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## Peacocks bee farm (Feb 10, 2011)

I find that checker boarding works best for me.I have to keep my bees crowded as possible to help with shb, plus you will get more honey that way. 


a lot of people are smart but most people don't have time to be wise.


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## dug_6238 (May 9, 2007)

Ditto on checkerboarding for me.


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