# is anybody trying the weaver queens?



## Gregg (Dec 22, 2003)

Just installed about 100 of them, so don't know yet, but will keep you posted.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Gregg......... What breed did you go with??


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

We've used Weaver Queens (Buckfast) on and off for years. We installed 100 in nucs this April and they are doing very well. They are clearly flying in cooler temps in larger numbers than the italians. We ordered 200 buckfast last year. They run a closed brood nest, good honey producers and winter well. The Italians produce considerably more harvestable pollen. We have seen better mite resistance than the Italians but we still treat them the same as our Italians. We just have a lower mite count throughout the season. I have a friend who ordered the all Ameircans last year because he is too cheap to pony up the couple of dollars for buckfast. He was not very happy with them production wise. They looked like a buckfast cross to me. I think Buckfast is a very good bee. Keep in mind that area of Texas is Africanized and at this point only by running 3 or 4 times the drone hives has interbreeding been prevented. I don't think that will last forever.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

I installed five B. Weaver queens last month and something was wrong with the candy. Even with a nail holes they didn't eat thru when I checked five days later, so I did a manual release, uncorked the other end.


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

All my current stock (so a realiteve answer is not possible since I have nothing with which to compare) has been acquired from BWeaver who is about 20 miles south of tecumseh. In some form or fashion, I have been dealing with the Weaver for quite some time. IMHO the B. Weaver family are quality folks with a quality product. I utilize All American because they build up early and the queens are easier for tecumseh to locate. As Joel suggest the Buckfast is probably a better breed for northern beekeeper since they build up slower and are very frugal with winter stores. If buford (montani semper libre-bro) is asking does the mite problem go away by utilizing BWeaver stock, the answer is no.


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## mark williams (Jan 19, 2003)

I got some a few years back from R weaver,
Heard an ol' saying.>Don't mess with anything that is meaner than you are<,So that was the 1st & last for me.
Mark


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

mark williams ses:
I got some a few years back from R weaver

tecumseh replies:
I believe??? RWeaver is a cousin of Benford. Like I have said previously on this forum, be careful as to who EXACT LY you are dealing. Some folks will tell you the up and downs of things more than others and some folks will ride a brand until that horse is dead. Sounds like Mark acquired some mix of russian stock which is known to be mean and therefore unuseable by tecumseh, since I still have to live with my neighbors.


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## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

It is important to recall that the ads (and very
fancy brochures with lush photography) for B. Weaver
speak only about "our queens" and "our hives".

They are careful to make no specific claims about
the queens you will be shipped (the open-mated 
progeny of their queens), which they say that they
have not had to treat for mites.

While "salesmanship" and "marketing" are not
in themselves anything unusual, Danny Weaver's
reaction to questioning of and comments about 
his claims has been rabid. In short, he
deliberately attempted to get the "list owner" of 
Bee-L disciplined or fired for daring to "print" a
message questioning his claims. (Bee-L is hosted
at U. Albany, the employer of the list owner, a
massive tactical error that the list owner has yet
to correct.)

I find the "spin" much less interesting than the
anger in response to perfectly reasonable observations
about "the marketing" versus "the actual product".

Here's the "questioning":
http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0410D&L=bee-l&P=R1757&D=0

Here's Danny's "response":
http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0410E&L=bee-l&P=R742


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## Gregg (Dec 22, 2003)

Their Italians.... All Stars they call them.


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## COUNT ZERO (Apr 8, 2005)

I bought a package of their All-Stars this year. Mind you, it was only one package so It can't be considered a test group by any stretch. They arrived very healthy(by mail). However, upon my last inspection, the queen was laying very spotty patterns. They are on foundationless frames and we've had a very cold spring for wax making so she could be stressed. I am considering requeening.

Brian


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## buford (Feb 22, 2005)

thanks everybody. i was just curious (still am, a bit).


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## Gregg (Dec 22, 2003)

First report on Weaver's queens, not real happy with how they were released. The candy must have been awful hard, after 5 days very few were out of the cage.


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

Jim Fisher sezs:
"While "salesmanship" and "marketing" are not in themselves anything unusual, Danny Weaver's reaction to questioning of and comments about his claims has been rabid. In short, he deliberately attempted to get the "list owner" of Bee-L disciplined or fired for daring to "print" a message questioning his claims. (Bee-L is hosted at U. Albany, the employer of the list owner, a massive tactical error that the list owner has yet to correct.) I find the "spin" much less interesting than the anger in response to perfectly reasonable observations about "the marketing" versus "the actual product"."

tecumseh responds:
Using a word like 'rabid' hardly seems to give you the neutral observers voice Jim? And the retribution accusation seems a bit over the top don't you think? It does seem like Mr Morris has decided that an apology was due or do I need my eyeglass prescription rechecked?

Greg sezs:
Their Italians.... All Stars they call them

tecumseh replies:
All American I believe.


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

Greg sezs:
Their Italians.... All Stars they call them

tecumseh corrects himself:
me bad.... after digging thru my stack and finding bweavers fancy marketing borchure you are absolutely correct Greg their itialians are called All Stars. As far as the brochure is concerned.... I liked the olde pictures.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

Tecumseh, You are are very right about Binford. I met him at the 1997 ABF convention and he is an absolute Gentleman. I have been very happy with his Buckfast queens. I know one of the Sons gave up law to do bees)who wouldn't) also but I can not remember the name. I believer Binford has the All Americans, or am I mistaken too! Any insight on the aficanization of Texas?


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## Bob Harrison (Mar 15, 2005)

I love the way posters completely ignore the original question posed.

ARE THE Weaver queens varroa tolerant as advertised?

I guess it does not really matter if they are or arn't as most beekeepers are not willing to stop treating for varroa to find out.


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

Joel sezs:
Tecumseh, You are are very right about Binford. I met him at the 1997 ABF convention and he is an absolute Gentleman. I have been very happy with his Buckfast queens. I know one of the Sons gave up law to do bees)who wouldn't) also but I can not remember the name. I believer Binford has the All Americans, or am I mistaken too! Any insight on the aficanization of Texas?

tecumseh replies: 
Yes a gentleman by the very definition of the word. I think his only child's name is Danny (the accused in the above mentioned e-mail I assume). I do suspect that Danny does not come across as being nearly as humble as Binford. One of the problems with the Weaver name is that there are so many Weavers (probably all counsins) in and about Navasota doing bees, that one is quite often confused with another.

The african bee seems to be much more a problem in the dry brush country of south and west Texas than they are here in the humid Gulf costal segment of the state. I normally catch a number of swarms here in the early spring more as a social service than for any pecuniary benefit (which I think maybe illegal in Texas) and I always take a sample to the state bee lab (just up the road a few miles) just to make sure I am not dragging some african stock back into my own bee yard. As of this date probably less than 10% has ever shown any degree of african/european hybridization and I have never really encountered a true africanized swarm. We do get reports of verified african sighting locally about once or twice during the spring, but we probably see twice that number of news reports where the culprit eventually turns out to be you run of the mill european bee. 

And a question back to Joel:
I see you do a NYC farmers market gig. Have you ever taken product down to Union Station?


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

RobHarrison sezs:
I love the way posters completely ignore the original question posed.
ARE THE Weaver queens varroa tolerant as advertised?
I guess it does not really matter if they are or arn't as most beekeepers are not willing to stop treating for varroa to find out.

tecumseh replies:
First off I would never assume that 'all' of the reported problems of the honeybee attributed to varroa are directly created by the mite itself. The varroa problem IMHO is a clothes line on which you can hang a bunchs of dirty laundry (bad habits, bad management, bad nutrition, and just plain pushing a bioliogical organism way beyound it's natural capacity). 

As to your question: I do believe that the Russian strain of bees has been shown to be mite resistant/tolerance. It is my understanding that it is this bloodline that is slowly being incorporated into the BWeaver queen rearing operation via an open mating system. I really do not think that this is a matter of us beekeepers stopping long enough to figure this question out; it is simple that the number of variable are so numerous that the calculation would take much longer than you and I have to do the math. I do understand the gist of your concern.


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## Gregg (Dec 22, 2003)

My plan (at least right now) is to NOT treat the Weaver hives for mites. I just put them in though, so I don't know yet. I will be doing some monitoring for mites at the end of the Summer to see if a treatment is necessary. Will post what I have seen then.


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## Bob Harrison (Mar 15, 2005)

Gregg has the right idea! 

Why would you drop your favorite bee and install a Russian/Weaver varroa tolerant and blanket treat? 

I guess what the list has been doing.

Of the 2729 members of beesource has not one member which bought the Weaver varroa tolerant line 3-5 years ago left untreated or at least left untreated until treatment level was at ecomomic threshold?

We tested fifty two years ago.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

Tecumseh, We are at Greenpoint ( my wife), and Prospect Park, (me, my youngest son and our dog) and Atlas park starting in July, Saturdays only due to the 500+ mile weekly round trip. Union is a huge Market(I think the biggest out of 28). I was asked to do either a Wednesday or Friday Market just can't at this time.


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## scottr (Apr 21, 2004)

I have had AllStars from B Weaver for 3 years. I have treated for mites once in those 3 years. For me they work and work well. For someone else, who knows.

Scott


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## Scott Griffith (Jun 8, 2005)

Don't know about second-hand knowledge. But the beekeeper that helped me get started swares by the Buckfast. Says he has used them for years without treating for T. Mites. I don't know what he does about V. Mites. I assume he treats for those. He is going to help me get through my mite treatments in August. He does treat hives caught from swarms. He requeens all other races with Buckfast every fall. He's made a believer out of me. I am going to requeen two of my hives to buckfast this fall.


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## TwT (Aug 5, 2004)

I would love to try the Buckfast Bee's, but I want the one's from canada, done heard to much bad about the weavers alot of time's going hot, just dont want to take a chance when my hives are just behind the house (200 feet) and I have youngens running around.


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## Grant (Jun 12, 2004)

Forget the ones from Canada. You can't get them, or they can't ship them, or the US gov't won't let them, or the weather interrupted the mating. I've tried and there is always an excuse or a reason why the can't be shipped. 

I'm at present waiting for a refund for bees I paid for, but the US customs agents wouldn't let across the border even all paper work was filed, etc.

I've tried Weavers and found them to be fair and decent queen producers, and most of their bees were very good, and a few were "hot" (a very relative, subjective term). And a few didn't quite live up to what I expected.

I've ordered from other producers, and yes, a few of their queen produced bees that were also a little "hot." I don't think anyone has the monopoly on defensive bees. And despite their best attempts at quality control, some bees just don't live up to what was expected, for a variety of reasons, some of which are circumstances beyond the producer's control.

However, more and more, I'm learning how to raise my own queens to replace my annual expense and mild disappointment and impatient frustration of ordering queens. I've got some good bees with what appears to be a disposition complimentary to my level of management. With a keen attention to detail, raising one's own queens is not that difficult, and no, I don't graft. The "Jenter" style units work quite well.

Grant


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## TwT (Aug 5, 2004)

are these same US-CANADA laws or restriction applied to others like buckfast abbey, they are getting austrailian bees here now , does buckfast abbey still supply bee's and if so why doesn't any one see what you would have to do to get a supply of 100 or 1000 queens and start raising them. weavers got them years ago, what stops someone else now? might be tempting to take a vacation over there and have a battery box for luggage


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## Gregg (Dec 22, 2003)

Update (and to get this post to the top of the list, as I'm very curious to see what anybody else thinks who has gotten queens from B Weaver) :

Nucs that I put these queens into seem to be building up pretty well. Acceptance was about the same as for other queens. I have noticed they seem slightly more aggressive than my Italian or Carniolan queens. I have one yard of 48 hives with all Weaver queens, and they seem a little testier than other yards, but overall not bad.

No info. on mite counts yet, but will hopefully have some in the Fall.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

He may correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Rob Harrison has been getting some real Buckfasts but it's a convoluted route to Australia, with the original queen in quarentine and THAT queen is actuall destroyed, but her offspring get brought in.

I don't believe ANY bees from England are allowed in the US at present.


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