# Does wifi affect bees?



## pedrocr (Jun 5, 2012)

Does anyone know of any studies about wifi and bees? I've been looking at options to put a camera in an observation hive and one of the simplest options would just be to use an old Android phone. Since that requires using wifi pretty close to the hive (~1meter/3feet) I was wondering if it's a problem.


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## Jetjockey (May 18, 2011)

I have not run across any studies that show bees are affected by low levels of electromagnetic radiation. The majority of the studies I have read focused on cell phones witch emit far greater amounts of radio radiation than WiFi and those studies showed no verifiable ill affects to the bees. Your WiFi camera should be just fine well I should say your bees will be just fine as they might nibble or propolize your phone pretty badly.


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## Deamiter (Jul 21, 2009)

Well said Jetjockey.

when a cell phone is transmitting continuously on high power, it can subtly warm biological tissue -- but that's the worst that's been shown to date and that's much higher power than WiFi.

Post your pictures or videos when you've got them!


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## pedrocr (Jun 5, 2012)

Jetjockey said:


> I have not run across any studies that show bees are affected by low levels of electromagnetic radiation. The majority of the studies I have read focused on cell phones witch emit far greater amounts of radio radiation than WiFi and those studies showed no verifiable ill affects to the bees. Your WiFi camera should be just fine well I should say your bees will be just fine as they might nibble or propolize your phone pretty badly.


Thanks for that. They won't be able to propolize the phone though as it will be outside the hive  It's an observation hive I'm planning so I'll be shooting through the glass with only red light that hopefully the bees won't be able to see and thus won't propolize the glass. Here's the thread where I discuss my plans (that nobody replied to I'm afraid):

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?275199-Building-my-own-observation-hive

And here's a link to the 3D sketch of what I'll be building (Google Sketchup is awesome):

http://i.imgur.com/L5H2W.png

Thanks again


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## pedrocr (Jun 5, 2012)

Deamiter said:


> Well said Jetjockey.
> 
> when a cell phone is transmitting continuously on high power, it can subtly warm biological tissue -- but that's the worst that's been shown to date and that's much higher power than WiFi.


That's all I knew about in humans too. I was wondering if there was any specific info on bees.



Deamiter said:


> Post your pictures or videos when you've got them!


The idea is for this to be an experimental hive full with logging of temperature/humidity/weight. So once I have that setup it should be online with all that and the images.


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## dusanmal (Sep 17, 2012)

Deamiter said:


> when a cell phone is transmitting continuously on high power, it can subtly warm biological tissue -- but that's the worst that's been shown to date and that's much higher power than WiFi.
> !


Ok, this goes to my profession (in beekeeping I am amateur). Cell phone radiation at the typical power and frequency at inches of range can do more than just warm the tissue. It can catalyze certain chemical reactions. There are quite a number of published studies (in boring scientific journals, nothing at popular level) in past couple of years focusing on human brain chemistry and such radiation. Depending on study, there are 12 to 16 documented chemical chain reactions that start with said radiation and end in equivalent of what ionizing radiation can do directly. So, serious damage is possible in that particular yet important case (so far no indications of any danger of keeping the phone in the pocket and using Bluetooth earpiece - this is specific to the brain chemistry).
Back to the bees and WiFi... As it is true that WiFi is by design limited to even less power I'd not be afraid of physical (chemical) damage to the bees even with the source on the hive.


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## Deamiter (Jul 21, 2009)

My mildly curious (i.e. unprofessional) sense is that while it's fascinating that scientists have documented chemical reactions triggered by cell phone radiation, it's not something to be overly concerned about because we don't see statistically significant increases in any brain diseases in populations (like construction foremen and salesmen) who spend a lot more time on the phone. It's still probably a really great idea to keep the phone away from the head when transmitting at high power just on general principle! I'd be interested in some links to boring journals if you have some on hand.

pedrocr, I'd like to talk more about the camera, but my kids are demanding attention. I'll be back later.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Do they make computers that small?


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## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

The bees and cell phone study often cited, actually demonstrates bees reaction to the vibration or buzzing, but untrained scientists are not as smart as the bees. The correct procedure was run to invalidate (could be read humiliate) the original study.


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## pedrocr (Jun 5, 2012)

sqkcrk said:


> Do they make computers that small?


I don't follow, what do you mean?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

The pcs would have to be pretty small, otherwise bees couldn't use them. Having wifi keeps me from being as productive as I otherwise would be w/out it. I bet the same would be true w/ bees.

I really, seriously, think you have nothing to worry about. Go ahead and do what you planned to.


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## pedrocr (Jun 5, 2012)

sqkcrk said:


> The pcs would have to be pretty small, otherwise bees couldn't use them. Having wifi keeps me from being as productive as I otherwise would be w/out it. I bet the same would be true w/ bees.
> 
> I really, seriously, think you have nothing to worry about. Go ahead and do what you planned to.


 Sadly for them I won't be providing internet access. I want them working, not browsing beesource!


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## BigGun (Oct 27, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> Do they make computers that small?


Your cell phone is a computer. Probably not the type you want though.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Why put any camera inside an observation hive? The walls are made of glass.


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## pedrocr (Jun 5, 2012)

sqkcrk said:


> Why put any camera inside an observation hive? The walls are made of glass.


The camera is going to be outside the hive looking through the glass. I'm not around during the week, so I'd like to be able to look at it remotely.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Then wouldn't your purposes be better served to have two cameras so you can see what's happening on both sides? And, is this going to be skyped? Is that why you asked about wifi?


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## pedrocr (Jun 5, 2012)

sqkcrk said:


> Then wouldn't your purposes be better served to have two cameras so you can see what's happening on both sides? And, is this going to be skyped? Is that why you asked about wifi?


The idea is indeed to have a camera on each side. I asked about wifi because I was considering using two old Android phones as cameras and to get images out of those wifi is the easier option. The idea is to have a computer server continuously grab photos from the two phones and then put them online for all to see together with humidity/temp/weight. Then everyone can see my crappy beekeeping skills...


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Yeah, that could be too much information.  

Sounds like it could be an interesting exercise. Best of luck.


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## Frankh (Aug 28, 2011)

"Sadly for them I won't be providing internet access. I want them working, not browsing beesource! "

Being that the colony is mostly female, I would think they'd be more interested in the Bee Shopping Network...."Girls,the new pollen patties have arrived!!!"


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## Deamiter (Jul 21, 2009)

Man, if giving internet access to bee hives gets popular, Pinterest is going to EXPLODE!

More seriously, you should note that while red light will bother the bees less, you probably want to be careful about how much red light you use. Especially if you keep it on continuously, you may be adding a significant heat source if you use enough light to get good images out of cell phone cameras.

Since you're already using computer control, the easiest solution may be to simply turn the light on only while the camera is taking a picture. Otherwise, just do some experiments with thermometers to see how much heat you're adding before you install the bees.


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