# KTBH top bar size?



## mfisch (Aug 28, 2007)

I'm a newbie beekeeper and have elected to start with the KTBH. I did take introductory classes from a Langstroth hobbiest of 40 years but was put off by the invasive nature required to care for bees in that environment.

I don't have photos available, but I've already assembled most of a hive (minus legs and bars). The bottom is roughly 1' wide, making the top bars almost 2' long. I planned to make space for 30 bars at 1 3/8" because of suggestions on bar width I read.

Reading additional information reguarding natural cell size and regressed bees it seems maybe this TB width should be adjusted. 

Michael Bush suggests the following at http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnaturalcell.htm

Make the bars 32 mm (1 ¼") for the brood area
Make the bars 38 mm (1 ½") for the honey area 

Can anyone comment on this suggestion for "feral" or "regressed" bees? 

Regression seems inevitable in a TBH without drawn comb. Is 1 3/8" just a happy medium that works well?

Should I plan to cut bars of varying widths?

Thanks in advance,
Matt


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Make the bars 32 mm (1 ¼") for the brood area
>Make the bars 38 mm (1 ½") for the honey area
>Can anyone comment on this suggestion for "feral" or "regressed" bees?

Either way if you swap out the comb they will regress. I have had better luck getting smaller cells by spacing the combs what the bees do on their own. When I spaced all of mine 1 1/2" the bees spaced them 1 1/4" anyway for brood and 1 1/2" for honey.

>Regression seems inevitable in a TBH without drawn comb.

Actually, if you don't measure comb and you don't swap out the comb, it is NOT inevitable. They may not build small cell comb and they may use that large cell brood nest for decades.

> Is 1 3/8" just a happy medium that works well?

You won't get quite as much smaller cells, but it works.

>Should I plan to cut bars of varying widths?

That's what I do. But I did it because whether I did nor not, the bees built COMBS of varying widths...


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## mfisch (Aug 28, 2007)

So whats the strategy behind how many bars I would put in of each size?

And placement?


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## markonsite (Dec 14, 2006)

*Bar Length*

Mfisch, make your brood bars 1 1/4" and honey bars 1 1/2". I tried using 1 3/8" in my TBH and when they started storing honey the comb was too wide and they attached to the next bar. I have since gone to all 1 1/4" & 1 1/2" and it's worked great.

(The bottom is roughly 1' wide, making the top bars almost 2' long.)

A 2' long bar may be a little long. Mine are 19" and when the comb is fully built and full of honey they are extremely heavy, and I need to be careful so they don't break. Hope this helps, good luck!

Mark


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## mfisch (Aug 28, 2007)

makes sense .... though still confused


How many brood bars are they likely to need total? 10? more? How do I know what kind of bar they need next before they do? I assume they will build honey/pollen on the first bar (maybe some brood?), brood bars 2-?, then the rest of the honey stores. Do I just have to keep an eye and see when the brood bar fills up and hope I guess the right time to stick another brood bar in?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I make mine half and half with a few extras of each. In other words, in a 48 3/4" long top bar hive I made about 20 of each. I juggle them around as I see what the bees are building. When they are expanding the brood nest I keep it at 1 1/4" next to where they are building. When they start building honey comb that is thicker, I move those off and put the 1 1/2" next to where they are now storing comb and feed the 1 1/4" ones into the brood nest one empty bar at a time, to get them to expand the brood nest more. When that comb is drawn I put another empty 1 1/4" bar in the brood nest again.


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## mfisch (Aug 28, 2007)

Thanks Michael!


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