# I still am not sure how to split a hive.



## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

With your experience level, I would suggest that you take a bottom board and put it right beside your hive. Take that top box off and set it on the new bottom board right beside your other hive. Now pull some frames out of the bottom box and make sure you have eggs and lots of bees in the bottom box too. If you do have bees and eggs in both of the boxes, put the lids on and walk away! In five days come back and carefull pull frames until you find the presence of eggs or of queen cells. The cells will be on the face of the frame and look like a peanut if capped. If you have a box with a queen cell and a box with eggs meaning a queen, you now have two hives. If the one with eggs is still full of bees, put another box on it. If the one with the queen cells is full of bees, put a box on it too. The hive with no queen will actually store more honey than the hive raising brood.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Here is a simple mindless method. Put down two bottoms (if you don't have them then set your current hive on something else to free up that bottom). Put an empty box on each bottom board. Take each frame from the bottom box of your existing hive and deal them like cards... one for you and one for you. Every other frame going in the other box. Put them in the center of the box and fill the outsides with whatever you are using (frames with foundation or comb guides). Put another empty box on each (feel free to use the one you just emptied) and do it again with the top box. You have now divvied up the resources as evenly as possible without making any actual decisions other than giving each hive every other frame. Finish those boxes out with frames and put the lids on. The one with a queen will continue as is. The one without will raise a queen. Both will have all stages of brood, pollen and stores.


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## Bonnie Botkins (Sep 13, 2011)

I did a split exactly this way 17 days ago today, I was told NOT to inspect on days 10-12 because of sensitive developmental stage of the new queen cells. My confusion is this. What is the more likely preferrence of the bees? to start a queen from a 1 day old egg or the other extreme a newly hatched larvae. I have not inspected or looked for queen cells because of trying to avoid this sensitive time and now that I'm sure I'm past this time the weather has turned cold and windy. So here's my question what day in the raising of the queen are they probably in.

Thanks Bonnie


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## ralittlefield (Apr 25, 2011)

Bonnie Botkins said:


> What is the more likely preferrence of the bees? to start a queen from a 1 day old egg or the other extreme a newly hatched larvae. So here's my question what day in the raising of the queen are they probably in.


Hard to say exactly what day the queen raising process is in, but I believe they would have started with a larvae (not an egg) 4 days or less old.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>What is the more likely preferrence of the bees? to start a queen from a 1 day old egg or the other extreme a newly hatched larvae.

Newly hatched larvae.

> I have not inspected or looked for queen cells because of trying to avoid this sensitive time and now that I'm sure I'm past this time the weather has turned cold and windy. So here's my question what day in the raising of the queen are they probably in.

They started at day 4. Add the number of days to 4. She should emerge on day 16 and be mated by day 30, or 26 days after the split. Give or take 5 days or so...


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

You want to get a honey crop too though right? Stack off all boxes off to the side. Put an empty box on the bottom board. Put 2 frames or so of capped brood, a good frame of store, and fill it with frames of foundation. Shake all of the bees off of every frame into that box.

- if you just happen to see the queen stop and make up a nuc with her (2 frames of brood, one of food, foundation, good shake of bees) and you're done.

Assuming you don't find the queen, run all of the bees into that one box, and then top it with a queen excluder, restack the rest of the hive on top of that. Next day, just move that bottom box (which now has the queen) to a new spot. If you want to you can go through the big queenless hive in a few days and make up some more nucs with the frames that have queen cells - of course leave at least one.

With a little luck this will keep the hive from swarming, make increase nucs, and still make a honey crop. Of course you never can tell with bees. It will be quite a learning experience for a new bee keeper though.


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## beedeetee (Nov 27, 2004)

Your dilemma is one that beekeepers face each year. I sell honey. I don't sell honey from hives that swarm and I don't sell honey from hives that are weak. So the goal is to weaken the old hive enough to hold off the swarming yet be strong enough to give a good crop of honey.

This takes experience, but basically I make nucs from hives that I think are too strong. I raise or buy queens for them, but in a pinch one hive can raise their own queen, probably the strong one. I usually take about 3 frames of capped brood and one of honey/pollen to make the nuc. Then shake a couple of frames of bees into the nuc. I'll put my new queen in the nuc. If I don't have a queen, I'll move the old queen to the nuc (now it's just like they swarmed but I didn't have to catch it) and let the old hive raise the queen. If I don't have a new queen, I usually take less brood and bees for the nuc.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

beedeetee said:


> Your dilemma is one that beekeepers face each year. I sell honey. I don't sell honey from hives that swarm and I don't sell honey from hives that are weak.


Well put. That could just about be "The Bee Keepers Dilemma" axiom.


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## Sassin (Jul 20, 2011)

Michael- Is there a better time of day to do this? I've never split, but would like to use this simple method. I have one hive in particular that has lovely genetics, 2 deeps and a super just added a week ago that is now completely drawn but not full. I figure I can remove the super in 2 weeks and split with plenty of time left this summer for the bees to build up (plus I'm spoiled in Hawaii and don't have to winter). What I'm wondering about is the foragers, they would return to the original box, so should I try to corral most bees into the newer box in hopes that they haven't taken an orientation flight yet? Or does it even matter? Thanks.


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## tbb39 (Jun 9, 2007)

I just did the same thing mr bush just sugested last week deal them like cards. easy to do. checked and got queen cells today.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Michael- Is there a better time of day to do this?

Anytime will do, but evening has the advantage of them getting settled in and they may drift less. I don't worry about it.


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## heus (Apr 16, 2012)

OK I went into my hive yesterday. Found an uncapped queen cell with larvae hanging from bottomof middle frame in top box. Found the queen in bottom box. Waiting on new hive should be here soon. If queen is still in bottom box when I do the split can I just put top deep on new bottom board and a new deep with foundation on top of each and call it a day?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>can I just put top deep on new bottom board and a new deep with foundation on top of each and call it a day? 

If things are fairly evenly distributed, yes. That is the point. Both need brood in all stages, honey, pollen and bees of all ages...


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## heus (Apr 16, 2012)

Thank you Michael I am looking forward to doing this. Should I feed the new split even if they are bringing in pollen?


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## PatBeek (Jan 13, 2012)

Not sure if anyone is wondering about top bar splits, but here is a video of Sam Comfort of Anarchy Apiaries running around doing all sorts of things, including splits with his hives:

http://anarchyapiaries.org/hivetools/node/14

.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Should I feed the new split even if they are bringing in pollen? 

If you gave them both resources and there is nectar coming in I see no reason to feed them. That would be more likely to hurt by setting off robbing than help. Queenless hives are more susceptible to robbing in my observation.


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