# SHB prevention and management



## LeifLiberty (Sep 23, 2014)

I would like to find a way to inexpensively prevent and manage SHB. 

I have seen the West traps but I do not want to deal with oil spilling, etc. If I could replace the oil with something like tanglefoot, petroleum jelly (a small amount), or a "beetle bee gone" cloth then that might be a viable option. 
I am simply curious what people have tried. 

Is there a Bt that works against both SHB and wax moth larva that I could spray beneath the hive?


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

There is no version of Bt that will target small hive beetles, AFAIK.

I use an 'oil tray' style bottom board that is completely enclosed (except for the screen above the tray). If you don't want to use oil in that kind of tray, diatomaceous earth (in place of the oil) is one option. Be sure there are no openings allowing bees access to the DE, the DE can kill all kinds of insects (including bees) if they get in contact with it. The fine DE particles act as an abrasive on the soft parts of the insect bodies and they get dehydrated. More here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatomaceous_earth

.


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## LeifLiberty (Sep 23, 2014)

DE sounds like it might be a bit better because it would be simpler to dispose of but it still might be messy and spill. Has anybody tried tanglefoot?


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## vdotmatrix (Apr 5, 2014)

ON SHB: try everything.
Nematodes
DE in water solution and applied where you want it.
beetle jail
wintergreen oil
hive tool

the last ting I used with a lot of success is the beetle barn with ADVION in it. 

I have seen a reduction of SHB and will continue the fight against these pests....




LeifLiberty said:


> I would like to find a way to inexpensively prevent and manage SHB.
> 
> I have seen the West traps but I do not want to deal with oil spilling, etc. If I could replace the oil with something like tanglefoot, petroleum jelly (a small amount), or a "beetle bee gone" cloth then that might be a viable option.
> I am simply curious what people have tried.
> ...


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## LeifLiberty (Sep 23, 2014)

Is Advion safe in your hive, even separated from the bees?


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## GSkip (Dec 28, 2014)

LeifLiberty said:


> Is Advion safe in your hive, even separated from the bees?


It's safe to use in your kitchen cabinets for roaches. The roaches or beetles eat it, crawl away and die. You could put it in a beetle trap outside the hive and protected from rain. It attracts beetles and roaches (maybe other bugs). Just my 15 minutes of experience, so what do I know!


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## LeifLiberty (Sep 23, 2014)

Ok. This is also would not be practical, but I wish I could fill a west trap with lava.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

I started a thread on the commercial forum not long ago asking if they - the people who do this for a living - do anything to control SHB other than keep colonies strong healthy and queenright, and the answer was no. 

The ONLY chemical which is approved for hive beetles is Checkmite plus - but you don't need that either. You don't need traps or ground treatments either. You need strong healthy hives with great nutrition, low mite loads and productive queens. 

Almost 100% of SHB meltdowns I have experienced have been either queenless or splits (especially mating nucs) that were made too weak - or lousy with varroa or starving and stressed (from robbing sometimes.) Adult beetles are not really indicative of a problem as long as there aren't any of these other factors involved.

Management - Do inspections often enough to detect and address queenlessness before populations crash. Manage mites. Ensure good nutrition, prevent robbing. If a hive population is weak either give it more bees or reduce volume. Take care of the bees and the bees will deal with the beetles.

One more thing - when comb gets slimed throw it away. You can clean it, and a strong hive will use it in the spring, but when dearth sets in and populations reduce that comb will be the first they abandon, and it becomes a cheap motel for adult beetles. They seem to be drawn to it even as the bees are repelled.

I freaked out a little when I first encountered them too, but after trying just about every approach I'm pretty sure that nearly 100% of beetle traps are bought by hobbyists. And I AM 100% sure they are more trouble than they are worth.


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## LeifLiberty (Sep 23, 2014)

That makes sense. I would however like to have some kind of trap simply to help me know when beetles have infiltrated a hive. Would not want a beetle to have a chance to do anything beyond become trapped. Basically an additional indicator of hive health.


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## vdotmatrix (Apr 5, 2014)

Apparently it is. John uses it and sells these traps. He adds a dab of fipronyl in the corners of the traps and kills many many SHB. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0mO-cYTZ58

It has been my experience in the last 10 days that I have reduced the number of SHB by 90% of adult SHB. I used one hive as a control and when I open that hive and flip the inner ocver i counted 15 of them little fkrs running around and squashed them with my hive tool. I am counting the days for the next cycle after the reducton of adult population to be sure deal with larva as they emerge. Fighting these fkrs is not a one treatment affair. you have to try everything- I have.

So far I have not seen mass kill off in any hive since using these traps and when I get back I will hellp my control hive and reduce the SHB population. When I open the rtraps I find lots of dead SHB that otherwise would be scurrying around in the hive.





LeifLiberty said:


> Is Advion safe in your hive, even separated from the bees?


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## LeifLiberty (Sep 23, 2014)

That video is impressive. I would worry about just dumping the dead, poisoned beetles on the ground though. I wonder if birds would try to eat the poisoned beetles? Maybe I could just dump the beetles into a coffee can or something... I guess the trap is too big for the bees to drag out of the hive, heh.


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## vdotmatrix (Apr 5, 2014)

my big concern and it is a constant concern is the killing ction of the fipronyl. The beetles hide inside this nice dark safe harbor frm the harrassing bees with all the yummy stuff I care to eat as a beetle and die eating it as I see as in the video. My concern is mr. beetle eats and then leaves the traps. What happens then. the stuff has a killing action to it. I am going to catch a few hive beetles and make a video of them ingesting this stuff and see how long it takes for them to become immobilized. Another thing I have seen inside the traps are a cluster of what looks like SHB larva? I took some pictures and have to somehow isolate and recrop the picture.


LeifLiberty said:


> That video is impressive. I would worry about just dumping the dead, poisoned beetles on the ground though. I wonder if birds would try to eat the poisoned beetles? Maybe I could just dump the beetles into a coffee can or something... I guess the trap is too big for the bees to drag out of the hive, heh.


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## vdotmatrix (Apr 5, 2014)

ROSSMAN APIARIES...sorry ...i forgot that this is probably the worst place to buy anything....i just priced 2 of the beetle barns from this company which 3.5"x3.5" and as thick as a cd case at $1.50 each, so $3 for both but they want $16.50 to send it to me. This really really ^&%&^%^ me off.

John Pluta charges $5 A PIECE pp. 


http://www.gabees.com/store/product...d=370&osCsid=861c2df76bb6706055686edf79af6abb

and

http://www.gabees.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=41_71&products_id=361

I may be switching to check mite.....UPDATE: I guess I am switching to CHECKMITE. MANNLAKE has the cheapest price for this and the cheapest shipping at $7.65 priority. $43 to my door-just ordered.


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## LeifLiberty (Sep 23, 2014)

Does not look like CheckMite is approved for use in TN... (Not sure)

I feel like there should be a way to make a trap a bit like the fly traps with the funnels where a fly can enter but can not navigate out. I know SHB can fly but I bet not as well as a fly, so if a fly can be trapped why not a SHB?

http://animalrights.about.com/od/wildlife/ss/HomemadeFruitFlyTrap.htm

I do not think bait would be needed but rather make the opening on the entrance small enough for only the SHB to enter and be something of an escape from the hive. They go in the trap and plop directly into a coffee can or something.
The part I have not figured out is how best to make this attach to the hive. 

I am thinking a beetle can fit into the plastic sandwich board material used for political signs. That could be made to fit through the front of the hive entrance connected to a funnel directed into the coffee can... Then no poison is needed, the beetles are trapped, and can be collected and counted when ever.

My first thought was to cut a hole in the bottom of the bottom board and screen it with hardware cloth small enough that the bees can't get past, but the SHB can. Then the beetles fall directly into the funnel into the coffee can, peanut butter jar or whatever.


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## vdotmatrix (Apr 5, 2014)

look on youtube some did the very same thing....man i hate SHB.


LeifLiberty said:


> Does not look like CheckMite is approved for use in TN... (Not sure)
> 
> I feel like there should be a way to make a trap a bit like the fly traps with the funnels where a fly can enter but can not navigate out. I know SHB can fly but I bet not as well as a fly, so if a fly can be trapped why not a SHB?
> 
> ...


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## LeifLiberty (Sep 23, 2014)

BeeBad said:


> look on youtube some did the very same thing....man i hate SHB.


Link?


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## vdotmatrix (Apr 5, 2014)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TmlLbk42nY&list=PLy1ky6PoAqDOdF0sG1EcQ60aTNl7tGjMy&index=33


LeifLiberty said:


> Link?


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## ToeOfDog (Sep 25, 2013)

Just a thought. It's September. We have had three nights with lows in the 50's. Summer is over! SHB love heat and then some. Their population will naturally shrink now. Go make an oil pan like Radar or Rusty Hills if you feel the need to do something. But what do I know <GG>


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## vdotmatrix (Apr 5, 2014)

Man I suddenly saw the temp drop as you say right at a critical time when I have thrown everything at the SHB issue I had. Where I sue to see an alarming scattering of SHB when I removed the feeder board I se NOTHING. I did find some SHB deeper in the hive but no where the numbers I saw a week or 2 ago. So is it the temps or is it the Beetle barn? I found an old cookie sheet and stuck it under the hive with some mineral oil in it. The handi wipes thing was a pain, the beetle jail is great but the little buggers figure out how to hide just under the cover without falling in ....the beetle barn I think is very effective but the bait is not approved in side the hive....


ToeOfDog said:


> Just a thought. It's September. We have had three nights with lows in the 50's. Summer is over! SHB love heat and then some. Their population will naturally shrink now. Go make an oil pan like Radar or Rusty Hills if you feel the need to do something. But what do I know <GG>


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

Strong Healthy Hives= SHB Control. G


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## ToeOfDog (Sep 25, 2013)

biggraham610 said:


> Strong Healthy Hives= SHB Control. G


Amen

Especially Queenright


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## frustrateddrone (Jan 31, 2015)

I did a Ferrell Bee Removal from an owl house. This is the last one I will ever bring back to my bee yard. I didn't see any hive beetles, but 3 days after I removed them into a Nuc Box the outside had flies. Immediately I suited up and took off the top of the Nuc Box. Comb was 50 to 75 percent destroyed from SHB Larvae. I saw some SHB scurry too. I have never seen them before this. Went and got a box to transfer the frames. Got my torch out and torched the box. Put the top box on the Nuc and strapped it down. I froze the frames. The next day the bees were gone. 

It's a rather sickening feeling knowing you have just introduced something horrible and knowing I could be battling this for years


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## LeifLiberty (Sep 23, 2014)

I do not suppose there is some way to quarantine a cut out with some roach motels or something?


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## ToeOfDog (Sep 25, 2013)

Each one of my colonies has a small amount of SHB. If you live somewhere hot, ie: Deep South, you will get them. The point is to keep them under control. You will never have SHB free colonies. They fly. The best thing is to have strong colonies, especially in July and August. If you let a colony get weak like you did, it will get slimed. 

You don't need to substitute poison for good management techniques.


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## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

The best prevention for SHB is full sun, a strong hive and an impermeable surface under the hive. DE under the hive and and oil tray under the screened bottom board rounds out a good prevention program. SHB eat fruit and things like that. They do not need bees to survive and they can fly for miles. All we can do is help the bees as much as we can and they will control the SHB.


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

Fatbeeman has a video where he is making beetle traps out of corrugated plastic sign material.

You need four things:
Corrugated plastic signs
Boric acid powder
Crisco
Stapler

Cut the signs into squares about 4 inches square.
Take the piece and scrape it in crisco so that one end of the tunnels gets closed with crisco.
Insert boric acid powder into the tunnels and then cap the other ends with crisco.

You staple the trap onto the bottom board. You have to staple it down or the bees drag it around. 

There's how you do it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_KDPp8H6PU


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Anyone having success with the FBM method?


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

frustrateddrone said:


> I did a Ferrell Bee Removal from an owl house. This is the last one I will ever bring back to my bee yard. I didn't see any hive beetles, but 3 days after I removed them into a Nuc Box the outside had flies. Immediately I suited up and took off the top of the Nuc Box. Comb was 50 to 75 percent destroyed from SHB Larvae. I saw some SHB scurry too. I have never seen them before this. Went and got a box to transfer the frames. Got my torch out and torched the box. Put the top box on the Nuc and strapped it down. I froze the frames. The next day the bees were gone.
> 
> It's a rather sickening feeling knowing you have just introduced something horrible and knowing I could be battling this for years


Cutting odd shaped/sized comb and putting into frames can be difficult. If pieces are pushed together or cell are slightly crushed you can give SHB a place to hide and lay eggs undisturbed by bees. The smell of open cut honey comb can attract even more. I suspect this is what happened, and 3 days it the right amount of time.


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## rookie2531 (Jul 28, 2014)

If a few hive beetles are no concern for a strong hive, but you make splits and sell nucs. Wouldn't you be turned off, if you were a buyer and saw even a couple beetles. How is one suppose to rid them of these smaller nucs? Are they just not a problem in the spring? I split and sold a few and never saw one, until I split again for myself, later in the summer. Now I have seen them in about half my hives. I am concerned about selling off nucs with shb in them. I just can't see doing it. Wouldn't that give me a bad rep?


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

I look at it like this, there are a lot of things that you have to deal with when keeping bees. A strong hive keeps SHB in check. Be it 2 frames or 40. As long as it is strong they cant get away with much. If you knowingly sold a nuc that was loaded with beetles, then it probably wasn't a very strong nuc to begin with. If you treat for beetles and sell a week later, who's to say that there wouldn't be new intruders. I don't know. I expect to see a few beetles, usually corralled in a corner by bees in a populous hive. G


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## LeifLiberty (Sep 23, 2014)

dsegrest said:


> The best prevention for SHB is full sun, a strong hive and an impermeable surface under the hive.


What type of impermeable surface have you used? I thought about thick plastic covered with gravel but that is an expense. I only want to try things with a proven success history.


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## giarc18 (Mar 25, 2015)

I use the fbm method. Does it work? Hard to tell. I have shb but my hives not overrun. Sometimes the little holes are clear of the crisco, indicating the beetles have been eating it and hopefully the poison too , and sometimes they look untouched. Still have a few beetles scurrying around either way. They're cheap and easy to make so why not. 
Giarc


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## quigibo (Jun 23, 2014)

After losing 1 hive this year to the SHB's I built a stand for my hives to get them off the ground. I put the a couple of Beetle Blaster traps in with oil in each. My check over the weekend was the first where I did not see a beetle. Traps had beetles in them which shows they are working. Thought I would try something different so the hive smell would not be an attractant to the SHB's. I got a bunch of used coffee grinds that S.Bucks has and dumped them around the hives. Smells like coffee and not honey. Only bad thing I have noticed about the oil filled traps is they tend to stick to the top boxes when I lift one which can be a pain when you need to set a box down with a beetle trap stuck to the bottom.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

We have had really good results with beetle blasters filled with Apple Cider Vinegar. Wasted a ton of time with oil, oil vinegar and other concoctions. Use a an old dish-washing liquid bottle well cleaned, pop in the trap and fill it.


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## jbeshearse (Oct 7, 2009)

I use diatomaceous earth in the beetle blasters. No slosh, dessicates the beetles, no smell. Once full you can shake the beetles and old DE out and reuse. I use a large bore hypo to fill (think turkey basted injector).

i also use full bottom board traps with DE for an even more effective beetle killer.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

jbeshearse said:


> I use diatomaceous earth in the beetle blasters. No slosh, dessicates the beetles, no smell. Once full you can shake the beetles and old DE out and reuse. I use a large bore hypo to fill (think turkey basted injector).
> 
> i also use full bottom board traps with DE for an even more effective beetle killer.


What lures the beetles into the traps?


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## jbeshearse (Oct 7, 2009)

The bees chase the beetles into the traps. Bait is not required.


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## quigibo (Jun 23, 2014)

If you have shb's and want to see how the bees react to them take the boxes off and watch the bottom board. The bees chase them around and they will heard them to the edges/corners. When they get mad enough because they cant get them to go where they want I have seen them grab the shb, pick it up and fly off. No idea how far they take them before dropping. To help get rid of the shb's I was swapping out my bottom boards every few weeks. The cracks had a bunch of them. Needless to say I filled in all the cracks which helped eliminate the problem.


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## dghealy (May 28, 2015)

can you tell me where I can by the traps used by John Pluta in the video?


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