# Mr Gomez



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

My suggestion to ANYone using ANY method of mite control is monitor the results. 
http://entomology.unl.edu/beekpg/tidings/btid2000/btdjan00.htm#Article2 

Here is one method that uses powdered sugar and is non chemical and useful for measuring mite infestation.

If your method is not working, make adjustments. Try to figure out if you're following the protocol. If you are, try something different. If you're fogging with FGMO and it's not working, try fogging longer and more often and see what happens. 

If the infestation does not clear up do something different. You have to choose what, but there are alternatives. There is Apistan, Check Mite, Oxalic acid, essential oils, drone comb for a mite magnet, Screened botom boards etc. You have to make up your mind what you are willing to do. What level of chemical interference you are willing to accept, how much labor are you willing to invest, but the most important thing is to measure the results. Don't assume something is working. All of these may fail if certain conditions, resistance to chemcicals etc. occur.

That's my opinion.


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2003)

Nice to have the one page here an I drop my message again here too, fore all beekeeper.

Hello beekeeper, I have bin here for few months and got registered too this board today. I following all conversations about FMGO and all I can say I worked with metodo from FMGO Papa now long enough an say to all,
Do not longer following this way, do not bring longer all scrap into your bee hives.
Do you know what mess it is to make cords for 41 hives during the year? The bees work to bring cord out, do you know what mess it is in the hives during the year? Foging all week during the year do you know what work it is during the ano? After 3 year cant sell pollen any more to costomers while have now minimal oil in pollen. Result from official test here in Spain, not from FMGO Papa. 

Look fore differend kind of metodo an go many ways. Thank to FMGO Papa from here I lost 33 colonies from 41 and not sure last 8 will survive long. 
Manuel from Spain


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

A little clarification please,
metodo = method? I think
Papa = Dr. R? probably
scrap = crap? obviously cords.
I think I got your message, this was for those that had trouble like I did.

Question, what is ano?
Why can't you sell your pollen?
And what official test in Spain?
Bill


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## beeman 202 (Jan 8, 2003)

ano=year


we need more spanish on this channel

yo hablo espanol, si?


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2003)

Mr. Gomez,
How did oil get into your pollen? This should have been gathered daily by your bees and collected BEFORE they went into the hive. What do you do, scrape out the pollen cells and try to sell it? FGMO did NOT kill your bees. Don't worry Maggie.


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## Dr. Pedro Rodriguez (Feb 5, 2002)

I honestly believe that Mr. Gomez is not real. He has not spoken to me not to other people with wom I in contact. I am sure that had he been agrieved as seriously as he sounds, Mr. Gomez would have made his complaits to me rather than at the forum. His type of "postings" have been tried at another FGMO forum with the same end result. Those who tried made so many blatant mistakes that they were found out and soon gave up. FGMO speaks for itself. Those on this forum who have used FGMO for several years now, Helmut alias Juan De Fuca, for one will attest to this fact that FGMO is an efficient and economic acaricide.
I have nothing to sell except good faith and my professional reputation. I do not receive subsides nor any other monetary gain for telling people about the benefits of FGMO. I have opted to post it on this page for the benefit of beekeepers worldwide. I have healthy honey bees thriving on nothing more than FGMO. That makes me happy. I hope that it will make many more beekeeprs happy.

Food for thought. Since Mr. Gomez is now posting on this forum, I would like to invite Mr. Gomez to tell subscribers to this forum what kind of subsidies are given to beekeepers in Spain for treating their bees with other (than FGMO) pesticides. 
Best regards.
Dr. Rodriguez


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## Dr. Pedro Rodriguez (Feb 5, 2002)

Hi every one.
I read one of my posts to the forum and realized that I have made a bunch of mispellings. My most sincere apologies for not editing my contributions before posting. My use of the English language might be flawed but that does not excuse carelessness. 
Best regards.
Dr. Rodriguez


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## Juandefuca (Mar 16, 2000)

Mr Gomez 
Your post is so full of holes it does warrant any reply . Total rubbish . 
JDF
P S Come to think of it : If your pollen is full of mineral oil , it might be a better way to apply it as a laxative than in it's original state ,should you be constipated .


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## Juandefuca (Mar 16, 2000)

relative to spelling 
POne of the conveninces I miss in this "reply" affair is a spell checker.
Anyone can miiiisssstype , I do htis more often than not since I is / are two finger typist of frofouynd speed . 
Have a splendid day , or better: make it one 
JDF


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## Dr. Pedro Rodriguez (Feb 5, 2002)

Hello folks.
I have written to some of the FGMO forum members to their privaste e-mail address regarding Mr. Gomez post. Should anyone else be interested in what I had to reply privately, plesse write and let me know. In short, Mr. Gomez post was a hoax.
Touche, brother. Helmut. My hat is off to you!
Best regards.
Dr. Rodriguez


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Hi all -

In light of this recent exchange, I'd like to remind everyone that we remain civil to each other. Without any one of us fully knowing who Manuel Jose Gomez is or whether he is being less than honest, we must proceed with proper decorum. It is far more substantive to ask the right questions of Mr. Gomez to see if his statements hold up as truth. If specifics won't be given, than it will be seen as hearsay or anecdotal.

Regards,
Barry


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## Guest (Feb 6, 2003)

Thanks Barry for your last word. 

I wonder why the two brothers react so strong and I hope they have nothing to hide, or cant they hear the true?
I also wonder why one brother recommended to the other brother to use a spellchecker? Thats not nice between so big friends!
Well I like to ask JDF how is your second language? 

Now to the FGMO papa because of his hoax, in my opinions he is an itinerant preacher and not a vet. He is always talking to his brothers and sisters and Im sure in a while he is looking for his apostles.

I wonder why he made commends about selling, subsides or benefits? I hope I didnt hit a wasp nest?

I honestly believe that Mr. Gomez is not real. He has not spoken to me not to other people with wom I in contact.

Why should I talk to brother papa when I find out his FMGO didnt work? I was reading several articles on different groups from him. If beekeeper has problems he always has an answer or excuse. I know many beekeepers working with FMGO and a second medication so bees can survive!

All I like to do is warning beekeeping brothers for his treatment. Hold your eyes open and used a second possibility for your bees, just in case. 
I made a mistake not to go two ways!

And now to his questions to proof Im not a hoax. 

Before I went to the wrong medication (FMGO) I treated my bees with the liquid product from Bayer most of you know it as Perizin others know it as Chumaphos. A few years ago I heard a lecture from Jose Antonio Ruiz about control Varroa with Timol but I didnt use the Apitimol microencapsulado they are selling here or the Apistan. Brother papa for your information he is an investigator at CAAPE and almost in my age. 

The regulations here are different from province to province that what I heard from a friend. Im not a member of a club and I learned beekeeping from my friend and now we helping each other.

In this case I have to tell how honest many beekeeper here are. 

Some official looking what beekeeper using to treat the bees, but most not. The world competition for honey is big and the commercial beekeepers have to hold the costs as low as possible.
I think what they doing here is a time bomb and it cant take long than they have same trouble on world honey marked like China. 
MANY beekeepers using a CHEMICAL called SUPONA and the substance is Clorfenvinfos. As a vet, brother papa should know that this is used here in Spain to control ticks, lice, fleas from cats and dogs and ---------the Varroa too.
Here is the address where a friend got that CHEMICAL.

Fort Dodge Veterinaria S.A.
Ctra. Camprodón, s/n. "La Riba"
E-17613 Vall de Biania (Girona)
Spain

I hope to find someone here who can give me an idea what other methods are more successful without using CHEMICAL like Supona. 

And only a very short note to Juandefuca, sorry but I think your not one of the brainy people here on the forum. I mean because or your strange reaction to my first note here.

Best wishes to all
Manuel


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Thank you Manuel for your reply.

However, you still didn't give specifics to your method.
For me, the key information you did shared with us is this:

"Before I went to the wrong medication (FMGO) I treated my bees with the liquid product from Bayer most of you know it as Perizin others know it as Chumaphos."

I asked you in another forum to give us much more details of your experience using FGMO. I still hope you will do this so we can hopefully better understand why FGMO didn't work for you.

Since you used coumaphos in your hives prior to FGMO, one has consider this very important bit of information. Coumaphos is known to leave residues in comb and build up over time. Simply stopping its use does not mean you are free from its effects, as they are lasting. Did you start with new wax combs when you started using FGMO? How many years did you use coumaphos? Your bees could have already been on their way crashing and no amount of FGMO could change that. There are a lot of variables to consider here and more information would be helpful.

I believe Helmut used coumaphos before using FGMO, is this correct Helmut? Can you shed some light on your transition to MO? How many years did you use coumaphos? Was there a significant drop in hive numbers during this transition?

Again, let's leave the personal attacks at home.


Regards,
Barry

[This message has been edited by Barry (edited February 08, 2003).]


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## Guest (Feb 6, 2003)

Hello Mr. Gomez,
Are you the same person as listed in "Vida Apicola" as Jose Miguel Gomez who owns a "factory of beehives" in Valencia Spain (or is this your Papa)? Your e-mail goes to Apicultural Industries ALSOL, also in Valencia Spain. What type of products do you sell?
How did FGMO get into your pollen for three years? Who did your "official" test in Spain-what were the results?
Thanks for getting back to the forum.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Success and failure of any method is in the details. Its in the details of the execution and its in the details of the circumstances.

This may seem off the subject but sometimes we have to back up from a subject to get some perspective, so let me use a real life illustration to make my point.

A friend of mine had the pressure tank on their well rust through. It was leaking badly. She called another friend who took a short lag screw (very coarse threads) and a rubber gasket and screwed it into the hole. Predictably, it did not stop the leak. I looked at it and suggested we could get a fine threaded self-tapping screw for an automobile oil pan and drill the appropriate size hole, put some gasket sealer on the bolt and a rubber gasket on it and try to seal it with that. The man who had tried the lag screw pointed to the screw and said, we already tried that and it didnt work.

Well, we did try my plan and it did work. So my first point is:

THE SOLUTION ONLY WORKS IF IT IS WELL EXECUTED.

I wasnt sure it would work. Why? Not because I didnt think it was a good plan, but because there were circumstances that I could not know, like how large the rusted area in the tank was and whether there would be enough solid metal to hold the threads. These were things that could also cause a good plan; even a well executed one, to fail.

My second point is:

EVEN A WELL EXECUTED PLAN CAN FAIL BECUASE OF OTHER CIRCUMSTANCES.

Back to FGMO. I have conversed with many people who are using FGMO with good success. I have also heard from people posting here who have said they had failures. In order for all of us to learn from these successes and failures we need to determine what methods on what schedule were used by both the successes and the failures.

We also need to determine the other contributing circumstances that could have affected the success or failure. Its obvious to me from the evidence so far, that FGMO is effective to some degree against mites. Some have found it remarkably effective. How effective is controlled by both the details of the implementation and the circumstances.

So far people reporting failure usually just say things like I tried FGMO and it didnt work. This is not constructive. If you could detail the exact kind of oil, the methods of application, the amount applied, the schedule of application this could be useful for all of us.

People also say they tried FGMO and it DID work. Again, it would be useful for all of us if they would specify what application method was used, what their schedule was and if they had other Integrated Pest Management procedures that would contribute to its success and if they had or have some monitoring methods to check for infestation and what the results of that monitoring were.

My observation is that there is still no magic pill, no silver bullet. If you are of a mind to not use poisons in your hive, then the most promising directions to explore right now seem to be FGMO, Small Cell, genetics, drone brood for trapping mites and essential oils.

I have heard of several people using combinations of Screened Bottom boards and FGMO fog and succeeding. I have reports of people using Small Cell and Genetics and succeeding. I have not heard very many people who are using only one thing and succeeding.

If you care about your bees, whatever you use for treating mites, you need to monitor the results. Mite populations can explode in a matter of days and decimate your hives. Maybe we need to work out what is an acceptable level of infestation AT A PARTICULAR TIME OF YEAR. What is the level in the summer that will cause the sudden mite population explosion and failure in the fall? Obviously there are ALWAYS mites and there are ALWAYS more of them in the fall. At what level can we predict we are going to be in trouble in the fall? At what level of infestation can we predict that things are going well?

If we are going to share information, we need enough information to be useful.


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## Juandefuca (Mar 16, 2000)

JAnswer to Mr. Gomez

To all who are interested in using FGMO 

I have on many occasions explained why, and how I use the application and find it is here not required to repeat the saga over and over again. I also stated how I came across FGMO by Dr Pedro Rodriguez. 
I have no other affiliation with the Dr than anybody else, except for my attitude towards him and my tendency to try everything at least once if it sounds reasonable. He calls me Brother  as many people call another person brother or sister in a colored community.
Since I am also inclined to root for Underdogs because of my own background long time ago. I defend him against unreasonable hearsay whenever it occurs. And I would do that for anybody else deserving my attention. Otherwise I have no axe to grind for anybody or about anybody. 
I am also disliked by some characters because I have the tendency to say as it is or rather as I see it. But I do not give a rats butt about that, because one cannot please everybody, the well-known platitude. Before I continue may I point out that MR (Whats his name?) M J Gomez .has referred to me as not a brainy person. I have no problem with that comment since my brainlessness is simply a reflection of the posts origin, that is Mr. Gomez in this case. I have been called better than that and people were jealous because I was still alive returning from one of those Gulags we were subjected to 
All posts related to the FGMO application in this section of the forum reflect a sound understanding of the principle or reasonable requests for further information or experiences. . We cannot expect however the sudden impact by this method a noticeable change as it is with also ANY OTHER miticide. 
May it also be said : all treaments for Varroa destructor or other haplo types have FAILED to bring the demise of the mite on permanent basis and CONTAMINATED to a large degree the products of the bee hive , hereby passing poisonous substances onto the general public ! Stuff that under your collar ,Mr Gomez as well as the chemical substance peddlers . 
An apiary inspector told me that IF a tracheal mite infection is rampant there is nothing you can apply to save the colony. It will perish. And Varroa is no different. 
My respect goes to all of those which apply this FGMO thing for the benefit for them selves and hereby others. 
IF, in two or three years after recommended applications the result would be negative. Well, then let it is so. I have distinct hopes that it will work because the originator has tested it for some 7 years, has verification etc. and one test is as good as any other if applied properly. For me it would this coming spring to reveal the results of the application after the 3rd winter.
As far as the mechanics of the application goes, It is still ongoing and nor reason to bash it. If you have any beef, then explain how you can make it better or more convenient, we all would appreciate that sort of positive input. 
I am totally aghast by the evaluation Mr. Gomez relates to the so-called messiness of the emulsion or fog. 
Theyre three of us around here (May be more now, but they keep it under the hat), which apply the FGMO and find not a visible trace of any mess.
Now I would submit to MR Gomez a few questions: 
1;The Standard in Spain is to give subsidies for chemical treatments to beekeepers. I have been told they do that in Switzerland also to control the whereabouts of the chemical.
2;Since Mr. Gomez told us he used chemical treatments, he must have received those subsidies.
3;Are you, Mr. Gomez a merchant of chemical pesticides or is anyone in your family in this kind of business?
4;What is your connection to INDUSTRIAS APICOLAS, S.L.
5;Does this afore mentioned company sell chemical pesticides for mites?
6; Are veterinarians required to sign prescriptions for chemical pesticides in order for beekeepers to purchase them ?
7;What is the commission veterinarians get when they sign prescriptions for chemical pesticides for beekeepers?
8; You may so kind to give us beekeepers a straight answer and do not attempt to play Saddam Hussain . I like you to know we American beekeepers are not born yesterday and have resources of information possibly exceeding yours 
SINCE YOU POSTED ON THIS FORUM YOU MUST BE READY TO TAKE THE HEAT. So stand up and report truthfully and not attempt to advertise your merchandise. 
Another item : I did not critisize Dr Rodriguezs spelling but asked for a spellchecker in this forum since most of us are far removed from being professional typists and make constant errors . 
Happy beeing 
JDF




uandefuca


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## Dr. Pedro Rodriguez (Feb 5, 2002)

To JDF, Mike G., fellow beekeeprs and all other brothers. Yes, all of you are my brothers sharing a common goal on this planet. May The Good Lord keep you and yours in health and faith whatever that might be.
To all of you who use FGMO, thanks for your trust in my work. 
To those who have yet not tried it, may you
be inclined to give it a chance. 
To those of you who are inclined to bash it, for whatever reason you may have, may your conscience be your guide to enlightenment.
To those of you who may feel inclined to re-invent the whell and attempt to claim credit for it, may the Good Lord be the Judge to grant rewards. 
And lastly, may The Good Lord give us strength to continue in search of better ways to save our bees as a means to protect humanity.
My very best to you all.
Dr. Rodriguez


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## Dr. Pedro Rodriguez (Feb 5, 2002)

Hello again.
My apologies. Even though I edited my last post, I missed a word that was not spelled correctly. Instead of re-invent the whell, the phrase should read, "re-invent the wheel."
Have a wonderful weekend and may The Good Lord grant us peace. For those of you who may not be up to the meaning of English language slang, "re-inventar la rueda."
Best regards.
Dr. Rodriguez


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## Juandefuca (Mar 16, 2000)

Hi to all 
but spacifically I like to refer to Barry's request to comment on this Coumaphose application event .
I used mostly Apistan and other miticides for treating or testing puposes prior to 1999.
In the fall of that year I applied in one or two colonies the Bayer product with the ingredient Coumaphose . 
The result was devastating for the Varroa mite . I estimated about 8000 drop off in one colony. ( THE count of one inch square by the number of squares on the sticky sheet.)Wow , that scared the heck out of me . This colony eventually croaked the early following season. 
As I said before I stopped using all of so called "chemicals" of the adverse nature and began using FGMO exclusively.
Insofar how much of coumaphose contaminated with the recommended duration the wax portion of the hive I do not know . I am guilty of course not having replaced the foundations ( Combs) to be perfectly kosher . Neither do I know at this time which hardware was involved or is still existing since quite a few were repaired or junked . 
I am indeed not very perfect 
Your's 
JDF


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## Dr. Pedro Rodriguez (Feb 5, 2002)

Hello folks.
You may have noticed that as a whole I stay away from making comments about pesticides brands or manufacturers. It is just not in my taste to put blame on these. 
However, it is important to stress at this point that it has definitely been established that honey bee mites have developed resistance to these and that in time they will definitely develop resistance to any organic pestice (including thymol, oxalic, formic acid, etc.). I have made reference to Italian researchers who have stated this very assertion. Chemical analysis of honey from hives treated with these pesticides have shown pesticides residues in homey in several states of the union and abroad. 
My point: Those are my reasons for continuing to work with FGMO, firstly because there is not a chance in eternity that mites will ever develop resitance to FGMO. And secondly, the amounts of FGMO being used are infinitesimal. FGMO applied in the dosages that I have recommended stick to the honey bees and are taken out of the bee hive when the bees go out to die, or is taken out of the hive when the house cleaning bees take out dead bees from the hive and dump them out. Granted, FGMO is lipid soluble and this means that it could eventually penetrate the combs and become a residue. This has not been found yet. When it happens, if it does, I'll be the first to announce it. 
Final point: Given the two analogies, wouldn't you rather work with toxic free subtances knowing that your bees will be protected and yet your hives will remain pesticide free? You are the owner of your bees, make your best judgement. 
Best regards.
Dr. Rodriguez


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## Juandefuca (Mar 16, 2000)

To whom it may be of interest 
Since sufficient time has past for Mr Gomez to set things in order but nothing but dead silence is emitted from that quarter , we must assume his argunents died along the way many others did before him. Of course we also must assume that he A: Was a fictional character or B : was a paid individual and lives happily thereafter . 
Yours with wishes of happy fooging 
JDF


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## maggiebee (Jan 11, 2003)

Hey Everyone
I think that Mr. JDF has the right idea. We should not pay any attention to Mr. Gomez. We all have better things to discuss other than his ravings. I sent him an email and I promised him that I would not respond to him in any fashion at any time unless he was willing to 'show me the facts'. We should all do the same. Have a great day. (yes,even Mr G)

Mike Garitta


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## Guest (Feb 24, 2003)

I wonder why youre getting so nervous and waiting for more answers from myself?
I told you what happen and posted a message here so I dont want to waste my time with you anymore.

Someone on this group couldnt hear the truth and deleted my message. 
I noticed, that this method is the American Way of free speech. 

I also noticed that I hit a wasp nest and Im not interested to argue with arrogant prepossessed people. I must have really hit the nail because after more than 2 weeks someone cant stop putting gas in the fire. 

This gives me the assurance those people related with the big birds called ostrich. It says in an encyclopedia, ostriches are animals with the smallest brain compare to the body weight. 
The right people on this group know exact what I mean and I wish you all a nice day.

Manuel from Spain


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## Juandefuca (Mar 16, 2000)

Hey ,What's up ?? Where are all the other posts at this forum ??? The LAST ONE HERE IS FROM FEB 8th .Where is the other page ? There should be 23 posts
JDF


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Helmut -

They were deleted due to the lack of civility and lack of evidence to support a claim being made. It started with flame bait, and the bait was taken, and a war ensued. Not the kind of exchange that should be given space on this board.

Regards,
Barry


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## clintonbemrose (Oct 23, 2001)

Thanks Barry
Clint

------------------
Clinton Bemrose
just South of Lansing Michigan


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## Juandefuca (Mar 16, 2000)

Hi Barry
I just found your reply .
No problem here . I hope I was not the cause.Looking back on what I had to say , I do not see any transgression. 
In any case this subject is final with me.
I just checked today the condition of 4 colonies and find them in excellent shape . although one of them dropped many bees .
But 2 deeps out of 3 are full and did not like the disturbance 
( I worked them without gear , just latex gloves and got stung in neck and wrists) . I am feeding them with pollen patties and sugar syrup just to make sure . No Varroa spotted on those bees visible . But that is normal in my colonies . Again ,I have not treated with Apistan or Check Mite since winter 2000
Small cells are partially drawn where applied but not occupied . 
Helmut


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