# Queen bee wing clipping?



## dannyidp (Jun 10, 2010)

I was wondering about this I have seen where bee suppliers offer queen clipping of course I could do this myself,but I'm very curious about this.would this actually keep the bees from swarming? I have also seen bee suppliers sell Queen bee excluders that go on the entrance to keep the Queen from leaving the hive. does this actually keep your bees from swarming?

Does anybody know where to get a package of Carniolan's close to GA.?

regards,
Dan


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## AR Beekeeper (Sep 25, 2008)

No, clipping the queen will not keep bees from swarming. It does keep the queen from leaving with the prime swarm, this makes the swarm return to the hive. If the beekeeper sees this occur, then he can split the colony. If he does not see the swarm leave and return and does not split the colony then the first virgin to emerge will leave with the prime swarm.

The entrance excluder will keep any queen from exiting the colony, also the drones can't fly out. The drones will be caught in the excluder and die if the excluder remains in place for any length of time. The first virgin to emerge from a swarm cell will kill the old queen but the virgin will not be able to mate and will lay only drones.

The queen excluder on the colony entrance was one of those ideas that was not well thought through and did not become popular because of the problems it caused, that is why they are not in use by beekeepers today.

You don't need to buy a package of carniolan bees, just a package with a carniolan queen. Check on line for producers of packages w/ carniolan queens or look in the beekeeping magazines.


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## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

I do not doubt your queen clipping ability, however if you damage her, like clipping a wing vein, they will make a suitable replacement for the lady. There is also some indications that a queen that cannot leave with the swarm is considered damaged and replaced as well. ABC XYZ references this behavior. You only postpone the inevitable to control swarming by clipping or restricting the queen. There are better, more effective ways, one of which will leave you with more hives.


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## Cactii (Sep 5, 2009)

I've wondered about this at times as well. Thanks for asking the question dannyidp.


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## Michael B (Feb 6, 2010)

While I never clipped any queens wings or managed hives with queen clipped wings, I have a close friend who is a commercial beek who has tried it a few times. He stopped doing it for the primary reason that about 50% of the time the colony view the clipped queen as damaged and replaced her.

He did have a few swarm on him. Mostly the russians. The one benefit of clipped wing swarms is they sure are easy to retrieve. He called me back in June to see it for myself. A swarm of russians in a tight ball crawling in the grass. Kinda funny to see.

Another note, he stopped marking his queens too. To a lesser extent the bees would replace the marked queen too. He said about 20-30% of the time. He had occassions were the marked queen was not replaced but the marking was removed by the bees in 10-14 days.

Amazing insects.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

Most of my bees are 3 to 20 miles from my home so it's not likely that I would see a ball of bees on the ground with a clipped queen. 

I would prefer to lose a good queen to the surrounding area where she has some chance of surviving.


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## NDnewbeek (Jul 4, 2008)

BeeCurious said:


> I would prefer to lose a good queen to the surrounding area where she has some chance of surviving.


My philosophy exactly (and I lost TWO good ones this past summer!), I never clip them - mark only.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

During swarming, the queen is chased and badgered by the bees until she leaves the hive and swarms. It is not the way the popular story goes, that the queen leads out the swarm.

I have seen a hive trying to swarm that had a queen with a clipped wing. The queen was running around on the outside of the hive being chased mercilessly by the bees, if she could have flown she would have. The swarm hung on a nearby tree, then in a couple of hours realised there was no queen and returned to the hive.

The hive tried to swarm on both of the next two days, then went queenless I'm sure it was killed. It then sent out multiple swarms a few days later when the queen cells hatched.

About the only use for clipping a queen is that you can identify a supersedure positively, if it's wing is not clipped. Swarm control? Forget it.

As to queens being replaced after marking, I used to have a bit of that when i tried a queen holder tool that could put pressure on the abdomen. Now i hold the queen by the legs and have not had problems.


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## Michael B (Feb 6, 2010)

Old timer.....exactly what my friend found. As he has advanced in age he developed a bit of paulsy.......He taught me how to mark a queen by hand. His first time showing me he pressed to hard and dented the queens abdomen. The queen was fine and she is still a good productive queen still today. When I find her I can still see she is deformed. The bees don;t seem to mind that she is dented!

When he used the queen holder he had decent supercedure.....with his paulsy he does not dare hold too many by hand.


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