# Robbing and Yellow Jackets?



## Anaphoria (Feb 18, 2012)

I'm still pretty new/inexperienced with bees and need some advice for how to curtail what looks like robbing with my top bar hive 

I noticed it yesterday and went out, blocked the extra entrances and shoved everything as tight up as I could - my hive has warped since we built it and there are some gaps - stuffed those tight with cardboard. The bees were pretty grumpy, there were lots of yellow jackets and I'm guessing some robbers. So I smashed up as many yellow jackets as I could and the cardboard seemed to help things calm down. Today, I'm still seeing bees hovering around places that aren't the entrance (no yellow jackets at least), I understand these are probably robbers trying to get in. I've got it covered with a big canvas sheet now - how long should I leave this on? I am not sure how bad the damage is since I didn't want to open it.

What can I do to help foil them? What should I do to help out the colony? 

I love my topbar but I feel like i'm having such crummy luck with it - and never the same thing twice.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

Did you leave them any way to get fresh air? If not, you've probably got a dead hive, now.

The robbers will still be interested in acquiring the goods, but there won't be anyone left to use it or help guard it.


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

I have soo many wasps around this year....sometimes I think they are doing better than my bees. We never had so many before I started the hives.

For next year is there any way to keep wasp numbers down? I haven't seen where they come from. I put up traps and the bait bags quickly filled up. Is there an easy inexpensive formula for making your own bait liquid for wasp traps?


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## FollowtheHoney (Mar 31, 2014)

I set traps with various baits. 1 cup sugar syrup, 1 cup apple cider vinegar and a banana peel has worked best. When I had no banana I used watermelon. I have also added a bit of turkey suspended above the liquid with some success. The worst was the pheromone lure from Home Depot . It does not catch them all and you have to refresh them every so often.


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## Anaphoria (Feb 18, 2012)

Yeah - I wrote that poorly. I sealed up the gaps/holes that shouldn't be there and the extra entrances. There is a screened vent and the main 1" entrance open. The blanket is sort of tented over the hive.


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## Anaphoria (Feb 18, 2012)

Having some trouble with posting from my phone... Anyway. 

I'm thinking I caught it too late, or did too little to help. I don't think I sufficated them but maybe I did... 

Yesterday up into the evening there were bees at the entrance that looked to be keeping the yellow jackets out bit looking in the window this morning there are bees but also more yellow jackets inside. 

I'm also seeing way more Yellowjackets this year, I'm guessing they built a nest nearby.


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## AugustC (Aug 7, 2013)

The bees hovering around could well be the hives own foragers returning to find the entrance they usually use blocked. They'll figure it out.

Dealing with robbing, learn last year!
1 Do not feed during the day. Put feed on in the evening and only enough that the bees can take it overnight. If open feeding do not do it near the hive.
2 Put wasp traps AWAY from the hive or you will just attract wasps to it.
3 If robbing is taking place, stop feeding and reduce the entrance down until it is defendable for your colony. This might be just one bee width.
4 If very bad move the hive and put a wasp trap at the original hive location.

WASP TRAP:
Take a two litre soft drink bottle.
Cut off the top at the point it widens out.
Turn top upside and insert into the remaining bottle (like a funnel).
bait trap... kill wasps!

A good bait is a couple of tablespoons of fruit jam (cheaper the better) mixed up with a sugary fizzy drink.


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## Marysia2 (May 23, 2014)

AugustC said:


> WASP TRAP:
> Take a two litre soft drink bottle.
> Cut off the top at the point it widens out.
> Turn top upside and insert into the remaining bottle (like a funnel).
> ...


Why doesn't this attract the bees, too?


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## AugustC (Aug 7, 2013)

Bees are just too clever for such skulduggery


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## Delta Bay (Dec 4, 2009)

If yellow jackets are freely entering the hive it is a weak hive. Strong healthy hives can easily defend against them. If you are seeing a large number of yellow jackets hovering near the ground near the hive there is likely a food source (Dead or sick bees on the ground) that has attracted them there first . From there they test the hives for entry and if they are weak they easily get in. Closing the entrance down so only one bee at a time can pass is helpful but you should still learn what is going on in the hive health wise.


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## Anaphoria (Feb 18, 2012)

*Robbing and Yellow Jackets? = Dead Hive - Now What?*

Thanks everyone for the tips... unfortunately it looks like its been worse than I thought... for a while... I suspect the yellow jackets were there the prey on the fatally weak hive. 
I opened it up today and it was mostly empty. Some dead bees and dead wasps in the bottom, mostly dead wasps around the ground not many dead bees... There were quite a few yellow jackets inside and bees of many colors flying around. No-one seemed to care that I was there so I pried it open bar by bar and got more disappointed the further I went. There couldn't have been more than a couple combs worth of bees inside total. The ones that came out seemed to not stick around because the cloud of bees over the hive wasn't even very big.

On my last inspection at the beginning of September/end of August and it looked fine. 
I didn't open it up too much because the bees had it glued up really well and seemed ornery.... in hindsight maybe it was a clue...
I saw eggs, capped and uncapped brood, lots of honey but I can't recall specifically if I saw _worker _brood now. 
There were several queen cells under construction, but now that all the combs are out I can't tell if they were ever even finished. 
The hive was full, seemed robust and thriving so I wasn't too worried. 

Anyway - so here I am now with a dead hive and combs I don't know what to do with. 

As it is...most of the honeycombs had been uncapped and robbed clean. No brood, no larvae, no sign of a queen.
I took a bunch of pictures, in hopes that someone might be able to help tell me where I went wrong. 
When I looked at them I noticed what seems like eggs. =\ They look haphazard, on the walls and there are many cells with multiple eggs in them. I'm a bit upset I didn't see the eggs before I took the combs in but considering the robber, how few bees there were and that there was only 2 full bars of capped honey left... I'm not sure it would have mattered... The bees that were in the hive all seemed crowded around the honey stores not any of the parts I found the eggs in... I'm wondering if I overlooked a queen-less colony and/or a laying worker?

There was sort of a slight 'fermented' smell - not terribly offensive and I can't smell it on the combs that I brought in. 
Reading quickly as I post this I came across some threads about small hive beetles... 
I killed about 10-15 beetles over all the combs I brought in and found one larvae. (11 brood/empty combs, 2 honey collapsed combs, 5 half combs). 

I'm gutted - this hive was doing great. It was a swarm caught in a trap last spring, overwintered and was doing great this spring/summer. 

I brought in the combs with any amount of honey on them, though I'm not sure how to tell if it's fouled or not... Most combs have just the band of honey at the top of the comb as brood comb does. The ones with pollen I left out there, along with the already empty ones (total of 10).... I might even just put everything except the broken combs back out for the robbers.... 

Here is a link to the photos...


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## Anaphoria (Feb 18, 2012)

*Re: Robbing and Yellow Jackets? = Dead Hive - Now What?*

I went out to look with a flashlight after dark... totally empty except one little bee, a yellow jacket, and a large moth. Is it safe assume the bees were all robbers?

A few SHB were scurrying around. Took a better look at the debris on the bottom... Couldn't notice a high number of mites... mostly just dead bees, wasps and wax. Many of the bees looked eaten... Abdomens cracked open and the insides gone. 

I've also inspected the combs in more detail - several had quite a few tiny SHB larvae, and a few more larger ones so there is that. Mostly in the empty area between the bar and the honey.


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## Delta Bay (Dec 4, 2009)

*Re: Robbing and Yellow Jackets? = Dead Hive - Now What?*



> Is it safe assume the bees were all robbers?


Yes.

The best thing to do now is freeze the combs to kill SHB, wax moth and to preserve the pollen for a new start in the spring with a package/swarm.


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## Delta Bay (Dec 4, 2009)

*Re: Robbing and Yellow Jackets? = Dead Hive - Now What?*



> Is it safe assume the bees were all robbers?


Yes.

The best thing to do now is freeze the combs to kill SHB, wax moth and to preserve the pollen for a new start in the spring with a package/swarm.


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## txbeek (May 21, 2013)

*Re: Robbing and Yellow Jackets? = Dead Hive - Now What?*

I agree about freezing and saving the comb. After it's frozen for a couple days you can store it in a box inside to free freezer space. 

Duct tape works great to cover gaps and holes long enough for the bees to more permanently seal the gap to reduce robbing. 

I also take 1/4" hardware cloth, cover it with duct tape, then cut out one 1/4" square with a razor blade. I then staple that over the entrance to reduce the entrance to one bee till the robbing is under control.


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## Anaphoria (Feb 18, 2012)

I put as many of the combs in the freezer as would fit, I'll be rotating the others through and putting them in the basement for storage. 

I'm not sure why duct tape didn't occur to me. :0

Well on the bright side now I have the opportunity to fix the problems with the hive and have it ready for easier use next spring. Hopefully the universe will gift me another swarm.


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## Delta Bay (Dec 4, 2009)

Any pollen combs should be kept frozen until the day before use, otherwise it won't be useful to the bees. That's if you want to preserve it.


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