# Walnut or Butternut for hivebodies



## richh (Sep 14, 2013)

if it is free it will work perfect.... I make mine out of what ever free scraps I can I have pine, oak, maple,apple, and birch hive bodies all free:banana:


----------



## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

thanks rich. It will give me something other to do than the 1,000,000 other things I have to work on in the winter. G


----------



## richh (Sep 14, 2013)

biggraham610 said:


> thanks rich. It will give me something other to do than the 1,000,000 other things I have to work on in the winter. G


Making Beek stuff is more fun anyway!


----------



## richh (Sep 14, 2013)

One thing I would like to know is if cedar is ok.... I have a ton of it from when i cleared part of my property.... Will the bees mind the smell? Would it affect the honey?


----------



## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Sure will be pretty.


----------



## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

richh said:


> One thing I would like to know is if cedar is ok....


Of course. Thousands of bee colonies live in cedar. 

I think you could likely sell the cedar, and, get twice as much pine or poplar to build your hives, One down side of cedar is, you will need to predrill your nail holes. It can be somewhat brittle.


----------



## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

Michael Palmer said:


> Sure will be pretty.


Yeah, Im gonna try and find some of the best looking pieces I have and polish and clear coat em. It should be easy on the eyes. I will post some pics once I get going on it after the girls have gone to bed for winter. G


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

biggraham610 said:


> I was just wondering if anyone had any input on using Walnut or Butternut for hivebodies. I know the weight issues and all but I have an abundance of both that were left when we built my Fathers home in 2000. I was considering building a few boxes just for a showy hive to keep in my garden. Just wanted to know if there are any ill effects from either source of lumber. thanks. G:scratch:


Walnut hulls make a good dye for wool and I believe that the sawdust spread around plants will kill certain insects or maybe deter them from the area.

I would stay away from the Walnut and go w/ the Butternut.

What parts of your Father's house did you build w/ these two woods?


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

richh said:


> One thing I would like to know is if cedar is ok.... I have a ton of it from when i cleared part of my property.... Will the bees mind the smell? Would it affect the honey?


White or red? I wouldn't think that aromatic cedar would be good for beehives.


----------



## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

sqkcrk said:


> Walnut hulls make a good dye for wool and I believe that the sawdust spread around plants will kill certain insects or maybe deter them from the area.
> 
> I would stay away from the Walnut and go w/ the Butternut.
> 
> What parts of your Father's house did you build w/ these two woods?


Thanks Mark, just got the same report on the walnut from another blog. Thats why Im asking I suppose. Sucks, would have made a beautiful hive. What if its clearcoated heavy inside and out? I have plenty of time I guess to continue the research. 
As far as the house, when we bought the farm we surveyed and cut dead or dying walnut and butternuts off the place in preparation for building. We milled it and i had it kiln dried. Then Took it to a buddys cabinet shop and planed it all. We built 3 fireplace surrounds, mantles, and milled it for crown and chair rail. Still have a ton. I will send you pics of the fireplaces, they are spectacular. Have a good one. G


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Sounds nice. 

In Surrey County,VA, where Nat Turner's Rebellion ended in the early 1800s there is a house from that time period which has a King Post Truss, which is part of the roof system, made out of walnut timbers. Hewn and joined walnut timbers. I will never forget climbing up into that roof and seeing that. It's hard to imagine walnut trees that big and that tall, producing a timber 20 feet long.


----------



## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

sqkcrk said:


> Sounds nice.
> 
> In Surrey County,VA, where Nat Turner's Rebellion ended in the early 1800s there is a house from that time period which has a King Post Truss, which is part of the roof system, made out of walnut timbers. Hewn and joined walnut timbers. I will never forget climbing up into that roof and seeing that. It's hard to imagine walnut trees that big and that tall, producing a timber 20 feet long.


We still have some giants standing. We have a row of large ones but there is one in particular on a creek bottom that no 2 men I know of could reach around, and maybe 3. Turkeys roost in it regularly. G


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I always felt most at home in the woods of Virginia, more so than the North Country woods. The loblolly pines, white oaks and red oaks, tulip poplar, cypress, walnut, and beech. There is to me nothing like walking through a mixed oak and pine forest in VA. Picking out saw logs for timbers or boars. Finding those young white oak trees best suited for making into split oak baskets. Or larger to make into white oak barrels. Besides the people I worked with, that may be what I miss most about not living in VA anymore. It's not the same.


----------



## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

sqkcrk;1156397Surrey County said:


> Is that close to Surry County, VA ?


----------



## Bob Anderson (Jun 13, 2014)

I do a lot of woodturning - walnut bowls, peppermills, etc. A walnut hive would look fabulous, especially with some crotch wood! Walnut sawdust and shavings will, however, inhibit plant growth, and make cows and horses lame if you put it into their bedding. But these are bees and I don't know the effects on bees. Butternut honey sounds better to me.


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

AstroBee said:


> Is that close to Surry County, VA ?


Right next door, AstroBee. Is the Surry House still in business? Seems to my memory it was not very far off the Ferry. Is it Suffolk Co that has the PPP Festival? At Bacon's Castle? The Pork, Peanut, and Pine Festival? I went out on Hog Island one time to look for Eagles. What about Blackhead Signpost Road? Did they ever change the name?


----------



## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

Bob Anderson said:


> I do a lot of woodturning - walnut bowls, peppermills, etc. A walnut hive would look fabulous, especially with some crotch wood! Walnut sawdust and shavings will, however, inhibit plant growth, and make cows and horses lame if you put it into their bedding. But these are bees and I don't know the effects on bees. Butternut honey sounds better to me.



Did you ever work butternut? Equally impressive grain. White to caramel. G


----------



## Bob Anderson (Jun 13, 2014)

Graham, Nope, never used butternut. I harvest all my wood from fallen trees etc and haven't come across one around here. I'll keep looking. A set of salt and peppermills from butternut and black walnut would be pretty nice...


----------



## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

Bob Anderson said:


> Graham, Nope, never used butternut. I harvest all my wood from fallen trees etc and haven't come across one around here. I'll keep looking. A set of salt and peppermills from butternut and black walnut would be pretty nice...


Got mine the same way, I never cut a live hardwood. I will check my stock, dont think I have any butternut blocks, just boards, but if I come across one I will PM you. You would be welcome to it. G


----------



## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

I have a number of butternut trees around my house. The one directly in front is well past its expected age and blooms REAL late while dropping leaves REAL early (they're about done dropping now). I expect to have to harvest that one in the next few years. It's about 34" in diameter at the trunk and it's a beautiful tree. I hope to be able to get some longish stock out of it but around here, there's nowhere to bring it. Kinda wish I had one of those backyard mills to get it rough planked before it dried and I planed it. It would LOVE to make some stuff from my own butternut. I have no idea what the grain looks like but the name sure sounds good to me!


----------



## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

Ravenseye said:


> I have a number of butternut trees around my house. The one directly in front is well past its expected age and blooms REAL late while dropping leaves REAL early (they're about done dropping now). I expect to have to harvest that one in the next few years. It's about 34" in diameter at the trunk and it's a beautiful tree. I hope to be able to get some longish stock out of it but around here, there's nowhere to bring it. Kinda wish I had one of those backyard mills to get it rough planked before it dried and I planed it. It would LOVE to make some stuff from my own butternut. I have no idea what the grain looks like but the name sure sounds good to me!


You are going to love it. Imagine white walnut. We had a guy with a portable sawmill cut ours before we ricked it and eventually took it to the kiln. It is very beautiful. Shame about the blight. We planted some but they can hardly get going before they are stricken. We still have some standing here and there, but they are never sound top to bottom. I will send you some pics of finished butternut. G


----------



## canoemaker (Feb 19, 2011)

[QUOTEI would stay away from the Walnut and go w/ the Butternut.QUOTE]

Both Black Walnut and Butternut are in the same family and both contain juglone, a toxin to both plants and insects. Some woodworkers also react adversely to breathing the wood dust. Too bad, because it is such a beautiful wood. Try sassafras; it has a grain similar to butternut, but with more color and some iridescence.


----------



## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

canoemaker said:


> [QUOTEI would stay away from the Walnut and go w/ the Butternut.QUOTE]
> 
> Both Black Walnut and Butternut are in the same family and both contain juglone, a toxin to both plants and insects. Some woodworkers also react adversely to breathing the wood dust. Too bad, because it is such a beautiful wood. Try sassafras; it has a grain similar to butternut, but with more color and some iridescence.


So you believe it would be unwise to use either. Hmm. Lots of mixed reviews. Thanks CM


----------



## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

canoemaker said:


> [QUOTEI would stay away from the Walnut and go w/ the Butternut.QUOTE]
> 
> Both Black Walnut and Butternut are in the same family and both contain juglone, a toxin to both plants and insects. .


Bees will absolutely live in walnut trees. The tree that was the inspiration for my trapout system in the early 1990s was a walnut tree near a middle school playground and the owner did not want the walnut tree cut because it produced walnuts each year. 

I also bought all the equipment, from a bee keeper's widow, and it had a lot of both deep and shallow supers made from walnut, (butt joints) but, they worked for him.

cchoganjr


----------



## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

sqkcrk said:


> Right next door, AstroBee. Is the Surry House still in business? Seems to my memory it was not very far off the Ferry. Is it Suffolk Co that has the PPP Festival? At Bacon's Castle? The Pork, Peanut, and Pine Festival? I went out on Hog Island one time to look for Eagles. What about Blackhead Signpost Road? Did they ever change the name?



Yeah, the Surry House is still in business and down the road several miles from the ferry. The PPP is held at Chippokes Plantation State Park, which is a few miles from the heart of Surry. Nice park with interesting history.


----------



## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

Cleo C. Hogan Jr said:


> Bees will absolutely live in walnut trees. The tree that was the inspiration for my trapout system in the early 1990s was a walnut tree near a middle school playground and the owner did not want the walnut tree cut because it produced walnuts each year.
> 
> I also bought all the equipment, from a bee keeper's widow, and it had a lot of both deep and shallow supers made from walnut, (butt joints) but, they worked for him.
> 
> cchoganjr


Thanks Cleo. I have seen them for sale. I just wanted insight from people that had used them or heard of any negative effects. Thanks again. G


----------



## Bob Anderson (Jun 13, 2014)

I was wondering about the fact that butternut was essentially a walnut and may have the same toxin but I guess if bees live in butternut and walnut trees then they can probably do well in a walnut hive... If it is well dried the volatiles should not affect the honey.

Graham - if you find a couple of chunks of butternut that are from 3 to 4 inches square and 8 inches long with no serious splits I would be pleased to receive them and send you back a peppermill.

Ravenseye - same for you when your tree comes down. You should look around for a guy with a 'wood mizer'. That's a popular brand of portable bandsaw mill. They could come to you and saw the tree into planks. Ask at local woodworking tool stores for names - try a local Woodcraft or Rocklers store for example. There has to be somebody around there...


----------



## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

Bob Anderson said:


> I was wondering about the fact that butternut was essentially a walnut and may have the same toxin but I guess if bees live in butternut and walnut trees then they can probably do well in a walnut hive... If it is well dried the volatiles should not affect the honey.
> 
> Graham - if you find a couple of chunks of butternut that are from 3 to 4 inches square and 8 inches long with no serious splits I would be pleased to receive them and send you back a peppermill.
> 
> Ravenseye - same for you when your tree comes down. You should look around for a guy with a 'wood mizer'. That's a popular brand of portable bandsaw mill. They could come to you and saw the tree into planks. Ask at local woodworking tool stores for names - try a local Woodcraft or Rocklers store for example. There has to be somebody around there...


I will look when Im back up there Bob. Woodmizer is what the guy brought to our place. did a great job. G


----------



## Hops Brewster (Jun 17, 2014)

I vote walnut for the hive bodies and butternut for the supers and/or tops. :thumbsup: A coat of clear deck finish would set them off nice.


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

If I had walnut, I'd sell it and buy some pine... If I had cedar, I'd sell it and buy some pine, unless it's was only a small amount. Cedar works fine. Walnut would be worth too much and too heavy for me. I don't know about the poisonous qualities and bees (I never tried walnut) but I know it is poisonous to many insects, plants and mammals... when a stable got a load of walnut sawdust they got a lot of lame horses who were very sick...


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

One can always stain pine to look like walnut. Following Michael's line of thought.


----------



## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

Michael Bush said:


> If I had walnut, I'd sell it and buy some pine... If I had cedar, I'd sell it and buy some pine, unless it's was only a small amount. Cedar works fine. Walnut would be worth too much and too heavy for me. I don't know about the poisonous qualities and bees (I never tried walnut) but I know it is poisonous to many insects, plants and mammals... when a stable got a load of walnut sawdust they got a lot of lame horses who were very sick...


I am only entertaining this thought for a showy hive to keep on my back deck. Not as a practice. i have a ton of both woods hanging around and thought it would be a nice looking showpiece. G


----------



## D Semple (Jun 18, 2010)

sqkcrk said:


> Sounds nice.
> 
> In Surrey County,VA, where Nat Turner's Rebellion ended in the early 1800s there is a house from that time period which has a King Post Truss, which is part of the roof system, made out of walnut timbers. Hewn and joined walnut timbers. I will never forget climbing up into that roof and seeing that. It's hard to imagine walnut trees that big and that tall, producing a timber 20 feet long.


I built this walnut door salvaged from a 14' long 10" x 14" beam out of a Missouri Mule barn that was built in the 1860's. 

The beam was cut well out from the center of the tree and had no sap wood, like you Mark I can't imagine the size of the trees from back then that it must of come from. Counted 172 growth rings within the beam. 


















Don

P.S. Make furniture with the walnut


----------



## NickSloan (Feb 20, 2014)

fat bee man on you tube says that burning black walnut chips in your smoker kills mites. I have to test this some day. maybe building the hive out of this would ward off mites... maybe the bees will abscond... nothing ventured nothing gained


----------



## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

Woodworker here trying to be a beek. I would suggest doing a box joint and using the butternut for the sides and the walnut for the fronts. It would be awesome. 
Here is some chairs http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n599/6minz/Wood Work/DSCN0136_zps88a43982.jpg
And here are some hemlock boxes with a walnut band
http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n599/6minz/Wood Work/box1_zps1c776a76.jpg
just think how each of the ends would look.


----------



## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

minz said:


> Woodworker here trying to be a beek. I would suggest doing a box joint and using the butternut for the sides and the walnut for the fronts. It would be awesome.
> Here is some chairs http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n599/6minz/Wood Work/DSCN0136_zps88a43982.jpg
> And here are some hemlock boxes with a walnut band
> http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n599/6minz/Wood Work/box1_zps1c776a76.jpg
> just think how each of the ends would look.


Beautiful. I will probably figure enough for 6 med boxes, 3 of each then have someone I know with a woodworking shop make the box joints for me. Once I have the sides and fr/backs, I can check it out like you said, I hadnt thought of mixing the woods on a single box. Once I get the project moving I will post some pictures. Plumber/Farmer trying to bee a beek/woodworker..G.:lpf:


----------



## Matt903 (Apr 8, 2013)

sqkcrk said:


> White or red? I wouldn't think that aromatic cedar would be good for beehives.


There is a a red cedar in my town that has had bees in it for 15 years that I know of. I am not sure if it is the same hive, or swarms moving in over the years. Me and another beekeeper have a friendly competion going on. We both put out bait hives every year. So far I have caught three and he has got two. He won this year. The queens from this hive are my strongest and have not required any treatments. That being said, the smell of cedar has no effect on the bees in this tree. I will get some pics or video of the tree and post later.


----------



## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

Bob Anderson said:


> I was wondering about the fact that butternut was essentially a walnut and may have the same toxin but I guess if bees live in butternut and walnut trees then they can probably do well in a walnut hive... If it is well dried the volatiles should not affect the honey.
> 
> Graham - if you find a couple of chunks of butternut that are from 3 to 4 inches square and 8 inches long with no serious splits I would be pleased to receive them and send you back a peppermill.
> 
> Ravenseye - same for you when your tree comes down. You should look around for a guy with a 'wood mizer'. That's a popular brand of portable bandsaw mill. They could come to you and saw the tree into planks. Ask at local woodworking tool stores for names - try a local Woodcraft or Rocklers store for example. There has to be somebody around there...


Thanks Bob. I'm sure there's someone around. We have a real good lumberyard near us and they have a lot of reclaimed stuff. I just bought some pumpkin pine to repair an upstairs floor. I have no doubt that they would find someone local. For now, the tree stands and I won't take it down until I really have to.


----------

