# Small cell/regression question



## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

How does your brood comb look? 

If it's well drawn-out and not irregular your bees could be "small".


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## Arnie (Jan 30, 2014)

They draw that comb out beautifully. They seem to need a little encouragement to draw that particular foundation, but when they do, it is perfect.


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## AR Beekeeper (Sep 25, 2008)

What does the foundationless comb look like?


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## Arnie (Jan 30, 2014)

I don't have any foundationless.


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## jfmcree (Mar 10, 2014)

You can try measuring the size of the latest comb they've drawn to see what they are building. The comb size is a proportion of the bee size. They are "small" bees if they are making small cell comb. It is probably best to wait for the Spring to do this measurement. It isn't worth the risk of accidentally squishing your queen this time of year.

Jim.


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## AR Beekeeper (Sep 25, 2008)

Arnie, if you will put a frame without foundation in the brood nest area next spring the bees will draw the comb cell size either larger than the size they are on now, or the same size or smaller. If the cell size is 4.9mm or smaller the bees are "regressed." If you are not in a good flow when you put in the frame you should feed well.

For what it is worth, I had 20 colonies on small cell for three years and they were no healthier than the 20 I had on standard 5.2 Pierco plastic foundation. I don't believe the bees in the U. S. were ever enlarged. According to Grout the standard brood foundation size in the 1930s was 5.3mm which is probably the middle of the natural size range for worker cells.

Tom Seeley says the survivor bees in the Arnot Forest in N. Y. draw worker cells 5.35mm, my bees are on 5.25 Pierco and some have had no treatments since August 2005. I think a lot of beekeepers give credit to the cell size when it is other factors that lead to their success.

Keep on with what you are doing and have fun with your bees, but look with a critical eye and try to determine if it is the tender, loving care you are giving the small cell colonies that gives you success, or just the cell size the bees emerge from.


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## Dan the bee guy (Jun 18, 2015)

I put my packages on small cell wax they messed up the small cell some was good some was bad . Then I made nucs useing two frames of bees and caped brood the rest of the box was filled with SC foundation . The foundation was drawn out almost perfect . I even had them draw out perfect foundation less comb measured it at 5.0


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Once they have build the PF120s and raised a batch of brood on it, you have them regressed.


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## Arnie (Jan 30, 2014)

Thank you.


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## nolefan1985 (Mar 23, 2016)

I installed a nuc one week ago and tried to follow what i understood to be Michael Bush's advice on it: I put two frames of brood in the center, then foundationless frames on either side, then nuc frames, next foundationless, then a nuc frame, and on either end 4.9 plastic frames. They are drawing comb like crazy but have not touched the plastic frames. I took out a frame of foundationless that was just being started as I was so eager to measure it, but beautiful though it was, it measured 5.4. Do I just stay the course and continue on?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

When they run out of places to build their own comb they will draw the plastic.


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