# Warning to the wise



## garusher (May 28, 2012)

Funny you should mention this.
I was out checking mine too; I found the same issue and we have been getting a lot of rain.

G>_


----------



## Billboard (Dec 28, 2014)

How do you know if there's netar being stored? Is that capped honey? In my frames I see dark yellow spots and many comb and many comb with a liquid in them but nothing's capped. I am feeding tho 1:1 and bee pro patties.


----------



## dkofoed (Feb 25, 2014)

Billboard said:


> How do you know if there's netar being stored? Is that capped honey? In my frames I see dark yellow spots and many comb and many comb with a liquid in them but nothing's capped. I am feeding tho 1:1 and bee pro patties.


The uncapped liquid you're seeing is nectar (or in your case, probably sugar syrup).


----------



## Colobee (May 15, 2014)

Vance G said:


> ... if weather or anything had delayed my visit for even a few more days, I would have been greeted with nothing but wreckage instead of strong colonies ready to swarm or split.


It sounds like this storm missed you? We had that beautiful day Wednesday. Now there are reports of ~6-18" of snow, and 3-5 "non-foraging" days ahead. My feeder jars are ready - we may get a slight weather break tomorrow. I only have one "suspicious" hive - lagging behind the others.

"...do your bees have enough stores to weather a three day rain?" 

or rain/snow...?


----------



## Billboard (Dec 28, 2014)

Ok thanks, I thought honey but anyway it's food stores.


----------



## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Vance, do you know what the weight was when you closed them up in the fall? Mine only just started rearing brood a week ago from the look of one hive I checked. Look good for stores but they will drop more before anything starts to come in.


----------



## Tjsegla (Aug 3, 2013)

May be a dumb question but if there is lots of stored honey do you still need to feed syrup?


----------



## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Getting slammed here. Maples bloomed as usual. Bees went on a brooding bender. Then a freeze that appears to have taken out tulip poplar blooms and heaven knows what else. Then the monsoon struck. Stores are dwindling in the middle of April. Unheard of here. Many of my nucs have shutdown brooding entirely. I am feeding them just to keep 'em from starving. Sheesh!


----------



## Dave Burrup (Jul 22, 2008)

I found the same thing. Our hives are eating about a pound a day. We have lots of bees and brood. I weighed them this morning and shifted into high gear making syrup. Some were the lightest I have ever weighed. Another interesting point, two of the hives were killing and ejecting drone. That tells you how critical the feed was. We will go through them Sunday, and I suspect I will find cannibalized brood.


----------



## Billboard (Dec 28, 2014)

Why is this happening.


----------



## missybee (Sep 6, 2014)

This is our first spring with bees, dandelions just bloomed, peach tree just bloomed, red bud almost opened. 

We are only feeding the new package and the small nuc. If you are seeing cells with nectar in them do you need to feed? Yes the hives are light in stores, most do have 2-4 frames of capped honey left. A lot of the frames have nectar in them. I will put jars on tomorrow if need be. 
We had food on the large hives, they were ignoring it. So we removed it a week ago or so, the jars were staying full. 

Thanks for the help


----------



## woodsy (Mar 3, 2013)

Was just going to ask whether or not if pollen is coming in is nectar coming in also. Vance G seem to answer that question. Thanks. 
It is early here but pollen has been coming in for a few days. Did notice bees in top of hive still on the sugar brick and they are also taking a little sugar syrup. 
After loosing one colony in March due to lack of food I am determined not to lose my only remaining hive by feeding.


----------



## MTN-Bees (Jan 27, 2014)

I've been feeding pollen patties for about a month. I left sugar bricks in the hives. My bottom brood boxes still had a lot of honey. So I started rotating boxes when the dandelions popped. I Started feeding syrup last weekend.


----------



## UTvolshype (Nov 26, 2012)

*Re: Warning, feeding in Mid-April, very sad...*



beemandan said:


> Getting slammed here. Maples bloomed as usual. Bees went on a brooding bender. Then a freeze that appears to have taken out tulip poplar blooms and heaven knows what else. Then the monsoon struck. Stores are dwindling in the middle of April. Unheard of here. Many of my nucs have shutdown brooding entirely. I am feeding them just to keep 'em from starving. Sheesh!



Ditto here in East Tn but I don't think that the tulip poplar blooms were hurt too bad, likely setback 3 to 5 days. Biggest issue now is no sunshine so no nectar but lots of stuff blooming. The russian and carni queens just took the past two weeks off, the crazy italians not so much.


----------



## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Good thing you got to them before it is too late. Right now is the
critical moment to hold them or lose them. Where is your bee buddy when you're out?
It is time to invite a good neighbor to help.


----------



## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Vance G said:


> for goodness sake feed the bees if you have the least bit of doubt about their food stores.


Feed, feed, feed, yup, yup, yup... What goes through my mind is feeding causes starvation. It stimulates the raising of brood when if left along they would not do so. You can't blame the bees.


----------



## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Acebird said:


> What goes through my mind is feeding causes starvation.


:scratch: :s

What goes through *my *mind is '_lack of food_' causes starvation. 

[hr] [/hr]

Bees need _carbohydrates _as everyday fuel. For bees, carbohydrates means sugar or honey. If they don't have one or the other (or both), they starve. If you take all/most their honey in the fall, they will most likely starve without sugar.

Note that pollen is not a substitute for honey/sugar. Pollen is primarily consumed by young nurse bees preparing/raising brood. Those nurse bees need pollen to be able to produce the large amounts of royal jelly required to feed larva. Once those {former} nurse bees have graduated to other tasks, they consume very little pollen.

A good reference on bee nutrition: http://www.beeccdcap.uga.edu/documents/caparticle10.html

.


----------



## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> :scratch: :s
> 
> What goes through *my *mind is '_lack of food_' causes starvation.


"You can't blame the bees"


----------



## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

Acebird said:


> What goes through my mind is feeding causes starvation.


That's a novel thought...


----------



## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

>> "You can't blame the bees"


But you can blame _Acebird _...



Acebird said:


> I clearly did not leave my bees with enough honey. It was assumed that they were queenless and going to die anyway. The first part of winter was very mild and my plan was working but now winter is endless and I am sure my bees are toast.



:gh:


----------



## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Vance is quite right, assume nothing. A timely feeding can pay back a hundred fold. You don't know anything for sure until you check your hives. Because my son was more vigilant than I, we spent about 4 days feeding nucs a week ago many of which were on the verge of starvation because I assumed they had made enough to live off of but because the season continues to be about a week late such was not the case. Now, a week later, they have gone from looking dry and lethargic to having nice rims of honey with a generous shake of new nectar. Bees are livestock, just as you wouldn't let a herd of cattle die when the pasture dries up neither should you let your hives go hungry just because you feel they should be taking care of themselves.


----------



## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Vance G said:


> When I pulled frames, there was a few pounds of open syrup from last weeks feeding still in frames by the brood,


But Jim, he was feeding last week and how many weeks before that? When did they get hungry, before or after the colony was induced to raise brood?


----------



## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Acebird said:


> But Jim, he was feeding last week and how many weeks before that? When did they get hungry, before or after the colony was induced to raise brood?


The only thing that's relevant is the current level of feed in the hives. If they starve now you have not only lost a hive but also all the honey and feed costs that got them well into April. A feed costs roughly $2 a a good replacent nuc is going to run at least $100.


----------



## blamb61 (Apr 24, 2014)

I'm new with this being my 3rd season. My strategy has been to feed them until 3rd deep is full and then putting on supers. That way, I think I've got them prepped for winter 1st. Whatever they produce after 3 boxes are full is mine and no more (harvest last time early to mid Sept to let them finish winter preps). I don't get to harvest anything from spring flows this way but I have tons of stores left over at end of winter and I haven't worried about them starving or have to break into them to look.

What do you all think of this strategy? I would like to get to where I dont feed at all but dont know if I would harvest much if I did that.


----------



## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

crofter said:


> Vance, do you know what the weight was when you closed them up in the fall? Mine only just started rearing brood a week ago from the look of one hive I checked. Look good for stores but they will drop more before anything starts to come in.


Mine all weighed at least 125 the end of october and had five plus kilos of sugar on top. MEA CULPA here. Genetics makes quite a difference. I found that my Italian yard produced a lot more honey last year and went in to winter as heavy are the ones running out of groceries. My bees have bee getting patties since last week of Feb and syrup in baggies for three weeks. The other bees are from queens from TF breeders and most of those bees trend dark and are just now starting to build fast. When I cleaned bottom boards and counted brood yesterday, they had lots of stores left. That yard also always has at least one hive that stings ne on the cheeks repeatedly every time i bend over! Queens coming Monday, about four splits Tuesday out of that one which is first rate every way but temperment.


----------



## blamb61 (Apr 24, 2014)

Vance G said:


> Mine all weighed at least 125 the end of october and had five plus kilos of sugar on top. MEA CULPA here. Genetics makes quite a difference. I found that my Italian yard produced a lot more honey last year and went in to winter as heavy are the ones running out of groceries. My bees have bee getting patties since last week of Feb and syrup in baggies for three weeks. The other bees are from queens from TF breeders and most of those bees trend dark and are just now starting to build fast. When I cleaned bottom boards and counted brood yesterday, they had lots of stores left. That yard also always has at least one hive that stings ne on the cheeks repeatedly every time i bend over! Queens coming Monday, about four splits Tuesday out of that one which is first rate every way but temperment.


At 125, do you use 3 deeps?


----------



## Colino (May 28, 2013)

Acebird said:


> Feed, feed, feed, yup, yup, yup... What goes through my mind is feeding causes starvation. It stimulates the raising of brood when if left along they would not do so. You can't blame the bees.


----------



## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

125 in two deeps or three mediums. I keep thinking three deeps for wintering but that is a lot more equipment and feed tied up. Besides a lot smarter guy than I ,Roland, says one deep is enough. It does not matter what the static section says.


blamb61 said:


> At 125, do you use 3 deeps?


----------



## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

Colimo you said you were a socialist but you didn't say you were an intellectual too! That is the most inciteful post I have ever seen on this forum!


Colino said:


> View attachment 17352


----------



## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Diffferent bees can change the food situation. I went in at 130 lbs and two of the hives I checked the last couple of days are at 100 lbs and two at 90. The lighter ones look like they might have started brooding a bit earlier. Sometimes it is warm enough to get something from the red maples but it is not dependable here. They could get right skinny waiting a month yet for dandelions!

I think the idea behind not ever feeding is that it is supposed to sort out the stupid bees! It helps too if you have a crystal ball that will tell you in September exactly what kind of weather you will have the following March, April, May.


----------



## Colino (May 28, 2013)

Vance G said:


> Colimo you said you were a socialist but you didn't say you were an intellectual too! That is the most inciteful post I have ever seen on this forum!


Thanks Vance, it's all that free secondary education I received.


----------



## warpork (Apr 24, 2012)

Just checked all of mine in the Atlanta area today and almost all were about dry, and one was completely dry and had gone so far as to eat all the eggs and open brood in the hive. They were evicting drones and there was a large pile of dead bees on the bottom board, again almost all drones. Got the feed on them now and have transferred a frame of open brood just in case as I didn't see the queen. Still one of the strongest hives in terms of total bees. Amazing how fast the hives that have brooded up can go through stores when it's been raining non-stop for most of the last week!


----------



## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

jim lyon said:


> The only thing that's relevant is the current level of feed in the hives.


This may come as a shock to you but I agree 100% for the present situation. But the topic is pointing fingers and the person pointing the finger hasn't a clue that he is at fault.


----------



## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

crofter said:


> It helps too if you have a crystal ball that will tell you in September exactly what kind of weather you will have the following March, April, May.


Bees have survived for how many million of years? I think they have the crystal ball and we humans can't figure it out.


----------



## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

But I haven't had to buy bees except queens for genetics for a long time,



Acebird said:


> This may come as a shock to you but I agree 100% for the present situation. But the topic is pointing fingers and the person pointing the finger hasn't a clue that he is at fault.


----------



## crofter (May 5, 2011)

VanceG; how can you go on living with such a scathing rebuke from the bird?


----------



## Colino (May 28, 2013)

crofter said:


> VanceG; how can you go on living with such a scathing rebuke from the bird?


And here come the anger issues...


----------



## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Acebird said:


> But the topic is pointing fingers


I ain't gonna reread this whole thing but I was sure the topic was feeding bees so they don't starve. As usual...I missed the whole point.


----------



## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

crofter said:


> VanceG; how can you go on living with such a scathing rebuke from the bird?


I will consult my heart doctor immediately. My pace maker battery is getting very low.


----------



## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

It really doesn't get low it works until it doesn't. It is atomic. So when it gets low you are dead.


----------



## McBee7 (Dec 25, 2013)

Great observation Vance, I've noticed similar consumption of stores here also, and i'm made aware of some of the variables involved,,,,,Such as genetics of the bees, meaning- how soon they started to brood up (naturally).....Cluster size....maybe queen condition or overwintering viability...There are so many things that make each hive different, I'm amazed as I look into each one. Some of the 3 deep 5/5/5 nucs that weighed 130 plus # going into winter either had only a few frames of honey left today if they brooded early,, and some of them had a whole box of honey for me to redistribute if they were a little behind the curve, weither due to genetics saying its too early, or maybe a faltering queen......I did make some splits from some of the stronger hives with boughten queens and errored on the safe side as far as the inbox food supply is concerned...I feel like a drunken sailor, sometimes, in the bee yard when I find what I didn't expect,,,,and try to act appropiatly, anyway thanks for the heads up, and we are about to get some of that mixed bag of weather from out west.....3 days of rain are predicted  I think I recheck those store levels again tomarrow.,,

==McBee7==


----------



## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Blamb61 - Three deeps of feed will give you three deeps of funny honey whne they move it.


Vance is right, be diligent in minding the stores level. With a single deep, we are out in the spring to inspect as soon as the snow mostly melts. There seems to be a trend of increased feed usage in the winter, but not in all hives. I have to wonder if it a symptom of sub-lethal poisoning from off label use of alfalfa insecticides, such as Lorsban and Warrior. The pattern seems to be more stores in the stronger yards, and less sstores in the weaker yards. It is as if in the fall the queens used some of the stores to make replacement bees for those lost.

Acebird, yes stimulative feeding does just that, but more bees in a hive is a good thing. Try it some time.

Crazy Roland


----------



## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

We performed a cutout yesterday from an old farm house yesterday. The bees maybe had 3lbs of honey left.
Made for a less sticky cutout though.


----------



## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Roland said:


> but more bees in a hive is a good thing. Try it some time.


Why would I want to scramble in panic mode when I don't have to?


----------



## maudbid (Jul 21, 2014)

Acebird said:


> It really doesn't get low it works until it doesn't. It is atomic. So when it gets low you are dead.


Someone obviously did not sleep at a Holiday Inn. :gh:


----------



## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

_Roland_, its no big deal to Ace if his bees don't thrive. He will just get his wife to buy him some more ....



Acebird said:


> My wife pays for everything.


... that was from a thread Ace started titled "_Beekeeping is a very cheap hobby_" :lpf:


:gh:


----------



## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

More sour grapes.


----------



## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

I'd love to hear Acebird's explanation of that pacemaker "_atomic battery_"! 


:ws:

... see post #41, top of this page ...


----------



## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Ace - more bees means more honey. 

Crazy Roland


----------



## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Roland said:


> Ace - more bees means more honey.
> 
> Crazy Roland


Yes, more hives means more honey too. More hives where you don't have to do anything makes more sense to me.


----------



## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

Acebird said:


> hives where you don't have to do anything makes more sense to me.


Is there a market for Small Hive Beetles?


----------



## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

That must be why Acebird likes the Flow Hive so much. 



Acebird said:


> More hives where [HIGHLIGHT]you don't have to do anything makes more sense to me.[/HIGHLIGHT]


:lpf:


... :s who can make sense out of pacemakers with "_atomic batteries_" :scratch:


----------



## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> :lpf:



"Acebird " practicing not doing anything since 2011....


----------



## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Practice free practitioner.


----------



## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

BeeCurious said:


> Is there a market for Small Hive Beetles?


This kind of a post makes me wonder about your intelligence. The small hive beetles were introduced to the hives by me. It was the act of doing something that killed the hives but you seem to feel it was non-intervention that did it. How can your mind be so screwed up?


----------



## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

Acebird,

Besides being the third highest poster on the forum, you are also Beesource's *most glittering jewel of colossal ignorance*.


----------



## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Acebird said:


> How can your mind be so screwed up?


Let me count the ways ....

... Aqueous Hurricane Hive Holddown[SUP]®[/SUP]™ 
... How about a trip wire triggering a gun that shoots radio active ink?
... Insulation totally looses it's R value when it gets wet
... It may not be apparent by my actions but trust me I am a good listener.
... 
...


:gh:


----------



## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

regardlees of how the beetles got into the hive the act of doing nothing after they were in your weak hive is what killed them.
how can you be so blind?
Vance's "Warning to the wise" regarding feeding is a legitimate one, timely and probably appreciated by many, yet you'll debate it. 
In fact you'll debate every topic given the chance. Contrary to your claim, you are not a good listener.
All this makes me wonder about your intelligence.



Acebird said:


> This kind of a post makes me wonder about your intelligence. The small hive beetles were introduced to the hives by me. It was the act of doing something that killed the hives but you seem to feel it was non-intervention that did it. How can your mind be so screwed up?


----------



## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

clyderoad said:


> regardlees of how the beetles got into the hive the act of doing nothing after they were in your weak hive is what killed them.
> how can you be so blind?


How can you say something that isn't true? There was nothing weak about the hives. They were going gang busters which is why I put the boxes on. My mistake for thinking the infestation was wax moth.


----------



## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

Acebird said:


> How can you say something that isn't true? There was nothing weak about the hives. They were going gang busters which is why I put the boxes on. My mistake for thinking the infestation was wax moth.


"This kind of post makes me wonder about your intelligence "

Okay, let me ask.... Why would you knowingly place boxes full of wax moths on top of a colony?


By the way, we have seen the photos of all of your booming, gangbuster hives. I don't recall a single photo showing bees pouring out of a box.


----------



## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

BeeCurious said:


> Okay, let me ask.... Why would you knowingly place boxes full of wax moths on top of a colony?


You can go back to the original post. You commented several times.
The boxes were not full. All the larvae was knocked out and I was led to believe a strong hive would clean it up. Trust me it won't happen again.

I cannot take pictures of a hive when I first remove the boxes. In most cases the weather is cool either spring or fall. Fifteen minutes after you remove a box in cool weather the bees go down between the frames and block off the draft so I don't have pictures of the top of the frames covered in bees. That doesn't mean it isn't happening.


----------



## Dave Burrup (Jul 22, 2008)

Acebird how many hives have you had since 2011? How many times have they died out, or how many times have you put new bees in those hives?


----------



## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

Acebird said:


> What goes through my mind is .......


----------



## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Dave Burrup said:


> Acebird how many hives have you had since 2011? How many times have they died out, or how many times have you put new bees in those hives?


2011 was our first nuc. We were brain washed into thinking bees have to be fed and I left a hive top feeder on that hive through winter and the moisture rained down on them and killed them. I put another nuc in the same equipment and no feed with a top vent and the hive made it through the next winter. From there I split blindly by the box to increase to 3 hives, again no feed. The following year all hives made it (3) so I split by the box to prevent swarming and ended up with 5 hives I couldn't take care of so I gave one away. The one I gave away died out and that is where I got the boxes of hive beetles. I put those boxes on three of my hives and it killed two of them. I was told last fall that my remaining hive was queenless and would die also so I took the honey from it and left it very light on stores and it made through by some miracle. Because I expected to be without bees this year I bought a package through our club and hopefully I will be around when it comes to put in my equipment. If I had known the "queenless" hive was going to make it I wouldn't have bought the package. I would just split again. (by the box of course)


----------



## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

Acebird said:


> 2We were brain washed into thinking bees have to be fed and I left a hive top feeder on that hive through winter and the moisture rained down on them and killed them.


You were brainwashed into leaving a feeder on all winter long? By whom? What you experienced was operator error and now you are telling people not to feed because you screwed it up.


----------



## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Yes it was operator error. When you join a club as a newbie you will get hounded by the masses to feed, feed, feed and treat, treat, treat. I tell hobbyist that these practices have consequences that don't go as planned when you don't have experience. I fully understand the need for a commercial operation to do this. I don't think it is required for a hobbyist but yet it is preached that it is. So I will preach that it isn't.


----------



## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

Acebird said:


> Yes it was operator error. When you join a club as a newbie you will get hounded by the masses to feed, feed, feed and treat, treat, treat.


But they didn't tell you to leave your feeder on all Winter, leave your feeder on all Winter, leave your feeder on all Winter, leave your feeder on all Winter, leave your feeder on all Winter. 

It wasn't feeding that killed your hive, your neglect did.


----------



## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

Life is a continuing lesson in developing judgement. It is considered sexy to tickle things with a feather occasionally. But there is always that guy who seems to feel the need to use the whole CHICKEN! Judgement lad, Judgement!


----------



## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Nabber86 said:


> It wasn't feeding that killed your hive, your neglect did.


Not neglect but ignorance of what I was doing. It was the pressure to feed from most experienced beeks, to feed no matter what, added to the fact that a beginner kit comes with a feeder, added to the fact that is was said that the warmth of the hive will keep the syrup from freezing. I learned real quick that the bees don't heat the hive, they keep the cluster warm. I just want to keep other newbies from leaning the hard way.


----------



## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Acebird said:


> 2011 was our first nuc.


:scratch: :s Thats odd.

In this March 2011 post you say that you are in your second year and previously had a hive that died ...



Acebird said:


> I am starting into my second year (second try) so I would say I am definitely a newbie. I like to voice my opinions and hope you will all accept them as opinions and please correct me when I am wrong. That's how I learn. Some say the hard way.
> 
> I have read and understand the rules. I am not looking to fight with anyone but I ask allot of questions so I can determine if your ideas could change my way of thinking. I hope no one takes offence for anything I say, especially if I don't say it right. My expertise is technical in nature whereas my weakness is in communication.
> 
> Bees write their own textbooks and tend to change the rules over time.


Ace seems to be having difficulty keeping track of when/how many hives he killed. :kn::lpf:



By the way, that post of Ace's directly above is the _very first Acebird post_ to Beesource.  I love this part ... 


> [HIGHLIGHT]My expertise is technical in nature[/HIGHLIGHT] whereas my weakness is in communication.


:bus:


(click the blue arrow in the quote box to see the original post/thread)


----------



## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> Ace seems to be having difficulty keeping track of when/how many hives he killed. :kn::lpf:


Yes it is easy for me to lose track of time so it is even longer than I though that I haven't bought bees.:thumbsup:


----------



## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

Congratulations Acebird ! 

You will soon be posting your 11,000th post! Your imaginary mentor will be so proud! 

But, you could do otherwise...


----------



## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

>> Yes it is easy for me to lose track of time so it is even longer than I though that I haven't bought bees.


So is there _anything _you post that can be expected to be _accurate_? :kn:


----------



## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

Acebird said:


> Not neglect but ignorance of what I was doing. It was the pressure to feed from most experienced beeks, to feed no matter what, added to the fact that a beginner kit comes with a feeder, ....


That is as absurd as saying that you were pressured to do hive inspections and then leaving the cover off all winter because they didn't tell you to put the cover back on after inspecting. Thus, you now tell other newbies not do hive inspections because this is how you killed your bees. Or telling people not to use smoke because you caught your hair on fire. It's not inanimate objects like feed, hive tops, or the smokers that are the problem, it is your utter stupidity that is the problem. 

Ignorance such as leaving a feeder on all winter is somewhat understandable. _Drawing a conclusion_ that feeding caused your hive to die, or as in my analogy leaving the top off, is beyond idiotic.


----------



## D Coates (Jan 6, 2006)

All this from Vance G noting that his hives were light in honey stores and trying to warn others. By the way, thanks Vance.

We need to set up Acebird and someone equally obtuse, ignorant, illogical, self-righteous and never wrong on opposite sides of an issue. I can think of a few but I'm no namedropper. Short of that, is there a code writer on here that could create a program that could act like an internet mirror? It would be like watching a bird (no pun intended) beating itself up into a mirror for hours on end. Being a perpetual motion machine it could power Beesource into perpetuity. Post counts and thus self importance could continue to increase well past 11K (yet... only one hive), the discussion would be sequestered in an danger area you enter at your own risk, and Beesouce sell the surplus energy back to the grid.

The only downside I see is Radar Sidetrack might miss pulling up the hilarious glittering jewels of past stupid quotes. However, with that much brainpower freed up I'd bet he could probably cure cancer by Tuesday.


----------



## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

here we go again putting words in my mouth. I do not tell newbies not to do hive inspections I tell them not to go overboard. I do not tell anyone not to use a smoker. I use a smoker. I do not leave the cover off my hives. Am I ignorant, sure, are there many newbies that aren't? Do you think I am the only one who left a feeder on through the winter? Is it something that you would never expect a newbie to do?

I tell people you don't have to feed. I don't say you can't feed. There is a difference.


----------



## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

If bookmarks could cure cancer, we'd be all set! :lpf:



... don't worry, we could always have 'reruns' if Ace quit posting. The major TV networks do that, BS TV certainly could too.


----------



## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Kinda the same here even though we are far far apart. The unusually heavy maple flow made it look like there was going to be so much early nectar that swarming would be awful, but 2+ weeks of cool wet weather has made it so that some hives are pretty light. There are enough foraging opportunities between rains that I'm not really worried, but it hasn't shaped up like it looked earlier.

A normal unpredictable spring is what it is.

edit - I posted this comment based on the OP, but after reading the thread I notice that I has kinda gone off topic. I read the last page of comments first and was about to post something like "why don't yall give Brian a break?" then I read from the beginning and I'm kind of amazed.

I have a question for Acebird - do you enjoy this? I know I wouldn't, but seriously I'm thinking that you must because you really stoke it almost continuously. If you do enjoy it then by all means carry on. If you don't then how do you stand all the piling on? Maybe I perceive how all this comes off differently than you do.


----------



## blamb61 (Apr 24, 2014)

Vance G said:


> 125 in two deeps or three mediums. I keep thinking three deeps for wintering but that is a lot more equipment and feed tied up. Besides a lot smarter guy than I ,Roland, says one deep is enough. It does not matter what the static section says.


I was writing from the perspective of a hobbiest witb only a few hives. Its feasable for me to do three deeps so I will since I think it helps but I can see that it probably isn't feasable or cost effective with a lot of hives.


----------



## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

We start each of our packages out with 3 gallons of feed. Bees have been in the hives for a month now, and now they are taking 1-2 gallon a week right now. Nucs are using 1/2-1 a gallon a week. Feed is cheap compared to bees, so feed, feed, and more feed. 

Die bees don't make honey.inch:


----------



## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

I just split 2 of my double story 8 frame hives that had an easy 80# of honey on them 3 weeks ago. Both hives had 12 full frames of brood and 4 frames of honey left. I would have caught it but the newer beekeepers might not have. Anyone who can take heed from someone with a bit of experience should definitely benefit from this post. Well, most of them... 

Even my splits can be split 

BTW I dye my 2:1 red and my 1:1 green. It's interesting to see how it migrates throughout the hive.


----------



## Adam Foster Collins (Nov 4, 2009)

Vance, your OP points to one of the hardest lessons I've had to learn so far. 

Two springs ago, I had a wonderful colony that I had caught the previous spring in a swarm trap - huge colony that built up faster than anything I had seen and came through the winter with flying colors. In the spring it still had honey and a huge cluster of bees. 

And when it got warm enough to fly, I stupidly assumed they were all set.

With a couple of weeks, they were dead. Starved right out. I couldn't believe it. They consumed everything they had and starved in warm spring weather.

I just couldn't imagine that they could do that so fast in warm weather.

Still annoys me that I lost that colony...

Adam


----------



## Cyan (Jan 27, 2015)

For what it's worth:

I made sure that when I hived my bees Saturday, I provided them with syrup and pollen patties. I noticed some drones flying about- first time I think I have ever seen them, but no big deal. I came back Sunday to collect the empty packages that I left laying by the hives and noticed several dead drones on the ground and on top of the hives. Bees were bringing in pollen though and all seemed well. 

But after reading through this post it and comparing it with what I see in the fields and forests recently- there isn't a lot out there in terms of nectar just yet- at least not where I keep my bees. As a matter of fact, last year at about this time we has so many dandelions in the yard and this year we have very few. We do have an explosion of wild violets though and many cherry and pear trees in bloom as compared to last year. Perhaps it's a result of the rougher winters? Idk. But it seems to me (even the new guy) that keeping them on syrup for a longer than expected period might be the thing this year.


----------



## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Vance, time to sound the alarm again. Looks like the nation's mid section is headed for a week of chilly weather, just after the queen laid up 4 frames of hungry eggs/larvae.

CRazy Roland


----------



## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

I feed the bees. They can't be trained to digest the lid. The breed is not improved by starving great colonies that built up big JUST too early. Where I live bees would not without mankind. Nearly eight months between nectar flows. Just too long, so not feeding is an expensive and stupid charade.



Adam Foster Collins said:


> Vance, your OP points to one of the hardest lessons I've had to learn so far.
> 
> Two springs ago, I had a wonderful colony that I had caught the previous spring in a swarm trap - huge colony that built up faster than anything I had seen and came through the winter with flying colors. In the spring it still had honey and a huge cluster of bees.
> 
> ...


----------



## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Adam Foster Collins said:


> In the spring it still had honey and a huge cluster of bees.
> 
> And when it got warm enough to fly, I stupidly assumed they were all set.


I thought I'd learned that lesson and hadn't lost a colony to starvation in several years... but then lost a monster colony this spring. I thought they were good...building up to beat the band...maples blooming...good as gold. Next time I visited the yard....tens of thousands of dead bees piled up on the bottom board. It still pains me.


----------



## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

David LaFerney said:


> If you don't then how do you stand all the piling on?


I consider the source. It comes from the same high school Harries who all their lives picked on people and make jokes. They are groupies. David, do you pile it on? Do you cherry pick quotes totally unrelated to the topics, twist words or meanings of phrases. There is your answer, I have respect for you. In another post I just read that you disagreed with Jim Lyon but you respect him. I do too. Does he disagree, yes. But he never piles it on. You have to weed out the high school Harries in your life and then the piling on won't mean anything to you.


----------



## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

ace; I've never seen a better example of some people being their own worst enemy.


----------



## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Here is how Acebird "respects" _Jim Lyon_ ...



Acebird said:


> Well Jim you are talking about scale. If your father handed you a thriving business you can just keep the flywheel rolling pretty easy. If you had to start from scratch then you pretty much started as chief cook and bottle washer with a broom handle stuck up your butt to sweep the floors. Not to belittle your ability but money breads money. It is a lot harder when you come from the geto.


Note that Jim's family has been in the bee business for several generations.



(click the blue arrow in the quote box to see the original post/thread in context)


----------



## D Coates (Jan 6, 2006)

David LaFerney said:


> edit - I posted this comment based on the OP, but after reading the thread I notice that I has kinda gone off topic. I read the last page of comments first and was about to post something like "why don't yall give Brian a break?" then I read from the beginning and I'm kind of amazed.
> 
> I have a question for Acebird - do you enjoy this? I know I wouldn't, but seriously I'm thinking that you must because you really stoke it almost continuously. If you do enjoy it then by all means carry on. If you don't then how do you stand all the piling on? Maybe I perceive how all this comes off differently than you do.


To have 1 hive but 11K posts in 4 years? Something is clearly missing. I ran across Mr. Bird on another beekeeping website where he eventually left because he'd earned enough enemies with his posts. Here there's a larger audience and more lenient moderators but he's rubbed even more folks wrong. I tried to politely correct him a few times waaaay back then I rudely learned claims of "please correct me if I'm wrong" are laughable. I've got those posts blocked but they comes across when others quote him. Life is too short for folks like this and this site would be better without them. I'm honestly amazed by the foot in mouth beekeeping ignorance as well as poor interpersonal skills that are continually displayed in those posts.

Don't take my word for it, simply watch his posts and make the decision yourself.


----------



## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

Roland said:


> Vance, time to sound the alarm again. Looks like the nation's mid section is headed for a week of chilly weather, just after the queen laid up 4 frames of hungry eggs/larvae.
> 
> CRazy Roland


I think those capable of listening have. I just talk too much.


----------



## IAmTheWaterbug (Jun 4, 2014)

Vance G said:


> Please be paying attention! Lift those hives to check weight and for goodness sake feed the bees if you have the least bit of doubt about their food stores. Just because you have pollen coming in does not mean your bees are gathering nectar at all. My bees will not be self supporting for a couple weeks yet. Even if your nectar flow has started, do your bees have enough stores to weather a three day rain?


Thanks! I just put my feeder back on. I'd taken it off because I was thinking, "It's spring," but when I recall the state of the hive on Sunday, it was definitely light on stores.


----------



## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Vance - You mean that those with their mouth open do not hear as well as those with their mouth shut?

Crazy Roland


----------



## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Vance - You mean that those with their mouth open do not hear as well as those with their mouth shut?

Crazy Roland


----------



## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

I resemble that remark Mr Roland! Today while looking for my hive tool, smoker, and various and sundry spare parts I reflected on how I might have benefited from proper OB training in my youth. I am probably pretty hopeless now.



Roland said:


> Vance - You mean that those with their mouth open do not hear as well as those with their mouth shut?
> 
> Crazy Roland


----------

