# Let's talk Ross Rounds



## nurseric (Sep 13, 2008)

I have aquired a few supers with ross round frames. Not sure if I want to get into using ross rounds. First question. Is it worth it? Is it profitable? What is the initial expense of getting started with ross rounds? I would need the rings, top and bottom covers, Springs ?, foundation and labels... I will watch for your comments. Thanks, Ric


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## mike haney (Feb 9, 2007)

give those frames away,use regular frames, and produce "cut comb honey" you'll get more honey and they are a LOT less likely to swarm. about the only way they use ross rounds is if they have no alternative. its more likely they will backfill the brood nest and swarm. good luck,mike


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## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

If you are a beginner I wouldn't recommend them. After you have some experience managing the bees Ross Round are a great time and mess saver. Harvesting and packaging the sections is very easy. If there is not a good flow and strong population you will end up with a bunch of unfinished sections. The shookswarm method with a shallow super for the brood nest at the start of a strong honey flow can make you lots of nice finished sections. 4 boxes of 32 sections @ $6.00 ea is $768.00-labels and covers. Good profit for a short period of time. 4 boxes of unfinished sections is heartbreaking.


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## Skinner Apiaries (Sep 1, 2009)

Hint. Sling honey and feed it back to them.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

What are the opinions on using or not using excluders under Rounds?


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## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

I use them under RR but have never tried it without.


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## bennybee (Jul 10, 2008)

A little off the subject but a commercial beek I know ask me too rip down his end bars in his cut comb supers so he could get 11 frames in the supers because with 10 the sections got too fat and would not fit in the box without smashing it. I cut 1/32" off each side, a little dangerous but it worked great for him. I make my own frames so I just plane another 1/16" off of the stock, witch is really the way to do it rather than cutting individual end bars.:thumbsup:


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>What are the opinions on using or not using excluders under Rounds? 

Last I talked to Lloyd Spears he said he did NOT use an excluder.


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## honeyman46408 (Feb 14, 2003)

I have always been told that the RRs act as a queen excluder *but* as nost of us know the bees don`t always follow the rules, I have had some droan brood in RRs but not many sooooooo thats my 2¢ :scratch:


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## bennybee (Jul 10, 2008)

my experience with rr is not to use an excluder. You might have some brood but as a rule the queen does not like to lay in them. I think you can lose a lot more honey by using an excluder than tossing out a few rounds


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

Skinner Apiaries said:


> Hint. Sling honey and feed it back to them.


I tried that once and it did not work,
Ernie


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## kbfarms (Jan 28, 2010)

I've used RR without any problems for the past six years, but then again maybe I didn't know any better  I may have 3 or 4 rounds that don't get capped or don't look nice, but I like them well enough and usually sell them for $4-5 each. The ones that don't look nice, I just cut out and put in a jar with honey.

Then again, I don't practice reversal in the spring. I usually stack 3-4 supers on early spring (with the Ross being first or 2nd). I may have one foundation above the RR, and always put drawn comb on the top super or above the RR. 

There is a vast amount of information and techniques here that I have never used (and wondered if I should have......., I guess you just need to try it and see if works for you.


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## Barry Tolson (May 26, 2004)

Nurseric, My advise is to get yourself a copy of one of Richard Taylors comb honey books. Read up on it and see if it intrigues you then. That's what I did and had have had really good results employing some of Mr. Taylors methods. Even if you decide to try cut-comb, Taylors books are an excellent read and can be quite beneficial.
The Ross Round parts will cost you some up front, but I have personally found the sale of rounds to be profitable...and the production enjoyable. I like buying the parts from dealers who sells them onesy-twosy. They cost a little more, but sometime I don't need/want big lots of lids or rings.


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

So to add a new twist on this thread. Dadant sells Bee-O-Pac https://www.dadant.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=745

Mann lake sells HOGG HALF COMB HONEY http://www.mannlakeltd.com/ProductDetail.asp?idproduct=76&idCategory=

So question is what is the best way to go.? Rounds or Squares?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

The advantage to the Bee-O-Pac is they don't take any special equipment (go in standard Medium supers) and they are a nice size to sell as they are smaller than a Ross Round. That's not all good or bad, but it is a nice thing to sell.

The disadvantage to the Bee-O-Pac is that they are flimsy and half comb (not two sides to the comb). The half comb means you can't cut a chunk of comb honey out, rather you scrape it off of the bottom of the container when you eat it.

The Ross Rounds are filled better than sqaure sections of any kind.

The Hogg Half comb are similar to the Bee-O-Pac but with more investment in equipment. It's a half comb again, meaning the bottom of the box is the mid rib.

I prefer to just do cut comb. My next choice would be a toss up between Ross Rounds and Bee-O-Pac, just because of the investement to buy the Ross Round supers etc.

I have a plan for comb honey that doesn't require cutting, but haven't had the time to test it.


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## Grant (Jun 12, 2004)

I like Ross Rounds. My bees adapt to Ross Rounds pretty well, but producing comb honey in any cassette box is an art--maybe not something for beginners. Interestingly, Taylor notes in his books that he thought beginners should produce comb honey because there is no expensive extractor to buy.

The real question is not what kind of cassette to use in your hive (Bee-o-pac, Ross Round, Hogg, Kelley, etc.) but what container do your customers prefer?

In 90% of my comb honey sales, my customers prefer a couple of slabs of cut comb honey in wide-mouth pint jar surrounded with honey.

This comb honey is produced by using shallow frames with thin surplus foundation. No specialized equipment to buy.

Grant
Jackson, MO


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## HVH (Feb 20, 2008)

I've been running RR and BOP's for several years and have found that these supers need to go on massive colonies just before a major flow. In my experience, a two queen colony with supers sandwiched between excluders, works very well. Last year every RR and most BOP's were completely filled to the last cell. If the colony is arranged like the Demaree method or Snelgrove's method a few weeks before the flow, with the addition of the second queen upstairs, then the colony will already be in shape for comb production. I agree that Taylor's books are worth the read and so are Eugene Killion's. Taylor had several methods of interest including Shook Swarming (which works very well). Killion ran single deeps with adapters and a modified comb box. Many approaches work with the goal of having a very strong colony crowded under comb boxes. Also the ideal situation for swarming.


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## Grant (Jun 12, 2004)

HVH said:


> Also the ideal situation for swarming.


Amen! If you just crowd the colony into a "cut down" configuration, you're begging to trigger a swarm.

However, this is why Killion removes the queen, then goes back and cuts out queen cells (which to me is a lot of extra work if you run lots of colonies). Then once the colony is settled, introduces a new queen. According to Killion, the colony makes room for the new queen by rushing nectar out of the brood area and up into the comb super. Once this process is started, you continue to bottom super new comb supers.

John Hogg has a fantastic plan on taking out the queen, thereby arresting the colony's ability to swarm. The colony has to raise emergency cells and the brood break kicks the colony into nectar gathering. As the colony is cut down, crowded into one brood box, no queen to lead a swarm out, the results are a sudden obsession with drawing out the foundation in the comb super.

Certainly there are different ways to do it. I owe a great deal of admiration to John Hogg and his Juniper Hill method. It works for me.

Grant
Jackson, MO


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## HVH (Feb 20, 2008)

Good post Grant. I will have to read Killion's book again.


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## Dubhe (Jul 19, 2007)

For those of you who dispense with the RRs and produce your own "cut comb honey," how do you package it?


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## Dubhe (Jul 19, 2007)

Dubhe said:


> For those of you who dispense with the RRs and produce your own "cut comb honey," how do you package it?


Bueller, Bueller............


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## paulaellen70 (Jul 6, 2017)

I picked up a RR kit at a yard sale super cheap. I was thinking of this plan to get the bees to use it: I have one colony that has some desirable qualities so I want to make splits from it. I was thinking of putting the RR super on top of the two deep boxes. I use follower boards in my deeps, so I can keep the brood nest crowded. Currently there are 6 frames in each. I won't add additional frames as the nectar flow starts and hopefully this crowding will encourage them to build swarm cells and draw comb in the RR super at the same time. When I see swarm cells I will make two nucs, one with a couple of swarm cells and one with the old queen. The remaining frames will condense into one deep box with the RR super on top and also a few swarm cells. While they wait for a new queen they won't swarm and with very little young brood to feed they will hopefully focus on honey storage instead of brood rearing. 

OK, any feedback on my master plan?


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## D Coates (Jan 6, 2006)

Dubhe said:


> For those of you who dispense with the RRs and produce your own "cut comb honey," how do you package it?


I put them in the 4"x 4" x1.25" clear cassette case. I have a band label that I center and rap around the edges. They cost @$1.25 apiece (in 100 bulk including freight) the label costs @$.25 and I sell them for $12 apiece. Off of a well drawn frame I can make over $40 profit. Normally I only get 3 per frame though. With the scraps that aren't well drawn I'll cut it into large chunks that fit into a 12oz hex jar and sell those for $10. I'll make over $8 in profit on those when deducting the jar and label.


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