# What to do with all the honey?



## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

Don't count your honey before you get your bees.


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## frankthomas (Aug 2, 2012)

Ten.. your first year there probably will not be any surplus honey to take from the bees. They put so much energy into building comb and getting there new home setup that there usually is not any extra

If you do a good job the first year and prepare them properly for winter and they survive through Spring, then maybe around August you'll be able to take some honey. After keeping what you want and giving friends and family what they want, if you still have some left you might be surprised with how easy it is to sell one hundred 1 lb bottles of honey. Between work, my barber agreeing to sell from his shop and friends coming back for 2nds and 3rds and insisting on paying for it, I sold 100 bottles with very little effort after the extracting and bottling.


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## ramdino (Jan 26, 2013)

You said you are a family, if you have young children, let them turn it into a business. If you are just bound and determined not to at least let it pay for your hobby, it can get out of hand fast, the give it to soup kitchens or to another bee keeper, I'm sure he'll know what to do with it.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

You most likely (as others have said) won't have a surplus until your 2nd year. Perhaps be then, you'll have found more outlets for your honey. It may surprise you how much honey you, your family and friends can devour........


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## Tim KS (May 9, 2014)

snl said:


> You most likely (as others have said) won't have a surplus until your 2nd year. Perhaps be then, you'll have found more outlets for your honey. *It may surprise you how much honey you, your family and friends can devour.......*.


...especially if it's free.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

It makes well appreciated Christmas gifts. Much more effective to give your boss a jar of honey rather than a polished apple!

If you dont feed back sugar syrup, you may find that you only net about 60 pounds of honey per hive. There are strategies to reduce hone production too if that is your wish.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

DO NOT assume you will not have a surplus. A leading cause of beekeeper failure is listening to the well meaning idiot who gives hard and fast rules that lead to the expanding bees in a good location running out of room and swarming to death the colony or leaving it so weak it cannot winter. The bees cannot store a surplus unless given the room if they need it.

That is a side note to your question but one I really want you to know. Your Guvmint will be worried about you selling an uninspected product probably. Find out the hoops needing jumped to satisfy the ladies in the clean brown shirts. At least she is a female here. Mostly you will sell out your clean healthy nutritious product by word of mouth to friends and neighbors. Good luck with your bees.


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## ramdino (Jan 26, 2013)

I had a nice surplus my first season and one of those colonies is still going strong. I sell all I got via WOM and FB and family and friends and have them asking for more. MY first year I sold too much and did not have enough to get me through the winter, LOL. Never had any G-man give me grief.


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## Bee Bliss (Jun 9, 2010)

If you think of your honey as only being used on biscuits, then you probably will think you will have too much honey. The reality is once you start implementing using honey in place of white sugar, the possibilities are endless and the supply gets used up fast. Honey is so much more healthy for you than sugar.

We use our honey for:

baking pies (especially pumpkin, apple and cherry), 
adding to applesauce we can, 
other canning, baking or cooking, 
sweet 'n sour sauce (use 50% apple cider vinegar and 50% honey and thicken), 
French dressing or honey mustard dressing,
lot and lots of honey/lemonade/apple cider vinegar drinks,
random recipes
Nephew likes his peanut butter and honey sandwiches lol
gifts for others (especially as creamed honey)
Some people make mead.
Honey has medicinal uses and can be used for wounds and burns with excellent results.
Honey is good for healing the digestive system. 
Homemade skin-care products
There are probably a few things I have forgotten to add to this list that we use honey for.

We also have been gifting candles made out of beeswax. Harvest some propolis too.


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

I am not interested in harvesting honey at all, so I have wondered about this, too. This is only my second winter so up till now the bees have kept almost all the honey they made. (I had a few frames left over after I equalized the stores among the first and second year colonies this fall.) So far, for me, the surplus honey issue hasn't been a problem.

However in asking around among experienced beekeepers I have found that there is some interest in purchasing frames of capped honey at the tail end of winter/earliest spring to augment a hive that's running low. If you had a surplus of capped frames (which would only begin to happen in your second or third year) you might be able to do that.

Otherwise you could extract it and give the stuff away to your local food pantry.

Enj.


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## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

enjambres said:


> I am not interested in harvesting honey at all,


You might enjoy a TBH then.


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## Tenacres10 (Dec 24, 2014)

Thanks to everyone for the replies … I loved the idea about the food pantry, makes complete sense. Thanks again!!


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

Well, you've got me curious. It's clear that you are not very interested in excess honey surplus from your colonies. I'm wondering what your main objective is for getting into beekeeping this Spring. I'm glad you're are planning to take the plunge, just curious what your motivations are, if you don't mind sharing.


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## Tenacres10 (Dec 24, 2014)

I don't mind sharing at all … guess my main concern is the demands on my time (family, work, house & property maintenance, etc.). In the past we've been able to pretty easily give away excess apples, and our homemade applesauce & maple syrup. I know it'll take some time but it sounds like down the road we could have gallons of honey … I may be wrong, but it seems like with as long as honey lasts not everyone will need/want it every year. I just didn't want to have to work too hard to sell it … years ago I gave my brother homemade grape jelly to sell in his small restaurant and the health department made him stop because it didn't come from a business that went through inspections. I've always loved the idea of having our own bees & am doing it mostly because of the benefits to our environment (we also have a bunch of fruit trees). Sounds like though nobody is having a problem either giving away or selling their excess, so hopefully it'll be a non-issue for us.


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## jcolon (Sep 12, 2014)

Check your state laws but honey being a natural product as opposed to jelly which is a made product it could be very different.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

The laws in Ohio are similar. 

If I sell non-taxable food products, like jelly or honey, from my home or a roadside stand I would be in the "cottage" category (up to a maximum annual revenue, which a hobbyist would never reach). In this case I would not be required to have facility inspections, unless a formal complaint of some kind was filed against me. 

But the moment my products are sold in a second hand retail setting I'm bound to a new set of laws, with Health Department inspections and adherence to local codes and processing guidelines. It's a totally different set of requirements than processing from your home kitchen.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Mike Gillmore said:


> But the moment my products are sold in a second hand retail setting I'm bound to a new set of laws, with Health Department inspections and adherence to local codes and processing guidelines. It's a totally different set of requirements than processing from your home kitchen.


I wonder what would happen, if you sold honey(with your labels on it) to someone not knowing they were reselling it..........


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

Tenacres10 said:


> … I may be wrong, but it seems like with as long as honey lasts not everyone will need/want it every year. I just didn't want to have to work too hard to sell it ….


With a few healthy hives and good weather you might be surprised how much honey you could end up with. Gallons is not a stretch at all in a good year. 

I think you also might be surprised how easy it would be to sell it. Once the word gets out you will have people coming to you. You would need to put in "some" effort to sell it, but it's not as difficult as you might think. Good local honey is one of those products that sometimes sells itself. And there are customers who do go through a lot of honey, and they will keep coming back.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

snl said:


> I wonder what would happen, if you sold honey(with your labels on it) to someone not knowing they were reselling it..........


Good question. I don't know if the retailer alone would answer for it, or if it falls back on the producer as well. 

Logically, it doesn't seem right that it would be the producers responsibility. Once I sell a jar of honey (from my home) I no longer have control over what happens to the product from there. I no longer own it. 

Neil, you out there?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

It won't go bad unless you get water in it.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Mike Gillmore said:


> But the moment my products are sold in a second hand retail setting I'm bound to a new set of laws, with Health Department inspections and adherence to local codes and processing guidelines. It's a totally different set of requirements than processing from your home kitchen.


"second hand retail"? Is that the same thing as selling wholesale? Being someone who sells wholesale to a retail outlet? If so, then the Liability is yours. That's why you have to have a Label with all of the required text. So the contents can be traced back to you, the supplier.

"I wonder what would happen, if you sold honey(with your labels on it) to someone not knowing they were reselling it.........."
What does that matter as far as Product Liability is concerned. The one whose label is on the jar is responsible for what is in the jar.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Mike Gillmore said:


> Good question. I don't know if the retailer alone would answer for it, or if it falls back on the producer as well.
> 
> Logically, it doesn't seem right that it would be the producers responsibility. Once I sell a jar of honey (from my home) I no longer have control over what happens to the product from there. I no longer own it.
> 
> Neil, you out there?


Then maybe you shouldn't put a label on it, if you are concerned about standing behind what you sold. What's the difference whether you sell it from your home or it gets sold from a store shelf. If you sell your honey to a store that stocks it on their shelf and it turns out to have something other than honey in it, say a shard of glass or something, the store is going to go back to you as is your State Food Safety Unit.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

We're not talking abut standing behind the "product", I think we're off in a different direction. 

State law requires a label on all jars of honey sold, whether I sell it from my home as a cottage producer or if it's sold on someones store shelf. The reason for the label, as mentioned, is to validate the "source" in the event there was a complaint regarding product quality.

The question I have has to do with my standing as a "cottage" producer. How can I control what someone does with my honey when it's sold? If I knowingly (as a wholesaler) sell my honey to a retailer and it ends up on a store shelf, I am no longer considered a cottage producer and am subject to Health Department inspections with a new set of building code and processing guidelines. If I don't know the buyer is going to put my jars on a store shelf, where do I stand?


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

snl said:


> I wonder what would happen, if you sold honey(with your labels on it) to someone not knowing they were reselling it..........


I'm not talking about product liability (altho that may be a problem), I was wondering it turning you into a retailer for which the "non-kitchen" rules apply.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Mike Gillmore said:


> The question I have has to do with my standing as a "cottage" producer. How can I control what someone does with my honey when it's sold? If I knowingly sell my honey to a retailer and it ends up on a store shelf, I am no longer considered a cottage producer and am subject to Health Department inspections with a new set of building code and processing guidelines. If I don't know the buyer is going to put my jars on a store shelf, where do I stand?


Exactly...


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I don't see that you do stand. As a cottage producer you have no control over what anyone does with what you sell them. What is your concern? That someone will buy a case of honey from you, at your home, and put it on their store's shelf? If you don't know the buyer is going to sell it, you may end up getting inspected anyway, should someone notice your honey on a store shelf.

Telling an Inspector that you didn't know that the guy that bought your honey was going to resell it won't keep you from getting inspected. Especially if one person buys your whole crop.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

sqkcrk said:


> Then maybe you shouldn't put a label on it


The point I was making Mark was, you didn't know that your honey was to be resold........... We all (I believe) have to put labels on our product.........


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## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

Mike Gillmore said:


> ...I am no longer considered a cottage producer and am subject to Health Department inspections with a new set of building code and processing guidelines.


This is from an old thread, I wonder if the county/state distinction is true.



Countryboy said:


> The labeling laws will likely be your biggest headache. (and I see mislabeled honey all the time.)
> 
> From what I understand, the label must state:
> 
> ...


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

sqkcrk said:


> I don't see that you do stand. As a cottage producer you have no control over what anyone does with what you sell them. What is your concern? That someone will buy a case of honey from you, at your home, and put it on their store's shelf? If you don't know the buyer is going to sell it, you may end up getting inspected anyway, should someone notice your honey on a store shelf.


That is a concern. I don't have a problem as a "cottage producer." I'd have a BIG problem as wholesaler..............


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

snl said:


> I'm not talking about product liability (altho that may be a problem), I was wondering [about] it turning you into a retailer for which the "non-kitchen" rules apply.


If you sell honey at your home with a label on it you are a retailer. Whether the 'non-kitchen" rules apply is something a regulator would have to determine.

[about] was my guess.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

snl said:


> We all (I believe) have to put labels on our product.........


Who says so? Who enforces it being so? How? Tons upon tons of honey in this Nation are sold w/out labels on it's container.

I don't understand the concern. Is it that an inspection will mean not being able to do what you already do because certain codes would not be met?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

snl said:


> That is a concern. I don't have a problem as a "cottage producer." I'd have a BIG problem as wholesaler..............


Why?


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

sqkcrk said:


> I don't understand the concern. Is it that an inspection will mean not being able to do what you already do because certain codes would not be met?


A beekeeper selling their product themselves (under a certain amount) is not subject to certain "kitchen rules."


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Okay. So what's the problem? I don't get it.


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## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

Maybe it's the need to spend tens of thousands of dollars to get approved.


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## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

sqkcrk said:


> I don't see that you do stand. As a cottage producer you have no control over what anyone does with what you sell them. What is your concern? That someone will buy a case of honey from you, at your home, and put it on their store's shelf? If you don't know the buyer is going to sell it, you may end up getting inspected anyway, should someone notice your honey on a store shelf.
> 
> Telling an Inspector that you didn't know that the guy that bought your honey was going to resell it won't keep you from getting inspected. Especially if one person buys your whole crop.


If you are afraid of being inspected you shouldn't sell the honey. You shouldn't even eat it.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

sqkcrk said:


> Okay. So what's the problem? I don't get it.


If I sell any jars of honey which will be resold at a retail store, whether it's 1 lb or 1000 lbs, I am no longer a cottage producer.

The problem is that now (in Ohio anyway) i have to have a separate building to process my honey and the facility has to meet all of the State and County regulations. I can no longer extract my honey in the garage and bottle it in my kitchen. We're looking at investing thousands of dollars to comply with the regulations. That's a big problem for a small kitchen operation.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Mike Gillmore said:


> If I sell any jars of honey which will be resold at a retail store, whether it's 1 lb or 1000 lbs, I am no longer a cottage producer.
> 
> The problem is that now (in Ohio anyway) i have to have a separate building to process my honey and the facility has to meet all of the State and County regulations. I can no longer extract my honey in the garage and bottle it in my kitchen. We're looking at investing thousands of dollars to comply with the regulations. That's a big problem for a small kitchen operation.


Mark, the above, ditto in SC.......... that's my concern. I've had those approach me to wholesale to them, I did not. They then purchased at retail. My concern is them reselling and then my being held to "non-cottage" rules and regs...


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Thanks. Now I see what you are up against. OH Law now says that you have to extract and bottle your honey in a building built to regulatory specifications and be subject to inspection. If you bottle your own honey for selling. Right? 

I don't see any way around your dilemma. And it also seems like you know what you have to do. So why worry about whether someone buys 1 or 100 lbs of your honey and sells it at a store, because you need, by law, to comply with regulation. Or, fly under the radar as long as possible and take the consequences.

What if you take your honey to someone else's building to process it? Can you extract in your garage and bottle at someone else's facility?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

snl said:


> Mark, the above, ditto in SC.......... that's my concern. I've had those approach me to wholesale to them, I did not. They then purchased at retail. My concern is them reselling and then my being held to "non-cottage" rules and regs...


Call the regulators and ask them. Seems to me that if you are producing enough honey that someone thinks they can buy it and resell it and make a profit and this is a problem to you, maybe you should charge a higher price for the inconvenience. Your retail price should be the same as what they are going to charge in the store anyway. Otherwise, you are a wholesaler, not a retailer.

Easy enough for me to say, I'm sure.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

sqkcrk said:


> OH Law now says that you have to extract and bottle your honey in a building built to regulatory specifications and be subject to inspection. If you bottle your own honey for selling. Right?


Only if the honey is to be "resold" at a retail store.

I can extract in the garage and bottle in the kitchen and sell up to $15,000 annually I believe, and as a cottage operation I am not bound by the State and County regulations or subject to inspections. As long as my sale is the final sale of the product.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Then I don't see a problem. As long as you don't deliver. Once it leaves your possession you have no control what someone else does with it. But if someone comes around wanting to inspect your facility saying that you didn't know that your customer, who owns a store, was going to sell your honey from their shelf. I would buy that story, would you?


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## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

> Section 3717.22
> 
> A maple syrup and sorghum processor and beekeeper described in division (A) of section 3715.021 of the Revised Code is exempt from the requirement to be licensed as a retail food establishment, on the condition that the processor or beekeeper offers only maple syrup, sorghum, or honey *directly to the consumer* from the site where those products are processed.
> 
> ...


Somewhere else in there it gives the max dollar amount. I couldn't find it in my quick search.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

It's been a while since I read through all the regulations, but I seem to remember that $15,000 is the maximum dollar figure to remain exempt.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

And what is the penalty? Small fry are not worth the trouble of enforcement. It's the guys who really take advantage or abuse the system that get attention. You guys have nothing to worry about.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Mike Gillmore said:


> It's been a while since I read through all the regulations, but I seem to remember that $15,000 is the maximum dollar figure to remain exempt.


Twelve hives at 60 lbs of honey per hive times $20.00/lb is what it would take to reach that level. What do you have to worry about? Really. Unless you really think or know that someone is buying and selling your honey.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

I'm not worried about it at all, I have a long way to go to reach that level.

We're discussing a hypothetical situation that snl expressed about a buyer reselling his honey without his consent or knowledge. 

For example, say I unknowingly sell a health food store owner a dozen 1# jars at $5.00 each and he resells them in his store for $7.00 (40% margin). "If" something should come up later regarding my status as a Cottage operation do I have any legal responsibility for "his" actions? 

I don't know. I'm not in the wholesale business so perhaps there is a paper trail or record keeping that the retailer is responsible to maintain.


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## philip.devos (Aug 10, 2013)

dsegrest said:


> Don't count your honey before you get your bees.


+1!

Phil


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## NeilV (Nov 18, 2006)

Coincidentally, I did not see this until now because I spent yesterday selling honey at the local flea market. I usually can sell it all by word of mouth, but last year was a good year and I still have some left.

First, these laws vary by state, so you need to check your own state's laws. Up until about 2 years ago, in Oklahoma, you really had to sell direct from your house. However, now you can sell direct at home or away from home (farmers markets/flea markets) and not violate the law, but you have to put a label on the honey jar that has your contact information and states that "This honey was bottled or packaged in a facility that was no inspected by the Oklahoma Department of Health." 


As for what happens if somebody resells your honey, generally only the retail seller would be violating the law, assuming that the beekeeper followed the law when selling to that person. 

However, there is a big caveat. The general rule is that a person who "aids and abets" another person who commits a crime is liable just like the person who is violating the law. To "aid and abet" you have to have knowledge that the other person is going to commit the crime and help that person do so. The net effect is that if you sell the honey to another person with knowledge that the other person intends to resell it in a store in violation of the law, then you would probably be violating the law too as an aider/abettor. 

Also, an intent to aid/abet can be proven by circumstantial evidence. So if somebody is buying a bunch of honey or you know that the buyer also owns the local health food store and is buying and reselling your stuff, then that would be enough to prove aiding/abetting. 

As a practical matter, I doubt the state health inspector or whoever hands out the tickets would bother to track the beekeeper down. 

Editorial comment: For honey, these laws are really just a way for the state to make a buck by issuing a license for a fee (or by issuing a ticket if somebody did not have the required license). There's certainly some products that need to be inspected, but honey is not one of them. (Moderator: Please just delete this paragraph if it makes this post worthy of Tailgater).


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## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

NeilV said:


> Editorial comment: For honey, these laws are really just a way for the state to make a buck by issuing a license for a fee (or by issuing a ticket if somebody did not have the required license). There's certainly some products that need to be inspected, but honey is not one of them.


Yeah, well, the honey house they want us to build is the same as if it were a slaughterhouse or restaurant.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

Thanks Neil. That is exactly what we were looking for.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

Tenacres,
Sorry we got so far off topic. Hopefully you got an answer to your questions.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

NeilV said:


> Coincidentally, I did not see this until now because I spent yesterday selling honey at the local flea market. I usually can sell it all by word of mouth, but last year was a good year and I still have some left.
> 
> First, these laws vary by state, so you need to check your own state's laws. Up until about 2 years ago, in Oklahoma, you really had to sell direct from your house. However, now you can sell direct at home or away from home (farmers markets/flea markets) and not violate the law, but you have to put a label on the honey jar that has your contact information and states that "This honey was bottled or packaged in a facility that was no inspected by the Oklahoma Department of Health."
> 
> ...


Tailgater? Shoot. This Post seems like the best legal advice and point of view of all of the Posts in this or any other Thread. And it was free. Win Win.


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## PaBill (Apr 4, 2014)

What you need to do is start selling 5 gallon buckets with lids. Make it clear your selling the bucket not the honey, your giving that to them. If they buy the bucket they get free honey. :banana: Problem solved...


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## Andrew Dewey (Aug 23, 2005)

snl said:


> A beekeeper selling their product themselves (under a certain amount) is not subject to certain "kitchen rules."


Not true in Maine - If you process honey for sale, it must be in a licensed facility. If you extract, you process. Cut comb honey is not considered processed. (again, I'm speaking about Maine)


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## Andrew Dewey (Aug 23, 2005)

PaBill said:


> What you need to do is start selling 5 gallon buckets with lids. Make it clear your selling the bucket not the honey, your giving that to them. If they buy the bucket they get free honey. :banana: Problem solved...


Unfortunately this technique has been tried and failed. Doesn't pass the straight face test.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

Andrew Dewey said:


> Not true in Maine - If you process honey, it must be in a licensed facility. If you extract, you process. Cut comb honey is not considered processed. (again, I'm speaking about Maine)


That's interesting. If a beekeeper only has a handful of hives what are the options?


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## Andrew Dewey (Aug 23, 2005)

Mike Gillmore said:


> That's interesting. If a beekeeper only has a handful of hives what are the options?


You get your home kitchen licensed or you give away your crop. Or you pretend the law isn't on the books and hope you don't get caught. I know one person whose road side stand was shut down by the state. For a home kitchen the requirements are not overly onerous - tested water source, properly constructed septic system, sanitary conditions for processing, etc.


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## NeilV (Nov 18, 2006)

In Oklahoma, all that they care about is the bottling part. Of course, who knows where a lot of honey in drums was extracted and under what conditions? That's another reason these laws are goofy: honey could be extracted in an outhouse in some other country and if its bottled in an inspected facility, it's all good. 

Also, even if the honey is bottled in an inspected kitchen, nobody has inspected whether the bottles were cleaned, and nobody checks whether the kitchen was clean on the actual day of the bottling. 

None of it makes sense, and this is just an excuse to help charge a fee to pay for the regulation of other stuff, only some of which needs regulation.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Andrew Dewey said:


> Not true in Maine - If you process honey for sale, it must be in a licensed facility. If you extract, you process. Cut comb honey is not considered processed. (again, I'm speaking about Maine)


So do you have such a facility? Has it ever been inspected?


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## Spark (Feb 24, 2011)

Andrew Dewey said:


> Not true in Maine - If you process honey for sale, it must be in a licensed facility. If you extract, you process. Cut comb honey is not considered processed. (again, I'm speaking about Maine)


Wonder who passed that law on the books


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## dleemc1 (Dec 31, 2012)

mine is sold, or I should say,, people want it before it is ever made.


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## sweetas (Apr 16, 2012)

When I did my first extraction for about 46 years, I got 70 kg of honey. I did ask the same question. Gave some away, spilt about 30 kg so solved part of the problem. I now sell about 200 kg a week so now not a problem at all.

Use your initiative Good luck Geoff


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## missybee (Sep 6, 2014)

I have neighbors that found out we were going to have hives, they are waiting for our first harvest! A waiting list................lol


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## jcolon (Sep 12, 2014)

Same here. People hear you have bees they get in line...


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