# Is this normal...?



## kimberjim (Oct 8, 2002)

Hi guys.....I have been fogging my hives since early Dec '02 when Pedro was kind enough to supply me with an adapter so I could use my large gas bottles.( Thanks again !)

Veroa mites ist arrived in my district about 6 mths ago and I have been fogging once a week due to heavy reinfestation and have recently increased this to every 4 days or so with the onset of fall.

Well it's now early autum and I gave my hives the "sugar roll" test to check mite numbers using about 200 bees per test/per hive.I really want to go into winter with strong hives and the "distructor" under control.

Hmmmmmmm....So far most of the hives have returned a mite count of between 10 to 30 per test.One test showed a count of 78 per 200 bees!! This was from a split done the day befor with 3 frames of capped brood and 4 of stores.

The mite count seems rather high across the board and I'm starting to feel abit concerned......I'm concidering putting in Apistan strips in an effort to get the numbers down quickly.

The whole veroa thing is still very new to us here and I, for one don't have a yard stick to go by...except y'all.

BTW I'm foging 40 hives to date.

Any thoughts would be apreciated.

jim


----------



## Guest (Mar 15, 2003)

Jim,
YES, get Apistan in your hives ASAP. This is the APPROVED treatment for varroa. FGMO is only approved by Dr.R. NO ONE else in the WORLD has approved FGMO as a treatment for mites. Fogging only is NOT the method. When this method can be duplicated by REAL science and found to be correct THEN go out and try it. Going into winter with that mite count means your bees are going to crash. Ask others in your area what is working.
Kevin

[This message has been edited by Kevin S. Lunsford (edited March 15, 2003).]


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

You have to decide WHAT to do, but you definitely should do SOMETHING. Other alternatives are the Drone Comb trapping method http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/dronemethod.html or the oxalic acid or the formic acid or Check Mite.


----------



## clintonbemrose (Oct 23, 2001)

Have you also used the cords allong with the fogging? When I first started last year with FGMO I only fogged and the mite count seemed to go down then it got worse. I fogged every 7 days. Then Dr. R suggested I try the whole method using the cords. I started using the cords also amd my mite problems seemed to decrease to almost none. I love the method.
Thanks Dr.R


------------------
Clinton Bemrose
just South of Lansing Michigan


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

>I'm concidering putting in Apistan strips in an effort to get the numbers down quickly

That it will do. I think it is your best bet. Your hives will still go into winter stressed from the recent infection. Be sure the queen is laying stronge and there is lots of food available for them to winter on. Why would you treat all your hives with FGMO? I know the evedence is pretty impressive, but it still in the testing stage of studdy. Go with the sure fire method with most of your hives, and test the rest with FGMO to compaire results. And if FGMO works for you, then put it back into full use. Sounds to me that you are either doing something wrong, or the FGMO treatment is not that effective.

Ian


----------



## Axtmann (Dec 29, 2002)

Hi kimberjim there are your bees and you have to make the decision what kind of treatment you like to use.
As the Oxalic Acid is recommended from your government, I would go with this. 

Like Ian sad, Why would you treat all your hives with FGMO? I know the evedence is pretty impressive, but it still in the testing stage of studdy. Go with the sure fire method with most of your hives, and test the rest with FGMO to compaire results. And if FGMO works for you, then put it back into full use. Sounds to me that you are either doing something wrong, or the FGMO treatment is not that effective.


Im member of a beekeeper club with almost 90 beekeepers and most of as started last year with oxalic fog (before I treated my colonies with liquid oxalic and others).
Our club ordered a few dozen of a kind of vaporizer where we can treat the colonies from outside the hives. 
Last late summer/fall I started using this method for a few weeks because (one treatment a week) and counted the mites on the sticky paper. It was a great success and my colonies are very strong this spring. Oxalic acid works only outside the closed cells (like FGMO). After two recommended treatments (brood free colonies) in December almost all of my hives had no Varroa anymore (control on the paper). The Varroa will come back, I know, but Im not worried. 
The lost of colonies in the club during winter is so far approx 2%, the lowest since the Varroa arrived in Germany in 1976. A very good side effect, there is no losses of bees or queens with the fog.
This treatment has a long history and is also approved in several countries.

I will see how the FMGO works in the future but I personally think it is not for the commercial beekeepers, it cost too much time every week during the year.


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

>I will see how the FMGO works in the future but I personally think it is not for the commercial beekeepers, it cost too much time every week during the year.

I would agree. This is its biggest obstical.

Ian


----------



## kimberjim (Oct 8, 2002)

As mentioned, something had to be done and it was. I put Apistan strips in my hives and the mites are on the retreat. whew!
Now about my use of FGMO and its apparent failure.
Big Mistake #1.
First of all I live in a sub-tropical environment and EVERYTHING here grows like crazy. My bees fly and the queens lay all year round. As you know, our individual conditions have a bearing on how we work and husband our bees. I for one, should have been a bit more astute and taken things a little more slowly. I should not have dived in "boots and all" with FGMO with out testing things ist.
Big Mistake #2.
Pedro has, on more than one occasion, laid out the methods he has had success with. He has said it over and over. Guess what?
I did not follow his instructions to the letter.
Some one here said they had used the fogger only (no cords) and it worked for them and it controlled their veroa problem ......so thats what I did also. For me it saved time and it appealed to me.( my lazy side )
Brother...I should have known better.
So my high mite numbers can not be attributed to the failure of FGMO but rather to me not following instructions and not taking into account my own AO.!!
In saying all this, I will again use FGMO next spring but in a hand full of hives only. I will use it EXACTLY as Pedro described and will see what happens.
The cords and the work they entail are a hassle but if thats what it takes then so be it. Lesson learnt !
Thanks for your input guys and good bee keeping to you all.

jim


----------



## Juandefuca (Mar 16, 2000)

To All
I would like to know what it means to be"Approved " ?It depends on where you live and whether you adhere to the " Approved " song and dance . ( May I point toward the "Drug" debacle )
As far as I can determine it is rather a permission to use under specific guidelines .
And / or the chief reason for that is the possibility of adverse contamination of food stuff. ( Referenc to the usage in the USA ) 
. 
The reason why we are still looking for the silver bullet is just the point . Whatever is/ was "Approved " either did not have results or lost their viability.The Mites became resistent irrespective what chemical synthetic or " natural " was or is used ,as it has been found with antibiotics also. Another questionable comment is the reference to "valid research" . May be an explanation is in order to 
spell that out .What makes one research result differ or more valid from another . Additionally ,by what criteria can anyone say that this or that specific method was NOT controlled by other entities also, to verify validity . 
The bottomline for FGMO is primarily the observation by many beekeepers that the process does not adversely affect the bees , the food and the other components of the hive . 
The method of application is still under scrutiny and we shall see by sticking our heads together to find a method different as we use now .
As I said before , If anyone is under the impression the mites just disappear into thin air is within the cookooland of wishful thinking . The reasons for that has been chewed over in past posts and elsewhere .
I have stated on several occasions that I do or did not use any "chenmical" other than FGMO since the fall of 1999 . There was no loss of colonies since that time by Mite reasons , Varroa or Tracheal .Are there still mites in the colonies in variable quantities ? YES , but the bees are able to live with them and factors such as genetics play a role in this relationship. Another influence might also be the size of cells which is another approach I try to introduce . 
Again I must state that anyone condemming any method one must furnish reasons WHY it did not show satifactory results and proof of such .
Happy beeing 
JDF


----------

