# Where Do You Extract Honey?



## woodedareas (Sep 10, 2010)

I use my garage but spend a lot of time cleaning before we set up for extracting . I even power wash the floor but I would prefer a room just dedicated to this purpose and was wondering where type of places others use.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

My Kitchen.


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## Chemguy (Nov 26, 2012)

My garage works well, but I find it easier to just clean the kitchen. It usually needs a bit of tidying anyway. Oh, and it will need to be cleaned afterward, too.

If my hobby turns into something more, I will build a honey house. That's a long way off, if it happens at all. There are several threads here about their design.


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## lazy shooter (Jun 3, 2011)

To date, my extracting has been two deep frames at a time using a crush and strain method. It's happening in the kitchen. I have a maxant 3100P that I hope to use this fall. It will be done in the garage. I will clean the floors, lay down a polyethylene paint cover and give it a go.

At âge 75, I don't even think of a honey house. That would be too abusive of my children's inheritance, and I don't want to work that hard.


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## Pete O (Jul 13, 2013)

A large garden shed. When the lawn mower and snow blower are removed, there's plenty of room for helpers. A large sheet of rubber covers the floor. The extractor is a manual Kelley 200 Two frame.


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## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

Why in the milk house of course! I live on a dairy farm. The cows have been gone for years, and the milk house has a cement floor that is smooth as silk from years of scrubbing. The walls are covered with 1/4" thick fiberglass sheeting. as well as the ceiling. all the lights are recessed and sealed in gasketed glass, the electric outlets are in water proof enclosures. It has stainless steel counters, and shelves. Plenty of water at great pressure, and even a 1000 gallon bulk tank should I decide I need it. (That would hold 12000 pounds of honey!) I could not have had a custom built honey shack that would be any better.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

The kitchen.


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## MAXANT (Sep 13, 2008)

The shop (factory), or the kitchen.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Someone else's Honey House.


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## bevy's honeybees (Apr 21, 2011)

Kitchen and dining area together. 
I have a patio door at dining room where I drive up to patio (not enclosed) and reverse shop vac to blow out any remaining bees in supers. Inside door I have several commercial size cookie trays where I put the supers. I use the dining room table for decapping tank and the super I'm extracting, again super is on a cookie sheet. I have an empty cookie sheet for the extracted supers. Took me a couple seasons to get a good system figured out, and the commercial cookie trays are fantastic for preventing mess everywhere.


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## pmlock1 (May 12, 2013)

An old school bus my grandfather had intended to use for mobile extracting.


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

The solarium as it is warm, well screened has a cement floor with a drain.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

A very, very clean garage,


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## bison (Apr 27, 2011)

Garage. One good tip is to put a couple of wet towels on the floor and have a couple others handy. Makes it easy to clean up any spills and keep the bottom of your shoes clean.


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## Uberwilhelm (Mar 7, 2013)

Why all of the focus of clean, clean, clean? If you're spinning it and then filtering it though a bucket, does it really matter if your garage is hospital room clean? Am I missing something here?


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## happyflorencebees (May 1, 2014)

I'd still prefer not to get sawdust, dead wasps, and dog hair in it. I have a plastic table cloth I put over my counter to make clean up easier. When I'm done, I hang it outside for the bees to lick clean, then wipe it down.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Uberwilhelm said:


> Why all of the focus of clean, clean, clean? If you're spinning it and then filtering it though a bucket, does it really matter if your garage is hospital room clean? Am I missing something here?


Well, Uber, it is food. Just be thankful that no one is coming around to check on how clean your facility is, because you are too small to bother.


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## Wolfer (Jul 15, 2012)

I run my two frame homemade extractor with a cordless drill. It's pretty common for me to set up beside the tailgate of my truck a few feet from the hives. I pull two likely looking frames, extract and put them right back in. Repeat until I run out of frames, buckets or ambition.


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## Chemguy (Nov 26, 2012)

Too many jobs in the food industry have taught me that contamination can be just a small, unexpected step away. Even if you think there is no possible way in which a problem could occur.

I suppose that across the forum, we deal with a variety of regulations. In Ohio honey (and sorghum and maple syrup) is exempted from rules that apply to cottage food production and food processing facilities. Inspection of facilities is optional. But if a complaint is filed, be it baseless or not, then inspection is mandatory.


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## TWall (May 19, 2010)

Chemguy said:


> I suppose that across the forum, we deal with a variety of regulations. In Ohio honey (and sorghum and maple syrup) is exempted from rules that apply to cottage food production and food processing facilities. Inspection of facilities is optional. But if a complaint is filed, be it baseless or not, then inspection is mandatory.


Pete,

I think the Maple regulations may have changed. A local maple syrup producer ended up quitting this year due to increased regulations. He told me the costs made it prohibitive to continue. He tore down his sugar house over the past couple of weeks. He had planted several acres of sugar maples that are just getting up to tapping size.

I didn't ask him about the details. It makes me wonder if the exemption for honey will go away soon.

Tom


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## Chemguy (Nov 26, 2012)

I don't think that the ORC has been updated in the related sections, but it could have been. I do know that in OH local health departments are allowed to determine how the code is applied, which could be related to the shutdown. I won't worry about honey regulations yet, but will keep my eyes peeled.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Chemguy said:


> Too many jobs in the food industry have taught me that contamination can be just a small, unexpected step away. Even if you think there is no possible way in which a problem could occur.
> 
> I suppose that across the forum, we deal with a variety of regulations. In Ohio honey (and sorghum and maple syrup) is exempted from rules that apply to cottage food production and food processing facilities. Inspection of facilities is optional. But if a complaint is filed, be it baseless or not, then inspection is mandatory.


That it is Chem and I know a honey producing and packing family that was inspected and told that they had to start setting up ways to know where every bit of their honey was produced down to which supers came from which yds so each jar of honey could be traced back to the geographical place where the bees made it. Yet honey by it's makeup does not support pathogens.

I know another honey packer who has to regularly take swabs from from the outlets of his pipelines. 

Inspectors have made beekeepers dump honey. An employee was filling a barrel w/ honey when an Inspector was on site and the employee stuck his finger in the honey stream to take a taste. Down the drain w/ that barrel of honey.

So, be careful about joking about cleanliness in the Honey House/garage/kitchen/school bus. You never know who reads beesource.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> You never know who reads beesource.


I read it Mark and all those dimwits are part of a fraturity to create government jobs. They could care less about people's health.
I extract in a kitchen full of crap and any number of animal dander, hair, filthy objects from storage bins. Who knows what is in that kitchen at any given time. No trouble giving away honey to family members and friends that I love. I worked in the medical industry for 23 years. Knowing where the honey came from is by far the most important criteria.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Acebird said:


> I read it Mark ...


Yes, that's what I meant.

Crap in your kitchen? Maybe a Health Inspector should pay you a visit.


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## treeWinder (May 3, 2013)

Kitchen


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

TWall said:


> It makes me wonder if the exemption for honey will go away soon.Tom


If it does then :ws:


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> Inspectors have made beekeepers dump honey. An employee was filling a barrel w/ honey when an Inspector was on site and the employee stuck his finger in the honey stream to take a taste. Down the drain w/ that barrel of honey..


Years in foodservice have taught me that the best answer when an inspector says dump it is "yes sir". Argue and you'll might win the battle but you've just started a WAR!!

That said if it happens to you I'll buy all the not fit for human consumption because of cross contamination with a teenagers finger honey you have. I can't pay much for it just going to use it for animal feed :lpf:


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Wolfer said:


> It's pretty common for me to set up beside the tailgate of my truck a few feet from the hives. I pull two likely looking frames, extract and put them right back in. Repeat until I run out of frames, buckets or ambition.


Really? How many hives do you run? Do you do all you extracting in this manner?


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## Ted n Ms (Apr 25, 2008)

My honey house is an old dairy barn.


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## Cantrellc123 (Jan 15, 2013)

I extract in my basement garage. I do a thorough cleaning beforehand, it's a GREAT reason to do a nice cleaning once a year.
I'm able to back the pickup truck into the garage with all the supers in the back of it. I open the door between the garage and the living area the night before, this way its quite cool in the garage the next morning when we begin. Once I extracted in an un cooled garage with a friend and keeping dripping sweat in check was a real job, never again.
I've got a sink and a bathroom in the basement so water access is provided. A concrete floor is nice in the fact that when a few drips end up on the floor a water hose is all that's needed.


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

Acebird said:


> I read it Mark and _*all those dimwits are part of a fraturity to create government jobs. *_They could care less about people's health.
> I extract in a kitchen full of crap and any number of animal dander, hair, filthy objects from storage bins. Who knows what is in that kitchen at any given time. No trouble giving away honey to family members and friends that I love. I worked in the medical industry for 23 years. Knowing where the honey came from is by far the most important criteria.


My Man.:thumbsup:


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> Crap in your kitchen? Maybe a Health Inspector should pay you a visit.


It is an office kitchen not our home kitchen. Although it has all the cupboards, counter top and sink that we have in our upstairs kitchen, it lacks a stove. It does have a stand up freezer and a refrigerator, unused tread mill, tables and potting soil to start plants, ironing board and an iron. In the past it has been used to raise baby chicks, kittens, puppies, and who knows what the next wounded wild life will be that my wife will try to save.
When we extract the tables are washed the extractor is cleaned along with all the stainless pots and utensils. We don't try to reclaim any honey that hits the floor.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I run my two frame homemade extractor with a cordless drill. It's pretty common for me to set up beside the tailgate of my truck a few feet from the hives. I pull two likely looking frames, extract and put them right back in. Repeat until I run out of frames, buckets or ambition. 

Apparently you've never seen a feeding frenzy...


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Uberwilhelm said:


> Why all of the focus of clean, clean, clean? If you're spinning it and then filtering it though a bucket, does it really matter if your garage is hospital room clean? Am I missing something here?


I extract in my garage - I clean everything that is accessible, and cover everything else with plastic sheeting. I usually bottle in the (small) kitchen. If I weren't exempt from most regulation and inspection because of small size this would never pass. But after recently watching "More than honey" i consider my product to be as pure as the driven snow compared to what was coming out of the commercial extractors in that documentary. 

But, I agree if you extract through a filter into bottling buckets, and then directly into retail containers and you are making a real effort to keep it clean there shouldn't be much opportunity for contamination. Anyone who just does it in a spot cleared out in the garage is unlikely to chime in here, so chances are this thread is a bit skewed. You know you are out there.

If you are a hunter, where do you dress game? Ever participated in a real old fashioned down home hog killing? Probably happened between the yard, the kitchen and the barn-like smokehouse. And the products were outstanding and wholesome. I wish I could get some of that today.

Another question - anyone ever even heard of a problem caused by a small timer extracting in unsanitary conditions?

Who are the first people to get honey from a hobby beekeeper? Their family. There is a certain degree of self regulation built into that supply chain model. The food producers that need watching are the outfits who have lawyers on the actual payroll. In my opinion.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

David LaFerney said:


> The food producers that need watching are the outfits who have lawyers on the actual payroll. In my opinion.


Do you think they retain legal representation because they are intentionally trying to get away w/ something, cutting corners, playing fast and loose w/ public health or because they produce and sell on such a large scale that they become easy targets for law suits?

You will never hear "of a problem caused by a small timer extracting in unsanitary conditions" unless they also intentionally poison their honey and feed it to people causing harm or death.

Have you ever heard of a problem caused by a large beekeeping operation extracting in their facility?


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

sqkcrk said:


> Do you think they retain legal representation because they are intentionally trying to get away w/ something, cutting corners, playing fast and loose w/ public health or because they produce and sell on such a large scale that they become easy targets for law suits?


All of that. With few exceptions Publicly held corporations do *everything* for one reason - it makes/retains them and their stock holders more profit. It is almost the de facto law that they do so.



sqkcrk said:


> You will never hear "of a problem caused by a small timer extracting in unsanitary conditions" unless they also intentionally poison their honey and feed it to people causing harm or death.


Is that because no problems are caused or because it even sinks below the 24 hour news cycle radar? Or both? "Hair found in jar of local honey" doesn't make much of a headline, or problem. A wax worm or nice fat drone brood would make a better (worse?) visual, but it would still have to be a pretty slow news day to get on the air. 



sqkcrk said:


> Have you ever heard of a problem caused by a large beekeeping operation extracting in their facility?


No I haven't. And I don't think that the crushed bees and brood flowing out along with the honey in that documentary represent a significant public health hazard - and I suspect it was the first flush of honey from the batch rinsing out the equipment. It just didn't look very appetizing. The point was you are very unlikely to see that coming out of my extractor - or any conscientious small timer I would think. Although it is true that the sieve often catches *something* that you wouldn't want to find on your biscuit. But that IS what it's for.

The old saying is true - "You don't want to see the sausage being made."


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## johng (Nov 24, 2009)

The first time we used the Kitchen put down plastic on the floor but, it was still way too messy for the house. The next year I used the screened in porch. It worked ok but, still was messy to clean up. So on the third year I closed in a part of my detached garage put in a floor drain and used it for the next few years. Then this winter we closed in some more of the detached garage so we could separate the extraction room from the bottling room. https://www.facebook.com/519851231447309/photos/pcb.573380659427699/573380226094409/?type=1&theater


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## Wolfer (Jul 15, 2012)

Michael Bush said:


> >I run my two frame homemade extractor with a cordless drill. It's pretty common for me to set up beside the tailgate of my truck a few feet from the hives. I pull two likely looking frames, extract and put them right back in. Repeat until I run out of frames, buckets or ambition.
> 
> Apparently you've never seen a feeding frenzy...


He he, yes I have seen a feeding frenzy. I guess I need to clarify. I'm extremely small time and I extract very few frames at a time. If theres a good strong flow on the bees won't pay me any mind. I can extract 10 or 20 frames and have less than a dozen bees in the bottom of the extractor.

If there's a dearth I wouldent dare do this.

I can only get comb drawn in the spring but I usuall have some maintenance flows that allow me to extract and they will fill the frames right back up. When they start taking a couple weeks to fill a frame I stop taking. 
I've done this ( and will again ) with only two double deep on the hive when I have no drawn supers and can't get any drawn. I'll take 2 or 4 capped frames. When their full ill take two more. So on until they slow down. I can usually get ten deep frames sometimes more and leave them with 10 deep framesto overwinter on.

This wouldent work for the big boys but the OP didn't ask for only the big boys. This works for me at the current time. 
Woody Roberts


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

David LaFerney said:


> Is that because no problems are caused or because it even sinks below the 24 hour news cycle radar? Or both? "Hair found in jar of local honey" doesn't make much of a headline, or problem. A wax worm or nice fat drone brood would make a better (worse?) visual, but it would still have to be a pretty slow news day to get on the air.
> 
> No I haven't. And I don't think that the crushed bees and brood flowing out along with the honey in that documentary represent a significant public health hazard - and I suspect it was the first flush of honey from the batch rinsing out the equipment. It just didn't look very appetizing. The point was you are very unlikely to see that coming out of my extractor - or any conscientious small timer I would think. Although it is true that the sieve often catches *something* that you wouldn't want to find on your biscuit. But that IS what it's for.


One reason and probably the best reason is that there aren't any significant a number of problems w/ Honey w/ stuff in it. Heck, there is a company from Baltimore.MD that sells honey w/ stuff in it on purpose and sells it Nationwide and it boggles my mind that no problems have arisen that I have heard of.

I'd have to see that part of the documentery which you refer to. I don't recall that part. Most likely that was the end of the tank, because the stuff you mentioned usually floats on top. Cappings wax and other stuff which may be on the surface of uncapped honey comb doesn't come out of your extractor? You must not run a whole lot of honey through your extractor compared to larger operations. Good job.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Wolfer said:


> He he, yes I have seen a feeding frenzy. I guess I need to clarify. I'm extremely small time and I extract very few frames at a time. If theres a good strong flow on the bees won't pay me any mind. I can extract 10 or 20 frames and have less than a dozen bees in the bottom of the extractor.
> 
> If there's a dearth I wouldent dare do this.
> 
> ...


I know an Amish family that has extracted honey in their bee yard w/ 40 hives there. They set up a screened shelter, like a pop up canopy w/ screen sidewalls. They would extract a super of honey and put it back on the hive.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> One reason and probably the best reason is that there aren't any significant a number of problems w/ Honey w/ stuff in it.


Even if there is stuff in it (and I would suspect small pieces in most honey that is just strained) it doesn't support bacterial growth that is harmful to people like most food items do. Meat, fish, and fresh vegetables are the risky food items because they don't get precooked. These items require washing and a lot of sanitation chemicals to keep the bacteria down. Luckily honey does not require so much of this.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

Honey is still food stuff and regardless of its anti-microbial properties, it is irresponsible to not make efforts to extract and bottle honey in a clean environment. There is no reason to be sloppy and careless.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

sqkcrk said:


> .
> You must not run a whole lot of honey through your extractor compared to larger operations. Good job.


No, only 40-50 gallons. I know that bigger operations have issues that I have never even thought of. In TN you are required to use an approved honey house if you produce more than 3000 pounds I think. So the question of where you extract is moot if you are commercial.


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## NCbeek (Mar 23, 2011)

In my kitchen. Everything is cleaned first including taking the extractor apart and washing all the parts and buckets in a bleach solution the day before. I'm not a clean freak, but I am a little germaphobic, especially with any food. Also wear plastic gloves and change them often. If anyone were to stick their finger in honey going into my bottles they would buy it all. Makes me sick thinking about it. Couldn't sell it or eat it myself. Guess that sounds crazy to some, but not to me.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

NCbeek said:


> If anyone were to stick their finger in honey going into my bottles they would buy it all. Makes me sick thinking about it...


I would guess that you REALLY don't want to see sausage being made. Or food being prepared at all for that matter. Most things *are* touched by human hands at some point.


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## NCbeek (Mar 23, 2011)

David LaFerney said:


> I would guess that you REALLY don't want to see sausage being made. Or food being prepared at all for that matter. Most things *are* touched by human hands at some point.


I've seen sausage made... they were wearing gloves and a hairnet. Wanna taste my honey? get a spoon. Then wash it.
Would you: go to a farmers market, watch someone open a jar of honey, stick thier finger in it for a taste, decide not to buy it, then purchase it for yourself? I wouldn't and don't think many would, Same thing that guy did to someone.
But back to the original question. My very clean kitchen, where nobody puts their fingers(or any other body part) in somene elses honey.
In fact, I think that last sentence ought to be on next years label..


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

"NCbeek Honey: "nobody puts their finger (or any other body part) in someone else's honey"

 Yeah, I bet that would sell. :lpf:


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## challenger (May 27, 2009)

Drive through car wash late at night. Pull the gear and honey frames in, put up sheets of clear poly and spin it. An inverter in the truck powers the extractor and all the water you want is right there. 
Actually I've never done this but it sounds like a great idea. 
I've always used my shop but it takes a day to clean it and Partition off the area. I use a rope that runs from side to side and hang clear poly over it and down both sides. A roll up door is on one end and a window with an a/c unit is on the opposite end and a poly tarp goes on the floor. It is a hassle to be honest. I poured a pad for a honey house when I built my house but have yet to build it. It sure would be nice to have a separate place for equipment and for extracting.


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## tomkat (Apr 27, 2014)

My Honey Room is in the basement currently. I have a kitchen down there and do all my crush and straining and extracting and bottling there. I am working on a press currently.
The Honey Room will be moved into an Amish shed soon.


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## RCorl (Mar 24, 2012)

A lot of these posts sound like they are right out of a book I've read: Everything I Want to Do Is Illegal, by Joel Salatin. He has the same struggles as a small farmer trying to sell his homegrown food locally. Its a great read, unless you are a bureaucrat, inspector, or Tysons Chicken affiliate.
BTW, kitchen, crush and strain, or cut comb.


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## beeeee (Apr 4, 2010)

U-haul rents a nice truck for cheap if you don't have many miles. Works great if you can keep the door closed.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

challenger said:


> Actually I've never done this but it sounds like a great idea.


Except if the water and soap is recirculated. The rinse water might be tap water but I wouldn't trust the wash water.


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## challenger (May 27, 2009)

Acebird said:


> Except if the water and soap is recirculated. The rinse water might be tap water but I wouldn't trust the wash water.


I agree - I would not use car wash water for anything that would come into contact with honey processing related items.
I am not a clean freak but I am not worried much about germs in honey so long as it is my honey. I extract in my shop where I do everything from woodworking to metal work and all types of repairs. I partition off an area in this shop and I am very aware of potential problems and I head them off. One poster mentioned sweat and it is hotter than the hinges of hell in NC when I extract. I am lucky that I can put the A/C on in this little portion of my shop because if I couldn't I don't know what I would do but I know I wouldn't be able to extract without climate control. Another poster mentioned rubber gloves. These would not work for me even if I was in an A/C environment. Maybe in the winter but otherwise the sweat would fill the gloves and pour out the cuffs. I personally would not want any particles or foreign material in my honey. Maybe NCbeek won't like this but someone putting a finger into a honey stream to taste it doesn't bother me. I wouldn't call it proper manners and I would not do this but having an issue with it prompts me to think that NCbeeks is indeed germophobic for sure. DO NOT go out to a restaurant is one thing I can say without hesitation if a finger in the honey is such a no-no. When I extract I feel I am in a very clean environment but when I bottle I make things cleaner and the honey goes into bottles and is capped right away-no sitting out without a cap on the bottle for more than seconds.
Personally I have a much bigger problem sharing my living space with my dog and I'll never get another one. The hair drives me crazy and I have a labradoodle that has hair not fur. He doesn't shed much at all but it is enough to frustrate the hell out of me. I know people that actually have their dog in bed with them when they sleep. This IMO is just disgusting period. 
One last note-wasn't the majority of honey sold in 2012 processed in china? You want to worry about a finger tasting honey? I wouldn't even want to guess at what the "honey" in china comes into contact with. I suspect that if the real/pure honey was removed from a bottle of chinese honey the level of the liquid in the jar wouldn't drop enough to notice.


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## iahawk (May 19, 2009)

We harvest in what we call our barn, a 20 X 24 2 story building in which I keep my tools, garden tractor, bee equipment (2nd floor). We usually do a couple medium supers at a time, using a very old 2 frame A.I. Root extractor. We clean (sweep and spray) the floor, set up a table with either newspaper or plastic tablecloth to do the uncapping. The honey goes from the extractor into a 5 gallon, double filtered pail. All equipment is sterilized and rinsed prior to use. I would not want the big old extractor in my kitchen, and another reason to do it in the barn is it is often pretty warm in the building in August or early September, when we extract. The honey flows well then. We take the pail into the kitchen for bottling, and typically put it initially into gallon containers. The honey really never comes into contact with other foreign matter, except what might be floating in the air but I would say that for my kitchen, dining room, basement, etc. as well. We use the barn later in the fall when we turn some of our apples into cider and sometimes process grapes there as well when I make wine. Since we don't sell our produce, I feel perfectly fine with our set-up.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Ah, x-nay the newspaper. It is blowing your whole concept of clean.


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## iahawk (May 19, 2009)

True, Acebird, but the only things coming in contact with both the honey and the paper are the de-capping blades. We should have a sterile pan to set them on when not using. We do set the wax scratcher in a pan.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

The inks, the machinery that makes the paper, the number of hands the paper comes across, all not good for cleanliness. You are better off with your own wooden table that has been urethaned and cleaned before and after use.


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## beehonest (Nov 3, 2011)

In the kitchen for me!


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

Acebird said:


> The inks, the machinery that makes the paper, the number of hands the paper comes across, all not good for cleanliness. You are better off with your own wooden table that has been urethaned and cleaned before and after use.


All this from the guy that said: 



Acebird said:


> I extract in a kitchen *full of crap* and any number of _*animal dander, hair, filthy objects *_from storage bins. Who knows what is in that kitchen at any given time.


Also, newspaper ink is a biodegradable soy-based product that is far less toxic than than peeling urethane chips in your honey. You do realize that Bayer first developed polyurathane in the '30s? Then the process was further refined by the likes of DuPont, BASF, Dow Chemical, Union Carbide, and Monsanto?

:digging:


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Newspaper that has not been touched is for most practical purposes sterile and only the outside ever gets touched by the delivery person... during the papermaking process and the printing process no humans have any reason to touch it.

http://www.axelspringer.de/en/artikel/cw_artikel_nv_en_166336.html


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Acebird said:


> Ah, x-nay the newspaper. It is blowing your whole concept of clean.


Ixnay onyay isthay erayplyay. Bryan, what do you think iahawk is going to do w/ that newspaper, eat it? I may be wrong, but I thought that maybe she was keeping honey and wax drippings off of her table and when done would simply wad up the paper and toss it in the garbage, not scrape honey off of it and into the container w/ the rest of the extracted honey.


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## challenger (May 27, 2009)

I was always told that newspaper was sterile and I still assume it is. That is until the outside is handled. Seems like a good type of liner as intended. Hey, they wrap fish in it right?
I don't personally get a newspaper. They may be fairly germ free but the content is enough to make anyone sick.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

I suppose this means that newspaper combines are ixnay as well.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Nabber how would newspaper get in the honey on the hive? Mark, read up on packing food products. Cardboard and newspaper is not allowed in a packing process. The fibers get airborne and the paper breeds germs, far from sterile. Do I think it would be a problem for honey, no. But if you are going to tout how clean your honey packing operation is you better not have cardboard or newsprint in the room. You are not suppose to have it in a restaurant kitchen preparing food but many do.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Who was touting how clean their honey packing operation is? Besides the fact that this was in the honey *extracting*​ area. But I get your drift.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> Who was touting how clean their honey packing operation is?


Many people do. And then there are those that go berzurk if you stick your finger in the honey. Must be they never ate home made bread or pizza.


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## challenger (May 27, 2009)

Acebird said:


> Many people do. And then there are those that go berzurk if you stick your finger in the honey. Must be they never ate home made bread or pizza.


Good point. "No, no, no, no...... stop it! Get your finger out of that honey you baboon! What kind of a beekeeper do you think I am anyway?" 
Really? Does our finger free honey man pass a roll with rubber gloves or tongs? Would he accept a jelly doughnut if I pass it over using my hairy knuckled fingers? Dare I even bring up sharing a drink or, God forbid, a community chip dip bowl? Oh, the desperate feeling of doom once the realization sinks in that the paper currency has come in contact with the flesh. 
Please pass me a drum stick.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

Acebird said:


> Cardboard and newspaper is not allowed in a packing process. The fibers get airborne and the paper breeds germs, far from sterile. Do I think it would be a problem for honey, no. But if you are going to tout how clean your honey packing operation is you better not have cardboard or newsprint in the room. You are not suppose to have it in a restaurant kitchen preparing food but many do.


Almost all prepared hamburgers, pizza, french fries, and Chinese take-out comes wrapped in paper or in a cardboard box.


Once again, all this from the guy who said:



Acebird said:


> I extract in a kitchen _*full of crap*_ and any number of _*animal dander, hair, filthy objects *_from storage bins. Who knows what is in that kitchen at any given time.



Crap, animal dander, hair, and filthy objects are not allowed in a packing process either.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Nabber86 said:


> Almost all prepared hamburgers, pizza, french fries, and Chinese take-out comes wrapped in paper or in a cardboard box.


I know pizza places are getting away form food grade cardboard but most other food items are packaged in food grade paper or cardboard that doesn't harbor germs and cardboard flees.


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## Millenia (Apr 8, 2014)

David LaFerney said:


> I would guess that you REALLY don't want to see sausage being made. Or food being prepared at all for that matter. Most things *are* touched by human hands at some point.


The only thing is, those things are all cooked afterwards. We eat honey raw. I would hope the finger sticker washed his hands first. If not, ewww...


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## Millenia (Apr 8, 2014)

My husband was doing some work on some equipment in the kitchen of a famous local restaurant/landmark. He found out what the secret ingredient was in their chili. The guy was stirring this big ole vat of chili and sweat was running off his face and dripping into the pot. I've never eaten there since.




challenger said:


> I agree - I would not use car wash water for anything that would come into contact with honey processing related items.
> I am not a clean freak but I am not worried much about germs in honey so long as it is my honey. I extract in my shop where I do everything from woodworking to metal work and all types of repairs. I partition off an area in this shop and I am very aware of potential problems and I head them off. One poster mentioned sweat and it is hotter than the hinges of hell in NC when I extract. I am lucky that I can put the A/C on in this little portion of my shop because if I couldn't I don't know what I would do but I know I wouldn't be able to extract without climate control. Another poster mentioned rubber gloves. These would not work for me even if I was in an A/C environment. Maybe in the winter but otherwise the sweat would fill the gloves and pour out the cuffs. I personally would not want any particles or foreign material in my honey. Maybe NCbeek won't like this but someone putting a finger into a honey stream to taste it doesn't bother me. I wouldn't call it proper manners and I would not do this but having an issue with it prompts me to think that NCbeeks is indeed germophobic for sure. DO NOT go out to a restaurant is one thing I can say without hesitation if a finger in the honey is such a no-no. When I extract I feel I am in a very clean environment but when I bottle I make things cleaner and the honey goes into bottles and is capped right away-no sitting out without a cap on the bottle for more than seconds.
> Personally I have a much bigger problem sharing my living space with my dog and I'll never get another one. The hair drives me crazy and I have a labradoodle that has hair not fur. He doesn't shed much at all but it is enough to frustrate the hell out of me. I know people that actually have their dog in bed with them when they sleep. This IMO is just disgusting period.
> One last note-wasn't the majority of honey sold in 2012 processed in china? You want to worry about a finger tasting honey? I wouldn't even want to guess at what the "honey" in china comes into contact with. I suspect that if the real/pure honey was removed from a bottle of chinese honey the level of the liquid in the jar wouldn't drop enough to notice.


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## lazy shooter (Jun 3, 2011)

On a small amount of honey, three deep frames, we found the kitchen to be very user friendly. I have a Maxant 3100P, at another apiary, but I have not made enough honey to put it to use, as of this writing.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Nabber86 said:


> Crap, animal dander, hair, and filthy objects are not allowed in a packing process either.


Only at acceptable levels. I have heard that there are tolerances for such things in some manufactured food.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Millenia said:


> The only thing is, those things are all cooked afterwards. We eat honey raw. I would hope the finger sticker washed his hands first. If not, ewww...


True, and BTW everyone should make a real effort to keep their honey as clean as possible - not only because we have a reputation to protect, but because one outbreak incident that was blamed on unsanitary honey house conditions would be bad on so many levels. But we almost have a clean fetish anymore. Food - even raw food - can be prepared and eaten outdoors over the ultimate dirt floor and still be clean and wholesome. If not we would have gone extinct long ago. 

I think we just over think things sometimes.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> Only at acceptable levels. I have heard that there are tolerances for such things in some manufactured food.


All manufactured foods Mark, and you could add to the list insect parts, mouse turds, and anything else that could turn your stomach. How about ecoli? Bound to be a little of that in there.


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