# workers tossing dead greyish bees out of hive - sign of starvation or??



## Snigglet (Apr 26, 2014)

Newbie learning -- I just noticed a worker taking a dead bee & dropping it outside the hive. After looking closely, there are quite a few (probably 10-15) on the ground. This hive has struggled with low honey stores all summer so I have fed them. I stopped about a week ago when I noticed they were capping honey.

But then I noticed the dead bees this am, so I did a quick inspection. There were bees head first in the honey cells, alive but eating. I put more feed in their hive & closed them up. They do have capped honey on almost each bar along the top. In fact, it is more than they have had all summer, but it still doesn't seem like much.

We have had some temps in the 90's this week & I provide them with quite a few safe water sources. The queen is alive & well. There is much less brood than I am accustomed to seeing but I think they are in transition from building the new colony & now are building honey stores???

The dead bees look youngish, & grey...I couldn't see anything amiss in the hive aside from the eating of honey. They stopped building comb when I stopped feeding them.

I guess my main question is do they toss out the young when the food is scarce?


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## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

They don't toss out the young to the best of my knowledge, but if a bee dies in the hive of any cause, even old age, they dump it off the front porch.


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## Snigglet (Apr 26, 2014)

I could be wrong, they may not be young bees - they are fully formed but they are grey...I guess they could just be the usual dead but I haven't seen hardly any dead bees in the months I have had these. I have them on a concrete slab so I can keep track of what they toss out of the hive.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Drone or worker!


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## beemilk (Sep 12, 2012)

Any significant amount of feces or spotting around the entrance?


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## Snigglet (Apr 26, 2014)

No feces & they are all worker bees. & now they aren't looking so grey, just regular color (I broke crack a contact lens so I am looking through OLD glasses to see so my vision is bad right now). 

I just witnessed a bee haul another out, it was still moving but it had it's tongue out - & I found other dead ones who had their tongues out -- isn't that a sign for starvation? Or maybe dehydration???


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

I have had a few bees just like that in all of my hives this year. In one swarm I caught about 30%+ of the bees died in that same manor. I never really got much of an answer and assumed pesticides maybe? Other hives in the same yard seemed unaffected.

I thought maybe tracheal mites could be the cause, but no one on here offered that up so I don't know. The tongue out on all of them seemed odd to me.


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## tacomabees (May 2, 2013)

Snigglet said:


> No feces & they are all worker bees. & now they aren't looking so grey, just regular color (I broke crack a contact lens so I am looking through OLD glasses to see so my vision is bad right now).
> 
> I just witnessed a bee haul another out, it was still moving but it had it's tongue out - & I found other dead ones who had their tongues out -- isn't that a sign for starvation? Or maybe dehydration???


Not likely dehydration... do they look anything like this picture...


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## BeeGora (Oct 22, 2013)

When they're in a dearth they'll toss out the drones, even the drone brood which is undeveloped and gray gets the boot. That would be my guess.


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## Snigglet (Apr 26, 2014)

No, definitely not like the photo Tacomabees (I'm down near Vanc, Wa btw -- assume you are in Tacoma). 
There are more death on the ground today, about the same amount (around 15 bees), all with their little tongues out. I am HOPING it is just that some are starving or this is a normal late summer thing. 

The bulk of them are not drones...but maybe some of the first ones I saw were grey drone brood? I know I saw 2 greyish ones orginally...maybe they are just kicking out the dead & the drone babies because they were short on food.

I watched one bee haul out another & I picked it up, it was still alive -- it's tongue was hanging out too  Poor girl!

My first colony died off within a month after getting them so I am always on alert for this new group!!!!

Thanks everyone for being so kind & helping we work through this!!! I am going to assume that as long as I don't see any increase in dead bee numbers that all is ok...I have seen some yellow jackets around the hive so I hope they aren't the cause, I am going to plug up one of the entrance holes today now that the heat has subsided here since I am back to feeding the girls again.


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

"I guess my main question is do they toss out the young when the food is scarce?"
They can cannabolize brood if they lack protein (cured pollen) or toss out young brood or drones if conditions warrant. I suspect heat. Is the hive in full sun, and are you loosing the bees' "refrigerated" air through a screened bottom board?


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## Buzzlightyear (Dec 4, 2013)

Do you notice any K-wing? A virus that causes their wings to unatach.
I had a couple of hives that were losing bees 10-15/day most of the summer and I think it was varroa causing the transmition of the Virus. Most were still moving, belly up and had their toungs out as well.


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## Snigglet (Apr 26, 2014)

I will double check Buzzlightyear but I have not seen any evidence of mites in my hive as of yet but I will give it a closer look since the rest of the symptoms are similar - the wings are intact on the dead bees. 

Thanks!!!


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## Buzzlightyear (Dec 4, 2013)

Google K wing picks. Wings will be intact but there will look like 2 wings one one side or 2 on each.
Normal wings look like one because they are connected. Once the bees are sick they come unhinged. Also look for deformed wings. Bees will crawl out of the cell and be kicked out because they are deformed, another virus transmitted by verroa.
Usually the only evidence you see will be the viruses that they transmit. I look very close at my bees and don't see any varroa but I do see them under my screened bottom board.
I've done one treatment with oxalic acid and will be doing some more this fall.


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## Snigglet (Apr 26, 2014)

OOoohh, I will look really close at the wings in the am after doing some images search for k wing...I hope I don't have that in my hive  Very good to know, thank you again Buzz


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## Buzzlightyear (Dec 4, 2013)

Suposidly once you get the verroa knocked back the viruses will reduce or diapear as well, if that is your problem.
May just be fall dirth. Some of my hives that had a lot of drone brood(foundationless) removed brood and chucked it out the front door.
Buzz


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

saw lots of drone brood in front of the hives this morning. Lots of dead drones in the grass a little further out. It's that time of the year.


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## Snigglet (Apr 26, 2014)

I checked all the dead for k-wing but didn't see any. I do have more dead bees today, maybe 20 on the ground. I am sweeping away the bees so I can check on the new batch of dead every time I go out.

I am now wondering if I have robbers - I've seen some tussling around the entrance & rolling on the ground. I closed up 2 of the 3 holes with screen & put a wet sheet over the hive which confused the pollen girls so I pulled that back for a while until they get the hang of the single opening, then I will put it back. 

I suspect I've had robbers all along, I may have been feeding the neighbor's bees  Hopefully that is my problem, I much prefer that over a virus!!!

I still see some grey little ones on the ground that were dropped today - their abdomens look greyish - not moldy or chalkbroodish...still not sure what they are, I will try to get a photo once the colony gets used to all my modifications.

Still no dead drones, I only have about 5% drone in this hive, if that.


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## Buzzlightyear (Dec 4, 2013)

Yes could definatly be robbing.
May have to put on a robbing screen.


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## Snigglet (Apr 26, 2014)

Now that I've closed up 2 of the 3 holes with screen, there is some serious fighting outside & a lot of wrestling on the ground...I think I will close up the last hole overnight to see how many robbers show up in the am...poor things, I suspect this has been going on a while & probably why my bees haven't hardly stored any capped honey...just hope I can get them safe & on track before winter!!

Everyone has been SO helpful!! Keep the ideas coming -- this thread has helped me work through a number of scenarios that has given me tons of insight & understanding!!


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## Snigglet (Apr 26, 2014)

Update: I blocked with screen 2 of the 3 holes & then a box screen over all of them. It took them a few days to all adjust to the change but the robbing seems to have stopped for the most part - no more dead bees & fighting, etc. That was definitely my problem all along & it may have been going on for a few weeks at least. I would see all the action around the hive & proudly declare "those are orientation flights"...well, now I know the difference, HA!!!!

I did a full inspection today & I am THRILLED! Not only were the bees very calm, but they had capped honey and nectar on all bars. There was a good amount of pollen as well. The queen was wandering around but there is not a lot of covered brood. I hope that they are just in a lull for brood making...if it isn't capped honey, I am worried about brood numbers!!!!

About a week ago we heard the queen tooting so I was on alert for problems but so far so good. She is fat & happy today! 

Anyways, thanks for all the help & I thought I would finish off this thread with an update so that others might learn from it.


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## msscha (Jan 4, 2014)

Snigglet said:


> No feces & they are all worker bees. & now they aren't looking so grey, just regular color (I broke crack a contact lens so I am looking through OLD glasses to see so my vision is bad right now).
> 
> I just witnessed a bee haul another out, it was still moving but it had it's tongue out - & I found other dead ones who had their tongues out -- isn't that a sign for starvation? Or maybe dehydration???


This is exactly what I witnessed this morning!


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