# Monsanto triple stack corn



## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

No corn expresses neonics in their pollen. Triple stack is Round up Ready, corn borer and corn rootroom protection.


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## canoemaker (Feb 19, 2011)

When I google "neonicitinoids in corn pollen" I get an abundance of articles/studies showing the presence of neonicitinoids in corn pollen at toxic levels to bees. The substance has been found in bees and in their stored pollen. After reading several of the studies, I am more concerned than I was when I made my original post.


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## abejorro (May 9, 2011)

...also interested here, since I'm in a corn intensive county as well.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

JRG13 said:


> No corn expresses neonics in their pollen. Triple stack is Round up Ready, corn borer and corn rootroom protection.


JRG13, you might want to follow this link:

Monsanto, Dow get OK for new biotech corn 

A copy and paste of a portion of that post copied and pasted here:

*Notes:
Implications for bees: potential transgenic source of neonics.

SmartStax corn seed combines Monsanto's triple-stack technology
with Dow's Herculex insect control and Bayer's Liberty Link herbicide
resistance.

The Herculex I trait was the first in a new generation of Better Bt
choices from Pioneer.

All Pioneer hybrids with Herculex traits are treated with PonchoÂ® 250
insecticide seed treatment to helpÂ stand establishment and
seedling growth.

In agriculture, a seed treatment or seed dressing is a chemical,
typically antimicrobial or fungidal, with which seeds are treated (or
"dressed") prior to planting.

The active ingredient of Poncho is clothianidin, also in the nicotinoid family.*

Bayer's own link to Poncho/clothianidin: Clothianidin (Poncho®, Poncho®Beta, Prosper®)

A copy and paste from Bayer's link:

*Main Formulations
FS: Poncho (clothianidin 600 g a.i./l)
FS: Poncho Beta (clothianidin 400 + betacyfluthrin 53,34 g a.i./l)
FS: Prosper (clothianidin 120 + thiram 120 + carboxin 56 + metalaxyl 4 g a.i./l)*

The link within this article is dead, but the original linked-to news article can be read here: http://www.stltoday.com/business/mo...cle_d6679a80-b47a-5be5-b66a-12f802027157.html

A copy and past from the St Louis Post Dispatch article: 

_*Because the companies are integrating already-developed traits, the companies will be able to "put SmartStax on a fast-track," said Jerome Peribere, CEO of Indianapolis-based DowAgroSciences, a unit of Dow Chemical Co.

The approval by the Environmental Protection Agency and Canadian Food Inspection Agency is especially noteworthy because regulators agreed to reduce the "refuge area" for SmartStax.

The EPA currently prohibits farmers in the U.S. Corn Belt from planting insect-resistant corn on 20 percent of their acres (50 percent in the Cotton Belt) to guard against developing pesticide tolerance in bugs.*_

Monsanto and it's "affiliates" are notorious for blowing smoke at anyone that questions their products. They can do *no wrong*. :waiting:

Ed


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Since honeybees will range up to 4 miles (a foraging area of about 50 square miles)and given that corn is the most widely planted crop in the US I think it is safe to assume that most bees will have some exposure to corn. This is a controversial topic and don't expect consensus in the advice you receive. The truth in my mind, though, is that there is no simple answer to this question because there are so many different known factors that affect hive health that trying to extrapolate the effects of a virtually undetectable unknown is impossible. Keep this in mind though. Many, many beekeepers are successful raising good bees around many thousands of acres of corn while some beekeepers maintain it must be the reason their hives are struggling. My advice is to find a location that suits you, follow good beekeeping practices and decide for yourself


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

According to this link, clothianidin's safety for Honeybees hasn't been EPA tested!

http://www.earthfiles.com/news.php?ID=1972&category=Environment


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

I said expressed in their pollen, meaning plant made. That does not include residues from seed treatments so you would have to ask the farmer if they were treated or not. Smart stacks and triple stack isn't necessarily the same product either I don't believe.


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## canoemaker (Feb 19, 2011)

Neonicitinoids _do_ migrate through the plant tissues. As study from Iowa State University in April of this year showed that 50% of the pollen samples from the corn in their study contained neonicitinoids. That is months after the the dust clouds from planting the corn have passed.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

I'm not arguing where the pesticides end up, just that he needs to ask the farmer if the seeds were treated or not.


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## canoemaker (Feb 19, 2011)

JRG13 said:


> I'm not arguing where the pesticides end up, just that he needs to ask the farmer if the seeds were treated or not.


I did ask the farmer this afternoon. He said the corn seed was treated with *Poncho*, Bayer's trade name for Clothianidin. It is the most toxic to honey bees of all the neonicitinoids.


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## cklspencer (Jun 21, 2010)

Thought I would just share a quick link on some info you can watch. Its not just the pollen or the corn you have to worry about but the plants around it as well. http://www.extension.org/pages/63369/protecting-honey-bees-during-corn-and-soybean-planting-season


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

I watched that documentary...Disapearance of the Bees or something like that last night. Very eye opening about the whole systemic seed treatment. They were looking mainly at the causes of CCD. The main point driven home was that FDA/EPA does not care about sublethal doses and will not take a precautionary stand as Europe does on the matter.


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## abejorro (May 9, 2011)

I had the opportunity to paddle our local river a couple of summers ago, after a 'fish kill', with the regional EPA fish expert/scientist. As he floated the river, he autopsied lots of fish on the bow of his kayak. Afterwards, as we drove through the beautiful countryside - dotted with lovely yards, gardens and farmer's fields - I point-blank asked him what he thought was killing the fish. W/out skipping a beat, he said something like "all of this". He then proceeded to explain that people want a magic bullet for a specific disease or agent. He believed that first there was overall environmental stress - caused by all the stuff (he could rattle it off) we put on our lawns, farmer's fields, what we wash our cars with, etc. etc. - and then there was perhaps an increased susceptibility to a specific culprit *which may have not been an issue otherwise*.

The important point being that even when a specific agent is said to have a low enough threshold toxicity, it's important to look at it's role in the 'bigger picture'. Unfortunately that's often too complex to legislate, and proving any sort of 'tipping point' is next to impossible until the damage is done.


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## Riskybizz (Mar 12, 2010)

I feel so much safer now after reading the latest interview in this months ABJ by Jerry Hayes assuring us that we just need to trust him and give Monsanto the benefit of the doubt in regards to our ecological welfare. Thank you Jerry for joining ranks. I'll sleep much better tonight knowing your on board with them and looking out for the welfare of the beekeeping industry. Maybe Monsanto will buy out Dadant next?


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## abejorro (May 9, 2011)

Riskybizz said:


> I feel so much safer now after reading the latest interview in this months ABJ by Jerry Hayes assuring us that we just need to trust him and give Monsanto the benefit of the doubt in regards to our ecological welfare. Thank you Jerry for joining ranks. I'll sleep much better tonight knowing your on board with them and looking out for the welfare of the beekeeping industry. Maybe Monsanto will buy out Dadant next?



... actually much more interesting is that they have in fact bought Beelogics. Whether that supports rumors that they would like to 'own' a GM bee which works in conjunction with their pesticides (same as their seeds do) might be a stretch. Or not...


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## canoemaker (Feb 19, 2011)

I plan to move my bees before the corn tassels. I have another yard that is miles from the closest corn. The move still doesn't address the residual chemicals in the soil that can migrate into other flowering plants.
As a side note, the farmer was oblivious to the fact that any of the chemicals he is using are toxic to honey bees.


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