# Cloake system queen raising



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I leave the entrance the original direction and shake all the bees (except the queen) into the top box. The field bees return to the bottom and the nurse bees stay in the top. Otherwise it's about the same system.

If you take a FWOF and put a bound excluder under it you'd have the "Cloake" board.

http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bush/images/FWOF1.jpg


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## BWrangler (Aug 14, 2002)

Hi Guys,

I like the Cloake method. It can be modified so that queens can easily be raised with palletized bees. But it can require more physical work than a seperate queenless, free flying, starter finisher, especially if things go wrong.

If brood/frames need to be rotated to keep the queen laying, the whole hive must be disturbed which can offset the advantages somewhat.

Regards
Dennis


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## wayacoyote (Nov 3, 2003)

Fusion,
Just got my cloake board and I'm thrown by the separation of queen from brood you mentioned at G-1 week. As I understand it, and as you too mentioned, this is to draw the nurse bees up into the top body to increase its population. However, if this is done a full week in advance, then the eggs the queen has laid earlier in the week will have hatched and lured nurses back down... or so it seems to me.


Anyway, a very good timeline, from what I can tell (having never used it).

As a non-graffer, what recommendations on the use of a cloake board for rearing a few (say 3-4) queens do you all have?

Waya


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

For three or four queens, I'd set up a starter/finisher in a five frame nuc or even less. I've done three or four queens in a two frame medium nuc for a starter/finisher and they did well.


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## wayacoyote (Nov 3, 2003)

Thanks, Michael
You read my other post where I mentioned that I'm trying to do this a bit early in the season, so to capitalize on the warmth a full hive can provide, I did as you just mentioned, but set the 4-frames in a deep above the hive. This was accomplished by centering the frames over the double-screened hole of the inner cover. Follower boards flanked the frames to constrict the space.

Oh, and they were given diluted honey in a frame feeder. Once the cells were capped, then I moved them off to a nuc for breeding. Now, if I had lucked up, which I didn't, and had some queen cells on more than one frame, I could have made a few 2-frame nucs. but I'm afaid that jumping right into the nucs so early would be Too early for what i'm trying to accomplish.

Now the reason I'm asking about the timing of things, is that I'm trying to understand the principles behind the timing. I'm adapting the convinience of the Cloake/ FWOF system to my experiment.

Waya


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I tried too early last year. I promised myself I wouldn't start before May 1st this year, but then the mild winter and the pollen patties at Christmas are tempting me.







I like the idea of only getting the dark drones (beating out the Italian drones) but I've always had trouble having the resources to get good queens early, especialy with the ferals, who usually wait to build up until they have a flow going.


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## Bob Russell (Sep 9, 2003)

Fusion,Waya
>I leave the entrance in the original direction and shake all the bees (except the queen) into the top box.

A variation of the above to ensure you have accounted for all queens should there be more than one is to shake all bees(no looking for queens)into the bottom box.Select about 3 frames of young brood and eggs and transfer to center of the top box.Place excluder over bottom box,replace top box with young brood and leave to next day for nurse bees to move up.

>If you take a FWOF and put a bound excluder under it you'd have the "Cloake" board.

Whether you are raising cells in cups or naturally all you need to do to induce cell raising is to place a sheet of news paper over the excluder,the rest is automatic.This eliminates the requirement for any special board.There is an optimum time of the season when just the excluder will induce cell raising on its own.

There was a "Mini Starter-Finisher" that may be of interest that was published in the American Bee Journal Vol 145 No.6 June 2005 pages 503-505.
Great to see the interest in raising your own queens.


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## wayacoyote (Nov 3, 2003)

Hey, Thanks Bob for the encouragement and the tips. I'm trying what Michael was mentioning. That is to encourage my bees to breed toward one color. Why? I don't know; just to see if it can be done. there is so much mixing of bee races here. And I live within an area where there are no other beekeepers for at least 4 miles radius which gives me an opportunity to try and pull in genes from the ferals...

What kind of race(s) do you have Down Under?

Waya


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## wayacoyote (Nov 3, 2003)

I think I've got it after sitting down with my notes at an all-I-can eat Chinese restaurant... Strange, I can't eat as much as I used to. A good thing  

So, After reading lots of literature on the various methods from Dave Cushman's site to Beesource posts to Michael Bush's methods to ......

See if this will work for ME (remember, no grafting, no Jenter system; just old-fashion bee-made "emergency" cells).

Day 1. Move all open brood and eggs above the queen excluder of the Cloake/ FWOF system; put queen in the lower with capped brood. Leave the Cloake open so nurses will move up. Reverse hive and close lower entrance (typical of Cloake operation).

Day 2. Close off the two "hives" to induce top to think it is queenless. Open lower entrance so bees there can fly.

** Question: someone mentioned that you can "pull down" the lower cell wall of a brood cell to induce workers to turn it into a queen cell. Did I read this right? If so, this could be done on day two with cells still containing eggs so that queen cells will be spaced out for easier cutting out. **

Day 3. Insure queen cups are started and reunite "hives" by removing the divider. 

** Michael, from what I read on 2 locations where you gave your system, it appeared as though you kept them separated for 3 days (close on Day 3 after queen is closed in the Jenter box; open on Day 6). Is that right? If so, would it be relevant for me to wait so long before reuniting? If so, how so?

Day 4. Remove any capped queen cells as they were started from too-old larvae.

*** How does that sound so far?

Day 7. Reset as on Day 1 with open brood above and closed brood below Cloake. Spin entrances if necessary to equalize. ---> I'm about to throw a loop! Get ready! 

Day 8. Reinsert divider into Cloake board to make upper body again feel queenless. This is to prep them for spliting into nucs.

Day 9. Make mating nucs with a frame of brood and a frame of stores and a queen cell from upper body. 
Remove Cloake system and let parent hive recouperate.

*** How does the last part sound? Am I missing something? 

*** Could I time this so that pulling off frames for mating nucs qualify as a "cut-down" split? 

*** Will the parent hive suffer too much from this?

Thanks 
Waya


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## Bob Russell (Sep 9, 2003)

Waya
In the North Island of New Zealand we have had only two races of bees with no imports over the last 50 odd years until 2 years ago when Carniolan semen was imported.Until then there was only the Italian and the Apis mellifera mellifera (European dark bee)The later have survived the varroa destructor to date one way or another.In my own varroa resistant project the darker strain have shown the most resistance when measured against the yellow Italian.It will be interesting as to whether the Carniolan will be more dominant over either of the other two breeds.It is early days yet as the carniolan will only be becoming pure about now in the breeding programe of the importer.The early crosses have been stroppy,they strike first without warning.This may only be a temporary situation until purity of strain.Until now I have had a couple of feral swarms showing carniolan and have had visits from the carniolan drones to my commercial hives.To early yet to determine any pattern of domiance if any.The late matings this Autumn should give some idea now the Cariolan is well distibuted around the province.


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