# Queen balled and killed after marking her



## Velbert (Mar 19, 2006)

if you seen them balling her you could have got her out and placed her in a queen cage and reintroduced her.

what did you mark her with?
is your colonie hot tempered? may have led to this

so times i have seen them start balling the queen from just checking the colonie.

i have read that some times it starts out to protect her then things goes wrong.


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## kevinva (Apr 21, 2008)

I didn't react quick enough to save her. 

Testers enamel paint.

No, it was a really week colony and I was planning to replace her in two weeks. I've been practicing marking on drones and workers. I finally started marking queens. This was the 2nd one I marked. First one went good, second one had this happen. 

Next one I will mark her, maybe leave her in the cage for a few minutes on top of the frame and then introduce her back in.


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## Daniel Wasson (Jun 2, 2010)

How long did you let the paint dry? I am betting that the fumes from the paint had a little to do with the reaction to the queen.


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## cdanderson (May 26, 2007)

I dont know if its the best thing to do. When I mark a queen and let the paint dry a minute, I place her back on the frame and give the area a very light mist from my sugarwater spray bottle. It seems to give them something else to think about.


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## BerkeyDavid (Jan 29, 2004)

I agree with Wasson I am thinking the paint wasn't dry


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

I had been using a white Posca paint marker to mark my queens. I always return queens to their hives, after any handling, especially after marking, by releasing them on a frame occupied with bees and laid flat. I release her where I can watch how the bees treat her after being handled. With the Posca paint I never had a single incident of "balling". Then I decided to try Testors enamel and I've had to rescue and temporarily cage five out of six queens that I marked with Testors paint. I have decided to return to using the Posca paint marker.


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## dmpower (Nov 7, 2010)

I have only marked 4 queens and all of them I marked with Testors enamel paint marker. I've never had a bad reaction. The only thing you have to be careful with is the amount of paint that can come out of the pen, and to make sure the queen has time to dry.
You can also spray the queen and the area of return, or the whole hive for that matter, with vanilla scented sugar water. I've been told by an older beek that it helps mask scents as well as slow them down with the sugar water.
Good luck!!


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## valleyman (Nov 24, 2009)

I'm with Joseph on this, he has marked more than a few queens. Why chance it when Posca is available. Enamel can't be good for the queen as it has chemicals to make it dry. Paint thinner.


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## D Coates (Jan 6, 2006)

I tried nail polish one time, the first time 4 years ago, and the queen disappeared. I'd forgotten how much nail polish stinks but was reminded of it when I was painting her. I let her sit for a few minutes, then reintroduced her. I watched her figuring there'd be a bad reaction becuase of the smell but there was nothing. As I took the nuc for a show and tell at my son's school I realized there was no queen. I should have known better, but the lesson was learned. I've use Posca or Testors pens (I've got both) ever since. I only mark the laying queens. I've found the virgins have a lower rate of survival if marked. Is this due to smell, and or becuase they are more visible to preditors? I don't know, but I learned not to mark them until I see eggs.


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## af_newbie (Feb 9, 2011)

How long was she out? I marked my queens but I only let them out for 2-3 minutes, just enough to dry the marking pen.
Maybe she smelled foreign to them.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

I also only mark them after they swell up and start laying. Then if I see them later and they're not laying, I know that if they're marked, they were laying at one time.


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## wkinne (Jul 17, 2010)

How long between Queens? It might be that you had some of the first Queens smell on your hands and confused the bees into thinking she was not their Queen?


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

No more than ten minutes between queens, usually much less, I sometimes use the marking tube and sometimes just hold them in my fingers, it depends on how much each individual queen resists being finger-held. I just marked a half-dozen queens, this morning, I used my white, water-based Posca marker -- no queens were bothered by their bees after immediately returning them to their mating nucs.


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## wkinne (Jul 17, 2010)

If you ever painted testers on yourself you would never put it on a Queen. It can burn and it peels off after a while, my wife and I once painted the face of an unwanted drunk that passed-out on our couch, after seeing what that did to his face, I would never allow it near my bees. He had burn like marks where ever we had painted him and they lasted a couple weeks, not good.


Wayne


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## kevinva (Apr 21, 2008)

All

Thanks for the responses and this has been helpfull. Some key points I'm taking away from this.

1. Always place her back on the frame.
2. Wait a few minutes for paint to dry.
3. I have bought some of those marking pens so I will try those instead of the paint.

I'll give it a go again next week.


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## lcl (Jul 28, 2011)

Joseph Clemens said:


> I had been using a white Posca paint marker to mark my queens. I always return queens to their hives, after any handling, especially after marking, by releasing them on a frame occupied with bees and laid flat. I release her where I can watch how the bees treat her after being handled. With the Posca paint I never had a single incident of "balling". Then I decided to try Testors enamel and I've had to rescue and temporarily cage five out of six queens that I marked with Testors paint. I have decided to return to using the Posca paint marker.


Hi Joseph, What tip does your Posca Paint Marker have? Broad/Medium/Fine/Extra Fine?


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

My markers are "uni POSCA Fine Line". I shake them up real good, then gently poke them onto a concrete block until the paint tip is quite wet with paint, then I wipe off excess paint onto an old cotton towel. Once I've started a new pen like this, I usually only need to shake it a little before each new period of use.


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## heaflaw (Feb 26, 2007)

Joseph Clemens said:


> My markers are "uni POSCA Fine Line".


Where do I buy these?


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## lcl (Jul 28, 2011)

heaflaw said:


> Where do I buy these?


I just ordered the complete 5 colors set for about half the price others are selling them for from Durable Supply: www.durablesupply.com
They should get here this week...

LCL


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