# Quilt Box



## ralittlefield (Apr 25, 2011)

Do you mean a box filled with insulation/shavings? I do not see how that would aid ventilation in the summer.


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## KRW11 (May 14, 2015)

Maybe my thinking is off? I was thinking that the heat from the hive in the summer would be allowed to vent up through the box and shavings , similar to the way the moisture is allowed to vent and be absorbed by the same box in the winter?


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## Mbalboa (Apr 21, 2014)

Some people keep their quilt boxes on during summer. It improves ventilation compared to not having any top ventilation. You also can control the ventilation by removing shavings if you want to.


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## Houstonbees (Jul 7, 2014)

Hello from Houston,Tx. I've been using Warre hives that have an insulation quilt on top of the topmost brood chamber, under the roof. Seems to work well in summer, I've not noticed any overheating or comb collapse even during the hottest summers so far.


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## ralittlefield (Apr 25, 2011)

I would think that the best purpose for a quilt box would be to help keep in heat, and absorb moisture. It seems to me that it does this by restricting ventilation, not by aiding it.


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## Mbalboa (Apr 21, 2014)

The quilt box works by allowing warm air to slowly flow up through it such that the condensation forms on the bottom surface of the inner cover or whatever is above the quilt. The moisture then drips back down and is absorbed by the shavings. The holes in the side of the quilt box allow ventilation across the box, which dries the shavings in the process.


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## ralittlefield (Apr 25, 2011)

Mbalboa said:


> The quilt box works by allowing warm air to slowly flow up through it such that the condensation forms on the bottom surface of the inner cover or whatever is above the quilt. The moisture then drips back down and is absorbed by the shavings. The holes in the side of the quilt box allow ventilation across the box, which dries the shavings in the process.


Do you think that it allows enough ventilation in the summer when the bees are trying to get rid of excess moisture from curing honey?


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## Mbalboa (Apr 21, 2014)

I guess it all depends on how hot the hive is. In direct sun in july, maybe not. My hives are in scattered sunlight at midday. I also have a small upper entrance that is part of my quilt box. It seems that this definitely proves adequate ventilation in my case. Last summer I removed my quilt for a few days, and the bees immediately began to fan the lower entrance, which they were not doing before.

In any event, I don't believe that keeping your quilt on will _hurt_ ventilation.


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## laketrout (Mar 5, 2013)

I think my quilt box's do a great job in the winter , just peaked inside yesterday to see how the bricks were holding up and there was a nice mound of bee's on the sugar and the top of the shavings were pretty damp . I don't run a inner cover with the quilt box , so the inside of the top cover was wet from condensation . As far as summer time use I would think a good upper entrance along with your normal lower entrance would provide better ventilation and you wouldn't have to bother removing the quilt box every time you work the hive all summer long .


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## KRW11 (May 14, 2015)

Thanks for all the responses! I believe I'll continue to use the quilt boxes this summer, I often wondered about the inner cover and why I even needed it? It seems to trap moisture in the winter and trap heat in the summer, although i don't believe this to be much of an issue where I live except a few brief periods in July and August?


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## Mbalboa (Apr 21, 2014)

I believe the reason that inner covers exist is because if they weren't there, the bees would propolize the outer cover to the hive, and it would be difficult to remove because of the overhang. Basically, it's difficult to get a hive tool up under the overhang and the inner cover solves this problem. At least, that's what I've read. I remove my inner covers when using quilts.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

I am surprised that enjambres has not posted. I believe she has left hers on all summer. Remember bees thermoregulate by evaporative cooling (like a swamp cooler) That is what allows them to keep brood rearing temperature at ~94 F even though it could be over 100 F outside temp. More air circulation would not be an asset there, would it. The water to be discarded from drying down nectar absorbs heat in the process. Sometimes what "stands to reason" as being so, actually is not. JWChestnut had an interesting discourse about how excess ventilation in high ambient situations actually hurts the bees cooling game.

I dont leave mine on in the summer because they are not designed to be easy off/on but in my area we very, very seldom exceed 90F


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## herbhome (Oct 18, 2015)

It gets quite hot here in the summer. When I see bees bearding outside to get out of the hot hive I remove the shavings and it seems to help. I believe a quilt top is a vast improvement over a wooden inner cover for ventilation.


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## Mbalboa (Apr 21, 2014)

More air movement over the water would increase the rate of evaporation, which would increase the efficiency of cooling with respect to time. 

In the case where it's warmer outside, the swamp cooler method still works to an extent because additional energy is removed from the hive from the latent heat of vaporization. Of course, there are limits to this, but I'm still in favor of the quilt box year round. 

I'm interested to hear enjambres' input.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

It would take close measurement or good theoretical prediction to know where the most efficient path is for the given temperatures and relative humidity. At some point an increase in flow of high temperature and virtually saturated air will lose its evaporative cooling effect. I think JW used the windows open with the air conditioner analogy but having evaporative cooling effect is not a very parallel example.

I wish I had taken a picture one day of a hive entrance where the bees were lined up fanning; one side of the entrance bees were pointed out and the other half they were pointed in. What, in physics theory, would be the explanation of that behavior.

Even where air temperature is higher than hive temperature the shavings quilt is an insulator against thermal gain on the top. The quilt may not work as an evaporative cooler because it may not be wet by the moisture from nectar. I have not really worked out whether the winter effect harnesses any of the change of state energy to the bees advantage but I think that potential is pretty small potatoes.

I am interested too in enjambres take on the quilts in summer. I sure would not dismiss lightly, the possible benefits. I sure am a believer in them as a wintering aid in our cold climate.


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## Mbalboa (Apr 21, 2014)

Crofter, I think a quilt provides more ventilation than no top entrance/ventilation, which is why I like them in summer. But you're right, the quilt provides an insulator against heat loss, though I wonder if the increased convection offsets the decrease in conduction. What do you think? 

I've never seen the bees fan in both directions. I guess at some point you can't push any more air inside the hive if it has no exit. Is that what you think they were doing?


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## capitalbeesupply (Jul 28, 2013)

KRW11 said:


> This winter I added quilt boxes to all my hives and it appears to working great. At 10 degrees with below zero windchill the bees are not clustered at all, and now I am wondering why I couldn't use the quilt box all through the summer as well for ventilation? Has anyone ever tried this?


Depends on the design of your quilt box. If you have screen in the bottom, which most do, and too much bee space the bees may burr comb it to the frames immediately below....then you go to pull it off and proceed to destroy the screen...


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

I am not sure exactly what you have in mind. I think insulation can either increase or decrease convection depending on the location of the heat source. That can switch from being the bees activity inside or solar or ambient conditions outside the hive. It can insulate against heat loss or against heat uptake. If relative benefits change at different times of day, the average net benefit probably makes it of little concern for the middle of the road beekeepers. I am fringe on the extremes of cold in winter and spring with low night temperatures well into June. Last week of June - first week of July is key swarm time here, so keeping some insulation on for a while is probably of benefit in my case.

I thought there was something very interesting going on with the bees apparent directional fanning. I usually have an upper entrance about 3/8 by four inches up top when the bees are drying honey but they dont seem to fan there. It would be interesting to test temperatures and RH and direction of flow at the various entrance positions. There is probably many many things around and about our hives that could be fine tuned. The bees have endless possibility for experimenting!


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## KRW11 (May 14, 2015)

Thanks for the info, I have a full 2" thick candy board directly below my screen


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