# Bad Honey Gate



## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

Doesn't Mann Lake have steel ones?


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## NowThen (Nov 26, 2008)

Funny that you brought this one up, ODFRANK: I finished bottling almost a month ago, but have been stewing over this darn gate ever since. I have one of these purchased from Mann-Lake back in 2009. It was part of a bucket / gate / strainer combo. It's not a terrible leaker, but it drips just enough at odd places on the gate to screw things up. I've tried different flow rates, different bucket angles, different closure rates to no avail. I have added the inconvenient step of wiping the top and bottom of the gate with a paper towel after every 2 or 3 jars.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

This is a long shot and not likely the case but occasionally overtightening can bow the gate and take sealing pressure off the center portion. Tighter on the wingnuts not necessarily more leakproof. I have several from mann lake that do not leak but not sure if they are the identical construction.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

I just hand tighten mine and no issues, plastic ones from ML and I try not to crank down on them.


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## Myron Denny (Sep 27, 2009)

You might try replaceing the "O-ring" or rubbing some vaseline on your "O-ring".


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

For a fellow with high end uncapping and extracting equipment, I find it surprising that you bottle with a plastic gate. Maxant and every supply outfit sell dripless valves. While they cost a bit more, if you are bottling more than a few gallons they are a bargain.


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

beemandan said:


> For a fellow with high end uncapping and extracting equipment, I find it surprising that you bottle with a plastic gate.


High end? :lpf:


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## Beesrme (Feb 4, 2011)

OD, Are you referring to the old Molasses valves that are made from cast iron and have a brass or copper insert in them with a handle to operate by just pulling it up and push it down to close them? If that is what you are looking for they are still around. Tom


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Charlie B said:


> High end? :lpf:





odfrank said:


> the Cowan, extractor and spinner are worth thousands of dollars, my extracting room cost thousands of dollars, and my real estate is worth 1.3 million.


Sounded high end to me….at least high enough that a plastic honey gate for bottling was a surprise.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Charlie B said:


> High end? :lpf:


I couldn't say it better.

I have sites that produce some one and two box crops which bypass my larger tanks and get bottled from buckets.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

>OD, Are you referring to the old Molasses valves that are made from cast iron and have a brass or copper insert in them with a handle to operate by just pulling it up and push it down to close them? If that is what you are looking for they are still around. Tom

I have those also which I like, but Kelly stainless tanks in the '70s used to come with guillotine type cast heavy gates, too big for buckets. I don't see those sold any more. I have several spares if I ever need them. They sometimes spit a black goober which I suspect is from wrong metals blackening the honey at the gate. You can see a white painted one on the center tank in this pic.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Why are you using galvanized pipe on honey equipment?


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## Beesrme (Feb 4, 2011)

OD I see what you are referring to now I used to see those around when I first started keeping bees in Santa Clara County. I remember a guy names Joe Nulth had must have been a good dozen plus or more had them set up on stands around his extracting room about the ht. of a bucket or square 60lb metal can would pour his honey into them let it set until the wax and junk would come up top then draw off the honey thru the gate. Did all his uncapping by hand used a electric knife and small extractor.

Most of the extractors made use a cast iron flange on the side of the stainless tank I have heard that the new rules require that even pumps need to be stainless. I hate to think what those will cost. Tom


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Barry said:


> Why are you using galvanized pipe on honey equipment?


Because it has worked great since 1975. If it ain't broke don't fix it.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

I'm not concerned about it working, I'm concerned about it not being food grade, especially since there are ways to make it food grade.


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## mmmooretx (Jun 4, 2012)

http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/1-1_2-Perfect-Gate/productinfo/515/
http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/Stainless-Steel-Honey-Gate-1-1_2/productinfo/195/

The first link is stainless and the second is a different style.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

How does the stainless gate attach to a bucket?


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Barry said:


> I'm not concerned about it working, I'm concerned about it not being food grade, especially since there are ways to make it food grade.


I tried plastic, it jumps around from the pumping and drowns the whole honey room in pressurized honey when it blows. Stainless pipe and fittings that I would need are prohibitively expensive. My galvanized pipes look the same inside as they did 35+ years ago brand new. The honey only stays in the pipes for a few seconds. There are millions/billions of people whose drinking water comes through and sits in galvanized pipes for weeks. Many of those pipes are so corroded the water barely passes through. I clean sprinkler nozzles and valves for a living and daily get to to see what comes though San Francisco Hetch Hetchy water, considered some of the best city water in the world. Not to mention the chlorine, fluorine, chloramine and god knows what else is in it. Ever kill your tropical fish with the same chloramined water you drink? Ever hear of galvanized pipes ever harming someone? It's like backflow preventers. The government requires them for billions of dollars a year, but how many backflow incidents have you heard of? Are the chemicals that could leach from Camcote safer than the what could leach from steel pipes?


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## Beesrme (Feb 4, 2011)

OD I have a source for stainless pipe from a cannery it comes in various lengths sizes are mostly 1 1/2 to 2 inches dia. most have flange fittings for clamping sometimes I have extra so if you want I will try and collect more from my source and you are welcome to it. ( This is not an open invitation to any one else.) Send me a message if you want me to try to get the extra all it cost me is honey for the guys in the yard. Tom


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

Olly,

Please take Beesrme up on this as we don't want to run our honey through that nasty pipe.


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## NowThen (Nov 26, 2008)

I should not have posted my original reply to this thread... In thinking about this some more, I more than likely wrecked my gate by running the bucket through the dishwasher. The heat could easily have warped any of the plastic components. And, in thinking about it some more, that was a real dumb-arsed move...


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

Use the " bee washer " next time.


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## ekrouse (Aug 26, 2004)

I have about 2 dozen of the exact gates you show and am looking to buy more. They are the best I have found for the smaller producer (500 lbs or less). I put one on every 5-gallon bucket so its ready to use right out of the hot box. I don't mess with transferring to a bottling tank. I do have one of the dripless brass gates that cost $100+ that I would use on a 30-gallon bottling tank, but since I have 3 varietal honeys I would need 3 of those big tanks! 5-gal buckets are much more flexible since I only liquify 5-gallons at a time as needed. THE SECRET TO USING THESE GATES WITHOUT DRIPPING IS AS FOLLOWS:

1) These are right hand gates, so you must use your right hand.
2) Place your index finger behind the body of the gate where the head of the bolt sits.
3) Place your thumb on the gate handle.
4) SQUEEZE YOU FINGERS TOGETHER as you open the gate, fill the jar and close the gate. Do not stop squeezing your fingers together while the gate is open.

It's the same technique as using scissors that don't cut. If you squeeze the two halves together it works!
The reason for the dripping is that by not squeezing the opposing faces together honey remains on the inner face of the gate. Then when you close the gate, the top of the gate body (part attached to the tank) scrapes some of the honey off and that runs down and around, dripping from below. I bottle thousands of jars this way and rarely need to wipe off the gate.

-ekrouse


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

>It's the same technique as using scissors that don't cut. If you squeeze the two halves together it works!

If I have spent good money and freight on a purchase I prefer to get one that does not require Mickey Mouse to operate it, when other brands work correctly.


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## Grant (Jun 12, 2004)

I have these on every bucket I use to bottle from...no problems. I apply gentle pressure against the seal when I open the gate, pushing backward toward the bucket. Keeping this pressure prevents the leaks that cause drippings.

If I had one complaint, it is with the screws. The corroad from being washed so I grease them with Crisco.

Grant
Jackson, MO


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## ekrouse (Aug 26, 2004)

Grant... you can always get stainless steel bolts (expensive) or use food grade mineral grease like what's used on extractor bearings.

Odfrank... I understand your point of view, but I don't want to spend the extra $28 per gate (assuming the $30 gate works any better). That would run me an extra $280 for every 10 buckets of honey. Also, most of the other gates stick out way too far to mount on every bucket. Of course if you have a full-size bottling tank, then what you really want is the solid Stainless Steel, self closing, no-drip valve from Dadant. Current price is $132. Here's the link:

http://www.dadant.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=35_74&products_id=833

-ekrouse


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

ekrouse said:


> Of course if you have a full-size bottling tank, then what you really want is the solid Stainless Steel, self closing, no-drip valve from Dadant. Current price is $132. Here's the link:http://www.dadant.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=35_74&products_id=833-ekrouse


That type of valve is described for warm honey, which I don't got. Plus the 1970's vintage tanks that I use have the cast guillotine valves permanently attached, and they work OK. 

I was just complaining about that particular brand of plastic valve, which others seem to like.


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