# My Colonies are at a Winery: Please tell me about nectar gathering and honey making



## Beethinking (Jun 2, 2008)

Vitis vinifera grapes are largely wind pollinated -- thus they have no real need for honey bees. And from what I know, honey bees don't particularly like wine grapes. I'm placing 10 Warre hives at some smaller organic wineries here in the Portland metropolitan area and I'm not factoring in the grapes at all, but I am excited about some of the clover and other cover crops that organic wineries use. In addition, I've picked locations either close to residential areas or close to wild areas covered in wildflowers and blackberries.

I believe most grapes blossom in April/May. 

I'll try and find you some sources regarding honey bees and the nectar of grapes, but I'd focus more on the rest of the forage available surrounding the winery.

Cheers,
Matt


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## winevines (Apr 7, 2007)

fatscher said:


> 1.
> Should I be asking the wine maker about this?


If you ask anyone you should ask the VIGNERON- that is the person growing the grapes... a totally separate activity from wine making. And you know who our favorite vigneron is? Mr. G himself!
The winery offers nothing except at crush time, lots of yellowjackets! Oh, and you already know what a good idea the outside sangria bar is in August! The best that vineyards have to offer is the mustard and clover and other weeds that grows in between the rows- as long as it is not sprayed with round up at flower time. Winevines are self pollinating and bees do not visit them. Here in Virgninia bud break was last weekend- different times in different places, but I would assume it is during Spring for most places.


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## Camp9 (Feb 7, 2006)

We grow 7 acres of grapes. If I didn't have bees they would still produce. The bees will work the blossoms, but only if nothing else is avilable. 

Camp


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## terri lynn (Apr 5, 2009)

winevines said:


> Winevines are self pollinating and bees do not visit them. /QUOTE]
> 
> I have lots of Mustang grapes growing wild along fences on the place I recently bought. They're mainly used for jelly. Would these be different from wine grapes for the bees, or would the plants still be too similar for much use? I'd been trying to find out this because I have tons! Plenty of volunteers coming up as well.
> 
> Terri


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## Camp9 (Feb 7, 2006)

Those grapes are the same, just that there Mustang grapes. I've talked to guys that have made wine out of them too. you can make wine out of any grape. 

Camp


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## summer1052 (Oct 21, 2007)

Some people use Mustang grapes for homebrew. It will work. But they are not a wine grape, per se. Most wine grapes do not appreciate the toasty warm (i.e., hotter than Hades) summers we enjoy here in TX. In addition, there are some fungal diseases that cause problems here.

Having said that, I provide 2 colonies per season to a small, local, getting started winery. Many grapes are at least partially self-pollinating. But the owners say that they see at least a 50% increase in grape production with the girls around. They have lots of wild clover and wildflowers around, too. I don't believe there to be enough pollen/nectar to sustain a hive from grapes alone.

Trading honey for wine for a few months' time is a reasonable deal for me. We're talking about trying some mead down the road. 

Summer


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## terri lynn (Apr 5, 2009)

That's all good to know. I had heard you couldn't make wine from Mustang ...or I should say good wine, since of course any grape can make wine. Maybe that was just one person's taste, being passed down and along. I'll have to try it when (if) I have time. Good to know the grapes will at least contribute to the bees as well. I've been planting a lot for them, but naturally it's mostly oaks around here. Thank goodness for wildflowers.


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## Orion (Jun 18, 2007)

grapes = pesticide


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## summer1052 (Oct 21, 2007)

Orion ==

Depends. The folks I am dealing with are going organic. They spray an OMRI approved item for grasshoppers, as needed. It's in the contract that they don't spray diddly-poo with out giving us a heads up to screen the girls in. They used a copper based spray one time when some fungus got very busy in a short amount of time. In fact, we went over to help. And they refrained from mowing some clover when we asked. 

A small vineyard should not be a problem. If they are asking for bees, they want them around, and don't want to hurt them. A bigger commercial enterprise, focused on bottom line? I'd worry about sprays, ignorance and apathy then. 

But you ARE right -- ANY operation known for using pesticides freely (and vineyards fall into that catagory for sure) should be looked at CAREFULLY before providing bees for pollination. Or just being nearby the hives.


Summer


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## garprob (Jan 20, 2009)

I am new to this business- have had my bees less than a week now. I have a small grape arbor in my backyard with Concord grapes that we use for making grape juice. In past years I have always seen a few bees hovering around the blossoms. I was excited for my bees this year as I thought the grapes would be a good addition to the honey and maybe I would get more grapes off the arbor.

Does anyone know if this is the case. Are my concords different from "wine grapes" as far as bee involvement goes?


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## winevines (Apr 7, 2007)

It is true that many vineyards use chemnicals on the plants. Some vineyards are actually organic, but even some organically based sprays are potentially toxic to honeybees. 

We have had bees at a vineyard for 3 years and never had a problem. Usually the sprays are not at bloom time, and that is what I think would be the difference for the bees. The spray that would effect bees the most would be the heracides used on the undercover weed crop (clover, etc.) more so than anything used on the actual grape vines. 

I do not believe there is much, if any, of a connection with honeybees and grapes- I seriously doubt a 50% increase in production as grapes are self pollinating. Our vineyard has never seen that with the bees there.

The only time I see my own bees on my own (Concord) grape vines is after the grapes are there and very ripe- I figure they are getting the sweet juice.


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## winevines (Apr 7, 2007)

garprob said:


> I was excited for my bees this year as I thought the grapes would be a good addition to the honey and maybe I would get more grapes off the arbor.
> 
> Does anyone know if this is the case. Are my concords different from "wine grapes" as far as bee involvement goes?


Read the 2nd post in this series- Grapes are self pollinating- bees will make little to no difference with grapes.


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## arnaud (Aug 2, 2009)

Concord, Mustang, Vitis vinifera doesn't make a difference to the bees. Native vines in the South have a different cycle than vinifera, but that's about it.

I have four hives located next to a 10-acre vineyard, here in Northern California's Wine Country. The bees have been producing honey steadily from the various wildflowers around - thistle, mustards, but also lavender and other flowers planted as part of the landscaping about 300 feet away, where they get their water from a pond.

In the spring, I've seen them on the vines blossoms. And in the fall, they absolutely love to drink the juice bursting from some grape berries. It's that much sugar syrup I don't have to feed them.

The winery is an organic operation and they don't spray anything, so I don't have to worry about pesticides.


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