# Replace the queen of quick and simple way : is it true?



## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

I friend beekeeper told me that beekeepers of the American continent with many beehives are replacing queens through a very simple and fast technique . They do it by placing a cocoon with a queen about to be born on top of the hive with at least one medium on to separate cocoon from the nest . High frequency the new queen is not killed in the cocoon , born and replaces the old queen .

May you please confirm if this technique is used and with success?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I have done it with pretty good success if the weather is not cold. If it gets chilly at night when you do this the bees may not keep the queen cell warm enough. I wouldn't call it 100% but I would say when it fails they usually didn't really need a new queen...


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

It's a whole new area that opens up to me. Michael can you give me some more details on this technique?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>It's a whole new area that opens up to me. Michael can you give me some more details on this technique?

I think you pretty much have it. Your raise queen cells. You go to your beeyard and you put the cells in a super if the weather is warm at night. Put it in the brood nest if not. The advantage to the super is they may be less likely to tear it down and you don't have to lift as many boxes. The disadvantage is they are less likely to keep it warm. The advantage to the brood nest is they are more likely to keep it warm. I'm not so sure they are more likely to tear it down or not, but I'd rather not lift boxes. The best thing about this technique is the time you save not finding queens.


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

Michael what is the minimum temperature above which I can use this technique without taking big risks?

Michael this technique should be used in late summer when there are still drones or early spring when there is already drones?


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## jbraun (Nov 13, 2013)

Does this use the supersedure tendency of the bees? Would this be a good way to requeen a mean hive without finding the queen?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Does this use the supersedure tendency of the bees? 

Yes.

>Would this be a good way to requeen a mean hive without finding the queen?

Yes, but I would still break them up into smaller hives first. It will make them less defensive and therefore less likely to tear down the cells and at least most of those divisions will be queenless which will improve the odds as well. Just set each box of the original hive on it's own stand and put in a queen cell the next day. Put a box of drawn but empty comb on the original stand and put a queen cell there the next day.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Eduardo Gomes said:


> Michael what is the minimum temperature above which I can use this technique without taking big risks?


More important than the temperature is the flow. Is there one? If you place queen cells without a flow on, the results will be poor. So, do it when the weather is good and the bees are filling the supers with honey.


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

Thank you Michael Palmer. In that case I should do it at half of Spring when the nectar flow is more intense in my region.

Do you think this technique has some negative influence on honey production ?

This technique helps in some way control the swarm?


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## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

jbraun said:


> ......Would this be a good way to requeen a mean hive without finding the queen?


Africanized or defensive European bees are difficult to requeen....This technique seems like something my friends in that situation should try. I'm assuming the queen cell should be ripe and ready to hatch within 24 hours. Has anyone tried introducing a newly hatched virgin into a defensive hive?


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## RAK (May 2, 2010)

I like to place the queen cells in the middle of brood nest with either a cell protector or some aluminum foil wrapped around the cell. Duct tape also works.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Releasing a virgin into the normal queen less hive is challenging enough. I got many casualties this way. They will balled her after 3
days for unknown reason. So to improve the chance of a successful introduction is to use a cloak board
to divide the hive temporarily. After the 3 days that the virgin got hatched then you can remove the cloak board for the virgin to roam. Is it better if
there are many nurse bees to go with the frames where the virgin or the qc is being introduced. Yes, it can be done. If not flow on then honey syrup feed them.


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## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)

I use the "second emerge cell" by Nicot for requeening production hives in late summer. It is more or less a plastic swarm cell, not to be confused with the cell protector. You take the emerged new queen, put her into the plastic swarm cell and place her into the middle of the broodnest. I do not take out the old queen. I got that trick from: 



> Cells are introduced without de-queening.
> Some years ago I decided to take the advice of an elderly beekeeper acquaintance and requeen my hives using 10 day protected queen cells. The cells are introduced around the end of the honey flow without first de queening. This method induces a natural queen supercedure at a time of year when the weather is usually settled and bees will readily accept a new queen.


http://www.carricell.com/#!CARICELL...on/c1c0o/2D2FAEFC-F534-4CA1-8126-CAAB82D1CA10

The queen frees herself from the plastic cell in 5 to 15 minutes. It is essential to make a small cut in the tip of the wax cap. You basicly push out a small circle of wax to form the cap, wrap this wax circle around the free tip of the plastic swarm cell and your're done.



















Watch out, so you don't squeeze the queen's legs when introducing her into the cell. By rubbing - just a very very little of - honey to the wax cap, the young queen readily goes down and feeds on the honey and you can close the cell without endangering the queen.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Eduardo Gomes said:


> Do you think this technique has some negative influence on honey production ?
> 
> This technique helps in some way control the swarm?


I don't think this would have a negative influence on honey production. 

I suppose it could help with swarming. Swarming is one way that colonies re-queen themselves. We're told that maintaining our colonies with young queens reduces swarming. So, if you re-queen a colony of bees it could help reduce swarming in that colony.


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## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

Does this method of re-queening stimulate the old queen to take a crowd and swarm?


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

BernhardHeuvel said:


> I use the "second emerge cell" by Nicot for requeening production hives in late summer.


Whow!! Great lesson! Thank you very much Bernhard.

In later summer do you have a nectar flow in your region?


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## Juhani Lunden (Oct 3, 2013)

BernhardHeuvel said:


> I use
> http://www.carricell.com/#!CARICELL...on/c1c0o/2D2FAEFC-F534-4CA1-8126-CAAB82D1CA10


Where do you get those cups? 
There is a hole and a lid in the back, so queen is easy to slip in there.


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

Michael Palmer said:


> I suppose it could help with swarming.


It makes perfect sense what you say . All this information will help me a lot. In my process of management of apiaries I can say that it is critical . I am very grateful!


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## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)

If you time it well enough, it'll work like a charm. At the end of the last flow; when you find natural superseding. It is possible though that there is a swarm here and there. No problem if the old queen's wing is clipped (on one side). The old queen falls down to the ground and dies, while the bees return to the hive.

The young queen, that has freshly emerged and doesn't smell much, plus she can't run over the combs, is accepted by the bees and sometimes even by the other old queen. This is a picture taken in autumn.



















Old queen and young queen side by side on one comb. In Spring usually the fresh young queen comes out of the winter alone.


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## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)

Juhani Lunden said:


> Where do you get those cups?


For example: http://www.icko-apiculture.com/en/a...ueens-breeding/cellule-introd-de-reine-u.html

It is from Nicot, the producer of the Nicot breeding system.


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## beekuk (Dec 31, 2008)

These also work very well, just cut the end off, bit expensive from this place though.

http://www.amazon.com/1-5mL-Microcentrifuge-tubes-Natural-colors/dp/B0017UDKOU


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Michael what is the minimum temperature above which I can use this technique without taking big risks?

I guess it's more art than science. I look at nighttime temps and the density of bees in the hive. If there are plenty of bees and it's not getting below freezing at night it can work. But by the time I have queen cells this usually isn't a problem, so it's more of an issue of how many bees determining where I will put the cells.

>Michael this technique should be used in late summer when there are still drones or early spring when there is already drones?

Everything to do with queens works better when there are drones and a flow. So my preference would always be prime swarm season or just before prime swarm season.

>More important than the temperature is the flow. Is there one?

Les Crowder quotes one of his teachers saying "A flow makes us all better beekeepers". Everything works better in a flow. And not just a little better...


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## BWrangler (Aug 14, 2002)

Hi Guys

Way back in my Wyoming commercial bee days, I'd raise about 4500 cells/year and use them this way. Initially, during the first 3 years I think, detailed records were kept.Success was about the same as using caged, mated queens.

But it was much cheaper, easier, and quicker. Overall, it's a great method when:

- queen cell protectors are used. I used JZBZ.
- the cells are properly handled. Plastic cups make it much easier.
- there are plenty of young bees working in the honey dome.
- it's past the spring swarm season.
- brood rearing/hive expansion has peaked.
- no dearth.

The method:
- 10 day old queen cells were used.
- they were placed between frames in the super below the top super.
- about mid-summer.
- worked great when done during a second supering round.

The only problems are working with ripe queen cells. Timing is critical. Cells must be handled carefully.

I've thought about using younger, more robust cells which could alleviate timing and handled problems. And did a small test:

http://talkingstickblog.wordpress.com/2009/10/20/two-day-old-cells/

-dm


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## woodedareas (Sep 10, 2010)

Where exactly do you place the plastic cell in the hive? If there is a super does it go into the super or if there is no super I assume it goes into the upper brood box. Is that correct? Great system.


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## BWrangler (Aug 14, 2002)

woodedareas said:


> Where exactly do you place the plastic cell in the hive? If there is a super does it go into the super or if there is no super I assume it goes into the upper brood box. Is that correct? Great system.


Placement was based on the beekeeper's convience. The only criteria was that it be placed above the broodnest. That's away from the queen and where young bees congregate.

In practice:

- time was midsummer.
- most hives had at least a couple shallow supers on.
- when not pulling honey, the hive was quickly opened by rotating back the top super.
- the cell, with protecto,r was inserted between the top bars of the center frames in the super still on the hive.
- the rotated top super was set back down.
- when pulling honey, the cell was put in the same location, in a new empty super, on the hive.

At that time of year, heat could be a problem when setting them beneath a migratory cover. So, in a hive without supers, they were pressed into the brood comb beneath the top bar.

On several occasions, my co-worker, when faced with darkness and a box full of queen cells ready to hatch, just cracked the hives and literally tossed them in. I wouldn't recommend it. But it seemed to work.

-dm


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

Great lessons in beekeeping you more experienced beekeepers around here have given .
Simplicity and gain time , two key criteria for a profitable and extensive beekeeping, as advocated by the great Argentine beekeeper Manuel Oksman.


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## AramF (Sep 23, 2010)

Bees will quite often raise a second queen above an excluder if there are viable eggs there. So if you raise your own queen, separate the hives by an excluder and next day place an open cell in there. They will raise the larvae, cap her and release her. Now you have a two queen hive with shared heat and massive potential population. Virgins are quite easy to introduce into a queen-less hive if they are less than a day old and if the queen has been gone for a day or two. After that age, I find bees to be quite unwelcoming. They will almost always take care of an open queen cell in areas that have not been visited by a queen recently.


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

Michael Bush said:


> ...>More important than the temperature is the flow. Is there one?
> 
> Les Crowder quotes one of his teachers saying "A flow makes us all better beekeepers". Everything works better in a flow. And not just a little better...


And Randy Oliver says that is is usually more economical for him to move his bees to a flow than to feed them. He tries to go all year without feeding them, instead preferring to move them onto the next bloom. I think I'm seeing a pattern here...


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

AramF said:


> Bees will quite often raise a second queen above an excluder if there are viable eggs there.


I also use this method to create a lot of my new queens .


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Eduardo, don't forget one main draw back from re queening with cells, mating success runs 75-85%. 
Be sure to check up in two weeks


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Eduardo Gomes said:


> I also use this method to create a lot of my new queens .


Any special considerations? Or just placing a frame with eggs above the excluder?


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

Ian said:


> Eduardo, don't forget one main draw back from re queening with cells, mating success runs 75-85%.
> Be sure to check up in two weeks


Ian, thank you for your reminder.


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

snl said:


> Any special considerations? Or just placing a frame with eggs above the excluder?


My process is divided into two phases .
Step 1 ) Put the excluder on top of the nest on a very strong hive with lots of young bees ; I put a box equal to the nest above the excluder ; I'll get to a hive that interests me the genetic line a frame with eggs . I landmark this frames . I took Other two frames from another hives with opened and closed creation ( hives preferably more prone to swarm ) and two other frames with honey and pollen from other hives. Give a little smoke by the entrance , or hit with a stick outside the nest for the bees climb .

Step 2 ) After 5 to 6 days back to this hive, I destroy on the marked frame closed queen cells and leave them open and I destroy queen cells if they are there in the others frames. Give a little smoke at the entrance to rise some more bees . Step all of the 6 of these frames with the bees that are clinging to a new box and closing it , this new box I take it for another apiary always more than 3 Km .

I have 400 beehives, practically all queens were created by me (more than 300 hives sold in these years ), and never made a pick. My bees choose hers future mother from the beggining, not me.
This year I need to begin with picks.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Ian said:


> Eduardo, don't forget one main draw back from re queening with cells, mating success runs 75-85%.


Just about the same % with mating nucs.......


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## jonathan (Nov 3, 2009)

Queenright queenrearing is described in this concise paper by Wilkinson and Brown.

I use this method a lot to produce queens.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

snl said:


> Just about the same % with mating nucs.......


......that is what I am saying. To re queen your operation this way leaves 10-15% of the hives in trouble. A lot of large hives are exposed to risk of failure. Further assessments are needed to salvage problem hives. 
Its why most queen with cells in small units.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Ian said:


> ......that is what I am saying. To re queen your operation this way leaves 10-15% of the hives in trouble. A lot of large hives are exposed to risk of failure.


True, but in this scenario, you possibly still have the old queen which ups your %


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

snl said:


> True, but in this scenario, you possibly still have the old queen which ups your %


I also perspectival, like snl, that in cases where the new queen, for some reason, is not fertilized , there is no problem that beehive become orphan because it has the old queen. As I never used this technique my reasoning may be failing at some point...?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Eduardo Gomes said:


> As I never used this technique my reasoning may be failing at some point...?





snl said:


> True, but in this scenario, you possibly still have the old queen which ups your %


Not in my experience. The virgin immediately kills the old queen, then carries on to mate and rule her new hive. Its almost a rule that virgins will kill off the old queen. They are quicker and more agile. During my spring time queen work, I hate virgins...


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

Ian said:


> Its almost a rule that virgins will kill off the old queen.


I see. So the process becomes much more risky and laborious. Thank you Ian .


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Eduardo Gomes said:


> I see. So the process becomes much more risky and laborious. Thank you Ian .


oh ya, its like a hive supercedure or a cast off swarm. The hive is put into risk. When I work through my beekeeping management strategy I try to eliminate those very risk factors by requeening with mated queens. Its more work and more money if you don't make your own queens. 
There is a reason why all beekeepers just don't buy cells for their spring time queen requirements.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Ian,
What's your success rate rate using mated queens?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

snl said:


> Ian,
> What's your success rate rate using mated queens?


Success rate in acceptance? 95% Every once and a while ( like last year with bad timing ) we run into problems, two yards run 85%. But anyone who mates queens knows that problems also happen with using cells. If you have 1000 hives, and your cells hatch, kill the queen, and have poor matings, let say 75% viable queens after the dust settles, your looking at fixing up 250 hives.


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

Ian said:


> When I work through my beekeeping management strategy I try to eliminate those very risk factors by requeening with mated queens.


When you introduce the mated queen does not bother to advance to take out the old queen? Where beehive site you place the new queen ? And you put it protected in a cage ? Any trick to increase acceptance of the new queen?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

old queen must first go


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

I have tried this method but have some reservations about it. At the end of it I never know for sure if the process worked or not. Guys claim a 85% or so success rate but how do they know? I am aware of the method and have read about it from the perspective of different people, however I do not recall anybody explaining in detail how they come up with 85%.

My other reservation is the following. We start with queen right colonies that usually have queens that are 1 season old. Virgin hatches and kills old queen, bird eats virgin. Now i have a dud.I am not convinced that it is so quick. After failures it is a pain to salvage 20-25% of the colonies that need attention. I guess I should try it on a small scale next year and compare to the rest of the outfit.

Jean-Marc


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## Lady Luck (Mar 15, 2012)

One spring I had a dozen extra cells and no queenless nucs to put them in so I selected random hives with older queens (old queens were marked, 1-3 years old). I put the cells in the brood nest in JZ cell protecters. I did not get back to check each hive, but did check 6 hives, and of those, two still had the old marked queen, 2 had the old queen and the new queen both present, and 2 had an unmarked queen-so the virgin did kill the old queen. I thought at the time that the bees decided whether or not they wanted a new queen and may have killed the virgin if they were happy with their queen. These cells were ripe and may not have been in the hive long enough before emerging for the bees to accept them. It would be fun to do the same experiment using 3 to 5-frame nucs, as it wouldn't require as much time to re-check to see what the outcome would be.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>however I do not recall anybody explaining in detail how they come up with 85%.

You keep your queens marked and you count unmarked queens.


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

"Four methods for introducing queens in productive honeybee colonies were evaluated: mated queens (MQ), virgin queens (VQ) and queen cells (QC) in dequeened colonies, and protected queen cells (PQC) in colonies with queens. Two requeening tests were done at the beginning of the spring and two at the end of the summer. Among the introduction methods used in dequeened colonies none of them oustanded consistently according to the number of accepted queens. Even so, method MQ was significantly more efficient in the spring requeenings when both requeening periods were analized together. On the contrary, the PQC method had almost no success, only replacing the queen in one out of 54 colonies in which it was employed. The maximum acceptance was of 80,8% and the minimum of 48,9%, both corresponding to the end of summer requeenings. The number of queenless colonies at the end of the evaluation was between 11,5% and 23,7%." 

Here is the paper if you wish to know more: http://www.apimondia.com/apiacta/articles/2006/inver_1.pdf


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## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)

And yet it works for me. Probably I read: http://www.carricell.com/#!CARICELL...on/c1c0o/2D2FAEFC-F534-4CA1-8126-CAAB82D1CA10 and followed the instructions. :lookout:


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>On the contrary, the PQC method had almost no success, only replacing the queen in one out of 54 colonies in which it was employed.

I never had much luck with PROTECTED queen cells. I don't use protectors anymore even though I have a box of a thousand of them... that is probably a good estimate for protected queen cells. I think it lessens acceptance. If they don't want the queen the protector won't make them like her...


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

Thank you Bernhard for reminding me the caricell method. I can't add nothing from my personal experience. I've never tried but I will do it with some of my colonies. And to make sure that the method worked and what percentage I will mark the old queens. I'll do my study in about 20 colonies. This rapid method of queen exchange interests me a lot, but I have to evaluate first with the my bees if it is feasible, given that the data are not consensual.


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## little55 (Aug 6, 2008)

I like to to do a version of this by splitting a hive and placing a ripe cell into both halves of the split. If the hive ends up queen less you can combine with the original hive. Even if you end up with 75% matings you end up with an increase in hives. I do this for my increases because it saves me time and labor finding old queens and intro new queens.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

little55, are you sure this is the right method to introduce a ripe cell into the
half? My experience with a queen right hive (half) was that the workers simply tore up
the qcell I put in. You never had this issue before? Seems like a waste of 1 good cell.
Even with a queen less hive sometimes it is hard to intro a qc without them killing it.
Then what kind of bees do you keep?


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## AramF (Sep 23, 2010)

I do not think he is introducing a queen cell into a queen less half, with a queenright half to the side of it. He introduces two queen cells into a queenless split, that is divided in a middle. 

You can however introduce an uncapped queen cell a few days old into a queenless half and they will raise it and cap it and take care of her, as long as the laying queen is nowhere near the cell. I'd even venture to say that a portion of the hive that has been separated from a queen, will accept a capped queen cell quite readily, though I don't think you could introduce a hatched virgin there.


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## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)

Use a cell protector...done.


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## little55 (Aug 6, 2008)

I use a cell protector. I actually wrap my cells in aluminum foil.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Ahh, the good o' AL wrap. Now I know why mine did not work before.
Perhaps bernard should try this route for his cell intro too. Can someone tell
him about this.


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