# Stores and Hive Volume.



## little_john (Aug 4, 2014)

There was a thread elsewhere within the last couple of days concerning the desirable weight of stores for winter, and the numbers being quoted were large (mainly because they were GROSS hive weights) - but anyway, this prompted me to re-read 'Beekeeping for All' regarding this particular issue.

To be honest, I find 'Beekeeping for All' to be a difficult read because of the constant 'sales-pitches' within it, and here's an example where Warre is promoting his fixed-comb version over the use of frames (well, when you're on the 12th Edition of a book, an author is expected to be offering something new and exciting ... ) 

Emile Warre writes: "... if small hives with frames economise on winter stores and facilitate the development of brood in spring, a hive with fixed comb will do it better ... ". which sounds a pretty convincing case for fixed-comb hives ... until you read the remainder of his sentence: " ... *because its volume is smaller*: 36 litres instead of 44."

Then, he proceeds with his sales-pitch: " We therefore designed the People's Hive with fixed comb. Now we noticed that the People's Hive with fixed combs saved an extra 3 kg of stores compared with the People's Hive with frames."

BUT - this is not as a result of fixed combs vs frames _per se_ - but rather *because the box volume is smaller*. He could just have easily written: " Now we noticed that the People's Hive with the smaller volume saved an extra 3 kg of stores compared with the People's Hive with the larger volume." But had he done so, then this might have suggested that the use of frames in the smaller of the two volumes would have achieved a similar result - which is not perhaps the message he was hoping to convey ...

The inside dimensions of the Fixed-Comb Warre box are well-known, at 300 x 300mm x 210mm deep, whereas the inside dimensions of the Framed Warre box are perhaps less well-known, at 335 x 335mm x 207.5mm deep.

The "saving of stores" which Warre refers to is a reduction from 15kg (33lbs) to 12kg (26.5lbs), a reduction of 20%.

The reduction of box volume is quoted as being from 44L to 36L, an apparent reduction of 18%, but if the dimensions given are crunched in a calculator, then the reduction is actually nearer 19%.

So - a 20% reduction caused by a 19% reduction. It's tempting to jump to the obvious conclusion, but perhaps that's a little rash with just one set of figures. It's a helluva coincidence though 
LJ


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

LJ, here is a very worthy channel of a dedicated Warre beek (will require the auto-trans for some - but those willing to watch and learn should find it useful).

https://www.youtube.com/c/НародныйУлейВаррэ/videos

Quick observations:
- the location is about zone 4-5 USDA - quite cold
- wintered outside on 3 boxes
- winter store requirements are really, really small (hello US Lang keepers?)

So, yes, this is nothing about the fixed frame itself.
This is ALL about the general CV (Compact Vertical) hive volume energy profile.


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