# early spring mite treatments



## wildflowerlanehoney (Aug 17, 2010)

I know what this is going to turn into, I know everyone has their personal opinions, and I know I will have to do some weeding through the responses to get the info I am looking for, but here we go......

What kind of mite treatment would be recommended for an early spring treatment? My thought is to use MAQS at the first chance I can. I plan to start putting on pollen paddies towards the end of February or first of March in preparation for the spring flow. I know that sometimes there is a chance of shutting down the queen during those applications, but would it be advisable to treat with MAQS that early? If MAQS is not a good option, what would be to achieve the same idea?

I would like to hive my treated before any honey supers go on and before I make my splits (to avoid swarming and for my own hive increase). I thought then maybe later switching to something like Hopguard later in the year.

Am I on the right track? Thanks for any serious advise I can get.


----------



## crofter (May 5, 2011)

You can do oxalic acid vaporization at much cooler temperatures where Maqs or other Formic acid treatments are ineffective. I have not heard of any queen or brood loss issues. It is approved in most countries to kill mites, but in the US it is used to bleach the frames and boxes and the dazzle confuses the mites so they can't find their prey! lol!


----------



## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

Agreed,, OA seems to be the only easy cold weather treatment. I just did a bunch of hives last weekend before the storm. MAQS does kill some brood, and requires a warm period to work well.

Most large scale spring treaters are useing checkmite from what I have seen in the yards


----------



## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Keep in mind that oxalic acid doesn't kill mites in the capped brood cells while formic does. So...effectiveness and best choice of product will be influenced by the level of brood rearing at the time of treatment.


----------



## wildflowerlanehoney (Aug 17, 2010)

Ok, so at that time, there may not be much capped brood. OA may be a good choice for early treatments in my case, then follow up with MAQS later. What is the min. temps for OA? I am not very familiar with OA, so I need to do some research on that, any pointers?


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Keep in mind that oxalic acid doesn't kill mites in the capped brood cells while formic does. 

I think that is a definite maybe...

http://apisenterprises.com/papers_htm/BC2003/Formic_acid1.htm
"Formic acid appears to be a good candidate because it is a relatively small compound with a molecular weight of 46.03, which may be responsible for reports that it can penetrate brood cappings and kill mites sealed in the cell (Mr. Ruzicka says it actually must be brushed on the cappings to be effective). "

http://www.biosecurity.govt.nz/pests-diseases/animals/varroa/paper/varroa-treatment-options.htm#9
"It is suggested that formic acid is able to kill varroa in capped brood cells as well as on adult bees. Tests where brood combs were fumigated in closed plastic foam boxes at 50ml for 1 hour killed 100% of mites in the brood cells with 90% of brood surviving the treatment48. However, vapours may not be sufficient to produce similar results in field conditions. 

"Adverse Effects: Use of Formic acid gel resulted in removed drone eggs, delayed drone production and reduced adult drone survival (24% survival at 10 days old vrs. 49% for controls). Unlike fluvalinate, formic acid did not reduce drone weight or weight of glands. 

"Surviving drones had higher levels of sperm than controls33. Formic acid may also have adverse effects on open brood and hatching bees, depending on ambient temperature and device used, although loss of brood did not have a negative effect on colony overwintering in mid-European conditions92. Formic acid produced the highest rate of adult bee mortality (35.3 bees/hive/day) of 6 substances tested52. "

http://scientificbeekeeping.com/the-arsenal-natural-treatments-part-1/
"Formic vapors dissipate throughout the hive, killing phoretic varroa mites (but few in capped cells)..."


----------



## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

wildflowerlanehoney said:


> Ok, so at that time, there may not be much capped brood. OA may be a good choice for early treatments in my case, then follow up with MAQS later. What is the min. temps for OA? I am not very familiar with OA, so I need to do some research on that, any pointers?


My first time with it... so take it with a grain of salt..... 50 deg outside temp.... I went as low as 45, but bees were actively moving. cleansing flights and such. 
Boil until the OX in the cup is gone.... any leftovers means your cup is not hot enough.... 
There is also an option for a OA dribble... But you probably want even warmer temps before wetting the cluster. 
I picked vapor as easier on bees and beekeeper. but it requires a vaporizer.


----------



## Dave Burrup (Jul 22, 2008)

We used Apivar in our hives last spring. It is not temperature dependant like MAQS. Before deciding on oxalic acid, be aware that it is not legal in the US. The bleaching frames excuse will not hold water.
Dave


----------



## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

wildflowerlanehoney said:


> What is the min. temps for OA?


40 degrees...


----------



## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Dave Burrup said:


> Before deciding on oxalic acid, be aware that it is not legal in the US. The bleaching frames excuse will not hold water.
> Dave


You are correct, no matter that the rest of the world uses it........


----------



## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

Oh, and Don't forget cost.... a 25 pack of MAQS is 99.00 at Mann Lake..... The OA cup was 150, but treatment is literaly pennies a hive. A 12 0z OA container was 6.50 and will treat about 800 hives


----------



## wildflowerlanehoney (Aug 17, 2010)

So......OA is not legal in the U.S.?


----------



## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

wildflowerlanehoney said:


> So......OA is not legal in the U.S.?


It is not approved for use as a miticide in beehives.


----------



## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

It is legal and you can purchase it on Ebay and in many hardware stores where it is known as "Wood Bleach." What is illegal is someone (aka beekeeper) using it as a pesticide in their hives.


----------



## wildflowerlanehoney (Aug 17, 2010)

I see....so if I decide to use, I will be sure to tell it to play nicely with its little mite friends........


----------



## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

there is little to no chance it will be approved any time soon either... and why? because there is no money in it, or lobbying for it. in fact probably the oppoisite. OA is so cheap, MAQS, hopgaurd and all the others will probably fight against it.
Its not outlawed, just not approved


----------



## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

Oxalic acid can be toxic to bees.

Annecdotal advice on this and other forums by vetran keepers describe OA drenches as "hard" on winter bees and queens, and not to be repeated frequently.

I personally have killed hives outright in 24 hours by accidentally doubling the OA vapor dosage (using the "pipe capful measure" incorrectly.

This winter, my 2nd year colonies in my outyards treated with OA vapor + drench are showing high levels of die off - with rapid queen loss / emergency supersedure cells in November-December. Thymol treated colonies are surviving in greater proportion. I don't know if the OA (particularly the drench) is causing the colony collapse, or if it simply the OA was ineffective and Varroa-syndrome has exerted itself.

The internet OA vapor prescription has changed from single seasonal fumigation to a 3-4 episode weekly treatment. This obviously much increases the hive loading. OA recrystallizes on frames and comb. It may build up excessively if applications are repeated frequently. The drench prescription has also expanded to several episodes, and the recommended dosing of 50 ml/deep is likely exceeded easily.

Nicholas Aliano has a 155 page thesis on OA with notes on OA toxicity http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/entom...=rW13hRcjyN8xAmujnnhUvA&bvm=bv.58187178,d.cGU

He has also published an extract of this work: 
Acute Contact Toxicity of Oxalic Acid to Varroa destructor
(Acari: Varroidae) and Their Apis mellifera (Hymenoptera: Apidae)
Hosts in Laboratory Bioassays
NICHOLAS P. ALIANO,\ MARION D. ELLIS, AND BLAIR D. SIEGFRIED
Department of Entomology, University of Nebraska, 202 Plant Industry Building, Lincoln, NE 68583-0816
J. Econ. Entomol. 99(5): 1579Ð1582 (2006)

There is also a vast European published literature on toxicity and lethal dosing to bees. 

OA appears to work to reduce mite load, but like many "home remedies" it appears vulnerable to overdosing by over-enthusiastic practitioners.


----------



## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

JW Do you have any plan or idea to figure out if the treatment caused the issue, or was ineffective??
I tried it this year for the first time, as my TF die off rate was climbing and the ability to replace them early has vanished. I am trying the single treatment only for the moment.

Charlie


----------



## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

JWChesnut said:


> Oxalic acid can be toxic to bees.


There is evidence that it can be "hard on brood" when applied as a drench, however not so in the vaporized form.


----------



## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

What about Hopguard as an early spring treatment?


----------



## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

JWChesnut said this about OA vaporization: "_It may build up excessively if applications are repeated frequently._"

JWChesnut - do you have any evidence to support this assertion?

Thanks.


----------



## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

shinbone said:


> JWChesnut said this about OA vaporization: "_It may build up excessively if applications are repeated frequently._"
> 
> JWChesnut - do you have any evidence to support this assertion?


I too would like your reference ...... OR is this just your hypothesis?


----------



## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

snl said:


> There is evidence that it can be "hard on brood" when applied as a drench, however not so in the vaporized form.


Except, the lethal to effective ratio for vapor is only 2:1 based on my accidental poisoning. If this is true, then the newly promoted "3x weekly" prescription is delivering a toxic dose (although spread out over a month so effect is attenuated). 

I think the OA vapor treatment needs to subjected to independent research, rather than web-based promotional testimonials.


----------



## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

shinbone said:


> JWChesnut said this about OA vaporization: "_It may build up excessively if applications are repeated frequently._"
> 
> JWChesnut - do you have any evidence to support this assertion?
> 
> Thanks.


I observe that OA vapor quickly redeposits as a white "bloom" of tiny crystals on comb and frame (and bee hair and mite exo-skeleton). The OA bloom is detectable for several weeks after a treatment. I make the assumption that the crystal deposit has a residual effect, and the thickened deposit that accumulates from several repeated applications may represent an overdose.

I will look through the rather extensive literature on toxicity to bees and see what is reported within those references.


----------



## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

JWChesnut said:


> I make the assumption that the crystal deposit has a residual effect, and the thickened deposit that accumulates from several repeated applications may represent an overdose.


So to help me understand, you want us to go by _*YOUR assumptions*_ (not independent research), but we can't rely on "web-based testimonials" of those who have used it.


----------



## TWall (May 19, 2010)

First question is do you know what the mites load will be in your hives in the spring? Why treat if you don't need to?

By then you will capped brood. Mites in the brood are harder to kill. Mites prefer drone brood since they are capped longer than worker brood. Drone brood trapping can be used to remove mites. I put a foundationless deep frame on the edge of the brood. They bees typically draw it out completely as drone brood. Once capped remove the frame. You can freeze if for 48 hours and return to the hive. Or, just cut it out. I just cut it out.

While this won't eliminate mites it will suppress the population for a while.

Tom


----------



## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

"_The OA bloom is detectable for several weeks after a treatment._"

In other words, the OA bloom disappears several weeks after treatment. Which sounds to me like the opposite of it building up.

It is counter-intuitive to me how this supports concluding that the OA builds up in a hive. Am I mis-understanding something? JWChesnut - I don't doubt your observations, but I am not following your conclusion. Please help me understand your reasoning . . . ?


----------



## Wisnewbee (Apr 8, 2011)

Shinbone, 
I used Hopguard last year while the supers were on the hives. I was looking for a mid-season knock-down as the mite load was increasing. 

Hopguard is a short acting "flash" treatment. It's only working for 3-4 days. As long as it takes for the goop to dry out. It's effective on phoretic mites only! It has no effect on mites inside the capped cells. This means that if you have capped brood, and you should at the time you're talking about, you'll need to perform a minimum of 3 treatments a week apart to be effective. Hopguard also recommends a maximum of 3 treatments in a years time. 

We did a single treatment of 4 strips, 2 in each brood box as recommended. Only 1 treatment was done because we were only looking for a knock-down until our regular treatment.We did mite load samples before treatment and 3 weeks after treatment. Our mite load pre-treatment was 4%. 3 weeks after the single treatment our mite load was 5%. Was the treatment not effective because only 1 treatment was used, or because Hopguard didn't work? The control colonies had 4% pre-treatment and 5% mite loads when tested post-treatment. Yes we ran controls. The treatments were tested in multiple yards. You make your own decision. I won't be buying Hopguard in the future. In my hives, it was a waste of time and money.

Wisnewbee
Honey Luv Farm


----------



## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

Cites on Oxalic and toxicity to bees....
Nicolas Aliano finds a approximately linear dose/response in bee toxicity to Oxalic










Aliano calculates 2gr/hive translates to 57 microgram/bee in a 35,000 bee population. 4 treatments at this level == 230 ug/bee at 35,000 bees. A fall colony might represent far fewer than 35,000 bee, at 15,000 bees, or roughly 5 well covered deeps dosage spikes to >475 ug/bee well within his toxic dose.

This chart shows optimal effectiveness against mites at 5 ml/1000 bees -- or 50 ml per 10,000 bee colony at 2.8% concentration. Modern usage has pushed this to 3.5% or above. 
=============================
Higes (1999) finds the same effect I did, reduced brood and dead queens. 

Apidologie 30 (1999) 289-292
DOI: 10.1051/apido:19990404
*Negative long-term effects on bee colonies treated with oxalic acid against Varroa jacobsoni Oud.*
Mariano Higes, Aránzazu Meana, Miguel Suáreza and Jesús Llorentea

a Centro Apícola Regional, Servicio de Investigación Agraria de Castilla-La Mancha, Marchamalo, Guadalajara, Spain
b Dpto. Patología Animal I (Sanidad Animal), Facultad de Veterinaria, Universidad Complutense de Madrid, Avda Puerta de Hierro s/n, 28040 Madrid, Spain

Abstract - Two oxalic acid treatments were given to five colonies in autumn and five colonies in spring. In each treatment, colonies were treated every 7 days for 4 weeks with a 3 % sprayed oxalic acid. Another five colonies in each season served as controls and were sprayed only with water. Efficacy of oxalic acid in autumn was 94 % and in spring was 73 %. A long-term study of the colonies for 3-4 months after the last application of oxalic acid showed a statistically significant negative effect of the acid on brood development. In addition, three queens died in the treated colonies. © Inra/DIB/AGIB/Elsevier, Paris
============================
A study by the Estonian Kalle Toomenaa is notable in that it used 0.5% concentration (7 times weaker than modern American practice)

Apidologie 41 (2010) 643–653
The effect of different concentrations of oxalic acid
in aqueous and sucrose solution on Varroa mites and honey
bees*
Kalle Toomemaa, Ants-Johannes Martin, Ingrid H. Williams 
His dose response chart shows that bee toxicity start below 1.5% concentration -- so his research shows that 3.5% OA is having a significant effect on bees.










Although concentrations of <4.6%
have been tolerated well by bees in experiments
by many researchers, in some experiments
colonies have been weakened considerably
following a single trickling treatment.
Multiple autumn or summer treatments (two to
three times) by trickling were poorly tolerated
by the bees in Central Europe (Rademacher
and Harz, 2006).

===========================

None of this is directly responsive to OA Vapor. OA Vapor and OA drench are simply different delivery methods for microcrystal deposits of the active ingredient.


----------



## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

JW, How does this relate?? If the box  is flooded for say 15 minutes wouldn't the dosage seen by the bees be based on a time of exposure and not the number of bees?? If I read this correctly they were useing a dribble method? how does this compare in your opinion to the vapor method? it seems to me the dosage in a vapor method is based mostly on time exposure and then of course some residual contact. it seems to me cluster size would be pretty much a moot point??

Please understand Not arguing with the idea, trying to comprehend the issue and thought process. Based on your post, I have no doubt in your information at all.


----------



## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

gm,
The sublimated vapor condenses within the hive very quickly. It remains in the hive. The sublimated crystals are the active ingredient. 

In the dribble, the dissolved OA evaporates on to the surfaces, the precipitated OA forms crystals. The deposited crystals are the active ingredient. The sugar added to the OA dribble is simply there to raise the viscosity of the liquid so it has time to evaporate rather than running off and pooling under the hive.

The vapor vs. solution methods are just different delivery mechanisms for the active ingredient which are the OA micro-crystals.

I don't have anything against OA per se. It appears effective. It is very cost friendly. It has the huge disadvantage as its actual toxicity to bees has been de-emphasized leading to frank overdosing by enthusiastic practitioners who are unfettered by the cost constraint of other treatments.


----------



## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Randy Oliver has reviewed some good oa research. I expect that his cautions are valid.
He includes citations on his website.
http://scientificbeekeeping.com/oxalic-acid-questions-answers-and-more-questions-part-1-of-2-parts/
Ellis and Aliano found that OA is about 70 times as toxic to mites as it is to adult bees—which is a much greater spread than with either thymol or formic acid.
As far as winter broodless dribbling, it is absolutely critical to treat them only once, with exactly the right amount and concentration of OA. More than one winter treatment clearly hurts the bees.
Charriere and Imdorf (2002) found that colonies treated with 5-6 ml/seam of 3% OA were only 85% the strength of controls by April 25. The best review is in Anonymous (1999). Typically, winter bees treated with OA start out a little slower, but catch up by the end of March.


----------



## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

thats my point, the potential overdosing.. Maybe point is the wrong word, thats what I am try to get a grip on. If I use for example the standard recommended dose for a single, on a small cluster and a large cluster, would I get 2 different dosages into the bees them selves? it seemed to me the concept was/is based on volume of the hive, irrelevant of the size of the cluster???? I do understand how multiple vaporized dosages to frequently could be an issue, but not understanding how cluster size would be related to a dosage.

I follow that a huge dosage in a tiny hive could be so dense as to be an issue.


----------



## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

When referring to vaporizing, I don't think the cluster size matters. Basically the vaporized oa is distributed throughout the hive....and the 'dose per bee' would be about the same. Now...the volume of the hive might be a different matter. If you vaporize 2g of oa in a single deep hive and a double deep...the single deep would get a heavier application....including dose per bee....in my opinion.


----------



## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

Thanks Dan, thats what I was thinking, JW does that sound right to you also??


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

wildflowerlanehoney said:


> I know what this is going to turn into, I know everyone has their personal opinions, and I know I will have to do some weeding through the responses to get the info I am looking for, but here we go......
> 
> What kind of mite treatment would be recommended for an early spring treatment? My thought is to use MAQS at the first chance I can. I plan to start putting on pollen paddies towards the end of February or first of March in preparation for the spring flow. I know that sometimes there is a chance of shutting down the queen during those applications, but would it be advisable to treat with MAQS that early? If MAQS is not a good option, what would be to achieve the same idea?
> 
> ...


Rice is grown in paddies. Beekeepers us protein patties.:lookout:

If temps are warm enough for MAQS, why not? Sounds like as good a plan as any.


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

wildflowerlanehoney said:


> So......OA is not legal in the U.S.?


It is not labeled for use as a miticide. Neither is powdered sugar.


----------



## DPBsbees (Apr 14, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> It is not labeled for use as a miticide. Neither is powdered sugar.


Or mineral oil.


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Is sugar syrup and hfcs approved as feed for bees? Under whose authority?


----------



## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

wildflowerlanehoney said:


> OA may be a good choice for early treatments in my case, then follow up with MAQS later.


If you haven't been talked out of using it yet, right now would be a great time to do a single OA Vapor treatment on the next day that the temps rise above 40 deg F. Your colonies are probably close to a broodless state at this time and you will get an approximate 95% efficacy rate if used now. Unless you have bionic mite breeding bees you would not have to worry about further treatments until after the spring flow. If you wait until spring to use OA Vapor you would need to do 3 treatments a week apart to also get the mites emerging with bees from Spring brood expansion.


----------



## Stephenpbird (May 22, 2011)

Have a look at this PDF. 
http://tinyurl.com/oo8owv5

First it suggests doing a treatment now and not in spring.

It compares 3 different ways of applying oxalic acid, spray, trickle and evaporation and a few others products.

Bottom line, all these treatments work well, as one application in a brood less period in winter with minimal impact on the bees.


----------



## wildflowerlanehoney (Aug 17, 2010)

Well Mike...as far as being talked out of it....I don't know! I knew what I was in for when I posted the question. As far as bionic mites....this is Ohio!


----------



## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

wildflowerlanehoney said:


> As far as bionic mites....this is Ohio!


Believe me, I know exactly what you're talking about. Ohio ... the Mite Magnet State. :lpf:


----------



## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

sqkcrk said:


> It is not labeled for use as a miticide. Neither is powdered sugar.


But powdered sugar is not labeled as a pesticide............whereas OA is.....


----------



## WWW (Feb 6, 2011)

Mike Gillmore said:


> Ohio ... the Mite Magnet State. :lpf:


I concur wholeheartedly.:thumbsup:


----------



## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

Stephenpbird said:


> Have a look at this PDF.
> http://tinyurl.com/oo8owv5


Thanks for posting these test results. An interesting study.


----------



## pdave (Jun 7, 2013)

Mike Gillmore said:


> Believe me, I know exactly what you're talking about. Ohio ... the Mite Magnet State. :lpf:


Not to hijack, but being a new bee keeper and from southwest Ohio, can you explain this joke to me? Are you saying that as a beek in SW Ohio I need to be more concerned with mites?


----------



## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

pdave,

Every region is different, so I'm only speaking for my area but it looks like there are others locally who agree. There seems to be a very high number of package bees brought into the state every spring and most of them are bees that have no tolerance for mites. They are good honey producers but many of them don't make it through the first winter because they are also good mite producers. When areas are continually bombarded every year with this, the region becomes saturated with mite intolerant bees.

To answer your question, yes, you should be concerned with mites. It may not be as bad where you are located but you should still monitor your colony mite levels throughout the year and know what the infestations levels are. It will be up to you to decide how to deal with them.


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>But powdered sugar is not labeled as a pesticide............whereas OA is..... 

I've never seen nor heard of OA labled as a pesticide.


----------



## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

pdave said:


> Are you saying that as a beek in SW Ohio I need to be more concerned with mites?


I doubt if there's any area where beekeepers wouldn't make the same claim. I think GA is the mite magnet AND small hive beetle state.

Anyway....I believe every beekeeper should be concerned with mites....underestimate them at your peril.


----------



## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

beemandan said:


> ...I believe every beekeeper should be concerned with mites....underestimate them at your peril.


Excellent advice. As a new beekeeper you need to go into this with eyes wide open. As Dan mentioned, a lot of beekeepers "underestimate" just how quickly a colony can be decimated by mite infestation. Every new beekeeper should go into their first year with the mindset that they are "expecting" their colonies to be overrun with mites. Plan to monitor mite levels periodically with an alcohol wash or sugar roll so you know what the current mite levels are at any point throughout they year. 

If you are one of the fortunate ones who have mite tolerant bees in a good location then you can count your blessings. However in many cases, particularly with package bees, by the end of the season the colonies are overrun with mites and in peril. At that point a decision needs to be made to either treat them, or go treatment free and accept the risk of losing the colonies. I am NOT trying to say that sustainable treatment free beekeeping is not possible. But there are many factors that have to be in place for it happen. Hoping they make it is not going to work, in some cases even with resistant stock. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## GLOCK (Dec 29, 2009)

Mike Gillmore said:


> Excellent advice. As a new beekeeper you need to go into this with eyes wide open. As Dan mentioned, a lot of beekeepers "underestimate" just how quickly a colony can be decimated by mite infestation. Every new beekeeper should go into their first year with the mindset that they are "expecting" their colonies to be overrun with mites. Plan to monitor mite levels periodically with an alcohol wash or sugar roll so you know what the current mite levels are at any point throughout they year.
> 
> If you are one of the fortunate ones who have mite tolerant bees in a good location then you can count your blessings. However in many cases, particularly with package bees, by the end of the season the colonies are overrun with mites and in peril. At that point a decision needs to be made to either treat them, or go treatment free and accept the risk of losing the colonies. I am NOT trying to say that sustainable treatment free beekeeping is not possible. But there are many factors that have to be in place for it happen. Hoping they make it is not going to work, in some cases even with resistant stock. Just my 2 cents.


You are so right I think the first thing you should do after getting your bees ya should put some kind of IPM in place .
My third year of treatment free bee keeping I had mite bombs every where and lost all my strong hives [5] and 9 more over winter out of 19 So I started to treat in the spring with fogging with FGMO and buy JULY mite bombs again but this time I did alcohol wash's on all hives and started treating with OAV and had 1000s and 1000s of mite drops buy mid. OCT. not many mites dropping anymore and I treated 6 times since end of JULY and I had a lot of mites .
Any way I plan doing alcohol washes in APRIL and treat as needed with OAV it has worked for me so far .
I have 25 hives and have not lost any since the beginning of last spring and I'm sure it's because I'm treating with OAV.
The why I see it is now that I have the mites in control I can work on VSH and mite tolerant bees but I think ya need strong bees to work with .I am the beekeeper and am here to help.


----------



## ajay.sharma (Jan 10, 2014)

Sorry to ask a slightly off topic question, but how much would you folks say you spend per hive on miticides per year? Would $3/hive/year sound right?


----------



## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

That depends on what product is used. For most of the common strip products it's probably closer to a minimum of $7.00 per colony. With OA it's just pocket change per colony.


----------

