# weaver bees



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Try a search on "weaver". There have been MANY discussions.


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## Dwight (May 18, 2005)

Welcome to the board and Happy Holidays Jeannie!
Everyone has different experiences with and thus different opinions about different strains of bees. Bee behavior is not the same in all climates. Fortunatley bees are not all that expensive, therefore hobbiest can experiment with different strains until they find the one that works for them without spending a fortune.
In my experience there are calm bees and ill tempered bees in all strains. These days the thing you need to be careful about is AHB.
I reccomend trying them and see how they work out for you.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Hi Jeannie
Welcome.
The Weaver's are in an area of the country that is heavily africanized. Their queens are open mated. Their approach, as I understand it, is to flood their mating areas with European drones and thereby reduce the number of african matings that would occur. I don't see any way they can avoid getting some africanized genes into the mix. I believe that it is the B Weaver's who claim that their production colonies don't require any varroa treatments. What is the level of africanized genes in that mix? I'm not sure anyone has tested. Will it be a problem? You've already heard that the Weaver's bees tend to be a little 'ill' tempered. If you search these message boards, I think you will find a lot of discussion on the topic.

Best of luck with your new enterprise.


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

jeannie ask:
has anyone had experience with the weaver bees?

tecumseh replies:
which weaver are you asking about jeannie? beneford, roy, morris and at least at one time howard????

then jeannie sezs:
I have read in the past that the weaver bees tend to be a little "ill" tempered. What do y'all know?

tecumseh sezs:
now I have (at least in recent history) never acquired any bees outside of bweavers (beneford) all stars which are pretty much your standard itialians. are they any more defensive than most lines of bees???? I really don't think so. I would tell you quite directly that just about any kind or variety of honeybee can be quite 'hot' give the proper circumstance. in addition, if you are so fortunate to have access to liteature sources and read back thru the liteature before the afb were even present in this country you will discover that any number of lines of bees would invariably throw out hot queens from time to time. to distinquish between a truely 'hot' hives and circumstance that makes any hive 'hot' is just one aspect of this 'art' that is called beekeeping.

good luck on your new endeavor...


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

What is it that has created your interest in the "All Star" line?


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## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

I'd suggest you get in touch with Dixie Bee Supply

http://www.geocities.com/fatbeeman/?200524

sounds like he's near you

Dave


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## Maine_Beekeeper (Mar 19, 2006)

Jeannie - 
If I lived near you I'd be buying my bees from FatBeeman. No question. 
Weaver has a BEAUTIFUL brochure. 
FatBeeman has, by all accounts incredible bees and he will be there to really help you along. 
Welcome to beesource, welcome to beekeeping. 
You are going to LOVE keeping bees.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

I've used Weavers Buckfast and Starlines over the years. For the 20 yrs of rotating them in and out of our stock they have been consisitently high spirited. We do not tolerate hot hives so not to that extent. They are fast comb builders, good honey makers and the Buckfast winter very well in the north. I consider the Buckfast top shelf and the Starlines a bit above average.


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## magnet-man (Jul 10, 2004)

If your hive is in your back yard, look somewhere else for bees. Every since I had bees from the Weavers my wiener dog wont go in the back yard. If I walk into the house with any beekeeping gear she runs and hides under the bed. No kidding. 

[ December 27, 2006, 07:30 PM: Message edited by: magnet-man ]


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

I have a group of B Weaver All Stars installed in June and one of them boils out at the slightest disturbance.


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

Jeannie - 

There's a saying, "All Beekeeping is local" and I believe it applies not only to things like timing and management style but to stock selection as well. Not to knock B. Weaver bees, or anyone else's for that matter, but I would recommend getting bees born and raised in your neck of the woods if at all possible. Success or failure at beekeeping depends more on beekeeper skill and understanding than it does on what you've got for bees. There'll be plenty of time to experiment, these won't be the last bees you buy.

Surely in northwest Georgia you can find other beekeepers that can help you get started. Talk to them, and ask around. Find out what kind of bees they're keeping and how they like them. You'll find lots of enthusiasm, offers of help, and plenty of advice. Beekeepers are nice people









That said, I've got one hive of Buckfast from B. Weaver headed by a spare queen a friend gave me last summer. They're doing fine and brooding up a storm. They're a bit pecky or as Joel would put it, "high spirited". I like them. Generally however, africanized genes not withstanding, I'd not be buying Texas bees to keep here in Maine.

George-


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## cmq (Aug 12, 2003)

Why do you want to go to Texas? Several suppliers are in your back yard. P.M. me & I'll be happy to supply supply you a list of queen breeders whose Bees/Queens are well suited to the South Eastern Applachians. Also, I would consider nucs instead of the package bees.


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## cmq (Aug 12, 2003)

Why go to Texas? Several suppliers are within easy driving distance from you. P.M. me for a list of suppliers w/ bees well suited to your area. Also, I would recommend nucs instead of package bees.


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

beesurv adds:
Also, I would consider nucs instead of the package bees.

tecumseh replies:
I would say there is no question that this would be my preferred option if I was just beginning raising bees for a number of reasons. the two primary reasons being 1)a less fragile unit and 2) a more immediate measure of the hive's persoanality.


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## jeannie (Dec 26, 2006)

Thanks for the thoughts and experiences. I have a mentor in Alabama. (just a short distance up the road) and he told me about weavers. I have justed Kelly's and one Kona Queen. But this year I'm expanding to 8 hives from 2. I thought local would be best or at least better, just inexperience shows her face. I have read a little bit about nucs but do not really understand the hows or whys. But I'm very willing to learn. I would greatly appericate any help with good breeders in the Rome, Ga. area or northwest ga. or even georgia for that matter. I started keeping bees last year to help pollinate our organic gardens and fell in love with the girls. Now I'm very worried about this winter and if they will have enough food. I tried to feed them earlier this month and starting a robbing!!!. I read about a candy board but don't understand, so if anyone could tell me of a better way to feed...thanks and your right beekeepers are great people!!!


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

jeannie,

Robbing is almost always a result of open feeding and usually involves Italian bees. A feeder should be inside the hive and the entrance should be reduced appropriately according to the size of the colony. It should be filled in late evening when there is not much chance to start robbing.

A candy board is just a very thick sugar fondant poured into a special top cover and placed on the bees. Instructions can be found in most general beekeeping books

Weavers queens are good performers but tend to have mostly Italian characteristcs. I would suggest as others have to get a nuc(s) from a local producer such as Don (fatbeeman) whose website is mentioned above. He produces Russian derived queens on small cell combs. He is located in Lula which is about an hour drive east of you.

If I had 2 colonies I would also order queens and split them in the spring. This would require a high level of management to ensure you have strong colonies ready to split by the 1st of April.

Darrel Jones


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## jeannie (Dec 26, 2006)

I did have the feeder inside the hive, but I didn't reduce the entrance and I put it in during the day. I work night shift so I did it just before I went to sleep and what a suprise when I got up!!! the only thing if I need to pull it out in the am its usually too cold. What could you suggest that might help? Also could you suggest readings on splits, I have bee keeping for dummies and backyard beekeeping.


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

In this case, I would recommend feeding sugar. This can be done by pulling several empty frames out and laying them on their sides, then pour the sugar into the cells and re-install the frame in the colony. Tilt the frame almost vertical and you can get some sugar into the other side without spilling the first side.

Get a copy of "The Hive and the Honeybee" and subscribe to either Bee Culture or The American Bee Journal.

http://www.beeculture.com/ see the link on the lower left to subscribe.

http://www.dadant.com/journal/ and email or phone to subscribe.

Darrel Jones


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## Grant (Jun 12, 2004)

On the whole, I've had really great service from B.Weaver. Their bees produce for me and I'm very happy. I don't use chemicals and these bees have worked in my natural IPM methods.

Yes, some of their bees have been testy, but so have bees from every other supplier I've worked with.

No one supplier has the monopoly on hot bees. The Weavers have tended to become the "straw man" in this discussion. 

And due to increasing AHB in areas of some southern raised queens, I've gone almost completely to raising my own local queens.

Grant
Jackson, MO


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## Aspera (Aug 1, 2005)

I don't know if they still operate, but I purchased some nice Italians from York which is quite close to you. This was in 2001 and the company may have changed hands since then.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

York is now Gardners.


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

jeannie sezs:
I did have the feeder inside the hive

tecumseh replies:
this suggest that either the hive was extemely weak or the feeder leaked. this kind of 'behavior' can also suggest that a queen is weak.

the best feeder I have used is a simple boardman feeder (quart jar with three small holes in the lid) built into migratory covers. placed directly over the cluster they seem to minimize robbing and I 'could' change them out at night, if I needed to do so.

jeannie adds:
I have read a little bit about nucs but do not really understand the hows or whys.

tecumseh replies:
the idea is to take a minimum of essential resources (honey, pollen, brood, bees) plot it in a smaller box (typically 4 to 5 frame), wait long enough for this split to realize they are queenless (12 to 24 hour) and then add a new queen (mated queen or queen cell).

now I have never really interacted beyond this virtual world with fatbeeman but any number of folks here have and seem to be quite pleased with his product. if you check on the 'for sale' section he is also planning to do a little bee school in the spring. 

grant adds:
No one supplier has the monopoly on hot bees. The Weavers have tended to become the "straw man" in this discussion.

tecumseh replies:
plus you have the continued problem of the homogonized weavers. so 'this' weaver is confused with 'that' weaver, who is then confused with 'that other' weaver. confused yet?


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## Rogerio (Mar 10, 2004)

Bjornbee, does Gardners have a website? I'd like to track down some of those Midnights, and York was the last I knew of to breed them.

Roger


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## Redneck (Oct 2, 2005)

I am not Bjornbee, but the information in the American Bee Journel doesn't list a website. Their address is Gardner's Apiaries, Spell Bee Co., 510 Patterson Road, Baxley,GA 31513---Phone # (912)367-9352, Fax: (912)367-7047. They are also saying that their prices are going down for 2007.


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## Panhandle Bee man (Oct 22, 2003)

Midnites, and starlines are a thing of the past.


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

"Robbing is almost always a result of open feeding"

I would disagree with this statement. The main reason I don't use NWC (tried them) down here is the small cluster when they are not laying. We have a long summer dearth and the NWC get smaller and smaller and unvariably get robbed out. It has nothing to do with feeding.


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## wayacoyote (Nov 3, 2003)

Ross makes a great point that speaks to why there isn't one "superbee" that is able to fit everyone's needs. Perhaps this explains why there's so many different races/ strains.
Waya


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

waya sezs:
Perhaps this explains why there's so many different races/ strains.

tecumseh suggest:
expaining the why of anytthing is a bit difficult wayacoyote. at least some fairly smart folks tend to believe, with a fairly high level of probability, that there are so many races of bees because the bees we now call the honeybee developed in europe, asia and africa under extreme environmental pressure in very isolated (island like) niche.

for certain when these races were discovered, people perceived different qualities or characteristics which they believe represented advantages (typically in being employed in some other geographical location from which they originally developed).


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## Aspera (Aug 1, 2005)

I think that the amount of diversity in bee behavior is truly amazing. No two queen producers seem to make the same product. Even more amazing is that only a few hundred queens (at most) have ever been imported into the US. Just imagine the variety of queens available in Africa (although most are probably mean little SOB's). In any case, Binford Weaver still makes a lot of productive queens, but some find them feisty.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

>Even more amazing is that only a few hundred queens (at most) have ever been imported into the US.

Is this true? Only a few hundred, until importation was stopped in 1921? Doesn't sound like a lot, does it?


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

More like a few thousand. The genetics of bees in the U.S. are severely limited by comparison with the available genetics in Europe and Africa.

Darrel Jones


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## JWG (Jun 25, 2004)

Regarding Weavers -- If they use no treatments, and they aren't on small cell, and they are flooding with European drones to prevent Africanization of their stock, then how are they maintaining their apiary populations? 

I have obtained Buckfast and All-Americans from them and had good success with them. Incidentally, one of the best colonies that I have maintained for several years with minimal mite loads has been a Buckfast (3rd generation mixed, by now).


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

jwg ask:
how are they maintaining their apiary populations? 

tecumseh ask back:
I am not sure I understand the total gist of your question?.... but...

I would think a little bit of the answer to your question(s) is that with a fairly handy and inexpensive source of queens they likely requeen quite often.

then jwg sezs:
Regarding Weavers

tecumseh repeats himself:
which weaver?

the jwg adds:
If they use no treatments, and they aren't on small cell, and they are flooding with European drones to prevent Africanization of their stock

tecumseh replies:
first off I believe one of the earlier poster may have given you the indication that navasota texas is highly infested with weavers and african honey bees. the first is likely and the last is more than a bit of an exageration. I do set right here next to the weaver geographically and would tell you directly that all the swarms I catch in season have sample drawn and sent to the state bee lab. Over the past several years about 1 in 12 will show some degree of hybradization. over a number of years I have yet to encounter or capture a purely ahb swarm.

lastly the flooding of an area with european drones is a long standing cultural practice of queen breeder over the southern us of a. this practice was done long before ahb were a concern and is implemented to inhance the proababilities of a desirable cross in a natural mating environment. a good queen breeder puts just as much time in selecting the male side of the cross as they do the female side.


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## JWG (Jun 25, 2004)

Thanks. What I meant to ask was, why aren't their apiaries all crashing from varroa infestations? I.e., how are they maintaining themselves, year to year, without treatments? This is a great selling point, but I'm curious how they manage.

It wouldn't be due to any Africanized stock mixing in, since their regular drone flooding (as you mention) would largely prevent breeding with any Afr. drones.

B. Weaver advertises that they don't use treatments.

[ January 14, 2007, 11:10 AM: Message edited by: JWG ]


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

jwg sezs:
I am not positive which Weaver advertises that they don't use treatments. I think it is R.

tecumseh replies:
I know that beneford weaver (b.weaver) does advertise in this way. I am not so certain that r weaver does the same.

the jwg sezs:
What I meant to ask was, why aren't their apiaries all crashing from varroa infestations?

tecumseh replies:
from my experience I would suggest that some folks are not experiencing the same level of problem with the varroa as are others. I could make the same 'guess' in regards to shb as well as any number of other problems associated with bee keeping. there are likely any number of explanations for this difference. I would suspect that some has to do with stock (and recent information on the likelyhood that ahb have acquired some resistance to the varroa 'without human intervention' does suggest why bweaver approach to this problem does make some sense), some has to do with climate (at the local level) and some has to do with individual beekeeping expertise and cultural practice associated with the keeping of bees. I am specualting a bit here, but based on infrequent observation I have always suspect that the fact that at the higher skill level the crew I associate with bweaver operation rarely changes. 

as is most typical with a living, breathing entity a list of associated variables gets to be quite extensive and the interaction of one variable with another becomes a bit tangled.

still not certain I fully answered your question jwg.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

tecumseh writes: and recent information on the likelyhood that ahb have acquired some resistance to the varroa 'without human intervention' does suggest why bweaver approach to this problem does make some sense

Dan asks: what bweaver approach to this problem are you referring to?


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

beemandan writes:
Dan asks: what bweaver approach to this problem are you referring to?

tecumseh replies:
the approach of not using chemicals to assist the bees in defending againist varroa. this translate on some time line to.... the survivors breed in future generation and therefore add survivor genes to the gene pool, those hives with genetic composition unable to tolerate varroa infestation are culled from the gene pool.


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## magnet-man (Jul 10, 2004)

According to Sue Cobey the alleles responsible for hygienic behavior is closely associated with the alleles for defensive behavior. If the Weaver bees are mite resistant because of hygiene than their defensive behavior is explained. Sue said you can breed the defensive behavior out. Unfortunately you have to do II to do that. It is one thing to breed it out in a closed population of 80 or so II colonies but another in several thousand openly mated colonies.

I expect the Weaver bees will get more defensive as the years go by. It is now possible to import semen legally from Europe, but I dont see any compelling reason why the Weavers would be interested in introducing non-varroa resistant genes.

[ January 15, 2007, 08:03 AM: Message edited by: magnet-man ]


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