# Splitting a feral colony without queen cells?



## GeneG (Jun 20, 2020)

My elderly neighbor is moving and gave his hive to another neighbor. The elderly neighbor has been unable to work his hive due to medical issues and it was basically untouched for at least 5 years. Some of the frames were dated over a decade ago! The receiving neighbor is brand new to beekeeping and I am going to help him out. It is a 10frame deep langstroth triple box in rough shape, so we will transfer the bees to a new hive in a few weeks (neighbor is building a new hive). 

Three levels of fully drawn dark brown to black comb, some old/empty swarm cells (I’m sure this colony has swarmed many times), great brood pattern on most frames in the top box. Middle box with good pollen and nectar and honey. Bottom box fully drawn but only some rare pollen/nectar. Fat bottomed queen in the top box. And other than ants, ZERO hive beetles or wax moths or evidence thereof (lovely pile of debris on the screened bottom board insert). I didn’t do a varroa count, but given no one touched/treated this hive for years, they would not have survived without some degree of hygienic behaviour (decent amount of hives in the general area and I need to treat my colonies for mites).

I would love a split from this colony given their likely pest resistant qualities. We are the middle of the flow in the DC area. My neighbor can take the queen and most of the hive, but I wanted to grab maybe two frames of brood with eggs and see if they would raise a queen for me as a “walkaway“ split. Good idea? I don’t want to let good genetics get away...


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

GeneG said:


> I wanted to grab maybe two frames of brood with eggs and see if they would raise a queen for me as a “walkaway“ split. Good idea? I don’t want to let good genetics get away...


Why not?
I'd do it.

In fact, know people *sell *just the frames with eggs.


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## fieldsofnaturalhoney (Feb 29, 2012)

GeneG said:


> Good idea? I don’t want to let good genetics get away...


Great ideal, maybe an even better ideal is to graft from them. Either way you will only be getting half of their genetics. This is interesting, "(decent amount of hives in the general area and I need to treat my colonies for mites)", & I assume others in the area do too? Yet this "gem" is surviving in the neighborhood without? Be aware that their is a possibility that it keeps taking in swarming bees every so often. Also be aware that those frames may not come out easily  Also without knowing if they truly have lived for 5 consecutively years without treatments, I wouldn't count my chickens before they hatch?


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## GeneG (Jun 20, 2020)

It is possible that these are subsequent swarms. But I’ve watched this hive from afar for the past three summers and it has always seemed active. The hive next to it has been ”dead” for at least as long. The neighbor who has adopted it has noted it to be active for at least nine years and has never seen it worked (He can see it from his house). We live in a semi rural area and there are at least three dozen hives within a square mile. My mite counts are fairly low, but I treat pretty religiously. 

Breaking into that hive was “fun”. SO MUCH PROPOLIS! I broke two of the frames but managed to get the rest out intact. No mite frass on any of the empty (but drawn) frames.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

GeneG said:


> But I’ve watched this hive from afar for the past three summers and it has always seemed active.


This does not mean much without the factual observation (not from a distance).

Every summer you could be seeing different bees just as well.
That hive very well could be a swarm magnet.

A swarm could have survived one winter (common enough) - then died in the second winter.
Then some early spring robbing took place - that's an "active" hive when looking from afar.
Then a new swarm moved in - the hive is STILL appearing active.

Pretty soon you have a hive that has been "active" for 5-10 years non-stop.

You get the picture.

Based on the bee density in your area (......at least three dozen hives within a square mile .......), there is no way these are some kind of magic "feral" bees that survived the mite pressure all this time continuously (even if swarming). I went through this drill already.


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