# I need some help concerning topbars.



## Bush_84 (Jan 9, 2011)

1 1/4 for the brood. 1 1/2 for the honey. 1 3/8 for either. Where they are located depends on the location of the entrance. Brood bars close to the entrance. Keep giving them brood bars until you notice that they start storing away honey in bars then add the 1 1/2 bars. You could always use the 1 3/8 bars if you run out of 1 1/4 or are unsure if they are going to start storing honey or not.


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## Solomon Parker (Dec 21, 2002)

The best solution I have seen (not done, but in the plans) courtesy of Sam Comfort was to make all top bars 1 1/4" and also make 1/4" spacers for use in honey areas.


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## SteveBee (Jul 15, 2010)

We started some hives with all 1 3/8 bars, and started some with 1 1/4 for brood and 1 3/8 for honey. Even on the 1 3/8 bars, we used 1/4" spacers when they made extra deep honey bars. The spacers seem like a lot of extra work, but they're not. With our attic-style roofs, you can leave several spacer laying on the top bars so they're handy when you need them.


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## whalers (Jun 4, 2011)

I'm new to top bar. What are you using for spacers?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

If I had to rip my 1 1/2" bars, I might go with the spacers, but since that is the width of a one by two, I don't rip them at all. I only have to rip the 1 1/4" bars... and I don't make any 1 3/8" ones. I tried all the same size and the bees build the comb in the brood nest 1 1/4" on center on my 1 1/2" bars. So I tried all 1 3/8" bars. Same thing. And they would build the honey thicker regardless of the width of my bars. So rather than fight them I decided to go with two sizes, one for brood (1 1/4") and one for honey (1 1/2"). You may do what you like, but the bees will do what they do...


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

I have a friend intent on doing top bar. It seems to me, that if foundationless is tough in high temperatures, top bars must have even more collapses? Does anyone know?


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## taydeko (Jan 3, 2012)

> It seems to me, that if foundationless is tough in high temperatures, top bars must have even more collapses?


Top bars can be susceptible to collapse, of course in high temperatures. For those of us who live in hot climates there are several management techniques to help prevent this. Of course you need to take care in handling the comb, keeping it always aligned properly to keep it from breaking off the comb, regardless of weather. In hot weather it is probably best to avoid opening and inspecting the comb. The design of the hive and the bars are also key in preventing collapse. In hotter climates, the bars should be longer and the hive shallower to prevent very deep combs that easily break off the top bars. A triangular profile on the bars also gives them more surface area for comb attachment which can help prevent collapse. Finally the shape of the hive can help. Kenya TBHs reduce the weight of the comb because of the angled sides. This reduces the weight at the ends where the comb is likely to break off. The KTBH shape is also beneficial because it keeps the comb from hitting the sides of the hive when the bars are lifted for inspection, further reducing the chances of breaking the comb of the bar. As the bars are lifted the edges of the comb are instantly further away from the hive sides. In a Tanzania TBH, with straight sides, you have to pull the comb straight up for the entire depth of the comb, which is more difficult.

Ted


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## rtoney (Apr 20, 2011)

When placing the top bars do you go 1 1/2, 1 1/4, 1 1/2 etc or do you place 1 1/2, 1 1/2, 1 1/2, 1 1/4, 1 1/4 etc?


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

Can I just cut 1 x 2's and place them in supers, put a bottom and a top and an entry hole on it, and call it a top bar swarm trap? (nope, not joking... trying to cut expenses on my swarm traps and get more more more out...)

Gypsi


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## Bush_84 (Jan 9, 2011)

rtoney- 1/4, 1/4, 1/4, 1/2, 1/2, 1/2 put them in that configuration assuming you have an entrance on the end of the hive. If you have a central entrance the hive will more likely look like this

1/2, 1/2, 1/2, 1/4, 1/4, 1/4, 1/2, 1/2

The bees want to put their brood nest next to the entrance in a top bar hive. They then place their honey stores outside the brood nest.

Gypsi-You can do anything you want for a swarm trap, but if you are not going to transfer the swarm right away, you will want to make it compatible with your top bar hive. That means top bars that are exactly the same as your main hives and a swarm trap that is exactly the same as your main hives. If they are not compatible then you are in for some work if they have started building comb by the time you transfer them. I basically made mini TBHs that are just shorter.


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## thomasj (Jul 21, 2011)

Then do you still put a space in between the bars. If you do that puts the centers off. Am I following what you are saying?


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## lavert5 (Mar 6, 2011)

All of my top bars are 1 1/2 and I dont have any problems so far. The bees make brood on the ones they want and store honey where they want anyway. Just rip 2X4's to make them.


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## thomasj (Jul 21, 2011)

what I am not getting is do you space your topbars like you do with regular frames?


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## thomasj (Jul 21, 2011)

i'm talking about when you convert a lang to use topbars instead of frames


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## lavert5 (Mar 6, 2011)

You would have to leave bee space somewhere for the bees to go up through the boxes in a converted lang. In a kenyan style top bar the bars are usually tight side by side.


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## thomasj (Jul 21, 2011)

I was just thinking about running some topbars in my langs because I always have alot of wood laying around and you know hoe expensive frames can be. Just wondering if anyone is doing that. How much space do you think I would need to leave open for that to work?


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## Mtedcarr4 (May 20, 2010)

this is kinda what is done in a Warre hive is to use top bars in stead of frames (they do more than this though ) I use all 1 1/4 top bars with spacers. Sometimes they warp & build up propolis making them 1 5/16 or bigger.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

How big are those spacers? (I definitely have bee fever... and 1x2 ... no time to build a top bar but those 2 empty supers are beckoning to me, wanting to be bee traps..)


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## taydeko (Jan 3, 2012)

> Can I just cut 1 x 2's and place them in supers, put a bottom and a top and an entry hole on it, and call it a top bar swarm trap?


You could certainly do that. You are effectively creating a Tanzania top bar hive. If your intention is to use a Kenyan TBH, you would want to make sure that your traps are the same shape as your hives. So you could add inner side walls at the same angle as your hive pretty easily. If you watch your traps very closely, and can transfer the swarm immediately to their new final home, the shape of the trap might not be a problem. You would also want to have some kind of comb guides on the top bars to keep the new comb the swarm builds straight. Otherwise you would probably have a huge mess on your hands if you didn't get to the trap right away.


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