# New, can't find queen



## MeBee (Jul 18, 2012)

Hi, I received my Nuc only a month ego so a late start. First inspection looked fine, I had a marked queen, 3 weeks latter (yesterday), I could not find a queen so I took pictures after initial panic. My observations today
1. I think I do have a queen just not sure its the same one.
2. The hive was calm until I dropped a frame, they calmed down when I put all frames back.
3. The bees did not fill out all the frames. 
4. I have no idea what I'm doing
5. I gave the syrup to see if it will help.

Love some advise

I'm located in NH so our summers are short
hope this upload works.
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.2378553239676.65540.1726010197&type=3&l=36a0105a05


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## doggonegardener (Dec 8, 2011)

It's time for some heavy reading... Don't panic. You'll be fine. Pick up a good beginning beekeeping book or spend a good amount of time looking here http://www.bushfarms.com/bees.htm and you will find the information you need to know what you're looking for, how to better handle frames, and other very good, general and specific beekeeping information. Michael covers it ALL. Having some good knowledge under your belt will help you with stress and worry. Leave the rest to the bees. They KNOW what to do, with or without you.


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## MeBee (Jul 18, 2012)

I read and read but I'm not sure if I'm correct what I am looking at. I also spent a few weeks reading posts and looking at picture. I will also read the link you sent. I could not find a queen but I did find broad at all stages. I'm not sure I can recognize a un marked queen.


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## JonD (Jul 14, 2012)

If you have brood in all stages, you had a queen 3 days ago. You probably still do. Queens are hard to see.


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## vstoltzfus (Jun 4, 2011)

MeBee, I am a relatively new beekeeper (this is my second summer), and I, too, have trouble finding the queen. There are just too many bees in the hive! My mentor told me to look for signs that she's present: eggs and larvae. If I see those in a good pattern, then I'm satisfied. I have gotten much more confident this second summer than I was last summer, and I'm sure you'll figure out what you're doing, too. Please try to join a bee club. They are very helpful!


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## Andrew Dewey (Aug 23, 2005)

Don't worry that you can't find the queen. It is obvious from the pictures that you at least had one three days ago and that she is probably still there. That said, the number of bees in the hive is not especially robust for this time of year and so it seems likely (to me) that your marked queen was superceded and replaced. The fact that there are not tons of bees in the colony is a reasonable explanation for the limited amount of brood you have now.

By my way of doing things you should have been feeding syrup right along - when a nuc first starts out it doesn't have a fully functional field force (yet) and you make life much easier for them by providing syrup. That you didn't is now water over the dam and your concern now needs to turn to getting the hive ready for winter.

To winter successfully they will need to have all the comb in their box drawn out and it would be better if they had a 2nd deep with all the frames drawn out in that too. The 2nd deep should be largely filled with honey so that as the bees work their way topwards over the winter they have enough food.

I put my hives on a scale and weigh them in early October and give supplemental feed to hives that weigh less than I want them to going into winter. You need to get the bees to draw out comb ASAP so that they'll have room for all the stores they will need.

Can you do it? Yes, but as with many agricultural endeavors there are no guarantees. Give them 2:1 (two parts water:1 part sugar) now and switch to 1:1 in early October. Consider feeding pollen if the hive does not have much in the way of stored pollen. Pollen = food for baby bees. You need to boost the hives' overall population of bees and get them the food they need to winter on.

Heck, you are in New Hampshire - you have months to go before winter. Consider (if you can) attending EAS in Burlington later this month. In addition to their main conference they have intensive bee schools! See www.easternapiculture.org for more info.


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## doggonegardener (Dec 8, 2011)

MeBee,

I hadn't seen your link to pictures. Missed those until just now. With that black foundation it should be pretty easy to see eggs in the cells if they are present. As long as you have eggs then enjoy the hive and look for the queen as an aside. When you relax a bit, you just might find her. It's really not important at all though unless you are just interested in practicing spotting her. Michael Bush has some excellent advice on spotting queens. First...relax and believe she's there to be found. Then look on the frame with the most brood. Look from the middle of the brood pattern out. Look for the bee that moves differently than all the others. I thought it would be tougher than it is to find an unmarked queen. I had marked queens delivered and one of them failed. Then I did a split from another hive as well so now I have one marked and two unmarked. I can usually find all three but maybe it's because I am just not looking that hard. Just enjoy the miracle that is the hive and you'll find her. She moves steadily across the frame with purpose. The other bees move out of her way. My queens are a little different color than my bees and drones. They are a deep golden color. My queens have hardly any hair. That makes them stand out as well. Breath a sigh, check for eggs and don't worry...beeee happy.


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## Keth Comollo (Nov 4, 2011)

Looks okay but not real strong. Perhaps it is my eyes but I see no stores of nectar or pollen in any of your photos. I would feed 2:1 syrup as much as they will take for the rest of the season. In your climate (same as mine almost) you want them in two deeps and the top deep being full of honey.

Good luck!


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## MeBee (Jul 18, 2012)

Thank you everybody! 
Already put a medium on top, should I change it tomorrow? I did see bees bring in pollen, will try to collect some for them. I will try to go to the short course at EAS conference.


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## indypartridge (Nov 18, 2004)

vstoltzfus said:


> Please try to join a bee club. They are very helpful!


Yes! Clubs are great places to find mentors and get connected to nearby beekeepers:
http://www.nhbeekeepers.org/LocalClubs.htm

http://www.massbee.org/links


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

It looks like they are being robbed to me. Even a weak colony should have stores in a year like this. And like Keth pointed out that hive is barren. 

Reduce the entrance and get syrup on them... They might have a chance, but it will be a long shot.


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## MeBee (Jul 18, 2012)

bluegrass - I only had the nuc for a month. Their are no other bee hives anywhere near them. Also we had a drought and very high temperatures. NH has a very different climate than Danbury, CT. When driving south their is a point in CT were suddenly the air becomes much more humid.

I do wounder some of precautions I will need to take for the winter. Will moving the hive down hill in the winter against the barn door have any effect on the bees. I'm also thinking of building a roof from the snow. I will not move the bees near the tree line because of all the micro burst we are having

Clubs are not active until Sept.


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## Keth Comollo (Nov 4, 2011)

I would leave the bees where they are and feed them starting today. Don't worry about microbursts, just put a couple of rocks on top of it and they will be fine.


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## Andrew Dewey (Aug 23, 2005)

It is easy to over think beekeeping. Don't. Get feed on now. Do not use an entrance type feeder but instead either a division board feeder or one that goes on top of the hive. You should be prepared to feed this hive gallons (over time, not all at once) of syrup. Keth is closer to your location than I am and knows of what he speaks.


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## MeBee (Jul 18, 2012)

I started feeding them Sunday. I will try to gather pollen from the few blooming flowers. The feeder I have is inserted between frames.


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## Keth Comollo (Nov 4, 2011)

Let the bees gather the pollen. Goldenrod is blooming right now and a good source. Keep the feeder full of syrup and hope they build enough to get a good sized cluster for winter.


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

MeBee:

My bees are all in Central VT. I started keeping bees in VT 20 something years ago and still keep them there now even though I have relocated south. 
If you were up in Coos county or something I would agree that you have no other bees around...But I have customers in your area of the country and I know there are bees near by. Lots of them... Just this year alone I sold nearly 100 packages to beekeepers in that area.


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## MeBee (Jul 18, 2012)

Bluegrass - do you really think that in one month a very small nuc could have build up reserves and were robed? I do have considerably more bees now than a few weeks ego. I will reduce the entrance but weather this year was very unusual we went from 50 and all rain to 90 and drought, unlike other years I have nothing blooming were the bees are located.


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

This has been a pretty good honey season in many areas in New England. I think that even a weak hive should have some stores in it, I don't even see a trace of nectar anywhere in those pics.

Even if they are not being robbed, it will not hurt to reduce the entrance and try and prevent any robbing.


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## MeBee (Jul 18, 2012)

I wounder how much honey production did I lose because the guy who sold them to me refused to give them to me for 2 and half months.


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

First year nucs will rarely produce a surplus, but it should be a minimum of 20 drawn deeps at this point, and probably 40 in a year like this.

I have first year packages that drew 20 deeps, 10 mediums and filled the mediums with honey this season... they were hived the first week of May. That is without feeding sugar syrup.

Have you thought about putting this nuc in an Observation hive and wintering them indoors? It would be fun to watch and would give you the best control over feeding.


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## MeBee (Jul 18, 2012)

I could put the hive in the barn for the winter but not sure how an observation hive would work. what about cleansing flights?


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## MeBee (Jul 18, 2012)

so how many pounds of honey did I miss out on?


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

I have used PVC pipe to a nearby window so they could fly. Works pretty well.

Hard to say, but I think a nuc this season in your area should have had at least 30 lbs of surplus if started in April/May.


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## Keth Comollo (Nov 4, 2011)

You lost a lot for sure. A good season here in New England. A wee bit more rain is needed to make it a banner year. Despite that your goal is to make sure they have a large happy healthy broodnest going into winter with enough stores to survive. Don't stop feeding and if you don't see them bringing in pollen consider throwing a pollen patty on them. I doubt you will need that though as goldenrod pollen is coming in by the boatloads here right now.

Read a book or two and get into the bee groove. Beekeeping for Dummies is actually a great book. I suggest it to many people.


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## MeBee (Jul 18, 2012)

I did an inspection at beginning of sundown today I so: 
1. about 10 times more bees than a week ego. 
2.plenty of syrup from last week not eaten (not sure it was even touched)
3. more caped brood than before.
4. No new drawn out frames. When I tried to pull the frames they noticed me started flying at me, could not see much without a camera anyway.
5 Nothing in the upper supra but the were trying to build on queen exclude so I removed it.
6. The supra boxes I bought are so crappy that the bees can fit between them.
7. are they are still being robbed? What can I do.
8. still deciding on a 3 1/2 hour drive to the conference tomorrow, is it worth it to take the 2 day short course?

Thank you


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

MeBee said:


> I did an inspection at beginning of sundown today I so:
> 1. about 10 times more bees than a week ego.
> 2.plenty of syrup from last week not eaten (not sure it was even touched)
> 3. more caped brood than before.
> ...


What type of feeder do you have on? If top feeder the Qx could explain why they are not taking the feed. The fall flow could also explain it. I would just leave the feed on them so that if they want it they can get to it.

By "fit between the boxes" you mean there are gaps between when you stack the boxes? Was in new or used equipment? If it was new that is an issue with the boxes getting assembled crooked. If they are not glued you can take them apart and fix that. Otherwise tape up the seams as that gives them extra space to guard and waste resources. 



They may not put away stores. Bees have to be selected to be productive and sometimes a queen is just not productive. 

The Conference would be a great experience. I wouldn't miss it.... but then somehow do every year


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

If there are wide gaps between boxes I would put tape over them to prevent unwanted bees from entering.

Someone referred to 2:1 syrup as being two parts water to one sugar. Normally, when referring to syrup, 2:1 is TWO sugar to ONE water. 

I don't know what size boxes you're using but you might want to get things setup for Winter. Michael Bush uses a 5:3 syrup regardless of the season. Five sugar...

What is the hive configuration? 8 frame, 10 frame, deep/medium? Think Winter.


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## MeBee (Jul 18, 2012)

I have a 10 frame deep with medium on top currently the feeder is in place of one of the frames. Originally I did 2sugar to one water but this time I changed to 2 water one sugar because of the previous recommendation. The area behind the hive is all forest, neighbors have plenty of planted flowers. It looks like the top of the box is not perfectly straight, will make my own in the future. I did seal all holes when painting but the bees are small and resourceful. 

I am thinking winter but the bees seem to be less concerned than me about it. I can try baggy on top with 5:3 and see what happens but it really looks like they are not interested.
I will go with a camera and take picture again, I'm finding it very hard to know what I'm looking at without enlarging pictures.
All of the advice is very appreciated.


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## MeBee (Jul 18, 2012)

The hive is also too light, I picked it up yesterday to align everything better. Any advise to make them put away reserves?


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## activematrix (May 10, 2012)

Dont worry about sealing holes. The bees do a great job of it themselves! Feed them 1:1 sugar syrup unless it is starting to get cold out, and then give them 2:1 sugar:water.


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