# back woods swarm capture



## Black Creek (May 19, 2006)

this past spring i found a large number of bees working some flowers in the mountains. it's public land and the closest private property is, i'm guessing, at least a mile away maybe 2. i had hiked to a summit on about a 5 mile trail when i found them. i was thinking about putting a swarm trap out there and see if i cant get one next spring. i figured i'd get a commercially made trap. the brown paper mache bucket type and a commercial lure. i'm guessing the commercial swarm lures last a lot longer. do they last the whole season or do they vary by manufacturer? what i'm envisioning is... put the trap in my backpack and take it up near that summit early in the year. i'm guessing mid to late febuary if lures last a long time. check on it periodically. and if i'm lucky and find i have a swarm, i'd put on my suit, get the trap down, plug the opening and pack it up in my back pack and hike back out to my truck. is this feasible?? i've never actually seen these traps 1st hand, only online. can i just cork it up with something to keep the bees in? i dont want to hike all the way down the mountain with my suit and veil on. will the lures last long enough or should i replace it several times? how long should i go between checking on it? after all, it's a few miles hike in AND a couple hour drive, but i enjoy the area and dont mind looking for excuses to go more often.


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## naturebee (Dec 25, 2004)

--i'm guessing the commercial swarm lures last a lot longer. do they last the whole season or do they vary by manufacturer?--([email protected]) 

I recommend to get yourself some lemon grass oil, its much cheaper and just as effective. 
We have resources for obtaining ingredients and recipes over on the Feral Bee Project.

-- is this feasible??--([email protected])

Yes, I backpack a few homemade traps each spring up to three miles in the woodlands. I time the trap placements to coincide with my morel picking trips. 

--i've never actually seen these traps 1st hand, only online. can i just cork it up with something to keep the bees in? --([email protected])

My opinion is that these commercial traps are junk and not worth the price, and you could better build one yourself. Also, I doubt they can be effectively sealed to keep the bees in.

--will the lures last long enough or should i replace it several times? how long should i go between checking on it?--([email protected])

You only need to have lures last about 2 to 3 months of the prime swarming time. Comercial will usually last the required time. But I prefer to melt a lure along with lemongrass oil into a beeswax mold and devide it amoung all my traps, hanging the wax lure inside the trap, lures last much longer when incorporated into beeswax. 

--after all, it's a few miles hike in AND a couple hour drive, but i enjoy the area and dont mind looking for excuses to go more often--([email protected])

I would check the traps every two weeks or so. If you need to get out of the house, just tell the wife that they need to be checked every week.









If you are successful in catching these remote ferals, I would enjoy hearing how they compare to other not so remote types. Be sure to keep records.

My remote ferals are doing very well for me!
Good Luck!

Best Wishes,


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## Black Creek (May 19, 2006)

i've done a few searches for plans on swarm traps, but i havent found much to go on other than take a bucket, cut a hole in it and ad the lure to it. seems that smooth plastic isnt a very inviting place for tiny little bee feet to get traction on. that's why i was thinking the commercial trap would be better. especially since it'd be unattended for a couple weeks at a time, i want them to be comfy in there ! 

you mentioned melting lure, lemongrass oil in a beeswax mold. what is the lure your using with the lemongrass oil. 

i'm looking to increase, and really interested in increasing with ferals.

wish we had morels down here. never heard of anyone finding them around here tho.


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

I would build a nuc box with a solid bottom and a screen top. I would drill a 3/4 to 1 in. hole 2 or 3 inches below the top. I would put a temp. telescopic top over the screen to keep out light and rain. Once the swarm is established in the nuc, plug the hole and carry it out with the top open for ventilation. The frames can then be moved to a full sized hive after they draw out approx. 4 of the frames. Below is a photo of a nuc, if you aren't familiar with them. It is just a hive that has been built to hold 4, 5, or 6 frames.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j226/Iddee/bees022.jpg

As for checking, a swarm will weigh from 3 to 5 lbs. and can add 2 to 3 lbs. of wax, pollen, and nectar per day. Add that to the weight of the nuc, and you can decide how much you want to carry.


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## naturebee (Dec 25, 2004)

Hello [email protected]!

A commercial trap would not necessarily be more comfy than a homemade trap.









My experience is that the commercial traps may not be as effective in some woodland habitats if ther is potential of other larger voids, ALL competing against your trap. 

The commercial pulp traps Ive seen will probably not take the abuse of hiking them out of the woods. One bump or fall, and I could just about guarantee bees escaping the trap.

Plans arent necessary for building a trap, traps can be made from just about anything and any size.

Heres some unusual traps that I use in my photo album
http://new.photos.yahoo.com/naturebee/album/576460762350195666

--you mentioned melting lure, lemongrass oil in a beeswax mold. what is the lure your using with the lemongrass oil.--([email protected])

I made my own lures using the 1:1:1 mixture of citral:geraniol:nerolic + geranic acids as described previously (Schmidt and Thoenes, 1992)

This is the same recipe used in most commercial lures. But some commercial lure producers claim a secret ingredient is also added. This secret ingredient is really not needed according to research, and I would guess that it may be a drop of Anise, citrus oil or other known attractants such as cinnamon oil, cajeput oil etc. 

You really do not need to buy lures as all the ingredients mentioned in the Schmidt and Thoenes recipe are contained in the more affordable lemongrass oil.

--i'm looking to increase, and really interested in increasing with ferals.--([email protected])

Ive been specifically targeting ferals since 1995 after the varroa crashes. The ferals I have are doing so well in comparison to my domestics, I found the need to requeen all my commercially produced stock. Ive been all feral stock for several years now.


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## Black Creek (May 19, 2006)

well.... i'd already thought about the nuc idea. problem i was seeing was getting it up high in a tree. i figured one of those brown traps wouldnt be too hard to hoist up in the air. i was reading about it being better to have it up high to attract the bees, plus animals messing with it. i want to hang it to keep raccoons and who knows what away from it. my dad has land near there and we have an occasional bear around. in fact, this season he found where someone set up a bear bait station on his property to poach bears. you could see claw marks all over that plastic thing. so... the weight isnt a concern i guess. i do some backpacking with way more weight than a little wooden nuc. i just dont know how i would hang it. i guess i can tie a rope around it... or a netted sack and hoist it up. i guess i just envision one of those brown paper mache traps swinging in the breeze with out much problem, but a wooden box i picture smashing against a limb or something. plus i think someone is less likely to spot one of those brown bucket shaped things than a right angled box in the air.

maybe one of those waxed cardboard nuc boxes may be best? easy to pack it in flat. if it swings too much it shouldnt bust open. i've never tried any of this before, so i might just be off track on the whole process.


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## spunky (Nov 14, 2006)

Ok someone

Does anybody have any data on how far a hive will swarm/ and from how far away, a swarm will be attracted to the lemon grass lure. Oh yea; how much to use per trap ????


Thanks

I just signed up for the feral bee and organic beekeepers groups on yahoo


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## wade (Apr 1, 2006)

Hey newbeematt,

I've been contemplating the trap thing too, and here's what I've come up with. I know of at least 2 bee trees that I will set up traps near.

There are plenty of crotches to wedge a box up into. That is way more stable than free-hanging, although I can see how doing that would make it easier and safer to get the trap down. Doing any kind of over-head work with a box is tough and kinda dangerous. The lighter the better no matter what you do. Anyway, I'm going to make some traps out of light material like 1/2" plywood, with the 10-frame langstroth design, and paint them drab colors. Bees prefer a larger cavity like that and by using something smaller you're eliminating the possibility of a desirable large swarm. The camaflouge will minimize somebody spotting and monkeying with it. 

Its important to be able to lift the frames out of the trap. I've never used the peat traps you're asking about, but I think the bees start building directly to it, and if so then any work they do before you collect them will be destroyed if not during the trip back, then when you transfer it from the trap.

In my vision I can't imagine packing any kind of beehive with bees out on your back, but instead holding it out in front to minimize damage to the bees. Even taking a wheel barrow out there might be something to consider and is a good idea since there's a trail. The swaying and dipping motion of carrying them on your back will certainly result in smashed bees and maybe a smashed queen.

On reflection that peat swarm trap might be a good way to go if its large enough, and you can figure a way to seal the bees in. What you suggested initially would be worth a shot. I hope you let us know how it went. But the more often you check on it the better.

When the nicer colonies will throw the first big swarm is fairly predictable if you get a lot of rain or dreariness then a nice day or two in mid to late April. I'd check every few days during those conditions, late afternoon on the second nice day which immediately follows the dreary days. The swarm will issue around noon on the first nice day and hang somewhere, then go to your trap the next day. If the nice days are more frequent then its harder to predict. And if you are in a position to check right away when these good conditions arise then the peat trap is a good way to go, maybe the best way.

The quandary here is, if its more of a removable frame design then you can check on them once a week, month, or whenever.


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## Black Creek (May 19, 2006)

ok... i was under the impression that swarming could start as early as beginning of march. i'll wait a bit longer. i doubt the wheelbarrel idea will work in this situation. we're talking about a trail up to a 4000+ foot peak. although i guess the trap doesnt have to be all the way up there. and it's a pretty rough trail mostly. it's a side loop trail off of the Appalachian Trail. i think it'd be a bouncy ride in a wheel barrel. plus, i'd have to take the wheel barrel up there every time i checked on it in case a swarm was there. although the looks i'd get from other hikers may make that entertaining enough to try !!







after reading these replies, i think i'm gonna go with a light weight nuc. one made of the thinest plywood that will work. painted in a non-eye catching colour. prolly hoisted up by rope, either snug up to the branch to help immobilize it, or maybe because of animals, hanging below the branch with another rope pulling straight down on it to keep it from swinging violently. although i dunno how attractive a fresh hive of bees would be to critters out there. may not be a problem at all.

still not quite sure of how i'll do the lure yet. the 'melted into beeswax' Pcolar mentioned sounds promising. not sure how much to use tho. can you use too much lure? would it be best to put 2 or more traps out on the mountain to increase my chances? how far apart should traps be stationed?


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## wade (Apr 1, 2006)

Regarding when swarms will issue, I'm using a single season (this Spring) as the reference, in my area.


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

I make my own traps out of Sono Tube. I use 12" tube cut 2-4 foot in length. I use pine cut to fit in both ends and then screw a square piece of pine to that and drill a whole in one end. They are nice and light until the bees move in.


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

Normally, the swarms here are busiest in April, but 2005 and 2006, most hives swarmed in March. I would have the traps out at latest, Mar. 10. Maybe a mountain bicycle????


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## dickm (May 19, 2002)

Suggest you take a styrofoam cooler of a size to put 5 or so frames in. Rig some #8 wire as a sort of inner cover. (Bees willsmother in the heat of packing out and driving. Glue some straps for packing to this. Make an entrance and a cork to close it. Paint it green. I'd forget about hoisting it in a tree. I cant believe the bees would favor a moving target. Find a crotch to wedge it in. Hunters use something called tree steps. Light and easy to use you could get up a tree and with a screw gun and a few boards make a shelf. Take the tree steps with you. 
It sounds like so much fun it makes me want to go find such a site. 

Dickm


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## Ron Young (Aug 16, 2006)

Are there any tricks to locating a remote colony? I was unsure if there would be any trick to locating the colony, and thus getting the swarm trap closer to the colony. I have never been fortunate enough to locate a colony in a hollow tree, despite looking for one when I lived in the mountains.


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## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

Ron

do a search on "bee lining"
it's been discussed a lot

Dave


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## naturebee (Dec 25, 2004)

--Are there any tricks to locating a remote colony?-- NCBeginner 

Hello NC!

Ive placed feeding stations at intervals along ridge roads, up high and back out of view a bit. Then a drive by pulling over without leaving the truck I can check for foragers with the binoculars. Then if visitors of the Apis type are present, I can bee line them.

For the very remote ferals, Ive taken foragers from my colonies, fed them, and released them at a remote location. These lost foragers will immediately begin searching for a new home. When they find a new home, they will dance the location of the reward and bring back foragers that I can beeline. Often, the nest they find will be up wind, so I've learned to try and pick a spot that has terrain up wind that I can manage reasonably well without killing my self. 

All traps, even in remote locations, I try and place near large objects, fence rows or other land marks that scouts seem to be attracted to.

[ November 30, 2006, 07:21 PM: Message edited by: Pcolar ]


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## wayacoyote (Nov 3, 2003)

Should traps have entrances painted a certain color (ie violet)to make them more noticable to scouts? What deminsions should the hole/ cavity be?

Waya


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## naturebee (Dec 25, 2004)

Hello Waya!

I was on my porch one day and noticed a scout hovering about one foot from the house. I followed her has she hovered facing the house and slowly moved up and down along where the windows and door frames met, looking for an entrance. I believe that scouts are also sniffing the air, as any void would have air escaping from the entrance with the smells of the void caused by the heat of the day, which may indicate the presence of a void. BTW, tipped off by the scout, I then went to the bee yard and found a swarm hanging in a tree.

I know that many have had success with entrances facing any old direction. But this scout did spend MUCH more time on the south side of the house, and less on the west and north side as she searched. So, I would make sure the entrance is contrasted well, and place it in partial sun to permit the interior to warm and expel scent, facing south. Holes the size of ¾ to 1 inch work well for me. For some reason, my speaker traps with entrance toward the bottom are highly successful. Ive also had great success with hive bodies placed on mobile homes and sheds with the entrance facing south extending out over the edge of the structures roof. But I do place the traps up on boards to get them off the hot roof a bit.


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## Panhandle Bee man (Oct 22, 2003)

When I used to live in PA, I would make swarm traps to take into the woods and place near bee trees that I found. I used scrap paneling, 1"x strips, and 1/2 or 3/4 plywood. I would contruct the proper sized box (for what size frames you are using) using the 1" and paneling, then make make the tops out of the plywood. I would nail/glue the paneling so it would be sealed tight, drill either a 1/2" or 3/4" in the front of the box, then screw the top to the box. Then I would place 4 eye screws into the top. For paint I would use ugly flat greens and browns (camoflauge). Once I got to the tree I wanted to place the box into I would use a light weight rope (the trap will only weigh 20-30 pounds max), and throw it over a limb. secure your trap to the rope and hoist. Once it was high enough tie off the rope. Once you have captured a swarm you only have to lower the trap down, and secure the enterance with some screen. You shouldn't need a veil if you work fast and steady. Then you can easily transfer the frames into a hive in your bee yard. You can make several of these boxes and use them for Nucs, collecting swarms etc. For you area I would place the box in the woods in early March.


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## sierrabees (Jul 7, 2006)

I've had some success using the five dollor cardboard nuc boxes from Mann Lake. They are lightweight, you can plug the entrance easisly with either the plastic plugs they sell or duct tape. One frame of old brood comb, some empty old comb with a strip of foundation, some lemon grass oil on a cottonball inside the box, and you don't have the weight of a wood box or nuc to carry. You don't have to locate a wild hive if there are feral bees in the area. The bees prefer to re-settle half a mile or more from their original hive. They like an area about 10 feet above the ground that gets morning sun and afternoon shade. The west side of a clearing is a good location. I can set one of these up for a lot less than I can buy the wood to make a nuc. It will last one season quite well. If it is protected from the sun during the heat of the day you might get two years out of them. With the parafin coating they come with, they hold up well to rain.


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## Kevin M (Aug 11, 2006)

This is a great, informative thread..I was just wondering, what a county or state parks ranger would have to say, if anything.Is it legal to catch feral bees on public lands...? I know its forbidden to take plants, game out of season, etc.on public lands where i live...


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesferal.htm


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## wayacoyote (Nov 3, 2003)

Kevin,
As a National Park Ranger, I can tell you that it is illegal to take them out of National Park lands and most other Department of Interior properties without permission. However, I dropped my business card off with the Science and Resource Management Department who would get the call should anyone find a bee hive in a structure or tree that needed removal within the park. I don't expect to get any calls, but look forward to the chance.

Waya


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## sierrabees (Jul 7, 2006)

I asked the local district ranger for Tahoe National forest about trapping swarms. She had me put the resquest in writing, discussed at the next meeting, then sent me a letter giving me Carte Blanc for traps in here district. If you don't ask, you could have a problem, but I doubt that you would be turned down, and once you have permission it is best to stencil your name and phone number on each trap so they know it is legit. Some of the forest service people I have talked to say that if they see stuff like that that is clearly marked they don't even check. They assume that no one will advertise how they can be reached unless they have permission.


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## Kevin M (Aug 11, 2006)

Thanks Waya and Doug...My area has mostly state and county parks, as public lands..They can be pretty strict, so i guess its wisest to ask first.


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## Black Creek (May 19, 2006)

uh oh.... i hadnt even thought about the legality of it. it's national forest land... not sure who i should call.... game warden? dept of game and inland fisheries?


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## David Stewart (Jan 22, 2005)

Hey Waya,
Fellow Ranger here. Lead Park Ranger, U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. As to asking permission- This is one of those instances where it definately pays to ask for permission rather than forgiveness... Simple requests such as placement of swarm traps are easily handled at the lower levels, removal of a colony from a tree requires MUCH more discussion/input. Call/drop in at the Forest Service Headquarters office and discuss with them.

David


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## Black Creek (May 19, 2006)

ok, contacted the local branch of the forest service for that district. girl didnt really seem to know (or want to find out) and told me to contact the Dept. of game and inland fisheries. contacted them, they told me to contact the dept. of agriculture. contacted them, they (an apiarist thank god)said there is no state regualtion against it but that "forest lands are managed for the preservation of natural habitats and wildlife" and that i'd need permission, told me to contact the forest service headquarters. contacted them, they said contact the local branch forest service for that district !!! round and round i go. i told them of the chain of phone calls/emails i had made and was put on hold for someone. then that person said he'd call me back with an answer within the day. we'll see how that goes. that was a couple days ago already. he also mentioned he needed to speak with some State Police??? what in the world do they have to do with it?


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## wade (Apr 1, 2006)

Just stick a discrete, camoed box around there somewhere, with your name and phone number on it like somebody said. If you're worried about trouble then document all the channels you went through, including names,times, and dates, especially the last one you talked to and if you don't have that then call back and find out. This is BS and not surprising. Probably the state police would be the only ones that'd legitamately give you a ticket, is why they were mentioned. If you don't feel comfortable with going through with it without written permission and can't get it then forget it.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

I have done a couple feral bee studies. Both having a permit to collect and one having permission to study and monitor. One was much harder to acquire. Anytime collection of Flora and/or fauna is sought, a whole new area of permission must be sought.

Several things were required. One was that anything collected could not be used for personal gain. They were very keen on this. In Pennsylvania, the DCNR (Dept. of Conservation and Natural Resources) approves little in the way of private ventures for study and collection. Most must be underwritten by a university study program and must have two co-signer to validate the source of the study and collection. And they are not talking about your momma! It helped working for the state agriculture department in getting approval.

I have had permits for state parks, and state forrests. I have not dealt with federal lands. But was told the process and approval was on the same level.

The permit process, justification, schedule of collection/study dates and times, coordination with park personnel, and final report preparation and other paperwork, makes it something to think about if its worth it.

As I said previously. Study and monotoring is one thing. Collection of the natural resources is another. Doing it outside the realm of science and education is another level. Collection of anything for personal use and gain would never be approved. May be different elsewhere, and maybe there is a soft director of parks somewhere. But thats the story in Pennsylvania from my experience.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

One thing I forgot to mention. "Collection" was the placement of swarm traps. Cutting a tree or disturbing a natural colony of bees was forbidden. I even was made to detail how I would hang the traps without damaging the tree(s) in the process.


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## David Stewart (Jan 22, 2005)

Psst.... Offer to conduct an AHB monitoring program for the protection of the visiting public...... Paint the boxes bright colors with instructions clearly posted to phone you to report any honey bee sightings...Let the public monitor your swarm traps for you and save you the leg work. Send in an appropriate sized sample from each swarm collected and furnish the Forest Service a copy of the results.

P.S. ALWAYS try to talk to the people at the lowest level to obtain local permissions. UNAUTHORIZED placement of any structure on Federal Lands is prohibited (makes no difference if it's a bird house or a people house).....Disclaimer: This is also where I normally state that I don't write the laws but I have sworn to uphold them....
Good Luck,
David


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

It strikes me as funny that the government would require permits for the collection of one feral animal (Honey Bees) on public land, but have no laws or limitations for another (wild boar)I think that all ferals should be held equal.

[ December 10, 2006, 10:31 AM: Message edited by: bluegrass ]


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

No laws at all concerning hunting and taking wild boars. No license, no guidelines, no age limits, no boundaries, etc. Yes, I do think thats funny also.

I know here, if there were not some guidelines, all pine trees would be harvested for Christmas trees, landcsape companies would rape the lands of rocks and other profitable items to resell, and the list could go on and on.

The state lands in Pa., are protected with the attitude that the plant and wild life are there for everyones enjoyment. And to be protected for future generations. Disturbing the natural habitat or damaging the trees and growth are forbidden. Taking anything is considered against the law. Thats not to say that hunting and collection of bees as example can not be done. But licenses to hunt and permission to collect bees and other wildlife are monitored, granted permission, and limited to more than a few beekeepers wanting to get free bees.

I have no problem with that.


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## sierrabees (Jul 7, 2006)

In dealing with US Forest Service I have discovered that each local ranger district is pretty autonomous. The district ranger has incredible leeway in interpreting regulations etc.
If you get nowhere in one ranger district, try a different one.


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## Black Creek (May 19, 2006)

well... a week has passed and i've gotten no reply. i'll keep digging around for info and post it if i'm ever able to get anything solid to go on. i have a few months to figure it out. worst case scenario, i'll just put traps out on my father's land that borders that area. won't exactly be close to where i actually saw the bees tho. but i might accidently wander over a bit closer. purely by accident of course.


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## Ron Young (Aug 16, 2006)

Not a backwoods question, but here it is anyway. I know of one colony in an old house, not really a situation for a removal. The colony has been there for years. I am sure at this point, the generation living is of natural cell size. Can I put out a nuc or full sized box in the area with small cell and lemon grass oil for lure and expect to capture a swarm? How close should I place the hive? And will neighboring swarms likely swarm to that location based on the smell of the existing colony, and the lure?


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## Black Creek (May 19, 2006)

OK, time to liven up the thread !

i coincidentally got replies from 2 places with in 24hrs. one was an email i got from the local branch forest service. the gal said i had totally stumped her and sorry for the wait. she said that the most she could find out was that placing bee colony box in the national forest would be considered an 'improvement'(structure) and so i need a permit and gave me the 'special use permit' guy's phone #. 

then today i get a phone call from the guy at the forest service headquarters(here's the good news) he said for personal use, i dont need a permit. for commercial gain, then i need a special use permit and gave me the same name of the special use permit guy. 

so, looks like it's a green light for me(in the george washington national forest). i called the special use permit guy anyway, he's outta town until next week. i just want to let him know what i'm up to(and double verify it). just in case he tells me something like i have to put my contact info on the traps or something. 

for the traps, i'm going with the wax cardboard nuc boxes from mann lake. frames with starter strips in them, and a cotton ball soaked in lemongrass oil for bait. i'll either strap them right to my back, or make a screen top for them and put them in a back pack. 

How much lemongrass oil is too much? can i totally soak a cotton ball and maybe put it in an open film canister inside?


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## Black Creek (May 19, 2006)

also, if anyone lives in the area of the George Washington National Forest in Virginia and wants to try this too, PM me and i'll give you all the contact names i have soo you can get in touch with them too.


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## longarm (Apr 21, 2006)

bluegrass,
the difference between feral honeybees and feral swine could not be more pronounced. feral swine caused (in 2003) an estimated $800 million in damage to agricultural crops in the US, are known vectors of diseases that spread to wildlife, domesticated animals, even humans, etc.
here is a good read about them:
http://www.oregon.gov/OISC/docs/pdf/swine_ra.pdf


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## sierrabees (Jul 7, 2006)

<i'll just put traps out on my father's land that borders that area. won't exactly be close to where i actually saw the bees tho. but i might accidently wander over a bit closer. purely by accident of course.>

Keep in mind that when bees swarm their instinct is to find a new location with minimum competition from the parent hive. As a result they travel anywhere from 1/4 mile to over a mile. Some people say up to six miles but I prefer to use 1 mile if I know of a bee tree. They send out multiple scouts in different directions and develope a consensus regarding the best available location. What they appear to be looking for is, available water relatively close at hand, available space in the new nesting site, evidence that it has been used before ie. swarm lures help, good exposure to the morning sun, in your area afternoon shade is probably not a factor, and safety from preditors-they prefer about ten feet from the ground. Next comes beekeeper preferances. I prefer not to have to walk more than 100 feet in rough terrain with a swarm box packed with a lot of bees so I look for sites I can drive close to. Because bears are a problem in the National Forrest I try to find to trees where I can suspend the trap on a light rope at the desired hight away from any limbs the bears could drop or reach it from. I like to get GPS positioning on each swarm and just send a note to the Forest service person in charge telling him/her that I have placed a swarm trap/traps at that location and requesting that he/she notify me if there is a problem with the placement. I'm sure the notes end up in the waste basket but it's worth the postage if someone complains and the boss can remember that they have been notified.

At any rate, private land within a mile of the bee tree often is the best location. Remember, just because your know where one bee tree is doesn't mean there aren't three or four or more within a 1 1/2 mile radius.

In your location, look for areas with recent forrest fires where fireweed has come in strong.


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## Black Creek (May 19, 2006)

this spot i'm zoning in on is several miles from any public land. the GPS is a good idea. over the course of a couple weekends i could do quite a bit of wandering around looking for quality trap spots. i think the bees i found are isolated enough that if they arent true ferals, then they have prolly been isolated for at least a couple years. just guessing based on what i've read, it would take at least 2 swarming migrations to get in that far, maybe 3. but then again i havent actually found their colony, just thousands of field bees working a particular spot. so i figure theyre relatively close by. i'm really interested to see how well these bees preform if i let them build their own comb. if i get them, they'll be put solely on thin starter strips. i'm now thinking that bears arent really gonna be a problem, because they wont be hived in the trap long enough to have substantial brood or honey stores to attract any animals. i'll be checking on them every 2-3 weeks.


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## sierrabees (Jul 7, 2006)

In my neck of the woods the bears know every inch of their territory better than most people know their back yard. If they see anything strange they check it out. If it has the slightest smell of something to eat, like beeswax, honey, or brood, and if it has any sound like insects wings, they will go into demolition mode like they do on old termite stumps.

A length of clothsline rope and a throwing weight can save you a lot of frustration.


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## Black Creek (May 19, 2006)

well... that's what i was thinking originally. i do a bit of backpacking and i always put my food in a bear bag that i hoist up in a tree. i just figured that they wouldnt be interested in it until it started to smell like it was worth the time. i'll figure out something based on each trap location. thanks for the reminder.


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## sierrabees (Jul 7, 2006)

Exactly the same principal.


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