# Single-walled tank with heat trace for settling tank



## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

I have used a hot water tank and a recirculating pump with hose circling the tank. Aluminium bubble wrap around the works. That was on a much larger tank. Worked very well.

Jean-Marc


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

jean-marc said:


> I have used a hot water tank and a recirculating pump with hose circling the tank. Aluminium bubble wrap around the works. That was on a much larger tank. Worked very well.
> 
> Jean-Marc


I have seen that done with old milk tanks, but not hose. Roughly how far apart did you space the hose? What did you use for hose/pipe? PEX? rubber?

Thanks


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

I am not sure of the type of hose. I had a plumber install it. It is red. The spacing was 4-5 inches or so between the coils. The tank holds 15 drums of honey and this worked like a charm.

This year I bought a milk tank double walled and was going to use the hoses that are inside that were used to cool the milk. Unfortunately there was a leak somewhere. I had a stainless guy fabricate tubing that is attached about 6 inches off the floor of the tank. It runs back and forth the length of the tank. I think there are 8 lines of 1/2 inch stainless. I use the self contained hot water heater that Cowen manufactures to heat the hot knifes of the uncappers. My tank is 900 U.S. gallons. I was worried that this small heater would be able to do the job. Fortunately it was more than adequate. As a matter of fact if the tank is about half full and the heat is left on for more than 24 hours then the wax starts to melt at the edges. If the tank was single walled I do not think we could get those kinds of temperatures but that double wall gives a certain amount of insulation. With this tank by the next morning pretty much all the wax has risen to the surface. We pump the honey to the final settling tank before we drum it.

Jean-Marc


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

jean-marc said:


> I am not sure of the type of hose. I had a plumber install it. It is red. The spacing was 4-5 inches or so between the coils. The tank holds 15 drums of honey and this worked like a charm.
> 
> This year I bought a milk tank double walled and was going to use the hoses that are inside that were used to cool the milk. Unfortunately there was a leak somewhere. I had a stainless guy fabricate tubing that is attached about 6 inches off the floor of the tank. It runs back and forth the length of the tank. I think there are 8 lines of 1/2 inch stainless. I use the self contained hot water heater that Cowen manufactures to heat the hot knifes of the uncappers. My tank is 900 U.S. gallons. I was worried that this small heater would be able to do the job. Fortunately it was more than adequate. As a matter of fact if the tank is about half full and the heat is left on for more than 24 hours then the wax starts to melt at the edges. If the tank was single walled I do not think we could get those kinds of temperatures but that double wall gives a certain amount of insulation. With this tank by the next morning pretty much all the wax has risen to the surface. We pump the honey to the final settling tank before we drum it.
> 
> Jean-Marc


That's good to know. The red pipe is probably radiant pex like they use for infloor heating. Do you recall how they attached the pipe to the tank? Foil tape? A hot water tank and recirculation pump comes in at significantly less than a heat cable solution.


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## high rate of speed (Jan 4, 2008)

Our milk tank holds 25 barrels. Same story had a leak.used pex pipe to the tank.. Then ran Cooper. A line in then out.hooked to a circulating pump. But the tank is in hotroom. Don't use pump very much.


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

I have also seen a stainless coil at the bottom of the tank... recirculating pump and Bob's your uncle.

Jean-Marc


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Zhiv9 - How fast do you wish to raise the temperature of the contents of the tank? You should be able to calculate what wattage it will take, and add bunch, and figure out the linear feet of heat trace. The heat trace should have a watts/foot rating. Then calculate the cost for electricity, and add a bunch. Do the same with a natural gas water heater and circulating pump. You may be cheaper in the long run with PEX and water heat.

Crazy Roland


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

Roland said:


> Zhiv9 - How fast do you wish to raise the temperature of the contents of the tank? You should be able to calculate what wattage it will take, and add bunch, and figure out the linear feet of heat trace. The heat trace should have a watts/foot rating. Then calculate the cost for electricity, and add a bunch. Do the same with a natural gas water heater and circulating pump. You may be cheaper in the long run with PEX and water heat.
> Crazy Roland


I don't need to raise the temperature that quickly. The honey will be pumped in from a heated clarifier/sump so it will already be around 100F. I mostly want to maintain that overnight before filtering. Right now I am filtering right from the clarifier/sump, when the honey temperature and pump speed are tuned just right it works great, but variation in temperature and moisture content can cause disaster. I am greatly limited by space and have been trying to avoid settling the honey before filtering, but it has become clear that this is the way to go.

I may opt to go with two smaller tanks vs 1 large and this makes the hot water heat more attractive still.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

If it where me, I would price about 50 feet of the heat trace. Add a few dollars for insulation on the sides and bottom, and some cementboard or other sheet material. It would be quick and considered a "proof of concept" expense, and not a capitol investment.

Crazy Roland


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

Roland said:


> If it where me, I would price about 50 feet of the heat trace. Add a few dollars for insulation on the sides and bottom, and some cementboard or other sheet material. It would be quick and considered a "proof of concept" expense, and not a capitol investment.
> 
> Crazy Roland


I actually ran the tank application through Chromalox's software http://www.chromalox.com/en/resources-and-support/software. 

For a 3' diameter tank that is 3' tall, 24 ft of 20W/ft self-regulating heat trace is required. A line controller is required to keep the temperature in the 100-120F range. Cable comes in at ~$500CA. Line controller $490. Plus another $200 or so in terminating accessories. So about $1500 complete for each tank.

A 10gal electric hotwater tank or small tankless unit comes in at ~$300. Recirc pump $100. 100 ft of Pex tubing $25. Plus $200-$300 in fittings. So closer to $1000, but capable of heating more than one tank.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Well that makes the decision easy. 

Good job doing your homework.

Crazy Roland


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

A bad thing happened after extracting the Goldenrod honey. Short story, I had one 2000# piece of honey. I placed about 30 feet of heat tracing under the tank, supported by a scrap piece of paneling and R11 fiberglass. After about 5 days, I could stir the mess and it ran out the pipe.

Conclusion: I had the tape, it saved the day, but if I was to invest, I would go with coils of copper tube and recirculating warm water.

Crazy Roland


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

I built a 4x8 insulated 'chest' of sorts....big enough for several barrels.

I use a oil filled electric heater with an external thermostat (1 degree swing) and a fan inside that is always on.

The air never gets hotter than I want the honey to get. A hot water heater and coils is more elegant, but this can be built and setup in an afternoon.


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## texanbelchers (Aug 4, 2014)

deknow said:


> I built a 4x8 insulated 'chest' of sorts....big enough for several barrels.
> 
> I use a oil filled electric heater with an external thermostat (1 degree swing) and a fan inside that is always on.
> 
> The air never gets hotter than I want the honey to get. A hot water heater and coils is more elegant, but this can be built and setup in an afternoon.


This sounds like a miniature hot room. Do you break it down to move barrels in/out or is it plumbed and pumped?


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