# I used Check mite for SHB...



## David LaFerney

My name is Dave (hello dave!) and it really hurts me to admit this, but I recently used check mite plus. 

In January almost every hive in my yard had a *serious* infestation of small hive beetles, and I was afraid that if I didn't do something soon it would be too late once pollen really started coming in. Plus, I was afraid that if I fed (pollen sub especially) that would aggravate the problem - I felt like my hands were tied.

So I bit the hard chemical bullet and ordered some Check mite plus. I had heard that it would knock out most SHB in as little as 2-3 days, so I reduced most hives down to one box and put in one strip for one week - the directions say 40 days or so. I marked all of the frames so that I would never extract honey from them. A week or so later (after they aired out) I checkerboarded to give them room and stores.

When I did a full inspection yesterday I saw one beetle in the entire yard - and general hive health looks pretty good. 

These are just the facts, I'm not in any way advocating the use of hard chemicals (this was my first time) but in this case I judged that it was do or die - and it worked. So far. This time.


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## Rader Sidetrack

For those of you who wondered whether David had confused varroa mites with SHB,  this is what Brushy Mtn has to say about Check Mite Plus:



> This product is labeled for both Small Hive Beetles and Varroa Mites. Unfortunately many Varroa Mites are resistant to this product so don't waste your money unless you know it will kill your mites. *As with all miteacides always follow label instructions. (NOT AVAILABLE FOR ALASKA OR CALIFORNIA)
> **
> *http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/Check-Mite-Plus-10-Strips/productinfo/481/


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## David LaFerney

Thanks for pointing that out. Also, check mite is the *only* commercial treatment for SHB that I know of. And the active ingredient is Coumaphos - nasty toxic stuff - I used chemical gloves and handled it with needle nosed pliers. But it really did work. 

Also, they might turn into zombies later, but no bee mortality or adverse effects have been *observed* so far. Nonetheless they have been exposed to what is essentially a neurotoxin. Something to be avoided if at all possible.

Hopefully I can get better at management and it will never be required again. Anyway, I'm on the wagon now. One day at a time....


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## beemandan

If you apply Checkmite using the corrugated squares that are often sold for the purpose....there will be less contamination than hanging the strips between frames.
Just for future reference.


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## sergie

Did you use a ground drench as well? Heard its best to do both if going after SHB.


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## gmcharlie

I would add Gaurdstar as a ground drench if your hives are in the same location. you can get it at any good feed store........otherwise as soon as it warms up last years larve are coming out!


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## David LaFerney

beemandan said:


> If you apply Checkmite using the corrugated squares that are often sold for the purpose....there will be less contamination than hanging the strips between frames.
> Just for future reference.


Beemandan

I did know that, but I hung the strips for 2 reasons - I had a really bad SHB infestation, and I really wanted to knock that down 2) My bees and mites haven't been treated with anything harder than organic acids since I started 5 seasons ago, so I speculated that I might actually get a pretty good one time mite kill as well. Since I was going nuclear anyway.


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## David LaFerney

sergie said:


> Did you use a ground drench as well? Heard its best to do both if going after SHB.


I ordered it, but it was back ordered - so not yet. GMcharlie - I didn't know that it was an off the shelf thing. I probably already paid too much, but then again I got free shipping.

I think I have a promising idea for a new kind of hive beetle trap though.


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## johng

You can buy permethrin from most feed stores. It is the same thing as the Gaurd star and much cheaper. 
Here is a link talking about it. http://www.bugspray.com/catalog/products/page2215.html


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## Sharpbees

I just attended a class on SHB in Frankfort KY during the yearly bee school. Here are a few control measures I heard aboutfrom long time beekeepers in the class.

Put dense grade gravel beneath hives, it works like diamaceous earth killing the larva.e. Let it come out about a foot around the hive.

Agricultural lime will do the same.

Put 4-6 drops of wintergreen oil on a piece of cardboard or pollen patty. DON'T OVERDO IT!! The beetles will run from the hive but if you overdo it the bees will go with them.
I plan to try the wintergreen oil this year.


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## Oldtimer

What will be interesting David, is to see if you are able to continue treatment free, in regards to mites, now there is comb contamination in the brood area. Might take a year or two, or three, to find out but I would certainly be interested please update in due course.


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## vdotmatrix

I know this is an old post . I had to comment about treating your hives. Commercial bee keepers have far less bee loss that the non-treating hobbyist. If you get sick do you try homeopathic remedies or do you go to a doctor for medicine?


David LaFerney said:


> My name is Dave (hello dave!) and it really hurts me to admit this, but I recently used check mite plus.
> 
> In January almost every hive in my yard had a *serious* infestation of small hive beetles, and I was afraid that if I didn't do something soon it would be too late once pollen really started coming in. Plus, I was afraid that if I fed (pollen sub especially) that would aggravate the problem - I felt like my hands were tied.
> 
> So I bit the hard chemical bullet and ordered some Check mite plus. I had heard that it would knock out most SHB in as little as 2-3 days, so I reduced most hives down to one box and put in one strip for one week - the directions say 40 days or so. I marked all of the frames so that I would never extract honey from them. A week or so later (after they aired out) I checkerboarded to give them room and stores.
> 
> When I did a full inspection yesterday I saw one beetle in the entire yard - and general hive health looks pretty good.
> 
> These are just the facts, I'm not in any way advocating the use of hard chemicals (this was my first time) but in this case I judged that it was do or die - and it worked. So far. This time.


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## aunt betty

No need to be ashamed. Sounds like you diagnosed and solved a very serious problem in your apiary. Thanks for sharing and please continue.


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## waynesgarden

BeeBad said:


> ....... If you get sick do you try homeopathic remedies or do you go to a doctor for medicine?


Well, for the past 31 years I've tried homeopathic remedies when sick. Since then, I haven't had a need to get medicine from a doctor.

Why do you ask?

Wayne


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## vdotmatrix

No I think my point was TREAT your hives when you have a significant threat to the hive and **** the organic sticks and twigs methods. Commercial operations are a bread and butter outfit so they have to do whatever they must to ensure a cash crop without of course endangering the public. I have been using the beetle barns from georgia bees with very good success but I will switch to checkmite for the SHB which are quite alarming to see scurrying about my hives...or at least they did until I started fighting them. All I am saying is I have seen people's hard hard work crash and burn endlessly dusting with powered sugar or even worse fogging with mineral oil to treat VD onl because they won't go with best bee practices.....

Winter is Coming


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## biggraham610

Winter is coming Bad. How are your Virginia Hives looking? Are those VSHxVirginia queens you are running? Don't be afraid of the Ghost. Monitor and act accordingly should you wish to treat. You would be amazed at the difference in Varroa tolerance when you start with something with the genes to battle it joined with your local ferrals. You really should try and enter conversations less combative. Good Luck to you. G


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## Oldtimer

Kind of agree with your sentiments Beebad and I do use chemicals in my hives, but coumaphos IS one of the nasty ones I would do anything rather than use that one. 

No problem with David he did what it took to save his bees. But the problem with coumaphos is longer term, down the track it can affect the fertility of any new queens the bees may raise, and the fertility of drones.

There is talk of making coumaphos a legal bee remedy in my own country, I am completely opposed.


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## biggraham610

G G


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## biggraham610

I would like to see numbers to back up the inferences of Beebad. I have nothing against anyone treating, but when someone comes along in their second year spitting vitriol I think its time for a checkup. 

Did you try and go maintenance free with a couple of packages from Georgia Beebad? Anybody that did an ounce of research would have known better than to try that. G


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## David LaFerney

Oldtimer said:


> Kind of agree with your sentiments Beebad and I do use chemicals in my hives, but coumaphos IS one of the nasty ones I would do anything rather than use that one.
> 
> No problem with David he did what it took to save his bees. But the problem with coumaphos is longer term, down the track it can affect the fertility of any new queens the bees may raise, and the fertility of drones.
> 
> There is talk of making coumaphos a legal bee remedy in my own country, I am completely opposed.


In retrospect I may have over reacted at the time, although the infestation level was pretty severe for the time of year - everyone complained about it that year. 

And even if I didn't over react the reason that the hive beetles were so strong in my yard to begin with was mostly that I didn't take proper care of my bees in July and August. My sorry excuse is that I had a construction project with a rushed schedule going at the time. Nonetheless nutrition and mite treatments were neglected during the stressful (because of heat, dearth, and robbing that year) late summer pre-buildup period. So, bad beekeeping all around. 

Nonetheless I probably would not use the checkmite now - instead I would do everything possible to keep the bees healthy, well fed and relatively mite free.


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## Oldtimer

Well we sometimes face choices where there are no excellent options. In this case you have chosen to use checkmite, rather than lose all your bees and have slimed, disgusting equipment.

Whatever problems may have led to this point you have ended up with hives full of living, productive bees, albeit with a coumaphos residue. But you probably feel better than if you had let everything get turned to slime, hard choice, but you probably made the best one.


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## Michael Palmer

:iagree:


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## snl

One's gotta do what one's gotta do............ I hate em....


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## vdotmatrix

My hives are all strong just a few unsettling SHB scurrying about this year is all.


biggraham610 said:


> Winter is coming Bad. How are your Virginia Hives looking? Are those VSHxVirginia queens you are running? Don't be afraid of the Ghost. Monitor and act accordingly should you wish to My hivesSPD7915treat. You would be amazed at the difference in Varroa tolerance when you start with something with the genes to battle it joined with your local ferrals. You really should try and enter conversations less combative. Good Luck to you. G


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## vdotmatrix

you are joking of course unless you have misunderstood or taken what I wrote all wrong-no matter-you have already crossed that line. Bee keeping maintainence free is pure folly-there's none of that in my bee yard. The check mite introduced for shb should be isolated in SHB traps. Coum is some nasty stuff as are some.........s. Cheers


biggraham610 said:


> I would like to see numbers to back up the inferences of Beebad. I have nothing against anyone treating, but when someone comes along in their second year spitting vitriol I think its time for a checkup.
> 
> Did you try and go maintenance free with a couple of packages from Georgia Beebad? Anybody that did an ounce of research would have known better than to try that. G


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## vdotmatrix

wait a minute...you have only been at this for your third year yourself. I am not gettin into this kind of back and forth here with you mister.....


biggraham610 said:


> I would like to see numbers to back up the inferences of Beebad. I have nothing against anyone treating, *but when someone comes along in their second year spitting* vitriol I think its time for a checkup.
> 
> Did you try and go maintenance free with a couple of packages from Georgia Beebad? Anybody that did an ounce of research would have known better than to try that. G


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## biggraham610

You are exactly right. That's why I come here to listen and learn. Not try to spit out facts demeaning others efforts. You should try it some time.


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## deknow

BeeBad said:


> you are joking of course unless you have misunderstood or taken what I wrote all wrong-no matter-you have already crossed that line. Bee keeping maintainence free is pure folly-there's none of that in my bee yard. The check mite introduced for shb should be isolated in SHB traps. Coum is some nasty stuff as are some.........s. Cheers


I've never used checkmite (and never would...beeks would freak out if coumaphos were made accessible to their bees when used by farmers.

With that said, my understanding of the checkmite+ formulation is that it is in strip form, to be used as strips hung between frames.

You describe only using them in traps where bees have no access? Is that a common use? Is it specified on the label? Are you using them with supers on? How soon after treatment has ended do you harvest?


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## Oldtimer

deknow said:


> Is that a common use?


The way I've heard it talked about the bee formulation is not used in beetle traps, they just put a pad in a trap with some of the farm insecticide on, which is way cheaper.

And yes I know that's illegal, just saying what might be a way it's used.


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## deknow

If it isn't the bee formulation, it isn't checkmite+.

The label for checkmite specifies:


> Do not leave the strips in hive for more than 45 days. Do not treat more than four times per year for the small hive beetle. Do not replace honey supers any sooner than 14 days after the strips are removed.


I dont intend to accuse anyone of anything....but when I read the recent posts in this thread, I get the feeling that traps are used in ways that clearly violate the label in more ways than one.

Coumaphos is nasty stuff, and should not be being used in self regulated home brew applications.


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## beemandan

Oldtimer....I believe I saw a fipronil baited shb trap that was approved for use in Australia. I know...you're in New Zealand but still a lot closer than those of us in the states. Have you heard anything about it?
PS...I think it is approved for use with honey supers ON.


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## dsegrest

Coumaphos builds up in the wax.


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## beemandan

Here it is:
Apithor Hive Beetle Harbourage 
https://www.apithor.com.au/how_to_use_apithor.html
“The benefit of the trap is that it is inexpensive, easy to install, is lethal to the SHB and is safe for beekeepers and bees. Extensive testing also shows that the honey is unaffected.”


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## deknow

> "Extensive testing also shows that the honey is unaffected.”


edit:I mistakenly thought this was referring to counaphos....it is not, it is referring to fiprinol.

Errr....


> Coumaphos builds up in the wax


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## Oldtimer

Thanks for the info Beemandan. First I've heard of it though.

Deknow the product you reference in post #34 is not coumaphos. All the same I wouldn't want fiprinol in my hives either, I thought there would have been a safer alternative. 

Fiprinol is an ideal poison for community living insects such as bees ants and wasps as it is non repellent and slow to kill, so it is easily passed around between the community. When varroa first arrived in my country and an initial response was being worked out, one proposal was to kill all bees in the affected area, and kill the ferals via poison bait. The poison of choice was fiprinol. The plan was never enacted because it was soon discovered varroa was way more widely spread than realised and beyond the point that extermination could be possible.

Fiprinol also has a very long 1/2 life, so I'm surprised the trap manufacturers chose this particular poison, maybe it's also very effective on beetles.


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## deknow

Thx oldtimer...my mistake. ..edited post accordingly.

...if fiprinol is lipophylic, I would have similar concerns....I don't know if it is or not.


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## Robbin

David,
I'm a firm believer in the freeman beetle traps. I've been adding them as I go this year. Think I have two hives that don't have them yet and that's because they started making them for nucs so I'm adding them to my mating nucs.
I lose 4 to 5 times as many nucs as I do hives. Big strong hives can handle SHB, NUCS can be overwhelmed before they can build up. I like them because they kill SHB all the time. Thus lowering the number of SHB that can attack my hives. If your hive swarms, and fails to requeen, it's ripe for being over run with SHB. Anyway, my 2 cents worth, I have had a terriable summer with SHB and the oil tray traps have stopped it.
Very satisfying to pull the tray out and see several hundred SHB dead in the oil. And it's not a chemical treatment, you can't build up a resistance to drowning, and your bees are not effected by it.
Good luck,


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## snl

deknow said:


> With that said, my understanding of the checkmite+ formulation is that it is in strip form, to be used as strips hung between frames.


For SHB, the strips are cut in half and applied to corrugated cardboard?? and placed on the bottom of the hive where only the SHB have access to them.


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## beemandan

snl said:


> For SHB, the strips are cut in half and applied to corrugated cardboard?? and placed on the bottom of the hive where only the SHB have access to them.


I've also seen them cut and placed into 'beetle barns'. The same situation. The beetles can get to them and the bees can't. Still....it's coumaphos. 
I agree...fipronil isn't a 'soft' insecticide either. I've seen it used in various traps in heavy infestations though....and it kills 'em (shb)...and it'd surely kill the bees if they had access to it.


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## Sticky stele

I have found that yards in the shade and damp areas often have a more serious SHB infestation and that simply moving the yard to the sun helps.


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## deknow

snl said:


> For SHB, the strips are cut in half and applied to corrugated cardboard?? and placed on the bottom of the hive where only the SHB have access to them.


Yes, you are correct, my mistake. For varroa, the same strips are hung in the broodnest.


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## David LaFerney

Sticky stele said:


> I have found that yards in the shade and damp areas often have a more serious SHB infestation and that simply moving the yard to the sun helps.


Full sun helps for sure - if you have that option. But you can successfully keep bees in a shady bee yard too - I have one of each now.


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## deknow

Sticky stele said:


> I have found that yards in the shade and damp areas often have a more serious SHB infestation and that simply moving the yard to the sun helps.


...when you get the sun to move to the yard, you will have mastered beekeeping.


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## Congachile

Robbin, I've tried using the Freeman Traps on my hives but found many bees end up drowning in them. Not just a few, but concerning numbers, so I had to stop. Have you had this problem and if so, how do you deal with it?


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## Congachile

Robbin said:


> David,
> I'm a firm believer in the freeman beetle traps. I've been adding them as I go this year. Think I have two hives that don't have them yet and that's because they started making them for nucs so I'm adding them to my mating nucs.
> 
> Robbin, I've tried using the Freeman Traps on my hives but found many bees end up drowning in them. Not just a few, but concerning numbers, so I had to stop. Have you had this problem and if so, how do you deal with it?


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## Robbin

Congachile said:


> Robbin, I've tried using the Freeman Traps on my hives but found many bees end up drowning in them. Not just a few, but concerning numbers, so I had to stop. Have you had this problem and if so, how do you deal with it?


I've got several that don't fit just right and I get some bees in them. Heartbreaking to me! but I can't live without them. I've done two things, both work, one is a board cut to fit and raise the very back of the tray forcing a good tight fit. I assume you could do the same but adding something like a drop of glue to the back and letting it dry, to get a tight fit pushing the rear of the tray up a little. But the simple solution is a piece of duct tape.
I don't know why, gut the trays seem to slide out just a little on their own. Don't know what the force is that is doing it. But a piece of tape and it stops. Now that I've thought about this while typing, I'm going to try a piece of tape under the rear of the tray to make it thicker and a little taller. Bet that will work perfect and the friction caused by the tape will hold it in place.


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