# Flash heating honey question



## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Will honey become completely uncrystalized if it is flash heated to 120F?


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

i would speculate "No", especially if there are large crystals.

Crazy Roland


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Seems like it has nothing to do w/ how fast honey is heated, but whether it is heated to a high enough temperature to liquify crystals.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

well it should shouldn't it? If the honey is 120F then all crystals will be liquid again


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

My understanding is that it takes higher temps to insure the liquification of all crystals. If one wants to destroy all crystals in preparation for making creamed honey I believe the temperature is 150 degrees. Doing so w/ honey not destined for creamed honey will prolong shelf time before crystalization shows itself.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Interesting. Well I ask because I am red necking a heat exchanger for honey. I don't care for the prices I see in the commercial world of honey extraction/bottling so it's time to get rednecking in the back yard a bit.

I have considered just simply circulating the honey back into the drum in the hotbox for a means of quickly raising temp of honey. Either way if I flash heat the honey to 120 degrees it should really speed up the uncrystalization of the honey in the drums. Maybe I will post my results here for everyone.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

are you sure you will be getting your honey temp up to 120F? My heat exchanger water jacket is set at 125F and it brings the honey temp up to 95-100F as it passes through.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Ian I will already have the honey at aroudn 90 - 100 degrees F. Also the pump that will be moving the honey thru the unit is about 1.5 GPM pump and the heat exchanger will have more volume than the input/output piping. I am not sure it will immediately bring the honey to 120F with 1 pass thru but that is the goal. I am going to mount a thermometer on both sides of the heat exchanger to see just what them it will bring the honey with a single pass thru the heat exchanger. I am hoping a single pass can raise the temp by 20F. I also thought that if I bring the honey to around 100 where all honey is loose in drum then I can circulate the honey for and hour or two to bring to 120 and let rest another day in hotbox. 

My goal is to speed up the uncrystalization process to speed up bottling process.


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## gjt (Jul 24, 2014)

I would take a look at instant water heater designs. They not just heat the water very fast, but also reach a precise temperature. Just a thought.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Initial thoughts:

Direct heat can mean scorched honey.
How will unit handle viscous material like honey?
Will the inside of the unit stand up to the acidity of honey?



http://www.atanklesslife.com/rheem-...water-heater?gclid=CO-Gv8X-sMACFVQV7Aodmw0A_A

Here is an inexpensive one and it looks like it uses up to 60 amps. HOLY COW! thats some juice!


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## Heintz88 (Feb 26, 2012)

125 degrees taking about 3 days for a crystallized barrel to liquify.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

You are not proceeding as I would. I would lower your holding temp to 110 F, and raise your flash tamp to 140+. It is the area under the curve that also damages honey.

Crazy Roland


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Roland would you please elaborate a little bit on the last part of your post?


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

The area under the curve speaks of the sum of time and temperature. If you graph, over time, the temperature of a lb of honey as it passes through your system, the area under the curve graphed will be roughly proportional to the damage to the honey. Five minutes at 140+ is less harmful than 3 days at 125 F, because the area under the curve is less.

Clear?

Crazy Roland


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Very clear. It's a very good point that we are all probably aware of, however don't think alot about because of the lower temps.

Will 5 minutes at 140F completely uncrystalize all the honey?


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

I believe it will for most honeys with small crystals. You will have to test and find out what works best on your honey.

Crazy Roland


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

I sort of figured as much. Looking to get a 30K BTU propane furnace for the hotbox now.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Because of honeys viscosity and the boundary layer effect you can very easily get scorching at the surface. Steam cavitation will create vapor bubbles and the heat exchange surface temperature momentarily rises there and scorch the honey when the bubbles collapse. To get flash heating you should preferably pump it to sweep away surface boundary layer and prevent cavitation. As Rolande says the area under the curve is what counts. Steepen the curve by decreasing temperature of heat exchange surface and increase the velocity of both the product and the heat exchange medium on the other side of the exchange surface.


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## Makin' Honey (Sep 13, 2010)

Well here’s my two cents. I have been bottling honey on a small scale for about 30 years. For the 30 years I have heated the honey in 55g drums to around 150 degrees and the honey is almost always crystalized. I set the drum in a water bath tank with a 2400 watt water heater element. The drum of honey goes in at room temp, the water is cold and I plug it up. In the winter when the honey around 40 degrees it takes around 6-7 hours to get the honey to the 150. In the summer when the honey is around 90 degrees it takes around 5 hours to get the honey to 150. I do stir it once or twice to speed up melting the crystals. I have only scorched two drums of honey when I got busy, forgot and left it in the hot water for 10 hours or so. 

I totally agree with Roland "Five minutes at 140+ is less harmful than 3 days at 125 F".
Victor H


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Crofter wrote:

Steepen the curve by decreasing temperature of heat exchange surface and increase the velocity of both the product and the heat exchange medium on the other side of the exchange surface.

Copy that!


Crazy Roland the sometimes trucker


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