# Georgia Law Requires Treatment?



## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

*Re: Small Cell Claims Debunked*



stan.vick said:


> Fatbeeman sells bees from the state of Georgia and is required by law to treat regardless of his mite count.


What?! Where did this come from?


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

*Re: Small Cell Claims Debunked*

Oh thanks for that Stan I was not aware of the legal requirements. Is the treatment method specified in law?

Since mites are pretty much endemic now would not such a law be past it's use by date now?


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## stan.vick (Dec 19, 2010)

*Re: Small Cell Claims Debunked*



beemandan said:


> What?! Where did this come from?


 Before I started selling bees I contacted the Georgia Department Of Agriculture supervisor David Williams, I asked for information on Ga. law and departmental regulations relating to the sale of bees. Apiary inspector Donald Dickson contacted me and said that it was required by Ga. law that I treat the hives by their approved chemicals, before sale. I asked if apivar was one of the approved chemicals, he said it was, I was instructed to treat and call him for an inspection afterwards. I did not research the law itself. I was "called" on this by another Georgia beek, I asked him to research this and get back to me if the information I got from Mr. Dickson was wrong, I have not heard back from that beek. I would love to not have to treat because I have an apiary that I don't treat eight miles from my treated one that is doing fine, I don't sell bees from that one.


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## Leather Jim (Jun 30, 2013)

*Re: Small Cell Claims Debunked*



stan.vick said:


> Before I started selling bees I contacted the Georgia Department Of Agriculture supervisor David Williams, I asked for information on Ga. law and departmental regulations relating to the sale of bees. Apiary inspector Donald Dickson contacted me and said that it was required by Ga. law that I treat the hives by their approved chemicals, before sale. I asked if apivar was one of the approved chemicals, he said it was, I was instructed to treat and call him for an inspection afterwards. I did not research the law itself. I was "called" on this by another Georgia beek, I asked him to research this and get back to me if the information I got from Mr. Dickson was wrong, I have not heard back from that beek. I would love to not have to treat because I have an apiary that I don't treat eight miles from my treated one that is doing fine, I don't sell bees from that one.


Is anyone aware of any other states with such requirements?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

*Re: Small Cell Claims Debunked*

Something doesn't seem right here. A State Law requiring treatment? I'd like to see the Law. Show me the law.


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## stan.vick (Dec 19, 2010)

*Re: Small Cell Claims Debunked*



sqkcrk said:


> Something doesn't seem right here. A State Law requiring treatment? I'd like to see the Law. Show me the law.


 Mark, I don't have an axe to grind or point to prove, I simply stated what information I got and from whom I got it, and invited anyone to prove that the information is wrong ( which would be to my benefit. ) Now I could have went on a mission to prove the bee inspector wrong and argued with him, but since he is the one that was to approve my license, I think that would be rather stupid.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

*Re: Small Cell Claims Debunked*



stan.vick said:


> Now I could have went on a mission to prove the bee inspector wrong and argued with him, but since he is the one that was to approve my license, I think that would be rather stupid.


I've had the same experience with my new honey house inspector. After 6 years of inspections by two other inspectors suddenly the new guy insists that I must have another sink. I could have created a stir....or spent fifty bucks putting in another sink. You have to pick your battles.
Having said that...I took a look and saw that you are required to have a license to sell bees in GA but cannot find nor have I ever heard of any treatment requirements. Inspections on my hives have always focused on AFB....none ever found. They have never even mentioned varroa....of course that would seem foolish as those critters are in every hive.
Sheesh! It's eleven AM, sunny and over 60 and I'm sitting at my computer?! Got to go.....there's real work to be done!


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## rhaldridge (Dec 17, 2012)

*Re: Small Cell Claims Debunked*



stan.vick said:


> Before I started selling bees I contacted the Georgia Department Of Agriculture supervisor David Williams, I asked for information on Ga. law and departmental regulations relating to the sale of bees. Apiary inspector Donald Dickson contacted me and said that it was required by Ga. law that I treat the hives by their approved chemicals, before sale.


Just as a data point, I bought a package of untreated bees from Wolf Creek last year. The package was packed in Georgia and had a Georgia inspection sticker.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

*Re: Small Cell Claims Debunked*



rhaldridge said:


> The package was packed in Georgia and had a Georgia inspection sticker.


That's curious. What was the explanation?


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## rhaldridge (Dec 17, 2012)

*Re: Small Cell Claims Debunked*



AstroBee said:


> That's curious. What was the explanation?


I did not ask for one. I assumed that Wolf Creek makes their packages in GA. Their place in TN isn't far from the state line.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

*Re: Small Cell Claims Debunked*



rhaldridge said:


> Just as a data point, I bought a package of untreated bees from Wolf Creek last year. The package was packed in Georgia and had a Georgia inspection sticker.


Ray...I'm interested in this too. The Georgia inspection sticker should have the supplier's name on it. Any chance you still have it?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

*Re: Small Cell Claims Debunked*



stan.vick said:


> Mark, I don't have an axe to grind or point to prove, I simply stated what information I got and from whom I got it, and invited anyone to prove that the information is wrong ( which would be to my benefit. ) Now I could have went on a mission to prove the bee inspector wrong and argued with him, but since he is the one that was to approve my license, I think that would be rather stupid.


I didn't mean to imply that you yourself was being misleading, I just wondered if someone could come up w/ the GA Bee Laws?

What proof of use do you have to show?


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## Chemguy (Nov 26, 2012)

*Re: Small Cell Claims Debunked*



sqkcrk said:


> Something doesn't seem right here. A State Law requiring treatment? I'd like to see the Law. Show me the law.


I don't think that there is such a law, only the standard code that allows the state to require treatment under certain circumstances. The passage is below.

TITLE 2. AGRICULTURE 
CHAPTER 14. SALE OF AGRICULTURAL AND FOREST PRODUCTS 
ARTICLE 3. HONEYBEES 


O.C.G.A. § 2-14-44 (2013)

§ 2-14-44. Disposition of infected bees or fixtures 


The Commissioner, through his agents or employees, may require the removal from this state of any honeybees or beekeeping fixtures which have been brought into the state in violation of this article. If he finds that any bees or fixtures are infected with any contagious or infectious disease or that such bees or fixtures have been exposed to danger of infection by such diseases, that any honeybees have become Africanized, or that honeybees are confronted with any other threat in this state, the Commissioner may require the destruction, treatment, or disinfection of any such infected or exposed bees, hives, fixtures, or appliances.


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## stan.vick (Dec 19, 2010)

*Re: Small Cell Claims Debunked*



sqkcrk said:


> I didn't mean to imply that you yourself was being misleading, I just wondered if someone could come up w/ the GA Bee Laws?
> 
> What proof of use do you have to show?


Mark, I got off my butt and did the research. You are right there is no Ga. law requiring treatment that I can find. I did find this in the mission statement page of Gary Black the Department of Ag. commissioner on the apiary industry section under the mention of the bee law 2-14-40 ( Although not required by Georgia regulations many states will not permit the entry of beehives unless they have been inspected by the plant protection section and found free of pests.) What the plant protection section seems to have done is say we will not issue a state sticker to attach to your bees unless they have been treated. This puts me in an awkward position, I guess I will continue to treat the bees I sell and maintain my treatment free apiary for the time being. Thanks for everyone's input.


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## rhaldridge (Dec 17, 2012)

*Re: Small Cell Claims Debunked*



stan.vick said:


> What the plant protection section seems to have done is say we will not issue a state sticker to attach to your bees unless they have been treated. This puts me in an awkward position, I guess I will continue to treat the bees I sell and maintain my treatment free apiary for the time being.


Do they specify what kind of treatment is required?

I might be tempted to hire a witchdoctor to do a little dance and supplicate the Bee Gods. Or hire a shaman to blow a little sage smoke around the apiary. If anyone complains, protest this abridgment of your religious freedom.


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

*Re: Small Cell Claims Debunked*

Most states flesh out statutes with rules:
http://rules.sos.state.ga.us/pages/...ULTURE/PLANT_PROTECTION/BEEKEEPING/index.html

check out .02


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## stan.vick (Dec 19, 2010)

*Re: Small Cell Claims Debunked*



rhaldridge said:


> Do they specify what kind of treatment is required?
> 
> I might be tempted to hire a witchdoctor to do a little dance and supplicate the Bee Gods. Or hire a shaman to blow a little sage smoke around the apiary. If anyone complains, protest this abridgment of your religious freedom.


The inspector did say there was a list, but I didn't ask details since I wasn't willing to go stronger than apivar, When I talk with him next I will ask, I have made a note to send you a pm when I get the info.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

*Re: Georgia Law requires treatment before selling Packages and Queens*



Saltybee said:


> Most states flesh out statutes with rules:
> http://rules.sos.state.ga.us/pages/...ULTURE/PLANT_PROTECTION/BEEKEEPING/index.html
> 
> check out .02


To facilitate this discussion,  I have copied the critical part of the Georgia rule .02 that _Saltybee _references:


> *40-4-1-.02 Queen and Package Certificates *
> 
> (1) No licensee shall ship any package bees or queens unless they:
> ...
> ...


Note that the treatment must be a _registered _pesticide.



Excellent research work _Saltybee_.:thumbsup::thumbsup: I had earlier found the GA _law_, but the _rules _eluded me.


.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

*Re: Georgia Law requires treatment before selling Packages and Queens*

So, bees sold from Georgia do have to be mite treated with a registered treatment?

Thing is, Fatbeeman uses FGMO, OE's and such, are they registered?


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

*Re: Georgia Law requires treatment before selling Packages and Queens*

Odd to me at least that the rule does not have a "nor more than xx Days" requirement to go with the at least 7 days. It is the hive which they came from that must be treated, not the bees themselves, also odd and probably not what is intended. Certificates are good for a year, so that leaves a very wide window. It may be specified elsewhere, have not hunted around.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

*Re: Georgia Law requires treatment before selling Packages and Queens*

> uses FGMO, OE's and such, are they registered?

AFAIK, the only 'registered' varroa controls in the US are ones with a 'brand name' and a label that specifies use for varroa control. That means that FGMO, oxalic acid, essential oils, sugar dusting, etc are _not _registered. Commercial products like Apivar, MAQS, etc are registered varroa controls.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

*Re: Georgia Law requires treatment before selling Packages and Queens*

It does specify queens and package bees.....a loophole for nucs....which is what fatbeeman sells, I believe?


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

*Re: Georgia Law requires treatment before selling Packages and Queens*

Uh Huh!

Which explains why myself anyway, have seen no mention of him using conventional treatments. I also saw a video of him using teatree oil to combat nosema.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

*Re: Georgia Law requires treatment before selling Packages and Queens*



Saltybee said:


> Odd to me at least that the rule does not have a "nor more than xx Days" requirement to go with the at least 7 days. It is the hive which they came from that must be treated, not the bees themselves, also odd and probably not what is intended. Certificates are good for a year, so that leaves a very wide window. It may be specified elsewhere, have not hunted around.


What kind of inspection is done to what percentage of the hives to determine mite levels and absence of disease?


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## ga.beeman (Mar 29, 2009)

*Re: Georgia Law requires treatment before selling Packages and Queens*

I get mine inspected every year and have never been told I had to do a treatment before they are sold. They are usually only looking for foulbrood or something of that nature not mites.


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## luke0927 (Aug 16, 2011)

*Re: Georgia Law requires treatment before selling Packages and Queens*

I don't see that listed in the actual law....Below is the GA code for honeybees..



> § 2-14-40. License required for sale of bees; fee; revocation of license
> 
> 
> (a) All persons, firms, or corporations desiring to carry on as a business the sale of bees, queens, nuclei, etc., shall apply to the Commissioner of Agriculture as ex officio state entomologist for a license to do so. The application shall be accompanied by a fee of $25.00. All fees so collected shall be turned over to the Office of the State Treasurer.
> ...


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

*Re: Georgia Law requires treatment before selling Packages and Queens*

See also the link in post #17. Rules and case law fill in the statutes.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

*Re: Georgia Law requires treatment before selling Packages and Queens*

_Luke0927_, the '_missing link_' that connects the GA 'rules' in post #17 and the GA code you quoted in post #27 is in section (b) of your GA code quotation:



> Such license shall be revoked by the Commissioner if the licensee fails to comply with this article or to carry out the [HIGHLIGHt]rules and regulations established by the Commissioner[/HIGHLIGHt].


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

*Re: Georgia Law requires treatment before selling Packages and Queens*

Rader to the rescue. Thanks, I talk and write in shorthand.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

*Re: Georgia Law requires treatment before selling Packages and Queens*



ga.beeman said:


> I get mine inspected every year and have never been told I had to do a treatment before they are sold. They are usually only looking for foulbrood or something of that nature not mites.


Do you sell bees, queens, or nucs? If you don't, why would they mention it?


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## luke0927 (Aug 16, 2011)

*Re: Georgia Law requires treatment before selling Packages and Queens*

Thanks Saltybee missed that one.


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

*Re: Georgia Law requires treatment before selling Packages and Queens*



ga.beeman said:


> I get mine inspected every year and have never been told I had to do a treatment before they are sold. They are usually only looking for foulbrood or something of that nature not mites.[/QUOT
> 
> Rule .04 (6) (6) Any Georgia resident beekeeper may, upon request and payment of inspection fee,
> obtain certification from the Georgia Department of Agriculture that his honey bees are
> ...


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

*Re: Georgia Law requires treatment before selling Packages and Queens*

This despite tracheal mites are a virtual non issue, and, everybody already has varroa mites anyhow. But something we should be worried about, AFB, is not mentioned?


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## stan.vick (Dec 19, 2010)

*Re: Georgia Law requires treatment before selling Packages and Queens*



Oldtimer said:


> This despite tracheal mites are a virtual non issue, and, everybody already has varroa mites anyhow. But something we should be worried about, AFB, is not mentioned?


 Drawing from experience enforcing Georgia law, Laws are put on the books slowly and almost never taken off, regulations and departmental rules are more flexible and "can" be taken off easier, but in reality the departments usually don't bother, they will choose to stop enforcing one rule and put emphasis on enforcing another, also this information is scattered and usually not in the same place. When I was last inspected the emphasis was on detecting Africanized bees, AFB, EFB and major Varroa infestation.
I want to thank my fellow beeks in your research efforts and discussions to clarify this Georgia law issue, I had missed a lot in my research. At one point I regretted bringing up the issue but am now thankful I did.


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