# Scared



## mhorowit (Sep 25, 2011)

I've had this hive two months now and it's grown to 14 combs.
On occasion, the hive is more active than at other times.
I went out today and they were flying all over, making more noise than normal. I shuffled several bars around, trying to get slack to be able to move/examine bars closer to the entrance, but there was so much activity, I closed it up. 
Is this something I need to get used to or are there periods when even on a beautiful day I should stay away? - Mike


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## Steven Ogborn (Jun 3, 2011)

Hey Mike. 
Did you smoke them before you opened them up?
If you did, it's probably just something you're gonna have to deal with.
The bees aren't gonna stop what they're doing just cause you come
by for a visit. If they weren't being mean, I wouldn't be to concerned
about it. You might have to remind yourself that highly populus hives 
can be a good thing.


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## 6470zzy (Mar 13, 2012)

Sounds to me like orientation flight activity, completely normal. 

Cheers


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## Dana (Mar 26, 2005)

Were that actively coming at you or just going about their business?


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## mhorowit (Sep 25, 2011)

Steven Ogborn said:


> Hey Mike.
> Did you smoke them before you opened them up?
> If you did, it's probably just something you're gonna have to deal with.
> The bees aren't gonna stop what they're doing just cause you come
> ...


I thought I was smoking them gently, but there was no dramatic calming -mike


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## mhorowit (Sep 25, 2011)

Dana said:


> Were that actively coming at you or just going about their business?


I didn't feel like I was being attacked-mike


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## mhorowit (Sep 25, 2011)

6470zzy said:


> Sounds to me like orientation flight activity, completely normal.
> 
> Cheers


I think I have seen orientation, but then, they were hovering around the entrance. In this case they were all over-mike


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## Dana (Mar 26, 2005)

If they are not coming at your hands and hive tool, then they're okay. It took a bit of getting used to for me when I first started. That being said, even if it's a beautiful day, if there's no nectar flow and your hive is really strong and they have stores to protect then they may be more defensive. If you bang things around, they may get agitated. But, most of the time, if they are just flying, it's okay. If mine are agitated, and I can wait, I just close them up and come back another day. You will get used to all the buzzing after a while.


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## Steven Ogborn (Jun 3, 2011)

If they weren't being mean towards you, I wouldn't worry about it. Think of it as good practice
for when you start brushing bees off honeycombs when you start harvesting.


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

You will soon learn to tell when you should use more smoke, just go and work, or leave and come back. Perfect example today, looking in my brother's hive (very busy, drawing comb at last in the third honey super, very calm), looking in my new swarm without smoke to see if they needed another box (next week, I think) and to trim back some burr comb and an overly fat comb, and then opened up my old swarm. When I cracked the inner cover loose, they set up a roar, and bees started flying out from underneath. Cover went back down and I left. I'll look again tomorrow, with smoke this time.

I got stung pretty good last year when the hive roared when I cracked the cover loose, so I no longer bother to look inside when that happens. For whatever reason, they are riled up and I'd just as soon wait a bit as get stung.

Bees flying around isn't a problem, other than getting used to it. If they fly into your veil or try to sting you through it, it's time to think about getting out of there unless you must finish something (like pinching a mean hive's queen to replace her). you will get used to them flying, it's not a bit deal. They will even crash into you if you get too close to the flight path while watching the hive, and they just recover and head on in or out.

Peter


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## b haley (Mar 1, 2012)

I have a new hive about the same number of days as yours and last week when I went to check them they were everywhere. I had never seen that before. When I pulled up an empty bar to make room to work they started pouring out of that gap. They were not coming after me, but just flying around the hive. I packed everything back up and just watched. It seems as if the ones that came out of that gap were trying to get back in by that gap that was now closed off. After about 5 minutes they calmed down and went back to normal with only a dozen or so bees at any time coming or going.

I was wondering if that was an orientation flight for a new batch of bees.


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## mhorowit (Sep 25, 2011)

b haley said:


> I have a new hive about the same number of days as yours and last week when I went to check them they were everywhere. I had never seen that before. When I pulled up an empty bar to make room to work they started pouring out of that gap. They were not coming after me, but just flying around the hive. I packed everything back up and just watched. It seems as if the ones that came out of that gap were trying to get back in by that gap that was now closed off. After about 5 minutes they calmed down and went back to normal with only a dozen or so bees at any time coming or going.
> 
> I was wondering if that was an orientation flight for a new batch of bees.
> 
> View attachment 1966


That's a good description.
I like what was said about them attacking the hive tool or my hands. I don't think they were attacking hands, but I kept moving them out of their way (behind my back).
I don't think these were orientation flights, those seem to be around the entrance - MIke


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## Bees&Wood (May 18, 2011)

Mike,
Like everyone else said, nothing in your post hints at problems, more like normal behavior. The hive, being 2 months now, is really starting to take off as I'm sure you've noticed. Just a few things.... You will learn to listen to the bees and the pitch of their 'hum' or buzzing. When they start really singing, and the buz gets to be higher pitch (both in the box and the bees flying around), you should start paying attention...at that point they aren't liking something and they're letting you know it. Could be something you did, like pop the lid harshly, jostle a frame, squish a bee or 2...or could be weather related ie storm brewing around. The more you work the bees, especially when they're really active, the more comfortable (hopefully) you will be....and just wait till you have 3-4 or more boxes on the hive and they're at their peak numbers...it can be a pretty aw-inspiring experience to be working with that many bees around. Good luck with your hive and enjoy working with it!!


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## mrobinson (Jan 20, 2012)

The _population_ of a new hive really takes off from the total number of bees that were in that package, as the brood starts coming in and it becomes a _hive._ One reason why you're seeing more activity is that there are _more_ of them! 

As you work, keep the number of open spaces small, i.e. "one." Make an empty slot, pick up a bar from one end of the slot, and, whether or not it is empty, put it back _against_ the other end of the slot and cajole it into place before proceeding. Carefully brush and move the bees out of the space. "Brush, brush, touch." I think it's important to minimize the number of openings.

If bees begin to "boil out" of slots, or if they line up in large numbers to look at you, they are becoming defensive. The mere  fact that there are hundreds or thousands of insects in the air _all_ around you  ... is not necessarily defense. There are thousands of insects in that box, and they've all got wings, and the box is suddenly open at the top. They land on things ... they land on you. They fly away again. Patience, patience.


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## RobWok (May 18, 2011)

mrobinson said:


> The _population_ of a new hive really takes off from the total number of bees that were in that package, as the brood starts coming in and it becomes a _hive._ One reason why you're seeing more activity is that there are _more_ of them!
> 
> As you work, keep the number of open spaces small, i.e. "one." Make an empty slot, pick up a bar from one end of the slot, and, whether or not it is empty, put it back _against_ the other end of the slot and cajole it into place before proceeding. Carefully brush and move the bees out of the space. "Brush, brush, touch." I think it's important to minimize the number of openings.
> 
> If bees begin to "boil out" of slots, or if they line up in large numbers to look at you, they are becoming defensive. The mere  fact that there are hundreds or thousands of insects in the air _all_ around you  ... is not necessarily defense. There are thousands of insects in that box, and they've all got wings, and the box is suddenly open at the top. They land on things ... they land on you. They fly away again. Patience, patience.



I have found that sometimes if a swarm or package loses their queen, they will be both defensive and disoriented. The smoke only works if they have honey stores to gobble up. just my 2 cents.

Rob.


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## Bush_84 (Jan 9, 2011)

Check this out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RW16JOPBhSA&feature=related

The first thing I thought when I saw this topic was orientation flights. I have seen some rather impressive orientation flights, but nothing like the one above. When my hive first started I saw a couple of orientation flights and got paranoid as well.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Bees pinging off your veil are angry. Bees trying to sting you (or leaving stingers in your gloves or on your suit) are angry. Bees that smell of artificial banana are angry. Bees in the air are just bees in the air. They may be confused by the tall white thing next to the hive or the lid being off etc. and they are just circling trying to figure out which is the right hive. Bees are active. It's why we have sayings like "busy as a bee"...


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## mhorowit (Sep 25, 2011)

I did it. took most of my courage and a lot of smoke, but i made it from bar 15 down to 6.
Notice capped brood, I believe uncapped brood, honey.
about four of the combs had grown together; I ran the bread knife between the combs and shifted the bars down, and continued.
that "L" shaped tool is a keeper .Oh, and I noticed dirty (pre-used) cells!

Need a drink and a shower. - Mike


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## Allen (Oct 5, 2011)

Bush_84, my four colonies in all Langs were doing the same thing as in that video this afternoon except it looked worse.
While wearing a full suit I opened all the hives for a peek and they didn't show any aggressive behaviour towards me.
We have had a lot of rain lately so maybe there was a combination of things causing it.
The heat and high humidity, going stir crazy due to all the rain and lots of new bees getting their sea legs.

Once I was done, they quieted down significantly. Almost like flipping a light switch.


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## mrobinson (Jan 20, 2012)

RobWok said:


> I have found that sometimes if a swarm or package loses their queen, they will be both defensive and disoriented. The smoke only works if they have honey stores to gobble up. just my 2 cents.


 Definitely so. The posting that you originally replied-to refers to an apparent reaction of the hive to what _we_ were doing at the time, and that appeared to resolve itself as _we_ subsequently changed _our_ behavior. (Leading to an _"a ha!"_ moment.) 

Certainly, as you say, a hive that is stressed by an abnormal situation (hunger, queenless) will certainly act the part, and this no matter how you behave towards them. It's definitely a warning-bell that you must listen for and listen to.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>took most of my courage and a lot of smoke

A lot of smoke is almost always a bad idea... a little smoke is much more effective.


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## Steven Ogborn (Jun 3, 2011)

mhorowit said:


> I did it. took most of my courage and a lot of smoke, but i made it from bar 15 down to 6.
> Notice capped brood, I believe uncapped brood, honey.
> about four of the combs had grown together; I ran the bread knife between the combs and shifted the bars down, and continued.
> that "L" shaped tool is a keeper .Oh, and I noticed dirty (pre-used) cells!
> ...


Yay Mike! Soon it won't be scary and you'll be addicted, and will have a hard time trying to stay out of them.
You'll learn about how much smoke to use in time. Experiment and see what happens and take notice of the results.
Then use what works best for y'all.


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## AkDan (Apr 13, 2012)

So when I went on my first inspection and had all heads coming out when separating bars this is aggressive? Every bar I moved they did this no matter how careful I was. I used 0 smoke. Had gloves and a suit, they definatly got hot as I continued into the hive. The roar got much louder so I closed up. This was a few days ago now. I need to get into them to look make sure she's laying at some point. Things cooled off and rainy, waiting for better weather. 

Other than a bar repair I haven't been into the 2nd hive. I do feed regularly every other day which is no more than removing the cover and pouring in syrup.


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## Steven Ogborn (Jun 3, 2011)

AkDan said:


> So when I went on my first inspection and had all heads coming out when separating bars this is aggressive? Every bar I moved they did this no matter how careful I was. I used 0 smoke. Had gloves and a suit, they definatly got hot as I continued into the hive. The roar got much louder so I closed up. This was a few days ago now. I need to get into them to look make sure she's laying at some point. Things cooled off and rainy, waiting for better weather.
> 
> Other than a bar repair I haven't been into the 2nd hive. I do feed regularly every other day which is no more than removing the cover and pouring in syrup.


If you've got a suit and gloves you should go in and see what is going on. The bees are gonna come up between the bars
when you move them. The smoke makes them busy doing other stuff than worrying about you. 
Suite up, smoke them, then listen for the fanning buzz that runs through the hive. A few seconds after that they'll
be busy loading with honey. Then you can go about your business of seeing what's going on in there.
A couple of puffs here and there after a few minutes while you're working will settle them back down.
Yes. Smoking "scares" your bees, but they'll be okay and not traumatized too much.
What you described sounds normal without using smoke.
As far as the bees getting up between the bars, I've found that using a "bee down strip" helps when closing back up.
I just recently started using them this year. I couldn't come up with anything worth using last year.
I get into my hives under all conditions but, when it's to cold, or when it's actually pouring rain. Even if it's cloudy or a front is
coming through etc. I want to see their reaction under all circumstances.


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## AkDan (Apr 13, 2012)

We were in the I'd 30s last night. I had to pull the sleeping bags off due to the rain. I looked this morning early and they were mostly curld up against the far side. I could see a lot of comb but no cappings. Temps are mid 60s right now. I may go into one of them tonight yet if I get home early enough..... The joys of working a zillion hours


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

If you don't use smoke, sooner or later you will open a cranky hive and they will sting the c...p out of you.

Smoke is easy, cheap, and makes inspections much easier for you and the bees. Use it. It makes very little difference on the amount you disrupt the hive by opening it up in most cases, but if they get really riled up, it's worse than if you used smoke.

I see no point at all in entering a hive that's gonna try to sting me to death just so see "how they react", but I also see not point in going into a hive just to "see what they are doing" unless I suspect something is wrong or I need to check for space requirements, and that can easily wait a day or two. If I'm just doing a routine check and they start buzzing angrily when I crack the inner cover loose, I wait and try again later. I'll go on in if necessary (treatments of some sort, queen installation, etc) but I don't particularly care for being stung. Weather changes make them cranky, so I stay out on days threatening rain, etc. 

Peter


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