# Equipment for 20 queens per week...



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Do you want to consistently get 20 queens? Then you have to figure in hard times your take may only be 50% and in good times it may be close to 100%. That would mean you'll need 40 nucs available every three weeks so you'll need 120 mating nucs. You'd need at least 15 or 20 hives to support those all year long and more in a bad year. You need bees for mating nucs, bees for starters etc.

More would be better.


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## Beezly (Jun 25, 2011)

Thanks Michael. Pretty much what i had figured. I also realize more is better. My #'s were 140 mating nucs, 25-30 colonies, 1 starter maybe 2 and 2-3 finishers. 
thanks again,
mike


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

With the work I've been doing this summer....
I'm using Bro Adam's method of cell building. This involves stocking a strong colony with additional brood harvested from colonies in other yards. That brood can be harvested from strong 3 story overwintered nucleus colonies....I look at these nucs as brood factories. The cell builder can be restocked the day the cells are removed and used for another round. So, if you want 20 queens a week you need to set up one cell builder a week...or in my case, every 8 days..I'm on an 8 day cycle. So that's about 5 to have continous cell builders. To handle the cells, you'll need about 40 mating nucs. To restock the cell builder you'll need 2 strong multiple story nucs per cell builder.

I really did take the plan to the limit this summer, investigating the possibilities. From approx. 50 wintered nucs I saved for cell building, I was able to set up 3-4 cell builders every 4 days from May 9-July 4, catching queens in 124 mating nucs every 4 days. When I finished setting up cell builders for the year, I split up all those wintered nucs into nucs...making 360 nucs.

Doesn't that sound better than using up 25-30 colonies for one round of cells every week? Is using up your production colonies to raise cells a sustainable plan?


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## KevinR (Apr 30, 2010)

Michael Palmer, 

Can you clarify the technique. Maybe I haven't had my coffee yet, but I'm a little unclear on time table that allows you to use 40 mating nucs. What do you mean by a 3 story overwintered Nucleus? Are you talking 15 frames, stacked in 3 five frame mediums? Or are you taking a 5 frame nucleus at the end of summer and over wintering it in a 8/10 frame equipment? How many frames are involved in making the 360 nucs from the 50 overwintered?

Palmer/Bush, 

Do you use 5 frame medium mating nucs? Do you allow your starters to free fly or do you confine them? I attempted several grafts hear in the 100+ degree temp and poor success. I'm debating on putting a confined starter hive in the garage next year to compare.


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## Beezly (Jun 25, 2011)

Thanks ya'll for the replies. Kevin, I could also use clarification on the techniques. Very interested in learning others ways for success.
Looking forward to more ideas and info.
mike


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## timgoodin (Mar 10, 2007)

I am very much interested in this technique also. I quickly filled my 25 nuc boxes this year then had no where else to put queen cells.

Tim


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

I would recommend taking your deeps (mediums if that's what you use for brood chambers) and cutting grooves along the inside so that compressed cardboard sheets can be slid in (but leave them out until spring)... then put them on your hives... I have my student workers using this method and they prepare all of their brood boxes so that any of them can be used as threeway mating nucs... in spring, you just raise cells and pull a chamber off of each hive (how ever many you need), put a new chamber of foundation on the hive for them to draw during the flow, and separate your brood and food in the threeway and put your cardboard divides in... remove the plugs in the holes drilled for entrances, and plant your first set of cell... when your done mating queens for the season, just pull all of the queens and divides and give them one last cell and a super on top for winter... this saves more resources and is a simplified method, but you will still need to plan ahead and you will need to work according to a breeding schedule.

Hope this helps.


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## ginn68 (Apr 14, 2010)

I was hoping Robert would chime in. I prefer the flex of using the dividers. For me I work full time, but plan to be a small scale quality queen breeder next year on the side. Lord willing I will raise more queens than engineering projects at a plant. I want to take it slow due to the focus on quality. I look forward to hearing everyones input on the subject.


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## rkereid (Dec 20, 2009)

Thanks Beezly for asking this question. You brought out all the big guns! Very good info for all of us trying to perfect a queen rearing system that works for our own particular situation.

A local longtime queen rearer in my area says he needs one production hive for each queen he raises per week. He raises around 20 per week during the season, hence 20 production hives to provide support.


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## Beezly (Jun 25, 2011)

It is wonderful to have the massive amount of knowledge and wisdom available here! Also thanks to all of you for sharing it with us. Want to learn better techniques. Thanks again,
mike


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## broodhead (May 30, 2009)

Making those queens and supporting those queens are two different aspects. I use a double five frame cloake method, and it will produce twenty with no problem. Having the hives to support those queens is a different question, depending upon how you plan to bank, split, or use mating nucs.


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

This may help some. If you cut groves into your deeps (chambers, can be mediums, I'm just going to say deeps so the pics can be more understandable), make compressed cardboard partitions and make up bottoms with groved shims around the edges, you can use the deeps on your hives over winter until you are ready to mate queens in spring... when you pull the deeps (usually the top chamber from however many hive you want), simply place another deep of new foundation back in its place to be drawn and filled with brood and food and the hive has simply been (split) and can be returned to production status... the deep that you took off should be filled with brood and food and you can easily place the compressed cardboard dividers in and pull the plugs from the three enterances... now you have a threeway mating nuc and a hive that is still in production... if you keep on a schedule, this three way will stay packed all season and you can mate 3 queens in each deep that you use this way. I advise that you make up more deeps than you need so you have a place to put frames of brood and food when the holes get over crowded (also good for the situations that MB mentioned... having more cells than you need from one graft and not enough from another)... Here are some pics that may help describe it...

Three way deep mating nuc/brood chamber... note that these have routed enterances... not necessary and we rarely do this... just a 1/2" hole in an odd spot is plenty... venting is provided via a partial sceened area on opposite ends of the bottoms for the nucs... this keeps the queens from going after their neighbors...









Another veiw









And another









Under the top


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

The double on the right has two threeway deep mating nucs serving as the brood chambers... the one on the left has had the dividers pulled and supers put on (full already ... both of these hives began as one double that came through last winter and had the top chamber (now the bottom chamber on the left) removed and used to mate queens, and a new deep added to be filled... The hive on the right was the doner and has been split twice this season creating two new hives like the one on the left and has already built back up to a double and produced 4 supers...









Here is another one... note that the enterance holes are plugged while not in use as mating nucs..









hope this helps!


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## timgoodin (Mar 10, 2007)

Mr. Russell thank you for the pictures, as they say a picture is worth a thousand words. I have a hard time visualizing what I read but can pretty well copy an idea if I can see it.

Would you happen to have a picture of the bottom board with the deep off?

Thanks again. 

Tim


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

I was talking about 3 story 4 deep frame...12 frames...over wintered nucs being used as brood factories. Each nuc receives 2 frames with brood and 1 frame of feed. 1 empty comb from storage is added. Feed frame may come from excess nectar frames from cell builders when not available from the parent nucs. The nucs were made over the course of 5 weeks so the parent nucs could raise additional brood.

I use 4 frame mini-nucs. I don't use a traditional swarm box starter.


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## Beezly (Jun 25, 2011)

Great info! Thank you for sharing the info and pics. Seems like there is a hunger for this info from alot of us. Thanks again.
mike


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

rrussell6870 said:


> The double on the right has two threeway deep mating nucs serving as the brood chambers...


I appreciate all of the great info. Still trying to figure out the details... The one on the right has two deeps and a medium. I assume that the two deeps are each separated into the three compartments. What about the medium on top, is it also separated?


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

When the threeways are not in use as mating nucs, the compressed cardboard divides are removed, so they are just standard deeps while used as hives... much like MP described his overwintered nucs as brood factorys, these are just regular hives with double deep brood chambers, producing a full chamber of brood, food, and bees that can be taken away and separated by the compressed cardboard divides to turn one 10 frame deep brood chamber into three, three frames mating nucs with out having to purchase, build, or stock any nuc boxes... think of it as making a split from a hive... the original give builds right back and returns to production, while the split is used to mate 3 queens at a time, and becomes one new hive when you are done mating queens.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Do you use 5 frame medium mating nucs? 

I use mostly medium ten frame boxes divided into four two frame nucs. If I was doing it again, I'd make three ways out of eight frame boxes just to save some weight. My standard frame is mediums and my standard nuc is a frame of brood and a frame of honey.

>Do you allow your starters to free fly or do you confine them? 

I put a frame of brood, a frame of honey (all with bees) and one shake of bees from a frame of brood to make up for the drift and they are free flying from the start.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesqueenrearing.htm#matingnucs


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