# Combine queenless swarm with new split?



## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

If it was me, I'd give it a frame with eggs, and would not try to combine it with a hive. I say this because I've had my hive queen killed in the past from combining queenless swarms with it.


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## Kiddkop (Sep 18, 2014)

Yes, that is what I would do. Put the swarm bees and the split bees together. Smoke them good. There will be very little if any fighting.


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## greathorned (Apr 25, 2013)

The answer is dependent upon what you want to achieve. Do you want more hives, or possibly a boat load of fall honey? Both answers above are valid. Combining now will yield an awesome display of gathering, especially since you likely have the temps for bee's to be foraging right now. If you combine them move them a mile and combine with a piece of newspaper between the hive bodies, placing the weakest on top at sunset. After one week you can bring them home and reposition........at sunset.


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## gezellig (Jun 11, 2014)

So you've seen no eggs or brood at all? Why not give them a frame of eggs/brood from the strong hive and see if they try to make a queen? You'll have the swarm and split to = two more hives. Like greathorned said, "depends on what you want to achieve"


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## bison (Apr 27, 2011)

I don't really need any more hives, thus the thought of combining the split and swarm rather than adding a frame of eggs to the swarm. I'd just as soon have one stronger hive than two smaller ones. Since the split doesn't have a queen now there's no risk of killing a queen by combining, so I figured I could just combine them directly and not worry much about fighting, etc.


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## greathorned (Apr 25, 2013)

Combining them without the newspaper will almost certainly kill the queen, and cause a war. The delay caused by the newspaper is the delay you need to assure the Queens life and blend the two hives without a war. It allows the Queenless hive to get used to the smell of the new Queen and not maul her.


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## rweaver7777 (Oct 17, 2012)

A double-screen board will do the same as the newspaper but it is more work. If you have one laying around and want to use it.


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## bison (Apr 27, 2011)

I made the split three days ago so there is no queen... Should only be uncapped queen cells now.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

There is also a possibility that there was a virgin queen in the swarm and she has been taking mating flights and hasn't started laying yet. If I do a newspaper combine I like to make sure there is only one queen. 

I would first take a frame with some eggs and put it in the swarm hive to see if they start any queen cells. Waiting a few extra days isn't going to hurt, and you will have some answers to make better decisions on how to proceed.


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## bison (Apr 27, 2011)

Thanks to all - I took a look again today and no signs at all of a queen in the swarm. Meanwhile there were several nice queen cells in the split - uncapped with larvae in them. I went ahead and put the three frames off bees from the split into the 10 frame deep with the two frames of swarm bees leaving a couple of frames in between to give them some separation at first. I presume this will end well with one strong hive, all I'm looking for.


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## Tavery (Jun 10, 2014)

bison said:


> Thanks to all - I took a look again today and no signs at all of a queen in the swarm. Meanwhile there were several nice queen cells in the split - uncapped with larvae in them. I went ahead and put the three frames off bees from the split into the 10 frame deep with the two frames of swarm bees leaving a couple of frames in between to give them some separation at first. I presume this will end well with one strong hive, all I'm looking for.


I am intrigued to hear how this turned out in the end. Do we have queenless hive or a thriving queenright hive.


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