# Crush and strain not good



## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

It's not a bad practice if that's how you want to do it. You are correct, drawn comb saved from year to year, sure does make it easier and faster to get spring buildup and honey crop. If you want to harvest wax as well, then crush and strain would be fine.


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## lavert5 (Mar 6, 2011)

I've read it takes 8lbs of nectar for 1 lb of wax. But I have top bar hives so this is the method I use. I'm setting up a few Langstroth hives this year and probably at first will crush and strain as well.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

I would look at the downstream products as well. You will get wax if you want it and the honey may be slightly cleaner. I typically extract from only new frames for the year, any brood frames that become honey frames I leave for the bees to winter on. You may cut down on your yield, but if you have good flows and harvest what you need and use it's not a big deal unless you're trying to squeeze every penny out of girls.


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## throrope (Dec 18, 2008)

lavert5 said:


> I've read it takes 8lbs of nectar for 1 lb of wax. But I have top bar hives so this is the method I use. I'm setting up a few Langstroth hives this year and probably at first will crush and strain as well.


While that figure's been around for ever, I've seen no basis that bears scrutiny. Somewhere I read how many pounds of honey a pound of comb stores and that was huge.

I also read comb wax is secreted from the youngest workers and they may do that independently of how much honey they eat, like growing finger nails.

The only one that made sense to me is having comb available during the flow gives the girls a ready place to store vs. building comb as they haul in the goods. I suspect if the build isn't as fast as the flow, they may not gather all they could.

For me and my five hives and three colonies (winter losses), three hundred bucks for a extractor is better spent on buying honey already in the jar.


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

When a flow is on and you have plenty of young bee's, making new wax isn't that big a deal for them. As mentioned, wax is valuable and if that is a product that you want to use, it'll benefit you to harvest the honey AND the wax.


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## laketrout (Mar 5, 2013)

Well that seals it , the wife was thinking about making some candles ! Didn't thing about not getting any wax with extractor . I've seen crush and strain with bags for a filter that way you fill up a 5 gal. bucket , quite a few frames would fit , the other way showed plastic filters that fit in the bucket but said you could only fit in one frame of comb at a time , that doesn't seem right ?


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

I use paint strainers over a bucket. The honey is typically a little cloudier if I crush it hard but it tastes just as good. Just pull / cut the comb off of the frame, drop pieces into the strainer and go to town. Clean up the wax that's left with water so that it won't be too sticky and you're pretty much done.


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## Tom B (May 11, 2011)

I use C&S exclusively. I like the idea that the wax that contains the product that is eaten by me and others is fresh and new, and has the lowest potential of being contaminated. I think that old "8 to 1" ratio is bunk. I use 5 gallon white plastic pails, make sure they are food grade plastic. I drill a bunch of 1/2" holes in the upper bucket and put a plain old stainless steel screen sieve underneath. The only other tools needed are a bread knife to cut the honeycomb out of the frame, and a potato masher to mash it up. I do the mashing one frame at a time in a dishpan and then transfer the mash to the upper bucket. The honey I get is very clear, very little wax actually makes it through the holes in the bottom of the bucket. I usually let the wax+honey mash drain for at least 3 days. During the winter, I work on cleaning up the wax I collected during harvest season, ending up with a nice supply of solid beeswax blocks that people like to use for candles and other things.


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## DLMKA (Feb 7, 2012)

I think honey that was crushed and strained tastes better. I think it oxidizes coming off the comb in the extractor.


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## rweakley (Jul 2, 2004)

I used to crush and strain until the girls paid for the extractor. I also think the 8 lbs figure is probably a bunch of bull also, however there is a cost and it's what I would call opportunity cost. Around here we have a pretty short flow, and if the girls don't have somewhere to put the nectar and spread it out to dry you are missing out on harvest time or your opportunity to make honey. To me it's about time and not about nectar or honey.

Rod


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

It's hard to nail down exactly how much honey goes into making wax, but wax has about 8 times the energy content that sugar has -- check out the calorie difference between oil or fat and sugar. Therefore, since the only source of the carbon for making wax is nectar, the bees had to use quite a bit of nectar up making the wax to store honey in.

I do believe you get much larger yeilds of honey if you have all drawn comb. My strong hive, and my brother's hive, both have at least a full shallow of nectar stored already, with occasional cells capped and are busy working more. If they were working only foundation or empty frames, they would only be building comb as my weak hive, without a super of drawn comb, is.

Getting plenty of new wax made in the spring on the main flow is not a problem, but I figure a box of empty frames pretty much costs me half a shallow super of honey compared to giving them a box of drawn frames.

Peter


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## Aerindel (Apr 14, 2012)

Depends on how much you want honey and how much you want wax. I think wax is a valuable substance in its own right so I have no problem with C&S, I would be wanting to harvest wax anyway.


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

And, remember, extracting honey using a hot knife does give cappings wax. It's not near so much wax as crush and strain would give, but you do get some very clean wax.


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## RiodeLobo (Oct 11, 2010)

psfred said:


> It's hard to nail down exactly how much honey goes into making wax, but wax has about 8 times the energy content that sugar has -- check out the calorie difference between oil or fat and sugar.


Fat: 1 gram = 9 calories 
Protein: 1 gram = 4 calories 
Carbohydrates: 1 gram = 4 calories


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

I watched a PBS documentary, I believe they threw a 6:1 figure out there.


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## Seymore (May 1, 2009)

JRG13 said:


> I typically extract from only new frames for the year, any brood frames that become honey frames I leave for the bees to winter on.


Many of my frames are starting their 4th year of use. I read it's a good idea to cycle out old comb after 3-5 years. After making sure I have winter stores I wil CNS what remains. Do you prefer not to CNS old brood frames because the honey is darker or possible chemicals in the honey or what? Just curious. Thanks.


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## Ravenzero (Sep 26, 2012)

I think this can be scientifically resolved if someone fed a new package of bees 3 pounds of raw honey before nectar flow, let them build as much new comb in a month, cull the bees and remove ALL COMB, strain and melt it down, and there you go! You have a ratio!


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## Seymore (May 1, 2009)

Raw honey wd b 2:1 tho, yes?


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

I wash my crushed wax/capping and equipment with just enough water to clean them. Save the water and make mead. 

It is easy to make and so many variation to make it to your taste.


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## johng (Nov 24, 2009)

Seymore, I don't think many people rotate out super comb. I have heard of people rotating out brood comb on a five year cycle. I think the idea behind it is contaminants build up in the brood comb over time because of the bees bringing in stuff from the environment. 

I don't think c&s is a bad thing. But, it has to cost something in the honey production. Having drawn comb will help you with swarm control in the spring. You may not have to buy an extractor your first couple years. Our local bee club has extracting parties where several people will bring their supers to someones house and extract all the honey. The club also has two extractors they rent out for $10 a weekend. So there maybe some other options out there for ya.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Drawing wax is what bees do. 

I kept bees for 26 years without an extractor...

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesharvest.htm


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## Riskybizz (Mar 12, 2010)

Some people may drive the same car for 26 years too but what difference does that make? The fact of the matter is that some people are just more frugal than others but there really isn't any right or wrong here. If you can afford to purchase an extractor and want to extract a few boxes of honey go for it. I was at a small beekeeping gathering one day and watched a few locals crush and strain their top bar honey. The sight of all those hands squishing and playing with the honey was enough to make you swear off eating honey for awhile.


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## laketrout (Mar 5, 2013)

Has anyone used the filter bags that can compare them to the plastic filters .

http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/Nylon-Strainer-Bag/productinfo/785/

http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/5-Gallon-Filtering-System/productinfo/804/


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## johng (Nov 24, 2009)

The paint strainer bags from the local hardware store is gonna be easier to use. With the bag you can twist the top and really squeeze it. Then hang it over a bucket to drip. The plastic strainers are gonna be slow because you can only get so much in while your waiting on it to drip. The bags are cheap from Home depot or Lowes type stores.


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## laketrout (Mar 5, 2013)

I was afraid the plastic strainer bowls would not hold enough , be nice if you could get 10 frames of comb in the bucket at one time and let it go .


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Some people may drive the same car for 26 years too but what difference does that make?

I would consider that just good and broken in... I drove the same van from 1970 until 1999... I would guess it saved me 10s of thousands of dollars... that's what difference it makes...


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## Silverbackotter (Feb 23, 2013)

Riskybizz said:


> The sight of all those hands squishing and playing with the honey was enough to make you swear off eating honey for awhile.


Then wash your hands or use a potato masher.


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## Riskybizz (Mar 12, 2010)

> "I drove the same van from 1970 until 1999... I would guess it saved me 10s of thousands of dollars"

well that's one to save a few bucks to buy and extractor.


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## Aerindel (Apr 14, 2012)

> The sight of all those hands squishing and playing with the honey was enough to make you swear off eating honey for awhile.


You would think that the sight of all those little bugs regurgitating nectar would be worse.

But i've never owned a car for less than 20 years so maybe I'm just old fashioned. Heck, my cell phone is seven years old.


But I can't honestly decide if its the wax or the honey that I want more so CS is the only way I'll go.


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## cerezha (Oct 11, 2011)

Riskybizz said:


> ... The sight of all those hands squishing and playing with the honey was enough to make you swear off eating honey for awhile.


Well, do you drink vine? They used feet to crush the grapes... Do you drink beer? They keep pots open for weeks, so insects and other elements drop into the pot for really good natural fermentation... Do you eat cheese - mold on the cheese made cheese the cheese... what else? steaks - for the best ones, they let meat to decompose for a few weeks, than use center part for delicious steak! Also, most of the really good chefs prepare food with bare hands and ... well, if they drop precious piece, they just pick it up and continue... 

I personally, do not touch the honey, when I crush-and-strain - I use bread-knife to cut comb into pieces and I further break them using my wife's favorite SS sturdy spatula...


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## cerezha (Oct 11, 2011)

throrope said:


> While that figure's been around for ever, I've seen no basis that bears scrutiny. ....


 I agree, it is even in respected Wikipedia! To,me, it is like to measure how much honey I need to consume to produce a liter, for instance ... a saliva! My body produces saliva constantly and I do not need to consume *additional *honey for this. I guess, it may be similar for bees - they just normally produce wax at some stage of their lives. If they do not need wax - their bodies still produce some wax (probably less) and it is just spoiled as our saliva when we do not eat... I was trying to find any scientific literature on this but without any luck. Anybody could help?


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## Riskybizz (Mar 12, 2010)

None of the wine you can buy in your local supermarket or wine shop will have been made that way. Commercial wineries have not used that technique for quite a while. Some home-made wines may have been made from grapes crushed that way, but it is not a practical technique to use when mass-producing wine. My response to the original post was directed at a particular event I happed to witness. Its one of those things that you had to be there to really appreciate. I am by no means condemning all those who crush their own honey by various means. In this case try using your imagination a little and you might be more attuned to what I was referring to.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Heck, my cell phone is seven years old.

Mine was more than that, but they made me replace it... again... because they keep saying the technology is outdated. It makes me mad... I'd still have one from 20 years ago if they would let me use it...

Obviously if you're going to use your hands in processing food, you need to wash them very thoroughly and scrub your fingernails as well...


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## greg zechman (Nov 2, 2010)

mr bush....i read your articles on crush and strain...but you didnt say how you removed the bees from the super...or did i miss it the both times that i read it.....how do YOU do it?


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## Aerindel (Apr 14, 2012)

> Mine was more than that, but they made me replace it... again... because they keep saying the technology is outdated. It makes me mad... I'd still have one from 20 years ago if they would let me use it...


How did they make you? Hold a gun to your head or what?


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## throrope (Dec 18, 2008)

greg zechman said:


> mr bush....i read your articles on crush and strain...but you didnt say how you removed the bees from the super...or did i miss it the both times that i read it.....how do YOU do it?


I pull the frames one at a time and shake the bees back into the hive, walk the frame about 10 or so yards away and place it in a super or nuc with bottom and lid. A cheap dollar store 3" paint brush safely sweeps the girls away. Just keep it clear of the smoker. That takes care of all but a few. Then I carry the super into the garage and close the door against followers. If too many came along, I'll do another frame by frame transfer into the garage. I sweep off the stragglers and cut out the comb into a bucket, covering after each cut. After that, I'm good for a brew. I prefer to grab the frames as the girls fill them instead of waiting for the end of the flow. This makes for twenty minute visits at the end of the day instead of an all day affair and lets me stock fresh frames between built but not capped stores.

Later when I feel like it, I'll smash the comb with a drill mixer and do the double bucket straining. Here time is my friend. I let the strained honey sit for a month or more depending on how much procrastinating I feel like enjoying. The fines will float to the top leaving me with very clean honey to bottle from the gate at the bottom and enjoy over the following year.

The calendar time takes longer than extracting, but the two or three hours of work for the entire harvest happens when I have it.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>but you didnt say how you removed the bees from the super...or did i miss it the both times that i read it.....

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesharvest.htm#beeremoval

>how do YOU do it? 

Usually I just harvest late and the bees are down in the cluster and not up in the supers. During a flow I usually do abandonment. If it's not a flow and it's not cold enough to make them cluster, then I brush them off each frame, or I wait until it's cold...


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

I drive old cars too, but I don't crush them every year! 
Yes you can do c+s, yes it is fine to do , but why would you?


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## Pink Cow (Feb 23, 2010)

laketrout said:


> I was afraid the plastic strainer bowls would not hold enough , be nice if you could get 10 frames of comb in the bucket at one time and let it go .


You can do that. 

At a hardware store, buy two buckets, one lid and a package of five gallon paint strainers. In the bottom of one bucket, drill a whole bunch of 1" holes with enough space between them to keep the plastic from breaking apart. Take out as much plastic with the drill as you safely can. This is the strainer bucket. Put one of the paint strainers in it and place the bottom into the second (collector) bucket. I use shims to keep the strainer bucket from settling tight into the collector because they can be very hard to separate. Fill strainer with your crushed comb, and let it happen. Give it plenty of time, remove the strainer bucket for cleaning, put the lid on the collector - done.


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## Aerindel (Apr 14, 2012)

> Yes you can do c+s, yes it is fine to do , but why would you?


Because you don't want to buy an extractor....or store one.


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

Aerindel said:


> Because you don't want to buy an extractor....or store one.


Or, as mentioned already, you want the wax. To sell, or make candles, etc. I honestly don't know the going price of wax but I'd bet it's pretty comparable pound for pound to the value of honey.


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## Capricorn (Apr 20, 2009)

The local bee supply place out here, Glory Bee Foods, rents an extractor for the weekend for something like 10$. Hard to beat that. I did crush and strain my first couple years, I think its great, but I want more drawn comb as a resource.

As for the question a while back about crush and strain of old brood comb, you'll find that the brood comb has cocoons in it. Having just processed a bunch of old brood comb in boiling water, I was surprised by just how much was in there. I wouldn't want to crush and strain through them personally. Does anyone know if using a solar melter on them will filter out all the wax? Straining them out of boiling water took a lot of wax with them.

Some of the good sources of wax I've had has been from doing cutouts, and from damaged frames, frames that I thought were drawn out too horribly, or old frames I've started to cycle out.


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## JStinson (Mar 30, 2013)

> I've read it takes 8lbs of nectar for 1 lb of wax.


I've seen that figure too. I just wonder what the actual exchange rate is. I mean, nectar weighs more than wax in the first place, so a pound of wax spread out in a thin comb pattern would give you quite a large area of wax. 

It reminds me of a radio ad I used to hear. It was for a train company and it went something like this, "Our trains can carry a ton of freight 249 miles on one gallon of fuel." That's wonderful, until you realize that an average freight car weighs 63 tons (according to wikipedia). People have no concept of how light a ton really is...or how much honeycomb and nectar weigh. The exchange rate is not taken into account for fuel to freight cars or nectar to comb so the comparison turns into apples and oranges. 



I really need to go to bed.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I've seen that figure too. I just wonder what the actual exchange rate is

IMO, it's not the conversion that matters, it's having a place to store the nectar. If there is a place to store it, the bees will gather it. If there is not, then some of the time they could have been gathering nectar gets spent drawing comb. There is no doubt that a colony with drawn comb will make more honey than one without it. However, a colony with foundationless will make more honey than one with foundation, because of the time factor. They build comb much faster without foundation.

As far as research on the conversion rate, probably Huber's research is the best one done so far. The other one that is often quoted was feeding old, off honey with free flying bees in a dearth... hard to say what the numbers mean exactly, but there is evidence that bees get more efficient in making wax as they go, and younger bees are more efficient than older bees...

Expense of making wax

Richard Taylor on the expense of making wax:

"The opinion of experts once was that the production of beeswax in a colony required great quantities of nectar which, since it was turned into wax, would never be turned into honey. Until quite recently it was thought that bees could store seven pounds of honey for every pound of beeswax that they needed to manufacture for the construction of their combs--a figure which seems never to have been given any scientific basis, and which is in any case quite certainly wrong. The widespread view that if the combs were used over and over, through the use of the honey extractor, then the bees would be saved the trouble of building them and could convert the nectar thus saved into honey, was only minimally correct. A strong colony of bees will make almost as much comb honey as extracted honey on a strong honey flow. The advantage of the extractor, in increasing harvests, is that honey stored from minor flows, or gathered by the bees over many weeks of the summer, can easily be extracted, but comb honey cannot be easily produced under those conditions."

From Beeswax Production, Harvesting, Processing and Products, Coggshall and Morse pg 35

"Their degree of efficiency in wax production, that is how many pounds of honey or sugar syrup are required to produce one pound of wax, is not clear. It is difficult to demonstrate this experimentally because so many variables exist. The experiment most frequently cited is that by Whitcomb (1946). He fed four colonies a thin, dark, strong honey that he called unmarketable. The only fault that might be found with the test was that the bees had free flight, which was probably necessary so they could void fecal matter; it was stated that no honey flow was in progress. The production of a pound of beeswax required a mean of 8.4 pounds of honey (range 6.66 to 8.80). Whitcomb found a tendency for wax production to become more efficient as time progressed. This also emphasizes that a project intended to determine the ratio of sugar to wax, or one designed to produce wax from a cheap source of sugar, requires time for wax glands to develop and perhaps for bees to fall into the routine of both wax secretion and comb production."

The problem with most of the estimates on what it takes to make a pound of wax is they don't take into account how much honey that pound of wax will support

From Beeswax Production, Harvesting, Processing and Products, Coggshall and Morse pg 41

"A pound (0.4536 kg.) of beeswax, when made into comb, will hold 22 pounds (10 kg.) of honey. In an unsupported comb the stress on the topmost cells is the greatest; a comb one foot (30 cm.) deep supports 1320 times its own weight in honey."

Huber was using confined bees and repeated the experiments several times.

"A pound (453 grams) of white sugar, reduced to syrup, and clarified with the white of an egg, produced 10 gros 52 grains (1.5 ounces or 42 grams) of beeswax darker than that which bees extract from honey. An equal weight of dark brown sugar yielded 22 gros (3 ounces or 84 grams) of very white wax; a similar amount was obtained from maple sugar.

"We repeated these experiments seven times in succession, with the same bees and we always obtained wax in nearly the same proportions as above. It therefore appears demonstrated that sugar and the saccharine part of honey enable the bees that feed upon it to produce wax, a property entirely denied to the fecundating dust."--Francis Huber, New Observations on Bees


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

There are a lot of available options to crush and strain. There are a lot more extractors sold every year, not many wearing out. If those options still are not for you, may I suggest trim and strain. Spread out your frames and get oversize comb. Trim off, drain what will and move above inner cover. With a wide gap super below inner cover and trimmed comb above the bees will leave empty comb above and deep comb below. Will not get all of the honey immediately or all of the wax. Will have drawn comb for storing peak flow nectar until it is compressed into honey.


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## JStinson (Mar 30, 2013)

That was an incredible post, Mr. Bush. Thanks!


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## lfm (May 17, 2013)

Good on you Michael. I agree with your methods.


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## Tom Davidson (Mar 20, 2012)

If optimizing a honey flow is an issue for someone and they want all they can get, another option could be to C&S at the end of your nectar flow, and when you're feeding for fall and winter preparations let them draw out those combs for the season and following spring, then repeat. It'll take more feed to get them to draw, I would think, but it would be one way to have the best of both worlds.

I am so tempted to try C&S this year and see where it takes me, and leave my extractor in the storage room. At the same time, I want to do as little as possible with the largest returns on my time. I know how long it took me to extract from 2 hives last year (about 8 hours). I want to make products with wax and let my bees (and nuc & honey customers) have the freshest combs possible, so I'm leaning the C&S way. 

Michael, why did you eventually get an extractor and do you still practice C&S any more?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Michael, why did you eventually get an extractor and do you still practice C&S any more? 

I had the cash, the extractor was on sale, my apiary was growing, it was a bumper crop year and I had about 60 supers to extract...


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## tommysnare (Jan 30, 2013)

im for both sides on this issue but here is some food for thought. 
we have both langs and TBH's. we are planning obviously selling comb honey or crush and strain from the tbh's.and primarily extracting from the langs. other than setting up some ross rounds. we are foundationless and try to stick as strict as we can to no treatment ... other than some feeding we had to do this year due to the weather and frosted bloom seasons.
soo getting to the point hahah:
in nature ... do the girls tear down the old comb after they have drwn it,had brood in it or honey or backfilled or whatever. nope. my point is that to ME drawn comb is very valuable especially to the girls. imagine being the guy whos only job 8 hrs a day is to paint a bridge. as soon as he's done he hast to start alllll over. or people who mow huge plts of land as a living. im pretty sure it would wear on you. now, imagine if ur a bee and the flow hits BAM ! then everyone is saying WE NEED COMB TO STORE FOOD ! and here comes the silly beekeeper BAM ! "hey wait.... thats the comb we drew last year ...... GO FORAGE !!!!!!" just some thought . 

kinda takes some stress off the girls and some workload. every one is happy. 

of course youll want to freeze the extracted comb and maybe tear it out every couple years. 

just ise the TBH wax for candles no biggie


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## tommysnare (Jan 30, 2013)

yeah ... i bow to Mr. Bush's expertise.... again hahaha.


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## melliferal (Aug 30, 2010)

cerezha said:


> Well, do you drink vine? They used feet to crush the grapes... Do you drink beer? They keep pots open for weeks, so insects and other elements drop into the pot for really good natural fermentation... Do you eat cheese - mold on the cheese made cheese the cheese... what else? steaks - for the best ones, they let meat to decompose for a few weeks, than use center part for delicious steak! Also, most of the really good chefs prepare food with bare hands and ... well, if they drop precious piece, they just pick it up and continue...


I don't do alcohol because I'm boring like that; but I suspect that most winemakers these days except for the artificially-inflated "gourmet" brands actually mechanically press the grapes, and bugs do not carry as many germs as human hands; and mold used in cheese culture is similarly sterile, and steak is cooked before it's eaten which kills anything in it anyway. Actual chefs wash their hands, _a lot_, and they do not use food from the floor - you're mistaking them for the teenagers at McDonald's, which are not chefs - but at least they're required to wear gloves and hairnets.

I extract, so I have incidental hand contact with the honey itself - but even so, during harvest time I take my cue from the professional chefs and wash my hands, often, during the process (though to be fair, it's mostly because everything gets sticky, and needs to be rinsed now and then so it can still be worked with).

If I were to crush and strain - which does sound very interesting to me I might add - I'd probably use a much, much, much more efficient method than squeezing with my hands. Off the top of my head - I'd use a gently sloping hard wooden or plastic surface with a ledge on the bottom to hold the comb, and then use a rubber squeegee roller to crush the comb from the top down, letting the honey drain off the end of the board and into the strainer/bucket.

With the right size roller or even just a straight squeegee, you could probably even crush and strain comb on plastic foundation with ease. Just use the frame itself as its own support, and flatten that comb out over the strainer. Once the honey is removed in this way, if you want to keep the wax you could probably pop the plasticell sheet out of the frame and use a steak knife to saw off the comb. This strikes me as a decent compromise; you don't get to keep as much wax as straining straight comb, but you're left with the foundation with already a bit of wax still attached to get the bees started with next year.


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## cerezha (Oct 11, 2011)

melliferal said:


> ... Actual chefs wash their hands, _a lot_, and they do not use food from the floor - you're mistaking them for the teenagers at McDonald's, which are not chefs - but at least they're required to wear gloves and hairnets...


 You lost the point. My message you cited was in respond to somebody (see above), who was disgusted when bee-club did community crush-and-strain and people used their hands to crush the honey. I am sure, they washed their hands. [/QUOTE]



melliferal said:


> ...If I were to crush and strain.... I'd use a gently sloping hard wooden or plastic surface with a ledge on the bottom to hold the comb, and then use a rubber squeegee roller to crush the comb from the top down, letting the honey drain off the end of the board and into the strainer/bucket...


 You should try and report to us. I think, honey is too viscous for your approach - you need to warm it for better fluidity ...


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## melliferal (Aug 30, 2010)

cerezha said:


> You lost the point. My message you cited was in respond to somebody (see above), who was disgusted when bee-club did community crush-and-strain and people used their hands to crush the honey. I am sure, they washed their hands.


I did read the whole exchange; and I'm pointedly not sure they washed their hands, as I'm sure the original poster wasn't we he said watching all the hands in the honey put him off honey for a while. I've used too many public restrooms and seen enough people leave even such a place without washing their hands to be unwilling to give any large group of people the benefit of that doubt. Sure, maybe they washed their hands before they came to the gathering; but how many then touched the doors of their houses, the keys and steering wheels of their cars, and who knows what else, that rarely if ever get cleaned? One individual that I really know well? Maybe. But the more and more people with bare hands touching the honey, the chance that one of the group is not a hand-washer goes up logarithmically.



cerezha said:


> You should try and report to us. I think, honey is too viscous for your approach - you need to warm it for better fluidity ...


Maybe, maybe not. I've noticed in the hive that comb crushed with, say, the end of a hive tool folds very flat the way some trellis are designed to be folded. And the honey tended to run out fairly easy. Outside the hive it will be less viscous; but the great part of using a squeegee is that if the honey takes too long to run off the end of the board, you can just use the squeegee to push it off.


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## cerezha (Oct 11, 2011)

melliferal said:


> ... I've used too many public restrooms and seen enough people leave even such a place without washing their hands to be unwilling to give any large group of people the benefit of that doubt. ...


 From another hand, bees do not wash their hands/legs entering the hive and it is well known that they bring inside the hive all kind of stuff. I think, we had a discussion on beesource and many people pointed out that the bees love to drink water from compost bins, use livestock urine, lick cow poop and use other not very clean places. Also, when you remove/inspect frames - did you wash everything which touched the frame? Your hands, gloves, tools? Did you happens to place the hive-tool on the ground and then use it?


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

If my average temp was 20 degrees higher I might have a differrent view. If it is not spring and a new hive comb building is slow. For sure the 2nd time on a frame is faster. 
I see no sign Michael Bush is going back to crush and strain.


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

With crush and strain to you have to freeze anything first or is that just for cut comb?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I see no sign Michael Bush is going back to crush and strain. 

Once you buy an extractor, it is worth using it.

>With crush and strain to you have to freeze anything first or is that just for cut comb? 

Just for cut comb. Wax moths can't live in liquid honey.


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## cerezha (Oct 11, 2011)

I just crushed 3 deep-size frames of honey-comb last night - today I have 6 kilos of beautiful totally raw honey


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