# Advice/Experience Needed: Radial Extractors



## Oh_Beehave (Apr 8, 2013)

The Great Extractor Debate continues, for me at least. When we started beekeeping, I purchased a used electric 4 frame tangential Dadant extractor that has served us well but we’ve outgrown it’s capacity. I’ve been researching, and I think I’ve narrowed it down to a Lyson 8/20 radial ($895) and a Lega 15 radial ($998). Price is close enough to be considered a non-issue, I’m more interested in YOUR experience with a bottom mounted motor vs a top mounted motor. How is the bottom motor shaft sealed into the extractor? Does anyone have any experiences with a 24V motor (Lyson) vs the 120V motor (Lega)? I like the thought of a top mounted motor/gearbox vs a bottom mounted motor/belt reduction.
Additionally, lid hinges on the Lyson look more substantial than the hinges on the Lega. This may sound trivial, but I don’t want to stop midstream and have to jerry-rig something together when it fails. 

LEGA Pro’s
-	Top mount motor
-	Integrated motor gearbox (no belt)
-	22ga sides and 20ga bottom drum construction

Lega Con’s 
-	Cheap hinge mechanism
-	Warranty unknown


Lyson Pro’s
-	20 frame capacity (Lega is 15)
-	Heavier duty lid hinges
-	3yr warranty

Lyson Con’s
-	24 ga drum (Lega is 22)

At this point, I’m strongly considering a a Lega based on the integrated motor/gearbox and the heavier construction. 

Lega extractor: https://www.blueskybeesupply.com/lega-15-frame-power-radial-extractor-w-german-motor-lg515mex/
Lyson extractor: https://www.blueskybeesupply.com/8-20-frame-lyson-extractor-with-motor-w230/

Thanks in advance!


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## drem00 (Aug 9, 2017)

I have been shopping around for a some radial extractors myself and I have looked at these models as well. However, Betterbee has another version of the Lyson 20 frame extractor that has a lot of upgrades to the one you linked above. You should really look into this one. It is priced the same as the Lega 15 but has a better bang for the buck. Also, the Lyson has better electronics to control the motor and fail safes so the motor doesn't burn out. The easily replaceable fuses will blow before damage happens to the motor or electronics. 

Lyson 20 Frame: https://www.betterbee.com/extracting/lyson216-20m.asp
Youtube Video Review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlnA-tI-2zY


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## Oh_Beehave (Apr 8, 2013)

Awesome, somehow I must have overlooked the Lyson 20. However, this extractor still has a bottom mounted motor. Is that an advantage or disadvantage? Can anyone tell if its a TEFC (Totally Enclosed Fan Cooled) motor? I think a TEFC would allow wash-down without the potential for motor damage.


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## drem00 (Aug 9, 2017)

Like with any electronics and motors you should cover them in a plastic bag or something if you plan on washing them. Also since the motor is bottom mounted you have less of chance to get anything wet with water over spray. 

Below is from the Lyson Manual regarding the motor. Not sure if the Lega has a high efficient motor. It looks like a typical one that runs at full power and requires air cooling for the wasted power it uses. 

EXTRACTOR OVERVIEW
The Lyson W216 and 230P are 20
frame radial extractors with 600mm
drums and variable speed electric
motors. The W230P is the premium
version of the W216.
Both models hold 4 to 8 deep frames
(9-1/8”), 20 medium frames (6-¼”), or 20
shallow frames (5-3/8”). The cover is
made from clear acrylic to allow easy
observation of honey extraction.
The W216 comes standard with a 250W
(~1/3 HP) DC motor while the 230P
comes standard a 350 watt (~1/2 HP)
DC motor. The motor drives the center
shaft with a belt. On some models, the
extractor may also be powered by a 12V
car battery for areas without electricity.
Do not power with a rectifier.
The shaft is mounted on sealed ball
bearings top and bottom. The bottom of
the extractor is conically shaped for
honey draining. Honey is drained
through a welded stainless steel 1-¼
inch gate valve with O-ring seal.
A variable speed DC motor is powered
by an adjustable controller with digital
indication of motor speed. Speed is
adjusted up and down through a
keypad. The motor speed is controlled
by pulse width modulation (PWM),
which switches power on and off as
needed instead of dissipating (i.e.
wasting) power through a rheostat or
resistor. The result is very efficient, low
power extractor operation with excellent
control. The extractor includes a
standard 120V or 220V (depending on
model) grounded power cord. Note:
during operation this type of speed
control emits a high pitched tone. This is
normal and is reduced as speed is
increased.
Other key features include:
• Automatic Braking System
engages when: 1) Stop button is
pushed; 2) Emergency button is
pushed; 3) Cover is lifted.
• Electronic anti-overload
protection
• Auto power OFF: Motor controller
automatically switches off after
15 minutes of inactivity.


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## GoodyFarms (Jul 10, 2016)

Man, if the lyson truly makes that pitch noise in the YouTube video, that would be a deal breaker right there.


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## drem00 (Aug 9, 2017)

Lega's motors sound like a jet engine going off. No quiet working motors on either of these. Pick your poison lol. 

Lega's motor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzu6jJWhy3w


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## Oh_Beehave (Apr 8, 2013)

In a previous life I spend a great deal of time with variable frequency drives (VFD’s) and pulse width modulation (PWM), the most significant difference is AC (VFD) vs DC (PWM). Generally speaking, a PWM’d DC motor is more controllable (read smoother) at low speed when compared to a VFD’d AC motor….efficiency is probably better with a VFD due to the inefficiency found in a AC-to-DC converter. It’s really splitting hairs, let’s consider them equally efficient. My dislike of the (Lyson) DC motor is in the power supply, a AC to DC converter is just another component to fail. The excerpt that you provided from the Lyson manual did however, help sway my vote the other toward Lyson. I’m still concerned about a DC motor and the bottom mount…more so about the shaft seal on a bottom mounted motor.


GoodyFarms: the motor squeal means it’s working! (actually, it’s the PWM driver, but close enough)


Unless I hear opinions/experience to the contrary, I think that a Lyson is in our future.


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## drem00 (Aug 9, 2017)

If you do get a Lyson would you be able to post a detailed review and the pro's and con's with the machine once you use it? It might be very helpful for any future buyers including myself.


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## Oh_Beehave (Apr 8, 2013)

Yep, it settled, I'm buying a Lyson after watching the youtube reviews. The Lega motors are crazy loud! It'll be a while before I get one ordered (after honey sales), but I'll do my best to post a review as a reply to this thread. 
Thank you for your opinions, they helped make the decision easy.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

Do you extract deep frames? 

24” Diameter x 39” Tall

Note: Due to the small diameter, a larger extractor is recommended for deep frames.


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## Oh_Beehave (Apr 8, 2013)

Nope, ALL of our supers are mediums; this should be almost ideal for them.


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## GoodyFarms (Jul 10, 2016)

Oh_Beehave said:


> GoodyFarms: the motor squeal means it’s working! (actually, it’s the PWM driver, but close enough)



You definitely seem to know your motors, but that sound (lega or lyson) would drive me nuts. Perhaps given your experience you might not have an issue replacing the lyson motor if/when it breaks, but for most, it's a lot easier to find and replace a Maxant motor. I will say that my really only qualm with the Maxant 20 is it's a real bear to insert deep frames and I can see the appeal of having a bottom drive motor.


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## drem00 (Aug 9, 2017)

I looked at reviews of the Maxant motors and it sounds just as loud as the Lega. They both are gear driven motors and there designs just make them loud. From what I see all of the motors are European made and not the Chinese low quality crap so they should last a long time with proper care.


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## Farmercal (May 19, 2015)

Boy, after reading the comments on this thread, I am glad I bought an older Dadant 20 frame extractor. I don't recall the motor making any noise throughout the extracting process.


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## GoodyFarms (Jul 10, 2016)

I just bought maxant 20 and would not agree with the assertion that they are loud but it's hard to compare without either a head-2-head comparison or use some sort of decible meter. They definitely do not have that high pitch squeal that the lyson does in that video.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

How many hives do you have? I would look for an older Dadant 36? frame with a standard quiet DC motor and Variac/full wave bridge control. I like iot better than any of the new SCR drives.

Crazy Roland


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## Oh_Beehave (Apr 8, 2013)

Currently, 12 hives with plans (and means) to be at 20 by next fall. Storage space is a huge concern, I'm not sure I could find a good place to store a big ol' 36-er for 51 weeks/year.


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## Oh_Beehave (Apr 8, 2013)

Well folks, tomorrow is the big day…I’m going to order the Lyson W230P from Betterbee. When I called to get a shipping estimate last week, my jaw hit the ground. Off the cuff they estimated $175-225! Luckily we ship a lot of stuff LTL at work and was able to use one of our carriers…saved me about $150 in shipping. Thought I would list the LTL information here for posterity.

48 x 40 x 53 crate
180# shipping weight
Class 125

When it arrives, I’ll do my best to provide some initial feedback.


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## drem00 (Aug 9, 2017)

You should happy with your choice. I got myself the 20 frame Lyson as well but from betterbee. Great machine and it will last a long time.


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## Oh_Beehave (Apr 8, 2013)

The extractor arrived last week and I was able to use it this past weekend during the final extraction. The extractor arrived very well packaged and 100% assembled in a large box screwed to a wooden pallet. Before washing it out, I simply cut the box from the pallet, unwrapped the 3.75 miles of bubble wrap and unscrewed it from the pallet. My 10yr old son, 7 year old daughter and I promptly plugged it in and flipped the ‘ON’ switch. Everything booted up and, oh my, it ran smooth. I’ve attached the manuals (both the LYSON and Betterbee) here. Had I seen the LYSON manual, and all of the features of the controller prior to purchase, it would have made my decision much simpler. It is by no-means the end-all, be-all of controllers, but it does have some nice user-definable features. Such as: accel rate, decal rate, shutdown timer, and the ability to ‘map’ duty cycle to speed settings. 
Extraction was a breeze yesterday – about 18 boxes in 5hrs – sure beats the 12 boxes in 6 hours with a 4-frame tangential. A word of advice: DO NOT think you can run this extractor without attaching it to the ground…trust me. However, once secured to the concrete, it runs so smooth and quiet, we forgot that it was running. 

Above, there was some discussion about the ‘whistle’ from the frequency drive. While it is definitely more noticeable at low speed, it is non-existent at upper speeds (speeds 8-10). Additionally per the LYSON manual, the user can define the PWM frequency. I increased the frequency form 1.2K to 3KHz and move the ‘whistle’ almost completely outside of my audible range (hearing loss is bliss). Here’s my overall evaluation: 

PRO’S: 
•	Well built, heavy construction
•	Very well balanced loaded or empty
•	Intuitive controller

CON’S
•	Wish controller was sealed better, opportunity for water to get into control box. 

To those of you on the fence: DO NOT HESITATE ANY LONGER. I can’t believe the difference that this made in our extracting. The biggest bottle neck now is straining…we can extract faster than we can strain, I already have the next (two) upgrades planned: a MUT from Mann Lake and another 300# storage tank from Dadant. 

Tom


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## Oh_Beehave (Apr 8, 2013)

View attachment 4673_001.pdf


View attachment 4672_001.pdf


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