# What is white wax and when is it first seen



## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

I have read an article that links swarm timing to white wax formation.

I have seen 2 springs with bees but must admit I have never marked down when white wax starts. In fact I am not certain what white wax is.
Is the burr comb I am seeing in the feed rim considered white wax? It is new but not pure white.

When would I expect to first see white wax in the Pacific Northwest?


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

white wax is just fresh wax produced by the correct age worker bees like you would find on freshly capped honey or freshly drawn comb.


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## dawsong (Jun 9, 2013)

White wax will show up right after a honey flow starts in my area it is locust. an Just few days after that little spots of white wax will appear on the nubs that has been cleaned for the Queen to lay in. Be on the lookout for Queen cells to star.t


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## burns375 (Jul 15, 2013)

probably maple for my area. Seeing a bit in the hives today.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

I usually start seeing white wax between Apple & Locust bloom. It does seem to coincide with swarming ... when the swarms are issuing. If I wait until white wax to work on swarm prevention it's usually too late. That should be tackled a few weeks prior.


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

White wax and its connection to locust bloom is not accurate for my upstate NY location. Here swarming and queen cells preceed the black locust flow by at least two or three weeks.

I think of white wax as that which the bees will readily deposit on a foundationless frame inserted near the brood cluster, but in fact I'm sure they are excreting wax earlier than that because they have some capped brood here starting in February, or even late January. I saw the first accidentally dropped wax scales on my sticky boards early last month. Note that I am in upstate NY, in z4/z5, so still quite cold: below zero within the last two weeks and still going down into the low teens at night. But if I dared to (which I don't!) I'm sure if I pulled brood frames, I'd find capped brood. Capped with what, if not fresh white wax?

Enj.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

enjambres said:


> White wax and its connection to locust bloom is not accurate for my upstate NY location. Here swarming and queen cells preceed the black locust flow by at least two or three weeks.
> Enj.


I wonder what nectar source they are working for the 3 weeks leading up to black locust to be able to make wax? do you feed in early spring?


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

They eat that honey.... brood cappings get recycled a lot I believe.


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

When you start seeing White Wax on top of the top bars under the top lid, then it's time to add space as the bees will be swarming soon if you don't. They get all the space used up enough that they start drawing white wax on top of the top bars. This is what I've always heard and seen in my hives, meaning it's time to check for swarm cells and add space.


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## wcubed (Aug 24, 2008)

White wax is the wax generated internally by the bees feeding on light-colored nectar. New wax. Darker nectars generally produce more yellowish wax. Somewhere in the Dadant Big Book there is the statement that all new wax is snow white, but that is in error.

Generation of new wax in profusion is often associated with the beginning of "main flow." The implication is that a surge in field nectar causes the beginning wax-making, and overhead storage of honey. I don't believe that is true. At my location, black locust blooms just before that point on the bees schedule, and wax making has not started yet. No black locust in the supers. At that time on the bees schedule they are changing the make-up of the work force to get ready to store honey at efficient rates. That period is devoted to establishing nectar driers and wax makers.

The field nectar is peaking during that period between 'push to swarm' and start of 'Main flow', when they are not storing overhead. That lull in storing lasts from 2 1/2 to 3 weeks in the fully-established colony.

Walt


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

wcubed said:


> That lull in storing lasts from 2 1/2 to 3 weeks in the fully-established colony.
> 
> Walt


Walt, I have a question regarding the lull period. 

If one were to begin "stimulative" feeding of pollen patties and light syrup with an established colony a few weeks before it is typically available naturally, will that move the lull period timeline up earlier on the calendar?

If I remember correctly the lull period is the colony transition of nurse bees over to a majority of house bees in preparation for the main flow. I'm just wondering, if brood expansion is triggered earlier, will they reach the lull period earlier in the season?


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

So the hives that are filling the feeder rim space with comb ,nectar and drone should be given honey supers above and I should reverse the deeps if the lower one is empty. Do I leave the feeder rim that is packed with lovely comb in place.



RayMarler said:


> When you start seeing White Wax on top of the top bars under the top lid, then it's time to add space as the bees will be swarming soon if you don't. They get all the space used up enough that they start drawing white wax on top of the top bars. This is what I've always heard and seen in my hives, meaning it's time to check for swarm cells and add space.


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

If one is seeing a hive build new comb is that an appropriate time to checkerboard above or open the brood nest in an attempt to cancel swarming


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## burns375 (Jul 15, 2013)

This year i don't think pollen patty would have done much good for our area. The weather was so cold then instantly warmed up. There was pollen coming-in the first warm flying day. 

Swarms will occur from maple to clover. Then again in fall. May is peak time for our area.


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## wcubed (Aug 24, 2008)

Mike G,
Have no experience with your question, and would prefer not to guess. Will say reproductive swarm cut off timing which starts the lull is close to the same timing for all colonies at the same location - within a week of each other. It appears to be a colony assessment of peak forage of the season. That's mind boggling. Perhaps, feeding Could adjust that perception.

WBVC,
If you wait to see white wax at the top of the hive, You are a month late in supering.

And two months late on checkerboarding.

Walt


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## rsjohnson2u (Apr 23, 2012)

wcubed said:


> WBVC,
> If you wait to see white wax at the top of the hive, You are a month late in supering.
> 
> And two months late on checkerboarding.
> ...


Yikes! With our only real flow blackberries in June, that means supering in May during a month of dearth, and checkerboarding in April. Right now, the third week of March, three of my four Carniolan hives barely have two frames of brood coming out of winter (although they've been bring in pollen for a month, we're still two to four weeks away from any real nectar from big leaf maples


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

I went into 2 of the stronger hives yesterday. Brood on 5 frames in both upper and lower deeps. Lots of bur comb in feeder rim...nectar and brood comb. The lower deep was pretty much void of honey. Still some in upper deep but brood frames had brood through to the top.
Placed an empty drawn dadant on the bottom. Reveresed the deeps. Put an open frame that just had a rim of empty drawn comb around the edges on the outside of the now upper deeps brood nest. Then checkered boarded 2 dadants with honey and empty drawn comb above that. Removed the feeder rim and quilt box.
It will be interesting to see what these hives do now.
Walt...do I just leave them until the 2 supers become filled with capped honey and then exchange those for drawn comb or foundation? Are there more manipulations to be done before fall?

There were no Queen cells and no evidence of back filling at this time. Everything seemed to be focused on expansion.


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## Thershey (Mar 12, 2014)

rsjohnson2u said:


> Yikes! With our only real flow blackberries in June, that means supering in May during a month of dearth, and checkerboarding in April. Right now, the third week of March, three of my four Carniolan hives barely have two frames of brood coming out of winter (although they've been bring in pollen for a month, we're still two to four weeks away from any real nectar from big leaf maples


Something not right here, I'm a little south of you but we've had a really mild winter and spring. Most everyone I've spoken to in the NW are way ahead of normal. My carnis had far more brood than that in mid February and all three mediums were packed two weeks ago. Have you checked mites, no stores maybe?


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## wcubed (Aug 24, 2008)

Janne, 
Excellent!,
Nobody, other than you and I, will be more interested in what happens.

rsj,
Dearth does not mean absence of nectar - the word means scarcity. I find it hard to believe that those are the only sources of nectar in your area. I am fortunately in an area where nectar is available continuously from early Feb - to Nov. If it falls below colony feed requirements they give up wax making first to conserve capped honey, but they are foraging small patches of this and that, here and there, to augment feed needs. Not enough to qualify as a "flow", but enough to sustain the colony on short rations. They resist it vigorously, but sometimes they do have to dip into the capped honey reserve that is dedicated to winter survival.

Walt


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## rsjohnson2u (Apr 23, 2012)

Maple, dandelion, some apple, some cherry, blueberry, raspberry, blackberry, fireweed, cabbage, knotweed. My location on an island in the valley floor, has some maple, some blackberry. Knotweed is further north, fireweed in the foothills to the east. Three flows of commercial importance are maple, blackberry, fireweed. According to state of WA, average surplus honey per hive in western WA is 35 pounds. Now, we all know about averages. Some are making a 100 pounds, while others are making zero.
Commercial agriculture is berries, potatoes, and cabbage seed. Used to be cukes, but lost the processing plant. Not really much tree fruit (that's eastern WA). Fireweed hard for hobbyists to get.


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## rsjohnson2u (Apr 23, 2012)

Thershey said:


> Something not right here, I'm a little south of you but we've had a really mild winter and spring. Most everyone I've spoken to in the NW are way ahead of normal. My carnis had far more brood than that in mid February and all three mediums were packed two weeks ago. Have you checked mites, no stores maybe?


Up here to the north is a mixed bag. The people I talk with have some colonies WAY ahead, others are normal. Yes, it was a mild winter, but old-timers feel we're only about a week ahead bloom-wise. The big difference is the amount of flying weather they've had this winter, and access to tree pollen.

I have hives that are already on their second drone brood cycle, and have 4-5 frames of brood in each of two deeps, and I have others that went into winter as eight frames of brood that were down to two frames of bees by Feb. Took bees and brood out of the strong to allow for more coverage of brood area in weak.

To stay on topic, I also checker boarded one of the strongest today. Mainly, because they were all bees and almost no stores. Added a deep of capped honey, with some empty dark comb in there as well. Did not super. 
Do bees swarm if the parent hive is starving? I thought they would want the parent colony to have stores. What if there is no honey dome, because they've consumed it all before they next flow?


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## genmaster (Jan 10, 2015)

I hope the picture I'm discussing is uploaded and included with this post.

This chart shows the swarm prep format plotted against tree bloom for Middle Tennessee/Northern Alabama.

We do not know what the vegetative bloom availability is for all areas of the country.

Some areas, this waterfall may be spread for lack of vegetation. We're lucky to have continuous bloom of interest to the bees.

The sequence will remain the same anywhere, but you will have to adapt to the timing for your bloom support.


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## genmaster (Jan 10, 2015)

WBVC asked ...do I just leave them until the 2 supers become filled with capped honey and then exchange those for drawn comb or foundation?

Just keep adding supers of comb and foundation (in main flow) on top. No need to remove them unless you move the lower super to the bottom for a pollen box once brood is being laid in it. When the brood hatches, they backfill it with pollen for feed in the fall.


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## wcubed (Aug 24, 2008)

Been meaning to get back to this thread since Debbie posted her chart. Other priorities.

First, a comment on WBVC's question on the CBed supers. The intent of opening the overhead capped honey reserve with empty comb was to subvert the backfilling of the broodnest as the first stage of swarm preps. Worked well. An unexpected result of CBing was the expansion of the broodnest through the CBed supers - creating a much larger broodnest and greater populations. (generally doubling surplus honey) So, the answer to your question about what to do with CBed supers is wait until the broodnest recedes below, and they are capped honey. In the meantime, they will be filled with brood and supporting stores. Some folks resist harvesting honey from frames that had contained brood. I have seen no degradation of honey from brood comb. Light nectar in - Light honey out. The bees do a good job of cleaning up the cells for honey storage.

Now to Debbie's chart.
It may not be obvious to everyone that the brood volume is shown as a percent of box filled with brood. By filled, we mean the space used for brood, and the space allocated for stores to support that brood volume. In our 9 frame brood chamber, that is typically 5 frames of brood, 2 frames of feed pollen, and the outside frames of capped honey. In our jargon, that's a full box of brood.

In the upper deep, the rounding of the expansion dome means there is typically a little less brood than stores. Although the brood at the top of the peak is almost to the top bar, the chart shows about a half-box of brood.

This thread is about wax making. Lots of variation in opinions on that subject. Often new wax is associated with field nectar abundance. (main flow) That is not what we see. In the undisturbed, established colony new wax DOES show up at "main flow." But there has been abundant field nectar available for weeks preceding that period.

In the swarm prep period, wax makers are generated to leave with the swarm. Establishment of the swarm in a new location does not get underway without comb for brood and stores. Wax making capability is critical.
Wax making capability is not critical for the parent colony. They can put it off til the resupply period. And do. Our bees are efficiency experts. Expend energy where its needed. They have had a few million years to select for the most efficient way to do it.

Note that, in my area, the spring flow is from early Feb to early June. Plenty of nectar out there for that period. In the middle of that time is the point of decision to swarm or not. Those that have met the requirements proceed to issue of the swarm. Those that have not met the needs of the swarm and survival of the parent cancel swarm ambition.
Both the swarmer and the non swarmer must prepare for resupply of the existing colony.
In the next two weeks, generate wax makers, nectar driers, and support bees to store honey efficiently. Suddenly, "main flow." (With no change in field nectar)

In earlier writings, we referred to the period between reproductive cut off and main flow as the 'lull." That was based on the observation that the established colony does not store nectar overhead during the period of personnel adjustment. (Just before main flow) On this chart we are calling it "Prepare to store honey"

Walt


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