# Diagnosing Parisitic Mite Syndrome



## dickm (May 19, 2002)

Hey Mike,
A great post. It explains, in pictures, how PMS can mimic many other things. Sure looks like AFB doesn't it? I'd like to copy this to my clubs newsletter if you aren't getting ready to publish it. I looked hard at the yellow looking larvae in the pix and they remind me of EFB. Any chance it could be a companion?

Dick Marron


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## NW IN Beekeeper (Jun 29, 2005)

*I like the pollen stores....*

I have to take this back to what I see in my own hives, from what I see in dianostic pics like MP above, and what I read from colleges and researchers. 

Lack of brood doesn't have to reflect exclusively on bad queens or lack of a flow. When the colony has a disease situation, its not uncommon to see a brood production slow down or even cease. I think this is an act of preservation, to avoid spreading disease. And when this is combined with continued foraging (the excess pollen stores) it makes some sense that the bees are bringing in nutrition via pollen (what else improves your immune system better?). So when the nutrition improves and the brood emerges healthier, then the colony should come around. This is a catch-22 with just how late in the season it might be however. Too late, there will not be enough time for enought brood cycles for this to be effective in turning the hive around. This also presumes that general health isn't already so far south that it is merely spiralling into collapse. 

I guess my questions become (and I know this isn't an answer I expect from the crowd) but when does the disease become recognized by the bees and start to shut down brood rearing, and just how likely is recovery (and that may depend on a lot of our uncontrolable factors like nectar/pollen flows, weather, and trace genetics). I have also read that many viruses are highly contigeous, that can make one wonder just how long they can continue to be passed around a hive. And what makes some totally collapse and others linger and just serve as a cess pool for disease. 

It is all a very interesting balancing act. 

Thanks for the pictures, I've been a bit tired of hearing from others "My dead hives starved to death because the bees tongues were out". 

-Jeff


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

dickm said:


> Hey Mike,
> A great post. It explains, in pictures, how PMS can mimic many other things. Sure looks like AFB doesn't it? I'd like to copy this to my clubs newsletter if you aren't getting ready to publish it. I looked hard at the yellow looking larvae in the pix and they remind me of EFB. Any chance it could be a companion?
> 
> Dick Marron


It does...if you're not quite sure what you're looking at. But, digging in a little deeper you see dead ADULT bees, and none that died while young pupae. Yes, there is uncapped worker brood, but inside are older pupae/almost adults, which wouldn't be the case with AFB. I saw one this summer that sure looked like AFB. Didn't rope. Left it for a month. Same symptoms, and didn't spread within the colony..just a few cells on a couple frames. Burned it anyway. 

Yeah, you can use it.

I looked for the "yellow looking larvae." Couldn't find any. Sure you're not looking at pollen?


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## cdanderson (May 26, 2007)

Thank you.. I really enjoyed this informative post


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

"Died in the process of hatching. These are the bees you want to look at for PMS symptoms. If healthy, they should have fully formed wings and abdomens at least as long as their wings. Some bees you remove from their cells will look healthy...fully formed wings, and full sized abdomens...."

michael, thanks for this thread. in reading what i quoted above, i have a couple of questions. when "looking for bees dying in the process of hatching with their tongues out"...are you saying that this itself is a symptom of pms, or look at these bees for unformed wings, and abdomens?

if the latter, what are the other causes of dead emerging bees with their tongues out? are there other clues to look for to determine other causes?

thanks,

deknow


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

deknow said:


> michael, thanks for this thread. in reading what i quoted above, i have a couple of questions. when "looking for bees dying in the process of hatching with their tongues out"...are you saying that this itself is a symptom of pms, or look at these bees for unformed wings, and abdomens?
> deknow


No, not specifically a symptom. It's just that these bees are old enough to have fully formed wings. So, pulling them will show DWV if it's there.

I guess the actual cause of death of these hatching bees with their tongues out could be starvation. Maybe they're begging for a meal as they struggle to hatch.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

In a nutshell, about all the comments are correct. PMS may include dead larvae, dead adults, deteriorating mushy bees and larvae mimicking AFB, deformed wings, etc. The mite overload can cause viral outbreaks, a lack of organization, and a complete shutdown of normal bee activity. So bees begging for food may not get fed, larvae may not get fed enough to even withstand normal mite load, a good queen will show patterns effected by the queen not having good clean cells to lay in, AFB that was in check now gets a foothold, daily chores such as housecleaning and rearing brood gets disrupted, etc. So yes, you will see about everything thrown in. 

I have taken hives or nucs such as this (not dead) and swapped location with a stronger hive. The infusion of the work force will normally straighten out such a hive as these. Yeah, it may be a waste of resources, but it works just the same. And if it does work, get rid of the queen and change the genetics. You should constantly be replacing the weak links in your operation.

Great post and pictures!


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## tony350i (Jul 29, 2005)

hi Michael Palmer,

what cell size are the frames that they collapsed on.

Regards tony


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Just regular ole cells.


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

Nice job Mike.

The bees dying half out of their cells with their tongues sticking out is certainly due to starvation which points to a lack of nurse bees at the crucial time of emergence. Before the hive reaches the stage shown in your photographs, bee population is already way off and the downward spiral has begun.


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