# Powdered sugar treatments on a Warre



## ubernerd (Jul 17, 2012)

As my first season winds to a close, I'm fully engaged in the battle with Varroa. First my count was 3 per 24 hrs. I was happy. Then it crept to 8, then 10. I was still OK. Then, 20 and on to 40. Ouch! Exponential growth? Check. I thought I was going to make it the first year without having to battle the pest. Alas, no.

I started doing PS treatments when my count was about 20 in 24 hrs, but it didn't seem effective. Following the recommendations of thewarrestore.com, I tried dusting from the top bars of my top box. (The bees have filled 3 boxes, and have a 4th empty underneath that I'm about to remove for winter.) It seemed like the powdered sugar never really "went" anywhere. I didn't see a lot of sugary coated bees in the brood box (I have windows), and not much came out through the SBB onto my counting grid. The mite count kept climbing.

though I aspire to the standards Warre set and want to keep my hibe in the most "organic" way I can, I got desperate and actually opened the hive, pulling each box off so I could treat each set iof top bars individually. (Warre is rolling in his grave, I'm sure. ) I seemed to get more PS on the counting board, but mite counts stayed high, and even climbed up to around 40 per 24 hours.

I got super desperate and did a thyme oil/mineral oil treatment (as recommended by thewarrestore.com) after tearing the hive open and dusting with PS the third time. It seems the mite count is staying high (40 in 24 hrs, 3 days after treatment, 30+ 4 days after treatment).

*So, after all that, the questions*: How may of you have had success with PS treatments? If you have, have you applied all of the PS from the top bars of the top box, or do you open your hive to treat? How many of you have found PS to be ineffective in your Warres?

Finally, the BIG question: What to do going into winter? Do PS for a couple more weeks (I've done 3 weeks now.)? Repeat thyme oil treatment? Let the bees sort it out over winter, keep my fingers crossed and plan to buy a package of VSH bees this spring if things don't go well? Suck it up and admit my bees are not up to battling Varroa and get some MAQS? Moral support and opinons, please...


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## chaindrivecharlie (Apr 6, 2008)

Never done PS treatments, but seen an old boy in Germany do it. He turns His boxs upside down and dusts them. A friend of mine in Taiwan does this.
A couple of other things I found, on varroa control.
VARROA MITES: 
Put 5-8 drops of Thyme oil in 16 ounces of mineral oil, shake it up and squirt it on a paper towel making a double SS. Then put it in the hive on top of the frames up till 3 weeks before the honey flow and anytime after the honey flow. 

Mix 1 Tablespoon of garlic powder with 1 cup of water in a blender on low speed for 2-3 minutes. Add the cup of blended mixture to a gallon of sugar water, mix by shaking, and feed it to the bees in early spring up till 3 weeks before the honey flow. Can be used again in the fall after the honey flow. 
He lives in a tropical rain forest, wet but not as cool as Your weather. And some say Lavender works, but have not read any on it. Good luck and keep us posted on your success.


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## Zonker (Mar 10, 2010)

If we are letting the bees build their own comb and the mites prefer drone cells, are the mites as big a problem in top bar style hives (including the warree) as in the normal hives? I know the Germans deliberately add then remove frames of drone cells as part of their control.

The Germans are working in a careful scientific way to produce bees that resist the mites. I wish there was some way to get a package from there.


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## ubernerd (Jul 17, 2012)

Zonker said:


> If we are letting the bees build their own comb and the mites prefer drone cells, are the mites as big a problem in top bar style hives (including the warree) as in the normal hives? I know the Germans deliberately add then remove frames of drone cells as part of their control.
> 
> The Germans are working in a careful scientific way to produce bees that resist the mites. I wish there was some way to get a package from there.


I can't speak in general terms, but they are sure a problem for me right now! I'm planning a formic acid treatment this weekend to see if I can knock 'em down. My last count was 90 in 24 hours. OUCH!

There are some US suppliers of treatment free (mite resistant) queens in the US. There's a thread about that here or on Beemaster. I'm hoping to score a new queen from one of them next spring to see if that helps. Now, I just want my bees to make it through the winter so I don't have to start with a new package in April again.

So, if anyone has done "homebrew" liquid formic acid treatments on their bees in a Warre and want's to offer tips, I'm all ears!  I'm hoping I can correctly "scale" the amount of acid to use from the langstroth recommendations to a Warre sized hive. Crossing my fingers...


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## DocBB (Aug 26, 2010)

Here the method with sugar only on Lang' 

may I suggest to you the "Heroïque Method" according to Abbé Warré ?
it removes 90% of the mites if you tranfer the bees in a new clean hive
and it si Highly easier using the *Daniel's creel*


*Pioneering and Powered Sugar*
(but keeping the infested combs unlike Daniel) a .PDF from University of Nebraska - Lincoln


  click for a greater view


so let the bees go into the creel , drop 225 g PS on the girls, leave them there for 20 minutes and then re-drop them into the hive : you're quit of 70% of the mites 
it's better to have a solid creel floor to avoid spilling the sugar among the grass and feed the ants



> A strategy for using powdered sugar to reduce varroa populations in honey bee colonies
> Nicholas P. Aliano University of Nebraska - Lincoln, [email protected]
> Marion D. Ellis University of Nebraska - Lincoln, [email protected]


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## beeman2009 (Aug 23, 2012)

Might try oxalic acid, vaporizer, good kill ratio, occurs naturally in the hive as well as many foods we eat every day. Can do it any time of the year. Never tried it on a Warre', but I will this year if needed. Google Oxalic Acid Vaporizers to find a source.

http://www.members.shaw.ca/orioleln/index.html
These folks have the best product for the price unless you are equipped to make your own. Just my $0.02 worth.


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