# To spilt or to graft?



## Michael H. (Oct 28, 2015)

Hello all! Long time reader but first time poster. 

I'm looking for more info on increasing the number of hives that I have. I currently have four that were swarms and cut outs collected two years ago but this year I would like to raise my own. After doing lots of reading and even making a frame for grafting, I was wondering if I was over-thinking things.

What would be the advantage of grafting over doing splits? I'm not looking to sell my new queens, just increase the number of hives.

Would an easier option be to take an old queen out of one of my more productive hives and place her with a frame of brood, a frame of pollen, a frame of honey and lots of bees in a nuc box and let the established hive replace the now missing queen?

Many thanks for your input!

Michael H.


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

The main advantage is not losing a month of prime nectar flow in the Springtime.

Depending on timing of the bloom, colony strength, stored honey and pollen in the hives, I decide which hives I buy mated queens for and which hives will produce queens for my increaser nucleus colonies, re-queening production colonies, and if there are extras, for sale. 

Splitting commits a great number of bees and comb to a queenless state for at least 16 days, a week before the new queen is mated, and a few more days to a week before she begins laying eggs. Another week or two before she's laying like a machine gun, and your colony is still not yet back on track - the adult bee population is down.

We order queens from Hawaii, and replace these later with our own queens, or with "improvement stock" queens from breeders whose bees display desireable traits. Other breeders around the continental 48 have queens available later in the year than Hawaii, but they may have the traits we are looking for.

Out West, we worry about the dry years, and Spring time nectar flow is precious, SO WE REALLY DON'T WANT TO MISS OUT. Splitting is easy, that is why people do it, *but introducing mated queens is FAR BETTER!!!* 

Raising your own queens is economical, and allows you some control over the traits, gradual stock improvement can be achieved. Learning to time this is the trick. You can also learn to make overwintered nucleus colonies to combine with your colonies needing re-queening the following Spring.

I'd suggest to go ahead and order some good mated queens, build some Laidlaw queen introduction cages, and make sure all your hives and nuc's have feeders.

To start making queens, start by making your nuc' boxes. Don't worry about baby nuc's - 5-framers will do. 

Your queens can be made entirely in the queenless state (starter/finisher) on a small scale, and repeat the process often throughout the season. Make a vented 6-frame nucleus box with a feeder rim (1/2" mesh for pollen patty feed, a hole for a mason jar feeder) and a top that accommodates this feeder rim. Read up on David LaFerney's posts about Joseph Clemens' system of rearing queens. I found 4 or 5 posts and printed them and laminated them. Then I went out and made 40 nuc's and a vented 6-frame nuc' for a smaller-scale operation than I had been trying. 

The learning curve is steep, so expect some failures at first. Keep posting and asking questions as they arise on Beesource. Sooner or later, you'll have lots of bees and need a honey room.


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## Kamon A. Reynolds (Apr 15, 2012)

kilocharlie said:


> The main advantage is not losing a month of prime nectar flow in the Springtime.
> 
> Depending on timing of the bloom, colony strength, stored honey and pollen in the hives, I decide which hives I buy mated queens for and which hives will produce queens for my increaser nucleus colonies, re-queening production colonies, and if there are extras, for sale.
> 
> ...


Said well. 

Grafting queens is the way to go for sure. Takes a little practice, but it is not hard. Once you master it you will be entering into a whole new realm of beekeeping possibilities.


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## Michael H. (Oct 28, 2015)

Thanks for the answers. I'm not looking at buying in any queens. I'd rather try and raise my own. I've already read and re-read David LaFerney's excellent posts about queen rearing but I was just wondering whether a split would be better for my situation rather than learning how to graft.

But then again, I've made up the frame for the queen cups, I already have a 6 frame nuc that I made last year and I'd love to learn how to do it... so ''pourquoi pas''?

I'll let you know how I get on in the spring!


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Contact Richard in Brittany. He's doing a great job of queen rearing by grafting and wintering nucleus colonies. He's building a nice apiary....


http://beesinbrittany.blogspot.com


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

With only four colonies, I'd try to get at least 2 mated queens as early as possible and "split" the two weakest colonies, re-queening the queenless "splits". Now you'll have 6 colonies, in a month of good flow that is enough from which to try grafting, Cut Cell (read Oldtimer's thread above in the "sticky" section, "Raising Queens without Grafting"), Miller's method, a Jenter box, or what ever system you are comfortable with. Watch the two strongest ones for swarming! (you could reverse this - "split" and introduce the mated queens to the strongest two colonies if they are near swarming already.)

To start out, one of the methods other than grafting will be more likely to give you excellent results. Methods not transferring the larva out of it's original cell and into an artificial queen cell cup are likely to give you better queens.

As you get to 12 to 16 colonies, you'll likely have enough resources to make a second run. You can try your hand at grafting and figure it will take a few tries to get right. Once you have it down, you'll probably like it - it's quick and easy, just not the first few times around.


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## NSBee (Dec 20, 2014)

here is a youtube lecture on OTS queen rearing I have no experience with this method however i plan to try it this spring if my bees survive the winter 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIYz65Vquxg&list=PL9qYO7ii-6ILGhaETg-eRcX6RPIROfYWX&index=108

I think you could combine this method of queen rearing and michael palmers philosophy of nucs as brood factories quite well .


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Michael H. said:


> What would be the advantage of grafting over doing splits? I'm not looking to sell my new queens, just increase the number of hives.
> 
> Michael H.


How many hives you want to increase depends on the bee resources available to allow you to make them.
With only 4 hives and not 40 hives, you are a bit limited on bee resources but it can be done. 
The split versus a graft is that on a split will allow you to make some queen cells at the bee's disposal. The cells they make is limited in
quantity in my experience so far. Where as on a graft it is at
the beekeeper's control. On a graft you can make as many queen cells as you like often up to 45 cells at a time in a really strong cell builder
hive. The number of cells made is larger in quantity using this method.
So given the hive resources you have now it is better to make a split depending on how many hives you want to have. But if you are willing to
convert all of your hives into the nuc hives then you can do a graft and then distribute the hive resources to accommodate the number of queen cells 
you want to make. Look at the available bee resource you have now to see what you can do with them either a graft or a split.


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## rookie2531 (Jul 28, 2014)

The way I did it was, took queen out and capped brood and made a nuc with her. Cut out e-cells and made a few splits. Then I was left with strong builder. Grafted from the queen I liked and off I went. I grafted, and made walk aways. Awesome experience. I will do much the same next spring. When I started talking about rearing last winter, there was a few that said, queens made from grafting metheds were superior to emergency queens. The jury is still out on that. I have great laying queens from e-cells and vice versa. But I must say, one swarm cell queen stands out from the rest. Maybe my next years breeder?


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

rookie2531 said:


> I have great laying queens from e-cells and vice versa. But I must say, one swarm cell queen stands out from the rest.


How big are your cells and queens?
Those queens I will keep maybe for breeders when the genetic is good after evaluation for a few seasons.
I like the fat chubby queens.

Mine are almost finger size length:


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## rookie2531 (Jul 28, 2014)

beepro said:


> How big are your cells and queens?
> Those queens I will keep maybe for breeders when the genetic is good after evaluation for a few seasons.
> I like the fat chubby queens.
> 
> Mine are almost finger size length:


She is on the larger size and from a swarm cell to boot, but she is still in question.(notice ?) I don't have seasons to choose from yet. I have to choose from what I have in the period from which I started, 2014. But I look at brood patterns, buildup, and whether or not she is skiddish during inspections. I have some that walk around and hide and some that pay no attention. I like the fact that she is not distracted easily, but focused on buildup. As my apiary grows, I'm sure I will/can get more picky, but those are the important things to me now.

But as for OP question, grafting gives you easier relocation of your queens and just walk away splits, you must be careful about cutting them out and a lot of times, they are on the wire of the foundation and cannot be moved easily.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

One of the main points of grafting is to get the most number of queens for the least impact on the bees and the least resources. A walk away split has at least as much impact as setting up a starter/finisher and you only end up with one queen. You could have ended up with 30...


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## rookie2531 (Jul 28, 2014)

Michael Bush said:


> One of the main points of grafting is to get the most number of queens for the least impact on the bees and the least resources. A walk away split has at least as much impact as setting up a starter/finisher and you only end up with one queen. You could have ended up with 30...


Most end with one queen, unless you cut them out and put each one in a mating nuc. But, you do get more by grafting of course, I'm sure that is the main point.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Most end with one queen, unless you cut them out and put each one in a mating nuc. 

Yes, you COULD get more if you cut the cells out 10 days after the split and put them in mating nucs.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

I usually made up the mating nucs once the cells have been capped.
This way I can further assess the worker bees situation because
some will fly back to the parent hive. Once the cells are capped 
the larvae are still small enough to be moved into the mating nuc hive.
And in the summer time some cells will hatch early so using this method
will prevent the virgin from tearing out the other cells unless you have
a way to prevent that.


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