# Swarm trap success rate of others please.



## challenger (May 27, 2009)

Maybe I'm asking for a pole of some sort but Im really just trying to gather information as follows:
Sq ' of your most used trap. 
General height and placement (ex: facing South, along wood line, 6' off the ground) 
Bait used (ex: LG, old comb, no bait) 
Size and type of entrance to the bait hive. 
Finally and most important, average success rate (ex: 20%, 50%, 110%) last one is a poke at any cliche that uses a percentage above 100.
Thanks


----------



## troyheckman (Jan 27, 2015)

I know that there is a preferred hole size, entrance direction, height, and bait for catching honeybees but I think it is sometimes overstated. I had 4 traps out last year and was able to catch 5 swarms from them. I had entrance holes ranging from 1-1.5 inch, facing E/S/W, with heights ranging from 6-20 feet from ground. But my stats are as follows:

Trap 1: 10 frame deep with 5 frames of right cell and 5 frames foundationless, facing east 6 feet tall attached to large oak surrounded by smaller trees, baited with LGO, 1 inch hole, caught 2 swarms (one late spring, one late summer)

Trap 2: 10 frame deep with 5 frames of right cell and 5 frames foundationless, facing west 20 feet tall, baited with LGO, 1.5 inch, caught 1 swarm

Trap 3: 10 frame deep with 5 frames of right cell and 5 frames foundationless, facing south 8 feet tall, baited with LGO, 1.25 inch hole, caught no swarms (surrounded in corn fields so not an ideal place for bees)

Trap 4: 10 frame deep with 5 frames of right cell and 5 frames foundationless, facing east 10 feet tall, baited with LGO, 1.25 inch hole, caught 2 swarms (both swarms were caught within 2 days so I suspect the second was an afterswarm)


----------



## Ferg (Aug 7, 2015)

I hope lots of folks chime in on this, I am trying, have 6 traps out, all 5 frame nucs, except one is a warre' hive trap. LGO and facing S to SE. From 6' to 10' high.


----------



## BuckeyeBeek (Apr 16, 2013)

Fishing for bees is a lot of fun and they're the best bees in my bee yard. Last year I put out out 5 traps in Mid April and caught 2 swarms, 1 mid and 1 late May. As high as I can reach without getting on a ladder I drive a spike into the tree to hang my traps. These are just built from whatever scrap materials I have laying around and based on a 30 liter (or little larger) design I found on the web. I bait them with a frame of old dark comb and a frame of partial honey left over from last year, fill in the rest w empty frames. 6 drops of lemongrass oil inside the trap, a few drops right at the entrance. This year I'm putting out at least 10 traps. 

Check out the vids...
https://youtu.be/rarIzlNisws
https://youtu.be/gE0bCJAbPy4


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

It is sort of like asking what the success rate for fishing is... that depends... But scattering them around the countryside (about a 100 mile radius) I've gotten success about 20% of the time. But putting more in a successful spot may get up to 200% or more success... meaning multiple catches in the same spot...


----------



## Eikel (Mar 12, 2014)

Lots of variable, Seeley points out a number of points that help your odds but only a toaster comes with a guarantee. I have one string of 3 bait hives about 100' apart with very similar characteristics; one location out performs all the others hands down year to year with consistent and multiple successes. Two years ago it had caught a swarm and I removed the hive, a day later I was installing another box and a swarm landed about 18" behind my head. Why that location is so productive; I really, really wish I could figure it out.


----------



## gone2seed (Sep 18, 2011)

Michael Bush said:


> But putting more in a successful spot may get up to 200% or more success... meaning multiple catches in the same spot...


That's the best "secret" in this thread.


----------



## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

Once word gets out that you're good at catching bee swarms, swarms have a way of finding you. Keep the phone charged up and turned on.


----------



## challenger (May 27, 2009)

Thanks for the replies. I have set out 20 traps not including the five or so I keep at my yard. I've always put out a few and I too have had some that catch multiple swarms and others that are total duds. 
This year is the first year I am using old brood comb. In the past I have used LGO. 
I read a study that suggested the bees are most attracted to a 10 liter cavity. A 30 liter cavity is huge! Three deeps !
I made a bunch of stands that I screw to trees and sit the hive bodies on. When I get a swarm I remove it asap. I don't wait unless I have to. I've had a couple take up residency only to move out before I got them the next day.
Thanks for the replies - I am glad to hear most feel there isn't a huge amount of science in attracting swarms and basically it is a matter of the trap being in the right place.


----------



## IAmTheWaterbug (Jun 4, 2014)

Michael Bush said:


> It is sort of like asking what the success rate for fishing is... that depends... But scattering them around the countryside (about a 100 mile radius) I've gotten success about 20% of the time. But putting more in a successful spot may get up to 200% or more success... meaning multiple catches in the same spot...


I'm 1 for 1! So that's 100%, with a standard deviation of ∞.

But my sample is biased because I put the bait hive in a location that was previously colonized twice, so it was sorta like cheating.

If I put the trap back where I just caught one I could get myself up over 100%.


----------



## IAmTheWaterbug (Jun 4, 2014)

challenger said:


> I read a study that suggested the bees are most attracted to a 10 liter cavity. A 30 liter cavity is huge! Three deeps!


A 10 frame deep is just north of 40 liters.

Seeley's research says bees prefer something around 40 l.


----------



## BuckeyeBeek (Apr 16, 2013)

IAmTheWaterbug said:


> A 10 frame deep is just north of 40 liters.
> 
> Seeley's research says bees prefer something around 40 l.


That sounds right. My traps are not all exactly the same dimensions except they're all 19 1/8 long to accommodate the length of a frame (for what it's worth I'm using all medium frames). The traps in the vids are 15-16" tall and 6-8" wide. The cubic inches on these is therefore around 2100-2700, the conversion to liters is 35-45L.


----------



## IAmTheWaterbug (Jun 4, 2014)

challenger said:


> I read a study that suggested the bees are most attracted to a 10 liter cavity. A 30 liter cavity is huge! Three deeps !


Ah, I'm thinking that someone, somewhere mixed gallons and liters. The ideal size (~40 liters) is very approximately 10 gallons, and 3 deeps is very approximately 30 gallons.


----------



## challenger (May 27, 2009)

IAmTheWaterbug said:


> A 10 frame deep is just north of 40 liters.
> 
> Seeley's research says bees prefer something around 40 l.


Correct - I was (am) mixed up.


----------



## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

When I ran traps, my success rate was about 25% or so. Now that I don't run traps, it's about 90%. I've been in the bee removal business long enough that I get all the swarm calls I can handle.


----------



## mcon672 (Mar 5, 2015)

Last year was our 1st year trapping. We put out 12, 10 deeps (the ones that caught swarms), one nuc (had scouts for months but no one ever moved in, maybe too small), and a fiber pot trap (better used as a garbage can). Out of the 12 traps we caught 13 swarms. 1 spot produced 4, some 2 swarms and some nothing. Swarm commander, and propolis rubbed on the inside of the boxes. We just started setting them back up yesterday. This year each one gets a small piece of very old, black brood comb. Only using deeps this year. Frames with starter strip in them. Very rarely ever higher than 6 feet. Entrance usually southish but which ever way it wants to point is ok too. 1" entrance hole with a metal disc entry so they are easy to move. I like to put them along the edge of the woods if possible and not deep on but I don't know if that's helpful or not. We hang them in trees that have a low fork. Screw a 2x4 at the right height, level then put the trap on that 2x4 and level the trap. Then push the second 2x4 up to the trap and screw it into the other side of the fork making the trap perfectly level in all directions. Quick and easy.


----------



## challenger (May 27, 2009)

mcon672 - that is a great record I'd say.
I have mine set up almost exactly like you do except I used 1-2 frames of old comb and frames that I have taken some nasty and/or broken comb out of hoping any swarm I get builds comb on the frames and not all over hanging from the inside top. We all know they often build comb at an amazing rate and this new comb is so delicate that trying to recover it without it being in a frame is difficult at best. I am using two 3/4 " holes not 1".
I have put 15 traps out in locations that I can easily spot from a main rd through our town and over a 5 mile stretch. The other 6 I can see by pulling into parking lots adjacent to some woods where I placed them. I don't go to the trouble of putting them in secret locations that I have to backpack to.

Needless to say getting swarm calls is the best. I too get many each year. "Many" is still not enough unfortunately. Given the fact I have all sorts of unused/empty/unoccupied/repurposed/dead out equipment I wish to take the opportunity to weed out the poorest looking boxes and relegate them to swarm traps. The effort is minimal (sometimes even easier than some swarm calls I have gotten), the bees are completely free and the current cost of bees, now $110.00 for a THREE POUND PACKAGE, makes trapping more attractive than ever.


----------



## mcon672 (Mar 5, 2015)

Plus it's just plain fun. At least the wife and I think so.


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Anywhere you have collected a swarm before is a great place for a bait hive.


----------



## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

I'm certainly no expert on this ... last year our single 8-frame deep swarm trap proved highly effective at attracting wax moths, as I made the mistake of putting some nasty old frames in it.

I thought the first response to this thread by troyheckman was highly informative ... the poster uses foundationless. Which makes me feel a lot better about setting the swarm trap up this year with two fairly fresh drawn frames (from a honey extraction) plus six foundationless frames.

My theory is that the drawn comb should smell homey, but doesn't have the brood residue the wax moths like, and the foundationless gives them something to keep them busy, as they should be primed to start drawing comb.

How many of you are using foundationless in their swarm traps, and how well does it work compared to drawn comb? 

How many who have used old comb have had wax moth problems with it?


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>How many of you are using foundationless in their swarm traps, and how well does it work compared to drawn comb? 

I usually do both. One old dark brood comb and several foundationless frames. It puts a natural limit on the wax moths...


----------



## challenger (May 27, 2009)

In my area the wax moths really don't get started full bore until the end of April unless they have a way to keep warm. I use BT on my comb anyway whenever I think to. I miss sometimes but so far all the frames in my many swarm traps have been sprayed with B T. I feel it works very well and the only time I've used it and still had comb loss was when I let it sit after mixing for several days and sprayed comb with it. After a couple of days of being mixed it loses its effectiveness so it's best to dump it and mix new.


----------

