# boxjoint.pdf



## Asia-Off-Grid (May 1, 2017)

A file, "boxjoint.pdf", seems to have been mentioned quite a bit, before, on this forum. However, it seems to have been deleted some years ago. 

Might anyone here still have a copy of it that they would be willing to share? 

Thanks,


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

Try this.....

http://www.beesource.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/boxjoint.pdf


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## Asia-Off-Grid (May 1, 2017)

Thank you, very, very much. At least newbies have an updated link, now, to visit.


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## Eikel (Mar 12, 2014)

Personal preference for easy set up, safe operation and accurate cuts is a sled.


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## Asia-Off-Grid (May 1, 2017)

Eikel said:


> Personal preference for easy set up, safe operation and accurate cuts is a sled.
> 
> View attachment 35699


I'm new to woodworking. But, isn't that for a table saw? 

I will have to use a router.


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## My-smokepole (Apr 14, 2008)

Yap. Find your self a table saw. Something that you can get at lease 3/4 of dado blades on it. You will thank me.


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## Eikel (Mar 12, 2014)

That one is but it can be adapted to work with a router table. Does your router table have "tracks" for a miter gauge? A couple of runners slip into the tracks and keep the sled stable and while it moves.


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## Aroc (May 18, 2016)

A table saw will work much quicker, easier, and safer.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Keep in mind that the OP is in _Cambodia_. 

Most likely, sourcing an affordable tablesaw that can handle a 3/4" dado is not just a matter of looking on the local Craigslist. 

And, _Asia-Off-Grid_ may also imply that he may not have commercial AC available in the 110 volt 15-20 amp range, or 10 amps 230 volt equivalent available.


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## Asia-Off-Grid (May 1, 2017)

My-smokepole said:


> Yap. Find your self a table saw. Something that you can get at lease 3/4 of dado blades on it. You will thank me.


They want $700 USD for a small table saw here. Junk.



Eikel said:


> That one is but it can be adapted to work with a router table. Does your router table have "tracks" for a miter gauge? A couple of runners slip into the tracks and keep the sled stable and while it moves.
> 
> View attachment 35701


No table just yet. Only recently purchased my air compressor and tools.



Aroc said:


> A table saw will work much quicker, easier, and safer.


True. I wish I had one.



Rader Sidetrack said:


> Keep in mind that the OP is in _Cambodia_.
> 
> Most likely, sourcing an affordable tablesaw that can handle a 3/4" dado is not just a matter of looking on the local Craigslist.
> 
> And, _Asia-Off-Grid_ may also imply that he may not have commercial AC available in the 110 volt 15-20 amp range, or 10 amps 230 volt equivalent available.


Spot on.
I do have the latter available, @50hz.


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## Asia-Off-Grid (May 1, 2017)

Oh, a while back, during a finger joint jig topic was active, someone came up with a link to purchase a write up originally in the August 2014 issue of Woodsmith Plans. Variable finger joints can be made by altering key sizes. Anyway, I purchased that, in hopes of building the jig for my needs here. Another reason I hope I can get by without a table saw.


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## Eikel (Mar 12, 2014)

The guys are absolutely correct, the table saw is your best option but "you ain't got what you ain't got." Feeding a 3/4 - 1" router bit through a 3/4 board takes a bit of force and time, doing it repetitively and precisely with a free hand router will require a gig and a guide bushing. If you can mount your router under a piece of plywood it will give you a basic router table and you can use a clamp on fence or cleat for a guide. Then you could use a sled to cut consistent "tails and pins," your initial set ups would be a bit of a pain but the sled would allow consistent accuracy.

There's also nothing wrong with using butt or shoulder joints until you're able to add to your shop. 

Sorry if we took you on a scenic tour down a dirt road.


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## Asia-Off-Grid (May 1, 2017)

Eikel said:


> There's also nothing wrong with using butt or shoulder joints until you're able to add to your shop.


I guess I am just concerned about the weight of the hive bodies, causing me to want the best possible joints on the boxes.




Eikel said:


> Sorry if we took you on a scenic tour down a dirt road.


No worries. In the west, we tend to take a lot of things for granted - Amazon overnight delivery, quality tools to work with (my air operated brad and staple guns were like $15 US, each) and stable, reliable electricity. We don't realize certain conveniences may not be available everywhere.

I appreciate all the advice, regardless.


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## Eikel (Mar 12, 2014)

I spent a little time in beautiful southeast Asia, it truly is an adjustment for the change in amenities the west takes for granted. 

There is a strength difference but butt and shoulder joints work well. If you wanted an extra little warm fuzzy you can make a jig that allows you to cut a couple of corner splines on each corner. Basically route a slot across the corner and glue in a piece of wood. The pic is also using the technique for decorative purposes but it gives you the idea. Search the web for corner spline.


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## Asia-Off-Grid (May 1, 2017)

Eikel said:


> I spent a little time in beautiful southeast Asia, it truly is an adjustment for the change in amenities the west takes for granted.
> 
> There is a strength difference but butt and shoulder joints work well. If you wanted an extra little warm fuzzy you can make a jig that allows you to cut a couple of corner splines on each corner. Basically route a slot across the corner and glue in a piece of wood. The pic is also using the technique for decorative purposes but it gives you the idea. Search the web for corner spline.
> 
> View attachment 35711


I did. And, thank you for the information. First time I have seen corner splines, or jigs to make them. I watched a dozen or so videos on making them.


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## Eikel (Mar 12, 2014)

You're more than welcome. Remember the strength in glue joints is maximized in the long grain to long grain, gluing the end grain minimal, minimal strength. The splines will give you the long grain contact and really prevent the boxes from racking. Let us know how things go.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

I made my warre hive with just putting the end of the board against the board and putting seven galvanized nails in them (each corner). I don't think they are going anywhere for many years. I had a lot of free nails and that was what warre said would be good enough and handling the boxes, I believe him. I only do the little bit extra now cause I am just using 18 gage brads. Brads don't hold much on a stait pull. I still am not using glue but then again, my oldest box is three/four years old. They still seem fine so far. I do have a stationary apary and don't move hives to almonds or follow flows though.
Cheers
gww

Ps I am not saying the above is the best way. For me it was just so much easier and was just good enough. I also don't paint but I do make my own boards and so it is just where you want to put the most time to get someting that will work well enough, You have to think for what fits your situation. Like me, free nails made me build differrent then I did when using brads. Sorta free lumber makes me slop in other places.


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## Eikel (Mar 12, 2014)

You can effectively assemble boards using butt or shoulder joints but you'll need to use mechanical fasteners, glue on end grain doesn't hold. Some of the epoxy's or more exotic glues can bridge some of the end grain problems but you're looking at extra bucks and I don't think much reliability beyond short term. The physics of the issue lies in woods grain structure, i.e. similar to a bunch of soda straws; the ends will pull liquids away from the joint via capillary action and they also have very little relative surface area. That's why you don't see board successfully jointed/glued end to end without some form of long grain intervention. e.g dowels, biscuits, splines, etc. Gluing long grain edge to edge (edge not end) will give you a bond that will usually break elsewhere on the board but not the glue joint itself.


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## Gazelle (May 17, 2015)

Rabbits joints all day.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Don't worry about the weight. As long as the boxes are aligned and the wood is thick enough they will all hold.
I use dry wall screws to assembled the deep LP composite particle boxes here. And use aluminum metal L-shape strips to
line the 4 butt joint corners. No issue so far for almost 4 seasons of using them. Make it square and make it stable!


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