# Syrup Storage and transfer



## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Kolbeez said:


> Will the tote get too cold in the garage for syrup to flow into cans?


It appears unlikely that 1 to 1 syrup would not flow in your spring/summer/fall temperatures. Here is a average temperature chart for Davis, CA (Yolo County, but south of you):
http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/95616
The temperature of 200 gallons of syrup in a tote in a garage is not going to vary much over the course of a day, so it should maintain somewhere between the high and low temps on the chart. Plug in your zipcode to get a more localized temperature chart.


----------



## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

We used a tote to fill feeder pails when it was cooler, 60 deg F? HFCS came out fine, but the tote came with a 1 1/2 valve. You will have to find a way to raise the tote up high enough to get the pail under the valve. We set it on a short stack of pallets, and bought a PVC elbow for the valve. 

Crazy Roland


----------



## Kolbeez (Apr 1, 2012)

Is the tote the best, most efficient, method for can feeding at this scale? 100 this year and likely more the next.


----------



## JCA Beeswax Processing (Feb 18, 2012)

I use a 2" pump with a tote and inside feeders. Efficiency will go up with a pump of some type instead of gravity. I have had syrup separate and not pump so well. Depends on what syrup you are using. A used honey pump can be configured for syrup and then used for extracting later. Cam-lock fittings are a bit expensive but pay in the long run.


----------



## robherc (Mar 17, 2012)

Kolbeez said:


> Is the tote the best, most efficient, method for can feeding at this scale? 100 this year and likely more the next.


I don't have any experience with beekeeping on your scale (at least not yet), but I know the steel 55gal drums seal up nicely for storage, and it's VERY easy to get pumps that'll handle thick liquids for them (commonly used for transferring heavy-weight oils). It's prob. what I'll try first once I get enough hives to have any need for that volume of syrup.

-Hope it helps
Rob


----------



## Kolbeez (Apr 1, 2012)

I'd like to learn more about the pump you're referring to. What is it and where can I find one. Thanks for the good idea


----------



## robherc (Mar 17, 2012)

I've used rotary pumps on 55gal drums for transferring fuel when I worked in construction; and I've used rotary, lever & "plunge-type" hand-operated pumps to move JP8 (diesel) and various weights of oils while I was in the military. Here are links to a few pumps (of vastly varying prices) I found on a Google search, that might work for moving quantities of syrup:
--Rotary hand pump
--"Zee-Line" *pneumatic* pump...it's PRICEY, but for really large volume it might be convenient enough to pay for itself
--Hand lever pump (old-school well-pump style)
--List of 55gal drum pumps on Uline.com; the metal "plunge-type" piston pump looks fairly promising
--lubestore.com pumps page, I saw at least 5-10 models that were rated for thicker fluids in there
--Northern Tool Company barrel+hand pumps page (they have a MUCH less expensive pneumatic listed in there)


Hope this helps,
Rob


----------



## Kolbeez (Apr 1, 2012)

Thanks so much for the suggestions. I'm wondering if the pumps for thick fluid would gum up with sticky syrup. I think I'll have to just have to try one out. I even found this air operated pump. http://www.harborfreight.com/12-gpm-air-operated-barrel-pump-93755.html

Reasonable price to see how it works.


----------



## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Gravity never fails. If you need to fill feeder cans, and can raise a tote to get the can under, a tote beats a barrel hands down. 

Crazy Roland


----------



## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Roland is right on. If you are not taking that tote to the bee yard and filling feeders on site just put your tote up on a solid stand and neck down your tote spout to the size for filling your cans. Just don't take your hand of the ball valve that opens the tote. Food grade totes are not free but you should be able to find one alot cheaper than a good pump. Generally gear pumps are used for heavy syrups that are food grade and they typically run 700 - 2200 bucks depending on what you want.


----------



## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

If gravity doesn't work out for you, like trouble lifting a full tote that high, consider a trash pump.... it's what I use... HF usually carries plenty of them.


----------



## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Herb have you ever used a trash pump for pumping syrup? I have not but its my understanding it only pumps water. 

Sean what kind of syrup will you use? Will you be making your own or will you buy HFCS?


----------



## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

This is what I use to pump HFCS. 

http://www.harborfreight.com/3-full-trash-pump-with-212cc-gas-engine-68370.html


----------



## robherc (Mar 17, 2012)

3" intake, 212cc engine, how many tonnes of syrup are you pumping every day?!?
(How many hives does it take to "need" that kind of equipment? 5K, 9K, more?)


----------



## Kolbeez (Apr 1, 2012)

BMAC said:


> Sean what kind of syrup will you use? Will you be making your own or will you buy HFCS?


I buy syrup from Mann Lake, Pro Sweet (% HFCS). I think for the cost and the # of hives (100), we could borrow a friend's forklift and set it off the ground in the garage the few times per year that we'll need to fill up. Thanks for all the suggestions. Big help.


----------



## hystad (Jan 14, 2011)

http://sacramento.craigslist.org/for/2948317036.html

$125 for a tote


----------



## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

robherc said:


> 3" intake, 212cc engine, how many tonnes of syrup are you pumping every day?!?
> (How many hives does it take to "need" that kind of equipment? 5K, 9K, more?)


Actually I have a 2" port... which comes in very handy when moving syrup into a tote, probably about 15 min to fill it up. When putting syrup in internal feeders the port is stepped down with fittings to a typical garden hose size.

How many hives to justify such a setup... well we run about 320... how else would you feed 320?


----------



## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

Kolbeez said:


> I, we could borrow a friend's forklift and set it off the ground in the garage the few times per year that we'll need to fill up. Thanks for all the suggestions. Big help.


A 275 GAL Tote of HFCS weighs 3660 lbs or there abouts. Take a pretty big lift to set it down from very high.....


----------



## Tazcan (Mar 25, 2012)

We just got our first bees and the bee keeper had a 50 gallon drum with a spout at the bottom for freeding his hives. pretty cool


----------



## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

hpm08161947 said:


> well we run about 320... how else would you feed 320?


I had no idea a trash pump would move HFCS. I use an old woodsmen honey pump hooked up to a 3hp gas engine with heavier than garden hose and gas pump style handle valve. That moves syrup pretty fast into my hives. I think it cost me 300 bucks to piece it all together and I have 75 feet of good quality hose and the gas handle. 

I dont think I would use garden hose. They contain extremely high amounts of lead.

I also see a guy with a hand pump tonight. 1.5 inch throat on it and it pumps 9.4 gallons per minute and its food grade. I thought wow now thats not a bad idea either. Its of course a diaphram style pump.


----------



## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

The HFCS around here comes in a tote, no need to purchase one , and it has a cheapo valve on the bottom already.

Crazy Roland


----------



## robherc (Mar 17, 2012)

hpm08161947 said:


> How many hives to justify such a setup... well we run about 320... how else would you feed 320?


OK, I was thinking you were needing that sized pump just for pumping into xfer containers; didn't know you were filling the tote with it too...
As far as feeding 320, I kinda planned on using a welded-steel tank in the back of a pickup, with one of the crank-style cast iron pumps & a flex-hose that'll fit into the entrance I'm already integrating into the tops of my frame feeders (although I'm still WAY too small to need any of the other equip. yet; I still pour syrup out of a 1gal. bottle whenever I need to feed right now)... Pull truck up next to hive; remove lid; fit end of hose into hole in feeder; crank pump 4-5x; replace lid & move to next hive. 

Like I said, haven't needed to do it on that scale yet, but that's what I've been envisioning doing if/when I _do_ get to that point.


----------



## Skinner Apiaries (Sep 1, 2009)

you'll find trash pumps are good in summer and with light syrup, but we have issues in winter, its slow, and can tend to whip it up a bit. A gear pump will move heavy syrups fast fast fast. But they arent really necessary. A pump and a second tote for the truck to pick up syrup with and transfer to a (or a series of) tote(s) on the ground (or elevated) is a poor man's tank farm. drums are OK, but messier than totes.


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

>>Gravity never fails

I use a couple totes to feed 700


----------



## JCA Beeswax Processing (Feb 18, 2012)

Sorry-been busy. I use a 2" trash pump to move syrup, mix sugar, and fire suppression. I do have the ability to move totes but it will also pump out of a drum. The key is to not leave the pump full when you are done. I run a 1" hose and have fed as many as 250 in 3 hours. Use a 2" suction and discharge and you can blend syrup in a second tote. Neck down for garden hose and have portable water supply for wetting down beeyards or what ever. When feeding, I run pump at idle and can deadhead the hose if needed due to the nature of the pump. Hope this helps.


----------



## Broke-T (Jul 9, 2008)

We took a used 150 gal propane tank and removed fill valve and replaced with 1 1/2 ball valve for filling. then put a quick connect and pressure gauge in another top opening. Hooked a garden hose to drain in bottom with a gas pump handle on other end. Put in 100 gal of syrup and pressurize to 50 PSI. It will fill inside feeder in about 5 seconds. Plus no motor noise.

Johnny


----------



## robherc (Mar 17, 2012)

good idea, but how long does it take to pressurize 50gal airspace to 50psi? and do you have a filter on the air line to remove the oil from the compressed air?


----------



## Karl Parker (Mar 23, 2012)

I admittedly have never used one to move syrup-but I use an electric barrel pump to transfer very viscous (concentrated salt brine) fluids all the time at the water plant I work at. As long as you flush the
pump with water after you've finished transferring the syrup, a good quality pump will last for years.


----------



## Broke-T (Jul 9, 2008)

robherc said:


> good idea, but how long does it take to pressurize 50gal airspace to 50psi? and do you have a filter on the air line to remove the oil from the compressed air?


I have a large air compressor that runs at 120 psi so it will pressurize it in about a minute. The compressor has an inline filter and water seperator.

Johnny


----------

