# 9 frames vs. 10 frames in deep hive body



## trs246810 (Jul 2, 2010)

I have heard this is a way to keep from rolling a queen...and to provide better ventilation. Does anyone do this? If you keep them all touching (not spaced) in the center...you would have extra room to separate them all before lifting the frames. Can anyone help me with the pros or cons? Thanks, ~Justin


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Spacing of brood combs naturally is about 1 1/4" (32mm) or 11 to a ten frame box. Of course this requires planing down the end bars. At natural spacing the combs are very uniform in thickness. This is because brood is a consistent depth while honey varies in depth. At 1 3/8" (35mm) or 10 frames to a ten frame box, they are a little uneven. At 1 1/2" (38mm) or 11 frames to a ten frame box, they are very uneven due to honey being drawn out much further than brood. In my experience it's the uneven combs that causes queens to get rolled.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfaqs.htm#framespacing
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesframewidth.htm


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## theriverhawk (Jun 5, 2009)

I've run 9 in a 10 frame box for years. No problems at all. Yes, it does make it more difficult to roll the queen. It's a ton easier to take that first frame out and put that last frame back in. My father has also run 9 in 10 frame boxes for 35 years.


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## beekper (Aug 3, 2010)

I have tryed to use 9 frames but prefer 10 frames in a 10 frame box. The bees will draw out the honey to make up the extra space when using 9 frames, to me it makes for a mess and there is still a chance you will role the queen on the extened honey around the top of the frame. When using 10 frames pull frame #1 or #10 out first it is unlikely to have the queen on it and will likely be honey stores. Pulling these frames first will give you space and only 9 frames to work with. Now you can find the queen or do what ever work is needed. Try and put your frames back the way you found them.

I have worked as UNLV's research beekeepers for going on 8 years now and this is the way I teach my students to open a hive and work your way over to the brood and queen. The students will still roles queens every year when they don't follow what I taught them but if they stick to the plan we have fewer roled queens.


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## mxr618 (Apr 23, 2008)

I suppose I gotta ask --

What's a rolled queen?


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## trs246810 (Jul 2, 2010)

when a frame comes into contact/crushes the queen as it's being pulled from or returned to the hive. ~Justin


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

If you put something between your hands and "rub them together", that which is between your hands gets, "rolled". It can happen similarly with what is between two honeycombs.


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## theriverhawk (Jun 5, 2009)

ps...I run 9 frames in both brood chambers and honey supers. Have never rolled a queen. I, too, pull either 10 or 1 frame first and move over from there in a sliding way. 
They guys I know that have rolled a queen all use 10 frame brood chambers.


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

I like 10 in the brood boxes, & 9 in the honey supers. 
You shouldn't roll you're queen if you remove the outside frame first.


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