# BetterComb Experience, Anyone?



## BumblingBeek

https://www.betterbee.com/frames/adfbcomb10-bettercomb-deep-frame.asp

I have had good experiences with Better Bee as a vendor. I have some colonies which have been slow to build up or draw comb. This is my first year, and I'd just like to get them to survive winter. So, when I saw this email from Betterbee, the product they're now offering of synthetic fully drawn frames of comb, sure did appeal to me...However, when I asked them what the "plant & mineral sources" their site vaguely states the synthetic wax is made of, and if said plant sources are organic to guarantee a pesticide free product, I was not answered with specifics. This is the response I got:

"Hi Wendy,
I'm not able to share the exact ingredients, but I can tell you the material groups used in the production of the wax. The wax blend includes the following material groups: fatty acids, fatty alcohols, fatty acid monesters, diesters, and triesters, and hydrocarbons. I will inquire about whether the plant based ingredients were derived from organic or conventional plants. 

Best Regards,"

I don't really know what any of that means, other than they don't want their formulation emulated, hence the vagueness. Can anyone with a better head for chemical compositions tell me if testing this product may be a good idea for me? Or, has anyone on here tried this product yet???


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## e-spice

I saw that comb as well. Not sure how well it works but it's very expensive. I think of BetterBee as a very reputable company.

For your weaker colonies that aren't building up comb, I would try to determine if they need more comb than they already have. If they really need more, I'd focus on why they haven't drawn sufficient comb instead of trying to augment them with already drawn comb.


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## Saltybee

$59 without the frame. Not sure what it means when they say "after the bees get used to it".
would give late splits a jump on life.

Curious about actual experience.


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## JWPalmer

Wendy, I would file this under "that's interesting", and move on. Bees do three things really well, make bees, make honey, and make bees wax. To do these things, they need a cavity to call home, a prolific queen with healthy bees, and resources in the form of carbohydrates and protein. They will take it from there. If you are not seeing a lot of comb in your hives yet, it is because the bees do not need it. Adding in synthetic comb is unliky to have any effect except to lighten your wallet. Spend the money on a good feeder, I like the styrofoam one that Betterbee sells, get a feeding shim for each hive and a package of Ultrabee pollen patties. Feed the bees syrup, and patty if they will take it, and they will reward you with more bees and drawn comb. I prefer foundationless frames for the brood nest so somebody else's potentially contaminated wax is not a concern.

As Brother Adam said, "listen to the bees and let them guide you".

The lack of new comb is telling you something.


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## BumblingBeek

I do have low nurse bee/aging nurse bee population issues. That's probably what the lack of new comb is trying to tell me. I just thought the product may help, as every time I read a book about installing a new colony, or watch a youtube video on it, the author/videographer usually refers to the lack of already drawn comb as a disadvantage to the new colonies. At any rate, I did ask Frederick Dunn on Youtube, and he said he'd do a product review soon. I will post a link to it if he puts up a review.


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## Apis Natural

IMO It would be cheaper to buy a nuc or some frames of brood from someone.


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## BumblingBeek

Apis Natural said:


> IMO It would be cheaper to buy a nuc or some frames of brood from someone.


When you buy a nuc, do you worry about the old, dark comb that comes in it having a pesticide/chemical build up & needing to be rotated out ASAP? I bought my first nuc this spring, and the comb was U-G-L-Y! The owner of my favorite local beekeeeping store told me he has stopped buying nucs because of the chemical build up in the old comb he kept getting sold, and he also worried about diseases present in that comb. He only does packages now because of that concern...I did ask him if he'd sell me any drawn comb but he said he didn't have any available for sale.


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## MJC417

Its excellent. Curiosity got the best of me and I had to try a box. Bees take to it with no problem. It takes a little finesse getting the comb into the frames but very easy if you gently use the edge of your hive tool to get it started in. The comb feels and looks exactly like fresh beeswax with no odor. Just like freshly drawn comb you have to be careful handling it. The cells are pitched so make sure you look at the edge before you press it into the frames and stick the toothpicks in. The only drawbacks is it may blow apart if you try extracting from it, and of course the price. Not sure if I will purchase more, but I may on occasion. It has all the advantages of having drawn comb like making up late nucs or maybe saving a late swarm with the bonus of no chance of spreading disease. If the price doesn't turn you off then go for it, I don't think you'll be disappointed.


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## BumblingBeek

MJC417 said:


> Its excellent. Curiosity got the best of me and I had to try a box. Bees take to it with no problem. It takes a little finesse getting the comb into the frames but very easy if you gently use the edge of your hive tool to get it started in. The comb feels and looks exactly like fresh beeswax with no odor. Just like freshly drawn comb you have to be careful handling it. The cells are pitched so make sure you look at the edge before you press it into the frames and stick the toothpicks in. The only drawbacks is it may blow apart if you try extracting from it, and of course the price. Not sure if I will purchase more, but I may on occasion. It has all the advantages of having drawn comb like making up late nucs or maybe saving a late swarm with the bonus of no chance of spreading disease. If the price doesn't turn you off then go for it, I don't think you'll be disappointed.


I'm glad you had a positive experience with it. Do you mind if I ask a few more questions?

How long have you had it in your hive?
How long after installation did it take for your bees to use it?
Are your bees using it for brood rearing and resource storing?
Did you install it in your brood box or in a super?

Thank you for sharing your experience.


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## MJC417

BumblingBeek said:


> I'm glad you had a positive experience with it. Do you mind if I ask a few more questions?
> 
> How long have you had it in your hive?
> How long after installation did it take for your bees to use it?
> Are your bees using it for brood rearing and resource storing?
> Did you install it in your brood box or in a super?
> 
> Thank you for sharing your experience.


I've had them in for 3 weeks. Most of the hives started storing nectar 2 days after install because we are on a strong flow now. As far as whether they use the frame for brood or stores has to do with the time of year not the frames. The frames are in brood boxes (deeps). I don't think they come in mediums, you would have to cut them down.


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## grozzie2

BumblingBeek said:


> I bought my first nuc this spring, and the comb was U-G-L-Y!


That goes directly to the quality of the nucs being produced, and how they are produced. I know a lot of folks look at selling a spring nuc as a way to cycle out old ratty comb, but that's not how an operation built on quality nucleus development works. Example, there is one local outfit that runs about 400 colonies for honey in the summer flows. All of those boxes get a deep with new frames for the honey flow. Those frame get built out with fresh new comb, then after the flow they are extracted and stored. Come next spring he will start packages on those boxes of comb, and 6 weeks later those packages are split into multiple nucs. They produce on the order of a thousand 4 framers every year this way, and the vast majority of them are on fresh new comb from the prior summer.

I was at a talk by Randy Oliver a couple years ago focussed around the business model for various ways of keeping bees. He summarized his own business model in one succinct sentence. He buys assembled frames from Mann Lake for a buck and change. Those frames go into hives in the summer, get built out and full of brood. That box of bees will be rented for almond pollination, then split up into nucs, keeping enough behind to lather, rinse and repeat the following year. His succinct sentence, buy a frame for a buck, grow it full of comb, bees and brood, rent it out for 10 bucks, then sell it for 10 bucks.

I think folks that do nucs as an afterthought are indeed using it as a way to cycle out ratty old combs. Folks who have a business built around selling nucs dont have any ratty old comb to put in them because they sell it every year and get the bees to build new.


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## Apis Natural

I don't buy nucs, never have. I started with several swarms and cutouts to get where I am today. Bought the genetic's I wanted to have in my op. Then went from there.
I sell nucs and don't have old dark comb. I followed Michael Palmer's advise using his sustainable apiary model for setting up my aparies. My resource yard used to make nuc's and make my own bee's to use and sell has helped me grow. 
Right now I have 35 double nuc resource hives that make comb and brood for the nucs I overwinter sell next season, and for the nucs I will overwinter for my next seasons increase. Things are busy here for me, queen rearing, constant checking and moving/adding foundation in the resource producers, pulling brood, creating the nucs, building the nucs, making cell starting and finishing hives. I'm really busy with this and my business. Plus there is the production apiary out in the hills I check every weekend. I have a small op, with my 2 young boys to help.
For real, all my colonies and nucs have nice comb. Right now I'm working on queens for the nucs, and putting resources into nucs for next season. 
I evaluate each queen's laying, and brood performance, as Michael suggests, then eliminate those queens I don't like, and the combine those queenless nucs with my production yard colonies. The nucs that pass evaluation overwinter for next season.
Thing is, the resource producers get big fast they are 3-4 boxes high, and those extra boxes become nucs.

Buying packages is a waste of money imo. Failure rate is to high, you have better odds gambling on slot machines.
Worrying about trivial chemicals in dark combs, to me...no biggie, you can cycle those out quickly, plus it's a bit over exaggerated hype since the save the bee movement started a few years ago.
Yes there's some chemmies in the comb, but not enough to harm. it's just not worth this omg the comb is contaminated attitude. Your combs that your bee make will have chemmies from all the flowers they have access to, you can not control where they collect their resources, no matter what one thinks that's the truth
You gotta start somewhere. Have you ever seen the inside of a wild beehive or a barn hive, or cutout, comb is thick and dark, that's due to all the bee cocoons layered over each other, the bees crawling over the comb. you'll see the longer you keep bee's.


Do you belong to a local WA bee club yet? Check out your wasba education programlink you really should get involved. If you're a urban beek, or working towards sidelining with bees joining a club and getting involved will help you immensely. plus they will have members you might be able to aquire decent local survivor bees.

Don't try to force them to do your will, just guide them on the path you want them to follow, like everyone says bee know what they do best. We are just stewards in partnership with them.
IDK maybe I'm deluded but so far this gig is working out for me. Mr Palmer's model works for me.


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## MJC417

Apis Natural said:


> Yes there's some chemmies in the comb, but not enough to harm. it's just not worth this omg the comb is contaminated attitude. Your combs that your bee make will have chemmies from all the flowers they have access to, you can not control where they collect their resources, no matter what one thinks that's the truth


I don't think most worry about chemicals as much as disease that is in the comb.


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## JWPalmer

I just hate to see someone waste their money on a product that is not going to fix their problem. A hive that is healthy but not vigorous does not need more comb, it needs more bees. And bees take time. The queen will not lay in comb if there are not enough nurse bees to tend the brood. As the population increases she can lay more. As she does, there will be a need for comb and there will be young wax producing bees to build it. I have plenty of hives with nice deep drawn out comb that the bees are not using. I have other, much stronger hives, that are drawing me a comb or part of a comb every couple of days. As an example, end of April I caught a small swarm. It was 2 frames of comb and the flow was on. I left it in the nuc it was in and gave it foundationless frames. A month later I put it in a single deep box. That was towards the end of May. Two weeks later I added a second deep, brought up two of the brood frames, and most importantly, started feeding. This hive now has 16 drawn frames out of 20 and is rapidly expanding. Extra drawn frames would have not done me any good early on because the bees were not ready for them. This expansion is not unique. It's what bees do.


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## Saltybee

It's just a tool for the tool box. I have a couple of hammers, doesn' t mean I'm not going to look at another
Foundationless works, foundation works better. Full comb, maybe at the right time.

What is the theory? Takes ten? lbs of lost honey production to draw a frame. Do that math.


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## JWPalmer

My math says you have very large frames,. I think it is more like 10# of honey for the 1# of wax it takes to draw out a medium 10 frame box. No matter, I agree it is a tool for the tool box, but right now, my opinion is that it is the wrong tool for the job.


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## Woodstove

There was a thread recently about wax (foundation, I believe) coming from China, which seemed to be rather inferior. It looked like beeswax, but didn't perform like beeswax. Contamination of the wax supply was another issue that was discussed.

Performance issues aside, this still appears to have the same possibility of tainting the wax supply as does the manmade Chinese wax. Fortunately, it seems to be so cost prohibitive as to not be much of a problem.

From the link in post #1:



> What do I do with the wax at end of life?
> 
> At the end of a frame’s useful life, the combs can be melted down. The resulting wax can be used for candles, but is not beeswax. We have found that the BetterComb wax, as well as mixtures with beeswax, burns in a similar manner to pure beeswax.


This might be a non-issue, but I figured at the very least it was worth posing the question.


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## GregB

BumblingBeek said:


> This is my first year, and I'd just like to get them to survive winter. ................. Can anyone with a better head for chemical compositions tell me if testing this product may be a good idea for me? Or, has anyone on here tried this product yet???


So...
From your other posts, you seem to be trying to be a "natural" type beekeeper.
But now this post...
This is going completely counter to any "natural" type beekeeping.

I say, save your money for some other projects or spend it on good bee stock for your location.

IF anything - get pure 100% beeswax foundation, I guess.
In my project, even pure natural foundation is still money wasted and is going counter to "natural" type beekeeping.

So, BumblingBeek, what is you really want?

Any kind of fancy-shmancy product will not help your bees winter (especially the one in the question - for the cost and all).
Fake foundations are not good or even outright harmful to the bees (case by case).
Fake comb is any better? 
I don't think so.

You need to focus on your bees and somehow obtain good stock that can survive well in any equipment in your area (catch them or buy them).
No need to be buying some "magic", expensive equipment (pretty much useless) - this will end up as just another case of an expensive disappointment.
No need to try to winter your bees at ANY cost.
They should pretty much do it on their own - just be sure they have enough stores - all else is up to the bees, if they are worth anything.

Not long ago I had to give some cold shower to a neighbor who was all too excited to get himself bees (just because I am doing it already and my log hives look, OH SO very cool).
I am not sure how appreciative he was but I gave him an honest assessment about those seemingly cheap "starter-kits" that are nothing but hooks into your wallet.
Resist spending money on any "magical" beekeeping stuff - there is none.


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## Saltybee

JWPalmer said:


> My math says you have very large frames,. I think it is more like 10# of honey for the 1# of wax it takes to draw out a medium 10 frame box. No matter, I agree it is a tool for the tool box, but right now, my opinion is that it is the wrong tool for the job.


Here's an old thread about how many LBs. Your probably closer but I'll stick to my point that comb is not cheap, neither is simple foundation. https://www.beesource.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-260700.html


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## JWPalmer

Saltybee said:


> I'll stick to my point that comb is not cheap, neither is simple foundation.



Agreed. Whether bought pre-made or using the the resources of the bees to make it, a frame of comb represents a significant cost. Killed me when I had to render down some comb that had been newly drawn this year due to wax moth damage. Fortunately it was mostly drone comb so not needed for the rest of this year. The five deep frames yielded 11.4 oz of rendered wax.


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## cfalls

At that price I don't see these being used much by folks who are trying to make money from their bees. But it's an interesting idea, maybe I'll give it a try!

I have some spare Apimaye "handy frames". https://youtu.be/77SRdnZVsFo They come in two plastic parts that snap together to hold wax foundation. I'm thinking that would be an easier way to install these, and the support bars would add a little sturdiness without needing to bother with wires. 

That being said, I've been preferring solid plastic frames. My bees chew through wax foundation and build all kinds of funny stuff on it. In the rare case that they build weird stuff on my plastic Acorn frames it's easier to just scrape it off and let them try again.


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## elmer_fud

I am wondering if they got one of these machines/are getting foundation from one of these machines

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-nb1acIJJ0

There was a thread about this a few months ago but I am not able to find it again.


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## BumblingBeek

I did want to be as natural as possible as a beekeeper, however, I was told in the TF forum that my current situation does not exactly promote that goal. I have accepted the fact that only having (now) 4 colonies in the middle of a large city just won't work as a TF Beek. What I have realigned my goals to now is simply survival of their first winter. I just thought not having to draw out all their own comb may be a boon to my bees, as they may be able to focus more of their energies on the storage of resources in pre-drawn comb instead of building it first. I do understand the point of needing to have higher numbers of nurse bees in order for that pre-drawn comb to even be used. My mentor has really given 2 of my hives an amazing population burst by donating 2 frames of capped brood with adhering nurse bees to both the Caucasians - which began as my weakest colony, and is now my 2nd strongest, and also to my Bee Weaver Survivor Colony. The Survivor colony is now the strongest, and the brood pattern is so nice and solid that I anticipate being able to donate capped brood frames from them to my (2) 5-frame nucs of Saskatraz. I may overwinter these 2 as a Mike Palmer style double nuc with divider board. I went ahead and ordered the Bettercomb, as I do have the funds available, and am not in this to make money but for my love of the bees (and I hope to get honey some year, LOL). My thinking is that if I pull a frame of capped brood from the survivors, that I would replace it with the Bettercomb, and that when I super the double nuc I would use the bettercomb in the super so that they can start storing their winter survival resources in it immediately...It's an experiment I am willing to try and have either good or bad results with at this point...I also am not interested in obtaining beeswax comb because of the many warnings about the levels of chemicals it contains. The beauty industry won't even purchase beeswax from American Beekeepers now because of our wax contamination levels. The claim of Bettercomb is that it is free of harmful chemicals, and I do feel like Betterbee is a good vendor, so I'm willing to try to take them at their word. They have told me they use the Bettercomb in their own Apiary with good results. So I guess now it's wait and see how my bees take to it. Yesterday, I switched out 2 undrawn foundation frames in the Survivor hive with the Bettercomb, 1 in the Caucasians...They are drawing their own comb on foundation free frames so fast that I don't want to disturb that, but they did have one untouched Acorn frame on the outside of their brood frames. Each of my Saskatraz nucs got 1 undrawn foundation frame replaced with Bettercomb as well. I will share my experience, good or bad with the product.


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## shannonswyatt

I think that these may be good for a first year beek with packages. Go in with a person or two and put in two or three frames per package. Since they don't have any drawn comb it would make sense, and the difference in a package that is given a little drawn comb can be significant, at least that is what I have seen. That and late splits if you are out of drawn comb but have hives to split. It is hard to get bees to draw comb after the solstice, this could be the ticket if you have no other resource. As far as the cost it doesn't seem crazy expensive, $8.50 a frame (with the frame). I doubt I could get clean drawn comb from anyone for $8.50. 

If I lived in an area with a longer flow it would be a different story, but in my neck of the woods we get our primary flow in mid May to the end of May, and with a little luck we see a minor flow through June, enough to keep them from going robbing crazy. Our last frost is mid April, and folks getting packages can get them around the 1st of April. It isn't uncommon for a late frost to take out stuff in early May. Fall flow is fickle, lots of year it is a wash out. So there really isn't much of a window to get a chance to get a surplus when you have 60 days to get a hive going prior to the end of the flow.

I would rather see a new beekeeper have success their first year, this may be the difference between getting a little honey or getting none.


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## BumblingBeek

I do have 3 frames of Bettercomb in my Bee Weaver Survivor colony about 3/4 full of nectar 10 days after installing it. My Caucasians only received one frame of the Bettercomb, and they have it about 1/4 full of nectar 10 days later. I didn't have time to inspect my 2 Saskatraz Nucs this weekend, ended up supering the Caucasians...So, yay!!! Stayed up late last night assembling medium frames to add a super to my Survivor Colony, and hope to put that super on after work today. I will likely be able to check in on how the Saskatraz are doing with their Bettercomb frames tomorrow.


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## ifixoldhouses

I ordered some, thinking it would be good for honey bound hives, that way you can just freeze the full frame of honey, or put it in a split.


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## BumblingBeek

ifixoldhouses said:


> I ordered some, thinking it would be good for honey bound hives, that way you can just freeze the full frame of honey, or put it in a split.


I am curious if you've received yours yet? If not yet, will you post when they start using it and how? I find it interesting that in my survivor colony, even though I put the 3 bettercomb frames in the center of the hive, rather than the queen laying eggs in them the workers have filled them with nectar.


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## ifixoldhouses

I just got the tracking number, be here Aug 2nd it says.


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## BumblingBeek

ifixoldhouses said:


> I just got the tracking number, be here Aug 2nd it says.


If you could do us a favor and let us know how your bees react to it that would be awesome! I didn't start this thread in an attempt to make beekeeping more expensive for new beeks. I just saw an opportunity for my delayed build-up hives to start filling their hives up faster, and I think it's important for others who are considering purchasing a product new on the market to know other beekeepers' experience with said product.


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## ifixoldhouses

I installed it in 3 or 4 different hives, will update in a week or so.


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## snl

I’ve heard the bees will readily put honey in them, but queens don’t like to lay in them. They will until comb is available, then that’s it.


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## BumblingBeek

snl said:


> I’ve heard the bees will readily put honey in them, but queens don’t like to lay in them. They will until comb is available, then that’s it.


I just did an inspection on my Survivor colony, and all 3 of the Better Comb frames are filled wall-to-wall with nectar, and some of the upper cells are capped. I still have them clustered in the center of the brood box, but am considering moving them to the outside positions since it seems the Queen wants to lay in every other available cell in the brood box. I don’t want the brood to remain broken up on either side of the Bettercomb when we start getting cooler nights in about a month.


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## ifixoldhouses

Seen this video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajrDST8m8yc


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## HeadofMeadow

snl said:


> I’ve heard the bees will readily put honey in them, but queens don’t like to lay in them. They will until comb is available, then that’s it.


As they say results will vary. We put in three frames of better comb into a strong colony about a week ago. We checked this weekend and they quickly put some honey in and it would appear the queen skipped them completely. We grouped the better comb all together as it tells you on the facebook page, not sure why they want all bettercomb together and right in the center, maybe to force the queen to lay? I would have thought a checkerboard would be better. 

It will be interesting to see if she does start to lay.


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## MJC417

HeadofMeadow said:


> As they say results will vary. We put in three frames of better comb into a strong colony about a week ago. We checked this weekend and they quickly put some honey in and it would appear the queen skipped them completely. We grouped the better comb all together as it tells you on the facebook page, not sure why they want all bettercomb together and right in the center, maybe to force the queen to lay? I would have thought a checkerboard would be better.
> 
> It will be interesting to see if she does start to lay.


I checkerboarded them and some are full frames of brood now.


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## BumblingBeek

MJC417 said:


> I checkerboarded them and some are full frames of brood now.


You rebel, you! hehehe


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## ifixoldhouses

I talked to the Betterbee people at the NCSBA convention today, they said they would absolutely lay in the bettercomb, they had a lot of research in it. I'll check on mine tomorrow. Also saw Kellys Beekeeping there, long ways from KY.


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## BumblingBeek

ifixoldhouses said:


> I talked to the Betterbee people at the NCSBA convention today, they said they would absolutely lay in the bettercomb, they had a lot of research in it. I'll check on mine tomorrow. Also saw Kellys Beekeeping there, long ways from KY.


Awesome! Sounds like a fun day! Can't wait to hear about what you find tomorrow... )


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## ifixoldhouses

Didn't see any eggs, they fastened the comb to the frame all around, filling with syrup and pollen. I think once they remove the syrup and pollen and clean and polish the queen will lay in it.


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## HeadofMeadow

So, I checked last weekend, and as you can see the queen is laying in it. I bought some to just have as another tool if I needed it. I ended up putting three frames in one hive and three in another (to reduce honey bound). I can not honestly say if the queen took any longer to lay in it but at this point it seems just like any other built comb. 

The one thing I will say is that assembly was kind of a pain in the butt. If I had wires and used the resistance melting method it would be easy but I bought the bettercomb which included toothpicks. It just took a little time to get the hang of getting it in. The main problem I had is that there was no paper separating one comb from the next. Which is odd because wax foundation includes it. This means you have to almost pull apart each comb and it took time. Also, as you can see in the picture one of the combs ended up getting mashed together with the next comb so one side of each of these frames was pretty damaged. I know the bees will fix it but one of the reasons to buy built comb is to not have to have the bees need to spend time and resources building/fixing or repairing comb.


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## ifixoldhouses

Mine have been in two weeks, in several different hives, no laying yet, some not touched much at all, some have nectar pollen, ones swelled up fat with sugar syrup.


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## ifixoldhouses

3 weeks, we have laying!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpUT7Aa92BU&feature=youtu.be


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## jtelander

ifixoldhouses said:


> 3 weeks, we have laying!
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpUT7Aa92BU&feature=youtu.be


Excellent. I've been using it for a couple of weeks. So far lots of stored sugar syrup (some capped) and pollen. No eggs or larva. FWIW, I notice you checkerboarded the bettercomb in one of your colonies. The instructions advise not to do that. It will be interesting to see how those frames do. Please keep us posted.


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## BumblingBeek

ifixoldhouses said:


> 3 weeks, we have laying!
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpUT7Aa92BU&feature=youtu.be


Awesome!


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## BumblingBeek

https://youtu.be/yhOHpE_enOE

Frederick Dunn is trying this product out on a late-collected swarm this season. He will post updates, but I find it encouraging that the swarm immediately began bringing in pollen rather than expending their immediate energy on drawing out comb. So, I do suspect the top valid uses for the Better Comb are swarms & honey-bound hives...


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## Oneshoo

Fred just posted his latest video on the synthetic comb. He caught a swarm on Aug. 4 and put it in a hive with several frames of the synthetic comb. To this date he showed all stages of brood and it seemed like the bees to a liking to it??


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## jtelander

Oneshoo said:


> Fred just posted his latest video on the synthetic comb. He caught a swarm on Aug. 4 and put it in a hive with several frames of the synthetic comb. To this date he showed all stages of brood and it seemed like the bees to a liking to it??


Here's a link to his video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74Ajg1chRqQ


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## ifixoldhouses

I uploaded latest video, see the bettercomb inspection at about 17:00 - 20:00 sealed brood frame

https://youtu.be/Mqm9fUka3DA


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## jtelander

ifixoldhouses said:


> I uploaded latest video, see the bettercomb inspection at about 17:00 - 20:00 sealed brood frame
> 
> https://youtu.be/Mqm9fUka3DA


That's great..so far, so good!


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## LittleJoe

shannonswyatt said:


> I think that these may be good for a first year beek with packages. Go in with a person or two and put in two or three frames per package. Since they don't have any drawn comb it would make sense, and the difference in a package that is given a little drawn comb can be significant, at least that is what I have seen. That and late splits if you are out of drawn comb but have hives to split. It is hard to get bees to draw comb after the solstice, this could be the ticket if you have no other resource. As far as the cost it doesn't seem crazy expensive, $8.50 a frame (with the frame). I doubt I could get clean drawn comb from anyone for $8.50.
> 
> If I lived in an area with a longer flow it would be a different story, but in my neck of the woods we get our primary flow in mid May to the end of May, and with a little luck we see a minor flow through June, enough to keep them from going robbing crazy. Our last frost is mid April, and folks getting packages can get them around the 1st of April. It isn't uncommon for a late frost to take out stuff in early May. Fall flow is fickle, lots of year it is a wash out. So there really isn't much of a window to get a chance to get a surplus when you have 60 days to get a hive going prior to the end of the flow.
> 
> I would rather see a new beekeeper have success their first year, this may be the difference between getting a little honey or getting none.


This^ I will be starting my first hives spring of "20" and this is my plan for starting with packages.


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## ifixoldhouses

I believe it's back in stock, I got a shipment of it coming Wednesday


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## BeemanBJ

Amen!


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## ifixoldhouses

I had alot of bettercomb melt and sag, made huge cells. I had formic pro on em for 2 weeks with bottom boards installed, it has been 90+ here lately. I just received another box of it, doubt I buy anymore.


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## JWPalmer

You should post pictures so other will know what can happen. Were these empty comb or did they have brood/stores in them? Are.the hives (bees) otherwise OK?


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## ifixoldhouses

just honey in them, they sag down with the weight, when it's hot, and the middle bulges out, and stretches all the cells huge, may get a picture next week.


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## JWPalmer

Hmm. Might be interesting to know what the melting point of the synthetic wax really is, or at least the temperature at which it begins to lose structural integrity. May turn out to be a product better suited for northern beeks or for use in the brood nest only.


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## elmer_fud

ifixoldhouses said:


> just honey in them, they sag down with the weight, when it's hot, and the middle bulges out, and stretches all the cells huge, may get a picture next week.


I would also send the pictures of them to betterbee. If they know they have a potential problem they are more likely to fix it then if they do not know about it.


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## HeadofMeadow

I had bought 10 of the bettercomb and betterframes, although I was a little skeptical of the toothpicks being strong enough it would appear on several of the combs that the frames sagged. In one hive I placed three (3) frames in the center of the brood box and they did lay in one frame but the other two (2) got honey. I went through this weekend and "re-centered" the brood nest putting the honey frames on the outside. 

As you can see in the photos the comb certainly did melt in the middle and sagged down. This caused it to bulge out at the bottom causing a channel on the other side. Then they built drone comb in the available space on top and on the bulge on the other side. I installed the comb in early august and live in south west Connecticut. The high temperature since install was 89 degrees.

The bulge creates a small valley that is hard to inspect. I will probably cull any of the damaged better comb next year as it makes inspection difficult. Then I will have bettercandles.

As a tool it probably has its place, with an early season package maybe the bees will "harden" up the frames enough before summer time. I almost bought some more last month but thankfully they were back ordered.


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## ifixoldhouses

pic #5 looks like the ones I saw in my hives.


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## HeadofMeadow

I got my 2020 better bee catalog in the mail today and noticed some new instructions on their better comb. It is sold in two styles, wire and toothpick. You can’t use toothpick style frames in hot climates, for honey frames, for extraction frames only for brood frames. I wish I had known when I bought them last season, I wouldn’t have used the toothpick style. I will make sure to tell my honey bound hives to not lay honey in the frames next time!


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## Oneshoo

Has anyone tried Better Comb this year?? I am trying for the first time this year, and have not had 1 egg layed in any of the Better Comb frames that I have used. All they do is put nectar in the comb??? Anyone have experience this year???


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## jtelander

I tried 20 frames of it and there was never an egg in it. I've eliminated it from all of my colonies and threw it in the trash.


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## Clayton Huestis

I like Betterbee done business there for years. But bettercomb is one product I wouldn't mind disappearing off the shelf. Just because bees will use it when forced don't make it right. There is no substitute for beeswax... only they can make it, the end.


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## HeadofMeadow

I agree, luckily I only bought 10 combs, I am culling it out and will probably make some candles out of it, although not bees wax candles.


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## ankklackning

Well from reading your comments above I'm glad I didn't spend money on trying this. It would make sense if its not great for brood nests, because written books often say that the bees like queen cups to be just a certain way also. So if they are picky about queen cups, don't you think they'd also be picky about normal egg cups? 

But maybe this product could be used for supers only...I suppose? 

But what gets me is the shipping costs almost make it so much trouble to get any thing, unless you can find a company willing to give you shipping free if you are over a hundred bucks. 

Thanks for posting this threat.


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