# Excalibur hive tool



## xen (Jun 12, 2003)

Saw a new hive tool in one of the bee mags and was wondering if anyone knew of where to get one . The excalibur hive tool it is called.Checked most os the big suppliers with no luck.


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## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

They are still messing around with the tooling at the factory.

It is amazingly difficult to make something out of tool steel, when
one must use one type of tool steel to cut the other type of tool steel.

Hang in there, we've got too many advance orders to not be 
pushing hard on this little project.


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## JC (Jun 3, 2006)

Jim Fischer said:


> They are still messing around with the tooling at the factory.
> 
> It is amazingly difficult to make something out of tool steel, when
> one must use one type of tool steel to cut the other type of tool steel.
> ...


How difficult would it be to make the hive tool out of stainless steel? The best hive tool that I have is a stainless hive tool from Bee Works.

http://www.beeworks.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=9


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## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

Excalibur is stainless steel.

A very nice grade of stainless - less "soft" than the one sold by BeeWorks
(who buy theirs from Thorne, who have them made in Red China).
I can bend one of those with my bare hands, and likely so can you if
you put your mind to it.

Excalibur ain't gonna bend.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

http://www.beeworks.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=8

I like this one better. I had one, but I lost it. I like the Italian ones from Brushy Mt. the best.

http://www.beeequipment.com/products.asp?pcode=591


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## JC (Jun 3, 2006)

Michael Bush said:


> http://www.beeworks.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=8
> 
> I like this one better. I had one, but I lost it. I like the Italian ones from Brushy Mt. the best.
> 
> http://www.beeequipment.com/products.asp?pcode=591


I like the Italian hive tool for separating the supers since the Italian hive tool is thinner than other hive tools. Howver, I do not use it for anything else. Do you use the Italian hive tool for all your manipulations? Please explain.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Do you use the Italian hive tool for all your manipulations? Please explain.

Yes. You have to learn how to use it effectively since it is different. You can use the flat end as you do any hive tool, except you get more leverage. You use the hook any of several ways. You can hook it under the end of the frames (and being a smaller hook it goes in much easier than the Maxant version) and then you can actually pry against the rabbet as the force is in a downward direction unlike a regular hive tool which will break out the rabbet. Or you can pry against the frame next to it, if you prefer. The hook is small enough to get into tight places.

The one from beeworks is the Thorne version of the Maxant type. But it has a smaller hook (though not as small as the Italian) and it's stainless steel (unlike the Italian or the Maxant).


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Michael Bush said:


> http://www.beeworks.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=8


I agree Mike. I've had mine a long time. What it would take to bend it from use would be enormous, beyond any of my hive management practices.

Although, mine is from Maxant and if I understand you correctly, it's not stainless but steel? Hard for me to imagine the need for stainless as mine always has a thin coating of wax from use so rust isn't an issue.


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## JC (Jun 3, 2006)

Michael Bush said:


> >Do you use the Italian hive tool for all your manipulations? Please explain.
> 
> Yes. You have to learn how to use it effectively since it is different. You can use the flat end as you do any hive tool, except you get more leverage. You use the hook any of several ways. You can hook it under the end of the frames (and being a smaller hook it goes in much easier than the Maxant version) and then you can actually pry against the rabbet as the force is in a downward direction unlike a regular hive tool which will break out the rabbet. Or you can pry against the frame next to it, if you prefer. The hook is small enough to get into tight places.
> 
> The one from beeworks is the Thorne version of the Maxant type. But it has a smaller hook (though not as small as the Italian) and it's stainless steel (unlike the Italian or the Maxant).


Thanks for the information. I will start using my Italian hive tool more. The Italian hive tool and the stainless steel hive tools from Bee Works beat all of the other hive tools hands down!


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## JC (Jun 3, 2006)

Barry said:


> I agree Mike. I've had mine a long time. What it would take to bend it from use would be enormous, beyond any of my hive management practices.
> 
> Although, mine is from Maxant and if I understand you correctly, it's not stainless but steel? Hard for me to imagine the need for stainless as mine always has a thin coating of wax from use so rust isn't an issue.


The stainless steel hive tool from Bee Works is thinner and a joy to use!


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## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

> mine always has a thin coating of wax from use so rust isn't an issue.

Hey! You are supposed to clean your hive tool at least 
every so often, ya know! 

The idea behind stainless is that it will not rust, not pit, nor
present a rough surface that would allow gunk to stick or stay in
a nook or cranny. The other idea is that it can stand being autoclaved
or tossed in dishwasher for sterilization.

The "lifters" on the Maxant, the Bee Works (Thorne) and the 
very long "Italian" tools are just not small enough to get between
frames and left them out of sticky propolis and/or bridge comb,
hence the much smaller lifter end on Excalibur. But, to each his
own.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Interesting, I've never had any problems with the Maxant getting the hook between the frames and under the frame ends to lift them up.


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

Nor have I. I keep two of the Maxant tools in my bucket and like using them.


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## Swobee (May 18, 2007)

Jim Fischer said:


> >
> The other idea is that it can stand being autoclaved or tossed in dishwasher for sterilization.


The autoclave my wife got at WalMart broke, so now I just wipe it off real well. 
I haven't seen (only a catalog photo) or used the Italian hive tool, but it would have to be pretty special to replace my Maxant.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>The "lifters" on the Maxant, the Bee Works (Thorne) and the
very long "Italian" tools are just not small enough to get between
frames and left them out of sticky propolis and/or bridge comb,
hence the much smaller lifter end on Excalibur.

I have trouble with the Maxant being too big, the Thorne is better, but still a bit too big, the Italian works fine for me. I am curious to see the Excalibur.

>Interesting, I've never had any problems with the Maxant getting the hook between the frames and under the frame ends to lift them up.

I have. I gave my Maxant ones away.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Michael Bush said:


> I gave my Maxant ones away.


I wish you would have told me before doing that. I'd have made a case for you to give them to me. 
I could use another one.
After all this talk about Maxant being too big on the lifter, I went and thinned mine down just a tad on the grinder. Now it slips in real easy!


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

This talk about Maxant's hive tool has peaked my interest. I couldn't relate to those saying their tool is not "as thin". I went back and looked closely to the image on Bee Works website and realized that mine has a much finer (thinner) edge. Oh yea, now I remember customizing it on my grinder, shortly after I got it. I do this to all my flat bars as I find them to be too thick and blunt on the edges.


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## ScadsOBees (Oct 2, 2003)

Barry said:


> This talk about Maxant's hive tool has peaked my interest. I couldn't relate to those saying their tool is not "as thin". I went back and looked closely to the image on Bee Works website and realized that mine has a much finer (thinner) edge. Oh yea, now I remember customizing it on my grinder, shortly after I got it. I do this to all my flat bars as I find them to be too thick and blunt on the edges.


That is why I use both the Maxant and a standard hive tool when inspecting. I don't have a grinder.


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

Where exactly are you grinding? Mine came with a sharp end that makes it easy to separate frames, then the hook has plenty of room.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

The Maxant tool has an "edge" on two sides of the end. On both of these edges, I made the angle more gradual by grinding further back towards the middle. 

http://www.beesource.com/imgs/tooledge.jpg

The bottom figure is how mine looks. It is very sharp.


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## PCM (Sep 18, 2007)

Mr. Bush;
You state the lifters are to large.

I believe I read in your previous posts that you sand the edges of your frames so as to fit 9 in a 8 frame hive, would this have a bearing on the tool being too large.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

PCM


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I believe I read in your previous posts that you sand the edges of your frames so as to fit 9 in a 8 frame hive, would this have a bearing on the tool being too large.

Good observation. I have cut down many of my frames. And not cut down many of my frames. The Maxant, IMO, is too large for both.


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## blkcloud (May 25, 2005)

Jim Fischer said:


> They are still messing around with the tooling at the factory.
> 
> It is amazingly difficult to make something out of tool steel, when
> one must use one type of tool steel to cut the other type of tool steel.
> ...


Actually most people cut tool steel with carbide, and in the case where you do need to use a cutter made of tool steel it usually has some type of Titanium coating on it. also, when cutting tool steel the part has not been through the hardening process like the cutter has and is pretty easy to cut..
Now if this tool is actually made of stainless we have said all of this for nothing..stainless steel and tool steel are 2 different things..


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

Or they cut it, then harden it, then finish grind it.


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## trapperbob (May 27, 2007)

I couple of regular hive tools but they set in my smoker box most of the time since I bought the 14 inch hive tool from Betterbee I really like this tool it has a lot of leverage can be used as a frame lifter and scraper the only thing that I did was dull it a little it was sharp enough to be used as wood plane and i just don't seem to leave it laying around so I don't forget it after I'm done


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