# Apiguard and residue



## Radar (Sep 4, 2006)

There is a report at the following site where it did leave residue but then went on to say the it may have been caused by misuse, however it seems difficult to see how it could be misused,

http://www.epa.gov/pesticides/local/region4/ag/honeybee_report.pdf 

I have now heard that oxalic acid may now be legally used in Great Britain. What method I do not yet know however all is to be revealed shortly.

[ October 25, 2006, 03:01 PM: Message edited by: Radar ]


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## tony350i (Jul 29, 2005)

Thanks for the link Radar,

What part of the UK are you from.

I dont want to have to use treatments that could leave harmful residues coz all my frames should be free off any past v mite treatments.
I have change over to new foundation 4.9mm;start strips and empty frames this year.

That trouble is I havent got the experience to tell if this particle hive has got a problem,

This is the first year that I have used SBB and may be this is what has rattle me a bit because I can see the mite drops going up, 
This time last year I would have put my Apistan strips in to run there coarse and looked forward to the following spring when I could get back into my hives and play beekeeper for another year.

Tony

[ October 25, 2006, 04:25 PM: Message edited by: tony350i ]


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## Finman (Nov 5, 2004)

.
Formic acid and oxalic acid are harmless stuff for consumer. If you heat oxalic acid it makes formic acid..

Europen Union recommendations:

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=16374464 

http://www.neurobiologie.fu-berlin.de/menzel/Rademacher.html 


########oxalic acid was listed in Annex II of Council Regulation (EEC) 2377/90 (Rademacher and Imdorf , 2004). This means that the substance is evaluated as not dangerous, and no residue limit is needed to protect the consumer. On this basis every European country can apply for approval and the Concept of Integrated Varroa Control, as recommended by the scientific institutes for bee research, can legally be implemented. It was the first time that scientific institutes and beekeeper organisations worked together on a European level to establish the legal basis for drug approval in bees. 

.


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## tony350i (Jul 29, 2005)

thanks for the links Finman

maybe Formic acid and oxalic acid would be a better way to go if i need to.

 [ October 25, 2006, 05:01 PM: Message edited by: tony350i ]


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## Finman (Nov 5, 2004)

Tony, if you make trickling you have no hurry with mites. On another hand mites are violating brood all the time. Formic acid can be used when out temperature is about 17-20 C. 

Tricking is used when all brood are emerged and temperature is about +5C.


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## Finman (Nov 5, 2004)

.
Apiguard is thymol based. It needs high out temperture and that time hive has brood. 
.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Tony,

Last year I donated 50 hives for various treatment testing conducted through the state. Apiguard was one of the treatments. 

This past spring I could tell you actually which ones had apiguard placed in the hive the previous summer. I know the treatments were placed on the top bars of the brood chamber, and thus I question did the woodenware absorb it, or did the wax also absorb it?

I will assume that there must be a certain level allowed in guidelines and approval passage. I can only assume also that the levels were not any higher than those previously seen in testing.

It does make you wonder when you can still smell the thymol the following spring.


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## tony350i (Jul 29, 2005)

Last year I had to combine my hives and I was back to one hive going in to winter, so I brought a nuc, which had been treated several weeks before with Apiguard before I went to pick it up.

I had this nuc for 5 or 6 weeks before I swooped it over to one of my brood boxes and there was still a strong smell off thymol on the frames too.

This hive built up well going in to the following spring with me treating it like it was the last beehive in the world then the queen disappeared or I was clumsy.

It had 5-queen cell, which I thought was far to early for swarming so I split it.

I dont have the years of beekeeping behind me but my gut feeling the thymol smell was stronger then the queens own pheromone so they raised the c ells

So if I do need to treat I think I will go with the acid 


Tony


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## Radar (Sep 4, 2006)

Tony,

You may be right about the smell of Thymol but somehow I feel it is a bit more complicated than that. For years Thymol was mixed with Syrup to prevent mould and fermention. Indeed until recently Thornes catalogue carried the instructions for mixing. You mentioned a nuc being treated with Apiguard perhaps it was given a full treatment instead of half as per instructions.

When Varroa spread north it leapfrogged the North East into Scotland. When I first found varroa in August/September 2001 I panicked and treated with Apistan immediatly, but as there was still brood in the hives at the time even though I left it in for the required time I still found Varroa in the New Year so I treated again. 

At that time I had nine hives and requeened in early summer. I only managed six young Queens which I introduced into hives in June, all went well for a while, but by the middle of August 
all six were either dead, absconded or superceded
and I only had three 2001 queens left. The supercedure queens I did not keep.

That year I reared some more queens on new frames and reqeened in autumn. That was the first and only time I used Apistan. Now do not assume that I am blaming the chemical I should not have used it in the spring again. It had no visible effect on the old queens but I felt that some contamination of the wax used by the bees to make the queen cells may have been dentrimental to their well being. 

I am pleased that at last we are now to be allowed to treat our bees as the rest of Europe
have been doing.


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## Robert Brenchley (Apr 23, 2000)

The report Radar gave a link to fails to give vital information about the time between treatment and testing for residue. I can well understand thymol reaminging in wax for a short period, but if it was present over a long period I'd be concerned about it. I can't see that happening though, unless there's something going on I haven't heard about. As it stands, you can't really evaluate what's going on at all without more details.


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## albee (Nov 16, 2006)

My strong hives chewed up the foil coaster and removed the thymol in a week. The weaker hives left the foil and a month after the second treatment they still have that smell.


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## SeaCucumber (Jun 5, 2014)

I'd like to find a better fall treatment. Right now, I only use OAV. Is this the best for my goals?

goals

There's no residue by the end of next spring.
mite resistance: different enough from oxalic acid
I think there are 2 fall treatments.

The generation before winter bees
winter bees
Randy Oliver said thymol suppresses brood. If so, it might be best for fall treatment 2.


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## SeaCucumber (Jun 5, 2014)

Cornell page:

Residue dissipation times
Apiguard: "weeks"
Apivar: "months"

"residue in wax?": "Yes, but dissipate in weeks."

"Negative": "Reduced queen laying, and increased brood and adult mortality has been documented. Risks are greater when used at too high temperatures."


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## elmer_fud (Apr 21, 2018)

SeaCucumber said:


> I'd like to find a better fall treatment. Right now, I only use OAV. Is this the best for my goals?
> 
> goals
> 
> ...


FYI, This is a 15 year old thread, 

I have used both Apivar and OAV in the fall. OAV is a lot more work, but it is cheaper and I have had apivar not kill off many mites.


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