# Pamphlets handed out at work - What does Bayer have to do with bees?



## Teht (Apr 21, 2015)

I was out of the office yesterday, but I've heard there were "Bee people" set up in a kiosk in our common area, handing out pamphlets and honey-straws. I assumed it was a local beekeeping club, so I was sorry I missed the opportunity, however a friend of mine handed me the pamphlet they were handing out. It reads like propaganda, but maybe I'm wearing a tin-foil hat. Curious what this community thinks about it...

http://i.imgur.com/W5xVz5f.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/vB8v4Wk.jpg


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## Australian Beekeeper (Jun 22, 2014)

Sounds like they were Bayer people rather than bee people. Bayer, as you no doubt know, make the insecticides being defended by that thinly veiled pamphlet.

Regardless of what source it is coming from though I tend to agree with most of what is on the pamphlet (though I know nothing about the historical US data and how accurate it is).


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## cgybees (Apr 20, 2015)

I find it curious how all the conclusions they draw support the products they make money from, and how all the language subtly paints people with concerns as overreacting.

Seems totally impartial, I'd go with it..


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## BadBeeKeeper (Jan 24, 2015)

"Thinly veiled"? "A load of bull"? "Propaganda"?

I think the pamphlet is well-written and provides factual information. Items #3 & #4 were the particular subjects of a discussion I had recently with a commercial operator together with my state bee inspector, and the conclusions are the same. I am in complete agreement with it overall.


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## beesohappy (Jun 3, 2009)

Interesting! Where do you work? I'm thinking somewhere big like google, fedex, ups, microsoft, boeing, yahoo or someplace like these. I wonder whats next... county fairs.


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## Westhill (Jul 26, 2012)

It's Bayer, trying to establish themselves in people's minds as friendly to bees, after all the negative publicity they get for creating pesticides and other chemicals harmful to bees. So, when people read articles in the news mentioning that Bayer is behind all the bee-killing, these people will think, "Oh, not Bayer. Must be a mistake. Because Bayer is a bunch of Bee-People who love the little honeybees."


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## burns375 (Jul 15, 2013)

Teht said:


> It reads like propaganda, but maybe I'm wearing a tin-foil hat.


ha, thats the first thought that came to mind. Its like the tobacco industry handing out pamplets that smoking won't give you lung cancer. Its pollution, genetics, diet, many other factors that do. Not the best example but same sort of thing. Perhaps not as severe 

If you don't mind me asking, where do you work?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

"Insecticides don't kill insects... er... I mean bees..."


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## lemmje (Feb 23, 2015)

Pesticides are one of the contributing factors to the health of bees to be sure --- just had this discussion with my brother last night in fact, telling him that treatment for mites involves adding just enough insecticide to kill the mites but not enough to kill the bees.......

Anyway, red flags are raised when i read the following: 

"Research shows that there are many factors affection the health of honey bees including parasites, diseases, inadequate nutrition, lack of available forage, *off-label use of pesticides* and hive management practices."

Why qualify that?


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## baiz (Mar 26, 2015)

Anyone notice that there was no "works cited" page to show what studies they were basing their information off of.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

lemmje said:


> Pesticides are one of the contributing factors to the health of bees to be sure --- just had this discussion with my brother last night in fact, telling him that treatment for mites involves adding just enough insecticide to kill the mites but not enough to kill the bees.......
> 
> Anyway, red flags are raised when i read the following:
> 
> ...


Why qualify thar? ....because beekeepers will put almost anything in a beehive if they think it will kill the mites.


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## Teht (Apr 21, 2015)

Interesting how many PMs I got on this...

Personally, I'd not be surprised if some of the information on the pamphlet is useful and correct, although lack of cited reference material and the large amount of repetition makes it look questionable to me. Granted in general handout pamphlets aren't expected to be scientific journals.

My cause for concern is how these people were playing themselves off as bee enthusiasts. Friends of mine at work who know I'm getting into beekeeping were texting me to let me know I should visit the kiosk, thinking I'd be interested. One of my beek coworkers also visited and saw through the ruse very quickly when he saw the pamphlet. He read them the riot act, to which they had very little valid responses - apparently they were unprepared to face any resistance.

Unfortunately (or fortunately) it's a place of business so my friend could not be too vocal in his anger at the situation, so these people got their job done. I've already talked to a few friends who brought it up, asking me what I thought about the new insecticides that are safe for bees, and if I knew that CCD isn't a thing anymore. They were pretty well sold on it, and weren't happy when I explained my opinion on the matter.

Believe it or not, the one thing that bothers me the most is that these people were handing out honey straws... I know there's nothing to keep them from doing so, but I feel like it's a big sign that says "I'm your friendly neighborhood hobby beekeeper". I'm sure these people know that, and that's why they did it...


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## Cyan (Jan 27, 2015)

Just like big pharma- sure it's all natural, has less side effects, and costs pennies on the dollar. But if people buy that stuff we lose millions. Let's demonize it as best we can and then get our lobbyists working on it in Washington.


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## Teht (Apr 21, 2015)

lemmje said:


> Pesticides are one of the contributing factors to the health of bees to be sure --- just had this discussion with my brother last night in fact, telling him that treatment for mites involves adding just enough insecticide to kill the mites but not enough to kill the bees.......
> 
> Anyway, red flags are raised when i read the following:
> 
> ...


Per my buddy (not a definitive source, but a smart guy) the reason for this is because the label says not to spray during foraging hours specifically so you don't kill bees. The problem is the amount of people who either don't read the label or do read it and choose to ignore it. If you're a farmer and you read the label at 10:00am and notice it says you need to spray your field before sun-up, are you going to wait or are you going to spray the field that needs to be sprayed?


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## Teht (Apr 21, 2015)

burns375 said:


> ha, thats the first thought that came to mind. Its like the tobacco industry handing out pamplets that smoking won't give you lung cancer. Its pollution, genetics, diet, many other factors that do. Not the best example but same sort of thing. Perhaps not as severe
> 
> If you don't mind me asking, where do you work?


At the corporate offices for one of the major US home improvement retailers...  They don't like us actually saying what company we work for online cause #legal, you know how it goes...


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## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

Teht said:


> I was out of the office yesterday, but I've heard there were "Bee people" set up in a kiosk in our common area, handing out pamphlets and honey-straws. I assumed it was a local beekeeping club, so I was sorry I missed the opportunity, however a friend of mine handed me the pamphlet they were handing out. It reads like propaganda, but maybe I'm wearing a tin-foil hat. Curious what this community thinks about it...
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/W5xVz5f.jpg
> http://i.imgur.com/vB8v4Wk.jpg


Hard to read, but the "Bayer" name says it all. They are famous for spreading poison and selling the beekeeping chemicals.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

It's coming from Bayer.
It's very well written. 

Lots of facts...Lots of half truths.

You don't even have to read it to know what it says.
Would they write it any other way?


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

When did insecticides become pesticides? "They" want everyone to believe these products kill only pests, not bees. When someone tries to deceive you, they have a reason to.

Alex


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## BadBeeKeeper (Jan 24, 2015)

AHudd said:


> When did insecticides become pesticides? "They" want everyone to believe these products kill only pests, not bees.


Not true, and a ridiculously paranoid position. Insects are not the only "pests" that affect crops. Some of the products I use control not only insects, but other organisms as well, and it is more appropriate to call them pesticides rather than insecticides.



> When someone tries to deceive you, they have a reason to.


Not necessarily, deceit can occur as a result of ignorance or stupidity as well. Those who lack the ability to distinguish the truth through intelligence, logic and rational thought are perfectly capable of spreading lies, in fact, such people are the perfect tools for spreading propaganda. There is a quote that sums it up perfectly:



> To attract people, to win over people...that is called propaganda. In the beginning there is the understanding, this understanding uses propaganda as a tool to find those men, that shall turn understanding into politics. _Success is the important thing._ *Propaganda is not a matter for average minds*, but rather a matter for practitioners. *It is not supposed to be lovely or theoretically correct*. I do not care if I give wonderful, aesthetically elegant speeches, or speak so that women cry. The point of a political speech is to persuade people...I speak differently in the provinces than I do in Berlin, and when I speak in Bayreuth, I say different things from what I say in the Pharus Hall. That is a matter of practice, not of theory. We do not want to be a movement of a few straw brains, but rather a movement that can conquer the broad masses. *Propaganda should be popular, not intellectually pleasing.* _It is not the task of propaganda to discover intellectual truths. Those are found in other circumstances_, I find them when thinking at my desk, but not in the meeting hall.


Ironically, the same individual made this accusation thirteen years later:



> The essential English leadership secret *does not depend on particular intelligence. Rather, it depends on a remarkably stupid thick-headedness*. The English follow the principle that when one lies, it should be a big lie, and one should stick to it. They keep up their lies, even at the risk of looking ridiculous.


The fact is, the spreading of deceit _depends_ on masses of people being intellectually incapable of discerning the truth.


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

My point was that insecticides kill bees and beneficial insects. Even the ridiculously paranoid can read a label. My apologies to you, BadBeeKeeper. I should have said "When someone "purposely" tries to deceive you, they have reason to. 
When someone spreads misinformation they believe to be true they are no longer trying to deceive, they are merely ignorant of the facts. 
Ironically, I think you have helped drive my point home.
I believe there is a need for pesticides in agriculture due to the sheer volume of food that has to be produced to feed the world, but I also believe the improper use of these products is the main problem.

Thanks, Alex


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

Raid kills bugs dead. Gotta admit they had a cute ad that appealed to young people. They spent millions convincing people to keep stocked up on Off (lol) and bug killer. 
We all demanded protection when west nile virus came thru. Don't forget the clouds of Asian beetles and the crop duster air force. The crisis is man-made. 

Now lets all load all the bees in the USA and truck them to the Almond groves. It will be fine. (wink wink)


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## Sovek (Apr 27, 2014)

It may be by Bayer, But #3 and #4 are correct, as is the first paragraph. Bee's arnt on the verge of extinction, And the "Decline" is very much an increase as more and more hobby beekeepers enter because they want to "save the bees". IIRC florida is reporting to have more hives ever than when CCD hit. Not to mention I think alot of the problems facing the commercial beeks are somewhat man-made, especially when they take all the honey and replace it with syrup. The other problem as Mike Palmer pointed out in his video on sustainable beekeeping, commercial operations are too reliant on replacing winter losses with package bees or nucs instead from bees from their own apiaries. 

That said, I would like them to cite their claims on the second page there.


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