# 1st trip south



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Nice. Nice looking load.

I know you have your route all planned out and are going the shortest route, but, somehow going from Medina,NY thru KY to FL. Just seems out of the way in my mind.

Sleep tight.


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## CNY_Bees (May 22, 2013)

Looks great. I think you are avoiding all the Beltway traffic..


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

Thanks for posting/sharing.
I've never moved anywhere near that amount and never more than a few miles.
My first "big" trip was around 30 hives and I learned things I never imagined.

I know you've planned for a while.

What has the experience taught you so far?
Are you going to leave the hives and take the trailer and skid home?
Did you consider renting one to unload and leaving your trailer?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

CNY_Bees said:


> Looks great. I think you are avoiding all the Beltway traffic..


I never go south by way of Baltimore or Washington Beltways. Stick w/ 81 down into VA and cut across to 95 from Winchester to Falmoth, then down 95 into SC.


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## Slow Modem (Oct 6, 2011)

Hope you have a safe and enjoyable trip!


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## scokat (Apr 19, 2011)

Tried to Rent Skid Steerbut 300 a day so will haul. trailer and skid back..


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Considering what you need it for, that would probably come out to $150.00/hour. I know where you are at w/ the need of a skidsteer loader.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Looks good. 300 seems a bit steep. In Ga I can rent one for 130 for 1 day. Im sure your truck handles that load fine, but how do you feel driving it down the road?


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## scokat (Apr 19, 2011)

well we arrived today at 5pm, unloaded and chatted for awhile. We just got to the hotel for the night. The local beek is going to work the hives with his for part of the splits. He is going to put honey supers on for tupelo. It turns out a supplier guy down the road builds pallets for $20, out of pressure treated with clips, sells boxes assembled and painted for $9, and frames assembled for around $2. So i dont have to haul all the new equipment back down in the spring for splits if i dont feel like it.

As far as the trip, it was not bad at all, the truck handled the load fine, but a bigger truck would be nice, and the mrs said she is not making the trip again in our "small" truck. So she has been surfing looking at bigger used trucks. 

As far as DOT, they were everywhere but wanted nothing to do with me. I only encountered 2 open weigh stations and I was green arrowed right through.

BMAC, did you take your road test? how did it go?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Good report. Is the Mrs. going to buy the truck? Will she drive it too?


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## matt1954 (Sep 8, 2010)

Who is the guy who makes pallets for $20,00? I would love to pick some up while I am down there.


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## VolunteerK9 (Aug 19, 2011)

Scoot on over. Going go try to build my numbers this spring go make that trip next year. Not sure if you said it already but how many colonies are you shipping ? Just looking for a rough estimate that would make it worth my while.


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## scokat (Apr 19, 2011)

she probably will on both questions, as she does the same thing I do. its all a matter of time and money.....



sqkcrk said:


> Good report. Is the Mrs. going to buy the truck? Will she drive it too?


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## scokat (Apr 19, 2011)

VolunteerK9 said:


> Scoot on over. Going go try to build my numbers this spring go make that trip next year. Not sure if you said it already but how many colonies are you shipping ? Just looking for a rough estimate that would make it worth my while.



I brought 60 down this trip.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

scokat said:


> she probably will on both questions, as she does the same thing I do. its all a matter of time and money.....


Nice. When two are pulling in the same direction the trip is much easier and enjoyable. Congratulations.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

scokat said:


> BMAC, did you take your road test? how did it go?


I did road test a week ago. P = Passed right. So the evaluator was a bit different and raced thru the entire road test. He abrupted everything from brake test to completely skipping inside inspection. Even while on the course he kept telling me pedal to the metal when I was driving only 5 MPH below posted limits. It went well though and I am headed today back to DMV for Lic.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

scokat said:


> As far as the trip, it was not bad at all, the truck handled the load fine, but a bigger truck would be nice, and the mrs said she is not making the trip again in our "small" truck. So she has been surfing looking at bigger used trucks.


 So how big of a truck is she looking at? 10 Wheeler with a sleeper?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

BMAC said:


> I did road test a week ago. P = Passed right. So the evaluator was a bit different and raced thru the entire road test. He abrupted everything from brake test to completely skipping inside inspection. Even while on the course he kept telling me pedal to the metal when I was driving only 5 MPH below posted limits. It went well though and I am headed today back to DMV for Lic.


Now you can run legal, right? 

Upgrading to a bigger truck? Rig?


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Run Legal? If those inspectors really dig on almost any vehicle they will find something illegal. Atleast now I wont be driving out of class. As far as upgrading. I am not sure yet. I talked with a local guy that just retired and put his Peterbuilt up for sale. Unfornately his trailer is a lowboy and Im not sure I want to get into the trucking business. You never know. I might buy his truck and go buy a step deck trailer. If I do atleast I will not have to wait on driver availability anymore for running the bees.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

That's what I meant. Now you are not out of class. You have a "neighbor" who runs a ten wheeler. A beekeeper. If I can recall his name I'll PM you.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Must must mean other than Chuck. I know there is a migratory guy from Maine in the area that has a 10 wheeler and complimentary trailer to go with it so he can haul a semi load. I talked to him once years ago but dont recall his name. Lynn gave me his name and number. So I have been considering an older Ford L9000 with a 27' bed 10 wheeler. Maybe in the spring time.


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## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

If I may, seems you are running up a lot of costs and is there profit in this?????

Topelo honey that good a price???


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Does he have to go after Tupelo honey?

Wouldnt it be worth the trip down and back if he turned his 60 hives into 150 hives and have them ready to run honey here by mid May?


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## flbee (Jan 13, 2011)

Who is the Guy that sells pallets and boxes.?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

mgolden said:


> If I may, seems you are running up a lot of costs and is there profit in this?????
> 
> Topelo honey that good a price???


It's just the start of their next step in life. They are feeling their way and learning the ropes. It's an investment for the future. Maybe no profit now, but there will be in the future. I have a feeling. scokat seems pretty thorough at what he does.


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> It's just the start of their next step in life. They are feeling their way and learning the ropes. It's an investment for the future. Maybe no profit now, but there will be in the future. I have a feeling. scokat seems pretty thorough at what he does.


My internet beekeeping skills ( as opposed to real life beekeeping skills) :lpf: tells me there might be a decent profit with some "if's" thrown in. I'm interested what is learned from the trip and I bet he is as well.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

scokat said:


> It turns out a supplier guy down the road builds pallets for $20, ...


As you can tell by all of the responses $20.00 is cheap. As I can tell by your Posts and your rig, you know that cheaper is not always better. I'd look those pallets out real well. If they are not as good as your own, I'd walk away. And they should be as close to the same as your own as they can be or you might find them a pain rather than a benefit.

At this stage of the game you really aught to stick to a standard in everything you do. Buy or build one kind and size of pallet. Run your hives in two deeps or a deep plus medium, but no matter what, all of them. Make all of your covers the same.

All of that goes to being able to load your trailer evenly, which translates to safely. Standardize w/in your beekeeping operation. You'll be glad you did.

I've seen some really funky loads which could have, and should have, fallen off the truck. And we don't want that now, do we?


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## scokat (Apr 19, 2011)

I learn something new everyday, whether it be from people or a sting in a special place. I will check out the pallets to see if they conform, i already discussed it with the local guy. I designed all my pallets and tops so they lock into each other when loaded. I know exactly what you mean to keep everything the same, not just for conformity but for ease of operation and loading. I read everything you commercial guys have posted over the years and grab what i can use and put the rest of the info in the memory bank. 

Right now there are more funds going out than coming in but we figured that was going to happen until we got enough hives to sustain the operation. Im lucky enough that the wife and I have worked a few years where we are not reliant on income from the bees right now at the beginning. And as you said Mark, i learned early in life not to go cheap if you want to rely on something. I took into account the cost of fuel down and back several trips, and my time. For the amount of splits I will get by the end of april, i couldn't purchase that many nucs for the cost of fuel spent on the trips.

As for the truck i am leaning towards a big truck trailer combo, must have a sleeper, nothing fancy. it could be a straight truck/sleeper with a trailer, but will probably be a big rig and flatbed. I know, some will say way overkill but after i transport my bees in the fall i can move other bee loads if there is a need. Also i can do local loads to occupy my time during the winter. I have driven big trucks over the past 29 yrs when needed or directed, so i'm not completely green. I am applying for combat vet patriot assistance which gives low interest loans and grants to disabled vets to assist with additional needed equipment. I have to give them a business plan and do some paperwork, but hopefully it will help with the equipment, if not as I always say to the wife "work more overtime". (she has overtime at work I am not allowed)

anyway, we made it to lexington, kentucky tonite, off to NY in the am.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

I'm not about to knock what others have found works for them but I come at this from a different angle. We have the advantage of economy of scale and use smaller trucks to pool/load and unload/distribute on each end. A double can be hauled 1,000 miles on a fully loaded semi for between 5 and 6 dollars per hive. I understand that it takes a lot of equipment and manpower to get to this point but it's pretty much the model that all the large commercials I know are using. I don't even want to own a big rig because with fuel at around $4.00 you can't afford to run them empty and to make it work you must be dedicated to doing backhauls which would not only cause delays and distractions but it opens you up to a whole new realm of trucking regulations. I would just as soon leave the trucking to dedicated truckers. We usually make one round trip per small straight truck per year (loaded with something of course) and then commute back and forth as needed in a car that gets about 30 mpg.....and we don't have to stop at scales.


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## scokat (Apr 19, 2011)

jim,

true all points to consider, options are open and we are exploring to see what we can work with.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Mr. Lyon is right. My son and I also maintain a small fleet of mostly Mack dump trucks that gross 73,000 lbs. There is alot to know in that world if you are not running a newer truck that still has a warranty. An older truck that sees infrequent miles can actually have more problems than one that is used daily. Do what you do best, leave the trucking to the truckers.

Crazy Roland


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

jim lyon said:


> I'm not about to knock what others have found works for them but I come at this from a different angle. We have the advantage of economy of scale and use smaller trucks to pool/load and unload/distribute on each end. A double can be hauled 1,000 miles on a fully loaded semi for between 5 and 6 dollars per hive. I understand that it takes a lot of equipment and manpower to get to this point but it's pretty much the model that all the large commercials I know are using. I don't even want to own a big rig because with fuel at around $4.00 you can't afford to run them empty and to make it work you must be dedicated to doing backhauls which would not only cause delays and distractions but it opens you up to a whole new realm of trucking regulations. I would just as soon leave the trucking to dedicated truckers. We usually make one round trip per small straight truck per year (loaded with something of course) and then commute back and forth as needed in a car that gets about 30 mpg.....and we don't have to stop at scales.


We all started from somewhere w/ what we had, in our own way.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Roland said:


> Do what you do best, leave the trucking to the truckers.
> 
> Crazy Roland


Which is what he is doing. I think both you and Jim would agree that shipping 60 hives on a semi and following it south w/ a half empty trailer and his Bobcat would be highly inefficient and costly.


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## scokat (Apr 19, 2011)

Back home, left lexington, KY at 0800, just rolled up the driveway 1700, unloaded the truck ordered pizza and wings, gonna relax, have some rum(more than a splash) with a splash of coke and relax. Will figure out fuel cost and total trip cost to see what i need in splits to break even and what will put me ahead, that is, if everything goes good with the splits, weather and winter survival.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Sqkcrk corrected me when he wrote:

I think both you and Jim would agree that shipping 60 hives on a semi and following it south w/ a half empty trailer and his Bobcat would be highly inefficient and costly.

I was wrong. My definition of a truck is that it has air brakes and no synchros( I do not acknowledge Allison's). They take a different skill set to maintain and to operate well. If you need to move 100's of hives, they are the proper tool. A pickup(not a truck by my definition) is the proper tool to move 60 hives. Choose the right tool and operator for the job.

Crazy Roland


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## scokat (Apr 19, 2011)

had time to tally total Round trip cost - $900 for fuel food and hotel. so i will have to double that cost for the return trip in the spring, maybe two trips in the spring. So figure an even $2000 for two round trips, which would be 16.6 nucs at 120 each. so if i can split 60 hives to 120 which would be an additional $7200 expense if i had to buy the additional nucs, leaves me way ahead of the game for expansion with minimum monetary investment, not counting boxes, frames, and pallets.

Now as for the trip:

top boards: made all the difference in the world for holding down the hives.

i used shade cloth/netting as my nets. i rolled the extra netting under the sides of the pallets before strapping them down. this worked ok, but upon removing the nets there were dead bees all along the bottom where the netting was pushed under the pallets. how do you all attach and hold down the nets? how are they secured to the side of the truck or pallets? Do you all have single dead bees laying around the truck bed upon arrival? it just seemed like alot of dead bees. the hives were still good, but it just seemed like alot of dead bees.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

It always seems like a lot of dead bees to me too. But I don't know how to avoid them. Air ride suspension could help. If you could justify the expense.

Any chance of leaving your skidsteer home in the Spring? Then maybe you could bring everything north on one load. But probably not unless you were really working w/ someone else.

When I run south and north to SC and back I figure $1,000.00 for fuel, $160.00 motel expense, and $100.00 to $150.00 meals, round trip. Not including the expenses of the days I spend in SC. So I think your figures are just about right. You could shave off some meal expenses carrying meals like BMAC does. Sleeping in your truck would cut some of the expense too. Just pouinting it out, not a recommendation.

Good report.


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## scokat (Apr 19, 2011)

i am trying to locate a skid I can rent, i dont want to haul that back and forth anymore. I saved money on hotels due to having 750,000 hilton points, so that will help for awhile anyway. I found a cheap old local skid, if i can work a deal i thought about trading an old tractor for the skid and leaving it down there if nothing else. I have a few months to try and work out the kinks. i can use all the advise anyone can post.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Okay. You don't need an 800m series Bobcat. I have a 753 which lifts 1100 lbs. Your must lift more than that. A 600 series would do you fine for loading your trailer. My 753 is too light when it comes to unloading some semis. Maybe you could trade your machine for a lighter one. Less weight for the trailer.

Do you have 4 ft forks on your head board? I like the 4 footers. I can unload my truck from one side of the truck if I need to. Comes in handy.


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## scokat (Apr 19, 2011)

i use this skid to move 1 ton pallets of wood pellets, and lift them up on pallet racks in my barn. I do have the bobcat 4 ft forks and they are nice. I will give this some thought as i need to think about my pickup. Its a great truck, but sooner or later i will need a 450, or 550 or straight truck. This was purchased for our farm, pulling my flatbeds and the gooseneck. I move my tractors, dozer and skid as needed to accomplish work around. I can move 150 hives on the gooseneck with this truck, which i bought new. I can sell this truck and get a good used bigger truck and old pickup possibly. I guess i need to do some thinking about what will work for our future business plan. I have always had to rely on myself for anything i needed, so if i needed to do something i went out and bought the proper equipment to do the job. So with the expansion into a larger operation, will I need a different truck to accommodate the future? I refuse to borrow someones equipment, so i end up acquiring my own and maintain it in good working order so i know i can depend on it when needed. :scratch:


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Dont borrow someones gear. Rent it from them. It can come in handy once in a while especially in a pinch! I think you would be happier with a larger truck. I love my new 5500 for work in the yards, but I agree with Roland. Looking forward to buying a 10 wheeler with air ride if I keep hauling my own bees, which I probably will cause I hate waiting on others schedules to delay my bees moving. To me thats worth hauling my own bees even with the added truck maintenance. Great report and yes I do like to bring my own meals. My favorite meal on the road is egg salad sandwiches by wife makes me. Now Mark my new truck only has full bench in the back and it really is a full bench so I will have to see how comfortable that is on the way to Ga this winter with my bees. The front seats are the typical Dodge 60/40 split and I cant sleep across them. Although the front seat does recline enough to sleep that way so if the back is too uncomfortable I will use the front seat. I always like seeing just how little money it takes me to acomplish stuff.


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## MTINAZ (Jan 15, 2010)

Good report. I have been in a similar situation for a while now, moving bees with a f350. It is a bit of a pain but so far I have been able to rent a skid steer or forklift everywhere I have been at a much cheaper rents. Talk to the farmers and small independent concrete, tree service, landscaping people. They often have the equipment, will run it themselves and always seem willing to make an extra buck. BMAC I have spent more nights than I care to admit on the back seat of my ford. I found a thermarest camping pad on the seat helps a ton.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

My knees wake me up several times a night when I have tried to sleep in my truck. And there's the sleep apnia machine to consider. Don't sleep at all; w/out it anymore, not really.


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## scokat (Apr 19, 2011)

just got off the phone with my Fl counterpart. He's working on locating a Skid to rent, also he went through the hives and 4 of the weak ones were deadouts, so I have 52 left out of 56 that went down. I forgot i left 4 double nucs up in ny for the winter. Changed the oil on the truck and did a lube job. I annotated the work order/repair log I maintain for DOT, anything else I need to do for compliance before my safety audit?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Safety audit? Uh oh.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

sqkcrk said:


> Safety audit? Uh oh.


:s I sure am enjoying these threads.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

scokat said:


> I annotated the work order/repair log I maintain for DOT, anything else I need to do for compliance before my safety audit?


Hats off to you. They want to see receipts. They could care less about seeing receipts for say a brake job, but are really concerned with oil changes. Interestingly enough apparently if we regularly chage our oil we MUST do the rest of the needed maintenance on our stuff. Is that stereotyping???? Wow my state is profiling me!


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I never carry anything indicating maintenance? DOT guys really ask for that sort of thing? What if you don't have anything? What if you never change your oil?


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

BMAC said:


> Hats off to you. They want to see receipts. They could care less about seeing receipts for say a brake job, but are really concerned with oil changes. Interestingly enough apparently if we regularly chage our oil we MUST do the rest of the needed maintenance on our stuff. Is that stereotyping???? Wow my state is profiling me!


Lights, brakes, glass yes but now oil changes intervals have become a safety issue?


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

sqkcrk said:


> I never carry anything indicating maintenance? DOT guys really ask for that sort of thing? What if you don't have anything? What if you never change your oil?


 Well if you have a safety audit and can't prove you change your oil via paperwork (annotating it isnt good enough, inspector wants paid receipts) then you will be dinged on vehicle maintenance. Make sure your logbook is in order as well. The safety auditor didn't even care about my truck and trailers. Just wanted to see all my paperwork for trips. He even asked for fuel receipts and checked fuel times against my logbook to ensure I wasn't driving more hours than I should and make sure my logbook was accurately documented.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

What does maintenance have to do w/ safety?

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "safety audit". What's that?


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Safety audit is when DOT auditor/Officer comes out and scrubs thru your paperwork. They just want to ensure you are properly documenting your travels and saving your receipts. They give you a score which is then associated with your DOT number. The guy told me I should only ever see him once unless I have an accident or start getting tickets at DOT stations. Like most audits, its just a paperwork drill. 

As far as maintenance and safety? They actually do go hand in hand. If you have steel belts showing on your tires its a safety issue to run that vehicle down the road. Replacing that tire is vehicle maintenance. Steering, suspension, lighting, brake system maintenance is all safety. I'm not convinced changing your oil has anything to do with safety. It has to do with longevity of your engine. It could lead up to possible engine seazing while running down the road, but engines low on oil give signals somethings wrong. For example 7.3 powerstrokes high pressure oil pump is OIL driven so when you get too low on oil the engine shuts down. Not sure if your 6.0 is the same Mark.


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## scokat (Apr 19, 2011)

the safety audit until recently was conducted at your place of business within 18 months of aquiring your DOT #. Now however they have moved up the time frame and try to get it done as soon as possible to get rid of the back log.

"New-Entrant Program
All first-time carrier applicants for a USDOT Number will be automatically enrolled in the FMCSA New Entrant Safety Assurance Program. This program requires new entrants to pass a safety audit and maintain acceptable roadside safety performance over an initial 18-month period before they are given permanent registration status."


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

BMAC said:


> Safety audit is when DOT auditor/Officer comes out and scrubs thru your paperwork. They just want to ensure you are properly documenting your travels and saving your receipts. They give you a score which is then associated with your DOT number. The guy told me I should only ever see him once unless I have an accident or start getting tickets at DOT stations. Like most audits, its just a paperwork drill.
> 
> As far as maintenance and safety? They actually do go hand in hand. If you have steel belts showing on your tires its a safety issue to run that vehicle down the road. Replacing that tire is vehicle maintenance. Steering, suspension, lighting, brake system maintenance is all safety. I'm not convinced changing your oil has anything to do with safety. It has to do with longevity of your engine. It could lead up to possible engine seazing while running down the road, but engines low on oil give signals somethings wrong. For example 7.3 powerstrokes high pressure oil pump is OIL driven so when you get too low on oil the engine shuts down. Not sure if your 6.0 is the same Mark.


Why does DOT care if you keep your receipts?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Do you suppose that the NSA passes Threads like these on to USDOT?


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