# Any problems with your commercial vaporizor?



## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

My opinion is that those mentioned above are reasonable choices.

I would avoid those (such as a certain model currently offered on Ebay) that are underpowered. Those mentioned in post #1 are all around 150 watts. The one I looked at on Ebay is about _half _that wattage. Read carefully.


----------



## dudelt (Mar 18, 2013)

I bought the Varrocleaner last year from Oxvap. Worked like a charm. For the less than 10 hives I have I did not think spending $40.00 more for the Varrox was worth the extra money. The gentleman that sells them is a regular here on the forum and it is a good sign that I have not read any real customer service complaints either. If there were any, you can bet they would be spouting off like a politician all over this forum.


----------



## WillH (Jun 25, 2010)

D-man said:


> I currently only have 2 hive, one of which has started having some deformed wings.


Brood is emerging with DWV. If I was in that situation I would use Apivar not OA.


----------



## D-man (Dec 3, 2014)

WillH said:


> Brood is emerging with DWV. If I was in that situation I would use Apivar not OA.


Why? Not questioning your assessment but still learning here. How soon can I put supers on after apivar? What does it do that oa doesn't, kill mites in capped brood? Still learning here, thanks for your patience.


----------



## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

From the Apivar Website:

*7. Can I treat whenever I want during the year?*
From a regulatory point of view, Apivar can be used all year round. Nevertheless, in accordance with good beekeeping practice, we recommend to treat when honey supers are not present. This would be the best way to convey a good image for honey as a natural product. As a consequence, strips should be removed before the main nectar-collecting period in the spring and can be placed into the hive after harvesting during summer.

Apivar works by contact only, it does not kill those in the brood..........

Here's a link: http://www.apivar.co.nz/FAQs.htm


----------



## D-man (Dec 3, 2014)

How would Apivar be better than multiple treatments of OA 5 to 7 days apart? I am just N of the FL line and suspect a nectar to start soon.


----------



## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Their website states that it lasts "over several brood periods." I have no experience with it, just quoting from their site. I use OA.


----------



## WillH (Jun 25, 2010)

D-man said:


> How soon can I put supers on after apivar?


2 weeks. If you are seeing DW this early, it may not build up enough to need honey supers.




D-man said:


> What does it do that oa doesn't, kill mites in capped brood?


More efficient delivery. More effective agent. Oxalic is not even approved for use. (I am not advertising Apivar. Speaking from my experience)



D-man said:


> Still learning here, thanks for your patience.


Exactly the reason for my comments. I hate someone starting out get discouraged.


----------



## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

I have the Varroacleaner that I purchased in Dec. 2013 fom SNL. (He made an extra effort to get it out to me very fast, making a special trip to his PO just for that.) I am happy with it - and with OAV as a treatment, though I have only done two treatments with it. 

I think that because I am so happy with OAV method that it might have been a good idea to get the Varrox model from SNL, even though it is more expensive. The Varroacleaner is made in eastern Europe and while it works just fine I have to keep making sure the burn cup is firmly screwed on to the wand, otherwise it tends to loosen up in a way that makes it not work as well as it should. It's just something I have to keep checking between each hive. I would imagine that the more epensive tool doesn't do this. But who knows?

Either way I would recommend SNL's customer service 100%, no matter which wand you decide on.

But I've been studying the draft regs that may be about to emerge from the EPA about the use of OAV and it appears that *vaporization method * may require the use of a slightly more expensive respirator than has been suggested previously. Before I got my mask I had concluded that a mask with ACID GAS cartridges was the correct one to choose (not the same as the N95 one that has been suggested before), so that's what I got. The draft of the human health analysis that is being circulated also recommends that the mask have acid gas cartridges (as well as particulate protection, which is a given with good quality cartridges from 3M, MSA, etc.) This boosts (if the draft regs are adopted as written.) the cost of safe OAV use up a bit. 

Last Fall, I got my mask and cartridges from a combination of purchases at Lowes and Home Depot (mask which is supplied with the wrong cartridges at one and the correct cartridges at the other). In all it cost about $60 for the mask and another $25 for the cartridges. I did not shop around as I was pressed for time, so I expect some time spent doing that would bring the cost down.

So if cost is a make or break factor, then I would go with the less-expensive Varroacleaner wand and spend the money for the correct mask and cartridges. Given that you can buy the chemical to do the treatment for scores of hives for less than $10, the overall equipment and protective gear costs still seem to be reasonable.

Doing the treatments is easy, and it really knocks the heck out of the mites. 

Enj.


----------



## cana (Mar 7, 2012)

i got one from the fat bee man works great the best money i have spent to kill the mites


----------



## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

You can always make your own much cheaper!


----------



## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

D-man said:


> I have toyed with the idea of making my own but figure even though money is a little tight right now $100+/- is a small investment over the long-term. I know there are a couple out there that I have seen Varrocleaner, Varrox, and JB200.


It you want to save your hives, then don't mess around with a homemade vaporizer. JMHO, not worth the risk. Purchase one of the three you mentioned. From experience I know the JB200 and Varrox are very good, I've used them and would recommend either one. The Varrox costs a little more but the construction seems to be a bit more sturdy for long term use.

Compare the price of a vaporizer vs. the cost of two packages to replace your bees.


----------



## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

There are people making vaporizers that do the same exact thing and just as good of job as the ones you mention.


----------



## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

That's true, there are many who build their own vaporizers and have great success with them. But there are also those who build their own incorrectly and it doesn't work out so well. It all boils down to the risk you are willing to take. I guess I'm not much of a gambler, I would rather invest in a tool I "know" works correctly rather than taking a chance and hoping it works out. I'm kind of a wimp that way ... I'll spend a few extra dollars for a guarantee that something will work. There's too much at stake.


----------



## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

I think to building a good vaporizer you need to look at what others have done and learn from their mistakes.Building my first one my mistake was not paying attention to the glow plug I was given at the parts house.I ask for a 1104 autolite glow plug and was given an 1108 autolite glow plug.A few seconds was all those will take.When I found the mistake it was too late.Anyway I know an 1104 Autolite glow plug is one that will work if anyone is thinking of building their own.My parts list was 3/4" copper pipe I split and flattened.That was the only copper I had handy so it was free.A 5/16" x 24" all thread with a couple nuts to go with it.The 1104 glow plug and some 10 ga.stranded wire.Oh and some lead free solder.Much much much cheaper than the $150 some charge.Mine may not be near as pretty but hey the bees dont care what it looks like.Just as soon as I can get a warmer day I plan on making several more so I can do several hives at the same time.


----------



## BudsBees (Mar 10, 2013)

I build and make OAV. You have to get the amps, wire size, and you pan right or they will not work. The ones I make take 1-1/2-2 min. to have a complete burn. They look as good as any ones I've seen.


----------



## Levi's Bees (Feb 7, 2014)

do u have pictures of the one's u make ??? budsbees and the price


----------



## BudsBees (Mar 10, 2013)

Our computer won't let me put pics on here, but you can go to my profile pic or my fb page (Bud Willis) and see it





































































.


----------



## kramerbryan (Oct 30, 2013)

The OP is about problems with commercial vaporizers, not a show and tell on homemade models. I bought the Varrox and am very pleased with it.


----------



## BudsBees (Mar 10, 2013)

It my be home made but they look and work as good as the one you bought and I sell alot of these


----------



## BudsBees (Mar 10, 2013)

D-man I'm in Cairo I might be able to help you out with the Vap


----------



## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

I've used Apiguard to control mites in my dozen-odd hives. It works well under the correct temperature conditions. The nice thing about Apiguard is you just slip it in your hive. Very easy. Downside is cost.

I first started doing OAV with a Varrocleaner in 2013. I chose the Varrocleaner because I have short entrances to my hives and the Varrocleaner pan was thin enough to just slide right in the entrance. I set a up an on/off switch on an extension cord, and hook the extension cord to my car battery. I got just as good mite kills with the Varrocleaner as with the Apiguard, and the OAV application disturbed the hive less than the Apiguard application. I would dip the Varrocleaner in water after each application to cool and clean the pan. Problem was the pan on the Varrocleaner started to come loose after about three dozen applications. Talking to the seller, we decided that the Varrocleaner wasn't designed to be fully immersed in water while still hot. Best to let the Varrocleaner cool in the air or just touch it to a wet rag or sponge. This is fine if you just a few hives to treat.

The seller kindly exchanged my Varrocleaner for the more strongly built Varrox. Very good customer service from the seller. The Varrox pan is a little taller than the Varrocleaner pan, and so I use my hive tool to slightly lever up the boxes to slide it into the hive. The Varrox has worked very well for me. With both the Varrocleaner and the Varrox, the OA vapor absolutely hammers the mites for just pennies. I've never had a problem with the OA hurting the workers nor the queen. Downside is the initial up front cost of the vaporizing equipment and OAVing is a little more labor intensive then simply inserting a tin of Apiguard into a hive. OA is well worth it, IMHO.

Last year was my second year using OAV. I had much fewer mites last year than the previous year when I first started using OAV. I attribute this to how effective OAV is. In other words, the first year the OAV knocked the mite population down enough that, while I still had mites the following year, the mite population was still pretty low throughout the year. Last year I treated after pulling the honey supers, and then again in late Fall while the colonies were broodless. I am still fine tuning my OA treatment schedule, but, I am thinking I may be able to get by with just one good OAV treatment each year in late Fall on broodless hives.

I can see making your own vaporizer for fun, but that looks like just a big time-suck to me. If you want to kill mites, why reinvent the wheel? And if you want to invent something, invent something new rather than what has already been done before.


Mite fall after one application of OAV:

















.


----------



## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

Maybe not the best place to ask this question, but tough to pass on the opportunity to discuss it with so many already OAV users.

When is the best time to treat using OAV?

I'm going to use it for the first time this year. Typically, I've treated for mites using some type of flash treatment (MAQS) about 2 weeks before our main honey flow (usually April 1) to knock some of the mites down, then a longer treatment period (Apivar) starting in August and running till completion. But both had temp restrictions on their available use, which usually meant I couldn't use the MAQS any earlier than I did. 

So would it be better to do one flash treatment in March, then do another set of treatments after the supers come off? Or would it be better to do one flash treatment earlier (say January or now) when there is less brood present?


----------



## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

The very best time to use OAV is when the hive is broodless. OAV only kills phoretic mites. When the hive is broodess all the mites are on the bees and you'll kill better than 95% of them.
You could do a treatment now when the temps are above 37, but again you'll only get the phoretic mites. If the hive is heavily brooded, then either a series of OAV treatments or Apivar............


----------



## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

snl said:


> You could do a treatment now when the temps are above 37,


Do the temps have to only be above 37 at the time that you treat, or do they have to stay above 37 for some period of time?

For example, yesterday was in the 50's, but at night it dropped down to the 20's and should stay in the mid 30's all week. Was it safe to treat yesterday?

So, as a strategy if it is wiser to hit the hive at a time when there is less (or no brood), reason would tell me my best treatment times are:
1) Late winter when brood is low but temps are high enough, to give them as few mites as possible going into spring, then hang on tight for the spring flow, and
2) Wait till I get my nectar dearth in July, then do a series of 2 or 3 treatments spread out a couple weeks apart.

Sound about right?


----------



## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

Specialkayme said:


> 1) Late winter when brood is low but temps are high enough, to give them as few mites as possible going into spring, then hang on tight for the spring flow, and
> 2) Wait till I get my nectar dearth in July, then do a series of 2 or 3 treatments spread out a couple weeks apart.
> 
> Sound about right?


1) Once you get on schedule, a single treatment sometime around Thanksgiving when the hive is broodless cleans up the mites pretty well for spring. I would guess your broodless period in NC is sometime between Thanksgiving and Christmas??

2) When you hit your dearth in July-August you should do a series of 4 treatments - 5 days apart ... or 3 treatments - 7 days apart if you can't get to them every 5 days.

If you suspect your colonies might have high mite loads this year going into spring, do a series of treatments before you add your supers. Just count back about 3 weeks from the date you plan to add supers and start the treatments up then.

Temperatures: In cool weather, I find it's best to do the treatments in the afternoon or evening when the temperature is up and all the bees are in. It doesn't matter if the temps fall over night, as long as they are vaporized at the warmest time of the day and the cluster is loose. In the middle of summer it really doesn't matter morning or evening. In the summer time I prefer early morning before they start to leave the hive.


----------



## Waggle (Mar 7, 2013)

The head on the varrocleaner comes loose after a couple of dozen uses, I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that it dosn't fail, I can't afford another one. I would reccommend buying the more expensive model, it looks to be built better.


----------



## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

If it fails, send it back and I'll either replace it or let you upgrade to the Varrox. The new Varrocleaners have a newly designed method of attachment.


----------



## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Specialkayme said:


> Do the temps have to only be above 37 at the time that you treat, or do they have to stay above 37 for some period of time?
> 
> For example, yesterday was in the 50's, but at night it dropped down to the 20's and should stay in the mid 30's all week. Was it safe to treat yesterday?


Sure was. An hour or two above 37 will do it!


----------



## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

I have a varrox and it chugs along just.


----------



## kkauf (Jan 13, 2014)

BudsBees said:


> I build and make OAV. You have to get the amps, wire size, and you pan right or they will not work. The ones I make take 1-1/2-2 min. to have a complete burn. They look as good as any ones I've seen.


Bud, 
Would you give some specifics on your vaporizer. Pan dimensions, wire size, glow plug etc.


----------



## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

Mike Gillmore said:


> 1) Once you get on schedule, a single treatment sometime around Thanksgiving when the hive is broodless cleans up the mites pretty well for spring. I would guess your broodless period in NC is sometime between Thanksgiving and Christmas??


Usually the broodless period is somewhere between Thanksgiving and Christmas. 

It would be nice to do a single treatment in December and then not have to worry about it again until September. . . 

Thanks for the input Mike. Very helpful.

I'll probably do 3 treatments 3 weeks apart in the next three weeks. That should put me in good shape for an end of March super date.


----------



## BudsBees (Mar 10, 2013)

kkauf sent you a pm


----------



## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

Specialkayme said:


> I'll probably do 3 treatments 3 weeks apart in the next three weeks. That should put me in good shape for an end of March super date.


The standard treatment regimen is 3 treatments 7 days apart. However, I would suggest if your schedule allows, 4 treatments 5 days apart is more effective. 3 weeks between treatments would substantially reduce the efficacy, I would think.


----------



## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

I made several different kinds, when I treated. They all worked just fine and cost me just about nothing 
A stainless tube with a propane torch was the easiest to carry around from hive to hive.
Glow plug in a stainless tube worked fine too but you need to drag a power source and wires around with you.

100 bucks for a glow plug and piece of aluminum never seemed like a fair deal to me.

If you are even thinking about it then just make your own, you really can't go wrong. 
Watch a few youtube videos for ideas, search "DIY oxalic vaporizers" here and on google.

You will be surprised how easy it is to make one.


----------



## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

shinbone said:


> 3 weeks between treatments would substantially reduce the efficacy, I would think.


Sorry, I meant 3 treatments over the course of 3 weeks, not 3 weeks between each treatment.

My mistake.

I would like to do 4 treatments over 20 days, but I don't know if I'll be able to make it to the outyards when there is daylight (and temps are above 37) on a 5 day rotation. Weekend visits provide significantly more flexibility.


----------



## BudsBees (Mar 10, 2013)

your not just paying 100 for a glow plug and a piece of alum. You paying to build it,, wire, battery clamps,measuring scoop, connects handle, just to name a few things it takes to build.


----------



## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

BudsBees said:


> your not just paying 100 for a glow plug and a piece of alum. You paying to build it,, wire, battery clamps,measuring scoop, connects handle, just to name a few things it takes to build.


wire $0.55
2 ea battery clamps $0.59 
medal rod $2.64
Plastic spoon $0.01

http://www.amazon.com/20ga-Red-Blac...3?ie=UTF8&qid=1424870385&sr=8-3&keywords=wire
http://www.amazon.com/Copper-Plated...&qid=1424870185&sr=8-2&keywords=battery+clamp
http://www.amazon.com/Threaded-Plat...TF8&qid=1424870799&sr=8-1&keywords=all+thread

Your right. You are paying $100.00 for a glow plug a piece of aluminum and *3.78 *worth of parts.


----------



## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

You forgot to add the glow plug is only $10 also.


----------



## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)

FlowerPlanter said:


> You are paying $100.00


You're paying for a tool that works compared to a self-build source of annoyance. Guess how I know.


----------



## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

Now how can you say that? There are a bunch of people building their own that work just as good.Some are a lots prettier than the store bought jobs but they work fine just the same and at a much cheaper price.Not everyone out there has the extra to spend on these high dollar jobs.


----------



## mhpsau (Jan 27, 2015)

Just received my varrocleaner in the mail yesterday. I will be using it on new swarms as I Hive them. Last year all the swarms (From a large commercial operation) were heavy with mites, and I lost two hives because of them. So this year, I will OA a few days after putting them in their new home. And thanks to snl for the quick delivery.


----------



## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

mhpsau said:


> I will OA a few days after putting them in their new home.


Make sure you have some open brood first to keep the bees fixed. If the swarm has a virgin queen it may be more than a few days before you find any brood. You don't want them absconding by vaporizing too early. Just be sure to vaporizes before any brood is sealed.


----------



## mhpsau (Jan 27, 2015)

Thanks for the heads up Mike. Will surely keep that in mind. Swarms will probably be starting in the next week or two. Caught 5 in 5 days around the 10-15 of march last year. Thanks again.


----------



## WWW (Feb 6, 2011)

snapper1d said:


> Not everyone out there has the extra to spend on these high dollar jobs.


This is true however not everyone out there has the talent to build a vaporizer, whether you purchase one or build one is up to the individual's ability and needs at the time.

As for the OP's original question, several years ago when I decided to go to a three deep brood nest I then realized that my Heilyser JB200 wasn't going work with this configuration because it is designed for vaporizing a maximum of two deep brood box's. At this point I had to redesign and build a new 3 gram pan for it, this bigger capacity pan works great, I have been using it for several years now. 

MY overall assessment of the JB200 is that it is a lightweight easy to use vaporizer and I have been impressed with how it has held up under use, I just wish they would have made the pan capacity larger, the original design has just barely enough capacity for two grams. If the Heilyser company is reading this thread I hope they consider enlarging the pan just a bit, it would be a big improvement.

The original Heilyser 2 gram pan is at the far left and my redesigned 3 gram pan is on the far right with a new spare 3 gram pan in the middle.


----------



## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

It doesnt take a whole lot of talent to build one.They are all built with basic parts.The pan can be built from copper which can be easily bent into shape and it conducts heat well also.The glow plug can be an Autolite 1104 glow plug which will give all the heat you need to do the job without burning out real quick.The wire,well you can get all the 10 ga. stranded wire you want at an electrical supply or auto parts house.The all thread at any hardware store.I built one on the cheap an showed how I built it and I am using it with no problems at all and plan to build 5 more so I can do 5 hives and move from one to the next on to the next and when I disconnect from the last one the first one will be ready to start again.Mine is not pretty like the ones with aluminum cnc cut pans which most have no way to make but my copper homemade pan works fine.I thought beekeepers here were all about helping other beekeepers but I see lots of discouraging on building your on cheap OAV.If you build them for sale thats fine for people who have the extra dollars to spend.If anyone wants to see how they can build one cheaply that works you can pm me and I will be glad to help you and it wont cost you one red cent.Oh and my copper pan idea came from seeing one on youtube.


----------



## crofter (May 5, 2011)

On WWW's enlarged pan design notice the shadow under the pan; There is an air gap there that cuts heat transfer to the base tray. The designs that sit directly on the floor board scorch the bottoms pretty good. Notice the solid piece that the body of the plug mounts to. That heat sinks the plug body. It is screwed or rivetted to the base tray and the handle is fastened there so it does not rob heat from the vaporizing tray. The vaporizing tray is solely in contact with the hot tip of the glow plug. My unit is very similar and works 5 Star! I too found the smaller pans often bubbled over and spilled part of the OA charge.


----------



## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)

snapper1d said:


> It doesnt take a whole lot of talent to build one.


It certainly doesn't - it just need talent to work with it and to keep it alive in practical usage. I got a cheap one and the cable broke all the times (I throw the thing into my truck, and it kept hooking on all sorts of other tools), the heat distribution over the pan differs to a varrox, the glow plug broke down and thus the sublimation isn't the same at all circumstances. The pan does build up more oxalic acid residues with number of hives you treat in a row. And so on. The varrox you can dip into a bucket of cold water, so it can be reloaded more quickly. This is an advantage. I am sick of imperfect tools because they slow me down, cost me nerves and time. I am willing to pay an extra dollar or two, if I get a better tool. That's only me, of course. 

Compare to a varrox:









photo credits: http://shop.biovet.ch/de_bv/bienen/varroxr-verdampfer.html

You're lucky enough anyway. Look at the shop above - in Switzerland a varrox costs 157,32 US$. 

I tried all other sorts of vaporizers. They all have their disadvantages. For example, there is a vaporizer fitted with a blowtorch. See:









photo credits: http://www.wepaemh.de/index.php/oxalsaeure-verdampfer/oxalsaeureverdampfer-gasbetrieben-23-detail <- There is a video, too.

What first seemed to be a good idea, turned out to be less reliable and less comfortable to use. It has a battery in the handle, a small fan which should blow the vapor into the hive. So far so good. Problem is, the oxalic acid liquifies and runs back into the small ventilator. The lid doesn't close good enough. In windy weather or cold weather (frost!) you need a second blowtorch to heat the pipe at the front, otherwise the acid condensates inside the device. And after 20 hives you need to clean the thing, since the whole thing plugs up after that number of hives. 

For fifty hives or so I would choose a good varrox and that would be it. (Or dribble...)

Bernhard


----------



## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

My father once told me: When you buy a tool, make sure it is a well built, reputable device. Then you'll never have to buy one again.

I didn't listen to him for years. Ended up going through dozens of china made crap (rakes, pliers, air compressors, ect.) before I realized the old man was right. The cheap items ended up costing me more in time, frustration, and replacements than then I would have paid for a well made item to start with. Started buying quality made items, and I don't have to worry about when the item will break, when I'll be left without a tool, when I'll have to replace it, so on.

To each their own though.


----------



## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

Do you make anything for yourself or do you buy everything you own.If you buy everything you wont need tools anymore.


----------



## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALHz4B1vqKo
This is the Catholic of OAVs.
Very easy to make, an advantage over other models is you can see exactly what's going on. You know when to stop. OAV is heavier than air so treating on top makes sense. You see the fog settle in the hive you know when treatment is complete. I've made one similar to this (just big enough to cover the inner cover hole) and it was my preferred OAV method when I treated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlzdcpZdANI
Another easy one to make. very similar to what the venders sell. Disadvantage you have to charge and carry a battery and wires around with you. I've made one of these don't like hulling a battery around. And you can't see anything in side the hive. Also difficult to use with top entrance hives unless you have SBB.


----------



## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

snapper1d said:


> Do you make anything for yourself


More than I probably should.


----------



## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

FlowerPlanter the second video is where I got the idea to build my vaporizer with the copper pan.Its cheap and east to make and like his it works fine.The only difference in mine is I have my ground wire attached at the handle instead of right at the pan.The all thread is plenty big to carry currant for the ground.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlzdcpZdANI


----------



## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

> Originally Posted by *Specialkayme*
> 
> Do the temps have to only be above 37 at the time that you treat, or do they have to stay above 37 for some period of time?
> 
> For example, yesterday was in the 50's, but at night it dropped down to the 20's and should stay in the mid 30's all week. Was it safe to treat yesterday?





SNL said:


> Sure was. An hour or two above 37 will do it!



I wrote to BioVet, the Varrox distributor in Germany, regarding vaporizing temperatures and below is the email response I received from them.

Dear Mr. Gillmore

Thanks a lot for below question regarding Varrox-Vaporizers.

The oxalic acid rising as mist from the pan of the varrox is actually an Aerosol. Vapours and tiny cristals of solid oxalic acid form tiny droplets which are able to drift in the air. The same effect as mist over a river in fall, where tiny water droplets are held aloft in the air.
These aerosol droplets attach to surfaces. This can be the body of a bee, a frame of a brood comb or the walls of a hive. The important thing is the size of these droplets clinging to any surface. They have to be small enough not to be seen as dirt by the bees. The smaller these particles are the better thy stick to the bees and from there to the feet of varroa. Through the soft and thin surface of the feet of the varroa the acid enters the body fluids of varroa and kills the varroa. 

Moreover the bees are not supposed to sit tight in the winter cluster so that the crystals can settle on the bees there. (+4 deg). With tight -fitting bees the distribution of crystals in the center of the cluster is not ideal.

We hope we could help you with this information and wish you a good treatment.

Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any further queries.

Best regards

Bettina Setz
__________________________________________

Andermatt BioVet AG 
Animal health with a natural advantage 
Bettina Setz
Secretary, Sales
Stahlermatten 6, 6146 Grossdietwil, Switzerland


----------



## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Mike Gillmore said:


> I wrote to BioVet, the Varrox distributor in Germany, regarding vaporizing temperatures and below is the email response I received from them.



Dear Mr. Gillmore

Thanks a lot for below question regarding Varrox-Vaporizers.

The oxalic acid rising as mist from the pan of the varrox is actually an Aerosol. Vapours and tiny cristals of solid oxalic acid form tiny droplets which are able to drift in the air. The same effect as mist over a river in fall, where tiny water droplets are held aloft in the air.
These aerosol droplets attach to surfaces. This can be the body of a bee, a frame of a brood comb or the walls of a hive. The important thing is the size of these droplets clinging to any surface. They have to be small enough not to be seen as dirt by the bees. The smaller these particles are the better thy stick to the bees and from there to the feet of varroa. Through the soft and thin surface of the feet of the varroa the acid enters the body fluids of varroa and kills the varroa. 

Moreover the bees are not supposed to sit tight in the winter cluster so that the crystals can settle on the bees there. (+4 deg). With tight -fitting bees the distribution of crystals in the center of the cluster is not ideal.

We hope we could help you with this information and wish you a good treatment.

Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any further queries.

Best regards

Bettina Setz
__________________________________________

More confirming info....It is thought and stated that the OA enters the feet of the VM and the mouth parts to destroy them. As far as temps, the +4 degrees that Ms. Setz is referring is in celsius which converts to 39f.


----------



## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

Interesting info. Thanks for sharing.

The "_Through the soft and thin surface of the feet of the varroa the acid enters the body fluids of varroa and kills the varroa._" is the first affirmative statement I've seen on how OA kills varroa. I wonder what is the testing/data to support that statement?

I can see how the OA would get on the feet of the varroa. How would the OA get into the mouth parts of the mites?


----------



## crofter (May 5, 2011)

shinbone said:


> Interesting info.
> I can see how the OA would get on the feet of the varroa. How would the OA get into the mouth parts of the mites?


When they try to put a lip lock on one of your bees!


----------



## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

shinbone said:


> I can see how the OA would get on the feet of the varroa. How would the OA get into the mouth parts of the mites?


Other than Crofter's liplock  The vapors cover & coat everything in the hive.........


----------



## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

FlowerPlanter said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALHz4B1vqKo
> This is the Catholic of OAVs.


Hope you meant Cadillac.


----------



## Axtmann (Dec 29, 2002)

I would not use a copper pan to heat OA. There is a chemical reaction with copper and you will get poison in your hive and honey.

If you heat up OA in a pipe, make it very slow with your torch. To high temperature, and to fast heating, destroys the acid and there is a white powder (ash) left in the pipe. Eventually it will block the pipe totally. You will see some smoke coming out with some acid in, but you don't know it from the water in the acid or you get enough not destroyed acid in the hive. If you go for this, use a very short pipe and heat very slow.


----------



## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

I can not find anything about copper and oxalic acid making a poison.Anyway if you dont want to use copper like the pan I made you can always make the same pan out of aluminum just as easy.Can you show us some info on copper and oxalic acid reaction?


----------



## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

snl said:


> The important thing is the size of these droplets clinging to any surface. They have to be small enough not to be seen as dirt by the bees. The smaller these particles are the better thy stick to the bees and from there to the feet of varroa.


I thought this was interesting too. It could be one of the reasons that vaporizing temperatures are so critical. If the droplets are too large the bees see them as dirt, and I would assume begin to clean up.

My guess is that if they are small enough to be ignored by the bees then they stay coated on everything in the hive, including the bees, until the crystals dissipate. That increases the length of exposure to the mites.


----------



## DrJeseuss (May 28, 2015)

WWW said:


> At this point I had to redesign and build a new 3 gram pan for it, this bigger capacity pan works great, I have been using it for several years now.


Bill, could you kindly share rough dimensions of the new pan you milled? It appears to be about 2"x2"x1/2" stock (thickness is hard to make from the perspective) with a bowl of roughly 1 1/4"x1 3/4"x3/8". Is this about right? How does this pan attach to the heat shield? Screws from below with washers between shield and pan?


----------



## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

FlowerPlanter said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALHz4B1vqKo
> This is the Catholic of OAVs.
> Very easy to make, an advantage over other models is you can see exactly what's going on. You know when to stop. OAV is heavier than air so treating on top makes sense. You see the fog settle in the hive you know when treatment is complete. I've made one similar to this (just big enough to cover the inner cover hole) and it was my preferred OAV method when I treated.
> 
> ...


Why would we want a pedofile priest tool??? 
You must have meant Cadillac.


----------



## WWW (Feb 6, 2011)

DrJeseuss said:


> Bill, could you kindly share rough dimensions of the new pan you milled?


Hello Dr Jeseuss,
I seen your message earlier in the day but didn't have time until now to write to you, I must have unsubscribed from the thread link you sent me but hey we have finally caught up to each other.

The aluminum bowl plate measures 7/16" thick x 1 3/4" long x 1 11/16" wide and the bowl is 11/32" deep x 1 9/16" long x 1" wide, the wall thickness of the bowl on three sides is 3/32" width. The bowl is machined out with a 5/16" endmill to the before mentioned depth of 11/32".

The bowl plate is not attached to the aluminum sheet metal heat shield, it is supported in place by the glow plug, there is a 8-32 screw on the side of the plate that tightens down onto the heat tube of the plug and holds the plate in suspension above the shield. Also there is a small tab on the aluminum sheet metal shield which is under the bowl plate and this tab is bent upwards a little to help support the bowl plate above said heat shield.

Heilyser uses a Bosch 80010 glow plug however a Autolite 1101 can be substituted. The threads are machined off of the Bosch plug to a diameter of .390, this turned surface passes through a drilled hole in the 1/2" x 1/2" aluminum block and is also locked into place with a 8-32 screw. 

I hope this helps, if you have any more questions feel free to PM me......Bill


----------



## DrJeseuss (May 28, 2015)

Rough 'sketch'. The dimensions are imprecise as Sketchup rounds things on leader lines, but the model is accurate based on your notes.


----------



## WWW (Feb 6, 2011)

Hey nifty, I like it


----------



## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

While my first commercial vaporizer will arrive today... I have had enough issues with my copper pipe vaporizers to drive me to purchase one from SNL. Some colonies appear to not have been effectively treated by my pipe and torch method. My guess is that is because I am heating too quickly, but with a torch and a pipe that is very difficult to control "manually". I'm looking forward to lugging in my heavy battery and knowing that what I'm doing is going to help.


----------



## Norcalkyle (Apr 23, 2015)

I bought a varrox and really like it. Spent $40 on a power unit, and $10 on Oxalic Acid (which should last me a couple of seasons... and my sticky boards were more red than white after the first round of treatment.


----------

