# Best State to Be a Commercial Beekeeper



## scituatema (Aug 30, 2014)

What is the best state to become a commercial beekeeper? 
What state (s) has better potential to make potentially more money?


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## drlonzo (Apr 15, 2014)

scituatema said:


> What is the best state to become a commercial beekeeper?
> What state (s) has better potential to make potentially more money?


I would have to say IMO that there are many answers to your questions. The answers are going to depend SOLEY on what it is that you hope to do with your bees. Being a commercial beekeeper has many streams of revenue to it. You first have to decide what things you plan to do before this can be answered.

For me, I'm in WV. I'm working at becoming a commercial beekeeper. My line of revenue is going to be from NUC production, queen production, and Honey. For me, that keeps me at home and off the roads which is important at this time in my life. So for me WV is best.


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

Massachusetts!


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

:thumbsup:


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Thinking of moving scituatema ?


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Since commercial means money making, your home state is best. Any other state, and the commute will cost you tom much.

As for me, I prefer the state of insanity.

OK, in reality, you must post what your intentions are. Then we can better answer your question.

Crazy Roland


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## scituatema (Aug 30, 2014)

Well, I am kinda sick of cold new england weather.
I may relocate.
I would prefer being close to home but not moving 1000 of miles.
so long as it bears revenue, it can be honey, nuc production, reselling packages, pollination...
what states have more competitive advantages?
(I like the weather in California)


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Having 20 hives, you have a steep hill to climb. But being 37 you have relative youth on your side. Where is the best State to own and run a restaurant? It could be anywhere, couldn't it. It has more to do with the owner/chef/businessman than the State, doesn't it?

A money making commercial beekeeping operation can be run from just about most States where commercial beekeeping is done, I would say. Many use more than one State. Prosperous commercial beekeeping operations from NY keep bees in NY and in other States.


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## scituatema (Aug 30, 2014)

I had my first beehive when I was in 9th grade.
I would say, for restaurant business, if you are close to universities, hospitals, businesses , which is im close ,
you have a better opportunity to make money. 
Did you mean neighboring states by other states?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

No, beekeepers from NY migrate to numerous States. Among them are MD, LA, FL, SC, VA, an GA. There may be others, but those are the ones I can think of right now.

I think you should become commercial before worrying about other States.


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## babybee (Mar 23, 2012)

Ok so the new England winters have you down, but I bet the summers are pretty nice. Now if you had bees that you were to move to a southern state then you would have the best of both worlds!!


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

the op wrote:

Well, I am kinda sick of cold new england weather.

Looks like Babybee solved that one.

Realize that much like running a restaurant, it is location, location, location. Finding an open location(s) may be difficult. The last thing you want is to step on the toes of an olddtimer who knows everyone around. Best would be to find someone retiring and work into the outfit.

Crazy Roland


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## Beregondo (Jun 21, 2011)

I suspect the state of starting with a couple million bucks.

That way, if you exercise good business sense, and do everything right, you have a very good chance of being a millionaire in a couple years.


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## Slow Drone (Apr 19, 2014)

If you're from the North you will find it quite uncomfortable working bees during good weather in the South.


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## scituatema (Aug 30, 2014)

Well, since I know it is location, I asked this question.

Is it that difficult to find a good location that has not been taken yet?
what should I expect if I step on the toe of old timer? )

if I find someone who is retiring, how much capital are we talking about roughly? 

Yes, we have beautiful summer here. I like New England, beautiful, good schools etc but tooo long winter. 
I have a kid and second one is due on April. I really would like to be close to my family. I miss them if I do not see them couple days. Non migratory beekeeping or not too far distance is more suitable for me I guess


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

go to a no income tax state like Florida for your base operations.:applause:


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## missybee (Sep 6, 2014)

Skip Maryland, very short nectar flow. We sometimes have to feed them in august for them to survive.


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

> Yes, we have beautiful summer here. I like New England, beautiful, good schools etc but tooo long winter.
> I have a kid and second one is due on April. I really would like to be close to my family. I miss them if I do not see them couple days. Non migratory beekeeping or not too far distance is more suitable for me I guess


Andy Card built a large business here in New England. His base is Massachusetts. 
http://mvabeepunchers.com/about_merrimack_valley_apiaries.html

very interesting book written about him:
http://www.amazon.com/Following-Bloom-Douglas-Whynott/dp/1585422800


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

scituatema said:


> Non migratory beekeeping or not too far distance is more suitable for me I guess


Then VT is the State for you. No. Seriously. Michael Palmer has just the situation you are dreaming about. Michael is a stationary beekeeper who is making a decent living at keeping bees. He is getting to that stage in life where having someone to eventually take over would be nice. So maybe you should be talking to him.

Here's something else to think about. It may be easier to change your point of view than it would be to change your State of location. Beekeeping on a commercial level can be a life style as much as it is a way to earn a living it is a state of being. Perhaps as much as being a Chef. If you are a Chef that is. I'm not sure. 

Isn't being a Chef a 24 hours a day sort of thing? It isn't just what one does, it's who one is? So I guess you may need to decide whether being a beekeeper is who you are before you decide whether being a beekeeper is what you must do. Some of us do what we do because that's who we have become. Some because that's who we have been called to do. Some because they don't know how to do anything else. And our families come along for the ride because they have no choice.

But I can imagine that Boston must be a hard place to be a commercial beekeeper. Right? Boston may be a hard place to realize your dream. But it could also be a good place to start. You have 20 hives. Have your tried growing your business? Not just your hive count, but the business side of beekeeping? Have you tried maximizing the income potential from each hive?


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## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

The best state is the one where you will have a lifestyle that suits you. 

If you only want to go less that 1000 miles, CA is pretty much out. A lot of people from New England move to FL and find they miss the seasons. The come halfway home to NC or VA. We call them half-backs.

If your reason for moving is anything other than the weather, you are probably going to take your problem with you.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

dsegrest said:


> If your reason for moving is anything other than the weather, you are probably going to take your problem with you.


Wherever you go, there you are.


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## johng (Nov 24, 2009)

Best advice my dad ever gave me was "Home is where you make it" 
Florida is a decent state for beekeeping if you don't mind moving bees to chase the flow and you don't mind the heat. You can catch several honey flows. But, some of the guys from the Dakotas and other northern states that move their hives to the South for winter and then back home for the rest of the year is another option. Finding a spot in a distant state without stepping on toes maybe difficult. Florida has quite a few commercial beeks already and have many more commercial hives brought down for the winter. Being closer to the west coast has some advantages of being close the the Almonds. There are literally hundreds of ways to make a living with bees but, it can take a lot of time figuring out which way works best for your particular situation. Buying out a retiring beek could have many advantages in giving you atleast a head start with equipment and hopefully beeyards. Beeyards possibly being the biggest plus. There's a bee operation in Montana that has been advertised in the Bee Journal for sometime now that was recently reduced in price. Buying out an operation like that and then finding a place to overwinter in East Texas could be viable option. 

Working several years for a commercial beek I think would almost be mandatory before you decide to spend the money on becoming a commercial beek. Can you even take care of 1000hives? I would have to know the answer to that question before I took the leap of faith and spent the money. Unless you build your operation slowly over time you working for someone else will build your skills faster and cheaper than you ever could on your own.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

sqkcrk said:


> Wherever you go, there you are.


Going "Zen" on this one Mark?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

What do you mean by "going"?


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

scituatema said:


> Well, I am kinda sick of cold new england weather.
> I may relocate.


The grass isn't always greener on the other side.

NC has 4 distinct seasons. Winter a little shorter than the rest. Snow usually isn't an issue (unless you live in the mountains). I don't even own a snow shovel (used to live in PA). 

But the state average honey yield in NC is 35 lbs. By June 1 we get a dearth, everything stops blooming. By July 1 you are sweating bullets in your suit (not like you are in FL, granted), and since nothing is blooming the bees are usually a little pissy. Our _real_ beekeeping season is from February 1 to June 1. Then we hold on and hope the hives don't dwindle between June 1 and August 1. Then feed like crazy for all the stores they ate through in the dearth.

Tough to make a living off 35 lbs of honey a year. Tough to supplement that income with queen production and nuc production when they stop expanding by June 1. Possible though. But what's the MA average honey yield per hive? National average in 2000 (I know a while ago) was 82 lbs. I would guess MA averages in the mid 70's at least.

Moving to a different state may not provide the benefits you think it will. Better in some regards. Worse in others.



scituatema said:


> I would prefer being close to home but not moving 1000 of miles.
> . . .
> (I like the weather in California)


The two statements appear to be contradictory. Or am I understanding it incorrectly.


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

Ultimately, it depends on what you are trying to accomplish. Are you looking to produce the most honey possible? North and South Dakota have very good per hive yields. But overwintering is rough. Looking to breed queens or make nucs? TX and GA are great states for that, but you've got to be ready to deal with some AHB genetics. Looking to make varietal honey? FL has some good Orange Blossom honey, GA has some fantastic Sourwood Honey, or you could stay at home and sell whatever your hives produce.

But that may be putting the cart before the horse if you don't really know how to breed queens on large scale profitably, for example.


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## WWW (Feb 6, 2011)

Here in Ohio during past years my hives average 60 pounds per colony provided the hives were healthy, didn't swarm, and the nectar flow was good that year, this correlates with the following link to honey yields for each state. If the OP is looking to produce honey then this chart would be worth consideration. 
http://outdoorplace.org/beekeeping/honey1.htm


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## TalonRedding (Jul 19, 2013)

All I can say is....be careful when you ask to see another teams playbook. What you may perceive as good advice could actually be the opposite. 
I have a sneaking suspicion that commercial beekeeping is not a hobby, nor is it a sideline venture. It is pure business, and to be good at it you have to be competitive.


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## scituatema (Aug 30, 2014)

HarryVanderpool said:


> Massachusetts!



you are from Salem, OR. 
I was checking real estate prices, climate etc in Salem,OR on internet like a month ago


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## scituatema (Aug 30, 2014)

wildbranch2007 said:


> go to a no income tax state like Florida for your base operations.:applause:


well,ONE of the concern, of course, how much i can have at the end of year after all, tax etc?
When i was not a father, I would care about money less but I have my family responsibilities now


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

scituatema said:


> When i was not a father, I would care about money less but I have my family responsibilities now


Then it's probably not the best idea to leave a job you have to run off to another state to farm bees you don't have based on the advice you got on an internet forum.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

When I think about providing for a family, beekeeping is pretty far down on the list.... especially when starting from scratch.


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## scituatema (Aug 30, 2014)

Mr. Palmer is someone I highly respect and follow but I am not sure If I am the one he has been looking for.( and still thinking about cold,long VT winter )

I like queen producing and making nucs but as I said what more matters is how much i can have at the end of the year than what part of beekeeping I do. I am not someone I see everything $$$ either. ( I guess nothing is wrong if you do combination of some of them ).

Regarding California, I guess I was not clear about that. I can move, settle to California, nice weather, tons of outdoor activities etc. what I meant was that if I resettle, I would like to be closer to home rather than driving the country all over with bees.

I charge $13.00/lb in MA, good demand for good honey. One of the option is to stay in MA for now or forever! , increase my numbers. I am not in a rush to move and sell my business and start commercial beekeeping but I have a dream of owning big land , raise some animals, build my orchard and do beekeeping business .


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

scituatema said:


> I am not in a rush to move and sell my business and start commercial beekeeping but I have a dream of owning big land , raise some animals, build my orchard and do beekeeping business .


Then I guess your answer is to come up with a business plan, a budget, and a proforma. Estimate what you'll need in the form of land, number of hives, extracting equipment, vehicles, labor, gas, sugar, treatments, down payment, yearly expenses, estimated sales price, and estimated sales volume to create $X per year in profit. Figure out if you need a loan, and if you qualify for one. Determine whether or not you are willing to put down the $30,000-$200,000 up front costs to start it off. Determine if you can afford to wait over a year before you see your first paycheck. Start up companies usually require significant financial investment initially, and produce very little return in the first year or two, followed by modest return in the next few (assuming it gets better).

The big question is "do you want to" followed second by "can I afford to." The last question asked should be what location generates the greatest return. 



scituatema said:


> I like queen producing and making nucs but as I said what more matters is how much i can have at the end of the year than what part of beekeeping I do. I am not someone I see everything $$$ either. ( I guess nothing is wrong if you do combination of some of them ).


I don't know what answer you expect to get on here. If someone told you it wasn't possible to make money off bees, would you believe them? If someone told you that you could make $1,000,000 of profit per year with just you and $10,000 of expenses off of pollen sales in Barbados, would you believe them? Would either effect your mind set?

Odds are, however, if there is some giant money making venture out there related to bees, and someone could get rich off it, they probably have already. If they haven't, then you won't find them on this forum. And if they have already, they didn't get rich by telling everyone else about it, let alone the hobby beekeeper that started off this year with 2 hives (no offense).


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## scituatema (Aug 30, 2014)

I do not expect every commercial beekeepers would advice and tell me all truly. I know that from my business experience but there should be some saying some of the truth.
If I can start in a potentially good location, my expenses will be lower.

I purchased my first hive with my pocket money when I was at 9th grade, had them for like 13 years, made half a ton of honey per
year and sold nucs. I can say I produce more honey than my local average back then and i have to take a break since no location to put the bees for a while. I restarted last year with two packages when I had the first opportunity. I made 22 out of those 2 packages in two summers even if my location is 300 yards away from the ocean. Zero lost last year while MA winter lost average was very high last year. The matter of the fact that I have lost only one hive since I had my first beehive.( not offended at all, I appreciate comments always)


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

scituatema said:


> I do not expect every commercial beekeepers would advice and tell me all truly. I know that from my business experience but there should be some saying some of the truth.


But can you tell the difference?



scituatema said:


> If I can start in a potentially good location, my expenses will be lower.


I wouldn't agree. The cost of the hives you purchase will be a constant regardless of where you are located at (probably shipped in from somewhere anyway). Your extracting equipment will be the same as well. The cost of sugar, treatments, gas, mileage, vehicles, maintenance, labor, will all be roughly the same. Slight increases here, slight decreases there. But not drastic enough that you need to move halfway across the country to cut down on the price of sugar. 

The only expense that could fluctuate would be land costs. But that isn't really that important, as you'll probably be "renting" locations from farmers anyway.

What the location may do is provide certain ventures to thrive more than others, provided you have the knowledge, skill, and experience to take advantage of it. The thriving venture creates more revenue, but doesn't cut down your expenses at all. More income would actually increase your expenses.

It still doesn't negate the need for a budget, proforma, and plan.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Here is a much more detailed state by state account of honey crops and many more historical years are available. I think people assume that the biggest honey producing states also have the highest per hive averages. That's not always the case, (though 2014 may turn out to be an exception). The biggest honey producing states are those with largest areas of potentially good production and because of that also have the most hives crammed in. However experience has shown me there are no sure things in honey production. To those who think that all the good areas are taken I would say there are always underutilized areas that have been abandoned that just need a year with the right combination of weather conditions or "fence post days", as I call them, in memory of my dad who would say "when the conditions are right it seems like bees can make honey off of fence posts". http://usda.mannlib.cornell.edu/usda/current/Hone/Hone-03-21-2014.pdf


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

jim lyon said:


> http://usda.mannlib.cornell.edu/usda/current/Hone/Hone-03-21-2014.pdf


I would have expected Maine to have a higher per hive average. 

Also surprising to see CA's overall statewide per hive average is 2nd lowest.


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## scituatema (Aug 30, 2014)

the same,I thought Ca does better.
Specialkayme, I meant feeding cost would be lower if located in a good area and to buy house and "bigger" land.
Real estate is relatively cheaper in NC and school system is not bad i guess. NC is also one of the state i have been searching along with CA, FL, GA and may be TX.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

California dries out quick after April Special. There's not a lot of native plants that flower over long periods of time during the season either since it gets so dry. Most rural areas get more grassy type weeds than anything and starthistle has been highly eradicated in a lot of areas. My bees have to catch an Ag crop to pull in a box of honey, and only strong hives will do that. Urban areas can be better, but you can't cram 1000's of hives into them. Obviously some areas can do well, especially the coastal ones, but for the most part you're not banking on a lot of honey being produced for most commercial operations unless you're chasing sunflowers etc..


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## scituatema (Aug 30, 2014)

any stationary commercial beekeepers in CA? Must some. How do they do it then?
Can they generate enough income from almond pollination to cover the rest of the year?


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

JRG13 said:


> California dries out quick after April Special.
> . . .
> Obviously some areas can do well, especially the coastal ones, but for the most part you're not banking on a lot of honey being produced for most commercial operations unless you're chasing sunflowers etc..


Makes sense. I didn't think CA was the state where all the money was, just didn't think it would rank 2nd to last.


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

scituatema said:


> Can they generate enough income from almond pollination to cover the rest of the year?


Usually almonds cover most of their expenses for the year. Their profits come from other pollination contracts, honey, nuc production, package production, you name it.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

The OP wrote:

If I can start in a potentially good location, my expenses will be lower.

I believe the exact opposite. If you are looking to move into a "good" location, the demand will drive up both the price of location(yard) rental, and the price of an existing operation you could purchase. 

A good location will increase your gross profits.

Crazy Roland


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## Brian Suchan (Apr 6, 2005)

South dakota???


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## Sadler91 (Nov 6, 2011)

Florida is slowly turning into a California situation I believe. More and more bees show up every year. They are getting dropped in places with no permission and in several cases causing a big problem with the people that live close by. I have seen some northerners drop 120+ right next to a school bus stop 50 yards from the front doors of a small subdivision. You have to look ten times harder to find a location down here and most likely you will end up in a tight location where you need a one ton to get the bees in. Your equipment will last about 5 years down here as well. Florida is a great place for bees no doubt but with the citrus greening wiping out the groves and the amount of "snowbirds" showing up I am wondering how the next 25 years is going to shake out. Wherever you end up at least show some respect for the commercial guys that are already there. There are plenty of people dropping bees on their front door already. You don't want to start a war.


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

Sadler is correct his part of the state is a great place for bees. 

The same can't be said for where I'm at, flows are weak at best, orange grove spray will kill them if the Bears don't get them first. Ants,termites and humidity will tear up the rest of your equipment in short order. Rattlesnakes and scorpions will take up residence in every dead out after our year round grown of Varroa run your bees down.

Sadler is a little North and East of me, it's s good place to keep bees. Ask a local where the "Ridge" is.


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

Your answer lies in the state of willingness... Willingness to keep bees in multiple locations. If you are looking at the $ as your highest objective the state of Migratory is the one you should move to. 


All the "Rich$" Bees in this gig seem to be the ones who keep there pallets moving. I have also noticed that a very high % of them tend to have what I would call "marriages in a state of disrepair." 

The bucks may not be worth it when on your death bed or the wrong side of divorce court..... 


As my son is considering moving full time commercial outside of the auspices of the old man I recommended he pick the brains of a few successful beeks. He was quoted a minimal starting investment of $200 thousand from a beek who has just gone from 0 to 4000 in about 6 years. Its an amount that would get one rolling fairly well. Its not an investment amount that I would recommend coming out of the pocket of someone who has not been through the riggers of some form of commercial beekeeping.


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## scituatema (Aug 30, 2014)

I guess competition is high between commercial beekeepers. My understanding is now that to find good bee yards are difficult especially if you have high numbers, mostly ther are already occupied. I do not have connections to find locations in any different states. 
I love bees. I have lost only one colony so far since i started ( I was in high school ) . I have never dealt with a semi load of beehives, but i think I can be the right hand of a commercial beekeeper. I know there are more to learn than that I know as well. Maybe I keep looking bee yards closer to my home and increase my numbers for near future. I can increase them rapidly if I find bee yards.
but I still dream of a big land and it looks hard with this prices in Massachusetts. 
I


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

honey-4-all wrote;

He was quoted a minimal starting investment of $200 thousand from a beek who has just gone from 0 to 4000 in about 6 years.

Those numbers seem plausible. How bad do you want this to happen?

Crazy Roland


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## mbc (Mar 22, 2014)

scituatema said:


> What is the best state to become a commercial beekeeper?


Solvent


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## chillardbee (May 26, 2005)

scituatema said:


> What is the best state to become a commercial beekeeper?
> What state (s) has better potential to make potentially more money?


I think being in a state of partial insanity with a slight touch sleep deprivation and anxiety should do the trick.


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## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

Good luck in CA, land is sparce and so is the forage. Even a lot of the big guys here send their bees other places for honey crops. Put it this way, i am within spitting distance of alfalfa fields and this year found my little bee yard in the middle of probably 1000 hives, and that was within a few mile radious of me. A lot of new hives placed in the area because of the lack of forage in the hills due to the drought. We havnt had a significant star thistle bloom for almost 4 years, at least in the area where I can place my bees for that varietal honey. I am very lucky to have the yard I have.


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

California, hmmmm....
It's a desert in summer, unless you can find yards near agriculture that is good for bees, like sunflower, safflower, alfalfa, or buckwheat. Or get lucky enough to be near an agriculture seed farm, growing flowering crops for seed. I think the chances are slim to find these yards. The coastal areas have more natural forage, but there is a lot of urban sprawl along the coast line.

As for weather, if you are in the central valley, expect much hotter summers than you are used to, and dry. Coastal areas are more humid, and pleasant to live in, the valley is as dry as a popcorn fart and hot in the summer. The mountains are pine forest, the foothills are oak and buckeye, and California Buckeye pollen will kill your hives out.

If money is the game, then it's all about almond pollination. 150+ per hive in almonds, the bees build up on them, and it's most normal to use 2 deep box hives. After almonds, have your ducks in a row by having queen cells ready from your mating yards, and split the almonds hives up. Get 2 deep singles with queen cells and a nuc with the old queen. Once the queens are mated, sell each single for 150 each. Keep the nucs with old queens for yourself to build up and requeen and make splits later in the year for your own increase. I can see getting 400 per hive out of almonds. After almonds, do cherries, then apples, or whatever. Feed all summer and fall. And don't forget treatments, we don't have hive beetle issues so much, but varroa mites are a big issue here, as well as long summer and fall dearth.

Where I'm at is pretty rough. Dearth summer and fall means lots of feed of both sugar and pollen sub. Varroa treatments of course. I've tried the treatment free way and here in my location with California bees, they'll die out by spring or be worthlessly small and weak by spring. Feed all summer and fall, I've decided to break them down to singles or nucs that don't take as much feeding and raise queens and build more nucs to increase with. 

These are just some of my views from limited exposure to commercial beekeeping. Just giving you a heads up from my perspective for California. Unless you are in coastal areas, you won't like the hot dry summers, but the winters are mild unless you are north and/or in higher elevations. And be prepared to feed the bees.


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

And oh, I almost forgot, California property prices are higher than other states for the same type of property, mostly. Depends on the state you are comparing to of course.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

chillardbee said:


> I think being in a state of partial insanity with a slight touch sleep deprivation and anxiety should do the trick.


W/deep pockets.


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## missybee (Sep 6, 2014)

Our first tsp of honey from our hives, is going to be very pricey.................


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