# Dribbling Oxalic



## luka (May 23, 2012)

What percent of oxalic concentration do most people use when doing this method of mite control?


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## Walliebee (Nov 17, 2006)

I do a single treatment of 3% OA in mid November. (North Carolina)


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

You only want to use that method once per year, & its usually done in the fall.


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

Why only once?
Hives in Florida don't shut down like up north, it would be hard to treat during "broodless" period.


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## jaybees (Jun 7, 2010)

Once a year is all the bee's can take. More than that with dribbling can be lethal.
You can fog them (vaporize method) several times without harm. 3 times is normally used to cover the brood cycles using fog method.


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

Can you explain this? 
I thought that the dribble method shortened their life but left no residue.
The newly hatched bees have no exposure and so treating three times over three weeks would kill most of the mites and the new brood emerging after three treatment would be more mite free and have had no exposure. I thought the point of treating only once was treating during broodless period and not damaging bees that had to survive over a northern winter.

I have no experience with this.


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## ryanhalby (Aug 11, 2012)

Mbeck said:


> Can you explain this?
> I thought that the dribble method shortened their life but left no residue.
> The newly hatched bees have no exposure and so treating three times over three weeks would kill most of the mites and the new brood emerging after three treatment would be more mite free and have had no exposure. I thought the point of treating only once was treating during broodless period and not damaging bees that had to survive over a northern winter.
> 
> I have no experience with this.


How long does it take to see effect after dribbling oxalic. We did a test of 20 colonies yesterday, and checking them today?


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## danno (Dec 17, 2007)

dribbling causes some damage to the carapaces or gut of the bee's. This damage is cumulative and with mutiple treatments can kill the colony. What this means is no more than one treatment per brood cycle


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

When I heard Randy Oliver talk about it, he said once per year is all you should do it. Remember the queen isn't replaced every brood cycle.


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## jaybees (Jun 7, 2010)

The dribbling method and the vaporizing method are two different treatments. Dribbling
is once a year, vaporizing once a week for 3 weeks OR once during a broodless period.


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

I can find examples of lots of people repeating the only treat once rule.
I can find examples of commercials treating multiple time within a short time.
I can't find examples of people that have treated multiple times and report hurting or killing strong hives.

Is anyone aware of studies done that can back up this claim?


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## jaybees (Jun 7, 2010)

Try looking here...
http://scientificbeekeeping.com/oxalic-acid-questions-answers-and-more-questions-part-1-of-2-parts/

and here....
http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/oxalicthorne.html


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

My experience is that a large hive dosent show any apparent negative effects from an oxalic dribble (we use a 3.2% mixture). We have experimented with multiple treatments through the summer as well. The trouble is I also haven't noticed a resulting mite reduction because I think way too many mites are in the sealed brood to have much effect. My conclusion is one well timed dribble when they are broodless in the fall is the way to go. It will harm a small cluster but I just figure those probably wouldnt have survived the winter anyway, particularly if their mite counts were high.


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

jaybees said:


> Try looking here...
> http://scientificbeekeeping.com/oxalic-acid-questions-answers-and-more-questions-part-1-of-2-parts/
> 
> and here....
> http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/oxalicthorne.html


Yes those are the articles that people seems to try to quote from. I was questioning he validity of the "only treat once statement".


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## jaybees (Jun 7, 2010)

Jim- Have you tried the vapor method?


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

Jim,
Thanks for the reply, I'm assuming that you treat with OA dribble in a more northern climate than me. I'm not sure that bees here are often as broodless as hives north of me. 
I wonder if one OA treatment only in our most broodless period would be enough or other measures would need to be taken? What would those measures be?


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

One year, after all the hives were treated, I remembered a swarm tht I had missed out behind the barn.
Here is a picture that I took the day after dribbling OA at 3.4%:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/Shallotman/DSC00550.jpg


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

Looks like it really hammered the mites.
Do you attribute the dead bees to OA or just normal house cleansing?


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## Flyer Jim (Apr 22, 2004)

You might find this interesting.

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?200910-Oxalic-Acid-Use

It is an old thread,we have been here before.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

jaybees said:


> Jim- Have you tried the vapor method?


No, I have a couple problems personally with that. The first is safety, we have a lot of hives to do and I have concerns about a person being around that vapor for extended periods of time. The second is time. We can dribble a yard of 40 hives way faster than any vapor system that I have ever seen.


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## acbz (Sep 8, 2009)

Hi Jim
Thinking about trying the oxalic dribble this winter in FL. 
What have you found is the most efficient way to apply - the Oliver garden sprayer method at 5 ml per seam of bees? 
Ever experimented with different concentrations of acid?
Thanks.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

acbz said:


> Hi Jim
> Thinking about trying the oxalic dribble this winter in FL.
> What have you found is the most efficient way to apply - the Oliver garden sprayer method at 5 ml per seam of bees?
> Ever experimented with different concentrations of acid?
> Thanks.


Aaron: I have used the 3.2% formulation and a garden sprayer set to spray a thin stream a lot like this. http://scientificbeekeeping.com/the-learning-curve-part-3-the-natural-miticides/ No I havent experimented with different concentrations, I read a study a few years ago showing very little additional benefit going any stronger than the 3.2% rate. If you are treating a single we just flip them over on their top and spray down onto the bottom bars. With a double we spit the hive and stand the top box on end and spray between the bottom bars of the top box and down onto the top bars of the lower box as needed. Once you get the hang of it you can treat a lot of hives pretty quickly. If there is an adverse reaction to the spray it sure isnt noticable except in the real small hives that just dont seem to be able to handle it. I dont ever recall seeing many if any dead bees but you sure will see lots of dead mites on the bottom boards. Get the better quality garden sprayers that have a little plastic filter where the hose screws into the sprayer and clean it out daily. We also filter everything through a fine strainer and pull the plunger out of the sprayer and thoroughly rinse it daily. A few minutes a day cleaning and maintaining them will save a lot of aggravation. Its pretty benign stuff at that concentration but wear goggles or keep some clean water handy for eye rinse as it can occasionally splash through your veil and into your face. I have had it happen on occasion and just splashed some water in my eye and never even had any discomfort. Use warm and not hot water to mix as any steam vapor coming off of it can be kind of nasty.


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## TWall (May 19, 2010)

Jim,

How small of a colony have you treated? I'm going to be overwinter some nucs. I'm sure some will only be five frames, hopefully packed with bees. How about 10 frames, 5 over 5?

Tom


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

In my mind any hive under about 5 frames is going to have trouble handling a treatment. Try a real light spray on one if you are in doubt and see how it looks in a day or two.


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

If you have a feed store near you that sells horse medications they will have 50ml syringe. filling the syringe will do one hive with 5ml down each gap that has bees.


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