# Wax to honey ratio



## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Way back when we used the same uncapping methods as in the USA, with 8 frames in a 10 frame super we expected around 60 to 1, or at least that's what we told other beekeepers we extracted for.

Now it's all different, everybody is geared up for manuka which is a thixotrophic honey and the combs are usually uncapped by vibrating needles to break up the gel. Wax yeilds vary greatly depending just what uncapping set up a guy is using.


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## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

OT, Can you link to a pix of the vibrating needle uncapper?
Okay, found this site -- http://beeman.se/biodling/ljung/ling-2.htm details the "Sjoelis Honey loosener" 
From NZ:
http://bouteljeproducts.co.nz/catalogue/product/boutelje-semi-automatic-honey-loosener/
and 
http://www.hdprocess.co.nz/products/category/honey-loosener-honey-pricker.html


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Oldtimer said:


> Way back when we used the same uncapping methods as in the USA, with 8 frames in a 10 frame super we expected around 60 to 1, or at least that's what we told other beekeepers we extracted for.
> 
> Now it's all different, everybody is geared up for manuka which is a thixotrophic honey and the combs are usually uncapped by vibrating needles to break up the gel. Wax yeilds vary greatly depending just what uncapping set up a guy is using.


The 60:1 number is the old "rule of thumb" I have always heard. Since I've kept track it always seems to run a bit "waxier" than that. This year is ridiculous.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

JWChesnut said:


> OT, Can you link to a pix of the vibrating needle uncapper?


As you found with your search, there are several ways to do it. Some uncap first then run the combs through a pricker, and some prickers do not need the comb to be uncapped first. The pricker does more than just prick, all the needles are vibrating at high speed. Here is a video of one in action.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0I4mXr4eAE


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

bump Anyone extracting on any sort of scale have any thoughts on this?


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Essentially you went from 55:1 to somewhere in the 47-49:1 range. Call it 48:1. You are needing an extra 7 from your historical average. 
7/55x100=12%.

The simplest and only explanation is when you changed the cam somehow the knifws are set a little deeper. If you can't see the difference I would say your eyes ain't what they used to be, Old Man Time is catching up to you.

Not to sure how receptive the packer would be, but perhaps you can squeeze and extra penny out of him.

Jean-Marc


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Thanks for the response jean-marc. Yes, perhaps a few caliper readings would explain it.


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## beecavalier (Jan 30, 2014)

Jim did you have a greater number of warm days combined with *uninterrupted* flows this year? 

In 1988 the stars lined up for Northern Alberta beekeepers...we had yards that were fully capped from top to bottom (5 to 6 FD Langstroths) above QE in 15-20 days...typically they were only 10-20% capped in all other years. I know that in my present hive, non-commercial system, bees keep at 27C 24/7 build wax at unprecedented rates.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

jim lyon said:


> bump Anyone extracting on any sort of scale have any thoughts on this?


 I pay someone to extract for me and have for ages. I have heard the "One pound of wax per can." theorem as long as I remember. [5 gallon square tin cans were the common honey container at one time.] But I don't really pay attention to the ratio. So I'm not much help to you, Jim.

Here's a wild idea, is the honey lighter in weight this year, somehow? (not a question I would have asked on Facebook.)

I like what Jean- Marc wrote, slightly deeper comb cutting depth.


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## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

This years crop was a short one. 

Wax was at 2.8% compared to last years 2.6% :scratch:

I run 8 frames in 10 frame equipment and use a Gunness uncapper.


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## erik122 (Sep 30, 2015)

An interesting question I think a lot about. I have 9 frames in 10frame equipment (Canadian boxes which are slightly wider than American. I also use cappings forks, no machine uncapping. This saves tremendously on wax, resulting in my wax percentages more like 90:1 or even greater honey. This is one reason why I haven?t moved to an uncapper (even as I grow to make about 100,000 lbs honey per season). I have no wax handling equipment in the honey house, only skimming the sump every morning and the last barrel out of the tank.
Even finding a good market for wax doesn?t make up for the lost honey production with honey anywhere over $1.50 /lb and wax at somewhere about 3-4$. 
Given the old ratio of 8lbs of honey to make a pound of wax, which is debatable.

Anyway, I?m in northern Alberta and I?ve found that some years yes they do draw out the comb more than others before capping it, (especially earlier in the season) resulting in more wax (and usually more burr comb between frames and between boxes, as they don?t always respect the bee space!). Also of course more capped honey per frame (usually from a heavier flow) means more wax. So it may not only be the uncapper cutting depth, just dynamics of the flow.


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