# Clipping mandabiles



## mally (Sep 16, 2015)

What do people know about the procedure and what do they think about doing this for a hive that can contain multiple Queens?


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

Gosh, and I thought _marking_ a queen with a dot of paint on her back was challenging! 

What's the advantage of multiple queen hives vs the same number queens, but each in her own domain?

More queens, more brood, and bigger foraging populations equals bigger hives. But take it from someone who is struggling with huge hives, that is not always a desirable thing. After a day of wrangling my four-to-six-deep-box high colonies, I look with envy at people whose bees live in just a couple fo deeps and a medium. 

Enj.


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## mally (Sep 16, 2015)

I did some research on this topic and beeks in China have been doing this for years not everyone thinks that it's the most decent way of keeping bees. Clipping a wing would probably be done also but I would imagine that the hive might not accept the queen as being healthy in some cases. Looks like it's not common practice with most other countries that have a high number of beekeepers.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

mally said:


> What do people know about the procedure and what do they think about doing this for a hive that can contain multiple Queens?


I don't understand why you would even comtemplate this.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Have seen queens fight and they do not kill the other queen by biting them to death.

What do they achieve in China by clipping the mandibles?


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

OK just googled it, does appear that it works, certainly a new one to me.

http://www.coloss.org/beebook/I/misc-methods/4/5


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## marshmasterpat (Jun 26, 2013)

WOW. Just wow.


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## Karen of NH (Jan 30, 2014)

COLOSS honey bee research association, coloss.org based in Switzerland that is focussed on improving the well-being of bees at a global level.. Another great site for my winter reading list. Thank you for posting this link!


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## mcon672 (Mar 5, 2015)

A post by Iran bee led me to this method a few months ago. Apparently this method is popular in Iran. The site I was on was Iranian and only half of it translated. The site that old timer posted is pretty clear. I am interested in trying this if for no other reason than to see how it works. Would be a good experiment for someone that requeens five or six hives at once since older queens are needed. If you try it mally let us know how it went.


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## Dave Burrup (Jul 22, 2008)

This idea blows my mind. I had always assumed that they killed each other by stinging. The only way that I can see clipping mandibles working is if they have to grab and hold before stinging. So if they cannot grab and hold the opposing queen they do not sting.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

I just had a ziplock baggy full of queen bees (probably 15 or so) and they were fighting it out in the bag for 40 minutes and only one was dead. They were locked together and trying to sting. I think virgins would much prefer to sting through the side of a cell compared to a live, moving target... which seems an inefficient form of combat for them. 

Wish I'd have been thinking about this thread because I would have taken them home, clipped some mandibles and marked them and seen what happened as far as mating/laying goes. Dang it.

The colony trying to mate a queen at this point in time is pretty much screwed anyway, so why not give it a swing.

Imagine a colony with 3-5 laying queens. Now imagine trying to keep that colony in it's boxes.


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

I have a hard enough time keeping my single queen hives in boxes. Maybe for a brood factory. Blink and its a swarm factory. G


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

This is speculation on my part, but I think the reason a two queen hive does better is the pheromones. A queen can lay 3,000 eggs a day at least (Dzierzon, 1861) and few hives can raise that much brood. I really think it's the pheromones. Would mandible clipping affect the pheromones? I think so. After all it is queen _mandibular pheromone_. Would it stop them from fighting? Possibly. When I watched two virgins running around in an observation hive for more than eight hours, they seemed to be trying to avoid each other. Every time they saw the other queen they would run. They seem to sense the peril. So if they sensed that they would not be able to hold them very well (a missing mandible) it might keep them from being brave enough to attempt it. It seems to me that it would likely be counter productive because of the loss of pheromones.


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## beekuk (Dec 31, 2008)

Michael Bush said:


> Would mandible clipping affect the pheromones? I think so.





> A scientific note on the lack of effect of mandible ablation
> on the synthesis of royal scent by honeybee queen


http://www.researchgate.net/publica...e_synthesis_of_royal_scent_by_honeybee_queens


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

It appears not to reduce mandibulary gland secretion. 

I would sure have to back off on the coffee before I attempted that operation. Off with her head!


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