# mating nucs



## soupcan

Is it a snowing & a blowing up your way today???


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## ZZZnature

I like your design! Would you share your plans/template with me?


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## Kingfisher Apiaries

Don't you have trouble with SHB when you are down here? I would think they would be a problem with those mating nucs. 
Good job. I only have to make 20, have not started yet

mike


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## Kingfisher Apiaries

Also, what kind of plywood are you using???

Mike


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## Brooklyn

Greg,

I will take 10 shipped to SC



Great Job


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## honeyman46408

> 15 done 485 more to go


Tooooo much work but they look gooooood


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## gregstahlman

don't really have a problem with SHB until may and usually only 1 or 2 boxes get slimed up. by that time it is time to tear them down and get out of TX. the ends are 3/4 in pine and the sides are 7/16 birch plywood. i will have to measure the dimensions tomorrow for those who want the plans.


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## Kingfisher Apiaries

What are your lids made of? Ultra thick. 

mike


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## Broke-T

Can you post pic of inside? What do you use for inner cover?

Johnny


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## Countryboy

What is the second hole for? You have a normal entrance hole about 9 o'clock, but there is also a smaller hole (maybe 3/8) down closer to the bottom of the box.


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## Broke-T

I think these are double nucs. 3 med frames each side. Small hole is entrance for 1 side and big hole screened vent hole for other side. Same on other end.

At least thats the way I have mine.

Johnny


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## swarm_trapper

what kinda frames are you using in the nucs greg?


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## slickbrightspear

those look good


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## gregstahlman

here's the dimensions for those who want them









mini frame is on the left and mini feeder is on the right
FRAME: all wood is 3/8 thick
end bars: 1 1/8 W x 5 1/4 L
top bar: 1/2 W x 4 5/8 L
bottom bar: 1/2 X 3 5/8 L

we use plastic foundation in the frames










sides and lid are made of 7/16 birch plywood. ends and middle partition are made of 3/4 pine
outside demensions without lid on
L: 10 3/16
W: 6 7/8
H: 6 1/2

inside:
L: 10 1/8
W: 6
H: 6 1/2

dado for the frame rest are cut in 3/8 for end boards and cut in 1/4 for middle partition. should measure out to be 4 7/8 from end frame rest to middle frame rest.

telescoping lid is 7/16 plywood measuring 12 x 8. 7/16 x 7/16 plywood strips are stapled around the edge of the lid

each chamber in the box gets 3 frames and a feeder

took these measurement quickly so hopefully the are fairly accurate


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## LT

Know of any good way to keep the feeder from leaking. We usually dip ours in paffafin but about half still leak.


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## gregstahlman

we dip them in really really hot bees wax. temp of the wax is extremely hot so it makes a thin layer that will not flake off. give the inside and outside a light coat. last year out of 1000 feeders maybe 10 of them leaked. we usually dip them every 2-3 years. also the shiny side of the masonite is facing the inside, dont know if that makes a difference or not


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## avalonweddingsbcs

just curious... i made a 5 frame nuc using standard frames.... these are smaller.. i've never understood what they're for... I know its for keeping a queen in... but why not just use a regular frame nuc?


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## David LaFerney

avalonweddings...

They are mating nucs for queen rearing - you put a queen cell in one of these and it (hopefully) hatches into a virgin, hangs out for a few days, flies out and mates, returns and starts laying. Once she is laying she is ready for use or sale or whatever.

2 reasons to use minis for this - 1) It takes a lot fewer bees to establish the nuc. If you break up a regular hive to make full frame nucs you might only be able to make 6-8 if that - whereas if you are setting up minis you can get many more set up with the same bees. 2) When you are harvesting the unmarked queens from a bunch of mating nucs they are easier to find in a mini than on full sized frames.

Nonetheless you *can* use full frame nucs for mating nucs if you want to. If you are dabbling in queen rearing (like me) it has the advantage of producing reusable comb, and using standard equipment other than the 3 (or 2 or even 1) frame nuc boxes.

Sure would be nice to set up nucs with just a cup full of bees though. It sounds tempting every time I think of it.


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## David LaFerney

Greg - do you reuse comb from year to year?


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## avalonweddingsbcs

just seems to me that a hive that small would have to be watched like a hawk cause it would have to be cleaned out as soon as the queen started laying. Cause it would overfill in weeks and everyone would swarm...

call me lazy...

so its that small just so that you can make a smaller colony. SMaller for a denser colony, and you can find the queen a lot faster... Thats the reason?


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## Countryboy

_just seems to me that a hive that small would have to be watched like a hawk cause it would have to be cleaned out as soon as the queen started laying._

That's the whole purpose of the mating nuc. As soon as you see the queen is laying well, you cage her up and sell her.

_Cause it would overfill in weeks and everyone would swarm..._

They need a queen to swarm...and you caged her up and sold her off before they had a chance to swarm.

_call me lazy..._

No, small mating nucs like this are for lazy people. See, lazy people want to make the most money they can from the least input, which is exactly what these mating nucs allow a queen producer to accomplish.

_SMaller for a denser colony, and you can find the queen a lot faster... Thats the reason? _

No. Density is not the purpose. Yes, a small mating nuc makes it easier to find the queen. See, the purpose is not to produce colonies. The goal is to produce queens, and a small mating nuc requires the least investment to get the queen mated, laying, evaluated and sold.


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## Michael Palmer

avalonweddingsbcs said:


> Cause it would overfill in weeks and everyone would swarm... Thats the reason?


No, not entirely. As CB says, you remove the queen when she starts to lay, so swarming isn't really the problem.

I rund about 500 mini-nucs in a 4 way configuration. We're catching 100+ queens every 4 days. Couldn't imaging using standard frame nucs. But with minis, they get strong fast, even when you pull the queens 16 days after giving cells. The queens begin laying on the 11th or 12th day after cells. Depending on how strong the nucs were made up, after two rounds the nucs are packed with bees. 

From my observations, it seems that the stronger the mini-nuc, the lower the acceptance of the cells. They reject the virgin from my cell and raise their own. The solution is to remove brood and give comb or foundation if on a flow. Another problem arises with strong mini-nucs. In hot weather strong minis abscond...leaving behind brood and a few of bees. In the case of absconds, there may be only a very few recently layed eggs. You see eggs but can't find the queen...there she is over there on that bush with a fist size cluster. Oh oh, there's another and another and there goes another.


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## David LaFerney

How many bees to you stock these with?


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## Michael Palmer

I use two frames with brood, one of feed, one empty comb, and enough bees to take care of the brood. I winter the mini-nucs on 8 combs and split up the day before cells are ready, so I don't use bulk bees. After the second and third round of queens are caught, I remove a frame and replace with foundation if the nuc is strong enough. The extra brood is used to boost weak nucs, restock laying worker nucs, or if honey, taken home to my robbing yard where the hives rob it and I get it back in medium supers.


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## swamprat

michael palmer.im thinking of ordering a few queens from you for this spring.could you send me the order info and deadline of ordering please.thank you very much.


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## gregstahlman

guess i am one of those lazy people who like to make money with little input:scratch: in my opinion, mini nucs take far more management and control versus raising queens in any other structure. *so it is far from being LAZY!!! *the whole reason for a mini nuc is to raise a lot of queens with very little amount of bees. we are not large queen producers but it would take a lot of equipment and bees to raise 3500 queens every spring in standard sized equipment. we have used our own mated queens before when making splits and have not noticed any more drone layers from a caged queen compared to a cell. i posted these pics and measurements for those who want to build a mini nuc, not to be criticised.


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## Adrian Quiney WI

Greg, keep posting. Many of us learn a lot from viewing threads, like this, that generate discussion. :thumbsup:


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## David LaFerney

I imagine that anyone who is *serious* about learning to rear queens appreciates *any crumb* of information that we can get from someone who *actually knows* what they are doing - especially if they also know how to make a dollar off of it. I know *I* sure appreciate it.

Anyway, I doubt if there *is* a "lazy way" to rear 35 queens, much less 3500.


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## Michael Palmer

gregstahlman said:


> it would take a lot of equipment and bees to raise 3500 queens every spring in standard sized equipment.
> 
> we have used our own mated queens before when making splits and have not noticed any more drone layers from a caged queen compared to a cell.


Imagine trying to catch that many queens on standard combs. My eyes hurt thinking about it. I haven't seen any problems with queen quality from minis either greg. They produce well for me and my customers like them too.


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## Countryboy

_mini nucs take far more management and control versus raising queens in any other structure. so it is far from being LAZY!!! the whole reason for a mini nuc is to raise a lot of queens with very little amount of bees.

it would take a lot of equipment and bees to raise 3500 queens every spring in standard sized equipment._

I apologize if you thought I was criticizing you. I was actually complimenting you. There is a difference between working hard, and working smart. People who work smart try to find easier or more efficient ways of doings thing. This is commonly known as finding the lazy way to do things.

I suspect it would be even more work raising 3500 queens in standard sized equipment - which makes mating nucs the lazy way to do it, even though there is a lot of work involved.


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## KevinR

How would using these compare to using 2 medium frame nucs or a single fame nuc.

It would appear that you have roughly the same surface area as a single medium frame or a little bigger.


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## Michael Palmer

For best acceptance you really need at least two combs...whatever size.


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## Broke-T

I am using 3 standard medium frames in mating nucs. Rather than use a feeder, I plan to start off with a frame of honey or extracted comb filled with 2 to 1 SS. Will that work OK?

Johnny


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## KevinR

gregstahlman said:


> finally got all the pieces cut up and ready to assemble. 15 done 485 more to go :doh: just glad everything was measured correctly
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> Where did you get the plywood for this, and how much does it run per sheet?
> 
> Thanks


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## Michael Bush

I try to always use a frame of honey and a frame of brood to start mine. I don't have feeders in mine, but I sometimes squeeze a dixie cup and use it as a small feeder in a dearth as without some feeding in a dearth, sometimes the queens won't fly.


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## tommyt

BTT for the spring and the New Guys Like ME
Great reading BeeSource

Thanks
Tommyt


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## Broke-T

Greg, any pics of your mating yards with the new nucs?

Johnny


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