# Open Feeding (Open Feeders) methods



## angel (Jul 23, 2013)

Did a few searches and didn't find anything that I was looking for, so here are the questions:

With open feeding, I'm taking several large 5 gallon buckets, putting straw/wood/branches in them with sugar water (2:1 right now). I'm placing these behind the hives within 10 feet of them. Looks like WWIII going on (but I love standing in the middle of them when this is happening). Next day there are several dead bees in the front entrance of the hives so I'm figuring they were robbing the hives as well. 

Something to note, as a beginner learning, I put some light field grass in one of these buckets and I have learned that the next day you will have a 1/2 5 gallon bucket of dead drowned bees if you put light grass instead of straw/wood/tree twigs/branches inside there as the more bees that open feed, the more weight will sink the ladies on the bottom to drown. Noted not to make that mistake again.

Question is, how far away do you put open feeders, how many (depending on hive numbers), and does several 5 gallon buckets with straw/wood/sticks would work?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Reduce the entrances, that will help with robbing. Put the feeders on the other side of the yard, they will fly for it


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## peterloringborst (Jan 19, 2010)

Hi Ian

I don't know if you get the American Bee Journal, but I just contributed an article on the Bee Lab at Guelph. Paul Kelly described open barrel feeding to me. I have seen it before but always thought it was inefficient and leads to robbing. He told me he thought he got better distribution of feed than with _top buckets_ and that open feeding reduces robbing as they think they are on a flow. What is your experience? Is open feeding really better than_ top buckets_, or just easier?

Pete


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

Bucket feeding works fine for me in isolated yards where I am not feeding another thirty commercial hives. I set the buckets out in front well floated with wheat straw or timothy grass. As long as it is just my dozen to twenty hives two buckets seems to allow them all to feed without much fighting. Small entrances for small colonies is an automatic this time of the year.


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## Homemaid (Sep 4, 2013)

we use Beesmart feeders inside the hive and bucket feeders outside of the hive. We took 5 gallon buckets and drilled holes in the top edge






then fill bucket put the lid on and turn the bucket upside down... Then the little reservoirs fill up and they drink from there..


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## peterloringborst (Jan 19, 2010)

I know about all the different types of feeders. What I was trying to find out is if anyone has compared open barrel feeding to hive top feeding as to how it gets distributed in the hives. Obviously, if you put feed five gallons to each hive directly, each gets five gallons. Whereas if you open barrel feed, some might get more, some less. Anyone compared these methods as to how they affect the hives? Not about how easy one is vs the other.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Just a little plastic and 1,500 gals. Takes about 15 minutes to set up and 20 bucks for the plastic.



http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s35/CNHoney/P1010155_zps61f78fc1.jpg


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

peterloringborst said:


> and that open feeding reduces robbing as they think they are on a flow. What is your experience? Is open feeding really better than_ top buckets_, or just easier?
> 
> Pete


Paul Kelly is exactly right. Open feeding gets a real bad wrap, and it mostly has to do with open feeding improperly. This is my first year actually using the method, and I have it tweaked now that it is by far the most effective feeding type, in my opinion. After talking to Allen Martens, my Manitoba beesourse beekeeping neighbour, has used this method primarily for as long as I have known him. The trick is to make sure the yard has enough surface area to feed on, I use 4 totes for a 36 hive yard. No fighting, no drowning, no robbing... The bees will take the first round within days, and a week on the second round. It gets the feed out fast. The large hives take what they want and the weaker hives follow up on the second feeding. 
I will use feeder pails because of other reasons and I am planning on incorporating open feeding into my spring and fall time feeding strategy.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Keith Jarrett said:


> Just a little plastic and 1,500 gals. Takes about 15 minutes to set up and 20 bucks for the plastic.
> 
> 
> 
> http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s35/CNHoney/P1010155_zps61f78fc1.jpg


That would work great Keith! In a no rain situation.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Ian said:


> In a no rain situation.


Ian, I'm from Cali...... what does rain look like?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Homemaid said:


> then fill bucket put the lid on and turn the bucket upside down... Then the little reservoirs fill up and they drink from there..


That is brilliant Homemaid. For me those would not be big enough for fall feeders, but perfect for spring time feeders.


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## MTN-Bees (Jan 27, 2014)

Ian: Can you go over the method with the totes?

I'm looking for an open feeding method for next season.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

115 liter laundry tub, lid with access holes, wood floats to hold the straw, four totes per 36 hive yard

fill er up!


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

peterloringborst said:


> I know about all the different types of feeders. What I was trying to find out is if anyone has compared open barrel feeding to hive top feeding as to how it gets distributed in the hives. Obviously, if you put feed five gallons to each hive directly, each gets five gallons. Whereas if you open barrel feed, some might get more, some less. Anyone compared these methods as to how they affect the hives? Not about how easy one is vs the other.


How different methods affect the hive depends on how strong foragers are from that individual colony. A weak nuc hive will gather less compared to a stronger hive with more foragers.
As mentioned, a weak hive will get a second round. A hive with inside feeder will know that syrup is always there. A frenzy open feeding will have the bees competing
more. At the end it does not matter because the beekeeper still need to assess all the hives for sufficient winter stores. Though it is fun to see them on an open feed.


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## GageFamilyBeekeeping (Mar 10, 2011)

can you show us some pictures of how you use totes


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

I am mimicking what Allen Martens is doing.

http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/IanSteppler/media/IMG_2244_zps8bfed2f8.jpg.html

It provides access while keeping the rain out. The totes are better than barrels as the totes can be stacked and transport much easier. I will pressure wash them after use and stack in the corner of the shed.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

I don't imagine it matters who gets his first when you are feeding till they basically can take no more.


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## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

GageFamilyBeekeeping said:


> can you show us some pictures of how you use totes


There is more pics and the wood float below the straw is interesting. See post #26 in link

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?303410-Fall-feeders/page2


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## swarm_trapper (Jun 19, 2003)

If other bees are in the area how much do you think gets lost to them on open feeding? If the other persons yard is .5mi away your bees can make way more trips in the time that the other bees can. 
I started thinking of this when i noticed that yards that are a half a mile way or so from the flower source make a decent bit less honey, than a yard right on the honey source.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

na, dont use open feeding if your neighbours are half mile away.


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## Allen Martens (Jan 13, 2007)

I don't like to open feeding if other hives are less than a mile and a half away. However, I think you can get away with closer distances, especially for the first feeding. After that scouts from other bee yards might be sniffing around more. 

Last year we stripped some hives just before the September long weekend and I checked the hives on Monday of the long weekend. Corner to corner brood and not a drop of honey. Temperatures were above 30C and another beekeeper had a yard of 80 hives about 3/4 mile away. I fed a gallon per hive and hoped for the best. Much to my surprise the hives increased in weight about what I would have expected.


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## Allen Martens (Jan 13, 2007)

Pete

I agree with Ian that Paul Kelly is correct.

Barrels are not the best method for open feeding in my opinion. Not enough surface area. Opening feeding with enough surface area is very efficient. Bees will empty containers very quickly - a day or so for an average of a gallon and half per hives. Once bees have been trained to open feed they will feed at temperatures as low as 7C. One of the efficiency of opening feeding is the ease of multiple feedings to coincide with the brood hatches and having empty cells available for feed.

One thing I have never witnessed is robbing as a result of open feeding. I have seen bad robbing situations with hive top feeders or hives waiting to be fed. I often place my feeders as little as 5 yards from the hives. I suppose if you open fed in a small yard of weak hives and another yard of very large hives was close by, this might cause a problem, but I have never witnessed this. I have 2 beeyards separated by a couple of hundred yards with no problems. In spring I have 1000+ hives and nucs in one yard and open feeding doesn't insight robbing. Different climate conditions or hive densities might have different results, don't know.

Since I started open feeding I rarely have a larger hive starve during winter. I don't waste feed on small hives or queenless hives.


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## angel (Jul 23, 2013)

One thing I've noticed today while open feeding, is that along with the wooden floats I've placed in the buckets, I've also placed some goldenrod flowers (something for them to land on sticking out of the bucket). After about 4 hours of open feeding I checked the buckets and they were tearing up the goldenrod (more so than the syrup). This caught my interest so I went to another part of the field away from the open feeding and noticed bees were all over the goldenrod. I haven't seen them on goldenrod this year other than today.

So, observation that open feeding could entice foragers to seek out other sources that they wouldn't commonly do? My observation is 100% yes. Bonus nectar/pollen to the hives today.

And to note, 96 pounds of syrup gone in 6 hours.


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## tefer2 (Sep 13, 2009)

115 liter laundry tub.
I'd like to try some of these next year.
Now, where can you buy some?
I've been to 5 stores already with no luck!


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## tefer2 (Sep 13, 2009)

I was able to see that it's made by Rubbermaid, how about a name or model # ?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Walmart, Super Store,


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

tefer: the key is to have a large surface area for every hive you plan to feed. Any container will do. Allen uses the ones he has because they are readily available and are large.

Barrels are good. Allen Dick said 1 drum for every hive as far as surface area is concerned. So a yard of 36 hives would have 3 drums. If you wanted to feed a gallon and a half per hive you would only fill them about a third of the way. The totes Allen M uses have about 2 times the surface area of a drum... reduces robbing. Robbing can get interesting if there are only 2 drums for 100 hives. The hives get a little less than a gallon each if filled but the surface area is too limited. A used bathtub can do the job... probably has three times the surface area of the totes than Allen M uses so according to his formula good for 30 hives. I think a bathtub can hold close to 45 gallons.

Jean-Marc


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## tefer2 (Sep 13, 2009)

Ian said:


> Walmart, Super Store,


Thanks Ian, we'll stop over there today.
I have drum fed last few years, just want something easy to haul.
The tall top looks like the key to these working.


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## tefer2 (Sep 13, 2009)

No luck at Wallyworld. These seem to be hard to find so far!
Can't even get Goggle to find them! :scratch:


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## tefer2 (Sep 13, 2009)

Found these on line, not quite as tall on the lid As Allens.
Still have to order them!
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Rubbermaid-Roughtote-Hinged-Storage-Box-Set-of-6/23450324


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

We feed our hives the same way as Ian does. Quick and efficient. The bees feed on it very fast. 
We used to use the smaller rubber made tubs and buckets and notice a huge difference in hive temperament with these wash tub feeders.

The weaker hives get pails on top just because the wash tubs seem to leave them lagging behind.

Down side...if you have cooler days, rainy days, they do not work as well. If you have other yards close by, you are feeding them too.


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

I've never heard about increasing the surface area to reduce robbing before. Interesting. 

It was my understanding that open feeding within a few hundred yards of the hive induced robbing simply based on the dance language of the bees. If a food source is within 200 yards (depending on the strain of bee, as Von Frich indicated each strain has a slightly different dance language), the bees use the circle dance, as opposed to the more typical figure 8 dance. The figure 8 dance indicates distance and direction to the food source. The circle dance only indicates that a food source is within 200 yards. So scouts look everywhere for the food source, including other hives. Placing the open feeder further than 200 yards away from the hives reduced robbing significantly, as they switched to the figure 8 dance. But the further you move it away, the more likely you're feeding someone else's bees.

Again, that was simply my understanding. But if you guys are able to open feed within 5 yards of the hives without robbing issues, I'm open to hear how.

Other than increasing surface area, any other suggestions on how to open feed without robbing issues? I've also heard you can't let the feeder go dry. That was key to keeping them from fighting. True?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

The biggest key is to have a good strong uniform yard. Kill or move off your dinks. 

Have you ever come across a robbed out hive within a yard? Have you ever noticed how that one hive had been cleaned right out, yet the hives sitting directly beside it is fine? The biggest way to keep robbing from becoming a issue within your bee yard is to keep hives that are able to defend themselves. 

The comment about surface area reducing the fighting does not have much to do with robbing. Its a reference towards the fighting within the feeder, causing massive drownings. When there is lots of surface area, they can line up along the edges and drink without being pushed in.


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## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

I am trying open feeding at my home yard at the moment, I have 28hives and had 18 nucs trying to overwinter. there does not seem to be enough coming in from Golden rod and small white aster, some of my hives are a little light and I need to feed. Even when Jar feeding over the inner cover robbing is a problem, I have robbing screens on everything. Tried feeding a 100lbs of syrup in a tote box with a piece of foam floating on the syrup with many 1 1/2 inch holes in the foam plus a little straw over the top of the foam. Lost about 5 lbs of bees dead in the tote the first day, maybe I need to get trained bees or something. I have since lost 3 of the weakest nucs and I find this time of the year to be very frustrating. I have been trying to find a site close by for rearing nucs as I hope this might help with the robbing problem. Any advice on my problem would be welcome
Johno


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

I've also stayed away from open feeding. I've seen robbing too many times and at this time of year can be devastating. However, the concept sounds awesome. I'd love to manage one or two feeders per yard. I'd like to locate the feeders 100+ yards away, but I can't get that far away from any colony while staying on my property. My main yard, the one that needs the most feeding, is a mix of nucs and production colonies. All nucs are good sized, and with the proper amount of food should easily over winter. My question is: given my scenario, what is the likelihood of success of open feeding at my main yard without total disaster? I've thought about screening in the nucs for a day while I experiment with open feeding just to see the level of chaos that may develop.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

AstroBee, your hives have been able to defend themselves til now, right? Whats going to change if they have open feed available to them?


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## Brandy (Dec 3, 2005)

So, a quick question on the use of straw on the feeders. My thought is a big mess once it gets "sogged" up on the wood floats. Do you replace it with each filling of the feeders?? I've used just wood floats and I can see that once they really get loaded and sink a little I do have a few bees with quite a bit of syrup covering them so would like to keep this mess a little more controlled if possible... My thought is a big mess with the straw? Not so?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Brandy said:


> So, a quick question on the use of straw on the feeders. My thought is a big mess once it gets "sogged" up on the wood floats. Do you replace it with each filling of the feeders?? I've used just wood floats and I can see that once they really get loaded and sink a little I do have a few bees with quite a bit of syrup covering them so would like to keep this mess a little more controlled if possible... My thought is a big mess with the straw? Not so?


I re use the straw throughout the feeding season, it tends to keep dry


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## Brandy (Dec 3, 2005)

Thanks, Ian


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