# Buying pure AI VSH breeder queen from a southern state



## Mosherd1 (Apr 17, 2011)

In the past I purchased a pure VSH breeder queen from Glenn Apiaries, a "dark" VSH. I had great results and well worth the $150, but unfortunately I believe the Glenns have retired. I am looking into other AI pure VSH breeders. My question is since these queens are artificially inseminated, does it matter what climate they come from? In other words, is an AI VSH from a southern breeder less prepared for a northern winter than a northern breeder. I am thinking that since the bees are not openly mated, maybe it does not matter where they are from. I want to be sure before finding a breeder and putting out $200-$250 for a queen. Thanks for the advice and comments,
-Dave


----------



## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

try vp queens in nc or sc. as far as I know he only does breeders and is well established.


----------



## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

It seems that Mike Palmer and Full Bloom Apiaries are selling some queens from Adam Finklestien's breeders... 

http://vpqueenbees.com/purchase/production-queens

http://vpqueenbees.com/purchase/vsh-breeder-queens


----------



## Mosherd1 (Apr 17, 2011)

Thank you, I was actually thinking about them, my concern is that his winters in South Carolina are nowhere near what our winters are up here. Just wondering if that would make a difference. Thanks,
-Dave


----------



## Mosherd1 (Apr 17, 2011)

BeeCurious said:


> It seems that Mike Palmer and Full Bloom Apiaries are selling some queens from Adam Finklestien's breeders...
> 
> http://vpqueenbees.com/purchase/production-queens
> 
> http://vpqueenbees.com/purchase/vsh-breeder-queens


That is great information, I appreciate that, I did not even see that part of his webpage, thanks again,
-Dave


----------



## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

I believe Adam is located in northern Maryland. Personally I think his winters are probably worse than the ones Glenn faced and pretty close to Connecticut.


----------



## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

camero7 said:


> I believe Adam is located in northern Maryland. Personally I think his winters are probably worse than the ones Glenn faced and pretty close to Connecticut.


He relocated to SC..........


----------



## Slow Drone (Apr 19, 2014)

Latshaws Apiaries Ohio


----------



## DPBsbees (Apr 14, 2011)

Slow Drone said:


> Latshaws Apiaries Ohio


$545 each with a minimum of 4 is too rich for my blood.


----------



## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

camero7 said:


> I believe Adam is located in northern Maryland. Personally I think his winters are probably worse than the ones Glenn faced and pretty close to Connecticut.


He re-located to SC to get an earlier season.


----------



## cheezer32 (Feb 3, 2009)

I tried some of Adams vsh breeders this year, so far the daughters have done very well and are looking good. I would recommend them.


----------



## Rusty Hills Farm (Mar 24, 2010)

Okay, maybe I am misunderstanding what I've read but I thought all the original VSH stock came from the USDA in Louisiana. Doesn't that make them ALL "southern stock"-- especially if the AI semen is still coming from the USDA? 

:kn:

Rusty


----------



## Mosherd1 (Apr 17, 2011)

Rusty Hills Farm said:


> Okay, maybe I am misunderstanding what I've read but I thought all the original VSH stock came from the USDA in Louisiana. Doesn't that make them ALL "southern stock"-- especially if the AI semen is still coming from the USDA?
> 
> :kn:
> 
> Rusty


I guess this is my question, would pure VSH stock be able to withstand northern winters?


----------



## AAIndigo (Jun 14, 2015)

Rusty Hills Farm said:


> Okay, especially if the AI semen is still coming from the USDA?
> 
> :kn:
> 
> Rusty


Man that is one loaded quote.


----------



## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Mosherd1 said:


> I guess this is my question, would pure VSH stock be able to withstand northern winters?


I started introducing VSH stock into my operation in 2004. All came from Glenn. After Tom and Suki Glenn retired, I got some breeders from Adam. 

Now, I don't use them every year, and I have more breeders of my own than VSH breeders bought in. I use them to inject some amount of VSH into my stock, and I will say I think it has helped.

Over the years I have gotten pure light and dark VSH, and CarnixVSH/VSHxCarni crosses. I haven't had any difficulty building up the breeder queen colonies after grafting is finished for the year, and wintering them over for use the second year. Their daughters winter well, and I haven't seen anything that would lead me to believe they would winter poorly.


----------



## Mosherd1 (Apr 17, 2011)

Michael Palmer said:


> I started introducing VSH stock into my operation in 2004. All came from Glenn. After Tom and Suki Glenn retired, I got some breeders from Adam.
> 
> Now, I don't use them every year, and I have more breeders of my own than VSH breeders bought in. I use them to inject some amount of VSH into my stock, and I will say I think it has helped.
> 
> Over the years I have gotten pure light and dark VSH, and CarnixVSH/VSHxCarni crosses. I haven't had any difficulty building up the breeder queen colonies after grafting is finished for the year, and wintering them over for use the second year. Their daughters winter well, and I haven't seen anything that would lead me to believe they would winter poorly.


thank you Mike that is exactly what I was looking for. When you over winter the breeder queens do you build them up to 20 frame double deeps or 4 over 4 nucs? Thanks,
-Dave


----------



## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

My breeder queens are set up in this hive. It has a vertical excluder that confines the queen to 3 combs. I start the colony with a nuc. If the queen is from one of my production colonies, I take the queen and nuc from that hive and let the production colony raise a new queen. If she is a purchased breeder queen, I make a nuc and introduce her to it.

_side note_...Found a colony that I used this way years ago. Took the queen and nuc back then. While wrapping this Autumn, my help drew attention to a colony in the Williamson yard. Made 140 pounds and weighed 170 for winter. I asked him if the colony's number was 15. Yep...that was that breeder queen's colony, and her progeny that still goes on and on and on.

Anyway, the breeder box holds 9 combs. At the end of grafting season about mid-July, I move the 9 combs of brood, bees, queen, and honey into a 10 frame box. Then I add a 10 frame deep of brood comb on the bottom board...under the breeder colony. The colony builds up for winter on what is left of the "Main Flow", and the "Fall Flow". They winter well this way.

Of course, the longer you go on grafting from her the less likely they'll build up into a strong colony for wintering.


----------



## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

Michael, 

I'm assuming that the date and time is when you introduced the the frame of comb to the queen... 

Where do those frames end up? In nucs, to be sold the following spring?


----------



## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

The frames of brood get rotated to the far side of the excluder, and when they reach the far side of the box, put to nucs, etc, by then they are pollen and nectar. I add a comb against the excluder on the queen's side every 4 days, because I graft every 4 days from sbout May 20 to July 15.


----------



## scituatema (Aug 30, 2014)

Mr. Palmer, how many queens do you use for your operation in a year ?


----------

