# European Foulbrood: Your experience with Tylan?



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Streptomycin is much more effective on EFB than Terramycin or Tylan, but it's not approved.


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## Eleanor Schumacher (Mar 4, 2013)

I did see that you've said that before...:kn:


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

I lost my only hive last spring to EFB and wax moths in spite of treating with Terramycin. Can't tell you if the Terramycin was not effective or the hive was too far gone to save, my rookie mistake of not feeding it up in the fall probably doomed it anyway.

I suspect the EFB was present in the fall, too and I didn't notice it in time as well -- steep learning curve.

Peter


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## rbees (Jun 25, 2012)

Kind of off topic and just throwing this out the for all who read this thread. The symptoms of EFB and Parasitic mite syndrome are for all practical purposes identical. I've had a few novices and even seasoned beekeepers call me in a panic asking me what to do with what they have diagnosed as EFB, when in reality it is actually PMS.


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## Eleanor Schumacher (Mar 4, 2013)

rbees said:


> Kind of off topic and just throwing this out the for all who read this thread. The symptoms of EFB and Parasitic mite syndrome are for all practical purposes identical. I've had a few novices and even seasoned beekeepers call me in a panic asking me what to do with what they have diagnosed as EFB, when in reality it is actually PMS.


This is true to a degree. That's why it can help to send a sample to Beltsville. It can also hurt to send a sample to Beltsville, because sometimes you get a "No Disease Found" report, and one year later, the EFB has spread.

I'm an "organic" enthusiast. But "organic" isn't practical for beekeepers with 30 or more hives - and these are the people who seem to suffer from EFB. They started out beekeeping as a hobby, got a hold of some old equipment, or did a cut-out, brought the EFB home, and a few years later, its taking down half of the hives. At that stage, its time to clean the disease out for good - or take the blame for contaminating the environment.

After looking around, I've decided that THIS is what I'm going to prescribe as the EFB treatment. It's a lot of work, but it looks to be the most effective. Here's the link:

http://www.extension.org/pages/23697/shook-swarm-and-otc-antibiotics-for-european-foulbrood-control


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## Eleanor Schumacher (Mar 4, 2013)

Here's the text:

The Shook Swarm and Oxytetracycline (Terramycin) Method

Research Summary

Citation: Waite, R. J., Brown, M. A., Thompson, H. M., Bew, M. H. (2003). Controlling European foulbrood with the shook swarm method and oxytetracycline in the UK. Apidologie 34: 569-575.

Web Link:Controlling European foulbrood with the shook swarm method and oxytetracycline in the UK.

Brief Description: In the United Kingdom, where this study occurred, European foulbrood (EFB) is a regulated disease. Typically, infected colonies can be treated with the antibiotic oxytetracycline (OTC), if the colony is determined to be able to respond to treatment. When the infection is severe, the colony is destroyed. The objective of this study was to determine if the shook swarm method combined with the antibiotic, OTC could be as effective at controlling the disease as OTC treatment alone.

The tested method involves shaking all the bees off the combs in EFB infected hives. The queen is caged separately and released with the workers later. The shaken bees are put on new or contaminate free equipment and foundation. The contaminated combs were destroyed. Once on new equipment, the bees were fed sugar syrup containing the antibiotic, OTC. The method to do this was to fill a 250 ml jar with 1kg table sugar and 568 ml of water. 1g of OTC (active ingredient) was added to the syrup. This was then sprinkled into cells on empty frames next to the brood nest, avoiding open brood. The concentrated solution will kill open brood, but should not cause problems once diluted by worker bees. Eight weeks later, the colonies were inspected for clinical signs of disease. Control colonies were fed OTC the same way, but the shook swarm method was not used.

During the season after treatment, most colonies responded well to both the control and shook swarm methods. Some colonies died that season, or became reinfected, but both methods seemed overall effective. The following season however showed different results. Control colonies treated with OTC alone became reinfected at the level of 21.1%. Colonies treated with OTC and the shook swarm method became reinfected only about at 4.8%. However, 4 of the shook swarm colonies died while only 2 of the control colonies died. The total number of colonies in the trial was 50.

Implications: The authors suggest that this is a promising method to control EFB and was well received by the beekeepers in the study. (Reviewer's note: Other studies describe the problem of recurrence of EFB in subsequent years. Methods to reduce recurrence are likely to be important in problematic EFB areas.) The authors point out that American foulbrood control has not been as successful with this method. This study only suggests this method is successful for the control of EFB.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Isn't requeening a recommended method of addressing EFB?


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

Errr.... Read the label...for AFB only. Using Tylan for efb is offlabel and illegal in the u.s.

Deknow


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## Eleanor Schumacher (Mar 4, 2013)

deknow said:


> Errr.... Read the label...for AFB only. Using Tylan for efb is offlabel and illegal in the u.s.
> 
> Deknow


What d'ya know, Deknow, I never noticed that (never have used Tylan myself). I've just looked at it in the Dadant catalog, it says "use for foulbrood" and doesn't differentiate between one or the other. But not so on the label. "American Foulbrood" is says, and that's all.

Yes, Mark B, re-queening is said to be part of the treatment usually, but not in this study that I found and like. They cage her and re-introduce her. To me, it would make more sense to re-queen, because obviously she is not laying EFB resistant bees, and also, she must have the disease as well, being fed the same EFB tainted food. So that's a good point.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Do you have a copy of "Pests, Predators, and Diseases of Honeybees"? You should get a copy and familiarize yourself w/ the disease. I'm not at home, so I can't grab it off of the shelf and tell you what it says about EFB.


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

I don't think anyone who actually looked at brood frames would mistake EFB for PMS. EFB is characterized by "melted" larvae before capping, which makes for cells filled with milky white slime that can pour out when the frame is tilted far enough. The dead brood will eventually solidify into a brown, rubbery scale that the bees will remove form the cells and discard -- this is what twigged me to the problem I had, rubbery scales on the sticky board since they fit through the screen on my SBB. 

There is also a fishy smell (dead fish). 

None of this is present in PMS, the brood looks normal until it's capped. In PMS, you get short lived bees that vanish over the winter, or bees with deformed wings or Israeli paralysis, etc, not melted brood.

Be that as it may, EFB appears to be gone from my hives, no problems this year at all. 

Not an expert or researcher here, just my observations.

Peter


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## Eleanor Schumacher (Mar 4, 2013)

Peter, I've found that PMS can look like EFB. Sometimes EFB only shows minor symptoms, just a few random dying larva. Or sometimes PMS can makes several frames look pretty raggedy and shotgun with plenty of dead unsealed larva. These can look similar - larva losing shape, turning spotty and brown. I sample it and send it to Beltsville.

I was looking at some EFB yesterday. Its really popping up around here - and I think its because the queens are laying more productively than the workers are able to forage nectar. Our spring has been very slow, cool, and wet. I was looking at a hive, and I wondered if it was a hive that was resisting EFB: the larva looked skinny. I wonder about these yards with EFB - if the beekeepers were really pouring the feed to them (sugar water) to make up for the sluggish nectar flow, would I be seeing so much EFB? I don't think I would.


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

If someone with your experience thinks they can be confused, I suspect that they can. 

From what I've read and absorbed from the local beekeepers, EFB is very rare around here -- in fact, the guy down the road a couple miles has never seen it bad enough to have it diagnosed, had to explain to him what it was. I suspect it's like wax moths -- always present but unseen unless there is some other stress. Under those conditions, it becomes obvious enough to see and cause trouble in the hive. Sugar with no protein might also cause some trouble, I'd think.

The hive I lost to EFB suffered through a beginning beekeeper in a very long dearth (no rain from June to November and not enough feed in the fall, kept them alive with a candy board for the winter) followed by a weird spring -- summer in March, winter returning in April. Goofy all round.

So far I don't appear to have mite problems, but we shall see. Losses to mites are still a problem in this part of the woods.

Peter


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## Eleanor Schumacher (Mar 4, 2013)

psfred said:


> If someone with your experience thinks they can be confused, I suspect that they can.


Chuckle, chuckle. The more I learn, the less I know. There are a lot of ways to interpret the bees and their ailments, that's for sure.

We share the same climate - I'm not far from you. If you had EFB in your area, your local beekeepers would be seeing it, because, in my theory, the lateness of blooms and the sluggish spring are making it hard for workers to keep up with queens. This is why I can't completely agree that "EFB is always present in hives to some degree." Because it should just pop up all over the place in this kind of cold, wet spring - but it pops up in specific places: in yards where beekeepers eagerly increased (swapping in frames of drawn comb from inconclusive deadouts, or buying used equipment and putting bees right in it without boiling it out, etc.) or it drifts and gets picked up in swarms and cutouts, or robberies. 

That's why this wanna-bee organic lady is going to make strong suggestions in favor of this terramycin/shook swarm/re-queening method for every hive with EFB. The hives that don't clear up after that, I think should be burnt. Why goof around with sick bees?

BTW - I would think you could feed sugar water this time of year without pollen supplement. Don't you have more pollen than you need? We sure do. Its been a great spring for the purple deadnettle. Nectar can be harder to come by in a wet spring - some flowers get washed out and it can take a day to replenish.


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

Given that my bees are coming in so full of nectar even I can tell, I don't think feeding except for splits is either necessary or desirable.

Lots of pollen, certainly. Enough I can smell the "bee bread" so strong I though something was wrong until I did my first inspection of the year, been too cold on the days I can get to them (working full time is a pain). 

It is difficult, especially for beginners and people with only a few hives, to correctly diagnose what's wrong, or even tell if something is wrong. I have a friend who burns the frames and comb if he can't tell what caused a hive to die on the assumption that it's safer, but I'd prefer to know why the hive died out for several reasons. First, if it's preventable, I'd rather keep my bees, it's hard to get honey with empty hives. Second, it's a great waste of resources to burn all the frames in a hive because the bees had mites. Neither the mites nor the viral diseases they vector will survive without bees, so there is no reason to discard all that comb if PMS was the real problem.

I suppose the shook swarm/requeen would help, but the bees carry the bacteria for EFB from what I've read, they will carry it right along, requiring antibiotic treatment. AFB is transmitted by spores, and they are not carried by the bees -- that's why shook swarm/clean equipment works for AFB, you can eliminate the spores. Not much point in doing a shook swarm with EFB since antibiotic treatment should eliminate the bacteria anyway, unless they are very persistent on the comb.

I'll be watching to see what others have to say on the subject. I like my nice healthy bees!

Peter


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

Have you confirmed that the symptoms you are seeing are in fact, EFB infections (tested at Beltsville)?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Eleanor Schumacher said:


> Chuckle, chuckle. The more I learn, the less I know. There are a lot of ways to interpret the bees and their ailments, that's for sure.
> 
> We share the same climate - I'm not far from you. If you had EFB in your area, your local beekeepers would be seeing it, because, in my theory, the lateness of blooms and the sluggish spring are making it hard for workers to keep up with queens. This is why I can't completely agree that "EFB is always present in hives to some degree." Because it should just pop up all over the place in this kind of cold, wet spring - but it pops up in specific places: in yards where beekeepers eagerly increased (swapping in frames of drawn comb from inconclusive deadouts, or buying used equipment and putting bees right in it without boiling it out, etc.) or it drifts and gets picked up in swarms and cutouts, or robberies.
> 
> ...


Don't take this the wrong way Eleanor. What kind of training does IL provide their Inspectors? Does IL have a list of standard recommendations to address diseases and pests?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

psfred said:


> I suppose the shook swarm/requeen would help, but the bees carry the bacteria for EFB from what I've read, they will carry it right along, requiring antibiotic treatment. AFB is transmitted by spores, and they are not carried by the bees -- that's why shook swarm/clean equipment works for AFB, you can eliminate the spores. Not much point in doing a shook swarm with EFB since antibiotic treatment should eliminate the bacteria anyway, unless they are very persistent on the comb.
> 
> Peter


The bees carry the bacteria for EFB in their digestive system, so shook swarm tech. should be effective. I agree it isn't necassary, since antibiotics should take care of the EFB infection. A new queen and a strong nectar flow will take care of things too. The bees can get ahead of the infection.

I don't know what you mean by AFB being "not carried by the bees".

As far as I know, burning combs is not recommended or necassary w/ an EFB infection.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

More to the point (I think), this is a 10 year old study you are looking at for guidance. Have you talked to anyone that has tried or used this protocall?
If you think this might be an effective and worthwhile treatment option based only on a study you read, you should not be recommending that others follow it....especially in the capacity of bee inspector.
At he very least, contacting the study authors would let you know if they still think it's a good protocol.
Deknow


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Are EFB combs infectious? What should be done with EFB die outs? I have a stack sitting on top of an EFB hive that recovered strongly with Terramycin treatment. Only about 25% of treated hives recovered, the rest died over winter with plenty of stores. Does extracting EFB brood chambers spread 
EFB through to other equipment during the extracting process? Is EFB spread through extracting supers?


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## Eleanor Schumacher (Mar 4, 2013)

Peter: The law in Illinois is to burn all hives with AFB, so surely I wouldn't recommend a shook swarm - and thinking about it, I don't see why bees couldn't carry AFB with them when shaking onto new frames. AFB is a spore-forming bacterium - its in their food. The nurse bees are carrying food, so why wouldn't they be holding microscopic spores in the food they're carrying when they are randomly shaken? You can't tell the bees to "stop carrying their food" - "Bees, put down your food, I'll be shaking you down in about 5 minutes." Of course, you're shaking them onto foundation, so where will they put that food? No where to store it on foundation. Do they keep it in their crop until the foundation is drawn? Or do they consume it in the process of creating wax? Where do the spores go in the live bee? Are the spores excreted? Where do nurse bees excrete - they can't fly.

Mark: "What kind of training does IL provide their Inspectors? Does IL have a list of standard recommendations to address diseases and pests?" 
Illinois hires beekeepers to be inspectors - there are 8 of us. We're hired based on beekeeping experience, recommendation, how well we get along with our beekeeping community, resume, map, paperwork and people skills, and what we demonstrate for our beekeeping knowledge base. When we're hired, we work along side an experienced apiary inspector until that inspector feels we're ready to go out on our own. 

As far as a list of standard recommendations, we need to be more "fluid" than that, because there are few "silver bullets" in beekeeping. Science changes everyday with the findings of studies. Inspectors try to help each other by sharing what the latest "understanding" of a pest or disease is, based on reading studies, websites, books, magazine articles, and field observations.

Inspecting bees is beekeeping in hyper-mode. You see every kind of problem, in every place. Somethings you see defy what you "know" and what you've learned. You see contradictions in the field. But mostly, you see a lot of cause and effect. Our job is to be helpful - identify problems and recommend a variety of legal treatments.

The training is ongoing and constant, because there are always new findings in beekeeping -and there so many approaches, and combinations of approaches. Its always a race to absorb and process information and observation, to get to the bottom of an issue and find the "number one" recommendation. That number one recommendation can be elusive at times. This is why I'm here on beesource, its a good place to stir up every single possibility that exists. I'm not satisfied with my current recommendation for EFB, because it returns year after year to some apiaries, and doesn't others. Some people use Tylan, some use Tetra-B. Some use Terramycin - but did they use enough - or do enough treatments? Nobody has done the shook swarm method in my area. Nobody wants to sacrifice the drawn comb. But now I'm going to recommend it in conjunction with Terramycin, because that 10 year old study had really good success rates.

Deknow: I'm looking for studies that are solid. New does not mean solid. I haven't yet found a study that shows me another legal method that proved effective, especially one that I can recommend in the field. There are some very interesting studies out there. Michael Bush has some links on here to a study about the Lactic Acid Bacterial balance in the honey bee crop, and how this complex balance has potentially been thrown off by antibiotic treatment of foulbrood. If I lived in a state where it was legal to play with diseases in my apiary, maybe I would consider conducting experiments of my own. But in Illinois, what you legally may and may not use inside a hive as a treatment for pests/diseases is very regimented. But I can ask you what your experience is, and hopefully learn something.

Odfrank: This quote from a publication on the University of Illinois Extension website sums up what I experience to be true: "The bacteria that causes EFB does not produce spores, but combs contaminated with the bacteria can still reinfect honey bees in subsequent years." http://www.extension.org/pages/2369...a-bacterial-disease-affecting-honey-bee-brood

How long before you can use comb from an EFB hive? This I don't know. Anybody? I know there are treatment free beekeepers who don't worry about EFB staying in the comb - and logically, how could it? How could a bacteria survive in a wax/propollis environment, when propollis has antibiotic properties? But my observation was that it can remain viable in comb for a few years. I haven't found an explanation for it. I'm looking for one.


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## NYSSOI (Feb 6, 2010)

May I suggest the website NYBeeWellness.org, http://nybeewellness.org/ ? Funded by the USDA and the Empire State Honey Producers.
The site relies heavily on the Penn State Field Guide (PDF), eXtension.org, and the Ontario Beekeepers. All the links are there for beekeepers to get a start on identifying honeybee disease.
In New York, bee inspectors are not available for ~90% of beekeepers, so they need to be self reliant: read the suggested material on the website, send samples (links provided), ask a second opinion, etc.
The eXtension.org link provides up to date, science based info--- you can even send them a question, and links to other sites such as BeeInformed.org.
Remember: Every beekeeper should know their mite count, it is quick and easy to-- see NYBeeWellness.org


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## Eleanor Schumacher (Mar 4, 2013)

That's a great website, and great what you're doing. Thank you so much for sending the link.

I hadn't realized that all of the extensions were linked together online, and I hadn't been to that chronological list of studies until now. So helpful! So cool.

For the record, the more I've read, and the more people I've talked to this week, I still think that for beekeepers who have time, the link I listed a couple days ago is the clearest way towards eliminating EFB: terramycin and shook swarm combination. Other people I've talked to who don't have time or resources for shook swarm say they just use terramycin.

It does seem like time for some fresh studies on EFB. Are there strains that are resistant to terramycin? How wide spread and where? This is the study I'm looking for now.


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