# Beehive Plans on Beesource



## deBeaupre (Jun 29, 2015)

Hi all. I'm new to beekeeping and I plan to start next spring. Until then I'm reading books about bees and I'm attempting to build my own equipment. Using the plans found here on this site I attempted to model the 10 frame hive and the DADANT frames in CAD. I build everything in CAD quickly to find errors and generate questions. Here is my result:






I found that when all the frames are inserted into the hive, there is a 1 inch space left. Is this normal? Should I widen the frames but leave a little bit of wiggle room? Does anyone have a proven set of plans that I could use to build my first hives? Cheers All.

Sorry the picture isnt great. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1751328588427642&set=gm.1075166769167907&type=1&theater


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

Go to Beesource.com (not the / forum), click on the bee in the upper part. Go to ‘Build it Yourself’ and be amazed. For building your own frames do a search for Frames are easy, or building frames. The google search in the main page seems to give me better results than the search or advanced search on the forum page.
One of the best part about this hobby is making sawdust!


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

Keep in mind that Canadian made equipment has the same internal dimensions, but is made of 7/8" stock not 3/4". This means that you need to allow some extra clearance on your telescoping covers. Unless you have a nearly free source of wood, the economics of building your own boxes just don't work. Covers and bottom boards can be worth building yourself if you have time. Frames are definitely not worth bothering with. They take long enough just to assemble.


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## my2cents (Jul 9, 2015)

Michael bush points out in a post I recently read of his, where he stated a 8 frame hive can hold 9 frames and a 10 frame can hold 11 frames, if shaved ever so slightly.
Point being, there is extra room in all boxes. The first boxes I owned were old and I could get 9 frames in them. But, 9 frames makes them difficult to work.
I read somewhere also, the width of a frame can be 1 1/4 to 1 3/8 inches. So a 1/8 inch variance over 10 frames is approximately 1 inch.


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

Cut list for dummies.
http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/cut-list-for-the-tenframe-langstroth-hive.html

I don't make finger joints and a lot of the stuff in them plans but the inside dimensions are what you need to pick out of there and use.
If you are using anything but 3/4" wood, you'll need to change everything to Canadian or whatever.


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

deBeaupre said:


> Hi all. I'm new to beekeeping and I plan to start next spring. Until then I'm reading books about bees and I'm attempting to build my own equipment. Using the plans found here on this site I attempted to model the 10 frame hive and the DADANT frames in CAD. I build everything in CAD quickly to find errors and generate questions. Here is my result:
> View attachment 20343
> I found that when all the frames are inserted into the hive, there is a 1 inch space left. Is this normal? Should I widen the frames but leave a little bit of wiggle room? Does anyone have a proven set of plans that I could use to build my first hives? Cheers All.
> 
> Sorry the picture isnt great. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1751328588427642&set=gm.1075166769167907&type=1&theater


Yes, it is normal to have an extra space of about an inch when you put new frames into a new box. That is wiggle room and if you don't include it you will roll bees getting the first frame out. It took me a while to understand what the question was. Sorry

A box is 14.75" wide. Ten frames are 14" wide so there is 3/4" extra.
Might ask where does the 3/4" come from...two bee spaces is exactly 3/4".


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## deBeaupre (Jun 29, 2015)

Hey Minz, thats where I grabbed the plans from. http://www.beesource.com/build-it-yourself/ Is it possible that the frame plans do not work well with the 10 frame hive box plans? 1" extra space sounds like its reasonable from other posts below.


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## deBeaupre (Jun 29, 2015)

Ah! Thanks my2cents - I recently listened to a Michael Bush youtube video where he said something like that about shaving down the sides of the frames. Pax Vobiscum.


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## deBeaupre (Jun 29, 2015)

Thanks Aunt Betty! I will check those dimensions with the ones from beesource. Cheers!


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

Hello deBeaupre, and Welcome to Beesource!

The idea is to have "beespace", between 1/4 and 3/8 inch between each frame. Beespace is the amount of room it takes for 2 bees to pass each other back-to-back on separate frames of comb. It varies in Nature, and is often given as 5/16 inch, but it actually varies from colony to colony. 

A standard 10-frame Langstroth setup is 14 3/4 inches wide on the inside. The frames should fit about 5/16 inch apart when fully drawn. That's 10 frames and 11 bee spaces. Mine tend to come out a bit tighter spacing than that, but every hive, "race" or "subspecies", and area can have different results.

The post about Michael Bush's using 11 frames in a 10-frame box is the idea that the foundation wax we beekeepers tend to place in frames is a bit large. The hexagons measure 5.4 mm across. So some one started making hexagons with 4.9 mm across, and then they decreased the beespace to use 11 frames each 1 1/4" wide. This was done in an attempt top control parasitic mites called varroa destructor. One advantage is that you can get more bees in the same box.

Other beekeepers actually increase the beespace and use only 9 frames in a 10-frame hive box. The idea is that you kill fewer bees when you inspect the box than if you had all 10 frames in it. If your bees are a bit mean, you might consider this trick - they just might behave better. All things beekeeping have repercussions - usually there is more bridge comb built if one increases beespace.

Best of luck to you, but DO expect failures and keep on adding bees to empty boxes. A few years down the road, you'll be getting it. Ten years down the road, you'll be a bonafide journeyman beekeeper. 40 years from now, the bees will come ask you, "Hey, should we swarm or pack honey away for the winter?"


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Welcome to Beesource, _deBeaupre_!


The Beesource frame and hive body plans you referenced are fine just as they are, assuming you are planning on a standard 10 frame box. :thumbsup:


While the narrow frames (1.25") mentioned by _kilocharlie _are used by some beekeepers, typically that 1.25" spacing (11 frames per box) is maintained only in the brood nest area. Normally those narrow frames would be spaced out in the honey supers to achieve 9 frames per box. If you aren't planning on a narrow frame brood nest area, then keeping to the standard 1.375" frame width is what I suggest is the best course of action.

Keep in mind that while new frames and new boxes may seem to have extra space, after your bees propolize everything that "extra" space will be welcome. 


More info on 'narrow" frames can be found here: http://www.bushfarms.com/beesframewidth.htm


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## Munson (Mar 16, 2014)

When I came up with the idea I was going to make my own woodware I looked at the commercial hives I have purchased or would purchase (Dadant, Mann Lake, Freeman SBB, and Dux4life on ebay) to make sure any top feeder or slatted rack or telescoping cover or freeman beetle trap trays would be the exactly the same dimensions as what I built. I also purchased both books on hive building and read everything else in existence on the net. The book from dummies is correct on dimensions. It got so dog eared I purchased a second book. I keep one at the table saw, annotated. Tony Pisaon's book not so much because my joints are box joints. Tony's book is better on describing some things. I purchased a second book of it because I thought I lost the first. Both books assume you have 3/4" lumber and not 7/8. The dummie's book is the correct book if you are going to use a box joint and keep in mind for your plans that dado blades are 3/4" wide. The hardest thing is coming up with local quality lumber. Build the bottoms from cypress.


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## deBeaupre (Jun 29, 2015)

Right on Munson! I'm sitting on leftover piles of white and red Canadian cedar. Probably enough for 5-6 deeps, 10-12 mediums, frames will be made from poplar - all from my previous employment as a finish carpenter.:thumbsup:

Radar Sidetrack - Bush Farms website is bookmarked for later tonight with sleepy time tea!


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

"Is this normal?"

Yes.

"Should I widen the frames but leave a little bit of wiggle room?"

No. Cheers,


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> The Beesource frame and hive body plans you referenced are fine just as they are, assuming you are planning on a standard 10 frame box. :thumbsup


I agree w/ Rader, having built a couple hundred boxes to those plans, as well as screened bottom boards, inner covers and telescoping outer covers. About the only modification I found necessary to make is to reinforce the bottom board side rails by adding cross pieces below the slots for the slide-in close-off. This prevents the side rails from rolling and collapsing under the weight of a booming hive. I also usually make the telescoping rim pieces a little deeper to help with wind issues should I forget to put a stone on top when I'm done.

The 7/8" lumber thickness is not unique to Canada. While most manufacturers stick to 3/4", some US companies insist on using the thicker wood. Some of the first boxes that I bought were made of 7/8" and I think they may have come from Betterbee, though I cannot be certain.

I've also made many, many frames per the plans on Beesource. These frames work just fine with the boxes built to the plans here. (And no. I will not listen to any more of the arguments, which I know are coming, about why I should have spent my after-tax dollars to buy them instead of making them in my spare time, using free wood and the tools I already have in the shop, using efficient, mass-production techniques. I have thousands of frames that cost me nothing except for the glue and wire brads and the electricity to run the tools. Save your argument to convince yourself to spend your own money, not mine, and that it is not worth your while to learn how to work efficiently even should you have the skills, the tools, a source of free cut-offs and all the time in the world.)

Welcome to Beesource deBeaupre! Summer is for making honey. Winter is for making sawdust!

Wayne


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## deBeaupre (Jun 29, 2015)

Riverderwent - Perfect thank you.


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## deBeaupre (Jun 29, 2015)

waynesgarden said:


> (And no. I will not listen to any more of the arguments, which I know are coming, about why I should have spent my after-tax dollars to buy them instead of making them in my spare time, using free wood and the tools I already have in the shop, using efficient, mass-production techniques. I have thousands of frames that cost me nothing except for the glue and wire brads and the electricity to run the tools. Save your argument to convince yourself to spend your own money, not mine, and that it is not worth your while to learn how to work efficiently even should you have the skills, the tools, a source of free cut-offs and all the time in the world.)
> 
> Welcome to Beesource deBeaupre! Summer is for making honey. Winter is for making sawdust!
> 
> Wayne


No arguement from me. I love building things out of wood. I'm more excited about making the hives than actually having to care for the bees at this point. LOL


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