# reflectix - "bubble foil" insulation as an inner cover?



## purvisgs (Apr 5, 2008)

A commercial beek in my area -PNW usa- uses reflectix brand (silver-mylar coated bubble wrap) insulation cut to the size of a hive body as an inner cover, year round. he uses migratory tops, from what I recall, doesn't really provide any upper ventilation.

I am considering using this stuff underneath my flat plywood (and also migratory) tops, but I am concerned about ventilation and condensation build up. It seems like this material would be prone to collecting condensation, and I am not quite sure how to best provide some sort of upper ventilation...

I am particularly excited about using it stapled to the central divider as an inner cover over a double nuc- I don't foresee any ventilation issues in these because I have entrance on one side and screened vents on the other, cross flow.



anyone use this stuff w/ bees? 

From my limited tests of reflectix, it seems difficult to provide an upper vent... the material will conform slightly to fill any gaps by a popsicle stick/ etc, I'd rather not drill holes in the boxes... 

how would you go abot providing upper ventilation with this stuff?

thank you!


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## brooksbeefarm (Apr 13, 2008)

*Ventilation*

All my hives have screen bottomboards,I also have 3 inch deep top feeders with a 3/8 inch shim on the bottom of it, with a 2 inch gap in the front for a top entrance and leave them on year round.I also use a migratory lid.I have been using this setup for 5yrs. with know problems.When I started this some beeks. in our club said the bees would fill the top feeder full of burr comb if left empty, but they haven!t.Good luck and I hope you get some more ideas.


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

Our local bee supply had one one display. The double bubble foil was on the outside of the inner lid, and ceiling tile on the inside. for condensation. We have used ceiling tile for several years now and had great results. This will be the first year using the double bubble however.
We still have an opennig at the bottom and at the top for air flow


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

it is suggested in a lot of old literature (bee journals) that insulation at the top of the stack that does not allow for ventilation is likely a very very bad idea. some 'authorities' actally suggested that any insulation 'above' was likely of little benefit (ie how can heat retention aid a hive in overwintering???). most of these 'authorities' also seem to agree that adding vents at the top of the stack that allowed or encouraged drafts were likely counterproductive (in the best case) to lethal (in the worse case).

so it would appear (based strickly on what I have read and not on how I do) that where you place the 'insulating' material is acually of great concern... and most especially if that insulation is totally impermeable like bubble wrap.


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## France (Apr 5, 2007)

It is interesting how this subject keeps popping up every Fall..?
Granted, much of this has been discussed yearly for at least the last hundred years, if not a little longer.
I have been fooling around with bees for the last 53 years - on two continents! almost half of this time on commercial level... I would not even think about wintering bees without a tar-paper wrap and some kind of insulation on the top of the hive!
Remember that until not too long ago, beeks in our parts of the country had killed off their bees before winter. Now they are successfully overwintered well up to Alaska in with not with much trouble even in Nordic countries of Europe!
(I use 2" Styrofoam on top of the 1/2" homasote/ceiling tile, all this ofcourse on top of inner cover, with centre hole opened!)
I used to wrap them - two together - with 2" Styrofoam on the north side and 1" on east and west, with nothing but the Western cardboard wintering cases over that. This black cardboard case would be in front side tight against the front of the hive - for solar gain!
(And I didn't loose any hives for years, until last winter when I tried this "much hyped" practice of giving them dry sugar on top for the winter. (we all know that dry sugar method is for emergency only - suck on it or starve sort of thing!? 
It sounds "queer," but I tried it on three hives. (deep down I knew that I was committing them to death?!)
As luck would have it, this two particular hives were on the sun - and bees left the cluster and sat on top of the sugar - when sun hid - our terrible could caught them and they could not make it back to the cluster and they all DIED with super and a half of good honey beside them! 
The one other hive with a pile of white stuff on it - overwintered with no trouble. But they were in the shade under a tree and they did not go on top of the sugar at all - they went at it from the bottom up!

So, half of the bees perished on the sugar. The cluster was now cut on half and they did not menage to generate enough heat to move an inch or two over on new stores - and they also perished. 
Well, they say that when one quits learning - one quits living!?

Now, in your parts, winters are nothing like ours - especialy not like our last two!? Last one with temps down to -46 and around -35 to -40 for almost two months!

I know for a fact, that if the top of the hive is not insulated - the bees are doomed!
The warm air in the hive collects under the rim, of whatever you have for the cover, and when warm comes in contact with cold it condenses and forms ice! When things warm up, either on the sun or due to time of the year, this ice will melt and water will drip on the bees - that will do them in - GUARANTEED. . .

Insulate the top! 
Ceiling tile, homasote or any other fibrous board is a must, to trap the humidity and dissipate it out via the outer edges! 
A 3/8" by two or so inches wide entrance MUST be cut into the rim of the inner-board - or into whatever you have up there! (Don't drill holes in the boxes! This is amateurish and downright stupid thing to do! Firstly it only invites mice!? Secondly there is no humidity around the area of handholds? Humidity is at the uppermost top of the hive. If humidity is such that it will be venting out the hole at the handhold - the bees are goners already. Half the cluster will be wet - so try to keep that dry and cozy?
All this, entrances, MUST be on the same side of the hive! To form a chimney effect and not a cross draft, if bottom has entrance in front and top ventilation is on the back!

For those of you who have cross ventilation and it works - it is not because of your smarts! It is so solely by pure luck, that your winters are mild enough, etc, etc!?
If it comes, one unusually cold one, or longer, colder period, your bees will be gone - guaranteed!

Don't wrap - is OK. But not having top entrance, for humidity to escape, is a bad thing in locales where temperatures go much below zero and worse if they do so for extended time...

Bubble wrap? For the life of me - I can't think why one would want to fool around with it? 
Is this stuff holding some magic spell on people? 
Is it "catchy" because it looks cool or hip? 
Or is it cause nobody else has it an one wants to be the first one on the block to have it?

I'm sure that your bees don't give a s..t about it! 
I, for one, fill sorry for the poor creatures for being forced to live under that stuff, especialy when it starts dripping on them. . . .

And please fix that cross ventilation. Cold air blowing across the cluster and brood later on, is not a good thing at all...


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## sierrabees (Jul 7, 2006)

The only trouble I have had with Reflectex is that I stapled it to the inside of the cover and it took up the bee space above the top super. Of course the bees filled what space was left with propolis which does slow down the Spring inspections and get them a little more riled up while you are trying to get the cover off. It works better to put it on top of the cover. Life is a process of making as many mistakes as you can and learning from them, unless that is, you can learn from someone else's mistakes.


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## purvisgs (Apr 5, 2008)

ok- sounds like most comments are negative about this stuff-
but- anyone who actually has experience with reflectix- thoughts regarding moisture / condensation build up?


how would you go about insulating boxes that have top beespace and flat plywood cover? this is what I have and it has worked pretty well with no insulation in the past, but I would like to try to insulate some boxes this year to compare

also, how to best provide top ventilation with these same flat tops (some boxes have only top entrance with shims (ie m bush)) but others with bottom entrance I have in the past just inserted a small stick (popsicle stick thickness) in one corner and let the bees glue up what they didn't want...

regarding cross ventilation: we have very wet winters here and the snow doesn't stick around for more than a few days (if we even get any) It is pretty wet and probably lowest temp of the year will be in the 20's...

thoughts on cross ventilation vs one sided (I have generally always used cross, I guess) in this type of climate?

thanks for the input

hope I am not beating this topic to death here- I searched the archives for reflectix and found nothing...


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## sierrabees (Jul 7, 2006)

Check my last post. Not intended to be negative, just to point out mistakes that I made. If you put it on the outside of the hive rather than the inside it insulates just as well and can be left on all summer to help the bees regulate temp in hot weather.


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## dug_6238 (May 9, 2007)

France said:


> ...(And I didn't loose any hives for years, until last winter when I tried this "much hyped" practice of giving them dry sugar on top for the winter...
> It sounds "queer," but I tried it on three hives...two particular hives were on the sun - and bees left the cluster and sat on top of the sugar - when sun hid - our terrible could caught them and they could not make it back to the cluster and they all DIED with super and a half of good honey beside them!
> The one other hive with a pile of white stuff on it - overwintered with no trouble...they did not go on top of the sugar at all - they went at it from the bottom up!
> 
> So, half of the bees perished on the sugar. The cluster was now cut on half and they did not menage to generate enough heat to move an inch or two over on new stores - and they also perished...


Sounds like some problems with the application of the feed. Some things can go wrong, just as with any other management. As you said, your other colony ate through the sugar from the bottom up - this is how it's supposed to work. You said the other two colonies went to the top of the sugar pile - what did you put on the top bars for the sugar to sit on? Also, were these two hives allowed adequate ventilation, and how hard was the bottom of the sugar pack when you dismantled it? Was it absolutely hard as a rock? 

Also, I can't tell exactly from your description how you applied the feed and how your hive was laid out. I'm trying to picture where the cluster would have ended their life to be situated beside a super and a half of honey. Perhaps if you can post some photos of how you had this set up, someone can diagnose what went wrong. The only time you should find any dead bees on top of the sugar pile should be possibly a few dead robber bees. If applied correctly the cluster should always access the sugar pile from underneath eating/tunneling a dome-shaped opening into the bottom if the sugar pile. I know it's not what anyone wants to ever hear, but bees on top of the sugar pile and a small dead cluster can sometimes mean that a weak hive was being robbed out through a top entrance...this is one of a few scenarios that could produce what you're talking about.

Do you have any photos that were taken when you added the sugar or when you dismantled this hive?


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

france writes:
Now, in your parts, winters are nothing like ours - especialy not like our last two!? Last one with temps down to -46 and around -35 to -40 for almost two months

purvisgs writes:
we have very wet winters here and the snow doesn't stick around for more than a few days (if we even get any) It is pretty wet and probably lowest temp of the year will be in the 20's...

tecumseh:
except for the duration of cool spells it sounds like (sounds even stange while I write this) you winters are a bit more like mine than where france resides.

if you do not have very long and very very cold episodes throughout the winter I would guess that only minimal winter preperation is necessary. 

much like france it seems to me the foil pack idea may be fashionable but likely represent limited real advantage no matter where you reside.

ps... a couple of years back I decided that I needed to insulate my migratory tops from the brutal texas sun so I cut foil back foam insulation and glued this to the top of my covers. the made for quite a nice place for the small hive beetle to loiter... it didn't seem to assist the bee as far as I could tell.


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## France (Apr 5, 2007)

dug_6238 said:


> Sounds like some problems with the application of the feed. Some things can go wrong, just as with any other management. As you said, your other colony ate through the sugar from the bottom up - this is how it's supposed to work. You said the other two colonies went to the top of the sugar pile - what did you put on the top bars for the sugar to sit on? Also, were these two hives allowed adequate ventilation, and how hard was the bottom of the sugar pack when you dismantled it? Was it absolutely hard as a rock?
> 
> Also, I can't tell exactly from your description how you applied the feed and how your hive was laid out. I'm trying to picture where the cluster would have ended their life to be situated beside a super and a half of honey. Perhaps if you can post some photos of how you had this set up, someone can diagnose what went wrong. The only time you should find any dead bees on top of the sugar pile should be possibly a few dead robber bees. If applied correctly the cluster should always access the sugar pile from underneath eating/tunneling a dome-shaped opening into the bottom if the sugar pile. I know it's not what anyone wants to ever hear, but bees on top of the sugar pile and a small dead cluster can sometimes mean that a weak hive was being robbed out through a top entrance...this is one of a few scenarios that could produce what you're talking about.
> 
> Do you have any photos that were taken when you added the sugar or when you dismantled this hive?



Well, hindsight is always 20/20, so it does not shed any additional light on this "my mistake."
I did the best as I knew how!? (lets not forget that I have been with bees for 53 years.) I am the first to admit, that, I don't know everything about bees, nor do I have all the answers. . .

I laid newspaper on the frames and cut it to size on 3 sides so that the paper was about an inch away from the walls. On a south side, (top entrance side) I cut paper so that there was about 4 inches of space - to allow for ventilation and ample space for bee movement in the event that the weather permits them to take a cleansing flight.
(I must ad that I almost religiously maintain good ventilation -chimney effect like - in all my hives! It is the only way to fly in this - our parts)
I should also ad, for better understanding, that I run mine lately the "warm way! Housell positioned! It makes for real nice and happy bees!"
So, on this paper I dumped a 2 kilo bag of cane-white - fine granulated sugar. There is a big difference between fine and not so fine, even when one dissolves it in a pot of water?!
On this I installed a 3" frame/shim or whatever one wants to call it. This 3" high box or frame is the difference between the full supper and a 2/3 one. I have one of those for all my hives. Some are even half size, so that I can use full frames and 2/3 ones in the same box. helpful when installing nucs which all come in full size. . . 

Again, what I could see, after I opened those dead outs in May, is: The bees got warmed up on the sun... Let's not forget that we had temps in about -35 to -40 range for just about 7 weeks - with some nice sunny day - but miserably cold ones in between. 
(Those sunny days are for us very important - cause without them warming up the bees we would surely loose them all to starvation. They are so cold that they will crawl into empty cells and die - with the next row of cells chuck full of honey! It is perhaps hard to imagine for you people from the warmer places - but bees in our parts have to get warmed up by the sun in order to move over an inch or two, or if they have a few cells of brood, which they often do, they will move the food closer to the nest...
Again, I sound like a broken record? The bees got warmed up and went on the sugar - they did not eat sugar from the top - they just roamed around and even pooped a bit, here and there. When sun got hid behind the trees or clouds - they got caught - pure and simple. They get caught outside also. 
To compensate for such occurrences I personaly run unlimited brood nests - so to get as big a cluster as I possibly can for winter. 
Those dead outs were just as strong as one can hope for. About half a bucket of dead ones on the sugar and the cluster was siting on 7 frames.
I overwinter mine with about 60 kilo of food - minimum! And in April have to watch their weight and give them a frame or two of honey...

I did not see any problem with humidity. Paper was wet ofcourse cause dry sugar draws the humidity into itself. 
Sugar on the underside was eaten and with a hard thin crust from where the bees were licking it. But brake the thin crust and it ran like it did when I opened the package. (Here we get it in 2 kilo packs.)

See, those two hives were also in prior years noted to get warmer than the others. Cause one can see by the yellow snow in front of them and more than normal amount of dead bees on the snow. 
The hives which are not directly exposed to full sun, seem to fare better. They get sort of the filtered sunlight, through the trees, etc. . .
But, as you all know, not all hives can be on best locations - all of the time!? We place them on what we have, although we all wish at times to have a better place for them?

So let me tell you friends: This "old gizzard" has seen a lot, as an ex special force from behind the Iron Curtain... I can also read sign better than most so picture on the hive had told me what transpired. But, seeing them go like that - for no reason at all but my stupid need to try and test something what I knew had to fail in this harsh climate... Well, it did put some "dew" in my eyes - which I hate to admit. . .

Sorry, had some pictures. But after going over them so many times - I deleted them...
I still can't get it out of my head how thick they were on the sugar some places over 2" of dead bees...

Now, all this said, I wish to say that by mentioning this in a previous post I do not condemn it. I am sure that dry sugar, even though being a last resort, perhaps works better, or perfect even, for most who employ this practice in their hives. (I use sugar only as a last resort. My hives are run as natural as possible, no dopes, no artificial feed, no medications - not even smoke!)

In my parts of the world, mother nature is just too cruel to allow for such extravagant luxury. Bees have a hard go just to get to the next cell over - "any walk on the wild side" is just not for this parts, as I found out?!


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## France (Apr 5, 2007)

purvisgs said:


> ok- sounds like most comments are negative about this stuff-
> but- anyone who actually has experience with reflectix- thoughts regarding moisture / condensation build up?
> 
> 
> ...



As I said before: I would not even attempt to try that stuff, cause plastic surfaces invite condensation. Whilst woody, porous, homasote/ceiling tile/recycled newsprint slabs, absorb it and dissipate it through the outside edge!

On the tops of your migratory covers I would lay at least 1" slab of Styrofoam - the water resistant one! The 1 1/2" stuff is better! Put on this a rock, or a hefty brick, to hold it down. 
Gluing it is a bad idea. . .
Trick here is: to prevent the warmth of the hive to come in contact with a surface that is cold/chilled from the outside. (Sides of hives are place where condensation turns to water - but being vertical - it runs down... Thus why they tell us to tip hives slightly forward - to drain out this water. . .


Now, to went those same top covers? (Don't like migratory covers! They are good only if one migrates!)

I would get a router and cut in the front a 3/8" deep and about 2" to 3" wide groove to project past the wall of the box on which it sits. If you have a cleat in the front - one can cut a bigger groove in this cleat, going downwards or: Drill holes through a cleat to the front and chisel it clean...
This will give you all you need in terms of ventilation, upper entrance and dissipation of humidity. . .

A little extra work on already made covers - but well worth the effort and bees will thank you for it. . . 
When makeing new ones - one can cut this on a dado blade with no trouble at all...


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## Jeffzhear (Dec 2, 2006)

France said:


> It is interesting how this subject keeps popping up every Fall..?
> (I use 2" Styrofoam on top of the 1/2" homasote/ceiling tile, all this ofcourse on top of inner cover, with centre hole opened!)


Does the homasote cover the entire top of the inner cover leaving a dead air space just above the inner cover so the air can work it's way out?

Do I worry about the homasote sucking in moisture from the outside edges (Rain/melting snow) since I use migratory lids?

Will the homasote bend or warp after picking up moisture and close off the hole in the center of the inner cover?

Thanks in advance and I hope I am clear enough on my questions.


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## France (Apr 5, 2007)

Jeffzhear said:


> Does the homasote cover the entire top of the inner cover leaving a dead air space just above the inner cover so the air can work it's way out?
> 
> Do I worry about the homasote sucking in moisture from the outside edges (Rain/melting snow) since I use migratory lids?
> 
> ...




Yes, homasote does cover the whole area on top of the inner cover creating a dead air space.
But, the air does not work it's way out from here - only the moisture/humidity does - even if only from bee-breath and burning of their food as fuel - sort off. . .
Air gets out blow the inner cover! Through the notch that is cut in the inner covers' rim.


I, in winter, use a 1/2" cover over the top of my telescopic covers and this topped with two hefty rocks. Could be plywood, chip board, fiberglass roofing panels - anything really.
The idea is to keep rain and snow off of hives - giving bees a little break from the elements. In heat it even provides a nice cool shade. (Much used in Africa, etc.)
With your kind of covers this would be obviously even more beneficial. 
So, as described, homasote is not exposed to rain/snow and I do not worry about picking up water from the outside.


No, it should not bend, (never happened to me yet) It will not block the center hole even if it did sag a bit. I have to remind you here that in that inner cover, on the down side, there must be an entrance/opening, just high enough for one bee - height wise... 
So, even with centre hole being blocked - the hive will still properly ventilate. The homasote and an open centre hole is only an extra insurance that in extreme weather ice will form on a homasote and not on inner cover. Therefore the water will NOT drip on the bees.

You are quite welcome, and yes it is all plenty clear to me...

Regards,
France


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## Jeffzhear (Dec 2, 2006)

France, I just want to thank you for your follow up. I do appreciate it. Each year I am looking for ways to overwinter my hives. I try new things all the time and will try your suggestion. Now I just need to find homasote. Thinking of driving down to lowes now to look on my way to the beekeepers meeting.

Another question: I was down at Lowes tonight looking for homasote and they don't carry it. They told me the ceiling tile doesn't hold up nearly as well as the homasote and that I could buy it down the road at another hardware store. I presume that homasote is different then ceiling tile in your neck of the woods. Which do you prefer, homasote or ceiling tile? Is one more expensive then the other? Thanks again.
Jeff


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## France (Apr 5, 2007)

Jeffzhear said:


> France, I just want to thank you for your follow up. I do appreciate it. Each year I am looking for ways to overwinter my hives. I try new things all the time and will try your suggestion. Now I just need to find homasote. Thinking of driving down to lowes now to look on my way to the beekeepers meeting.
> 
> Another question: I was down at Lowes tonight looking for homasote and they don't carry it. They told me the ceiling tile doesn't hold up nearly as well as the homasote and that I could buy it down the road at another hardware store. I presume that homasote is different then ceiling tile in your neck of the woods. Which do you prefer, homasote or ceiling tile? Is one more expensive then the other? Thanks again.
> Jeff



I know what you mean. I too had ventured to Home Depot and some other lumber yards but - no homasote!? (They are willing to order some if I buy a lot)
I checked the ceiling tile and all are made with some kind of glass wool and gypsum mixture, at least that is the way I see it. Most people at those stores don't seem to even know what I was talking about, though...
I finally settled for a bulletin board/cork board! The same stuff one finds in schools and offices. It is basically homasote backed on one side with about one eight of an inch of cork. It is a bit more expansive but I only needed two. 
But what is cost? They don't cost nearly as much as a nuc in the spring with which to replace the lost colonies if they succumb to wet conditions under the lid?!

Well Jeff, one or the other used to be made of the same stuff - pressed wood-fibres and/or recycled paper and such. Just don't touch the ceiling tiles if they contain gypsum and/or glass wool or other stuff.
The cost will be probably about the same. 
If you can get some that are damaged, they will probably let you have them for free?! Especialy ceiling tiles. When they are chipped they could not give them away, cause they are useless for the purpose for which they were intended! 
They are what? 2' by 4"? You know, the ones they use on "drop ceilings" in stores/offices. . .
When I was running my commercial outfit I once got those "Tin-test" 4' by 8' sheets with which they used to cover the outside walls of new houses! They are usualy coated with tar on one side. They are good if one peels the tar off - to get rid off any "outgassing."

Boy, it sure is getting hard to get the good old stuff anymore. Somebody should tell those Chinese that the old is often better than the new crap that they are pushing under our noses. . .

Regards,
France


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

jeffzhear writes:
Another question: I was down at Lowes tonight looking for homasote and they don't carry it.

tecumseh:
you may need to look a bit futher. here we have 'commercial' construction meterial supply houses (they typically deal in large quantities of sheet rock but also carry suspended ceiling supplies) that carry a lot of the older materials.

here these business are more likely to be located in some business park than along some major highway. their business base is contractors and not home owners.


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## dug_6238 (May 9, 2007)

France said:


> ...The bees got warmed up and went on the sugar - they did not eat sugar from the top - they just roamed around and even pooped a bit, here and there. When sun got hid behind the trees or clouds - they got caught - pure and simple. They get caught outside also...
> ...Those dead outs were just as strong as one can hope for. About half a bucket of dead ones on the sugar and the cluster was siting on 7 frames.
> I overwinter mine with about 60 kilo of food - minimum! And in April have to watch their weight and give them a frame or two of honey...
> 
> ...


France, what you're describing in this last sugar post sounds right. The bees should not access the sugar pile from the top though, but rather from the bottom where it's closest and most accessible by the cluster. *The fecal matter that you found inside the hive is probably not a good sign*. It's good to hear that 1 of the 3 made it.

I used this method of emergency feeding on 4 hives last year. 1 of the 4 didn't make it, but the other 3 did, and I think you can see from this post some of the other things that went wrong that eventually doomed the 'goners.


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## Shukelu Ba-bees (Aug 12, 2021)

purvisgs said:


> A commercial beek in my area -PNW usa- uses reflectix brand (silver-mylar coated bubble wrap) insulation cut to the size of a hive body as an inner cover, year round. he uses migratory tops, from what I recall, doesn't really provide any upper ventilation.
> 
> I am considering using this stuff underneath my flat plywood (and also migratory) tops, but I am concerned about ventilation and condensation build up. It seems like this material would be prone to collecting condensation, and I am not quite sure how to best provide some sort of upper ventilation...
> 
> ...


I'm considering using Reflectix on the OUTSIDE of my bee hive, cutting it to the out dimensions on each of the 4 walls leaving the hive entrance clear of course. Maybe use outside velcro to attach it so it can easily be removed in the Spring. Already have a sheet of the stuff on top of the hive cover held down by a couple of bricks. I don't understand how this could contribute to any ventilation or moisture problem unless you count the wood sides of the hive not being able to breath/dry. Also, do I need insulation in Northern Delaware growing zone 7a?


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## GFWestTexas (Jul 10, 2021)

13 year old thread.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

GFWestTexas said:


> 13 year old thread.


This little "suggested reading" disaster at the bottom of the page of every post really makes for some deep dive bumping of old threads. It's hard to believe they can't somehow filter that to posts actives in the past 12 months.


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## ursa_minor (Feb 13, 2020)

I think part of the problem is that as a new member we are hesitant to start a new thread when one on the subject exists already so when we search for answers we just add on the bottom of an existing thread that has not fully dealt with our question.

Personally I don't want to clutter the forum and be a bother with what might be a silly question so I read threads that exist on the subject searching for an answer. I haven't resurrected one, but I also often won't post my question as a new thread. The comfort level increases as time goes on, but for new members that takes time.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

jwcarlson said:


> This little "suggested reading" disaster at the bottom of the page of every post really makes for some deep dive bumping of old threads. It's hard to believe they can't somehow filter that to posts actives in the past 12 months.


VerticalScope Admin has acknowledged that the length of time that feature uses to dredge up previous posts is resulting in complaints, and they are working on changes to that algorithm. They did not offer a timeline for rolling that out, though. I did volunteer Beesource to be a '_beta test_' site.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

ursa_minor said:


> I think part of the problem is that as a new member we are hesitant to start a new thread when one on the subject exists already so when we search for answers we just add on the bottom of an existing thread that has not fully dealt with our question.
> 
> Personally I don't want to clutter the forum and be a bother with what might be a silly question so I read threads that exist on the subject searching for an answer. I haven't resurrected one, but I also often won't post my question as a new thread. The comfort level increases as time goes on, but for new members that takes time.


The way I've always thought about that is that this is kind of a conversation, albeit in a slightly strange format compared to normal discussions. How many times have you told the same stories to different people? Or helped someone with similar problems... or talked about specific examples in different conversations... all the time, right?

Now, I TOTALLY understand not letting a thread about bee stings and their mental health spiral into a discussion about everyone's pet conspiracy theory. But I've never understood the idea that you shouldn't make a new thread with the question that's already been answered. The forum would be a ghost town if that's all any of us ever did. I'm not saying that everyone should make the same posts. If someone two days ago asked the same or similar question to one you were planning on asking, then yeah... use that thread and maybe ask any clarification you'd like to learn about. But rebooting a decade+ old thread doesn't make sense. I've found myself clicking the recommended reading stuff too. If there was some warning about replying to an old thread or something, maybe it would help curtail it too?
I don't think there would be any issue with posting a new thread, linking to this old one, and asking people for their opinions on the contents or something like that. To me that makes sense.

Disclaimer: I'm not a moderator though, so maybe they'd hate that.


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## ursa_minor (Feb 13, 2020)

jwcarlson said:


> But I've never understood the idea that you shouldn't make a new thread with the question that's already been answered.


I think it depends upon your prior experience. On another forum I belong to they insist that you do a search of the forum if it has been discussed before. Newbies sometimes get chastised. 

It is a matter of learning how each forum operates. 

I also belong to a forum that posts a warning that states the age of the thread and asks if you wish to continue with your post. That would be a helpful reminder to a person who forgets to check the date.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

ursa_minor said:


> I think it depends upon your prior experience. On another forum I belong to they insist that you do a search of the forum if it has been discussed before. Newbies sometimes get chastised.
> 
> It is a matter of learning how each forum operates.
> 
> I also belong to a forum that posts a warning that states the age of the thread and asks if you wish to continue with your post. That would be a helpful reminder to a person who forgets to check the date.


I understand fully where you're coming from, I've been a member of those types of places too. I just think the attitude of people who harp on that are dumb, honestly. Most forums like this would have a few new posts per year if we never rehashed anything. On a really busy forum I could see it being a problem, but it isn't here.


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## jtgoral (Mar 24, 2018)

purvisgs said:


> A commercial beek in my area -PNW usa- uses reflectix brand (silver-mylar coated bubble wrap) insulation cut to the size of a hive body as an inner cover, year round. he uses migratory tops, from what I recall, doesn't really provide any upper ventilation.
> 
> I am considering using this stuff underneath my flat plywood (and also migratory) tops, but I am concerned about ventilation and condensation build up. It seems like this material would be prone to collecting condensation, and I am not quite sure how to best provide some sort of upper ventilation...
> 
> ...


I use reflectix as an inner cover and two pieces of 2" R10 foam instead of telescoping cover with a brick on the top of it. No bearding during hot Chicago summer after I started this.


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## Jim Braun (Nov 8, 2019)

I just ordered a 100' roll for my 14 hives. I'm in mid Missouri in 5b. I lost only 1 last year due to the polar vortex. I'd just use staples then a strip of wood with screws where they overlap. I'll put the reflectix under the outer cover. Be aware that reflectix does solar degrade. I will use 15 pound tar paper to cover the reflectix.


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## Jim Braun (Nov 8, 2019)

I just reread my last post and want to amend what I said, I wasn't able to edit. 

I am using Reflectix on the outside of the box as well as in the inner cover. Also I WAS going to order that 100' roll but they only let you order 2 at a time. As a result I bought a 48" x 25' roll and will buy more from another store when I need it.


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## rdimanin (Jan 17, 2020)

Everyone using homasote for water vapor should read Winter Management | Bee Culture I've been using his condensing hive method since 2016 & it works well. As the article states, homasote is made with an insecicide & doesn't add to insulation value when damp. FWIW, Bill Hesbach is a great beek and is much more experienced than I am.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

rdimanin said:


> Everyone using homasote for water vapor should read Winter Management | Bee Culture I've been using his condensing hive method since 2016 & it works well. As the article states, homasote is made with an insecicide & doesn't add to insulation value when damp. FWIW, Bill Hesbach is a great beek and is much more experienced than I am.


A good read; and pay attention to his mention of any significant hazard to the bees. There are numerous beekeepers using homasote or other tradename fiberboard sheets in direct contact with their bees. This is the first suggestion I have seen that it may be harmful. It is seen as being a wicking element that will discharge excess moisture from its exposed edges to the outside air. 

If it is a real world hazard to wintering bees it should be examined and exposed: If it is merely a personal scaremongering opinion it should be seen as such.


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