# Kerf + popsicle sticks / tongue depressors



## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Leo Sharashkin says:


> IMPORTANT: top bars with a V-shape profile under the top bar are not reliable and may result in cross-combing.


Otherwise, I think this entire comb-guide thing is over-complicated.
I pickup any old stick from the orchard or wood trash pile (try for about a pencil thickness if possible).
Staple it to the bar - done.
This is what I am doing and it works for me.


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## Yunzow (Mar 16, 2017)

Thanks for the idea Greg! I'm having a hard time interpreting the first picture. The second, it seems like it doesn't matter what length of stick?? Also, what size staples do you use? Would 1/2" be long enough for the staples?



GregV said:


> Leo Sharashkin says:
> 
> 
> Otherwise, I think this entire comb-guide thing is over-complicated.
> ...


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## Corto (May 29, 2017)

I have the V shape from Beethinking and have not had anything but straight combs.


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## Yunzow (Mar 16, 2017)

Well, that's interesting. But sadly I have not had the same luck.....



Corto said:


> I have the V shape from Beethinking and have not had anything but straight combs.


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## Yunzow (Mar 16, 2017)

Actually, come to think of it, what is the width of the bars from beethinking?



Corto said:


> I have the V shape from Beethinking and have not had anything but straight combs.


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## Corto (May 29, 2017)

Yunzow said:


> Actually, come to think of it, what is the width of the bars from beethinking?


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## Yunzow (Mar 16, 2017)

Same thing could I ask you what the width of your top bars is?



GregV said:


> Leo Sharashkin says:
> 
> 
> Otherwise, I think this entire comb-guide thing is over-complicated.
> ...


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## Schuman (Apr 20, 2018)

Only my second year and just 1 hive but I have been using 14" paint sticks cut in half lengthwise in the top groove and they seem to work well. My kerf was just 1 blade wide in my homemade frames but the ones I bought from Dadant are much wider and are not as tight of a fit. Are your hives level side to side? I think that has more to do with bad comb than the guide itself.


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

I tried the large tongue depressors for my foundationless Lang and the were too skinny to hold up to the staple I ran through them. The ones I did not staple in, fell out, so I won't use those again.

For the topbar, I'd run the kerf the entire length and then use the wider paint sticks or yard stick for the comb guide. That's the width you are looking for. Not too wide or too long. These are the ones I get from Beeline Apiary for about a buck.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Yunzow said:


> Same thing could I ask you what the width of your top bars is?


I started with 1.5 inch (again per Leo Sharashkin) and quickly realized - wrong.
1.5 inch feels too wide, for sure for the nest.
Bees have tried double-comb on numerous occasions on 1.5 inch bars.

I am now doing 1.25 inch.
Gradually shaving down all my existing 1.5 bars - a self-made hassle.


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## Yunzow (Mar 16, 2017)

Okay, maybe I'll stick with the 1.25....



GregV said:


> I started with 1.5 inch (again per Leo Sharashkin) and quickly realized - wrong.
> 1.5 inch feels too wide, for sure for the nest.
> Bees have tried double-comb on numerous occasions on 1.5 inch bars.
> 
> ...


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## Yunzow (Mar 16, 2017)

Also, what do you think about using a round wood dowel for the guide, pencil thick or less? Easier for me to acquire.



GregV said:


> Leo Sharashkin says:
> 
> 
> Otherwise, I think this entire comb-guide thing is over-complicated.
> ...


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## Yunzow (Mar 16, 2017)

Eureka! disposable Wooden chopsticks....


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Yunzow said:


> Eureka! disposable Wooden chopsticks....


Tada! 
Sure. I'd use them.
Whatever material lays around and is free, I use it.
1.2 inch staples are fine to attach most anything.
I got a bunch of apple scion wood leftover after grafting - I will let them dry and use them.
TB beekeeping is supposed to be stupid simple and dirt cheap.


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## mcr (May 5, 2018)

I started with paint stir sticks from paint store. I cut a kerf with my saw by trying to center then made a pass in both directions and then it was on true center.The groove did go to the ends but my bees just seal it up.






Used the stick as is but found my bees just attached to the bottom and not the top bar. Have made them 3/8 to 1/2 inch wide ( hang down from top bar. Also got basswood strips. Don't think it matters the wood. bees have been building straight combs so far.


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## AvatarDad (Mar 31, 2016)

If you guys have a table saw, it is easy to rip strips from a 2x4. these shims also come in handy later on, closing up the honey section (a shim is a great way of mildly tweaking comb spacing in the TBH).

See Ruth's post below. I also have been trying these and am thrilled with them so far. The strips are 3/16" thick, and extend 3/8" down. They feel solid, and the bees completely envelope the starter strip and attach to the main bar... it feels very secure. I think the thickness and depth are both perfect.

If you have no table saw, I think there is some pre-fab molding at the lumber store which might work.

Thanks


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## Yunzow (Mar 16, 2017)

Hey what Ruth post are you talking about?


AvatarDad said:


> If you guys have a table saw, it is easy to rip strips from a 2x4. these shims also come in handy later on, closing up the honey section (a shim is a great way of mildly tweaking comb spacing in the TBH).
> 
> See Ruth's post below. I also have been trying these and am thrilled with them so far. The strips are 3/16" thick, and extend 3/8" down. They feel solid, and the bees completely envelope the starter strip and attach to the main bar... it feels very secure. I think the thickness and depth are both perfect.
> 
> ...


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## AvatarDad (Mar 31, 2016)

In post #10 in this thread she shows a picture of the Beeline Apiary bars. I bought some, and also made some homemade versions of these. They work very well.

They don't list individual bars in the catalog, but will sell them if you ask. 

Mike


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Jumbo craft sticks works fine, of course, but I've had the best luck with a V on the bottom of the bar. I have my top bar hive, A Gold Star Honeybee hive and a Bee Built top bar hive. I've had great luck with all of them and they all have a V top bar. I've had bees in mine since 2006, the Gold Star since 2011, and the Bee Built since earlier this year.


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## Captgreg (May 2, 2016)

I use a thin board I cut with table saw about a saw blade width and with top bar I make two cuts in center of it and when done dip in hot wax this gives your bees a starter strip that they seem to build on a lot sooner.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

I'm not tb, but when making foundationless frames for my langs, I rip thin strips from a piece of 1 x and glue them into the groove. True you will need to cut your own groove, but that is super easy to do a whole bunch all at one time. With a little adjusting of the fence, you can cut the strips to get a tight fit in the groove left by the sawblade kerf. After they have been glued in, I paint them with wax. Here is a picture of the foundationless mating nuc frames I did yesterday with the starter strip installed.


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## mcr (May 5, 2018)

I've used paint stir sticks, strips of wood and plastic foundation cut down. I've glued them in and used brads to hold them. My bees perfer ones that are approx 1/4 inch out from the top bar. When approx 3/4 inch they just attached at the edge. I rubbed wax on all of mine. 
When making a kerf I measure very careful to the center. Make a cut then reverse it and make another pass. This puts the kerf in the center. I have messed up serveral getting it right.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

mcr said:


> I've used paint stir sticks, strips of wood and plastic foundation cut down. I've glued them in and used brads to hold them. My bees perfer ones that are approx 1/4 inch out from the top bar. When approx 3/4 inch they just attached at the edge. I rubbed wax on all of mine.
> When making a kerf I measure very careful to the center. Make a cut then reverse it and make another pass. This puts the kerf in the center. I have messed up serveral getting it right.


Yes! I have not done a lot of foundationless except for drone comb but my observation is that the bees attach more solidly to the whole top bar width, (rather than only to the starter) if you make the starter small. Also waxing the whole of the top bar is perhaps not the best move. When bees attach to wood they seem to deposit a primer of propolis wax mixture to bond the comb. A better bond than the melted wax you slather on.


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