# Raise their own queens this year



## scsasdsa (Jan 23, 2004)

I plan to raise my own Queens for fall requeening. my plan is to use the hives swarm impulse and make splits into 5 frame nucs and let them raise the queens and then combine in fall I hope to raise 4 good queens in this manner.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I will be raising queens again this year. I have detailed my current method several times. But basiclly I have a Jenter system and I do it all in one hive. I was pretty pleased with the results last year.


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## James Burke (Feb 4, 2002)

Seventh year of beekeeping and fourth year of rearing queens this year. I use grafting. Although it takes a bit to master, the results are more predictable and I definitely know within 24 hours if cells have been accepted. 

I've tried the Jenter style method to no avail...however some have claimed that it works.

Regards,

Jim

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http://www.emeraldridgeapiary.net


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## Rob Mountain (Dec 8, 2003)

Having raised queens commercially, we only used grafting. I have yet to try a Jenter or any copies of them. I successfully taught my three children to graft and relied heavily on my 2 sons, 13 and 11, over weekends. One thing that I have recommended at queen rearing workshops is that if ones eyesight or steady hands are not quite what they should be then get someone else to do the grafting for you. A lady Beekeeper in KY was getting herself into all kinds of knots over grafting, and this year has asked a friend of hers who is an artist to do her grafting. Actually the picture on the Kelley Co. catalog was painted by this person. 

Another thing that I recommend is of course lots of practice, and this is best done when you are not under pressure to get it right. It is amazing how many times you can graft the same lava in and out of the same cell. 


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If a job is worth doing - Then do it well


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Rob -

Would you suggest starting out on drone cells for practice?

- Barry


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## Rob Mountain (Dec 8, 2003)

Barry

Drone cells are a great idea. 

One important thing for beginners to get right at first is the correct larva size, actually not only beginners but all of us. A good way to get the correct size- age larva is to place an empty frame of drawn comb into the middle of the brood nest for the queen to lay on for 4 day before you want to graft. This frame will then have correct size and smaller. Be careful not to graft eggs.

Rob


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If a job is worth doing - Then do it well


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## rainesridgefarm (Sep 4, 2001)

I also graft. I raise a few queens every year to keep good stains going. I love to do it but always have more queens then splits I can make.


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## danno1800 (Mar 13, 2004)

I plan to graft some and split to get a few more.


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## fat/beeman (Aug 23, 2002)

yes I do graft my queens and am old time keeper with no frills and fancy plastic queen rearing do hicky's
at 62 can still get good results with old style needle I also hand pick my frames for grafting and do cross breeding for mite control don't have much use for all the plastic boxes for queen breeding. 
there's no easy way to do queen work and no magic bullet. just lot of hard work.
Don


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## crownhoney (Oct 26, 2002)

I plan to raise myself some queens this year for the first time. I will be using the Dadant EZ queen rearing kit out of New Zealand.


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## Curry (Sep 22, 2003)

I will be doing about 40 walk-away splits here next week (been waiting on drones). I want to keep plenty of genetic diversity, hence the walk-away splits. Later, I'll be using my Jenter kit to raise some additional queens and hope to make another 50 splits or so. Not interested in making much honey this year... just more bees.


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## izybo (Feb 7, 2003)

what happens if your graft an egg and not a larva?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

First, it won't stick in the cup. But if you primed the cup with some royal jelly so it stuck, then I have no idea what would happen, but it's not how it's done.









When people talk about only transfering larvae that are too small to see, they don't mean just that its too small (you can see an egg and it's smaller). But when it first hatches and is fed it is transparent and in a pool of transparent liquid. You can easily think there isn't a larvae there, but they wouldn't be feeding it if there wasn't. That's the right age.


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## Hillbillynursery (Nov 13, 2003)

So far I have been using queen cells started under supersedure. My queen finally disapeared. So I left them one frame with a queen cell on it. If I need more this year I will do either of 2 things. One is walk away splits and the other Haynes method where you lay the frame on its side with many cells torn down so that you can seperate the queen cells. I have plans on buying queens of a couple different races this fall so I can truely see which bee does best for me.


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## greenbeekeeping (Feb 13, 2003)

I am hoping to try some grafting for the first time this year.


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## Rob Mountain (Dec 8, 2003)

"greenbeekeeping"

If there is anything that I can do to help please contact me.


Rob

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If a job is worth doing - Then do it well


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## db_land (Aug 29, 2003)

I plan on trying the Jenter system this year. I would really like to start a queen-bee coop here in NC, but havn't found anyone interested yet. Basically the idea is that local beekeepers would donate their best producing, most mite resistant, survivor beehives to be put in an isolated beeyard as breeding stock, cell finishers. Resulting queens would then be distributed back to the beekeepers. This would efectively distribute the best genetics throughout the state. I think after a few cycles and years of doing this we would have queens and bees ideally suited to the NC environment and able to survive without treatment. Has anyone done this elsewhere?


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## James Burke (Feb 4, 2002)

QUEEN BEE CO-OP
YES!!!! We are in the second year of establishing our own co-op among some of our dedicated beekeepers. Presently our membership is only between three beekeepers, but we do have a demand for localized stock.
I have traded queens with another beekeeper here on the forum and got a wonderful queen that has done well. One of our main goals is to propegate as much "feral" stock as possible (bees living "unassisted" by beekeepers in trees, barns, etc...).
Our first criteria is that queen mothers MUST have overwintered atleast one winter before other traits are considered.
Our "co-op" mission goes beyond just rearing queens. It is a stewardship program dedicated to working with naturally mated, unmedicated bees.

I don't have our stewardship web page finished yet, but click on the link below and follow the link for "MAS" (Michigan Apicultural Stewardship).

Very best regards,

Jim




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http://www.emeraldridgeapiary.net


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## danno1800 (Mar 13, 2004)

>izybo asked: what happens if your graft an >egg and not a larva?
Dr. Roger Morse from Cornell wrote a book about queen rearing. He said some researchers did just that to see what the outcome would be. He said their research showed that, as long as the egg stuck, there was no diffenrence in the outcome, only it took a few days longer because they used eggs, not larva. Hope that answers your quesiton!


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## BWrangler (Aug 14, 2002)

Hi Rob and Everyone,

I will raise a few this year. Raising a few great queens is so easy, it's almost effortless. 

The beekeeper who needs just a few is at a great advantage compared to a queen producer rearing tens of thousands. He can pick the time of year when queen rearing/mating is at its best. Mated queens can easily be introduced to other hives without the stress caused by caging, holding,shipping and introducing very young queens.

The queen rearing books and the methods in them are geared for commercial queen producers. They are overly complex as producing lots of queens through an extended timeframe creates lots of problems.

Almost any hive if properly feed and motivated can raise a half dozen truely great queens while they might not even produce one acceptable round for a commercial queen producer.

Regards
topbarguy


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## Curry (Sep 22, 2003)

Well, I began my first batch of queen rearing today. I tried to find the queen in a booming hive yesterday, but failed. Today however, I was lucky and found her on the second frame I tried. Capturing her proved to be very difficult though. I never use smoke, so I leave the gloves on... which means that I catch her with my plastic queen catcher. In the past I've had no problems just opening the catcher and sort of putting a dome over her until she walks up into the catcher, then I slowly close. This queen kept running out the second I lifted up. Next time I'm going to brush her into the catcher... I hope I didn't hurt her with my several attempts and then getting rough with her.

Anyway, I put her in my Jenter-equivalent kit and I've got another booming hive that I'll use as a queenright cell builder. Happy queen rearing!


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## Rob Mountain (Dec 8, 2003)

Curry

One question. Why no smoke?

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If a job is worth doing - Then do it well


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## Rob Mountain (Dec 8, 2003)

Topbarguy

I agree with you. Most Queen rearing books are for larger production of queens. What I recommend to most smaller beekeepers is the Miller method. No hassle with grafting.


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If a job is worth doing - Then do it well


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>If a job is worth doing - Then do it well

"If something is worth doing it's worth doing slowly" Gypsy Rose Lee

"If something is worth doing it's worth getting someone else to do it" Ambrose Bierce


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## Curry (Sep 22, 2003)

"If something is worth doing it's worth making a little money off it too" -Stephan Curry

The reason I don't use smoke is that: it's a pain messing with the smoker (I make many trips to various hives), I don't like the smell of smoke in me or on me, and I don't think bees like the smell either... it temporarily disturbs the pheremone smell of the hive. When I leave, they are right back to normal, but a smoked hive takes a while to realize everythings OK. I wear a full bee suit (thin ripstop nylon) and gloves so no need. I think smoking is a custom that has been antiquated by modern bee suits, but I can certainly understand doing it if you chose to not wear a full bee suit.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I still think that a hive in alarm is more disturbed than one that's only been lightly smoked.


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## Guest (Apr 10, 2004)

The whole purpose of smoke is to mask to alarm
pheromone, so that "the alarm" raised by any
one bee is not detected by the others.

It follows that smoking a hive is less disturbance
to the hive than not smoking one.

I'd much rather smoke a hive than wear a bee suit,
and this philosophy has allowed me to keep bees
for over a decade, each year putting off buying
a suit for myself until "next year". (Of course 
I have a veil, I'm not that stupid, and of course
those who I hire are fitted with enough gear to
survive a direct hit by a colony of AHB that might
have come to Virginia in yet another boxcar from
the southwest. (It happened once, it might happen
again.)

Unless you have the steady slow hands of a brain
surgeon, you are going to inflict collateral 
damage on a hive each time you open it up. You
have to assume that at least one bee is going to
be in the wrong place at the wrong time, and get
crushed or at least pushed/squeezed hard. This bee 
will certainly release alarm pheromone. Preventing
this bee from alarming others is exactly why one 
smokes a hive.

Early in the day and late in the day smoke becomes
more important to sting avoidance, as a higher
percentage of flight-ready foragers can be assumed
to be in the hive.

Some people say that opening a hive disrupts normal
activity for a full day, some say for a half day.
I don't know which estimate is more accurate, but I 
don't ever open a hive without "good cause", and a 
specific purpose in mind.

Watching entrance activity and looking at the debris
on a trash board can tell one much more about the
colony than rummaging about through the frames without
any specific agenda in mind, anyway.


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## Rob Mountain (Dec 8, 2003)

Believe me, our company Mountain Bee Products designed, manufactured, and exported very many well made Beekeepers Suits, and none of them were ever intended to replace the use of smoke for masking the alarm pheromone in either African or European honey bees.

I dont use a smoker necessarily for my own good but for the sake of the bees. Have you ever seen how bees will turn on their own queen when too much alarm pheromone is present?  Nasty!!!! Dont try operating a queen- bank without using smoke. Dont try changing a frame in a breeder colony every day for 4 months without smoke. Try shaking packages without one.

I strongly feel the correct use for smoke for calming bees should be encouraged by members of this forum. This should be a point to discuss on the Bee Forum page.

Jim and Mike, thanks for your input and support. This is very important for people working bees in urban areas. Alarmed bees are an extreme danger to everyone around, including animals.

Wearing a bullet proof vest doesnt ensure you wont be shot, you need to neutralize the enemy first. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.


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If a job is worth doing - Then do it well


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## Rob Mountain (Dec 8, 2003)

Thanks to everyone who shared about raising their own queens this year. I really wish you all the best with your endeavors, and would like to offer whatever help that I can give beyond this forum. 

Requeening your own hives with queens that you have raised on your own is very rewarding, and I strongly believe that this will be the way of the future. It really doesnt take Rocket Science to raise queens, it takes getting started, and sticking at it. 

Start small by raising cells to use in splits. Not even grafting but using the Miller method. If you have too many cells, choose the biggest and healthiest looking ones. If still too many, sell them or swap them with other beekeeper for equipment  Bata 


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If a job is worth doing - Then do it well


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I will say that many people use TOO MUCH smoke. It only takes a puff or two on a nice sunny day with a nice gentle hive to keep them calm. The only time I use a lot is if I know I'm going to do something majorly disruptive like cutting out a feral hive or dealing with a known vicious hive. Too much smoke is a lot of the reason some people can't find a queen because they ran her off.


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## Oxankle (Jan 8, 2004)

As many of us are hobby beekeepers not pushed for time, there is no reason to upset a hive. A few puffs of smoke under the top and a few in the entrance, plus 5 minutes for it to take effect will have the bees in a cooperative mood. 

Even vicious hives can be worked in this method on good days. On bad days hobby beekeepers should build equipment or learn to live with a few stings.
Ox


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## James Burke (Feb 4, 2002)

I see we have a hot topic on the use of smoke. I very rarely use smoke on my nucs or my cell builders / finishers. If I have to use smoke at all, I do so after opening the hive, if possible.

I try to gage the gentleness of a (full size) colony without using smoke when I am choosing a queen mother. If the bees are too HOT, I don't breed from them...I believe that was one of Brother Adam mottos.

So, I guess the final word from me is that if you must use smoke...do so sparingly. You can always use more if needed.

Regards,

Jim

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http://www.emeraldridgeapiary.net


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I often check on nucs and small hives without any smoke at all, but they are usually very docile anyway and seldom raise an alarm.


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## Curry (Sep 22, 2003)

I have only had a few instances where a hive goes into serious alarm, without using smoke. I open the lid and move frames slowly and gently. Maybe it's because I DON'T use smoke that the bees aren't perturbed at seeing me.

If I go into a resturant or convenience store that smells like smoke at all, I turn right around and walk out. Cause all it takes is about 20 seconds of standing in smoke and it's permeated your clothes, skin, and hair, until you shower. Now we've all seen closeups of bees- they're hairy all over, and their sense of smell is much better than ours. They (and the hive) must stink like smoke for days. Wonder why more hives don't supercedure after a good smoking... since all they smell is smoke.

Now, I hate to even bring this up as an argument against using smoke- but to be completely chemical-free means just that. Proper burning emits CO2 and H2O, but smoke is improper burning... and it emits hydrocarbon chains which stick to whatever they come in contact with. I know that small amounts of smoke would be negligible, but it's something to think about.

I know it's not traditional beekeeping (not having a smoker)- but it's not necessarily "wrong" to do it one way or another... it's just what works for you. I keep bees in the city, and have for years, and I have four young kids. Of course, I work bees when no one is around (as I would even with a smoker), and I've never had a problem. But in the city I certainly limit my hive visits to an absolute minimum.


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## Rob Mountain (Dec 8, 2003)

Hey Guys

Dont you think that we should carry this thread on, on the Bee Forum for the benefit of all?

I really wanted this to be for those of us who are going to raise our own queens this year. 

Thanks, Rob


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If a job is worth doing - Then do it well


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## bamabee (Dec 22, 2003)

MB,
I would really like a detailed outline of how you rase queens in on hive with your metod. I have a swarm of feral bees that especialy 4.9 size bees and want to try raising a few queens. Please email me or whatnot. Thanks


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## Rob Mountain (Dec 8, 2003)

Mike 

That would be great on the forum when you get a chance.

Thanks, Rob


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If a job is worth doing - Then do it well


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I am not an expert at queen rearing by any means. I never really tried it other than splits etc. until last year. Here is an link that includes my struggles to come up with a workable method:
http://www.beesource.com/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000076-2.html 

I have posted the method a few times but here is a link with that method in it:
http://www.beesource.com/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000098.html 

This method is done all in one hive as the queen mother, the cell starter and the cell finisher. It worked well for me when I used it. I will try it again when I see enough drones around.

You could do this without the FWOF (Floor without a floor) but it's more convenient and less disruptive to the hive.

I am considering building a three box long horizontal hive with solid and excluder dividers instead of the Floor Without a Floor. Just to make less lifting.


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## Rob Mountain (Dec 8, 2003)

Thanks MB

Rob

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If a job is worth doing - Then do it well


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## Guest (Apr 19, 2004)

I have only been a beekeeper for 3 years and read A LOT. Needless to say, experience is a lot different than the books, and I need to be a little more flexible in dealing with my bees. I am learning there is no one answer. In the last 2 years I have had 2 hives that had laying workers. So I am a little leery about raising my own queens. I put in new frames of fresh larvae and a few weeks later had lots of drones. No queen. Another time, the bees lost their queen, and by the time I noticed, drones...If I make a split, how can I keep this from happening again? I love the idea of raising my own queen as conditions are a little harsh; windy, etc...and they would be adapted to this area. I only have 2 hives and don't mind extra work as it is obviously a hobby for me and honey for my cooking. Thanks for any help.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>In the last 2 years I have had 2 hives that had laying workers. So I am a little leery about raising my own queens. I put in new frames of fresh larvae and a few weeks later had lots of drones. No queen. Another time, the bees lost their queen, and by the time I noticed, drones...If I make a split, how can I keep this from happening again?

There are no guarantees of course. But you need to do it when there are lots of drones around so the queen can get mated correctly. An unmated queen will also lay all drones. You do need other drones around besides yours, or at least have two different breeder's queens so you have some genetic diversity (even if it's in the same race). The BEST queens are raised by a strong hive, so one way to make the split is take the current queen, an empty drawn comb, two frames of capped brood and two frames of honey and start a nuc with those so that the STRONG hive raised the new queen. She will be better fed etc. than if you leave the queen in the strong hive and leave the nuc to raise a queen.

I admit, part of MY problem in doing this is that if you don't check on them you can't know how they are doing. But checking on them is the leading cause of damaging the queen cells which are often attached to the frame below or the frame next to it. I don't know the best solution to that. If you want to do a lot of queens and you want to get to check on them more easily try the Hopkins method. The cells will all be on the horizontal frame at the top so they are easy to find and you can divvy out the cells when they are ready to emerge and just make the nucs queenless the day before you give them the cell.
http://www.beesource.com/pov/hayes/abjmay91.htm


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## nursebee (Sep 29, 2003)

Great to see this forum! Just noticed it. 

I tried making queen cells using hardwood dipped in wax, then confining the queen. Fair amount of work and not successful.

I made splits this year when a good hive was raising cells. One has taken off so far!

Sunday I am getting a queen kit from the guy I work with, look forward to giving it a try. He would take payment in queen cells.

I think raising your own queens is important for many reason. The thrill of it. Saving the money. Not relying on York Bee Company (they put me on there WAMB list today- where are my bees?). Making a little extra money. Learning about bees.


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## izybo (Feb 7, 2003)

has anybody tried this method of raising queens in a queen right colony? They use the same hive as both the started and finisher.
www.csl.gov.uk/science/organ/environ/bee/ inspection/RearingQueenHoneybees.pdf


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## izybo (Feb 7, 2003)

sorry it didn't highlight the entire address. You need to use the entire address including the pdf extension to view the site.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I haven't tried it but use something similar. The main difference seems to be the queenright cell starter. I had too much trouble getting them to start them and did a queenless starter that was on top of the queenright colonly and make it queenright as soon as the cells were started.

Discussions of similar methods that temporarily make the cell starter queenless and then reunite it:
http://www.ohioqueenbreeders.com/queen_rearing.htm 
http://www.apis.demon.co.uk/beekeeping/newsletters/Spring-1998.html#Queen-rearing


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## Hook (Jun 2, 2002)

First, I'm a little slow around here. The topic of smoke:

I use the least amount of smoke as I can. The cell builder depending on size, I will smoke, and get the bees to dive in the box, after that, I only use it when they start getting too upset! I like to see how far I can go without causing too much of a disturbance, and I usually only where a short sleeve shirt. If I get stung, shame on me, thats the way I feel. As for nucs, I have a lit smoker, but won't use it, unless you get an older one, that gets angry. It happens, but with so little bees, I don't really need it. But as I said, it is there if I need it.

Queenright colony: I have never tried it, and probably won't. I like to think, if the bees are desperate for a quuen bad enough, they will accept more grafts.

Grafting vs. queen box. I have been grafting for a few years, and I figure, if you can barely see the larvae, they are what I transfer. I do have excellent eyesight, and it is not a problem for me. But, I just purchased a queenbox this winter to try. Actually, I got alot of other equipment that I have been using with it, so it made it worth my while. I figure even if I don't use it, I will use the other stuff, and then it only really cost me 10 dollars, and thats not bad.

Personally, I have been getting alot better at grafting, and I enjoy raising queens!



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Dale Richards
Dal-Col Apiaries
Drums, PA


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## crownhoney (Oct 26, 2002)

Hey everybody, I was looking for a post I could brag in.
I have started raising my own queens this year. I am using the DADANT EZ QUEEN REARING kit. This is a kit that's made in New Zealand and sold by Dadant. This thing is great once you get the comb part drawn out. It's very simple to use. And you know exactly how old your larvae are. I have been raising with larvae that are only hours old instead of a day or two. As you know the younger the larvae the better the queen. My 1st batch I put 17 larvae and got 100%. Now Ihave a batch of about 55 in the cell builders. I'll have to get back with you to tell you the results on them.

Anyway this is the method I use, with great results so far. 

JT


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## crownhoney (Oct 26, 2002)

A little more info:

All of mine so far have been raised above a queen excluder in a queen right colony. No swarm box or anything. A lot less stuff to keep up with and if you want you can put in and come back 12 days later and take them out.


JT


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## Rob Mountain (Dec 8, 2003)

JT

Well done. Please keep us posted.

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If a job is worth doing - Then do it well


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## Curry (Sep 22, 2003)

I used my Jenter-equivalent queen rearing kit to make me some queens last week. I have had bad luck in the past with 3 1/2 day old larva, and have had much better luck with 4 day old, so I went 4 days. I pulled the queen out of a hive (and put her in a box beside the hive) and put 20 cups in the hive. I also put another 20 in a queenright hive (couldn't find her)- so I put them above a queen excluder between brood. Today is day 8 so I checked on them both and got 14 very good (long) queen cells in the queenless hive, and got none in the queenright hive. This was my first queenright attempt... not sure if I did something wrong? I'm happy with the 14 however!


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## Rob Mountain (Dec 8, 2003)

Well done with the Jenter

Sorry about the queenright. Give some more details on the queenright and we will see if we can find out what went wrong.

Rob


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If a job is worth doing - Then do it well


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## crownhoney (Oct 26, 2002)

CURRY,
What step's do you do before you put the cups in?


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## Curry (Sep 22, 2003)

I attached my Mann Lake queen rearing cell grid to the top of a frame, and put it into a hive so they would build out comb all around the cell grid. Then it's ready to use. I insert a good queen, and it usually takes a full day before she lays eggs in the cells (I don't know if she's nervous, or it takes time for the workers to prepare the cups, or lose the smell...). Once she lays, I just take the cover off the grid (to release the queen) and leave it there til day four. Like I said above, the larva have to be getting a little more plump than an egg, or they don't seem to take. So, on day four I removed a frame with the queen from a strong hive (and put her in a box next to the hive), and put those cups in. I've done the Ohioqueenbreeders method, but just removing the queen is easier.

I tried to do the same thing on another hive, but couldn't find the queen, so I put a frame of brood on each side of the frame with cups up in the super, and put on a queen excluder. It would be easier if this method works, not having to find the queen, but just removing the queen is very easy, so I'll probably stick with that.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Well, this batch of queens is mated and laying. There were 31 cells capped and there are 20 of them now that I've caught and marked and they are laying.

I build a bunch of 2 frame medium nucs. I really liked them for mating nucs. Big enough to be useful and small enough that it doesn't take so many bees to fill them and I only have to search two medium frames to find the queen. I can put the frames of brood back in the other hives when I sell them or unite the two frame nuc with a hive (after I dequeen) to requeen.


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## bjerm2 (Jun 9, 2004)

I do my own queen raising. I use the queen rearing kit that better bee sells. www.betterbee.com I have had no problems using this method. Do about 20-40 quuens a year. I split my hives, then take the splits place them on top of the original hive using the inner cover as a division board with the center hole screened on both sides. The grove on the inner cover I make a little bigger say 1 inch. I take a few brood comb place them into the upper hive (nuc) with the bees I have shaken in from the original making sure the old queen isn't there. I also insiminate the queens but you can just let the bees have the ripe queen cell and she will mate ok. Good luck. I also us the nucs for wintering in this possition then in spring I have an option to increase or combine. I have had no problems doing it this way. If you have any questions or need more info just ask. HAVE FUN!
Dan


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## Rogerio (Mar 10, 2004)

Rob, where can I find info on the Miller method?

Thanks,
Roger


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## bjerm2 (Jun 9, 2004)

Hi, read your note about the miller method. Here are a few sites you can look up.
http://www.beesource.com/pov/hayes/abjmay91.htm 
http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman/method1.html 
http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman/cellstarting.html 

Dan

[This message has been edited by bjerm2 (edited June 24, 2004).]


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

http://www.gobeekeeping.com/LL%20lesson_ten.htm 

Search for "The Miller Method. It's about 3/4 of the way down the page (and it's a long page)


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

http://www.beesource.com/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000016.html 

And here's a discussion on Queen rearing that includes a discussion of the Miller Method.


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## bjerm2 (Jun 9, 2004)

Curry
Got a question, in fact anyone out there that uses plastic cell cups. I usually throw away the ones that I do not use. They give you a grid of 110 and I usually only use about 60 of them. The ones I throw out have eggs or small larva in them. Does anyone out there use the other 50 of them next time around? Wonder if I have been doing it wrong all these years. Thanks guys.
Dan


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Got a question, in fact anyone out there that uses plastic cell cups. I usually throw away the ones that I do not use.

Why?

>They give you a grid of 110 and I usually only use about 60 of them. The ones I throw out have eggs or small larva in them.

I guess I can see that. I put them in a hardware cloth basket (that I made) and swish them quickly in boiling water several times. Then I dip them in melted beeswax and drain them.


[This message has been edited by Michael Bush (edited June 28, 2004).]


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## bjerm2 (Jun 9, 2004)

Thanks MB. Guess I was doing it wrong.
Dan


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I don't know that it's wrong. Mann Lake says that reusing cups (I assume that's not the plug) reduces acceptance. But I treat them the same way. Swish in boiling water and dip in wax. I use new clean wax. Don't boil them too long or leave them in the wax too long or they deform. Just swish them around a few times and let them cool enough between swishing that they don't melt.

After I wax them, I take a toothpick or something and rub most of the wax out of the "bottom" of the plug (where the larva would be).

I guess I could never throw things away that seem usable.

I have not noticed any loss of acceptance from reusing in this manner.


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## bjerm2 (Jun 9, 2004)

Well I will give it a try. With all this COLD weather here in the North East ( nights 40-50 and days lucky if its a little over 70) it's getting a little difficult to raise some queens. This last weekend I set up a hive with 30 cells, last night I took a look and found that only 5 were accepted. Boy talk about being upset. I'll have to try again this weekend. My tomatoes look the same (except having one flower on the vine) as they did back in mid May when I planted them. Short! I also see that the honey flow is not doing all that great here in my neck of the woods. Anyone have the same experience?
Dan


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## Oxankle (Jan 8, 2004)

Bjerm:

Same here in Ok. It is officially the coolest June in 56 years, and by my account the wettest since I came here in l967. 

Tomatos growing slowly, putting on fruit but not really making time. More grass on this place than at any time since I bought it. Bees worked on the main flow, stopped dead for about two weeks and darned if they are not back at work!!!! 

I moved bees to a watermelon patch yesterday with alfalfa on the margins and white sweetclover still blooming farther back. Soybeans next door will be blooming when the clover and alfalfa fail---Melon pollen plus honey--how can that be beaten?
Ox


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## bjerm2 (Jun 9, 2004)

You got it made, Oxankle, I guess. I sure hope we get some warm weather. It's the end of June up here and yesterday I had the wood stove going to warm up the house! I can just imagine what the poor bees are doing. Cold so they have to eat the days honey to keep warm then it rains so no honey coming in. Bummer!
Dan


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## Curry (Sep 22, 2003)

As far as reusing cell cups... I just put the used cups wrapped in "tool" (like cheese cloth, but with larger holes) in the dishwasher. I don't dip them in wax, but that is probably a good idea... but I haven't had noticeable problems with acceptance. Sorry 'bout the poor honeyflow... that was me last year. This year has been pretty good here.


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## bjerm2 (Jun 9, 2004)

Thanks Michael Bush, and Curry for the info on the queen cups. I'll give this a try.
Dan


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