# Killing slugs without harming bees (Diatomaceous Earth (DE)?)



## tenqueens (Jun 2, 2009)

Hi All.

I'm new here. Please pardon me if I'm asking in the wrong forum. I did scan the choices, and this seemed to be the best forum for my question.

I have a problem with slugs in my garden and since I've been keeping bees (I have 5 colonies in both Langstroth and top bar hives) for the last five years, I've never used any chemicals in my yard out of concern over harming the bees. But the slugs this year are getting out of control and devouring all my veggies. I have an organic gardening book that mentions DE <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatomaceous_earth> as a slug killer, but it also mentions that it may be harmful to other insects (primarily soft-bodied creatures), including beneficials although it gets no more specific than that.

Does anyone know *for sure* that DE is safe to use in the presence of bees? I wouldn't be dusting flowers of course (I'd be putting it on the ground), but I know bees sometimes collect dusty materials thinking that it's pollen, and I'm concerned that if they got interested in DE, that it could be really bad for them.

And if DE is *known* to be unsafe for bees, does anyone have any suggestions for killing slugs that won't be harmful to the bees? The hardware store has only broad spectrum pesticides that I know will be harmful to the bees and I don't want to use that of course. Any suggestions would be most welcome.

Thanks for any replies.


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## Hambone (Mar 17, 2008)

Use Sluggo. Active ingredient is iron phosphate. It kills the slugs and then breaks down into fertilizer. Most organic centers carry it. 

Or if you are spot treating. Pour salt on them. Organic salt of course.


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## beekeeperlady (Mar 25, 2009)

*throw the slugs a beer party.....*

lol a drinking party. they love stale beer.. something in the scent.. put beer in a shallow bowl.. in the garden in a shady spot they frequent.. they will go in drink and drown.. bees generally are not tee tolers so should be safe..


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## Noelle (Apr 26, 2009)

Unfortunately I don't have any personal experience with DE. I do know you can bait, drunken and drown slugs in a saucer or pie pan of beer. It's a little labor intensive as you need to set it out before night and collect it full of dead stinky slugs during the day and then reset it. but it does work.

I recently read and article in Gardening magazine the "green" issue where the author swore by this idea. Warning it is gross and yucky.  He recommends collecting slugs and whipping them up in a blender with water. He then sprays or sprinkles it back where he finds the slugs. It works he says because of either the smell of panic hormones (alarm pheromones anyone?) or just that slugs don't go where blended slugs are. This also works with bugs of various types.  He recommends washing your harvest well before eating - ick.

He also makes a concoction of hot peppers, garlic or chilisauce with water and a dash of liquid soap. Pureed strained and sprayed on plant surfaces top and undersides. Also wash off before eating.

orange rinds left to attract slugs and then manually remove them from the garden

I hope some of these ideas help - nothing more frustrating that seeing all your hardwork and gardening joy be destroyed.


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## wayacoyote (Nov 3, 2003)

Like you said, DE isn't selective. When I redid my mom's flowerbed, I sprinkled DE on the soil, covered it all with newspaper and topped it with pine straw. Her slug problem disappeared.


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## Merlyn Votaw (Jun 23, 2008)

I have read everything I can find about diatomaceous earth and bees but found nothing. I have roaches in some of my hives.Will diatomaceous help and if so how much?


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## nathan (Jun 10, 2010)

I have used DE for years in my garden, and have never seen any dead bees, but I can't find any studies that deal with DE and bees. My experience says that DE wouldn't harm the bees if used in the garden. I have even considered experimenting with it in the hives for mite control, mixing it with dry sugar and letting the bees distribute it themselves. I don't think I would actually dust it into the hives for fear of clogging the trachea or having it get between the leg joints. Something as large as a roach or a bee would have to practically roll in it to cause damage, and then chances are slim that the damage would be mortal as in the case of a small or soft-bodied insect.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Noelle said:


> collecting slugs and whipping them up in a blender with water. He then sprays or sprinkles it back where he finds the slugs. It works he says because of either the smell of panic hormones (alarm pheromones anyone?) or just that slugs don't go where blended slugs are. This also works with bugs of various types.


My dad used to do that for Japanese beetles, cabbage worms or whatever the bug du-jour was. One theory is that when you blend up a bunch of bugs some of them will contain bug specific disease organisms that rapidly multiply in the broth so it's like your are spreading bug sars or ebola or something. I've heard that blending them in milk and letting it ferment for a few hours makes it even more disgusting.

I can't see why this wouldn't work on zombies too.


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

DE works on slugs, & snails, by cutting their soft underbelly.
Then they dehydrate.


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## newbee816 (Jul 6, 2008)

non iodized salt. Slugs almost destoyed all of my lillys and I used salt with no iodine. worked like a charm


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## USCBeeMan (Feb 7, 2009)

DE works great. Yes it will kill bees. Killed one of my hives accidently with it. I sow it all around my hives on the ground and under the hives. Helps with SHB, SHB larva and other critters. I have put it on my veggies too. It appears to me that the bees seem to stay away from it when it's on plants. It's on plants around my hives. Have not seen any unnormal bee attrition.

I also put it in trays that slide under my screened bottom boards. Just don't throw it up in the air where it can get on the bees. I can assure you that it will kill every bee in a contained area if the air circulating is full of DE.

DE kills 3 ways:

1: Slices the insects outside shell causing it to dehydrate and/or bleed.
2: Gets on the insects body and absorbs the wax which keeps the insect protected. Insect dies from dehydration.
3: Insects breath it in through their tracheal tubes (or whatever they have). It slices the insides of these tubes and any other organs it comes in contact.

I am a distributor for Perma-Guard DE. They are by far the largest company which mines and sells DE. They only sell Food Grade DE. The FSF DE - Fossilized Shell Flour can be eaten by mamals and is good for their digestion. Including humans. Perma-Guard also sells a couple of Food Grade DE products which also have an added ingrediant which causes the insects to die faster by making them more hyper active. The more they move around the quicker the natuarl action of the DE does more damage.


If you need more info, I will provide it if Perma-Guard has the info. There is also a very simple trap that can be made with a pice of cardboard, popsicle sticks, DE and glue. SHBs will get to the DE and die but the bees cannot get inside the trap.

Ken


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## CAHighwind (Jun 9, 2010)

I'll second the Sluggo suggestion. We used to recommend it at the vet clinic for folks that didn't want to kill their pets with the usual slug/snail baits. It won't hurt bees at all, or anything else in the yard that isn't of the gastropod persuasion.


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## hilreal (Aug 16, 2005)

I have been battling slugs this year due to all the rain. Simplest and safest method is to take a small can (tuna, cat food, etc.) and push slightly into the ground. Then half fill with beer. I caught literally hundreds the first night. If the dogs and cats get into it no problem just makes them a little happy


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

Iron phosphate pellets (Sluggo, Escar-Go, and other brands) is the single thing that lets me garden with the huge number of snails and slugs that are attracted to my heavily mulched garden. As Hambone said, you can find it in the organic section of garden stores.

The main problem I had with it suddenly started disappering from the garden beds overnight. Turned out crows love to eat the stuf and I had to make scarecrows to protect the pellets.

Wayne


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## nathan (Jun 10, 2010)

Questions for USCBeeMan. How specifically did you kill off a hive? Was the DE used as a dusting on the frames? Since mites typically cause more problems in the off-season, I've been wondering about mixing DE with supplemental feeding during spring build-up if the hives show signs of mite problems. This thread might need to move to the biological thread as a new topic, I'm just learning about threads and such.


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## USCBeeMan (Feb 7, 2009)

I was sowing out some DE around the hives. Had a gust of wind take a clump of it up onto the landing board at the entrance. Several weeks later the hive was dead. Emerging bees died as they tried to get out. Plenty of stores and bees.

I also did a cutout in a chimney. Opened up the chimney in several places and vacuumed out a huge amount of bees. The bee vac was still on the roof with the vacuum running to keep the bees cool.

At some point I decided it was time to go ahead and spray the inside of the chimney openings and entrances with DE that I had put in a "sevn pump sprayer". The type you grandma use to use. Sprayed the powered DE very throughly inside the chimney. All of the bees were dead within 2 days.

Stopped the vacuum, unhooked it from the robovac (beehive inside of suction area). Brought bees home. Gave them all to my helper. He called me the next day and said they were all dead. I have never had a total kill of bees using my robovac before or since. In fact, the kill off is very miniscule. Less than 1% probably.

Well I checked the boxes when he brought them back and the hose portion that sucks the bees into the robovac. There was a coating of DE dust in the hose.

Bees died for inhalation of DE which killed them from the inside.!!

Do not put DE as a feed additive for Bees!!!!!! Great for animals and humans but not insects.!!!!

As a feed additive for horses (an example). DE keeps the feed free of bugs. Horses digest the DE/feed mixture. Get some trace elements and also kills parasites and certain bacteria in the GI tract. (Other benefits show up.) Almost 100% of the DE is removed via the manure. Flies lay eggs in the manure. Eggs turn into larva/maggots. 100% kill off of the maggots as they move through the manure filled with DE. Eventually there is very little fly problems.


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## nathan (Jun 10, 2010)

Thanks Ken USCBeeMan, you confirmed my suspicions. Those are the very reasons I had been hesitant to do any experimentation beyond thought experiments. I use DE in my chicken's feed from time to time and can confirm its effectiveness in fly control, it's not even necessary to use it all the time, just on a random when I remember basis.


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## ShelleyStuart (Jan 4, 2010)

I use Sluggo on my garden, and it works fantastically. I get mine at Agway. Lasts through a rain or two, as well.


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## sammyholderman (Aug 28, 2013)

tenqueens said:


> Hi All.
> 
> I'm pretty sure as long as you are not using it inside the hive, it should be okay. I use it in and around my chicken coop, where I store my feed, on my lawn and in my gardens and have NEVER seen a dead bee. I'm also fortunate enough to have a bee-tree on my property. In fact, I WISH it would kill wasps, but I've seen no evidence of that either . I first discovered Food Grade DE here: http://www.gardenharvestsupply.com/ProductCart/pc/Food-Grade-Diatomaceous-Earth-c11.htm If you scroll down there is a bunch more information about all of the uses for DE and how it works. And for all of you who don't know...it works on bedbugs too! Never had the pleasure...and hope I never do...but good to know.


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## Stingy (Dec 14, 2010)

I use DE around the base of my hive to keep the constant surge of ants from getting to the honey and so far it's worked pretty well. Occasionally a bee will fly into the powder, some will fly right out and get back to business others will roll around in until they eventually die, but I have not seen any case of mass-casualties.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

Many natural ways to reduce slugs have been mentioned, D.E. may, very well, be quite effective, yet unlikely to harm honey bees.

I prefer to use thin bamboo skewers. They are cheap; each one can hold many slugs, and it is very satisfying to be directly involved in their demise.


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## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)

You have a duck deficiency problem.  (citing Bill Mollison here)

Ducks do a great job removing slugs from your property. A pair of ducks clear one hectare.


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

Merlyn Votaw said:


> I have read everything I can find about diatomaceous earth and bees but found nothing. I have roaches in some of my hives.


Slum lord.


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## Kampusa (Apr 15, 2014)

Can you give diagram or instructions for trap


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## labradorfarms (Dec 11, 2013)

I just put 20 pounds of bug be gone around my hives before a rain..... So far it seems to have kept the aints, snails and other vermin away.. Plus it didn't harm my bee's....


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## Beestricken (May 16, 2013)

I'll throw another vote in for Sluggo. I just discovered it last year and I won't use anything else now.


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## labradorfarms (Dec 11, 2013)

Is this stuff safe to put on and around your a Vegaable garden?


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## johng (Nov 24, 2009)

You can put a small saucer filled with beer out in the evening. The slugs will crawl in the beer and drown. My mom has used this method before in her garden with pretty good success.


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## taylor (May 3, 2014)

Does anyone know *for sure* that DE is safe to use in the presence of bees?

yes it is safe around bees personally I would save the DE for clearing my wines. use salt to kill any slugs/ snails in the hive and use copper tape from gardening centres/nurseries to prevent any more from entering the hive by wrapping it around the legs oh your hive about half way up the leg. just as a added tip bit culinary chilli powder mixed with cinnamon powder sprinkled over the frames will drive ants out of a hive


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Does anyone know for sure that DE is safe to use in the presence of bees?

DE will kill any insects if they are exposed. The question is whether they will get exposed.


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