# Buying, Selling Pollination Contracts



## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

When a beekeeper agrees to turn over a well established pollination contract to another beekeeper for a price, what is customary and fair?
Example: Beekeeper A has been pollinating 100 acres of blueberries for years. The grower is accustomed to seeing Beekeeper B's hives there in many of the years, filling in for excess.
In fact, the grower is aquainted with both beekeepers.
Beekeeper A aquires additional acreage elsewhere and agrees to turn over the entire account permanently to Beekeeper B for a price.
What is the price?
Of course, it could bee free if they are buddies, but I am interested in examples you can provide of payment amounts and structure.
Thank You!


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## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

I wouldn't pay another beekeeper for a pollination contract if he wants to take his own hives somewhere else. If he was happy with what he was getting paid he would stay where he was at. It sounds like he wants you to make less than he was because he wants you to pay him to place hives in place of his. Just because you pay him for contract take over doesn't mean the grower has to resign following contracts so you could get the short end of the stick. Deal directly with the grower. If beekeeper A has the contract with the grower than it is between them 2. The grower would want a contract with beekeeper B if he was taking over so that would be between themselves. Business is business, you do it for profit.


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

The question was not " if you would pay for a contract".
I am looking for beekeepers experienced in buying, selling contracts ONLY! 
Thank You!


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

Brokerage fees.
10 to 20 % right off the top.
Some brokered contracts state in the contract that you can not deal grower direct until 3 years after your contract.
You should get some very interesting answers.
Ermie


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## Trevor Mansell (Jan 16, 2005)

I know some of the bigger beekeepers usually charge one pollination fee .


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

I would just say that in order to "sell" a contract first you have to hold it. In other words already contracted with grower. If you don't have an agreement for next year or the year after how can you "sell" it? 

These kind of things are usually included in "good will" when some one sells a business.

What if you "sold" the contract but then the grower decided to use someone else? Are you liable for loss of income? If you "sell" the contract do you state guaranteed price? How could you do this if you are not the one paying?

I think in order to sell something first you have to own it.

Although they say someone once sold the Brooklyn bridge to a neophyte.


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## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

HarryVanderpool said:


> The question was not " if you would pay for a contract".


You asked-"When a beekeeper agrees to turn over a well established pollination contract to another beekeeper for a price, what is customary and fair?"

I gave you an answer to the question with my experience. I've taken over a few small blueberry pollinations and apple pollinations and I didn't pay anything. The previous beeks were not friends, but they wanted to go somewhere else.

What is customary and fair? I guess what the beekeeper selling to you wants!

Is the grower going to pay this beekeeper then he will pay you or are you going to be dealing directly with the grower?

You are talking about a 100 hive contract for blueberries not a 1,000 hive contract for almonds where the broker does some of the work.


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

BEES4U, are you saying that the buyer paid 10 - 20% for 3 years and then took over the contract?
This seems much more practical than a lump sum up-front because you never know when the grower could jump ship and go with someone else.
Please keep the (meaningful) answers coming. I am interested in examples that you may have.


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## peacekeeperapiaries (Jun 23, 2009)

If beek-A decides to vacate and Beek-B picks up the contract with the grower why should Beek-A get paid anything when he decided to leave? No brokers are involved and i can deal directly with the grower who needs the bees. :scratch:


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

peacekeeperapiaries said:


> If beek-A decides to vacate and Beek-B picks up the contract with the grower why should Beek-A get paid anything when he decided to leave? No brokers are involved and i can deal directly with the grower who needs the bees. :scratch:


In business, it's called a finders fee.
Sometimes the original bee keeper has had a set back in numbers or has over extended himself on contracts.
Sometimes, just sometimes beekeeper # 2 will uder cut beekeeper # 1 to get his foot in the door.
Ernie


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## Trevor Mansell (Jan 16, 2005)

peacekeeperapiaries said:


> If beek-A decides to vacate and Beek-B picks up the contract with the grower why should Beek-A get paid anything when he decided to leave? No brokers are involved and i can deal directly with the grower who needs the bees. :scratch:


"Pollination is usually built on relationships ",that comes directly from Dave Mendes one of the largest and most successful pollinators in the business. Not many established farms will go to a new beekeeper based on price alone.


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## wfarler (Jul 9, 2003)

HarryVanderpool said:


> The question was not " if you would pay for a contract".
> I am looking for beekeepers experienced in buying, selling contracts ONLY!
> Thank You!


No offense intented but I don't believe you are looking for a beekeeper, what you are describing is a broker. When you use a broker you expect something in return, more so than a finders fee. A good broker arranges the contract and takes reasonable care in evaluating the buyers ability to pay and the sellers ability to deliver.

A beekeeper making an empty promise without assurances the grower will even use pollenator 'B' is selling the goodwill they purport to have with the grower. If 'A' has no intent on continuing to service the grower and does not have a long term contract you would have to question the practice, particularly if the sale is not fully disclosed to the grower. Pollenator 'B' would be better off to offer the grower a discount or signing bonus and build goodwill with the grower rather make payments to a beekeeper who is off to greener pastures anyway. This is more beneficial to the true players in the market (the pollenator and the grower) than the exiting player who has no intent of delivering value. Moreover, if 'A' is leaving for an undisclosed reason such as growers use of chemicals, poor payment history, etc. and this is not disclosed then 'A' is unethical.

If someone offers you a contract like this and lacks a long term contract with the grower I would recommend going straight to the grower and make your pitch. It's called competition. If the grower wants to go through a broker then that is his decision. If 'A' gets mad ask him what value he intended to deliver. If you are looking to sell pollenation relationships and do not have long term contracts I would recommend you first get permission from the grower and provide them some value such as evaluating the ability of who you sell your goodwill to, their ability to actually fulfil the service, references, etc.

When I was young I bought a 'contract' like this in another line of business without talking to the real buyer. The seller then wanted to 'break the news' after the fact so the buyer would ease into it - I considered it dishonest and was out 900 bucks for the lesson. I quickly learned that I could sell my own service just by asking - expecially after my reputation was established and I could hand out references to call. A true broker provides a service and has full disclosure and agreement with all parties. In real estate and business brokerage a brokers responsibility is defined by law and carries liability if not carried out. A casual beekeeper attempting to sell his relationships should be asked for his brokers credentials, what contract's he has with the grower, what guarantee's he provides.

In other industries this type of casual brokering of introductions is sometimes referred to as 'pimping'. However, there is precedent for this type of sale of contracts, if you bundle the contracts together and separate the pollenation fees into 3 traunches, then securitize each traunch and sell these to investors who pay 'A' for the right to extract payments from 'B' and then collatoralize these as debt obligations (known as a CDO) to insure the buyers of 'A's' contracts still get paid when 'B' goes broke from pesticide and colony collapse or if the grower goes broke from drought and cannot pay 'B'. This way 'A' delivers no service and gets paid. The investors get bailed out by the banks and hedge funds holding the CDO's who are then bailed out by the government. The grower and 'B' are out of business but have the warmth and comfort of knowing they own A's goodwill.


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

There you have it. Well said!


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

Tom G. Laury said:


> There you have it. Well said!


Sorry Tom; but there I DON"T have it.

I am not interested in "right or wrong" or "I would or wouldnt" or "why don't you just..."

So far I have had 2 answers to the question:
1) One pollination fee.
2) 10- 20% for 3 years.

Does anybody else have information on rates, fee structures on buying and selling of contracts between beekeepers?

Thank you for your insight!


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

No I don't. And since you aren't getting very many answers to your OP, I imagine that there aren't very many situations in which this has happened.

Are you in this situation and trying to find out what is proper, so you can do the right thing?


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

Harry we are just trying to protect you, wouldn't want you to buy a pig in a poke.


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## 123456789 (May 24, 2009)

HarryVanderpool said:


> Sorry Tom; but there I DON"T have it.
> 
> I am not interested in "right or wrong" or "I would or wouldnt" or "why don't you just..."
> 
> ...


There were a few answers that you might not like but I agree with them. Under that scenerio I wouldn't pay a cent.


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## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

30+ years in the business, this is something I wouldn't touch as a buyer or seller.:doh:


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## cow pollinater (Dec 5, 2007)

I haven't seen this in bees yet but I have seen it a few times in my artificial insemenation business. EVERY time that I've seen it the customer and the guy who buy the contract get screwed . Hard feelings win out and the customer moves to somebody else.
How would you like it if you were loyal to a certain company who you felt had your best interests at heart only to find out later that they sold that loyalty to someone new for money?
Agriculture is by and large a shake hand and look him in the eye business... Loyalty isn't bought and sold very often.
Sorry for not answering your original question.


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## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

HarryVanderpool said:


> So far I have had 2 answers to the question:
> 1) One pollination fee.
> 2) 10- 20% for 3 years.


I'm not trying to cause arguement with you but you have three answers. You just want to listen to what you want and not what is being said. Now I have to ask- Are you beekeeper "A" wanting to justify to beekeeper "B" why he has to pay you "X" amount to do a job you don't?


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## peacekeeperapiaries (Jun 23, 2009)

I understand that pollination contracts are built on relationships, I don't and would never condone undercutting another person regardless of what business we are involved in, however the orginal post led me to believe he had a relationship with the original pollinator who was vacating and looking to get paid for providing the "contact" for pollination. It could be the other way around and the original poster was the first pollinator and fishing to find out how much his "contact" was worth. Either way just as I stated I don't condone undercutting, neither would I charge a fellow beek a "finders fee" for providing a "contact" for a contract that I chose not to fufill any longer. I would make the introduction and hope both the farmer in need of pollination, and the beek to whom I passed the torch good luck.


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

For all of you that are reading through this tread for the first time; please do not allow all of the off-topic posts to discourage you from posting your information.
So far I have had 2 answers to the question:
1) One pollination fee.
2) 10- 20% for 3 years.

Thank you in advance for your time!
I really appreciate it!!


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

Just be careful, Harry, don't pay too much for something you may not be able to pin down.


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## 123456789 (May 24, 2009)

I'll go out on a limb and say Harry might be the seller, otherwise it makes no sense. :shhhh:


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

If anyone wants their own pollination contract and is willing to pay one years pollination for it, PLEASE LET ME KNOW!. PM or Email. Any size or number of colonies.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

Harry,
I am working on some avocado pollination contracts.
I will update the information as it accumulates.
Ernie


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## beebze (Sep 24, 2007)

Harry:

Since your a friend I'll give you a $100.00 dollars for any Contracts over 50 hives. And you can keep being my friend!!!  

I read the responses, I think people here just don't get it. I have wondered the same thing. My smaller contracts I give away to inspiring beekeepers. 

I'm surprise there were not more beekeeper that ran across situations like this. Maybe here where we live things are more competitive. 

I'll tell you what I'll trade my smaller contract for your bigger ones. Sounds fair to me. Hope you get what your looking for. 

Harry there are issues that come up, like what if beekeeper B doesn't get along with the Farmer. Then beekeeper B looses out on that contract Farmer will go looking elsewhere. 

Hope all is going well with you 

Andy


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

beebze said:


> Harry there are issues that come up, like what if beekeeper B doesn't get along with the Farmer. Then beekeeper B looses out on that contract Farmer will go looking elsewhere.
> 
> Hope all is going well with you
> 
> Andy


Hi Andy. Everything is going well except for this sucky weather.
I just can't bring myself to work hives at 38 degrees F. t:

Talked to Chuck; he gave me another formula:
Half of the contract revenue the first year and then the contract is yours.

You bring up my main concern, Andy; What if you swing the deal and then the grower plows the field and plants Christmans trees?

Seems like 10 - 20% for the first 3 years is the fairest of all posted so far.

Please pray for global warming to increase here soon! Tomorrow would be perfect!


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## WOpp (May 29, 2009)

I would not pay very much. First thing to consider is the grower. If he's not happy about the change he will have someone else in there before your hard earned check clears the bank. Now you are out your money and your contract. Be very carful with deals of this type. They seldom work well for the buyer. Good Luck


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

Sure sounds good for the seller though.


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## wfarler (Jul 9, 2003)

you ask a very good question Harry. What price did the grower suggest you charge when you asked him?


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