# top bar width



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

What you want to figure out is what the bees prefer. Mine seem to like 1.25" for brood and 1.5" for honey.


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## AvatarDad (Mar 31, 2016)

Similarly, mine are 1 3/8 and 1 5/8 (or even a little bigger) respectively. Still in the same ball park, but a little bigger for mine.

Yunzow: I know you've used some Fat-Bee-Man genetics, and the one I got from him is doing 1 3/8. His bees are raised in Lang equipment and they like that spacing, at least in year one.


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## Yunzow (Mar 16, 2017)

thanks for the tip!



AvatarDad said:


> Similarly, mine are 1 3/8 and 1 5/8 (or even a little bigger) respectively. Still in the same ball park, but a little bigger for mine.
> 
> Yunzow: I know you've used some Fat-Bee-Man genetics, and the one I got from him is doing 1 3/8. His bees are raised in Lang equipment and they like that spacing, at least in year one.


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## Corto (May 29, 2017)

Mine are 1 3/8 and I add 1/8" spacer strips in the honey area and it has worked fine.


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

I have 1 3/8th and 1 5/8th inside the hives. The bees use either bar for brood or honey depending on what they are needing at the time, although I will admit that I move bars around more than most beekeepers would do. The kit from Beeline was designed to have the narrower bars in the brood chamber on one side and the wider bars on the other side for honey stores.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

At the moment I have a mix of 1 1/4 and 1 1/2 bars.

I think I am giving up on this idea of having two widths - not working and only creates hassle.
If you are keeping like me (this is a disclaimer) - a bunch of nucs, and swarm traps, and larger hives of various sizes and stages - forget about it.
This idea of clean and neat separation of different bars just does not work.
Rather it makes for some hassle when you split and combine and catch swarms - you will mix different widths sooner or later and will only regret of going this route.

I will try my hardest to switch to a single width (the narrowest of the two) and use spacers instead when need wider spacing.


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## AvatarDad (Mar 31, 2016)

This is my first year using 2 widths, and I agree it is probably more bother than it is worth. I still use "brood bar plus spacer" and like its flexibility.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I went to two widths because having one was not working...


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Michael Bush said:


> I went to two widths because having one was not working...


Well, Michael, I recall you suggested to actually do the 1 1/4 width and use spacers to wider spacing if needed.
So now this looks somewhat inconsistent.
There was a very similar talk on Sol's TF forum.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Sure. 1 1/4" and spacers will be the same result as 1 1/4" and 1 1/2". You just add the spacers as needed, but then I have to rip all my bars and with two widths I only have to rip half of them and make the other half out of one by twos. Also, I have less parts with two sizes than two sizes and spacers. With 33 bars all 1 1/4" I'd have to have the 33 bars and 15 or 20 spacers. Nothing wrong with either solution. Just trade offs. Having all the same size bars has its advantages. The extra parts are the disadvantage. Suggesting that there is more than one way to do something is not what I would call inconsistent... Having all 1 1/2" bars did not work well. Having all 1 1/4" bars did not work well. Having half and half did. Having all 1 1/4" and additional spacers would work out to be about the same as having two sizes but you would need spacers for every honey bar and I don't see that as being simpler...


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

I think, MB, you make sense under conditions of "big enough" scale.

However, for the cases when the scale is not "big enough", different equipment sizing becomes a liability, not a benefit.

At this point I have just about 50/50 between 1 1/4" and 1 1/2" bars.
I am a very small scale keeper (just a homesteader with target # of 10-20 colonies).

Having a special set of "fat" frames of 1 1/2" specifically only used for honey is not efficient for me - these now become specialty equipment with limited usage in time and space.
I am now having hard time to gradually remove all the 1 1/2" frames from the operation as they are mixed in all over the place (I initially went 1 1/2" all across, which I now regret).

In my world, I want to be able to pick any frame anywhere, anytime and insert it where ever I need it right now.
A bucket of 1/4" spacers is "flexible, general purpose" equipment that works everywhere and every time and requires no special thinking. 
Just use them on the spot as needed.

In short, the smaller scale you are - the less specialty equipment you can afford in terms of expense and management.
A good example of such unnecessary specialty equipment, according to bushfarms.com, a honey extractor.
I don't own it and have no plans for it (just another liability to avoid).
So the scale of the operation is really the driving factor in many ways. 
This includes the decision around the bars, I feel.


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## shannonswyatt (May 7, 2012)

Spacers are your friends. I like 1.25, but the bees often disagree so I went with 1 3/8s. And spacers. Lots of spacers. Nice thing with spacers though is you can remove a spacer from two sides of a bar and remove a bar closer to the brood nest if you don't want to have to shift 20 bars or more.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Here is an example of what happens with double-combing on 1.5" bar..
Basically, I have an entire nuc built on a single frame, if think about it.

I got really tired of this particular double-frame until the hive finally died out.
Unfortunately, I have no time to run about and keep checking on the hives.
Caught it too late and let it slide. Some pain.
Now need cut/redo this monster.


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## AvatarDad (Mar 31, 2016)

shannonswyatt said:


> Spacers are your friends. ... Lots of spacers.


My equipment bucket during inspections always has a selection of spacers ranging from about 1/16" to 3/8", with most in the 1/8" range. If a new honey comb is riding a little in front of or behind the guide... use a spacer. If a brood comb is suddenly fat with honey... 2 big spacers, one before and one after. They take nearly no labor to create: when I'm making hives, bars, or other things, I invariably have cutoff scraps like this. Keep them. I'm a believer.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Over the long weekend, spent some time shaving my 1.5" bars down.
Not done yet, but a progress. What a pain.

Fortunately, my typical top bars are just screwed in.
Unscrew - run through table saw - screw back in.
A nice side-effect was that I just created myself lots of spacers in the process too.








Unfortunately, I also had to shave off the end bars down to the new spec.
Oh well, no pain - no gain. 
Not looking back.


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## beesforall (Jun 27, 2018)

1.25 for brood seems to get the hive up and running much faster than 1.5, in my experience. However, using two different widths does exacerbate cross-combing, and boy is it a hassle to make those skinny bars!


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