# 10 acres of Pumpkins in full bloom, Amish soaking them with Sevin!?!?!!!!!



## TIMER (Apr 17, 2011)

When I came home today my Amish neighbors were spraying their pumpkin field (in full bloom) with Sevin.
Only 200 yards from my 50 colony home yard. I went straight over to talk to them and they had apparently just gotten started.
However they had already sprayed a good strip and I could clearly see the bees working the open blooms.
They were very polite and stopped the spraying.
I offered to screen in my bees tonight so they could spray in the AM.
After the spray has dried I will open things back up. I don't think there are many options here.
They don't want to lose the pumpkins, I don't want to lose my bees.
Any suggestions? Will the bees be harmed by this once the spray has dried?


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

The Amish using pesticides, what is this world coming to.


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## Riskybizz (Mar 12, 2010)

From the net...

Carbaryl (Sevin)

Bees poisoned with carbaryl can take 2–3 days to die, appearing inactive as if cold. It allows them time to take contaminated nectar and pollen back to the colony. Some crops treated with Sevin under the wrong conditions (in bloom, using a dust formulation, with large numbers of bees in the field) have been responsible for disastrous kills. Sevin is one of the United States' most widely used insecticides for a wide variety of insect pests. It is also one of the most toxic to honey bees, in certain formulations. These should never be sprayed on flowering crops especially if bees are active and the crop requires pollination. There are formulations, however, which are determined to be less toxic (see tables). Usually, applicator-beekeeper communication can effectively be used to adequately protect bees from Sevin poisoning.


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## mulesii (Jun 10, 2012)

Your neighbors must be Mennonites. Amish would not use pesticides.


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## spieker (Jun 26, 2009)

I raise some winter squash. It blooms in the AM and usually by mid afternoon the blossoms are closed. I would think pumpkins would do the same. I think it would be best if the pumpkins were sprayed in the evening when the blossoms are closed. Then, in the AM, the blossoms will open up and be clean. Otherwise, the Sevin spray will get into the blossoms. 

I am not an expert on this. Just trying to help.


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## danmcm (May 23, 2012)

agree with spieker. squash and pumpkin bloom early and are often worked by squash bee and honey bee early in day. Best for bee if spray is late in day but if it is wet and humid it's not so good for the pumpkin... without pollinators hitting those flowers they will have alot drop off and have poor pumpkin set. And lets be real Amish like baptists are different from area to area and some are more lax then others. Squash bugs and squash beetles are hard to control and they don't have a good bio-control out there for them. gotta strike a balance.


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## TIMER (Apr 17, 2011)

These are dirt floor poor Amish, very good people but no recourse for me if they kill my bees.
Just got off the phone with Bayer Crop Science, the first thing the representative said is make sure the wind isn't blowing toward your bees. I just about exploded on him, he obviously knew nothing about pollination.
Then he pulled the label up on his system and said wait a minute the residual will kill bees for up to 30 days (well DUH!!!)
His final answer was "tell them to find another (more bee friendly) product to take care of their problem or they'll hear from your attorney". As I said these are very poor Amish, and It would do no good to go after them.


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

Amish I know always use loads of pesticides. They have too, their lives depend on the crop.


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## matt1954 (Sep 8, 2010)

We pollinate hundreds of acres of pumpkins. Our growers spray at night. They also move the hives (which are on trailers) out of the area prior to spraying and return them the next evening or later depending on the type of spray.


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## TIMER (Apr 17, 2011)

I spoke with the Amishmen again, he said he would give me time (a day or so) to find an alternative control for his bug problem.
I have posted a pic of the invader, does anyone know of a bee friendly method to control these?
He has no idea what they are but he knew Sevin would knock them out.
I don't really see any damage to his pumpkins?
When I collected this sample (6:30 PM) as others have said the blooms were closed, however ther were still lots of bees looking for open ones.
The Amish still thinks he must spray something. It is now on me to find out what can be safely used.
This is a permanent yard so moving the bees out would not be an easy fix, especially with a 30 day residual.


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## [email protected] (May 12, 2010)

Now everyone should know why I refuse to pollinate squash or pumpkins. Just too much exposure to pesticide. I wish you luck. You need to impress upon your neighbors the need to READ AND FOLLOW the directions. Remind them that pesticide lables are not only directions but they also are federal law.


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

I grow pumpkins; I only spray when the plants are young. By this time of year they are large and strong enough that the squash bugs and cuc Beatles really cant do much damage. Before they start to run is when they are most vulnerable.

The flowers close in late afternoon, just ask that the spray after they close so your bees are not in the field and the flowers themselves are not getting sprayed.


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## [email protected] (May 12, 2010)

I just saw the post of the pest. Squash bugs! Hard to control without pesticide.


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## ken rice (Apr 28, 2010)

I also have bees on a field of pumpkin. When the plant is mature the blooms will remain open during the day if they are in the shade of the leaves.


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## Hawkster (Apr 16, 2010)

take a look at Spinosad sic ? one brand is Captain Jack's Dead bug Brew. it is toxic to bees when wet but once it dries it has minimal impact (or so they say)


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## Skinner Apiaries (Sep 1, 2009)

Thiodane aka Endosulfan, 8 hours toxicity, or Asana aka Esfenvalerate no toxicity to bees on blooms once dry. Both will drop bees on the spot if they're sprayed. Take it from me. I have bees, and spray on the bloom, all the time. When crops need sprayin, they get it, and the bees always get consideration. Flip flop, both of those chemicals are registered pesticides requiring applicator license.


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## suburbanrancher (Aug 5, 2011)

Mind you, this advice is coming from someone who had only a few squash plants. We would actually use tape to press against the eggs and wingless nymphs to kill them, but I can tell you that squash bugs will very quickly devastate a plant and the produce affecting it's appearance and ability to keep in storage. I try to avoid spraying but if I use anything, I use either Spinosad or Permethrin in the evening to minimize the effect on all pollinators. I believe Permethrin needs to actually contact bees to cause problems. Adult squash bugs are hard to kill...
I'm not an expert just sharing my inexpert knowledge.:scratch:


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## buzz abbott (Mar 6, 2012)

I don't know the law in Mich, but in CA pesticide users can be held libel for spraying near the hives if they don't follow the protocol in the statute. Find out the law in your area Show it to the farmer if it favors you.


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## Skinner Apiaries (Sep 1, 2009)

lol to guns. Not much pesticide problems on mine, and with the right chems it dosen't hurt the bees more than what the rest of the ag crows is dousing the world in. As far as spray on pumpkins, it's bravo bravo bravo. I'm so tired of bravo. I spray, it rains, I spray, it rains. Luckily low toxicity to bees. so if you see spraying on pumpkins and automatically assume its killing bees, OR that you know what they're actually doing, that's unprofitable. Ironically sevin and premethrin, the two most used pesticides by small operators/homeowners, are pretty much the most, extremely toxic to bees. But seriously, you see a guy spray pumpkins 8 times, its fungicide. Bugs are easier to kill than fungus, one, maybe two rotations of systemic knocks em dead.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

mulesii said:


> Your neighbors must be Mennonites. Amish would not use pesticides.


You shouldn't use generalizations like that. They aren't true. I know plenty of Amish who use pesticides.


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## Ledge (Dec 15, 2010)

My wife doesn't use pesticides, and says that the only way to get rid of them without pesticides is by manually squashing every bug you see, and pulling off any leave containing eggs,and squashing them. What she does is plant radishes in between each of her squash or pumpkin plants. Apparently, the stink bugs don't like the radishes, and bug off. Of course, this does you absolutely no good whatsoever.


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## julysun (Apr 25, 2012)

Pumpkin flowers are only open for one day, can't you lock up your bees for 24 hours with screens? The traveling boys do it all the time. New day new flowers, even go for 36 hours. :s


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## Lady Luck (Mar 15, 2012)

Sevin XLR Plus may be an alternative spray. It can be sprayed in the evening and once it is dry is non-toxic to honeybees. It is effective for chewing insects. I'm not sure how squash bugs harm the plants, but may be a possible alternative if someone has to spray with bees present.


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## [email protected] (May 12, 2010)

I know this dosn't apply to large acreages but on a small scale, milk works on powdery mildew. Matt Debacco at Uconn did a study that showed 40% whole milk and 60% water sprayed on the leaves really works. I use this on my Giant Pumpkins with good results.


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## Skinner Apiaries (Sep 1, 2009)

well I have PM resistant pumpkins, two varieties, but downy mildew kicked in and one variety is handling that much better. to be specific tilt bravo. I like ridamil but its 780 a gallon. Def not gonna use that on pumpkins. Maybe on watermelons.


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## Beetrucker74 (Oct 10, 2010)

julysun said:


> Pumpkin flowers are only open for one day, can't you lock up your bees for 24 hours with screens? The traveling boys do it all the time. New day new flowers, even go for 36 hours. :s


We traveling boys do not screen hives. We laod them on a truck then net the whole load. And then the truck has to keep moving all day long or you will cook the load, goes the same for doing it to a hive sitting on the ground you screen it even for a day and you WILL cook the hive killing most if not all the bees and brood. We pollinate Pumpkins all the time, our growers spray before the bloom before we set the bees in.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

I think if there is a lesson to be learned from this situation it is that some sort of provision should be made ahead of time to have the equipment hand to screen in your hives or have them on some sort of pallet that would allow them to be quickly and easily moved out of the area.


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## danmcm (May 23, 2012)

tough situation on both sides of this fence.

the squash bug is hard to kill and the adult form of what you pictured is quicker and hard bodied and hides. I wouldn't want the answer to sevin to be a systemic which is sprayed less often but is present in all plant tissues including pollen and nectar all the time. I have a large home garden growing summer and winter squash so the food supply is present longer for these buggars they suck the plant and scar the fruit reducing health of plant and appeal of produce. I used sevin in the evening it is contact so i get under leaves and around based where they hide then let it dry. when the flowers open in the morning it shouldn't be a problem unless they are drinking dew from leaves. Might want to close hives up for half a day after treatment to really let it dry. They will have to treat several more times this season. Recourse for losses wouldn't be the farmer if he is using it as lable indicates but many states will reimburse in this type of situation. good luck


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

Without seeing what the label on the specific formulation being used, it's hard to say anything...but a quick google found what appears to be a standard label for sevin...it states in part:


> This product is highly toxic to bees exposed to direct treatment or residues on blooming crops or weeds. *Do not apply this product or allow it to drift to blooming crops or weeds if bees are visiting the treatment area*. Contact your Cooperative Agricultural Extension SErvice or your local Bayer Environmental Science rep. for further information.
> 
> Directions For Use
> It is a violation of Federal Law to use this product in a manner inconsistant with its labeling.


...you can move the bees...but who is going to move the other pollinators? This use is most likely a clear violation of the label and therefore the law...and it's environmentally (and agriculturally) stupid.....they are poisoning the very insects that the need in order to have pumpkins...in order to grow pumpkins?

You have rights in this situation...if the neighbor is a reasonable sort, then you should talk to them. If not, contact your extension office, and cal bayer back and ask why they didn't point out that this was a direct violation of the label.

This is not something you have to live with.

deknow


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## VAMOM (Dec 27, 2011)

I don't know if you have much more time, but if you do, check with your local cooperative extension office. They should be able to help you with some alternative treatments to recommend to the neighbors that may be less harmful to the bees..

Good luck!


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

...the pumpkins are not your problem. It's not your land, and you did not plant them. Let your neighbors figure out how to grow pumpkins and deal with the pests an a legal and reasonably environmentally sound manner.

deknow


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## julysun (Apr 25, 2012)

I was thinking of my hives, with SBB and screened top vent I would have no problem blocking my entry for a day or two. And It is hot and humid in Houston. Other setups may differ. :lookout:


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

...you "would have no problem" if you tried it? ...or you have done it and had no problem?

a less populous hive with room to spare might be ok...but I'd rather try it on your bees than on mine.

deknow


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## julysun (Apr 25, 2012)

OK, I am ready, drop by anytime and we will run the test. If my bees face a life or death situation, I will use risky actions to save them every time rather than take no action. I know my bees can live for a week with two one bee entry holes because I have done that in a misguided effort to move to a top entry mode. Faced with Sevin in the morning With 50 hives at risk I would buy a ton of kitchen matches and prop up every hive body plus top plus bottom board and screen the entry. That is unless I could afford to take more extreme measures. OK, shoot me, but don't miss cause you won't like the return fire. :lookout:


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

...so the answer is that no, you have not tried screening your bees in for 2 days with a SBB and a screen top vent? ...yet you are willing to state that it would be no problem? Regardless of what you are "not", you are giving bad advice.
What good do "extreme measures" accomplish if they kill your bees?

When I screen in bees, it is with a full screen on the top and the bottom (and as I'm only doing this if I'm moving bees, I make sure there is plenty of extra room, even if I have to add in empty frames), and everything I do is geared towards getting them placed and unscreened ASAP. i've certainly had bees in a box screened in for a day, but never a box _full_ of bees.

The minute you "know" how something will work out, the bees will show you otherwise.

deknow


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## julysun (Apr 25, 2012)

My bees have full screens, top and bottom. You are advising that it is OK to screen in a hive, as you have done, if empty frames are added to give room for the bees and to remove the screens ASAP. Now that may give the poster something he can work with. Good of you more experienced Bee Keepers to give tried and proven advice that may save some hives. :applause:


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

Please don't put words in my mouth. I never advised that it was "ok to screen in a hive....if empty frames are added to give room...and to remove the screens ASAP."

I explained some of what I have done, and some of the precautions I have taken.

All of this is quite a bit different from simply screening in hives in the field. How packed is the hive full of bees? How much brood is going to emerge during the confinement (this is sometimes a problem for purchased nucs....a frame of emerging bees can cause overcrowding and death if there isn't room for them)? What is the temp? The humidity? The airflow? Are you going to give them water? How much? What method? What empty space is available (comb, foundation, undrawn foundationless frames)? Are the bees in full sun?

If the OP is doing well with the bees, they should be crowded in the hives...a good hive is too crowded to survive screening in for 2 days.

Confining bees is not something that should ever be performed without a lot of thought. Giving advice on what will work is a big responsibility (usually we give advice when we think someone should follow it). Giving advice to do something you have never tried (especially if you have not made this clear) is irresponsible.

In this situation, the neighbor is doing something illegal that harms the bees and all the other pollinators that would help their crops. I understand the responsible use of pesticides...this is not it...the neighbor is planting pumpkins that grow flowers to attract pollinators...then the neighbor is applying insect poison to the same flowers. The solution lies with the neighbor, not with screening in the bees.

deknow


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Well Dean is pretty much on the mark with everything he has stated. Yes screening should be done with the idea that it is a short term plan and that it shouldnt be done if temps are expected to be high and they are in an unshaded area. Moving them is a much better solution in my mind. Sure you have legal recourse if the labeling isnt strictly followed. The trouble that I have found with all of this is that landowners are folks we try real hard to get along with. Whether they are right or wrong you are going to turn them into an enemy if you threaten legal action. Quite often we beekeepers are just guests on others property, there isnt a whole lot in it for the landowner most of the time and if they sense you are threatening their livelihood you may well lose some good locations. Educate them as best you can but be mindful when you do that your problems will take a backseat to his problems.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

Jim, I agree that dealing with landowners and neighbors can be problematic. In this case, this is the beekeepers home yard and it seems that the neighbor is cooperating to some extent. I certainly would start with talking to the neighbor...but a home yard of 50 hives is worth protecting...and the neighbor has a lot to gain by having the bees next door...this sounds like something that can probably be worked out to everyone's advantage.

deknow


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## julysun (Apr 25, 2012)

http://www.beesource.com/resources/usda/managing-colonies-for-crop-pollination/

This article in BeeSource by the USDA Claims one way to protect bees from pesticides is entrance and top screening. It cautions that ventilation and temperature are hazards that must be tended to. Elsewhere it mentions wet burlap bag covers may be useful in that regard.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

julysun said:


> http://www.beesource.com/resources/usda/managing-colonies-for-crop-pollination/
> 
> This article in BeeSource by the USDA Claims one way to protect bees from pesticides is entrance and top screening.


no, it says that bees can be confined...it says nothing about entrance and top screening except when they talk about moving colonies.



> It cautions that ventilation and temperature are hazards that must be tended to. Elsewhere it mentions wet burlap bag covers may be useful in that regard.


...I think you need to read a bit more closely. The warnings about ventilation and temperature are under the heading of "moving colonies"...the subheading is "confining the bees", but this passage is clearly about confining the bees in order to move them, not about confining them in the field.

The sum total of the advice offered for confining bees without moving them in this document is as follows:


> If beekeepers are notified a couple of days prior to the time of application of a pesticide, they may be able to protect their colonies by moving them away temporarily or by confining the bees in the hive.


...no specifics, and I didn't see a reference to burlap anywhere in the document...wet or otherwise.

deknow


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

We are "fiddling while Rome burns". Move the bees NOW!!!!. Talk to the neighbor later. Enough "scratchin' and spittin'"

Crazy Roland


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

TIMER said:


> It is now on me to find out what can be safely used.
> This is a permanent yard so moving the bees out would not be an easy fix, especially with a 30 day residual.


I know neighbor stuff can be difficult...but making this your problem doesn't make it your problem. It is up to the neighbor not to use pesticides illegally (and there are real consequences...this isn't a minor technicality.

deknow


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## JCA Beeswax Processing (Feb 18, 2012)

Sevin can hit again and again if bees store pollen and use later in the year. Run Forrest Run. Deal with neighbors later.


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## TIMER (Apr 17, 2011)

Ok, I've gotten the extension office involved and their working on a solution.
The problem here is compounded by the primitive nature of the Amish.
No way to communicate other than a visit in person which is no problem for me but will be problematic for the extension office people. My last talk with the Amishmen left me feeling like I need to be around 24-7 or they might just spray without me knowing.
He is off label with his use, barely understands how to mix properly.
More is better right, or so he thinks. My hope now rests with the extension office.
Maybe they can make things more understandable for him.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

...since there are 50 hives at risk here (even at $200/hive that is $10k), and since you are not confident that things will be solved properly, I'd take some extra precautions. I'd setup a survelance camera (on your own property) that will catch the spraying if it occurs. Since the extension office is already involved, you may have some recourse if your bees die and you can document that spraying occured after they were alerted to the situation...perhpas from the USDA, perhaps from the neighbor.

No one wants to have a fight or a lawsuit with a neighbor....but what would it cost you to replace the bees and any contaminated combs? This is not chump change (and if you are breeding your own, this is your valuable stock). I'm sure this is not the first time the extension office has dealt with Amish farmers on such an issue, they should know how to procede..but you've got to document things. I'd also call back the Bayer rep you talked to and ask why they didn't point out that this was far off label use.

No matter how "primitive", anyone who owns a farm understands a $10k judgement for damages.

Best of luck...not a good situation to be in, but unavoidable.

deknow


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

Squash bugs are sucking insects too, not chewing. They can transmit viruses as well which is why people control them as well as the fruit being scarred where they feed on it when small or if babies are aggregating and feeding in the same area. The active ingredient is very stable and persists a long time so it's probably the worst thing to be spraying around bees. I would think you could try open feeding for a few days to get most of your foragers to not go to the pumpkins except ones looking for pollen will go to them.


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## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

Wow sevin!! most bees don't make it off the plant let alone back to the hive. :ws:

If you could only pick your neighbor!:lookout:


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## TIMER (Apr 17, 2011)

deknow said:


> ...since there are 50 hives at risk here (even at $200/hive that is $10k)
> 
> deknow


Well since there are from 2-6 nearly full supers on most of these hives I quoted $30 to $35k for complete replacement and that doesn't account for my mating nucs or breeder queens
I think that may have gotten his attention.
The extension service expert is willing to make the 2 hour drive in order to try and enlighten the Amish.
They seem very willing to try to bridge the gap here.
He wants to recommend Assail for squash bug control, they claim if sprayed late evening and dried overnight it won't harm the bees.
Anyone have experience with this product?
I will try to find more info online. Thanks for all the responses Beesource folks:thumbsup:


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

TIMER said:


> He wants to recommend Assail for squash bug control, they claim if sprayed late evening and dried overnight it won't harm the bees.
> Anyone have experience with this product?


No experience, I am an organic gardener and previously organic farmer. However the MSDS for Assail states the following:



> ENVIRONMENTAL HAZARDS
> This product is toxic to wildlife. This product is toxic
> to bees exposed to direct treatment. Do not apply this
> product while bees are actively visiting the treated area.


Again, not having any experience with this particular poison, I would at least heed the warning and confine the bees for the day that the farmer is spraying. 

Wayne


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## Nantom670 (Jul 29, 2011)

I have been reading this post and others like it and it seems that so far there is no evidence that the neighbor is not acting lawfully. Some seem to imply that just because one has bees that all their neighbors have to stop what they are doing and yield to the bees. Sound like a segment of society that knows what best for everybody else and that is to do it their way. My property is my property and I don't ask permission from my neighbors what I can lawfully grow or do to it. If I raised a herd of cows and you had good growing grass could I let them out to eat your grass and bushes? No, some would be crying get the gun and shoot them all. But when it comes to some peoples bees they see it differently. I am sure some will get upset, but that's life.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

Err, the neighbor IS breaking the law. One cannot violate the label instructions on pesticides and still be using it legally. This pesticide has a label that does not allow it to be used where bees are actively foraging. This is being applied to open blooms (irresponsible and illegal...and deadly to bees and other pollinators ). There is no grey area here in this case.....the neighbor is clearly violating the law. You do not have the right to use regulated pesticides contrary to the label instructions.....period.

Deknow


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

Deknow is correct. This is direct violation of the law. 
Frequently the law is broken when people apply pesticide because they don't follow the label. But when that application has a direct impact on another person's property the Law is there to protect them.


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## TIMER (Apr 17, 2011)

Nantom670 said:


> I have been reading this post and others like it and it seems that so far there is no evidence that the neighbor is not acting lawfully. Some seem to imply that just because one has bees that all their neighbors have to stop what they are doing and yield to the bees. Sound like a segment of society that knows what best for everybody else and that is to do it their way. My property is my property and I don't ask permission from my neighbors what I can lawfully grow or do to it. If I raised a herd of cows and you had good growing grass could I let them out to eat your grass and bushes? No, some would be crying get the gun and shoot them all. But when it comes to some peoples bees they see it differently. I am sure some will get upset, but that's life.


Well I'll tell you right off, I am a strong supporter of private property rights. However, if you knowingly do somthing that causes physical or financial damage to others you should expect some consequenses legal or otherwise.:no: Your analogy is also flawed, with no pollenation there would be no pumpkins, if your cattle came to eat my grass and left t-bone steaks and milk I surely would not want to shoot them.:scratch: 

I've done some more resaerch on Assail, it is a neonic-systemic pesticide. The UPI company sells it with a slightly different label than what the label from DuPont is. I'm not sure why.
Does'nt seem like this is the answer we are looking for.


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## Beregondo (Jun 21, 2011)

While not an immediate, short term solution, perhaps this would avoid a repeat of the issue next year:




A quick search for a source found many, here is one: praying mantis


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## Skinner Apiaries (Sep 1, 2009)

oh hippies. stop presuming that everything is as simple as the most expensive solution. Sevin is dirt cheap.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

...dirt cheap is what consumers and wholesalers pay forpumpkins that haven't been adequately pollinated.

Deknow


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## ryan (Apr 3, 2010)

States I have had bees in require 24-48 hours notice before they spray a crop with something that harms bees. Legal issues, applicator licenses, alternate chemicals, and the methods of spraying can all be argued. You could force them to jump through the hoops, but at the end of the day the crop will get sprayed. Once you know about it, it's your problem. Move them out and then move them back. It is definitly the down side of owning bees. Working with them is best and can benefit both sides. 

I would HIGHLY consider moving them no matter what chemical is used. Don't count on the ag extension office to come up with a safe solution. Many tests are done on adult bees, no regard for young bees, brood, or queens. Sub-leathal exposure can cause you to pour time and money into underperforming hives for months. The expensive part is the time, feeds, meds, and shipping paid out for hives that get sick and take 3,4,5 months to die. 

Move them if their health is vital to you. I'm in a very heavily farmed area in the summer and there is no safe place to go. So I never move them. Several years ago, I told the guy who runs the spray airplane to stop calling me to give notice, "just go spray". I lose some bees, but I don't lose sleep worrying about what I can't control. You might leave a few hives and see which is more expensive, moving bees or replacing a few hives. You never know what will happen. 

Good luck
ryan


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

a solution..."matador", but must check if it kills squash bugs
Matador (could be an sp) is toxic until it dries, leaves no residue, and is best sprayed at either late in the evening or early am. I am assuming he is using Sevin because it lasts on the plant for a few days catching the hatched ones later on...much like cygone.
Best of luck


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Yes, I agree with honeyshack

if they spray with Matador in the evening, little harm will be done by the next morning.
I have lots of experience with this in sunflowers

You can not really tell him not to spray. all your going to do is piss him off and the next time he will kill your bees all the same. the best thing to do is help him choose different sprays and work around his pest control program. might mean moving your yards or closing them up for a while.


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## Wil (Dec 21, 2009)

I know of over a dozen Amish that use extreme amounts of pesticides!!! In some area they use more then any other farmers as they are not health conscious anymore, they are about the money!!


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

no. its all about making a living. In todays market place, if the produce isnt perfect, it doesnt get bought


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## TWall (May 19, 2010)

The Amish do things to make money. They are not afraid to use fertilizer or pesticides. If they think a pesticide will help them make money they will use it. Like all farmers, some are better than others. Some worry more about protecting their crop/livestock than following labels. 

Most Amish only go to school through the eight grade. Understanding pesticide labels and calibrating application equipment may be a challenge for some. 

Amish does not equal organic.

Tom


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