# question on possible problem for new keeper



## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Welcome Lee -

It appears things are normal with your bees. They are cutting down on brood and filling those cells with pollen and honey. Looks like the substance you are seeing is pollen/bee bread. Others will chime in, but from my viewpoint, bees are fine in this department.

Regards,
Barry


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Your doing good Lee, the bees will probably see you in spring!


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## Dale Hodges (Jul 13, 2007)

Everything looked great to me, very normal hive getting ready for winter.


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## Lanier74 (Oct 19, 2007)

Hey,
Thanks for the information. Makes me feel a lot better now. Seems I picked a heck of a year to start with them with our weather but hopefully they will have enough storage to make it through the winter.
One final question on this- once they get the top brood box full with all 9 frames of stores along with what they have in the bottom brood chamber will that be enough for them for the winter or should I continue to feed them and add another super to the top.
Thanks


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

What do you mean final question? 
they never end, even for me,

I feed up to a cetain weight, up here being as much as you can back fill before they dont take anymore. I feed about 5 gallons of surip per hive for fall feeding pep,


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## spunky (Nov 14, 2006)

Lanier74 said:


> Hey,
> Thanks for the information. Makes me feel a lot better now. Seems I picked a heck of a year to start with them with our weather but hopefully they will have enough storage to make it through the winter.
> One final question on this- once they get the top brood box full with all 9 frames of stores along with what they have in the bottom brood chamber will that be enough for them for the winter or should I continue to feed them and add another super to the top.
> Thanks



I am new too. All 3 of my hives cut back on syrup consumption this week, and are packing some of the brood nest with pollen and syrup


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

*IMHO_You have overfed them out of house and home.*

Three gallons of syrup a week all summer? A second hive body filled with syrup? NC? do they need 100 lbs. of artificial stores in that climate? I disagree with those who said you did it right.
I have kept bees for over 37 years and have never fed a new colony more than two gallons of feed, total.
Bees are not like dogs or cats that you feed year around. The whole purpose of keeping bees is that they are self sufficient and make food for YOU.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

Hopefully we'll hear from some beeks in NC to get their comments. It's my understanding that the drought this summer in your area has been awful and many are right now scrambling to get enough feed into their colonies to survive the winter. Sounds like you are way ahead of the game. It is very unusual to be feeding that much syrup to your colonies, but this has been an unusual summer. 

You will not need a third box in your climate, two will be more than sufficient. Looks like they are doing a nice job of packing in pollen for winter brood too.


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

Hi, Lee....Welcome to beesource.

I am about 30 miles from you. I just sent you a PM.


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## Lanier74 (Oct 19, 2007)

Hey, again thanks for all the information. As for the bees being overfed, they have slowed considerablly this week on taking the syrup and I will probablly stop offering it now that they have nearly filled the second hive body. As for our weather, I am sure others in NC will agree that bees in our area have have a very hard time being able to hardly sustain themselves this year with our weather, both my pond and both creeks are dry and have been for over 2 months now and again I was very new and so I may have over fed them but they seem to be very healthy and full of bees so hopefully next year will be much better for us here.
Either way I was happy to help them and am enjoying them and hope to increse my hives next year to 3 or 4 so I am sure I will have more questions.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

For your first year, I'd say you've done pretty well. I do believe that you've probably over fed somewhat and you'll probably have a second deep mostly filled with feed next spring, which will be great for making an early split! I'd watch them closely early next spring to insure that they have room to expand. 

When new to beekeeping, its better to over feed than under feed. I've found (and other local beeks agree) that two deeps are probably not needed for our region. (I wish Idee would have posted his response for all of us east coasters to see, but that's OK.) I'm much closer to the ocean than you and hence probably have a warmer mean temp. I've been overwintering in single deeps the past two years with good success.


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

>When new to beekeeping, its better to over feed than under feed . . .

A very good comment, but also keep odfrank's comments in the "back of your mind", they too, will come in handy some day.


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

Astrobee, I sent him my phone number. A 45 minute call ensued. I can't type that much. If you want it, I'll send it to you.


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## Lanier74 (Oct 19, 2007)

Astrobee, Your suggestion on being prepared for an early split is great news as that is what I was hoping to do to gain one of my new hives for next year and after a 45 min. phone nconversation with iddee I also gained alot of information to help prepare me for that as well. I am looking forward to next spring to see what I can do with them.


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

astrobee sezs:
When new to beekeeping, its better to over feed than under feed. I've found (and other local beeks agree) that two deeps are probably not needed for our region.

tecumseh replies:
how often do you wonder when you hear a newbee complain about loosing a hive... cause 'some southern bee supplier' sold me sorry bees.. if the real cause was not lack of feed resources created thru a less than average year or a hive started just a bit too late? for certain there is an economic question when it comes down to how much to feed a hive. with package prices approaching a hundred dollar bill... I would suspect that just the direct replacement cost would buy a lot of sugar.

in much of the south overwintering is quite common in story and a half (weight and not size is the important criterion).

although I understand od frank's point of view... I would also suggest that od lives in a very special location which is unlikely duplicated as far as bee pasture in 98% of the us of a. so I would strongly suggest that no one use his 3 gallon maximum as a guiding rule of thumb. also as od suggested himself, he does have years and years of experience that tells him when to feed and when not to feed. it likely doesn't take 37 years to gain this instinct, but it is not acquired overnight either.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

iddee said:


> Astrobee, I sent him my phone number. A 45 minute call ensued. I can't type that much. If you want it, I'll send it to you.



Iddee,

I've followed your posts for a long time and really appreciate your insights and particularly since we're not all that far apart geographically. I was just hoping to squeeze that extra drop of goodness info out of this thread. Please don't go to the effort to write up your phone comments. 

Thanks.


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

I meant I would send you my phone number, not a complete essay.


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## beewhisper (Feb 17, 2007)

Hi Lee 
I have only been beekeeping a couple of years, but thought I would give you a reply.I am from up in Mcdowell County.First as you may know by now everyone has a different opinion.Everyone in my bee club preaches feed,feed,feed.I belive you should feed some but what is that supper that you leave on for the winter for?Last winter I fead my bees all winter.They filled the hive up with syrp.Come spring they swarmed twice.Probably because they didn't have any room.Something to think about.
 Beewhisper


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Three gallons of feed is nothing. 
During my two week summer dirth, I feed once, 2.5 gallons/hive, to keep my hives going from the dandilion to the clover. That extra punch of food sends them flying into the flow.
Then, in the fall, I make that feed round twice, 5 gallon/hive. Gets them up to 180or so lbs/hive for winter. Up here I need that much, probably not down there. But thinking three gallons probably isnt overdoing it. Your not going to fill a deep with three gallons. I push 5 gallons into my singles.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Ian said:


> I feed once, 2.5 gallons/hive, feed round twice, 5 gallon/hive. Gets them up to 180or so lbs/hive for winter. /QUOTE]
> 
> How many more pounds/gallons of honey do your hives produce than sugar fed? How do the economics work out? Value of honey produced versus sugar fed?


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

od frank ask:
How many more pounds/gallons of honey do your hives produce than sugar fed? How do the economics work out? Value of honey produced versus sugar fed?

tecumseh suggest:
there would be a bit more to it than that od frank, although certainly gained/lost honey production or increased pollination fees might be a small part. to do this throughly you would construct a partial budget (I think that is the proper term) where you would place what is gained and what is lost on two sides of a ledger and see what the tabulation tell ya'.

with 3 pound packages costing $100 this alone would suggest that you can feed a lot of $.40 sugar (about 250 pounds if my not so new math still works) just to keep from replacing the hive.

but don't get my drift wrong od frank I am not suggesting everyone go out there and dump 250 pounds of sugar in each and every hive they have.... certainly the idea should be to get a hive up to some self sustaining size and see what they can do. 

as a more direct response to your question about added honey I can tell you this... the last four years prior to this year Texas had an ongoing drough and not so much unlike what the folks on the east coast are now experiencing. during this time I made a small crop while others made nothing. I attribute a lot of this to the fact that I am very proactive about feeding my bees in the winter and not just sittin' there watchin' em' die.

I would find it interesting to find out how much Ian thinks the stimulative feeding encourages honey production????


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

I cant answer that, because so many other factors influence my hive production. But you have to realize I am working on a high hive honey potential. I will average 175-200lbs per season. This year the flow stopped early, and left me with 155lbs/hive. I didnt get my fall flow.

Stimulative feeding does keep that queen going, But I also think a hive will work and respond better with an abundance of feed at hand. With the mid spring feeding I do keep that queen going, but I also bulk the hive up with resources, so the hive has to pack the brood chambers with less honey, getting to the supers quicker. And up here, the quicker you have the bees in shape, the heavier the honey crop you will get. The clover and canola are my bread and butter, they come early, and sometimes short. I work my hives so they are ready to go mid June, and by middle of July, I am in the midst of taking off 100lbs plus of white honey. Sunflowers, 2nd cut alfalfa, and buckwheat all come in August, not hard to utilize having the hives just comming off the canola fields.

So I project feeding 20-25$ of feed to my hives every year(spring and fall feeding), helps me produce a 200 lbs honey crop. My dollar is worth the same as yours now, so thats 200$ gross on a 1$/lbs market( if it get there again ). I'll through another 30-40$ operating costs at the hives, and I have losts to work around.

Feeds cheap, keep those hives full and they will jump at oncomming flows.


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

nice explanation Ian..

I would have assumed your flow is significant and of short duration which means either the bees are in condition to catch you a crop or they don't. the latter works out to mean lost opportunity and lost income...

some years back I ran a few cattle in the state next door and I had a cow person (why are all the very best cattle men women?) tell me... 'it hard to starve a profit into them cows.' of course cows and cattle are quite different but I do think the thinking holds to some degree.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

**** straight!


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