# What should I Mix with Dutch



## BGhoney (Sep 26, 2007)

I had an Acre of Crimson clover I planted for the bees. 4 years old, doing good but honey bees didn't care for it much. Bumble bees loved it, I've since sprayed it and tilled it under.

I was planing on planting dutch clover, and mow it off after the bloom a couple of times a year. I think I can get at least 3 blooms when mowed.

Is there anything that would be good to put in with dutch or will it just get choked out by the dutch. Not a fan of the taste of buckwheat.

I was going to till 2 or 3 times between now and spring, to mix up and kill seeds in the soil. Its nice soil now, with nothing sprouting yet, would I be better off, planting my dutch now and giving it a winter to set, We wont get frost till the middle of october.


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## spieker (Jun 26, 2009)

The above post could have been written by me. My bees ignored my crimson clover. I am strongly considering planting dutch clover instead. However, I had noticed that my bees basically ignored my neighbors dutch clover that was mixed in with their grass.

Recently, I read something about the amount of nectar being produced being tied in with the PH of the soil. Supposely, clover in acid soil does not produce nectar. So, I plan on using lots of lime next year, as my soil is acid. 

Would anyone know if the PH of the soil affects the clover's ability to produce nectar as that could be why BGhoney and myself had problems with our bees not working the crimson clover? Or do bees just not like crimson clover?


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## kwest (May 16, 2009)

have you thought about trying sainfoin. it is supposed to be really good. i planted about an acer mid summer and it came up nicely but about the time it started blooming we got frost. so i will know more next summer. i have read that you can put alot of bees on it per acer when its blooming. i do know that the few blooms i had the bees did work it.


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## beedeetee (Nov 27, 2004)

Each year I take a quarter of my garden area and plant crimson clover in early spring. When it finishes its bloom around July I plant buckwheat to bloom into fall.

My soil is acid and I have to lime my garden each year or everything is stunted. The bees do work the clover though. It is possible that they do because of the lime.


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## swabby (Jun 6, 2008)

Crimson clover, Trifolium incarnatum http://entomology.ifas.ufl.edu/mcsorley/agroecology/Crimpson clover.htm



If this is the crimpson type the honey bee has a hard time worrking it because of to length of the flower.

White dutch is a good clover for the bees here in early spring ,however the heat knocks it completely back. Also it is very costly for the seed. I am planting some more clover this year just have not figured out witch one yet. 

I don't plant any thing with mine and I plant in the fall so it has all winter to get a lot of moisture for spring blooming. Good luck and God bless.


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## BGhoney (Sep 26, 2007)

Thanks for the input, yes I have read the the bloom is to long for honey bees to get into crimson. I just got back from the feed store and picked up 2 , 2lb bags of dutch , it was 12.99 each, not cheap but not bad. Really small seeds.

I figured with my mowing plan it would be hard to get anything else in there, maybe some vetch, I have that around now, so It will be ok. The clover package says to plant when you get consistant rains, so I'll wait till first of october.


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## spieker (Jun 26, 2009)

I appreciated hearing about sainfoin. I have researched it and now plan on growing some next summer. One website said sainfoin is thought to yield more honey than any other temperate plant. Honey is very clear and mixes well with honey from other sources.

Since my soil has an acid PH, I will have to use lime, but I was going to with clover anyway.


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## greengecko (Dec 16, 2008)

Late last winter I frost seeded several acres with Dutch Clover with good results. Frost seeding should be done in late winter when warm daytime temperatures alternate with freezing nights. The freeze-and-thaw action helps broadcast seeds get into the soil. When temperatures become warm enough, the seed will germinate in the soil.


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## brooksbeefarm (Apr 13, 2008)

Although it gets taller than dutch clover my bees work the lidino(sp?) clover.I've had good results with both fall and spring planting but prefer the spring planting because we have a little black cricket by the thousands in the fall some years and they love the tender leaves of the newly germinated clover, and of course kills it. Jack


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

I don't think I'd try to mix anything with the dutch, but I might try to find something to plant that would bloom after the clover is done. I have no clue what that might be though, unfortunately.


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## Ron Mann (Jul 17, 2009)

Wouldn't you need something like Blue Grass to hold the soil during the clover's summer dormancy?

Here in the mountains of East Tennessee, White Dutch and Blue Grass go hand in hand.


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## DRUR (May 24, 2009)

From late 70s through mid 80s I had about 7 acres of *crimson clover* with roadways nearby also planted in it. It was always a good dependable nectar source, but short lived usually about 3 weeks. Pollen collected will turn many frames blood red (beautiful to see). I am in the central part of east Texas. 

*White Dutch* also produces here but not dependable, because it usually is in full bloom in March and in a normal year we have rain that time of year 10-12 days of the month. 

*Hubam clover* is probably the best honey plant, but does better on heavy clay/loam (red or black) soils. Will bloom early to middle of May through early June. 

*Hairy vetch* also produces well, but the honey seems more prone to crystalization. It usually starts blooming the tail end of the *crimsons clover *bloom (end of April) and blooms into the early part of May. 

A good combination might be *white dutch*, *crimson*, *hairy vetch*, and *Hubam clover*. 

*Yellow sweet clover *also will produce here but will usually bloom only in the 2nd year. *Yellow sweet *should start the early part of May (preceeding *Hubam* by 2-3 weeks) and overlap the *Hubam* (which is a white sweet clover). I have no experience with the *Yellow sweet*, my input is just what I have read. I have read though if you plant *yellow sweet* in the fall early enough for good growth it will produce the next spring, the fall serving as the 1st year and next spring as the 2nd. But, note I have no personal experience with the *yellow Sweet*.


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## dixie_beek (Aug 4, 2009)

I just bought 10 lbs. of Ball Clover to plant on 2 acres. Did I screw up? I read somewhere that honey bees like this stuff better than Dutch and it supposedly stays in bloom from early spring to early summer in my neck of the woods. It is also supposed to have many more blooms per square yard than Dutch. What'a ya think?


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## DRUR (May 24, 2009)

dixie_beek said:


> I just bought 10 lbs. of Ball Clover to plant on 2 acres. Did I screw up? I read somewhere that honey bees like this stuff better than Dutch and it supposedly stays in bloom from early spring to early summer in my neck of the woods.


Talked to a beek that pollenated ball clover earlier this year in North Texas. They had a late freeze and unusually cold spring. He didn't make anything off of the ball clover, but he stated it could have been because of the weather. I have also previously read (from Farlie's web site) that ball is good for bees, but Farley is probably the largest producer and have a financial interest in seeing that it is sold. 

Farlie's site is the only place I have found that it is good for bees. But, *that being said*, it was Farley who referenced the bad experience of the beek. Farley was honest about this and it was probably just an off year. Country folks in Texas usually have integrity, because here in Texas a man's word is his bond (or at least used to be); and if I was a betting man (which I am not) I would bet this is the case with Farley (I would bet for integrity). There simply is not enough information to make a well informed decision at this time.


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## Countryboy (Feb 15, 2009)

You might want to look at birdsfoot trefoil. It doesn't tolerate competition very well when it is freshly seeded, so you may have ot seed it first, allow it to establish, and then plant white dutch in with it. If you plant trefoil with the white dutch, you run the risk of the clover choking out the trefoil.


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

Birds foot trefoil, makes great honey. We place hives on a field for pollination. It is slightly finicky to grow. If you have a few acres and can harvest the seed, there is good $ in the seed production , a bit time consuming with drying down the seed


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## BGhoney (Sep 26, 2007)

I rototilled under my field yesterday, had a few weeds popping up. Planted my dutch clover, rains are coming tomorrow so it should get good contact. We have tree foil around here not sure if its the same kind, ours makes the bees very grumpy when they are collecting from it. Not sure if I want to plant it on purpose. I planted vetch a few years back, its pretty hard to kill so I figure some will make it back with the dutch. I bought a ph tester but it dosn't seem to register anything, I'll check it again later and look into lime.

Thanks for the input


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