# tips on mixing 2:1 sugar water



## Panhandle Scott (Jul 11, 2009)

This will sound stupid but you did heat the water beforehand in order to dissolve the sugar......


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## rkr (Oct 30, 2008)

Heat your water to a rolling boil before you add the sugar and stir stir stir!!

I sometimes use a low heat to get it all to disovle after I add the last bag of sugar, but *make sure* not to boil it again that can be bad for the bees!!!

Give that a try!

RKR


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## bigevilgrape (Aug 21, 2008)

I use a stick blender (aka immersion blender) much easier then siring.


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## Andrew Dewey (Aug 23, 2005)

I moved my syrup making operations out to the garage before my wife forbid me from doing anything in the house bee related ever again. That was a very smart move as she has proven very effective at selling honey to her co-workers. $20/qt works for me. Anyway, here's how I make 2:1 syrup.

In a 30 gallon Rubbermaid type trash can - I put 5 gallons of water and heat the water until steaming using an immersion heater. Then I add 3 25lb bags of sugar, stirring with a canoe paddle after each bag until the sugar is dissolved. Then I add one 10lb bag (85lb total) and stir that in.

Next I use a hand "bilge" pump to transfer the syrup from the trash can to 5 gallon totes. 5 gallons of water and 85 pounds of sugar yields a bit over 10 gallons of syrup. I let the syrup cool in the totes before feeding it to the bees.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

I don't boil the water. 

I keep a lid on except to stir to avoid evaporation. 

Stir from time to time. 

Heat until it goes clear. 

Don't boil the syrup.


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## Tara (Jun 17, 2010)

I'm a little confused....

For normal sugar syrup you make sure NOT to boil because its bad for the bees.

But if you're making inverted syrup, which some say is better for the bees, you boil it for about 20 min.

Is that right? Why is boiling in one case bad, while in the other case its good? I thought it was because of carmalization, but that dosn't happen if you stir fairly often. 

Please explain!


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

I avoid boiling to limit evaporation. 

I'm sure that most "2:1" syrup is more dense than people would believe. 

Inverted syrup is not as good for the bees as plain.


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## rkr (Oct 30, 2008)

Tara said:


> I'm a little confused....
> 
> For normal sugar syrup you make sure NOT to boil because its bad for the bees.


I boil the water before I add the sugar. I do not boil it after I add the sugar. 

The thing you want to avoid is burning or caramelizing the sugar, that’s what is bad for the bees.

If you read the candy board recipies you will note that you heat the sugar to 220-232 degrees F 

 a link to candy chart 

 Megabee candy board instructions

And yes if you boil the water you have to be right on top of it or you will loose some of your volume of water to steam like BeeCurious stated. 

So in short,your correct, caramelized sugar is bad for your bees.

RKR


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I've never been able to dissolve 2:1 without boiling the water first.


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## Duboisi (Oct 7, 2009)

I put the sugar in a container, and add boiling water. Then I stir a little, and let it stay for 10 minutes or so before stirring a little more.

I use 5:3, which is slightly denser, so it should work fine for 2:1,


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

Michael Bush said:


> I've never been able to dissolve 2:1 without boiling the water first.



Same here...

I suspect that people using tap water have their water heaters set very, very high and they end up with a sugar suspension. At least while stirring. 



> Duboisi *Re: tips on mixing 2:1 sugar water*
> I put the sugar in a container, and add boiling water. Then I stir a little, and let it stay for 10 minutes or so before stirring a little more.
> 
> I use 5:3, which is slightly denser, so it should work fine for 2:1,


5:3 is less dense than 2:1 

5/8=.625 5:3
2/3=.666 2:1





> Andrew Dewey *Re: tips on mixing 2:1 sugar water*
> Anyway, here's how I make 2:1 syrup.
> 
> I put 5 gallons of water and heat the water until steaming using an immersion heater. Then I add 3 25lb bags of sugar, stirring with a canoe paddle after each bag until the sugar is dissolved. Then I add one 10lb bag (85lb total) and stir that in.
> ...


Andrew,

You seem to be making 2.125:1 syrup... 

Unless my math is off you should add just 5# of sugar to have a total of 80 pounds. Why wouldn't you add the extra sugar at the beginning?


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## Duboisi (Oct 7, 2009)

BeeCurious said:


> 5:3 is less dense than 2:1


Wonder how I came out with the opposite conclution. Guess I need to hone my math-skills.

Thanks for the correction.


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## Thermwood (May 29, 2010)

If you are going to get that technical about the amounts then use the correct weight for the water also, 8.34 pounds per gallon. LOL


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

Thermwood said:


> If you are going to get that technical about the amounts then use the correct weight for the water also, 8.34 pounds per gallon. LOL





With 2 pounds of sugar, and 1 pint of water I believe the resulting volume is approximately 18.5 liquid ounces. 

When I mix a batch of 2:1 with 25 pounds of sugar, I wanted to have a reasonable idea of the resulting volume in the event I wanted to include any additive such as vinegar. 

My best guesstimate is 3.6 gallons....

hehehehehe

I suspect the metric system is more accurate, and there probably isn't any misleading rhyme either...


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## Michael B (Feb 6, 2010)

I don't to confuse anyone further but I never had a problem with 2:1.

I use volume instead of weight. For my six hives I add 1 gallon of water to a large pot and heat it just at or just below a boil. Remove it from heat and add 2 gallons of sugar. Stir for about a minute.................DONE!

To measure I use a 1 gallon iced tea container.

This is enough to last me about 5 days.

I just started to use Vitafeed green. I have two mason jar feeder per hive in a empty super. One with Vitafeed and one without. I want to see which the bees perfer. I like to idea of adding acidity to the water. Between high pH of tap water and near neutral pH of sugar I believe it will be a bit easier on the bees to manage.

Mike


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## rkr (Oct 30, 2008)

Now, I do not use an extremely scientific method to mix syrup. I use a gallon milk jug and 4 lb bags of sugar.
So for every gallon you get 4-4lb bags for heavy syrup and 2-4lb bags for light syrup. Not exact but darn close.

I just got a new refractometer and I did a check of that mixture. It tested at 26% moister on the nose. That means the bees have to evaporate 8% off of it to get it down to the right moister to cap and keep over the winter.

Does 26% sound right to those who have run the same test?
I have some calibrating fluid and have not done it yet. The friend who's instrument I was using still has my vial.

RKR


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## Andrew Dewey (Aug 23, 2005)

@beecurious - I've never had the bees make a comment about the percentage of sugar in their syrup. When I have to buy 10lb bags (like today) I use 8 of them. As for why the smallest bag goes in last - it is easier to mix in 1 10lb bag than a 25lb bag as the final one.


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## StevenG (Mar 27, 2009)

I followed another beek's advice (sorry I can't recall who it was! he's a genius) and bought a Harbor Freight industrial type mixer, bolted and duct-taped it to the top of a 40 gallon tank. The first time I measured in 14 gallons of water, (pure hot out of the hot water tank), marked the side with a magic marker. Turned the mixer on, and slowly poured in 224 pounds of sugar. Voila! 30 gallons of 2:1 syrup. Mixed it thoroughly, and a week later it was allllll gone. Mixed up another batch this past weekend. All I had to do was run the hose from the hot water, fill to the mark, turn on the mixer, and add sugar. Man I love that new setup I have!
Regards,
Steven


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## Pugs (Jul 15, 2004)

I use a paint mixer on a hand drill. The old metal mixers, not the new plastic bladed ones (I don't know if they work).

I've been doing what Brother Adam said in his book "Bee-keeping at Buckfast Abbey" page 32: "The important thing is not to allow the sugar to settle to the bottom, from where it will be difficult to raise as it tends to form a dense paste. At the expiry of fifteen minutes, the syrup will still be cloudy but is nevertheless ready for use. If left to stand for an hour it will turn perfectly clear, exactly as if it had been boiled." 

He said they used 2 pounds of sugar to 1 pint of cold water. They had a special tank built with a 16 inch wide scraper built in to agitate the syrup. The add the sugar to the water while mixing. I find it easier to add the water to the sugar then start in with the paint mixer.

So I use hot tap water, and the paint mixer for 15 minutes, so far there have been no problems and all the sugar dissolves.

Pugs


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## HVH (Feb 20, 2008)

Every beekeeper will have a different method with many leading to approximately 2:1 syrup. I fill any container 44% full with water and top up with sugar. This would require about 0.44 gallons of water plus 7.34 lbs of sugar to make one gallon of 2:1 syrup. I like this method because any container can be filled with 44% water and sugar added without any need to measure. I use a 55 gallon drum and fill it below the half way point (estimating about 44%) with water and top up with sugar. This may not sound like 2:1 but people often confuse percent by volume with percent by weight. If 0.44 gallons of water weighs about 3.67 lbs then one would use two times as much sugar or 7.34 lbs. That means that 3.67 lbs of water (0.44 gallons) plus 7.34 lbs of sugar makes a 2:1 syrup by weight. If you measure the resulting volume it is 1 gallon.


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## Dancing Bee Apiary (Jan 5, 2010)

Yes, I do the same as above. Fill a barrel just below half way with water, top with sugar, and use a canoe paddle to mix it up.


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

I put in 16 quarts of sugar and add 8 quarts of boiling water a spritz of lemon juice and use a drill mixer. It works just fine. Pick one up at harbor freight or HD or somewhere. Why use your energy when you have power tools.

http://www.nextag.com/mixer-drill/stores-html
http://www.harborfreight.com/all-purpose-mixer-41015.html


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## Seymore (May 1, 2009)

I was using a Pyrex measuring bowl (8 cup) and though I only have 2 hives and don't need large scale, it seemed to be taking forever. Then I remembered my electric tea maker. The kind WalMart sells and usually comes with two plastic pitchers. Makes about 3 quarts of tea.... BUT pretty quickly makes 1 gallon of syrup! I just fill the water reservoir up, start it to brewing, add 10.5 cups of sugar into the carafe, stirring after every few additions. Tea maker spits out hot water, stir, stir, stir, pour into a 1-gallon jug, fill to the top, and that makes 1 gallon of 1:1 bee hungries! No boiling and done pretty quickly.


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## RiodeLobo (Oct 11, 2010)

Pardon my ignorance.

Why is it ok to heat candy board sugar to 220 but is not ok to boil syrup?

It seams to me if you heat candy board that hot it will also caramelize, is that incorrect?

Thanks
Dan


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

RiodeLobo said:


> Why is it ok to heat candy board sugar to 220 but is not ok to boil syrup?
> 
> It seams to me if you heat candy board that hot it will also caramelize, is that incorrect?


"If you heat a sugar syrup to temperatures higher than any of the candy stages, you will be on your way to creating caramelized sugar" 

... which is at about 330 degrees F unless the sugar was allowed to settle on the bottom of the pot while heating. The sugar will scorch/burn/caramelize on the bottom where the temperature higher with there being a lack of liquid. 

The "Candy Chart" may help answer some questions.




> It seams to me if you heat candy board that hot it will also caramelize, is that incorrect?


"Candy" temperatures are below the caramel temperatures


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## scdw43 (Aug 14, 2008)

Bring to a boil 1 gal of water add 16 lbs of sugar. I add three and a quarter gallons (13 qts) of water to a fifty pound bag. If you add more sugar than this, it will sometimes come back out of solution in cold weather, if the bees have not taken all of the syrup out of the feeder.


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## ccar2000 (Aug 9, 2009)

Currently I am using a one gallon jar with five pounds of sugar and adding hot water until it is full. I am not sure what ratio I am ending up with but would like to know how much sugar I should use to make close to 5:3 in the same vessel/process. I don't have the need for a five gallon batch.


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## Mabe (Mar 22, 2005)

I've used most techniques, but the easiest is this for smaller quantities...

10lbs sugar/5-6pints water
5lbs sugar/2 1/2-3pints water

1. In a large stockpot bring your water to a boil. 

2. When the water is in a rolling boil, add your sugar, stirring as you
pour it in.

3. Turn off the heat.

4. Give it one more quick stir and then put the lid on the pot.

5. Go to bed.

In the morning, the solution will be crystal clear and cooled enough to mix in additives, if you wish to do so, and feed.


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## Mabe (Mar 22, 2005)

To make up about a gallon (128oz) of* 2:1* solution: 
6.5 lbs sugar/6.5 cups (8oz) water

To make up a gallon (128oz) of* 1:1* solution:
4.5 lbs sugar/4.5 pints (16oz) water 



Notes...

1 pound of sugar in solution adds about 12 ounces of volume
Make more than you think you need - sugar solution lasts almost forever if you seal your glass container while the syrup is still very hot


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## ccar2000 (Aug 9, 2009)

So,
a 1gal jar holds 128oz/16pints
5# sugar adds 60oz volume
That leaves room for 68oz/4.25pints water
5:4.25=1.17:1 ratio?

What a mess.That's too much for me to figure out.
If I want to get @ 5:3 syrup I guess I had better just add my 5# of sugar to the jar and put in 3pints of water and forget about trying to make a full gallon jar. Or, just increase the recipe and go with bigger batches like the others recommend.


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## PCM (Sep 18, 2007)

ccar2000 said:


> So,
> a 1gal jar holds 128oz/16pints
> 5# sugar adds 60oz volume
> That leaves room for 68oz/4.25pints water
> ...


I believe a gallon equals 8 pints Not 16 pints !! :doh:

REMEMBER the old beekeeping saying in regard to water & sugar;

A pint's a pound the world around !!

Every body on here seems to try to make a simple thing so complicated !! :scratch:

PCM


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

> 5# sugar adds 60oz volume


I don't think so...


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

http://bushfarms.com/beesfeeding.htm#resultingamountofsyrup

I'd say five pounds adds about 40 ounces of volume and 80 ounces of weight.


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## PCM (Sep 18, 2007)

BeeCurious
& 
Michael Bush

It must be THE NEW MATH, we don't understand !!

PCM


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## ccar2000 (Aug 9, 2009)

I am sorry that I am so confused but I would like help to be set straight on my current formula.:lookout:

A 1gal jar holds 128oz/8pints
5# sugar adds 40oz volume
That leaves room for 88oz/5.5pints water

5:5.5=1:0.9 ratio?
If so, then that is way too light

A 1gal jar holds 128oz/8pints
10# sugar adds 80oz volume
That leaves room for 48oz/3.0pints water
10:3=1:3.3 ratio?

A 1gal jar holds 128oz/8pints
7# sugar adds 60oz volume
That leaves room for 68oz/4.25pints water
7:4.25=1:1.65 ratio?

Is my calculation just way out of whack?

How about this?
5# sugar:3.0pints water
80oz sugar:48oz water
equals 128oz syrup?


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## Merlyn Votaw (Jun 23, 2008)

T only thing I use is hot tap water and a paint mixer with a elec drill. I might have a tablespoon in the bottom that isn't disolved but that is only sence I have been useing cheaper sugar.Nothing with table sugar


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

ccar2000,

How about forgetting about limiting yourself to using a gallon jar...

From my estimates, guesstimates, and sometimes careful kitchen measurements I've concluded that when making 2:1 the resulting volume (in pints) is 1.078 times the number of pounds of sugar used. 

Put another way...

One pound of sugar plus 8 oz of water will give you approximately 17 liquid ounces of syrup.

To limit yourself to a gallon jar HVH gave a figure of 7.34 lbs of sugar... my guesstimate would be 7.42lbs

Why not skip the math and just put 5 pints of water in a pot and stir 10# of sugar into it? Won't you need the "extra" 2.7 pints of syrup in a few days?


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## Mabe (Mar 22, 2005)

Oh, Dearies...

The confusion I believe is that some are thinking volumes and weights are the same. We all know that a 16 ounce container doesn't weigh 16 ounces with honey in it. And dry sugar doesn't take up as much space in solution as it did in the measuring cup.

So Grandma Mabe has just gone down to her kitchen and made up a 5:3 solution of syrup and poured it into a gallon glass jug. The margin of error here is a pinch of this and a blop of that for you perfectionists, but I want this to be very easy to do.

*Recipe for a 5:3 solution of syrup that fits nicely in a gallon jug:*
6 lbs sugar/3 1/2 pints water


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## plaztikjezuz (Apr 22, 2010)

I have 2 hives right now. i think i will loose one for sure this winter.
but i make my 2:1 on the stove, this spring i plan on expanding to 5-6 hives and will move to making it in a bucket then.

but i use 10 lb of sugar to 2 qts of boiling water, this comes out to equal 5 quarts for my feeders. i am feeding one hive more then the other, hedging the bet sort to say.

edit: i forgot to say that i also add a pinch of sea salt and i use chamomile & lemon thyme. bees seem to like it.


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## Peter NuBee (Nov 8, 2010)

Tara could you please post the web sites for the candy chart and Megabee candy board again. For some reason the sites won't open properly.
Thanks,
Peter NuBee


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## Peter NuBee (Nov 8, 2010)

Tara,
Could you please post the web sites for the candy chart and Mega candy board again? They won't open properly

Thanks,

Peter NuBee


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

Peter NuBee said:


> Tara,
> Could you please post the web sites for the candy chart and Mega candy board again? They won't open properly
> 
> Thanks,
> ...


Check post #9 or 26


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## Beethinking (Jun 2, 2008)

I fill up the container with the appropriate amount of sugar, and then I turn on the tap as hot as it will go (until it is painful to touch!) and then begin filling the container with water while stirring. This has worked fine for me for 2/1 and 1/1 sugar.

Matt


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## Peter NuBee (Nov 8, 2010)

As of now I have two brood boxes on my hive.
The top box is half drawn out, half full of bees, and half full of sugar water.
I want to put a candy board on top of the second brood box to supplement winter feeding.
My questions are as follows;
I know the bees don't want to break cluster in cold weather. Does this mean the bees in the bottom brood box will not travel to the candy board on top of the second brood box in order to eat?
If not should I remove the frames from the second brood chamber that are not drawn out and make a space in middle of the brood box to put a sugar feeder to accomodate the first brood chamber? As well as leave the candy board on top of the second brood box to accomodate those bees? That way all the bases will be covered.


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## jhs494 (May 6, 2009)

I use hot tap water as hot as it gets, and pour it into the jar, then add the suger to the water. Put the lid on tight and shake it till it dissovles. usually needs to be shaken twice for the two to one mix. Seems to be working well.


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## HVH (Feb 20, 2008)

ccar2000 said:


> So,
> a 1gal jar holds 128oz/16pints
> 5# sugar adds 60oz volume
> That leaves room for 68oz/4.25pints water
> ...


If my math is correct 5:3 is about 62.5% sugar by weight. If 2:1 is about 67% by weight and 7.2 lbs of sugar to 0.44 gallons of water makes 1 gallon of 2:1 then just add a little more water and a little bit less of sugar and you will be close enough. I come up with about 6.75 lbs of sugar to 0.47 gallons of water to make 1 gallon of 5:3. 
If you are after perfection use a refractometer or a volumetric flask. Table sugar comes in different crystal sizes and therefore takes up different volumes for the same weight. The rough numbers above are good enough for me but a more accurate approach would require a refractometer or volumetric flask. A graduated cylinder would be OK but not as accurate as a volumetric flask. Either way, the bees don't care.


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## ccar2000 (Aug 9, 2009)

Thanks HVH, etal,
I guess the refractometer would be the best way to be certain. I am not really trying to be exact inasmuch as I was trying to figure out what ratio I am getting by splitting the 10# sack into two one gallon jars and filling them with hot water and if that was too lean of a mix. You are right about the bees not caring since they suck it up anyways. Thanks for the 6.75 lbs of sugar to 0.47 gallons of water to make 1 gallon of 5:3 recipe


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## HVH (Feb 20, 2008)

By my rough calculations 5 pounds of sugar would be equivalent to .39 gallons of sucrose. That leaves 0.61 gallons of water which weighs about 8.34 X 0.61 = 5.087 lbs. It is kind of looking like 1:1.


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## Kinburn101 (Jul 29, 2021)

For 2:1 I've always made a mark inside a pail with a sharpie and filled it to that mark with sugar. Then I add boiled water and stir until the mixture is back at that same mark. Should wind up pretty **** close to 2:1 and no math required.


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## rdimanin (Jan 17, 2020)

honeybeealex said:


> i tried mixing up some 2:1 sugar water but it seems that all of the sugar just settled on the bottom... i know i am doing something wrong... could use some tips on how to mix 2:1 properly
> 
> Thanks... all input is helpful


Use a BLENDER!!! You don't have to worry about heating the mixture etc & it works quite well.


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## Oakfield bees (Aug 16, 2021)

honeybeealex said:


> i tried mixing up some 2:1 sugar water but it seems that all of the sugar just settled on the bottom... i know i am doing something wrong... could use some tips on how to mix 2:1 properly
> 
> Thanks... all input is helpful


For making 2:1 syrup I run my home hot water faucet until it reaches it's hottest delivery, then measure out a gallon of hot water for every 16 pounds of pure cane sugar I'm going to mix, combine, stir, and cover to keep the 140 degree heat in there as long as possible. I again stir several times every 15-20 minutes or so, as the water cools. By the time the water is cooled the sugar is completely dissolved and I can pour it into my containers to take back to pour into the feeders. I see several recommend boiling the water before adding the sugar. Not sure why other than to sterilize the water? My dad was a State Bee Inspector and he preached that I should never heat the water to boiling. Using 140 degree water from my tap works great for me. Just takes a little more time and effort to continue to stir until it's ready.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Oakfield bees said:


> I see several recommend boiling the water before adding the sugar. Not sure why other than to sterilize the water? My dad was a State Bee Inspector and he preached that I should never heat the water to boiling. Using 140 degree water from my tap works great for me. Just takes a little more time and effort to continue to stir until it's ready.


 Formation of Hydroxymethylfurfural (HMF) is a result of heating fructose (part of sucrose [table sugar]). And HMF is likely a problem for bees. So lower heat (*not* using boiling water) is likely to mean less HMF formation. More here:





__





Sugar For Bees | Bee Culture







www.beeculture.com


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## Boondocks (Sep 16, 2020)

I just know that if I wait a little while, the H20 has a chance to break the carbon bonds between the molecules of sucrose and the syrup mixes fairly easy. I usually wait 5-10 minutes. I put the sugar in the container, add water, stir a little to allow the sugar to be exposed to the water. And then wait a little while. and stir again.
i use warm tap water which is about 110F.


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