# What power supply to get for OAV?



## popejohnpaul2 (Apr 2, 2015)

So I bought one of snl's vaporizers. Excuse my naivete, but is purchasing a car battery along with a battery charger my only option? Would something like this (see link below) work?

http://www.homedepot.com/p/BLACK-DECKER-500-Watt-Portable-Power-Station-PPRH5B/203613410

Thanks for the help.


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## Norcalkyle (Apr 23, 2015)

I bought this one at Walmart and works great. Having an on off switch is so much easier than having to disconnect the clips on a battery. I just plug it in when I get home and within about 20 minutes it is fully charged again.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/38243755?...40210128&wl4=&wl5=pla&wl6=89074157337&veh=sem


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## Hogback Honey (Oct 29, 2013)

Can you drive your car up to the hives? If you need an extension from the car battery, you can use jumper cables to connect to the vaporizer.


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## TurnTex (Mar 6, 2015)

Norcalkyle said:


> I bought this one at Walmart and works great. Having an on off switch is so much easier than having to disconnect the clips on a battery. I just plug it in when I get home and within about 20 minutes it is fully charged again.


How many hives are you doing with one charge? Is there enough juice to do at least 6 or do you have to plug it back in and charge it up?


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## MichiganMike (Mar 25, 2014)

I use a $30 garden tractor battery and I recharge it with a cheap trickle charger but your suggestion should work.


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## Norcalkyle (Apr 23, 2015)

I have done 5 treatments at once, and I don't think I was even close to running out of power. When you get one of these things you have to plug it in for 24 hours to charge it. When I was done with 5 treatments I plugged it back in at home and within 30 minutes it was showing fully charged again


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## popejohnpaul2 (Apr 2, 2015)

@Hogback, getting a car close enough to the hives is a no go.

@Norcalkyle thanks for the info. I only have 3 hives and was wondering if something like that would do the trick.


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## bdouglas (Dec 18, 2014)

If you can't get your vehicle close enough to use your car battery, you can get a charger a lot cheaper than $99. Harbor Freight has a $8.99 float charger. How many hives do you have?


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Norcalkyle said:


> I bought this one at Walmart and works great. Having an on off switch is so much easier than having to disconnect the clips on a battery. I just plug it in when I get home and within about 20 minutes it is fully charged again.
> 
> http://www.walmart.com/ip/38243755?...40210128&wl4=&wl5=pla&wl6=89074157337&veh=sem


I use a similar one where I've hives that are inconvenient to pull my truck.


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## colby (Jan 12, 2013)

yep, a stand alone car jump starter works great for me.


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## TurnTex (Mar 6, 2015)

Thanks for the ideas, folks! I just got back from Lowes and bought one of these: http://www.lowes.com/pd_595190-41462-XP400___?productId=50223893&pl=1&Ntt=battery+charger

Hopefully 400 amps will be enough for 6 hives. If not, I will return it and try a bigger one. Heck, a lawnmower battery was not much cheaper and this is more convenient.


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## Ian G (Jul 29, 2014)

By my calculations a lawn mower battery should be able to safely do about 34 "treatments" before needing recharged.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Unless you are starting a car, the 400 amps of that Lowes charger/starter is not the particularly relevant number. Under the "Specifications" tab, the amp-hours is 5. That means (in theory) that the box can deliver 1 amp for 5 hours, or 5 amps for one hour, or 12.5 amps for 24 minutes, etc.

The vaporizers that _snl _sells are 150 watts, so running one for 3 minutes takes about 12.5 amps for 3 minutes, so _in theory_, that Lowes charger could deliver (8) 3 minute vaporizing sessions. Practical experience may be somewhat less. :shhhh:


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## Ian G (Jul 29, 2014)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> Unless you are starting a car, the 400 amps of that Lowes charger/starter is not the particularly relevant number. Under the "Specifications" tab, the amp-hours is 5. That means (in theory) that the box can deliver 1 amp for 5 hours, or 5 amps for one hour, or 12.5 amps for 24 minutes, etc.
> 
> The vaporizers that _snl _sells are 150 watts, so running one for 3 minutes takes about 12.5 amps for 3 minutes, so _in theory_, that Lowes charger could deliver (8) 3 minute vaporizing sessions. Practical experience may be somewhat less. :shhhh:


Something else to keep in mind, its recommended that you not discharge a battery below 50% otherwise the life is greatly shortened.


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## TurnTex (Mar 6, 2015)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> Unless you are starting a car, the 400 amps of that Lowes charger/starter is not the particularly relevant number. Under the "Specifications" tab, the amp-hours is 5. That means (in theory) that the box can deliver 1 amp for 5 hours, or 5 amps for one hour, or 12.5 amps for 24 minutes, etc.
> 
> The vaporizers that _snl _sells are 150 watts, so running one for 3 minutes takes about 12.5 amps for 3 minutes, so _in theory_, that Lowes charger could deliver (8) 3 minute vaporizing sessions. Practical experience may be somewhat less. :shhhh:


Thank you so much for that info. I know woodworking and home building very well but know little about electrical! I knew the 400 amps was not relevant but did not know how to do any calculations. Now I know! I am guessing the 12.5 amps comes from taking the 150 watts and dividing it by the voltage of 12 to get the 12.5? Is that correct? 

I will give it a go and see how it works. I know the general manager at my Lowes and ran into him today and asked him about it. He does not know electrical either but said to take it home and try it and if it did not work, return it! I may end up having to get a bigger one, time will tell!

Also, while you are at it , take a look at this from Lowes. I almost bought one to try first. It claims a rating of 10800 mA·h. Is that higher or lower than the other one? I am guessing 10800 mA·h is equal to 10.8 amp hour. Is that correct? The thing is very small but uses a lithium battery rather than lead acid. Is it worth trying?

http://www.lowes.com/pd_573361-7434...-_-Merch|Innovation_Instaboost_Buy_Now_Search


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## popejohnpaul2 (Apr 2, 2015)

@Graham, thanks for helping me understand some of the math. That was helpful.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> The vaporizers that _snl _sells are 150 watts, so running one for 3 minutes takes about 12.5 amps for 3 minutes, so _in theory_, that Lowes charger could deliver (8) 3 minute vaporizing sessions. Practical experience may be somewhat less. :shhhh:


The fellow I talked to recommended that you not completely drain these chargers/starters either, so you may want to go to a larger size even if this one is just adequate for vaping 6-8 hives...........


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## BeeAttitudes (Dec 6, 2014)

A standard car battery is not made to be "deep" cycled where it drains down all it's capacity. It won't hold up doing that over and over. Marine batteries are built to be deep cycled so that is a better choice.

1 mAH (milli-amp hour) is equal to 1/1000th of an AH (amp hour) so your conclusion was correct.

If your vaporizer is 12 volt and pulls 10 Amps (for example), you need a power supply that will provide 120 Watts of power (12V X 10A = 120 Watts). 

If you ran the vaporizer continuously, you would need (at 12V) a capacity of 10A X 1 Hour = 10 Amp Hours (at 12V) to operate the vaporizer. So if you need to run the vaporizer for 2 hours, then you need 20 Amp Hour capacity, etc. If you are using a traditional car battery and don't want to cycle it below 50% capacity, then double these number........20 Amp Hours capacity needed to operate the vaporizer for 1 Hour continuously.


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

BA. How does one derive the volts times amps equals watts thing?
The units don't work out. 
a watt is a joule per second. (no volts or amps there) 

I believe it and have seen this before just wondered who figgered it out and how. I'm an M.E. and can't understand this formula. The rest I got.
Ohms Law kind of covers it all. Enlighten me plz.

OP, get the wife to spring for an ATV and then you could drive your power supply to the hives. 
Sounds good anyway.

Harbor Freight sells a two-cycle generator that makes 110 AND 12 volts. Has a special cord to plug in that has battery clips. For a commercial guy, that's the way to go. Bolt it onto the bee trailer.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Watts are indeed a product of volts times amps. A heater that draws 15 amps at 110 volts is a 1650 watt heater. 

The issue with joules is that there needs to be a _time factor_ to express electrical energy in joules. More on that here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joule


If you run that 1650 watt heater for one hour, it will use 1.65 kilowatt hours, which since there is now time involved, is equivalent to 594000 joules (or 5940 Kj). Reference: http://www.rapidtables.com/convert/energy/kWh_to_Joule.htm




Just wait til the thread turns to _joules _in terms of an electric fence charger - protecting beehives from bears. Then the {bear?} fur will really fly!:lookout: :lpf:


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

Durn, how many watts and what-hours do you guys need to vaporize half a teaspoon of OA, anyway?

Me, well, Graham knows I rented a trencher and ran conduit out to my apiary, so I've got 120 VAC at 20 A out there if I want it, but I only had to run 100 ft. It sure is handy.

But I use formic acid, and with that the bees provide all the heat necessary to vaporize it.


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## KenNashua (Jan 31, 2015)

There's lots of these new ultra-compact jump starters based on lithium ion batteries....I wonder if they'd do the job for the house that only has a few hives:

http://www.amazon.com/Anker-Portabl...Flashlight/dp/B00T2GT9L4/ref=dp_ob_title_auto

List price is a lot, but I've seen them go pretty cheap ~$40.


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## my2cents (Jul 9, 2015)

Why not use this - 
http://www.harborfreight.com/900-pe...63cc-2-cycle-gas-generator-epacarb-60338.html 
with an electric oxidizer?


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## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

I've used a Harbor Freight jump starter for a couple years now. No regrets!

Fully charged, it will vaporize two grams of OA in less than 2 minutes, easy. By the time I get to the fourth hive, it might take a bit more time. But it works for me. 

It is a multi-tasker in your garage too.  

P.S. I got the 12V plug-in adaptor at Radio Shack. I later discovered it had a 10 AMP fuse. Now, it has a 15 AMP fuse ;-)


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## Pete O (Jul 13, 2013)

You don't even need a battery. Go to Ebay and buy a 12v 15 amp transformer and you are all set. An OAV heater doesn't care if it's run on AC or DC. Any transformer up to 15 volts will work fine.


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## flyin-lowe (May 15, 2014)

I hate to hijack but have a somewhat related question. Can one of you figure out how to calculate the cost (I am assuming I need to figure out kilowatt hours) to run a car battery charger drawing 5 amps. I have a large electrolysis tank I use for restoring old cast iron cookware. I usually hook one to the battery charger and it runs over night. I have always wandered what it is costing me per skillet.


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## Ian G (Jul 29, 2014)

flyin-lowe said:


> I hate to hijack but have a somewhat related question. Can one of you figure out how to calculate the cost (I am assuming I need to figure out kilowatt hours) to run a car battery charger drawing 5 amps. I have a large electrolysis tank I use for restoring old cast iron cookware. I usually hook one to the battery charger and it runs over night. I have always wandered what it is costing me per skillet.


Well if its pulling 5 amps, to get watts, just multiply the amps by the voltage, so 5x120v = 600watts If you run it for 8 hours that would be 4,800 watts or 4.8kWh. My cost per kWh is around 12 cents so it would cost me about 58 cents


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## MichiganMike (Mar 25, 2014)

I have a 2 amp charger that draws .5 amps at 120v. Read the label on your charger to determime the actual power usage for your charger and use the formula that Ian used.


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## flyin-lowe (May 15, 2014)

Thanks
That is exactly what I was looking for. My charger has a 2 amp and 10 amp setting. I know they are not designed for electrolysis but that is what I use it for. I learned real quick that when using them for this purpose the charger output is determined by the size of the piece I am cleaning. If I put a large 12 inch cast iron skillet in there and set it at 10 amps it will draw close to 18-20 amps. If I put a small piece in there like 4-5 inches across it will only draw about 2 amps, even when set on 10 amps. Average pieces run around 10 amps.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> Watts are indeed a product of volts times amps. A heater that draws 15 amps at 110 volts is a 1650 watt heater.


Not trying to be persnickety here but volts times amps to determine power only works for dc. AC power is a bit more complicated. Not that it matters for this discussion...since those batteries and vaporizers are all dc.


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## sweatybetty (Apr 24, 2015)

beemandan said:


> Not trying to be persnickety here but volts times amps to determine power only works for dc. AC power is a bit more complicated. Not that it matters for this discussion...since those batteries and vaporizers are all dc.


just curious, but what is the difference? amps are amps, no?


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

sweatybetty said:


> just curious, but what is the difference? amps are amps, no?


Indeed...amps are amps...but with alternating current (ac) the voltage changes as a cycle and, consequently, so does the current. In the instant when the voltage hits its peak...so does the current....and as the voltage passes through zero....the current hits zero too. If you check most newer ac appliances they will list VA (volt amperes) instead of power. The formula for ac power....if my old brain remembers....is IsquaredtimesR....I being current (probably rms current ...again if my aging memory is right) and R being the internal resistance of the device.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

beemandan said:


> Not trying to be persnickety here but volts times amps to determine power only works for dc. AC power is a bit more complicated.


I'm not sure what you think is complicated. The typical way that household AC voltage is measured is RMS (root-mean-square). In effect it measures the area outlined by the curve of the peak-to-peak AC voltage over the course of one cycle. 

But you don't have to know about RMS (or peak-to-peak) to understand that even in AC power, watts is _still _the product of volts times amps. Nominal AC {RMS} voltage is generally considered to be 110 volts or sometimes 115 volts.

An AC heater that draws 15 amps at 110 volts (RMS) is a 15*110 = 1650 watt heater.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> I'm not sure what you think is complicated.


I don't have any intention of arguing this. I worked as an electrical engineer for over twenty years but...during that working career ac power computations weren't part of my job. With that in mind, the last times I computed ac power consumption was in college...over forty years ago. I no longer have my text books or notes but my memory hasn't totally failed...and I can tell you that you are wrong. 
RMS voltage times instantaneous current (your formula) does not result in any significant measure of power....and probably not anything else either.
In my old...but not totally failed memory, to compute ac power consumed by a device you must know or be able to somehow compute the internal resistance of that device.
Good luck


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

beemandan said:


> ... to compute ac power consumed by a device you must know or be able to somehow compute the internal resistance of that device.


My example was of a heater, which is a resistive load. A wholly resistive load has an AC power factor of 1. 

Watts = PowerFactor × Amps × Voltage


Circuits/devices with inductive loads, say motors or transformers, normally have a power factor somewhere less than 1, so for inductive loads, the exact wattage calculation needs to consider the power factor also. But for a _heater _(a resistive load) plugged into AC, watts is a product of volts times amps as the power factor can be considered to be 1. (Note that some heaters do also have a small motor driving a fan.)





If you want to know more about _power factor_:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_factor


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

In my initial post I said that computing AC power was 'a bit more complicated'. I think you've made my point for me. Depending on the device itself, using voltage times current to compute ac power will result in an erroneous value. You are right, a heating element alone, without any sort of thermostat or other controlling components, is essentially purely resistive. Try the same computation for the ac motor on a Maxant extractor....and the results will be way off. Computing AC power, in my opinion....a bit more complicated than DC....that's all I was trying to say.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Note that calculating the resistance of any device that has a coil, (such as a motor), is a complicated affair. It doesn't matter whether that motor is driven by AC or DC, counter-EMF force is generated by the rotational action of the motor and that makes calculating resistance complicated. But that applies to _both _AC and DC motors.

But if the manufacturer of an AC motor has already calculated the maximum amps that the motor draws (typically shown on the motor nameplate), then for _most _ ordinary purposes the watts can be calculated by multiplying the volts (also on the nameplate) by the amps. This is not an IEEE (electrical engineer's) forum, it is Beesource.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

>It doesn't matter whether that motor is driven by AC or DC, counter-EMF force is generated by the rotational action of the motor and that makes calculating resistance complicated.

It is actually much more than the emf produced from the rotational action....inductive impedances are a factor in stationary devices as well. It is a lot more complicated than you're likely to find on Wikipedia. 

But, as you pointed out
> This is not an IEEE (electrical engineer's) forum, it is Beesource.

Therefore...to all beesource readers....voltage times current will give you power....no matter what. It is as simple as that. 


Sheesh!


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## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

I bought a lawn mower battery and trickle charger. Did 4 colonies off of the charge that came on the battery.

Charged it ovenight with a trickle charger, it only did 2 the next time. 

Bought a new heavy duty charger. It will do 3. Which I had bought the car device. Tempted to do it anyway. Only 2 more treatments this year so I will probably wait til next year unless, I see one really cheap.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

All I gotta say is . . . _V_[SUB](V)[/SUB] = _I_[SUB](A)[/SUB] × _Z_[SUB](Ω)[/SUB] = _(|__I__|_×_|__Z_|) ∠ (_θ[SUB]I[/SUB]_ + _θ[SUB]Z[/SUB]_), _S_[SUB](VA)[/SUB] = _V_[SUB](V)[/SUB] × _I_[SUB](A)[/SUB] = _(|__V__|_×_|__I_|) ∠ (_θ[SUB]V[/SUB]_ - _θ[SUB]I[/SUB]_), 
_P_[SUB](W)[/SUB] = _V_[SUB](V)[/SUB] × _I_[SUB](A)[/SUB] × cos_ φ, __Q_[SUB](VAR)[/SUB] = _V_[SUB](V)[/SUB] × _I_[SUB](A)[/SUB] × sin_ φ, PF = |cos φ|

_That should get you where you need to be.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

dsegrest said:


> I bought a lawn mower battery and trickle charger. Did 4 colonies off of the charge that came on the battery.


Using a Heilsyer OAV unit and my three year old mower battery....I can do 20 plus hives with a full charge.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Barry said:


> All I gotta say is . . . That should get you where you need to be.


Indeed....simple as that. 
PS...you ought to try to wade through that sort of mess with a slide rule...if you're looking to have a good time.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

While we are discussing AC motors, a simple practical example of the relationship between watts, amps and voltage. 

An AC motor is sometimes suitable for either nominal 110 volts, or nominal 220 volts (see the nameplate, often as simple as moving a wire from one terminal to another). If the motor draws, for example 10 amps at 110 volts, then that is a 1100 watt load. If you rewire the motor connections to use 220 (and of course provide 220 volts), then the amps drawn will be half the original 10 amps. But since the voltage is doubled, the motor still draws 1100 watts.*


But perhaps that Dan would prefer that instead you use the formula that _Barry _posted in message #40 above! 




* There is a slight advantage to using the 220 volt scheme as since the amps the motor draws are halved, overall line losses due to wire resistance are slightly lower. But it is a _small _difference.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> But perhaps that Dan would prefer that instead you use the formula that _Barry _posted in message #40 above!


Makes one wonder why people invented all those formulas....after all...it is simply voltage times current. Go figure....figuratively.


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

Sheesh, this is a lot more wind than needs to be expended for the question, which was off-topic anyway.

When I was studying this stuff, the Electrical Engineering department faculty softball team at Virginia Tech called themselves the K-VARs. That comes from kilo volt-amps reactive. That name is the units used to describe inductive electrical "imaginary power." If there is a 90 degree phase shift between voltage and current, the product of the two values is an imaginary number, and does not represent real power consumption. Resonant circuits are in this condition. So are pendulums. People managing industrial power loads need to worry about it. Homeowners should keep it simple.

For the purposes at hand, one poster wanted to get an idea of what it would cost to use his battery charger for an electrolysis operation. In rough numbers anyway. There is a transformer in that supply, so one can certainly say that a phase shift between voltage and current is likely, and get all analytical about it, get out a vector voltmeter or phase angle meter and go nuts. But if you know the amps the device is drawing at 115 V, multiply volts by amps, and then multiply by time, that's OK for the purpose. If there is a significant phase shift, then a component of volt-amps is imaginary. Most modern household power meters are designed to only measure the real component, so the imaginary component is not billed. Thus, the simple method overestimates the power cost, a little, maybe. But good enough for the original question.


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## gnor (Jun 3, 2015)

I'm going to use my lawn tractor. Extend the power cord from the vaporizer, and run the engine at a fast idle. That should keep the battery charged, and I would get even vaporization times.


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## my2cents (Jul 9, 2015)

I have never read in the 37 years of electrical and electronics that I have been involved in where OHM"S law stated "these laws only apply to DC"?


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Phoebee said:


> Sheesh, this is a lot more wind than needs to be expended for the question, which was off-topic anyway.


I think the op's question was answered long ago. I doubt if more than a few folks have read much beyond the first dozen posts.
It seems painless to me for us to quibble over the details of ac power computations.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

my2cents said:


> I have never read in the 37 years of electrical and electronics that I have been involved in where OHM"S law stated "these laws only apply to DC"?


I don't believe that ohm's law ever addressed power. Voltage...current and resistance. No mention of power.
In fact, I doubt if the concepts of alternating current (or voltage), inductive and capacitive reactance and impedance had even been discovered during Ohm's day. I could probably go to Wikipedia and find out....but it doesn't really matter.


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## jcolon (Sep 12, 2014)

Will this be enough to operate it for a handful of hives?

http://www.harborfreight.com/12-volt-jump-start-and-power-supply-38391.html


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

That Harbor Freight battery claims 17 amp hours. A typical vaporizer draws about 13 amps for the say 3 minute heating time, which is 13*3/60 =0.65 amp hours. So theoretically (not counting losses and assuming perfect battery performance) it could run the vaporizer for more than 20 vaporizing sessions. Since performance is unlikely to be perfect, actual numbers are going to be less, but it seems that "a _handful_" of hives should be OK.


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## jcolon (Sep 12, 2014)

Regular mask or respirator? What do most people use?


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

For formic acid I've been using a simple respirator with an organic vapor cartridge, but in a discussion of this last year, someone pointed out that there are cartridges expressly for organic acids. I would not expect a plain mask to do anything useful.

Anyone doing this for a living, and with employees, needs to check the OSHA regs on this. Hope they don't expect masks for the bees.

I wonder if they'll go after barkeepers cleaning their counters with Barkeeper's Friend?


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

jcolon said:


> Regular mask or respirator? What do most people use?


The EPA has stated an acid gas respirator. Keep a smoker lit and stand upwind. You don't want to breathe the vapors.


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## Pete O (Jul 13, 2013)

I guess I'm a newcomer to all of this electronic stuff having been in the industry for over fifty years. I don't really care about phase angles, reflection, standing waves, wattage, plate current, scatter parameters, or hypoid differential lubricants. I'll still use my plain old transformer and not worry about any calculations.


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## emrude (Mar 23, 2015)

I just did a treatment on one hive with a "quipall" jump charger. It only had about a half charge and it did the hive with no problem. I had tried to use my old jump starter and it has given up the ghost. So I used the new one but it hadn't been charged recently. I am going to charge it and treat my other two hives tomorrow.


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## Pete O (Jul 13, 2013)

I am NOT advertising but suggest those interested in power supplies to power OAV might want to search out Ebay for 

AC-110V-220V-to-DC-12V-Regulated-Transformer-Power-Supply-For-LED-Strip-Light
AC-110V-220V-to-DC-12V-Regulated-Transformer-Power-Supply-For-LED-Strip-Light
AC-110V-220V-to-DC-12V-Regulated-Transformer-Power-Supply-For-LED-Strip-Light
AC-110V-220V-to-DC-12V-Regulated-Transformer-Power-Supply-For-LED-Strip-Light
AC-110V-220V-to-DC-12V-Regulated-Transformer-Power-Supply-For-LED-Strip-Light
AC-110V-220V-to-DC-12V-Regulated-Transformer-Power-Supply-For-LED-Strip-Light
AC-110V-220V-to-DC-12V-Regulated-Transformer-Power-Supply-For-LED-Strip-Light
Have one to sell? Sell now
AC 110V / 220V to DC 12V Regulated Transformer Power Supply For LED Strip Light

I have no interest with this supplier whatsoever. I'm just giving a source for those interested in an inexpensive source for a power supply and I would recommend the 30 amp module. Again, I have no fiduciary connection with this company; I'm just passing on a source of a commonly needed power supply. If I weren't using an ordinary transformer, I would recommend the 30 amp model. 

Once again, I'm not advertising these products; the prices are quite appealing. These supplies are clearly switching supplies.


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## jcolon (Sep 12, 2014)

I got a Stanley jump starter, 500 amps cca, chemical gloves and acid respirator. I should be ready for next weekend.


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## bison (Apr 27, 2011)

jcolon said:


> Will this be enough to operate it for a handful of hives?
> 
> http://www.harborfreight.com/12-volt-jump-start-and-power-supply-38391.html


I use this exact one - works fine for at least four hives in a row.


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