# Neighbors destroying colonies



## ChrisBex (Jul 24, 2014)

I finally found out why my colonies are on the decline ever since spring started. I don't live in a subdivision, but a smaller residential area. My backyard is only 40ft wide and one side of my yard gets more sun then the other. That's why I put my hives towards this side. I have a total of 10 hives in my home apiary and have been keeping bees since I was 3ft tall. I live in Mississippi and there are no state, county, or local laws restricting/prohibiting/regulating residential/hobby beekeeping. 

I checked first with MSU (Mississippi State University) entomology department.







. Using Mrs. Audrey information I contact my local Chamber of Commerce. I got re-directed and re-directed they couldn't give me any solid information. Got transferred to the "legal" department and they had no records indicating laws regarding beekeeping. I don't live in an area with a home owners association either. I hope I checked all my bases.

Then this morning I found this: 





I'm still quite mad and shaken up over this event. I called the local police and have a case number in hand. The police officer wanted to know how much money of property damage it was and how much it costs. I'm so upset i couldn't give him a solid number, just that my honey crop this year is destroyed. Over $1000.00 just in honey sales.

Happy SUNDAY!


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## larryh (Jul 28, 2014)

Man, you were much more diplomatic than I would have been with that meathead..


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Yes, but he has a case number with the police... as the victim not the assailant. Way to stay cool under the circumstances. I am sure the situation is very upsetting. Wonder why this just started? Have either of you recently moved there? You did say you have been keeping bees since you were young, so what is different about the circumstances?

Jean-Marc


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## The General (Apr 22, 2014)

Sue him in a Civil suit.

With the statements that you have that keeping bees is acceptable in your location and with video evidence along with a police report of him vandalizing your bees, you should have an easy victory. Sue him for triple the costs of what you think you lost plus lawyer fees.

Lawyer up and make him pay.


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## michkel (Dec 1, 2012)

Glad you got that on video. What jerks. I'd be furious.

I'm with the general, sue the crap outta them.


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## Barry Digman (May 21, 2003)

This just makes my blood boil. 

That said, this is a thread that can easily derail, and understandably so. Please keep in mind that suggestions of retaliation or any kind of illegal activity are frowned upon on Beesource.


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## ChrisBex (Jul 24, 2014)

Thanks for the support. I am indeed going to do some "legal" studies on this issue. My good friend is a lawyer in Louisiana. I just told her about it, first this she said was "Destruction of Private Property and Terrorism by poising food supply". I dunno how the terrorism thing fits in, but we'll see.

I will be pressing these matters further to rectify any more attempts of destroying my property.


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## wdale (Jun 27, 2014)

ChrisBex

Move hive out of reach and - - -


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## Dan P (Oct 29, 2014)

wow. Your the calmest person I know. My reaction would not have been very pleasant at all. Stay calm and do the court thing. I see big losses.


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

Wow, I pride myself on being able to keep my cool, but we can all start taking lessons from you. Way to go. That being said, nail 'em in court.
For a different perspective http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?314960-Unhappy-Neighbors&p=1299886#post1299886

Alex


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## ChrisBex (Jul 24, 2014)

AHudd said:


> Wow, I pride myself on being able to keep my cool, but we can all start taking lessons from you. Way to go. That being said, nail 'em in court.
> For a different perspective http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?314960-Unhappy-Neighbors&p=1299886#post1299886
> 
> Alex


I've actually been watching that thread since it started. I like the basset hound idea and roosters. Since I can have both on my property.


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## JeffM17 (Jul 19, 2013)

Wow amazing! What did the police say about the incident? Do they consider it entirely a civil issue? 

I wonder if this would be considered an illegal use of a pesticide, perhaps your state has some sort of environmental agency or agricultural agency that would look into that as well.


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## Colobee (May 15, 2014)

You got it. File charges. That is akin to "animal cruelty" - like poisoning a dog. The monetary loss should include replacing all equipment, at current costs, as well as drawn comb/full colony adjustments. A $2000-$3000 bill should get some attention - assuming he/she isn't as brain dead as they appear.

Get an IR camera - the bonehead might come out at 2AM, next time.

On the bright side - a can of Raid probably did little more than kill a few unfortunate foragers. 'Depends on what was in that can - not likely extremely toxic to the colony. You'll have to have the honey tested for pesticides - save the bill.


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## the kid (Nov 26, 2006)

10 hives for that small of lot ????? don't get me wrong but that is a lot for that small lot... and yes I do have bees but thats a lot of bees for lot that small


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## burns375 (Jul 15, 2013)

Wow that is uneblievable. Did you call the cops. I would press charges for destruction of property. Too bad you didn't get a shot of the person over the fence with a can pesticide. This will make relations tough, I don't know if i could every respect the person again.Have you spoke to the neighbors before about the bees... 

In louisville we have no beekeeping restrictions. But nuisance law will prevail if a neighbor can prove they bothering them, buzzing them, stinging them, hindering them enjoying their home and property. Sorta like chickens, if someone had a rooster that was crowing every monring Or someone playing music loudy.


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

my sincere sympathies. unfortunatly there is not enough money involved to attract a realy nasty lawyer. the bio-terrorism idea might be worth looking into.


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## MikeinCarolina (Mar 9, 2014)

Wow the nerve of some people. My hat is off to you for maintaining your cool - I would not have been as diplomatic. I would move my hives out into the middle of the yard though and get the advice of a good attorney if need bee.


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## MariahK (Dec 28, 2014)

This just makes my blood boil, and I also why I have security cameras all around my property!. Please update later with the outcome of police or lawsuits


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## ChrisBex (Jul 24, 2014)

MariahK said:


> This just makes my blood boil, and I also why I have security cameras all around my property!. Please update later with the outcome of police or lawsuits


I will. No one open on Sundays.


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

In Indiana that is a felony. Check your state laws concerning attacks or damage to livestock and/or bees -- quite often killing livestock is a felony, and that can of raid can be a very expensive device.

At the very least, you should be able to get a restraining order against him.

Contact a lawyer next week -- it's not likely he did much damage on that particular date, but who knows what would happen if the wind was blowing the spray back at him. If he has actually cost you some hives, he owes you triple damages (including lawyer's fees, don't go cheap), at least he would in Indiana.

I'm sure Mississippi has property damage laws, and he was definitely trespassing. You should also post no trespassing signs on the fence (and in front of the property, all sides) -- this will make it possible for him to be arrested next time he sprays something over the fence.

I would also move the bees to the other side of the yard, a pain, I know, but at least he won't be able to get to them so easily. Flip side is that right now he can't use the wasp spray type on them since the entrance faces away, and he might be able to across the property.

Peter


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

Chris, tomorrow morning I would contact the Mississippi Department of Agriculture and get them involved. The state is likely to charge them with a felony offense. I would pursue the case to the fullest extent of the law. Alabama's version of what I said is Alabama Department of Agriculture and Industries. You video proves malicious intent, assuming that your video is admissible as evidence. While this is all fresh on your mind you need to sit down and write down what happened, including time and dates. Every single thing you remember no matter how small you may think it is. 

Don't back down and prosecute them.

I guarantee you that you a more level headed person than I am. If I had been in your shoes I would likely be in handcuffs. There would have been a person sized hole in their fence.

The terrorism of the food supply is a big deal. You have the opportunity to set a precedence for beekeeping all over the nation.


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

By the way, most trail cameras have video capability. You can purchase a decent infrared trail camera for about $150. I have several cameras and my current favorite is a Browning. If I can find a link to the one that I have I will post it.


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## frankthomas (Aug 2, 2012)

I wonder if it'd be worth the while to sit down at the kitchen table with them and try to educate them? Probably not though. They obviously lack enough intelligence or character to do that. Your video blew me away. I'd of gone ballistic.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

The whole time I was watching the video I was saying to myself put the camera up over the fence so we can see them! PUT IT UP OVER THE FENCE!!!

Not sure how you "prove" it was them regardless what you know. 

What terrible neighbors. Are one of you new to the 'hood'?


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## JakeDatc (Apr 19, 2010)

Well, i'm glad that was a lot less damaging than the title suggested. I doubt more than a few dozen bees were harmed in his stupid stunt.. Throw as much of the book at them as you can for the intent but at least your hives are likely fine. Looks like the guy got more in his face than near the hives. I doubt any spray got inside the hive to harm your honey.


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## thehackleguy (Jul 29, 2014)

jwcarlson said:


> The whole time I was watching the video I was saying to myself put the camera up over the fence so we can see them! PUT IT UP OVER THE FENCE!!!
> 
> Not sure how you "prove" it was them regardless what you know.
> 
> What terrible neighbors. Are one of you new to the 'hood'?


I'm starting to think we are the same person, that is exactly what I was thinking!


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## bbruff22 (Dec 24, 2013)

ChrisBex said:


> I've actually been watching that thread since it started. I like the basset hound idea and roosters. Since I can have both on my property.


ChrisBex, Good luck to you as you work this, as the others have said, please keep us posted. I admire your restraint.


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## thehackleguy (Jul 29, 2014)

BTW....I breed chickens if you need some roosters let me know


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## ChrisBex (Jul 24, 2014)

jwcarlson said:


> The whole time I was watching the video I was saying to myself put the camera up over the fence so we can see them! PUT IT UP OVER THE FENCE!!!
> 
> Not sure how you "prove" it was them regardless what you know.
> 
> What terrible neighbors. Are one of you new to the 'hood'?


I've been in this neighborhood for a couple years. This is my first home I've bought, I have another home further North of me that my grandmother gave me when she passed. That house is to far to visit more than every couple months. I didn't want to put the camera over the fence feeling that it would violate some kind of privacy laws and escalate the situation. Two wrongs don't make a right.


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## MizAmberLea (Apr 21, 2015)

Oh my God oh my God oh my God!!!

I hope no harm was done to your bees-and I hope you nail those neighbors to the wall!

I think I'm having a panic attack! I'm going out to check my bees RIGHT NOW!


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## rookie2531 (Jul 28, 2014)

I too have some neighbors that I have worried about. There are more ways to do that evil deed and not get caught, and that's what I worry about the most. Just be grateful, that person was too dumb to try to rid your hives with none the wiser.

I will not post ways and hope nobody else does either. Good luck getting this person to learn.


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

It is hard to believe these folks are so blatant with their actions. Were you able to get a video I'd of the can? Otherwise they could say they were spraying sugar water vapour if it comes to a court case. It may be worth swabbing for residual chemical...there must lots on the top of that fence as they weren't tall enough to clear it.


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## lemmje (Feb 23, 2015)

Hats off to you sir! I know what my reaction would have been, is why i moved to the county and away from neighbors. We all know how we would react, but you showed us the correct way to do so. I hope you get this arbitrated to your satisfaction.


On the downside, i nearly beat a kid senseless i found breaking into my vehicle at 4 am several years ago. My dog actually grabbed my arm to stop me from doing what i was doing to this punk roaming the neighborhood looking for anything he could hawk for some drug money. You did this right, minus filming the person's face on the other side of the fence, but methinks that property owner is at fault.

Well done!


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## ChrisBex (Jul 24, 2014)

WBVC said:


> It is hard to believe these folks are so blatant with their actions. Were you able to get a video I'd of the can? Otherwise they could say they were spraying sugar water vapour if it comes to a court case. It may be worth swabbing for residual chemical...there must lots on the top of that fence as they weren't tall enough to clear it.


I have went out there and i have a bag of cotton swaps and cotton balls in a zip lock bag. It smelt like raid, and didn't have the velocity to be wasp spray (stream), but I could be wrong. Who knows this could have been the 10th time she sprayed and just tried something new to kill them.


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## Digginmich (Jul 25, 2013)

I am humbled at the way you handled this. I would have not been able to maintain the control you did. Your setup and your hives are beautiful. It is apparent you have put a lot of work and care into your hives (and yard) and it shows. You should go after this person to the fullest extent of the law-civil and criminal. If anything positive can be taken away from this horrid experience it is the way you handled yourself. I wish you the best of luck in beekeeping and hope these "neighbors" of yours end up where they belong.


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## JConnolly (Feb 21, 2015)

It is a crime in my state to spray insecticide on bees that are not on your property that you do not own. Definitely find out for sure what your state laws are. The police probably don't know, go to the agriculture department.


Edit to add an idea. Do you have a shed? Or would you like to have a shed? Placing a small shed between the fence and your hives would make them inaccessible to your neighbor.

Pursue legal options, but the neighbor knew what they were doing was inappropriate but that didn't stop them. Fact is, you'll probably need to do something to find a situation where "out of sight out of mind" can happen


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## ChrisBex (Jul 24, 2014)

I found this today. If anyone with lawyer jargon can dissect this for me.

http://law.justia.com/codes/mississippi/2013/title-95/chapter-3/section-95-3-29


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

One phone call to these people in the morning will yield you more correct information than I could get from your link. There is a contact name and number towards the bottom right of the page.

https://www.mdac.ms.gov/bureaus-departments/plant-industry/honeybee-program/


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## Dunkel (Jun 12, 2009)

Your an awesome guy. I would have ripped that one board off and videoed that dude. Have they not even mentioned the bees to you?

Nah, that is a staged video, no one is that calm.


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## Terry C (Sep 6, 2013)

ChrisBex said:


> I found this today. If anyone with lawyer jargon can dissect this for me.
> 
> http://law.justia.com/codes/mississippi/2013/title-95/chapter-3/section-95-3-29


 I think that section says basically that your neighbor can't bring action against your bees as a "nuisance" if they've been there over a year and there have been no complaints . I hope you nail those unspeakably evil beings to the wall . It looked in the video like the neighbor tried to spray some of that at you , as they were walking down the fence line . I believe that can be considered aggravated assault ...


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## BeeBop (Apr 23, 2015)

Wow. You're a way better man than me. I would have been over that fence in a heartbeat with a short length of 2 x 4 and a very bad attitude. I would have made sure they ate what was left of that can of spray.

I hope they get jail time and lose their freakin house & property.


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

My Dad always said tall fences make great neighbors. In this case your fence isn't tall enough. lol


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## missybee (Sep 6, 2014)

Get a trail cam, put it on a pole high enough to film your bees and it just happens to catch the other side of the fence, just the other side so you are not invading privacy. 

We have 16 cameras watching our pond, bees yard etc, mainly because I like watching the wildlife that wanders through. But if someone messed with our bees it would be well recorded. (our bees are deep into our property so not even worried about them, but you never know)


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

Your neighbor is a horrible person!! I would strongly pursue the fullest criminal prosecution possible. If you are "lucky," this nasty person has a record of other acts of vandalism, and a judge will finally get tough with him/her. Unfortunately, that probable won't be the case (hopefully, I am wrong on this). I see little chance for civil prosecution, since it appears there was little damage to your hives.

IMHO, you've got a problem on your hands that goes beyond spraying insecticide on your hives (which, by itself is really really bad!). To deliberately attempt to kill your hives in broad daylight, and to be so dumb to think that the undirected spraying of a can of consumer-grade insecticide over the fence will do so, shows your neighbor is a vicious and stupid person. He/she may even have some serious mental health problems which lead to irrational behavior or poor impulse control, resulting in further conflict on multiple issues. Who knows what other problems he/she is going to cause for you - shoot your dog because it barked? Poison your cat because it strayed into his/her yard?? Surveillance cameras pointing into your yard? Key your car because he/she doesn't like where it is parked. Search through your trash for sensitive information to attempt further harm against you?

I am one who believes "life is easier when you are friends with your neighbors." But his/her actions go way beyond any hope of ever being friends or approaching some level of functional coexistence.

Unfortunately, you lost the "good neighbor lottery" when you bought this house.

I have no potential solution to suggest, but I think you have a problem on your hands beyond the safety of your beehives.

JMHO




.


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## wbjdmd (May 13, 2015)

Mississippi 's department of agriculture has a law enforcement branch that investigates and prosecutes ag related crime. They respond to crimes involving crop theft, livestock theft, even copper theft from center pivots and irrigation components. They investigate equipment theft like tractors, combines, and cotton pickers. I would think they would be a great resource for you and would know all of the specific laws that could apply. Sorry that you have to deal with this, sad that someone would do this!


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

Curious to know if you had met this neighbor prior to this happening? If so, how did that exchange go? Really bizarre behavior! Sure wish you would have lifted the camera above the fence, seems like your defense would have been much stronger.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

>Your neighbor is a horrible person!! I would strongly pursue the fullest criminal prosecution possible

Sometimes trying to obtain justice just escalates the behavior of this kind of nut case. My neighbor did not complain about my bees for the first two years of living there. Then she got a psychotic rescue dog who barks continuously. I complained to her several times. Never a word of concern or apology from her. Her responses:
"Dogs bark, that's what they do". 
"The problem is not my dog barking, the problem is you complaining about it".
"Your complaints are harassment, I am going to call the sheriiff".

She claims I dumped dead bees over the fence onto her patio. She complained when my gardener dropped a few trimmings over the fence. So this week a hive sent an after swarm through her yard, it landed in my yard and later flew away. She called the sheriff who came knocking. I explained that it was retaliatory complaints against my dog barking complaints. Her dog barked violently as he approached my house and even more when he went to her house. I have kept bees here for 42 years without another complaint. My neighbor on the other side ordered a Garden Hive from me this spring for his yard. I would report it but not prosecute it.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

odfrank - I agree with you on this. I think this is the beginning of a long battle. Some people live to make other's unhappy, and the neighbor is one of these people. No matter what the OP does in response, this neighbor is going to make his life miserable. If the OP totally capitulates and moves the hives to another property, this neighbor will find something else to complain about. I am afraid it is going to be lose-lose for the OP with this vicious and irrational neighbor.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

Sorry to rain on the parade but if you did not get a picture of the person doing it, you are going to have a really hard time winning a law suit. Was it the neighbor, neighbor's wife, or kids? It could have been somebody from 2 houses down that crossed into your neighbor's yard because he knew your bees were right over the fence and that was the best location to spray from.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

Nabber86 said:


> Sorry to rain on the parade but if you did not get a picture of the person doing it, you are going to have a really hard time winning a law suit. Was it the neighbor, neighbor's wife, or kids? It could have been somebody from 2 houses down that crossed into your neighbor's yard because he knew your bees were right over the fence and that was the best location to spray from.


No doubt a video of the person's face would be best, but the OP was there when it happened. He will be able to confirm who was doing the spraying, if he saw the perpetrator or spoke to him/her, etc. But, I agree, the bare video is not enough, by itself, to support a criminal prosecution.

JMHO


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## typhoontx (May 1, 2013)

To bad you couldn't have snuck up and grabbed the spray can from them then you would have their fingerprints on it as well as what they were spraying. I hope those people are just renters and will eventually move away. If you prosecute them ( successfully or not) that kind of person will probably try to retaliate in some way or another.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

shinbone said:


> No doubt a video of the person's face would be best, but the OP was there when it happened. He will be able to confirm who was doing the spraying, if he saw the perpetrator or spoke to him/her, etc. But, I agree, the bare video is not enough, by itself, to support a criminal prosecution.


The OP probably may know exactly who did it, but a judge would probably laugh at a video of an unidentified hand spraying an unidentified substance over a fence. Standing up and saying, "Your Honor, obviously it was my neighbor with a can of raid" isn't going to do anything.

Also how much is 500 dead bees in a Ziplock bag worth? Honey crop? There is a lot of monetary damage there. I doubt you would want to sell it to anyone, but the OP would have to have the honey tested in a lab and pay for it. There is a real possibility that no pesticides would be detected. Even if pesticide was detected we are back to the question of what was sprayed. Raid, Black Flag, Orthor Max, Wasp Hornet Killer? Without the empty can with the guy's fingerprints on it, you are out of luck.


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## ChrisBex (Jul 24, 2014)

I contact department of agriculture today they are sending someone down this week to investigate my case. Cop is off duty until Wednesday I can't get an update on my case I filed with the local police.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

Bees are a popular cause right now and beekeepers seen as warrior gods saving the EARF. Play that card and get the mindless little reporter at the local rag and or television station all worked up about this animal cruelty/pollination ending tradgedy. That will make more happen than anything, possibly making people insist that the willow in the wind judge see it as the crime it is. We no longer live in a nation of laws but one of feelings. Play the game. Your calm voice and the hand on the spray can will play on every newscast for a week.


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## Dan P (Oct 29, 2014)

even though a lot of people say, you need more information picture or can or something. I still think you should file in court. Your neighbors are always going to be a problem if it wasnt bees then it wouldve been poisoning your dog or chickens or whatever. Anything they dont like. So push it. Some gross intent to cause financial burden on you. Was you going to place those bees in future to promote federal pollinator act??


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## thehackleguy (Jul 29, 2014)

Nabber86 said:


> The OP probably may know exactly who did it, but a judge would probably laugh at a video of an unidentified hand spraying an unidentified substance over a fence. Standing up and saying, "Your Honor, obviously it was my neighbor with a can of raid" isn't going to do anything.
> 
> Also how much is 500 dead bees in a Ziplock bag worth? Honey crop? There is a lot of monetary damage there. I doubt you would want to sell it to anyone, but the OP would have to have the honey tested in a lab and pay for it. There is a real possibility that no pesticides would be detected. Even if pesticide was detected we are back to the question of what was sprayed. Raid, Black Flag, Orthor Max, Wasp Hornet Killer? Without the empty can with the guy's fingerprints on it, you are out of luck.


So there is no benifit for an eye witness? I thought a lot of people are sent to the chair with eye witness account?? I'm no lawyer though.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

thehackleguy said:


> So there is no benifit for an eye witness? I thought a lot of people are sent to the chair with eye witness account?? I'm no lawyer though.


Eye witness of the arm of an unknown person?? I don't think even Perry Mason would win that case. 





Vance G said:


> Play that card and get the mindless little reporter at the local rag and or television station all worked up about this animal cruelty/pollination ending tragedy.


Now that is the best advice in this thread. Tell the reported that you are pretty sure it was the neighbor and spread the word around the neighborhood. Fight him in the court of public opinion.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

Vance G said:


> Bees are a popular cause right now and beekeepers seen as warrior gods saving the EARF. Play that card and get the mindless little reporter at the local rag and or television station all worked up about this animal cruelty/pollination ending tradgedy. That will make more happen than anything, possibly making people insist that the willow in the wind judge see it as the crime it is. We no longer live in a nation of laws but one of feelings. Play the game. Your calm voice and the hand on the spray can will play on every newscast for a week.


Genius Vance!!


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

Nabber86 said:


> Standing up and saying, "Your Honor, obviously it was my neighbor with a can of raid" isn't going to do anything.


Oral testimony from witnesses is perfectly admissible in court and is still the foundation of most criminal convictions.

I have no interest in getting into a debate about the theory of evidence as it applies to criminal matters, but not having a video of the neighbor's face, if the OP has other facts that allow him to know who it was, should not be a deterrent to the OP if he wants to press criminal prosecution.

Ultimately, it will be the local prosecutor who will determine whether a criminal complaint would actually be filed, so the OP doesn't have the last word on the matter. But in smaller matters like this, a vocal and cooperative victim does have some impact on the decision to file.

I would also avoid attempting to smear someone's reputation in the press. That has a lawsuit for slander written all over it.






.


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## estreya (Apr 20, 2014)

Vance G ... brilliant advise! And i have nothing but admiration for the composure of the beekeeper. I'm not sure what i would have done, but i'm fairly sure that, "Can i help you," wouldn't have been the words that came out of my mouth.


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

Nabber86 said:


> Eye witness of the arm of an unknown person?? I don't think even Perry Mason would win that case.
> ....
> Tell the reported that you are pretty sure it was the neighbor and spread the word around the neighborhood. Fight him in the court of public opinion.


I would think that if one can't prove guilt based on evidence, one might have little hope of winning any slander case the neighbor might bring.

Of course, I'm not a lawyer and would hesitate before taking that advice.

Wayne


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## larryh (Jul 28, 2014)

vance g nailed it. shame that loser.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

How did you know to have a camera at the right time? Did you see them do it first and then take video (probably from a phone)?


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## BeeCoolBro (Jun 6, 2015)

Acebird said:


> How did you know to have a camera at the right time? Did you see them do it first and then take video (probably from a phone)?


I'm not sure of his situation but I know I can pull my phone out of my pocket and be recording in less than 30 seconds. Lucky he kept his cool enough to think to do it before confronting the person. And I'm sure he got a good enough look at the person through the fence to be able to identify them for legal action. Especially if it's someone familiar to him like a neighbor.


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## thehackleguy (Jul 29, 2014)

That is what I was thinking....I mean you see your neighbors all the time. Seems legit to me.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

BeeCoolBro said:


> . And I'm sure he got a good enough look at the person through the fence to be able to identify them for legal action. Especially if it's someone familiar to him like a neighbor.


For "legal purposes" you have to convince a judge. The judge does not read Bee Source and has to be impartial. Even if you claimed that you saw your neighbor through the fence (looks like a pretty tight fence to me), the video is not evidence and pretty much worthless. For all the judge knows you could have staged the whole thing to get back at your neighbor for some other feud that has been going on. 

Imagine court transcript: 

Lawyer: That's a really nice iPhone you have there. How many megapixels does it have?

ChrisBex: 10 megapixels.

Lawyer: 10 mp? That is impressive. So you could say that it is almost as good as a human eye. 

ChrisBex: (falling for the bait) Yeah, I guess so. 

Lawyer: Then how could you have possibly seen the person on the other side of an 8-foot fence, when the video camera doesn't pick anything up on the other side of the fence? Also, you were running and filming at the same time, weren't you 

ChrisBex: Yes.

Lawyer: Can you please explain how you were able to identify the person while filming and running at the same time? Weren't you worried about tripping and keeping the camera on the subject. You must be quite the multi-tasker. 

ChrisBex: He was on the other side of the fence, it was my neighbor, my neighbor hates me. I know it was him.

Lawyer: At what point in the video did you make this discovery? 

ChrisBex: Uh, about 25 seconds in.

Lawyer: Please pause the video at the 25 second mark. Well I sure don't see anything but an arm. 

Lawyer: Well ChrisBex, did you or did you not actually see the person doing the spraying? Remember you are under oath.


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## thehackleguy (Jul 29, 2014)

As long as we are making things up in our heads, this is what they said in my head  

ChrisBex: I saw them walking out to the back from the house, then after I stopped recording I looked through a crack in the fence. Furthermore, I walked to the front yard and I saw him (or her) again carrying the can.


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## cavscout (Apr 21, 2015)

Holy smoke you did a good job staying cool. Not sure it would have turned out so well with me lol. Good luck and I hope you get what is due to you.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

thehackleguy said:


> As long as we are making things up in our heads, this is what they said in my head
> 
> ChrisBex: I saw them walking out to the back from the house, then after I stopped recording I looked through a crack in the fence. Furthermore, I walked to the front yard and I saw him (or her) again carrying the can.


Lawyer: My client was walking outside to water the garden, saw some kind of commotion, noticed a can on the ground by the fence and picked it up. Then proceeded to carry it around the front of the house to properly dispose of it.

Again, if ChrisBex did not actually see the person there is little chance of winning a lawsuit. It this case it would be better not to even have the video and just say that your were looking out a second story window and clearly saw you neighbor Bob spraying the bees over the fence.


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## tanksbees (Jun 16, 2014)

None of this is ever going to court so all the armchair legal advice is kind of pointless.

If you can convince the police to arrest him, or at least show up at his house, do it.

Also, cut your losses and move the hives away from his fence.

Doesn't matter who is right, but I can tell from the way he dealt with the situation that he is the kind of crazy person you don't to be involved with. And as a neighbor you are stuck living next to him.

We have a pretty serious dispute going on in our neighborhood over a tree that got cut down, people can really get nasty and defensive over nothing when it involves their personal space.

Send him a nice letter that says "I am sorry if my bees caused you trouble. I have moved them away from the fence. Please do not spray them, if you have an issue with them please just tell me."

It feels horrible being the nice guy when the other guy is a jerk, but that's often the way to get the best outcome.


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## devil dog (Jul 1, 2014)

You handled it well. violence would have only landed you in jail since they were not on your property.
You can always take him to small claims court and let a JP hear the case if you can't get anything done criminally. You can use the argument that your equipment is now contaminated and unfit for food production. It costs very little to file and I would bet with the video you have the judge hearing the case will find in your favor. 
Letting it go will probably only serve to embolden them. It doesn't appear as though there is any type of friendly relationship at risk of being damaged. It is doubtful they are going to invite you over any time soon for a few beers and steaks on the grill.
Most of the time people will only run over you if they think they can get away with it. No bully fears or respects an appeaser.


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## Boomhawr (Jul 28, 2014)

if it hasn't already been said, you should have held the camera high enough over the fence to see who it was as they where spraying. Otherwise, they may deny it was them, and you may have trouble proving who it was.


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## dixiebooks (Jun 21, 2010)

The kid: Why would the size of the lot matter? Bees fly. What matters is the amount of forage in a 5-mile radius. Or am I missing something?


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## dixiebooks (Jun 21, 2010)

jwcarlson said:


> The whole time I was watching the video I was saying to myself put the camera up over the fence so we can see them! PUT IT UP OVER THE FENCE!!!
> 
> Not sure how you "prove" it was them regardless what you know.
> 
> What terrible neighbors. Are one of you new to the 'hood'?


That's what I was thinking, as well. I don't see any real video evidence. That could have been anyone spraying that.


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## BeeCoolBro (Jun 6, 2015)

Nabber86 said:


> For "legal purposes" you have to convince a judge. The judge does not read Bee Source and has to be impartial. Even if you claimed that you saw your neighbor through the fence (looks like a pretty tight fence to me), the video is not evidence and pretty much worthless. For all the judge knows you could have staged the whole thing to get back at your neighbor for some other feud that has been going on.
> .


Just because the camera doesn't get a good look through the fence doesn't mean the OP didn't get a good look as they would be at different angles and the camera would be focusing on the fence not trying to focus on what was through the cracks. Do you think if your neighbor was standing on the other side of a picket fence you wouldn't be able to tell within a few seconds of peeking it was indeed your neighbor? As long as the OP is credible I can't imagine a judge not believing him, eyewitness testimony sends people to prison even without DNA, fingerprints, and 3 different camera angles despite what some might think. And if the neighbor decides to go with your story about watering the garden and disposing of a found can I would think any decent lawyer would advise against it as lying under oath is perjury, which is a felony.


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## virginiawolf (Feb 18, 2011)

I hope that this works out okay. My first instinct would be talking with my neighbors and trying to see why they would spray my bees and then go from there. If that wasn't an option involving the authorities is a logical next step. Was it an underage person or an adult?


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## craneman54 (Sep 5, 2014)

Bees will fly over the fence not thru it and from what I have read they stay at that height till they have to go higher or they find a source of food or water.

If the guy next door is not the one spraying he is still responsible for damages because someone did it from his side of the property. Could have been one of his kids,his wife or just a friend of his. He is responsible for what goes on on his property.

As for the fence and who owns it. Where I came from you own the fence on one side of the yard (usually the good side facing your yard), the neighbor on the other side of the yard owns that fence also with the good side facing his side of the fence.


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## thehackleguy (Jul 29, 2014)

Nabber86 said:


> Again, if ChrisBex did not actually see the person there is little chance of winning a lawsuit. It this case it would be better not to even have the video and just say that your were looking out a second story window and clearly saw you neighbor Bob spraying the bees over the fence.



Exactly, ChrisBex never said "I didn't see who it was" I could see a person moving in the cracks of the fence in the video so it makes complete sense to me that they could have just peered through the fence. And in my made up story in my head that is what happened....just like in your made up story they have no idea who the mystery neighbor is....We can call them the Evil Spray Can Bandit :lpf: (not to make light of your situation ChrisBex)


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## thehackleguy (Jul 29, 2014)

craneman54 said:


> Bees will fly over the fence not thru it and from what I have read they stay at that height till they have to go higher or they find a source of food or water.
> 
> If the guy next door is not the one spraying he is still responsible for damages because someone did it from his side of the property. Could have been one of his kids,his wife or just a friend of his. He is responsible for what goes on on his property.
> 
> As for the fence and who owns it. Where I came from you own the fence on one side of the yard (usually the good side facing your yard), the neighbor on the other side of the yard owns that fence also with the good side facing his side of the fence.


Your not paying attention! Nabber86 said it....it must be correct, he is a lawyer after all.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

tanksbees said:


> It feels horrible being the nice guy when the other guy is a jerk, but that's often the way to get the best outcome.


I have seen my wife turn a horrible situation around by just smiling and being extra nice time and time again. I wish I could master it. It amazes me how well it works.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

craneman54 said:


> As for the fence and who owns it. Where I came from you own the fence on one side of the yard (usually the good side facing your yard), the neighbor on the other side of the yard owns that fence also with the good side facing his side of the fence.


In NY a fence is supposed to be erected at least 1 foot on to your own property. You own the whole fence. Proper etiquette is to face the finished side toward your neighbor and the framework side toward your own property if there is a difference.


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## DanielD (Jul 21, 2012)

Your neighbor did do something damaging and hateful, but to take revenge would be no better and only make your life there worse. Allowing things to be worked out according to the law would be good, but also show grace to them. I would suggest setting down with the whole family there and explain the value of your bees and the loss you now have because of their actions, and educate them about bees a little. Do it kindly and they may be lead to feel the guilt that is due them and they may leave you alone. I would also consider that they are possibly afraid, or very bothered by the bees and I would attempt to calm the fears some. I live on 23 acres, closest neighbors are 1/4 mile away, and have two hives, and there are more bees around then before we had them. I can imagine your small area and all your hives are a busy place for bees. I bet they are bothered sometimes when they set outside, or a child is scared to death to be in the yard, etc. Bees scare most people. That's a fact. Fears are reduced when you have a bit more knowledge about bees. 
You do have a lot of bees for your small yard. They certainly disregarded you as a neighbor, but you may be doing the same to them with all your bees. 

Proverb - A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger. 

Also- "BUT IF YOUR ENEMY IS HUNGRY, FEED HIM, AND IF HE IS THIRSTY, GIVE HIM A DRINK; FOR IN SO DOING YOU WILL HEAP BURNING COALS ON HIS HEAD."


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

You should send that video to your local TV news station.


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## Farmercal (May 19, 2015)

ChrisBex, DanielD has a good point. Perhaps your neighbor is not very knowledgeable about bees and needs to be educated about their flight patterns, usefulness in pollination, and ability to produce a food source. After talking to them, they might see bees in a different light. They only way to find out is to try communicating with them face to face in a calm manner. Best of luck with this situation.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Farmercal said:


> ChrisBex, DanielD has a good point. Perhaps your neighbor is not very knowledgeable about bees and needs to be educated about their flight patterns, usefulness in pollination, and ability to produce a food source. After talking to them, they might see bees in a different light. They only way to find out is to try communicating with them face to face in a calm manner. Best of luck with this situation.


It's also possible a swarm clustered on the light above her back door a month ago. While taking the dog out in the afternoon she opened the door, knocking a cluster of bees onto her head and face. Her reaction was instinctual, which was to hit/brush whatever it was off of her face. She was stung a dozen times and her eyes were swollen shut for a week.

While we're speculating let's not forget something relatively negative could have happened from the neighbor's bees and she's trying to fix it. We don't know the background, only this snippet of video which doesn't even show the face.

In any event if it's pesticide being sprayed over the fence it's wrong, but that doesn't mean she doesn't have good reason to want to do so. Sometimes being an adult with a neighbor is a tough thing to do. I hope the OP keeps us updated.


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## mcon672 (Mar 5, 2015)

Hard to see how polite conversation is going to solve anything here. Clearly the neighbor is irrational, nosey, self centered and an all around jerk. Probably pretty low on the IQ scale as well. This person trespassed, violated your space, disrespected you, endangered anyone eating your honey (what if you had not seen this and your kids ate the contaminated honey), and destroyed your property. Unforgivable. Take it as far as you can legally and install video cameras for next time. There will be a next time, don't kid yourself.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

DanielD said:


> I bet they are bothered sometimes when they set outside, or a child is scared to death to be in the yard, etc. Bees scare most people. That's a fact. Fears are reduced when you have a bit more knowledge about bees.
> You do have a lot of bees for your small yard. They certainly disregarded you as a neighbor, but you may be doing the same to them with all your bees.



Which was why I asked ChrisBex if he had any communication prior to this event. 

ChrisBex, Please tell us the details on any history (if any) you've had with this neighbor.


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## spencer (Dec 7, 2004)

While what this neighbor did is inexcusable IMHO having 10 hives on a small piece of land isn't the best for making a good neighbor.
I have a 1/2 acre and tried 5 on it one year and had issues with bees in the neighbors pool. 3 seems to be a good number in my situation.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

AstroBee said:


> Which was why I asked ChrisBex if he had any communication prior to this event.
> 
> ChrisBex, Please tell us the details on any history (if any) you've had with this neighbor.


As a rational person I always give most folks the benefit of the doubt for one or two "events". Figuring that they too are rational and will behave as such.
A rational person doesn't spray bug killer over a fence unless they have good reason. Did they have a run in with some of the neighbors bees and try to ask him about it only to be blown off? Told their fears were off base and ignored? We don't know, we have one side of the story is all. If one of my neighbors were to come to me and tell me that my bees stung them while they were mowing or weedwhacking or whatever. Or bothered them while cooking out or had some sort of legitimate issue... I'd screen them in late that night and move them the following morning. They are my property and on my property, but I feel they are the "neighborhood's" bees in the sense that they wouldn't just sting me or just swarm into my trees.

Again, rational people behave differently than whack-os... so there is always that wildcard. But I believe there is probably more to the story.
We have two hives at my brother's house and when relocating a swarm he said "I could put another here." I told him no, we're not going to overstay our welcome at his location. He already has chickens and years worth of split wood piled up. The last thing the neighbors probably want to see is more beehives. And he's on a 2/3 acre lot with large lots surrounding that are over an acre and the houses set on opposite property lines. So the houses are 100+ yards away or close to that. No real concern, but I don't want a swarm landing on someone's car or porch or front door, etc. I couldn't imagine having as many colonies on a property that shares fencelines with neighbors in a "standard" setup where houses are relatively close together.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

jwcarlson said:


> We don't know the background, only this snippet of video which doesn't even show the face.


Yes, I wish the OP would chime in. My only point throughout this thread is that based on the video alone (which is all we have), I don't see how how you could sue or take the person to court. Other than that, a couple of good suggestions have come from this thread.

Call the news. If they aired the video there would be enough local outrage that the guy would think twice (or three times) before trying something like that again. 

Call the police. An officer will come out to check on it if you tell him that somebody is trying to kill your bees, you think it is your neighbor, and you have video. After you tell him your story, he will knock on the guys door and start asking questions. The guy will deny it and the police are not going to do anything about it except file a report (do not expect the guy to be arrested or taken in for questioning). The upside is that the guy will probably be shaken up enough by the police, that he would think twice (or three times) before trying something like that again.


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## Deeohgee (Jun 28, 2015)

My hat is off to you for maintaining your composure. At the very least, you could sue in a small claims court. But, I. like most others commenting on this topic, would recommend retaining the services of an attorney. 
That being said, I noticed you did not get a person's face on the camera, or did I miss this?
Another suggestion, face the entrance of the hives towards the fence, which will redirect the bees from flying over the neighbors yard. Facing the hives towards the fence will cause, in most cases, the bees to fly up and usually back away from the fence. Additionally, add some shelter over them to prevent the spray reaching and filtering down over the hives.


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## MariahK (Dec 28, 2014)

David LaFerney said:


> You should send that video to your local TV news station.


I agree totally with this. as much as bee's have been in the news recently, they would probably cover it. Nothing like a little public shaming to set them right. I bet if news crews start showing up and trying to interview them, they wouldn't like the negative attention.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

Deeohgee said:


> My hat is off to you for maintaining your composure. At the very least, you could sue in a small claims court. But, I. like most others commenting on this topic, would recommend retaining the services of an attorney.


Lawyers are not allowed in small claims court. Source: Judge Wapner


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

Deeohgee said:


> Another suggestion, face the entrance of the hives towards the fence, which will redirect the bees from flying over the neighbors yard. Facing the hives towards the fence will cause, in most cases, the bees to fly up and usually back away from the fence.


Sorry, but I don't believe this is good advice. With the entrances facing the fence the neighbor would be able to get the spray right in the entrances. Not good. As it is the bees still have to go up to forage, so there would be basically no difference. If the neighbor has a hummingbird feeder, you better believe that they will find it no matter which direction they are facing.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

jwcarlson said:


> If one of my neighbors were to come to me and tell me that my bees stung them while they were mowing or weedwhacking or whatever. Or bothered them while cooking out or had some sort of legitimate issue... I'd screen them in late that night and move them the following morning.


As would I. I have 4 locations I keep bees, my house and 3 outyards. If I ever get a complaint I have options, but fortunately I've got great neighbors and have never had serious issues. There have been issues, but always quickly resolved them to everyone's satisfaction. The bees at my house are NOT on property lines nor are they positioned such that flight paths are problems. I've had to select non-optimal bee locations so that I minimize the impact to my neighbors. Despite this, bees are bees, they have few boundaries, so there is always the chance to have issues. The difference often comes down to how the two parties involved respond. 

If this is the very first time these two neighbors have interacted about the bees, then kudoos to ChrisBex for how he responded, but like jwcarlson, I too think there's more to this story. The response to the spray is really what I struggle with. Clearly this is pesticide (would anyone have doubt?), but ChrisBex doesn't say STOP YOU'RE KILLING MY BEES, instead he says "Can I help you?" as the spray is blasting over his hives, and then he says "what did you spray". Its almost like finding the neighbor on your property kicking your dog. "Can I help you" would not be the first words I would use. Maybe this illustrates my shortcomings as a human, but I strongly believe that these two have tangled before. My appologies to ChrisBex if I mischaracterized his actions.


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## Bee Bliss (Jun 9, 2010)

What I noticed was that when the male beek first spoke that the hand with the spray can stopped spraying and moved out of sight quickly and at the same time I thought I could her a woman's voice say something like "oooh". Then as he moved towards the fence it seemed like the spraying started again moving away from his direction. That tells me volumes. You could hear when the spraying was going on both times. What gall the woman neighbor had! Tells me that she won't quit unless you get the police involved. You report it and they will talk to her. They may give advice to both beekeeper and neighbor. Hope things can be resolved. One last thing, you needed to lift the camera up to capture video of the person with the can in their hand just after spraying. Why didn't you?

I also noticed wide gaps that I feel would allow someone to see enough of a moving person to be able to identify them. Ever notice how much of a yard you can really see when moving along a fence? Whose fence is it?

I am also thinking that 10 hives on a city lot is too much. Maybe it is time to find a second bee yard. Ask the other neighbors if your bees are bothering them.

I would move the hives a bit, but also think that a section of plexiglass would allow light, etc. to the area but prevent spraying hives directly. And, reduce the number of hives.


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## Arnie (Jan 30, 2014)

It pains me to admit it, but this is something my crazy old aunt would have done. She was not crazy in an endearing way, she was downright mean crazy. She fought with her neighbors all the time.

So while you might be able to meet with them and nicely explain that the bees are in trouble, they are not going to attack them, bees and wasps will be around even after you move your hives etc etc, you might not be successful.

You may be well within your rights to have your bees in your yard, but there's a chance the brain damage from dealing with loony neighbors is not worth it. And if you escalate it by involving the authorities it might bring out the full-bore crazy.

Good luck to you.


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## ericweller (Jan 10, 2013)

shinbone said:


> No doubt a video of the person's face would be best, but the OP was there when it happened. He will be able to confirm who was doing the spraying, if he saw the perpetrator or spoke to him/her, etc. But, I agree, the bare video is not enough, by itself, to support a criminal prosecution.
> 
> JMHO


That may be true however, when the officer questioned the neighbor and they acknowledged the act, you could still win the case even if the video didn't show the person actually doing it. Read the police report and see what it says.


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## whiskers (Aug 28, 2011)

A letter from a lawyer, or a visit by the police, or both, to the neighbor that explains the penalties, both legal and civil, that can result from this sort of activity can be helpful. No accusation need be made, just a recommendation that the neighbor guard against this happening, since they are responsible to some degree for any attack that originates from there.
Bill


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## NewbeeInNH (Jul 10, 2012)

When neighbors have lack of boundary issues, you really need to get the law involved to protect yourself. To spray boldly like that over the fence is way over the line. Not to mention ruining this person's honey crop, and maybe even his entire equipment and bee stock, depending on what else this neighbor may have been up to.


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## Dan P (Oct 29, 2014)

What did the law man say ?? I believe they are still liable if it was them or not. Its about intent even to the point of allowing someone else to go on there land to do it.


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## DrJeseuss (May 28, 2015)

any updates on this?


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## ChrisBex (Jul 24, 2014)

I have some updates on this crazy ordeal.

Tuesday two gentlemen came to my house upon calling the Mississippi Department of Agriculture on Monday morning. I have to say that this agency takes these matters VERY seriously. In 24 hours they sent someone to my house to investigate my claims. I think giving the gentleman on the phone the link to the video kind of escalated the situation, in my mind anyways.

I attached an image of the documents that we proceeded to go over and assess. I blacked out some information for obvious reasons. I don't wish to have care packages, teddy bears in bee outfits, and a poster of a cat hanging on a limb, delivered to my house inch:










A picture is worth a thousand words. I don't really want to get into anymore details until they call me back with some "results" and the police officer has his report ready. I keep calling every day and asking for this dang police report, but I still get the run around. I guess he's busy eating at Subway since I saw him walking out of the gas station with a small cookie bag today. I will say this though, the state inspectors did go over and interrogate my neighbor on her actions for over 45 minutes. When they returned from her house they told me that she did indeed confirm it was she who sprayed my hives. Also the police officer said the same thing when he spoke with her on Monday, so I hope to see this reflected on his report.

For some of the people asking if the neighbor and I had any previous contact, the answer is yes. They called animal control this past March when they were putting up a privacy fence around their back yard since they only have to do the front and the back because my other neighbor and I have our yard fenced in already. They tried to attach their fence to mine, and I put a halt to that. My fence is also a foot on my property line... Off topic... anyways... They were digging footers for the 4x4 posts and the noise/vibrations caused my bees, Russians from Coy Honey Farms, to gently fly over and bump them. 

Okay, maybe not gently, but they came to my house claiming my bees "bit" them. I saw no physical evidence of a sting mark, welt, or blemish on the spots they pointed out to me. I kindly asked them what they wanted me to do and they suggested smoking them. I agreed to smoke them and told them it's not a permanent solution and that the smoke just temporarily calms them. The hives were located a couple inches from the fence.

After this fence fiasco, the animal control employee came to my house two days later and asked some questions and agreed with me that there is no law or ordinance restricting beekeeping at my residence. The animal control guy told me that he was allergic to bees and really didn't want to go in the backyard to look at my hives. He did ask me if I had any honey, and when I did get some to give him a call because he wanted some. I also asked him to forward me any bee problems that people might have in our city so I could either remove them or find an alternative way of removing them, and I have had several calls already this year. With animal control's advice we agreed that I would move my hives further from the fence. I moved them 3 feet off the fence making them easier to work with. I built the hive stands they're sitting on now rather than cider blocks I previously had. I used to work the hives from the side, but now with my new stands I work them from the back and started using screen bottoms for beetle control/oil trays and mite counting.

I hope to post back when I get the police report. I'm still weighing my options on actions to take with my neighbors. I might just settle with a lesson learned, even if they learn it the hard way.


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## Planethill (Jun 8, 2015)

Wow! Bravo! 

I'm just a Newb, but when I saw that video it made MY blood boil and even that of my wife's (who thinks this whole bee business is just a passing phase.  )

Good for you for calling in the cavalry. And keep us updated!


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## flyin-lowe (May 15, 2014)

I work in law enforcement and can tell you in Indiana the actual police report is not public record and we don't not release them to anyone without a court order. I am not sure about your State. So that might be why you are getting the run around. We tell people up front that they cannot have them so I am not sure what you have been told. I am assuming you have not noticed any catastrophic losses yet? Not trying to down play the issue, I am hoping your hive appears to be OK so far?


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## lemmje (Feb 23, 2015)

flyin-lowe said:


> I am assuming you have not noticed any catastrophic losses yet? Not trying to down play the issue


Broken Window theory. That action has to end now regardless of actual realized damage.


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## BeeBop (Apr 23, 2015)

flyin-lowe said:


> I work in law enforcement and can tell you in Indiana the actual police report is not public record and we don't not release them to anyone without a court order. I am not sure about your State. So that might be why you are getting the run around. We tell people up front that they cannot have them so I am not sure what you have been told.


Wow. In California police reports are public record and you can get a copy after paying a minimal processing fee. ($25?)
Not being able to obtain a copy of a police report if you are one of the individuals named in the report would be... creepy. In any state.


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## GSkip (Dec 28, 2014)

BeeBop said:


> Wow. In California police reports are public record and you can get a copy after paying a minimal processing fee. ($25?)
> Not being able to obtain a copy of a police report if you are one of the individuals named in the report would be... creepy. In any state.


I'm also a LEO, at my agency (in Florida) if you are the victim, suspect or a witness named in the report we provide you a copy upon request. If it is in our system it is available through a public records request. When I was an investigator I kept the report in a word doc and only placed it in the data base once it was ready to present to the State Attorney or upon the arrest of a suspect. They may not be able to provide you a copy yet due to the investigation being incomplete. The investigator may have 15 or 20 active cases he is trying to work, plus court dates, depositions, extra duties and a family. Hang in there I'm confident they are working it.


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## flyin-lowe (May 15, 2014)

In Indiana the only thing we provide to anyone is what we call a "crime summary" or "media report". They are required by law but it just lists the victim, suspect, and a brief one line sentence saying what is being investigated. I guess it all boils down to what we are used to. When I investigate a crime the police report is full of information, witness statements, victim statements, etc. I would not want all of that info floating around out there for everyone to see. I am guessing the parties involved would not want that information floating around as well.


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## TWall (May 19, 2010)

The thing that will cause this person the most problems is the illegal application of an insecticide.

Tom


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## burns375 (Jul 15, 2013)

ChrisBex said:


> Tuesday two gentlemen came to my house upon calling the Mississippi Department of Agriculture on Monday morning. I have to say that this agency takes these matters VERY seriously. In 24 hours they sent someone to my house to investigate my claims. I think giving the gentleman on the phone the link to the video kind of escalated the situation, in my mind anyways.


Good to hear the state takes this seriously as they should. The video says it all. 

Did they interview your neighbor? Have you talked with them?


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## woodedareas (Sep 10, 2010)

So what affect did the spraying have on any of your hives. Do you know what was sprayed?


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## TWall (May 19, 2010)

Any update?

Tom


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## brettj777 (Feb 27, 2013)

ChrisBex said:


> I finally found out why my colonies are on the decline ever since spring started.


I was so angry when I saw this. UNREAL. I certainly hope you nail them to the wall and make them pay triple damages! Seriously do NOT go soft on this one.

please don't go soft on this one...


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## ChrisBex (Jul 24, 2014)

Was reading the paper today and seen this. I didn't black anything out since this is public information.










I will be attending the next town meeting and discussing this issue with the board. I will also invite fellow beekeepers in the local community with an advertisement in the newspaper and the members of my bee club. I attempted to call the city attorney to discuss my situation with him, but he was out of the office. My wife wants to get the local news involved, but I don't want to play that hand just yet.


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## Arnie (Jan 30, 2014)

I don't know who Abell is in that story but I like the use of "endangered honey bees." It's overstated in my view, but it gets you some support. The bees are now appreciated more after all the CCD news. 

Good luck.


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## burns375 (Jul 15, 2013)

Was the report from your neighbor? Attack of the bitting bees !!?? 

My neighbor on the left was very fearful at first, mental fear. No-one every got stung. They complained several times. After 2 years they finally got over it. I think what worked is when the husband came over, somewhat upset but expressing his concerns. I took him back to the hives. I spoke very calmly. I showed him the hives. I walked right up to them, we stood there for many minutes talking. I think that really eased his fear. He saw how close the hives were to the house and to where i do woodworking and projects. 

My hives are only about 15 feet from my backdoor. They are located almost exactly where the marker is. 
Google Map of property.


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## marshmasterpat (Jun 26, 2013)

Been watching this from the beginning. The neighbor was wrong and should have to dance out the tune they asked the fiddler to play. However, that many hives in a small lot, that is overdoing it. Plain and simple. You have more bees than I and I have 3+ acres on the edge of town, that has me nervous about causing issues. Remember it takes two to tango. You need to spread those hives around the area. 

I love dogs, had dogs growing up, hunted with dogs (nothing more enjoyable that hunting with dogs, retrievers, pointers, hounds, whatever), but I like obedient dogs that listen. However my daughter when younger was terrified of dogs, especially bigs ones, even more so big ones that jump on her. Nothing makes my blood boil more than a dog owner laughing while a kids screams in terror about a overly friendly dog or an owner that says they will not bite as the dog nips at you or is snarling at you. At that point the dog and the owner are playing with my loved one's well being. And there are no lines that I will not cross to protect mine. Pit bulls are wonderful pets and so are chows. However, it you have one that is causing problems, you are part the problem and is true for any dog. 

Responsibility goes hand in hand with ownership (bee or dog ownership). Remember, lots of the average public are still scared of stinging insects. Whether honey bees are in trouble or not, having them crash their party during a drought for kool-aid or sweets is scary to people. Remember with 10 hives you are pushing 200,000 bees into the local area. If they are strong hives, it could be double. 

Revisit your long term plan. I will have out yards before I put 20 in the back acreage and there is horse pasture on 2 sides of me. Maybe I am chicken and want to avoid conflict with the neighbors but lots of issues can be solved by just being prudent. But being a responsible neighbor means thinking about what you do is impacting the neighbors in my mind. 

And I hope she gets ticketed for something. And I also hope the town does not decide to place ordinances in place because of this. Her story hit the paper first and more people relate. Good Luck.


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## DanielD (Jul 21, 2012)

Burns, you're endangering a lot of people there.  I would say your approach is good with your neighbors. They can become more of a supporter of your bees than you. 

Chris, I also think you can pursue the legal means since these neighbors did what they did, but still attempt the calm educational approach as well. No matter what, you have to be her neighbor for a while. The neighbor probably sees trouble coming ahead and went to the city council in attempt to get ahead of it. I am thinking she's drawing attention to herself that will bite in the end.


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## burns375 (Jul 15, 2013)

DanielD said:


> Burns, you're endangering a lot of people there.  I would say your approach is good with your neighbors. They can become more of a supporter of your bees than you.


Oh yeah they are viscous. Its funny, if you look northeast of my house there is a massive private pool called lakeside. An old limestonequarry from the 1900's they cemented in during the late 1930's when they began building houses. Well i see bees there all the time drinking water. I always wonder if they are mine. But there are alot of hives in the neighborhood, atleast 10 within a sq mile that i know of. 

I've been stung a few times while mowing, but thats about it. I have 3 full size hives at my house. And another 26 hives out near the ohio river on a larger property. I think 4 is the max i would keep year long at my house (lots are too small), in spring i have 10-15 mating nucs but they are small


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## ChrisBex (Jul 24, 2014)

marshmasterpat said:


> However, that many hives in a small lot, that is overdoing it. Plain and simple.


This many hives is normal for my area. I live on the edge of wetlands and 90% of the bees that are in my apiary were located from other neighbors houses/swarms in the area, think closer to 1 mile radius (seriously). My only bought bees are Russians from the Coy's, which I graft from. I bought a package from a gentleman in Florida through beesource last year, but the winter killed them. I put up a sign for bee removal at the main road entrance and I get 2-3 calls every week for removals. I actually have a removal tomorrow (Sunday), for a lady 1/4 mile north of me, if it doesn't rain.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Well, all those colonies spread out over a one mile radius is way different than them located in a 100 foot radius and you know that. You can't be just a beekeeper, you must, to an extent be a good neighbor too. 

If one of my neighbors has a legitimate issue with my bees they are gone that night or the following morning. It isn't worth making enemies.


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## the kid (Nov 26, 2006)

dixiebooks said:


> The kid: Why would the size of the lot matter? Bees fly. What matters is the amount of forage in a 5-mile radius. Or am I missing something?


10 hives in that small yard ,,,is a lot of bees flying.. if i was next to him ,, i would be ok with it ,, find someone with 10 hives and walk back and forth all around them and all over the raides with in and as close as 10 feet from them .... he has a fence yes but are they coming down after the fence ?????????????


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## mountainmanbob (Jun 3, 2015)

scrape some paint off one of the covers and have it analyzed for poison.
Mountainman


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

The way the last paragraph in the article is written sounds as if the city council thinks Ann Walker is the nuisance. :lpf:

Alex


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## tanksbees (Jun 16, 2014)

Anyone who claims that they were "bit" by a honey bee has obviously never been stung.

The stinger left behind would be a dead giveaway


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

My sympathies. Glad you filed charge, and boy that video is priceless.


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## my2cents (Jul 9, 2015)

I have been reading and following this thread from the beginning. I agree with a lot of the comments, too many, too close.
Recently, a commercial beek was keeping bees on my vacant land. It is in the rural area. One house was across the road from my property. 
He placed approximately 70 hives on the Gall Berry flow. The neighbor across the road had a pond dug. The summer was hot and the bees were flying to the neighbors water hole.
We discussed it and after the flow, the hives were removed. 
When he returned with the hives again, we moved them 1/2 mile further down the road to my homestead property. No more problems from the neighbor and got the results expected.
Living in a suburb is not conducing to bees. 
This is not condoning the actions of your neighbor.
Why do you not find a place in a more rural area to keep your bees?
And I do hope your neighbor is punished in the wake of her poor judgment.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

tanksbees said:


> Anyone who claims that they were "bit" by a honey bee has obviously never been stung.


Many people who are afraid of bees and don't have them use the term "bit" when they get stung. What ever term they use it is obvious if they get stung even if you don't find a stinger. There is usually pain and swelling.


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## DrJeseuss (May 28, 2015)

I'm on a fence here... If the law says he can have bees and he wants 10 hives in the back yard, good for him, nobody else's business... On the other hand, if I had a neighbor with 40 hound dogs barking all the time, legal or not it would bother me to no end. My point is that I like bees so it's tough to see them as a problem, but not all see things the same way. Legal does not always equal neighborly. In the situation I believe I'd choose the hives over annoying neighbors I never talked to anyway, but I'd also know trouble would be sure to follow. Good luck either way things go.


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## burns375 (Jul 15, 2013)

Even if he had too many hives, the neighbors did the wrong thing (illegal IMO). If the neighbors trully had a nuisance the proper authorities should have been contacted. Taken action into their own hands by spraying the hives is down right wrong.


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## the kid (Nov 26, 2006)

burns375 said:


> Even if he had too many hives, the neighbors did the wrong thing (illegal IMO). If the neighbors trully had a nuisance the proper authorities should have been contacted. Taken action into their own hands by spraying the hives is down right wrong.


right do not get me wrong If the neighbors had probulums with the girls she should have talked to him ,, and if they didnt work it out then they should go to city ,,, but 10 in that small lot is a lot of bees .. 

if there was no stinger I would say not a honey bee ,, but would they know one ( stinger ) or not ,, or even look for one


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## brettj777 (Feb 27, 2013)

Nabber86 said:


> For "legal purposes" you have to convince a judge. The judge does not read Bee Source and has to be impartial. Even if you claimed that you saw your neighbor through the fence (looks like a pretty tight fence to me), the video is not evidence and pretty much worthless. For all the judge knows you could have staged the whole thing to get back at your neighbor for some other feud that has been going on.


Nabber86 please go back into your Mother's Basement and watch more Perry Mason. Seriously? Also since the OP now has a neighbor (the Hand) complaining of bees....it's very easy to correlate those facts.

You aren't a lawyer so don't try to play one. There is testimony and supporting video. Is it a slam dunk..no they usually aren't.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

brettj777 said:


> Is it a slam dunk..no they usually aren't.



Yes, it is a slam dunk because the neighbor admitted it. Without that, things would not be so easy. 




ChrisBex said:


> When they returned from her house they told me that *she did indeed confirm it was she who sprayed my hives*. Also the police officer said the same thing when he spoke with her on Monday, so I hope to see this reflected on his report.


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## tanksbees (Jun 16, 2014)

The problem with all this is that the police will likely do nothing even though she admitted to the crime. They are just waiting for things to blow over and trying not to piss you off by not acting.

The punishment is likely too harsh for the crime - might even be a felony, which is probably why they don't want to charge, and a DA wouldn't want to prosecute. Selective enforcement of laws.

One option might be to push to get a restraining order against her - this might be highly advantageous to you should she cause you any more trouble, and would ensure that if she oversteps boundaries in the future that she ends up in jail.

If they don't take you seriously, you may want to cite a "pattern of escalation" - unfriendliness, whatever other things happened before, which has now which has escalated to her overstepping boundaries and attempting to harm your livestock, and that you are trying to prevent a worse situation from unfolding. Now your wife feels scared, you are worried she will poison your dog next, that kind of thing. Maybe she made some nasty comments after the incident, or some threats, whatever it might be.


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## brettj777 (Feb 27, 2013)

As to the "too many in your yard". Most commercial beeks run 20-40 hives in a drop zone.

If his bees are productive and doing fine....then apparently it's not "too many" in one area. Many zoning rules about beekeeping limit most residential yards to 2 or 3 hives, not for the benefit of the bee or the keeper, but to assuage teh fears of the neighbors.

If he can sustain it, then it must not be all that bad!


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

brettj777 said:


> As to the "too many in your yard". Most commercial beeks run 20-40 hives in a drop zone.
> 
> If his bees are productive and doing fine....then apparently it's not "too many" in one area. Many zoning rules about beekeeping limit most residential yards to 2 or 3 hives, not for the benefit of the bee or the keeper, but to assuage teh fears of the neighbors.
> 
> If he can sustain it, then it must not be all that bad!


"Too Many" as in too many to be in that populated of an area in a normal sized backyard in "town". Just because it's legal and just because the bees aren't starving doesn't mean it is the right thing to do. Why do disputes about neighbors seem to end with cops, judges, court, suing, etc now? If my neighbors had an issue with me they'd talk to me about it. If I had an issue with them, I'd talk to them about it. If one of my neighbors plopped 10 beehives in his yard just on the other side of my privacy fence I wouldn't be terribly ecstatic about it and I'm a beekeeper. OP says there has been other interaction with this neighbor in the past. For all we know he told her to pound sand when she brought up her concern and he's reaping the fallout from that decision. 

Look at it from the other side of the fence. What his neighbor did was wrong, but we don't know is all of the other things that lead up to this event. The reason rules limit beehive numbers is because of guys like the OP who stretch what should be reasonable to the average person. I wouldn't want 10 beehives in my yard, I wouldn't want my neighbor to have 10 in his yard. There should be mutual understanding among grown adults. You don't jackhammer your driveway at 1 AM, you don't mow on the weekend at 6 AM. You don't run your table saw until midnight, you're not blaring music at all hours of the day. There aren't laws restricting these things always... it's called being a good person and a respectful neighbor.


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

Don't forget to add $3million for potential lung / nerve / respiratory damage / other future damages, and punitive damages as well. Your attorney will have advice on amounts, etc. I hope you take her house!


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## mountainmanbob (Jun 3, 2015)

if it's legal and I wish to do it then it is the right thing to do.

as seen from up top the mountain

Mountainman


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## gnor (Jun 3, 2015)

ChrisBex said:


> I found this today. If anyone with lawyer jargon can dissect this for me.
> 
> http://law.justia.com/codes/mississippi/2013/title-95/chapter-3/section-95-3-29


Pretty sure what that means is that if you have been beekeeping there for more than one year, they can't sue you to stop doing that, or other nuisance lawsuits.


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## gnor (Jun 3, 2015)

I've had my share of (____) neighbors too. (insert crazy, dumb, mean, etc.) Maybe the best thing is to put this to bed as soon as possible, because things like this can go on for years, and make your life miserable, even if you are in the right. Cops are usually pretty good arbitrators in something like this, and maybe one of them could explain that what she did was wrong, and against the law, and leave it like that. On your part, maybe you should try to mend fences if you can, starting with a generous supply of honey. Explain that you feel you both got off on the wrong foot, and good neighbors are better than open warfare. Offer them a tour, if you have extra suits, and show them that bees aren't mean by nature.
If that doesn't work, at least you can live in peace, knowing that you have made the effort.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

gnor said:


> Pretty sure what that means is that if you have been beekeeping there for more than one year, they can't sue you to stop doing that, or other nuisance lawsuits.


Only if you are a legit agricultural operation. Very few people keeping bees in a suburban location do not qualify as such.


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## sweatybetty (Apr 24, 2015)

gnor said:


> On your part, maybe you should try to mend fences if you can,
> If that doesn't work, at least you can live in peace, knowing that you have made the effort.


probably the best advice yet


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## Teht (Apr 21, 2015)

Yes, give her your next batch of honey, including whatever made it into the batch from her spraying... :banana:


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## jjohnsind (Apr 24, 2014)

Entertaining thread so far and I hope things work out. I'll throw in my 2 cents though; IF I had a neighbor that objected to bees, I certainly wouldn't put my hive a couple of feet from our shared property line. Being right by law doesn't mean its the right thing to do. Maybe its just me, but I consider neighbors at a personal level along the lines of my family and close friends so I made an effort to consider what they might have thought when i decided to get bees. I know not all neighbors are "neighborly", but I don't want to be the one that gets things started.

I certainly don't agree with this neighbor spraying like that, but they certainly wouldn't have even had the opportunity to do so if the hives were on the OTHER side of the property. For that matter, they might not even have noticed that there were bees around if the bees were located away from their property line. I know I personally passed on ideal locations in our yard to find a spot as far away from neighbors and as inconspicuous as possible. No complaints so far, but I'm not sure any neighbors even know I have bees!


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## gnor (Jun 3, 2015)

Nabber86 said:


> Only if you are a legit agricultural operation. Very few people keeping bees in a suburban location do not qualify as such.


I'm a registered beekeeper in Nova Scotia. That qualifies me for the same compensation as a "legit ag operation" for compensation due to bears, vandalism, wind, and so on. It depends on state and local laws where you live.


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## gnor (Jun 3, 2015)

Double post. Forum is a bit buggy this AM.


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## mountainmanbob (Jun 3, 2015)

gnor said:


> Offer them a tour, if you have extra suits, and show them that bees aren't mean by nature.
> If that doesn't work, at least you can live in peace, knowing that you have made the effort.


My bet is that a guided tour will not be in order.
Any neighbor that would spray another's bees is probably way out there in left field and possibly slightly twisted.
MB


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

gnor said:


> I'm a registered beekeeper in Nova Scotia. That qualifies me for the same compensation as a "legit ag operation" for compensation due to bears, vandalism, wind, and so on. It depends on state and local laws where you live.


People keep citing the US Right to Farm Act as a reason that nobody can stop them from keeping bees in a suburban or even urban area. I have also seen people here talking about suing their HOA because they are not allowed keep bees. It just doesn't work that way. 

I don't know anything about how Nova Scotia works.


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

Nabber86 said:


> People keep citing the US Right to Farm Act as a reason that nobody can stop them from keeping bees in a suburban or even urban area.


That's because they can't be bothered to read the Act as adopted in their state to determine what qualifies as a farm or agricultural operation. People hear "Right to Farm" and think growing some tomatoes and keeping a bee hive makes them farmers.

I rent a house on a qualifying farm but my few hives, my small flock of chickens and my big garden would not qualify my efforts as an agricultural operation.

All states have some form of a RTF act. I'd suggest that before claiming their "right," people check to see if they actually have that right. http://nationalaglawcenter.org/state-compilations/right-to-farm/

Wayne


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## DrJeseuss (May 28, 2015)

None of that matters here in this post. The OP has no law limiting or preventing keeping hives in his yard. There are laws about trespassing and proper pesticide usage. There are two issues at hand. The OP is choosing his interests over his neighbor's fears, which he has a right to do, and the neighbor is citing these hives as a nuisance, which in their present configuration they may be. What wouldn't be uncommon is to see the HOA or town to generate a law or rule to apply limits on keeping bees. Sadly that's what this nation had become in many places, 'sue thy neighbor'. Personally I don't think laws should be made after the fact to limit our lives. Both people involved have an opinion, and should work this out as neighbors, as people. However, the spraying was illegal and should be dealt with regardless of their motivations. If my neighbor keeps me up late with loud music I can't go over there and shoot him for it, doesn't work that way.


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## the kid (Nov 26, 2006)

like I said befor to small of a lot ,, BUT she should not have sprayed the hives ,,,, But I myself would not want Russian bees in my own hives much less 10 hives next door ,, they are a bit to stingy for me


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## NewbeeInNH (Jul 10, 2012)

the kid said:


> like I said befor to small of a lot ,, BUT she should not have sprayed the hives ,,,, But I myself would not want Russian bees in my own hives much less 10 hives next door ,, they are a bit to stingy for me


Really? I run Russians and I've never noticed them being testy, and I don't even use a smoker. I do suit up tho.


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## the kid (Nov 26, 2006)

I have Carniolan Bees and for 9 years I only suited up 3 times ,,, nor has the wife 2 daughters ,3 sons and the 12 oldest grand kids ,, and they all ways help with the hives ,, in fact the grand kids play with in 3 feet of in front of the hives ,, and I'm not gentle when I go in a hive and I open the hives way to often


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## NewbeeInNH (Jul 10, 2012)

Wow.


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## trinity (Jun 25, 2015)

ChrisBex, any new developments?


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## hagane (Aug 15, 2015)

I would more accurately define your damages though; for example...

replacement costs of nukes - not only did you lose the strong colonies (which are different from starter colonies ); Nuc cost x number of colonies killed in the past year ( or two ). If they argue you can't show and prove how many are natural hive deaths and their murderous intent you can take the difference between a normal hive failure rate per beekeeper from the current higher fail rate of hive deaths per year....it's reasonable and factual. You can also account for the difference in price of what a strong hive would sell for that's (defined strong by not being a starter colony anymore but already of sufficient strength of its own to thrive ) different from the selling price of a starter nuc. Also pointing out the difference in your average losses and current losses can be used to prove and show that they have done this more than once, which they would have if your hive failure rate is a spiked higher figure than normal.

Plus use of feed for 1 year in all killed hives, including other supplies,
Cost of the honey loss I think would be more accurate to say ; Cost of honey sales x the average lifetime of a hive ( and not just this year ). If you really wanted to get technical you could even minus how old the hive was, with at least a 1 year minimum x the honey yield x the price per honey. 

Plus the hidden cost of replacing the wooden hives themselves. Because bees are chemically sensitive, it's reasonable to account for having to replace the hives because you may not be able to reuse them for the hives that died because of residual chemical buildup in the hives. They may argue they didn't use that much chemical but the problem is they'd be going with what a human can take, and not chemically sensitive bees. (If they argue your hives were home made and that isn't cost to you, you'd still have to argue for lumber costs, and what you think your labor time would be to build them from the lumber.)

Plus another hidden cost to you here is the cost of moving your bees to another yard. ( the total cost of labor, and gas to set up another bee yard ). Plus the other hidden cost of obtaining a bee yard itself.

You would strengthen your case by showing you did adequate research to show your enterprise was lawful and you were keeping the laws of the land. 

You might even look into if home owner's insurance policies covers vandalism ... but that can get tricky. If you try to do that on your own without knowing how they might try to disqualify a claim based on not meeting certain criteria that could be a problem too. I'd maybe consult someone on how to formulate a case to your homeowners insurance and even make sure its even covered in the policy. Some states and some areas might not have coverage for certain things. 

Hope that helps. I don't want you to have a fight with them, but as the victim it's important to protect yourself and not go down with the ship. I hope it works out for you and you can message me if you need to. I'm not a bee expert, nor a legal expert, but if you need help figuring stuff out I am a very logical thinker. I'm unfortunately, also aware of how awful humans sometimes treat each other. Also if they get away with it, they may just retaliate somehow, and this presents a bigger problem. 

Isn't it interesting how a lot of the Scriptures and the Bible are teaching us how to treat each other much like bees do? (Equality, Everyone has a role, Self sufficiency, Helping each other to survive)


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## DanielD (Jul 21, 2012)

> Isn't it interesting how a lot of the Scriptures and the Bible are teaching us how to treat each other much like bees do? (Equality, Everyone has a role, Self sufficiency, Helping each other to survive)


But the bees don't have the same nature as man, and they dont have a will of their own. They always do what they do.


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## kevindsingleton (Jun 6, 2014)

Nabber86 said:


> Only if you are a legit agricultural operation. Very few people keeping bees in a suburban location do not qualify as such.


Pretty straightforward, in Pennsylvania:

“Normal agricultural operation.”
The activities, practices, equipment and procedures
that farmers adopt, use or engage in the production and preparation for market of
poultry, livestock and their products and in the production, harvesting and preparation
for market or use of agricultural, agronomic, horticultural, silvicultural and aquacultural
crops and commoditi
es and is:
(1) not less than ten contiguous acres in area; or
(2) less than ten contiguous acres in area but has an anticipated yearly gross
income of at least $10,000. 

Everyone should look up the law in your state. It could become very important, someday.


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## DavidZ (Apr 9, 2016)

8 months later....what was the final outcome if anything?


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## sc-bee (May 10, 2005)

So any update on this???


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## RyanD (May 7, 2015)

I've been keeping up with this thread as well sc-bee. Any updates?


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

Let me tell you how I would tally up the damages. 100 lbs of honey per colony at $8 a lb. and I can prove a track record of selling it at that price. $350 per colony for the bees alone. So we are now at $1150 per colony. Then the damaged equipment that has now been bathed in insecticide. A bottom board deep brood box inner and outer cover is $80 and each box above that is another $40. So another $120 to $160 per colony. We are at what now. around $1300 or so per colony? and I can support my claim to the value of each component. The neighbor would have to present evidence to the contrary.


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## philip.devos (Aug 10, 2013)

The General said:


> Sue him in a Civil suit.
> 
> With the statements that you have that keeping bees is acceptable in your location and with video evidence along with a police report of him vandalizing your bees, you should have an easy victory. Sue him for triple the costs of what you think you lost plus lawyer fees.
> 
> Lawyer up and make him pay.


I agree with making this a civil (not criminal) action. A criminal case will get you nowhere.


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## hilreal (Aug 16, 2005)

I am pretty sure that is "off label" and an illegal use of the pesticide. Call your state regulatory agency or contact the EPA.


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

As many have said - You reacted well - way better than I would have - I would at first reached over the fence while he was spraying and grabbed his arm - then tried to drag his ***** over the fence or I would have went over/through it. Boy the nerve of some people. Again - you did better that I would have.


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## Nugget Shooter (Mar 28, 2016)

Agreed and I commend your calmness so to speak, I would have gotten a trip to jail likely. Anyway also agree that civil is the best way to go and you will likely win.


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

I have done the civil thing - and won a judgment against the other party - guess what I got - an IOU - no way to enforce him paying for damages - and it cost me 200$ to take him to court. it expired after 10 years so civil is just pissing in the wind.
While I agree the neighbor done wrong - I'm going to play the devil here - Do they have a pool next door that the bees are using as a watering hole? I moved 24 hives into a neighborhood 1 time in an emergency. 2 weeks later had a neighbor come knocking telling me her pool was unusable due to all the bees - checked the beeyard and had bees on flight like it was a honeyflow - running back/forth to the pool for water. I promptly moved them that night. 
Just saying


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## Coach62 (Mar 26, 2016)

philip.devos said:


> I agree with making this a civil (not criminal) action. A criminal case will get you nowhere.


I disagree, do both.


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## Coach62 (Mar 26, 2016)

sakhoney said:


> I have done the civil thing - and won a judgment against the other party - guess what I got - an IOU - no way to enforce him paying for damages - and it cost me 200$ to take him to court. it expired after 10 years so civil is just pissing in the wind.
> While I agree the neighbor done wrong - I'm going to play the devil here - Do they have a pool next door that the bees are using as a watering hole? I moved 24 hives into a neighborhood 1 time in an emergency. 2 weeks later had a neighbor come knocking telling me her pool was unusable due to all the bees - checked the beeyard and had bees on flight like it was a honeyflow - running back/forth to the pool for water. I promptly moved them that night.
> Just saying


Sak, I've won civil judgments before, and collecting is easy as long as they have a job. All you have to do is find out where they work and garnish their wages.

He should be able to get punitive damages on top of actual since this was clearly intentional. He also needs to find out what he was spraying. The jerk could claim he was just spraying hairspray.


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

self employed house framer


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## D Coates (Jan 6, 2006)

You've still got to live next to them. Ramping it up will only bring retaliation, harder feelings, and even worse relations. Where does it end and how's that thinking working out between the Jews and the Palestinians? Don't get me wrong, I'd have been mad as heck too and I'd have let it be known. But, I'm certain the neighbor is very embarrassed about getting caught red handed. Try to mend the fence, or sell the house. You'll never appreciate a good neighbor until you've got a bad one.

sakhoney has a good point, his bees were disturbing his neighbor, the neighbor was good enough let him know and he was smart enough to do something about it immediately. Imagine this neighbor got stung walking barefoot in the grass or swimming in the pool. Didn't say anything just wanted to get "even" and thus the ball got rolling, straight into a minefield.


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## Nugget Shooter (Mar 28, 2016)

I was sued by a guy I took out to teach how to metal detect for gold nuggets (my main income hunting, teaching, and selling equipment) and he had fallen into a cholla cactus and had to seek medical care. Because I drove him to the location instead of having him drive his own vehicle I was found at fault (go figure) and was ordered to pat 346.00 in medical bills.... I tried to find a way out, but was advised by my lawyer that they would garnish my pay/income to force payment and freeze my bank account. So I grudgingly payed the guy when it was not in any way my fault.

Thing is I was forced to pay due to the judgement so it can indeed be collected and my attempt at an "IOU" was nuked....


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

hilreal said:


> I am pretty sure that is "off label" and an illegal use of the pesticide. Call your state regulatory agency or contact the EPA.


You don't even know what pesticide was being sprayed and yet you are pretty sure that it is "off label" use.


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## Coach62 (Mar 26, 2016)

D Coates said:


> You've still got to live next to them. Ramping it up will only bring retaliation, harder feelings, and even worse relations. Where does it end and how's that thinking working out between the Jews and the Palestinians? Don't get me wrong, I'd have been mad as heck too and I'd have let it be known. But, I'm certain the neighbor is very embarrassed about getting caught red handed. Try to mend the fence, or sell the house. You'll never appreciate a good neighbor until you've got a bad one.
> 
> sakhoney has a good point, his bees were disturbing his neighbor, the neighbor was good enough let him know and he was smart enough to do something about it immediately. Imagine this neighbor got stung walking barefoot in the grass or swimming in the pool. Didn't say anything just wanted to get "even" and thus the ball got rolling, straight into a minefield.


I completely disagree. Letting bad behavior go simply encourages more bad behavior.

Seriously, retaliation? That's what cops and the law is for.


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## Aroc (May 18, 2016)

Everyone realizes this thread is almost a year old don't they? Chances are the original poster has gone on to other things. Pretty sad though.


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## BeerKeeper (Mar 21, 2016)

Coach62 said:


> I disagree, do both.




This.


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## Larry in OK (Apr 24, 2016)

The OP is still around but hasn't posted since 4/26/16. I read through this and was hoping to find out what if any resolution had been reached. Maybe we'll still find out.


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## NewbeeInNH (Jul 10, 2012)

It's not pleasant to have discord with your neighbor. Maybe he'd rather not dwell on it anymore.


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## sc-bee (May 10, 2005)

I think everybody realizes it is a year old...but weeee want to know


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