# Queen lost her wings? What happened?



## Trin (May 6, 2020)

I have no clue, maybe she likes the "Punk" look?

On the serious side, if her brood pattern is poor then I would find a replacement. Maybe consider the economics; If she isn't laying well, then do you think you might harvest 1-2 frames less honey from her hive? If the answer is yes, then get her replaced. (the boost in bees = more honey production.) Supersedure will cost you some in the same way, as it will take time for her to do mating flights after she is born, and spends a few days getting ready for flights. So that kind of queen will cost you something like 24-25 days. For me the math = go buy a queen somewhere, if you don't have tour own. Maybe someone in a local bee club might have them.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

99% of the time this is caused by a young queen the bees have raised as a supersedure. When the supersedure queen hatches the bees do not let her harm the old queen until after the new queen has mated. Once she is mated and laying she is allowed to attack the old queen but now she cannot sting her. The younger queen will badger and bully the old queen until the old queen looses her wings which are eventually chewed off, then all her hair, and eventually becomes very frail and doddery looking until she dies. 

This is why the two queens are often found close to each other. It is not because they get on, it is because the young queen follows her around. One of the less kind aspects of life in a beehive.

I have sometimes used these queens to make splits, sometimes they still have a bit of life in them. The one you have still looks like it might head a hive, but if you do use her for something just be sure to sight the new queen first, just on the (very rare) chance her wing loss has some other cause.

I have heard it said that queens can also loose their wings to a balling event, but in my experience a balled queen is fatally injured well before her wings are chewed off, I don't think a balling event would be likely for this queen.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Today I caught a video of an old queen and the supersedure. Unfortunately I was checking for AFB and shook the comb before I noticed the queens so haven't got them together.
The first video shows the old queen she has been chewed at by the young queen and has already lost a wing and had 2 or 3 of her legs damaged, she does not look like she will be around much longer.






The next video is the young queen you will see she is very energetic. The bees were pretty riled up cos I had been shaking them off the combs so not really displaying natural behavior. Hopefully I will find a hive with 2 queens together without disturbing too much, and be able to film the old queen being dogged by the young one.






Oh, the music? Not my choice, just what was playing on the truck radio


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## Velbert (Mar 19, 2006)

Agis Apiaries said:


> Checked a mature hive today and found that the queen had lost her wings. Not DWV, just like broken off. Anyone had that happen? Her laying pattern is not very good, but no supercedure cells being built.
> 
> View attachment 55605





Agis Apiaries said:


> Checked a mature hive today and found that the queen had lost her wings. Not DWV, just like broken off. Anyone had that happen? Her laying pattern is not very good, but no supercedure cells being built.
> 
> View attachment 55605


Had a Couple of Queens with missing wings just like that, Were Laying and keeping colony Going, The mating yard was wright next to a county side road and they would spray mosquitos in about August with a mist, I ask the county not to spray there in front of my mating yard , they were nice and complied. But I learned that day they DO NOT spray an insecticide, It some kind of spray, it just Dissolves there wings and they cant fly.

I was Thinking the queens may have come in contact with some of the spray some how or form, But I just don't know


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I have seen similar queens on occasion in a two frame mating nuc. She's the only queen. She's mated, so the damage happened after she mated. I would guess she got balled. They don't always kill a queen when they ball her.


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## Velbert (Mar 19, 2006)

Oldtimer said:


> 99% of the time this is caused by a young queen the bees have raised as a supersedure. When the supersedure queen hatches the bees do not let her harm the old queen until after the new queen has mated. Once she is mated and laying she is allowed to attack the old queen but now she cannot sting her. The younger queen will badger and bully the old queen until the old queen looses her wings which are eventually chewed off, then all her hair, and eventually becomes very frail and doddery looking until she dies.
> 
> This is why the two queens are often found close to each other. It is not because they get on, it is because the young queen follows her around. One of the less kind aspects of life in a beehive.
> 
> ...


The Queens I Found were new Queens in a mating nuc, Both were in the same yard and the same time of the year.
over the years I have came across many full size hive have a mother and daughter laying lot of the times they would be on the same frame or adjoining Frame
also seen in late summer around last of August and September seen several hive that superseded a older queen and they would run the older queen out with a hand full of bees.
never seen a wingless queen in my first 40 years of keeping bees and I use to run from 75 to 300 colonies, and have not seen any more past that 1 year about 5 years ago it puzzled me. 

Seen many Queens being balled some to the death, But the dead balled queens all had there wings but very, tattered and some were new queens balled by bees that were trying to get off the paint, she still had her wings but very tattered and leg was injured from them hanging on as she would try to get free.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Same here, any balled queens I've seen still have their wings. They do have leg damage though and that can happen fairly quickly


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## Velbert (Mar 19, 2006)

I was going through my photos' and came across this picture that I had take of my first wingless queen bee she had just been laying under a week when I found her there was no sealed brood. but later I checked back and all was good.


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