# Will Spraying BT on Foundation and Plastic frames work for Wax Moths?



## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

Will spraying BT on foundation and waxed plastic frames work for Wax Moths?

Will the bees still draw it out just as good?


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## indypartridge (Nov 18, 2004)

I've never had a problem with wax moths going after foundation, or even comb that's ONLY had honey in it. Wax moths strongly prefer brood comb - it's the larval casings they want.


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

I would imagine that they would draw it just fine. As mentioned, there's no need to spray foundation. It's really brood comb that the wax moths go after.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

I was thinking more along the line of furture protection. I spay the foundation and undrawn plastic, bee build on it and it would be safe from wax moths?

I do realize that the wax moth would have to eat the foundation and not the new wax to be killed by the BT.


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## rweakley (Jul 2, 2004)

I think you would get more efficacy from spray the frames after the comb has been drawn out. What makes BT work is when the freshly hatched larva take a bite of comb and then the bacteria does something to kill them. So if it's sprayed on the foundation the chances of them getting a bite of BT are less than if you spray it after its drawn out. I don't spray my frames unless they are going into storage. If you keep frames on a strong enough hive the bees will protect them. I don't even keep track of which frame has been sprayed, because it's so cheap that if they are going into storage i just spray them again even though it's supposed to last pretty much forever.

Rod


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

BT won't be effective after comb has been built out. At least that's my experience.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

I wont waiste my time spraying then

Thanks all


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## Steve in KC (Mar 10, 2010)

Sorry to sound so ignorant.... what is BT??


thnks


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## indypartridge (Nov 18, 2004)

Steve in KC said:


> Sorry to sound so ignorant.... what is BT??


Bacillus thuringiensis. It's a biological "natural" pesticide. You can Google or Wiki it. 

It's often sold under the trade name "Certan" or "Xentari". 

Here at Beesource, we have a member Sundance who sells it. Read this thread from the "For Sale" section:
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?225796-Agree-WG-Bt-Aizawai-Powder&highlight=certan


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I always figured it was the pollen they were going after. Never thought about larval castings. Interesting.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

I spritz Bt onto undrawn plastic frames after I add a thick layer of additional wax to the cell wall bases. I also spritz it onto any idle comb, heck, I sometimes even spritz some onto all the bees in the hive (one comb surface at a time), so the bees can spread it to everywhere they go inside the hive.

Maybe wax moths here in the desert are less picky than other places, but here, they will eat any beeswax they find, even stacks of foundation. I've also tried to keep pretty little pieces of new comb, the ones that look like a small honeycomb lollipop without the stem. They're pure beeswax from fresh Spring wax, never been used for anything - the wax moth larvae munch them into a pile of wax moth poo - and that's even inside my house. I have to keep them sealed inside a ziploc bag or bam, they're poo. Or, if I spritz them with Bt, they last much longer without being bagged.

I have the best success with Bt when I spritz a nice heavy coating onto idle combs, let them dry, then keep the combs safe and dry in stacked supers, outdoors, with covers on to keep them dry, and the Bt from possibly being washed or diluted by contact with any rain. It isn't effective forever, it does need to be reapplied (probably every other year), but it can reduce wax moth damage to just a few short web trails, or less, instead of a solid mass of webbing, cocoons, and wax moth larvae poo.

And, contrary to popular belief, wax moth larvae will eat pure beeswax, maybe they prefer a richer meal containing pollen, old bee brood castings and cocoons, etc., but they will eat just plain, pure, beeswax.

Another thing they do fairly regularly, here in the desert, any untreated brood combs are frequently affected by a few wax moth larvae burrowing through cells containing sealed brood. They don't seem to devour living bee pupae, but these affected areas are most noticeable once the affected young bees open their cappings and attempt to emerge from their cells, whence they discover that the wax moth webbing has trapped them in their cells, and they are never going to successfully emerge (they are entombed, alive). This is my main motivation to use Bt generously, especially on comb as it is being built, because this happens most often on new comb with its very first batch of brood. It can take quite a while for the bees to remove the entombed young bees and repair the damaged comb.


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## challenger (May 27, 2009)

You are so right. I am in SE NC where it is humid & hot for many months a year. I built a rack that is made up of 6 rectangular frames that I hang from my shop rafters & hoist on a pulley system. I keep my drawn frames (of which I have way too many not being used  ) in this rack. The rack gets plenty of air through the frames and I also keep a light on. Even with this I found comb from honey supers that were completely dry with wax moths starting in them. I am so sick of dealing with ways to store comb that I am going to order a 1lb package of the Xentari BT from here:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004CZ1MOM/?tag=googhydr-20&hvadid=17209862010&hvpos=1o1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1830258180694811617&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&ref=pd_sl_6g06wffvna_b

It is incredibly cheap if applied at the rate suggested of 1 tsp/gallon for 1/2 acre. This will last me forever and I am going to spray foundation, if I ever get to the point that my hive numbers can build up enough again to need it, and I am going to spray all drawn comb from supers & dead outs from now on.
Prior to finding the Xentari I ordered 2 bottles of a product from Canada and the cost was over $75.00 US. Still a good investment but the Xentari will be an absolute find.
Anyone with contrary opinion please chime in. I am always eager to learn from other beeks. Isn't that the way all beekeepers are?


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## HONEYDEW (Mar 9, 2007)

FlowerPlanter said:


> I wont waiste my time spraying then
> 
> Thanks all


It's not a one time and never again fix anyway....usually every other year or two on drawn stored brood comb


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## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

Joseph Clemens said:


> ...snip...Maybe wax moths here in the desert are less picky than other places, but here, they will eat any beeswax they find, even stacks of foundation. I've also tried to keep pretty little pieces of new comb, the ones that look like a small honeycomb lollipop without the stem. They're pure beeswax from fresh Spring wax, never been used for anything - the wax moth larvae munch them into a pile of wax moth poo - and that's even inside my house...snip...


This is my experience as well. Some more larva in the shop today....I sprayed every piece of comb outside a hive today.


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## Rick 1456 (Jun 22, 2010)

I've had them eat foundation wax as well. The ones that have, seem to starve though. A short web trail,,,,no cocoon.
Rick


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## SwampCat (Jul 14, 2011)

I had ten new supers/frames/foundation in an enclosed storage building. Went to get a couple of supers yesterday and the wax moth caccoons were thick on everyone of them. I will definately try the BT.


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