# Countdown to the ban on incandescent



## Pops (Nov 29, 2013)

EastSideBuzz said:


> Make sure if you use incandescent bulbs in your honey warmers to stock up while you can today. They are banned tomorrow.
> 
> I personally have bought quite a few to stock up. You might be able to eBay them also in the future.


Who is banning them? I haven't heard anything like that around here.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

The powers that be. Let's leave it at that.


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## Pops (Nov 29, 2013)

So tomorrow morning I won't be able to buy incandescent bulbs at the store?


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## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

not legally....


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## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

I think it's just 40 & 60 watt.


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## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

I just checked. 40 & 60 watt phaseout starts tomorrow. 75 & 100 started last year. Funny, I just bought some 100 watt incandescents.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Now you tell me. I could have orded a few hundred online a few days ago...


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

Manufacture ceases today, if it's still going on. Stock will be sold until it's gone.

I've not bought incandescent bulbs for a long time now, and halogen bulbs (which are almost as hot as incandescents will still be available.

We will have to find some low wattage heaters instead, like a heating pad.

Peter


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

When I went to the store a couple weeks ago to get some, they wanted about 8 bucks for a package of two, so I figured something was up. No, I didn't buy them at that price.


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## Pops (Nov 29, 2013)

Well they snuck that one right by me LOL looks like according to the Blue Box store you will not have problems getting bulbs until the 2nd half of the year


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## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

What world do you guys live in? this controversy has been boiling for years. Fortunately I believe this does not effect rough service bulbs which of course are more expensive, however the authorities will soon find some other product to play similar games with.
Johno


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

Some stores I've been in already don't carry them anymore, even HD only had a very small stock of a couple different wattages, and they didn't even have anything over 60 watts.


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## GaSteve (Apr 28, 2004)

Johno is correct. "Rough Service" incandescents are still legal. I don't know the whole story, but I believe it took some redesigning and special permission from the Dept. of Energy. They sell them here and at one other site I believe.

http://www.newcandescent.com/


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

Pops said:


> So tomorrow morning I won't be able to buy incandescent bulbs at the store?


You can buy them unitl the stores run out. HD has warehouses of them so it will be another few weeks and they will become scarce. They cannot be made in the USA after tomorrow. 40,60,75 and 100. Spots are still ok but, they take up to much room. I picked up 128 of them so I wont run out for a few years. I use 3 in my warming refer.



jmgi said:


> When I went to the store a couple weeks ago to get some, they wanted about 8 bucks for a package of two, so I figured something was up. No, I didn't buy them at that price.


 Wow you got ripped. HD has a 16 pack for 6 bucks. I bought 6 of them.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

I have 6 cases of 60 watt ceiling recesed (can) lightbulbs stashed in the basement. That should get me through a few years until LED bulbs drop slightly less in price.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

If eventually you cannot get any get these at your local pet store, I use them in my incubator cos they don't make any light.


http://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-...les-Bulb-Drop-Shipping-TK0989/1226664483.html


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## MichaelShantz (May 9, 2010)

In the longer nights of fall-winter-spring, when we use our lights the most, our incandescent bulbs are 100% efficient because we need both heat and light.


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## Moon (May 7, 2011)

What options are available instead of incandescent?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

EastSideBuzz said:


> Make sure if you use incandescent bulbs in your honey warmers to stock up while you can today. They are banned tomorrow.
> 
> I personally have bought quite a few to stock up. You might be able to eBay them also in the future.


I wonder why none of the equipment companies have come up w/ a Hot Box Honey Liquifier for Buckets? Would a Hair Dryer work?


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Yup, got mine. I only use the 60's for keeping chicks warm out of the incubator. I'd hate to use something like a heat lamp. Not necessary and a fire danger. Check out my son's chicken coop. His video surveillance camera caught a chicken hitting the heat lamp and it goes out. Minutes later you see smoke. We were eating dinner in Eatonville, just a few miles away when someone called him and said his house was on fire. He lives on top a big hill and we could see the flames licking up 30 feet high. As we turned the corner to his place we realized it was the coop, not his house! What a night!


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Happy New Year Lauri. Up early or out late?


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

sqkcrk said:


> Happy New Year Lauri. Up early or out late?


Happy New Year to you too Mark. LOL, I am a total Party Pooper. I go to bed at 8:00. Got up at 3:00 to make the old man some sandwiches for the road. Tuna sandwiches of course!










I'd like to get Barry, Mark, Brian (Acebird) and a few other Beesource regulars on the boat and take them out tuna fishing all day. I'd video everyone and post it as the 
"Beesource Reality show". Watch out Duck Dynasty... Bound to be hilarious. But Who gets the skipper hat, who gets the Gilligan hat, who is the professor and who is Marryanne? 

I GOT ONE!! I GOT ONE!! I GOT ONE!!! 

If you want to see a grown man giggle, sell him a big fat queen or let him hook a big fish in the ocean.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Dang, whata life. Uh, I mean wife.


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## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

Lauri said:


> Happy New Year to you too Mark. LOL, I am a total Party Pooper. I go to bed at 8:00. Got up at 3:00 to make the old man some sandwiches for the road. Tuna sandwiches of course!


I'd much prefer to blow up a thumbnail

http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...posting-guidelines&highlight=posting+pictures


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Think about replacing lights for 500 storage bins with LED's. We know they will be stolen as fast as we put them in. That is what we are up against. Heck, they will probably steal the incandescent because they can't get them anymore. It might be cheaper to give each customer a free flash light and leave out the bulbs in the units.

Mark, your wife won't give you a fish sandwich before you go to work?


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

mgolden said:


> I'd much prefer to blow up a thumbnail


I assume you mean my photos. Photo bucket doesn't give the thumbnail option. Just a reduced photo or link you have to click on. I can stop posting photos if that's what you all want.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

R Lauri's photos too big for you to see? Thumb nails usually are too small for me to see details.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Lauri said:


> I assume you mean my photos. Photo bucket doesn't give the thumbnail option. Just a reduced photo or link you have to ckick on. I can stop posting photos if that's what you all want.


No. Please don't.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

sqkcrk said:


> Thumb nails usually are too small for me to see details.


I agree, the thumbnails are too small for me to see details too, although the large photos are kind of 'In your face' 
Unless I'm missing something at Photo Bucket for image options, this is what I use.


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## Broke-T (Jul 9, 2008)

I have 8 broiler houses with a total of 400 100 watt incadescent bulbs. They are on dimmers so as the birds age we can dim the lights . I have been buying up cases of bulbs for 50 cents per bulb the last year. A dimmable LED goes for around $25 each. 

Thanks Federal Government for looking out for me.

Johnny


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Broke-T said:


> Thanks Federal Government for looking out for me.
> 
> Johnny


 They aren't looking out for *you*, they are looking our for *us. * Opps, wrong Forum.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Don't even get started!:no: Opps my derrière.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Lil Brother doesn't like us talking about Big Brother anywhere but Tailgater. 

Happy New Year, Brother Barry.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

sqkcrk said:


> Lil Brother doesn't like us talking about Big Brother anywhere but Tailgater.
> 
> Happy New Year, Brother Barry.


good one mark. 

happy new year barry and to all on beesource!


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Grrrrrrr!!!  Mark, the instigator! "Who, me?!"

I've learned, if someone opens that door even just a crack, it's like open season to some. Hence my post #3.

Happy New Year! Didn't get enough sleep last night, but had fun playing cards with my neighbor and all their kids.


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## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

Lauri said:


> I agree, the thumbnails are too small for me to see details too, although the large photos are kind of 'In your face'
> Unless I'm missing something at Photo Bucket for image options, this is what I use.


Yes, in your face pics that occupy a screen every time one scrolls through a thread

In the task bar, there's an inset image icon.

Hey it's your choice if you stop posting pics.

I long ago realized there's not much I can do about the posts many of us endure. Often thought that a suspension of posting privileges would be beneficial to the quality of this forum.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Broke-T said:


> A dimmable LED goes for around $25 each.


And it would be useless for heating purposes. Just switch to halogen but be careful because they are concentrated heat sources. Other options are floor mats that are designed for heat.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Oldtimer said:


> If eventually you cannot get any get these at your local pet store, I use them in my incubator cos they don't make any light.


Good find OT! They sell them on Ebay. If you buy from a domestic source they run around $12. If you buy directly from China they are around $7. I'm pretty sure, in either case, they all originally come from China.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Yes, there's several different brands including the reputable company Reptile One, but one way or another pretty sure they all get made in China, maybe all brands come from the same factory, don't know.

I've used them to incubate birds also, although incandescent work fine in that they generate heat, I've always thought it must be hard on the birds eyes. Although admittedly that's what most people do and the birds seem fine, I personally prefer not to have them under a bright light.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

mgolden said:


> Yes, in your face pics that occupy a screen every time one scrolls through a thread


The solution to your complaint is within your YOUR hands. 

Its under _Settings _> _General Settings_.
(click the thumbnail to enlarge to readable size) 







Change the _marked _setting in your account to stop "automatic" display of linked photos. You will still get a link in the thread that allows you to view the photo if you click the link.


Lauri, please continue posting your excellent photos. :applause:


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## Richard Cryberg (May 24, 2013)

If you want light from your bulbs either the CFLs or LEDs will cost more but last way longer and save way more than their cost in electricity.

If you simply object to CFLs or LEDs because of whatever reason Phillips has an incandescent that is legal and available. All incandescent manufacturers had the option of updating their out dated technology to make their incandescents legal and all but Phillips declined to stay in the market as it was unprofitable for them. The Phillips bulbs are dimable. They are more expensive than the old incandescents. It costs money to make an incandescent that has higher electricity conversion to light efficiency. But the improved efficiency will pay the cost differential over the life of the bulb.

If you want heat rather than light there always has been a better option than the old standard incandescents. Any of the rough service bulbs are still legal and available. They do cost more but will out last the standard incandescents. Rough service bulbs are dimable.

Seems to me like there are lots of viable options depending on your needs but perhaps I am missing something?


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Oldtimer said:


> I've used them to incubate birds also, although incandescent work fine in that they generate heat, I've always thought it must be hard on the birds eyes. Although admittedly that's what most people do and the birds seem fine, I personally prefer not to have them under a bright light.



I have heritage turkey chicks hatching right now. All comfy next to the pellet stove. WIth the light on all the time, they peep peep peep all night and sleep half the day. I'll be getting some of those dark heat lights if I can find them. Those indoor winter chicks give me some springtime atmosphere tho 










Ya, the rat is just a halloween toy. The larger turkey chick was lonely so that was his friend until the other eggs hatched.


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

I use a ceramic heating element in the honey warmer also. I think its 150W.
We use it with a thermostat.


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## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> The solution to your complaint is within your YOUR hands.
> 
> Its under _Settings _> _General Settings_.
> (click the thumbnail to enlarge to readable size)
> ...


Thanks


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## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

Richard Cryberg said:


> If you want light from your bulbs either the CFLs or LEDs will cost more but last way longer and save way more than their cost in electricity.
> 
> If you simply object to CFLs or LEDs because of whatever reason Phillips has an incandescent that is legal and available. All incandescent manufacturers had the option of updating their out dated technology to make their incandescents legal and all but Phillips declined to stay in the market as it was unprofitable for them. The Phillips bulbs are dimable. They are more expensive than the old incandescents. It costs money to make an incandescent that has higher electricity conversion to light efficiency. But the improved efficiency will pay the cost differential over the life of the bulb.
> 
> ...


Yes missing several points, first off varible wattages are insane. second, no CFL has ever lasted long enough to pay for itself. And free market choice. 

pefect case of lobbyist mandating what consumers do.... but Barry wants to leave politics alone...
Just saying we vote with our dollars.. and dolars say wal mart and cheap bulbs rule


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## MichaelShantz (May 9, 2010)

I made a hot plate out of a bimetal thermostat and the heating element from an old iron. That works for small stuff like a gallon jug. I use a little space heater and a bimetal thermostat for warming frames to 90sF before extraction. Solid state thermostats are no good since they have so much hysteresis.

A hair dryer puts out way too much heat (unless you have a huge box) and the thermostat would be turning it on/off all the time I think.

I tried using those CFL compact florescent lights that they say last 9 yrs. If they are turned on/off a lot (ie. normal use) I got more like one year.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

I know this is off-topic from the original post's subject, but since someone touched on this issue:

Everyone - post more photos and post bigger photos. The more and the bigger the better. Photos are hugely informative. The more detail, the more informative. Whoever is lobbying for fewer or smaller photos is totally missing the whole point of the forum, which is maximum information exchange. It is worth a small amount of inconvenience to see a highly detailed photo. JMHO.

Just for fun; My 85 year-old and 70 year-long (caught his first swarm at age 15) beekeeper neighbor, Ted, watching me hive a newly purchased nuc in my rooftop apiary. Notice how shiny and new all the equipment is, including my bee suit. Ted's eyes are so sharp and practiced, that he spotted the queen from where he was standing as I transferred the frames.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

shinbone said:


> Everyone - post more photos and post bigger photos. The more and the bigger the better.


When I first joined Beesource Barry was hammering me about the size of the pictures I was linking from Photobucket so now I only copy the link. When I saw Lauri's photos it made me wonder why she was allowed to do it. However I never lost any sleep over it. Are large photos allowed now?


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

The rules are the rules but Barry stated elsewhere he has trouble monitoring all the pics.

Don't worry Ace I've had my butt kicked over it a couple times also.


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## Kidbeeyoz (May 8, 2013)

Acebird said:


> When I first joined Beesource Barry was hammering me about the size of the pictures I was linking from Photobucket so now I only copy the link. When I saw Lauri's photos it made me wonder why she was allowed to do it. However I never lost any sleep over it. Are large photos allowed now?


Lauri's bee photos are superb. As they say "a photo says a thousand words".
I wish a lot more forum members would post photos to better explain what they are working on or what is happening in the hive. After all it is the digital age and anyone can take a heap of photos.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

How about we try to stick to this. Large photos might be OK if they are posted for _educational purposes_. Photos like these in a small thumbnail would be useless:




























Somebody stop me. I have a million of them I'll figure out how to make them smaller tho, except when necessary to go BIG

Update: I figured out how to add thumbnail, but now can't get my sample photo out of the post. The 'manage attachments' won't work.inch:


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

I'm neither for large or small images. Why can't everyone settle for a happy medium? I set the maximum size at 640 by 480 pixels at 72 dpi.

That's what this is:


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

A picture is worth a thousand words.

How much space does a thousand words take? Two of DanielY's Posts and two of Mike Bispham's? :lpf::banana::wiener::lookout::w


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

When I scroll through treads I prefer seeing the thumbnail size pics. If it's something I'm interested in looking at in greater detail, I can click on it and fill the screen with an enlarged pic. 

Like everything else in beekeeping .... opinions are endless.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Barry said:


> That's what this is:


Those Google ads are paying off!


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Mike Gillmore said:


> Like everything else in beekeeping .... opinions are endless.


No they aren't.  I hope not. Numerous and varied, but endless?


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## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> Numerous and varied, but endless?


Some threads with just two opinions seem endless.


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## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

Mike Gillmore said:


> When I scroll through treads I prefer seeing the thumbnail size pics. If it's something I'm interested in looking at in greater detail, I can click on it and fill the screen with an enlarged pic.
> 
> Like everything else in beekeeping .... opinions are endless.


Something like this.









I can choose whether I want to enlarge and see more detail.

What if all members chose to post increased number of bees, hobbies and interest with large pics??????????


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

While you are busy hoarding bulbs, There is once again, another ban on the horizon:
They are running the ban on lead shot for our shotguns up the flagpole again.
Its still plentiful and on the shelves, FOR NOW!

Just like the bulbs; when its too late, it's too late.

t:


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Barry said:


> Why can't everyone settle for a happy medium? I set the maximum size at 640 by 480 pixels at 72 dpi.


Because resizing photos is a PITA. Tell me why code couldn't be written to automatically resize the photo to 640 x 480 if the linked photo is larger.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I bet Lauri copped that last Photo from Facebook. I think I recognize that place. Is that giuy using jumbo dadant type frames of honey for feed?


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Acebird said:


> Because resizing photos is a PITA.


It takes....like....ten seconds.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

sqkcrk said:


> I bet Lauri copped that last Photo from Facebook. I think I recognize that place. Is that giuy using jumbo dadant type frames of honey for feed?


Yes, I'm friends with him on facebook. He has some GREAT queens and a good thing going on. I can't understand a word they post though. I think Duzce is in Turkey. I'd love to get ahold of some of his genetics. (Queens that is) LOL

Here is his page if anyone wants to see.

https://www.facebook.com/erkankayaduzce

I posted that photo along with one of mine feeding sugar blocks. It's the same method of timing and placement, directly above the cluster in a single deep...just different feed.











Sorry, it won't load as a thumbnail.


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## dixiebooks (Jun 21, 2010)

MichaelShantz said:


> In the longer nights of fall-winter-spring, when we use our lights the most, our incandescent bulbs are 100% efficient because we need both heat and light.


:thumbsup: You're right. In the winter, I use the incandescents and in the summer I use the others. I think banning them to save energy (if that is the reason for the ban) is false economy if we are talking about winter use. JMO.


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## DPBsbees (Apr 14, 2011)

Resistance electric heat is probably the least energy efficient way to heat of all. Do you have electric baseboard heat in your house? If so my company loves you. Yes, I work for an electric company.


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## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

really?? we go form light bulbs to a whine fest on pictures??


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## DPBsbees (Apr 14, 2011)

gmcharlie said:


> really?? we go form light bulbs to a whine fest on pictures??



Sorry for being off topic, gmcharlie. I couldn't resist.


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

Lauri said:


> Yes, I'm friends with him on facebook. He has some GREAT queens and a good thing going on. I can't understand a word they post though. I think Duzce is in Turkey. I'd love to get ahold of some of his genetics. (Queens that is) LOL


I am also friends with several of those Turkish beekeepers, they really do make some interesting posts and pics on FB. I sometimes use Google Translate to try and figure out what they are talking about... I've used Google Translate to ask questions or reply... bet it really makes me sound dumb. Some of the beekeepers from the Caucasus countries can be awfully interesting as well. There bee economy seems to be mostly Honey and Wax based..... particularly wax candles.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

> Resistance electric heat is probably the least energy efficient way to heat of all.

There isn't really a practical, affordable alternative to electric resistance heat for a home-built honey warming box. The initial cost for a more efficient heat pump is really unwarranted unless you are heating honey on a year round basis on a large scale, or are already using a boiler for something else.


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## Bee Bliss (Jun 9, 2010)

Regarding CFL's -- was in the kitchen once working at the sink and heard a crackling noise and looked behind me. Didn't see anything. Kept working at the sink and then smelled smoke. Turned around to see lots of smoke! It stunk too. A CFL bulb melted plastic, etc. and parts looked scorched. It was the ceiling fan light. I will never trust the CFL lights!


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## DPBsbees (Apr 14, 2011)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> >
> 
> There isn't really a practical, affordable alternative to electric resistance heat for a home-built honey warming box. The initial cost for a more efficient heat pump is really unwarranted unless you are heating honey on a year round basis on a large scale, or are already using a boiler for something else.


I agree that it's the best option for some small scale heating needs. Toasters are a good example. I just wouldn't use an incandescent bulb as a way to heat the house. As I understand it, there will be more energy efficient incandescent bulbs that will still be available. As for a ceiling fan, I'd make sure the bulb was rated for that application. The high vibes are what will do in many normal bulbs, whatever the type.


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## Kamon A. Reynolds (Apr 15, 2012)

ah man and I just broke one today. Oh and how we never thought about them until they are no more.


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## NeilV (Nov 18, 2006)

Two questions:

I have several switches in my house that have the dials for light control. What can I use for those lights, since the mini-florescent lights don't work in those?

Second, will heat lamp lights still be available for use in my honey warmer and chicken coop? (So far, my coops not burned down.)


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## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

The dimmable options are pretty well marked on their packaging.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

> What can I use for those lights, since the mini-florescent lights don't work in those?

There are "dimmable" compact fluorescent bulbs available that will work with existing dimmers. Here is an example:

http://www.amazon.com/PureSpectrum-...25515&sr=1-1&keywords=dimmable+cfl+light+bulb
Look for the word "dimmable" on the package.


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## Allen Martens (Jan 13, 2007)

DPBsbees said:


> Resistance electric heat is probably the least energy efficient way to heat of all.


How so? Other than a heat pump, I don't know of any other form of energy conversion that is as close to 100%. Unless you are including energy losses during the production of electricity, transmissions losses, etc. An incandescent light bulb is 98% efficient at producing heat energy. Sucks that 2% is lost to light.  Amongst the most expensive in many area though.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

LED's are probably a better choice because the FRL will shut down at 50% setting of the dial.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Allen Martens said:


> Amongst the most expensive in many area though.


There are all kinds of fees, surcharges and taxes on electrical energy but if you burn fossil fuel directly for heat there isn't any. Now that scenario reverses if you use it for an automobile. So if everyone drove an electric car how long do you think it would take for the reversal again?


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## DPBsbees (Apr 14, 2011)

Allen Martens said:


> How so? Other than a heat pump, I don't know of any other form of energy conversion that is as close to 100%. Unless you are including energy losses during the production of electricity, transmissions losses, etc. An incandescent light bulb is 98% efficient at producing heat energy. Sucks that 2% is lost to light.  Amongst the most expensive in many area though.


Electricity must be cheap up there. Do you know anyone who doesn't live in a cardboard box that uses a light bulb to heat their house? "I" squared "R" losses are why we transmit power at 220 to 500 KV. Yes, the cost of making the power and getting it to you, usually make electric tough to compete in the heating area.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Well, Dan, you did say "the  least *energy *efficient ". Electric heat applied at the point of use, like a baseboard heater, is indeed 100% energy efficient, all the time. ALL of the electricity used is converted to heat.

That is quite different than whether electric resistance heat is "cost efficient". In order to determine that, you have to evaluate the cost of all alternatives, like natural gas, firewood, propane, coal, etc. :lookout:

Even a heat pump may not be as efficient as baseboard heat in extreme cold. The resistance elements in a typical heat pump (used when its so cold the pump is inefficient) are not located in the living area, so some heat is wasted. 

It all "_depends_".


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

Lauri said:


> I'd like to get Barry, Mark, Brian (Acebird) and a few other Beesource regulars on the boat and take them out tuna fishing all day. I'd video everyone and post it as the


Let me know when the boat trip is and I will figure out where roy is.



mgolden said:


> I'd much prefer to blow up a thumbnail


Way to start the year wining.


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## DPBsbees (Apr 14, 2011)

Natural gas is almost always cheaper these days. Most electric is made from this source, and nuclear is close behind. Coal is on the way out. We take that energy and convert it electricity and sell it to you. I'm not just basing this on working for an electric company, I pay less today to heat my house with gas fired hot water baseboard than I did a condo over 30 years ago with baseboard electric resistant heating and this house is twice as large. Yes, it's just as cold here. In the deep south, where do don't need heat often, it may make sense since the installation coasts are low. Is there anyone out there above the Mason Dixon line that wishes they had baseboard electric resistance heat, who actually has another system that works? It's Ok for spot heating, but I can't see using it for an entire house.


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

shinbone said:


> I know this is off-topic from the original post's subject, but since someone touched on this issue:
> watching me hive a newly purchased nuc in my rooftop apiary. Notice how shiny and new all the equipment is, including my bee suit .
> 
> 
> ...


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## Allen Martens (Jan 13, 2007)

Graham you are right, I was trying to compare energy efficiency vs cost efficiency, just not as well as you.

Dan the source for most our electricity is hydro and it is relatively cheap up here - about $0.07 per kwh. My heating system is an open loop geothermal heat pump with a COP of 4 so electricity becomes very affordable. OT for incandescents and electrical resistance for heating I guess.


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## HIVE+ (Jan 4, 2012)

Someone mentioned the continued availability of "rough duty" incandescent bulbs. Mother Earth News has been warning of the toxicity of these bulbs to poultry because of the Teflon coating. The heated coating gives off a gas that kills birds, just like an overheated skillet. What M.E.N. is trying to get is a warning label put on the package to advise people.


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## DPBsbees (Apr 14, 2011)

Allen Martens said:


> Graham you are right, I was trying to compare energy efficiency vs cost efficiency, just not as well as you.
> 
> Dan the source for most our electricity is hydro and it is relatively cheap up here - about $0.07 per kwh. My heating system is an open loop geothermal heat pump with a COP of 4 so electricity becomes very affordable. OT for incandescents and electrical resistance for heating I guess.


Allen, It looks like you have your eyes wide open. That's all I'm saying. I'm sure there are many ways we can save energy. My clean wood stove is cooking away. Hydro is not available much in the states. Electric can be a good source, and my company is trying to be as clean as possible. I'm just trying to say, when we get it to your house try to use it wisely. That heat pump, and other techs like it, are wise uses of it. This thread started with people mourning about an invention of Thomas Edison. I grew up in the state he invented the light bulb in. We can do better than something that was invented in 1879.


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## BGhoney (Sep 26, 2007)

i just bought 16 60watters at lowes for about 5 bucks. I better get a few more.


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

BGhoney said:


> i just bought 16 60watters at lowes for about 5 bucks. I better get a few more.


Yes you should Because, We can do better than something that was invented in 1879. I just got 6 cases of 16 and I will be getting more soon. I say &*T* those *)(U)(U&&^)*U)( and burn incandescents. I am tired of the Man telling me what I can and cant do based on which way the wind is blowing.


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## melliferal (Aug 30, 2010)

Forget CFL's. I realize those were "the" alternative when the DC of manufacturing incandescents was passed, and a lot of people had legitimate gripes about CFL's because they had some problems of their own; but technology has marched on.

LED's is where it's at, guys. For a not really that-much-higher price *all things considered*, you get the much, much longer life, and significantly lower energy use versus incandescents. And unlike CFL's, LED's come on instantly, don't contain toxic chemicals that require special disposal, and are widely available in "warm" white - a more incandescent-like tone; no need for that sterile and depressing cold-white of the flourescents in your living space.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>We can do better than something that was invented in 1879. 

There are a lot of things invented in that era that I don't think have ever been improved on.


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## cdevier (Jul 17, 2010)

For years I have used 40 watt bulbs to warm our horse waterers during the winter. Yes, the waterers are made with heating elements; but when the element burns out and needs replaced, the cost is almost $75 per element plus an hour of my time. The 50 cent bulbs produce enough heat so that the element s hardly ever heat up.

another example of " I'm from the goverment and here to help" NO THANKS
Charlie


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>For years I have used 40 watt bulbs to warm our horse waterers during the winter.

Where is the bulb? Certainly not in the water?


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## melliferal (Aug 30, 2010)

It's important to note that "heavy duty" bulbs and other special kinds of incandescents aren't affected by the phase-out and will still be around. If you gotta warm your horse waterer with an incandescent, you can keep doing that...


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## delber (Dec 26, 2010)

Just an FYI. . . There are chemicals in the LED's also. They've not been tested properly I understand. CFL's? if you like mercury in your diet they're fine. I don't have a problem with offering any of these along with other options. The big problem I have with this and other things is that the power / s at "be" are trying to tell me what I can and can't do in my house. That's my beef!!!


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## cdevier (Jul 17, 2010)

MB - Our horse waterers have an area under the water pan where the pipes and electrical are placed. As long as I keep this above freezing, the water above is usually ok down to about 10 F.

Mill. The rough service bulbs are ok, but cost $2.50 or more. My electric bill for the barns alone cost about $100 per month - being a retired electrician, I do whatever I can to keep the usage down.
Charlie


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## ToeOfDog (Sep 25, 2013)

"We can do better than something that was invented in 1879"

When was foundation invented? <GG>

Just think, it improved from 4.x mm wide cells to something like 5.8mm cells then back to 5.4mm.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Lauri said:


> I'd like to get Barry, Mark, Brian (Acebird) and a few other Beesource regulars on the boat and take them out tuna fishing all day.


How did I miss this post? Now that would be a treat unless the group decides to throw me in the Pacific.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Lauri said:


> Happy New Year to you too Mark. LOL, I am a total Party Pooper. I go to bed at 8:00. Got up at 3:00 to make the old man some sandwiches for the road. Tuna sandwiches of course!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, physically I'm more the shape of skipper than Barry or Brian are. But ocean fishing doesn't agree w/ me so Lauri would get a lot of footage of me chumming over the side, not w/ my pals.

I'll stay on land and clean the catch.


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## melliferal (Aug 30, 2010)

delber said:


> Just an FYI. . . There are chemicals in the LED's also. They've not been tested properly I understand. CFL's? if you like mercury in your diet they're fine. I don't have a problem with offering any of these along with other options. The big problem I have with this and other things is that the power / s at "be" are trying to tell me what I can and can't do in my house. That's my beef!!!


Ah but they're _not_. Nobody is stopping you from going out right now and buying a thousand incandescent bulbs and using nothing but them in your house after the "ban" for as long as you live. The light bulb police will not come to your house and arrest you!

The powers that be are only telling *light bulb manufacturers* what *they* can manufacture. Which they've been doing all along anyway; so no real change there.


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## TalonRedding (Jul 19, 2013)

Easy.....easy..... :lookout:


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

I bought 8 60 watt incandescents, once in awhile need one to keep the chicken water thawed, never have enough honey to warm and when I do it's hot enough here...


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

Acebird said:


> How did I miss this post? Now that would be a treat unless the group decides to throw me in the Pacific.


Gee Brian, Why would they do that? :lookout:


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Gypsi said:


> Gee Brian, Why would they do that? :lookout:


They don't like the way I fish.

Mark, you just got to drink the beer on a full stomach.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Acebird said:


> How did I miss this post? Now that would be a treat unless the group decides to throw me in the Pacific.


R u good bait? :lpf:


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Acebird said:


> They don't like the way I fish.
> 
> Mark, you just got to drink the beer on a full stomach.


Isn't marijuana legal in WA for medicinal purposes? I bet that would help. Even if I did get motion sickness I might not care.


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## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> Isn't marijuana legal in WA for medicinal purposes?


Hey, I have flat feet!


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

cg3 said:


> Hey, I have flat feet!


If I had only known..... I could have "hooked you up" while you were at the beach!! On second thought... I don't believe we have Med. M in NC...... probably be awhile given the current state Gov.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> Isn't marijuana legal in WA for medicinal purposes?


Why do you care it is the pacific ocean?



> R u good bait?


I don't know you will have to ask the mermaids.


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## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

hpm08161947 said:


> I could have "hooked you up"


Well, I was hungry and you gave me meat and I was thirsty and you gave me drink. Can't ask for everything.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

sqkcrk said:


> R u good bait? :lpf:


We don't want to draw the sharks when we're fishing. Better keep him on the boat!


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## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

Barry said:


> Better keep him on the boat!


Don't forget the radioactive plume from Japan.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

Oh, I'll bet he's good bait for something besides sharks. Newbeeks maybe?


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

EastSideBuzz said:


> Let me know when the boat trip is and I will figure out where roy is.


Roy is just south of Tacoma, near Yelm.
Here's Jim's web site:

http://epic-fishing.com/

(He just does this part time-not his occupation)


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Lauri said:


> the old man's web site:


Come on, work with me, I've been working hard to get Ace to stop referring to his wife as "the wife."


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

cg3 said:


> Well, I was hungry and you gave me meat and I was thirsty and you gave me drink. Can't ask for everything.



Yea.... I was looking for a "Blessing"... I mean you had that long hair and wore sandals..... I mean... why take chances...


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

hpm08161947 said:


> ... I mean you had that long hair and wore sandals.....


But in Western Washington, we wear socks & sandals....Blue tarp camper, You're one of US! A little different.


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## max2 (Dec 24, 2009)

Oldtimer said:


> If eventually you cannot get any get these at your local pet store, I use them in my incubator cos they don't make any light.
> 
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-...les-Bulb-Drop-Shipping-TK0989/1226664483.html


I use the same too. Cheaper to run and will last longer.
Can't remember seeing an incandescent bulb for yonks. What would you want to use them for? A museum?


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Barry said:


> Come on, work with me, I've been working hard to get Ace to stop referring to his wife as "the wife."


Barry, love is expressed in different ways even though it may not be politically correct. I know what Lauri is saying the "old man" is just another way of saying "her man", not to be messed with.

No worries, I will still try to be good.


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