# is it ok not to paint hives?



## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

Your paint was apparently not up to the task! I believe it is hot and dry in your area. Painting is not as critical in that situation. I have some unpainted boxes that I put in service because I needed them. When it is convenient I will paint them. I don't think it is that critical where it is dry and if you have no insects that eat wood. Are these boxes where termites won't eat them? Do you have carpenter ants that bore into wood? That makes painting or other wood treatment more necessary.


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## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

Your Mediterranean climate is similar, but likely more extreme than the one I enjoy.

Exposed wood is slow to rot, but sun bleaching and drying takes its toll. Wood cracks, warps and checks quickly under the relentless summer sun. 

Paint, whitewash, or a UV resistant varnish protect the underlying wood. Years of boat maintenance makes me leary of "brightwork", and so I use paint. 

I also have unpainted boxes made of Incense Cedar and Redwood, two softwoods with very high silca, and so much resistant to checking, warping and drying. Do you have access to a natural "fenceboard" material, at a competitive cost, selected for resistance to sun exposure. Mass produced woodware in the US is mostly very soft white pines (easy to machine) but very susceptible to sun damage.

Wax/resin dipping may seal the wood (an alternative treatment discussed frequently on this site) -- seems like too much work to me and spendthrift, and I doubt it conveys UV resistance to bleaching.

I think the nearly ideal hive protection is the generations-old whitewash. It allows the wood to breath (essential hive function) while protecting it from rain and sun. A cheap thin paint is a good substitute for whitewash.


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## NewBeeLady (May 20, 2014)

Why is only wood material used for hive boxes? I have seen the hard plastic for bottom boards, but why not for hive bodies? I do not like painting, and so now I have boxes with peeling paint, and rotting corners. Are there any hard plastic hive boxes out there? I would like to order a bunch.

Lazy Bee Keeper with other things to do.


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## DPBsbees (Apr 14, 2011)

NewBeeLady said:


> Why is only wood material used for hive boxes? I have seen the hard plastic for bottom boards, but why not for hive bodies? I do not like painting, and so now I have boxes with peeling paint, and rotting corners. Are there any hard plastic hive boxes out there? I would like to order a bunch.


http://www.motherlodeproducts.com/ sells plastic hive bodies that don't need to be painted.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Simpsons offers plastic _deep _boxes:

http://www.simpsonsbeesupply.com/


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Climate probably affects the answer more than anything.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslazy.htm#stoppainting


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

Most often, peeling paint is associated with either no primer coat under the paint or inferior grade materials.
I like to do things right the first time, even if it means additional cost upfront. Doing things twice is always more expensive and time consuming.
These were painted 3 years ago.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

beeMT said:


> is it ok not to paint the hives from outside
> do they really last much less if not painted?


It's fine. They last a long time either way.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

The quality of the wood is far more important than the paint or other preservative. In Kentucky, a box made of good poplar, or pine, and left unpainted, will outlast most beekeepers. Especially those boxes made from poplar.

Two and a half years ago I was told that if you made a hive out of cottonwood, you could sit and watch it rot, and in six moths it would be gone. So, I took the challenge. Made a 5 frame nuc from cottonwood, no paint, set it in the middle of a field, direct sun, After 2 1/2 years there is no rot, no warp, no shrink, (and no swarms have moved in either), but, good wood will last a long time here in Kentucky, paint or no paint.

NewBeeLady... 20 years ago there was a push to go to a fiberglass like plastic for bottom boards, hive chambers, inner covers and tops. Twenty years later about the only part, in this area, to stick around is the plastic tops. The bottom boards warp horribly and the hive bodies will not sit right on them. The inner covers bow and stick to the top bars if the hives are in direct sun light. The hive bodies were assembled with screws, (rabbet joints) and the screws split out and the boxes come apart. 

Some people in this area do like the plastic tops. They are waterproof, light, no paint needed. But, they draw moisture badly in the Winter, and the moisture drips back down into the brood nest. They are light, and they require a block or some weight if you have very much wind. They blow off easily. When a customer comes for hive pick-up, I give them the choice of a plastic top, or a wood top with metal covering. About half take plastic, half take wood. I don't use them, I use a migratory top.

You can still find the plastic items, but, I don't like them. They may work for you, but, not for me.

I edited this post to reflect that the boxes are made from poplar. The way the sentence was constructed, someone might think I was saying the beekeeper was made of poplar.

cchoganjr


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

Here is Southern Indiana unpainted woodenware warps badly in a couple years, at least it has for everyone know that uses it. All the cases I've seen are in part shade, though, so that may make a difference.

At any rate, I treat mine with two coats of boiled linseed oil, a coat of alkyd primer, and two coats of exterior latex. So far only the first boxes I did (without the linseed oil) show any signs of peeling, and I attribute that to the primer I was using -- bought better stuff the next year.

If you use Titebond III glue in the box joints and make sure they are filled, you will prevent the most common cause of box failure -- rotten "finger" on box joints. The design of the joints allows water to penetrate easily and keep the wood wet, inviting wood eating fungi to lunch. The Titebond will keep all the water out, greatly reducing the rot. 

The bees take care of the inside for you, coating it in propolis very quickly. After a few years the insides of the boxes are completely waterproof.

Peter


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## jdmidwest (Jul 9, 2012)

Wood breathes and moisture control is better. Dry bees are happy bees. They seek out hollow trees for hives in the wild, so wood is just natural.

You can dip the boxes in a paraffin/rosin mix. You can soak them in ECO wood treatment. I use a UV deck stain on my cedar boxes and some of my pine nuc boxes. Natural wood look and durable. There are many other options to paint.


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## j.kuder (Dec 5, 2010)

in my experience 40 years making signs. the wood expands and contracts with the temp.changes which over time opens small checks that allow moisture in that causes the paint to blister and peel and as more moisture gets in it accelerates. the paint that remains traps moisture in the wood further accelerating the process. if you are painting and don't want a mess in a few years then you need to repaint every couple of years. oil base stain is better because its easier to re stain (no sanding and scraping 
of peeling paint) it lets the wood breath and dry out same for no coating.


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## allan (Jul 7, 2013)

I did not paint my cypress boxes I just spray them with rainguard waterproofer


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

beeMT said:


> is it ok not to paint the hives from outside
> do they really last much less if not painted?


BeeMT, we live in an area that is humid and prone to wood eating insects. We cut and build our hives out of cedar. We do not paint or stain. Our cedar is highly resistant to rot and termites. I would paint pine, which is commonly used in our area.


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

To answer the original question from Malta, if you protect the wood from rain, in that climate painting should be optional. If exposed wood on buildings does not deteriorate quickly, your hives will not either. Paint will of course make them last longer, but if it's usually dry rather than rainy and damp, the only thing that there is to worry about is warping from repeated wetting and drying. Paint protects against that as well, since it prevents the wood from absorbing water when it rains.

Locally here in Indiana, we have had poor luck with EcoWood -- it prevents rot by preventing fungal growth, but does nothing to interfere with water movement in and out of the wood. The result is large amounts of warping. The bees keep the hive interior at fairly high humidity, and until they get the new boxes well coated with propolis, the moisture gradient from moist inside to baked dry outside makes for severe warping and splitting. If the boxes are not assembled correctly so that changes in moisture content cause the top and bottom to separate, the box joints will open up with bad results.

I have exposed wooden gables on my house, now almost 60 years old made of yellow pine or douglas fir, and although I have to paint them every 5 years or so, not a single bit of it has badly warped or rotted. Ponderosa pine, the typical material for bee equipment, will rot away in 10 years or so if not painted, sometimes faster if it stays damp most of the day.

Peter


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## BeeAttitudes (Dec 6, 2014)

allan, would you mind giving more detail about the rainguard waterproofer you used and how you applied it?

Thanks!

Edit to Add: I just Googled "rainguard waterproofer". I didn't realize this was a product name so loads of info showed up.



allan said:


> I did not paint my cypress boxes I just spray them with rainguard waterproofer


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## TSWisla (Nov 13, 2014)

I am a newbee. I am torturing myself with this topic. I live in NE IL and it is HUMID in the summer and COLD and DRY in the winter. Severe extremes. I would really rather not paint, but I am very fearful of warping and cracking. Can anyone try to steer me in the right direction? I am closely following MB's book as my beekeeping guide. I would like to be completely organic, which is the main reason that I would prefer not to paint. I am using pine supers. There were other options listed, oil based stain, parrafin/rosin, deck stain. Can anyone elaborate on these? I would not even know where to purchase parrafin/rosin. Any advice for a newbee would be appreciated. Thank you.


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## Ret Sgt. Robert Yates (Dec 5, 2014)

beeMT said:


> is it ok not to paint the hives from outside
> do they really last much less if not painted?
> 
> I have painted my hives and in less than a year all the paint is cracked and peeling off - so i was thinking if it would be ok if i dont paint them


BeeMT,

Are you using local wood (oily or waxy types of wood) or imported wood (wood that is not suited for your area/Island conditions ) to build your hives ? 
What is the type of paint you are having trouble with ? this could be a lesser /cheaper product not suitable for your area / Island conditions 
Did / do you paint more then one coat of paint on your hives ?
and if so are you doing so as a wash type of paint(to make the paint go further in painting more hives) or painting with unthinned paint ?
All of these things will effect your painted hive out come for the amount of time they will hold paint on the wood .

Best Regards


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

We use wood stain rather than paint. Some deeps get used without either...I may come to regret that.


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## jamneff (Mar 5, 2012)

Make sure you are using Exterior Paint not Interior paint


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## TSWisla (Nov 13, 2014)

Exterior latex or oil? What kind of primer? I am intrigued by the parrafin. Simply staining will protect the wood from warping/cracking? Thank you.


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## TSWisla (Nov 13, 2014)

Can anyone else offer any advice?


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Sure, you can '_not_' paint hives.  Its OK, really. 

Just be prepared for the wood to deteriorate faster than painted wood. The biggest problem with stain & oils is the _sun_. The very qualities that make the stained/oiled wood look attractive (the relative _lack _of "solids" in the oil/stain) is the reason that the ultraviolet rays from the sun degrade the oiled/stained wood faster than painting. 

Paint has solids that to one degree or another largely block/reflect the UV rays, so painted wood is likely to last longer. Note that _exterior _paint normally is formulated to do a better job of UV blocking than _interior _paint. And a gloss paint typically will reflect more UV than a flat paint.


It could be worse. 

You could have paid a bunch $$$$ of money to buy a fancy _stained wood_ front door for your mansion, and now discover that the sun is destroying your pride and joy. Here is the tale of woe:
http://www.finehomebuilding.com/how-to/qa/finishing-exterior-wood-door.aspx

Note the final recommendation in that article - add _shade_! :lpf:

.


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## Barry Digman (May 21, 2003)

beeMT said:


> is it ok not to paint the hives from outside


The bees won't care one way or another. Fellow beekeepers on the other hand...


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

jamneff said:


> Make sure you are using Exterior Paint not Interior paint


If interior paint was free and you have to paint it twice as often what would you say?


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## rmaxwell (Apr 23, 2014)

I stain with a high quality deck stain/sealer which keeps the natural look of the wood but still offers protection.


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

Even if it was free I'd not bother to use interior paint, it won't hold up against the UV in sunlight. Exterior paint is also usually quite a bit harder for water to move through.

But suit yourself! They are your boxes, not mine.

Peter


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

If it is free it is for me.


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