# Mite Away Quick Strips - Dead Queens



## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

Whew, that stinks.


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

That's interesting. I use MAQS and I don't think I've ever experience abnormal queen loss. I recall Randy Oliver did a study that included some data on queen loss. However, I've heard from others that they suffered more than they thought was normal. Here's a blurb from the NOD website:

*I’ve heard there can be issues with queen health when using Formic Acid. Is this true?*

*During dearth periods, when ambient temperatures are above 29.5°C, there is an elevated risk of queen loss, supercedure, or delay in egg laying. Treatment should be postponed until temperatures drop or nectar flow resumes. Formic acid will initially disturb colony activities and may, within one day of application, result in queen rejection or slight increase in adult bee mortality. Some brood mortality may occur in the initial stage of treat*ment. Colony activity should return to normal by the end of treatment. Do not destroy queen cells that may be observed prior to, or post treatment. Supercedure, even if thought to be set in motion by treatment, is a natural process, and should be allowed to proceed for the health of the colony. Verify colonies are queen-right one month after treatment. Mother and daughter queens present post treatment is not uncommon.*

I wonder if your losses were going to happen anyway...due to ventilation or heat...stuff like that. I keep worrying that one of these years I'll have a bad loss.


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## jkard883 (Sep 17, 2014)

Thank you, that's interesting. I'm most interested in the "delay in egg laying" as there are zero eggs in the hives that were treated. Although it never got above 29.5C until after I removed the strips. 

I do have to say, this has put me off to MAQS until I figure out what is going on.


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

The "West Virginia University" method of using 50% formic acid comes with a brief history of their development of the technique. They said they saw 25% rate of balling of the queen early in the program, and tried all sorts of things to correct it. This included an elaborate "queen escape" system above the fumigation pads, which I've decided are just excess baggage. What they finally did was mix some Honey Bee Healthy into the formic acid solution, which seems to do the trick.

I've got limited experience so far, just a few years with a few hives, but I've yet to lose a queen to either MAQS or the WVU method. Exactly why the luck would be hard to know for sure, but I'd suggest you might try a little HBH, probably on a separate pad, alongside either the MAQS or the formic acid pads. The WVU authors did say you can't put HBH in the FA solution far ahead of time as it reacts, and soon becomes brown crud. I skip that by using a separate pad. And watch the temperatures closely ... formic acid methods depend on having a consistent temperature, achieved by putting the stuff above the broodnest. High or very low temperature loses this control. Read the directions.

http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/varroa/FormicAcid.pdf


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## Agis Apiaries (Jul 22, 2014)

We tried the MAQS last year. Everything was within the printed specs. Lost about 30% of our queens. Won't be using MAQS again.


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## johnbeejohn (Jun 30, 2013)

where these nucs doubles? how many pads did u use i use them and cant say i have had that problem


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

I thought these were full sized colonies. Not nucs. Am I wrong? I think the protocol for nucs would be different.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Could it be that the queen just went off laying and open brood was destroyed? I know *my* major clue to whether or not the queen is there is by seeing milk brood or eggs. Anybody has to be better than me at spotting the dark ladies when I want to! In few words, how do you determine that the queen perished?

Your losses are far higher than what is typical so maybe there is something else at play here


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## DPBsbees (Apr 14, 2011)

I use the single pad treatment and don't have issues with queen loss. I only use the two pad method when I'm planning on re-queening anyway.


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

crofter said:


> Your losses are far higher than what is typical so maybe there is something else at play here


Kind of what I was thinking too.


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

Treated 13 colonies in double deeps last fall. ZERO queen loss but each and every one quit laying for 5 (FIVE) days.
Being able to spot a queen is crucial in determining if you actually have queens.


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## johnbeejohn (Jun 30, 2013)

I think MAQS are the coolest things since sliced bread throw a pad or 2 between boxes in aug sept and my bees don't die over winter


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## Richard Cryberg (May 24, 2013)

jkard883 said:


> Thank you, that's interesting. I'm most interested in the "delay in egg laying" as there are zero eggs in the hives that were treated. Although it never got above 29.5C until after I removed the strips.
> 
> I do have to say, this has put me off to MAQS until I figure out what is going on.


I bet most of those hives still have a queen. MAQS can kill eggs and young brood and stop the queen from laying for at least a week after treatment. I would not panic until they were egg free ten days after you pulled the strips. From the temps you talked about you should not have killed any queens if you treated with the proper number of strips for the size of your hive.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

When I pulled strips last year I didn't have any eggs. Maybe a couple had continued laying, but even they took at least a few day break. 60% seems really high. Can you describe exactly how you applied them?


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## Hogback Honey (Oct 29, 2013)

I did not have any dead queens, but, last year was the first and last I used MAQS. I do believe one of my colonys absconded due to the MAQS, just my gut feeling. They were the more feisty hive, I think they thought formic ants had invaded, and got the heck out of dodge. No dead bees anywhere, no queen, no workers, no drone, no dead brood, whole colony just gone. The other 2 hives did just fine.


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## dudelt (Mar 18, 2013)

My concerns would be if the directions were followed correctly? Was the front entrance fully open? Did you add a super to the top of the hive with frames in it? And finally, why would you be treating for mites in May just as the major flow is about to begin? Personally, I have never seen an issue with mites this early (I live in the same city as the OP) and if treated last year, you should be in pretty good shape right now.


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## Sunday Farmer (Nov 13, 2013)

Hi just throwing my comment in on this-
I had one yard that wasn't treated leaving NC and seeing mite damage so late treatment up north. Using MAQs, never have before. I checked two nucs today. One was small and gave it a half pad (5 frame mediums), eggs in second story. The bigger nuc I gave a full pad. No eggs, no larva. One supercedural cell down bellow and up top in fifth box was my queen and eggs. *whew* I did take the manufacturers advice and add and additional box. I placed it between second and third box, was foundation.


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