# almond pollination



## bee_wrangler (Jan 21, 2007)

How manny hives can you get on the average semi trailer going to the almonds. This is assuming 4 way pallets with migratory lids.

Dan


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## the buzz (Oct 17, 2004)

You can place 26 pallets per level x 3 levels x 4 per pallet = 312 you are better to place 1 cover on the 4 hives on the pallet more stable.

Stephen


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

*How many on a truck*

It all depends on the weight of the bees and capacity of the truck. It's possible to overload a truck with 384 colonies. If they are light you can put 512. Sometimes the problem is they gain weight then you can't send home the same load that came out. Not much savings there.


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## SCFarms (Aug 22, 2008)

That would depend on weight, if you’re running 8 frame or 10 frame hives, if you’re running double deep or deep and a half to how high you stack them and still be legal, and the length of you semi trailer(s). 

I run 10 frame double deep colonies and when I ship them it is on a 48’ flatbed trailer and by stacking them three high I can fit 408 hives. You just have to do the math for our self based on our own operation to see what you can fit.


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

just an aside question somewhat related to bwrangler's question...

in the number posted are these numbers singles, doubles or story and a half?


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

*hive numbers*

With freight rates where they are now I look at it more as a weight issue. Most trucks now can carry 47 to 48 thousand pounds and a good hauler can look at his air gauges and make a pretty close guess. For us the days of 408 are long past. We typically haul about half singles and half doubles (all 10 frame deeps) getting them only heavy enough to get through a couple of months in Cal. before we will begin feeding and supplementing out there. Any hives that dwindle are just combined with another single. Last year we averaged about 550 per load doing this. Just remember that you can buy feed out there, it just dosen't make a lot of sense to ship a lot of syrup weight at a time, seasonally, when the bees don't use much feed. One more tip is to leave a little slack in the net (usually in the back as we normally leave the front row empty) so that the net can easily be pulled up to take a few pallets off after scaling if the truck is heavy. We always say load them up then begin negotiating. Never had a problem with bees coming out of the almonds heavier then they went in.


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## Gregg (Dec 22, 2003)

My hives that I ship are all story and a half (1 deep + 1 medium box, 10 frame equipment) and I can typically get 480 - 512 hives on a semi, all depends on the weight. Our truckers use step deck beds; 480 hives has an empty row on the back of the truck (8 stacks of 3 pallets high on the step deck = 96 hives & 24 stacks of 4 pallets high on the lower part of the bed = 384 hives). 488 hives has an empty row on the front (6 stacks of 3 pallets high on the step deck = 72 hives & 26 stacks of 4 pallets high on the rest = 416 hives). 512 hives uses the entire truck bed, no empty rows (8 stacks of 3 pallets high on the step deck = 96 hives & 26 stacks of 4 pallets high on the rest = 416 hives).

A load of double deeps is typically 408 hives, 34 stacks of 3 pallets high over the whole bed of the truck.


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## the buzz (Oct 17, 2004)

*covers*

what type of covers do you use? migratory? or 1 cover for 4 hives? any pictures of pallet designs ? I'm trying to find a better way to ship them


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## Gregg (Dec 22, 2003)

I use migratory covers. Dimensions of pallets I use are 47 inches (length of three 2 x 4s) by 33 inches (width, use 1 x 6 runners). Mann Lake has a picture of their pallet on their website, very similar to mine.


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## florida pollinator (Jul 31, 2006)

Make moving alot of bees easy, go with 6 way pallets. Some of the best wood for lids is the concrete form plywood,1/2 , 5/8s or 3/4 inch pieces ,you have to cut it. I have a number for a shop in Atlanta. Aluma systems is one company that has it ,which it comes off used forms.
They have shops in Tx, Chicago and Atlanta to name a few. If your in Florida there's a beekeeper in Lakeland that sells it, and someone in texas from this forum that sells it.


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

Jim
last year I fed bees t about 60 % bloom.....then it got hot and they picked up alot of weight......ended up over weigth coming back home and colonies were actually honey bound. located near chowchilla ca in a young orchard and flow seemed to hit toward end of bloom.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

I know my 1 ton flatbeds were dragging coming out of almonds last year.
That reminds me of a buddy who used to get pulled over by the cops every time he went through town with an overload of firewood on his 1 ton.He asked the patrolman one day how they always knew when he had too much weight on. The cop said "EZ- your mudflaps are dragging"
I asked my buddy what he did about it .He said " I cut the flaps shorter"


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

*hive weights*

Sorry guys didn't exactly make myself clear. I meant from the time they are shipped here in SD in Nov. they are always heavier than when they come out of Almonds in Mid March. Certainly they are heavier in Mid March than early February.


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

*Loggermikes' buddy*

Looookinnnn goooodd!!!!


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

>>Certainly they are heavier in Mid March than early February.
It seemed to me that the bees were really burning through the stores this Feb.The bloom was taking so long to come on that we were feeding lots more than normal.They did load up pretty fast once it bloomed.
I don't know the long range forecast for this winter,but we have the first real rain storm of the season coming tomorrow.Our Fall flow of C and H and Brewtech (along with some rabbitbrush)will be winding down shortly.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*but we have the first real rain storm of the season coming tomorrow*

I have checked several weather reports and none of them say how much rain to expect.
Perhaps your area is more detailed in the rain fall prediction.
Please let me know.
Ernie


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Ernie,Heres the one I use the most:
http://www.crh.noaa.gov/product.php?site=NWS&issuedby=STO&product=AFD&format=CI&version=1&glossary=1
They are saying 1 to 3 inches here in the mountains,less in the Valley.
The best indicator of imminent rain in the summer is when I see my neighbors cut their hay:no:


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## MadBowbee (Oct 10, 2006)

Keith, when you say C & H, you mean pure cane sugar right? How do you like it? I heard you can get tankers out of Oakland of that stuff. I'm thinking of switching from liquid sugar to that.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

*1 tons*

A little off thread here but after spending about 6 grand this year on my Ford tonner on all the things that break when you abuse them like most beekeepers do I decided that your better off spending a few thousand more and getting a 450/550 with a 14' bed. I've got 80,000 miles on one and haven't had any of those issues and of course we occasionaly overload that too but they sure seem like a nice compromise between a heavy duty dually pickup and a two ton.

Hope the sky opens up out there and you get some real moisture.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

MBB,

I was just LOL at loggermike's post, because I do the same thing.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

I thought liquid sugar was the same as sucrose.I don't get any deals on dry sugar other than Costco loads the 2500 lbs pallets onto my truck.In fact they jacked the price up 15% a few weeks back.inch:


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## swarm_trapper (Jun 19, 2003)

hey jim never owned a f-550 but i know quite a few guys that do they love the truck heavy duty can pull like crazy BUT, the fuel milage sucks like 7-9 MPG and they are continuay breaking i know five guys with them and all of them have said that the truck spend more time in the shop than moving bees and very expenive fixes also. 
but that is the fords, i my self am looking at a chevy 550 dont know of any one with those, or the new dodge 550 but i wont be finding any of those used for a while.
regards Nick


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## Trevor Mansell (Jan 16, 2005)

swarm_trapper said:


> hey jim never owned a f-550 but i know quite a few guys that do they love the truck heavy duty can pull like crazy BUT, the fuel milage sucks like 7-9 MPG and they are continuay breaking i know five guys with them and all of them have said that the truck spend more time in the shop than moving bees and very expenive fixes also.
> but that is the fords, i my self am looking at a chevy 550 dont know of any one with those, or the new dodge 550 but i wont be finding any of those used for a while.
> regards Nick


The 550 and 5500 size truck are the best size for moving bees , without going to a 2 ton. If you are looking for a used one look at an older f-550 with the 7.3 ,the 6.0 had alot of problems. Or look at a f-550 with a v-10.


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

buy a ford 550......buy a kit for 2,000 for a cummins.....put in a cummins.....now u gotta a truck!!!!!!!!!


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

suttonbeeman said:


> buy a kit for 2,000 for a cummins.....put in a cummins


If the kit is $2,000.... do I want to know how much the cummins motor is...


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## greenbeekeeping (Feb 13, 2003)

I love my 450 but I have had it stuck way more than I want too. (Could be the driver) I would like to upgrade to a 550 in a few years. 4 wheel drive would be nice too.


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## Trevor Mansell (Jan 16, 2005)

greenbeekeeping said:


> I love my 450 but I have had it stuck way more than I want too. (Could be the driver) I would like to upgrade to a 550 in a few years. 4 wheel drive would be nice too.


If you upgrade to a 550 ,you should consider a larger tire . I replaced mine this year and it makes a huge difference.


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## Pooh (Mar 8, 2007)

How many hives are people able to get on their 450/ 550s?


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

It depends on the size of the deck and the pallet configuration. Pallets (4 hives) are 33 inches wide and 4 feet long. So on a 12 foot deck you get 4 pallets each side 2 pallets high, 16 pallets or 64 hives. For every extra 3 feet of deck you'll get another 16 hives.

Jean-Marc


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## high rate of speed (Jan 4, 2008)

Our 550's with a 16 foot deck haul 96 hives heavy or 144 hives lite.That $2000 dollar kit Keith is another $5000 for a decent used cummins motor.


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## MadBowbee (Oct 10, 2006)

Why not just go with the Dodge then? There must be something wrong with them. Is it because of the lower gross vehicle weight, my buddy in Merced that got a new Dodge this year says it doesn't get much better than his 550 and loaded he doesn't like how it shifts.


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## Trevor Mansell (Jan 16, 2005)

MadBowbee said:


> Why not just go with the Dodge then? There must be something wrong with them. Is it because of the lower gross vehicle weight, my buddy in Merced that got a new Dodge this year says it doesn't get much better than his 550 and loaded he doesn't like how it shifts.


What did he get ,the 5500 ?


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## Angi_H (Feb 9, 2008)

That is because Dodge is [edit by mod]. I have had way to many troubles with dodge to even bother buying one again. My husband works for Cal fire and they have had massave troubles with the dodges they bought. Try 3 transmissions before the truck even hit 50,000 miles. Them breaking down at the drop of the hat and them leaking through the engine. Dodge is also known for not recalling things. They wont do it if they dont have to. Even though they know it is an inherited problem with that year/make/model etc. They just wont do it. I say Just say no to Dodge lol.

Angi

Oh and as Far as Rain in the Central Valley of Ca They are saying not looking good for Fresno, Madera, Kings area, Mountains maybe and north yes but down here nada.


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## purvisgs (Apr 5, 2008)

cummins engine its self will run forever - yes you may have tranny problems / etc but there is nothing else around nearly as bulletproof -(not commercial myself but I am a diesel mechanic)


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## Trevor Mansell (Jan 16, 2005)

purvisgs said:


> cummins engine its self will run forever - yes you may have tranny problems / etc but there is nothing else around nearly as bulletproof -(not commercial myself but I am a diesel mechanic)


How are the new Cummins ? I hear the new Dodges are in the shop all the time. Im only trying to do research for a new purchase.


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## purvisgs (Apr 5, 2008)

no personal experience but from the word on the street, I would probably wait a few years before buying the new 6.7 cummins. I have not worked on them myself, people around these parts are too cheap to spend that kind of bank it seems. 5.9 12valve is as solid an engine as you will ever find. 24v is not far behind.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Angi_H said:


> That is because Dodge is a piec of @#$%. I have had way to many troubles with dodge to even bother buying one again. My husband works for Cal fire and they have had massave troubles with the dodges they bought. Try 3 transmissions before the truck even hit 50,000 miles. .


Are these automatic transmissions?

I run a 97 dodge 1 ton 5.9 with a five speed standard transmission, I have 300,000 on her now and runs fine.

"works for cal fire" Hmm.


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## Trevor Mansell (Jan 16, 2005)

purvisgs said:


> no personal experience but from the word on the street, I would probably wait a few years before buying the new 6.7 cummins. I have not worked on them myself, people around these parts are too cheap to spend that kind of bank it seems. 5.9 12valve is as solid an engine as you will ever find. 24v is not far behind.


Sure the 5.9 was a great engine, so was the 7.3 but those days are over. Now we are stuck with these new ones. I hear the new Dodge is having problems ,wich is to bad because the ford is no better.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Trevor Mansell said:


> Sure the 5.9 was a great engine, so was the 7.3 but those days are over. Now we are stuck with these new ones..


Why do you have to buy new?

Never bought a new truck in my life & never paid over $10,000 for one.


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## dbest (Aug 9, 2005)

I use an FL- 80 freightliner with an 18' bed. With the big tires I can go through anything a F-550 4X4 can while pulling a bobcat. I get 12 miles to the gallon fully loaded and it gross' out at 33,000. I buy new tires when they wear out not when they get hot and blow. It turns the same as the newer wide front F-550. It has an 8.3 litre engine with 270 horse power. Cummins recommends over haul at 1,000,000 miles. I got mine with the 9 speed and 3:73 gears the rear end has an air locker.


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## Action (Jan 8, 2005)

*You sure?*

OK? You sure it does that well?
Jack


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## dbest (Aug 9, 2005)

Want to race? We'll start with a full tank of fuel and see who can move more bees. A blueberry grove during a thunderstorm should be a good course.


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

Besides my 98 dodge 3500 12 valve with almost 300K and two transmissions, I also have a freightliner tandem that can gross 54,000. 22 ft flatbed with 4 ft sleeper....my home away from home. But there are places i cant get the freightliner.....so I use my dodge....at 19 mpg or 15 pulling a swinger. As far as Ford goes....like I said a great truck but a powerjoke for a engine. Had a 2001...spent more time getting worked on than being driven and yes I have put two transmissions in my dodge but I have made many trips to florida grossing 21,000 to 27 or 28,000 so I cant complain!


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

suttonbeeman said:


> Besides my 98 dodge 3500 12 valve with almost 300K and two transmissions,


Suttonbee, is that a stick transmission? That 28,000 is alot for a one ton.


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## dbest (Aug 9, 2005)

How many tires do you put on that dodge a year? Is that 28,000 pulling your big trailer?


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## swarm_trapper (Jun 19, 2003)

bought my dodge with 320k miles on it now i have 370k still going strong getting it ready to make the winter trip now, have to get new tires on her in the next week or two any suggestions? the more aggressive the better, (its only two wheel drive). regards Nick


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## Trevor Mansell (Jan 16, 2005)

Keith Jarrett said:


> Why do you have to buy new?
> 
> Never bought a new truck in my life & never paid over $10,000 for one.


I do buy used , when I can. Dodge never made a chassis cab with a 5.9 that I could put a 12foot bed on . The only ones that are out there are ones that have been streched. I would prefer a 4500 or 5500 series truck, I pull a bobcat alot and the one tons dont quite have enough.


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## florida pollinator (Jul 31, 2006)

Have your welder add about a foot to the frame,and you can put a 12 foot bed on a f-350 or dodge 3500.
I have an f 350 that has a 12 foot bed now (never will have another) and had a dodge 3500 the same way.
I'm going back to the Cummins next time,I don't care what frame it's in!


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## dbest (Aug 9, 2005)

One thing I also like about my truck is that I can pull honey on a few hundred hive without having to go home in the middle of the day to unload . My father loves his 10 wheeler but its way to much truck for me to drive. I got sick of cutting down trees and putting mail boxes back up. 

Here's a pic of a load of orange honey:










and one after I won the "you need a 4X4 bet"


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## sjvbee (Dec 27, 2006)

dbest said:


> Want to race? We'll start with a full tank of fuel and see who can move more bees. A blueberry grove during a thunderstorm should be a good course.


 I have the perfect blueberry field. And if you can move more than me. I will be happy to tell everyone that you did.

Scott


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## dbest (Aug 9, 2005)

Lets go! I can haul 144 triple deep hives in one load. But you already knew that. 

P.S. Gonna be at the meeting?


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## greenbeekeeping (Feb 13, 2003)

If you guys are going to race I wanna watch. haha.

Matt


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

greenbeekeeping said:


> If you guys are going to race I wanna watch. haha.
> 
> Matt


What do you think Matt? Clowns talking about moving race into the berries on a almond thread.


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## high rate of speed (Jan 4, 2008)

We need the little popcorn man for this one.Lol


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## 1reb (Jul 29, 2008)

who going to tape this event?


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## greenbeekeeping (Feb 13, 2003)

Thats true Keith it is an almond thread but if they wait for the berries its a closer ticket price for me though. haha.


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## MadBowbee (Oct 10, 2006)

Since your da best, DBEST, had to comment on your pic. If you went to six way pallets you wouldn't have had to double stack your pallets, less forklifting, faster, and a safer load. Unless your forklift can't pick up that much. Also I hope the smoker bungeed to your step was temporary and not going down the highway like that. Can you say "sidebox."


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## dbest (Aug 9, 2005)

My smoker is always there. I hate having a lit smoker inside a tool box, I've never had one fall off if you notice it stayed on while being drug thought the mud. I've tried 6 way pallets, I didn't like them. I move the hives around on the pallets before almonds and right before blueberries to make sure the weak ones stay behind and middle one was a pain in the neck. Also when I was attempting to convert it was cluster trying to load 4 ways and 6 ways onto the same truck, to switch all 2500 in one year would be a nightmare.


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## sjvbee (Dec 27, 2006)

I still win dbest. When your bobcat is stuck all nite long. Maybe Greenbeekeeping will come up and pull you out with his swinger just to make it fair.

P.S. I'll be at the meeting Friday . I'll buy lunch


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## dbest (Aug 9, 2005)

The problem with the swinger is its only 2 wheel drive , 1 front and 1 rear. If you have locker then its 3 wheel drive. I still win...its ok.


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## greenbeekeeping (Feb 13, 2003)

I'll pull him out......but I have had the swinger stuck once too.....


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Aw....

But when you put the tracks on the skid-steer it will pull the swinger out of the mud side ways.


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## high rate of speed (Jan 4, 2008)

And dig itself in the ground even deeper.:doh:


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## moposcar (Apr 5, 2002)

swarm_trapper said:


> hey jim never owned a f-550 but i know quite a few guys that do they love the truck heavy duty can pull like crazy BUT, the fuel milage sucks like 7-9 MPG and they are continuay breaking i know five guys with them and all of them have said that the truck spend more time in the shop than moving bees and very expenive fixes also.
> but that is the fords, i my self am looking at a chevy 550 dont know of any one with those, or the new dodge 550 but i wont be finding any of those used for a while.
> regards Nick


I have a Dodge 4500 4X4 with 11.5 ft. bed and 4 door (use it mainly for another business), but it is nice for hauling bees. No problems and I get 11 to 12 mpg. 7.5 mpg pulling a 29 ft gooseneck with 10k on it. The dodge and cummins is the best truck hands down if you ask me.


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## heartbeat (Nov 18, 2004)

.....


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## Trevor Mansell (Jan 16, 2005)

moposcar said:


> I have a Dodge 4500 4X4 with 11.5 ft. bed and 4 door (use it mainly for another business), but it is nice for hauling bees. No problems and I get 11 to 12 mpg. 7.5 mpg pulling a 29 ft gooseneck with 10k on it. The dodge and cummins is the best truck hands down if you ask me.


Have you had any problems with the particulate filter?


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## Mathispollenators (Jun 9, 2008)

*For the race*

I'll supply the bees for the race. Daddy can be the starter on the Fla side and I'll be here in Ga at the finish line. One Question who supplies the fuel for the race? But you guys are a little late I have most of the ours moved up here already. Maybe we could wait until our watermelon pollenation starts and I'm moving them back to Chiefland. That would give time for the group to gather for the race. 

 Now nobody accuse me of trying to get our bees moved for free please. I'm really not that smart.


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## dbest (Aug 9, 2005)

oh I wouldn't think of it.


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## Eaglerock (Jul 8, 2008)

Has anyone used Trains to move them? If so what did you save $$$ wise.


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