# Nosema ceranae



## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

http://www.moraybeekeepers.co.uk/nosema.htm
As usual ,the Europeans get to deal with this first,unless we already have it here.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

Sure sounds VERY similar to what we have happening in this area. Here we go again. Survival of the fittest.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

http://www.inapicoltura.org/online/primopiano%203.htm

http://parasitology.researchtoday.net/archive/2/5/622.htm


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Maybe one of our European friends can shed some light on how big a problem it is.I did some quick googling on this and found it 'apparently' can be controlled with fumidil.Not easy to tell from nosema apis either. I'm not suggesting this is the cause of the recent US losses,just something else to worry about!


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

From your first link:
"The presently available information (September 2006) demonstrates N. ceranae in honey bee samples from several European countries, from various Italian regions included, and in others collected in North and South America. The available data do not allow speculation on the pathway that brought N. ceranae outside its area of origin."
(09/29/06)

HUH???


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Where in N America did they find this?


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

Thats a great question. I would like to know too. PA maybe??


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

"I'm not suggesting this is the cause of the recent US losses,just something else to worry about!" - loggermike

It appears they are taking this very seriously in the UK and Europe. We need to keep our eyes open and be vigilant. It may already be here. If not, its just a matter of time.

It would be nice to hear from some of our friends overseas about this new threat. We look forward to hearing from you. 

http://www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/Newsletters/May2006.htm

http://www.ubka.org/ubka/Information/nosema.html


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

so is this simply a genetic variant of 'the old' nosema disease? if so??? then one would suspect that 'the problem' is isolated to northern overwintered hives and feed additives (fumidil) are available as a remedy.


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## Robert Brenchley (Apr 23, 2000)

I haven't heard of large losses due to Nosema, but most beeks think in terms of dysentery = Nosema, and it isn't necessarily so. I have lost hives overwinter and had large numbers of bees dead in the hives come spring, but I'd put this down to queen failure. I think it's a case of regular microscopic examination from now on, and hoping it's not there! If it is, fumidil should sort it.

On the face of it, I think this is probably more likely as a cause of weak hives than dead ones, but time and testing will tell.


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## Troy (Feb 9, 2006)

There are so many parts of this problem that don't quite fit that it is clearly in need of more study.

For one it was my understanding that nosema is traditionally more of a problem in bees stuck in the hive in a colder winter environment, yet many of the colony deaths are in the south (FL and GA) where it is still warm enough for the bees to fly.

It was also my understanding that among the natural distribution of bee genetics many lines of bees are not terribly bothered by nosema disease. That is to say they get the disease, but they dont all die off from it. So we should not be seeing a nearly 100% kill rate. It should be lower. I mean if it were 60% it would still be catastrophic, but the numbers just dont work out is all Im saying. 

I hope the scholars that are coming down to look at this can give us a preliminary report early next week.

Y'all have got me worried sick over this. Ive been out of town, and havent checked my bees for over two weeks - its gonna be 75F today, and Im going to go out and take a look.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

>>On the face of it, I think this is probably more likely as a cause of weak hives than dead ones, 

Thats what I think also.And weak hives do not make for good pollinators(or good bank accounts). Nosema can weaken hives without there being any noticeable dysentary .I've posted this article before ,but its worth looking at again :
http://entomology.ucdavis.edu/faculty/mussen/1-2-99.pdf


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## Flyer Jim (Apr 22, 2004)

Thanks Mike


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

> For one it was my understanding that nosema is traditionally more of a problem in bees stuck in the hive in a colder winter environment, yet many of the colony deaths are in the south (FL and GA) where it is still warm enough for the bees to fly. <

Troy,
If you have time do a google search on Nosema "Ceranae". Seems it has been an ongoing problem with the "Asian" Honeybee for years, but has recently been discovered in European Honeybees and seems to now be spreading rapidly. It differs from the Nosema we have been used to in that it can hit at any time throughout the year, not just in overwintered confined colonies.
Since this form of Nosema has just recently effected Apis Mellifera, I'm guessing there will be a culling in the gene pool of bees that have not been bred for resistance to this form of Nosema.


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## Troy (Feb 9, 2006)

Yes, I read the info Nosema Cerana this AM too. Being that I have no means to test for this, I can only hope that is not it. I dont think using fumidil without knowing that nosema is the problem is a good idea.

The good news is that I went out and took a look at my 5 colonies today and they are all doing fine. 1 is a little weak, but they are out flying in the cloudy 74F weather we are having here today. They are only covering about 8 of the 10 frames and those outside frames have some SHB on them, but I saw no larvae and the bees seem to be giving the beetles a hard time, which is always good to see.


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## Robert Brenchley (Apr 23, 2000)

Traditionally Nosema has mainly been a visible problem when bees haven't been able to get out for a cleansing flight and have ended up pooping in the hive. But allegedly it's much more widespread as an invisible cause of weakened hives. i'm going to start checking and see whether it's affecting my bees.


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## Trevor Mansell (Jan 16, 2005)

I believe there is a way to test for nosema by pulling a bee apart and looking at her guts. I read a article from New Zeland about treating honey and bee products comming from Australia for Nosema Carane. If its in Austrailia we are obviously going to get it thru package bees comming into Cal.. Using fumidil should not hurt anything ,its better to be safe than sorry.


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## Robert Brenchley (Apr 23, 2000)

You can spot an infected gut by dissection, but to be totally sure you need to verify it with a high-power microscope. I'm currently trying to track down a dissecting microscope at college so as to have a crack at it.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

I found this interesting,especially the action of thymol on nosema.
http://72.14.253.104/custom?q=cache:K82JquZ65osJ:www.rirdc.gov.au/reports/HBE/01-046.pdf+The+Effects+of+Thymol+on+Nosema&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=2&client=pub-2197911078637297


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

I have not been able to confirm if nosema ceranae has been identified in Australia.But it appears that the spores can be transported in honey and pollen from infected hives.I think New Zealand was trying to protect itself from honey being transshipped through Australia from China,thus the requirement that bee products be heat treated or irradiated before entry.No such requirements here,so now wouldn't be surprised to find this new strain cropping up in the USA if anyone cares to do the tests.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

This was just posted on BEE L:
http://pub.ucsf.edu/today/print.php?news_id=200704251

"The Army's Edgewood Chemical Biological Center at the Aberdeen Proving Ground in Maryland sent DeRisi samples to analyze from bees in the Central Valley of California. DeRisi and Ganem identified a parasite known to have caused massive bee losses in the last decade in Asia and Europe, making it a strong candidate as a culprit responsible for bee collapse in the US. The parasite is called Nosema ceranae,.....


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## hummingberd (Aug 26, 2006)

Great, another smack in the face. Just another thing to have to "deal with." It's only an issue because we keep bees, get attached to them, depend on them for income or food or pollination (which I guess is repetitive.) 

Sigh...for ferals it will be survival of the fittest. For beekeepers, it just means we'll get to run around like a bunch of crazies...even more!


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Right, all this stuff creates major work loads and takes the fun out of keeping bees. But the alternative of letting the fittest survive and the rest die means maybe some will survive, but the beekeeper will go BK (and I dont mean to Burger king).


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

hummingberd said:


> Great, another smack in the face. Just another thing to have to "deal with."
> 
> Hey, Hey,
> 
> Its just a little fumagilin in your fall feeding, not the end of the world, guys.


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## HoneyBeeGood (Mar 20, 2005)

Its just a little fumagilin in your fall feeding, not the end of the world, guys.[/QUOTE]

Hum trying to remember Keiths personality and understand if this is a joke. I follow you fellows sparing when I do not have paint to watch drying, but do not have you all clearly sorted out by individual bombastic behaviour types.

I guess if this is Not a wry joke. It is the mentality I do not miss from my roots in the Red states. Euro centric folks are pretty sure this above mentality is the one they can count on from the US of A to start wars, set of N bombs and fill prisons. Short sighted solutions are out of favour here for the most part.

AND point of this foggy... early for me post..... AND this is 'the mentality' that hopefully will be wrung out of the industry by desperation to keep stocks alive. HELLO thinking about bees with new repsect and not heavy handed must be what this conversation is about isn't IT?

IT is broke we do have to fix it! thinking out of the Box???

If it was a joke comment, I did laughed but in pain. And had had just enough coffee in me to join the fray!

Stuck to the Floor


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## Brent Bean (Jun 30, 2005)

I find it quite humors to have someone from England accuse Americans of being hard headed war mongers. I guess the apple don’t fall far from the tree, seems history has England starting and fighting more wars than the US has. The English policy for a very long time was make the world England. Didn’t matter if the people wanted it that way or not. Seems like a lot of animosity towards a country that bailed you out of two wars.


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## HoneyBeeGood (Mar 20, 2005)

*Bees not WWII*

Brent I am American (Grandma got there in 1609) Now days I am a world citizen, since living here(SW England) the last ten yrs my eyes are open to how much Americas turn to be the world power has to closely followed the Brit expample of exploitation.

I think we have to quit exploitating the bees! that is what this surely is about!

My family were/are orchardist. Mostly peaches and other fruits. It took 240 on the payroll to pick and pack the cherry crop and you can guess how many bees to pollentate it.

If you would like to sling arrows back at this post it would be better placed at my being a child of the 60's and my late life resurging 'granola' tendencies. I hope when I get moved back to 'where ever' stateside in a few yrs. That the rest of the idealist 'boomers' remember we were planing on making a diifference. Once out of the grind and in retirement I really hope things yank style are truely 'shook swarmed' culture wide.

I hope this has not been to 'off topic'. I come here to glean the 'better links' about the research. I thank all who post serious stuff in here for everyones benifit. I then spread photo copies around my dear provencial duffers friends who are too busy keeping up with our own hobbist problems to know what fun it is to watch you REAL bee keepers-killers operate.

Stuck to the Floor
A foot on BOTH sides of the pond. 
More worried about the future than the past.


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

Its my understanding that "a little fumagilin in your fall feeding" will not take care of it in some instances as it can surface any time of year. Say for example right in the middle of a honey flow, or some other inconvenient time to feed fumagilin, for example during a time of year a commercial beek can't get around to checking to see if a hive has Nosema or not. 

Although I guess we don't really know what its going to be like yet. Just add it to the list.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Keith was just giving good advice.I would add that its a good idea to feed a gallon of fumidil syrup to packages when first hived.These bees are STRESSED and need the best start possible.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

LoggerMike, well said

What I was trying to say was, we have treaments for Nosema, it's not the end of the world.

Having said that, is it expensive' yes, but so are D.O.

We put our bees on a program in the fall here in Calif. The first gallon has Antibiotics mixed in, then the last two have Fumagilin-B in the mix. We don't wait to see if we have Nosema in Dec-Jan to treat, we feel our 7-10% winter loss makes up for the over kill (treatments) in the fall. One has to look at lossed pollination or the cost of a package and make a choice, pay now or pay later.
We here in Calif have a cool week coming and have 1500 pounds of bees to shake, I will spend the extra ten dollars in treatment to get back eighty dollars in sales and not have a warehouse full of empty equipment.

Keith


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

LoggerMike, well said

What I was trying to say was, we have treaments for Nosema, it's not the end of the world.

Having said that, is it expensive' yes, but so are D.O.

We put our bees on a program in the fall here in Calif. The first gallon has Antibiotics mixed in, then the last two have Fumagilin-B in the mix. We don't wait to see if we have Nosema in Dec-Jan to treat, we feel our 7-10% winter loss makes up for the over kill (treatments) in the fall. One has to look at lossed pollination or the cost of a package and make a choice, pay now or pay later.
We here in Calif have a cool week coming and have 1500 pounds of bees to shake, I will spend the extra ten dollars in treatment to get back eighty dollars in sales and not have a warehouse full of empty equipment.

Keith


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## Chrissy Shaw (Nov 21, 2006)

*The commercial operation is the wrong place to develop...*

resistance. And while it may irk some that i say this, for the time being the commercial operators need ot pay their bills and make some pocket change. But this problem is still being looked at as an (either or), it need not be. There is evidence and indeed studies regarding resistance to nosema and if there is stock in Europe that has come through this, there is also indications of traits yet to be defined, from which a bee that can handle the nosema diseases, mites, AFB and the rest. Those avenues must be coursed by smaller breeders, aiming at bees tha twill not only fit the needs of the chemical free people, but commercial beekeeping as well. 

This will take time and money on that side as well, but as time has gone on there is more labor and more labor added to the commercial operation following the quick cures. At some point, given the current direction, that profit margin will lose to elaborations. It therefore, imo, is to the benefit of the commercial beekeeper to see to it that genetc answers are sought and found to some, if not all of these problems by those capable to find them.

Chrissy Shaw


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