# CFIA report complete Re: Can/US Border



## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

sharpdog said:


> http://manitobabee.org/hive/wp-cont...13-Honeybeepackages-from-USA_Oct21_2013-2.pdf
> 
> The Animal Health Risk Assessment unit of Canadian Food Inspection Agency released its final report in late October on Honey Bee Package imports from USA. The report essentially concludes: *“Prohibition on Importation of Honey Bee Packages from continental USA will remain in effect, as it has since 1987″.
> *
> ...



Thanks for the heads up. Many large queen and Package producers in NORCAL have been waiting for this to come out before setting prices for 2104. *Can we all say "lose- lose."* As one who can get rid of all the packages and queens we can produce already this doesn't affect me that much so I have very little skin in this game. Not quite sure what the Canadian equivalent of APHIS is trying to accomplish here besides keeping prices "above market" for purchasers to our north. If it hasn't happened frequently already I have a hard time imagining that the long border of the US and Canada has not already been "penetrated" by queens and packages that just happen to "swarm" over the border.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Sure they have. A barbed wire fence won't keep swarms from migrating into Canada. Here in NY I know apiaries that are so close to the border that you could spit across the fence into Quebec.

Is there such a thing in Canada as APHIS is in the US? Canada is a bunch of conjoined "Countries" called Provinces. W/in my time here in Northern NY Quebec almost desolved their union w/ the rest of the Nation of Canada.

In Ontario the Provincial Apiarist has a Tech Transfer Team which carries out Apiary Inspection and Education. But that is w/in Ontario. I don't know if they have anything which spans the Provincial Borders.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Half of the Canadian beekeeping industry is cheering, the other half is grumbling. Very divisive topic up here


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

sqkcrk said:


> Is there such a thing in Canada as APHIS is in the US? Canada is a bunch of conjoined "Countries" called Provinces. W/in my time here in Northern NY Quebec almost devolved their union w/ the rest of the Nation of Canada.
> 
> In e Provincial Borders.


Federalism holds strong in Canada


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Ian said:


> Federalism holds strong in Canada


So what is your equivalent agency to our Animal Plant Health Inspection Service?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

CFIA, Canadian Food Inspections Agency

>>Animal Health Risk Assessment unit of Canadian Food Inspection Agency <<


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

Ian said:


> CFIA, Canadian Food Inspections Agency
> 
> >>Animal Health Risk Assessment unit of Canadian Food Inspection Agency <<


One time when I called Ottawa (cfia) regarding a question about transporting our almonds through BC and the Yukon territories on our way to Alaska I was frankly supremely impressed by the effort and promptness in giving me a correct answer. I had no issues at the border. Wish we could get a straight answer out of a USDA employee here in the states. Seems they spend more time playing the CYA game than getting down to business for their customers.


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

Ian said:


> Half of the Canadian beekeeping industry is cheering, the other half is grumbling.  Very divisive topic up here


I would imagine 1/2 here would love to see new markets and pastures open and 1/2 don't want to share pollination and wintering.

My guess is most areas of the US would benefit. Canadians are just like Americans except unarmed and polite


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

>>supremely impressed by the effort and promptness<<

Glad to hear that! 
They ain't always a cup of tea...


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## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

Ian said:


> Half of the Canadian beekeeping industry is cheering, the other half is grumbling. Very divisive topic up here


It is. I've listened to folks with opinions on both sides of that fence. There isn't a lot of middle ground either, at least between the folks I've talked to. I have no skin in this game, other than we bought expensive packages, once, and have propogated forward from within, on a very small scale. But I have noticed a trend on both sides of the arguement, talking to folks running bees at a much larger scale than us.

Those who have had good success wintering over the last decade or so, want to keep the border closed, for fear of introducing new 'stuff'. Those who have had poor success wintering, feel they wont be able to survive financially if they dont get access to less expensive bees.

But I'm curious about your part of the world Ian? Is there a similar correlation, or are there other factors in play ?

Would you be treading into fearful territory to tell us your own personal view ? Would you like the border open, or like to see it remain closed ? I'm particularily curious because you often bring a well rounded view to discussions here, moreso than many.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

I have been taken to task a few times from what I say about this topic from fellow beekeepers up here on each side if the fence. There are a lot of beekeepers who satellite this site that never contribute to the conversation. 

Where do you think I stand?


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

> There are a lot of beekeepers who satellite this site that never contribute to the conversation. 

_Ian _makes a good point. The number of _non-members_ viewing Beesource is significantly greater than the number of _members _viewing Beesource at any given time. Here are the current statistics, as of just before my post:


> There are currently 433 users online. 74 members and 359 guests
> 
> http://www.beesource.com/forums/forum.php



That is about 5 non-members viewing for every single Beesource member viewing, and seems to be typical of the times I have checked the numbers. You can check the numbers yourself at any time by following the link above. Scroll to the very bottom of the page to see the statistics.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

Graham, this isn't an accurate analysis. I'm often reading and not logged in...I'm sure I'm not the only one.

deknow


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

I agree that the numbers are not likely to be _accurate_. 

However, whether one is logged in or not does not _necessarily _determine which category a viewer may be in, unless all cookies are removed at the end of the viewing session. That is an issue that would require examination of the method _vBulletin _uses to calculate those statistics. I stand by my assertion that non-member viewers _significantly _outnumber Beesource member viewers.


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

Ian said:


> Where do you think I stand?



As a Farmer I would guess your position is more dependent on the details. The "if"question isn't as important as the "how". 

I would hope that if they open the borders it isn't turned into a tax revenue source. Strike a deal that is fair and offered everyone reasonable protection then allow people to work hard and make a living.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Here is the deal, the way I see it anyway.

I would like the boarder to open to packages. As I could see a tremendous amount of benefit the US packages would provide our industry. There is constant argument about how available, or how cheap those packages will actually be but follow the laws of business, and if there is a demand supply will follow. It will happen.

What would I do if the boarder would open to packages next week? Id put in a standing offer of 500 each year, winter 500 hives up here ( only the best ) and run a hybrid operation. Packages in to refresh my stock ( hit with Oxalic before hiving to take down the varroa mites) and winter the other half to ensure I have bees to run my business incase of package shortages. 
Besides, we have developed a very finely tuned wintering strategy and Im not willing to drop it. 
I could get into more detail but that is pretty much the jist.

The concerns I would have is if we creak open the boarder even a little bit, these bull headed jerkholes would continue on with their campaign to get the boarder fully open which would then provide access for US migratory beekeepers to park their hives. Canadian beekeepers cover our landscape very efficiently here, and its not too crowded most places. If I know large operators like the rest of us know large operators, they will not give a flying fart about us and drop hundreds of hives in locations just so they can be maintained and perhaps get a bit of honey off them.

So, because I feel the treat of loosing our territory is too great, I fall on the side of keeping the boarder closed. *Once the imported packages even out the pest differences between the boarders, we then loose the legitimate reason for keep the boarder closed. Bees on comb would follow suit,*


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## Nick Noyes (Apr 28, 2005)

How many hives are currently being managed in Canada?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

6 or 700 000 I think


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

Details!
I didn't expect that answer from Ian. 

If the border were open wouldn't lots of Canadian beekeepers take hives south?
Wouldn't there be a new market selling hives and shook bees at the end of the Canadian season for US beekeepers. 

I find it impossible to believe that there is no room for more hives in Canada. It's not like here in Florida where every good spot an apiary is full.
:lookout:


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## Birds&Bees (Feb 26, 2009)

The issue is importation of package bees into Canada, only package bees, bees on comb are prohibited and the desire is for that to remain prohibited in both directions. 

If access was granted to US packages, the price would surely increase as would availability. At $2+ per pound for honey, a package costing only $65 dollars delivered to Manitoba will start a gold rush, empty yards would fill up fast without migratory bees on comb. Temporary foreign workers are routinely employed on commercial honey farms which is a game changer in an industry where labour shortages can be very restrictive to growth. The larger established honey producers would surely live up to their name and easily double their hive numbers. 

CFIA has maintained prohibition, thus we Canadian beekeepers need to focus on management to thrive and prosper. Strong and consistent prices for honey will allow us to prosper just fine. 

Soybeans have gained a foothold in Manitoba, if the farmers realize greater profit growing soy vs canola, we could potentially be seeing a lot less yellow in the coming years, you just have to consider how quickly Argentina's honey crops softened when farmers tilled up bee pasture and planted soybeans in their place.


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## Chip Euliss (Sep 2, 2010)

I suspect the number of hives would increase if Canada would open their border given the higher honey yields and honey quality. The number of hives in North Dakota has increased substantially over the past decade even though the number of colonies in the US has declined. Our yields have gone down and most bee keepers feel the loss of habitat (mostly private conservation lands [CRP, etc] but also conversion of crops for the biofuel market) and crowded conditions are to blame. Our state typically leads the nation in honey production but we have LOTS more bees than other states. This year, North Dakota had nearly 500,000 registered colonies. When you factor in South Dakota, and western Minnesota, the density of bees in the northern prairie is much higher than elsewhere in the US (I think we have 2.7 or 2.8 million colonies in the entire US) during the honey producing season. With the loss of habitat, North Dakota isn't the great place to make honey crops it used to be. I have several friends who are seriously considering summering their bees in more southerly locations!!


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

Chip Euliss said:


> I have several friends who are seriously considering summering their bees in more southerly locations!!



When you say SOUTHERLY I hope you mean nothing north of tierra del fuego. The congestion in California has become proportionate to the feds inability to keep the deficit under control. With all the money being made (lol) in beekeeping the feedlot is getting way to crowded (col)


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## Chip Euliss (Sep 2, 2010)

Honey-4-All said:


> When you say SOUTHERLY I hope you mean nothing north of tierra del fuego. The congestion in California has become proportionate to the feds inability to keep the deficit under control. With all the money being made (lol) in beekeeping the feedlot is getting way to crowded (col)


Si


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## irwin harlton (Jan 7, 2005)

There was an initial negative decision back prior to 2003 on the importation of US queens.After submissions and reasons for opening the border an decision was made to open the border by CFIA .So this could happen again.The only downsides I can see are the possibility of a fast spread of a parasite like Tropilaelaps clareae. or a unique virus, we pretty well have everything that is in the US.
Also bees and bee equipment values would drop to the value of what packages would cost delivered.No doubt colony numbers would go up and bee pasture might become a little harder to come by, but surely not as bad as North Dakota, where you see beeyards every 3 miles.It will not be a fast decision and I remember some of the worst opposers back in 2003 were the first in line to buy US queens, I guess the old adage if you cannot win ,join them ,applied


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## Jonathan Hofer (Aug 10, 2005)

irwin harlton said:


> bee pasture might become a little harder to come by, but surely not as bad as North Dakota


What would prevent it from happening just as bad as in ND?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

US Beekeepers would need to contract their hives out to Canadian producers because they would have no way of managing their hives across the boarder. Even if their work force made it into Canada, how many would make it back into the US ?


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## Ben Little (Apr 9, 2012)

When we Canadians have to pay an unrealistic price for imported package bees ($157-$165 for 1KG) , it makes it harder for Beekeepers to recover the cost if even the slightest problem like early queen failures , absconding etc ,and there is no available queens or something along those lines. 
I think the package bees should be a little more *affordable* from over seas , but selling a 2Lb package of bees in the US for 65-75 is way too cheap ! my plans are doing what someone posted here earlier and buy a larger amount of packages this coming spring (100) and splitting after pollination by 40% overall increase, so I can withstand some losses and HOPE to god that I never need packages again ! I could still withstand 5-10% loss in summer and 20-25 % in winter and come through winter with a 5-10% increase without buying any bees.

The border laws are there for a reason and there is nothing we can do about it anyways . It will probably never change, but what do I know, I am just a dumb young feller !


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