# How often should we be opening the hive?



## b.walden

My daughter and love working with the hive, and we have been in it 4 times the last two weeks. we don't open it unless the temp is over 50 degrees. but now that we know that things are well and how fast they are using the syrup, how often should we be opening the hive? We don't want to do harm to the bees.

-Bill


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## kiwiBee

Bill in my opinion you can open your bees as much as you like taking the waether into account of course.
I dont see that it does them any harm at all especially when they are on a flow and too busy to worry that you are there.
I open my cell raisers and finishers everyday in the season and dosn't seem to make any difference to them.

half the fun of having a beehive is getting in amongst it and seeing what they are up too.

kiwi


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## bigbearomaha

Since you asked, There are varying suggestions you will find in the many books and postings out there.

Most will likely suggest one shouldn't go through a 'full' inspection more than once a week, others might suggest not more than once every couple weeks and others will go so far as to say that a 'full, comb by comb inspection is only warranted twice a year with lesser inspections that involve more entrance observations and quick checks under the lid sparingly so as to least disturb the hive scent and activity.

There's a lot one can learn from just watching the entrance. of course, that said, there's a lot to be learned from opening the hive.

You have to develop a schedule that works best for you and the bees in your yard.

My own thinking is that each hive and bee yard has it's own 'personality' in terms of what i twill and will not tolerate.

Big Bear


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## beez2010

This just my two cents. I really don't belive that they don't care how often your in there. (Sorry!)

http://www.thewarrestore.com/hiveinspections.htm

Again, just my opinion.

Chris


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## b.walden

No need to be sorry we like being out there and working with them I just didn't want to hurt anything.


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## Paraplegic Racehorse

I don't know that there is not a proper answer for "should". From the standpoint of the bees, we should never open the hive. Every time we so much as crack a propolis seal, let alone actually move boards or combs, we alter the micro-climate maintained within the hive. That micro-climate is a complex homogeneity of ventilating air currents, temperature and moisture variations, gas compositions, chemical (hormone) mixtures, auditory or vibratory status and signals, right on down to microscopic flora and fauna. It takes time and energy to re-establish a workable micro-climate.

Some folks will guffaw at the idea of nest scent and temperature. Great. Let them. The bees notice. If not for extreme sensitivity to small changes in atmosphere, how can drones find a virgin on her mating flight when miles away and upwind?!? If you think the bees don't notice, you're delusional.

There also is your time and labor and enjoyment to consider. Working the bees is, well, work. Plenty of bending and lifting and squinting at tiny things with the sun and sweat in your eyes and that constant tickle in your nose that tells you you're gonna sneeze. And they sting. But watching these critters fly and run about and live their lives and do other bee things on their combs is fascinating, can be watched for hours and is more educational than a whole season of Nova! And it is oddly relaxing seeing them buzz about; just gives you a peaceful feeling that all is right with the world.

So. Ideally, you disturb the hive once per year - at honey harvest.

Practically, though, you are unlikely to cause any severe deleterious affects if you're in the hive every day. There may be some brood lost to chilling and you'll probably get a little less honey and maybe more propolis if you aren't careful to scrape every time you're there. Ultimately, if you're in the hive to be a tourist, invest in an observation hive. In fact, get one anyway. They're just fun.


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## brac

Paraplegic Racehorse said:


> So. Ideally, you disturb the hive once per year - at honey harvest.
> 
> .


Well, I hope nobody near me takes that advise, I want everyone in my area to inspect for diease and temperment at least a few times a year.


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## buckbee

What are you doing opening hives just because the temp is over 50 deg? Leave the bees alone, unless you have a GOOD reason to open them - i.e a better reason than idle curiosity.


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## kiwiBee

buckbee said:


> What are you doing opening hives just because the temp is over 50 deg? Leave the bees alone, unless you have a GOOD reason to open them - i.e a better reason than idle curiosity.


I dont get this? why do you feel you have to leave the bees alone?

How will you learn anything about a beehive if you dont know what you are looking at?
You wont know whats normal ,
you wont know if your hive conditions have changed
you wont know if they need feed or pollen or treatments or whether they have a failing queen or about to swarm or anything!

These guys are new to bees and have the thrill of learning about there bees ahead of them, they should be getting their heads into their hive and learning if they dont the next time you get a post from them it will be...

Last time we looked in our hive it was fine now it's got no bees and no brood what's wrong what do we do?

Kiwi


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## jonathan

Paraplegic Racehorse said:


> how can drones find a virgin on her mating flight when miles away and upwind?!? If you think the bees don't notice, you're delusional.


Drones don't find virgins, virgins find drones. The virgin usually flies to a drone congregation area where they mate.



kiwiBee said:


> I dont get this? why do you feel you have to leave the bees alone?
> 
> How will you learn anything about a beehive if you dont know what you are looking at?


That's true, but beginners need to be careful that they don't do damage especially squashing the queen.


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## peacekeeperapiaries

open, enjoy, and inspect your hive on a regular basis. Its the only way you are going to learn, and also the only way you will know if a problem arrises. Be careful, move slow, and pay attention, but most of all enjoy!!!! I applaud you getting your daughter involved, both my kids love to go to the beeyards and look at the bees.


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## buckbee

peacekeeperapiaries said:


> open, enjoy, and inspect your hive on a regular basis. Its the only way you are going to learn, and also the only way you will know if a problem arrises. Be careful, move slow, and pay attention, but most of all enjoy!!!! I applaud you getting your daughter involved, both my kids love to go to the beeyards and look at the bees.


IMO that is exactly the attitude that has caused so many losses to disease and so-called CCD. The more you disturb a colony, the more you stress them. The more you stress them, the more susceptible to infection they become. The more you open the hive and break their defensive propolis seal, the more opportunities for invasive bacteria and viruses. 

Unlike us, bees have a very limited internal immune system - most of it is externalized as a propolis shield. Every time you open the hive and poke around, you tear up that shield.

Also, read this article about the importance of maintaining hive atmosphere, which argues strongly against unnecessary disturbance.

If you want a daily learning opportunity, build yourself an observation hive.


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## kiwiBee

To say that opening hives causes CCD is a rather wild statement we dont have CCD here in NZ or OZ does that mean none of us are opening our hives? LOL heck no!

In the spring and summer here there's hardly any propolis in the hives you dont see them bringing it in until Autumn when they are settling down for winter.

I guess you take what you think to be true and go with it, 

For me that means opening my hives and knowing whats going on with them.
In the spring and summer it's more intensive, Autumn not hardly and winter practically never.

As a beekeeper you keep bees and you need to know whats going on in your hive thats really important.
As a Beehaver you just have bees and dont need to know whats going on in your hive.

kiwi


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## buckbee

kiwiBee said:


> To say that opening hives causes CCD is a rather wild statement


I didn't say that. It's the attitude of unrelenting interference, including multiple medications, that does the damage.



> In the spring and summer here there's hardly any propolis in the hives you dont see them bringing it in until Autumn when they are settling down for winter.


Then your bees behave differently to mine.



> I guess you take what you think to be true and go with it,


No, I observe and I use my reasoning ability and draw comparisons to other living things. How well do you think your plants would grow if you dug them up ever week to check the roots were still there?



> As a beekeeper you keep bees and you need to know whats going on in your hive thats really important.


The bees already know what is going on. They have been evolving here for 50 million years - 20 times longer than us - so I don't find it necessary to 'know' what is going on. It simply is not possible for us to really 'know' in any case - we can only interpret from our perspective, which is not the same thing. Most of what I read about bee behaviour is anthropomorphism: even down to labels like 'queen bee'.



> As a Beehaver you just have bees and dont need to know whats going on in your hive.


Perjorative language does not constitute an argument, but merely reinforces prejudice. 

If you can only gather information about what is going on in your hives by opening them, then you are limiting yourself as a beekeeper. Simply by using your senses of sight, smell and hearing at the entrance should give you all the information you really need to know.


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## bigbearomaha

everyone has their own opinion. Making judgements on others based on those opinions probably isn't the best thing to do. For me, I listen to the bees. I don't consider myself a beekeeper or a bee haver. I am a bee conservationist.

In my methodology, I let the bees tell me what and how much attention they need.

If my initial observations of each hive upon arrival at the beeyard indicate there is stress or other possible problems in the hive, I then take the next step to a brief and limited peek inside the hive. if at that time there is more evidence to a problem they might need help with, I will then do a full inspection.

If at any of these times, there are no indicators of problems, then I limit my inspection to observing and taking information externally.

I find by studying bee biology and behavior, that the bees are able to tell me when they need assistance instead of imposing what I want to do on them. 

There is a very good book out there called "At The Hive Entrance" by H Storch that goes into explicit detail of what to look for, listen, smell, etc simply by observing the outside of the hive.

I and others who think similarly do indeed believe that preserving nest scent and environment is of the highest priority.

Big Bear


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## peterloringborst

kiwiBee said:


> As a beekeeper you keep bees and you need to know whats going on in your hive thats really important. i


This is correct. The idea that opening the hive too often causes disease is akin to superstition and is not borne out by any facts. 

The most likely factor involved in CCD is large scale migratory beekeeping, especially to the Central Valley of California where one million hives from all over the US and Australia converge to an unbelievable density.

It can be compared to nothing so much as the annual pilgrimage to Mecca, where the potential for serious epidemics is always a grave concern.



> Egypt prevented dozens of pilgrims over the age of 65 or under 25 from travelling to Mecca as part of measures to prevent the spread of swine flu.
> 
> Pilgrims wanting to go on umrah or hajj must also show airport officials in Cairo medical certificates to prove they do not suffer from any chronic diseases, including diabetes.


Nothing like this is required for bees' entry into California. There is no testing done for viruses, mites, etc. going in or coming out.


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## buckbee

peterloringborst said:


> The most likely factor involved in CCD is large scale migratory beekeeping, especially to the Central Valley of California where one million hives from all over the US and Australia converge to an unbelievable density.


Which might be true if it were not the case that most of the hives were DOA in California, or so soon afterwards that there is no chance they caught anything there.

Check the research at Penn State: multiple pesticide residues + pyrethroids + coumaphos - much of it added by beekeepers. Migratory beekeeping is damaging, of course, but you can't pin CCD on it.


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## peterloringborst

buckbee said:


> Which might be true if it were not the case that most of the hives were DOA in California, or so soon afterwards that there is no chance they caught anything there.
> 
> Check the research at Penn State: multiple pesticide residues + pyrethroids + coumaphos - much of it added by beekeepers. Migratory beekeeping is damaging, of course, but you can't pin CCD on it.


First of all, I carefully worded my statement so that nobody would think that I was "pinning" anything on migratory beekeeping. However, in your statements you leave out several aspects. 

One, the hives "coming in" to California were most likely there the previous spring and could have acquired any number of novel pathogens. Most bee viruses exist in hives as latent or non-apparent infections.

Which sets the stage for this scenario. They pick up the "germs" while on the road (California, Florida, Maine) where there are other migratory outfits bleeding off sick bees.

They go off and endure further stressful conditions (winter, sheds, drought, other pollination jobs, etc). WHen they are brought back to California, they are collapsing and spewing sick and dying bees everywhere, passing the pathogens to surrounding hives.

So you have a cycle, which worsens each year. Dave Hackenburg, the first to suggest that CCD was some new and different problem, is saying that this winter is the worst yet. 

None of this "causes" CCD. It might have set the stage for an epidemic, however.


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## bigbearomaha

c'mon guys, really? now you're going to hijack this thread for another argument?

No wonder people are getting tired of you.

The man asked a question about what people think is appropriate for going into a hive. it's fine to express opinions, but anymore, things are just getting too carried away.

Bottom line, each person needs to decide for themselves, based on their own unique set of circumstances, experience and geography on how to manage their hives.

Big Bear


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## Paraplegic Racehorse

bigbearomaha said:


> The man asked a question about what people think is appropriate for going into a hive. it's fine to express opinions, but anymore, things are just getting too carried away.
> 
> Bottom line, each person needs to decide for themselves, based on their own unique set of circumstances, experience and geography on how to manage their hives.


I agree. Ultimately, they're your bees. Keep them how you like and I will keep mine how I like. Eventually, you will form and hold opinions about what is appropriate and what is not. Until then, just do what feels right.

I still say you should get an observation hive, though. Every beekeeper should keep an observation hive for at least one season. The education is invaluable.


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## mdaniels

I am a brand new beek--3 weeks in to this. I am certain that just about everything I've done is near wrong, lol. I don't know how else I am going to learn the good and the bad without looking in my hive. I anticipate not having to do it so often once I learn what is normal and what is not.

If I am wrong, will someone come and consfiscate my bees??? (Might be for their own good...  )


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## kiwiBee

Buckbee,
this is what you say about opening hives.


buckbee said:


> IMO that is exactly the attitude that has caused so many losses to disease and so-called CCD.


This is my reply to you re CCD
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwiBee 
To say that opening hives causes CCD is a rather wild statement. 

and your reply to me re CCD

"I didn't say that. It's the attitude of unrelenting interference, including multiple medications, that does the damage."

So which is it? and why the mention of CCD ?

kiwi


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## peterloringborst

kiwiBee said:


> "I didn't say that. It's the attitude of unrelenting interference, including multiple medications, that does the damage."
> 
> So which is it? and why the mention of CCD ?


I agree with Kiwi, Buckbee was the one who raised the spectre of CCD as result of routine hive inspection. The inspection of hives on a regular basis is normal beekeeping practice. To not do so, out of fear of some dire consequence, is superstitious nonsense.


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## bigbearomaha

putting your judgmental and argumentative comments aside, the OP is trying to figure out for himself what is 'regular' inspections.

He wants to know if once a week, once every two weeks, etc... is an appropriate interval for checking the hives without unduly interfering with the colony or causing some rukus he, the OP, doesn't intend to happen.

I can say that I once spoke to Dr Marion Ellis, of the University of Nebraska, who is a very well known bee researcher and beekeeper. He does not think going into a hive too often is a good idea either as it can interrupt the hive environment leading to chilled brood and other issues.

I agree that if one wants to learn from seeing the bees in action on a constant basis, an observation hive is the better way to go and will provide the best opportunity to see all you can see of hive behavior and activity.

However, to repeat myself, NONE of us are the authoritative answer here. You are free and encouraged to make your own informed decisions as it will work best for you and your bees.

Big Bear


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## kiwiBee

bigbearomaha said:


> putting your judgmental and argumentative comments aside, the OP is trying to figure out for himself what is 'regular' inspections.[QUOTE/]
> 
> However, to repeat myself, NONE of us are the authoritative answer here. You are free and encouraged to make your own informed decisions as it will work best for you and your bees.
> Big Bear


On your first sentence, What did I say that was argumentative and judgemental?

On the last sentence, I absolutely agree with you.

kiwi


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## Barry

b.walden said:


> how often should we be opening the hive? We don't want to do harm to the bees.


I think the knowledge you gain from having your head and hands inside a hive in the learning stage out weighs the potential "setback" it might cause the hive. The first year or two when I started had me looking in quite often. Be as least disrupting as possible. Enjoy learning.


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## duck_nutt

mdaniels said:


> I am a brand new beek--3 weeks in to this. I am certain that just about everything I've done is near wrong, lol. I don't know how else I am going to learn the good and the bad without looking in my hive.  I anticipate not having to do it so often once I learn what is normal and what is not.
> If I am wrong, will someone come and consfiscate my bees??? (Might be for their own good...  )




this makes sense to me....if you're new to it, you have to learn...once the 'new' wears off, you'll probably spend less time inside the hive...

but for now, I'd check it whenever I felt like checking it...being careful though


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## DavesBees

So how would you like it if I came over to your house as soon as you moved in and removed all the locks…so I could come and go as I please? On my first and all subsequent visits I remove all the weather stripping and calking around all the doors and windows. On one visit I decide to move the bedrooms and bathrooms downstairs and put the living and dining rooms upstairs. Don’t get too upset if I kill your mother because if you behave I’ll give you another one tomorrow. How would it set with you if each visit involves the loss of warm blankets in the baby’s bedroom? Better have your guard up because you will never know when I might decide to run chemical drills on ya! You are not allowed to have any extra food in the house because it is mine. Half of what I eat comes out of a can so you can eat this junk too. By the way quit calling the fire company every time I visit…. I just love the smell of smoke and I’m thoroughly amused at the way you guys run hysterically to the pantry to grab all the food you can carry. You know how you like to channel the airflow in the house to make it more comfortable… not allowed. All wax boundaries are at my discretion as well as any extra disinfectants in the house… no need for all these antimicrobials you’ve placed around the house. I see you have added boys to the house….did you not see the “no boys allowed” sign. Now we have to kill all the boys. See what a waste of time it is to raise boys around here. Sorry all your beds are the same size but you will grow into them or die, at which point we will move a new family in to take your place. We have instructed all our friends to remove their locks too so don’t try to leave…we have ways of dealing with this too! So while your new home and lifestyle take prison and slavery to a new level, please enjoy your stay. See you tomorrow and make lots of honey.


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## duck_nutt

comparing bees to humans is a stretch...it's more that a stretch, it's ridiculous....:doh:


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## Barry

Dave, you must be feeling better now!


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## kiwiBee

There's some very strange stuff being smoked out there 
Where can I get some!

kiwi


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## DavesBees

My post is not directed at anyone. It was merely meant to point out various ways we manipulate the bees to suit our needs. It was just food for thought. If you don’t like what I cook, don’t eat it. If you like what I smoke then smoke it. I have come to realize that one’s rationalizing is in direct proportion to one’s approach to manipulation of bees.

PS. This post is not directed at anyone…drinking and smoking optional.

Thanks Barry, I am feeling better.


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## brac

DavesBees said:


> So how would you like it if I came over to your house as soon as you moved in and removed all the locks…so I could come and go as I please? On my first and all subsequent visits I remove all the weather stripping and calking around all the doors and windows. On one visit I decide to move the bedrooms and bathrooms downstairs and put the living and dining rooms upstairs. ...................................................


Wow, come on guys these are insects we are talking about.


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## bigbearomaha

Kiwi, that first wasn't directed at you.

Big Bear


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## Countryboy

At next month's meeting of our local bee club, I will be bringing a single deep or a nuc to the meeting, and I am giving an outdoor presentation. I'm calling it "What's inside the beehive." Folks will get hands on experience playing with bees, and we're just going to be snooping around in a hive for no reason other than curiousity.

The bees will just have to get over it if they don't like it.


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## cow pollinater

I have noticed that my outyards tend to do much better than the bees that I keep at the house (which I constantly have my nose in) I think they do better with only minimal disturbance.... I came to this conclusion after a few years of constant supervision and tinkering.
How in the world are you going to learn about what's best for the bees if you don't get in there and watch? The downside of disturbing one hive to often is far outweighed by the upside of the knowledge gained wich will keep you from making mistakes that harm your bees in the future.


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## bigbearomaha

That's part of gaining experience as one works with bees is to get the 'feel' for things. It's one thing to read about it from others, something else entirely to do it yourself.

One must expect problems and issues to arise as the learning process goes on but much of things depend on one's attitude.

If someone really is concerned for the bees, their sense of concern and responsibility will help to limit actions that have negative impact on the bees as those persons don't want to see that effect or impact happen again or to be the cause of it.


Of course, there are those for whom there is no connection to the bees and they are simply a commodity to them. Assuming they can go and buy more bees if something happens as a child might buy more marbles if he loses or breaks those he has.

It takes all kinds.

Big Bear


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## Joseph Clemens

The degree to which any particular hive is affected by opening it and inspecting also varies greatly between different hives. I have had hives that were probably AHB that were highly disturbed just because I approached within fifty feet of the hive. I presently have bees that will offer the occasional sting if the circumstances are right, but that otherwise appear entirely unaffected when I completely disassemble their home - in these hives I can even remove the comb where the queen is busy laying, walk it a few hundred yards to the house, take it into the house to show it to my paraplegic wife (who is inside in her easy chair), on this comb, we can watch the foragers dance, the nurse bees nurse, the house bees do what they do, and the queen continue to lay eggs. Usually, not a single bee will fly off the comb to be captured by our skylight, then after we've watched them for about twenty minutes, or so, walk the comb back out to their hive, return it to its position, do the same with all their other combs and close the hive back up. These are the kinds of bees I remember keeping back when I first started to keep bees. It is nice that the majority of my hives are again behaving in similar fashion.

I can't say that my frequent looking inside hives doesn't disrupt the bees. But I can say that how much they are disrupted can depend as much on how the bees respond to being disrupted as it does on the beekeepers technique, and as to how they are disrupted.


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## peterloringborst

Joseph Clemens said:


> Usually, not a single bee will fly off the comb to be captured by our skylight, then after we've watched them for about twenty minutes


This is a amazing example of how truly adaptable honey bees are! Imagine trying this stunt with yellow jackets ...


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## peacekeeperapiaries

Joseph Clemens said:


> - in these hives I can even remove the comb where the queen is busy laying, walk it a few hundred yards to the house, take it into the house to show it to my paraplegic wife (who is inside in her easy chair), on this comb, we can watch the foragers dance, the nurse bees nurse, the house bees do what they do, and the queen continue to lay eggs. Usually, not a single bee will fly off the comb to be captured by our skylight


 You are to be hanged at dawn, not only did you disrupt their home, break their caulk and window seals, subject them to CCD but in bee distance you walked your queen and her court to northern Oregon where the brrod was subject to chilling. Oh yeah and apparently you dont mind leaving a soldier behind trapped by your skylight. :no:

Seriously, Im glad you take the time to help your wife enjoy the bees also, as previously stated get in your hives, learn, and enjoy. Thats why we keep bees.


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## peacekeeperapiaries

peterloringborst said:


> This is a amazing example of how truly adaptable honey bees are! Imagine trying this stunt with yellow jackets ...


:lpf: :lpf:


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## DavesBees

I agree that new beeks should go in the hive and get educated when necessary and enjoy themselves while they do it. But going in just for fun is detrimental to the bees. While you are laughing and slapping your knees at the ignorant buffoon who is anthropomorphizing his bees you are ignoring some important facts. When you open the hive and disrupt their workings they must now fix it….you only destroy and never rebuild. They may be set back as much as three days putting the hive back together. They don’t have a ready reserve to repair the battle damage so there is a disruption in the gathering of stores. If these three days were major flow days, they missed it. If the three days were followed by rain then they stay home and eat stores… further setting them back. They now after let’s say three events have only enough stores to maybe make it through the winter. But you are going to take the stores for yourself and feed them slop and hope they make until next season. But none of this really matters anyway they are just stupid insects.


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## sqkcrk

b.walden said:


> how often should we be opening the hive? -Bill


As often as is necassary to do what you need to do to the colony. Any more is for your benefit, not the bees. But there is nothing wrong w/ that, as long as you don't mind running the risk of doing harm. Too many inspections and you run the risk of harming or killing the queen.


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## DavesBees

Bill,
It always tickles me to here of families sharing the joy of keeping bees. I want to give you the best possible answer to you question. You both have to learn about your bees and what is going on in the hive. There are lessons in life that your daughter will learn from these visits both from the bees and from you. You cannot ignore the disruption that occurs with each visit. If you go in too often the bees will suffer regardless of the claims of others. You will learn this as you go if you are truly interested in the bees. If your bees don’t make it the first year that is ok because you learned and shared this time with your daughter. You will be ahead with the comb already built for next year. During this first year you will be developing a beekeeping philosophy. It is entirely up to you what you daughter learns about bees, life, and her Dad from this experience. There is “crush, kill, destroy” the stupid insects; let nature do what it does and respect these marvelous creatures, and everything in between. Choose wisely Grasshopper!


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## kiwiBee

DavesBees said:


> While you are laughing and slapping your knees at the ignorant buffoon who is anthropomorphizing his bees you are ignoring some important facts.
> 
> They may be set back as much as three days putting the hive back together. They don’t have a ready reserve to repair the battle damage so there is a disruption in the gathering of stores. If these three days were major flow days, they missed it. If the three days were followed by rain then they stay home and eat stores… further setting them back. They now after let’s say three events have only enough stores to maybe make it through the winter.
> 
> But you are going to take the stores for yourself and feed them slop and hope they make until next season. But none of this really matters anyway they are just stupid insects.


 Dave after reading your post I had to re read it twice more.
I really take issue with some of what you say.

Your first sentence quoted about laughing and slapping of knees.
What a load of bollocks I dont know anyone who even gives this a thought let alone have a laugh fest over it.

Your paragraph quoted in the middle is IMHO also a load of bollocks,
if you do the maths then there would hardly be a beeehive alive if by opening them 3 times in a season they are not going to make it through winter!

And the bit about it taking 3 days to rebuild what you destroyed and in those 3 days they dont bring in any stores that is not my experience and I know of noone who would advocate that.

Lastly to say that the stores are all taken and they are fed "slop" because who cares they are only insects, what the heck is that all about?

You are obviously against opening hives and thats fine I dont have a problem with that, but to post such rot and to put down beekeepers that do open hives is really childish and not helpful to anyone.

Kiwi


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## Bill123

Hello all:
I had to change my account name (I was bwalden but I was suddenly unable to post and I can't get a response from the admins so I made a new account). I appreciate all of your responses, we only go in the hive once a week and only on warm days. We keep our visits short to keep the bother to a minimum. we haven't had to work to hard to get into the hive. They are building very straight combs with no cross comb. The bee's have so far been very docile and we have not had to use the smoker (it just seems to piss them off). I am sure we are making mistakes, but we will learn in time. I did not know that it would create such a hubbub. Thanks again for all of your opinions 

- Bill


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## kiwiBee

Hi Bill,
It's been an interesting read thats for sure! 
I've often thought over the last few days of reading, Poor ol Bill didn't know what he was letting himself in for! LOL such an innocent post but what strong reactions!

Have fun with your bees and your daughter

Kiwi


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## Bill123

Thanks kiwi...I was surprised at the reaction, and me unable to post for a week.


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## kiwiBee

Hi again Bill, 
I just wanted to add that I was brought up in a beekeeping family and been with bees all my life.
My Dad and my brother took me under their wing and taught me so much.
Dad is in his 80's now but still raises over 300 queens for us each spring and I have so many special times with him as we work the bees together.

Your daughter will have those memories and special times too and thats a very cool thing!

kiwi


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## peacekeeperapiaries

I also was brought up with beekeeping, and my dad is my partner in our operation. I agree with Kiwi that your daughter will recall and relish the time you have spent with her and these experiences she will never forget. My dad and I get to spend a lot of time together with our bee business and I appreciate every moment I get to spend with him. Have fun and cherish time spent, it seems just yesterday my daughter was born and next month she turns 17...goes by way too fast.


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## sqkcrk

Bill123 said:


> Hello all:
> The bee's have so far been very docile and we have not had to use the smoker (it just seems to piss them off). I am sure we are making mistakes, but we will learn in time.
> - Bill


Bill, if your use of the smoker is pissing your bees off you are doing something wrong. Proper use of a smoker doesn't agitate the bees.


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## Bill123

Thats what I thought. When we smoked them the one time, the pitch of the buzz increased and it seemed they were fanning the hive to clear the smoke out. However, in recent visits to the hive, we have not started the smoker and the bees remained nice and calm.


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## kiwiBee

Bill you've been putting too much smoke on them they only need a small puff at the entrance and a couple of puffs over the top of the bars when you open them. Just little puffs not billowing smoke 

kiwi


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## Bill123

Thanks...I think we will leave the smoker alone for now the bees have not been acting aggressive when we open the hive, Thanks again Kiwi


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## TGCIII

i'm in the same boat with u, bill. this is my first go-around and i want to know how things are progressing as well as getting my 11 year old son over his fear of stinging insects!
we're 2 1/2 weeks into our 'beekeeping' adventure and have been in the hive 5 times. on the second trip we released the queen manually.the forth and fifth trips were both without a smoker and in short sleeves. he's turned 180 degrees from installing our bee package, where his atttire was veil, gloves, and long sleeves with a comfortable distance from the goings-on! 
now he's in shorts, no shirt. he methodically brushes the bees off the the bottom of the feeder, before he fills it, like he's been doing it all his life. thats a long way from swatting at every thing with wings just a month ago.
i'm going to pickup 3 nucs next week, so if we are causing havoc on our first hive, we'll still keep on keeping on!
for the time being, all seems well. got larva in our brood and i see foragers on our cucumber plants, as their in full bloom now. i feel like this is a life changing experience for my boy and its real cool to see the smile in his eyes when he knows he's doing this thing. good luck on ur journey.


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## beez2010

TGCIII,

Going in without a smoker is a sure sign of over-confidence. You've been very lucky doing it twice....my advice is to not do it anymore! You WILL get attacked by angry bees when you pick the wrong place at the wrong time. I'd hate for your boy to suffer a set-back because he gets stung a dozen times within 5 seconds. 

Really, I've been there....don't go in without at least a little smoke.

Chris Harvey

www.thewarrestore.com


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## TGCIII

thanks chris!
i wondered if i had the most docile bees ever or was the real deal just kinda.... waiting on me..... like a pissed off ex-wife!!!!!! we're gonna stay away for the next 2 weeks, as bad as we want to look inside, and then we'll see how the next invasion goes WITH a smoker. 
thats an education.... without the cost. point well taken and thanks again

Tommy Childers


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## bwalden234

I knew we would want to be in there a lot, so I put in an observation window which gets pretty regular use. We try to go in once a week or so, it has been nice to see them building up. Mt daughter has been stung before but she still is very happy to go into the hive. she works in a cobbled together bee suit till hers shows up in the mail (hopefully this week).


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## mike haney

when you need a smoker, its too late to light it. same thing with a veil. i get a lot of equipment from beekeepers who got used to docile bees, then one day get 25 stings-in the face. its not a matter of "man-up" or how good a keeper you are. sooner or later you're gonna crack a top and get swarmed before you get it off-guaranteed. just a matter of time.


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## TGCIII

thanks for the info, mike. i'm definitely gonna protect him better.


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## David LaFerney

This is only my second year, but it looks to me like there are some pretty good reasons to look in fairly regularly.

1) When a flow is on you need to check to see if they need more room or if you have honey that you could harvest. 

2) When there's a dearth of necter you might want to check to make sure they don't starve.

3) If you live in an area where SHB are a potential problem, you need to make sure they aren't getting out of hand - there's no way of knowing other than opening it up that I'm aware of.

4) If they requeen for any reason that is all well and good, but if the new queen doesn't make it back from mating, and you don't take action you might have to deal with a laying worker when a frame of brood would have taken care of everything.

5) If you don't do inspections you might miss chances to make increase and prevent swarms - or at least minimize their impact.

I probably pester my bees more than I (or they) need - but it's not as much of an issue now that I have a few more hives. I say that as long as you are in learning mode get in there (or don't) when ever you see fit. When you are no longer in learning mode - well, I guess you'll be wanting a good rocking chair - or a new hobby.


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## Mikefurst

Sorry im a newbiel, but when you mean when there are on a flow, well can you be more descriptive please.


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## David LaFerney

Mikefurst said:


> Sorry im a newbiel, but when you mean when there are on a flow, well can you be more descriptive please.


A flow is whenever there is nectar available and the bees are foraging, and hopefully storing away honey. Most everywhere has a Spring flow when all of the trees are in bloom and a lot of areas have another flow in the fall when asters and golden rod are in bloom. In my area bees can starve to death during July and August when it's hot and dry. You should talk to some local bee keepers to find out when your main nectar flows - and the ones that produce the best honey - usually happen.


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## Bee-fan

beez2010 said:


> This just my two cents. I really don't belive that they don't care how often your in there. (Sorry!)
> 
> http://www.thewarrestore.com/hiveinspections.htm
> 
> Again, just my opinion.
> 
> Chris


Being a new 'beekeeper' with only one hive in my garden, it's good to be able to search for answers to questions as they arise. This post was some years ago, but the article in the link above reflects what I feel is right - if someone kept removing the roof of our house to peek inside, I'd get annoyed too... Of course, in Australia we don't have as many problems with our bees, yet it makes sense that if all looks well at the entrance of the hive, why stress the bees unnecessarily? Thanks Chris!


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## Joseph Clemens

My different and personal opinion:

I started keeping bees when I was ten years old, because I was fascinated by them, and everything they do. I still am.

I don't keep bees for honey, I never have. I only recently began raising queens and nucs, in order to share bees with others, and to have them help support themselves.

I only keep bees so I can watch them do what they do. And now, for more than four decades I've done just that. I open and thoroughly inspect most of my hives, nearly every day. But, since I have so many more these days, it's more like once every second or third day. But I'm watching hives from the inside and out almost all day long. I'ts wonderful.

Some hives respond well to a little smoke. Others never seem to need any smoke. While some, especially AHB colonies, will virtually abscond if they even small smoke. So, I keep a smoker lit and available while I'm inspecting colonies, but only use it sparingly, when it seems most prudent. I also keep a veil nearby, and use it when I start getting unwanted attention.

There are so many other things you can learn by frequent and careful observations, but I think it best if you discover them for yourself.


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## millerdrr

"Why?" is probably more important than "How often?"

I opened a few hives almost every day this week, and I really didn't want to disturb them because the flow has started, but they had issues I felt I needed to take care of. For example, one hive only had a small handful of bees and a queen covering two frames; no brood suggests that the hive swarmed last week and I missed it. Another had more hive beetles in it than I wanted to see. A third is an attempt at a walk-away split, but I'll try grafting in a few days if they don't have a queen cell started (not sure if I gave them any eggs/larva).

I try to have a firm plan in mind before I do anything, and I try to keep track of what I am doing, what I expect to see, and when I need to check it again. Obviously, the bees screw with my plans sometimes, but that's when I close up and modify the plans. The hive that I think has swarmed was booming a few weeks ago; I had planned to add empty supers of drawn comb. Instead, I closed up after finding no evidence of pests/disease. The next day, I did a newspaper combine with a super full of bees and capped honey from another hive, in hopes that the extra hands will help it get going. I gave the other hive the empty super, since they had already filled up four and were heavily congested. Maybe it'll work, maybe it won't...but I like to have an idea of what I want to do and see before I bother with opening a hive. When I have to adapt, I do so without worrying about how long it's been since I've opened the hive, whether it's been a day or three months.


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## Bee-fan

Thank you for your post, Joseph. That's why forums are such a great source and worthwhile for 'newbies' such as me. So much to learn and so many different views. 
I suppose by looking at your bees on an almost daily basis, they know you and the fact you're not a threat to them. Perhaps I just need to get more confidence over time, as I do use a smoker each time I open my hive and also wear my bee-suit. One day I hope to be just like you and the beekeepers I see on video clips who wear their normal clothes... May be a little while yet:lookout:


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## Bee-fan

Thanks for that too, David. Yes it all makes sense. We are going into winter now in Australia. I took only very little honey (only 7 kg) after having my hive for 4 months, and left most of what they'd produced for them to have over the winter months, as I don't really want to feed them with sugar. Do you open your hive as much in winter too?


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## Bee-fan

Thanks, Mike  Yes, I'd like to know that too....


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## treetrunk

Screw it... I'm starting a worm farm.....


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## Joseph Clemens

We don't have much Winter, down here. But sometimes we have several Winter nights with temperatures below freezing. I do work colonies through the Winter. Most Winters I even continue raising small batches of queens. I'd done that for several years in a row, but this past Winter, it did became too cold to continue. Though I was able to start again, quite early in this 2013 season.


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## Bee-fan

Not nearly as exciting, but a lot easier - I have had one for about 3 years and it's great for all the vegetable scraps from cooking


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## thebalvenie

beez2010 said:


> This just my two cents. I really don't belive that they don't care how often your in there. (Sorry!)
> 
> http://www.thewarrestore.com/hiveinspections.htm
> 
> Again, just my opinion.
> 
> Chris


great website adn wonderful insight to beekeeping. much appreciated!

i'm a new beekeeper. i tend to side with less is more...meaning the observation window and watching the hive entrance are enough for me. i really only want to open the hive when i harvest the honey....i think going into the hive can only hinder the bees' natural way of order/things. so, would it not make sense that we stay out of their way? i tend to see it that way because common sense says so...no amount of inspecting can really "fix" things...it's best to let the bees be bees.

i have an observation hive and love it. i'm fascinated by going out in the evening and sitting on my milk crate and looking up in the hive and listening...watching...


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## Bee-fan

That's pretty much the way I look at it too...Bees have been doing their 'thing' for thousands of years. We have been the ones to disturb their natural rhythms through our modern agricultural practices. Creating a safe haven for a hive to have its own space and peace to carry on with their normal business seems to make sense to me.I do like your idea of an observation hatch... will investigate this a little further. Right now I just sit to one side of my hive and watch the comings and goings. I see the pollen being brought back, see that they seem quite content... that's enough for me right now...


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## rhaldridge

As a beginner, I spend a lot of time looking at the hives from the outside, but I've been looking at them frame by frame nearly weekly. This isn't optimal for the colony. I imagine, but the purpose these bees are serving is to be my teachers this first year.

Also, my first hives are long hives, and getting bees to expand sideways seems to take more effort than letting them expand vertically. On my older hive, which has been booming, I add a frame or two to the brood nest nearly every week. It's gone from a 5 frame nuc to 20 frames so far. 

Anyway, I learn something, good or bad, every time I get into the hives. if I had a bunch of hives, I'd bother them less, and they'd surely do better, but... it's self-education time now.


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## WBVC

Amazingly this book is available to all online as a pdf

http://www.kootenaybees.ca/At the Hive Entrance.pdf


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