# no cook sugar brick is a joke



## beefarmer (May 2, 2010)

That was my final attempt at making the no cook sugar bricks, after being in the baking sheet for 4 days, felt hard pressing down on top, I try turning it over on flat surface, and get a pile of crumbleing sugar all over the garage floor, from here on cook sugar to 250 deg. sets up hard as a rock. Still have some in a tote from last winter that were on hives that I pulled of this spring, that's the way to go !!!!!!!


----------



## Hiwire (Oct 19, 2014)

beefarmer you are doing something wrong. For several years I have made very simple sugar bricks without leaving the work shop. Maybe too much water, maybe too cool. All you need is enough sugar to mix it. The amount isnt critical but the more you add, the longer they take to set up. I dont even remember but i think I use something like a cup for 7 lbs of sugar. It takes a day or 2 for them to set up depending on the temp. Sorry they arent working out for you


----------



## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

Understand your frustration.

Tried cake pans in the oven once and it turned liquid and never dried. 

No bake and no dehydrator works well if you put the moist sugar in a paper soup bowl, or a cardboard French fry tray. Another idea circulating is to use paper cups in muffin tins or silicone muffin tins. The paper/cardboard can be air dried.

I found cooking syrup to 250F is also a time consuming/wasteful/frustrating process also.

Encourage you to try a no bake/cook recipe but use a paper/cardboard container.


----------



## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

Yall are doing something wrong 1/3 cup of liquid to a 4 lb bag. Mix well put in oven on warm setting ( apx 170 ) for about 30 min with the door cracked then shut off and pull it in the morning hard as a rock every time.


----------



## Ski (Jan 18, 2007)

I have been using 1.5 oz of water per pound of sugar. I got that from someone on Beesource a few years back and it has been working just fine. It does take a few days to a week for it to harden. I put them in a cardboard box and set them in the house next to a heat vent if I don't want to wait for them to set up in the unheated barn.
I have not tried using the oven, have not been in that big of a hurry, yet.


----------



## Rusty Hills Farm (Mar 24, 2010)

I make sugar blocks every year using the same basic recipe: 6 ¼ pounds sugar, 1 cup water, 1 teaspoon ascorbic acid, and a splash of Rusty's Bee Tonic. Since reading Lauri's recipe last year, I converted the water to ACV and added a pinch of electrolytes with probiotics. I dry them out on the porch or, if it's humid, I stick them in my jerky dehydrator. Works like a charm and I haven't lost a hive to starvation in a bunch of years.

HTH

Rusty


----------



## Frgrasso (Dec 18, 2014)

The brick/cake needs to be able 
To dry on all sides , if you leave 
Or in a cookie sheet or a foil pan
It will never dry on the covered 
Side , I fill cupcake cups about 
Half full with the sugar mix and 
Let it set up a day then a take the 
Cakes and let them dry on a cookie
Drying rack for a few days , they 
Come out rock hard. I like the small
Size of them , easy to store in a large 
Zip lock bag and you can freeze them 
Until needed


----------



## beefarmer (May 2, 2010)

Thank all you guys for the tips, I might have figured out the problem, from frgrasso, I have been putting them in metal baking sheets, approx. 1 " deep. Because I have been trying the 7.5 oz. of water in 5 lbs. sugar, exactly as it seems everyone is using. Now I can't wait to try this no cook stuff again and putting it in paper or cardboard. thanks


----------



## rwlaw (May 4, 2009)

Sooo, just gotta ask. Is Rusty's Bee Tonic a long handed down secret family recipie, or is it something you'll share with us?


----------



## beestudent (Jun 10, 2015)

I tried making a mix of sugar and water, mixed in enough water to make a snowy paste, cooked it in a plastic bowl 2 hours, went nearly hard, left out upside down overnight, crumbled in my hand... Will definitely have to use the cupcake method...


----------



## beestudent (Jun 10, 2015)

rwlaw said:


> Sooo, just gotta ask. Is Rusty's Bee Tonic a long handed down secret family recipie, or is it something you'll share with us?


LoL!


----------



## beestudent (Jun 10, 2015)

Harley Craig said:


> Yall are doing something wrong 1/3 cup of liquid to a 4 lb bag. Mix well put in oven on warm setting ( apx 170 ) for about 30 min with the door cracked then shut off and pull it in the morning hard as a rock every time.


Will have to try that one too...  nothing has worked so far, made Lauri's recepie, didn't work for me...


----------



## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

I got some dampened sugar to set up OK.

I did try accelerating the drying in an oven set to "WARM". This resulted in some of it running down into the oven, and me with my head in the oven scraping and scrubbing, trying to stay out of the doghouse.

I wound up with acceptable bricks, but at the price of losing kitchen privileges for making them.


----------



## Colobee (May 15, 2014)

1 oz of apple cider vinegar per pound of sugar, mixed well with a battery drill & paint paddle in a 2 gallon bucket. Lightly packed into a 7 x11" brownie pan, ~1" thick. Scratch/rough up the top, with the cappings scratcher & air dry under a small fan for ~12 hours/ overnight. 

Nice, hard, 1", 3 lb bricks. 'Popped out of the pan to finish air drying the bottom (now top). The smell of vinegar is almost pleasant 

This is working GREAT for me. Best of luck to those having issues.


----------



## gezellig (Jun 11, 2014)

[QUOTE=beefarmer;Because I have been trying the 7.5 oz. of water in 5 lbs. sugar, exactly as it seems everyone is using. 

Not sure how you buy your sugar, so just remember the bags are 4lbs if that's what you're buying, not 5. Which would have an affect on the moisture needed.


----------



## Rusty Hills Farm (Mar 24, 2010)

rwlaw said:


> Sooo, just gotta ask. Is Rusty's Bee Tonic a long handed down secret family recipie, or is it something you'll share with us?



LOL It is posted right on my website. I love to share anything that works for me!

 

Rusty


----------



## Rusty Hills Farm (Mar 24, 2010)

Frgrasso said:


> The brick/cake needs to be able
> To dry on all sides , if you leave
> Or in a cookie sheet or a foil pan
> It will never dry on the covered
> Side ,


This is a good point. I use those ventilated plastic pans from my dehydrator whether I am sitting the bricks out to dry or putting them in the dehydrator. I've never tried metal or a solid pan. They dry great in the machine or out on the porch.

HTH

Rusty


----------



## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

Rusty Hills Farm said:


> This is a good point. I use those ventilated plastic pans from my dehydrator whether I am sitting the bricks out to dry or putting them in the dehydrator. I've never tried metal or a solid pan. They dry great in the machine or out on the porch.
> 
> HTH
> 
> Rusty


No its not I use foil pans and mine are rock hard the next day I think y'all are using way to much liquid there is enough moisture in the air for sugar to turn into a brick 1/3 cup to 4 lbs of sugar is more than enough


----------



## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Another option is to let it dry in the hives - last year I just shoveled the damp mixture right into the hives. Works great.


----------



## cheryl1 (Mar 7, 2015)

I let mine dry in the hives also. Have had no problems


----------



## Colobee (May 15, 2014)

Harley Craig said:


> No its not I use foil pans and mine are rock hard the next day I think y'all are using way to much liquid there is enough moisture in the air for sugar to turn into a brick 1/3 cup to 4 lbs of sugar is more than enough


 I had a few test batches that hardened on top, but not the bottom, even after several days of dehydrating. The metal pans were causing it.
Moisture can't escape through the metal sides & bottom. This _could _be an issue, _for some folks_. You are right that it appears that some of the folks having problems may be using too much liquid.

I can leave dry sugar in a pan for weeks or months, and it wont clump or harden. The front range of Colorado is designated "semi-arid" - one step away from "desert". If an ounce of ACV, per pound of sugar, works well for me it should work well for _almost_ everyone else.

Pressing the mix into a wooden shim, on newspaper laid over a queen excluder, or using any other means of providing drying from below can't do anything but help.

*I can't emphasize enough how much roughing up the final (wet) surface speeded up my dry times - even using metal pans.*


----------



## Pete O (Jul 13, 2013)

Mine gets cooked to about 235 degrees, let to cool off to about 180, and them poured into a MixMaster where it gets an intermittent agitation. The mixer puts air into the fondant, making it much softer for the bees. As it cools down and is ready to pour off, I throw in some HBH and a few drops of lemongrass oil. The bees devour it!


----------



## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Not sure what folks are doing different..Mine still harden fine. I make them the same way I always have. Too much liquid makes them goopyish, too little makes them crumbly. My mix is like slightly heavy snow. Soft. Not wet.

I let them set for about 2 weeks in an unheated greenhouse. Made them earlier this year so I had time, didn't use the dehydrator yet this year. I've never done it in an oven, but some say that works, some say it doesn't.










Here you see a pan that's soaked up the Beepro topping, next pan is freshly made.










Freshly made and they'll store here until they are needed










This one is still a bit damp in the center, but hard and stable enough for placing.


----------



## Hogback Honey (Oct 29, 2013)

Takes a while for them to set up. I make mine when it's hot and there is very little humidity in the air. This time if year, where I live, it wouldn't be possible to make them, too much humidity. Is it too humid, where you are, right now?


----------



## Bee Bliss (Jun 9, 2010)

I used Harley Craig's method from post #4. Thank you! Works great!

Made it exactly like he said and it worked super. Tried making cakes two previous years and didn't do very well. That year I could not get the brick out of a greased glass cake pan! Ugh!!!!

I make 4# sugar at a time in a big bowl. Add the 1/3 cup of water while stirring. Then mash all the lumps downward with the bottom of a tablespoon until evenly moist. I pour and pack about 2# into a heat-resistant plastic food containers that previously held lasagna. The bricks slip right out when they cool and I do not have to grease the pans at all. I end up with two bricks that are 6x8". Each brick is about two pounds.


----------



## Randyw (May 18, 2012)

Harley Craig said:


> Yall are doing something wrong 1/3 cup of liquid to a 4 lb bag. Mix well put in oven on warm setting ( apx 170 ) for about 30 min with the door cracked then shut off and pull it in the morning hard as a rock every time.


Thanks Harley Craig, I used your method yesterday. It worked great, all the molds are hard as a brick.


----------



## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

Randyw said:


> Thanks Harley Craig, I used your method yesterday. It worked great, all the molds are hard as a brick.



glad it's working for folks with all the bricks won't harden threads lately I was starting to think I was just getting lucky LOL !


----------



## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Hogback Honey said:


> Is it too humid, where you are, right now?


Set the cookie sheet on a heating pad with a di-humidifier running in a closet.


----------



## MikeinCarolina (Mar 9, 2014)

I have never used " sugar bricks " before. Can someone tell me why they are a good idea and how you use them ?


----------



## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

MikeinCarolina said:


> I have never used " sugar bricks " before. Can someone tell me why they are a good idea and how you use them ?


they are good emergency feed and absorb excess moisture. once it's too cold for ants, place them on the top bar with a shim to raise your lid. I prefer them over mountain camp as they are easier to clean up unused sugar come spring.


----------



## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

MikeinCarolina said:


> I have never used " sugar bricks " before. Can someone tell me why they are a good idea and how you use them ?


Winter sugar feed, whether dry or in various forms like sugar blocks, candy boards or fondant, never take the place of good winter hive prep late summer and early fall.

But sometimes hives are overlooked, are in a less than optimal shape for health or queen reasons, or the colonies are too small (Such as over wintered mating nucs) to get enough feed into them to last the entire winter.

Once it gets too cold for liquid feeding methods, dry methods are your last resort..or just good insurance if you are unsure.

More information here: 

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?290641-My-recipe-method-for-sugar-blocks


----------



## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Sugar bricks are good for winter/early Spring emergency feeding when the cluster
had burn through their reserved honey store when they moved up to the top bars where it is warmer there. When they started brooding in early
Spring they needed more food resource for the build up. Many claimed that their hives had starved to death in the winter time. So having more sugar bricks in the hive will allow the cluster at the top to survive longer. In the snow bound country this is most important to feed the bees when an extended winter snow is on.
In milder winter climate here, I use them to feed the bees before they even tap into their emergency honey reserves when they are brooding up in the Spring time. By the time they had finished the sugar bricks the warm Spring air has arrived sometime in mid-March. This year with the El Nino effects, the prediction was that more rains will extend the Spring season. That means that they will be inside the hive more than foraging outside because of the rains. I will be adding more sugar bricks to help them grow more along with the patty subs.


----------



## Socrates (Jul 11, 2015)

Does anybody know what's going on when sugar starts to liquefy in the oven? What purpose does vinegar serve in some recipes? It seems completely odd that 1 cup of water to 10lbs of sugar at 170°F would make sugar go liquidy.

This was the method I used and I took it out of the oven when I noticed a little bit of liquid seeping out of the form. The sugar was still soft and figured it would take weeks to continue to dry but the next day it was hard as a rock. This was my first attempt..


----------



## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

1. If there is enough water present, heating it may increase it's ability to dissolve sugar, turning it to liquid.

2.The vinegar is acetic acid (yes, Apple cider vinegar has other stuff in it too) which helps "invert" the double sugar, sucrose, into simple sugars glucose and fructose.

The bees just seem to burn through the sucrose (table sugar). If there is fructose present, the may add weight on to the hive. Either way, a small amount of acid such as ACV or lemon juice, in sugar feed, dry or liquid, seems to benefit the bees. My observations are that they take up the feed faster.


----------



## CreamPuffFarm (Apr 28, 2011)

I have been pouring a 4# bag of sugar in a large bowl and mixing in ACV just until damp. Pour into the cookie sheets like Lauri uses, then lay waxed paper over the top and use the rolling pin to compact it all down. Remove the waxed paper, then I put them in the attic (family doesn't like smell of ACV) for a week or so. they are perfectly hard. Flip them out onto a newspaper and lay them on the hive (w/out paper). 

My question is: One of the leaders of our Beekeeper assoc. does not recommend ACV. Says it is an attractant for SHB. Anybody want to comment on that?


----------



## Maddy (Jan 20, 2014)

Everything I have read about ACV being used as SHB bait has just straight vinegar.
While I don't think the addition of sugar does much to change the scent, I do not know if sugar is attractive to SHB.

You have posed a very interesting question. I, too, would like to know if the addition of ACV to sugar bricks may be asking for SHB issues.

~M


----------



## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

CreamPuffFarm said:


> My question is: One of the leaders of our Beekeeper assoc. does not recommend ACV. Says it is an attractant for SHB. Anybody want to comment on that?


I don't know about attacting SHB. I think it is one ingredient in wax moth traps promoted in a thread around here somewhere.

I've been known to feed mountain camp method with dry sugar and a little pollen substitute mixed in. Pollen and pollen sub are supposed to attract SHB, although in the seasons when you are feeding dry sugar or sugar bricks I can't imagine it is a serious problem.


----------



## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

If there are a lots of SHB during the winter or early Spring time they will
find a place to hide when the cluster moved up to the top bars munching away
on the sugar bricks. So the bees should be clustering all over when it is warmer up there.
It is when the sugar bricks are left unattended by the bees that the SHB have a chance to hide
underneath. But again, we don't have that many SHB here for another potential experiment.
Just like the 2" patty sub cubes, you can cut down the sugar bricks too so that the bees will consume them faster.
And only add enough when needed as emergency feed.


----------



## Slow Drone (Apr 19, 2014)

SHB will have more of a tendency to overwinter within the cluster, they need to share the heat the bees generate to survive.


----------



## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Harley Craig said:


> Yall are doing something wrong 1/3 cup of liquid to a 4 lb bag. Mix well put in oven on warm setting ( apx 170 ) for about 30 min with the door cracked then shut off and pull it in the morning hard as a rock every time.


Just did this last night, followed a different "mix" last year and the bricks were inconsistent. I didn't use a drill to mix last year as I did this year, though, so I think I'll take the blame for most of that. Hand mixing is not easy.
For science I pushed on one after about a hour with the oven on at 170* to see how hard they were to break... it took a lot of force to break it. Then I lumped it back together and it was mostly whole this morning. Just two big pieces. Otherwise I just lumped the mixture into a loaf with my hands and then eventually found a bread pan. Thanks, Harley!


----------



## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

no problem it's not difficult to mix by hand if you split your 4 lbs and liquid into thirds. little sugar little liquit mix. Takes me a about 4 min start to finish to mix by hand, If it were making more than 2-3 at a time I'd definitely use a drill with a mortor mixer.


----------



## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

Rusty Hills Farm said:


> LOL It is posted right on my website. I love to share anything that works for me!
> 
> 
> 
> Rusty


Does that really control varroa?


----------



## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

Harley Craig said:


> Yall are doing something wrong 1/3 cup of liquid to a 4 lb bag. Mix well put in oven on warm setting ( apx 170 ) for about 30 min with the door cracked then shut off and pull it in the morning hard as a rock every time.


Thanks Harley! I did your 4 lbs to 1/3 c ACV, put it the oven while I mixed the next batch. Experimented up to 5 lbs to 2/3 c ACV + 1 tsp lemon juice (sub for Citric) on 4 batches. I thought that your liquid levels were way to low but today I tipped them over and every single one of them were rock hard. Its a nice compromise between cooking all Sunday afternoon making hard candy and having a bunch of loose mountain camp on the hive in spring. I will try it on the 6 here at the house and see what I think.


----------



## wertzsteve (Dec 28, 2015)

I too used 4pounds to 1/3 came out great!


----------



## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

Just like David Laferney and Cherl1

I just added water and vinegar to 6lbs sugar and I mixed it up with a potato masher in a large stainless steel dish pan until it was like wet snow. Scooped it on top of the top bars with a large soup serving spoon and put on the feeder shim and migratory cover. It looked like snow balls on the top bars. The bees love it, I checked back on them today and they are all over the sugar clumps. Those hives seem to be doing better than the hives that just have sealed honey in the combs without any sugar top. 

I have some that did not have a feeder shim because the bees were all in the bottom box, so I just scooped the sugar snow ball mix between the boxes the same way I do pollen patties, it worked out great. The bees were all over it today and looking good.

I don't see any need to heat it and dry it hard like most are doing, although I have heard it is the heating that will help the sugar to invert with the added acid of vinegar or lemon juice or absorbic acid. Next time I'm just going to use water, I'm not so sure the acid is needed. I'm all for quick and easy if it helps the bees, and doing it the way I did sure is that, quick and easy, and the bees love it.


----------



## Michael B (Feb 6, 2010)

If it falls apart its too wet. The I use 25 lbs a sugar and about 25 oz vinegar and one day in the dehydrator. Hards are rocks.


----------



## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

Ten pound bag of sugar, 2 cups of water and mix until all sugar is damp. I form it into Dixie brand paper soup bowls that hold a little over a pound each when packed full. If I used a release agent the bricks would come out of the bowls but I don't bother and just put the whole thing in on the top bars. Upside down of course. My bees don't seem to miss the vinegar but I suppose you could substitute it for some of the water. If I don't have any made ahead of time, I can carefully and quickly turn them over on the top bars hours after they were made. Granted I live in dry country but in few days they are brick hard. Working with boiling sugar just seems silly when this is so easy.


----------



## vdotmatrix (Apr 5, 2014)

MAN save yourselves the aggravation and just cook it...takes an hour of your life....:

10 pounds sugar
2 cups corn syrup
2 generous cups of hot tap water 
~10ml vinigar

stir to moisten ingredients and heat over med high heat with stirring to a rolling gentle boil around ~222 degrees. 
The solution clears around 230 degrees or so....
watch your temp and move to the back low simmer burner on your stove and try and keep it at a gentle roll until you are at 242 and see if you can keep it there for 10 minutes to ensure inversion from SUCROSE to glucose and fructose....

turn off heat....cool to about 220 or so, whip in some air with a handheld electric mixer-becare this stuff is over 200 degrees still.

pour into containers of your choice: inner covers, 10" pape plates etc.....allow to cool. Fight the temptation to lick the spoon. LOL


----------



## UTvolshype (Nov 26, 2012)

Maddy said:


> Everything I have read about ACV being used as SHB bait has just straight vinegar.
> While I don't think the addition of sugar does much to change the scent, I do not know if sugar is attractive to SHB.
> 
> You have posed a very interesting question. I, too, would like to know if the addition of ACV to sugar bricks may be asking for SHB issues.
> ...


SHB don't fly this time of year or move up from the soil, so any in the hives will just run around till they find your protein patty and then you have problems if you don't change the patty out after two weeks. Won't be a problem normally till early March in Tn/North Ga area.


----------



## NewbeeInNH (Jul 10, 2012)

Is this where we curse the sugar manufacturers for reducing 5 lb. bags to 4 lbs? Whose idea was that anyway? Totally messes up my sugar brick recipe, but oh well. 

I took Laurie's apple cider vinegar approach, and my *original* recipe was 15 lbs. of sugar to 1.5 cups of Bragg's apple cider vinegar. (Make sure you use the organic, because your bees deserve the very best.  ) Now if you say it's 4 lbs. of sugar to 1/3 cup ACV, then adjusted I guess that would be 12 lbs. of sugar to 1 cup of ACV. 

I use regular baking pans, lined with parchment paper, once I even used dark cake tins and they fell out of there just great. After I squish the sugar/ACV mix into the pan nice and hard, I stick them in the 170F oven with the temp turned off, leave them for 2 hrs., then let them sit around the house for a couple days (I'm pretty sure the ACV aroma is healthy for you) (you can tell the fam that when they hold their noses and complain). I only make mine about 1" high because I don't have 2" feeding shims in my hives.

Does anyone know where to get 2" feeding shims? I know you can make them, but I'm not that handy with carpentry. You'd think someone would sell those.


----------



## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

I have tried the system with heating syrup and letting harden and simply mixing sugar with a bit of water. The latter is so simple. I add just enough water that it mixes up to be light and fluffy. I put it into pans and press it down. It will dry on the counter or if I want it faster it goes in a barely warm oven or the dehydrator. Ends up as hard as a sugar cube. The bees chew into it with no issue and any extra can simply be lifted off the bars.
I would try again...keep it simple.
Some use small 5 lb bags of sugar that put a slit in and dunk it in water. The bag then hardens and makes a wrapped sugar block.


----------



## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

beefarmer said:


> Thank all you guys for the tips, I might have figured out the problem, from frgrasso, I have been putting them in metal baking sheets, approx. 1 " deep. Because I have been trying the 7.5 oz. of water in 5 lbs. sugar, exactly as it seems everyone is using. Now I can't wait to try this no cook stuff again and putting it in paper or cardboard. thanks


Mine go in aluminum lasagne pans and dry rock hard through and through.


----------



## Colobee (May 15, 2014)

NewbeeInNH said:


> Is this where we curse the sugar manufacturers for reducing 5 lb. bags to 4 lbs? Whose idea was that anyway? Totally messes up my sugar brick recipe, but oh well.


I'm having great success with a very simple "1 oz to 1 lb" recipe. I air dry them, with the aid of a small ( 6") fan. I just refreshed the bricks, and had to snap a few hard, over my knee, after they had air dried for a month or so. 

When I made the last batch ( in metal brownie pans, ~1-1/4" thick) I noticed that when I flipped them out onto plywood, after ~12 hours, the bottom half ( now top) was still soft. They crusted over quickly, & dried all the way through in another ~6 hours. We are "semi-arid" - and relatively dry out here.


----------



## Scitfrostbite (Aug 15, 2015)

Same recipe- 1/3 cup vinegar, 4lb sugar, 170 oven for a while, came out perfect


----------

