# Natural beekeeping in Canada



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

On the organic beekeepers group on Yahoo there are a lot of Canadians and Alaskans who seem to be doing well...


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## Hopper (Mar 8, 2011)

I'm in my first year as a beekeeper, and am going natural. I've gone to foundationless after reading Michael Bush, also chemical free. My bees are carniolans and have been biulding up great from packages.


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## boukers (Aug 4, 2010)

also first year with 4 hives, all foundationless/mediums and the goal of chemical free. So far so good, my first challange is the transition from 4 and 3 frame deep nucs onto medium foundationless. Bees are building wonderfully but the comb needs care and munipulation often to ensure straight comb. I'm having the time of my life with them. Another thing to mention, I understand the question of your thread! I belong to a beekeeping club, but for now keep rather quiet with my beekeeping goals as what I'm doing is far from the norm and comes with harsh critisism as a new beek....with no experience I don't have much to say or aurgue with. Treatment free beekeeping seems much more popular in the US, however, I'm exited with the challange and exited to be part this. All the best.


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## sammyjay (May 2, 2011)

Thanks for all your replies, everyone.


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## mrspock (Feb 1, 2010)

sammyjay said:


> Hi, I was wondering how difficult it is to keep bees naturally in Canada?


Is keeping bees natural?

Pedantry aside, it is possible to keep them without hard chemicals. Starting with localized bees will increase your chances of success.


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## Solomon Parker (Dec 21, 2002)

It is possible without any chemical additions to the hive, not solely without the hard ones.


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

Au natural beekeeping in Canada is a hit and miss thing. Southern Ontarion probably could get away with it as well as BC. However, Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba are proviences which have harsh winters. Mite counts need to be down early fall before winter sets in or your hives will surely die. In August the queen starts to lay eggs for the winter bees. IF these bees are compromised, the hive will fail by Febuary for sure, more than likely by November, December.
If you want a honey crop, your mite levels in early May need to be below 1%.
Read through this link.
http://www.capabees.com/main/files/pdf/varroathreshold.pdf 
If you can get your mites to this level natural and get them to survive our winters and get a honey crop off the following season, you are doing well. An average crop for our and your area is anywhere from 150-200 pounds without taking from the brood chamber...if you are on crop land. If you are urban, it will be somewhat less i presume.
If you can meet those goal in a natural state, more power to you. If your mites get out of control, nosema and a host of virus will be the downfall of your hive.
Just my two cents....from someone who lives in the same climate as you


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba are proviences which have harsh winters. 

I have seen -40 F (-40 C) in Western Nebraska and Laramie and -27 F (-32 C) in my current location. Maybe not as cold as some places in Alberta or Saskatchewan, but as cold as some of the places in those provinces. I'm not treating at all. I think that qualifies as a "harsh winter"...


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

Micheal,
How long are your winters?
How long do your temps at the level you posted last on average?
How harsh are your winds?
Do you winter indoors or out? 
When is your expected first kill frost?
When are you able to averagely plant a garden? 
Do you wrap and with what? 
When does your winter start?
Spring start? 
What are your flows like? 
How long do they last? 
When do you start to think of winter prep in some form or fashion since beekeeping is regional? 
When is your final honey pull?
I just did a search on Greenwood Nebraska and Laramie WY winter temps on the weather.com The American weather station. 
http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatology/daily/68366?climoMonth=1
http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatology/daily/USWY0102?climoMonth=1
Your temps are on average much warmer than ours. I wish our weather network had such detail for us. But i did do a search of average daily number of days above zero Celcuis between December and Feb, for both winnipeg and Saskatoon. Winnipeg was 0.5 days and Saskatoon was 0.1 days. IF you do find some reasearch my closets weather station is Dauphin MB
I ask these questions not to antagonize you but to compare apples to apples rather than apples to bananas. Do you get as cold as we do, YES. Do you sustain those temps as long as we do, NO...there is where the difference lies.

Here are my answers
How long are your winters? October to March
How long do your temps at the level you posted last on average? The whole month of January are our average temps. Normals i believe are around the -20C mark. It is the winds which get us taking it down to -30 and even -45 -50. We on average get about 2 weeks of -30 temps excluding windchills and in the last recent years seen 6 weeks of these temps. March is our most volitile month. We can get days where melting occurs or days for weeks on end between -20 and -30
How harsh are your winds? December to end of March and see windchills to -30 or more
Do you winter indoors or out? out
When is your expected first kill frost?Average September 17th or so
When are you able to averagely plant a garden?Somewhere between May 24th and June 5th 
Do you wrap and with what?With nod apiaries bee cosies (black insulated wraps with 8" of pink insulation on top and with a sheet of ceiling tile in the the innercover 
When does your winter start? Our wraps should be on between Canadian Thanksgiving and halloween
Spring start? We unwrap our hives by May 10, no earlier than last week of April. 
What are your flows like? Short and fast between July 10th and August 15 
How long do they last? 6 weeks on average 
When do you start to think of winter prep in some form or fashion since beekeeping is regional? Late July early August we start to assess hives for winter survival. August 15 is when we start to think on winterin terms of not wintering any weak hives, combining and shaking out for us begins about here. 
When is your final honey pull?In order for the hives to survive, honey should be pulled by Sept 1 and no later than the 15th. A rule of thumb for our area is, if you go for the fall flow, count on dead bees for spring. Make a choice...dead or alive.
In our prairie winters, bees winter better on syrup rather than honey. The simple reason is less pollen in the syrup. Less number of times needed for a cleansing flight becasue they do not have the waste which occurs from eating protien. Alfalfa and clover honey can winter bees, however more signs of dysentry are seeen with this...due to the pollen in the honey and our limited fly days. Since you are further south, your days in January are typically longer than ours. Our shortest day of the year, sunrises at 8:31 and sets at 5:11pm with just more than 8.5 hours of daylight


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

> How long are your winters?

Some years they can't fly from October until April. Most years we get a hard freeze in September or October. Some years we don't get one until November. Some years they get some flying weather in the middle of winter and some years they don't.

> How long do your temps at the level you posted last on average?

Usually we get one really cold spell for a week or two. Sometimes more, but that would be typical.

> How harsh are your winds?

I see 60 mph often at my house. Often enough that I get shingles blown off my roof several times a year and at least one adult tree blown down most years and sometimes several. But 20mph is very typical. Dead calm is very rare.

> Do you winter indoors or out?

Out.

> When is your expected first kill frost?

Could be as early as Sept and one year it was Christmas. October would be typical.
When are you able to averagely plant a garden?

> Do you wrap and with what?

No.

> When does your winter start?

It depends.
Spring start?

> What are your flows like?

Variable. Usually the main flow starts the second week of June. Depending on the rain it could go straight on through to fall but most years it peters out in late July or early August. Some years sooner.

> How long do they last?

One to two months would be typical, but more occasionally.

> When do you start to think of winter prep in some form or fashion since beekeeping is regional?

If I don't have them pretty heavy by September it's probably too late to get them up to weight.

> When is your final honey pull?

I like to pull late so I can leave enough honey, but most people around me harvest in mid July or early August.

> I ask these questions not to antagonize you but to compare apples to apples rather than apples to bananas. Do you get as cold as we do, YES. Do you sustain those temps as long as we do, NO...there is where the difference lies.

Understood. Everything is local.

> How long are your winters? October to March

That would be typical for us.

> How long do your temps at the level you posted last on average? The whole month of January are our average temps. Normals i believe are around the -20C mark. It is the winds which get us taking it down to -30 and even -45 -50. 

I don't see that cold here, but did in Laramie and Western Nebraska.

> How harsh are your winds? December to end of March and see windchills to -30 or more

That would be typical here.

> When is your expected first kill frost?Average September 17th or so

Don't know our average, but that wouldn't be unusual.

> When are you able to averagely plant a garden?Somewhere between May 24th and June 5th

If you want to be fairly safe from frost Sometime in early May but I've seen snow in May.


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## sammyjay (May 2, 2011)

Thank you for all your replies everybody... Also, I'm thinking that honeyshack is right. The russian which is used to hard winters and heavy mite populations might be able to survive, but I don't know where to get any and I here there not very productive.


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## Gordo (Jan 2, 2009)

Sammy, talk to Geoff Wilson, your Provincial Apiarist. When he was in Ontario, he helped set up the first Russian breeding program in the country. If there are out your way, he's likely to know.


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

Gordo is right. Talk to your Provincial Apiarist. They are a wealth of information. 

On a side note. Use queen selection as a tool to control mites. Part of an IPM strategy. It is not the silver bullet. Not in our climate


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