# Storing honey frames in vacuum-sealed space bags?



## bbbbeeman (Jan 13, 2007)

no; but I have taken honey and put it in cone with a paint brush, for hives that needed food . good luck rock.


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## Slabaugh Apiaries (Jul 16, 2006)

Hey, that is a lot of extra work. noting where you are in NY. the frames will freeze in a few weeks and then wrap then in a garbage bag till next spring. Keep them in a out building or move them to the deep freeezer till they are needed is what most people do in the north. Note: keep them wrapped till they are thawed out and the moisure will stay on the plastic not on the honey.
Regards,
Danny Slabaugh


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

If you freeze them or put them where they will freeze you won't need the plastic bags and if you don't the wax moths will take over even in the plastic bags...


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## libhart (Apr 22, 2010)

It seems like that space bags would keep the wax moths away. I've had space bags with blankets and such in them that eventually "reinflate" over time, so those seals aren't perfect, you'll want to keep an eye on them. 

If you're up for a little bit more investment, another idea might be a kitchen vacuum sealer. Those bags seem to be airtight for just about ever, only problem I see is that the bags are only 11" wide, so you'd want to be sure you could fit your frame size in there. I'd imagine you could keep the frames on a shelf in those bags, no need for freezing, cold, etc. 

Room in a basement for a second hand chest freezer though might also be a good investment, craigslist is a good place to look, and you might snag one uber cheap there.


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## Axtmann (Dec 29, 2002)

Go to the dump or recycling company and look for a big old freezer. If the freezer is still working, freeze the combs for a while and than disconnect the freezer. After a few weeks freeze again for a short time and your combs are protected for a long time. 
If the freezer is not working, put all your combs in and than on top an open can with 2 or 3 table spoons of Thymol crystals, depends of the size from the freezer. 
This protects the combs from mould and wax moths.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

It may "seem like" the bags will keep the moths out, but the eggs are already there...


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## libhart (Apr 22, 2010)

But if the frames come in from the cold having been through a winter, wouldn't they be unviable at that point?


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## NDnewbeek (Jul 4, 2008)

libhart said:


> But if the frames come in from the cold having been through a winter, wouldn't they be unviable at that point?


Unviable? Perhaps I misunderstand your question, but honey that has been capped will never spoil. Edible honey has been found stored in clay pots in Egyptian tombs. I have had frames of honey sitting outside in deadouts that overwinter in temperatures below -40F. Come spring, they go straight into the surviving hives on the first day it is safe to pop the tops.


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## libhart (Apr 22, 2010)

I was asking if the wax moth eggs were unviable at that point, in response to Mr. Bush's comment about them already being there. So I agree with him, if you just put frames in a vacuum bag and hope that no wax moth larvae will show up, I'm guessing you'll be out of luck because as he writes, there are already eggs there that you just can't see. But if the frames went through a winter, I'm thinking the eggs are dead, so putting them in a vacuum pack at the point would be ok, and keep moths (and therefore new eggs) out.


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## NDnewbeek (Jul 4, 2008)

Ahh, I did misunderstand - my apologies. It is my understanding that cold does kill wax moth eggs. However, I think that Mike B was commenting on simply storing frames in a bag without freezing them. But I have already misunderstood once, so who knows!


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Freezing (a hard freeze, not a light frost or a few hours in the freezer) will kill wax moth eggs. Then if you keep the moths out they will not lay in them. The other issue if they are not frozen, however is condensation on the plastic causing some portions to be wet and spoil if you have full combs of capped honey.


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## MJuric (Jul 12, 2010)

Michael Bush said:


> It may "seem like" the bags will keep the moths out, but the eggs are already there...


But with the vacuum bags they suck out the majority of the O2. Maybe the moths are so tiny that they can survive on the remaining amount that is there. 

That being said seems like freezing them would just be a whole lot easier.

~Matt


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## bbbbeeman (Jan 13, 2007)

if it were me extract the honey ,you can use the drawn cone and feed to the bees when ever, no wax mouths,good luck rock.


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## Tara (Jun 17, 2010)

NDnewbeek said:


> Perhaps I misunderstand your question, but honey that has been capped will never spoil. Edible honey has been found stored in clay pots in Egyptian tombs.


I thought the wax capping were somewhat permeable, and humidity (and possibly fermentation) could gradually expand the volume of honey so that it 'weeps' out thru the cappings. The cool thing about finding things in Egypt is that its dry there, hence mummies and all surviving, and honey remaining edible. But I think in a more humid environment you might have to worry a bit more.

Anyone else have inputs on this?


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## Countryboy (Feb 15, 2009)

I doubt wax moth larvae can survive living in a vacuum. In theory, frames vacuum sealed should provide wax moth protection. In reality, a tiny hole got poked in the bag without you realizing it when handling the frames, and it lost the vacuum seal.

If you seal a clay pot with melted beeswax, it should stay sealed in any part of the world. Keep in mind an old fashioned method of preserving jams and jellies involves pouring a layer of melted wax at the top of the jar to seal it up. How humid or dry a climate is should not have much effect on a wax seal.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I have seen several generations of lesser wax moths raised in a 1/8" gap between two glasses in my observation hive. There is nothing I can see for them to eat, little room, and yet they survive...


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## rgould (Apr 3, 2009)

A Beek that under estimates a wax moth or a small hive beetle will soon see that they were wrong in their decision. They appear out of thin air and usually reek their havock before a Beek even realizes that they were there. :doh:


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## PCM (Sep 18, 2007)

1 thing I have noticed in these Postings;

No one has mentioned wax moths "larva" do not eat wax or honey they eat 
left over Pollen remaining in the cells.

I understand that honey frames are not what wax moths want !

One thing I do know is don't put old brood frames in a plastic garbage bag and seal, Wax moths will chew threw the plastic.

Personely I use BT and don't worry about them. 

PCM


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## scdw43 (Aug 14, 2008)

I have lost hives in November as far south as I am, froze the combs, put in super on my garage with a plastic bag on the floor and on top of the super with an inner cover on top of that. In the spring if I was worried about wax moths I would freeze them again and return to the super with the plastic bag under and over the super until needed by another hive in March or April. My first frost date averages 10 November and last frost 10 April. It is better if they are exposed to the air to keep them from molding. Mold will mess up a comb as quick as wax moths. You just have to keep checking them.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I have seen wax moths live on bare comb, wet white comb, hard blocks of wax, and even the bare scraps that are in the cracks of the glass in my observation hive. They PREFER pollen and actually prefer the cocoons from the brood comb. But they seem capable of living on almost nothing at all including just wax, but do better on wax with honey on it and even better on brood comb and even better if it's brood comb with pollen in it...


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## paintingpreacher (Jul 29, 2006)

I have found wax worms in boxes of foundation.


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## Eek-a-beek (Oct 9, 2010)

I would be concerned the vacuum sealing process would crush the comb... Is that not the process that can flatten a down filled comforter? If you get away with it and are afraid of moth eggs being inside then a day in the freezer would solve the problem. But, why are you worried about spoiling and dust? Honey does not spoil and the bees will have no problem cleaning up any dust. Being a beginner myself I have not had a chance to see what works yet but I was getting the impression that one can just stack boxes up with PDB inside and they will be fine, with or without honey inside, the only issue being that any honey would then be unusable for human consumption. Perhaps someone has done that and can say what happened.


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## merdoc (May 4, 2010)

Do beeks still put supers in a room and open a can thats under pressure and sprays some kind of fumigant for wax moths.yep im that old.


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