# Formic Acid for Mites



## jhrusky (Jun 10, 2013)

We've been advised to use some formic acid on our hive to control any mites that may be in it this fall.
Once I remove the honey super, I believe I put a pad of formic acid directly on top of the frames in the top
brood box. My question is, how long do I leave this there? (Outdoor temp is around 72 high, 40 low at night)


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## jhrusky (Jun 10, 2013)

I'm going to add to this a bit ...
It was recommended that we use the formic acid once the goldenrod flow stops here (central Wisconsin) which it appears to have ... at the same time, we were advised to treat with tylan/powdered sugar for AFB and also to use nosema in their sugar-water, all treatments at the same time.

I just want to ensure this is a good thing to do before we do it.

NOTE: I noticed at around 11am today, sunny, perhaps 65 degrees, VERY little movement in front of the hive - almost as if no bees there... concerning. 

We have 2 deeps, full, and 1 honey super on top (haven't opened it yet to see if it's fully drawn out, but just put it on 1.5 weeks ago).


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Did you already do this or are you just gathering information?


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## jhrusky (Jun 10, 2013)

Gathering information - concerned that it may get too late to do but have not yet done.


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## DPBsbees (Apr 14, 2011)

If you have a mite problem I'd use the formic now. I hope you're using MAQS. I don't treat "just in case" for foulbrood. I'd skip the Tylan unless you know you have an issue. I also no longer treat for nosema using Fumagillin unless I suspect that the bees have it. There's growing evidence that it's value may be questionable.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

To treat or not is a controversial question, but this is not - most manipulations that you do with your bees (inspections, robbing honey, reversing boxes, all kinds of treatments, even feeding to some extent) can cause them some degree of stress. Also weather and seasonal activities cause stress - Heat, cold, robbing, swarming, etc. Stress kills. You probably don't want to intentionally cause multiple stresses all at the same time without a really good reason to do so. Quite the opposite.

Also there is a critical fall brood build up period (now in my area) where the hive is producing the population of young bees which will sustain it all winter long. If you are going to treat during this period you sure don't want to do anything that will either interrupt the process or kill a lot of brood - improper application of formic acid for example. The results could be fatal to the colony. 

After the fall build up ends there are (in areas with a real winter) usually a few weeks (early to mid December here) when there is little or no brood in the hives, but they are still actively foraging on nice days - which is a good time to apply some mite treatments before winter. 

The other (probably) best time to treat for mites is already past - mid to late summer Before the fall build up. 

You probably want some more specific (and correct correct) directions on exactly what you should do with your bees and when you should do it. But, what you really need is a knowledgeable local mentor who knows about the local seasons and to educate yourself about the many options.

I think though that you might have been given some questionable advice - or misunderstood the advice that you were given.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

If you are going to treat, considering the time of the year, you may want to find an alternative method of treatment. Perhaps Oxalic Acid. It is gentle on the bees, yet kills the mites. There are lots of posts here on BS about using it and other treatments. A little research ....


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

Here is the study that I have been working off of for what it is worth, I already posted it today so not going to go into a bunch of detail. Application temperatures 60 to 90 degrees.
Good luck.
http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/varroa/FormicAcidppt.pdf
Here is West Virginia’s honey bee page:
http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/varroa/


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## Belewsboy (Jun 6, 2012)

I used the method as described on the link Minz has given, last year. You use dilluted formic acid and HoneyBee Healthy on a fume pad. Its very cheap and very quick and one application did the trick. However, there is a risk of the workers balling the queen. At this time of the year that would be lethal to the hive. The HoneyBee Healthy is supposed to prevent the bees from turning on the queen, but there is still a chance. I was going to do the treatment on 4 of my hives last weekend, but I decided to install my IPM boards and check the mite drop. In 24 hrs, 3 hives had none...1 had a few. The 3 that had no mites swarmed this spring and had a brood break, so I will not be treating them this Fall. I'm leaving the boards on for 2 more days and will recheck. I am undecided on what I'll do with the 1 hive and will see what its board looks like in a couple of days.
However...if I do treat with the fume pad, I will drench the hive with concentrated HoneyBee Healthy immediately before adding the fume pad. I've never heard of anyone doing this, but I feel like if I have the HBH smell in the hive for a period of time before introducing the formic mix, it may give a little more insurance from losing my queen.


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## JimmyA (Jul 22, 2013)

Just use MAQS for 7 days, then aren't you done? I just ordered some.


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## WWW (Feb 6, 2011)

Yes you would be done with the treatment but a word of caution if I might, as already stated above there is a real risk of loosing your queen when using formic and Your hive or hives are most likely giving the drones a toss at this time in preparation for winter so the hives will not be able to requeen themselves if needed. Stop to consider where you could get a queen before using the formic acid. A good time for applying formic is in late summer, Oxalic Acid Vaporization is a better option at this time as there is much less risk to the bees.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

Tylan works on AFB only, AFB is rare. But it does work better than Terramycin which only suppresses AFB for a short time and barely works on EFB.

Know you diseases so you can spot them quickly. 
Spotty or shot gun brood pattern may be the first sign.

http://www.beeculture.com/storycms/index.cfm?cat=Story&recordID=92


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## Andrew Dewey (Aug 23, 2005)

Will you be using a homemade formic solution or a prepared product like MAQS? MAQS has specific instructions for how the product should be used and those are different from the advice you were given. And as noted earlier, the prime season for treating a colony for mites so that they can produce healthy winter bees is past.

Where you are in the US I'd stay away from Oxalic Acid - It has not been approved for use as a miticide in the US.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Andrew Dewey said:


> , the prime season for treating a colony for mites so that they can produce healthy winter bees is past.


Not true in my opinion. Now is one of the better times to treat. Brood is probably on the low side and those treatments that target mites on bees can't but help. MAQS is a good treatment (altho one needs to be careful of temps and hive strength) OA is another. While true it is not approved as a miticide, it works! You can't but help to hear at State & Regional Mtgs how the "Big Whigs" are using it and the how much they like the results.

To each his / her own....


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## JimmyA (Jul 22, 2013)

I ordered Mite Away Quick Strips. I guess those are the wrong ones then? I have some Apivar but I was told not to use those for mites either.
I am in Fort Wayne, Indiana.

Jim


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## DPBsbees (Apr 14, 2011)

I agree that it would have been preferable for you to treat earlier, if you have a high mite load now, you may not see those bees in the spring. Definitely better late than never if you've done a mite count by a reliable method and the numbers are high. If my mite levels were high now, I would use a single MAQS treatment.


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## JimmyA (Jul 22, 2013)

I have a SBB, don't really see any mites. At least none that I can see with a magnifying glass. If I have any, they are very small.


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## DPBsbees (Apr 14, 2011)

Try a sugar shake, or preferably, an alcohol wash. They are both more reliable than SBB counts.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

JimmyA said:


> If I have any, they are very small.


Open up some drone brood to see if you can find mites there. If they are there, I'd treat....


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## JimmyA (Jul 22, 2013)

I hate to bother them. I just have 2 nucs. I never did a sugar shake or alcohol wash. I can check to see if they have drone brood. They are Russian in one Nuc and the other Nuc has Minnesota Hygenic. If I am going to treat, I better get on it before long. They are on Sugar syrup. I have fondant for the winter.


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