# 10 Nuc Increase



## BoroBees (Jan 1, 2015)

If one were to buy 10 nucs, with the sole intention of using them for increase, what would be the best way to go about it? I know it's variable dependent on many things,. But average hive/average flow, do you let them developas 10 full hives, then make nucs/splits? Manage the 10 nucs as nucs and make increase off of those? Done combination of the two?


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Install them in 10 frame equipment and allow them to build up. Then during the second half of your flow, split the slowest 25-30% into nucs.


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## Adam Foster Collins (Nov 4, 2009)

BoroBees,

I'd like to clarify your question more:

Are you describing a situation where you have no hives, and then you want to build up as fast as you can using 10 nucs? Or are you talking about buying 10 nucs and adding them to an existing operation?

Mike Palmer:

I'm interested in your perspective here. Can you explain your answer a bit more? Why go to the 10 frame gear and use only the weakest for nucs in the first winter? Could one also attempt to turn the original 10 colonies into as many viable 4-over-4 over-wintering nucs as possible? Is there a way to do that as well, or is going to the 10-frame stage necessary in your view?

Adam


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## BoroBees (Jan 1, 2015)

My intention would be to make x production hives next year. I'm just having trouble with the variables of it all. Primarily, because I don't have much experience managing nucs as overwintered nucs. I see where it would be more efficient and less management to put them in hives for the spring build up, but it seems like you could split those nucs after they were built up. Also seems cheaper to use nuc equipment to do this, as you would not have all that equipment tied up in overwintering hives vs nucs. I hadn't actually considered building them up as hives and them splitting them back to nucs.


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## orthoman (Feb 23, 2013)

Hopefully Mr. Palmer will expand on his answer - he always gives great information.

I don't see any big difference on managing a nuc or full size hive. Once you make the nuc - either structure it so they can make their own queen or provide them with a queen -- the later will provide much faster build up; however, the former allows a brood break and can help with mite control.

If you want to continue dividing your nucs - go ahead and do it. You should be making nucs anyway to keep your operation going to replace deadouts and keep your hive numbers up as well as to have a source of brood frames, bees, queens if you need them.

Of course, the nuc isn't a production hive. If you want to make the nuc into production hives, then you transfer them into a bigger box and add supers as needed so they can build up a large population - that is, you don't keep splitting them. 

Really, the management isn't much different.

If you have not seen Mike Palmers videos from the National Honey Show - you need to watch it - it is on Youtube.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

In my area of the south we only have one flow - about 6 weeks centered around May. That period is when 85% or more of the comb gets built even in a good year. Another factor here is that a 5 frame deep overwinters as well as anything if you keep it fed. Also an overwintered 5 frame deep (or equivalent) is very likely build up early and be a good production unit when may rolls around again next year.

So here is what I would do if my goal was to have as many production hives as possible next spring ('16):
- Keep them intact for the flow and give them room to grow and get them to draw out as much comb as possible.
- Around June 1 break them into as many 4-5 frame units as possible - based upon how many frames of comb you have. If you have 120 frames of comb then split into 24-30 nucs.
- Any that fail to thrive get used for parts to reinforce the good ones.
- The number of hives you go into winter with mostly depends on the amt of comb you get built in May.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

I believe Mr Palmers point and I totally agree is that when a colony starts lagging behind and a third usually seem to, You won't lose much if any honey production by making the laggards into nucs to overwinter for next years expansion, replacements or sale. You should produce honey with the rest. How to do this is the subject of many forum discussions and you tube video's.


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## cheezer32 (Feb 3, 2009)

I would build them up to double strength, 20 good frames feeding pollen constantly and syrup as needed (don't want to backfill them just enough that they have a usable supply) 

I would then evenly divide them 4 ways, add 2lbs of pollen sub and a mated queen. Build up to over winter. You could use a triple stack nuc box (these do very well here), a single deep, or double deep. Depending on how much time you have left, and how quickly they grow. I would plan to feed the entire year, but in a fashion that it's being used for more bees and not stored, untill fall anyhow when your building winter stores.


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## Ret Sgt. Robert Yates (Dec 5, 2014)

David LaFerney said:


> In my area of the south we only have one flow - about 6 weeks centered around May. That period is when 85% or more of the comb gets built even in a good year. Another factor here is that a 5 frame deep overwinters as well as anything if you keep it fed. Also an overwintered 5 frame deep (or equivalent) is very likely build up early and be a good production unit when may rolls around again next year.
> 
> So here is what I would do if my goal was to have as many production hives as possible next spring ('16):
> - Keep them intact for the flow and give them room to grow and get them to draw out as much comb as possible.
> ...



E'llo Brother David,

I have seen this method to work very well here in Tennessee, The Virginia's, Kentucky, NC, AL, Georgia, Mississippi, Missouri, Florida, and many of the Southern States as well David. I have done only a few in the Northern States such as Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, & Wisconsin. However, I do have a few more trips planned for this year to help out some clientele that have requested some help developing their Apiaries to grow this year . 

Also thank you for this input as it also goes with the research that I have been studying for the Southern and some Northern Regions .

Best Regards David ,


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## sterling (Nov 14, 2013)

David LaFerney said:


> In my area of the south we only have one flow - about 6 weeks centered around May. That period is when 85% or more of the comb gets built even in a good year. Another factor here is that a 5 frame deep overwinters as well as anything if you keep it fed. Also an overwintered 5 frame deep (or equivalent) is very likely build up early and be a good production unit when may rolls around again next year.
> 
> So here is what I would do if my goal was to have as many production hives as possible next spring ('16):
> - Keep them intact for the flow and give them room to grow and get them to draw out as much comb as possible.
> ...


What David said except I would wait to make the splits towards the end of June and give each split a newly mated queen and feed. They should build up fine for the winter in the Boro. It does here in Mt Juliet.


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## McBee7 (Dec 25, 2013)

Hello BoroBees...
I hope to impliment a plan that is similar to yours but in a parrall vein for 2015...
I currently have 22 hives, 7----10 frame hives 2 story
and , 15 nucs 2 and 3 story...My goals for this year are to harvest a signifacant amount of honey (compared to last year) and increase my apiary to 50 hives if possible..... 
I feal my real horsepower lies in my nucs. so I plan to manage 10 plus of them as M. Palmer suggests in 10 frame boxs, but the remainder I will use to populate 4 double nucs as Mr. Palmer also touts.
I will build the 15 nucs on syrup and pollen into spring but when the 4 weakest nucs reach 6/7 brood frames they will be split into the 4 double nucs (8 collonies in 4 boxs). These will be used solely for expansion....and as they increase their brood nest from 6/7 brood frames I'll harvest one frame from that collony....My hope is that they will be able to generate that 7th frame every 10 days, (1/2 brood cycle).....So every 30 days they should generate 3times8 or 24 frames of brood.......Which can be split into 12, 2 frame nuc starts per month. This will happen on a week by week basis, but I think I have very healthy nucs that are treated and vigorus, and can produce this output. If I can maintain this production of brood from the nucs for 8 weeks, I'll have 24 nucs to overwinter in 2015/16 Plus the 4 double nucs....
This is a loose take off of the "Cushman method #1" but I don't have a special queen to use, as that method uses to mother all the nucs. I'll forgo that part of the formula and follow Mr. Palmers plan for populating his cell builders with the frames of brood, but instead use them to build nucs in an expansion mode.....I will supply mated queens for the nucs to increase reliability and speed of the nucs in their build........I don't know if there is anything here of use to you BoroBees but use what you can....
-OK, fire away, I feel like I'm letting it all hang out here and am braced for rebutal ,,, 

==McBee7==


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## BoroBees (Jan 1, 2015)

McBee7 said:


> Hello BoroBees...
> I hope to impliment a plan that is similar to yours but in a parrall vein for 2015...
> I currently have 22 hives, 7----10 frame hives 2 story
> and , 15 nucs 2 and 3 story...My goals for this year are to harvest a signifacant amount of honey (compared to last year) and increase my apiary to 50 hives if possible.....
> ...


Thank you, everyone. Great to see people willing to be so helpful!


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## 78-79fordman (Mar 23, 2014)

Grow then in to nives and split and build nucs out of the strong . 

I started this year this 18 nucs that bought and made 35 full grown hives could have made a few more did make a few more but couple didn't make it . Not bad for a first time beeeeper . I could have split them down to 70 nucs to over winter and mite should have . But there's my thoughts


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## McBee7 (Dec 25, 2013)

Wow Fordman that was a great expansion, especially in your first year!!
I wonder if you let them raise their own queens, or if you supplied mated ones??

==McBee7==


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

You can certainly increase your hive count rapidly if you try. I bought one package on May 13, '09 and by Sept 1 of '10 had 10 hives - all of which made it through the winter. Without bringing in bees or queens.

You can't be afraid to split though.


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## 78-79fordman (Mar 23, 2014)

McBee7 said:


> Wow Fordman that was a great expansion, especially in your first year!!
> I wonder if you let them raise their own queens, or if you supplied mated ones??
> 
> ==McBee7==


Most where with mated did do some with raise there on . Faster better results with using a breed queen.
I pulled zero honey off them all so . Did move it around as needed . I was mainly seeing if I could grow bees my first year . And believe I have it some what figured out . Lol


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## ChuckReburn (Dec 17, 2013)

Your approach for increase should depend on your plan for queens. For my increase this spring, we will be using 8 frame deeps. Weather is an early factor but once they are at 4 or more frames of brood, they can donate 1. With 10 hives, doubling or tripling numbers should be achievable. As we have a good source for local queens I can get them as I need them. Catch a few swarms and install with a frame or 2 of brood and you have an additional comb builder. Drawn comb is a limiting factor.


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## j.kuder (Dec 5, 2010)

i don't remember the xact timing but the beginning of april spring before last i got back into beekeeping with 3 five frame nucs. i let them build up. in beginning of june i started raising some queens when the queen cells were ready i broke the 3 original colonies into about 12 nucs with 2 frames of brood each. ended up with 15 total out of 3 and 12 made it thru the winter with dry sugar on top.


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