# Top-bar hives and screened bottoms



## kawayanan (Aug 11, 2006)

Thanks to my local beekeepers assoc, I have multiple offers for places to keep bees.







I have ordered two packages and can get down to business making my hives. From everything I have read, it seems that screened bottom boards are generally considered a good thing. They make sense to me for both mite drops and ventilation. When I set about trying to plan a TBH, I figured I would put a screened bottom on it. Most of the TBH's I have seen on the web have a solid bottom though. I assume this is mostly for ease of construction. The only one I remember seeing with a SBB is Leonard Barton's CalKenyan. Now that I am getting close to starting to build one, the details have prompted a couple of questions.

1) How much would having a SBB help? From a design stand point, its not too much harder, and I don't consider that a problem. Are there con's to a SBB that I might not have thought of (other than harder to make or needing a way to close it for either winter of mite drop counts).

2) Leonard Barton's design adds an additional layer of material between the comb and the screen to control the length of the comb. I would assume that without this, the bees would attach the comb to the screen at the bottom. Is that right, and how much of a problem would people think that would cause? I assume it might make detaching the comb a bigger problem than normal.

3) Related to question two, if I want to keep the comb from attaching to screen at the bottom I was thinking of possibly placing slats at the bottom of the hive. Kind of like a slatted rack idea. Using extra plywood I could try to position small slats under where each comb would go in the same way that slatted racks can line up with the frames. That way the comb would not be attached to the screen, you still get the advantages of the SBB, and you might also get the advantages of a slatted rack. What do you think of this idea?

4) If I do the slat idea from 3), would you leave space between the bottom of the slats and the screen? From what I can understand of the slatted rack, there is a space between the racks and the bottom (area to cluster?). I could either leave a space, or attach the screen to the bottom of the slats. 

As you can probably tell form these questions, I am not trying to make the simplest TBH around. I currently only plan on making two, and my time with a table saw isn't much of a worry (in fact, I like the woodworking part







) I know that time is money, but in my situation (grad student), I can spare time, but not so much money.







I have tried to keep my design reasonably cheap in term of wood to buy, but don't mind a bit more time spent if I can have a hive I will enjoy more (and be proud of).

Thank you everyone for all your help on these forums, and a special thanks to those who also keep up websites about their TBH's. Its all been invaluable so far, and I assume will be even more help when I get my bees.









Kawayanan


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## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

kawayanan 

all the questions you ask are good ones
none of them have real answers, just opinions
I can guarantee you one thing, as soon as you finish bulding it you will want to change something, and when you put bees in it you'll want to change something else
keep the first stab at it simple
learn what works
save the "furniture grade" hive for after you've played with it a bit
I'm going through the same thing with observation hives
my first one will be firewood by mid summer
the second one is going to be "nice"
as far as racks go
I think it sounds like a good idea
try some implementation of em and see what you think
I like the idea of running them the long way
make em all the way down to the screen so you can attach the screen to them
the bees are "supposed" to leave a gap between the combs and the slatts (or the combs and the screen if you don't use slatts) but they don't always read the manual  

Dave 

(go pack







)


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>1) How much would having a SBB help? 

I don't think it makes that much difference.

>2) Leonard Barton's design adds an additional layer of material between the comb and the screen to control the length of the comb. I would assume that without this, the bees would attach the comb to the screen at the bottom.

Rarely.

> Is that right, and how much of a problem would people think that would cause?

Not much.

>3) Related to question two, if I want to keep the comb from attaching to screen at the bottom I was thinking of possibly placing slats at the bottom of the hive. Kind of like a slatted rack idea. 

That has been done. But it makes the hive much more complicated. Part of the appeal of a TBH for me is it's simplicity.

>What do you think of this idea?

It will work fine. I think it's too much work.

>4) If I do the slat idea from 3), would you leave space between the bottom of the slats and the screen?

Yes. I'd leave at least 1 1/2" below it.

> From what I can understand of the slatted rack, there is a space between the racks and the bottom (area to cluster?). I could either leave a space, or attach the screen to the bottom of the slats.

That's the idea. The idea is that there is a place for the bees to cluster underneath the rack, but too small a space for them to want to build comb.


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## JaiPea (Sep 27, 2005)

Let me echo the above sentiments that you go easy on time and complexity the first time around.

You might want to consider making a couple of different style of TBH to decide on a direction. The KTBH's sloping sides are supposed to reduce comb attached to the sides but that's not been true for me. It doesn't matter whether the hive is sloped or vertical, the bees attach fresh comb to the sides because it is weak and needs support. A few weeks later when the comb has hardened and you cut the attachment away, they tend not to reattach.

The KTBH does simplify handling, you don't have to lift the bars vertically to avoid the sides, but those slopes cost you in comb area. Depending on the dimensions you use, about 1/3 is lost to the slope and that either reduces hive volume or requires the hive be 1/3 longer to compensate. All of my hives now are long boxes (aka Tanzanian).

When Michael commented that slatted racks make an uncomplicated project complicated he was spot on. FWIW, the bees have never attached comb to the screens on mine and they do not cluster outside, even in 100+ temperatures. It isn't just the screened bottoms, the capped combs are cut out to save the bees having to work overtime at preventing comb collapse. This provides more room inside the hive along with the added bonus that crush 'n strain is quick and easy during the heat.

JP


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## empilolo (Oct 7, 2006)

A "traditional" type of northern Europe/German hive.

http://www.bodenschatz.de/ 

check out > beutensysteme > einraumbeute

They are referred to in Germany as "Trogbeute", which translates as - trough (vat) hive.

edit Feb 24
Interior measurements: width 301 mm, length 790 mm, height 490 mm
exterior measurements: width 351 mm, length 840 mm, height 560 mm

There is no other significant information in the German text.

You may also find the "Weissenseifener Hängekorb" an interesting hive.

[ February 24, 2007, 05:46 AM: Message edited by: empilolo ]


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## crazy hivan (Aug 17, 2006)

>A "traditional" type of northern Europe/German hive.

I couldn't understand the German but I have been kicking around the idea of making a "Tall" hive for my next Crazy Hive project. Looks like the frames of that hive are about 18-24 inches Tall and maybe 12- 15 inches wide. I think I'll start messing around with some volume calculations.

Thanks,

Stu


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## ClatsOre (Jul 27, 2004)

*Long Hives bottom boards*

My bottom boards are removable so you can clean the dead bees off in the spring and also put screen bottom boards in during the summer. I have the entrance mounted on the bottom board so when you pull it you have a 2” gap for all the dead bees and stuff to come out of the hive.


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