# Follower Board (False Back) Question



## ♥Faerie♥ (May 16, 2011)

Anybody???


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## blist (Jun 15, 2010)

I'm pretty new but since it looks like you are waiting for a reply...

You should be able to move the follower board to the back without any problems once they start building. Some people don't even use them (I took mine out as well). Where are they building comb if not toward the front? One reason some people use a follower board is to get them to start building toward the front initially, once they start building they move the board to the the back.


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## angryhippie (Mar 11, 2010)

Personally, I would leave it in place until they got a little further along. The false back also helps keep the comb straight until you have one of 2 drawn out. If you just installed the package last Wednesday, I would leave them be for another week or 2 to let them get established and built out more.


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## blist (Jun 15, 2010)

angryhippie said:


> Personally, I would leave it in place until they got a little further along. The false back also helps keep the comb straight until you have one of 2 drawn out. If you just installed the package last Wednesday, I would leave them be for another week or 2 to let them get established and built out more.


How does the false back help them build straight comb? They usually use the adjacent comb as a guide.


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## angryhippie (Mar 11, 2010)

At least in my experience it gave them a confined space to build comb in which helped ensure that they aren't building cross comb...well...at least not as much cross comb


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## ♥Faerie♥ (May 16, 2011)

Thanks everyone, I had read that once you remove the false back, if they have built comb close to the board, about bar 10 or further back, that you should move the brood nest closer to the front, around the 3rd bar or so... I think I may leave it in until the weekend, I am pretty new to this, so its great to get everyone's opinion....thanks again!


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## heatherbee (May 10, 2011)

I'm new as well, I was told to start with 10 bars available to the bees, then when they draw comb within 2-3 bars of the board to move it away from the entrance. It's worked for me so far. I hadn't heard anything about moving the brood comb, so I'll follow this post to see what more experienced keepers say.


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## Adam Foster Collins (Nov 4, 2009)

♥Faerie♥;666428 said:


> ...I had read that once you remove the false back, if they have built comb close to the board, about bar 10 or further back, that you should move the brood nest closer to the front, around the 3rd bar or so...


Where have the bees built comb so far? Are they building far from the door?

You can move them closer to the door end once they have a few combs going if you like. This would better make sure the nest is at that end - which is nice for keeping it separate from stores. And this is really important for areas with hard winters. They may move to that end themselves though. As far as moving the follower board, I'd say just move it all the way back if they have a few combs going parallel to each other.

I like a follower myself. It comes in handy for different things. I don't see a reason not to have it on hand, so if you've made one, I'd say just keep it at the back end of the hive once they get a few combs underway.

When I started hives last year, I gave them about 10 bars to begin with, and they filled that space so fast I couldn't believe it. So if you move it all the way back, it justs ensures that you don't squeeze them unnecessarily. 

Adam


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## AuntBee (Apr 26, 2011)

I'm new as well--just started my first hive in March. I've been moving my follower back a little at a time as the bees build within 2 or 3 bars of it. I put in several more bars last weekend and also put some empty bars between the full ones. The weather here in mid-TN is so hot already--in the high 90's--that I have been worrying about ventilation. I have opened up all four entrances. I have also noticed that with the hotter weather, my bars are not fitting as tightly for some reason, so I have left a tiny space (about 1/8") between some of them to allow air to escape. I was worried that this might not be a good thing, so was glad to see someone say that this is what they do. I wonder if moving the follower all the way back might be another way to help the girls to keep it cooler in there.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>How does the false back help them build straight comb? They usually use the adjacent comb as a guide. 

I don't actually use one, so they obviously are not necessary. But I have done top bars everything from five frame nucs to 33 frame long top bar and you will have less issues if you give them less room to be creative. If you have the time to mess with them, moving it gradually will help insure straight comb. If you don't have the time to mess with it, pull it out.


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## ♥Faerie♥ (May 16, 2011)

Thanks everyone for your replies, I decided to go ahead and remove the board completely a few days ago. They seem to be doing well, they have around 8 bars going now with comb on them, so I am hoping that is good being that they have been there almost 2 weeks now!


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## garden angel (Jun 5, 2011)

I'm new to this bees, top bars and this forum. I need some help on all fronts.... When folks say to make sure the bees are all the way to the front, do they mean the very first bar? That makes me a bit nervous .... lost in the world of bees.


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## Adam Foster Collins (Nov 4, 2009)

It means positioning the cluster and nest (where all the eggs are) near the entrance in a top bar hive which has an entrance at one end.

How are your bees doing now? When did you install them and what do you see so far? Where are they focusing their activity and building comb?

To help get you "un-lost" we need to know where you are at this point.

Adam


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## garden angel (Jun 5, 2011)

My bees will be hived 2 weeks this Thursday. I've had several issues.
- my bees decided to make their entry up through the underboard drawer and through the mesh.... my mesh on the bottom is 1/4 inch....too big, I know now!
-the bees had started making their comb towards the back....
- I went inside the hive and reversed all the comb (7-8 combs so far) putting the last one first in order ...
- yesterday I sealed the spot on the underboard, where they had been using as an entry. Last night most of them were entering through the front entry holes. I still have bees wanting to go back to the old entry on the underboard.
- I too have taken out my follower boards as recommended by some folks on facebook top bar site.
I just want to do the right thing for my bees. 
I appreciate any help I can get.


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## Adam Foster Collins (Nov 4, 2009)

Sounds like you've got things in order well enough at the moment. Just let them adjust to your alterations. I don't see a reason to be stressed out right now. No just enjoy watching them come and go.

Do you have a window in the hive? If you do, then you can peek in now and then to see how they're progressing. If not, then wait a few days and take another quick look. No need to do anything unless them start cross-combing or something. If the combs you moved were straight, then they'll likely be fine.

The only mistake you've made so far is the 1/4" mesh. And that didn't hurt them at all. 

Follower boards are a matter of preference, and having the bees begin at the entrance end really only helps keep the brood separate from the honey. You could have left them on the other end, and they might have eventually worked their way to the entrance end. But by moving them, you're likely to have a clear division between brood and honey sooner than if they had to move. You'll also have honey combs with no brood cocoons in it - and that makes for good comb honey eating. Nice, white combs to bite right off the bar in the Fall.

You're doing just fine. Take a minute to be happy that you have those bees around.

Adam


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## garden angel (Jun 5, 2011)

Adam, thank you for your calming message. I DO need to take a breath and remember how fortunate I am my bees are still here, foraging in my garden and they're working so hard doing their job! Thanks for that reminder. 

I'll be looking for 1/8 inch mesh to overlay on top of the 1/4 inch mesh, just so they'll stop going under it. Right now, my bees are happily learning the new entry. I was able to look inside the observation window this morning and all is well! Phew....

Yes the comb I moved was all straight and gloriously beautiful....still in awe over that.
I do have to go in to feed them today. My next hive will have an exterior feeder so I don't have to go in and disturb them. 

My husband and I will be starting to build a new tbh soon. I'm not sure I even want to have mesh bottom. There are so many conflicting opinions out there. I lean towards not having the mesh, since that's the way they do it in nature anyway.

ohmmmmmmmm
breathe.....
thanks again Adam....


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## ♥Faerie♥ (May 16, 2011)

I looked inside my window yesterday, and it seems they are building all the combs in the middle of the hive? I have an end entrance, and the combs start around the 8th or 9th bar back. Is this ok? Should I go in and move them forward a few bars or leave them alone? One other question, I noticed that they had started to attach some of the comb to the observation window. How do you go about dis-attaching this when you want to pull a bar for inspection or harvest? This is my first year at this, so learning as I go, thanks everyone!


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## garden angel (Jun 5, 2011)

Faerie,
I'm a newbee, so take what I say with that in mind. Last week my hive was in the exact condition (8 comb built in the middle of the hive). I was told by some experienced tbh keepers to move them in order to the front of the hive. I'd love to hear others opinion of this. I went in and just took the first on they built and put it in the front and sequentially put the rest of them in order behind it. NEWBEE for sure.... I know a little more today than yesterday....only a teensy bit.


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## Adam Foster Collins (Nov 4, 2009)

Faerie,

If the combs are straight and easy to move, I would move them closer to the door. Leave one empty bar between the door end wall and the first comb, to allow them to make a comb there with the right space near the wall - or not build one at all.

You don't HAVE to move them, and they will be fine. But they tend to locate the nest near the door, so it's likely that they'll move that way gradually if you leave them. That means backfilling those middle combs with honey later. This means you will eventually have honey in combs with cocoons left in them, which is no good for comb honey (if you take it for yourself). You could still crush and strain it. But it also means that the bees are located at one end and can move from there in one direction to stores during the winter.

If you move them, they will expand the nest until they're happy with it and then start storing full bars of honey on new white comb. It keeps it all nicely separate, and nice for harvesting comb honey later if you choose to do so.

It's a choice, not a panic. If the bees are building straight, you're doing great. Things are relatively easy to manipulate with straight comb.

You need to select/make a hive tool. DeeAnna uses a long, cake knife. I use a modified bbq "flipper", others use a long serrated knife. You make that call. It should be long enough to reach in far enough to cut comb attachments loose when you are inspecting. As you go along, you run the knife down the sides of each comb to make sure it's free before you lift it.

As the summer wears on and the combs get heavy, the bees will increase the amount they attach; mostly in the top few inches. It's a structural necessity, and not a worry.

Good to see new people taking it up. Remember, TBH's are not "better for the bees" in themselves. That's a question of how you manage them. Langstroth beekeepers are your friends, and there are a lot more of them to share knowledge with you. Most of which applies just fine to a TBH - because most issues are related more to bee behavior than they are to hive type. There are too many newbee TBH keepers alienating themselves by touting the top bars as "better" or "more natural". Not that you are, it's just a general observation.

Most of us are way too inexperienced to know what is better and what isn't. That's my 2 cents. Take it or leave it.

Have fun, and stay open. The bee is a miracle. 

Adam


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## ♥Faerie♥ (May 16, 2011)

Thanks so much Garden Angel and Adam, like I said, I am a first year here, and learning as I go being that I have no one close that can guide me. I may go in this afternoon and more them forward a bit, just since I am such a novice, that it may help me to better keep an eye on brood comb and honey stores. All the combs I have seen are perfectly straight, so I am excited they are doing well that way... Thanks again for the advice, this will definitely not be the last question I ask, I have many many more!


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## Adam Foster Collins (Nov 4, 2009)

♥Faerie♥;670052 said:


> ...this will definitely not be the last question I ask, I have many many more!


You and me both!

Adam


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## blist (Jun 15, 2010)

garden angel said:


> Adam, thank you for your calming message. I DO need to take a breath and remember how fortunate I am my bees are still here, foraging in my garden and they're working so hard doing their job! Thanks for that reminder.
> 
> I'll be looking for 1/8 inch mesh to overlay on top of the 1/4 inch mesh, just so they'll stop going under it. Right now, my bees are happily learning the new entry. I was able to look inside the observation window this morning and all is well! Phew....
> 
> ...


I am in super hot zone (south Texas) and didn't use a mesh bottom...one entrance on end (bottom).


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