# Flat deck truck ?



## hedges (May 18, 2013)

Well, I don't have a large scale operation, but I just got back from working one. The had 1 tons that could hold 8 pallets and then double stack them (16 total), and 2 tons that could hold probably double or triple that.

The 1 tons that I've seen for bees have been 3500s and 350s and work fine - able to tow along a hummer bee, but most flat beds I've seen on those trucks outside beekeeping have had shorter beds. I'm not sure if those longer 16 ft beds were reinforced or something.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

You will get lots of different opinions on this. For me the regular cab f-550 or Ram 5500 4x4 in 192" wb with a 14' bed is the perfect bee truck. It will haul 10 standard pallets per layer. 10,000 + pounds of weight and you can park it in the driveway like a car at the end of the day. What's not to like about them... Ok, yeah they are a bit rough riding when empty.


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

What Jim said.
If you buy a 350 or 450 you will eventually want a 550. So why not just buy one now.
There are always folks posting that they haul a bazillion hives on their 450 and tow a trailer with the Empire State Building on a trailer behind.
Legally, 56 - 64 is going to be tops. and even less if loaded with honey super & honey.
Sure, you can stack on any amount you want but the little sticker inside the door jam is the law.
If you can, go for the 550 with the 19500 gvw option.
And later on do youself A GREAT BIG FAVOR and have a Detroit Locker installed in your rear axle. You will always be glad that you did!


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## dback (Jan 8, 2012)

^^^ 100% what Jim & Harry said........550 or 5500 4x4


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## borada bee doc (Feb 6, 2010)

Ben, In the states, the max. weight before requiring a commercial license is 26k. This means is that when you or an employee tow a 10k trailer, you will need the CDL when driving a 550. A 550 could tow a 7k trailer without a CDL which should work for your Kubota. You definitely want diesel and 4x4 may save alot of tow charges but this will get you a heavier truck and therefore less payload. The max load for my F450 is 8 pallets of hive and a half colonies. This lets me place 2 outyards per load. The shorter wheelbase of a 12' flatbed allows me to access beeyards that others can't get into, giving more options for placing bees. My Chevy 3500HD has a GVW of 15k, identical to the F450, but has a 16' bed. It came with an aluminum panel replacing the rear glass, broken by frame flex. 16' bed 3500 = bad idea. The '90s 3500s seem to depreciate more than other trucks so you might be able to get one for <$4,000. Here is an example: http://eugene.craigslist.org/cto/4134291943.html The 6.2L turbo diesel is fuel efficient and will work well if you are not pulling alot of hills. I paid <$3000 for mine and consider it a throwaway truck. Great for the son/hired guy. A 7.3L F450 seems to hold its value more, so more spendy. Here is an example: http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/hvo/4202952167.html
One thing to consider with your setup is if the loader will place the second pallet high enough to stack the second level. Looking at the specs, it probably will lift only one pallet. A 2WD truck would have a lower deck height if this was an issue. All considered, my preference is a daily driver F450 with a backup truck and extra trailer.


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## Sadler91 (Nov 6, 2011)

Im my opinion a 2wd diesel smaller truck, like a 350-550 range, is a waste of time. Heavy in the nose and sandy/muddy situations don't mix. 4x4 F550 with a 15'-16' ft bed would be my ideal truck. Dodge builds junk trucks. Cradle for a Cummins.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Once Navistar did away with the 7.3 the rest where junk motors. What about the new 6.7? Is that built by Ford now? I bought a Ram 5500 because I wanted that Cummins and have no regrets.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

BMAC said:


> Once Navistar did away with the 7.3 the rest where junk motors. What about the new 6.7? Is that built by Ford now? I bought a Ram 5500 because I wanted that Cummins and have no regrets.


Ford's 6.7 is now a Ford built engine. There was a "divorce" from Navistar after all the problems with the 6.0 and 6.4's. I have heard mixed reports early on but assume they have pretty much gotten it right by now. I went with the Ram because I figured the Cummins was a safer bet AND I got quoted $4,000 less (in 2011) for virtually identical trucks. No regrets 30,000 miles later. The newer cabs are a vast improvement over what they used to build as well. I think it's more "pick your flavor" nowadays, they are both reliable, functional trucks with similar capabilities though I continue to have a bit more confidence in a diesel built by Cummins, a company whose only business is diesel engines. Ram is also offering a manual transmission option (which Ford does not) and now a new gas engine as well which I think savvy buyers should consider if you aren't going to be pulling a lot or driving a lot of miles, with the continued difference between diesel and gas prices the operating costs are probably going to be pretty close.. The Cummins is a $7,000 upgrade and the Aisan auto tranny is around 2 grand.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

I would have rathered had the manual transmission, but mine has the Aisan tranny. I dont think its figured out how to properly shift for RPMs and speed yet. Sometimes in tow mode with exhaust brake on with foot off trottle it still hangs in 4th gear at say 30MPH.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

BMAC said:


> I would have rathered had the manual transmission, but mine has the Aisan tranny. I dont think its figured out how to properly shift for RPMs and speed yet. Sometimes in tow mode with exhaust brake on with foot off trottle it still hangs in 4th gear at say 30MPH.


Yes it does seem to make some odd gear choices from time to time. Of course you can always manually shift quite easily if you choose. I see in the 13's they have apparently "beefed up" the transmission a bit and modified the shift points as well and now have upped the engine torque output to 750 while it remains at 650 for the manual.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Mine is a left over 12. I try not to use the manual shift paddle as I am wondering if the computer needs to learn how to shift it yet. So far the heaviest I have pulled with it is 30K combination for some local Amish hauling lumber. Maxed out both truck and trailer. It seemed to run just fine. In fact it run it effortlessly until I had to start on hills. Then it was slow going until I crested that hill. Once up to speed it seemed to just glide over the hilly terrain here. It sure beats the heck out of my 97 F450.


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## John Lockhart (Feb 13, 2005)

Well it's been a long time since I have been here, and threads like this are why. You said you were short of money and these guys are talking about their $50,000 one ton trucks. If you are a commercial beek, and short on money, buy a real truck. You can get a good, low mile International 2 ton truck for way less money than a one ton. The problem with used f450's and the like is that the people who buy them run them into the ground. Most used ones are flat out junk, and they cost a fortune. On the other hand a low mile Int. or Freightliner can be had for around $10K. (100,000 miles is nothing for one of these trucks, they will go 500K with no problems) Just buy one with a box on it, take the box off and use it for storage, slap a flat bed on it, and you have a real truck that will last you a long, long time. Plus, you will not be under-trucked. (BTW, the DT-466 is the only engine to get in an Int.) 
If you are going to be commercial, do it right the first time.


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

John Lockhart said:


> You said you were short of money and these guys are talking about their $50,000 one ton trucks.


Is an F-550 a one-ton, John?


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## John Lockhart (Feb 13, 2005)

HarryVanderpool said:


> Is an F-550 a one-ton, John?


Good grief!!!!This is why I do not come here often. Yes I know that an F550 is a ton-and-a-half truck, but that is not my point. The guy is short on money. Good used F550's that are not beat to death are very hard to find, and if you do find one they cost a fortune. (not to mention the problem 6.0 and 6.4l engines) But, if you step up to an F650 or F750, you can buy one for a very low cost, and you will have a truck that will last a long, long time. I was really trying to help the guy out, not prove I am some kind of internet expert.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Yes so John you are correct. In all fairness he could go out and buy a 54K 10 wheeler Ford L9000 with a 27 foot bed on it for probably 6K and it would last him a very long time with the Big Cam Cummins in it. In fact I know of one right now he could go buy from a beekeeper in Mi. However he is also asking whether he should get a 4*4 truck. He maybe dealing with yards that are fairly muddy year round if he is thinking 4*4.


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## Ben Little (Apr 9, 2012)

I am just getting into migratory Beekeeping and I would prefer to get something under $10 K that I can use for a while , I have too many other business expenses right now and I would rather do it right and get a newer truck , but I just bought a brand new one last year for moving equipment and servicing yards , but it is a half ton 4x4 and I can't put a flat deck on it. 
So it is either find someone willing to travel throughout the night to bee yards with *their *truck or get my own.
That is what my options are. I really hate borrowing or renting , so I would rather have my own.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

On the budget would be an older F450 or F350 already in a flat bed configuration. You need to consider how much the hives weigh prior to deciding the length of bed and actual weight capacity of the rearend. On a 14 foot configuration you can fit 120 double deep colonies triple high. With the approx weight of 100lbs per double deep colony you are looking at a 12,000 lbs payload on the back end without considering tongue weight of trailer for your Kubota.
I have an 97 F450 with a 10 foot bed on it. It has been working just fine as a bee truck and I can haul 72 colonies on it as double deeps which slightly overweights the truck. However I have and can safely run it in this configuration so long as I keep my speeds low at say 40MPH and thats pulling a trailer with my 7200 lbs skidsteer behind it. My F450 is NOT 4*4 and I have been off road lots with it with zero issues. even in the southern red clay and sand they have there when its wet out. I do however have truelock posi rear end in it. I have had it stuck a few times and my skidsteer has pulled it out fine.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Hey, we are all trying to help the guy out. Ben asked about a flat deck truck in a 14 to 16' configuration able to pull a trailer with his Kubota. I suggested what I felt was an ideal size. Finding a good truck he can afford is pretty much up to him at this point. Used truck shopping, regardless of the size can be a real mine field. I got what I thought was a pretty good deal on a 2005 International 4300 with 200,000 miles and the much vaunted DT-466 engine from a leading IH dealer in Colorado 3 years ago. It went back into the shop 3 different times and cost me over $6,500 in repair bills in just the first 3,000 miles I drove it and that dosent even count the air conditioning unit which only worked for about a month after delivery. They agreed to reimburse me $500 and said, "sorry, no guarantees with a used truck". Truth is, they are right. Caveat emptor.


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## G B (Nov 6, 2009)

How many miles are you guys running the 550-5500 size trucks before you trade them in. I would think you larger guys would have some sort of regular by miles or years method to determine when you replace the truck.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

G B said:


> How many miles are you guys running the 550-5500 size trucks before you trade them in. I would think you larger guys would have some sort of regular by miles or years method to determine when you replace the truck.


Not me so much, around 10 to 12,000 a year is about all that we put on them. We dont make repeated long trips with them. I have an 02 F-450 with around 120,000 that has been a real stalwart in our operation which I bought used in 04 with around 15,000 miles on it. The 2011 Dodge has just shy of 30,000 miles in two full seasons. Our "big truck" the IH only gets about 5K a year put on it. I originally thought I would use it in Texas but I'm afraid to put it on the road again after all the problems we had with it in the first year. It stays in SD for honey hauling, putting out and picking up bees and in all fairness has run great the past two years.


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## John Lockhart (Feb 13, 2005)

I'm a long way from a big outfit, but I guess I am somewhat large for this forum. I do not run one ton type trucks at all. We have four 2500 HD pickups with flat beds on them that we use for checking yards and hauling a few boxes with. We buy them used and run them till they drop. Our International 24 foot single truck (30,000 gvw) has around 300,000 miles on it, and we will run it forever. Our Freightliner FL106 tandom truck(52,000 lb gvw) has around 500K miles with a Detroit engine with a 1mil. mile warranty. We buy all of our trucks used, and run them 'till they die. I have got some crazy cheap trucks that way. I just cannot see spending the kind of money a new truck costs and watch it loose half of that the first year you own it.
As for miles, we will put around 15K miles on the Int. and around 40K miles a year on the Freightliner. The big miles go on the 53 foot drop-deck semi truck. We put 13,000 miles on it in the last three weeks hauling bees down to our Texas operation. Now its time for an oil change and service on the Kenworth W900 before we start in again.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

....and for our operation the "big miles" go on the hired trucks. I am not calling our operation big either but we just hauled 6 loads of bees from SD to our Texas operation this past week and I unloaded them all and scattered them with my Ram 5500. Then took my 1/2 ton Tundra back home with my wife, grinning as I drove by the scales on the way home. The 450 and the IH did the work up north. The Ram is still parked in Texas and most likely wont come back north till May. Leave the truckin to the truckers and the beekeepin to the beekeepers. Thats my story and I'm stickin to it.


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## Ben Little (Apr 9, 2012)

I have found some 1 tons around my area, but they have the 6.5L Turbo Diesel in them and I am told they have a habit of blowing the cranks out of them.
Is this a true statement ?

There is 1 about 20 minutes from me for 6200 bucks that has a tilt deck on it right now. Plus I have found another one on Kijiji a little farther away > here is the link>>>http://annapolis.kijiji.ca/c-cars-v...00-Heavy-Duty-Pickup-Truck-W0QQAdIdZ542382374

It has the 6.5L turbo as well.

I am a gas Engine guy , not diesel, so I won't even begin to act like I know what is good and isn't 

Thanks
Ben


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Jim wrote:

Leave the truckin to the truckers 

Duh, where have I heard that before?

Maybe some of you guys need to spend a little time on a creaper looking up. A gentleman at the grocery store parking lot was bragging about how his power joke had 300 hp. I said that's nice, but do you have 300 hp of radiator, drive shaft and rear end? Look at the axles and drive line on the trucks(with air brakes?) that Jim Lyon and John Lockhart speak of. Yes, there are repair bills untill the bugs are worked out of a used ruck, but the big truck has a much better chance of a return on that investment than a pickup. 

Crazy Roland


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## John Lockhart (Feb 13, 2005)

First of all, those high hp pick-up truck numbers come from high rpm engines. My Freightliner has 325 hp, but that is at 1500 rpm. (that is with a 8.5liter 4 cyl. engine)
As for leaving the trucking to the truckers, I would love to. BUT, we were forced to buy one. No one, and I mean no one, would haul our bees from Texas to Colorado. This spring it took us 4 weeks to get 3 loads hauled up for us! And they charged us up the u-know-what to do it. One guy charged $4 per loaded mile, PLUS $3 a mile to dead-head to Kansas where he could pick up another load. And he was the only guy who would come. It cost us over $4500.00 to haul one load 800 miles. And to boot, those three loads missed most of the honey flow. We paid $40K for the new semi, and we could have paid for it with the honey we lost waiting for trucks. 
We set up a separate bank account for the semi, and we put $3 per loaded mile in it when we haul our bees. (we dead-head back empty) If you figure fuel and tires and service, it costs us around 1.35 per mile to run it. We can make a round trip for around $1k. worth of fuel. The extra money in the account will stay there for unforeseen repairs, and if none come up, we can pay for the truck in one year. I never wanted to be a trucker, but you do what you have to do.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Ben, if your pulling that tractor and wanting to haul bees, the heavier truck is the most practical. 
I bought a 2005, 4x4, F550 and extended the chassi to fit a (built myself) 16' flat deck. $18000 three years ago. 
You need 4x4, I don't know many 4x4 highway truck. You probably want a multi purpose truck as you probably want to use the truck to tour yards throughout the year. A F550 will do your work and provide a nicer ride between the yards. Not easy on fuel but you can't have that both ways. 
A tone truck will pull that tractor but you need heavier suspension to haul the bees. No way around it.
A highway truck is a terrible idea for what your looking for. If Ben were hauling 1200 miles, then it would be an option


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

I guess one thing you should figure out is what you tow weight will be, your hitch weight, your deck weight and from that you can figure how many hives you can load.


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## Z-B (Jun 4, 2013)

Ben, Your on the right track with what you initially posted. get a one ton dully at least. look at the weight of the stuff your going to haul and what you think your hives will weigh. Then only load what you can legally haul. its not your awesome driving skills or how *****in your diesel fuel mapping super bully dog chipped tow monger is? Its about can you safely stop your valuables and not kill someones family. (no one gets better brakes when they make their trucks faster)

I think 4x4 is important and wouldn't be afraid to buy the big block gas engines post 2000 model year. diesel is nice until it brakes. I can replace two gas engines for the price of one diesel. Heck I have put in low mile used gas engines in rigs for the price of a new turbo and pedestal. Your budget is where you will learn what you can get. don't buy more truck than you can afford. And don't buy more truck than a Kubota tractor can pull out of the mud in the dark.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

John Lockhart said:


> As for leaving the trucking to the truckers, I would love to. BUT, we were forced to buy one. No one, and I mean no one, would haul our bees from Texas to Colorado.


 I agree. I dont want to buy a big truck either but these truckers leave you hanging on a tight schedule. I personally was delayed moving my bees back due to this and I know another couple beeks that could hardly find trucks and were delayed several weeks due to this problem. So consequently we too are looking to buy a semi in the future and just use the new 5500 as yard truck.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Unless you buy a 10 wheeler and use it for yard work your semi will be sitting still most of the time and you will find that you can't afford that. I have seen it a cpl times. One long standing 2500 hive beekeeper from west of Oswego who you might know found it uneconomical.

I do know some beekeepers who run 1,000 colonies and more who run 10 wheelers to move bees when they need to, to take off honey and do all the yd work necessary. One guy I know trucks all of his own hives south. The other guy trucks his own and hires a semi too.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Mark you are correct. I would hate to have it registered and insured all year to sit in the yard and I am too busy to haul stuff for other folks. 27 foot 10 wheeler would not be a bad option. I would want a 25 ft eager beaver trailer to go with it though so I could still haul same as a semi. Trailer could sit for extended times with no worries. 

The other thought is to rent a tractor and trailer from Ryder for the week I need to haul my bees. Rent is aweful expensive but cheaper than missing schedules!


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Our friend from Sauquoit hardly leaves home w/ his 10 wheeler and w/out his trailer. Unless you have another, smaller, trailer to haul your skidsteer loader around on you will find yourself using the trailer as much as the truck.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

I do have a 20 ft 6ton low deck pintle hitch trailer I have been using. Im not convinced that 10 wheeler will be great off road, but I could see using it in some of my yards especially in Ga where I have more room getting in and out.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

There is no ideal all purpose vehicle.


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## scokat (Apr 19, 2011)

:scratch: forgot what i was going to type, so...what mark said.


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## G B (Nov 6, 2009)

sqkcrk said:


> There is no ideal all purpose vehicle.


I agree with mark whole heartedly


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## Ben Little (Apr 9, 2012)

So... I should NOT look for a 1 ton ? This is a little confusing now. 

If I were to go look for a truck 4x4 , what is slightly bigger than the 1 ton that will go into a field without smashing everything in it's path .

International truck ? what model types would be good, even a picture sample would be good.
Chev/GMC truck ? model ? " "
Dodge ? " "

I really would prefer to stay away from air breaks , I don't have air brake cert .


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

How many hives do you run? How much work can you do by hand? Do you need a skidsteer loader?

My best truck over the first 15 years of my beekeeping was my Ford Pickup. I ran over 200 colonies w/ that truck. It had a box bed, not a flat bed. I did everything I needed to w/ it and it went everywhere even though it was not 4 wheel drive.

But then I got 200 more hives and started doing pollination so I got a Dodge dual wheeled flatbed truck. D-300 maybe, I forget.

From there I have had a cpl more flatbed/1 ton trucks until I bought my Bobcat skidsteer loader. When I bought an F-450 w/ 16,000lb GVWR and a trailer for the Bobcat. Now running 500 plus hives.

So, it really depends on what you want to do w/ it, how much you are going to do w/ it and how much you can afford.

Tell us what you are doing and where you are going and we might be able to see what you need.


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## Ben Little (Apr 9, 2012)

What about this ?

http://novascotia.kijiji.ca/c-cars-...-W5500-Box-Truck-for-3-800-W0QQAdIdZ484067858

Thanks

Ben

Specs are here>> http://www.ehow.com/list_7507607_gmc-w5500-specifications.html


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

That's perfect Ben, I know beekeepers who regularly use that type of truck. But it lack the 4x4,
It's totally your decision but buying a heavier truck like that will be worth your while. One trip instead if two. But tone 4x4 trucks are easier to find


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## Ben Little (Apr 9, 2012)

I want to be able to move 250 Hives for pollination. Next spring I will have (hopefully) 130+ to move into blueberries. I would like to take 8 pallets of DD at a time Minimum
I have a Kubota L3800 I want to tow behind this truck. Tractor with loader and forks weight is around 3400 LBs


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

That truck is lighter than my skid steer.
You hitch weight will likely be minimal, 1000 lbs or so ,? So find you deck weight, 500-1000 lbs, ? And subtract that with your pay load. That weight is the number of hives you can legally haul. 
8 pallets, at what 400,500lbs ,? You looking at needing to load 3200-4000 worth of hive. Your looking at a total of around 6000 lbs plus. Perfect for a F 550 or 5500 of some type


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Ben I think the truck you linked would be an excellent choice for your budget, assuming it is in decent mechanical condition. Probably a bit underpowered and you will have to be careful where you drive it but the capacity is just what you want....and no payments to make. Best of luck.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

What do you need 4x4 anyway? You live on rock ,


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Plan B , you have a tractor to pull you out!


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## Ben Little (Apr 9, 2012)

http://newbrunswick.kijiji.ca/c-car...y-trucks-2004-GMC-Top-kick-W0QQAdIdZ543884727

I also found this , I can take the box off and use it for storage LOL.. I know still not 4x4


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Ya totally, that looks awesome. 
Truck plus storage, bonus. Probably has milage on it but looks in great shape. You know, 4x4 are worth a lot, how often did you use one in the last 2 years?

A truck like that will make you look as if your the deal. Like many wise men say, look the part you act .

Hmmm, if that were closer, I think I'd take a look at it for myself ...


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## Chip Euliss (Sep 2, 2010)

I've been silent but I'll play. I started with an old 89 4x4 F250 diesel with a standard box on the back. When I had more hives than I could support where I lived, I took the bed off and put an 8 foot flatbed on that made it easier to haul the limited number of hives I owned to outyards. The old truck had single rear wheels and it was tippy so I added aftermarket dual rear wheels. Not perfect or efficient but it worked. When the old truck died, I bought a 2004 F350 and put an 8 x 12 foot bed on it. That truck worked perfect for my needs and held 8 stacks of 4-way pallets; I hauled 16 pallets of doubles but later 24 pallets of singles. She worked great for what I wanted because I use the truck for personal use as well as for keeping bees. I did add air bags to increase payload when I was hauling honey. That truck served me well and I just replaced it with a new F450 that will also get the same bed. I now have about 800 hives, use commercial semis to haul hives from here to CA and back, and only need to haul bees and honey supers within a 30 mile radius of home. I also use the truck for hunting trips and to pull a boat to Louisiana to fish so my needs are much different than others who have posted on this thread. Any of the trucks I mentioned would haul more than your 8 pallet minimum so it comes down to getting a vehicle that meets your needs, including what you have to spend. I've had good luck with diesels and have owned one since 1989. They do cost more, the fuel costs more (even though it is cheaper to make) but diesel engines tend to last longer so you have a better chance of buying a truck that fits your budget and will serve you longer. They are more expensive to repair so buying from a known entity or even getting a mechanic to check it over before you buy would be a good idea. Good luck Ben. There's a truck out there for you--you just need to find it!!


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

sqkcrk said:


> There is no ideal all purpose vehicle.


Sure there is............. it's the one the OTHER guys have!


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Or the one I left at home.


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## Ben Little (Apr 9, 2012)

Ian said:


> Ya totally, that looks awesome.
> Truck plus storage, bonus. Probably has milage on it but looks in great shape. You know, 4x4 are worth a lot, how often did you use one in the last 2 years?
> 
> A truck like that will make you look as if your the deal. Like many wise men say, look the part you act .
> ...


I use my 4x4 often when I go check bees and feed, but I can always move the bees to a better spot to load them. 4x4 is actually hard to find under $10K.

I have given thought to renting or hiring someone , it is still an option for me. It does take a lot of money away from the pollination fees but I might have to do it for a year and then get a truck.
I am going to decide very soon.


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## John Lockhart (Feb 13, 2005)

Ben, the top-kick you showed us would be perfect. My nephew has one so I know a bit about them. They haul 72 hives at a time on 4-way pallets, plus pull a forklift. (old swinger 100, or Hummerbee turbo, or swinger 1k depending on who is running what at the time) That is a truck you can run a long time. The downside to them is (1) it is the roughest riding truck I have ever driven (empty) (2) gets poor fuel mileage. (3) one of the most helpless truck I have seen in the mud. There is really no free lunch, but that is a good price for that truck assuming it is in good shape.


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## borada bee doc (Feb 6, 2010)

Ben, That little Chevy badged Isuzu will have the lowest bed height. Engine work is easy with the tip-forward cab. Ride is rougher as you are sitting over the front axle. Big question is how high can you lift a pallet with your Kubota? This may be a limiting factor in your choice of trucks. Also, a tractor will be slow loading. You may find yourself upgrading to a used Swinger etc. before you need a larger truck. As I debated getting a larger truck, a friend reminded me of the 90% rule. What will you be needing 90% of the time? For me the 12' deck f450 is fine if I use a second truck for the 10%.


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## borada bee doc (Feb 6, 2010)

Ben Little said:


> I have found some 1 tons around my area, but they have the 6.5L Turbo Diesel in them and I am told they have a habit of blowing the cranks out of them.
> Is this a true statement ?
> 
> Ben, I asked a retired diesel mechanic friend who is also a 2,000 hive plus migratory guy about the 6.5L. He says they are good engines except for some electronic sensor overheating problems. There are alot of them out there and resale is lower because of talk about underbuilt block problems.


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## Ben Little (Apr 9, 2012)

The kubota will reach 94 inches / 7.8 feet to hinge pin.


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## borada bee doc (Feb 6, 2010)

That's good. Deck height should not be an issue if you are only stacking 2 pallets.


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## Ben Little (Apr 9, 2012)

My only concern with the height was if I put on a medium honey super when sending them out in blueberries , Should be fine though. I will see if I can figure out the deck height of the truck before buying, so I know if I can reach it.

And yes only double stacking.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

I'm not migratory or doing pollination nor do I have a need for a bigger truck at this time but I sure am enjoying this conversation. I've learned a tonne! 
Ben- congrats on the way you do your homework, go to those who have been/are there. You have got most of them here now.

Thanks.


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## Ben Little (Apr 9, 2012)

Well someone bought the Topkick before I could call them about it 

I will keep on looking


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Ben:

I own one of those GMC 5500. Really like it. It has an Isuzu engine which are very reliable and durable. I like the cabover, you can turn on a dime. Like Jim said, a little under powered but they are good on fuel. As far as 4x4, without one it will just make you a better driver or more selective as to where you put your bees.

Jean-Marc


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## G B (Nov 6, 2009)

John, I have seen several beeks around us use a 10 wheeler to spread the hives out in the almonds. Do you or any of the other guys here have any experience using a 10 wheeler in muddy conditions ? I had a CDl for many years and I always avoided mudd like the plague. You would have to have the tandems locked in and it would seem to be a real problem to make turns etc in orchards. We use 550 and5500 trucks to spread the bees out. Thanks George B






John Lockhart said:


> Ben, the top-kick you showed us would be perfect. My nephew has one so I know a bit about them. They haul 72 hives at a time on 4-way pallets, plus pull a forklift. (old swinger 100, or Hummerbee turbo, or swinger 1k depending on who is running what at the time) That is a truck you can run a long time. The downside to them is (1) it is the roughest riding truck I have ever driven (empty) (2) gets poor fuel mileage. (3) one of the most helpless truck I have seen in the mud. There is really no free lunch, but that is a good price for that truck assuming it is in good shape.


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## John Lockhart (Feb 13, 2005)

My 10 wheeler is not good in the mud. When you "lock" the rear end in, it only spins one wheel on each axle. (the right one on one, and the left one on the other). I know a big beek, (25k hives) who has 10 wheelers with what they call quad lock. When he locks his in, all four wheels spin, and it is tons better. My best mud truck is my old International 4700. It has a limited slip rear end and is the best truck I have ever had in slick stuff. I still manage to get it stuck, but it's better than most.
And I have a broker set my bees in the almonds. With everything else we do, I just do not have the time. (and I'm getting old!)


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Yes, you get what you pay for. As stated above, the power divider provides one set on each axle, usually crossed. For more money, Mack, and Rockwell axles( on some Internationals and KW's, etc)can also be locked left to right. The Internationals need it more than the Macks. If you get one of those stuck you need to look for a cat.

Crazy Roland


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## Jacobee (Dec 27, 2011)

we started off with a 1 ton gas ford, bad idea not enough payload, it is mostly used to feed and move supers, got an older international 4700 for 11500 otd welded some rails on and good to go, so much nicer, same gas mileage. I also have been looking at 4x4's to buy, but like posted by other used = junk, new = $60,000. I think we will buy another 24 footer. buy the way are the same trucks available here also available there? can you run the hives in from road or is it too far, I agree with getting hummer or swinger more important and rent the bigger truck for when needed, we did it got us thru


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## Jacobee (Dec 27, 2011)

by the way , we have had that international up some steep dirt roads, I was amazed, of course no forklift behind it and ground dry. good tires help.


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## Sadler91 (Nov 6, 2011)

If you get a bigger truck such as a International or Freightliner, put a locker in the rear. Helps a ton!


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