# Carniolan Queens



## mark williams (Jan 19, 2003)

Hello:I was woundering if anyone use Carniolan Bee's,(Know some of you do)anyway I have been using Cordovan Italians for the last several years,Don't have any problem with them,But I'm going to have to start raising my own Queens now with as many hives as I've got& was thinking about ordering Smart Carniolan Breeder Queens from Glenn's out of Ca.(guess I'm just looking for a super bee hehe).So what are your thought's on the subject.Thank's >>>>Mark


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## Rob Mountain (Dec 8, 2003)

I have been using Carniolan queens from Tom Glenn for the past year, and even when I ran a large queen operation in CA, and have had tremendous success. Their service is great; you will probably speak to Suki, Toms wife, very pleasant, and knowledgeable. 

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If a job is worth doing - Then do it well


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

The carni's I've had have done well.


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## Flewster (Nov 3, 2003)

I LOVE my carni's

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You have to stop and smell the roses......but please watch out for my bees.


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

Last year I decided to go all NWC, and requeened everything last fall. It WAS my plan to do it again this year if they did well. They did very well, and if I was still going to requeen every year I wouldn't hesitate to use them again. At this time I am not planning on requeening, if I need a queen, I will let them make one.


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## danno1800 (Mar 13, 2004)

I have had better results with NWCarniolans than any other bee I've tried. Good Luck!


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## cochran500 (May 20, 2003)

Mark
I am trying a few myself, but it will be spring before I can say anything good or bad. I have noticed though, that hardly anyone from the deep south posts much about using the NWC. I hope that it is not a sign. lol. Lots of folks from above the Mason-Dixon line love them, so I read.

Marty


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## mark williams (Jan 19, 2003)

Yep:Should have done my homework before I posted.I've also read that they did not do as well in the heat.that my be why you don't see that many of them here in the deep south,but I thank you all for you post back to me.>>>>Mark


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## bjerm2 (Jun 9, 2004)

Been using them for years. Great bees and hard workers. Start working at 45-50 degrees. I like mine but then again I live in the northern NY about 35 miles above Syracuse. My temps go down to -25 and lots of snow. 
Dan


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

I tried three NWC this summer in my splits and they did fine in the Virginia heat and humidity. All built up very well and appear healthy. 

The conventional view seems to suggest that NWC are better in colder climates. I've wondered that maybe they may be very well suited for my conditions. Quite often our winters end abruptly followed by a rapid transition to summer (very short spring). Seems to me that a bee that can build up quickly would have the best chance at maximizing honey productions in such an environment. I guess I'll have to wait until next spring to see if this theory has any merit.


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## Mitch (Jul 7, 2003)

The best i ever did on honey was with carnies.Now i plan on requeening all my hives in the spring.Had what was called Northen Italians this year they did not do near as well.I plan on plenty of carnies.Some of the guys around here like the buckfast.Any coments on buckfast?

Thanks Bob


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

I requeened several hives with NWC this spring. The verdict is still out. A couple of splits failed. I'm not sure why. One is fairly weak. Two are doing well. The weak one still has the marked queen. The others may have superceded. They don't appear to work as hard in this climate as my Italians. Next year will be a better test.


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## Hook (Jun 2, 2002)

Brother Adam writes about the carniolian, as the key to unlocking other bee races charactoristics. Personally, being from the north, I like the fast buildup. They won't draw comb like an italian though, and like to store honey near the brood nest. But the benifits of this race, mixed with Italian, and SMR, are proving to me to be a great bee. I had a good harvest this year, all from my mongrol queens! 

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Dale Richards
Dal-Col Apiaries
Drums, PA


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## MIKI (Aug 15, 2003)

I got Carns and Elgons the Carns outdo the Elgons hands down. 

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Procrastination is the assination of inspiration.

Gary


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## mark williams (Jan 19, 2003)

Miki: What is a Elgons? Thats a new one on me.>>>>Mark


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## Pugs (Jul 15, 2004)

I'm not MIKI but I'll answer. Elgons are a strain of Buckfasts with Monticola bees added. Check out these links:
http://www.fundp.ac.be/~jvandyck/homage/artcl/EOABJ91en.html http://www.beesource.com/pov/osterlund/monticola.htm 

Pugs


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## Beemaninsa (Jun 9, 2004)

I hate to go against the grain here but I am in the deep south and have had better luck with Italians. I have only tried carnis twice, but my hive population and honey production was better with italians. One time I had one yard with 1/2 carnis and 1/2 italians (cordovan). The carnis drew down quickly during summer dearth. I had a hard time with robbing and would guess the carni trait of quick drawn down and buildup was at least partially to blame. I think a few AHB have been reported in mobile county? Since carnis supercede more often, it is something you may want to consider if you are in the area.


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## Branman (Aug 20, 2003)

I have *VERY* limited experience...only have two carniolan queens. But I agree with beemaninsa...one of my shut down very early...I'm not sure they're quite right for the heat. But take that with a grain of salt...2 hives isn't really statistically significant


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

Right now I have six hives two Italians three Carniolan and one mutt. I'll know better next year how the Carniolan handle the heat and humidity. Hopeful, but balanced.


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## louis1st (Oct 17, 2004)

i would like to know if you think carnolian bees are better than elgon bees regarding the quantity of honey gathered, but what about the resistance to varroa and related diseases?

elgon bees have been bred so they are superior regarding varroa resistance,without treatment...
it would be interesting to know what you think! 
do you use any varroa treatments at all?

where can I get some elgon bees from?


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## Pugs (Jul 15, 2004)

You list your location as Chester, is that in England? I think the Elgon bees are in Sweden. Check out this link:
http://www.beesource.com/pov/osterlund/index.htm 

To the best of my knowledge, Elgon bees are not available in the US. I'm not sure about England.

Pugs


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## dickm (May 19, 2002)

I have 18 hives of them and I love 'em! They fly in the 40s and were working seriously yesterday. (In Ct). Had high queen failures but think that was a function of the breeders. They may rob a little easier but I've not had them side by side with others. The best trait hasn't been mentioned. Last year I fed them in the fall until they each had 2 medium supers for stores. (Over 1 deep) In the spring I was able to go back and take off 1 super from each hive. People tell me I'd be frightened if I looked at the size of the cluster that winters over. I don't want to look.

dickm


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## BerkeyDavid (Jan 29, 2004)

Hi all

I requeened a queenless hive very late this year, Sept. 26th, with a Carniolan. Today I was checking my hives (45 degrees, sunny but windy) and at first I thought I had a wild bee trying to get into my hive, then I saw a few more. Finally figured out they were the Carnis! One reason to requeen with them is it is easy to see the new bees! Color coded! Made me very happy, we will see if they make it.

david


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## Rob Mountain (Dec 8, 2003)

Hey David

One thing that you will notice about Carnis is that they are able to survive the winter with a very small cluster but do make sure that they have sufficient honey supplies.

I hope that you have great success with your Carnis. Keep us updated. 


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If a job is worth doing - Then do it well


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## BerkeyDavid (Jan 29, 2004)

Thanks Rob

I have about 100 pounds of honey on, 4 medium supers. Top two supers are full wall to wall.

But the hive's numbers had really dwindled by the time I had realized it was queenless. So glad to she she starting laying right away! Sure was neat to see those black bees coming out, especially as chilly as it was today...

Cheers!

david


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## Mitch (Jul 7, 2003)

Sounds great Dave.I was thinking of you new queen but forgot to ask if you could see the differance yet.I have noticed The differance in my clusters going into winter. now that i have no pure carnies they are bigger.And the italians we got this year a a bit bigger yet.

Bob


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

I have to fight off the impulse to combine those smaller clusters.


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## BerkeyDavid (Jan 29, 2004)

Hi Mitch and Bill
Bill did you see the new Bee Culture? Jim Tew says the same thing, makes a good point about not combining, trying to preserve, because of the cost of packages and the need to have colonies ready to go in the Spring. Is that where you are coming from? In other words, requeen the smaller hives in the fall and feed rather than combine? Or are you saying that the Carnis have small clusters?

david

[This message has been edited by BerkeyDavid (edited November 15, 2004).]


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## Mitch (Jul 7, 2003)

The carnies are know for and do have smaller clusters.Some people on this site say it scares them that the clusters are so small.This spring when i did some splits they were pure carnies i used for the splits.There was no doubt you were only going to make one split early in the spring.But the built up good for the wet weather we had.Now i have no pure carnies left only mixed carnies.But you can still tell the ones that have alot of carnie in them they are smaller now than say 2 months ago.


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

>Bill did you see the new Bee Culture? 

I just got it and haven't had time to read it cover to cover yet.

>Jim Tew says the same thing, makes a good point about not combining, trying to preserve, because of the cost of packages and the need to have colonies ready to go in the Spring. Is that where you are coming from? 

It's hard to take your losses in the fall rather than in the winter when you know that a hive MIGHT make it. A NWC colony that I had last year overwintered, suprizingly to me, with just a baseball sized clump of bees. This year it gave me a couple of supers of honey and is now a three medium hive. That is one colony and two supers of honey that I would not have had if I had combined the previous fall.

>In other words, requeen the smaller hives in the fall and feed rather than combine? Or are you saying that the Carnis have small clusters?

I am not advocating that you buy a queen for a small lot of bees that may or may not make it. Traditional thinking is to save that money for a sure thing in the spring making splits. But if you are in a situation like me, having more hives and the prospects of more swarms than I really need in the spring, why not experiment? So far this sideline in beekeeping is still a hobby and a learning exercise for me.

Having a small colony in March is more profitable than a split in May. Knowing that they eat less, get a faster head start, and will actully produce that year may make the investment (gamble) worth it.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

I had dinner with Jim Tew on Friday night. He had given a talk on " going into fall with a small cluster". This at the Pa. fall meeting. 


Two things he pointed out about small clusters. One, its costly to combine in the fall. You also may be compounding problems by doing such. Two, feeding usually delays the period of time that the cluster dies. Still dies, just later in the winter.

He really felt that combining and/or with feeding was a waste. Problems should of been dealt with alot sooner. And, why perpetuate a weak queen or hive at this time of the year.

It was interesting on how many ways he tried to feed bees in nucs and keep them alive. His best results was with cake icing. Kept them alive longer, but they still died. Bottom line was for nothern states, at this time of the year....your wasting money trying to save weak or "light" hives. I agree.


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## Mitch (Jul 7, 2003)

I have not had time to read the new BC yet but will. 

I agree that it is not worth feeding or combineing weak hive late in the year.At least here in northen Ohio.Been there done that.i read on this site all the people who were feeding in the fall,whitch may be good and well early in the fall but later is not going to do anything but coast you money and alot of time for nuthing.

I did combine 2 sets of hive late this year tho but it was for queenless.Only one of the 2 made it but doing great.Problems late in the year are tuff no matter what it is.

I wonder if you do live in the south and you are able to get a week hive thu winter is it worth it or are there just more problems the next season? But then a requeen may solve the problem?

 Bob


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