# Just Curious



## Litsinger (Jun 14, 2018)

How many TF beeks still frequent the forum?


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Litsinger said:


> How many TF beeks still frequent the forum?


Not many, I am afraid.
Technically, even I am not TF.

But as already been discussed - it should be clear by now; the proper approach should not be binary but rather adaptive to the situation on hand.

With every situation on hand properly understood first - which is not the case; far from it.
The very idea of *localization *eludes many (most?) people OR it is not even applicable if you are a migratory commercial operator.

If the basic localization does not exist, any talks of the TF are not even relevant.
One cannot just simply import the TF stock and call it done - does not work too well.
One cannot just catch a "feral" swarm and call it done - vast majority of the swarms are not even feral.

I feel it is now time for the next iteration to openly discuss this and not keep pretending as if the binary TF/TX context properly reflects the real picture.

The binary TF/TX only addresses *the very ends* of the spectrum of possibilities and the appropriate management approaches. Meanwhile many (if not most) people are somewhere in between the two.


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## Litsinger (Jun 14, 2018)

GregB said:


> ... the proper approach should not be binary but rather adaptive to the situation on hand.


No argument here- just curious how many TF folks are still engaging with the forum.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Litsinger said:


> No argument here- just curious how many TF folks are still engaging with the forum.


Not many, as we see.
Which is also a fair reflection the reality - most people who are actively using social media (this forum is also social media) are not practicing TF.
Entire possible - there exists a whole layer of TF folks in some remote places who don't participate in the social media for any reason (don't care/don't know/don't post/don't have the Internet).


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## James Lee (Apr 29, 2020)

Im here.

FWIW i think the aspect of "coming out" TF comes with so much embattlement and vitriol, having fruitful and public discourse on the practice itself provokes significant apprehension. 

That said TF newbies are going to crop up, but lets face it, the classical management free TF definition isn't cutting it anymore, if you broaden the construct as to what this actually means to be TF there are more people on the spectrum than not.

By the main FB groups definition any management practice with intent to mitigate mite infestation in any capacity is considered treatment. That would include intentional brood breaking all the way to intentional requeening. Taking it to the extreme, resistance breeding or selection for bees that manage mites could be considered a treatment. 

I digress...id say the old hats have little desire for the entanglements and confusion. In my correspondence with many of these folks the refrain has been the same...why bother when you aren't being taken seriously?


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## William Bagwell (Sep 4, 2019)

GregB said:


> Technically, even I am not TF.


Nor am I. Still chemical free! Do I get to beat my chest like a gorilla now?


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

James Lee said:


> That said TF newbies are going to crop up, but lets face it, *the classical management free TF definition isn't cutting it anymore,* if you broaden the construct as to what this actually means to be TF there are more people on the spectrum than not.


The "just don't treat" mantra does not work for too many folks (and then causes too much bad PR).

However, the RT (reduced treatment) or AT (adaptive treatment) should work for a bunch.
But this takes adaptation and learning.
This is not a willy-nilly, but a systemic, targeted approach.

If I was cold TF today still - out of 28 colonies on hand, I should have predictably lost at least 50% by now (and about all of them a couple of months later).
But the RT approach is very agreeable to me.


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## William Bagwell (Sep 4, 2019)

GregB said:


> Entire possible - there exists a whole layer of TF folks in some remote places who don't participate in the social media for any reason (don't care/don't know/don't post/don't have the Internet).


Coworkers father near Copper Hill Tennessee fits this description.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

William Bagwell said:


> Coworkers father near Copper Hill Tennessee fits this description.


I totally believe it.
There are lots of folks who care less of our noise on this forum right here.
They just keep bees.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

William Bagwell said:


> Nor am I. Still chemical free! Do I get to beat my chest like a gorilla now?




Just say it like it is.
It is not good, not bad - just it is.

And it also makes all kinds of practical sense - you don't spend the time/resources/work on something you do not need.
And you also do important function in that you contribute into a better bee, while at it.
If you only can - you absolutely must do it.
Why shouldn't you?

Not everyone is blessed like you.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

James Lee said:


> why bother when you aren't being taken seriously?


Keep doing what you are doing and keep honestly reporting.
That counts.
No need to convert anyone.

What really counts is the documented and confirmed knowledge of a person A who lives in the place B and has been doing TF for C years consistently, sustainably, and with acceptable losses.

Once you put together A and B and C - this becomes a presentable case worth attention.
People will notice become interested then.
The high value of C should help


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## HaplozygousNut (Dec 30, 2015)

I do TF. I haven't used chemical treatments for our bees. I am in central North Carolina in the Piedmont. When I first started beekeeping with the bees I bought from a local beekeeper they would get very sick each summer dearth from Varroa, but eventually the bees built up resistance over about 4 years and became hardy not just with Varroa but with over-wintering and other things.


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## HaplozygousNut (Dec 30, 2015)

William Bagwell said:


> Nor am I. Still chemical free! Do I get to beat my chest like a gorilla now?


LOL


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## HaplozygousNut (Dec 30, 2015)

GregB said:


> Not many, I am afraid.
> Technically, even I am not TF.
> 
> But as already been discussed - it should be clear by now; the proper approach should not be binary but rather adaptive to the situation on hand.
> ...


Yes, localization I believe is necessary to beekeeping. Not only to be hardy for severe winters or pests, but for foraging, too. I have had commercial Italian bees foraging badly here in central North Carolina when my local bees out did them in foraging. I also had our local bees forage poorly when I moved them to the mountains this year when I saw local bees there in person foraging wonderfully with very much fanning of nectar. And ironically, the few hybrid commercial Italian bee colonies that survived long enough to go to the mountains outdid my local central North Carolina bees in foraging there in the mountains.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

HaplozygousNut said:


> And ironically, the few hybrid commercial Italian bee colonies that survived long enough to go to the mountains outdid my local central North Carolina bees in foraging there in the mountains.


Kinda of emphasizes the points of the commercial migratory guys for who it is important that the bees perform well to wherever they are going to migrate.

For them it is not about the home base.
For them it is about the targeted market.

For example, you want to bring packed and brooding hives into the orchards in February - this is NOT what we want up here in February (unless you migrate in February).


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

back to the Question
@Litsinger 
I and the 4 people I mentor all use some OA to get above the 50% loss in the area.
I do not know any non computer TF keepers, in my locale.

GG


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## William Bagwell (Sep 4, 2019)

GregB said:


> Not everyone is blessed like you.


Blessed to have a wife who supports this strange endeavor! Beekeeping has been in the back of my mind for decades, once it finally came to the front (very long story) she not only agreed to spending serious money on "stinging bugs in boxes" she fully supported me in purchasing a back up plan for treatment free before even having bees. Anticipating supply chain disruptions due to covid might just be a lucky guess, her enthusiastically riding with me that day was not. BTW MMK thermal has been off the market for well over two years.


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## William Bagwell (Sep 4, 2019)

HaplozygousNut said:


> I do TF. I haven't used chemical treatments for our bees. I am in central North Carolina in the Piedmont. When I first started beekeeping with the bees I bought from a local beekeeper they would get very sick each summer dearth from Varroa, but eventually the bees built up resistance over about 4 years and became hardy not just with Varroa but with over-wintering and other things.


Not isolated enough for that to work here. Three largish (20 plus hives) apiaries within 5 1/2 miles from me. Two I know for sure are not TF, third I would bet money is not. Plus several smaller ones and who knows how many I do not know about. For me it will be a balancing act of bringing in better genetics without destroying local adaptation. Odd that Georgia is one of the top states for producing bees yet none of the VSH breeder queen producers are here.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Based on what I see on social media there are areas in Britain, most notably Wales, where TF beekeeping is the norm. They do not seem to know why this is, they just don't treat and it works.

That's just what I read, haven't been there or seen it so can't vouch for it personally.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Just a thought, could be if you have bees that are "biters", and a long enough winter broodless period, maybe that would be enough to keep mite numbers at a survivable level.


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## NJBeeVet (Jan 3, 2019)

I've been lurking here. Third winter treatment fee, started bees 6 years ago. All top bar hives. Told myself if i could get 50% survival by year 3 i would stick with treatment free. So far confirmed 10 out of 10 colonies alive now so I'm happy! Still just early January so plenty of winter left, but from my experience mite dead outs usually occur November and December. Rarely had hives die out in January or February. I'd like to share more of my experiences in this journey but doesn't feel right sharing anything online unless I can be successful for at least another couple of years


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Oldtimer said:


> Just a thought, could be if you have bees that are "biters", and a long enough winter broodless period, maybe that would be enough to keep mite numbers at a survivable level.


This fits the #2 (below) behavior of the Bashkortostan black bees - when the brood is finished for the season, these bees just bite the mites off (while also surviving the viral load). Then they have a long brood-less season - 5-6 months in Bashkortostan.



> - at about 1:45 - Roman again talks about two distinct natural mite control mechanisms by the bees - 1) low mite counts maintained by the Grey Caucasian lineage thru the year and *2) high mite counts allowed by the Bashkortostan lineage where the mites just drop off when the winter temperatures drop (as if treated) without apparent damage to the bees.*


GregV's Alternative way to keep (have?) bees. | Page 103 | Beesource Beekeeping Forums


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

William Bagwell said:


> Nor am I. Still chemical free! Do I get to beat my chest like a gorilla now?


Are hairy as a gorilla? If no, then no.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

NJBeeVet said:


> I've been lurking here. Third winter treatment fee, started bees 6 years ago. All top bar hives. Told myself if i could get 50% survival by year 3 i would stick with treatment free. So far confirmed 10 out of 10 colonies alive now so I'm happy! Still just early January so plenty of winter left, but from my experience mite dead outs usually occur November and December. Rarely had hives die out in January or February. I'd like to share more of my experiences in this journey but doesn't feel right sharing anything online unless I can be successful for at least another couple of years


Notes on the journey are useful too. I post a lot just so I don't forget things. I get fuzzy really quickly on details, times and dates, even years. I can go back to my long thread and skim it if I recall that something happened, but don't remember why or when. I wouldn't mind reading about your TBHs and what works and what doesn't.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

Not treatment-free. I was for a couple of years, then had a big loss year. Just struggling to keep a couple hives alive right now and don't want to add varroa losses on top. Using OA now, and seeing zero to very few varroa in drone comb.

I don't think my big loss year was primarily due to varroa. Never saw large numbers of them, little to no deformed wings. The few times I did alcohol washes varroa was non-existent.


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## Meady Beekeeper (11 d ago)

Only have 3 years of beekeeping. Treated this year for the first time.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

Meady Beekeeper said:


> Only have 3 years of beekeeping. Treated this year for the first time.


What decided you? Did you see mites or bad wings? Or just decide to try something different? 

How was winter loss when untreated?


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## Meady Beekeeper (11 d ago)

AR1 said:


> What decided you? Did you see mites or bad wings? Or just decide to try something different?
> 
> How was winter loss when untreated?


Lost everything last winter. I don’t believe it was solely because of mites, but I decided I didnt want a complete loss this year. I’ve also realized I’m surrounded by very large commercial guys so going tf will be very tricky.


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

I still check in here but it's just not worth my time to post anything about TF in this group anymore. Balanced discussions don't happen here anymore.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

ruthiesbees said:


> I still check in here but it's just not worth my time to post anything about TF in this group anymore. *Balanced discussions don't happen here anymore.*


I don't know but I have been pushing hard for the balance.
See even my posts above - it is all about the balance.
It is getting to be pretty balanced.


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## Meady Beekeeper (11 d ago)

NJBeeVet said:


> I've been lurking here. Third winter treatment fee, started bees 6 years ago. All top bar hives. Told myself if i could get 50% survival by year 3 i would stick with treatment free. So far confirmed 10 out of 10 colonies alive now so I'm happy! Still just early January so plenty of winter left, but from my experience mite dead outs usually occur November and December. Rarely had hives die out in January or February. I'd like to share more of my experiences in this journey but doesn't feel right sharing anything online unless I can be successful for at least another couple of years


I’m pretty new to posting here. I would love to hear more about your top bar success.
im only in my third year as beekeeper and I have langs. i finally treated this year but I’m very interested in hearing others ideas regarding tf.


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## NJBeeVet (Jan 3, 2019)

Meady Beekeeper said:


> I’m pretty new to posting here. I would love to hear more about your top bar success.
> im only in my third year as beekeeper and I have langs. i finally treated this year but I’m very interested in hearing others ideas regarding tf.


I went with top bar hives because I fell for the more natural hype that was big on them online around that time. I've since considered horizontal Lang's would have probably been a better option but didn't want to change equipment. The first hive was a pretty 600$ copper roofed hive from beethinking.com, which went out of business. First year package was pretty typical story i guess, didn't treat or feed and they died out in December, no honey on at all so I'm sure it was a combo of mites and starvation. The other annoying part is because I didn't inspect them enough 1/3rd of the comb towards the back was wonky unusable. Built my second top bar from plans on my first using 1 inch cedar boards and started 2 more packages year 2. Think I treated with hopguard 2 at the time which was a sticky mess and killed alot of bees. 1/2 survive that winter. Built 2 more top bars with 2 inch Douglas fir the next year and added 2 inch foam board to the tops of the hives so these were some pretty decently insulated behemoths at this point. Had 4 going into the winter after another year of hopguard and oxalic acid vaporization, and only ended up with one hive making it through winter. Got Russian packages the next year, which were a bit feisty, and built more top bars, treated with oxalic acid in the fall and winter, and ended up with about 50 % loss. i never really got comfortable using the oxalic vaporizer in top bars because the whole time imagined burning down these hives as the pan touched the hot wax. I think the next year I tried formic pro for a few hives, both of which died out, likely because I picked the sickest hives to use it on. Somewhere around that point i decided i wanted to just try treatment free. I realized top bar hives are not easy to use conventional treatments on because of there design, and I wasn't getting much success with them using treatments already, of course that might have been better had i treated at more appropriate times and with other methods ( oxalic shop towel, thymol). In 2020 i decided to get Queens from different treatment free apiaries (mcfarlines, and one i can't remember), and got up to about 17 colonies at one point. That year i ended up dealing with a frustrating case of efb in a yard, nasty strain that killed hives in the spring and summer. I was giving away splits to friends which was really taking alot of my time and attention so finally had to decide to just focus on my own bees. My first couple of treatment free winters have had about 30 to 50 % survival, and thankfully this year efb didn't show up and the bees have done remarkably well despite the severe drought in summer. They've packed on honey and didn't need to be fed, and although I don't test for mites, i haven't seen any Colony have the telltale pms symptoms ive seen in the past (deformed wing, spotty brood, crashing populations). Ive had to deal with a drone laying queens, egg laying workers, and dealing with the frustrations of foundation less top bar combs over the years, i feel like having a lot of hives has helped me learn alot faster than if i just had one or two over the years. Losing alot of colonies has made me alot better at making splits and colony increase. I'd be happy with 50 % survival on average because that would easily allow me to make up losses and get a honey crop. I knew I was addicted after the first year and I'm glad for beesource and for the really great thought provoking threads and knowledgeable posters. Sorry for the wall of text but I'll try to do a better job of posting regularly in the coming years.


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## William Bagwell (Sep 4, 2019)

NJBeeVet said:


> I realized top bar hives are not easy to use conventional treatments on because of there design,


Thermal is virtually impossible in a top bar. Why mine will remain empty until I retire. Fresh coat of paint, new legs (weed eater marks) fall split then sell or trade the following spring.


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## drummerboy (Dec 11, 2015)

Great civil (informative) discussion. Thanks to all contributors.

Proclaiming your bees as TF can result in quite the backlash, almost like stating ones political affiliations, no?

....so, expecting the worst, I readily admit that our small apiary remains part of the 'resistance' - having treated (w/ chems) our bees just 'once' over the past 20 plus years, with so-so results. 

An observation; Those who treat bees seem to loose bees too. Every beekeeper I know (TF and not) looses bees, but usually due to plain old 'bad' beekeeping. Sorry but true  

Todays beekeepers must 'relearn methods' which rely on locally produced bees and queens, and move away from the commercialization of this practice, which is spelling out (screaming out) doom as loud as loud can be. Sometimes...treating is no treat imho.


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## A Novice (Sep 15, 2019)

William Bagwell said:


> Nor am I. Still chemical free! Do I get to beat my chest like a gorilla now?


Go for it! The video will be popular.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

drummerboy said:


> Great civil (informative) discussion. Thanks to all contributors.
> <Snip>
> 
> <Snip>
> Todays beekeepers must 'relearn methods' which rely on locally produced bees and queens, and move away from the commercialization of this practice, which is spelling out (screaming out) doom as loud as loud can be. Sometimes...treating is no treat imho.


Like many other dependencies it usually requires hitting undeniable bottom before they can be left behind. The present enabling economic model is going to be a hard habit to leave behind.


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## Arnie (Jan 30, 2014)

Tried the TF here a couple times with 100% losses both times. 
Can't develop resistance without survivors so I had to go in a different direction. 

I don't know anyone local who has had any success TF. 
There's a guy I know who has about 300 hives, sells queens.
He tried TF on one of his yards and also had 100% loss.

TF would be great, but.......not happening here.


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## A Novice (Sep 15, 2019)

I think that everyone gets along pretty well, until the TF (or not TF) groups start evangelizing.

The idea that TF (or not TF) is somehow more righteous or virtuous tends to provoke a strong reaction from the unbelievers.

I am always interested in learning what methods people use to maintain bees TF. Most of them aren't practical for me, but I might try them if I get a place where I can run more hives.

Treating mites doesn't work all that well anyway.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

A Novice said:


> I think that everyone gets along pretty well, until the TF (or not TF) groups start evangelizing.
> 
> The idea that TF (or not TF) is somehow more righteous or virtuous tends to provoke a strong reaction from the unbelievers.
> 
> ...


I dont believe in giving mites treats either! They just keep coming back for more. Killling mites effectively keeps _those ones_ from coming back.


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## Arnie (Jan 30, 2014)

@Novice, I would have to disagree that treating mites doesn't work all that well. 

Without killing the mites I would have no bees at all.

Since starting to treat our hive numbers have grown. 

Your results may be different, but that's part of the fun of beekeeping. There are few absolutes.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

A Novice said:


> ............
> Treating mites doesn't work all that well anyway.


Review my method.
You know what it is.


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## Litsinger (Jun 14, 2018)

As the OP, I thought I would follow-up to clarify that the intent for the question was not to debate treating or not, but rather to simply poll how many TF practitioners are still on the forum.

Since joining Beesource in 2018, there have been a lot of folks come and go, especially among some of the more experienced members- and I was curious if they were still around but simply not posting as much or if they have moved on.

I am glad to read there are still some TF folks on the forum, and I am hopeful that discussions of the practice continue to have an audience.


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## ursa_minor (Feb 13, 2020)

Litsinger said:


> I am glad to read there are still some TF folks on the forum, and I am hopeful that discussions of the practice continue to have an audience.


The audience will be a bit wider than you think. Some of us who treat are drawn to TF posts to learn, see what is new and what aspects of a person's TF methods we might be able to incorporate into our own yearly mite treatments. 

There is something new every day, new science or studies that support a TF angle or ones that debunk old studies. It is all valuable information. Maybe one day a person who has a TF method and chooses to share will lead to a breakthrough. You never know.


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## A Novice (Sep 15, 2019)

My piont in saying treating mites doesn't work all that well is that it doesn't work all that well. Treating mites makes it possible for many people to keep bees, but most people who treat still lose colonies and have weaker colonies than if there were no mites. It does work. Just not that well. If it worked well, we wouldn't need to keep doing it.


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## Andy Berg (May 11, 2020)

Litsinger said:


> I am glad to read there are still some TF folks on the forum, and I am hopeful that discussions of the practice continue to have an audience.


I'm only a couple years in and not sure TF is workable in my location, but I really appreciate reading about everyone's experiments and experiences. Keep it up, please, all of you.


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

@Litsinger, just a reminder, "Curiosity killed the cat".  Don't give up on us. We need you.

Alex


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

I have hopes to make some splits this spring and try some TF. I have an isolated location I can use.


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## Litsinger (Jun 14, 2018)

AHudd said:


> "Curiosity killed the cat".


Alex:

Thank you for your kind words- the feeling is definitely mutual.

I suppose I lament the general exodus of the experienced on the forum, felt rather acutely in the TF subforum.

But as Jonson snidely observed, _‘Helter skelter, hang sorrow, care’ll kill a cat, up-tails all, and a louse for the hangman.’_

So It may be worrying too much rather than curiosity that leads to my morose state.


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## A Novice (Sep 15, 2019)

Russ, if you look you will see that the ratio of views to comments is typically about 10 to 1 or a bit more. On this thread, the ratio is about 20 to 1.

A lot of people are reading but not commenting.


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## Litsinger (Jun 14, 2018)

A Novice said:


> A lot of people are reading but not commenting.


No doubt. Like I alluded to, just wondering out loud if any of the gray heads are still around...


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## joebeewhisperer (May 13, 2020)

Litsinger said:


> No doubt. Like I alluded to, just wondering out loud if any of the gray heads are still around...


Russ, at this point I have one going through it's 2nd winter TF. Below is a link to the day I made a split with known mites (7/11/2021). I was hoping the queen would stay around but she swarmed about mid-July this year. New queen came in and picked right up. They are in a Lyson 6-frame 3 deep. They were good an active a few days ago.

I've been fairly hands-off with them. Grafted a few early queens from it this year. Did a bit of checker-boarding to hold them back. Used the resources for a nuc or two.

That's about as much nerve as I have at this point. Last year they came out early as my 2nd strongest. If they are rocking in April-May, I may expand. 



__
http://instagr.am/p/CRNE2Botl9n/


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## Hoot Owl Lane Bees (Feb 24, 2012)

I am TF and have been for years. I am blessed to be able to breed queens at home because it is all forest for 10 miles in any direction. I know of 3 feral hives that have been established for years that visit my wet frames after extraction. I don't keep hives at home just over winter nucs. Yes I lose a few each year but I have found over the last few years it's more from breaking cluster and brooding up, in Feb. than any thing else. This past summer I spent very little time in my hives do to sickness but they all went in to winter strong. I will be checking them next week when it warms up.


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

Litsinger said:


> Alex:
> 
> Thank you for your kind words- the feeling is definitely mutual.
> 
> ...


Russ
maybe they learned what they needed and "graduated"
so do, and some like to talk about it.

not here commenting on BS may not equate to Not TF.

If I go back to work or get 50 more hives my time to comment may drop to zero.

GG


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## Litsinger (Jun 14, 2018)

Gray Goose said:


> ... not here commenting on BS may not equate to Not TF.


I agree- just miss the insight.


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## Meady Beekeeper (11 d ago)

I’m curious about things people use that do not directly fight mites. Such as vitamin supplements or probiotics. Do hardcore tf keepers consider that treating?


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

A Novice said:


> Russ, if you look you will see that the ratio of views to comments is typically about 10 to 1 or a bit more. On this thread, the ratio is about 20 to 1.
> 
> A lot of people are reading but not commenting.



*1% rule*

1% rule - Wikipedia


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## Meady Beekeeper (11 d ago)

GregB said:


> *1% rule*
> 
> 1% rule - Wikipedia


Thank you for this link Greg. I will admit I was not an active participant on here for the last couple years. I felt due to my inexperience l had very little to offer. I’ve now gotten to the point of feeling comfortable to join and ask questions.In only a few days you guys have been beyond helpful. Thank you.


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## AR1 (Feb 5, 2017)

Meady Beekeeper said:


> Thank you for this link Greg. I will admit I was not an active participant on here for the last couple years. I felt due to my inexperience l had very little to offer. I’ve now gotten to the point of feeling comfortable to join and ask questions.In only a few days you guys have been beyond helpful. Thank you.


One thing newcomers can do is post to the bloom date and swarm date threads. Useful info that I refer back to frequently in the springtime.








Post Your Bloom Dates


Help build a database of bloom dates.




www.beesource.com












Post Your Swarm Dates


Help build a database of swarm dates.




www.beesource.com





Even if you know little about bees, you might notice when the flowers start blooming in your neighborhood.


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## Litsinger (Jun 14, 2018)

GregB said:


> 1% rule


Interesting. Didn't know this.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Litsinger said:


> Interesting. Didn't know this.


I did not either.
But of course, Google knows about everything.


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## William Bagwell (Sep 4, 2019)

Litsinger said:


> Interesting. Didn't know this.


Online statistics
Members online 13
Guests online 308
So this falls in between the 1% and the 9% at the moment. Guests obviously neither create or contribute...


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## drummerboy (Dec 11, 2015)

Yet it answers the question: Is there anybody out there?


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## mill-j (10 mo ago)

Litsinger said:


> How many TF beeks still frequent the forum?


I don't know if I exactly "frequent" this forum... It kinda comes and goes. Right now it's winter, so it's a great time for reading up on beekeeping information while impatiently waiting for spring


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