# planning ahead in upstate NY



## bluelake

Hello.

Our family has a hundred acres plus of rural land, with a few old farm fields included. Im looking at getting two or three hives to start as a hobby. Honey for the family. Ok I admit it.. it'd be more fun to sell it than give it away!!!

Im in upstate NY, Oneida County.... Im just learning with this site and the book I bought (Cornell pub). Im a bit overwhelmed by the variety of choices with equipment to begin with, but so far i seem to be leaning with deep frames for the bees to live and store in, and medium supers on top. I keep reading different advice, but this is my starting point.

Im interested in some regional advice (I do have some local contacts as well) to hear what others are doing for hardware... I think I am going to assemble components mostly by Dadant (figure i can drive to Waverly to avoid shipping charges) or maybe Betterbee. I still have to figure out getting packages this spring locally so if anyone can help that'd be apprieciated.

Im sure my firsts posts will oooze my naivety, but hoping that will improve over time.

Thanks for having me here, Bluelake


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## LandellApiaries

I am a bit south of you in Ulster County. I use deeps for the bees to live in. In upstate you will want to winter with 2 deeps. I use mediums for honey supers. You will need to decide on what type of frames you want to use as well. I use wooden with plastic foundation, but it really is just personal preference. I tend to keep a slatted rack on my hives as well. Plan for some sort of ipm (integrated pest management) in your hives and try to hook up with a local beek to give you a hand.


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## bluelake

LandellApiaries said:


> I am a bit south of you in Ulster County. I use deeps for the bees to live in. In upstate you will want to winter with 2 deeps. I use mediums for honey supers. You will need to decide on what type of frames you want to use as well. I use wooden with plastic foundation, but it really is just personal preference. I tend to keep a slatted rack on my hives as well. Plan for some sort of ipm (integrated pest management) in your hives and try to hook up with a local beek to give you a hand.


yes, that's what i have been thinking.... two deeps, and mediums for supers. and at the dadant catalog i was honing in on wod frame with plastic foundation as well. What is the slatted rack for? I plan to get some local help for sure.

Thanks.


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## lisascenic

Many local bee clubs have mentoring programs, pairing up experienced folks with newbies. 

When I started out, I invited myself into as many bee yards as possible, to see how things were done.


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## AmericasBeekeeper

Slatted rack increases space for the bees to "hang out" it is optional. Don't let the choices or opinions on the forum overwhelm you. Don't give your bees more than they can use/cover 70 to 80 percent. There is lots of unnecessary stuff in beginners kits too. Everything beyond a bottom board, cover, super, frames and foundation is strictly optional. Tool/equipment wise you need a smoker, hive tool and veil. You might start with greater protection like a jacket or full suit, but there are inexpensive alternatives to the kits. Incidentally, leather is the sample of choice to test defensive behavior, stinging. Something to consider if you buy gloves. Surgical, painting gloves deter all but squishing stings and you do not pass diseases and mess from hive to hive.


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## scdw43

Don't wait to long before ordering bees or you might have to wait another year. Your season is not that long, so they will need most of the season to build up so they can winter.


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## Happy Honey Farm

We are teaching a beginner beekeeping class at the Oriskany COP we had our first class last week I think we can fit you in next class in Feb if you are interested call me at 315-368-4732 my name is Jim.


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## sqkcrk

And the Empire State Honey Producers Association Inc. is having it's Summer Picnic in July at the VA Hospital Grounds in Canandaigua, NY. Hope to see you there.


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## stoweski

Don't buy packaged bees from the south! Spend the few extra $$ and buy nucs from a local source that have overwintered in our area. I have had absolutely NO luck with southern bees. Bought bees from VT that overwintered in the state along with a swarm and a cutout locally and they survived. Georgia bees went down fast... all three years.

Just my $.02.


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## metrosean

If i were starting over, I would use all mediun supers. Three mediums equal two deeps and if you want to expand or move around everything will be interchangable. Do a search on this site for using medium supers, and the most important thing is check out Michael Bush's website. You will be impressed. Good luck


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## Bodhi

bluelake said:


> I still have to figure out getting packages this spring locally so if anyone can help that'd be apprieciated.


Mike Johnston is in Madison County. The nucs I got from him last spring did very well.

http://johnstonshoneybeefarm.com/


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## swamprat

welcome to beekeeping bluelake.im just east of you in westmoreland


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## stoweski

metrosean said:


> If i were starting over, I would use all mediun supers. Three mediums equal two deeps and if you want to expand or move around everything will be interchangable. Do a search on this site for using medium supers, and the most important thing is check out Michael Bush's website. You will be impressed. Good luck



I'll second both of those suggestions too. 

I wish I had started with all mediums. Makes life a little easier since everything is interchangeable.

And the online 'bee bible' has been a great help to me as well.


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## bluelake

thanks for all the advice. I do plan to assemble basic equipment versus a kit. And to the local folks who replied, thanks and I will be in touch with you soon.


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## iahawk

Welcome to beekeeping and the forum.
My daughter and her husband live in upstate NY--great place for bees.
I think 2 deeps or 3 mediums depends for one thing on your physical abilities. I'm over 60 yrs. old, in good health, etc., but I'll tell you--picking up a medium super full of bees and honey is about all I care for. When I was starting out and this was suggested, I kind of scoffed at the thought of the weight being a problem but I'm glad I went with the mediums. On the other hand, if you can handle them fine it does involve less manipulation and probably makes inspection a bit easier. 
Good luck!


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## dragonfly

It sounds like you have a great place for starting out! Welcome to Beesource.


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## bluelake

..... and to be certain, if i am going to go with all mediums then it would be 3 supers for the hive and then 2 or 3 supers for honey. So for one hive i would be ordering 5 or 6 identical medium supers correct?


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## sqkcrk

If you are going to use all medium supers for both brood and honey supers, I would recommend 6 or 8 per hive. The first season, you may not find that you will use them all, what w/ drawing comb and such. But some years you will find that thhree honey supers aren't enuf, unless you extract at the right time.

It's better to have too many supers than it is to find out yopu need more right away.


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## iahawk

I agree with SQKCRK, that it is better, if it fits your pocketbook, to have several supers per hive available. If you don't want to put out that kind of money right at the start, I think 5 mediums per hive would be fine for a couple years. Your bees will need to draw out the comb, and they would be busy bees indeed to draw out more that 50 frames in a couple years. There are places this can happen--upstate NY doesn't have a tremendously long growing season, though. Five will get you going for sure and in your second year you'll start to get an idea what you might need. 
Of course, if you can afford it, go for more! Building boxes and frames is a good winter hobby.


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## stoweski

There's a place near me/between us (Fort Plaine, NY) that sells assembled medium supers for $5.50 - glued & nailed. Not 100% sure of the thickness of the wood but they are made out of pine. 

They also sell other hive equipment for very reasonable prices.

If you're interested send me a PM and I'll send you the info.

Keith


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## Highwoods John

I am transitioning to all medium supers. Its so much easier to be dealing with one size frame which can be used in both your brood chambers and honey supers.

I also use 8 frame equipment which is much easier on the back.


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## bluelake

im planning to put an order in and hopefully make one trip to dadant in waverly, atleast to make these initial purchases. i really want to begin with three colonies. I think i will go with six mediums for each as a start for the first season. mediums versus the deeps does cost me more than i planned but i can make it work.

the field i plan to put these in is a 9 acre field, a local farmer plants a third in corn and another third in buckwheat. we also plant lots of sunflowers and i see there are some better than others... im hoping this offsets our shorter growing season a bit.


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## BeeTulls

bluelake, I'm just over in Clinton (well, 2.5 miles east of the village center). Here's wishing you all the best on your bee launch!

- Tim


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## BeeTulls

oops! did NOT realize that this was my first post! :doh: I suppose I became so used to lurking that i kept lurking even after registering, lol!


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## bluelake

im angling toward three hives, but i could do a few more. How many is too many to begin with. I have three days off of work per week, and plan to have some mentors... still getting a handle on the overall workload.

Also.. do I need to plan on splitting the colony at all in the frst year? Whether I buy packages or nucs (leaning toward nucs.. mediums anyone?) Im not sure how many to order. One per hive? or less in anticipation of splitting.

Thanks.


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## sqkcrk

Three is a good number to start w/. 300 would be too many for most.


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## Highwoods John

I would start with two.

You cannot do a split the first year. Maybe in the Spring of year two if you have a strong hive.

Your goal is to build up the hives to the point that they have enough honey to get them through their first winter. You shouldnt even expect to get any honey the first year - Maybe just a frame or to show off.

I suggest you invest in a good book or two on basic beekeeping and do a lot of reading.


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## bluelake

Thanks John. I do have a great book from Cornell, and this site and others are filling in the gaps (as well as adding to the variety of advice).


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## sqkcrk

Which book is that?


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## metrosean

Starting with two is the right way to go. Something to compare to. I just bought twenty mediums from Mann Lake with no shipping and no tax. Best price I could find online... Looks pretty good to me. Maybe starting with one package and one nuc is the way to go, there is plenty to be learned from both. Good luck.


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## Happy Honey Farm

I only see one problem for you because you already bought all med equipment, most beekeepers sell deep nucs, so you may have to buy packages. If you want nucs make sure you ask the beekeeper if he has mediums.


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## bluelake

yeah I am aware of that complication. Deep/medium... package/nucs. I could hem and haw through an entire year and i decided to commit! I am not opposed ot packages if I cannot find medium nucs anywhere nearby.


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## bluelake

sqkcrk said:


> Which book is that?


Beekeeper Handbook

http://www.amazon.com/Beekeepers-Ha...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1296589125&sr=1-1


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## sqkcrk

Cool.

If you can find a copy, and you should be able to, find Roger Morse's book "A Year In The Beeyard". He wrote it for the Ithaca area, but it translates all over the place. It's kinda out of date because of all the stuff that we have experienced since Roger's death, but it's still good. It gives you a month by month guide as to what you should be doing or getting ready to do. Check it out.


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## bluelake

sqkcrk said:


> Cool.
> 
> If you can find a copy, and you should be able to, find Roger Morse's book "A Year In The Beeyard". He wrote it for the Ithaca area, but it translates all over the place. It's kinda out of date because of all the stuff that we have experienced since Roger's death, but it's still good. It gives you a month by month guide as to what you should be doing or getting ready to do. Check it out.


thanks for the tip. ill wth for that book used.


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