# Cowen 60 frame



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Noticed inthe lates mags, Cowen is advertising thier 60 frame air extractor.
With the ad they include a claim from a customer, refering to extracting 1000 deeps with 5 guys in 9 1/2 hours day.
Not really sure I believe it. I have one, not air, but I cant possibly see how they can run 10000 frames through the machine in 91/2 hours.

We run a production of 250 boxes per day, average and topped 350 boxes. With the 350 box day the uncapper never went idle, and we were running a 6-8 min extraction period. We pull out 1400lbs/hour average. Thats with 4 guys.

I cant figure how they could get 1000 boxes through even if they were pulling wet honey. The machine can only convey the frames so fast.


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## Gregg (Dec 22, 2003)

I saw that ad also Ian, and I believe it said they were running two 60 framers. But even with two I am skeptical of going through 1,000 deeps in a day. Figuring each deep averages 50 - 60 lbs, that's 50,000 - 60,000 lbs per day, or roughly 70 - 83 barrels (using 60 gallon barrels which generally avg. 720 lbs) per day. More honey than I have ever heard anyone going through, even with their 120 frame extractor.

Your 350 boxes/day is very plausible, which for two would equal 700 in a day. I have a 60 framer (non-air also) and generally go through about 200 boxes in a day (2 people), and usually don't work a full 8 hours.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

I just happened to be in his extracting room last week. He is a first rate beekeeper with an incredible energy level. He has two parralel 60 frame units each with it's own uncapper and de-boxer, a bottom bar cleaner runs between them and there is an overhead box return for each line. It is all in a square room of maybe 1,000 square feet. My first question was can his spinner (one cook beals) really handle that volume? He claims that it can. I am a bit like Ian in trying to figure out the math on how this is all possible but I do know that he is operating 10,000 plus hives and was done extracting by around October 1. He invited me up several times late in the summer saying he was amazed and I just had to see it to believe it, I never took the time to go, maybe next year. One person operates each uncapper, one unloads and hauls out boxes for each line and a fifth person is bringing in honey and putting the boxes on the bottom bar cleaner (sounds to me like the hard job). These three people are all working in fairly close proximity, it appears that it could be a bit of a traffic jam, he said that was a worry for him but that it worked out very well in practice.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Ahh, two systems. I missed that. Makes more sence. 

I read the ad a few times and missed that every time!


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## dcross (Jan 20, 2003)

Air? Powered by pneumatics?


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## Allen Martens (Jan 13, 2007)

Ian said:


> We run a production of 250 boxes per day, average and topped 350 boxes. With the 350 box day the uncapper never went idle, and we were running a 6-8 min extraction period.


I run a 60 frame Cowen as well but usually shoot for about 200 boxes for an eight hour day. My extraction period is normally about 10 to 12 min. Do you find you get all the honey out in 6 to 8 min? Maybe I'm just stuck in a rut from the 30 frame radial days. How deep do you cut your frames?

My spinner blew apart last year and I will have to replace it this year. I'm curious as to what your wax handling system is? Gregg I'd be interested in yours as well.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

I run the Cook Beals 120 frame and don't have any trouble with 7-8 minutes (with 6 5/8" equiipment) unless the honey is too dry. Obviously Rob is using that interval with his twin 60's or he could never be running 1,000 boxes.


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## Gregg (Dec 22, 2003)

Allen,

I have the Cowen spinner. Got it at the same time as the extractor and have used for two seasons. Jury is still out on how satisfied I am with it. 2007 worked fine, but 2006 was a nightmare. Very dry year and subsequently very dry honey, plugged up the spinner constantly. Can remember only being able to do a few hundred supers before having to hose it out thoroughly. Was much better this year, no problems. Most commercial guys I know use the Cook & Beals spin float separator however.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

>>Do you find you get all the honey out in 6 to 8 min? Maybe I'm just stuck in a rut from the 30 frame radial days. How deep do you cut your frames?


Yes and no. The question is how much honey is actually left in the frames after being spun for 6-8 min? 
The first pull I have a fresh crew, full frames and warm honey comming in. I can extract alot more honey in a day, first pull than the last two pulls. It extracts very well at 6-8 min, even comming in dry. My frames are empty.

The other two pulls I will run through less honey in a day, my workers are worn down, boxes might not be comming in full, and the honey doesnt come in as warm. It sure makes a difference to the honey when it comes into the hotroom cool. Even sitting overnight doesnt make the honey run as well as if it came in warm. Also depending on the situation, granulation might be a consideration. 

So 6-8 min of extraction tends to be enough for me, leaving a bit of honey in the comb on the later pulls if the conditions arent right. But I am only talking maybe a few pounds a box if I start running into thicker honey due to granulation.

The question become if the cut in production worth that extra bit of honey. For my operation time is money. That extra bit of last honey is a bonus for next years hives, i guess.






>>My spinner blew apart last year and I will have to replace it this year. I'm curious as to what your wax handling system is?

I have been running an older tub spinner, replaced it with a Fagger, but I am returning the old unit next year. It may be more work but it sure takes the honey better than anything i have seen under any condition, other than the spin floats of course.


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## Allen Martens (Jan 13, 2007)

Thanks Ian and Gregg.

Gregg you've given me second thoughts about the Cowen spinner and got me leaning towards a spin float.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Gets petty costly, but they say its worth the money.


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## Allen Martens (Jan 13, 2007)

That's why I've kept using my old maxant spinner until now. It has come to the point that I don't know how much more bad money I can throw at it.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Is it salvagable?
How well of a job does it do?
Do you have to manually remove the spun wax?

Do you know of anyone around that has a spinner for sale?


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## Allen Martens (Jan 13, 2007)

Ian said:


> Is it salvagable?
> How well of a job does it do?
> Do you have to manually remove the spun wax?
> 
> Do you know of anyone around that has a spinner for sale?


It did a good job. Some years ago I replaced the motor and redid the bearings. Now the frame and tub broke. Put $500 into it in summer and the solder melted (lead? -- not good with new CFIA rules) and is leaking honey. To top it off the shaft to the tube broke near the end of the season. I think I'm probably wise to label it toast.

Yeah the wax had to be scrapped out manually. 

If I knew the answer to your last question, I might will not be considering a spin float. Seen a galvanized spinner or two out there but with new rules that is pointless.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Your at about the same spot I am at Allen, 

I am considering the Cowen spinner. Better price now with the high Canadian dollar!
Still alot of money.

Tried the Fager Compressor, too slow!

I havent tried cappings wax melters. I know of a few people who do, but I havnt really considered them. They run all thier uncapper cappings through them. One fellow swears by them. But actually wonder how easy they are to run. 

Whats your opinion on melters?


There has got to be someone who offers a wax spinner other than Cowen and Cooks and Beals?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Gregg said:


> but 2006 was a nightmare. Very dry year and subsequently very dry honey, plugged up the spinner constantly. Can remember only being able to do a few hundred supers before having to hose it out thoroughly.


The fellow I had bought my old 120 frame dual real Cowen extractor use to run the unit blowing the steam from the cappings knife into the extractor, helping extract his honey. He kept bees west of here, in an area that is always dry, and pulled honey always dry.

He use to steam his spinner also. And finnished a load out with a 1/2 cup of warm water. Dried the wax real nice. But he did it only when the honey was real dry, like less than 16% dry.


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## Allen Martens (Jan 13, 2007)

I know a couple of guys that use or have used various types of melter set-ups. Definitely don't lose much honey this way, but they sure seems like a lot of work.

Maxant (http://www.maxantindustries.com/spinners.html) sells spinners as well. The senior cappings spinner is a newer version of the one I have been using. The cappings came out nice and dry, but if the frames are built out and the cappings going in very moist, the honey can't drain fast enough. The continuous feed through machine is pricey -- not sure if its a new product or not.

Kind of like the idea of no tank skimming with the spin floats, but still haven't convinced myself that I can afford the price (plus extras that may be required like extra pump, heat exchanger, etc.) Noticed that Herb Isaac has a couple of rebuilt spin floats on his site.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Thanks Allen, the seniour cappings spinner looks appealing, but still pricy figuring it is manual unload. I dont know. If I am going to spend $4000 on a manual unload machine, I might as well spring for a autoload Cowen, and be done with it,.

Going to keep my eyes open!


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