# How soon can you split a nuc/package



## JWPalmer

You should not have a problem splitting a package two months in. If you have two deeps with most of the frames drawn and coverwd with bees, no reason you could not make 2-3 nucs with them, especially if you will be adding a mated queen to each. Three frames of bees to each nuc and make sure you balance the resources too. May need to knock the donor hive back down to a single deep for a few weeks.


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## ifixoldhouses

Thanks, I'd like to have 10-15 going into winter, so I don't have to buy any next year


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## JWPalmer

That might be a little aggressive starting with a package. Heck, it is agressive starting with an overwintered hive. Your biggest hold up will be drawn comb. In another month or so, comb production is going to really slow down. I would shoot for six hives going into winter, then turn that into as many as thirty next year, assuming they all make it through winter. Feeding heavily will help keep the comb getting drawn, but once the flow stops, it is pretty much over for the new comb.


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## ifixoldhouses

I have 5 now, 3 were nucs, and 2 packages I combined, and one mating nuc going. I guess I'll get about 4-5 Queens, should I go for a local vsh queen that is 58 miles from here, or get a survivor type queen shipped? The survivor queens sound better, if you don't have to treat them, but a local would be better for the local weather I guess?

https://brooksmillfarms.com/queen-bees/ local

or:
http://wildflowermeadows.com/why-wildflower-meadows/vsh-survivor-queens/
or theres an ad on this site for survivors from Georgia
choices, choices


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## JWPalmer

Having 5 hIves is a different story, thought you had a single package. My personal opinion is to go for the VSH queens. TF survivor queens from out of area do not really have a good track record for maintaining that characteristic from what I have heard.


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## ifixoldhouses

Thanks for the help, for now I ordered 3 OHB Saskatraz Queens , I have 3 really strong hives, that will be easy to split in half.


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## enjambres

"Survivor-type" queens are not guaranteed to NEVER need treating. Anybody making that claim is on very thin ice in IMO. If there was any queenline that was reliably able to not need mite treatments in any environment, we'd all be clamoring for it. And the developer/provider would be a millionaire.

The very best we can do now are some lines that may need less treatment, but not _none._ At least if you want to have good survival year to year. And good survival Year-to-year to me means only a very rare winter loss, with no losses at all most years. Expecting 10 or 20 percent losses each year (that can be made up from OW nucs) is not acceptable to me. Successful Varroa management is not a mystery any more, nor is making sure all hives have sufficient stores for the winter in their area. Those two areas account for most winter losses and they are almost entirely beekeeper-amenable.

Get those two things right, and your big challenge will be swarms.

Nancy


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## bushpilot

enjambres said:


> "Survivor-type" queens are not guaranteed to NEVER need treating. Anybody making that claim is on very thin ice in IMO. If there was any queenline that was reliably able to not need mite treatments in any environment, we'd all be clamoring for it. And the developer/provider would be a millionaire.
> 
> The very best we can do now are some lines that may need less treatment, but not _none._ At least if you want to have good survival year to year. And good survival Year-to-year to me means only a very rare winter loss, with no losses at all most years. Expecting 10 or 20 percent losses each year (that can be made up from OW nucs) is not acceptable to me. Successful Varroa management is not a mystery any more, nor is making sure all hives have sufficient stores for the winter in their area. Those two areas account for most winter losses and they are almost entirely beekeeper-amenable.
> 
> Get those two things right, and your big challenge will be swarms.
> 
> Nancy


You are a very intelligent poster, and write well, Nancy. Thank you for participating in these forums.

Greg


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## ifixoldhouses

I would treat em with OAV at the very least, I think the Saskatraz Queens are the same thing but better.


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## ifixoldhouses

I split my 3 strong hives in half, queens coming tomorrow, hope they accept them and all. only other frames I have are medium, do you think they can over winter in a 8 frame deep, with a medium on top?

made a video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9qDkTOs6QU&t=154s


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## JWPalmer

Watched your vid, begining to end. The way you were hootin and hollerin after that bee stung you sure didnt seem like it only hurt for a second! And, you almost dropped the frame. Good save BTW.

Bees look like they are doing real well. Did not show us the bottom box, but I assume they were similar to the tops. FYI, those were well populated hives, but by no means packed. Packed is when you can't see the tops of the bars because there are so many bees.

You can do medium over deep nucs for winter no problem. I had nine I over wintered as either single deep 5's or with a medium over deep. I keep feeders on the nucs all winter long and give them sugar candy as well as syrup.

Check carefully for started queen cells before you put the queens in and destroy any you find. You are giving them 24 hrs queenless and I am sure some of those frames had just hatched larvae as you said you put the excluders on 4 days ago.

Thanks for sharing.


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## ifixoldhouses

JWPalmer said:


> Watched your vid, begining to end. The way you were hootin and hollerin after that bee stung you sure didnt seem like it only hurt for a second! And, you almost dropped the frame. Good save BTW.
> 
> Bees look like they are doing real well. Did not show us the bottom box, but I assume they were similar to the tops. FYI, those were well populated hives, but by no means packed. Packed is when you can't see the tops of the bars because there are so many bees.
> 
> You can do medium over deep nucs for winter no problem. I had nine I over wintered as either single deep 5's or with a medium over deep. I keep feeders on the nucs all winter long and give them sugar candy as well as syrup.
> 
> Check carefully for started queen cells before you put the queens in and destroy any you find. You are giving them 24 hrs queenless and I am sure some of those frames had just hatched larvae as you said you put the excluders on 4 days ago.
> 
> Thanks for sharing.


lol that's the first sting I've got that hurt at all, got me on the finger tip with all the nerves., video was only in 720p, filmed in 4k, I need a good movie maker.I did see a few queen cups, better clear em out tomorrow.


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## ifixoldhouses

I went through them all, found the queen in the one hive I moved up, so skipped that one. I scraped out all the queen cups, and squeezed the queen cage screen side down,between the frames in the middle, removed the plug, no nail hole, I'll wait a week-10 days before I check I guess. Then I'm thinking about treating with formic acid, is this the right time of year? Edit: scratch that, read the directions, maybe Apivar, video of the installation uploaded in my vlog.


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## ifixoldhouses

It's fixing to rain here for a week, so I took out the queen cages, and fed everyone, added Apivar strips. I have one hive (single deep 8 frame )that is so packed they sleep outside of it, and won't draw any comb in the medium box, think I should split it again?
see it at about 4:50 mark here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfe3sDnct3o&t=336s


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