# mating nuc stuff



## JBJ (Jan 27, 2005)

I would like to find an economical design or source for disc type entrance regulators. I would also like to inquire about the best location for screened ventilation holes? Are these additional ventilation holes really necessary? I am currently building 500 4-way western 2 frame mating nucs with feeders.


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

My medium 2 frame nucs have about a 1" entrance and no other ventilation. They worked fine here in Nebraska. I have some 2 frame, some divided five frame nucs divided into two and some 10 frame hives divided into four, two frame nucs. I like them all.

There are pictures on my website:

http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bush/bush_bees.htm

As far as location, the four way ones have the two of the entrances the "warm way", facing a comb. The other two entrances are the "cold way" facing the end bars. The entrances face the four directions, one in each direction. I stack them up like apartments.

As far as what I've watched the bees do, I've concluded they liketo build their comb at an angle to the entrance from corner to corner, so the closest I can get to that is to put the hole facing a comb more to one end. I think they like it that way because the comb blocks the wind blowing in the door but it's not too far to go around the corner.







The nucs tend to reduce the 1" hole down to about a 1/2" diameter hole when the weather is cold.


----------



## n2dsky (Feb 10, 2004)

Do you have a link to plans for this design? Would a strip or block attached with a deck screw work? Do you plan to use a screened bottom board?


----------



## JBJ (Jan 27, 2005)

I am a big fan of screened bottoms, but I do not plan to use them on my mating nucs, as there operation is seasonal, and small units may have a difficult time thermoregulating during weather extremes. The unit is essentially a 12 frame shallow that has a central divider and 2 two way feeder/divivders, thus giving four compartments that hold 2 standard western frames.


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Mine are standard 10 frame boxes that I cut down to 7 1/2" wide and made rabbets to slide dividers in. There are four, side by side, 2 frame compartments. There is a canvas inner cover stapled onto the dividers so I can open one without the bees spilling over into other compartments. I don't feed them, I just give them a frame of honey. Not feeding seems to cut down on robbing. I staple (with a 1/4" crown staple gun and 5/8" staples) a 1/4" exterior Laun plywood bottom on. When I stack them up I only put a cover on the top one and the bottom of the one above makes an outer cover and the canvas makes the inner cover.

I faced them in four directions to hopefully confuse the queen less when she returns from mating. Ventilation has not been a problem. The only time I've seen them have a problem is when I leave the queen in until the 2 frames are full and it's really full of bees and it's a really hot day. But that seldom happens. When it does it's time to either move them to a bigger nuc or do a split on the nuc. I can pull a frame of brood with bees out to start a new two frame nuc and put an empty back in for the queen to lay in.


----------



## TwT (Aug 5, 2004)

JBJ, do you mean this type disk regulator?
http://www.betterbee.com/products.asp?dept=305


----------



## JBJ (Jan 27, 2005)

TwT, yes that is what I had in mind. Previoulsy I have not used any such device, but this year I am starting with bulk bees and would like some of the options this device makes available. Also I am a little concerned that they may not fit. The price is the real show stopper in the quantities that I need.


----------



## franc (Jan 7, 2003)

What are the advantages of a Disc regulator ?...The only one I can see is if the Nuc gets over populated the queen excluder could prevent swarming.


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Some people populate the mating nuc with some bees and no brood and use the regulator to hold the bees in for a day or two while they get settled. Then they use the other openings for either reducing robbing or maybe even to keep the queen in the nuc. There are four quadrants on the disc. One for ventilation and keeping all bees in. One with a queen excluder (includer) to keep the queen in. One that is a reduced entrance and one that is wide open.

I have a few around here and never used them. I just put some open brood in the nuc box and they stay well enough.


----------



## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

My baby nucs are always made up with bulk bees (no brood)and closed up in a shady cool place until the third day.I have a half inch hole drilled for the entrance and a one inch screened vent hole drilled around 2 inches above that.A wooden 'trigger' opens or closes the entrance.Its a 2 1/2" X 3/4" X 3/8" strip nailed through the center and bradded over.When I had a couple hundred 4 way med.supers mating nucs with special short frames I set them up the same and they worked fine.The vent hole is necessary if you have a small entrance or will close it up.The small entance hole helps keep the nucs from being robbed out.


----------



## SippyBees (Feb 17, 2004)

loggermike, was wondering what your opinion/success was with the four-way med. supers used as mating nucs... I'm using double mating nucs now, but was thinking of building a couple hundred of the 4-way nucs in a med super. I was told by one person it worked great... then another said he recommended the double nucs. The 4-way nuc seems easier to work/less labor to feed/catch etc etc. Whats your opinion?
Thanx


----------



## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

They worked ok ,I cant remember any problems using them(its been a few years).Mine were set up with half length frames.I wouldnt do that again,but would go with standard frames so the nucs could be combined into a strong hive after raising queens then used for almond pollination the next year.3 mediums stacked will do it.I just use the small baby nucs now because they were cheap to make,only need a coffee cup of bees and a beer can full of syrup to set up, and are light to carry.But more things can go wrong with them than a larger nuc.


----------



## James Burke (Feb 4, 2002)

I prefer a medium super divided in two. As posted earilier, it makes it easier to incorporate into a larger colony and you don't need to do a lot of extra cutting. 

HONEY FLOW is another reason to avoid mini nucs. Since I tend to rear queens through the entire year, I've found that a good honey flow will pack out a nuc quickly. Med. supers pack out just as quickly, BUT you can move frames into supers and keep the bees busy with lots of room. I've had four frame nucs produce nearly a super of honey (each) this way. You have to stay on top of things, though.

Regards,

Jim


----------



## BerkeyDavid (Jan 29, 2004)

Hi all
I just built 10 mating nucs set up for 2 medium frames. My question is how to best populate. Loggermike said he uses bulk bees then shuts them up for a few days. I am assuming that this requires feed, either a frame of honey or a feeder.
Do you also have drawn comb for them or foundation? And do you add the queen cell after the third day, right at the beginning, or does it matter?
I am thinking I should put a frame of honey / pollen in there with them and the other frame could be empty comb or sealed brood.
I am also thinking that if you use open brood you don't need to seal them up for 3 days like Loggermike.


----------



## franc (Jan 7, 2003)

Berkey one of the reasons for the 3 days is because that gives the queen time to hatch and bond with the bees in that Nuc.The Nuc should also be moved to a different yard for mating so they don't drift back to their hive.If there is no bond the bees tend to drift from Nucs with unhatched queens to Nuc's who's Queens hatched so you end up with Nuc's that have alot of bees and some with very few.That why the 3 days/with queen cells is a good idea.If you space the Nuc's way far apart say a couple hundred feet you shouldn't have too much problem.In your case it sounds like your splitting a hive into Nuc's so Drifting could be a problem if you fill both sides.


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I just built 10 mating nucs set up for 2 medium frames. My question is how to best populate. Loggermike said he uses bulk bees then shuts them up for a few days. I am assuming that this requires feed, either a frame of honey or a feeder.

I use 2 frame mediums nucs for mating. I have some singles, some doubles and some that are four in one 10 frame box. But the end result is all the same.

I put one frame of open brood (with bees) and one frame of honey (with bees) and shake in one frame of brood. I don't close it up and I don't move it anywhere, it stays within a few feet of the donor colony. Of course you have to make SURE you don't get a laying queen in it.

>And do you add the queen cell after the third day

I make them up the afternoon before and put the queen cell in the next morning.


----------



## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

The little baby nucs are made up assembly line fashion .They are lined up,the lids taken off and the pop can feeder is filled with syrup.2 combs are taken out.A ripe cell is attached to one comb(I use a propane torch to heat a spot on the comb then stick the cell to it)This comb is put back in.Then the fun begins.A coffe cup nailed to a handle is dipped into the bulk bees(previously shaken from outyards)and each nuc gets a scoop.These bees need to be well fed previously and cool or they will boil out and fly away!It may be neccessary to damp them down a bit from time to time.They are closed up and kept in as cool a place as possible .On the third day they are placed in the mating yard and the triggers opened.During the time they were closed up the virgin emerged and they put some of the syrup in the combs.2 weeks later you will be able to tell if they have a mated queen as soon as you open the lid.
Making up larger nucs with brood is better in my opinion as you avoid lots of the potential problems with these small broodless nucs.The baby nucs are a dirty brutal way to get a lot of queens cheaply however!


----------



## n2dsky (Feb 10, 2004)

LM - can you describe the pop can feeder you mentioned? Thanks in advance


----------



## JBJ (Jan 27, 2005)

Loggermike, have you ever used the queen pheremone replacement(QMP) strips to help stabilize the nucs when you stock them? It is my understanding that they help signifigantly reduce drifting. With a baby nuc a partial strip should be enough to get the ball rolling I hear from the guys at Phereotech.


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

http://go.netgrab.com/secure/kelleystore/asp/product.asp?product=228

Here's a deep version of what I use for mating queens. I make a canvas inner cover for each so I can open them seperatly and mine are mediums and mine don't have the extra vent. But it's the same concept.


----------



## Rob Mountain (Dec 8, 2003)

Mike 

This is what I designed for the Walter T. Kelley Co. They work rather well I used them last year. Using deep frames really makes stocking them easy.


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

If I ran all deeps, it's what I'd buy.







But I run all mediums so I make something almost like it but in medium depth. I did put one entrance in each direction though. So each side has one entrance to cut down on confusion when returning from mating.


----------



## Rob Mountain (Dec 8, 2003)

>> I did put one entrance in each direction though. So each side has one entrance to cut down on confusion when returning from mating.<<

#95- Queen Mating Box	0039	

#95- Queen mating box. Standard hive body size, features four separate compartments, each with it's own entrance, air vents, and plywood lid. Fully assembled. No outer cover included. Ship wt. 20 lbs.
________________________________________

If you look at the lower right hand corner you will see the entrance for compartment # 2. The larger holes are screened ventilation holes. Notice how I have one closer to the top and one closer to the bottom for each compartment


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I gather that the vents and entrances are staggered. But the are all on the ends. That's a good thing if you want to butt them up against each other.

I put an entrance on the East for one of the center two and on the West for the other of the center two and on the North and the South for the two outside ones.


----------



## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

>>can you describe the pop can feeder 
Its an aluminum beer or pop can with the top cut off with a can opener.A piece of mtal window screen is cut to line the inside as a ladder so the bees dont drown.Some do anyway.

>>have you ever used the queen pheremone replacement(QMP) strips 
No but it seems like a very good idea worth trying.


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Just wanted to say I didn't intend any of my remarks to be critical of the Walter T. Kelly mating nucs that Rob designed, I'm not. I think for someone running deeps (most people do) and in the South (most queen breeders are) who is raising lots of queens and wants to put the mating hives tight against each other, they are perfect.

I happen to be running all mediums, in a Northern climate and don't need them up against each other. I was merely pointing out the differences.


----------



## Rob Mountain (Dec 8, 2003)

Hey Mike 

No offense taken. In fact I have no loyalty to the Walter T. Kelly CO. at all. They are very good at taking a persons ideas and making them their own. 

I certainly take your point about running mediums and about raising queens in the Northern climate.

You are doing a very good job of educating our fellow beekeepers on this site and certainly with your own beekeeping too. Dont forget I am using one of your queens form last year.

Mike you ROCK


----------



## bfirek (Apr 16, 2011)

Rob,

Is this close to the box you design. It is a mating box from Walter T Kelly but it has only thee entrances. Here is the description:

This kit includes a standard hive body box with a wooden bottom and 3 separate compartments, each with its own entrance, air vents and lid. Fully assembled. (Oversized rate applies)

Just wondering if you think this is a good box.

Even though thread is older I found it very intresting. 

Thanks for your thoughts....

Best Regards,

Bob



Rob Mountain said:


> >> I did put one entrance in each direction though. So each side has one entrance to cut down on confusion when returning from mating.<<
> 
> #95- Queen Mating Box	0039
> 
> ...


----------

