# Oh my GOSH! Massive hive removal!!



## Fivej (Apr 4, 2016)

Can't wait to see those pics!


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## My-smokepole (Apr 14, 2008)

Why to cheap.


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## Swampsquash (Oct 25, 2014)

My-smokepole said:


> Why to cheap.


Out of curiosity how do you determine what you charge someone? I find everyone thinks it should be free lol


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Beestudent, why start the cutouts so late in the day? Same story last year when that late season one went to pot.


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## My-smokepole (Apr 14, 2008)

There is good money in doing this Servise. And cost to the beekeeper. I get between 75 and 100 per man hour with a minimal charge. An that is almost to cheep. With all the tools and supply's that I may bring or tie up could well be a several thousand dollars. I like a return in my investment. As a full time contractor after I have open up there home I offer to rebuild it. So that no one would never now I was there.


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## SouthTexasJohn (Mar 16, 2015)

Swampsquash said:


> I find everyone thinks it should be free lol


You got that right. I told myself that I was not going to do cutouts. Next thing I know I have done 4 and the last one was meaner than when Marshall Dillion woke up. Now folks call, I go look and they say, "well if you want the bees it should be free". They still have no clue about how these AHB are down here. Plus the $$$ to hive them and replace the queen and dispose of the drones and clean my equipment and fuel for my pickup and take time away from my bees.....ok I will stop but for free.......they can keep the bees as I have plenty.


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## beestudent (Jun 10, 2015)

well, some twists and turns... The massive hive I had mentioned, was truly massive. 100+ lbs honey, at least 20-25 deep frames of old brood comb, 1/4 frame brood, and about 1k +/- bees... What happened from the beggining, was this:

at noon or so, we get this call about having bees, they were discovered last year (but from the size of the nest and the color of the brood comb, they'd been there AWHILE...) anyway when they were found, exterminators left "powder" or "pellets" or some such thing, and "bees were dropping like crazy" was what we got from them... but, alas, they were still there. So, we got there, (they are having the whole house re shingled, and the nest was conveniently located right in the way... you get the picture.) got to tearing into it, didn't see anybee. kept going after re-supplying, and found the huge nest. retreating, and arming ourselves with 55-quart tubs (for honey) finished tearing out most of it, but the bees were spread all over the place, and 2 blobs of bees were unable to be removed at the moment. So, we had to leave the bees (really not that many...) I framed the single piece of brood and left it there next to the bees (really, really hoping they collect over the brood... was some capped brood, didn't get a close look to see any larva or eggs... and I THINK I saw the queen, but might not have...) There was a possibility of rain, so we threw a tarp over the hole. (don't know if the bees will be OK after all this...) so, in the end what sounds like what happened, was this was a booming hive last year, they powdered them, most of them died, they made it into winter with a small group of bees, and have little to no chance of survival as i see it.

So, an update: (wrote everything above last night) all the honey is removed, the bees are moved home now, and we got paid. The bees we hived in a nuc with 2 combs, and have feed on them. Will they survive? I don't know. Is it possible that late last year, they fed the bees that powder, the queen died, and some winter bees made it through winter? because I didn't see a queen (there wern't many to look through) and there was drone brood in some worker cells (about 30-40 cells capped, one had his head sticking out, and no larva or eggs) so, maybe?


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## beestudent (Jun 10, 2015)




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## beestudent (Jun 10, 2015)




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## beestudent (Jun 10, 2015)

have 3 videos that will be posted tomorrow sometime probably






also, JWCarlson, we started at like 1PM, so no, not late at night...


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## cobeek (Apr 14, 2015)

beestudent said:


> said they sprayed last year, but they are still alive...
> 
> exterminators left "powder" or "pellets" or some such thing, and "bees were dropping like crazy" was what we got from them...
> 
> and arming ourselves with 55-quart tubs (for honey)...


Are you going to eat or sell that honey? Doesn't sound like a good idea.

Nice fun otherwise!


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

If all you see is drone brood you're probably hosed. 

Also... I wouldn't eat or sell or feed that honey back to bees. I don't know how you dispose of that kind of thing...? Burn it, I suppose.


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## Colino (May 28, 2013)

My-smokepole said:


> There is good money in doing this Servise. And cost to the beekeeper. I get between 75 and 100 per man hour with a minimal charge. An that is almost to cheep. With all the tools and supply's that I may bring or tie up could well be a several thousand dollars. I like a return in my investment. As a full time contractor after I have open up there home I offer to rebuild it. So that no one would never now I was there.


I charge a $100 per hour plus expenses plus my helpers wages and I keep the bees. Last one I did was $1650 and they closed up the wall.


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## Swampsquash (Oct 25, 2014)

Colino said:


> I charge a $100 per hour plus expenses plus my helpers wages and I keep the bees. Last one I did was $1650 and they closed up the wall.


Wow really? I wish I could get something close to that...I say 2-300 for hives in soffits and 90% of the time I get a no thanks. People here seem to think I should be more then thrilled to remove them for free.


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

Colino said:


> I charge a $100 per hour plus expenses plus my helpers wages and I keep the bees. Last one I did was $1650 and they closed up the wall.


That equates to around 1200 US dollars..... not a bad take.


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## Colino (May 28, 2013)

Mr.Beeman said:


> That equates to around 1200 US dollars..... not a bad take.


Yes but I just did one today as a favor I owed and all I got was some stinkin bees! But that aside, I think people are not charging enough. It takes some acquired skills to do a proper cut out especially if it also includes reconstruction of the structure. When I quote a cut out I put right in the contract that all bees and usable comb become property of my Apiary. If they try to use the bees as a bargaining chip I tell them they can keep the bees and then raise my price. Generally they quit bargaining and take the original quote.


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## jadebees (May 9, 2013)

I charge $75 to get out of the truck, and look. Applied to any eventual cutout. I charge $75 per hour additional. Most folks in this area dont have much money. They're either too broke or too cheap, so Seldom do I have to do a cutout. Thats what it takes to get me to do one.

I have 35 years of construction experience, so I'm very qualified to do the demolition. Closing up is theirs. Repairs, if they wish, are a separate bill. But at least I'm good at it.

If that doesnt work for them, I tell them to enjoy their bees.

I will do them for charity sometimes. But when I roll up on a $200,000 home its not going to be free or cheap.


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## Swampsquash (Oct 25, 2014)

jadebees said:


> I charge $75 to get out of the truck, and look. Applied to any eventual cutout. I charge $75 per hour additional. Most folks in this area dont have much money. They're either too broke or too cheap, so Seldom do I have to do a cutout. Thats what it takes to get me to do one.
> 
> I have 35 years of construction experience, so I'm very qualified to do the demolition. Closing up is theirs. Repairs, if they wish, are a separate bill. But at least I'm good at it.
> 
> ...


Yeah I hear ya....I got a call yesterday for a couple year old cutout(at least that's what they said) in a shed. I'm trying to come up with a quote that they will accept. I feel like they might be cheap even though its a fairly nice side of town. They have someone who will rebuild the shed flooring so I don't have to worry about that(seems to me that most of the time that's just another way to be cheap). I just don't get why people expect free removal down here. It ain't cheap driving a V8 truck around and wasting half my day or more removing your bees.


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## mike17l (Jun 22, 2012)

$250 for the removal in the OP is way too cheap. The bees wont make it, and the honey should be destroyed. The only thing of value you got was $250, and you worked 8 hours or so it seems, so $30/hr??? Not a chance I would do that.

I feel I am under charging, but I have some hack jobs in the area that operate cash only businesses that do it cheaper. 
I charge $250 for the first hour of work and $50/hr for each subsequent hour.
If the hive is under a home, in an attic, or above 12', the rates are $300 for the first and $75 for each subsequent hour.
I am the only legitimate business operating in the immediate area. As I do more and more removals and get a name out there, the rates will increase.

Anyone that hems and haws about rates, I tell them "I offer professional service with professional results, you can find it cheaper, if that's what you are looking for".


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## Swampsquash (Oct 25, 2014)

So for anyone who cares....I ballparked a 250-300 price depending on time for the shed removal and was told oh wow thats alot. LOL So it doesn't look like that will happen. Its less then I want to do the job. But if I can make 300 on my day off then that a win, plus if it is really a 3yr old hive and hasn't swarmed recently, then I could make splits and sell them for more profit....eventually. Oh well maybe they'll get lucky and find someone willing to do it for free lol


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

I haven't had a single person desire to take the next step when I tell them it's going to be "at least" $250 and I will only cut it apart like it were my own house... but not make any additional repairs.
That's fine by me... I have almost no desire to do a cutout. It's so much cheaper and easier just to grow your own bees.

Now if it's 4' off the ground hanging off someone's deck I'd probably do it. The guys doing it professionally like Mr. Beeman deserve every dollar they get from their work.


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## challenger (May 27, 2009)

I do maybe 10 removals a year. Most are for homeowners and, if asked, I do the entire job. I get about the same as other folks here that do these. There is only one other full service guy around here and he is an unscrupulous thief. His rep precedes him. He subs out everything except the bee hive part and his rates are robbery. 
I am looking for advice on the wording of a contract??? In the past its been all verbal on a "handshake". This isn't the way to do business I know but it's all been very small scale so I rationalized this shortcoming. I also don't have insurance. I make this clear before starting. I've priced insurance and the cost is so high that I've never gotten a policy. What are people paying and what category are these policies being written for? The last stumbling I've come across is removals for large companies. I've been stiffed one time because the company Jersey around with me and told me that the work order was not submitted blah blah blah. Folks want timely removal for fear of stings, liability etc but when it came to paying it was too much trouble.
I think I need to get more legit or stay lower under the radar. Yes there are risks but everything is a risk and closing who to work for help a little I guess. 
Thanks.


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## mike17l (Jun 22, 2012)

challenger said:


> I've priced insurance and the cost is so high that I've never gotten a policy. What are people paying and what category are these policies being written for? The last stumbling I've come across is removals for large companies. I've been stiffed one time because the company Jersey around with me and told me that the work order was not submitted blah blah blah. Folks want timely removal for fear of stings, liability etc but when it came to paying it was too much trouble.
> I think I need to get more legit or stay lower under the radar. Yes there are risks but everything is a risk and closing who to work for help a little I guess.
> Thanks.


Contact Al Ford at TxIns.com [email protected] He is based in Wharton, TX. He does a great job working with beekeepers. I think its 2 mil in liability, covers bee yards, honey sales, removals, ect. Policy is good until you gross over $200K in the business. Cost depends on state and underwriters, but runs $4-800/year. Use me name as a reference if you would like, Michael Leidner, Orange Grove, TX.

Get an accounting program (quick books is easy and cheap). Submit estimates and invoices. You will have documentation to take companies to court. Additionally, I have found that the businesses that need removal services, require insurance. The cost of the insurance is covered by two removals for me. 

If people don't want to pay, I simply say "no problem, call me if you need me". The fact is, they have not yet had a "crisis moment". They will have one (at least in South Texas) and they will call, and they will pay. I accept credit cards, which helps these customers out.


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## challenger (May 27, 2009)

Thanks. I will contact him.


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## dixiebooks (Jun 21, 2010)

Swampsquash said:


> Out of curiosity how do you determine what you charge someone? I find everyone thinks it should be free lol


I'll do one for 250 but it would have to be rather simple. Most of mine are between 500 and 600. As for the people who think it should be free: I try to educate them on why they need someone who knows what they are doing. For example: construction experience (so things don't get torn up/destroyed needlessly and the contractor doing the repair will have an easier job, thus cheaper for the property owner), removal experience, completely remove the comb and clean up the space and not leave the property a mess, the crazy amount of money I have tied up in tools and equipment, etc. If they insist it should be free I ask what they do for a living and would they be willing to do that for me at no charge. I also explain why they don't want to spray the bees because of the mess that will cause with the result being costly repair bills - far above what I would have charged for the removal.


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## Swampsquash (Oct 25, 2014)

dixiebooks said:


> I'll do one for 250 but it would have to be rather simple. Most of mine are between 500 and 600. As for the people who think it should be free: I try to educate them on why they need someone who knows what they are doing. For example: construction experience (so things don't get torn up/destroyed needlessly and the contractor doing the repair will have an easier job, thus cheaper for the property owner), removal experience, completely remove the comb and clean up the space and not leave the property a mess, the crazy amount of money I have tied up in tools and equipment, etc. If they insist it should be free I ask what they do for a living and would they be willing to do that for me at no charge. I also explain why they don't want to spray the bees because of the mess that will cause with the result being costly repair bills - far above what I would have charged for the removal.


Yeah thats alot of what I go through when people call me. 3 calls this week and nobody was interested. My fave was today. A older european woman called me basically begging me to remove them for free. LOL Telling me shes retired and has very little income and not to mention is a hour away up the highway. I'm like maam my truck doesn't run for free and I don't have anyone paying my mortgage, electricity or water bills for free. She has a legit 1k+ job. They are coming out of a vent on the second story. All work would have to be done from a very tall ladder(scaffolding would be better) and siding, etc would have to be removed and then replaced and put back together. Seriously a multiple day project. I knew quickly this isn't something I want to try to do esp when she said she wants one price no hourly add ons or more money if it bigger then expected. Can't do it...Won't know what I'm dealing with until I take the lid off the can of worms. The lady was literally almost crying about this whole thing. Just don't get why people think a beekeeper should bend over backwards and be thrilled to remove them for free lol.


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## DJS (May 7, 2012)

I charge $80 to $100 per hour and I keep the bees I do this as a part time job. Most people don't compline to much when you tell them the process and what it takes. Hear in Arkansas you have to be licensed by the state and carry insurance to charge and remove bees, but starting in July you have to have an exterminator License to remove bees. This comes with additional cost for insurance, bonding, and fees to the state. There is some people that do it for free once or twice and some that charge but don't carry the license which makes it hard for the ones that try to do it the right way. They few of us that are currently license not planning to renew our license. I only do about 30 to 40 removals a year, not sure who is going to pick up these removals but sure someone will.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

Swampsquash said:


> Out of curiosity how do you determine what you charge someone? I find everyone thinks it should be free lol


Everyone has the right to think what they want. But removals are anything but free. About 80 dollars in hive equipment, gas, use of a vehicle in general, time, knowledge as well as outright ability to get them. Bees in a house is damage to that house. I consider it a repair more than anything.


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## mike17l (Jun 22, 2012)

What kills me is the cash guys. I start at $250, then charge $50/hr. The bees I deal with are likely aggressive (south Texas), some are highly aggressive. I have insurance, equipment, truck, fuel, permitting, ect costs. The cash guys have none of these costs. I try to explain that I am the only legitimate business operating in the area, everyone else is cash only and will not be there in the future. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Many of them just care about cost and are looking to get it for free. Sometimes I offer to let them mow my lawn for free, heck they will get vitamin D that they need, so they should be more than willing to do it. I usually end the conversation with, "you can find someone to do it cheaper, if that's what you are looking for," again, some realize what I am saying, others not so much. It's ok, the state and feds are catching up with the cash guys, even if I have to direct them. With the cash guys out of the way, I will be able to raise my rates to what they should be.


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## jbeshearse (Oct 7, 2009)

It's not just your time, equipment and bee expertise they are purchasing. You also have to factor in your construction experience. Someone with little experience can easily cost the homeowner more in additional repair work than the removal costs. Easily.


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## mike17l (Jun 22, 2012)

jbeshearse said:


> It's not just your time, equipment and bee expertise they are purchasing. You also have to factor in your construction experience. Someone with little experience can easily cost the homeowner more in additional repair work than the removal costs. Easily.


Absolutely!!


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