# Supers on small cell brood boxes.



## Tulipwood (Jul 16, 2006)

Is it okay to use regular cell size for the honey supers if you have brood boxes of small cell and fully regressed small cell bees below?


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## Janice Lane (Feb 5, 2006)

It's ok...but my queen keeps laying in the supers so I decided to put small cell in them as well.


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## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

Janice

have you gotten them to draw them out yet?
if so, how did they do?
it seems to me it's kind of a double edged sword
on the good side if you have all SC throughout the hive you get total interchangeability
on the downside they may just rework it in the supers into ugly LC comb
also, if they draw it right, each comb will consist of more wax and less honey
small cells = more cells = more wax = less honey
a small difference but one worth noting
I think I'm going to go with regular foundation in the supers
this is my first year having to seriously think about this issue

Dave


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## Janice Lane (Feb 5, 2006)

I tried to put in in the middle of the brood they were raising. However, as you said, they did re-work some of it to large cell. This is the first year I've tried it...I'll keep you updated on the results.


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

Kelley Co. sells a foundation they call 7/11. It is bigger than regular-cell but smaller than drone. "They" say the queen doesnt like to lay in it. I have it in all my honey supers. In 4 seasons, queen laid one time, an area about 1" high x 6" long, in bottom of one frame.

Using "normal" beekeeper logic, I'd say it works fine


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

7/11 makes great cut comb too.  I've used 7/11 since about 1975 and have always liked it. If you don't have enough drone comb in the brood nest sometimes the queen will lay a little patch of drone in it, but not usually, and not if there is enough drone in the brood nest.


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## hummingberd (Aug 26, 2006)

Michael, what's 7/11?


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## Tulipwood (Jul 16, 2006)

*What kind of small cell?*

Okay. What kind of small cell did you use?

Roger


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Michael, what's 7/11?

http://go.netgrab.com/secure/kelleystore/asp/product.asp?product=114


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## Bryanaw40 (Jun 11, 2006)

*7/11 for honey supers*



Michael Bush said:


> 7/11 makes great cut comb too.  I've used 7/11 since about 1975 and have always liked it. If you don't have enough drone comb in the brood nest sometimes the queen will lay a little patch of drone in it, but not usually, and not if there is enough drone in the brood nest.



Michael,
Do you use the 7/11 where you have small cell or natural cell brood chambers? I am starting some small cell bees started from five fram nucs and a bit confused about what to do in the with the honey supers. Do I put small cell, 7/11 or go natural cell in these new honey supers? 

Thanks,
bryan
Ortonville, MI


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## BWrangler (Aug 14, 2002)

Hi Guys,

Using larger cell size comb above the smaller sized broodnest core is certainly Ok. It's a closer mimic to a natural broodnest structure.

>It's ok...but my queen keeps laying in the supers so I decided to put small cell in them as well.

That's a curious fact that I noticed when my bees were in all small cell size hives. I excluded a super of clean, large cell honey on as feed. And all my small cell queens pushed through the excluders and preferred the larger cell comb to lay in during early midsummer. I put them back below the excluders where there was plenty of room to lay and they went through the excluders again. I think it's part of the natural cycle comprising seasonal behavior changes that key off, or are complimented by, the broodnest structure.

It was thought at that time, that a small cell queen would lay drone brood in those larger worker cells. Not so. It was wall to wall worker brood. Bee behavior is much more complicated than the over simplified concepts associated with a single cell size whether large or small.

So, I pulled the excluders out and let the queens have their freedom. They preferred to lay in the larger cell size during the summer. They would utilize all sizes but preferred the larger size. By summers end, the queens focus was back in the small cell size comb.

At that time, I thought I might have wrecked the small cell behavior of those hives by having all those large cell sized bees hatching out of the large cell comb. I went to observe those large cell bees hatching out and to record the size difference between them and the smaller cell sized bees in the same hive. Guess what, there wasn't any visible difference in bee size!

Beekeepers with all large cell comb are quite surprised by the changes in colony behavior when the bees are given small cell comb. The same happens to small cell beekeepers who give there all small cell hives some large cell comb. The bees, in both cases, behave in some unexpected ways as they attempt to behave naturally in an artificial broodnest structure.

It's not a single comb size or bee size that's optimum for the bees. They build a variety of cell sizes which are incorporated into a broodnest structure. And this structure compliments the seasonal needs necessary for a healthy, thriving colony.

So don't sweat it. As long as the comb is clean, use it. Just make sure you give them a small cell sized core to overwinter on.

Regards
Dennis


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Do you use the 7/11 where you have small cell or natural cell brood chambers?

I have not used any since I went to small cell. But I used it up until then with good results.

> I am starting some small cell bees started from five fram nucs and a bit confused about what to do in the with the honey supers. Do I put small cell, 7/11 or go natural cell in these new honey supers? 

Any of those will work.


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## Tulipwood (Jul 16, 2006)

*7/11*

I am new and I have to give Michael Bush credit for most of what I have learned this year about small cell and beekeeping in the past year. 

Based on all that I read on MB's website I decided to with go to all medium frames this year. I would like to use 7/11 in my honey supers after being alerted to them here. But I when to the Kelley website and there seem to be so many different choices. Any recommendations as to what kind of medium frame to buy and what kind of 7/11 to put it in?

Roger


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Any recommendations as to what kind of medium frame to buy and what kind of 7/11 to put it in?

What kind of frame do you have now? They have what frame it fits in listed on Kelley's site.


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