# SHB, tell me this isn't



## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

I would say yes, and I dont feed pollen patties this time of year because I have been told that they are beetle magnets. A strong hive should be able to handle the beetles. Although there are several traps available. I find it strange that you can go through the hive and not see any but have larvae in the patty. I always see a couple at least when i go thru the hives. i just squash them They will become a problem on uncovered frames of honey and pollen from what I gather. Someone will chime in with more knowledge, i am just trying to share what I little I have learned, so take it with a grain of salt. Good Luck. G


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

It's SHB larvae. You've removed the pollen patty, that's good. You could buy some beetle blaster traps, place them and monitor to see how bad the beetles are in your area (now that you have them).


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## vdotmatrix (Apr 5, 2014)

Don't despair..you don't have to remove your pollen patties especially if your bees need them right now. Simply put out a smaller , much smaller slice of patty that they can eat in a day or a few days or so.....Beetle blaster traps are ok I like the beetle jails that are baitable and reusable ....good luck


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

you could also feed dry pollen


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

I will tell you it isnt!!! But then honestly it really is!!!


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

SHB hitchhike up north in packages and nucs. It only takes a few and they hide very well. Besides that, the beetles can fly in from a mile or two away. Your best defense is maintaining a strong colony in a moderately consolidated environment so the bees can keep them corralled. 

The nice thing about being up in the northern states is that the cold winters tend to knock the beetles back to square one in the spring. I really have empathy for our southern comrades who battle them year round.


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

I don't have small hive beetles here, but I do get wax moths larva in pollen patties if the hive or nuc is on the weak side, and that's about what it looks like. Then there is patty crumbles on the solid bottom board floor with wax moth larva also. I clean it all out, shake in some more nurse bees or move in frames with bees from other hives, and reduce the amount of pollen patty to give. This time of year, it's varroa mites and wax moths that can be a problem here.


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

I battled them this year in south Arkansas and I have never seen them like I have this year.I have opened some hives this year and found them by the hundreds under the the top.oil trays is what I have found the best defense against them.I have also found that you dont need a full screened bottom with an oil tray.Beetles are edge runners.Open a hive and look at them in the bottom.They run back and forth along the edge of the bottom boards.Also most of the ones you see on top will go the the bottom board when you open the hive.I had bottom boards with a couple holes in the bottom screened for beetles to go down into and fall into the oil tray and they worked good.Looking at all the beetles following the back edges of the bottom board I started to just make a smaller opening along the bottom edge on the bottom board.I used #8 hardware cloth with a plastic sandwich tray under the bottom and painted it black with oil in it.This worked even better than a full screened bottom board with tray.I will try and get some pics.Another person on here does the same thing but used Avion in his tray.I cant recall who it was right now and he does good also.I have caught beetles by the thousands this year.


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## frustrateddrone (Jan 31, 2015)

Bees go out and forage naturally. You have created problems with attracting things you don't want in bee hives. The negative VS the positives is one way to look at it. Make a list and make a determination and you'll probably come to the conclusion that Pollen Patties are not a good thing.. I take it your going into Fall like conditions and you probably have lots of flowers and trees in bloom. 1:1 sugar would probably be better. Protein is consumed by the younger nurse bees from what I read. Your nights are chilly, so your bees probably won't be at the top of the hive eating the pollen patties for the 11 to 12 hours they're in the hive. During the day your bees that forage are not at the top of the bee hive either. The bees that are out foraging are coming back and doing what? They are not storing food, they're handing it off to the worker bees I suspect. Meaning the bees that would eat pollen patties is few because they don't have time to go up. Just a theory is all I am stating. If you have brood your bees are keeping it at 92 to 94 degrees, so going up to eat a pollen patty isn't likely either. 

1 very interesting thing I just recently did learn about pollen stores. I have a hive that has a weak queen. She won't mark new frames in the brood chamber for cell building, so they just sit with only 10 to 20% of wax on the empty foundations. I took 2 frames of honey from the brood chamber and processed them cause these frames are the only ones she will build on. These are the original 5 nuc frames I got when I bought my Nuc. I scraped the honey off and 1 side had probably 70% pollen stores. I could not see that because I only saw waxed capped frames. Amazing. The box up top that is honey stores are all honey no brood and it took them forever to draw out 4 frames. They have 6 frames drawn out now. WHat the point is, just because you don't see pollen doesn't mean your bees are lacking pollen.

It's hard to trust in your bees, but your bees know better then you do I suspect.


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## BeeMoose (Oct 19, 2013)

Yes, SHB. You did the right thing in removing the pollen patty. They are definitely SHB magnets. I lost a hive in SE Ohio around June to these menaces. The County Apiarist reported
small amounts of SHB in our area. Guess they all swarmed to my hive.
I waited to long to take action and they ran the colony out of the hive.
I have started using Bee Blasters and will be trying some beetle bottom boards next spring.

I had to take all of the frames from the hive they infested, freeze them for 4 plus days(Yes some of the larva lived through a 48 hour freeze) then scrape the comb from the frames, as
it was rendered unusable.

Good Luck.


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## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

Pollen patties main purpose in the hive is to feed SHB. Pollen can be open fed without causing robbing. That way the SHB's don't have an engraved invitation to the hive.


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

Use beetle blasters or whatever you can get. Have had real good luck using cider vinegar and corn oil in them. 

Slide your hive tool around the base before you try moving a beetle blaster. They get stuck down pretty good.
The hard part is remembering to put them back in after an inspection. I set them aside and forget nearly every time. Be real careful about spilling oil. It will kill bees by smothering them just like the beetles.


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## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

aunt betty said:


> Use beetle blasters or whatever you can get. Have had real good luck using cider vinegar and corn oil in them.
> 
> Slide your hive tool around the base before you try moving a beetle blaster. They get stuck down pretty good.
> The hard part is remembering to put them back in after an inspection. I set them aside and forget nearly every time. Be real careful about spilling oil. It will kill bees by smothering them just like the beetles.


I have to use a Freeman style bottom board with a tray because I am too clumsy for beetle blasters.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

Its hard to tell from the pictures, but they look too large to be SHB, so my vote goes with Ray Marler as wax moths. Did you see any adult beetles? You almost always see them together, so go back and look for little black beetles. 

I agree with others that pollen patties in the Fall is tricky business. I totally avoid them these days.


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## mobees77 (Aug 13, 2015)

I am in the deep south, I have hives at one yard that receives full sunlight throughout the day and my other yard is shaded about the last 1/3 of the day, my hives in full sun rarely have more than a couple of beetles per hive and the other yard typically has 4 or 5 to a dozen.


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## julieandwadeshelton (Oct 10, 2014)

Freeman or west traps under sbb. There is a lot less area around the bottom edges for them to corral together. I'm on the way to recovery from a bunch of beetles. Tried beetle jail traps.. barely a couple caught. You will sleep easier at night if you bite the bullet and buy a good bottom board trap.


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

Beetles were whipping me in one out yard till I started using oil trap bottom boards.They are edge runners and I made some with half size oil trays and some with small oil trays.I have found that you dont need a full size bottom tray.You only need one where the screen is against the edge.Open the lid and those on top run to the bottom and along the edges back and forth and the go right into the oil trap.No I only use the small oil traps.You dont even need the long like the one in the pic.Just an area where they can run the edge and fall into the oil trap.


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## GaryG74 (Apr 9, 2014)

Those are the largest "SHB larva" I've ever seen. I agree with ray, Wax moth larva. The SHB larva I see around here are only about 1/2" long, at most. Those look longer than 1/2".


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## Dominic (Jul 12, 2013)

GaryG74 said:


> Those are the largest "SHB larva" I've ever seen. I agree with ray, Wax moth larva. The SHB larva I see around here are only about 1/2" long, at most. Those look longer than 1/2".


Could be neither.


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## popeye (Apr 21, 2013)

Thanks for pics snapper1d


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

You are welcome Popeye.Those are SHB larvae.Note the difference in color.Wax moth larvae tend to be darker.The first pic are hive beetle larvae.The second pic are wax moth larvae.


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

I have seen wm larvae whiter than the pic shown, but generally, from what I have seen they do seem to have a darker hue. G


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## kengineer (Jul 4, 2015)

I have seen neither moths or beetles, I installed many beetle traps yesterday and should know soon, but can't there be some benevolent maggot instead of the SHB?


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

So far SHB and wax moth larvae.SHB wiggle like maggots.Wax moth larvae have a strait line move movement like caterpillars.


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