# Crisco and Sugar and Tracheal Mites



## davedan (Aug 26, 2010)

I was at the local science museum and there was a display on tracheal mites in honey bees and it said that the cure was feeding the bees Crisco mixed with powdered sugar. The crisco kills the mites but not the bees. I was curious if anyone had tried this?


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## papamoose (Apr 7, 2010)

Yes it is used for tracheal mites.

If you have "BeeKeeping for Dummies" there is a recipe for such which is:
1 1/2 lbs Shortening
4 lbs granulated sugar
1/2 lb honey
Optional 1/3 cup mineral salt orange/brown kind from farm supply store

Mix into a smooth patty and make 1/2 dozen patties.

Keep frozen until ready for use.

Optional 1.5 oz winter green essential oil. (Not to be used during honey production) Many believe the essential oils have other beneficial effects on things like mites and beetles.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

'Extender patties' used to be a common method to control tracheal mites. The crisco didn't kill the mites directly but it acted as a reproductive disruptant. The mites needed to find young bees so that they could complete their life cycle. The mites were able to distinguish older and younger bees by their smell (pheromones?). When the bees were covered with crisco, the mites couldn't tell young bees from older bees and often were unable to complete a reproductive cycle.....at least that's how I understood it.


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## Countryboy (Feb 15, 2009)

Are tracheal mites a problem in your area? Many beekeepers are finding that breeding has virtually reduced tracheal mites to a non-issue.

The State Apiary Inspector told our club this summer that Ohio had 3 confirmed cases of tracheal mites. That's it. No one treats for it, and it has been reduced to a non-issue.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Now that most everyone finally quite treating for them, tracheal mites have become mostly a non-issue...


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

So what happened to them? Where did they come from? Where did they go? Did their populations bloom because of some certain set of conditions and those conditions have changed? 

Cause and effect Michael? Tracheal mites disappeared because people stopped treating? They stopped treating because another mite appeared, right? And treatments didn't work, right?

It's a mystery to me. Are there answers?

To the author: Don't sweat it. You probably don't have tracheal mites anyway.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>So what happened to them?

Brother Adam proved many years ago that you could breed for Tracheal mite resistance. Of course if everyone quits treating you ARE breeding for tracheal mite resistance.

> Where did they come from?

The scientists are convinced that Acarapis dorsalis and Acarapis externus (mites that live on the outside of honey bees that are indistinguishable from Tracheal mites) made an evolutionary leap and became Acarapis woodi (Tracheal mites). Dee Lusby is convinced of the same except instead of an evolutionary leap, she believes first thoracic spiracle was enlarged enough by going to large cell to allow the mites to get in, causing the "leap". They still have to chew their way in as the spiracle is too small and to do so they must find a young bee with soft chitin that they can chew through.

> Where did they go?

A lot of them die from all of the many acaracides being used, but some are still around. The people who test for them keep bees that are susceptible so they can inoculate bees to see if they get them.

> Did their populations bloom because of some certain set of conditions and those conditions have changed? 

Yes, the conditions changed. Hives are full of acaracides... but also the susceptible bees died


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Michael Bush said:


> Now that most everyone finally quite treating for them, tracheal mites have become mostly a non-issue...


Or possibly tracheal mites are a non issue so everyone has stopped treating? In any case they are like soooo 1990, today we have so many more exciting new diseases to worry about, hmmmm wonder what is next now that nosema ceranae seems to be falling out of vogue.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

jim lyon said:


> nosema ceranae seems to be falling out of vogue.


I thought that it seemed that way too. I tried to get an idea what others are finding, but the Thread went no where.


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## fat/beeman (Aug 23, 2002)

hello
I am on small cell there for bees are smaller t mites can't enter smaller treachea.
the mite have stayed same size but bees are small==no t mites.
putting Crisco into hives seem to invite SHB's more so then not using the patty's 
Don


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## dthompson (Feb 10, 2008)

>They still have to chew their way in as the spiracle is too small and to do so they must >find a young bee with soft chitin that they can chew through.

Err no, it's the guard hairs (around spiracle) that are soft in a young bee
After 7-10d they harden enough that the TM have a lot of trouble getting past

>> Did their populations bloom because of some certain set of conditions and those conditions have changed? 

TM can still be a problem, mostly poor wintering
The most susceptable have been eliminated 
A badly infected hive can have bees with >100 TM in each spiracle
These can be strong productive hives, just with poor survival
Formic is very effective in eliminating TM, for a short time, 
until drifting causes re-infection

dave


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

dthompson said:


> TM can still be a problem, mostly poor wintering


Anyone thinking that TM has disappeared and is a minor problem everywhere should talk to the Maine inspector. He's been telling me there has been a big spike in TM problems for Maine bee keepers over the last couple years.


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## Countryboy (Feb 15, 2009)

Aren't you the guy who tells people that if they raise queens from their strongest overwintered colonies, in 3-5 years tracheal mites will have become a minor pest at the most?


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

You bet, and I still think it's true. That doesn't mean we don't have to keep on top of things. I haven't seen the resurgence in my bees, although I still see some K wing. 

But consider...where do the majority of bees used in Maine come from? Not from locally raised locally adapted breeder queens that are the best and strongest colonies in the spring. They come from southern packages that aren't selected for anything but raising more packages...like your packages...how did they winter?

Resistance to any disease or parasite will only be maintained by pressure from that disease or parasite. With TM, when you stop selecting from your best wintering colonies, you stop selecting for TM resistance, whether it's there or not.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

I won't argue that stock from overwintered hives will produce a hardier northern bee than a southern package I would question that TM is any more of a northern than a southern problem. As a migratory beekeeper it seems, at times that a move to a warmer climate can even speed up the decline of smaller hives I assume because of the unproductive flights that occur.


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## Countryboy (Feb 15, 2009)

_They come from southern packages that aren't selected for anything but raising more packages...like your packages...how did they winter?_

I know. I know. Winter isn't over yet either. If I don't have more losses I'll be greatly surprised.

I haven't seen any evidence of tracheal mites or K wing though.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

jim lyon said:


> As a migratory beekeeper it seems, at times that a move to a warmer climate can even speed up the decline of smaller hives I assume because of the unproductive flights that occur.


I can see that happening. Up here, TMessed up bees exit in onesies and twosies until the colony is depleated. With unproductive flights they exit en masse. 

But I also think that bees taken south can raise brood and if the infestation isn't too severe, new bees emerging will help rebuild the cluster. Correct me if I'm wrong as I don't and wouldn't take my bees south. 

In my apiaries, the bees are confined for months at a time with no cleansing flights and no brood rearing. Doesn't take TM long to destroy a colony. So, I feel that with a severe winter I have a better chance of finding good breeder queens that are resistant to TM than if I took them south. 

Honestly, I wonder why the southern package/queen producers don't work with their northern customers in selection. Wouldn't it be to the producers advantage to buy back queens that have wintered with strong healthy clusters?


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Good points all MP, I would describe what happens in southern climes as speeding up the whole process. They decline a bit quicker but certainly get "on the grow" much earlier as well. Perhaps you have hit on something, find yourself a good southern queen breeder and work with them on a "Vermont line" of bees for the early queen market. Hmmmm guess there would have to be something in it for you as well.


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## tech.35058 (Jul 29, 2013)

Thiss appears to be an old thread but i have a problem now.
i have 4 nuc hives in my home yard. One was really looking good. I moved to a larger box. After a week or so noted a decline. Lots of dead bees. (This hive was started with a purchased vsh-italian queen..) now there are probably less than 2000 bees left,& no brood but the queen is still there. It is late september. I see no k- wing,no feces in the hive..the bees are storing sugar syrup in combbs, but have no pollen. Since i cant se any thing wrong with the individual bees, but when i open the hive there are very few flying bees. I am guessing tracheal mites. I dont know whether to try to.treat them, or kill them off before this spreads.to.my.other colonies. To kill off, how? Can i safely feed the stores to other bees? Should i burn the wooden ware? To treat,, how? This hiveî is on a screen bottom board. Thanks.for any advice or comments.
Buti


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I haven't met anyone who was treating for tracheal mites in ages... If you want to know if you have them get a microscope. It doesn't take a really powerful one. Dissect some bees' tracheae...


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