# Snakes by my hives good or bad?



## Cz's Beez (Jan 13, 2006)

I have at least 1 maybe 2 snakes that have been frequenting my hives. While I was out watching the bees last night one came from under the pallet the hives stand on and was "checking" my weakest hive. (It was a very small swarm) As I watched it it looked like he was going to grab one of the guard bees. So snakes eat bees? Oh by the way this is a garden variety snake about 18" long. Are they good to have around? Im not sure if this snake can kill a mouse it is not poisonous.Shall I try to kill this bad boy or leave it alone??


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## LaRae (Apr 29, 2005)

Snakes don't need to be posionous to kill a mouse etc.

Some snakes do eat insects but I wouldn't think they would eat enough bees to be of a concern.

I'd rather put up with the snake than with the mice etc.


LaRae


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Good. They will probably keep the mice away. I have lots of gardner (garter?) snakes in my yard. They don't seem to cause any harm. Most aren't big enough to eat mice. I wish I had some bull snakes or rat snakes...


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## jdagpatton (Apr 4, 2006)

I wouldnt worry about snakes around your hives. Some small snakes eat insects but wont eat enough bees to do any harm. They will eat your mice though.......even garter snakes. I have found small garter smakes with huge toads in their mouths, so a mouse wont be much of a problem. I would encourage any non-poisonous snake to live near my hives and my home. I have a huge black racer that moved in a few weeks ago and has basically eradicated the mice hanging around my chickens (the chickens are too big to be a meal for a snake).


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

<<<<Are they good to have around?<<<<

Yes, they are more good than I can write about on this page. Keep your helpful snakes and rid yourself of many harmful pests, or kill them and allow the dangerous and destructive critters to live.


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## wayacoyote (Nov 3, 2003)

Without reciting everyone else's posts, I'll say that I'm jealous that you have a snake.
Waya


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## IndianaHoney (Jun 5, 2006)

jdagpatton wrote:
"I have a huge black racer that moved in a few weeks ago and has basically eradicated the mice hanging around my chickens (the chickens are too big to be a meal for a snake)."

I would make sure this is not what the south calls a chicken snake. They will eat your eggs. I've heard of blue racers, but never heard of a black racer. My grandpa use to catch and kill chicken snakes in the hen house when I was a kid. I think they are poisenous, you might want to check before going after it.


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## LaRae (Apr 29, 2005)

Actually Rat snakes are often called chicken snakes...and they are non-posionous.

Racer snakes can be blue or black or even striped and they are not poisonous.


LaRae


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## buz (Dec 8, 2005)

No snakes-- but one of my colonies has a Scorpion for a mascot. It moves in and out with ease.......been around all season.


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## IndianaHoney (Jun 5, 2006)

LaRae, I don't think I have ever seen a rat snake. What my grandpa called a chicken snake was one that he killed when I was a kid. It was about 5-6 feet long, and had a blue stripe down it's back. He may have been calling a black racer a chicken snake.


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## Apuuli (May 17, 2006)

Black racers are very long slender snakes that are totally black with no stripes except for gray chins. They often carry their heads up so the chin is more easily seen than you might expect. They are also extraordinarily fast. It's a very suiting name. Rat snakes are also called chicken snakes, but with common names, anything could be called anything. Like gophers in Florida are called salamanders.


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## Hi-Tech (May 1, 2006)

<<<<<<<I wish I had some bull snakes or rat snakes...>>>>>>>
MB, be careful what you wish for. I have an old barn that had a lot of rats. i wished for a solution and got more than I bargained for..... We killed 12 rattlesnakes on my 10 acres last year and 3 so far this year.... I know snakes are natures rat killers but.... I still don't like them...


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

<<<< I know snakes are natures rat killers but.... I still don't like them... <<<<

You probably killed your kingsnakes and ratsnakes a few years ago and left the area open for rats and venomous snakes. If you had 2 or 3 large kingsnakes or ratsnakes around, they would remove both the rats and venomous snakes.

IndianaHoney, There are many rat snakes. All non-venomous. There are red rats, green rats, yellow rats, and the world famous black rat, aka: chicken snake, black snake, black racer, ETC.
They may eat one egg for every 100 rats they eat. A small price to pay for the good they do. in my opinion. Also, no snake is poisonous, not even a rattler. They are venomous. The meat of a snake can be safely eaten, therefore not poisonous. They inject venom, therefore venomous.
To all>>>>If you kill all snakes, you remove the snake eating snakes, which are less secretive than the venomous ones, and more easily found, leaving the area open for the venomous ones which are much more secretive and have a better chance of surviving. If you leave the kingsnakes and blacksnakes alone, they will take care of the venomous ones.


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## jdagpatton (Apr 4, 2006)

They can eat all the eggs they want. I have ducks and chickens, so plenty of eggs. I end up throwing eggs out all the time. I havent seen a venomous snake on my property yet.....although I am sure I have both copperheads and rattlesnakes. So far I have just seen black rat, black racers, and rough green snakes. 
I do have tons of black widow spiders. I can go out and turn any board or brick and almost alway find them.......and they are huge!!!! Kinda creeps me out a little, the population density is just so high.


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## Tia (Nov 19, 2003)

I've got tons of snakes. Chicken snakes, black snakes and these little garden snakes that live underground. When I was pulling out the pea plants to put in beans, I kept pulling snakes out of the ground! The other night one of the bigger black snakes left a shed skin across the path I take to the veggie garden. No mice or voles by me and so far chickens and eggs have been unmolested. I just hope they leave my toads alone! I've also got a box turtle that feeds from my compost heap and a lizard that's taken up residence in hive #3. I still haven't figured out why the girls don't evict him, but they just come and go around him while he sits on the landing board soaking up the sun!


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

What breed of ducks or geese are the best layers?

Be thankful for your non-poisonous snakes and do everything you can to keep them around and populated. I've been bitten by a copper head at a friends house whom is infested with them. I'd like to take a truck load of black snakes up there to run those copper heads out. One night they saw about 12 in various places around the campfire.


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## IndianaHoney (Jun 5, 2006)

"They inject venom, therefore venomous"

Ya, don't I know! When I was 12 I lived in Ok. I was bitten on the left calf by a rattler. I was small and spent three weeks in the hospital. Thats what I get for going snake hunting with my dad.


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## jdagpatton (Apr 4, 2006)

I am not sure which ducks and geese lay best. I have both muscovy ducks and blue swedish ducks. Both seem to lay about the same....one egg every day. I do know that muscovies are the best sitters and brooders. My in-laws had two muscovy nest last year each hatching out twenty some ducklings. Muscovies will actually steal eggs and duckling from other ducks and raise them. My blue swedish dont seem to be interested in the eggs........they just lay them and abandon them.


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## Aspera (Aug 1, 2005)

I am also jealous of your snakes. Too much traffic near my hives have eliminated the local snakes.


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## LaRae (Apr 29, 2005)

Khaki Campbell ducks are the top egg laying duck....almost equaling a white leghorn chicken.

They are a smallish duck and a bit higher strung and nosiy but neat to have around and they lay alot of eggs which are EXCELLENT for using in baking!


LaRae


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## mac (May 1, 2005)

Hello Apuuli I live in Fl. but I can't say as I have ever heard a gopher referred to as a salamander. Are ya talking about a gopher turtle or a gopher gopher or is this something that y'all use down in hog town.


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## Apuuli (May 17, 2006)

Hey mac,

I just don't know why they changed the name of Hogtown to Gainesville. It just doesn't have the same ring...

So here's the low-down:
gopher tortoises are called gophers

gophers are called salamanders (a corruption of "sandy-mounders")

Salamanders are called spring-lizards

glass lizards are called grass snakes

And that's as far as I've gotten in the lingo...

And everyone thought the hanging chad was confusing!!!


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## jdagpatton (Apr 4, 2006)

My blue swedish ducks are extremely noisy when they want food. They used to drive me crazy. We now let them free-range on about 2 acres we fenced in for the dogs.....they now run around eating grass and insects and leave me alone. They only get noisy in the mornings when they want out of their pen (I put them up at night).


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## Cyndi (Apr 26, 2005)

I once saw a huge Copperhead get swallowed by a King Snake. Prettiest site you'd ever see,









My husband is from Nepal. Over there they feed milk to the Cobra's. They actually drink it and then leave. Once his Mother accidently shut her bedroom window on a Cobra and killed it, before she was going to bed. She found it the next morning.

I'm not sure which one is worse...the American Rattlesnake or the Asian Cobra. My husband is still not convinced that we don't have cobra's here in NC, he thought he saw one once in the river below our house, too funny,  

Anyway, I have a pond garden near one of my beehives. I'm waiting for the snakes to move into it....right now it's full of frogs.


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

"...he thought he saw one once in the river below our house, too funny, "

He probably saw a puff adder. The first one I saw really confused me. They have the cobra like "neck" or whatever you call it. They also hiss and spit and really carry on. Then if you mess with them they act like you just killed them and play dead. They are NOT poisonous, but have adapted to make you think they are, till they figure it didn't work, then they play dead.

Thanks for the duck info folks.


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

OK,
Whats the best laying Goose. 
I can't decide if I want to get ducks or geese.


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## LaRae (Apr 29, 2005)

Michael it all depends on your purpose for having them as to which one would be better.

We've raised ducks, geese and chickens.

There are pros and cons to them. 

Ducks are smaller, eat bugs and creepy crawlies however they are 'dirtier' create more messes, especially with water sources.

Geese are good sized and can be very agressive and noisier however they are grass/weed eaters and much cleaner in their personal habits. 

If you have large livestock with stock tanks you'll need to figure out a way to keep the geese/ducks out of them since they will definately foul the water and no animal will drink out of it.


LaRae


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

Thanks LaRae,

I want to raise them for eggs. And maybe, eventually sell ducks or geese.

I suppose I'm interested in geese as they are larger and I'm thinking may be easier to keep confined. We have a couple of acres fenced off with woven wire, and I'm hopeing they will stay in that. However, agressiveness will get a bird eaten around here. I like the sound of "cleaner" though. Noise will be OK, since they will be a little further away from houses.

I'm planning on putting in a kiddy pool for the ducks or geese, further away from the house. And build their "coop" or whatever they need there. I water our goats in 5 gallon buckets. Right now I have chickens and I wouldn't want anything messier than them. I'm thinking about getting ducks or geese instead of the chickens partially becuase the chickens scratch alot. They occasionally get out and scratch up our garden and the neighbors yard, which is bad.


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## LaRae (Apr 29, 2005)

Hi Michael,

Honestly I can't remember what geese are the 'best' egg layers. I'd say go over to McMurray hatchery's website and look at all their geese. If you want to get into better quality/pedigreed geese then you'll need to look at breeders as opposed to a hatchery.

We had African and White Chinese geese. We really liked the Africans..a very large goose but very friendly when hand raised. The ganders are of course more agressive and I'd say the best way to start is with a trio (gander and two geese) if you want them to hatch goslings...if you don't want them to hatch anything then go with a trio of geese with no gander. It's not just the ganders that can be agressive though ..geese by nature are a bit more assertive than ducks/chickens. 

Best thing to do is hand raise them and handle them daily....and they have memories like elephants, if someone mistreats one or does them wrong/harm they will remember and they will hold a grudge. Taking a kick at a goose to move them out of the way is never a good thing to do.

Woven wire will keep them in and a kiddie pool is a good idea but you will need to totally clean it out at least twice a week. They will foul it pretty quickly (even three) and the smell of goose poop fermenting in water is very nasty.

Keep in mind that if the geese get out on accident they can do damage to a garden. We have chickens right now and we have put up a plastic type chicken fence around the garden and it keeps them out of it.


LaRae


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

"...but you will need to totally clean it out at least twice a week"

..hmm, I wasn't figuring on this. Maybe I can just give them a seasonal kiddie pool when we have a seasonal spring running.

Thanks LaRae, you've given me some things to consider.


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

10-4, MW. The puff adder is also called hognose snake. A fun little fellow to play with. When he plays dead, you can turn him over on his belly and he will roll right back onto his back.


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## LaRae (Apr 29, 2005)

Michael if you could figure out a way to have water running thru it to keep it 'filtered' it would be great...if you had a spring that ran you could run a pipe into their kiddie pool and it would just flush out as it over flowed.

If you have younger children you might consider (if they are interested) in putting them in charge of raising the geese (FFA/4H project)...you'd have to supervise things were being done right, we did this with our kids and they had a fun time handling baby geese everyday and petting them etc, helped feed/water them also.


LaRae


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## jdagpatton (Apr 4, 2006)

I agree with alot said about ducks and geese. Geese are vegetarians and may eat plants they are not supposed to. Ducks on the other hand will eat insects (good unless it is a bee) but also plant material. My ducks are extremely messy.....they love to dig holes when they find a muddy spot. Most duck breeds are too heavy to fly, so your woven fence should keep them in. Some breeds can fly however, so check before you buy. Our muscovies fly very well (but land poorly) so we clipped their wings to keep them in our woven fence. Clipping wings is easy, although muscovies have large claws which can scratch you. On another note, muscovies are called the quackless duck becasue they hiss instead of quacking. So if you want quiet ducks, get muscovies. That is if you can stand to look at the ugly critters. We are planning to get some afican geese next year, when we have the front 3-4 acres fenced (way too many coyotes around here to risk free ranging without a fence.
Ducks and geese must have a water sources they can completely dips their heads in. Their nostrils can become clogged with dirt if they cant keep them clean. I use a kiddie pool and love to watch them swim around in it. It does get nasty quickly. I am planning a concrete pond with drain to make changing the water easier. Also, many water fowl need a pool for successful mating.


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## jim b (Oct 3, 2004)

>Topic: Snakes by my hives good or bad?<

Good.


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## Owen (Apr 28, 2006)

We have A breeding pair of king snakes or at least had them for several years arround the house. I would try and keep them by the creek that runs behind the house because one of them got run over in the road at the front of the house. They had kept the mice, rats, at bay. I had a problem with my wife from giving the young ones to her friends as pets and the cats from eating them along with the Garter snakes. So fare I have not seen any snakes by my hive. I have had a few of them in the house in the past, which freeks my wife out. One time I was at work and she called me all upset about a snake on the kitchen counter so I called a friend and had him come over and take care of the snake.

We usually have a few pair of wild ducks either nesting in the swamp accross the street or by the creek behind the house. They usually have about 10 or 12 ducklings but by the time the wild
animals and cats get done with them they are lucky to have 4 or 5 when they leave.

I have several lizards around the house but non at my hive. Would a lizard help control the hive pests like beetles and moths?

Owen


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