# Bonide vs. Burgess



## Black Creek (May 19, 2006)

i was looking online at getting a fogger since i can't seem to locate one locally. i read through some posts and see that the Burgess #1443 works, and i saw that a lot of folks use the Bonide fogger. i haven't found any posts that mention the Bonide's model #. I noticed there are a couple different ones. Anyone have that model #? any problems with the bonide? since i have to pay shipping and all, i figured i'd go with the cheaper one if it still works fine.


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## Korny's Korner (Mar 25, 2007)

*fogger*

Mine is a Bonide I've had for a couple of years. Don't see a model # on the box (still have the box????) it is called a propane insect fogger. It is red with a translucent bowl that screws to the bottom. It has given me no problems. You should be able to find one in your community. I purchased mine at Tractor Supply, you must have a farm & gardening store nearby. I like to do business in my community if possible (not a walmart shopper) locals buy a lot of my honey even trade  

Korny


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## Black Creek (May 19, 2006)

*model #*

hmmm... when i was look'n online i found a propane model # 554 and a propane model #420 and after that i just stopped looking and decided to ask on here. maybe i just misread something. i'll double check based on your description. i've checked the garden centers and they just have the burgess electric ones or the Black Flag propane ones.... not the burgess 1443 or a bonide of any type. even if the propane Black Flag will work, i just dont like the looks of it. their logo just looks like it should have a skull and crossbones on it or something. i dont like the idea of people seeing me using that thing really, looks deadly. i think that burgess either makes the black flag or vice versa, but i dont like that black one with the logo. 

thanks for the description of your's, that should help a bit.


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## Black Creek (May 19, 2006)

*bonide red & green*

ok... i did a search on Bonide #554 and #420 just now.... i dunno what the difference in performance is off hand(was just looking for photos), but the #554 is the Red one and #420 is a Green one. they both say they run off propane.


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## clintonbemrose (Oct 23, 2001)

I was just at Minards in Lansing and they have the Burges 1443 propane fogger there in the garden department. I didn't look at the price but they had stacks of them. ( I was there on a bee call but they were bald faced hornets )
Clint


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## Black Creek (May 19, 2006)

*no Minards*

yeah, i've heard of Minards ... but we don't have them around here.


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## Korny's Korner (Mar 25, 2007)

*www.bonide.com*

Still shows product in same box that I got a couple years ago.

Mosquito beater outdoor fogger. Comes with one free qt. of fogger insecticide. This the one you probably want. Your call.

Korny


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

I use the red Bonide, along with thymol in the oil. No scientific studies, no proven facts, I just like it.


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## Redneck (Oct 2, 2005)

*Fogger*

Newbeematt, I bought a Burgess Fogger at Lowes, so I feel sure there is a Lowes near you.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Here's the one I use......... works good. This bonide has free shipping. But it's $59 and I'm not sure if that's in the ball park now days.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Bonide-Propane-...ryZ75583QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

My understanding is this Black Flag.....

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-BLACK-FLAG-...ryZ10035QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

is really a Burgess dressed differently.


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## Kevin M (Aug 11, 2006)

I've had my Burgess model 1443 for about a year, works well for me.Don't recall what i paid for it, bought it online...I've only used FGMO with pure essential wintergreen, my bees made it through the first winter. Not many varroa in the draw i built under the SBB...been monitering all through the winter and early spring...


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## Black Creek (May 19, 2006)

*ordered burgess*

well.... looked around and even at the new Tractor Supply i crapped out. They said they ''should have it'' and ''would get it'' but couldnt tell me If or When they were ordered or If/When they'd get them If they were actually ordered.... the Lowe's near me didnt have a Propane fogger other than the new black flag one that Sundance pointed out. i dont know anything about foggers other than what i've read here, and i havent seen that anyone on here is using that one so i'm a bit leary of it. i ordered a burgess on ebay. i was watching both the Bonide and Burgess on there and the cheaper Bonide was sold before i got to it... they have used ones regularly on there, but i didnt feel safe fogging my girls with something that had already been full of poison before. 

thanks for all the input


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## Korny's Korner (Mar 25, 2007)

newbeematt said:


> well.... looked around and even at the new Tractor Supply i crapped out. They said they ''should have it'' and ''would get it'' but couldnt tell me If or When they were ordered or If/When they'd get them If they were actually ordered.... the Lowe's near me didnt have a Propane fogger other than the new black flag one that Sundance pointed out. i dont know anything about foggers other than what i've read here, and i havent seen that anyone on here is using that one so i'm a bit leary of it. i ordered a burgess on ebay. i was watching both the Bonide and Burgess on there and the cheaper Bonide was sold before i got to it... they have used ones regularly on there, but i didnt feel safe fogging my girls with something that had already been full of poison before.
> 
> thanks for all the input


Our local Tractor Supply has them on the self. The new ones are black now. $47


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## Black Creek (May 19, 2006)

*boiling oil? flame thrower? deep fried bees !!*

ok, my ebay burgess fogger showed up yesterday and i wanted to give it a try. i lit it and let it heat a bit. then tried it out. streams of boiling oil shot out that was giving off a bit of fog. i figured it should be pure fog so i let it sit a minute more and tried again. this time it had a bit more fog, but was still streams of boiling oil coming out with it. after a few trigger pulls out in my yard, i was effectively deep frying one particular dandelion i had targeted. so i waited a while more. then(and i was carefull to keep it level) every trigger pull became a boiling oil shooting flame thrower with pretty decent range actually, so after trying that a few more times for pure entertainment value, i shut it off and let it cool down. i wanted to get in my 1st fogging, so off to the bee yard to try again. it was late enough that the girls were all settled in. none were on the landing boards. so i started it up and pulled the trigger a few times. this time i got a lot more fog and a lot less oil. so i carefully shot it inside the hive, slowly squeezing the trigger to minimize the oil. i had a lot of wet and/or fried bees come pouring out. maybe 100 or so. then while standing there wondering how anyone manages to use this fogger, it started working perfectly ALL BY ITSELF ! billowing clouds of fog came pouring out of it nonstop with out me even touching the trigger. the entire bee yard looked like a cloud had landed on it. it slowed some, but didnt stop. eventually i just turned off the heat and it slowly stopped. 

so, my questions are..... what am i doing wrong? not waiting long enough? waiting too long for it to heat up? or have i just bought a broken "new" fogger off of ebay?


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## honeyman46408 (Feb 14, 2003)

I let mine heat up for a LONG WHILE (longer is better) while and never give it more than ONE pump at a time I never pump till it gets trough foging "ALL BY ITSELF"

Keep playing with it till you get the hang of it


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## Black Creek (May 19, 2006)

ah ok..... so what prolly happend is that it never really cooled off on the way to the bee yard(very close by) so it was working better when i tried it there, and i had loaded it up too much from pumping it too much so that when it was actually hot enough to work there was prolly a lot of oil sitting in the coil already. i was prolly keeping it from heating fully by pumping oil through it before it was ready.


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## honeyman46408 (Feb 14, 2003)

See your getting the hang of it already


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## SCBeeBrewer (Mar 17, 2007)

*Fmgo*

Where do you purchase the FMGO?

Steve


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

I ordered 5 gal. out of Chicago. Now I sell quarts to the local beeks. If you want to buy that much, I will look up the address. Most on here buy the USP grade at wal-mart or the drug store.


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## honeyman46408 (Feb 14, 2003)

http://www.steoil.com/index.asp

Or Wal Mart for small amounts


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## clintonbemrose (Oct 23, 2001)

I purchased a barrel of it from STE oil 8 years ago as per DR. Rodregaz and between use and selling some I only have 4 gallons left from the original 50 gallons. It has worked good for me just fogging. I used it alone for 5 years on 500 + hives in my polonation business before I retired and now with Thymol for the last 2 1/2 years on10 to 15 hives. It has kept me away from the harsh and toxic chemicals used for the control of mites.

Clint


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## markonsite (Dec 14, 2006)

Can someone tell me how much fog to use per hive and how often do you fog each hive?

Thanks,
Mark


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## Black Creek (May 19, 2006)

*fog'n frequency*

i've been told on here that you should take of the outer cover and fog 'em until you see some fog coming out of the top. And it seems most people on here recommend fogging once a week as general maintenance.


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## markonsite (Dec 14, 2006)

OK, thanks Matt. I'll give it a try.

Mark


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## Isle of Melifera (Apr 14, 2007)

*Inspect first Fog second?*

I am a Newbee! When fogging once a week as general maintenance would this be a good time to inspect the hive as well. Can you smoke and inspect and then fog towards the end of your inspection or does this sound like to much time manipulating them and possibly drive them to the point of irritation?

Many thanks,
Emily 




newbeematt said:


> i've been told on here that you should take of the outer cover and fog 'em until you see some fog coming out of the top. And it seems most people on here recommend fogging once a week as general maintenance.


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## Black Creek (May 19, 2006)

i dunno about that. i'm just now getting ready to do my 2nd fogging myself. but i'd would think that you'd want to have as many bees in the hive as possible when you fog, so if you were doing an ispection at the same time, there might be a lot of them out flying.


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## clintonbemrose (Oct 23, 2001)

I voften use the fogger with FGMO when inspecting hives with no problems.
Clint


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## Black Creek (May 19, 2006)

*fog flash bomb !!*

ok... when i 1st was trying to use my fogger, i got some pretty nasty boiling oil shooting out. i wrote about it on this thread a while back. since then, i've had no problems. Then yesterday, something pretty scary happened. i was going down the line, fogging each hive, doing each the same way, making sure i wasnt tipping the fogger forward. the nozzel up at the entrance, everything normal...... FWOMP ! the fog somehow ignited and a fire ball shot out the entrance. I dunno how many bees died yet, i figured i'd give them a day or two before looking, but there was at least a thousand blown out the front that were singed wingless/legless or just plain dead. I never saw the fogger flame up at all, just a ''thump'' type explosion and fire shot out the front. What did i do wrong? Am I putting the nozzle to close to the entrance? I was thinking that possibly the fog vapor as it was leaking out of the hive caught an ignition from the hot coil?? i have no idea. But that hive is most certainly queenless now, not to mention the death toll of workers. And eggs/open brood? they coulda been flash burned too.


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

I have heard of that happening with the burgess, but I have the bonide and have never seen or heard of it happening with them. I think I will stay with the Bonide.


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## clintonbemrose (Oct 23, 2001)

The burn back can happen with any fogger. It is caused by the fog blowing back to the burner and igniting. When I fog I keep the nozel about 1 foot away from the opening. I fog the opening for 5 seconds and move on. I do not remove the top of the hive but do see the fog comming out the top entrance. I make sure that I do not fog when the wind will blow the fog back at the fogger or me.
Clint


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## Black Creek (May 19, 2006)

*1 foot away*

that's where i messed up. i started putting the nozel a lot closer than i was doing before thinking that i was wasting too much fog since so much seemed to not be going in the hive. i'll back it up a bit.


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## honeyman46408 (Feb 14, 2003)

I fog at an angle and it hasnt happened to me YET, never say never!!


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## Kevin M (Aug 11, 2006)

I like my Burguss 1443 propane fogger..It has flamed up on me once, in the year I have owned it.. That was i believe from my error,to close to my rear of the hive opening,aka, a built in varroa mite tray draw..I lost my queen and a bunch of bees this past Memorial Day weekend...But,I still have a bunch of bees left,a flow is going on ( black locust, smart weed, and a little Russiian Olive,and plenty more....... I added
a 2nd super of PermsComb today (Med.Super) as the first Med.of PermaComb is already almost full.. Along with a shallow of mostly drawn comb, and a few with wax foudation on Top...I have a Queen excluder just under the top shallow...Theres a good flow going om, I want to take advantage....advise, exprthankseirance speaking,,? thanks...Kevin


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## Jeffzhear (Dec 2, 2006)

iddee said:


> I have heard of that happening with the burgess, but I have the bonide and have never seen or heard of it happening with them. I think I will stay with the Bonide.


Well I took Iddee's and others advice and purchased a Bonide. I am looking forward to using it when I get some thymol in the mail....paid for it this morning.

Now I was talking to a friend of mine yesterday who suggested that I don't treat splits by fogging since the splits typically have lower levels of mites. Thoughts?

My favorite NYS Bee Inspector, Peter Borst who is quite the beeman, inspected my hives at one of my yards yesterday. He said the mite count was 4 per hundred in one of the original hives (not split). So I am going to hit them with FGMO and thymol, starting this week for three weeks.

Anyway, I am still regressing all of my hives but it's a slower process then I anticipated...


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## aidah (May 29, 2007)

Ive read the whole thread about fogging. I'm a new bee keep and I would like to know more about the fog method. I am going to purchase a fogger and I need to know the recipe.


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=204952


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## Jeffzhear (Dec 2, 2006)

iddee said:


> http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=204952


I copied the below recipe from Iddee's link and from ClintonBemrose's post. My question is this the recipe for my Bonide?

I noticed Sundances post but his recipe's seem to be for other type foggers.

Thanks for your help in advance. I just am new to this and don't want to screw up. 



"1000cc FGMO.
Remove 100cc into sealable Mason jar.
Add 50 grams thymol crystals to reserved 100cc FGMO.
Seal jar.
Place pot with water on burner.
Place jar with FGMO/Thymol in water bath.
Slowly heat water and swirl mixture to dissolve crystals.
When crystals are dissolved completely Solution may change color to amber.
Add the remaining 900cc of FGMO and mix.
Mixture is now ready for the fogger.
Store tightly covered in the Mason jar.
Store in a cool dry place.
Use only 3 to 4 trigger squeezes per hive as needed for Varroa control

From
Dr. Pedro Rodreguz.
FGMO"


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

The recipe is for the bees, regardless of what fogger you use.


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## aidah (May 29, 2007)

You guys are amazing. The information that is exchanged here is priceless.You are all giving the planet a boost by helping each other keep bees. Thanks for the cooking lesson.


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## Ski (Jan 18, 2007)

*Beware of short lantern cylinders*

I bought a Bonide fogger and have not had any problems yet. But in reading the instructions about the typical stuff such as pre-heat for 2 minutes, do not use upside down. Failure to preheat may also clog the heater coil, damaging your fogger. The Bonide also listed in BOLD the following:

Bonide does not recommend the use of the shorter , 16 oz lantern cylinders. Lantern cylinders may cause flare ups or uncontrolled burn, particularly when the cylinder is full.

I had a short lantern cylinder already to use before I read that.


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## Jeffzhear (Dec 2, 2006)

I just fogged my hives and it doesn't get much easier then that! wow, it takes no time at all!

Thanks to all for your advice, particularily Iddee...ty.


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