# What to do with abandoned hives?



## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Welcome to Beesource!

Of course I don't _know_ why those bees absconded, but one thing that comes to mind is that litre of open honey left in the barrel. That unguarded honey may have attracted bees from elsewhere, who came to harvest (rob) that unguarded honey. Once that happened, they may have decided that your new hive was weak, and robbed that also. Your bees may have just moved on, or its possible that the activity you saw was robbers taking the honey from that hive after your bees absconded.


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## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

Welcome Lenny:

Sounds like they were just too crowded. If the comb in the lower became honey bound which easily could have since they had a barrel of honey to store. The queen had no way to get up into the upper box to lay because there was a queen excluder. She had the forces take the honey and run! not enough room will cause it and too much room can cause it.


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## jrose1970 (Apr 1, 2014)

Hi Lenny,
I'm really sorry about you losing your bees. It sounds like you did everything right. I would rob the honey for sure. That is yours.
The ants and robber bees will just take it. As far as a swarm moving in, that is an interesting subject. The chances are slim, but it could happen.
I had it happen one time. I actually have about 8 empty hives out just hoping. There is a better technique for capturing a swarm though. Place a nuc up in a tree about 8 feet. The entrance would be better to be a 3/4 inch hole. As always, I'm not a pro, so let's wait and learn from more experienced beeks!


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## Dan P (Oct 29, 2014)

I am sure they were very aggressive bees. The ones Ive got here dont like to be moved. Alot of removals and cut outs I do seem to abscond after three days.I have to screen them in for a week after a week they seem to stay. Or were they Cape bees?


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## Lenny (Dec 23, 2014)

Thanks for the responses!

They where quite aggressive. How does one screen them in? With those holed metal plates over the entrance?

How do i tell whether I'm dealing with cape bees or africanized bees? They seemed a bit bigger on average than my other colony. 

So a 5 frame nuc would be more effective in catching a swarm than a whole brood box? 

Tenbear, so if the comb from the cutout fills 10x brood frames, it's better to put another brood box with empty frames on rather than a super?


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## Dan P (Oct 29, 2014)

I actually put window screen over entrance. Put most brood together empty frames on sides. Feed drone brood to chickens. I dont know visually between cape or africanized. I was just wondering. Cape bees are in your area.


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## jrose1970 (Apr 1, 2014)

Hi Lenny,
Yes, from what I've watched on youtube and read on this website, a nuc is better for catching swarms. However, the only time I've done it was with a 10 frame. Everyone should have about three traps set. That is a free hive! Good try on the removal though. That is how we learn.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

An old ten frame deep box probably works as well as anything. But a nuc will get by most of the time. ODFrank is fond of pointing out that a small swarm will move into the big box but a big swarm wont' move into a small box... I guess if you want big swarms you should plan for it. A corollary. If you want to catch a big fish, don't use 10# test and a #8 hook...


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

Next time put the excluder under the bottom box they may leave but will return when they realize the queen is not with them. I'd leave it on for a few weeks.


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## Lenny (Dec 23, 2014)

Now that's an interesting idea! I'll definitely give that a try next time.


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

I have discovered the hard way NOT to leave honey, even wet supers, anywhere near hives. The honey attracts bees from all around and they WILL rob any hives close by.

I suspect your hive was robbed, and the bees absconded.

African bees are harder to handle than European bees, I think a queen excluder under the box and over the entrance would be necessary, as well as considerably more room than a single deep.

But bees are going to do whatever they want.

Peter


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## Lenny (Dec 23, 2014)

Great thanks guys. So what I've learnt:

1) Don't leave spare honey or comb lying around, it's counter productive.

2) If I have a full deep/brood box after a cutout, then I should add another deep box, rather than a Q excluder and a super.

3) Put a Queen excluder between the bottom board and deepbox, to lock the queen in for a week or two. 

4) Try lock the whole colony inside for a day or two --- I should get screened bottom boards, before I try this...cos i'm pretty sure they will overheat and die with the current setup.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

It was the ants!

The horrible little ants will get in your small hive to interrupt with their daily bee activity. When they don't
like it they will just move on. AHB are known to move on to get better hive location and foraging land.
So ant proofing the hive will work. There are a few threads here to deal with the ants and the
hive stands. Are they the fire ants there?


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## Lenny (Dec 23, 2014)

beepro said:


> It was the ants!
> 
> The horrible little ants will get in your small hive to interrupt with their daily bee activity. When they don't
> like it they will just move on. AHB are known to move on to get better hive location and foraging land.
> ...


Don't think they fire ants...just regular little black ones. 
Will see what I can do cos I'm really hoping another swarm will move in there.


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## jrose1970 (Apr 1, 2014)

Thanks Michael.
That's good advice about the big boxes for swarm traps.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

If the swarm doesn't move in then the wax moth will.
Once wax moth gone thru your comb it is hard to fix them.
Hope you are prepare for this issue.


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## Lenny (Dec 23, 2014)

Worst case scenario, the wax moths move in and i throw the comb away or melt it down.

Is there a way to protect it from wax moth while still being attractive for swarms?


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Lenny, one option is to apply some Bt variety _aizawai_. It is a highly targeted _biological _pesticide that kills wax moth larva without having any appreciable effect on non-moth type creatures. More on that in this current thread: 

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?302549-Wax-moth-issue-where-to-get-bt-aizawai


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Thanks Michael.
>That's good advice about the big boxes for swarm traps.

I'm just repeating OD Franks advice...


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## Lenny (Dec 23, 2014)

Well my buddy who owns the property, checked the hive out and said the comb was full of ants and maggots (Presumably after the dead brood) although i wonder if he isn't actually referring to wax moth larvae. Anyways he cleaned the hive out for me.

He owns/runs a horse feed factory. They use a ingredient in their feed called vitaroma, which is a natural citrus powder. He said that he noticed bees seem very attracted to the bags vitaroma at the factory. So he put some on the inside of the empty hive. I'm very interested to see what happens...will let you guys know, if it attracts any swarms.


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