# Candy: HELP!



## Bee Kid (Jan 3, 2010)

Okay, we've tried and tried to make bee candy but we can NEVER get it above 250 F. We used a turkey fryer and some other stuff but we can't get it hot enough. After the fourth attempt it's getting depressing. Is it the water we're using? We use one quart of water to 5lbs of sugar. Got any ideas?

Bee Kid


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## summer1052 (Oct 21, 2007)

What altitude are you at? Higher altitude affects the boiling point of water.

I lived in Denver (the Mile High City) for 35 years. I found candy making to be more art than science. I used the ice water/syrup test. Drop a couple of drips of hot syrup into very cold water. Wait 20 seconds. Pull out the candy and test it.

Does it form a soft ball? A hard ball? Does it crack? I am not sure to what "stage" you want to cook sugar syrup for fondant (bee candy), but Chef Isaac or someone else here will know for sure.

Check out the Colorado State University web site for more info. CSU is the A & M, and they run the Extension Service. They have LOTS if info about cooking at altitude.

Now that I live in south TX at a whopping 85 feet above sea level, I have lots more trouble making candy. It's too darn humid here -- I got used to Denver's High and Dry!
:lpf:

Ah well. Good luck!

Summer


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## WavelandDrone (Apr 23, 2010)

I made my first candy boards this year and I used 3 cups of water to 15lbs of sugar. I live in West central Indiana and had no trouble getting it up to 250. I have made 6 boards in 2 batches and it worked great.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

summer1052 said:


> I am not sure to what "stage" you want to cook sugar syrup for fondant (bee candy)... snip


Fondant is not the same as candy.

Candy requires more heat, fondant requires more effort (and corn syrup).



Bee Kid,

Try using a smaller pot... you might have too much heat loss.

The amount of water used at the beginning doesn't have much importance ... you simply need to keep the sugar slurry from settling/burning on the bottom.

If I make fondant I start with a 4:1 or 5:1 mixture.


This link may help with deciding what temperature to aim for:

http://uwacadweb.uwyo.edu/cesnutrition/Publications/Baking_Food_Storage/Adjust4.htm


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

I use 1 quart to 5 lbs of sugar. I tried doing 3 quarts and 15 lbs at a time, and it was difficult to get it over 250F. When I put some of it in a smaller pot, it went over 275F in a few min.

Try a smaller pot, or smaller doses.


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## soupcan (Jan 2, 2005)

WAAAAAAY to much water!!!
We use aprox. 6 quarts to do a 100 pounds of sugar.


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## Bee Kid (Jan 3, 2010)

> We use aprox. 6 quarts to do a 100 pounds of sugar.


Won't it carmalyze if you don't put enough water in? That's what happened a few times because we couldn't get it hot enough so it just boiled all the water out and carmalyzed. The pot was pretty small so it wouldn't boil over when the candy rose. Thanks for the great comments so far.

BK


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## Peter NuBee (Nov 8, 2010)

I used 1 qt of water to 15 lbs of sugar and a 1/4 cup of white vinegar to make candy.
Got the mixture up to 265 degrees on my camp stove outside.
Took awhile but kept stirring. 
Poured into my candy board mold and the results was beautiful hard white candy.
The girls love it!


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## rwlaw (May 4, 2009)

I've been playing w/ the recipies found here. Came up w/ 2tbl vinegar or lemon juice/ 2 cups water for first five lbs sugar. Stir the sugar in slow at first to get enough slurry so it won't burn, get the slurry going and add another 2C water for add'l sugar. 
250 deg will give you a nice firm cake, yeah it hangs up at a certain point (mine's about 239), but keep at it, it's got to get more moisture out. The higher you go the harder you get, ran one batch up to 265 and it's like a brick. One thing I did notice the bubbles will get kind of a soapy sheen when you get to the setting stage.
Now the thing that I've yet to figure out is the vinegar/lemon juice issue, went 2tbl per 5lbs (a total of 6tbl for 15lb) and it almost didn't set i.e. stayed soft but did set/ usable. I'm thinking stay within the 2 to 4tbl range for amounts greater than 5lbs up to 15. Somebody else can figure that out I've got enough for the year, plus enough not set stuff for syrup in the freezer for spring lol


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## coopermaple (Aug 30, 2009)

BeeKid I think you need to get e new thermometer. If you boiled all the water out you were well over 250. Water boils at average of 212 (varies with elevation and barometric pressure) the more sugar added to water the higher the boiling point (sugar to water ratio) as water is evaporated during the boiling process the higher the boiling temp will become. If you have lots of water to start with it's going to take a while to get the excess water boiled off. Key is to start with just enough water to keep the boiling time to a minimal yet enough to disolve the sugar.


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## callsign222 (Nov 9, 2010)

Here's a pretty neat fondant recipe from a gentleman in our BK Assoc. I plan on trying it soon. It has a great consistency. Nice comprehensive directions with pictures.

http://jackshoney.com/Bees/Fondant_101_files/


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## clintonbemrose (Oct 23, 2001)

Feeding Bees with Hard Candy
The hard candy method is more work but reduces moisture problems associated with syrup feeding during the cold weather.
Preparing the candy
Ingredients:
12 pounds table sugar
1 ½ pounds honey or corn syrup
1 ¼ quart water
¼ teaspoon cream of tartar
Using medium Heat the water while adding the sugar and honey. Stir continuously until the mixture is liquid. Remove the spoon; do not stir, but continue to heat the mixture. Heat the boiling mixture to 238° F. Do not stir while cooking. When the temperature reaches 238° F, remove from the heat source and add the cream of tartar. Cool the mixture to 125° F and stir vigorously until the mixture becomes cloudy white. Pour the mixture into a rectangular cake pan or candy feeder box.
Candy molded in cake pan can be wrapped in wax paper and placed in the hive.
A candy feed box can be constructed from a piece of one-half inch plywood the size of an inner cover. A 1 ¼-inch rail is nailed around the perimeter of the plywood to make a tray. Nail 12 roofing nails into the inside bottom of the plywood tray to anchor the candy after it hardens. Place the tray, candy-side down, over the bees. Cover the tray with the inner and outer covers.
Clint


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

clintonbemrose said:


> Ingredients:
> 12 pounds table sugar
> 1 ½ pounds honey or corn syrup
> 1 ¼ quart water
> ¼ teaspoon cream of tartar


?

I use one ounce of corn syrup per pound of sugar when making a "baker's fondant". I would think that "candy" would require much less, or none with the addition of the acid.


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

Is that picture of just sugar and corn syrup? no water, no flour, no additives?


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## NDnewbeek (Jul 4, 2008)

BeeCurious,

Is that lump of sugar a soft fondant or a hard candy?

If it is soft - can you share the recipe/procedures for making it?

Thanks

Mike


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## clintonbemrose (Oct 23, 2001)

I have been using my recipe for over 40 years. This will form a semi-hard sheet of candy that will soften as it absorbs the moisture in the hive allowing the bees to use it like honey. The corn syrup helps to keep the sugar crystals from becoming too large for the bees
Clint


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

Specialkayme said:


> Is that picture of just sugar and corn syrup? no water, no flour, no additives?


It's fondant... sugar, water and corn syrup






NDnewbeek said:


> BeeCurious,
> 
> Is that lump of sugar a soft fondant or a hard candy?
> 
> ...


Mike,

You can follow this recipe: 
http://candy.about.com/od/fondantcandyrecipes/r/basic_fondant.htm

... but you need to be careful about washing the sugar crystals from the side of the pot. AND do not wet any tools or pan with additional water!

I did a minimum of kneading.

Once the fondant was cool enough I put it into plastic bags to "cure". It is firm but with a little movement it becomes more pliable.

It's a lot of work, and after making about six batches, of various sizes, I drove to Yonkers, NY and bought two 50# cubes of the stuff.

Start with small batches to avoid too big of a mess if something goes wrong and increase the mixtures as you become more confident. At least that's what I did. My last batches were made with 8 pounds of sugar, one cup of corn syrup and water...

I didn't knead the larger batches... it's for bees, not a wedding cake.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

I just made some today and it's so simple you don't even need a thermometer - 

5 cups water
25 pounds sugar

Over high heat bring the water to a boil, add the sugar 5 pounds at a time. Keep the heat on high. After every addition of sugar bring the mixture back to a boil while stirring continuously. Once you've added the last bag of sugar and brought it back to a boil (it won't take long the last time) remove it from the heat. 

For a tasty treat dip a banana in it now.

At this point you can add 2-5 pounds of pollen or substitute if you want to - and pour it in your mold. In a few minutes it will start to set and you can cut it in pieces with a knife if you want or you can just break it into chunks. Once it's cooled separate the pieces and turn them over to cure for a few hours. 

This will fill a 650 square inch mold about 1 inch deep. I use 2x4s screwed to my bench top and lined with 6 mil builders plastic.

This doesn't result in "hard candy" but rather more like hard dry lumps of sugar, but it's easy to do, easy to handle, and the bees like it just fine. It holds together very well, but you can easily break it with your hands.


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## drice (Dec 13, 2010)

Heres what works for me. 16oz water heat up till it starts to sizzle. Add 5 lbs sugar and heat up to 245 deg. You need to stir untill it gets to boiling good. As soon as it reaches temp remove from heat. Let cool to a little below 100deg then stir with ele tric mixer. When it begins to thicken I add 2oz water and stir in. Then pour into mold. The key for me to get this right was having the thermometer on thebottom of the pan, if it wasn't it didn't turn out. You don't need to go over 245 any thing more and its just harder.


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

Does anyone have a recipe using all/most HFCS?


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## muskratcreekhoney (Mar 30, 2010)

My wife was making candy for peanut brittle the other day, the sugar was boiling away and the thermometer said 200 F :s (dial type, not glass). It was actually 238 F., she only had the tip of the stem covered. You must make sure that the little bump on the stem is covered or you will be way off.


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## Long Lane Honey Bee Farms (Jul 12, 2008)

We bring 16 oz of water to a slight boil, add 5 lbs of sugar and bring it to 242 (F), then remove from heat. Once it drops to 170 we mix it once or twice and continue to beat it several minutes apart until it thickens. The key is not to pour it until it is well cooled. Mixing is a must.


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## Bsweet (Apr 9, 2010)

Hello Long Lane,Great to see you here. I got my start from you folks (Bees and woodware) Listen to these people folks they know their stuff. Jim


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I've made various kinds of candy from various sources over the years, mostly for humans. It's all about the temperature. You can make candy from honey, corn syrup, a mixture of sugar and honey, a mixture of sugar and corn syrup. How hard it gets is about temperature. how much moisture it has is about temperature. As the water boils off, the temperature increases. Back when I was too poor for a candy thermometer, I did it by watching the back of the spoon and by drizzling it into cold water. That's where the terms for candy making come from like "soft ball, "hard crack" etc. But the thermometer makes this much easier. I still do a test with water before I finalize things, but with a thermometer I do it a lot less.

So, back to the point, yes, you can use straight corn syrup etc. But there are other issues where bees are involved. Heating any sugar but particularly corn syrup makes HMF (Hydroxymethyl furfural) and this is poisonous to bees. So i can't say how healthy it would be for bees as I don't know how much HMF would be produced in the process of making candy from straight corn syrup but as I understand it, corn syrup will make more than straight sugar.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesglossary.htm


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## summer1052 (Oct 21, 2007)

Thank you, Michael Bush!

BeeCurious, this is what to which I was referring. And any item that contains water, like saline or glucose or honey or corn syrup or maple syrup boil at different temps at altitude, than they do at sea level. Atmospheric pressure, and all that.

Always remember that any syrup needs a LOT of room to expand in while boiling, and that it is unbelievably hot. I'd rather have hot beeswax burns than candy burns any day.

Now I'm in the mood for a taffy pull . . .

summer


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I should have thought about altitude... I used to live at 7200 and you could get beans done without a pressure cooker because water boiled at too low a temp. Yes, you'd have the same problem with candy, but there are formula's out there to compensate.


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## mnflemish (Jun 7, 2010)

Waveland Drone, I made your recipe today and have cooked it two times. Mine is sugar crystaling up on me. I might be stirring it too long. Cooked to 240. What does the consistency look like when you put it in your container? Do you pour it in a container runny looking? I am going to have to recook it again but I am not sure what it should look like when putting it in molds.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

mnflemish said:


> Waveland Drone, I made your recipe today and have cooked it two times. Mine is sugar crystaling up on me.
> 
> snip



If you are making "candy" it crystallizes into hard chunks.


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

But when you pour it, it's the consistency of syrup. Or watery syrup. It hardens as it cools.


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## Bee Kid (Jan 3, 2010)

We made candy a while ago and it worked great. We cut WAY down on water though and didn't heat it up as much. Here's what we used.

2 1/2 lbs of suger to one cup of water. Then we heated it to around 235. Came out really pretty! Thanks guys for all the help.

BK


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

Help me because I am stupid. I did the 7 lbs and quart of water in a big stock pot, the mix did not reach very high on my thermometer so I doubled it. Put it on a big camp stove and turned it up to “melt steel”. After it boiled for a short while it exploded into foam like milk boiling, (was not expecting that). The pot is really big so I got the heat off before the divorce proceedings took place (overflow). New candy thermometer read 175 F, and it was 2” in the mix. I figured it was broken because it boiled for a long time at this temp. I kept increasing the heat and it came to a nice rolling boil. I was looking for another 40 degrees, figured mercury was not broken just the scale. The temp started up and it came to a white foam. I dipped in some banana to make the kids happy at this point and the foam was a hard crust of sugar. Here I knew I was in trouble. I shut off the heat and tried to stir it without luck. Tried to get the thermometer out and it was stuck. I tried to dump it and got a goo. It is an amber color, not quite a brown. The pan started smelling burned so I dumped some water on it and called it a night. Now I have a pot of hard sugar top with light amber bottom. Can I just get a decent thermometer and bring it back to liquid and try again or do I have 20 lbs of ant food?
Poor decisions make for the best stories.


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