# Old Beeks: Have you built up any immunity to stings?



## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

I built up some.When I first started I had to carry some pills the doctor had given me.I cant remember what they were since its been well over 30 years ago.My first sting sent me to the emergency room and he gave me those pills then.Well the more I got stung the less I needed them till no more reactions.Now days they dont bother me much at all.


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## oldfordguy (Dec 5, 2009)

I swelled up when stung my first season, then stings just itched like crazy for a couple of days for about another season. Since my 3rd year keeping bees, I haven't had much of any reaction to stings (no itching or swelling.) I don't wear gloves, so I get stung regularly on the hands, probably about 30 stings per year. Now my son (12) has only been stung about 3 times in his lifetime (last year he installed 3 packages in a tank top, shorts, and a veil! with no stings) and has very little swelling or itch. His 3rd sting was on the lip (he was out without any protection taking photos in the beeyard.) It swelled very little, and by the next day you couldn't tell he'd been stung. 

The point behind all this is it is a highly personalized kind of thing. Everyone reacts differently; a friend of mine that keeps bees has never had much of a reaction, but the other day he got stung on the hand and his entire arm swelled up.


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## phyber (Apr 14, 2015)

So now you can get a sting, only feel the initial puncture pain/sensation, and have no swelling?

I work in IT and type constantly...I can't afford to have my hands swell up from stings so I glove up... but i'd still like to be a bit less inclined to look like a balloon when a random bee hits me.


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## oldfordguy (Dec 5, 2009)

I work in IT as well, and use the keyboard all day long. You're right; I feel the initial sting but that pain sub-sides in a minute or so and then I have no other significant effects. I took about 5-6 stings in the hands last weekend from my friskiest hive (one right on the side of my knuckle) and had just a little stiffness in it on Monday, but not enough to effect my typing ability. Actually, I used to have stiffness in my hands and the joints would pop before I started keeping bees. Now I have better mobility in my fingers, and the joints don't pop any more. I see it more as bee venom therapy than stings these days,


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## indypartridge (Nov 18, 2004)

I've found that in many cases, a person's reaction to bee stings is more dependent on their individual physiology than on any built up tolerance, i.e., some folks react more intensely to stings than others. One of my mentors, a long time beek (20+ years), still swells up when stung, and itches terribly. From the time I started with bees, I've hardly been bothered - I react much more to a mosquito bite than a honeybee sting.


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

i got stung in the finger last week, no mark no swelling, not much pain after 5 minutes, nothing the next day. the same on the leg a few weeks ago. last night i got it in the face, one on the cheek it felt exactly like a novacaine shot at the dentist, numb teeth and gumbs, a LOT of pain, and for me big headche included. i went to town and got some benadril right away. today the my cheek is swollen over an inch, no pain at all still a headache but not as bad.... like everything with bees it is unpredictable. :s:s


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

I've found that hand stings swell some but for some reason finger stings don't. Something to do with how callused up the hands are I think. The softer the place the worse it is imo. I'm getting to the point where I'm starting to shun protection as I've been stung on the face several times and it's not that big a deal. 
Getting the stinger out quick is what really matters. I can see myself going in shorts and a tank top in the next year or one more. Once you get past the fear of it the actual pain is not nearly as bad as the anxiety about it.


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

mathesonequip said:


> i got stung in the finger last week, no mark no swelling, not much pain after 5 minutes, nothing the next day. the same on the leg a few weeks ago. last night i got it in the face, one on the cheek it felt exactly like a novacaine shot at the dentist, numb teeth and gumbs, a LOT of pain, and for me big headche included. i went to town and got some benadril right away. today the my cheek is swollen over an inch, no pain at all still a headache but not as bad.... like everything with bees it is unpredictable. :s:s


First time I got stung on my forehead it gave me a whopper headache but that was 35 years ago. Now that I'm older, tougher, dumber, and more experienced at it  
I don't get the headaches like I used to.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

At first reactions got gradually worse. Then they ceased almost entirely.


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## phyber (Apr 14, 2015)

Aunt Betty, that's where I'm at now about stings...gun shy!


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

I was gun shy as well but instead of having anxiety about it the first chance I got I went out with a freind and checked his bees and casually let one sting my arthritis paw (righty). Oh, it swelled up because I thought I'd knocked the stinger off but no, got the full dose of venom. It's been down hill ever since so hey, dive in, the water's cold and stingy.


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## Deeohgee (Jun 28, 2015)

I believe that there are factors involved. Sometimes I get stung and no swelling, I am a IT guy as well. I don't use gloves and seldom anything else.
I found the quicker I scrape the stinger out the less effect I have. I also found that rubbing Ben Gay ointment on the sting and some Benadryl cream on it, that I have very very little reaction.


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

I have been keeping bees for a lttle over three years.

Before I kept bees I believed myself to be one of those people with an anaphylactic reaction to honey bee stings. Since I am also a professional horticulturist and fruit and veg farmer, protecting myself from stings has been a life long pre-occupation and I always carried Epi-pens, though for decades never used one. I'm in my 60s, so that's a lot of wasted drugs!

Early on in my struggles to keep my cut-out bees in their hive rather than back in the barn walls they came from, I had one evening when we under a tornado watch with an approaching severe thunderstorm when I was determined that I couldn't leave the bees exposed to the wind, so I tried to scoop them out again. 

Since it was nearly dark, with a heavy storm approaching and I was workinig on an extension ladder, you can imagine how mad that made the bees and they just lost it - I took dozens of stings, and hundreds and hundreds more stingers were embedded in my clothing and heavy gloves during this foolish task. (Now, I would know the bees would be less harmed by the storm than by my silly effort to "protect" them. I was _so_ clueless!)

My fresh Epi-pen was in my pocket and I was trying to monitor myself for any reaction while still keeping doggedly to my task. When I'd finally moved as many bees as I could, I climbed back down the ladder and realized I was having _no reaction at all_ beyond the pain from the stings themselves.

Since then, I have probably a couple of stings per week during the warm months and maybe one a month during the winter, so pretty much year 'round exposure. During the first year, or so, I got some slight swelling, and bit of itchiness.

Once, in my second summer, I got stung on my wedding ring finger and had such fast swelling I was lucky to get the ring off w/o cutting it off. (The old EMT trick of string and oil saved the day.) Other than that, beyond the sometimes fierce initial discomfort, I rarely get any reaction anymore except sometimes a slight soreness in nearby joints, a sort of arthritis-type reaction during the next 24 hours. (And that's weird because I know some people deliberately try stings as a means of relieving arthritic pain.)

But I generally get no swelling, or itching, or anything, anymore. My dignity is always impaired, though, because I hop around wailing like a baby and cursing like a sailor when I get stung. Just a drama queen, I guess.

Enj.


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## Little-John (Jun 18, 2015)

I only get a slight reaction to the first sting of the season, from then on - no problems

Thinking back to when I first started, swelling wasn't the issue for me - it was the itching. Used to drive me crazy. Tried calamine lotion, Witch Hazel, cold compresses and so on ... but only got relief for a very short time.

Then, somebody told me the secret ... 
Providing you're not actually allergic to bee stings (and that's really quite important - for obvious reasons) - the trick is to apply a hot compress to the area: hot water poured onto a flannel or towel, as hot as you can stand it without scalding yourself, and firmly held against the area for as long as possible. If needs be, repeat this a couple of times. I found that I could then actually get to sleep for a few hours, rather than stay awake scratching all night. In the morning maybe a repeat performance, and usually that was it.

I can't remember when the itching reaction itself stopped - probably after half a dozen stings - but it was a long time ago, and the ol' memory isn't what it used to be.

LJ


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

I swell if stung on the ear after thousands of stings over a lot of years. Hands, arms legs and torso seldom does a sting do anything but hurt as bad as the first one. What you gain more than immunity is the mindset required to just ignore the sting as a minor inconsequential matter, Which it is for the vast majority of people. It is dangerous for a beekeeper to not get stung as people who around the bees and products tend to develop hypo allergenic reactions at a much larger number than normal. As do family members.


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## thehackleguy (Jul 29, 2014)

phyber said:


> I work in IT and type constantly...I can't afford to have my hands swell up from stings so I glove up... but i'd still like to be a bit less inclined to look like a balloon when a random bee hits me.


I've worried about this also, I work in surgery and use my hands extensively. I use nitrile gloves, I did get stung once in the end of the finger but I was careless and squished one of the girls.


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## gnor (Jun 3, 2015)

Michael Bush said:


> At first reactions got gradually worse. Then they ceased almost entirely.


Glad to hear that. I've never had much reaction, and I generally ignore insects, but last year I got chased out of a bee yard by a particularly nasty hive. Had a "strong local reaction." Swelling and itching for several days. Haven't been stung this year yet, although I've been working bare handed, but I'm curious to see how it goes.


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## gnor (Jun 3, 2015)

I think I'll be wearing a veil this year, but keep the gloves handy for those times when the girls don't want to see me. The biofeedback method for learning bee handling. LOL


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

It's been a long time since I started, and I know I swelled up early on. But I haven't done so in many years and I get stung many times every day. Maybe what happens to my help can help answer your question. 

When they show up, they're covered from head to toe. suits, ridiculous looking veils, gloves and duct taped pants....Doesn't take long before the suits and gloves get left in the truck. Then they leave off the veil...like I often do...and of course they get stung about the head and face. Next day they come to work with eyes closed up and face all distorted. Had one guy go back to Montreal to recover when he couldn't open his eyes.  Mostly they try again over the next few weeks and get stung again, veil for awhile, they again and again....Well it isn't too many weeks before they stop swelling severely. Lips still swell, and next to the eye socket swells for some time, but before the end of the summer they don't swell at all, no matter where the sting. 

Nose shots and stings to other appendages still hurt like the devil but no swelling. Trouble is that most beekeepers never get stung nearly enough to get their bodies regulated to accept the venom. So come on....get stung more. It's good for you.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

With all due respect - that's nuts.

Although I seem to recall that some folks enjoy pain?

Seriously - my bees would sting me many many times if I didn't wear any protection. They sting me enough anyway.


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## Dave Burrup (Jul 22, 2008)

The first year I swelled some and the stings itched for days. Now they still hurt, but I have no swelling or itching.


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## gnor (Jun 3, 2015)

Don't mind the pain, or the swelling. I was a carpenter for many years, and most days I was bleeding from some place or another. I will look forward to the day when the itching stops, however.


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## Arnie (Jan 30, 2014)

At first I just wore the veil, no gloves. I got stung from time to time but it never bothered me.

Then, little by little I began to have reactions........swelling, a little dizziness, sometimes chest pain and I felt lethargic. 
I picked up an Epi pen and wear gloves now. I work more carefully and have not been stung in several years. 

I'm curious to see if I still have an allergy............well, not that curious. Benadryl and allergy meds have always worked, but I'm still careful.


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## ChuckReburn (Dec 17, 2013)

I was told about 50 stings a year gets you there. The first few in the Spring tend to cause a bit of a reaction but after that, not much. I've learned to go barehanded because it doesn't matter much taking stings in the hands anymore and I'd just as soon get stung there and build immunity. Unless its a hot hive, I seem to get stung less barehanded than with gloves. 

Once in the while I get nailed by one that really hurts, last one was a nose shot - gave me a sort of sinus headache for a few hrs.


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

i was picking up some queens from a long time breeder. he got stung a couple of times in the arm and wrist as he was pulling queens out of a bank. he did not react. his wrist started to swell. i asked him if it hurt. his answer "yes it vvg8dxgr/km2xxzrf /jjeed4s hurts". he got more than 50 stings a year.


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

After 3 yrs the first few stings of the yr I get some swelling and itch the rest this yr had minimal to no swelling or itch including one right on the nose that didn't itch or swell at all, it did trow my back out when I spun around ro run lol


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## Colobee (May 15, 2014)

They still hurt just as much as the first ones. Some swell & some don't - depends on where they hit. I haven't had enough to say I'm more immune. ~50, from my hot hive last year, had no appreciable affect. I have some old MSG that nullifies the sharper ones almost immediately. I usually wear a "pollinator jacket" - I'd just as soon not take any unnecessary abuse.


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## phyber (Apr 14, 2015)

David LaFerney said:


> With all due respect - that's nuts.
> 
> Although I seem to recall that some folks enjoy pain?
> 
> Seriously - my bees would sting me many many times if I didn't wear any protection. They sting me enough anyway.


That's where I'm at. I know and accept that lots of bees will be invading my personal space, but heck if I'm going to let them get near my eyes! I also am a bit OCD about my hands (wash them a lot, and any knick drives me nuts) so having my hands swell is crazy to me. I can deal with arms/legs/shoulders....


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

phyber said:


> That's where I'm at. I know and accept that lots of bees will be invading my personal space, but heck if I'm going to let them get near my eyes! I also am a bit OCD about my hands (wash them a lot, and any knick drives me nuts) so having my hands swell is crazy to me. I can deal with arms/legs/shoulders....


if you think you wash your hands a lot now, just wait until you start extracting any honey and get honey and propolis
all over them


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## phyber (Apr 14, 2015)

clyderoad said:


> if you think you wash your hands a lot now, just wait until you start extracting any honey and get honey and propolis
> all over them


Hopefully my dish gloves will save the day


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## AL from Georgia (Jul 14, 2014)

Don't listen to these folks that brag about not wearing protection and getting stung a lot. They are not tough, they are dumb. The only reason you should get stung multiple times daily is because you decide getting stung is not as bad as wearing personal protective equipment. With the proper equipment, you should only get stung a few times per season. I also agree with the posters that say the fear of getting stung is worse than the actual stings.


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## Deeohgee (Jun 28, 2015)

AL from Georgia said:


> Don't listen to these folks that brag about not wearing protection and getting stung a lot. They are not tough, they are dumb. .


Really? We are dumb? LMAO!!
When working a yard in 90 degree weather, you will be so hot you will pass out. 
Pick you poison, heat stroke or being stung. I get stung about one out of every 10 - 12 hives. And I seldom if ever get stung if I smoke them lightly!


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

AL from Georgia said:


> Don't listen to these folks that brag about not wearing protection and getting stung a lot. They are not tough, they are dumb. The only reason you should get stung multiple times daily is because you decide getting stung is not as bad as wearing personal protective equipment. With the proper equipment, you should only get stung a few times per season. I also agree with the posters that say the fear of getting stung is worse than the actual stings.


 Wow. I've been stung a lot while doing cutouts. When you are vacuuming up bees off a comb, then have to put it somewhere to do the other side...you lay it where? On your arm of course and sometimes you can get stung a half-dozen times just like that bam right thru your bee suit. 

Once you've had your full protection suit on for say 10 hours in a hot room carefully cutting a colony out of three sections of wall you start wanting some air and take risks to get it. Eventually you get stung enough times where it is no big deal. That is how come you see fatbeeman on youtube with loose shorts and sleeveless shirt, no head protection at all. He has been stung so many times that he is immune and that is the point of the thread here (I think).


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## phyber (Apr 14, 2015)

Yes, the point was that I was trying to find a point at which beeks stopped swelling and tolerated a sting for the temporary discomfort it is...be it a number range (~200 stings) or over time.

My buddy says that I should continuously go out and intentionally get stung...as soon as my swelling goes down, have another sting me. I just hate to suffer for so long!


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

phyber said:


> Yes, the point was that I was trying to find a point at which beeks stopped swelling and tolerated a sting for the temporary discomfort it is...be it a number range (~200 stings) or over time.
> 
> My buddy says that I should continuously go out and intentionally get stung...as soon as my swelling goes down, have another sting me. I just hate to suffer for so long!


The number is less. I think the frequency is also a factor. I know when I was in the "a good beek never gets stung" camp I was terrified of being stung and got mad as a hornet when I did. Someone once carefully pointed out that I'm hyper and need to calm down...the bees pick up on that kind of thing. lol

Getting mad at them does not help. Have gotten where I just kind of wince and take the pain like medicine. It takes a full 90 seconds to get where it isn't stinging. Use that time to find your tool and scrape.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

AL from Georgia said:


> Don't listen to these folks that brag about not wearing protection and getting stung a lot. They are not tough, they are dumb. The only reason you should get stung multiple times daily is because you decide getting stung is not as bad as wearing personal protective equipment. With the proper equipment, you should only get stung a few times per season. I also agree with the posters that say the fear of getting stung is worse than the actual stings.


An experienced 1 year beekeeper calling what others do dumb. Ya gotta love it!


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## phyber (Apr 14, 2015)

clyderoad said:


> An experienced 1 year beekeeper calling what others do dumb. Ya gotta love it!


I can see both sides of the issue; we have the PPE resources available and they're not but so difficult to use...why not? I also see the camp that wants to be less confined... I just want to be able to not have but so much "fear" over the next sting... It's not so much I'm leery of the pain/act of the sting...I just dread the days of swelling ahead.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

I wear a veil everytime I work the bees. No jacket or gloves but that's just how I do it. 
In the fall I wear the jacket and hood.
Always long pants. Most times short sleeve shirt.

I get stung. Some hurt more than others. Some don't hurt or swell- depends on where the sting is. I don't care to
take any to the face- therefore the veil.
I can tell you I get stung way more than "a few times per season", more like a few times + per day.

Do what makes you feel comfortable. I'll bet your comfort level will change over time.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

delete


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## winevines (Apr 7, 2007)

clyderoad said:


> Do what makes you feel comfortable. I'll bet your comfort level will change over time.


Exactly who the heck cares what Personal Protective gear a beekeeper wears and why. It should not make the least bit of difference if it makes them comfortable and able to work. If it gets in the way, then that is a different conversation.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

winevines said:


> Exactly who the heck cares what Personal Protective gear a beekeeper wears and why. It should not make the least bit of difference if it makes them comfortable and able to work. If it gets in the way, then that is a different conversation.


I think we agree?


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## AL from Georgia (Jul 14, 2014)

Deeohgee said:


> Really? We are dumb? LMAO!!
> When working a yard in 90 degree weather, you will be so hot you will pass out.
> Pick you poison, heat stroke or being stung. I get stung about one out of every 10 - 12 hives. And I seldom if ever get stung if I smoke them lightly!


First of all, didn't want to offend anyone too bad. I am sure that system works good for you, and you are probably a very experienced beekeeper. Many people work in the heat with gear on and do not have a heat stroke, not only in beekeeping. I am only trying to help a new beekeeper reading this to realize not all advice on this forum is right for them. It is funny that only your bees seem to be even tempered, because mine change with the seasons, the weather, and sometimes for unknown reasons. A brief inspection during a dearth sometimes results in multiple stings, while the same hive during the flow will completely ignore me. My statement was that beekeepers who get stung a lot and brag about not wearing PPE are dumb, and I stand by that. Most folks that don't use PPE at times do so after years of experience for comfort reasons, not to brag to new beeks on the net. My 'not tough, dumb' comment was directed right at those beeks. I have a new beekeeper in my area with a great Fa*ebook page.....he proudly brags about being stung in the face, in the lip, near the eye. No doubt due in part to his disregard to safety, again, proudly displayed in a photo of him kissing a frame of bees. The problem with this forum, and the internet in general, is that there are not enough people pointing out to new beekeepers that this type of behavior is not normal. I have seen plenty of individuals on the net wearing no PPE, I have never seen a group of commercial beekeepers working without PPE. Sometimes a new beek, even myself, can get the wrong message from a simple photo, video, or post. Just trying to tell both sides, and keep a few friends if possible.


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## AL from Georgia (Jul 14, 2014)

clyderoad said:


> An experienced 1 year beekeeper calling what others do dumb. Ya gotta love it!


I said those who don't wear PPE and brag about getting stung a lot is dumb, and I stand by that. I am a second year beek by the way, lost all my bees in the first season by taking advice on this forum. I sure wish someone would have spoke up with a different point of view back then. I have not posted on this forum in a while, now I remember why.


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

AL from Georgia said:


> I said those who don't wear PPE and brag about getting stung a lot is dumb, and I stand by that. I am a second year beek by the way, lost all my bees in the first season by taking advice on this forum. I sure wish someone would have spoke up with a different point of view back then. I have not posted on this forum in a while, now I remember why.


Beekeeping is not a perfect science nor will it ever be. There's some trial and error, a plethora of conflicting advice from well-meaning helpers, poor management, bad weather, poor habitat, poor habitat, poor habitat, lack of common sense, and sometimes just bad luck. Who do you blame? I'm going to blame the bees of course.  It all their fault. It's just my boxes. lol


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Working without a veil or encouraging others to do so IS Dumb - no matter how much experience you have. Sorry, not trying to offend anyone, not trying to start a bunch of drama. How would you feel if your kids shop teacher told them that only sissies wear safety glasses?

From www.scielo.org.co "Bee stings of the eye are uncommon entities and ocular reactions to the bee venom are wide, ranging from mild conjunctivitis to sudden vision loss. We present the case of a patient who suffered a bee sting of the cornea and the response to the poison components..."










Any questions?


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## spunky (Nov 14, 2006)

After 9 yrs I notice no difference in pain or swelling, minor in both aspects. I always wear at least a veil. Why , see above photo . I didnt wear a veil when changing hive top mason jar feeders a few yrs ago , and one bee came out of the hive like a racehorse , tagged me about 3 inches under my right eye, lesson learned.


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## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

I started as a beek in 1973, and over the years have had thousands or tens of thousands of stings. In 2012, splitting down a AHB hive I took 4 or 5 stings to the neck near the cardioid artery. I was sloppy and was using a veil with tears in the netting. I broke out in hives on the soles of my feet and hands. I felt faint and confused. Benadryl and an Epi-Pen injection brought me back. A subsequent visit to an allergist confirmed a mild allergy to bees and yellow jackets --- they inject calibrated serial dilutions in your forearm and measure the diameter of the swelling and redness. I completed an accelerated desensitization course.

So no: at year 39 of my beekeeping I suffered a serious allergic reaction. I was very cautious the subsequent year, but I know I am getting sloppy again -- but the stings do not cause any reaction beyond a little swelling-- like the allergic response never happened.

The confusion of judgment that accompanies a systemic reaction must be considered --- in my case it required an act of pure will to find a bottle benydryl in my toolbox -- and luckily my wife had insisted I put the epi-pen in the lunch cooler that day after I described the hive over breakfast. I was 18 miles out in the Big Sur wilderness, and I could no more drive for help than I could fly. I could not stand and walk to the truck, blacked out and fell over when I tried. I could not crawl -- same lightheaded reaction. Luckily I was up a cutbank from the road, and just let myself slide down the talus like a rag-doll, and ended up near the toolbox on the tailgate.


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

I have had bees for over 35 years on and off, and I still have not built up a complete immunity from stings with no reactions. Normally, I will only swell very slightly from stings, but if I get a whole bunch of stings in a short time period, say, 20 stings in 5 minutes(which is very rare), I will break out in hives on my face and arms. I figure that's the way it will always be for me. My system apparently can't handle a sudden influx of substantial venom. I'm wondering if anyone else who has had bees as long as me has the same issue?


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

JWChesnut said:


> I started as a beek in 1973, and over the years have had thousands or tens of thousands of stings. In 2012, splitting down a AHB hive I took 4 or 5 stings to the neck near the cardioid artery. I was sloppy and was using a veil with tears in the netting. I broke out in hives on the soles of my feet and hands. I felt faint and confused. Benadryl and an Epi-Pen injection brought me back. A subsequent visit to an allergist confirmed a mild allergy to bees and yellow jackets --- they inject calibrated serial dilutions in your forearm and measure the diameter of the swelling and redness. I completed an accelerated desensitization course.
> 
> So no: at year 39 of my beekeeping I suffered a serious allergic reaction. I was very cautious the subsequent year, but I know I am getting sloppy again -- but the stings do not cause any reaction beyond a little swelling-- like the allergic response never happened.
> 
> The confusion of judgment that accompanies a systemic reaction must be considered --- in my case it required an act of pure will to find a bottle benydryl in my toolbox -- and luckily my wife had insisted I put the epi-pen in the lunch cooler that day after I described the hive over breakfast. I was 18 miles out in the Big Sur wilderness, and I could no more drive for help than I could fly.


Interesting that you had a reaction like that after all those years with bees. I never have felt faint or confused when I get lots of stings at once, but I guess it's still possible it could happen someday. I ought to carry benydrl and/or an epi-pen with me too just in case!


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## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)

David LaFerney said:


> ...


No drama...oh yeah...

I reckon who cannot take stings is no beekeeper. Period. I don't see me working all day for days in any sort of protection. Don't need it anyway. Don't own a veil. I don't get swellings and don't get any reactions to the venom anymore. So what's the danger if the effect of a sting is nothing? 

Sure, it is adviseable to proceed carefully to get to that state of being resistant. You need about hundred stings I guess, to become resistant. If you get a sting a week, which is a good pace, you are completely free of any reactions in two years. 

It is dangerous to avoid stings, because in the experience of bee venom therapists I know, those who only get few stings, unregularily, can and do develop severe reactions up to anaphylactic shocks. If you get only one or two stings a year, next year no sting, the other year only one - that's the way to develop allergic reactions. So you better get your stings more regularily.

I get at least one sting per day, most days in summer five or more. I don't bother because what happens is plain nothing. A bit itchy for some seconds that's it. 

I love it. Love to work barehanded, fingers down into the honey - how do you taste the different honeys? How do you taste the moisture level of the honey? How do you eat honey, royal jelly, bee bread and so on while working? How do you know if you do something wrong, if the bees can't tell you by stings? How do you get in touch with the bees? How do you see eggs and diseases through the veil? Do beekeepers smell good, when sweating? And so on. No, you probably never become a good beekeeper if you don't take stings. Maybe I am oldschool, but the oldtimers here would laugh at the astronaut costumes some "beekeepers" show up with. 

Plain dumb,

Bernhard


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Clearly you are an example of exceptional manliness.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

David LaFerney said:


> Clearly you are an example of exceptional manliness.


So...... have you built up any immunity?


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## Dave A. (Mar 13, 2015)

Really? 

This seems to have turned into a 'my stinger is bigger than your stinger' thread.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

clyderoad said:


> So...... have you built up any immunity?


I never did have much swelling or itching - except above the neck - and while I get stung regularly and I guess I'm getting "used to it" I still don't like getting stung, and avoid it within reason. Not really a beekeeper I guess.


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## larryh (Jul 28, 2014)

BernhardHeuvel said:


> No drama...oh yeah...
> 
> ... You need about hundred stings I guess, to become resistant. If you get a sting a week, which is a good pace, you are completely free of any reactions in two years.
> 
> It is dangerous to avoid stings, because in the experience of bee venom therapists I know, those who only get few stings, unregularily, can and do develop severe reactions up to anaphylactic shocks. If you get only one or two stings a year, next year no sting, the other year only one - that's the way to develop allergic reactions. So you better get your stings more regularily.


Would a doctor back this up?


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

Still not buying the "good beeks never get stung" thing. It's kind of obvious that the more you work with them, the more you get stung, and the less it affects you. 

Don't know but if you want an order of magnitude of stings it takes to develop immunity its starting to look like it's in the hundreds, Not tens, and certainly not thousands. 
To get one hundred stings in a summer is feasible if you have a dozen or more colonies plus do swarms and cutouts. The guys with two in the back yard...it might take years to develop immunity.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

David LaFerney said:


> I never did have much swelling or itching - except above the neck - and while I get stung regularly and I guess I'm getting "used to it" I still don't like getting stung, and avoid it within reason. Not really a beekeeper I guess.



+1 ...Don't know why but "the above the neck" sting still really gets me, swell and itch like crazy. You won't catch me w/o a veil ...


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## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)

David LaFerney said:


> Clearly you are an example of exceptional manliness.


At least I don't call people dumb.

It doesn't take manliness to work bees without veil, you only need to be a beekeeper who knows how to work bees. So the bees don't get angry. Get some smoke and that's it.

Example:




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBLGIVQJirE

Even when shaking bees:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tIjiXvJb50

So all you need is to learn handling bees the right way. And you never learn if you don't get stung. As you don't get resistant if you don't get stung. Simple as that.

As I said, you need to work your way step by step to that state. As Michael Palmer further above describes.

And yes, you can back up that statement with a doctor. Ask one that works with bee venom, and desensibilizes people against bee venom. You regularily get micro-stings first, tuning up the doses until you are resistent. Ask Mike Simics from http://beevenom.com, I met him in Germany at the Apitherapy Conference and never met another, who knew more about bee venom.


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## lemmje (Feb 23, 2015)

I get stung fairly regularly and generally with little to no swelling. A couple days ago i took a stinger to the chin (was not wearing a veil) then later that afternoon a sting to the top of my head (was wearing a veil, but a bee found her way through and got caught in the headband). Hours later was looking completely normal. Next morning woke up to this. I guess the venom settled into my sinuses when i was sleeping on my stomach, face down. 









I would never advise anyone to not wear a veil, but clearly in this case it didn't matter since one found her way to my head even with a veil.


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## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)

One need to be very careful, if you get stung in the past and suddenly develop reactions. Better see a doctor and test for bee venom allergy. But wait with the test at least two weeks, because directly after a sting the test always is positive. Not many doctors know this. If you find yourself developing allergies because of too few and irregular stings, you need do a desensibilization therapy under observation of a doctor. 

Beginners I work with, I advise to start with some bee venom ointment. That doesn't cause swellings. Later they take bees and sting themselves on purpose, every two weeks. Into the outer side of the shinbone, right below the knee, into a groove of the skin. So the swelling doesn't cause too much discomfort. Alternating the right and left leg each time. Later they sting themselves every week. Take a lot of vitamin C. Bee venom uses up your bodies' vitamin C. 
After one year they are completely resistant. Most of them started loving it, and all are thankful for working free and easy with the bees.

An accident, like a bee that made it into your suit or veil, does no harm anymore. I know, that when you get out of your suit, you often grab into a bee. You grab into bees when moving supers, or tucking away your bee stuff. In the extraction room. In your car. Or in your garden when sitting at the garden table for picnic. Whatever. Or you drop a hive off a hand truck...
I would hate to have swellings every time I get a sting. Of course it is painful the first year, but after that you are free. I don't want everyone becoming careless or incautious,no. It still is venom and great care is needed. What I want is to make hope, that you can do it and get resistant.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

BernhardHeuvel - I'm really not trying to start a conflict. But - when you work your bees are you %100 sure you won't get stung in the eye? If you do get stung do you know for a fact that you won't dammage or lose your sight? Are you sure that my bees are as non-aggressive as yours are? When you encourage others - beginners especially - to not use any safety equipment, do you know beyond a reasonable doubt that They won't have a serious or even fatal reaction if they get many stings? When you say that one isn't really a beekeeper unless you take many stings - does that have any basis whatsoever other than chest thumping machismo? Do you think anyone is going to be encouraged to take up beekeeping if they are told there is no alternative other than taking hundreds of stings? Maybe you don't want others to start keeping bees?

I've taken over 20 stings at a time on several occasions - every time that happened it was because I did something dumb. I try to learn and do better when I make mistakes - I certainly don't try to turn them into virtues, and tell others that they should make the same ones. But that's just me.

When you have years of experience at your craft you get the priviledge of deciding for yourself when you should or shouldn't use eye protection - but do you really think that you should tell the young/inexperienced that they are somehow lacking if *they* follow the accepted safety rules?

I don't really think that I'm taking a radical position here in encouraging people to try to protect their vision at least.


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

:thumbsup:excellent post david


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## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)

What I said already. Set your goal to get resistant. Work your way there like you wish and feel safe and comfortable. I have a lot of beginners start beekeeping. They usually start with veil and all sorts of protection. And I don't mind if they go and get a veil while we are working. I don't say: start naked. And I said already, don't be incautious. See post above. Don't be incautious means in other words, proceed with caution. I don't want anyone to get hurt or even more serious: get killed or loose vision. It is your own responsibility to adapt protection to your level of experience.

Only thing I wanted to say, it can be done, if you know the beast you're working with. To know your beloved animal is a good thing.


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

I posted this in the "Today in the Apiary" forum a couple days ago. But, by far, the most interesting thing to happen came as I was closing up a hive I was looking into to see the condition of a wet super I had returned to the hive a few days ago
I had been adding new strips of micro-fiber cloth to the hives. It was just another routine task going smoothly until I started closing up the hive. After I put the inner cover on, I decided to add a left over piece on top of the inner cover. If any of you have ever handled micro-fiber, you know how it sticks to rough fingers. As I was flicking my fingers to get it loose a puff of wind blew it across the opening of the inner cover and a bee stung it. When the bee pulled away, losing its stinger, bees began boiling out of the hole. I have heard this description used, but that was my first time seeing it. Instantly, the air was filled with angry bees looking for something to sting. I was so surprised, I dropped my tools on the ground, stepped back and put my hands way down in my pockets. Things happen quickly with bees.
I was very proud of my jacket and veil that day and glad I had my smoker lit. After a bit of smoking they calmed down and started going back in the hive. I walked away at that point and drank a bottle of water before returning to put on the outer cover.
I always wear a veil and jacket and after yesterday any thoughts of going Macho will not even be remotely considered for me or any guest.

Alex


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## philip.devos (Aug 10, 2013)

I think so. I have probably taken 8-10 stings so far this season. I approached what I thought was a swarm this week without a veil (bad idea) and took a sting on the arm and one just under the eye. In about 1/2 hour the area under the eye was starting to swell. I figured the swelling would continue, but instead within 4 more hours the swelling decreased, and by evening the area was back to normal (and no itching).

I think it is a bad idea to go in without protection around the head and face, but I normally work the bees without gloves. I typically get stings on the fingers and thumb. The initial sensation feels like a small splinter. I remove the sting, and rinse my hands with water to remove pheromones before resuming working the hive(s).


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## McBee7 (Dec 25, 2013)

At first I would get a rash and swell up to the point that my kids told me I must stop keeping bees because I was allergic to them-- but as time went by i built up resistance and the itch only lasted a day or 2 and now I'm sure I've taken a hundred stings this year----UNTIL today---I thought I would creep out into the back yard to see if the nucs there were still bearding in the hot weather, as I had added a second box to some to give more room and cooling,,,I was wearing shorts and no shoes--and as I creept within 6 feet of the row of hives I realized the error of my ways---There was (as there often is) a bee in the grass and he burned me in the soft part under my long toe----HOT<HOT<HOT--I danced into the house and begged my wife to pull out the stinger, and it throbed for an hour or more ...WOW..the moral of the story is even if you (I) have built up resistance to the venom, the pain and swelling and did i mention the pain, can still put you to your knees and the mercy of others  Lesson learned by ==McBee7==LOL...

==McBee7==


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## frankthomas (Aug 2, 2012)

My grandfather who grew up in a beekeeping family and always had bees told me he could tell little difference between a mosquito bite and a bee sting.


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## WRLCPA (May 12, 2014)

My wife is a first year bee keeper and I am a second year. This weekend we went to the yard to do a few things. I got stung a couple of times on my thighs through my jeans and she did too. The next day, mine looked like mosquito bites while hers swelled up the size of a softball. Mine used to be like hers as I recall. 

Now my stings seem to be more of a nuisance than anything.


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## crocodilu911 (Apr 17, 2015)

phyber said:


> Interested in another thread about partial stings (http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?314890-can-you-get-a-partial-sting-glove-questions) I was wondering...
> 
> We humans can build up tolerances to things...how long, or how many stings, did it take you before there was no swelling from stings...or has that yet to happen for anyone?


I started walking in between my dad's hives 34 years ago, so I grew up with them. always worked bees, half my family is into bees, so not much of a choice. the most I got stung, I estimate over 300 stings, but recorded, I mean one of my workers pulled stingers out of my skin, and counted them, was 164 stingers. this was working Africanized hives in California. 
to say that the back of my neck , you know where your veil touches your skin, I can't feel stings there. it is numb to stings so every time I get stung there, and I do, my wife gets the stings out when I get home... I can't see them back there. other than that , you build up a resistance to stings. usually I do not swell at all, but sometimes, depending where they sting I do. not much and usually it is gone within a few hours. I admit I have not had those high counts since I stopped working bees professionally , I am an office worker now, with bees being a hobby. 

i read and i see many people using gloves and all kinds of methods to keep from being stung, my father in law hates being stung, and as a professional beekeeper with 30 years experience, he did all he could not to get stung. i think bee stings are a blessing for you, they are pure health and they help with a number of ailments. immune system boost, blood flow, cures my back pain every time i get stung on my back. ( i usually ask my wife to get a few bees from the hives behind the house, and sting my lower back. any of you who worked bees long enough and are over 6ft knows exactly what kind of pain i am talking about, a few stings and that is gone). 

so i would say that even if it hurts at first ( and if you are even mildly allergic i would say stay away from bees) but i think with time, you get used to it. depending on every organism , it might take longer or not to get accustomed to getting stung, and reactions vary so much. my dad is at the point in his life at 65 he will not well even if they sting him in the "soft" sports  i swell a little but i have not had one there in quite a while


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## Steadfast (Sep 11, 2014)

Im a 2nd year beek...

These testimonies of building up immunity over time give me hope...


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## rookie2531 (Jul 28, 2014)

I have heard it go both ways. Some say the stings bother them less as the years go by and others have had to give the hobby up, because the last one put them in the hospital. I think every single body is unique and I suit up to try not getting stung. I do get stung even when trying not to, not a lot , twice this year, but I don't like it. I also don't like getting punched in the face, so I try not to start fights as well. Now a punch in the face may not kill me, it might even make me stronger and more tolerant of getting punched, but I still am not going to ask people to do it, so I get stronger. Just my opinion, but like most, read and you decide.


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## larryh (Jul 28, 2014)

I'm not an old beek, but if I keep up at this rate I'll build up that old beek immunity in no time. Latest one.. right up under the fingernail. Hurts so much it feels good. I usually swell up like crazy, so this one ought to be an adventure.


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## gnor (Jun 3, 2015)

I seem to be one of those who's reaction is getting worse. In the past, a bee or hornet sting would be an annoyance at most, and would subside in a matter of minutes. Starting last year, I started developing a strong local reaction, with swelling and itching that lasted for days. Friday, I accidentally put my finger on a bee while doing an inspection, and got stung for my trouble. My finger swelled up like a sausage, and developed water blisters on both sides, which are filled with blood and plasma. The swelling continued up my hand and forearm, and for 2 days, my hand has been pretty much useless. The swelling is starting to subside now (Sunday), but it will be a couple of weeks before I'm back to normal.
I for one, will be wearing full protection while working my bees.


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## Unaweep (Apr 24, 2015)

No, but i have found a couple shots of Tequila helps......


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