# A thought about low impact brood cycle breaking



## Dundrave (Jun 1, 2008)

I read this thread last night -
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=220426

It got me thinking. I keep reading about how breaking the brood cycle is so vital for overwintering bees with regards to the V. Mites. I keep hearing about re-queening or catching and caging the queen for a short period of time, in order to break the cycle and set the mites back. I was wondering if it would be a lower impact control and easier on the queen, if instead you used two queen excluders and brood box of new foundation to isolate the queen, which would break the cycle and get bees to draw out new comb to replace older frames with. 

I am new and this is all theory to me... But my mental wheels are spinning. The concept of killing/pinching/offing a queen is distasteful to me and the idea of catching the queen seems incredibly hard.

Let me know what you experienced folks think.

Dundrave


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

If you put the queen where there is drawn comb, of course she will simply continue to lay. If you put her on bare foundation, the bees often ignore her and raise a new one. This would give you a break. But killing her would have the exact same result.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Push that queen and some bees onto foundation, and remove the hive, requeen the old, and feed the new split. That would act in a way as a swarm would. I dont know if its practical, just a thought


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## LAS (Jul 16, 2007)

*push in cage??*

Would a push in cage accomplish the same thing, or would you have to contain the queen to long. 


Ian, sounds like a split to me, were you thinking something else? And could this be two birds with one stone. meaning a summer split to make increases and brood cycle break for a colony with medium to high varroa populatins.
what do you think?


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

I'd just grab the frame with the queen on it and put it in a 4 or 5 frame nuc, add another frame or two of sealed brood and a frame of nectar/pollen, and shake a few more bees into it and move it away. Make sure you leave behind frames with eggs. What you left behind will raise you a new queen, going broodless while doing so. I'd poweder sugar treat the queenless one a couple days before the queen should be hatching. 

This way, you still have your old queen, just incase the new one doesn't work out, and can keep her in a nuc as a backup.


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## LAS (Jul 16, 2007)

*Popular topic!*

I just read anther post about this subject by BjornBee, "Total concept of splits,brood breaks,and mites. I think most of my qeustions were answered ther check it out.


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## Troy (Feb 9, 2006)

Another problem with the original theory of putting the queen in a box of foundation is that you'd probably be doing this in late summer or fall when the bees are less likely to draw comb.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

>>were you thinking something else

nope, thats what its is.

I dont see any practicality in it, but in terms of the original thought, perhaps it might work.


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## cmq (Aug 12, 2003)

*Pinching a queen*



Dundrave said:


> I read this thread last night -
> http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=220426
> 
> The concept of killing/pinching/offing a queen is distasteful to me
> Dundrave


I must be a man of poor taste A queen that does not stand up to my standards can do nothing but offer poor genes that will ultimately slow down or limit my selection process.
Anyone who cant pinch a queen should never attempt their hand in improvement.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Dundrave,

Here is a thread I started to expand upon the whole "Break the brood cycle" thought. I see it more along the lines of not just breaking the brood cycle, but increasing your numbers to allow overwintering without worrying about nature culling out a few which means perhaps some can get away from treating, having young queens that studies have shown pay for themselves in so many way (less swarming, more brood, more honey, etc.), being able to select your own stock and raise some local queens, among other things.

I think if done after the flow, brood breaks can be part of summer splits and a wider benefit can be gained.


http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=220491


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