# Deep Nuc's at Supers?



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I have nuc boxes whose bottoms aren't permenently attatched. They are held on w/ wires attatched to the box and the bottom board by a screw in the box and a screw in the bottom board, front and back. I find these reaL usable when making splits in the spring.

I can also use a bottomless nuc box as a super, which I do if I haven't transfered, or sold, all of my nucs into full sized boxes(ie 10 frame). I don't super nucs for honey production, but I don't know why it wouldn't work. You'd probably have to keep a closer eye on them, perhaps. I imagine others know.

Have fun w/ your experiment and let us know how it works.

Most people I know avoid picking up a full deep of honey by running brood nests in deeps and honey supers in mediums or shallows. W/ little if any problems.


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## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

One of the arguments of top bar hive proponents is eliminating the heavy lifting. Single frames can be lifted and transferred even easier than top bars and they come out of the extractor better. Who ever said you have to lift whole supers? Is there some code of beekeeping or "its just the ways its always been done"? My top bar hives are made for 19 inch bars so I can really mix it up!


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## RiodeLobo (Oct 11, 2010)

It seems to me that if you wanted to do the standard 5 frame you could attach some 1X2 or other scrap lumber so it was flush with the top of the full sized deep(on 2 sides). That would make the edges flush when you supered the nucs.

But i have never tried it.

Good luck. I would like to see pics of what you come up with, if possible.

Dan


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## Countryboy (Feb 15, 2009)

Using nucs as supers will result in a tall hive which will easily fall over.

If you want to use deeps as supers, simply transfer frames into another box so you aren't killing yourself trying to carry the whole box. Just carry a few frames at a time.

Yes, it will take more time, but it will allow you to use all deep boxes without killing yourself carrying deeps that are full of honey.


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## Reid (Dec 3, 2008)

Countryboy said:


> Using nucs as supers will result in a tall hive which will easily fall over.


I'm not talking about supering with only 1 nuc, but 2 nucs side-by-side. There would be absolutely no structural difference between a full deep and two nucs in this configuration.
-Ken


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## Reid (Dec 3, 2008)

RiodeLobo said:


> It seems to me that if you wanted to do the standard 5 frame you could attach some 1X2 or other scrap lumber so it was flush with the top of the full sized deep(on 2 sides).


Good idea. I'll consider that as well. And yes, I'll post pics if it works out (or not).
-Reid


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## Reid (Dec 3, 2008)

AmericasBeekeeper said:


> Who ever said you have to lift whole supers? Is there some code of beekeeping or "its just the ways its always been done"?


Funny you said that! It's exactly what I posted a couple of years back. I also said something to the effect of _"Don't any of you have friends? You all seem to be a likable enough_". 
Pulling out half the frames of a deep is exactly what I do at my home apiary because all the hives are 8 ft off the ground on my carport roof. The other locations I have hives are less restrictive.
The problem arises when pulling honey just after the main flow. We've been inundated with bees trying to rob in just a few minutes after pulling a box and breaking apart and pulling out 5 of the frames. Having a box that can quickly be set aside and covered without additional screwing with it is preferable. But you're right, it may not be worth it. We will see.
~Reid


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Back when I ran all deeps I made some 4 frame deep nuc boxes that would work side by side on a ten frame deep for supers. This allowed me to get some drawn comb in deeps without having to lift the entire box. But then I cut them all down to mediums and then I cut all the hives down to eight frame boxes.


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## Reid (Dec 3, 2008)

sqkcrk said:


> I have nuc boxes whose bottoms aren't permanently attached. They are held on w/ wires attached to the box and the bottom board by a screw in the box and a screw in the bottom board, front and back.


Sounds like what I've put together for the same purpose. I've been using those to transfer honey off my carport roof, where 4 of my 20 hives are located. 




sqkcrk said:


> Most people I know avoid picking up a full deep of honey by running brood nests in deeps and honey supers in mediums or shallows. W/ little if any problems.


They do around here at all, but the convenience of running all the same frames (especially when you run all foundationless and an unlimited brood nest, like I do). I need to be able to move frames up or down as necessary.
~Reid


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## Reid (Dec 3, 2008)

Michael Bush said:


> Back when I ran all deeps I made some 4 frame deep nuc boxes that would work side by side on a ten frame deep for supers. This allowed me to get some drawn comb in deeps without having to lift the entire box. But then I cut them all down to mediums and then I cut all the hives down to eight frame boxes.


So, it sounds like it worked fine for you, other than the fact they were deep frames and standard 10 frame boxes. 

Did you use the nucs as supers? Or just to get comb drawn?

You had no complications? Like weather? Nothing to note concerning the division above the broodnest? 
~Reid


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Did you use the nucs as supers?

Yes.

> Or just to get comb drawn?

That was my main motivation. But also to cut down on lifting. I did still have a lot of shallows and mediums around as well as deeps but was trying to standardize on deeps.


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## Reid (Dec 3, 2008)

Michael Bush said:


> >....but was trying to standardize on deeps.


Good deal. I've had really good winter survival in my area with 9 frame deeps and follower-boards, though iwombat has had the same success with 8 frame mediums. I'll give this idea a try and see how it goes. 
Thanks for the input!
~Reid


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## iwombat (Feb 3, 2009)

Namedropper!

In reality, I'm overwintering in 1 deep and 2 mediums. Although now that everyone seems to want medium nucs, I'll be changing a few over to all mediums this year.


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## KevinR (Apr 30, 2010)

I wouldn't see any problem with it. Aside from the fact that your going against the grain that I see most people going.

i.e. all deeps vs mediums.

But with that said, most nucs are still deeps. *shrugs*

I've seen pictures of hives in all shapes, sizes, and configurations. I really don't think the bees would care, as long as it's not 8ft high and the queen smell doesn't come up that far. But even then, I doubt it will matter a lot.

I'm trying to standardize on all mediums, bit I find myself constantly having to get a deep for this or that. *mumbles*


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I think the deeps multiply... there always seem to be some around despite me cutting them down all the time...


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## Reid (Dec 3, 2008)

KevinR said:


> I wouldn't see any problem with it. Aside from the fact that your going against the grain that I see most people going.


I tend to go against the grain frequently and I don't have too many colonies (yet), and plan to stay between 20 and 30 colonies for awhile. So, switching to all mediums wouldn't be too much of a problem, though finding a good use for all the cut down deep pieces will be interesting. Extending mediums to deeps in a little easier than the other way around.
~Reid


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## iwombat (Feb 3, 2009)

Seems like I'm always needing a shim for one thing or another. Those cut-down pieces come in pretty handy.


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## Countryboy (Feb 15, 2009)

Why not run all shallows if you want the same size frames in everything, and a shallow super of honey is a lot lighter than a deep.

Stack two empty shallow boxes, and you can drop deep frames in if you want to install a deep nuc. Put shallow frames int he empty spots, and you can phase out the deep frames and put in shallows pretty easy.


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## Reid (Dec 3, 2008)

Countryboy said:


> Why not run all shallows if you want the same size frames in everything . . .


Interesting. That really would make the whole process lighter, but shallows might not allow for much of a functional comb height. Without actually trying it out, it seems that the bees would prefer a more unbroken comb face. Obviously no boxes really allow for comb hight like that in a natural tree cavity, but plenty of beeks have commented that the bees will concentrate the brood nest in the deep box if given the choice between deeps and other height boxes. 
Thoughts?
~Reid


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Everything is a trade off. If you go to all shallows, you have all of the disadvantages of the mediums but even more so (more frames to buy and build, more boxes to buy and build) and the queen has less open space to lay in. But you would save some weight. However, I find the eight frame mediums are just the right weight for me, and just the right width for the cluster to winter and just short enough that the queen will easily move to the next box. So build a few more frames and boxes is worth saving money on back surgery and having my hives overwinter well.

If I had all eight frame shallows I'd be tempted to pick up two of them all the time because they aren't quite a load... but two is a little over...


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## Countryboy (Feb 15, 2009)

Yes, a queen prefers a large comb to lay in - but they will lay in shallows too if that's what is available. If someone offered you a steak or a hamburger, what would you choose? I might prefer a steak like a queen prefers a large comb to lay in, but I won't turn down a hamburger if that is what is available.

Rig up some boxes and see what weight your wife is comfortable working with - the bees can work with whatever you give them. Compare weights of 8 or 10 frame boxes in mediums and shallows. Find the comfortable weight and work from there to decide box size.

The difference between ideal and just good enough for the bees may not be much to a hobbyist beekeeper.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Countryboy said:


> Rig up some boxes and see what weight your wife is comfortable working with -


RIGHT!!! the day my wife helps with bee work I will faint away and fall to the ground. Though, the whole family IS darned good at pocketing honey sales cash.


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## Countryboy (Feb 15, 2009)

Psst. Read post #1. His wife actually helps work the bees.

_I've seen a few pictures of this setup floating around the web, but never seriously considered it until my wife started helping manage the bees. She is tough, but expecting her to lift a 90 lb deep off a 3 story colony is stupid (or so I've been told )._


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## Reid (Dec 3, 2008)

Countryboy said:


> Psst. Read post #1. His wife actually helps work the bees.[/I]


Indeed she does. Not only does she do inspections, as of this year she captured a couple of swarms and helped with 5 cutouts. Two of these cut outs we did on the same day, and one was in the crenelation on a two story brick apartment building. Access to the flat roof was via a 40 ft extension ladder. Yes, we were fully roped up with full body harnesses and I had her on belay up and down the ladder, which was fully secured to the building.
But, my 7 year old daughter is very proficient at pocketing the honey sales cash. She worked out the percentages and informed my wife and I that her 4 hours of honey stand work was worth 50% of the cash.


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