# Winter Behavior - Bees on Inner Cover



## MES613 (Nov 19, 2010)

This is my first beekeeping winter. Yesterday, I went to check on my hives, and observed something that I did not expect. The temperature was 45 degrees, sun shining and no wind. All six of my hives are two deeps, with screened or solid bottom boards, notched inner covers topped with insulation board and covered with a telescoping outer cover, allowing an upper entrance and moisture ventilation from the top. All are covered in black roofing paper.

I wrapped on all six of my hives and wasn't certain whether I heard any buzzing. So, fearing the worst, I gently lifted the outer cover from one side and observed hundreds of bees in each hive on top of the inner cover (and below the foam insulation board), generally clustered around the hole in the inner cover. Happy to see bees alive in the hives, I quickly re-covered the hives.

I wasn't expecting to see that many bees clustered around the opening in the inner cover, assuming that if my bees were alive, they would be clustered somewhere in the hive.

So, my question is simple. Have you observed this behavior before? Is it cause for worry? Is this a sign that the bees have moved all the way up in the hive and are starting to "flow" out the top? Or that they've run out of stores and that I need to do some emergency feeding?

I'd be grateful for any insight.


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

Probably out of stores. I would do a quick inspection on each to see what their condition is... Wear a suit, they are testy this time of year.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

I have about the same thing going on. I have 2 1/2" feeder rims to hold mountain camp sugar and the bees in several hives are thru the sugar and hanging from the homosote I have over the feeder rim. The cluster was still partly in the frames and there is not a thing I can do about it, so I am not worried for now. Nothing you can do about it except make sure they have feed in the frames they are on.


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## WWW (Feb 6, 2011)

As the others have said, I would feed them, a bag of sugar is cheap insurance.....Bill


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## windfall (Dec 8, 2010)

I asked about more or less the same thing a few weeks ago. The responses I received were that many people note their clusters wintering at the top all winter long...particularly on "warmish" days like you describe. Although I think it probably gets noticed on those days because that's when folks get brave and peak.
I have been told it is not a consistent indicator of low stores....but can be.
I have also read numerous reports of bees going up to the top to scavenge condensation to drink on those days when they can break tight cluster. Perhaps that is what you saw.


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## MES613 (Nov 19, 2010)

Thanks for the advice. I guess I thought that once you packed them up for the winter, you sat back and hoped that you had done it all right last summer/fall. "Take care of the bees that take care of the bees that go in to winter." 

So, how do you feed the bees this time of year with large swings in ambient temperature? 

Would I put raw sugar in a hive-top feeder? Sprinkle some raw sugar on top of the inner cover? I have shallow supers with frames of capped stored syrup from last summer that I was saving for the spring. Should I put those on top of the deeps and put the inner cover and foam insulation on top of that and then top it all off with the telescoping cover?

I saw a presentation at the ABF meeting in Las Vegas where a Michigan beek used some sort of sugar block in a 2-inch top box, but I was confused about its construction. Might be the same concept as the "feeder rims" that Vance G recommends. Is there a bottom to that box, or does the sugar block just rest on top of the frames? If there is some kind of bottom, how do the bees get through? Do you just cut a couple of holes in the bottom and hope that they move up through them and find their way back down to the cluster? How about 1/4" hardware cloth? Would that work?

Is fondant better than sugar?

Again, I'd appreciate any insights.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

MES613 said:


> Thanks for the advice. I guess I thought that once you packed them up for the winter, you sat back and hoped that you had done it all right last summer/fall.
> 
> Is fondant better than sugar?


Hoping and wishing and praying won't save your bees. You need to go back and check the feed. 

I've looked at a dozen or so of my many apiaries. I too am seeing the clusters at the top of the hive, but they seem to have enough feed for now. Carefully lift that inner cover again. Do you see capped honey? Are the bees in contact with that honey? Jab you hive tool into the comb in the first seam of bees. Does it come up with honey on it? If yes, they're ok until the end of the month. Then, do it again.

If you feel they are low on food stores then yes by all means give them fondant on top of the cluster or sugar around that inner cover hole where the bees are clustering. You should be able to start feeding 2:1 syrup later in March if this warm weather continues.

I like fondant better than sugar. I think it's easier for the bees to use, and less of a mess for you. Wrap it in waxed paper to prevent drying out. Score paper and place directly on the cluster.

By the way...next year duct tape the inner cover hole so the bees won't cluster above the inner cover. The bees will chew a hole in your foam insulation.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Michael Palmer said:


> Hoping and wishing and praying won't save your bees.


You left out worrying. Yesterday I did the same thing and like others the top of the inner cover was covered.
I have found out that most things that I worry about turns out to be for not. So I will continue worrying and see if I left enough honey for them to make it to Spring.
One thing I am sure of is the display of flying bees I saw last week was not robbing. They are alive in the hive.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Here is a photo I took Christmas eve, Western Wa. It was unusually warm here that day, around 55 Degrees> Upon inspection of my hives about 1/3 of them are clustered in the bottom deep, 1/3 are in both the top and bottom deeps and 1/3 are in the top deep box. I was also concerned when I saw how many bees were at the top of this hive this early in the winter. You can see I use a screened top inner cover. I lifted one side of the hive and it was very heavy. Upon further inspection, I found the bees were solid in about 6 frames the bottom deep, 4-5 frames in the second deep and on the top as you see in the photo. I removed the old pollen patty and added dry sugar just to be on the safe side. Days later when the weather was cooler all these bees has moved back down on the frames to cluster










Here are how they are housed. Right side bigger hives, Mostly Double deeps, screened top inner cover with upper entrance, shallow super with burlap shavings filled sack, migratory covers with 3/4" rubber mat on the top. Insulation on two sides.

Left bench are nucs and smaller hives. Same insulation set up on top.

My weather is generally mild here, 25 to 55 degrees average winter temps.




















You can see I have a small gap in the rubber mat. It should be tight to assure a water proof barrier. They actually were tight when I cut them, but I cut them on a warm day and they contract/expand quite a bit with temp changes. I knew they did that, but did not think on a small piece it would make a difference. So cut them on a cool day. A bead of black silicone will help these. I make my migratory covers with plywood now, cover with aluminum then rubber mat in the winter. Best of both worlds in a top.









The bees have sure been active this winter with the mild temps. Not just cleansing flights, but they are on a mission. As of Feb 4th, I added pollen patties and dry sugar to all my hives, even though they are all still very heavy. I had virtually no brood in any of them, but lots of bees. I fear with their activity, their life spans may be shortened and wanted to get the next generation on the way before too long. I have them on a heating cable so if I get a bad cold snap and they have brood, I can just plug it in.(It's thermostatically controlled to come on at about 35 degrees and off at 48) Won't have to worry about chilled brood.


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## spunky (Nov 14, 2006)

MES613 :
I have seen it done numerous ways, winter feeding of bees. This year I did the newspaper/dry sugar method worked great. I have seen hardware cloth stapled to the bottom of a 2 inch shim, you could use a super,medium or deep hive body and semi moist cane sugar packed in around. Alot of ways 

Good luck

Thanks for those great pics Lauri


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## Slow Modem (Oct 6, 2011)

Lauri said:


> Here are how they are housed. Mostly Double deeps, screened top inner cover with upper entrance, shallow super with burlap shavings filled sack, migratory covers with 3/4" rubber mat on the top. Insulation on two sides. My weather is generally mild here, 25 to 55 degrees average winter temps.


That's an impressive setup! I'm curious about the awning. Is it for shade or to keep the weather off or what?


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Western Washington is quite a wet state. The awning is to keep off most of the rain. Helps the woodenware stay in good shape over the winter and is nice for feeding with a glass jars through a hole in the migratory tops. That rubber mat covers the holes when I am done feeding.










Heres how I cut the rubber mat. Let gravity open up the scoring cut for you.










Heres how that set up worked when we had a bad snow and ice storm..LOL, The awning partially collapsed. Guess I shoud have had it engineered<LOL. I used some brackets to mount the roof pannel and did not use a set screw. One of the brackets just slipped a bit. I wasn't thinking of a big snow load when I made it. The hives are also on these brackets with two set screws, but I added cinder blocks to hold the additional fall hive weight...Just to be on the safe side. In the summer these hives are spaced out a bit and not nearly as heavy.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

It shows how locality plays into everything. If I put that awning up, it would blow away the first day...


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## WWW (Feb 6, 2011)

Lauri, that last pic with the snow should be on a post card; Maybe you could contact Hallmark and profit a little from it. perhaps you could call it "Bees in Winter" :applause:


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

It was beautiful...right up to the point where it turned ugly. Here are three photos of the same trees. Crimson King Maples

October:









When the snow first fell:










Then turned to an Ice storm- Wow, it really made a mess. I lost about 1/3 of my maples and hybrid poplars










Yikes! We are still cleaning up.










This last photo is on the east side of our property. I wanted to trim the trees to get more morning sun on the hives and garden, but LOL, not quite like this!


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Thanks for the pics Lauri.......Nice!


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Sure, glad to share. I like showing a photo better than trying to describe something. Folks can see exact details.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Lauri said:


> This last photo is on the east side of our property. I wanted to trim the trees to get more morning sun on the hives and garden, but LOL, not quite like this!


Nature's way of pruning, we may not like it but it weeds out the weak.


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## JamesYanco (May 6, 2010)

I to am in the same boat as other folks have said. Of my two hives one is doing fine with stores and location of bees, the other one has the bees bubbling up through the inner cover. I have been tossing dry sugar on the inner cover of the hive and the bees are consuming it. I am waiting till march to put my megabee Patties on the hives. My question is does anybody think I should add a super to the bubbling hive, for cluster expansion? Both hives are in double deeps.


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## WWW (Feb 6, 2011)

James, a shallow super would probably be fine if you have one, and just to let you know, I fed Mega Bee to a weak hive with no stores the entire winter last year and in the spring they turned into a booming hive. Have you considered giving your hive a sample and see if they will take it?....Bill


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## Bee Kid (Jan 3, 2010)

I noticed this behavior yesterday when I added some more sugar candy. It was in the mid to high forties if I remember correctly. I'm kind of thinking from some of the above replies that it doesn't necessarily mean that the bees are out of stores.  Though I have a lot less experience than most of the people on here so don't take my word for it. 
Good luck, 
BK


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## Roadstar (Nov 1, 2010)

I've seen this on our hives on cool days. By cool, I mean anything around 45 degrees or so, as we try to keep from going into the hives when it's below 40 or so. I think they cluster under the inner cover because that's where it is the warmest. Our hives have plenty of stores, so I don't feel they were looking for food.


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## JamesYanco (May 6, 2010)

WWW said:


> James, a shallow super would probably be fine if you have one, and just to let you know, I fed Mega Bee to a weak hive with no stores the entire winter last year and in the spring they turned into a booming hive. Have you considered giving your hive a sample and see if they will take it?....Bill


Thanks Bill.

Lesson learned today, go into hives this time of year with FULL gear. 

I no sooner cracked the lid on the hive in question when they where instantley in attack mode. Had my veil on and took one hit to my right hand. I did put half a megabee patti on the inner cover. I will look again in a couple days, with my smoker lite, and put a super on for added room. In the past I have rotated my deeps in spring, I'm thinking it might be a little early to start that. On a side note, I noticed today the bees are dragging the sugar out of the hive. Evident by the fact that the front landing board is speckled with it.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Nature's way of pruning

Nature has been pruning my full grown trees right off at the trunk in recent years. The trees do not take it very well... nor do I.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

You might not like what natue does but it is not your decision.


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