# Sugar syrup VS. HFCS



## river_rat2005 (Jan 19, 2009)

well im not that big yet but i do know that most hfcs tankers will only deliver 1/2 load to full load so unless you have a need for that much i would try to find a comm. beek near you and ask if you can buy it from hi to fill your tote. thats just my 2 cents


----------



## wabeeman (Dec 3, 2010)

I was using HFCS but started to hear bad things so did a little research and subsequently switched to sugar. HFCS at that time was slightly cheaper, but I had to drive a ways to get it. Not scientific by any means but my bees seem to be healthier using sugar. I buy a pallet at a time from the local restaurant supply store. One beek I know mixed in 55 gal drums, used hot water, had a pipe that hooked to the air hose, pipe to bottom of drum and let the air do the mixing. He ran 4000 and fed ONLY sugar.


----------



## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

When we used sugar it was quite a labor intensive operation to prepare a 275 gal tote. When the cost of sugar to prep a tote reached $1000 we changed to HFCS. You have to look around a little bit but usually you can find it at some food preparation companies. We found ours at a pickle factory. Right now a full tote of HFCS costs about $700... and this we dilute to about 350 gal for spring/summer feed. Thus far I have not seen any difference in the two... just less work.


----------



## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

HFCS is a lot cheaper then sugar. I bought a 1/2 load for $4550 and that feeds the 650 packages and 300 splits I'll run this year. That less then $5 a hive. You would more then double that with sugar. Find a factory that will work with you and HFCS would be the way to go.


----------



## MTINAZ (Jan 15, 2010)

The Honey Householder said:


> HFCS is a lot cheaper then sugar.



Do you add water to thin it down for the packages?


----------



## G B (Nov 6, 2009)

The commercial beeks I work with here in the valley have told me I can go right to the plant and get HFCS, just have to pay a couple cents more per pound when putting in barrells or totes. I can check out prices and availabilty if you want or get you a phone number take care George B


----------



## MTINAZ (Jan 15, 2010)

G B pm sent. If I could just find a flat bed one ton I could get my totes and fill them up.


----------



## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

FYI:
Some of us dilute the syrup by 10% to make pumping easier and to prevent crystalization. Fill the 10% water in the tank first and add the HFCS second so that the water and syrup mix.
As far as the difference between the two syrups and the bees, my best bees are the ones that are fed HFCS that's about 50% liquid sucrose.
Good luck,
Ernie


----------



## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

I have to agree with Bees4u the bees looking bees I have ever seen are on HFCS. i have fed 1to1 sugar water and that got old. A HFCS/sugar syrup mix is what i use, and the hives are literally exploding. 

mike


----------



## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Come on Ernie everybody knows that HFCS is evil stuff and sugar is the only way to go right? Its easy to talk down HFCS until it comes time to write out the check. I asked the guy that brokers our syrup recently how much sucrose they sell (at least to our part of the country) and he said he sells maybe one load of sucrose to 50 loads of HFCS.


----------



## bigbore (Feb 25, 2008)

The only real issue with HFCS is that when it gets hot (120 F+) it will break down and produce a toxic compound in it. can't be tasted, smelled, or seen in any way. only 2 ways to test it, in a lab, or by feeding it. small levels wouldn't hurt a person, would be enough to kill bees. I trust my source, and don't feed it in the summer. Mine put on a lot of their winter food with it last year, cause they could put it up faster than sugar, and a lot easier to deal with.


----------



## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

I would by sucrose (Thinking it is non corn) but cannot seem to find it. 

mike


----------



## Eric Baxter (Sep 9, 2010)

From my understanding HFCS is more difficult for the bees to digest and hard on there stomach. I think most people around here use sugar.Except for the large commercial guys only because of the time and labor with mixing and measuring sugar to water. That's strait from the horses mouth.


----------



## bfriendly (Jun 14, 2009)

Personally I have no problem with HCFS for spring feed (high temp issue has been mentioned, but importance of a good supplier (preferably who sells to other beeks already) should be considered),

..but I prefer sucrose or a hcfs/sucrose mix for fall. Take this with a grain of salt, I am small scale.


----------



## soupcan (Jan 2, 2005)

Who is telling you that HFCS is hard on a Bees inner workings?


----------



## Allen Martens (Jan 13, 2007)

I switch from HFCS to sucrose several years back and every time I pay for sucrose I reconsider. However, several studies on bee longevity for caged bees have sucrose winning every time.

http://projectapism.org/content/view/66/27/

And then I keep staying with sucrose and wondering which makes most sense or cents economically.


----------



## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

Jim Lyon wrote"Come on Ernie everybody knows that HFCS is evil stuff....." 

http://www.sweetenerproducts.com/website/Products.aspx

I posted *my observations.*
Ernie


----------



## G B (Nov 6, 2009)

Hello Mtn. I talked to both of my commercial friends, they order their HFCS through Mannlake or Dadant. Then it is trucked by a matinelli's truck. The supplier is ADM but I cant find out who theresupplier is here in Phoenix. You might want to talk to a guy in flagstaff. His name is Dennis ARP runs enough hives that I am sure he buys syrup and he may have some left over from this winter. His companyt is mountain top honey company. 383 choctaw flagstaff az 86001 phone 525-1671. Good luck George B:thumbsup:


----------



## MTINAZ (Jan 15, 2010)

GB thanks I got some hives from dennis last year and was thinking of calling him. I am going to be in mesa this weekend but don't think I will have time to pick up any syrup. Any flowers in the desert yet?


----------



## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

MTINAZ said:


> Do you add water to thin it down for the packages?


My pumps in the shop take it straight, no water. Most of the HFCS get sprayed into the combs. I heat it to 150 deg. and use 120 psi on the sprayer. Fills the combs full quick. Spray in 2 1/2 to 3 gal. per brood box.


----------



## MTINAZ (Jan 15, 2010)

. Most of the HFCS get sprayed into the combs. I heat it to 150 deg. and use 120 psi on the sprayer. Fills the combs full quick. Spray in 2 1/2 to 3 gal. per brood box.[/QUOTE said:


> What kind of sprayer do you use? Is it like a paint sprayer that hooks to your compressor?


----------



## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

Custom build 30 gal. sprayer. The tank is build out of 1/4" steel. Fruit spray on steroids.


----------



## G B (Nov 6, 2009)

Not very much for flowers yet, got somw rain a few days ago, should help. Take care GB


----------



## boknows honey bee's (May 19, 2010)

Sorry for not at this point not knowing what HFCS is but could some one please tell me what it stands for. Bo:


----------



## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

http://www.beesource.com/resources/elements-of-beekeeping/beekeeping-glossary/


----------



## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Hey Bo, are you sure you know bee's?


----------



## MTINAZ (Jan 15, 2010)

I found a supplier. Crocketts Honey sells it for 35 cents/lb.


----------



## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

That sounds high... hope that is not indicative of a big price increase over the winter.


----------



## Pyrotechnician (Feb 21, 2011)

5 gallon bucket of corn syrup at the Amish store for $35, good deal? Actually the only deal I can find on it around here so it good to me...


----------



## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

I believe that is over .50 per pound... at that price it would be cheaper to dissolve 30 pounds of sugar in a 5 gall bucket. Looks like they are marking that HFCS up too high. We pay about .20 per pound for HFCS, but that is bulk. On a small scale it looks to be cheaper (perhaps better for the bees) to stick to sugar.


----------



## wabeeman (Dec 3, 2010)

Here's why I switched back to sugar only from HFCS.
http://www.beeculture.com/storycms/index.cfm?cat=Story&recordID=686

As I said in an earlier post, anecdotaly the girls seem healthier. They certainly take the sugar more readily than the HFCS. As far as price, don't forget you're paying for a lot of water along with the HFCS. Mostly, IMHO, I simply don't like the implications of the above article. Also, when I picked up pkgs at Parks last year I noticed he had pallets and pallets of sugar. Never got a chance to ask about it but he seems a pretty frugal guy. I'm guessin' if he's using it there's a very good reason...more than JUST $$$. Or maybe it's entirely $$$? Maybe he's had better results with sugar too so it ends up being cheaper in the long run?:scratch:


----------



## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

For me sugar is cheaper


----------



## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

Sundance... in your area what can you buy a lb of sugar for?


----------



## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Last I bought was 11 cents a pound, but that
was 3 years ago and it was a 2000 pound tote bag.

But I am near the Red River Valley and major sugar
production.


----------



## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

At .11 per pound... I see your point! The best we can do around here... even in bulk... is .50 per pound.. then throw in the labor of dissolving a ton or so of it in totes and.. well you can see why we use HFCS.


----------



## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

>at Parks last year I noticed he had pallets and pallets of sugar.

Probably Drivert. I know they buy it by the truckload. I buy granulated by the pallet (2500 lbs) and too many times a season!. I don't get any good deal on it from costco, but its convenient when I need it. I wonder what a 1/2 tanker of liquid sugar is going for now? I do know sugar prices are bouncing all over the place. Mostly up.


----------



## StevenG (Mar 27, 2009)

Last week at a local Sam's Club, 50# bag of sugar was 62 cents a pound. :doh:
Regards,
Steven


----------



## FarmerJ (Feb 23, 2011)

StevenG said:


> Last week at a local Sam's Club, 50# bag of sugar was 62 cents a pound. :doh:
> Regards,
> Steven


Just picked up a 50lb bag today for $26.29 at Sam's. Still think I shoulda picked up 3-4 today.


----------



## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

Not going to comment on what i pay for HFCS 55, but it is much less than buying sugar, my time, and a sticky porch/kitchen. I drive a little less than a hour, syrup goes in the barrel, then i am done for the day. I do make some sugar syrup for mixing in with the corn syrup, man talk about booming colonies when on this mix. I think the sugar and corn syrup both have different sugars, so a combo gives a good mix of what they need. 
Mike


----------



## Pyrotechnician (Feb 21, 2011)

Kingfisher Apiaries said:


> ....... I do make some sugar syrup for mixing in with the corn syrup,.......
> Mike


Care to share you mixing formula with this complete rookie? As I have a 5 gallon bucket of corn syrup waiting for me to pickup and new bees due in 3 weeks from today. Many thanks!


----------



## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Barry said:


> http://www.beesource.com/resources/elements-of-beekeeping/beekeeping-glossary/


Pretty cool feature Barry didn't know that existed. But to be honest it reminded me of Mrs. Pitkin in 5th grade. "Now Jimmy I'm not going to tell you the answer you have a dictionary in your desk thats what it's for" You just couldnt reason with that woman.


----------



## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

Well i might share my formula, but cannot give you all of it as I am borrowing from someone else, email me @ [email protected] and we can talk.

mike


----------



## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Anybody know the prosess of mixing tank using an 18 inch auger for dry sugar? I know it is use up in Canada alot.


----------



## Skinner Apiaries (Sep 1, 2009)

I went hybrid, mixing sugar into hfcs, all the fun math included is a superior product for several reasons. I'll leave the marketing to mann lake to explain this. For small amounts of HFCS dadant sells it at their outlets.<snip by mod> Finding cheap sugar is an art. I hear the railyards in savannah are a good place for free sugar...


----------



## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

The ethanol vs food thread is now at Tailgator if anyone is interested in following that discussion.

Sheri


----------

