# Steps to Legalize Oxalic Acid in US



## Brandy (Dec 3, 2005)

Not wanting to hijack any of the current Oxalic Acid threads, could someone explain/describe why Oxalic Acid is not approved for use in the US as a varroa treatment. I would think if it's success is as great as currently being described that everyone would be jumping on the bandwagon. If it's cost in the registration or requiring testing, hasn't that already been done in other areas of the world and could/would carry over?? 

If it's because the cost of the material is so low no one would benefit from selling it, I get that. But why hasn't any USDA branch or University working with bees helped get this material approved for use?? Appreciate any thoughts...


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## mdax (Apr 29, 2013)

It's simple, there is no money in it...not for companies, universities or the usda.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

One problem is that there isn't a practical way (yet) for the outfit paying for the testing/registration process to capture money from customers of the oxalic acid treatment (beekeepers) in sufficient quantity to repay the costs involved and make a profit for the said outfit.

Oxalic acid is cheap, and can be purchased in many places. No need to buy it from XYZ Corp sold as a specialized _VarroaFighter_®™ at a monopoly price.


OK, that is a cynical view, but it accurately reflects the state of the pesticide registration system that we currently have in the US.


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## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

That's about it, how are the Employment Prevention Agency going to fill their pockets on the use of oxalic acid
Johno


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

According to the EPA representatives who were present at the Md. State Beekeepers Mtg. on 02/15/14. OA is no longer listed as a pesticide and they (EPA) are actively pursuing its use as miticide and hope to have it approved for use in beehives later this year or early next.

Now that's saying something....

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## Brandy (Dec 3, 2005)

I wondered if anything further came from this from RO's site: Breaking news! Dr. Ellis reports that Heather Duncan, EPA region 7 administrator, has taken a leadership role in working to make OA available to beekeepers. She is working with a U.S. company that already has ties to the beekeeping industry to register a packaged product that is labeled for use in beehives to suppress Varroa mites. 

snl, 2/15/14 is a while ago....things work slowly eh?? With all the research for CCD you would "think" that if this was as successful as you all report in dealing with varroa, it would be front page...and USDA and Universities endorsing it's use.. Just didn't want to think we're back with the "blue shop towels" in use...


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Brandy said:


> snl, 2/15/14 is a while ago....things work slowly eh??


It is what it is, they did say at that time "later this year or early next."


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I agree, Wayne. That was way out of line.

Register OA? Why? Do we really need it registered for use as a pesticide? Won't that cause as many, if not more, problems as currently occur?


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

Brandy said:


> ..... She is working with a U.S. company that already has ties to the beekeeping industry to register a packaged product that is labeled for use in beehives to suppress Varroa mites....


I would imagine that the problem would be in creating packaging for this low-cost, effective material such that the pricing can measured in dollars rather than pennies per treatment.

Wayne


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

When the stuff sells for around $75 for a 25 kilo bag at my local corner chemical supply house why would anyone pay $1 or more a dose when the same results can be had for a few mere pennies.... ? 

The only reason I can see is because some power grabbing thug thinks he or she needs to fund their vacation on the backs of some beekeeper they deem to stupid to figure the label out themselves!

The stuff is not rocket science material for goodness sakes folks!!!!


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## SallyD (Mar 12, 2011)

Where do you buy it if it is not legal to sell in US?


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Sally......It is legal to buy and sell ....Ace Hardware, Ebay, Amazon among others. You just can't use it illegally....... Sorta like a gun. You can buy and sell it but just not use it illegally..........


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## gjt (Jul 24, 2014)

SallyD said:


> Where do you buy it if it is not legal to sell in US?


I vaguely remember making both oxalic and formic acids with my uncle from wood shavings from the lumber yard and lye.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Where is the Moderator when s/he is needed?


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## Mountain Bee (Apr 7, 2012)

Just wondering, if after reading all the studies and documents provide from the US, Europe or anywhere else for that matter on the use of OA as a mite treatment is there really people who won't use it for the only reason that the U.S. federal government has not deemed it as a legal mite treatment?


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Mountain Bee said:


> Just wondering, if after reading all the studies and documents provide from the US, Europe or anywhere else for that matter on the use of OA as a mite treatment is there really people who won't use it for the only reason that the U.S. federal government has not deemed it as a legal mite treatment?


I'm sure there are some..... However, when they either tire of losing their bees or paying the high price of other legal treatments and as the word gets out (more and more) on how well OAV controls mites and how easy and cheap it is to use, my guess is "they'll" start coming around. Some already have.....


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## Brandy (Dec 3, 2005)

Yes, I'm one that's coming late to this party and trying to figure out and understand if it's that great, why it's not offered legally....Why Beltsville or Baton Rouge aren't leading the parade. I don't get it. Trying to figure out if commercials are using it, safety down the road, what's the long term build up in the comb etc.. Due diligence. And yes, there's other options that are approved, since I'm not treating 500 hives I don't care the difference in cost vs. everything else.


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## Beeonefarms (Nov 22, 2013)

Yet this wonder product does not kill any bees within the wax brood chamber.. each cell holding hmmm 4-6 mites ready to go into new cells.... thus we apply more .. toxic levels increase .... more dead bees .. 
Let me know how well this silver bullet works out.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Brandy said:


> Trying to figure out if commercials are using it


Can't answer for the bee labs, but I can tell you many, many commercials are now using it.


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## Mountain Bee (Apr 7, 2012)

Beeonefarms said:


> Yet this wonder product does not kill any bees within the wax brood chamber.. each cell holding hmmm 4-6 mites ready to go into new cells.... thus we apply more .. toxic levels increase .... more dead bees ..
> Let me know how well this silver bullet works out.


I wouldn't claim it to be silver bullet but after doing my homework and tired of loosing bees it's the route I am going with treatment.


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

Beeonefarms said:


> .... thus we apply more .. toxic levels increase ....


Do you have any information regarding cumulative buildup of toxins due to OA? What exactly are the toxins that accumulate? And how are the toxic levels that you mention measured.?

Wayne


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Beeonefarms said:


> .. thus we apply more .. toxic levels increase .... more dead bees .. .


BF
Where is your documentation of this toxic level as it relates to OAV? Or is this just your conjecture?


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## Mountain Bee (Apr 7, 2012)

snl said:


> BF
> Where is your documentation of this toxic level as it relates to OAV? Or is this just your conjecture?


Before I went with the OAV treatment route I spent countless hours researching all types of mite treatments and found no documents where toxic levels of OA had accumulated in the hive.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

sqkcrk said:


> Where is the Moderator when s/he is needed?


Working


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Gee, _Barry_, you could just sell the _BeeMine _and live a life of luxury - and moderate Beesource 24/7.


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