# Sick "Black" Bees



## burns375 (Jul 15, 2013)

I've noticed some problems with a May swarm I caught. They've drawn out 2 deeps pretty solid, no feeding or anything, they have plenty of stores looking really good for the past few months. Well the past 2 weeks I've notice quite a few "black bees"... if you've ever seen bees that have been cooked, overheated you know what I mean. They are just black, no striping and there thorax and head is jet black. They are also a bit smaller. Only this hive is producing them. I took a look at the brood in the top box today and noticed it was very spotty, did not look in the second box. I noticed a section of brood that was opened up, dead fully developed dead bees. The queen is laying solid. The healthy bees are pulling out the black bees "fighting" with them, trying to get them out of the hive. i would say about at a rate of 50-100 per day, maybe more...hard to estimate while at work all day. The might count is low and no signs of robbing. 

This hive is no different than the other 6 I have at my home. I've never seen this before, any ideas. Ill take some pics tommorow.


----------



## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

Robbers?

I have not had robbing yet myself, but I watched some bees turn black when they were recovering honey from a partly harvested frame. I'd heard about robber bees being black, but it was remarkable to see them change.

I'm sure you'll get some answers from someone who really knows.


----------



## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

Chronic Bee Paralysis virus causes the symptom of hairless black bees. 
http://www.ent.uga.edu/bees/disorders/viral-diseases.html
http://www.honeybeesuite.com/chronic-bee-paralysis-virus/


----------



## burns375 (Jul 15, 2013)

Thanks jw...thats it to a t. Sad to know...all the comb in the hive is new this year except one starter comb pulled from a healthy 2 year old hive. The boxes are all new this year. Its so wierd that all of a sudden it showed up, they were doing so well, the virus must have been builiding up perhaps from thw hive they swarmed from...who knows

Any recomendations on what to do. Should I just trash everything. I can requeen no problem...but how would that stop the spread of virus. I welcome comments from anyone who has ever ex perienced first hand


----------



## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Nothing you can do...maybe re-queen. I've had colonies survive paralysis, but most dwindle when they lose bees like your's is.


----------



## burns375 (Jul 15, 2013)

Michael Palmer said:


> Nothing you can do...maybe re-queen. I've had colonies survive paralysis, but most dwindle when they lose bees like your's is.


Thanks mike, thats what i've afraid of. They've dwindled wuite a bit in just a short time, i noticed quite a few beetles too, more than a normal strong hive, however no larva outbreak yet. Im afraid the beetles will take over. 

Ill get a new queen in and say what happens. If they don't make, what do you recommend I do with the combs, honey, etc. From what I read suseptible to virus is greatly dependent on genetics.


----------



## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

I hate to even bring this up, but as a practical matter since it is spread by bee to bee contact would it be better to kill the hive with sulfur or something than to let them dwindle and drift? What do commercial beekeepers do?


----------



## burns375 (Jul 15, 2013)

Heres a few videos I took today around 8pm. Flight was dwindling down but still a decent population. We are on a bit of a flow, 3" of rain this weekend and 2" the 2 weeks before. They are drawing new comb. 

I unfortuntely don't have extra queens...I could pull from my nuc, but I would like to keep the nuc together for winter, would hate to end 2 hives. So I will probably buy one form Kelley's this weekend. 

2 videos total, BS would only let me post one


----------



## burns375 (Jul 15, 2013)

Anybody? Thoughts, opinions, similar experiences?


----------



## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

Do you also see dead bees in the hive. I have a hive having the same problem for over a month. the bees monitoring the bees coming in, a large pile of dead bees in front of the hive.
the brood and brood chambers appear fine, the higher you go up from the brood chambers into the supers, the more dead bees you find. They start to turn black, and lose control of motor functions, start dragging their hind legs and die on the end bars of the honey supers. I tried to take a video today but the quality wasn't very good, will try it in a few days.
I moved all the other hives out of the yard so I can try some things. I would requeen but don't have a spare queen handy. I have been doing a fumidil drench every three or four days but won't make any judgements about it's effectiveness until done for a month. I also clean out all the dead bees when I check them, but not sure anything will help. If I get a good video and can figure out how to get it uploaded without the manual will post it. I may also try some other treatments b/4 winter sets it. I have already marked the hive parts to be burned after they die.


----------



## burns375 (Jul 15, 2013)

i see saw a few, maybe 10-15 in 5 brood combs in the top box, dead bees in the comb that never emerged. The brood is very spotty though..I believe from population decline not enough nurse bees to care for brood properly anymore. The hive is still strong, but nearly as strong as it once was. By no means do I have piles of dead bees, but there are quite a few sick ones brought out of the hive every day. 

From what I've read there is no non anti-virus or cure for black hairless vius, so i doubt fumidil will not help. Im just wondering virus will run its course and go away on its own. Kinda like herpes...lol...bad comparison...but flairs up in summer than goes away until next year...or like chicken pox....something like that.


----------



## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

They may have picked it up by robbing a sick hive. That is how European Foul Brood is spread. If that is the case I'd strip them of honey and comb, then dose them in sugar water. Requeen if available, but set the bees to cleaning any virus out of their system by building comb? 

My experience is with EFB, and to get a full cure on it, the wax needs to go to candles and the honey to the humans. Not sure if this is true with the paralysis.


----------



## scorpionmain (Apr 17, 2012)

Sometimes it will run its course, go away, and the hive will recover.
Sometimes the hive will dwindle away to nothing.
It's just one of those things, I just kinda sit back & watch and see what happens.
It doesn't seem to spread from one hive to another, at least in my observations.


----------



## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

if these work I'll be amazed but here goes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-Unp1_Hq30

dead bees out front, for the squeamish don't watch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LWyiJcUPEo

dead bees on end of frames and dying bees walking around because they don't know they are dead yet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ny_8FwGBYUI

third one cut short to kill hive beatle.


----------



## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

Great videos


----------



## burns375 (Jul 15, 2013)

Hey thanks for video. Whats your experience with black hairless virus. Will they get over it or is the hive doomed or if they will recover. I do have bead bees out but not a big pile.


----------



## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

burns375 said:


> Hey thanks for video. Whats your experience with black hairless virus. Will they get over it or is the hive doomed or if they will recover. I do have bead bees out but not a big pile.


I have no clue, never had it b/4, my treatment of drenching with Fumidil every 3-4 days has decreased the amount of dead bees, but they are still showing symptoms.
a friend sent me a paper with a treatment, I'll copy it below.

Maybe ribaviran would work, but I don't think it is easy to get? I skimmed this guys thesis--he didn't use ribaviran on bpv though. 
http://www.personal.psu.edu/maf5081...ichael Freiberg- Master's Thesis May 2012.pdf

I ordered some ribaviran from Mexico, they guy said if I paid for the shipping and handling, I could get two for the price of one. couldn't pass up that deal

anyone know where to get ribaviran? Going to try adding mega doses of vitamin C, into the drench, since I'm going to burn the hive if it dies, I figure anything is worth trying.


----------



## burns375 (Jul 15, 2013)

Thanks for the info. Im just gonna let them go and see what happens. I was hoping to here from some folks who have had it in years past. 

I would be careful ordering medication over the internet, most of the stuff from mexico are fakes.


----------



## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

How is it going?


----------



## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

Gypsi said:


> How is it going?


not bad, having a lot of less dead bees in the hive, and less symptoms. That could be due to the medication, they may be just getting over it, or there could bee just less bees in the hive. :scratch: I'm bumping up the Vitamin C today, as I went back and reread what a person with the same symptoms had said about how much he used. I could requeen as a friend offered a queen but I want to see what happens.


----------

