# advantages of top bar beekeeping



## 11x (May 14, 2009)

i am going to give a little talk on the advantages of tbh at me next beeclub meeting. i am prety new at this top bar thing. can anyone give me some key points i can make than i will elaborate on them at the meeting.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Why, if you know so little about TBHs, are you giving a talk about them?
Do you, personally, see any advantages to TBH beekeeping?


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## 11x (May 14, 2009)

so far i got price- canmake from scrap wood to any size you want

natural cell size- many benifits

astetics- looks less like a beehive(urban beekeeping)

no supers- less heavy lifting

crush and strain-plenty of harvested wax to use for other projects

cut comb honey- brings more money in some markets


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## 11x (May 14, 2009)

well because the president of the club asked me to.....as far as i know i am the only one in the club that even has a clue what a top bar hive is. i know why i want them but i tend to look over some things. i want to get some more input to make shure i dont miss anything. 
i am not good at public speeking. i want to make a paper to use. like i said i need key points then i will elaborate on them. thank you mark for your positive assurance in spreading the word about top bar beekeeing. the question is do you mark see any advantages of top bar beekeeping? please share.


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

TBHs were conceived as a low or no cost way to keep bees in a primitive way for people without access to manufactured anything. That is there main advantage.


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## buckbee (Dec 2, 2004)

11x said:


> so far i got price- canmake from scrap wood to any size you want
> natural cell size- many benifits
> astetics- looks less like a beehive(urban beekeeping)
> no supers- less heavy lifting
> ...


- they enable the bees to build comb as they want to build it, without the constraints of foundation and frames

- they enable the beekeeper to see much of what is going on in the hive without having to take it apart: you see real bee behaviour, not the result of what happens when beekeepers open hives

- they are easy and cheap to build, needing little woodworking skill

- you are never dependent on the prices dealers choose to charge for equipment and spares

- they are about the only way people with disabilities can keep bees, as there is no lifting involved

- did I say there was NO LIFTING?

- honey can be harvested without disturbing the bees

- they are very stable (if you incorporate legs) and less likely to be toppled by wind or animals

Will that do for a start? Take a look at my site if you need more...

Good luck with your talk!


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## 11x (May 14, 2009)

tried to join the forum but i havent recived my conformation e-mail yet. been 3 days


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## Beethinking (Jun 2, 2008)

buckbee said:


> - did I say there was NO LIFTING?


Unless you count the lifting of heavy honey comb!



Matt


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## bigbearomaha (Sep 3, 2009)

I personally think it has a lot to do with expectations and remembering that it's not a competition.

One key point to bring up is that once one person is using a TBH, it does not mean everyone must adopt them as well.

Buckbee makes many good points above.

I say expectations because every hive type has it's pros and cons and I think every hive type fits a niche type of beekeeping more suitably than others.

If you expect to be a major honey producer and get the most extra honey out of each colony possible, TBH's may not necessarily be the best for that.

If you are conservation beekeeper and looking to provide a minimally intrusive, easily accessible hive, a TBH may very well fit your objectives.

Home hobby beekeepers may find a TBH well suited to their needs because as Buckbee says, they are not obvious to neighbors, they are managed one top bar at a time and there is not "too much" honey produced to make it unmanageable or overwhelming.

to each their own and vive la diferance

Big Bear


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## buckbee (Dec 2, 2004)

Your account is active.


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## 11x (May 14, 2009)

thank you. i am looking foward to being a part of the forum


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## laurelmtnlover (May 29, 2009)

I think you are on the right track. I am new to beekeeping, and this was really nice to start with. Lots to read on this forum. Let me know if you have any questions in particular. I'm laid up with a broken leg and ready to help!


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

buckbee said:


> - they enable the beekeeper to see much of what is going on in the hive without having to take it apart: you see real bee behaviour, not the result of what happens when beekeepers open hives
> 
> - honey can be harvested without disturbing the bees


Really? How do you see anything that is going on in the hive w/out taking it apart, opening it?

And how do you harvest honey w/out disturbing the bees?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

11x said:


> thank you mark for your positive assurance in spreading the word about top bar beekeeing. the question is do you mark see any advantages of top bar beekeeping? please share.


Well 11x, I'm glad that i didn't come across negative. I do encourage you to do what you enjoy and spread the word about why you do. 

Some suggestions about public speaking are to talk to the back of the room, look at the tops or foreheads of audience members, they won't know that you aren't looking them in the eye. If you are using a hand held microphone, hold it up to your chin. If the mike is stationery, you don't need to lean in to it for it to work, just talk as though you were talking to someone half way down the room.

Personally TBHs don't fit into my way of keeping bees. If I was only going to have one or two hives, perhaps they would.

I can't stand the idea of crushing and straining honey comb, when one could extract and reuse comb.

What ever floats your boat, as the saying goes.


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## buckbee (Dec 2, 2004)

sqkcrk said:


> Really? How do you see anything that is going on in the hive w/out taking it apart, opening it?


If you use a follower either side of the colony, you can simply move it aside an take a look at the brood end or the stores end. Vastly less invasive than ripping a super off a hive. 



> And how do you harvest honey w/out disturbing the bees?


Same thing. When the bees are busy foraging, you can take combs from the stores end and they hardly notice.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Interesting. I didn't know that.


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## lovettvineyard (Jun 26, 2007)

11x said:


> i am going to give a little talk on the advantages of tbh at me next beeclub meeting. i am prety new at this top bar thing. can anyone give me some key points i can make than i will elaborate on them at the meeting.


TBH's are a inexpensive way to start beekeeping. If you decide later that beekeeping wasn't your thing, you don't have a lot of money tied up in it.

They can be used as a transitional hive to move to Langs later.

That was how I started with 3 local swarms and have slowly over the last 4 years built my stock of Langs. I currently use both Langs and TBH's.

With no beekeeping suppliers close, building your own TBH's saves a lot of shipping costs also. 

I talked about TBH's at the last local meeting and the more experienced beeks didn't really listen and told me I make it sound too easy. Be ready to take some criticism. The new beeks seem to have a more open mind.

Let me know when your next meeting is and if i'm free, i'll come over and give you some support.


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

I have 2 TBH's [one Kenyan and one Tanzinanian] and one long hive [frames]. I do super my TBH when the hive gets full. i find, otherwise they either swarm or just shut down. I find the TBH's require more management than my long hive and produce less honey.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

"The object of a Top Bar Hive (TBH) is to be easy and cheap to construct, easy to work and having natural sized cells." -- http://www.bushfarms.com/beestopbarhives.htm


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## Delta Bay (Dec 4, 2009)

I have Kenya TBH's only so I can't really compare to other hives. 
When I first looked into having bees and all the health problems they were having I couldn't justify the cost of the equipment and bees if there was a good chance they were going to perish anyway. My cost was $30 using new material and their volume is in comparison of 3 Lang deeps.
I was also told that I could not keep bees alive without treating them which was discouraging and made me rethink if I even wanted to get bees.

So the cost was a big obstacle for me. A few things that I have noticed about the Kenya TBH for what it's worth are:

1)The sloped sides always stay dry in the rain.
2)The sloped sides don't get direct sun.
3)Ventilation wise I close the entrances down to one 3/4" hole for wintering and they stay dry inside. I don't know why this is but I don't see the Lang people doing this or being comfortable with it.

I started with one package three years ago and I'm over wintering eight colonies now with no treatments to date. If my bees continue to do well I will be looking forward to trying a Lang or two.


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## DavesBees (Jun 2, 2009)

11x

This isn't much but it is a good one. Not many hiding places for unwelcome critters. And I like the height off the ground.


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## Elsa (Dec 31, 2007)

We started with KTBHs that we build ourselves and are experimenting with different styles/sizes. In addition we have (so far) 2 TTBHs (one with bars, the other frames w/starter strips) and 2 Langs. Our first hives were colonized with packages of Carniolans 2 years ago. Last year we bought more Carniolan packages and Italian Nucs and I must say I am much more impressed with how the Carnis perform in our area (NW Oregon). The Italians were put into 2 Langs. One colony wasn't thriving by Fall and were grafted into the other Lang. All 3 of the current KTBHs have Carnis in them and they produced like gangbusters and are doing really well. I have windows in all the TBHs - which I really love - and I can go up and take a peek into the hive any time without having to dismantle anything. I'm a Disabled Veteran and didn't realize how strenuous working Langs could be. After just grafting the Lang colonies together (adding the deep from L2 by placing it above the two deeps on L1 using newspaper separaters) I can honestly say I NEVER want to work a heavily producing Langstroth hive! Just the weight of the bees in the Deeps and Medium made them painful to work - plus how disruptive and invasive opening up the colonies to work them is, the whole accidental bee squish issue when putting a box aside while working down into lower boxes... ugh. KTBHs are a JOY to work in comparison. I can open up a colony with a minimum of disruption, removing empty bars to make room to slide bars back as I work my way along or putting the bars onto a frame hanger off the front of the hive. I have a very low accidental squishage rate. I can pull a frame of honey and it doesn't kill my back. Crushing and straining the comb is a bit of a pain, but is much cheaper than investing in a centrifuge. I can us a comb cutter or make chunk honey and the bee-made comb is beautiful. Enjoying watching the bees draw out their own comb is part of the magic of the TBHs. As far as the amount of work on the colonies in the yard, I can't see how anyone could consider the TBHs to be more work. On the contrary, I've found them to be a lot easier to work, and, because I enjoy working them without hurting my back, I tend to pay more attention to them as well. I like being able to make my own TBHs and I think I'm going to only build KTBHs from now on. I don't know if this is of any help to you, but I really love my Top Bar Hives and, after all, I'm in this to enjoy the bees. Enjoying the products of the hive is much easier when I'm not eating Vicodin because I wrenched my back lifting boxes off a Lang colony. Hope this helps a little. ~Elsa


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## laurelmtnlover (May 29, 2009)

Very well said Elsa!


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## Beethinking (Jun 2, 2008)

Always good to see more Oregonian top bar beeks.  

Cheers,
Matt


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