# British National < > Warre



## little_john (Aug 4, 2014)

Thameside Honey said:


> Hello everyone! I am a new member here. [...] I started on a BS 14" x 12" brood box frame size WBC hive - and I still like it a lot. But I also love experimenting [...].


Hi Elena

A very warm welcome. It seems we're singing from exactly the same hymn-sheet. Several of my Long Hives have 14x12 frames - it's a very useful size - but I've now returned to the 300x300 format and have chosen a 225mm box depth for compatibility with the National deep box, using a 70mm shim underneath in order to get standard Gallup frames (11.25"x 11.25") drawn-out which are destined for some of the 'retro' boxes I've made.

After abandoning my initial flirtation with the Warre 'Alpine' system a few years back (when I couldn't then see any way of getting two very different frame sizes to co-exist), I lengthened the Warre boxes to accommodate the 17" BN top-bar - these I then called "National-Warres" (no imagination ... LOL)

They're still in use:










Yellow, Red, Green and Blue - colour-coded stacks - OCD or what ? The 'Green' stack is currently in the workshop, so I've placed a 6-frame nuc 'in position' ready for later occupation.

The neat thing about these boxes is that with rebates (rabbets in the US) cut into all 4 sides, they'll then house 8 British National frames lengthwise, or 10-ish Warre frames cross-wise, Well - it's one way ... 

FWIW - should I ever decide to work with shallower boxes, then I'll select 112.5mm rather than 108mm - i.e. exactly half of 225mm.


FWIW(2) - these are the methods I've tried for National < > Warre co-existence.

As already mentioned above:











A Warre box* inside* a National box:




















And finally, the best so far - a pair of 'Partition Boards' constructed with suitable rebates (rabbets) to hold the shorter frames (or Top Bars).:










Empty space can always be filled-in with dummies of course if only a few frames are involved. For individual frames, I still cable-tie these beneath plain top-bars, and insert a 10mm shim beneath the box. Doing this knackers the bee-space clearance for all the other frames, but not so much it causes a major problem. Sometimes life just ain't perfect !! 
'best
LJ


----------



## Bovis (Feb 21, 2021)

Oh man, those partition boards are clever!


----------



## Honey Hive Farms (Nov 1, 2012)

Nice job. I am sure you already know this, if the bees can get into those void they will fill them up. 
Looking good to have a large harvest this year? 
Wish you well.


----------



## little_john (Aug 4, 2014)

Appreciate the concern - but I had hoped (assumed) that people would understand those pictures ... 

But just in case not - to clarify: *there are no voids*, either when finished, or when set-up correctly. In the case of the 300x300 box built inside the 460x460 National box, both the top and bottom 'voids' as shown in the first photo (which was only intended to show how it was built during construction) were then sealed over with 3mm plywood.

In the two photographs where there are just 5 frames in place - those were just *example frames*, intended only to show the principle (and those five were the only spare frames I had available at the time  ) I did say "Empty space can always be filled-in with dummies" - as I'm a great 'dummy-frame' enthusiast (having well over a hundred of them) - dunno why they're not more popular on t'other side of the pond ?

Trust the above will eliminate any confusion or misunderstanding ...
'best
LJ


----------

