# pol-line and selection for mite resistance



## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

http://www.ars.usda.gov/research/publications/publications.htm?seq_no_115=317665

i found this interesting. has anyone here tried pol-line bees?


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

I tried Poline and they did not stand out as more treatment free than any other bee.


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## Rusty Hills Farm (Mar 24, 2010)

I've got them on order. I'm hoping to improve honey production since I already have good VSH levels.

HTH

Rusty


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

I've heard mixed reports on them. Hope to get some this spring.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

jim lyon said:


> I've heard mixed reports on them. Hope to get some this spring.


just as interesting to me as the mixing of vsh genetics into stock traditionally geared toward pollination and honey production is the concept of having commercial operators doing their own selection and breeding from their most productive while taking into consideration the 'end of season' mite counts.

jim, you have reported doing your own queen rearing and selecting from your best hives in this manner and it makes really good sense. i believe ian has decided to adopt this approach as well. are you guys seeing a trend among commercial operators to get more hands on with the selection and queen rearing process?


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

squarepeg said:


> just as interesting to me as the mixing of vsh genetics into stock traditionally geared toward pollination and honey production is the concept of having commercial operators doing their own selection and breeding from their most productive while taking into consideration the 'end of season' mite counts.
> 
> jim, you have reported doing your own queen rearing and selecting from your best hives in this manner and it makes really good sense. i believe ian has decided to adopt this approach as well. are you guys seeing a trend among commercial operators to get more hands on with the selection and queen rearing process?


I don't think the purchase of breeders such as the pol-line is unusual among commercials in recent years. A couple hundred bucks each for a breeder seems like money well spent. Personally I don't like to go all in on imported breeders (totally, maybe 10% of the grafts each year) because I feel I know more about what I'm getting when we select our own but it just seems prudent to keep bring in outside genetics. 
Hey, maybe selling some "tested" breeders is something you might want to consider sp. Monitor them through the summer and sell the select ones in the fall. Seems like even open mated ones with some background ought to bring $100 maybe more.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

i'm just a rookie here but it sounds like your doing it smart jim.

a hundred bucks for one of my survivor mutts, ya think? hmm...


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

squarepeg said:


> i'm just a rookie here but it sounds like your doing it smart jim.
> 
> a hundred bucks for one of my survivor mutts, ya think? hmm...


Perhaps, but I'm just speculating. I'm always willing to try something a little different. I even got some Russians from Glenn once but that was sort of a short lived experiment. Never did try any of those exotic breeds of Russell's though.


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## swarm_trapper (Jun 19, 2003)

Now that Glenns is out of the Game who can you buy the breeders From?

We always bought a lot of them from Miksa after he grafted off of Glenns breeders. I really liked them very broody and they would have lower mites but not mite free lol


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

swarm_trapper said:


> Now that Glenns is out of the Game who can you buy the breeders From?
> 
> We always bought a lot of them from Miksa after he grafted off of Glenns breeders. I really liked them very broody and they would have lower mites but not mite free lol


http://vpqueenbees.com
They did have some supply problems this fall, still hoping to get some for spring grafting.


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## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

I have ordered a couple of All-American packages for this spring. They are supposedly resistant, but none of my other colonies are. I will be raising my own queens and am too small scale to flood an area with drones of resistant bloodlines. I think I will still be treating with OAV for the forseeable future.


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

I've tried F1 Pol-Lines. They brood well, are hardy, winter fine up here. However, I needed to treat them. Mite levels were above my threshold.


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## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

My 2015 formic-treated F1 & F2 from a breeder Pol-Line did very well, and built up especially well in October on sub. My other lines really shut down in the 3rd year of drought, but the Pol-Line added a full box.

I had issues with the new TF yard I stocked with F1. Of course, I perennially have issues with the other TF yard stocked with (mostly) Big Sur ferals.


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

Who are the three "commercial beekeeping companies" involved in the breeding and selection process?


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Mbeck said:


> Who are the three "commercial beekeeping companies" involved in the breeding and selection process?


They like to get a few open mated queens grafted from their breeders back from some of their customers to test alongside their other stock. I sent him a small box of ours.


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

You sent them to Baton Rouge or VP Queens? 
How did you decide which ones to send? Anything specific criteria or just pull form the nicer looking hives?


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Mbeck said:


> You sent them to Baton Rouge or VP Queens?
> How did you decide which ones to send? Anything specific criteria or just pull form the nicer looking hives?


Sent them to VP. Had a breeder from them that really excelled in production and Adam asked if I could send some of the crosses off of her back to him to test.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

I wonder why he want the good breeder back.
Is it for the genetic mix that he wanted?


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

beepro said:


> I wonder why he want the good breeder back.
> Is it for the genetic mix that he wanted?


He dosent want the breeder back he wants a sampling of the mated progeny from the breeder.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

jim lyon said:


> They like to get a few open mated queens grafted from their breeders back from some of their customers to test alongside their other stock. I sent him a small box of ours.


that's way cool jim. i was unaware of the effort by the usda to get mite resistant traits incorporated into commercial breeding stock.

according to the ars publication the program was started in 2008. have you been participating all along, and have the researchers been looking at the persistence of traits beyond the f1 generation?

do you know if there are plans to expand the program beyond the "one to three beekeeping companies"?


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