# 1st FGMO fog.....



## Steve C (Jun 25, 2006)

Ok,

I just got through Fogging my only hive for the 1st time..... I only had FGMO... but I will have some Thymol soon....
Man was that so..... easy....!!!!! 
They were so happy after I left them that 2 hr's later,when I took a peek inside
I did not smoke, short's and tee-shirt, no vail... and there was a thurnder storm 2 miles away....
did not even buzz up and around.... the only thing they wanted was my sweat on my hands and arms....

Why is everybody not doing this(fogging that is)....???
What is the down side to FGMO......???

I am spose to do it again in 7 days right....????
How long do you go after you do this say for like 6 weeks stright...?
I don't have any bee's near me other then "maybe" a "wild deep in the swamps, old hollow tree hive"
Do you think they would have mites and reinterduce mites back into my hive....???

I guess I need to get a plate down under my SBB to get a count....
I will work on that tomorrow....

Thanks for any info....

Steve C
(Very Happy Newbee Beek)


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>What is the down side to FGMO......???

If small cell wasn't doing it for me, I'd probably be doing it still.

It's easy enough to fog once a week when the hives are in your back yard. It's not so easy when the hives are an hour's drive away.

Aslo a lot of people are not convinced of the efficacy.


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## Tia (Nov 19, 2003)

Steve, glad you're so happy. I love FGMO and so far I've seen no downside although some beeks keep telling me it doesn't work. My 24-hr mite counts are never above 3-5. I've been told that my luck may be due to the marsh across the street--that brackish water builds the bees' immune system. Can't prove any of it, but so far so good.


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## Donna Marie Honeybee by the Sea (Jun 29, 2005)

Hi guys, glad to report that after three weeks of fogging, the overnight drop was zero mites for Queen Victoria and only one dried up shell for Queen Francesca! 
I just got a call from Peggy aka Mimi's Bees, and she has seen an article from the FDA that does NOT reccommend fogging with FGMO. Have not read the article yet myself, anyone else know about this?
Cheers Donna


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I don't believe there has been anything released or published by the FDA on the subject. It's Food Grade by definition. The FDA does not assess the efficacy of treatments.


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## Steve C (Jun 25, 2006)

Donna,

Keep an eye on this.... What, Where, and how
I would love to read it and find out why they want to "recommend not to fog"....

Is it a real threat or a political move.
Shoot...I was just reading that Listerine has Thymol in it... and my Wal-Mart FGMO is a laxitave.....


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## honeyman46408 (Feb 14, 2003)

""Shoot...I was just reading that Listerine has Thymol in it... and my Wal-Mart FGMO is a laxitave.....""

There have been several people that had strong words about Thymol in FGMO and I wonder how many of them brush their teeth every morning (and use mouth wash I HOPE)and I bet none of them have tested FGMO/Thymol beucause no one would PAY them to test


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## Mimi's Bees (Jul 16, 2006)

Hey,

This is Mimi's Bees. Re: USDA report on FGMO treatments.

I found this on the web while surfing so I don't know where the link was.

The site is: www.ars.usda.gov/research/publication. 

It was published in American Bee Journal about 1 1/2 yrs ago. Since this is my first year of beekeeping, I just found it.

I was fixing to buy a fogger but now I'm totally lost as what to do. 

Mimi's Bees


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

http://www.ars.usda.gov/research/publications/publications.htm?seq_no_115=169445

I would be ashamed to write such an article with no more research or information about a product when thousands of users have already written just the opposite. Six weeks in south Texas in the spring, with no explanation of how it was applied? BALONEY!!!


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## Tia (Nov 19, 2003)

Mimi's Bees, you know both Donna and me and that we use FGMO and the success we have so why do you question it? It's my opinion that people that write articles such as this just don't like the idea of finding resolutions that are inexpensive. They want you to buy the expensive stuff. As for me, I refuse to put on gloves and goggles and other protective gear just to treat my bees. Donna Marie by the Sea just got a zero count in her two hives; I never have a count over five. FGMO's the way to go.


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## Donna Marie Honeybee by the Sea (Jun 29, 2005)

Hi everyone, I can understand reluctance, it has taken me over a year to come over to the Fog side. 
Fogging seemed a more intrusive procedure and I had hoped the powder sugar treatment would work for me. My results with the sugar were less than stellar, and I hated having to remove supers and break the colony down each time.
I knew I wanted to transition to small cell (wish I had started on it from the very beginning) and decided that I would try the fog until the regression is complete. 

The first time I fogged I was surprised at how very fine the mist is, and how quickly the bees got back to business. My hope is to be able to dispense with the Fog in a year or so, when regression is complete. Like I said before, if it works as well for me as it has for Michael, Tia, Iddee, et al, I will be a happy beek. Cheers Donna


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## clintonbemrose (Oct 23, 2001)

When the report came out I saw and read it.
They DIDr NOT follow Dr. R's methods at all and they over fogged the hive with the fogger at an angle where it was spitting flames. Of course it didn't work and they FRIED lots of bees. The reason that no one is testing FGMO properly is there is no money to make some company rich. I could not get anyone to fund my tests so following Dr. R's methods I have taken it on my self. I'm in year 2 of testing FGMO/Thymol fog and so far it looks good to me. I am fogging with the suppers on and testing the honey, comb, & woodenware for residues left over. So far all looks good and I have not seen any diference in the queens that I raise as compared to those of 5 years ago.
Clint


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## Tia (Nov 19, 2003)

<there is no money to make some company rich>. Precisely. Can't tell you how many times I've been "put down" in varroa workshops, etc. when I've brought up FGMO.


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## joe_s (Sep 21, 2005)

I hust tried it too, at least on a few hives. Bought the Bodine fogger. It seemed to work well once i let it heat up right. Did not have thymol or SBB but wanted to see how it worked. I will get thymol and make some SBB this winter


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## Bill Ruble (Jan 2, 2006)

Well folks, tonight is the firs time I have looked at this part of beesourse. I think I would like to try this but really don't have any idea where to get a fogger, or for that matter, the engreedients for it. I sure wish I could watch someone do this as it would help me so much.
I did use oxalic acid for the first time last week, but I made my own fogger and not sure it would work for this.
Bill


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

The Burgess fogger in available at Lowe's and in your area I would check farm & fleet and Menards.
The Bodine fogger is available at tractor supply, plus others.
The fgmo is available at wal-mart and drug stores.

SHAMELESS PLUG.....I sell thymol in 50 gram packs, the amount used in one litre fgmo.


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## Keith Benson (Feb 17, 2003)

"I bet none of them have tested FGMO/Thymol beucause no one would PAY them to test"

Yep, can't understand why they aren't clammoring to do the work for free. Those lazy, rich researchers.

Keith


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

Those "lazy, rich researchers" HAVE researched FGMO and they have researched Thymol.

They found FGMO to be USELESS and Thymol to be somewhat effective.

 Research by USDA-ARS, Weslaco, TX, funded by National Honey Board, indicates fogging mineral oil (without additives) is of no benefit in controlling Varroa or improving overall colony health [ABJ, 12/04, p923, ABJ, 4/05, p271].
 Research has shown that fogging a colony w/ FGMO is ineffective [BC, 9/05, p50]. 
 Fogged mineral oil (without additives) is of some value, however, tests show smoking hive w/ dried sumac seed heads (in a smoker) is of greater effectiveness [ABJ, 11/04, p863. A 6% blend of eucalyptus / wintergreen added to plain mineral oil increases its effectiveness [ABJ, 11/04, p863].

Adverse Effect - Increased adult bee mortality for Thymol has been assessed at 9.5 bees / day over 10 days52, although in another study only young larvae survival was affected (74-87% v. 89-95% for controls), with no differences in sealed brood or adult survival 102. When fed to honey bees, Thymol in a concentration of 100 ppm killed 50% of the bees.


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## JJ (Jun 22, 2004)

Hi everyone, FGMO/THYMOL useless. I dont think so.I have used only FGMO/


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## JJ (Jun 22, 2004)

Hi everyone again, sorry about the mistake above. I have used fgmo/thymol since the end of 2003 so I know its not useless. Ive had some of the best years with my bee since ive been using it. If you use this method you must stay on top of it and do as the Dr. has said to do. Also someone said something about the hives smell like thymol, again not true, my hives do not smell like thymol at all. I fog every week all year. Ive had several beekeepers and friends around my hives and no one ever has said the honey tasted like thymol or smelled like thymol. I not writing this to get things started again, but I must say my hives look great and did very good again this year on honey. I want to be sure to make things clear I have not said i do not have mites, I do. But I also dont use the cords like the Dr. says to do I only fog once a week. Take care JJ


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## Steve C (Jun 25, 2006)

I look at this group as "PRO FGMO" so we should keep things "Positive" about FGMO and not "Negative"....


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

Sorry, I didnt mean to be negative . . .

Information, good and bad, is always helpful to anyone that wants to learn.

The info given by JJ is helpful too. Maybe his skills as a beekeeper, his bees, his enviroment, allows him (and others) to acheive their desired results. I wish I could find their sercet.


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

>>Information, good and bad, is always helpful to anyone that wants to learn<<

I think I have to disagree with that. If you had said "negative or positive" rather than "good or bad", I might could agree, but I have seen bad info on here and other places, including mags, that does more harm than not having any info at all.

In my opinion, a six week test for a treatment that calls for "all flying weather" is BAD info. Worse than no info at all. Especially if conducted by an employee of a company that stands to lose money if the treatment tested turns out to be good.


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## Donna Marie Honeybee by the Sea (Jun 29, 2005)

Iddee, may I ask a question. On the Bee Forum you mentioned no treatment unless needed. Does that include fogging with FGMO? My understanding of the effectiveness of FGMO, was not to wait till mite levels were high, but to fog on a regular basis to keep them low. 

Do you fog preventively or do you wait until mite counts are high to fog? 

Thank you, Donna Marie


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

Donna, it is easy to get confused by my fogging methods. The proper way to do it is weekly, as a mite increase preventive treatment, and possibly a decrease. I do not do it properly. If you have NO mites at all, there is no reason to treat. If your mite load is low and never increases, there is no reason to treat.

I have two yards. First, my survivor hives get no treatment at all, of any kind, and their predecessors haven't for over 20 years.

My home yard has the bees I extract from buildings and trees. They get random treatments to keep the mites at a manageable level to assist the bees in living long enough to become resistant. My hopes are to have fully resistant bees that never need treating. I do believe that the fogging keeps the mites down to a level that the bees can live with.

I also have a third, temporary yard where I keep new bees I capture long enough to evaluate them. Those I treat before bringing them to the home yard, if they live long enough to warrant it.

In summary, I am not a scientist nor am I trying to produce honey for profit. I just enjoy my bees and hope to get a strain that is not devastated by this litle pest.

[ August 10, 2006, 09:24 PM: Message edited by: iddee ]


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## Donna Marie Honeybee by the Sea (Jun 29, 2005)

Thank you Iddee, I think I may back off a bit on the weekly fog and monitor mite levels more closely. I would like to do the bare minimum to keep my honey bees healthy.

Queen Francesca is a survivor from last year AND a home grown bred in the wild Queen. She has a handful of spring introduced small cell frames. Her colony had only one shell on the last overnight drop.

Queen Victoria is a marked,bred (artificially??) queen installed in April with a package on small cell foundation only. There were zero mites on an overnight drop. 

Thank you for your frank response. My hope is to be able to dispense with fogging as soon as possible, if I find, as others before me have done, the small cell foundation gives the bees the edge over the mite. 

Cheers, Donna Marie


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

I must say, "I agree w/ iddee completely".

He is "dead on" w/ good/bad, negative or positive.

I agree that the 6 wk "test" was not a good evaluation. And I also agree that FGMO is best used as a "preventive", not as a treatment.
Anyone interested in this "report" can find other info at: http://www.ars.usda.gov/research/publications/publications.htm?seq_no_115=169445

Perhaps the funding provided by The National Honey Board to Jeff Pettis (2006), USDA-ARS, for (additional?) study of mineral oil and essential oils in controlling Varroa [ABJ 4/06, p285] will provide more info.


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## Steve C (Jun 25, 2006)

Well..... Boys and Gals.....

I did a 48hr drop..... and got 38 total.... so I guess that would equal out to 19/24hr...









I fogged with FGMO/Thymol also today... I did not Think the thymol smell was bad.... 
but then to I like the smell of jet engine's and drag race car also....

I did notice something today right after I fogged....
The some girls cameout on the front pourch and looked like the were grooming themself's then after an hour or so....bam....
It looked like they woke up and went to work.... I mean a lot of them were working out in the field...!!!
I have noticed this 3 time's now....


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I agree FGMO fog is better viewed as a preventative. If you have a LOT of mites, it's probably not going to get the problem under control quickly enough.


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