# Overwintering a single deep?



## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

Try giving each a pollen patty and a candy board as well as what you already do.


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## Dirtslinger2 (Dec 9, 2007)

Ok, a pollen patty to boost brood/numbers before frost, or a pollen patty for over winter? yeah I don't think I could get them to fill another box this late in summer.
They are well stocked with pollen at the moment and I'm not sure they'd accept it at this point.


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

OK, yea, in winter with all the moisture probs, pollen patties aren't taken so well. They are better in fall to make sure they have good stores of it thru winter. Since you already have good pollen stores, the patties aren't needed.


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## TwT (Aug 5, 2004)

Dirtslinger2 said:


> I have hived 3 swarms and each has filled up a single deep quite nicely in the last month or two. I haven't had good luck overwintering single boxes in the past, maybe less than half have made it.
> 
> I've wrapped, stacking singles in pairs for shared warmth and insulation. Not sure what went wrong.
> 
> ...


being that you are in Vancouver, BC and your winters are so long I would believe they would need a couple full supers on them to keep from starving, singles make it through winter here in Ga but I think in your location they would starve before spring in a single deep.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Dirtslinger2 said:


> I haven't had good luck overwintering single boxes in the past, maybe less than half have made it. Any other tricks?


You could place them on top of full sized colonies. On top of the bottom colony's inner, place another inner...rim up, escape hole closed, entrance to the rear. Place single on that...inner cover rim up allows the frames to hang. Place another inner on top, rim down and entrance to the rear. Insulate inner and wrap the stack as usual...make sure bottom hive has upper entrance.

Move the singles up after flight is done for the year.


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## xC0000005 (Nov 17, 2004)

Conventional wisdom around here is that you need that second deep sealed with honey or sugar to get them through the winter. My survivors came through with stores that equalled about 1/2 a deep of honey left. A few people up here overwinter single deeps using the dry sugar method to feed them. Moisture to combine it with is never in short supply here.


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## cleareyes (Mar 2, 2008)

We over winter almost 600 hives on palettes of single styrofoam boxes. The covers are also in styrofoam. The bottom boards are apinovar. We also have 400 hives that sleep inside, but and they never look or do as good as those outside. The styrofoam hives are for us a lot less work and we find that we have a lot more success in overwintering hives since we have switch from indoor to outdoor.
for the bottom boards : http://www.reineschapleau.wd1.net/apinovar.en.html
Low varoa and protein supplement after the honey flow definitely helps.
For winter feed, they get between 6 and 7 gallons of syrup with a bee pro feeder.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Around here, I could overwinter a single deep of a frugal bee (Russian, Carni, feral survivors). Italians usually need two deeps. (or three mediums).


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## Dirtslinger2 (Dec 9, 2007)

Thanks for all the tips.
Where did you get styrofoam boxes Cleareyes? Haven't heard of this.
Thanks.


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## Jeffzhear (Dec 2, 2006)

Dadant and others sell the styrofoam boxes...here's a link to the Dadant on-line catalog for the deep super...

https://www.dadant.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=611


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## winevines (Apr 7, 2007)

Michael Palmer said:


> You could place them on top of full sized colonies. On top of the bottom colony's inner, place another inner...rim up, escape hole closed, entrance to the rear. Place single on that...inner cover rim up allows the frames to hang. Place another inner on top, rim down and entrance to the rear. Insulate inner and wrap the stack as usual...make sure bottom hive has upper entrance.
> 
> Move the singles up after flight is done for the year.


Maybe I have not had enough coffee yet this am, but I got a little lost with your last line- why moving the single inner cover up... ?


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## Dundrave (Jun 1, 2008)

*rear entrance*

Mike-
Why do you recommend putting the top entrance at the rear? Do you leave those rear entrances open during the summer or just the winter?


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*I'm not sure they'd accept it at this point.*

Fat bees. Skinny bees.
You might consider putting the pollen patties on now so that the bees can have access to it 24/7 befor they cluster up for winter.
feeding fumagillin syrup is also advised.
Put the hives where they are out of the wind to prevent wind chil.
The bees heat the winter cluster not the total inside of the hive.

Regards,
Ernie Lucas Apiaries.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

winevines said:


> Maybe I have not had enough coffee yet this am, but I got a little lost with your last line- why moving the single inner cover up... ?


Not sure of your question. I move the single story colonies up onto the production colony after all flight is done for the year. That's usually in November here...not sure about VA. Is that what you asked?


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Dundrave said:


> Mike-
> Why do you recommend putting the top entrance at the rear? Do you leave those rear entrances open during the summer or just the winter?


I want the single story colony to have an entrance in a different direction that the colony down below. Since I use an upper entrance for my colonies, which is a notch in the inner cover on the front side, my inner cover arrangement for the single would have their entrance just an inch above that. Too much drift would happen.


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## Kelly Livingston (Feb 24, 2007)

Michael,

Does that ever create a draft since you have a hole on each side? If the wind blows from the front or back won't it go right through the boxes? You do this when they are clustered but have you ever had them fight when they break cluster on a warmer winter day? The innver covers have opening right? 

I have 2 weak nucs I'm trying to keep through winter and was considering using my SBB to keep them separate from my 2 full colonies, and then use an entrance reducer to have the SBB be a very small opening. What do you think?


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## cleareyes (Mar 2, 2008)

Dirtslinger2:

I bought mind from F.W. Jones. They are the main beekeeping supplier in eastern Canada. I don't see why Bee Maid wouldn't have styrofoam bee supplies. 
http://www.fwjones.com/

Here are two pics:
picture 1 : first snow storm November 07
picture 2 : summer 08

http://picasaweb.google.com/Mielgaudreau


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Kelly Livingston said:


> Michael,
> 
> Does that ever create a draft since you have a hole on each side? If the wind blows from the front or back won't it go right through the boxes? You do this when they are clustered but have you ever had them fight when they break cluster on a warmer winter day? The innver covers have opening right?
> 
> I have 2 weak nucs I'm trying to keep through winter and was considering using my SBB to keep them separate from my 2 full colonies, and then use an entrance reducer to have the SBB be a very small opening. What do you think?


No, there's no draft...at least if there is it doesn't matter. More important to vent away the moisture. I've never seen any problem with fighting.

My bottom hive has the inner cover escape hole closed with duct tape. I've never used sbb or double screens between the bottom hive and the nucs. My gut feeling is that there would be a lot of moisture rising from the bottom hive. Maybe you should try it, and let us know.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

cleareyes said:


> I bought mind from F.W. Jones. They are the main beekeeping supplier in eastern Canada.


When did you get your packages from Jones? Most of the beekeepers here got put on hold until late May. I know several who say their Jones (Wilbanks) packages never made it out of the first box. June was a terrible month for building up packages...24 days of rain. I used to buy packages from Jones when I first started back in the 70's. Always got delivery in early May.


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## winevines (Apr 7, 2007)

Michael Palmer said:


> Not sure of your question. I move the single story colonies up onto the production colony after all flight is done for the year. That's usually in November here...not sure about VA. Is that what you asked?


Yeah, I got it now, I just had misread your last line in your original post and though you meant that you moved the inner cover up later for some reason. So you wait until they stop flying and then put the deep containing the 2 nucs on top of the production hive. 

So far so good for us here in No VA and overwintering nucs- keeping them balanced so that they do not overgrow. Now in total nectar dearth and dry as a bone so we may have to start feeding slowly.


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## winevines (Apr 7, 2007)

Michael Palmer said:


> I've never used sbb or double screens between the bottom hive and the nucs. My gut feeling is that there would be a lot of moisture rising from the bottom hive. Maybe you should try it, and let us know.


Some of us are trying using the double screens over the winter and will report back.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Some of us are trying using the double screens over the winter and will report back.

Don't know about Virginia, but it didn't go well in Nebraska.


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## winevines (Apr 7, 2007)

Michael Bush said:


> >Some of us are trying using the double screens over the winter and will report back.
> Don't know about Virginia, but it didn't go well in Nebraska.


Yeah, we might be getting talked out of this idea...due to concerns raised on this forum about condensation.... but remember these are double nucs and they will be above a parent hive... and our winters are significantly more mild than NE or VT (but who knows what 09 will bring? they used to be much worse)

Do you think closing up the SBB with those white mite testing boards will be similar effect as if we had a all wood bottom board?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Do you think closing up the SBB with those white mite testing boards will be similar effect as if we had a all wood bottom board?

There is a little draft around the edges with the white boards, but I think a little is good. They need some ventilation.


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## danno1800 (Mar 13, 2004)

*I took 12 Canadian Buckfast through last winter in single deeps*

I used single deeps for each hive. The queens were started in 4 frame nucs in mid-July and went through the winter OK. -Danno


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## mlewis48 (Nov 24, 2007)

I am glad that I have been keeping up with this thread. I have several singles that I was considering putting over a production hive to help keep them past Winter. The condensation issue had me concerned. Last Winter, was not that bad but who knows what this year will offer. With all of the exeriance, on this site, do you guys feel that it would be better to combind these or roll the dice and let the chips fall where they may? Keep them alive and split in the Spring? I have worked hard to get my hive count up and I don't want to loose any of them.
Marc


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## dug_6238 (May 9, 2007)

Several of us had very good results limping small colonies through winter using the MountainCamp Method. The idea of a double screen still has merit, and the two could be incorporated to form a very effective support strategy.


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