# Balled after Painted



## Adam Foster Collins (Nov 4, 2009)

It happened for me once as well. I attributed it to putting her too far from the brood.


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## rwlaw (May 4, 2009)

Unfortunately it sounds like the colony was on high alert and didn't recognize her, hopefully they didn't ball her fatally. Maybe smoke them down good before you put one on the frames next time.


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## cbay (Mar 27, 2017)

I believe the first and only queen i marked was balled. Marked her with nail polish, held her for a minute and put her back. They were all over her. Closed it up and checked the hive several days later and they were queenless with cells started. Being new i didn't realize what was going on until later.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

The bees don't recognized their queen if the fresh paint smell is too strong.
Many of the acrylic paints including nail polish has the strong smell that the bees don't like. Often the
smell will masked the scent of the queen that they cannot recognized her anymore. Next time I'll let the
paint air out a bit before putting the queen back in to the hive.


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## j.kuder (Dec 5, 2010)

I've seen that happen when using one of them queen catcher / marking thing a ma jiggers. the smell of the previous queen got on her and she got balled as soon as she was released. so you might even transfer queen pheromones on your gloves or bare hands.


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## DerTiefster (Oct 27, 2016)

I have read suggestions to spray sugar water (with essential oils) on the bees and queen at re-installation if having problems. I have not tried this, nor have I ever painted a queen.


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## Branman (Aug 20, 2003)

Was it a newly introduced queen? Also why out of the hive for so long?


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## psm1212 (Feb 9, 2016)

Branman said:


> Was it a newly introduced queen? Also why out of the hive for so long?


No. It was the existing queen. I did an alcohol wash while she was out and the paint was drying. I checked for her today. Could not find her. Plenty of eggs for making a new one, but that is the first time that has happened to me. I did have the hive pretty riled up. It is a dearth and they are pissy right now.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

In a dearth they may not make a new queen. So watch out for that and possibly have to make a
combine or to give them a new mated queen. A moment like this it is better if you have some 
nuc hives to provide a queen.


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## psm1212 (Feb 9, 2016)

This happened AGAIN to me yesterday -- two years after I started this thread. Couldn't have had her out of the hive for more than 5 minutes. Stuck a dot of green Testors paint on her thorax, dropped her back in the brood chamber and they immediately balled and killed her. I have probably painted 50+ queens since the last time this happened to me and have had no problems.


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## Riskybizz (Mar 12, 2010)

Its funny I always worried about the queen not being recognized after marking because of the paint odor. We marked 18 recently that had previously been introduced into nucs and they were all accepted without issue. It would be good to hear from someone that raises a lot of queens and marks them like M. Palmer and others to see what they have to say.


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## cbay (Mar 27, 2017)

I'm always cautious when placing her back in the hive, and like to clear the bees some with smoke and gently get her in there where there is fewer bees.
I've found that just dropping her right in a pile of bees can startle a couple and they may have a quick response that doesn't go well.
It doesn't take but a few extra seconds to do this and have found the alternative can be not so good every now and then.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

There is only one reason for this, her smell.

It's either the paint, or some other smell you put onto her in the process.

If you cannot figure the issue and solve it, you could always do a cage release after marking.


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## psm1212 (Feb 9, 2016)

Oldtimer said:


> There is only one reason for this, her smell.
> 
> It's either the paint, or some other smell you put onto her in the process.
> 
> If you cannot figure the issue and solve it, you could always do a cage release after marking.


If that is the case, it was the paint. I haven't had a queen in that tube since May. I don't think it was pheromone from another queen. I have painted at least 30 queens so far this year with the same Testors paint bottle.  But I don't have another answer for it either. Probably the paint.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Old trick from the days beekeepers used matches rather than cigarette lighters, a beekeeper always had a matchbox that could be used in an emergency.

A queen that needed to be introduced, or re introduced, to a hive, using a timed release, was put in an empty matchbox. The matchbox was opened just enough for a bee to put it's tongue through, and the matchbox placed in the hive, centre broodnest.

The bees would chew the cardboard and the queen would eventually be released. No need to remove the cage, it would eventually be chewed away completely.


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## little_john (Aug 4, 2014)

rwlaw said:


> Unfortunately it sounds like *the colony was on high alert* and didn't recognize her ...


I used to think balling after marking was down to the paint smell (it undoubtedly still does play some part), but on one or two occasions when I've removed a queen in order to shake bees out from a hive, then immediately replaced her - she's been instantly balled.

Likewise, when directly introducing day-old virgins - most of the time these can simply walk into the nuc unnoticed - yet on one or two occasions guards from a tetchy Q-ve nuc have pounced on the virgin without hesitation.

Regarding queenless colonies generally, I've noticed that after an initial period of distress, some become completely non-plussed about their condition, whereas others become extremely bad-tempered and intolerant of any 'intruders'.

Right now I have two queenless starter-finishers on site - which are like chalk and cheese - one could be inspected in the nude (if a person was so inclined), the other needs a full bee-suit just in order to open their box.
LJ


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