# what am I doing wrong??? I got stung 25+ times



## newbkeeper (Aug 11, 2010)

Ok, well I have no experience at all and so I'm trying to get into beekeeping for a hobby. A friend had told me his neighbor, who was sent to jail some time ago, had left a few hive boxes in his backyard. My friend wants them out because the bees are disturbing his animals (horses, chickens, etc) and wanted to know if I would take them since the house is being foreclosed on and the bank rep said they are going to kill the bees if they aren't removed. So, I inspected the hives and found about 5 different hives that are stacked 3-4 supers high. 3/5 of the hives were old and vacant. Two remained but are in bad shape (holes/cracks everywhere for the bees to escape from). I was told by a beekeeper to remove the top super filled with honey and just focus on getting the brood out. Boy, was that a mess. As soon as I lifted the top super the bees went nuts and attacked me. I must have had thousands all over me with a death wish. I've been around another hive before and they never were this aggressive, even while I was removing their comb from my dads patio. So, I'm wondering if I did something wrong or if these are AHB's and I should just stay away. I was hit 25+ times in my arms and don't plan on going through that again. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

P.S. I've been doing some reading and was wondering if I might have smashed a few bees while removing the super and might have triggered a reaction for the bees to attack. I'm sure it also didn't help when I panicked a bit and was trying to 100's of bees off my arms.


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## Irene S (Feb 7, 2008)

oh no, I hope you're okay 

sounds painful.

Did you smoke the bees? Are you in an area where you may enounter africanized bees? 

are there any old timey beeks that may be able to help you out? I hate the idea of bees being destroyed 

I've found that antihistamine sprays are GREAT for multiple stings 

hang in there


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## Bull Creek (Aug 10, 2010)

What was the weather like when you opened the hive?

Did you have a bee suit on? A friend of mine whose parents were commercial beekeepers told me that you should have as much protection on as you need to feel comfortable approaching the hive. Sounds like you may have been pretty underdressed.

good luck though, I'd love to get a free hive just like that.

keep it up.


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## newbkeeper (Aug 11, 2010)

I had smoked the bees for a bit but had noticed a few starting to peck at me while I was doing so. I was wearing a bee suit but that didn't offer much protection. As you can imagine while wearing a bee suit and face gear I was stung 25+ times, so there must have been a lot more stingers that didn't get through. 

The weather was sunny and it was around noon time when I tried doing this. I was advised by a beekeeper to do this during noon time since that is when most of the hive is out foraging for food. Everyone else I've spoken to said I should have done this during the night. The problem with doing it during night is that the lot is vacant and has trash scattered around so I didn't feel like falling on a piece of wood with nails, wire, cactus, etc. 

The hive is still there but I'm not so sure now if I want to mess with them if they are AHB. I'm going to be keeping my first hive at my grandfathers house and the last thing I want to do is bring an aggressive hive to his place.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Improper use of a smoker and rough handling of equipment will set them off, or it could just have been who knows what. Find an experienced beekeeper to work w/ a little.

Good luck. Don't get run off. You have your combat experience behind you and not allergic reactions, right?


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## newbkeeper (Aug 11, 2010)

im not sure how I could have not used the smoker correctly. Can you please explain?

The top super needed to be pried open a bit but I was as gentle as I could be. 

Yeah, it could have been any number of things but I'm really starting to wonder if they are AHB and if it is worth salvaging them. It just seems like I was attacked too quickly and by so many of them. But, i'm still learning so I'm not so sure.


Thanks a lot everyone for the info thus far. Its really appreciated!


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

I can not imagine a bee suit that would get you 25 stings in the arms. Now I get hit in the legs a fair amount, but I prefer an inspector jacket. If the bee suit is that porous you might like to wear a thick sweat suit under it. If I have to work a HOT hive... and it seems like we have one in every yard.... I get the smoker really puffing and first smoke the area around the hive, then blow a few puffs right in the entrance... the crack the hive and blow several puffs down in it.. close it up and wait a coupla minutes. Guess AHB might be possible. GEt an old beek to go with you.... if they run him off... well - must be AHB.


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## LandellApiaries (Aug 9, 2010)

If you can, definitely get some experienced help. If it is AHB, you will appreciate the advice. Try to be as gentle as you can, and use ample amounts of smoke in the entrance first. Smoke a bit when you pry up the inner cover and let the smoke go through the hive. 25 times is a bunch. You could try a looser fitting suit or where some layers under it until you get comfortable with them.


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## JohnAllen (Jul 2, 2010)

newbkeeper said:


> Everyone else I've spoken to said I should have done this during the night. The problem with doing it during night is that the lot is vacant and has trash scattered around so I didn't feel like falling on a piece of wood with nails, wire, cactus, etc.


Do not do this at night. Not only will it be harder for you to see what you are doing but when you start taking the beehive apart in the dark the bees will freak out and you will be the target of opportunity. Very early in the morning before the bees are stirring might be a good time.


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

I looked you up on google map, there are AHB in you're area.
Could easily be the problem.


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## Steve10 (Nov 19, 2008)

You might want to try to wearing looser fitting bee suit too (or in my case lose a few pounds!) I've got a couple nasty hives to put up with until I re-queen them. They manage to get through my suit if I squat down to inspect frames. This tightens the bee suit in the crotch, butt, and legs. None is a good place to get stung in. I've learned to stand as erect as I can to let the suit just hang off me when I check these hives. My time is limited, so I don't have the luxury of waiting until the conditions are right to inspect them when they are happy!

Hope this helps,
Steve


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## baldwinbees (Mar 2, 2010)

my 'mentor' told me to take a stick&tie a piece of cloth to it....put it at the entrance...if the bees attack quickly,put more protection on...we have some HOT hives around here,but supposedly no AHB,but the same is a 'test' we were told to try when AHB come to this area by a state apiary inspector at our club


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

First, smoking.

A little smoke goes a long way. A lot of smoke just upsets them. No smoke will allow a full blown alarm to be sent out. A typical newbie mistake is to not smoke at all or to pump the smoker into the entrance until it is shooting flames (first mistake too much smoke, second mistake blowing flames and hot smoke). What you want is one good puff in the door and one good puff in the top and put the smoker down.

Grace.

Move slowly and gracefully. Listen to the bees. They will tell you when you move too suddenly by the pitch of their noise and by bees flying at you when you move suddenly. Set things down gently. The last 1/2" is what counts. it should be slow enough that most of the bees can get out from under the box and it does not jostle anything.

Assuming you are smoking correctly and moving gracefully and they are still unmanageable then requeen them.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesrequeeninghot.htm


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## beekeeper1756 (Mar 20, 2010)

Sorry to hear about your painful experience. Good luck.


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## newbkeeper (Aug 11, 2010)

well thank you everyone for the advice. I don't know of any beekeepers in my area that would help out. If someone is around here then I'd be willing to split the supers with you and let you walk away with the largest stack (4 supers tall). If it is AHB then I guess re-queening would be a solution but I'm afraid I'm too inexperienced to figure this out. I thought about making a bee vacuum and removing most of the population before I start trying to mess with them again. I'm not sure if that is recommended though??? any thoughts?

Anyone close to 92336?

I was able to pick up a hive on craigslist from someone who wanted them out of their patio. The hive was in a trash can she had left out. It doesn't look like there are many bees and they are just starting to form the comb. It was a total different story with these bees. I was able to walk up to them without protection and hold my hand right up to them. If it were the other colonies I probably would have had stingers in my eyes for trying something like that. Anyways, I moved the hive to my grandfathers house yesterday and was going to check on them tomorrow to see if they are still there. I just might start with this colony since they seem very docile. I'm just hoping they have a queen with them.

Here's a pic.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

It doesn't look like they have much comb. If you can get it into a frame it will help, but you could also steal a frame of brood from one of your hives and put that in a box with some drawn comb (if you have it) and shake them all into that.


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## StevenG (Mar 27, 2009)

My rule of thumb is, if I don't know the bees, I armor up! After all, frequently i don't know how long a swarm has been there, so they may be in a cranky mood. And I have a couple of hives I know well, and they're cranky pretty much all the time. 

Second, your mentor who told you to do this in the middle of the day is correct. More bees in the field that way. At night they're all home, and they hate to be disturbed. Plus they crawl. And sting. In the early morning most of the foragers are still in the hive, so that's not too good an idea.

AHB. Were they African, you'd have had more than 25 stings. Sounds like they're simply mean. Or perhaps there's no flow. Even my most docile hives get cranky when there's no honey coming in and I disturb them.

How long can you leave them where they are? if until the weather turns cool, that's good. then at night you can close them up, and move them to their new location. If not, I'd be tempted to pull all the supers I could one day, then strap (ratchet straps) the hive together. Return after dark, put a mosquito net around it to keep the bees in and keep them from crawling over you. You close it up, they may suffocate or get too hot. Then move them to their new location and remove the covering and scoot!

Wish I was closer, I'd help. Sounds like a good adventure for some free bees. And yes, i'd probably requeen.
Hope this helps,
Regards,
Steven


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## newbkeeper (Aug 11, 2010)

yeah, I probably would have had more then 25 stings if I wasn't wearing a bee suit and leather gloves..the stings I did get had penetrated through my clothing. I checked out my gloves and noticed a ton of stingers on it that were almost ready to go through. I thought about posting a video of the hives for everyone to see what I was dealing with. I'll probably do that tomorrow.


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## Jay T (May 3, 2010)

Hey buzz,
Im new myself, if I got stug 25 time I would definaly revaluate my hobby. I have 9 hives and I dont need gloves and but I do wear a vail I dont like the gilrs around my peepers or snout. please let us know if they are afercanized. I heard that gas and a match will calm them down dont know for sure.

Jay T


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## newbkeeper (Aug 11, 2010)

LOL....gas and a match huh..yeah, I'm sure that would chill them the hell out...


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## newbkeeper (Aug 11, 2010)

Ok, so I visited the aggressive hive today and was happy to say that I was able to remove one super filled with honey and bees! Now, I'm starting to wonder if these really are AHB's or if I just really pissed them off the last time I was there. I do remember removing the lid of the super and possibly squashing some bees when I put it back on. I also took the super off and placed it on a piece of plywood so I can seal the bottom...so, i'm thinking I might have smashed a few bees and caused them to attack me. Today I went when the sun was going down and sprayed sugar water on them. The bees were calm and didn't really mess with me at all. So, could I still have AHB's and just got like today? Or did I screw up the first time and assumed the bees were overly aggressive? Any info from you guys would be great! thanks


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

For me the genetic prejudice against AHB's is quite curious. AHB come in all flavors, just like most all honey bees. Maybe some AHB are more defensive than most other honey bees, but AHB can also be just as calm and well-mannered as any other bee.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I've never killed bees for being mean. I just requeen. And I've had some very manageable bees that tempted me...


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## lisascenic (Mar 11, 2010)

If you are planning on removing the bees, that work might be best done at night when the bees are at home and in bed. 

As for inspecting at noon. If you live in cactus country, you may wish to adjust your timing. I've found that our bees are feistier in the heat of the day. If they are in full "rush hour mode" they seem to get more annoyed by hive inpections.


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## newbkeeper (Aug 11, 2010)

well today I'm dropping off a super at my grandfathers house filled with honey and bees. I think part of the problem these bees have been facing is that they were left unattended too long. They seem to be overcrowded and so I'm thinking that getting their home nice and clean and adding some more frames might do the trick. I think I might requeen to play it safe though. Anyone know where I can get a queen? It seems like a lot of places are sold out already.


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## lisascenic (Mar 11, 2010)

I think that on these forums there's a lot of pressure to requeen. 

But look at it this way, these bees gave survived on their own with no "propping up" from medicines or beekeeping. These bees have superior genetics. 

If you read the accounts of requeening, you'll read about an awful lot of failure. 

Why not leave things alone for now?


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

If there isn't a queen in the super you moved, they will be requeening themselves for you. That will change the hive genetics 50%.
There would have to be eggs or very young larva in the super.


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## newbkeeper (Aug 11, 2010)

lisascenic said:


> I think that on these forums there's a lot of pressure to requeen.
> 
> But look at it this way, these bees gave survived on their own with no "propping up" from medicines or beekeeping. These bees have superior genetics.
> 
> ...


I think you are right. I got the inclination to requeen from this forum. I was thinking of letting things be but figured I was just trying to be cheap and wasn't sure if I would be making a rookie mistake. Seems like letting nature run its course is best.


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## newbkeeper (Aug 11, 2010)

What a freakin mess!!!!!!!

So, I finally got a new hive box ready so that I can transfer the frames from the old decrepit super. To my dismay I noticed the old super had comb all over the place. The frames were basically fused together and the comb looked a bit old due to lack of maintenance/care. So, I did what I could and removed 3 frames. Boy what a mess! there was honey all over the place because I basically had to take a knife and slice in between the frames to try and pry them apart. I also noticed the previous owner had placed medium frames in a deep super. The bees had built comb within the frame and also just beneath it since there was enough space. This was part of the problem since the comb at the bottom was all stuck together. Good thing is that I only got stung once. I'm thinking the rest of the frames are kinda going to be wasted if I don't do something soon because I'm sure all the spilled honey is going to attract a ton of ants and there goes that. I'm wondering if I should just vacuum all the bees up, clean out the frames, and just put them all in a fresh new box. I didn't see any brood so I'm not so sure they have a queen with them. What do you guys think?


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## sjbees (Jun 9, 2007)

Post #1
> As soon as I lifted the top super the bees went nuts and attacked
> me. I must have had thousands all over me

Post #21
> The bees were calm and didn't really mess with me at all.

Post #29
> I didn't see any brood so I'm not so sure they have a queen with them.

If #1 is not exaggeration and #21 is true then you must have (had?) a queen.

If you go back tomorrow and they are cranky, they may no longer have a queen because "honey all over the place" may have drowned her.

If they are not cranky you still have a queen.

Approaches to consider:

a) If this is a bottom box and you feel the box is sturdy enough to move, strap it all the way round with duct tape to cover the gaps. Cover the bottom entrance to limit the number of bees that will want to sting your ankles. Leverage onto a sheet of plywood that is about 24x18 which has a few holes drilled around the perimeter. Use heavy cord or light rope through the holes to give yourself a way to carry it.

b) Carefully cut away strips of comb that can be tied into a frame. With the space created, you should be able to remove most of the comb without as much mess. Use a carving knife or steak knife, not a hive tool.

c) Remove what remains en masse. There is a surprising amount of strength to old comb. Either build an over-sized frame that can hold the rest of the hive or use punched metal to configure several frames into one over-size. Cut the nest away from the edge of the hive box, about 1/2" in so it can come free and be 'jiggled' into the oversized frame. You can put that in a hive box with follower boards on each side, and keep them that way over winter. Come spring, the bees will expand into the box and frames above.


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## newbkeeper (Aug 11, 2010)

sjbees said:


> Post #1
> > As soon as I lifted the top super the bees went nuts and attacked
> > me. I must have had thousands all over me
> 
> ...



thanks for the info.

Well, in my first post when the bees went crazy I was dealing with the original 3 supers. This last time around when the bees were calm I had removed the top super and took it to another location. So, i'm wondering if I'm just doing things better now or there aren't as much bees to piss off this second time around..

I'm thinking of doing what you are saying and just take all the frames out of the old box and transfer them to a new one as one big clump of frames...then just add a box on top and let them start fresh and clean with new frames...


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## StevenG (Mar 27, 2009)

If the old box isn't in too bad shape, and that's where the brood is, my inclination would be to put a new box of foundation on top of the old, let them move up into the new box, and repeat again as needed. Next year the bees will be out of the old box if you time it right, and then you can remove the old box and the old comb at your leisure. Might have to move it above a queen excluder if your timing is off, and she returns and lays down in the old box, though. 

My experience has been, if I check early enough in the spring, the bottom box on any given colony is completely empty. 
Good luck!
Steven


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## Boomerj2 (May 11, 2008)

I just went through the same thing back in July....Picked up 4 hives from Ohio (Single deeps packed with bees) and transported them back home. Was told they were survivor queens. Got them home and placed in the yard....even 3 days later the guards were in my face 100 feet away. It was the combination of hot weather and the lack of space. On that 3rd day I made sure I was covered from head to toe (Bee Suit, Sweats, gloves and tall rubber boots) in 90 degree heat! I put on an extra deep with drawn frames and left them alone for 2 more days......now I go in my inspectors jacket and short. Very big difference from when they first came home!


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