# Incredibly aggressive bees



## tylerdejong (Apr 19, 2014)

I think I'm going to give a description of my hive before I really talk about my aggression problem. It's a three box warre hive and it sure has grown fast since I've only had it for about 2 months and it's progressed to beginning comb production in the third box (I only added the third box recently.) I feed them 1:1 with essential oils (lemon grass, tea tree, spearmint) and they do have a pretty good supply of flowers too, its in my back yard and I live in a suburban area with plenty of plants. Where I live we do sure get plenty of hot weather (regularly high 90s), and it is pretty humid too, but I have a ventilation rim on the hive and I have them under a large tree with a lot of shade and they have plenty of water near them. They've been pretty darn docile since I've had them and I hadn't been stung yet until recently (ive been wearing just the veil, too hot for a suit really.)

About I'd say two weeks ago I went in and gave the hive a pretty big inspection, checked about half of the frames in each of the boxes individually and I also turned the hive entrance to another side since I was worried I was getting too many bees flying into my neighbors yard. All in all the inspection was awesome and the bees were very good. I had finished and left the hive for about five minutes to fill up the jars with syrup and when I came back the bees were VERY pissed. I had bees purposefully exiting the hive to attack me and I barely got the syrup on before I got a few stings.

Since then theres been a pretty intense heat wave over us, it's been in the mid 100s every day and its been humid. I decided to move the hive back about a few feet to keep them better shaded. Well low and behold the bees were incredibly pissed with me moving them over, I had to wear my entire suit and put on two layers of jeans and I still got stung through my sock and somehow one got into my suit and got my chest.

I did a little reading online but I can't really find too many articles talking about bee aggression like this. It was like they were africanized or something. I got the bees from a local guy who has actually been breeding the local feral bees because they can handle the heat pretty well.

Thanks in advance, this is my first thread also


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

Let me be the first to welcome you to the best web site in the world related to beekeeping.
As far as your dillemma....


First off, is the hive queenright?
If so, are there ants or animals (skunks) or neigborhood kids bothering the hive?
What is the mite/shb load?
Did you check to see if the hive is being robbed?


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## Richter1978 (Oct 3, 2013)

If this was a "package" of bees, the new generation from the current queen is now in charge accounting for the lack of aggression earlier. Size of colony can cause defensiveness, when it's only a few frames of bees they aren't too bad but then that number triples. I have read about usurping of hives by AHB in TX also. Some of my bees have been pissy lately (and then fine a few days later). I don't know, but the turning and moving of the hive may contribute also. If it continues, re-queening is probably in order.


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## Andrew Dewey (Aug 23, 2005)

What you talking about is extreme defensiveness not aggression. This is a huge distinction that beekeepers more than anyone need to understand.

Congratulations on the inspection and welcome to BeeSource - it sounds like the first part went well and you were happy with what you saw.

Most folks do not tolerate extremely defensive hives. If you suspect your queen has been usurped by an Africanized Queen get some help and requeen the colony with known stock. There are lots of reasons why a colony's temperament might change. (As an example, you could have walked into a robbing attempt) Talk with your bee supplier and get his/her advice.


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## nhoyt (Aug 26, 2013)

" I have them under a large tree with a lot of shade, Since then theres been a pretty intense heat wave over us, it's been in the mid 100s every day and its been humid. I decided to move the hive back about a few feet to keep them better shaded."

I have read too much shade can make the bee aggressive as can it being too hot and humid.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

You did an inspection, you turned the hive, you moved the hive and then you moved the hive again. I think what is bothering the bees might be you. Hopefully the gyrations did not hurt the queen.


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## treetrunk (Apr 25, 2013)

I would say leave em alone a week and try again... The "Defensive Bees" "Pissed Bees" "Mean Bees" "Naughty Bees" "Bad Bees" "Mean Bees... Oh wait I already said that, Is probably the most used thread starter on BS, I think it was my first post as well... Now that I have four months of experience under my belt and am considered by most to be the foremost expert of all things bee related I would like to point out that generally bees are a defensive animal. If you stick your hand in their house on an off day, be it a change in the weather, dearth, menstrual cycle or the like, they will sting you... If they are able to sting you through two pairs of pants with your shirt tucked in to your underwear you may have a problem with AHB... If they chase you around in your yard without provocation you may have AHB.... Otherwise I would recommend you leave em be for a few days and see if they settle down. In my past experiences I have noticed that when one hive is unruly usually all the hives in that yard are unruly that day. Come back a few days later and they are all sweet as pie, to the point where I feel comfortable in only a banana hammock and Birkenstocks. I am guessing you have only the one hive so it would be tough to make that distinction but just to give you an idea... One other thing, be careful with that concoction you are feeding them that blendo with set off robbing like you will not believe. I fed the same to only a few hives in the yard and lost two due to robbing in a matter of days, those EO's are like crack to bees. I would recommend only feeding it when you know there is a dearth or suspect stores are low. Oh yeah and one other thing again, welcome!


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## Ennui (Jun 6, 2013)

If you are going to change syrup jars or want to do anything around the hive without protection I suggest doing it before an inspection. Hives are usually less forgiving after they've been bothered.

I had one hive about 60ft from my compost bin and I'd get stung almost every time I took out the compost. The same hive (a top bar) would pin cushion my gloves with 20-30 stings before I even managed to get the following board out of the back of the hive. I thought of the hive as feisty. It was annoying to work in and I didn't want it in my backyard so and re-queened from a very gentle hive and it and it's all good.

Maybe your hive will be happy after it's been left alone for a week or the weather improves. If not, re-queening is always an option.


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## Santa Caras (Aug 14, 2013)

treetrunk said:


> Now that I have four months of experience under my belt and am considered by most to be the foremost expert of all things bee related/QUOTE]
> 
> LOL! :lpf:
> As his 2nd in command.....he's correct. :thumbsup:
> ...


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## Paul McCarty (Mar 30, 2011)

Did you use adequate smoke?

We have a lot of African in my area and I have never had bees "pincushion" my gloves. That's not good. 

The signs to watch for for AHB or African genetics are the typical signs of an ultra-wild honeybee: Runny bees that drip from the frames when removed from the hive, bees that take flight all at once when the frames are removed from the hive, very little honey and brood from wall to wall (when a regular hive should be storing honey), heavy bearding, and a very high reproduction rate. The biggest indicator is the runny, drippy bees. They may or may not be aggressive/defensive (a lot of ours are not - they are just difficult to work with).


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

tylerdejong said:


> <snip>
> Since then theres been a pretty intense heat wave over us, it's been in the *mid 100s* every day and its been humid. <snip>


WOW!!!! ...and I thought it had been hot and humid here in south Alabama!!!!!! 

Ed


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Acebird hit on something that makes me wonder...

The OP stated...


> I had finished and left the hive for about five minutes to fill up the jars with syrup and when I came back the bees were VERY pissed. I had bees purposefully exiting the hive to attack me and I barely got the syrup on before I got a few stings.


For the bees to have this quick of an attitude change could the queen have gotten rolled? If she had, would the bees have picked up on it that quick? Would they still be defensive a week later as they're hopefully raising an emergency queen?

It seems strange that their change in attitude was almost as sudden as a switch being flipped on...we're talking five minutes here. :kn: 

Ed


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I think anyone with bees in the suburbs should try to have a place lined up in case this happens. If they get mean, then move them to the country while you get them requeened and calmed down. Then move them back to the city. No one enjoys mean bees, not even a beekeeper and ESPECIALLY people who are not beekeepers...


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## peterloringborst (Jan 19, 2010)

> I think anyone with bees in the suburbs should try to have a place lined up in case this happens. If they get mean, then move them to the country while you get them requeened and calmed down.


I think any one with vicious bees in a non-Africanized region should exterminate them. The hive is full of _mean gene drones,_ possibly thousands of them. We don't want them in our county; you don't want them in yours.


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

tylerdejong said:


> They've been pretty darn docile since I've had them and I hadn't been stung yet until recently (ive been wearing just the veil, too hot for a suit really.)
> 
> About I'd say two weeks ago I went in and gave the hive a pretty big inspection, checked about half of the frames in each of the boxes individually and I also turned the hive entrance to another side since I was worried I was getting too many bees flying into my neighbors yard. All in all the inspection was awesome and the bees were very good. I had finished and left the hive for about five minutes to fill up the jars with syrup and when I came back the bees were VERY pissed. I had bees purposefully exiting the hive to attack me and I barely got the syrup on before I got a few stings.
> 
> Since then theres been a pretty intense heat wave over us, it's been in the mid 100s every day and its been humid. I decided to move the hive back about a few feet to keep them better shaded. Well low and behold the bees were incredibly pissed with me moving them over, I had to wear my entire suit and put on two layers of jeans and I still got stung through my sock and somehow one got into my suit and got my chest.


It's late summer in Texas. It's hot and likely a dearth. The hive is bigger and stronger. And they are being jacked with by moving the hive every few days. All of these make bees more defensive. These bees aren't mean, just irritated most likely.


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

peterloringborst said:


> I think any one with vicious bees in a non-Africanized region should exterminate them. The hive is full of _mean gene drones,_ possibly thousands of them. We don't want them in our county; you don't want them in yours.


And how could you possibly know they have mean genes. Clarvoyant?


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## peterloringborst (Jan 19, 2010)

> And how could you possibly know they have mean genes. Clarvoyant?


According to Ernesto Guzman, Ontario Provincial Apiarist, who was born and raised in Mexico, and worked with African Bees, the drones carry the aggressive traits. Furthermore, Bee Weaver Apiaries in Texas says the same thing, that this year the woods are filled with African bees and their drones are passing the trait to some regular queens (that is, their offspring, the workers).

Now you can get them tested by the bee lab in Arizona but they are backed up and it may take two months. In the meantime you have let nasty drones mate with your neighbor's bees. Now I am not saying they are African, but what if they are? You want this on your conscience? Better put them down first and ask questions later. JMHO


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## tylerdejong (Apr 19, 2014)

> One other thing, be careful with that concoction you are feeding them that blendo with set off robbing like you will not believe. I fed the same to only a few hives in the yard and lost two due to robbing in a matter of days, those EO's are like crack to bees. I would recommend only feeding it when you know there is a dearth or suspect stores are low. Oh yeah and one other thing again, welcome!


 They really are. I use to use EOs in my shampoo and whenever I'd be outside I'd get bees going straight for my hair.

I'm pretty confident I dont have any AHB, they didn't start getting defensive until near the end of that one inspection, they were as docile as can be before that. It looks like it might have just been a defensive change I guess. I googled a little and I found an article (totally lost now though, dunno how I'd find it again) that talked about how defensive bees will assign a lot of guards and that these guards will pretty much remain aggressive until they've died.



> For the bees to have this quick of an attitude change could the queen have gotten rolled? If she had, would the bees have picked up on it that quick? Would they still be defensive a week later as they're hopefully raising an emergency queen?


 That could cause a temperament change and its a darn good point. I was pretty gentle with the bees though and I don't think I'd have crushed her but who knows.

Anyway I guess the safest approach would be just to leave them alone for a month or so, it is a warre hive and that's pretty much the whole idea. They arent really bothering anyone except me whenever I go near the hive. I'm going to quit feeding them, theyve definitely gotten plenty of stored honey from that syrup and those EOs could get robbing going. I'm going away for a week and a half anyway and by the time I come back it should be in the cool 90s. Thanks for all the awesome responses! This is a badass forum.


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

peterloringborst said:


> According to Ernesto Guzman, Ontario Provincial Apiarist, who was born and raised in Mexico, and worked with African Bees, the drones carry the aggressive traits. Furthermore, Bee Weaver Apiaries in Texas says the same thing, that this year the woods are filled with African bees and their drones are passing the trait to some regular queens (that is, their offspring, the workers).
> 
> Now you can get them tested by the bee lab in Arizona but they are backed up and it may take two months. In the meantime you have let nasty drones mate with your neighbor's bees. Now I am not saying they are African, but what if they are? You want this on your conscience? Better put them down first and ask questions later. JMHO


And none of that says anything about these particular bees.


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## Paul McCarty (Mar 30, 2011)

Don't worry Peter Loring - they won't survive up there in NY, at least not in a form you would recognize.

Normally the temperament comes from the queen. It is common down here to calm them down with virgins. You can however, end up with a back crossed African queen, if you let them breed past a couple of generations. In my parts (NM) it's not a big deal and you may not notice, but Texas bees come from a different gene pool. 

Still these bees could be something else - and it is highly doubtful they are African. They don't have to be African to be mean. The worst attack I ever personnally experienced (50+ stings) came from regular old Italians.


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## tylerdejong (Apr 19, 2014)

Yeah these guys are pissed. I'll give them plenty of time to calm down but if nothing happens I'll end up getting a new queen. These are some good genetics though, they've been handling the heat pretty well and have been growing like nobody's business. Where would I go and order a new queen btw? Is there a species that handles the heat better than others?


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

tylerdejong said:


> Is there a species that handles the heat better than others?


Sure is, the one you got.


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## tylerdejong (Apr 19, 2014)

Came back and the bees are great, time to themselves is the best thing for them I guess. Still, not going to risk going out there with them without a properly set up suit, I don't have 1/2 the balls that most of you beeks have that go out there in regular clothes.


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## lazy shooter (Jun 3, 2011)

Mission, Texas is within one hundred miles of Mexico. Mission is also a very moderate winter climate. It's citrus orchard friendly. He could easily have Africanized bees, and I have read a similar article to PeterLoringBorst's above post. The aggressiveness is spread by the drones.


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## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)

Get a smoker and use it.


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## Paul McCarty (Mar 30, 2011)

Not sure I agree with the part about aggressiveness being spread by drones. That has not been my experience.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

You did a deep inspection with no smoke and just a veil and only got two stings? 

Also, you moved a full size hive (with alot of bouncing and shaking and jarring) and again got only two stings?

That sounds like a relatively docile hive to me.


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## gjt (Jul 24, 2014)

Maybe a comparison would make some sense to me.

Take a look at the video made by Ernest Simeoni on African Beekeeping. At 10:45 you can see one of the beekeepers' glove.

Is that how aggressive your bees are?


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## Paul McCarty (Mar 30, 2011)

Agressive bees make your gloves look like pincusions.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

Watched the video. All I can say is wow.


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## Paul McCarty (Mar 30, 2011)

Yes - my bees will chase your hands all over the place and head butt, but actual stings are few and far between. Those bees in the video would get very tiresome. I have only ever seen a few wild colonies like that in my area. They are actaully pretty rare here.


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## tylerdejong (Apr 19, 2014)

I actually can drive 10 minutes and be at the border of Mexico, its a lot closer than 100 miles actually! Africanized bees are a problem here I gotta say, I was talking to my "bee guy" and he has a business of taking down africanized hives here and also taking in swarms. The dude works 24/7, took me about a month to get a nuc from him because whenever we'd schedule a time for me to buy the nuc he'd end up having to go and clear a swarm or help someone who was having an africanized bee problem. Crazy stuff.



> You did a deep inspection with no smoke and just a veil and only got two stings?
> 
> Also, you moved a full size hive (with alot of bouncing and shaking and jarring) and again got only two stings?
> 
> That sounds like a relatively docile hive to me.


Sorry, I don't think I really explained what I was wearing too well. I wear one of those bee jackets (bee suits that dont include the pants) with a pair of jeans. I had around 20 stings on the jeans and only two of them got through (both right on the ass, a majority of the stings were right on my crotch, dirty little beestards.) The second inspection that I mentioned I wore two pairs of jeans and I'm yet to see the bees sting through that! But there were so many bees going for my legs that I got another two stings but this time through my socks, I taped the bottoms of my jeans up so no bees could get in there but they somehow were able to get two stings into the small opening between sock and shoe that I had. Bee stings on the foot SUCK.

Earlier I mentioned that my hive was a lot more relaxed, so today I went in at 10am when it was still cool (for my standards) and just gave it a little test, I opened the hive up (after smoking it) and another swarm of bees came after me. Maybe more than before, they were really after me. I got another load of stings on my jeans (I wore two pairs still, I might have thought they were relaxed but I'm still pretty scared of them.)

Anyway, I do live in a place where I don't think I'd want to have an aggressive, or maybe even africanized, hive. I think I want to requeen it. Is there any procedures that would make doing this easier considering that the hive is so aggressive? I haven't ever seen the queen, I never really focused on finding her whenever I was inspecting the hive and I'd always see new eggs so I wasn't really worried about her.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

They didn't start out aggressive they were beat into it.

Sorry a lot of post in between. I was referring to this video.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Acebird said:


> They didn't start out aggressive they were beat into it.


Bees aren't aggressive, Brian, they're defensive.

In AHB territory..."aggression" beat into them? I don't think so. If a DNA test was done on them I'd wager that they would test positive for African genes.

Ed


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## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

I had a hive that was ultra aggressive, so much so, I would wait until I was done with every other hive before I cracked this one!!! Even with smoke they were aggressive. I truly think it was from some Southern bees brought up to almond pollination as that is when this queen was made and mated, during almonds. Anyhow, I have since split that hive down hard and put cells in 3 of the splits from my queens, and let one split build its own, for experimentation purposes only!! I checked them Sunday to see how the splits were all doing and after seeing the queens were laying I decided to crack into the split that I let make their own queen..........as soon as I cracked the top they took to the air and were all up in my grill!! Even stung through my jeans!!! I found the virgin running around freshly hatched, and by the looks of it she is a killing machine as she killed at least 5 other virgins that had hatched normally, not one cell was chewed through the side!! I did find a frame with a queen cell that was piping and put that frame into the one split that didn't have a queen return and hopefully she will run that colony soon. Im hoping both virgins will mate with the local drone pool and only be half as aggressive!!

I really hated splitting the aggressive hive up as they are some really productive bees, they draw frames out like its no ones business and were packing the supers until I broke them up, I just don't like to tolerate over agro bees at all, I don't want the drones in the gene pool or graft daughters from them. I have a particular hive that has packed 3 mediums for me this year and this is after splitting pretty hard after almonds, and they are exceptionally calm. This hive will be my grafting hive after almonds next year!!


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## tylerdejong (Apr 19, 2014)

**** that sounds a lot like what I have. These guys are always eager to sting, I'd be mauled if I wasnt wearing a suit. My hive is also pretty productive lately too, loads of new comb and the population has sky rocketed. It wouldnt hurt to change out the stock I think, theres some really good genes you can buy online and 20 bucks isn't really much if it can potentially change the hives demeanor. I'm pretty sure, at the rate the hive is going at, that I'm going to inevitably split the hive, and I'd like it if I was splitting a hive that was less aggressive.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Intheswamp said:


> Bees aren't aggressive, Brian, they're defensive.


Yes of course but those African beekeepers were banging around boxes for quite some time before they started going after the beekeepers. How did you like that extractor made out of wooden parts and for the most part it was foundationless just had wire supports.


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## Paul McCarty (Mar 30, 2011)

I have split up really aggressive hives into sections with an excluder and smoke or bee-go'ed them up through an excluder to find queens before. It's a little hit or miss and kind of like using a sledge hammer to hit a nail though. You could also break it up into smaller units so you don't have to face them all at once.

You could remove bees 24/7 in my parts too. They are everywhere.


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## Dave Warren (May 14, 2012)

When my girls are a little testy, I spray a little cutter backwoods on my sleeves and gloves, they don't bother me as much. Also go out early evening, smoke um up, then do my thing, haven't been stung since using cutter. Scars on the wrist are going away from the stings. 
I too had mean bees, I also have better queens this also had an effect on the aggressive bees.
Their more docile with the better queen.


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## John D. (Sep 5, 2007)

I use DEET on boots, wrists and on my veil so I can see out if the bees are real aggressive. This year I had the most aggressive hive I have ever had and I have had some pretty testy ones. It was a calm docile hive from a new nuc that I bought last year but this Spring it morphed into a monster. The normal progression I have experienced in behavior is over several seasons (presumed supercedures). I can only presume a usurpation because of the rapid change. First time for me. I have used excluders to separate boxes when looking for queens and have considered fuming them down through an excluder but I am curious Paul on how you fume them up through an excluder.


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## Paul McCarty (Mar 30, 2011)

Well, normally I just stuck a box with foundation on top of the hot box with an excluder in between - then smoked or stuck a piece of cardboard with stinky-stuff on it in the hive entrance. I suppose up or down wouldn't matter. I just did it that way because I exposed my self to them less. It was easier to toss a box on top. It's kind of hit or miss though - half the time they just fly off or hang on the side - and a queen if she really wants to, can squeeze through an excluder. I have also taken them and shaken them into an empty box using an excluder to sift for the queen - I actually do it pretty often. It's not for the faint of heart though because bees go everywhere, and you better be suited up good!


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## John D. (Sep 5, 2007)

Thanks for the explanation.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Paul, what if you used a bee vac into a box that had that excluder. I will say off to the side. I am thinking the ones that get out through the excluder will go back to the hive, no?


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## tylerdejong (Apr 19, 2014)

I'm going to go ahead and requeen with a carniolan bee, getting her from shamrocksbees.com. I'm going to try to find the queen regularly but if thats not possible I'll try dividing the boxes and stuff. I'll post in this thread whenever anything eventful happens: the initial responses short after adding the queen, temperament changes over time, and changes in productivity.

I believe the sudden change in aggression might be related with the size of the hive, nuc hives/small weak hives with aggressive bees are (according to videos and other threads I read) much more docile and can blend in with unaggressive bee strains, but when you have a hive that's becoming strong that's when you'll begin to see stronger defensive measures that the hive will take.


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## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)

Coming back to the smoker question: did you use one/own one?


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## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

I have 2 hives that have been mean since the day I got them. I have one hive that I caught as a swarm that is super sweet. Last week when I went through all of the hives the mean ones were calm and nice. I think there are factors other than genetics involved.


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## lazy shooter (Jun 3, 2011)

dsegrest said:


> I have 2 hives that have been mean since the day I got them. I have one hive that I caught as a swarm that is super sweet. Last week when I went through all of the hives the mean ones were calm and nice. I think there are factors other than genetics involved.


The above may be the understatement of the year, and I don't mean to be obtrusive. Factors: queen right, current weather, lack of stores, abundance of stores, size of hive, night time pests, and yada, yada, …………………


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

From all that I've read, AHB are always defensive...they don't take a day off as it appears your bees did. With two hives side-by-side experiencing pretty much the same environmental conditions the cause of their defensiveness is most likely something somewhat subtle....probably in the "yada, yada,..." group. 

Having said that, I wouldn't want to have a schizophrenic hive where I never knew if I would be dealing with Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. inch: Makes me wonder if for some reason the queen's pheromone gets sporadically weak....up-and-down brood cycles with a large population of bees, maybe? Hopefully the simple fix is to requeen and go on with your life. 

While looking for "Her Meaness" try to be alert for any signs of anything that could be irritating them...mites on bees, DWV, ants, signs of other disease.....

I've got a colony I'm going to have to deal with, too....first signs of an elevated level of defensiveness that I've seen in one of my hives since I've been keeping bees back in December 2011. 

Ed


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## UTvolshype (Nov 26, 2012)

tylerdejong said:


> I'm going to go ahead and requeen with a carniolan bee, getting her from shamrocksbees.com. I'm going to try to find the queen regularly but if thats not possible I'll try dividing the boxes and stuff. I'll post in this thread whenever anything eventful happens: the initial responses short after adding the queen, temperament changes over time, and changes in productivity.
> 
> I believe the sudden change in aggression might be related with the size of the hive, nuc hives/small weak hives with aggressive bees are (according to videos and other threads I read) much more docile and can blend in with unaggressive bee strains, but when you have a hive that's becoming strong that's when you'll begin to see stronger defensive measures that the hive will take.


I would add the carni queen to a nuc and let her lay for a month and then put the nuc on top of the hot hive with a newpaper between them. Of course this is after killing the hot queen the day before. Hot and runny bees don't like strange queens. I've been changing out some hot hives this year and it's been tough to do a normal requeening with them. Also if the new queen is a virgin it's toast, you need a strong laying queen for a hot hive to keep her.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

...or either try to demoralize them by splitting them into 2,3 or 4 splits. But then you run into the expense of new queens, more equipment, and the need to keep tabs on them building their own queen cells. But, if you had a donor colony with good genetics to harvest some young larvae from and give to the hot splits...and *time* for them to raise the queens (which you probably have being as your in Texas).

Hey UTvolshype...*ROLL TIDE!!!!!* 

Ed


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## tylerdejong (Apr 19, 2014)

Making splits sounds really fun and I'd really dig doing that, but I don't think I'll be able to get away with keeping more than my single hive in my neighborhood. I'm going to be trying to find some locations for me to put another hive though, because I think I'll inevitably be having to make splits since there really isnt a winter here, but not anytime soon I don't think. I hope the Shamrock carni queen is going to be alright with the hive, because I don't want to do any special methods of adding her to the colony. The hive seems pretty low on mites (I did the powdered sugar test w/ the mason jar and I only was able to fuss out one mite) and they honestly seem pretty healthy to me. The only real pest I think they have is me.


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## tylerdejong (Apr 19, 2014)

I always use the smoker. I smoke the entrance a little and make sure the bees are aware of the smoke and then I try not to use too much of it after having opened the hive up but sometimes they really require a good smoking.


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## Santa Caras (Aug 14, 2013)

Intheswamp said:


> But, if you had a donor colony with good genetics to harvest some young larvae from and give to the hot splits...and *time* for them to raise the queens (which you probably have being as your in Texas).
> 
> 
> > Only problem with that....if the virgin queen or queens mate with drones from that area that may have AHB...back to square one.
> > If it's just the one hive, than buy a mated queen with good lineage. Even in Texas it's gets really cold during the winters with those northers that blow down into the state from the Rockies. Having a mated queen will give this hive time to be up n ready by Nov when the cold starts.


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## tylerdejong (Apr 19, 2014)

Yeah we actually did have a pretty cold winter here! I think it was a record, sometimes would drop to the 30s during the night. But I'm assuming it's going to be a regular winter here again where were just in the 60s and maybe 50s at the coldest. I'm thinking about making splits though, after thinking about it. I have an empty nuc box that I got the bees from and on the top of the hive I have a transfer box that I used to add the lang frames to the hive. I want to remove it. maybe I'll put the frames from the transfer box into the nuc and try and get the current queen in there and close it up with grass for a few days. The smaller hive I hope would be gentler and maybe more accommodating to the new queen.


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## tylerdejong (Apr 19, 2014)

I borrowed an Ultrabreeze suit from the guy I got the bees from so that I can really see how defensive my bees are and to see if I can use the suit when I do the split. I haven't really given my bees a full inspection since theyve gotten to the size theyre at, I'll usually barely check one or two frames from the first box before I have to leave the hive because the bees are attacking me full scale. So today with the Ultrabreeze I did a full inspection and found a surprising amount of drone brood, maybe planning to swarm? but also a lot of really well laid worker brood (its a shame that the bees are so aggressive, because the queen lays really well) and by the time I had gotten to the final box I was really being attacked, there were bees flying everywhere - very similar to that video of the Africanized bee video, there were A LOT of mad bees, if I was wearing a regular suit I'd definitely have gotten a couple of stings. The Ultrabreeze suit (not meaning to go off topic) held off all the bees that were around me and I didn't get stung, I was only wearing a t shirt and underwear under the suit too, it was remarkably fresh inside and I'm totally going to buy one because of how well ventilated they are.

I'm getting the queens Wednesday so we'll see how well this split goes.


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

tylerdejong said:


> I'm going to go ahead and requeen with a carniolan bee, getting her from shamrocksbees.com. I'm going to try to find the queen regularly but if thats not possible I'll try dividing the boxes and stuff. I'll post in this thread whenever anything eventful happens: the initial responses short after adding the queen, temperament changes over time, and changes in productivity.
> 
> I believe the sudden change in aggression might be related with the size of the hive, nuc hives/small weak hives with aggressive bees are (according to videos and other threads I read) much more docile and can blend in with unaggressive bee strains, but when you have a hive that's becoming strong that's when you'll begin to see stronger defensive measures that the hive will take.


I didn't have much luck with carni's here. When they shut down after the flow in June, the hive size falls off and they get robbed out.


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

duplicate


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## tylerdejong (Apr 19, 2014)

Well I really hope that doesnt happen here. Not many hives around where I live, maybe a few wasps and stuff but there really werent many bees before I started beekeeping, now theres bees all over the neighborhood. I requeened anyway, took awhile to find her but god **** it I did. I have the queens in their cages and theyre waiting in the hives, theyre still making queen cells but I went in today (3 days after removing queen) and destroyed them all, does the fact that theyre making queen cells mean they having accepted her or will they keep doing it until I release her? I can't really tell whether the bees are biting the queens cage or trying to feed her, whats the difference? I dont want to keep her any longer than she has to be in the cage.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

If for no other reason, the bees will quit building queen cells when they run out of larvae that they deem acceptable for queen making.

Ed


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## sultan (Aug 9, 2014)

Hi tylerdejong,

What you describe as incredibly aggressive bees is really nothing compared to our bees. When ever I want to inspect my hives, I really have to prepare for a big fight. Bees come to me like rain and it is really disturbing to always try to brush bees from your body and frames instead of concentrating on the job. What is more irritating is that when we finish the inspection, they still hang on us and follow us all the way several hundred meters or even kilometers. That is what you call incredibly aggressive bees, but we have to manage somehow and harvest honey. I am located on Horn of Africa.
www.somalihoney.com


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## tylerdejong (Apr 19, 2014)

Wow, well that's totally a different level for sure, I commend you for that. Your blog/website looks like something cool to read, beekeeping in Africa is pretty interesting stuff. I don't think my bees are africanized but I sure don't think they are calm enough to live in my neighborhood and thats why I call them "incredibly aggressive" I guess. They have calmed down after I split them though.


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## sultan (Aug 9, 2014)

Great! Your bees are much more doclle than mine. Yes, beekeeping in this part of African is pretty interesting and promising. I hope I will succeed with my project. Keep following me in my journey. Thanks


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