# hives and high winds question



## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

I grew up in Florida and have gone through several hurricanes and tornadoes. I would opt for the bees in your garage as long as it was nice and cool and there wasn't any chance of overheating. I've seen the sun come out directly after a hurricane and it got hot and humid fast. You could open your garage door just a bit to let air flow in. If you have SBB's you could set up a fan for them although you'll probably lose power. They should be fine for two days behind a window screen but like I said, they could overheat without ventilation.


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## fish_stix (May 17, 2009)

The garage will work fine but I would make screens to cover the entire top of the hive for more ventilation. Let the screen hang well over the sides and bungee cord it. Take the lids off and screen the tops and entrance and you'll be all set. Move them back out as soon as the hurricane or tropical storm is gone.


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## Monkadelic (Feb 5, 2010)

I was just going to post asking this exact same question. Now, what if you don't have a garage? Should I get a pallet and strap them down?


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

I would block the entrance with a piece of rolled up window screen and move them in the house. They can't get out so there's no problem there. I like fish stix's screened top cover idea for keeping them cool inside. Perfect.


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## Live Oak (Oct 11, 2008)

If you cannot put them in your garage as mentioned above, strap the hive together securely. If you have more than one hive, after you have strapped each hive together, strap as many hives as you can together, put in a wind protected area if possible and put as much weight on top of the hives as you can......like cinder blocks, bricks, etc.

Probably too late for Irene but for future reference:

These work great for summer ventilation and for your storm protection application:

http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/10-frame-Ventilated-Inner-Cover-Moving-Screen/productinfo/373/

These work great for stopping a robber attack and for moving hives and storm protection application to secure the entrance and still allow good ventilation:

http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/10-Frame-Moving-and-Robbing-Screen/productinfo/517/


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

If the bees came from FL I would think they know how to survive the weather. I wouldn't move them unless there was a danger to flooding. Weight down the covers. 5gal pails of water work good.


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## Monkadelic (Feb 5, 2010)

There is a definite danger of flooding if I move them off their stands, which I am most likely going to do. Can't bring 'em in the house, hubby isn't that supportive. Lol...

I was thinking of ratchet-strapping them to a pallet atop some cinderblocks and venting the tops. I'm thinking of the whole "roof blowing off" scenario that happens to houses!


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

Acebird said:


> If the bees came from FL I would think they know how to survive the weather. I wouldn't move them unless there was a danger to flooding. Weight down the covers. 5gal pails of water work good.


Bees know how to survive the weather living in their natural habitat, of course. But when they're in a pine box sitting on a hive stand instead of living in a tree, a 5 gal pail of water on the top cover won't do in a hurricane.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Try it. Put a 5 gal pail on a one deep empty box with a cover and see if it will blow off. Because the pail is round, wind will go around it in any direction. The wind is not as strong close to the ground as it is at roof top height. You need to prevent the wind from getting under the hive also. If it is elevated on a stand block the wind from getting under the hive. You could also fill the pail with sand instead of water.

What does a commercial guy do in FL with 1000 hives? He can't bring them all inside.


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## Beezly (Jun 25, 2011)

There are inexpensive screw in the ground anchors that you can then strap the hive down with. Get the longest ones that you can find. Having been thru 33 hurricanes and many more tropical storms all over Fl (some at sea just off the coast) in the 80s, i can tell you from experience that a 5 gallon pail, with sand or water can become a projectile. While sustained winds can move the pail over time, gusts and debris flying thru the air hitting it can indeed move it rapidly. I have watched a very aerodynamic sailboat (sans sail) go end over end down the main base road in key west during hurricane floyd. Many other times i have seen immovable objects thrown about like a ball. Other things flying into the hive and pail are more to worry about than just keeping the lid on. And no, commercial guys don't bring them all in...Ask Dr Russell what he does, (did), lost some hives according to his accounts. near the house is good for wind break. Move them to higher ground if possible for flooding, strap them down secure, drink an adult beverage and wring things out afterward.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Acebird said:


> Try it. Put a 5 gal pail on a one deep empty box with a cover and see if it will blow off. Because the pail is round, wind will go around it in any direction. The wind is not as strong close to the ground as it is at roof top height. You need to prevent the wind from getting under the hive also. If it is elevated on a stand block the wind from getting under the hive. You could also fill the pail with sand instead of water.
> 
> What does a commercial guy do in FL with 1000 hives? He can't bring them all inside.


I believe that from around 10,000' down to ground level the winds decrease about 10%...do you think 30 feet is going to make much difference? Also, as Beezly referred to, at ground level you're in the projectile zone, too. If you're coastal and get a bad storm surge...all bets are off, wind protection doesn't matter then.

As for the commercial bee keepers...maybe they check to be sure their insurance is paid up?


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

Acebird said:


> Try it. Put a 5 gal pail on a one deep empty box with a cover and see if it will blow off. Because the pail is round, wind will go around it in any direction. The wind is not as strong close to the ground as it is at roof top height. You need to prevent the wind from getting under the hive also. If it is elevated on a stand block the wind from getting under the hive. You could also fill the pail with sand instead of water.
> 
> What does a commercial guy do in FL with 1000 hives? He can't bring them all inside.


You obviously have never been through a Florida hurricane and he doesn't have a 1000 hives, he has two.


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## Monkadelic (Feb 5, 2010)

Florida hurricanes uproot trees. A pail isn't going to help!

Beezly, thanks for the idea. I might go with that.


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## the kid (Nov 26, 2006)

I was going to say try the dog tie out that screw in the ground , and a ratchet strap ,, this is what I have used ,, BUT I am NOT in a hurricane area .. If the ground got real soaked with water they may pull out , but at that point not much is going to be held down .. no matter how you tie it down ..


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

They're predicting Irene will be a Cat-3 hurricane when it hits the East coast. Category 3 hurricanes have wind speeds ranging from 111 to 130 mph. I can only say what I would do but all 14 of my hives would be in my living room if I didn't have a garage. If my roof comes off and the house blows away, I'll still know I did all I could to protect them.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44218395/ns/weather/#.TlMVAzupXo0


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## Beezly (Jun 25, 2011)

Anchors made to strap down mobile homes are good and long. A little more expensive and work to get in the ground, but if i lived near the coast i would make the effort. Put them in the ground at your dedicated apiary. good to go for years and years. There are shorter ones, check out building supply companys. Good Luck.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Charlie B said:


> They're predicting Irene will be a Cat-3 hurricane when it hits the East coast. Category 3 hurricanes have wind speeds ranging from 111 to 130 mph. I can only say what I would do but all 14 of my hives would be in my living room if I didn't have a garage. If my roof comes off and the house blows away, I'll still know I did all I could to protect them.
> 
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44218395/ns/weather/#.TlMVAzupXo0


Yeah, it'd be nice to have them inside all nice and dry, BUT.... Houses have sustained extensive damage with people taking cover inside of them. Should the house become damaged and topple over the bee hives in the process then there is yet another aspect of a catastrophic emergency...there will be tens (maybe hundreds?) of thousands of upset bees filling what you have chosen as your sanctuary. I would definitely keep them distanced from my living/hunkering-down area.

As for a Cat 3 storm...at ground level at the maximum that'd only be, what...129.968mph??? Bird's 5-gallon bucket oughta handle that, hadn't it...especially filled with water? 

Ed


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Beezly said:


> Anchors made to strap down mobile homes are good and long. A little more expensive and work to get in the ground, but if i lived near the coast i would make the effort. Put them in the ground at your dedicated apiary. good to go for years and years. There are shorter ones, check out building supply companys. Good Luck.


Those mh anchor screws are what I'm considering to put down for my hive stands. Normally before a hurricane there can be a day or several days of heavy rains before the actual storm comes through. The rain saturates the ground making it very easy for the high winds to push over trees, light poles, etc.,. Hurricane Opal did this back in '95...soaked the ground for several days beforehand then leveled trees 100 miles inland. The mobile home anchors are indeed much better than the dog tie out screws...they are longer and have more surface area of the screw threads to hold in the ground...all together heavier duty. Of course, you still have to figure out how to arrange these to hold the hives down tight and not let them topple over even though they're fastened to the screws. I'm thinking (for the time being) of having one positioned at each end of my multi-hive stand and one in the middle...fashion a 2x6 to lay across the tops of the hives with slots or eye-bolts to connect a strap to each end. Use a strap on the center anchor to draw the center of the (now bowed up) 2x6 down snug. As for two hives, you could push them together, screw a mh anchor on either side of them, and use a single strap to snug them down with.

If you have someone that has a heavy-duty air-gun (and air compressor) or an industrial drill then you can use those to screw the anchors into the ground....makes life a lot easier.  But, for only a couple it can be done by hand without too much fuss.

Anchors...take your pick!  http://www.mobilehomedepotmi.com/parts_pages/anchors.htm

Of course, deep post holes with bent pieces of rebar (or the mh anchors) surrounded by concrete might be an easier solution than finding something to screw the anchors in with. 

Best wishes down there!!!! Be safe!!!!!
Ed


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Charlie B said:


> They're predicting Irene will be a Cat-3 hurricane when it hits the East coast. Category 3 hurricanes have wind speeds ranging from 111 to 130 mph.


If I could drive 80-mph down the highway against a 30-mph head wind with a 5-gal pail of paint in the back of my truck I am sure it would not move. If the roof is going to blow off and the house blows down the hive it better off outside against a concrete wall with a cylindrical weight on top of the cover. You can further barricade the hive from the wind with yard stuff like a wooden picnic table, large tree branches, piles of skids, sheets of plywood, bricks, rocks, stone to deflect the wind upward. Think of a jet blast deflector wall at the end of a runway. What is the speed of a jet blast, 300-mph or better?

Trees blow over because they are tall and their sail area is at the top. Roofs come off especially in FL because the pitch is low making it like a wing shaped airfoil that literally sucks them off the building.


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## John V (Jun 7, 2010)

Just a thought.... Why not move them flat against the house or other structure on the outside and then secure them to the house with some eye-bolts and straps. The house isn't going anywhere, and if it does, I doubt you'll be worrying about your bees. You'd still probally want to screen the entrances to keep them from getting lost since you moved them. A nice compromise between all the ideas...

Later, John


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## Beezly (Jun 25, 2011)

Acebird said:


> If I could drive 80-mph down the highway against a 30-mph head wind with a 5-gal pail of paint in the back of my truck I am sure it would not move. If the roof is going to blow off and the house blows down the hive it better off outside against a concrete wall with a cylindrical weight on top of the cover. You can further barricade the hive from the wind with yard stuff like a wooden picnic table, large tree branches, piles of skids, sheets of plywood, bricks, rocks, stone to deflect the wind upward. Think of a jet blast deflector wall at the end of a runway. What is the speed of a jet blast, 300-mph or better?
> 
> Trees blow over because they are tall and their sail area is at the top. Roofs come off especially in FL because the pitch is low making it like a wing shaped airfoil that literally sucks them off the building.


With all due respect, I understand that you get Nor easters and somewhat high winds in the NE. It ain't a hurricane. Telling people to heap potential projectiles around their hives is incredibly insane. You have obviously never watched a picnic table fly 300 yards 6 feet above the ground at 110 mph. Plywood is a huge dangerous sail in high winds sometimes even when bolted to a house wall that is also flying down the road. Branches, skids, bricks?????????? Think back to Andrew in Homestead fl. Also Hugo in SC. People in these zones who are used to being there, when hurricanes and tropical systems approach, spend countless hours clearing the outside of any potential projectiles. 
Here in Ga, Pine trees will bloww over without any limbs on them, or needles because the root system is small. Low pitched roofs? Have you BEEN to Florida? Yes some roofs are low pitched, some are 4 story mansions with 60' high gables on them, just like the rest of the country. 
This reminds me of people following or giving advice on subjects that they read about in a book somewhere, and then go stand on the pier watching the Cat 5 storm roll in cus it'll just be a little rain...May they rest in peace.
Please If you are in the path of these storms, don't take my advice on this. ASK someone who has been thru these many times that still lives there.
I don't tell Iowans how to raise cows or grow corn.
mike


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## Danman (Jun 13, 2011)

Rotating the hive 180 degrees will throw off the bees orientation. They will cluster at the back of the hive, under it, and on the ground. God forbid you have any oil moats for ants- they will all end up in that. Just a lesson I learned from personal experience


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

John V said:


> Just a thought.... Why not move them flat against the house or other structure on the outside and then secure them to the house with some eye-bolts and straps. The house isn't going anywhere, and if it does, I doubt you'll be worrying about your bees. You'd still probally want to screen the entrances to keep them from getting lost since you moved them. A nice compromise between all the ideas...
> 
> Later, John


Now there's an idea. You could screw the I-bolts into the studds through the outside siding or stucco and ratchet strap the hive to the house. You could also ratchet strap the top cover to the hive. Once Irene passed, you could easily patch the holes.

Nice John V :thumbsup:


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## Beezly (Jun 25, 2011)

One more thing, when I was stationed at NAS Key West, I worked in the middle of the airfield at the comm center. I had to drive by the jet engine test and repair facitlity every day. I was friends with the men who worked there. The blast plates were 6" steel anchored into concrete bases that extended 14 feet into the ground. Theses concrete pads were 10' x the width of the plates. 
Jet engine blast plates on carriers were anchored to the 50000 (at least) ton ship.
I am not as concerned about the bees as i am that someone is getting advice that could potentially injure, maim, or possibly even kill someone if followed.
Driving down the road at any speed is a controlled situation compared to wind coming from several directions at once with flying debris.
All the book learning in the world will not prepare you for living thru these things first hand.

And that is a good idea John V.


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## fish_stix (May 17, 2009)

LOL. 5 gallon bucket of water???? In 1969 I had just started flight training in Pensacola when Hurricane Camille hit. I had a 16' boat with 40 hp Johnson that I kept at the base marina. I went out and dumped the boat off the trailer onto the ground behind the marina building and filled it to the gunwales with water. After the hurricane I found my boat in some woods 300 yards away from where I left it. 5 gallon bucket???? :lpf::lpf::lpf:


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## Monkadelic (Feb 5, 2010)

John V, best idea yet. At the moment, it looks like Irene is going to miss Florida entirely other than some bands, but I'll still be ready to strap the girls down in case it turns. I've lived here long enough that I can say I've seen it happen before.

And now I know why hubby said "No way" when I brought up bringing the hives inside... I never thought of something happening to the house, then the bees...sigh.

fish_stix, funny about your boat! I found my avocado tree four streets over in summer '04. I slept right through it, but it took a lot of the trees out around here. I forget which storm. Must have been Frances.


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## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

I can remember seeing coconuts fly by horizontally like cannonballs. I like the strap to the house idea.


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

cg3 said:


> I can remember seeing coconuts fly by horizontally like cannonballs. I like the strap to the house idea.


Are you sure those were coconuts and not 5 gal buckets? :lookout:


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## Fullwood (Feb 27, 2011)

Acebird said:


> If I could drive 80-mph down the highway against a 30-mph head wind with a 5-gal pail of paint in the back of my truck.


Your logic is as busted as a Daytona stripper... A bucket IN THE BACK OF YOUR TRUCK isn't getting hit with 110mph winds.

I've lived in FL my whole life. You don't pile projectiles around something during a hurricane hoping to direct the wind. Gusts can blow in all directions from a storm, and none of those projectiles you pile around your hive are in any way, shape or form even closely related to the blast deflector on a runway. Let me simplify it for you since you've obviously never weathered anything even closely related to a hurricane;  There is no such thing as "yard stuff" during a hurricane. During a hurricane, everything that isn't bolted to the ground magically disappears, and all you can do is hope it doesn't disappear through your house at 130+ mph on its way to the next county.



To the original poster: I'd say stack and strap the hives together against a building if possible and anchor them to some type of screw device in the ground with ratchet straps.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Fullwood said:


> Your logic is as busted as a Daytona stripper... A bucket IN THE BACK OF YOUR TRUCK isn't getting hit with 110mph winds.


 And neither is a hive against a concrete wall. :thumbsup: The air flow is up and over.



> I went out and dumped the boat off the trailer onto the ground behind the marina building and filled it to the gunwales with water.


Boats are light and buoyant. You never seen a boat flip on the water. Next time flip the boat over and seal the edges to the ground so no air can get under the boat and make it air borne. Was it a nice boat?


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

Wow!
Ace bird,
It's okay to be wrong,happens to people all the time.
Admit it and move on don't be so prideful.

http://www.sciencephoto.com/media/163733/enlarge

I wonder if your not a troll created to feed create a stir every forum has one.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Acebird said:


> And neither is a hive against a concrete wall. :thumbsup: The air flow is up and over.
> bird, you're changing what you're talking about. Fullwood wasn't referring to a concrete wall, he was referring to your 5-gallon bucket. You started out with the bucket of water in the back of your truck and now you've switched to a concrete wall...?? You don't think your bucket could handle a straight 110mph wind? And what happens to the wind when it gets to a concrete wall...is there something magic that makes the wind stop....no, it simply changes the wind direction and maybe slightly lowers its speed. I guess that's what Florida needs to do...build a 5' tall concrete wall around the state and that would solve hurricane issues.
> 
> Boats are light and buoyant. You never seen a boat flip on the water. Next time flip the boat over and seal the edges to the ground so no air can get under the boat and make it air borne. Was it a nice boat?


.......You've never seen a boat flip on the water??? You've never watched many boat races, eh? I'll admit that few stationary boats get flipped in the water due to high winds...it's those sitting in dry dock and on trailers that ya gotta look out for!!! Even a 14' johnboat can ruin your day when it comes through your kitchen wall.

When Hurricane Opal came through (we were basically on a direct path of it) I peeked out the back door of the house to see a 80' tall pecan tree with it's top bowing over and touching the ground from the wind. When I walked outside while the eye was over us the tree's roots were beginning to push the ground up on one side of it. The next morning that big old tree was on the ground. Interestingly, a rabbit cage built up about 3' off the ground on 2x4's and that was underneath this tree was standing there undamaged. Strange things happen. That cage could have easily taken flight. BTW, we're about 90 miles inland from the gulf coast and still had winds up around 120mph and lots of mini-tornadoes...we lost half a warehouse roof and lots and lots of timber...but we came out a lot better than many other folks did. 

Something about a hurricane, too, you can't prepare for wind coming from one direction...the winds goes in one direction, then calms down when the eye arrives, then begins to blow in the opposite direction when the backside comes through.


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

Acebird, you're wrong. Get over it. Your giving some really ridiculous advice to Floridians whom some have lost friends, relatives not to mention expensive property during a hurricane having never been in one yourself. The more you try to defend yourself the more you ruin your reputation on this forum.


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## Beezly (Jun 25, 2011)

Acebird writes : "Next time flip the boat over and seal the edges to the ground so no air can get under the boat and make it air borne. Was it a nice boat?"

Most houses are sealed to the ground also...And they get lifted off of their foundations in these storms all of the time. Also, I have seen personally, and i am sure many others have also, Concrete block buildings crumbled from the winds in these storms. perhaps they would still be standing if only they had a bucket of water on top of them.:lpf: It seems the OVERWHELMING opinions on this subject are in line with one another. But then again they should be as ALL of the people giving these correct opinions have lived through tropical systems and actually know what they are talking about.


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## Cox89XJ (Jun 21, 2011)

If flooding is a problem. Move them up. If not you could strape them down.
I guess people have noticed that some people post because they have something to say....... others because they have to say something.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

> bird, you're changing what you're talking about. Fullwood wasn't referring to a concrete wall, he was referring to your 5-gallon bucket. You started out with the bucket of water in the back of your truck and now you've switched to a concrete wall...?? You don't think your bucket could handle a straight 110mph wind? And what happens to the wind when it gets to a concrete wall...is there something magic that makes the wind stop....no


Where the wall meets the ground the velocity is 0, yes I mean zero, nothing. At the top of the wall the velocity is greater than the wind velocity. Its why planes fly, causes lift.

Just a reminder, first post:



> My hive is close to my house and the hive can be protected from wind for the most part on 3 sides...one side cement wall, ...


Look people, I don't care what he does with his hive but if it were me living in FL the hive would remain outside protected by a barricade. If the walls are going to blow down and the roof is going to come off and yachts are going to come crashing through the living room windows the hive is safer outside not inside. When and if this all happens the OP will have more to worry about then his hives.


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## beekeeper120 (Jul 30, 2011)

Thank you for all the posts guys and gals. Although I was spared in FL, I hope this helps you all, in NC and northward.


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## Beeboy01 (May 20, 2008)

I'm a bit south of Daytona Beach maybe 15 miles inland and am planning to drive some rebar stakes into the ground on either side of each hive and rope or rachet the hives down for the next storm. Kinda glad this one missed us, I wasn't ready and would of lost some hives.


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## Corvair68 (May 10, 2011)

If you put the 5 gallon paint bucket on the roof of your truck @ 80 MPH it may be very different. In the back of the truck the wind is blocked by the cab, and the wind coming over the cab will actually great some downward pressure and help secure it. The jet blast deflectors are several tons of steel and concrete that are anchored to the ground not quite the same as a picnic table and sticks.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

As I said about the first post from the OP, his hive is protected on 3 sides, only one box high, one wall is concrete, even more protected than a pickup. All he has to do is barricade one side and direct the wind that may come in that direction upward. Brace it to the concrete wall. It only has to last one storm not a million jet blasts for 20 years.

Do all the Floridians bring their picnic tables into their living room when a storm is coming?


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

> Do all the Floridians bring their picnic tables into their living room when a storm is coming?


No, you throw all the lawn furniture into the pool. If you are lucky enough to have one.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

I can't see where that would be to good for the pool liner. The picnic tables I am used to weigh about 150 pounds.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

It's not meant to protect the pool liner. It's too keep you lawn furnature from becomming a projectile and killing somebody.

As has been pointed out over and over and over in this thread, you have no idea what to do in a hurricane and insist on providing idiotic advice. You really need to know when to STFU. Seriously!


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

Acebird said:


> If I could drive 80-mph down the highway against a 30-mph head wind with a 5-gal pail of paint in the back of my truck I am sure it would not move.


Shear genius Ace. 

I have a more realistic analogy for you. Put that 5-gallon bucket of water on the *hood* of your truck and then try driving 80-mph down the highway against a 30-mph head wind. I think we can all agree that scenario would be much closer to hurricane forces than would exist in the bed of a truck. 

Go ahead and try it. I expect a full report in the morning.....


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

Meanwhile, in midtown manhattan...

I had to strap em together today, pile on bricks, and attach a diagonal brace with a base weighed down w/ bricks.

However, I'm more concerned about a possible hurricane track that brings Irene right up the middle of midtown.

So, I did what I could for the bees, and then started getting prepared to get through this myself.

There is no way that NYC is prepared for what a direct hit could do, even if the winds are at 85 mph.

I look around at all of the new construction and other attachments to buildings, both high rise and regular, and say to myself, 'We're in for it now.'


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

Well, now we all know why so many know-it-all transplants from NY spend the week after their first Florida hurricane searching for their stuff all over the neighborhood and hauling picnic tables and stuff they left unanchored back out the the unprotected living room windows through which it entered.

I wouldn't, couldn't even pretend to instruct my Florida relatives on better ways for them to prepare for a hurricane without coming across as a completely pompous and ignorant fool. 

Wayne


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

"Well, now we all know why so many know-it-all transplants from NY spend the week after their first Florida hurricane searching for their stuff all over the neighborhood..."

I'm sure most of the 'know it alls' aren't from NY. 

Hurricanes are outside of the realm of experience for most folks in the US.


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## Beezly (Jun 25, 2011)

WLC - Good luck to you. And no, there are so called know it alls everywhere unfortunately.
We'll keep ya'll in our prayers.


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## mjfish1975 (Jul 3, 2011)

I'm in southcentral Pa and the forecast was for 50+ mph winds. My hive sits one ciderblock high off the ground and was considering putting an extra cinderblock on the top cover along with the one that is already there. Hopefully this will be enough. If its looks like it may get a bit worst anchoring it down with staps and those screw in dog stacks maybe needed.


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

WLC said:


> I'm sure most of the 'know it alls' aren't from NY.


Except for the last 5 years, I lived my whole life in NY and, while I actually do know (almost) all, I've learned to keep my mouth shut about the one or two things of which I am ignorant. 

"Tis better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt." Abraham Lincoln. (Also attrributed to Mark Twain and others.)

Wayne


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

> I'm sure most of the 'know it alls' aren't from NY.


True. Most of them are from Utica, NY.


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

This isn't about 'foolishness'.

Those of us in the path of Irene do need to tend to the hives the best way we can.

That being said, your own security is far more important. If your hives get in the way of that, then just remember that you can always get new bees.

This is too serious to allow ourselves to get sidetracked.


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## lazy shooter (Jun 3, 2011)

I've worked the Gulf Coast from Brownsville, Texas to the Florida Panhandle for the past 30 years drilling deep oil and gas wells. As such, I have been in the path of a hurricane many times. If you haven't been there and done that, you can't imagine how winds of 125 mph accompanied with sheets of almost solid water can wreck havoc on all in its path. If you live within 50 miles of where the hurricane makes land, move out. Go visit an inland friend or relative. Try not to stay in a motel, as they will be in peak demand for the responders. Load up your jewelry, expensive guns, family pictures and hit the road. Take pictures of every wall in every room for insurance purposes. Don't try to ride it out where the winds will be in excess of 75 mph. If you do, be prepared to be without water and electricity for weeks and be prepared for possible looting. Check your flashlights and battery supply and store lots of water. Better yet, pack up and hit the road. Let your insurance take care of you. 

I've ridden out a couple of hurricanes in self contained (diesel generator and 2,000 gallons of water), blast proof building. When it blows by, and you take your first look outside you will be shocked, to say the least.


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

God bless all of you on the East coast. We're praying for you.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

mjfish1975 said:


> I'm in southcentral Pa and the forecast was for 50+ mph winds. My hive sits one ciderblock high off the ground and was considering putting an extra cinderblock on the top cover along with the one that is already there. Hopefully this will be enough. If its looks like it may get a bit worst anchoring it down with staps and those screw in dog stacks maybe needed.


You are better off with a pail. Fill it with dirt, seal the lid, flip it upside down and caulk it to the cover. That is what I would do on the hood of my truck if I wanted to show up Nabber.

WLC New York will be fine. It is not like the northeast doesn't get hurricanes, tornadoes, earth quakes and the such. The buildings in NY are built on bed rock. I would much rather be in NY then FL with their flying lawn furniture.


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## clgs (Aug 6, 2008)

Looks like Irene is coming my way! With family in FL I know about the truth in getting rid of all things that can fly, I've put everything in the water filled pool myself, and was lucky be able to help get it out once the storms passed and we crawled out from the dark, and opened up the hurricane shutters. Just have 2 hives here that I was hoping there would be advice here on how to save, but know I do not want to create problems for my neighbors with flying supers, top covers, rocks and tie straps. 

Hurricane pros out there, with experience please - should I remove all honey supers and get the hives down to just the brood boxes for the storm? I have 3 medium supers on them now for winter honey stores.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Acebird said:


> You are better off with a pail. Fill it with dirt, seal the lid, flip it upside down and caulk it to the cover. That is what I would do on the hood of my truck if I wanted to show up Nabber.
> 
> WLC New York will be fine. It is not like the northeast doesn't get hurricanes, tornadoes, earth quakes and the such. The buildings in NY are built on bed rock. I would much rather be in NY then FL with their flying lawn furniture.


No no no no... You've gone from a 5-gallon bucket of water to a pail with dirt in it with a sealed lid and on top of that you're saying you would using caulking to secure it. Seeing the error in your earlier responses, eh? That still really isn't a good solution, though.

The folks in Florida had much rather you and your bucket/pail be in New York, too. 

Have a good day, bird.
Ed


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## lazy shooter (Jun 3, 2011)

Speaking of flying lawn furniture: When the hurricanes hit the Texas coast there are always a group of people that think they can board up their windows with plywood before the storm hits. They find those plywood cut outs fifty miles from the coast. You can't wait until the last minute and wedge some plywood over your windows and expect it to withstand 75 plus mph winds. 

As an engineer, I would think the most cost effective method of anchoring bee hives in high wind conditions would be to place weight on top of the hive. If you still have a few bucks left, go to a ranch supply house and purchase "T" posts, the steel posts that one drives into the ground. Drive a T post by each hive and do a wrap around with wire or a good nylon rope. My disclaimer is that I haven't studied this project and the previous statements are based entirely on hypothisis.

I do wish all of you well. Don't risk your life on this storm. As many posters have stated, 'in the end, it's only bees.'


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

clgs said:


> Hurricane pros out there, with experience please - should I remove all honey supers and get the hives down to just the brood boxes for the storm? I have 3 medium supers on them now for winter honey stores.


The brood is light and the honey is heavy. If the supers are full leave them if not full maybe you want to remove it or put it under the full ones. No pail on this one because of the height. Just rachet strap the whole hive so the weight of the honey can keep it down.


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## Beezly (Jun 25, 2011)

OMG. I believe clgs asked for input from people with actual knowledge of hurricanes. If the stack is just strapped together without attaching it to the ground securely, it will be on its side on the ground and very possibly in pieces. clgs, please refer to any of the other responders to this thread for more knowledgeable advice. while "knowledge is the easiest thing you can give that doesn't cost money" it really should be quality knowledge if you want to ever be taken seriously again. Some knowledge when pulled from the hind quarters really does smell.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Intheswamp said:


> The folks in Florida had much rather you and your bucket/pail be in New York, too.
> 
> Have a good day, bird.
> Ed


Maybe so, but I bet the thirteen million people in NY don't through their lawn furniture in the pool. There aren't enough pools. Most people with boats will be taking them 100-200 ft off shore and anchoring them down from the bow with what ever they have (could be 5 gal pails). The wind will weather vane the boat so the bow always faces the wind. Depending on the boat they may even swamp it.


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

Acebird said:


> The brood is light and the honey is heavy. .... Just rachet strap the whole hive so the weight of the honey can keep it down.


A top heavy unit will topple faster in the wind than a unit with the weight at the bottom. Move the honey to the bottom if you are going to only ratchet strap them together with no other protection or support.

You are dealing with horizontal loads and not simply vertical loads in wind conditions. 

Wayne


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Acebird said:


> Maybe so, but I bet the thirteen million people in NY don't through their lawn furniture in the pool. There aren't enough pools. Most people with boats will be taking them 100-200 ft off shore and anchoring them down from the bow with what ever they have (could be 5 gal pails). The wind will weather vane the boat so the bow always faces the wind. Depending on the boat they may even swamp it.


A buddy of mine's boat was found about 2 miles from where he anchored it...somebody just happened to see what they thought *might* be a boat down in the water. It's a good idea to let the boats ride it out in open water and away from structure (rocking and bouncing against a dock isn't good). But, open water mooring isn't 100%...the wind and waves will still sink'em. 100-200 feet?....shoot, one hurricane wave could throw'em that far.<sigh>


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

waynesgarden said:


> A top heavy unit will topple faster in the wind than a unit with the weight at the bottom.
> 
> Wayne




Not true, weight is weight. If there is enough wind force to tip the hive it will go over in either case. Bottom weight has a tendency to self right but that isn't going to happen if the wind is constant and strong enough to tip it.


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## seal62 (Apr 17, 2011)

I would drive in stakes and ratchet strap them down .


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

http://k7nv.com/notebook/topics/windload.html



> Force, F = A x P x Cd
> A = The projected area of the item
> P , Wind pressure (Psf), = .00256 x V^2 (V= wind speed in Mph)
> Cd , Drag coefficient, = 2.0 for flat plates. For a long cylinder (like most antenna tubes), Cd = 1.2.
> Note the relationship between them is 1.2/2 = .6, not quite 2/3.


I did a quick calculation on a three medium super-ed hive assuming a 100mph wind force and determined that it will indeed blow it over. However making it round shape by placing it inside a 55gal drum makes it right on the line for survivability. The key is to deflect the wind force so it doesn’t see the full 100 mph (which it never will close to the ground if max wind speed was 100 mph). I doubt that NY is going to see 100 mph. They are going to have major floods though.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

Acebird said:


> Not true, weight is weight. If there is enough weight to tip the hive it will go over in either case. Bottom weight has a tendency to self right but that isn't going to happen if the *wind is constant* and strong enough to tip it.


Shear genius again from Ace. 

You are wrong (as usual) on several points: 

1) Wind force is not constant, the maximum wind force ocurrs at the top of an object and approaches 0 at the base of an object. You yourself already said stated that in this thread. This causes a natural tendency for objects to topple over (rotate on it's base) rather than move laterally. In your above quote, you are saying that the "wind is constant". Which is it Ace?? 

2) Once a top heavy object starts to rotate about it's base, the center of gravity shifts laterally. As soon as COG shifts to a position that falls outside of the base of the object, it tips over. The same thing happens with a bottom heavy object, BUT IT HAS TO ROTATE THROUGH A GREATER ANGLE TO MOVE THE CENTER OF GRAVITY OUTSIDE OF THE BASE. An extreme case would be if the center of gravity is located at the base of an object - the object would have to rotate 90 degrees before it will tip - anything less than 90 degrees of tilt and the object will "right" itself. 

3) In your quote above you state that, "If there is enough *weight* to tip the hive it will go over in either case". Weight? Do you mean horizontal force (from wind) as opposed to vertical force do to the acceleration of gravity acting on a mass (commonly referred to as weight)? I guess that is an unfair question on my part because obviously you dont know what you are talking about. 

Good Grief Ace, where did you go to engineering school? Remind me not to hire anyone from there.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

Acebird said:


> http://k7nv.com/notebook/topics/windload.html
> 
> I did a quick calculation on a three medium super-ed hive assuming a 100mph wind force and determined that it will indeed blow it over. However making it round shape by placing it inside a 55gal drum makes it right on the line for survivability. The key is to deflect the wind force so it doesn’t see the full 100 mph (which it never will close to the ground if max wind speed was 100 mph). I doubt that NY is going to see 100 mph. They are going to have major floods though.


You are comparing wind loading of an extrememly tall and slender object that is fixed at it's base (a steel antenna tower*)* to a short squat beehive?? Even if the equation applied to a beehive, all it does is provide an estimated wind load (force). You have to perform additional analysis to determine if the calculated force is great enough to topple the given object. Furthermore, in the case of a antenna tower, there would be several structual elements (bracing, guy lines) that do not apply to a beehive. 

No wonder you are no longer working.


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## beelover23 (Aug 24, 2011)

I live in Flordia and has experienced high winds and major storms. What i do is, I place my beehive in my backyard shed and open up the window a slight to have some fresh air comming in. The colony will remain within the hive during storms and high winds, they will try and keep the hive at a regular temperature in order to keep the larva eggs alive. Reminder always keep your hives at 70 degrees or higher in order for eggs to hatch. The queen bee will not lay any eggs if it falls below this temperature. Also I put a little tarp over my beehive to keep in the hot air in the beehive, just dont let it cover the entrance. If there is a entrance reducer that always helps keep high wind or cold out of the hive, at least 80% of it out!!!


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Nabber86 said:


> 3) In your quote above you state that, "If there is enough *weight* to tip the hive it will go over in either case". Weight? Do you mean horizontal force (from wind) as opposed to vertical force do to the acceleration of gravity acting on a mass (commonly referred to as weight)?


Thanks for the correction. I never said I was perfect.

Item #2, once the structure starts to move the moment arm decreases so it will go over if the wind doesn't instantly decrease (remain constant). It doesn't matter where the weight is.

Nabber are you in a position to hire or just playing make believe?


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

Acebird said:


> Nabber are you in a position to hire or just playing make believe?


Actually yes. Send me your resume and I will promptly "file" it.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

Acebird said:


> Thanks for the correction. I never said I was perfect.
> 
> Item #2, once the structure starts to move the moment arm decreases so it will go over if the wind doesn't instantly decrease (remain constant). It doesn't matter where the weight is.


Absolutely NOT! If the COG has not traveled latterally past the base of the structure and the wind remains _constant_ (as opposed to "instantly decrease", as you erroniously claim), the object WILL NOT tip over. Period. It could reach a state of tilted equalibrium at a few degrees of rotation about it's base (at a constant wind speed), rock back and forth (at continual changes in the wind speed), or fall back into a stable position (at an infinitesimal _decrease_ in wind speed). These conditions would ocurr at _any _rate of change in the wind speed (acceleration, if you remember your basic dynamics). It certainly is not dependant on an "instantanious" decrease in wind speed. _Any _rate of change in the wind velocity will change the situation. 



> I never said I was perfect.


 Agreed - you are far from it. I will conceed that may be the most itellegent comment that that you have made since you joined this forum. 



> "instantly decrease (remain constant)"


 :scratch:. Care to explain how a system can "instantly decrease" _and_ "remain constant"?? WTF! The two states are mutually exclusive. Another major breakdown in logic.

I suppose basic physics behaves differently on planet Acebird?

For the love of God, Issac Newton, and all who revere natural laws, give it a rest my man. You are making my brain hurt.


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## Ted Kretschmann (Feb 2, 2011)

Hives are close to the ground and are fairly heavy with honey. Make sure the lids are screwed down. They would do better if they are sitting close to the ground, as they are not as likely to be blown over. I have been through many a hurricane and tornado in Alabama. The biggest worry to everybody will not be the wind but the potential of the bees experiencing flooding in low areas. If you are in a low area-move them or loose them. WLC, you said I was an alarmist about what would happen if a disaster hit New York City. And the damage done to bees and people. You will be with out power for up to two weeks. Water will be scarce. What water that is available will not be drinkable due to contamination. Food supplies will run low. Communications with the outside world will be screwed! Sorry people, I have been there and lived through Opel and other storms. I do not mean to be alarmist. But if at all possible heed the warnings and leave, evacuate. Bees can be replaced, people can not. GOOD LUCK! TED


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

I haven't read the thread, so this may have already been mentioned, but just in case... my hives in the gulf have been right in the path of most of the hurricanes that have reached the gulf coast of Louisiana, including katrina... the most damage that I have ever had was from a storm that I underestimated... the tornadoes of this spring that destroyed over 600 of our hives... being prepared will cost you very little, but being unprepared can cost you everything...

My method is to use $5 iron tee posts, 6' long, driven 1.5'-2' into the ground one on each side of the hive and tight up against it... then run a 1,200# ratchet strap around all of the posts just above the hive and tighten it firmly so that the posts bend inward just a tad, making the top opening slightly smaller that the hive cover... then run another strap around the actual hive itself, under the bottom and over the top... the hive needs to be on high ground, but sitting either on the ground, or on a solid base such as an empty super or two cylinder blocks flush up to one another... 

For multiple hives, you can save a few buck by putting them all tight together in rows, making sure that the rows point at the direction that you expect the wind to come from, not broad sided... then go all the way around each row with the tee posts centering each hive and doubling each row end... then strap all of the tops of the posts to hold them firmly inward over the tops... 

This has saved hundreds of hives countless times... but I will warn you, NOTHING will work perfectly against hurricane force winds... I have seen hives literally burst on the ends as well as in the center of rows... not many, but it happens... be prepared to replace some tops... DON'T OPEN THEM unless you are removing the inner cover to place the top directly on the hive so the bees can seal it down... I have set a few sticks of 2"x2"x1/4" steel angle on top of the tops and passed each strap over the angle to add support to the edges of the tops... but there has been times that the angle would still be there and the only top that was left was the 2" strip that was directly beneath the angle... and there have been times were the angle was completely gone as well as all of the straps... and I mean GONE... no where to be found after searching a two square mile island... and of course the majority of the times, the angle did what it was intended to do...

Most importantly, get your family to safety with plenty of time to spare... do NOT play with a hurricane... the videos that you have seen on the news are only a small fraction of what they are actually like... I have heard someone say that it was like God just wiped this part of the world clean with a sponge... and its very true... katrina devastated 90,000 square miles... that puts it in perspective... life can not be replaced, you can not go back and do things differently, get your loved ones out if you are in its path. We are praying for you guys.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Nabber86 said:


> Absolutely NOT! If the COG has not traveled latterally past the base of the structure and the wind remains _constant_ (as opposed to "instantly decrease", as you erroniously claim), the object WILL NOT tip over.


Maybe it is time you revisit your textbook if you have one. Once the hive starts to tip the moment arm decreases. Is that hard for you to understand?

Ted, the water they drink in NY comes from Upstate. It will remain clean and fresh. This alarmist nonsense is designed for the profiteers. The price of everything goes up when you can instill fear. The damage done by Katrina will not be repeated in NY by Irene.

Anything a tornado hits is a goner. You can't prepare for a tornado unless you go underground.


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## Ted Kretschmann (Feb 2, 2011)

And Ace if the power goes out and the pumps at the water treatment plants and along the aqueducts go out??? Ace you are in for a rude awakening. Take the advice from people that have lived through these storms. Just the rain alone is going to give the low lying areas of NYC problems. TED


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

rrussell6870;702725
My method is to use $5 iron tee posts said:


> Boy, I feel validated, because that's exactly what I did yesterday.


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

Ted:

I've prepared myself with all of the essentials as advised by the city.

While I'm not in an evacuation zone, I do expect that there will be alot of localized flooding and water damage. Those city sewer grates can get clogged up easily with all of the debris that's going to be blowing around.

My biggest concern is winds of 40-60 mph gusting to 70-80 mph. That's going to cause alot of damage.

I look around at all of the highrise buildings that surround me, including a wall of them about a 1/4 mile to my east here in midtown Manhattan, and I can only hope that they don't become a source of deadly debris raining down on us from hundreds of feet above.

As for the folks on Long Island and the rest of New England, they are going to take alot of damage.

Here in NYC, I know for a fact that the roofs of many of the homes in suburban Brooklyn and Queens do not have hurricane fasteners/straps securing the roofs to the frames of the house. My thoughts and prayers go out to them.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

Acebird said:


> Once the hive starts to tip the moment arm decreases. Is that hard for you to understand?


You kidding right? The moment "arm" is is the hieght of the hive. It stays constant and cannot decrease. 

Perhaps you meant moment (or torque) which is the product of the moment _arm_ and the wind force? The moment can certainly decrease if the wind velocity drops. But then the hive would not tip over, would it?


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Not kidding, the moment arm for the wind force would be 1/2 the height of the hive to the ground and the resistive moment arm would be 1/2 the thickness of the purchase at the base. Strapping a hive to a skid will greatly increase the resistive force as does strapping 2 or 4 hives together. You seem to have your terminology fresh in your mind but you lack application experience. My guess is you are still wet behind the ears. Keep plugging away, that is how you learn.


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

Acebird said:


> Keep plugging away, that is how you learn.


Is that how you learn? I've never seen anyone in a post get told so many times by so many forum members that your advice is 
wrong and basically to STFU but yet you still "keep plugging away". 

Dude, seriously, STFU.


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## Ted Kretschmann (Feb 2, 2011)

WLC, you are right about the funnelling effect on the wind those high rise buildings will cause. The compression of fast moving air through those metal and glass canyons will only make it move even faster. This one event if catastrophic enough-40 billion dollars worth of damage, could be the tipping point that will put the country back into recession/depression. The dust bowl of the thirties tipped the nation into the great depression. So let us hope that Irene is more of just an old wind bag. TED


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## Beezly (Jun 25, 2011)

Obviously with 1329+ posts since march of THIS year, he is an expert on all things in his mind. Possibly the rest of us are wrong, even though ALL of our posts concur with one another...
Sorry, I think I just flew past planet acebird.
ace - put a bucket on it.


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

Just in from the Post Hurricane Bee Inspection. In 13 yards of a total of about 250+ hives, not a single hive blown over. Not sure what it would take to blow over well propolised hive on pallets, but guess more than a Cat 1/ Cat 2 has to offer. Many of these yards are in the wide open spaces so was a bit concerned.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Imagine that...
Maybe next time you can put them in your garage and make sure they are safe.


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## Ted Kretschmann (Feb 2, 2011)

It takes an F-5 tornado with a direct hit to wipe out bees on pallets.That would be an hurricane Andrew or Katrina in equivilent wind speed. This I know because we lost bees in the Spring tornadoes.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Tornadoes are completely different than hurricanes. New York gets it share of tornadoes.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Ted Kretschmann said:


> It takes an F-5 tornado with a direct hit to wipe out bees on pallets.That would be an hurricane Andrew or Katrina in equivilent wind speed. This I know because we lost bees in the Spring tornadoes.


Ted, was that a tongue-in-cheek remark? An F-1 tornado could easily topple beehives. Actually an F-0 could if the hive was already a little unstable (like me). I've had small tornadoes that were spun off of hurricanes passing through that twisted tops out of trees a hundred yards from the house. These were probably little(?) F-0's...if they can do that they could knock over beehives. Remember, we're talking direct hits. 

Here's a link to the Fujita scale: http://www.spc.noaa.gov/faq/tornado/f-scale.html 

Best wishes,
Ed


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Acebird said:


> Tornadoes are completely different than hurricanes. New York gets it share of tornadoes.


You've been reading your encyclopedia again haven't you?

Ed


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Y'all leave my 'bird alone now, ya hear? He doin' the best he can wid wha he got. Ain't we all?


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

Mark, lol! 

Wonder what kinda wind that bird can fly in? Guess it doesnt really matter so long as I am not DOWN wind from it. ;-)


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

Acebird said:


> Tornadoes are completely different than hurricanes. New York gets it share of tornadoes.


Ace and Ted,
What size paint bucket would you recommend for tornadoes? Could I just use my 2.5 quart feeder buckets full of sugar syrup for an F-5? :lpf:


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## Ted Kretschmann (Feb 2, 2011)

Swamp, that was a tongue in cheek remark. We had an f-5 tornado hit one of our yards--THERE WAS NOTHING LEFT TO EVEN FIND!! And our bees are on pallets. So I know a f-0 would knock the hives over. We have been hit with those before also.....Charlie save your money on your bucket and sugar feed. Aint nothing going to stop an f-5 tornado. TED


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## lazy shooter (Jun 3, 2011)

A F-5 tornado can have wind velocities in excess of 300 mph. Wind velocities in hurricanes are much less than even a F-3 tornado. I drove through an area after a F-4 tornado some years back, and the grass had pulled from the ground, and the bark had been pulled from most of the trees. No, I don't think bee hives can be anchored to withstand a tornado.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Ted Kretschmann said:


> Swamp, that was a tongue in cheek remark. We had an f-5 tornado hit one of our yards--THERE WAS NOTHING LEFT TO EVEN FIND!! And our bees are on pallets. So I know a f-0 would knock the hives over. We have been hit with those before also.....Charlie save your money on your bucket and sugar feed. Aint nothing going to stop an f-5 tornado. TED


So very true. Underground bunkers/eggs are about it...but you'd better have the trap door bolted to something substantial and have a jack and a long 4x4 handy just in case that big oak tree lands on top of it! A tornado is a different animal than a hurricane...but both can be as deadly as a coral snake.

Ed


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

lazy shooter said:


> A F-5 tornado can have wind velocities in excess of 300 mph. Wind velocities in hurricanes are much less than even a F-3 tornado. I drove through an area after a F-4 tornado some years back, and the grass had pulled from the ground, and the bark had been pulled from most of the trees. No, I don't think bee hives can be anchored to withstand a tornado.


Yeah, hurricanes don't have the wind velocity of some tornadoes but hurricanes have a secret weapon...that big wall of water can *really* mess up your day!!!


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

The other thing about hurricanes is that they have a much larger path compared to a tornado... the difference is like a rifle bullet vs a shot gun blast... the rifle is more powerful and makes a deeper hole, but has tp be accurately placed to hit the target, while the shot gun makes a heck of a mess up close, but still does damage (less, but usually quite sufficient) even if it is not dead on target...

The moral of the story is... don't chance it! Get out of the way! 

Hope this morning finds you all safe and sound.


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

Ted Kretschmann said:


> Charlie save your money on your bucket and sugar feed. Aint nothing going to stop an f-5 tornado. TED


Sorry Ted, I took your post the wrong way.


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

Looks like NYC was spared from the worst of Irene. It's better to prepare for the worst, and hope for the best as the mayor said.

I took a walk through Time Square, Rockefeller Center, 5th Avenue, Central Park South (I was in the park and a few trees were down), Columbus Circle, and then back. There was no significant evidence of storm damage.

I won't be able to check on the bees for a few days though.

Everything was pretty much closed, especially since the MTA has shut down public transportation. I did see plenty of tourists walking around with nowhere in particular to go.

Well, at least I got plenty of canned goods, bottled water, new flashlights, batteries, and an actual 'Go Bag'.

I might want to work on getting a new 'Go Bag" though. I thought that it was a bit 'hefty' and I should look for something with wheels on it.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Think of it as stimulus.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

Acebird said:


> My guess is you are still wet behind the ears. Keep plugging away, that is how you learn.


Says the unemployed engineer to the sucessful 25 year guy.


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## Ted Kretschmann (Feb 2, 2011)

WLC, I would not put that disaster bag away just yet. The peak of hurricane season is still around two weeks away. It appears this years storm track is up the east coast. Last year is was south Texas. But this nation did not and does not need a Katrina type hit. It would be the straw that breaks the camels back! So I am glad New York city is safe. I would not be able to wander into Bubba Gumps seafood restuarant if the city was demolished and have them gawk at my southern accent--You are really from ALABAMA!?? TED PS I hope your bees are O.K>!


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

I know this thread is a bit old, but there has recently be renewed interest in the physics of 5-gallon buckets in regard to hurricanes and possibly tornadoes and I figured it was time to update the thread.

I understand that Florida is currently in the process of requiring all new construction projects to have one bucket per two square feet of roof surface...which has created an economic boom for Florida as many start-up 5-gallon bucket producing companies have been created...Florida is now experiencing a shortage of workers at Cape Canaveral, Andrews Airforce Base, and Disney World as workers are leaving by the hundreds to be part of this breathtaking time in history. To save the day Carnival Cruise Lines is donating several of their cruise ships to bring much needed workers over from Cancun, Mexico. Due to unsettled conditions in the Gulf and expected high winds and seas all of Carnival's cruise ships are now outfitted with the latest technology 5-gallon buckets on their roofs. 5-gallon bucket trials have also been made in the Bering Sea on crabbing boats...clips of the tests will be shown in a few 2014 episodes of "The Deadliest Catch" but details of the trials are still being closely guarded being as the military has an interest in FGBT (Five-Gallon-Bucket-Technology).

As a side note, insurance companies in Florida are now offering DEEP discounts on homeowner's insurance for those retrofitting their homes with FGBT and also for those who go even further and buy surplus lawn furniture to stack up for hurricane protection. Several states are considering legislation that copies Florida....Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Albama, Georgia, North Dakaota, South Dakota, New York, and New Mexico, California is considering the law just so they can use it to run up their deficit some more. It is rumored that the reclusive 5-gallon Czar is located in New York state and has stated that he will let this beehive of activity run it's course without his intervention.

Well, that's all I know about them for now. If I find something else out I'll report back....

Sincerely,
Ed


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

> which has created an economic boom for Florida as many start-up 5-gallon bucket producing companies have been created

Will there be a second economic boom when the "lid" producers ramp up, or is the lid considered superfluous to this new technology? :scratch:

> Due to unsettled conditions in the Gulf and expected high winds and seas all of Carnival's cruise ships are now outfitted with the latest technology 5-gallon buckets on their roofs.

This is an excellent plan. When those cruise ships have an engine failure and the power goes out, the toilets don't work!  But since they have an abundance of five gallon buckets, the problem is finessed! :thumbsup:

:gh:


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Ed,
"Sincerely"? Really?


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Mark, have you forgotten this? :scratch:



sqkcrk said:


> Y'all leave my 'bird alone now, ya hear? He doin' the best he can wid wha he got. Ain't we all?


Sincerely


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Forgotten? Of course.


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

Nice report but old news!
The latest advancement is SPBT. Sixty pound bucket technology.
It has been found the the increased weight and harmonic shock absorbing ability of honey and/or possibly Mayhaw Jelly is far superior to water. This is great news for the panhandle region of Florida as they produce both the jelly and Tupelo honey which doesn't granulate and retains it harmonic damping properties.


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## Bee Bliss (Jun 9, 2010)

Ed, 

Yer a lil' late fer Fools Day...........aka April Fools Day! Good un!

Who can we give credit to for the 5 gallon bucket system?? Should have a name to attach to that method so we can give credit where credit is due. BTW, does the color of the pails make a difference? Camo? Blaze orange? Ocean Blue??

I know a guy who now lives in Alaska who I heard is interviewing to be on Deadliest Catch. Will have to tell him about the Five-Gallon-Bucket Technology. Maybe he would like the blue ones!


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

> Who can we give credit to for the 5 gallon bucket system??

Ed is one of those with recent improvements to this groundbreaking technology, but he did pay homage to the original inventor. To wit:



> It is rumored that the reclusive 5-gallon Czar is located in New York state


Look back through the thread for a prolific poster located in Utica, NY 

:lookout:

I'd provide a link to his Beesource profile, but he seems to be shy about all the publicity surrounding this breakthrough.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

Does anyone know if he actually went speeding down the highway with a bucket of water on the roof of his car? 

I thought he was going to conduct an experiment and report back to us. It's been over a year and a half. Were are the results?


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

The thread is funny but I've had that guy ignored for more than a year so I missed the initial bucket bs. Testament to that particular kind of genius. Anyway we were visiting my aunt in Florida several years back before a hurricane hit so I got to spend my vacation boarding up her windows and throwing theirs and the neighbor's lawn furniture in the pool. Then we all got the heck out of Dodge and came back to Colorado. A neighbor showed me a pic of a 2x4 that got pushed through his stuccoed cinder block wall during a tornado (in Kansas) and it looked like the 2x4 could have been picked up and re-sold. He also said that he has been through hurricanes and tornadoes and they are both equally horrible in their own ways. Looks like he and my aunt should have invested in buckets instead of plywood. :lpf:


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

Acebird said:


> As it stands now Rader keeps increasing my views count on the thread.


Is there a forum feature that I'm not familiar with? 

Is there a "my views count"?


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Not that I am aware of. I would ask Radar that question.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

> Not that I am aware of. I would ask Radar that question.

Lets see .... Ace makes a :squestionable:scratch: statement. Someone else asks for an explanation, and then Ace says that he would ask _me _to explain Ace's own questionable statement. :lpf:


I can think of a few possible explanations of this situation, but posting the most likely one may be frowned upon by _Barry_. So, for the record, I think this situation is brought about by _sunspots_!

:ws:

Don't forget to keep your _tinfoil hat _on!


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

And yet Brian's statement is true, isn't it?


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

sqkcrk said:


> And yet Brian's statement is true, isn't it?


Yes, his statement, which contridicts his first, is true...


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

_I have no special access or knowledge about this forum software (vBulletin). The following is what I have seen simply by observing the forum. YMMV _:lookout:_


Threads _have view counts. Individual members, i.e. _posters _do not have view counts, AFAIK. 

The person that started a thread may consider the thread views as some sort of reflection upon "his" thread, but to claim that simply making a post to a given thread increases a member's "_view count_" is not reasonable.

Ace did not start this thread. How can he claim that his "view counts" are increasing? :scratch:

Individual members have "post counts". Surely _most _members reading this forum understand the difference between "views" and "posts"! Don't they?:scratch: :lookout: :lpf:


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> Ace did not start this thread. How can he claim that his "view counts" are increasing? :scratch:
> 
> Individual members have "post counts". Surely _most _members reading this forum understand the difference between "views" and "posts"! Don't they?:scratch: :lookout: :lpf:


Easy explanation. In his haste to become one of the top posters on Beesource and thus establish ultimate cred, Ace blindly assumes that there must be some other metric that can get him there faster. Some secret parameter that must be hidden from him, and only him. Obviously it must be some type of view count function, similar to "likes" on Facebook, "diggs"







on Digg, or Reddit "karma". It stems from an unhealthy combination of paranoia and ego. Luckily for him such a system does not exist because ironically, he would be down-voted into oblivion.


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

Nabber86 said:


> Luckily for him such a system does not exist because ironically, he would be down-voted into oblivion.


:thumbsup:


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> And yet Brian's statement is true, isn't it?


You're just egging him on. Arn't you Mark?


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