# Brad Nailer or Staple Gun for Frame Assembly?



## gunter62 (Feb 13, 2011)

As a cabinetmaker with 25 years experience, I prefer staples when assembling frames.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Brad nails dont have much of a head so more prone to pull through. Staples dont have that problem and each has two shafts to reduce pull out. If you are stapling through the ears of the sidebars, it takes better aim if you are using staples rather than brads. If you get a combination nailer, you can use either. If you are putting large staples down thru the top bar into the end of the sidebars you might need two different sizes. Aw, get yourself the staple gun too;, never be under gunned!


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## guyross (Feb 18, 2011)

Crown staplers are great brads pull through. Is was stapling sign post to a board. The staples were just a little too long. I had a time getting it loose from my workbench.


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## ShadowHawk (Apr 17, 2011)

Titebond III to glue them up first., then 1" Staples with my pneumatic staple-gun.


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## roostershooter7 (May 26, 2011)

OK. Since we've established that I should use staples. Would the 1/4" x 1 1/4" crown stapler be sufficient?


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

we use titebond with 1 1/4 staples. the most important one is the horizontal one thru the end bars. It is important to make quality frame.


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## ShadowHawk (Apr 17, 2011)

roostershooter7 said:


> OK. Since we've established that I should use staples. Would the 1/4" x 1 1/4" crown stapler be sufficient?


That's what I use. The smaller 1/4" crown works great for the frames. My gun will shoot finish nails OR staples. Staples do the trick!

What foundation (if any) are you using?


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## blueskybeesupply (Dec 11, 2007)

roostershooter7 said:


> OK. Since we've established that I should use staples. Would the 1/4" x 1 1/4" crown stapler be sufficient?


Perfect. The staples cross through the grains and hold tight. As beeware10 says, Titebond II and the shot horizontally through endbars into the top bar is key.


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

This is all you need.

http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/R150FSA-Stapler/index.htm


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## standman (Mar 14, 2008)

I use the 1/4 inch with success. But beware: when you shoot the staple through the end bar into the top bar, keep your finger out of the way. Several times the side staple has made contact with the top staple, and curved right up through the top bar. It only took once through the tip of my thumb for me to learn this lesson. Would like to save you the painful experience.


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## toekneepea (Jul 7, 2010)

Charlie B said:


> This is all you need.
> 
> http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/R150FSA-Stapler/index.htm


That's the one I have, and love it.

Tony P.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

Wow! that is not a bad price either. Look for it on the Home Depot web site and it is pried at $109. I own both a frame and a finish nailer. the frame nailer cost over $400 and the finish just short of $400. I was was starting to think that, Man the cost of a stapler is going to require you make a lot of frames to gain any savings. I own a few Rigid tools and although not the best I have ever seen they are not cheaply made either.


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

I'm very new to the whole stapler scene, as the ones I've used in the past are spring loaded (http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053). Forgive me if this is a dumb question, but the Ridgid link posted earlier is air powered and requires an air compressor, correct?

The spring loaded one, while it saves some time, still is slow. I'd prefer to upgrade, but don't know if I can swing a $200 stapler along with a $200-400 air compressor into my budget . . .


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## ShadowHawk (Apr 17, 2011)

I got my air stapler/nailer at Harbor Freight for about $49 (maybe less - I don't remember), and use it with a $99 compressor. 

I'm lucky - in that I have a Harbor Freight location within 10 minutes of my home. Figure in about $30 of hose & fittings - and you're set. Keep your air tools clean, dry, and properly maintained - and they'll last you a LONG time.


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

Specialkayme said:


> the Ridgid link posted earlier is air powered and requires an air compressor, correct?
> The spring loaded one, while it saves some time, still is slow. I'd prefer to upgrade, but don't know if I can swing a $200 stapler along with a $200-400 air compressor into my budget . . .


Yes, you need a compressor with the Ridgid stapler. You can also go on Amazon and get a refurbished Ridgid for about $60.00 that works just as well. That's where I got mine. Look for a good refurbished compressor while your at it. They have some good deals.


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## fish_stix (May 17, 2009)

A small pancake style compressor will work just fine. I bought a kit at Home Depot that had a compressor, framing nailer and 1/4" stapler for $199.00 but that's been several years ago.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

I'm just a newbee getting ready for next year, but I like the 1/4"x1" crown staples for going down through the top bar into the side bars and for going through the side bars up into the top bar. I don't like the staples for attaching the bottom bar to the side bars due to too many blow outs...I've started using two nails hammered through the bottom bars up into the side bars and like the results much better. Basically staples topside and nails bottomside.

Ed


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

Ed,

Try the 3/4 " or even the 1/2" length staple for the bottom bars. You won't have any blow outs if you adjust your depth shallow.
I hate to see you do all that extra work!


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

That is what I use with Tight-bond 3. I like the Rigid Stapler. I love to staple things. I love my stapler best one out there.

I get my staples from Harbor Freight. 13.99 bucks a box. They jam and break allot but, they are still less then the price from HD . So I am ahead of the game.

http://www.newwoodworker.com/reviews/r150fsarvu.html
http://www.harborfreight.com/5000-p...uge-1-4-quarter-inch-crown-staples-37112.html




Intheswamp said:


> I don't like the staples for attaching the bottom bar to the side bars due to too many blow outs...


Get a better stapler and set the depth better.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Charlie B said:


> Ed,
> 
> Try the 3/4 " or even the 1/2" length staple for the bottom bars. You won't have any blow outs if you adjust your depth shallow.
> I hate to see you do all that extra work!


Good idea, Charlie. I don't like that extra work, either...it sure creates a bottle neck on my already slow frame assembly. I'm afraid there would be a lot of swapping going on, though, as I'm building one at a time. I need to build a jig and that would help things a lot...do all the tops, flip them over, swap out staples, and do the bottoms. Ok, now to find a spot to set up my tablesaw....

Ed


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## valleyman (Nov 24, 2009)

I feel that I need to comment because there are some misstatements in some of the posts. I use titebond III which is supposed to be waterproof. I use a staple gun & a brad nailer with a pancake compressor all from harbor freight. All for less than $120.00. The first brad nailer was bad and they exchanged it out. I detest having to buy things from China, but if I couldn't have bought them this cheap I would have continued to nail them by hand. I do not and will not use staples anywhere except down thru the top bar into the end bar. In my opinion the other areas are too small for staples and will split too easily or wind up stapling myself, or have them come thru and have to be pulled out. I have absolutley never had a problem with the frames coming apart since I started using tite bond. I have a small table that my compressor sits under. I have on top, a frame assembly jig (bought from Kelleys), my brad nailer, my staple gun, and my bottle of tite bond III. Most of you understand that it is the glue that is holding the frames together, and the brad/staple is merely the holding agent until the glue cures. I assemble 10 frames at a time without having to change brads and staples or pull out staples because of improper insertation. It is a very effective and speedy assembly process. I mean for $19.99 for the extra gun, why would you change ammunition in a gun, or handle your frames 2-3 times. I'm not that fond of assembling frames. I also use longer brads to assemble my boxes, also with titebond III, with absolutley no problems. If you don't want to buy Chinese the by all means get both guns in what ever brand you get, and good luck in finding any brand not made in China, or somewhere other than the USA. Good luck!!


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

Ed,

This is a great excuse to have two Rigids! It worked like a charm with my wife. My Porter Cable compressor has a split for two air hoses. I load one up for frames and the other for Inner/Outer covers, SBB's etc. C'mon, treat your self to all the tools you can get. I mean after all, it's for the bees! :thumbsup:


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

Valleyman,

I think everyone is aware that the glue does the bonding and not the staple. The staple is just a "clamp" until the glue dries. I've never met a beekeeper in person or on-line that didn't use Titebond III. If your getting blowouts you're not doing it correctly.

I do finish carpentry for a living and I don't buy cheap crappy tools. They may be fine for putting together thin frames every once in a while but when you have to trim out several houses, that's a different story. You get what you pay for. You already had to take one stapler back and it won't be long before you take your second one back.


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## guyross (Feb 18, 2011)

My stapler is my third hand. If I want to join two pieces at a ninety I put glue on it and tack it with a staple before drilling and counter boring for a screw. My next stapler will shoot the T50 staples for attaching the bottom bars. I'm not sure of the width but only one is required. It bridges the gap on slotted bottom bars.


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## weavefish (Sep 24, 2011)

Wish i had read this thread before i put my frames together... using a 16oz claw hammer was no fun :/


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## valleyman (Nov 24, 2009)

Charlie B,
I thought that I made it clear that the harbor freight freight stuff is not professional equipment. But if all you're going to do with it is put together some frames or bee boxes it will suffice. I don't think you can tell me too much about tools as I spent 42 years as a skilled tradesman (mechanical). Have farmed and worked on automobiles all my life. I am not disagreeing with you, quiet the opposite. You get what you pay for and pay for what you get, but as I said for limited use and for the money they will do the job. If I had much other use for them then they would have come from the USA. I would also remind you that almost all tools are coming from China, and most have been cheapened up except for the price. Such a shame that professionals have trouble finding excellent tools. I only buy USA name plate made vehicles, appliances, and any other big ticket items. Do you? It is getting harder and harder to find USA made products. 
As far as the blowouts are concerned if you are driving a brad or especially a staple thru a bottom bar into an end frame are you going to tell me that you are good enough to never have one come thru? Give me a break the grain of the wood will steer one out occasionally.
Also if you will check ALL on here do not understand that it is the glue that holds, and not the nails, brads, or staples.


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

I would highly recommend the Harbor Freight guns. I have used mine hard and shot a good many staples through it and it still works fine.
mike


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

valleyman said:


> Charlie B,
> As far as the blowouts are concerned if you are driving a brad or especially a staple thru a bottom bar into an end frame are you going to tell me that you are good enough to never have one come thru? Give me a break the grain of the wood will steer one out occasionally.



I've NEVER had a blowout using my Ridgid stapler fastening bottom bars to end frames. The reason is not because I have exceptional woodworking talent, it's because I use the appropriate length staple set at the appropriate depth. I use 3/4" length. Just enough to act as a clamp for the glue. The legs of the staple at that length greatly reduces the propensity to come out through the side of the end bars (if you hold your stapler straight and not at an angle), but long enough to make a good tight joint for the glue to set. 

I apologize for the abrasiveness in my original post.


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## valleyman (Nov 24, 2009)

I can understand if your staples are short that you could do it without a mistake. Even though I understand completely that it is the glue that holds and not the staple or brad, I still have a tendency to use a length that can blow out. Mine will usually penetrate the end bar 1/2" or more. I have a tendency to over do a lot of things in life. Most of the time it serves me well as I detest doing things over. We all need to keep an open mind on this forum. I feel that I can learn something from most posters on here. Good luck!!


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Charlie B said:


> The staple is just a "clamp" until the glue dries.


I think there needs to be some data given to show that it's not just glue holding the joints together.

www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplrn/fplrn100.pdf

If you think it's glue doing all the work, I challenge you to make up a bunch of frames without any nails/staples (glue only) and tell us how well they hold up.


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## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

Good point, Barry. I think of glue/nails as a redundant system, each item covering the weaknesses of the other system. Either would work most of the time. In woodworking, I've seen glue joints fail and nails loosen. Together, they cover most of the problems of either. I used staples vertically and brads horizontally until I started needing a bunch of frames. Now, I use Pierco.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Glue has it's place for sure. I always like to point out that my 123 year old house is held together entirely with nails. The other factor is placement of nails. Installing nails/staples like this / or this | or this - will all play a role in the over all strength of the frame. If I had to only use one or the other, I'd opt for nails/staples. But the best is to use both, as you say.


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## TWall (May 19, 2010)

Charlie B said:


> I've never met a beekeeper in person or on-line that didn't use Titebond III.


I'm one. I've used Titebond II on all my frames so far. It works with waterfowl decoys that spend time in water. No blow out or frame failures from glue failure. Next time I buy glue I may get the Titebond III. 

Tom


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## MT204 (May 12, 2011)

I think something that is also being overlooked here is what finish of fastener is being used? In some of the past posts there have been links to certain brands of staples, and if you look they do not say they are galvanized. Most manufacturers produce 1/4" staples (and other sizes) that are either bright, galvanized or stainless steel. It seems like a waste of time to assemble frames (or other products) with out galvanized or stainless fasteners only to have them rust and fail. Usually if the fasteners do not say they are galvanized or stainless they are not.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

MT204 said:


> It seems like a waste of time to assemble frames with out galvanized or stainless fasteners only to have them rust and fail.


Are frames exposed to enough moisture to really require galvanized? That's what I use for frames but am unsure weather it would make much difference. Maybe moisture and acids from the wood combined might rust them away?


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## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

All the commonly available brads and staples that I see are at least galvanized. I use Titebond II as it has more open time and the bottle says "for outdoor furniture".
Given a choice, I would also use nails. My early carpentry training was as a framing carpenter in the old "New England" style- all toenails, no pneumatic tools. Now, after 30+ yrs, when I go in those houses, it's obvious that they have held up better than those built with all flat nails from nailguns.


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## pascopol (Apr 23, 2009)

After trying to assemble frames with 2 lower end staplers from Harbor Freight I was discouraged and disgusted. Jamming, messing with oil etc. 

So I did some research and bought Rigid from HD for $89.00.

Worth every penny, easy foolproof, oil less stapler. It is a pleasure to work with.

Some people claim it never jams. I only own it for 2 weeks now, but it seems to me I will never use brads or nails for anything requiring up to 1.5" nails.
Lifetime guarantee included, no extra money for "extended" warranty.

Nice quality safety glasses, and bunch of 1" quality staples comes with it as a bonus including handsome carrying pouch.

Those 2 junky staplers from HF cost me about the same, they ended in trash can, what a waste of money and tons of stress!


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## ccar2000 (Aug 9, 2009)

1-1/4" Brads and titebond. I haven't had one come apart yet. The pneumatic brad nailer was a hand me down Porter Cable.


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## mmiller (Jun 17, 2010)

TWall said:


> I'm one. I've used Titebond II on all my frames so far. It works with waterfowl decoys that spend time in water. No blow out or frame failures from glue failure. Next time I buy glue I may get the Titebond III.
> 
> Tom


Same here on both frames and waterfowl decoys. I won't switch to titebond III though as it is more expensive and I haven't had any troubles.

Mike


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## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

ccar2000 said:


> 1-1/4" Brads and titebond. I haven't had one come apart yet. The pneumatic brad nailer was a hand me down Porter Cable.


I also use brads and titebond. Havnt had a frame come apart in the extractor or pull apart in the hive yet. I put two brad in the top and two in the bottom and one (each side) into the top bar from the side bar.


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## Scrapfe (Jul 25, 2008)

Won't a quick dip in a tub of water eliminate most frame pieces from splitting and help Titebond to bond better?


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Not sure it makes the glue bond better but a few minute immersion of each end of the end bars will pretty much eliminate any splitting problems.


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## BGhoney (Sep 26, 2007)

I won't buy harbor freight air staplers or brad nailers anymore. I've had 3 staplers and 3 nailers, they lasted about a day each and I had to take , I've taken them back and paid for the warrenty, but its not worth much when your ready to work and your guns stops again. I just let the warrenty expire without taking them back. Theres a harbor freight 3 minutes out of my way. Got a refurbished pasload for about 70. Its worked for 2 years so far..


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

Best stapler ever! Forget the brads.

http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/R150FSA-Stapler/index.htm


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Charlie B said:


> Best stapler ever! Forget the brads.
> 
> Not to disagree with the vice PRESIDENT, but,
> 
> ...


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## pascopol (Apr 23, 2009)

I just put together 100 frames with Rigid, not one misfired shot or jam, I do not care if it spans the grooves or not, since in my case using pierco foundation crowns do not get in way of foundation using grooved bars.



I just assembled bunch of plywood nucs using Rigid and 1.5 " crowns.

What a difference in time and effort saving! I plan to use crowns to assemble pine and cypress supers too.

Also it was mentioned that quality of brads or staples plays a role when it comes to jams and mishaps using any stapler.

Not to disagree with this statement which surely applies to low quality staplers,

but, I bought 5000 cheap 1.5" crowns with my first staplers from HF, using them now with my Rigid, no problems whatsoever. Rigid shots them just as well as good quality crowns which came with it.


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## the doc (Mar 3, 2010)

http://www.harborfreight.com/air-to...18-gauge-2-in-1-nailerstapler-68019-8341.html

i have used this one for 3 yrs and fired thousands thru it without problem


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