# do different colored mites mean anything?



## buford (Feb 22, 2005)

now that i'm using a white board, i'm noticing several shades of mites (clear to red/brown).

do the different colors mean anything?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Clear or white ones are immature when the bees emerge from the capped cell. I think the mature ones change color a little as they get older and as they dry out.


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## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

Clear and whitish mites are immature mites
who did not have enough time to mature before
the bee emerged.

The good news is that the clear/white mites
will never reproduce.

Some people count the white mites, some don't.
It is one of the things that makes it hard to
compare mite counts from different studies or
different beekeepers' records. 

The fact that few papers ever even mention
the data-gathering methodology used in this
specific regard is a sign that some
authoritative-looking and sounding researchers
need to borrow a cup of clue, and think more
slowly and carefully about what they are counting,
and why.


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## ronzo0424 (Apr 30, 2004)

according to Marla Spivak Phd at the university of minnesota the light colored mites are the males and the dark ones are the females
please people if you dont really know that you have the correct info dont post on this site
ive seen so much incorrect info here i just cant take it anymore. i mean there are new beekeepers reading this stuff and they
need all the good info that they can get to have a good first experience with bees. not a bunch of second hand b.s.


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## Jim Young (Aug 31, 2004)

ronzo0424, perhaps you would care to review published literature regarding males and immature female mites which are unable to survive outside the sealed cell when the host bee emerges. 

http://www.csl.gov.uk/science/organ/environ/bee/diseases/varroa/historyvarroa.cfm

[ October 12, 2005, 07:48 PM: Message edited by: Jim Young ]


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>according to Marla Spivak Phd at the university of minnesota the light colored mites are the males and the dark ones are the females

I'm sure that's what you believe she said. Let's look closer:

>the light colored mites are the males and the dark ones are the females

This is close to true. The yellow ones (which are lighter than the purple/brown ones) are the males. The transparent ones are immature females and the dark ones are mature females.

The males are the first egg laid. One and only one is laid by the adult female that got in the cell. Then she lays about 4 to 6 or more female eggs over the next few days (depending on if they are drones or workers). By emergence only two or three of these are mature.

The males are pale yellow to gray. The imature females are almost transparent to white.

Besides, it really doesn't matter. The only viable ones are the females that reach maturity and manage to mate before the bee emerges.

>please people if you dont really know that you have the correct info dont post on this site
ive seen so much incorrect info here i just cant take it anymore. i mean there are new beekeepers reading this stuff and they
need all the good info that they can get to have a good first experience with bees. not a bunch of second hand b.s. 

It was all correct info. We did not make it up. It is not BS. It is not second hand other than reading it many other sources.


http://www.vita.demon.co.uk/varroa.htm
http://maarec.cas.psu.edu/pest&disease/sl13.html
http://maarec.cas.psu.edu/pest&disease/sl14.html
http://creatures.ifas.ufl.edu/misc/bees/varroa_mite.htm


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## 2rubes (Apr 28, 2005)

That is an awesome varroa calculator http://www.csl.gov.uk/science/organ/environ/bee/diseases/varroa/varroacalculator.cfm which I just used to figure out our mite colony in our most infested hives, now showing counts of 100 mites a day. According to the calculator, that's 7000 mites in the colony of which 90% are hiding and reproducing in capped brood (per Dr. Ellis). Last week on that same hive (and one other with 80 mites a day), I did a powdered sugar treatment because I was getting a little nervous with the high counts. I counted a little over 700 mites mixed in the powdered sugar on the more infested one (didnt count the other, you could see it had a lot of mites and I'm so tired of counting). With this info, I think that means I trapped all available mites and left about 6000 to keep on reproducing. My plan was to wait until early November when the queen stops lying and the brood has hatched and then treat all of the hives with powdered sugar or rye flour to capture all exposed mites. If I did a treatment each week for 4 to 5 weeks, I should really lower that count dramatically. 
Another question, I wonder what would be more stressful, going into the hives on a weekly basis and dumping powdered sugar to get rid of 700 mites at a time them or waiting until the first week of November (weather willing) and doing a treatment to get most of them all at once. We are talking about 4 or 5 weeks. 
Rye Flour, anyone try that or have a comment? We had an old beekeeper up here use it as a pollen substitute and was pretty happy with it. Im going to dump it on one of our hives to see how it works as a mite treatment. On these last treatments, we saw bees removing particles of powdered sugar. I thought they might like a change. 
Janet


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## louis1st (Oct 17, 2004)

Hi Janet

I think i have read on here somewhere that using flour could be dangerous for the bees and brood (not the sugar).
I would not try to do the sugar dumping when it's too cold.

Is the powder sugar method not so good then???


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## buford (Feb 22, 2005)

thanks.

also, sometimes i see what looks like a mite's shell (that oval shape), but there's no mite in there.

has it just been dead for while or is it something else?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>sometimes i see what looks like a mite's shell 

I'm guessing, but I'd guess that the ants ate it.


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## David Stewart (Jan 22, 2005)

>I'm guessing, but I'd guess that the ants ate it.

I've also seen what appears to be mite "shells". If I don't "grease" up the board under the screen, small ants are everywhere. I don't see them inside the boxes during inspections but they sure love the bottom board. The other day I noticed two of the ants with (natural drop) mites. Without a camera I can't be certain but I'm pretty sure the ants cart the little buggers off pretty quickly. Makes me smile.

David


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## buford (Feb 22, 2005)

i get the idea that if a person can read a white board well, then they can have a very good idea of exactly what's going on upstairs.

is there a link that teaches a person how to read the board REALLY well (reading all the other "stuff" that one may find on the board)?

btw, in "the beekeeper's handbook" (sammataro) they say that male mites are a different size, smaller than the female.


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## loryb1 (Oct 11, 2005)

Having just used powdered sugar on a hive for the third time, I just wanted to add my observation.
I am seeing mites of differing colors from almost clear to pale reddish to the dark brown. However today I saw some that looked about 1/4 the size of the regular mite. Are tracheal mites visible to the naked eye?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I am seeing mites of differing colors from almost clear to pale reddish to the dark brown. 

Different ages or differents states of decay.

>However today I saw some that looked about 1/4 the size of the regular mite.

And what color?

>Are tracheal mites visible to the naked eye? 

Not really. You can see them with a really good magnifying glass or a low powered microscope. But they don't look anything like Varroa:

http://maarec.cas.psu.edu/pest&disease/sl32.html


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

May I make a humble suggestion, dear friends?
O.K. Remember the first year that you became involved with bees? What did you do?
You went to Beeschool where you learned among other things, the life cycle of the honeybee.
I can picture the chart 15 years later as I type this note.
What did you do next?
You became really enthused, and read everything you could get your hands on; right?
Well here's my position on beekeeping and Mitekeeping:
You are going to have varroa in your hives for the forseeable future. It is my view that to be a succsessful beekeeper, you must also be a savy Mitekeeper. Beekeeping amd Mitekeeping are alot the same, you are just managing in opposite directions.
As a beekeeper, you learn everything about nutrition, reproduction, ailments, etc and you manage for the optimum for the bees.
As a Mitekeeper, we need to learn about the same things as they apply to the mites, however, we will manage with this information to repress the succsess of the mites.
Beekeepers blindly fogging their hives or dumping powdered suger or placing strips into hives with no knowledge of the pest will end up losing hives.
Reading and understanding the many materials published is a short read. It helps us to recognize the STRATEGY behind our control approach.
Visit your local bee supply and pick up a book on mites. Visit the on-line slide show that Janet posted; its excellent. Dont stop until you know as much about varroa as you do bees. Its that important.
Well thats my humble view, now flame away!


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Beekeepers blindly fogging their hives or dumping powdered suger or placing strips into hives with no knowledge of the pest will end up losing hives.

Absolutely.

>Dont stop until you know as much about varroa as you do bees. Its that important.

It is that important.


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## buford (Feb 22, 2005)

o.k.

harry,

thank you. a list of suggested reading would be helpful (there's nothing worse than paying for books that are already outdated).

i have started treating my colonies on a hive by hive basis (with some of the harder meds if necessary or going into winter, like now).

however, i was under the impression that fogging with FGMO once a week (or every other week, while the bees are flying) was a good idea, whether mites were noticed or not.

it is a surprise to hear that i could hurt a hive this way and to hear michael's strong affirmative.

could you give some examples or specifics regarding this, as well as suggestions.

thanks


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## buford (Feb 22, 2005)

what's the link to the "slide show"


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>>>Beekeepers blindly fogging their hives or dumping powdered suger or placing strips into hives with no knowledge of the pest will end up losing hives.
>>Absolutely.
>however, i was under the impression that fogging with FGMO once a week (or every other week, while the bees are flying) was a good idea, whether mites were noticed or not.

What I am agreeing with here is that doing anything (FGMO, powdered sugar, Apistan etc.) to control the mites without knowing the life cycle of the mites and being able to quantify the Varroa mites is likely to fail. You'll have no feedback as to whether you are suceeding or failing and no understanding to interpret the numbers.

Straight FGMO is an inert "chemical" and if you're using that method you would be doing it every week to keep the mites under control. If you're talking about "fogging" with other things you'll have to decide, but regardless, you should be able to identify, quantify and understand the mites.

>it is a surprise to hear that i could hurt a hive this way

There are many treatments and methods of controling mites that aren't treatments, but regardless you should be able to quantify the problem. You CAN hurt the hive with apistan and checkmite and even formic acid or oxalic acid. IMO the FGMO probably isn't going to hurt anything.

> and to hear michael's strong affirmative.

My affirmative is that you shouldn't be treating blindly when you don't know or understand the nature or extent of a problem. Even if you are fogging every week with FGMO, you should still be counting mites, learning about their reproductive cycle and getting feedback (in terms of numbers) as to the success or failure of the method you are using.


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## buford (Feb 22, 2005)

thanks


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## 2rubes (Apr 28, 2005)

This is the best article on Screened bottom boards and counting mites. I'm not sure what the date of it is, just found it.
Janet
http://www.njbeekeepers.org/ScreenedBottomBoards.htm


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

>doing anything (FGMO, powdered sugar, Apistan etc.) to control the mites without knowing the life cycle of the mites and being able to quantify the Varroa mites is likely to fail. You'll have no feedback as to whether you are suceeding or failing and no understanding to interpret the numbers.

Boy . . .
This statement (when fully understood) is more helpful than a thousand books, one hundred mentors, or a bossy spouce


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