# McCormick, alias Billy Bee introduces its new Natural Farms honey, a blend of Chinese



## irwin harlton (Jan 7, 2005)

and Canadian honey

http://s43.photobucket.com/user/buzz1356/media/McCormick honey/074.jpg.html


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## Haraga (Sep 12, 2011)

Now there is a bandwagon that zhive should be spending his time on.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

"Natural Honey Farms", how about "Cheap Offshore Blended Honey Farms"
I wonder which would sell better


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## irwin harlton (Jan 7, 2005)

Heard this story about McCormicks, A friend sold them some honey 2 years after they bought Billy Bee, Payment was by cheque as they had not set up direct deposit
yet, friend noticed when he got his cheque it was mailed from McCormick's headquarters in the USA, in Canadian $, so friend says they are really pretending to be a Canadian company but are financed out of the states.McCormicks paid 75 million for Billy Bee,and didn't get the property the plant sat on...guess they gotta make that back somehow.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

According to this article, about a year after McComick bought Billy Bee in 2008, they opened a _new _honey processing plant in the London Ontario area.

http://www.lfpress.com/2014/07/13/m...nding-production-and-jobs-at-its-london-plant

Total McCormick Canadian employment is about 650.


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

Haraga said:


> Now there is a bandwagon that zhive should be spending his time on.


look at that we can agree on something! I am glad that it's not something my customers would be interested in.


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## irwin harlton (Jan 7, 2005)

How will this cheaper Canadian/Chinese honey affect the Canadian honey market? 
This product is showing up now in major chains of grocery stores and other lower priced store chains, McCormicks brought in several million lbs ,according to various reports and this is probably a ongoing importation process...providing it sells 
No doubt cheap honey sells and if you want volume sales you just apply yourself to the simple rules.

I can see where this, could, will lead to every Canadian packer importing cheaper sourced honey just to be competitive...much like what the US market is today. Canadian producers will maybe enjoy a certain bonus price for the Canadian flag on the product.The industrial market from what I've heard has already taken some big hits in price on cheap imported honey and their blends.This marketing strategy by McCormicks will no doubt end very badly for consumers and producers


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

I wonder how many consumers will look past the "Natural Farms Honey" brand name and the cheap price? I think the Canada #1 stamp is the same thing in the consumers eye as Canadian produced honey.


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## Dominic (Jul 12, 2013)

Yea...

They should replace "CANADA #1" with "CFIA #1", it would be much less misleading.


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

Here in Europe there are two very troubling situations similar :
1 ) European honey mixed with Chinese honey appears to the consumer with the following label in small letter: from EU and non-EU . In my opinion should clearly mention the origin of honey : China!
2) more seriously, in Spain there is honey in the market with the designation " Honey " clearly visible ... but in fine print tells the consumer that honey has 30 % glucose . In my opinion and according to the law , the appointment of " Honey " does not allow any mixture of other substances.
A scam to which it seems that the authorities turn a blind eye !

Europeans have to sell the cars to the Chinese, is not it?


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## irwin harlton (Jan 7, 2005)

In Canada, we supposedly have laws against miss-labelled products, but if your a big corporation ,you can bend the rules....McCormicks has deep pockets


http://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/eic/site/cb-bc.nsf/eng/h_00148.html#packaging



What is the Consumer Packaging and Labelling Act?

The Consumer Packaging and Labelling Act is a criminal statute relating to the packaging, labelling, sale, importation and advertising of prepackaged and certain other products.

It requires that prepackaged consumer products bear accurate and meaningful labelling information to help consumers make informed purchasing decisions. The Act prohibits false or misleading representations and sets out specifications for mandatory label information such as the product's name, net quantity and dealer identity.

The Consumer Packaging and Labelling Act
Regulations
Guide to the Consumer Packaging and Labelling Act and Regulations

I think I and a few other beekeeper will make their pockets a little less full

file your complaint here http://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/eic/site/cb-bc.nsf/frm-eng/GHÉT-7TDNA5


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## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

The last couple of weeks we've been seeing Billy Bee honey by the pallet in superstore. In big letters on the front it says 'Canada No. 1', then in very small letters on the back, it says it's a blend of canada and argentina honey.

So my question for you folks that know the rules on such things, how much canadian honey does the blend have to contain, in order to still use the Canada No. 1 label ? 

I do find it somewhat misleading, the label does seem to imply it's canadian honey with the big Canada No. 1 on the front. I'm pretty sure the vast majority of folks never look at the fine print on the back side that show it's actually a blend.


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## JodieToadie (Dec 26, 2013)

It is incredibly misleading. I know of no other product with such misleading labelling attached to it. You have to really look for the fine print unless it is BeeMaid or the Walmart econo brand which has a clear label stating it is a Product of Canada.
I think the Canadian Honey Council should focus it's lobbying power on getting this changed.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

"Canada #1" is a honey "*grade*", not a statement of country of origin. As I read this page:


> A grade declaration on a product for which a grade standard is prescribed cannot be used unless the honey establishment is registered with the Canadian Food Inspection Agency (CFIA).
> 
> Canadian Honey [HIGHLIGHT]or repackaged [/HIGHLIGHT] and graded Imported Honey:
> 
> ...


... as long as the imported honey is *repackaged *in Canada, its perfectly OK to use the "Canada #1" label (presuming that the honey does grade to meet the required #1 specs). 


CFIA Country of Origin regulations are here: http://www.inspection.gc.ca/food/la...oducts/eng/1392907854578/1392907941975?chap=7


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Graham you have hit the nail on the head.

Irwin, are you suggesting that McCormick is bending the rules because they have deep pockets? From where I sit they are working within the laws of the land. Is it misleading? About as much as some brands of orange juice labelled "Canada No 1".

Jean-Marc


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Eduardo Gomes said:


> 1 ) European honey mixed with Chinese honey appears to the consumer with the following label in small letter: from EU and non-EU . In my opinion should clearly mention the origin of honey : China!


Sounds like what used to be on honey labels here in the States. 

"Product of US, Argentina, and/or other countries". The and/or was, of course, China.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> "Canada #1" is a honey "*grade*", not a statement of country of origin. As I read this page:
> 
> 
> ... as long as the imported honey is *repackaged *in Canada, its perfectly OK to use the "Canada #1" label (presuming that the honey does grade to meet the required #1 specs).
> ...


Sounds similar to "US Grade A" which means little more than that it's under 18.6% If there is one thing ALL beekeepers should agree on, it's that labeling should make it abundantly clear to the consumer exactly what they are buying.


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

jim lyon said:


> If there is one thing ALL beekeepers should agree on, it's that labeling should make it abundantly clear to the consumer exactly what they are buying.


I agree . Although within the law to question whether consumers will know whether or not what that reference means remains.
In my opinion the labeling should be so clear that even a child of 6 years could decode correctly .
In Portugal and Europe labeling is very opaque.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Time for the CFIA to get familiar with the MNR test. Honey that is suspect for Ultra filtering and syrup blending needs to follow through testing. But... how many Canadian and American producers would rather the test not be adopted...


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## Birds&Bees (Feb 26, 2009)

The younger generation of consumers do in fact read labels especially the fine print. This is a very savvy group which food processors are very aware of. This group is also very suspicious of the food they eat. The issue of the Canada Grade label being deceiving to consumers has been a constant irritant to beekeepers. Doesn't ever change but the consumer has for that very reason.


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## irwin harlton (Jan 7, 2005)

The Grade ,on the front label, should be followed by what is in the container ,whatever blend of honey's from whatever countries.
When these rules were revised every stake holder was allowed to submit their opinions.
McCormick ,will not doubt be entering the US market with this or a similar product soon after they get their market share in Canada from these low prices


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## JodieToadie (Dec 26, 2013)

I went through the grocery store and could find no other instance of Canada #1 used in this manner. Could you give me a real world example Jean Marc? I checked the orange juice as you suggested and it is not the case. (Not only that but what Canadian would believe or want orange juice from Canada?) This is blatantly misleading the consumer. 


jean-marc said:


> Graham you have hit the nail on the head.
> 
> Irwin, are you suggesting that McCormick is bending the rules because they have deep pockets? From where I sit they are working within the laws of the land. Is it misleading? About as much as some brands of orange juice labelled "Canada No 1".
> 
> Jean-Marc


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## irwin harlton (Jan 7, 2005)

I think we have to revisit US honey packing history to understand the potential damage this importation of cheap Chinese honey can do to our industry.
One particular US packer,XXXX Farms ,managed to increase market share so much he was able to buy out several other large packers, at probably a distressed price.You cannot compete with Chinese honey prices,quality yes,quantity no
It seems rather strange that our US neighbor applies a duty of2.63/kg while we in Canada let this inferior product in to our country duty free.Can anyone tell me why this should be occurring,only thing I see is somebody at CFIA is asleep or they figure, the price of honey is too high in Canada

http://usa.chinadaily.com.cn/epaper/2013-07/01/content_16696319.htm

It has actually been shown in the US that the Chinese government supports and condones the selling, smuggling of this product ,The same people that recently hacked a gov't site http://www.theglobeandmail.com/.../chine.../article19818728/


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Joadie, in the past I saw orange juice in a carton, it was in a refrigerated section of the store labelled that way. That was the point Joadie. Every Canadian knows you cannot grow oranges in Canada ( I suppose you can indoors but those oranges ted to be very small). Canada No 1, means the honey has gone through a filter 80 mesh I believe and moisture is below 18.6%. Period. The word Canada has nothing to do with the country of origin. Do consumers know this? Some may, most do not. Is it misleading? I guess in some ways... but it is not a secret. Ultimately the consumer has to educate him or herself for this very reason. Is this a sore point with Canadian beekeepers? Yup.

Jean-Marc

P.S.- I will make a small effort to find an example of Canada No 1 orange juice.


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## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

Checked the Billy Bee Honey at the local Superstore today.

On the box containing the honey bear odf honey - "Canada's Favorite Honey"

On the label on the bear containers - "Canada No. 1 White" and "A Blend of Canadian and Argentine Honey" and "McCormick Canada, London Canada"


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

I sell in to the coop. The Coop is requiring CFIA registered facilities by all producers. 
For any of you who sell private, are packers insisting on a CFIA # when selling your honey? I'm told so by other producers. And if so is the honey coming into the country bought by these companies compliant to the same standards??


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## irwin harlton (Jan 7, 2005)

Anyone with any knowledge on the history of the US HONEY INDUSTRY will know what Chinese honey can do to an industry.Anyone who believes that the CFIA, or any other department of the Canadian gov't can prevent McCormick from marketing this product, will be sadly disappointed, it is already here and has passed go.McCormicks brings new meaning to Corporate integrity and the bottom line is profit here in Canada and the US with this product


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

If the packers are requiring CFIA certification from Canadian producers, why? If they bring in a product from China where there is no traceable standard on that honey... I dont get it?


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## Haraga (Sep 12, 2011)

It's the honey version of the wheat pool that is no longer. 

http://www.beemaid.com/files/AHPOperationandPolicyManual.pdf


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

BeeMaid does not apply in this because they do not blend foreign honey. They are certifying their producers under the CFIA framework , applying true source and marketing the honey as such. 

Im asking why is Billy Bee asking for CFIA # from producers when they blend it off with non traceable honey anyway? Its like taking the fine honey tin from the shelf, mixing it with the stuff that got spilled on the floor, and spreading it on your toast.


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

I am assuming they are asking for a CFIA# because it is required for interprovincial trade in honey:

http://www.inspection.gc.ca/food/ho...rade/overview/eng/1352740782118/1352740853690

Imported honey has different requirements:

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/C.R.C.,_c._287/page-11.html#h-17

We hold our own Canadian producers to a higher standard.


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## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

Billy Bee has uses.

This year at the Southern Spring Show our bee club had a booth. We used a jar of Billy Bee and a jar of homegrown honey and gave attendees a chance to taste test. It helps them understand the price difference. It also helped boost awareness of our club.


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## pleasantvalley (May 22, 2014)

zhiv9 said:


> I am assuming they are asking for a CFIA# because it is required for interprovincial trade in honey:
> 
> http://www.inspection.gc.ca/food/ho...rade/overview/eng/1352740782118/1352740853690
> 
> ...


This is the right answer here. Hasn't this always been the case? Both the US and Canada only inspect a tiny portion of our food imports, and considering how short staffed the CFIA is, they certainly aren't out checking other country's food on our soil or otherwise.
McCormick has always sold a blend of Canadian and Argentine honey. I can't say I'm happy about this development, but there will always be people who buy solely on price. You think all the Asian immigrants in this country consider imported Chinese product garbage? Some might (and I would), but certainly not all.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Chinese products garbage? Yes
Especially when the practice of filtering out pollutants and blend in sugar has been suspected by the exporters of the product.


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## irwin harlton (Jan 7, 2005)

We hold our own Canadian producers to a higher standard.

Very true. and what can we do about it.Write to your MP, the prime ministers office,Border Services at http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/contact/menu-eng.htmlServives,( if there's going to be an anti dumping duty on both Chinese and Argentina honey ,these people will do it)CFIA,Health Canada,the Competition Bureau ,CHC, and anyone else you can think of.

“the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world are the ones who do.”

― Steve Jobs 

I have had some very interesting ,unusual, people in high,influential places checking me out,in the last couple days ,they are probably thinking I am a nut case,......maybe I am


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Maybe I'm crazy but when people come into a country they are forced to go, first, through elaborate screening on one end then customs, immigration and possibly more screening on the other end. There is a small army of people employed to do this. Is it really asking too much for our government to take samples from each container of food (with the costs of testing to be borne by the importer) to ensure food safety? Why do we consider one more important than the other?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

http://cdn.intechopen.com/pdfs-wm/23467.pdf

Irwin here is some info on the NMR test that can and is being used in Europe to detect levels of sugar syrup in honey. Skim down to 4.2 in the document. 
I don't know how costly this is but apperantly it's extremely accurate. Recently (told to me by a guy in the know) honey in Europe was tested, failed and all pulled from the shelf.

All CFIA needs to do is test randomly to scare importers away from this suspect product.


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## JodieToadie (Dec 26, 2013)

I was skimming the CFIA website and this might be interesting. Apparently Maple Syrup Producers have more stroke than beekeepers in Canada. I think the BeeMaid members need to start lobbying. If we are held to a higher standard the labelling must be clear:


The three Canadian grade names beginning with the "Canada" prefix, as established in the MPR, are the following:
•Canada No. 1
•Canada No. 2
•Canada No. 3

When the above Canadian grades are being used on maple syrup, this maple syrup must be graded only:
•in a CFIA registered establishment under the MPR; or
•in any place, where it is graded by or on behalf of the operator of a CFIA registered maple syrup shipper establishment.

Only a grader (of a CFIA registered establishment under the MPR) may grade maple syrup. As an exception, the operator or an employee of a CFIA registered establishment may grade if it is under the supervision of a grader.

Note : Canada No. 3 Maple Syrup as described in the MPR is in violation of section 8.4.1 of the Quebec Food Regulations, that do not allow for a buddy taste in small container maple syrup.


Imported Maple Syrup 

The use of American grades on maple syrup sold in Canada is not permitted. Imported maple syrup must meet the (MPR) import requirements, using the above grade names, but with their prefixes changed from "Canada" to "Grade", as follows:
•Grade No. 1
•Grade No. 2
•Grade No. 3

The maple syrup container must bear a label marked with a declaration of the country of origin. Combining declarations of country of origin and grade is not permitted. For example: "Product of / Produit du Canada No. 1" is not permitted.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Why can maple syrup producers get Canada off the imported grading and not honey producers??


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## JodieToadie (Dec 26, 2013)

Exactly! If there is one thing that being a member of a provincial honey producer's association, and national honey producers association, and a member of BeeMaid should do it is giving us a voice.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

The removal of that one word is all we are asking for. Being a county of export, we need to tread lightly on issues of export labelling. What we demand domestically does not alway translate into what we want done internationally

Like the buying local thing. That's great but many folks 1000 miles away support our lovelyhood aswell


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## JodieToadie (Dec 26, 2013)

I have no desire to punish imports. Just make sure that false and misleading packaging are removed. I want identical labelling to Maple Syrup. That is perfectly acceptable to me.


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## irwin harlton (Jan 7, 2005)

"Why can maple syrup producers get Canada off the imported grading and not honey producers??"

Good question, I think it has to do with Canada being the largest world producer of Maple Syrup.When you control the market,and have historically kept inferior products off the shelf you can control the label


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## JodieToadie (Dec 26, 2013)

I sent a complaint to CFIA and here is the response:
Hello 

Thank you for your message.

Where imported honey is blended with Canadian honey and is graded under
the Honey Regulations, the container must be marked with the words "A
Blend of Canadian and (naming the source or sources) Honey" or "mélange
de miel canadien et de miel (naming the source or sources)" or "A blend
(naming the source or sources) Honey and Canadian Honey" or "mélange de
miel (naming the source or sources) et de miel canadien". The sources
must be named in descending order of their proportion [37(3), 52(1),
HR].

Section 37
(http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/C.R.C.,_c._287/page-9.html#docCont)
Section 52
(http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/C.R.C.,_c._287/page-12.html#docCont)

With respect to the grade designation for honey Canadian honey or
repackaged and graded Imported Honey can be labelled Canada No. 1.

A grade declaration on a product for which a grade standard is
prescribed cannot be used unless the honey establishment is registered
with the Canadian Food Inspection Agency (CFIA).

Complete details on labelling of honey is on our site at
http://www.inspection.gc.ca/food/la...cts/eng/1392907854578/1392907941975?chap=0#c7

If you suspect a food label or advertisement is misleading you can
report your concerns to the Canadian Food Inspection Agency's (CFIA)
Single Access Food Labelling Service in your province. You will find a
list of offices and contact information at
http://inspection.gc.ca/food/labelling/contacts/eng/1300275138875/1300275631949


Mary


Public Enquiries
Canadian Food Inspection Agency
http://www.inspection.gc.ca


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