# Maxant "9 frame" extractor?!



## Ben Brewcat

Allright... this Maxant 3100, is it really a radial AND a tang? Meaning you have to flip one third of the frames and extract the other side, after the other two-thirds are already done and gone? 

Doesn't this cause wasted time? Other 9-frame true radials are comparably priced. I get that they're American and all, and reportedly rock-star durable, but how does splitting an extractor run between tang and radial save time? Do you just reverse the tang frames and run side two with the next run of (fully) radially extracted frames?


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## MAXANT

I sent you an email with a detailed picture of the 3100 loaded as a 9 framer!


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## Ben Brewcat

Thanks, I got it. That did help picture how it works. I'm still scratching my head a little though... what's the advantage of having to flip over three of the frames to finish over a 9-frame true radial?


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## MAXANT

Its all personal preference. Some people prefer tangential extracting over radial as they feel it gets more honey out of the frame.
Its all about options!


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## Bee Gardener

Can you post the picture and info --I am trying to figure that out too. Thanks.


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## beevet

Referring to the Maxant 3100P, it seems that the motor is a high strung, non-continuous duty, hard working gear motor and may not have the longevity that one would expect from such a high-end extractor given the start up torque and duty cycles required for extracting. This motor is also used on larger commercial sewing machines and is designed for short periods of work rather than extended days of hard use (i.e. Hobart mixers). In the real world though, the end results are what matter. Does anyone have an opinion of this machine (as a whole) as to it's durability and longevity? If you just bought yours yesterday, you won't really be able to answer the question. Thanks!


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## NasalSponge

I hope you get some replies because I am looking to buy soon.


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## Brent Bean

I started to use the 3100P this season and like beevet mentioned I can’t rate the motor worm gear drive on longevity. However I ran mine 10 hours the first day I used it and the motor stayed rather cool. The worm gear got a little hot but nothing to be concerned about. I will see if this changes after an appropriate break in period. 
I spin six frames radial and flip the three tangential frames when I pull the six frames. For my small operation 20 to 30 hives the Maxant has cut my extraction time in half compared to the four frame Dadant I was using.
Other features I really like about the Maxant is the sloped bottom I don’t have to tip the extractor to get all the honey out like I do with the flat bottom Dadant. The hold down brackets allow an obstruction free hold down compared to the chain system of the Dadant. The removable two sided top covers allow easier frame removal. It is smaller in size to the Dadant but holds 150% more frames. Because of the triangular basket the loads seem to spin smoother It’s just a very sturdy well built machine and the only possible weak link would be the motor, that has yet to be determined. However my contact with the people at Maxant if this turns out to be a problem I would bet they stand by their product and would not be worried about a resolution.
It’s my opinion that the Maxant 3100P is a lot of bang for the buck.

NasalSponge give them a call you won’t be sorry!


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## beevet

I think you answered part of my question. An over worked motor gets hot and burns through brushes. If your saying that the parvalux motor stays cool, it either has a good cooling fan or it's very efficient.


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## fish_stix

Why on earth would you even consider that Maxant, with their good reputation, would put a bum motor on their equipment?


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## MAXANT

fish_stix said:


> Why on earth would you even consider that Maxant, with their good reputation, would put a bum motor on their equipment?


We have used Parvalux motors for over 20 years. If we ever have a problem with a motor, it gets sent back and the customer gets a new one.
The gearboxes will get warm, but this is normal. Its a tough little motor! :thumbsup:


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## Brent Bean

Beevet: to answer your question, yes the motor has cooling fins on both endbells and puts out a good stream of air. I just spent the last two days extracting honey, I spent six hours yesterday and eight today the motor only got a little warm. The worm gear got hot but not as hot as the first time I used the unit. 

Maxant: one suggestion for the gear box, consider using a synthetic like Mobil SHC100 or Amsoil brands the temperature range and lubratisity is superior to conventional greases. We switched to synthetic greases several years ago in the power plant where I work with surprising results.


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## beevet

I agree that multipurpose greases may not be optimal. Worm gear drives are inherently inefficient and heat is the byproduct of that inefficiency. Optimally, film strength is the best measure of a lubricants ability to separate load force surfaces. Maybe a specialty synthetic as Brent Bean describes would be a wiser choice. The major loading is on start up and not running, bearing friction and air resistance are the only loads at speed. Thoretically, there should be very little stress on the gears while running. I'm presuming that this is why the gears last so long. IMHO, nothing beats Maxant but as a scientist, I question everything.


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## bermybee

Changing the grease would be nice but um sure Maxant buys the motor (after doing their homework on the motor requirements/ gearing speed) and trans is filled with that grease and designed for the power from that specific Parvalux motor by Parvalux and has nothing to do with Maxant. I dont see why you would be concerned about the heat coming off the tans my Dadant's Jones Punchline motor/ trans on the 12 framer heated up also nothing to be concerned about. 

Look at it this way when BMW Audi or VW go out and buy a ZF Trans for there cars they don't tell ZF they are using the wrong trans fluid and swop it out for their own because they feel it's running too hot. Would you change the fluids in you $60,000 car because you felt it was running too hot from the manufacture even though the BMW tech/ owners manual said the car is suppose to run at that temp? Wouldn't that void your warranty also ?


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## sjbees

> Its all personal preference. Some people prefer tangential extracting
> over radial as they feel it gets more honey out of the frame.

The larger a radial the more efficient it is.

In the smaller sizes it is hard to get enough centrifugal force to clean the cells as efficiently as a tangential.

Spring honey may spin out fine with a radial (lighter honey, warmer temperatures) but fall honey can be more difficult (heavier/drier/partially granulated). A user having trouble extracting thick honey can turn the frames to use tangential instead.


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## beevet

bermybee said:


> I dont see why you would be concerned about the heat


Sorry you don't understand. I ask the question because I assume nothing. I already know how well built Maxant's equipment is. Dadant is good too. I've used both. I'm talking about the possibility of making something work a little better....perhaps something that's out of Maxant's control. I'm not "overly" concerned. It's just discussion.

The cars you mention are engineered by the SAME people who build them and will require about a quarter to a third of their value just in maint/repairs alone in their lifetime. Such is not the case with a good extractor.


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## Fuzzy

"Would you change the fluids in you $60,000 car because you felt it was running too hot from the manufacture "

I do and I did !!! Heat is wear. Haven't run standard lubricants in 25 years and have never had to rebuild an engine.


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## beevet

Fuzzy said:


> "Would you change the fluids in you $60,000 car because you felt it was running too hot from the manufacture "
> 
> I do and I did !!! Heat is wear.



Exactly! More heat = less efficiency = more wear


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## terri lynn

The more I try to figure out which extractor to get, the more my head hurts! And I need one - now. I have 15 hives presently. 

If I got a hand crank 9 frame unit, then wanted to motorize later, is it still as sound and seamless as getting the motorized from the start? I noticed the 20frame Maxant is $430 more than the 9 frame, but is that overkill for all but commercial producers? Also, how does shipping run? Any free shipping over a certain $ amount? Dadant is close enough I could pick it up, but frankly after the shipping problem (charged way over what was told on phone) and low quality supers I just got (5 totally unusable - then 2 more in replacement pkg), I'm hesitant to buy from them again. :no:

I noticed Brushy had a sale this month including extractors and extraction equipment....does Maxant ever have sales or deals? Or a package to bring the cost down for ordering several pieces? I want to get quality but am on budget, so searching for best bang for the buck. I was tempted to just get a small plastic extractor for this year and buy a good one for next year, but not too excited over that option. I would like it to not be TOO hard to transport, since I may have to extract in a different location this year.

Please help, I'm getting desperate!


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## terri lynn

terri lynn said:


> I noticed the 20frame Maxant is $430 more than the 9 frame, but is that overkill for all but commercial producers?


To clarify that remark, the extra $430 buys twice the capacity for 1/2 the price, so wondering if I should suck it up (and eat ramen noodles ) and splurge instead of making do. I've got it in savings but am just getting off 2 yr medical leave so watching it wherever I can.


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## Brent Bean

Terri lynn:

I run anywhere form 20-30 hives, the Maxant 3100P spins the frames faster than I can uncap them. The twenty frame extractor would spin more frames but I don’t think I would save any more time, because it would set idle while I uncapped and filled the extractor. With the nine frame unit, I am uncapping while a load is spinning. If you have more people helping get the biggest one you can afford. If you are a one person operation like myself the nine frame is good.


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## bermybee

BEEVET & FUZZY

I know about heat and efficiency and wear I understand that. My brother RACES 70cc two stroke scooter here that rev at 14,000+ RPM and go 72 MPH in a quarter mile, putting out about 28 HP. You do the math all that power out of a motor about twice the size of 2 large weed eater motor. the only oil he uses, THE BEST (AMS OIL IS TRASH PROVEN FACT ON THE TRACK) Elf. Now these motors cost about $6,000 each from Germany or Italy (amazing what they can do with a peace of metal) and they still only get 1 years out of them. 

So whats my point? I completely understand your need /want to make a product better the list of things that I pointed out about Maxant extractors a while back goes on and on. I guess it's like my argument over the baked on painted legs used on Maxant extractor, the fact that they don't use food grade grease in there bearings, the plastic bulk head gates they use or that fact they don't have a thermostat in there planes ext. 
Everything boils down to cost and how cheap MOST,NOT ALL Beekeepers are and/or can be. 
All I''m trying to point out is that the trans comes with the motor and chances are the motor will burn out way before the trans. So why would Maxant or Dadant invest in making the trans last longer, if when you end up having to get a motor/trans combo chances are it's going to be because of the motor and not the trans any way. So then you say well get a bigger/better motor now you need to change the trans as well. 

Then back to PRICE. WE all want the BEST but very few are willing/able to pay for it.


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## MAXANT

"Our" (not imported) honey gates arent plastic, they are nylon.
As for the thermostat in the UCP, I cant afford to add that option due to cost. This would drive that product out of price range, as it is already pricey.
We use sealed bearings where honey is not in contact with the bearing.
Any other bearing, like the SS ball bearing in the bottom of our 3100 and 1400 are packed with food grease.
Do we need to get into all of this again? :scratch:

As for Maxant having any "specials" terri lynn, give me a call. I will be back from EAS on Monday.


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## beevet

bermybee said:


> BEEVET & FUZZY
> The fact that they don't use food grade grease in there bearings, the plastic bulk head gates.


Is there actual data that proves that amsoil has caused engine failure or is this a group of good ole boys throwing out their opinions? If this were fact, Amsoil would be out of business. Opinions are what linger on and on, not always facts as is the case here.:no: This banter often contaminates an otherwise worthwhile discussion. Also, I own a Maxant plane and wouldn't touch anything else. Thermostat or not, if your uncapping technique is too slow, you will burn honey.


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## terri lynn

Thanks Brent Bean - that helps! Most of this thread is flying right over my head with the technical stuff, but I'm still getting enough to be helpful. 

Maxant, I'll call you Monday or Tuesday to quiz you on a few specifics. Meanwhile, have a great time at EAS!


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## Fuzzy

Bermybee, Beevet,

Please do not mis-quote me. I did not say anything about food grade grease or honey gates.

Thanks -- Fuzzy


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## bermybee

beevet said:


> Is there actual data that proves that amsoil has caused engine failure or is this a group of good ole boys throwing out their opinions? If this were fact, Amsoil would be out of business. Opinions are what linger on and on, not always facts as is the case here.:no: This banter often contaminates an otherwise worthwhile discussion. Also, I own a Maxant plane and wouldn't touch anything else. Thermostat or not, if your uncapping technique is too slow, you will burn honey.


Dont get me wrong your absolutely right about nothing beating the plane for every $$$ spent. I love the thing myself just bought one of the speed controls that Maxant said would regulate the temp depending on how well that works (If it works so good I can't understand why they don't try to market it with or have it as and option to the plane) I plan on get getting two more before going the Cowen route. You can't beat the speed of it or how it take off so little wax but when you go to put it down to get anther super of frames to decap or unload/load a 60 frame extractor:lookout:. i mean the on off switch is good and all but . I also pionted out they should continue the blade to the top in less of an angle so the could be maybe be used to clean the tops and bottom of frames. Like you I was only talking about improvements , thats all, take it or leave it. 

As for AMS oil when I was out in the US in school my friend swear by it, all I would use is Castrol sytec both drive VW Passats he had engine problem after problem, problem. Mind you we both would only use premium fuel he used Shell v power I used Hess "the cheap gas" now there are so many variables to that true. 
But down the trek they call it pit oil. My brother test (because he trust little that he hears down at the trek) his oil on weed eaters sounds crazy but it a cheap and effective way to see if two stroke oil works and how well (also extremely consistent if nothing else ).When I came back from school and was telling him about AMS oil my friend loves he showed me why they call it trash.After using premix store bought oil/ gas SHEll all this time he dump the rest out ran it untill it cut out. He mixed a batch of strait SHELL gas and AMS oil After using 1/4 a tank of ASM oil gas mix while still running he used a heat gun to it ran it till it cut out. He changed over to Motul SHELL mix the idle was much higher after adjusting, the response was better and the gun tells no lies. If you look at those AMS oil test results they are only compared to a certain weight of oil some time back and never to Elf or Motul. 

To keep this bee relevant test wear carried out cutting cane grass and vine at mostly full throttle in one of my larger bee yards


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## bermybee

Fuzzy said:


> Bermybee, Beevet,
> 
> Please do not mis-quote me. I did not say anything about food grade grease or honey gates.
> 
> Thanks -- Fuzzy


:no: YOUR RIGHT I never quoted you as saying that, that's all on BEEVET. I simply used your name because I felt it was relevant to your statement, as you did me.


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## bermybee

MAXANT said:


> "Our" (not imported) honey gates arent plastic, they are nylon.
> As for the thermostat in the UCP, I cant afford to add that option due to cost. This would drive that product out of price range, as it is already pricey.
> We use sealed bearings where honey is not in contact with the bearing.
> Any other bearing, like the SS ball bearing in the bottom of our 3100 and 1400 are packed with food grease.
> Do we need to get into all of this again? :scratch:


:no:Nope Not at all:thumbsup:
Nylon is a type of thermo""plastic"" is it not?:scratch:


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## beevet

bermybee said:


> Nylon is a type of thermo""plastic"" is it not?:scratch:


Good question. "Thermoplastic" simply means it will melt when heated and it is "plastic" because it will bend before it breaks. Nylon is not the same plastic as other common polymers such as polystyrene, PVC or other non-metallic/moldables. There is a lot of science behind what nylon is and why it's so strong but suffice it to say it is way more than adequate for a honey gate. I haven't had any problems with mine. You know about engines, what are most cam chain tensioners made out of? Nylon.


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## bermybee

beevet said:


> Good question. "Thermoplastic" simply means it will melt when heated and it is "plastic" because it will bend before it breaks. Nylon is not the same plastic as other common polymers such as polystyrene, PVC or other non-metallic/moldables. There is a lot of science behind what nylon is and why it's so strong but suffice it to say it is way more than adequate for a honey gate. I haven't had any problems with mine. You know about engines, what are most cam chain tensioners made out of? Nylon.


Very true, and I understand that it is way better then a normal thermoplastic, but when you look it up on wiki (not the best source, but the fastest) it classifies as a synthetic plastic more or less. A plastic DuPont Patented, sort of a super plastic more or less? Or is this wrong? 
Weather you drive a KIA or a Bugatti it's still a car, type thing. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nylon

The gates that Maxant use are way stronger then my 12 frame Dadant one I'm sure. All you have to do is look at it and see but the bulk head fiting on the back can't compare to the Dadant SS coupling "OVERKILL" AS MAXANT PUT IT. Because now if my cheap plastic gate broke i could put w/e gate i want on it or w/e else for that matter .


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## beevet

bermybee said:


> A plastic DuPont Patented, sort of a super plastic more or less? Or is this wrong? Weather you drive a KIA or a Bugatti it's still a car, type thing. QUOTE]
> 
> Sort of...it's like saying food is food when comparing McDonalds and a Michelin starred resturaunt. They both serve food but it's not the same. I guess nylon really is a "super plastic" because so many things separate it from other types. There really is a vast diffrence in nylon vs. other plastics in strength. It's like comparing balsa wood to oak. I also remember that the high pressure seat in a scuba regulator is nylon and is about 4mm across and must withstand 3000psi over 4mm which equates to about 20 times that pressure. Does this have anything to do with honey gates? Nope. It's just another example of material strength. 3000psi on a honey gate? It would blow off the side on my extractor into the next county. I think I'd like to be there for that one.opcorn:


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## NasalSponge

Well.....I ordered my 3100!!!! :applause: I ordered the hand crank with the goal of getting the motor kit for it next year....in the mean time I used the $300 I saved by going motor-less to purchase all the other harvest stuff I needed. I can't wait for it to get here!!


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## beevet

It's been said that you can't do good work with poor tools. Rest assured that you bought the top. You'll love it's versatility and solid build. I love mine and the conical bottom keeps the honey off the bottom bearing.


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## NasalSponge

Being a mechanic by trade I know just what you mean!! Folks ask me all the time about what tools to purchase. I have always told them for home use....craftsman. For pro use Snap-on!


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## beevet

NasalSponge said:


> for home use....craftsman. For pro use Snap-on!


 Yep. You got the best of both worlds there.

Well, I just got in from putting 5 supers through the 3100P, a few buckets of nice honey waiting for bottling. Did yours get delivered yet?? No? Oh, that's too bad.:lpf: 


Sorry, couldn't resist.


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## paulnewbee1

I have the 20 and I also looked a the 9 frame spent the extra to get a bigger machine. the 1400Hd is the one I got, Jake at Maxant responds each time I have a question,
I used it last week and did 75 frames the only bad thing is that I don't have a uncapping machine maybe it I get 15 more of so hives next year, the hand cutting takes lots of time. so any used ones that work? let me know. auto capping $$$4 more then the extractor.I would spend the extra you will be more satisfied. with the 20 frame. 
Paul


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## NasalSponge

> Did yours get delivered yet?? No? Oh, that's too bad.


Not that funny!! The wait is killing me!! inch:


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## MAXANT

NasalSponge said:


> Not that funny!! The wait is killing me!! inch:


We at Maxant, love to keep our customers in suspense.........:shhhh: opcorn: 
j/k!


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## beevet

NasalSponge said:


> The wait is killing me!! inch:


The solution is simple. Load up your full supers, head on out to Ohio and I'll drink mead while you extract.opcorn:


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## terri lynn

MAXANT said:


> We at Maxant, love to keep our customers in suspense.........:shhhh: opcorn:
> j/k!


Kinda like a good murder mystery. Free entertainment along with your extractor!


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## NasalSponge

Well...she showed up today, right when I had to leave for work....I so want head to the house and play!!:banana:


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## beevet

NasalSponge said:


> I so want head to the house and play!!:banana:


Ever hear of a sick day??:doh:


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## dni

*Re: detailed picture of the Maxant 3100 loaded as a 9 framer*



MAXANT said:


> I sent you an email with a detailed picture of the 3100 loaded as a 9 framer!


can you send that to me, too?

am in the market for a motorized 9 and am trying to weigh the differences...

thanks


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## beevet

Any more than a handful of hives, definitely go for the 9. It's worth the few extra $$. My Maxant took a beating this summer and it ran like a champ (yes, we had a really good honey crop this year).


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## Michael Crawford

I am here in suspense as a prospective client waiting to hear from someone at Maxant to provide the cost for this extactor to be shipped to Miami Florida. Also the shipping package dimensions and weight. Please note that the legs won't be needed except for the bolt down lugs.


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## TalonRedding

I purchased a 3100M last fall and since then I have extracted 1,000 lbs+. Extracting 6 frames radially works fine and extracting 3 frames tangentially works fine. However, extracting all 9 frames simultaneously does not work very well. I was a bit disappointed with the outcome. It takes longer to extract 9 frames at once than it does to extract 9 frames three at a time tangentially. What is happening with me is that instead of honey being slung on the extractor wall, it is being slung on the other frames because everything is so crammed and compact. I think if the drum were a bit larger, there would be no issue. That is my biggest complaint by far and as a result, instead of a 9 frame extractor, I have either a 3 frame extractor (tangential) or 6 frame extractor (radial). I will say though, that it is well built and will last a lifetime, maybe longer, if taken care of. Maxant has their construction down pat. I just wish the drum was larger so that I could actually extract 9 frames at once in an efficient manner. Would I purchase from them again? Yes, but it would be a larger extractor next time.


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## Charlestonbee

I am also debating between 9 frame or larger radial. I don't think I'll have more than 25 production hives in which case the 9 frame would be fine. If I decide I can handle more bee work and try to keep 50 production hives would the 9 framer still work?


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## DirtyLittleSecret

Charlestonbee said:


> I am also debating between 9 frame or larger radial. I don't think I'll have more than 25 production hives in which case the 9 frame would be fine. If I decide I can handle more bee work and try to keep 50 production hives would the 9 framer still work?


The 1400P (20 frame) would be much more appropriate for that many or more.


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## PeterP

I've had a 3100p for 5 years. I have about 10 production hives and pull honey 3-4 times a year. Anywhere from 8-16 medium supers a pull. I do about 1,000 pounds total a year.

I started using it in 9 frame mode then went to 6 frames radial. Now I use it in 3 frame tangental. It takes less time. It matches up to my 9 frame boxes (3 spins a box). I decap with a fork ( less wax and honey (money?) ends up in the decapping tub) and by the time I decap 2 frames the spin is ready to be flipped. By the time I finish decapping the third frame the spinning is done. 

Dry honey (15%) takes too long to spin out in radial when the drum is as small as the 3100p. I need the smaller drum extractor because I lug the 3100P in and out of the basement every year. If I had a permenant extractor room I would go for an extractor with a larger drum to get the needed cetrifical force in radial mode.

Regards Peter


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## Charlestonbee

Total time how long is it taking you to extract say 10 supers and have the honey in buckets. I may have to pay the $1300 for a 20 frame radial before next year. Until then I'm gonna go extract about 10 supers with a two frame hand crank the next two days.


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## PeterP

Yesterday I did 6 supers in about 4-5 hours. I use 2 buckets with strainers (100 micron nylon mesh). When one strainer fills up I swap in the other. 

I also like the fact the repetitive motions of forking and transfering frames etc are broken into smaller work efforts when I do 3 frames a spin. My body gets a change in position so it is not as strenuous. ( I'm 64) The bees are fun the honey is work. 

Regards Peter


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