# Building one's own equipment



## bigeddie (Feb 19, 2008)

They are easy to build but can be time consuming. Get measurements right, double check and get square. I make all my own cause I have more time than money. The plans on the site are fine.


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## bigbearomaha (Sep 3, 2009)

A box is a box is a box.

As long as the dimensions accommodate use of standardized frames and have the interior dimensions, you shouldn't worry too much.

Each person can determine for themselves what type of wood to use, paint or weather proof coating, type of joint to use (finger, butt, rabbet, etc...) 

Your geography will tell you more what might be better than someone from another area.

if you are like most beekeepers, you will want to keep the bees health first and foremost in consideration and take that into your materials and plans as you go. ( for example, the use of some glues or woods made with certain glues might prove a health hazard for bees, regardless of geography, bee aware of those types of things) 

I like to test my boxes I build on my kids. if the box survives a week of being used as a car, step-ladder, bench, spaceship, and whatever else their imaginations come up with, I figure it is tough enough to be used on a hive and bumped around a bit. Next step is to weather proof it.

Just my two cent

Big Bear


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## xbted (Jan 9, 2010)

I don't have kids, but I could see what kind of damage my cats could inflict upon them.


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## brac (Sep 30, 2009)

I build all my own boxes, and buy cheap lumber whenever I can. Frames are another story, I built a small batch of frames, so I know I can, but frames seem better bought.


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## NDnewbeek (Jul 4, 2008)

Depends also what kind of equipment you have at your disposal. I have a table saw, Mitre saw, air compressor w/ brad nailer, stapler, finish nailer, etc. - so building is a piece of cake for me.

I build my own boxes, screened bottom boards (see Ross's website, "www.myoldtools.com/Bees"), telescoping covers, hive stands, and inner covers. About all I don't build myself are the frames. I don't know that it is any less expensive to build them, but I enjoy the carpentry almost as much as the bees. 

Now, if all you have is a handsaw and a hammer, I would stick with buying.


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## jhs494 (May 6, 2009)

I have built some and bought some. 
There is the satisfaction of knowing you have done them yourself.
Be sure and check out the prices on buying them first. If you are planning on doing ten or more you can get price breaks when you order.
With wood prices like there are sometimes it is cheaper to buy them. 
You also must consider how much time you have before you may need them. 

My son and I have done his complete just so he can say that he did them himself, and this gave him a little woodshop time.
Good luck whatever way you decide to go.


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## PeeVee (Dec 10, 2009)

I bought my first hive. Made the second plus frames,screened bottom, etc.

This winter I'm building more whenever I can get in the shop. Currently making frames from recycled redwood. 

But, I have the tools and enjoy the wood crafting hobby. The beekeeping gives me a reason to be in an unheated shop this time of year. Plus doing something to keep my mind occupied when I can't be out there "mollesting" the bees


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

A few years ago, a friend of mine, a commercial beekeeper who was getting out of beekeeping due to health reasons, gave me a pallet of unassembled medium 10-frame supers (cut for finger-jointed corners). They had been stored outdoors and most of the end pieces had been damaged beyond repair, while most of the sides were as good as new.

It is now several years later and I still have a few hundred supers yet to be assembled. Since I predominantly use 8-frame rather than 10-frame, the missing end pieces, in some ways, made it easier to assemble these as 8-frame supers.

I've experimented and used several different cuts to complete groups of supers. Most challenging was cutting replacement end pieces with matching fingers. Presently I favor trimming the fingers, which are 3/4" long, by half, so they are only 3/8" long, then I make replacement end pieces that are the width I chose for my 8-frame supers (13-3/4" outside width), I cut three 3/8" deep rabbet's in these end pieces, one on each side to match with the side pieces and one across the inside top for the frame rests. When these are assembled there are small gaps where the end piece fingers would normally be, but there are no actual openings. These gaps could be sealed up in several different ways, but I plan to leave them open to see how they do.

I have also made some boxes from scratch, where I still favor the use of end pieces with three rabbets, because they are very easy to produce. Taking much less time than some other joints used to produce box corners. I have also been thinking of trying some other methods of creating box corners, one I have heard of is a router bit cutter that cuts a locking miter edge that joins the box edges without any end grain exposure either outside or inside.

I've also been adding cleats to the ends of all my supers, I add them to reinforce the frame-rest rabbet and to provide convenient carrying handles.


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## Cyrus Brewster (Aug 26, 2009)

Anybody using blind dovetails for the corner joint. I've build a lot of boxs with this joint and have to say they go together solid as a rock (with glue and staples). It so much faster that finger joints and I believe stronger than rabbited joints -- lots of gluing surface. I takes a little trial and error with scraps to set up the jig, but once set up it's an assembly line. I bught a jig from Rocklers for around $100. Amortised over a lot of hive bodies it's a good investment in my opinion.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

bernanos,
That does sound interesting. I have all the gear, except a dovetail guide/jig to make that happen. Eventually I will likely give that a try too.


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## PeeVee (Dec 10, 2009)

-I have also been thinking of trying some other methods of creating box corners, one I have heard of is a router bit cutter that cuts a locking miter edge that joins the box edges without any end grain exposure either outside or inside. -

Joseph,

The lock miter is what I use. Very stable joint. Lots of glue surface. No end grain. Self squaring.

Once the setup is done, cutting the joints goes pretty fast.

Draw backs are: you need a router that is variable speed and a sturdy router table. I'm using the 1/2" shank on a bit that is about 2 1/4" diameter to cut the joint in 7/8" pine.


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## Cyrus Brewster (Aug 26, 2009)

I had thought of using the lock miter joint, but have worries about joining end-grain with this method. It works well when joining two boards long grain (side) to long grain, but with joining end grain I fear the main thing holding the joint would be the glue. With the half-blind dovetail there's the "wedge" effect which draws the joing together (and also evens out some warpage). There is some end grain showing, but only about a quarter inch. If properly made the joint also tends to be self-squaring.


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## Alex Cantacuzene (May 29, 2003)

Hello Bernanos et al. The building of your own equipment gives a lot of satisfaction in addition to keeping the bees. The building of your own equipment gives you the chance to experiment with different ideas. And so it is with the corner joints for the boxes. We have finger joint , blind dovetail and Miter Lock boxes. All of them do well, although the oldest ones, the ones with finger joints show their age and some will have to be replaced. The blind dovetails are doing well and have the advantage that with a good jig you rout two ends at one time (just make sure the pieces are square in the jig!). The Miter Lock joints are the most satisfying as they have lots of glue space (I use no nails or screws), they are almost self-squaring and I can cut the sides to the length and width of the boxes right away, no trimming or ripping to size. Miter Lock joints are great also for 3/4" plywood (Some was given to me and so I had to use it). but you have to have patience with the initial set-up. By the way, on plywood I use cleats so there will be no delaminaton of the plywood. I am also becoming convinced that cleats are better, especially in cold climates as there is no thinning of the material. Have you seen any of the heat sensing photos? Oh well, all the above is only my opinion and we all come to this hobby or business with different backgrounds, experiences and motivations. I am retired, have time and interest and want to have fun. Hope the same for you, take care.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

xbted said:


> I was wondering about how difficult building your own Langstroth hives is?


 
The table saw will determine how satisfied you are with the results...

I bought a cheap saw, which would be fine if not for the ultra-cheap miter gauge. I cut the pieces to make 10 or so hive-top feeders and some stands and the cuts looked real nice... until I glued, and assembled the first one. 

If you don't have access to a nice saw, and you buy a cheaper one I would suggest that you build a "crosscut sled"

Here is a video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLFDmRp9XQY

The next thing I make will be a "sled"

Oh... cheap dado blades are cheap! but that's why we buy them.


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## BoBn (Jul 7, 2008)

xbted said:


> I really want to know is are there any specific details about building these boxes that I should really pay careful attention to?


The interior end-to-end dimensions, the height of the boxes, and the depth of the frame rest rabbit should to be cut accurate within a 1/16" inch. 

I like to have slightly less than 3/8" space between the tops of the frames and the top of the box and have the bottom of the frames flush with the bottoms of the boxes. Paint and propolis on the top and bottom edges of the boxes will add a bit of space too.

I have seen some new commercial boxes with almost 1/2" spacing between bottom and tops of the frames. The bees used so much brace comb that it was almost impossible to pry out a frame without prying it apart.


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## PeeVee (Dec 10, 2009)

bernanos,
Even with the lock miter I use 1/4" x 1 1/4" crown staples. and titebond II glue. I made a horendous mistake (what is it? measure once cut twice?) and had to saw the joint apart. There was no way to disassemble without destroying the whole box. Fortunately I was able to recut the sides to make ends!


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## PeeVee (Dec 10, 2009)

Alex,
I agree with you about the handholds. On the boxes I make I use cleats on the end sides. What is the sense of making boxes 7/8" thick only to cut a thin spot on two if not four sides? Besides the cleats are readily available from scrap.


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## peacekeeperapiaries (Jun 23, 2009)

If you have a little bit of the woodworking gene in you, building your own boxes is not difficult. We build all of our boxes, bottoms, and lids. We buy our frames. Glue everything and use staples, nails, or brads, best in my opinion is staples.


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## bennybee (Jul 10, 2008)

bernanos said:


> Anybody using blind dovetails for the corner joint. I've build a lot of boxs with this joint and have to say they go together solid as a rock (with glue and staples). It so much faster that finger joints and I believe stronger than rabbited joints -- lots of gluing surface. I takes a little trial and error with scraps to set up the jig, but once set up it's an assembly line. I bught a jig from Rocklers for around $100. Amortised over a lot of hive bodies it's a good investment in my opinion.


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## bennybee (Jul 10, 2008)

tell me more about this jig. I get the Rockler catalog and I just threw it away last week. I looked on the internet and found a bunch of jigs. What brand is it? I think the cheapest is $149 ( prices go up ). I make hundreds of boxes for our club and sell them. How does the joint work with warped lumber. All 1 x 12's are warped. Does it come with bits or is that extra. I've been doing box joints for 25 years. What a pain! I would be interested in hearing from you. 

Thanks,
Bennybee


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## Cyrus Brewster (Aug 26, 2009)

Bennybee,

The one I got from Rockler is now $149 (go here:http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=17367&filter=dovetailjigs). I got it on sale before Christmas. By the way, the vac attachment works great. I'd shop around. There are lots of brands and you may be able to get one a lot cheaper. It will draw a slightly cupped board together -- haven't tried it on badly warped boards. When the board is clamped in the jig the cup is taken out of the board so the dovetails are cut as if it were straight. When released the cup returns. When fit together it will correct things. Again, I don't think it will correct any badly warped boards.

Hope this helps.


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## Ishi (Sep 27, 2005)

Score the inside of the cupped boards with a saw blade about ¼ the thickness if the boards. Use as many cuts as you think you will need. When you assemble the boxes the wood will flex in and relive the stress so it will not cup back out. Over time the dovetail joint will pull out and the cup will return if you do not relive the inside.


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## sarge74 (Jan 24, 2010)

I'm having a tough time finding a decent supplier for 1x12's I went to menards yesterday and out of about 40 boards (med. grade) that they had in the rack only 5 were suitable for building supers. The rest were extremely warped or cracked. To use their top quality boards would be over $20.00 per super. Does anyone glue 1x6's to use for deep supers, or is there a problem with this idea. Any suggestions appreciated.

Sarge74


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

sarge, funny you should ask... I started a thread "making boards wider", check it out. People are joining boards. I was contemplating a biscuit joiner to align the boards when I came across a "wolfcraft" dowelling jig on the Rockler website, on sale a couple of weeks ago for about $20 down from $40. It works very well. If I remember correctly Ross said, and I'll readily stand to be corrected, that the dowels and biscuits don't add much to the joint strength. I defer to Ross - his website and posts show his skills and craftsmanship. What I like about the dowels, and it is probably the same for biscuits, is that they align the boards and prevent them slipping as they are being clamped. I've got boards in my bedroom clamped and drying as I type. Adrian.


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## Scrapfe (Jul 25, 2008)

sarge74 said:


> ...their top quality boards would be over $20.00 per super...


I don't know where you are in Indiana but I stopped at a large country sawmill south of Seymour, Indiana (close to Tampico or Grassy) shortly before Christmas and they had a large inventory of pine and popular lumber for about .50-.55 cents per board foot, (144 sq.inch). In other words, a 10 foot 1”x12” plank cost $5.00 to $5.50 and an 1”x 8” -10 foot long board cost about $3.50.. Bee advised this is for green or air dried un-planed lumber. The downside; you may need to dry and surface your boards. A couple of Summer months in a garage will do nicely as long as you stack and space your lumber well.

Bee careful, some mills cut a little over an inch thick (oh say 1 & 1/8) and charge for 1 ½ or 2 inch thick lumber, an increase in cost of 50 to 100%. Remember, knowledge is power. If you buy enough, you may even get the mill to custom cut your lumber. This saw mill (and others) had large forklift baskets full of short boards (fire wood) for $25.00.

As long as half of the "Shorts" are at least 17 or so inches long and the other half is over 20 to say 22 inches, go for it, you'll save yourself a heap of heavy lifting. Someone on Beesource admitted to only planning one side of their boards. Remember, Mother Nature never built a hollow tree with smooth splinter free insides.


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## sarge74 (Jan 24, 2010)

Thanks Adrian..It's true that the biscuits don't add a lot to the joint strength but they do make it much easier to properly align boards. I have a biscuit joiner so why not use it, but for anyone who doesn't have one, don't run out and get one just to build boxes. You can do just as good a job aligning the boards with a few extra clamps, and as long as you use a good exterior wood glue the joints will hold fine. I have a 35 year old coffee table that I built in high school the boards were joined with simple wood glue, no dowels or biscuits and it is still holding just fine.

Scrapfe..I don't have any mills around me close, but the idea of purchasing rough lumber is a good idea, as long as you have a planer and joiner, which I do. I may have to make a few phone calls, hook up the trailer and make a road trip.

Thanks guys
sarge74


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## fat/beeman (Aug 23, 2002)

if your just building a few rabbit joints might be ok but dove tail hum have to pass on that. as far as being stronger I doubt it. as far as lasting if you get 5-6 yrs out of a box you got your money out of it.personally I got rabbited ones have lasted over 25 yrs. just handle with little care.
Don


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## bennybee (Jul 10, 2008)

brac said:


> I build all my own boxes, and buy cheap lumber whenever I can. Frames are another story, I built a small batch of frames, so I know I can, but frames seem better bought.


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## bennybee (Jul 10, 2008)

I bought 500 top bars for $33 a hundred. those are the pain to make with about 6 operations. The end and bottom bars are a breeze. I figure I can make a frame for about 38 to 40 cents. That's a savings that is worth it for me since I'm not working and have a lot of time on my hands. Ive made about 1500 making the top bar too and it wasn't worth my time.


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

I love making my own stuff. I never save a lot of money but it's nice to do and rewarding as well. I finger joint the boxes with a jig and cut rabbets on the table saw. Same with the hand holds. Last year I made a couple dozen medium boxes, and a half dozen inner covers, top covers and screened bottom boards. This year I made sieves and migratory lids. A few years ago I made a bunch of hive stands...singles and doubles. Most of the work is the setup and thinking through the production so that you can do a series of certain cuts and then setup for a series of different cuts. I glue, staple, prime and paint all my woodenware and end grain has never been an issue. I rotate boxes frequently and re-paint as needed. I like that part of beekeeping as well.


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