# New to Forum



## Mike Henderson (Mar 19, 2015)

I'm just getting started in beekeeping but my hobby is woodworking. I was contacted by a beekeeper recently who asked me to build her a top bar hive. She and I worked on the details and came up with a design that I executed. I documented the build process here.

Part of the deal with her was that she'd get me a swarm to put into my Langstroth hive - which I also built. She delivered the swarm a few days ago so I now have to take care of it. I have all the equipment and have done a lot of reading. I have some background - my dad kept bees when I was a child (about 10) so I know a bit about it but beekeeping has changed a lot since then - lots more problems.

Anyway, just wanted to introduce myself.

Mike


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## cwood6_10 (Apr 17, 2012)

Welcome


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## Guadamo (Mar 13, 2015)

Nice....


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## BeeMoose (Oct 19, 2013)

Hi Mike, welcome to Beesource. Good luck on your new "hobby".


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## richr58 (Jul 23, 2014)

Welcome Mike, have fun, these are great folks with lots of info.

Get ready to be bitten by the " I don't have enough hives yet bug " 

3rd yr 3 warre 1 top bar built for this year


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## Mike Henderson (Mar 19, 2015)

Thanks, everyone, for the welcome. Does anyone have any comments about the design of the top frame hive I built? Would you change anything? See any weak points in the design Janet and I developed? Any suggestions/changes for future builds?

I think the interesting thing about the design is that it allows the use of traditional Langstroth supers with excluders so that the honey you gather is just honey, and you don't force the bees to draw a lot of new comb after harvesting.

I put a picture below but to see the details of the design, you'd need to look on my web site here.

Mike


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## dpressley (May 12, 2014)

Hi Mike, I'm new here myself and new at this. I've got a TBH from Christy Hemenway with bees in it and 16 bars of drawn comb. I'm eager to hear how your design works w/ the supers and the gaps between the bars. The bees I have now would make a mess in that with the gaps as they adhere strictly to "bee space" for comb drawing. A beautiful job, though!


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## Mike Henderson (Mar 19, 2015)

dpressley said:


> Hi Mike, I'm new here myself and new at this. I've got a TBH from Christy Hemenway with bees in it and 16 bars of drawn comb. I'm eager to hear how your design works w/ the supers and the gaps between the bars. The bees I have now would make a mess in that with the gaps as they adhere strictly to "bee space" for comb drawing. A beautiful job, though!


The space between the top bars is 3/8" which is the same space as between Langstroth frames. Also, before you put an excluder and super on the hive, the top would be bump against the top bar frames. As long as the bees draw the comb on the top bar frames, that space should be open, just like a Langstroth hive. At least that my theory.

Mike

[I took the dimensions for the top bar frames from Langstroth frames - length, width and space between frames.]


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## dpressley (May 12, 2014)

Gotcha, Mike. I'll be watching for reports to see how they like it. I am all for new ideas and love to learn. Lucky for me these bees are more than willing teachers!


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## shannonswyatt (May 7, 2012)

Dang! Box joints on a TBH! I don't think I have seen that before, I wish I could make those! I think you should reduce the height of the entrances, I can't tell, but they seem to be a bit tall. They don't need a whole lot. And I would probably just use the one on the end, not the one on the side. I use a side entrance, but it is towards the front or back. 

It seems more like an angled long hive than a top bar hive to me though. I like a 30 degree angle (120 overall) but others use less than 30. Supposedly you get less attached comb at 30 degrees or more. They eventually will put in attachments though.


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## GaryG74 (Apr 9, 2014)

Welcome to BeeSource Mike! Nice Top Bar Hive! Building various pieces of equipment is almost as much fun as keeping bees> I make everything but the frames but the skill level is not like yours. The finger joints are outstanding!


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## Mike Henderson (Mar 19, 2015)

shannonswyatt said:


> Dang! Box joints on a TBH! I don't think I have seen that before, I wish I could make those! I think you should reduce the height of the entrances, I can't tell, but they seem to be a bit tall. They don't need a whole lot. And I would probably just use the one on the end, not the one on the side. I use a side entrance, but it is towards the front or back.
> 
> It seems more like an angled long hive than a top bar hive to me though. I like a 30 degree angle (120 overall) but others use less than 30. Supposedly you get less attached comb at 30 degrees or more. They eventually will put in attachments though.


Thanks for the information. When you say a 30 degree side, are you saying that the side will make a 30 degree angle with the bottom? That would give a 120 degree angle between the two sides. But that seems like a very flat hive. All the pictures I've seen of TBHs have sides that are at a greater angle than 30 degrees to the bottom. In fact, it appears that many are built with a 30 degree angle to the vertical, which would give a 60 degree angle between the two sides.

I was constrained by the opening at the top, since we wanted to be able to put a Langstroth super on the hive - the distance between the bottom of the rabbets on the two sides had to be 18 3/8 inches. With a side that was 30 degrees to the vertical (60 degrees to the bottom), and 12 inch sides, the bottom of the hive would have been pretty narrow. So I went with 22.5 degrees to the vertical, 67.5 degrees to the bottom, to get a wider bottom.

The joinery on the end of the hive is half blind dovetails. Box joints (also known as finger joints) are a bit different.

The openings are 1 inch high and 5 inches wide. I compared this to the opening on a standard Langstroth hive bottom which is about the same height but goes completely across the front of the hive. I made three openings on the hive to give Janet a choice of which one to use. I provided her with plugs for the openings so that she can plug up two of the openings and only use one.

The reason we kind of decided to use the opening on the side and not one of the openings on the ends is that the side opening gives the bees the shortest path to anyplace in the hive. If an end opening is used, the been has to travel quite a ways to get to the other end of the hive. I don't know if that makes any difference, however.

Mike


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## treeWinder (May 3, 2013)

Mike Henderson said:


> The reason we kind of decided to use the opening on the side and not one of the openings on the ends is that the side opening gives the bees the shortest path to anyplace in the hive. If an end opening is used, the been has to travel quite a ways to get to the other end of the hive. I don't know if that makes any difference, however.
> 
> Mike


Good build, but bad place for the side entrance, you'll split the hive that way, if the queen is to one side and then gets honey bound she won't get to other side. If the people you built for use that, I expect frequent swarming and disappointment.


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## Mike Henderson (Mar 19, 2015)

treeWinder said:


> Good build, but bad place for the side entrance, you'll split the hive that way, if the queen is to one side and then gets honey bound she won't get to other side. If the people you built for use that, I expect frequent swarming and disappointment.


Thanks for that advice. I never thought of that. But why couldn't that happen with an end entry? Seems that the same situation could happen under those conditions. Why would the location of the entry change whether the queen got honey bound?

Mike


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## shannonswyatt (May 7, 2012)

Yes, 120 degree total angle. Kind of like the angle of a honey comb. So one hive upside down on another would be a hexagon. 

Either way, the joints look awesome, My ends are just butted up to a piece of wood, and I use a few screws, plus nails and glue to hold them on.

The opening on a bottom of a lang should be 3/4 inch, but I leave most of mine reduced to 3/8 by 4 inches year round, smaller for some in the winter. Doesn't slow them down. I used to like them bigger, but I noticed that most natural hives have tiny entrances, and some of those hives are huge.


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## treeWinder (May 3, 2013)

Mike Henderson said:


> Thanks for that advice. I never thought of that. But why couldn't that happen with an end entry? Seems that the same situation could happen under those conditions. Why would the location of the entry change whether the queen got honey bound?
> 
> Mike


Mike,
Nice to have you in TBH world especially nice that your making your own equipment as I also make them. I run between 4-6 TBHs. I use them mostly for brood, queens, and comb building.
When I used the term honey bound, I should have said; an artificial barrier to the queen having complete control to move where she wants to.

Example most TBH have either end entrances or side entrances that are near the end. Reason for this is that comb will not get drawn out completely near the entrance. Same reason we use a spacer bar on a front entrance TBH before placing the 1st bar for comb. My opinion is if you use that side entrance as shown your likely creating an issue for yourself that you did not intend to. 

I am into my TBHs every week unless some reason why I should not, this allows me to move frame of honey to the back, or stagger, manipulate, or add new bars. Avoiding a honey barrier.

Either way, good luck and welcome in.


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## Rairdog (Jun 21, 2014)

Very nice looking hive. I have been looking for a TBH with supers for my next build. The dovetails are nice but I think it's overkill for a TB. I can see the need for them on Langs since they could become distorted when moving around. Everything is somewhat locked together with a TB. The weak point seems to be the sidewalls bowing out. I just used glue and screws to save time.

I used primed rough cut spruce. It seems more stable since it has to be dried before priming. The pine around here just warps way to much and rots too quick. I replace a lot of exterior trim for my business so I have a sour taste for young growth pine. Especially when you get wider than a 1x6. I would also prefer round holes for entrances since they are easier to plug up if you need options down the road. I would look at some ways to streamline the build a little faster. They are exposed to the elements and the more little pieces, joint's, rabbiting etc. the more some parts could warp and fail. Once again....beautiful job.


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