# Coffee grounds drive bees nuts. Is it good for them?



## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Sounds wild A..... I'll give it a try. I am puzzeled at what they get out of it. Maybe a caffeine buzz??


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Are they rolling in it? My guess is they are wanting pollen and are willing to settle for any dust they can find.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

I agree with Mike, he know's most everything









This behavior is also seen with sawdust. I first saw this 7 years ago in the early spring. I had a pile of sawdust in the backyard from my table saw and the bees were rolling around in it in a frenzy. Early pollen substitute.

- Barry


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I HAVE wondered if maybe rolling in dust (especially dust of no nutritive value) has to do with getting rid of varroa mites or even Tracheal mites. But you often see them gather the grain dust, saw dust etc.


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## dandelion (Apr 10, 2003)

They don't just roll on the coffee. Even though it's hard to tell what they are doing it, they are not packing it into balls on their legs. They seem to eat it. And they surely take it away, at least the very fine powder like coffee. They only leave the grounds that look more like sand than powder. 
I did not squish a bee to see if they carry it in their guts, but where else would they carry it...
I did not notice either coffee trails in the entrance of the hives, as you see pollen when they carry it in their legs.
And finally I did not open the hives to see if I can figure out if they are regurgitating it somewhere. It's too early here to mess with my hives.
Alejandro


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## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

Is the coffee by chance a brand of coffee that
includes chicory in the ingredients (New Orleans 
style coffee)? Are the grounds damp or dry?

Bees can often be found at salt licks intended
for cattle, so you may be seeing the bees reacting
to the coffee grounds in the same manner as they
do salt. (It is claimed by a few sources that
this "need" for salt is a brood-rearing related
issue, but I have not tried to look at this in
any detail, so I don't know much about the
chemistry.)

If they were mistaking it for pollen, they would
be collecting it like pollen. They aren't, so
they aren't.

What happens if you set out a pan of coffee
grounds near the compost pile, and set out a 2nd
pan with coffee grounds in a bit of water?
(This will at least allow you to closely examine
and perhaps photograph the behavior.)

The idea behind the "in water" offering is to
see if the bees suck up the coffee-flavored water,
which would verify that the bees want the chemical
(or the scent) rather than the substance itself.


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## dandelion (Apr 10, 2003)

They go really crazy for the dry grounds from a day or two ago. Not so much for the still damp grounds coffee from the morning, so it seems that they like eating it rather than just sucking it... Hummm!?
The coffee we drink is regular coffee with nothing added. Most often is store bought Starbucks, House blend, Java or Sumatra finely ground daily on an electric coffee grinder, and used in a regular coffee maker. I did not try to offer unused finely ground coffee, which of course would have much more concentration of whatever they seem to like. Nor did I try to offer a pan with water and grounds on it or even just liquid coffee (a double expresso, perhaps?).


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## dandelion (Apr 10, 2003)

I did photograph. Is there a way to post the picture here?
If anybody wants to see it, email me and I send a jpg file.
Take care,
Alejandro


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## dandelion (Apr 10, 2003)

Oh, also... I do have a salt block as the ones they use for cattle, same distance from the hives as the compost pile (about 300 feet), but I never saw them on that salt block yet.


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## John Seets (Jan 9, 2003)

My thought is as a constituent in propolis production. Nothing to back this notion up, tho. 

I've also seen the bees working the seed dust in the bird feeders.


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## John Seets (Jan 9, 2003)

Info about bees and salt:

This comes from Dr. Bob Noel (one of the originators of Honey-B-Healthy) regarding use of salt in wintergreen grease patties for varroa control:

"The idea for using salt came to us from Monte Smith, Alberta, Canada. We placed 5 small patties (about 2 ozs. each) on top of each brood chamber and a ½" [1.27 cm] roll across the entrance, about 3/4" [1.9 cm] back in (rain will wash it away). Adding salt to the patties doubles the rate of consumption by the bees; we used to change the patties monthly; with the addition of salt, the patties are often gone in 7-10 days. We believe the addition of salt enhances the effectiveness of the patties;..."

ref: http://www.hereintown.net/~jkahl/sare.htm


However, on the down side of salt:

Piskovoi et al. (1964) found that common table salt, sodium chloride, in levels as low as 0.125% in sugar syrup, caused dysentery and mortality in caged bees. Bees in overwintering colonies with honey stores containing 0.35 to 1.16% salt were dying prematurely.

ref: http://www.beesource.com/pov/usda/abjfeb1977.htm


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## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

I don't see this as "upside/downside", I see
this as clear evidence of the need for a
specific approach to "salt delivery".

Making salt available in patties allows the bees
to take only what they "want", and seems to have
tangible positive results.

But putting salt in the feed is a bad idea,
as it does not allow the bees to stop taking salt
when they have "had enough", as it is in every
drop of feed.

So, the message here is don't "force" salt on the
bees, as it appears to be toxic in high doses,
but making it available for them to enjoy at their
own pace seems to be a good thing.


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## Barry Digman (May 21, 2003)

I mailed my brother for some input. He's a hot shot commercial coffee roaster. I recall him talking about the sugars in coffee that carmelize and impart different qualities depending on roasting time and temperatures. Perhaps they can detect this sugar?


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## nursebee (Sep 29, 2003)

I read the post to my wife, She reminds me of someone commenting somewhere of burning burlap bags that had coffee that made bees angry.


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## Barry Digman (May 21, 2003)

My brother is guessing the same thing as I guessed...


"Sugar. Roasted arabica has 38% polysaccharides by dry weight. pp.98 of Illly "Espresso Coffee". Coffee taste is derived from the carmelization of complex sugars. Roasted coffee contains around 900 identified chemicals but I'm guessing they are going for the sugars."


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## dandelion (Apr 10, 2003)

I doubt it's the sugars, even admitting they are there. The reason for my doubts is simply that the bees don't seem to be interested in finding sugar. I even offered honey to them on nice days, from some frames of dead colonies and they totally ignored it, diving for the coffee ionstead.
Since I place the original message on coffee though, I have to say that the bees lost interest in it. They are bringing real pollen like there is no tomorrow, so I'm more inclined to lean towards the theory of them "thinking" it was pollen. Now that the real pollen is available in large quantities, the interest for the coffee colapsed.
Who knows...???


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## FordGuy (Jul 10, 2005)

Jim Fischer said:


> Is the coffee by chance a brand of coffee that
> includes chicory in the ingredients (New Orleans
> style coffee)? Are the grounds damp or dry?
> 
> ...



jim or it could mean they were thirsty


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## Hobie (Jun 1, 2006)

Michael Bush said:


> I HAVE wondered if maybe rolling in dust (especially dust of no nutritive value) has to do with getting rid of varroa mites or even Tracheal mites.


It works for cats, dogs, birds, etc. Interesting thought!


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## knadai (Jun 24, 2007)

Check with your queen supplier. If you ordered a Starline, they may have sent a Star_bucks_ instead.


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## Fred Weidemann (10 mo ago)

dandelion said:


> They don't just roll on the coffee. Even though it's hard to tell what they are doing it, they are not packing it into balls on their legs. They seem to eat it. And they surely take it away, at least the very fine powder like coffee. They only leave the grounds that look more like sand than powder.
> I did not squish a bee to see if they carry it in their guts, but where else would they carry it...
> I did not notice either coffee trails in the entrance of the hives, as you see pollen when they carry it in their legs.
> And finally I did not open the hives to see if I can figure out if they are regurgitating it somewhere. It's too early here to mess with my hives.
> Alejandro


Bees have a crop that they transport supplies in. similar but different purpose to a crop in a chicken


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