# Hello everyone, just a few questions for you all.



## ImaNewBeeToThis (Dec 27, 2012)

I'm completely new to this, I've been reading as much about honey bee's as I could and have a couple months to get as much knowledge of beekeeping as possible before I get my first hive to see if I will truly enjoy my new hobby or decide to make it more than a hobby.

1) best type of bees to start with?
2) does the type of flowers in your area decide the taste of your honey? I'm in Lexington, Ky
3) how much in cost am I looking at for a starter kit to get involved?
4) does the type of sugar water you feed bees affect the taste of honey?
5) on an average season, amount of honey, wax to expect from one hive?
6) besides wax, honey and royal jelly, what else can you get from bees?
7) I live in a neighbor hood, my back yard is fenced up all the way around at height of 8 feet. Will this be a problem to neighbors or should I find a farm to put them on?? 

Thanks for your help guys,I really don't know if these are the right questions to even ask.


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## ralittlefield (Apr 25, 2011)

ImaNewBeeToThis said:


> 1) best type of bees to start with?


That is a matter of opinion. I have Italians and Carniolans and like both



ImaNewBeeToThis said:


> 2) does the type of flowers in your area decide the taste of your honey? I'm in Lexington, Ky


 Yes



ImaNewBeeToThis said:


> 3) how much in cost am I looking at for a starter kit to get involved?


 Probably a few hundred dollars. Check several suppliers.



ImaNewBeeToThis said:


> 4) does the type of sugar water you feed bees affect the taste of honey?


 Typically, honey made from syrup is not harvested. It is left for the bees.



ImaNewBeeToThis said:


> 5) on an average season, amount of honey, wax to expect from one hive?


 That varies greatly. I would not expect any the first year.



ImaNewBeeToThis said:


> 6) besides wax, honey and royal jelly, what else can you get from bees?


 Stings



ImaNewBeeToThis said:


> 7) I live in a neighbor hood, my back yard is fenced up all the way around at height of 8 feet. Will this be a problem to neighbors or should I find a farm to put them on??


 You will have to ask your neighbors. Regardless of the fence, the bees may travel a couple of miles from their hive.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

1. Someone elses. Get to know another beekeeper and see if you can handle being around bees before you invest any money.
2. Yes.
3. Hundreds of dollars. Check out the Beekeeping Equipment Catologs. There are a number of them. Kelley Co, of Clarkson,KY would be a good start. Maybe you would like to go see their operation.
4. Feeding sugar syrup should not be done when honey is being produced.
5. The amount of honey and wax produced in your area will vary from year to year and is different from where I live, so predicting that for you won't work. There may be someone near you who has some idea what they have done. A lot depends on the beekeeper's knowledge and ability to manage their colony towards their personal goals.
6. Propolis and venom.
7. Backyard beekeeping can be done and is done all over the World. You will get to know your neighbors.

There are no wrong questions, only wrong answers.


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## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

Find a local bee club. There you can often get in on a group package bee buy. Google "beekeeping supply" and sign up for the various companies hard copy catalogs. If you're starting out on a shoestring, ignore their "starter" setups and get only what you really need.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

1) best type of bees to start with?
I started with local bees from a reputable source. Bsically looked for a local commercial ro semi commercial beekeepr to buy them from.

2) does the type of flowers in your area decide the taste of your honey? I'm in Lexington, Ky
Yes that is one reason local honey is more valuable.

3) how much in cost am I looking at for a starter kit to get involved?
$250 plus bees according to this. http://www.westernbee.com/qs30/products.php?pid=315&detail=true
I paid $100 for a 5 frame nuc of bees. I don't recommend kits but it does give you an idea. This kit woudl not have been large enough for my first year.

4) does the type of sugar water you feed bees affect the taste of honey?
Sugar water is for feeding your bees not making honey. It is also used to help them get comb drawn.

5) on an average season, amount of honey, wax to expect from one hive?
0 to 100 plus lbs per hive depending on many factors. My bees did very well last year. I still got no honey.

6) besides wax, honey and royal jelly, what else can you get from bees?
Propolis, Pollen, Venom, Queens, and the bees themselves.

7) I live in a neighbor hood, my back yard is fenced up all the way around at height of 8 feet. Will this be a problem to neighbors or should I find a farm to put them on?? 

Local ordinance have more to say about this than anything I have 4 colonies in my back yard. no problem. I am also looking for a farm. I want a lot more than just 4 hives.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

3) Don’t buy a starter kit, most are overpriced with allot of stuff you don’t need, read the "How to Start Beekeeping" forum(first forum on this site) for a list of stuff you will need. Shop around, some place offer free shipping. If your handy with cutting wood you can save a bunch making you wooden ware.

I would suggest at least two hives to start.

Learn about mites, and monitor them, figure out how you are going to manage them. Don't ignore them they won’t go away.

Everything you need to know can be found on this site.


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## westernbeekeeper (May 2, 2012)

ImaNewBeeToThis said:


> I'm completely new to this, I've been reading as much about honey bee's as I could and have a couple months to get as much knowledge of beekeeping as possible before I get my first hive to see if I will truly enjoy my new hobby or decide to make it more than a hobby.
> 
> 1) best type of bees to start with?
> 2) does the type of flowers in your area decide the taste of your honey? I'm in Lexington, Ky
> ...


1) VSH Italians.
2) Yes.
3) $300(+-).
4) It shouldn't. You shouldn't extract syrup.
5) None the first year; it varies a lot from there on.
6) Pollen, propolis, more bees.
7) It shouldn't be a problem to keep them at home, especially if you have gentle bees.


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## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

*The four P's: Prior Planning Prevents Poor Performance!*

I second what Mark says above.

You can't always control what the bees do, or the weather, but you can prevent a lot of rookie mistakes by proper planning. If you read the right things, you will have a leg up on most new beekeepers. I like this site for a thorough discussion of up to date issues and practices that a beekeeper must manage to be successful.

I prefer a queen that has been selected for mite resistance and recommend selection of a mite resistant queen for your first year. That limits your choices. I've ordered a few New World Carniolan (NWC) queens for next spring. You will find a fairly current list of mite resistant queen producers here. 

Find a successful and willing mentor at a local bee club, that will give you the leg up you need to be successful in your area.

BTW, don't believe everything you read on a bee forum or see on youtube. When you read something online, keep in mind a person's experience level before betting your $500 investment on questionable advice. HTH


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

I pretty much agree with everyone above. Might add just a couple of remarks since I am only 135 miles southwest of you, at Park City, Ky, Right at Exit 48, I-65) (Mammoth Cave).

1. Italian are the least expensive, most plentiful, so I would recommend starting with Italian, but, there are lots of other good ones also.

2..Absolutely. Each flower nectar produces a different taste, however, if you have multiple flowers/trees/shrubs, blooming, you will get a mixture of the different nectars, so you don't get a specific taste. In Lexington you will get predoninately clover as clover is very prolific, blooms almost all summer. Blackberry is very prolific in Spring, and it will dominate if they are in your area. Early fruit trees has a different taste, but in Lexington most of these will bloom early and the honey made from them will go to build up the hive and make wax/comb in your supers. By the time the bees start making surplus honey, the frut trees, have mostly bloomed out. In late Fall you could get goldenrod if it blooms early, or, we have a very warm September. Goldenrod has a very unique flavor, but, you will rarely get it here because it blooms late and often gets mixed with Fall Asters and Clover. This year was a good year for pretty much pure goldenrod. It bloomed early, and September was very warm.

3. At least few hundred dollars. Talk to someone who is keeping bees, and don't just buy everything that has anything to do with beekeeping. Lots of it you don't really need to get started. Maybe as you grow, but not at first.

4. Sugar water should not figure into the taste of your honey as feeding normally stops before the bees start making surplus honey.

5. In Kentucky, first year package bees, little to none. But, it can vary from year to year. If you get a gallon or two in your supers, make sure your deeps are loaded with honey to get them through the Winter. Better to leave them that extra honey than lose the hive to starvation. If you get a good nuc in early April you could easily get 2-5 gallons first year. After the first year, 4 to 14 gallons per hive, using good management practices is pretty common for this area, with 6 to 10 gallons being a good average. But, you will find you may get 15 gallons from a hive or two, and absolutely none from others, sitting side by side, in the same area.

6. All the above, plus a lot of enjoyment, if you like working with your bees.

7. I have bees in the country, in the woods, and in backyards in Park City and Cave City. I often let neighbors in the towns use a hive or two to pollinate their gardens, never had a problem.

You are 135 miles from me and I invite you to visit my facility, any time after 1 April and I will provide you with suit to wear, and we will go through a few hives and I will be happy to show you, and talk about everything you have asked about, from how the hives are built, to set-up, maintained, split, harvest, etc. I am also happy to help with questions you might have. Just e-mail me [email protected], (270) 749-5191, make a time suitable to both of us, (I am available most any time) and I will be happy to help you.

There is no such thing as a right question, if you do not know the answer.

Hope this has helpful.

cchoganjr


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## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

*Re: The four P's: Prior Planning Prevents Poor Performance!*

There's a huge learning curve and mistakes can result in loss of the bees, A mentor and be club are invaluable.

And there is lots of choices/decisions to make. I'd recommend buying your supers and frames and foundation. They can be made if you have good saws and cabinet making skills. They are not a huge premium in price if you elect to assemble them your self. Bases, bottom boards, inner covers, outer covers or migratory covers are relatively easy to build your self.

If you have a good back and are fit, I suggest going with three deep ten frame supers. Two for brood and one deep honey super. It gives great flexibility to move frames up and down as you manage the brood and winter stores.

I'd then suggest three medium honey supers above that. They are lighter to work with.

Likely at most you'd need one of the three medium honey supers the first year. Feed lots of 1:1 sugar syrup until the two deep broods are mostly drawn and you'll be surprised at the population and potential honey the first year. Harvested 50 lbs the first year and think it would have been a 100 lbs, if mismanagement didn't result in swarming.

This configuration allows you to experience bees and super sizes and you can then decide what your preference is for long term.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

Some great suggestions above. 




ImaNewBeeToThis said:


> get as much knowledge of beekeeping as possible before I get my first hive to see if I will truly enjoy my new hobby


It sounds possible that you have not had the opportunity yet to physically work with bees in the field . It's great that you are reading and studying up on beekeeping, but there is nothing in a book or forum that can prepare you for the actual "experience" of working the bees. It's different for everyone. Hopefully you will become hooked and addicted like so many here on Beesource. But after you've spent some time in the field there is a possibility that you might decide, this is not for me. 

Before you make the decision to invest hundreds of dollars in beekeeping equipment, this is my suggestion. Find a local beekeeping association and sign up for a year. You're probably only looking at a $10-$40 annual membership fee. Attend the meetings and start talking to some experienced members and see if you can find someone who would be willing to mentor you for a season. Borrow or purchase a veil or bee suit, tag along on their inspections, and try to get some hands on experience. You'll figure out pretty quickly if beekeeping is for you or not. At that point, if you decide to pursue it further, there are several different ways to get started. Package bees, nucs, or buy a compete hive set up locally from someone in your association.


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## NasalSponge (Jul 22, 2008)

Here are nine of them in my back (side) yard with my neighbors house 8 foot behind. Never told him I had bees but I am sure he knows.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

welcome to the addiction newbee.

a lot of good advice already given here.

might add, be sure you or anyone close is not deathly allergic to bee stings.

finding another beekeeper nearby who would be willing to let you visit when his/her hives are being opened would be an excellent first thing to do.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

squarepeg said:


> might add, *be sure you or anyone close is deathly allergic* to bee stings.


:scratch: :s Or maybe *NOT*! 

:ws:


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## westernbeekeeper (May 2, 2012)

Hey NasalSponge,
That's a great looking back-bee-yard. Good job!


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

oops, thanks rader, fixed it. 

(rader, as is 'o'reily' on m.a.s.h., nothing much gets by you!  )


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Sorry squarepeg, that was "Radar", not Rader. I don't know if Rader misspelled his own screen name or not. Though I suspect he didn't. I don't know what "RaderSidetracker" means.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Huh. First "o'reily", at least on that TV show, has two "L"s.  And Mark is correct, he is "Radar."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_M*A*S*H_characters

And "Rader", as in my Beesource name, is actually a placename. Rader TN was at one time a thriving village, complete with a Southern Railway depot, water tower and engine coaling facility, general store, church, etc. Today, not so much remains. The village was named after a local family, and of course that was long before anyone ever heard of "*RA*dio *D*etection *A*nd *R*anging" (which got shortened into the acronym RADAR, and is now generally just accepted as a normal word. "radar"). 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar

Since we are way t: anyway, anyone remember when microwave ovens were called "_Radaranges_"? The technology was an offshoot of WW II _radar _research.



> The microwave oven was invented as an accidental by-product of war-time (World War 2) radar research using magnetrons (vacuum tubes that produce microwave radiation, a type of electromagnetic radiation that has a wavelength between 1 mm and 30 cm). In 1946, the engineer Dr. Percy LeBaron Spencer, who worked for the Raytheon Corporation, was working on magnetrons. One day at work, he had a candy bar in his pocket, and found that it had melted. He realized that the microwaves he was working with had caused it to melt. After experimenting, he realized that microwaves would cook foods quickly - even faster than conventional ovens that cook with heat.
> 
> The Raytheon Corporation produced the first commercial microwave oven in 1954; it was called the 1161 *Radarange*. It was large, expensive, and had a power of 1600 watts. The first domestic microwave oven was produced in 1967 by Amana (a division of Raytheon).
> 
> http://www.smecc.org/microwave_oven.htm


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

cool, it was just a play on words.....

and alluding to the way radar never missed a trick...


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## NasalSponge (Jul 22, 2008)

westernbeekeeper said:


> Hey NasalSponge,
> That's a great looking back-bee-yard. Good job!


Thank you Sir!! Looks nothing like that right now, grass ans weeds are tall and I only have three hives right now but thanks!!


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## westernbeekeeper (May 2, 2012)

NasalSponge said:


> Thank you Sir!! Looks nothing like that right now, grass ans weeds are tall and I only have three hives right now but thanks!!


Oh. I thought you were managing to keep it that way now. 
Just kidding! Still looks good. Can you post a pic of your yard as it is now?


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## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

Welcome INBT2!
1) best type of bees to start with?
If there was a best bee we would all have it and drive Dodge Cummins trucks.
2) does the type of flowers in your area decide the taste of your honey? I'm in Lexington, Ky
Floral source does affect taste and color of honey.
3) how much in cost am I looking at for a starter kit to get involved?
We sell a hive with two supers, screened bottom and migratory cover for $106 with bees at USFBG Bee workshops.
4) does the type of sugar water you feed bees affect the taste of honey?
It is sugar syrup if you are feeding -- not honey. It tastes like sugar syrup.
5) on an average season, amount of honey, wax to expect from one hive?
5 gallons of honey, wax depends on number of frames and extraction method
6) besides wax, honey and royal jelly, what else can you get from bees?
propolis, pollen, queens, splits, pollination
7) I live in a neighbor hood, my back yard is fenced up all the way around at height of 8 feet. Will this be a problem to neighbors or should I find a farm to put them on?? 
That should be an adequate flight barrier.


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## ImaNewBeeToThis (Dec 27, 2012)

Thanks for your help guys, I found a local club that meets up on the second Monday of every month. Lots of great info in here and love how helpful everyone has been. 

Just a couple more ?'s, I read a lot that hives produce, anywhere from 60 to maybe if your lucky 100 pounds, but everyone here says be happy with 5 pounds my first year. How does one hive get to producing 60lbs or are those numbers way over exaggerated? 

I looked at a google map of my surroundings, two of the biggest parks are within 3 miles from my house with good size lakes. Lots of golf courses too and a couple horse farms. How would a hive here do vs a hive across town with little greenery located around them? Or does it not make a difference?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Sixty to 100 lbs of honey production claims are from colonies in established hives. Meaning they have all the comb they need built and the colony is robust and thriving. Also, those numbers are what an average of all of the hives in one's apiary produced, but not every year. Thus the wide range. For instance, this year I had some hives which may have produced as much as 60 to 100 lbs, but overall, from my 450 hives, I gleaned an average of 45lbs per colony. So, most of them made considerably less than 60 lbs.

As far as location of an apiary is concerned, whereas a location next to or near a lake my prove to be a good one, the lake provides nothing for the bees. Nothing they can't get just about anywhere else. I don't consider golf courses good apiary sites, due to chemicals used one golf courses and Golfers themselves. Should they encounter your hives, say w/ a misplayed ball.

I think you should keep them home until you are in need of an outyard. Then they will be where you can get to them easily when you have the hankering to take a peek.


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## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

You can get honey and splits the first year if you are prepared to spend some money and time on sugar syrup. 

From a 1 kg package of bees and no comb, I harvested 50 lbs and grew to three hives. I purchased the two additional queens. 

1. Feed them 1:1 sugar syrup to stimulate a nectar flow. They'll draw comb and raise brrod. Stop when you add your honey supers.

2. Apply beewax to foundation and do frame manipulation. Don't be afraid to insert blank foundation between pairs of brood frames. On outer frames, once one side is started to be drawn, reverse the frame so they draw the other side.

3. Once a honey frame is 80% capped, pull and extract. 

4. Feed 2:1 syrup in the fall to supplement winter food supplies.

5. Monitor food supply over winter and add dry sugar, fondant, candy blocks.

50lbs of honey at even a Costco pricce of $3 per lb, and 2 additional hives of bees, if bees are worth $100 each is $350. Should deduct two queens cost of $50, but $300 buys a lot of sugar. And the sugar is the cheap part of the hobby!

60 lbs is not a lot of honey. A deep super fully drawn and filled is 50 lbs of honey and two mediums is 60 lbs. 

My goals for my first year was to get some honey, learn, get a second hive functional, and get my bees through the first winter.


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## Jon11 (Mar 29, 2011)

"I looked at a google map of my surroundings, two of the biggest parks are within 3 miles from my house with good size lakes. Lots of golf courses too and a couple horse farms. How would a hive here do vs a hive across town with little greenery located around them? Or does it not make a difference?"

Golf course won't be much help for honey production unless they have some trees on them like black locust or tulip poplars, otherwise they are too manicured. This can also be a problem in neighborhoods. If the people in your neighborhood don't spray their yards and allow clover to grow it will be great. In some of the higher end subdivisions I hardly see any clover because they spray their yards. The horse farms should be good however. 
Dadant has a location in Frankfort that would be a pretty quick drive from Lexington. I went there they day after Christmas and they people were real nice. I'm sure they would be glad to help you with anything you need.


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## Honey In The Meadow (Jul 9, 2012)

Here is a link to a online course that Penn State offers. 


http://beekeeping101.psu.edu/

Hope it helps.......... good luck!


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## alblancher (Mar 3, 2011)

If properly done your neighboors may never know you have bees. Well, lets say that when they do find out you may be able to point out that they have been in your backyard for a full year and no one has noticed until now! Check your local codes. 

Seems like the biggest problem people around you will have is with the bees wanting to visit their pools. Keep a good water supply near your hives, it may help.


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## ImaNewBeeToThis (Dec 27, 2012)

No one has pools in my neighborhood so I'm good to go.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>1) best type of bees to start with?

Local feral mutts would be my preference, but that is an easy thing to change at any time by simply buying and introducing some other queen of a different race.
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesraces.htm

>2) does the type of flowers in your area decide the taste of your honey? I'm in Lexington, Ky

Different nectar sources taste different, yes. Many sources, however, are the same across the country, such as clover...

>3) how much in cost am I looking at for a starter kit to get involved?

I would not buy a starter kit. There is nothing in the typical starter kit that I have any use for. The boxes, frames and cell size of foundation are not what I want. I have preferences on hive tools that are not the standard. I prefer a larger smoker (easier to keep lit) and I don't like just a veil nor the long gloves, I wear a jacket with a veil and regular leather gloves which are easier to get on and off.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnewbees.htm
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesoptions.htm

>4) does the type of sugar water you feed bees affect the taste of honey?

If it does, you're feeding when you shouldn't...

>5) on an average season, amount of honey, wax to expect from one hive?

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesexpectations.htm

>6) besides wax, honey and royal jelly, what else can you get from bees?

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesbasics.htm#productsofthehive

>7) I live in a neighbor hood, my back yard is fenced up all the way around at height of 8 feet. Will this be a problem to neighbors or should I find a farm to put them on??

I had bees in town for 38 years with no issues. It will depend more on your neighbors.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beestencommandments.htm#originaltwo


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## ImaNewBeeToThis (Dec 27, 2012)

I'm lost, I see that some deep bodies have 5 different sizes to them. What are the different sizes for? There is a 9 5/8" a 7 5/8" and down to a 5 5/8". What does this mean?


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

9 5/8" Deep 7 5/8" Medium 5 5/8"Shallow Supers. It means you have a choice.
You also have 10 frame and 8 frame in all three depths.
Many people will suggest you go all med boxes since they are easier to lift. Some will say 8 frame for the same reason.
Some also say that bees do better for various reasons in 8 frame equipment. The general thinking is that bees don't want to build out as much as they want to build up.
So an 8 framed med super would be about as light as you can choose for your boxes.
Some people like me have a mix. I use with deep and shallow boxes both 10 frame. I will tell you after lifting a deep of honey I can see why people came up with the Med depth box. I think the Deep 10 frame box got it's size because it is at the very limit of what a person can tolerate to pick up. they are very heavy.


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## ImaNewBeeToThis (Dec 27, 2012)

Wait, so there are 3 sizes to a deep? Three sizes to a medium and so on?


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## ralittlefield (Apr 25, 2011)

ImaNewBeeToThis said:


> Wait, so there are 3 sizes to a deep? Three sizes to a medium and so on?


As far as the depth is concerned, a deep is always 9 5/8". It can vary in the number of frames that it will hold, 10 frames, 8 frames, 5 frames, etc. The same is true of medium and shallows. 

Having said that, there are a couple of different depth medium. I forget what they are called, maybe Western and Illinois.


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## ImaNewBeeToThis (Dec 27, 2012)

Sounds good, I think I'm going to go with all 8 frame equipment. How long does a frame with wax foundation last vs a frame with plastic ?


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## ralittlefield (Apr 25, 2011)

The lifespan of wax vs plastic foundation can be one of the last things that you worry about! 

I do believe that it is less troublesome to get bees to draw comb on wax than plastic.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

Pretty much.
Anything 9 5/8 deep is concidered a deep. it can then be 10 frame, 8 frame, 5 frame or even 4,3 or 2 frame. Anything smaller than 8 frame is called a nuc.

You can then have the same in med depth boxes.

I have never heard of a 5 frame or smaller shallow but I have heard of 8 frame shallows.

For the most part you have 10 and 8 frame. deep med or shallows. and deep or med nucs. the nucs can be anywhere from 3 frame to 5 frame.

Three depths. two widths for the most part when it comes to actual hives you would keep bees in. Nucs are for getting new colonies started in before they are moved to full size hives.

Queen produces then have a tiny little hive that is a real exception. They are called mating nucs and for the most part every queen producer has something different.


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## ralittlefield (Apr 25, 2011)

Daniel Y said:


> Nucs are for getting new colonies started in before they are moved to full size hives.


That may be true in the context of this discussion, but that is not the only use for them .


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## ralittlefield (Apr 25, 2011)

Do you plan on getting bees this year? If so, now is the time to get them ordered!


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## ImaNewBeeToThis (Dec 27, 2012)

Yes I was wondering when I should order bees. I have walter Kelly co about hour and half from me. Dadant co about 30 min from me. So I'm glad two good companies are with in a drive for me. Now for bees I'm looking to get a nuc as all my research shows the best way to go. Ill order them here in the next week. I'm really hooked on the Russian queen or maybe a hybrid from Walter Kelly.
Ill be purchasing all my equipment in February on the first Saturday as its the only day they are open. I think I'll be going with two hives so things could get expensive as I like the best equipment when ever I decide to dive into something. I have an odd feeling I'm going to be good at this and enjoy it a lot .


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I'm lost, I see that some deep bodies have 5 different sizes to them. What are the different sizes for? There is a 9 5/8" a 7 5/8" and down to a 5 5/8". What does this mean? 

This is the depth (the measurment vertically). The original Langstroth was 9 5/8". Since they were too heavy to lift full of honey, he make supers that were shallow (5 3/4"). Since it took a lot of uncapping Dadant came up with a medium (6 5/8"). For comb honey someone came up with cutting a standard 9 5/8" in half which makes two 4 3/4" (you lose the saw kerf) boxes and these are Extra shallows. Someone thought that having all the same size boxes was nice, but decided that the mediums were just a little small and came up with the 7 5/8" box. Dadant decided that a 9 5/8" box was too shallow for the queen to have enough room in one box so he came up with the 11 5/8" box with 12 frames in it.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslazy.htm#lighterboxes

I run all eight frame mediums and would highly recommend it. Having all the same size frame is a Godsend. Having boxes you can lift when they are full of honey is also. Being able to manage "by the box" is a huge time saver as well.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

ralittlefield said:


> As far as the depth is concerned, a deep is always 9 5/8".


Just a note here so we always remember to follow the rule of always avoiding and never using the words never and always. 

Deeps are not always 9 5/8". It depends on the manufacturer, and whether you have top or bottom bee space. For instance, the boxes people buy from Kelly Bee Company are listed as 9 9/16. Some make their boxes 9 7/8".

My post is all in fun, not to start an argument. This is what I thought ImaNewBeeToThis meant when he posted that there are three sizes of deeps. If so, yes, there are at least 3, maybe more in common use.

cchoganjr


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## ralittlefield (Apr 25, 2011)

Cleo C. Hogan Jr said:


> Just a note here so we always remember to follow the rule of always avoiding and never using the words never and always.


Very good advise Cleo! I should have known better. (Actually, it was just a test to see if you were on the ball!  .


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

Just having a little fun. Sometimes people are too serious.

cchoganjr


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

ralittlefield said:


> That may be true in the context of this discussion, but that is not the only use for them .


I thought about that aw I wrote that. And you are actually right. but given that the OP is still a bit confused over hive sized I though it best to keep it simple for now.

What Ralph is referring to is that nucs have many uses. You can discover some of those uses as your beekeeping experience progresses.


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## ImaNewBeeToThis (Dec 27, 2012)

ImaNewBeeToThis said:


> Yes I was wondering when I should order bees. I have walter Kelly co about hour and half from me. Dadant co about 30 min from me. So I'm glad two good companies are with in a drive for me. Now for bees I'm looking to get a nuc as all my research shows the best way to go. Ill order them here in the next week. I'm really hooked on the Russian queen or maybe a hybrid from Walter Kelly.
> Ill be purchasing all my equipment in February on the first Saturday as its the only day they are open. I think I'll be going with two hives so things could get expensive as I like the best equipment when ever I decide to dive into something. I have an odd feeling I'm going to be good at this and enjoy it a lot .


Any thought on this?


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

I know it must be confusing for a beginner, Mr Bush gives a good synopsis in post #41. Let's be clear as there was some conflicting information earlier in this thread. A medium (or Illinois) is a 6 5/8" box, the 5 5/8" is commonly referred to as a shallow. I am not sure the industry has ever settled on a name for the 7 5/8" size.


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## jbeshearse (Oct 7, 2009)

Don't make it to simple. remember that:

A Deep (9 5/8) holds frames that are 9 1/8" and the frames hold foundation that is 8 3/8"
A medium (6 5/8) holds frames that are 6 1/4" and the frames hold foundation that is 5 5/8"
A shallow (5 11/16) holds frames that are 5 3/8" and the frmes hold foundation that is 4 3/4"


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