# Confirm Varroa in this pic please



## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Dude, you got mites!


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## SmokeyHill (Feb 6, 2018)

Thanks JW. This was from the hive I believe started as a package and has a marked queen.They are covering about 5-6 frames currently, taking 1:1 and eating pollen patties like mad. Should I treat this hive? The 72 hour sticky board count was 3 mites. That seems high to me for a smallish population.
I couldn't confirm any mites on the other hives board. It's a much larger colony, with a lot more debris. Even in my macro shots I couldn't confirm anything. It's my belief that the seller treated that nuc at some point this spring, which may explain its low mite load, but didn't treat the package nuc.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

I dont feel 3 mites over 72 hours is worrisome. More like something to keep track of over the next few weeks until you pull any honey supers you may have on the hives. At that point, see what you have and treat if the numbers are higher. I do not have a rule of thumb number handy for sticky board drops like I do for alcohol washes. Maybe Nancy can help with that.


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

A single sticky board count rarely tells you anything useful, especially if is low. (I've pulled board on badly-neglected hives and had hundreds of them - yowzaa!) It's the overall trend that matters.

Keep doing the boards every week and write down the numbers. A simple graph will tell you what you need to know, and when to treat.

Three mites in 72 hours, particularly if you started the count right after you worked the bees, is nothing to get excited about. In the future start your 3-day counts so that they end on the day you next plan to work the bees. Count before you disturb the hive.

Or if you're really keen, or as crazy as I am, do a count every single day for a few months. It hardly takes any time and you needn't re-oil the board every time. Just pull it, look for any mites, remove it/them and shove the board back in. Write the number down, immediately, or you won't remember it. Try to figure out the reason for any anomalies above or below the trend-graph line. 

Nancy


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## Fivej (Apr 4, 2016)

So, your sugar roll may have been fairly accurate actually.


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## SmokeyHill (Feb 6, 2018)

I was actually starting to think the same thing J. Low sticky board numbers and a zero sugar roll coincide pretty well. I've just read so many horror stories about mites, I thought I would see them everywhere I looked. I really, really don't want to loose my hives to mites.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Mite counts tend to peak a little later in the summer. That is why in my area we treat with Apivar in August. Randy Oliver has some cool graphs showing how the population explodes depending on counts earlier in the season. I dont quite understand all the details, just know that that is how it works.


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## viesest (Jul 13, 2016)

JWPalmer said:


> I dont quite understand all the details, just know that that is how it works.


Formula for expected number of mites is: Expected number of mites = Number of mites at the beginning of season (e.g. 1st March) * 2 powered by Number of cycles. And cycle is number of days when number of mites gets doubled (i.e. 20 days).


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Thanks, actually sounds pretty simple. About a gazillion years ago I had to do population modeling in a closed system for a math class. Never again. Now math is how much alcohol is in a six pack of Coors Light.:scratch:


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## SmokeyHill (Feb 6, 2018)

OK, so here's a question:

Since I appear to have low numbers, would it make sense to treat with Apivar now and take a shot at eradicating the mite population until the fall brood break then hit them with OAV going into winter? I have no honey supers on since they are both still in single deeps. I will probably add a second deep to Sassy Peach within the next 10 days, but Toasted Wheat is at least 2-3 weeks away from that point. My thought process is, why wait until the mite population gets larger? Why not knock the crap out of them right now, while the population is small, and then smack them again in the fall?
I know I won't get them all, but if I get even 50% efficacy that would have a serious impact on the fall numbers according to the formula Viesest posted above. I don't want to wait until the counts are "high enough" to treat. I want them dead right now. To me, waiting until the counts are "high enough" is like surrendering to the fact that you will always be fighting a loosing battle and are willing to just break even. I don't want to break even. I want to win.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

If you want to treat now, use OAV and do 5 treatments 5 days apart. But you dont need to, and excessive treating to be preemptive is probably not healthy for the bees. The fact is that even if you have zero mites in September, your hives can still mite crash and die by the end of October. This is due to hitchhiker mites the bees bring back with them when the rob out mite weakened hives in the area. Last year, many beekeepers were complaining about their hives "absconding" in the fall because they "knew" it couldn't be mites because they had treated. Pictures of these hives showed unmistakble evidence of a massive mite infestation. Don't worry about a few mites right now. Save your treatment money and buy an OAV wand for later this fall.


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## viesest (Jul 13, 2016)

SmokeyHill said:


> and take a shot at eradicating the mite population until the fall


Mites can not be eradicated during summer and in fall they are at their peak. Ensure mites are in tens or hundreds in summer and fall, don't let the number increase to be in thousands. Later when bees will not be flaying try to eradicate them (mites). (btw. one shot is for OAD, for OAD it is more than recommendation because OAD seems to kill 5-!0% of bees, and killing 5-!0% of bees many times decreases probability of surviving the colony. OAV is less hard to bees and 2-3 OAVs will not endanger colony; and overall efficiency of 2-3 OAVs is higher then only one, also reliability is higher. Starting with extremely low number of mites means less problems with mites during season.)


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## fputnamjr (Jan 7, 2017)

Sticky board isn't very accurate. Same with sugar. Do the alcohol wash. You may have more than you think. It's best to be sure.


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## blainenay (Oct 14, 2011)

SmokeyHill said:


> In another thread I was concerned about seeing zero mites in a sugar roll test....


I've seen colonies with full-blown Parasitic Mite Syndrome while still showing a zero mite count with the sugar roll test. An alcohol wash is far more accurate. Sure, it sacrifices 300 bees, but, in the end, it saves the other 30,000 in the hive.


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## queensrule (Oct 28, 2015)

Please don’t panic but it looks like Varroa mites to me. Order up some Apivar treatment strips asap. Hang with a finish nail in center of brood nest 1- per 5- frames for 6-week treatment. Best to you in Beekeeping and have fun 🐝🐝🐝💯👍✨


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

Oh, please ......

Sticky boards (at least regular ones) give adequate information for making good treatment decisions. Sugar rolls can be as accurate as alcohol washes. The two combined will tell what you need to know.

You can't expect to "eradicate" mites form hives since the bees bring in new ones as long as they flying.

Doing high-quality sugar rolls takes practice, so keep practicing!

OAV in summer has some utility but can't be done when you have honey supers on (nor can you use Apivar during that time either.) (There is an off-the-books work around for OAV, but not for Apivar.) OA, in any form, is not the most effective treatment when there is lots of brood. MAQS or Formic Pro can be used with honey supers, and it also kills mites under the cappings so it is very useful when there is a lot brood. It has some modest, usually manageable, usage constraints to avoid risk of queen loss.

What you need to aim for in the summer (and this summer, in particular) is sufficient suppression to keep the problem restrained "enough" to protect your bees at the end of the summer. Those bees will be raising your all-important winter bees during the fall, and it is essential that those nurse bees are not infected and weakened by the viral diseases mites transmit. 

From late summer onwards the focus is on hammering the mites down, down, down, right up to a final treatment around the Solstice, when the bees have stopped brooding, and when you will have the best opportunity of the entire year at really cleaning them up. (Though never expect 100% eradication.) During the fall you can expect that there may be successive waves of re-infestation, so don't stop doing sugar rolls until cold weather forces you to do so. Weekly sticky boards should then continue on into and through the winter. 

Next year, after excellent control the this fall, and a final treatment with some form of OA during the broodless period, you will may be on your way to a lower-intensity treatment regimen. But you can't hope to have that without constant vigilance using monitoring: sticky boards and sugar rolls.

Since this is a new colony you are dealing with the consequences of whatever mite program was used on the bees before they came into your care, so this summer extra vigilance is needed. Once you establish a good year-round program, your seasonal patterns for treatment and the mites seen during testing may be different.

Nancy


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## queensrule (Oct 28, 2015)

Just remember that after using Apivar there is a waiting period “I think a few weeks” until installing your honey supers to allow for the soft treatment to dissipate. Read the package label


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## SmokeyHill (Feb 6, 2018)

After the latest inspection, I've decided not to treat...yet. The 72 hour sticky board revealed zero mites for both colonies. I'm not naive enough to believe there are zero mites in the hives, but that the numbers must be low. I'm sugar rolling again Friday and may follow that with a confirmation alcohol wash to set my own mind at ease. I'll gladly sacrifice 300 for the survival of thousands and it will confirm the sugar roll numbers.
Nancy, do you have a video of your sugar roll procedures?


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

No, I don't do on-camera work anymore. Sorry!

You can read about Michigan sugar rolling method here: https://pollinators.msu.edu/resources/beekeepers/varroa-mite-

You can read about my process modifications to the Michigan mite monitoring sugar roll method in this thread: https://www.beesource.com/forums/sh...mite-checks&p=1633261#post1633261monitoring1/


I'll be glad to answer questions.

Nancy


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