# How many Hives???



## dkdusey (Apr 3, 2014)

If there is 25 125 acre Pivots of Alfalfa being cut at 15% flowering. in the middle of the Desert with virtually no other Flowering sources other than the mesquite when it blooms. how many Hives could be comfortably run off of these fields? is there a standard ratio of Hives per acre on alfalfa? before they don't have enough feed? 

thanks
Dustin


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

It seems to me that Dee Lusby has about 20 to 40 hives in each of her apiaries in the middle of the Sonora desert. There are miles between them. They are always next to water tanks for cattle with board as floats for the bees. They are thriving. You may be underestimating the value of the desert and how many other sources there are. The alfalfa won't hurt...


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## dkdusey (Apr 3, 2014)

Michael Bush said:


> It seems to me that Dee Lusby has about 20 to 40 hives in each of her apiaries in the middle of the Sonora desert. There are miles between them. They are always next to water tanks for cattle with board as floats for the bees. They are thriving. You may be underestimating the value of the desert and how many other sources there are. The alfalfa won't hurt...


You are Most likely correct. I am hoping for that, but want to be prepared. I have an opportunity to Winter some Hives there, instead of Storing them in a Warehouse. also all the fields are in the same area next to each other. probably in about a 6 Square mile area. the water source would be the Constant Watering of the fields from the pivots. the fields are cut and watered at varying stages... so there is always water and always alfalfa in bloom.

Dustin


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

She also runs 3 deeps, so the hives have a lot of resources to weather dearths.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>She also runs 3 deeps

Mostly she runs 5 deeps. I've only seen a few that were 3 deeps... and yes she leaves them plenty of resources and only feeds in really bad years.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

dkdusey said:


> If there is 25 125 acre Pivots of Alfalfa being cut at 15% flowering. in the middle of the Desert with virtually no other Flowering sources other than the mesquite when it blooms. how many Hives could be comfortably run off of these fields? is there a standard ratio of Hives per acre on alfalfa? before they don't have enough feed?
> 
> thanks
> Dustin


Alfalfa is an unpredictable nectar source. My experience is it often yields the best when temps are high and the alfalfa is somewhat drought stressed. It's both caught me by surprise and disappointed me. I wouldn't get my hopes up to high with irrigated alfalfa. Seems like the water can go more for growth and less for nectar. The best answer is going to come from someone in your area who has tried it. I would inquire about spray, though. I have heard lots of sad alfalfa stories from out west.


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## red (Jan 15, 2013)

Around here first cutting gets hit by bug spray. Any of the second cutting that wasn;t hit during the first round generaly gets hit by bug spray. Over all the bees don't like to work it if anything else is available. If you have a feild in full bloom that has been drought stressed as Jim said above the bees can make a killer honey crop.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

I concur with Jim:

My experience is it often yields the best when temps are high and the alfalfa is somewhat drought stressed. 

But a shot in the dark with alfalfa always beats corn and northern soybeans.

We put our bees near silos and windmills.

Crazy Roland


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

Around here you get 1 week of late bud/early flowering before the alfalfa is cut. It can bring in 4 -5 one week flows a year. I wouldn't count on it though.


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

Also on your radar should be your number two consideration: Your answer partially depends on how many hives the competition has sitting on the other side of the field or over the hill. 

Thank God for Google earth and the ability to put a plane on its side to see whats out there...


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## sharpdog (Jun 6, 2012)

jim lyon said:


> Alfalfa is an unpredictable nectar source. My experience is it often yields the best when temps are high and the alfalfa is somewhat drought stressed. It's both caught me by surprise and disappointed me. I wouldn't get my hopes up to high with irrigated alfalfa. Seems like the water can go more for growth and less for nectar. The best answer is going to come from someone in your area who has tried it. I would inquire about spray, though. I have heard lots of sad alfalfa stories from out west.


This interests me. We have miles of alfalfa that is just starting to bloom after the first and only cut. I have been praying for rain, as we haven't had any in a month but perhaps its for the best. Under dry conditions how could alfalfa produce more nectar? Seems counter-intuitive?
Luke


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## ABruce (Dec 27, 2013)

sharpdog said:


> This interests me. We have miles of alfalfa that is just starting to bloom after the first and only cut. I have been praying for rain, as we haven't had any in a month but perhaps its for the best. Under dry conditions how could alfalfa produce more nectar? Seems counter-intuitive?
> Luke


Sharpdog, 
for what is worth, everything shut down here in the Okanagan by mid July, I have irrigated alfalfa near by, but water is expensive and they sure don't give it as much as the corn fields. My first year hives are averaging two weeks to build comb fill and cap a medium. It has to be alfalfa, other than corn and lawns nothing else is green let alone in bloom. We are on the left overs from the second cut and some fields have been cut a third time so they are short but in bloom.


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## TWall (May 19, 2010)

> Under dry conditions how could alfalfa produce more nectar? Seems counter-intuitive?
> Luke


I'm just guessing but, the sugar content of the nectar will be higher under drier conditions. Besides taking less nectar to make a pound of honey it could be that it is also much more attractive to the bees.

Tom


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Alfalfa taps deep into the sub soil and draws moisture beneath what most crops can reach


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

sharpdog said:


> This interests me. We have miles of alfalfa that is just starting to bloom after the first and only cut. I have been praying for rain, as we haven't had any in a month but perhaps its for the best. Under dry conditions how could alfalfa produce more nectar? Seems counter-intuitive?
> Luke


Yes it does seem odd but I have seen it time after time. Ian is quite right, alfalfa will root down as deep as 15'. Heres another oddity. Alfalfa honey produced at higher elevations is generally darker than alfalfa honey at lower elevations. Anything much over 5,000' will usually grade out in the ELA range (35mm and above). Our alfalfa at the 2,000' range is usually in the mid to upper 20 mm range.


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## red (Jan 15, 2013)

The elevation idea is interesting. I am at 4300 feet and my alfalfa honey comes out dark. I just thought the bees were mixing something else with it. This is good to know.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Ian and Jim are right about the roots. The subsoil has an effect also. Some of our yards are on clay, the others on glacial till A.K.A. sand and gravel, which dries out fast. They react to rain and drought differently.

The "Bull of the Woods" would say that a dry spell after cutting alfalfa MIGHT cause the alfalfa to bloom before it was tall enough to cut. That was the situation with some of our yards in August of 2012.

Crazy Roland


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## Tim KS (May 9, 2014)

Quite often older stands of alfalfa will be left to go to seed after the third cutting in a dry year. That's when you want have bees there. Owners often look for bees to help with pollination during this time too. A good seed crop can be lucrative for both bee owners & farmers.


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## mnbeekeeper (Jun 30, 2010)

farmers here are on the 5th cutting. been a great year for growing it here but not making honey off it. we have heavy soil so we need hot and dry to make honey. some bee yards in sandy soil like roland spoke of did good this year while most in heavy soil did not do as well. only two days in the 90s here all year.


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## RAK (May 2, 2010)

We have bees on both irrigated and dry. Still have honey coming in from the irrigated fields while the dry fields couldnt come back from the drought. Not a bee on the flowers in the dry. Last year was opposite.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Alfalfa makes beautiful honey to winter on, yards around alfalfa winter nicely.


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## dkdusey (Apr 3, 2014)

Thanks for all the information. I think I am going to try it this year, but only with a couple of Hundred Hives.. see if it makes them stronger Hives going into Pollination, from the alfalfa fields rather than the warehouse. these fields produce 7 crops a year and are less than 1000 ft. in elevation. I am also hoping to see how they do with the surrounding Desert vegetation, and see what the soil is like. the extra Bonus is that it secures my Hives for the Pollination of the Seed in the spring as well. I know I should know this, but still no one has mentioned How many hives would be too many in that area. I have looked around and don't see any other hives. these fields are isolated in the Desert with no other fields in the area, and the landowner said there is no other bees. I will double verify that Personally before bringing the bees down. any other ideas or suggestions??


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## Riskybizz (Mar 12, 2010)

I have 4 yards scattered of about 12 hives in each yard right in the middle of irrigated alfalfa fields along the Rio Grande River here in N.M. It is surrounded by desert. Most of my white sweet clover has finished up and the bees have been on the alfalfa now for a couple weeks. I had shallowed most of the hives with two boxes of drawn comb above an excluder a couple weeks ago. Its interesting that this year I have seen field after field not cut in full bloom now for quite some time. Its unmistakable even at a great distance. In years past they usually get 5 cuts with the last crop going to seed. We have had a great deal of rain here since mid-July, so perhaps the fields have been too wet for them to cut in some cases.  This past Saturday I went through 3 of the yards and pulled 18 boxes of capped alfalfa honey. The honey this year is quite light, much lighter than amber. As my beekeeping is mostly limited now to weekends I really do need to get back out there and pull the rest and get that wet comb back on them. I have pulled over a ton so far from just those yards at that location. I am on tribal lands and I am the only beekeeper there.


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## Bradley_Bee (May 21, 2008)

Im curious to know where this location is? not that I want to take bees there, just that I'm in the desert and wondering.


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## Riskybizz (Mar 12, 2010)

The Rio Grande river provides irrigation for agricultural areas from the Taos basin all the way to Las Cruces at the Mexico border with most cash crops being alfalfa. Tribal lands are also dispersed along this corridor as that is where they chose to settle many years ago. I am fortunate to keep bees on tribal lands as most anglo outsiders are not welcomed. Along with alfalfa as a cash crop the Indians also grow a lot of corn and vegetables, mainly squash and melons. In years past they realized that these vegetable crops have been failing to produce in abundance. I made a presentation years ago regarding the benefits of having honeybees on their lands to pollinate their crops. The relationship is now one of mutal respect of their lands and the bees as a valuable resource. This narrow strip of land is in some places no wider than a mile along the river. Everything else is hills and desert.


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