# Nosema in Winter



## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

I've never tried it, but on a warmer day you might be able to dribble the medicated syrup right on the bees with a large syringe .. similar to the method used to dribble OA. If the syrup runs down and coats the bees they will be forced to consume it. Might have to repeat the process a few times so they ingest enough to be effective. Just a thought.


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## SAS (Sep 4, 2015)

Thank you Mike!

Can you mix Fumagili-B with powdered sugar and dust them with it? 

I may have to wait until next month for a little warmer weather, before I can drizzle them with treated syrup.

Thank you again Mike


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

Fumigilin-B is in liquid form I believe, so i doubt dusting would be an option. 

I found this old thread, might be a good read for you.

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?225403-fumigillin-b-drench-method


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## whiskers (Aug 28, 2011)

Here's a link to instructions for fumagilin b that describes dribbling it on as Mike suggests.
https://www.drugs.com/vet/fumagilin-b-soluble-powder-can.html
I know so little about it that I had to look up whether it was a liquid or powder, but since powder, and hence able to survive drying (maybe not wet and then dry though) perhaps try incorporating it into a sugar brick and feeding that until it warms enough so they will take syrup. Seems harmless anyway.
Bill


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## Billboard (Dec 28, 2014)

Doesnt tea tree oil help with nosema? I would try mixing some in some fondant or sugar bricks and give it a whirl. Its not anti biotic but it can help. Whats it gunna hurt trying.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

whiskers said:


> I know so little about it that I had to look up whether it was a liquid or powder,


I thought it was sold in liquid form. Shows how much I've used it. 

Good link.


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## SAS (Sep 4, 2015)

Thank you all very much.

I was thinking about "incorporating it into a sugar brick" as whishers suggested. Has anyone tried it?


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

Bee poop is not necessary nosema. 

If you're unsure send a sample to the lab for confirmation;

http://www.ars.usda.gov/Services/docs.htm?docid=7458

If you treat the wrong type of nosema you may make it worse;

http://journals.plos.org/plospathogens/article?id=10.1371/journal.ppat.1003185

R Oliver;

http://scientificbeekeeping.com/nosema-ceranae-kiss-of-death-or-much-ado-about-nothing/


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## stanton21 (Sep 30, 2016)

Now you got me woundering. All the summer and fall bees died. So i have winter bees that are way different. They dont realy go outside clean the hive of dead bees. Eat winter patty or suger i have on top for them. I did notice the last warm up here in north west indiana there was a lot of runny poop on the side and on top of the hive. Today i got squrted on and its yellow. Yellow good brown bad? I did find Fumagillin B in powder form. I need to come up with a feeding plan inside the hive. I was looking at a hamster water feeder. But i dont think it leaks past the ball much.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

Nosema Apis is dark almost black poop. N. Apis has been replaced by N ceranae which does not have the same symptoms. I would not treat without lab confirmation. You would be putting additional stress on your bees for the wrong reasons.


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## SAS (Sep 4, 2015)

The "poop" is very dark brown almost black and runny splatters, and lots of it. 

The other 13 hives (I have 14 total) have very little "poop" around the entrance, and nothing on top bars. The very little poop I do see on the other hives is small brown spots, not runny or dark.


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## BadBeeKeeper (Jan 24, 2015)

SAS said:


> The "poop" is very dark brown almost black and runny splatters, and lots of it.
> 
> The other 13 hives (I have 14 total) have very little "poop" around the entrance, and nothing on top bars. The very little poop I do see on the other hives is small brown spots, not runny or dark.


Yeah, I had one like that a couple of years or so ago, there was nothing to do but wait and see, it was far too cold to try feeding the Fum-B...I've tried feeding in baggies late and it was a crapshoot, some would take it and some wouldn't. The bees made it through to Spring, the hive was -very- nasty inside and it took some doing to clean it up.


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## SAS (Sep 4, 2015)

I want to thank everyone for the great info. But unfortunately, I lost that hive. I checked it yesterday, and all the bees were dead. 

We had a cold snap for a couple of days last week, low's in the teens to upper single digits at night; nothing unusual for this time of year, in fact, it is normally much colder, and for longer periods of time. I guess the hive was too weak to survive. 

Thank you all again.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

Sorry to hear that.

It's not too late to send a sample to the lab for a free test, depending on the results will determine what you should do with the equipment.

USDA lab link posted above.


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## dudelt (Mar 18, 2013)

A little bit off the original question but according to the Randy Oliver link above "Nosema apis is a cold weather disease, evidenced by the symptom of dysentery (above). An infection by N. ceranae is generally without symptoms—the older bees simply “disappear.”" This sentence makes me wonder. Could N. ceranae be the cause of all/many of the cases of absconding we hear about on this forum?


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## SAS (Sep 4, 2015)

FlowerPlanter said:


> Sorry to hear that.
> 
> It's not too late to send a sample to the lab for a free test, depending on the results will determine what you should do with the equipment.
> 
> USDA lab link posted above.


Thank you FlowerPlanter.

And thanks for the advise about having a sample tested. 

As far as the equipment goes, I'm going to destroy all the frames, but try to salvage the boxes & bottom board, if possible.

I plan on taking a torch to the inside of the boxes and bottom board, and scorch them pretty deep without destroying them. After torching the boxes and bottom board, I'll wire brush them and possibly torch them again, but not as deep.
This will all depend on the results from the lab. I don't want to take any chances, just to save equipment.

The one question I do have is, how do I find out who and where to send the sample too? 

Thanks again!!


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

>As far as the equipment goes, I'm going to destroy all the frames, but try to salvage the boxes & bottom board, if possible.

May not be necessary, "Glacial acidic acid" fumigation can clean up nosema in comb too. Bleach and UV rays for equipment. Comb is an asset I would not destroy cause of nosema. 

>The one question I do have is, how do I find out who and where to send the sample too? 

For mites and nosma test send bees, it's also free;

http://www.ars.usda.gov/Services/docs.htm?docid=7458

I would collect the bees you need for the sample, shake the rest out to prevent mold, (if you have capped brood take pictures and post). Seal your hive and wait 1-2 weeks for the lab results. There have been others that suspected nosema that came back negative from the lab.


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## BadBeeKeeper (Jan 24, 2015)

> I'm going to destroy all the frames, but try to salvage the boxes & bottom board, if possible.


It is not necessary to destroy anything, not even frames.Nosema spores can be killed by various means, including ordinary sunlight. I've made a couple of posts on this subject already, with links to research. Don't burn money for no reason.


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## SAS (Sep 4, 2015)

FlowerPlanter & BadBeeKeeper,

Thanks again for the great info. I truly didn't want to destroy any equipment, and it's great to hear that I may not have to, due to what you both have said. I'll wait for the results before I do anything.

And thank you for the link: http://www.ars.usda.gov/Services/docs.htm?docid=7458. I'll contact them ASAP.


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## Cloverdale (Mar 26, 2012)

SAS said:


> Thank you all very much.
> 
> I was thinking about "incorporating it into a sugar brick" as whishers suggested. Has anyone tried it?


I was told that nosema cerana has mostly overtaken nosema apis. There can be other reasons for the pooping too. As stated above if you treat n. cerana it will make it worse; as stated above you should find out what type it is. If it is n. apis, you could try using warm syrup mixed with f. in a gallon freezer bag laying on the top of the bars over the bee cluster (where it's warmer) putting a small slice in it with a razor or whatever.


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## Cloverdale (Mar 26, 2012)

dudelt said:


> A little bit off the original question but according to the Randy Oliver link above "Nosema apis is a cold weather disease, evidenced by the symptom of dysentery (above). An infection by N. ceranae is generally without symptoms—the older bees simply “disappear.”" This sentence makes me wonder. Could N. ceranae be the cause of all/many of the cases of absconding we hear about on this forum?


One of my hives was tested for this and had a 6 million spore count; was n. cerana. zThis hive was very big, three deeps plus supers. I had no idea that it was sick because of the size. A bear took it out, demolished the hive and frames everywhere! But for some reason I thought that n. cerana was better in the winter and worse in the warmer weather.


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## SAS (Sep 4, 2015)

Cloverdale,

Thank you for sharing that! I really appreciate it!


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## Rww930 (Mar 14, 2016)

So is yellow poop here and there normal?


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## Cloverdale (Mar 26, 2012)

Yes it is!


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