# Swarm Trap Size Opinions Wanted.



## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Don't make a special trap. Just use two mediums. Use some recycled plywood for the top and bottom. 
I made entrance bottoms like this out of waste plywood.


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## Josiah Garber (May 22, 2013)

How would you attach the two mediums


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Ratchet strap, nylon straps, hive staples, metal connectors, rope, string, duct tape, diagonal drive screws, plumbers tape, wood strips....


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## Josiah Garber (May 22, 2013)

Perfect. Also I really like the entrance. I won't have to put a hole in my mediums.


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## Josiah Garber (May 22, 2013)

Do you think a 1 medium trap would have a much lower success rate? I'm just thinking about weight.


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## Kenww (Apr 14, 2013)

A lot of people seem to use 5 frame deeps. I am planning to try some next year. I believe an 8 frame medium would be about the same size. This year I used 10 frame mediums with a base mAde from 1x3s screwed to a plywood bottom to increase the volume. I drilled the hole in the base. It worked. I used hive staples. Didnt like them too much. Think ill use thin plywood strips stapled on. I'm going to make some traps like Odfrank's too.

Odfrank do you use screws through the bottom of the bottom boards?


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## Kenww (Apr 14, 2013)

Josiah, you asked about success rates. It would be interesting if people would post their rates. I caught one out of 7, but I was late getting them out. They were mostly 40 liter. The one that worked was 40 about.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

>Do you think a 1 medium trap would have a much lower success rate? I'm just thinking about weight.

I tried eight frame medium depth in wineboxes and felt I had a lower rate. But I had less black comb in them also which might have been the factor. I am very swarmtrap weight conscious also. The swarm will only weight three or four pounds at the beginning so the weight will not be too much. Add beveled cleats as shown on my boxes. That is what makes them easy to carry. Every box I own has them. 

>Odfrank do you use screws through the bottom of the bottom boards?

On the ones I made with entrance disks I did screw them on because I mean for them to be permanent swarm traps. On the ones with slotted plywood I strapped them with nylon Avi Strap.


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## bevy's honeybees (Apr 21, 2011)

I have only had one swarm move into a 10 frame medium in the 2 years I've been putting out bait boxes, much better luck with 5 frame deeps. I'd like to have some move into medium so I can get frames drawn out but they go for the nuk instead. 

In spring I got 3 swarms in nuks at the same site where I now have a 10 frame medium set up all month with nothing. Got 2 swarms in nuks in my backyard this month, not the same site as medium.


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## Josiah Garber (May 22, 2013)

bevy's honeybees said:


> I have only had one swarm move into a 10 frame medium in the 2 years I've been putting out bait boxes, much better luck with 5 frame deeps. I'd like to have some move into medium so I can get frames drawn out but they go for the nuk instead.
> 
> In spring I got 3 swarms in nuks at the same site where I now have a 10 frame medium set up all month with nothing. Got 2 swarms in nuks in my backyard this month, not the same site as medium.


Isn't a 10 frame medium similar in volume to a 5 frame nuc?


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## Josiah Garber (May 22, 2013)

bevy's honeybees said:


> I have only had one swarm move into a 10 frame medium in the 2 years I've been putting out bait boxes, much better luck with 5 frame deeps. I'd like to have some move into medium so I can get frames drawn out but they go for the nuk instead.
> 
> In spring I got 3 swarms in nuks at the same site where I now have a 10 frame medium set up all month with nothing. Got 2 swarms in nuks in my backyard this month, not the same site as medium.


Is a 10 frame medium close in volume to a 5 frame nuc?


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## TooFarGone (Aug 19, 2012)

According to my reading (Michael Bush), the volume of an 8 frame medium is very similar to a 5 frame deep nuc. I just assume that it takes two 8 frame mediums to equal the brood area of a 10 frame deep box. After building a bunch of 8 frame mediums, I believe that this is a good number.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

>Isn't a 10 frame medium similar in volume to a 5 frame nuc?

Maybe it is the size of the comb and height of the box that makes a five frame deep nuc box more attractive. They work well for me.


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## Paul McCarty (Mar 30, 2011)

For catching swarms I use an old rotten 10 frame that has had bees in it for 15 years. Very good for catching stray swarms. Smells like bees. They love the thing, but it is rotten and nasty.

For trapping out, I use a special built trap, similar to a hogan swarm harvester, that holds 14 frames. Usually the bees around here fill every inch of it. Had a cluster in it once that was bigger than a medicine ball. Pretty normal really. It has a pretty good success rate too. I would say I get 3 out of 4 hives. The ones I can't get are the ones I cannot get to seal.


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## Cascade Hunter (Sep 22, 2013)

If I'm using old eight frame brood boxes for traps, should I put eight frames and foundation/comb in the box or less?


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## jadebees (May 9, 2013)

As you know, (or you would not have mentioned it) 40 liters is about the "sweet spot" for lure size. I have used an 8 frame deep, I think they are about 30 liters, and done fairly well. But, to your question! I currently use Warre boxes, 2 in a stack, for a swarm lure. Thats about 42 liters, and that setup will catch 2 to 3 swarms,for each swarm caught in single Warre boxes. Some areas nearly all are in the larger setups. A single is about 21 liters. There is a preference. The most important thing is to have a quality swarm lure, (synthetic pheromone). And, used boxes catch much better. The ratio is at least 3 to 1. These things are more important than old comb in the swarm lure. I put in good comb, still clean, if I have it. If you put a used box with a new, the catch rate is more like old boxes. I'd use 2 mediums. With at least 1 of them a used box. It seems they have an instinct to look to the future size of the colony.


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## Josiah Garber (May 22, 2013)

jadebees said:


> As you know, (or you would not have mentioned it) 40 liters is about the "sweet spot" for lure size. I have used an 8 frame deep, I think they are about 30 liters, and done fairly well. But, to your question! I currently use Warre boxes, 2 in a stack, for a swarm lure. Thats about 42 liters, and that setup will catch 2 to 3 swarms,for each swarm caught in single Warre boxes. Some areas nearly all are in the larger setups. A single is about 21 liters. There is a preference. The most important thing is to have a quality swarm lure, (synthetic pheromone). And, used boxes catch much better. The ratio is at least 3 to 1. These things are more important than old comb in the swarm lure. I put in good comb, still clean, if I have it. If you put a used box with a new, the catch rate is more like old boxes. I'd use 2 mediums. With at least 1 of them a used box. It seems they have an instinct to look to the future size of the colony.


Exactly what I was looking for. I think I'll go with the 40 liter traps. I just figured if the success rate is close with a 20 or 30 liter I would save the effort and build smaller traps.


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## brooksbeefarm (Apr 13, 2008)

I use a 10 frame deep ( that is on it's last leg) 3 or 4 old dark drawn comb frames in the middle and the rest foundation (wax). The bottom board is stapled to the hive, i make a screen with a wood frame that will cover the top of the hive and screw it to the top of the hive and put the lid over it. I like to keep it 8 ft. to 10 ft. off the ground (usually in a tree) i then put a cotton ball in the front of the hive with a few drops of lemongrass oil on it,i keep a board or screen that will cover the entrance close by, so when i catch a swarm, all i have to do is put a closer over the entrance and move it.:thumbsup:If you use a swarm box smaller than a 8 or 10 frame deep or 2 med. boxes, you take a chance of a big swarm to obscound within two or three days. I've had it happen when i used 5 frame deep nuc boxes.JMHO


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## BGhoney (Sep 26, 2007)

I always fill the box with frames, If it takes you 1 week or 2 months to get back to it, you don't have a mess. I made traps out of 4 gallon fiber pots, what a pain, they work great until bees move in.


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## PAHunter62 (Jan 26, 2011)

Josiah -

Another option is to make a tray to attach to the under side of the Medium super to get the internal volume you are looking for. I used this online volume calculator to determine I needed about 4 additional inches onto a medium 8 frame super to hit an internal volume of around 40 liters (Use the top one, volume of a box):

http://dmplastics.ca/volume_calculator.htm


Here is a picture of a swarm moving into one of my traps. 









I caught nine swarms this season, all but one was in an 8 frame medium super with a 4 inch tray attached to the bottom.

Good Luck.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

I continue to suggest not making custom swarm traps, just use your normal brood chambers. The bees are not calculating 40 liters. Just use a second medium. No time, materials or money wasted.


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## PAHunter62 (Jan 26, 2011)

Understood OD. I had scrap wood laying around and all the trays cost me was some time. I'm a small hobby beekeeper and do not have tons of extra equipment laying around. For me, building some trays seemed like a better option than stacking two mediums - allowed me to double the number of traps deployed and attract larger swarms. I'm using all 8 frame medium equipment - no deeps at all. Was just relaying an option that worked well for me. That being said, I probably will make up a few using 3/4 inch ply with entrance dado cut into the bottom for next spring as you have shown.


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## laketrout (Mar 5, 2013)

Have the guys in the PA. area seen much wax moth problems , it seems like there is alot of mixed ideas on using old comb to help lure in swarms , seems like it would attract the bee's more but not if it is invested with wax moth .


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## PAHunter62 (Jan 26, 2011)

I spray my dark brood bait comb with BtA (Bacillus thuringiensis aizawai) to protect against wax moth damage.

I bought mine from Sundance in the for sale forum a couple years ago, but he does not seem to be offering it anymore.

Where to get the powder, and what you are looking for was recently discussed towards the bottom of this thread -

http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...BT-for-wax-moth-control&p=1059696#post1059696

You will find a link to Amazon - Michael Bush indicated that it was available around Christmas, but is showing out of stock now. Good to have on hand for storage of extracted frames over the winter too.

PAHunter62


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

No experience other than our bee school.

The recommendations so far: Always have a couple of nuc boxes so you can capture swarms.

Followed shortly with the exchange between one of the old-timers and the instructor: "Have you ever actually seen bees go into a trap hive?" "Ah, no."

Evidently the most successful piece of equipment is a 5-gallon plastic bucket. Whatever woodenware you like after that point. I'm told this is great fun.


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## laketrout (Mar 5, 2013)

PA hunter , with your medium and the tray are you using medium or deep frames , I like the idea because you can get away with alot less frames .


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