# Concerned about my hive



## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

Looks like it may be wax moth feces. Not sure what can be done at this time of year and temps. The bees in cluster should be ok, but the moths are where the bees can't cover the comb. You won't see webbing so much on the bottom board, the webbing is more in the comb where bees are not covering it. Maybe someone else will chime in with ideas of action, if any, to take.

The wax moths are after protein contained in the cells of older brood comb, the pupa casings, and any stored pollen in cells. Hopefully they are just in the bottom box and the bees are policing the top box to keep them at bay.


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## Dwain Jansen (Jul 4, 2015)

Thanks. Yes, I know the webbing would be in the comb. Didnt see any in the lower box as I looked up through the SBB. Was really thinking they would be good through the winter...now I am worried...but this will also bring me experience...and knowledge...You all are a wonderful group on here. Cannot tell you how much I appreciate everyones input to the things I have posted. Merry Christmas and/or Happy Holidays to all.


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

I've never had a hive succumb to wax moths, and with it being this time of year, I'm sorry I have no advice. Hopefully the bees will stay strong and make it to spring, or to a warmer weather day when you can do a real inspection and see what's up.


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

I would be surprised to see any evidence of wax moths this time of year, since it's been below freezing a couple times and all the adult moths are gone. Anything is possible with this warmth, though, I guess. Don't forget that wax moths will lay eggs in the junk on the sticky board, too. Most often the larvae don't mature, but they will leave droppings.

How heavy is your hive? Should be impossible to lift the rear with one hand this time of year.

Are the bee flying on warm days?

I lost my first hive because I stopped feeding it way too early, and they didn't have enough stores to thrive in the spring, and then wax moths got into all the pollen they were hauling in -- it was a warm winter like this one and the maple trees bloomed early and heavy. I put a candy board on, but they were still too small to manage all that empty comb and I didn't move them to a nuc soon enough.

We will be getting some cold (day temps near freezing or colder) days next month, and that will take care of any wax moth larvae you may have in the hive at the moment, but be prepared to remove that bottom deep if you don't have a large number of bees in late Feb or early March and store it wax moth free (frozen or with Paramoth) until the hive is full of bees, then air it out and put it on top of the deep you left. That way the bees can keep pests under control.

Peter


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## Dwain Jansen (Jul 4, 2015)

Well, to me it looks like (as I look through SBB) there is nothing left in the lower box...no brood, no honey...nothing. All the bees are in the second box, which is a medium box. I do have a candyboard on there. I do wonder if I should just take the bottom box off and overwinter them in the medium? The bees are flying on warm days, and were bringing in some pollen even a few days ago. I think if they are not using the bottom box, I should get rid of it.


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

How heavy is your hive? That's the crucial question! It's OK (IMO) to leave the bottom box in place even if you knew for certain there were no stores in it (and I bet there are still stores which you just can't see). Space below the bees is less (or no) problem for the bees, compared to empty space above the bees.

I think the little dark specs are moth poops, but I think they pose no issues for your bees at this time of year. When was the last time you scraped and cleaned the board? You might do that and see what's going on in a few days from here on out.

You may need to be prepared to continue feeding (with granulated or solid sugar) through the whole winter. There are often only irregular times when you can check and replenish the stores so make sure to have them on hand to take advantage of any opportunity. It's unlike summer when you can check and then organize supplies and get them on later - often the day you can check is the only day for some period afterwards. 

In my first year when I had smallish numbers of bees in one colony (totally operator error and first-year cluelessness) I made sure that I had well insulated hives to lower the energy cost to the bees to keep warm. And I made Lauri Miller's sugar bricks to make sure they had enough chow, too. 

What's you mite status? There's still time for one last oxalic acid treatment (dribble or vaporization, of you have the proper equipment.)

But total hive weight is the big deal at this point. Your hive should feel heavy when you lift it with one hand. (And actual weight is even better to know, of course.) There are ways of getting that - but today you can go out and check that weight w/o disturbing the bees just by lifting the one of the ends. People lift the back end to avoid exciting the bees on the front.

You should have mouse guards and a much-reduced entrance, too.

Enj.


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## Dwain Jansen (Jul 4, 2015)

I am 4 hours away from the hive now through Sunday. I didnt weigh or pickup back of hive...will do that. Also, put that board back in the bottom, and will check it Monday. I do have the candyboard, and realize that they may go through it before winter is up, and I may need to add more food at some point. As to mites, I did use the dribbke method about 3 months ago...chose that method because it was too cold for any of the strips. I do plan on buying a vaporizer in the next month. As a newbie, I do have other questions, and I will ask them in a differrent group when I compile that list. But I understand OAV can be done as long as it is 2 degrees above freezing. I do have 1/2 inch hardware screen covering the opening. I also now have read that the mite tray can be a place for moths to hideout. So, considered taking it out when I get back. Not sure what I am going to do with that yet. Just trying to get to the bottom of this wax moth issue...if it even is much of an issue at this point. Yesterday it was 50degrees and breezy and I know the bees were not flying...they were clustered. So, being my first winter, I will have to learn at what temps I can do what.


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

Ok, I'm glad you realize that you may need to augment the candy board as the season progresses. Until your bees are brooding again plain sugar (brisks or granulated) is what they need. Dadant makes a high-sugar, very low protein winter patty (different from a pollen sub patty) which is another option. But sugar if you can manage it is better, IMO, at least until February, or so. (That's for up here in northern NY - your winter probably travels by faster.) Later on, mid-March up here you can add pollen sub patties once they can expect to fly out to poop pretty regularly. Otherwise pollen sub may give them dysentery, which you definitely don't want to do! Pollen builds early, bigger broods, which is something you may not want to do.

Now as far as dribbling - if you did it three months ago it may not have been completely effective as undoubtedly - or at least hopefully - you still had lots of brood at that time. And OA, in both forms, doesn't affect mites safe under the cappings, which can be half, or more ,of the total number in the hive. Multiple dribbles would be needed to catch the mites cycling in and out, but there are some safety (for the bees ) issues in doing repeated dribbles.

On the other hand, OAV can be repeated, and indeed _must be repeated_ in a series if you have brood, to clear out the mites. (Except of course at this time of year when the hive is broodless for several weeks.) I don't do OA dribble but I have read that some people do repeat it at this time of year, even having treated once before. I would read on Randy Oliver's website about that as I think the recommendations are changing. If you are thinking of doing another OA dribble, I would do it now rather than later on when they will have started new brood so you get the maximum effectiveness for the trouble and biological cost to the bees.

I was flat-out flabbergasted in my first winter when I saw the first signs of brood (dropped fresh wax flakes that glint on the sticky boards) in the last week of January. That's a couple of months before flight-weather resumes again here. In St. Louis it will be much earlier. To give you some perspective: where I am the earliest daffodils only start blooming in the second week of April and we plant tomatoes after Memorial Day. 

Except for right now when you can't get in the hives, I would always follow up any treatment with sugar rolls a few weeks afterward to verify the treatment's efficacy. I think doing sugar rolls once a month is not too many. If you have more than one hive, then do just one every month, with weekly sticky board counts on both.

You will not likely be getting new wax moths (nor would any wax moth pupae be likely to emerge from their crevices in winter temps .) So don't worry about that, for now. I would leave the sticky board tray in as a winterization technique and not worry about any wax moths creeping into the hive. They are not cold-hardly as adults.

On a really warm day (Christmas Eve it was a record-setting 72 F here north of Albany, NY) the bees will pour out for cleansing flights, and maybe because they are bored. In 50 F with a cold wind they will stay inside, but mine will fly a calm sunny day at colder temps - sometimes even too cold for their flight muscles to function for long.

If you need to check or replenish the food - and it is urgent because of subsequent colder temps - you can open the hive on a windless day even down into the 30s. Just plan your work carefully and have everything right at hand so the open time is minimal. (I sometimes even rehearse exactly what I'm planning before even cracking the hive. That helps me make sure I've got everything I need. Sounds dopey, but it has saved me from flubbing things occasionally. I work alone and the bees have the good manners not laugh.)

The other thing you should study and start to think about is what will be your anti-swarming tactics coming out of your first winter/second spring. I think that's the hardest management problem and it came as a great shock to me as I was focused on winter survival as the worst test of my (meager, newbie) skills. There's lots to consider over the month or so. (And lots of info here on BeeSource.)

But heft those hives on Sunday and make plans to fill 'em up, again, if needed. And consider whether you should do an OA dribble in the next week while your bees are still broodless. Up here people like to do it when it's below freezing so the bees stay put during the operation. I've never tried it as I have OAV equipment and will be doing that, instead. (If you buy a vaporizer, please be sure to budget for the proper mask -with acid gas cartridges - and protective goggles for yourself. That's essential, in my view. You can get the right mask on Amazon for less than $40.)

Enj.


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## Dwain Jansen (Jul 4, 2015)

Thanks enjambres for the long post with things for me to consider. I will respond in more detail tomorrow evening or sometime Monday. Been busy with out of town festivities and flooding issues. My life should return to a little more normal in a day or two. Thanks to all who have responded! Much appreciated.


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## Dwain Jansen (Jul 4, 2015)

Also, I will be planning to buy an OA vaporizer soon...any recommendations from anyone, just let me know. And yes, will need a decent mask. Will have to read up on the recommendations. I know they are broodless now, and do know now is a prime time to treat them with OA.


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## laketrout (Mar 5, 2013)

Like already posted , a good oav treatment right now could save your bee's , I would get that set up now rather than later .


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## fieldsofnaturalhoney (Feb 29, 2012)

I am not certain those are wax moth feces, looks to big & firm in picture. I do see mites, sugar crumbs, & wax particles.


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## Dwain Jansen (Jul 4, 2015)

Well, maybe I will be lucky and not have wax moths. I got to do some research on vaporizers and get one soon. If anyone has recommendations, let me know. Want to order one tuesday morning at the latest. Just got back in town 20 min ago.


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## mcon672 (Mar 5, 2015)

Dwain Jansen said:


> Well, maybe I will be lucky and not have wax moths. I got to do some research on vaporizers and get one soon. If anyone has recommendations, let me know. Want to order one tuesday morning at the latest. Just got back in town 20 min ago.


I ordered the Varrox from snl on here. Works good, we'll made. I only own the one so nothing to compare it to but no complaints. Wasn't the cheapest but often the cheapest ends up costing the most after you buy the cheapest and then the one you should have got in the first place after you realize the cheapest doesn't work as well as it should.


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