# Commercial Hive Maintenance



## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Sorry no simple answers to that one, ask 100 guys and get 200 answers. A range? from 50 to 250 per hive.


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## concrete-bees (Jun 20, 2009)

each hive is different - one year it may need nothing - next yeat might just need a $5 lid. some years you need to replace frames - at $2 each times 10 per box - thats $20 

some years you need new bees - that $75 to do - 

but on a commerical level - you think in the thousands - like for instance 
if all of your bottom boards need replaces - and they are $10 each - well thats $10,000 that year - but they should last 10 years. 
if you have to treat each hive for mites - and treatments run $20 per hive - 
thats $20,000 a year 

if you loose all of your bees and need new bees - at $50 per package thats $50,000 lossed there 

so to help with your paper - i just think of things in the thousands - 
most commercial keepers keep 5,000 or more hives 
so to maintain a hive, it costs more when you have more (unless you get bulk deals)


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## rainesridgefarm (Sep 4, 2001)

Last year my cost per hive was $32.75. I keep track of everything and when it comes tax time you know these beekeepers know what it costs per hive. They give you a range but the question is what did it cost them Last year. You should also clarify operating expense vs capital expense. My number is operating expense.


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## wabeeman (Dec 3, 2010)

Google "National Honey Report". The first option on the list is a PDF version of the latest report. Included in the report is a survey, conducted by Mike Burgett of Oregon State U., of Pacific Northwest Beekeepers. Dr. Burgett has been collecting data on commercial beeks for 25 years. Very interesting guy to talk to. Scroll down to the report, it starts on about page 13 or 14. Included in the survey is one answer to your question.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Yeah, I read it. $135.00 per colony per year. If I remember correctly. They must be calculating things in a different fashion than rainse.

I sell all of my own honey in jars and I try to keep enuf hives to produce the honey I need. I also do apple pollination. So, how do I figure what it costs to maintain a colony of bees? Or to produce a pound of honey? Aren't some of the expense sources the same?

Maybe I need a basic course in Agreicultural Accounting.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

You can look at the basic operating costs, or you can look at the whole operational cost of the business. My cost per hive is somewhere around the $100-$120 mark. Remember that before debt is seviced,


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

>>I sell all of my own honey in jars and I try to keep enuf hives to produce the honey I need. I also do apple pollination. So, how do I figure what it costs to maintain a colony of bees? Or to produce a pound of honey? Aren't some of the expense sources the same?

I read it as all costs over all colonies. But if I understand you question right, I agree. Cost per hive change depending on what your using the hives for.


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## wabeeman (Dec 3, 2010)

Don't short yourself on what it costs to maintain colonies. Replacement bees, replacement woodenware, meds, feed, automobile expense, office expense, building maintenance/repair, depreciable assets, hired labor, essentially everything that costs you more than it would if you had no bees what-so-ever. Even your time. As a sideliner I count my time just as I would for my regular work cause that's what I'd be doing if I didn't have bees. It all goes into the equation if you're being honest and fair. I think if more beeks did this we'd see a more unified front that honey prices and pollination fees could/should be higher. I know beeks who don't count the cost of nucs or dinks in their equation because they didn't actually produce anything or rent. BUT they still cost you money to produce/maintain. One guy in particular I know was famous for this. His per colony costs were always lower than anyone elses. Made him look like a beekeeping wonder at the local mtgs. He never counted a colony as a colony until it got into its second deep. But those nucs, pkgs and dinks cost every bit as much up to that point.

So that's the cost per colony for pollination. What I do to figure the cost of honey production is take the cost of colony maintenance and subtract income from pollination rental. Then you have to figure in extracting expenses to get a bulk cost of production. For those of us direct marketing there are more costs - packaging, labeling, advertising, bottling equip and facility, labor, etc., that must be factored in to get production cost per # of honey. If you use a computer accounting program take a little time to set up your chart of accounts, and take the time to accurately input data. Once that's done it's easy to see exactly what your costs are from almost any angle.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

So, if I take all the expenses that come from transporting bees souith, feeding them, spending time away from home splitting them in the spring and then going north w/ 400 cols and 100 nucs, but only using 336 in pollinating apples do all of those expenses go to the polllinating cols or to all the cols? How does honey production get figured then?


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## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

As a business- All expenses(bees, gas, electricity, advertising, maintenance, insurance, meds, feed, replacement boxes, foundation, queens, etc. etc.) paid out for the year divided by the # of colonies alive in the spring at the beginning of the season. Just for honey production in WI I'm running a little under $100 per hive. That's no trucking to CA and back. Just when the bees are in WI and the income they produce in WI.


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## chillardbee (May 26, 2005)

notice how no one is really telling ya what there expences are? maybe they can PM you what their average Expences were, then take those numbers and average them and then you will at least have an average over all of the expences/hive. I've always just looked at everything from gas to labor, feeds and meds, repairs and maintanence, ect. anything that went out for the bees that year wether directly or indirectly. i divide that by the number of hives i have. If there's a difference in the amount of hives that you had in the spring to that wich is going into winter i do the average on that to. example 120 in spring + 150 in fall / 2 = 135 then Expences / 135 = a per hive expences, which is usually 10% above what you made  JK.


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## TSADAM13 (Jan 19, 2011)

wabeeman said:


> Google "National Honey Report". The first option on the list is a PDF version of the latest report. Included in the report is a survey, conducted by Mike Burgett of Oregon State U., of Pacific Northwest Beekeepers. Dr. Burgett has been collecting data on commercial beeks for 25 years. Very interesting guy to talk to. Scroll down to the report, it starts on about page 13 or 14. Included in the survey is one answer to your question.



@WAbeeman, thanks. That report identified some great numbers and there is now a source I can ref. Thanks again! :thumbsup:


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

When I make up budgets for our cattle operation, we divide the expenses between all the enterprises within the cattle operation. I understand what your saying Mark. Your bring in money from more than one source.
You will then have to run a little more elaborate budget and start splitting cost. Otherwise your cost and revenues will not reflect the areas your making money and not.


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## svbeeco (Feb 12, 2010)

For excellent information concerning your question, go to Project ApisM at http://projectapism.org/content/view/12/26/

Select "News" from the menu bar. 
Select "UC Apiaries News" from the tan box on the right hand side.
Select Jan/Feb 2010
Scroll down to page 3 and find your answer.


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## TSADAM13 (Jan 19, 2011)

Thanks, that information falls almost in in line with the govt report, also a west coast orientated report. Professer Michael Burgett from OU in Eugne sampled 18 apiaries, and your report sampled 16. They came to nearly identical answers... 150-160 a hive (average) That's great to have two sources. A lot of beekeepers on this board don't agree that it's that cheap. But everyone is different it seems.


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## svbeeco (Feb 12, 2010)

Can you provide a link to Professer Michael Burgett's study?


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

150-160 to maintain a hive?? That's insane, totally inaccurate and whoever is running up those expenses needs to re-think their management plan. I don't know how a person running those numbers can survive. 

My Maintenance for an average hive is as follows starting in the spring.

1:1 with EO's - $5 (spring feeding and treatment for mites and nosema)
Gas to move from holding yards to out yards - $.50 (per hive)
Gas for checking hives through the season and pulling supers - $2
Late summer requeening (bi-annual) $16 every two years or avg. $8 per yr.
Fall patties ($.62 x 3) = $1.86
Movement to holding yd. - $.50 
Transportation to Calf. (there and back) $16 per hive.
Brokers fee (Calf. almonds) - $6
Frame rotation (3 frames per hive per yr @.70 ea) $2.10

Total for the year $41.96 FOR MAINTENANCE

Avg crop per hive 65 lbs 
Avg pollination fee $120


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## TSADAM13 (Jan 19, 2011)

alpha6 said:


> 150-160 to maintain a hive?? Avg crop per hive 65 lbs
> Avg pollination fee $120


Alpha 6, THANK YOU very much!!! Finally someone willing to put up numbers show facts. You are my Hero, Sir. I myself thought 150-160 was high when pollination won't even cover that cost. What business man would accept that? I don't know. I know some in the trucking industry will accept rates lower then what it costs to ship things just for the work. The trucking industry is well fragmented too so people are continually undercutting others, much like the Bee Business. Thanks again.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Add to that your yearly cost to own a truck or two or 3, the yearly cost of your extracting building and high priced stainless equipment. 

Then when half your bees die one year sitting in the Ca holding yard ,you still have all the expense but half the hives. Now you have to re-stock at additional cost. And if its another drought year you are so:ws


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## Nick Noyes (Apr 28, 2005)

That is a really hefty profit. $120(pol.) + $82(honey) - $42(expense)=$160(profit) Per hive
Now here is the fun part. $160(profit) x 33% (income tax) = $52.80 (tax) Per hive
This means you paid $10.80 more per hive in income tax than it costs to run said hive. Could this be true?

So if you have 1,000 hives. 
Income $202,000
Expense $42,000
Income Tax $52,800
Beekeeepers money to spend as he wishes. $107,200 This would be money used to buy yachts and such.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

you cant factor income tax as a business expense. Its not a cost of doing business, its not a tax deduction. Its paid out determining the performance of the business. And its adjusted at tax time.


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## Nick Noyes (Apr 28, 2005)

I wasn't trying to.
I am saying there might be some expense's that were left out before one pays taxes on the income side.


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## TSADAM13 (Jan 19, 2011)

Maybe the guy doesnt have trucks to pay for, or an extraction building, or tanks, or any of that. Maybe he has no employees, maybe, he's a small apiary... 

From the very begining, on this thread, I was told. Ask 100 guys, you will get 200 answers, and dang that was right on. 

So Nick, I know you won't answer the question, but what are your cost for operation/maintenance? How much do you make profit per hive?

If you had 1000 hives (hypothetically) what would your profit or loss be?


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

>>Maybe the guy doesnt have trucks to pay for, or an extraction building, or tanks, or any of that<<


Then its not a business its a hobby,lol.


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## TSADAM13 (Jan 19, 2011)

Haha, true, at that point you don't have A LOT to worry about. But I bet he has a few hundred hives and has to worry about a lot of the same things you do, maybe just not to the scale you do. 

So, Loggermike, I posed the same question to NN, if you have 1000 under the care of LoggerMike Apiaries, (hypothetically) doing operations the way you do it, and it sounds like you're a business, what would your balance sheet look when it comes to maint. costs? Would you be profitable with 1K hives?


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## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

You can't run a business on just maintenance expences. My package cost me over $40K for 2011 up 15% from 2010. Yes costly but just the price of staying in business. Now honey price is going up too. One off sets the other. Everyone numbers will differ. from how they run there business. I like working in nice buildings and nice truck. That all comes with a price.
I'm only a honey producer. My biggest expense each year is for packages, queens, feed, and yes fuel for the truck. Hive equipment has to repaired or replace here and there too.

800+ hives , 7 years avg. 127 lb. per hive.


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## TSADAM13 (Jan 19, 2011)

HH, 

Thanks for the response, I really appreciate it, in your operation, do you have hired help? Are they mostly year round help? I know there are so many "averages" out there and I can see they are all starting to average is NOTHING. 

What would one consider a commercial hive? I have heard 5K hives and up is commercial, also heard 2K... not sure. So what do people IN the undustry consider a "Commercial Apiary" to be in terms of size... 

Which brings me to my next question, If there are X amount of commercial apiaries in the US, where in the heck do you guys find your hired help if you have/want to hire? just ads? Monster.com? "Migrants?" What does an associate technician get paid an hour if they are new, or what about 10+ years of exp?


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

I have never been comfortable giving out too many specifics of my finances. Maybe its just the way i was raised .I am always being asked by some gov agency to reveal this info.for statistical purposes. Other than the IRS, i tend to blow them off!

But I have never lost a penny on bees and always show a profit.That might change this year, cause I am going to have to replace some antique inefficient equipment.

Guess that wasn't much help to your project .


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## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

TSADAM13, I'm a second generation honey producer. In the 30+ years in the business I never new that there was a set # of hive for a classification. Must be something new. In what book or web site can I find these # for classification. Need more facts. 
I do a lot of the work myself. Mostly family business. I only produce 50-80 ton a year, how many labors do you need?

Loggermike, I started building new equipment last year. Most the equipment in my operation is retired beekeeper buy outs, or equipment I built when I was a kid. I good coat of paint goes a long way, but years in the weather takes it toll.
Most boxes last me 30-40 years if I keep paint on them. :thumbsup:


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## wabeeman (Dec 3, 2010)

Nick Noyes said:


> I am saying there might be some expense's that were left out before one pays taxes on the income side.


Starting off with any business you have an office space. Maybe even a building.
You have office expenses. Computer, software, paper, pens, adding machine, etc.
Advertising expense if you do any.
Legal and professional fees such as an accountant or attorney. The bigger the operation the more need there is for both. I'm just a puny sideliner and I wouldn't be without either...EVER!
Are there any special licenses you need to conduct business.
How about utilities. Electric, water, phone line, fax line, cell phone, internet connection, garbage collection.
Now on to the bees.
You have woodenware. Boxes, frames,foundation, lids, bb's. Past the initial investment there is yearly repair/replacement costs.
You need bees. Again, past the initial investment there are yearly maintenance expenses. 30% loss per year is not uncommon today, so there's package or nuc expense...at least requeening.
Don't forget to feed them. Sugar, protein supplement, essential oils.
You'll also likely medicate for the miriad problems.
If you're a commercial pollinator you have at least a truck and a way to load bees (I forgot pallets under the woodware category). You probably have a forklift. There's sooo much more to vehicle expense than just fuel. Tires, oil change, repairs and how about vehicle insurance. Not just for your truck but any vehicle used in the business.
Speaking of insurance, how about liability insurance...ca-ching!
Supplies. Extra veils, hive tools, paint for the boxes, duct tape, etc.
Now seems a good time for a math lesson. Say a roll of duct tape costs $4. Say you're in the 25% tax bracket. By taking that roll of duct tape as an expense you've effectively reduced the price by 25%. 
If you are a beek of any size larger than hobbyist you have a building/storage shed of some sort. There are maintenance/repair costs associated with that whether you do a little every year or depreciate a larger expense (like a new roof for example). I'm like Honey Householder...I like working in a nice building and driving a nice truck and, yes, it does cost more, but if I'm happy I've found I do a much better job of caring for the girls (and that's what this is all about, isn't it??).
And don't forget depreciation on all this stuff.
That about covers it for a pollinator, I'm sure others will chime in if I missed something. So far ALL of the above counts toward year end hive maintenance costs (if you didn't have bees you wouldn't need any of this stuff...that's why it ALL counts). I do all this at years end since I have to figure all this out for the IRS anyhow. To figure cost/hive you simply divide this number by the number of hives you have at that period of time. There is no averaging for how many you had during the year, that skews your numbers, because presumably everything you've done and all the money you've spent up until that point, is what has led to the number of colonies you have alive at that point in time. That's your maintenance cost per colony.

For honey producers you'll take all of the above and add honey supers, trips to the bee yard to add/remove supers, fume boards, honey robber. You'll need a building to store all this stuff in before/after extracting. 
A honey house complete with all the high priced, stainless steel. Uncapper, sump, trays, extractor, pump(s), milk tank, 55 gal drums.
If you direct market you also have bottles, lids, labels and boxes (although this should classify under "Cost of Goods Sold"). You need a way to heat the honey before bottling and a bottling machine or, at least, a bottling tank.
To figure your honey production cost per # take all of this stuff (or the depreciation thereon) and add the figure from hive maintenance then subtract any income from pollination rental. That is your production cost per #.

Yes, it's a lot of work and, yes, it's a lot of money. You either put in the effort and keep the money in your pocket or don't and give it to the gummint to p**s away. I know which I chose. And, no, I won't reveal what my figures are. I & DW know, my accountant knows and the IRS knows. It's nobody else's business. But for WIW, I've had a construction business for 25 years that has never posted a loss and I've had sideline bee business for going on 13 years that only posted losses for the first 3 years where I was doubling in size each year. 

Phew! Sorry for the long post.:lookout:


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

All I can add is :thumbsup:. 
Oh and there is yard rent honey and permit fees for beeyards.


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

loggermike said:


> Add to that your yearly cost to own a truck or two or 3, the yearly cost of your extracting building and high priced stainless equipment.
> 
> Then when half your bees die one year sitting in the Ca holding yard ,you still have all the expense but half the hives. Now you have to re-stock at additional cost. And if its another drought year you are so:ws


I think you guys are missing the point..or I am. The question wasn't how much do you spend on your operation it was how much to maintain a hive. :scratch:


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## svbeeco (Feb 12, 2010)

I was only stating what is part of the U.C. Apiaries News, Jan/Feb 2010. I wonder if other costs are included. Does the list you provided include all of your costs to run your business? Where are the following costs accounted for in the per hive costs your listed? 

1. Cost of land (amortized)
2. Buildings: Storage, workshop, office
3. Trucks
4. Maintenance of trucks
5. Liability insurance
6. Workmans comp insurance
7. Land taxes
8. Government fees
9. Equipment replacement costs
10. Theft replacement costs
11. Facilities maintenance and repairs
12. Facilities surfacing, grading and drainage
13. Cost of bee placements
14. Conference fees and associated meals, travel and lodging
15. Donations to research
16. Professional memberships
17. Accounting services
18. Fines and tickets
19. Communication
20. Advertising

Add all of these to your list and see what your cost per hive really is!


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

I'm not an accountant (obviously). But where do you draw the line to seperate these expenses? Fixing your honey house or repairing your truck isn't strictly hive maintenance.But its money spent on the bee operation.


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## wabeeman (Dec 3, 2010)

svbeeco said:


> Add all of these to your list and see what your cost per hive really is!


Yes! Since your hives pay for all of this, all of this becomes part of cost per hive.


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## svbeeco (Feb 12, 2010)

Loggermike, 
You bring up a good point. There may be some misunderstanding in terms of semantics: "Total Operating Costs" and "Direct Hive Maintenance Costs". Hive maintenance costs are obviously only part of the total costs of a beekeeping operation.


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## Rob Renneker (Aug 7, 2006)

And whle we're discussing expenses, you must take into account the unexpected mishaps like the motor that blew up while trying to get bees moved, the barrels of honey that somehow got knocked over while being stacked, the bees that starved because for one reason or another couldn't get fed in time, and the kids that decided to vandalize a yard one night by driving a tractor through it (it can happen...) surprise expenses in the bee business can happen quickly it seems like.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Sure is quite underneath the bus.


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

wabeeman said:


> Yes! Since your hives pay for all of this, all of this becomes part of cost per hive.


No that is totally wrong unless you are just doing pollination. The majority of my income is derived from honey. My operating expenses span much more then just hive maintenence. Running the honey house, buying equipment, and everything else that goes into the "operation" of keeping bees is run off the income of the honey (and pollination) in my case. Just because I have more hives doesn't mean that my operating expenses are in perportion to those hives. My production of honey does directly affect the cost vs income ratio. The more honey each hive produces the less my cost of the operation, not the hives. That is a constant (sort of) The hives are no more a part of the operation than my bee truck or swinger. Without them I can't pull supers, move hives, etc. I don't figure the cost of maintaining my truck or the grease as part of the cost of maintaining a hive. That is an operational expense for the business. My hive numbers and everyone I know that runs a commercial operation move up and down each year. Trying to attribute all the costs assocated with the business with the number of hives won't work. I think some of you have missed the point.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Ah yes Rob, a trip down memory lane and you may have missed out on the load of bees (600 4 combers) that got smothered. I know the guy responsible for that fiasco because I saw him......in my mirror.


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## Rob Renneker (Aug 7, 2006)

jim lyon said:


> Ah yes Rob, a trip down memory lane and you may have missed out on the load of bees (600 4 combers) that got smothered. I know the guy responsible for that fiasco because I saw him......in my mirror.


Yes, I did miss out on that fiasco...wow. I can certainly see how easily that could happen, though. From an employee's point of view (although the situation is still sickening) it is at least a little comforting when the mistake isn't caused by myself for once, lol. I still remember vividly when I dumped that first barrel in the loading pit right in front of Charlie....


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## Nick Noyes (Apr 28, 2005)

I am confused. Wabeemans post #31 makes perfect sense to me.
In most commercial bee outfits the only thing that generates income is a LIVE hive of bees. Can we all agree on that?
You can make a profit with bees but you will earn it.


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

loggermike said:


> But where do you draw the line to seperate these expenses? Fixing your honey house or repairing your truck isn't strictly hive maintenance.But its money spent on the bee operation.


Not an accountant but i do alot of my own data entry. Losts of advice from my accountant as well.

Everything incurred in getting the bees to the hives, the honey pullled, extracted and shipped is an expense in hives. Some exceptions are capital purchases. Captial purchases could run you at a loss (immediatley)when you purchase them, however you take that loss over the long haul with depreciation. Some items which are capital asset purchases are things like computers, vehicles, supers, small engines, extraction equipment and building purchases. 
Some vehicles can qualify for 100% right offs each year and some only a percentage. Same with repairs and insurance.
For example, our farm truck is 100% right off, our rav is 80% right off, because i can prove i use it for farm work. As for the expenses, once you figure out your personal portion, the rest is easy. So for those who are looking to set up some sort of bookwork to track your expenses, some ideas are listed below. For those who already know what they are doing....feel free to skip!
So, for some expense categories:
-Seed if you seed fields for bees
-Pesticides use in fields
-Herbicides
-Vet---hive health related, treatments, EO's, mite treatments
-livestock expense---queen purchases, nuc or hive or package purchases
-Feed---syrup and sugar and pollen sub (all purchased)
-Fencing--- if you keep fences around your bees
-Custom work, if you hire someone to custom do something for you IE you take your honey to be extracted somewhere else.
-Rental expense---anything you need to rent, including bee yard rent. If the yard rent was say 20 pounds of honey you enter it into rent (the cost) and enter it into income ( the money you would have gained if they paid you for it. reciept or documentation required
-building repairs---honey house or outhouse storage buildings
-fuel and oil
-Machinery repairs---you can break this down into 1. extraction equipment, 2. vehicle maitenance, (divided into two categories 100% and what ever other percent if you run more than one car/truck) 3. small engine repairs
-Hive repairs
-Small tools---this includes, hive tools, suits, gloves, smoker, pails, straining cloth, containers for packaging, mop & pail for cleaning, spatulas if you use in the honey house, fume boards, light bulbs etc
-Insurance, vehicle, buildings, equipment, hives and bees
-Taxes on land and buildings
-Labor costs and the taxes which go along with it if you have or higher employees even if it is causal labor
-Travel and meals---only a portion is allowed
-Administration costs for example, a percentage of your home phone if it is also used for business, a portion of your electricity bill, office supplies, cleaning supplies, advertising, subscriptions to say ABJ. Then there are bee fee levies if you have it or membership fees.

Categories can be added, deleted or more detailed, all depends on what you want and how detailed you want to know where your money goes

If you do not have farm accounting software, excel can be an excellent help. A workbook in excell can have unlimited tabs or sheets and each tab can have a category. The opening sheet can have all your expenses listed on the first column, second column can have the amounts. In the excell spread sheets you can link information between sheets. So for example, If you have an expense in building repairs you record it into building repairs and the total at the end of the day will automatically be posted into your first sheet. So at any time you can see the totals without having to scroll through each tab.
Excell can also link workbooks. So one book can be linked to the other with a simple formula. So when changes are made in one book, they will automatically be made in the other book. Remember if you use computing software to back up your data to an external source incase of corruption.
If one does not want to have it computerized, column accounting books with say 16-30 columns can be just as effective. Top row is your expense titles, the first column is the description, second column is the total bill, third is taxes if you claim them, fourth is personal amount if some personal is on the bill, then scroll over to the proper column to enter the amount of the expense. If your bill has both a vet expense and a small tool, and say a repair, an entry is placed in each column for the appropriate amount. Then add up all colums at the bottom for totals....easy as pie.


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## svbeeco (Feb 12, 2010)

Where'd that guy go that asked the question in the first place!!


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## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

svbeeco said:


> Where'd that guy go that asked the question in the first place!!


To many facts and numbers for his taste. Looking to give him your 2 cents or what? He sounds like he is a beecounter. He wants numbers that work out for every operation to work out the same. Not going to happien!!!


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Actually you all may be impressed w/ what he is busy doing. If you knew, you might give him more of a break and some modicum of respect. But I will let him tell you, if he thinks it's right. Trust me, when he isn't here, he's doing something important.


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## TSADAM13 (Jan 19, 2011)

Hey Guys,

Nope, definitely not counting bees, I promise. I read each and every post. I know I really "kick the hornets" when I post entries because you guys have your own ideas of what I seek the info for. So I stay quiet unless I have something to add. Been over that plenty, you know why I am asking. I was at class just now. 

I am going to Central Texas College at a "satellite" facility, its 7:35PM where I am right now, Sun is ALL the way down and dang its cold, just got back from the dining facility, had ripped tortilla sandwich, with frozen lettuce and tomatoes, really sweet tomato soup (too sweet) and a bottle of “Bonaqua Moss Water”… haha, that’s way we call it since we don’t know to actually pronounce the words on the bottle, sounds like jail. But no, it's like Jail, but not Jail. Class got out at 6:30PM and now I'm back at work, looking at beesource.com reading these posts so I can update my notes for my report. 

Probably at about 9PM I'll get off work and head to my room where I go back to looking at beesource.com, and then I will call my wife and mom and head to bed. I came in at 7:30 this morning. I was actually late today because I am sick, but it was my own doing, I wore myself out. I played in the “local” B-Ball tournament and luckily we took first seed into the championship game. Too bad our Micheal Jordan is leaving for good Sunday before the big game. You gotta stay fit and keep your mind rolling around here. It's about 15 degrees right now; I am about 5500 feet up in the air, just at the base of the Hindu Kush Mountain Ranage since you asked where I was… If you don't know where the Hindu Kush is, you can Google it. Here's a couple links in case you don't want to do that. 
http://www.strategypage.com/gallery/images/hindu_kush_mountains.jpg http://www.blackfive.net/photos/uncategorized/2007/04/04/39080.jpg 

Anyways, you all probably think I am a bee guy, back in the US "Counting Hives" but actually, I am at Bagram Airbase, Afghanistan. Here's a link to my facebook page too in case you wonder who I am. http://www.facebook.com/TopSecretAdam Ever wonder why my handle is TSADAM13? =TopSecretAdam/13 is my lucky roulette number, works every time, sometimes! If you look through my photos you'll see some of me at work and the Hindu Kush are In the background. My actual "work" you won't see, because I’d go to jail for posting pics of my actual work. 

It’s really nothing that fascinating anyways, if you have ever seen the movie “Hurt Locker” It’s a lot like that, except that movie had some “exaggerations” in it. Quite a few actually... I kind of do some CSI stuff with improvised explosive devices (IED’s) (certain special types) to help out the US Army. Nope, I don’t make or use them; I just help the Army eliminate them from being used against its soldiers. I have actually done work that I can say honestly saved some lives. I should post a pic on my facebook standing in front of an MRAP tomorrow with a sign that says “TSADAM13-Beesource.com” that would be good.

I joined the Army at 17 and went 10 days after graduation. Went into the Signal Corp, if you notice some of my other threads, they are kind of "techy" it's because I think the bee Industry is antique and could use a technology boost. Anyhow, I never got a chance to go to school. I went to Germany out of basic (the funest time of my life, wouldn’t waste it going to school haha), then got sent to Texas (Where I "live" now) Got sent to Iraq, still no time for school. Got out of the army at 24 and came directly back over to work for the Army as a "dirty contractor" in Iraq, and now Afghanistan. I make six figures for war, but at great sacrifice of my freedom with my life and family. Jim Lyon, you said I won't ever tell the story of a Beekeeper because I don't know the family functions you miss? I do, trust me. But I use my "time" off wisely. I go to school at CTC, they have a one room "campus" on base. 

I need to earn my degree here, or when I get back I will have 9 years of experience at War, and no degree, who would hire me when I tell them I can keep explosive devices from operating near them? Maybe the TSA but I am done working for the govt. I have been here nonstop since 2004 and I am now just 29, will be 32 when I leave here for good. So I need a Business Degree, to start a business, or buy one when I get back for good. I need to invest my money somewhere. Anyone got a bee farm to sell me? Haha… JK. The USDA has a program over actually, where they “cooperate” with local afghan farmers and show them how to use Bees to pollinate crops. It’s part of the “hearts and minds” campaign… maybe I can have both.

So this brings me to my paper... why am I digging so deep with you guys? Because everything I do, I want it to be correctly, illuminate the facts, and suggest provocative things based on the facts I find. Guess work gets no one far, you guys know that. I know that every day in my current life. I investigate explosive devices, how they kill our soldiers, how the enemy employed them, and how, in the future we can stop or mitigate it and keep our Joes safer. So it's my job, it's all I know to be EXACT.

Adam Allison
CJTF Paladin / CREW
APO, AE 09354
Bagram, Afghanistan
Cell Phone: 011-93-79570-8297


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## TSADAM13 (Jan 19, 2011)

svbeeco said:


> Where'd that guy go that asked the question in the first place!!


Hey man, I ain't a "beek", have some compasion please, it takes a moment to understand the lingo and get the numbers right, I mean after all, it ain't like any one of you guys are doing the same thing. Maybe that's why you all get differant numbers... hmmmm... a little insight there. NOTE: Honey Industry has NO STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURE...


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## TSADAM13 (Jan 19, 2011)

The Honey Householder said:


> To many facts and numbers for his taste. QUOTE]
> 
> Actually, BIG, BIG thanks to Honeyshack... she wrote a very detailed post. That's the kind of effort successful people make HH. You see, she knows what makes her business successful, she also knows how to keep GOOD track of her operations, which is a good indicator she will succeed as a business woman. So by providing "facts" about her operation, she has shown her ability to communicate and shed hope that the US Beekeeper will stave off things that may equal their demise. Whereas you, provided no factual input, here-se, and pawned off the notion of effort, as if I were some kind of "beecounter" looks can be deceiving my friend... That's what we call "productive" members of society. It's my guess, if she were a Bee, she'd be Queen, she would be the healthy one getting plenty of food, you'd be the drone getting kicked out of the hive in the winter because you have proved you’re not worth your weight in honey, and are no longer needed. It may be a fitting metaphor of your future as a beekeeper if I had to think about it for a moment. It's that untactful gesture you have that will make you less attractive to keep around when the goin` gets tough, and it will get tough.
> 
> Nah... Trust me I can handle more facts than you think. I just wish you'd actually put some out there.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

TSADAM13 said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> I am at Bagram Airbase, Afghanistan.
> 
> I kind of do some CSI stuff with improvised explosive devices (IED’s) (certain special types) to help out the US Army. Nope, I don’t make or use them; I just help the Army eliminate them from being used against its soldiers.


I call that pretty important work.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

TSADAM13 said:


> Actually, BIG, BIG thanks to Honeyshack... he wrote a very detailed post.


He's a she.


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## TSADAM13 (Jan 19, 2011)

learning curve haha... thanks.


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

aaww shucks....thanks
I am by no means anything more than a Canadian farmer trying to get by. Working hard along side her husband trying to keep it afloat.
Business management is the key to both good and lean times. Without knowing where and why an operation is hemoraging money one can never make changes fast enough to sustain the operation during the lean years.

"put the pencil to the paper and have a good eraser" holds alot of value for me


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## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

TSADAM13

Wow! I haven't taken a beat down like that since I got divorced. :lookout:

Your right about each of us running things different and that make numbers a big differents. $70K a year operating expense for 800+ hives. Might sound low, but not as low as the box I sit on going down the road. Just put a new pad on my truck seat(box). Who says you can't use a bee box for more then bees.


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## WPG (Mar 28, 2010)

TSADAM13 said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> So I need a Business Degree, to start a business, or buy one when I get back for good. I need to invest my money somewhere.


Did that jail thing that isn't jail a few decades ago. A little more primitive and isolated then. Shoot we were lucky if our _new_ music wasn't a year old. I think alot of our food was.

Good to keep the mind active.
I was just listening to a guy talking about business. He thinks MBAs are great.
He likes to always have a few around working for him.

You don't need one to start your own business. But if you want to do bees on a commercial level, learn the bees. 

With that nest-egg you're building you might be able to support your family while working for someone that can teach you alot about it.

Then jump in and let the bees build it. 
You may be able to get in bigger and build faster than most, but don't borrow to do it. It's a lifestyle and the rest of your life(wife & family) has to go along with it. You may have what it takes.

All that tech know-how may help develope new ways to monitor hive activity and status. Maybe early swarm warning, or loss of queen.
A lot of different sounds and smells in a hive at different times.

Goodluck


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I thought he was joking about Bees as a Business.


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## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

Mark I hate to see a guy throw his money away. I'll even throw in my truck to go with the business, or whatever he wants to call it.


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