# top bar guide on top bars



## julesbeek (Jun 1, 2007)

I'm sure this info is out there somewhere, but after several searches of the archives, I'm coming up with way too many unrelated posts, so am hoping someone can give me a quick and dirty answer. 

I'm trying out a couple TBHs this year for the first time, using the design on Michael Bush's page. They are constructed, except for the top bars, whic I need to finish.
The only question I have is about the top bar guides for the bees to draw the comb out. I'm either a table saw dork (possible) or I'm missing something about the best way to cut a wedge to glue to the top bar. Is there an easier way to give the bees a guide? Could I do a thread of beeswax on each top bar? Or cut a groove? How have others done their guides, other than cutting a bazillion narrow wedges that you then have to glue on. I'm trying to be expedient here. 

Thanks!
Julesbeek


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## Beethinking (Jun 2, 2008)

On my bars that I plan to use guides on, I have cut grooves down the center of each bar into which I will place some wax to get them started straight. 

Others either cut wedges when creating the bars, use popsicle sticks, or just avoid guides entirely and hope that the bees are kind. 

Matt


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## REWERT (Jan 30, 2009)

*Making top bars*

I'm in the same situation as you; first year beek in process of making my KTBH's. I finished the bars this weekend and went quite well. I made 2 hives and am trying different methods on each. First hive I'm using the 'wedge' or triangle starters as you are referring to. I set my table saw blade at a 45 degree angle and set a 2x4 up vertically against the rip fence, set to cut 3/4" wide. This made the perfect size triangle strips. Flip over the 2x4 to cut another one out of the same piece. If your brave, you can then cut the 2x4 horiontally and get a couple more sets of triangles.

For the 2nd hive I'm using the popsicle stick starters. This is a much simpler and quicker method. However you got to make sure you change your standard blade to a plywood blade to cut a narrower channel in you bar so the popsicle sticks aren't too loose. Simply glue them in place and your done. I will be coating both types of bars with some beeswax. Then it will be interesting to see which type works better; I will standardize on that type for future hives.


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## paul.h (Aug 9, 2008)

I cut a groove down the center of my top bars and then I lowered the table saw blade to below the table. I then attached a very thin piece of plywood to the table and raised the blade through the plywood creating a zero clearance saw top. I then clamped a piece of wood to the fence and cut guide strips from 1 X lumber to the proper thickness. This keeps the strips from slipping down beside the blade. The strips do fly out the back of the saw but without enough speed to hurt you. I just stand to one side when cutting. I cut enough for two top bar hives in a few minutes.


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## justgojumpit (Apr 9, 2004)

I make a 1-3/8 x 1-3/8 top bar, and then turn the blade to 45 degrees to cut a wedge into the top bar. I find this easier because there is no gluing, no nailing, no pouring wax, or any other work after the top bar has left the table saw. You can see a picture here:

http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2371812700056607729QlXFEr

justgojumpit


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## julesbeek (Jun 1, 2007)

*suggestions for guides on top bars - thanks!!*

A bunch of most excellent suggestions on how to do my top bars. I'm especially interested in the idea of cutting the actual bars to a 45 degree angle.

And thanks to Paul H. for the idea of clamping a piece of wood to the fence. I near about skewered myself the first time I tried to cut a thin piece of wood when it flew off of the saw.  I'll give the various ideas a try. 9 years keeping bees on Langs, so it's time to try something new as well.

Now out to the workshop!

Thanks again...

julesbeek


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## justgojumpit (Apr 9, 2004)

Jules,

I think you will like the angle cut top bars because they are much more efficient to make. One word of advice: work in series, not one top bar at a time. It's much faster to do the same cut 30 times, and then move onto the next cut. You spend much less time resetting the saw this way, and your body motions almost become mechanical and systematic. Much faster this way. Put a table to the left and right of your table saw. Put all the bars on one table and move them to the other after you make a cut. then vice versa for the next cut. I only get to be in the wood shop after work in the evenings, so I need to make the most of my time!

justgojumpit


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## REWERT (Jan 30, 2009)

(justgojumpit) how do you make the ends of the bars? Are you using a dado blade to cut the (extra) bar height off of the ends? How do you make the angled end cuts; did you make some special jigs for that? You made some very nice bars but seems like a lot of work and extra cutting. Hopefully you wouldn't mind further elaborating on the steps. Thanks.


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## peletier (May 5, 2007)

Rewert, you have just uncovered the reason for the two types of bars. I have made both. The angled 1 3/8 X 1 3/8 bars look neat and would seem to be the simplest but besides the risk at the blade when cutting a double angle like this, you have to flatten the ends of the bars so they will sit square on the rests. For goodness sake do it FIRST if you have your dado head in a tablesaw. A radial arm saw makes it possible to do it last but it's another piece of equipment.

I find it simplest to make the bars out of 3/4" stock, 1 3/8" wide, with a saw kerf about 1/4" deep right down the middle. As described earlier, cut strips off the edge of a 3/4" board just the width of the saw kerf. My hives have a dado for the end of the bars to sit down in but a friend just rests them on the top edge of the hive. Cutting this starter strip the correct length...that is, the length of your bar minus the thickness of your hive wall X 2...will keep the bar center so it doesn't drop.

I use stripped bars and angled bars side by side. I don't see any difference in performance.


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## justgojumpit (Apr 9, 2004)

start with 1-3/8 x 1-3/8.

turn the saw blade (not a dado, but a regular one) to 45 degrees.

cut the angle on each end of the top bar to a pre-determined depth (I use 3/4 inch) (this is not for the ridge, but for flattening off the ends)

When both ends of all the bars are done, turn the blade back to 90 degrees, and then holding the bars vertically, with the fence set at 3/4 inch, or whatever your predetermined depth was for the last cut, make a cut that just barely meets up with your previous cut. Now you will have the ends cut out. 

Once that is done, you turn the blade back to 45 and cut the ridge along the length of the bar.

BE CAREFUL WITH YOUR FINGERS!!!!!

justgojumpit


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Or order a chamfer molding and cut it to fit.


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## standman (Mar 14, 2008)

justgojumpit said:


> turn the saw blade (not a dado, but a regular one) to 45 degrees.
> 
> cut the angle on each end of the top bar to a pre-determined depth (I use 3/4 inch) (this is not for the ridge, but for flattening off the ends)
> 
> justgojumpit


Do you cut this on a 45 to discourage the bees from drawing their comb out to the edge, or is there another reason that I am missing?


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## Aram (May 9, 2006)

standman, I do it to accommodate the slanted walls of the hive. You can cut the ends of the "V" further in and not slanted just make sure you have the clearance.


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## Aram (May 9, 2006)

I took a few pictures and did a pictorial on how I do it. I hope it helps, if there are any questions I'll try my best to answer. Enjoy!
Top Bars Pictorial


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