# How much can the entrance-activity tell about health of hive?



## PatBeek (Jan 13, 2012)

.

Well, obviously if NO bees are going in-and-out, we all know that's not a healthy hive.

But how much can be known from just watching the entrance?

For instance, is it ALWAYS a sign the hive has a queen if several bees are outside fanning, or is the fanning just kind of like a memo to tell all the foragers what's going on in general?

Here's a short video of my hive from today (4-15-13). It shows - not only a very busy entrance - but several workers are fanning.

Mucho pollen can also be seen coming in. 

A lot of drones fumbling around in their typical non-graceful fashion.

Can you also see some of the workers trying to widen the entrance holes by eating away at the nutritious particle board material?

I would venture to say my hive is very healthy at this point, without even going inside, but I could be wrong.

I encourage others to post short videos of their hive entrance(s) if they are wondering about certain activities.


----------



## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

I'm sure you get a pretty good idea by looking at entrance activity, but it's hard to put my finger on exactly how. I know on several occasion i've thought something wasn't quite right - and usually i was right about that.


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I wouldn't rely on entrance observations as the only diagnostic tool.


----------



## beedeetee (Nov 27, 2004)

You can tell a lot about a hive from entrance activity. Without experience though, you need to compare hives. So if you have just one hive, look to see if they are very active, pollen coming in, normal orientation flights in the afternoons, etc. After you have been beekeeping for a few years, you will know what to expect at a certain time of the year and a certain time of the day. I would say that a majority of my "inspections" are looking at entrance activity and maybe pulling the lid. During the year I rarely go through all of the frames. When I pull frames, most of the time I only pull a few frames in the top brood box. When the frames are pulled in the top box I look down to the bottom one to see how many bees are there to get a feeling about upcoming swarm control.

In the beginning though you need to look at the entrance for a bit before opening the hive to get a feeling of how the two relate.


----------



## PatBeek (Jan 13, 2012)

sqkcrk said:


> I wouldn't rely on entrance observations as the only diagnostic tool.


Oh, I agree 100% - but just focusing on what we can tell from just the entrance.


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I have seen times when pollen was coming in by the boat loads. Turns out the colony was queenless. It had a lot of honey stored up too. And no brood. A queenless colony can be quite productive. Just not reproductive.

I well imagine some folks may be good at making accurate assumptions about the health of a hive by entrance activity. Not me. And I haven't met anyone who can do that either. Maybe I need to spend more time w/ other beekeepers.

I guess one often can tell that a nectar flow is on by the heavy bees streming into the hive entrance. That and the smell of certain nectars.


----------



## PatBeek (Jan 13, 2012)

sqkcrk said:


> I have seen times when pollen was coming in by the boat loads. Turns out the colony was queenless. It had a lot of honey stored up too. And no brood. A queenless colony can be quite productive. Just not reproductive.


What about if several of them are always fanning everyday?

.


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I don't know. Could they be helping orienting bees find their way home?


----------



## PatBeek (Jan 13, 2012)

sqkcrk said:


> I don't know. Could they be helping orienting bees find their way home?


Could be.

That's one of the questions I have regarding what things can be determined for sure from just watching the outside.

Obviously a hive needs to be inspected from time-to-time, but it would be nice to minimize these inspections if one could read certain activities on the outside and could rely on them as concrete signs of health or non-health.

.


----------



## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

I recently inspected a double five frame nuc hive. I had not seen much activity from that hive and had little expectations about what was residing inside. I was shocked to see all five frames of the top box PACKED with bees. When I checked the bottom box, it was exactly the same as the top..packed with bees.With plenty of feed inside I guess they didn't need to go anywhere.
Probably a big hatch of young bees that hadn't ventured out of the hive yet. It was also in a bit of shade-without the sun's direct heat encouraging them to go out. 
That was the long version of my answer...You can't tell anything for certain from the entrance activity, or lack of it.



















http://www.facebook.com/pages/Miller-Compound-HoneyBees-and-Agriculture/256954971040510


----------



## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

They're fanning for ventilation not signalling. It's probably a strong hive and with 3 little holes not getting enough airflow now to cool it down enough.


----------



## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

I vote with SQKCRK. Open the hive, don't be shy. Find out what is really going on.

Crazy Roland


----------



## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Roland said:


> I vote with SQKCRK. Open the hive, don't be shy. Find out what is really going on.
> 
> Crazy Roland


I missed that point, open the darn hive! LOL


----------



## PatBeek (Jan 13, 2012)

Roland said:


> I vote with SQKCRK. Open the hive, don't be shy. Find out what is really going on.
> 
> Crazy Roland


Oh, I know what's going on. I had to re-queen several weeks ago because I attempted a split a couple of months ago, falsely thinking that it wouldn't get cold again here in FL at that time. They MAY have raised a new queen, but I didn't take any chances.

So anyhow, after a re-queening, I decided to leave them alone for a period before i go disturbing a very delicate period.

I will be going into their hive in the next few days to see if there's any sign of eggs or even brood.

I'll also be looking to see if it's the new MARKED queen I bought or a non-marked FERAL queen that is OH SO DANGEROUS.

I'm actually hoping the feral queen prevailed. I like hot bees that can survive. That's what suits, gloves and smokers are for.

But ENOUGH about my personal situation. I was wanting to know GENERALLY what can be known from just the entrance activity.

.

.


----------



## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

Well, generally I think you can tell when there is a flow on by the rate at which bees arrive and leave. You can usually tell if the hive is empty if no bees come out when you rap sharply on the boxes with your hive tool (but only if it's not too cold for them to leave the cluster).

Otherwise, you have too many mites if bees with deformed wings are crawling around and falling off the landing board. 

If you have lots of bees on their backs on the ground in front of the hive and bees staggering around on the landing board and sliding off, they got into some insecticide while foraging.

If you see bees dragging out worker pupae, you had some chilled brood or very active hygenic bees discarding mite infected brood. If they are dragging out half raised drones, you may be short of pollen or nectar.

Sometimes a queenless hive will have bees runnier than normal, accompanied by a louder than usual roar inside.

Most hive will haul pollen and nectar with or without a queen if there is a good flow on. Hard to tell without looking.

After you see what's normal and expected for the season, you will start to see when things aren't right. Only a few bees foraging in mid spring when the fruit trees are blooming would cause me to look inside, even if they are in swarm mode they collect food. If they are getting ready to leave they won't be acting like a hive busy storing things up.

Only way to know for sure is to look inside though.

Peter


----------



## RogerCrum (Jun 19, 2011)

Excellent old book "At The Hive Entrance" by H Storch. There is much to be learned from such observation and it adds to the enjoyment of bee watching. Read the old book but do not neglect Roland's advice to get inside and investigate. Listen, smell, see the big picture, look carefully at individual details, taste and feel the stings too. LOL


----------



## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

I think you can see some health signs from the entrance but I don't think you can judge population. Activity at my hives come in waves and are not the same from one hive to another right next to each other. So unless you are watching continually through all the daylight hours population is hard to judge.


----------



## PatBeek (Jan 13, 2012)

.

Excellent comments just above.

I appreciate it very much.

But getting back to fanning bees..............is there a definite way to tell WHY bees are fanning? How many different things does fanning mean?

So they could either be trying to cool the hive or letting everyone know where the queen is? What else? How do you know which one they mean for sure?

.


----------



## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

RogerCrum said:


> Excellent old book "At The Hive Entrance" by H Storch.


 Here's a pdf file of the book. 

http://www.kootenaybees.ca/At the Hive Entrance.pdf


----------



## beedeetee (Nov 27, 2004)

Reasons that I can think of:

1. Cooling the hive (temp)
2. Ripening nectar (humidity)
3. Moving the air and pheromones looking for the queen (not usually at the entrance - just a roar in the hive when their queen has been removed)
4. You can see them doing this at the entrance of mating nucs, possibly guiding the queen back from mating flights
5. You can see them doing this at the entrance when a swarm is put in a box guiding the rest of the bees to the entrance


----------



## PatBeek (Jan 13, 2012)

beedeetee said:


> Reasons that I can think of:
> 
> 1. Cooling the hive (temp)
> 2. Ripening nectar (humidity)
> ...


Thanks.

Excellent info.

.


----------



## Wolfer (Jul 15, 2012)

In my opinion if bees have their butts stuck up in the air their releasing pheromones. If their butts are down their circulating air thru the hive.
Sometimes when all looks well at the entrance I won't go too deep in the hive, maybe not at all.
I wouldn't know how to explain what I look for, I just go with my gut feeling which is sometimes wrong!


----------



## PatBeek (Jan 13, 2012)

.

Interesting quote from the book regarding the hive entrance that someone posted a link to previously:



> A keeper who can tell the condition of his bees by observing the hive entrance does not need to open his hives and disturb the bees' sanctuary, the brood nest. This never produces good results.


----------



## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Wolfer said:


> In my opinion if bees have their butts stuck up in the air their releasing pheromones. If their butts are down their circulating air thru the hive.


While breezing through the online book I picked this up too. OK now that I know what they are doing so what? I don't see it changing what I have done or what I will do.


----------



## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Neglecting to do timely inspections never produces good results for me. Same for "maybe it will get better by itself."


----------

