# 8 frame vs 10 frame: and....go!



## MelanieWoosley (Nov 11, 2012)

Your thoughts on 8 frame vs 10 frame equipment?


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

I use almost all 8 frame, but with a couple of odd 10s that I use when my census is large.

8 frame pluses:
Lighter when full of honey
More room makes it easier to get the first frame out - a bigger deal than it might sound like.
A single can be used just like a traditional nuc - so you don't really need any special nuc sized equipment. 

Minus on 8 frame 
Sources of equipment is a little more limited.
a really good honey hive gets 25% taller.
If you use an excluder to make swarm season inspections quicker then you will probably put one more box in the brood nest, so it is an extra box to go through.
Winter configuration might also require another box - although I have had great success overwintering both singles and doubles. But it will depend on your preferred winter management.
Basically you just need more boxes which adds to expense.


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## Rob73 (Apr 19, 2009)

I like 8 frame equipment better than 10 frame. Lighter for sure. I only wish I could find a good foam telescoping outer cover for them. 

I would say its mostly just a preference. I read a lot about all mediums being the way to go as far as 10 frame stuff. But, many people stick to the traditional configurations too. 

Personally, I have had better luck with packages building up better in the 8 frame boxes. But then again, I guess I could have started my packages in a 10 frame medium box too..

Rob


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## MelanieWoosley (Nov 11, 2012)

Thank you David and Rob! Currently I only have two hives so it seems it would be smart to make the decision now so I don't end up stuck with a bunch of ten frame stuff. However I have enough equipment ready to expand four more to a total of six. Thanks for the input


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## gone2seed (Sep 18, 2011)

I have always used ten frame but am now changing over to eights.I see no difference in buildup but the eights are lighter.


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## Jeff Bush (Mar 24, 2013)

I started with 8 frame and am slowly switching over to 10 frame now. Reasons are primarily because of the increased amount of equipment you need (more boxes for the same number of frames). I decided that even if the boxes are heavier, I can always pull out a couple of extra frames if I need to, to lower the wt. I have also found that when you have a good flow and need to add a lot of supers/boxes, they can get pretty tall in a hurry, and despite weighing less, lifting them higher or from a higher height can be more challenging as well. If I had my own extractor, this wouldn't be an issue, as I would just extract more often, but I have to rent one each time, so tend to leave boxes with honey sitting on the hive longer. 

Second reason is that I can buy 10 frame equipment locally, but have to order 8 frame. 

I am also in MN and in order to make sure that I am leaving them with the recommended stores to over winter I need to leave them with 3 8 frame boxes and I was using 2 deeps and one medium, which then became an issue when I wanted to do reversals in the spring. Again, could easily have worked around wby using either all medium boxes and 3 deeps, but was trying to use what I had.

In the end, I think it is really about personal preference. If you are concerned about weight, have a place to store boxes with capped honey or can easily extract as needed, and have the space to store more supers/boxes then go with 8 frame equipment. 

You could also try an eight frame hive and see how you like it, before you decide. If you decide in the end to stay with 10 frame equipment, use the 8 frame equipment for a swarm or to start a package or split and then move it 10 frame equipment as it grows.


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## MelanieWoosley (Nov 11, 2012)

Thank you Jeff, valid points. I think I may try one and see how I like it, then like you said, I could always use them for swarm traps or whatever. Can't wait for swarms to pop, by the way!!!


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## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

Yup 8s are lighter, which means you have to make more trips.....so depends on you..... mine are all tens. gave away all the 8s a few years back... to confusing running both from the truck.


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## Sheddiver (Apr 24, 2013)

Have you seen this cover made for a 8 frame? http://greenbeehives.com/r28frtetop.html


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

8 frame hive seem to winter better and the boxes are lighter. I run all eight frame mediums.


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## Slow Modem (Oct 6, 2011)

I started with 10-frame deeps. Went to medium supers. Then went to 2 deep, medium super 8-frames. If my back keeps going, I'll be using 8-frame shallows.

I just wish they made more equipment for 8-frame hives.


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## kbfarms (Jan 28, 2010)

All 8 mediums. Want to save my back and work bees when I'm 70.


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## wanderyr (Feb 11, 2012)

I started with "standard" 10-frame double-deeps and supers. Now I also have hives that are all 8-frame mediums. What everyone has said is true, both pros and cons. I'm still trying to decide which to go with when I expand.

For me, the biggest pros of 8-frame mediums are
1) all standard sized frames - I can move food/brood/eggs anywhere I need to, and
2) the bees seem to fill the boxes to the edges easier. I don't see neglected frames on the edges in 8-frame hives. 

The biggest con for 8-frame equipment is that you have many more frames and boxes to move around when you do full inspections. It takes more time, which irritates the bees more  If you normally overwinter with two 10-frame deeps, the equivalent is four 8-frame mediums. You could avoid this problem by using both 8-frame deeps and mediums, but then you lose out on the interchangeability of the frames.

Hope this helps!
-wanderyr


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## kbfarms (Jan 28, 2010)

Here in KY, I can winter over in 3 mediums. Last winter, I had 3 splits that wintered over in 2 mudiums.


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## millerdrr (Dec 5, 2012)

Ten frame shallows and deeps. The only reason is because we've had them for decades, and a guy who quit gave us even more. Too cost-prohibitive to replace everything.


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## NewJoe (Jul 1, 2012)

8 frame for me....bad back!


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## R Dewhurst (Dec 22, 2012)

8 frame medium and 8 frame deeps. looking to see how they go. I solved the problem with hard to get items and build my own equipment.


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## tben (Dec 28, 2008)

8 frame boxes with 9 1.25" frames inside. All the benefits of 8 frame hives and almost as much surface area as 10 frames.:thumbsup:


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## melliferal (Aug 30, 2010)

I wouldn't worry too much about the lack of 8-frame compatible equipment. Mann Lake's newest catalog for instance has all kinds of 8-frame stuff, and doesn't even really have a separate 8-frame equipment section; the 8-frame-size choices are right there in an item's normal catalog listing. I suspect this will become a standard thing for most catalogs within a year or two.


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## Eddie Honey (May 30, 2011)

I started with all 8 frame mediums and now I use all 8 and 10 frame triple deeps for brood chambers and mediums for supers.


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## GregP (Apr 4, 2013)

I use 10 frame boxes with 9 frames in them spaced evenly. It's enough room to root around in there without disturbing the bees too much but not enough for them to make a bunch of bur comb down the sides.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I use 10 frame boxes with 9 frames in them spaced evenly. 

And I use 8 frame boxes with 9 frames in them. Tightly together in the center.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesframewidth.htm
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfaqs.htm#framespacing

From the inventor of the self-spacing frame:

"If we space the combs from center to center 1 1/2 inches, instead of 1 3/8, then we have an empty space of 5/8 inch between two combs of brood instead of 1/2, as it ought to be; and it will certainly require more bees to fill and keep warm a 5/8 than a 1/2 inch space. In a 1/2 inch space, the breeding bees from two combs facing each other will join with their backs, and so close up the space between the two brood combs. If this space is widened to 5/8 the bees cannot do this, and more bees will be required to keep up the needed brood- rearing temperature. What a drawback this would be in a cool spring, when our colonies are still weak in numbers, yet breeding most desirable, can readily be understood."--Julius Hoffman 

"...if the space is insufficient, the bees shorten the cells on the side of one comb, thus rendering that side useless; and if placed more than the usual width, it requires a greater amount of bees to cover the brood, as also to raise the temperature to the proper degree for building comb, Second, when the combs are too widely spaced, the bees while refilling them with stores, lengthen the cells and thus make the comb thick and irregular--the application of the knife is then the only remedy to reduce them to proper thickness."--J.S. Harbison, The bee-keeper's directory pg 32 

It is the irregularity of the thickness of the comb that bothers me with wider spacing in the brood nest, not to mention that they will be more likely to do the fins or the comb out from the face of the foundation with wider spacing. At 1 1/4" they hardly ever do. IMO, frames should always be tightly together unless they are DRAWN comb and they are in the supers.


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