# Splitting a Top Bar Colony in First Year?



## DennisBEEK (Feb 15, 2008)

My neighbor and I became Beeks this past May and placed our hives and colonies in our respective yards. Over time, his hive which was placed much lower to the ground became infected with ants. By the time he treated it with cinnamon and vasoline, many of the bees had died and the remaining appeared to have swarmed. My question is....if we were to set his hive next to my thriving hive, is there a good chance some of my bees will take up residence in his vacant hive and start a new colony? Or can I split my colony now (the first year) to get his hive active again? Over the summer, I have witnessed my colony growing in population and I have had lots of new baby bees. I am also aware it is now late August. 
Any advice?


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

If the top bar hives are of compatible dimensions you should be able to split them in almost the same ways you would split any other hive.


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## DennisBEEK (Feb 15, 2008)

*Splitting a Top Bar Colony in 1st Year?...to Joseph*

Joseph, 
Our hives are identical....Can I simply swap several of our top bars to re-establish his colony? 
If not, can you describe what needs to be done or refer me to a source that provides this information? 
Thanks. 
DennisBeek


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

DennisBEEK said:


> Joseph,
> Our hives are identical....Can I simply swap several of our top bars to re-establish his colony?
> If not, can you describe what needs to be done or refer me to a source that provides this information?
> Thanks.
> DennisBeek


Certainly swapping top bars can accomplish this purpose, especially since the hives have interchangeable top bars. But, unfortunately it isn't as simple as that.

If I were doing what you propose to do, I would first do a thorough examination to determine what resources are available in each colony. If your buddies hive is weak or vacant, by now wax moths or even SHB may be making a mess of the combs in the hive. That would need to be taken care of before moving any combs to establish/re-establish a colony in that hive.

Splits are generally composed of combs predominantly of honey, pollen, and brood. Optimally you would need to determine continued availability of nectar and pollen in your area, or plan to generously feed pollen substitute/supplement and sugar syrup. Emerging worker brood seems to be the best stage of brood to provide to the split that will be moved to a new location, since they will not have the advantage of a large field force initially.

Depending on the total resources available between the two hives, I would then make a decision as to what resources to steal from the stronger hive and donate to the weaker or non-existant colony. At this late in the season you may do better introducing a mated and laying queen rather than wait for them to raise their own.


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## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

I would think in Chicago it's to late to make a split
pamper the healthy hive so it's in good shape next spring to split

Dave


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## BerkeyDavid (Jan 29, 2004)

DennisBEEK said:


> My question is....if we were to set his hive next to my thriving hive, is there a good chance some of my bees will take up residence in his vacant hive and start a new colony?


No



> Or can I split my colony now (the first year) to get his hive active again?


Yes as pointed out above, IF your hive has enough resources at this time of year and is strong you could do a split. You must be sure that the old hive has both eggs from which they can make a new queen and sufficient bees and stores to do so. 



> Any advice?


Yes  Wait until late spring. IF your hive survives, wait until dandelion time, then swap places with the two hives. Find the queen, put her aside, then move one top bar with eggs, brood, and bees to the hive in the old location. Put the queen and remaining bees back in your hive at your friends place. Wait until the new queen cell has been constructed, the queen has hatched and bred and begun to lay (about 30 days) then check for the new queen.

IMO it is too late in the year in Chicago to try this, not enough time for the new hive to get up to speed and make it through the winter. And not a good idea to weaken a new hive with a split this time ofyear either.

[agree with Dave - took me too long to do this, got interupted by dinnertime!]


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I put a package in my KTBH this spring and had to do a shaken swarm in July to keep it from swarming.


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## yoyo (Jun 13, 2007)

How do you shake bees from a top bar? seems too fragile.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

It's more likely the bees from the failing hive will drift to the successful one. But none are likely to move out unless they are swarming and then they are more likely to move 1/4 mile down the road.

You can shake some of the bees (careful not to get the queen) into the other hive, but unless the first hive is overflowing with bees, this isn't the best time of year to do that.


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## Wojtek (May 31, 2005)

I think, that this "little toy" will be of some interest in practice of TBH's beekeeping. Probably not only TBH. Brushing and shaking is not pleasant things for beekeeper and particularly for bees. With this "toy" "Sting prove armor" or even just a veil is not necessary. 
Some photos are missing in current edition. It will be corrected soon.
http://homepage.interaccess.com/~netpol/POLISH/Ule/SsawkaEN.htm


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