# Questions about checkerboarding....



## IndianaHoney (Jun 5, 2006)

OK, I understand that checkerboarding is done in the supers, and that Walt uses one shallow or medium full of honey under the deep, then one empty on top of the deep, then alternating empty and full frames on top of that. But here is what I don't understand...

1. If this is done somewhere between Feb and April, where does all this excess honey come from? When my hives fill two or three supers of honey in the summer, I extract it. Otherwise I could end up with granulated honey in the comb. Besides that, It would really suck to go a year or two without a crop in order to use it the next year.

2. What do people mean by overwintering with honey on top? I use two deeps to overwinter. I live in Indiana, and the bees use the honey thats left on for them.

3. If I where to checkerboard, I would be seperating the broodnest from the overhead honey by placing the empty super between them. Could this cause starvation? Remember, our flows start later, but I believe brood rearing starts in Feb.

4. If I were to feed the bees in January - Febuary, can I use frames of capped syrup in place of the honey (as long as I mark the frames to aviod extracting it with honey)?

5. It would seem to me that It would take three years before a hive could be checkerboarded. If I start with a nuc, they build fast enough to survive the winter. Then if they do, the next year I can super, but not checkerboard because of a lack of excess drawn comb and honey per hive. Then the next year, I let those frames sit (and probably mold), and start with foundation again. Then the next year I can finally start checkerboarding? Is there a better way to get a hive ready for checkerboarding after the first year?

6. If you have a lack of drawn comb, and a lack of capped honey in feb - march, where do you start?

7. Because I live in the north, I have to ask, if these hives become very large and strong, how much more honey do I need to leave for them? If they are large and strong going into fall, would this not negate the extra honey produced because you would have to feed it to them in winter?

8. Can I let the bees fill a single shallow super in spring, then checkerboard it after it is drawn and filled? Or would I see no bennifit at that point?

Thanks


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

There was a recent discussion on this very topic. I'll see if I can find it for you.

Our set ups are in similar northern climates and here is how I understand "checkerboarding" in our situation.
Checkerboarding is to be performed in very early spring on the super of capped honey "above" the brood nest. As you mentioned, in our climate when early spring comes there may not be a super of honey left above the brood nest, certainly not if you are only using 2 deep boxes as you and I are. I think that for checkerboarding to be feasable there must be some type of 3 box set up with a box of capped stores above.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

http://www.beesource.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=007425;p=1

This thread gets a little complicated but it may answer some of your questions


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## IndianaHoney (Jun 5, 2006)

Wow!!! That was interesting, but didn't answer hardly any of my questions.

The debate seemed to be mostly about what checkerboarding really is, and a debate about foundation vs empty comb. I already know what checkerboarding is. It seems that the only way to do this would be feed like crazy in late fall to get them to draw out comb, and fill a few extra supers with syrup. That way I can use to the syrup for feed over the winter, and then use the honey for checkboarding in the early spring. Then the following fall, use the old honey for feed.

Another question...

If I feed a lot in the late fall, would this cause the bees to rear more brood, and use up their pollen?


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

I may not be understanding exactly what you are trying to accomplish.

I don't believe that "checkerboarding" is a practice that you want to create and ADD to early spring management. I think it is a method for "breaking up" EXISTING overhead honey stores to entice the bees to begin to work up in early spring. 

With a two deep set up in our regions we will probably never see this happen as the bees will be working the center of both boxes... thus the discussion on "reversing" and "opening up the broodnest".

If you fall feed or the colony itself puts up 80-90 lbs of honey in the 2 deeps for winter, thats all you need. Springtime, just add empty supers and keep the brood area open.

If for some reason you really WANT to try checkerboarding, then put a super of honey in the freezer in the fall and come early spring place it back on the colony checkerboarded. 


> "If I feed a lot in the late fall, would this cause the bees to rear more brood, and use up their pollen?" 

Only if you feed them too thin a syrup, which could stimulate brood rearing. You want to feed them a heavy 2:1 syrup in the fall.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

> 5. It would seem to me that It would take three years before a hive could be checkerboarded. If I start with a nuc, they build fast enough to survive the winter. <

I think you may be underestimating how quickly a nuc will build up for you. Starting with a nuc this spring you will probably end up with 2 deeps drawn out, plus a super or two by the end of the year.


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## IndianaHoney (Jun 5, 2006)

"I think you may be underestimating how quickly a nuc will build up for you. Starting with a nuc this spring you will probably end up with 2 deeps drawn out, plus a super or two by the end of the year."

------------------------------------------------

Thats good to hear. I've never used nucs before. I was planning on giving them a try because I was told that a nuc simply has a better chance of survival. The one thing I really love is swarms. Every time I've gotten a swarm, I ended up with no honey from the mother hive, but got three shallows of honey from the swarm (if caught in mid to late May). However, I do start swarms with a deep of foundation, and a shallow of drawn comb. Maybe that gives them an advantage.

------------------------------------------------

"I may not be understanding exactly what you are trying to accomplish."

------------------------------------------------

I'm trying to accomplish the seemingly impossible feat of having honey available in late winter too early spring for the purpose of checkerboarding. If I plan to checkerboard lots of hives, it would be impossible to freeze multiple supers of honey over the winter. I think I would just have to leave it on the hive and hope that the bees don't eat it. I considered feeding in late fall to have them fill some supers with syrup. Then use the frames of syrup in the spring for checkerboarding. The only thing I worry about is the bees moving it, then having syrup mixed with the honey when I extract. Who knows, maybe I'll find a way to do it.

[ December 24, 2006, 10:19 PM: Message edited by: IndianaHoney ]


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

> "Every time I've gotten a swarm, I ended up with no honey from the mother hive, but got three shallows of honey from the swarm"

That's what the "checkerboarding", "reversing", "opening the brood nest" is all about. If you could have kept that colony intact and prevented it from swarming, you may have gotten "5" supers from the one hive. That's our main objective.

I hope you have great success in your endeavors.


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## ikeepbees (Mar 8, 2003)

Hey IndianaHoney,

In your opening post you mention that you "understand that checkerboarding is done in the supers, and that Walt uses one shallow or medium full of honey under the deep, then one empty on top of the deep, then alternating empty and full frames on top of that."

I want to make sure that you don't misunderstand what checkerboarding, or nectar management really is.

First, the shallow or medium full of honey under the deep that you mention is not a part of Walt's nectar management. He does move a shallow of brood below the deep during the buildup, and calls it a "pollen box." This is not really part of nectar management, and nectar management can be accomplished without doing this. What we have found is that the bees often fill this box with pollen, and use this pollen in the Fall. they seem to overwinter better this way.

Second, Nectar management does not involve putting an empty above the deep. It does involve exchanging (or checkerboarding) every other frame of honey in the super above the brood with an empty comb. That leaves every other frame still containing honey. Then you checkerboard another super with empty comb and the honey frames you pulled, and place it on top. Empty comb goes above this box.

The goal is to keep the brood nest expanding through the build up, which results in large populations and big honey harvests.


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## sc-bee (May 10, 2005)

Hi Rob,
Do I have it wrong? A super of honey is not a prerequisite to start NM but having drawn comb is. If there is no honey left at time of manipulation for NM you place on a couple of empties of drawn foundation 6-8 weeks before white wax. And then stay ahead of the bees by adding as they fill the supers. If you have frames of Honey when you start then you alternate them.

Indiana do you have a copy of Walt's manuscripts?
Now is a good time for me to reread mine. Would like to see any additional studies or info posted. I have been patiently waiting  .

[ December 25, 2006, 07:27 AM: Message edited by: sc-bee ]


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## ikeepbees (Mar 8, 2003)

Merry Christmas sc-bee,

I think you have it right! If your brood nest goes to the top with no honey above, there is nothing with which to "checkerboard". At that point Walt would recommend, just as you said, to place empty brood comb above and stay ahead of them.

While this is not nectar management as described by Walt, it is what he would recommend that you do.



> If you have frames of Honey when you start then you alternate them.


Exactly!


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## peggjam (Mar 4, 2005)

This is exactly why I have stated that CB'ing will NOT work for northern beekeepers.

It will work fine for southern beekeeps because you use a different wintering configuration for your hives, your winters are not as severe, and you can get into the hives at the right time to achieve the whole goal of CB'ing.

Now everyone is confused about how to get this done in the north.

If you really wish to checkerboard this is what you will have to do:

First, you will need to leave an extra full super of honey on your hives: that means about 95#'s of honey (if you leave on a deep) that you will NOT be able to harvest, at retail price of $2 per #, that is alot of money you won't make.

Second, you will have to hope that in a 3 deep hive, that the bees will be able to survive in this expanded environment.

Third, you will have to open every hive in late winter to CB your hive, and add an additional box to the hive, and while this shouldn't disturb the hive much it will increases the amount of space the bees have to control. 

OR:

You can harvest the extra box of honey, and reverse or open up the broodnest in the spring, all the while having the bees in a space they have a chance of controling.

In MHO, it would be extremely difficult to preform NM via CB'ing if you are a northern beekeeper, and if you could, the gain would not be worth the loss in honey and in the extra labor involved.


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## IndianaHoney (Jun 5, 2006)

This is where I got my information:

http://www.knology.net/~k4vb/Walt's%20BIO.htm 

I was under the impression that the empty box on top was so that the bees do not see a wall of honey above the brood nest, and that by seeing this empty space they would be stimulated into foraging. And that the checkerboarded supers above that was to draw the bees up into the supers, and they would start filling the empty frames with nectar.

I just read some more of the articles and got a better understanding of what I need to do. I have to disagree with you Peggjam, NM can be done very easily in the north as well as the south. If I'm understanding the correctly NM or CB has these simple steps and goals in mind.

The basic goal is simply to pre-occuppy the bees with recovering the honey used while overwintering, and keep them from swarming by providing space for nectar above DIRRECTLY above the brood nest DURING THE BUILDUP AND SWARM SEASON ONLY.

This effect of this is a ever expanding broodnest during this period, causing a very very very strong hive for the main flow. The side effect is far more bees, which produce far more honey.

The simple steps to this is:

1. If the broodnest is in the bottom super in late winter, with honey overhead, you simply checkerboard the remaining honey into enough space for at least two shallow supers worth of space (if you use shallows to overwinter). To look like this

-----------
|eeeeeeeee| --empty shallow
-----------
|fefefefef| --checkerboarded shallow
-----------
|efefefefe| --checkerboarded shallow
-----------
|BBBBBBBBB|
|BBBBBBBBB| --Brood
-----------

If they have no honey, simply put on two supers of empty comb.

If you use deeps and you have honey it should look like this:

-----------
|eeeeeeeee| --shallow, or medium
-----------
|fefefefef| --Deep (had to use two lines)
|fefefefef|
-----------
|BBBBBBBBB| --Brood
|BBBBBBBBB|
-----------

Most likely the above would not happen in the north.

However, if your cluster is in the top deep in late winter, you would do this.

-----------
|eeeeeeeee| --shallow or meduim
-----------
|eeeeeeeee| --deep
|eeeeeeeee|
-----------
|BBBBBBBBB| --Brood
|BBBBBBBBB|
-----------

Again, the goal is to continually provide empty space above the broodnest. When the bees start filling the box below the top one, add another. Walt states that you must always maintain two supers worth of space during the swarm season. In the above example, I start with the empty deep and empty shallow on top of the broodnest. When the bees start working the top deep, add another shallow so that I will have two shallows on top. When they then reach the bottom shallow, add another one so that I always have two supers worth of space that is not being worked. This keeps the brood nest expanding because they can't backfill it with nectar.

When the swarm season is over, I just super as needed. Then in September, I can split the hive and feed if I want to expand. This should easily work for northern beeks. If we have honey left, they would not starve because you are leaving at least 4 or 5 deep frames of honey above the broodnest. This keeps from seperating them from the food supply. Also, the bees being in the bottom deep most likely means they still have honey down there. If they are in the top deep, it doesn't matter, that would most likely mean there is no honey in the bottom. And if there is honey in the bottom, so what, you're just putting a food supply above them by reversing. Thats what they like anyway.

As far as warming the space goes, you are only adding one shallow or medium worth of space. That's not that much. If its still too cold in Feb or early March, wait until late March. It should be warm enough on most days to allow flying time.

[ December 26, 2006, 12:52 AM: Message edited by: IndianaHoney ]


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## peggjam (Mar 4, 2005)

Gee IndianaHoney, when you put it like that, must be any local beekeep can do it...........I won't be doing it, MB doesn't do it(or at least hasn't tried it), in fact I can't think of one northern beekeep that is even going to attmpt it. But you all just go ahead and do it......and keep us posted on how that works out for you  .


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## IndianaHoney (Jun 5, 2006)

Peggjam, no offence was intended... I just simply disagree with you (if I am understanding NM correctly). And I understand your reluctance, especially if its untested in the northern states.

Don't mistake my previous comments as me stating that heating space can not possibly be a problem.
I am even apprehinsive enough that I will not be using this method with all my hives. I plan to try it on 2-4 hives first. It would be irresponsible of me to take a chance with more than that. An easy method of solving heating space may be to feed pollen patties and thin syrup in late Jan to early Feb to increase the size of the cluster before you add the extra space.

I'll try this method with two hives. I'll feed two pollen and syrup, and leave the other two alone. Then use the NM approach starting in early to late March. I let you know if they survive it, and how they preform.


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## ikeepbees (Mar 8, 2003)

IndianaHoney,

I spoke to Walt today and confirmed that the picture at the site you posted where the empty super of comb is placed above the brood and below the checkerboarded honey was a mistake.

He said he would try to clear it up when he has a chance.

[ December 26, 2006, 10:38 PM: Message edited by: ikeepbees ]


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## peggjam (Mar 4, 2005)

"Peggjam, no offence was intended"

None taken. Sorry if I sound huffy on this subject, I don't mean too....it just seems like nobodies listening. Let me know how it works, nobody would like to be able to do this more than I would, but it just doesn't seem feasible.


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## allrawpaul (Jun 7, 2004)

I am not going to save filled honeycomb till spring for checkerboarding. That's extremely inconvenient and problematic. Last year I simply checkerboarded as they filled frames with honey, and kept the brood nest open. Wont this accomplish the swarm prevention and population build up that we're looking for? It did prevent swarming in the one hive I tried it on, but I didnt checkerboard till midsummer so that doesnt say much.


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## sc-bee (May 10, 2005)

I thought MB had a test project of some sort with volunteer participates going. Is that right MB?


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## Walts-son-in-law (Mar 26, 2005)

Printing for Walt


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## IndianaHoney (Jun 5, 2006)

peggjam wrote...
----------------------------------------------
"it just seems like nobodies listening. Let me know how it works, nobody would like to be able to do this more than I would, but it just doesn't seem feasible."
----------------------------------------------

I'm listening to you, and again I understand and still do share SOME apprehinsiveness. I felt the same way as you until I got a better understanding of what Walt is doing (again if I read correctly). The term nectar management is a much better term to discribe what Walt is doing. What eased my mind about it is this:

1. If you overwinter in two deeps, the only space you are adding for the bees to warm is one shallow or medium super. I have a hive right now that has two deeps, and a shallow under them. They are my strongest hive (and the shallow is was empty, I just simply forgot it). That one addition is not much more space than they already are heating.

2. If you wait until mid March, brood should already be emerging, this will help heat the additional space.

3. Keep in mind that we winter in two deeps for one reason. The bees need the food. The only manipulations with those deeps are to reverse if cluster is in the top (that would mean the bottom has no food). This wouldn't hurt them because they are already on their food source, and you are moving it with them.

4. If they are in the bottom, and they have overhead honey, only then do you checkerboard that deep. You are not adding a third deep, just replacing 5 of the frames with empty comb. This doesn't take away their food source, because it is already close to the foraging seasons. They still have 5 frames of honey over them. Thats enough to get them through another month anyway.

5. After the initial manipulations, the only thing you do is add supers. This is done when they start working the super that is second from the top. This is done one super at a time. You don't start with 5 or 6 supers on the hive. To state that a little better, you start with two deeps and a shallow. Again, this is true only if you overwinter in two deeps.

[ December 27, 2006, 12:40 AM: Message edited by: IndianaHoney ]


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I thought MB had a test project of some sort with volunteer participates going. Is that right MB?

I haven't heard any reports from those who said they were going to try it.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

> "4. If they are in the bottom, and they have overhead honey, only then do you checkerboard that deep."

I'll pipe up just one more time, and then I'll quit. This point #4 seems to be the center of the whole discussion, for both perspectives. You're right IndianaHoney, this is a perfect situation where CB'ing would be the best approach - even up here in yankeeland. But as peggjam continues to stress, it is very very unlikely that we will "ever" see this situation in the north, even if you try to create it. Even the colonies that are packed with reserves in the fall will end up in at least part of the upper deep in late winter. It's still trying to put a square peg in a round hole if you use CB'ing with a 2 deep system in the north.


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## Troy (Feb 9, 2006)

My concern about this approach is the empty space. The SHB is such a problem down here in Florida, that any empty space just gives the advantage to the SHB.

Once the SHB gains a foothold things go downhill pretty fast.

Has anybody discussed nectar managment in light of SHB?

Troy


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## ikeepbees (Mar 8, 2003)

Troy,

I live in Mobile, AL. The end of the flow here, for me, is around the end of June. My experience so far is that if I get the supers off by the end of July, the reduction in cavity volume helps the still strong colonies control things with the beetles.

The only time I had problems with the beetles was the first year they arrived - I didn't really know what to expect and left some colonies with pretty tall stacks of supers on them into October. I was spending a lot of time at my real job and was putting it off. Big mistake as you can imagine, lost colonies and honey both.


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## Bob Russell (Sep 9, 2003)

To all
This is a copy of a posting I made to the orgainic list a couple of days ago headed "Another nectar management method"

These photos taken today are of a single brood box hive that was honey 
choked in the brood frame arches a couple of weeks ago.The arch area 
of the centre frames were scraped back to the mid rib.The cells have 
been rebuilt by the bees and layed up with new lava evident.The frame 
here is 5.2 mm for an intermediate change from 5.4 mm to 4.9 mm

http://tinyurl.com/y7onfu


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

Very interesting Bob. 

Have you ever tried using a capping scratcher to open the capped honey cells above the brood? I wonder if that would be enough to encourage them to relocate stores and refill the cells with brood?


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## IndianaHoney (Jun 5, 2006)

Mike wrote:

"Even the colonies that are packed with reserves in the fall will end up in at least part of the upper deep in late winter. It's still trying to put a square peg in a round hole if you use CB'ing with a 2 deep system in the north."

------------------------------------------------

Mike, I understand that will almost always be the case. I'm just saying in an unlikely event that there is overhead honey, you would checkerboard it. As far as being in the north, we up here will probably not checkerboard, but NM is still a viable method for swarm reduction. Walt states that in the case of the bees being in the upper deep, you just reverse the deeps, then add another super. Checkerboarding is not needed in our case, but NM is. The goal is to keep never let the bees fill the space available, thats why you keep adding supers through the build-up and swarm season. Ours would look like this in early spring:

------------
|BBBBBBBBBB| -- Deep with brood
|BBBBBBBBBB|
------------
|eeeeeeeeee| -- Empty deep
|eeeeeeeeee|
------------

then like this after switching in early spring:

------------
|eeeeeeeeee| -- empty shallow
------------
|eeeeeeeeee| -- empty deep
|eeeeeeeeee|
------------
|BBBBBBBBBB| -- Deep with brood
|BBBBBBBBBB|
------------

then when the brood, and/or honey does this:

------------
|eeeeeeeeee| -- empty shallow
------------
|BBBBBBBBBB| -- Deep with brood and/or honey
|BBBBBBBBBB|
------------
|BBBBBBBBBB| -- Deep with brood and/or honey
|BBBBBBBBBB|
------------

you do this:

------------
|eeeeeeeeee| -- empty shallow
------------
|eeeeeeeeee| -- empty shallow
------------
|BBBBBBBBBB| -- Deep with brood and/or honey
|BBBBBBBBBB|
------------
|BBBBBBBBBB| -- Deep with brood and/or honey
|BBBBBBBBBB|
------------

And so on. Just stay ahead of the bees through the swarm season.
In the case that you don't have honey left after the winter (Northern states), no checkerboarding will be done. As the bees start working their way up, you stay two supers ahead of them. That is NM as I understand it.


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## Bob Russell (Sep 9, 2003)

Mike
We do use a capping scratcher on crystalized honey frames and alternate them with empty frames in the honey box.The bees make a great job of reworking the crystilized honey.The sraped out honey and wax in the photo was placed in the top feeder with straw.This helps to further stimulate the bees into action.The honey arches that were scaped out in this case were all capped forming a solid barrier.Scraping off just the cappings with the sratcher may work very well,something to try.Our honey season is to far advanced now to try it in another hive.


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## peggjam (Mar 4, 2005)

IndianaHoney 


We can't reverse our hive bodies in early spring. I don't think I would dare reverse until mid to late April. It would really throw the hive for a loop if done much earlier than when the weather stablizes.


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## IndianaHoney (Jun 5, 2006)

Peggjam

Why would it throw them for a loop? Please explain. I have never reversed, and everything seemed to work out fine.


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## peggjam (Mar 4, 2005)

It basicly depends on where the cluster anchors when it resumes brood rearing in mid Jan. If the cluster is partly in both boxes...ie...in the top of the bottom box and in the bottom of the top box, by reversing you have split the broodnest. It would then have part of the brood in the bottom of the bottom box, and part of the brood in the top of the top box. Chances are good that they will choose to cluster in one or the other location, because they won't be able to cover both spots effictively. So you will lose some of the brood to the cold.


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## ikeepbees (Mar 8, 2003)

Spring begins March 20.


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## ikeepbees (Mar 8, 2003)

Great info and photos, Bob!


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## peggjam (Mar 4, 2005)

"Spring begins March 20."

Well, that's what the calander says, and maybe what your used to, but we have unsettled weather here until the middle of May, and sometimes close to June. It can range from 65-70 degrees one day, and plunge to below freezing for a week the next. It would be crazy to reverse boxes until the weather has stablized, and there is little chance of temps staying below freezing during the day. Even then it is risking some of the brood.


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## Dwight (May 18, 2005)

Indiana,
In the north we are likely to end up with two deeps something like this in early spring (if we went into winter with plenty of honey and pollen).

|HHHbbbbHHH| 
|HHbbbbbbHH|
------------
|HHeeeeeeHH| 
|HHeeeeeeHH|

In early spring we should be able to reverse the two deeps and checkerboard the top one like this.
As the bees fill the top boxes continue checkerboarding until the end of swarm season then just add honey supers as needed. 

|eeeeeeeeee|
|eeeeeeeeee|
------------
|HeHeHeHeHe| 
|HeHeHeHeHe|
------------
|HeHbbbbHeH| 
|HHbbbbbbHH|


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## beehoppers (Jun 16, 2005)

Hello all...
Been reading a lot of the checkerboard entries and still have a question. Does the process work well (even in the north) with Russian or Carni's? Since they are more anxious to swarm than Italians, I'm planning on doing this with 1 of my 2 Russians. It is living in a 3 medium with a small cluster just moving into the middle box. Around Feb. 1 I'll move the middle box down with the cluster and Checkerboard the empty bottom with the honey capped top box.
Anyway doing this should be possible because of the 3 medium brood setup and the Russian habit of maintaining a small cluster, eating less till their quick buildup. I'm trying to play to the strengths of the Russians.
Happpy Holidays!!!


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Does the process work well (even in the north) with Russian or Carni's? Since they are more anxious to swarm than Italians

I think their tendency to swarm is simply because they hold off building up and then they build up explosively and the beekeeper has a harder time keeping up with them. I have done more of the "keeping the brood nest open" method, but I have no trouble with any particular race swarming if I feed empty frames into the brood nest enough to keep them from backfilling it.


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## BerkeyDavid (Jan 29, 2004)

Hi all, just got through reading this thread.

OK, my 2 bits. I have been using NM / CB the last 2 years. I am 2 miles from Michigan line in Northwest Ohio. I use all Mediums and overwinter in at least 3 and sometimes 4 mediums.

I do a combination hive reversal and checkerboarding. I take the hive apart, put the brood nest box in the bottom, make sure the pollen is close by. whatever honey is left I checkerboard in the 2nd box with the 3rd box. 

So it looks like this if H = frame of honey
B = Brood P = Pollen and E = drawn empty frame

-----------
|EEEEEEEEE|
-----------
-----------
|EHEHEHEHE|
-----------
-----------
|PPBBBBBBPP|
___________

The reason the top box is empty is because they have consumed most of the honey by now. But you need to keep empty supers on top.

In 2006 I did it on April 23rd
In 2005 I did it on March 30th.

It has worked good for me, but the hives do get pretty high. I have not had a swarm in last 2 years that I know of. I have done it with Carnis and Italians and Russians. The carnis seem to move up faster than the others but can't tell for sure.

If I was running deeps I would basically try to get the brood down to one deep in the bottom box and make sure the top box had empty comb or alternated the empty comb with the remaining stores. THen keep empty supers above.


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## jim b (Oct 3, 2004)

Bob Russell-
>The cells have
been rebuilt by the bees and layed up with new lava evident.<

"Lava evident"?

New enough to not have heard this before now. 

Sounds cool though.

Could someone share the origin of this description and it's definition?

Please and thank-you.
-j


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## IndianaHoney (Jun 5, 2006)

BerkeyDavid,

Have you had any issues with your bees using this method? Have you lost any hives?

On average, how much honey was produced by each hive?

PS: I was thinking there were a couple northern beeks that were using NM/CB, but I wasn't 100% sure.

[ January 01, 2007, 01:03 AM: Message edited by: IndianaHoney ]


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## BerkeyDavid (Jan 29, 2004)

> Have you had any issues with your bees using this method? Have you lost any hives?
> 
> On average, how much honey was produced by each hive?


I haven't had any issues that I know of except I did have one go queenless on me in August. 

The biggest issue is that the stacks of supers get really high. And once you start stacking them up you can't easily check on the brood nest because the supers are so heavy and stacked so high. I was 6 and 7 supers high.

In 2005 I got 500 pounds from 4 hives. None were packages. In 2006 I got 300 pounds from 9 hives. 3 of my 4 hives made it through the 2005-6 winter. Almost all of the honey was from my 3 overwintered hives. The other 6 of these were packages. The packages did terrible. 

This year I did nucs and splits from Q cells in August. So I am going in to winter with 13 hives (5 are nucs / splits from Tim Tarheit NWC q cells and 2 are splits from Q's I raised from my Top Bar hive). I am trying to get away from the packages.

As far as production is concerned, this year wasn't nearly as good as last year. But I think it was the weather. We had 5.7 inches one day and 2 weeks later had 6 inches in 2 days. THis was the last part of June and beginning of July. And May was cold and wet too. My lilacs didn't even bloom this year (and I have 13 lilac bushes of 4 different varieties). Only had one good week of Fall in Sept. But in November we had a beautiful Indian Summer!

So that's my excuse and I'm stickin' to it!









And yes I plan to checkerboard again this spring. ONce they get the pollen coming in and it warms up so I can tear apart the hives and get into them. But I do agree that you don't just want to go by the calendar. You need to watch the weather and do it after it has warmed up.

[ January 01, 2007, 06:32 PM: Message edited by: BerkeyDavid ]


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## Marc (May 20, 2005)

David, I was reading through this thread again... goodness 6-7 supers... can I ask what kind of mite treatment you do? Do you use any chemicals, or do you use drone frames? I am using the drone frames which requires me getting into the brood boxes about every 3 weeks (and not a day later







to catch the mites before they emerge with the brood). Just curious...


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