# weak hive, what do to?



## cbird (Jan 19, 2014)

I have a hive that is weak and need help figuring out what to do to help. Basically they were an ordered package which I installed in May. They were doing fine but when I inspected them a few weeks later almost all of their combs collapsed, it was a huge mess. I have learned since then it was from using wax along the top bars and so I won't be doing that again! Anyway I thought it could be related, but since then they barely build comb and have almost no honey. In the partial combs that they do have it is filled with brood. They never seem to get going and look like they are barely making it. What can I do to help them? I thought maybe I can give them some bees, brood, and honey from my other stronger hive (will that be OK adding the bees with the combs?) I couldn't see what the problem is unless it's just low numbers and they can't get ahead? Any thoughts? I am just in my second Summer of beekeeping and love it but have soooo much to learn.
Thanks for any help you can offer.

Chrissi,
Idaho


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## Jonesjungle (Apr 15, 2014)

I'm no expert but it seems that you are needing more bees and comb. I made some rescue bars that comb can be attached to. Scroll to middle of page. http://www.thegardenacademy.com/BK_-_Rescue_Frames.html. These aren't mine but are what I made and they really work. If you add brood comb with bees on it, make sure you don't move the queen and you may want to mask the scent. A very light spray of spearmint essential oil in sugar water works well for me. about 2 drops to a cup.


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## Life is Good! (Feb 22, 2013)

The question is - is this hive weak from beekeeping management mistakes, or is it weak from pests/diseases? If pests - get rid of those first! Otherwise, you'll just be weakening two hives instead of one. 

You'll have to decide if this hive is worth the battle over. If yes, add brood from another hive. You can add a bar of brood comb (with nurse bees on it), typically without too much trouble. However, make sure the queen isn't on the comb you move! This will dramatically increase the quantities of bees in the hive. Then, I would take some REAL honey (from your own hives if you have some to spare), and feed it to this weak hive. I would only feed them real honey - this is the food they make, this is what they need to be strong.

Lastly, make sure they have enough room to grow and no cross comb or crooked combs. They may not get a strong start. Watch them carefully over the fall flow. If they still seem weak, in order to help them get through the winter - you can put two hives in the same box with a follower board between them (obviously entrances on each hive). The smaller hive will benefit from extra heat help from the stronger hive. Just make sure they cannot get to one another (I've hot glued the follower board to make sure it was bee tight).

And keep reading here! Just start going through the older posts. Read a whole two years worth of posts (it's longer than you think!)....there's so much wisdom and assistance here! Good luck! We've all made mistakes - the trick is not to repeat them!


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## cbird (Jan 19, 2014)

Thanks for the replies, I will check more closely for pests-I hope it will be obvious as I haven't dealt with any at this point. I am still so upset about the combs collapsing...the hive I put them in suggested pre waxing the bars and so I did it for the first time and the last. Sometimes it is hard to know what is good advice...
That's a great idea about reading a few years posts-thanks!


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## mhorowit (Sep 25, 2011)

Jonesjungle said:


> I'm no expert but it seems that you are needing more bees and comb. I made some rescue bars that comb can be attached to. Scroll to middle of page. http://www.thegardenacademy.com/BK_-_Rescue_Frames.html. These aren't mine but are what I made and they really work. If you add brood comb with bees on it, make sure you don't move the queen and you may want to mask the scent. A very light spray of spearmint essential oil in sugar water works well for me. about 2 drops to a cup.



Just my .02, but for HONEY comb, it is very heavy, hot(so the comb structure is weak) and messy, so simply remove the HONEY comb and place it close to the hive and they will recover it all during the week as well as building new comb. For BROOD comb, you need the rescue bars - Mike


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## Little-John (Jun 18, 2015)

cbird said:


> ... since then [the comb collapse] they barely build comb and have almost no honey. In the partial combs that they do have it is filled with brood. They never seem to get going and look like they are barely making it. What can I do to help them?


Feed them.

Foragers need food (fuel) in order to go foraging, in order to bring nectar (hopefully) and pollen back to the hive. 

No 'fuel' = no foraging = nothing coming into the hive = no build-up. You need to break that cycle, otherwise it will be a slow decline downwards with a predictable ending.

The above advice assumes that there's nothing otherwise untoward happening in the hive - like disease or a dodgy queen.

Good luck.
LJ


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

Could be time for a different queen to lead that hive.


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## Bees of SC (Apr 12, 2013)

At this point you may have to much room or to few bees to take care of the hive, add bees and comb as stated above. You may need a smaller box. If you take 2 people, a couple, put them in a 4 room house to clean and take care of, they can. If you take the same people, put them in a 12 room house to do the same work it will bee slower, it is called demoralization. you need the bees to cover the room in the hive space.
The bees will attach wax to a wood starter strip better than you can. Use fish line to help...This is all Just My Opinion...


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

I have a couple top bar hives. What I would do if I were you Chrissy is to get some combs from another beekeeper who uses langstroth hives. I mean beg your club for some frames with plastic foundations and drawn combs. Use a circular saw, a cordless drill, and basically cut the frames to fit your hive. Use the drill to drill holes into the foundations at the top and use zip ties or twist ties to hold the plastic in. It works!

You will need to fasten 1/4 inch spacers to each side of the frames and cut the staples (you will see).

Once you have some solid combs that wont fall your hive will take off and start working. Try to get 5 if you can but even one would really help. Good luck.


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## cbird (Jan 19, 2014)

Such great ideas-thanks so much! I have lots to do now. I may report back if anything interesting happens. The hardest part is making sure I don't move the queen if I give them brood, that worries me. But I can do many other things which is great. Thank you!


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## my2cents (Jul 9, 2015)

feed 1:1 syrup. And this will induce an artificial flow. This will encourage them to build comb and will encourage the queen to lay brood. DO not stop feeding until the hive has become stable and self reliant. Meaning plenty bees and plenty stores. Just know, that the 1:1 syrup will not make edible honey and isn't suitable to harvest. Let them keep it in their stores. Once the hive is stable, and a natural flow is in, you can move forward to obtain honey. My2Cents


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## cbird (Jan 19, 2014)

Well, I just went into the hive to do several things that were suggested in this thread....and Oh My Gosh the hive looks to be thriving. I had left some honey for them when I had inspected it just before starting this thread and had done nothing else. They have more than quadrupled in numbers and have built a ton of comb. But as I was going through the hive in amazement I started to realize-there still isn't much honey here compared to other hives I have seen. So, does this mean it is more likely a queen issue? Or because the bees must be quite young they haven't caught up to all the duties yet?


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## Life is Good! (Feb 22, 2013)

cbird said:


> They have more than quadrupled in numbers and have built a ton of comb. But as I was going through the hive in amazement I started to realize-there still isn't much honey here compared to other hives I have seen.


YEAH girls! You've got a good queen in there, able to build up more numbers quickly. They'll be ok I think....

First, the bees need to make more workers. Then, they need to make more comb. Then they can go for foraging. Ask other beekeepers to see when your fall flow will happen in your area...that's when they'll start bringing in tons of nectar and pollen to brood up for the winter's brood.

In the meantime, give them honey - real honey from another hive if you can - real honey from another beekeeper - real honey from a farmers market....source isn't that important, just avoid honey from the grocery if you can because often the 'honey' isn't real stuff. I'm still offering real honey to my hive started in April....they're still taking it....and storing it....so if it helps them get through the winter, then next spring I can take it back! But I'd rather they make it through the winter on good stores than enjoying it myself.


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## my2cents (Jul 9, 2015)

I do not, repeat I do not pull honey from one hive and place it in another. Even in my own yard with my own bees. One hive may become contaminated and then I would have 2 contaminated hives. Whether it bee mites, pesticide or other issues. I simply feed the syrup. They will build stores from the syrup. One thing that is often not mentioned, but should be recommended more often. Most beeks want more honey and want to rush the colony. Never give the bees more space than they need. I only add another super when the preceding one(s) are 80 - 90% full. I watch the outer frames. When I see them working those frames, I add another super.
It is good news the numbers have increased. But, If you do not see stores, continue to feed. Once they ar4 heavy, stop feeding.
BTW, the only way a queen will be produced is if they have royal jelly. And feeding them honey can cause them to want to swarm. Additionally, honey will ferment and can introduce other toxins and spores into your colony.
My2Cents


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