# Fondant is a pain



## xcugat (Mar 4, 2008)

Hello,

I would like some assistance in the making of fondant. 

My receipe calls for sugar, water and small amount of vineger.

Heat to 234 and then stop heat. When the temperature drops below 200 stir and pour into molds. 

First time I over heated it by 5 degrees and the resulting "candy" was grainy and hard as a rock

Second time I followed the temperature closely, and instead of fondant I ended up with neatly made sugar bricks. 

I see that this thread here


http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?263746-Sugar-Blocks/page2
shows the same temperature to heat to to make BRICKS, but I was aiming for soft fondant. 

I am no candy maker, but isnt beekeepers fondant supposed to be like play dough and soft?

someone tell me my blunder


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## philip.devos (Aug 10, 2013)

Fondant IS a pain. I did the candy thermometer thing, as you did, 2 seasons ago; the result was OK, like taffy. This last fall I mixed sugar, water and raw apple cider vinegar into a slurry, and placed it on a mold to lose the water and become firm, for about 2 - 3 weeks. That worked out to be much easier. There are several different recipes. MIne is:

1/2 cup Braggs apple cider vinegar
2-1/2 cups water
10 pound bag of sugar.

I mixed in a 5 gallon bucket, and dumped the mixture onto a plastic tote lid which I had greased with vegetable oil, then put newspaper. (when the stuff dries it tends to stick). The cake was about 3/4 to 1 inch thick. It came out somewhat crumbly, and tended to break up, but the girls liked it.
NO COOKING! Just let it sit undisturbed for at least 2 weeks.

I used it as winter emergency food.

Hope you can find a better recipe.


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## T0ADMAN (Aug 5, 2011)

Why do you want it to be soft? I like my sugar to be hard enough to not fall through the frames. But then again I put mine on early and want it to also soak up the moisture. There is never a problem for my bees to get enough moisture to eat it.


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## KPeacock (Jan 29, 2013)

i have never tried fondant. I saw my wife make some for a cake she wasdecorating and though to myself, "Are you kidding me? My bees don't need anything this labor intensive and messy." I just mix water with sugar (a pint per 10#, so about 1.5oz per pound) and pack into whatever mold or shape i want. next day its solid as a rock. Ity's easy to make, easy to feed, and best of all, it can be done outside (betond my wifes sphere of control) and dirties no more than a bucket, a stick from the yard (used to stir) and a water measuring device. I just eyeball the water amount as poured from a gallon jug.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

I have successfully made fondant that resembles purchased baker's fondant. Baker's fondant is made with sugar, water, and corn syrup. 

AND YES! It's an awful task to make actual fondant that isn't grainy. 

Otto Brehm in Yonkers is where some of us buy 50 pound blocks of the stuff for about $44


SugarBags are cheaper than fondant and easier than "cakes" imo....


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## bruce todd (May 11, 2010)

Listen to Beecurious! Go down to Otto Brehm in Yonkers and buy some. Thats where we get it. $42.00 for 50 pounds.
Phone # 914 968-6100. Tell them your a beekeeper, the salesman at the first desk on the left will treat you very well.


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## ShawnL (Apr 21, 2012)

I can't speak for other recipes, but I make this one: http://candy.about.com/od/fondantcandyrecipes/r/basic_fondant.htm

This is the only receipe I've used and it's turned out perfect every time. As long as you don't leave it exposed to air, it stays flexible even when frozen. The bees like it. My only recommendation is to ensure you stir constantly to prevent burning and remove the solution from the heat source once it hits 235-240.


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## Andrew Dewey (Aug 23, 2005)

I buy my fondant already made - two 50lb blocks this year. Yes qty is an issue for someone with a few hives.


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

Andrew Dewey said:


> I buy my fondant already made - two 50lb blocks this year. Yes qty is an issue for someone with a few hives.


:thumbsup:


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## D Coates (Jan 6, 2006)

Where do you find it?


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## TNTBEES (Apr 14, 2012)

Use Lauri Millers recipe for sugar blocks. No cooking, easy and the bees love them. She also has a great pollen sub. recipe. You can find the recipes on this forum or at her facebook page. Miller Compound and Agriculture. My 12 colonies thrive on both her recipes. Follow her recipes exactly and make sure you mix well and compact the sugar well into what ever form you use. Doesn't get any easier or cheaper. My hives are going through two big scoops of pollen sub per week right now as we are weeks away from natural pollen.


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

D Coates said:


> Where do you find it?


I get mine through a doughnut shop. They just add it to their order and sell it to me. Comes in 50# blocks and is easy to use. Try a bakery or a doughnut shop. Some get theirs through WalMart's bakery - I've never tried that. Dawn foods also sells it if you have a distributor in the area.


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

I have made cooked blocks and raw blocks that I dry. I prefer working with the cooked blocks.
5lb sugar, 2 cups water boil to 240 degrees and pour out into 1.5" deep aluminum cake pans. Do 2 pots at a time and sometimes double up on batch size. If I run out of time will do an uncooked batch like Lauri posted.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Gelatin or glycerin is added to make fondant more like dough. I don't know if these two ingredients will harm bees. I don't see why you can't just spray / mist the sugar to make it stick together and solidify. Your feeding bees not baking a cake.


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## xcugat (Mar 4, 2008)

Thanks for all the replies on this.

Other than Bee curious, has anyone else made bee "fondant" that was soft--fondant is supposed to be soft otherwise it is a misnomer and instead is just a sugar brick

Maybe beekeepers mean sugar bricks when they say fondant?

View attachment 9687
View attachment 9688
View attachment 9689


Here is my second attempt on this--the first time it was a crumbly mess, the second time nice bricks, but I reused the sugar and I fear that I may have burnt it--note the off white color and slight carmalized smell.

People say that "burnt" sugar is deadly to bees--is this really the case or just oft repeated?

Would you call this burnt then?


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## xcugat (Mar 4, 2008)

Here is my second attempt on this--the first time it was a crumbly mess, the second time nice bricks, but I reused the sugar and I fear that I may have burnt it--note the off white color and slight carmalized smell.

People say that "burnt" sugar is deadly to bees--is this really the case or just oft repeated?

Would you call this burnt then?


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## rwlaw (May 4, 2009)

Scorched sugar is supposed to give bees dysentery, wouldn't know, if I thought that I burnt a batch, I'd give it to my bear hunting buds. They got a lot of bait for one reason or another lol!
Ya, yours looks a little dark, keep trying, it's not an art but once you catch on, first time everytime!


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Commercially made fondant does not necessarily contain gelatin or glycerin. See this ad listing fondant in truckload quantities made only from sugar, corn syrup and water:
http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...ar-and-Fondant-for-sale&p=1075205#post1075205


High heating of sugar (burnt sugar) can lead to formation of HMF (hydroxymethylfurfural), which can be toxic to honeybees if they get too much of it. More here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroxymethylfurfural


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

Like Radar said, the fondant I get is only sugar, HFCS and water.


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## Marysia2 (May 23, 2014)

camero7 said:


> Like Radar said, the fondant I get is only sugar, HFCS and water.


I thought high-fructose corn syrup was bad for bees?


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## Just Krispy (Aug 1, 2013)

Sugar bricks that go in between layers of bee pro 
25# sugar
1 quart cider vinegar (4 cups)
pinch of electrolytes and vitamins 
pinch of citric acid (canning dept)
splash of lemongrass and/or spearmint oil
Put sugar on cookie sheet and pack down with rolling pin. 
Sprinkle bee pro on bottom of cookie sheet and on top of rolled out sugar
Cut into bricks before they harden
Bake at lowest setting for an hour or until hard


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## Just Krispy (Aug 1, 2013)

TNTBEES said:


> Use Lauri Millers recipe for sugar blocks. No cooking, easy and the bees love them. She also has a great pollen sub. recipe. You can find the recipes on this forum or at her facebook page. Miller Compound and Agriculture. My 12 colonies thrive on both her recipes. Follow her recipes exactly and make sure you mix well and compact the sugar well into what ever form you use. Doesn't get any easier or cheaper. My hives are going through two big scoops of pollen sub per week right now as we are weeks away from natural pollen.


This is Lauris recipe
Sugar bricks that go in between layers of bee pro 
25# sugar
1 quart cider vinegar (4 cups)
pinch of electrolytes and vitamins 
pinch of citric acid (canning dept)
splash of lemongrass and/or spearmint oil
Put sugar on cookie sheet and pack down with rolling pin. 
Sprinkle bee pro on bottom of cookie sheet and on top of rolled out sugar
Cut into bricks before they harden
Bake at lowest setting for an hour or until hard


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

As long as you didn't burn it, it will be fine. Use it. Next time just use dry sugar and save all the work.


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

Acebird said:


> Gelatin or glycerin is added to make fondant more like dough. I don't know if these two ingredients will harm bees. I don't see why you can't just spray / mist the sugar to make it stick together and solidify. Your feeding bees not baking a cake.


not the commercial blocks I buy. It's sugar, corn syrup and water. Nothing else.


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## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

Fondant may be a pain but if I put some sugar brick and some fondant on top of the frames the bees are straight on to the fondant. I suspect it is because the heating of the sugar and corn syrup with cider vinegar to 145 degrees inverts the sugar which becomes sweeter than normal sugar.
Johno


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

johno said:


> Fondant may be a pain but if I put some sugar brick and some fondant on top of the frames the bees are straight on to the fondant. I suspect it is because the heating of the sugar and corn syrup with cider vinegar to 145 degrees inverts the sugar which becomes sweeter than normal sugar.
> Johno


There isn't any vinegar in baker's fondant. 

The list of ingredients short:


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

Your right fondant is a pain as are candy boards et all. Make sugar bricks in the minimalist manner. Two cups of water with any vinegar or magic potion you may desire poured on ten pounds of granulated sugar in a big bowl. Stir and get it all damp. Pack the sugar in a large Dixie brand coated paper soup bowl or cheap equivalent. A paper lunch bag would work. Let it dry for a few days and you are done. No heating, no thermometers no spills you can't just sweep up. Can be done right before you go to the hive when you see it is a nice day out. It must be too easy for the no pain no gain crowd.


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## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

Bee curios if you are buying bakers fondant I cannot see it being much of a pain! Making it is a pain that is well worth it in my estimation as my bees prefer it to sugar bricks now I cannot speak for your bees.
Johno


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## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

Winter in the northern part of Virginia is too close to the Arctic circle for poor sub tropical Africans like me, so that is the time for cooking baking and other activities to help warm the home. Making fondant is one of these activities, years ago I would pick strawberries in June and then in the heat load up the AC while making strawberry jam but as I grew older and hopefully wiser ground and froze the berries and now make jam in the winter. Now I know you guys up north of me do not have the time to make fondant as you are probably hunting seals and polar bears while I am making fondant.
Johno


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

johno said:


> Bee curios if you are buying bakers fondant I cannot see it being much of a pain! Making it is a pain that is well worth it in my estimation as my bees prefer it to sugar bricks now I cannot speak for your bees.
> Johno


Johno, 

I have made fondant several times and it's a pain. THAT is why I purchase blocks of fondant now... 

This is an example of what I made:


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## Marysia2 (May 23, 2014)

camero7 said:


> not the commercial blocks I buy. It's sugar, corn syrup and water. Nothing else.


Everything I've seen online, when it lists the ingredients, has glycerin, gelatin, and all kinds of other stuff. Can you *share* with us where you get yours?


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

Marysia2 said:


> Everything I've seen online, when it lists the ingredients, has glycerin, gelatin, and all kinds of other stuff. Can you *share* with us where you get yours?


Contact a bakery supply company. What you're looking for is "Baker's Fondant", and it comes in 50 pound blocks. 

You might not like the price, but the bees love it, and you'll appreciate the convenience.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

NO! Canadian Honkers, Mallards and Mule deer. I am too south for seals and Polar bears and too north for chiggers and fire ants. My bees winter fine on dry granulated sugar.


johno said:


> Winter in the northern part of Virginia is too close to the Arctic circle for poor sub tropical Africans like me, so that is the time for cooking baking and other activities to help warm the home. Making fondant is one of these activities, years ago I would pick strawberries in June and then in the heat load up the AC while making strawberry jam but as I grew older and hopefully wiser ground and froze the berries and now make jam in the winter. Now I know you guys up north of me do not have the time to make fondant as you are probably hunting seals and polar bears while I am making fondant.
> Johno


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

BeeCurious said:


> Contact a bakery supply company. What you're looking for is "Baker's Fondant", and it comes in 50 pound blocks. You might not like the price, but the bees love it, and you'll appreciate the convenience.


 I paid $50 a block this fall - works out to $1 lb.


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## Marysia2 (May 23, 2014)

Acebird said:


> Gelatin or glycerin is added to make fondant more like dough. I don't know if these two ingredients will harm bees. I don't see why you can't just spray / mist the sugar to make it stick together and solidify. Your feeding bees not baking a cake.


I finally found 2 sources of fondant "base" that doesn't have the gelatin, glycerin, palm oil, flavoring, coloring, etc, etc.

One is Karp's Fondant, 50 pounds for $35.98 but shipping is $28.50; the ingredients are: LIQUID SUGAR, CORN SYRUP.

Another one is Pastry 1 Extra White Fondant: 17.6 pounds for $63.50, free shipping if order is over $75; the ingredients are SUGAR, GLUCOSE SYRUP, WATER

Does anyone see a problem with the ingredients in either of these?


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

Mountain Camp method of feeding.....


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

I paid .361 cents per pound. works great.


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## SS1 (Jun 1, 2013)

Perhaps those of you using Fondant can explain WHY you prefer the more expensive and time consuming route??

I used to put fondant on hives when the bakery here in town was in business. My Mentor traded Honey for that fondant.. I found it to be rather messy to deal with in comparison to sugar cakes.. what we started using after the bakery closed in 1979..

Granulated sugar.. Mix with a bit of water... Pour in aluminum turkey pan, flatten, and score.. wait a day and take it out, pour in more, flatten it out...... At the end of each day we made them. It was fast and simple. They absorb moisture, and they keep the bees alive in the event of a HARSH winter or in the event that they are not very frugal with their resources..
Is this not the purpose? Fondant, Candy board, winter patties.. even granulated sugar poured on paper.. its JUST to get them through in the event they HAVE TO HAVE something to keep them alive....

Pictures of my sugar cakes about a third of the way down the page.. http://outyard.weebly.com/wintering.html

Pics of what the hives with Granulated sugar will look like in the spring at the top of the page..
http://outyard.weebly.com/spring.html


If you have the time, and truly WISH to spend that time making candy board and fondant etc.. I say go for it!! Beyond that, I have never seen a difference in how fussy the bees were when faced with starvation.. I like to do things as simply as possible...

"Perfection in beekeeping is not found in a multiplicity of appliances, but in simplicity and the elimination of everything not absolutely essential." -- Brother Adam

Simple is usually better.. 
But, isnt Sugar BAD for the bees?
Honey actually contains the same basic sugar units as table sugar. Both contain glucose and fructose. Granulated table sugar, or sucrose, has glucose and fructose hooked together, whereas in honey, fructose and glucose remain in individual units.

Remember, What we want to do, is keep them alive until we can do better than granulated sugar, or fondant, or candy board etc.. KEEP THEM ALIVE!!
If you were about to starve to death, and someone offered you Bread and butter.. ALL you could eat, but you couldnt have anything else.. would you say.. No thanks, that diet would not be good for me??
No, you'd eat the bread and butter.. It seems to me, that DYING is not good for you, or your bees!
So I ask you.. do you really need to get fancy and make such a mess?



Candy or bakers fondant was first used to feed bees in the 18thcentury because it was the purest form of sugar then available. 
https://secure.fera.defra.gov.uk/beebase/downloadNews.cfm?id=121

we have been feeding them fondant for a LONG time! I just like simple and easy.


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## Marysia2 (May 23, 2014)

SS1 said:


> Perhaps those of you using Fondant can explain WHY you prefer the more expensive and time consuming route??


Some bees won't touch the stuff (hard candy). It's only time consuming if you make it yourself...which I, personally, have no intention of doing. I bought the bucket of pre-made fondant. I'll report back if the bees eat it or send it back to the kitchen.


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

> Perhaps those of you using Fondant can explain WHY you prefer the more expensive and time consuming route??


because I have historically had better winter survival using it over plain sugar. This year I'm trying Lauri's recipe on half my nucs, fondant on the remainder. Should be a good test. I believe that sugar which isn't inverted is more problematic.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Research would show that inverted syrup using cream of tartar actually shortens their lives and damages their gut:
http://www.apimondia.com/congresses...ine Health Of Honey Bees - Goran Mirjanic.pdf

"But, bee researcher Leslie Bailey in the book “Honey Bee Pathology” mentions cream of tartar decreasing the life span of bees. Diana Sammataro mentions in “The Beekeeper’s Handbook” cream of tartar is no longer recommended for that same reason."--Dick Allen


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## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

How about inverted sugar using cider vinegar, any research on that.
Johno


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## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

I make fondant with sugar corn syrup cider vinegar and water heated to 245* cooled then poured into molds then broken into slabs when cold. My bees ignore sugar bricks in favor of the fondant.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

johno said:


> I make fondant with sugar corn syrup cider vinegar and water heated to 245* cooled then poured into molds then broken into slabs when cold. My bees ignore sugar bricks in favor of the fondant.


So, what's the recipe? And how do you get the water heated to 245?


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

johno said:


> View attachment 14405
> I make fondant with sugar corn syrup cider vinegar and water heated to 245* cooled then poured into molds then broken into slabs when cold. My bees ignore sugar bricks in favor of the fondant.


You seem to be making a sugar brick-like material and calling it "fondant". Fondant doesn't "break into slabs". 

Fondant doesn't crumble...


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>How about inverted sugar using cider vinegar, any research on that.

I don't know of any but there may be some.


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## Matt F (Oct 7, 2014)

johno said:


> View attachment 14405
> I make fondant with sugar corn syrup cider vinegar and water heated to 245* cooled then poured into molds then broken into slabs when cold. My bees ignore sugar bricks in favor of the fondant.


John those are great sugar bricks but not fondant.
SNL, he means he heats them after they're in the mold to dry and harden the bricks.

I made a very simple one this weekend, and I've never done this before. Put a bunch of sugar in a bowl, added apple cider vinegar until the sugar was damp, and sprinkled some vitamin/stimulant in there because I had an ounce left. I didn't even measure anything...pressed the slurry into a cookie sheet in the oven on low for 20 minutes then turned the oven off and let it sit in the warm oven for another hour. I got a brick about an inch thick and solid enough to put on top of the frames without breaking, we'll see if they eat it. Working time was about 5 minutes!


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## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

Think he is using a candy thermometer and boiling the water/sugar mixture and taking the temperature up to 245F and then removing it from the heat.

It won't be a fondant but rather sets to be a hard candy block.


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## jcolon (Sep 12, 2014)

Is clear you can make beekeeping as hard or as easy as you like. Your choice.


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## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

You can make my recipe into a soft fondant if you wish but that just makes work for yourself. I heat it a little more to 245* rapidly cool it while stirring and pour into a mold, the stuff sets to a consistency of fudge if you guys know about fudge. The heating of the sugar with cider vinegar I believe inverts the sugar, I know because I eat any little bits from the scoring. I made a mold with the bottom made from 1/4" hardboard 4 feet long and 6" wide with the sides made from 3/4' strips of pine, lay parchment paper in the mold and when it has cooled and set just tip it out. I make about 6lbs at a time


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## Jaseemtp (Nov 29, 2010)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SX3sPSx62T8&list=UUyEnjVwYfqCOIiV7j7cCLeg

This is what I do for mine. Yes it is more brick like but the bees consume or toss all of it out. They seem to enjoy it and has helped out some weaker hives that would have starved.


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## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

I do not make bakers fondant I make bee fondant, the recipe is quite simple
5lbs of sugar
16 oz of light corn syrup 
3 Tble spoons of cider vinegar then add water to a volume of 1 1/3 cups.
pour the corn syrup into a large pot, put the water vinegar mix into the corn syrup bottle shake and pour into the pot heat on high heat mix the water and corn syrup, add half the sugar and mix when freeof lumps add the other half of sugar heat while stirring. when it starts to boil at about 230* watch the temp and keep stirring until you reach 245*. remove the pot and sit it into cold water continue stirring as it thickens until it starts to look creamy. I then put it back onto the gas ring and keep stirring, I am actually heating up the pot so that most of the fondant comes out of the pot easily when I pour it into the mold. It takes about I/2 an hour to make and I will often make 2 batches on cold mornings. 
Johno


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## pascal (Oct 1, 2010)

I make a lot of fondant each early springs and yes, it's a pain.
I mix 8-10lbs of sugar to 1/2 gallon of water, add half-cup white vinegar (for inversion) and heat. around 110C (230F), that's make foam, that's why I use a large pot. I try to stop around 115 (239F). To watch th temperature I use an inexpensive electric controler with a thermic probe. Then, I let the mix decrease without agitation to 70C (158F). It still looks like syrup. After that I begin the agitation still it get white (it's long!). This way I obtain really soft fondant that I pour in ziplock. With 4 pots rolling I can make 50 pounds of fondant in a 4 hours evening....the longer it's the time needed to cool the mix.


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## Sr. Tanya (Feb 9, 2007)

I'm still using the dry sugar on newspaper but would like to try the fondant or brick next year. Is there a possibility of adding too much vinegar and I don't know where to get the vitamin addition.

Is it better to spray the dry sugar with water?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Is it better to spray the dry sugar with water?

I only spray it a little to get it to clump so it doesn't run through the paper and they are less likely to haul it out for trash. Then I spray a little extra on the front edge to get them to recognize it as sugar (again, so they won't haul it out for trash).


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

> Is there a possibility of adding too much vinegar and I don't know where to get the vitamin addition.


there is a short learning curve. If you add too much just takes longer to dry. Get the vitamins at ValleyVet.com. A little goes a long way.


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## Sr. Tanya (Feb 9, 2007)

Thanks, Michael. Do you use vinegar at all?

Tanya


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## Sr. Tanya (Feb 9, 2007)

Thanks Cam.
Tanya


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## jwhiteker (Apr 1, 2013)

Has anyone tried any fondant recipe that uses marshmallows for a main ingredient? I'm not sure if this would be feasible for bee health or not, but my sister in law is a baker by trade and her go-to fondant recipe is mini marshmallows, powdered sugar and water.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Thanks, Michael. Do you use vinegar at all?

No.

>Has anyone tried any fondant recipe that uses marshmallows for a main ingredient?

The closer you get to pure sugar the better. Bees don't do well in winter with solids.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshmallow


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## Blaster (Mar 30, 2012)

Constant sturring like in a kitchen aid is the key.


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## Marysia2 (May 23, 2014)

Michael Bush said:


> Research would show that inverted syrup using cream of tartar actually shortens their lives and damages their gut:
> http://www.apimondia.com/congresses...ine Health Of Honey Bees - Goran Mirjanic.pdf


I couldn't access this URL - says I don't have permission or my security settings don't allow it, blah blah. 

Can someone send this article to me? I'm specifically interested in the cream of tartar research. Thanks.

[email protected]


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I don't have any special permissions and it works fine for me... but you should see it in your email soon...


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

The document referencing cream of tartar that Michael linked in post #41 is a PDF document, and some systems don't automatically know how to deal with PDFs. If you are having issues opening the document, make sure your system has Adobe Acrobat/Reader (or equivalent) installed. If you are not sure, you can install/reinstall a _free _version of Reader from this link:

http://get.adobe.com/reader/

Note that getting the document via email probably won't solve the problem unless you install Reader (unless an equivalent is already installed).


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Once he has the actual document he can take it to the library to read it or any machine that has Adobe R.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Go to the library? :scratch: 

If you choose to solve the problem by installing Reader (available via a _free_ download/link) on the system that doesn't already have it, then you solve the problem for this instance, and for every _future _PDF document that you might want to read. 

If you deal with problem by going to the library to use their computer, then you will have to go to the library _every time_ you want to read _another _PDF document.


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## Marysia2 (May 23, 2014)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> The document referencing cream of tartar that Michael linked in post #41 is a PDF document, and some systems don't automatically know how to deal with PDFs. ...Note that getting the document via email probably won't solve the problem unless you install Reader (unless an equivalent is already installed).


I don't have problems opening .pdf files - it was a problem accessing the .pdf file on the site. At any rate, M.B. sent me the file as an attachment and there was no problem opening it. But the information in that research just leads to more questions about acid inverted sugar vs. enzyme inverted sugar and on and on. 

Less complicated to follow M.B.'s lead and feed them cane sugar spritzed with water and be done with it.


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## Lazy K (6 mo ago)

Blaster said:


> Constant sturring like in a kitchen aid is the key.


I made my first fondant yesterday. Just sugar , water, vinegar. It turned out crumbly. I took Blaster's advice, put it back in the kitchenaid and just kept beating it. After about 5 mins it turned into a paste/clay texture and I was able to roll it out and put it in plastic. Today it is still soft and I'll put some in the hives and see if all the work was worth it.


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## Fivej (Apr 4, 2016)

For those that still use fondant, can you tell me why you would choose it over sugar bricks? I don't see why you would but am curious and open- minded about it. J


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## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

Well I tell you a few years back I put a sugar brick and a fondant brick on the frames of a hive and checked them from time to time. Every time I checked bees were full on the fondant and nothing on the brick. So I guess I will leave it up to the bees to choose. The fondant I made contained high fructose corn syrup and sugar, as far as I could tell it was sweeter than the sugar possibly do to inverting some of the sugar in the heating process. So In these Covid times with empty supermarket shelves I was unable to get the high fructose corn syrup so put a pound of honey into the recipe and man it tasted real good and the bees agreed. However I did not use it all and generally you can keep it until next winter, but not with the honey added as it leached out of the fondant in the hot weather.


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## Lazy K (6 mo ago)

I'm new at this but the Sugar bricks I made require a container or they just fall apart so you are limited to the space you can use them in. The fondant can be rolled out as thin as pollen patties and only require plastic wrap as a container so they will fit easily under or over an inner cover. And while we have cold nights where I live day time temps in the winter are often warm enough that I can check and replace the fondant patties when needed. Still experimenting so I'm opened to new ideas.


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## viesest (Jul 13, 2016)

Lazy K said:


> Still experimenting so I'm opened to new ideas.


On BEE-L was a post, that even a small amount of HMF is harmful to bees if they are confined. I had high losses in year when I was feeding bees with home made fondant for winter stores, but in that year I didn't treat against nosema and there was honeydew flow. It is unlikely that nosema was the cause because all swarms perished, but established colonies survived (80%). Swarms had higher percentages of honeydew and fondant in their winter food. Maybe the honeydew was the sole reason for losses but I am also suspicious about HMF in fondant.


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## joebeewhisperer (May 13, 2020)

I have a bunch of foil sheet cake pans (probably 3.5" deep, and I've played around with a few different things. For now I fill them 3/4 or so, add a small amount of warm water, stir (though the contents still have almost dry spots, then stack them for maybe a week. Since they are beveled, moisture from the air is free to come and go at the ends. Last year I did this while goldenrod was in full swing and left them on the porch. In a dearth, I'd bring them inside.

I would just break off a chunk or two and use where needed. 

Not sure if I'll use any sugar this year. Strongest 2 colonies out of winter had no sugar added. I'm examining a lot of things like this, particularly pollen sub. But I'm in TN, so we are not talking Montana winters. Fondant could be great where you need it, but I think I rejected the idea early-on after reading a post that said you could mess it up by over-heating. 

I do enjoy reading everyone's experiences, and often learn something that is directly or indirectly useful.


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## ursa_minor (Feb 13, 2020)

Lazy K said:


> I'm new at this but the Sugar bricks I made require a container or they just fall apart so you are limited to the space you can use them in.


If they are made with enough moisture, packed hard and given enough time to dry down they will not crumble and chunks can be placed directly on the frames. If a whole sheet is put on the suggestion is to place a couple of 1/2" strips of wood to put them on.

I tried fondant once and it didn't turn out, the making of it was not worth the bother for me. My biggest concern was that if I did not get the consistency perfect, which is certainly possible, they could melt and drip down on the bees. Harder would not be a problem but sticky and dripping would not be good. 

My sugar bricks are very solid. I switched to dry sugar last winter but found it a PITA to apply more. The bees would eat the bottom newspaper and when I poured more sugar it would run down and thru the bars to the bottom. Laying a new paper with the exiting hard lump of sugar in place was neither quick or easy which is essential on a cold day. 

I put mine in my dehydrator for a couple of hours but leaving them out on a cookie tray for a few weeks was sufficient.


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

I bought the Golden Barrel creme fondant 2 years ago in a 50# block and cut it up and sealed the pieces in saran wrap. Bees loved them. Stored a bunch of it, which irritated me. Cost more than sugar did so I am back to sugar bricks, which they also tear through. We have warm winters here in coastal, VA and it gives the bees something to do when it's too cold to forage. If I put them in Nov 1, they are gone before the end of Nov so now I try and get them in early Dec. They work the sugar bricks before they hit the real capped stores and I prefer they use them to rear the spring brood.


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## Alto Beek (Jun 26, 2021)

Fivej said:


> For those that still use fondant, can you tell me why you would choose it over sugar bricks? I don't see why you would but am curious and open- minded about it. J


I use Hive Alive fondant patties through the winter when its too cold for syrup. I like the convenience (plastic wrapped) and the added supplement. Bit pricey but for my small operation it works. My hives did well on it last winter .









HiveAlive Fondant Patty


2 options available, pack of 6 and pack of 15. Please choose from dropdown menu above. Other purchasing options Find your nearest retailer Purchase on Amazon.com For commercial pricing, please contact us for details at [email protected] SHIPS TO CONTIGUOUS US STATES ONLY. For availability...




usa.hivealivebees.com


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I've never understood the point of candy boards and fondant. Dry sugar with just enough water misted on to make it clump up works just as well in my experience.




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Beekeeping, feeding bees, Michael Bush


Beekeeping, feeding bees, Michael Bush. This is a discussion on when to feed, how to feed, and what to feed your bees.




bushfarms.com


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