# Building frame feeder glue type/sealing?



## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

When using Tempered hardboard (shinny both sides) do you guys use a different type of glue, rough the edges, or use different fasteners (staples). I have some left over tempered hardboard and am making some mini nucs feeders. I have seen some of the old timers made their own in just about every old equipment pile I have ever seen.
How about sealing? I noted the Brushy Mt. Miller type feeders look to have a heavy Poly or epoxy coating on the edges. 
how do you make the part of the feeder that rests on the frame? aluminum angle? scrap wood or plywood scrap?


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

If my memory is correct, (questionable) Abby warre was a big fan of assembling the feeders with wet paint in the joints. I have two that I have built, and both leak to some extent. I did not use anything in the joints and mostly just painted the inside. It wasn't enough to stop all seapage but I did use wood that was questionable as to how dry it was and it may have still been a bit green. I still use them and hold my breath cause they are nice if they didn't leak so much.

I hope the paint thing does not send you in the wrong direction and I have not tried it yet.
gww

Ps Abby also said a new coat of paint usually stops any new leaks. That has not worked for me yet.


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## BGhoney (Sep 26, 2007)

I melt wax and run a puddle all around my seams in all my feeders , works great.


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## Dan the bee guy (Jun 18, 2015)

I thought about making feeders and I will use the food grade epoxy paint that I used on my old extractor. Paint all the edges and put them together wet.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

BG....


> I melt wax and run a puddle all around my seams in all my feeders , works great.


I am going to try this with my bad already built ones. Can't believe I didn't think of it. 
Thanks
gww


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

I've built hundreds. Always used subfloor adhesive, or exterior adhesive like best grade liquid nails. All joints in frame need adhesive, as well as the masonite sides. Trying to seal them on the outside of the seams is asking for leaks.


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## fatshark (Jun 17, 2009)

For mini-nucs I use fondant frame feeders. Less to spill when moving the mini-nucs, or when topping up. Simply fill them at home and swap them. And nothing to seal ;-)









And, as you can see, perfectly OK with really terrible woodworking skills.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

I don't seal them, I use a interior bladder. But I only make them for mating nucs. 

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?332587-mini-nuc-home-made-frame-feeders

























Otherwise I use Pro feeders with cap & Ladder.


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

Found some of the old feeders yesterday! After trying to do a design one and figure out how to build one I now realize how brilliant these older beeks were. Rather than stapling the outside like Brushy and Lauri have done these feeders are made of ¾” Tx1 3/4”W stock. They ran a pair of full size saw kirfs (or maybe a slightly wider dato). The bottom is a simple rabbet, also with full Kirf. The Hardboard fits into the Kirfs on sides and bottoms. A short 2” piece fits in the top that is cut down to allow the end to fit on the frame rest, provide a good glue surface to the sides and hardboard.
It is so simple and yet effective! It would be difficult for this design to leak unless only the sloppiest of clamping was used (bold statement before the construction I know).


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## robirot (Mar 26, 2017)

Just srew 'em together. After that you set them in the oven at about 80°C for 10 min.
Then pour in melted wax and cover all walls. Until it stops leaking, done. If it ever starts leaking again, use a heat gun for resealing.

The best wood for making frame feedrs is phenolic bord, srew it together and seal the joints with silicone.


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

Thanks for all the input.
The end result is that I used what was lying around. I used some Gel Magic epoxy (had to be 10 years old) to see if it was still good. Used some Polyurethane glue, it was only open about 90 days but was already starting to jelly. I changed glue types when I ran out of clamps. I used a chip brush and put glue on all rabbets and on all hardboard edges going into a dato. I have used no fasteners or sealants at this time.
If I were got go build another dozen (or buy material) I think I would go with Palmers idea. The caulk tube idea would get into the slot easy. The joinery changed my process half way through.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

At least you got on it and I am guessing your process will improve, mine does, sometimes.
Cheers
gww


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## ApricotApiaries (Sep 21, 2014)

I glue and staple mine, then slosh some wax around the inside to fill the seams. Pretty quick and simple. 

Minz, a guy named Franz Jordy (Sno-Peak Apiaries i think), used to make thousands of wooden feeders for several commercial outfits around Oregon. When I talked to him several years ago he was older than dirt and I don't think he is around anymore, but a lot of his feeders are. They were pretty nicely built. I think he might have dipped the whole unit in paraffin. Which is nice, but not necessary, and requires a much larger set-up.


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## sebashtionh (Apr 6, 2016)

Lauri said:


> I don't seal them, I use a interior bladder. But I only make them for mating nucs.
> 
> http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?332587-mini-nuc-home-made-frame-feeders
> 
> ...


that is awesome I wish i seen this before i built 50 double mating nucs the full feeder Idea is great


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

8, half sized deep frames are a nice size. Large enough to hold a little longer than 18-20 days if queen removal is delayed.










After using this a couple years, 7 frames and a larger 1 1/2 gallon feeder would be even better. 
You don't have to fill the feeder, but you can if you want to do so at certain times of the year, you have the volume available to load them up. 7 half sized deep frames are a great size for generous mating nuc without being too big. Large enough to super (or combine)and overwinter too, if your climate is not too harsh.


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

I have used this guys technique for a water tight seal with wood and it works well. But it might be more work than people would want to do and 1/2" stock is about as thin as you can go. If I were building feeders this bladder idea would be the way I went about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PitVHP7omvY


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

Lauri said:


> 8, half sized deep frames are a nice size. QUOTE]
> 
> So you are building a center divider that stops at a new box wall with the feeder on the opposite side. Is the feeder sealed into that area so that the bees can not go down the sides and under it or do they recognize it as a separate area and not try to get from one side of the feeder area to the other?


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

rwurster said:


> I have used this guys technique for a water tight seal with wood and it works well. But it might be more work than people would want to do and 1/2" stock is about as thin as you can go. If I were building feeders this bladder idea would be the way I went about it.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PitVHP7omvY


Well that was cool. 
I attempted to see if mine were watertight by pouring them full of polyurethane finish (it was older than the epoxy). I found I had two leakers. I let them dry and hit them all again, now I have one slow leaker but very little scent. The finish was real old so I actually had to bring it in the house to cure. 
If I were doing it again with a product that I had to purchase I would have gone with Palmers idea of liquid nails in the datos. I would have bet on the polyglue filling the gaps in the dato's but the actual result was that the rabbet joint and high clamp pressure make the glue joint too narrow.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

The division board extends to the bottom and sides of the box and is tight, or sealed off from the feeder. The only access to the feeder is from the top.
Here is the thread for the construction:

http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...-for-feeding-when-nights-are-cold-spring-fall

There are easier ways to do this, less complicated. This was the prototype design, which works well but can be achieved more simply.


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

>I would have bet on the polyglue filling the gaps

Poly Gorilla Glue would work great for this also I would think. The only time I use it is for repairs as it fills in gaps while retaining a really strong glue bond and its waterproof.


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## sebashtionh (Apr 6, 2016)

thanks a lot there Lauri....... tore apart all my mating nucs last night...... lol 
do you have pictures of the feeder section at the bottom? i run SBB here in Florida so will have to modify the bottom, also do you run a partition down the middle of the feeder so bees don't cross when syrup is low or ladders don't touch the bottom?

sorry just seen your link to the instructions...... thanks


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