# grafting into nicot cups directly?



## stangardener (Mar 8, 2005)

i enclosed my queen for over twenty four hours (thirty six) and only got about five eggs laid. since my cell bar holds twenty cups any reason not to graft into the remaining fifteen cups directly? when i order more cups should i order a different type for grafting or are the better bee brown cell cups dual purpose? on a side note don't leave any cups in the sun, they'll warp real quick. thanks.


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## peggjam (Mar 4, 2005)

stangardener said:


> i enclosed my queen for over twenty four hours (thirty six) and only got about five eggs laid. since my cell bar holds twenty cups any reason not to graft into the remaining fifteen cups directly? when i order more cups should i order a different type for grafting or are the better bee brown cell cups dual purpose? on a side note don't leave any cups in the sun, they'll warp real quick. thanks.


From what i'm hearing, these systems are hit and miss. I don't see any reason you couldn't graft directly into these cups, but I have never tried it. The next time you order, why not just get regular grafting cells, either push in(ones that are pushed into a hole on the cell bar) or the other type that are placed in a saw kerf in the cell bar. Save yourself the hassle of messing with these no graft systems.


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## CWBees (May 11, 2006)

I don't see why you could not graft directly into the Nicot cups. I might try this if I don't get enough eggs laid in the queen cage. If you don't have a grafting tool is there anything else you could use to graft with until you purchase one?

Has anyone used the "251 - Automatic Grafting Tool 0039 26.00 
Pressure on thumb lever forces tongue out of tiny tube and under larva; relieve pressure to deposit larva in the artificial cell. Ship wt. 4 oz." that Kelly's sells?


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## peggjam (Mar 4, 2005)

You can take a piece of copper elect wire, 12ga, and hammer it down until it is paper thin, and then sand it to make it smooth. For a better grip wrap tape around the handle, either duct or elect should work ok.


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## Brandy (Dec 3, 2005)

I went through a period when I was having trouble getting larva the right age, vs. nectar in the nicot cells. Just to be on the safe side I gave the cell builder some of the extra brown nicot cell cups to clean in case I needed to graft into them vs. taking them out of the nicot. So the cell builder had them for a day, frame, cups etc.. Pulled out the nicot, yes, nectar, no larva. Removed another frame of larva from the breeder queen, pulled the now clean cell cups from the cell builder and grafted away. What I like about the nicot, in addition to larva the right age when it works, is the roller cages, plus all my frames are adaptable with the nicot bits and pieces. So, it's very adaptable for whatever situation.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

If I don't have as many larvae as I want I often graft the in between ones into either the Jenter cups or into some regular plastic cups. It's easier to do it from the Jenter box than soft new comb and it's easier to graft it into the Jenter plugs and then put the cup on. I don't have a Nicot, but they are pretty similar.


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## stangardener (Mar 8, 2005)

thanks for all the responses/help! i respect the comment about saving the hassle of no graft systems. i can see now that with experiance confining the queen and waiting for eggs to hatch are extra steps, there where four day old larva out there in abundance a week ago when i put the cage in to have it accepted  . i have no regrets about getting and using the system though. it's a confidence builder starting out. i know i've seen grafting age larva but i've never had them positively identified before. with the queen cage i will be able to see the proper age larva and know what i'm looking for. the roller cages are'nt something i would have gotten on my own and could likely save alot of heart ache. 
glad to have you back on the forums mr. bush. i have your day action concept written onto a calendar and it makes understanding the timing of steps very clear.


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## stangardener (Mar 8, 2005)

i certainly am batting zero with the nicot system. when i went in to retrieve my five four day old larva they where gone. someone came in and cleaned them all out. well, better now than later. also the glue that all those bits and pieces where atatched to the frame at betterbee didn't hold. again better now than later. tomarrow morning i'll graft. i also set up some miller method foundation strips.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Try putting the nicot/jenter box in the middle of some open brood of a strong hive. Also, feeding is helpful.


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## stangardener (Mar 8, 2005)

i grafted into the nicot cups today. the cups didn't look clean anymore so i don't expect much success, if any. i used larva from a second choice colony figuring my chosen colony wouldn't have any the proper age. i just took the youngest larva i could find and felt it went real smooth. i used a chinese tool but ordered a jz bz along with nicot and jz bz cups. i've been feeding the starter hive syrup and pollen patties but it didn't occur to me to feed the breeder hive. i did start feeding it this morning since i put miller strips into it. i'll be curious to see if i notice more milk in the cells with feeding.


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## Cristian Radut (Jul 15, 2007)

stangardener said:


> i enclosed my queen for over twenty four hours (thirty six) and only got about five eggs laid. since my cell bar holds twenty cups any reason not to graft into the remaining fifteen cups directly? when i order more cups should i order a different type for grafting or are the better bee brown cell cups dual purpose? on a side note don't leave any cups in the sun, they'll warp real quick. thanks.


Few hints:

1. Queen will refuse to lay eggs and bees also refuse to take care of them if the plastic cells aren't covered with few wax
2. Grafting in Nicot or Jenter cells (doesn't matter which) it's very functional if... see the condition mentioned above.

The wax is the secret!


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## JohnBeeMan (Feb 24, 2004)

I am in process of my first trials with the nicot. On the first attempt to get queeny to lay - nothing after 30 hours. I put the empty system back into hive and let them clean it for another 24 hrs and then recaptured queen. On the second day I released her and 3 days later found over 25 1 day larva. While removing cups I noticed that most all the cups without larva did have a small touch of wax in bottom.

My question regards reusability of the cups. The instructions say they are not reusable. However, 1) does this apply to cups that have completed the queen cycle, 2) cups with larva that were never put into a cell builder, 3) cups with wax but never recieved an egg?

I also was thinking of attempting to graft into the nicot equipment and had even comsidered making my own wax queen cups and pushing them into the nicot top bar (this would allow for use of rollers).


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## Cristian Radut (Jul 15, 2007)

JohnBeeMan said:


> My question regards reusability of the cups. The instructions say they are not reusable. However, 1) does this apply to cups that have completed the queen cycle, 2) cups with larva that were never put into a cell builder, 3) cups with wax but never recieved an egg?


1. Yes, but they have to be cleaned after finishing the cycle, and then you'll put some hot liquid wax with a stick (a cylinder with 0,9 mm in diameter)
2. The small broun plastic queen cells are reusable, see upper...
3. Also reusable...

As a conclusion: all plastic cells are reusable, if cleaned and then refilled with few wax; all parts of interior cells shoud be "waxed".


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## Ray Michaud (Dec 7, 2005)

How do you clean the plastic cell cups


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## Cristian Radut (Jul 15, 2007)

Remove the old wax where the virgin queen laid using the top of a knife and then put hot wax with a stick that has 0,9 mm diameter. The bees will accept the larva more often. I'll make some pictures if you don't understand.


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