# Got Mann Lake's 2014 catalog today - it's getting cheaper to build your own!



## westernbeekeeper (May 2, 2012)

Got ML's great new 2014 catalog today. Very nicely laid out, and they have added quite a few great new products. BUT: unassembled frames are through the roof! Can hardly justify buying them anymore. As well as other woodenware - lots of high prices. Ah well, I'll still go to them in a pinch. But I can make my own great boxes for $7, frames for $0.62 each, bottom boards for $4, as well as others. 
But still...
Go Mann Lake! as always.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Did they still hide the Index somewhere in the middle?


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

sqkcrk said:


> Did they still hide the Index somewhere in the middle?


They are throwing us for a loop...it is on pages 88/89 out of 163 .Fold down the corner when you find it.


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## westernbeekeeper (May 2, 2012)

sqkcrk said:


> Did they still hide the Index somewhere in the middle?


Yah!!! One of the down sides.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I wonder why they do that? Why don't they put the index page on the cover? I gotta ask them next time I order.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

I would guess it's the same reason grocery stores change end cap displays and move products to different locations in the store. If you have to hunt a little harder for the index, you will be flipping through (and looking at) more pages in the catalog to find it.


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## melliferal (Aug 30, 2010)

I'm still waiting for mine. Hurry up, mail!

A shame to hear about the price jump; I'm hoping to get back into the bees this year if all goes according to plan and will need some new equipment; but only a small amount, so perhaps it won't be too bad of a jump to me.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

westernbeekeeper said:


> BUT: unassembled frames are through the roof!


I need to buy more frames, guess I waited too long. On average, what percentage have the unassembled frames increased?


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## Deepsouth (Feb 21, 2012)

Mike Gillmore said:


> I need to buy more frames, guess I waited too long. On average, what percentage have the unassembled frames increased?


They look about the same to me if you buy a case of 100 $0.78 a piece


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## My-smokepole (Apr 14, 2008)

Mike I would go to Wooster in March. There are a couple of Amish that have had frames at .64 cents or there about. The Quality-has all is been good. 
David


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

Mike Gillmore said:


> On average, what percentage have the unassembled frames increased?


Last two years they've jumped quite a bit. This past year not so much, from my records though.

2012 - 100 Wedge Top Groove Bottom frames - $0.79 each
2013 - 100 Wedge Top Groove Bottom frames - $0.84 each
2014 - 100 Wedge Top Groove Bottom frames - $0.85 each

I wasn't keeping track earlier than 2012, so I don't know what it was in '11 or earlier. I remember buying them for the high 0.60's, but who knows when that was.


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## Riskybizz (Mar 12, 2010)

Western Bee

I purchase a lot of supplies from Mann Lake but in your case I would think that Western Bee in Polson Mt. would be worth checking out when it comes to bulk orders of frames etc. There were here in October for the WAS and I spoke with them awhile. They mentioned that they could also be very competitive with pallet loads of shipments over 200#. I'm guessing you can purchase frames from them for a lot less than what you can make them for.


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

Heres a little hint. Frames!!!!!! Go pick them up when you show up to the almonds. You will save a bunch. I purchased another 5000 a few weeks back and after a little talk got them down a large handful of pennies. Contrary to what people think freight does costs and they will deduct something if you purchase enough and are willing to freight them yourself.

The market also will fix itself if they get to hotty totty in their pricing. I heard yesterday that a guy that used to post here quite frequently is now making frames commercially as well as boxes at a decent price. Will track him down and spread the word if the product is decent.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

My-smokepole said:


> Mike I would go to Wooster in March. There are a couple of Amish that have had frames at .64 cents or there about. The Quality-has all is been good.
> David


I try to go to the Workshop every year. You're exactly right, you can find good Amish woodenware at great prices there. March is too late in the year for me to buy woodenware though. I have to have all my assembly and painting completed before then. With increased work loads at my day job, spring bee management, coaching softball, etc, all starting up about then I have no time for building equipment. Not enough hours in the day. That's what winter is for. 
I guess if I used my head I could purchase materials for the following year. I just have trouble looking that far ahead.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

U can't find the Amish Shop that produces them and purchase them directly from them?


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

Probably could, not a bad idea. Don't think they will be in the phone book though. 

If I were buying thousands of frames it would make sense to locate them and buy direct. For a couple hundred frames .. I would probably waste more money in gas than the savings would bring. We have a couple of local distributors here who sell Mann Lake products for just about the same price as listed in the Mann Lake catalog. That's the route I usually take.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Certainly someone w/ a phone knows how to find them and their address. My local Amish equipment builder send out a list every December.

I used to have the phone number for Amish Washer Supply, Walnut Creek, OH. It was a pay phone in a horse shed.

I bet Jim Thompson knows how to get to them.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

Good point. I'm sure someone in Wayne County at the Tri-County Beekeepers Assoc would have contacts as well. Might be worth looking into.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I forget exactly where Massilon is, but don't u have Amish around where you live? Is that Ames County?


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

I'm in Stark County. A majority of the Amish population is West and South of us in Wayne and Holmes Counties. Most of them would probably be located within an hour round trip of my place.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

My wife and I lived in Fredericksburg,OH, Wayne Co. and I Inspected hives in Holmes County one Summer back in 1985. Fond memories.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

It's still an absolutely beautiful area, and populated with some of the best people around.


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## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

Just checked ML website. Frame prices still the same as I paid at Thanksgiving.


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## KevinR (Apr 30, 2010)

Looks like the wedge tops might have changed prices... the gt/gb appear to be the same that I paid this year... Checked new catalog and website... in 100 frame lots..


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## My-smokepole (Apr 14, 2008)

I have a phone number and a. Address if you want it. He is out of Ashland. Email me if you want it.. Veithattoast.net
David


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## bevy's honeybees (Apr 21, 2011)

Mike Gillmore said:


> I need to buy more frames, guess I waited too long. On average, what percentage have the unassembled frames increased?


I ordered a 100 case of medium wedge frames online yesterday because I also saw that price went up from $85 online to $90 in catalogue. The tool box I ordered is also $4 higher in the new catalogue. Good excuse to buy it right away and not wait. I see today it is still old prices if you can do it today.


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## SWM (Nov 17, 2009)

Almost all beekeeping suppliers raise prices after the first of the year. It's often X% across the board with some exceptions. I've found it a good practice to stock up in the fall for what will be needed in the spring.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

If you order enough woodware to make a surface freight pallet and pick it up at your local freight terminal, Westernbee.com is awful competitive. Their cheapest grade is budget and the boxes are all usable and 97% plus percent of the frames are.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Check out the rite cell foundation. Almost $30. more per case than I paid for it on thier Black Friday sale. Glad I got what I did, wish I had the $$ to buy 10 or 20 more cases.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Lauri,
U haven't figured out how to make your own yet?


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

sqkcrk said:


> Lauri,
> U haven't figured out how to make your own yet?


I was working on it at 3:00 this morning!  I think best when I am making sandwiches with my eyes closed. 

Can't quite get the 4.9 tho. 

I COULD just wait a few brood cycles and let them narrow it down themselves. Go figure.

I HAVE figured out how to stretch my foundation costs. Use one sheet for a frame and a half:




























Just lock it in with a piece of wood skewer 










First set of 500 half deeps all cut and remilled:










Left side cut and remilled end, right side factory end.










If prices keep going up I'll be making them like this, but with my own top bar.










Sorry about the size of the photos. I have yet to figure out how to reduce them.


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

Specialkayme said:


> Last two years they've jumped quite a bit. This past year not so much, from my records though.
> 
> 2012 - 100 Wedge Top Groove Bottom frames - $0.79 each
> 2013 - 100 Wedge Top Groove Bottom frames - $0.84 each
> ...


I have an invoice from them dated march of 2006. I bought 300 medium frames and paid $75.00. They were their budget frames which I do not think they have any longer.

With the New store in PA and the one they are opening in England I guess we should expect price increases to pay for them.


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## plcnut (Mar 8, 2013)

I just got a Mann Lake catalog in the mail today... It is the 2013 Summer Edition... The same one I already had. Maybe that means prices stay the same for me


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## Beestricken (May 16, 2013)

bevy's honeybees said:


> I ordered a 100 case of medium wedge frames online yesterday because I also saw that price went up from $85 online to $90 in catalogue. *The tool box I ordered is also $4 higher in the new catalogue. *Good excuse to buy it right away and not wait. I see today it is still old prices if you can do it today.


Which toolbox are you looking at? The one I was looking at went up $15. I noticed almost everything went up. Except for the uncapping punch, for some reason it went down $6.


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## homesteader824 (Jun 9, 2012)

You got their *2014* catalog? This morning I trudged through the snow, shivering in the near zero wind chill. I opened the mailbox with gloved hand, and was excited to see a catalog labeled "Mann Lake." Upon further inspection the cover proudly proclaims "free shipping" right above "July 2013." It is their "Summer Edition!" (their exclamation point by the way). Why would they send an outdated catalog? Maybe in June they'll send me their "Winter Edition!"


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## westernbeekeeper (May 2, 2012)

homesteader824 said:


> You got their *2014* catalog?


Yep, says January 2014 on the front.


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## Beestricken (May 16, 2013)

yep,mine too, looks like this


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## homesteader824 (Jun 9, 2012)

westernbeekeeper said:


> Yep, says January 2014 on the front.


I wasn't doubting you, I was just wondering why they would send out an old catalog when they apparently have new ones printed. Brushy Mountain sent me a 2013 catalog about a month ago. Like the other poster asked, I wonder if I get 2013 prices if the 2014 are higher?


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## KevinR (Apr 30, 2010)

I'm sure they probably ran out... and wanted to get catalogs to people before the springtime rush... I got a 2014 catalog in the mail and one in my order of frames that I got last week.. LOL, I guess they wanted to make sure I got one..


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## westernbeekeeper (May 2, 2012)

homesteader824 said:


> I wasn't doubting you, I was just wondering why they would send out an old catalog when they apparently have new ones printed. Brushy Mountain sent me a 2013 catalog about a month ago. Like the other poster asked, I wonder if I get 2013 prices if the 2014 are higher?


I'm not sure why they are sending out old ones. I would try to order from the catalog, and ask for the 2013 prices since that's what they gave you.


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## buzzzz (Mar 7, 2013)

Beeline is a Amish company in Michigan that has good prices on wooden wear .I have been getting stuff off of them for the past 3 years and I am very happy with their stuff. I haul Amish for a living.


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## jrhoto (Mar 2, 2009)

Do we really compare prices or do we just assume that bigger is always cheaper or better?


www.poorvalleybeefarm.com


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## bbrowncods (Oct 10, 2012)

I use all Beeline, but I hear that their prices and shipping charges are going up as well.


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## Riskybizz (Mar 12, 2010)

and this totally off-topic post wasn't deleted why? I vote for a two month suspension based on the rhetoric.


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## JellyB (Jan 6, 2014)

I go to Wooster/ Fredericksburg often. What county or township road is this Amish person located on? Are they Swartzentruber or High Order Amish?


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## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

A few days ago someone posted in this thread using My user name. I wanted to make it clear to everyone who read the post that I did not write it, or post it. Nor do I condone the material in the post. 
I left my PC, On and on this page sitting on the pickle barrel in our store, and went to help an elderly customer who had driven his truck off the parking lot into the soft grass and was stuck. 
Since I was all bundled up an had the tractor out I continued to plow the drive, lot and access roads to the pastures. spending several hours out of the store. During that time someone posted the objectionable post. I take responsibility, as it was my lack of diligence in leaving my PC on with this page viewed. Rest assured it will not happen again, and if we ever acquire proof positive of the identity of the perpetrator they will be banned from all of our facilities. 

I apologize if my lack of care in ensuring the safety of bee source members who this may have offended

Tenbears


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## plcnut (Mar 8, 2013)

Tenbears,
I, for one, appreciate your response.
Regards, Jason


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## westernbeekeeper (May 2, 2012)

Tenbears,
I never did see it before it was deleted (nor after!), but do rest assured that we appreciate your clearing. Thanks!

Ben


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## My-smokepole (Apr 14, 2008)

They are out of Ashland I don't know witch order they are, in fact didn't realize that their was different orders. Or what ever they call it. I know that their is a couple of different ones that come.but this is the one that I have been doing business with. 
Coblentz Bees Supply
1119 Township 1193
Ashland‎ OHIO‎ 44605
United States


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

My-smokepole said:


> They are out of Ashland I don't know *witch order* they are, in fact didn't realize that their was different orders. Or what ever they call it. I know that their is a couple of different ones that come.but this is the one that I have been doing business with.
> Coblentz Bees Supply
> 1119 Township 1193
> Ashland‎ OHIO‎ 44605
> United States





witch order? Looks like tenbears hacker is now in your neighborhood. That or this a really bad play on words be it inadvertent or not? Off Topic! 

FYI Ben... the deleted post was a statement of displeasure with Amish People in general. It sounded like someone who had been burned by some and was not very happy with the whole group as a result. I'm sure you could relate! Sadly...


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## westernbeekeeper (May 2, 2012)

Oh...gotcha. Yes, I understand to a degree.


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## westernbeekeeper (May 2, 2012)

Honey-4-All said:


> witch order? Looks like tenbears hacker is now in your neighborhood.


:lpf:


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## Tom Brueggen (Aug 10, 2011)

westernbeekeeper said:


> Got ML's great new 2014 catalog today. Very nicely laid out, and they have added quite a few great new products. BUT: unassembled frames are through the roof! Can hardly justify buying them anymore. As well as other woodenware - lots of high prices. Ah well, I'll still go to them in a pinch. But I can make my own great boxes for $7, frames for $0.62 each, bottom boards for $4, as well as others.
> But still...
> Go Mann Lake! as always.


I build my own boxes for even less! I buy rough cut pine at a local mill for $.60/BF and plain it down myself, saving $1/BF over Lowes cost. A 10 frame deep only takes 4.85 BF of lumber, so that comes out to about $2.90 in materials! If I bought the lumber at Lowes it would be $7.76/deep. Granted I have time involved, but if I set up my wood shop properly, I can run through all the cuts for a set of 10 boxes pretty quick! I hate painting, but I buy the $5 "oops" paint at Lowes. The colors add some life to the apiary over standard white. 

I've considered building my own frames, but fear the intricate cuts would be a time killer. Do you have a rapid method to build them? I know materials would be cheap enough, but can't wrap my head around how to do it fast without something like a laser cutter. I actually thought about carving a 2x10 with all the notches and dog ears needed to make a deep frame side bar, and then using a bandsaw to cut out all the thin pieces. I think it will work, I just never have put on paper to see, or actually tried doing it. Still I order the 100 pks of pre-cut frames from Mann Lake and find that to be the best price/time for me. Once my kids get a little older, say 2-3 years old, I'll have them do it, ha! 

I did notice prices had jumped on a lot of other stuff, but hadn't looked at the frames that closely. Shame prices have to go up, but we all know, the dollar is worth less, and from what I've seen, the demand for beekeeping equipment is steadily growing as more and more hobbyists get into it. Mann Lake is in a great position in that market. Much like Walmart dominating residential retail, they've just made the right moves at the right time. Can't hate 'em for. I'm rather impressed really! Wish I had their insight! 

I haven't really shopped anywhere else for about 2 years now, as early on I found that Mann Lake always had the best price, and free shipping. Maybe it's time to start looking around again and see what's out there. Happy hunting to all!


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Tom Brueggen said:


> I've considered building my own frames, but fear the intricate cuts would be a time killer.


Maybe consider making just the top & bottom bars and buying the side bars?


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## Tom Brueggen (Aug 10, 2011)

snl said:


> Maybe consider making just the top & bottom bars and buying the side bars?


Ha, who's going to sell just side bars! That's not meant to synical, I just don't think I've ever seen a retailer break out the frames to that level. That would be like buying a new car without the wheels! Certainly a practical enough option if you can find the resource. Haha, I told my wife I'd pay her retail cost if she'd build the frames for me, but she's too busy with her fish tanks to ever want to help


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Tom Brueggen said:


> Ha, who's going to sell just side bars!


I don't mean to burst your bubble.........I get them from Mann Lake.......... you gotta call them. I'm guessing there is a minimum order amount...


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Also Kelley shows end bars as a catalog item:
http://www.kelleybees.com/Shop/39/Hives-Components/Frame-Hive-Repair/4314/End-Bars


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## Tom Brueggen (Aug 10, 2011)

Works for me. It makes sense that they would sell them separate if you ask, but I suppose they just don't advertise it as it's not as common. 

bubble_is_busted.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Tom Brueggen said:


> bubble_is_busted.


That's Ok............... now go buy that new car without the wheels! :no:


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## westernbeekeeper (May 2, 2012)

Tom Brueggen said:


> I build my own boxes for even less! I buy rough cut pine at a local mill for $.60/BF and plain it down myself, saving $1/BF over Lowes cost. A 10 frame deep only takes 4.85 BF of lumber, so that comes out to about $2.90 in materials! If I bought the lumber at Lowes it would be $7.76/deep. Granted I have time involved, but if I set up my wood shop properly, I can run through all the cuts for a set of 10 boxes pretty quick! I hate painting, but I buy the $5 "oops" paint at Lowes. The colors add some life to the apiary over standard white.
> 
> I've considered building my own frames, but fear the intricate cuts would be a time killer. Do you have a rapid method to build them? I know materials would be cheap enough, but can't wrap my head around how to do it fast without something like a laser cutter. I actually thought about carving a 2x10 with all the notches and dog ears needed to make a deep frame side bar, and then using a bandsaw to cut out all the thin pieces. I think it will work, I just never have put on paper to see, or actually tried doing it. Still I order the 100 pks of pre-cut frames from Mann Lake and find that to be the best price/time for me. Once my kids get a little older, say 2-3 years old, I'll have them do it, ha!


Yeah...I wish I could get deals like that on lumber, but I haven't found a mill around here. Maybe I'll start a thread about that. I do make my own frames for $0.40 each, and have quite perfected the process. I get mistints for $3 a gallon at Sherwin Williams. 



snl said:


> Maybe consider making just the top & bottom bars and buying the side bars?


Funny...I'd rather make the side bars, and buy the top and bottom bars! The side bars are very simple, but there is a little more router work on those top bars.



Tom Brueggen said:


> Ha, who's going to sell just side bars! That's not meant to synical, I just don't think I've ever seen a retailer break out the frames to that level. That would be like buying a new car without the wheels! Certainly a practical enough option if you can find the resource. Haha, I told my wife I'd pay her retail cost if she'd build the frames for me, but she's too busy with her fish tanks to ever want to help





snl said:


> I don't mean to burst your bubble.........I get them from Mann Lake.......... you gotta call them. I'm guessing there is a minimum order amount...


Yes...Mann Lake will sell you individual frame parts...you just have to call and get a quote. When I wanted 2500 top bars, they gave me an estimate at $0.26 apiece, if I'm remembering correctly. That was a couple months ago.


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