# Florida dept AG apiary inspection



## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

Florida dept of apiary inspection had the reputation of setting the stanard of quality years back. Now almost all inspectors have little or no beekeeping experience. I dont know of any that have ever had more than a handful of hives for a few years other than a few oldtimers still there. My inspector while a really nice person and doing the best she can has never had and doesnt have bees. The problem seems to be low pay and inability to attract knowledgable beeks. They seem to think that going thru a short bee school and being certified master beekeeper is good enough. I had to correct one inspector a couple years back that took off the top box and sat it down in 6" tall grass. I explained that you could kill or loose a queen. Later the head guy called and thanked me for helping them! REALLY? I have heard numerous stories from other beeks. Last week I had a yard of over 100 hives quaranteened for american foyl brood just as i was preparing to head north. (Would be expensive to head back in 30 days with a semi). After looking at the hive i determined rather easily it was not AFB. I remained under quarantine for a week until lab results came back. It was NOT AFB. Any experienced beek woykd gave known. My inspector did the best she could with her lumited experience. I was a slight case of a virus with just a few cells and great looking brood pattern. This kind of thing can cost a beek thousands of $$ in lost pollination and lost contracts and honey production. Let alone returning to pick up a few hives. We pay for inspection fees and moving permits...it all gets into your pocket after awhile. A beek who dont control and burn AFB is out of business. After talking to several commercial beeks we have decided to seek to end the inspection program in FL. It would be much better to have a few KNOWLEDGABLE BEEKS to have in time when needed. But to waste taxpayer and beeks dollars on unqualified personnel is nuts. We will in the near future begin a petition to end this program as all Ive talked to are very disatisified. Any ideas and input are welcome. Rick Sutton


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

so what will you do for states that require an inspection permit to enter the state?


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Nothing. Enter the state. There are only 2 states that I know that check at the border. The rest that I have seen is just a paperwork drill. I had an inspector quarantine a yard of mine in NYS for AFB last fall. Now granted it did have similarities to AFB, but it wasn't, it was EFB. He actually did 2 inspections and swore up and down if was AFB. Luckily I was not trying to move my bees at that time.


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## Robbin (May 26, 2013)

It's sad to here it's coming to this. Everyone in our club looks forward to the expert advise that comes from our inspector with 30 years as a commerical beek under his belt.


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## tommyt (Aug 7, 2010)

I fully understand a mistake like this could cost $$ 
However you asked for thoughts.
To me anyone can err even a pro,
I just don't believe ALL these beeks!! ( I was told 27 States visit/ winter in Florida ) 
will self monitor,
Kill or cure their bees before entering or exiting Florida?
IMO,There is Always ONE ?

You've had 2 errors in how many years in the Fl. System??
One being corrected immediately and you taught him a lesson
(Then thanked by his boss)

The second took a week, too be turned around.

I do see your frustration on the most recent, but wanting too abolish the 
Entire program. I feel it's a bit much. 
I think the inspector is a nice person,I also "see/feel" there is 
a few that just have it out for her,not just with bees but personality.
That helps nothing to the inspector position.

I am in no way saying you, these are people I've had contact with.


JMHO


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## smoore (Feb 1, 2012)

suttonbeeman said:


> no beekeeping experience. ... They seem to think that going thru a short bee school and being certified master beekeeper is good enough.


Being a certified master beekeeper in Florida means you must have had bees for 3 years, I wouldn't call that a short school.
http://http://entnemdept.ufl.edu/honeybee/extension/master_beekeeper.shtml#Master



suttonbeeman said:


> After talking to several commercial beeks we have decided to seek to end the inspection program in FL. It would be much better to have a few KNOWLEDGABLE BEEKS to have in time when needed. But to waste taxpayer and beeks dollars on unqualified personnel is nuts. We will in the near future begin a petition to end this program as all Ive talked to are very disatisified. Any ideas and input are welcome. Rick Sutton


As a hobbyist and not a full time commercial beekeeper this is a bad idea. You may feel the inspectors are beneath your level but the vast majority of beekeepers in the state are hobbyists with little or no knowledge and they are well above them. The hobbyists are the people that are a danger to your hives since they cant recognize AFB at all. Without the inspectors those people will have infected hives and that will spread to destroy your business. They will be out of a few hundred dollars, you will be out of a livelihood.

I am not dissatisfied with the inspectors in North Florida. The several apiary inspectors in Florida I have had extended contact with; Jeff Pippin, Rob Horsburgh, Gary Van Cleef (who regularly visits these forums), Mark ***** and Stephen Cutts are all knowledgeable. From the lectures they have given at Bee College and our local club I know several of them at least have their own bees. Cutts is a 4th or 5th generation beekeeper and has stories about beekeeping at 4-5 years old, thats not not experience. 

Rather than trying to destroy a valuable program that protects you from the incompetence of others maybe you should contact your inspectors supervisor about their lack of knowledge, or look to make changes to the program for operations over a certain size. You should also be aware that if Florida stops inspecting your bees the other states wont let you enter them with your bees.


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## gone2seed (Sep 18, 2011)

Our inspector is experienced and a pleasure to work with.Don't expect much support for your petition.


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## ga.beeman (Mar 29, 2009)

Maybe their should be a reimbursement to the beekeeper when the state quarantines your hives for lost income, transportant cost etc when found not to be AFB. I really don't know why we have these inspections in any state because all states have the same disease and pests


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## Robbin (May 26, 2013)

While I'm not dissatisfied with my inspector. I want to know how someone with no experience can become an inspector? I can assure you a "Master beekeeper" cert doesn't mean much. I worked for Oracle corp and I can't tell you how many times I went in to fix databases and on the wall behind the admin was his "Master Cert". Classes are no substitute for experience.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

suttonbeeman said:


> Last week I had a yard of over 100 hives quaranteened for american foyl brood just as i was preparing to head north. Rick Sutton


Rick, once the "AFB" was detected, did the Inspector inspect all of the rest of the colonies in that yard? That's what would have happened in NY. At least that's the way it used to be.

I never understood the need to quarantine the whole yd when one suspect case was found. 

Did you have the option of burning the hive that the supposed AFB was found in?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Robbin said:


> While I'm not dissatisfied with my inspector. I want to know how someone with no experience can become an inspector?


It's not like their are experienced and knowledgeable people beating down doors to fill the positions. 

Seems to me like FL should pair experienced and knowledgeable Inspectors w/ Novice Inspectors.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

smoore said:


> The hobbyists are the people that are a danger to your hives since they cant recognize AFB at all. Without the inspectors those people will have infected hives and that will spread to destroy your business. They will be out of a few hundred dollars, you will be out of a livelihood.


You over estimate the virulence and efficacy of AFB and its impact on a commercial operation.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

gone2seed said:


> Our inspector is experienced and a pleasure to work with.Don't expect much support for your petition.


maybe all the beeks that are happy with their inspectors, should start writing letters in support of those inspectors to their legislators and the head of the bee inspection agency.
may help the good ones to keep their job, allows the less experienced to be addressed, and keeps the system working.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

sqkcrk said:


> You over estimate the virulence and efficacy of AFB and its impact on a commercial operation.


I disagree, certainly the outbreak of AFB in the last century, absent antibiotics, nearly wiped out beekeeping in the US and hives were much less numerous then. In the early part of this century word was as 1000 hives in NY were burned during the 2001 AFB outbreak. Studies on AFB spores showed not much other than fire destroys the spores and they remain viable for decades. That's virulence with a a capital V. In Chemung County alone there were over 100 hives I am aware of with AFB and the bee club was burned out of existence during the 2001 outbreak. if you read the New Zealand Study they added one extracted infected super to one hive in a yard of I think 40 hives and within 20 days all hives in the yard were infected. I'm confident the concept commercial operations don't show infection has more to do with what used to be the continuous use of TM and today the use of Tylan. Remove the efficacy of the medications, which will eventually happen, and then ask what happens.

I've been an outspoken oponent of inspections for years due to the process of having either inexperienced beekeepers or my competition inspecting my hives. Peter Borst certainly made me a believer in the fact it is a good idea to have inspections by qualified inspectors.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I know my experience is anecdotal, but I have never used TM or Tylosin to address AFB. I have had cases of active and visually detectable AFB, which I burned. It didn't spread like wild fire.

In my 20 years of doing Apiary Inspection in NY I have seen plenty of cases of AFB w/in an apiary, not effecting the other hives in the yard. One case in point was a yard of 40 or so hives w/ 3 hives w/ active state AFB and scale showing too. The beekeeper knew of them but had not gotten time to deal w/ them yet. Once I found them the quarantine kept them from dealing w/ them until Lab Verification came back. That was more than a month. But they couldn't move anything out of that apiary because of the quarantine, further exposing the rest of the colonies to potential infection.

If AFB is so contagious, wouldn't the intelligent thing to have done would have been to allow the beekeeper to go ahead and burn the infected hives? Or to move the rest of the hives to a vacant apiary?

I don't know to what degree Sutton looks at each and every frame in each and every brood chamber when his hives are in FL, but I end up looking at almost all of mine and many of them more than once during my spring in SC.

The solution is education. Education and experience. I don't know any Apiary Inspectors in FL, but, I would not want the me that came out of two years of school w/ a Degree in Commercial Beekeeping inspecting bee hives alone, w/out experienced education. I was shown my first case of AFB by the beekeeper after I had inspected one of his apiaries, the first week of work. Training, experience, and supervision are key.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Joel said:


> I'm confident the concept commercial operations don't show infection has more to do with what used to be the continuous use of TM and today the use of Tylan. Remove the efficacy of the medications, which will eventually happen, and then ask what happens.
> 
> I've been an outspoken oponent of inspections for years due to the process of having either inexperienced beekeepers or my competition inspecting my hives. Peter Borst certainly made me a believer in the fact it is a good idea to have inspections by qualified inspectors.


My thoughts exactly Joel. 

In 2011? a Florida beekeeper sent 1000 nucleus colonies to New England. Many broke down with AFB and EFB. They came with a Florida inspection certificate. 

Trouble is, the producer uses Tylan to control the disease. He told me he doesn't use Tylan but I know he does. I saw his inspection report. AFB severely resistant to TM. So he sends the nucs to beekeepers who have never heard of Tylan, and what do you think happened? No Duh!

And when 7000 Florida colonies land in Maine for blueberry pollination…all inspected on the same day, well…

That's what we call a "Lunch Counter Inspection".


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## tommyt (Aug 7, 2010)

Michael Palmer 
Without having to use names of apiary can you tell me where in the state of Fl. He is from
North, north east 
East 
South south east 
West south west 
Panhandle 

And all,the rest


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## jbeshearse (Oct 7, 2009)

Michael Palmer said:


> And when 7000 Florida colonies land in Maine for blueberry pollination…all inspected on the same day, well…
> 
> That's what we call a "Lunch Counter Inspection".


 The inspectors do not inspect all colonies in large operations. I once asked how they managed that with so few inspectors. They are required to inspect 10% of colonies in operations with more than 100 hives. 10 or less they inspect them all and I don't remember what the other numbers are. And they only inspect once a year. if those nucs were made after the inspection or before the inspection it is unlikely than any were inspected. The problem is that in Florida the number of beekeepers has about quadrupled and inspection services are having a hard time keeping up. 

A better solution may be to have the more experienced inspectors that just inspect the commercial/sideliner outfits and the less experienced the hobbyist (which make up the majority of registered beekeepers but require more time on a per apiary basis. 

You know you get what you pay for most of the time. Bee registration in Florida is $100.00 per year for 500 or more hives. For hobbyist with less than 10 it is $10.00. With that type of budget the fees are unlikely to even cover the cost of fuel to get to all the hobbyist. I imagine the fees will go up if we are to expect a more thorough and comprehensive inspections from experienced inspectors.

In all I have found the inspectors to be very knowledgeable, helpful and an invaluable resource to small keepers. Large commercial bee outfits are no different than any other commercial activity. None want more government involvement in their operations. And while most will do what is right, there are always those that don't. Industry as a whole has no credibility when it comes to self-policing. We will have intrusions by government, we just need to do all we can to see that it is fair and beneficial to all.

I am sure Americasbeekeeper can correct any inaccuracies in the above, but will likly choose to stay off this thread.


Johnnie


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## sjvbee (Dec 27, 2006)

I'm on my 4th in 4 years. Far as I know they are still inspecting in other area's of FL. Liked them all. Most were hobby beekeepers before inspecting. Do I need them no. They are a time and cash drain. Takes about three days of inspecting to check bees that we have worked with in the last 2 weeks. Every new person I have is taught how to look AFB and if found dealt with in the fire pit. Having them inspect once a year does nothing in providing a service to the commercial beekeeper. Every beekeeper should always be on the look out for AFB. Now the bee-informed people do provide valuable information to me that I can use. Bottom line there is no value to me to have apiary inspections. The only thing I really need them for is ant inspections. Even this doesn't assure ant free loads.


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## Bee-52 (Mar 18, 2014)

Here is a question I have. My assumption is that all inspectors sooner or later have to deal with a hive infected with AFB. Now, what do they do with all their equipment after that happens? Do they burn their bee suits, hive tools and gloves along with the infected hive since AFB is so infectious? Judging by the state of my inspectors bee suit I would doubt it. It looked like it's been used for years. I don't think they irradiate it either. If I'm not mistaken the only lab to set up for that is at UF. If that's the case now we have a person who effectively spreads AFB bacteria though all the hives he/she inspects.

As far as how infectious it is, I've been taught that AFB can be found in just about every hive. However when the colony becomes weak and can not effectively suppress it then the bacteria multiplies reaching epidemic levels.


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## gone2seed (Sep 18, 2011)

Bee-52 said:


> Now, what do they do with all their equipment after that happens? Do they burn their bee suits, hive tools and gloves along with the infected hive since AFB is so infectious?
> .


Our inspectors always use our own equipment for that very reason.The exception is the beesuit.
Since the suit doesn't come into contact with the colony it's not a problem.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

"I know my experience is anecdotal, but I have never used TM or Tylosin to address AFB."

I would value your experienced higher than just anecdotal - you have a pretty in depth training and experience.

So you are saying you have never used TM or Tylosin as a preventative treatment or that you have never treated an active case?

We know that AFB transmission is primarily through infected combs or infected honey. A hive which is still active and defending the entrance would be less likely spread disease through an apiary absent robbing, especially if the apiary had received prophylactic treatments with antibiotics. That scenario changes once that hive dies and the hive is robbed by other hives. I don't argue the point that today with preventative treatments AFB is not a threat to a commercial apiary with a responsible beekeeper who knows AFB at the one or two cell level because like you, all of us old timers have learned to scan every comb on every inspection and know to look for that lone unhatched cell or perforated or dark cappings and we scratch until we are sure one way or another. I think any responsible commericial beek would burn an AFB hive in a NY Minute but that is because we know it is virulent and highly contagious. I'm not an inspector with 20 years experience but during the 2001 outbreak I was in an untreated apiary with almost 100 hives in all states of improper care. That infection spread through that apiary and then our county like a firestorm. I went through that outfit and there were less than a handful not infected. I also saw as you indicated, a yard with a couple of infected hives and others than never got the disease. Until Sulpha drugs in the 1970's, TM in the 80's and Tylan now, AFB did spread like wildfire. If as you indicate you have never used any preventative medication, had active cases and not gotten other infected hives that may speak to your ability having been an inspector to identify it before it gets to a point of spreading. That is not my experiance. There is also a new breed of commercial beekeeper since the word is out on how rich we are all getting. Beekeepers with zero or maybe a year of experience buying a couple hundred hives to send to Almonds. Never saw an AFB cell, smelled the foul odor, no preventative treatments. 

The outbreak in the last century spread nationwide at a time when moving bees was very local and apiaries were much more isolated. The 2001 outbreak came at the same time it was decided the standard treatment protocol for TM was actually giving the disease a sub lethal dose actually decreasing the effectiveness of preventative treatment and causing more virulence in the disease organism.

I do agree training is the major issue. Inspectors attending a master beekeeper program are not being trained to be inspectors, they are learning to be good hobby beekeepers and that's a good thing. Maybe some qualified inspectors could put together and market a program to states. There is no experience to spending time afield with an experienced, qualified inspector like Mark, like Peter. A well trained inspector can walk into a yard and find the foulbrood hive in 3 notes.

I hope Peter Borst chimes in - like to hear his perspective.


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## peterloringborst (Jan 19, 2010)

Bee-52 said:


> As far as how infectious it is, I've been taught that AFB can be found in just about every hive.


Taught, by whom? Even if it is in every hive, not every hive has AFB so the mere presence of spores will not cause a hive to become sick, any more than the mere presence of someone in your house with TB will cause you or anyone else to become sick. 

There is a specific way in which colonies get AFB. The most common route is through robbing a sick hive, which brings millions or billions of spores into the robbing colony. This overwhelms their ability to control the infection. The only sure way to prevent AFB from robbing is by giving antibiotics as a preventive. If you have bees in an area with a lot of AFB, this is the only thing that will work, and I recommend it.

Another way it is spread is by making splits with diseased combs. This is typically caused by either inexperienced help, or being in too much of a rush to thoroughly inspect the frames. I always recommend thoroughly inspecting in spring and fall. The disease inspection should not be combined with other activity since that creates a distraction. Bee inspectors are only looking for disease, they are very focused. Once the hives have a clean bill of health, then you can divide them, super them, sell them. But not before.

The ten percent inspection is based on two things: one, there isn't enough time and money to inspect every single hive. If you inspect 10 percent you may miss a couple of hives, but you won't miss a serious problem. I select the weakest first (they may be sick already) and then look at the strongest (could have bee robbing the weak ones). In NYS if we found a single case among the 10% then we looked at all the rest (100%).

As far as AFB on your clothes, as long as you don't roll in it, that is not a very likely route of transmission. In NYS we always wore clean ordinary clothes, not some nasty bee suit. And always worked bare handed. If you use an ordinary hand sanitizer between hives, the chance of transmission is almost zero. If a sick one is found, the operator needs to sanitize the equipment with a good disinfectant, and sanitize their hands thoroughly.

AFB is bacteria, not a virus, so on surfaces it can be killed with alcohol, chlorine or lysol type disinfectants. You don't need to burn your smoker, your shoes, your lunchbox. The main problem with AFB is that it gets out of control before the beekeeper notices it and they spread it everywhere. Then you have a real problem. Throwing tylosin at it merely controls the symptoms and when the drugs stop, AFB comes back.

There are ways to cure apiaries of foul brood, but in most cases, the average person doesn't have the knowledge, persistence, skill, or resources to do it properly. Hence, most states require the destruction of hives with foul brood. The only reasonable exemption from this would be a very early case where only a few cells are apparent; some states allow treatment at this stage. But again, the average beekeeper would be better off to get rid of the stuff ASAP. 

About trying to save the bees, remember, the hive with AFB has bees which didn't successfully control it early on, so _these are not the bees you are looking for_ (get rid of them).


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## sharpdog (Jun 6, 2012)

sjvbee said:


> I'm on my 4th in 4 years. Far as I know they are still inspecting in other area's of FL. Liked them all. Most were hobby beekeepers before inspecting. Do I need them no. They are a time and cash drain. Takes about three days of inspecting to check bees that we have worked with in the last 2 weeks. Every new person I have is taught how to look AFB and if found dealt with in the fire pit. Having them inspect once a year does nothing in providing a service to the commercial beekeeper. Every beekeeper should always be on the look out for AFB. Now the bee-informed people do provide valuable information to me that I can use. Bottom line there is no value to me to have apiary inspections. The only thing I really need them for is ant inspections. Even this doesn't assure ant free loads.


The value to you, may be in the inspection of the beekeeper who isn't as vigilant. You may not need inspections, but some definitely do.
Luke


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Bee-52 said:


> Here is a question I have. My assumption is that all inspectors sooner or later have to deal with a hive infected with AFB. Now, what do they do with all their equipment after that happens? Do they burn their bee suits, hive tools and gloves along with the infected hive since AFB is so infectious? Judging by the state of my inspectors bee suit I would doubt it. It looked like it's been used for years. I don't think they irradiate it either. If I'm not mistaken the only lab to set up for that is at UF. If that's the case now we have a person who effectively spreads AFB bacteria though all the hives he/she inspects.
> 
> As far as how infectious it is, I've been taught that AFB can be found in just about every hive. However when the colony becomes weak and can not effectively suppress it then the bacteria multiplies reaching epidemic levels.


No, no Inspector burns gloves, suits, and hive tools and smokers or the clothes they wear such as boots. NY Inspectors don't wear gloves. Washing of hands, hive tool and smoker after inspecting each yard regardless and after each case of AFB is/was normal procedure.

Now a days, no longer being an Apiary Inspector I never wash my hands, hive tool, or smoker between yards or even after finding a case of AFB in my own outfit. None of the beekeepers I work ever has from what I have seen. I wonder why my outfit and others aren't rampant w/ AFB?

As far as being present in about every hive, rhinovirus is present almost everywhere yet the common cold is not epidemic.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Joel said:


> "I know my experience is anecdotal, but I have never used TM or Tylosin to address AFB."
> 
> I would value your experienced higher than just anecdotal - you have a pretty in depth training and experience.
> 
> So you are saying you have never used TM or Tylosin as a preventative treatment or that you have never treated an active case?


I do not and never have used TM or Tylosin as a preventative treatment or to treat an active case. I know too many beekeepers who use TM or Tylosin profolactically and still have AFB now and then. So what's the point? One less thing to have to buy, remember to carry along, and apply at the proper time or not apply at the right time. 

I figure if I have one or two active cases a year out of 500 hives, big deal. Fifty would be a big deal. Never seen that.

Tell me, what should be done w/ a strong colony w/ one cell of AFB in an otherwise healthy patch of capped brood. No oily look to brood cappings. No sunken caps. Just one perferated cap that when opened turned out to be classic ropy AFB. What should be done w/ a hive like that?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Joel said:


> The 2001 outbreak came at the same time it was decided the standard treatment protocol for TM was actually giving the disease a sub lethal dose actually decreasing the effectiveness of preventative treatment and causing more virulence in the disease organism.



I am not familiar w/ this 2001 outbreak you mention. This is where intra-agency communication could have been better and beneficial. Whose outfit was that? PM me if you don't want it public knowledge.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

sqkcrk said:


> Tell me, what should be done w/ a strong colony w/ one cell of AFB in an otherwise healthy patch of capped brood. No oily look to brood cappings. No sunken caps. Just one perforated cap that when opened turned out to be classic ropy AFB. What should be done w/ a hive like that?


As you well know and as Peter stated there are methods for control but as you also know, NYS requires any hive tested positive for AFB should be burned - there is no one cell threshold. I would burn it and so should you!


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

The case I am talking about was in someone elses hive, not mine. I located the disease, sampled it for Lab Confirmation as usual, and wrote out the quarantine notice.

After the lab confirmation came back, the hive was reinspected and no AFB was found. Should that hive have been destroyed and burned? Those bees recovered on their own. It wasn't up to me to allow a varience on procedures. That was someone elses decision.


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## tommyt (Aug 7, 2010)

What is the subject of this Thread


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

sqkcrk said:


> Now a days, no longer being an Apiary Inspector I never wash my hands, hive tool, or smoker between yards...


Your steering wheel must be disgusting.


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

What is the quarantine procedure ? 
Can a commercial beekeeper give David Westervelt or even Tyson Emery a call and explain a pressing need? Will they try to craft a plan that serves both needs as well as possible?
Or 
Rules are rules .....We will let you know when we get to it?


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

Slow getting back but busy getting ready to head north. Tommy t.
Acutally 3 errors...but why should i pay someone to inspect my hives who has never had bees? Waste of my time and money and taxpayers $. One inspector does have personality issues along with limited experience. In one instant she handed a frame back to beek and after he looked at it she had missed AFB. He later burned the hive. My inspector is a good person just lacks experience. In 5 or 6 years will be good inspector
..has the right attitude and likes bees. Bottom line...cant get knowledgeable experienced inspectors with low pay. Any job that is worth doing is worth doing right.


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

Smoore
I didnt mean to imply to get rid of the who dept...just mantory inspections. Probably need 3 or 4 experienced beeks for teaching local clubs public relations and rifta. The inspectors you mentioned all all good knowledgable inspectors along with Ryan. Ive known the Cutts family since the mid 80's good beeks and good people. Unfortunately alot of us have inspectors with little knowledge and experience...evem thou one thinks she knows it all and has a attitude issue. I did call their supervisors all the way to tallahassee. Having some knowledgeable beeks for hobbist ect would be ok but i might as well throw my $$ in a wood stove ....i would at least get warm. As far as little support I contacted about 20 commercial beeks...all names easily recognized and with several thousand colonies. 100 percent support!


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

Sqkcrk
Inspected another 60(50%) and found nothing...if posative test...would have done 100 percent. Required to burn if AFB which i would do anyway. No option to burn it and move. One frame and just a few cells. I inspect frames before making splits and always look for it. Go thur frames 2 times a year inspecting plus during splitting ect or if i have a issue with one not looking right. Dont use antibotics ...only on hive next to the one i burn. Find about 1 a year or two per 500.


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

Joel...beeks with AFB hide it...take inspectors to healthy yards and treat before taking. Inspectors dont know whete all yards are or see them. My inspector commented....AFB is all around here. We all know who they are and i try to stay away and have abanded a couple of yards.


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

Mbeck
I called westervelt...never got a return call untul i called his boss Tyson. I did talk to Gary and he was very understanding but itcwas Davids call. Repy was rules are rules. Except for them...got a rifta inspection back 5 yeats ago....friday afternoon pn weekend. Never got out of truck never bated truck. Wrote out paperwork and said i can tell ypu cleaned them. Then wrote out inspection for load threedays later...never saw the load but i had rifta certificate. My question...you trusted me then to do the right thing...why not now?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Your rate seems similar to mine. Sounds like you were in a tough spot. I feel for ya. Especially having been on both sides of Inspector/Beekeeper situation. Though never has a case of AFB or suspected AFB kept me from being allowed to move. Hopefully the Inspector you had is learning and will be better in the future.

People in NY didn't like the fact that many Apiary Inspectors were also beekeepers. So a choice was presented to Apiary Inspectors in 2006. One could either stay an Inspector and sell his bees or stay a Beekeeper and give up the inspection job. A simple chouice for anyone w/ very many hives. To quote a former Apiary Inspector and Commercial Beekeeper, "A poor year keeping bees beats a good year Inspecting." 

There are a number of Commercial Beekeepers in NY who themselves were Apiary Inspectors and the two and a half Inspectors in NY who were formerly employed by NY State Commercial Beekeepers. Once they are no longer employed I hate to think of who will replace them. If the program isn't abandoned before then.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Dan, "rifta"? What's that? Something I am not familiar with.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

Sutton - I feel your pain and if you look back you'll see I (and others) went to task with NYS and although our inspectors are few and far between today they are qualifed and I no longer have my competition inspecting my hives thanks to a letter to the state ethics committee. When Borst was my inspector it was a good world. He was tough but very fair and and conscientious. I never felt I needed to be there when he inspected after his first visit, I was confident in what he found and he taught me a great deal. He really cared about "his" beekeepers being successful. I know one time he hived a swarm at one of my yards - what's that kind of inspector worth. I think I could call him today if I needed him and he'd be out the next day to have a look. He's done it for many others I am well aware. The goal should be good inspectors. Our SC guy is very dedicated and not just a paper pusher and has, by his definition, the attitude of an extension agent rather than the enforcer. I think he'll do us well. 
Good Luck with your fight, look for the legal violation (interstate commerce clause for example) issues rather than petitions as this is what will get the fastest action from state officials.


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## my2cents (Jul 9, 2015)

I can say I will not support the partition to remove the inspectors. My local Inspector, Ryan Willingham, is a commercial Beek, licensed honey bottling producer, worked for Dadant for years and has a reputation of being knowledgeable.
If you felt like your inspector was not qualified, you have the opportunity to call the head of the department and request another inspector, or even request he comes out.
Ryan told me he has to manage close to 500 bee keepers in his assigned area.
The female, I think she has moved on, worked for a commercial beek for several years and had been building to become a commercial beek. Last I heard she had about 100 hives herself.
We all make mistakes, I would have asked for another inspection by someone I felt was more qualified.
Ryan told me, the #1 thing they inspect for is AFB, and everything else is secondary.
My2Cents


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

What are you talking about?

Lucky for you, in FL. In NY you can own bees and be a beekeeper or you can be an Apiary Inspector. Not both. Kind of a shame.


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

my2cents said:


> I can say I will not support the partition to remove the inspectors. My local Inspector, Ryan Willingham, is a commercial Beek, licensed honey bottling producer, worked for Dadant for years and has a reputation of being knowledgeable.
> If you felt like your inspector was not qualified, you have the opportunity to call the head of the department and request another inspector, or even request he comes out.
> Ryan told me he has to manage close to 500 bee keepers in his assigned area.
> The female, I think she has moved on, worked for a commercial beek for several years and had been building to become a commercial beek. Last I heard she had about 100 hives herself.
> ...



Well youvare partly right. Ryan Willingham is one good beekeeper, inspector and all around good guy. Problem is he cant do it all and there are others who dont have a clue. I can say enough good things about Ryan. 
The girl you are referring to was Stephanie Tarwater who has kots of bee knowledge, a good inspector with years of experience. However she didnot play the political game and was fured. She happens to be a good friend of mine and was one of a very few people qualified and certified to do AHB ID. From what Im told they wanted her to do AHB id put not pay her more than bee inspector and sign off when someone else did it.
The girl I was referring to dont have a clue what she is doing, did not ever have bees and now may have a hive. You need years of experience to do a good job like Ryan. But Im betting he wont be there long. The other inspector is not much better in knowledge than the one who messed me up. If all inspectors were lije Ryan or the old guys we woukd have no problem. If you had to pay what we commercual berks pay for permits and had to put up with a inspector who never had bees you would change tour mind. I think its important to have a program for teaching at local bee clubs and helping new beeks as if they get AFB it could spread. However the above type activity can cost a commercial beekeeper a pollination contract and thousands in trucking bills. Unfortunately Ryan cannot do it all and there are thousands of hives in central Florida with no other competant ondpector to call.
I was not going to ask hobbist to sign the petition...as most dont really understand the issues we commercial guys face. I started with two hives and didnt at that time either. I stand by my origional article.


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

I forgot to mention I did ask for another inspector and David Westervelt said I had to wait for lab to do test. Both th he two inspectors have been baned by me from doing inspections so last Year Ryan did mine
But why dhould we pay for a insoection by someone who dont have a clue? The Florida apiary inspection is a mess,and when Cathy retires from the front office it will become a disaster. Cathy is great and runs the day to day office with beekeepers solving problems.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Good Apiary Inspectors have to be grown, unless they happen to be found. More rare than a four leafed clover. Good Apiary Inspectors have to be taught all sorts of things. Experience in Commercial Beekeeping is a good place to start, just so they have the experience handling the equipment and some idea what commercial beekeepers are all about. But they also need to have good communications skills, good interpersonal relations skills, a pleasant personality and attitude, and the ability to work with all sorts of people like beekeepers and State officials.

And then, when you find one, you've got to pay them well enough to keep them and keep them educated about the latest thing.

It isn't just a matter of finding and dealing with foulbrood anymore, if it ever was.


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

VERY WELL SAID. YOUR EXACTLY RIGHT!!


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Thank you.


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