# Building boxes



## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

Time for a new thread. Since its been raining here for 4 days, so I decided to build supers today. I have a fairly clugee jig for doing 3 at a time. Michael posted one awhile ago as well. I'm trying to improve on mine, so I want to see ideas and comments. I'll go first...

I finally discovered I can speed things up by clamping all the pieces together and applying the glue to all at once.
http://www.myoldtools.com/Bees/boxjig/glue1.jpg
http://www.myoldtools.com/Bees/boxjig/glue2.jpg

My jig is a 3 sided box. It has slots for rails to hold the sides in place, kind of like my frame jig. I don't use them much anymore. 
http://www.myoldtools.com/Bees/boxjig/jig3.jpg
http://www.myoldtools.com/Bees/boxjig/jig2.jpg

The fourth side is floating in the slots. This allows me to use clamps to draw all 3 together at once. The little feet keep it centered so I can nail all 4 sides while in the clamps. 
http://www.myoldtools.com/Bees/boxjig/jig1.jpg

It works ok, but faster is better when you have a bunch to build...
http://www.myoldtools.com/Bees/boxjig/supers.jpg


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## Curtis (Jun 25, 2005)

Ross, 
Some great ideas.
Thanks for sharing.
Curtis


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## berkshire bee (Jan 28, 2007)

Is it lots faster than doing one at a time and checking with a square? Might be once you get into the swing of things.


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## SL Tx (Sep 17, 2006)

*time saving gadgets*

my wife accuses me of spending hours building time saving gadgets....someone else fits the profile!


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

It is considerably faster than one at a time to me. They always come out square. I'm thinking of ditching the clamps in favor of Deco toggle clamps. If I do that I may go to a 4 box jig. Anything much bigger gets hard to handle when you flip it to nail the bottom sides.


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## snoopybee (Dec 21, 2005)

*jig*

Harry Vanderpool in Oregon had an interesting one a year or so ago. Think he does several hundred at a sitting. He was on the forum...you might search.

Think I would build his style if I ever did more than half dozen at a time.

Ray


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

The only thing I found of his is a single box jig.


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## Keith Benson (Feb 17, 2003)

Ross said:


> I'm trying to improve on mine, s


I am thinking of making one of these - have you made any of the improvements you were hoping for?

My luck I would copy v. 1.0 and you would come out with version 1.1 . . . 

Keith


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

I haven't really messed with it this year. Michael Bush had one better than mine.


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## Keith Benson (Feb 17, 2003)

Thanks for the update. Michael - got any pics of the contraption?

Keith


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## MapMan (May 24, 2007)

Ross said:


> I haven't really messed with it this year. Michael Bush had one better than mine.


I use a similar design to what MB uses, made it to fit two deeps or three mediums, and cut the height down a bit - no need to support the box that high. No clamps, I spread glue with a disposable foam brush, use a plastic mallet to seat the joint and shoot 1 3/4" narrow crown staples into the fingers.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesboxjig.htm


MM


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## Keith Benson (Feb 17, 2003)

Thanks for the link. No screws - just the staples? And that is holding up for years? It is not that I don't believe you, just making sure.

Keith


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

...i made one based on looking at michael's picture (on his website). mine does 2 deep boxes at a time.

even when applying the glue on more than one piece at a time, i find this the slow part of the process...i'd like to build a big, profiled brush that will do all the joints at once.

my jig is pretty tight, and i countersink each hole and use drywall screws to hold things together. this way, the screws act as the clamp, and they can be tightened in the field.

fwiw, i find the best way to design/build these things is to (using some cad program) draw the part first (based on your actually measuring the actual part), then draw the jig around the part.

i'll try to take/post pics of mine when i get the chance.

deknow


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

This is how I speed up gluing....
http://www.myoldtools.com/Bees/boxjig/glue1.jpg


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

yeah, i do that, but it still feels like a slow process.

i'm imagining a horizontal bar with "paintbrush fingers" to match the box joint. glue in a paint tray...one swipe, and all the joints are well glued. 

i won't bother until i have to build up another bunch of boxes....which may or may not happen soon.

deknow


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## Docking (Mar 13, 2008)

this might be a dumb question but... I have some 34 inch pine stock. it is only 6 inches wide. Can I join those boards and make deeps with those? or would the joint cause a problem with moisture?


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## mike haney (Feb 9, 2007)

*No screws - just the staples*

its the glue- the nails/staples are to hold shape till it dries. they are not strictly necessary. good luck,mike


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## randydrivesabus (Apr 27, 2006)

Docking said:


> this might be a dumb question but... I have some 34 inch pine stock. it is only 6 inches wide. Can I join those boards and make deeps with those? or would the joint cause a problem with moisture?


you should use waterproof glue like TB3.


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## MapMan (May 24, 2007)

Keith Benson said:


> Thanks for the link. No screws - just the staples? And that is holding up for years? It is not that I don't believe you, just making sure.
> 
> Keith


You should use outdoor rated PVA (Titebond III) glue. You have to really trust your glue, as that is what is really holding the boxes together. I use PVA III for many outdoor projects, and it holds up very well. Your box joints should also be prepared correctly - when dry-fit, there should be some resistance -- no sloppy fitting joints. 

I use the typical formula for the minimum size of the fastener (in this case staples) -- twice the width of the boards, plus .25", or 1 3/4". I shoot the staples into every finger of the box joints. Just takes me a few minutes to glue and shoot staples into each corner - no pre-drilling for nails or screws. Many folks use drywall srews which can fail, as they are very brittle, and not designed for fastening wood together! Of course, a good coat of primer and two finish coats of outdoor paint protects the joints from premature failure.

For more info on glue strength:

www.titebond.com/Download/pdf/HowStrongisYour*Glue*_FWW.pdf

MM


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## MapMan (May 24, 2007)

Docking said:


> this might be a dumb question but... I have some 34 inch pine stock. it is only 6 inches wide. Can I join those boards and make deeps with those? or would the joint cause a problem with moisture?


Not a dumb question. Make certain that your joint is clean and tight - use a jointer if you have one, or in a pinch, rip using a sharp blade on your table saw. When gluing, don't starve the joint by applying too much pressure. Many folks tighten the clamps so hard that most of the glue squeezes out, and the boards buckle. 

Only tighten the clamps hard enough in sequence so that the joint _just starts to ooze glue_. Using cauls (with a small piece of waxed paper between each caul and the glued boards), put a set of clamps at the ends of each board pressing down onto the glue joint. This will help to avoid buckling the joint. 

MM


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

Cauls can be made easier using 2" celophane packing tape. Just wrap the caul in tape and glue won't stick to it.


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## MapMan (May 24, 2007)

Ross said:


> Cauls can be made easier using 2" celophane packing tape. Just wrap the caul in tape and glue won't stick to it.


Excellent idea. But, where do you get cellophane tape - do they still use cellophane in tape manufacture?

MM


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## Trevor Mansell (Jan 16, 2005)




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## Keith Benson (Feb 17, 2003)

Trevor Mansell said:


>


That thing is snappy.
Keith


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## MapMan (May 24, 2007)

*Yep, glue holds boxes together*

If anyone really wants to know what holds the boxes together, ask LtlWilli...

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219617


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

Cellophane tape I refer to is any scotch type 2" packing tape. Probably plastic these days, but you get the picture. Kelly Mehler that wrote The Table Saw Book taught me that one.


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## Gene Weitzel (Dec 6, 2005)

I use a dadoed lock joint instead of the standard box joint on all my boxes. I have found it to be just about as durable and with careful construction of my dado sleds, I don't need a jig to keep it square during assembly. The joints fit tight and are glued with TB3 and stapled with crown staples. For gluing I just lay the parts for several boxes butted together on a table so that their grooves/glue surfaces are all lined up in one line, then I just run my bead of glue down the grooves on one side and up the grooves on the other side of the line. Takes about 20 seconds to apply the glue to 5 or 6 boxes at a time. Then I tap them all together on the table (its a pretty long table) and go up and down the line and staple. Occasionally a joint is slightly loose but all it takes is a second with the speed square during stapling to keep it square. If I have one of my sons following behind me with the stapler as I tap them together, we can really crank them out.


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## MapMan (May 24, 2007)

Gene Weitzel said:


> I use a dadoed lock joint


Do you mean a drawer lock joint, or a sliding dovetail or a _____? To be on the technical side, a dado is a groove (slot, trench, recess) down the center of a surface of wood (metal, plastic, etc). A rabbet (rebate) is a groove down the edge (or end) of the material.

MM


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## Gene Weitzel (Dec 6, 2005)

MapMan said:


> Do you mean a drawer lock joint, or a sliding dovetail or a _____? To be on the technical side, a dado is a groove (slot, trench, recess) down the center of a surface of wood (metal, plastic, etc). A rabbet (rebate) is a groove down the edge (or end) of the material.
> 
> MM


This joint has a 3/8"x3/8" dado that is 3/8" from the edge on the end pieces (16-1/4" side of the box). The joining piece has a 3/8"x3/8" rabbet on its edge which creates a tongue that goes into the dado on the ends. I think the technical term is a Lock-Rabbet joint or Simple Lock joint. Sometime ago I guess I created my own term for it and have gotten used to calling it a "dadoed lock joint" which does not exist in any text. Sorry for the confusion.


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## Temple (Jun 6, 2008)

*Box joints*

Beesource.com has plans for the "10-Frame Langstroth Beehive." Part of the instructions refer to the ". . .steps described on how to make a box joint from the PDF 'Box Joint files." But there is no such file that I could find. Can anyone either tell me where to find it (trying to contact Beesource is futile), or recommend a good source?

Many thanks!

Temple
Raleigh, NC


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## MapMan (May 24, 2007)

It's not linked to the list, but found it for you anyway:

www.beesource.com/plans/boxjoint/boxjoint.pdf 


MM





Temple said:


> Beesource.com has plans for the "10-Frame Langstroth Beehive." Part of the instructions refer to the ". . .steps described on how to make a box joint from the PDF 'Box Joint files." But there is no such file that I could find. Can anyone either tell me where to find it (trying to contact Beesource is futile), or recommend a good source?
> 
> Many thanks!
> 
> ...


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## Ted n Ms (Apr 25, 2008)

*box joint*

Temple i think this is it.http://www.beesource.com/plans/boxjoint/index1.htm


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## rmhcattle (Jun 2, 2008)

*ross has a good setup*

i have been to Ross getting bees and he does have a good setup. i have taken some of his ideas and put to use.


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