# 1:1 or 2:1 sugar:water syrup?



## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

1:1 is cheaper.... 2:1 is simple syrup and is the standard. It is the least amount of water that can desolve that much sugar and remain liquid. What it comes down to is the sucrose content. The more sucrose the more comb they can build. If you feed 1:1 you will have to feed twice as much to get the same amount of comb as on 2:1....This however; does not mean that they will drawl comb at max capacity.


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## Phil Minnesota (Mar 3, 2006)

Also,

A 1 to 1 mix is supposed to stimulate brood rearing also. They won't take the syrup if its too cold outside. Maybe steal a frame from the other hive?? With cold weather feed may not be taken.

Good luck, Phil


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## danameric (Mar 11, 2007)

Thanks for askin that! I was trying to figure it out too.


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

2:1 is used to build stores.
1:1 is used to activate brood rearing. 
You will want to use 2:1 until about 30 days before your honey flow begins, then switch to 1:1 to stimulate the queen to start laying.


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## MountainCamp (Apr 12, 2002)

2:1 syrup is generally feed in the fall and to build stores. It takes less evaporation to get the concentration completed for storage.

1:1 is feed to stimulate brood rearing, but will also be stored if feed in excess.

If you feed twice the amount of the 1:1, the cost difference would only be for the cost of the water as the total sugar / carbohydraye contain would be the same.

Bees do not consume honey or 2:1 syrup as is. It must be diluted for consumption.


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## Cyndi (Apr 26, 2005)

*Here is my recipe...I think I'm all screwed up now*

I think I must be brain dead when it comes to trying to figure this out. 

Someone please help me out here and tell me what this recipe is. But first, I always thought that 2:1 = 2 cups sugar to 1 cup water, is this right??

I thought I had a 2:1 recipe, which is 1 quart of water to 2 cups of sugar, or 2 quarts water to 4 cups sugar, or 4 quarts of water to 8 cups of sugar (I use this one for my 2 gallon size feeders). 

Measurement chart in case anyone needs it. 1 quart = 4 cups, 2 quarts = 8 cups, 4 quarts = 16 cups.

The more I study that recipe above....its looks more like a 1:2 recipe instead of a 2:1. Am I right?? 

So, I'm wondering if this recipe should of read like this..... 1 quart of water to 2 quarts sugar, 2 quarts water to 4 quarts of sugar, and then 4 quarts of water to 8 quarts of sugar. Is this really the 2:1 recipe?? Actually, I got this from a beekeeping club on an internet site, but I don't remember which one.

I wished I had paid more attention in my Fractions class now, LOL!!

Disclaimer::lease no one try to use this recipe as I think its totaly wrong.


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## Oldbee (Sep 25, 2006)

Why is this always SO!!!!! complicated????????


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## inga (Feb 21, 2007)

Cyndi said:


> I think I must be brain dead when it comes to trying to figure this out.
> 
> Someone please help me out here and tell me what this recipe is. But first, I always thought that 2:1 = 2 cups sugar to 1 cup water, is this right??


 Yes, that's what it usually means. (For example, see the Wikipedia entry http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Beekeeping/Recipes_for_the_Bees)



> I thought I had a 2:1 recipe, which is 1 quart of water to 2 cups of sugar, or 2 quarts water to 4 cups sugar, or 4 quarts of water to 8 cups of sugar (I use this one for my 2 gallon size feeders).


That looks like a 1:2 recipe. 


> The more I study that recipe above....its looks more like a 1:2 recipe instead of a 2:1. Am I right??


I believe so. 


> So, I'm wondering if this recipe should of read like this..... 1 quart of water to 2 quarts sugar, 2 quarts water to 4 quarts of sugar, and then 4 quarts of water to 8 quarts of sugar. Is this really the 2:1 recipe??


I believe so.

It probably doesn't matter a lot. 

I suspect the reason for feeding 2:1 in the fall is that it won't take so much bee effort to condense the syrup down to store it in cells.


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## inga (Feb 21, 2007)

MountainCamp said:


> Bees do not consume honey or 2:1 syrup as is. It must be diluted for consumption.



H'mm ... that's an interesting observation.

So where do they get the water in the winter?

I do have an idea that the 2:1 syrup is less likely to ferment because it is a fully saturated solution. If a more dilute syrup is not used quickly, it might ferment.


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

I use 2:1 when ever I feed. No point in multiple refillings of feeders to feed the same amount of sugar. Alot of people feed fondant and HFCS: both have a higher sucrose content than simple syrup. I am not sure that 1:1 even had a use before some beek somewhere decided to dilute simple syrup.


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## MountainCamp (Apr 12, 2002)

During the winter they get water from condensate on inside hive parts, melting snow, and rain.

I set all of my hive for the winter up with granular sugar on paper placed on the top bars. The granular sugar absorbs moisture and the bees eat it.

http://www.mountaincampfarm.com/wst_page5.php


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## Joshua2639 (Apr 2, 2006)

*by weight or volume?*

Quote: (For example, see the Wikipedia entry http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Beekeep...s_for_the_Bees)

This site mentions 1:1 and 2:1 by weight. I thought it was by volume. Whats right and does it matter?


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## danameric (Mar 11, 2007)

Joshua2639 said:


> Quote: (For example, see the Wikipedia entry http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Beekeep...s_for_the_Bees)
> 
> This site mentions 1:1 and 2:1 by weight. I thought it was by volume. Whats right and does it matter?


I filled a 50 ml beaker to the 40 ml mark with water and it weighed 34 grams (should have weiged 40 but the beakers arn't that accurate) To the same beaker I added 40 ml of sugar and it weighed 38 grams. It appears to be pretty close. At least with the granular sugar. 

Note: its best to measure your sugar and water prior to mixing. Sugar disolved in water does not take up the same amount of space as granulated.

Prior to this I tried filling a beaker to the 100 ml mark and puting sugar cubes in it till the 200 mark. The sugar ended up weighing 130 grams per 100 ml and the water ended up weighing 88 grams per 100 ml. I know beakers arn't the most accurate, but they've got to be better than a quart jar.


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## danameric (Mar 11, 2007)

So what's best to start package bees on then? 1:1 or 2:1?


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

Packages need to draw comb, start them on 2:1. I think I remember from Intro Chem that it is supposed to be by weight, but I don't worry about that and just mix 2:1 by measurement.


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

I don't think it matters and feed what is most convenient. Bees can go get water or dry it down to make it water consistency they want.


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## DoubleB (Sep 23, 2006)

I was taught to use 1:1 in Spring, and 2:1 in Fall. And, it is by weight. A good reference is to remember that a quart of water weighs 2 pounds, then a gallon weighs 8 pounds. 1:1 would then be 8 pounds of sugar to 8 pounds (1 gal) water. I recently mixed 36 pounds of sugar with 4 1/2 gallons (36 pounds) of water and ended up with a volume of approximately +7 gallons of sugar syrup. Warm but not boiling water will help the sugar dissolve. P.S. Hoping to get my packages tomorrow.......


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

By weight or by volume???? What difference does it make when the weight of a quart of water is the same as a quart of sugar.


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## BeeAware (Mar 24, 2007)

5 lbs of sugar per 2 1/2 quarts of water = 1:1 For 2:1, add 10 lbs sugar per 2 1/2 quarts of water. 5 Lbs = 80 oz of sugar, 2 1/2 quarts of water =80 oz.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

A pint's a pound the world around and lucky for beekeepers sugar weighs a pint a pound and so does water. So, it just doesn't matter.

Even if it DID matter the bees don't care they will take 2:1, 1:1 or 1:2 and do the same thing with it. 2:1 will save them a lot of work and weigh a lot less when you haul it to the beeyard and keep a lot longer. But other than that, it just doesn't matter.

>I thought I had a 2:1 recipe, which is 1 quart of water to 2 cups of sugar, or 2 quarts water to 4 cups sugar, or 4 quarts of water to 8 cups of sugar (I use this one for my 2 gallon size feeders).

1 quart of water is two pints. 2 cups of sugar is one pint. that's 1 part sugar to 2 parts water or 1:2.

>The more I study that recipe above....its looks more like a 1:2 recipe instead of a 2:1. Am I right?? 

You are right. The bees till won't care.


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## carbide (Nov 21, 2004)

As Michael says, It really doesn't matter if you use volume or weight to measure out your syrup mix. Sugar and water are basically the same weight for the same volume. One cup of sugar is the same weight as one cup of water. One quart of sugar is the same weight as one quart of water. One bucket of sugar is the same weight as one bucket of water. One barrel of sugar is the same.........etc.....etc.

When I want a 1:1 syrup mix, I use one (cup, quart, bucket) of sugar with one (cup, quart, bucket) of water. As long as I use the same measureing device for both the sugar and water, I know that one measure of sugar is equal to one measure of water.

If I want a 2:1 syrup mix, I just use two measures of sugar to one measure of water. It doesn't matter what measureing device I use as long as I use the same device for both substances. 

I normally just use a bucket for measureing out my syrup quantities.


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## Cyndi (Apr 26, 2005)

So, now that we've settled this.....whew! boy am I glad. Do these same principals apply to my hummingbird feeders. This is where I do a 4:1, four parts water and 1 part sugar. However, I think they'd like the bees formula too, LOL!!


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## Joshua2639 (Apr 2, 2006)

Ok, great I got it. 

So it really doesn't matter. Even if it came out to be 1.0125:1 or 2.13:1 or .98:1 or 1.976:1 the bees will know what to do with it.


Thanks!!

Josh


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

Joshua2639 said:


> So it really doesn't matter. Even if it came out to be 1.0125:1 or 2.13:1 or .98:1 or 1.976:1 the bees will know what to do with it.


Right....and that is why I only feed 2:1


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## Oldbee (Sep 25, 2006)

Cyndi: "So, now that we've settled this.....whew! boy am I glad". Nope! it's not "settled" yet!!! We have not yet begun to discuss all about, MILLITERS, MILLIGRAMS, GRAMS, CUPS, GALLONS and and how they are all related. I think the problem stems from mixing quarts [an assumed liquid] with cups [an assumed solid] with the weight of the two. Oh, I am "brain dead" already as you all probably know.


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## Oldbee (Sep 25, 2006)

"Brain dead" from reading all this about; 2:1, 1:2, 1:1, and even 4:1. Where did that come from?


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## Oldbee (Sep 25, 2006)

Cyndi: "This is where I do a 4:1, four parts water and one part sugar". Now this is where the problem begins!! Mixing up the "birds" and the "bees". You just can't do that!!. For the bees it is SUGAR to WATER!! [in formulas], NOT!! WATER to SUGAR!! For your BIRDS it may be water to sugar, so don't confuse us all!!


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## Cyndi (Apr 26, 2005)

Oldbee said:


> Cyndi: "So, now that we've settled this.....whew! boy am I glad". Nope! it's not "settled" yet!!! We have not yet begun to discuss all about, MILLITERS, MILLIGRAMS, GRAMS, CUPS, GALLONS and and how they are all related. I think the problem stems from mixing quarts [an assumed liquid] with cups [an assumed solid] with the weight of the two. Oh, I am "brain dead" already as you all probably know.


Well, let's all be brain dead together, LOL!!


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## Cyndi (Apr 26, 2005)

Oldbee said:


> Cyndi: "This is where I do a 4:1, four parts water and one part sugar". Now this is where the problem begins!! Mixing up the "birds" and the "bees". You just can't do that!!. For the bees it is SUGAR to WATER!! [in formulas], NOT!! WATER to SUGAR!! For your BIRDS it may be water to sugar, so don't confuse us all!!


Sorry Oldbee, 1:4 just didn't look right to me. 2:1 looks good, so does 1:1 and 1:2, but 1:4??? Besides, you know how we cooks are with our recipes....we know what our chicken scratch means, whereas other's do not. Well, usually. Kinda like my original recipe that I posted earlier...at the time I got it, I knew what it meant. Until I had to do it 2 years later, like...Oops. You gotta admit that was a really bad recipe mixing cups and quarts like that, LOL!!

Sooo, you're right, I need to start being more organized, so 1:4 it shall bee,


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## Oldbee (Sep 25, 2006)

It is 12:30 AM. here and I should go to sleep. If this 2:1 , 1:2, 1:1, or that ??? 4:1 whatever, doesn't keep me awake all night!


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## Oldbee (Sep 25, 2006)

It is 1:00 AM. and I am still awake!! Now if I can only remember what M.B. said? Ah! yes, it really doesn't matter, the bees won't care. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!!


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

you need stronger drugs man


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## Cyndi (Apr 26, 2005)

Oldbee, you doing okay?? Did you finally go to sleep last night,


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