# rolling a queen



## AR Beekeeper (Sep 25, 2008)

Squeezing a queen's abdomen is a very good way of damaging her egg laying ability or killing her. If she has flown to mate, but has not started to lay, the best way to have her start is to trickle feed her colony 1:1 sugar syrup.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Are you feeding them at all? Or is there a flow on for you?


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## physicsdude (Mar 6, 2015)

I have been feeding them 5:3. Other queens are laying just fine with that. These are Italians, so I would think that they would always be laying a little. Yesterday I gave the hives with queens not laying 1:1. Hopefully that will help.

Queens came from Wildflower Meadows. They let the queens lay for 10 days before harvesting, so they were laying at one point. (Though I understand that it's not particularly good for the queens to harvest them before they have been laying for 3 weeks?)


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## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

Try adding a frame with open brood. That could help.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Are you able to reference the source, or content, of the advice to roll the queen? Before judging, I'd like to see the original statement in context.

But without that, and just at surface level, rolling a queen to make her lay sounds like very, very, bad advice.

Some questions. Do the queens look big, like mated queens, or smaller, like virgins? Are they black or striped, as in, a breed that may take a brood break? And are any of your non requeened hives taking a brood break? Were the requeened hives queenless for any time before you put the new queens in there, ie, could there be a virgin that has killed the introduced queen but you think it is the one you introduced?


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Sounds like total hogwash to me. This is the time of year that queens stop laying naturally. Try sticking in a frame of brood and eggs. If she's not up to par, the bees will make a supercedure cell. That you have three doing this make me think it is normal.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

physicsdude said:


> . (Though I understand that it's not particularly good for the queens to harvest them before they have been laying for 3 weeks?)


In very early spring, when queens are in high demand, they may lay a day or two before being pulled.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

With the Italians bees, it is not true. The queens can lay in
small patches through out the winter time. They will never stop laying
all winter long because we are in a mild winter area. Over here the carnis will shut down but not the Italians when it is cold. Because our mini-Autumn flow is getting started beginning with the Loquat trees just blooming now. I still have the canola and wild mustard barely started to bloom. The eucalyptus trees signal the beginning of our mini-Autumn flow which is as natural as can be. Good more option for my bees to forage!

I don't know if the OP has the eucalyptus trees there. My foragers just beginning to pick up the white pollen from these trees over here. Driving around today I saw the pinkish eucalyptus flowers blooming all over the 50'+ tree. We also have the white flowering trees. These can grow really tall if nobody bother to trim them down. One such big tree can support an entire hive plus more. Flowers will last until early frost day whenever that is, maybe until late-Jan. You have to look into our micro-climate in which CA has many of them.

Bottom line is don't roll the queens because you will make long term damage to her laying abiblity. Some might take a week or 2 with 1:1 feeding if the seller bank his queens. On II, we CO2 the queen before and after the process so she will start laying. Maybe you should try to CO2 them to stimulate the laying again, I'm not sure. Give the seller a call to see if there is a replacement policy for them. But rolling them is bad!



Wild mustard blooming:


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Oldtimer said:


> Are you able to reference the source, or content, of the advice to roll the queen? Before judging, I'd like to see the original statement in context.
> 
> But without that, and just at surface level, rolling a queen to make her lay sounds like very, very, bad advice.


The ONLY place I have ever seen it is in a single post here on BS. It was probably 3 years ago that I saw it and the post might be significantly older than that. I don't remember there being any other confirmatory posts agreeing with it. Can't remember who posted it.



beepro said:


> Bottom line is don't roll the queens because you will make long term damage to her laying abiblity. Some might take a week or 2 with 1:1 feeding if the seller bank his queens. On II, we CO2 the queen before and after the process so she will start laying. Maybe you should try to CO2 them to stimulate the laying again, I'm not sure. Give the seller a call to see if there is a replacement policy for them. But rolling them is bad!


How many queens have you II'd, beepro?


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

4 so far but repeated II already lost track of it. Given this late in
the season, it was hard to keep the drones and make the virgins. Doing it just before the
close of the season the bees cannot give me much. Next season will be more fun with improved II
equipment added. Continuing to upgrade my II station. It is all pure learning and experimental work now!


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I would not "roll" a queen on purpose. Her stinging you is not a valid worry, she won't. Damaging her internal organs is a valid concern, though.


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