# Best veil for cutout?



## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

I would suggest one of the veils that zips onto a jacket or coveralls. Less likely to gap open and allow bees to get inside your veil.

cchoganjr


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## whiskeytripping (Nov 16, 2012)

Thanks Cleo for the advice, im kind of a big guy and haven't ever bought a suit, i have some Dickies 1 piece zip up coveralls that work great (only got stung once in several outings) 
And my hat and veil work awesome, its great for working bees in hives, but found it somewhat lacking in the world of cutouts:s


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

Yes, the positions you will get into, in doing a cutout, will often cause the veil to gap open along the sides or front or back and once inside they tell all the others, "come on in, here is the door"

I agree you don't normally need any kind of suit, coveralls, etc, but, cutouts are a whole different ball game.

cchoganjr


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## robherc (Mar 17, 2012)

I regularly do cutouts in AHB territory here on the TX coast (think I'm about a 5 hr drive south of you) using my 100% homemade equipment. Last year I never got a sting under or through the veil, though during the course of the year I did end up having a total of about 6 visitors (all 1 at a time, thankfully) find a way into my veil. This year, I came up with a new "design" for my veil that takes away all the screen from around my ears & behind my head, due to some "close calls" I had last year, and found the "magic" entrance those 6 bees must have used...the grommet holes around the "chin strap" string...skinny girls!

Anywise, if you're very handy, you can make a VERY serviceable veil for cutouts yourself; you'll need the following:

1 "Panama Jack" style hat (nice wide, round brim...and the ones with mesh up top help a LOT with the "sweating problem"...as long as you're not completely bald, I haven't seen anyone get stung thru the mesh)
1 yard of "muslin" cloth (you can find this at any fabric store...even at Wal-Mart), light-color and light-weight are both beneficial (you'll be doubling it over on itself & wrapping your head in it...this stuff needs to "breathe" or you'll roast)
1 strip (mine's 22" by 9.5") of black vinyl/"fiberglass" window screen (you can use aluminum, or other colors, but the black vinyl/"fiberglass" stuff glares less for me, and aluminum can end up getting "bent in" to your face by a falling comb/whatever & stay on your face long enough to get you stung)
"Plastic Boning" or, for those of us who don't work in the fashion industry (sorry, I have mortar in my veins...spent many a year shoveling "mud" on masonary jobsites), the plastic strip off a 5-gal bucket lid will work GREAT (it's what I used for 2 our of 3 veils I've made so far...and the one with a coat hangar in it didn't do as well)
Sewing machine

First things first, you most likely WILL NOT win any beesuit fashion contests while wearing this thing, BUT, it has kept me from ever getting stung under or through the veil, even when covered in so many angry, RAID-sprayed AHBs that I quite literally looked more like a statue made of bees than a man! (unfortunately, my pants didn't protect me quite so well on that removal, and I ended up popping a LOT of benadryl for the next couple weeks, got a few dozen stings & I react pretty badly to them  )

If you want me to come up with + post full instructions for making this veil here in this thread, say the word & I'll see what I can come up with; if you'd prefer to have me make one for you, them PM me and we can discuss pricing/time/size/etc.


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## whiskeytripping (Nov 16, 2012)

Man, thanks for the thorough write up about this. I might see if my wife can taylor up something like this myself. Im fixing to start charging 125$ to exterminate these kind of bees. Thats what the guy thats coming out to their place is charging, and even more if they want me to remove the comb and brood from the walls. This man and his dad showed up and they had a house with aluminum siding, i dont know even how that stuff is locked together, but the guy said to go ahead and try to pull out on the bottom of it, well these bees proceeded to eat this man and his 90 year old dad up, they went to running the best they could being that old. They even got about 75 yards away and the bees kept coming and attacking them And i felt helpless cause i couldnt even help them, because i had so many bees on me that made their problems look like child's play, i finally got in their car and met up with them about a quarter mile down the road . They each got stung a couple of dozen times and went to the emergency room

Im ALL FOR saving bees even mean ones. But these AHB's need to GO! I know you can fix them be requeening, but in the meantime they are very dangerous bees, now if i could have gotten into that siding without tearing up his house too much i would have gotten them anyways BUT with what all happened, we didnt get that far. What kind of can of poision works best? Ive always used the Bengal red can thats about 18$ a can. Although ive never used it for bees, im sure it would work. It kills the hell out of roaches, spiders and fireants. Again, im not big on killing bees at all, but this particular kind of bees need killing due to being so dangerous. So if i can get paid to take them out (with poision) i will. i didnt charge for that call out


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## My-smokepole (Apr 14, 2008)

I love my ultra breeze jacket. Going on three or four years. I know that there are people that do them with nothing but I haven't been that brave. 
David


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

I have two ventilated jackets with fencing veils that zip on. never an issue with bees getting under the veil at all ever. The fencing veils seems to be good as far as access in tight spaces as well. Any veil is going to be large and a problem. I do have issues with it blocking my view if I am looking at something from certain angles. Your description of being under at trailer for example might cause you some problems. I have seen others mention this Peripheral vision issue as well. They make another style veil for this jacket but I don't own one so cannot say if it is better worse or the same. What I can say is that both this jacket and veil keeps the bees out.


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## robherc (Mar 17, 2012)

whiskeytripping said:


> Man, thanks for the thorough write up about this. I might see if my wife can taylor up something like this myself.


Cool, PM me if you want a rough "pattern," or more instructions on how I did mine.




> Im fixing to start charging 125$ to exterminate these kind of bees.


Unfortunately, at least here in Texas, it's absolutely illegal to intentionally exterminate a hive (at least one that you don't "own" without a "pesticide applicator's permit." My mentor reminded me at least a dozen times last year of a few beeks he knew who were fined thousands for "crossing the line" between being licensed for removals, and licensed to exterminate.
By my interpretation, Texas ag code allows me, with my removal license, to remove bees from anywhere they're not wanted, and collect payment for the removal, but requires me to put forth every reasonable effort to ensure the survival of the hive. Thankfully, that does NOT mean I can't requeen them as soon as I get them into my equipment & on my property 
My suggestion for dealing with such AHB hives is to keep a "Cell-buider" nuc going during your whole cut-out season, so as soon as you get the AHB hive home, you can get a capped queen cell from the cell builder hive & put it in the new hive. Short of finding & smashing the queen, then any Q cells they build in the next week, it's the surest method I've found to requeen them.




> ...They even got about 75 yards away and the bees kept coming and attacking them ... i finally got in their car and met up with them about a quarter mile down the road . They each got stung a couple of dozen times and went to the emergency room


Unfortunately, this sounds *mild* compared to some of the reactions I've gotten from AHB hives; there have been *several* removals I've worked on (not to mention the resultant hives, until the brood from my requeening them matured) where I'd have to have my wife follow me for up to 1/2mile with the car, before enough bees would "give up the chase" to where she could suit up & between us we could get my suit cleared of bees, so I could get in the car & drive home. AHB are *NOT* something to be taken lightly, but, with proper equipment, they can be dealt with successfully.




> What kind of can of poision works best? Ive always used the Bengal red can thats about 18$ a can. Although ive never used it for bees, im sure it would work. ... Again, im not big on killing bees at all, but this particular kind of bees need killing due to being so dangerous. So if i can get paid to take them out (with poision) i will. i didnt charge for that call out


Unfortunately, without a "pesticide applicator's license" there are no poisons you can spray on honey bees (at all, anywhere, even 1-2 inside your house); doing so would be a violation of licensing, and a violation of Federal laws, so I can't emphasize enough how much I recommend *HIGHLY* against that!
One thing that a homeowner CAN *legally* do (notice I didn't say it would necessarily be intelligent...that depends on the homeowner) to kill offending honeybees, is to shower them with soapy water. As soap-water is not considered a "poison" or "insecticide," to my knowledge at least, in any jurisdiction I'm aware of, it's a practice that would only be regulated if you were paid to kill a hive that way (then it'd be a fineable violation of your removal license). That said, I don't personally *think* it'd be any kind of violation for you to "soap down" any "stragglers" after you've safely removed & saved the hive; I've done this on several cut-outs myself. I.E. Do the cut-out; get as many bees as possible, along with some brood comb "boxed up;" spray any remaining bees, the general area of the old hive, and anywhere comb/honey/bees fell on the ground, with some soapy water...maybe call it "cleaning up" lol.

The options I personally see for you, concerning hives like this (I'm not a lawyer though, so don't take this as legal advice...check with a lawyer if you want to be *sure*) are:

Charge for the removal; Remove the hive; requeen ASAP on your property (hopefully you own, or at least have access to, a rural plot?)
Don't charge *anything* for the "removal"; go over "as a friend" and douse the bees with soapy water; leave the homeowner(s) to hire someone else to remove the combs & dead bees. (this is not a method I'd recommend, or even necessarily condone, but, to the best of my personal knowledge, it would not be illegal here in TX)


P.S. As an aside, I don't do *any* removals for under $250 anymore. I invest about that much (if I were to pay myself for my time building stuff) in equipment for each removal, so the customer at least has to cover my expenses before I'll even consider taking the job.


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