# Scout bees at my bait hive! (short video)



## IAmTheWaterbug

This is my very first bait hive! I put it here over the summer, just to be prepared. This happened this morning:






I saw a few go in and a few come out. This is inside my unused chicken coop, the wall of which has been colonized twice. I did a cutout in 2011 (and gave the bees away ), and then again in 2014, when I kept them.

You can see that same wall right behind the bait hive in the video, with remnants of the old wax. So bees seem to like this chicken coop! There's 6' width of wall that no longer has its plywood paneling, due to the two previous cutouts, and I hammered in a lot more nails around the rest of the coop over the summer to close up all the remaining entrances to the remaining areas of hollow wall. Or at least I think I did.

The bait hive is a 5-frame deep nuc, with one wood frame, fully drawn with old comb, and 4 plastic frame-and-foundation frames (because that's all I have right now). I have a ziploc bag with 2 cotton balls, each with a drop of LGO, on top of the frames, plus two drops of LGO on the bottom board. And then I have the entrance reduced to about 1.5" wide.

How does one know if a swarm has moved in, other than opening the top of the box and scaring them away? Bee traffic? Stethoscope? If I do see evidence of move-in, how long should I let them settle before moving them 30' to my bee yard? (I don't want to leave them here because my neighbor's picnic table and swimming pool are 8' to the right of the video).

Anything else I should do to encourage move-in? Put up a sign that says "Free rent!"?


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## bobbybee

I like the "Free rent" idea. lol
I've heard that when they are bringing in pollen, they are probably raising brood. When they are raising brood in there, they have committed to the hive.


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## SWAT253

When you see pollen going in, you're in business!!

Nice work!


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## IAmTheWaterbug

I saw a few more bees going in and out this morning, than on Monday. It wasn't a lot of traffic, but this spot is shaded, and it hadn't warmed up very much yet. Even my "main" colony, out in the full sun, hadn't really woken up thoroughly yet.

Once I see pollen going in, is it safe to move the box then?

Should I resist the temptation to look inside? If I do peek, smoke or no smoke? 

So exciting!

p.s. I also told the scouts that we offer free WiFi.


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## Scpossum

I would just crack it open and take a look.


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## IAmTheWaterbug

Smoke? Or no smoke?


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## Scpossum

If it is small enough that you don't see a lot of bees going in and out, you probably don't need smoke. But you could have it lit and ready just in case. If they have been in there a few days, they probably have eggs and/or brood by now.


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## Riverderwent

IAmTheWaterbug said:


> How does one know if a swarm has moved in, other than opening the top of the box and scaring them away?


Check with a flashlight after dark. If they are there after dark, they are there. Pollen coming in also means that they have moved in.



> If I do see evidence of move-in, how long should I let them settle before moving them 30' to my bee yard? (I don't want to leave them here because my neighbor's picnic table and swimming pool are 8' to the right of the video).


In these circumstances how long you wait doesn't matter. Obstruct the entrance with a very leafy branch that the bees have to fly around so that the bees will reorient after you move the hive.



> Anything else I should do to encourage move-in? Put up a sign that says "Free rent!"?


In my location, bees can't read. Common Core.


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## IAmTheWaterbug

No tenants, yet. I cracked the cover this weekend, and no one was inside. But I'm still getting scouts around the entrance. Any time I check it out, when it's not cold/wet/dark, I see 3-4-5 scouts milling around.

But what type of behavior is this?






It looks like two dogs meeting at the dog park! 

How does one tell if two scouts are from the same hive?

And when is prime swarm season in Los Angeles, anyway?


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## Hoot Owl Lane Bees

It's a board meeting.


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## dynemd

IAmTheWaterbug said:


> And when is prime swarm season in Los Angeles, anyway?


Prime swarm season is now. They are evaluating and when they swarm they may pick your box and all crawl in. Any day now, be patient.


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## IAmTheWaterbug

dynemd said:


> Prime swarm season is now. They are evaluating and when they swarm they may pick your box and all crawl in. Any day now, be patient.


So bees routinely scout locations far in advance of swarming? 

Do they only scout if they're thinking about swarming? Or do all bees automatically go towards LGO to check things out?

My one existing hive is ~30 feet away from this trap, but they're so weak right now that I can't imagine they have any swarming impulse at all.


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## IAmTheWaterbug

Hoot Owl Lane Bees said:


> It's a board meeting.


Ba dum bump.


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## IAmTheWaterbug

dynemd said:


> Prime swarm season is now. They are evaluating and when they swarm they may pick your box and all crawl in. Any day now, be patient.


Oooh, oooh, oooooooh!!!!! This looks like more than scouts!






Did I catch one? Did I catch one?


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## dynemd

Patience Grasshopper! Patience...


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## odfrank

scouts


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## IAmTheWaterbug

Riverderwent said:


> Check with a flashlight after dark. If they are there after dark, they are there. Pollen coming in also means that they have moved in.


Nope. I went back out with a flashlight at 10:30 PM, and there was nobody home. 

I'm going to read some more Honeybee Democracy right now . . .


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## IAmTheWaterbug

Ah, this is what I'll be looking for over in the coming days. This is someone else's swarm trap, in Australia:






They're approximately 6 months off cycle from me in Los Angeles, which is nice, because they're approximately 180 degrees around the earth from me, too.


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## IAmTheWaterbug

IAmTheWaterbug said:


> Nope. I went back out with a flashlight at 10:30 PM, and there was nobody home.
> 
> I'm going to read some more Honeybee Democracy right now . . .


I finished it! And reviewed some chapters I'd read previously. Apparently a nuc box is a tad on the small side of optimal, and a 10-frame deep or 8-frame deep is closer to the 40 liter interior volume that Seeley found to be favored.

I swapped the nuc out for a 10-frame deep on Sunday, and this morning I saw a lot more scouts:






Not quite a quorum, yet.


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## IAmTheWaterbug

I think I got one! 






It might not be obvious from the video, but there are many more bees going in than coming out, and this was around 7:00 PM, when swarm scouts would have quit for the day. 

I went back to look and listen at 11:00 PM, and the entrance was full of bees, and there was an audible hum inside the box. 

I got 'em! My very first swarm!

I'm going to let them sit for a day or two, and then maybe I'll move them to their new location Saturday night. There are 10 frames inside, including 1 to 1.5 frames of drawn comb, some plasticomb, and some foundationless wood frames with starter strips. So I don't think they'll build crazy comb.

Should I feed? How soon should I wait until I open it up for a real inspection?


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## bobbybee

That's great. Much better than trying to get them out of a tree. I'd leave them for a few days for sure. Even a week. If you don't have something blooming, yes you probably need to feed. If you do, then I'd let them do their thing.


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## Mr.Beeman

I'd let them be for at least two weeks. NO feed. If you start a robbing frenzy, the bees will buzz out with a quickness.


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## IAmTheWaterbug

And here they are this morning:






On Thursday I leave town for 11 days, so I'll probably poke my head in just before I leave, then do a real inspection when I get back.

Since they moved in yesterday, and had some comb already, I could have bees emerging within a few days after I get back.

I'll check my main colony tomorrow; if they're putting away nectar then I'll know everyone has food.

Thanks, everyone! It's been a really fun experience!


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## Thomassen

Scouts from the same hive will fly back in the same direction. I caught a swarm last June. I had scouts checking the bait hive out from at least three different swarms. How could I tell? Bees were flying back in three different directions. ;-)


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## IAmTheWaterbug

I'm thinking that, once I get this colony moved to my bee yard proper, I should put the trap right back there and get another one!

A swarm in March is worth a . . . . ??


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## Bee Nut

That's awesome! Congrats


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## crmauch

IAmTheWaterbug said:


> So bees routinely scout locations far in advance of swarming?
> 
> Do they only scout if they're thinking about swarming? Or do all bees automatically go towards LGO to check things out?
> 
> My one existing hive is ~30 feet away from this trap, but they're so weak right now that I can't imagine they have any swarming impulse at all.


From my reading: When hives get near to swarming, some foragers convert to 'scouting'. The scouts actually 'vote' on various hive options. If you get about 20-25 scouts, that becomes a 'quorum', and your trap will probably be chosen.

Very much simplified from 
Honeybee Democracy

I can't speak to the LGO. Think it might be attractive to all bees, but only scouts would fully check out a nest box (my guess/opinion).


Sorry hadn't read later posts. You've already read Seeley's book and you got a swarm. Congratulations!!!!


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## IAmTheWaterbug

I'm back! If I count "move-in" day as Day 0, then today is Day 19. I checked this colony this morning, and they look great!






How many bees would one estimate were in the original swarm? I'm assuming these are all original bees, as I didn't see any emerging brood in the video. There were also bees on the wall and floor of the box.

When I compare this to my weak colony, there's just no comparison. This swarm already has more bees than my weak colony, and by this weekend I'll have twice the numbers. The lay pattern is obviously far superior, and they're putting away more nectar. I suppose that other colony just has a crappy queen. So it's not my fault!

It's nice to have some good news after yesterday's misadventure.


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## IAmTheWaterbug

IAmTheWaterbug said:


> This is my very first bait hive! I put it here over the summer, just to be prepared. This happened this morning:


Ok, it's been a year and a day since scout showed up at my bait hive on 3/9/16, and they moved in on 3/24/16.

I put an empty box in the same place, with the same LGO, so where are they this year? 

Lazy, unpredictable, good-fer-nuthin' bees.😡


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## Kenww

I've had 50-150 scouts on different days. I assume that they're pretty serious about m trap? How far ahead of the swarm do you see that much scouting? Maybe several hives are scouting it?


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## IAmTheWaterbug

That video was from 3/9/16, last year, and the swarm moved in 15 days later.

I've seen no scouts this year.😡


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## IAmTheWaterbug

IAmTheWaterbug said:


> Ok, it's been a year and a day since scout showed up at my bait hive on 3/9/16, and they moved in on 3/24/16.
> 
> I put an empty box in the same place, with the same LGO, so where are they this year?
> 
> Lazy, unpredictable, good-fer-nuthin' bees.&#55357;&#56865;


So, even accounting for the extra day in 2016, my free bees are running late. They should have been here no later than 3/25.

But, more seriously, for those of you who routinely catch swarms in the same locations, do you find that the arrival dates are similar from year to year?


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## IAmTheWaterbug

Ah, I finally saw scouts yesterday, which is ~3 weeks later than they showed up last year.

Last year they scouted it for 2 weeks before they moved in, but during that time I swapped out the nuc for a full sized deep. Once I had the deep in place they moved in 4 days later. This year I'm starting with a deep, and I have more drawn comb inside.

I leave town tomorrow for a nearly a week. I expect to have free bees by the time I return, or else I shall file a grievance with my local swarm office.


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## IAmTheWaterbug

A week later, and no free bees yet. There were plenty of scouts this morning, but they were definitely scouts. No one was looking they like they owned the place, and there appeared to be some fighting amongst the scouts as well.


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## nchvac

Riverderwent said:


> Check with a flashlight after dark. If they are there after dark, they are there. Pollen coming in also means that they have moved in.
> 
> In these circumstances how long you wait doesn't matter. Obstruct the entrance with a very leafy branch that the bees have to fly around so that the bees will reorient after you move the hive.
> 
> In my location, bees can't read. Common Core.


When you say "obstruct the entrance", are you putting the "leafy branch" in front of the entrance like a physical obstacle, or just in front enough they can see it to know something is different?

Reason I ask is I tried to move a swarm like this last year. I had caught it in a 10 frame deep that I set up on top of an old schoolbus. I moved the bees about 400 yards and put a metal yard sign up against the landing board leaned onto the top of the hive so they had to go around it to get out. I moved them an hour after dark. The next day my old man calls and says the bees are wanting to go for a ride on the bus. When I got there they had formed a beard on the rear flasher light on the top of the bus. I figured out pretty quickly that I was looking at the foragers whom evidently didn't reorient when they left out that morning. There is no way they didn't see that sign blocking their flight path straight out the front of the hive. Anyway, put the box back up on top and they herded right into it like cattle.


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## gww

nch
If you don't move 3 miles some will go back for a while. Also if you moved them when they first entered rather then after they had been there for a while, fewer will go back. Even if they go back, they may around dark start looking for the hive and do that for several days. I moved mine the night they entered the trap and some the nest day did go back but the majority of the swarm stayed at the hive site. I didnt put the trap back up immediatly though.

I figure you are going to lose some if you move close but the branch probly helps.
I only have a very small bit of experiance to come up with my view on this. Actually only one swarm that didn't fit the three mile rule.
Cheers
gww


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## IAmTheWaterbug

nchvac said:


> When you say "obstruct the entrance", are you putting the "leafy branch" in front of the entrance like a physical obstacle, or just in front enough they can see it to know something is different?
> 
> Reason I ask is I tried to move a swarm like this last year. I had caught it in a 10 frame deep that I set up on top of an old schoolbus. I moved the bees about 400 yards and put a metal yard sign up against the landing board leaned onto the top of the hive so they had to go around it to get out. I moved them an hour after dark. The next day my old man calls and says the bees are wanting to go for a ride on the bus. When I got there they had formed a beard on the rear flasher light on the top of the bus. I figured out pretty quickly that I was looking at the foragers whom evidently didn't reorient when they left out that morning. There is no way they didn't see that sign blocking their flight path straight out the front of the hive. Anyway, put the box back up on top and they herded right into it like cattle.


Obstruct the entrance so that they have to change their normal flight path to go out and forage. This is what triggers a re-orientation flight that allows them to find their new home on the return. Seeing a branch isn't enough; they need to be forced to fly around it.

That said, I moved my trapped swarm last year, 3-4 days after they moved in, and despite the leafy branch I still had ~200 foragers return to the old site and go torpid at night.


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## IAmTheWaterbug

IAmTheWaterbug said:


> A week later, and no free bees yet. There were plenty of scouts this morning, but they were definitely scouts. No one was looking they like they owned the place, and there appeared to be some fighting amongst the scouts as well.


They moved in yesterday 






So they're right about 2 weeks later than last year. I'm going to leave them bee for a week and then move them 30' to the apiary.

And then I'll put another box in the same place.


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## gww

That was fun wasn't it.
Cheers
gww


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## IAmTheWaterbug

IAmTheWaterbug said:


> Obstruct the entrance so that they have to change their normal flight path to go out and forage. This is what triggers a re-orientation flight that allows them to find their new home on the return. Seeing a branch isn't enough; they need to be forced to fly around it.


By the way, hang the branch down from the top board, with a brick. Don't lean it against the landing board from the ground. Otherwise you make an ant bridge that brings thousands of ants into your new colony to eat all their stores and larvae. Don't ask me how I know this.inch:


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## nchvac

Thomassen said:


> Scouts from the same hive will fly back in the same direction. I caught a swarm last June. I had scouts checking the bait hive out from at least three different swarms. How could I tell? Bees were flying back in three different directions. ;-)


Should have put out a couple more traps


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## IAmTheWaterbug

IAmTheWaterbug said:


> I'm going to leave them bee for a week and then move them 30' to the apiary.
> 
> And then I'll put another box in the same place.


So I moved them to the bee yard about a week later, then left the trap location empty for another week to make sure the foragers stopped returning there.

A put a new deep with 5 frames there about a 4-5 days ago, and then yesterday another swarm moved in!






There's almost as much bee traffic as from my established hives, so this could be a big swarm. I'll go in tomorrow and take a look (and to add the remaining 5 frames). I hope I have a queen! (but I most probably do, given their behavior).

So that's 5 swarms at this location over the years. 2 complete infestations requiring cutouts in 2011 and 2014, one swarm trapped in 2016, and two trapped this year. I'll move them in a few days, and then reset the trap again!


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## IAmTheWaterbug

IAmTheWaterbug said:


> There's almost as much bee traffic as from my established hives, so this could be a big swarm. I'll go in tomorrow and take a look (and to add the remaining 5 frames). I hope I have a queen! (but I most probably do, given their behavior).


Nope. It's a small swarm, and probably a virgin after-swarm at that. On Saturday they'd built a spade of comb off the top cover (completely ignoring the beautiful assortment of plastic frames and foundationless frames I'd offered them) which I clipped into an empty frame. But there were only enough bees to cover 2-3 frames, and no eggs whatsoever. 

Should I expect eggs on Day 3 if there were a mated queen in the swarm and plenty of drawn comb available? Or does it take her awhile to settle in, and for the bees to polish new cells? 

Or is this likely a virgin swarm?


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## soarwitheagles

Congrats to you Waterbug. If you have a laying queen, you should see the eggs within a couple of days, larvae after 3-5 days.

And nice job on catching those swarms.

We caught three swarms here in the last week [caught two swarms today]. For us, swarm season was a bit late due to the awesome rain we had this year.

I usually wait a week or two after stuffing them in their new home, then, if I do not see any eggs or larvae, I simple look for the queen and/or install a couple of frames of sealed brood, open brood, eggs, and larvae. Then wait 3-4 weeks and check back then. To be honest with you, right now, at this time, most of the swarms we catch need nothing to get going. They draw out the comb, bring in the nectar and the pollen, and start laying eggs like crazy.

Good luck to you!


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## IAmTheWaterbug

They're bringing in pollen, so they want to stay, but I still don't know if they have a mated queen. I'm out of town this weekend, so I probably won't get a decent chance to look for another 10 days or so. By that time it will have been 16 days since move-in. If they're queenless, are the workers likely to have started laying by then? Or do I still have time?


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