# Do I need to move honey bars in the winter?



## msl (Sep 6, 2016)

if bees didn't move left/right KTBHs would never have become a thing. Your fine
keep the feed coming, at least for my area your light. best to feed them in a way thats fast so they don't turn it in to brood, and best to get it in the comb and ripend now instead of trying to make up for it mid winter.


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

I didn't look up where Clayton, NC was located, but I am in Smithfield, Virginia and run all topbar hives with observation windows so I can see what is happening all winter long. Ideally, you let the bees decide where they want their stores but if I happen to have a honey bar that is way far away from the others, I will shuffle it closer. I will also remove any empty brood comb that they don't backfill with syrup (this never happens if you feed syrup continually, but I don't always feed until everything is full). Sounds like your winters are similar to what we have here and you will find many days in December and February that the bees are out foraging.

I do like to put a sugar brick in each hive, even if I think they have enough stores. It gives them something to do on the days they can't get out and it is extra insurance. It also absorbs some of the moisture that might build up from the syrup feeding. The bees seem to work the sugar before they start uncapping the honey, leaving the good stuff for spring.


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## AvatarDad (Mar 31, 2016)

Ruthie, do you put a brick on the floor of the hive, hang it in a mesh back from a top bar, or hang it bagless from a bar?

I've been considering a form of some kind to hang a fondant block (basically make a solid sugar follower board using a mold and a top bar) because I'm nervous about ants. I'm curious about how you do it. (For that matter, do you use any kind of "ant moat" around the hive feet?) Any time I feed in the hives, I get these tiny little ants everywhere.

Thank!
Mike


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

AvatarDad said:


> Ruthie, do you put a brick on the floor of the hive, hang it in a mesh back from a top bar, or hang it bagless from a bar?
> 
> I've been considering a form of some kind to hang a fondant block (basically make a solid sugar follower board using a mold and a top bar) because I'm nervous about ants. I'm curious about how you do it. (For that matter, do you use any kind of "ant moat" around the hive feet?) Any time I feed in the hives, I get these tiny little ants everywhere.
> 
> ...


Easiest to set it in the tin pan if your combs do not go all the way to the floor of the hive. Otherwise, I do hang it from a mesh bag. Here is the writeup on my bees' FB page.
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1520991984593993.1073741866.687315994628267&type=1&l=baf264b308


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

As for the ants, I use diatomaceous earth on the solid IPM board underneath the screened bottom and that seems to keep the colonies from taking up residence. The couple to dozen of scavenger ants in the hive just learn to live peacefully with the bees. It's only when I get a colony of ants with eggs that I do something about them.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

If bees didn't move side to side the horizontal hive would not have been the traditional hive of Russia and Scandinavia and they wouldn't be living in soffets and floor joists and old abandoned water heater tanks laying on their sides. My concern is that I have had them move to one end and starve with food at the opposite end. So I like to start winter with the food in front of the cluster in one direction. i.e. the cluster at one end with the stores up against them and any empty bars at the opposite end.


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## NCGrimbo (Dec 15, 2016)

Thanks for all the replies!


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## trishbookworm (Jun 25, 2016)

Yes, bees move fine horizontally - has been working fine in hollow logs, not to mention structures as MB pointed out! We do get trapped in assuming the current dogma is the only dogma. 

It is key that the honey is accessible mainly to one side, not both sides of the entrance - if you have an entrance in the center of the wide wall, you'll need to move things every winter. Also that there are not empty combs or spaces between the brood area and the honey zone. So if you've got that covered, then you are all set! 

As for bees having honey access, I found last winter that I could see a cluster in one of my hives through the front entrance - and from Nov-Feb they stayed on the same combs. I bet they went and retrieved honey from nearby combs on warm days! They really prefer to keep the queen and cluster on the brood comb. I understand that the majority of the honey is used after the weather warms up a bit in March-April for the brood ramp-up. It's pretty well documented in the Langs that bees use less than half of their honey until late Feb (for me in OH) when they really ramp up brooding.


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## John Davis (Apr 29, 2014)

The replies you have received cover what you need as an answer. Think about bee biology and that beekeeping is local. You, Ruthie and I are in similar locations. Winters have frequent periods when the bees break cluster and fly. If the honey is in one area the bees can move over it as needed. If the brood area they are using in winter is next to the stores they can feed and keep the brood warm. If as Michael said, the food is at either end they may raise brood close to one end, run out of food and stay with the brood, starving to death with food they can't reach in the other end of the hive. The outside of the cluster needs to stay in contact with the food so it can be passed from bee to bee when they are clustered tight also keeping the brood warm.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

MOST winters the bees get warm days to rearrange things. Once a decade or two we get a winter without a warm break and one of those was when my bees got to one end and starved. Usually they would manage no matter where the entrance was and where the honey was.


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