# Walter T. Kelly



## shepherd

have not really done any business with them except at conference trade shows. Had an old, old wax melter that the heating element burned out on. Ordered a new element from them last Wednesday and it was at my door on Thursday night. No overnight shipping, just quick service - Kudo's to them. Their catalog has just moved to the top of the pile


----------



## Stonefly7

Hey Shepard,

Love the product, service, HATE the web site. Almost to the point of not using any longer. I like click and see! Not have to enter data several times and try to click through pages to find something.

A company of that caliber should have spent some bucks on a web designer!! We have several good one's on this site.

My two cents


----------



## NasalSponge

Funny you should say that...the main reason I do not use them is their website....not user friendly.


----------



## winevines

Stonefly7 said:


> Hey Shepard,
> 
> a web designer!! We have several good one's on this site.


I need one for our club. We need to put our website into a program that is more easily updatable. RIght now it is in microsoft publisher, and if you do not havew that program you are out of luck. We have some money to throw at it.. any suggestions of folks?
Our website is here: http://www.PWRBeekeepers.com


----------



## StevenG

I have been dealing with them for years, and love their products and service. I find their current catalogue cumbersome, as well as the web site. I have mentioned it to them, and the lady I've talked to indicate they're aware of the catalogue problem at least, and will address it in next year's edition. So don't be afraid to make some gentle constructive criticism. Most companies appreciate that, as it helps them improve their business.


----------



## Walt B

Karla,

When we were looking to update our old web site at my place of employment, I downloaded a free site builder, "Net Objects Fusion Essentials". After going through the tutorial, it wasn't a big deal to start designing. Here's the link:

http://netobjects.com/html/essentials.html

Walt


----------



## oldenglish

winevines said:


> I need one for our club. We need to put our website into a program that is more easily updatable. RIght now it is in microsoft publisher, and if you do not havew that program you are out of luck. We have some money to throw at it.. any suggestions of folks?
> Our website is here: http://www.PWRBeekeepers.com



I find many folks just get too fancy and make the sites too busy, I like to keep them functional and easy on the eye. Here are two sites that I created using "Kompozer" a free site editor, I upload using filezilla (also free) the sites are hosted by fatcow only $66 per year and the online store is created using vstore which has a free version if you dont mind ads.
As you may be able to tell I like free, but not being the brightest person on the block it has to be easy to use as well.
I also dont mind helping folks out with web building stuff.

www.nwdba.org
www.beezneezapiary.com


----------



## Jeffrey Todd

Since 1983 I have had nothing but good experiences with Walter T. Kelley Co. Not too many places you can say that about.


----------



## Bens-Bees

I'm always impressed with how fast they get my orders out to me. Most times it's been on my doorstep the very next day. They've never left me hanging, and when it really counts, I know I can count on them.


----------



## Stonefly7

SGT,

I would agree about the service, delivery time, etc. The point I was making is the web site SUCKS! Even Dadant's site is in poor shape. In todays computer age, I thought they should have put some $$ into their site. Point and click! Example, look at Maxant's site, though they have a smaller selection, you can see and click. It took me 15 minutes just to locate metal ware of a certain type in the Kelly site.

If I pick up the phone, thats great, if I want to research, its in poor shape. I have purchased quite a bit of product from them this year, as in past years. My specialty is not web design, but as a consumer who wants to do business with companies, easy access is paramount for me. Just my two cents! Have a great day.


----------



## BeeCurious

Stonefly7,

If you don't like Kelley's website... you should certainly avoid Miller's 

I don't mind calling... I like the "retro" feel of ordering over the phone.


----------



## alpha6

Well Kelly is not alone...all of the bee supply sites are set up weird...some are better then others but come on people...pay someone to manage your sites and stop using your accountants kid as the web master. :doh:


----------



## Stonefly7

Curious,

Yea, I call most of the time, old school if ya can't tell. The lady at the other end, Maxine? is very helpful and friendly. Just venting! Alpha may be right on that point about webmasters without training.


----------



## hemichuck

I never looked at their web sight but I can tell you they are great people to deal with.I was down there once and needed a jacket and they didnt have one in stock that was my size(xxxxxx-large or something like that)But the girl in customer service walked me over to the seamstress and had me try on a couple of jackets and then she sat there and sewed the hood on it while I waited.Everybody I have dealt with at Kelley keeps bees,so when you ask them a question they seem to be very knowledgable.I'm only about 50 miles away but I like to stop by there when I get a chance.I have done business with Dadent too(also about 50 miles away)so I'm not knocking those guys but Kelley company just has kind of a down home feel about them that I like.


----------



## magnet-man

I think the best web site is  Mann Lake. It is just like looking at their catalog and you can also search it. Hard to beat.


----------



## beehive

let me start with Water Kelley has extremely fast service. they're just a bone head at times, though. a few weeks ago i made a purchase on sunday night and on monday morning i got the nov. edition of bee culture and saw an ad for 10% off shipping around Thanksgiving, so i contacted them about it. they said TOO BAD. i asked them if there is there anything that could be done, even if it's small and thay said TOO BAD and they were not budging. i'm thinking next to make my purchases elsewhere. But im still willing to let them make things right. most places have a grace period before a sale is known if its purchaced before hand, they would honor it.


----------



## hemichuck

OK,I just got on their web sight and must agree that it not the greatest.The Mann Lake sight is pretty good though.I do most of my business on the phone or face to face with Kelly co.I like to buy local if it makes sense to do that.


----------



## BeeCurious

beehive said:


> let me start with Water Kelley has extremely fast service. they're just a bone head at times, though. a few weeks ago i made a purchase on sunday night and on monday morning i got the nov. edition of bee culture and saw an ad for 10% off shipping around Thanksgiving, so i contacted them about it. they said TOO BAD. i asked them if there is there anything that could be done, even if it's small and thay said TOO BAD and they were not budging. i'm thinking next to make my purchases elsewhere. But im still willing to let them make things right. most places have a grace period before a sale is known if its purchaced before hand, they would honor it.


 
*Kelley is offering free shipping* to certain zones and a discount on shipping beyond those zones *on orders phoned in on November 23, 24, and 25th*.


----------



## magnet-man

It always pays to read the fine print.


----------



## Bsupplier

Dear Beehive,
I have to disagree with you about us being boneheads. (Beeheads maybe). Let us look at this from the facts. You placed your order with us on Sunday night the 25th of October. Your order was processed and shipped the next morning. Your order was delivered to you on 29th of October at 10:00 am. Your total shipping charges were $65.38. You live in zone 5 and would have recieved a shipping discount of $6.54 had you ordered almost a month later. You contacted us on the 28th of October stating a unique circumstance. Sales are advertised and announced on certain dates and for certain reasons. This is also the first time we have offered a sale like this. Beehive, if we refunded your $6.54 we would have to do the same for hundreds of our other customers. We appreciate your business as we appreciate the business from all of our customers. Honoring a discount from a sale that wont occur for almost another month is not a reasonable thing to do. We would hate to lose you as a customer but a refund is out of the question. I hope a quality product at a fair price with good customer service is enough to keep you as our customer.
Thank You,
Walter T. Kelley Co.


----------



## StevenG

I'm glad to see the vendors, some of them at least, pay attention to this forum. Personally I don't see any fault here with Kelley. In my opinion they don't have anything to "make right." I've spent a great deal of money with them, as well as Dadant's, and to a much lesser degree with Brushy Mountain, Mann Lake, B&B, and Betterbee. While I have my preferences, I'll not mention them here. I've been satisfied with all of them.

I do hope Kelley has great success with this promotion later this month. Then maybe they'll do it again next year! :applause: I'm saving up my money! 
Regards,
Steven


----------



## JonEdangerousli

beehive said:


> let me start with Water Kelley has extremely fast service. they're just a bone head at times, though. a few weeks ago i made a purchase on sunday night and on monday morning i got the nov. edition of bee culture and saw an ad for 10% off shipping around Thanksgiving, so i contacted them about it. they said TOO BAD. i asked them if there is there anything that could be done, even if it's small and thay said TOO BAD and they were not budging. i'm thinking next to make my purchases elsewhere. But im still willing to let them make things right. most places have a grace period before a sale is known if its purchaced before hand, they would honor it.


$6.54. Really? You're complaining about $6.54? Seriously??


----------



## jdnetone

Walter T. Kelly has all ways been a very good at customer service and has all ways taken care of my needs. I picked up some items this weekend for the first time and I will say a lot of businesses could learn from them about customer service. Keep up the good work I will be back!

James


----------



## kopeck

They're my favorite of the bunch. They're web site is archaic, but it's better then some of the others I've tried.

When I started I had a pile of stuff that my Grandfather/Uncle used and it was all Walter Kelley. I just kept up the tradition and still get a chuckle that some of the products still use the same numbers they did almost 30 years ago...

K


----------



## StevenG

30 years ago? You're such a child! :lpf:

Try 42 years ago! Their electric immersion heater #234S sells now for $79.95 Same number, same item, p. 704 1967 issue of "Gleanings in Bee Culture" sold for $14.00.

How about 61 years ago? :lpf: And their double boiler! Current catalogue number 202- 40 gallon double boiler sells for $475.50. on p. 645 of the July 1948 issue of "Modern Beekeeping", same catalogue number, sold for $25! Probably stainless steel now, galvanized back then. 
:applause:
Steven


----------



## Bsupplier

From our 1939 catalog the same double boiler sells for $15.00!


----------



## DRUR

Bsupplier said:


> I hope a quality product at a fair price with good customer service is enough to keep you as our customer.Thank You,
> Walter T. Kelley Co.


Dear Bsupplier:
The quality of your product and your service matter to me. I have done business with Kelley during late 70s through the mid 80s (when I quit beekeeping for a while), and again this year in getting back into beekeeping. I have always found Kelley to have quality products, reasonable prices, excellent customer service, and neighborly conversation. Doing business with you was like doing business with a faithful next door neighbor. I appreciate how you shopped around for the cheapest freight on my order, even though I am here in Texas. I personally don't care much for your website either, but the longevity of your business, the employees and the quality and price of your product sure out weighs that one issue. I shop around because its the frugal and American thing to do, but if the prices are even relatively in order I will do business with an all American company, any day, anytime. Thanks for being there when I needed you, and I intend to give you the first shot at my business in the future.

Kindest Regards 
Danny Unger


----------



## Bsupplier

Danny,
Thank You for the kind words. Customer service really is a top priority here. Is it mandated from management? Well yes it is, but also, most of the employees are genuinley concerned that our customers leave here with a good product and a good experience. Occasionally you may catch one of us having a bad day but we try to minimize telegraphing that to our customers. The majority of us keep bees and love it. We want our customers to love it as much as we do. Some of our employess have been here 40 plus years and some have started within the last month. We currently help to support 64 American families through the manufacture and distribution of our products.
We realize our website is lacking and we are currently working on a new template. We think the current one is better than the old but we understand the need for improvement. There will be drop downs and search features you dont see now. The new catalog will also be more user friendly this year. Believe me, we want it to be as easy as possible for you guys to buy from us.
We also understand the tradition we need to uphold. This coming year will be our 86th and that in itself I believe is a huge milestone.
Thanks again to all of our loyal customers, we appreciate all of your input as to how we can change for the better.
Thank You,
Walter T. Kelley Co.


----------



## TwT

Kelly has the best foundation I think, I dont buy no other foundation, reminds me I need to order mine now before the rush starts in Jan-Feb.


----------



## Tom G. Laury

Once I was looking for a part for an ancient ( antique ) extractor. Kelly co. machine shop made it from scratch. They knew from history what I needed.


----------



## DRUR

Tom G. Laury said:


> Once I was looking for a part for an ancient ( antique ) extractor. Kelly co. machine shop made it from scratch. They knew from history what I needed.


Yes, Now that's what I'm talking about. You don't get that type of service from a throw away Chinese product. No more outsourcing of American jobs, keep our money at home where it belongs.


----------



## kopeck

StevenG said:


> 30 years ago? You're such a child! :lpf:
> 
> Try 42 years ago! Their electric immersion heater #234S sells now for $79.95 Same number, same item, p. 704 1967 issue of "Gleanings in Bee Culture" sold for $14.00.
> 
> How about 61 years ago? :lpf: And their double boiler! Current catalogue number 202- 40 gallon double boiler sells for $475.50. on p. 645 of the July 1948 issue of "Modern Beekeeping", same catalogue number, sold for $25! Probably stainless steel now, galvanized back then.
> :applause:
> Steven



Well...yes. 

I've only got so much data to work with, none the less it looks like product numbers go way back, how many companies still do that?

K


----------



## Radical Bee

Of the beekeeping suppliers i have dealt with W.T.Kelly has given the best service. Any company that rectifies an error by paying the return and new postage on 200 sheets of foundation is always going to get consideration for my business.

a hearty thumbs up


----------



## copper287

I ordered from kelley today and i live close enough for it to be free shipping.This only last nov.23,24,25.Saved me alot of money.copper287


----------



## alpha6

Anyone else find the website has been down for a couple of days? I just get a blank page when I try and access their web site. :scratch:


----------



## StevenG

I simply called them this morning, and ordered a (small) boatload of stuff!
I like thumbing thru paper catalogues... :thumbsup:


----------



## BoBn

alpha6 said:


> Anyone else find the website has been down


http://Kelleybees.com has never worked for me. All I get is blank page.

Try this link:
https://products.kelleybees.com/wtkprod/

They are probably losing some sales because of web page flaws.
Maybe the 1st link has some wonky javascript?


----------



## JonEdangerousli

I'd like to buy from Kelley, but their website is pretty much useless.


----------



## Bsupplier

www.kelleybees.com
I just opened it and it's working fine.


----------



## JonEdangerousli

Oh, it appears to be working as designed. In 1997...


----------



## Bsupplier

If you follow the link above it should take you to the site that was installed last summer.


----------



## paul.h

The instructer for the beekeeping 101 class said new catalogs would be coming out in a couple of weeks. They are going to have a bunch of new stuff.


----------



## JonEdangerousli

Bsupplier said:


> ...last summer.


I really didn't want to start a hate-fest for the website, but I'd be embarrassed to say that was developed in the last year or two. I must admit that I don't remember the site prior to that, and maybe it's an order of magnitude better than it was. That being said on a usability scale of 1-100, with 1 being totally unusable (site not found error), and 100 being the most user friendly website ever designed (it anticipates what I want it to do next) I'd have to give it about a 25.


----------



## Bsupplier

Jon,
When you open the site do you see bees walking around?


----------



## JonEdangerousli

Yes. The javascript appears to be functioning normally.


----------



## JonEdangerousli

If you're doing the development in house, here's a good Christmas gift for the designer/developer/web master:

http://www.amazon.com/Dont-Make-Me-...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1259011365&sr=8-1


----------



## alpha6

BoBn said:


> http://Kelleybees.com has never worked for me. All I get is blank page.
> 
> Try this link:
> https://products.kelleybees.com/wtkprod/
> 
> They are probably losing some sales because of web page flaws.
> Maybe the 1st link has some wonky javascript?


The second link did work for me. Kelly people, the first link still does not work and that is the one you get when using the google search. I use Firefox and not IE and that could be the problem, but I don't know many people that actually use IE anymore. You may want to check it again.


----------



## Myron Denny

The second link worked for me too, I have dial-up but it did take considerable time.

While I have your attention what is your foundation cell size?
Is your brood and surplus foundation the same cell size?
How do you measure cell size?
If this is the wrong forum for this question tell me where you are going to post the answer. Myron Denny


----------



## Bsupplier

Hi Myron,
I just used a micrometer to double check and the inside measure of the cell mic's at 4.762, brood and super are the same size.
Our 7/11 foundation is larger than worker and smaller than drone.
Hope this helps.
Walter T. Kelley Co.


----------



## StevenG

When I placed my order yesterday, I talked with the lady about their web site and catalogue. She assured me they were aware of the problems with both, and are working to make the web site much more user friendly. The new catalogue should be out soon. It too is supposed to be easier to use. Personally I found the index nearly useless... I am so glad they pay attention to our constructive criticism. I always like to see a consumer-oriented business succeed!


----------



## Myron Denny

BSupplier,
Barry says the following is the proper way to measure cell size:

And since it's very difficult to measure just one cell, measure across 10 cells. It should be 49 mm, or 4.9 cm.
Actually, when measuring cells, you measure from point to same point. That is, if you start with the inside wall, you measure to the next inside wall. 

Would you mind checking the measurement again? I think 4.9 is as small as my mind will let me go!


----------



## Bsupplier

Myron,
I will be happy to do as you request but it wont happen before Monday. Im buried in the new catalog.
Walter T. Kelley


----------



## copper287

That was fast!!!Put in order nov.23 at about 9:00am and order came today nov.24 at noon.Never had that kinda service. Thanks!!


----------



## Bsupplier

Myron Denny said:


> BSupplier,
> Barry says the following is the proper way to measure cell size:
> 
> And since it's very difficult to measure just one cell, measure across 10 cells. It should be 49 mm, or 4.9 cm.
> Actually, when measuring cells, you measure from point to same point. That is, if you start with the inside wall, you measure to the next inside wall.
> 
> Would you mind checking the measurement again? I think 4.9 is as small as my mind will let me go!


Hi Myron,
When I measure across 10 cells I come up with 52 mm. However I still think for an accurate measure you need to measure 1 cell because you need to account for the wall thickness. Again when I measure 1 cell from inside wall to inside wall it measures 4.762 mm.
Thanks,
Walter T. Kelley Co.


----------



## Michael Bush

Across ten cells counting the wall is the method used. The cell walls are ignored when the bees are building them. When they are too thick, such as in PermaComb or Honey Super Cell, you need to allow for a the difference between a standard cell wall and the plastic one, but otherwise the cell wall is ignored. A 4.9mm cell, in other words, is actually 4.8 inside diameter when the bees build the wall. The wall thickness on the wax sheet is irrelevant as the bees will thin it out when the work it.


----------

