# Killing weeds around hive



## OrionBee (May 12, 2010)

I hope this is in the correct category. I have been using this method of weed control around my hives for quite a while. It is simple and to my knowledge, has no adverse affect to the bees.

1 pound of Salt
1 gallon of Vinegar
2 squirts of dish washing liquid
4 Tablespoons of lemon juice
1 Spray bottle.

Stir salt in just enough HOT water to dissolve it. Add rest of ingredients after the salt is dissolved or the salt WILL clog your sprayer. The dish washing liquid will allow the mixture to stick to the plants. This, like all herbicides, should be applied when rain is not in the forecast. This will kill every plant that it touches. Be careful where you spray it.

do not spray on your lawn as it will kill the grass as well.


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## spieker (Jun 26, 2009)

My concern about recipes that include salt is that too much salt will make the ground unsuitable for future plant growth.


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## mike haney (Feb 9, 2007)

roundup is safe, effective, and NON-PERMANENT as opposed to "salting the earth"


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## bigbearomaha (Sep 3, 2009)

safest method I have seen and use myself is the old" bend over and pull it out of the ground with my hands" method.

Not only is it environmentally friendly, it also is a great source of physical activity.

Big Bear


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## MeriB (Mar 15, 2010)

Even better, when I try to weed, my Corgi Liza grabs them and pulls them out for me! Occasionally she will do it on her own right next to where I am working.


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## Omie (Nov 10, 2009)

bigbearomaha said:


> safest method I have seen and use myself is the old" bend over and pull it out of the ground with my hands" method.
> Not only is it environmentally friendly, it also is a great source of physical activity.
> Big Bear


What a concept! :thumbsup:


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## peacekeeperapiaries (Jun 23, 2009)

mike haney said:


> roundup is safe, effective, and NON-PERMANENT as opposed to "salting the earth"



agreed, thats what we use with great success. :thumbsup:


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## Countryboy (Feb 15, 2009)

Some plants, like asparagus love salt. When we make homemade ice cream, we dump the salty ice water on the asparagus patch. The asparagus likes it and it helps to temporarily retard weed growth.

Potash is a common fertilizer. It is a salt. If you put it on too thick, it will burn the plants. This is temporary though. As the salt level dissipates, plants come back.

Around here in oil well country, farmers can pay for a $100 annual permit to apply the brine water from their wells onto drives. (Some farmers even dilute the brine water with regular water, and then spray it on their fields.) As soon as the salt level dissipates, grass comes back greener than ever.

Of course, it may help that we have acidic soils here, and acidic rain. Salt ends up being a neutralizer.


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## cottonhill (Jun 1, 2010)

Roundup may be effective, but it's not safe, and definitely not biological.


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## peacekeeperapiaries (Jun 23, 2009)

Roundup is very safe, and a lot of people use it. Use the search function and read for yourself.


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## Sam-Smith (Jul 26, 2009)

cottonhill said:


> Roundup may be effective, but it's not safe, and definitely not biological.


True, idk why you would want to kill weeds around the hives anyway, some people just wack them down once a year, or use top entrances.


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## Hambone (Mar 17, 2008)

OrionBee said:


> I hope this is in the correct category. I have been using this method of weed control around my hives for quite a while. It is simple and to my knowledge, has no adverse affect to the bees.
> 
> 1 pound of Salt
> 1 gallon of Vinegar
> ...


You can skip the other stuff and just use vinegar and the dishsoap and it will work the same. Use the 9% vinegar. 5% is a little weak and the 20% is way over priced. 

They only reason I use vinegar over roundup is 9% vinegar is $2.00 a gallon.


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## OrionBee (May 12, 2010)

Sam-Smith said:


> True, idk why you would want to kill weeds around the hives anyway, some people just wack them down once a year, or use top entrances.


The only reason that I use this around a certain yard is the amount of Johnson grass that continuously grows there. I have used round up (at concentrations over manufacture rating) to try to kill this stuff. This is the only thing that seemed to work. I sprayed with this last year, and so far (knock on wood) the Johnson grass has not grown this year. it only took two applications to get the job done versus the five that I tried with traditional roundup. I do not guarantee results as there are different strains of this particular weed.

Maybe using the 9% vinegar would be better and not using the salt, but after a while, the salt will break down and grass will grow there once again. In previous years, grass has grown back where weeds once existed. Only time will tell, (as some plants have a way of delaying regrowth or the seeds can remain dormant for a number of years before germinating (i.e. kookaburra which took numerous years to get rid, and the reason I stopped buying hay from that particular farmer))

This was only meant for those that wanted to use something a little bit more organic (except with dish washing soap -- which you could substitute pure lye soap made from wood ash and pig fat) then roundup.


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## clintonbemrose (Oct 23, 2001)

I now use a weed wacker around my hives. The reason is that I want the grass/clover/weeds to grow. The reason is it helps the hives keep cool. The dark ground seems to colect heat from the sun where the grass/clover/weeds will use the sun and not reflect the heat into the hive. I have proven this with thermomiters in the hives. Also the bees seem happier in the hives over grass. I weed wack every 2 weeks or before when needed.

Clint


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## Jeffrey Todd (Mar 17, 2006)

I prefer putting down a barrier, like used cardboard boxes, to keep weeds down. Something more aesthetically pleasing could be used where it is called for.


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## David0504 (Jan 18, 2009)

I spread old pieces of carpet around my hives to keep the weeds down. It also keep dirt from splattering onto the hives when it rains.


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## peacekeeperapiaries (Jun 23, 2009)

Sam-Smith said:


> True, idk why you would want to kill weeds around the hives anyway, some people just wack them down once a year, or use top entrances.


Hmm well here in FL snakes are a big concern specially poisonous ones they love to lay under my pallets, and with all the grass and weeds in the way I can't see the pallets to insert the loader forks in them to place them on the truck. I also like to be able to see my entrances clearly (whats comin and going) prevents me from havin to open every one every time. Wading through tall grass and weeds in a 40 hive beeyard is not very efficient and I think the grass and weeds as thick as they grow here will not only swallow my hives but prevent proper ventialtion through the sbb.

I round up twice a year in each yard, takes me about 5 minutes per yard and resolves all the weed problems.


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## ridger12 (May 21, 2009)

I googled "roundup dangers". Yikes, and to think you guys almost had me talked into trying it out. 
http://www.walterreeves.com/tools_chemicals/article.phtml?cat=22&id=889
http://www.organicconsumers.org/monsanto/roundup.cfm


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## wolfpenfarm (Jan 13, 2009)

Yep. thats why i don't use pesticides. Nothing beats a weedwhacker or a good ole fashioned lawn mower.

one other suggestion. ever noticed that grass doesn't grow under oak trees or black walnut trees. Thats because of the tannic acid in them. Might think about using something like tannic acid. ITs easy to get if you have acorns. Just about 5 pounds of acrons in a pot of water and boil them. Then strain off the liquid, put it in a sprayer and spray the grass. shrug. Then boil the acorns again, with new water a couple times more and then use the nut meats in muffins. Very delicious.


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## ridger12 (May 21, 2009)

I make my kids acorn pancakes in the fall from white oak acorns. I always threw out the water that leached the tannins. Now I have a good use for it! Thanks!


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## mrspock (Feb 1, 2010)

mike haney said:


> roundup is safe, effective, and NON-PERMANENT as opposed to "salting the earth"


You should share your knowlege of Roundup's safety with Monsanto. They appear to be misinformed, and have even put the following on the label:



> Roundup: Label - Keep out of reach of children, harmful if swallowed, avoid contact with eyes or prolonged contact with skin. Remove clothing if contaminated. Spray solutions of this product should be mixed, stored and applied only in stainless steel, aluminum, fiberglass, plastic and plastic-lined steel containers. This product or spray solutions of this product react with such containers and tanks to produce hydrogen gas that may form a highly combustible gas mixture. This gas mixture could flash or explode, causing serious personal injury, if ignited by open flame, spark, welder’s torch, lighted cigarette or other ignition source. Avoid direct applications to any body of water. Do not contaminate water by disposal of waste or cleaning of equipment. Avoid contamination of seed, feed, and foodstuffs. Soak up a small amounts of spill with absorbent clay. Do not reuse container for any other purpose.


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## mrspock (Feb 1, 2010)

peacekeeperapiaries said:


> Roundup is very safe, and a lot of people use it.


Wow.

Just Wow.


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## wolfpenfarm (Jan 13, 2009)

ridger12 said:


> I make my kids acorn pancakes in the fall from white oak acorns. I always threw out the water that leached the tannins. Now I have a good use for it! Thanks!


You can sell the tannic acids too. That is one of the ways the Old Order Mennonites make some money.


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## mrspock (Feb 1, 2010)

Hambone said:


> They only reason I use vinegar over roundup is 9% vinegar is $2.00 a gallon.


I typically don't weed. Weeding is a fools treadmill. Everytime a plant gets pulled, weed seeds are uncovered, and take advantage of the newly bared soil. 

Personally, I think a great deal of weed-fear is based on unrealistic concerns created by chemical company propaganda. Weeds are just plants. If they ain't poisonous or prickly, what's the problem?


Nonethless, my community garden requires us to weed around our bed. My strategy is as follows:

1) Direct application of vinegar to kill existing dandelions.

2) Followup application of Corn Gluten meal to suppress further germination.


Personally, I like danelions, as they are pretty, edible, and provide early spring forage for bees. A shame to kill them.


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## peacekeeperapiaries (Jun 23, 2009)

mrspock said:


> Your contributions are valued, but a response of "It's safe, everyone does it" seems puerile.


Is that what I said??? I believe I posted "its safe and a lot of people use it". Both true statements.. I DO believe its safe (my opinion), and A LOT of people use it. I did not imply "everyone does". Do you paint your hive bodies??? You might read the warnings and MSDS on latex paint and stains... COULD BE some pretty bad stuff, but it does not seem to effect the bees much does it? and I bet you apply it to your hives. We have seen a few posts about bees drinking from swimming pools...ever read the warnings and MSDS on chlorine bleach??? yet the bees love it and billions of people swim in it every summer with no ill effect... according to labels and warnings there are a lot of nasty chemicals out there MRSPOCK...but properly applied and used they are not harmful or fatal to bees or humans.


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## mrspock (Feb 1, 2010)

peacekeeperapiaries said:


> Do you paint your hive bodies??? You might read the warnings and MSDS on latex paint and stains... COULD BE some pretty bad stuff, but it does not seem to effect the bees much does it? and I bet you apply it to your hives.


I don't paint my hives, for a variety of reasons. 

More than anything, I am very conservative in the use of chemicals around the garden - Which is why I'm reading and posting in a "Biological Beekeeping" forum.


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## LSBees (Sep 24, 2009)

If you like GM foods and Monsanto keep using Round-up, its not safe and they are taking over and destroying the world!


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## dcross (Jan 20, 2003)

wolfpenfarm said:


> ever noticed that grass doesn't grow under oak trees or black walnut trees. Thats because of the tannic acid in them.


Black walnuts have juglone, not sure if they have tannins: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juglone


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## mrspock (Feb 1, 2010)

wolfpenfarm said:


> Yep. thats why i don't use pesticides. Nothing beats a weedwhacker or a good ole fashioned lawn mower.
> 
> one other suggestion. ever noticed that grass doesn't grow under oak trees or black walnut trees.


Black walnuts are Allellopathic, meaning their roots exude substances that inhibit the growth of other nearby plants. 

I suspect that you'd actually have to plant a black walnut tree to get this effect. If it was as easy as extracting this substance and applying it, it would already be available in stores.


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## 123456789 (May 24, 2009)

mrspock said:


> You should share your knowlege of Roundup's safety with Monsanto. They appear to be misinformed, and have even put the following on the label:


 You're supposed to syray it on weeds, not drink it. I'm sure manure would carry a similar label.


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## Countryboy (Feb 15, 2009)

_I typically don't weed. Weeding is a fools treadmill. Everytime a plant gets pulled, weed seeds are uncovered, and take advantage of the newly bared soil.

If they ain't poisonous or prickly, what's the problem?_

Weeds compete for water, nutrients, and sunlight, and choke out the crop plants you want to grow uninhibited.

It is my understanding that dirt has a seven year 'seed bank'. If you kill every weed in a field for 7 years before it can go to seed, you will have exhausted all the ungerminated weed seeds. Weed control becomes much easier once you have a severely depleted weed seed bank in the ground.

When it comes to weeds around hives, weeds are a physical barrier that impedes the ability of the bees to freely enter and leave the hive. It acts like an entrance reducer of sorts. I heard a commercial beekeeper say that if you leave an entrance reducer on a production hive during the nectar flow, you lose 1/2 pound of honey production a day.


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## Bens-Bees (Sep 18, 2008)

> You're supposed to syray it on weeds, not drink it.


If you're spraying it, then you're eating it and drinking it along with your bees.

As for killing weeds without toxins, boiling water works well and kills most of the seeds that would spring up to take the place of the current weeds.


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## 123456789 (May 24, 2009)

Bens-Bees said:


> If you're spraying it, then you're eating it and drinking it along with your bees.
> 
> As for killing weeds without toxins, boiling water works well and kills most of the seeds that would spring up to take the place of the current weeds.


If the bees and I are eating and drinking it as you say, then that's proof that it's harmless. Although I don't think your statement was factual.


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## buzzbuzz (Oct 20, 2009)

Another option is a propane weeder. 

http://www.johnnyseeds.com/p-6000-red-dragon-backpack-flame-weeder.aspx 

Just don't set the hives on fire.


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## certaut (Apr 15, 2010)

Monsanto said agent orange was safe also, 
I personally just walk my dogs around the hives, dog manure not only keeps the weeds down but also repels tree rats, rabbits, deer, and people without mud boots


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## mrspock (Feb 1, 2010)

Countryboy said:


> Weeds compete for water, nutrients, and sunlight, and choke out the crop plants you want to grow uninhibited.


While weeds do use water, they also help retain it in the soil. Weeds do use some nutrients, but they also draw many from deeper than other plants can get to. The nutrients they do use are eventually returned to the soil as organic matter, which fertilizez, retains water, and aerates the soil.

As for choking out... This is inevitable in a sparse annual monoculture setting, but can be managed in a polyculture garden, particularly a perennial one.

There are options, and there are considerations. It's not the simple narrative of eternal war that keeps chemical companies rich.




Countryboy said:


> It is my understanding that dirt has a seven year 'seed bank'. If you kill every weed in a field for 7 years before it can go to seed, you will have exhausted all the ungerminated weed seeds. Weed control becomes much easier once you have a severely depleted weed seed bank in the ground.


There is the saying: "One year of seed means 7 years of weed". I doubt if this is that simple, given the huge variation in seed viability over time. Some seeds will last 7 minutes, and some will last 70 years. Given that most of my city and region is heavily populated by "weeds", I do not see that value in expending the effort to keep one little space a free zone.. and particularly not for 7 years. The cost of such an effort outweighs any benefit.




Countryboy said:


> When it comes to weeds around hives, weeds are a physical barrier that impedes the ability of the bees to freely enter and leave the hive. It acts like an entrance reducer of sorts. I heard a commercial beekeeper say that if you leave an entrance reducer on a production hive during the nectar flow, you lose 1/2 pound of honey production a day.



Absolutely! I am wholeheartedly in agreement. There's many situations where weeds are undesireable, and we sholdn't hesitate to remove them. I also prefer to aforementioned torch. What I am against is weed-o-phobia, and the endless compulsion to destroy anything in one's garden that one didn't plant oneself.

In the case of a beehive the answer is easy to me. Let them grow until they block, then yank. Much less energy than constant weeding, and the growing plants will mitigate the growth of other weeds. 

Personally, I discourage wheat, bluegrass, and stinkweed, and anything prickly. Meanwhile, I tolerate a vast array of weeds whose functions I recognize and appreciate, and play a role in my garden.


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

Any of you hear of Stihl? Works in all weather and is environmentally friendly. No chemicals either. Cheap to use. No brewing needed! An answer to all life's weed issues. :lpf:

Old gardening carpet works too. 

Also, what do you think is sprayed around highline wires, used by many growers, is used on a lot of things we eat - ROUNDUPinch:


Kingfisher


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## bigbearomaha (Sep 3, 2009)

yet another alternative for weed maintenance without chemicals. Buy a goat.

Big Bear


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

we do that too.


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## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

Nothing better than goats jumping up and down on top of the hives making them mean. I prefer cattle that graze around the hives and not jump on them.


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## bigbearomaha (Sep 3, 2009)

you must have some hyper goats. my cousin had goats for years, none jumped on anything, though they would make a tush a target now and then.

Big Bear


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## Omie (Nov 10, 2009)

Sheep.


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## BigDru (Aug 4, 2009)

I live in a desert. I find that if I keep water from around my hives the weeds tend not to grow. Otherwise I use grass clipper in the spring. As for using round up, I think its a personal preferance just as using vinigar, boiling water, weed burner. I think you find what works best for you and us it.


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## Beekeeper's hubby (Jun 5, 2009)

We've had good luck laying out 6 MM black plastic 10 ft wide, then covering it with wood chips. Hives are then setup in the middle.


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