# Dadant's 4.9 plastic



## Kurt Bower (Aug 28, 2002)

I know that 4.9 plastic foundation is available for deeps. 
Does anyone know if plastic 4.9 is being manufactured for mediums?

Thanks, Kurt


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## fat/beeman (Aug 23, 2002)

Kurt
you can cut the wax into strips thats what I do and if you got good honey flow or feed then use full sheets they will drawmostly good cells==most time=lol
Don


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I know that 4.9 plastic foundation is available for deeps. 
Does anyone know if plastic 4.9 is being manufactured for mediums?

No, it's not available in mediums and neither is the wax. For either the wax or the plastic you can cut the deep foundation down and use the extra strip for starters or throw away the extra strip, or just cut starters. Or you can cut the deep foundation in half (deep foundation is 8 3/8"). Since part of the foundation goes in the slot in the bottom and since medium foundation is 5 3/8" and half of a deep is 4 3/16" that leaves a gap at the bottom of about an inch for the bees to do what they want. If it's the plastic and you put the foudation to the top and use split pins on the sides it won't go anywhere. I'm using the deep 4.9 plastic this way in Dadant Deeps with a 2" gap at the bottom.


For the wax, you can make a cutting jig by using a piece of wood for the base with 1 bys for three sides. One would be the stop to slide the foundation against and the two sides would have a saw cut in them for the knife. A serrated knife or a pizza cutter or a round cloth cutter (from the fabric store) will cut the wax pretty well.

The plastic cuts fine just scoring with a utility knife and breaking it.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

In a related topic Bjorn says that he can mail wax to Dadant and have it worked into 4.9mm foundation and wired. I would assume they could also do this in medium depth instead of deep, but you would have to ask Dadant.
http://www.beesource.com/ubb/Forum13/HTML/000106.html


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

They only make the 4.9 in wax for the brood (8 1/2 size) without wire. They do have it in plastic for the medium supers.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>They do have it in plastic for the medium supers.

Bjorn, are you saying they make medium 4.9 plastic?


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

MB,
I made a mistake. Sorry. They do not have it in medium.
PS. Wouldn't it be great if a thousand people called up and asked for it. Wonder if it would speed up the production of it.


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## Kurt Bower (Aug 28, 2002)

Thanks everyone for all the information. From some of the responses I would guess that there is a desire from more people than just me to acquire medium plastic foundation in 4.9. 
Is anyone aware if Dadant or others are considering this or is it a customer driven process. People that are interested need to speak up and request the product?

Kurt


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

My guess is that the market is so small they figure the few of us that want it can cut it down. If the 4.9mm catches on, it will be another matter.


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## WineMan (May 16, 2003)

I bought some of the 4.9 foundation but traded it away cuz I'm not thrilled with the idea of making frames. I have never followed the cell size forum closely so I am wondering if anyone in the states is making a plastic one piece frame like a pierco but in 4.9?


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## clintonbemrose (Oct 23, 2001)

I bought some of the 4.9 foundation but traded it away cuz I'm not thrilled with the idea of making frames. I have never followed the cell size forum closely so I am wondering if anyone in the states is making a plastic one piece frame like a pierco but in 4.9?
Answer:
Not that I have found. I have only used the wax foundation and had to wire the frames and now have 253 hives using 4.9 but only have 50 hives fully regressed. the going seems to go very slow and sometimes the bees will not pull the foundation right so I end up culling a lot of comb and buying more 4.9 foundation. Perma comb sounds like the thing to use but most are rewaxing it to make it 4.9mm.
John Sheets or MB probably are the people to talk to about this if you are interested.
Clint 
Clint

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Clinton Bemrose
just South of Lansing Michigan


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I bought some of the 4.9 foundation but traded it away cuz I'm not thrilled with the idea of making frames. I have never followed the cell size forum closely so I am wondering if anyone in the states is making a plastic one piece frame like a pierco but in 4.9? 

I'm waxing PermaComb to get 4.95mm cells. (allowing for cell wall thickness on standard comb and on PermaComb). It is a lot of work and I need to find a simple system that is not so time consuming and messy. If I could, maybe there would be a market for it, but considering the work invovled I'd have to ask quite a bit for it and I'm not sure I'd pay that much if I didn't know how much work it was.







By the time I buy PermaComb, pay the shipping to me, wax coat it and pay the shipping to the consumer it would have to go for at least $10 a comb for it to be worth it to me.

If you don't like making frames, I don't think you'll like dipping PermaComb.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I bought some of the 4.9 foundation but traded it away cuz I'm not thrilled with the idea of making frames. I have never followed the cell size forum closely so I am wondering if anyone in the states is making a plastic one piece frame like a pierco but in 4.9? 

I guess I should have directly answered this question.

Last I heard no one is making a one piece frame in 4.9. The Pierco deeps are 5.25mm and the mediums are 5.35mm. The PermaComb (which is not foundation but fully "drawn" comb) is the equivilant of 5.1mm. That is allowing for the cell wall. Allowing for the cell wall is not appropriate in any kind of foundation because the bees will build the wall. But in PermaComb the entire wall is already there and is slightly thicker than the bees build it. Also, wax coating foundation will not give you smaller cells, for that same reason. The foundation is only a wall to start from and will be built the thickness that bees build a wall (about 0.1mm) where the PermaComb already has a wall and adding wax to it will make the inside cell smaller.

I'm afraid any small cell work is going to require a lot of effort on your part and is probably not worth it if you don't want to put a lot of work into it. The smallest one piece thing available is PermaComb at about 5.1mm and is already drawn and the bees really do well on it. There is a forum topic under Equipment on PermaComb if you want to read about everyones experiences with it. But 5.1mm is not small enough to adequately solve the mite problems.


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## WineMan (May 16, 2003)

After reading this and chatting with Clayton last night, I think it might be best to pass on small cell. Thanks for your thoughts.


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