# Any Honey-Super-Cell reviews yet?



## Michael Bush

They look like they are the same material and quality as the PermaComb. Very similar looking except that they include the spacer, they are deeps, and they are slightly smaller cells.

I put them in untreated in any way to see what would happen and haven't seen any progress yet, but then I haven't been watching closely. If they don't accept it straight I will try spraying with syrup and then if that doesn't go well I'll try rubbing a bar of wax on the surface of the mouths of the cells.

They are 4.9mm inside diameter, which makes them slightly bigger than I would like but still nicely small. I would prefer 4.8mm inside diameter and would accept 4.7mm inside diameter.

If it's smaller than 4.6mm I'm not sure how the bees will accept it.

Now if they would just make them in 4.8mm inside diameter, medium depth and 1 1/4" spacing...


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## peggjam

I bought one case of them and placed them on the hives last week. I haven't been back to see how they are doing yet. I also had a swarm call, and placed a swarm on some, but again haven't checked to see how they are doing yet. They are quite heavey, and look to be well made, and I hope will last a long time, at the price paid for them, they should last a long time.


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## peggjam

I went an checked one of the swarms I installed on these frames. The big thing that jumps out is it's really hard to see any of the younger brood in these cells. After being on these frames for two weeks, the queen has laid a fairly decent brood pattern on one of them, from what I can see, which ain't much. The bigger thing is they have filled alot of these frames with nector and pollen, and seem to prefer drawing foundation for the queen to lay in. I had another swarm that left a hive in which I had 3 of these frames in. Not sure if they are the reason, though.


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## Michael Bush

Mine still haven't used them. Maybe this weekend I'll spray them with syrup.


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## BULLSEYE BILL

Well. I put a swarm on four frames of HSC with one frame of honey in PC in the middle last Wednesday. When I checked it this morning there were about a hundred bees in the nuc. They had moved some of the old honey from the PC to the HSC and gathered a little nectar, but sadly, they had flown the coop.

The swarm I installed on five frames os HSC sprayed with HFCS yesterday was on the outside of the box this morning. None inside of the box, they covered the outside and were under it too. It was a massive swarm so I thought that perhaps it was too crowded for them so I got another nuc body and sprayed the five frames of HSC and shook the bees back into the box. Or at least I tried to. It turned into a chinese fire drill and they took flight.

Geez there was a bunch of bees in the air. Earlier I found a tiny swarm on the ground under the Oak tree. I put a two frame nuc next to it so they could walk into it. But the gigantic swarm in the air made them take flight too. Eventully they landed on the limb just over where the tiny one was earlier. Except now it was huge but I had to leave for work so I just set a nuc a few inches under it and hoped for the best.

Before leaving I looked under the nuc box where the large swarm came from and found a small clump of bees balling what I suposed was a queen. So I tossed it into the nearly empty nuc with the hundred bees on HSC.

When I came home the swarm in the tree was gone  but in the redbud tree was an even larger one







on the trunk about twenty foot up  So I set up three scaffolds that would make Darwin proud (except I tied it to the tree). I took one of the styrofome nucs with 3 HSC frames and two frames with wax from cut-outs way up there and started scooping bees off the trunk and into the nuc. I decided that there were way too many bees to fit in the nuc so I quit when I saw that they were fanning leaving a good three pounds on the tree. I took the nuc to the yard and opened it up, I was glad to see that they were not coming out.

I was tending to a cut-out I did this afternoon, a sloppy job of just vacing bees and stuffing comb into a bucket. I am sure that I lost the queen. Eh, no matter. On my way home I stopped and trimmed a tiny hive out of a bush that had two combs about the size of your hand. I had put it in a deep nuc and installed sc medium frames over it and set it next to the homeless and queenless bucket of bees when I noticed swarming again  

I figured they were coming out of the just installed nuc, but no those were staying put. It was the bees that I left in the tree swarming into the nuc with the hundred bees and the balled queen! Wow, go figure!

So, what looked like this morning to be two refused HSC nucs turned out to be two very large and reinstalled swarms. Sometimes things work out no matter what you do.

The first nuc had one framd of honey and four HSC that was not sprayed.

The second one had five frames of HSC that was sprayed with HFCS (perhaps fermented?)

Both swarms left but were possibly overcrowded.

I'm not sold on the HSC yet, but it could be my fault for not giving them enough room.


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## peggjam

Bill

Don't suppose we shouldn't oughta try to install swarms on these here shc frames...do ya? Sounds like you had the same luck I had.


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## BULLSEYE BILL

I dunno yet. I expect that everything I pick up here in the city is ferral, so I would think that they should take right to sc as they came right off of it.

Until I can rule out that the swarms were too big for the box I was trying to put them into, or that the syrup may have been fermented, chasing them out, I can't really make the call yet.

I'm on my way to pick up another swarm that has been setting on a sign for five days, I'll see what they do.


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## magnet-man

Why not put queen excluder material on the hive entrance. Force the girls to stay.


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## BULLSEYE BILL

I have the round entrance discs on all of my nuc boxes I use for pickups. I could easily have restricted them but am not in the habit because it has not been a problem. 

I figure if they won't stay in the box, I need to find out why. So far this year, the only swarms that would not stay were either overcrowded or on HSC, but those on HSC are back in the box, one all by itself, the other needed help.

I picked up a small swarm today and put three HSC in the box sprayed with the majic elixor, (HBH) and a used PC on one side and a medium frame with sc from a cutout on the other. I will watch and see what they do, they were content this evening.


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## Janice Lane

Please keep us updated. I would also like reviews before I decide to order any. Thanks!


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## Michael Bush

I just checked and all the HSC I have is being used by the bees now. It either has honey it in or brood in it. I did crowd them a bit to get them started on it though. I'd say you have the same issues as any plastic. It would probably have gone quicker if I sprayed it with syrup, but I wanted to see what they would do first.

Also, Max Hamby called me today to make sure I understood how to get it accepted. That's pretty good customer service.







He and Dee Lusby have been discussing the cell size issue. In order to get the mold to release the top of the cell has to be larger than the bottom. So the bottoms of the cells are actually 4.8mm while the mouth is 4.9mm. That would average out to 4.85mm i.d. which would be the equivelant to 4.95mm. That should be sufficient for varroa control. Maybe, if I get time, (not likely this time of year) I'll try to get a frame of it in my observation hive so I can time the capping and emergence times.


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## peggjam

Peggy and I took some pics of one of the swarms we put supercell frames in. I had some undrawen frames of foundation in this hive as well, and took some for comparision. Enjoy.


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## Sundance

Very encouraging......... I have yet
to introduce them. Next week I plan on
slapping them into the brood nests on 
a bunch of colonies.


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## jamiev

where can i get some of these?


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## TwT

http://www.honeysupercell.com/sblog/


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## jamiev

can you get it in mediums? I did not notice mediums available on the site


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## BULLSEYE BILL

>can you get it in mediums?

For now you will have to take them to a table saw and make your own.


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## Janice Lane

I moved the brood box above a box full of HSC with a queen excluder. I sprayed the frames with sugar syrup and it has a super that's about half full. I will check back in a week to see if there's any progress.


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## BULLSEYE BILL

Added a deep nuc box a week or so ago with three HSC and two w/w on the outsides. Today the HSC had the queen laying on it with capped brood, capped honey, eggs, and larve.

It's working well for me so far.


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## Michael Bush

>can you get it in mediums? I did not notice mediums available on the site

Medium frames/foundation are available (in drone sized cells of 6.0mm with fake eggs in the bottom)

But not the fully drawn small cell.


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## CWBees

I ordered 20 frames of the HSC frames. Any ideas where to put them?

I have 4 hives and 2 nucs of Russians and one hive of Carniolans. (Probably with a little Russian since the queen prob. mated with some Russian drones).

I would like to introduce them to the Carniolans. The hive has 2 deeps currently.


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## Michael Bush

>I ordered 20 frames of the HSC frames. Any ideas where to put them?

I'd spray them with syrup (preferably with Honey Bee Healthy in the syrup) and feed three of them into each of the two brood boxes preferably in the middle of the brood.


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## jamiev

When converting to mediums, would a wood bottom bar be added to the cut polypropolene frame sides? I assume the cut frame would need to be reinforced somehow? I would like to get some for honey as my bees are building comb very slowly right now.


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## Sundance

IMO I wouldn't cut these down for honey use.
Permacomb is more appropriate for that and
cleaper too. It comes only in mediums.


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## peggjam

Max called yesterday, and we had a long talk about these frames, and whether they are working as well as I could hope for. Other than initial problems with introduction, the queens seem to take to them well after the initial "newness" is wore off. As I told him, I would not put a full super of these on a hive, and expect them to use them for brood right away. My expericane has been that they need to use them for something else first, like honey and pollen storage, and then the queen will use them. Spraying with sugar water/HBH, will help, but is not going to get the queen into them right away. I have found the best acceptance by alternating HSC with drawen frames, and then in a few weeks removing the drawen frames and replacing with frames of HSC. The drawen frames can then be used in the second brood chamber, again alternating with HSC. I also leave drawen frames to the outsides of the broodchamber for them to use as drone brood/honey storage. Once these frames are used, there should be no problem with use in other hives that have not had HSC in them before. I would not use these for swarms if they are brand new. Overall I am very happy with the HSC frames, and feel that these will pay for themselves with the savings of mite treatments alone. I'm trying to talk him into making them in black, so if everyone request black, we might twist his arm enough to get some!!


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## JaiPea

I bought a 20-frame box to try Supercell out and the cells look larger than expected.

Here are photos of Supercell, plastic foundation and drawn comb incorporated into a single image for direct comparison.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h196/sharingshots/Cell%20Size/fc8c6238.jpg


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## Michael Bush

All of the supercell I measured was 4.9mm inside diameter. 4.9mm comb is 4.8mm inside diameter. But according to the manufacturer, the bottom of the cell is .1mm smaller, so that would make it closer to 4.85mm average diameter from bottom to top. That's pretty close to what I'd want. A natural cell wall is .1mm. The SuperCell cell wall is closer to .5mm (I don't have any in front of me to measure right now). So since the cell walls are different (bee made vs man made) the important thing is the inside diameter. The inside diameter of a 4.9mm comb is 4.8mm. The average inside diameter (from top to bottom) of a SuperCell is 4.85mm.


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## Sundance

JaiPea.... like MB said.....

Measurements have to be different with HSC
due to the cell wall thickness. Measured over
10 cells those tenths of a mm add up to a 
significant amount.


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## Frank Shinji

Anyone have any observations on varroa control? I guess it should be just as good as natural small cell. I was planning on phasing in all mediums but with the instant regression, fairly indestructible frames, no assembly/wiring etc. the HSC just seems to be quite a boon to the beginning hobbyist who's worried (aren't we all) about V-mites. The only long-term downside I can see w/the HSC is the weight (heavy) and it only comes in deeps. I'm surprised there's not more activity on this thread since HSC has been so eagerly awaited. Will Michael Bush wax coat a few of these to make 4.7mm cells, which are within the range for brood cell size, and see if there's another 12 hours or a day less capping and/or emergence time? Wax-dipped HSC might just be an almost complete varroa killer if it only allows 1 to 1 or even lower varroa reproduction. MB, if you'll make a HSC wax coated frame I'd be glad to stick it in my OBH and start keeping records.


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## Michael Bush

I haven't had any plans to wax coat it. After all, it's already the right size, and wax coating is a lot of work. I've only had it in the hives for a couple of months so it's difficult to assess the mite control, but I would expect it to be the same as the wax coated PermaComb.


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## CWBees

I just installed 10 frames HSC in my Carniolan hive. I placed the HSC super between two deeps and sprayed all the frames with sugar syrup. I was holding off installing the frames waiting for a queen excluder. I was told by the manufacturer that the best way to introduce the frames was to confine the queen in the super holding the HSC frames by using a queen excluder and to stoping off the entrance of the a hive entrance for a day to prevent her leaving. I have not received the queen excluder yet so decided to go for it. I still have 10 HSC frames to use and have thought I might place them in the center of my other hives deep supers. My Carniolan hive appeared to be the worst off with mites when I first installed the nuc. However since I installed SBB and have been using the Dowda method all the hives appear to be low on the mite count. All my other hives are Russian. The only thing that is really bothering me is the lack of honey production in the hives so I have started feeding the bees. I think this hot weather has put a damper on honey production.


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## Forrest

Thought it was time to bring this thread back to the top. Lots of folks are waiting for assessments of the HSC product. HSC is probably waiting also! What's the word? Anyone?


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## brent.roberts

OK if this thread is alive, I got my first lot about 6 weeks ago. Two weeks ago I was taking off some honey and saw that they frames were well accepted.

Keen to get more small cell going, I got and put in another 5 boxes of frames. 

Long term, the jury is still out, but I like what I see so far ( with the eyes of 2 years in beekeeping and only 9 hives ).


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## Michael Bush

I find it's the same as PermaComb as far as acceptance (unless you wax coat the PermaComb). The cell size is an improvment (unless you wax coat the PermaComb). But, alas, it's only available in deeps... and I love my mediums.


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## BWrangler

Hi Guys,

Has anyone seen any bald headed brood on their Honey Super Cell? Any additional observations?

Regards
Dennis


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## BULLSEYE BILL

I have a couple of nucs with four HSC on the outside, one PC in the center and PC and or cut out comb above. They have used the HSC for brooding and a little honey storage, but quit using it in favor of the PC.

In the hives with 100% HSC this is not a problem. I plan to set up full deeps with HSC and one medium of PC above for broods next year. I will have to use excluders if I am going to keep the queen down in the HSC.


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## CWBees

I have placed my HSC around the middle of the hive with standard frames on either side of it. They are starting to use it for honey and pollen storage. Originally I had the HSC in the middle of the hive with each HSC frame right next to each other. The bees were ignoring except for the HSC frames on the outside. They would use one side of these frames that were next to a standard frame.

By the way what is permacomb?


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## BULLSEYE BILL

http://www.beesource.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=000127#000000


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## brent.roberts

I have just extracted my first honey from the HSC frames. I never intended to have honey in them, just brood, but .... ???? 
This is a bit of a pain because about half of the frame had raised cells that were easy to uncap and the other half was flush or slightly recessed. I used a scratcher/comb like thing that worked OK but it is slow. I'm waiting on the Hackler honey punch that Micheal Bush suggested.

No problem at all with acceptance. I'll be in the hives again this weekend and see if they have any brood in them. All the rest of the frames are a mix of white and black Pierco and I like them too.

Really hoping they will get brood in the HSC for the small cell benefits.


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## Ron Young

Sounds like this is a good product. I am new at this beekeeping thing, and to be honest, don't really know enough to feel comfortable with my abilities in beekeeping to go this route right now. However, if I make it through the winter with the one hive of muts that I have now, and successfully split next spring, I may try it the following year. I will be interested to know the results of mite control studies on this product.

Comparing the same hive, on 5.4 to the same hive on 4.9, what is the result in mite problems?

[ September 27, 2006, 02:16 PM: Message edited by: NCBeginner ]


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## CWBees

I checked out my Carniolan hive today and found some larva on the side of one of my HSC frames. I tried to place all the the HSC frames between frmaes of brood. This appears to be working out well. I want to check out my other hives when I get time to see how they are making out with the frames. It would also be interesting to place one of the HSC frames in my OB hive to see the decrease in capping and uncapping times.


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## Michael Bush

>Comparing the same hive, on 5.4 to the same hive on 4.9, what is the result in mite problems?

I assume everyone knows my observations. But I will reiterate. There are a lot less mites with the same bees on 4.9mm.


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## JaiPea

The thread started with:

> Been waiting for some comments before I shelled out some money.

It will take at least a full year of experience before most of us who have bought HSC can draw any conclusions.

At this time the HSC frames are pretty much being ignored by my hives.

Most of the HSC frames are alternated between brood frames in established hives. All of them were sprayed with HBH or sugar water before installation.

- Three hives have ignored the HSC frames
- Two hives have built burr comb between the HSC and brood frames, but put nothing in the HSC cells.
- One hive has stored pollen in scattered cells across two of the HSC frames

A late swarm was put into one hive with HSC and bare frames. The queen used about 6 square inches for brood, and then switched exclusively to freshly drawn wax.

It's too soon to decide whether HSC frames are good, bad or indifferent since they were introduced late in the year (July) when there is no brood buildup going on, and the population is declining in preparation for winter.

Introducing them was not expected to be successful, the objective was to let the bees get used to them, crawl over them, lose the plastic smell, and be available for spring buildup.

When it comes to the queen's preference for laying, my experience is:

- New comb on starter strips
- New cells built on wax foundation

I used plastic frames for honey supering, but have had a few queens use the cells for laying. In general, my experience has been that bees use plastic foundation as a last resort and are very prone to building burr comb on them and between them.

All of my hives are from swarms or feral removals (in walls, ceilings etc) and the brood chambers are either feral comb (in frames) or comb built from starter strips. The cells are small or tending that way, so the cell size of HSC is not the barrier to acceptance it might be in hives with the larger cells based on standard foundation.

It will be interesting to see what happens in spring.

JP


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## BULLSEYE BILL

Well, I put the checks in the mail today. Ordered 50 deeps from Browning Cut Stock and 500 HSC frames from Max.

I think that like Permacomb, if the bees are given no choice but HSC they will use it. And once it is used they will always readily use it.


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## Michael Bush

>It will take at least a full year of experience before most of us who have bought HSC can draw any conclusions.

That's pretty much it. Mine have been accepted, but I can't even speculate on mite control for at least a year, other than the fact that it is smaller cells and it SHOULD help.


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## magnet-man

Are they only making the HSC frames now? They used to have traditional plastic frames.


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## BULLSEYE BILL

I'm sure that all the other products are still available, I tried to find the link for you but only come up with the HSC link:

http://www.honeysupercell.com/sblog/index.php

Give Max a call on the toll free number and the nice lady will give you the web site info.


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## magnet-man

Here is an origianl link that I used a long time ago. As you can see the page does not work like it did.
http://www.honeysupercell.com/6928.html


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## CWBees

I hope they make the HSC in medium frame size somtine in the future. The deep frames are heavy.


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## Michael Bush

>I hope they make the HSC in medium frame size somtine in the future. The deep frames are heavy.

YES!


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## BULLSEYE BILL

The GF and I set up at a two day fair this last weekend. She sold ceramics, honey pots, mugs, etc. and I sold honey. We had a good weekend.

I again set up an OB hive to draw attention to our booth, which works great.

I have a small hive of one deep of HSC. It's not full, just about eight frames, three of those are just partially filled with honey. Of the five full frames, one is PC with wax drawn under about half of it.

I got up at the crack of dawn and waited until I could see in the twilight to pull frames for the OB hive. I found the queen on a nice frame of HSC and slid the frame into the top of the hive. In the bottom of the box I put one frame feeder of syrup and the other frames of brood and food.

I was able to see the queen laying for two days in the HSC,  always on the same side for some reason. It got too dark to put them back into their hive until Monday morning.

I put the frame with the queen into the original hive box. While I was looking at the one PC frame with the drawn wax on it admiring the full frame of brood when I noticed another queen!  

There was no evidence of a queen cell in the hive, but there was defiantly at least two queens in the hive with no fighting going on and an impressive amount of brood.

Interesting observation is that the 4.9 bees don't look any different than 5.0 bees. I was expecting them to look smaller than my PC bees.


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## Michael Bush

There's not much difference between 5.0 and 4.9mm. There's a LOT more difference between 5.4 and 4.9mm.


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## brent.roberts

I've just been in a few of my hives and looked for brood in the HSC. None. Give them (Her) a choice and it seems they will us anything but HSC. I re-arranged the HSC frames to the outside of the box to provide a brood core with the Pierco which has brood, in the center for the winter. They are putting pollen and honey in some of the HSC.

In the spring I'll force the issue by giving a few hives no choice and see how that goes. Lots of wax moths around here. I want this stuff to work !


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## False Positive

I have question for the HSC experts here. By the way, this is my first post on beesource, it looks like a great site. 

I've planning on installing two packages of Italians next spring. What do you think of using the HSC at the time of installation? Am I asking for trouble or would the queens be more likely to use the HSC if nothing else is available? I would lightly wax and syrup the HSC prior to use. 

Thanks for your feedback.


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## brent.roberts

The folks at HSC are super attentive. Each time I ordered they called to chat about how to use the frames.

Give them a call.

From what they told me and my experience, either use HSC exclusively in the brood box, with a queen excluder above, or you'll not likely get them to accept it for brood. Once they get going on it it seems to go fine, but if the queen has a choice, she'll take wax over plastic every time.


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## Sundance

The protocol for packages is to cover
the entrances with 1/8th wire, install
them with a frame feeder and nothing
but HSC. Leave them for a few days until
you remove the wire.


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## BULLSEYE BILL

Max Hamby the manufacturer, is suggesting that a queen excluder be installed just above the bottom board to keep the queen in until she starts laying.


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## xC0000005

Ordered som HSC to try a package on. I don't know when it will ship or arrive but I'm looking forward to seeing how it works.


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## CWBees

I will probably order another 20 frames of HSC in the spring. I would like to set up a hive with all HSC then feed sc foundation to the hive hoping they draw it correctly. I also want to place some in my ob hive so I can really see what is going on.


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## xC0000005

Well, I got home and there my frames are. They're heavy and there are some deformities in the cells cast next to the plastic lines on the sides but nothing I don't think the bees can deal with. Should be very interesting. If someone has used these, do the bees use the frames with the holes in the bottom for stores or fill them in?


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## Michael Bush

>do the bees use the frames with the holes in the bottom for stores or fill them in?

Could you elaborate? I don't understand what you're describing.


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## BULLSEYE BILL

>there are some deformities in the cells cast next to the plastic lines on the sides 

Those holes in the side bars are for the push pins during manufacturing. Also notice that there are fifty-six filled cells on one side of the frame. Those are for pushing the frame out of the mold. The four holes in the end bars are from the centering pins that push it out and the staring on the end of the frame are just stress marks in the plastic.

It's a big chunk of plastic and a bit hard to get out of the mold.

>do the bees use the frames with the holes in the bottom for stores or fill them in?

There are no holes in the bottom of the frames, but if you mean the end bars, no. The end bars set tight against each other and there is no access to them.


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## xC0000005

Let me elaborate slightly and see if it makes sense - note that I'm just curious if the bees even notice the holes. Take a frame of HSC and look at the side with the thick plastic "lines". Look at a cell that borders the heavy plastic line - it helps to hold it up to the light. At the bottom of some of these border cells the cell wall has either not been completely filled during the injection or collapsed inward. Again, probably not anything affecting the usage, I just wondered if the bees would consider this "cell damage" and repair it or just ignore it.


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## BULLSEYE BILL

The one I have here in the house does not have that, but I have seen it on a few PC frames.

If it is just a void in the drawing out of the cells, the bees just repair it and draw it out further.


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## Mitch

Well i think finaly i will try some SC this spring with these new frames.Plan on trying a few ways that i have seen on this thread to get the bees to work it.

A Big thanks to all who have comented on the new super cell.


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## John Seets

Bill;

FYI: The comb is pulled out of the mold assuming SC is produced like the PC. Not pushed. (Unless you know something that I don't :-})


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## BULLSEYE BILL

I was just trying to explain what Max told me. That it was very difficult to get that large stuck piece of plastic out of the mold and needed a lot of 'pushing points' to push against.

All of them are on one side of the frame.


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## BerkeyDavid

I will try it as soon as they start making it in medium size.


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## swarm_trapper

here is a little bump for this post. wondering how will the bees accept it if they have regular frames with brood in and i give them a few in the brood nest maybe throw three in the bottom box. put it in every other frame with brood. So you would end up woth you bottom box with: frame,frame, brood,HSC,brood,HSC,brood,HSC,frame, frame. from what i get out of the above posts it works but takes a little time before they take it. thanks Nick


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## Michael Bush

In my experience, if the only room they have to expand in the broodnest is the HSC they will take it fine. If there is other expansion room available for the brood nest (empty frames, foundation, drawn comb etc.) they will ignore it.


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## SuperCell

There has not been any posts about HSC in a long time. Spring is coming and we would like to see your comments about your experiences with the HSC frame. Thanks.


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## odfrank

My 35 years experience tells me that bees prefer wax combs. Send me ten complimentary frames of HSC and I'll give them a try and post about my experience.


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## Lively Bee's

I ordered 20 case's so that I can set up 20 splits on it in april I did place a few frames in my feral hive and so far they have packed it with honey, Next week I am going to force them on 10 new HSC and see what the qeen will do.


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## Sundance

I'll give you a full report this coming 
spring as I will be installing several 
packages on HSC


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## Janice Lane

I have notice SHB's like to try to hide in the HSC's more than the wax drawn frames. Maybe the bees didn't bother them there. I looked very throughly at the wax frames but I suppose the beetles could have been hiding still. Anyway, it is much easier to kill the beetles in the HSC. 

Last spring I had a queen start laying in them right before she disappeared. I think she hadn't been laying for awhile and was superceded. I took them out for winter so the brood nest wouldn't be split up. I will try again in spring.


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## pahvantpiper

Yup, I'll be starting many packages on HSC this spring too (beginning of April) and will let you know how things go.

-Rob


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## SuperCell

The inventory at HSC is getting low. If you need HSC soon, it would be a good idea to get your order in. Thanks


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## BULLSEYE BILL

*Spring inspection*

Weather has broken and the trees are starting to bloom.

I was getting some hives ready to move out to the farm this evening, the smaller ones first as I will be splitting the larger ones before I move them.

I was impressed that I was able to overwinter small colonies on a single deeps of HSC. I had three singles that had four to six frames of bees and stores, the remaining frames were empty. They each had at least two frames of wall to wall brood! In one of the hives I had one frame of foundationless that was next to brood and they were completely ignoring the natural comb. 

I also had some larger colonies that had moved up and out of the HSC, but it was very evident that they had used it for brooding. I will save it for swarms and install a new box of HSC under that hive with an excluder above so to force the queen down making the heart of the nest HSC again.

I am really liking what I am seeing.

Of note is that the hives I forgot to install the bottom tray under the SBB are smaller in numbers and are not taking off as fast as the ones that were closed up, but those were not large hives, these were the swarms from last summer.


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## wfarler

*HSC experimenting: regression, brood hatch times*

Anyone used these for regression? If so how long before you started inserting undrawn frames alongside the HSC? results?

Anyone done any experiments to check emergence times on HSC or had long enough to make any speculations on it's effectiveness on mite loads?

Thanks.


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## Michael Bush

>Anyone done any experiments to check emergence times on HSC or had long enough to make any speculations on it's effectiveness on mite loads?

I haven't, and I'd like to, but the dimensions are similar to the wax coated PermaComb, so I would suspect you'd get similar results.


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## Keith Benson

I put a package on the stuff, sandwitched them in with a Queen "includer" as I had heard of some swarms/packages leaving if placed on HSC. There be eggs in there.

Keith


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## Ryan1098

When using these for brood what do you do for making frames available for drones? Just ordered a box yesterday. For a 3lb package I have ariving in a little under 2 weeks.

Thanks.

Ryan


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## Keith Benson

Keith Benson said:


> I put a package on the stuff, sandwitched them in with a Queen "includer" as I had heard of some swarms/packages leaving if placed on HSC. There be eggs in there.
> 
> Keith


I may have spoken too soon.

Keith


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## drobbins

I cut 40 frames of it down last fall and made 90 mediums
since I was bored in the winter and wanted to get some of it into a hive I took 2 boxes of it and laid the frames on their side and poured sugar and some water in them
after it dried I put them on a hive that was light so it would have enough stores
the bottom of those boxes has quite a bit of brood in it now
I also started 2 nucs on it on 3-31-07
they consisted of 1 drawn wax comb and 4 new HSC combs
they both have brood in the wax comb and I'll let you know what a full inspection looks like in another 10 days or so
our main flow should start about then

Dave


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## BULLSEYE BILL

>When using these for brood what do you do for making frames available for drones?

I don't worry about drones, there are always plenty of drones around. They always find a place to make some somewhere in the hive.


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## SuperCell

New photos of Spring 2007 HSC in Southeastern US

http://zacharyfarmsllc.com/HSC.htm


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## Bryon

So. It's been almost a year and a half since people started using this stuff and talking about it here. whats the verdict? I've read the entire thread and so for the results have been mixed.

no one has posted anything in quite a while so now I'm wondering if there is a reason for the silance.


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## BULLSEYE BILL

It's been a really mixed up year for me. I was ready to pull all my empty supers off in July and start feeding when I started getting a little flow. Now I have only pulled half of my supers and started feeding the hives without supers, it's been a fair summer and fall flow. I haven't been in too many of the hives to take a good look but I can tell you that I have seen mixed results.

My plan for this year was to split and make 50 new HSC hives. Didn't happen.  With the late freeze and no spring flow, my bees just didn't have what it took to take off and make splits. I was able to get about thirty of the HSC deeps into service though, some in swarms and cutouts, and a few on small over wintered hives needing more space.

My bees have two choices, HSC or PC. It seems that a lot of them prefer the PC but when it is full they use the HSC, and when consolidating will leave the HSC first. Others hives seem to not care and will use the HSC as quickly as the PC.

For the most part this was a year of getting the HSC used for the first time. What is common in both the PC and HSC is that once it is used by the bees, "broke in" if you will, it is accepted just like if it were their own wax.

Bottom line, It Depends. I will say that some bees like it, most tolerate it, and a few really just don't want to touch it.


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## xC0000005

BULLSEYE BILL said:


> For the most part this was a year of getting the HSC used for the first time. What is common in both the PC and HSC is that once it is used by the bees, "broke in" if you will, it is accepted just like if it were their own wax.
> 
> Bottom line, It Depends. I will say that some bees like it, most tolerate it, and a few really just don't want to touch it.


I'll second this as well. It took forever to get the queen to lay in the HSC. If they put nectar or pollen in it first the queen would then use it. When I took the HSC hive to the mountains it had twelve frames of solid brood. Now the top box is capped honey and the bees don't seem to care that it's plastic at all. I expect the HSC hive to do really well next year when they can expand the broodnest at will.


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## drobbins

I started two packages on it this spring and they were very slow to get going
we had terrible weather, late freeze and drought all summer, but they are doing pretty good now
feeding em, hope they take off next spring

Dave


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## Panhandle Bee man

So what's the mite counts been for everyone? Are you still treating for mites?


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## BULLSEYE BILL

Panhandle Bee man said:


> So what's the mite counts been for everyone? Are you still treating for mites?


The last time I treated was with OA in fall of 2003.


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## pahvantpiper

I started over 100 packages on HSC this year and the jury's still out...some did good, others not so good. Very low mites so far though.



-Rob


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## wfarler

*regression using HSC*

I put 5 packages on HSC. Four out of the Five did well about normal. I locked them in for 3 days with a feeder before letting them fly - by then they had become accustomed to the plastic and settled in. After 8 weeks I added a second deep during a flow using Dadant 4.9mm wax foundation. Those that drew the second deep out did a fairly good job. They do prefer wax, moving right up from the HSC into the wax.

One of the packages was my best performing hive this year. 

First year mite counts don't mean anything to me so I haven't bothered to count, next year will be the true test.


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## mintong

Bought 2 hives worth to put some russian packages on. 

Any spring HSC success/disaster stories yet?


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## memcnult

I put one package on these April 1, with 6 in the middle and 2 frames of standard undrawn foundation on either side (actually one of those was drawn out). Following advice gleaned from here, I sprayed each side of the HSC with sugar syrup, and shut the bees in (with feeder) for three days.

It was actually kind of a mix up that I got these, I thought I was ordering the small cell foundation. In any event, so far so good. The Queen definitely started out laying mostly in the one drawn out standard cell, but by last Sunday (two weeks in) there was a fairly big area of brood in the HSC. 

Only time will tell on the mite counts.


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## ahickman406

Does anyone have any recent experience with HSC Frames
Thanks
Art


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## Michael Bush

There have been some more recent posts. My most recent experience is with the ones that came from China. The new ones are coming from the US but the quality seems have slipped by all accounts on here. Fuzzy edges instead of crisp ones. Seems you have to sand off those fuzzy edges to get them to use it. My experience with the Chinese version was that it sets them back two weeks getting them to accept it and after that it works just like any drawn comb.


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