# Regrafted and added royal jelly



## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

This is a bar of 48 cells. Last week I grafted into this same hive and came away with TWO queen cells. Talk about a poor beekeeper! 

But it's that time of the season, and for most of the spring I will graft with just a little diluted honey. And I have normally about 25 to 30 cells from a graft of 32. But the flow is in decline. The bees will not do that anymore. So what is one to do?

I took the royal jelly from the same hive and prepped the top ten cells and the middle ten cells on the left hand side of the picture. (I did knock down and get the jelly from about 5 additional cells they made on the frames.) If you look at the marks on the bar, you can see the twenty I am referring too. Of the 20 cells prepped with royal jelly, I had 18 out of 20. If you count the remaining 28 cells only prepped with diluted honey, the count is 5 out of 28.

Thought this might help someone.


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## MapMan (May 24, 2007)

I thought it was common practice to _always_ use royal jelly in grafting (?). It's not _that_ expensive, especially when you consider the minuscule amount that needs to be used per cell. Please correct me if I'm misinformed.

MM


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

"always"... no.

Many use honey, dry graft, or some other thing.

I don't use it much of the year. Don't need to. But when the flow slows, then it does make a huge difference.

Personally, I would be leery of buying from another. I do agree, its cheap (Your own), and its relatively easy to use.


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

Second round of the year, I grafted dry and got 15 out of 20. 

I have never primed. Maybe I shoudl try. I just thought that if you feed the doner hive before you graft, there would be enough royal jelly to take when you graft.


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

Borj: was this in a double deep or single deep?


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Chef Isaac said:


> Borj: was this in a double deep or single deep?


A strong 1-1/2.


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

Interesting.
I always prime with royal jelly, and have good success. I will have to try diluted honey next year on half a bar and see how it goes.
Nice pic, btw.
Sheri


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

JohnK and Sheri said:


> Interesting.
> I always prime with royal jelly, and have good success. I will have to try diluted honey next year on half a bar and see how it goes.
> Nice pic, btw.
> Sheri


Sheri, Thank you.

I've been playing around with this stuff. My only comment would be "Was the cells just selected due to the royal jelly being where it was, and this caused the other cells to be ignored?" Basically asking, how many would be drawn if no royal jelly would be used (I know I got 2 the week before) But is prepping half with and half without like asking bees to draw wax and plastic at the same time? No matter the hive strength, as you could imagine that with enough bees "wouldn't they draw them all out", but it seems they have a selection criteria or pattern they follow.

I have a graft I did yesterday that has two bars with wax cups and one bar with plastic cups. All prepped with royal jelly. It will be interesting to see the numbers. But again, would just a series of individual grafts set up the same way show more? By having bees choose what does that mean? They have preferences. But without the choice, will they do just as many?

I always have a time of the season when it slows down. And diluted honey seems fine in a flow, but not late in the year. So I'm just trying to figure out optimal production. (Boy, if I only had time for those SARE grants...  )

I'm sure all this was probably done before. But its neat to see in practice. Beats arguing with people on that beesource site over trivial stuff....


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

BjornBee said:


> Beats arguing with people on that beesource site over trivial stuff....


What!!!!! are you feeling ok Bjorn. lol


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

>>>>Beats arguing with people on that beesource site over trivial stuff.... <<<<

He's pulling your leg, Keith.....Nothing beats that!


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## Oldbee (Sep 25, 2006)

"But it's neat to see it in practice. Beats arguing with people on that beesource site about trivial -stuff".-- Bjornbee.

Yeah! All that,.."trivial stuff" about a frame of,..melted wax, lol.

Too many [pea] nuts and not enough queens?

Interesting,...photo.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Oldbee;334374
Yeah! All that said:


> nuts and not enough queens?.


lol


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

BjornBee said:


> Sheri, Thank you.
> 
> I've been playing around with this stuff. My only comment would be "Was the cells just selected due to the royal jelly being where it was, and this caused the other cells to be ignored?" .....
> I have a graft I did yesterday that has two bars with wax cups and one bar with plastic cups. All prepped with royal jelly.......without the choice, will they do just as many?
> I always have a time of the season when it slows down. And diluted honey seems fine in a flow, but not late in the year. So I'm just trying to figure out optimal production. )


Yeah, that is the problem figuring out_ anything_ with bees. There are so many variables. 
And then there can always be beekeeper error thrown in. For example, earlier in the year we were fooling with the finisher hives, and left one open while we made up another, finding the queen to put below the excluder. Put that queen in a nuc box to the side while we checked for cells. We went to put her back below the excluder but this mated queen had flown! She _was_ young but still. Owell, we think, she will come back. Went back, put the cells in the first finisher and closed them up.
Came back later and of course, those cells in the first finisher were gone, found that fly away queen in there, she went into that open finisher, 20' away. Moral of the story don't leave your finishers open for even a short time. 

But I am wondering why you don't just use RJ on all your grafts since it seems like it might be tough to tell when the time to change over is? Is there an advantage to the diluted honey? Maybe to answer my own question I guess maybe it is easier to mix up a little honey than to harvest the RJ to graft with? 
Have you tried coconut milk? I have heard that works well too. Maybe with the bees it just comes down to working around whatever substance we put in there that doesn't kill that perfect larvae they want so desperately. Maybe the difference is the level of desperation.
I will be curious to see how they choose between plastic and wax. I would think they would choose the wax. But it is for my curiousity's sake only, as we use plastic and normally have good takes (assuming no bonehead beekeeper error).
Sheri


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Sheeri,
I am actually trying royal jelly from the same hive in which I graft into. I have been pulling the queen and letting the hive start cells. And then harvesting the RJ and immediately grafting right back into the same hive. My numbers are actually showing an even bigger take rate when using RJ from the same hive as opposed to RJ harvested from other hives or bought from outside sources.


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## Yuleluder (Mar 2, 2005)

Here are some pics of my latest cells. I pulled them yesterday. Grafted into plastic using dilluted honey. Cloake board method was used on a two deep hive. I had setup the hive a couple of weeks ago by adding extra brood from other hives. I used 2 frames with 2 bars on each fram with about 13 cells on each bar.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Lucas,
Your girlfriend finally let you back out to play? Man, where have you been?


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## Yuleluder (Mar 2, 2005)

Been busy with work and the bees. Just made up 40 mating nucs yesterday. Hows things out your way?


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