# Nuc vs established and checkerboarding



## Guletsi (Jun 24, 2015)

Hello. First season bee Green Horne in need of clarification. Working with Lang 8 frames.

1. Our first hive this year was a nuc and it's going off like gang busters. We added box onto nuc box, watched it fill up, added another and now in less than two weeks it is full. My goal in beekeeping/husbandry for my part to is to minimalize what I alter, but certainly the health of hive first most. To start adding my supers, I read that I need excluder and I understand why, but my frames are with foundation, so if it's healthier to not exclude her then I don't see the necessity. 

2. Our second hive we just picked up and is in a deep and already established. We need to add a second deep in a few days. This time, I'm suppose to checkerboard the frames. Is that because the boxes are so deep and the whole concept of bees wanting to continually build the comb up and the deep causes too big of a gap? But my gals are totally building comb in between boxes in my first hive anyway, so wouldn't the new hive just build their own bridge? My concern is breaking up their brood nest just seems counter productive to me. Temp, food, and pattern are such priorities that I don't understand how checkerboarding is in their best interest?

If anyone is willing to clarify for me, I would be most appreciative! Understanding through just knowledge is not the same as adding experience to the mix!


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## teatimetony (Jul 23, 2013)

like everything else some people checkerboard others dont. my girls do just fine if i plop an empty deep right on top of the brood nest or under it. just make sure your flow is on or you are feeding you will notice a big decline in comb construction when you hit the summer derth. if you have the proper "bee space" you should not be getting all that much burr comb between boxes. only place mine build burr or bridges as your referring to them is in my double deep hives with an entrance shim between them. i dont have lower entrances and the shims are 1/4-3/4" thick because i just cut off sections of boxes if the tops start to warp out to make them. so the bees do build quite a bit between the boxes. i scrape all the excess comb away during inspections and they have it rebuilt in as fast as a couple days.


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## teatimetony (Jul 23, 2013)

as for the nuc i wouldnt worry about an excluder. It all gets backfilled with honey if the queen starts to lay too high up in the boxes. usually once a band of honey forms above the brood nest she wont cross it. why dont you move them into full size boxes? they will probably explode with the extra space!


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## ChuckReburn (Dec 17, 2013)

I'm more comfortable bringing the outter frames of the brood nest up rather than checkerboarding. In an 8 frame box this typically means moving the frames in position 2 and 7 into the 4&5 position on the new box. Pyramiding up:

HBBBBBBH becomes:

EEEBBEEE
HEBBBBEH


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

If your bees are doing fine why screw it up?


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## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

Some checkerboard to get the bees to draw comb faster. That does not really happen as they then have to draw the comb in the bottom box before they move up. If the bottom is full and they need space, they will move up. or down.

Tony is right about the nuc, If you have two nucs boxes above each other then you have 1 full hive body. Unless they are 5 frame nucs and you have 8 frame hives then you are 20% into the upper. I wound place them in a hive and add a second. before I worried about the supers. Unless you plan on running single hive bodies. You are in Alabama and we are in the north so out line of thinking is generally a bit different.


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## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

Welcome! I hope you mean full of brood or food. Anything less, like drawn and not filled, and they do not need it yet.


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## Guletsi (Jun 24, 2015)

AmericasBeekeeper said:


> Welcome! I hope you mean full of brood or food. Anything less, like drawn and not filled, and they do not need it yet.


Yes. Brood is full and two boxes of honey on top of the brood is full.


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## Guletsi (Jun 24, 2015)

Tenbears said:


> Some checkerboard to get the bees to draw comb faster. That does not really happen as they then have to draw the comb in the bottom box before they move up. If the bottom is full and they need space, they will move up. or down.
> 
> Tony is right about the nuc, If you have two nucs boxes above each other then you have 1 full hive body. Unless they are 5 frame nucs and you have 8 frame hives then you are 20% into the upper. I wound place them in a hive and add a second. before I worried about the supers. Unless you plan on running single hive bodies. You are in Alabama and we are in the north so out line of thinking is generally a bit different.


I do not have a mentor. We were sold a nuc, two boxes that were same size as nuc, and two shallow boxes, floor, bottom hive stand, feeder, and lid. I didn't understand I was suppose to move them into a deep this year. Would you recommend we go ahead and do that? Thank you. 

Thank you to all. I was not expecting such a good response! !!!


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## Guletsi (Jun 24, 2015)

teatimetony said:


> as for the nuc i wouldnt worry about an excluder. It all gets backfilled with honey if the queen starts to lay too high up in the boxes. usually once a band of honey forms above the brood nest she wont cross it. why dont you move them into full size boxes? they will probably explode with the extra space!


They likely would! I have been a few days behind adding the next box each time.


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## Guletsi (Jun 24, 2015)

It's moving much faster than we expected.


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## Guletsi (Jun 24, 2015)

My bad. What I'm calling a nuc is incorrect. We started with a nuc not a package, and my bottom box is a medium 8 frame. Apologies. Lingo...so important!


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

"Checkerboard" would indicate "every other frame". If you break a brood nest into every other frame you will totally stress the bees and probably end up with some dead brood. If you put an empty frame in a moderately successful brood nest you will not stress them much at all. The term "checkerboard" is usually used in terms of something you do ABOVE the brood nest in late winter to prevent swarming. I know of no other useful manipulation that would meet that description.


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