# OH Colony Died



## D Coates (Jan 6, 2006)

I can't solve it but I can ask questions only you can answer what might lead you to diagnosis. Answering these questions honestly will help you, but toss out suspicions unless there's actual evidence. You mentioned no evidence to support your suspicion. I've screwed up my OB 5 deep frame OB hive more than a few times but have been lucky enough to recognize my mistake and overcome it before they died.

1st, Is this a new OB hive (never used)? 
2nd, How big and long is the opening? 
3rd, Is it in direct sunlight? How does it regulate heat and humidity?
4th, What did you do to monitor or treat for mites?
5th, What did the brood look like? Was it spotty at any point?
6th, Did the queen reduce her brood size as the population diminished?
7th, Any brood die as the population contracted? What did they look like?
8th, You mention the hive died. Did they abscond or die at their post?
9th, Were the dead being hauled out or dropping to the bottom?
10th, When was the last time you manipulated the hives?
11th, how much honey and pollen was still available?


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## Irmo (Jan 9, 2012)

1st, Is this a new OB hive (never used)? Yes it was new. Built by another beekeeper who has built several other.
2nd, How big and long is the opening? 1: PVC and clear tubing. The tubing is approximately 8inches; and the PVC Is another 12+ inches to get through the wall and extend outside.
3rd, Is it in direct sunlight? How does it regulate heat and humidity? No direct sunlight on the hive, The hive itself is located indoors in a temperature controlled room. There are nine screened air holes around the hive for ventilation.
4th, What did you do to monitor or treat for mites? Nothing. I photograph the visible frames and load them on my computer. This allows me to zoom in and make a close inspection. But that is not my method on mite count. I assume I would do a sugar roll on the OH since there is no option to do a drop count (which is what I do on my full size hives). But I didn't do that on this hive. I did do an inspection inside the hive post mortem and looked on the bottom for dead mites. I saw none.
5th, What did the brood look like? Was it spotty at any point? Not spotty. Initially it was strong and solid, even on the frames that were not with the original nuc. After the population dive, it was still compact but became progressively smaller.
6th, Did the queen reduce her brood size as the population diminished? Yes, most definitely.
7th, Any brood die as the population contracted? What did they look like? I did not observe anything like that (but I was only there one a week)
8th, You mention the hive died. Did they abscond or die at their post? I assume the absconded. Once the population got very small I began to see some dead bees in the hive. Before that they must have been hauled out or died elsewhere. The massive drop was either absconding or died elsewhere in huge numbers.
9th, Were the dead being hauled out or dropping to the bottom? See last answer...early on they were hauled out.
10th, When was the last time you manipulated the hives? Only when I installed them. Beginning of June. The big population drop was end of August. So 3 months elapsed.
11th, how much honey and pollen was still available? There was still pollen in the cells though not "frames full". There was still pollen in the cells though not "frames full". Foragers were bringing it in even as the population continued to diminish in September. There is nectar (syrup) in the frames I fed the hive for six weeks. The is nearly no capped honey in the hive. A few small patches.n as the population continued to diminish in September. There is nectar (syrup) in the frames I fed the hive for six weeks. The is nearly no capped honey in the hive. A few small patches.


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## D Coates (Jan 6, 2006)

1. What's the width of the entrance/exit? 
2. Was the nuc overwintered? 
3. What mite monitoring or treatments were done on it prior to your purchase?
4. 8 medium frames. 2 stacked side by side 4 tall correct?


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## brushwoodnursery (Feb 10, 2012)

I read this last night before going to bed. Just as I was falling asleep, I had a few thoughts. First, how frustrating it can be to keep an OH at an institution. I've done 3.
One has been difficult because of humans. Some idiot poked out the screens and bees filled the exhibit hall! We have since placed grills over them. Another time, some @#$% stuffed just the right size pine cone into the 2" PVC vent and almost destroyed the colony.
The other 2 suffered complete death; each very suddenly. It was in spring, during the nectar flow. Everything was fine until suddenly there were massive deaths of adult bees inside and around the hives. I cleaned them out and many more died until both were total losses.
I still suspect pesticides. My initial thought was something sprayed on flowers or a systemic like a neonic in use outside. Then i thought it may have been a %$#@ sprayed something into a vent because they don't like bees or they are just a $%#@. Then last night I had a new thought. What if it was something like a roach treatment? At the one institution where it hasn't happened (hasn't happened in my 2 personal OHs either), they have animals throughout the exhibit hall and would never spray or bomb for roaches. I'm going to ask them if they have a company treat and what/how it's done. The pest control company may be defensive and not give me a good answer but it might be revealing.

OK, that's a really long answer but consider asking. Depending on the nature of the chemical and rate of exposure, your girls may not have died inside the hive. For example, they say very low doses of neonics cause a disorientation effect which may prevent foragers from successfully returning because they can't find home.


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## D Coates (Jan 6, 2006)

My colony is in an office building and they spray for insects. Ironically that guy (who's daughter plays on the same soccer team as my daughter) is an entomologist and was in on Monday to spray. I'm going on 5-6 years of having this hive. Those insecticides have had no clear impact on my hive. He applies different and multiple mixtures through the year. He does know the hive is there and avoids spraying directly around it but is spraying the full strength stuff down 10ft away. Assuming pesticides with no proof before looking in the mirror is easier but keeps folks from learning and being better beekeepers.

I've had my hive almost die 2-3 times and it's always been a beekeeper issue. Clogged entrance/exit pipe (made by yours truly), unsuccessful requeening attempts caught in the nick of time, and lastly they almost starved to death this spring. I easily lost 1/3 of the hive population, this caused SHB's to flare up and I had to empty the hive multiple times of the dead. The hive was too weak to haul their dead and the SHB's we laying eggs in the dead. They're fine now but it required more than a bit of effort to revive them. 

I could have easily blamed insecticides for causing confusion or whatever and the bees weren't able to get out of the hive to get food or something else that relieved me of my guilt. Unless I smell wasp spray I never seriously consider insecticides. It was my fault, I was out of town for 5 days and didn't refill the feeder before I left. They were relatively low on food and I knew it, but it was Spring I figured they had plenty of access to good food. It rained the whole time I was gone so they were building brood purely on reserves and simply ran out. OB hives require monitoring more than once a week by someone who's experienced.


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## Irmo (Jan 9, 2012)

This is good information. Thanks. I've been away for a few days so haven't caught up.

D. Coates:
1. What's the width of the entrance/exit? I'll measure it this weekend. I believe its 2" diameter. 
2. Was the nuc overwintered? Not sure, I'll ask the provider. I think the answer is no. But I will say it was a very strong nuc nonetheless.
3. What mite monitoring or treatments were done on it prior to your purchase? Apistan strips were used before I picked up the colony.
4. 8 medium frames. 2 stacked side by side 4 tall correct? Corrrect.

I have a few questions. Do you constantly feed the the OH? Both syrup and pollen substitute? This may have been a contributor. I didn't feed them at all until early September, after the heavy population drop occurred. I guess I still don't really know if they died or left.

Also, do you manage the population on a regular basis? This hive was literally packed with bees in July... I mean packed. I was worried about disrupting the colony just six weeks after housing them so I left them alone to manage the population on their own. I was also wondering how I would close the door on the hive with so many bees. Should I have removed a couple of frames and bees to regulate over-crowding?

The Visitor Center where they are situation is a quiet place . Only open the third weekend of the month when there are volunteers to staff it. The rest of time it houses a Caretaker who runs the preserve and a naturalist who is on staff. They provided me with the observations between my visits. No pesticides of any kind are used on the preserve, but that doesn't account for the neighbors. Lot's to think about.


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## D Coates (Jan 6, 2006)

I've got a 1.5" entrance for 5 deep frames. It's tight as they can only use the circumference to walk in and out on, but my entrance length is If 2" I'd bet you're entrance is tight as well so bees end up not being able to get in and out as freely as they'd like and need so they may not be getting the supplies as consistently as they need. This puts stress on the hive.

I don't feed the hive syrup until I feel they need it but once I start I'm doing it until they start ignoring it, or winter starts. I tried to feed pollen substitute but I don't do it in my OB. OB are swarmy enough, pollen substitute seems to encourage this and encourages SHB's. I make note of their stores and feed syrup accordingly, or I steal a capped frame of honey and replace an empty frame in the OB. Do I manage the population? Continually. If I find the queen laying in all 5 frames I'll swipe 1 or 2 frames here and there replacing them with empty drawn frames. If I find active swarm cells I know it's time to act ASAP once the cell(s) is capped . I'll steal the original queen, and a frame of capped brood with stores and move them into a nuc offsite. You can never have too many nucs. I then watch the Q cells closely adding a frame of eggs and open brood about 2 weeks after the split to make sure there's no population crash and to see if they make a Queen out of any of the eggs (telling me none of the emerged/capped queens are viable). I don't let them get too packed until late August early October. You want a REALLY packed OB going into winter, but you also need to make sure they're fully stocked with stores. I just refilled my feeder this morning.

When they are really packed and you need to work them? Wait for there to be no one around. Find the queen on a frame and put her aside. Get 2-3 of the frames and give them a shake near the entrance they use to get into and out of the structure that you keep the hive in. Looks bad because bees initially go everywhere They'll end up at that entrance and cluster waiting for you to hook the OB hive back up. Now you're not dealing with all that population and can get your work done with minimal bees getting crushed.

My 2 cents? The biggest challenge you've got is the hive being 2 frames wide. The relatively small entrance, only reviewing the hive once a week or having an untrained eye reporting isn't helping. The queen will lay on the inside as she likes privacy. You can't see what she's doing. Is she laying chockablock, creating swarm cells, failing, or dead, etc? Does the hive appear to have chalkbrood, EFB, etc? You've got no idea until you either open up the hive (PITA) or wait for symptoms of anything to appear. By the time symptoms appear you are clearly behind the 8-ball. Pesticides are the least of your concerns with this OB.


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