# 8 ft. Landscape Timber for the electric fence



## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

I just bought 15 pressure treated posts/poles to replace the old ones for my electric fence.
I think the $1.99 per one post is the bargain price. 

8 ft. Landscape Timber 
http://www.homedepot.com/buy/3-x-5-x-8-pressure-treated-landscape-timber-307251.html

Boris Romanov


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## LeonardS (Mar 13, 2012)

*Re: 8 ft. Landscape Timber for the electrick fence*

$2.57 each in Des Moines, Iowa. But that still makes for a pretty cheap post!


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## Nmace (Apr 4, 2012)

*Re: 8 ft. Landscape Timber for the electrick fence*

$3.57 here. They drop to well under $2.00 in the winter months.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

*Re: 8 ft. Landscape Timber for the electrick fence*



Boris said:


> I just bought 15 pressure treated posts
> 8 ft. Landscape Timber
> http://www.homedepot.com/buy/3-x-5-x-8-pressure-treated-landscape-timber-307251.html


$2 each is an attractive price, but be aware that these are not pressure treated in the same manner as typical 4x4 treated posts. From the Home Depot product description:


> Solid wood edging
> Treated to refusal


_Treated to refusal _isn't really a definable _standard_. Treated wood that is intended for in-ground use is generally labeled with the treatment specification. Compare this 4x4 product:
http://www.lowes.com/pd_201596-432-...=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&facetInfo=4 x 4


> Retention in Pounds per Cubic Foot0.4


Here the manufacturer is specifying a measurable standard for the wood preservative fluid injected into the wood. 

Of course, these 4x4 posts cost considerably more than the landscape timber, but they are likely to last much longer in in-ground uses.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

*Re: 8 ft. Landscape Timber for the electrick fence*

How is a better quality treatment that is a poison used to prevent bugs from eating the wood going to make a better fence post? the problem with the fence post will be moisture and wood rot. treatment does not help prevent that. whether it is a good better or best treatment does not make a difference in the rate it will rot. That is why most fence posts are redwood.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

*Re: 8 ft. Landscape Timber for the electrick fence*



Daniel Y said:


> That is why most fence posts are redwood


Not in utilitarian applications in 99.9% of the United States of America.



Daniel Y said:


> A little knowledge is a dangerous thing


I agree.


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## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

*Re: 8 ft. Landscape Timber for the electrick fence*

What animal(s) are you repelling with the fence?


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

*Re: 8 ft. Landscape Timber for the electrick fence*



Daniel Y said:


> <snip>the problem with the fence post will be moisture and wood rot. treatment does not help prevent that. whether it is a good better or best treatment does not make a difference in the rate it will rot. That is why most fence posts are redwood.


You're joking,...right?


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

*Re: 8 ft. Landscape Timber for the electrick fence*

Am I Joking? No
THis is a copy and paste from acceptable uses of pressure treated lumber. The marine use you need to understand about wood and water.

Currently, there are twelve levels of pressure treatment. These are based on the intended use of the product. This chart is courtesy the American Wood-Preserver's Association (AWPA):
Use Category Brief Description
UC1 Interior Dry
UC2 Interior Damp
UC3A Exterior Above Ground, Coated with Rapid Water Runoff
UC3B Exterior Above Ground, Uncoated or Poor Water Runoff
UC4A Ground Contact, General Use
UC4B Ground Contact, Heavy Duty
UC4C Ground Contact, Extreme Duty
UC5A Marine Use, Northern Waters (Salt or Brackish Water)
UC5B Marine Use, Central Waters (Salt or Brackish Water)
UC5C Marine Use, Southern Waters (Salt or Brackish Water)
UCFA Interior Above Ground Fire Protection
UCFB Exterior Above Ground Fire Protection

Notice all but marine use is ground contact or above. none are below ground. Common thinking is not knowledge.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

*Re: 8 ft. Landscape Timber for the electrick fence*



Daniel Y said:


> Currently, there are twelve levels of pressure treatment. These are based on the intended use of the product. This chart is courtesy the American Wood-Preserver's Association (AWPA):
> Use Category Brief Description
> UC1 Interior Dry
> UC2 Interior Damp
> ...


For reference, the website where the above clip-n-paste came from is here:
http://www.awpa.com/references/homeowner.asp

DanielY is_ seriously misunderstanding_ the ratings that he posted. The explanation of the rating yield this:








Note that UC4A (circled in pink) is appropriate for for in-ground contact such as _*fence posts*_, etc. The full document is available here:
http://www.awpa.com/standards/U1excerpt.pdf



Daniel Y said:


> Common thinking is not knowledge.


Keep going, you are providing a fine example of this concept.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

*Re: 8 ft. Landscape Timber for the electrick fence*

Notice the last line. "Low natural potential for decay or insect attack". Why, because the treatment does not prevent rotting of the wood. So again how does buying a better treatment give better protection against decay? Since treatment does not prevent decay as I said before.


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## brushmouth (Jan 17, 2010)

*Re: 8 ft. Landscape Timber for the electrick fence*



Daniel Y said:


> Am I Joking? No
> THis is a copy and paste from acceptable uses of pressure treated lumber. The marine use you need to understand about wood and water.
> 
> Currently, there are twelve levels of pressure treatment. These are based on the intended use of the product. This chart is courtesy the American Wood-Preserver's Association (AWPA):
> ...


Your correct, "Common thinking is not knowledge"...LOL 

In the midwest most small landscape timbers are not graded with a tag, so buyer beware.
Life of these will be less than those with an industry stamp or "tag", hence the higher price of regular ground contact lumber.
I suspect that none are below ground due to stated liability issues?? (my opinion only)

The centers of landscape timbers are white when cut with a chain saw, little or no treatment except on the exterior. I have landscape timber berms which are now about 6-7 years old and they may have to be replaced next summer.
Your climate is a lot less hostile than the midwest, so I would expect the growth of fungi within the wood to progress a lot slower out there with less moisture. 
Redwood is more expensive than real treated timber in most parts of the country.? 
I use the small round cheap steel posts/with plastic insulators for my bee yard, they work just fine.
Bend some can lids over the wire and coat with peanut butter to aid in training, until the bears have had a month or so to learn what those wires are about. 
If your in light soil, it also helps to moisten the soil to maintain a good ground. (Not practical for commercial folks)
I have a friend who runs a separate ground wire near the bottom as a dry weather backup. 
My yard has almost weekly visits by mom and cub and the big boar drops in now and then.
(no hive damage for about 5 years now)
Good Luck with your fence and fencers
BM


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

*Re: 8 ft. Landscape Timber for the electrick fence*



Daniel Y said:


> Notice the last line. "Low natural potential for decay or insect attack". Why, because the treatment does not prevent rotting of the wood. So again how does buying a better treatment give better protection against decay?


If you keep reading the image/link above, you will see that there are progressively higher levels of treatment available. If you feel that the _UC4A Ground Contact __General Use_, does not provide adequate protection, then the _UC4B Ground Contact, Heavy Duty_, and _UC4C Ground Contact, Extreme Duty_ offer higher levels of protection. If you insist, the marine specs offer even higher levels of treatment. 

Normal people generally just accept that 0.40 lbs per cu ft treatment as referenced in post #4 is suitable for virtually all in-ground fence post type use. It is also widely available, whereas higher treatment levels are usually offered only by specialty merchants.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

*Re: 8 ft. Landscape Timber for the electrick fence*

Several years ago I bought some "treated landscape timbers". I didn't use all of them and left some piled up in a shady area of the yard...out of sight, out of mind. A few years (less than five) later I had a use for a couple of them. Some bushes had grown up around/over them so I reached under and grabbed an end of one. I brought out about twelve inches of a rotted off piece of a timber...and this was one that basically was on top of the small pile. Conversely, I've got some 4x4 treated structural posts that were left over from a deck job that have been laying under that deck (on the ground) for a little over 20 years (I'll use them eventually<g>). They are in fine shape as are the deck posts which have been *in* the ground for the same period of time. Also, around the place I have some 4x4 treated "gate" posts that I use for different things...these posts spend a lot of time laying on the ground, in the ground, etc.,...they're about 10 years old and look good and solid to me. None of this wood has been stored "out of the elements". 

So Daniel Y, why did the "treated" landscape timbers rot so quickly while these other treated pieces of wood are still good and solid after laying around for 2 to 4 times as long as the landscape timbers? Was it because of a "better" treatment or was it that the fungi and bugs weren't as hungry in the places the better treated wood was stored? There are thousands of miles of fence rows in Alabama (and neighboring states, I'm sure) that have been there for years and years and years...built from treated fence posts.

All of the timbers and lumber I mentioned is/was treated PINE. I'd wager that close to 100% of the wooden fence posts down here are also PINE.

I haven't seen a redwood tree around here lately, though I did see some pines with their trunks painted red up to about head high...there were also hubcaps hanging from some low-growing hardwoods (a dead chicken hanging from one) and several rusting vehicles sitting on cement blocks and what use to be cement 1blocks with some mean looking dogs living in them (and a couple of goats). Those folks seemed to have a little knowledge about things but most of them seemed fairly harmless...except maybe the guy with the bad twitch in his eye and a little drool coming out the corner of his mouth that kept mumbling "redrum, redrum, redrum...". :scratch: 

Ed


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

*Re: 8 ft. Landscape Timber for the electrick fence*



Lburou said:


> What animal(s) are you repelling with the fence?


bears.

If you wish - you can see more details at my website. We already discussed this topic many times.

Boris Romanov


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

*Re: 8 ft. Landscape Timber for the electrick fence*



Rader Sidetrack said:


> $2 each is an attractive price, but be aware that these are not pressure treated in the same manner as typical 4x4 treated posts. ...


"...be aware" - Not in my case, because I always prefer to apply oil based paints for the all pressure treated lumber, even for the 4x4 treated posts for decking. Otherwise it becomes dark in a couple of years.
I tried a lot of types special stains (for the pressure treated lumber) – and I do not believe in stains any more.

In addition you should apply black tar on the bottom two feet of the fence post that enters the ground.

I hope I will show my final “product” soon.

Boris Romanov


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## Bee Bliss (Jun 9, 2010)

*Re: 8 ft. Landscape Timber for the electrick fence*

I read once that some farmers do the following to make their fence posts last. They drill a one inch hole above the soil level in a downward angle into the post. Fill the hole with vegetable oil and put a cork in the hole to seal it. Once a year the vegetable oil is replenished. The vegetable oil soaks into the wood and keeps water from rotting it. I don't know if this works, but seems interesting.


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## max2 (Dec 24, 2009)

*Re: 8 ft. Landscape Timber for the electrick fence*

"I read once that some farmers do the following to make their fence posts last."

When I grew up in Switzerland we used to char posts by simply holding them over an open fire of fruit tree prunings for a while.
The chared lower part of the post is water repellent for a good while and un-attractive to insects. The posts lasted for many years.


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## WI-beek (Jul 14, 2009)

*Re: 8 ft. Landscape Timber for the electrick fence*

I worked at a lumber yard when I was 17 for a few weeks in the summer. I got to speak with guys who treated lumber and watch them do it. They spoke freely that the lumber was not treated as long as it should have been in order for the treatment to penetrate the wood deep enough as it should. I have also spoke with many employees from menards wood plants being its home town is near me. I can assure you that production and profit almost always trump honesty and quality when it comes to wood treatments. It take lots of pressure and time for treatments to penetrate through the posts. If it takes 24 hours they are likely to do a batch every 6 hours. Why, because humans buy the cheapest and have blind faith.

Treated wood will last longer than untreated wood underground. Any experienced fence builder can testify to this. But, you likely will get what you pay for and ask professional who have been around for a while what to use. For instance, around here it is said by most people who have built decks with menards treated deck boards that you need to butt them tightly and leave no space between them because they will surly shrink when they dry (what happens when wood is treated before it has cured). If you buy more expensive decking from a supplier who experts tell you have higher quality wood you need to space the boards so there will be a gap in them for drainage of rain and debris.


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## AndrewGWU (Feb 3, 2012)

*Re: 8 ft. Landscape Timber for the electrick fence*

On a side note for those interested, looks like HD will have these for 97 cents in most stores for their Memorial Day sale

Link


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## ldh1006 (Nov 12, 2011)

*Re: 8 ft. Landscape Timber for the electrick fence*

locust post will last your life time...not treated....no chenicals.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

*Re: 8 ft. Landscape Timber for the electrick fence*

...or osage orange. Hedge as it's called further north.


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## Riverratbees (Feb 10, 2010)

*Re: 8 ft. Landscape Timber for the electrick fence*

If you are going to put them in the ground they will rot in 3 to 4 yr. You might spend more $ on fence posts but they will be there 20yr later.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

*Re: 8 ft. Landscape Timber for the electrick fence*



Intheswamp said:


> So Daniel Y, why did the "treated" landscape timbers rot so quickly while these other treated pieces of wood are still good and solid after laying around for 2 to 4 times as long as the landscape timbers? Was it because of a "better" treatment or was it that the fungi and bugs weren't as hungry in the places the better treated wood was stored?
> 
> Ed


There are actually many factors that influence how fast wood rots. type of wood. location. how often it gets wet then dry. insects etc. you may have stored those posts right on top of wood eating bugs for all I know. Being under bushes for a time also put them directly in a composting situation. wood composts. they where being stored in a bacterial bath. I would need to know details about the quality of the wood itself. where some of the posts faster growth wood with looser and punkier grain? But from what you have said I do know that treatment didn't do much for the posts under the bushes.


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## ldh1006 (Nov 12, 2011)

*Re: 8 ft. Landscape Timber for the electrick fence*

I have black locust fence post in my pasture fence that are over 50 years old and are still in excellent shape....


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

*Re: 8 ft. Landscape Timber for the electrick fence*



ldh1006 said:


> I have black locust fence post in my pasture fence that are over 50 years old and are still in excellent shape....


"Black Locust wood to last well over 50+ years without any significant decay. This makes it the perfect alternative to chemically treated lumber"
From: http://www.blacklocustlumber.com/about.htm

Unfortunately, I never saw black locust posts in my area. Therefore I think the $1.99 per pressure treated post plus roughly $1 for the oil based paint and black tar is the best alternative to me.

Boris Romanov


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

*Re: 8 ft. Landscape Timber for the electrick fence*

If you want long life it is metal. So we are talking about looks as much as cost.

Paying more you may or may not get lucky on penetration. 
My ancestors drilled rock by hand, mounted an iron rod and put a post on that.

Myself, I would just use heavy re-bar. Keeping the grass away from the base does as much as anything. Oil, tar, crankcase oil, paint, PT not so much.


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## Boris (Jul 12, 2006)

*Re: 8 ft. Landscape Timber for the electrick fence*



Saltybee said:


> If you want long life it is metal...


Wood is a good dielectric, but metal is not.
Therefore wet snow or freezing/heavy rain could make your electric fence with metall posts useless more quickly compere to the electric fence with wooden posts.

Therefore I advice forum members to follow the professional recommendations.
"How to Install an Electric Fence Around Apiaries":
...
- Install 6ft. wooden (!) posts, two (2 ) feet into the ground. They can have a slight outward lean.
...
- Screw-in post insulators should be attached to the wooden (!) posts at the proper spacing. Insulators should face toward the center of the fence.

You can see my old electric fence during the wet snow here:
http://www.beebehavior.com/beeimages/Hive_Gadgets/fance_snow.jpg


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