# Causality - CCD?



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

I second that post!


----------



## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

IAPV was quickly found to not be anywhere near as "correlated" with CCD
as was claimed in the paper published in Science. You can read about it
here:
http://bee-quick.com/reprints/claims_collapse.pdf

Needless to say, I had to bite my tounge so as to avoid saying
"I told you so", even though I had, and in detail:
http://bee-quick.com/reprints/fourth.pdf

The Evans/Chen paper itself can be read in full here:
http://www.dadant.com/documents/ChenandEvansarticlefromDec07ABJ.pdf

Note well that the initial claims were made in the very prestigious journal
"Science", while the retraction was published in the "American Bee Journal",
and there has yet to be any admission that this was a retraction, a
complete refutation of the claims made in "Science".

Whole lotta hand-waving goin' on, dontcha know. 

So, infecting bees with IAPV alone appears to be a non-goal, as the current
consensus, based upon a much wider set of samples, is that CCD colonies
are found to simultaneously have all of the following:
Nosema apis
Nosema ceranae
Kashmir Bee Virus
IAPV of one variant or another
Just to confuse matters further, researchers in Spain are saying that
they can reproduce all the symptoms of CCD with nothing more than
Nosema ceranae.

Just in case someone wants to argue about this, please understand
that none of the above is my opinion. It is the current consensus.

What do I make of all this? Well, I'm going to wait for Joe DeRisi of UCSF
to write up what he recently found. If you go back to the paper in Science,
you will find that what he said a year ago was ignored and then
ridiculed. I hope he is not again ignored, as I feel we ignore people like
Joe and Evan Skowronski (who runs one of the labs at Aberdeen Proving
Ground) at our peril. They have no need to seek "fame and fortune",
as they are already well-funded, famous in their fields, and happy.
They don't want "bee research money", as they have budgets, staff,
and resources sufficient to approach CCD as an "interesting problem".


----------



## HVH (Feb 20, 2008)

Thanks Jim for your post - I will follow your links.


----------



## Medovina (Apr 7, 2008)

*cell phones*

pardon my ignorance. I'm new to this but last year I've heard a report from England claiming that cellular signals to be the cause of CCD. Was that proven false?


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Actually the problem is cell phones. You should never let the bees have them. They get distracted talking and never get any work done.


----------



## Medovina (Apr 7, 2008)

*You're right*

Imagine the calling plan you'd need to have. 


Here is the article I was referring to: 
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/are-mobile-phones-wiping-out-our-bees-444768.html


----------



## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

> 'm new to this but last year I've heard a report from England 
> claiming that cellular signals to be the cause of CCD. 
> Was that proven false?

Yes. Completely false.

Here's the original scare story:
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/are-mobile-phones-wiping-out-our-bees-444768.html

Here's one of many debunkings of the scare story:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,477804,00.html

So, there is no problem with bees near cellphone towers, beekeepers with
cellphones and so on. 

Mike's concerns are also mostly baseless, as they really don't have much 
to say to each other, and as they are all bothers and sisters, all their
minutes are covered by one *family plan*. 

The whole idea was a joke anyway, as most beeyards are beyond the
range of cellphone signals, as beekeepers grumble. 

Strange. Back in the 1990s, I was the only beekeeper who went outside
at breaks to check my voicemail on my cellphone. Everyone else was 
coming outside for a smoke. As time went on, more beekeepers got
cellphones, and despite a complete lack of any line for any payphones
at any prior meetings, suddenly everyone had calls to make during
breaks.


----------



## high rate of speed (Jan 4, 2008)

*honeymooners*

To the moon Alice


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

>>as most beeyards are beyond the
range of cellphone signals, as beekeepers grumble. 


Ha, no doubt!


----------



## taipantoo (Nov 9, 2007)

Medovina said:


> Imagine the calling plan you'd need to have.


I've got you in my 50,000.


----------

