# Nozevit - Nosema



## Dick Allen

Nozevit has been briefly mentioned a few times on Bee-L. You can read the comments at:

http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l

type the word nozevit in the ‘Search for:’ box.


----------



## tarheit

Bee-L was the first place I've seen it. to quote Bee-L:
the latest study in Europe that I am aware of and a part of finds that the PH of the honey bee changes with Nosema. We have tested with NOZEVIT and found that it corrects the PH imbalance which allows the inner intestinal tract to regain it's elasticity and therefore inhibiting the Nosema from joining or "impaling" the inner wall. After just a short period the Nosema starts passing through the Honey Bee and the spore count drops precipitously. 

We treated the second time 10 days later and found an amazing difference in spore count. We are hesitant to claim"therapeutic" results. Our tests and on going test show in the field and in the lab an extremely effective and different approach to the Nosema situation. 

Field results in Italy, Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia, Hungary, and Austria show identical results. We have beekeepers suffering substantial,(up to 100%) never before realized losses in these countries, while those using NOZEVIT - in close proximity to those previously mentioned - are seeing little to no winter losses as of this week. 

These studies mirror the previous studies conducted by a private chemical company that has since passed from the scene because of the Bosnian war. 

​I saw at the meeting in Wooster this month that Simpsons Beekeeping Supplies also now sells it.

-Tim


----------



## BeeRay

Thank you Dick and Tim. This is good info. I would be tempted to try this product if I knew what exactly it is. The info is pretty sketchy on the actual contents.


----------



## Dick Allen

yes, the information is pretty sketchy. apparantly the stuff is used in eastern europe according to dr. joe carson who says he's the distributor for it. likely, it is not officially approved for treatment of hives in the u.s.

there are a few alaska beekeepers on beesource. maybe dr. carson is among them and can shed some more light on this stuff. while i don't know dr. carson on a personal basis, i have seen him at a local beekeeping meeting a couple of times. 

incidentally, the dr., if i'm correct, is not a medical or phd dr., he is a minister or pastor in one of the local chuches.


----------



## CSbees

Why not use Fumigilin-B. With all its benefits, curing nosema is just a side affect. "A pancea for nosema"


----------



## LSPender

*Why use antibiotic*



CSbees said:


> Why not use Fumigilin-B. With all its benefits, curing nosema is just a side affect. "A pancea for nosema"


Do you need to use an antibiotic on everything ?

Would be nice to have other options, hope this product pans out.

What do you mean by benifits of Fum-B ?

Note. myself and other beeks, that have used Fumigilin-B get a side effect, chalk brood. The Fum-B does not get rid of nosema, only controls growth in bee gut. Solve one problem, get another.


Larry


----------



## Grant

Dick Allen said:


> yes, incidentally, the dr., if i'm correct, is not a medical or phd dr., he is a minister or pastor in one of the local chuches.


Reminds me of a mother who introduced her son, a Ph.D., and said, "Yes, this is my son the doctor, but not the kind that helps people."

"Dr." Grant, D. Min.


----------



## mbholl

LSPender said:


> Note. myself and other beeks, that have used Fumigilin-B get a side effect, chalk brood. The Fum-B does not get rid of nosema, only controls growth in bee gut. Solve one problem, get another.
> 
> 
> Larry


Are you saying that you used Fumigilin-B to treat nosema, and THEN ended up with chalkbrood?? I thought I had read that the presence of chalkbrood could be an indicator of nosema?

(I have appreciated out open you have been with your posts and your personal experiences.)


----------



## NW IN Beekeeper

[to quote Bee-L: 

the latest study in Europe that I am aware of and a part of finds that the PH of the honey bee changes with Nosema. We have tested with NOZEVIT and found that it corrects the PH imbalance which allows the inner intestinal tract to regain it's elasticity and therefore inhibiting the Nosema from joining or "impaling" the inner wall. After just a short period the Nosema starts passing through the Honey Bee and the spore count drops precipitously.]

This is not an argument against you Tim, I understand you were repeating a post from elsewhere. But what I understand is: 

Adjusting pH alone is not enough to prevent infection. 
This has been proven in a couple studies using vinegar (acetic acid) in feed. 
There was no improvement in the prevention of the disease. 

Fum.B. inhibits the digestive juices that rupture the spores. 
Short of attacking the spore directly, there is no better way. 
Spores can be attacked directly by acids or essential oils in proper doses.

I am highly suspect that the studies may appear to improve health, but are flawed because ANY feeding will increase gut motility and pass spores quicker. This results in fewer spores per portion of feces and makes the infection look like it is improved or cured. But likely, a low level infection remains. A low level infection will still serious impact a queen laying capability and still be a reservoir for infection later. 

The same results can had by feeding syrup and pollen supplements. Many will tell you that they see no signs of disease or that assume they are cured, but I assure you a low level infection remains. Spores can remain active in live or dead bees for 2 years. Any real treatment has to have a protocol for no less than that time period. 

Fum.B. is no better. It "cures" nosema only from season to season. But there is a lull in the infection over the summer (when we can not feed Fum.B.). The infecting spores can remain in a proximity that allow for reinfection. This is why it is important to treat in a manner that actually destroys the spore itself. There are natural occurring substances that are not illegal to have residual in honey and can continue to work over the summer to kill the spore.


----------



## Michael Bush

>There are natural occurring substances that are not illegal to have residual in honey and can continue to work over the summer to kill the spore.

And those are...?


----------



## BeeRay

*Vita Feed Gold*



NW IN Beekeeper said:


> [to quote Bee-L:
> 
> "I am highly suspect that the studies may appear to improve health, but are flawed because ANY feeding will increase gut motility and pass spores quicker. "
> 
> I had this same thought when I saw Vita Feed Gold: http://www.vita-europe.com/index.htm
> 
> Perhaps it's just a feeding stimulant.


----------



## Tim Hall

NW IN Beekeeper said:


> Adjusting pH alone is not enough to prevent infection.
> This has been proven in a couple studies using vinegar (acetic acid) in feed.
> There was no improvement in the prevention of the disease.


I just posted about this on a different thread: http://beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=216617&page=3 post #26.

I realize that pH alone may not be the answer, but acetic acid and vinegar are two different things. Even though they may have the same inherent pH they do not necessarily have the same pH-altering effect on physiology when consumed. Whole foods and isolated active ingredients don't meet the body the same way. This study does not prove what you're saying, it simply proves acetic acid alone doesn't help


----------



## Dick Allen

I guess the questions that are begging to be asked is: What Studies and done by Whom?!?!


----------



## Tim Hall

"Acidic Food & Nosema Disease"


----------



## Dr. Carson

*Nozevit Reply*

Nozevit is in use in the U. S. and Canada by many Bee Keepers and they are pleased with the results. I do not know any of the previous post authors; none have seen or used Nozevit and therefore have no personal experience with it. We are always happy to answer any questions concerning Nozevit. Personal remarks or innuendo are not productive. Nozevit is a natural tree bark extract that has indeed been in use as a traditional recipe for many, many years in Central Europe. We do not claim Nozevit as a cure all for any honey bee malady, condition, or disease. We can share customers personal experiences and testimonies with the product. Nozevit is a standardized 20% oak tree bark (specific to a region in Europe) and 80% water extract - there are no chemicals used in the extraction process which is preformed in Zagreb, Croatia. Many have tested Salicin (obviously from the bark of the Willow) which is not found in Nozevit, to be ineffective. I believe there are going to be many new discoveries, but not necessarily new products, coming forth in the near future which will be of great benefit to bee keepers around the world, of which in my opinion, Nozevit is one. 

As to my education, qualifications, and religious convictions - a requirement I was unaware of on this forum - to elucidate would not change Nozevit as I am not the bee keeper who originally came up with the recipe (decades old) nor the scientist who standardized the product. I am one who was an Engineering Consultant (P. E. and M. E.) for many years throughout many parts of the world. I completed my student teaching in the late 70's, did extensive work in Anthropology, Archeology, Sociology, among other disciplines. I have attended 11 colleges and universities in addition to many private corporate schools. I was certified and qualified with three distinct medical organizations in the field of emergency medical training and am a certified Family Counselor. I make my living as a Bee Keeper today and travel the world extensively looking for ideas, answers, and products that might just have an impact on the bee keeping world. Having traveled to many parts of South East Asia, Western, Central, and Easter Europe, Scandinavia, UK, and other parts of the world, I realize more each day that there is much to learn and much out there to be shared. I do not know it all and hesitate to criticize, condemn or complain about anyones products, procedures, or positions concerning their personal bee keeping habits. My religious convictions are mine. 

A vituperative runaway rant unbridled by reason or factuality accomplishes nothing.

Luke 6:39 And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?


----------



## peggjam

"But there is a lull in the infection over the summer (when we can not feed Fum.B.). The infecting spores can remain in a proximity that allow for reinfection. This is why it is important to treat in a manner that actually destroys the spore itself. There are natural occurring substances that are not illegal to have residual in honey and can continue to work over the summer to kill the spore."

There is *no* lull when dealing with nosema ceranae. It is active year round, which is what makes it so deadly.


----------



## Michael Bush

>"Acidic Food & Nosema Disease"

Interesting. Since sugar syrup is alkali and honey is acidic and Nosema does better in an alkali environment...


----------



## notaclue

Again my ignorance shows through.

Is nectar acidic or alkali or does it depend on the source?

Or has it never been studied?

Is stored sugar syrup still alkali in the comb?

If it is, then wouldn't it be best to alter the ph of sugar syrup to a more acidic state?


----------



## Randy Oliver

Hi Dick,

This thread was brought to my attention by a friend.

Nosevit is an extract of the bark of a species of oak.
I do not know the mode of action, but in general, the tannins in oak barks denature proteins, which is why they are used to "tan" skins into leather. Placing a tea bag on a canker sore does the same thing.

Perhaps the tanning action toughens the bee gut???

Nozevit is used at a very low concentration, so I have no idea if it is strong enough to do so.

In any case, I am trialling the product currently (in fact, am doing the third application today). Will report results soon.

Randy Oliver


----------



## Keith Benson

Dr. Carson said:


> As to my education, qualifications, and religious convictions - a requirement I was unaware of on this forum


There is no such requirement. When you use the term Dr. it can be confusing as the average american associates the title with an MD at first glance. Oh they know there are many kinds of Doctor, but initially the assumption will be that the bearer of the title is an MD. Some people with non-medical doctorates use the title socially (i.e. away from the workplace) more often than in the past.

I think it came up simply because we are talking about what would be described as a treatment and a medication. People listening in might wonder if the person promoting said product has a background that would lend some expertise to their assertions, or if they are merely relating their anecdotal experience. No harm, no foul.



> A vituperative runaway rant unbridled by reason or factuality accomplishes nothing.


I like it!


----------



## BeeRay

*Nozevit*

Nozevit is now distributed by Dadant: http://www.dadant.com/catalog/


----------



## BEES4U

*A. apis grows best in slightly chilled larvae*

http://www.hgsc.bcm.tmc.edu/projects/microbial/documents/review_Chalkb.pdf

“Larvae ingest spores of A. apis with their food. The spores germinate in the lumen of the gut, probably
activated by CO2 from the tissues (Heath and Gaze, 1987), and the mycelium begins to grow there,
particularly at the hind end (Maurizio, 1934). The mycelium then penetrates the gut wall and eventually
breaks out of the hind end of the larva’s body, often leaving the head unaffected. When they occur,
fruiting bodies form on the outside of the dead larvae.
A. apis grows best in slightly chilled larvae as its optimal temperature for growth and formation of
fruiting bodies is about 30oC (Maurizio, 1934). Experiments have shown that brood is most susceptible
when chilled immediately after it has been capped (Bailey, 1967). The chilling need be only a slight
reduction of temperature, from the normal 35 oC , for a few hours; and it can easily occur, even in warm
climates, in colonies that temporarily have insufficient adult bees to incubate their brood adequately.
Larvae are most likely to be chilled in early summer when colonies are growing, and drone larvae often
suffer most as they are generally on the periphery of brood nests. The smallest colonies are at the greatest
risk of becoming chilled because they have the lowest capacity for heat and relatively large surface areas.
Heath (1982a, b), in extensive reviews, quotes several observations that chalkbrood is aggravated when
colonies are rapidly expanding in spring, i.e. when the ratio of brood to adult bees is high, or when it is
increased experimentally; and that very small colonies used for mating virgin queens or in observation
hives are very susceptible. Koenig et al. (1987) also noted that decreasing the ratio of adult bees to brood
aggravated chalkbrood; and Pederson (1976) showed that artificially heating hives in spring diminished
the incidence of the disease. Other non-lethal factors, such a slight infections by viruses or bacteria, or
poisoning, or inadequate food from disease nurse bees may well cause the same effect as chilling by
slowing the rate of development of larvae” (Bailey and Ball, 1991).
Regards,
Ernie


----------



## BEES4U

*Nosevit is a traditional bark extract from Central Europe*

Nosevit is a traditional bark extract from Central Europe. Dr. Joe Carmen uses it successfully to winter bees in Alaska! Joe says that it is the only product used in Croatia, Bosnia, Slovenia, Serbia and other close countries. Photo courtesy Joe Carson.

Ernie


----------



## Michael Bush

>"I am highly suspect that the studies may appear to improve health, but are flawed because ANY feeding will increase gut motility and pass spores quicker. "

I agree but this begs the question that if simply feeding will clear up Nosema, why do we feel the need to use a chemical known to cause birth defects and outlawed in most of the civilized world, to cure something that can be cured by simply feeding?

Tannic acid (tannin) is C76H52O46 (roughly with some variontions of Phenols) which is a six carbon carboxylic acid. THis would, of course, increase the pH in the gut as it is an organic acid.


----------



## BEES4U

*A recent study by Eischen (2008) indicates*

Nutrition and Stress

Studies by Hirschfelder (1964) and Kleinschmidt (1988a) clearly demonstrated that bees well fed with pollen live far longer than nutritionally stressed bees, even if infested with nosema. A recent study by Eischen (2008) indicates that feeding pollen supplement during winter may be as effective as fumagillin treatment for promoting health of colonies with light infections! (Note, however, that the Spanish researchers do not feel that there is a nutritional connection with N. ceranae (A. Meana, pers comm)).



<!--[if !supportLists]-->1. <!--[endif]-->Make sure that your colonies have adequate pollen or protein supplement in fall, and at all times when broodrearing.

<!--[if !supportLists]-->2. <!--[endif]-->Do not allow colonies to run short on honey stores. Hungry colonies are stressed, have trouble maintaining broodnest temperatures, and are forced to forage in unfavorable weather.

Food for thought: I wonder if the massive collapses of French colonies in sunflowers (previously blamed on imidicloprid) could have been the result of nutritional stress due to the poor amino acid balance of sunflower pollen coupled with N. ceranae infection?

Ernie


----------



## BEES4U

*The "Nosema Twins" - Part 5 Alternative Treatments*

The "Nosema Twins" - Part 5 Alternative Treatments 

© Randy Oliver

The more I learn about CCD and other colony maladies, the more I am impressed by the fact that honey bees are currently dealing with a complex of novel parasites, pathogens, vectors, stresses, and immunosuppressants. The nutrition/parasite/virus complex appears to me to be where the main action is, and viruses seem to be changing the rules of the game! (More on this in a later article). Unfortunately, at present, there isn't much we can directly do about viruses ; but what we can do is feed our bees well, and take action against the parasites.
Healthy bees generally handle viruses fairly well until something starts punching holes through their integument. And that's just what mites and nosema do—one pierces the skin, the other perforates the gut. *As I speak to beekeepers who are successful at bringing strong colonies into the almonds, a common thread is that they've been diligent at keeping mite and nosema levels down—in the case of mites, way down. Many also swear by heavy feeding to supplement natural forage.*
I've noticed that today's successful beekeeper tends to be smart, diligent, hardworking, and willing to invest time and money into good bee husbandry.

Ernie


----------



## Pooh

Michael Bush said:


> ...why do we feel the need to use a chemical known to cause birth defects and outlawed in most of the civilized world, to cure something that can be cured by simply feeding?


Is the chemical you are refering to Nosevit? What countries have banned it and who reported birth defects? 

I know tea/ wine have a lot of tannins in them which is one of the factors listed for making them healthy.


----------



## Michael Bush

>Is the chemical you are refering to Nosevit?

No. It's Fumidil or Fumigillan.

> What countries have banned it

The European Union, Australia and New Zealand.

> and who reported birth defects?

Fumagilin is known to block blood vessel formation by binding to an enzyme called methionine aminopeptidase. Targeted gene disruption of methionine aminopeptidase 2 results in an embryonic gastrulation defect and endothelial cell growth arrest. For this reason new research is experimenting with it to kill tumors as they normally develop an abundant blood supply and Fumagilin interferes with that development.

Try googling on any of the above terms such as "methionine aminopeptidase" and see what you find.


----------



## high rate of speed

Very well said Ernie,less stressed bees is the best cure,along with proper treatments.


----------



## allrawpaul

Has anyone used it yet? Where did you buy it?


----------



## danno1800

*I used it this year*

It is too soon to know if it worked. I put it in the Fall syrup. -Danno


----------



## CPeavey

*Nozevit*

So first post here. 
Grettings all. 
I joined to get more info on nozevit. I heared from a beekeeper in the central valley california that after trying the product, no change in spore counts were detected. 

However, I do not know what levels he used or how many treatments and with what method. So I decided to Get some for myself and try it. 

I plan on finding a way to mix a spray so that each hive gets .83ml of nozivit suspenned in the light suryp/water and again in 10 days. From what I can find this is the dosage I want to try. 

Is this correct? I have no bottle with directions to look at, just the samples. 



Does Nozevit react with the sugar when suspended in solution? 

Also I vaugely remeber how to extract spores.
Can anyone direct me to a thread or site that covers at home detection?

It was something like 20 bees in a morter and pestol with distilled water and after a good smash into and through cheesecloth, discard parts and spin solution. then i am lost.... do the spores sink to the bottom or float on top. I have a decent seicentific scope so it would be a shame to send out for tests.
My dad is a Beekeeper in Central Cali and one of his usual winter spots in the south bay seem to have CCD. So any advice critizisim or down right truith will be greatly appricated...

Ok well I dug a bit more and found link to extract spores. I post it so it is here on the thread. 
http://www.wildwoodlabs.com/viewer.php?article_id=84


Any info on Nozevit would still be great.. Charles peavey.


----------



## Dr. Carson

*Nozevit*

"Does Nozevit react with the sugar when suspended in solution? "

No, Nozevit does not react with the sugar syrup. Also, as long as your sugar or HFCS solution is viable - not fermented - Nozevit is just fine.

There is a man you might contact for his experiences with Nozevit, which is quite extensive.

Marshall Anderson - Montana Pollinators


Joe Carson


----------



## Keith Jarrett

Dr. Carson;388277
There is a man you might contact for his experiences with Nozevit said:


> Dr. JC, Much thanks for the continued support of our questions with Nozevit in patties. You stand behind your product & go out of your way to help guide us through this new process.
> 
> THANKS AGAIN, Keith


----------



## Nick Noyes

Is anyone still using this? 
If so what kind of results are you seeing?
How was it applied (drizzle,fed in syrup, protein patties)?


----------



## TodesSchatten

I put in the syrup I fed the nucs I installed... I forgot to do a PH test on the syrup (for my record keeping) but the syrup tasted good the nuc that was in bad shape (2-3 cups of dead bees at the bottom and almost no supplies) went for the feed in big way

I decided to use Nozevit because the nucs were going to have been stacked on a trailer for a week or more highly stressed from the days of bouncing on roads, temperature changes from coming north, in close proximity of hives of unknown health, using up of stores, and the re-hiving by a clumsy noob. I wanted to give the girls a better chance of a strong recovery and build up after all that.

how well will this work, I hope to never know. if it works I'll have healthy strong colones in the next couple of weeks, but the same is true if they were fine, but "The Beekeepers Quarterly" has a good article on the product


----------

