# Question for Michael Bush - Top Entrance on Top Bar Hive



## Top Bar (Jan 9, 2014)

Michael,

I noticed that you recommend a top entrance on your hives. I am starting a build using the golden mean plans from backyardhive.com. I have already been convinced to build them much longer - 48 inches. The plans call for a 1/2 inch entrance at the bottom front of the hive. 

My question is how would you put a top entrance on this hive? Would you just cut a 1/2 inch at the top of the front board? Here is a rough drawing of what I am talking about.









If so, would you narrow it at all or leave it the full length minus the side boards? 

Would the roof of the hive just hang above it?

Thanks!


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

If your end is only as tall as your sides and if you don't have a telescopic cover, then you just leave the gap at the front of the hive where you stop putting in bars and that is the entrance. If you have something more complicated you may need to do something more complicated.


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## KPeacock (Jan 29, 2013)

Michael Bush said:


> If you have something more complicated you may need to do something more complicated.


Ha haa...love it!


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## Top Bar (Jan 9, 2014)

Michael Bush said:


> If your end is only as tall as your sides and if you don't have a telescopic cover, then you just leave the gap at the front of the hive where you stop putting in bars and that is the entrance. If you have something more complicated you may need to do something more complicated.


Thanks! So if you are leaving an opening on the top horizontal surface of the hive, how do you keep rain and snow out of the hive?


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

The "gap" or space that Michael refers to is _*under *_the top cover. Photos are available at his TBH page:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beestopbarhives.htm

One of those showing the entrance arrangement ...


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## Top Bar (Jan 9, 2014)

OK, I get it now. You leave a gap between the front wall and the first bar, and then you prop the front end of the top cover/roof up. I misunderstood how this was working. I thought he was saying to just slide the top cover back leaving the gap open to the sky. 

This makes a lot of sense to me as this would also create an angle for rain to flow off of the top cover. I was wondering how I was going to do this anyway to keep rain from pooling up on the top cover. 2 birds 1 stone, less work!!!  

Does this ever create a problem with anything getting in above the bars along that gap or is that a non-issue?

Also, does that lid just lay flat on top (apart from the angle at the front)? If so, how do you keep it secure? I have strong winds. 

Thanks!


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>OK, I get it now. You leave a gap between the front wall and the first bar, and then you prop the front end of the top cover/roof up.

No. It's already "propped up" by the top bars that are sitting on the sides of the hive.

> I misunderstood how this was working. I thought he was saying to just slide the top cover back leaving the gap open to the sky. 

That works too as long as the bottom is set up to drain. I have done it with no issues. But that is not what I am describing.

>This makes a lot of sense to me as this would also create an angle for rain to flow off of the top cover. I was wondering how I was going to do this anyway to keep rain from pooling up on the top cover. 2 birds 1 stone, less work!!! 

No, it's just flat, but it's one piece of wood. The water runs off because it has no where to go.

>Does this ever create a problem with anything getting in above the bars along that gap or is that a non-issue?

The only gap I have is because my cover is warped, but if it was not warped I might add a spacer front and back to make a gap for heat issues, not to make a gap for the entrance as that is already there. If there is only a small gap between the cover and the top bars, the little ants that move their brood around move into that gap. They don't really hurt anything, but the bees get excited if I open the top and a lot of ants come running in. If there is a large gap there are less issues sometimes a spider moves in. If it's more then 3/4" paper wasps might move in.

>Also, does that lid just lay flat on top (apart from the angle at the front)? If so, how do you keep it secure? I have strong winds. 

The cover lays flat on the top bars (no angle at the front), unless you prop it to make some air gap for heat, and it has bricks on it. I have very strong winds as well, which is why the top bar hive is on the ground. When I had it up on legs it would blow over.

If you look at my pictures, the one with the cover pulled back is just to show you how the gap works. Normally the cover is flush with the front of the hive as well as the back and sides. Overhangs just catch the wind, increasing the odds of the cover blowing off and cause more rain to blow in. Not that it matters that much. The bars are all popolized and wouldn't leak between them anyway.


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## Top Bar (Jan 9, 2014)

OK, so I didn't understand at all! :scratch: 

So the lid is just a flat piece of plywood that lays on top of the bars. It is flush with all 4 sides of the hive. Because there is a gap between the first bar and the front of the hive, there is a small gap there for the bees. 

I am a visual person, so here is what I came up with. Am I getting close now?


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## JakeDatc (Apr 19, 2010)

you got it.


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## Top Bar (Jan 9, 2014)

YES! :applause:

Thanks for taking time out for the kid at the back of the class! 

I have had these other plans on the brain for so long, I wasn't "seeing" it. 

So, I think I will make a franken-hive between the golden mean and this design. Same size sides, angles, and top bars, but change to the top entrance, flat plywood lid, and rectangular front and back sides instead of the angled pieces I was trying to cut. 

Much easier, and less hassle. I do still want to put the window in for observation.


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## JakeDatc (Apr 19, 2010)

this is how i made my window. i used plexiglass but had a problem with warping so i'd probably use real glass next time. 










inset glass so the inside is smooth.


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## Top Bar (Jan 9, 2014)

Looks nice! That glass is similar to what I am planning. 

I like the looks of the tapered ends, but I think my hive will be more stable with the squared off ends providing stabilization.


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## JakeDatc (Apr 19, 2010)

Yea, either way is fine. ours is drilled to a beefy frame so it's not going anywhere. if i was going to do anything other than that i'd like the square end too. 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v115/Socjake/309363_578433913245_101360875_n_zps49e2ce56.jpg


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## Top Bar (Jan 9, 2014)

Nice setup! 

I am planning on sitting mine on a platform of 2 concrete blocks on each end. That way they will be at a good height not to have to bend over whenever I am working with them. 

The design changes discussed above just saved me a lot of time and frustration. Other than the windows, I could have knocked these out in not time the other day when I was trying to figure out the angles on the end pieces.


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## chr157y (Feb 14, 2013)

I have top entrances based on the recommendation of Michael. I used 3 each 3/4" holes accross the top. In winter, I close 2 up with silicone wine corks and the 3rd gets covered in harward cloth. Working prefectly so far.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I am a visual person, so here is what I came up with. Am I getting close now? 

I like your picture. If it just has a dotted line to show the inside of the end and maybe a dotted arrow showing the way in it would be perfect. I wish I had a good diagram for my web site.


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## Top Bar (Jan 9, 2014)

Hows this? Feel free to use it. I just did this in Paint. I know someone with access to a better program (and artistic talent) could do a much better job, but if you like it, you can use it.

I can also email you the original file.


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## rmcpb (Aug 15, 2012)

Might be worth considering having the lid a bit wider and longer than the hive to allow a bit of an overhang. Better weatherproofing.


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## SteveStevenson (Feb 14, 2014)

chr157y said:


> I have top entrances based on the recommendation of Michael. I used 3 each 3/4" holes accross the top. In winter, I close 2 up with silicone wine corks and the 3rd gets covered in harward cloth. Working prefectly so far.


Christy, are bees able to get out thru the hardware cloth or is there another entrance? SteveStevenson


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## tommysnare (Jan 30, 2013)

JakeDatc said:


> this is how i made my window. i used plexiglass but had a problem with warping so i'd probably use real glass next time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ur better off having the warped plexi. Try using a heavier plexi next time. But, with my eerie nice....glass gets very hot and very cold. I had to rip out glass in the one I put a window in and put heavy plexi in it.


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## Woodchip (May 29, 2013)

A question for those using plexiglass instead of glass ….. what do you find (or estimate) the life of your plexiglass to be? I would think when you need to cut and scrape any attached comb you would scratch the soft plexiglass. Over time, the scratches and scrapes add up reducing the viewing quality don't they? Let me know what your experiences are or have been with the plexi versus glass to help me decide which way to go.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Hows this? 

Perfect.

>Feel free to use it. 

Thanks.

>I can also email you the original file. 

That would be good.

>A question for those using plexiglass instead of glass ….. what do you find (or estimate) the life of your plexiglass to be?

It's probably worth using glass if you plan to scrape it off. If you have plexiglass I would clean it with mineral oil (the laxitive type which has no smell) so you don't scratch it.


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## Top Bar (Jan 9, 2014)

Files Sent. Thanks!


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## Bawbby (Mar 16, 2014)

What is the distance from the inside of the end piece to the first bar? I assume the first bar will be brood. Will it be any different than the following brood combs?


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## Silverbackotter (Feb 23, 2013)

Bawbby said:


> What is the distance from the inside of the end piece to the first bar? I assume the first bar will be brood. Will it be any different than the following brood combs?


I found over half of my six hives from last year went 1-2 bars back from the end entrance before they would build comb. And would only fill up the front when I shuffled comb around. So distance may be relative. Small enough to defend.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>What is the distance from the inside of the end piece to the first bar? 

Whatever is left over for space, but if it's less than 1/2" I would remove a bar and make it 2". Bars swell in the humidity and shrink when it dries up. You don't want the bars to swell and close the entrance. So I would say somwhere between 1/2" and 2". You can make a special bar for the end that fills all the space and then cut a notch in it for the entrance if you want a reducer. I've never done it, but it could be helpful...


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## Kathyk (Jul 23, 2014)

Sorry if this thread is too old....
How do you keep mice out of this top entrance?


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## guadamo1 (Mar 21, 2015)

I would think they would have a hard time climbing up a flat verticle surface to the top but I might be wrong.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>How do you keep mice out of this top entrance?

I've never had mice get in a live colony with this system, but they will move in if the colony dies. I think climbing up and over seems to discourage the mice when there are bees to worry about. But you could put a mouse guard of 1/4" hardware cloth on easily enough if you want to cut it and bend an "L" to fit in the gap, if you like.


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## EvanS (Feb 27, 2015)

Michael, do you leave the same opening year round, or do you use some type of entrance reducer in the winter to help keep the hive warm?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I leave the same opening. Maybe I should make an end bar that is a reducer... but I never have.


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## Kathyk (Jul 23, 2014)

Don't the bees have a hard time cleaning out the hive of dead bees with this high opening?


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## Yunzow (Mar 16, 2017)

I did just make a special bar with a notch in it!



Michael Bush said:


> >What is the distance from the inside of the end piece to the first bar?
> 
> Whatever is left over for space, but if it's less than 1/2" I would remove a bar and make it 2". Bars swell in the humidity and shrink when it dries up. You don't want the bars to swell and close the entrance. So I would say somwhere between 1/2" and 2". You can make a special bar for the end that fills all the space and then cut a notch in it for the entrance if you want a reducer. I've never done it, but it could be helpful...


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