# Africa switching to Lang hives? Bad PR for the TBHs!



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

MrGreenThumb said:


> http://extramile.narod.ru/html/Hon_prod.html
> 
> Looks like, least according to this artical, that TBHs are bad for the bees and honey production. Maybe the people using the hives do not know how to work with them?


Now why would you ask that question? Maybe they know something through experience that others don't.

MrGreenThumb, do you know why the Kenya Top Bar Hive was invented and from what materials the first ones were made?


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## MrGreenThumb (Apr 22, 2007)

I do not understand what your getting at?????? I thought it was a good artical and thought others might want to read it also. Maybe TBHs are not so great?? Maybe those wanting to change to Lang hives do not know how to work a TBH?? Heck...just thought it was very interesting....







sqkcrk said:


> Now why would you ask that question? Maybe they know something through experience that others don't.
> 
> MrGreenThumb, do you know why the Kenya Top Bar Hive was invented and from what materials the first ones were made?


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

I think the article clearly states why the lang is being chosen over the tbh. Whats to argue about?

Let me know....so I can join in! 

Right now I'm just confused.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Maybe the people using the hives do not know how to work with them?

It's typical Western technological snobbery. The Top Bar Hive was reinvinted for Africa by people looking for appropriate technology. It was invented somewhere in antiquity by the Greeks.


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## stangardener (Mar 8, 2005)

i can't imagine hot bees being easier to work in a lang. i can imagine some one converting their operation if some one else wanted to "give" them a bunch of equipment.
hey i did that this year when i cleaned out an old barn with two small truck and trailer loads of equipment and mann lake had budget frames for $.25


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I'm sure that if I need correcting it will happen, but my understanding of where the idea for the "modern" TBH came from was from the needs of "Third World" Africans who couldn't afford the materials necassary to build a Langstroth type hive. So they used what they had at hand, steel drums cut in half length wise and slats of wood from wooden pallets and then the whole thing was covered w/ sheet metal or something less valuable. 

From what I heard, 20 years ago, the Peace Corp had something to do with this idea.

Maybe the folks in the article don't know how to use TBHs, but I wouldn't have jumped to that conclusion. Reference Michael Bush's post. Don't get too bent out of shape MrGreenThumb, no biggy.


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## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

Anyone who wishes can speak with Ann Harmon, Bob Cole, or one of the
many other beekeepers who volunteer to travel abroad and provide
technical assistance to beekeepers in less-modern countries under the
USAID and UN VITA programs.

The story here is typical - the beekeepers don't pollinate, but instead,
sell honey, which provides a cash income. Increasing yields means
more cash, and a better life. The basic concept of re-using drawn
comb would increase honey harvests, and the concept of "supering"
hives would increase them even more. 

TBHs were widely promoted as superior to more primitive approaches,
such as log hives, by well-meaning "Alternative Technology" advocates,
but the entire concept of "Alternative Technology" is a way of thinking
that those in the "3rd World" don't deserve the same infrastructure
that we take for granted.

In Iran, the slow change from "traditional hives" to "super hives"
(Langstroths, capable of being supered) is ongoing, but may take 
another generation to complete. Study after study has been done 
by the Iranian agriculture folks, and there is just no comparison.
Despite the evidence, beekeepers are (no big surprise) slow 
to adopt new methods and technologies.

The extra cost of the more complex Langstroth gear is easy to
justify, as the woodenware is paid for and a larger profit is
made *with the first harvest*. The "tooling" required to
make Langstroth gear is just as easy to "export" as the tooling
required to make TBHs. Amazing though it may seem, table saws
and skill in woodworking exist outside the USA, and local in-country
woodenware is a no-brainer to provision.

I know about Iran because they are yet another country that
imports Bee-Quick The various "embargos" against Iran have never
included agriculture.


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## Church (May 31, 2007)

*Any idiot can write an article*

From the article:

*At present the Kenya Top Bar is used by most Ghanaian beekeepers; at harvest time this design is very destructive to comb production and very disruptive to the brood colony, which in turn makes beekeeping a relatively dangerous and uncomfortable job/pastime.*

This proves that any idiot can write an article. And yes, It shows that the people probably dont know how to work TBHs effectively.


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## buckbee (Dec 2, 2004)

By exporting Langs to people who don't have the appropriate timber cutting machinery to build them themselves sets up the same kind of dependency that the GM corporations create when they 'persuade' a poor country's farmers to adopt a technology they neither need nor can afford. 
Properly managed TBHs are perfectly suited to places where people need a simple method of beekeeping that does not require huge expenditure of either cash or energy to maintain the operation. To run a beekeeping operation with TBHs is simplicity itself - all management and harvesting can be done using simple tools and basic equipment, like a knife and a bucket. Compare this to the relatively huge investment in stainless steel and electricity required by a beekeeping setup based on Langstroth hives: I don't need to itemize it here. 
If this kind of cultural imperialism continues, we will all be able to watch as African bees begin to suffer from the same pattern of disease and disappearance as those in the West did 100 years ago.
It is depressing how few beekeepers - of all people - seem to grasp the concept of sustainability.


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## MrGreenThumb (Apr 22, 2007)

Why is it that when using Lang hives others seem to think it will cost more to harvest honey from them? It would just be as easy to cut comb from a Lang hive with a knife and and place the comb in a bucket. Also, the cost of materials, for Langs, would more then pay for itself with the extra honey harvested.

If feel that a person can build a TBH and a Lang 'style' hive cheaply and manage the hives with the same attention to detail and care for the bees and get great honey

But to say the TBH is more 'natural' and easy for the bees is just an opinion...IMHO. 

My best hives, all handmade using no power tools, are those that are modeled after the Lang hive with a few personal touches...no bought foundation, smaller hive bodies and have a nice appearence) And not cost a ton to make....









buckbee said:


> By exporting Langs to people who don't have the appropriate timber cutting machinery to build them themselves sets up the same kind of dependency that the GM corporations create when they 'persuade' a poor country's farmers to adopt a technology they neither need nor can afford.
> Properly managed TBHs are perfectly suited to places where people need a simple method of beekeeping that does not require huge expenditure of either cash or energy to maintain the operation. To run a beekeeping operation with TBHs is simplicity itself - all management and harvesting can be done using simple tools and basic equipment, like a knife and a bucket. Compare this to the relatively huge investment in stainless steel and electricity required by a beekeeping setup based on Langstroth hives: I don't need to itemize it here.
> If this kind of cultural imperialism continues, we will all be able to watch as African bees begin to suffer from the same pattern of disease and disappearance as those in the West did 100 years ago.
> It is depressing how few beekeepers - of all people - seem to grasp the concept of sustainability.


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## Tomas (Jun 10, 2005)

*Honduras perspective on tbhs/Langs*

My gut feeling is that this organization doesn’t really know what it’s doing or is getting one sided/bad advise from someone.

I’m looking at this from a development standpoint and it doesn’t seem to add up in some ways (To me at least. Have to remember that opinions vary widely among us as to what works and what doesn’t in beekeeping). I live in Honduras, work with Africanized bees and have seen many beekeeping projects by development agencies and organizations such as this one. I know Honduras is not Ghana but it is also a third world country. If economic/social conditions can be tough in Honduras, I think it is a safe bet that they are even tougher in Ghana.

If this organization’s goal is to present an option and teach those “dedicated” beekeepers who want to move up to the Langstroth system, that’s fine and good. The Langstroth hive does have lots of advantages. It works well (obviously) and you can get a lot of honey. I can’t argue with that.

If their goal is to replace the tbh system with something “better,” then they are off track. We’re talking about Africa here. For most people in a developing country the Langstroth hive may not be the best option. Langstroth might be good for some but probably not the majority. What Buckbee says is pretty much true in my opinion.

Here’s the deal with the these type of projects in Honduras. Langstroth equipment is very expensive for the average Honduran. If you want to buy the minimum equipment for one hive (three boxes, frames, foundation, cover, and bottom from one of the beekeeping cooperatives) it will cost the average laborer about 23 days of wages. Then you need to add in an extractor and the other paraphernalia if you want to use it like you should. Do they have extra money to invest? Not usually. They don’t even make enough to daily put decent food on the table or invest in their children’s education. This situation can also be extended many times to the middle class. Want to get a loan? 30 or 35 percent interest is common at the savings and loan cooperatives that are most accessible to the common people. Normal banks often don’t like these types of projects. Make the boxes yourself? Most people don’t have their own table saws. It’s a big job to make this stuff (and keep the measurements accurate) with hand tools. Go to a carpentry shop? The carpentry shops that do have the power equipment (and they are common) charge hefty prices also, usually the same, if not more, than the beekeeping cooperative (not set up for mass production). And usually they don’t understand the idea around how the Lang boxes are suppose to work (They’re not beekeepers. Change a measurement a bit and you have problems). Even many beekeepers may not fully understand the reason for keeping measurements exact and why they are the way that they are in a Lang box.

The costs for setting up a simple top bar system is much cheaper. For what I would invest in one of the Langstroth hives I could have at least 10 top bar hives, if not double that (depending on what materials I’m going to use).

As far as needing a hive that can be moved, most people here set up permanent apiaries. Even the people who do need pollination (the melon growers in southern Honduras) usually all have their own hives. Most people do this as a sideline activity and don’t get into migratory beekeeping.

And then if the beekeeper is going to invest this much money in the change (or the organization is going to donate this much money), they had better be ready to use it as it’s meant. Unfortunately I don’t always see this happening. I’ve seen lots of money wasted by people who get started for free and then don’t take beekeeping seriously. After a year or two the boxes are left empty to rot or they end up selling them to make some money. Often times the wasted money comes from the donors to these organizations (North Americans), not the local people themselves. Or they just do it as a sideline, secondary activity and the tbhs are more than adequate for what they want to do or the interest they want to put into this (and “interest” is important if an investment is going to be made).

Maybe they should just be promoting (or at least “also” promoting) the supering of tbhs. It’s a nice intermediate step between using just the tbh and going to a full langstroth setup. You can begin to reuse combs in honey production while disturding your brood nest even less when it comes harvesting time. You wouldn’t have to buy the whole lang system.

And I don’t believe that they keep the bees calmer. When you pop the lid of a lang box you have a whole box opened to the outside. When you take that first box off things get even more exposed. It’s not to say that a top bar hive will always keep ornery bees under control, but they are definitely better than the langstroth boxes. It makes me wonder who is advising them; if they really went into top bar hives themselves to see what they are like. And in the article they saye Langs make beekeeping more enjoyable, comfortable and safe for a person in Ghana. Langs were definitely more uncomfortable to me than TBHs. No ifs, ands or buts. They stay too “opened” when working them. And tbhs are also no more dangerous than langs. I don’t know where they got that from.

To Green Thumb, it’s true that you can cut the comb out of Langstroth frames but that is sort of defeating the idea of how it should be used—save the comb by using frames, foundation and spinning it in an extractor. If you want to cut, you are probably better off saving money and building a simple tbh. You are in the same boat whether you cut the comb from a Lang frame or a tbh bar. You are basically doing the same thing so production should be relatively similar. And it is also true that if you really want to use a frame system there are ways to cut costs and make construction easier and do it by hand. But is it still the best system for everyone???? Probably not. And management is the key. If you can put in the necessary time and do the management that is necessary, you can get good harvests out of a tbh.

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Tom


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## buckbee (Dec 2, 2004)

Tom,
Thanks for putting the flesh on the bones - that's an argument more people should hear.


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## JaiPea (Sep 27, 2005)

A point that seems to have been missed in reactions to the story:

> Beekeeping in Ghana is already an established sustainable small
> scale industry.....

> ...experienced beekeepers are what EMWA needs in order to interject
> new development ideas into the Ghanaian honey production industry.

Adopting technology is how third world countries can improve their economic conditions, it does not mean imperialism is being pressed upon them.

A number of articles at www.beesfordevelopment.org show that using TBHs successfully is not all that easy in many countries, and gives one a new appreciation for the ready availability of timber in order to make properly sized top bars.

Beeswax is often a more valuable product than honey in subsistence beekeeping, so the destruction of comb is a plus, not a negative.

However, it appears that Ghana may have progressed beyond subsistence beekeeping and wants to move towards export income or pollination or..... If the experiment does not work then that's all it is, but 70 hives to potentially transform an industry does not seem like a bad bet. As to cost, the extractors pictured are not imported, they are being made out of bicycle tires and drums.

I'm not sure how Langs are better than TBHs to control hostile bees, but if the Ghanians can develop a technique to do so then that would benefit Lang beeks worldwide.

More power to them for trying, and I wish the Ghanians the best of luck.


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## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

> By exporting Langs to people who don't have the appropriate timber 
> cutting machinery to build them themselves sets up the same kind of
> dependency that the GM corporations create when they 'persuade' a 
> poor country's farmers to adopt a technology they neither need nor 
> can afford.

Can you please provide some facts to back up the claim that the
area lacks the "_appropriate timber cutting machinery_"?

I've never heard of any such project that did not include the
"technology transfer" required to build a local industry to support
the long-term and sustainable conversion to the admittedly more
intricate woodenware inherent in Langstroth hives.

I am forced to question a flat statement that this was not the case
here.

I openly reject the paranoid claim that the project at issue creates "_the
same kind of dependency that the GM corporations create when they
'persuade' a poor country's farmers to adopt a technology they neither
need nor can afford."_

Technology transfer is the key component of such efforts, as any moron
can import consumer goods and try to convince people that they "need"
them, but NGOs are not so stupid as to try such a thing.

I'd be interested in hearing about "supering top bar hives", as I've never
seen that used as an interim step, and it clearly would make sense.
How is this implemented in a scenario where the embedded base of
TBHs is large, and the advantages of supering hives need to be mixed
with the low-cost features of TBHs. My impression was that TBHs
came in all shapes and sizes, meaning that each might require a
different sort of "adapter" to make a bee-tight junction between
the TBH "brood chamber" and the supers?


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## buckbee (Dec 2, 2004)

Read Tomas' post above - he has elucidated my rather sketchy argument.


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## shawnwri (Jul 31, 2006)

Tomas said:


> My gut feeling is that this organization doesn’t really know what it’s doing or is getting one sided/bad advise from someone.....
> 
> Tom


Tom, Well put. Unfortunately, many NGO's are given money for a project by a donor that doesn't understand the need and has a pet project they want to initiate.


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## Tomas (Jun 10, 2005)

*tbh supering/African beekeeping*

Supering a tbh is basically leaving a gap between two top bars for bee transit and putting the super on top. If your top bars are all the same width and form a smooth surface, it shouldn’t be that difficult to put a super on top and have it bee tight. It the surface is more irregular, you may have to plug up the spaces between the top bars and super bottom. It might be a simple as stuffing some pieces of plastic bags in the space. Here are several sites that talk about supering a tbh. Some may be applicable to Ghana while others less so. Some experimentation in Africa may be necessary.

http://www2.gsu.edu/~biojdsx/super.htm

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d60/Oarceas/bees/TBHSupered.jpg

http://www.bushfarms.com/images/LongHiveSupered.JPG

http://www.drobbins.net/bee's/lh/lh.html

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207819&highlight=tbh+supering

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207655&highlight=tbh+supering

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I was researching African beekeeping a bit and I came across a couple interesting tidbits of information about beekeeping in Africa, more specifically in Kenya and the use of different hive technologies (you need to weed though all the information a bit to find what is applicable to this topic). Two were reports from Kenya that can be found at:

http://www.apiconsult.com/beekeeping-downloads/study.pdf

http://www.apiconsult.com/action-research.htm

The other is a list of recommendations for beekeeping projects in Africa (which are right in line with my beliefs about this. It applies to Honduras also.)

http://www.apiconsult.com/beekeeping-advice.htm

One thing that stands out is that it seems the traditional log hives are still deeply entrenched as the preferred hive by Kenyan beekeepers, in part because they have some problems using a tbh. Soooo, if they have some problems using a tbh (which should be fairly simple), would they have even more problems using (and accepting) a movable frame hive? My guess is yes (assuming Ghana beekeeping is similar to Kenyan beekeeping).

They are saying that it is expensive to buy a tbh. So how would they accept a Lang hive that would probably be even more expensive? Again, my guess is not very well.

Even the idea of supering a tbh may not work well based on this information. 

Like I said in my first post, if this organization’s aim is to present the Lang option to those beekeepers who are ready and able to use them, that’s great. Let’s hope it will work. But if the idea is to replace the tbhs with something “better,” they are probably going to have a lot of failures with their project. 

The other thing is follow up with the beekeepers to make sure their project is successful. This is the area that I always see neglected by the development organizations in Honduras (and it also seems to be a problem in Kenya). They get the people started but that’s about as far as it goes. Many times here in Honduras their budgets stipulate that the project is completed within their fiscal year. The initial part may be but follow up to the project and continuing training may require several years. That’s where the problems with failure begin. A more long-term commitment is needed for this type of project. It’s not just a matter of saying you spent so much money on a project.

And this organizations main focus is not really beekeeping, but spreading Christianity (which is perfectly good). Are they willing to put the necessary emphasis on this project to make it work, and not just have another failed development intent? I hope so but I have some doubts. I hope it is not just a way to make their organization look good and attract more donations—for their main goal—spreading God’s word. I don’t like when organizations mix the two and use one means (a development project) to accomplish the other (preaching). But then I may be wrong about their goals. Maybe they don’t really mix the two.

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Tom


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## JaiPea (Sep 27, 2005)

> This proves that any idiot can write an article. And yes, It shows
> that the people probably dont know how to work TBHs effectively.

> To run a beekeeping operation with TBHs is simplicity itself - all
> management and harvesting can be done using simple tools and basic
> equipment, like a knife and a bucket.

Some of the reference material identified in this thread shows that TBHs are not a panacea for beekeepers who do not have a good understanding of husbandry or complementary equipment (veils, smokers, suits, etc).

> Unfortunately, many NGO's are given money for a project by a donor
> that doesn't understand the need and has a pet project they want
> to initiate.

> My gut feeling is that this organization doesn’t really know
> what it’s doing or is getting one sided/bad advise from someone.....

Instead of corresponding in isolation about being misguided or otherwise, has anybody on this thread attempted to contact extramile to obtain more information?


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## Keith Benson (Feb 17, 2003)

never mind


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## Keith Benson (Feb 17, 2003)

never mind


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## Tomas (Jun 10, 2005)

I did a bit more looking on the internet and came across the web site of beekeeper Conrad Berube who went to Ghana in 2002 as part of a Farmer to Farmer program dealing with beekeeping. His reports give some interesting insights into the beekeeping in Ghana and the use of a tbh versus a Langstroth hive in Africa.

http://www3.telus.net/conrad/htmghana/beekeeping-appendix_2_part1.htm

http://www3.telus.net/conrad/htmghana/beekeeping-appendix_3_part2.htm

I also just sent an e-mail to Extra Mile West Africa to see if they might give us a bit more information about their beekeeping project and respond to some of our assumptions. Hopefully they will send a reply.


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## stangardener (Mar 8, 2005)

to put it in perspective the article refers to about seventy lang type hives being donated. that is not the whole of africa rejecting tbh's. that's farther fetched than some one seeing our little group here and wondering if the whole of beesource was dumping langs and using tbh's.
i noticed comments about countrys having milled timber and access to power tools. it doesn't matter what countrys have it matters what indiviuals or small groups have access to.
that's like that french woman who said "well let them eat cake". she may have had cake but that doesn't mean everyone did.


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## JaiPea (Sep 27, 2005)

Steve at extramile did not succeed in his efforts to register. If he succeeds in registering he may send a complete post along with extra details. Below are some sound bites from his replies which explain that this project is being pursued as an entrepreneurial venture.

> I have been approached recently by commercial sunflower growers 
> about the need for; "not more", but any available pollination 
> projects.

> ....not as a grant, but as a business, the viability of using
> Langstroth here in Ghana to offer "that infrastructure" to those
> beekeepers interested in making beekeeping more than just a
> sustainable industry.

> ...there is nothing wrong with a little technology, as long as it
> is not too dependent on imported equipment. But as for Ghana most
> if not all of this equipment can be made here, so why not improve
> an already good idea.

> ...there is electricity in Ghana, and good carpenters, and metal
> workers and is in my opinion ripe and ready for this type of
> advancement.

There is no doubt that Steve will have to deal with circumstances in his use of Langs e.g. since African bees are said to increase brood production as soon as the nest is self-sufficient in stores he may have to harvest the Langs quite often rather than stacking supers. 

Steve is aware of the issues associated with natural comb vs foundation (he mentions Michael Bush).

The extramile project is in good hands.


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## Tomas (Jun 10, 2005)

*letter from Extra Mile West Africa*

Steve from Extra Mile West Africa replied quickly yesterday to my query about their project. After contacting him again, he said it would be fine to post it here for everyone. This is what he said:

Dear Tom, Thanks for your note, much appreciated, I tried to register on the bee source site but the registration field rejected me due to me using your name as one who recommended the site to me, sorry. Anyway I would be happy to chat with you. First up I went on to the group site, very interesting opinions, some more informative and creative than others, but that can be expected, we all make mistakes and sometimes act like idiots. And it looks like I certainly did when I gave the KTB such a hard hit on our site,sorry to anyone who I offended, really not my intention. Just an observation I made during use and watching a local beekeeper use the hive in question. Yes I have had little experience with this type of hive, and yes I have seen it perform really well as a sustainable hive in a local setting with the bucket and knife and the squeezing and the the silk scarf etc. I actually would not mind at all using the hive under different circumstances. And once again I apologize for my under-rating of the KTB.

However because I am coming from a more commercial angle, and that does include pollination, as I have been approached recently by commercial sunflower growers about the need for; "not more", but any available pollination projects, I thought/felt, it would be an excellent idea, as Mr.Fischer, who I believe is a member of your group, so aptly quoted: " TBHs were widely promoted as superior to more primitive approaches, such as log hives, by well-meaning "Alternative Technology" advocates, but the entire concept of "Alternative Technology" is a way of thinking that those in the "3rd World" don't deserve the same infrastructure that we take for granted." 

I have been approached, not as a grant, but as a business, the viability of using Langstroth here in Ghana to offer "that infrastructure" to those beekeepers interested in making beekeeping more than just a sustainable industry. Honey in Ghana runs at about 8USD/kg, very high for a country that is listed 3rd world, if higher production can bring that price down to a more affordable level then so be it. I am seeing by spending some time discussing the subject with a Mr. Mike Bush that my concept of foundation and cell size was off and I fully appreciate the fact that cell size should be definitely left alone in regards to disease, and in fact I am very excited about the natural way. It certainly does away with the complexity of obtaining foundation here in Ghana. Although I would still be inclined to try out the home made foundation making techniques. But for now I will employ this foundationless frame idea. I am out of time for now, but once again I really appreciate your group discussion, and snob or not I just believe that Ghana can do better for herself,and believe that there is nothing wrong with a little technology, as long as it is not too dependent on imported equipment. But as for Ghana most if not all of this equipment can be made here, so why not improve an already good idea. Steve


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## buckbee (Dec 2, 2004)

"...interested in making beekeeping more than just a sustainable industry."

JUST a sustainable industry? Does he really understand the term 'sustainable'?


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## JaiPea (Sep 27, 2005)

> JUST a sustainable industry? Does he really understand the term 'sustainable'?

I interpreted this as a common mistake we all make when typing emails, and substituting a like word for the one meant. 

Replace with 'subsistence' and it all comes together


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## buckbee (Dec 2, 2004)

Ah yes, I think you have it!


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## Keith Benson (Feb 17, 2003)

"I tried to register on the bee source site but the registration field rejected me due to me using your name as one who recommended the site to me"

Doh!

Keith


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## BWrangler (Aug 14, 2002)

Hi Guys,

Bees could care less about the type of hive they occupy as long as it's large enough, properly situated, protected and defensible.

A beehive, by it's very nature, is an adaptation for the beekeeper. And he's the most critical element in their use. An intelligent and perceptive beekeeper can be productive with any kind of hive. One hive isn't inherently superior for production than any other hive in such a situation. 

But some hives require more bee knowledge and skill to achieve maximum productivity. I think tbhs are in this category. Could that be why they're so unpopular with some beekeepers? :>))) In the US most bee talk focuses on equipment manipulation and not on the bee. And most new beekeeping stuff is equipment not biology related.

A tbh, with it's limited management potential, can thwart much destructive mismanagement. A Lang hive with it's unlimited management potential, invites it. 

It's interesting that tbhs also achieve acceptable production and can remain healthy with minimal beekeeping knowledge and skill. And they can be build without any capital investment, ie adobe bricks and bamboo top bars, etc. Tbhs have been reported to produce more than Langs in some climates.

Choosing a hive for a business, is a business decision. And as such should involve all those factors that go into calculating a profit. Capital cost, suitability, availability, labor, cash flow, productivity, replacement costs, etc. are just a few of them. The type of equipment used affects these factors but doesn't guarantee a profit no matter how cheap or productive the hive is.

I've heard about an African man that is facilitating African beekeeping with micro loans. He's developed a successful wholesale/retail marketing cooperative that's free from the normal corruption usually associated with anything above subsistence farming. He has UN support and has been internationally recognized. I don't know what kind of hives are being used. Maybe I'll remember more and get more info to share.

Anyway, a 70 hive switch from tbhs to Langs should provide a good test bed to obtain some local beekeeping economics.

Good luck guys. May your beekeeping be very successful.

Regards
Dennis


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Tomas said:


> Steve from Extra Mile West Africa replied quickly yesterday to my query about their project. . . . "I tried to register on the bee source site but the registration field rejected me due to me using your name as one who recommended the site to me, sorry."


Ah Steve, that is NEVER the reason anyone gets rejected in the registration process. I have to assume you were one of the few registrants that didn't give a complete location listing when asked to do so if you received a rejection email. Simply stating USA, or London, or etc. isn't enough. If no email was received, then the only other reason one doesn't make it on is they fail to reply to the confirmation email that will send back to them their password. Could still be sitting in your spam filter folder!

Please feel free to email me if you want to figure out how to get through the registration process.

Regards,
Barry

[email protected]


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## eric1958 (Mar 31, 2017)

Hello,

I am new here. I am a U.S. Citizen now living in Ghana (WEST AFRICA) I want to get into BEE KEEPING here in Ghana & I am hoping for help in local organizations or associations where I can learn all about bee keeping & especially BEE KEEPING in WEST AFRICA!!! Please if someone can help me please. 

Respectfully,
eric1958


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## eric1958 (Mar 31, 2017)

Hello,
I am an U.S. Citizen that has moved & living here in GHANA (WEST AFRICA) I want to get started in BEE KEEPING & especially here in GHANA!!! Please I would be very grateful, if anyone could tell me about different groups & EDUCATION on BEE KEEPING. Also any Organizations or Associations here in GHANA that has any EDUCATION OR CLASSES on BEE KEEPING??? Thank you for any help

Respectfully,
eric1958


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## CougAlum (Apr 5, 2017)

i cannot seem to locate the article. is there an author and article title or possibly an alternate link to the article?


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## Jim 134 (Dec 1, 2007)

I see the topic of this article. It is very Broad. Something to remember Africa is got about 57 countries with a wide range of climates. yes I was a Peace Corps volunteer. My specialty was honeybees and where I lived along the Mediterranean. The climate was very good for langstroth hives. The climate that is about the same as the USA on the east coast in the Virginia area.. When you get into central Africa. Such as the Congo. Langstroth Hive will not hold up. Do to climate langstroth Hive only hold up about five to seven years. Way too short a Time. As compared to traditional log hives which will hold up a approximately 25 to 30 years. One thing to remember beekeeping is always about location location location.


BEE HAPPY Jim 134


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