# NWC Queen and Italian bees



## gljohnson (Jul 22, 2004)

I am a newbee so forgive me if this is a dumb question. However, I need to ask it for clarification of facts in my mind. I have Italian bees now and want to try the New World Carniolan bees. Can I just buy a NWC package with a queen? Or is it best to split a hive of Italians and add a NWC queen? Does the queen need to be artifically Inseminated or bred with drones?


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

Do you want to start a complete new colony?

If so, buy a queen and make a split this spring. The queen will already be mated when you get her. Since you are not raising queens, you don't need to purchase an Artificially Inseminated queen.

If you don't want a new colony, just re-queen one of your Italians.

Fusion


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Ways to end up with an NWC hive. Requeen an existing hive. Get a package with an NWC queen. Buy an nuc with an NWC queen. Buy a hive with an NWC queen. Buy a hive and requeen it with an NWC queen. Buy a nuc and requeen it with an NWC queen.

As Fusion_power says, it depends on what you want to end up with.

You can easily change the genetics of any hive by requeening.


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## BerkeyDavid (Jan 29, 2004)

GLJ When you get your queen it will already have mated. So you don't have to worry. You can put that queen with a split from your existing bees or with the package of whatever. Your new queen will lay "NWC" eggs, the package bees will nurse them, and the new bees will be NWC. All the new bees will be NWC, and the old bees will eventually die, having nursed the NWC bees from egg to worker. So you will be left with a hive full of NWC.
david


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## VABeeKEEPER (Dec 12, 2004)

Has anyone had any difficulty with putting a NWC with an Italian split? Sounds odd to me but I was just told (last night) by one of my old time mentors that he had had issues. Anyone have any diffient experience? I may be off topic slightly.


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## topbee (Mar 17, 2004)

I requeened 10 hives last year with NWC and everyone accepted. I just give them a day to introduce themselves and if the bees are not trying to sting her when I go back, I pull the cork to let them at the candy. If they are trying to sting her a just spray some glade in the hive and move her over to between two different frames.

That's just my way.

Tony


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## VABeeKEEPER (Dec 12, 2004)

topbee: Did you say...Glade? Interesting. I have used sugar syrup and Honey-B-Healthy but Glade? That is a new one on me.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

How about lemon pledge? It has the right smell.


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## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

I've been using NWC queens for years, and I've
given "extras" to other beekeepers who have had
splits or colonies go queenless, and I've not
had ANY undue problems with acceptance.

Wyatt Mangum did an extensive re-queening study,
and his bottom line was "remove the attendants
from the queen cage before inserting it into the
target colony". I agree with his conclusion.

Another trick is to look very closely at the
bees around the queen cage on a second pass
after you have inserted all the cages into
all the splits in the yard. (For a hobbyist
only making a few splits, give the bees an hour
or so.) If the bees are being "aggressive"
(biting at the mesh, not fanning pheromones,
and otherwise not being mellow) you need to
think seriously about putting the cork back
in the candy hole, and giving them a extra
few days to "get used to the new queen", or
you need to seriously consider looking for
the second queen you did not find.

It is my personal theory that far more hives
are two-queeners than anyone suspects, and
this causes re-queening problems, so we
always make a split to requeen, and combine
the split back with the parent colony after
removing the queen (at least the one we can
find) from the main colony. This approach
is capital equipment intensive, but anything
that makes such a mission-critical operation
more predictable is worth it. One can go
through a split and verify with 100% certainty
that there is no "extra" queen in the split.

With a full hive, this is a dice roll, and
I haven't got all day to keep "rolling".

jim


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## Beemaninsa (Jun 9, 2004)

We maintain a 5 frame observation hive at our local museum and even it has had 2 queens since at least mid summer. Are queens in multiple queen colonies normally adequate enough to prevent supercedure cells from forming if they are placed by themself in a split?


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## topbee (Mar 17, 2004)

VaBeeKEEPER, I have used Glade numerous times where the hive was queenless. I sprayed the entrance and across the top frames and released the new queen right in the front entrance and they accepted her. Now, I wouldn't recommend this type of introduction on a hot hive, but it works for me. I generally do this with my bee yards that I can't get to as often as I want.

I am not trying to be a comedian when I responded, but if you want to try pledge,hey! who am I to tell you NO!

Tony


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## BerkeyDavid (Jan 29, 2004)

I requeened an Italian Hive with an NWC with no problems. I am really sold on the Better Bee Plastic push in cages. You put the cage over some emerging brood. The new emerging nurse bees immediately accept the queen, and she has room to start laying inside the push in cage, so it is really a win win.


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## gljohnson (Jul 22, 2004)

Thanks to all who responded. I have ordered a NWC queen and will put her in a split this spring.


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## Dick Allen (Sep 4, 2004)

>It is my personal theory that far more hives are two-queeners than anyone suspects, and this causes re-queening problems

Nope, it is not your personal theory, it belongs to many of us.


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## VABeeKEEPER (Dec 12, 2004)

Thanks Topbee! I have used 1:1 Suger Syrup with Honey-Be-Healthy. I will try the Glade...what the heck! Can't hurt! I really like the temperment of my NWC queens bring to my apiaries, so Glade might be their secret "catnip".


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I've run into enough natural two queen hives that I have to suspect there are more that I never saw than there are ones that I've noticed.


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## Flyer Jim (Apr 22, 2004)

Sounds easy. Is there any particular fragrance of Glade you recommend? Any ingredient that might be harmful?


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## TwT (Aug 5, 2004)

I dont want to get off the subject but is it true that the russian queens are the hardest to get a colony to except, I have heard alot of people saying this.now back on the subject, I would have thought glade an other sprays would kill a hive but Im willing to learn new tricks, thanks


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## topbee (Mar 17, 2004)

You don't soak the bees with the Glade, just enough to hide the scent. When the perfume of the glade disappears they don't know any different. I also use this when combining a weak hive with a strong hive.

Good luck
Tony


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## honeyman46408 (Feb 14, 2003)

I saw a guy use "Soft & Dry" spray deodrent to introduce a new queen


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## Antero (Jan 9, 2005)

I use vanilla extract syrup to introduce new queens and to combine weak hives. Terry


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## Ricko (May 18, 2004)

Maybe Topbee and others are on to something here with the Glade, Lemon Pledge, the use of lemon oils, etc. I just hit the men's room on the way to the cafeteria, and noticed high up on the wall a unit that sends out a measured burst of concentrate air freshener at timed intervals. LOL
This being a commercial product (that I've also seen at Restaurant Supply houses), I'm sure is a more concentrate product than the local grocery store carries for home use. Now I don't know if the bees prefer a "Mountain Meadow" fragrance, but when house keeping comes around next time, I'm going to see who the manufacture is and if they carry a lemon scent! I like the idea of a metered discharge making every burst equal in content. This might lead one to wonder if a burst of this concentrate air freshener has any effect on mites. It would be kind of nice if one could get away from mixing and using the FGMO , if all one had to do is walk along and give a burst or two of metered spray under the cover! Well just a little humorous thought pondering here! LOL


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

I queened 6 Italian splits last year with NWC. All were accepted and laying. After 6+ weeks, all but one had been superceded. That one is still around this year. I think they do better in more moderate climates than ours. The tend to shut down during the heat of summer here (dearth). The smaller colonies then get robbed badly by the Italians. If we had a longer or more consistent flow, it might not be an issue. The colonies from the supercedures seem to all be doing well and are easy to work.


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