# Spacing and other things



## Chuck Jachens (Feb 22, 2016)

I use all inch and a half top bars. The key is to put new bars between the bars of well drawn comb. As soon as they have 8 bars started, add 2 bars in the middle so that there are two drawn bars sepating the new bars. Don't worry about breaking up brood frames. The bees will start to build and the brood won't get cold.


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## Chuck Jachens (Feb 22, 2016)

The fix is to cut off the comb. Harvest the honey strip and reattach the brood comb with hair clips or rubber bands to the top bar.


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## larrylwill (Apr 4, 2016)

Thanks for the info, I was watching Les Crowder on you tube and his frame tops are all reclaimed wood of varying thickness but every frame he pulled were perfectly formed but not as deep as mine. Mine hive was built from a 8 ft 1X12 . His don't look as deep to me.


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## bentonkb (May 24, 2016)

The bees will make the honey cells much deeper than brood cells. They just keep drawing out until they have just one beespace between adjacent combs. You might try 1.25" bars placed between fatter combs. They will draw it out thin and easy to handle. You can always add spacer strips to a narrow bar if needed.

Don't try to harvest honey from brood comb. That is for their own use later. When the broodnest shrinks there will be some all-honey bars for you to take.


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## dcnylund (May 28, 2015)

Hi Larrylwill. A lot of sources say to use 1-1/4" bars for brood (in the brood cluster) and 1-1/2" bars for honey (in the honey section). As you don't know exactly (just generally) where the bees will build brood and honey and maintaining/managing 2 bar sizes adds to the complexity, most people split the difference and go with 1-3/8" bars. A few people, like Chuck, also use all 1-1/2" bars with success. The bees seem to have a bit of flexibility. I believe the people who use spacers in the honey section tend to be the people who use 1-1/4" or even 1-3/8" bars. I don't think you need spacers if you are using 1-1/2 bars.

It is normal for brood comb to have a band of honey near the top (most if not all of mine do). The bees will start building pure honey comb once they expand the brood cluster to the size they want it to be. My guess is that your hive hasn't gotten to that point yet.

I've personally found (and read from a lot of sources), that the trick to avoiding cross comb is to actively manage the bars and fix any comb starting to go wonky as soon as you see it. If it is fresh comb, it is usually a matter of cutting a section of the comb where it attaches to the bar and bending it back into place, pressing it back onto the guide. Managing cross comb is especially important when your hive is building comb and expanding. The other important tip is exactly what Chuck says - to place single, empty bars between two straight combs (ideally in the brood nest to help expand the brood cluster). I've done that and haven't had any problems with cross comb at all.

If the combs are just a little out of wack, try a minor repair without cutting the entire comb off. If they are really out of alignment, you can do as Chuck suggests, or if you already have a lot of comb remove the bad comb and use it for was.

Wonky comb begets wonky comb. The more you stay on top of it the easier it is to manage.


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## Pale Rider (Apr 14, 2016)

One last thing. Did you make sure your hive is close to level side to side and end to end?


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## AvatarDad (Mar 31, 2016)

larrylwill said:


> Thanks for the info, I was watching Les Crowder on you tube and his frame tops are all reclaimed wood of varying thickness but every frame he pulled were perfectly formed but not as deep as mine. Mine hive was built from a 8 ft 1X12 . His don't look as deep to me.


In Les's book he says he uses 1x10 lumber for his hives, because that size balanced volume and comb strength the best. I went with that as well. Sometimes I feel it could be a bit deeper, but I've (so far) never broken a comb either.


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## larrylwill (Apr 4, 2016)

They were not level as I just finished a weeks of moving the 10 ft out of the bamboo grove. There both level now.


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## m0dem (May 14, 2016)

Do *not* space out 1-1/2" bars. (I learned my lesson the hard way... ever heard of "double comb"... that's because I (my bees) invented it inch That is a good space (a *spec* on the large side).
You should've been proactively correcting comb and feeding in new bars between straight comb.
Do you use comb guides?


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## larrylwill (Apr 4, 2016)

I didn't know they made comb guides or top bar hives since the top bards touch each other. I already have some double combs on several bars, so I put a 1/2 spacer between them today.


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## m0dem (May 14, 2016)

larrylwill said:


> I didn't know they made comb guides or top bar hives since the top bards touch each other. I already have some double combs on several bars, so I put a 1/2 spacer between them today.


Yes, they make comb guides, but I don't use them, and they build nice and straight and in the right place. (if I do my part)
Ok, but make sure to only put the spacers where they are 110% needed (double comb). Don't let them make triple comb!!! (yes, I've had that happen...) I've been keeping bees for only about 4 weeks now... I've learned a lot.


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## larrylwill (Apr 4, 2016)

4 weeks? I have kept bees in Langstroth off/on for over 15 years but top bars for only 10 weeks after 10 years absent. I have watched about 50 youtube movies and read about 100 threads on the subject, always built my own hives. I suppose you are referring to 1/4" spacers for honey frames? Which I used today.
Besides as you read even in this thread things change very fast. No offense, Is 4 weeks really enough time to learn much? Especially if you have never kept bees before. TopBar beekeepers as well as Langstroth have widely varying ideas that are in conflict with each other many many times. Pick a subject.


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## Chuck Jachens (Feb 22, 2016)

There are many ways of creating a comb guide for a top bar. I prefer a right angle triangle stapled to the bar so that it makes a vee with the point down. Many people put popsicle sticks in a saw kerf down the middle of the bar. Others use a string with hot wax bead down the center. W A Magmum puts a one inch slice of foundation in a saw kerf.

You must fix the combs so you have one per bar. It won't fix itself. Don't try to fix it in a day, three or four combs a day will be disruptive enough. As you fix the comb, fed 1:1sugar water for at least a week after so the have the energy to repair and reattach the comb.


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## larrylwill (Apr 4, 2016)

All my top bars were started with a saw kerf and 1" strip of plastic foundation. I have seen some that started on both sides of the foundation and some that only attached to one side, those are the worst ones. I like the top bar design because you are not exposed to as many bees as in a Langstroth, I also like that its easy to work at waste high, since its now only a hobby not for profit I do not need to lift 70 lbs supers in 100 degree weather. 1 frame of honey will last me a month or more. I also wanted them for pollination. I built my top bar swarm trap with frames so I could put them in either type. I think that making frames on the top bars would be the best of both worlds, I have read of beekeepers doing this but I do not know the long term effects, in other words will the bees build straight comb within the frames. I would also be able to cut the caps and save the comb to harvest honey. So I'm going to build a few and see. I know then it wont be a top bar it will be a combination, BTW I harvested 1/2 frame of honey and it was the color of Tupelo honey almost pure white or clear white, very mild. I have no idea what they got the nectar from.


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## scottie9656 (May 11, 2015)

I have also had success adding bars without guides in between straight built comb but not anywhere else. If you use the saw kerf method be sure to fill it completely because it is a great hiding place for SHB. I found these 3/16 dowels in the craft aisle. Fast and easy!


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