# honey bee healthy?



## chillardbee (May 26, 2005)

i was wondering if anyone has used honey bee healthy or products like that, or if you have personal recipes that you use. also what results you've had using it?


----------



## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

I have used it with another beekeeper who keeps a spray bottle handy to calm the bees down while working the hive. It does work in that capacity. I also know several who feed it to the bees mixed with syrup. I know what the claims suggest in the marketing. But I always take most of that with a grain of salt.

My personal thought is that its just one more thing to spend money on.


----------



## IBSmoking (Apr 2, 2005)

Use it, like it...mix it with sugar water...bees love it.


----------



## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

I heard it can spark robbing behavior often.


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I have some around for spraying on plastic to get it accepted but I don't regularly use it. It does seem to contribute to robbing. Here's a recipe that was posted before by Clint:

Honey Bee Healthy Recipe
5 cups water
2 1/2 pounds of sugar
15 drops each of spearmint and lemongrass oils
1/8 teaspoon lecithin granules 
You have to dissolve the granules in very hot (almost boiling) water and let it cool prior to incorporating the oils into the mixture. The lecithin is an emulsifier and helps disperse the oils in the water mixture. This is the standard recipe according to a website article I read about using essential oils, and these are the two oils used in the HBH. I use less of the oils than the recipe calls for since I am feeding fairly heavily at this time, but for a spring or fall treatment, I will follow these measurements. 
Essential Oils:

LorAnn Oils
4518 Aurelius Road
P.O. Box 22009
Lansing, Michigan 48909
(517) 882-0215
or toll free
1-800 248-1302
or by fax
(517) 882-0507
The last I purchased was Spearmint oil 1 ounce for $3.99 
Be sure to mention that you are a Beekeeper to get the cheaper prices. 
They seem to have it all in stock and a lot of great info on the oils used for beekeeping"--Clint


----------



## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Thanks MB. Gotta be cheaper than the stuff in bee mags.


----------



## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

here's a pretty good source for essential oils at reasonable prices

http://www.wildroots.com/index.php

the search thing in the upper right finds what you're after

Dave


----------



## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Thanks MB...... sounds cool and cheap.


----------



## Hill's Hivery (Jan 7, 2005)

I made some of the recepie that MB posted. The bees loved it. I mixed with syrup for spring feeding. Check out some of the results.

http://groups.msn.com/SIBeekeepers/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=4
http://groups.msn.com/SIBeekeepers/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=5


----------



## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

When people say they love it, how does one know. Mine seem absolutely thrilled with sugar syrup with nothing added.

Is there any studies or testimonials with such mixtures for better health benefits(to the bees of course)? Thank you.

I am actually surprised at how many use such things. On one hand, its natural comb this, and natural that. And then to hear they add oils and other things to the hive, just seems unnatural to me.


----------



## MountainCamp (Apr 12, 2002)

BjornBee, I used HBH one season the bees took it well enough. I was using it for the claim they had at the time for hive health and mites.
I have since been using wintergreen and spearmint oils for mites and found that they have help manage them.


----------



## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

MountainCamp, is that the ingredients in HBH? What your using now?


----------



## NW IN Beekeeper (Jun 29, 2005)

MBush
<It does seem to contribute to robbing>
<I heard it can spark robbing behavior often.>

It sure does.
If you have weak hives/split they can be robbed to death. 
I lost two splits and all their stores last fall because they were fed a similar mix just after the fall flow stopped and they were robbed dead dead dead. 

I have found that the lemongrass element seems to be the leading cause of the robbing. I have had better results with leaving out the lemongrass oil, as it seems to be the spearmint that acts as the preservative. I have had good luck with Michael's suggestion of mixing the oils in honey first, and then adding them to the sugar mix. 

One may also consider a little soy flour in the mix to boost brood and royal jelly quality (and thus better queens).

Most of the time sugar syrup "spoils" because of handling issues, like not cleaning the holding container. It would be advisable, but not always practical, to clean the feeding container (jar/bucket/etc) between each refill and handle the containers and the syrups with clean hands and keep handling to a minimal. Also try to mix your syrups just before you need them, HBH will not clean-up moldy syrups. If you do have to allow your syrups to sit, keep them cool (refridgerate) or in well lighted areas (mold grows spores in the dark). 

I do have to say that syrup take up is better with spearmint added, then again I think any "odor" component adds a tracer back to the feed source. 

I would also recommend that anyone that uses HBH (or the like) in inverted buckets, jars, etc. carry an additional 5 gallon bucket inwhich to invert these. ANY amount of spillage will create a frenzy. Guess I learned the hardway, but at least none of you reading this should have to experience the same failure. 

Feed on...

Jeff


----------



## MountainCamp (Apr 12, 2002)

I think that HBH has lemon grass & spearmint oils.
I started reading about oils because of the HBH and the claims.
However, I mainly use spearmint & wintergreen oils. I have some lemon grass that I use when hiving swarms and packages.
I also use a little lemon grass in a very light sugar spray when woring hives vs. smoking.


----------



## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

not sure if you guy's have seen this before

http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/varroa.htm

Dave


----------



## sc-bee (May 10, 2005)

I would like to use the mixture instead of smoke. Is the above recipe from "Clint" good to use instead of smoke or too thick with sugar??? Would a spray instead of smoke promote robbing in my area in the summer or fall. Or main flow is over early- I understand usually late May.


----------



## MountainCamp (Apr 12, 2002)

Dave, That is one of the sources that I used when switching to HBH & oils in 1999. HBH used to link to that site at the time. I have read a number of papers from Europe on oils as well.

SC-bee, I use a very light syrup with a few drops of oil instead of smoke most of the time. I use either lemon grass, spearmint, or wintergreen oil in the spray. They all seem to work fine. The sugar spray gives them something to take their minds off of what you are doing, the oils scent masks any alarm scent, and the oil vapor may also help with mites as well.


----------



## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Does anyone grow or extract lemongrass? Is this something people do?


----------



## Jeffrey Todd (Mar 17, 2006)

Bjornbee,

Yes, my wife and I grow lemongrass in our garden. It is used in Asian cooking a lot. It looks a lot like JOhnson grass and is very easy to grow - requires almost no care. The root is the part of the plant that is used primarily. If you smell the leaves they smell just like fresh lemons. You ought to be able to get it at your local nursery or Lowe's.
And thanks for your advice to my other posts.

Jeffrey


----------



## Brent Bean (Jun 30, 2005)

I use Honey-Bee-Healthy and have tested if the bees will consume it over regular sugar syrup, and they defiantly do. One very good side effect is the sugar syrup will not spoil or mold, I have had buckets that have set around from spring to fall with a little syrup, the ones with HBH are still fresh the ones without are a disgusting mess. 
I use the same recipe that Michael Bush listed you can make gallons for the price of one bottle of the store bought brand.


----------



## Mabe (Mar 22, 2005)

My experience has been similar with HBH and homemade, but I use WAY less HBH than is suggested on the bottle. Maybe a tablesppon per 2 gallons of syrup. It does cut down dramatically on mold in the buckets and plastic is much better accepted when sprayed with it. I also mix in some poultry electrolytes, but only about 1/4 teaspoon per 2 gallons syrup, so it may not really matter. MB is right...fullstrength HBH encourages robbing big time.


----------



## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Thanks for the info and the thank you jeffrey.


----------



## Chick (May 21, 2009)

Where do you buy the lecithin granules?


----------



## Hambone (Mar 17, 2008)

I get mine at a local herb store. GNC also carries them.


----------



## Chick (May 21, 2009)

After I posted that, I looked at nuitritiongeeks.com. They have it for $4.14 for 8 oz, $3.99 for 1 oz of Lemongrass oil and $4.99 for Spearmint oil. And, only about $3 shipping. I ordered it there. Thanks!


----------



## Tia (Nov 19, 2003)

What Brent Bean said. I use it only in the spring for build up. I also use it in very dilute sugar water to spray on swarms so that they drop into the box easier.


----------



## clarkfarm (Apr 13, 2009)

I used to live in Texas and grew lemon grass in my herb garden. I do not believe it would be successful in Pa. Maybe as a short term annual. If anyone has had success growing LG in the Mid Atlantic Region I would be interested in how you did it as I now live in Virginia. I have never seen it sold in nurseries this far North. Susan


----------



## dni (Oct 4, 2008)

*Re: honey bee healthy in 2:1 ?*

Anybody have any experience using Honey-B-Healthy in a 2:1 Fall feeding?


----------



## PCM (Sep 18, 2007)

*Re: honey bee healthy in 2:1 ?*



dni said:


> Anybody have any experience using Honey-B-Healthy in a 2:1 Fall feeding?


I have been using it, When Ever I need to feed.
I believe a number of benifits !

Every one has their own opinions. :lpf:
Take all inter-net forum info. with a grain or two of salt ! 

PCM


----------



## bubbarex (Mar 20, 2009)

I've also prepared and used the essential oil additive that is described in the recipe above and I agree, the bees DO love it.

My evidence for this is a hive of mine that was a little light at the beginning of fall. I began feeding it heavy syrup and they were taking it, but not real fast. Maybe a half-gallon jar in 5 or 6 days. I took the jar off, added 2 teaspoons of the mixture above, topped the jar off with new syrup and the bees sucked a half gallon dry in 2 days.

I've also used it as a spray and it DOES calm the bees FAST. But it's no good if you need to clear the bees from the top of the bars. They don't don't run down between the frames, as they do with smoke. Instead they just stop whatever there doing and lick it up. This can be a problem when your trying to put things together and not squash a bazillion bees.

Lastly, making your own is simple and WAY cheaper than buying it.


----------



## wcubed (Aug 24, 2008)

New? Application For HBH


Received a phone call a couple weeks back from Micheal Meyer in Missouri. He's a commercial operator and reported that some of the biggest of the commercial guys are enthusiastic about a new use for HBH. They call it 4X from the concentration used - that is four times the concentration of other uses. He said that bees will not take that concentration level from a feeder. So they literally pour it on.

A cup of 4X poured between the frames wets the adult bees with syrup. In the process of cleaning up themselves and their nestmates all ingest some of the HBH. They report that they have not seen colonies in such good condition in years.

I accept no responsibility for passing on this info. From my standpoint it's hearsay. But if true, it could be the "silver bullet" reported to be non-existent. It's certainly cheap enough. A pint of HBH at 22 bucks would treat about 100 colonies, or 22 cents a shot.

Neglected to ask if two brood chambers of bees needed a cup of 4X each. He did say that smaller units (nucs) needed less than a cupful to wet the bees. Mix 1 1/2 cup HBH to 5 gallons syrup or 1/3 cup to 1 gallon. Those numbers don't quite jive, but are close enough for government work. 4X may not be the magic dosage anyway. The magic dosage is still outstanding at this time. Several treatments for less than a buck is an attraction proposition.

My experience with essential oils does not qualify me to judge. When they were the rage of the day, added some wintergreen to my sugar/shortening mix. Bees dying in the grease mix bucket turned me off. Didn't think I needed to add some lethal material in the hives. My flirtation with essential oils was very brief. But that early opinion is open to review.

Will be on the road for nearly two weeks and out of touch to respond to any commentary. Have a few more details not provided in this heads up


Walt W


----------



## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

Here is another thread about making HBH.

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233476&highlight=honey+bee+healthy

I went to whole foods and they had the essential oils on the shelf. Look at your natural foods stores for the oils and save yourself the shipping.


----------



## wcubed (Aug 24, 2008)

With another active thread on HBH running, am reluctant to revive this one, but think an update appropriate to my last posting.

In my travels last month, met with Bob Noel at his home in Cumberland, MD. I should thank drobbins for the link to the '97 blurb that I hadn't seen. The more I thought about it, the more I wanted to know about the essential oil thing. Had some pointed questions to ask those who knew the answers. Bob is the innovator and president of the company that produces the HBH product.

Several of the above posts are skeptical to negative. Nobody takes issue with the stuff being a feeding stimulant or encouraging robbing. To me both those features suggest the bee colony has a natural affinity for the EO scent. Bees are known to be Quite discriminating in their foraging. They select pollen sources with the most nourishment and nectar sources with the highest sugar content, and disregard lesser sources unless desparate. 

Their natural affinity for EOs implies instinctive recognition of the beneficial effects provided by those scents. We don't know what those effects might be, but the bees are known to do a lot of their functions on "nose" 
power. (pheromones) We can't even guess how sensitive their sense of smell really is or how they perceive the tiniest source in a group of stronger sources.

Strayed from the subject. Point is: Do you skeptics have an answer for why the EOs might be an attractant with no colony benefit? It seems to me that the colony is pretty savvy, instinctively, on what's best for them.

Will plug in a few more tidbits as time permits on what was learned by going undercover in their midst.

Walt W


----------



## wcubed (Aug 24, 2008)

To continue, a little history/geography:
Jim Amrine in West Virginia said that huge colony losses rolled across WV in a wave through '93 and '94. In '95, the wave reached Bob Noel in Cumberland MD. Bob was a sideliner with about 100 colonies. The thin slice that is Western MD wraps around northeast WV.

One of the first questions I asked Bob was what prompted him to get off on the abstract tangent of essential oils. He was quick to give his sister, Marlene credit for pointing him in that direction. In nursing school, an instructor had extoled the virtues of EOs in the natural world. She gave him no help in how he might apply that tidbit.

What the heck. He was desparate. With dead and dying colonies, and no other options, what did he have to lose? He put some wintergreen in s/w and fed his sickly colonies. Surprise!! The sickly started to recover and he saw more dead V mites on bottom boards.

Thinking he had something of interest for the beekeeping professionals, Bob prepared a letter and sent it to multiple academic entities. Only Amrine at WV showed any interest. He traveled the 1 and a half hour road time about once a week to monitor progress, and was impressed with results.

Enough for now,
Walt


----------



## Gone Bee'n. (Jul 20, 2008)

Micheal is this a unconsecrated mix that should be fed as is or is there a different recipe for concentrate to mix with syrup like in a 300 gal tote.


----------



## maple1 (Jun 17, 2011)

I have made a batch of the honey b healthy recipie. It was easy but doesn't smell like the commercial material and is not as dense. One question, I already have some peperment oil can I add that to the mix?


----------



## TNBeek (May 21, 2011)

Gone Bee'n. said:


> Micheal is this a unconsecrated mix that should be fed as is or is there a different recipe for concentrate to mix with syrup like in a 300 gal tote.


I'm also interested in the mixture that Michael quoted. Is this the concentrate to use as the directions on the HBH product bottle?


----------



## Sarahatl (May 12, 2011)

Some of you say that you use this as a spray when inspecting your hives rather that smoke? What is the recipe (amounts?) you use for the spray? Thank you in advance.


----------



## maple1 (Jun 17, 2011)

A question, I have a bottle of peperment oil. Can that be added to the honey b healthy recipie?


----------

