# Small Hive Beetle Discussion



## db_land (Aug 29, 2003)

Since switching to small cell and nearly 100% feral bees (removals, swarms and their descendants), the Varroa Destructor (VD) era appears to be over for my 60 hives. The jury is still out, but I havn't seen a varroa for months. 
NOW the problem is Small Hive Beetle (SHB). I've lost 8 out of 30 pollination hives this summer to SHB. Admittedly, these weren't the strongest hives ever assembled, but were very strong and building up. My mistake: I gave them extra room (supers) because I only visit their remote location about every 4-6 weeks. Some SHB (non scientific) observations:
1) SHB can overwhelm a strong hive very quickly. There must be enough house bees to constantly patrol every inch of every comb - chasing the adult beetles and removing eggs.
2) The adult beetles like to lay eggs in crevices (especially the bottom bar groove) where the bees can't reach them. The shb eggs hatch within about 24 hours into very tiny, very voracious larvae.
3) The larvae burrow through the comb midrife, eating brood and pollen. The downward spiral in bee population accelerates - more shb larvae, fewer replacement bees ... The comb is slimed and the queen stops laying. Meanwhile wax moths proliferate and the destruction further accelerates.
4) At about this point the queen and most of the bees will adscond - appearing to be a small "swarm". I think most of these "swarms" actually join another hive.
5) I believe the problem spreads from one hive to another. The adult shb leaving a dead-out seem to concentrate on the same neighboring hive. They find the hive entrance by following the bees. 
6) I think screened bottom boards (especially with the insert in) help the SHB avoid the patroling house bees. 
7) Contrary to scientific info about the SHB life-cycle suggesting the SHB larvae must leave the hive to pupate in the ground, I believe they can and do pupate in the hive (in comb midrife and bottom debris) if there are no bees around to prevent it. I opened several small caccoons containing what appeared to me as SHB larvae. (Note: Ground treatments like Gardstar might be selecting for SHB that pupate in the hive? If so, SHB might become better suited for winter survival in colder climates?).

More later.


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## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

db,

sorry to hear of the troubles
so far I haven't had a problem with SHB but expect them to show up
I'm curious, have you had SHB troubles with your hives at home?
If I'm not mistaken you said your outyards are east of here where the soil is sandy while around here it's clay
just wondering if that makes a difference
Thanks for the report on the SC, it's encouraging

Dave


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## hrogers (Dec 16, 2000)

Howdy db --

Your findings and ideas support some of my ideas. One additional theory is that the beetles may be able to do a complete cycle outside the hive and then enter hives. In one of my yards of 18 hives the beetle population exploded right after honey crop was removed. 8 strong hives were killed in less than a month. The yard is in scattered large pine trees with deep build up of decayed pine needles. Did the enormous beetle population come from that build up?
Doc

[ September 25, 2006, 08:33 PM: Message edited by: hrogers ]


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## Bizzybee (Jan 29, 2006)

Just something to think about.

I have 17 colonies sitting on solid Granite, for 100ft in every direction. I have more SHB at that location than my other which is located on a clay/sand soil.

I too have noticed what seems to be development inside the hives and also primarily in the bottom grooves and any cracks they can find.

Bees that tend to propolize can be a blessing where these pests are concerned. I have made it a part of my regular routine to inspect my hives for any hiding places for the beetles. And seal them myself if the bees haven't. 

I have also become a big fan of letting by bees make their own comb in the brood boxes instead of providing foundation. But that's another discussion. So, with that in mind, until I either design my own frames or find another to use. I am also sealing joints and bottom grooves with wax to close up those safe havens for the beetles.

I have not noticed any of my bees that will tolorate the existence of SHB's in their hives, Italian or Carnie. But if they can't get to them, there's nothing they can do about them. So I believe a lot of the management of these pests rest with us. In the quality of construction and maintenance of the hives. And as mentioned above, better planning in the addition of space that the bees will have to maintain.

Great discussion guys!! Hope some more folks will pipe in with their observations.....


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

interest thead db_land. 

I would think based on my experience.

#1- NO.

#2-most definitely yes and a good reason for solid bottom bars.

#3-yes. but for me the problem is most notable on hives with weak population and limited resources (which as you have suggested can be partially or wholly attributed to actions of the bee keeper... ie robbing excess honey).

#4 yes but no. a weaken hive will abscond from internal problem, but most times here they simply take to the trees.

#5 No, at least not in my experience. See bracketed comment of #3.

#6 Highly likely. I do not use screened bottom boards but anything that allows a small crack or crevice that the bees cannot patrol will provide a congregation place for the hive beetle. As I have suggested in another thread poor fitting hive bodies provides the same niche.

#7 A good hypothesis, but like most hypothesis difficult to test. Is the scientific thinking that the shb must pupate in the ground or is this the overwintering component of it life cycle?


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## sc-bee (May 10, 2005)

Yea,
I agree with most of what has been already stated. I began to have problems after making splits to ten frame hives late in the year. I had noticed the pest before then but the bees had controlled them. The extra comb I added was the downfall---thus adding the extra hiding space they needed. I lost three of four (last year) my first year. My bees absconded to happier hunting grounds not mine!!!

Everyone has their own theory about soil content. I definitely think the harder soil helps but I have hard clay base and still have shb. I moved them to a bottom that had more of a leafy matter after the splits and this is when the numbers exploded, Did the soil content help I'm not sure. But I know it didn't help. After the infestation I tried breaking the hives down and putting the comb in freezer to save them. It only delayed the tragedy. At this point I had moved all the colonies miles from my house. also no other beekeeper around. I removed frozen comb (from deep freeze) that had been there at least a week. Placed them on a table to thaw and after they did, they had adult shb on them. I guess they were attracted to the comb on the table, because all my hives (three colonies-I had lost one at this point) were miles away.

Folks in other part of my State with sandy land also have a problem but from what I hear is worse than clay land area. My friend is in sandy land and has not much of a problem. He attributes it to the fact that he pollinates and moves his hives often thus breaking the cycle. Seems to have more of a problem in the honey house I think??? 

Screened bottom boards??? Makes since I guess--open bottoms easy access. Some people have actually sealed everything except a pvc pipe in upper part of deep to use as entrance.

Don't have any idea about pupating in the hive?

As for treatment I guess that is a discussion all of it's own!!! I have used a few things I could mention and then one last ditch effort I care not too!!! I know there have been several discussions on treatment so I will leave it out of this thread at this time.

For those of you who are not bothered with them GOOD LUCK!!! Hope it remains that way.


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## db_land (Aug 29, 2003)

Dave: All of the losses were in the Clinton area (sandy loam type soil great for farming). In the Triangle I've seen shb in most hives, but no losses so far. I did have a weak removal (the idiot home owner had been spraying them for some time before calling me to remove). This removal came with lots of SHB (I only saw adults during the removal). I put them in a 5-frame nuc; manually killed about 100 adult shb; gave them 2 frames of brood; fed sugar syrup; etc. - finally got them through it.

tecumseh: The scientific thinking is that the larvae must leave the hive to pupate in dirt. My eyesight isn't good enough to be absolutely sure, but I'm pretty sure I found shb caccoons in the hive. 

I like the idea of solid/wax filled bottom bars. How are commercial scale beekeepers controling their SHB problems? Traps seem too expensive and labor intensive. 

A couple more thoughts: The bee yard that had the most SHB problems is mostly shaded and close to an irrigation pond (soil around the hives is damp most of the time). I read that the SHB larvae can crawl a long way to find soil for pupating. To test this I put a larvae in the middle of about 20ft (in all directions) of hot asphalt. It had no trouble crawling to the edge! So putting something under the hive won't stop them from reaching soil. Squishing the adult beetles is easy (for a hive tool), but the larvae are tough.

I welcome any ideas about how to control these little monsters. Bear in mind for me it would have to work for 60 hives most of which are remote (visited about every 4-6 weeks). Any homemade trap ideas?


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## SweetBettyBees (Jun 19, 2006)

I have placed a Hood trap in each of 20 hives, some known to have SHB. In two weeks the traps had collected impressive numbers of beetles (6-8 in a few traps, less in others), though I saw beetles still running in hives with the traps. 

In strong singles I see them most often corralled into a corner of the top side of the inner cover, am trying to figure how to design or modify a trap to fit in that space. 

Also caught a few in hives where beetles had not been seen previously. 

Some traps caught none, despite beetles running in those hives.

So - results are mixed but in all cases have seen no larva seen and infestations do not appear to be worsening. 

Infestations seem worst in areas with most shade - situation has improved with more sun, but there may be other factors altered by moving those hives.

My experience so far with ruined brood comb has been that after freezing the bees will clean it up but have yet to re-draw and actually move back into it. I'm melt it out and start those frames over.

Good luck.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

db-land,


Your correct about shb not needing to pupate in the ground. I have been speaking of such matters for over a year and had previously made reference to this in the following thread,
http://www.beesource.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=006138#000003 

A couple points concerning your original post....

I find it interesting that your bees are v-mite free, or so as claimed. I am not questioning your comment, just the basis for the comments. Are you sure? Are you mite counting? The reason I ask is that some of my best mite resistant hives are also my best shb defended hives. You may have a case of mites assimulating themselves into the hive. It is documented that shb's take on the smell of the hive and the bees will actually feed the shb. If this is the case, making your hive stronger or other attempts may fail without some outside "chemical" treatment, or other measures.

Some points....

Hives in shade causes problems with almost all pests and deseases. Get them in the sun.

shb will travel up to several miles in one day. They are very good fliers. 

Certain soils are better at shb pupating. Sandy soils seems like they allow easy life cycle completion. Clay soils do help, but since life cycles can complete within the hive or stores boxes, the ground in just one item to consider.

The shb lavae are great at crawling. Concrete slabs and rubber sheets provide little resistance. Sprinkling borax at the esge of the rubber sheet of at the edge of the concrete may help.

I do use sbb, but they are for the most part without pullouts. I just converted most of my solids to sbb, so there really is no more "area" for the shb to hide. I think doing away with the benefits of sbb would be a mistake. The shb just are taking advantage of the area of opportunity, but without this area, they would just take advantage of the next area presented.

Like v-mites and other pests, some hives are better at dealing with shb. It is something to consider with efforts of breeding. I personally feel that the longtime efforts to have "nice" bees has taken away some of the bees natural pest fighting capabilities. I don't want mean bees, but I don't want bees that can not handle a few beetles either.

[ September 01, 2006, 02:01 PM: Message edited by: BjornBee ]


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## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

it seems to me that the methods of trapping beetles I've read about all contain two elements

1} a space where the beetles can reach but the bees can't, presumably the bees chase or "corral" them there

2) some killing agent. 
I can't spell coumo-whatchamacallit so I'm left with FGMO or DE

all the reports I see involve people saying the bees are "corraling" the beetles on the inner cover or in the upper corner of the hive
why doesn't somebody build a trap into the inner cover?
it would be much more protected from the weather, as far as rain getting into the killing agent
maybe I'll whip one together and get you to test it next year db, so far I'm still not bothered by them
(next year might be a different tale)  

Dave


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## R.L. Bee (Mar 8, 2006)

I got two hives this spring that were moved out of the sandhills onto my place witch is A clay loam I had shb in both hives early on but have not saw any in the last two months, might still have them just not seeing them. The hives are also kept in direct sun.


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

thanks for the info db...


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I wonder if we don't need to start reconsidering the design of some of our equipement. We could make frames with no grooves in the bottom board and that eliminates a place that wax worms and SHB hide. We could try to eliminate other nooks and crannies, get rid of inner covers etc. All these nooks seem to be where the beetles hide.


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

Yes, and slides under screens with DE to kill the ones that hide seems to be effective for some.


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## Wee3Bees Apiary (Feb 21, 2006)

Fellow Beeks,

I have made quite a few observations regading SHB:

1. Don't use Rite-Cell Plastic Frames unless you have the time and inclination to completely fill in the gaps on the sides of the frames; you can't even count how many hive beetles get corraled in there (and the hive tool doesn't work).

2. IMHO - I, like Bjornbee, am convinced that SHB can and do pupate in the hive. They do not need to pupate in the ground. Their larvae are extremely fast when crawling away . . .

3. Build or buy equipment that doesn't have the bottom slot for foundation (buy a solid bottom, build it yourself, or fill in the gaps on the end with wax; same thing for the top bar too!).

4. If you make your own equipment make sure that you don't leave any gaps with the top bars and the super.

5. Don't use the metal frame spacers (don't laugh at this statement. Most new beekeepers don't realize you don't need them; using them gives the beetles a place to hide from the bees).

6. Cut a piece of wire from a coat hanger and add it to your hive equipment tools. You can use it to squish hive beetles while they are still hiding in a drawn cell. Have you noticed that they won't come out when they know you are going to squish them (they seem to know you won't mash the drawn comb).

7. Like Michael said, don't use inner covers; go to migratory covers (no beetles handing out on the inner cover if you don't have one).


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## kenpkr (Apr 6, 2004)

"Have you noticed that they won't come out when they know you are going to squish them (they seem to know you won't mash the drawn comb)."

Yes, I've been marveling with disgust at this survival trait they seem to possess. They seem to be pretty clever at evading and running from the hive tool weapon. But I am glad that they don't all just fly away when chased. Then I wouldn't get the pleasure of crushing them.


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

wee three adds:
5. Don't use the metal frame spacers (don't laugh at this statement. Most new beekeepers don't realize you don't need them; using them gives the beetles a place to hide from the bees).

tecumseh reply:
absolutely and thank God for gorrilla glue. he did invent the stuff....right?


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## db_land (Aug 29, 2003)

BjornBee: Sorry I missed your post about shb larvae pupating in the hive. I think this makes shb a more serious problem for all beeks. The past few months I checked the bottom insert for my home yard hives and found zero mites. The shb deadouts had no mites on bottom boards or inserts. Bees may feed shb but my observation is that the bees act very aggressively toward the beetles. I've seen a worker bee successfully grab (by curling around it) a shb that I was chasing with the hive tool. It flew off with it. Most often I find shb (I've seen 12 all corraled together) in a corner (top and/or bottom). The only reason the shb deadout hives are in the shade beside a pond is that is where the farmer wanted them out of the way of his equipment. In future, I will not put hives in this location unless a better site is provided. Thanx for the idea about borax - the problem is it last only until the next rain. I've seen shb duck down below the sbb while being chased by a bee. They come up in a different location. I like sbb too but these are difficult/impossible for the bees to defend against shb. Maybe leaving the insert in and coating it with something like DE would work, but then you lose the ventilation benefit anyway. I think we need to reduce the hiding places for shb or at least make the hiding places a death trap for them. I agree with your comments about breeding and "nice" bees. 

Dave: I'd be happy to test any traps you design. How about using DE as the killing agent? You like helping fellow beeks so you don't need to wait until shb becomes a problem for you.

MB and Wee3Bees: I think getting rid of nooks and crannies is good. I too have stopped using the frame spacers and will henceforth use only solid bottom-bar frames. In house removals that I've done, the bees have propolized every crack or hole that they can't get into. I wonder why they don't propolize the bottom groove in langstroth frames? I still use an inner cover but allow the bees full access to the space between it and the top (a lot of shb get corraled here). Like the idea of using a coat hangar or the head of a small nail to kill the adult shb hiding in cells.

Do shb go through a population explosion at some particular time of year? Seems like this happened late July in my hives. Are shb adults attracted to hives where shb larvae are active? Could a few mashed up shb larvae act as trap bait for shb adults? I took a shb adult out of a hive, closed up the hive, walked about 10 feet away and released it. It immediately, directly flew back to it's 'home' hive and went into the entrance (the guards tried to stop it but could not). There was another hive about 5 feet to the left. Seems like some kind of entrance trap would work: The shb don't fly directly into the entrance, but land on the hive a few inches away and essentually dash through the entrance. Sometimes they have to make a couple of attempts in order to evade guard bees.

Thanks to all,


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

db land ask:
I wonder why they don't propolize the bottom groove in langstroth frames?

tecumseh replies:
well when I have a hive that is strong enough... mine do. A strong active hive will fill in the slot until there is really no place for the shb to lurk. My problems invarible occur on those hive that are not so strong. 

in regards to breeding 'nice bees' ... it was not that long ago that the buzz in the industry was the idea of breeding a bee that did not (or did at a much reduced level) propolize. Seemed to me like a stange idea then, sounds almost insane now. Much like Bjorn (woa did I say that) I suspect we are suffering now from some of the not so distant past's short sighted breeding decision which placed way too much focus on breeding them to be 'gentle as a lamb'.


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

As to screened bottoms,
I thought the thinking was that beetles don't like the light so letting some light in the screened bottom is good? 

I still have a few inner covers on a few hives and have noticed the beetles in them. One hive had a feeder jar on the inner cover hole with empty super then lid. There were lots of beetle larvae between the jar lid and inner cover feeding on the stuff in there. 

This configuration is working out better for me=
getting rid of the inner cover, with a top entrance to let in light and let out moisture, along with a hole in the top for a feeder jar.


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## SweetBettyBees (Jun 19, 2006)

I've seen several references here to shb coming and going throught the sbb. Has anyone tried a smaller mesh screen? Seems like a mite could drop through a grid that was sufficiently small to deter a shb, and air flow wouldn't be reduced appreciably. Even window screen would do the job, and could be stapled right over the existing screen. This seems like such a simple and obvious trick that I must be missing something.


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

I don't think a mite would fit through window screen, but you could try.


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## Hillside (Jul 12, 2004)

I haven't heard of small hive beetles this far north although I expect at some point I will. Which states have problems with these things so far?


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## db_land (Aug 29, 2003)

SweetBettyBees: I think window screen would get clogged up pretty quick. Adult SHB can't fit through #10 (10 squares per inch) screen but I don't know where this size could be bought. I'm thinking of solid inserts that go above the screen that can be temporarily removed to do mite drop counts. I know, that negates the ventilation feature of SBB.

All the hive beetles I've observed entering a hive via the bee entrance 1st land on the hive and then crawl through the entrance. Has anyone, seen a beetle fly directly through the entrance like a bee? Can a shb hover like a bee? If they always crawl through, then there is probably an bee-entrance-shb-trap design that would catch nearly all adult shb trying to enter the hive (assuming all other ways of getting in are effectively blocked). Taking advantage of the shb's hard, inflexible body, it should be possible to design a trap that they can easily enter but never exit.


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## Panhandle Bee man (Oct 22, 2003)

Here's some information I have been able to glean on shb:

Worst time for infestations is mid July thru Aug
For every adult shb in your hive, there are at least 20 more living in the nearby woods
The west hive trap works, place them on your weakest hives (2-3 per yard). No need for every hive to have a trap. Caveat hive has to be level, and the oil replaced frequently.
USDA/U of FL have developed attractant yeasts to trap adult shb, problem no one wants to market the yeasts (build your own trap simular to Yellow Jacket trap)
In the labratory larva have been able to pupate in borax, and DE, but not dehydrated lime (yes the larva's skin is that tough)
Hives need full sunlight. 
Honey house rules: 50/50! 50 degrees F and/or 50% humidity. Air conditioner, and/or dehumidifer, and box fans needed if you cant immediately extract.


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## Cody Anbeachaire (Apr 11, 2006)

Very helpful discussion. Thanks everyone.

Here in SE Texas, our beetle problem has multiplied greatly and we are now lousy with shb.  

Ive made a few mistakes and have learned hard lessons. Here is what Ive discovered:

	Strong colonies will not clean shb fouled comb for you
	Division board feeders equal shb holiday resorts
	Shade v. Sun: shb reduction costs gallons of perspiration
	Screened BB provides easy escape route for shb

With these experiences well scorched on the back of my eyeballs, I have decided to try a few different ideas and would like to ask the learned denizens of this invaluable forum for feedback.

1. In addition to my regular pale feeders, I wish to give entrance feeders a try.
2. Instead of using 1/8 wire mesh for Screened BB, use a larger 1/4 mesh to allow the bees to continue the chase.

I also have interest in corrugated plastic board soaked in FGMO or vinegar.
Does anyone have any experience with this? How would one apply it?

Cheers.


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## Robert166 (Mar 12, 2005)

I want to weigh in on this too. I have had a SHB problem for 2 years. Here is what I did to kill these pests. They are not completely gone but are under control now. 
#1 I bought West beetle traps and Hood traps. West work far better, because of a few reasons. They are on the bottom where most of the beetles enter and try to hide. Also the West will catch other larva like wax moth.{which were alive inside the oil when I cleaned it Sunday, strange I thought to my self}.And you don't have to open the hive to clean and inspect the trap.
#2 I modified my SBB to fit over the West and that allows me to remove it like a sticky board from the rear. Which I like a lot also.
#3 The Hood did catch some beetles, but not like the West. The girls started to build comb around it and propalize the opening of the trap making it less effective. So I removed them.
#4 Don't give the beetles any room to roam. I removed any supers that weren't filled at least 50-75%. And combined them to reduce the size of the hive. Girls didn't seem to mind at all.

In my limited opinion the SHB is here to stay. I will keep my West trap on until winter. Then put back on in the spring. All the other factors listed here are probably correct where they come from, how they reproduce, sunlight or shade, I don't know, but what I do know is the west beetle trap works very well for me.Just my 2 cents worth.


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## hrogers (Dec 16, 2000)

[ September 18, 2006, 11:49 PM: Message edited by: hrogers ]


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## magnet-man (Jul 10, 2004)

I know one package and queen producer in Mississippi uses a powder coumaphos to treat SHB. The powder is put on the lip that the frames rest on. I used to know the name of the product he uses. It is cattle tick product some of you rancher beekeepers probable know the name. I dont think I would use this technique myself.


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## magnet-man (Jul 10, 2004)

[ September 16, 2006, 10:57 PM: Message edited by: magnet-man ]


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## mobees (Jul 26, 2004)

I was checking a few hives this weekend and noticed, 3 hive beetles taking refuge in a Pierco 1 piece Black frame in the grooved edges. I love these frames but after seeing them in the grooves, I am concerned that these frames grooves act as a refuge
for beetles. With 10 frames in a box there are many hiding places to get away from the house bees.


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## kenpkr (Apr 6, 2004)

Mobees, I'm not familiar with pierco frames but is it possible for you to fill those gaps? You could fill them with melted wax or even push some crumpled wax into the crevices- anything to fill them up so the shb can't hide there.


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## R.L. Bee (Mar 8, 2006)

Magnet-Man I think that is corral.The same chemical that Check Mite is made out of.Anyone fell free to correct me if I'me wrong. (Coumophos)chemical name


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## Bob Harrison (Mar 15, 2005)

R.L.Bee,
corral is biggest contaminator of beeswax ever used in a bee hive according to Jeff Pettis of the bee lab.
Coumaphos in the form of a chemical strip is the next!
Comb that has had apistan (fluvalinate) & Checkmite( choumaphos) used creates a contamination issue (according to the bee lab) worse than either used by itself.
After using both apistan & checkmite and talking to Jeff pettis I changed all my comb. The bees never looked better.
Contaminated wax is a suttle thing according to Jeff except in cases where corral has been used. Such as cases the lab looked at in Florida where corral had been used.
Those on beesource which have attended national conventions and heard Jeff Pettis give presentations know the above is true.


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## magnet-man (Jul 10, 2004)

The only Cor-ral that I have sen are the ear tags. I have never seen it as a powder.


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## mobees (Jul 26, 2004)

The frames are one piece frames you can get from betterbee or other vendor. The are great frames and I have many. We don't or didn't have a hive beetle problem here in Mass/Me. Every year more are showing up. I have killed a hundred or so this year. I have half wood/wax and Pierco frames. Again tonight I noticed 2 beetles crawling inside the groove of the frame where it is molded. It just bothers me that the bees can't chase them out.


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## db_land (Aug 29, 2003)

Is the West shb trap practical for 60-100 hives? How much does it cost and how much labor/time per hive is involved in maintaining it? Is there a way to make a homemade version that could be integrated with the SBB?

I'm thinking of replacing the SBB inserts to seal off the area under the screen from outside access. If I coat the insert with something that kills any varroa that fall through and catches any shb that fall/run onto it, it could be worth the lost ventilation. 

I havn't heard about any new research going on with SHB. Has anyone heard anything lately? A bacteria like BT to kill the shb larvae would be great.


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## beegee (Jun 3, 2003)

db...several of us are considering making our own beetle traps combined with a SBB. I think I can use food-service plastic,metal or fiberglass trays, or failing that, make shallow trays of galvanized or aluminum sheet, using a sheet-metal brake, which I am in the process of purchasing to make hive covers. The only disadvantage of the west trap in that the hive must be perfectly level. Since you don't have to worry about slanting the hive front-to-back with SBB like you do with solid bottom boards, leveling should be easy.


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## Janice Lane (Feb 5, 2006)

I made some using aluminum cookie sheets...just make sure bees have no way to get into the oil. I had to change them a couple of times before I had a trap that worked without killing bees. Mine can be removed from the back as well. I had to build a a box like structure under the SBB using scrap wood and cheap luan particle board. They work great now so far. They're drowning beetles, larva, moths, and the occassional ****roach. It only cost $3 for the cookie sheet.

[ September 25, 2006, 06:43 PM: Message edited by: Janice Lane ]


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## Robert166 (Mar 12, 2005)

>Is the West SHB trap practical for 60-100 hives? 
They cost 11.95 from Brushy Mt. Some suggest not having to put them on every hive, I only have 4 hives so the cost wasn't a big issue for me.

But considering what is a hive worth? SSBs are about the same price, a good super is about the same price.

I figure one could be made like Janice said, by using a cookie sheet or something that would fit under a SBB and seal of the SBB to keep the girls out.

But the SBB I got from Betterbee some of the girls can fit threw the screen!

<I'm thinking of replacing the SBB inserts to seal off the area under the screen from outside access. If I coat the insert with something that kills any varroa that fall through and catches any shb that fall/run onto it, it could be worth the lost ventilation. 

If the girls cant get threw the screen it could work. I have stapled window screen across the rear to keep the girls out and still have ventilation. But that is a pain when I check the tray inside and have to pull the screen off. Been thinking about making a screen door for the rear. One that flips up or down, haven't gotten to it yet though.


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## sc-bee (May 10, 2005)

I don't own a west trap, only seen one once. Seems I read on the forum somewhere about a problem with rain water sometimes getting in the trap and overflowing it. Anyone experience this???


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## db_land (Aug 29, 2003)

I like the sealed off cookie sheet idea. To avoid the leveling problem maybe fill it with Diatomaetuous Earth instead of oil or a slurry/gel mix of FGMO and DE (like quicksand) or something that attracts SHB.

If we could get a friendly spider to move in a fill the whole area with web, that might work. Maybe some of the materials engineers out there can invent a bug velcro?


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## Janice Lane (Feb 5, 2006)

If anyone's interested I will post some pictures and plans. The main downside I have noticed is it is hard to make mite counts. I will probably do sugar rolls to make mite counts. I have thought about using diatomatous earth instead of oil, but I wasn't sure it it would kill the beetles and mites. I haven't had any problems with water getting into the trap so far. I would think it would be hard for that much water to enter a hive unless it had a hole in the top.

[ September 26, 2006, 07:03 PM: Message edited by: Janice Lane ]


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## PA Pete (Feb 2, 2005)

I'd like to see what it looks like Janice


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## GaSteve (Apr 28, 2004)

From my limited experience, I still think SHB won't bring down a strong hive. However, I have had a couple hives go queenless and get weak to the point where some wax moth damage was evident. I still never saw more than 5 or 6 adult beetles and no larva in the hives. I'm starting to think the fire ants have something to do with it. Once while requeening, I dropped the queen I killed. In less than 30 seconds, she was covered in ants. I'm convinced that any SHB larva that come out of the hive are doomed within seconds of hitting the ground. I wouldn't wish fire ants on anyone, but maybe they do actually serve a purpose.

SHB absolutely love pollen patties. The one time I tried using patties, not only did it attract every beetle in the hive, but they were all paired up in the mating position. Given that, I would think some very simple homemade traps could be devised that use a miniature pollen patty for bait and surround it with Tanglefoot to trap the beetles kind of like the Roach Motel. I'll have to add that to my project list.

Also, a blunt pencil works very well for killing beetles hiding in cells.


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## sc-bee (May 10, 2005)

There is research being done now on a bait for a trap---but will it attract everyone else's problems???


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## GaSteve (Apr 28, 2004)

>I would think some very simple homemade traps could be devised that use a miniature pollen patty for bait and surround it with Tanglefoot to trap the beetles kind of like the Roach Motel.

So much for that idea. Dr. Hood spoke at the GA Beekeepers conference this weekend and said some of their first attempts at SHB traps used Tanglefoot. The adult SHB could actually walk through it! It obviously slowed them down, but it didn't stop them.

They eventually moved on to the current Hood beetle trap that uses cider vinegar as the attractant and mineral oil to keep the beetles from walking out of the trap.

The USDA is working on a SHB attractant now that is made from a yeast that is created by the SHB larva. No one's sure just yet how well it's going to work.


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## sc-bee (May 10, 2005)

One concern about an attractant is: Will you be luring SHB to your hive by using an attractant. Similar to luring Japanese Bettle to a trap in your yard.


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## magnet-man (Jul 10, 2004)

> Dr. Hood spoke at the GA Beekeepers conference this weekend and said some of their first attempts at SHB traps used Tanglefoot. The adult SHB could actually walk through it!


I wonder how flypaper would work? I only had SHB in one hive last year so I cant test it.


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## Bob Harrison (Mar 15, 2005)

GaSteve,
I agree that SHB will not bring down a strong hive.

For those on the list which have not yet seen SHB, larva or a slimed hive consider what I am about to say.

Also researchers want funds to study everything and document everything. One needs to read between the lines. 

A couple people are going to meetings around the country with "gloom & doom" about SHB. 

What I have observed after eight years looking at SHB in hives.

1. in areas of SHb they can be found in most hives but cause no real problem and DO NOT lay eggs.

2. In those areas they will lay eggs and slim a queenless hive or weak hive BUT ONLY at the time of year they are trying to reproduce. EXACTLY LIKE THE WAX MOTH DOES.

In my operation we are lax about dealing with weak hives until I get wax moth in my bait hive. Then I drop what ever I am doing and get all deadouts picked up and weak hives combined.

Two of my friends which are dealing with SHB say the same method works for SHB.

Its almost like a big switch has been turned on and all the SHB decide they have only got a couple weeks to lay eggs.

Strong hives trumps traps & lures in my opinion!


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## sc-bee (May 10, 2005)

Very well put ROB!!!


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