# Bear - proof



## Chrissy Shaw (Nov 21, 2006)

*Sounds extreme*

If you have one hive, you might fiddle around and come up with a bear proof design. If you try to set up a yard with so much effort i hope you own the bank. You too will want in there sooner or later. You can set concrete posts and make a reverse bear cage, that would be an enclosure including the top that is covered in cyclone fencing and a locked gate with a HUGE chain. That is how bears are kept inside in some cases, in this case they are fenced out. You would need a concrete footing to avoid digging by a bear. 

I again say this is too elaborate a solution. Black bears that have not raided bee yards are almost always kept out by a well kept electric fence. Polywire gives the best bite and some are very effective with up to seven strands of copper wire weaved in the poly. I went to the National Forest Service to see what they had as a bear fence idea and was presented with the use of polywire and spacing, beginning at the ground plus six inches. Every six inches another polywire up to four feet. That requires one keep the ground under the wire very free of growth. In dry areas, as where i live, an extra measure of a chiken wire mat, set with wire staples on the ground outside the fence is recomended. This matt is attached to the ground post by a wire and provides a sure bite even when the ground is not productive in the soil. Placing a ground wire on the fence is not recomended in that bears can learn that pressing the wires together end the zap. 

Any space in an electric fence where an animal gets their eyes past the wire before the shock will allow the animal to move forward rather than back. The reason the six inch wire from the ground is used is to prevent a cub from breeching the fence. A good bee yeard should not have a cub inside and mama outside when you arrive...lordy that would be dangerous.

A twelve volt chager run with a deep cycle battery will run a fence such as this with a great charge if the battery is changed out and recharged every two weeks. It will if the greens under the fence are kept off the wires. The other area to avoid is near a tree that could be bent over the fence. Black bears sometimes sleep in trees, they can climb easily to twenty feet and jump into a yard. A good clearance is important.

That is a proper bear fence. We did with less years ago, but these days i am not so adventurous. I surely would use my skills and money to build such a fence if you can. 

Chrissy


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## BeekeeperBill (Mar 7, 2007)

*bears*

Have you seen any discovery video footage of bears tearning stuff up? I doubt I could make anything out of wood they couldn't splinter with one swipe.


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## MountainCamp (Apr 12, 2002)

What are the hive boxes made out of?

How are you protecting the hives?

It sounds like you are trying to bolt / tie down the hives to the base under the impression or asumption that the bear will not simply destroy the boxes to get at what he wants.

I had a dumpster that I lock the covers down on. The bear simply push the dumpster on to its side and "V" the side till he was able to reach what he wanted.

I think that it would be a lot less work and energy to build a well baited electric fence.


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## livetrappingbymatt (Jan 13, 2006)

*bears!*

they seem to be more and more a problem in our yards.i wish more people would hunt them during the season also on that list is a southern tier season?
bob


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## Korny's Korner (Mar 25, 2007)

Anybody out there willing to share bear fencing ideas. If I'm going to expand like I would like I have to stop the bears.


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## joy2005 (Jan 8, 2007)

try hanging empty sardines cans on electric fencing around your hives


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## berkshire bee (Jan 28, 2007)

I think you would have to make the entire hive (hive bodies,frames, foundation) out of concrete. I've see a bear that had gotten my sister's dumpster. After chained and locked the cover, he returned a few days later and just bent to cover of the dumpster up like he or she was opening a pop top can. I'd say a good electric fence, even one inside the other a few feet a part if you need to. Tony


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## MountainCamp (Apr 12, 2002)

I keep bees in the Northern Catskill's of New York State. We have a healthy bear polulation and see them or their evidence on a daily basis.

I have been hit by bears numerous times over the last 11 years. In fact bears are the reason that I got into beekeeping.

I have never had a bear get to a hive that was behind a properly baited and operating electric fence. When I have had problems there has been a malfunction of the fence system.

Trying to build a fence that will keep a bear out simply by a mechanical barrier, will fail 9 times out of 10 and will be very expensive.

The simplest fence, (4) "T" post, 3 strands of wire, a GOOD charger and some nice bait, will stop almost any bear.

The trick is to get the bear(s) educated that the fence is painful and that there is nothing worth the shock. The bait needs to be placed such that it's smell with attract the bear to that point in the fence, take a "pre" meal snack and get smacked. 

He will then be trained that this is not worth it. I have had people call me to tell me that there is a bear sitting in front of a group of hives just looking at them. 

I have also had a bear after getting to a hive because of a malfunction comeback. You can see that they came back and left quickly.

This bear has been schooled and learned that it is not worth the pain.


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## MountainCamp (Apr 12, 2002)

Have your sister put the dumpster on (4) tires to insulate and then hook a fence charger to the dumpster.

Just make sure your dumpster guy knows what your doing and does not just showup.


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

Call your local wildlife official and get a bear permit.....If you don't want to hunt them find somebody who does and give the permit to them....Only down side is to get the permit you will have to prove that they are damaging your property.....Talk to Fish and Game....they might have some ideas for you.


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## mwjohnson (Nov 19, 2004)

Hey Mountain Camp...
What'da mean "bears are the reason that I got into beekeeping"?
I've heard of lot's of reason's to start keeping bees...mine was "no plums"...but "bears"?

And,Focus on bees....while you might be able to make something like your talking,a fence is most likely your best bet,IMHO.

I think you need over 5000v and 1 joule stored and keep it baited good to get the message across.
I use CSShaws 6" spacing too.
Take the time to build it right.
Lightning arrestors, good grounds,tensioners,strainers and all that stuff.

Mark


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## dickm (May 19, 2002)

I've seen a bear go through the side of a camper. I don't think weight or bulk will help.

dickm


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## Focus on Bees (Mar 6, 2006)

Thanks for all the input. I understand that an electric fence is the way to go, I only was curious if it was even possible to make something that they couldn't destroy.

I have a nice fence set up, but would like to beef up my fencer. That dang thing took a hit maybe from lightening? and now it ticks real loud and sporadic. Its a solar one worth about .15j I would like to get one of those 100 mile fencers like in the Tractor Supply Store. I think its got like 6 joules. That oughta just about kill 'em. Tractor Supply Company - ZAREBA LOW IMPEDANCE 100 MILE FENCER


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I think its got like 6 joules. That oughta just about kill 'em. Tractor Supply Company - ZAREBA LOW IMPEDANCE 100 MILE FENCER

I've got several of them and I've been shocked on them. It won't kill you but you will wish it had...


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

{I've got several of them and I've been shocked on them. It won't kill you but you will wish it had...}

Pretty Funny MB, moreso when it's happening to you than me.!  I've been there a few times myself. The worst was when I was knealing with my knees on the wet ground with nuc right next to the fence. My hive tool conected and the next thing I knew I was looking up at the sky with a smile on my face! I'm certain it stopped my heart. I can't imagine being a bear sticking my toungue on the bacon but I have heard the sound they make a few times. It is usually accompanied by a large pile in the immediate vicinity.

Gotta love TSC!


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## Oldbee (Sep 25, 2006)

WOW! After reading all that I am grateful I don't have BEARS around to molest my hives.


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## MountainCamp (Apr 12, 2002)

Shortly after we purchased our home, our neighbor who had helped us out quite a bit, asked for some help.
He needed help moving (5) hives from a keepers place who passed to his orchard.
It took us (3) nights to move (5) hives as they were in bad shape. The last hive moved was a double garbage bag as there were so many holes and cracks we could not cover them all.
It took the bear (2) nights to find the hives. 
I asked my wife about putting “a” hive in our fenced in garden to help out our neighbor, she said fine. 
Now 11 years and 40 plus hives later, here we are.
The kick is, the old keepers family sold all of his equipment to another local keeper, who sold everything he bought and had to me when he retired. His son bought the house where we moved the hives from, and I have had hives back there for the last (4) years.


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## longarm (Apr 21, 2006)

*MMMmmm..*

Spring bear makes great roasts..
and a rug to boot!


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## Chrissy Shaw (Nov 21, 2006)

*When i worked for JZ*

About fences: When i worked for JZs-BZs, there was a yard that had a bull in it. They had a real fine eletric frncer in the barn, so the trick was to get out, unplug the fencer, then head to the yard. Well i unplugged it and headed out to the pasture where the bees were, got out and grabbe the two ends of his wire handles and BOOM! I dropped them, stepped back and sat on the bumber i hurt so bad down to the bone.

The farmer had come in and assumed one of Jim's no-account employees has left the fencer unplugged, so he had plugged it back in. I understand why the bears have respect for the fence. I never like that yard, up in the plums was the bull and i think he thought about giving me a jolt or two for stirring up the bees.

Chrissy


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## Sport (Dec 11, 2006)

If you are interested in bear proofing something, check out this guy who has spent years developing a bear proof suit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy_Hurtubise#Recent_activities

Here is a video of him in the suit taking all kinds of abuse

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3CzYw5-qdA


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## Korny's Korner (Mar 25, 2007)

bluegrass said:


> Call your local wildlife official and get a bear permit.....If you don't want to hunt them find somebody who does and give the permit to them....Only down side is to get the permit you will have to prove that they are damaging your property.....Talk to Fish and Game....they might have some ideas for you.


Wildlife officials are the reason for the bear problem. They have been releasing problem bears in the state game lands. In the past they never were a problem.
Pa. bear season is only 2 or 3 days.
Erie Co. where I live is not considered prime bear country not enough hunters.
Bears are close to the community and most of good land is posted. Thanks to hunters not respecting peoples property.

Looking at solar chargers at Tractor supply but didn't know if they had enough juice to keep bears away????


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## Focus on Bees (Mar 6, 2006)

There is some great stories out there LoL..... maybe should start a link!!!
I was laughing so hard I almost fell out of my chair One I have is when we were kids....My brother was out trying to impress some of the neighbor girls, who all had crushes on him. He stood on a plastic pail earlier and then touched the fence, See....Nothing.... Well, with all the attention, he forgot to get both feet onto the pail. He grounded out nicely !! Talk about laugh..It was hilarious...


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

Korny's Korner said:


> most of good land is posted. Thanks to hunters not respecting peoples property.


 Actually it has more to do with money. Hunting leases are big business in states like NJ, PA, WV, KY, etc. They often post the property in order to offer exclusive hunting rights.


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## bleta12 (Feb 28, 2007)

*bear problem*

Last fall my best bee yard got hit by a bear, damage 6-7 hives, moved all bees to different location, left few empty suppers and the beer checked those out too. The farmer told me that the beer was on the move because did some damage to the neighbours.

Because that was my best bee yard, protected from wind, excellent matting yard, excellent overwintering place, I am tempted to put some bees again this spring. This place is next to the woods, preferred places by beers. I do have other options on the farm, more open area but less protected by wind.
Should I put the bees in the same spot with a good electric fence (my first), or move the location on more open area and still put a fence?
Any advice please? 

Gilman


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## Ardilla (Jul 17, 2006)

If the bear have learned that there are bees in that location, a fence may not work. They will go to great lengths to get at a known food source. I would move to the new location and build a fence.


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## MountainCamp (Apr 12, 2002)

Originally Posted by *Korny's Korner*  
_most of good land is posted. Thanks to hunters not respecting peoples property._


>Actually it has more to do with money. Hunting leases are big business in states like NJ, PA, WV, KY, etc. They often post the property in order to offer exclusive hunting rights.

It has to also do with many people who are buying "vacation" homes & land, don't hunt and don't like hunting. The lawyers and liability have also added to the problem.

Hunting or not, it only take one bear in the right place to end your season if your hives are protected.


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## MountainCamp (Apr 12, 2002)

*Bear conditioning*

If your yard has been hit once, the bear will be back. If it was a sow with cubs, her cubs will be back as well.

All of my yards have been hit at one time or another. Moving your hives to a new location, will not solve your bear problem, they will simply move with you.

What you need to do is retrain the bear and teach them that it is painful, very painful and unpleasant to get at your hives.

An electric fence that is well baited will retrain your problem and teach any new students as well.


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## Focus on Bees (Mar 6, 2006)

I was at our local Fleet Farm and they got a whompin' fencer in there. 15 joules with a 200 mile rating ouch!!!. Wow. (my birthdays gettin close!!) All for $295.00 and for my little bitty bee yard Hahaha


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## Jeffzhear (Dec 2, 2006)

Mountain, what do you bait your fences with? I am curious and how often do you rebait?


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## mwjohnson (Nov 19, 2004)

*That's a lota juice!*



Focus on Bees said:


> I was at our local Fleet Farm and they got a whompin' fencer i joules with a 200 mile rating ouch!!!:


That would be nice,for sure...and I'd like to have one.
But it's not a battery power,right? That seems to be typically the case

But hey,200 miles you say? I could reach my yard if I got a just a liiiittle more wire. 

Anybody know what's the biggest battery powered fencer out there? I need to get another for my first outyard. 
The one I have now is 20 mile,and 10,000v.,1 joule,and it really hurts if you forget or do something dumb.

Another question,the only tester I found locally uses neon lamps,you know the kind? It only reads to 5,000v(?)...so I swap batteries when the top(5000v)light stops lighting.
How do you check your fencers output?Is there something better?

Mark


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## MountainCamp (Apr 12, 2002)

I bait with beacon, hot dogs, anything that has some stink and will get the bears attention.

I rebait every couple of weeks or so.

I take a length of wire and wrap it around the hot wire forming a hook on the end. I hand my bait on the hook.

Hang it at about 12" - 18", you want the bear to smell the bait as he is traveling. He will come up and either smell it and get tagged on the end of his sensitive nose. The other option is he tries to take the bait and the hook end get him on the roof of the mouth.

He has been schooled.


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## Chrissy Shaw (Nov 21, 2006)

*Foil*

I have also hear that foil where nights get dew helps keep bacon smelling longer. Fence charger company told me that, never have tried it.

Chrissy


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## Focus on Bees (Mar 6, 2006)

CSShaw said:


> I have also hear that foil where nights get dew helps keep bacon smelling longer. Fence charger company told me that, never have tried it.
> 
> Chrissy



I would think it that it helps. Nice and shiney too. Anyone try the nylon woven "wire" or I guess ribbon fencing instead of wire? That should attract their attention too... Or try the Mega Fencer LoL hits em' if they get anywhere close.. Anyone have any idea how big is big when it comes to fencers ? Of course being a guy, the tools are never big enough  I tried to find the biggest solar fencer they made, but didn't have much time or luck on the net. I think the largest one was only a 20 mi one at maybe 1 joule.


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## Chrissy Shaw (Nov 21, 2006)

*Polywire is the very best*

They actually sell a seven strand copper wire one that is supposed to deliver 153 % more bite than any wire set-up. A twelve volt charger with deep cycle battery changes every two weeks will provide enough to cause you to know where those darn wires are that is for sure. It nailed me holding the fence tester when the ground was dry. I have no idea how many lights lit up on me, but i turn it off to set the tester now i assure you.

Chrissy


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## MichelleB (Jan 29, 2006)

Here's what I use. Easy to set up and portable. I do recommend picking up a few extra plastic step-in posts, or maybe four metal T-posts (the latter with insulators). 

Fencing Material:
http://www.premier1supplies.com/fencing.php?mode=detail&fence_id=83

Fence Energizer w/Solar:
http://www.premier1supplies.com/detail.php?prod_id=13027&cat_id=43

Bait: 
What MountainCamp said, but I also like to make foil packets containing sardines. You can hang the packets by wrapping a bit of the foil around the wire (bear nose level). Poke a few holes in the packets with a nail.

I've probably posted a few times about the first time I set up and baited this fence, but what the heck. As I was stepping in the corner posts, I heard my beau making happy noises over in the shade. Turns out he'd opened the cans of sardines, and was chowing down. He thought the bait was for snacking. 

Well, since we didn't have a fence charger at the time, it then fell on his shoulders to test the effectiveness of our bear deterrent system. Wanting very much to redeem himself, he grabbed hold of the fence and WHAM! Poor guy levitated a good two or three feet, and that arm was useless the rest of the day. 

I should also mention that the neighbor's dog--a big, thick-coated Akita/Chow looking thing--came up shortly after and sat against the fence. Shocked the poor mutt so badly, we could hear him howling the whole quarter mile back to his place. (I think the whole valley heard it, actually.)


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## sierrabees (Jul 7, 2006)

I stay away from the super high power chargers because the more power the longer and hotter a spark they can throw. I only use 1/2 joule on my bee yards and when properly baited they work fine. I quit using electric fence on my ranch for perimiter fence because I couldn't check the fencing often enough and I found it arcing to branches or brush about three times. We live in fire country and it just isn't worth the risk. I can keep my bee yards in more open space and frequent weed eating does the job. The bee yards are small enough that I can check the whole line every time I go there for shorts.

I have several rolls of electronet fencing which is easy to install and move but I have had a lot of trouble with grass growing up into it and shorting out. You have to move the fence to weed eat because the material is to weak to withstand a hit by the weed eater. Roundup helps, but I hate to use it very extensively. I only use it to section off small areas of open land where I want my goats to brush it out and don't leave it long enough for the weeds to grow back after I have cleared a path for the fence. Easy to install but hard to maintain except in open grassland. Also, if it does arc to something it usually burns up the section of netting that is arcing and that knocks out the whole run.

Priemier Supply that MB posted also has a test meter for electric fences that will read over 10,000 v. It is pricy but well worth the cost. I check the voltage every time I check a fenced yard.


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