# Bobcat with forklift mast, or without, vs Hummerbee!!!!!!!!



## BoTBees

What's your opinion?
What are the Advantages and Disadvantages?
Likes and Dislikes?
mobility and visibility?
Thanks, Bo.


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## BMAC

It all what you are used to and what you can afford. I have used skidsteers with forks only, Bobcats with forklift mast and HummerBees. The one true advantage of a machine with forklift mast is the sideways movement for loading and unloading on semis, however if you buy a skidsteer without you will be just fine and figure out how to compensate for it.


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## beeware10

depends on how much you want to spend. a skid steer is low end vs hummerbee upper end. a used skid steer is with forks is 1/4 the cost. I would not put a mast on a skid steer. a skid steer is slower but will get the job done. we have a new holland and like it. It is rated at 1200 # but only weighs 4500 #. remember the loader and trailer takes away what you can haul. everything you buy should pay for itself. start low end and work up later if needed.


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## Keith Jarrett

beeware10 said:


> start low end and work up later if needed.


Very well said!



P.S. and lets not forget SWINGER 1K the premium grade bee mover.


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## sqkcrk

All of my experience w/ loaders is w/ Bobcats w/ arms, not a mast. I have been around Bobcats w/ masts. They can more easily load a semi than I can w/ a larger machine, especially when they have a fifth wheel.

Can't say anything about other loaders. Except that they are easier to get into and out of than Bobcats.


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## BMAC

1 more thing I have to add is skidsteers DONT come with ag tires and are easily stuck and very frustrating when they become stuck with 2 pallets of bees on the forks. I do like Keith pointed out Swingers. Both Swingers and HummerBees have psuedo ag tires on them and both easily pass thru mud and slop where skidsteers get stuck. They too will eventually become stuck but less easy than skid steers. We have even used a HummerBee to pull out a 33K truck that was stuck.


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## dback

I started on a bobcat with arms.....tough way to go. We run several bobcats now but all with mast, 5th wheel and "floatation" tires. Works very well, don't need side shift and does not tear up your loading yard and as others have said......much cheaper if it is a sound machine. If you are going to be driving bees any distance from the trucks, the swinger/hummer are faster and safer for the bees. Hummer sure is a nice machine.......makes you look more professional 

edit: visibility is much better on the hummer/swinger but never been a problem for us with the bobcat....all in what you're accustomed to.


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## BoTBees

Thanks all!!!!!
Are bobcats easier to turn when u have a fifth wheel on them? I've looked everywhere, out of curiosity, but where do u get the fifth wheel from?


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## BMAC

Bobcats are easier to turn and they are more precise when turning with the 5th wheel on. You can run pretty fast with that 5th wheel.


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## sqkcrk

BoTBees said:


> but where do u get the fifth wheel from?


David Hackenberg or Dave Mendes. Build your own. You are in FL. Look around and find some commercial bkprs and see what U find.


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## kokomodreamin

All I own is bobcats, but after watching my mich buddies run swingers , I would consider one if the price wasn't so high. Anyone can climb on and figure it out , a bobcat takes some learning to be smooth.


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## EastSideBuzz

Do you think this kind of Bobcat would do the job? http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/grq/2977459962.html


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## jim lyon

Absolutely, I have moved a lot of bees with one almost identical to it. That seems really, really cheap. With so few hours seems like that with the trailer and the attachments should sell for a whole lot more. Bear in mind that equipment isn't titled though trailers are.


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## Trevor Mansell

That ad is a scam on craigslist, just a little friendly warning.


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## jim lyon

That setup really should be selling for 20,000 plus. Seems pretty suspicious for sure.


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## odfrank

Trevor Mansell said:


> That ad is a scam on craigslist, just a little friendly warning.


And has been running for years, other types of tractors also.


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## Tim Stewart

I'm running one of those sod lifts that mounts on the back of a truck, picked it up for 3K. They are lighter than a hummer and can handle more weight.


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## jim lyon

How much do they weigh Tim?


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## acbz

Tim Stewart said:


> I'm running one of those sod lifts that mounts on the back of a truck, picked it up for 3K. They are lighter than a hummer and can handle more weight.


That like a Donkey lift? Does the extra wide wheelbase seem to be much of a problem?


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## jim lyon

Here is a nugget for you Keith. Acbz sent me this link to Donkey Lift for beekeeping. http://donkeyforklift.com/beekeeping.html


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## Keith Jarrett

nugget... lol lol 

I looked into those a couple years ago, notice the nice smooth lawn to load on. These machine are not built for rough use.


P.S. Jimmy, great come back. (nuggets) love this board.


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## jim lyon

I just thought it was kind of interesting especially since I spent a good part of my day yesterday fixing up trailer wiring. Didnt expect it to impress someone who is throughly invested in the "cult of the Swinger" though.


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## Keith Jarrett

jim lyon said:


> "cult of the Swinger" though.


HA.... funny thing, Tom mention, A close freind of mine barrowed the swinger 1K demo machine in the almonds for a few days. These guys place about 30 semi loads of bees. They also have (run) the same machine as you do Jimmy, they said at the end of the day, WOW next machine.... SWINGER 1K.


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## Trevor Mansell

Kieth ,
Why did you chose the Swinger over the Hummerbee?


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## Keith Jarrett

Trevor, If you have not had a chance to jump on a 1K machine try to, they are the smoothest ride in town. There quite, more leg room, more power, more lift, flat out better built, easyer to maintance. Oh, I think $$$ cheaper too. This choice is a no brainer.


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## Trevor Mansell

Ive never seen one in person ,only in pictures. They just look allot bigger . I just haven't heard of many people going to them. I was just wondering how they stack up against the Hummerbee. I personally use a Bobcat ,Im thinking of changing because of the sand in Fl.


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## Keith Jarrett

Trevor,

http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy136/bzzztom/Swinger 1K/9e972150.jpg

http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy136/bzzztom/Swinger 1K/0824c0b2.jpg

http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy136/bzzztom/Swinger 1K/f8c01b03.jpg


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## greenbeekeeping

Hey Trevor they are Made in Eau Claire you could just stop by and look at one there. Only hour or so from Clear Lake


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## HarryVanderpool

I really didn't want to bee off topic, (Bobcat vs Hummerbee) but since my friend, Keith beat me to it:
If a forklift cannot do at least 60 MPH back to the truck, I have no use for it.
12 MPH, ARE YOU KIDDING ME??!!!
No thanks to Swinger, Hummerbee or Bobcat from me.
Time is money; I need a real forklift, and NO TRAILER!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/Shallotman/TheGrabber.jpg


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## sqkcrk

60 MPH? So, when you hit that one good bump the hive catapult over the cab instead of into your lap? What's your hurry? I guess y'all must have 4 or 5 semis to load before midnight?


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## Keith Jarrett

nothing like reading these post at 4:30 in the morning.  lol

Best way to start the day.


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## jim lyon

I hear ya, I'm gonna be nocturnal starting tomorrow, the bees are rolling north.


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## Trevor Mansell

HarryVanderpool said:


> I really didn't want to bee off topic, (Bobcat vs Hummerbee) but since my friend, Keith beat me to it:
> If a forklift cannot do at least 60 MPH back to the truck, I have no use for it.
> 12 MPH, ARE YOU KIDDING ME??!!!
> No thanks to Swinger, Hummerbee or Bobcat from me.
> Time is money; I need a real forklift, and NO TRAILER!
> 
> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/Shallotman/TheGrabber.jpg


I personally have a rule that my forklift shouldn't weigh more than my truck, Its just me call me crazy whatever thats just my rule.


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## dbest

Trevor, sounds like you need a bigger truck.


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## Trevor Mansell

My trucks are plenty big enough , but Im just moving pallets of bees not pallets of sod. Look at the size of the mast on that thing! It reminds me of one of those military forklifts .


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## HarryVanderpool

The Grabber weighs in at about HALF the weight of a Bobcat and trailer.
So don't use weight as an excuse to dilly-dally and lollygag around on a slow poke forklift! :no:


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## dbest

HarryVanderpool said:


> So don't use weight as an excuse to dilly-dally and lollygag around on a slow poke forklift! :no:


Have you got any video's of that thing in action?


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## EastSideBuzz

Keith Jarrett said:


> nugget... lol lol
> 
> I looked into those a couple years ago, notice the nice smooth lawn to load on. These machine are not built for rough use.
> 
> P.S. Jimmy, great come back. (nuggets) love this board.


I am sold on I need a swinger. But, wifey and checkbook are not so sold yet. So I figured for 5k I could get through this season and then have a toy to play with next year. Kind of thought it was way too cheap to be true. If I have good Almonds I should be able to buy it for next season. 

I met Keith and played on his also and it rocks. I want one so bad I can taste it. But, just spent 25k in bee's and boxes going to spend 10 on a truck next month etc so another 35 is not what the wife planned for us this year. I think she wants so see some income come in first. Imagine that.? Who does she think she is.?

Now Harrys rocks but, I think it is a custom job so don't think I can get one off the shelf. But really like the lack of trailer.


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## ScoutBee

sqkcrk said:


> 60 MPH? So, when you hit that one good bump the hive catapult over the cab instead of into your lap? What's your hurry? I guess y'all must have 4 or 5 semis to load before midnight?


I don't think you drive 60 with a load of hives. :scratch: It's for when you are making the trip back to the truck empty.


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## Trevor Mansell

HarryVanderpool said:


> The Grabber weighs in at about HALF the weight of a Bobcat and trailer.
> So don't use weight as an excuse to dilly-dally and lollygag around on a slow poke forklift! :no:


I don't know how much that thing weighs, but it looks a little more than 3500lbs.


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## dbest

ScoutBee said:


> I don't think you drive 60 with a load of hives. :scratch: It's for when you are making the trip back to the truck empty.


UM...I go well over most of the speed limits loaded...I thought everyone did. Its 4am and I have a big load of "don't pull me over".


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## sqkcrk

On your loader?


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## ScoutBee

dbest said:


> UM...I go well over most of the speed limits loaded...I thought everyone did. Its 4am and I have a big load of "don't pull me over".


You are really not understanding this are you?:scratch:


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## Keith Jarrett

More pis of 1K



















http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s35/CNHoney/Swinger001.jpg

Today I was moving my 53 ft van with the 1K, don't think it would have gotten done with a wanna Bee loader.


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## HarryVanderpool

Trevor Mansell said:


> I don't know how much that thing weighs, but it looks a little more than 3500lbs.


Thank you, Trevor for the compliment. It is "heavy duty" but not heavy. Thats called engineering.
I am aware that some fabricator's solution to all problems is to throw more steel at it. Not me.
And did you notice the wide track? While most apiary forklifts are way too tippy; just try to roll this rig. Give it your best shot.
You would have to veer off the side of the road over an embankment to roll the Grabber.
There is a story floating around about a local beekeeper that unloaded his brand new articulated forklift in his driveway which was on an incline and rolled it on its side within 20 feet of the trailer due to the incline and tippiness of his brand new rig.
A forklift with a wide track and very low center of gravity serves the beekeeper very well!


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## feltze

FYI, Bobcat has some articulated wheel machines, which make for a smoother turn less rutting things up.


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## UVBee

BMAC said:


> 1 more thing I have to add is skidsteers DONT come with ag tires and are easily stuck.


I run with both Bobcats (skidsteer) and Hummerbees. All of my Bobcats are fitted with 18" wide tires that help "float" on soft ground. With this set up, it's not easy to get stuck and if you do it's likely to get many other machines in the same predicament. While the 18's are not as aggressive as the tires on the other forklifts, they do the job well.


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## loggermike

Off topic a bit, but does anyone know the 'legality' of towing the towable lifts (like Harrys) in California?


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## Keith Jarrett

Hey Mike, didn't Pat H. run the same, at one time?


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## jim lyon

Yo Keith. I'll see your Swinger and raise you a Gehl. This sucker will pick up your loaded Swinger without a problem. Check out the price and the location. Less than you may have paid.
http://www.machinerytrader.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=8027787&


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## loggermike

Keith Jarrett said:


> Hey Mike, didn't Pat H. run the same, at one time?


 I got one of his old ones built from a chevy luv 4wd. Picked up another one built from a Nissan 4wd.
I saw several others being towed around during almonds ,so they are still being used. I like towing them locally rather than trailering, but never was sure about how legal that is. Maybe the cops dont know either.


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## HarryVanderpool

Mike, I am aquainted with a beekeeper in Glenn CA that has 5 towables. 3 Nissans and 2 double fork monsters made from Ford one tons. They do a lot of buisness loading and unloading and placing. None of their towables are licenced.
They have been in business for several years. Doesn't mean that's legal, but they are all over your area during almonds, unlicenced.
In Oregon, we licence ours as "Fixed Load Trailers" for one very good reason:
In Oregon, A fixed load trailer does not apply to your GCVW. This means that you can load your truck to the very last gram of it's licenced capacity AND tow the forklift. Or, if you are busted for overweight, the forklift is not part of the equasion. 
Goofy, but we'll take whatever we can get!


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## loggermike

Thanks for the info,Harry. I bet the double fork monster is fun, especially if you hit a bump!
Guess I will just keep on doing what I'm doing, and not worry about it till someone says different. I like the Oregon law.That would be helpful.


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## Keith Jarrett

jim lyon said:


> I'll see your Swinger and raise you a Gehl.


Ha... she a beast. Machinery trader... That's one right out of DBest page.


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## jim lyon

Keith Jarrett said:


> Ha... she a beast. Machinery trader... That's one right out of DBest page.


I figured you ran down to Santa Barbara and picked it up already. Throw a double set of pallet forks on that sucker and you could have ole Paul loaded with sub before he could even get his ropes untangled.


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## Trevor Mansell

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v514/benelli90p7/IMG_0247.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v514/benelli90p7/IMG_0244.jpg
Wollard makes equipment for the military ,not just our military either. I don't see how you can compare the Hummerbee to the Swinger, the Swinger is such a better built piece of equipment.


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## swarm_trapper

did you get one Trevor?


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## Keith Jarrett

Trevor Mansell;816359 I don't see how you can compare the Hummerbee to the Swinger said:


> HHmmm, Jimmy... you hear that?


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## Trevor Mansell

I know the swinger dosen't come in different colors, but when you look at the axels ,the articulation joint ,the thickness of the steel . The thing is built to last. Again I am not trying to pick on the Hummerbee but its basically a 30 year old design . Im only giving my 2 cents because I was going to buy a Hummerbee until I looked at the Swinger, and would advise anybody thinking about a new loader to take a good look at the Swinger.


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## Keith Jarrett

Trevor Mansell said:


> and would advise anybody thinking about a new loader to take a good look at the Swinger.


Well said Trevor, congrats on your new 1K machine.


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## jim lyon

Keith Jarrett said:


> HHmmm, Jimmy... you hear that?


Who needs a stinkin Swinger? If we dont catch some rainfall soon, I am thinking one of these may be all I need this year. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matchbox-19...st_Vehicles&hash=item2eb3bc8c55#ht_2142wt_907

Brian: Does that answer your question too?


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## Sadler91

Grew up on a bobcat with arms. Had a homemade fifth-wheel as well. I wasn't till 4 years ago that I got to drive a my buddies Hummerbee for the first time. Man what a difference! The hummerbee (or swinger) is the Cadillac of the beekeeping industry. Visibility, efficiency, and virtually no learning curve. If you got the money, I would swing for the hummerbee. But, if your like me who dont have the money layin around, get yourself a used bobcat and get to practicing on stacking empty bee pallets


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## TooFarGone

I have a T-300 Bobcat with tracks and pallet forks. It weighs 9000 lbs and I have unloaded pallets weighing 4500 lbs. I have yet to get it stuck, (because I don't have anything bigger to pull it out with). Is this too much machine to be practical for unloading hives? I have no idea the ground conditions that you guys encounter during your operations. Heavy to pull around, but pulls easily with my 20 ft goosneck and the F450 with 11 ft flatbed. Main advantage is that it is paid for!


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## EastSideBuzz

dback said:


> edit: visibility is much better on the hummer/swinger but never been a problem for us with the bobcat....all in what you're accustomed to.


Also you dont get beat to crap running the bobcat. Also the bee's get a smoother ride on a Swinger and Hummerbee. Swinger 1k is the Cadillac of of them.


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## jim lyon

TooFarGone said:


> I have a T-300 Bobcat with tracks and pallet forks. It weighs 9000 lbs and I have unloaded pallets weighing 4500 lbs. I have yet to get it stuck, (because I don't have anything bigger to pull it out with). Is this too much machine to be practical for unloading hives? I have no idea the ground conditions that you guys encounter during your operations. Heavy to pull around, but pulls easily with my 20 ft goosneck and the F450 with 11 ft flatbed. Main advantage is that it is paid for!


Well the short answer is yes it is overkill for what a beekeeper needs. I sure wouldn't want to pull a machine that size around. However, as you say, it's paid for and if your machine serves other functions for you and if you aren't using it that many hours a year for bee work then why not.


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## Keith Jarrett

EastSideBuzz said:


> Swinger 1k is the Cadillac of of them.


 Very well said, and cheaper $$$ too.


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## benstung

i can work pretty fast on these babies and i never get stuck or tip over


http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b598/cbehlke/04042012574_zpsc94bcb86.jpg
http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b598/cbehlke/04042012573_zpsbe8c6cf1.jpg 
http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b598/cbehlke/04052012576_zps46e5788b.jpg


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## Rader Sidetrack

Trevor Mansell said:


> I dont know if Hummerbee is going to be around in a year or two, with these new tier 4 diesels coming out.


Hummerbee is using Kubota diesels. Most models use the 1505 series engines. Kubota as an OEM is fully capable of offering the engine along with the regen equipment as an engineered package. You can see from this Kubota engine spec sheet that this 1505 engine series will be offered in Tier 4:
http://www.kubotaengine.com/products/05/v1505_e3_2.html


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## dback

benstung said:


> i can work pretty fast on these babies and i never get stuck or tip over


Man after my own heart. Plan to build another this winter giving us six. With all the "parts machines" I have sitting around, I'll have about 6-7K in it and will look brand new. It won't out run the 'swinger' in the quarter mile but will do everything else just as fast.... There are drawbacks however, some parts are becoming hard to find and expensive and....there are very few people that know how to work on them so you must learn to do the work yourself for the most part.


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## benstung

heck yea i love the 600's and 610's. we have four, two of which are recently totally redone and look brand new. classy looking machine eh

they are so precise i can flip light switches with the forks


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## dbest

We have 7 610's 3 with factory masts 2 with edwards conversions and 2 with the original loader arms, and 1 611 with a factory mast. Plus one 1600 superbee swinger. I like the swinger, but for the money the 610's do a great job. (I can still kick the the swingers rear with the the 610).


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## JoshJames

Looks like the new Hummerbee XRT is quite a bit nicer than the Swinger 1k. Noticeably the superior joystick over the 1k. It seems A&O has also fixed the problematic articulating joint too. It's also a non-turbo kubota tier 4i. I'll be very interested to test drive this new machine.


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## Keith Jarrett

JoshJames said:


> Looks like the new Hummerbee XRT is quite a bit nicer than the Swinger 1k. .


Josh, I've seen pics of the orange xrt, but did see anything that stuck out about it being nicer, what part of the xrt did you think was nicer?


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## Trevor Mansell

What is the XRT? do you mean the XT? BTW Swinger has gone away from the joystick and the articulation joint on the Hummer looks the same as it did 30 years ago when NMC wollard first made it. But I do have to admit I like the orange ,it looks like my wife's Jeep.


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## JoshJames

Keith, fromthe pics I saw it appeard that it was easy on/off from the driver right side which is not on the 1k I tested. Also, the joystick looks like a real joystick that is much easier to hold onto and it operates lift/tilt/sideshift whereas the 1k only has a choice of two functions and I personally didnt like the joystick on the 1k I tested. It aslo appears that you sit closer to the forks and thus visibility is better(on our hummerbee turbo we sit closer to the forks it seemed than when we tried the 1k; so the xrt sits even closer is what I was told. It is also heavier and has more horsepower than the turbo. Though I dont know if it has reduction axles. And it looks like the new joint will add a lot of stability from rocking but possibly at a loss of traction on uneven terrain. These are fairly minor but if you live on your forklift like we tend to do sometimes I really do save time being able to get on and off each side quickly and the ability of an efficient joystick(which I havent tried yet) if it works well will save us a fairly significant amount of time...ok this is taking too long to type on my phone


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## Keith Jarrett

JoshJames said:


> Keith, fromthe pics I saw it appeard that it was easy on/off from the driver right side which is not on the 1k I tested.


Josh, I load with a 1K and it's the easyest thing to get in/out of, you would have to be stuck in a wheel chair to have a problem get on to the 1k. 
The rest will have to wait an see..... but, I don't think it will hold up to the 1k as far as veiwed from the pics.


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## jim lyon

Keith Jarrett said:


> Josh, I load with a 1K and it's the easyest thing to get in/out of, you would have to be stuck in a wheel chair to have a problem get on to the 1k.
> The rest will have to wait an see..... but, I don't think it will hold up to the 1k as far as veiwed from the pics.


Pictures?


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## Ian

I never get tired of viewing pictures of beekeepers moving bees, or working hives, or extracting honey. Everyone seems to have different set ups and its all different
nice pic benstung


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## JoshJames

Keith Jarrett said:


> Josh, I load with a 1K and it's the easyest thing to get in/out of, you would have to be stuck in a wheel chair to have a problem get on to the 1k.
> 
> Keith, I'm specifically talking about the drivers right side of the 1k. This is NOT easy to get on and off from that side. This is why swinger did not even add a step for this side of the machine because they don't see it as an entry. I am skinny and it was difficult for me to jump onto that side of the machine. I can be on/off the hummer quicker than the 1k I tried out. When we were planning on buying the 1k we were planning on putting a pedal on that side to alleviate that problem(but it would still be more difficult)
> 
> The XRT's new joystick will run ALL(including hive clamp) mast controls simultaneously which is a great improvement in speed.
> 
> The following is a quote from an email from Brian at A&O:
> 
> "The articulation joint is in only one direction. The twist and the up
> and down movements are performed by the trunion rear axle. It makes
> for a much smoother ride, and the operator naturally moves with the
> machine over the terrain with this setup. There is no bearing in this
> design, and it is greaseless. There is a polyurethane bushing in the
> joint.
> 
> The axles have planetary gears in them allowing for a smaller transfer
> case with only two gears in it instead of the four that are in the older
> design.
> The transfer case is also integrated in the rear axle housing.
> 
> The 2 speed can now be shifted on the fly without the need to have to stop."
> 
> As to longevity, only time will tell. But everything has worked very well on my turbo minus the joint problems. It's a well built machine that we have pushed VERY hard and it has held up so far. The controls are also more ergonomically placed than on the 1k we tested. So when all these minor things add up I think the XRT will best the 1k. Time will tell but I think we will wait for the XRT to try out before we grab a 1k like we were planning. I'm just glad the bee keeping community is getting to see some competitive improvement in the area of forklifts.


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## Keith Jarrett

JoshJames said:


> Keith Jarrett said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can be on/off the hummer quicker than the 1k I tried out. .
> 
> 
> 
> Josh, I sell nutra Bee pollen sub at my shop here in Calif, we load other keepers trucks with sub using the swinger 1K machine, out of dozens of keepers that have jumped on the 1k at my shop your the only one with those veiws.
> 
> P.S. The one quote I here most is, I should-of bought the 1k.
Click to expand...


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## JoshJames

Keith Jarrett said:


> JoshJames said:
> 
> 
> 
> Josh, I sell nutra Bee pollen sub at my shop here in Calif, we load other keepers trucks with sub using the swinger 1K machine, out of dozens of keepers that have jumped on the 1k at my shop your the only one with those veiws.
> 
> P.S. The one quote I here most is, I should-of bought the 1k.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keith, I think your tripping over my usage of the word easy. There are many bee keepers that think it is easy to get into their bobcats. It is if your comparing that to getting into a crane. I was simply pointing out that it is more difficult to get on and off on the drivers right side of the 1k than the turbo. Swinger did not design it for you access it from that side(although you can). So some people may not care(we were actually planning on purchasing the 1k despite these inefficiencies)if it's a little harder and some may never use that side but we do and we do it a lot to make it a difference for us.
> 
> 
> "P.S. The one quote I here most is, I should-of bought the 1k."
> 
> And remember, those bee keepers were comparing the 1k to the turbo, not the XRT. Comparing the 1600 to the 1k is like trying to compare the turbo to the XRT(at least from what I've seen, but I admit that I haven't test driven the XRT yet.)
Click to expand...


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## Keith Jarrett

mmmmm


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## jim lyon

I'd pay good money to see some kind of forklift showdown, Keith on the Swinger 1K, Benstung on a Bobcat and Josh on one of the new XRT's. I just keep picturing something like this in my mind. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmdAsL1n6q4


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## HarryVanderpool

jim lyon said:


> I'd pay good money to see some kind of forklift showdown, Keith on the Swinger 1K, Benstung on a Bobcat and Josh on one of the new XRT's.


HEY! Don't leave me out!
You want a forklift showdown; you've got it!
We will have a semi positioned in the loading area and hives scattered in almonds up to 1/4 mile away; sound good?
Oh I'm just waiting for the phone to ring....


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## dback

HarryVanderpool said:


> hives scattered in almonds up to 1/4 mile away; sound good?


Bobcat will lose in that 'management failure' scenario  (of course you already knew that Mr Vanderpoo).........semi positioned....bees stockpiled and I'm in. Loser buys breakfast. We can use my yards & bees for the olympics this spring :banana:

Freudian slip intended


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## jim lyon

Yeah Harry is trying to rig the competition no doubt. That thing he drives should be in Talladega not a bee yard. I'm thinking restricter plate to even the field a bit.


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## Barry

jim lyon said:


> I just keep picturing something like this in my mind. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmdAsL1n6q4


Jim, you have the wrong picture in mind. This one is the "patty" showdown where Keith puts one of his patties on the ground and dares anyone to try and take it from him.


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## UVBee

I'm late to this game apparently. What is the XRT? I cannot find any information on it... does it exactly exist or is it a beekeepers fantasy forklift?


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## jim lyon

According to Hummerbee it's going to be coming soon with base price around 37 grand. Sounds like its gonna be "badass". I can't sleep thinking about it.


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## swarm_trapper

can any one say what the swinger costs i still haven't heard; all i hear is that it is cheaper, but i would like to know a price.


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## jim lyon

A 1K with 10' mast, load dampener, lift gauge, and a couple extra lights is selling for uhhhhhhh I will guess just under 33 grand fob Eau Claire, Wisconsin. Not that I would really know or anything.


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## Keith Jarrett

jim lyon said:


> a couple extra lights is selling for uhhhhhhh I will guess just under 33 grand fob Eau Claire, Wisconsin. Not that I would really know or anything.


Alright... Out with it Jimmy....lol you seem to know alot all of a sudden.


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## EastSideBuzz

UVBee said:


> I'm late to this game apparently. What is the XRT? I cannot find any information on it... does it exactly exist or is it a beekeepers fantasy forklift?


I am guessing they will tell us more about it at the CA bee convention next month. If they dont then I agree a fantasy lift.


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## Chip Euliss

Chevy, ford, mine's bigger kind of argument. All boils down to what you need. I bought an XL Hummerbee a year ago and it does everything I need. I lift 2500 lb pallets of sugar and it runs like a top. Don't know the price now but I paid less than 30k


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## Keith Jarrett

I look at value, in my other life, I own & run Jarrett Equipment rents, I have everything from cummings to Catipillars.....Case to Kamatsu. VALUE... I work with a guy that bought one of the 1K swinger, its about 7-8 years old now, he runs 15-20 thousand hives with it. The only thing he has changed is he bought the converion two pedal to one pedal, he told me and I qoute " that thing is bullet proof " , he also has hummers but has order more of the 1K's machines. One machine is out in front and the other, well we will just have to wait for swinger to design something new for them to copy.


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## G B

dback, you sound like a shifty ole beek that I know from the west valley. I dont think anybody else on this web site knows Im an active hunter...




dback said:


> Bobcat will lose in that 'management failure' scenario  (of course you already knew that Mr Vanderpoo).........semi positioned....bees stockpiled and I'm in. Loser buys breakfast. We can use my yards & bees for the olympics this spring :banana:
> 
> Freudian slip intended


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## Chip Euliss

Keith, I didn't say the 1k wasn't a good machine. I'm sure you would find owners of each of the 3 machines mostly being discussed here that would consider them bullet proof, myself included. All are commercial grade machines and each has features that lend them better fit for specific applications. I looked hard at the 1k but opted not to buy one because they were a little too wide to get into the building lanes where I store my supers and also because getting attachments like a snow blower and bush hog was far simpler, less time consuming and much cheaper on the Hummer. The Swinger will take standard bobcat type attachments but it requires that the mast be removed (45 minutes according to the manufacturer) AND it requires an attachment from Swinger that will cost you an additional 4-5 k. In contrast, the snow blower and mower I bought for the Hummer fits right on the forks and doesn't require a 4-5 k part to attach it! You run the forks in the attachment, snap a chain to hold it on when you back up and connect 2 quick couplers for the hydraulics and you're done--a 2 minute job. Let's see; I saved 4-5 k and 45 minutes every time I use an attachment. It wasn't a difficult decision for me Keith and, like I said, the machine a person buys should fit their needs--the emblem on the hood won't let you do something it wasn't designed to do. I'm happy you like you're 1k but the Hummer was a far better fit for MY needs. I also really like the folks at A&O; they always had the parts I needed to keep my old Swinger running and I'm sure they will be there to help when the Hummer gets old and tired. Chip


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## Keith Jarrett

I here yeah Chip, I don't live in snow country and only use my 1k for bees so I don't see much other than that, you do bring up good points to consider though as one looks for a machine to fit there own needs. As for me I only use the 1k for loading bees sub ect... something that I can put forks into. 

P.S. with the 1k no joints to burn off an replace & no final drives going out.


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## jim lyon

You gotta help me out on this one Chip. If the mower and snow blower fit directly onto the forks then why wouldn't it also fit on the forks of a Swinger as well? What exactly is this 4 to 5 thousand dollar part?


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## Chip Euliss

Jim, I'd bet the Swinger could be plumbed to accept A&O's attachments like the snow blower or the mower. They just use a 1/2 inch quick coupler and they steal the hydraulic line off the side-shift on the mast. The expensive part for the Swinger was called a quick attach universal mount if memory serves me. I really liked the idea of being able to use any front end loader attachment but taking the thing on and off would be a time killer for me even if expense wasn't a factor. I can throw the mower deck on the truck along with a yard of bees, mow it down, take it off and place the hives in about 10 minutes and in only 1 trip. I'm a pretty small operation and do everything myself so the time saved is a big plus.


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## Chip Euliss

Keith. If I lived where you do and only needed a forklift, I might have bought another Swinger too!


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## JoshJames

EastSideBuzz said:


> I am guessing they will tell us more about it at the CA bee convention next month. If they dont then I agree a fantasy lift.



It exists, we just test drove it this morning.


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## jim lyon

Yeah I follow you now but as you say there is probably no reason that the Hummerbee attachments couldnt be plumbed to work. I do know that the loader conversion is about 7 grand for the Swinger and they claim about 20 minutes to a half hour switchover time. That gives you your universal mount for any Bobcat accessory but in the real world is probably a real PITA. I get frustrated having to take the time to put a barrel attachment on the forklift in the honey house and that takes all of about 2 minutes.


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## Trevor Mansell

I dont know I think if I wanted a machine that took Bobcat attachments I would just buy a Bobcat .

Why would anybody buy a machine that is just a knock-off of the 1K . I don't understand , these guys at Swinger make machines for the military , they make equipment for the Coast Guard . Heck these guys have been making loaders for around 40 years , the Hummerbee is a copy of there old 1600. Why would you spend your hard earned money on a second rate machine when you can have the original for allot less. Also think about this, do you think A and O actually gets there machines tested for ANSI certifications ? Somehow I just cant see them spending that kind of money, maybe Im wrong but I doubt it.


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## EastSideBuzz

Chip Euliss said:


> Keith. If I lived where you do and only needed a forklift, I might have bought another Swinger too!


You can put a plate on a swinger and run Bobcat implements also if you want to go that route. If I were to compare the Swinger and the Humberbee for running implements I would go swinger. The motor is much more powerful and the joints are designed to last. I would be afraid to use the hummerbee to do some of those rough tasks. You also can get a front end loader for the swinger so I know it is built tough.

They build machines that run in the desert of the middle east so those things are military grade also.


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## Keith Jarrett

Trevor Mansell said:


> .
> 
> Why would anybody buy a machine that is just a knock-off of the 1K .. Why would you spend your hard earned money on a second rate machine when you can have the original for allot less.


Trevor, Trevor... ease up, your starting to make too much sence here. lol


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## benstung

or you could take your 30 grand and buy 2 used bobcats and a load of syrup.

then with all the time you will save loading semi's you can spend more time on beesource


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## HarryVanderpool

I think the idea of hooking up snow blowers or mowers on a forklift is goofy.
Here's what it sounds like you might need:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/Shallotman/DSC00435.jpg

And yes, it is also EXCELLANT for moving bees.
3 pallets on the back and 2 on the front.
Skidsteer attachments on the loader.
And guess what? $20,000.00 including forks and bucket, NOT $33,000!!!!
40 HP turbo 8x8 FWD
Ever heard of a power shaft? Oh yeah, it also runs our bailer, sprayer rake, rototiller, posthole digger etc....
Maybe Hummerbee needs to offer a 3pt hitch on the back so you can do this with your forklift:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/Shallotman/DSC00431.jpg

Or this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/Shallotman/DSC00823.jpg


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## odfrank

You can argue this forever.

A sledge hammer won't do the work of a brad hammer or rubber mallet. Those six way screw drivers have two Phillips heads, two slotted heads, and two sockets, but won't work on screws or nuts much larger and smaller than what it comes with. Forty years ago when I started my business I bought a carpenters hammer, but it was too small to hammer in headerboard stakes, so I bought a mallet. But it was too small to hammer a stake into hard ground, so I bought a sledge hammer. I got a few concrete removal jobs so I bought a bigger sledge hammer. I wanted to split firewood so I bought a maul. I got some masonry work so I bought a brick hammer. I wanted to drum bees out of boxes so I bought a rubber mallet. I needed to flatten a bunch of nuts so I bought a ball peen hammer. I had a few hundred frames to wire so I bought a brad hammer from Kelly. 

I started with a 3/4 ton pickup but added a 1 ton dump truck, then a 28000 gvw dump truck, later a 15000 gvw toolbox dump truck, then a 20000 gvw drop box truck. Now I drive Subaru Baja. It is perfect for most of my beekeeping efforts but I harvest the crops with a bigger truck. 

I have two skid steer Bobcats, a Massey skip loader and several trenchers, none of them do the work of my mini excavator, and it isn't real good at loading trucks. 

No one tool or piece of equipment will serve all uses.


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## Chip Euliss

Harry. The cute little red tractor looks like it serves your needs well. I have a John Deere 2640 and an 8 foot snow blower that I've used for years. Ever blow snow in an open cab, going in reverse when it's -30 and the wind is blowing 40 mph? IMO, that's goofy but to each his own. I'm happy blowing snow from the comfort of a cab and the mower is a lot easier to haul to my Beeyards than the 2640 and it's quicker. I'm happy with my set up and I'm happy you like yours!!


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## Keith Jarrett

I'm I the only guy that bought a machine(1k) with loading... ahhhh bees in mine???? I could give a hoot about if it chop hay, blows snow, wins the indy( sorry Harry had to get that one in there  ). Gees lou wees. Buy a tool for the job. There is no one size fits all.

The size that fits loading BEES is 1k swinger


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## HarryVanderpool

Chip Euliss said:


> Ever blow snow in an open cab, going in reverse when it's -30 and the wind is blowing 40 mph? IMO, that's goofy but to each his own.


No, but I did ride out the blizzard of '66 in Crookston, so I understand your winters.
The worst I have seen here is 17" but many years we don't have any snow at all.
Certainly machine requirements are just like beekeeping; regional!
Anyway, I was mainly just yanking everyones chain. They are all fine machines.
You take 1st place for the best summation:
"I'm happy with my set up and I'm happy you like yours!! "


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## Chip Euliss

Harry. You are a gentleman and a scholar; I tip my hat to you! My daughter is a professor at the Crookston campus of the University of Minnesota so she knows the winters there too. The first year she was there, the snow drifted into the outside doors of her house and she had to call a neighbor to dig her out! We moved here in 1990 from CA so she's seen all kinds of weather, including the foggy winters of CA. Be Good, Chip


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## jim lyon

Great, just when it was getting interesting everyone starts agreeing on everything. Suppose this means I have to stop picking on Keith and giving Harry the business about that race car he drives.


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## Keith Jarrett

jim lyon said:


> just when it was getting interesting everyone starts agreeing on everything. Suppose this means I have to stop picking on Keith and giving Harry the business about that race car he drives.


Yep...  lol


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## Chip Euliss

Jim. You could work on me for not having sense enough to keep my bee habit reasonable; I think we could all agree that someone with 800 hives and a full time job is a little 'goofy' from the get go!


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## HarryVanderpool

Sorry to dissappoint, but don't give up yet.
My buddy, Nick VanCalcar (7000 hives) has five towables kinda / sorta like mine, and we have a drag race scheduled when we meet in cherries this spring. All of his are 350 Chevys. Mine is a 351 Ford W-HO 4V.
If I can get my daughter out there with a camera we will post a Utube.
Then we can argue Ford v.s. Chevy and forklifts at the same time. Stay tuned!!


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## EastSideBuzz

Part of getting a swinger etc is having the tool. No everything makes $ sense.

I got a kubota 15 years ago and just hit 400 hours on it. So if you do the math of a 30k tractor, 2 clutch jobs, 1 front dif rebuild and my tractor is like a boat (hole in the water you throw money into). It is a fun thing to have and useful also.



Chip Euliss said:


> Jim. You could work on me for not having sense enough to keep my bee habit reasonable; I think we could all agree that someone with 800 hives and a full time job is a little 'goofy' from the get go!


I have 150 and growing and a full time job and having a real tough time with it. Please share how you do it. PM if you like.  But, I need the full time job to fund this thing. I think 30k each of the last 2 years into this could not do that with the profits from the girls.


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## EastSideBuzz

odfrank said:


> You can argue this forever...................No one tool or piece of equipment will serve all uses.


Just remember what a wise man once said "He who dies with the most toys wins. "

Like your list. Need to get a dump truck also need some gravel and dirt for the yard.  Like your toys.


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## Chip Euliss

Buzz. I'm 61 and the goal was to do something I enjoyed that was more physically demanding than my day job; I'm a biologist but mostly work behind a computer screen all day. Since I had a day job, I put all the profits back into the bees. I started 12 years ago and owe no money on anything I have for beekeeping. My second goal was to stop recycling all profits into the bees when I had enough colonies to ship to CA for almonds. I try to send 680 (1 double hive per stack with the rest singles) for the 34 4-way stacks that will fit on a semi trailer. I reached that point about 6 years ago and have been paying myself ever since. I split here in ND in mid-May so I have to split them heavy to have strong hives by late June when the main nectar flow begins. My main issue was time management to have time to do the bees justice. I harvest my honey but pay a friend who is a large commercial to process the honey. I get my hives back the first of May and split them over 2 weeks; this time of year, I haul them here, cull the weak, medicate and pump syrup in them 1-3 times (more for singles). By the time November rolls around, they're ready to ship and the cycle starts over. I send them to a great beekeeper in CA who takes good care of them through almonds (we share the profits). Due to the volume, it cuts into my hunting and fishing but I do fish 2 weeks on summer vacation and hunt most of the things I want in late fall. Our LONG winters give me time to do maintenance and odd chores to make the next year run smoother. I have a Ford bee truck so I'm rooting for Harry in the upcoming drag race!!!

Bottom line is, no secrets---just not enough sense to have a more leisurely lifestyle!! Actually, I enjoy the bees and the hard work. 

Chip


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## jim lyon

Chip, we aren't exactly in the right thread for this discussion but you just layed out a nice blueprint for how to get to the point of profitability in this business when you are starting from scratch. It requires a day job and the willingness to do a lot of work to reach the point of sustainability where you are right now. Job well done, others need to learn from you. Obviously you enjoy hard work, I can't say the same. I do it because it was the culture I was raised in and I live by the creed that anything worth doing is worth doing well. Let's see now weren't we talking about forklifts or something?


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## Chip Euliss

Thanks Jim, and yes this does belong in another discussion. To help get us on track, I'm about to head out, with my Hummerbee to lift some totes and do a little feeding. Chip


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## Trevor Mansell

Chip Euliss said:


> Thanks Jim, and yes this does belong in another discussion. To help get us on track, I'm about to head out, with my Hummerbee to lift some totes and do a little feeding. Chip


Make sure those totes are half full you wouldnt want to break something.


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## Chip Euliss

Trevor. Not only were the totes full, I didn't have to turn a valve or race my engine to get the job done. You could have been sitting on the tote too so you could see first hand how it's done!!!!!


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## jim lyon

I have loaded many a tote with the ole Hummerbee as well. They can definitely handle them but don't try it on any type of a downslope. It might be a little bit more of an adventure , though, without the fluid filled tires.


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## Chip Euliss

Never tried going down a slope but did get the tires foam filled which adds a lot of weight.


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## jim lyon

Do the foam filled tires change the ride and handling characteristics much? I never considered the fact that they would be heavy enough to help stabilize a load, guess I just assumed it was all about never having to worry about flat tires.


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## Chip Euliss

There are different densities of foam and I don't recall what I put in mine but I followed the advice of Dean at A&O. I just asked for a soft foam here in town at the local Firestone and the ride didn't change noticeably, even last winter when I blew snow at below zero. If you opt to fill them, Dean could tell you which foam density to avoid. The stuff is very heavy.


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## EastSideBuzz

So we glazed over the guy that played with the new Hummerbee. What are the benefits of it? Tell us some more then I just drove it.


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## JoshJames

EastSideBuzz said:


> So we glazed over the guy that played with the new Hummerbee. What are the benefits of it? Tell us some more then I just drove it.


Sorry it took so long to reply but I got busy. So, putting some fire back into this debate. Keith is ALL wrong and I'm ALL right!!! JK Keith  

My dad was actually the lucky one that happened to be up in Michigan and so he was the one that got to try the thing out. I haven't seen it in person yet, however I have a buddy that bought one and he'll have it sometime this winter here in Fl. so I'll have plenty of time to try this thing out in the real world. 

He said it was smoother than the turbo but wasn't really sure that it had a noticeable increase in power over the turbo. He tried to spin the wheels on some good sod but it would only stall the motor however it would spin all wheels on gravel. Our turbo will not spin the wheels except on softer terrain. 

You do sit 15 inches forward from the turbo so you are a lot closer to the forks and visibility is increased. This comes from the new joint design with the trunnion axle. You also sit 3 inches higher which I personally don't like. It IS rated at 3000 pounds. 

The steering wheel column must be tilted up at both positions if you want to get on/off the driver right side. The joystick works all mast controls simultaneously although when used together it does slow down the function. The joystick operates up/down and tilt while two sets of buttons control sideshift and clamp. The buttons were not hooked up when he tried it out.

The engine cavity is much more open in person than it is in the picture according to my dad. 

It is definitely quieter than the turbo. You don't have that trademark whine since there's no turbo and not the extra gears in the gearbox.

They've added a lot more cooling capacity.

And it also has a hover button which allows you to hover when the terrain is too rough...JK

So it seems to be a better machine than the turbo and 1k. Time will tell


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## jim lyon

Hover? Are you referring to the load cushion? Or is it something more like the Jetsons,


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## Rader Sidetrack

> Are you referring to the load cushion?

I have operated forklifts at various times (never in connection with bees, though), but had never heard of a _load cushion_. So for those who don't know what a _load cushion_ is, this link is useful:

http://www.cascorp.com/downloads/links/6025811%20A4%20UK/$FILE/Load%20Cush%20UK.pdf


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## JoshJames

jim lyon said:


> Hover? Are you referring to the load cushion? Or is it something more like the Jetsons,


Definitely the Jetsons


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## Kingfisher Apiaries

Sorry if I'm off topic, but there was talk a while back about cutting out the barrier bars in a bobcat....bad idea. I tipped a bob the other day, that barrier bar kept my head in one piece. If it wasnt there I would have smacked the bucket 
Having used both a bobcat and a hummerbee I wouldn't go with a bobcat unless you are a very good operator, the bobcat is way too bouncy. I have been using a tracked one, maybe the wheeled ones are better??? Hummerbee is just a better all around machine for moving bees IMHO.
Mike


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## JBJ

odfrank said:


> You can argue this forever...
> 
> No one tool or piece of equipment will serve all uses.


Quite true, but this one but this one come close with over 100 attachments: http://www.avanttecnousa.com/avant700-overview.asp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vl7fAslYOrs

The 750 with their straight mast can pick up 750 kg (1650 lbs) which is suitable for most beekeeping applications and they have a collapsible boom that mounts on the back for pulling honey supers and such.

Apparently some of their machines can lift over 3000 lbs and there is a closed cab with AC option.


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## jim lyon

The swinger has an air conditioned cab option but be prepared to part with around 40 grand


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## EastSideBuzz

JBJ said:


> The 750 with their straight mast can pick up 750 kg (1650 lbs) which is suitable for most beekeeping applications and they have a collapsible boom that mounts on the back for pulling honey supers and such.
> 
> Apparently some of their machines can lift over 3000 lbs and there is a closed cab with AC option.


Can you buy that mast thing for the back of a 3point.


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## Rader Sidetrack

EastSideBuzz said:


> Can you buy that mast thing for the back of a 3point.


How about this one, and the dealer is not too far from you, in Union Gap, WA

http://www.edwards-equip.com/SiteDocuments/tt36-416.101ab.pdf


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## dback

Yep.....I've got two of them, never used if anyone's interested.


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## Trevor Mansell

So I hear the XRT was at the Ca. convention. The people I talked to about the machine said "they were not to impressed by it" "1K knock off without the quality" They also had to do some repair in the parking lot. I was just wondering if anyone was out there and what there opinion was?


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## Beetrucker74

@ Kingfisher Track to wheeled is a huge difference. We have both and you only want a track unit if you are getting into sand or mud other than that it is a ruff ride and the bees hate it.


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## sjvbee

Had a couple of friends test drive the
XRT and were very impressed with the 
machine.


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## Kingfisher Apiaries

Beetrucker74 said:


> @ Kingfisher Track to wheeled is a huge difference. We have both and you only want a track unit if you are getting into sand or mud other than that it is a ruff ride and the bees hate it.


I do dirt work/landscaping. I don't move bees with a lift. 
Mike


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## EastSideBuzz

sjvbee said:


> Had a couple of friends test drive the
> XRT and were very impressed with the
> machine.


I see the xrt on the website anyone know how it stacks against the Swinger now. It looks good I like the color and the controls.


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## Keith Jarrett

JoshJames said:


> Sorry it took so long to reply but I got busy. So, putting some fire back into this debate. Keith is ALL wrong and I'm ALL right!!! JK Keith
> So it seems to be a better machine than the turbo and 1k. Time will tell


Hey Josh, I think Denny's is having a special on crow stew. lol


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## EastSideBuzz

Rader Sidetrack said:


> How about this one, and the dealer is not too far from you, in Union Gap, WA



I have since rethought the turning the head and backing into pick up the hives and when a lid or hive falls off not noticing it until it is too late because you are paying attention to the road ahead. Or hitting a bump that translates into the back end catapulting upward. Not sure the back dealeo is a good one. If I am going to spend a couple grand to have a half solution then I should just pony up and get a 1k. I think it will be happening this spring.


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## lake thompson honey

Get yourself a Gehl loader. More versatile. Easier to operate. I have used swingers and bobcats and Gehl are the best. U can put on a mast or crazy wheel. 2 hand controls. No foot levers. U can stack dimes with it the controls are so good. Give them a look.


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## Mtn. Bee

lake thompson honey: Hey I have a new quick attach adapter plate that fits a Gehl and converts it to fit Bobcat attachments that I was going to try to fit on my Toyota loader but I don't know if I am going to do it b/c I was thinking about putting a mast on instead.
PM if you would be interested?

I sure like my Toyota loader but have thought about a Swinger or Hummer but can't justify the cost in my small operation!
see pic below:

http://i1305.photobucket.com/albums/s545/mike_hicks3/picture0018_zpsefcce116.jpg


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