# Experiences with Saskatraz Queens



## Waymaker Farms (Apr 22, 2021)

I got three Saskatraz queens this spring. I had a poor acceptance rate (my fault) and only one is still alive and kicking. To add insult to injury, the one that is left has been slow to build up and her hive produced no honey at all even when other splits made at the same time have produced nicely. Of all the hives in my apiary, they are probably the weakest. 

I acknowledge that a sample size of one does not fairly represent the whole of Saskatraz queens. But before I try again next year, I would love to hear from others that have experience with Saskatraz queens, comparing to other bees they've tried in the past.

Thank you all in advance for sharing your experiences.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

I think I tried five a couple (few?) years back. They wintered about the same as everyone else. But they were absolutely slower building, or perhaps the right way to phrase it is that they're content with a smaller colony. Kind of like a determinate vs indeterminate tomato plant. Meaning Italians, for instance, will basically just keep going until they bump up against some limit (reproductive capacity of the queen, comb space, etc). Carniolans are a little more conservative and will also grow every large colonies and broodnests, but typically will be a bit more in tune with available resources. I wonder if Saskatraz is just a little further down that spectrum?


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

This thread might be worth reading, Waymaker.
Saskatraz....any feedback? | Beesource Beekeeping Forums


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## bushpilot (May 14, 2017)

I no longer buy bees, hope to never again. That said, a couple of years ago I bought a couple of Saskatraz queens. They were OK, neither better nor worse than my other queens.


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## jmoore3274 (Apr 4, 2018)

I have exclusively kept saskatraz for the last 4 seasons. I was interested in them for their hygienic traits. I have had repeated high winter survival rates in the 80 to 90% range every year. I would like to think that is because of the genetics but it's probably a mixture of my management and the genetics. 

This is purely anecdotal, however, I feel like they decently handle varroa. I do alcohol washes every two weeks to get an idea of the mite loads and it is not uncommon that I get very low mite counts. However, they still need to be treated for mites. Especially in the fall. 

They are not super heavy honey producers but they still put out a decent crop

They can be slow to build but once established they usually perform well

They can be testy. A note on that which makes me laugh sometimes. I can have people over at the house (My hives are approx 200 feet from my home) and a random bee will come and get in my face to let me know she's there. They don't do this to anyone else, only me. I tell my guests "I'm pretty sure they recognize me"

Overall, I like the saskatraz genetics and I enjoy keeping them. However, they might not be the best genetics for beginners.


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## rroller (Dec 3, 2014)

Waymaker Farms said:


> I got three Saskatraz queens this spring. I had a poor acceptance rate (my fault) and only one is still alive and kicking. To add insult to injury, the one that is left has been slow to build up and her hive produced no honey at all even when other splits made at the same time have produced nicely. Of all the hives in my apiary, they are probably the weakest.
> 
> I acknowledge that a sample size of one does not fairly represent the whole of Saskatraz queens. But before I try again next year, I would love to hear from others that have experience with Saskatraz queens, comparing to other bees they've tried in the past.
> 
> Thank you all in advance for sharing your experiences.


Like you said, A low number of Queens without a reliable data set is not really telling. But, even small experiences indicate some satisfaction or disappointments.
I have had six of these Queens. I noticed the same tendencies in all of them that they are slow to get going in the spring, but then they seem to explode with laying and brood. Many frames have been wall to wall with brood. Of those six, I have now had two five year Queens I mark them myself. Honey production is dependent on amount and availability of forage, but mine have done quite well. They are not as docile as Carniolans, but they aren't hornets either.
The one thing negative I can say is that Queens produced from them have been lousy. Having read the research and development of these Queens, it makes it clear that the advantage from them is from the drones they produce. This gets the good genetics into your apiary. 
I am fairly satisfied, but it does take some patience in the spring. About the time you feel like re-queening, they kick it into gear!
I am moving to pure Russian strains for a few years to look at mite resistance. My fear is with the heavy use of miticides, we are developing weaker bees and a super race of mites. This does not bode well.


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## William Bagwell (Sep 4, 2019)

rroller said:


> Having read the research and development of these Queens, it makes it clear that the advantage from them is from the drones they produce. This gets the good genetics into your apiary.


Interesting. Is Saskatraz the only strain where this is true?


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## rroller (Dec 3, 2014)

William Bagwell said:


> Interesting. Is Saskatraz the only strain where this is true?


That I do not know. As hobbyists, our bees become mutts very quickly. I just noticed that every Queen daughter I produced from them sucked.
I am part of a small group who have started an isolated apiary with nothing but pure Russians. We are getting more Queens and nucs from certified Russian breeders from another source this year. We are going treatment free to see how they fare as pure Russian stock against varroa mites. Hopefully our hives will survive the winter and we can produce some Queens for our own yards and our club members. I have two hives there from which I made three splits. Both colonies were very populous and had really good stores heading into winter. All I did was to put a candy board and a moisture control box on top in October. I have not checked them since.
Sasks are supposed to be bred down from Russian stock in order to retain the abilities of Russians, but with more docility. We have more time to play than commercial beeks.


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## mtnmyke (Apr 27, 2017)

Might be worth a read, this seems to be a recurring post:









Saskatraz Bees


Do they stay gentle over time? This was one of the worries about saskatraz a few years ago. I'm not sure if it got fixed.




www.beesource.com


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## Nicksotherhoney (Jun 10, 2017)

Any updates on this line of bee? Is it still a popular line?


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## randallroller64 (Oct 16, 2021)

Waymaker Farms said:


> I got three Saskatraz queens this spring. I had a poor acceptance rate (my fault) and only one is still alive and kicking. To add insult to injury, the one that is left has been slow to build up and her hive produced no honey at all even when other splits made at the same time have produced nicely. Of all the hives in my apiary, they are probably the weakest.
> 
> I acknowledge that a sample size of one does not fairly represent the whole of Saskatraz queens. But before I try again next year, I would love to hear from others that have experience with Saskatraz queens, comparing to other bees they've tried in the past.
> 
> Thank you all in advance for sharing your experiences.





Nicksotherhoney said:


> Any updates on this line of bee? Is it still a popular line?


I have had several and as a general rule, I like them.
There is one thing I have noticed; they are slow to start building in the spring.
I did a small experiment about three years ago. I split a purchased package. I left the Carniolan Queen with 1/2 of the bees in a five frame nuc. I took the other1/2 in a five frame nuc and installed the Saskatraz Queen I had ordered from Olivarez in California in it after four days of acclimation. This was 20 miles away.
The Carny Queen began to lay heavily almost immediately. The Saskatraz layed only spotty for about two weeks. Then within three weeks she had caught and passed the Carniolan.
I know this is a small experiment, but in general all of my Saskatraz Queens were slow to start.
But I only had one colony that did not build enough for extra honey. She overwintered and then was a monster the next year!
I have had two Saskatraz that went five years before I replaced them. I have no complaints except that making good Queens from them was not possible. This is probably due to the genetics of producing them. The researchers who developed these Queens are very open about the benefits, and that is from the drones they produce. If they add those genes to your apiary it improves the honey crop and helps with wintering. 
Long story, but I like them. Some people do not, and that is fine. Commercial people especially cannot wait those extra couple of weeks to build colony strength.


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## COAL REAPER (Jun 24, 2014)

remember that what you are getting from mann lake or OHB is saskatraz hybrids. only in canadia can you get true saskatraz (oliverez excepted). so the colony with hybrids will have traits of whatever they were open mated with in california. not necessarily a bad thing, hybrid vigor they call it. but where they really shine is using the saska hybrids in drone mother colonies to flood your mating yards. i am liking my 'local' 2 or 3 year overwintered queens crossed with these drones. after several years i am now at the point of back-crossing. my per hive honey average has increased from ~60 pounds to slightly over 100. AND i pulling several frames for splits on overwintered colonies. so i bring in a few saska hybrids every year and run them with a high percentage of drone comb in the hives. this elimantes me needing to select hives for drone mother colonies and i can focus my attentions to which queens to graft from. meadow ridge puts extensive effort into selecting breeders for hygene, mite resistance, and honey production. i let them do that work on the paternal side. i will agree that they overwinter with small clusters, consume little stores through winter, and react strongly to incoming resources. expect them to explode 3-4 weeks after first pollen and completely shutdown in summer dearths. manage accordingly and learn to work with them rather than against them.


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## randallroller64 (Oct 16, 2021)

COAL REAPER said:


> remember that what you are getting from mann lake or OHB is saskatraz hybrids. only in canadia can you get true saskatraz (oliverez excepted). so the colony with hybrids will have traits of whatever they were open mated with in california. not necessarily a bad thing, hybrid vigor they call it. but where they really shine is using the saska hybrids in drone mother colonies to flood your mating yards. i am liking my 'local' 2 or 3 year overwintered queens crossed with these drones. after several years i am now at the point of back-crossing. my per hive honey average has increased from ~60 pounds to slightly over 100. AND i pulling several frames for splits on overwintered colonies. so i bring in a few saska hybrids every year and run them with a high percentage of drone comb in the hives. this elimantes me needing to select hives for drone mother colonies and i can focus my attentions to which queens to graft from. meadow ridge puts extensive effort into selecting breeders for hygene, mite resistance, and honey production. i let them do that work on the paternal side. i will agree that they overwinter with small clusters, consume little stores through winter, and react strongly to incoming resources. expect them to explode 3-4 weeks after first pollen and completely shutdown in summer dearths. manage accordingly and learn to work with them rather than against them.


I agree with your statements and particularly the last sentence.
Every bee line has it's own benefits and negatives. I don't criticize anyone for their preferences. Mine are pretty much fixed on black bees.
I have a cooperative effort going with three other beekeepers where we have an isolated apiary and only have pure Russians. We are trying to add new sources every spring. We have bees coming from extreme northern Iowa and south central Iowa. They are being picked up, and we all live in central Indiana. Thus far we have not treated them at all for anything. We don't take honey either. We do make splits and Queens from them to take to our home aviaries.
We are under no illusions. Russians have pretty good mite resistance, but no bee is mite proof. They are a little more aggressive, but still manageable.
We are curious as to their wintering ability and survivability. So far we have had zero losses. They are good honey producers, and they are prolific producers of Queen cells. I cannot say we have not had any swarms because they are a swarm breed, but if they do so naturally and we catch some, then so much the better.
Saskatraz are bred down from Russians. They both carry some of the benefits.
Anyway, I run Carniolans, Saskatraz, and Russians. I have not had Italians for many years, but I do catch swarms. The home yard is pretty much a bunch of mutts with dark bees prevalent.


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## COAL REAPER (Jun 24, 2014)

yes, saskatraz come from russian and buckfast i believe. the saskatraz hybrids, IF they are accepted well and make it to the start of thier first winter, i can expect them the make it through 2-4 winters. they do really well. i dont find them swarmy but they do maintain several cups. and again, i am running lots of drone comb. dark black drones they are too!


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## drummerboy (Dec 11, 2015)

We've had relative good luck with them, so much so that we've ordered some for splits this June. 

They do seem slow to get going in the Spring, but so am I. 

It's a rough, yet highly anticipated transition going from winter to spring, for bees and people.


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## COAL REAPER (Jun 24, 2014)

drummerboy said:


> We've had relative good luck with them, so much so that we've ordered some for splits this June.
> 
> They do seem slow to get going in the Spring, but so am I.
> 
> It's a rough, yet highly anticipated transition going from winter to spring, for bees and people.


TRUTH. i do enjoy talking about these saskatraz tho!


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