# Evaluation of Canadian Bee Mortalities that Coincided with Corn Planting in Spring 12



## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

Evaluation of Canadian Bee Mortalities that Coincided with Corn Planting in Spring 2012

Anyone look at this thing?
http://www.ontariobee.com/sites/ont...luation of Canadian Bee Mortalities.ENG-1.pdf

This seems so intentionally vague that I'm already doubting that the data will back up the assertions:


> Residue analysis was conducted to determine whether bees were exposed to the
> insecticides used on treated corn seeds. Samples of affected bees, from many incident
> locations, were analyzed for pesticide residues by the PMRA Laboratory Services or
> Ministère de l’Agriculture, Pêcheries et Alimentation Québec. Clothianidin was detected in
> ...


No levels cited, no quantification of the number of hives sampled.

I'd like to simply be able to take someone at their word that their conclusions are supported by their data...but I don't think we can.

deknow


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

There is some data there that SEEMS to be concerning. But yes, if you managed your data carefully enough something like that could be extrapolated depending on what is released and what is withheld. Could they be contacted and asked to release all data.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

I dunno...this is now being passed around by beekeepers as some kind of alarming report. It might be...but it seems not just vague, but intentionally vague.
A closer reading shows that they found pesticide residue in bees that were already dead and suspected to have been poisoned by pesticides....and didn't find residues in bees that weren't dead. It doesn't really reveal much, other than to point out that pesticide poisoning can often times be identified by the beekeeper based upon observation.

deknow


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

"Measures have been implemented to reduce honey bee exposure to dust generated
during planting of treated corn seed, including communication of best practices to reduce
the exposure of honey bees, labelling of treated seed, a treated seed dust standard, and
development of technical solutions to reduce dust, including developments in the areas of
seed coating quality, seed flow lubricants, planting equipment, and disposal of treated
seed bags."

i don't think anyone disputes that these insecticides will kill bees if they are released in dust clouds during planting.

hopefully the corrective measures will mitigate these kind of losses this year. looks like they will be watching,

"Additionally, the nitro-guanidine neonicotinoids have been placed under re-evaluation
(REV2012-02, http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/cps-spc/pubs/pest/_decisions/rev2012-02/indexeng.
php) and further regulatory action will be taken if required."

i wonder if the beekeepers were compensated for their losses?


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## gees_bees (Feb 25, 2013)

From the follow-up report - "unusually high number of incident reports of bee losses from across southern Ontario, involving 40 beekeepers and over 200 beeyards, as well as one report from Quebec involving eight beeyards."

Here's the follow-up report released Feb 4 2013 outlining Canada's measures to reduce risk to pollinators from neonicotinoid-treated seeds 

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/cps-spc/pubs...nator-protection-pollinisateurs/index-eng.php


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## honeydrunk (Dec 29, 2012)

gees_bees said:


> From the follow-up report - "unusually high number of incident reports of bee losses from across southern Ontario, involving 40 beekeepers and over 200 beeyards, as well as one report from Quebec involving eight beeyards."
> 
> Here's the follow-up report released Feb 4 2013 outlining Canada's measures to reduce risk to pollinators from neonicotinoid-treated seeds
> 
> http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/cps-spc/pubs...nator-protection-pollinisateurs/index-eng.php


I love how you can read through their entire list of "actions" that basically say they are going to do nothing. Im sure the wee little beekeeper is going to track down the big farmer and ask him nicely not to spray except during the early morning or evening.... sigh. It makes me sick. Also, im quite confident when the bees see that the seed is labelled they are likely to avoid it... 

http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/2013/02/19/burgessville-beekeeper-convinced-pesticides-used-by-farmers-responsible-for-hive-deaths

This just occurred in my area, where I plan to put my bees this spring, not exactly cultivating (pun intended) a ton of confidence.


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## Markt (Feb 8, 2012)

squarepeg said:


> i wonder if the beekeepers were compensated for their losses?


They were not.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

Markt said:


> They were not.


does canadian law provide for compensation for the beekeeper's losses?


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## honeydrunk (Dec 29, 2012)

No, as far as I know there were some bailouts for some of the bigger producers who got hit hard with ccd. As far as any sort of insurance/compensation for the losses, as far as I know they dont exist. Maybe a more experienced Canadian beek could give you some more specific information.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

I cant speak for these beekeepers, I dont know of any law suits against the farmer. I doubt it, that beekeeper would have a hard time finding property to put his bees on,...

, but if your referring to bailouts related to CCD,.? What CCD outbreak are you referring to in Canada?


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## Markt (Feb 8, 2012)

Not for that sort of thing, they've come out with some good bear kill compensation programs but nothing so far as pesticide related. I'm sure that if some people see a repeat in 2013 that the lawyers will be circling though.


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## Markt (Feb 8, 2012)

Ha yeah suing farmers strikes me as about the best way to lose pretty much all of your existing yards and never being able to find new ones that I can think of... Gotta keep in mind that most beeyards are there because the farmer doesn't care either way, they don't really get all that much out of the deal other than some honey. (Canola etc aside perhaps)


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

it will be interesting to see if the mitigation strategy is successful.

i sure hope so for the beekeepers' sake.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Markt said:


> because the farmer doesn't care either way, they don't really get all that much out of the deal other than some honey. (Canola etc aside perhaps)


exactly right. Unless they need pollination, and not much seed production around here, they will have bees on their land more so as a good will gesture towards the beekeeper himself. Very important to be recognized as a sound character and appreciative to the community for the use of the lands. Bad PR moves beekeepers out very quickly.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

squarepeg said:


> it will be interesting to see if the mitigation strategy is successful.
> 
> i sure hope so for the beekeepers' sake.


towards who?


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## rkereid (Dec 20, 2009)

honeydrunk said:


> http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/2013/02/19/burgessville-beekeeper-convinced-pesticides-used-by-farmers-responsible-for-hive-deaths
> 
> This just occurred in my area, where I plan to put my bees this spring, not exactly cultivating (pun intended) a ton of confidence.


Not to hijack the thread, but the picture on this site shows what looks like classic varroa/viral collapse. All the untreated deadouts in our area since last October look like this. Small cluster with some uncapped brood outside the cluster area (indicating the cluster size before the collapse), starved in cold weather because the cluster is not big enough to touch the honey. We are in a rural area with no big ag, only woods, abandoned fields, and pasture land, and mostly natural forage. The only pesticides of concern are from homeowners, and I don't think that equals 100s of acres of corn or soy and the accompanying pesticide use. I think varroa is the problem indicated in this picture, especially last year with the mild winter and early spring on east coast. Translates to more winter loss following such a season.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Ian said:


> towards who?


Ian, I believe you may have misread _squarepeg_'s use of the word "mitigation" as "litigation". The mitigation SP is referring to is mentioned in post #4.

:lookout:


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

yup that is exactly what I did, thanks Rader, 
cleaning my glasses right now lol


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## Bee Whisperer (Mar 24, 2013)

I agree. It would be great to have evidence based facts; excluding extraneous variables in controlled studies, to get to the bottom of this. Then the facts can be used to affect change.


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## honeydrunk (Dec 29, 2012)

rkereid said:


> Not to hijack the thread, but the picture on this site shows what looks like classic varroa/viral collapse. All the untreated deadouts in our area since last October look like this. Small cluster with some uncapped brood outside the cluster area (indicating the cluster size before the collapse), starved in cold weather because the cluster is not big enough to touch the honey. We are in a rural area with no big ag, only woods, abandoned fields, and pasture land, and mostly natural forage. The only pesticides of concern are from homeowners, and I don't think that equals 100s of acres of corn or soy and the accompanying pesticide use. I think varroa is the problem indicated in this picture, especially last year with the mild winter and early spring on east coast. Translates to more winter loss following such a season.


Our area is pretty much all corn and soy, so it is a definite possibility. Also the beek in question is like 3rd generation, his whole life kinda beekeeper so it would seem rather odd for a guy like that to suffer such damaging losses, though im a noob so I dont know either way.


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## honeydrunk (Dec 29, 2012)

Bee Whisperer said:


> I agree. It would be great to have evidence based facts; excluding extraneous variables in controlled studies, to get to the bottom of this. Then the facts can be used to affect change.


 Wasent there a WikiLeaks article posted by said company about how dangerous it was, and how their own scientists were advising against its use?


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## honeydrunk (Dec 29, 2012)

Ian said:


> I cant speak for these beekeepers, I dont know of any law suits against the farmer. I doubt it, that beekeeper would have a hard time finding property to put his bees on,...
> 
> , but if your referring to bailouts related to CCD,.? What CCD outbreak are you referring to in Canada?


 In 2007 many provinces had compensation packages you could apply for, I dont think that is case any longer.


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## rkereid (Dec 20, 2009)

honeydrunk said:


> Our area is pretty much all corn and soy, so it is a definite possibility. Also the beek in question is like 3rd generation, his whole life kinda beekeeper so it would seem rather odd for a guy like that to suffer such damaging losses, though im a noob so I dont know either way.


With varroa mites, even longtime beeks have losses, treat or not. You would have thought treating would have alleviated some losses depending on how it was done and when.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

honeydrunk said:


> In 2007 many provinces had compensation packages you could apply for, I dont think that is case any longer.


that must of been a provincial program


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## Markt (Feb 8, 2012)

rkereid said:


> Not to hijack the thread, but the picture on this site shows what looks like classic varroa/viral collapse. All the untreated deadouts in our area since last October look like this. Small cluster with some uncapped brood outside the cluster area (indicating the cluster size before the collapse), starved in cold weather because the cluster is not big enough to touch the honey. We are in a rural area with no big ag, only woods, abandoned fields, and pasture land, and mostly natural forage. The only pesticides of concern are from homeowners, and I don't think that equals 100s of acres of corn or soy and the accompanying pesticide use. I think varroa is the problem indicated in this picture, especially last year with the mild winter and early spring on east coast. Translates to more winter loss following such a season.


Just seeing that picture, you'd be right absolutely. Unfortunately the photographer missed the important part that mite levels tested reasonable and many were strong doubles the week before. The main symptom seen by these beekeepers was a large number of bees (Really large number) dead and dying within a couple feet of the hive. Samples were taken from each reported site which consisted of 230 separate yards and each one tested positive for high levels of clothiandan. Many bees were observed to have pollen baskets full.


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