# Essentials on swarm trapping



## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Welcome to Beesource!

I suggest lemongrass oil as bait in swarm traps. 3-4 drops directly on the inside wood of the trap is enough. 

Some bedtime reading on swarm trapping: 
http://ecommons.cornell.edu/bitstream/1813/2653/2/Bait Hives for Honey Bees.pdf


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## Berry Farms Berry Bees (Feb 19, 2014)

Ok great! If I know of a swarm that I am targeting, where should I put the trap? And should I use the "Queen Juice" pheromone in addition to the lemon grass oil?


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Hmmm.

Swarms usually don't hang around in one place all that long. 

If you mean that you are hoping to trap a swarm that _might _come from a specific established hive/colony, there are no fixed answers. If you only have one trap I would say that the odds are low that a swarm from a specific hive will move into your trap. But the good news is that a swarm from a colony that you don't even know about might move in. Set out as many traps as you can to improve your odds.


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## Berry Farms Berry Bees (Feb 19, 2014)

Great! Thanks!


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## philip.devos (Aug 10, 2013)

I suggest you get on YOUTUBE and search for honeybee swarm trap + Jason Bruns. Mr. Bruns has some excellent videos on swarm traps.

Phil


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## wags (Feb 17, 2014)

philip.devos said:


> I suggest you get on YOUTUBE and search for honeybee swarm trap + Jason Bruns. Mr. Bruns has some excellent videos on swarm traps.
> 
> Phil


How do you reset the bees when moving a caught swarm to it's final resting place? For instance, i'd like to set traps around my property/neighborhood - about 3 acres of land, then once caught - move them to where I keep all my hives.

I was under the impression that they needed to be 'reset' unless you are moving them over a mile away.

Would a caught swarm need to be relocated for a week (more than a mile away) then brought back?

Thanks,


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

Sarm trapping (if successful) is 90% luck 10% other. lol
100% fun though.
To "reset" the bees to their new location, either screen them in with good ventillation for 3 days or add a leafy branch directly in front of the entrance for a couple of days.


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## Snookie (Dec 13, 2013)

Wait Wait I'm confussed lol

"Resetting bee's that I catch in a swarm trap?

I have SO FAR have Swarm Traps at 1 1/2 mile from my home and one 5+ miles from my home ; am I to assume dat I have to reset or keep them in a screened box of some sort before I put them into my hive or they will go back to where they came from?

I thought they went into my swarm trap to bee happy and multiply?

What does a leafy branch do for helping the transition?

Thanks


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## NY_BLUES (May 14, 2009)

By resetting they mean orienting to the new location . Screening them in for a few days makes them forget where they were at. By putting the leafy branch in front and make them reorient to their new location as the surrounding is different. That's the basics of moving the bees a short distance and having the orient to their new location. Or you can move the whole hive a few miles away for a few days and then put them where you want them.


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## Snookie (Dec 13, 2013)

NY_BLUES said:


> By resetting they mean orienting to the new location . Screening them in for a few days makes them forget where they were at. By putting the leafy branch in front and make them reorient to their new location as the surrounding is different. That's the basics of moving the bees a short distance and having the orient to their new location. Or you can move the whole hive a few miles away for a few days and then put them where you want them.


OK, thanks so what is a short distance? And when would it be necessary to reset


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

Bees range about three miles for forage. Anything over that and you shouldn't have to "reset".


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## Snookie (Dec 13, 2013)

Mr.Beeman said:


> Bees range about three miles for forage. Anything over that and you shouldn't have to "reset".


Groovy

10-69 on dat thanks:}


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## Calbears94 (Jan 24, 2014)

I did not think about resetting the bees either.... If you catch in your yard do you still have to do?if not will the whole hive leave including the queen?


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## NY_BLUES (May 14, 2009)

No, the whole hive will not leave the box, but your foragers are oriented to a certain location, and once you move the hive, they will return to the original spot of the hive and not to the new location. If moving the swarm trap over 2 miles, i wouldnt worry about screening them in for a few days or bother with a tree branch, as they will reorient due to the new surroundings. If moving less than 2 miles, I would put some brush or leafy branch in front of the hive to make them reorient.


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## Snookie (Dec 13, 2013)

NY_BLUES said:


> If moving less than 2 miles, I would put some brush or leafy branch in front of the hive to make them reorient.


Please explain what you mean by IN FRONT of the hive to make them reorient:}

I would think doing dat would really make them want to go back to there original area?

I bee confused...lol

Thanks in advance!


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## NY_BLUES (May 14, 2009)

In front meaning directly in front of the entrance, usually I will make them crawl thru a branch or grass to get I to the entrance. I want them to believe they are in a completely new place.


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

Has anyone tried lemon balm as a substitute for lemon grass oil? I've found one piece buried in the archives that suggest one or two other lemon-scented plants may work, and "Virgil" (the poet?) mentioned a crushed balm.

I ask because lemon grass is an imported species, but my wife grows lemon balm, and bees like it.

I know we can just buy the oil, but the Master Gardener thinks she'd like to try her own herbs if they will work.


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## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

The synthetic Nasonov pheromones (of which lemongrass oil is natural analog) are mixtures of citral, geraniol and nerol. These are closely related fairly short chains, and are abundant in the plant kingdom. Pine trees have non-trivial quantities. Research papers use a 1:1 ratio of citral:geraniol or 1:1:1 of the three oils.

Any of the "lemon" scented natural plants -- Thyme, Lemon Balm, Lemon Verbena, Rose Geranium (Citrosa or Pelargonium) have geraniol. Concentration in lemongrass oil is 12-15%, while Lemon Balm is 3-6%, and Lemon Verbena and the Pelagoniums are about 9%. The natural source of Citronella is a lemongrass genus (and the Citral-Citronella oils are co-extensive in culinary lemongrass ). Lemon zest (the skin of citrus) has substantial amounts of geraniol.

So yes, lemon balm is natural, temperate source of the attractant, at a lower yield than the tropical feedstock.

In my observation, the lemongrass oil gets scouts to investigate the swarm box. My working assumption is any strong recruitment scent (research shows cinnamon oil is especially good) would get scouts to the entrance. The decision for a swarm to settle on the box seems unrelated to the scout discovery following a scent trail. The use of lemongrass oil as a swarm attractant has an element of folklore -- it works, but so would cheap floral perfume, or clove oil, anything a scout bee will use to orient.

http://www.researchgate.net/profile...d_Honeybee_Swarms/file/79e415096fb63f0030.pdf


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## JakeDatc (Apr 19, 2010)

http://www.pureformulas.com/lemongr...6C15C=530005240000387413#sthash.nGGDbX5j.dpbs

does this look like what you need?


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

All you need is one thing....LUCK!


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## JakeDatc (Apr 19, 2010)

not a very useful answer... just trying to find out if this is the correct oil

http://www.pureformulas.com/lemongr...6C15C=530005240000387413#sthash.nGGDbX5j.dpbs


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## D Semple (Jun 18, 2010)

JakeDatc said:


> http://www.pureformulas.com/lemongr...6C15C=530005240000387413#sthash.nGGDbX5j.dpbs
> 
> does this look like what you need?


Yes that is the correct oil. You can find the same oil in the Health Food sections of most grocery stores.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

In my experience the most irresistable combination for the swarm looking for a home is lemongrass essential oil, at least one old black brood comb and some QMP (Queen Mandibular Pheromone). I have a jar of retired queens in alcohol. I put four drops of that, and four drops of lemongrass oil. I have lured swarms out of trees with this combination and it works most of the time.


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## beekuk (Dec 31, 2008)

Maybe best not to use lemon grass oil too freely in the bait box if you are concerned about any microflora that a feral swarm may be bringing along with them, or if it is intended to use any combs that have been used in the bait hive, it has a strong aroma hence why it is used in aromatherapy plus...it has analgesic, anti-bacterial, carminative, deodorizing, febrifuge, fungicidal, antiseptic, antidepressant, astringent, diuretic, galactogogue, insecticidal, antipyretic, antimicrobial and sedative properties.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Maybe best not to use lemon grass oil too freely in the bait box if you are concerned about any microflora that a feral swarm may be bringing along with them

Much more than four drops will run them off anyway...


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## Kenww (Apr 14, 2013)

Is a one inch hole big enough? Biggest but I have.


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## NY_BLUES (May 14, 2009)

Kenww said:


> Is a one inch hole big enough? Biggest but I have.


For an entrance hole? Yes that is large enough


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## beekuk (Dec 31, 2008)

Michael Bush said:


> Much more than four drops will run them off anyway...


Exactly, powerful stuff, hence my thoughts about not using it at all.


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## LetMBee (Jan 4, 2012)

I will tell you right now.... Once you catch that first swarm you will be hooked. 
*Scouting*
http://letmbee.com/2012/02/22/looking-for-spots/
*Loading*
http://letmbee.com/do-it-yourself/how-i-load-swarm-traps/
*Hanging*
http://letmbee.com/do-it-yourself/how-i-hang-a-swarm-trap/

Additional scouting.... Once they start flying this spring observe every single outside trash can you pass anywhere you pass one. I use a bunch of different gas stations just to scout for bees. If feral bees are near there they will be drawn in by sugary waste. 
Good luck. Let is know your progress.


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## LetMBee (Jan 4, 2012)

wags said:


> Would a caught swarm need to be relocated for a week (more than a mile away) then brought back?
> 
> Thanks,


Find an intermediate location. I don't know what the minimum limit on time is, but I have moved them many times to a place 2+ miles away for 2-3 days then moved them back. Mr Bush has stuff on his site about some moving techniques.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>hence my thoughts about not using it at all. 

I guess it depends on whether or not you want to catch swarms. You'll only catch a fraction as many without lemongrass oil. Four drops on the wood is not going to affect the microbes in the colony in general.


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## LetMBee (Jan 4, 2012)

LGO is very attractive to bees. I found that out a couple years ago when I had been putting up traps one morning and went to a winery that afternoon. I spilled LGO on my hands and bees kept on coming to me and landing on my hands. They werent interested in anyone else. When freshening up traps I have noted scouting activity within minutes of reapplication of LGO to the traps. With all of the chemicals in our environment I am not concerned about a couple drops of LGO inside that trap.
If anyone lives near Modoc, Indiana there are bees there.


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## Dunkel (Jun 12, 2009)

How often does everyone freshen up the LGO?


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## beekuk (Dec 31, 2008)

Michael Bush said:


> Four drops on the wood is not going to affect the microbes in the colony in general.


 How do you know? If much more than four drops is enough to drive them off, then it suggests that even three drops is pretty powerful, powerful enough to knock down and kill varroa mites with other similar essential oils, so certainly powerful enough to kill microbes, especially being as it has a very strong microbial action anyway, and the only microbes may be just the ones on the bees, plus would using lemon grass oil not also class as a treatment, for those that were treatment free?


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## Kidbeeyoz (May 8, 2013)

Kenww said:


> Is a one inch hole big enough? Biggest but I have.


The ultimate size according to Seeley "Honeybee Democracy" is 1 1/4".


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## LetMBee (Jan 4, 2012)

beekuk said:


> plus would using lemon grass oil not also class as a treatment, for those that were treatment free?


Beekuk I can't tell are you joking or not. Do you seriously call 4 drops of LGO used as an attractant treatment? I hope not, but anyway if you don't want to use it.... DON'T...... I'm a pharmacist and think I have a pretty good handle on the idea of treatment. 
Good luck to you beekuk.... If you cannot use LGO then look into growing bee balm and somehow encore orating that into your traps....


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## beekuk (Dec 31, 2008)

LetMBee said:


> I'm a pharmacist and think I have a pretty good handle on the idea of treatment.


I'm a beekeeper, and have been using thymol in syrup feed for over 30 years, so know a little about it as well. Would using only four drops of lemon grass oil kill the microflora or not, even if only the weakest, thus causing an unbalance?

I know it causes varroa mites to drop, as does just plain lemon juice.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>If much more than four drops is enough to drive them off, then it suggests that even three drops is pretty powerful, powerful enough to knock down and kill varroa mites with other similar essential oils

Not anywhere NEAR enough to knock off any varroa or kill any microbes other than the exact point of contact with the wood.


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## beekuk (Dec 31, 2008)

Michael Bush said:


> Not anywhere NEAR enough to knock off any varroa or kill any microbes other than the exact point of contact with the wood.


Why would more than four drops, say five, drive the bees off, strong vapor i would think, not only contact.

So we can assume that using only four drops of essential oil is not going to do any harm to a colony regards microflora, yes i agree.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Bees are attracted to the smell of lemongrass at appropriate levels. They are not attacted to lemongrass at high levels. I don't think it's that different from the lady in the elevator with you who has just a touch of a really nice perfume or has splashed a half of a bottom on herself... there is a world of difference in the effect...


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## beekuk (Dec 31, 2008)

Michael Bush said:


> there is a world of difference in the effect...


Be nice to know what the real effect is though, for sure.


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## Kenww (Apr 14, 2013)

I'd like to build a couple more traps. Is new paint smell a problem? I think they'd have a few weeks at least to air out.


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

Fresh paint can actually drive out a colony of bees. A few weeks of drying time should be ok in a well ventillated area.
Good luck!


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## Kenww (Apr 14, 2013)

Thanks!


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## Snookie (Dec 13, 2013)

Mr.Beeman said:


> Fresh paint can actually drive out a colony of bees. A few weeks of drying time should be ok in a well ventillated area.
> Good luck!


10-4 on dat...

Here's a snapshot of the three CAMO swarm traps I just finished a few hours ago:}








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[/url] how do i print screen[/IMG]


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## beekuk (Dec 31, 2008)

They look good, Snookie, so well camouflaged that the bees will never find them.


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## Snookie (Dec 13, 2013)

beekuk said:


> They look good, Snookie, so well camouflaged that the bees will never find them.


SHAZZZZAM, I never thought of dat...:scratch:


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

When you go to move that nuc, full of mean bees, with that triangular entrance, you will wish you had an entrance easier to screen.


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## Snookie (Dec 13, 2013)

odfrank said:


> When you go to move that nuc, full of mean bees, with that triangular entrance, you will wish you had an entrance easier to screen.


10-69 on dat:}

I hope I get that opportunity.....Making a nuc with a Crucifix entrance today that will be set out at my local Catholic Church:}

Will Post pics later.

Happy Mardi Gras


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

Wow... you did such a good job on the camo, I can't even find the third box! lol

They look good.


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## Calbears94 (Jan 24, 2014)

I like the side door idea too... I just built 9 total traps and didn't think of that... Good way to peek inside without removing the top.....


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## Snookie (Dec 13, 2013)

Calbears94 said:


> I like the side door idea too... I just built 9 total traps and didn't think of that... Good way to peek inside without removing the top.....


Thanks

Peak a boo door Easy to install even after completion:}

Working on my last (so far lol) trap/box to put at my local church in hopes of attracting some swarming religious bee's:}

Check it out








[/url] photo hosting[/IMG]


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## Snookie (Dec 13, 2013)

Mr.Beeman said:


> Wow... you did such a good job on the camo, I can't even find the third box! lol
> 
> They look good.


Hummmm You right lol Shazaaaam


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