# Bars ripped from 2x2?



## raosmun (Sep 10, 2009)

I used 1" wide bars X 19" (I can use Lang. frames if I want) and 3/8" shims.
I took 2 X stock any width, rip to 1" turn and rip again. You now have a 1 X 1
and a 3/8 drop for shims. 45, notch ends, done. The advantage I see with shims, is one has bars that are all the same, the 3/8 bee space and to super just remove shims. If you want diffeerent spacing, make 1/4 & 1/2" shims. For material, use up shorts, find a remodel job, better yet new construction, you'll find a dumpster full of good stuff or a pile to be burnt. Just ask the contractor, they don't want the drops anyway.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

It really doesn't matter how thick the bars are, and you can cut a comb guide in one piece if you like. I found it to be too much work. But the width of the bars does matter and 1 1/2" won't work well. 1 3/8" is ok, but 1 1/4" in the brood and 1 1/2" in the honey seems to work the best for the bees. Otherwise they cheat the brood smaller and the honey wider. If you go with 1 1/2" they will cheat the brood so much that they will not land on the guide. As far as the angle, my first ones were 12 degrees. They worked ok, but I found that they followed 45 degrees more reliably.


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

The 2x2s I see available are the most twisted pieces of wood one could imagine. I'd get some straight 2X4s to work with (or cut-offs as suggested) and rip them on the tables saw.

Wayne


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## BozoBee (Aug 31, 2009)

Great replies so far, please keep more coming if you have any other ideas for basic simple bars, with minimal tool: no nailers/stablers, have access to most saws (table, chop, hand, skil, no radial arm).

Heh, I got those measurements from your sight Mr. Bush. Kind of funny how you say not to use 1 1/2 twice and to use it once in the above post. Perhaps what you mean is to not use 1 1/2 exclusively? I am gonna rip down two different widths, 1 1/4, and 1 1/2.

For whatever reason, the 2x2s here are about as straight as they get. I do know what you mean by seeing some pretty knarly pieces of wood in the past, but I guess got some good stock recently at the stores here.

Making a giant pile of shims sounds like more work than I would want. I am looking for simplicity. Access to tools: table saw, hand saw, and chop saw, pretty much anything that cuts and not binds. 

So I think chopping at 15", table saw once for width (1 1/4 or 1 1/2), tilt to 45 degrees, flip on side run once, flip over run again (gate back to 3/8). I can run all of my bars through that last cutting steps without resseting, just leave it running and keep pushing them through. 4 cuts in all, then just notching. I am trying to make this as lazy as possible, I feel my hibernation fat in jeopardy if I put too much effort into it...


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## bigevilgrape (Aug 21, 2008)

The tool free method of making guides on top bars  I have no bees, but I've been stalking you tube.


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## stangardener (Mar 8, 2005)

can someone describe the tool free method for making comb guides? i am youtube challenged. thanks.


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## bigevilgrape (Aug 21, 2008)

He uses a sodering iron to melt beeswax onto a string (cotton or other natrual fiber) on the top bar. The wax attaches the string to the top bar. I would think you could find o ther methods to get waxy string attached to a top bar if you do not have a sodering iron.


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## BozoBee (Aug 31, 2009)

From what I have heard, not a very reliable method. It also requires upkeep, reattaching the string wax when you harvest. As well as if hives are warm, the wax can become to soft, making it a poor anchor point for the bees. It's best to leave any wax placement up to them, they make it best and stronger.


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## Ardilla (Jul 17, 2006)

Just be sure to use your push sticks on the table saw. Lately, I have been running into more and more people with shortened or missing fingers...


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## bigbearomaha (Sep 3, 2009)

No, you don't re-attach string from 'harvest' one should be leaving about a one inch strip of comb attached to the top bar when you cut it off.

In terms of applying wax, the only wax is a thin line in the center of the top bar to hold the string on. the whole rest of the underside of the top bar is accessible for bees to attach their own wax to., plenty strong.

enjoy the bees,

Big Bear


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## imcurtis (Feb 21, 2010)

Here is a link to how I solved the topbar and starter strip problem.

http://picasaweb.google.com/curtis.hensley/TopbarWaxStarterSolution#

I think the point of the starter strip is just to coax the bees to build their comb the way you want them to, right down the middle of your removable topbar.

Once they get the idea they keep the comb perfectly spaced, not always straight but spaced right, usually.


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## Zonker (Mar 10, 2010)

I don't have a table saw, but wanted to make angled top bars. Here's the easy way. 

get one 8' 2x10. Set your circular saw to 45 degrees. Cut down one edge. flip the board over and cut down the other side. You should have a 2x10 with a pointed end. Set the saw back to 0 degrees, mark 3/4" back from edge and cut off. repeat. The larger board lets you clamp easier and 2 x 10's are much better lumber than 2x4 and 2x2 (come from the center of the tree) and should stay straight for you. 

One 8'x2"x10" makes rough 30 bars roughly what you need for a hive

aloha


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## Zonker (Mar 10, 2010)

I use an 8' 2x10, which is much nicer lumber than the 2x2's or 2x4's. (comes from the middle of the tree). Set my circular saw at 45 and cut one edge. Flipped the board and cut the other side. Re-set the saw to 90 and cut off the edge of the board. Gives you plenty of room to clamp the board, and doesn't require a table saw or any fingers. Makes 30 bar at 5 bar per pass. 

You have to do plane off 1/8 to make the bars 1 3/8" but a hand plane is cheap compared to a table saw.


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## Aram (May 9, 2006)

So, you are good with a table saw, huh?

Here is how I do them:
Top Bars Pictorial
Good luck!


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

1 1/2" works well in the honey area. It does not work well in the brood area.


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## Scot Mc Pherson (Oct 12, 2001)

I make ripped blanks that a 1 1/4 X 1 1/2 inches. Then I can route it for either dimension to make the comb guide.

Scot


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## Shazam (Mar 1, 2010)

We used 1x12 oak that was laying about. Then we wedged it at a 30 degree incline. I considered using 2x12 fir and ripping it down to 1x12, but that would be more of a bother given our equipment, and we had/have lots of the oak as free wood laying about.

Here is a quick pic.


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## Zonker (Mar 10, 2010)

Lots of free oak laying around?!? Where do you live, in heaven?


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## Beethinking (Jun 2, 2008)

OAKland, of course!

:lookout:

Matt


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## Shazam (Mar 1, 2010)

Cacklewack said:


> OAKland, of course!


That was the most perfect straight line ever. Answer is near a friend who did a lot of work on a house and had some spare lumber


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## Margaret Sloan (Jun 23, 2008)

Last year I nailed small dowels on the bars for a guide, then rubbed them with beeswax. The bees followed the guides like champs, nice and straight. But as they got to the rear of the hive they started to build crooked, very wide comb for the honey. We never could get them to build that straight. 

That hive is all dead now, and since we were afraid we had AFB we burned all the bars, so this year I need all new bars. I'm going to try 1 3/8 bars for the brood nest, and wider bars for the honey area. Is 1 1/2" really wide enough?


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## Zonker (Mar 10, 2010)

Interesting, I vaguely heard that you needed to vary the bar width. I think I'm going to get/make some 1/8" spacers rather than make different bars. Then I can keep increasing the width till the bees like it. Maybe they make 1/8" thick veneer or molding I could use.


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## Margaret Sloan (Jun 23, 2008)

I don't understand how spacers work. Seems like it could get complicated?


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## Shazam (Mar 1, 2010)

We cut all the bars to 1 3/8". In retrospect I suppose I might have done it as 1 1/4.

As for spacers they are pretty simple. We cut 1/8" narrow shims of wood the same length as the top bars to slip between them for the honey comb, bringing the total width for those to 1 1/2". If its not thick enough can always use 2 spacers and go 1 5/8, but I don't think that'll be necessary from what I've read.


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## Beethinking (Jun 2, 2008)

I simply leave gaps between the bars (not big enough for bees to fit through) in the honey chamber and leave the bars pressed together in the brood chamber. The bees quickly fill in the gaps with propolis to seal it back up. This way I don't have to mess with spacers...

Matt


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## Slee (Jun 22, 2009)

I cut all of my bars the same size. I drill holes in each end of the bar and put pieces of dowel to keep my separation. It is the dowel that I cut to different sizes.
I will take some pics tomorrow so you can see.


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## Comoesq (Nov 14, 2009)

Is there a ratio of brood bars to honey bars? Also, what about locating the 2 types; where should brood be located? Should honey bars be on one end or both ends of the brood?


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