# Swarm trap design, Turning it on its side?



## ibmerlin (Mar 11, 2010)

I am thinking of putting together a few swam traps. I have read that you want a volume of 30 to 40 liters. with a 15cm opening at the bottom. I use mediums and was thinking of using a 8 frame medium size box that is placed on its side. (long ways) bottom facing the tree. The frames would go in up and down.

I figure that this way I can take the trap down the bees will alread be of the right size frames.

My question is will the bee have a problem with the frames going up and down?

Seem like a good idea? Any input from seasoned beekeepers would be appreciated


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## stoffel64 (Sep 23, 2010)

I can only offer my theoretical knowledge. 
I assume that you plan to turn the frames in the normal orientation 
after you have caught a swarm and the bee have settled.

I would not do that because it seems that the orientation of the frames is 
important. If you watch the video clips of doing a cut-out, the comb is 
always placed in the same orientation as it was build by the bees.

I also plan to put out a few bait hives using medium frames. I just use two 
medium nucs (5 frames per boxs), which I stack. 
The lower one has the entry hole (1 1/4 " diameter).

Cheers
Stefan


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

I have used mediums with a thin piece of plywood for the top and bottom. A 1 1/4" hole drilled in the top for an entrance.

If you used drawn frames the slope of the cells would be wrong. Vertically the frames would rest on the bottom side and lean off of the rabbit.


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## ibmerlin (Mar 11, 2010)

I had wondered about orientation of the frames. I did not realize that the cells had a slant to them. I am glad that I ask before started to build. 

Next Q, a box 7.5W 13H and 18.5W is about 30 liters. That is the size of two nucs. Could you fill the top with 5 frames and leave the bottom empty? The swarm should start working the old cone before making bur cone.They would be removed before they get to that point.


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## Fuzzy (Aug 4, 2005)

"That is the size of two nucs. Could you fill the top with 5 frames and leave the bottom empty?"

Yeah, you could but then Murphy ( of Murphy's law ) would lend you a hand and give you a 7 lb swarm. In 3 days the whole thing would be solid comb. In 10 days it would be full of brood.

But, what the heck..... Cutouts are fun.


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## stoffel64 (Sep 23, 2010)

I fill both nucs with medium frames. I hope this will work.
I will see that in a few months.


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## jrbbees (Apr 4, 2010)

If you are going to frames in the trap then frames is all of the trap.

Fuzzy has it right. I had a swarm draw out 10 deep frames that had new foudation in them in 4 days. The second deep was drawn in 6 days later.

I still have dreams about that swarm.

Consider getting some Certain(under different names now from Canada I beleive) and putting in 1 frame of drawn comb. then put foundation in the other frames. Spray all of them with Certain before putting them out.
Then when the swarm gets there they go to town!

You can do a search for Certain on this forum.


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## ibmerlin (Mar 11, 2010)

Thanks for the input. I was thinking that they would be easier to build if i could make them one piece and load the frames at the top. But I see your points and would hate to catch a swarm only to find that I have a trap full of burr comb. 

I will go with two pieces and fill both with frames. 

Any other advice for a first time trap builder would be appreciated.

Thanks again 
Merlin


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## tommyt (Aug 7, 2010)

Do a search for Dcoates nuc hives do it on google 
he shows how to make them simple and right down to every cut you 
need to make I think 5 or 6 out of 1 piece of 4x8 3/8 plywood 
Then I would stack 2 and use a 1x4 upright to screw them too 
use the 1x4 to attach to the tree 
when you do the search you'll see the 1x4 to hang them 

Good Luck 
Happy New Year
Tommyt


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## ibmerlin (Mar 11, 2010)

jrbbees said:


> Consider getting some Certain(under different names now from Canada I beleive) and putting in 1 frame of drawn comb. then put foundation in the other frames. Spray all of them with Certain before putting them out.
> Then when the swarm gets there they go to town!
> 
> You can do a search for Certain on this forum.


Thank you for the info, A search for Certain did not get any results on the forum or with google. Anyone know what it may be called now?

Thanks 
Merlin


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## ibmerlin (Mar 11, 2010)

I put one together today with Menard's value scrap lumber. So it cost about $6 to make. Its pretty much two medium NUCs on top of each other. The bottom half is about 1 1/2 inches deeper than the top. the bottom has a lip that goes up into the top to luck it in place. Inside volume is about 32 liters and the enter hole is 1 1/4 in. 

Pics:
http://s1126.photobucket.com/albums/l615/ibmerlin/

Let me know if I have forgotten anything. Thanks again for all the help
Merlin


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## WilliamsHoneyBees (Feb 17, 2010)

My suggestion is spend the money and make your swarm traps out of STANDARD size deep brood boxes. Slap a piece of plywood on top and a piece on the bottom drill a hole in the front about 3/8 to a half inch and fill it with all the drawn comb you have. Fill the remainder spaces with undrawn foundation. If i were you and I had 10 frames of drawn foundation I would make 5 traps using 2 frames in each trap and some lemon grass oil. More traps better odds of catching. Deep hive bodies can be used for new hives, to go around top feeders, or for your swarm traps. I have a nice stack of plywood tops and bottoms for deep supers for swarm traps. This way you are saving yourself money by not making specialized boxes. If i have extra solid bottom boards I screw them to the bottom of the swarm trap. This way when I catch a swarm I unscrew the top plywood throw on a inner cover and telescoping cover and that's it I'm done. Heres a video for you so you know what I'm talking about. When I hang them in a tree I cut a 1 x 6 about 20 inches long or so (scrap) and screw it to the side of the box. Then I screw through the side bracket into the tree. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvhFwur1E50

-Dan


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## WilliamsHoneyBees (Feb 17, 2010)

Should of also mentioned that standard sized mediums and 5 frame nuc boxes work well to. When it's swarm season. If I have extra boxes, they are sitting out with lemon grass oil and at least one frame of drawn comb in them. No special swarm trapping boxes. Just standard everday hive boxes full of frames. Hope this is helpful

-Dan


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

There is a canadian be supply comp that sells certan. link from google search.
http://www.beeworks.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=18

Or check the for sale section, see sundance BT its a much better deal. http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225796


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## ibmerlin (Mar 11, 2010)

KQ6AR said:


> There is a canadian be supply comp that sells certan. link from google search.
> http://www.beeworks.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=18
> 
> Or check the for sale section, see sundance BT its a much better deal. http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225796


Thank you Dan. I will order some before put out the traps.

Thanks!


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## ibmerlin (Mar 11, 2010)

pine_ridge_farms said:


> Deep hive bodies can be used for new hives, to go around top feeders, or for your swarm traps. I have a nice stack of plywood tops and bottoms for deep supers for swarm traps. This way you are saving yourself money by not making specialized boxes. If i have extra solid bottom boards I screw them to the bottom of the swarm trap. This way when I catch a swarm I unscrew the top plywood throw on a inner cover and telescoping cover and that's it I'm done. Heres a video for you so you know what I'm talking about. When I hang them in a tree I cut a 1 x 6 about 20 inches long or so (scrap) and screw it to the side of the box. Then I screw through the side bracket into the tree.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvhFwur1E50
> 
> -Dan


Thanks for the ideas Dan, All my hives are three 8 frame mediums. That is why I started looking into building a trap. Using one medium might be to small and the bees might ignore it for something bigger. I had one sitting out last year and caught nothing in it. I did catch two swarms in trees. 

Very cool Video! I will be using some old comb in each trap. And I was going to only make the two traps that I have made but I think you are right more is better.
How many do you put out and for how long?

Here is one of the finished traps. 









Thanks again for all the help
Merlin


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## WilliamsHoneyBees (Feb 17, 2010)

I put them out around may 1st and have them out for 2 months. I put out 10 last year and caught 4. I have a lot of hives this year that can be split I don't know how much trapping I will do this spring.

-Dan


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