# 1990 edition of ABC & XYZ of Bee Culture



## mythomane (Feb 18, 2009)

The XYZ is the bible of beekeeping, and is full of 100+ years of knowledge and insights. Keep in mind the version you are reading is 20 years old, and misses out on shb, ccd, etc. and is out of date. If every novice beekeeper just sat down and read it cover to cover (even the 1883 edition), there would be much less traffic on this site, and many obvious questions would be answered. Top bars are fine for the hobby keeper, but commercially or even sideliner keeper know that they become labor intensive. (Comfort would probably pick bones with me, but he would be in the minority.) Flottum, who has written a book recently entitled The Backyard Beekeeper, focuses more on the small hobbyist. Everyone has an opinion, but you might want to keep bees for a few years before coming down on people such as Flottum, who is a leader in the field. Get the new edition and read it -- it would be more beneficial to you time-wise than any website you might visit or create.


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## bigbearomaha (Sep 3, 2009)

I own the book "the backyard beekeeper" by Mr Flottum and I think it is a very good book, which also focuses entirely on langstroth "traditional" hives.

I have read books written by both men over time and found them both to be very good and informative, where langstroth hives are concerned.

I wasn't berating either of them, only observing, based on their writing, that in that book they tend to primarily view beekeeping through the eyes of a side-liner or commercial view. I didn't say they were bad or anything. 

While both men are obviously very experienced and well educated in the subject, that does not make them perfect or infallible. Some of histories best and brightest have been discovered to have been wrong on previously universally accepted 'truths'. All people are subject to personal bias and prejudices. it's part of what makes us human.
. 
You might find it interesting to know that not only hive design can change or improve over time, but that people can be quite creative and come up with new ways to make what was once unwieldy, workable. it's called ingenuity. I mention this because while at the time that book was published such development hadn't taken place yet. As time has moved on and more people have experimented with top bar hives, they have been finding ways to make them more productive for the environments and situations they create or find themselves in.

Public libraries in different areas do not always get to buy the newest versions of books. So, new beekeepers investigating things online and at logical places to find such books, (especially when they may not have the money to buy them) will look at libraries and have to read what is available.

I feel it is worth mentioning that such older books, being behind the times, do not necessarily accurately reflect trends and thinking that may have seen improvement or acceptance since then. However, if someone just looks at those old books in the library because it is their primary or only source, they may not get better information.

I think such obvious biases against top bar hives are inaccurate and limiting to the whole realm of beekeeping. people should be encouraged to explore options and see that things can be successful instead of being discouraged from the word go.

Big Bear


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## mythomane (Feb 18, 2009)

You do not have inter-library loan?


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## bigbearomaha (Sep 3, 2009)

The Omaha Library does and yet the newest edition they can find is that version. and, not every library system does have inter loans. this is not a discussion in where I am talking about Omaha alone. 

many small towns have less resources, especially those surrounded by highly rural areas. They get what they get and all they can do is ask the library to buy or arrange to get something newer. They might, they might not. 

Big Bear


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## BoBn (Jul 7, 2008)

In an older addition of ABC, these is some interesting writing about horizontal hives:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Excerpt from "The ABC and XYZ of BEE CULTURE"
By A.I and E.R. Root
1923
page 449-51


> LONG-IDEA HIVES.
> Some 50 years ago the long-idea hives -- that is, 30 and 35 frame hives all in one brood-nest--were advocated by various bee-keepers in the United States. Many at the time were very enthusiastic in praise of this hive; but when comb foundation and one-pound section honey-box came to the front these hives were dropped by nearly every one because they were not adapted to the production of comb honey. In latter years, especially during and following the period of the Great War, extracted honey was produced almost exclusively.
> . . .
> . . long-idea hive containing all the way from 25 to 35 frames. The dimensions of these hives would be more like that of a coffin or of a trunk.
> ...


At the time, there was a revival in extra deep frames such as the Dadant-Quinby hive, the ten-frame Jumbo and the twelve and thirteen frame hives.

There is also mention in this edition about the popularity of 8-frame hives.

Not much has changed in 90 years.


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## brac (Sep 30, 2009)

Thought I would do a wee bit of thread jacking.. I just picked up ABC & XYZ, as well as the hive and the honey bee. Which one should I read first?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Both. 

As far as the treatment of TBH, in 1990 they were not in common usage in the US. Now they are quite common. That was (when it was actually being written) two decades ago...


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## bigbearomaha (Sep 3, 2009)

Michael Bush said:


> Both.
> 
> As far as the treatment of TBH, in 1990 they were not in common usage in the US. Now they are quite common. That was (when it was actually being written) two decades ago...


You know the worst thing about that is, you make it sound 'old' using the term 'decades'. I am still young, attractive and 'fresh' ( unless you ask my kids) 

I am interested to see the 1923 edition quoted by BoBn takes a less 'unfriendly' approach to the idea of long hives at least and just goes to show how the notion that there is 'nothing new under the sun' holds up.

in 1923, the idea of horizontal hives is tolerable, in 1990 it's unacceptable. I really need to get a hold of a new edition to see what they say about it now. 

Big Bear


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I've got the newest one. It's about a page of TBH. Not pro or con, just the facts as they are commonly perceived, which I think are wrong.  Like that bees don't like to move horizontally etc. Despite the fact that the majority of hives in the world today and the majority of hives in the world throughout history from Russia and Finland to Saudi Arabia are and were horizontal hives, according to Eva Crane, who should know.


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## bigbearomaha (Sep 3, 2009)

I can appreciate a just the facts' based presentation anytime over a 'good or bad' presentation. at least the reader is invited to make up their own mind that way.

Big Bear


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## BoBn (Jul 7, 2008)

bigbearomaha said:


> in 1923, the idea of horizontal hives is tolerable, in 1990 it's unacceptable.
> Big Bear


If you think about the first part that I quoted:


> Some 50 years ago the long-idea hives -- . . .


It seems that there was a sort of revival of using long hives in the 1920s.
And a reference of their popularity in the late 1860s. 


bigbearomaha said:


> I can appreciate a just the facts' based presentation anytime over a 'good or bad' presentation.


Sometimes the editing may be more to blame than the author.


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## Skinner Apiaries (Sep 1, 2009)

I just ordered the 2007 one off ebay. I remember looking at a 70's version at my local library, but apparently someone stole it. Top bar hives are a pain. I plan to do mating nucs with strips, but that's only because we're running babies, and of course, since we wont exactly be migrating baby nucs... Dont think 2 and a half medium frames would cut it in almonds!


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