# John & Wayne's Honey Stick device



## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

http://www.johnwaynehoney.com/sticks.html

While the "manifold" may be food grade I'm wondering about the squeeze pump.

It looks like an interesting project but...


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## Flewster (Nov 3, 2003)

Why dont you PM and ask me how I test and develop my device? I have been in development for 5 years, tested and have made over 15 thousand honey sticks with my device. Buy it and take it to your state health dept and if they say no-go then i will refund your money. Do you treat your hives? I don't cause i dont want all those chemicals in my honey. I wont process my sticks with anything that would be bad either. I've passed all through my state.


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## dirt road (Jan 4, 2011)

Flewster; I'm not sure that BC was "bad mouthing" you. More like expressing some curiosity mixed with possibly some minor misgivings. If you have all the effort into the project you say, then I suppose it's natural to be a bit defensive, or maybe protective is a better word. Whatever his position is, a more positive response would be in your best interest.


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## Flewster (Nov 3, 2003)

dirt road said:


> Flewster; I'm not sure that BC was "bad mouthing" you. More like expressing some curiosity mixed with possibly some minor misgivings. If you have all the effort into the project you say, then I suppose it's natural to be a bit defensive, or maybe protective is a better word. Whatever his position is, a more positive response would be in your best interest.


Your right. Maybe I am a little protective of what I have done. Going through the patent process as we speak and that is at least a $5000 ordeal. I am just trying to offer a easy to use cost competitive product to my fellow beeks. I know what is in my machine. If you want to know just PM me. I have jumped through hoops, goals, and fire rings to get this down to a workable product. Is it perfect? NO. It is not a spit and polished project. But it works. I know it works and I am trying to offer another solution to you guys and gals. I think the price is fair for what it is. One season of selling sticks and you pay for it. and they make perfect samples for your honey when you sell to the public. Cut it in half and hand it to customer and 9 out of 10 times they buy a jar of honey.........and a bunch of sticks.......I am sorry if I came off too harsh. If you could see the comments people have made in private....makes me wonder if this site was the best place to first market the John & Wayne Honey, Honey Stick Machine. And I thought my mother in law was harsh on me.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

Your right, I'm not interested in buying one

And I think you're right to discuss the device in private.


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## cerezha (Oct 11, 2011)

Well, it is posted in "Equipment/Hardware Review", which means, it is expected to be reviewed and, yes, criticized if necessary. It is strange that device for food does not require the certification. It uses the heat, it means that all plastic parts would release more plastifier than at room temperature. Squeeze pump look very suspicious - I am using similar one to pump gasoline to the boat outboard engine. I apologize for review, nothing personal, just a potential customer...


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## Flewster (Nov 3, 2003)

cerezha said:


> Well, it is posted in "Equipment/Hardware Review", which means, it is expected to be reviewed and, yes, criticized if necessary. It is strange that device for food does not require the certification. It uses the heat, it means that all plastic parts would release more plastifier than at room temperature. Squeeze pump look very suspicious - I am using similar one to pump gasoline to the boat outboard engine. I apologize for review, nothing personal, just a potential customer...



I understand you questions and of course I had those same questions. In KS we have to have our honey processing facilities inspected by the state. They come at least once a year and we pay them our dollars they wave their magic food safety wand and we are once again given permission to continue to make food products for our customers. We have had this device in our processing facility for each of the last five years. It has been looked at and approved by KS state food kitchen inspectors for use in processing honey sticks. I am not sure what more I can say about my machine. I hope that you all have a good day.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Those of you bringing up food safety with plastic materials should consider ordinary PVC and CPVC water pipe. It is obviously carrying food for human consumption, and in the cases of CPVC pipe, rated for use with hot water.

The PVC pipe is not rated for _hot _water, but that is because of _pressure _concerns, not food safety. Ordinary PVC (cold water use) is used everywhere. Even if you don't have it in your building, it is almost certainly in use somewhere in virtually every municipal water system in the country.


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## RogerCrum (Jun 19, 2011)

Flewster, congrats on the elegant simplicity of your design. The pump is not frightening at all as I am very comfortable with a turkey baster, zip lock bags, ketchup bottles, all manner of plastic storage and food preparation devices. In use, the warm honey is only briefly in the squeeze bulb. 

All in all, a nice quiet device for cottage industry packaging of one's own honey for convenient customer enjoyment. 
Roger


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## Flewster (Nov 3, 2003)

RogerCrum said:


> Flewster, congrats on the elegant simplicity of your design. The pump is not frightening at all as I am very comfortable with a turkey baster, zip lock bags, ketchup bottles, all manner of plastic storage and food preparation devices. In use, the warm honey is only briefly in the squeeze bulb.
> 
> All in all, a nice quiet device for cottage industry packaging of one's own honey for convenient customer enjoyment.
> Roger


Thank you. I guess you said it better than i could. I looked all over my ketchup packet i got from wendys and nowhere is there a certification for use with food. Thank you for your kind comments

Wayne


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## Brandy (Dec 3, 2005)

So, is the pump approved by itself a food grade pump, or is it that you've been using it in your facility and KS Health didn't say anything about it?


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## Flewster (Nov 3, 2003)

Brandy said:


> So, is the pump approved by itself a food grade pump, or is it that you've been using it in your facility and KS Health didn't say anything about it?


Great question. Answer is BOTH.


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## linn (Nov 19, 2010)

I really wish my bee club would buy your machine. There are always requests for the club to speak at various places like the game farm, library, school ... This machine would be such a draw. Think of the group of kids watching those honey sticks being filled-especially at county fairs.


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## Flewster (Nov 3, 2003)

It is patent pending thank you very much. A machine does not have to be power driven to get a patent.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Flewster said:


> A machine does not have to be power driven to get a patent.


Indeed.

Here is a story about a relatively recently (2005) patented _wrench _fighting a competitor:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/09/b...ghts-a-chinese-rival.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

The popular Vise-Grip wrench was first patented in 1921.








Image linked from, and more on the history of this tool here:
http://www.livinghistoryfarm.org/farminginthe40s/machines_12.html


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## Flewster (Nov 3, 2003)

I wish to thank all the people who have kept an open mind on my machine. There are those that find it necessary to nit pick and say things they have no clue about. I have to wonder their motive. Are they jealous of what i have made? Maybe they wish they were talented enough to design, research, patent and build one themselves. Or maybe they are just pot stirrers. Whatever their motive it will not deter me from offering the small beek the opportunity to get out from the large corp and make their own sticks with their own honey. With an easy to operate device that will pay for itself in one season. Only two people have called and talked to me personally. Two more have pm'ed me and asked what they wanted to know. All good inventions were criticized and i wont be deterred. Thank you to my fellow beeks who understand and appreciate an inventor.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

Are you getting a patent on the hot plate? 

How about the $29 impulse sealer? 

Squeezing honey into a straw isn't novel enough to warrant a patent. And there is prior art of your exact arrangement...


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## beeman2009 (Aug 23, 2012)

Flewster,

Don't let these guys rattle your cage. Whatever the reason there will always be some who have something to say. Keep up your work, make improvements if you can or want to. I wonder how many would be here on beesource if Langstroth had listen to all the negative coments in his day. :scratch:

Anyway, we are out of work right now, but when it picks up I would like one of your machines.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

BeeCurious said:


> Are you getting a patent on the hot plate?


Gosh, give the guy a break. He came up with a prototype that works. How many similar devices on beesource have you seen since 2007? I've been here a good number of years and haven't seen many functional honey straw devices brought forward. 

Flewster,

Thanks for having the willingness to throw your ideas into our forum!


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## Flewster (Nov 3, 2003)

BeeCurious said:


> Are you getting a patent on the hot plate?
> 
> How about the $29 impulse sealer?
> 
> Squeezing honey into a straw isn't novel enough to warrant a patent. And there is prior art of your exact arrangement...



No wonder you havent came up with a better idea. Your trying to use a cheap $29 sealer and not a quality sealer from the leader in impulse sealers, such as i use and send with my machine.


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## cerezha (Oct 11, 2011)

BeeCurious said:


> There is no "machine" that can be patented.


 I do not understand. I could patent anything if it was not patented before - I just need to pay $20K (more?) to reserve the idea, thing, whichever for me. Patent would just declare my ownership of the thing. The best example of patenting smartness was Singer, who patented the hole in the tip of the needle. The president of company called me another day - they patented the new way of sequencing DNA using electron microscope, but they actually do not know how to do it. They wanted me to do the job to prove that their patent make sense. I made what they wanted and now they are very unhappy because I did something, which they could not do. Now they do not want to pay me for the job. Patenting law in this country is weird.


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## cerezha (Oct 11, 2011)

Flewster said:


> ... There are those that find it necessary to nit pick and say things they have no clue about. I have to wonder their motive. ....


 Don't take anything personal on *beesource* Flewster. This is place where bee-lovers are socializing and have fun. It is not patenting bureau. But, in this chatter, one could find a grain of useful information. The fact that people discuss your device is already beneficial to you - your device is already on top in google search! Good luck with your device and happy holidays! Sergey


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

Flewster said:


> No wonder you havent came up with a better idea.


Do you want a better idea? 

Install tee's above the manifold valves so you can fill two straws from each value. The honey should enter each pair of straws equally...


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## Flewster (Nov 3, 2003)

Now that is not too bad an idea. right now it uses up almost the whole 16" of the sealer. Might make it too wide with the tee's but can see where your going with that.


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## Lynx Hive (Mar 21, 2012)

Flewster said:


> Now that is not too bad an idea. right now it uses up almost the whole 16" of the sealer. Might make it too wide with the tee's but can see where your going with that.


Hello!
I would like to ask - do you have some very special kind of sealer? I bought one usual sealer, that is usually offered here in Europe, but it does not seal my straws normally - they are leaking. Maybe the problem is in improper wattage - I have a 300W unit.
Or maybe I need some special straws? I have tried several types of ****tail straws, but with none I have succeeded to have non leaking straws...  Could you give some comment on that, please!!!


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## Flewster (Nov 3, 2003)

300 watt is not enough for what your doing. I recommend at least a 750 watt unit and a good tip is that when you seal........have it set pretty high and hold the sealer down for several seconds after the sealer turns off to set teh seal in place. Firm pressure is needed to complete the seal. Good luck to you.

Wayne


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

Flewster,
You may be too thin skinned to be an inventor. But then again, maybe not. I've invented a dozen products and sold the patents of a few. 
Most of the best "upgrades" I received was from a different set of eyes seeing the product from a different view. Critics are your best friends in this business as you just witnessed from BC.
I have another idea that will literally be worth millions. That's just for the patent.


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## Lynx Hive (Mar 21, 2012)

Flewster said:


> 300 watt is not enough for what your doing. I recommend at least a 750 watt unit and a good tip is that when you seal........have it set pretty high and hold the sealer down for several seconds after the sealer turns off to set teh seal in place. Firm pressure is needed to complete the seal. Good luck to you.
> 
> Wayne


Ouch, I see the problem!!! Yes, I am definitely holding the pressure for long enough time after the sealer have turned off, but still most of the straws are leaking. We even "tuned-up" the sealer to have a longer sealing time than default max. time - still without a luck. So now I see where is the main problem - not enough sealing power! Thank you very much for the advice!

By the way - how much that 750 W sealer costs in USA? If I won't be able to get one in Europe, I will have to buy one from USA, and maybe even together with your system.  Thanks!


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

Lynx


http://www.plasticbagpartners.com/Hand_Impulse_Heat_Sealer_s/11315.htm

$115.00


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## Flewster (Nov 3, 2003)

I have the sealer i recommend for sale on my site www.honeystickmachine.com i wish you luck in your endeavor and if you have any questions dont hesitate to pm me on here.


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## Lynx Hive (Mar 21, 2012)

Hello, everyone!
Question regarding honey sticks! We have managed to tune our impulse sealer to get those straws sealed without leaking. Now the question is - how do you trim them so that straws are easy to open without scissors? You should be able to pop the straw opened just with a slight pressure with fingers or by a bite with teeth. If you don't trim the straw, it is almost impossible to open it with teeth or fingers. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance!


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## tommyt (Aug 7, 2010)

Who owns one of these?? 
This thread is an old ghost from 2012

If it does work I'd like to see a you-tube 


Thanks


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## Lynx Hive (Mar 21, 2012)

TommyT - owns what?
Yes, thread is old, but issues and questions still important!  And it looks like there is still only few (1-2?) companies in the world (and I don't mean China) who has managed to solve this tricky straw filling / sealing / trimming task. If you have any advice, I'd be glad to hear! I am from Europe, so I won't be a competitor on your local market in USA.  Thanks!


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

cerezha said:


> I do not understand. I could patent anything if it was not patented before - I just need to pay $20K (more?)


This is simply not true.
In order to be patentable, the idea has to be novel (new), and not 'obvious for someone skilled in the art'. 
All the patent does is give you the right to sue someone for violating it...then the fun begins.
When I was working on a patent (for a new mechanism for the saxophone) it was before some of the biotech patenting took off, but something like 2/3 of the patents that had been awarded and challenged (meaning the patent was violated and the owner sued) were found to be unpatentable in court.
In some fields $20k is about right, but in many fields one need not spend so much...it really depends on what you are going to do with the patent (use it and defend it, or sell it to a very large company and let them defend it with their team of lawyers).
In my case, I got reasonably far into the process (I did the patent search myself,which required me to go to Albany to physically look through volumes of patents...this saved me money, and I doubt you would have to go to a physical library to do that today), it helped get me a job, and I decided that if anyone was going to violate the patent, it would likely be Yamaha, and they were unlikely to buy my patent, and I would be unlikely to match their lawyer power.
One of the most interesting modern patents was the intermittent windshield wiper...everyone violated it because they didn't consider it patentable, but the courts disagreed, and the owner made out like a bandit!

deknow


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## tommyt (Aug 7, 2010)

tommyt said:


> who owns one of these??
> This thread is an old ghost from 2012
> 
> if it does work i'd like to see a you-tube
> ...



anyone !!!!!!


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## BeeKeith (Jan 16, 2011)

I read a book by the guy who came up with the "Pet Rock". His summation of a patent... An invitation to a law suit.


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## Flewster (Nov 3, 2003)

tommyt said:


> anyone !!!!!!


I have posted a YouTube video of my machine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfgXUiE2fmg


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