# Queen Rearing Kits



## Jay T (May 3, 2010)

Good Morning,
Can anyone give some feedback on Mann Lakes COMPLETE QUEEN REARING KIT. I want to raise some queens and would like some feedback from anyone that has used this product. One question I have is this something Im only going to use over and over. A lot of time when I use a product like this I learn an easier way due to what I have learned and is it worth it our should go a different direction right now.
Any thoughts
Jay T


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## jdpro5010 (Mar 22, 2007)

You can always just try grafting. I use the Nicot and do some grafting also. I like the Nicot, and think grafting is something that to be good at you really need to do alot of it. The Nicot does add a few steps to the process but is worth it to me for all the more queens I raise.


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## kwest (May 16, 2009)

I Have a brand new one that i have yet to use. I got it for my birthday and was excited to use it. Until i watched the fat bee man's video on queen rearing. I decided to use his method. It worked well my first round until i goofed up and figured the days wrong and 7 of the 8 queens hatched before i got to them but i got one queen cell and ended up with two new queens/ hive out of the deal. the second round didn't go as good but i dont think i had enough bees in the queen rearing box. I found that it is best to move the mother queen to a new split and sqeeze the hive down so they are busting at the seams to raise the new queen cells in the old queens hive location. I really decided to stay away from the mann lake method because i heard that it was hard on a queen locking her in a box, messes with her egg laying cycle? im not sure but made since at the time.  i heard that sometimes they never start laying good again once you lock them up?


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## Jay T (May 3, 2010)

Thanks for the input, I have seen the fat bee's you tube I will review aagin.

Thanks
Jay T


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## Jim Stevens (Jan 15, 2007)

Jay T,
you might like to read this; 
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239232
Jim


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## Yuleluder (Mar 2, 2005)

I would try grafting as a previous poster suggested. Graft three or four bars for practice, and if you get that many queens you can just add three or four or more to a mating nuc.


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## Grant (Jun 12, 2004)

I scratched down my process using the Nicot unit from Mann Lake. I like it. Some of the tricks are to put the egg laying unit in the hive for 24 to 48 hours to "warm up" before you confine the queen to it.

I also have queens that exhibit a little reluctance to start laying eggs in the unit so it's like they need a day to decide it's okay. This will throw off your schedule a little bit.

The Nicot plan is not perfect, but I don't graft. Everyone thinks I should graft, everyone tells anyone can do it. In truth, the Nicot unit is a grafting method where you move the entire cell instead of digging the larva out of the long, dark cell with a shaky hand and limiting eye sight.

Nicot overcomes the handicaps, but presents other challeges. It's a trade-off.

Here's my info: http://www.nicot.homestead.com

Grant
Jackson, MO

http://maxhoney.homestead.com

.


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## toomanyhandles (Jun 24, 2009)

I found at one time a site that showed a method of rearing queen cells by making room for a queen cell to be drawn simply by clearing room for them on a frame. Taking a small putty knife-sized tool and simply clearing space so that in a drawn frame of eggs you wanted to work with, the workers could easily start drawing vertical queen cells.

I could not find that just now, does someone know where that lives?

They had a smiley face drawn using queen cells on a frame, IIRC.


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

Not sure about that, but PM Oldtimer... I think he has made some modified combs that may be close to what you are describing... Not sure what thread I got that from, so if Im wrong... sorry. lol.

I have never tried the system that you guys are discussing here... although i have seen it before... have to admit, it sound kinda out there... cage the queen and let her lay in the plastic cells, then move the plastic cells to a builder? Seems like a ton of extra work, and a loss of one of the greatest joys of queen rearing... I fully understand about the eyesight issues... My father couldnt see well, but he loved to teach... Glenda, my sister (the Queen Bee);-) loves it, my mother loves to tell her stories of grafting in the bee yard in a bra and shorts lol, and one of my greatest joys is sitting beneath a shade tree in isolation yards grafting with a glass of tea and listening to the radio. lol.

To my father it was a great way of bringing someone further down the rabbit hole...

Not knocking it... just wouldnt want anyone to miss out on grafting.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

OK well the method I use is to hang a bar with a smallish piece of foundation in the queen compartment in the breeder hive. The next day it will be drawn & have eggs in and it gets moved to the part of the hive with no queen. In 4 days the eggs are starting to hatch, (Or properly, emerge, as the shell kind of melts and is absorbed, rather than an actual hatching).

At this stage the comb is cut with a sharp knife into strips and attached to cell bars with molten wax. Then larvae have to be killed by poking a hole in the bottom of the cell with a screwdriver. You go along the row and leave every third larva for the bees to turn into a queen. 

After that it gets treated the same as a bar of grafted cells.

But the advantage is the larva are not actually grafted so their feeding is not interrupted.

Reading what I've written it sounds incredibly complicated! . But I'll photograph the whole process and post it, after I've had my Christmas break. In pictures it will show how easy it is.


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## Beewrangler (Feb 20, 2010)

Oldtimer said:


> OK well the method I use is to hang a bar with a smallish piece of foundation in the queen compartment in the breeder hive. The next day it will be drawn & have eggs in and it gets moved to the part of the hive with no queen. In 4 days the eggs are starting to hatch, (Or properly, emerge, as the shell kind of melts and is absorbed, rather than an actual hatching).
> 
> At this stage the comb is cut with a sharp knife into strips and attached to cell bars with molten wax. Then larvae have to be killed by poking a hole in the bottom of the cell with a screwdriver. You go along the row and leave every third larva for the bees to turn into a queen.


The Method described here is also known as the Hopkins method. I have never tried it or know anyone that has tried it. It seems to me that if you are looking for a method that doesn't use a lot of equipment and is fairly easy but has the potential to produce a good quantity of queens at once this would be it.

You can find detailed descriptions of the Hopkins method at Bush Bees, 

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesqueenrearing.htm

also here, from Jerry Hayes

http://www.beesource.com/point-of-view/jerry-hayes/the-hopkins-method-of-queen-rearing/

I would like everyone to note that I have never raised queens by any method and the information that I have listed here is only my opinion.


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## fat/beeman (Aug 23, 2002)

instead of going thru all that trouble the simplest way to make queens is spend no money on fancy boxes that you have to catch queens and run risk of killing a perfectly good queen only to lat 100 eggs. just confine the whole hive to a single story and feed like crazy. they will make more cells then a hobby beekeeper can use. just cut cells out and put in another box or hive with frame of honey and pollen and then let them hatch.now this is hoping you already have drones and a good stock.

no charge for the lesson{lol}

Don


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## kwest (May 16, 2009)

Don, 
Do you leave the queen in the hive or do you make them queenless? 

thanks, 
Kurt


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## fat/beeman (Aug 23, 2002)

I leave them in. just cut out the cells then.
Don


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## KevinR (Apr 30, 2010)

If Don didn't cover it. He uses wax foundation with fishing line support.

Depending on your foundation, it might be hard to cut out the cells.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

Yeah, I've never had much success cutting cells off plastic foundation.


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## Jim Stevens (Jan 15, 2007)

Every thing I own is plastic. I prefer Ritecell foundation in wood. That’s just me.
I do Q Cell cutouts all the time during swarm season; The Bees construct the cell with plenty of wax. If one is carful and with a little practice Q cell cutouts becomes second nature. 
When I first started I would make cuts at one cell to the right, one cell above and one cell to the left of the QC( I hope that makes sense!). Then gently slip the tool under the Q cell and lift away from the foundation. I don’t even think about it now, just do it. I will place the QCs in mating Nucs
I like to place two Q cells per Nuc if I have them, better chance that one will make it.
It pays to keep spare Queens around; coming from your own stock makes it even better.

Jim


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## mackelby (Dec 5, 2010)

What do you do with these extra queens you have around and how are they kept?


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## Jim Stevens (Jan 15, 2007)

mackelby said:


> What do you do with these extra queens you have around and how are they kept?


Mackelby,
•	Do splits and introduce a mated and laying Queen.
•	Make-up Nucs and Introduce a mated and laying Queen.
•	Sell them to club Members; someone’s always looking for Queens.
•	Replace old and or failing Queens.
•	In July and August make Nucs add a Queen, sell a Nuc.
•	In August I will make-up a few Nucs and keep them to replace winter loses, I hope I don't have to do replacements.

I keep them in the mating Nuc two weeks or more if need, before moving to full size equipment.
I’m not pressed for mating Nuc space; I only do 15 to 20 a season.
I made ten of these Minnie Nucs;








Jim


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## Jim Stevens (Jan 15, 2007)

Ten mating nuclei I made to use with the Nicot unit, or add some bees to them 
install a Q cell that’s been cut from a frame and there up an running. 








Jim


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## JRH (Dec 30, 2010)

What technique do you use to get the bees - initially - to draw the comb for the mini frames?

In the frames are you using foundation or starter strips?

Many thanks. (I have just built my first few mini nucs.)


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## mackelby (Dec 5, 2010)

Very interesting Jim! You must be replacing queens frequently or you grow every year. I am every bit a newbie by the way, as if it wasn't obvious. Very interested in process.


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## gkervitsky (Nov 20, 2008)

Jim,

Nice work on the minnie nucs. If you would not mind sharing, what are the minnie nuc box dimensions you are using? They look like 1/2 length deep frames, but I figured that I'd inquire. 

Thanks in Advance,
George


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## Jim Stevens (Jan 15, 2007)

JRH said:


> What technique do you use to get the bees - initially - to draw the comb for the mini frames?
> 
> In the frames are you using foundation or starter strips?


I made what I call the Draw Box, it’s nothing more than a Deep hive body that’s been portioned off to support the Mini frames, the portion runs lengthwise to support more frames.
It holds 15 Deep Mines.
I’m using Mann lake bee waxed Rite-cell ® Foundation, FN-500 Natural color, and FN-510 Black. I can see eggs and larva much easier on the Black.
In the spring I placed this Draw box on a strong hive needing space. Then I sprayed each frame/ foundation with sugar syrup before installing them.
I threw on the lid; it has a cut out for a feeder jar that’s filled with a shot of carbohydrate.
Remember don’t plan on getting honey from this hive, dedicate it to draw and fill the mini frames.
I did not cut and install the foundation in the frames until the day I was ready to set the Draw Box on the hive. Keep your beeswax coated foundation
wrapped and sealed tight until you’re ready to use it, no matter whose Brand it is. It will retain that good beeswax smell.
Draw Box;








Jim


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## Jim Stevens (Jan 15, 2007)

gkervitsky said:


> Jim,
> 
> If you would not mind sharing, what are the minnie nuc box dimensions you are using? They look like 1/2 length deep frames, but I figured that I'd inquire.
> 
> ...


At the time I built the Minni Nuc’s I burned way too much sawdust in the shop, I mean I thought about it way too much!
Unassembled commercial grade frame cost $0.69 and a bee waxed Rite-cell ® Foundation cost $0.81 ea.
I thought $0.81ea! What? That expensive, don’t waste that foundation!
I cut the foundation in half; 8 3/8”, then built the frame around this.
I bought deep frames (9 1/8”) in a bundle of a 100. Cut the top bar to 10 ½”Long.
Used standard deep side bars, and cut the bottom bars to length.
The frames are stapled and glued together.
The Nuc body, Lid and Bottom board is made from; 1”X12” Pine.
Bottom board is cut to; 6 3/8”Wide X 12 ½” long.
Lid is cut to;6 7/16”W X 13 ½”L, the end cleat is cut to;1” X ¾” X 6 7/16”L
The cleat is glued and stapled to the underside of the lid. 
Outside dimensions of the Body are; 11 ½” long X 6 3/8” W. x 9 7/8”high
I cut the frame rest with a table saw, set the blade to cut ¾” deep, set the fence @ 3/8”
Do a test cut on scrap first and check diminutions.
Then make the cut on the end peace that will support the frames. 
Step 2, set the blade to cut 3/8” deep, set the fence @ 3/4”, and remember to compensate for blade thickness.
Remember that scrap we used to check blade set?
Lay the scrap flat on table saw and make this second cut, check diminutions if they look good you’re ready to make the cut on the good end peace.
Assemble, glue and nail
I use Tite Bond III adhesive on all woodenware 
I hope this makes sense! And not too much rambling on.
Jim


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## gkervitsky (Nov 20, 2008)

Jim, 

Many thanks! It makes sense you did a good job explaining. In the photo (draw box) there appears to be a rather large space to the left of the box containing the frames. What is the purpose of that space? My thought is that you can then fit 2 draw boxes on a 10 frame hive to draw the comb for the minie nucs, is that correct? Our build strategies are about the same, but I only use foundation strips in frames.

George


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## slickbrightspear (Jan 9, 2009)

nice mini nucs love them


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