# 5:3 fall sugar water mix



## AkDan

my bees are going to town on this! 

Taking a 5lb bag and 3 pint jars of hot water....working like a champ!


----------



## krad1964

What problem does 5:3 solve that is caused by 2:1? If it just works better, what specifically works better? Thanks.


----------



## Hoosier

krad1964 said:


> What problem does 5:3 solve that is caused by 2:1? If it just works better, what specifically works better? Thanks.


It's easier to get it all dissolved, and after a few days there are no signs of crystallizing.


----------



## toekneepea

Hoosier said:


> It's easier to get it all dissolved, and after a few days there are no signs of crystallizing.


5:3 won't crystallize all the way down to 32 degrees Fahrenheit (0 Celsius)

Tony P.


----------



## krad1964

Thanks. I'll give it a try. Looks like:

*25# SUGAR* - 15# WATER - *7.5 QUARTS*


----------



## Hoosier

krad1964 said:


> Thanks. I'll give it a try. Looks like:
> 
> *25# SUGAR* - 15# WATER - *7.5 QUARTS*


Yep, and it ought to make about two gallons for you. Be sure that it boils somewhat as you stir it.


----------



## JYawn

Anyone know how close just using a quart mason jar for measurement would get this ratio???

Example... 5 quarts Sugar;3 quarts Water.

I'm thinking it's got to be pretty close but not exact.


----------



## Kelbor

I would weigh the sugar instead of measure it...I think that is what is meant in the recipe (though Im not sure how much a quart of sugar weighs....)


----------



## mgolden

Quart of sugar = 26.6 ounces

Quart of water = 32 ounces

This is full to the top of the jar.

So for a 5:3 need 5 quart of sugar(133 ounces) and 2 1/2 quart of water(80 ounces)


----------



## shannonswyatt

OK, so it sounds like you can do 2 cups of sugar to one of water, and just multiply it to your needs. Of course I was taught math in a public school, so there you go.


----------



## Keth Comollo

My tap water must be too hot as I can make 2:1 all day long without having to boil anything.


----------



## Myron Denny

Michael Bush does all the figuring for you on this. Go to Bush Bee Farm:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfeeding.htm#ratios


----------



## Hoosier

Myron Denny said:


> Michael Bush does all the figuring for you on this. Go to Bush Bee Farm:
> http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfeeding.htm#ratios


And on that page Michael Bush says, " I use more like 5:3 (sugar:water) all the time. It keeps better than 1:1 and is easier to dissolve than 2:1."


----------



## Hoosier

mgolden said:


> *Quart of sugar = 26.6 ounces
> *
> Quart of water = 32 ounces
> 
> This is full to the top of the jar.
> 
> So for a 5:3 need 5 quart of sugar(133 ounces) and *2 1/2 quart of water*(80 ounces)


*Not really:*
*One cup of sugar weighs 220 grams*
/*One quart of sugar weighs 880 grams = 31.04077 ounces* (almost 2 pounds)
5 X 31.04 = 155.2 ounces of sugar (*almost 10 pounds*) *SO* 3 X 31 = 93 ounces or about *3 quarts of water*


----------



## Hoosier

shannonswyatt said:


> OK, so it sounds like you can do *2 cups of sugar to one of water*, and just multiply it to your needs. Of course I was taught math in a public school, so there you go.


*Not really:*
1 cup of sugar=220 grams
2 cups of sugar=440 grams = 15.52 ounces (almost one pound) 
1 cup of water= 8 ounces=227 grams= (1/2 pound) so *You would be doing a 2:1 mix* not a 5:3
You could do 2 cups of sugar with 9.3 ounces (264 grams) of water; that would give you a 5:3 ratio.


----------



## Hoosier

JYawn said:


> Anyone know how close just using a quart mason jar for measurement would get this ratio???
> 
> Example... 5 quarts Sugar;3 quarts Water.
> 
> *I'm thinking it's got to be pretty close but not exact.*


*Yep, close enough.*


----------



## shannonswyatt

Math is hard, my head hurts. Why can't they make sugar weigh as much as water? <grin>


----------



## mgolden

Hoosier said:


> *Not really:*
> *One cup of sugar weighs 220 grams*
> /*One quart of sugar weighs 880 grams = 31.04077 ounces* (almost 2 pounds)
> 5 X 31.04 = 155.2 ounces of sugar (*almost 10 pounds*) *SO* 3 X 31 = 93 ounces or about *3 quarts of water*


Not worthy of a response, but go weigh a quart completely full of water and a quart completely full of sugar, as I did.

shannonswyatt nails it - multiples of 2 cups of sugar to 1 cup of water will make very close to 5:3 sysrup mixture.

Simpler yet, is two volumes of sugar to one volume of water gives very close to 5:3.


----------



## shannonswyatt

Woo hoo! I got one right!


----------



## Hoosier

shannonswyatt said:


> Woo hoo! I got one right!


You're close, but it would depend on what you call two cups of sugar:
"2 7 oz. cups" =14 ounces of sugar divided by 5 = 2.8 ounces 2.8 X 3 = 8.4 ounces of water The .4 of an ounce would be significant if you were making a large quantity.
2 8 oz. cups = 16 ounces of sugar divided by 5 = 3.2 ounces 3.2 X 3 = 9.6 ounces of water; that's very significant.


----------



## shannonswyatt

Boo hoo, I'm still wrong!


----------



## Hoosier

http://butterbaking.wordpress.com/conversions/ 
We measure by standard cups = 8 ounces or whatever is being measured, i.e., a cup full of feathers would not be 8 ounces and 4 cups (a quart) of feathers would not be 32 ouncesl.
A measurement of sugar being 7 ounces = only 200 grams = 7.05472 is not a CUP that can be compared to *a cup of water (ALWAYS 8 ounces)*.


----------



## shannonswyatt

Nobody told me that to keep bees I had to know how to cook!


----------



## mgolden

Tell me more how I'm wrong.

I weighed a full quart of sugar and a full quart of water and did the math.

Was taught the Imperial system and metric system in grade school and am comfortable working in either.

A baking chart is laden with approximate conversions of volumes.


----------



## curios1

i have been useing just by volume 1 to 1. and 2 to 1. my bees cant tell the difference and they take it in just the same. OH WELL !


----------



## Hoosier

curios1, LOL


----------



## Hoosier

mgolden said:


> Tell me more how I'm wrong.
> 
> I weighed a full quart of sugar and a full quart of water and did the math.
> 
> Was taught the Imperial system and metric system in grade school and am comfortable working in either.
> 
> A baking chart is laden with approximate conversions of volumes.



Your math was right if you use 26.6 ounces instead of 31.04077 ounces of sugar per quart.


----------



## Hoosier

mgolden said:


> ...A baking chart is laden with approximate conversions of volumes.


That's true, e.g., the absolute weight of a cup of sugar is 226.8 grams; however, since granules of granulated sugar vary in size it's almost always given as 220 grams per cup.
Using 226.8 grams per cup, we get *907.2 grams per quart = 32.00021 ounces.

*


----------



## Myron Denny

I bought several barrels of junk sugar (warehouse sweepings), the last 8" of the first barrel was so hard a rock bar would not break it loose. I set the barrel on it's side in the yard and sprayed water in it. The bees have cleaned all the hard sugar out. I now throw 2 shovels of junk sugar in the barrel and spray it with water, I am getting all kinds of flying insects but still mostly bees. I am not mixing this at all, The bees are taking it. What kind of problems am I going to experience?


----------



## shannonswyatt

You could end up like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NhUFWQV_yU


----------



## mgolden

No value in any further discussion and complicated mixing ratios. 

Two volumes of sugar to one volume of water = 5:3 and bees will be happy.


----------



## Hoosier

shannonswyatt said:


> You could end up like this:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NhUFWQV_yU


Yep, either that or his bees could end up moving to Big Rock Candy Mountain when those barrels are empty.


----------



## Michael Bush

I wonder if the hardness of water affects the amount of sugar that will dissolve. I never could get 2:1 to dissolve well and it crystallizes very quickly. And I'm adding it to boiling water and continue to heat until it dissolves. Yet others say they can get it to mix with hot tap water. I assume they are measuring correctly and that there is some other difference such as water hardness to explain this. If I could get 2:1 to work consistently and not crystallize I would do that, but since it doesn't I do 5:3. As far as weight and volume, the bees just aren't that picky. We aren't making anything that is that critical. It's not a chemistry formula. It's not a recipe for something really touchy. It's just syrup.


----------



## Hoosier

I agree. Mine is still crystallizing even with 5:3, but not as much. I think it's because it's sitting in a top feeder, the one I've mentioned before, and the sun is pounding down on the cover board all day long. That's probably causing a lot of evaporation.


----------



## Ben Franklin

Hoosier said:


> Yep, and it ought to make about two gallons for you. Be sure that it boils somewhat as you stir it.


I tip I would highly suggest is to pour the sugar slowly into the Hot water. As the sugar has air around it, when you pour a lot in at once it will boil over. I learned the hard way. Not only does it burn it is hell to clean up.


----------



## shannonswyatt

When I mixed it I just took hot water from the tap, put it in the Microwave for a bit (not a rolling boil or anything) and then poured it into the sugar. I'm not making it by the gallons though. My guess is that it probably less work to pour the sugar into the boiling water though, as I have to stir the thick solution for a while, whereas the boiling water probably does more of the work. Be careful though, I seem to remember that when you put sugar in water it raises the boiling temp. I would think that it would be very easy to get a big mess of burned up sugar if you didn't pay attention, as the super heated water could potentially boil away quickly and as Ben Franklin mentioned, that stuff is going to be murder cleaning up.


----------



## Hoosier

I give up. Even with 5:3 ratio mine is still crystallizing in my top feeder. I'm going with a 1:1 ratio, 4# sugar to 2 quarts (or more) of water, hoping to melt all the sugar crystals in the feeder. I used my hive tool to break up the crystals into small pieces hoping the warm, thin sugar water would/will melt the crystals.


----------



## Myron Denny

I am guessing everyones water will be a different ph. I am also guessing the ph has as much to do with mixing and crystalizing as anything. I have extra hard well water, I do not know what the ph is??? There are times in the winter when I end up with crystallized sugar in the jar or top feeders. I have very little crystalizing in the summer.


----------



## BeeCurious

I keep a lid on the pot when making syrup. In general, my water is hot but not boiling when I add the sugar. I lower the heat and stir to keep the sugar off the bottom. 

I think a lot of water can be lost if the pot is left uncovered. Especially if the water is allowed to boil.


----------



## curios1

Hoosier said:


> I give up. Even with 5:3 ratio mine is still crystallizing in my top feeder. I'm going with a 1:1 ratio, 4# sugar to 2 quarts (or more) of water, hoping to melt all the sugar crystals in the feeder. I used my hive tool to break up the crystals into small pieces hoping the warm, thin sugar water would/will melt the crystals.


why not just ad a little more water ? instead of going back to 1-1


----------



## bwdenen

Ok you math guys, I have about 7 gallons of 1:1 left over from the dearth we had mid-summer. How much sugar needed to make it 5:3. About 1/2 pound of sugar gallon of 1:1 close enough? I'm remembering that 1 gallon of water plus 8 pounds of surgar makes 1-1/2 gallon of syrup. Also, I added Honey B Healthy when I made the 1:1, do you all think it will harm the syrup to heat it just a touch to dissolve the extra sugar?


----------



## Hoosier

curios1 said:


> why not just ad a little more water ? instead of going back to 1-1


That's what I did when I changed to 1:1. 4# sugar to 2 quarts of water (not 1 1/4 quarts as for 5:3) when they needed to be fed again.


----------



## Hoosier

bwdenen said:


> Ok you math guys, I have about 7 gallons of 1:1 left over from the dearth we had mid-summer. How much sugar needed to make it 5:3. About 1/2 pound of sugar gallon of 1:1 close enough? I'm remembering that 1 gallon of water plus 8 pounds of surgar makes 1-1/2 gallon of syrup. Also, I added Honey B Healthy when I made the 1:1, do you all think it will harm the syrup to heat it just a touch to dissolve the extra sugar?


*This'd better not give me a headache!* 8# sugar to 4 quarts of water is 1:1 so: You have 7 gallon made from a 1:1 mix (8# sugar to 4 quarts of water that you claim produces 1 1/2 gallons of syrup. Therefore, 7 divided by 1 1/2 gives what you began with 7/1 X 2/3 = 14/3 = almost 5 groups of 8# of sugar = 40 # sugar and 20 quarts of water originally. 
40# of sugar for a 5:3 ratio would require 12 quarts of water, not 20; however, you want to know how much more sugar than the 40 pounds would be needed to match the 20 quarts of water; you've already used 40#. You would be exact by adding *another 30#* of sugar making 70# of sugar to *21 quarts* of water or very, very close with a total of 69 pounds *(another 29#)* of sugar for the 20 gallons of water. So add 29-30 pounds of sugar, and you'll have your 5:3 ratio. *You owe me a bottle of good gin.*


----------



## Ben Franklin

Hoosier said:


> *This'd better not give me a headache!* 8# sugar to 4 quarts of water is 1:1 so: You have 7 gallon made from a 1:1 mix (8# sugar to 4 quarts of water that you claim produces 1 1/2 gallons of syrup. Therefore, 7 divided by 1 1/2 gives what you began with 7/1 X 2/3 = 14/3 = almost 5 groups of 8# of sugar = 40 # sugar and 20 quarts of water originally.
> 40# of sugar for a 5:3 ratio would require 12 quarts of water, not 20; however, you want to know how much more sugar than the 40 pounds would be needed to match the 20 quarts of water; you've already used 40#. You would be exact by adding *another 30#* of sugar making 70# of sugar to *21 quarts* of water or very, very close with a total of 69 pounds *(another 29#)* of sugar for the 20 gallons of water. So add 29-30 pounds of sugar, and you'll have your 5:3 ratio. *You owe me a bottle of good gin.*


WOW Is this a riddle contest?????


----------



## Hoosier

Ben Franklin said:


> WOW Is this a riddle contest?????


No, but it might prove to be a good source of free drinks.


----------



## bwdenen

Took me a while to get my head around your forumula,. At first it didn't sound right but you nailed it. 
About that Gin...not one imbibe, maybe we can work something out.


----------



## Hoosier

bwdenen said:


> took me a while to get my head around your forumula,. At first it didn't sound right but you nailed it.
> About that gin...not one imbibe, maybe we can work something out.


sighhhhhhhhhhhhh!


----------

