# Cell Builders



## BerkeyDavid (Jan 29, 2004)

Chef, while I don't know, I would not think that is a good idea, for this reason.

I have been using a swarm box to start them, and the Spivak / Reuter book says to shake the swarm box 1 -2 hours before you graft AND to make sure there are no frames in the swarm box with eggs or brood.

Since there will still be eggs and brood in your cell builder they may not fully believe they are queenless. 

Therefore what I would do is set up a swarm box. just cage your queen Monday morning, move all the brood up above the bottom box, then return the queen to the bottom box below an excluder.

Come back in the afternoon, all the nurse bees will be above the excluder, you can quickly shake them into your swarm box, then graft. within an hour the swarm box will be roaring, begging for the grafts.

Then after 24 hours return the grafts and the nurse bees to the hive.

It is better to get your nurse bees from a different hive if you can. Even if you do that, move your open brood up above the excluder so the nurse bees are ready for the grafts.

I hope to do my second round of grafting next weekend. I have two hives set up to use for the nurse bees for the swarm box and my big boomer hive for the finisher. I treat all 3 hives the same, work them once a week to cut out the queen cells. You will see lots of queen cells if it is set up right.

I feel guilty cutting out all those queen cells, I wish I could figure out a way to use all that royal jelly. Looks good enough to eat!


----------



## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Chef Isaac said:


> I was wondering if I cant take the queen out on Monday morning and graft later in the day... if that would work. Any thoughts?


Well, that's what I do. But, I've prepared the colony 10 days before. I separate the brood and queen with a queen excluder. Sealed and queen goes in bottom brood box, while unsealed brood goes in top box over excluder. 10 days later, I graft. At that time, there is no open brood in top box, and all nurse bees are in bottom with queen. Top box becomes cell builder, and nurse bees are shaken out of bottom box into cell builder. Works for me, and I usually get 40-43 cells from 45 grafts.


----------



## peggjam (Mar 4, 2005)

I do that without any problems.


----------



## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

Peg: Do you mean take the queen out, graft a couple of hours later? Is there still eggs and brood in the hive you graft into?


----------



## peggjam (Mar 4, 2005)

Yes, only I wait about 4-6 hours after removing the queen. I don't worry too much about them making rouge queen cells, as they can be removed if needed.


----------



## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

I cant wait to graft!!!!!!


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I was wondering if I cant take the queen out on Monday morning and graft later in the day... if that would work. Any thoughts?

I usually remove the queen the night before, but two hours will do in a pinch.


----------



## stangardener (Mar 8, 2005)

peggjam said:


> Yes, only I wait about 4-6 hours after removing the queen. I don't worry too much about them making rouge queen cells, as they can be removed if needed.


i lost ten beautiful cells to one of those rouge queen cells yesterday. today i will be grafting instead of making up mating nucs. i'll also be trying to do a better job of checking from now on.


----------



## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Chef Isaac said:


> I was wondering if I cant take the queen out on Monday morning and graft later in the day... if that would work. Any thoughts?


Chef, I grafted today.emoved queen at 11. Nothing left but sealed and emerging brood and packed with young bees. I grafted at 5:30. The bees were frantic and roaring loudly.


----------



## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*one of those rouge queen cells*

Rogue queen cells are one problem.
Here is another problem:
In flight virgin queens that enter your cell builder as you are working it for future grafting. Yes, it happens every once in a while!
Also, my Carniolan queens drift into my Cordovan yard and the Cordovans drift into the Carniolan yard..
If you are using a Cloake Board for grafting you will have those virgin queens enter them and cause havoc.
Just keep trying and you will perfect your method,s, of cell production.
PS When a BTO talks to me for 1/2-1 hour I know what he is going to ask me. The answer is no. I will not teach you how to graft queen cells! You can buy them with 100% of the $$$ up front.

Regards,
Ernie Lucas Apiaries


----------



## dewbeehoney (Jan 29, 2008)

*Guilty Myself*

I too in a pinch have revoved a queen and grafted into that same hive later in the day. Yes rogue queen cells have to be removed, and I mean all of them. Especially the ones you didn't see.

Once in a while you miss one of those rogue cells and loose all your grafts.

I just keep learning lessons the hard way but I am getting better. Currently I am working two cell builders and pumping them queens out. Three weeks ago I was looking at a bunch of torn down queen cells. 

That is how it goes. You win some, you loose some.


----------

