# Nsqba



## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

www.nsqba.com

I have taken it upon myself to start an association for northern breeders. I am seeking people who want to help, and can make this happen. I'm just getting the ball rolling, and will need help pushing it as it gets bigger.

You can contact me in private to voice comments and suggestions, if you choose.

Thank you.


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## Robert Hawkins (May 27, 2005)

So, ya gonna use the Mason-Dixon line? If not how far North is North? This is mainly for queens right? Ya gonna breed for any traits in particular?

Hawk


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Hawk, Good questions.

I honestly feel uncomfortable drawing a line in the sand at one place or another. Although it will be needed. If I look at the country map, and draw a line as somewhat seen at the bottom of Pennsylvania, then the same line can be connected or continued across the country. It needs to be based on consideration for over-wintering hardiness of the bees, not influenced by possible AHB's areas (now and in the future), and other factors.

I would like to draw a line, then hear any consideration for exceptions, based on individual circumstances. 

At the moment, I have spoke to several beekeepers behind the scenes, and will wait for a response and input as it becomes available.

Yes, its for queen breeders.

My own traits are along the lines of not treating for 5 years and using a base stock of russian, carni and some collected ferals. I don't believe there should be requirements on such matters for membership. If it takes a little effort in matching desired stock between members for the queen swap, thats something to consider. At the moment, promoting basic understanding and building a pool of breeders with northern stock, uninfluenced by AHB's, and based on breeders selecting for such things as winter hardy, hygienic, and other traits is the first step.

As a breeder, I think much is local or regional in the thought process of what a breeding group should be. But would I find genetics from a good breeder in Montana worthwhile to add to my breeding stock? I would think so. As long as the basic requirements are being met from what the association is intended. Thats why I went with a large area "northern states" instead of limiting it to a region or a few states.

Hope this helps.


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## Jack Grimshaw (Feb 10, 2001)

Is Pa in NE

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214547&highlight=Mike+Palmer

Anyway Larry Conner would be a good contact.


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## Focus on Bees (Mar 6, 2006)

for an idea why don't you use the planting zones, say, everybody in zone 4 or zone 5 or less? that way you wouldn't be "discriminating" to anyone and still get your achieved results with what you're trying to do. ??


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## WG Bee Farm (Jan 29, 2005)

There "might" be a few good breeders south of Pa.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Focus on Bees said:


> for an idea why don't you use the planting zones, say, everybody in zone 4 or zone 5 or less? that way you wouldn't be "discriminating" to anyone and still get your achieved results with what you're trying to do. ??


Focus,
Thank you. I thought about the zoning map also. But one really only needs to look at it, and huge problems exist right from the start. As example, zone 5 and 6 covers much of Pennsylvania, New York and extends all the way to Maine. But it also extends to include Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, among others. So this would not work.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

WG Bee Farm said:


> There "might" be a few good breeders south of Pa.


I know there are.  And perhaps one day, those same breeders will purchase from a northern pool of genetics, so as to fend off potential problems with AHB's, or something else. Thats the great thing about breeding programs, many people benefit in many different ways.


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## WG Bee Farm (Jan 29, 2005)

California- NW Carnies- Sue Cobey, 
There is a Russian Breeders Assoc. trying to start from the south.
California Queen Breeders Assoc.
Minnesota Hyg. Italians- did you want Italians included.
Not all areas of the "South" have AHB & some areas have "rough" winters also.
Bee careful that you don't exclude queens that could improve your breeding stock.
Interesting no? 

Florida Apairy Service has the "best" protocol on their certification system that I have seen to date. I think you would benefit by contacting them and designing your Associations protocols around their system. (Florida is that south)
It would also benefit any specific queen rearer in controlling drone pools.
There is also good information out of Austrailia/NSW on drone flooding and quantity of drone mothers per 100 queens produced.
I can see benefits from a well organized and run association. 
Good luck 
Frank


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## adamf (Jan 28, 2006)

BjornBee said:


> Hawk, Good questions.
> 
> I honestly feel uncomfortable drawing a line in the sand at one place or another. Although it will be needed. If I look at the country map, and draw a line as somewhat seen at the bottom of Pennsylvania, then the same line can be connected or continued across the country. It needs to be based on consideration for over-wintering hardiness of the bees, not influenced by possible AHB's areas (now and in the future), and other factors.


May I suggest that you base your region on the SARE definition of the North East?

http://www.uvm.edu/~nesare/what_is.html

If this proposed organization was set-up as a non-profit entity, it would be eligible to apply for SARE grants.

(You'd be adding in Maryland, and West Virginia, Don't think anyone is selecting queens in Washington, D.C.).

Something to think about.

Adam Finkelstein


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Thank you WG and Adam,
I have looked at many breeding associations. Some are rather large with grant money and full-time employees running the show as with the Ontario group, while others have certificate programs, annual meetings, and protocol.

And although what this grows into is unknown, for the near future I see a more low key approach. I don't see the need from the start to talk about annual meetings, costs factors for breeders such as traveling, membership fees, and certificate programs.

I have spoke to people like Dennis V for years now. And at one time, he contacted breeders in Pa. to start an association, and no interest could be found worth getting excited about. I have heard talk about other associations being formed, and year after year passes, with nothing coming forward.

I'm hoping to have a number of breeders, for a simple queen swap the first year. For breeders that are serious about diversifying their stock, and understand such things as hybrid vigor, alleles, and other genetics selection items. This may include smaller operations (some who may not have the opportunity to travel and pay for such things as annual meetings), as well as large ones. But I think if a core of 20 to 25 breeders take part in an annual queen swap to start, and it goes from there, and grows into what the membership feels as beneficial to include meetings, protocol, and certificates, then that will be decided by the participants.

Larger operations such as those who bring in breeder stock from the same places every year, treat with standard chemicals, produce quantity over quality, etc., may not be what is best for queen swap programs anyways. Smaller breeders and sideliners who are up and coming, who are non-treating, trying natural methods, and have the time to select traits that include wintering, etc., might be best. But thats just my opinion. These smaller and medium operations are the same who may or may not see annual meetings as doable(is that a word). Certainly nobody is excluded on size. And I don't want those barriers put up that may make participation hard for membership. Certainly in building an association with quality in mind, and what would be known to customers as a source for the best queens, may need some of those factors such as protocol, certificates, etc. I just don't see the need for that in step one. 

Any breeder can take classes such as Colby's. I'm not suggesting that this association needs to start with such classes and protocol. I don't have the time, money or desire to take on those tasks. (I'm willing to have help, etc. ) But I am tired of sitting around waiting for something to happen. So I feel the first step is to find and organize a core group of serious breeders that can work together to move in the right direction as better breeders, share information, and benefit from each other. 

That's step one. Steps two through 101 can come later.
Thank you. I appreciate the input.


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

adamf writes:
(You'd be adding in Maryland, and West Virginia, Don't think anyone is selecting queens in Washington, D.C.).

tecumseh writes:
there them darn yankees go tryin' to steal a couple of our states again... thievin' scondrals.

last time I check both Maryland and West Virginia (West 'by god' Virginia to us hillbilly types) were south of the mason dixon line.


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## fat/beeman (Aug 23, 2002)

*tradeing stock*

I would be interested in tradeing some stock if queens were raised with no chem's. I have spent lot of time keeping the lines I got clean.
Don


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

i'm definitely interested. i'm not terribly interested in "pure lines" and such, just open mating, and breeding for survival/productivity without treatements...and in northern queenbreeding/nuc production.

deknow


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## fat/beeman (Aug 23, 2002)

*queens*

I have a web page you might check out if interested.
www.geocities.com/fatbeeman


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

fat/beeman said:


> I would be interested in tradeing some stock if queens were raised with no chem's. I have spent lot of time keeping the lines I got clean.
> Don



Don, I (myself) am always willing, regardless of interests in NSQBA, to test, monitor, and evaluate stock from various places and by different breeders. Your reputation and efforts are certainly in my opinion well above the norm in beekeeping.

I (and hopefully a bunch of "we")hope one day, to have the NSQBA at a point where many breeders, and individuals, even if they are not part of the association, can come to rely on the quality and guidelines that the association offers. (The queen exchange program is the first and most direct step in helping members from day one, but will no doubt grow with seen benefits beyond that.). And certainly, anyone can have access to the membership lists once it will be posted, and have the ability to contact breeders of their choice.


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## NorthALABeeKeep (Nov 10, 2004)

*North Alabama too far?? *

Good luck on your endeavor.


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## WVbeekeeper (Jun 4, 2007)

tecumseh said:


> adamf writes:
> (You'd be adding in Maryland, and West Virginia, Don't think anyone is selecting queens in Washington, D.C.).
> 
> tecumseh writes:
> ...


Last time I checked WV separated from the south and Virginia on June 20, 
1863 to join the north. I guess Mike won't have a choice but to let us in. 
Although Maryland was south of the Mason-Dixon line it was also a member of
the Union. Sorry Tecumseh, but these two states can't be stolen from the 
South because they were never part of it and fought against it.


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## dewbeehoney (Jan 29, 2008)

*Very Interested*

I got an e-mail about this and was very interested from the start.
I am an OSBA Queen Project coordinator and would love to be a part of this project. 

Keep me in mind


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## mudlake (Nov 26, 2007)

I think the idea is great. Don't make it complicated. The best saying I ever heard was KISS. I live in an area that works best. I am going with [email protected] for the reasons that have been stated. Good info at [email protected] I hope this works Tony


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## peggjam (Mar 4, 2005)

I would be interested, as long as everyone gets along, and works for the benefit of the honeybee. I guess the first thing to do is set up some sort of protocol that would put everyone on the same page.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

peggjam said:


> I would be interested, as long as everyone gets along, and works for the benefit of the honeybee. I guess the first thing to do is set up some sort of protocol that would put everyone on the same page.



I can't speak of others, but as too myself,...I'm one of the easiest going, laid back, nice guys you ever wanted to meet. 

I'll send you information in the mail. If you have any questions, please let me know. I'm trying to keep the discussion on-line as information based and for spreading the association ideas. And maybe not really geared toward protocol or internal discussions that are on-going with members.

Thank you.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Just wanted to say thank you to all the help people have offered both publicly and privately.

The website has recently been updated and will continue to evolve as the membership and association grows. I wanted to get the first initial membership list out as soon as possible and update the site a bit. (I know...it has a few bugs that are being worked out  )

I want to acknowledge those who have spent time coordinating and making an effort hashing out the details and choosing a path to pursue. Thank you.


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## pennstatepitt (Mar 13, 2006)

Hey bjorn,
I don't know if you remember me, but I bought some nucs from you a couple years ago. I'm interested in this group and would maybe like to swap a few queens. I'm in college now, so I'm not going to be making huge numbers of queens, but swaping a few for diversity sounds like a great idea. I have a fairly good understanding of genetics(studying Plant genetics, but the principals are the same). What would I need to do to enter, and when are you planning the swap for?
Thanks,
Josh

PS: Are you a member of the seed savers exchange? They do the same type of thing as the queen swap, but with vegetable seeds instead. Either way it's a great idea.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

pennstatepitt,
Thank you for the dialog, understanding and conversations off thread.

I do not belong to the seed savers exchange. But would love to try some old heirloom seeds. Is there a website and can you buy/acquire without having seeds to exchange?


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## pennstatepitt (Mar 13, 2006)

Whoops, didn't see this! 
Yes, you can buy seeds at: www.seedsavers.org
I think you have to have a membership though. Some pretty cool vegetables on there!


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

NSQBA members are wrapping up the first queen exchange for the association. I look forward to overwintering queens from several NSQBA members, a couple who are also Beesource members. It will be interesting to get some confidential feedback from other like-minded breeders from the north.

I have been contacted by several beesource members that who are just getting involved in queen rearing. Thank you for your interest, and it will be interesting to work with additional members as more and more serious breeders are established in the North.


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