# Veils / Black Mesh



## Jared.Downs (Jun 28, 2013)

Figured I'd ask around about the thoughts and opinions on veils that people own.

I just started keeping two hives this year with my dad. He went out a purchased a veil.

When I used it the first time, I found it to be rather limiting in terms of my vision (my eyes are 20/20) but the mesh only a few inches from my eyes really throws everything off for me.

Does any one else have problems with vision with their veils? Please post all complaints as I'd love to work on a solution for better vision / ventilation. 

Thanks


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Of course the mesh impairs vision. But the choices don't go much beyond mesh or some form of clear plastic/glass. And condensation/fogging is a problem with plastic/glass.


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## Tom B (May 11, 2011)

Don't worry, you will get used to having the veil over your head. Eventually, it will be the least of your concerns as the weather gets warm and your start having to lift full supers of honey with sweat running into your eyes and your glasses sliding down your nose and you inadvertently trap a bee between your finger and the handle of the box (ouch!). Then you will smile and say "I love beekeeping!"


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## Aucoop94 (May 5, 2013)

When my father-in-law went out and "purchased a veil" he got me one too, and I experienced the same thing. As it turns out he got a mosquito veil which has very small netting. An actual bee veil has a much larger mesh pattern and was MUCH easier to see through.

Make sure you have the right veil for the job, it makes all the difference in the world.


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## Jared.Downs (Jun 28, 2013)

@Radar Sidetrack -

My initial thoughts were about a "veil" that had a clear visor make of plastic. I think I'm going to play around with this a little bit (start mocking up some prototypes) because I feel like there has to be away to create proper ventilation to prevent condensation / fogging, but I could be wrong here. If a veil with a lens existed and it did not fog, would that be of interest to you (or any other beek's?).


@Tom B- 

I've been using the veil the past two months and have gotten use to it in regards to visibility. My major thought / concern was when trying to look for mites or eggs. The fine details are rather hard to see. And trust me I'm definitely enjoying beekeeping so far; I'm learning 1-3 new things each time I interact and observe the bees.

Do you get sun burned at all with your veil on? UV protection might be something for the veils?


@ Aucoop94-

Thanks for the insights into your experience with mosquito nets vs veils. How was the ventilation with the mosquito net?


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## Aucoop94 (May 5, 2013)

> Thanks for the insights into your experience with mosquito nets vs veils. How was the ventilation with the mosquito net?


Honestly, I didn't know any better at first until I bought my suit, that's when it became obvious. The mosquito net makes everything darker and the ventilation is not as good. The main thing for me though was the visibility because it made it harder to find the queen or eggs.


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## mppatriots (Jun 11, 2013)

I only notice the mesh for the first few seconds of putting the veil on. After that, it is like it isn't even there. Only thing that gets me is how well the jacket i have holds heat.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Jared.Downs said:


> @Radar Sidetrack -
> 
> My initial thoughts were about a "veil" that had a clear visor make of plastic. I think I'm going to play around with this a little bit (start mocking up some prototypes) because I feel like there has to be away to create proper ventilation to prevent condensation / fogging, but I could be wrong here. If a veil with a lens existed and it did not fog, would that be of interest to you (or any other beek's?).


Welcome to beesource. Bees be w/ you.


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## Aucoop94 (May 5, 2013)

sqkcrk said:


> What is it about Beekeeping that attracts people who feel they need to fix something which has been standard operating equipment for hundreds of years? Especiall those who have only been into beekeeping for such a short time? Do people really think others haven't thought of this before and found it lacking?
> 
> Is it beekeeping? Or does this happen in other professions too?
> 
> Welcome to beesource.


@sqkcrk

I see you edited your original response this morning after sleeping on it over night. I guess you decided it was a little harsh. Not sure the edited version is much better.

Sqkcrk, I've read a lot of your posts and I've found your suggestions quite helpful but, sheesh! He's just excited about beekeeping and he's been a member of the forum for a month; not sure that's the welcome I'd want.

I too am a new beek and as equally excited, but I guess us newbies need to be careful what we ask or post on the forum for fear that we may get reprimanded by some "old timers" that think nothing new can be invented or old can be modified.

As for me, if Jared.Downs invents an air-conditioned bee suit I might be the first to purchase...It's fricken' hot during the summers here in Alabama.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

I, too, have trouble seeing through the standard bee veil. It is only a problem when looking for eggs, but then it is a big annoyance during a critical operation. For everything but egg searching, the standard mesh is fine.

I have wondered about a veil with a mesh with larger, but still-bee-proof holes. It seems the standard mesh is much finer than it needs to be. Bigger holes would mean better fine detail resolution and better ventilation.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Aucoop94 said:


> @sqkcrk
> 
> I see you edited your original response this morning after sleeping on it over night. I guess you decided it was a little harsh. Not sure the edited version is much better.
> 
> Sqkcrk, I've read a lot of your posts and I've found your suggestions quite helpful but, sheesh! He's just excited about beekeeping and he's been a member of the forum for a month; not sure that's the welcome I'd want.


Quite right on all counts.

Jared, the fellow who perfected the ultrabreeze suit may have some insights which would be of benefit to you and your efforts.

May bees be yours.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

shinbone said:


> I, too, have trouble seeing through the standard bee veil. It is only a problem when looking for eggs, but then it is a big annoyance during a critical operation. For everything but egg searching, the standard mesh is fine.
> 
> I have wondered about a veil with a mesh with larger, but still-bee-proof holes. It seems the standard mesh is much finer than it needs to be. Bigger holes would mean better fine detail resolution and better ventilation.


Stop looking for eggs. First day Larvae are much easier to see. So are cells w/ brood food in them next to empty cells. It tells you almost the same thing. A queen is present and laying.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Aucoop94 said:


> @sqkcrk
> 
> I see you edited your original response this morning after sleeping on it over night. I guess you decided it was a little harsh. Not sure the edited version is much better.


Yeah, I can be cranky can't I? Could someone invent an airconditioning system for my house which I could afford? This bowl of ice and fan just aren't cutting it.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

sqkcrk - thanks for the suggestion!

Not to get too far OT, here, but how does _" . . . cells w/ brood food in them next to empty cells_" signify a laying queen?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

There's a larvae in that white goop which may be hard to see. Three days ago that was a newly laid egg. I've never seen cells w/ brood food in them w/out a larvae in it.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

sqkcrk - Okay. Thanks.

BTW, does anyone know why the apparently finer-than-necessary mesh was settled upon as the standard for bee veils? A coarser mesh would still keep out bees, but allow for better visibility and better air flow on a hot day.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> Could someone invent an airconditioning system for my house which I could afford? This bowl of ice and fan just aren't cutting it.


Here you go ....








$12 is fairly affordable ....
http://www.walmart.com/ip/My-Sunshine-6-Snap-Set-Pool/19336121


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## D Semple (Jun 18, 2010)

sqkcrk said:


> What is it about Beekeeping that attracts people who feel they need to fix something which has been standard operating equipment for hundreds of years? Especiall those who have only been into beekeeping for such a short time? Do people really think others haven't thought of this before and found it lacking?
> 
> Is it beekeeping? Or does this happen in other professions too?
> 
> Welcome to beesource.


You're one of my favorite posters Mark, but I have to wonder why you would even care about anybody else's equipment?

I hope some egg head comes up with a better vale, I have terrible vision and would love to be able to find queens and see small larva. 

Don


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

shinbone said:


> sqkcrk - Okay. Thanks.
> 
> BTW, does anyone know why the apparently finer-than-necessary mesh was settled upon as the standard for bee veils? A coarser mesh would still keep out bees, but allow for better visibility and better air flow on a hot day.


Wouldn't wider mesh be more flimsy? Less structural integrity? More susceptible to damage? I wondered the same thing myself.


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## Jared.Downs (Jun 28, 2013)

Was at work all day and not able to respond. Didn't think I was going to ruffle any feathers with this thread.



Aucoop94 said:


> The main thing for me though was the visibility because it made it harder to find the queen or eggs.


@Aucoop94- Your comments match my initial reasoning for posting. Thanks for your feedback!

@ mppatriots- The only time I really have a problem with it is the first few minutes and then as others have said you get use to it. 

Part of what sparked this thread was that my dad has bifocals or trifocals maybe? But either way, his eyesight isn’t even poor. It’s terrible. And I’m guessing he’s not the only person that has poor eyesight that puts on a veil when beekeeping. 

Combine the glasses and a veil and he must have a real hard time. (I don’t know how others with glasses fare or what they experience, because I don’t wear glasses but I would think that they have a difficult time).

@sqkcrk- I noticed you’ve edited your post multiple times. I didn’t get a chance to see the first version (I’d love to see it, because there is value in understanding where you’re coming from and your frustration).

So maybe one thing I failed to do in the OP was give everyone a little background info on myself. See the following:

1)Yes, I’m really new to bee keeping. (Started my two hives on May 15th)

2)I’ve made lots of mistakes but have been reading as many books and talking to as many experienced bee keepers as I can. 

3)My professional background is in product design; I’m an industrial designer that has a wide range of interests.

4)I’m 24 years old, and have worked for a number of companies designing everything from gloves for outdoor companies, toys at Hasbro for Star Wars, firefighting equipment, jewelry, medical equipment, surgical tools, etc. I could go on and on. But one thing I’m not is an expert in any of those product categories. So anytime I know nothing about a product category, I do everything I can to learn about it and the nuances that are involved with it. This way the person that uses the product I worked on is able to have a positive experience.

5)I got into bee keeping because I wanted to keep bees. Then as I was looking around for equipment. I noticed everything is either made at home (I’ve made all my hives and will continue too), or does not look as those it’s changed much over the years (of course there are newer products but my statement is towards the bulk of existing products). So if I can make a small contribution and a few people out there can benefit from some of my work; all the better.

6)And sometimes, having no prior experience with something like bee keeping can lead to some great discoveries, because I don’t have 20 plus years of training that has lead me to think a certain way. Being new to it, I have an incredibly open mind (not that others don’t) but I’m learning and have questions about everything. And sometimes I look at stuff and ask why the heck a product is the way it is, i.e. the veil. 

7)You might hate me, because I’ve got a list of products I could design for bee keeping. They’re in my idea book. But I’ll save those for another day once I can show everyone that I’m not a crazy person trying to change bee keeping, just improve certain select aspects of it with functional improvements.


Wider mesh can be stronger, it all depends on the weave and if the mesh is coated. But if the openings in the mesh get a little bigger, generally the mesh becomes thicker to compensate for the strength because stronger weaves, materials or coatings are more money. 

But if you can list the things you like and dislike, then I can work with you to make something that everyone here would appreciate and find useful.

I’m not looking to get rich, just looking to find a way to do something that might be useful.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Looks like if anyone can do this it's probably you.

I flip my veil back, pull my glasses down and squint w/ my right eye looking in cells w/ the Sunlight coming over my shoulder. I have trouble seeing whether that cell or those cells are actually empty or occupied by an egg or not because of the shininess of the bottom of a newly polished cell. 

That's why I look for young larvae and not eggs. Eggs are too hard for old eyes to see. After cataract surgery I'll have to carry reading glasses to wear under my veil.


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## Jared.Downs (Jun 28, 2013)

sqkcrk said:


> I flip my veil back, pull my glasses down and squint w/ my right eye looking in cells w/ the Sunlight coming over my shoulder. I


@sqkcrk- 

This is exactly the type of stuff that I'm looking for and incredibly insightful, thank you. 

Could you expand on this more? Can you explain what you mean by flipping your veil back? Removing it? Do you walk away from the hive with the frame to look at it? Or do you do this near the hive?

Keep it coming, please. Thanks!

Once I'm at a point where I've gotten enough feedback, I'm going to start sketching up each idea and then mocking up veil on the sewing machine / in my shop.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

When I do this there may be 100 plus hives in the yard, so there is really no walking away. I have hooded jackets which zip closed together at the throat under my chin. I don't actually unzip and throw it back over my shoulders as much as open up just enough to raise the veil high enough to pull it up onto my forehead. Exposing most of my face I guess but not my whole head.

Yes, right above the hive.


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## Jared.Downs (Jun 28, 2013)

@sqkcrk-

Thanks for the added explanation. How many yards / hives do you have total? Any idea the number of hours a weak you spend working your bees?

I think my list for features / areas of the veil to look at might be something like this:

(Anyone that wants to, please comment on this)

-Increasing visibility
-Ability to open mesh or "visor" to look at comb close up
-Increasing ventilation
-Providing UV protection
-Able to use eyewear with veil (eye glasses or sunglasses)
-Easy to remove / put on
-Keeps bees out (of course)



Does anyone have comments about...

Storage of their veils?

How long they last / wear and tear? (Weak areas)

Issues with keeping bees out?

Variety of head sizes? (i.e. fit)

Anything else?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Jared you can call me Mark. That's my first name. sqkcrk is okay too. Just thought you'd like to know.

I have at this time about 550 hives. I'm doing what needs doing in all aspects of beekeeping when it needs doing. I never count the hours. They are numerous for sure. More some times of the year than others. 

Drove twohundred miles today delivering honey. Didn't get into any hives. Gonna go out tomorrow and add supers to a cpl of yds and deliver some honey tomorrow afternoon. Doing the hot work when it's the coolest and the light work when it's the hottest.

Going for jars on wednesday 250 miles away and then starting to take off honey next week sometime depending on variables. Starting at one end of my line of 14 apiaries until I have enough to take to extract. It's an ongoing process. Don't have my own extracting plant.


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## Aucoop94 (May 5, 2013)

Well, now that we're all friends...

Jared, how about something that can be pulled down in front of the veil for magnification, sorta like a magnifying glass on a swing arm.

Mark, I can appreciate your vision issues, my father-in-law has them as well: macular degeneration, had cataract surgery and now a detached retina. If Jared could come up with something that attached to the top of your hat or veil that was sturdy, that might be pretty useful. He has basically quit working bees because of his vision (this is how I got involved in beekeeping). Call it an early inheritance.

Regarding your apiaries: do you own them all (the land that is) or are you placing your hives on other people's farms and such? I'm eventually going to run out of room where I'm at and I'm just curious how someone with that many hives handles expanding without owning a bunch of property? Thanks.


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## Gino45 (Apr 6, 2012)

wELL, GUYS......................

I've always preferred a folding veil, and the new plastic mesh ones are a big improvement over the old wire mesh type.

I think the vision issues can be solved by holding the comb so it catches the sunlight, plus, if needed glasses. I wear 2.25 power myself when doing close bee work. El cheapo plastic ones. But it's all about having good light conditions, IMO.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Aucoop94 said:


> Regarding your apiaries: do you own them all (the land that is) or are you placing your hives on other people's farms and such? I'm eventually going to run out of room where I'm at and I'm just curious how someone with that many hives handles expanding without owning a bunch of property? Thanks.


They're on someone elses land. I rent the location for some honey payment at the end of the year.


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## Jared.Downs (Jun 28, 2013)

@Mark - 
Thank you for all your great feedback. When I design products the most fun isn't in the designing, it's in the discovery / research phase. Talking with the expert is awesome because it opens me up to whole different approaches.

It was great how you gave us a mini layout of the next few days and what you do. Gives me a full appreciation and a good idea of what you might go through each day.


@Aucoop94-
I like the idea of incorporating some sort of lens for magnification. This thread is giving me lots of insights that will be great for sketching on. Lately I've been swamped with work. I work a full time job and then moonlight when there is extra work. So personal projects don't happen as often as I'd like. But in the past month I've spent a pretty penny on a bunch of wood working equipment. So I'm making it a point to design / make a product as often as I can.


@Gino45-
It's great hearing about the different approaches. Thanks for your comments because they made me realize that I've got some research to do, looking at older veils from the past. 


General question to those that do this every day-

What is your water intake like? And does the veil make it a pain to drink water or do you take infrequent breaks?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I drink thru the veil, or I lift it up to drink.


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## challenger (May 27, 2009)

Just some of my own observations:
I despise bee suits & veils but when I HAVE to wear a veil I use an Army surplus mosquito veil. They are about $3.00 and although the mesh is fine it is green which somehow makes the distraction. They are extremely light & collapse/ fold easily. Did I mention they are only $3.00?
When I HAVE to wear a suit I use one with this veil or another separate unattached veil.
I wear reading glasses which are just awful inside a veil so I've recently started wearing a single contact lens for bee work & I've liked this so much that I wear it most days all day - I highly doubt a reading lens incorporated into a veil has any legs.
I've been keeping for less than ten years so I'm no expert but I feel confident in saying beekeeping DOES attract a certain personality type. New beekeepers seem to know everything within 2 years (usually less). These folk can transform beekeeping into a care free hobby with their supererior brains. Some can even keep bees in cities with a fraction of foraging plants that it normally takes to make a honey crop. I feel these are dumpster bees making corn syrup honey but they have their heads nuzzling their roof top hives and must have a real & personal relationship with, "their girls". It is tot BS but the bee magazines feel the warm & fuzzy this generates sells magazines.
I've also determined beekeeping is full of old timers that have zero tolerance for new ideas. Their way is the best & only way.
Check out AceBird's posts/replies.
I am a big tinkerer & have a lot of ideas bout improving on how I keep bees and I am very open to new ideas.
I am currently working on a SHB trap and have made a frame filling machine that you can loom at on this forum & YouTube.


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## Jared.Downs (Jun 28, 2013)

@Mark-

Thanks for your comments on how you drink. Right now I'm just trying to get a full picture for all aspects of beekeeping. Especially since you do this every day it's all the more valuable hearing it.

...I'd love to do it all day every day, I'd do anything to not be in an office.


@challenger-

Thanks for your response! A $3.00 veil is mighty attractive because of the low price point. How do they hold up?

Incorporating reading lens might not be something that is a marketable product due to the a variety of factors. But I still love the brainstorming that is happening. All ideas are great, because they'll help lead me to different ideas that I can test and either prove or disprove.

If I could master this in 2 years that would be awesome....but I know I can't do that even in my lifetime. 

Per you comments about there being lots of "old timers" --
I think a lot of professions, hobbies, activities, etc can often have people that want to slow the rate at with it evolves and progresses. And I can fully respect and appreciate that. There are plenty of things I'd love to see go back to "the way they use to be" to help connect people and give them a deeper understanding of what they're doing. But at the same time, I enjoy seeing certain things progress. I design medical equipment that is electronics heavy but I spent many moments through out the my day wishing I was on a farm some where raising cattle or anything farming related (I'm not a farmer, but it'd be nice to have a "simpler" life that was full of hard worthwhile work). But talking about "change" could be a lengthy topic in and of its self.

@challenger- do you have a link to your youtube video? Would love to see what you've come up with.


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## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

Jared.Downs said:


> -snip-
> When I used it the first time, I found it to be rather limiting in terms of my vision (my eyes are 20/20) but the mesh only a few inches from my eyes really throws everything off for me.
> 
> Does any one else have problems with vision with their veils? -snip-
> Thanks


My experience as well Jared. :-/
I suspect a little bit of personality is involved in the (in)tolerance for obvious poor design and the resulting poor vision with the veils/hoods with small mesh. 



shinbone said:


> -snip
> BTW, does anyone know why the apparently finer-than-necessary mesh was settled upon as the standard for bee veils? A coarser mesh would still keep out bees, but allow for better visibility and better air flow on a hot day.




Something the old timers know already is that there are two meshes available in bee veils......been that way for a very long time. Take the Square Folding Veil by Mann Lake and by most of the bee supply houses - It has ten mesh, a _noticeable_ improvement from the mosquito netting sold to beekeepers.


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

My tule veil has a lot bigger mesh than my jacket .. oh and the poster that wanted cheap air oconditioning that works burry a 24 in tile about 10 ft in the ground for about 100 foot and make it surface into a candycane shape so the opening faces down to prevent rain from entering and attach the other end to floor vents in your house then put a chimney painted black on your roof that opens up to the living space inside as the chimney heats up in the sun it causes a draft and pulls air through the pipe below ground and fills your home with apx 63 deg air this is one of the ways wealthy Romans kept cool


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

As far as encorporating a lens and worrying about fog, a little trick I Learned at work that we do to our safety goggles that are notorious for fogging. Even the anti fog ones ...... What we do is rub some cheap dry white bar soap one with no moisturizers or additatives. Onto the inside of our lenses and then polish with a dry cloth u.till they no longer looked soaped and turn clear works like a charm


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## challenger (May 27, 2009)

Jared-the surplus veils IMO are great. They are super light & last a long time. I've never been stung through one. The drawback is the fine mess. I feel I got accustomed to it easily & maybe the green color helps. YMMV.
Just go to Howardtoob or search frame filling machine. It is a simple design based on a utility tub sink, 3/4 HP motor with rpm reduced down to about 500 rpm using pulley reduction and a pillow block bearing for shaft/ flex coupling support. It was a lot of trial & error. I am not an engineer & have no formal education. I am also not the sharpest knife in the drawer from an IQ standpoint. I have very limited ability to learn through schooling. A lot of people tell me how smart I am but I know the truth & always explain that I can learn things quickly IF I am very interested in the subject matter. I'd love to have been able to get an engineering degree but, as I said, the classroom environment and I don't mesh. I have a mechanical mind and I've been fortunate to learn to not give up when I fail many times I take project too far before realizing a project isn't practical / viable. This is a big character flaw but I'm getting better at checking myself when my OCD is putting me in the squirrel cage.
I know education gets you far but practical application is always the required step in any design. Having some education that allows oneto solve formulas would sure be nice & would certainly save a lot of time & money as opposed to my seat of the pants approach.
You have a great background and a passion for this hobby which can make your ideas and design more fulfilling than the average hack like myself.
Keep up the energy & I suspect we will see some things from your efforts that is new & valuable


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## Gino45 (Apr 6, 2012)

As the old saying goes, "the pasture is always greener on the other side of the fence."

The modern reality is that it's very difficult to make a living in agriculture today. That office job probably pays better, provides you with health insurance, and leaves you with time and energy to do what you enjoy with your days off. "A farmer's work is never done" is another old saying that is true for me.

There are different types of intelligence. Mechanics takes a kind of intelligence that many who are 'school smart' don't possess. So, in some ways, you are more intelligent than many college grads.


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## CajunBee (May 15, 2013)

Call me crazy, but I wear a wide-brimed straw hat with a mesh laundry bag as a veil. Large enough holes to see thru and already has a draw string. Hand-held magnifier to see eggs.


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## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

CajunBee said:


> Call me crazy, but I wear a wide-brimed straw hat with a mesh laundry bag as a veil. Large enough holes to see thru and already has a draw string. Hand-held magnifier to see eggs.


I'd like to see a picture of that.


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## challenger (May 27, 2009)

CajunBee said:


> Call me crazy, but I
> wear a wide-brimed straw hat with a mesh laundry bag as a veil. Large enough holes to see thru and already has a draw string. Hand-held magnifier to see eggs.


Hey! You're crazy!
I figured I'd oblige.
I have one of these sitting in my shop & I've meant to try it which I will now thanks to your post. I was concerned bee might get tangled up in the fabric but I imagine if this was a problem you wouldn't have used it. Is it possibility too much material?
I highly recommend to anyone that needs only reading glasses to give the single contact lens a try. Slipping, sweaty glasses make me nuts and the sweat dripping on the lenses as well.
Another great find I came across lately is something called the, sweat gutter. It is a silicone band that has a U shape area over the forehead. Sweat runs into this channel and drips out in front of the ears. I just came across thus while looking at a way to keep sweat out of my eyes playing tennis. So far I feel it is a major help. It's not perfect if one has to bend over to grab something-sweat will run over the top. For me I'd say it is a 90% improvement. Maybe I'll need to do more testing when it gets hotter. Right now it is a balmy 175* & 99.999999 % humidity for the last week or two. Not really full tilt test conditions
.
This is the first year the heat has gotten the best of me. I normally get acclimated by having to work in the heat for hours a day. I did the same thus year but must have over done it for too long & ended up feeling like I just ate a quart of SHB slime for about two weeks. All better now though & I'll take the heat any day over cold temps


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## Jared.Downs (Jun 28, 2013)

@harley craig - 

Thanks for the anti fogging soap tip, I will have to give that a try. My coworker loved it too.


@challenger-

I watched the video and your setup looked awesome. But being that I'm so new to this, what was the need for the machine? Are you washing the comb? Treating it? Prepping it for long term storage? 

Oh and don't worry about education, my coworker that is a mechanical engineer talked with me about how his education was focus on metals while 95% of what we do deals with plastics so he said he uses a small portion of his college education. A lot of creating products or machine like you've done is all about trial and error and then figuring out how to improve it. I love your approach though.

Oh and it was 99 here today, I'll take the cold any day (from New Hampshire).


@gino45-

Yeah the grass might be greener. I definitely think it would be incredibly tough / lots of hard work to make a living in agriculture. The big pit fall to what I do is that I've worked on a number of products the last few years a if I'm lucky 1 or 2 will become real products, due to a variety of reasons. I still get paid, but the personal satisfaction in knowing my work and effort paid off isn't there. 

The intelligence comments are interesting. It's hard to find a person that has the ability to learn from books and the hands on approach. But I'm a fan of being hands on since you get a feel from the true application. But since I'm new to beekeeping I can say I've had my head in a book the past few months quite a bit.


@cajunbee-

If you could post a picture, that would be awesome to see the setup you use.


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

I don't like the plastic veil on my Ultrabreeze jacket, or the plastic veil on my pigeon mountain full suit - they are not durable and tear easily. On the days I have to dig deep I wear the pigeon mountain full suit and an old wire mesh veil, plastic veil, and sweatband. Lighter days I just wear a veil, and skip both suits in favor of t-shirt and pants.


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## challenger (May 27, 2009)

You may think I am crazy but I'm even more lazy. If I am doing some quick hive work & it is very hot I wear a pair of shorts & sneakers. I smoke & wait a few minutes and a little more smoke after lifting the cover. I hate having to go through 5 shirts a day and veils are the first layer of protection I'll use. Even the veil is left off if I feel the bees are not angry. I must say I am very slow moving when I am so lightly dressed and if a few bees bang into me I'll put a veil & perhaps a shirt on. Normally I feel the bees go first & foremost for the ears, eyes & nose with all other body parts getting stung when a hive/apiary is on full blown stung the world alert.
I'm not proud to say I've gotten stung on the eyelid twice this year, the nose more than that & the ears even more. All these locations can be painful & if I would just open the back of my truck & put the veil on they would ha e been avoided so I deserve the stings I get and normally wear a veil for the next couple of inspections. Then I'm back to being lazy & enjoying the clear vision.
I use the frame filler for feeding hives 2:1 sugar syrup. Look at some past threads. I found filled frames are, by far IMOHO , the best way to fees bees. Once one has a filling machine the frames are filled 10 per minute with almost no waste & no more fiddling & keeping up with the other forms of feeding equipment.


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## NCbeek (Mar 23, 2011)

Couple of things that just come to mind is that I don't like the plastic mesh on my suit. It always tears or gets holes of some sort. Usually happens when I try to wash it. I've patched it with black window screen that seems to match the hole size perfectly, but hate looking around patches. Anyway, I was thinking I would like a clear, strong mesh and all I can figure is something like a fishing line mesh. It would be very strong and rarely get torn. Also, while I'm rambling here; if you've developed medical equipment, you may have seem the cool suits the surgeons wear. Flexible water lines sewn into a vest that are connected to a cooler full of ice water with a small pump pushing cold water to and from the vest like a radiator. I would love to try one in the bee yard just to see if it would work. Only the connector tubes would have to be pretty long and restrict how far you could go w/o moving the cooler. been trying to come up with a version that would suit me. As of yet nothing built.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

My old eyes cannot see eggs or very young larva through a veil. However, the veil I have presently, 99 percent of the time does not restrict my vision, at all. That is because I leave it hanging on a tree branch nearby and do not wear it. I find that my vision is much better and I do not overheat as quickly.


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## CajunBee (May 15, 2013)

Will try to get a picture up when I get home on Monday.


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## Jared.Downs (Jun 28, 2013)

I might have missed the e-mail alert I received for all these responses, love that everyone is still commenting!

@challenger-

Thanks for outlining the main areas you get stung, that's actually some pretty important information. Really helps understand the important areas for protection. When I first got my two packages this year, I was able to go into the hive for the first month without a veil or anything. Then after a while I took a bee sting to the nose and then one to the lip. My nose didn't swell but my lip sure did. After that, I've been wearing a veil every time since it's a little hard for me to be at work with a swollen face if I'm interacting with clients.


@NCbeek-

I can't say I've seen a set up like that for surgeons, but I'd love to see that! It sounds like its similar to setups I've seen for football players where they have lines routed through their shoulder pads to run cold water through when they sit on the bench.


@Joseph Clemens-

I'd love to find a solution that people would wear but have the ability for clear vision and great ventilation.


@Cajun bee-

Pictures are always great!! If you've got em I'd love to see em.


Thanks all!

I need to start sketching out my ideas and posting the sketches on here for everyone to see / comment on. Tonight I ended up 3D modeling a deep langstroth frame (just so I can have a digital version) and then some variations I'd like to do to the frame to test some ideas I've got for frames.


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## linn (Nov 19, 2010)

I think the wire mesh is easier to see through but the strings are always coming untied. This is a problem for me. Many times I wear a sweatshirt with a hood over white coveralls. The sweatshirt keeps the bees from gaining access, but like I said the strings are always coming undone.


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## Jared.Downs (Jun 28, 2013)

@linn- 

You bring up a great point that we might not have gone into a lot of detail so far. Keeping the veil bee free where it meets your shoulders / chest / neck / back.


The other day I was quickly inspecting my two nucs and had my sisters dog by my side. She likes to run after people passing down the road and when she took a step I quickly moved my head to see her and noticed that the "stretchy cord" on the bottom of the veil does not exactly maintain a nice seal at the opening. 

Another beesource member posted a link to a video of a guy that was stung 150 times and in the video he mentions the opening in the veil that the bees got through in order to sting him. 


If the veil was a veil / shirt (or jacket) combination how does that make every one here feel? Concerns about an increased cost or it being a "system"?


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## JStinson (Mar 30, 2013)

Jared, I think this link is what you are describing:

http://www.gabees.com/store/index.php?cPath=25

The picture on the hats/veils link is a veil/half shirt combo that would keep the bees off of the neck. Unfortunately, I cannot find the item for sale after following the link.


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