# dead pupae and deformed wings - is it too late?



## MiddleofMae (Mar 1, 2012)

I have 2 hives and this is my 2nd year beekeeping. This year I decided to try sugardusting the bees for varroa treatment for 6 weeks. Today would have been my final day to treat. When I opened the weaker of the two hives I saw a good number of partially developed bees- white pupae - in the cells that had partially chewed off. And amidst all the bees, there were also a number of workers I noticed with deformed wings. I think that despite the sugar dusting (I don't think I'll try that method again) they are severly infested with varroa.

My question is this: is it too late to treat the hives with something stronger, like Mite-Away Quick Strips or formic acid? It is mid-Oct and I live in the NC mountains - it is now getting pretty cold at night and days are regularly in the 60's. One thing of consideration as well - this hive has been weak all year. This hive made no extra honey during the flow, and ate what they had made within 6 weeks. I've been feeding it non-stop for weeks now (since mid- Sept). Checking in the hive today, I noticed only 6-7 partially filled shallow frames of stores (though I didn't inspect the deep). The other hive has plenty of stores- the suggested 45lbs, and this one I'm afraid doesn't even have 20 lbs. 

I'm afraid this hive is not going to make it - can I do anything for them?


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## Splatt (Jul 11, 2012)

Be interested to know the answer to this one, too. My mite count went up from 8/24 hours to 20/24 hours in a little over a month. I'm wondering if I ought to do anything before late fall (or if I even have the time).

It looks like a lot of the treatments require temperatures to be about 60, or so.


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## Axtmann (Dec 29, 2002)

The only treatment that works, when it is cold, is oxalic acid. Treat them as long as the temperature is above freezing. With a vaporizer you don't have to open your hive, it works from the entrance.


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

FWIW, if they were mine, I'd insulate the hive, treat them with formic acid, and feed them with a patty, essential oils and nosevit. Maybe even fumagilin-B. Those girls are running out of time. When it goes real cold - feed them dry or fondant, no liquid. The light colony may be combined with the newspaper method to a strong colony at worst. I would keep them together, feed them, and keep the entrance down to one bee wide so they don't get robbed. They really are too light going into winter without being fed. 

Dr. Larry Connor recommends weighing a hive with a scale. A hive of 2 deeps, 20 frames with brood, honey, comb, bees, tops and bottom should weigh at least 130 lbs going into winter or it should be fed.

Were the white dead ones NOT chalkbrood? Could it be that you dusted the hive with too much sugar and killed the brood? It should be only a mist of dust from a sifter a few feet up wind of the open hive in a very gentle wind.

Incidently, the date to not let get away next year is August 15th. That is when you want to have already whacked your mites. Thymol for a "soft" treatment, formic acid for a harsh treatment, a break in the brood cycle for treatment-free. Watch them into October, treat again if necessary. 24 mites per square inch in 24 hours means they are goners - they will not survive winter. They must be treated and harsh at that point. Those bees will need fumagilin-B just to make sure Nosema apis or nosema ceranae doesn't kill them. If they survive, go to IPM treatments next year. Make lots of queens, breed from the survivors. Best of luck.


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## MiddleofMae (Mar 1, 2012)

Thank you all for your advice. I've decided to treat them and watch their weight..... If worse comes to worst I'll combine. Thankful for the break from freezing weather where I can treat and feed! Maybe it'll hold another few weeks


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## mac (May 1, 2005)

hop guard is not temp sensitive. Also check out the section on feeding thymol and sugar


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

One thing to remember about formic acid is that the strips must be located at the TOP of the hive. The gaseous / vapor that results goes DOWN in the hive. This stuff wipes out the mites. I would want to treat over 15 days, as drones are capped from day 10 to day 24, a total of 14 days, the longest of any other bees in the hive. Any mites that were hidden under cappings would thus get treated.

I see that Check Mite is a formic acid treatment, and I would read the instructions on it for application, quantity, and location.

(Error! - Mite-Away is correct, not Check Mite. Sorry about that!)


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## JD's Bees (Nov 25, 2011)

The active ingredient in Checkmite is Coumaphos.
Mite Away Quick Strip (MAQS) is a formic acid treatment.


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

Oops! My bad....Mite-Away Quick Strips is correct. Make sure you are using FORMIC ACID when giving a severe treatment late in the season. They recommend only 7 days of treatment, and use in daytime temperature highs from 50 degrees F to 92 degrees F. The good part is that the mites will not develop resistance to this stuff, and it DOES kill them, even under the wax cappings.

My buddy has a 55-gallon barrel of formic acid, and he dips burlap or muslin strips into it and hangs it on the top bars.


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## bsquad (Jan 18, 2011)

MiddleofMae said:


> If worse comes to worst I'll combine.


It might be too late to comment on this, but you may want to think twice before combining a mite-infested hive with a healthy hive. The last thing your healthy hive needs is a few thousand additional mites.


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## MiddleofMae (Mar 1, 2012)

Bsquad, I hadn't thought about that! Hopefully there will be no need.... Maqs has been done and they are still taking feed. Maybe they will make it through. If anything, i'm certainly learning more every season!


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

Good point, bsquad! We need to be careful about ALL diseases when combining. My humble opinion regarding treatment is to go ahead and treat bees for all diseases until you have enough colonies (perhaps 25 to 30) to risk losing some while learning basic beekeeping and queen rearing, then move into Integrated Pest Management (IPM) and some (30%) treatment-free colonies as you obtain more colonies. Obtaining VSH, Russian, Hygenic Italian, Buckfast, or other mite, EFB, Chalkbrood, or other disease / pest tolerant stock should help greatly in obtaining IPM or even treatment-free status. At some point, it is best to let the stocks with little or no tolerance to anything die, or at least re-queen and kill the drones, but stay on top of your colonies, as an unattended, vacant hive with comb that has had brood in it will soon become a wax moth factory. I just charred such a mess in a fire after a colony absconded.

For more info regarding IPM, read Randy Oliver's website www.scientificbeekeeping.com His explanation is excellent.

Mae - You could combine the colonies and treat at the same time or soon afterward (4 days to chew through the paper) in order to save on treatment cost. BTW, I have avoided a lot of treatment cost by feeding Honey-B-Healthy and Nosevit in my pollen patties. This is my fourth year keeping some of my colonies, and I sacrificed some production for a break in the brood cycle by removing all brood in my oldest colonies. A cappings fork test indicated it was time - I found lots of mites on the drone brood that I pulled out. A 20x magnifier showed a lot of difficult-to-see mites in the white stages. I froze the combs at -10 F for 3 days and let the bees clean out the combs.

A sudden, late, forced move just cost me a lot of bees and colonies, but the toughest colony so treated seems it might yet survive the winter. Survive or not, I will be starting all over again next spring, without enough strong colonies for cell builder and support colonies for queen rearing. Wish me luck, as I do you.


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