# To make it real



## Juhani Lunden

Here is a post for those who dare.

Treatment free beekeepers with their bees, in same picture.


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## Oldtimer

LOL, now we know it's been true the whole time! 

I met Alan at Taupo, he said he had just enjoyed a fantastic holiday. He also told me a certain prominent TF beekeeper & queen breeder may be moving to NZ. I hope so that will be very interesting.


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## Juhani Lunden

Good, I thought this would make it more scientific. 
It is so easy to speak about bees, they might be invented, they might not even be yours.


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## Juhani Lunden

Hey Folks, what are you afraid? I really wanted to see a picture of all the keen TF beekeepers on this forum. 

Lots of pictures of the Lusby´s on their yards, Tim Ives has some videos as I do, but com´on Mike Bispham, Salomon Parker, Michael Bush, squarepeg, deknow, Fusion Power, WLC, rhaldrigde etc. 

It would make a fine advertisement for TF beekeeping. All the faces and bees on same picture, around the world.


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## JWChesnut

Okay,
Here are Pix of my experimental TF yard. This experiment has been in operation since 2002. It receives swarms captured out of a state park and wilderness area. It is not successful. 
Overview -- 8 hives present today. (2 perished this past month)

Landscape from the yard, the field below is a hybrid seed production field, carried blooming Cauliflower x Broccoli through the early summer.


Myself inspecting a 2013 hive, that overwintered 10 frame medium foundationless, from a Big Sur (south coast ridge road) swarm trap. 
This hive built up through May-June, but starting mid-July is showing Mite Syndrome, just after this pix was take I broke down the hive to avoid a rob out. Now I box tall.


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## squarepeg

nice pics all! i'll see what i can come up with juhani.


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## Oldtimer

Scary JWC!


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## Solomon Parker

Here is me with Michael Bush's bees, two birds with one stone: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-QX8cpVe28JI/Tg9oS2v84oI/AAAAAAAABuY/a1tkQfiIwek/s1600/Topbar.JPG

I'll post a picture of myself with my new yard when I get it set up.


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## Juhani Lunden

Fantastic! 

Thank you JWChesnut and Salomon Parker!


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## Solomon Parker

If you want to hear my voice, you can listen to the podcast.


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## Solomon Parker

You'll be disappointed. 

With the voice, hopefully not the podcast. I have a face for radio and a voice for fast food drive-through.


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## Juhani Lunden

It is Internet -world we are living in. 

You have to make yourself available, heard and seen to others. That is the fact. I never followed any discussion forums untill October 2013. Then I realized, just by accident, that beekeepers in Sweden were thinking that my TF experiment has failed, because I don´t shout it loud in different forums. 

In Internet world all knowledge is available to everybody. This means that unless you provide all information to others, you are nothing. People think there is something wrong with you. 

Salomon Parker and JWChesnut are now more real to me. For some mysterious reason I believe in them more than I did before, because they followed this rule of giving all information. 


And it is the other way round. When a beekeeper does not provide all asked information, he or she becomes nobody, gradually. Pictures have strong influence.


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## estreya

With no small measure of guilt, i admit that i can't get enough of the photographs people so generously post here. I just love them to bits, and find them to be very inspiring. People don't photograph something unless they think it's important ...

Reading is more a challenge for me, but i do try ... 

Thanks for the thread. I hope more people post their treatment free apiaries here ...


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## Solomon Parker

Juhani Lunden said:


> Salomon Parker and JWChesnut are now more real to me. For some mysterious reason I believe in them more than I did before, because they followed this rule of giving all information.


So my pouring forth of information, the likes of which is never seen from anyone else in this forum, didn't lead you to believe me? The blogs, the website, the podcast, nothing? You had to have a picture of part of my face (which you have no way of knowing is actually me).

I can't for the life of me think of an insult that would do you justice.

What a nightmare.

Please spell my name correctly.


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## estreya

Solomon Parker ...

~ hugs ~

I LOVE your posts! I'm sorry if i added any grist to the mill with my comment. I just love looking at photographs as well, ever greedy for visuals. I also assimilate a little more easily when there are pictures involved (ask me if i've ever cooked anything from a cookbook if the recipe wasn't illustrated).


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## sqkcrk

I bet you believe that there are bees and honey in those hives in those photos, yet you haven't seen them, have you? So you see, seeing isn't necessary for believing after all.


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## Oldtimer

Solomon Parker said:


> You had to have a picture of part of my face (which you have no way of knowing is actually me).
> 
> What a nightmare.


Oh I know it's you Solomon. Despite being carefully concealed the few features visible have Solomon Parker written all over them LOL. Don't know why the thread has taken such a negative twist from the intent of the original post.

Here is a New Zealand crew ready for action


But seriously why so shy everyone? You gotta look better and smarter than my NZ crew!


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## JWChesnut

Oldtimer said:


> Here is a New Zealand crew ready for action


Are you the white haired one in the center, or are you the brown one on the right? How do you hold a smoker in your hoof?


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## Oldtimer

I was the extra shy one hiding behind the camera.


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## Barry

Here is my TF bee on my finger.


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## Juhani Lunden

Solomon Parker said:


> So I can't for the life of me think of an insult that would do you justice.
> 
> What a nightmare.


Insult, for what? Spelling your name incorrectly?

Sorry Solomon. You are a bit hot are you?

Well... you have, even before the picture, which by the way was not what I asked, a picture of the beekeeper in his bee yard, provided us with nearly all the information possible. You are an exception, in a good way. You have figured out this Internet world truth years ago, maybe better than anyone else.


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## Oldtimer

Solomon Parker said:


> So my pouring forth of information, the likes of which is never seen from anyone else in this forum


Really? Ego issues? Oh please.

Surprising as you may find it, I have been able to glean useful information from others, Juhani being one of them.


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## Juhani Lunden

sqkcrk said:


> I bet you believe that there are bees and honey in those hives in those photos, yet you haven't seen them, have you? So you see, seeing isn't necessary for believing after all.


To make it real, videos really are needed. But for most of us it is too much to ask for. Michael Palmer is very real to me, despite never meeting him, because he has videos of his speeches about his beekeeping, speeches on video with pictures. 

Here is me giving a speech when elected for the Beekeeper of the year 2014 in Finland.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1n4zGYWGXE

Here is me getting queens from mating station and inseminating.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boK7I0Z-ppk&list=UUx4KBmolNYQdo1Xqx_9v3Gg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDb50zpYWNA&list=UUx4KBmolNYQdo1Xqx_9v3Gg

(I put these, Oldtimer, for ego issues. Somebody is commenting "I can only hope to learn 1/8th of what this Beekeeper knows. Very impressive to say the least Thanks" 
In the insemination video I got the queen from air when it escaped from the mating nuc. There is a queen excluder for insemination in the entrance.)


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## Solomon Parker

Juhani Lunden said:


> Insult, for what?


For thinking, no saying, that a picture makes it real when a picture is one of the easiest things to fake. You know what's not easy to fake? 5000 posts in 12 years. Fake that.

Well here's another disappointment for you because I'm not standing in my bee yard, I'm standing on the back of my trailer. 









And here's one with me standing right in the middle of my bee yard... behind the camera. A full 360 degree panoramic shot with a 16 megapixel camera. Pretty hard to fake.









It's also hard to fake years of pictures of my other previous yards. Check out my blog for a pretty substantial catalog.


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## Juhani Lunden

Solomon Parker said:


> a picture is one of the easiest things *to fake*. You know what's not easy *to fake*? 5000 posts in 12 years. *Fake that.*
> . Pretty hard *to fake.*It's also* hard to fake *years of pictures of my other previous yards.


I wonder why you think I think you fake.


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## Oldtimer

Bad day Solomon? wow you don't seem happy. 

But please re read the opening post. You will see it is not all about you.

I saw it as a fun thread for people to post pics, plus a light hearted dig at those (reputed) folks who say that TF hives do not really exist. That's it, why so much aggro?

This thread could still get back on track if people come out of hiding and put up a few pics. I'd love to see what some folks look like and the ones of JWC and his bees are great what an awesome landscape to keep bees in! There are some great ones of me & my bees but I'm not treatment free wish I was.


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## Solomon Parker

Juhani Lunden said:


> Salomon Parker and JWChesnut are now more real to me.


If I'm not real, what am I?

Are you the sort of person who requires a contract when a handshake will do?


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## Oldtimer

I think you must have an extremely high testosterone level plus took some angry pills. 

Why you up this time of night too much aggro to sleep?

The thread is just a bit of fun, or, was meant to be.


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## mpgreer

sol... buddy...

there's a certain tone to the finnish language that comes across poorly in an internet forum. i don't think he meant what you think he did.

...i've been enjoying the podcasts. i feel like i've gotten to know you better. and i don't mean that in a bad way.


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## sqkcrk

mpgreer, just FYI, Solomon does not like to be called "sol" or "old sol" or "saulie baby". Just thought you'd like to know.

You can call me Jay. You can call me John. Just don't call me late for dinner.


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## sqkcrk

Solomon Parker said:


> If I'm not real, what am I?


Well, Solomon, you are in Denver. The mile high city. Maybe you haven't gotten used to that thin air yet? And it's making you cranky? Did somebody back in Arkansas get your goat?


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## Barry

Mrs. Parker?


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## Barry

Solomon Parker said:


> If I'm not real, what am I?
> 
> Are you the sort of person who requires a signature when a handshake will do?


Good grief Sol, lighten up. You're totally missing the boat on this one.


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## Juhani Lunden

sqkcrk said:


> I bet you believe that there are bees and honey in those hives in those photos, yet you haven't seen them, have you? So you see, seeing isn't necessary for believing after all.


 I cannot know if there are any bees in those tower hives, you so often like to send pictures. Pictures are good, videos even better, podcasts are for those knowing that language well enough to follow.

But to make it real the best, and a thing which very few of you have, is testimony from another beekeeper.

I have a testimony from the leading bee breeder in Europe, that a queen I sent him does not need any varroa treatments.


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## Daniel Y

sqkcrk said:


> I bet you believe that there are bees and honey in those hives in those photos, yet you haven't seen them, have you? So you see, seeing isn't necessary for believing after all.


Actually I would not. I see a photo of hives with no evidence there are any bees. This is part of why most of my posts are misunderstood. I do not make the assumptions that others make so commonly and without question.

Further many will now think I just made a claim the photo is a deception. I in fact did not. I simply stated it is not a photo of bees but a photo of hives with no evidence of bees. As to why that photo was taken you would have to ask the photographer.

In the case of this thread Solomon in fact reads "More Real" as "Not Real" It tells me something about Solomon. I know Solomon does this because he himself says so. He is then insulted by his own twisting of the words. once he realizes he has insulted himself he blames it on others. Then proceeds to display what I consider completely unreasonable expectations of others regard for himself. And this after a string of insults he made toward himself. He makes, in apparent jest comments about his looks and his voice. Then insults his very existence and throws a tantrum for having done so accusing someone else for in fact having cast the insult. All I can say is if you cannot get along Solomon. stay away form yourself. Otherwise it is all nothing much more than a childish display.


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## Solomon Parker

mpgreer said:


> there's a certain tone to the finnish language that comes across poorly in an internet forum.


Must be.




sqkcrk said:


> And it's making you cranky?


Had my integrity questioned a few too many times. Have you ever heard me say "those hives didn't actually die, you're just padding your numbers"? Yet I hear the opposite all the time. I am probably the most forthcoming person on this forum, almost embarrassingly so, and yet I am almost constantly called into question. And it's really frustrating. Do you understand this?




Barry said:


> No, left hand. Ring in front of the knuckle, not behind it.


You are mistaken. It is in the usual position. I do occasionally put it on the other hand to play guitar as it knocks on the fretboard.


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## sqkcrk

Juhani Lunden said:


> I cannot know if there are any bees in those tower hives, you so often like to send pictures. Pictures are good, videos even better, podcasts are for those knowing that language well enough to follow.
> 
> But to make it real the best, and a thing which very few of you have, is testimony from another beekeeper.
> 
> I have a testimony from the leading bee breeder in Europe, that a queen I sent him does not need any varroa treatments.


We all operate on a certain amount of faith and trust, don't you think? I believe that there are bees in those boxes, even though I don't know that there are. I also find some people more credible and believeable and trustworthy than other people. I operate on the idea of trusting a person until they earn distrust, w/in reason. If something doesn't smell right, it's probably rotten.

You seem credible to me, by the way. In case you wondered.


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## sqkcrk

Solomon Parker said:


> Had my integrity questioned a few too many times. Have you ever heard me say "those hives didn't actually die, you're just padding your numbers"? Yet I hear the opposite all the time. I am probably the most forthcoming person on this forum, almost embarrassingly so, and yet I am almost constantly called into question. And it's really frustrating. Do you understand this?


Of course I do, Solomon, good buddy. You do sometimes write some incredible things. Which causes questions to be asked.


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## Solomon Parker

sqkcrk said:


> You seem credible to me, by the way.


I appreciate that, but do you remember how many blow up fights we had before you got to that point?

The problem is, there's a cadre of beekeepers who like to hang round this forum smelling something rotten every opportunity they get. After doing this for 11 years (and Michael Bush doing it for years and years (I've seen it in person, it's exactly like the pictures say it is), and all whoever else) if you're smelling something rotten, it's the egg on your own face. The jury is not still out on this issue. And after years of being told that what I do can't be done, now the tune has changed to "you can do it there, but I can't do it here." That's just as bogus as it always was. Somebody should be getting embarrassed at some point.

Here, some evidence that there are actually bees in the hives (as if the bees in the panoramic picture weren't enough).


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## sqkcrk

Quit yer photo shopping, Solomon. 

Yeah, I remember. I've moved on to other engineers. lol


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## Juhani Lunden

Juhani Lunden said:


> But to make it real the best, and a thing which very few of you have, is testimony from another beekeeper.


Why is nobody commenting this part? Who has testimony from another beekeeper? Solomon, Michael Bush, Luzbys? Don´t say beekeeping is local, my testimony is 2000 km from here.


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## Solomon Parker

*Opens lid* 

Yep, those are bees. 

How they got there, how long they've been there, whether they've been treated or not, who can say?


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## Oldtimer

Solomon Parker said:


> after years of being told that what I do can't be done, now the tune has changed to "you can do it there, but I can't do it here." That's just as bogus as it always was. Somebody should be getting embarrassed at some point.


Yes, you.

TF beekeeping cannot be done where I am, at this time. Sometime in the future when / if we get the right bees? Perhaps. Beekeeping is local. Nothing bogus about that.

To think otherwise is because you have not been here, have not seen, do not know, have not tried, but have an ego so big you think you can make pronouncements from on high and they will be true.

You have explained what you have been through to excuse why you transferred all your anger on to Juhani. But to tell me that I am a failure just cos I'm a bad beekeeper etc & I've been getting this line for a while, is the *exact mentality that you claim to be a victim of*, just the other way around, boot on the other foot. You are a hypocrite. 

If you come here and try it you will know. Until then you are talking out an orifice. And by the way, I have not ever told you your treatment free hives do not exist and really don't know who all these people are you keep saying are telling you that you are not really doing it. But I have to suffer these implications from you, inferring I am lying and stupid.

Beekeeping IS local and not only in regard to mites, in regard to whole management systems. If you don't know that you just don't know much at all and need to get out and look more.

You said the site where you had 83% losses last season was because of the other guy. Lots of beekeepers are next to the "other guy". Just that makes beekeeping local, can't you see?


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## Andrew Dewey

@Solomon - I would love to succeed at TF Beekeeping; it is heartening to hear of your success.

The US is a big country and local/regional conditions trump just about everything when it come to beekeeping.

For me the road to TF beekeeping will be through IPM and continued experimenting with imported bees while maintaining a going concern of conventionally managed bees.

I don't have the temperament for being the (perhaps a) prime experimenter - it sure seems you do. I am grateful that you choose to share your knowledge and experiences.

You get the point - I haven't met you in person - but I've read enough of your writings to have confidence that you are the real deal.


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## Oldtimer

If 83% losses are the real deal, he's it.

I'm just tired of his pronouncements about others, myself included, while at the same time playing victim.


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## Ralf_H

Hello Juhani!


Juhani Lunden said:


> Why is nobody commenting this part? Who has testimony from another beekeeper? Solomon, Michael Bush, Luzbys? Don´t say beekeeping is local, my testimony is 2000 km from here.


I think the reason is because Buckfast-breeding isn't very popular in the US and people don't know Paul Jungels.
I'm happy that I got a daughter of one of your Queens from Josef Koller. Can't say much at the moment, but this split doesn't have much varroa at the moment and I think it doesn't need treatment.
Ralf 
Munich Germany


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## Andrew Dewey

Juhani Lunden said:


> Why is nobody commenting this part? Who has testimony from another beekeeper? Solomon, Michael Bush, Luzbys? Don´t say beekeeping is local, my testimony is 2000 km from here.


There are videos of Dee Lusby's bees floating around. I've seen the videos - I presume others have as well. As for Michael, well I had the pleasure to sit next to him at a meeting where he was speaking. I was undoubtedly lousy company and ended up the next day at an ER painfully passing kidney stones - while I didn't ask him for photographic evidence he certainly seemed like someone who has worked a mess of bees in his time.

On another subject - genuine Buckfast stock is in very short supply in the US. I am going to see about importing some queens next year from Canada - they'd better live up to their reputation!

This board has by and large been about beekeeping in the English speaking world. (mostly the Americas) While I think it is wonderful that you are contributing there is in the crowds I pay attention to scant knowledge of what is happening in your area (or anywhere in the EU for that matter) or who the players are.


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## Fusion_power

Well, I don't have my bees in this pic, but if you really want to see them, I'll show you a pic of them sitting on my front porch on google maps. On the other hand, I've posted enough pics of them the last few years that you might suspect they are real.










As for Solomon being credible, I don't know, what if he is actually in-credible. lol


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## JWChesnut

--removed by me--- (an observation on the bottom entrances and cell gauge in the 2011 Memorial Day Parker pix).


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## sqkcrk

Ralf_H said:


> Hello Juhani!
> 
> I think the reason is because Buckfast-breeding isn't very popular in the US and people don't know Paul Jungels.
> I'm happy that I got a daughter of one of your Queens from Josef Koller. Can't say much at the moment, but this split doesn't have much varroa at the moment and I think it doesn't need treatment.
> Ralf
> Munich Germany


There are plenty of Buckfast in the US of A and there have been for years. In Canada too.

I haven't figured out how to resize my photos, so if you want to see my bees you'll have to check them out on Facebook or come here and help me w/ them. I just got finished transferring 4 nucs, 5 over 5s, into full sized boxes w/ feeders and new medium supers and new covers. Nectar was shaking out and goldenrod is in the air.


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## Solomon Parker

I have a beekeeping video! You may recognize the box colors and entrance configuration.

http://youtu.be/uLlbuwJUg2U?list=UUcQlklnTz4VutnehAR0driA


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## Juhani Lunden

Ralf_H said:


> Hello Juhani!
> 
> I think the reason is because Buckfast-breeding isn't very popular in the US and people don't know Paul Jungels.
> I'm happy that I got a daughter of one of your Queens from Josef Koller. Can't say much at the moment, but this split doesn't have much varroa at the moment and I think it doesn't need treatment.
> Ralf
> Munich Germany


Fantastic Ralf! Happy to hear from you, you made my day, no, my month.

We were planning with Josef to send some queens to each other this summer, to see if TF beekeeping is local or not. Josef doubts it. But I had this bear damage (76% of my mating nucs were destroyed) so I really have no queens, some of my own hives had to be left with their old queen. 

I´m amazed so far, if there really is nobody else who has send queens to other beekeeper, and this other beekeeper has found them to be varroa resistant. And allows it to be said in public.


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## Juhani Lunden

sqkcrk said:


> or come here and help me w/ them.


I might come some day, how long would working days be?


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## BernhardHeuvel

sqkcrk said:


> There are plenty of Buckfast


The question is: are there enough good buckfast breeders?


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## sqkcrk

What's your definition of "good"? I'm sure the folks that sell them think that they are good.


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## Andrew Dewey

sqkcrk said:


> What's your definition of "good"? I'm sure the folks that sell them think that they are good.


I'm _told_ that most Buckfast in the US resemble true Buckfast in name only - primarily due to import restrictions.

I also _understand_ that some of those restrictions have recently loosened and that for a price I will be able to get queens from Canada. I hope to arrange an order with Ferguson Apiaries in I think, Ontario.

Please educate me if what I have been told or understand is incorrect.


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## sqkcrk

I don't think you are wrong about that. Drone semen was imported years ago. That's how we got "Buckfast" in the US. The Canadians got their "Buckfast" from us by importation of eggs on comb. So, unless they also got something else more directly from England, how "good" could Canadian Buckfast be. Intirely possible I don't know all there is to know and my info is old, outdated, and no longer correct.


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## Juhani Lunden

Fusion_power said:


> On the other hand, I've posted enough pics of them the last few years that you might suspect they are real.
> As for Solomon being credible, I don't know, what if he is actually in-credible.



Thanks Fusion_Power for the picture! Google maps,?, I did not get it... 

When I wrote in post 3 "It is so easy to speak about bees, they might be invented, they might not even be yours. " I wrote it with a Smiley and meant just to shake you all, to see who has the guts.

The way people write about bees tells a lot about them, but pictures really help you think the right way about what they write.

I envy Solomon because all of his hives are equally tall and so well painted. I have a lot weak hives which don´t produce surplus honey at all.


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## Solomon Parker

Juhani Lunden said:


> I envy Solomon because all of his hives are equally tall and so well painted. I have a lot weak hives which don´t produce surplus honey at all.


Doesn't mean they're all equally full. I leave "supers" on all year. They are well painted. Now that I'm in a dry climate, perhaps the boxes will stop rotting.


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## Juhani Lunden

Solomon Parker said:


> Doesn't mean they're all equally full. I leave "supers" on all year.


You return extracted supers back to the hives and give equally many boxes on each hive? Have you selected the best 12 hives, in the picture, to make a crop in some flower field, given them all max number of boxes, bring them to home yard after harvesting?

Sure you don´t leave them 8 boxes high in the winter storms in the middle of a field?


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## Solomon Parker

Juhani Lunden said:


> You return extracted supers back to the hives and give equally many boxes on each hive?


Essentially. I try to keep a minimum of five deeps (or seven mediums) on each hive at all times. It's a truly unlimited broodnest. Eventually some hives will excel and they will get more boxes. But after harvest the empty comb goes back on the hives more or less evenly. No storing comb, no moth problems, no chemicals to stop moth problems.




Juhani Lunden said:


> Have you selected the best 12 hives, in the picture, to make a crop in some flower field, given them all max number of boxes, bring them to home yard after harvesting?


There are 14 in the picture, but that is the home yard for now. I just moved and have not gotten everything to the optimal state. Normally I'd have ~24 hives and some nucs as well, but I slimmed down so I could move them 800+ miles (1300 km). But that is more or less the normal configuration.




Juhani Lunden said:


> Sure you don´t leave them 8 boxes high in the winter storms in the middle of a field?


Yes, I do. I have never had one blown over in up to 40 mph (65 kph) winds. However, the winds may be higher here so I'm going to build a wind blocking fence.


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## Michael Bush

>the winds may be higher here so I'm going to build a wind blocking fence. 

Two issues with where you are now: winds will gust to 65 mph sometimes. The wind is relentless. I thought it was relentless in Nebraska, but after living in Laramie, I realize I didn't know what relentless was... If you have brand new boxes with no propolis between them yet, you need a concrete block on top to keep the wind from gradually moving the boxes...


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## Solomon Parker

They all have pretty decent blocks on top. And I'm not leaving huge open entrances on them this year. I'm thinking of putting a piece of plywood up as a snow fence, block the worst of the wind.


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## cristianNiculae

A poorly constructed wind fence can be worse then nothing. I've once had a wide piece of metal sheet blowing just above my had .


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## mike bispham

My stands are arranged in paired groups of 4, making 8 in most images

The swarms and cut-outs are simply spread out.

There about 60 colonies shown here. I've included a clip of yesterday's Guardian colour supplement so you see which are current.

The bees are not flying today, so I've included some photos few weeks old showing them present. If any of you gents would like to identify a hive at random, I'll be happy to pop the top off and show you the occupants. (But of course I could have just swapped them in.)

I've included a few recent photos showing swarms being collected, a swarm flying in to an empty hive etc to try to fill out the picture a bit more. I can add images of my (modest and homespun) equipment, processing etc. 

Insulting doesn't begin to describe this. I've honestly described my circumstances for the last 5 years, with my full name attached. The only people who would doubt that are people who lie themselves; people who can't recognise honesty even after 5 years.








Stands B1 & 2








Stands B3 & 4








Stands M1 & 2








Stands M3 &4








Stands M5 & 6








Stand M7 & 8








Stand M9








2015 Swarms & Cutouts








Home Swarm (Fly-in)








Flying Bees








Red Pollen & Drones


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## Oldtimer

Good pics, wish I could get some nice flat sites like that!


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## BernhardHeuvel

​Thanks for the pictures. Makes things more real to me. :thumbsup:

But why the heck do you place your hives right into a commercial fruit orchard? Right on the glyphosate-treated ground? With all the spraying you won't make life easier for your bees. Especially when there is no other nectar source despite the fruit trees! You refuse to use varroacides and then place your bees right into the most pesticide contaminated environment I can think of. That is a bit paradox, isn't it?

Greetings,

Bernhard


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## mike bispham

BernhardHeuvel said:


> ​Thanks for the pictures. Makes things more real to me. :thumbsup:
> 
> But why the heck do you place your hives right into a commercial fruit orchard? Right on the glyphosate-treated ground? With all the spraying you won't make life easier for your bees. Especially when there is no other nectar source despite the fruit trees! You refuse to use varroacides and then place your bees right into the most pesticide contaminated environment I can think of. That is a bit paradox, isn't it?
> 
> Greetings,
> 
> Bernhard


Hi Bernhard,

It wasn't an easy decision, but the chance to make up to £3000 annually in pollinations fees swung it. Also, as well as the 100s of acres of fruit the sites have good access to all sorts of other things - some potentially bad, but some very good indeed. The flowers aren't sprayed with insecticides (though they are sprayed with fungicides) - the fruit farmers do their best to protect pollinators, and I'm hoping to be able to help them fine-tune. Its an experiment, and I'm hopeful good will come of it on lots of different levels. I'll be comparing performance with other much more natural sites in due course. 

There's no paradox though. The objection to varroacides is that they are genetically addictive. None of the other chemicals present that hazard.

Mike (UK)


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## clyderoad

your arguments, hardline tf/survivor approach and judgement of other beekeepers and their methods is now in serious doubt.
Thanks for the pictures, sure put things in perspective for me.



mike bispham said:


> Hi Bernhard,
> 
> It wasn't an easy decision, but the chance to make up to £3000 annually in pollinations fees swung it. Also, as well as the 100s of acres of fruit the sites have good access to all sorts of other things - some potentially bad, but some very good indeed. The flowers aren't sprayed with insecticides (though they are sprayed with fungicides) - the fruit farmers do their best to protect pollinators, and I'm hoping to be able to help them fine-tune. Its an experiment, and I'm hopeful good will come of it on lots of different levels. I'll be comparing performance with other much more natural sites in due course.
> 
> There's no paradox though. The objection to varroacides is that they are genetically addictive. None of the other chemicals present that hazard.
> 
> Mike (UK)


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## mike bispham

clyderoad said:


> your arguments, hardline tf/survivor approach and judgement of other beekeepers and their methods is now in serious doubt.


In what way/s? Is it the case that you formed a view of what I do without actually bothering to find out what I do?

Mike (UK)


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## AHudd

Oldtimer said:


> Oh I know it's you Solomon. Despite being carefully concealed the few features visible have Solomon Parker written all over them LOL. Don't know why the thread has taken such a negative twist from the intent of the original post.
> 
> Here is a New Zealand crew ready for action
> 
> 
> But seriously why so shy everyone? You gotta look better and smarter than my NZ crew!


 I don't see how anyone could look at those faces and not grin. 

Thanks, Alex


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## Juhani Lunden

I want to remind all posters, that the OP requested photos of the BEEKEEPER and his/her bees, TOGETHER in the same picture. 

I know it takes guts.


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## Juhani Lunden

Ralf_H said:


> Hello Juhani!
> 
> I think the reason is because Buckfast-breeding isn't very popular in the US and people don't know Paul Jungels.
> I'm happy that I got a daughter of one of your Queens from Josef Koller. Can't say much at the moment, but this split doesn't have much varroa at the moment and I think it doesn't need treatment.
> Ralf
> Munich Germany


Hallo Ralf!

How is my queens daughter doing?


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## Ralf_H

Hello Juhani!


Juhani Lunden said:


> Hallo Ralf!
> 
> How is my queens daughter doing?


Unfotunately the colony with this queen didn't survive the winter 2014/2015. But I got two more daughters of your Queen from Josef in 2015 and they do very well without treatment. I want to use them next year for drone production for insemination.

Ralf


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## Juhani Lunden

Have you measured mite infestation levels?

Did you know that I had to disregard this line (V7) because it got AFB? Josef has told me that he is very happy with the mother, I suppose you don´t have much AFB pressure in Germany.


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## Ralf_H

Yes, but only once this year: Colony No. 5: 0,7% on 24.06.2016 and Colony No. 29: 1,2% on 09.07.2016. Last year both colonies were between 0,0 and 0,6% between 18.7. and 5.9.2015.


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## Juhani Lunden

So the mites are making increase in number 29, but not in the number 5. Quite normal result and fairly low levels. Do you have much colonies around them?


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## Ralf_H

This year mite levels are higher here than last year in general. In some colonies I had up to 6% of mites this year, but in the following weeks they reduced the mite levels again to below 2% without any treatment.
There are some of my untreated colonies around and some treated not far away.


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## Juhani Lunden

Great observation, seen the same happening in my hives too. Varroa resistant bees seem to get rid of mites in some threshold point.


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