# How to do a Taranov split w/ top hive entrance



## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Apparently you can set the ramp up on the ground 10 feet or more away from the hive and the queen and non oriented bees will cluster under the lip of the ramp. The flying bees will return to your upper entrance.


----------



## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

Crofter X 2


----------



## Slow Drone (Apr 19, 2014)

Crofter X 3


----------



## Hoot Owl Lane Bees (Feb 24, 2012)

When I do mine I set the new hive on the ground with the board only going up the height of 1 deep hive body.
When finished add whatever top you use.
Maby you need to watch a few videos for clearer understanding of how to do a Taranov split.


----------



## marcos bees (Jun 3, 2013)

I did watch a few videos, but none seemed to be with a hive top entrance. But in the videos I saw the board goes up to the old hive right? Then you take the cluster and put it into a new hive far enough away from original hive. Am i missing something?




Hoot Owl Lane Bees said:


> When I do mine I set the new hive on the ground with the board only going up the height of 1 deep hive body.
> When finished add whatever top you use.
> Maby you need to watch a few videos for clearer understanding of how to do a Taranov split.


----------



## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Crofter for the win.
But I'd be sure you have the queen... otherwise give them one of the frames with a cell (but they might still swarm?). No point in having a big ball of queenless nurse bees.

Separate all of the measurements and precise dictation of most of the Taranov method stuff and forget it. Just shake them out and give them a ramp a little ways off the ground to cluster on/under. You'll be fine. The longer you wait the better chance of your queen and bees taking off (if they haven't already).


----------



## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

But to answer you original question
Just like you would do with a bottom entrance


----------



## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

agree with crofter as well, Often times I don't even put the ramp in front of the originating hive, I just put it leaning onto the entrance of the new hive in the new hive location and shake them out. restrict your entrace a bit and it will be easier to spot your marked queen walking in. as when she gets up there they will part a little bit and let her walk right in. This stage of the game though since you aren't 100% sure the queen is still there, it would be best to at the very least give them a frame of eggs. so they can make a new queen if need be.


----------



## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

sakhoney said:


> But to answer you original question
> Just like you would do with a bottom entrance


The confusing part is that most of the "documentation" has very precise measurements 8" from entrance at same level, let them cluster for a certain amount of time, blah blah blah. I think that's fluff there to make people think they're doing something scientific. You do a Taranov shake (with queen cells) for one of two reasons 1) You've decided that you're going to let your bees do their thing and shake your swarms instead of letting them take off. It's not ideal, but it could be a valid form of management. 2) You were unsuccessful at swarm prevention.

You could also do one to separate nurse bees for marching into a weaker hive, but in this case... with cells...


----------



## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

Harley - he has 4 cells - If it were me - may want to cut one off and install as well? Just in case he misses the queen


----------



## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

sakhoney said:


> Harley - he has 4 cells - If it were me - may want to cut one off and install as well? Just in case he misses the queen


he very well could that is why I said "at least" put in eggs. the thing I would be concerned about is if that thing hatches and takes off on a mating flight before they really get any comb building going, they may just take right off with her. I personally would probably put a frame of eggs in there and check back in 48 hrs and if they are starting cups see if any cells were left, and if so place one...... if he thinks the queen is still there there is a good chance they are freshly capped. The other cells I'd put in a little 2-3 frame mating nuc just to increase my chances of getting a mated queen. I hate to waste queen cells.


----------



## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

As well as I - never know what she would turn out like


----------



## Hoot Owl Lane Bees (Feb 24, 2012)

I put 2 frames of brood in the new hive body and they walk in and down almost every time.


----------



## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Where are all the bees? For a hive that is about to swarm it seems rather vacant. Seeing some eggs is a bit perplexing but I have had two occasions where I mistook a supercedure for a swarm. The last one the queen was still laying a bit but finally caught on to the clue that a lot of worker brood size cells had bullet drones in them. I had capped cells, one cell opened from the bottom, and eggs! At that point I do not know if the old lady was still alive but it was a puzzling situation. I will go back in a couple of weeks and see what is going on.


----------



## marcos bees (Jun 3, 2013)

Good point. I brushed and smoke them off so I could take the photo:applause:













crofter said:


> Where are all the bees? For a hive that is about to swarm it seems rather vacant. Seeing some eggs is a bit perplexing but I have had two occasions where I mistook a supercedure for a swarm. The last one the queen was still laying a bit but finally caught on to the clue that a lot of worker brood size cells had bullet drones in them. I had capped cells, one cell opened from the bottom, and eggs! At that point I do not know if the old lady was still alive but it was a puzzling situation. I will go back in a couple of weeks and see what is going on.


----------



## marcos bees (Jun 3, 2013)

Thanks for all the help, so my plan is to leave the some of the swarm cells in the old hive location. I will also leave brood and eggs with them. 

According to this video, you don't need to find the queen for the split, who knows? So much conflicting info these days in beekeeping:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/ETgWMMZr4So








Harley Craig said:


> he very well could that is why I said "at least" put in eggs. the thing I would be concerned about is if that thing hatches and takes off on a mating flight before they really get any comb building going, they may just take right off with her. I personally would probably put a frame of eggs in there and check back in 48 hrs and if they are starting cups see if any cells were left, and if so place one...... if he thinks the queen is still there there is a good chance they are freshly capped. The other cells I'd put in a little 2-3 frame mating nuc just to increase my chances of getting a mated queen. I hate to waste queen cells.


----------



## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

typically you wouldn't need to find the queen because she is shaken out. But this is TYPICALLY done pre queen cell cap when you know the queen is still in there. If you are 100 % sure the queen is still in there shake every frame out minus the ones with queen cells, those get a brush so you don't knock the larva off the jelly bed and don't look back, they will start a new colony.


----------



## marcos bees (Jun 3, 2013)

What are the chances she's still in there if I saw eggs yesterday?




Harley Craig said:


> typically you wouldn't need to find the queen because she is shaken out. But this is TYPICALLY done pre queen cell cap when you know the queen is still in there. If you are 100 % sure the queen is still in there shake every frame out minus the ones with queen cells, those get a brush so you don't knock the larva off the jelly bed and don't look back, they will start a new colony.


----------



## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

If you saw eggs that just means she's been there in the last 3 days how close you watched them the last 3 days?


----------



## marcos bees (Jun 3, 2013)

Well fellas, sorry to say that my hive split was a a big fat failure. Turns out when we set up the board and everything, the new hive was under the board and was accidentally touching the pallet underneath the old hive, so while the bees did cluster initially, they ended up walking down other side of the new hive and walking onto pallet and eventually back into the old hive.


----------



## Hoot Owl Lane Bees (Feb 24, 2012)

did you see the Queen ?

You are learning, give it another try tomorrow if you can.
I usually set up so i'm standing between the new hive and the old hive when finished.
We have ALL had days like that!


----------



## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

marcos bees said:


> Well fellas, sorry to say that my hive split was a a big fat failure. Turns out when we set up the board and everything, the new hive was under the board and was accidentally touching the pallet underneath the old hive, so while the bees did cluster initially, they ended up walking down other side of the new hive and walking onto pallet and eventually back into the old hive.


All the more reason to have taken to heart the following... 



crofter said:


> Apparently you can set the ramp up on the ground 10 feet or more away from the hive and the queen and non oriented bees will cluster under the lip of the ramp. The flying bees will return to your upper entrance.





jwcarlson said:


> Crofter for the win.
> Separate all of the measurements and precise dictation of most of the Taranov method stuff and forget it. Just shake them out and give them a ramp a little ways off the ground to cluster on/under.


Go shake them again... put the ramp so they cluster right above/into the new hive. Wear your bee suit.


----------



## crofter (May 5, 2011)

The first few times I did it I was a lot more worried about getting the ramp the same elevation and close to the entrance. It saves a move or two if you have them go into the target box directly and have it well away from the originating hive. Less chance too, of them doing an end run around you like yours did. 

Give them another go round!


----------



## Kuro (Jun 18, 2015)

Just curious, can I just shake all bees directly into a new box, away from the original hive? Or is it important to let them walk on a ramp and make a cluster before shaking them (or letting them walk) into the new box?


----------



## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Kuro said:


> Just curious, can I just shake all bees directly into a new box, away from the original hive? Or is it important to let them walk on a ramp and make a cluster before shaking them (or letting them walk) into the new box?


I've done it both ways and prefer the ramp and then shake to where I want them or position it in such a fashion to allow them right into the new box while clustering. Truthfully it probably doesn't matter, but shaking and letting them cluster seems to do the trick well.


----------



## Kuro (Jun 18, 2015)

thanks I'll try the ramp method next time my bees attempt to swarm. enjoyed your fast motion youtube taranov video.


----------

