# NUC sales, medium vs deep



## brac (Sep 30, 2009)

So I am gonna be selling about 150 nucs this coming spring. I really like the idea of keeping all medium boxes (I already use only 8 frame), but I am concerned haveing only med nucs will hamper sales. Has anybody switched over, and if so how did it effect sales? Does anybody sell both, and which do you get more call for? Finally when I sell nuc's I have been selling 4 deep frames, how many medium frames are usally in a nuc?


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## habutti (Apr 20, 2008)

How many frames you offer is what should be in a medium nuc. Some folks offer 5 frame nucs most of the time others 4 frame.


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## dtompsett (Feb 2, 2010)

One question is what do your customers want/use? Are people in your area using medium brood boxes, or deeps? 

4-frame medium nuc seems awefully small to me.


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## KevinR (Apr 30, 2010)

Personally, I'd rather have medium frames. I know there seems to be a pretty good following on that front.

My biggest concern would be the price. If you buy a 5 frame deep nuc, that would be roughly the same as a 6.5-7 frame deep nuc.

So if your charging the same price for a 5 frame medium that other people charge for a 5 frame deep, I'd be less willing to consider it.

G'luck


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## NeonBee (Apr 21, 2010)

Consider surface area. A 4 Frame Deep nuc would require a 6 frame medium to be comparable in surface area. A 5 frame nuc would need about 7 to 8 medium frames to be comparable. 

Mediums would incur a higher material and production cost. The majority of the people I know prefer deep frames for brood, but more and more are shifting over to exclusively medium boxes. So to fulfill the client need expectation I would initially suggest you supply both sizes until enough sales/demand data was collected to determine demand size percentiles. 

Another consideration is nuc transport. Most people have or can easily order deep frame nucs. They are a standard.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

I made some 5 medium frame splits this spring - 3 brood, 2 stores + laying queen - and they took off great. 

I think they would be great for hobbyists - especially if they are less expensive than 5 frame deeps nucs. 

Maybe you could take orders and make them up with extra frames - with a per frame price option - if some people wanted. 

I'd like to know how it works out.


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## swarm_trapper (Jun 19, 2003)

why not sell a med box of bees maybe 5 fr of brood and a frame or two of honey. Then sell the med for about 70-90$ then any one can take it and either put their deep on top of it or run just meds. i know a few guys who sell bees like this, nice little unit to buy. 

Probably could make them up a month early maybe 3fr brood and a fr of honey and let them grow some that way you can make more of them.


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## stripstrike (Aug 29, 2009)

I bought two medium frame nucs locally this year. Each were 8 frame, although one was clearly stronger than another. Based on my limited knowledge, they seemed to be about the same price as a five frame deep nuc would have been. I had limited options for medium nucs around here, and would have traveled to get them (maybe not to Dexter though)


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

There is a good market for mediums, but if you're serious about nucs, I'd sell both... there is a market for both...


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## Monie (Feb 13, 2008)

I had some interest in my mediums, this year. I lost out on a couple thousand dollars, because I didn't have enough to go around. :doh: At any rate, I think that offering both is the way to go. I plan to charge a little more for the deeps.


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## LT (Aug 17, 2006)

5 frame medium same as 4 frame nuc. My thoughts


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Five medium frames cost about the same as five deep frames. A five frame medium nuc box costs the same as a five frame deep nuc box...


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## Monie (Feb 13, 2008)

LT said:


> 5 frame medium same as 4 frame nuc. My thoughts


I assume you are talking bee-wise, not equipment-wise. 

As Michael stated, the equipmet cost is about the same. What's different is the amount of bees.


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## habutti (Apr 20, 2008)

I make both and sell both, mediums and deeps at the same price; it takes me the same amount of work to make either one of them. So I set the price based upon deeps, but if the customer wants mediums that is all that is changing - the frame size not the price.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Maybe a solution could be a 6 frame medium nuc for about the same price as a 5 frame deep nuc. That way even thought the customer is getting fewer bees (probably) it's harder to make an apples to apples comparison. 

If it contained 4 medium frames of brood it would be about equal to 2.5 deep frames of brood. The quality of the nucs would be at least as big a factor as a difference of 1/2 frame of brood.

Of course it would involve custom built nucs.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

I too sell 5-frame medium nucs, and thought about also producing 5-frame deep nucs. But, since I only have one twenty-two frame deep hive and all my other hives are strictly mediums, it seemed much more practical to focus on producing medium nucs. I have sold medium nucs to customers who had me install them into their deep supers - this seemed to work just fine. Much easier than installing deep frames in medium supers.

I sell nucs as starter colonies and believe my prices are competitive, but I don't worry about the difference in frame area between deep frames and medium frames. I don't apologize for keeping my bees in all medium supers and growing medium nucs. I focus on having strong healthy nucs that are headed by vigorous young queens, ready to grow into large, productive colonies.

I have had a few customers that insisted on having their nucs shaken into packages and the queens caged. I reluctantly did as my customers requested, and provided them with their "package bees". I reduced the price by only $10, because, even though they are not receiving the frames, combs, and the resources they contain, it is more work to shake the bees into a package (the customers provided their own cages) and cage the queen. I did explain that the colonies would fare better with their five combs of honey, pollen, and brood, but could not convince those customers who had their hearts set on package bees.

When I have them available, customers can always buy additional medium frames/combs of brood or honey/pollen for $10 each. Some do, and some buy frames of brood to boost their own colonies.


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## Stonefly7 (Nov 3, 2005)

Great idea, I had to look far and wide to find med nucs last year. I wish more folks would do that, but as noted, depends on market. I usually make my own, but every few years, I want a new genetic strain.
I would have purchased a truck load, but was lucky to find 30. Paid 75 for a five frame, busting at the seams. Used cardboard travelers for transfer.

I have contacted Weaver's, to see if they would be interested in that market. I will let you know when they reply. Also asked for a fall queen market, as some of us re-queen in the fall.

Kind regards


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## DigitalBishop (Nov 11, 2009)

Joseph Clemens said:


> I have had a few customers that insisted on having their nucs shaken into packages and the queens caged. I reluctantly did as my customers requested, and provided them with their "package bees". I reduced the price by only $10, because, even though they are not receiving the frames, combs, and the resources they contain, it is more work to shake the bees into a package (the customers provided their own cages) and cage the queen. I did explain that the colonies would fare better with their five combs of honey, pollen, and brood, but could not convince those customers who had their hearts set on package bees.


IMHO, those customers would be better off buying a 3lb package with a queen rather than a nuc. I'd take an established nuc over a package any day. I just don't understand why they would do that. If it were me I'd refuse to shake the bees down and lose the money and tell the customer to go pound sand. I know there's another customer out there that would gladly pay the money for the nuc.

Bishop


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## mythomane (Feb 18, 2009)

I wonder how many of these hobby beeks actually have their 5-frame medium nucs survive. That is just too small IMO, especially without drawn comb, and the risks are great if you are a beginner.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

mythomane said:


> I wonder how many of these hobby beeks actually have their 5-frame medium nucs survive. That is just too small IMO, especially without drawn comb, and the risks are great if you are a beginner.


I've started several 5 frame medium nucs this year and they do fine - during the nectar flow they pretty much double in size in a month. One that I started last summer that didn't have a laying queen until Sept 1 - because of usual mishaps - built up to one really full 8 frame medium and over wintered fine. Built up great this spring. Comb is always in limited supply for me at this point.


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## KevinR (Apr 30, 2010)

I believe that mythomane was refering to the people that asked for the medium nucs to be shaken into a package.

I'm really not sure the purpose, unless you were concerned about potential problems with the comb. But then again, maybe the people wanted to force the bees to be foundationless and didn't have the experience to shake the bees themselves.

Depending on the time of the year, location, and queen. I wouldn't expect there to be a problem with the shaken medium surviving. They probably wouldn't get much honey though.


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## DigitalBishop (Nov 11, 2009)

mythomane said:


> I wonder how many of these hobby beeks actually have their 5-frame medium nucs survive. That is just too small IMO, especially without drawn comb, and the risks are great if you are a beginner.


I've caught swarms and had them abscond and die out on me. That's the breaks. Right now I have two five frame nucs that are booming, one of them is nearly ready to be upgraded to a regular 10 frame medium hive. I'd say they're surviving just fine.

Bishop


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## mythomane (Feb 18, 2009)

I am talking about surviving for more than a few months. The best advice I give any new beek is to start with a deep single or larger. Many nucs make it, but many more do not.


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

We sold a few 5 fr medium nucs this year due to customer requests but I am not too sure we will continue. We charged $10 less this year for the mediums but if we do continue we would probably charge _more_ for them than for our standard 5 frame deeps, due to increased management issues.
In general, any time you add variables in nuc production you increase costs. For instance, offering different queen breeds is more complicated than just offering Italians. Complications usually equate to added costs as there is just more to keep track of. Changing the size of the units is another variable added to the mix, meaning additional complications ie costs. 
We run our colonies with a deep on top, medium on the bottom, so we do have brood in the medium boxes in early April to make the nucs up, but it is not as prevalent, nor as accessible as the deep frames of brood, which means more work when making them up. But the main issue we find is keeping the balance of bees, brood and food. There is much less leeway between the bees plugging out the queen, or the bees becoming too light. They take more babysitting than deep nucs. This might not be too much of an issue when dealing with only a few but additional work at a time of year when we are pushing the limits anyway isn't a good thing.
Sheri


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## manfre (Dec 12, 2008)

mythomane said:


> I wonder how many of these hobby beeks actually have their 5-frame medium nucs survive. That is just too small IMO, especially without drawn comb, and the risks are great if you are a beginner.


I started with two 5 frame medium nucs last May. They built up to two boxes each and came out of winter strong. Both hives have been split once this year and I caught a total of 5 swarms from those two hives. I think that it doesn't matter whether the NUC is mediums or deeps. If the queen has good genetics, then they'll do well.


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