# Scheduled first inspection -- inspectors aren't allowed to handle the TBH hive!?



## onesojourner (Jan 9, 2014)

What is it getting inspected for? I have never heard of anything like that.


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## jimsteelejr (Sep 21, 2012)

In Florida the inspector is only looking for one reportable disease-American Foul brood. And I guess now they may be testing for signs of africanazation.Our inspector has always been very helpful. For a new beek they can offer advice and insight. Since the comb is not as securely anchored as it is in hives with full frames they do not want to be responsible for any disasters.


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## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

I am guessing Stephen Cutts called. Stephen is a fourth generation beekeeper. Whether it is Stephen or Ryan, they will also answer any questions you may have at the time so make a list. 
That is the recommendation for all my inspectors for foundationless and frameless hives. We had too many incidents of comb dropping off, possibly killing the queen. The Florida Statute actually says they have to be in movable frames, but we accomodate varying hive styles to the best of our ability.


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## PatBeek (Jan 13, 2012)

.

They may also try to get you to re-queen if you have any feral queens from cut-outs.

Don't let them pressure you into doing this. They can't legally make anyone do it unless
it's a very aggressive and/or Africanized hive. 

We need more diversity and health in the gene pool. Their monopoly on genetics and implementation of toxic treatments are only perpetuating the collapse and mite problems.

.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

The inspector inspects mine every year without me there...


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## msscha (Jan 4, 2014)

AmericasBeekeeper said:


> I am guessing Stephen Cutts called. Stephen is a fourth generation beekeeper. Whether it is Stephen or Ryan, they will also answer any questions you may have at the time so make a list.
> That is the recommendation for all my inspectors for foundationless and frameless hives. We had too many incidents of comb dropping off, possibly killing the queen. The Florida Statute actually says they have to be in movable frames, but we accomodate varying hive styles to the best of our ability.


I spoke with Ryan. He was very helpful -- I am actually excited for the inspection!


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## msscha (Jan 4, 2014)

PatBeek said:


> .
> 
> They may also try to get you to re-queen if you have any feral queens from cut-outs.
> 
> ...


Since it's a brand new package, there hasn't been time for local breeding to occur. He did ask where the package came from, and did ask about the nature of the bees so far. I've had negative reactions from local beekeepers about my choice of apiaries b/c they are located in Texas, where ABs have been found. And certainly the package I have shows some mixed coloring, from very light golden bees to some with darker bodies. It's too soon for brood, so I won't know about that. And the bees certainly seem "gentle" if that word means that the bees generally seem unconcerned about my presence -- I don't get bunches buzzing around my head or anything, nor do they land on my gloves and sting.


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## msscha (Jan 4, 2014)

Michael Bush said:


> The inspector inspects mine every year without me there...


I have to be there b/c he's not allowed to remove bars. But he did assure me that he could talk me through the process. I have every intention of practicing that skill starting this weekend!


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## txbeek (May 21, 2013)

All of my hives are from feral swarms from South Texas, and I haven't gotten an Africanized swarm or colony cutout yet. Some are more aggressive at times because of the weather and lack of a flow, but my experience suggests the AHB threat in Texas is a bit exaggerated, at least in my area. I have encountered 2 coloneys that based on aggression were Africanized, but that is the exception. So I would not be concerned about the AHB threat from your package if it came from a reputable apiary.


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## fruitveggirl (Mar 8, 2013)

msscha said:


> I have to be there b/c he's not allowed to remove bars. But he did assure me that he could talk me through the process. I have every intention of practicing that skill starting this weekend!


I'm sure your inspection will be fine. Meeting your inspector is a good thing because he is a wealth of info for you! I've found that my state inspector is a very nice man, and he's not "out to get" anyone at all. 

When I remove my bars, I use a very long, thin serrated knife. I first cut any attachments to the walls first (slicing upward so that I don't put any downward pressure on the comb). Then I cut between bars to make sure that they're not stuck together. Finally, I slide over the bar I want to inspect in order to separate it from its neighbor. It's not hard to do, but I find that being gentle and very careful are helpful. 

Closing them up is a little trickier because you don't want to squash your bees. For me, I find that I'm able to do it best if I set the bar down right next to its neighbor in the spot its suppose to sit. I do not slide the bars together because that would just squash my girls. Also, I found it hard to put the entire bar down at once, so I put one end down first as I gently lower the rest of the bar (The bar is at a very slight angle as I do this), giving the bees time to move out of the way. Sometimes, I have to jiggle gently to get them to move, but again, it's not hard. It just takes a gentle touch.

I'm sure that you'll develop a method and rhythm that works best for you, though.

Good luck & have fun!!!


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## blist (Jun 15, 2010)

I use the bounce method...sliding the bars together and bouncing it on the bees in the way gently until they move...I also don't worry if there are a few casualties when inspecting a hive.


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## AugustC (Aug 7, 2013)

They probably can't handle them in case they break the comb from the topbar.
I haven't had an Inspector Call yet but have spoken with my local inspector and he requested I have a stand available.
A basic stand to hold the comb is very easy to make might enable he to get a clearly look of things.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

AmericasBeekeeper said:


> I am guessing Stephen Cutts called. Stephen is a fourth generation beekeeper. Whether it is Stephen or Ryan, they will also answer any questions you may have at the time so make a list.
> That is the recommendation for all my inspectors for foundationless and frameless hives. We had too many incidents of comb dropping off, possibly killing the queen. The Florida Statute actually says they have to be in movable frames, but we accomodate varying hive styles to the best of our ability.


So does that mean that in effect TBH beekeepers are exempt from inspection for diseases and pests of honeybees in FL? If Log Gum beekeeping or Skep beekeeping became popular, or even if only one person kept bees that way, what would FL's reaction be? Would FL demand that the beekeeper keep bees as stated in the law?


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## msscha (Jan 4, 2014)

txbeek said:


> All of my hives are from feral swarms from South Texas, and I haven't gotten an Africanized swarm or colony cutout yet.
> So I would not be concerned about the AHB threat from your package if it came from a reputable apiary.


Thank you for the reassurances. So far, my bees don't seem aggressive, but I don't have anything to compare them to, either. I'm finding the description "gentle" difficult to define, or perhaps, I just had the wrong picture in my head of what it means (something more interactive?). In general, the bees don't seem particularly interested in me when I am at the hive, which I am thinking is a good sign of the kind of temperament we're hoping for!


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## msscha (Jan 4, 2014)

No, we have rules to follow, especially regarding movable (hence inspectable) frames. As for non-movable frames, I guess the state response would depend on whether the state found out. I instigated the inspection -- our inspectors have a close relationship to ag extension and the University of Florida's bee research program, all of whom seem to be very good people to know. Personally, I see no reason not to work within state law.


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## msscha (Jan 4, 2014)

AugustC said:


> T
> I haven't had an Inspector Call yet but have spoken with my local inspector and he requested I have a stand available.
> A basic stand to hold the comb is very easy to make might enable he to get a clearly look of things.


That is my plan for me, too -- to make a stand. I'm following one of Phil Chandler's plans and using wire coat hangers.


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## Top Bar (Jan 9, 2014)

Would you please post a link to the plans for a stand?


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## msscha (Jan 4, 2014)

Top Bar said:


> Would you please post a link to the plans for a stand?


Sure -- I just got it from his pdf -- http://aabees.org/ebooks/how_to_build_a_top_bar_hive.pdf, page 41. The image from that page is pasted below. I am not going to make the whole hinged base -- just the basic stand. I was also thinking of seeing if I could somehow fit the stand so that the bar would hang just above its place in the hive -- sort of lifting it straight up and holding it in place. That may be beyond my abilities (given that the bees have found additional entrances in the body of the hive, I don't hold out much hope for leaving my day job for carpentry).


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## Top Bar (Jan 9, 2014)

Thanks!


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## msscha (Jan 4, 2014)

As it turned out, the wire from coat hangers was not strong enough to hold so I just made the stand out of scrap wood. The base piece is from a 6" board, the arms are from old 2x4"s and the cross piece at top is from a 1x1. I decided to add the top piece just to ensure that in my nervousness in handling the bars, I wouldn't accidentally knock one off.

Inspection stand









In use! (and showing crosscombing)


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## Top Bar (Jan 9, 2014)

Nice! I'm going to try to make something like this but I want to be able to put 2 - 3 bars on it at the same time.


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## msscha (Jan 4, 2014)

Top Bar said:


> Nice! I'm going to try to make something like this but I want to be able to put 2 - 3 bars on it at the same time.


I think that's a good plan -- I could comfortably fit two bars if I didn't have the back stop. We have a miter saw that I really like using, but I don't like the circular saw, so I went with stuff that was pretty much already cut and just needed trimming. I look forward to seeing your design!


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

We may have gotten a little off topic, but I have been using a hanging file folder frame to hold my bars while I photograph them.


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## msscha (Jan 4, 2014)

ruthiesbees said:


> We may have gotten a little off topic, but I have been using a hanging file folder frame to hold my bars while I photograph them.
> 
> It's not off topic since the idea of an inspection stand was brought up in the context of inspecting TBHs! And the idea of a hanging file folder is awesome! (Now, if I can only get some straight comb, all will be well!!) Do you have problems with wobbling? I couldn't get coat hangar wire to sit securely, but the file folder frame looks much sturdier. Probably easier to carry than lugging about yet another piece of wood!


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

Not really wobbling as I have screwed them down tight so they don't adjust. I just need to clip off the extra on the ends. I am running out of room since my hive is growing in the number of drawn bars, so my space on the top has become more limited. I really just want to find some waterproof, light weight table that I can bring out there with me. I have too much stuff coming out with me now as it is, but I suppose if I sprayed the wires with Rustoleum, I could stash it in the bushes. I was trying to come up with some type of drop-leaf design on the hive stand, but I never found something that suited me.


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## msscha (Jan 4, 2014)

ruthiesbees said:


> I really just want to find some waterproof, light weight table that I can bring out there with me. I have too much stuff coming out with me now as it is,


I only have one hive and I can see that happening. Mine is still so small that I can use the unused portion as a table, but I've already wondered about having a portable workspace or just a plastic table from walmart!


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

I was only 1 TBH last year, and then it was only half full. So the other side worked great for a "table". Now in my 2nd year, I am at 3 hives (watch out, it's addictive) which are spread out in the yard. So yes, we really should develop some sort of table on wheels that will hold all the other goodies that we need at the beehive. Maybe a modified golf caddie stand with table attached. I'm sure we could make a fortune


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## msscha (Jan 4, 2014)

Well, first official inspection happened this afternoon. The young man, Ryan, was very nice, and patient, too, given that our house isn't always easy to find. I only had to pull out a couple of combs, so didn't need to break up the cross-combed brood nest. That is clearly my next project, along with feeding them more (his main suggestion, after also mentioning maintenance treating for varroa as something to seriously think about). The silly bar I made with the hardwire cloth had not a single speck of honeycomb on it, so it was removed. Ryan suggested making bars per Wyatt Magnum's technique (using a strip of plastic foundation to help establish straight bars), and I will try that. Once there are enough straight bars, they can be used in other hives (when the time comes).

I was pretty excited during the inspection because we saw two very cool things: a truly new bee just emerging and the queen! I didn't get a picture of the queen, but I did get the new bee making her way out -- yay!









It's still seems to me as though the colony is fairly small, though they seem healthy. I will feed more rigorously...Ryan said there wasn't a lot of forage right now, and while the native bees/butterflies are seriously munching what I planted (especially the gaillardia), the honey bees are not. I've got seed for them, and need to get it into the ground. Fall is a great time for bees out here, so I may be limping through the summer.


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## Colleen O. (Jun 5, 2012)

I'm glad your inspection went well. Sorry the hardware cloth bar didn't work out!

Your brood comb in the picture looks great, isn't new life amazing?

I've seen the occasional bee on my galliardia but it doesn't appear to be their first choice. Generally they are all over my May Night Sage but right now Tulip Poplar and Black Locust are blooming and I haven't seen a single bee on the sage.


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## msscha (Jan 4, 2014)

Colleen O. said:


> I've seen the occasional bee on my galliardia but it doesn't appear to be their first choice. Generally they are all over my May Night Sage but right now Tulip Poplar and Black Locust are blooming and I haven't seen a single bee on the sage.


Yes, this has been really surprising since the natives are going crazy over it! I have a neat photo of a sweat bee and horace duskywing both on the same blossom, the bee coated in pollen, but nary a honey bee. So, my planting strategies are switching to "honey bee" and not merely "bee". I ordered a pound of clover today (one especially attractive to honey bees, but cannot remember the type), and I've got borage and sainfoin to plant, too. The inspector confirmed what I suspected: fall is an awesome time to forage here, as it spring, but late spring to summer can be sparse. I will keep feeding for a while yet!


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## JakeDatc (Apr 19, 2010)

Looks like your bars might be too wide for the brood area? looks like they made 2 for that bar with a smaller space in between.


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## msscha (Jan 4, 2014)

JakeDatc said:


> Looks like your bars might be too wide for the brood area? looks like they made 2 for that bar with a smaller space in between.


The brood area bars were cut to be 1 1/4", though they range from 1 1/16-1 1/4. My table saw arrived today, so I'll be cutting new bars that are more even. For whatever reason (perhaps not flat, perhaps because of spacing), the comb ended up crossed. Now that more of the first batch of brood are hatching, I don't feel so bad about taking care of the bars. I won't go all the way into the messed-up brood area -- I'll follow Michael Bush's directions and get one straight comb built, then use that as a guide, placing smaller pieces of built comb between the straight combs so that they are finished evenly. It's not unusual for bees to build the comb from different spots on the same bar, but I look forward to having a hive full of straight comb that makes inspecting easier!


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## Colleen O. (Jun 5, 2012)

I have a new style of bar in my hybrid KTBH/Lang/Warre nuc and had a cross comb incident with it. I had cut comb off two of the old bars and tied it to the new ones using gardening tape and had some movement on the far end. Tried to fix it and had the comb collapsed on me. It was packed full of nectar so too heavy. I ended up moving one down from the super that was properly attached and tying the nectar filled comb into a frame and putting it in the super. Yes, cross comb is NO fun.

Last year during the summer dearth my bees found my neighbors cleome. I was on a walk and could hear the hum from the street. Every bee in the neighborhood must have been working it. Must have bothered the neighbor because it was all cut down a week later. This year I am trying to plant some myself. I wonder if the honey from it is any good though because the plants smell like skunk to me. Maybe like goldenrod it is good cured.


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## JakeDatc (Apr 19, 2010)

msscha said:


> The brood area bars were cut to be 1 1/4", though they range from 1 1/16-1 1/4. My table saw arrived today, so I'll be cutting new bars that are more even. For whatever reason (perhaps not flat, perhaps because of spacing), the comb ended up crossed. Now that more of the first batch of brood are hatching, I don't feel so bad about taking care of the bars. I won't go all the way into the messed-up brood area -- I'll follow Michael Bush's directions and get one straight comb built, then use that as a guide, placing smaller pieces of built comb between the straight combs so that they are finished evenly. It's not unusual for bees to build the comb from different spots on the same bar, but I look forward to having a hive full of straight comb that makes inspecting easier!


hmm.. guess you'll have to teach them how it is supposed to go  

my gf looked at her/our hive yesterday and said they had built some comb up from the bottom haha silly bees. the hive is a few years old so most of it is good.. they just decided they wanted some basement honey apparently. she's going to pull it once it gets capped. Hoping to get a swarm off them to put at my place.


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