# SHB & Wax Moth Larvae



## Rohe Bee Ranch (Feb 12, 2008)

I hope someone finds a way to stop these critters or honey bees and beekeeping in the US and is truly in jeopardy.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

I thought we just had to have sbb's with sticky trays and healthy bees. wow. that is a whole lot of beetles.


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## c10250 (Feb 3, 2009)

SHB that bad in Illinois??? Have these hives been there through a winter, or were they put there this year from somewhere else? My guess is that these hives came from somewhere down south and the SHB came with.


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

SHB overwinter within the cluster and are fed and heated by the bees... they are actually active a few degrees lower than what it takes for bees to go dormant... Yes, areas where SHB can reproduce all year long of will of course have to fight them harder... But if bees can make it through winter, SHB surely can too... Everyone needs to be prepared to fight SHB, because you WILL face them sooner or later...


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## acb's (Apr 14, 2007)

c10250, 
This photo came from one of my hives from last year that was placed in a new yard last fall with 5 other hives. There are no managed hives within 3-4 miles of this yard. I do get calls for swarms from this area each year, so I know there are ferals near. I had not noticed any SHB in any of our approx. 60 hives last year. Although it was a much better year and my hives were much stronger last year, so it could be that the hives just managed them better and I didn't see them. I have noticed SHB in 2 other new yards that are within 1-2 miles of other managed colonies at least 20 miles from where this photo was taken. No hives have been moved between yards this year.

This year we had too much rain during buildup season. Last year I had some 3 deep hives, this year had some that have lucky to remain strong in 2 deeps. Of the few hives that swarmed this spring, most were not able to recover well because of the weather. I have posted a video of SHB in my observation hive that is open to the outside here at home. I had not noticed SHB here in my home yard before this year. From what I've read the conditions have been favorable this year for their increased presence in this area. I'm going to have to adjust.
Arvin


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

I am guessing the shb like forests and rainy conditions. While I've seen a few, and I am certainly "down south" despite our cold winters, I haven't seen that many, possibly due to the drought.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Dr. Russsell- since they are now a fact of life (or soon will be) what practical strategies can we use to manage their impact? Other than the obvious" keep hives strong" ? 

I used full bb oil traps last year, and while I caught a lot of beetles and larva it didn't even come close to eliminating them, and wasn't really very practical- except maybe on a hobyist level.


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## Rohe Bee Ranch (Feb 12, 2008)

Once you have beetles in your area they never leave, they just seem to get worse and worse. I've had 2 hives slimed so far this year. What I think happens is a hive swarms, the new queen doesn't come back, the reduced number of bees get overwhelmed by the beetles and just leave, and then the horror really begins. Seems to all happen in just a couple of weeks. To combat this I've have been keeping my bees a little more crowded then in the past (therefore keeping them stronger and more able to harrass the SHB), keeping hives in more sunlight, and using Beetle Barns with Combat Roach Bait (after removing all supers). I have also purchased a new entrance device that should prevent or at least reduce the number of SHB from entering the hive. I'm waiting to see how all of this works...if it does at all.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Does a robber screen confuse the beetles any or do they figure it out in quick order? Of course this would only affect those entering by the main entrance...

Ed


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

David LaFerney said:


> Dr. Russsell- since they are now a fact of life (or soon will be) what practical strategies can we use to manage their impact? Other than the obvious" keep hives strong" ?
> 
> I used full bb oil traps last year, and while I caught a lot of beetles and larva it didn't even come close to eliminating them, and wasn't really very practical- except maybe on a hobyist level.


It's tough David. Everyone has had to adjust... In our operation for instance, we have had to adjust timing, change equipment to meet those adjustments, add on more staff to cover the extra work load, add production of traps and baits to our routines, and add a monthly (and sometimes twice per month) trip to every single hive to exchange every single trap... bee keeping has certainly changed with the invasion of these creatures, and the rising costs of nucs, packages, queens, etc, are reflectant of that... Where we used to be able to just set a single brood frame in a 5 frame nuc and give it a cell to let it build up to overwinter, we now have to pull a very strong nuc and get into every single one every month to exchange traps... it takes about 8 times as much work and resouces to produce the things that we do today as opposed to pre-beetle days...

GIVE ME BACK THOSE MITES! lol.


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

Wish it would Ed, but robber screens just give them something to hide against to keep the girls from getting a good grip on them...

On a brighter note though... The Tigers are chewing the beetles up with ease... and the Sunkists are starting to get the idea as well...:applause:


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

I've noticed with the SunKist that I have, that they frequently pounce on and kill flies. The bees I've been keeping until now, have been seen doing that, but only rarely. The SunKist attack and kill many more flies, regularly. There aren't SHB here yet, but if and when they arrive I'm hoping the SunKist treat them like they're treating the flies now.


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

lol. Have you seen what they do to yellow jackets yet? I believe that they are adapting to their exposure to shb... the Tigers are a mix of the stocks and lineages that have shown the quickest and most effective adaptation to resist shb... the flies may just be a case of mistaken identity... but they have indeed always been very protective of their nests against any other insects...


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

Though I am very familiar with several different wasp species, including yellow jackets (from various other locations I've been), I am fortunate by their absence at my present location, so I haven't had the chance to see the SunKist in action against yellow jacket wasps. If sometime I am able to obtain a mating yard somewhere at a slightly higher elevation in this area, I should get the opportunity to witness this interaction.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Having stated "but they have indeed always been very protective of their nests against any other insects... " what can you tell us about their protectiveness of their nests against humans?

In regards to the robber screen you mentioned that it would just give the beetles "to hide against to keep the girls from getting a good grip on them". What do the honey bees do once they do get a grip on the beetles?

Glad to hear the Tigers and Sunkists are showing some beetle resistance.

I'm telling you, what I'm seeing reported about the destructiveness of the beetles keeps me wondering if I oughta pick some other hobby to get in to...like maybe raising sea monkeys or something......nah, I'll stick with the honey bees. 

Ed


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

I always tell people that sunkists are a commercial bee, so they can indeed be protective of their nests against humans, but they only tend to seem aggressive when their colonies are at very high population numbers... they are gentle bees, but having more population dies mean having more guards at any given time...

Joe, how would you rate them as far as gentleness goes?

On the way that they handle shb... the bees grab them and roll to their sides while trying to chew on the beetles head or legs, and other bees jump in chewing and stinging the belly of the beetle.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

A little bit t:

The SunKist queens I obtained from Russell Apiaries are each in individual 5-frame deep nuc boxes with five medium frames and a 5-frame medium super, also of five medium frames (10 medium frames - total). They have built a little comb beneath some of the frames in the bottom, deep boxes. They each have an additional, empty 5-frame medium super to allow space for feeding (as needed). They aren't runny, though a few drop from the frames, every so often. As I move around the SunKist colonies I notice that they pay close attention to my presence, every so often a guard will rush to my hand (fingers) as it quickly moves past them. When I'm manipulating combs, most of the workers quietly go about their business as if I wasn't there, the queen included (she usually continues inspecting cells, and laying, as if she were still safely in her hive). These MQ nucs have become very populous, and occasionally I get a few stings from them. So I must say they aren't as gentle as the Starline or Midnite bees I kept when I was a young boy, but I can certainly carry a comb into the house (for show and tell), once in awhile, without worrying that any will leave the comb and sting my wife (I've done this on about a half dozen occasions without any issues).

On a scale of 1 to 10, with ten being least likely to get stung and one being hyper-defensive, I'd rate them an eight.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Russell and Joseph, thanks for those posts...it helps me understand a bit more about how the bees are trying to defend against the shb and other pests. Joseph, that was a very good report on the characteristics of your Sunkists...highly observant It would be nice if these posts were in a separate thread....

My apologies to the OP for taking this off topic.

Ed


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

Thats an excellent description. Of course, under stress, they may get more protective or "cranky"... but for the most part, Joe's experience with them is pretty much the norm.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

rrussell6870 said:


> Wish it would Ed, but robber screens just give them something to hide against to keep the girls from getting a good grip on them...


My robber screen doesn't give a beetle passage or much room to hide. It's windowscreen, not 1/8th, and I painted all of the wood white. I've only seen one shb on my sticky in the last couple of weeks.


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

Interesting... have you changed the sticky out to make sure its still tacky enough to capture shb that touch it?

Even with the window screen, the concern is that the beetles will just enter the hive through the same passage as the bees... they are not limited in their landings like robber bees are, because the guards to not detect the shb moving in the air as they approach... but if its working, keep it up. Anything that helps is a step in the right direction... you couldn't you robber screens all season long and still have a good harvest, but if it seems to be working during the dearth, its worth a shot.

What I meant by a place to hide, was any 90degree angle, such as a corner or where the landing board meets the frame of the robber screen... they will press into the corners so that the bees can't get a grip on both sides of them at once.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

I was so unimpressed with my shb traps that they are sitting on the front porch, in case I think of something those little plastic parts are good for. Maybe holding up a feed bucket? I still love my Country Rubes SBB with its sticky board, which I check and clean, and re-sticky with olive oil in the evening or very early morning, almost every day. I went through every frame in the hive yesterday, and the bees are adding wax, storing sugar water, the queen is laying again, the only pest I saw was a moth, who is now deceased.

My point about the aluminum windowscreen is that it is fine enough that the beetle can try to hide against it, but can't wiggle out of the bee's hold, so the bee can kill the beetle. With 1/8th, the beetle could wedge into the screen, preventing a bee from getting a good bite. 

Those shb and moths and mites really bug the bees... My bees are much happier now.

Gypsi


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Corners, corners, corners....shb "safe rooms". Why not do away with most of the corners? It would probably be cost/labor prohibitive for a commercial or sideliner person, but for a hobbiest it wouldn't be beyond doing. I would think this would have to be done to "new" equipment.....used and propolized equipment might have an issue with the caulking (get this) sticking??? :scratch:

Simply running a small bead of caulking along the inside corners of the boxes, tops, bottom boards (and any other corners) and smoothing the caulking down with a wet finger would remove a lot of the shb preferred hiding spots by rounding out those corners. Next would be the telescoping covers...caulk the all the corners. The bead of caulk would have to be large enough to "round out" the corner but not so much that it interfered with functionality of the equipment. It seems bee space between the corners of the boxes and the frames wouldn't be an issue. 

Gypsi, it seems that the bees are kind of using the screen wire as a traction pad to hold the beetles against. 

I've toyed with the idea of building a screened in box to house a screened bottom in using #8 (would love to use #7 but...) as the screen in the actual bottom board and regular window screening to enclose it. This would allow ventilation in but would prevent any bug entry from the bottom. That's down the road, though.

Thanks for mentioned the robber screen's impact on honey production during the flow, Robert. I'll keep this in mind if I try the robber screen. That makes sense being as that is a congested traffic time at the hive and the robber screen adds crooks and turns to the entry path.

Ed


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## virginiawolf (Feb 18, 2011)

Does a slatted rack give the bees a chance to keep the beetles down on the bottom board? Was curious if the slatted rack helps the bees have the high ground. Looking today it probably doesn't make a difference without a trap:scratch: They're Annoying!!! Wolf


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