# Randy Oliver Article about Hazards of Neonicotinoids vs Other Pesticides



## BlueDiamond

What’s killing the bees? Pesticides, but not the ones you think By Randy Oliver,Beekeeper, Scientist, Writer
http://dailycaller.com/2013/09/02/whats-killing-the-bees-pesticides/#ixzz2duf6JKzu


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## squarepeg

straight up common sense, but not sensationalist enough for prime time.


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## WLC

From Wikipedia:

"The Daily Caller is a news and opinion website based in Washington, D.C., United States. Founded by Tucker Carlson, a libertarian conservative political pundit, and Neil Patel, former adviser to former Vice President Dick Cheney, The Daily Caller launched on January 11, 2010."

>The Daily Caller also regularly publishes articles that cast doubt on global warming <


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## JStinson

WLC said:


> The Daily Caller is a news and opinion website based in Washington, D.C., United States. Founded by Tucker Carlson, a libertarian conservative political pundit, and Neil Patel, former adviser to former Vice President Dick Cheney, The Daily Caller launched on January 11, 2010."


Does this somehow disprove Randy's article?



WLC said:


> >The Daily Caller also regularly publishes articles that cast doubt on global warming <


Oh sweet mercy. Tar and feather them in the streets for such subversiveness!

Here again, as with neonics, global warming is a scientific _consensus_..._It is not fact_. There IS a difference. 

:ws:


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## Mbeck

WLC said:


> From Wikipedia:
> 
> "The Daily Caller is a news and opinion website based in Washington, D.C., United States. Founded by Tucker Carlson, a libertarian conservative political pundit, and Neil Patel, former adviser to former Vice President Dick Cheney, The Daily Caller launched on January 11, 2010."
> 
> >The Daily Caller also regularly publishes articles that cast doubt on global warming <


Wasn't Wikipedia stared by an Ayn Rand fan boy and hosted on his servers originally designed to sell advertising though porn and promoted by adult film stars?
You need to be careful where you get your information!


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## Rader Sidetrack

WLC has his _own _agenda ....


WLC said:


> I'm both scientist *and social activist * ...


:gh:


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## WLC

I'd characterize 'The Daily Caller' and author, Jon Entine, who featured Randy in a 'Forbes' piece, as having close organizational ties to the Bush Administration.

I'm picking up on the 'NeoCon' vibe.

I think that it's important to know that when reading a piece on a controversial subject.

Why should I read a political piece with a neocon spin to it?

From a beekeeper yet?


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## jeffnmo

WLC; Is this a political posting for you or about bees? We have to be open to all points of view to solve problems.


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## D Coates

jeffnmo said:


> WLC; Is this a political posting for you or about bees? We have to be open to all points of view to solve problems.


No... We're all supposed to absorb the political and social activism that WLC spews. Those who don't are obvious "neocon's", Big-Chem shills, or too stupid to understand his self professed brilliance.

However, he gets to immediately discount anything that doesn't follow his agenda instead reviewing the actual findings.

The financial difference between what someone like this is actually worth versus what they think they are worth is easily in the millions.


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## beemandan

If you folks would stop quoting his (wlc) posts...I wouldn't have to read them at all. The ignore option is my friend....now if I can only get it to ignore those quotes....sigh.


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## WLC

I'm not going to grant scientific credibility to anything appearing on a site that also calls global warming a myth.

I support the scientific consensus. Not some Neo-Conservative, revisionist agenda.

Just say 'No' to 'Junk Science' and its proponents.


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## Rader Sidetrack

WLC said:


> I'm not going to grant scientific credibility to anything appearing ....


Good of you to ensure that only closely vetted scientific information meeting your highest standards is granted credibility of the WLC _seal of approval_. After all, what with you being a widely recognized, high profile, public persona, and all ..... the public might get mislead.


Oh wait .... :doh:


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## gmcharlie

WLC said:


> I support the scientific consensus. Not some Neo-Conservative, revisionist agenda.
> 
> J




Only a fool... consensus used to be the world was flat. sun orbited earth, and so on... Science is FACTS not a bunch of opinions... FYI you might look at the satellite temp trends from NOA which shows COOLING for the last 8 years.....


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## sqkcrk

D Coates said:


> However, he gets to immediately discount anything that doesn't follow his agenda instead reviewing the actual findings.
> 
> The financial difference between what someone like this is actually worth versus what they think they are worth is easily in the millions.


Do you find yourself frustrated after reading WLC's comments? Do you feel uncomfortable doing so? Do you read his comments anyway?

If you do what you have always done you will experience what you have always experienced. That's what I used to do. And it often brought out in me things I did not like. So, I no longer read WLC's comments and I am a better person for it. We each have an Ignore List. Whether we use it or not is up to each of us.


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## sqkcrk

beemandan said:


> If you folks would stop quoting his (wlc) posts...I wouldn't have to read them at all. The ignore option is my friend....now if I can only get it to ignore those quotes....sigh.


Yeah, I asked Barry about that. I guess it's beyond the abilities of the program or something.


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## WLC

I do read the scientific literature, and I've kept current enought to say that neonics have been shown to be a contributing factor to Honeybee declines.

It makes no sense whatsoever to imply otherwise.

I prefer to get my information from a primary, peer reviewed, source rather than elsewhere.

It cuts out the middleman and any bias.

What you're linking to simply isn't mainstream science by any stretch of the imagination.

I'd rather read about cell phones and the Earth's changing magnetic field as a cause for Honeybee decline on a different 'fringe' site. I'd find it to be far more amusing.


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## WLC

What's funny is that most of the above usual suspects are on my ignore list as well.

It's like trying to avoid the smell from a crew asphalting the road.

Nothing seems to help.

P.U.


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## khicks12

WLC said:


> I do read the scientific literature, and I've kept current enought to say that neonics have been shown to be a contributing factor to Honeybee declines.
> 
> WLC - I'd be interested in reading this, if you can provide a reference. Thanks.


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## Rader Sidetrack

WLC said:


> I'd rather read about cell phones and the Earth's changing magnetic field as a cause for Honeybee decline ...


Here you go:
http://www.earthcalm.com/emf-dangers-2/are-cell-phones-killing-bees/

Please don't spend _too _much time on the _Earthcalm _site. After all, we'd all miss your wisdom here ....
:gh:


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## sqkcrk

Rader, is it a black hole? Is that why you warn him?


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr

sqkcrk.... This thread was so interesting that I decided to go back and read about Ley Lines, Maybe that's it..

Maybe we should just blame Bush for CCD.

cchoganjr


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## WLC

The latest study from Alex Lu (Harvard) is due out this month.

He's Randy's 'nemesis'.

:applause:


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## sqkcrk

Michael, George HW, or George W?


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr

"W" He gets blamed for everything else. Why should this be different?

cchoganjr


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## WLC

I've seen Randy post on Monsanto. I've seen him featured in a Forbes column.

However, I've never seen him post on such a transparently partisan site like 'The Daily Caller'.

It's like getting pregnant. You can't be just a little bit Neo-Conservative.

The 'bump' is simply too big to hide anymore.

Whoever did this to Randy is going to have to marry him. 

'Dubya' is the one.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr

WLC... Does everyone who posts on a partisan site, have to believe everything that is on that partisan site. How does that work.

cchoganjr


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## WLC

Cleo:

In politics, you dance with the one who brung ya.

All kidding aside, he has to be far more selective in where he publishes, and he has to be selective in giving interviews.

My thoughts are that he's lost control over his own message.

As a longtime politician once asked me, "Are you sure they're your friends?"

WLC.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr

WLC said:


> In politics, you dance with the one who brung ya..


WLC... I would respectfully disagree with that statement, as it applies to the article at hand.. 

Any time you are writing about a subject, should you only preach to your membership. No, you should seek out those with differing opinions and try to convince them. You get a larger and more diverse audience when you publish in journals who fundamentally disagree with you. 

No accomplished author would ever consent to only being published in journals where everyone agrees with him. If so, only a very few would even bother to read it, even fewer would challenge any findings or conclusions. 

In scientific studies not only the content or conclusions, should be challenged, but, methodology and control. More importantly, can the results be duplicated. I would encourage everyone to read every article with an open mind, then start sorting. Never attack some author simply because the work was published in a certain forum, or, because that forum has an unrelated stand or opinion that you disagree with. 

cchoganjr


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## mac

There is a TED u-tube presentation from Marla Spivak ya all should check out she nails it. Spot on. Randy’s science is a bit thin really sounds like a self promoting high school paper. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY7iATJVCso


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## Michael Bush

>Maybe we should just blame Bush for CCD.

Why do I get blamed for everything!?


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## mac

Michael Bush said:


> >Maybe we should just blame Bush for CCD.
> 
> Why do I get blamed for everything!?


 Love your book Michael


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## BlueDiamond

mac said:


> Randy’s science is a bit thin really sounds like a self promoting high school paper. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY7iATJVCso


If you find Randy's Science flawed then the professional response is to intellectually challenge that Science instead of disparaging the messenger. Example: I found the Science in Marla Spivak's TED presentation to be unbalanced because it failed to mention the number of honeybee colonies in the USA has actually been steady for 20 years and growing in recent years and that most beekeepers themselves do not forsee a rapidly approaching "tipping point" where the nations food supply is threatened. And with regard to the impact of neonics and monocultures on CCD, Marla failed to mention CCD hardly exists in very heavy neonic and monocultural areas like Illinois and failed to mention feral colonies appear to be doing fine in Illinois. And Marla failed to mention the prevalence of CCD has been on the decline in recent years even though neonic usage has been increasing. And while Marla's proposal to grow wildflowers everywhere sounds appealing, she left out critical details like whether it would be logistically possible and financially affordable for Society to compensate more than a handful of farmers to grow wildflower strips (instead of more food crops) on their land.


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## rhaldridge

Michael Bush said:


> >Maybe we should just blame Bush for CCD.
> 
> Why do I get blamed for everything!?


You're always available.


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## D Coates

sqkcrk said:


> Do you find yourself frustrated after reading WLC's comments? Do you feel uncomfortable doing so? Do you read his comments anyway?
> 
> If you do what you have always done you will experience what you have always experienced. That's what I used to do. And it often brought out in me things I did not like. So, I no longer read WLC's comments and I am a better person for it. We each have an Ignore List. Whether we use it or not is up to each of us.


Touché..., excellent point. After dealing with a nasty alcoholic father for my entire life I finally disowned him over 10 years ago and it was truly cathartic. Even after that, on occasion I need reminding that life is simply too short to waste my time with self-absorbed energy vampires that only get their strength and enjoyment out of selfishness and making others angry or uncomfortable. 

I'd forgotten about the ignore list and it's now done. Thank you!


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## WLC

Haven't you been paying attention to what has recently happened in Canada?

Health Canada and the PMRA has found that neonic corn and soy caused honeybee losses this past season, and in addition, they've called neoinic corn and soy unsustainable.

As we speak, they're working on solutions to the problem.

Yes, those were field realistic concentrations of neonics that killed those bees.

http://enewspf.com/latest-news/scie...farm-use-of-neonicotinoids-unsustainable.html


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## squarepeg

WLC said:


> Health Canada and the PMRA has found that neonic corn and soy caused honeybee losses this past season, and in addition, they've called neoinic corn and soy unsustainable.
> 
> 
> Yes, those were field realistic concentrations of neonics that killed those bees.
> 
> http://enewspf.com/latest-news/scie...farm-use-of-neonicotinoids-unsustainable.html


not exactly.

"current agricultural *practices related* to the use of neonicotinoid treated corn and soybean seed are not sustainable."

(emphasis added)

"the practices" that are not sustainable involve not controlling dust from seeding, something randy oliver has often spoken out against. the solutions are measures to control the dust.

good for canada!


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## WLC

"The PMRA said that its own testing of dead bees in 2012 determined that the majority of the deaths were caused by exposure to the pesticides -- likely through dust generated during seed planting"

Likely means they really aren't sure.

Read more: http://canadaam.ctvnews.ca/health-c...declining-bee-numbers-1.1456699#ixzz2fNNR6mmR


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## WLC

Dupont-Pioneer announces neonicotinoid-free corn and soy in Canada:

http://news.agropages.com/News/NewsDetail---10519.htm

It only gets stranger.


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