# How much honey could one expect from one hive? Spring



## Radar (Sep 4, 2006)

ifixoldhouses said:


> If you have single deeps with excluder and 2-3 medium supers on top, could you expect 80-100 lbs per colony? I have 12 and am thinking I'll get 1200 lbs roughly. if sold at $13 a pound should bring $15,600 crazy? I might start at $15 a pound.


I also dream!!


----------



## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

Radar said:


> I also dream!!


:lpf:


----------



## bushpilot (May 14, 2017)

I got about 80 lbs total from my 10+ hives this year, and I had to feed heavily in the fall. Who knows?

Next year, of course, will be so much better ...


----------



## Tim KS (May 9, 2014)

I have 20 colonies.......some I got 2 full supers from......some I got zero honey from. I got a total of about 400 lbs. Selling honey @ $8 per pound ain't making me rich....only sweet.


----------



## psm1212 (Feb 9, 2016)

I got 1200 lbs from 20 hives this year. 60# average. I sell it for $5/pound retail, $4/pound jarred wholesale and $3/pound by the 5 gallon bucket. I live in a poorer, rural area.


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>could you expect 80-100 lbs per colony? 

You can expect whatever you like. But keep in mind:

"Blessed is the man who expects nothing, for he shall never be disappointed"--Alexander Pope

"Demand not that things happen as you wish, but wish them to happen as they do, and you will go on well."—Epictetus, The Discourses

"I have no hopes and therefore I have no fears" --Reepicheep, in Voyage of the Dawn Treader by C.S. Lewis

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesexpectations.htm


----------



## Spur9 (Sep 13, 2016)

ifixoldhouses said:


> if sold at $13 a pound should bring $15,600 crazy? I might start at $15 a pound.


Do you mean $13 or $15 a quart? Your math translates to $39 or $45 a quart.


----------



## ifixoldhouses (Feb 27, 2019)

The 1 lb bottles the only way to make any money at it. I don't see how people sell it so cheap? I have $9,000 in bees this year. made a video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erU1BNPuu-k&t=53s
I guess my estimates are off. I'll probably stick to nucs/Queens from here on out.


----------



## Apis Natural (Aug 31, 2017)

Spur9 said:


> Do you mean $13 or $15 a quart? Your math translates to $39 or $45 a quart.


no it doesn't, it's your math that is off

13 x 1200 is 15,600


----------



## psm1212 (Feb 9, 2016)

Apis Natural said:


> no it doesn't, it's your math that is off
> 
> 13 x 1200 is 15,600


His math isn't off. You are just working a different math problem than he is.

If OP sells for $13/pound and there are 3 pounds in a quart, then $39/quart of honey.
If OP sells for $15/pound, then $45/quart of honey.

Spur's comment had nothing to do with the $15,600 gross of the OP's projections.


----------



## Fivej (Apr 4, 2016)

Love the responses, especially MB's continuing education courses. I'm too small to give an educated response, but experienced enough to say Good Luck. J


----------



## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

I keep track of an Orthodox priest, who is also a beekeeper/hive builder & seller.
His businessman friends told him, with all due respect - the beekeeping (and everything around the beekeeping) is business for poor people.
This is generally accurate.

I am sure you knew this already.
But if so - why spend so much money and expect even more money in return?


PS: otherwise, the beekeeping is a great hobby, especially when one has a steady job (or is retired);
being "poor" in the First World countries is a relative term and not necessarily bad either.


----------



## dudelt (Mar 18, 2013)

To get 80-100 pounds per hive and sell all of the honey, you have a lot of "if's" to get through. 

If you can keep them alive over the winter
If you can keep them from swarming in the spring
If the weather cooperates during the flow
If the area can support that many hives
If there is enough forage available
If you can keep expenses down
If you can sell 1,200 individual bottles

I don't live anywhere near you so I have no idea what you can expect from a single hive in a good or bad year. In my area, if you can get 35 lbs. per hive from a stationary hive, it is a really good year. Personally, I hope you do get 1,200 lbs. from your hives! I just love seeing success in beekeeping.


----------



## ifixoldhouses (Feb 27, 2019)

GregV said:


> why spend so much money and expect even more money in return?
> 
> 
> PS: otherwise, the beekeeping is a great hobby, especially when one has a steady job (or is retired);
> being "poor" in the First World countries is a relative term and not necessarily bad either.


I figure it would be something to do when retired, I still have 15 yrs to work though, but figure I can build up a business out of it after work, I'm only out about a months salary anyway, but am always looking for more ways to make money


----------



## Robert Holcombe (Oct 10, 2019)

Let's do the math but wait a minute the weather is about to change......................snow today!


----------



## psm1212 (Feb 9, 2016)

One of my goals this year was to carefully track my expenses and income related to my beekeeping. I found some free software (waveaccounting) and tracked every dime I spent. I even tracked mileage on my truck (Stride app) and reimbursed myself the IRS mileage rate. Treatments, sugar, wood, screws, glue, everything. 

My current status as of November 12, 2019 is (-$1,829.97). But I have roughly 28 gallons of honey left and I do have a new 25 gallon Maxant bottling tank and added a motor to my extractor. 

Had a lot of fun losing $2 grand. Hell, I think I knocked it out of the park this year. Hope to keep my losses to $2k/year from now on.


----------



## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

This year I have a pretty good crop.
Wife asked (half-jokingly) - should we sell some?
I said - it is more smart to give few gifts to few valuable and deserving people.
We eat the rest.
I am pretty sure I am correct at this point and at the time.


----------



## max2 (Dec 24, 2009)

I Like Michael's" You can expect whatever you like"

Last year my best hive made me just under 300 kg ( you work out what this is in lb) and I averaged about 160 - 170 kg per hive.

I also made about 50 nuc's which knocks the yield.

This year.....it is very dry here and we have bushfires galore. I hate to think what my average is going to be this year.

We have to take the good and the bad and learn form each


----------



## ifixoldhouses (Feb 27, 2019)

max2 said:


> I Like Michael's" You can expect whatever you like"
> 
> Last year my best hive made me just under 300 kg ( you work out what this is in lb) and I averaged about 160 - 170 kg per hive.
> 
> ...


300 kg is 600 lbs


----------



## Radar (Sep 4, 2006)

ifixoldhouses said:


> 300 kg is 600 lbs


300kgs = 661pounds , 61 pounds if sold at $13 a pound, thats another $793


----------



## ifixoldhouses (Feb 27, 2019)

So he got 661 pounds off his best hive? wth? and averaged 350 lbs each?


----------



## fieldsofnaturalhoney (Feb 29, 2012)

ifixoldhouses said:


> So he got 661 pounds off his best hive? wth? and averaged 350 lbs each?


Time to move your operation to Australia


----------



## ifixoldhouses (Feb 27, 2019)

IKR, 661 would be like 13 supers high


----------



## max2 (Dec 24, 2009)

"IKR, 661 would be like 13 supers high "

We manage our hives very differently here. I have a FD broodbox. A q excluder. A FD supper and in some cases another 1/2 super.

We harvest as the honey comes in - maybe every 3 to 4 weeks. In extreme cases after 10 days ( I know of cases were a super was full again after one week)

We have a cool period from June/July to August but in some coastal areas the Tea Trees are flowering in winter giving something to harvest even then. 661 lb is no Australian record. far from it.

But it all can turn pear-shape - like this year. Some friends had to feed their bees: too dry, no rain.


----------



## max2 (Dec 24, 2009)

Here is some data which shows recorded yields in Australia: https://badbeekeepingblog.com/2016/04/26/honey-times-in-oz/


----------



## ifixoldhouses (Feb 27, 2019)

Daaaaaaaaamn I'd like to visit there someday and see that myself.


----------



## Barhopper (Mar 5, 2015)

You have $9000 in 12 hives? Those are some expensive bees! That’s like $750 a hive. Hope they’re good ones.


----------



## ifixoldhouses (Feb 27, 2019)

well, there are 12 empty ones ready for next year, plus all the equipment.


----------



## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

IFOH, keeping it a little more local, 35-40# per hive is considered pretty good here just a bit north of you. Some hives will do better than others, and some will do nothing at all. Your original question is truly an attempt at "counting chickens before they hatch". Selling nucs is the same thing. Suppose you started 20 nucs in August with the intent of overwintering them and selling each nuc for $170. Logic would suggest you have an potential income of $3400. Reality dictates that you allow for winter losses and even some of the survivors won't be good enough to sell, so how much can you make? Dunno, it depends, right? 
If.you want to keep this hobby affordable, make most, if not all, of your woodenware and raise your own queens. Set swarm traps for increased diversity but most importantly, DON'T BUY BEES!

PS. I stopped counting when I hit 6K. That way when the wife asks me how much money I have spent, I can honestly say, " I don't know".


----------



## jnqpblk (Apr 7, 2015)

Here, SW WA, my hives that winter over and get built up before the flow, depending on the size of field force and their bent on haul'n nectar, I get from a single med super to about 3 supers per hive.
ps. A single medium frame yields +-1 quart of honey.

And insulating over winter (though I don't yet) may help yield considerably more surplus.
Feeding pollen sub late winter/early spring (I sometimes do) helps the building of the strong field force, and will yield more surplus.

But for any hive to have a good surplus yield, there must be ample surplus nectar available in the surrounding area, annnd the hive must have ample field force to get it.


----------



## Hogback Honey (Oct 29, 2013)

Depends on your location, and the weather. I've 4 hives, Zone 7a or so, I got 75 - 80 pounds this year, TOTAL off those 4 hives. Last year I also got about 75 pounds off 4 hives.


----------



## Pchristu (Aug 10, 2016)

ifixoldhouses said:


> 300 kg is 600 lbs


660lbs, to be precise. 2.2lbs/kg.


----------



## Radar (Sep 4, 2006)

Pchristu said:


> 660lbs, to be precise. 2.2lbs/kg.


To be even more precise 1kg = 2.20462 lbs

300kgs = 661.387 pounds


----------



## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Radar said:


> To be even more precise 1kg = 2.20462 lbs
> 
> 300kgs = 661.387 pounds


Not so.

300.000 kg would equal 661.387 lb. You cannot derive decimal point precision from an equation when one of the numbers is obviously not a precise number.


----------



## ifixoldhouses (Feb 27, 2019)

stlil 661 lbs from one hive? most be tons of flowers, tons of bees, and no mites must help.


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

The Nebraska average is 40 pounds...


----------



## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Not that bees pay attention to political boundaries but the national survey shows North Carolina at 41 and 33 lbs. per colony in 2017 and 2018 respectively. Nebraska at 63 and 59 pounds. 
https://downloads.usda.library.corn...es/hd76s004z/j098zm46r/d504rv45m/hony0519.pdf


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Nebraska at 63 and 59 pounds.

I haven't kept up. If it's up to 63 that's good.  I'm pretty sure it used to be around 40 when I checked a few years ago.


----------



## jimbo3 (Jun 7, 2015)

max2 said:


> "IKR, 661 would be like 13 supers high "
> 
> We manage our hives very differently here. I have a FD broodbox. A q excluder. A FD supper and in some cases another 1/2 super.
> 
> ...


Damm (had to get past the auto-censor)! What price do you get for honey in your area? Seems like that much honey could seriously dilute the price you can get.


----------



## jimbo3 (Jun 7, 2015)

Started with 2 hives this year. Bought a nuc. Caught one of my swarms. Lost one of my swarms (that I know of). Final harvest was around 5 gallons off of two hives. Now trying to overwinter 4 hives.

I know extractors aren't really worth it at my level, but maybe a 2-frame would be since crush and strain slows the bees down in their honey-making (giving them back bare foundation)?

This is the first year out of 4 (I think - or is it 5?) that I actually got enough honey to sell and now have people asking for more, so now my positive loss is slightly less.


----------



## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

>If you have single deeps with excluder and 2-3 medium supers on top, could you expect 80-100 lbs per colony? I have 12 and am thinking I'll get 1200 lbs roughly. if sold at $13 a pound should bring $15,600 crazy? I might start at $15 a pound.

I have been hearing beginners with these lofty spreadsheet profit calculations for over 45 years now. If small time honey production was that profitable, Warren Buffet would be doing it.


----------



## max2 (Dec 24, 2009)

" What price do you get for honey in your area? Seems like that much honey could seriously dilute the price you can get. "

$ Aus 12 per kg in a glass jar. $ 9/kg in bulk


----------



## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

$8 per pound USD does not sound bad when sold in 2.2# jars.


----------



## jimbo3 (Jun 7, 2015)

max2 said:


> " What price do you get for honey in your area? Seems like that much honey could seriously dilute the price you can get. "
> 
> $ Aus 12 per kg in a glass jar. $ 9/kg in bulk



My calculations are probably wrong, but it looks like around 3.70/ lb usd. Bulk is much less, but with your volume that seems pretty substantial. I'm surprised with that much honey per hive you're able to get those prices if most people around you are getting that much per hive.


----------



## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

I may have done the conversion backwards. 1.47:1, but which is which? Have not had my coffee yet this morning either.


----------



## little_john (Aug 4, 2014)

ifixoldhouses said:


> I have $9,000 in bees this year.


If you have $9000 invested in your bee operation, *that* should tell you about one area in which money is to be made in beekeeping ! I doubt you spent $9000 buying honey - so there's no foundation there to assume that honey is profitable.

Whatever you *did* spend that money on, *there* is where one profitable market probably lies - so suggest you look into that - and if it looks likely, then find other people with the same mindset as yourself willing to purchase 'whatever it is' from you, hopefully involving similar amounts of money. 

LJ


----------



## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

little_john said:


> If you have $9000 invested in your bee operation, *that* should tell you about one area in which money is to be made in beekeeping ! I doubt you spent $9000 buying honey - so there's no foundation there to assume that honey is profitable.
> 
> Whatever you *did* spend that money on, *there* is where one profitable market probably lies - so suggest you look into that - and if it looks likely, then find other people with the same mindset as yourself willing to purchase 'whatever it is' from you, hopefully involving similar amounts of money.
> 
> LJ


Back to the same old, obvious phenomenon - yet it is forgotten every time and quickly too.

The most money makers from the gold rushes are the ... *shovel sellers*.
Forget the gold.
Sell the shovels.

In fact - invent the "gold rush" so you can sell the shovels.


----------



## ifixoldhouses (Feb 27, 2019)

I just discovered a neighbor 1/8 of a mile away let someone place 10 hives on his property, I guess getting a ton of honey is out, I'll be making nucs for sale. There are 3-4 hives a 1/4 mile away on the other side of me too.


----------



## Jackam (Jun 3, 2013)

ifixoldhouses said:


> I just discovered a neighbor 1/8 of a mile away let someone place 10 hives on his property, I guess getting a ton of honey is out, I'll be making nucs for sale. There are 3-4 hives a 1/4 mile away on the other side of me too.


Would that really make such a huge difference in your bees honey production? I know there are limiting factors... but I dunno


----------



## ifixoldhouses (Feb 27, 2019)

maybe not now, but I plan on having 25 next year, maybe I'll just make nucs from now on, keep about 15 production hives.


----------



## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

The problem with getting a ton of honey lies not with the number of hives in the area as much as having a large foraging age work force when the flow starts and plenty of drawn comb for them to store it in. The tulip poplar tree produces a huge amount of nectar and the trick is getting it into YOUR hives. Later in the summer, additional hives in the area may increase robbing pressure and, depending on the other beekeeper's stewardship, mite bombs later in the fall. Nuc creation and swarming will have more of an impact on how close you come to the state's average production per hive than a few additional colonies in the same foraging locale.


----------



## ifixoldhouses (Feb 27, 2019)

cool, there's 100-acre woods all around here, I'm sure there are plenty of poplars.


----------



## cfalls (Nov 26, 2017)

Just as a random data point, here's my experience:

First year: started with 4 nucs, had some swarms, combined 2 colonies, extracted maybe 3 mason jars, all 3 colonies overwintered successfully in double deeps.

Second year: bought 2 more nucs, extracted 140 lbs (maybe 11 or 12 gallons), have 6 colonies going into winter in double deeps.

Next year will be my first year with drawn comb for supers.

I figure this is probably pretty average for the kind of new beekeeper who spends a lot of time on these forums. My area has pretty average forage. I've prevented dead-outs, but largely failed at swarm prevention, which feels like par for the course.

I've loved it as a hobby, but I think this scale of beekeeping would be insane as a money-making endeavour.


----------



## little_john (Aug 4, 2014)

cfalls said:


> I've loved it as a hobby, but I think this scale of beekeeping would be insane as a money-making endeavour.


Absolutely right. One of the most enduring myths is that "there's money to be made in beekeeping". Well, maybe there is for full-time beekeepers who know their business well, but for hobbyists unfortunately this idea frequently turns into self-delusion.
If a hobbyist were to factor in even a modest hourly wage - the sort of money they could earn (say) stacking supermarket shelves or a similar unskilled job, then one reality of the beekeeping business model quickly reveals itself. If you were then to raise this wage to that of a job requiring the same level of skill as that which a beekeeper must acquire if they are to become successful (at hobbyist or professional level), then beekeeping would confirm itself to be a very poor choice of occupation when based on this one economic factor alone - and I haven't even begun to consider issues of capital investment and the amortisation of equipment/ vehicles etc.

I'm sure "there IS money to be made from beekeeping", but this appears to lie with equipment manufacturers and suppliers, but even beekeeping suppliers tend to go out of business with uncanny regularity - so there may be some self-delusion or excessive optimism to be found there as well.

"Don't give up the day job".

LJ


----------



## ifixoldhouses (Feb 27, 2019)

I have 14 supers of drawn comb for next year, There are people making money, look at the Barnyard bees guy, he's making a ton, makes like $80,000 a year off of youtube alone I bet. You have to start little to get big.


----------



## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

If I had as big of operation as does David, I don't think beekeeping would be as much fun. Looks more like work.


----------



## ifixoldhouses (Feb 27, 2019)

I bet they draw in 600k a year though. I don't think he's got but 6 years xp, his first video was 6 years ago, him with one hive.


----------



## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

odfrank said:


> I have been hearing beginners with these lofty spreadsheet profit calculations for over 45 years now. If small time honey production was that profitable, Warren Buffet would be doing it.


Seen it a few times myself Frank. After they realize a honey crop is not an easy route to some quick money, typically the tune changes to 'I will sell nucs instead of making honey'.


----------



## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

ifixoldhouses said:


> I have 14 supers of drawn comb for next year, There are people making money, look at the Barnyard bees guy, he's making a ton,* makes like $80,000 a year off of youtube alone I bet. *You have to start little to get big.


Youtube rates went down quite a bit.
Making money on beekeeping youtube channel?
Dream on.

Need to run hundreds Ks of the followers and more to make any significant cash.
Better get into Roblox or Minecraft you-tubing.
That's where the money is - but the kids already taken that over - too late for you.


PS: the channel is a good selling tool for your own wares - that is granted.


----------



## ifixoldhouses (Feb 27, 2019)

he makes $8,000 a year, I was thinking it was $18 per 1000 views, it's $18 per 1000 ad views, so like $5 per 1000 views. Those Minecraft guys make millions.


----------



## little_john (Aug 4, 2014)

But that isn't beekeeping - it's film-making.
LJ


----------



## Amibusiness (Oct 3, 2016)

Seriously, consider beekeeping a hobby for a few more years. You need a lot more experience before you can plan for making any money, and I mean income not profit. If you keep it a hobby you be happy with the experience you get vs the cost. If you think of it as a business you will invest as if you will one day (soon) turn a profit. That's a sure fire way to loose money then interest. Once you know what you are doing with bees and what to expect in your area you will know how much you can make. As a hobbyist, I make about $400 per overwintered colony. Income not profit. Some years better than others. As lj pointed out, were I to count labor I'd be in a sad state.... Hive maintenance is less than 10 hours per year (i don't actually know how long cuz it's a hobby) but extracting and marketing, not to mention jars and equipment all take their toll before I get mine 🙂


----------



## ifixoldhouses (Feb 27, 2019)

Man I feel like that guy from the first of 100,000 hives thread


----------



## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

ifixoldhouses said:


> Man I feel like that guy from the first of 100,000 hives thread


About 30 years ago, I had dreams of getting rich growing Christmas trees on my 43 acre farmette in WI. Looked good on paper.


----------



## ifixoldhouses (Feb 27, 2019)

JWPalmer said:


> About 30 years ago, I had dreams of getting rich growing Christmas trees on my 43 acre farmette in WI. Looked good on paper.


lol, **** artificial trees


----------



## bushpilot (May 14, 2017)

ifixoldhouses said:


> Man I feel like that guy from the first of 100,000 hives thread


It's all good. Enjoy the hobby, do the parts that you enjoy, and see what happens. You might be surprised.

As previously stated, I am hoping for a good honey crop next year. I didn't get a good one this year, and I got none last year, but I seriously think I will next year. Why? Because I am learnng what it takes, I still enjoy it, and i have lowered my expectations.

A bit above someone said something along the lines of new keepers eventually start making nucs. Well, that is my plan next year, but I don't consider that a failure in any way. I'll enjoy making nucs and selling them, if that works out.

Yeah, so do what you enjoy, and see if you can make a little money at it. 

BTW, I have made a few dollars selling hive equipment carefully purchased and assembled by me, with a little markup. I build them in the cold of winter, and sell them in the Spring. I have met beekeepers that post on here that way, and was able to mentor a new keeper a little through that. All is good, all part of the hobby.

Re the new hives in the area, I wouldn't worry about a few new ones (other than the mites they might bring). Perhaps it is a good sign, that someone else thinks the area worthwhile for production.


----------



## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

ifixoldhouses said:


> he makes $8,000 a year, I was thinking it was $18 per 1000 views, it's $18 per 1000 ad views, so like $5 per 1000 views. Those Minecraft guys make millions.


Heck, my own kid now wants ME to buy HIM a "flamingo hoodie" for $44.95 because this is how he want to supports his favorite you-tuber (them you-tubers sell some cool hoodies, you know).

Now go and set up your own "ifixoldhouses" channel.
Maybe few bees will buy your T-Shirts.
Those T-Shirts better be cool. 
Hehehe.... 

On the other hand, I could provide some watch-worthy stuff, actually.
OK, I will not spill my own beans.
But that will make it a full-time job WITHOUT a guarantied paycheck.
I will wait...


----------



## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

ifixoldhouses said:


> If you have single deeps with excluder and 2-3 medium supers on top, could you expect 80-100 lbs per colony? I have 12 and am thinking I'll get 1200 lbs roughly. if sold at $13 a pound should bring $15,600 crazy? I might start at $15 a pound.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erU1BNPuu-k


I hate to tell you this, but not all honey is created equal. Clover, Tupelo, Sage, and Mesquite honeys seem to get the top prices, then comes orange and the better tasting medium - dark honeys. Most of my Wildflower honey includes mustard and others less desirable (=dark and strong) flavors and get sold at bulk prices to the bakeries if they are too low on the quality scale to make mead. Buckwheat fights for less than 20% of the populations's tastebuds.

You will very likely not even have to worry about any of this if you do not have a truck and do not move your bees to the various blooms. The money is in the pollination contracts, and developing a reputation for showing up with more bees than your SWAG estimates. Honey is extra pocket money, unless you make mead, which should be aged at least 3 years, preferably 6 years. Then you might get $27.50 USD per bottle if you've been at it a few years. I do tell the mead affectionadoes to please place their orders a year or two early, to be refunded in full if the crop is low or poor. Many just say, "Keep it for now and please put me at the top of next year's list."

Getting back to honey production, try offering to take a commercial beekeeper out to breakfast and pick his brain. Then do it with another, and then a third commercial beekeeper. No two beekeepers are alike, and you'll probably learn more from them than you will in most books. You *will* learn how to make more honey, but then you will have to go try to do what you have learned, and get it dialed in just right for your locations and timing.

There are methods that make LOTS of honey - 2 queen systems, larger hive boxes, pulling only a small amount of bees off a strong colony to make splits / nuc's and keeping the production potential idealized through the main blooms, excellent record keeping integrated with experience and knowing how rainfall amounts in each area and what months they came in affect honey production on each bloom, the new cell phone apps that tell you how close the bees are to swarming, etc. etc. etc.


----------



## ifixoldhouses (Feb 27, 2019)

Most of our honey is Tulip poplar around here, I'm thinking of just keeping about 15 production hives at this point and lots of nucs.


----------



## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

I really like the tulip poplar honey that my bees produce. So do my relatives in Florida who are accustomed to orange blossom honey. The problem is that the tulip poplar flow barely lasts a month, so we don't get as much as we'd like.


----------



## little_john (Aug 4, 2014)

I stumbled across this a few days ago and thought of this thread ...



> Work Smarter, Not Harder
> 
> In his 1835 book Practical Beekeeping, Russian beekeeper Nicolai Vitvitsky writes, “Peasant families commonly have 1,000 hives. Tending these takes little effort, so the owner can work his fields and attend to other matters.”
> 
> Today, conventional beekeeping has become so complicated that running even a dozen hives calls for a lot of dedication, expertise, and expense; it’s hard to imagine managing 1,000 hives without a team of employees. The difference is that modern beekeepers — like their counterparts in other branches of agriculture — want to increase honey output beyond what the bees would naturally produce. Increasing production requires more input and management, and it’s hard on bees and beekeepers alike.


So, the idea of less productive hives - but a lot more of them - might be worth considering. 
LJ


----------



## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

little_john said:


> I stumbled across this a few days ago and thought of this thread ...
> .............
> So, the idea of less productive hives - but a lot more of them - might be worth considering.
> LJ


Just down my alley.
Few days ago I posted few links to 6-frame based production hives.
I spent the time over the holidays trying to nail their methods and I think I got them.

To be fair, even in Russia-proper those 6-framer beeks are looked at as if some "freaks" (similar to the compact verticals).
Meanwhile the "freaks" are doing great, ESPECIALLY in the small-crop/mono-crop/niche/early honeys.

A common thing - while the "conventionals" spend the time and resources to grow their 10/12 framers for the main flow - the "freeks" are already harvesting the early honey and sell it for $$$ - because they can.

Also turned out, some "freaks" have been running 6-framers for 20 years - just quietly and not on Youtube.


----------



## dudelt (Mar 18, 2013)

Somehow, I cannot imagine peasant families in 1835 having any possibility of caring for 1,000 beehives. There were no cars so the hives had to be fairly close to home. It seems to me that having that many hives in close proximity to each other would starve each other out competing for food sources. It would be really bad if each of your neighbors also had the same number of hives. Apparently, there were a lot more flowers out there in those days....


----------



## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

dudelt said:


> Somehow, I cannot imagine peasant families in 1835 having any possibility of caring for 1,000 beehives. There were no cars so the hives had to be fairly close to home. It seems to me that having that many hives in close proximity to each other would starve each other out competing for food sources. It would be really bad if each of your neighbors also had the same number of hives. Apparently, there were a lot more flowers out there in those days....


1) Imagine that most any one has several distributed yards.
2) Imagine that the mega mono-crop fields, horizon to a horizon do not exist.
3) Imagine that the pesticides are not invented yet.

There is sufficient forage for everyone.


----------



## little_john (Aug 4, 2014)

> Somehow, I cannot imagine peasant families in 1835 having any possibility of caring for 1,000 beehives. There were no cars so the hives had to be fairly close to home.


Not so - Vitvitsky wrote that in 1835. Even 75 years later-on, people were still using horses and carts to transport hives (and people) around:



(From Miller, '50 Years', 1911)
LJ


----------



## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

little_john said:


> Not so - Vitvitsky wrote that in 1835. Even 75 years later-on, people were still using horses and carts to transport hives (and people) around:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Transporting log hives by a horse was rather routine.
Not a big deal.


----------



## Amibusiness (Oct 3, 2016)

So if your labor is virtually free (a hobby) and you reinvest all sales proceeds to buy whatever minimal equipment you cannot produce, and split each year to fill your equipment, you could grow to 1000 in a few years; length depends on how much time it takes to make a hive and what survival rates are (I could easily tripple or quadruple from overwintered colonies if I'm happy with less honey and don't sell many nucs. So if losses are 75% growth could be slow. But with 50% survival and quadrupling each year (effectively doubling because half are lost...) would be 10 - 1000 colonies in about 8 years.) Does this really work in the age of mites and migratory beekeeping? Probably to an extent but I think it's gonna be more work than in 1835. And there are gonna be a lot of mite bombs. And a lot of swarms. I wonder what the output would be? Sales of (overwintered?) Darwinian nucs, maybe some extra honey -- 10# / hive average? But 10,000# honey is going to be a lot of work so maybe it's less. Nowadays this seems to look better on paper....
Michael Bush wrote some good posts on lazy beekeeping, for anyone heading this direction. Not for those living with ocd.... Ahh... winter, when we have time to think about these notions.... I find come spring I am running around trying to do my best for each hive despite trying to live like it's 1835.... 😉


----------



## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Amibusiness said:


> .... But 10,000# honey is going to be a lot of work so maybe it's less......


All we need to do - STOP producing so much of the cheap and mediocre honey.
Lots of mediocre and cheap honey killing everything and anything.

It should be like this:


----------



## little_john (Aug 4, 2014)

GregV said:


> All we need to do - STOP producing so much of the cheap and mediocre honey.
> Lots of mediocre and cheap honey killing everything and anything.


One of Britain's principal supermarket chains (Tesco) has just had to remove all of it's own brand 'Natural Honey' from the shelves, after Inspectors detected unacceptably high levels of sucrose in it.

In all seriousness, if I had the necessary ability, resources and motivation, then I'd be producing either cut-comb or section honey - and charging top dollar for it.

The world is flooded with extracted honey, which is wide open to adulteration, and as detection by NMR is so expensive, it can only be justified when suspicions are aroused within major operations - so I suspect that small-scale low-level adulteration may be more commonplace than appreciated.

But - although 'honey in the comb' can never be a 100% guarantee of purity, it would hopefully provide some reassurance in this age of fake goods.
LJ


----------



## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

little_john said:


> In all seriousness, if I had the necessary ability, resources and motivation, then I'd be producing either cut-comb or section honey - and charging top dollar for it.
> LJ


Yep.
One reason I want to produce and sell something like these (minimal work for me; higher price per unit of my work).
No processing means - no legal requirements to be met for food processing.
Looks and feels - "unadulterated".


----------

