# Apivar Efficacy 2020



## psm1212 (Feb 9, 2016)

Pulled my Apivar strips after 8 weeks in hives. Mite washed 6 hives this afternoon. One hive had 2 mites (0.67%), One had 1 mite (0.33%), and 4 had zero mites. Apivar continues to be the only effective miticide for my climate and year-round active brood nest that gives me consistent and reliable mite control. I continue to use OAV in conjunction with spring brood breaks. 

I abandoned the OAV-only approach after 2017. However, that was before serious questions and studies seemed to reveal that 1 gram per brood box was likely not an effective dose. My plan for 2021 is to use OAV exclusively in one of my yards and continuing Apivar in my remaining yards. I am likely going to run this on a 7-day cycle and will let the mite drop determine how many cycles I treat. 4g per brood box. While I could likely manage a shorter cycle (3 or 4 days) for the one yard, I could not do that with all of my yards. (Still at least 10 years from retirement) And the whole point of this exercise is to find an alternative to Apivar for my whole operation. 

Thoughts and comments are welcome.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

I believe that we are in similar climates. Apivar is my primary treatment and has been for a few years. It continues to be effective. I also do a midwinter oav….sometimes two. 
I have a couple of yards that get their initial end of season treatment a bit late and 7 or 8 weeks is too long. I get a tub of Apiguard each year for those. I space the two treatments about 10 days apart, so the total treatment time is 20 days. Apiguard is a little less effective than Apivar in my experience but adequate. Those hives also get a midwinter oav.


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## psm1212 (Feb 9, 2016)

Thanks Dan. I used Apiguard for a couple of seasons with fair results. I have had a couple of colonies abscond when I applied the treatment, so I have stopped using it. Probably my fault as I was using it too early in the year and temps got too hot over the course of the treatment. I would probably need to wait until late September or early October to find a weather-appropriate window to use Apiguard, and of course, I would have no guaranty of cooler weather at that time. That is just too long of a gap for my comfort between removal of supers (End of July) and treatment. We do have very similar climates, but I bet you get cooler quicker in North GA than I do down here on the FL line. I can see how Apiguard would be a real option there.

BTW, I am an Auburn fan. That game was just painful to watch.


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## Robert Holcombe (Oct 10, 2019)

psm "Thoughts and comments are welcome." Ever thought of doing an inverse warehousing as in doing in the far North to create a brood break? Basically refrigeration to 40F or move them to a cold location when there is no flow period? 

Also, when re-queening can you force a brood break, OAV treat and then re-queen? 

Crazy ideas, I know. I deal with the cold. It is easier than dealing with the heat problems.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Anyone have suspicions about honey getting somehow tainted with the aroma of Apiguard?


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## psm1212 (Feb 9, 2016)

Robert Holcombe said:


> psm "Thoughts and comments are welcome." Ever thought of doing an inverse warehousing as in doing in the far North to create a brood break? Basically refrigeration to 40F or move them to a cold location when there is no flow period? That is a really interesting thought. I don't see why it would not work in theory, but it would be cost-prohibitive on my small scale. I think I would actually have access to some cold storage facilities, but rent and figuring out ventilation of CO2 would still put it way out of reach for me.
> 
> Also, when re-queening can you force a brood break, OAV treat and then re-queen? I do this every spring via Fly-Back Splits https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v...x4jMvmiv-AcUES14ygFmmJTvqy1SOO4VdnQ5BvAX3E&e= I have not have attempted a Fall brood break. I suppose that is an option, but I see a lot of risks trying to do it at that time of year with a heavy mite load already on your bees
> 
> Crazy ideas, I know. I deal with the cold. It is easier than dealing with the heat problems.


nm


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## psm1212 (Feb 9, 2016)

crofter said:


> Anyone have suspicions about honey getting somehow tainted with the aroma of Apiguard?


I don't know how it would not. But your marketable honey is supposed to be removed before the treatments go in.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

crofter said:


> Anyone have suspicions about honey getting somehow tainted with the aroma of Apiguard?


I wouldn't consider applying Apiguard with honey supers on. I'm pretty sure it would ruin any honey for human consumption.


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## Kamon A. Reynolds (Apr 15, 2012)

Nice mite washes. Kudos for doing them!

Apivar has been the most reliable here also. Especially in hot and humid summers it often times is not only more effective than the natural treatments but also safer for the bees.

Short brood breaks and treating with Apivar or O.A. = dropping the hammer on the mites. It works very well.

Apiguard and honey equals Honey with a Listerine flavor. 

Sorry about the Auburn game. Don't worry Alabama will give the dawgs a good run for their money! :lookout: ROLL TIDE!


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Tennessee's Bees LLC said:


> Sorry about the Auburn game. Don't worry Alabama will give the dawgs a good run for their money! :lookout: ROLL TIDE!


We're ok with a run for their money....as long as the Bulldogs come out on top.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

beemandan said:


> I wouldn't consider applying Apiguard with honey supers on. I'm pretty sure it would ruin any honey for human consumption.





psm1212 said:


> I don't know how it would not. But your marketable honey is supposed to be removed before the treatments go in.





Tennessee's Bees LLC said:


> <Snip>Apiguard and honey equals Honey with a Listerine flavor. <Snip>


With supers on it would be a given; Normal course of events would sometimes leave possibility of some of the brood box stores being moved up to supers in the following spring. Have heard that Hop Guard can do the same. I have used only a bit of formic and almost entirely OA vapor so no personal experience with the off tasting honey.

I can see where Apivar would be tempting especially in areas where you experience a lot of incoming mites from surrounding colonies.


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## psm1212 (Feb 9, 2016)

Frank: I only had a couple of years experience with Apiguard and I always used it in the Fall after supers came off. I never noticed a residue of odor or taste in the honey they collected in the supers the following Spring. Perhaps if you used it in the Spring, before supers go on, you might run into that issue.


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## Kamon A. Reynolds (Apr 15, 2012)

beemandan said:


> We're ok with a run for their money....as long as the Bulldogs come out on top.


Haha it should be one of the best games of the season! Can't wait!


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## TehachapiGal (Mar 5, 2015)

You must rotate the products that you use for mite control to prevent resistance. https://www.epa.gov/pollinator-prot...s-approved-use-against-varroa-mites-bee-hives


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## psm1212 (Feb 9, 2016)

TehachapiGal said:


> You must rotate the products that you use for mite control to prevent resistance. https://www.epa.gov/pollinator-prot...s-approved-use-against-varroa-mites-bee-hives


If a company will manufacture and produce an effective treatment able to be used in temps over 90F degrees with year-round brooding, I will rotate it in. Until then, it is Apivar each and every Fall for me. Or just let my bees die.


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## TehachapiGal (Mar 5, 2015)

It is horrifying to open up a hive and see my beloving bees with deformed wing disease, powdery stuff on them and what looks like no waste. It happened to my favorite hive a few years back. Very demoralizing. I use the shop towel method for treatment and as long as I change the towels every couple of months the mite counts are minimal. It's been so hot here in central California that I don't dare to slip in the the plastic board into the 10 Frame Varroa Trap with Drawer for 24 hours to get a mite count yet. It's still in the 80s and 90s.


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## psm1212 (Feb 9, 2016)

TehachapiGal said:


> It is horrifying to open up a hive and see my beloving bees with deformed wing disease, powdery stuff on them and what looks like no waste. It happened to my favorite hive a few years back. Very demoralizing. I use the shop towel method for treatment and as long as I change the towels every couple of months the mite counts are minimal. It's been so hot here in central California that I don't dare to slip in the the plastic board into the 10 Frame Varroa Trap with Drawer for 24 hours to get a mite count yet. It's still in the 80s and 90s.


I had high hopes for the OA shop towel method but got very poor results. Since the method is kind of off brand and relied on kind of a homemade ****tail dissolved into a paper towel, I felt sure it was me not getting the formula correct. However, the University of Georgia and Auburn University bee labs conducted an experiment (Randy Oliver consulted with Jennifer Berry of UGA) with shop towels and did not get very good results either. There is some thought that perhaps the high humidity of the Southeastern US vs. the arid climate of Northern CA (where Oliver is) could explain the differing results. But I don't think anything has ever been concluded on that. Neither Auburn nor Georgia has published their final results (that I know of). However, Jennifer Berry (GA) and Geoff Williams (Auburn) have both spoken of the study at conferences. You know . . . back when we had conferences?

I have not given up on the idea of a slow-release substrate charged with OA that releases over a long period of time. Basically, Apivar with OA instead of amitraz. Hope it happens soon.


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## P.Dosen (May 17, 2016)

Hello,

I am a beekeeper in Thunder Bay Ontario Canada and have been having great success with the amitraz-based product, Apivar. I use it in combination with OA dribble in fall and the 2 together work fantastic at dropping mites dead. Just wondering if anyone has had differing results as I'm hearing potential issues of resistance cropping up. Thanks so much.

Paul


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## ursa_minor (Feb 13, 2020)

I did the same as you, Apivar and OA dribble, it worked great for me this fall but I did receive a notice from our provincial inspector that there were some beekeepers that were reporting resistance to the Apivar so he advised us to check our mite counts after removing the strips.


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## P.Dosen (May 17, 2016)

psm1212 said:


> Pulled my Apivar strips after 8 weeks in hives. Mite washed 6 hives this afternoon. One hive had 2 mites (0.67%), One had 1 mite (0.33%), and 4 had zero mites. Apivar continues to be the only effective miticide for my climate and year-round active brood nest that gives me consistent and reliable mite control. I continue to use OAV in conjunction with spring brood breaks.
> 
> I abandoned the OAV-only approach after 2017. However, that was before serious questions and studies seemed to reveal that 1 gram per brood box was likely not an effective dose. My plan for 2021 is to use OAV exclusively in one of my yards and continuing Apivar in my remaining yards. I am likely going to run this on a 7-day cycle and will let the mite drop determine how many cycles I treat. 4g per brood box. While I could likely manage a shorter cycle (3 or 4 days) for the one yard, I could not do that with all of my yards. (Still at least 10 years from retirement) And the whole point of this exercise is to find an alternative to Apivar for my whole operation.
> 
> Thoughts and comments are welcome.


Hi PSM1212,


My experience with apivar has also been extremely positive, I live in Thunder Bay Ontario Canada, and use Apivar in combination with an OA dribble. Yeah, I see too many individuals using OA as a silver bullet for varroa mite control, increasing the dosage, doing multiple treatments in an extremely short period of time, no detramental effects on the bees yet, but in my humble opinion using a pesticide that much is never a good idea. Rotate rotate rotate treatments is always the best approach.


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## psm1212 (Feb 9, 2016)

I have used Apivar in the late-summer, early Fall every year since 2017. I have noticed no decline in efficacy as evidenced by mite washes post treatment. However, there seems to be at least anecdotal evidence among many beekeepers of a lack of efficiency. One theory was that Apivar had quality control issues and strips were produced without adequate dosages of amitraz. I never saw anything that confirmed this theory. The other theory is the development of mite resistance to amitraz. I have seen no studies of this resistance, however, I know of ongoing studies being conducted.

If mites show resistance to amitraz in my area, I am a screwed beekeeper. I really don't have other viable and effective options for treatment at the times of highest mite load.


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## P.Dosen (May 17, 2016)

ursa_minor said:


> I did the same as you, Apivar and OA dribble, it worked great for me this fall but I did receive a notice from our provincial inspector that there were some beekeepers that were reporting resistance to the Apivar so he advised us to check our mite counts after removing the strips.


Yes, it still seems to work well; and yes I've heard stories of potential resistance, not saying there is no truth to it but I've also walked into apiaries where applicator error was the issue also. My plan is to have a back-up treatment in mind when apivar fails, such as thymovar, it has comprable efficacy to apivar (95% or more) and that, in combination with a well-timed OA dribble should take care of the problem But for now my plan is to continue monitoring and use it so long as it works.


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## username00101 (Apr 17, 2019)

apivar poisons the mites, the comb, and the honey. 

besides that it's somewhat effective.


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## P.Dosen (May 17, 2016)

psm1212 said:


> I have used Apivar in the late-summer, early Fall every year since 2017. I have noticed no decline in efficacy as evidenced by mite washes post treatment. However, there seems to be at least anecdotal evidence among many beekeepers of a lack of efficiency. One theory was that Apivar had quality control issues and strips were produced without adequate dosages of amitraz. I never saw anything that confirmed this theory. The other theory is the development of mite resistance to amitraz. I have seen no studies of this resistance, however, I know of ongoing studies being conducted.
> 
> If mites show resistance to amitraz in my area, I am a screwed beekeeper. I really don't have other viable and effective options for treatment at the times of highest mite load.


Keep your chin up, I firmly believe you can make any treatment work if appropriately timed, it will be challenging when Apivar bites the dust as a miticide, but not impossible. My plan is to use thymovar in place of apivar when it no longer works; thymovar gives the same amount of mite kill as apivar (around 95 - 98%) but as with every treatment, there are positive aspects and negative aspects. Doing a thymovar treatment closer to late summer when most if not all of the winter bees have emerged should work well given that the temperature regulations with the product have been met. Who knows though, I might even switch over to formic pro, which I hear also has great results. Every beekeeper needs to find out which product works for them so long as its an effective product. Randy Oliver controls mites in California using only organic (soft) chemicals, the 3 compounds he employs within his operation are formic, oxalic and thymol (apiguard) that in my opinion is a challenge considering how warm it is where he lives. But, he does it, high efficacy treatments along with mite resistant stock rolled into a comprehensive IPM Program and Bob is your uncle!


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## ursa_minor (Feb 13, 2020)

P.Dosen said:


> My plan is to have a back-up treatment in mind when apivar fails, such as thymovar, it has comprable efficacy to apivar (95% or more) and that, in combination with a well-timed OA dribble should take care of the problem But for now my plan is to continue monitoring and use it so long as it works.


I was hoping to try Thymovar this next fall but I was hesitant as to it's efficacy compared to Apivar so that is good news.

What do you do for spring treatments? In my area they suggest Apivar but I don't think treating with it twice in a season is good practice, maybe that has some bearing on the local reports of an increase in resistance to it?

ETA my hesitancy with Formic Pro in the fall is the increased brood reduction possibility when my winter bees are starting. I need to start treating by Aug 15 as we have a short season.


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## Haveuseen1? (Jun 21, 2017)

I use Apivar and OAV and it does well together. I do mite washes before and after and see a positive impact on the mites.


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## P.Dosen (May 17, 2016)

P.Dosen said:


> Hi PSM1212,
> 
> 
> My experience with apivar has also been extremely positive, I live in Thunder Bay Ontario Canada, and use Apivar in combination with an OA dribble. Yeah, I see too many individuals using OA as a silver bullet for varroa mite control, increasing the dosage, doing multiple treatments in an extremely short period of time, no detramental effects on the bees yet, but in my humble opinion using a pesticide that much is never a good idea. Rotate rotate rotate treatments is always the best approach.
> ...


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## COAL REAPER (Jun 24, 2014)

ursa_minor said:


> What do you do for spring treatments? In my area they suggest Apivar but I don't think treating with it twice in a season is good practice, maybe that has some bearing on the local reports of an increase in resistance to it?
> 
> ETA my hesitancy with Formic Pro in the fall is the increased brood reduction possibility when my winter bees are starting. I need to start treating by Aug 15 as we have a short season.


I like formic in the spring once i start seeing drone brood. that way if there is a queen issue they have more chance of success to carry on. i have only had this issue in summer heat, but formic is very effective in an emergency. never noticed a queen loss when used in spring. AOV ussually does well in the fall and very few mites coming out of winter so that formic shot is mostly not needed. i use apivar after pulling honey supers. efficacy has been good for me. i would not use it twice in one year. rotate.
with formic the blip in brood reduction is really a lack of laying for three or so days. in those three days much brood has emerged and all those empty cells are quickly filled up on days 4 and 5 and everything is back to normal.


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