# Making a living with bees



## Michael Palmer

I am. Gave up pollination 16 years ago.


----------



## tnmtn

Michael Palmer said:


> I am. Gave up pollination 16 years ago.



Interested. So, you make a living from just bee products?


----------



## Michael Palmer

I do. Made 32T honey, sold 175 nucs and 850+ queens. 2-5 employees, depending on time of year.


----------



## Steve in PA

I'm in to follow this thread. I've been searching for more information on the business side of beekeeping. Information on raising and keeping them alive abounds but not so much about the financial side of beekeeping other than it's expensive. I have no fantasies about quitting my job to raise bees.


----------



## e-spice

Michael Palmer said:


> I do. Made 32T honey, sold 175 nucs and 850+ queens. 2-5 employees, depending on time of year.


After feeling pretty good about getting 450 lbs of honey this year, my wife and I are laughing about how little it is when compared to 32 tons! Out of curiosity how do you sell that much?


----------



## Michael Palmer

Most goes to other beekeepers who can't make enough to supply their customers.


----------



## hvacrich0

Michael, How many hives are you running and how many are honey production / queen and nuc production? What would you estimate your hive average honey production to be? Iv been splitting and trying to build up as fast as I can so haven't been expecting a honey crop yet. I'm having heave loses to the skunks and yellow jackets and I'm going to try everything I can next year to turn that around. My problems started two years ago when I dropped my hives off the stands onto pallets. This put them down where the skunks started using them for a smorgasbord. Iv been trapping them and have taken two to six skunks out of almost every yard but more keeps moving in. One skunk can eat up to 3000 bees per night. Four to six skunks is enough the deplete the Gard bees and weaken the foragers in any yard. Without the Gard bees there's nothing to stop the yellow jackets from robbing the hives out. Is this something you have had to deal with or am I just lucky to have so many stinky neighbors.


----------



## Michael Palmer

Rough numbers...

700 production colonies. Going into winter with 475 nucleus colonies. At the height of the season, somewhere around 630 mating nucs.

If you would winter nucleus colonies and use them as brood factories...for making more nucs, after a couple years, your production colony numbers would increase without losing the honey crop due to over-splitting.


----------



## Hive5ive

Thanks for posting this thread! I'm also building a bee business for my retirement. I feel like I'm spinning my wheels sometimes. Lost all but one of my hives last spring to a tornado. I'm three years in and have three hives and a nuc going into winter. No honey to speak of this year. I've got five or six years to get this up and running.


----------



## squarepeg

Michael Palmer said:


> Rough numbers...


32 tons (64,000 lbs) produced by 700 production colonies,

so roughly 92.4 lbs. average per production colony?


----------



## Michael Palmer

Roughly.


----------



## squarepeg




----------



## squarepeg

that puts you well above average for vermont, at least when looking at the latest statistics available (2014). 

http://usda.mannlib.cornell.edu/usda/current/Hone/Hone-03-22-2016.pdf

vermont came in at 58 lbs. average, whereas alabama came in at 53 lbs.


----------



## tnmtn

Michael Palmer said:


> Rough numbers...
> 
> 700 production colonies. Going into winter with 475 nucleus colonies. At the height of the season, somewhere around 630 mating nucs.
> 
> If you would winter nucleus colonies and use them as brood factories...for making more nucs, after a couple years, your production colony numbers would increase without losing the honey crop due to over-splitting.



Impressive! I'm curious how you got started. Two hives, like so many of us?


----------



## Michael Palmer

Yep, two packages from Georgia. Both died the first winter. My fault...took all the honey and they starved.


----------



## Michael Palmer

The USDA State averages are always way low for anyone who knows how to make honey with their bees.




squarepeg said:


> that puts you well above average for vermont, at least when looking at the latest statistics available (2014).
> 
> vermont came in at 58 lbs. average, whereas alabama came in at 53 lbs.


----------



## squarepeg

Michael Palmer said:


> The USDA State averages are always way low for anyone who knows how to make honey with their bees.


agreed. like you i came in at almost double the number this year.


----------



## bucksbees

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nznzpiWEI8A

A small video that covers Michael Palmers history and how he does things. In fact, going to watch it again.


----------



## RudyT

the National Honey Board lectures have excellent video and sound -- and with Michael Palmer, excellent and inspiring content.


----------



## tnmtn

bucksbees said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nznzpiWEI8A
> 
> A small video that covers Michael Palmers history and how he does things. In fact, going to watch it again.


It's possible Michael Palmer is an old back to the land hippie like me. 

Thanks!


----------



## ron manos

I've watched every video of his I can find many many times.He is so inspiring.


----------



## Michael Palmer

National Honey Show



RudyT said:


> the National Honey Board lectures have excellent video and sound -- and with Michael Palmer, excellent and inspiring content.


----------



## Michael Palmer

Back to the land movement, eh?




tnmtn said:


> It's possible Michael Palmer is an old back to the land hippie like me.
> 
> Thanks!


----------



## Steve in PA

What about product mix? There are a lot of things that bees produce. Honey, wax, nucs, and queens just to name a few. How does one go about deciding the best one(s) to pursue?


----------



## tnmtn

Michael Palmer said:


> Back to the land movement, eh?


Early 70's- left the suburbs of Buffalo for the wilds of Appalachia. It didn't take long to learn that if I wanted to eat I had to figure out how to put a seed in the ground and make it turn into food. Been here, with my critters and gardens ever since. But new to bees!


----------



## TWall

Steve in PA said:


> What about product mix? There are a lot of things that bees produce. Honey, wax, nucs, and queens just to name a few. How does one go about deciding the best one(s) to pursue?


Steve,

In general, those who are most successful find market holes and supply/fill them. I don't think Michael set out with a plan to produce 32 tons of honey along with the nucs and queens. Those markets developed over time.

My uncle use to raise and market over 30 acres of vegetables on his grain and seed farm. He never intended to do that. He sold some sweet corn seed to a neighbor who did pretty good but, had to leave his farm to sell it due to location. My uncle had a good location and started with a few acres of sweet corn and it grew from there. Customers would come and ask for this or that. He would try a little, figure out how to grow it, etc. If enough people wanted it he would grow more.

Michael provides a good model of what has worked for him. His use of nucs allows for sustainability of apiaries. What and how you market will be different.

Tom


----------



## beepro

Not only that, Michael's nuc model + Mel's late Autumn queen making model is
sustaining my apiary for the last 3 years. Going on the 4th will be a big
expansion here. The nucs will be growing rapidly without the mites to burden them in
the Spring time. You have to plan the process in order to make it right.


----------



## Steve in PA

Thanks Tom. That's sorta on the track for what I'm looking for, not just from Mr Palmer, but in general from other beeks that are making a few $$ in the process. What were the circumstances that made them do, or not do, certain things from a business aspect. 

I'm just looking for general input so I don't set about to reinvent the wheel so to speak.


----------



## naturebee

stay on topic, this is a history of beekeeping forum, please move to appropriate forum.

Joe


----------



## Steve in PA

naturebee said:


> stay on topic, this is a history of beekeeping forum, please move to appropriate forum.
> 
> Joe


Sorry I didn't notice where it was. I came from reading the mainpage which doesn't show where the threads are located.


----------



## Michael Palmer

Then move it Joe.




naturebee said:


> stay on topic, this is a history of beekeeping forum, please move to appropriate forum.
> 
> Joe


----------



## BigBlackBirds

hvacrich0 said:


> How many people makes a living with bees, without sending them out for pollenating? Next is how many hives does it take? I know the first thing your going to ask is "what are you doing with them". Everything you can without sending them to California. Honey of course, nucs, full size hives, queens, swarm retrieval and cutouts. Basically anything that can turn a buck with bees. Pollinating cherry's and apples seems like good money in our aria till I started checking and was told I can leave the bees in the cherry yard for no more than four weeks at a time if I want them to live. I'm really not to interested in poisoning my bees or moving them every four weeks so Iv passed on the pollinating. My expansion for next summer is in queens and nucs. Hard to believe the number of packages and nucs sold in this aria every year. Biggest problem with this is we have a long winter here that pushes me into May or June to really get started. The bees are my retirement and I'm building them up as fast as I can till I get as many as I can take care of myself. My problem is I cant find anyone that's making a living with bees without pollinating. What's your thoughts on this ?


I dont blame you for wanting to avoid pollination as I've also never enjoyed it. It can be profitable but it can have plenty of upfront costs in transportation and hidden costs in stressed bees. But if you arent going to have income stream from pollination (and eventhough I don't like pollination I'd probably still do it for the income flow), I'd want to maintain some diversification between producing/selling honey and selling bees, etc to provide a cushion if needed. This current golden age of money making in bees could come to a crashing halt in the future. I look around and see tremendous numbers of new commercial beekeepers and established ones getting bigger. But it wasn't that many years ago that just staying afloat was a struggle. All it will take is one change and the entire business will alter; whether that's a change in california water law or imported honey or something else but no market goes up forever. Not saying to avoid bee business, just consider what is needed for covering some of the risks.

If you concentrate on honey, decide what you are going to do with it. Are you willing to get into honey sales which is an entirely different beast than producing honey? At one time, we retailed and wholesaled a good portion of our crop but that still only amounted to about 35-40 thousand pounds a year. Our sales were heavily driven by tourism and without tourists we would have never sold those numbers. On the other hand, I know of parts of the country where you could easily sell more than that retail. Gotta understand your market. However, once you start producing larger amounts of honey it simply becomes a commodity and you have to understand what you can sell it for vs your costs to produce it. Even when we could bottle 35-40 thousand pounds for retail/wholesale, we still had to get rid of the remainder of the crop at the bulk price so keep that in mind. 

And the vast majority of bee/nuc type sales are going to hobbyists at least around here. When large beekeepers buy bees its usually an entire operation (at least in the instances I know of). Backyard beekeeping has been a trend for about a decade now. It too will eventually come to an end. 

Just make sure you have business options for the future.


----------



## mbc

TWall said:


> In general, those who are most successful find market holes and supply/fill them...... Those markets developed over time.


This is key, without developing a new market you are competing with already established businesses who've gone through their expensive development stages, worked out their margins and priced their goods competitively, tough game to match them and make an income.


----------



## Riverderwent

hvacrich0 said:


> My problem is I cant find anyone that's making a living with bees without pollinating. What's your thoughts on this ?


Bivocational.


----------



## Steve in PA

BigBlackBirds, thank you! That is exactly the sort of information I have been seeking.


----------



## Hive5ive

Great post... I guess I'll toss in my 2 cents again. We talk about diversification but in the back of my mind I keep thinking I'm just nuts. This is my plan if I can pull it off. I just built a new store, hope to have it completed by spring. The nearest bee supply is 80 miles away, so bee supplies is a must. I'm going to offer honey extraction and bottling too. The store/honey house is going to have a certified kitchen so preserves and such can be processed. Of course I'll be selling bees too. Miss anything?


----------



## BigBlackBirds

Hive5ive said:


> Great post... I guess I'll toss in my 2 cents again. We talk about diversification but in the back of my mind I keep thinking I'm just nuts. This is my plan if I can pull it off. I just built a new store, hope to have it completed by spring. The nearest bee supply is 80 miles away, so bee supplies is a must. I'm going to offer honey extraction and bottling too. The store/honey house is going to have a certified kitchen so preserves and such can be processed. Of course I'll be selling bees too. Miss anything?


I think custom honey extraction has potential or maybe I should say it deserves taking a serious look at. 

I know of operations with a few thousand colonies that have all of their honey custom extracted. Its an expense for them but so is setting up a quality honey house and manning it. Thats one potential market assuming there are operations around you that have the need and you want to invest that kind of money in stainless equipment, pumps, building, and have the time and crew to operate such an affair. 

On the other hand, I know a number of small folks don't want to do their own extracting or even buy the equipment for it. I have access to a nice set up that we used for years to extract but I don't have enough honey now to justify the time to setup the extracting room and clean up/tear it back down. I'd just as soon pay someone to run my honey and sure I'm not alone. 

So I think you have a few possible business options with extraction if you know your market.


----------



## grozzie2

Michael Palmer said:


> National Honey Show


All of those videos were extremely inspiring, and completely changed our approach to how we are running bees here.

My biggest complaint about them tho, they made Michael a very popular person for getting into bee events as a speaker, so it's almost impossible for our organization to get him scheduled in now.


----------



## The Honey Householder

Second generation honey producer. Not only do I make a live at it. My Mom and Dad made a living at. 

It's been a long and busy season. 78+ tons produced this year. We sold a lot of nucs , and packages, and tons of beeswax (wax broker and retailer).

The honey is bucketed and sold to the beekeepers, nothing get sold to the packers anymore.


----------



## D Coates

Hive5ive said:


> Great post... I guess I'll toss in my 2 cents again. We talk about diversification but in the back of my mind I keep thinking I'm just nuts. This is my plan if I can pull it off. I just built a new store, hope to have it completed by spring. The nearest bee supply is 80 miles away, so bee supplies is a must. I'm going to offer honey extraction and bottling too. The store/honey house is going to have a certified kitchen so preserves and such can be processed. Of course I'll be selling bees too. Miss anything?


I like the way you're thinking there Hive5ive, though I've got no interest in opening a supply location. But, wow! I've been considering building a "honey house" to move all of my stuff into and permanently set up my extraction equipment. Extracting others honey for a price would be another way to help the building & equipment pay for itself. Putting a certified kitchen in there would be another thing to consider as a way to multi use the facility. I'm going to need to review what $ is involved in that. I'm already doing what MP is describing but at 15% of his scale and no substantial queen production. I retail all of my products (beeswax soap and candles too) via an honor stand that does very well. Once "retired" I plan on getting up to 100 hives add another 1 or 2 honor stands and supplementing my income nicely with bee related income.


----------



## bucksbees

grozzie2 said:


> All of those videos were extremely inspiring, and completely changed our approach to how we are running bees here.
> 
> My biggest complaint about them tho, they made Michael a very popular person for getting into bee events as a speaker, so it's almost impossible for our organization to get him scheduled in now.


He is booked to come to Texas, but I can't get off work yo go see him.


----------



## Fusion_power

> nothing get sold to the packers anymore.


 The packers are purchasing cheap honey on the world market. It is very hard to make money if packers are among your market choices.


----------



## Steve in PA

So it looks like honey is the overwhelming choice for 1st product. What about second product? Wax, bees, or queens?

As a noob it would seem that selling nucs could be a very close second. Splitting one hive to yield 2 nucs for sale would yield approx $250 and keep one to grow Or, an 80 lb yield on the same hive for extracting and selling honey would break even at $3.13/lb after labor and other expenses. Higher honey price after expenses favors honey and lower favors nucs.

I know numbers vary greatly but am I thinking through this properly?


----------



## The Honey Householder

SnickeringBear said:


> The packers are purchasing cheap honey on the world market. It is very hard to make money if packers are among your market choices.


The last time I sold to the big packers was in 1998 for $.72 a lb or just over $30K a load. Wasn't bad money, but isn't as great as todays market.


----------



## Hive5ive

D Coates
I'm in the building about 35k I still haven't finished the interior or bought the honey processing equipment. I figured 55k to open the doors.


----------



## The Honey Householder

squarepeg said:


> that puts you well above average for vermont, at least when looking at the latest statistics available (2014).
> 
> http://usda.mannlib.cornell.edu/usda/current/Hone/Hone-03-22-2016.pdf
> 
> vermont came in at 58 lbs. average, whereas alabama came in at 53 lbs.


I would love to know where the USDA get their #'s. Who all reports their number and are they real #'s. My 7 year avg is a 158 avg. and that is with 2013 crop ( lowest avg in 27 years)in at 48 lb avg.


----------



## BigBlackBirds

Steve in PA said:


> So it looks like honey is the overwhelming choice for 1st product. What about second product? Wax, bees, or queens?
> 
> As a noob it would seem that selling nucs could be a very close second. Splitting one hive to yield 2 nucs for sale would yield approx $250 and keep one to grow Or, an 80 lb yield on the same hive for extracting and selling honey would break even at $3.13/lb after labor and other expenses. Higher honey price after expenses favors honey and lower favors nucs.
> 
> I know numbers vary greatly but am I thinking through this properly?



Steve---I think you have generally a wider audience to market honey and wax which you process into products like candles etc . Roadside stands, farmers market, sign at road for your house, friends you work with. 

Nucs/bees/queens are much more specialized but I think there is still possible market in areas. 

To me anyway concentrating on the nuc business is a little riskier. My window of opportunity isnt as long as potential to pull off a honey crop. You find most people want nucs really early in the spring. It can be exceptionally difficult to fulfill that demand as spring mating weather is iffy at best and once weather has stabilized lots of people have already lost patience and have moved on to another option. Not that you cant work around this---possible to ship bees south and pull them back north for nucs sales come spring or concentrate on overwintering nucs. 

As a side note, I also think producing honey tends to be generally easier for most folks that are moving into the sideliner part of beekeeping once you have all the equipment, learn swarm control and time the flows. Some years honey almost makes itself. You just add some supers and return. Other years the crop is horrible and you wonder how you will ever find enough to fulfill your customers wants. But on the other hand, raising bees can be a little more involved year in and year out. With solid bees and equipment you can start out supplying entry level folks however a continued client base or serving larger beekeepers requires real work on stock selection; not as simple as splitting colonies and hoping for the best. 

So I'd suggest moving towards honey first and easing into nucs/bees as your experience grows


----------



## BigBlackBirds

The Honey Householder said:


> I would love to know where the USDA get their #'s. Who all reports their number and are they real #'s. My 7 year avg is a 158 avg. and that is with 2013 crop ( lowest avg in 27 years)in at 48 lb avg.


LOL---You already know the answer to that question! I personally don't know many commercial beekeepers that intend to tell others what they are averaging. I sure wouldnt advertise 158# avg unless that state has laws regarding registration and distance between sites.


----------



## squarepeg

The Honey Householder said:


> I would love to know where the USDA get their #'s. Who all reports their number and are they real #'s. My 7 year avg is a 158 avg. and that is with 2013 crop ( lowest avg in 27 years)in at 48 lb avg.


understood ron, not a bad average there for sure. are you still harvesting all the honey and selling off the bees at the end of the season vs. overwintering your colonies?


----------



## The Honey Householder

BigBlackBirds said:


> LOL---You already know the answer to that question! I personally don't know many commercial beekeepers that intend to tell others what they are averaging. I sure wouldnt advertise 158# avg unless that state has laws regarding registration and distance between sites.



Why not? It's good for business. I can run 18-21 barrels a day if the boxes are good. I don't just extract my own honey.


----------



## The Honey Householder

squarepeg said:


> understood ron, not a bad average there for sure. are you still harvesting all the honey and selling off the bees at the end of the season vs. overwintering your colonies?


Sold most of them off early this year which might have hurt my over 200 avg.


----------



## BigBlackBirds

The Honey Householder said:


> Why not? It's good for business. I can run 18-21 barrels a day if the boxes are good. I don't just extract my own honey.


I'm thinking this state is about running out of space to maintain adequate yeilds especially on fickle star thistle that's chased the most. Adding more operations to the mix might be bad. Heck wouldnt be surprised if turned it into a range war as it is. 

But if you have the capacity to extract others honey and arent worried about overcrowding of your bees with others sitting down around you I can see what you are trying to do. The couple of operations up here I'm thinking of run around 20 bbls a day also.


----------



## Steve in PA

BigBlackBirds said:


> Steve---I think you have generally a wider audience to market honey and wax which you process into products like candles etc . Roadside stands, farmers market, sign at road for your house, friends you work with.


Thanks again for taking the time to discuss this. I am talking about Nucs as a #2 product and that's where the product mix would come from. 80% honey hives/20% nuc producers for example. You mentioned wax and that is something that raises my curiosity but I can't find any hard information on it. Are we just talking about cappings or actually taking whole frames of wax?

I read a lot of beeks make nucs up as insurance. Actually I did the same this year but I won't have any extra in spring. I"m still trying to grow my numbers. But, it would be those nucs that I would sell in the spring when the time comes. Queens...that's a long way from where I am now.


----------



## Barry

Unless everyone in this discussion were to be 100 percent transparent in how they manage their bees, throwing average # numbers around really don't mean much.


----------



## BigBlackBirds

Steve in PA said:


> Thanks again for taking the time to discuss this. I am talking about Nucs as a #2 product and that's where the product mix would come from. 80% honey hives/20% nuc producers for example. You mentioned wax and that is something that raises my curiosity but I can't find any hard information on it. Are we just talking about cappings or actually taking whole frames of wax?
> 
> I read a lot of beeks make nucs up as insurance. Actually I did the same this year but I won't have any extra in spring. I"m still trying to grow my numbers. But, it would be those nucs that I would sell in the spring when the time comes. Queens...that's a long way from where I am now.


Sent you a message


----------



## razoo

The Honey Householder said:


> The honey is bucketed and sold to the beekeepers, nothing get sold to the packers anymore.


Why are beekeepers buying honey? Don't they have enough of their own to sell?


----------



## The Honey Householder

I am a operation that buys all new 2 # packages in the Mid March and start them out on sugar water. I build them up and pull the extra bees for nucs ($155each) and packages ($100each) sales and splits add to my honey production. Then super them up for honey production in mid May. Start pulling honey around the July 4th. Pull and extract honey for 4 weeks for myself then take a week or so to extract other honey operations (which I buy or broker for them). I try and finish my extracting by mid to late Sept., so I can shake the bees for sale. Fall shake out sold for $25-30 a hive this year. Over half of the hive were shaken before golden rod started producing. So when I say I did over a 200 avg. with a start up of 2 pound package of bees in mid march. That is working for your Avg. You bet I can make a living at honey production. 
Now for bee sales whats a few hundred nucs and packages in the spring and then fall shake out do for the bottom. What it comes down to, it pay for my bees the next spring. 
Beeswax sales have become a great hobby of mine. I have found beesource to be a good place to sell and eBay too. 
I retail over 100 pound of propolis a year too. 
On top of all this I pack honey for my wife honey shop. 

Each year I hire a guy or so and teach them as much as I can so when they leave with there bees they can make a living with them. I had one guy that caught a swarm the first week he was here and produced over 130 lb with it, and 60 lbs of that was comb honey. Yes a swarm is July making a 130 lb. What a year. Should have seen that guys car when he left. 30 cases of honey 18 packages of bees. He had sold off his comb honey to one of my buyer.

Like others have said no com. operators post there number for other to see. A question was say and I answer one most won't put it out there. Will I leave all the cats out of bag. Maybe to some. To the guys that have work for me. Good luck.

So yes you can make a living without pollination. I have found many way to make the bees work for me. If you have any question ask them. 30+ years in the business and still learning.

Just hope this wasn't to t r a n s p a r e n t..........


----------



## The Honey Householder

razoo said:


> Why are beekeepers buying honey? Don't they have enough of their own to sell?


Doesn't seem to bee. I have had more beekeepers in the last 8 years that can sell honey better then they produce it. That a good thing alway around. it's a win, win for both the beekeeper and the honey producer. Those beekeeper keep a large % of USA honey in the small new market places, and I get to keep doing what I enjoy doing. Producing a lot of honey at a reasonable price.

What does it cost a beekeeper to produce a lb of honey???? 
As a honey producer I know what it cost me to produce a lb.
Think about it. If it cost you $3 a lb to produce and you can buy it at $2.50. Why would you produce, other then you like working the bees? 
I have try it all, big box store packing, packing for food production supplier, small store packing, to know I wholesale 85% of my crop to the beekeepers in buckets ( ya you do the math 66 tons in 60# buckets) A LOT OF BUCKETS. Almost 16 pallets of buckets. The other 15% of the crop get packed for a small little honey shop in a old canal town in NW Ohio.


----------



## beepro

When others find a way to do it always there are some objection or doubts. To those
who have found it, congratulation. It takes trials and errors to do it over time. After all this
is a local operation so adopt and adapt what will work in your area. If honey is not good then produce
the queens. If you can have it both way then why not do it all. Finding a better way takes time so hope
we all found our way to make it work, locally.


----------



## My-smokepole

To answer the ? to way beekeeper buy honey. It is simple. To keep their customers happy. Even through for some reason they didn't produce enough honey that year. If you get big enough that you supply a couple markets or health store. You will do what ever it take to keep them happy with in reason. Ron does that. I bet he sell more as a pallet load than a couple buckets at a time.


----------



## jim lyon

BigBlackBirds said:


> LOL---You already know the answer to that question! I personally don't know many commercial beekeepers that intend to tell others what they are averaging. I sure wouldnt advertise 158# avg unless that state has laws regarding registration and distance between sites.


There are 4 kinds of beekeepers. #1 Those that tend to overstate (either fuzzy math or exaggeration). #2. Those that tend to understate (territory protection mostly or perhaps an IRS angle). #3. Those that never say anything. and #4. Those that are completely honest and transparent about everything. The trick is trying to figure out who is who....if you really even care.


----------



## BigBlackBirds

jim lyon said:


> There are 4 kinds of beekeepers. #1 Those that tend to overstate (either fuzzy math or exaggeration). #2. Those that tend to understate (territory protection mostly or perhaps an IRS angle). #3. Those that never say anything. and #4. Those that are completely honest and transparent about everything. The trick is trying to figure out who is who....if you really even care.



LOL that is best I've read in awhile. I'm sitting here thinking of the people I know in each category!!!!!!


----------



## liljake83

The Honey Householder said:


> I retail over 100 pound of propolis a year too


Ron I am interested in your methods for moving soo much propolis every year?


----------



## The Honey Householder

All the propolis I sell is from my box scraping. Many say why not traps? I look at propolis as a by product, not as a production.
I don't use frame spacers, so to make the job easier you have to scrap the propolis. Scrapings have to washed, dried, cleaned and they package before marketing. Avg. time per pound for cleaning and packaging is about an hour. So it comes down to what is your time worth. Wholesale price right now for propolis $35-40 a pound and retail is from $16 an oz to $60 a pound. Really not bad money for a by product.

Like any business it take time to find the customers to move your product to, but as long as you have a premium product your customers keep coming back. :thumbsup:


----------



## AnnieBee

Honey Householder
Can you explain your procedures for washing and prepping the propolis?


----------



## squarepeg

ron, can you share your method for protecting those hundreds of boxes of drawn comb after the bees have been shaken out?


----------



## bsharp

AnnieBee said:


> Honey Householder
> Can you explain your procedures for washing and prepping the propolis?


Agreed, I'd like to know this as well!


----------



## The Honey Householder

When we shake we leave about 10% of the bees to hack the brood out. With in a week you have more then enough bees to take care of you brood boxes, and this is the north in mid to late Sept. Really no problem with comb lost. I store all my honey super in the yard too.


----------



## squarepeg

understood ron, sounds like the hacked out brood protects the comb until freezing temps, very cool.

i believe you have a pretty neat model there of how to maximize profitability and minimize risk with a stationary operation, way to go.

and thanks for the transparency, it will be my turn here in the next few weeks when the final tally comes in.


----------

