# Hives Too Large For Almonds



## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

So it seems like an annual tradition here on Beesource and elsewhere about this time of year, to see pictures posted of double deep 10 frame hives STUFFED with about 28 frames worth of bees and big bee beards hanging all around the pallets.
I have posted them myself in the past just for fun.
But truthfully; does that make a good pollinating unit?
I seriously doubt it.
I am going to see Randy Oliver later on this year and ask if he will do some pollen trapping between various frame counts in almonds.
I think that research will show that a good strong 14 - 16 framer or maybe even less, with a young queen and lots of brood ahead if it will make a much stronger pollination set than a sealed out monster.

Of course, I am aware that the pitch-black, bearded out pallets put on a good show for the grower.
But is he paying for a show, or pollination?
:s

Oh, and the pictures that I have posted of monster hives?
What didn't get posted was the equalization with other hives to knock them back.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

HarryVanderpool said:


> So it seems like an annual tradition here on Beesource and elsewhere about this time of year, to see pictures posted of double deep 10 frame hives STUFFED with about 28 frames worth of bees and big bee beards hanging all around the pallets.


28 frames stuffed in a double deep.....


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

Rumor has it that one of the posters on this page ( not including myself) is currently selling those beard "ends" for a mere $30 a pound to those having small bees and big wallets. If this rumor is true the gig of selling beard clips to beeks with "peach fuzz" hives just before the almonds is one unique way to utilize the the extra field force in those boomers.

Until the research shows otherwise and the growers buy into it I think one would be best served by showing up looking like a member of the Hells angels, full beard and all!


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

If all the cells are filled with pollen patty and HFCS they probably have less incentive to got out and collect any pollen.


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

They are wired to collect pollen... no need for incentive.

Jean-Marc


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

jean-marc said:


> They are wired to collect pollen... no need for incentive.
> 
> Jean-Marc


I have been taught that brood pheromone is the main stimulus for pollen collection. 
Bees will forage for pollen prior to significant amount of open brood present in the hive as well as during queenless periods.
But pollen intake is by far the greatest relative to open brood present in the hive, available resources, and field force.
If a hive is wall to wall sealed brood, hatch-out is the limiting factor for open brood (egg laying) present during the pollination period of the crop.
On the other hand, a strong healthy hive, on it's way up has ample laying area for an extended period.

I take the strongest hives I can muster to almonds.
But the monsters get equalized, and I think that makes for better pollinating hives on both ends.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

Does the amount of pollen collected really indicate the amount of pollination achieved? Does pollen not get transfered when bees are foraging on nectar?


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## Heintz88 (Feb 26, 2012)

I'm curious, from a business perspective if your getting paid for x amount of brood anything beyond that is a extra expense?? Why not pull brood out and make more hives? Unless you get some miraculous bonus from bearding hives or have a reason to have all these extra bees after almonds like packages.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

LOL @ peachfuzz, that was funny Phil.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

There is definitely a visual importance in providing a service. If a beards give off that impression that makes those growers happy, then giving them a few probably is a good idea. Although, I totally agree along the lines of with what Harry is saying. 

A couple of high priced animals placed within the rest will always make the rest look poor, but strategically place them separate so the buyers see the high priced animals first, and the rest will always sell for more money.

Its not about being deceiving, its about providing positive impressions. One of those positive impressions is well kept boxes, like I see in Harry's pics


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

Thanks, Ian.

I thought some of you might be interested in something Oregon State University put together a few years back related to evaluation of hives for crop pollination:

http://extension.oregonstate.edu/crook/sites/default/files/bee3.pdf


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## JSL (Sep 22, 2007)

deknow said:


> Does the amount of pollen collected really indicate the amount of pollination achieved? Does pollen not get transfered when bees are foraging on nectar?


deknow,

I am not sure about this. In a study I did years back, I collected returning foragers during late summer here in Ohio for a learning study. Each worker was evaluated for their foraging contents. A relatively small percentage returned with both pollen and nectar. Most had one or the other or none. This could be different in other areas and times of the year.

I agree with Harry, open brood is a strong incentive for pollen foraging. Open brood also really drives patty consumption in the pollen sub feeding trials I run. It is interesting to see the consumption rate climb as the new brood progresses in the first few weeks of a new package install, before the young brood begins to emerge.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

deknow said:


> Does the amount of pollen collected really indicate the amount of pollination achieved?


I guess that depends where you look. A few years ago, Chazy Orchards in NY asked me to look at the colonies they rented for pollination. There were two groups...side by side. Both groups were flying, but one more than the other. Pollen gatherers were coming back from the field in both groups. One group was stronger than the other.

Looking inside the hives, at the combs at the edges of the brood pattern, the difference was most noticeable. The stronger group had a pollen comb next to their brood, while the weaker group had none. To me it is obvious that the amount of collected pollen indicates the amount of pollination achieved.


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## Ben Little (Apr 9, 2012)

I have had a discussion with a blueberry grower that wanted double the standard for pollination units. Our standard for blueberries is 4 frames of brood or equivalent and 2 frames of honey plus 8 fully covered frames of bees. I usually have more then that but what he asked for was 8 frames of brood and 2 full boxes of bees plus he didn't want to pay the standard fee of 145.00/hive, he wanted to pay 125.00.
I tried to educate him a bit on our standard and that if he wanted that then he was going to pay extra for it and even so the bees would probably swarm because they will be there for 3 weeks and I am not allowed to open them up to manipulate them, he is a veteran grower and just being stubborn IMO. 
I think there needs to be more education for the growers and that way they can come to a better understanding when asking for such strong hives, I know it would be a great pollinator for a little bit but when they swarm they aren't any good to the grower are they and I'm out a production hive !

So I stick to my guns and offer 5 frames of brood and 10-12 frames of bees with honey frames max in double deeps. The demand is high enough that I don't need to be dictated to.
Blueberries is hard on bees nutrition and most all of the beekeepers I know send them out with 2 pounds of sub minimum.

I don't know much about pollinating Almonds, only what I have read and seen on videos. There isn't much pollen from blueberries, mostly nectar and sometimes you can make a crop off of it if the stacking rate is low.

Good luck everyone going to Almonds this year !!

Ben


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