# "Sideliner" Equipment in Order of Importance?



## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

After extractor, I find a good cappings spinner priceless.


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

Extractor
Uncapper/spinner
16ft truck w/boom
Swingerbee forklift and trailer (remove boom)
2nd extractor
HONEY house
300 gallon milk tank for blending honey into one color etc.

Something like that.


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## D Coates (Jan 6, 2006)

If I had to do it again this is how I'd do it.

Extractor
Uncapping tank
Chain uncapper
Settling tank
Cappings spinner
bottling tank/warmer (used as cappings melter too)
clarifying tank
honey pump
auto honey bottler

I'm still small with only 30 hives but my goal it to get to 50-75 once I'm "retired." I've been rolling my profits back into the business for the past 4 years to buy all the equipment listed. The honey house is definitely on my wish list but I've not moved on that yet. Don't know if I'll ever get to needing a truck with boom or a forklift for my size but those would definitely be nice.


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## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

Depends on your business plan, selling bees? selling honey? retail or local? First step should always be bees, so fork truck and moving stuff first, and wooden ware. If you do yoru job right, most years bees will double in volume (bees or honey) 

After that extractor and stuff to handle large volume of honey, IE honey pump and drum moving. then uncapping and wax. 

Just my thoughts.


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

DirtyLittleSecret said:


> Extractors, uncapping tanks, clarifiers, wax melters, spinners, honey pumps, bottling tanks, etc. Oh My! Seems a dizzying array of equipment for those of us starting to look at expanding our apiaries/capacities.


You need all of these to make a system. You need to address each of the following:

1) Warming the supers
2) Uncapping frames
3) A place to store an extractor load of uncapped frames
4) Extracting the frames
5) box scraping
6) honey separation from the cappings
7) honey settling
8) pumping and filtering
9) honey warming/clearing
10) bottling


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## ApricotApiaries (Sep 21, 2014)

We grew from 60 to 140 hives this year, up from only 10 hives 4 years ago. We have learned and adjusted with growth and are still learning and adjusting. 

The highest priority for a sideliner is good relationships with some other beekeepers. You might not need to have honey equipment at all if you know someone else who does. You might not need a forklift or boom truck at all if you can borrow one from time to time. 
Last year (60 hives), we made due with my 4speed Datsun pickup. I can move 11 hives at a time on it. Yard size was limited by truckload size. Feeding was the biggest challenge. Load as many 5 gallon buckets as we could, feed until empty, go home for lunch and do it again. Since we were planning on growing and a deal came to our lap, we bought a Ford F450 last winter. I am SO glad I did. This spring we were able to fill a couple of IBC totes with sucrose and get all our feeding done easy. Not to mention schlepping loads of nucs around and other gear. There have been a couple times we have had the bed pretty fully loaded and I am thinking "wow, i thought it was a big truck."
With the Datsun, we hand loaded everything for most of the year, but palletized for california. This year we remained palletized. I was able to borrow a swinger from a friend for a couple days, a front loader from another friend, and got all my bee moving done. I recently came onto an old (old old, a 720) Bobcat skidder with a mast on it, but I am still borrowing a trailer. For the amount we move bees it works pretty well. 
I guess the point is, you can trade and borrow and rent a lot for a long while. The only trouble with borrowing from beekeeping buddies, is generally if you need to move bees, they do to. But we can all help each other out a lot. Most beekeepers, although reclusive, recognize that beekeeping is often a community effort. Borrowing will teach you a lot about different equipment and setups before you invest in your own. It seems like there are a bunch of guys in the Willamette valley who share/rent extraction space from other beekeepers. 

Things I have:
Truck, forklift, bees, 10 frame extractor, 15 gallon tank, 5 gallon bottling bucket, uncapping plane, solar melter... (we processed 3,000lbs of honey with this setup this year, but I wouldn't wish it on anyone). 
Things I wish I had:
More supers, a honey house, trailer, better shop-space (my workshop has a roof and one wall, it is very cold right now), cappings spinner, a MUCH bigger tank

Now my personal order of priorities:
Bees, Hive Bodies, Supers (always more than you think you need)
Drawn comb
Truck
Extracting space (personally, I cannot justify a cappings spinner, larger tank... until I have a bigger space to extract in, so the honey house would have to come first)
If you have the space, then:
Extractor
Hotknife
Uncapping tub
Cappings spinner
Storage tank/bottling tank
Melter

Mann lake sells a unit which is a stationary hotknife built on top of a cappings spinner. Without actually having used one, it looks like an awesome setup. I know plenty of people who uncap several hundred hives with a fork. so an uncapper doesn't seem necessary at this scale. As long as you have a tub to put the uncapped frames in, you can uncap while the extractor is running and pretty well keep pace with it. Vince Vazza told me he extracted 1500 hives with a stationary hotknife for many years, with his extract line built in the back of a reefer-van. 

The retail or Local question is an important one. In oregon, you can sell anywhere you want as long as you only have 20 hives. Over 20 hives, you can direct market honey. You cannot wholesale or retail honey unless you are processing in an ODA certified food processing plant. This is NOT A COMMERCIAL KITCHEN. It is a FOOD PROCESSING PLANT. They want to see a plan before it is even built. Main consideration points are cement floors with drains so the whole building can be pressure washed. As you can imagine the expense of building a certified facility, That is why I recommend looking into renting someone elses space if you can.


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## b2bnz (Apr 5, 2009)

Here in New Zealand we have a company that has made a stainless steel harvester for smaller operators so that you can extract all your frames right next to your hives. This could be ideal for a sideliner with 100 or so hives saving on a lot of equipment, transport, time and effort. Frames always go back into the same hive, only transporting honey, no need for large trucks, swing booms or forklifts, no need for uncappers or extractors, in fact I cant see a downside! 
http://www.revolutionarybeekeeping.co.nz/


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## D Coates (Jan 6, 2006)

I see a huge downside for a true sideliner in that it destroys drawn comb. A hobbiest with 2-10 hives who doesn't want to retail but wants enough for friends and family without the equipment expense, I can see some interest.


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

a lot depends on the person and their cash available. some people have to have an uncapper for 100 hives. my best advice is only buy what will pay for itself. better spend money on bees first as that is where the cash comes from.


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

Typically as a sideliner, you have another full time job. Time is your most valuable resource. There often just isn't enough time to be thrifty. Always looking for anything that will save time. Time in the honey house or time in the bee yard. For example a bottling machine will let you pound out several hundred jars of honey in an evening after work.

And as Harry has said before, don't buy for where you are at now, but for the future.


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## b2bnz (Apr 5, 2009)

D Coates said:


> I see a huge downside for a true sideliner in that it destroys drawn comb. A hobbiest with 2-10 hives who doesn't want to retail but wants enough for friends and family without the equipment expense, I can see some interest.


In practice his has been found not to be the case and the bees rebuild the comb very quickly without loss of production honey. Its a pity that you wish to be so negative without even thinking it through. For the sideliner beekeeper this equipment saves an enormous amount of money on equipment and time. Another advantage is that the wax cannot get a build up of chemicals. It really does work.


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## DirtyLittleSecret (Sep 10, 2014)

Just went through the website and it looks pretty destructive to me! If I were "sidelining" I'd definitely want control over my product(s) and not reliant on utilizing a "cash for gold" business model. Besides, who's to say you get back what you sent in (how is everything tracked to ensure you arent getting someone elses crop)? 
I too can see the interest and value for hobby beeks in the <10 hive range. After that I think its important to become self-sufficient and not dependent on a subcontractor. Definitely interesting though!



D Coates said:


> I see a huge downside for a true sideliner in that it destroys drawn comb. A hobbiest with 2-10 hives who doesn't want to retail but wants enough for friends and family without the equipment expense, I can see some interest.


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## Mosherd1 (Apr 17, 2011)

At what point do you find a mechanical uncapper becoming needed?
-Dave


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## liljake83 (Jul 2, 2013)

zhiv9 said:


> Typically as a sideliner, you have another full time job. Time is your most valuable resource. There often just isn't enough time to be thrifty.


I think this is the key as a sideliner what will save me the most time.


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## texanbelchers (Aug 4, 2014)

DirtyLittleSecret said:


> Just went through the website and it looks pretty destructive to me! If I were "sidelining" I'd definitely want control over my product(s) and not reliant on utilizing a "cash for gold" business model. Besides, who's to say you get back what you sent in (how is everything tracked to ensure you arent getting someone elses crop)?
> I too can see the interest and value for hobby beeks in the <10 hive range. After that I think its important to become self-sufficient and not dependent on a subcontractor. Definitely interesting though!


It looked like they are buying your honey and wax. You don't get a crop. It looks like a quick way to crush. I'd like to see that unit run on foundationless frames.


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## b2bnz (Apr 5, 2009)

DirtyLittleSecret said:


> Just went through the website and it looks pretty destructive to me! If I were "sidelining" I'd definitely want control over my product(s) and not reliant on utilizing a "cash for gold" business model. Besides, who's to say you get back what you sent in (how is everything tracked to ensure you arent getting someone elses crop)?
> I too can see the interest and value for hobby beeks in the <10 hive range. After that I think its important to become self-sufficient and not dependent on a subcontractor. Definitely interesting though!


That maybe the business model in New Zealand, although there is the possibility of the purchase of your own unit and be self sufficient and not dependent on a subcontractor. It was the concept that I was trying to get across as an alternative to lots of expensive equipment and transport vehicles. 
I was more interested in the unit as an alternative for a sideliner and not having to purchase uncapping and extracting equipment. trucks and cranes and even moving boxes to a central extracting honey house. That must be worth something.


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## D Coates (Jan 6, 2006)

b2bnz said:


> In practice his has been found not to be the case and the bees rebuild the comb very quickly without loss of production honey. Its a pity that you wish to be so negative without even thinking it through. For the sideliner beekeeper this equipment saves an enormous amount of money on equipment and time. Another advantage is that the wax cannot get a build up of chemicals. It really does work.


I did think it through though. It's rather presumptuous to think otherwise. Bees' use the energy from honey to build wax that's irrefutable (this does not include the time used drawing comb). The more wax they have to build the less honey they're going to have as the flow is finite. That's why drawn wax is one of the most valuable resources to a beekeeper. Personally, I don't want to count on my paltry 30 hives pulling their own comb from scratch every year when I count on honey sales, not wax as the main source of revenue for my LLC. As for chemical build up in wax. I don't subscribe to it being an issue so fresh wax is of no real interest to me. Hence, why it doesn't work for me. However, as I stated earlier I can see a hobbiest with 2-10 hives I can see some interest in certain situations.


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## D Coates (Jan 6, 2006)

Mosherd1 said:


> At what point do you find a mechanical uncapper becoming needed?
> -Dave


Personally, it was at 15 hives for me. My right hand would get numb from using a hot knife on +/-20 supers worth of honey. 9 frames per super, 2 sides per frame. 360 swipes twice a year (two harvests).


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## My-smokepole (Apr 14, 2008)

Try going to 8 frame in a ten frame box. I found it a lot easyer and more honey.


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

My-smokepole said:


> Try going to 8 frame in a ten frame box. I found it a lot easyer and more honey.


Lots of cappings to deal with. You'll want a spinner. Could be a pain with frames sliding on an angle and falling out of the box. 9 frame seems to be the best compromise.


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## D Coates (Jan 6, 2006)

That's what I did this year. They definitely made more bridge comb but made for little capping scratcher work. My Maxant chain uncapper had a field day with it. I do have a spinner and after finally figuring out how to fill it (top on and relatively slowly) it worked like a dream.


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## My-smokepole (Apr 14, 2008)

Haven't had a problem with 8 frames falling out. Just as long as the framess ears are in good shape. Yes I end up with more comb wax. But it was way easyier cutting off cappings. Maening I could uncap faster. For me it worth it just in time savings.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>...in fact I cant see a downside! 

The big downside is you have no drawn comb, which will definitely cost you honey. How much honey varies by flows. Perhaps in New Zealand you have a long slow flow in which case it may not cost you as MUCH honey. In a short fast flow, it could cost a lot of honey as the bees don't get the combs drawn before the flow is over...


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

Michael Bush said:


> >...in fact I cant see a downside!
> 
> The big downside is you have no drawn comb, which will definitely cost you honey. How much honey varies by flows. Perhaps in New Zealand you have a long slow flow in which case it may not cost you as MUCH honey. In a short fast flow, it could cost a lot of honey as the bees don't get the combs drawn before the flow is over...


bingo!

in fact i can't see the upside.


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