# Help! Queen Cell Advice!



## John Russell (Aug 8, 2003)

I have an opertunity to pick up a dozen queen cells of good stock to replace some current loafers who need the boot. Due to the timing of the arrival, I do not have the hours needed to pinch off the old queens. What was suggested is that i just install the cells in the supplied cage, and 4 days after hatching the new queen will become agressive and seek and destroy. 

This of course is a gamble, because the new queen may not emerge victorious. Has anyone used this methood, or has there been any research / statistics on how sucessful this might be?
But since the cells are dirt cheap, would this endevor be worth it? As well, since they will be mating with N.Z. stock drones, am i really geneticly making any headway here? 

Any feedback would be apreciated. I'm very noob on the whole topic.....but I Larn' Real quick, Ma!

John Russell


----------



## peggjam (Mar 4, 2005)

Why not make up some mating nucs and install your queen cells in those? This way you could see what the new queens brood pattern looks like, and introduce at your leasure. Unless time is a real problem....

peggjam


----------



## John Russell (Aug 8, 2003)

Time is a real issue.

JR


----------



## Robert Hawkins (May 27, 2005)

If you don't have time to do the job, hire someone who does. You're not the only BK in Manitoba. Don't y'all have a club up that way? They won't accept the new queen the way you want to do it. Ain't gonna work.

Hawk


----------



## Morris (Oct 12, 2004)

The expression "you get what you pay for" comes to mind.


----------



## Robert Brenchley (Apr 23, 2000)

If you really want to improve your bees, make the time.


----------



## jalal (Sep 2, 2004)

younger queen will rock her world.

and its survival of the fitest anyway, eh?

just make sure that your bees are feeding her at the time of release


----------



## Robert Hawkins (May 27, 2005)

That's the first problem. They won't feed her. She'll fast for four days and then get killed. The workers will protect their queen unless they're queenless. You have to pinch the old queen first. Have to! Then wait a day for them to realize that they are queenless. 

Hawk


----------



## Dan Williamson (Apr 6, 2004)

I tried that once... Installing a queen cell with a viable queen. Didn't spot the queen and didn't realize she was in the nuc. The bees (or queen) tore down the queen cell before it even hatched. 

I doubt it would work but I've been proven wrong before and I'm sure it will happen again.









Dan


----------



## John Russell (Aug 8, 2003)

Thanks for the input guys. I apreciate the point of views. 

The deed is done. Far from me to disreguard your opinions and advice, however at the cheap price, I figured I'd experiment for the sake it. I have mated queens lined up anyway at the end of the month if it does not work out. 

The queen cell queens are significantly darker, so I'll post the results ....negative or not at the end of July, 1st week of August.

Aparently this method is practiced successfully by a few locals. The queen cells are housed in an escape cage to prevent tearing down. As for not feeding her...thats a good point. But since the whole trial is to duplicate a superseedure, ( Although with a violent end...) Are you sure they wouldn't feed her? As for defending the old queen, I don't think that will nessisarily happen. After moving bees, I lost a queen in the grass after removing entrance blockers in the dark. The next day, I found the hive abandoned, but found the colony on the grass beneath a pine. I placed a caged queen on the pile of bees out of curiosity. The colony imediately took to the air and circled the spot. I look down and see the two queens having at it, trying to sting each other through the screen of the queen cage. I captured the loose queen in a match box ( for lack of a better container, and went to put her in the truck. On the way back, 2 min or so, the bees are landing on a stump when I had set down the queen cage. They were feeding and trying to groom through the cage, not agressive at all.

Did I get lucky? Is this the way it always is, or just an anomoly? Possibly. 

Stay Tunned.......


John Russell


----------



## jalal (Sep 2, 2004)

you could try spacing out the hive by adding boxes and a queen excluder, to produce a condition where they don't have enough queen substance, however you don't want to add too many since the queen will get left down in the cold

the unmated queen can crawl where she wants and she will rock her world, she will


----------



## Robert Hawkins (May 27, 2005)

I didn't mean they'll protect the queen in a fight against another queen. They'll protect her as part of the hive. They bees know which queen blengs in the hive. If you had put that queen inside a queenright hive instead of on a stump, the bees would kill her. 

And Jalal, even in a spread out hive, the queen will smell the new queen and go after her. You'll have to use excluders. But good luck,

Hawk


----------



## peggjam (Mar 4, 2005)

What you saw when the two queens were fighting is natural. The workers assumed the caged queen won and that's why they accepted her. Inside the hive is a whole different matter. They know when they have queen cells, and when they don't. Introduction of a queen cell that didn't orginate from the hive it is put into is an alarming thing to the bees, and they will not accept it unless they are queenless. You will be lucky if the workers don't ball her when she is released. What you will end up with is a starved queen that won't stand a chance against a queen that is well fed, and in better shape. You may get one or two to survie, but not much better than that. It doesn't matter how cheap the cells were, it's still money lost.

peggjam


----------



## jalal (Sep 2, 2004)

what about in the case that the virgin is the daughter









its possible, very unlikely unless they are wanting to supercede anyway though than its just unlikely


----------



## raybo1331 (Apr 4, 2002)

i always put my queen cells,one day or two days before hatching right in the middel of a frame of capped brood an put that frame to the outside of the brood nest you know the queen has no scent for the four hours or so, this gives her the time needed to do her thing. i do it like this , also im looking for four to five queen cells asap, any help out there


----------



## John Russell (Aug 8, 2003)

Results posted in new thread on main forum....sorry...couldnt find this one to save my life untill someone posted the link....


J.R.


----------

