# Customer Dissatisfaction



## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Well hate to break it to you but businesses don't throw away perfectly good clients for no reason.

They've just decided to cut their losses.

The "kid", is likely because they have a limited budget to pay wages and they have hired someone who will eventually be trained, but doesn't know everything yet. I'm in business, sometimes you have to hire less knowledgeable people and give them a break.

I don't know anything about this case other than your side of the story. But I can say that for me, although I've never blacklisted anyone, there are a few customers I would be better without. They are demanding and time wasting, and seem completely out of touch with the idea that I actually have to make some money or I could not continue the business. It can help to look from the other guys viewpoint. If you consider how much actual profit they made on whatever they sold you (and were you picky and rejected some of their product, which is a cost), and compare that to the amount of time and grief you have cost them, do you think they could reasonably survive?

And not spelling out to you their reason for blacklisting you, does not mean they don't actually have a reason. It means they think telling you will just be grounds for more argument. They cannot be bothered with even more argument, they are done with you.

You now have the option to deal with any of the other suppliers. My advice? Treat them how you would like to be treated, allow for the fact we are all just human and sometimes everything is not perfect.


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## RiodeLobo (Oct 11, 2010)

Oldtimer: Words to live by.:applause:


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## cerezha (Oct 11, 2011)

As a customer, I have my own black-mail list for the companies I do not want to have deal with. It includes Delta Airlines and some others. But I do not think, that the business, which supposed to provide services to public (selling stuff in this case) has the same rights as an individual customer. Even if it is private business, offering services/goods to the public brings some responsibilities to the business owner. If these responsibilities are not fulfilled, there are ways to correct the problem. I would contact consumer protection agency and local chamber of commerce. Also, if purchase was made with credit card - it is good idea to call them to see what they think. If they are on your side, than they could consider the same approach - to put that "businessman" in the blackmail list as s/he did it for you. I think, it is fair. I also think that it is important to share customer experience.


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## beeman2009 (Aug 23, 2012)

Words of wisdom Oldtimer. I too am in business and have experienced this with help more times than I care to remember. And like you, I've had customers I'd rather not deal with and a few I refused to deal with! Only heard one side of this story but I'd say cut your loses and buy somewhere else. After all if service is that bad, WHY would you want to do business with them.

BTW I have been buying from Brushy Mt for over 5 years, never had the first problem. :scratch:


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

sfamous said:


> including unreasonable hours of waiting, that should've taken 20 mins.


Have you been to a doctor lately ... eventually you will pay him upwords of 150 bucks for waiting. Be thankful it was just a kid, that might cost you 7.50. If a person knew everything there is to know about beekeeping would you expect him / her to be working in a warehouse?


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## westernbeekeeper (May 2, 2012)

I have had great past experiences with Brushy Mountain. Nothing like yours, sfamous. I sure don't agree with the action taken, but then again, I'm not the manager. But I do know Mr. Gebauar (Shane) fairly well; nice guy he is.


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## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

As a dealer I would have to side with what Oldtimer stated. Why should they have to push the button as a dealer. Get the clue and buy else where.


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## jbeshearse (Oct 7, 2009)

cerezha said:


> As a customer, I have my own black-mail list for the companies I do not want to have deal with. It includes Delta Airlines and some others. But I do not think, that the business, which supposed to provide services to public (selling stuff in this case) has the same rights as an individual customer. Even if it is private business, offering services/goods to the public brings some responsibilities to the business owner. If these responsibilities are not fulfilled, there are ways to correct the problem. I would contact consumer protection agency and local chamber of commerce. Also, if purchase was made with credit card - it is good idea to call them to see what they think. If they are on your side, than they could consider the same approach - to put that "businessman" in the blackmail list as s/he did it for you. I think, it is fair. I also think that it is important to share customer experience.


Cerezha,

You can certainly complain, blacklist, etc. What you can't do is misrepresent what the company has or has not done. They are in business to earn money, not tick people off. If they want sell to you, they have a real reason, period. This was escalated and the managers upheld the original decision. There are discrimination laws, but unless those are the reason for the rejection, they are within their legal rights to not do business with you. One thing I have found through the years, is that an unhappy, unreasonable customer is a liability, no matter what you do to pacify them. They still want more and still drag your good name through the mud. It is best to cut your losses, meet your reasonable obligations to them, then end the relationship. I imagine that is just what happened in this case.

I do not know the specifics in this case, and none were offered. Just a vague complaint about misreatment. As such, I cannot assign any validity to it.


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## bosco500 (Sep 27, 2012)

sfamous said:


> I don't know how many of you have had the unpleasant experience of trying to get an order done correctly from Brushy Mtn.'s New Columbia retail location, but I've had nothing but bad experiences, including unreasonable hours of waiting, that should've taken 20 mins., constant screw-ups on making sure the order was correct, due to no quality control there, and that they hired a kid, that works in the warehouse pulling orders, that doesn't know the first thing about beekeeping equipment. I complained to the headquarter's management, and after speaking to the store's manager to verify my story, they have decided to "black list" me and are refusing to allow me to do business with them. When I called and asked why, the lady I spoke to told me she checked the file and the store's manager, J.W., was definitely the one that initiated the action, but gave no reason and left no notes why. So I asked her to check with the upper level mangement...she did and this was her reply:
> 
> Mr. Famous,
> 
> ...


I don't know the whole story but I would recommend taking your business elsewhere. They obviously don't want it, why would you want to give it to them? There are plenty of dealers out there that would love a new customer.


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## Splatt (Jul 11, 2012)

Brushy Mountain has only slightly goofed one of my orders, and they took my word and corrected it immediately.


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## Gord (Feb 8, 2011)

What Oldtimer said.
They're cutting their losses; you have to admit they were very polite about it.


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## GLOCK (Dec 29, 2009)

Well i've been in business{my own restaurant} for over 20 years and in the restaurants since i was 12 and i can tell ya customers are not allways right they can blow things out of portion if i was to fire every employee a customer told me did some thing wrong to there food or was rude i'd have to hire every other month. Most people are great but there's that 10 percent ya just can't make happy with out giving them something.
Brushy Mountain has done well with me and i've orded 3 times from them and i'm sure i'll order again.
Oldtimer your so right some customers are not worth the stress.


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## S. Rummings (Nov 2, 2012)

I ordered from them recently and had a couple minor issues with the order. All it took was a phone call and everything was corrected quickly and cheerfully. They didn't even require anything be returned. My entire time on the phone including the time it took me to dial was less than 5 minutes. 
While I can't say they were perfect, I realize I ordered on an extremely busy day and I got the order quickly.
I will be ordering from them again.


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## cerezha (Oct 11, 2011)

jbeshearse said:


> ... What you can't do is misrepresent what the company has or has not done. They are in business to earn money, not tick people off. If they want sell to you, they have a real reason, period. This was escalated and the managers upheld the original decision. There are discrimination laws, but unless those are the reason for the rejection, they are within their legal rights to not do business with you. One thing I have found through the years, is that an unhappy, unreasonable customer is a liability, no matter what you do to pacify them. They still want more and still drag your good name through the mud. It is best to cut your losses, meet your reasonable obligations to them, then end the relationship. I imagine that is just what happened in this case...


 I basically agree. My point was that as much as business suffered from "bad" customers, in the same way customers suffer from bad business practices. I do not think, it is the customer, who made business's life miserable - it is more personality. One same person cold be horrible customer and nasty customer service representative. I do not like the idea that all businesses are great, but customers are bad. Also, I do not believe that in such conflict one side is absolutely right and another - completely wrong. I think that truth is somewhere between.


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

Famous, 
As a package bee producer, seller and shipper I can attest to the old adage that 1% of the customers cause 90% of the "problems" 
In our business its usually the person who hand released a queen right when they opened the package and now wants a free queen or its someone who didn't read our "contract" before they hit the "buy" button. They make up 99% of our irate customers. If customers give us a prompt notification that there is an issue within the parameters they purchased under we very work hard on trying to make it right. When someone wants their money back for "dead" bees because they failed to feed a package properly when it rained for 3 days straight at 40 degrees I often wonder why people toss their money at something they aren't willing to invest their time in. My advice is find someone new to purchase from and keep your "attitude" in check especially if things aren't perfect with their service or your order.


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## jadell (Jun 19, 2011)

If you meet three jerks in one place, maybe you're the jerk. And that's the PG version.


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## sfamous (Mar 30, 2010)

Clearly not one of you even read the question, because not one of you mentioned making a purchase specifically at this retail location or the manager that stays there during business hours. If I just wanted random opinions from people that can't read, I'd just go to the local Adult Educ. Night program and interview them personally. Come on folks, get with it....reading is fundamental.


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## bosco500 (Sep 27, 2012)

sfamous said:


> Clearly not one of you even read the question, because not one of you mentioned making a purchase specifically at this retail location or the manager that stays there during business hours. If I just wanted random opinions from people that can't read, I'd just go to the local Adult Educ. Night program and interview them personally. Come on folks, get with it....reading is fundamental.


No wonder you got turned away. Why are you posting to public internet forums if you don't want opinions on your post?


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Thanks for the insight sfamous. Those of us who may not have been sure how your encounter with them might have played out perhaps now have a better understanding.


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## sfamous (Mar 30, 2010)

Clearly I'm fishing for swordfish in a kiddie pool....forget it.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

sfamous said:


> OK, so if I'm supposed to be aware of the reason why, how come he didn't even notate the file for their own staff to know why? There's only one logical answer...*there is no good reason.*


Here's a clue .... _*your attitude*_. :no:



sfamous said:


> If I just wanted random opinions from people that can't read, I'd just go to the local Adult Educ. Night program and interview them personally.


:digging:


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## danpunch (Feb 1, 2012)

sfamous said:


> Clearly not one of you even read the question, because not one of you mentioned making a purchase specifically at this retail location or the manager that stays there during business hours. If I just wanted random opinions from people that can't read, I'd just go to the local Adult Educ. Night program and interview them personally. Come on folks, get with it....reading is fundamental.


You are now blacklisted from me as well


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

sfamous said:


> Clearly I'm fishing for swordfish in a kiddie pool....forget it.


....if there were doubts before.....


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

sfamous said:


> If I just wanted random opinions from people that can't read, I'd just go to the local Adult Educ. Night program and interview them personally.


That seems disrespectful...


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

jadell said:


> If you meet three jerks in one place, maybe you're the jerk. And that's the PG version.


Got my vote.....


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

sfamous said:


> Clearly I'm fishing for swordfish in a kiddie pool....forget it.


Don't quit now ... you are just getting the hang of it!



sfamous said:


> I don't know how many of you have had the unpleasant experience of trying to get an order done correctly from Brushy Mtn.'s *New Columbia* retail location ..


With a little more practice, you can get the Town of New Columbia to deny you access to the entire town.

:ws:


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## jrhoto (Mar 2, 2009)

I have delt a great deal with Brushy Mtn. and have found them to be reasonable and most helpful even if it may have been my fault.


www.poorvalleybeefarm.com


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

If you weren't "So famous" on this forum you are now. WOW! I wake up to this... Surprised the computer didn't crash with laughter on its own last night. 

Welcome to the world "notorious" 

You came here claiming to be looking for "advice" and haven't seem to get what you wanted. I apologize. WA-Wa-Wa. In hindsight what I think you were really looking for someone to confirm why you were unhappy with BM. Sorry you didn't get consent. Looks like most folks are happy with them. My experience with them has been online only and we got our stuff... They get a B+ rating from me. No tears or spats of fits regarding bad service from me. 

As for the rest of your recent responses: 

*There are two types of advice. General and specific*. Beesource and life contains both. *Those who are unable to learn from the "general" and figure it out from there need specific advice.* Many folks here tried to give general advice so you could "figure it out yourself" regarding your situation. I doubt you would either accept or "learn" from specific advice even if it had been given regarding your situation. ( considering your recent tirade).

Its a sunny day in northern California. Old saying ("advice" for those of you living North of Phili ) says make hay when the sun shines so I think I'm out of here to check hives and toss on syrup as needed.


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## GLOCK (Dec 29, 2009)

sfamous said:


> Clearly I'm fishing for swordfish in a kiddie pool....forget it.


You asked for it should try to contribute to beekeeping and not beat up on a company that works hard for beekeepers and the bees.
I know in todays times thing are alot harder to make money and sometimes the money is not worth the stress the customer causes .
I see you can stump you feet can't you?
Hope you get along with your bees.


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## keswickb (Jun 8, 2012)

You can caught move bees with honey,than using vinegar!!


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

sfamous,
You Posted your encounter from your point of view and explained and illustrated things from your point of view. I still don't know what you did wrong, but I don't have Brushy Mountain PA's point of view. So, I only have part of the story. So, what do you want from us? Advice? Agreement? A shoulder to cry on? Unmitigated support?

I believe you have gotten good advice from a number of people on this Forum, starting w/ Oldtimer.

Patronize another supplier. Get over it. Move on. Try BetterBee. They are under new management. Dadant in Waverly,NY is a good group of guys to work with.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

sfamous said:


> Clearly I'm fishing for swordfish in a kiddie pool....forget it.


just a hunch here, . . . . .


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## jbeshearse (Oct 7, 2009)

sfamous said:


> Clearly not one of you even read the question, because not one of you mentioned making a purchase specifically at this retail location or the manager that stays there during business hours. If I just wanted random opinions from people that can't read, I'd just go to the local Adult Educ. Night program and interview them personally. Come on folks, get with it....reading is fundamental.


And with that one response (not even considering the swordfish remark) you confirm our our assumptions.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

sfamous said:


> Clearly I'm fishing for swordfish in a kiddie pool....forget it.


I believe it is you who are out of your depth.


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## jbeshearse (Oct 7, 2009)

sfamous said:


> Clearly I'm fishing for swordfish in a kiddie pool....forget it.


So who's fault is it that you are not catching swordfish? The fish, the pool, or the fisherman?


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## Ledge (Dec 15, 2010)

sfamous said:


> Clearly not one of you even read the question, because not one of you mentioned making a purchase specifically at this retail location or the manager that stays there during business hours. If I just wanted random opinions from people that can't read, I'd just go to the local Adult Educ. Night program and interview them personally. Come on folks, get with it....reading is fundamental.


I wasn't 100% sure what the real issue was when I read your original post. Now I know beyond a shadow of a doubt what the real problem was.


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## Ledge (Dec 15, 2010)

sfamous said:


> Clearly I'm fishing for swordfish in a kiddie pool....forget it.


Silly bean, you need to get off shore to catch the big ones. Unfortunately, it looks like your vessel won't stand up to heavy seas though.


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## giant pumpkin peep (Mar 14, 2009)

If your attitude towards us is anything like your attitude towards brushy I certainly can't blame them. You strike me as one of those folks who the whole department knows your there and employees take turns dealing with you. Some of the bee supplys, especially the smaller ones, can be a wealth of knowledge, and can save your rear in a pinch. Dont burn bridges.


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## Radar (Sep 4, 2006)

Sometime in all of our lives we have been the "kid" who knows nothing, most of us get through it.

All of us come into this world knowing nothing, with the possible exception of the OP.


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## mac (May 1, 2005)

sfamous said:


> Has anyone else had such an experience with this store/manager?? .


NO


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## Gord (Feb 8, 2011)

"If I just wanted random opinions from people that can't read, I'd just go to the local Adult Educ. Night program and interview them personally."

Dude

Why not go down to your local Adult Education night program and enroll in a Dale Carnegie course?
They will teach you how not to be a famous ignoranus.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Gord said:


> They will teach you how not to be a famous ignoranus.


I love this comment! 

I'm just not sure whether you intended to say _ignoramus _or _ignoranus_. But it seems either will fit. :lookout:


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

sfamous said:


> OK, so if I'm supposed to be aware of the reason why, how come he didn't even notate the file for their own staff to know why? There's only one logical answer...there is no good reason.


The reason why is seen in your messages back to us. 

You also failed to say what happened while you were dealing with Brushy Mountain, was there a reason for this?




sfamous said:


> Clearly not one of you even read the question, because not one of you mentioned making a purchase specifically at this retail location or the manager that stays there during business hours. If I just wanted random opinions from people that can't read, I'd just go to the local Adult Educ. Night program and interview them personally. Come on folks, get with it....reading is fundamental.





sfamous said:


> Clearly I'm fishing for swordfish in a kiddie pool....forget it.



sfamous *be careful or you wont be able to purchase bee supplies from anyone*. They are probably black listing you now. 

:ws: (change the "we'r" to You Are)


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## millerdrr (Dec 5, 2012)

FlowerPlanter said:


> *be careful or you wont be able to purchase bee supplies from anyone*. They are probably black listing you now.


I was thinking about posting that same thing yesterday. Miller Bee Supply is barely a dozen miles from Brushy Mountain. I grew up in that town, literally across the street from Miller's. I've seen lots of local businesses refuse to deal with problem customers over the years.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I wonder if some foul language was used. Maybe that's the source of sfamous' problem.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

sqkcrk said:


> I wonder if some foul language was used. Maybe that's the source of sfamous' problem.


Let's ask Colonel Mustard, I think he was there. Yeah, it was Colonel Mustard and Mr. Famous, at Brushy Mountain, with a candlestick... 

Let's not speculate too much.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Okay. I just wondered what someone would have to do to get banned as a customer. Seems like some sort of abuse would have to have been involved. And most likely verbal abuse, unless communications occured in written form.

We had Brushy Mountain Bee Supplys from PA at our Fall Mtng in Syracuse a month ago. I spent some time w/ their Sales Staff. Right nice and professional people. I would have no problem ordering from them.


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## B-Rant (Nov 8, 2012)

FlowerPlanter said:


> sfamous *be careful or you wont be able to purchase bee supplies from anyone*. They are probably black listing you now.


I'm contemplating opening a bee supply store just so I can blacklist him.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

I have been to both Brushy Mtn Locations and had great dealings with absolutely everyone in the stores. I know the Manager you're talking about, I've dealt with him several times and every time I'm treated like the only cutomer he has. I ordered our 5 frame nuc boxes from him 2 years ago and he made sure he had them in stock just in case I needed them in 2012. The "kid" as you called him, was a little bit of the deer in the headlights and I could see he was new. When we was going over our order at the warehouse door two weeks ago, as an adult, I took a quick moment to go over everything with him in detail and with a smile. I hope it made his day! It made our dealing good, hopefully improved his skills and will make the next customer interaction a bit better. That's pretty much how 99.9% of the Beeks I know would have handled it and for the same reason. This on the 1st leg of a 700 mile trip we are always in hurry to complete. I've been in the store when it is busy, had to wait 20 minutes - Of course for me, even in a rush, a few minutes to look around their well stocked store just gives me some ideas to for future improvements. Steve Forrest made a point to meet me when I came to the NC store and I have had numerous interchanges with Shane - Both when he was at Better Bee and now at Brushy Mtn. Recently I had a man purchase pollen at one of our NYC locations. He sent me a blistering e-mail about how rude my market manager was to him, how he did not feel he could buy products from her and that I needed to do something. This loyal manager has been with us 4 years, dealt with several thousand customers and never a complaint. I sent him instructions on how to use the pollen and wished him the best of luck in the future wherever he shopped. I judged him on her past but also on how he presented the complaint to me. It was clear he was not interested in helping my business or improving his experinence but in causing difficluty to her.
When I have a bad experiance the 1st place I go is the bathroom, I have full lenth mirror there and find it is very revealing! Most of my dealings are good not just because someone else is doing a great job but also like me, everyone has a bad day now and then. I've learned when I see this, someone without a smile....... I give them one of mine and usually things go well.


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