# Defatted vs Expeller Soyflour



## John Davis (Apr 29, 2014)

Ian when I was looking for pollen substitute ingredients what I found was soybeans contain some enzymes that prevent the usage of a couple of the amino acids. These enzymes are destroyed by heating (to about 305 F). The expeller process heats the soy meal and runs it through a screw press (the expeller) to squeeze out the hot oil, leaving the meal in good shape for animal feed. The other process is to use a solvent to extract the oil. Both could be 'defatted".


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Guess I'm calling the dafatted, solvent process and the expeller as the cold press.

Is there any disadvantages of using the defatted/solvent soyflour for the bees?


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## John Davis (Apr 29, 2014)

The expeller is a usually a hot press that both destroys the problematic enzymes and removes more oil. Some preheat the beans or meal, the energy used to compress the meal is also adding to the temp increase, think about how an air compressor increases the temp of the air in the storage tank. Cold pressing would seem to require additional processing of the meal or flour to destroy the enzymes.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

The cold press method maintains temps at 90degrees, which I'm speaking. 
But regardless,
is there harm done when feeding the solvent processed meal as soyflour ?


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

"Pollen and Pollen Substitutes in the Nutrition of the Honeybee"
by Mykola H. Haydak

I can email you the PDF or you can search it (I could not seem to find it online anymore)

Page 12;
Control was bee bread
Shows several types of soy flower and mortality and brood raised;
Expeller and low fat; fair mortality rate and fair brood raised
Solvent method soy flour, heated, unheated, different fat % and different ingredients added.

The best was solvent soy method, heated, 5.5% fat, with powered milk and egg yolks 10%. low mortality and very high brood count.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Thx guys 
Appreciate the feedback:thumbsup:


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## Ben Little (Apr 9, 2012)

following


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

"Hello Ian, defatting soybean is a process that uses organic solvents. Thought the solvents are removed but in many cases some traces are left. These traces of solvents can kill bees. Different companies use different solvent and they never tell you what solvent is used. Therefore risks are higher. However expelling process is based on centrifugation of the soy flour to let the oil out. It is similar to getting fat out of milk. This process is natural and no risks to bees. Hope this helps."


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

Maybe that explains why the heated after solvent process was so much better (lower mortality and higher brood) in the study above, the last of the solvents are cooked out.

I wonder if different commercial pollen subs are using different types of soy? May be why some are way better than others.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

FlowerPlanter said:


> I wonder if different commercial pollen subs are using different types of soy? May be why some are way better than others.


Me thinks so.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Which do you recommend Keith?


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Ian said:


> Which do you recommend Keith?


Ian, that's tough to answer, one would have to know the profile of the sub in order the match up with the missing voids. I shoot for a 80-85% value, so most of what I look for is going to be rich in nutrients.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

How fine does the soymeal need to be pulverized in order for it to be accessible to the bees ?


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Very fine. That is the selling point of Ultra Bee(I think it is that brand). They make the claim that the ingredients have to be milled very fine in order that the bees have the ingredients pass through the bees digestive system easily. I would agree with them. Some patties that have a lot of soya or brewers yeast and can bung the bees up. This is noticeable in cool wet climates, like in our area. In warmer areas bees can fly more often and void themselves as needed reducing the problems associated with coarser milled ingredients. We have less issues in the late spring early summer if we have more soya in the patties. When we our patties now it is pollen sugar water and a little bit of soya to help bing all the other ingredients together.

Jean-Marc


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

jean-marc said:


> Very fine. That is the selling point of


There are a lot out there selling....FLUFF. Look at the bottom boards, I hear this all the time where the sub is getting kick out onto the ground.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

What micron size is best for the bees digestion ?


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