# Walnut Leaf Smoke for Varroa control



## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

Anyone hear of using Walnut leaf smoke for Varroa control? I came across a SARE (Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education) project back in 2003/4 proposing the testing of Walnut leaf smoke as a control agent for Varroa:

http://www.sare.org/reporting/report_viewer.asp?pn=FNE03-485

Er... anyone catch a whiff of this?

George-


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## guatebee (Nov 15, 2004)

I am convinced that much more research ought to be done on naturally occurring pesticides.
A long time ago I read a serious Companion Planting book, where they prescribed "tobacco tea" to be sprayed on aphids. The book claimed tobacco is a powerful insecticide. I never tried it myself, but I strongly doubt the person writing about it was bluffing.
So why not try walnut leaf smoke on varroa?
Why not try anything on varroa?
Research doesn´t mean just labs and microscopes and glass vials and precision doses of whatever!
Research also means to be observing, and if something works, just go for it!!

You may wonder if funny smelling smokes will damage or contaminate the honey. Well, where on earth is there proven evidence that your accostumed smoker fuel doesn´t?

Or for that matter, how do we know plain pine wood used for frames and other parts is not dumping some minute resin that some lunatic-fanatic-hyperscientist will some day claim to be injurious to your health?

Let´s dear go back to basics and find our own trial-and-error wisdom, instead of relying on scientific certainty... to the best of our knowledge.


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

I've been using walnut wood chips in my smoker for a couple of months now because it burns so good. I have plenty of mites. I think smoke in general knocks some mites down. It would be good if they could get a study done on what smoke knocks mites down best, that way we could always use that in our smokers as part of an IPM strategy. But I doubt anything in the smoker will take care of enough mites, from what I have read.


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## guatebee (Nov 15, 2004)

Integrated Pest Management (IPM)is precisely a combination of methods, because "only one blow rarely kills the bull".
Smoke from walnut or other "active ingredient containing leaves", plus screen bottoms plus powder sugar sound like a good combination.

Just do not try marihuana smoke or any other stuff that will knock YOU down!


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Smoke your arm the next time you can. You can still smell the residue hours later. Coating the bees with sumac, walnut, tobacco, or anything else will enhance the bees natural grooming and hygenic behavior. Same with oil products. Whether its essential oils or grease patties, the bees track the stuff around, and then groom each other, all the while knocking off mites. I highly doubt smoke on a level needed to kill the mites could be achieved, without harm to the bees.

Some leaves and products are higher irritants to the bees and mites. And some have more residue. So of course some things seem to have a higher impact on the mites. But its the "act" of smoking, and coating the bees with a residue that helps in the fight against mites.

Heavy smoking, enhancing the hygenic/grooming behavior in bees, and bottom boards, all help in the battle with mites.


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## NW IN Beekeeper (Jun 29, 2005)

Another interesting idea is that the green husks of black walnuts can be used to make a solution by which intestinal parasites can be killed. The active chemical is only found in the green husk of nuts in the fall and rapidly degrades as winter nears. 

My thought is that the leaves of walnut trees may contain chemicals that are only found in the leaves, not the bark, pith wood or anywhere else. 

This may also align with Bjornbee's idea of residue. Often leaves are more "oily" than other parts of the plant. Also, herbs for instance, sometimes plants have specific periods of certain chemical production. Most essential oils are detrived from plants in or about to bloom. Being that nuts are the fruit of trees you can start to draw your own conclusions. 

Suppose I'm going to have a few balding walnut trees in my yard soon!


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## Robert Brenchley (Apr 23, 2000)

Natural homemade pesticides are very effective as insect killers; rhubarb infusion is a classic one. They're all illegal in the UK, thanks I believe to the number of peoplewho were being killed by tobacco-based insecicide. The problem is, of course, that you can't control the dose accurately. When it comes to kiling the mites and not the bees, dosage control is vital.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

Tobacco smoke also has the added effect of nicotine which knocks down mites. Keep in mind in slightly higher doses of tobacco (nicotine) also is toxic to bees.


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## honeyman46408 (Feb 14, 2003)

"rhubarb infusion"
Tell me more I have lots of rhubarb


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## JohnBeeMan (Feb 24, 2004)

From one of the gardening site on black walnuts:
"Now the Black walnut basics. The trees contain a natural substance called juglone that inhibits the growth of many plants (or just plain kills them). Its contained in every part of the treebark, wood, leavesbut it is strongest in the roots."

Being a woodworker I do know that walnut shavings will kill grass, flowers and vegies so is unusable for mulch. Also, walnut wood tends to be resistant to insect damage for the same reasons. 

I would think twice about using it in the smoker.


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

I smoked some hives heavily with the walnut wood chips smoke a couple of days ago after getting 100 mite a day counts. I was thinking more about what Bjornbee said about smoke in general. It makes alot of sense. I took other actions too, of course. 

Pine needles are supposed to help keep fleas down when used as dog bedding, but how many people use that for a smoker? Also the todler bed I just made out of walnut branches has insect trails through it. So I really don't think its that toxic to insects. Could be wrong, but not worried. I'll look for any evidence of dead brood. I really smoked them up!


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## Robert Brenchley (Apr 23, 2000)

Crush some rhubarb leaves and steep them in water overnight. Then spray on your pests.I've only used it in small quantities, using a leaf to a couple of litres of water, which doesn't really give me much idea of the concentration needed. If you want bigger quantities, experiment. Alternatively, another time I might just make an oxalic solution and spray that. It's not something I use very often, but it's a useful last resort.


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## Robert Brenchley (Apr 23, 2000)

I've been asked for the mixture for oxalic spray. Use 75g of oxalic acid dihydrate (which is what's normally sold as oxalic acid) and 1Kg of sugar, and dissolve in 1 litre of water. It won't harm varroa in sealed cells, so it's best used in winter or during a broodbreak. Otherwise it can be used as a quick knockdown, but I've read that each generation of bees can only take one dose without serious bee kill. I haven't put this to the test (and don't intend to!), but it makes sense since it's a corrosive acid, and apprarently damages the cuticle. I wouldn't use it too often.


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## boddah (Dec 20, 2013)

This is interesting. I find the natural remedies to pests to be the most interesting. It is also obvious why they aren't reported or approved... because its much harder to make a buck off walnut leaves. 

The black walnut is the highest producer of juglone. I believe it is the juglone which is anti-parasitic. Walnut husks (look like tennis balls) are used in folk remedies for internal parasites. Other trees produce juglone in much smaller quantities like Hickory. If you were worried about toxicity you might want to experiment with one of those first. 

I am a newbie to bees and I had read that they prefer full sun, but that didn't really jive with feral hives I have seen hanging from trees. I placed one of my first hives under walnut. I figured it would have the above listed uses just in it being there. (Also in gardening aromatic plants are considered to be 'confusing' to pests; the walnut being aromatic and anti parasitic I figured it would aid in pest control.) Walnut also leafs out late so the bees would get good spring sun, and loses leaves early, therby giving fall sun. Alas my hive died, but so did the one not under the walnut. 


As to the person who said you can't make reliable doses, I don't agree with that. You just need to try hard and pay attention. Of course there will be variance plant to plant in potency but that doesn't mean you can't make a quality product once you know your materials. 

Oh and don't be confused. I find a lot of people like to bash the walnut for juglone but I find that in a forest or large yard (say 1/4 acre +) its not a big deal. Plenty can grow under walnuts. Just not certain plants. The walnut therefore helps you select what plants to put around it. Its very useful. 


In the end I don't know exactly what I'm adding to the discussion, but it would be nice if government would sponsor home researchers to try out non-profitable/patentable techniques. But alas they are in bed with industry and will only dole out megabucks so they can patent poisons to sell us as baby food.


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## spreerider (Jun 23, 2013)

Nicotine is a deadly poision to all living organisms it has the lowest LD50 of any pesticide that is even remotly safe to use but affects all living things in the same ways, i would not think it would be safe for bees.





guatebee said:


> I am convinced that much more research ought to be done on naturally occurring pesticides.
> A long time ago I read a serious Companion Planting book, where they prescribed "tobacco tea" to be sprayed on aphids. The book claimed tobacco is a powerful insecticide. I never tried it myself, but I strongly doubt the person writing about it was bluffing.
> So why not try walnut leaf smoke on varroa?
> Why not try anything on varroa?
> ...


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## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

MichaelW said:


> I smoked some hives heavily with the walnut wood chips smoke a couple of days ago after getting 100 mite a day counts. I was thinking more about what Bjornbee said about smoke in general. It makes alot of sense. I took other actions too, of course.
> 
> Pine needles are supposed to help keep fleas down when used as dog bedding, but how many people use that for a smoker? Also the todler bed I just made out of walnut branches has insect trails through it. So I really don't think its that toxic to insects. Could be wrong, but not worried. I'll look for any evidence of dead brood. I really smoked them up!


Have you checked the hive again yet? What happened?


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## dudelt (Mar 18, 2013)

spreerider said:


> Nicotine is a deadly poision to all living organisms it has the lowest LD50 of any pesticide that is even remotly safe to use but affects all living things in the same ways, i would not think it would be safe for bees.


Has anyone else noticed how similar nicotine and neonicotinoid are? I believe the answer as to whether tobacco would be good for killing the mites is rather obvious. Yes it will kill the mites, it works great at killing bees too. Tobacco juice also kills tent caterpillars, yellow jackets, aphids, and a host of other insects. It was recommended by Jerry Baker the gardener/author as a pest control over 40 years ago


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