# Bleach in Feed????



## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

In another thread it was brought up that large commercial operators add bleach to their syrup. Makes sense if the concentration is low enough.

Can anyone verify this??? If so the rate of 1 gal to 500 gal was mentioned. Is this a good rate?? 1 ounce to 4.17 gallons.


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## Panhandle Bee man (Oct 22, 2003)

I add it to syrup, holds off the mold. Bees still take up the syrup, and I haven't seen any ill effects to the bees. Caveat, I only feed in the winter Jan-early Feb. And my bees still can fly almost every day. I am not sure I would add it to bee's that I expected to overwinter on the syrup. The ammount sounds about right.


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## JBJ (Jan 27, 2005)

You sound dubious Sundance? We were sharing a holding yard and we even worked off the same tank for convenience reasons. I watch him mix it myself and the bees eagerly ate it up. They also add vitamins, peppermint oil, and medications to the mix. Their bees looked great. It is important to use plain Jane unscented or died bleach.

I also know another guy who will spray a 50% bleach to water solution on chalk brood infected comb and bees. They apparently tolerate it well and go on a serious cleaning spree. He said it is the only thing he has found that will clear up chalk brood. I have not personally tried that particular technique, but I would be inclined to trust him, he has been successfully keeping bees 40+ years.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Thanks John...... I was not meaning to insult.  Just want to be double darn sure before I add it in.

What vitamins?? I'd be interested in the amounts of oils and such.


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## Flyer Jim (Apr 22, 2004)

Lots of the old timers around here add bleach to syurp for chalk brood. Some add mineral salt , and it seems to work ok. The salt is not for the chalk brood.

Jim


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## JBJ (Jan 27, 2005)

Here is their recipe; bear in mind I am not wild about Tylan, but this is what they use in the Almonds: 500 gallons syrup, 1 gallon bleach, 1 pint peppermint oil, 5 bottles Tylan, 2lb animal vitamins by Alpharma (Russel). These guys specialize in pollination. He also reminded me to add bleach to the syrup first, then mix well before adding everything else which as been thoroughly mixed with a paint mixer in a 4 gallon bucket with h2o. Some sort of emulsifier might make the oil mix better. These guys have over 80 years experience between father and son.

PS no offense taken.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Thanks John.......... interesting.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

That Tylan concentration sounds pretty high. We use it at about 20% that rate and rarely see any AFB or EFB. I would be careful about using it in syrup any time within three months or so of a surplus honey flow. I had a major packer that had done a lot of testing tell me that the highest tylosin readings were from producers using it in syrup rather than dust. We have been going with a fall dusting of tylan and TM in the spring.


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## JBJ (Jan 27, 2005)

Exactly, the half life of tylan is much longer in syrup. Also it is not recommended for prophylactic use. These guys really only pollinate and buy honey regularly. They were using this formula in Jan & Feb. for the almond pollination.


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## JBJ (Jan 27, 2005)

What I find fascinating is the amount of chlorine the bees can withstand. When my friend told me about using the 50:50 mix for chalk brood I thought he was exterminating a very infected colony. I did not expect the story to end with "the bees cleaned house and thrived."


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## Dale Hodges (Jul 13, 2007)

*keeping oils mixed*

If you'll buy a bottle of Lecithin...1200 mg sofgels... it will keep the oil mixed in the syrup. I use one sofcap to the gallon, shake reeeeal goood. Its what honey-be- healthy uses.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

I would have to agree with Jlyon,

We use about one tylan to 500 gals, but maybe that to thin?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I would think you could use a lot less bleach and still keep the syrup fresh and kill most every other microorganism. A friend who is a Water Operator told me you put a cup of bleach in a five gallon bucket of water and dump the bucket down a well to "shock" the well and kill all the bacteria in it. If one cup will kill all the bacteria in a well, I would think it would work fine in a hundred gallons or more of syrup.


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## JBJ (Jan 27, 2005)

The recommended dosage I have heard is 200 mg Tylan per 20g of powered sugar for dusting. I think this works out to 4.54g per lb of sugar. Three doses 10 days apart for treatment only.


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## wfarler (Jul 9, 2003)

>500 gallons syrup, 1 gallon bleach, 1 pint peppermint oil, 5 bottles Tylan, 2lb animal vitamins by Alpharma (Russel)

The bleach acts on anything biologically active in the syrup to try and sterilize it. Bleach does act on sugars so depending on temperature it would completely react out of the syrup (I think the reaction gives off heat, sugar alcohols and salts) over a varying period of time.

If added soon enough the bleach woud also react on the Tylan and vitamins.

I guess the peppermint oil is to give it that wonderful peppermint-bleach flavor.


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## JBJ (Jan 27, 2005)

They were very clear about mixing the bleach and syrup first so it was well diluted and mixed before the addition of there other ingredients. Chlorine will definitely volatilize very easily and leave the solution as a gas. http://www.resistoflex.com/chlorine_graphs.htm

They felt the peppermint was good for treating tracheal mites. They actually said the bees would take the mixture more quickly without the peppermint. Their annual hive losses out of 3000 are usually under 10%, except for when they occasionally get sprayed while pollinating.


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## JaiPea (Sep 27, 2005)

> I also know another guy who will spray a 50% bleach to water
> solution on chalk brood infected comb and bees.

Spraying the combs would sanitize the open cells and if the bleach killed capped and uncapped brood then no wonder the bees set to housecleaning.

It surprises me that spraying would be done with bees on the comb as that would interfere with solution getting into the cells. It blows me away that bees could survive a 50/50 mix.

FWIW, leaf cutter bees suffer from chalkbrood and it was common to sanitize the cells with bleach (they now do formaldehyde fumigation and the toxic gas requires careful handling).

Chlorox is a 5.25% solution of Sodium Hypochlorite so if that was the bleach used then a 50/50 mix would be a 2.6% concentration. That seems very high for bees to tolerate.


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## Evets (Aug 2, 2007)

I can see using bleach in syrup. I have thought about doing it to prevent mold. It would not take much at all to control mold and bacterial growth...a few drops per gallon. As for using it on comb and equipment it doesn't have to be strong either. Regular household bleach used as a sanitizer is usually mixed at 1/4th cup per gallon of water. At that concentration it will kill just about any pathogen if left on the surface for 15 to 20 minutes. Only some spores will survive it. The great part about bleach as a cleanser is that if you spray it on a surface (at the concentration above) the chlorine will evaporate in a matter of a couple of hours under normal conditions. It has been used for decades for sanitizing surfaces from childrens toys to some medical surfaces to agricultural equipment. It is effective and relatively safe. It is also cheap.

I have considered using vitamins we use to start poultry or on poultry under stress. It comes in a concentrated powdered form that easily mixes with water. I have wondered about it but never experimented with it to see the results.

About antibiotics (re:Tylan). I have worked in medicine most of my life and have become a big believer in not treating with antibiotics unless there is a demonstrated need. I always recommend running a culture and sensativity to make sure that there is a need and that the bacteria is indeed sensitive to the antibiotic. When I do treat humans, animals, or even insects I treat at the maximum safe dose to ensure that the treatment is effective. Please don't prophylactively treat as this only creates resistant organisms. Enough of my soapbox.

Steve


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

Using antibiotics as a preemptive strike is a really bad idea...... We now have strains of HIV that are resistiant to the ****tails....
I add 1 tsp of bleach per gallon of water.....so for a 1.1 mix of 25 lbs sucrose to 25 lbs water I put 2 1/2 tsp.


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## newbee 101 (May 26, 2004)

Doesnt lemon juice prevent mold build up in syrup?
I would rather use that than bleach. 
Whats next, cyanide to kill ants that feed on the syrup?


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## Panhandle Bee man (Oct 22, 2003)

Bleach is in city Tap water, pools, hot tubs. In small ammounts it is a very useful chemical.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Wow, dont treat hive with Tylan through surip. Bad idea!
We are talking serious residues here, much longer than Oxytet!
Our guys do not suggest the use of Tylan with surip, that is if we could without a prescription to do so.
Dusting is the only way to treat Tylan,

And that said, they even suggest us to only treat Tylan in fall time applications, mainly due to the residue concerns.
Lets be careful here,


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## Rob (Mar 29, 2005)

I've just done my first test using bleach in syrup, I only used a mix of 1 / 1000 just to be on the safe side, let you know next week if there's any mold in the jars.


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## Rob (Mar 29, 2005)

Well folks after the 1 / 1000 mix there was still mold in the jars, I've stepped up to 1/500 let you know again next week the results.


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## Oldbee (Sep 25, 2006)

My bees [3 deeps] took up all 3 gallons of syrup within 4 days. Why do you need bleach in the syrup??


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## Billy Y. (Feb 1, 2005)

*Vinegar?*

I have always used about 1/4 cup of white vinegar to a 5 gal batch of syrup.

Increases the acidity of the syrup and prevents mold.

Dunno about bleach as I only use it to clean equipment and never have fed it to bees. I always thought bees utilize chlorine to an extent as they seem to have an affinity for treated pool water.


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## ian m davison (Jan 21, 2007)

Hi all

Thymol works well as an additive to feed, not only is it well proven and stops feed turning sour it also has been shown to reduce Nosema.

Melt some Thymol with a little surgical spirit and add 1 teaspoon to a gallon.


Regards Ian


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## JBJ (Jan 27, 2005)

The guys I originally got that 500:1 recipe from claim it is effective against Nosema.


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## Rob (Mar 29, 2005)

*New Results*

the 1 : 500 solution I did has worked, no mold in the jars, I'd left the jars for longer than usual and still no mold.

Only thing I've noticed is the syrup without bleach is a dark green colour, but the syrup with bleach changes to a light brown colour.

I'm also worried about traces of bleach being traced in the honey, I'm thinking is it worth it just so I don't get mold in the jars.


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

*bleach*

Rob:

If someine were to do an analysis of your honey and find bleach residue you'd be in a very good position to answer your own question.

Jean-Marc


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

*Sucrose*

That sounds about right. The bees evaporate the sucrose a little bit to get it down to the right moisture level. I've not observed this with hfcs. So if you can,feed the sucrose sooner in the season, so they have more time to process it.

Jean-Marc


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