# nosema-equipment



## DANIEL QUINCE (Jan 15, 2006)

Would methylic alcohol sterilize the equipment from a nosema infected hive? (dipping) How about freezing?
Thanks
Daniel


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## HVH (Feb 20, 2008)

DANIEL QUINCE said:


> Would methylic alcohol sterilize the equipment from a nosema infected hive? (dipping) How about freezing?
> Thanks
> Daniel


Daniel,

It could be that nobody really has an answer to your questions. If you really have to have an answer, you should do a literature search to find a good lab doing NC research, and then call up that lab with your questions.

Good Luck


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## LSPender (Nov 16, 2004)

*Ck other posts*

Search previous posts about nosema A. & C. some of the posts deal with fumigation.

Larry


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Would methylic alcohol sterilize the equipment from a nosema infected 
hive?

It seems likely, but I don't know.

>How about freezing?

It seems VERY unlikely. Nosema leaves spores. Spores are usually pretty hardy.


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## DANIEL QUINCE (Jan 15, 2006)

Thank You!


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## DANIEL QUINCE (Jan 15, 2006)

*Lab Oppinion*

I called a lab. While they do not have literature on the subject, one technician when trying to infect the bees with nosema accidentally put the spors in methanol instead of water and all the spores died. They also said that they had difficulties keeping the nosema spores alive for a long period of time, and they see them as easy to kill. They are 99% positive that the alcohol (methyl or ethylic) will kill them.
Thank you
Daniel


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## Dan Williamson (Apr 6, 2004)

I believe Randy Oliver had an article in the ABJ about this very topic in the latest issue.


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## CSbees (Aug 7, 2007)

Make sure you do not sterilize your bees.


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## HVH (Feb 20, 2008)

DANIEL QUINCE said:


> I called a lab. While they do not have literature on the subject, one technician when trying to infect the bees with nosema accidentally put the spors in methanol instead of water and all the spores died. They also said that they had difficulties keeping the nosema spores alive for a long period of time, and they see them as easy to kill. They are 99% positive that the alcohol (methyl or ethylic) will kill them.
> Thank you
> Daniel


This is depressing news. I guess I will have to build that Still after all. 

Good job getting the answers from the lab.


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## DANIEL QUINCE (Jan 15, 2006)

Just don't drink the methyl HVH. Ethylic is vodka without the water, or vodka before they add water. You need a fractional distillery.


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## HVH (Feb 20, 2008)

DANIEL QUINCE said:


> Just don't drink the methyl HVH. Ethylic is vodka without the water, or vodka before they add water. You need a fractional distillery.


It's on my shopping list. I found one already assembled with a reflux extension that is fully adjustable for flow rate. It looks like I can bolt it onto one of my bottling tanks. Sounds like a great way to consume extra honey (cappings and such). If the mead is great it will go into a bottle, if not so great, into the still. In fact, I will clean every thing sticky with about 4 volumes of water and feed to the yeast. A serious batch of mead, of course, is a different story.


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## DANIEL QUINCE (Jan 15, 2006)

It takes time, but it is well spent. Have fun! It's hard for me to imagine that anybody will sell one that works well. Be cautious.


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## HVH (Feb 20, 2008)

DANIEL QUINCE said:


> It takes time, but it is well spent. Have fun! It's hard for me to imagine that anybody will sell one that works well. Be cautious.


I tried to find the link for the company that sells the stills (actually several companies do) but it is on my computer at work. I originally planned on building my own, but after locating the type of reflux still that I wanted to build; it made more sense to buy it. The still is around $500.00 with the extension, and has all of the features that I wanted. I may have been able to build one for half the price, but it would have been time consuming getting all the supplies together and then I would have needed more time for fabrication. It would have been fun, but my time right now is needed elsewhere. I have already fermented about 20 gallons of mead from scrap honey and am hoping that a decent Vodka will follow.
I guess to bring the post back on track - the vodka would be used strictly for cleaning hives infected with NC.


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## Troy (Feb 9, 2006)

OK, Let's assume we have built a dip tank and are going to have enough ethyl alcohol on hand to sterilize our equipment. How would we do it?

I assume a dip tank big enough to hold a whole brood chamber is too big..... So I would do it one frame at a time.

Once the comb is in the alcohol, I assume you'd have to agitate it to be sure that all of the inner surfaces of the cells were covered, right? If not, then many cells would have an air bubble in them and the top and half the back would not get touched by the alcohol.

Once we are done, I assume we'd want to recover as much of the alcohol as possible. Two good reasons I can think of to do that. 1. to reduce the fire hazard in the area of operations, and 2. COST. A frame could easily hold 10 oz. of alcohol in the cells and we wouldn't want that all to go to waste.

I had a passing thought that one could put them in the extractor and extract the alcohol, but that might not work either. 1. I don't believe the motor and switches on an extractor are explosion proof and with all that alcohol in the air, I'd be scared to push the switch. and 2. It would evaporate so quickly that you might not get much back. The alcohol would evaporate and the water would be left behind. The effective alcohol concentration in the extract might be too low to work.

I like the idea of a method for killing Nosema Cerana spores that a person can do in the field, but there are quite a few bugs to work out of this system. 

We need to know the minimum alcohol concentration and duration that kills the spores at 99%. We need to develop methods for getting the alcohol in and out of the cells so that much of it can be reused or else I think this method would be too expensive.

Maybe a spray would do it. We might be able to atomize the alcohol and spray the combs. But then again - maybe that is too much of a fire hazard.

Thoughts? Let's keep this thread running........


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## HVH (Feb 20, 2008)

I'm not suggesting that alcohol will be the most cost effective chemical, but you might be able to get your alcohol atomized by placing in a vacuum chamber large enough to hold a deep (maybe an old frig). Some vacuum pumps are made to be explosion proof (careful).


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## DANIEL QUINCE (Jan 15, 2006)

I do not intent to keep the honeycomb; that goes to candles. By "equipment" I meant all the wood. Scrape and deep. Why get a new colony to clean the sh.... of the old one, even if it's sterilized?


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## simplyhoney (Sep 14, 2004)

Daniel,
I can tell you for a fact that freezing DOES NOT kill nosema. We get winters with weeks apoun weeks of sub zero ferienhiet weather. (I mean 0 is the high for the day) Our equipment still has viable spores in the spring. The problem with fumigation or treating comb with anything is that there are many spores that get buried as bees build new comb or move wax. The spores are anerobic (sp?/dont need air) so they survive below the wax. Knowing this I spent all winter scraping wax off of plastic foundation then boiling the frames for about 30 sec. (longer will warp the plastic) Heat will kill the spores but I'm not sure if this short period will kill them all. However, when the frames are removed from the water the remaining wax is mostly liquified and you can knock it off by hitting the corner of the frame on a hard surface. This is a long, slow, and messy process but the frames are very clean when finished. I did over 4000 frames this way. I will be putting these frames into boxes and using them for a second hivebody on my nucs this spring. Stay tuned for results.


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## DANIEL QUINCE (Jan 15, 2006)

Thank you Symplyhoney. This info is changing my approach. Is there a certain temperature I should be shooting for that will guaranty the spore’s death? I am not using plastic.


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## simplyhoney (Sep 14, 2004)

I can't remember the exact temp. or where I read about it, but the article stated that the spores die with heat. However, if I understand you correctly, your frames are wax and/or wax wire in which case the boiling wouldn't work at all b/c it would melt everything off of the frame and you would have to redo your foundation. If your frames have a groove cut on the top bar and the bottom bar you may be able to knock out the infected comb and snap a piece of rite cell or similar plastic foundation into them. Good luck.


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