# foundationless nucs



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>When should I consider transferring them to a 10 frame medium?

If they are all drawn, I would move them to a bigger box.

> Should I wait until the first brood starts hatching?

They should have room to work so if they are drawn I'd give them work to draw more. I wouldn't wait for brood to emerge.

>Also when should I begin culling frames with cells larger than 4.9?

I wouldn't cull any until they have built up, I'd just keep moving the larger ones to the outside.

> I think I should wait until the first generation has hatched and begins to draw comb.

I'd wait until the hive is established before removing comb. Probably next year.

> I know it's 21 days to hatch, but how long before the new bees will be
drawing comb?

From 11 to 18 days old is when they normally are drawing wax although any age bee CAN draw wax, this is the normal age of wax makers and comb builders.

> If I understand correctly, I should add empty frames into the center of the hive and move larger cells to the outside and then up into another body.

Slowly, yes. Don't add more empty frames than they can fill the space with festooning bees to build the comb and keep the brood nest warm.

>Am I on the right track?

Yes, if you pace it well.


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## Kyle Meadows (Jul 14, 2006)

Thanks Michael for the reply.
>If they are all drawn, I would move them to a bigger box.

Some of the outer frames are about 1/3 to 1/2 drawn. Should I give them more time or go ahead and move them?

>I wouldn't cull any until they have built up, I'd just keep moving the larger ones to the outside.

I think I'm confused about this part. I thought culling WAS moving them to the outside. If I'm moving the larger ones to the outside, doesn't that require putting new empty frames into the center and removing some frames entirely? Is this what I should wait a year to do? Or am I just rearranging the existing frames without adding or subtracting any? Say, how about an animation on your website to illustrate this, like the cool little Epson animation that shows me how to replace an ink cartridge?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Some of the outer frames are about 1/3 to 1/2 drawn. Should I give them more time or go ahead and move them?

If you think 80% to 90% is drawn, I'd give them more room.

>I think I'm confused about this part. I thought culling WAS moving them to the outside.

That's the first step. To me culling is when you finally remove them from the hive. Moving them to the outside is just a way to get the brood to emerge and get them filled with honey eventually.

> If I'm moving the larger ones to the outside, doesn't that require putting new empty frames into the center and removing some frames entirely?

If the hive is growing then why can't you put those frames somewhere? There are no other boxes to put them in? If they have built up to the point that they have a full brood nest of combs and you have nowhere to juggle a full frame to in place of an empty comb, an empty frame or a frame of foundation, then you probably can remove some honey filled ones entirely.

>Is this what I should wait a year to do?

I wouldn't wait or not wait based on a arbitrary date. I would constantly work the large ones to the outside when you're working them and they are strong enough to handle an empty space.

> Or am I just rearranging the existing frames without adding or subtracting any?

In they end you're always just rearranging things. In order to put a frame anywhere a frame has to get removed from there. But it can be put where first one came from. That could be a box above, the same box, an external box that is just being used to store frames etc. You figure out where you have something and where you want it and swap things around. With a package I would not want to deprive them of any resources, since they are still building up. So I'd move things somewhere else. If you reach the point where the boxes they have are all in use then add a box and juggle things to there.

You have to play things by ear and not the calendar as every hive builds up differently and you need to not stress them out too much by leaving holes in the brood nest that they can't fill or removing resources they need to build up.


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## Kyle Meadows (Jul 14, 2006)

Thanks again, Michael.
I have moved one of the nucs (Italians) into a 10 frame medium box, probably just in time. Fourteen days after installation all 6 frames were fully drawn except for the 2 outermost ones which were about 90% drawn. They were ahead of the other Italian nuc and all 3 Russians. 
The tortoise and the hare?


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