# Does honey production get affected by a split



## Tibbigt

Does your honey production get affected when you split a hive? Need to split 3 of mine this yr and was wondering how bad it will affect my overal honey production for this yr

Thanks


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## tachilowitsch

maybe split them after the honey flow is over ?


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## AmericasBeekeeper

Absolutely! The first 12 to 15 thousand bees are relegated to house duties. Until the foraging age population grows there are not the resources to gather nectar, pollen and water. The first priority is pollen to feed and raise more bees to forage. There is actually a term for this conundrum in the colony but I do not recall what it is.


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## crofter

If the alternative to splitting results in a lost swarm it will likely cost more honey production loss than a partial split. The split does not have to be 50/50. For instance my son pulls off some 3 frame splits which get put into deeps with three divisions. Robbing can be a concern if splits are too weak. Sometimes several may need to be combined in the fall.

Lots of "it all depends"!


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## The Honey Householder

If the hive has to many bees you have to pull the extra out, or lose it all. As a comm. operator I have a set number of frames of bees I need in the hive building up to my main flow. If there is to many then I pull the extra frames, if it be 1-3 frames so be it. 

I start out in the spring with all 2# packages and within 5-7 weeks I are pulling frames. At that point I move a hive and replace it with a new box with 5 frames brood and a cages queen. All the frames don't have to come from the same hive. 

My 7 year avg 147 lbs. APH.


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## sakhoney

OK say a hive will make 100 pounds of honey. You split it and now the parent hive makes 75 pounds But the split also makes 75 pounds. Also you didn't loose the bee force due to swarming. You tell me - did it cost you honey production? or did you gain by making the split. May need to feed and pollen patty to get them both wound back up for the flow. 
my 2 cents


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## COAL REAPER

unless you have basswood, your flows are likely similar to mine, may and june. 50/50 split in april will yield zero surplus. but create a nuc with two frames of brood and a fresh queen in april and they will build up enough for winter. you did not hurt the donor hive much and may have benefitted by preventing swarming. splitting in july has proven difficult for me. robbing becomes an issue as you are disorganizing the hive when you split and it takes them some time to learn how to defend again.


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## GregB

I think the key is - asymmetric splitting and (re)combining. 
This is what I will try this year. 
Need both - growth and some honey.

Splitting a single into 50/50(ish) is waste of time and honey.
I would instead take two mother hives and make three out of them like 30/30/(70+70) - two splits and one combine. 
Does two weaker splits to grow from and a honey boomer to feed everyone.


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## Tibbigt

When I split I want them to make their own queen smart or not? And success rate? 

These bees I got now are amazing, they over wintered very well built up very quickly. I wanna try and keep these genetics going.

I bought a queen from California last yr and it’s the most aggressive hive I’ve ever seen the queen laid very well but the hive didn’t built up as good as I would have thought. My others hives that I wanna keep are very gentile and calm.


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## COAL REAPER

that's the tricky part. starts using resources to do it well and it delays your timing.


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## The Honey Householder

The quicker they are ready to split the better chance you have for them to make there own queens, and make production. Might want to start really growing them in mid March, so your ready for a mid April split.


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## ShrekVa

Tibbigt said:


> When I split I want them to make their own queen smart or not?


If you allow the smaller portion of the split to raise its own queen then I would say that it is not ideal. Small nucs do fine as mating nucs not so much for raising them.


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## fNWABEES

Link to www.mdasplitter.com, http://www.mdasplitter.com/docs/OTS 2016 meetings seasonal summary.pdf page 7 and 8 have great diagrams that will help you figure out how to make a split and run a honey hive. It's what I'm planning to do this year. I hope to take my 2 hives to 8 or 10, and still get some honey.


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## Michael Palmer

I guess it depends on how strong the parent colony is, when you split it, and how strong the flow is afterward. I see beekeepers advising to take the old queen away with the split, and then forcing the parent to raise a new queen via emergency response. Good way to lose the honey crop.

Having done thousands of spring splits in the north, here's what I do...with an eye to honey production. First, not every colony is strong enough to split, and a colony should be split if it is strong enough. To me, only colonies with 8 or more frames of brood are strong enough...this at the dandelion bloom. At that point, here in Vermont, I equalize brood so each colony has at least 6 frames of brood. Those that have less get emerging brood from those that have 8 or more. This boosts weaker colonies so they are strong enough to make a crop when the flow comes. It also weakens those strong colonies so they don't swarm on the dandelion flow...or right after that flow. 

For very strong colonies, 9 frames of brood or more, a split can be taken. Honey, sealed brood, sealed brood, open brood, pollen/nectar. Shake off bees, place bee-less split over excluder overnight. Following day take split away to new location and give a mated queen. The empty comb given to parent to replace those taken, gives the old queen comb space...which she needs. Helps prevent that colony from swarming. Split has new queen so they take off. Parent has old queen, so they take off. The colonies boosted with emerging brood take of as well, but you might want to requeen them on the flow, as they didn't winter as well as the rest.

For medium strength colonies, you can take resources from several to make one split. You van take brood and honey/pollen from two or three colonies, shake off the bees, and locate the split on another colony, above the excluder...so you take only bees from that colony. 

So, my advice would be to equalize where needed, and any extra resources after that can be used for splits. All this with an eye to honey production. If you just want more bees, and can accept a reduced crop, split as heavily as possible. I would still leave the queen in the parent, and buy mated queens for the splits.


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