# Russian Bees Population



## crofter (May 5, 2011)

How are your brood patterns? Is there being infill laying of different age / stage of brood. I am thinking the possibility that there may be a lot of hygenic cell clearing going on in the presence of varroa or EFB and preventing colony population growth.

I had a somewhat similar situation caused by varroa and thought it should not have been a problem in first year bees reputably mite resistant.


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## grantsbees (May 9, 2016)

That's an interesting thought, Frank. How did it turn out for you?

I need to do a full inspection soon for the brood pattern. I'm overdue. What really boggles my mind is how much foraging is going on and how it's almost all nectar and barely any pollen.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Those bees of mine are a mix of whatever Tibor Szabo raises. Quite hygenic. Once I got over denial and did closer checks I saw it was a mite issue. The first thing I got my hands on was Hopguard strips and in a couple of weeks that colony started gaining ground and much less cell uncapping. She turned out to be a good queen

If you see large solid areas of eggs that turn into scattered open brood then shotgun cappings with empty cells relaid you should be able to get a handle on which part of the equation is at fault. There is a general formula of one unit eggs to nearly two units of open brood, to three units of capped ;math based on time in each stage in build up mode if everything is normal.

You will know after you do an inspection whether they look short of stored pollen: If the queen is slow laying, the workers may be ahead on pollen and concentrating on nectar. I often find myself getting inspiration about a puzzle and having to go back later to check it out. Think better without a face full of bees I guess.


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## grantsbees (May 9, 2016)

Fascinating. And seeing as how this is the TF forum, what would be the "TF" response to this issue? Just let the bees deal with the mites and forget about honey this year?


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

> one unit eggs to nearly two units of open brood, to three units of capped


 egg 3 days, larva 6 days, pupa 12 days. The ratio is 1:2:4, not 1:2:3.

First find out what is causing the bees to fail to build up, then decide how to address it. Caution that in a heavy flow, bees will neglect the brood and focus on collecting nectar.


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## grantsbees (May 9, 2016)

Fusion_power said:


> Caution that in a heavy flow, bees will neglect the brood and focus on collecting nectar.


Is that right? Is that true more for Russians than Italians?


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

All bees I've ever kept would neglect brood in favor of foraging in a heavy flow. The only time they don't is when the foraging population is out of balance with the nurse bee population. If a hive is moved from its location so that the foragers are no longer in the hive, the remaining nurse bees will then tend brood until the foraging population builds up again in a week or two. This has consequences on the amount of honey collected so is not something a beekeeper would normally do. It is a useful method for queen breeders because they are not producing honey and they need the nurse bees to take care of queen cells.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

grantsbees said:


> Fascinating. And seeing as how this is the TF forum, what would be the "TF" response to this issue? Just let the bees deal with the mites and forget about honey this year?


I did not notice this was the TF forum. I doubt this particular hive would have been able to build to wintering strength without some intervention. It would not have been a question of honey or not. I can't give you much advice about what TF options might have been. Sometimes the bees figure it out but some times they don't.

FP: thanks for correcting that corresponding capped brood ratio number:thumbsup:.


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## DerTiefster (Oct 27, 2016)

OK. TF or not, sugar dusting is _supposed_ by many to remove _some_ mites. If you sugar dust the hive, you should see some sign of mite excess if mite overload is your problem. You might consider moving the queen with a smaller population to another box (brood break) with drawn comb and recently sugar-scrubbed bees, and examine the buildup there. The bees won't be squeaky-clean, but if your problem was mites, the issue should be reduced and the brood pattern should change for the better. Or so it seems to me. But it's a significant step and might not be the first one you should take.

And F-P's post make me go look things up. I haven't committed beemath to memory yet, and was thinking about the queen schedule for pupal development rather than the longer worker schedule. Silly me.


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## lharder (Mar 21, 2015)

Generally speaking, I would say that introduced genetics don't seem to do as well as local bees. In 4 short years, I have seen hives from queens I've raised much more productive than the original bees I brought in. The process of going forward with strong hives and raising queens from them has resulted in some feistier, more motivated bees.

I've had a heavy nectar flow this year. Its put a damper on the buildup of some nuc colonies.


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## grantsbees (May 9, 2016)

So we have two beeks in this thread who have witnessed slow build up with a heavy flow. That may very well be contributing to what I am seeing. Our flow is extremely heavy this year.

That being said, to give crofter some credit here, I did witness a worker dragging a big white larva (not pupa) out of the hive. So there may be some hygienic behavior going on as well.

One other thing to mention is I have some old drawn comb from last year in the hive. The girls seem to be filling them with nectar but those are not near the brood nest


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## Juhani Lunden (Oct 3, 2013)

I have had primorski originating hives, which were perfectly happy having the same 2 shallows in mid summer July as in winter. They had a perfect queen and brood area. The flow was normal.

Why make honey for the greedy beekeeper?


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## grantsbees (May 9, 2016)

Juhani Lunden said:


> Why make honey for the greedy beekeeper?


Why indeed.


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## grantsbees (May 9, 2016)

UPDATE: As of this past week the Russian bees in both hives have exploded in population. The queens are laying brood from wall to wall. On top of that there is very low mite presence. This happened very quickly and lines up with a lot of accounts of Russian hives with a late summer buildup. 

I'm very pleased with what I've been seeing!


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

very interesting grant, thanks for keeping us updated.


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## drummerboy (Dec 11, 2015)

grantsbees said:


> UPDATE: As of this past week the Russian bees in both hives have exploded in population. The queens are laying brood from wall to wall. On top of that there is very low mite presence. This happened very quickly and lines up with a lot of accounts of Russian hives with a late summer buildup.
> 
> I'm very pleased with what I've been seeing!


Awesome News!!

Russians have been known to trick beeks into performing all kinds of unnecessary procedures when all they ever needed was time...


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## grantsbees (May 9, 2016)

Yes! And time is all I gave them. (Oh.. and a quilt box ☺)


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## grantsbees (May 9, 2016)

UPDATE: Checked the hive yesterday. House bee population has roughly doubled since last post. One hive is growing a bit faster than the other but only slightly. Girls are drawing lots of new comb. Late summer has been very good to them. Here's hoping for a good fall too!


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