# mite numbers



## NSBee (Dec 20, 2014)

I would like to know this as well . i found 4 mites over the weekend . and am not sure what to do .
i am ordering OA but it will take a week or more to get here .


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

If you're seeing 4-6 in a sugar roll you can probably pretty safely double that number for actual infestation. How did you do your sugar roll? They are super easy to get great results from when you do them wrong.


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## Eikel (Mar 12, 2014)

A few of us had concerns with the effectiveness of our sugar roll technique so we tested it. Did a sugar roll and counted the mite; did an alcohol wash with the same bees and counted how many mites we missed in the sugar roll. To complete the test, we counted the dead bees to verify our 1/2 = 300 bees assumption. While I can't comment on your technique, over 3 tests the alcohol wash only netted 1-2 mites per test and the 300 per half cup was within +/- 5 bees either way.

I've gone chemical free for the last three years, unfortunately this fall I've had higher mite counts and one hive contracted Parasitic Mite Syndrome (I attribute the wet spring/early summer and degradation of the main as a major stresser for the bees). Chemical free is my long term goal but not at the short term expense of losing most of the hives. In the past, I'd go into winter with a mite count of 6-8 in the middle of Sept without a problem. This year I have counts in the 10 to 12 range and have decided 11 is my magic number. No hard rationale for that number except I had to draw the line somewhere and I already had one hive in trouble. The home apiary is getting a series of OAV treatments and then the vaporizer will go on the shelf until conditions warrant its use.


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## libhart (Apr 22, 2010)

Eikel,

Are you saying that your alcohol wash had an additional 1-2 mites drop above the sugar roll?

Also, in reading about sugar roll techniques I've noticed that waiting a good 3-4 minutes before shaking is recommended after the bees are in the jar and covered in the sugar. This can feel like a long time if you don't have a timer. In your tests, did you have this wait-time or did you essentially shake as soon as the bees were covered?

Thanks.


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## wild-b (Apr 23, 2014)

I took a frame of bees and shook them into an aluminum flat that I have and then funnel them into a 1/2 cup measuring cup and then into a jar with a screened top. Dumped in 2 tablespoons of powdered sugar and then shook and rolled for about 2 minutes and then shook all the powdered sugar into another jar and added water. After disolved I counted the mites. I checked 4 colonies that all seem to be strong and got 4 6 4 8. I have already treated these colonies with OAV about 2 weeks ago. Not really liking the OAV and think I'm going with Formic acid.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

I think if your colonies are showing that high a mite count and signs of virus damage, your colony is toast. Randy Oliver says the level of concern is 2% and I have decided personally to believe every thing he says. My bees do so much better and make more honey.


Eikel said:


> A few of us had concerns with the effectiveness of our sugar roll technique so we tested it. Did a sugar roll and counted the mite; did an alcohol wash with the same bees and counted how many mites we missed in the sugar roll. To complete the test, we counted the dead bees to verify our 1/2 = 300 bees assumption. While I can't comment on your technique, over 3 tests the alcohol wash only netted 1-2 mites per test and the 300 per half cup was within +/- 5 bees either way.
> 
> I've gone chemical free for the last three years, unfortunately this fall I've had higher mite counts and one hive contracted Parasitic Mite Syndrome (I attribute the wet spring/early summer and degradation of the main as a major stresser for the bees). Chemical free is my long term goal but not at the short term expense of losing most of the hives. In the past, I'd go into winter with a mite count of 6-8 in the middle of Sept without a problem. This year I have counts in the 10 to 12 range and have decided 11 is my magic number. No hard rationale for that number except I had to draw the line somewhere and I already had one hive in trouble. The home apiary is getting a series of OAV treatments and then the vaporizer will go on the shelf until conditions warrant its use.


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

Just do an alcohol wash. It is more accurate. Here are instructions and thresholds for this area:

http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/food/inspection/bees/varroa-sampling.htm


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

Check out Randy Oliver's website, www.scientificbeekeeping.com . He has a nice modification of the alcohol wash in the Varroa Management section. Third title down, "An Improved, but Not Yet Perfect Mite Wash". Click on "Read More".

The crux of the info is that vigorous shaking is not necessarily - varroa mites immediately let go of their grip when submerged in alcohol. They get stuck in the bodies of the dead bees as they wash down, so the bees need to be loosely packed and the mites need to be freely "swimming" in the alcohol and are able to drain through the strainer into the counting jar. He notes that the alcohol jar is 87% effective in mite recovery.

Lots of excellent photos showing how to make the Oliver Varroa Mite Alcohol Washer and how to use it. *Definitely read this article!*


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

wild-b, if that's how you did the sugar shake... double your numbers at least. Read up on how to properly do one. It involves a lot of time. And the only benefit is that the bees aren't dead when you dump them out. How much longer do they live after being properly sugar rolled? Probably not long. Dump sugar in, roll/shake for a few minutes. Sit in jar in sugar for 3-4 minutes then shake vigorously again for a couple minutes to get mites out.

You'd be time ahead just treating unless you're really interested in the numbers behind it. Just do an alcohol wash and it will be much faster and more accurate.


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## wild-b (Apr 23, 2014)

Not sure what to treat with in the fall


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## Eikel (Mar 12, 2014)

Libhart,
Yes, the alcohol wash can net an additional 1-2 mites, sometimes the mites get trapped in the mass of bees or stuck to the sides of the jar and don't fall out. The alcohol wash does permit the mites to "wash" out easier. The point is you can better determine your degree/percentage of error on the sugar shake and accurately calculate the actual infestation number. I didn't intentionally allow any wait time but wasn't rushing to dump the sugar in the jar either. I'll have to check the impact of adding a wait time the next time we run a mite checking demonstration.

I'm far from having the answers to all the chemical and treatment free issues but I'm trying to push the envelope and listen to those who have some successes when they share their data/findings/observations. Also, I've learned far more from the "problem children."


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

I think there was a post yesterday from a forum member who recalled doing an alcohol wash and then finding the queen among the corpses. Remarkably, he managed to revive her.

I have never tried an ether roll, but supposedly you may be able to revive bees after that method. Not sure how long it is before they can fly straight.

The alcohol wash is the research standard, and being able to count corpses afterwards is one good argument for it, but it is fatal to the countees. If this makes you hesitate from doing it, a sugar roll is an option. You can do as many sugar rolls as you like, without any crisis of conscience. Either one beats the bejeebers out of a natural drop.


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## wild-b (Apr 23, 2014)

I was reading an artical of Randy Olivers and he did a study with Mite away strips and looked to me that he had really good numbers with just 1 strip verses 2. Of course 2 had better numbers but not much more that would justify the use of two. ANy one have anything on that, it would make the cost considerably less. 1/2


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

For the method of getting the proper number of bees for a sugar roll, I've given up on measuring cups. This business of shaking into a box and then dumping into a measuring cup and then dumping into a jar just fills the air with too many PO'd bees and the jar with too few. What you need is a 3/4" layer of PO'd bees in the bottom of a standard mason jar. So I painted a stripe at that height on my sugar shake jar. The best solution would probably be a huge funnel to shake bees straight into the jar, but a funnel made from a gallon plastic bottle works for now.


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## wild-b (Apr 23, 2014)

Phoebee said:


> For the method of getting the proper number of bees for a sugar roll, I've given up on measuring cups. This business of shaking into a box and then dumping into a measuring cup and then dumping into a jar just fills the air with too many PO'd bees and the jar with too few. What you need is a 3/4" layer of PO'd bees in the bottom of a standard mason jar. So I painted a stripe at that height on my sugar shake jar. The best solution would probably be a huge funnel to shake bees straight into the jar, but a funnel made from a gallon plastic bottle works for now.


Man I hear ya, by the time I got 2 boxes broke open and enough bees to do a mite count the sky was black with bees. This time of year is tough enough trying to get feeders on and make sure you even have a queen. I'm not even looking for a queen anymore the first sign of capped brood is good enough.


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## larryh (Jul 28, 2014)

on sugar vs alcohol- I just don't have the cajones to do alcohol. I freak out that I'm going to kill the queen when doing sugar shakes!


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

The one-strip dosing of MAQS, is one strip at a time, with the second strip applied several weeks, or a month later. So the savings is negated by the need to treat twice. I've used both dosing regimens, with pretty much equal results: fair to middling mite kill. OTOH, no queen or brood loss either.

Why do you think your series (three or four?) of OAV didn't do the trick?

Enj.


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## AG Fresh (Jun 10, 2015)

wild-b said:


> I was reading an artical of Randy Olivers and he did a study with Mite away strips and looked to me that he had really good numbers with just 1 strip verses 2. Of course 2 had better numbers but not much more that would justify the use of two. ANy one have anything on that, it would make the cost considerably less. 1/2


Isn't this like having strep throat and not taking all of the anti-biopics... You're just creating more resistant germs by not doing the full dose.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

AG Fresh, totally different killing mechanism.


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## wild-b (Apr 23, 2014)

I haven't used it yet and was just courious if one dose would be enough to get me through the Winter. Didn't want to run the risk of harming the queens. I did one treatment of OAV 2 weeks ago and I don't really like the stuff. I think the girls are still po'd at me.


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## wild-b (Apr 23, 2014)

JW did you get PM


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## McCoslin (Dec 4, 2013)

wild-b said:


> I haven't used it yet and was just courious if one dose would be enough to get me through the Winter. Didn't want to run the risk of harming the queens. I did one treatment of OAV 2 weeks ago and I don't really like the stuff. I think the girls are still po'd at me.


Just finish my 3rd cycle of treating w/ OAV. I treat 3 times 5-7 days apart as worker bee cycle is 21 days. Bees are PO'd for about an hour. No harm to queens or brood. I did the same treatment this spring and hives that were not impressive literally exploded. I have had great results with OAV on hives and nucs. I curious that your bees are still upset. I treated early in the morning and was walking around in shorts and a tank top around them a couple of hours later with no issues.


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## wild-b (Apr 23, 2014)

I have 5 colonies in this apiary and this fall they are all just mean. I almost dread working them, got stung 4 times yesterday in just 3 of them and seem to have set off a frenzy. Queens are getting pinched in the spring. Sure it has nothing to do with the OAV.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

wild-b said:


> I have 5 colonies in this apiary and this fall they are all just mean. I almost dread working them, got stung 4 times yesterday in just 3 of them and seem to have set off a frenzy. Queens are getting pinched in the spring. Sure it has nothing to do with the OAV.


I wouldn't be too quick to off those queens because of the aggressiveness now. Most bees are pissy in the fall.
They could be your best producers and puppies in the Spring.


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

1 strip will knock back mite levels, but with the fall mite/bee growth curve you will be back to where you were in couple of weeks. A 2nd strip at this time will knock them back again. 2 strips, while hard on brood, kills a lot higher percentage of mites and will hold them longer. Basically two 1 strip treatments, doesn't equal a single 2 strip treatment.


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## wild-b (Apr 23, 2014)

How would you treat 4 frame nucs


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

I used OA dribble last year. This year I think I am going to use OAV. Lots of people don't treat them at all.


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