# Mike Palmer Nuc setup.



## xcugat (Mar 4, 2008)

Hello,

After a hiatus, it seems that I will be able to keep bees rather than give them all away. If any of you recall I posted a message some months ago about developing a bee allergy and so now I have started desensitization therapy and now have to wear a bee suit (which I never did before what a pain!) But anyway I am planning for the future so....

I see that better-bee is selling Mike Palmer's nuc setup now for overwintering nucs. For those not familiar here is a link

http://www.betterbee.com/Products/Nuc-Boxes-and-Components/Double-Nuc-with-Supers

I like having the second box on top for the bees to have extra stores, as In my experience they do not move sideways to get all of the honey in the first box especially if the cluster is small. 

I want to know other than for when the nucs are spread around in the spring maybe for sale or to another yard, what is the advantage of two small nuc boxes on top, why not just two divided deeps--it would save on production costs and there would be less loose equipment to take care of? (Especially from Mike if you are on beesource and you see this)


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Well, a few reasons for the super. 

You can better judge stores without handling frames, since you can heft the top story on each nuc. 
By tipping the super you can check for strength, queen cells, etc, without removing frames.
Using a divided box on top is asking for trouble...queens crossing under the divider when you have the top box off the bottom box.


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## winevines (Apr 7, 2007)

xcugat said:


> Hello,
> 
> I want to know other than for when the nucs are spread around in the spring maybe for sale or to another yard, what is the advantage of two small nuc boxes on top, why not just two divided deeps--it would save on production costs and there would be less loose equipment to take care of? (Especially from Mike if you are on beesource and you see this)


he also explains it nicely here. Note time of year- this is early Sept.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0aHrVJDRfk


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

I like MP's nuc setup, makes alot of sense doing it that way, I'm going with his method from now on when I build my nucs.


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## xcugat (Mar 4, 2008)

Thanks for the reply Mike and all. One more question on these--Mike is the major benefit on this setup some heat sharing?---I know that bees generally only heat their cluster area rather than the whole hive, but it seems that if the two clusters are towards the center near the divider there should be some heat transfer? I had thought about cutting a hole in the center divider and covering it on both sides with screen to promote some heat transfer?

Otherwise, Why not just make two story individual 4 frame nucs
Thanks


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

Here is another advantage to Michael's design. It requires a 10 frame deep box and two (or more)5 frame deeps. now I am going with Mann lake prices. I can get the 5 frame boxes for $9.50 each and the deep for 10 frame for $11.95. Total for a double deep $30.95. Buy three sets and shipping is free. I make my own bottoms and coves. sorry they are just to simple and cheap to make.

The same in just 5 frame boxes would be $38. I can reduce that cost a bit by making my own as well. But the savings is still comparable. Not only that but he two compartments will winter over at the divider acting more like a single larger cluster. Like a large potato has less skin than two smaller ones. the larger box has less outside space exposed to the cold. You create an entire wall of the compartment as a warm surface to cluster against. In all I believe you create a better advantage than even a single large colony has.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

Daniel Y said:


> Here is another advantage to Michael's design. It requires a 10 frame deep box and two (or more)5 frame deeps.


The "supers" are 4-frame boxes...


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

xcugat said:


> Thanks for the reply Mike and all. One more question on these--Mike is the major benefit on this setup some heat sharing?---I know that bees generally only heat their cluster area rather than the whole hive, but it seems that if the two clusters are towards the center near the divider there should be some heat transfer? I had thought about cutting a hole in the center divider and covering it on both sides with screen to promote some heat transfer?
> 
> Otherwise, Why not just make two story individual 4 frame nucs
> Thanks


Some heat sharing, I guess. Conservation of equipment for sure. A perfect vertical cavity for growing and wintering nuclei. 

You certainly don't need to cut a hole in the divider to increase heat transfer. 

As far as individual two story nucs goes...think tippy!


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## WilliamsHoneyBees (Feb 17, 2010)

xcugat said:


> I like having the second box on top for the bees to have extra stores, as In my experience they do not move sideways to get all of the honey in the first box especially if the cluster is small.
> 
> I want to know other than for when the nucs are spread around in the spring maybe for sale or to another yard, what is the advantage of two small nuc boxes on top, why not just two divided deeps--it would save on production costs and there would be less loose equipment to take care of? (Especially from Mike if you are on beesource and you see this)


As Michael Palmer says, it's not the box that's important it's what's in the box. So use what equipment suits your particular situation. 

Here are pictures from two of my nuc yards with the way I overwinter my nucs using double stacked 5 frame deep and medium nuc boxes. One picture includes my wonderful helpers.  The wintering yards get around 20-24 double stacked nucs. 

Each spring I take a 5 frame nuc off each double stacked nuc to sell or to use myself. I'm left with enough bees and brood to make two mating nucs (sometimes only one mating nuc, just depends on the strength of the double stacked nuc) with the addition of a bottom board and lid. I pull a few rounds of queens and around August 1st I allow them to start to build back up. All the nucs are scattered to out yards where there is normally good fall forage and I feed feed feed if necessary. I do the same thing with double stacked medium nucs and started doing 1/2 frame mediums this year as well. 

I like having individual boxes because my operation requires a lot of mating nucs to be set up each spring, but if you were solely using the nucs for your own purpose perhaps a different set up would suit you better. Try a few different ones out and see what you like. 

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x58/danwill73/2013-10-04183813.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x58/danwill73/2013-12-19162633.jpg


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## man_o_war (May 8, 2014)

i think one of the best ways to use these setups, as Mike says and does, as brood factories for cell builders and brood and bees for nuclei (or just brood for what ever). the double sided nuc is nice because it keeps the bees in a smaller cluster pattern (esp usefull to you northern state folk for wintering) and adding supers give both queens more laying room. so you go and harvest brood, one or so frames from each nuc add to cell builder and graft lovely queens. at the end of the season you can close up your little nucs and winter them both together and they will both creat one cluster between the divider so they retain a bit more heat and have seprate stores. so its all a good idea as far as im concerned the more bees the better esp the ones who winter with success. but what ive been starting to take an intrest in is his 4sided mating nucs. i saw a photo pretty sure it was a divider board from a 4way nuc cut so you could fit two of the small mating nuc frames together to make a single full size frame which i thought was usefull being able to move brood and bees to take care of your queens direct like that ingenious. however i am an inexperienced beekeeper this will be my first year (nearly my first post) with no previous experience and live in the harsh 9a zone in arizona so i cant say what your or anyones prefrences are. but use what you have is what i hear and all you have because more bees the better. just a quik question i seemed to notice in the pics from pine_ridge_farms your nucs are all pushed up together so do you know if the bees all cluster in the center of their nucs or side to side?


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