# Natural Farming practices insure Bees survival and possibly ours.



## aunt betty

Healthy profits are unhealthy to plants, bees, body, spirit, mind, and the planet yet our govt. insists there must be healthy profits. (to tax)
Thus the many conflicts between our (natural) world and theirs.


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## Arnie

opcorn:


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## AmericasBeekeeper

Welcome!


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## thinkpink

According to the professors that teach Natural Farming at the University of Hawaii; Natural Farming practices are less expensive than conventional
farming when you add up the costs of commercial fertilizer, insecticides, herbicides and all other inputs... Reducing inputs generally reduces yields, at least temporarily. For example: reducing your inputs say by 40% reduces yield by 20 to 30% gives you a 10% profit on the end. And after the first year as your soil's
health recovers your yield steadily increases. My potatoes planted conventionally(10 to 12 inches apart in rows 3 feet apart) yield at a minimum, 25.75 pounds per 1 pound planted(2oz.seed pieces).
Documented for 2 years on my YouTube channel, from lawn clippings only. No other inputs except water and sunshine. And I have noticed a negative affect on yield when the seed pieces were planted in anger. Go figure... thinkpink


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## BeeBop

thinkpink said:


> And I have noticed a negative affect on yield when the seed pieces were planted in anger. Go figure... thinkpink


Now this is interesting. I was mad as hell this year when I planted tomatoes and we had our best crop ever. Perhaps tomatoes respond differently to mood than potatoes do? Maybe more research is in order. I wonder if I could get a government grant?


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## Joel

The issue is not if natural farming is possible, the issue relates to how many people can you feed with your potatoes grown naturally. Their are literally millions of people in the world starving to death. Modern farming to feed mass urban populations who produce no food requires mega farms. Any time you plant or place a species in overpopulation in a confined area, animal or vegetable, it will succumb to the millennial old natural cures for such affliction, namely pestilence, disease or starvation. This makes "natural" and farming oxymoron's in this mordern world we have created. Until we return to a predominately agrarian society or stop investing in I phone technology and into farm technology the chemicals and methods we love to hate will continue to feed us. I get to interact with a lot of smart people developing urban gardening, organic gardening and hydroponics. Our bees are working hard at Growing Chefs Rooftop Garden in Brooklyn. Until I stood there and looked at all the mind boggling logistics of soil weight, hauling compost, water etc. I had no idea. It is a long, long haul from here to there without a great deal of necessary financial backing.


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## thinkpink

If we as consumers continue to buy our foods from others we will gravitate towards cheaper and less nutritious foods...(even if we are not aware of it). And true we as well as our environment will continue to be exposed to a multitude of chemicals that we know very little about and or their health a
My suggestion is to self-educate and be aware of the nutritional aspects of what we are eating and or what we could be eating. And Grow Your Own Foods. For example: Please look up Lambs quarters and you may be surprised at the nutrition in a plant that is very common to most of our gardens and is routinely pulled out between our vegetable crops and either thrown away and or composted as a common WEED. The first crop of the year is the weeds that I pull. Blanched and frozen I have greens for the winter. If a city dweller you can grow food on your balcony in containers... Even sprouts from seeds will double the food value of the grains you choose and cut your food bill. If you have a lawn you could till up part of it and grow food instead. Check out Ron Finley on YouTube, gorilla gardener South central LA. Sorry... long-winded... must sleep now... thinkpink


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## thinkpink

My daughter was trying to finish planting potatoes and instead of planting 10 to 12 inches apart she had crowded the seed pieces within 2 inches of each other. I asked her to replant them correctly before she could go and visit a friend... She was mad at the potatoes. I'd be willing to guess that as you were planting your tomatoes your anger was not directed at the tomatoes... thinkpink


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## Duncan151

Joel said:


> The issue is not if natural farming is possible, the issue relates to how many people can you feed with your potatoes grown naturally. Their are literally millions of people in the world starving to death. Modern farming to feed mass urban populations who produce no food requires mega farms. Any time you plant or place a species in overpopulation in a confined area, animal or vegetable, it will succumb to the millennial old natural cures for such affliction, namely pestilence, disease or starvation. This makes "natural" and farming oxymoron's in this mordern world we have created. Until we return to a predominately agrarian society or stop investing in I phone technology and into farm technology the chemicals and methods we love to hate will continue to feed us. I get to interact with a lot of smart people developing urban gardening, organic gardening and hydroponics. Our bees are working hard at Growing Chefs Rooftop Garden in Brooklyn. Until I stood there and looked at all the mind boggling logistics of soil weight, hauling compost, water etc. I had no idea. It is a long, long haul from here to there without a great deal of necessary financial backing.


I suggest that you take a look at what Joel Salatin is doing, might just give you some different ideas, or Gabe Brown for that matter.

http://www.polyfacefarms.com/

https://www.facebook.com/Browns-Ranch-106328396064498/timeline/


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## thinkpink

If all of us knew everything... then our bees would not be dying... we would have taken steps to resolve those issues.
Concerning the Human Deaths by starvation as reported by Worldometers.info at around 25,000 per day(most of which are children); I would say this:
If all the 10,000 plus members of this forum combined all their resources(bank accounts, savings, money in their pockets and the shirts off their backs)
we could fly food into one country and possibly save 1000 men, women and children... Temporarily I might add... What we would have accomplished is to create a small town of DEPENDENTS... The permanent solution is to help and teach them to GROW THEIR OWN FOODS. Teach a man to fish... so to speak.
My response is directed to our collective consciousness in the hope that together we can all discuss and formulate constructive sustainable solutions. Using available local resources such as rain traps, lawn clippings, compost and redirecting(and utilizing) waste streams are just a few permanent suggestions... Let's not make this discussion about individuals and what they know or don't know... Instead let's collaborate our efforts both in discussions and ACTIONS towards permanent solutions. thinkpink


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## crofter

Many such lofty ideas are best entertained on full stomachs. The thin veneer of civilization disappears quickly when it is rubbed by harsh reality. Wouldnt it be nice if man was of an inherently co-operative nature rather than tribalistic and competitive. Thinking in pink has a big job ahead of it, methinks!


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## thinkpink

All the more reason to teach people to GROW THEIR OWN FOODS. Rather than create dependents.
They will have no need to wait for handouts or to raid their neighbors... How's that? A journey of 1000 miles starts with a single step.
I started sharing observations about growing foods more than 3 years ago... You can start your self-awareness by looking up NASA/Earth's
statement on "the largest irrigated crop in America". Then get on board with your own ACTION. For those who wish to communicate further to the Sustainable Solutions, you can find me... I'm not hiding. And for those of you that wish to only continue to stroke your own Egos; TAKE ACTION... At least solve your own food security issues... Or you are just part of the PROBLEM. In the old days thinking pink meant to seek perfection. Sorry to say I didn't find it here... thinkpink


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## JWChesnut

thinkpink said:


> reason to teach people to GROW THEIR OWN FOODS.


Huh, the Jeffersonian ideal of the small holder, tending his crops at the edge of the wilderness.

Modern society, for better or worse, has specialized labor. It has rationalized farming to consume a ever-smaller share of the workforce. The freed labor has invented transistors, computers, fiber optic cable and the internet. These products consume an ever-larger share of the workforce -- and this decision is the free will of billions of consumers. An return to the pre-industrial division of labor implies a return the pre-industrial level of technology. 

You can't have a free lunch of organic veggies or of free internet simultaneously. Every decision has its costs, and a unicorns and rainbows vision of medically-unaflicted peasants tilling their small plots while simultaneously posting pictures of their aphid-free broccoli with their hand-held phones is just another utopian pipe dream.


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## BeeBop

...teach people to GROW THEIR OWN FOODS 


The majority of young people I know these days wouldn't even cook their own food if the fresh ingredients were on the counter, let alone try to grow it. Unless there's a phone app where they can just type in "cheeseburger" and it magically appears they simply aren't interested.

I've got a small garden plot that supplies about... 1% of our food. It's a LOT of work and folks that have a real 40+ hour a week job aren't likely to have the time or energy to grow enough for even 10% of their families needs even if they had the space for it.
It's a cute idea but not very realistic in the real world.


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## Rader Sidetrack

Welcome to Beesource, _thinkpink_!
Are you planning on becoming a beekeeper?

[hr] [/hr]

JWC has posted above a {_harsh_} analysis above that is hard to deny, as far as it goes. Certainly it is not possible for the _average _USA resident to grow/raise the bulk of their own food, no matter how good their intentions may be.

However, _every _backyard beekeeper has the opportunity to grow all of at least one of their own food items - *honey*. :shhhh:


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## clyderoad

thinkpink said:


> I started sharing observations about growing foods more than 3 years ago...


You'd learn more in 1 week traveling with me to the small farms near my apiaries than you have in those 3 years
of sharing your observations about growing food.
A good dose of reality, complete with financials, production records and work loads of these 'new farmers' that think they are 'revolutionizing' food production will have you whistling a different tune.


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## aunt betty

The point of this thread is to point out a few things like how "natural Farming" is an oxymoron for one.
(someone pointed that out, thank you)

What's natural about tilling the earth and planting seeds of our choice and allowing a monoculture in a field, no matter how big or small? (It is not natural) Nature doesn't know what a furrow is.

I'm of the Jeffersonian, Libertarian type of view and what is wrong with going back to the way things were done before with such great success? 

Well...

The bankers, insurance salesmen, and the lawyers, CEO's with private jets all depend on this new industrialized system to generate the enormous wealth they have to control...CONTROL being the key word.

Imagine a future where you have to provide for yourself. (HAVE TO PROVIDE FOR YOURSELF, say that 6 times)
Can you do it? 

Imagine being happy, self-sustaining, proud of what you did but there's one little problem. Those people who don't produce anything...the lawyers, bankers, industrialists, CEO's, Insurance ppl...who will care for them when they are no longer required? That's blasphemy to them. 

We're being controlled in such a way as to enrich "some"...that's un-American imo. It's the devil.

Here's an example of how the devil works.
Here in Champaign there's a charity who wanted to pass out hot sandwiches at the bus station. Seems harmless but when they started doing it the main street restaurants all raised **** and called the food inspector to shut the van down over health violations which really weren't a problem. The perceived unfair competition was the big deal. Had nothing to do with food safety. The van upgraded and they found another reason to not allow them to give away free food. This went on three times. The van would do whatever the rules said, re-appear, then the rules would get changed. That's just how it works in this nation.


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## Orion7

Here is a link to a group that is doing just what you are talking about. My wife and I took a tour of their place in Fort Myers FL last year.

http://echonet.org/global-farm-tours/


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## thinkpink

I never wanted this to be about me... Our World problems are more important to solve than whether or not I whistle a different tune.
This isn't about money; it's about sharing, learning and doing. Harsh statements don't change the Truths. Our food system that most people rely on doesn't
supply the needed nutrition for our bodies to remain healthy and to heal ourselves. The effects that all the chemicals that are being used have on us and your(our) bees is no doubt one of the most important topics that the majority of this forums membership are concerned about. Let's go back to sharing information and creating sustainable solutions Please... For those of you who still feel the need to attack the idea of teaching people to grow their own foods, check out my YouTube channel, and others that are seriously promoting inexpensive, sustainable methods which also include bees. FYI... As far as my farming experience, I started farming for B.L.(Pat) Davis the summer of 1964 in Adams, Oregon pitching windrows back for the pea combines... So they wouldn't have to back up to make the corners. I have missed two seasons because of military service only... I'm 63 now; You do the math... thinkpink


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## crofter

Aunt Betty, that is just man demonstrating his loyalty to his clique, not the common good.

Wouldnt it be nice if..... he was altruistic by nature and would only take what he needs and no more: Oh that he be born with the bees instincts for serving only the common good! Alas I think I have lapsed into a fantasy land. I had a friend who used to get some very mellow ideas when he was rolling his own cigarettes!

Maybe I have a jaundiced eye, but then I remember checking my rabbit snares on the way home from school and cutting wood with a buck saw.

Cuba went through an interesting reversion to subsistance farming when the USSR economy collapsed. The average adult lost 18 pounds of body weight the first year. It may eventually be the way we have to go too, but the civil strife will be very painful; there are a lot of powerful fat cats who will insist that the skinny ones to do the belt tightening. I doubt many people will be counting their blessings.


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## thinkpink

I feel Aunt Betty has plowed some common ground for all of us. At least she has guts enough to speak her mind. I know several of the readers of this thread besides being somewhat entertained are holding back without joining in the discussions... Please speak up; you may have a fresh insight that could lead to a unique solution. At this late stage of the game, we need all the help we can get. 
Natural farming includes things such as no-till planting... Adding compost instead of chemical fertilizers... Planting perennial food forests, Permaculture. thinkpink


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## Arnie

I'm not a philosophy person, I like to know the "how" of it.

So tell me,,,, How would we get from here to there? How do we maintain our prosperity and technology while we are busy growing our own food and producing our own stuff?

What would your new economic system look like?

Where would there be a population center to produce the stuff we use? How do we feed them?

What would a typical day be like for a person in your new system? Would I get up and drive to work or would I get up and tend my personal farm?

If there were no more chemicals, what if I got sick and needed medicine? 

Will fossil fuels still be used? If not, what source of energy would replace them for our home heat, vehicles, electricity, etc?

(I have a business, so I love profit. I also am thankful the banking industry exists. We were able to get a loan to buy the building and it's now paid off. If we didn't have profits we would not be able to have a little savings to weather the economic down times and our employees would be out of work. Profit is a GOOD thing.)

Anyway, thanks in advance for your answers.


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## beeware10

we have an organic corn field 1/2 mile from my house. you can stand in the middle of the field and look any direction. the yield will be about 1/5 of other local fields. If the us followed this method we would have to import most of our food rather than export as we do now. I would love to eat food made in china. they can't even make dog food that's safe. It's a noble goal but not practical for large scale farming.


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## aunt betty

I'll add that when ever we process a food item it becomes less nutricious. Most everything we buy to eat has been processed so I ask..why not grow our own? The tomato sauce I produce has far better quality than anything I can buy at the store. Can tell by how I feel after I eat some. 
We've all been conned into thinking food in a plastic wrapper is somehow safer....better.

I hope my posts don't seem like attacks, they're not meant to be.


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## aunt betty

Arnie said:


> I'm not a philosophy person, I like to know the "how" of it.
> 
> So tell me,,,, How would we get from here to there? How do we maintain our prosperity and technology while we are busy growing our own food and producing our own stuff?
> 
> What would your new economic system look like?
> 
> Where would there be a population center to produce the stuff we use? How do we feed them?
> 
> What would a typical day be like for a person in your new system? Would I get up and drive to work or would I get up and tend my personal farm?
> 
> If there were no more chemicals, what if I got sick and needed medicine?
> 
> Will fossil fuels still be used? If not, what source of energy would replace them for our home heat, vehicles, electricity, etc?
> 
> (I have a business, so I love profit. I also am thankful the banking industry exists. We were able to get a loan to buy the building and it's now paid off. If we didn't have profits we would not be able to have a little savings to weather the economic down times and our employees would be out of work. Profit is a GOOD thing.)
> 
> Anyway, thanks in advance for your answers.


It'd be like 1830 and we'd be sacrificing a lot of what you call good. I live in a tent for 4 months a year and can tell you that I'm very happy with less technology and dependence upon it.
Someone very intelligent told me that "anything worthwhile in life requires sacrifices".

The corporate is strong in you I see. No arguing with that. They're ruling the world right now. Call it "Corporatia". It's great , awesome, but why is everyone so unhappy?


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## clyderoad

aunt betty said:


> It'd be like 1830 and we'd be sacrificing a lot of what you call good. I live in a tent for 4 months a year and can tell you that I'm very happy with less technology and dependence upon it.
> Someone very intelligent told me that "anything worthwhile in life requires sacrifices".
> 
> The corporate is strong in you I see. No arguing with that. They're ruling the world right now. Call it "Corporatia". It's great , awesome, but why is everyone so unhappy then?


It doesn't seem like you'd be too happy with no computer, internet connection or beesource forum! Do you have a hot spot near your tent or something?
Oh, maybe it's your perception that "everyone is so unhappy".


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## Rader Sidetrack

aunt betty said:


> I live in a tent for 4 months a year and can tell you that I'm very happy with less technology and dependence upon it.


I wonder what materials are used in the tent construction? 

Canvas, maybe? Cotton, perhaps? Buffalo skins?? :scratch:

One might hope that none of that _nasty _new-fangled artificial nastiness like polyester/rayon/nylon/PVC coatings is part of the the tent fabric, nor any of that fake wood stuff like fiberglass, shock-corded aluminum poles or carbon fiber poles. :no:


Does your tent have Wifi? If not, how will you read/post to Beesource? :s


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## Arnie

This is always the response when I ask these questions. I'm "Corporate" , "Brainwashed" , "Been fed a false narrative". My concern is not how unhappy you are with the world we live in. I want to see your plan to move us forward.

I would simply like a roadmap:
Call it 'The road from Here to There' 

Second: Tell me what 'There' looks like.

Why is that so difficult?


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## clyderoad

thinkpink said:


> I feel Aunt Betty has plowed some common ground for all of us. At least she has guts enough to speak her mind. I know several of the readers of this thread besides being somewhat entertained are holding back without joining in the discussions... Please speak up; you may have a fresh insight that could lead to a unique solution. At this late stage of the game, we need all the help we can get.
> Natural farming includes things such as no-till planting... Adding compost instead of chemical fertilizers... Planting perennial food forests, Permaculture. thinkpink


Aren't you taking a some liberty in using statements like "for all of us", "we need all the help we can get"? 
Who are you refering to? I hope you're not speaking for or including others in your dogma.

You are, as well as I am, old enough to realize that "natural farming" is nothing new, has been tried before and is actively being practiced so why discuss it like it is revolutionary?


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## thinkpink

Arnie I may get kicked off the forum for writing a book to answer your questions but will try. It will be a pleasure to answer as many as they will let me.
The "HOW" should be addressed from as many differing viewpoints as are ready to step up with their solutions as well as mine. I started by trying to retire in Hawaii when I met an older Filipino Man that introduced me to Natural Farming by feeding local Indigenous Micro-Organisms found in the soil molasses. Then that Live mixture would be placed in the compost and on the soil in the crops. I was impressed with the results and leased 2 acres of nice farmland from W.H. Shipman on the Big Islandand proceeded to clear and plant. Shortly after my girlfriend was diagnosed with Cancer we left the Islands to seek treatment in Minneapolis... back to HOW... Sorry...
I suggest we use our largest irrigated crop(lawn clippings) for generating compost for our foods. I have a commercial bagger(Cyclone Rake) My technique includes mowing a 6' wide grass strip and blowing the lawn clippings over a 6' wide planted area. If you can mow; You can grow... And also when I empty my Cyclone Rake I dump them in long windrows. Then I use a rototiller(17 inch wide) down both sides and then plant double rows of crop each side. This area is equal to 4 rows of crop planted conventionally 3 feet apart. The difference is I'm growing my fertilizer on site. Vining crops are even easier. I dump a 4'by4'by4' load of lawn clippings and then till around the pile. As each pile has 6 to 8 plants in a circle; you just water the one pile and it breaks down in one season... The second year is fantastic.
Your 2nd Question was about time... Most of America spends considerable time mowing their lawns... And yes the rest of the world's people that don't have lawns have pasture and some have nothing and are homeless... cont. thinkpink


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## thinkpink

Arnie your 3rd question... a new economic system? No, that's something I would ask business leaders such as yourself to tackle. But I did notify Goldman Sachs that the next time they needed a person to run a bank into the ground who they subsequently gave a $100 million dollar bonus from our bailout monies! that I was available.. and would do it for only a $50 million dollar bonus thereby saving our kids $50 million dollars they will have to pay back. Argh... What a rip-off...
Where you ask? When we have converted 50% of our lawns to food production I would move to the rooftops creating green roofs and then mowing my fertilizer.
Walmart is allowing greenhouses to be built on some of their stores and entering into log term contracts to buy the produce that's grown up there... What's stopping us from converting our own rooftops to food production? A typical day would be to check your soaker hoses on timers and later on larger scale production your computer controlled valves to apply water. Delegate and share responsibilities with the neighbor, a friend and or... You could exchange food items, work to reward(Foods). When time to harvest invite the neighbors... Teach MOW to GROW... No more Chemicals? Let's put it this way... You were born with the God-given ability to heal yourself. Look up the placebo effect... There are times when you will need a chemical and or natural medicine to heal and you should take them to save yourself. But when you are eating more nutritious foods you wont be sick as often and wont need as many of the medicines. cont. thinkpink


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## crofter

We better start growing more lawns to feed the process. Lets see all the fossil fuel inputs to this system. Lets look at all the embedded energy in the lawn mower, blower etc. before we attempt a balance sheet.
Not a lot different than fallowing land or growing a plow down cover crop. Nothing new there. Yet there is the sense that we should feel that we are being guided messiah like to a great revelation.

I see in an earlier post that others are suffering from enlarged egos! Hmmmm......!


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## Ian

Fluff


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## clyderoad

What about our beloved honey bees!!

This IS BeeSource in case you forgot.


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## thinkpink

Yes we are addicted to fossil fuels... And we will continue to use them until they are too expensive. We will probably start using more Alcohol as it's renewable.
That's my plan as you can make Alcohol from grass clippings. Check out "Alcohol can be a gas" by David Blume.
And last for now is Profit... What caught my attention was that Natural Farming methods are rising up to be more prevalent even in Conventional farming...
For example the technique of no-till... one less time over the whole field means real savings in fuel. And this is an input... Fold your mind around Inputs and Outputs... When a farmer reduces his inputs(Costs) his outputs(Crop proceeds) are also usually reduced. Most of the successful farmers can squeeze nickles into dimes. I've seen them do it... What usually prevents them from applying more Natural Farming techniques to their farms is their financial positions. They can't afford to reduce their chemical inputs and wait for their soils to heal. They have to make that bank loan back and will spend money(more fertilizer, sprays,etc.) in hopes of making that big output(Crop). And they usually do... A good book that explains it better than I is "Tomorrow's Harvest" by Hiram M. Drache.
Here it is in numbers: $100 dollars in equals around $105 to $110 out. With soils that can recover quickly the farmer can usually reduce his inputs by as much as 30% and reduce his outputs only by 20%... $70 dollars in... $84 to $89 out... equals 20 to 27% profits instead of 5 to 10 %... Hope this helps and I encourage everyone out there to add something... thinkpink


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## Arnie

Thanks T.P.

Looks like I am well on my way. I already use my grass clippings in my garden, I don't use fertilizer, have a sprinkler on a timer, share veggies with my neighbors, and devote space to bees. 

Question: If organic food enhances our ability to fight disease so that we won't need medicine, why did the folks 200 years ago(who ate organic) only live to about 45? 

I'm with you on bailouts. I am firmly against ANY corporate welfare.


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## beeware10

time out. everybody go hug a tree. lol


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## Duncan151

beeware10 said:


> time out. everybody go hug a tree. lol


What about the trees that do not like to be hugged, and just want to be left alone?


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## Arnie

That was a fun discussion; but since this is a bee forum not a save the planet forum.........

T.P.... I suggest you find a beekeeper who has local nucs for sale and try those. Someone who raises survivor queens. You may find your garden produces a little more food and you will love the fresh honey your bees make for you.

Good luck. All the best.


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## thinkpink

I have fun with my friends who have bees as they are tending and allowing me to watch and learn.
But I will stick to improving my soils and planting more perennials to provide sustainable uncontaminated food sources not only for myself and others but also for the bees. Thanks for the welcome. thinkpink


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## thinkpink

when I say "all of us", I mean ALL of us. All people on this planet. Any problem for one affects us all.
We all breathe the same air and drink the same water no matter how many times it evaporates from the ocean to fall as rain again on our mountains.
When I mention Natural Farming I mean the opposite of conventional Chemical farming... Using natural methods to not only grow foods but to improve the health of the soil. Remember: Healthy soil, Healthy plants(Happy and Healthy bees), Healthy bodies, Healthy minds and Healthy Spirits. thinkpink


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## jbeshearse

thinkpink said:


> when I say "all of us", I mean ALL of us. All people on this planet. Any problem for one affects us all.
> We all breathe the same air and drink the same water no matter how many times it evaporates from the ocean to fall as rain again on our mountains.
> When I mention Natural Farming I mean the opposite of conventional Chemical farming... Using natural methods to not only grow foods but to improve the health of the soil. Remember: Healthy soil, Healthy plants(Happy and Healthy bees), Healthy bodies, Healthy minds and Healthy Spirits. thinkpink


So how many of the people that live here do you think can practice sustainable natural farming? If not them then who?


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## thinkpink

We don't need any inputs as homeless people on the streets of South Central LA. We could push our shopping carts along the road in any of the local neighborhoods on grass day and fill our carts with the black plastic bags of lawn clippings that are set out on the curb for pickup. Then we could sneak them in on any of the more than 25 square miles of empty lots that the city owns and create our own food plots. Just think of it... Homeless people saving the World... Watch Ron Finley on Ted Talks... Now there is a Real down to earth Messiah.


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## thinkpink

Yes you're right, but without healthy soils and plants with little contamination we wont have any bees. thinkpink


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## jbeshearse

jbeshearse said:


> So how many of the people that live here do you think can practice sustainable natural farming? If not them then who?



7.1 million people in Hong Kong. How many "natural farmers" will it take to not just feed their own family but all those in Hong Kong. To think that mom and pop natural farmers could feed todays urban populations is like thinking you can ride unicorns on rainbows. Todays farming is like it is because it has to be to feed the ever growing masses. If we want to feed the world with "natural farming practices" we will first have to place some severe population controls in practice.


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## thinkpink

Everyone must seek his or her own food security. I think we all have to start somewhere... We must first self-educate and verify what we're told... It could be that for those who can buy seeds and do sprouts that's their start. For people with no money they may have to forage and learn the most nutritious plants to eat such as Lambsquarter it grows almost everywhere. The Roman soldiers marched days at a time, sometimes day and night and then right into battle. As they were marching they stripped seeds including lambsquarter and placed them in a leather pouch on their sides and when crossing streams they would scoop water into the seeds and a day later were treated to fresh sprouts on the go. Sprouting doubles the food value of seeds. thinkpink


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## jbeshearse

thinkpink said:


> Everyone must seek his or her own food security. I think we all have to start somewhere... We must first self-educate and verify what we're told... It could be that for those who can buy seeds and do sprouts that's their start. For people with no money they may have to forage and learn the most nutritious plants to eat such as Lambsquarter it grows almost everywhere. The Roman soldiers marched days at a time, sometimes day and night and then right into battle. As they were marching they stripped seeds including lambsquarter and placed them in a leather pouch on their sides and when crossing streams they would scoop water into the seeds and a day later were treated to fresh sprouts on the go. Sprouting doubles the food value of seeds. thinkpink


Really? where does this double come from? Thin air? magic?
if they are enclosed in the dark its not from sunlight, if no soil is added, nothing gained there. so its only water. You would get the same food value from drinking the water and eating the seeds. Romans lived in different times. the majority of people in the world today live in urban settings where sustainable farming is a no go, even if they wanted to. Yes, a few could, but only a few, if all that lived in urban settings tried to grow all their own food, they would run out of the necessary real estate before they even make a dent in the food requirements for the city.


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## BeeBop

This thread is awesome. Comedy gold at it's finest. :thumbsup:


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## Arnie

I kinda like it. Saving the world through grass clippings. Cut the grass, don't use fertilizer, grow some veggies.....Done!! 

Sorry T.P. I really shouldn't make fun. You did try to answer my questions when no one else would bother. But it does seem to come down to grass clippings all the time. Grass for fuel, grass for fertilizer, grass for better nutrition. 

And by the way; lambsquarter, purslane, sow thistle, sorrel all find their way to my table. Good stuff.


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## thinkpink

Google makes it easy to verify what we think we know... And what others say... Please go to www.living-foods.com and self-educate
This is only one site of many... Cheers... thinkpink


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## thinkpink

That's okay Arnie. The others will follow(the Thread) when they get hungry enough. To self-educate and change their mind-sets deep in their own sub-consciousness. I have faith in them, they will get it with Time, experiences and again, self-education... I believe the majority of our readers will Verify what is said(and should) then they will move in the direction that's right for them...
On a related subject... Have you watched "Cowspiracy"? You and others might be very surprised. Also, if you look deeply at Grass you will find that our entire country is continuing to run on the stored riches of the soil that was created from millions of years, buffalo and Grass... Grass is the start...
Ahhh... dancing through the minds of many, seeking to help never to hurt... These last statements should shake up the forum eh? (That's Canadian
for those that don't know)... Love you guys and gals... Hang in there, this can't last forever... The'll miss us when we're gone....


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## D Semple

lol, perfect treatment free beekeeping candidate in the making


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## thinkpink

Absorootly light... This is a bee forum... And I need a break... See you all(Hear no evil, see no evil and speak no evil) later... 
GROW YOUR OWN FOODS..................................................................................................... thinkpink


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## aunt betty

The wave of new solutions will create a bigger wave of new problems. That's a rule, a law. "Solutions create problems". 

The idea is to make a quick profit and escape before the problems arrive. That's how our world is being run. It's all about the "now" and who cares abut the future because "I'll" be dead. That is a very selfish way to live life. If I had a dollar for every time someone said "I'll be gone so who cares?" I'd be Warren Buffet rich.

New ways of farming will create future deserts. It's a given. Chemical agriculture based on petro-chemical industry is not sustainable at all yet that's the direction we're heading. Hope your future kids like eating sand.

My philosophy is: Either we're farmers, herders, fishermen, hunters, gatherers, and keepers of bees OR we're future Gods that will expand into the universe and conquer it. We, the human race, have to decide our path and I'd strongly recommend the farmers, herders...path. Read your bibles and you'd see real quick that we're not Gods. We're the fishers of men. There is a higher power than us. Admit it please.


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## thinkpink

Way to go Betty... But please be Careful you don't fall into that negative abyss that you have chosen to gaze into... We know that it is there but we don't need to give it very much energy... I know that if you turn your eyes upward to the positive you will fly... You have wings...
I heard it said once that we are not humans seeking a spiritual life... We are spiritual beings living a human life... Yes Betty, GOD is real. thinkpink


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## McBee7

Welcome to BeeSource Pink...
I see you've met a few of my friends...LOLOL..
As you have discovered there are a lot of educated and papered folks here on BS,, scientists of different stripes, PHD's and engineers, even teologians and philosiphers, even plain old folks and electricians like me and you... and all will debate your (and mine) attempts to improve this worlds woes.....So I try to keep my input to only provable facts related directly to BEEs, which is all I'm here for anyway..
I never dreamed I'd see you push this many buttons, without being censored in just the welcome forum,,,LOLOL.....But I see you defend yourself admirably even in this heat,,so again I say welcome and forge on through these murky waters in the search and sharing of pertinent info for the improvment of life here on tera-firma......cheers.:applause:

==McBee7==


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## thinkpink

Just got back from picking my girlfriend up from the train station... She had to go for her 2nd year Cancer checkup. Noticed your welcome post. 
Thanks... Your friends have been fair and firm... Knowing you I would expect no less. Crystal says hi and adds that she just can't leave me home alone with access to a computer. I see where she's left herself a note,"must change password". Ha... Anyway, how are your bees... And what thread would you advise me to read ? So I could learn how to overwinter bees. I promise to just sit in the back with my mouth shut and just watch and listen... I'd be sure to learn more that way...eh? Oops that's Canadian... uh oh he's leanin... look out... thinkpink


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## Michael Bush

>I'd be sure to learn more that way...eh? Oops that's Canadian... 

Or North Dakotan...

> That's a rule, a law. "Solutions create problems". 

Sevareid's Law: "The leading cause of problems is solutions."--Eric Sevareid


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## Joel

thinkpink said:


> I promise to just sit in the back with my mouth shut and just watch and listen... I'd be sure to learn more that way...eh? Oops that's Canadian... uh oh he's leanin... look out... thinkpink


Never ever do that Thinkpink. Here on Beesource we are some pretty opinionated and outspoken folks, as you have seen. If the members here kept quiet because of a perceived slap down (many have, many have left), or controversial ideal challenged, thousands of new ideas, trials and successes would never have made it into view of 1500 or so beekeepers here and well beyond. This is the true power and value of the internet. I, as many here, have been in some very epic and spirited debates. Your voice, your thoughts, your wisdom of 63 years may feel like a voice in the wilderness to you but is is a voice which needs to be heard. I know this from serving a hundred thousand customers annually in Gotham City for the past 17 years. Really good people walking around on concrete and breathing smog supporting our small farms because deep inside there is a connection to the earth they all instinctively feel isolated from and need. Post your unicorns running on rainbow ideals (as they relate to beekeeping) right along side links to people who are successful in at least moving toward that ideal. Somewhere between the idealists and the realists is a world we may all be able to find peace in. We are not trying to shout you down, though it may feel that way some times. Be outspoken by all means! Keep in mind Beesource is a thread about beekeeping, one small facet of the ideal, so we are all of course looking and expecting that to be the crux of topics.


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## thinkpink

Thank you Joel. I will try to stay on topic(Bees). The only reason I went so far afield is that I sincerely believe without health soils and plants we wont have any bees to care for... At least those in the wild... thinkpink


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## Bee Bliss

I know a lot about organic gardening and growning food. What some people don't know is that with organics the gardener/farmer is creating/restoring healthy, living soil by feeding the microorganisms that should be living in all soil. It is the breakdown of organic matter that feeds the soil organisms and that is what in turn feeds the plants (the broken down matter becomes water soluable which the plants can then use). The saying is "feed the soil and let it feed the plants".

The problem with chemicals used in growing foods is that those chemicals tend to kill off the bacteria and fungi in the soil as well as other soil critters like bugs and worms. Dead soil will not feed plants. So the cycle goes on. Chemicals cripple the soil and then only the chemical fertilizers (basically instant food when watered in) are able to feed the plants. Mother Nature is best as organics are supposed to break down gradually feeding the soils and thus the plants over a period of time. Organic matter is important to improve soil structure, fertility and texture. Plants need oxygen in the soil, too. Organic food has more nutrition and flavor because plants are getting a balanced diet via organic matter in or on the soil.

Ok, what are we doing??

We have a 1/4 acre of clay soil in the neighborhood we live in. Several years ago we planted many fruit trees and berry bushes which are starting to produce. We have a very small garden, but lots of fruit we grow and share with others. We have pears, apples, cherries, plums, pluots, currants, grapes, etc. We typically harvest 500 pears off of our small Bartlett pear. This year we got 60 lbs. of Danube sour cherry (also small tree) that is also sweet enough to eat right off the tree. We do not spray but are thinking of using an organic(clay) spray to coat apples to deal with pests or netting. We also like our edible crab apples (sweet and tangy Centennial variety) which are the size of a plum.

Our lawn is in progress to be organic and nice looking. We haven't used any lawn chemicals in years. We mulch mow at a high setting to fertilize the soil and lawn. A lawn that is thick and 3 inches tall will prevent many weeds. Years earlier we collected our lawn clippings and composted that with the fall leaves for our garden. Nitrogen (grass) and carbon (fall leaves) yields compost which we use on our garden. At times, we throw used coffee grounds or alfalfa pellets on the lawn and soil thus feeding our lawn and the fruit trees and berry bushes. Our tree roots do extend below the soil surface into lawn areas so both lawn and trees benefit.

Almost forgot, we have bees in our backyard and they provide honey and pollination for us! They and we enjoy the flowers/herbs we grow also.

We benefit with excellent tasting fruit that is healthy. You can't buy this in most stores. Wish we would have starting doing all these things including beekeeping years earlier.

I'd like to see neighborhoods where many yards have at least one fruit tree. Even for someone that doesn't garden, they can grow fruit with little time involved. It's not difficult to incorporate into a yard if you have one.


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