# Formic Acid Flash Treatment



## Calibeekeeper (Mar 31, 2014)

Has anyone used the Formic Acid Flash Treatment?


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## B&E (Dec 27, 2011)

yup. all the time.


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

Calibeekeeper said:


> Has anyone used the Formic Acid Flash Treatment?


Interested in defining what you mean by "flash?"


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## babybee (Mar 23, 2012)

I am assuming he is referring to the Randy Oliver article in the latest abj. And I have no experience in this at all but am interested for sure.


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

I have used formic acid using a fumigation technique written up at West Virginia University. I've only tried it once, and it seems to have worked OK. It does kill a small number of bees, but overall the hive tolerated it, and the mites not so much.

http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/varroa/FormicAcid.pdf


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

I have used it (only running 12 hives, not commercial). First time I did it I had my concentration too strong, the bees bearded bad and I had a bad kill. After I got my solutions correct it does pretty good. I have a couple of hives with a screen bottom board and I do not get a good result on them (both years running it). My experience: you really need to seal the hive as per the directions, You add too much and they beard out and do not get a good kill, if you put it below honey supers the bees move up above the fume board and you do not get a good kill. Do a test before and after, for some reasons sometimes it just seems like I got something wrong. My summer weather is almost always in the zone for the temp requirements.


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## Calibeekeeper (Mar 31, 2014)

Flash by Randy Oliver article in the latest ABJ


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## B&E (Dec 27, 2011)

We put on a meat pad each time we are in the hives spring and fall. Sometimes we may get 10 on in a year. I have no idea if this is what Randy is referring to. I will email him.

We have had good success controlling. We buy 65% formic and don't cut it. My friend who runs a lot of 4 frame nucs even puts a full pad right on them and doesn't have a problem. We don't have problems with killing queens this way. There is better efficacy in a single. (we run doubles), but in a double it doesn't matter if it's 30c out. in singles you can get bad beading if it's that hot, but the bees seem to still be fine.

I have never seem damaged brood from this system.


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## RAK (May 2, 2010)

Same deal here. I get the pads that soak up 40ml of 65% formic. "Flash" has been around for a while.


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## PeterP (Feb 5, 2014)

Calibeekeeper said:


> Has anyone used the Formic Acid Flash Treatment?


I use meat pad treatment (hobbyist with time). The flash method has been around for a while and is used more by sideliners.

Here is a link to a write up 
http://www.apinovar.com/articles/flash.en.html

You don't need the special bottom board but it makes it simpler.

Regards Peter


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

This is what I believe is generally referred to when doing a formic flash treatment. I have built several this fall and plan to use them in the spring. They are quick and easy. Based on personal communication with someone who has used them for several years I bought some pet training pads. They are supposed to be very good at soaking up the formic. He puts them on in the evening and takes them off the next morning.

http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/varroa/FormicAcidppt.pdf


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## Calibeekeeper (Mar 31, 2014)

Does any chemical store carry formic acid?


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## babybee (Mar 23, 2012)

Wintersun


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

ebay. duradeisel - good prices. you will have to dilute the acid to 65% or 50%


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

My Thanks to PeterP and to camero7 for the links, 
this gives me a game plan to experiment with in 2015.

http://www.apinovar.com/articles/flash.en.html

http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/varroa/FormicAcidppt.pdf


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

B&E said:


> I have never seem damaged brood from this system.


Any queen issues?

Whenever I've used MAQS I seem to lose a few queens, and almost all of them stop laying for 2-3 weeks after treatment. Don't know if it's the formic, or the MAQS in particular.


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## JSL (Sep 22, 2007)

Here is a link to Allen Dick's diary page, just scroll down to October 12th. He gives some good advice and I think it is similar to the method Medhat Nasr worked on for the commercial beekeepers in Alberta.

http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/2000/diary101000.htm#Formic


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## acbz (Sep 8, 2009)

Has anyone tried MiteAway? Bill Ruzicka has an interesting website and I've gotten some positive reviews from people who've used it. I don't like MAQS and I think the West Virginia U method is too labor intensive for commercial. I'm trying to form my Plan B for when amitraz quits working. Required labor is going to be more no matter how formic is applied.


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## PeterP (Feb 5, 2014)

You can also consider the "single application of formic acid" technique if you want to reduce labour cost due to frequency of the smaller pads.

http://www.ontariobee.com/sites/ontariobee.com/files/document/250ml-pamphlet-op.pdf

Be aware that no matter how you are applying formic acid you are trying to achieve a level of acid precipitate that kills mites but not the bees. It is because the bees can tolerate a higher level of acid that it works. Higher temperatures, excessive doses, smaller cluster (reduced ability to ventilate) will increase the impact on the bees. Some proponents suggest they can kill mites in capped cells. I suspect if they are they are also killing bees and if unlucky the queen. 

Multiple small doses at intervals timed to mite life cycle works like compound interest savings. Slow but steady with limited risk. It gradually knocks them back with limited risk so long as the temperature doesn't spike above 30C during the first 3 days of each treatment.

MAQS uses a gel delivery to assist in handling safety and dosage control. High temps and small clusters can still result in dead bees.

I find slow release formic works well enough to hold the mites back until the bees stop brooding and then I give an oxalic dribble. When the bees stop brooding the temperatures are too cool for formic.

Regards Peter


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## Lady Luck (Mar 15, 2012)

Since it is well known that formic treatments can penetrate capped brood and kill female mites, I would think the further the capped brood is from the formic pad the less chance any mites would be killed-such as a bell curve situation. Which is why multiple treatments are needed. However, I have always wondered if male mites, which I believe have no exoskeleton, would be much more susceptible to formic treatments and if they were killed under the cappings


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## Lady Luck (Mar 15, 2012)

to finish my post: but the sister mites in the same cell may not be killed--if that would happen and the sister mites had not been bred would that be their last chance to reproduce? Any thoughts?


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

My thoughts would bee that any mites that survived the treatment will have a potential to 
mate later on to multiply when they go inside the cell to reproduce again. What makes it more tricky
is that some mites will stay outside while the other are inside the capped cells. So it is like a flip flop thing.


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## babybee (Mar 23, 2012)

The female mites mate with their brother. The formic acid treatment is better at killing the male mites in the capped brood than the females. But can those surviving virgin mites then able to mate with some other male mite? I haven't any idea.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

babybee said:


> The female mites mate with their brother. The formic acid treatment is better at killing the male mites in the capped brood than the females. But can those surviving virgin mites then able to mate with some other male mite? I haven't any idea.


I hadnt heard this, but if that is the case then the answer (Im pretty sure) is no, because a bred varroa first lays a sole, unfertilized, male egg followed by fertilized eggs resulting in females at a rate of approximately 1 per day. Unless there are multiple varroa in the cell, the killing of the sole male would be all that would be required to doom the later hatching females from getting mated.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Since it is well known that formic treatments can penetrate capped brood and kill female mites...

Could you point me to a study that shows this? I have heard people say it, but I have not seen a study that supported it yet.

>The female mites mate with their brother...

She MIGHT. If more than one foundress moves in, she might not.


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

> The formic acid treatment is better at killing the male mites in the capped brood than the females.
I also have this information.

>the killing of the sole male would be all that would be required to doom the later hatching females from getting mated.>
I also have the same idea Jim.
"This first egg is normally unfertilized and due to the haplo-dip- loid sex determination system it develops into a haploid male, while subsequent female eggs are fertilized and laid in 30 h intervals (Ifantidis, 1990; Martin, 1994; Rehm and Ritter, 1989). Up to five eggs in worker brood and up to six eggs in drone brood are considered as the normal ‘‘reproductive program” (Garrido and Rosenkranz, 2003; Martin, 1994, 1995a). […] Varroa mites become sexually mature immediately after the last molt. Males reach maturity before the females and stay at the fecal accumulation site, waiting for the first adult female which molts to adulthood some 20 h later. As reproduction can only occur inside the brood cell, males start mating as soon as the female arrives (Donzé et al., 1996)." in Biology and control of Varroa destructor Peter Rosenkranz, Pia Aumeier, Bettina Ziegelmann, Journal of Invertebrate Pathology 103 (2010).


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

Lady Luck said:


> to finish my post: but the sister mites in the same cell may not be killed--if that would happen and the sister mites had not been bred would that be their last chance to reproduce? Any thoughts?


A very pertinent question . In 2010 the research findings were inconclusive .
"Unfortunately, the reasons for the infertility of Varroa females, in general, are unknown. As unfertilized females are not able to reproduce (Martin et al., 1997) it was assumed that these infertile mites represent young Varroa females which failed to copulate during their maturation (Harris and Harbo, 1999). Fuchs (1994) supposed that infertile females had lost their reproductive ability. Two observations contradict these hypotheses: In the phoretic mite populations on adult bees nearly all mites have filled sperma- theca (Garrido, 2004) and ‘‘infertile” brood mites, which were transferred artificially to other newly sealed brood cells, were still able to reproduce (Weller, 2008). This suggests that temporary infertility of Varroa females is induced by host factors."
in Biology and control of Varroa destructor Peter Rosenkranz, Pia Aumeier, Bettina Ziegelmann, Journal of Invertebrate Pathology 103 (2010).


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

Michael Bush said:


> >Since it is well known that formic treatments can penetrate capped brood and kill female mites...
> 
> Could you point me to a study that shows this? I have heard people say it, but I have not seen a study that supported it yet.


J Econ Entomol. 2008 Apr;101(2):256-64.
Short-term fumigation of honey bee (Hymenoptera: Apidae) colonies with formic and acetic acids for the control of Varroa destructor (Acari: Varroidae).vanEngelsdorp D[SUP]1[/SUP], Underwood RM, Cox-Foster DL.
Author information
AbstractControlling populations of varroa mites is crucial for the survival of the beekeeping industry. Many treatments exist, and all are designed to kill mites on adult bees. Because the majority of mites are found under capped brood, most treatments are designed to deliver active ingredients over an extended period to control mites on adult bees, as developing bees and mites emerge. In this study, a 17-h application of 50% formic acid effectively killed mites in capped worker brood and on adult bees without harming queens or uncapped brood. Neither acetic acid nor a combined treatment of formic and acetic acids applied to the West Virginia formic acid fumigator was as effective as formic acid alone in controlling varroa mites. In addition, none of the treatments tested in late summer had an effect on the late-season prevalence of deformed wing virus. The short-term formic acid treatment killed > 60% of varroa mites in capped worker brood; thus, it is a promising tool for beekeepers, especially when such treatments are necessary during the nectar flow.


PMID:18459386 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>J Econ Entomol. 2008 Apr;101(2):256-64.

Thanks.


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

Peter P,

The West Virginia University SARE grant project did not find a problem with formic acid killing the queen, but they did find that about 25% of the time it resulted in the workers balling her. To prevent regicide, they added a dose of Honey Bee Healthy to their brew, which their data indicate pretty much solves the problem.

The version of their approach that I used as a guide has a history of measures to try to get around the balling problem. That appears to be why their fumigation box is so complicated, with an escape path for the queen to get above it. That measure is probably unnecessary if you get the dose right and use the HBH to protect the queen. And they mix the HBH in with the formic acid solution, but warn that it should be done just before application as the acid will degrade the HBH. I'd suggest that the best approach is probably to never mix the two, but put in a seperate pad with the recommended amount of HBH (or an equivalent ... I think the active ingredient is Lemon Grass Oil).

Someone asked where to get the formic acid. Someone in the forum found it at Duda Diesel, sold as a biodiesel-making reagent. That's the most reasonably-priced source I've seen. Theirs is 95%, but concentration can vary. I used a hydrometer (McMaster Carr sells one that cover the recommended specific gravity) while diluting it in order to get the recommended concentration used in their study, then stored the doses in well-sealed bottles to give to others in my club who wished to try this. Mix it outdoors, standing upwind, and a respirator is an excellent idea. If you don't use eye protection you are a [email protected]#%ed fool.

Hydrometer: McMaster Carr 38865K14, 1 to 1.22 SG

http://www.dudadiesel.com/choose_item.php?id=formic

My fumigator was simpler, lacking the queen escape pathways that I suspect are just a leftover from an earlier attempt. I used a shallow frame with a screen across the bottom, a quilt box I'd already built, as the holder for the pad. I used the telescoping cover right on top of that to eliminate top ventilation. I blocked the bottom vents on my vented Freeman Beetle Traps, with an IPM board installed, so that the bottom ventilation was limited to the entrance reducer.

My queen was fine after the treatment (I've only tried this one time). Some pupae were removed. These bees are supposedly VSH, so it is likely that they removed infested pupae with dead mites promptly after treatment. Mite mortality was huge.


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## Steve in PA (Jan 26, 2015)

Reviving a very old thread. The WVU links are long gone. Does anyone have a backup site for them? I'm interested in their study.


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## Jack Grimshaw (Feb 10, 2001)

If I remember,early on it was Canadians that did a lot of work with Formic Acid.
Try googling keywords: 65% formic acid,flash treatment,meat pads
For the old web page go to the "wayback machine"





__





Wayback Machine







web.archive.org


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## Steve in PA (Jan 26, 2015)

Thank you Jack. I put the WVU address into wayback and the pdf came right up. I always forget about wayback.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

I think I have a print out of the old WV write up, but not sure, here is another site that early on posted a lot about doing flash treatments, I never used his stuff since miteawayII's came along at the right time MiteGone for effective control of the varroa & tracheal mites


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## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

acbz said:


> Has anyone tried MiteAway? Bill Ruzicka has an interesting website and I've gotten some positive reviews from people who've used it.


My wife got a notice that Bill passed away a few days ago.


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

grozzie2 said:


> My wife got a notice that Bill passed away a few days ago.


This is terrible news.
Almost everything that I know about formic acid was learned from Bill
I believe that apiculture needs more "Bill Ruzickas"
He was the farthest thing from a "straight line thinker".
He will truly be missed by many.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

HarryVanderpool said:


> This is terrible news.
> Almost everything that I know about formic acid was learned from Bill
> I believe that apiculture needs more "Bill Ruzickas"
> He was the farthest thing from a "straight line thinker".
> He will truly be missed by many.


Sad to hear that. He was helpful to me some years back regarding formic. Will be missed.


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