# game plan for inspections now? post split



## mlanden (Jun 19, 2016)

Today was a big day for splits here, so I'm wondering ..... what now? I'm a 1st-time splitter.

1. I transferred my split (5 frames) into a deep, along with 3 fresh frames and a frame feeder (locals tell me nectar flow's totally over now). What should I reasonably expect the girls to do at this point? 

2. My 1 hive I split, so now I have a) a hive with brood deep, new deep with all fresh frames, and a heavy honey medium.
b) a hive with brood medium, new medium with all fresh frames, and a lightly-worked honey medium.

No idea where the queen is among the a) and b) hives. I'm counting on the girls making a new one, whichever hive lacks a queen now. 

3. Should I have also put a feeder in hive a), although the honey super is packed with honey? :s

4. I set my entrance reducer for the new medium hive and the nuc-derived hive to the smallest opening -- to lessen the chance of robbing and vermin-entry.

Suggestions, thoughts, ideas, critiques, etc would be appreciated .....


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## bison (Apr 27, 2011)

*Re: game plan for inspections now?*

The hive that is without a queen will immediately realize they're queenless and start making queen cells from eggs/very young brood. In three or four days you can check for these (and figure out which hive is queenless), just be careful not to trash any cells as you move things around. Or you can just do nothing and check in a month - the old hive will have regrown and the new queen will be starting to lay. You'd note a decrease in bees in the latter and increase in the former.

Probably very optimistic to have put in new boxes with each that have undrawn comb. If the flow is over and the hives are either rebuilding or making a new queen it's unlikely that they'll draw much new comb. Drawn comb is gold for splits!

You say you put the feeder in the deep - that's hive A isn't it? It also has the heavy honey medium? So do you mean should you put a feeder on hive B? Perhaps though I don't know of medium frame feeders. 

I'm kinda confused now that I look at it... so you had one hive with brood in a deep, took 5 frames from it for a split... now have that split plus a medium hive (your hive b?).... what happened to the other deep frames?


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## bison (Apr 27, 2011)

*Re: game plan for inspections now?*

btw IMHO the fewer inspections after a split the better. If you see cells, leave it alone for a month.


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## mlanden (Jun 19, 2016)

*Re: game plan for inspections now?*



bison said:


> The hive that is without a queen will immediately realize they're queenless and start making queen cells from eggs/very young brood. In three or four days you can check for these (and figure out which hive is queenless), just be careful not to trash any cells as you move things around. Or you can just do nothing and check in a month
> 
> Hey, bison; yeah, I guess my description's kinda baffling. If it helps, here's what I now have (or what the bees have) --
> 
> ...


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## cervus (May 8, 2016)

*Re: game plan for inspections now?*

We're getting into the time of the year for SHB to really take off here. IMO, with additional boxes of undrawn frames,you have too much space for small bee populations (reduced by splitting) to defend. I would suggest reducing all your splits to nuc boxes until they draw out 70-80% of the frames. You'll probably have to feed (inside the hive) as it appears our spring flow is over now. Then you can transfer to full-size boxes. Too much space is counter-productive.


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## mlanden (Jun 19, 2016)

*Re: game plan for inspections now?*



cervus said:


> We're getting into the time of the year for SHB to really take off here. IMO, with additional boxes of undrawn frames,you have too much space for small bee populations (reduced by splitting) to defend. I would suggest reducing all your splits to nuc boxes until they draw out 70-80% of the frames. You'll probably have to feed (inside the hive) as it appears our spring flow is over now. Then you can transfer to full-size boxes. Too much space is counter-productive.



That sounds reasonable, cervus; I'll have to give it some deep thought. Plus ... for the medium brood box with the "fresh" medium and minimally-worked honey medium, should I just get rid of the fresh medium and place the honey super onto the brood medium? Would that work?


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## bison (Apr 27, 2011)

*Re: game plan for inspections now?*

OK, so 2 of the three hives are queenless, but you're not sure which two, right? As long as these have enough bees, eggs/young larvae, and some honey/pollen or a feeder then they'll probably be fine. I'd absolutely remove the extra undrawn boxes (by the way, it's "drawn", not "worked") until/unless the hive is quite full of bees. Remember that the two splits will lose population for the next five weeks as bees die off before new ones hatch, and in the mean time they'll be spending a lot of energy raising queen cells, so highly unlikely they'll draw any comb (especially in a dearth). 

A really strong hive can certainly handle two splits at the right time ... but it sounds like yours wasn't that strong (only one deep of bees) and the flow is apparently off. All three may survive but you'll probably have to feed like crazy. 

Get (or make) some nucs for next year - they are perfect for making splits. Drop in a few frames with bees, eggs, and stores, shake in a few more bees, then go away for a month.


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## cervus (May 8, 2016)

*Re: game plan for inspections now?*



mlanden said:


> That sounds reasonable, cervus; I'll have to give it some deep thought. Plus ... for the medium brood box with the "fresh" medium and minimally-worked honey medium, should I just get rid of the fresh medium and place the honey super onto the brood medium? Would that work?


I wouldn't put any more empty space on new splits until they needed it. Not now, not with hive beetles. I would condense to one box. A better idea is to just put the drawn/honey frames into the brood box and remove all boxes until they build up enough. If you don't have room in the brood box for more honey, freeze the frames. You can use them for later splits. Let them completely fill the brood box. You'll know, it will seem crowded.


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## mlanden (Jun 19, 2016)

*Re: game plan for inspections now?*

Thx a heap, guys; I see now I was being way over-optimistic (and not thinking things through much either; I'll keep blaming December's concussion). I'm working a couple of days in Atlanta-adjacent this week, but once I get home ..... getting to the hives right away to start "downsizing". Best-o-luck with your girls this year .....


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## mlanden (Jun 19, 2016)

*Re: game plan for inspections now?*



cervus said:


> I wouldn't put any more empty space on new splits until they needed it. Not now, not with hive beetles. I would condense to one box. A better idea is to just put the drawn/honey frames into the brood box and remove all boxes until they build up enough. If you don't have room in the brood box for more honey, freeze the frames. You can use them for later splits. Let them completely fill the brood box. You'll know, it will seem crowded.


Hi, Cervus; here's a little update (just back from on-the-road) from today's check on the girls ...

I peeked inside the 1-deep-only hive (from the May split). Had to add another gallon of sugar water (after only 4 days), so the bees're hungry. Seem to be drawing on all 8 frames in the hive now.

Mother hive -- saw 1 SHB and squished it. No new dead SHB's in the 2 traps I placed in the hive several weeks ago. Didn't go into the hive itself -- just checking the top area for SHB's.

Split from the mother hive (it's 3 mediums; made 4 days back) -- pretty much as you said: no bees'd gone into the "fresh" medium I placed on the top, and the 10 frames in the medium in the middle (drawn last year) hadn't had any new activity on them, as far as I could tell. I killed 6 SHB's -- too much space, I'm sure, for the bees -- and saw a couple fly away. Placed a SHB trap in there and removed the top (totally bee-ignored) medium. Maybe I should've removed both of the mostly-unused mediums, but the brood medium (bottommost box) was packed/drawn, and it looked really crowded.

Do you see any major lapses with what I did? Thx for feedback ......

Mitch


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## cervus (May 8, 2016)

*Re: game plan for inspections now?*

I don't see anything glaring. Removing the unused boxes is wise, especially at this time of year. You "should" be able to super if we get a fall flow. As far as a second brood box, I wait until I have at least 7-8 frames completely drawn in the original box. Sounds like you have that. Good luck.


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## Scpossum (May 4, 2014)

*Re: game plan for inspections now?*



bison said:


> btw IMHO the fewer inspections after a split the better. If you see cells, leave it alone for a month.


This is important. Mine build cells sticking out and sometimes when lifting a frame it tears a cell. I have learned to verify the cells are being built and then close them up until calendar says shes laying.


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## mlanden (Jun 19, 2016)

*Re: game plan for inspections now?*



Scpossum said:


> This is important. Mine build cells sticking out and sometimes when lifting a frame it tears a cell. I have learned to verify the cells are being built and then close them up until calendar says shes laying.


Makes sense to me, 'possum .... but I'm thinking that SHB's are already developing into a major issue with my "weak" split (the all-medium one). I put a trap into it yest., but wouldn't it be a good idea to just open the top every few days to monitor SHB presence? Not jostle frames around, etc, just open the tops to see if I can squash any beetles and if the trap has caught any .....


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