# Most folks really don't care where their queens come from



## Matt903 (Apr 8, 2013)

Since I have got into the sideline business of selling queens these past few years, I have noticed that most people who keep bees as a hobby, don't care about their queens. What I mean is, as long as the queen is laying, that is all they are really concerned about. I am sure commercial guys care, and the people on this queen forum care, but that is about it. I have stopped launching into my discussion on the genetics and particular attributes of the queens I am selling them, and just say thank.  Anyone else have the same experience, or am I way off base here?


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

Nope, I consider concern about queens genetics comparable to concern about a stray dogs genetics. Really, you are gonna waste your time on that thought?


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

A good queen is a good queen no matter her background (or lack thereof)......


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## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

The middle of the road guy and those who are looking forward with particular goals in mind. listen to the sales pitch and lend credence to it. The rest of the beekeeping world look for a reputable seller with proven track record and run with it.


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## lharder (Mar 21, 2015)

A well mated local queen is won't be subjected to shipping stress that a shipped queen sometimes experiences. Saw a recent presentation about that where they tracked conditions and subsequent queen quality. Local queens overall did better, lasted longer. The quality of queens before shipment is probably pretty good overall but becomes variable after shipping.


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## Sunday Farmer (Nov 13, 2013)

I can't speak to this completely but I am seeing a huge spectrum on care about genetics or where the queens are from. Lots of people who don't have bees in the spring all they care is that something is buzzing inside the box they're buying, but with that said last night I just picked up my first commercial account. This guy is sick of queens getting rejected and dealing with queen issues from newly bought Queens so looks like going forward I'm getting his business. He's interested in genetics but more about well-mated and well fed


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## Agis Apiaries (Jul 22, 2014)

Matt903 said:


> Anyone else have the same experience, or am I way off base here?


In many cases, yes, you are. We don't have a AHB problem here in Colorado. And when we order queens, most all of us are very particular where they come from. No way in heck I'd order queens from Arizona, for example.


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## kaizen (Mar 20, 2015)

I really wanted to get good genetics from some northern cold country queens this year and hoping I still will. However i'll tell you from a buyer standpoint its absolutely frustrating. I contacted the particular seller in the feb to be put on the buyer list. I only wanted a few as I want to try queen rearing this year. I got one email back and it wasn't a confirmation I was on the list. all subsequent communication is not answered. so what do I do? 
I go elsewhere. But now most of you are sold out which I completely understand. I just bought some from sunny Georgia to at least start building up my numbers. The seller is great and i'm sure they will be good queens but not what I want to build out with as I really wanted cold hardy ones. So here i am looking for great genetics and willing to pay through the nose and i can't.


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## Rusty Hills Farm (Mar 24, 2010)

Matt903 said:


> Since I have got into the sideline business of selling queens these past few years, I have noticed that most people who keep bees as a hobby, don't care about their queens. What I mean is, as long as the queen is laying, that is all they are really concerned about. I am sure commercial guys care, and the people on this queen forum care, but that is about it. I have stopped launching into my discussion on the genetics and particular attributes of the queens I am selling them, and just say thank.  Anyone else have the same experience, or am I way off base here?


You're kidding, right? Tongue in cheek? I spend a goodly portion of my online time checking out bee sites looking for information on their queens. Knowing what a specific breeder is using helps me know what lines to consider or avoid. I only buy 2-3 queens a year to test to include in my own line, but I spend hours agonizing over which ones they will be. As to ordering...that's what a phone is for in the middle of December or January--not now. Now is way too late to be thinking about this year's queens. I'm already working on NEXT year's planning.

JMO

Rusty


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## tanksbees (Jun 16, 2014)

I have not had a single package from a particular well respected local breeder survive for more than a year, yet meanwhile my apiary is 100% full of healthy productive swarms.

Whatever traits they are selecting for certainly don't work for me.

My gut feeling as a hobbyist is that many of the claims made by queen breeders are:
-overinflated or completely made up
-driven by the need to compete with other breeders who have bees with perceived features
-tested only after the fact by using the buyer to test bees
-location dependent and results will not be realized by many buyers
-possibly somewhat accurate for breeder stock but highly diluted in the $20 resale queens
-often diluted due to supercedure
-not truly tested using scientific methods such as double-blind tests

As such, I have had no interest in buying commercial queens, I feel I get superior results by catching swarms or splitting productive hives.

Mutt dogs are often thought to be healthier, so what is wrong with mutt bees?


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## Bee Tamer (Jan 21, 2016)

I am only in my third year so have only purchased about half a dozen queens. My first year I purchased two for emergencies and cared only the pat they were raised in New England. I have since chosen a Source who gave detailed info about his rearing and evaluation process and shares my philosophies on Treatments. I am planning to rear some queens this spring and am struggling to decide how to evaluate 3-4 well performing queens. I must admit I have been focused more on survival and learning how to manage the hives and the particulars of my locality. It does take longer to learn when only managing 2-4 hives. I will ask more questions next time I purchase a queen&#55357;&#56832;. I am also about to begin looking for one of those queen evaluation lists.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Like I almost always say, "I like the live ones." I have a preference for Carniolans, but I haven't bought any the last couple of years. I buy what's available when I'm looking for them.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

tanksbees said:


> My gut feeling as a hobbyist is that many of the claims made by queen breeders are:
> -overinflated or completely made up
> -driven by the need to compete with other breeders who have bees with perceived features
> -tested only after the fact by using the buyer to test bees
> ...


Hmmm, makes me really wonder where you've purchased all these bees to give you such a negative perspective. Let us know so we're all sure to never repeat the same mistake. 

Over the years I've purchased some incredible queens and some miserable ones. I've also caught lots of swarms (mutts), which in my experience are a mixed bag too.


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## RichardsonTX (Jul 3, 2011)

Matt, I say keep letting them know about the quality of your queens, including the genetics of the queens. I'd start off by asking them a question, "Is the quality of the queen and it's background important information to you?". If they say no then I'd give them a one sentence spill, hand them the queen, take their money, and say goodbye. If they say yes then tell them about the qualities of the queen and include questions in your conversation with them to keep it interactive. I got first rate queens in my original nucs I purchased and didn't realize how important it was until years later. I want my neighbors to buy good quality queens with good genetics so my virgin queens will mate with quality drones. If more beekeepers paid attention to the genetics and managed their bees with the quality of the queen in mind, it would make it a better environment for all of us. 

One beekeeper I talked to this year who was selling nucs couldn't tell me much about the qualities of the queens in her nucs. I thought it was pretty sad..........for the new beeks and the neighbors around them.


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## tazke (Mar 23, 2015)

I find the same thing to be true. 
"Do you have any queens?"
"Yes"
"Ok great I need x"

But if you say, "yes, what are you looking for?" You often get long list of attributes of their ideal queen that if you had you probably wouldn't sell, at least not for such low amounts.


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

It comes down to whether or not you are extracting income from your bees. 

If you are a hobbyist, you likely don't care. 

If you are producing honey, you want "good queens". 

If you are a Northern state commercial honey producer, you probably already know exactly what genetics you want, and know where to get them and have a good list of where NOT to get them.

Try asking Jim Lyons if he even gives a hoot about queens and genetics. (Sorry Jim )

In all truth, a well-raised queen with mediocre genetics is usually better than a poorly-raised queen with excellent genetics.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

I used to make handmade piccolos for top orchestral players around the world. We had a waiting list several years long for our instruments. Much of that waiting list consisted of hobbyists.

Hobbyists are often able to afford 'the best'.....and that's what they want. I dobut it's any different with queens.


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

True. Look at all the Flow hives being sold...:lpf:


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## SRG (May 23, 2014)

A lot of times,especially with hobbiest ,it's more poor management skills more than anything and it's easy to blame it on a bad quality queen that may or not be bad when things don't go as they believe they should.


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