# Winter feeding



## wltwine (Oct 13, 2009)

Hello fellow Beekeepers, My question is about feeding my bees in the winter, I have a feeder that fits on top of the super, do I have to take off the inner cover to use this feeder? and if so does the outer cover just lay flat on the feeder, (concerned about ventilation), also feeding suger do I just sprinkel it on the frames, and do I have to remove the inner cover also, I would appreciate any info thanks.


----------



## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

The hive top feeder you have sounds like it's used for feeding syrup. If so, it rests directly on top of the upper box and filled with syrup. No ventilation is provided unless you modify something. The outer cover rests directly on top. No inner cover is used. 

If you're intending to feed dry sugar, you don't need the top feeder. You can lay newspaper on top of the frames and pour the sugar on top of the paper. Add a shim or a box to surround the sugar, then an inner and top cover. Some people use an inner cover instead of the newspaper. 

I wet feed (syrup) until they stop taking it. Normally, they would be done by now but they're still busy feeding. When done with the syrup and if I intend to feed dry sugar, I lay newspaper on the frames of the top box, put an old medium on the hive, sprinkle sugar on the frames and top with the inner and outer covers. The rest is up to them.


----------



## SwedeBee1970 (Oct 26, 2008)

My syrup feeders are inside the box and they have vent slots on both sides. With this setup, the inner lid is not used to keep them from entering and drowning. Unless I'm feeding dry, I'll modify the venting so they can get through and insert the inner lid. Would suggest 2:1 syrup until one of the following: They stop taking it or night time temps get below 32 for more than a week. Dry sugar crystal after that until warmer. 

Another advantage to the inside feeder is that you don't have to remove it and release any stored heat from a cluster or bees, keeping them quieter and warmer on those chilly days you need to check sugar levels.


----------



## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

Winter feeding is NOT "normal". Bees are NOT pets, something to be fed and watered everyday. When properly managed througout the year, bees never need winter "feeding".


----------



## wltwine (Oct 13, 2009)

Didn't mean to upset anybody, just want to do things right.


----------



## brooksbeefarm (Apr 13, 2008)

Dave W said:


> Winter feeding is NOT "normal". Bees are NOT pets, something to be fed and watered everyday. When properly managed througout the year, bees never need winter "feeding".


In a perfect world that would be true but when you've had the rain that we've had spring, summer, and fall this year and last year it's a different story.Granted some of my hives are in good shape and will make it just fine, but i have some that without help they will die this winter.Let's not forget our fellow beekeepers who went through a bad drought this summer either, oh well i guess i got a little ticked, maybe we should do the normal thing and let them starve to death. Jack


----------



## brac (Sep 30, 2009)

I am thinking you have the same top feeder I have, I place it on the hive then set an empty super over it, then inner and outter cover


----------



## SwedeBee1970 (Oct 26, 2008)

Brac,

Make sure your inner lid does NOT have the half moon slot on it or bees can enter and drown in the mix.


----------



## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

And, if possible
Feed them nice warm syrup so that it acts like a heat sink.
How light are these hives?
Ernie


----------



## wltwine (Oct 13, 2009)

I have two deep supers total of twenty frames, both supers are for the bee's since this is their first year, checked the hive about a week ago, top frames were drawn out nicely, I have a miller type feeder, I just wanted to know if I take the inner cover off how dose the hive get the proper ventilation.


----------



## pamlico (Apr 29, 2007)

I am not far from you, and I use screened bottom boards. This type of board allows for good ventilation. As close as we live to the ocean, freezeing is not a problem for the most part. I use the plastic miller type (open) top feeder. Good luck with your bees.


----------



## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

>maybe we should do the normal thing and let them starve to death . . .
That's not what I am suggesting but . . .
I have heard some of the "all natural" group suggest that "live-or-let-die" improves the "stock".


----------



## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

I have kind of an in-between take on feeding. I feed for various reasons but not because beekeeping suppliers sell the equipment. Dave W. makes a good point when he states that it's not "natural". Without speaking for him, I would agree that feeding a colony when no other natural forage exists is not a natural condition. Yet, so many beekeeping "starter" kits contain a feeder and instructions to feed a package in the spring and a colony in the fall. I started that way myself until I read a LOT of posts here that broadened my perspective regarding feeding. In short, I'll feed a package...especially if I'm putting them on foundation. I typically treat for Nosema when I hive a package so feeding makes that effort easier. I also feed if a colony is lagging behind but recovering...for instance, after requeening due to a failing queen. I sometimes....but not always...feed in the fall to top a hive off, especially if the fall flow is poor and the stores are questionable. Hives that appear healthy and heavy do not get fed just because it's fall. I'm not saying that many beeks feed JUST because it's fall but I do believe that a lot of us automatically think along those lines just to play it safe. Regarding the effects of feeding versus natural selection, I can see a case being made that a marginal colony that should have died off is unnaturally kept afloat by feeding and that such feeding has a detrimental effect on selective genetics. However, I don't have direct proof that this is a significant issue so I believe it becomes an individual choice. Lately, I've come to believe that a good queen is far more important than a good feeding.


----------



## Jeffzhear (Dec 2, 2006)

Dave W said:


> Winter feeding is NOT "normal". Bees are NOT pets, something to be fed and watered everyday. When properly managed througout the year, bees never need winter "feeding".


I respectfully disagree - NUCs started in mid summer in PA/NY need to be fed. 

And, we had a tough year here with tons of rain from June to Oct....it seemed like most days the rain washed away the flow.....so, feeding was essential so they could build up some stores so they survive the winter.....

Just my opinion and not meant to be controversial.


----------



## brooksbeefarm (Apr 13, 2008)

witwine, was just asking how to use a feeder or any other way to feed his bees. Like he said he didn't mean to make someone mad just because he ask. There are reasons we have to feed our bees and i thought the response was uncalled for, but that's just me. Jack


----------



## Bens-Bees (Sep 18, 2008)

Dave W said:


> >maybe we should do the normal thing and let them starve to death . . .
> That's not what I am suggesting but . . .
> I have heard some of the "all natural" group suggest that "live-or-let-die" improves the "stock".


letting them starve would only improve genetics if we aren't taking any honey. If you take their honey, or pollen, or wax, or whatever, then let them starve as a result of our having robbed them, the only genes that might prevail would be genes that made the bees too aggressive to consider taking any hive products from that hive.


----------



## wltwine (Oct 13, 2009)

it's all good, I'll feed them if I think I need to, the hive has two deep supers full of honey, I did not take any honey this year, checked them about two weeks ago and they were full, so I think they have done well,I just did'nt know if I should still feed when they have packed out the house with honey.


----------



## Bens-Bees (Sep 18, 2008)

Yeah, with 2 deeps full of honey in NC, I wouldn't worry much at all... except about preserving those genetics...


----------



## Oldbee (Sep 25, 2006)

How many colonies do you have, wltwine?


----------



## brooksbeefarm (Apr 13, 2008)

SgtMaj said:


> letting them starve would only improve genetics if we aren't taking any honey. If you take their honey, or pollen, or wax, or whatever, then let them starve as a result of our having robbed them, the only genes that might prevail would be genes that made the bees too aggressive to consider taking any hive products from that hive.


Right on, or like i have done many times. start nuc's in late summer and they didn't have enough time to build up. When man took bees from the wild and put them in a box and manipulated them ( or try) for our needs or wants thats not normal either. But that could be another thread.:doh: Jack


----------



## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

>Without speaking for him . . .
I would like to add your words to my statement 

>I'm not saying that many beeks feed JUST because it's fall but I do believe that a lot of us automatically think along those lines just to play it safe . . .
Its important for Newbees to understand the "play it safe" and other REAL reasons for feeding. You defined them well.

>Lately, I've come to believe that a good queen is far more important than a good feeding . . .
I'm not sure how to emphasize this except to saying it twice 
A good queen is far more important than a good feeding.
A good queen is far more important than a good feeding. 



>Regarding the effects of feeding versus natural selection . . .
I was just making a "comment". Lets not discuss this ALL winter


----------



## Jeffzhear (Dec 2, 2006)

Do a search on the "MOUNTAINCAMP" method of feeding dry sugar. It has brought many a NUC or new colony with questionable amounts of honey through winter for me.


----------



## beehoppers (Jun 16, 2005)

For any Miller type feeder I use, I lay a small piece of screen over the inner cover hole and tape around it with masking tape. I lay a couple of small...1/4" or so...blocks of wood at the front corners of the inner cover and replace the lid. This allows about the same ventilation they get without the feeder and they can't crawl in from the top to drown.


----------



## wltwine (Oct 13, 2009)

Thank you, you explained it well, I think I'll try that.


----------



## chandler (May 28, 2009)

wltwine said:


> it's all good, I'll feed them if I think I need to, the hive has two deep supers full of honey, I did not take any honey this year, checked them about two weeks ago and they were full, so I think they have done well,I just did'nt know if I should still feed when they have packed out the house with honey.


This is my method as well. I have two deeps and a super on and are all full of honey. I only took one frame out of the super this year, the rest is for the bees. If they can't live off that, then beekeeping isn't for me.


----------

