# bee larva dying some seem gooey



## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

First off, at this time do not transfer anything between this hive and others. At least until you have determined the problem. Does the hive have feed could it be starving?

Gooey brood is something you do need to be worried about. I would suggest googling AFB and see if you can find some pictures that will help you determine if the hive has AFB.

However the other symptoms you describe being larvae dumped outside the hive, and bees crawling outside the hive, are not symptoms of AFB, they are most likely a varroa mite overload in the hive. Larvae that are killed by varroa can sometimes turn into a gooey mess, but it is a slightly different gooey mess than larvae killed by AFB.

So hopefully the problem is varroa, if it is the hive may die but at least you can re use the equipment. Which you cannot if it is AFB.

Are you able to post a good quality pic of the affected brood so we can look at it?

Other thing, my advise would be go back to the vendor and ask for a replacement nuc. Sick hives like this should not be sold.


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## Agis Apiaries (Jul 22, 2014)

If these are uncapped larvae that are gooey, as opposed to those that are already capped, it would be more likely that EFB could be a concern, not AFB. Take a look at the below link and see if this matches what you have.

European Foulbrood: A bacterial disease affecting honey bee brood


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## vtbeeguy (Jun 10, 2016)

checked out AFB but mine are all white not grey at all and no foul smell. camera is broke trying to borrow one so i can post pic up tomorrow. The top of the larva is intact but the bottom of them is a gooey mess. Could it be that there are mites and the bees are pulling the larva out to get at the mites in the cell? I heard Russian bees did that sometimes. I haven't noticed any mites not to say there isn't any. Last thing the state bee inspector inspected these on june 1st and gave them the ok but I'm worried so any help appreciated.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

vtbeeguy said:


> checked out AFB but mine are all white not grey at all and no foul smell.


Good, that pretty much rules out AFB which is the most serious problem.



vtbeeguy said:


> The top of the larva is intact but the bottom of them is a gooey mess. Could it be that there are mites and the bees are pulling the larva out to get at the mites in the cell?


Yes, that's what bees do with larvae killed by mites. Are these larvae pupated (ie they are shaped like an adult bee not a bee grub)? If so that would rule out EFB, and the problem is almost certainly varroa mites.



vtbeeguy said:


> I haven't noticed any mites not to say there isn't any. Last thing the state bee inspector inspected these on june 1st and gave them the ok but I'm worried so any help appreciated.


Not seeing them means nothing. The state inspector giving them the OK also means nothing because there is clearly a problem of some sort.

The link supplied by Agis Apiaries is an excellent guide and should help you arrive at a diagnosis. However at this point my feeling is the hive has a major varroa issue and you should not have been sold it.


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## vtbeeguy (Jun 10, 2016)

thanks for the replies looking through the links as well as some other stuff to try to figure this out. They are bee grubs not a pupated (bee looking) one. I'm thinking its got to either be mites or EFB. The other nucs i got from him are doing soo good i just hope i can get it figured out and they will be ok.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

If it is only bee grubs (whitish), and not pupated larvae then that points towards EFB, as per what Agis Apiaries suspected. If it was mites they kill a lot of pupated larvae as well.

Do check the hive has feed and it is not starvation.


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## beh010 (Apr 26, 2016)

It's worth calling your state inspector out if there is even a small chance of afb. That's why they are there. They can help you make an educated decision regarding next steps. Given its a very infectious disease, better safe than sorry. 

You should try the matchstick test in the meantime. Mush one of the dead larva up and check to see if it is stringy when you pull it out. If so, it could be afb. There are plenty of videos on YouTube showing the process and results.


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## vtbeeguy (Jun 10, 2016)

So going to contact the bee inspector. I cant tell if its EFB or if its mites or if its something else. I plan on taking a picture tomorrow i will upload tomorrow night. Big question for now is this nuc is sitting next to my other 2 nucs and 15 ft from my other hive. It literally shares a hive stand with the other nucs. Is it in my best interest to just move it away from the other hives? I feel like i should but dont want to rush into decisions.


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## Sunday Farmer (Nov 13, 2013)

vtbeeguy said:


> thanks for the replies looking through the links as well as some other stuff to try to figure this out. They are bee grubs not a pupated (bee looking) one. I'm thinking its got to either be mites or EFB. The other nucs i got from him are doing soo good i just hope i can get it figured out and they will be ok.


So you're going to call the inspector, right? 
Check out Penn State. They have a really good publication for bee diseases. As everyone suggests check out the EFB. But also do a mite count. Penn State lists crud brood under mites, and it can be confused with EFB. Someone correct me here if I am wrong but with EFB you can see the ventricles on the larvae darken or shrink as they twist in the cell, no? 

And, you know, contact the seller.


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## vtbeeguy (Jun 10, 2016)

Yeah I'm calling them Monday but I already sent an email to them. I did call the seller but haven't heard back from him usually he's only available in the mornings. Hoping maybe he will just replace it. I was excited about this queen though she looks awesome almost all black. Different from my other 3 queens.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

>Is it in my best interest to just move it away from the other hives?

Probably doesn't makes much of a difference, EFB infected hives are most likely spread by robbing or frame swapping by the beek. PMS from high mite population. 

Send sample for testing;
http://www.ars.usda.gov/Main/docs.htm?docid=7472 

Pictures will better help to diagnose your hive.

Here's some EFB pictures to compare;
http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...ease-help-ID-this-brood-disease-pics-included

Here's the Penn State Pamphlet;
http://extension.psu.edu/publications/agrs-116/view


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