# Just starting out and not having fun



## MichiganMike (Mar 25, 2014)

You need to provide a bit more information. What type of equipment, frames, bottom board, whether you fed or not. If a screened bottom board was it open or closed. Give the members something to work with.


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

Read this, I bet it answers your question as to why they left:

http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...TN-New-beekeepers-with-screened-bottom-boards


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

Actually, a lot more info would be healthy. Even screened bottom boards wide open isn't a sure cause. I've done that for years and never once had a hive abscond. It's a trendy answer here right now and it certainly might have been your problem but I suspect there's more to the answer. Lots of details please.


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## Nugget Shooter (Mar 28, 2016)

Ravenseye said:


> Actually, a lot more info would be healthy. Even screened bottom boards wide open isn't a sure cause. I've done that for years and never once had a hive abscond. It's a trendy answer here right now and it certainly might have been your problem but I suspect there's more to the answer. Lots of details please.


Yeah that.....


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## gtwarren1966 (Jul 7, 2015)

You used screened bottom boards didn't you?


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

Have you joined a beekeeping club or taken a class?

Looks like you're a little east of Richmond, VA? You may be in range of Colonial Beekeepers (Yorktown) or East Richmond. I don't know the clubs around Richmond well, but we have several here in Northern Virginia that are excellent, offering classes and mentoring. Check out this list:

https://www.virginiabeekeepers.org/local-groups/local-groups-list

The clubs I'm familiar with recommend nucs over package bees, especially when starting out. They cost more but they're established on comb, and are unlikely to just leave like that. Many clubs have a nuc-rearing program to provide local bees for new students.


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

Phoebee gives good advice here. There's rarely a single, succinct answer to this kind of question. There's a lot of people here whose experience extends to the last three or four posts that they've read. In our club, we have constant discussions (friendly arguments) regarding the "best" way to do one thing or another. But at the end of every year, each approach has its benefits and drawbacks.

For every solid bottom board argument, there's a screened bottom board success.
For every 8 frame medium suggestion, there's a 10 frame deep response.
For every wired foundation frame position, there's a foundationless approach.

No one answer fits all problems. Moreover, each solution is highly dependent on the unique problem.


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

CharlieMac said:


> Anyone have any idea on what I did or did not do right. The hives are brand new in a great sunny location.


Don't use screened bottom boards with packages in your location.


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## Hive5ive (Nov 21, 2015)

This is interesting. I use all screened bottom boards with my packages. I just don't open them until July or August. I think the comments should say if you have them don't open them, right? I know folks out there don't always like SBBs but my point of view is it's better to have them and not need them than need them and not have them. The trays are great to have to see what's going on in the bottom of the hive without tearing the hives apart.


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## billk (Apr 10, 2012)

Phoebee said:


> Have you joined a beekeeping club or taken a class?
> 
> Looks like you're a little east of Richmond, VA? You may be in range of Colonial Beekeepers (Yorktown) or East Richmond. I don't know the clubs around Richmond well, but we have several here in Northern Virginia that are excellent, offering classes and mentoring. Check out this list:
> 
> https://www.virginiabeekeepers.org/local-groups/local-groups-list


As Phoebee suggests check out the beekeepers club in VA. Most clubs have a mentor-ship programs and education classes for new beekeepers. I am just southwest of RVA and belong to Huguenot BK club. The leadership and advisers in the club are excellent. 



CharlieMac said:


> Can I get anymore bees this year? I am looking into traps and nukes but it would be nice to know why mine left after only 5 days.


a select few nucs are available as was announced at our last meeting. But I would certainly try and determine why your two hives absconded prior to purchasing more bees.


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## Spysar (May 15, 2016)

Brad Bee said:


> Read this, I bet it answers your question as to why they left:
> 
> http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...TN-New-beekeepers-with-screened-bottom-boards


It's just a thread to scold people even though you think your helping. So why not use it ? What is the reason that a screen makes them leave? All I hear is don't use it or close it. Well the board has two openings. I'm assuming you mean close off the opening where the mite observation tray is??? There are hive entrance reducers, why don't they make a reducer for the back hole where the tray is? Is it the screen they don't like, or the excessive air coming in where the tray is? If it's the air wouldn't a simple block of wood cure the problem?


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

Syspar, I didn't start the thread to scold anyone. I may have later, after someone poked me, but if you'll read my original post in that thread the thing was started to try and be helpful.


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## AR Beekeeper (Sep 25, 2008)

Those that think absconding is caused by open mesh bottom boards believe it is over ventilation, or over exposure to light.

The problem with that line of thinking is that beekeepers have had problems with bees absconding long before open mesh bottom boards (OMBB) were in use. There is an article in "Gleanings in Bee Culture", in the early part of the 1900s, in which one of the largest honey producers in the northeast states that he was no longer using the "Shaken Swarm Method" as a method of swarm control. His reason was because over 30% of the shaken swarms were absconding.

I have not installed a package in over 20 years, but I make several nucs, and install shaken swarms and natural swarms each year. All my colonies and nucs are on screened bottoms, and I have never had any absconding. I would recommend using a solid bottom on a weak nuc/package in cold weather, but if the night temperatures are 60 or above, OMBB are not a problem.

As for exposure to light from an open mesh bottom board, I don't believe it would cause absconding. There is a little problem with the bees not drawing comb all the way to the bottom bar of the frame, just as we see bees do next to the entrance of a solid bottom board. The solution to that is to have comb drawn in an upper box, then use it in the brood chamber on the bottom board.


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## Bee Havin (Mar 1, 2017)

If you want to drive up to MN I'll give you a Nuc.
Having bees is like raising rabbits.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

It seems to be more of a package bee issue, where a lot of reported abscondings coincide with using a screened bottom board with it open. Open means the mesh is exposed with open space below it, nothing to do about the entrance configuration as someone was asking. Did you have foundation or were you foundationless frames? Did you smear a bunch of lemongrass oil in the hives thinking it would help? Sounds like they may have released the queen then got out of dodge. If I were a betting man, I'd probably say, you went foundationless frames with a screened bottom or plastic foundation.


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## Hive5ive (Nov 21, 2015)

Ok, going to butt into this once again. I set up his configuration for him. Just like my hives. I did another three in my yard this spring the same way. Puzzles the heck out of me too. Eight frame mediums, small cell wax foundation, closed SBB and small opening on the reducer. The bees were from a reputable small cell provider I've been doing business with for years. The only thing I can think of was the weather was really crappy and rainy. We put a tent over the hives that day. It cleared up about two days later. Everything else was good for another day or two, then they just split. BOTH hives!


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## CharlieMac (Jun 1, 2017)

CharlieMac said:


> I had my two hives for 5 days and then they left. It was 6 lbs of bees and 2 queens gone in 5 days. Anyone have any idea on what I did or did not do right. The hives are brand new in a great sunny location. All I know is this is a very expensive hobby. Even though I have almost a grand in it already and no bees to show for anything right now. I am going to try to stick it out before the wife kills me.
> 
> Can I get anymore bees this year? I am looking into traps and nukes but it would be nice to know why mine left after only 5 days.
> 
> Totally confused and BEE-Ton


Eight frame mediums, small cell wax foundation, closed SBB and small opening on the reducer. The bees were from a reputable small cell provider I've been doing business with for years. The only thing I can think of was the weather was really crappy and rainy. We put a tent over the hives that day. It cleared up about two days later. Everything else was good for another day or two, then they just split. BOTH hives!


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## gtwarren1966 (Jul 7, 2015)

CharlieMac said:


> I had my two hives for 5 days and then they left. It was 6 lbs of bees and 2 queens gone in 5 days. Anyone have any idea on what I did or did not do right. The hives are brand new in a great sunny location. All I know is this is a very expensive hobby. Even though I have almost a grand in it already and no bees to show for anything right now. I am going to try to stick it out before the wife kills me.
> 
> Can I get anymore bees this year? I am looking into traps and nukes but it would be nice to know why mine left after only 5 days.
> 
> Totally confused and BEE-Ton


If you do get some more see if another beek will give you a frame of open brood to anchor them


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## CharlieMac (Jun 1, 2017)

Eight frame mediums, small cell wax foundation, closed SBB and small opening on the reducer. The bees were from a reputable small cell provider I've been doing business with for years. The only thing I can think of was the weather was really crappy and rainy. We put a tent over the hives that day. It cleared up about two days later. Everything else was good for another day or two, then they just split. BOTH hives!


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## COAL REAPER (Jun 24, 2014)

1. $1000 in new equipment while doing business with a reputable provider for years? and no bees to this day?? :scratch:
2. you put a tent over your hives? in virginia?? in the last week of may??? :scratch: :scratch:
3. youre still married? :scratch: :scratch: :scratch:

anybody good at maths? my 'adding up' is not working right now.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

I'm assuming he bought honey or other business dealings with, aside from the bees.


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## MichiganMike (Mar 25, 2014)

COAL REAPER said:


> 1. $1000 in new equipment while doing business with a reputable provider for years? and no bees to this day?? :scratch:
> 2. you put a tent over your hives? in virginia?? in the last week of may??? :scratch: :scratch:
> 3. youre still married? :scratch: :scratch: :scratch:
> 
> anybody good at maths? my 'adding up' is not working right now.


I fail to see the constructive advice, please point it out.


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## Hive5ive (Nov 21, 2015)

Hmmm. Guessing clarification is needed for those who can't add. Yep, it was rainy the day we boxed the bees so we used a tent. Yes, HE bought the bees from a supplier that I have buying bees from for years. Now I have to agree you need to round up really really hard to get to that grand for two complete hives, smoker, suit etc and a couple of packages of bees but when money is tight it might as well be ten Grand. 
Bottom line is I think we did everything right but they just obsconded. I like to put some drawn comb in with the packages but it was to rainy to break into an established hive. I've done it with and without.


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## CharlieMac (Jun 1, 2017)

Phoebee said:


> Have you joined a beekeeping club or taken a class?
> 
> Looks like you're a little east of Richmond, VA? You may be in range of Colonial Beekeepers (Yorktown) or East Richmond. I don't know the clubs around Richmond well, but we have several here in Northern Virginia that are excellent, offering classes and mentoring. Check out this list:
> 
> ...


I was just at Micheal Bush's seminar in Dahlgren with Jeff Allen. Jeff is who set these up for me.


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## CharlieMac (Jun 1, 2017)

6 lbs of bees $250.00 Then the two hives, with each having two boxes and 16 frames. Then I bought the suit, tools and smoker. Lumber for the platform for the hives to sit on is about $850 so not quite a grand. Well the wife is not going to kill me yet after 32 year and knowing me for 41 years. Still I have to hear I have no bees.


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## Hoot Owl Lane Bees (Feb 24, 2012)

Were you feeding them?
If I was in a house without food for 2 days of rain I might go find some also.
Just asking.


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## greenbee621 (May 31, 2017)

Hey Charlie, don't feel too bad, I'm right there with you; my first hive ever absconded yesterday. It's a pretty bad feeling, but I'm going to keep at it.

What's this lumber platform you have look like though?


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## CharlieMac (Jun 1, 2017)

greenbee621 said:


> Hey Charlie, don't feel too bad, I'm right there with you; my first hive ever absconded yesterday. It's a pretty bad feeling, but I'm going to keep at it.
> 
> What's this lumber platform you have look like though?


Here is a picture when the platform was almost done. It is 20" on the low side and 28" at the high side. The boards are 18" apart to hold the frames for maintenance. I did put stabilizer boards on the ends and two in the middle to hold the weight. This picture was before I did all that.


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## CharlieMac (Jun 1, 2017)

Hoot Owl Lane Bees said:


> Were you feeding them?
> If I was in a house without food for 2 days of rain I might go find some also.
> Just asking.


The Bees came with feeding cans and they were still half full when they absconded.


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## nediver (May 26, 2013)

Charlie-

Based on your info its really hard to say what might of happened.

I used screened bottoms for years and never had anything abscond. I am current hater of screened boards but I am not sure they were your issue.

Installing on just foundation is tough for the bees even with constant feeding. Get a frame of open or mixed brood -OR- comb from someone. Sometimes you need to crack open a hive in the rain...especially if you have a tent  or sometimes you need to keep the package in the house for a day or two. Point is next time comb at a minimum.

One thing you didn't answer was where was the queen and was she released?

A package of bees especially if they were shaken within a day are usually a disorganized mess of several hives. Thats not there queen. You throw them in and pull the candy cork on install day and she is out in a day or two sometimes. Not enough time. Sometimes you need to leave that cork for a few days and then pull giving them a week to get in order.


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## matrich99 (May 29, 2017)

I started my hive 24th of may. I put mine in a Warre hive with a mixture of 1:1 sugar syrup in the top brood box and two boxes underneath that. My bees are doing fine but of course, I got them in the mail and they were already building comb in the package box.(they were in the mail for 4 days) I had no problem with them. Of course going by this forum I am still in the honeymoon phase with them so who knows. Also, my mixture has some lemongrass oil(honey b healthy) so I am not sure if that helped or not. I really don't have any advice.

Why did you put the tent on top of your hive, the hive should be plenty of cover and with it raining they more than likely would have been just making comb? Also the same question most other people were asking did you feed the bees? With a package, it seems to be best to feed them at least for the first week. My questions are coming from a newbee so I just wondering if there is any significance with the tent or not?


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## CharlieMac (Jun 1, 2017)

nediver said:


> Charlie-
> 
> Based on your info its really hard to say what might of happened.
> 
> ...


The queens were not in their cages so I would assume they were released. As far as the packages they were in a nice clump so again I am assuming they were not shaken around. Except when we shook them into the hives.


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## CharlieMac (Jun 1, 2017)

matrich99 said:


> I started my hive 24th of may. I put mine in a Warre hive with a mixture of 1:1 sugar syrup in the top brood box and two boxes underneath that. My bees are doing fine but of course, I got them in the mail and they were already building comb in the package box.(they were in the mail for 4 days) I had no problem with them. Of course going by this forum I am still in the honeymoon phase with them so who knows. Also, my mixture has some lemongrass oil(honey b healthy) so I am not sure if that helped or not. I really don't have any advice.
> 
> Why did you put the tent on top of your hive, the hive should be plenty of cover and with it raining they more than likely would have been just making comb? Also the same question most other people were asking did you feed the bees? With a package, it seems to be best to feed them at least for the first week. My questions are coming from a newbee so I just wondering if there is any significance with the tent or not?


The tent was because when the bees came it was pouring down rain for almost two days. The morning after we put them in the hives I removed the 3 sides of an EZUP 10X10 tent. Then we removed the tent completely by the 2nd day. They stayed for 3 more days then absconded.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

The bee environment is not too cozy for them. Number one, the expensive hive stand is too sloped. Bees don't like to
draw out comb at an angle. After they had drawn out the comb then you can slope the hives. Give them a flat surface first. Number 2, there is no patty
subs for them to eat other than sugar syrup alone. Bees need 2 key ingredients in order to survive that is carbohydrates and
good solid food--either natural or the subs. 
Everything is still green but no forage in sight, not even a single blooming mustard green. Facing this hectic environment I too would move on to the greener side if I were them. Also, they have no fresh water to drink or cool down the hive. Where is the nearby lake or stream for water source? Putting a temporary tent over them is a no, no. They need water in order to survive. For protection they already have the hives. There is no need for the tent to shield them from the element. On rainy days I put sponges in the hive entrance so that they can take a sip. Mainly it is the lack of food. Even when the flow is on they still have a pound of patty subs to feed on. Just too many bees to not give them some feed. And hungry bees will not stay for long open/closed screen bottom or not. Too many newbie mistakes!


More bees, more food:


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## CharlieMac (Jun 1, 2017)

beepro said:


> The bee environment is not too cozy for them. Number one, the expensive hive stand is too sloped. Bees don't like to
> draw out comb at an angle. After they had drawn out the comb then you can slope the hives. Give them a flat surface first. Number 2, there is no patty
> subs for them to eat other than sugar syrup alone. Bees need 2 key ingredients in order to survive that is carbohydrates and
> good solid food--either natural or the subs.
> ...


No the stand is perfectly level. The ground is slopped. And there is a stream right behind them. Plus where I am at is 100% agriculture. 100,000 acres of fields and woods full of food. Plus the cans of food that came with the bees. Again it was poring down rain for two days straight. This was a very large easy up tent. Setup to put the bees into the hives. Then taken down. Again they stayed 3 1/2 more days after it was taken down.

They had plenty of food.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Hey Charlie. Join the Ashland Beekeepers Association. President Bob Lavoie lives in King William near the couthouse. Not to continue the sbb discussion, but he uses and recommends them for our area. I agree that the slope is too great on the hive stand. You only need a little for drainage if you are using a solid bottom. No slope if all your hives are screened bottoms.

Whre in K&Q are you? I live in Aylett just off 360 and 30.


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## Arbol (Apr 28, 2017)

CharlieMac said:


> The queens were not in their cages so I would assume they were released. As far as the packages they were in a nice clump so again I am assuming they were not shaken around. Except when we shook them into the hives.


there's the answer...no queens.
no queen = abscond.
been there,


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## CharlieMac (Jun 1, 2017)

Sorry the ground is slopped. The hives on one end were about 28" from the ground and on the other end of the stand that hive may have been 20" from the ground. The stand is perfectly level. If it is level I can always shim it to create drainage. BUT THE STAND IS LEVEL!!!


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

CharlieMac said:


> The queens were not in their cages so I would assume they were released.


In the original post it was stated 6 pounds of bees and 2 Queens, so I assumed you saw the Queens. In the post I have copied you state the Queens were not in their cages. What I am wondering is, were the Queens not in their cages when the bees were put in the hives or were they not seen in their cages at a later date. Maybe the cork came out of Queen cage during shipment. If the Queens got out of their cages while still in the packages they could have been dead at the time of release.
The syrup can being half full seems odd. Perhaps it was stopped up or spoiled. If I remember correctly the instructions that came with my bees said to discard the syrup can upon release and supply fresh syrup.
You may never know the answer. Better luck next time 

Alex


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

You may just have to chalk this one up to poor weather. You may still be able to get bees as a summer nuc. You would need nuc boxes so there is additional expense, about 100 bucks. Then you will need to get a frame of brood and a frame of capped honey and pollen for each nuc from another hive and let nature take its course. If they overwinter, you will be where you should be as far as honey production for next year. The packages weren't going to produce this year anyhow. Ther are other beeks near you, reach out.


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## nediver (May 26, 2013)

You got some good advice in this thread and like anything you need to sort though that which you feel isn't helpful. 

I still need clarity on the exact process the queens were handled. 

Also don't mistake a clump of bees staying warm in a package for organized bees. I didn't mean they were shaken badly or damaged. I meant many times packages are bees from many different hives. Shaken into a screen and given a queen that is not there own. 

If that queen was direct realesed or too early then you were queenless inside 3 days. They had no Comb, no queen, syrup and no protein patty. It's not a guarantee they would leave but they did in your case. The bees teach us lessons and you will be a better beekeeper for it. 

Your going to learn some expensive lessons that cost no money in the future. It's all part of the process of learning to be a good beekeeper. Which I used to think was easy and while I am better 5 years later I also acknowledge it's not easy all the time.


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## CharlieMac (Jun 1, 2017)

Thank you


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## CharlieMac (Jun 1, 2017)

That is what I am hoping I can do. Thank you for the support.


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## CharlieMac (Jun 1, 2017)

JWPalmer said:


> Hey Charlie. Join the Ashland Beekeepers Association. President Bob Lavoie lives in King William near the couthouse. Not to continue the sbb discussion, but he uses and recommends them for our area. I agree that the slope is too great on the hive stand. You only need a little for drainage if you are using a solid bottom. No slope if all your hives are screened bottoms.
> 
> Whre in K&Q are you? I live in Aylett just off 360 and 30.


I'm in Newtown


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

I'm with nediver on this one, 5 years into beekeeping with lots of knowledge gain but have not completely understand how the bee
world work. However, all the queens that I raised locally do stay because I take care of them well. Give them food during time of distress, all winter long and through the yearly summer dearth. They have no excuses not to stay. Somehow they do things differently from what we wanted them to do. Sometimes it is out of our expectation too. On new packages or new nucs install give them patty subs even when the flow is on along with syrup too. This is to stabilize their position at the current location. Give them a sense of stability in a good location so that they will not go anywhere else. If they struggle too much and not like the location then they will move on. Remember one time a member here mentioned that all 6 hives took off before the Autumn sets in. In beekeeping is it all about location, location and location. At this moment, if you still like to keep bees then get yourself one or 2 nucs however small to learn from it. This will give you a ahead start on understanding the bees especially how they behaved in certain circumstances.


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## CharlieMac (Jun 1, 2017)

nediver said:


> You got some good advice in this thread and like anything you need to sort though that which you feel isn't helpful.
> 
> I still need clarity on the exact process the queens were handled.
> 
> ...


I think your right. I am not beaten but just disappointed and hoping for a NUC soon. Really more disappointed than anything. I felt we did everything right.


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## CharlieMac (Jun 1, 2017)

beepro said:


> I'm with nediver on this one, 5 years into beekeeping with lots of knowledge gain but have not completely understand how the bee
> world work. However, all the queens that I raised locally do stay because I take care of them well. Give them food during time of distress, all winter long and through the yearly summer dearth. They have no excuses not to stay. Somehow they do things differently from what we wanted them to do. Sometimes it is out of our expectation too. On new packages or new nucs install give them patty subs even when the flow is on along with syrup too. This is to stabilize their position at the current location. Give them a sense of stability in a good location so that they will not go anywhere else. If they struggle too much and not like the location then they will move on. Remember one time a member here mentioned that all 6 hives took off before the Autumn sets in. In beekeeping is it all about location, location and location. At this moment, if you still like to keep bees then get yourself one or 2 nucs however small to learn from it. This will give you a ahead start on understanding the bees especially how they behaved in certain circumstances.


When your starting out everything is foreign, so how are you to know when you order bees from a reputable dealer?


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

White coroplast used to close off the screened bottom board may let light in. I would use a solid bottom board.


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## Spysar (May 15, 2016)

What about a slatted rack above the screen bottom? That is how all my hives are set up. But I don't have too much experience so I'm not sure. I do think is a better system with the screen and slatted rack, vs the screen alone.


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## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

CharlieMac, all we can do is guess at what caused your bees to leave, some guesses may be seasoned with more experience than others, but they are keyboard guesses. It does not seem like you did anything wrong, but beekeepers like to quibble about the small stuff, much of it is local. If I had to guess, I'd wonder if it had something to do with weather and/or food. You sought advice and took it, that is a good thing. Nothing is 100% with bees.

My free advice: Ask your NUC supplier for one or two, even three, old brood frames (the ones he is about to throw away -you may have to buy them). Spray those frames with Bt. a. to kill wax moths if you can, and place them in one of your empty hives. Put six drops of lemongrass oil or a couple squirts of swarm commander on those frames and wait/hope to catch a swarm. Leave that empty hive with the lemongrass and old comb on your hive stand, near your NUC.


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## Hops Brewster (Jun 17, 2014)

Yes, beekeeping is an expensive hobby ... to start up. You will probably make more mistakes that cost you bees and money. but, eventually, you will learn to keep them alive. Not only alive, but thriving, and they can begin paying for themselves in honey, bees, and wax. You might even see a profit eventually that you (should) report as hobby income on your tax forms. :lpf:

Don't despair. There are hobbies much more expensive than bees, and they usually don't get to the point of being able to pay for themselves. And at least ya ain't chasing women while yo're chasing your bees!


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## CharlieMac (Jun 1, 2017)

Riverderwent said:


> White coroplast used to close off the screened bottom board may let light in. I would use a solid bottom board.


 I will change that before I get anymore bees. Thank you


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## CharlieMac (Jun 1, 2017)

Lburou said:


> CharlieMac, all we can do is guess at what caused your bees to leave, some guesses may be seasoned with more experience than others, but they are keyboard guesses. It does not seem like you did anything wrong, but beekeepers like to quibble about the small stuff, much of it is local. If I had to guess, I'd wonder if it had something to do with weather and/or food. You sought advice and took it, that is a good thing. Nothing is 100% with bees.
> 
> My free advice: Ask your NUC supplier for one or two, even three, old brood frames (the ones he is about to throw away -you may have to buy them). Spray those frames with Bt. a. to kill wax moths if you can, and place them in one of your empty hives. Put six drops of lemongrass oil or a couple squirts of swarm commander on those frames and wait/hope to catch a swarm. Leave that empty hive with the lemongrass and old comb on your hive stand, near your NUC.


Great ideas on catching a swarm and I am praying that I can get a NUC somewhere.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Charliemac, go ahead and get two nucs from Brushy Mountain. You already have deep frames. Although a few frames already drawn out would be a big help. Between your guy in Tappahanock and me, you can probably get a summer nuc going. ( bees and brood, they will make their own queen) My swarm traps only yielded one swarm but location, location, location is what it is all about. 

Call me so we can get together. 804 514 3685

John


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

There are plenty of reputable dealers if you just ask and do your own net search. This is how I got started locally and then 
browse the net looking for local reputable suppliers nearby. Your local CL can help a lot too both for getting nucs and queens. 
Have you look into the CL section yet? When I have extra queens I will list them on CL also. There was a new beekeeper giving up beekeeping in the wrong
urban environment. So I bought all of his used new equipment at a huge discount. You can also ask how long they been in business, etc.
There are plenty of beekeepers within a few hours if you just connect with them. I've bought local frames of bees just to hold the bees together on installation day. They are a bit expensive but well worth the price to have a successful beginning. After that in the last 3 season I don't have to buy anymore bees only mite resistant queens to enhanced my apiary. Yes, definitely ask around for local nucs. Ask to check out their apiary too. Make sure to inspect the nucs first before leaving with a queen inside.
When there is thousand of dollars invested I do not guess during the entire process. I do things to make sure that they all stay. Remember that installing during the early Spring flow and near a summer dearth is two different outcome. What we perceived (out thought) and the reality world (bees world that actually happening) has a big gap in between. How we are able to bridged this gap is the difference between success and failure. What we see out there may have plenty of food but in reality how much the bees can use as their food source? Within that time period from waiting to establishment, if the forager bees reported back that there isn't anything worth foraging locally then they decided to pack up and go. I'm sure they already surveyed the 3 mi. radius during that time.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Charliemac, bees are still swarming in the Richmond area. Set your two hives up as bait hives and put a few drops of lemongrass oil around the entrance and inside on a frame or two. You might still have a chance at catch ing some bees. The sugestion to use old drawn frames is better, but sometimes you just have to use what you have.










These girls hit a plywood box with only new frames, no foundation.


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## Andrew Dewey (Aug 23, 2005)

CharlieMac said:


> I think your right. I am not beaten but just disappointed and hoping for a NUC soon. Really more disappointed than anything. I felt we did everything right.


Ouch. You've had a tough experience, that is for sure. It may help you to realize that keeping bees is a form of agriculture - you can do everything "right" and still fail.

I often wonder what it is that I do differently on my on bees and why others with bees from the same supplier, have such different (and usually negative results) And then I remember the losses I had in my first few years.

You're located way far away from me, and I don't want to presume to tell you how to keep bees there. But I will say find people who do keep bees there and learn as much as you can. The club mentioned earlier is a good place to start - as is Jeff. As for the MB experience, Michael knows bees, that is for certain - but there is something I can't entirely articulate about the natural beekeeping movement that seems off. It is a rough path, especially for new beekeepers.


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## MonkeyMcBean (Mar 1, 2017)

Bee Havin said:


> If you want to drive up to MN I'll give you a Nuc.
> Having bees is like raising rabbits.


How many nucs are you giving away?


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## Beesncherrytrees (May 29, 2016)

Might take you up on that until I get rhe hang of things... ;-)


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## tech.35058 (Jul 29, 2013)

I am sorry for your disappointment. I dont think you did any thing "wrong", but perhaps a frame of open brood would have helped anchor them ... or not. If you are not making your own wooden ware hs a very expensive hobby to start. You can purchase more bees, or "after harvest splits", or current nucs, or set the boxes up as swarm traps.
You might do a lot of things that might or might not help, like using swarm lure, queen juice or propolis tincture to help the box smell like a hive. What. Ever action you choose good luck. ... CE


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## jimbo3 (Jun 7, 2015)

My first hive a couple of years ago ended queenless for whatever reason (it swarmed and I might have messed with a couple of queen cells for whatever newbie reason). I was silly and didn't have two hives to remedy the situation.

Got two packages the next year and they did GREAT! Didn't get any honey, but didn't expect to.

The two hives overwintered great this past winter, and coming into this spring a bear completely demolished them both. I was almost completely demoralized at that point.

I was able to save a few clusters of bees around a few frames laying on the ground and put them all into one hive (not sure at the time if there were zero queens, one, or two).

Installed electric fence around hive, and there were indications that the bear was back - but he didn't get the hive!

Hive had swarm cells last month, so I split it into two. Both hives have activity now(one much more than other). Will inspect probably tomorrow to see what I got.

Moral of the story is to not give up!


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## Beesncherrytrees (May 29, 2016)

Thanks for sharing-your story is encouraging. I had a nuc starve out and then I had a mean hive so I killed the queen. Last week, they had an uncapped queen larva.

I have two hives in another state which are going well. I made splits to stop them from swarming. I made a split from each hive and crossed my fingers. Sure enough, I had taken a queen, from the smaller of the two, by accident and put her into the split. When I came back to the main hive a week later (today)I had 9 capped queen cells between 2 deeps. I had no idea what to do and no extra wood ware or nuc boxes. I ended up bringing one of the queen frames back hanging in a cardboard box and it was a 3 hour drive after dark. It's 65 F and I took the top off of a small queenless split and slipped in the queen cell frame. I have six capped queen cells and they look impossible to cage. I might have a few days before they hatch and maybe less. If I want to save and separate them, what do I do?!


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## eltalia (Jun 12, 2017)

Follow;
That's a *lot* of hard earned to shellout on a new hobby.
Commiserations.
Might I ask if it was your nextdoor neighbour who suppled the colonies?

Cheers.

Bill


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