# Foundation nuc frames to foundationless



## chemist20 (Oct 24, 2010)

I am starting my first couple of hives next spring 2011 and will be purchasing two 5-frame nucs from a local beekeeper.

I am wanting to strictly use the foundationless frames but the nucs will be on the traditional wax foundation style frames. 

How do I go about getting the bees to regress back to the natural way of drawing out there own comb with these foundation frames in the hives starting out?

Do I put these 5-frames in the hives and place the foundationless frames around them? 

Any info would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Grant (Jun 12, 2004)

Easiest way is to alternate old, wax foundation frames with new foundationless frames in the new hive body.

My first year I tried five frame nucs. I left the five old frames together and set two plastic foundation frames on one side, three on the other. The bees never broke from the five frame nuc frames and it was a recipe for swarming. Additionally, I thought more of the plastic foundation than they did!

By alternating new and old, undrawn and drawn frames, you'll get the bees to draw out the foundationless frames and they'll be as straight as an arrow. Then, as time goes by, you can pull out those old frames and replace them with foundationless. But there are a couple of tricks to get all the brood hatched from them.

Grant
Jackson, MO http://maxhoney.homestead.com


.


----------



## chemist20 (Oct 24, 2010)

Thanks for the reply. 

Usually from what I read and hear is with nucs you should place them in the hive body in the order they are in the nuc. But it would be better to alternate one of the nuc frames with a foundationless frame when I start the hives. 

So it would go foundationless, nuc frame, foundationless, etc. across the hive body. 

This would regress the bees back to the natural way? 

Thanks. Seems like it would work well.


----------



## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

You are talking about two processes, converting to foundationless and regressing bees to small cell. Grant gave you a good way to convert to foundationless, but it will not help in your goal to regress to small cell. Placing foundationless frames next to frames with large-cell comb does not guarantee the bees will not simply continue to build the comb size they are accustomed to.

Read some of Dee Lusby's writings here about regressing (retrogressing.)

I've heard her describe her method of shaking all the bees off the existing combs and letting them start over, often several times, until the succeding generations have regressed in cell size.

Wayne


----------



## chemist20 (Oct 24, 2010)

I've emailed Michael Bush and he stated

"Feed the foundationless in one frame at a time. You can put one in the
middle of the brood nest and one on each edge of the brood nest. Any
more in the middle will stress them too much."

"Work those large cell frames to the outside (mark them) and pull them
eventually when you have a hive on the upswing (a flow and a build up of
population) and they are not full of brood."

Seems like a logical approach. I'll read the articles from Ed and Dee Lusby to compare their methods. Thanks for all the help and suggestion.


----------

