# Horizontal Hive Overwintering Fools Challenge 2013/2014



## Matt903 (Apr 8, 2013)

Count me in! The obvious one would be something like: how many horizontal hives do you have going into winter? How many made it through? Something like that maybe? Other suggestions? Good idea Colleen!


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## Colleen O. (Jun 5, 2012)

Matt903 said:


> Count me in! The obvious one would be something like: how many horizontal hives do you have going into winter? How many made it through? Something like that maybe? Other suggestions? Good idea Colleen!


Cool! Yes. Hive Type & Size (long Lang, KTBH, HTBH, hybrid) , Total Colonies, how many are nucs, fed and what, test for mites, treat or not (no debate - just if so and what. You be your own judge of what treating is or go by the description the TF Forum has), etc...


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## Colleen O. (Jun 5, 2012)

*Re: Horizontal Hive Overwintering Fools - Challenge 2013/2014*

Well, it doesn't look like there is much interest yet but I started a spreadsheet for us to use just in case we get more takers. You can find the spreadsheet here: Horizontal Hive Overwintering Fools - Challenge 2013/2014
If you are interested in joining go ahead and put your information in the document. I should have it open to edit. If you have additional categories you think we should add let me know.


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

*Re: Horizontal Hive Overwintering Fools - Challenge 2013/2014*

Perhaps have a column for regular langs as well. Also grouping by plant zone would be helpful.


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## Colleen O. (Jun 5, 2012)

*Re: Horizontal Hive Overwintering Fools - Challenge 2013/2014*

Thanks! I forgot to add plant zone and region! I put the columns in along with one for Conventional Langs and bee type.

Edit:

I picked 12 bars as the cutoff between nuc size and hive but I really don't know where the line should be so if anyone knows please correct me. My hives are currently sized after the Goldstar Hive (which is an adaptation of Phil Chandler's hive design) and with 10 to 11 bars filled in most of the colonies I still consider them nuc size. When I did a crop and chop from a Lang nuc one deep frame made almost two bars worth of comb so a 5 frame nuc would fill probably 9 of my bars. It probably depends on your hive volume but with these type hives that varies greatly from design to design.


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## TheGeneralsBees (Feb 17, 2013)

*Re: Horizontal Hive Overwintering Fools - Challenge 2013/2014*

Sounds like fun. Thank you for starting this Colleen. I have added my hive's details to the sheet.


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## HappyBeeing (Apr 6, 2013)

*Re: Horizontal Hive Overwintering Fools - Challenge 2013/2014*

I did too, although my meager effort isn't part of a "challenge",just data!  and I know I'll be truly blessed if my one hive makes it!!! I felt that I needed to treat and started too late. First the temps were too hot at 105 all the time and then I started too late and it got too cold so I only got 2 of 3 treatments in right. I think a "month of treatment" line might be good info too, as I found a study online once indicating it makes a difference whether a person does end of season treatment in July,August or September. Too late for this year but it actually said July was best because the bees recover from fumigation weakness and live longer over the winter than late treated bees do(despite any reoccurrence of some mites,they tolerate them better and more hives survived overall).......... Anyway,good idea, Colleen O! I'm looking forward to seeing everyones results next Spring!


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## HappyBeeing (Apr 6, 2013)

*Re: Horizontal Hive Overwintering Fools - Challenge 2013/2014*

Oh....another column might be "winter insulation" or not............


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## Colleen O. (Jun 5, 2012)

*Re: Horizontal Hive Overwintering Fools - Challenge 2013/2014*



HappyBeeing said:


> Oh....another column might be "winter insulation" or not............


 I wondered about that too. I added a column on winter prep which would cover insulating. I also added a Warre column, since we added conventional langstroth hives we may as well open it up to Warres too. TheGeneralsBees wanted a column on winter feeding, so I added that too. Thanks!!!

I spent a lot of time today testing for mites so that I could have a baseline for survival and know what was likely a player if they didn't overwinter. The results were very educational/interesting. My main hive, the strongest with the most honey and bees, that I split everything from had a tremendous mite count (11%). It had been requeened but that was the only one of my colonies that basically didn't get any brood break and it had the highest count. I was a bit concerned because I didn't see the queen or any eggs in this one but I had been feeding it heavily and it looked like they were just out of space because they weren't drawing enough comb anymore. The oldest nuc, the only one that has a Minnesota Hygenic daughter queen, had the lowest mite count with just around or under 1%. One of the others was high too but the last two were pretty low.


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## Colleen O. (Jun 5, 2012)

*Re: Horizontal Hive Overwintering Fools - Challenge 2013/2014*

Just an FYI, since I opened up the challenge to Langs and Warres I renamed the spreadsheet to Hive Overwintering Fools - Challenge 2013/2014


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## Life is Good! (Feb 22, 2013)

*Re: Horizontal Hive Overwintering Fools - Challenge 2013/2014*

I'm in! 
I'm curious to see how everyone fares for this upcoming winter season. It's been such a mild fall thus far and the bees have had a great fall flow here. I've still got snapdragons in the planters and had bees on them today (69 degrees!). I'm hesitant to pull out any plants yet - the bees are still active!


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## thebalvenie (Feb 25, 2013)

*Re: Horizontal Hive Overwintering Fools - Challenge 2013/2014*

thanks colleen!

i added my info.....fingers crossed for my girls to have a good winter.

i really think they're a good strong hive already...very docile and chill around me, my two girls and my 3 dogs!!!!


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## coffeedad (Apr 10, 2012)

*Re: Horizontal Hive Overwintering Fools - Challenge 2013/2014*

i'm in and hope the girls make it with the new beek.
dave


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## chr157y (Feb 14, 2013)

*Re: Horizontal Hive Overwintering Fools - Challenge 2013/2014*

Great Idea! I'm in.


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## fieldsofnaturalhoney (Feb 29, 2012)

I want to play! Good luck to all! I just hope I can get another yearly lost to better or match my last. Happy Wintering,,,


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## Colleen O. (Jun 5, 2012)

I took a quick look in the viewing window of my cedar hive that I have split into three nucs. I saw all three clusters, bees moving around staying warm. They are all on the side away from the window so I think I should put some insulation against it. I will miss being able to check them but I want them to have access to all their stores.

Anyone else have an update? Hope they are doing well!


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## chr157y (Feb 14, 2013)

My bees seem to be doing great! Although the cluster has split and I believe they are queenless, they are ALIVE! They have tons of stores left too. I closed off 2 of the 3 3/4" openings, so there is one top entrance with a mouse guard on. I never ended up putting unsulation under the cover. Temperatures have been low for quite some time and we've had lots of snow in SE Pennsylvania. Fingers crossed they make it through the winter.


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## Colleen O. (Jun 5, 2012)

I did put some wool over the bars on four of the five nucs for insulation. The cedar hive got the wool, the one with the biggest cluster but highest mite count didn't get anything.


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## Life is Good! (Feb 22, 2013)

Before our deep freeze (-8 at night) last week, I put that silver insulation around the hive body. So I've blocked off any 'peeking' into the hive...but if it helps keep the bees warmer, it's worth it.

Lots and lots of dead bees on the snow - seems like they're busy clearing out the hive. I've closed off all but one entrance - and that one is now 'plugged' with dead bee bodies. It's warmer today (35 and sunny), so I'll open up another hole, just so the bees can get out if they need to. Not sure if the girls blocked the freezing cold wind with dead sisters to stop the draft, or if they're trying to clean out the hive. Anyone have a clue? 

Always a trick trying to figure out what the bees are up to! They make me think long and hard about what I'm doing and why.....


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## HappyBeeing (Apr 6, 2013)

I have dead bees being pushed out of my hive too;but not many. I clear the entrance enough,once a week, to see if there's been new activity. At least I know there's still Life inside so far !


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## Colleen O. (Jun 5, 2012)

It warmed up enough today that my bees were taking out their dead too but I have upper entrances so they haven't been blocked. The bees sure took the opportunity to get relief from holding it!


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

<<It seems to me that most posters on this forum are new or relatively new to beekeeping (with some very experienced exceptions) and I have been wondering what is behind that. Do they stop following the forum after they learn what they need, do they lose bees and move on to a different hive, do they get discouraged and quit beekeeping, etc...>> 

Colleen I am one of the evil non tbh treating beekeepers on the forum. I would like to take a stab at answering your question posed in October. Long term posters on this forum all are deeply in love with their bees. They may not think of it that way but I think the evidence is clear. They want everyone to love bees so are volunteers to teach an endless stream of newbies who do cheerfully perpetrate horrible slaughter on our beloved bugs. The experienced types who get sick of teaching the same class every time a newbie shows up,many just give up and go silent. Many new beeks do come and go. Many come to save the bees! And find out that it is not all that simple. No one likes to fail and these bees keep a hard school! Good intentions do not keep your colony alive. Sometimes nothing will keep them alive. Then this newbie who is lacking the skills required to maximize his bees chances of making a living and maybe some honey to share, takes on an advanced skill set like the unconventional hives. Like foundationless frames, like trying to breed a mite resistant bee by going treatment free when you have two colonies; and what is 10% survival of two hives? It is easier to kill the mites killing your bees. It is easier to dose bees with tylan than to burn an untreated colony that was proudly treatment free. I guess my point is that I applaud your zeal and enthusiasm, but it would really be easier to learn conventionally before trying to stick that high degree of difficulty landing. The stoning may begin. But I am entering your challenge if allowed. I am down two hives already. One I suspect crashed from mites or possibly went queenless. The other may have died from AFB because I didn't just automatically dose with tylan. I had a bad problem two years ago because I bought used equipment and it was saturated with afb. Thought I had burned it out, but maybe not.


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## Colleen O. (Jun 5, 2012)

Hello Vance! I have seen your posts around and your love of bees and beekeeping comes through loud and clear. Thanks for your response, I take it you think the latter two are most likely. That is reasonable and actually what I suspected when posing the question. I can't speak for anyone else but while still new and inexperienced I share the love of bees. I also admit to not always taking the road most traveled, even though at times it takes a lot of research and effort. I sincerely hope that the cost to my bees for that personality trait is not high. Only time will tell. I am really sorry to hear about your issues with AFB. It has to be horrible to have to burn a hive. I take it you don't recommend buying used equipment?

You are very welcome to join the challenge, just make sure to record your numbers based on the start date of November 1st.


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## chr157y (Feb 14, 2013)

I'm not hear to throw stones, but just state why I started with a top bar hive, and it's not the reasons you listed. I did it out of shear cost savings. I started beekeeping after a few years of very heavy research, reading anything and everything I could get my hands on. Beekeeping is expensive when it comes to start up costs! I'll admit that all the "natural" talk was appealing, but that wasn't my main reason for the top bar hive. I didn't want to invest hundreds of dollars if after I got the bees I realized I was terrified of them. Luckily, I love my bees and have learned a ton over the summer. I was plagued with queen issues all summer and my bees constantly requeened themselves.... then the mites came. Man is it hard to treat a hive for mites with you're using a top bar hive when you are open to treating! I am adding a lang to my teeny tiny apiary this year. I look forward to learning the conventional way of beekeeping and being able to easily take off a super to treat.

That said, we are keeping the top bar hive. The large viewing window has been great in educating family and friends. My little boys (2 & 5) and I love to look in the window. We have seen drones getting dragged out, beautiful natural comb being drawn, and wax moth larva being cleaned out. The bees are truly amazing, and our family and friends have also learned to love the bees. I've taken freshly drawn comb to my kids schools to do lessons on how important bees are and the kids and teachers watch in awe as I show them pictures of our bees and unique hive. I don't know if I'm "saving the bees" with my 1 little backyard hive, but I like to think I'm helping by educating anyone who will listen. Hopefully, I'm also raising 2 future beekeepers.

Here's a picture of my older son with his cousin, sitting comfortably next to our hive. My nephew has severe anxiety, but loves the bees!








Here's another one of the natural comb in our hive. Even if you don't care for top bar hives, you've got to appreciate the beauty of natural comb.








Everyone on this board has been more than helpful this year, and I love that fellow beeks both on beesource and in my local area are always willing to answer any question I have.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

I do not have a single thing against top bar hives! I just maintain they, like warre and foundationless and treatment free, are a more difficult way to go. TBH and foundationless are also need a lot more close supervision to keep combs manageable. I mentor a gentleman who has two TBH's and langstroths and have watched him fight keeping frames straight and having combs break off the top bar. He now builds these geodesic frames. The concept is wonderful. Before I spent time in one, I imagined giving my sister with the bad back a TBH and bees. I envisioned her calmly harvesting a frame of honey as she needed it. Never having to lift off that heavy super and deal with the mass mess that langstroth extraction IS! Carefully manipulating those top bars that I know from experience have a strong desire to break off and result in a crumpled mass of broken drowning bees, brood and honey is required. One single lapse tilting the top bar as you try to see eggs and larvae and it is broodmageddon. IF/when I ever actually run one, my top bars will have three dowel pins sticking down thru the top bar at least 8 inches so when that comb gets tipped a little or it is too hot, some stability is present. 

I guess I am just not Sam Comfort, but TBH's are pretty daunting to me. I imagine I will have at least a long hive this coming summer. Thankyou for not stoning me! Vance


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## chr157y (Feb 14, 2013)

Well, let me be the one to encourage you to try a TBH. I love the idea of a long hive for lang compatability, but a ktbh is truly beautiful. Aside from the difficulty of treating, it has been a joy! And if you live in a state where Hopguard is approved, even treating isn't so hard. 

Also, I thought I'd mention irradiation. Our local group irradiates woodenware that has been contaminated by AFB. I wonder if that is an option where you are. There is a per pallet fee and the members using the service split the cost... I think it's about $175 per pallet. Much cheaper than destroying your equipment.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

irradiation or fumigation is not an option here. If the test comes back negative, there will be a fire. Too bad because it all three year old or newer equipment. My colony count is from mid October when I wrapped and winterized.


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## TheGeneralsBees (Feb 17, 2013)

We had a really warm day here (Northern Virginia) on December 21st so I did an inspection on the smaller hive (late summer split) to make sure they were okay. Everything was good. They have a lot of stores and there don't appear to be any hive beetles (which were a bit of a problem during the late summer). Everyone was happy and flying.


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## Kilted Beekeeper (Apr 8, 2013)

I started last spring with one package of bees and a hastily built top bar hive. I am happy to report that the hive is still alive. we had bees flying around yesterday in 50 degree weather. put some dry sugar in the hive for extra stores, a quick spritz on top to clump it up and keep them from tossing it out. Hopefully we will make it through the winter!


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## Colleen O. (Jun 5, 2012)

Kilted Beekeeper said:


> I started last spring with one package of bees and a hastily built top bar hive. I am happy to report that the hive is still alive. we had bees flying around yesterday in 50 degree weather. put some dry sugar in the hive for extra stores, a quick spritz on top to clump it up and keep them from tossing it out. Hopefully we will make it through the winter!


Sounds good! I looked and didn't see you on the spreadsheet, why don't you join? I know with just the one colony you might hesitate but don't let that put you off. The link is in one of my earlier posts on this thread.


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## Colleen O. (Jun 5, 2012)

TheGeneralsBees said:


> They have a lot of stores and there don't appear to be any hive beetles (which were a bit of a problem during the late summer). Everyone was happy and flying.


Nice! Yeah, I saw a couple SHB trying to hide in the combs when I did my last inspection in early November. I got all of them out that I saw but was very happy the cold helps the situation.


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## Colleen O. (Jun 5, 2012)

I added some deadout reporting columns to the spreadsheet so that people can report losses as they happen. When I added them it looks like participant "3"s hive numbers got messed up. If you are still following this can you please put your hive numbers back in?

Thanks!


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## rhaldridge (Dec 17, 2012)

Vance G said:


> It is easier to kill the mites killing your bees. It is easier to dose bees with tylan than to burn an untreated colony that was proudly treatment free. I guess my point is that I applaud your zeal and enthusiasm, but it would really be easier to learn conventionally before trying to stick that high degree of difficulty landing. .


Vance, I'm sure you're right, but I can tell you the reason I decided to try to go treatment free first.

I think most folks would agree that there are some downsides to treating. It kills the mites, but it also weakens the bees a bit. Treating for bacterial diseases kills beneficial organisms along with the pathogens, and there's been some interesting research showing that the presence of these beneficials helps to control the pathogens via competition.

My thinking was: why not give TF a shot first and see if maybe I'm one of the lucky ones, who through locale or bee genetics or management practices, can keep his bees alive without treatment?

If you start out treating, with the goal of eventually stopping treatment, then when you do stop, you have to deal not only with mites and diseases, but with the lingering ill effects of treatment, which, it seems to me, would be a double whammy and more difficult.

Anyway, my entry: I currently have 7 hives. One is in upstate NY, and I don't really think it will survive. It might not have enough stores for the harsh winter there, and I'm in Florida until April, so it's on its own.

Here in FL I have 6 colonies, three in long hives and 3 strong nucs. As of today, all are alive. They all have at least a frame or two of brood, and when I was in them last week, the best hive has 4 or 5 frames and some capped drone comb. It will be time to make splits soon, so how do I handle my count, if, as I hope, I have more hives than I stated out with in the fall?


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## Colleen O. (Jun 5, 2012)

rhaldridge said:


> I think most folks would agree that there are some downsides to treating. It kills the mites, but it also weakens the bees a bit. Treating for bacterial diseases kills beneficial organisms along with the pathogens, and there's been some interesting research showing that the presence of these beneficials helps to control the pathogens via competition.
> 
> My thinking was: why not give TF a shot first and see if maybe I'm one of the lucky ones, who through locale or bee genetics or management practices, can keep his bees alive without treatment?
> 
> ...


Ray, I have to agree that when I read Mr. Bush's writings on treatment killing the beneficial organisms in the treated hives it resonated with me. That said, I really don't want this to devolve into a treatment versus treatment free debate. All are welcome to join the challenge and I think it is important to see what is working/where and what isn't.

Your Florida climate really does throw a wrench to the challenge but I don't think you are alone in that situation. I think you should report only on the hives you had as of November 1st for the survival/loss stats and I can either add a column for increase or a notes column where you could report it. What do you think?


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## rhaldridge (Dec 17, 2012)

Sounds good. Does your spreadsheet accept negative values?

My strongest hive is also my hottest hive, so I've been thinking about breaking it up and spreading the resources around to put lots of bees in my new nucs.


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## Colleen O. (Jun 5, 2012)

rhaldridge said:


> Sounds good. Does your spreadsheet accept negative values?
> 
> My strongest hive is also my hottest hive, so I've been thinking about breaking it up and spreading the resources around to put lots of bees in my new nucs.


I think negative values mess up the calculations. If you break it down but still have a nuc from it (with the original queen) I would just count it as the original hive and mention it in the notes column that I will add.


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## Colleen O. (Jun 5, 2012)

It is sunny and in the mid-forties today and I am happy to see my bees out flying. Knowing it might hit flying temperatures I got up this morning and moved the four colonies back out of the garage (where they sheltered from the negative temperatures). The bees from the fifth colony, the one I left outside, are out flying too which is encouraging. Tomorrow it may get warm enough to crack the hives and see how they are really doing and help them remove their dead.


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## Life is Good! (Feb 22, 2013)

Here in northern Illinois, the temps are supposedly near mid-30's....supposedly.

I'm getting concerned about one of my two hives. They've not cleaned out any dead for at least 2wks - while other hive has been cleaning. I tried listening with a stethoscope - but couldn't hear anything due to insulation. As the windows are covered by insulation also - I'm not going to take it all off to peek in the hive. Just not worth the risks to the hive. (Besides which 25 chicks are keeping me out of trouble!)

Tomorrow's supposed to get to *gasp* 37 here! Time to trim the grapevines and hydrangea bushes. With the warm-up, we're also slightly flooding. Nothing serious yet - but the rising water makes me remember why I wanted a hive on stilts. Had it been a lang, the bottom boxes would be 3" underwater in their present location. Never dull....


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## Kilted Beekeeper (Apr 8, 2013)

Colleen O. said:


> Sounds good! I looked and didn't see you on the spreadsheet, why don't you join? I know with just the one colony you might hesitate but don't let that put you off. The link is in one of my earlier posts on this thread.


I thought I had back in November. I have not been on the board too much this winter. I entered my info on the spreadsheet.


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## Kilted Beekeeper (Apr 8, 2013)

BTW, we had a cold snap here that brought temps dow to -19 degrees! we had to warm days last week around 48 degrees and I was thrilled to see bees moving about in the hive and tossing out their dead comrades! Still alive in there!


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## Colleen O. (Jun 5, 2012)

Kilted Beekeeper said:


> I thought I had back in November. I have not been on the board too much this winter. I entered my info on the spreadsheet.


Great! I'm sorry if you had to put your information on twice. I have started saving backup versions to insure against data loss.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

Just a note to others. If you actually make gains you can enter them in the losses file with a - sign in front of them they appear as additions to your total that way and your percentage of survival will go above 100%. I increased my apiary by two hives today and had to figure out how to record it.


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## Colleen O. (Jun 5, 2012)

Daniel, I did put a column in for increase but set it up to not play into the overwintered total. If everyone wants it to factor in I can change the formulas.


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## bevy's honeybees (Apr 21, 2011)

Oh good I was wondering about that. I have 2 new nuk with the possiblity of a 3rd. I wanted to enter them on spreadsheet. Thanks.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

Colleen, I don't think the results can be considered all that accurate if it only records losses. Adding hives is part of beekeeping. Considering I could be adding quite a few hives in March I think the idea that you will end with far more hives than you started is very real. Sort of gives a false impression of what can be done if only losses count.


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## Colleen O. (Jun 5, 2012)

Daniel Y said:


> Colleen, I don't think the results can be considered all that accurate if it only records losses. Adding hives is part of beekeeping. Considering I could be adding quite a few hives in March I think the idea that you will end with far more hives than you started is very real. Sort of gives a false impression of what can be done if only losses count.


Okay, that sounds reasonable as long as the additions are from splits or swarms from your existing colonies (as of November 1st) and not elsewhere. I'll get in and update the spreadsheet and transfer the numbers sometime this weekend.

Just an FYI for those who follow this thread and not the one on the Bee forum, when we start reporting final results I plan to report them there so I can do it just once.

I hope everyone's bees are doing well!


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

I thought it was about winter losses? Why not a three year average and a mulligan if you feel you need one to save face.


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## Colleen O. (Jun 5, 2012)

Vance G said:


> I thought it was about winter losses? Why not a three year average and a mulligan if you feel you need one to save face.


LOL!

I interpreted the request to be more that beekeepers in the more temperate zones may have to make splits because their bees aren't really shutting down for winter. I really didn't know where to draw the line for temperature zones and didn't want to be exclusive. Certainly Maine has a different winter than we have in Saint Louis. Should I take the question to the bee forum and see what the consensus is?


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## Colleen O. (Jun 5, 2012)

I posted a poll on the bee forum as to the question of whether increase should be counted into the overwintering challenge totals. Be sure to go over there and vote so your opinion can be counted! Poll is open for four days.


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## Colleen O. (Jun 5, 2012)

Saw grayish pollen coming in on one of my two remaining colonies today (silver maple?). The other was bringing in some (not much) but it was bright orange. I could also tell by the fat bellies coming in/skinny going out that they were bringing in nectar too. I also saw scouts out flying so hopefully they will find what they need.

I'm starting to believe they made it. Not quite doing a happy dance yet but I am hopeful!


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

In my area pollen starts of a whitish or light grey goes to yellow and then to orange. I have watched it for two years now. Last year when orange showed up swarming soon followed. Yesterday I saw orange for the first time this year. I see Cherry and Plumb trees in full bloom. I assume there is some nectar available and drones are in production. We saw drones in at least one hive last Saturday. Drone cells are in everything.


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## Sticky Bear (Mar 15, 2012)

Of the two 22 frame Long hives I experimented with this last bee season I can safely admit both survived our normal bitter cold and beat my losses from standard Lang equipment. One has come through bursting at the seams with bees and the other I thought had succumb has risen from the dead and is at 5 frame Nuc strength. Like Daniel, my area pollen starts out a whitish or light grey goes to light yellow and then to orange, also there is some nectar available and drones are in production.


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## HappyBeeing (Apr 6, 2013)

Zone 7-8 here Early flowers blooming now;no fruit trees yet....having 60 degree days but nights still in the 30s.

I can relate to "risen from the dead" !All winter I was "sure" my small cluster was on the brink of dying off and every time they pulled through. My bees ....like one fist size in January ....have tripled or more the last month and have larvae they are feeding now.They are out collecting several colors of pollen and sound almost as "happy" as last summer when the sun is out. I am truly amazed. I harvested 7 lbs total of honey from partial combs in the back of my Golden Mean TB and moved better combs up by the cluster. They haven't touched syrup yet ( offered because I "robbed" the back half of the 90% empty hive) and are currently content "doing their thing".


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## dixieswife (Apr 15, 2013)

Our hive didn't make it. We had our suspicions in late fall that the queen was gone and as far as we can tell. We're not sure why; there WAS a queen who had been laying and a lot of bees and lots and lots of capped honey. We even carefully rearranged the honey so that they could easily move to it before we closed things up for winter. 

When we looked in late Feb, just a handful of bees were left and they were dead and not on honey stores. There was one fairly cold snap this winter so I guess they froze before they could move but without a queen they were doomed anyway. There was a smattering of capped drones as well along with nectar and pollen. Other than mold that had formed on the dead bees, everything looks fine. We didn't find mites on the bottom board.

We're not sure whether to take some of the honey (we're talking about 16 mostly full combs worth) or to just use it to help out replacement bees.


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## TheGeneralsBees (Feb 17, 2013)

Dixieswife, sorry to hear they didn't make it. Were the bees clustered together or were there patches of bees here and there? If they weren't all in one group that would be further confirmation that the queen was gone as her phermones are needed to hold them together and organize the group.


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## dixieswife (Apr 15, 2013)

They were "mostly" together. Maybe two smallish groups with a smattering of singles here. I don't think that even together, they would have been enough to live through the cold snap. The amount that were left in the hive (dead) was much much MUCH smaller than what we'd seen in there in the fall.

The hive had been booming with bees, and a laying queen in the fall. During our last few inspections, we noticed there were no eggs being laid (still tons of bees) and were a little suspicious, but we knew that sometimes the queen shut down for a bit before winter. We tried not to fuss -- every time we'd worried about queens in this hive, they'd taken care of matters without any help from us. We're not great at spotting queens, but we looked and looked and looked for her, then closed up the hive for winter and hoped for the best. (But kinda expected this)

We're gonna try to give it another shot this spring and start out with more than one hive. We've got the (now empty) TBH and a Lang. Just have to get some bees!


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## Colleen O. (Jun 5, 2012)

Happy April 1st! Today is the day to get your reporting completed. I added a spot to put an X in to show you have done that. As a reminder, I will post the "winners" in the thread on the bee forum. Thanks again to all who participated.

I have been working on a summer version of this called "Harvest Bee Fun - Bees, Products, & Services". I will try to post a link for it in a new thread tonight. I plan to leave the overwinter totals and configuration information on it from the participants who complete their reporting by then. If you have completed reporting but don't wish to be automatically included just let me know and I will take you off.


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## thebalvenie (Feb 25, 2013)

i updated.

thanks again Colleen o


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