# We need a Warre "the People's Hive" Forum



## Zonker

Installed bees in my first Warre Hive yesterday and went over to check on them this morning. Abbe Warre claimed that since the bees were in a smaller space they got started earlier in the morning. One morning doesn't really qualify as good scientific evidence, but the Warre hive was buzzing while a strong Lang, and three strong TBH's were completely dormant.


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## beez2010

Imagine that...

The bees in the ventilated, uninsulated hives need everyone to stay in the hive and keep the brood warm until the day heats up up more. The Warre is already warm, so many bees can begin to forage early.

Pretty cool, huh?

Chris Harvey--Teakwood Organics

www.thewarrestore.com


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## Bush_84

Made 2 kTBHs and 2 Warre hives this winter/spring. Will be populating 1 warre and 1 TBH. Otherwise hoping for swarms. But this kind of reading excites me, especially how much I read about how good Warres are in cold climates.


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## gjd

How do new packages in a single-deep Langstroth compare with an established hive? I've got a new Kenya TBH that is much colder inside than an adjacent Langstroth-- 10 F on average, I'd estimate), and from the first morning has been active earlier, later and in light rain while the Langstroth has been completely quiet. I assumed they were more industrious because of their precarious situation, needing to get comb built and brood going.
Greg


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## Holmes

Zonker, I couldn't agree more, there should be a Warre Forum. I believe the Warre hive is considered a TBH but nonetheless, it would be nice to have it separate.

It's great to hear that the colony in the Warre is doing well. This will be my first year beekeeping. I decided to go with a Warre hive after a lot of reading and research. I'm getting my bees from Betterbee, I live just 15 minutes from them, and so far they've been delayed 3 times due to the weather. I'm suppose to pick them up next weekend and I can't wait. I hope you have a great and successful summer!


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## waynesgarden

beez2010 said:


> Imagine that...
> 
> The bees in the ventilated, uninsulated hives need everyone to stay in the hive and keep the brood warm until the day heats up up more. The Warre is already warm, so many bees can begin to forage early.


Huh?? Were the bees from a package? Unless the hive was populated from frames from another hive yesterday, how much brood would the Warre hive have the day after installing that would result in any meaningful comparison? If the strong TBH and Langs had bees inside keeping brood warm, it would be because they actually had brood to keep warm. Reminds me of how long it took to start my day when my daughters were small.

On the other hand, I have some Lang hives that are up and out long before their more laid-back next-door neighbors in identical hives.

Wayne

Wayne


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## Michael Bush

When I have no drawn comb I start packages in five frame medium nucs. When I have drawn comb I start them in eight frame medium boxes which are half the size of the ten frame deep. They get started much faster. It takes heat to build comb and raise brood.


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## Oldtimer

When the package just got dumped in yesterday, they will be very active the next morning and the next few days, sorting themselves out, whatever kind of hive they are in.


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## Benthic

Holmes said:


> Zonker, I couldn't agree more, there should be a Warre Forum. I believe the Warre hive is considered a TBH but nonetheless, it would be nice to have it separate.
> 
> <snip>


Here's a third vote for a Warre specific forum. I find that when people use the term "Top Bar Hive" they are most often referring to a horizontal TBH, like the Kenyan. Since the Warre is a vertical TBH it seems (from what I read) that it would be managed much differently. 

Personally, I'm rather interested in Warre hives (albeit, modified for the use of frames since the law requires it here) and it would be nice to be able to find the information on them all put together in one forum.

Brian


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## The Honey Girl's Boy

I second the motion to have a Warre hive beekeeping forum. I suggested it to the moderator a while back and, (I am trying to be kind here) received what appeared to be a rather curt reply telling me there was already a Top Bar forum. An excellent site for good Warre information is this group. 
http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/warrebeekeeping

Ernie


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## sqkcrk

Warre Hive Forum, okay by me.
"The Peoples Hive"? Insulting to all others, as if those who use something else aren't "people" or "the people" too.


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## The Honey Girl's Boy

sqkcrk said:


> "The Peoples Hive"? Insulting to all others, as if those who use something else aren't "people" or "the people" too.


Interesting observation, I keep bees in Langstroths, Top Bars, Warres and a couple of proto types I built never once thought of being offended by the name of any hive. Emile explained the reason for the name in his book.


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## Bush_84

To me personally it's the people's hive because it has personally allowed me to get into beekeeping. I had looked into beekeeping about a year ago, but crapped my pants at the cost. This winter I was able to build 2 KTBHs and 2 Warre hives. I got into beekeeping for the cost of making a few batches of mead! I have 2 hives running now and will see if I catch a swarm. So to me it's the people's hive because it is something that many can build themselves and get into beekeeping without having a ton of extra cash on hand, especially for the hobby beekeeper. Those who are in it for cash are a different breed and would make more cash from a Lang. Those who are like me and want a couple hives, but don't want a business will do better to make their own hive. Just my POV.


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## Oldtimer

Yes there is a point about the use of the title "The Peoples Hive", which is rather grandiose.

Anything carrying the title "The Peoples xxx", implies it is the one of choice, the popular one, the one most people use.

But using that criterion, Langstroth, would be the undisputed "peoples hive"

Warré, in his book, may have some explanation why he believes his design is the peoples hive. But to me, the hive people actually use, must be the peoples hive. And that's the Langstroth design.

Having said all that, I'm in no way offended by the use of the title in regard to a particular design, just think it's a bit ostentatious. However, Warré hive numbers will probably increase, because they are currently such a tiny percentage of the total number of hives that they can only really go up. 

Warré hives are probably a better design from the bees point of view, than the less natural KTBH, and there might be a move away from standard TBH's and towards Warré hives over the next few years. But there are pros and cons both ways. The Warré is more natural and tuned in to the type of shape the bees can do best in, but it in it's pure form, cannot be inspected. And given enough Warrés and enough time, this issue will one day come back to bite. The TBH though allows ready inspection and more intricate hive management, and probably more "hands on" for the beekeeper. But bees find it harder to work out to the long ends and are more inclined to swarm than store a big honey crop.

The Warré was also designed in a certain part of France, before varroa mites and other afflictions, and management techniques are based on that area. But already, US based Warré devotees are bringing in improved management methods suited variously, to specific local conditions, and design changes which can even include moveable frames.


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## Bush_84

All very valid points. I guess it really depends on how you look at it. I think that the half frames that some build are the answer to the inspection issue, but at the same time complicates the simplicity of the design.


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## sqkcrk

W/out removable and inspectable brood combs, in most States, such a hive is Illegal. In case you didn't know. Which may not matter to some, I guess.

Frames are relatively inexpensive and one can build their own Langstroth type boxes out of scrap lumber. Or, in the case of Tara (I believe) a milk crate and some styrofoam board. Imagination is required, that's all.

Warre away tho. It's cool. It's all good.


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## Zonker

You all have a totally different take on the "the people's hive" title. I assumed it was a vaguely communist thing. The hive of the downtrodden and oppressed masses. Also I wonder how inspectable a hive needs to be to be considered legal. You can lift the box off and see whats going on, so its certainly more inspectable than a skep. I wonder if there is specific frame by frame language in the law. And ... those laws were to stop the spread of decease but the deceases have already spread everywhere, so the laws didn't really seem to work, so .... etc.

and sqkcrk is right about building langs. I have built all my langs entirely from scrap (the only langs in VA with hand cut dovetail joinery), but making frames is some pretty tedious wood working and there is still the foundation, wiring, the cap cutting knife, the centrifuge, ect. I think the Comrade Warre hive will produce cheaper honey for me.


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## sqkcrk

I first learned of the Laws about removable frames while working at Colonial Williamsburg, in Wmsbg, VA. I no longer have thew VA Handbook of Beekeeping which contained a Chapter on VA Bee Laws, but it stated that removable frames are required for the inspection for AFB and other brood diseases. So, skeps are forbidden. And any other hive, like Log Gums, are too. Warres? I don't know. ask your State Apiculturalist. Or, maybe, don't.


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## Zonker

I'm always amazed at how often I miss the obvious and sqkcrk you're right, getting the real info is an obvious first step. So I checked out the VA code and the only requirement is "§ 3.2-4410. Measures to eradicate and control bee diseases; appeal. A. The State Apiarist shall examine or inspect the bees in the Commonwealth whenever they are suspected of being infected with bee diseases and, on request, shall inspect bees to be sold or to be transported interstate." and in the administrative code a declaration that there are suppose to be regulations but none have been developed. So I'm thinking that I could do whatever I want as long I'm ok with the hive being destroyed anytime the apiarist suspects I have diseases in them.


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## Oldtimer

Zonker said:


> I have built all my langs entirely from scrap (the only langs in VA with hand cut dovetail joinery), but making frames is some pretty tedious wood working and there is still the foundation, wiring, the cap cutting knife, the centrifuge, ect.


I might be NEARLY able to top that!

My very first frames were built by hand when I was a schoolboy, in the school woodwork shop. That was before I had any bees and had never seen a frame, just took the design from a book. The woodwork teacher was NOT impressed and would not even grade it, told me no more beehive stuff, he wanted something "useful" built.

I actually wish I still had that first hive, it would be a curiousity now, a completely handcrafted 4 frame hive, each frame slightly different, and approaching 50 years old.


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## Michael Bush

>Also I wonder how inspectable a hive needs to be to be considered legal. 

It may or may not specify in the law, depending on the state, but the interpretation has consistently been that you can inspect every surface of every comb for disease, not just a glance at the bottoms of the combs.


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## Beeophyte

Holmes said:


> Zonker, I couldn't agree more, there should be a Warre Forum. I believe the Warre hive is considered a TBH but nonetheless, it would be nice to have it separate.
> 
> It's great to hear that the colony in the Warre is doing well. This will be my first year beekeeping. I decided to go with a Warre hive after a lot of reading and research. I'm getting my bees from Betterbee, I live just 15 minutes from them, and so far they've been delayed 3 times due to the weather. I'm suppose to pick them up next weekend and I can't wait. I hope you have a great and successful summer!


There is a Warré Forum now: http://warreforum.forumotion.com/


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## sqkcrk

Why isn't the most popular hive considered "The Peoples Hive"?


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## Box

In Warrés childhood most peoble kept a few skeps for their own honey consumption and for sweetning 
they let the bees do their thing and collected swarms and killed the production hives in the fall, the skeps
were made from materials nature have in abundance and free - even the poorest family could keep them
and harvest the healty gold.
After the introduction of the framed hive things got evermore expensive and most peoble didnt have the knowlege
to keep the bees in that manor so both bees and beekeepers were declining at the time warré made his new 
hive based on the princip of the skep but without the need of killing the bees ,and because it is designed to be
build by anyone able to use a hammer and saw of wast materiel one have laying around anyhow, he hoped
all again could keep bees for the benefit of both species and in the battle against sugar ,witch he saw as unhealty (what about that?)
This is the reason warré named the hive "the peobles hive" not because it was the most popular, but because it could be
build and kept and harvested withtout much knowledge.
Well thats how i understod the text .

against the hive i think the fact that his work was publised in french. during the war it would have been very popular in the rest of europe if they
had been able to read his book.


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## mama3277

I would love to see a warre forum...I can't count how many hours that I have sifted through the tbh forum looking for anything that would apply to me. I know this is an older post but I had to put my two cents in especially for those like myself that read constantly but don't post. Thanks!


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## Beethinking

mama3277,

There is now a Warre forum! The post was moved to it! 

Best,
Matt


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