# Stratiolaelaps - A bug to Fight Varroa?



## shinbone

Applied Bio-nomics' website characterizes Stratiolaelaps scimitus as "_an accomplished generalist soil predatory mite _. . . " http://www.appliedbio-nomics.com/products/stratiolaelaps

I must be missing something - How does a predatory bug that lives and feeds in the soil help with Varroa? 

Maybe it is supposed to help with small hive beetle?


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## Vance G

It is being tested on mites. I am interested in following this one. I would guess these little bug to bite bigger bugs comes in some carrier material and I can see that being sprinkled on clustered bees. I doubt if phoretic mites would suffer much from it.


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## ubernerd

Vance G said:


> It is being tested on mites. I am interested in following this one. I would guess these little bug to bite bigger bugs comes in some carrier material and I can see that being sprinkled on clustered bees. I doubt if phoretic mites would suffer much from it.


True, but depending on life-span and persistance, it might be able to hang around long enough to wait for the phoretic mites to hatch and then ambush them. So, *perhaps* one treatment could catch multiple generations?

I'll be *really* curious to see where this one goes....


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## JRG13

you could realease it in the hive and it would run around hopefully predating varroa and not eggs/young larvae.


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## Vance G

Yes, that is the rub JRG. The critter is described as opportunistic and lots of opportunity in a brood nest without mites. That being said, the anecdotal information from canadian experiementers does not state brood predation as a concern. No real info yet however. I will want to wait and watch on this one.


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## shinbone

I still don't get how a bug that lives in/on the soil eating soft-bodied larvae is supposed to live in a bee hive and eat hard-bodied adult varroa mites off of moving bees. Both the two enivronments and the two food sources are substantially different from one another.

Regardless, I hope it works. We are in badly need of any and everything that combats varroa mites without hurting the bees.


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## Goat Man

Wow!


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## shinbone

A brief mention of an experiment in the U.K. using Stratiolaelaps to control varroa is linked below. Pretty thin on details except to say the beekeeper doing the test claims reductions in varroa loads which she attributed to putting Stratiolaelaps mites into the hives. This is all I could find when doing a Google search on the subject.

http://chrissladesbeeblog.wordpress.com/2013/02/17/how-are-the-mitey-fallen/


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## billabell

Another email forwarded to me by Brian Spencer at Applied Bio-nomics from George Scott At SRI Lab who is conducting trials in Canada.
It looks promising. Perhaps someone knows Stacy Hickman the entomologist at the University of VT. I am wondering why a chemical company would be funding this. 

> From: "SRI Inc" <[email protected]>
> Date: 21 February, 2013 8:21:08 AM PST
> To: "Brian Spencer" <[email protected]>
> Cc: "Sandy Mitchell" <[email protected]>, "Cynthia Scott-Dupree" <[email protected]>, "Marg kaladopolus" <[email protected]>
> Subject: [Applied Bio-nomics contact] Varroa Mites and L3K Apiary trials
>
> HI Brian,
> Thanks for taking the precaution.
> I made a full presentation with noted etymologist Stacey Hickman, at the Niagara Beekeepers meeting in Feb. She was a big hit !!
> We had a professional video team record the session. I will provide you with the video once we complete the edit. This information update session was well received.
> 
> There is no doubt that the varroa populations are seriously reduced by the HAM Ss. There is no doubt that the bio treatments improved bee numbers and hive hygiene. Also our highest honey producer was a bio treated hive. We are starting to look at some additional issues like drone impact, queen cell, swarming and hive replication activity, and reduction of other negative hive issues including bacteria and fungal issues.
> 
> The current trials are in their second year. We are looking at side effects during the over wintering phase. Last year we had a very non typical warm winter, but all of the colonies treated with HAM Ss overwintered very well. This winter is typical.
> 
> During a warm spell in Jan. 2013, we opened one hive for sampling. The bees were in very good order. Hygiene was excellent. The seals were good and the bee ball was strong. Food supplies were adequate. We predict a successful overwintering. All hives are currently showing normal healthy overwintering behaviour. Most importantly they are all alive.
> 
> We have been focusing on bio control dosage, frequency and timing.
> In 2013 we intend to reduce the dosage from 250 ml to 150 ml. In our opinion 250 ml is too much for a two super colony. 250 ml would be for the 3 large super brood colonies only.
> 
> For frequency, we intend to inoculate once in the spring. The HAM Ss appears to be breeding in the hive. In our strongest hives , when we went to inoculate in the fall, we found two issues:
> 
> 1. The HAM Ss were still present from the spring inoculation
> 2. Varroa numbers were very low going into the winter season.
> 
> We believe they, HAM Ss, are breeding up to the level of available varroa. One test hive did not get a fall inoculation and it appears to be progressing very healthily.
> We will know more as these hives come out of the winter.
> 
> So for these questions of dosage, frequency and timing we are looking at the following:
> 
> 1. DOSAGE -150 ml
> 
> 2. TIMING - earlier inoculation than as prescribed by the provincial apiarist for chemical treatments ( about 1 to 2 weeks ) When the varroa appear on our sticky boards at 5 rather than 10, we will bio control inoculate. 
> 
> 3. FREQUENCY - 1/2 of our colonies will only get one spring treatment. The other 1/2 will get inoculations in the spring and fall. We will then observe the activity and survival rates as these colonies over winter for the third year.
> 
> After three overwintering successes we will feel very comfortable about publishing. 
> 
> In a separate beeyard we are going to inoculate a central feeding hive for varroa infected 5 colonies. As the bees emerge in early spring they will enter the feeding hive. In order to get to the feed they must pass through a full framed 9 frame super, coated with HAM Ss. We are looking to see if the bees transport the HAM Ss back to the hives as hitch hikers. Certainly they transport varroa by this hitch hiker method, so we will have a look. This has the potential to be a very inexpensive solution for the big commercial beekeepers.
> 
> It may be that the HAM Ss leave the hive to go to ground for the winter and we doubt that they will migrate up to the hive once they leave, so re-inoculation is important. We will test for over wintering.
> 
> The single biggest hurdle to this program may be the small hive beetle. This destructive bee killer is 40 kM south of us, 120 Km upwind (west ) and 20 kM north of our main beeyard. I have been in touch with the nearest bee keepers and we will not be importing any bees within 2 Km of our main test area. The small hive beetle however can fly 40 Km, so it is only a matter of time.
> 
> It is our hope that the distinctly different behaviour ( rapid movement of adults and larva ) of the SHB will attract the feeding impulse of the HAM Ss. If there is any contact you have to introduce the SHB adults and larva to the HAM Ss under microscopic lab conditions, we would like to see if they feed and their feeding behaviour. Do you have any beekeeper friends in Hawaii? Let me know as this would solve another piece of the puzzle and allow us some form of protection and SHB damage prevention.
> 
> Several other beekeepers are going to be joining this trial as they see the potential for solving many of the problems with chemical resistance and other chemical related negatives. 
> 
> At this point I do issue a caution as we do not know all of the side effects nor have we quantified all of the negatives or shortfalls of our potential bio control solution. On the other hand, there also may be many more positives for honey bees. There may be behavioural changes within the hive stimulated by the large presence of the HAM Ss. The bees may be using the HAM Ss like a tool as observed by the keepers of spiders and crabs. This is a potentially powerful aspect of your bio control and a variable we are trying to define for better understanding of all the mechanisms at work here.
> 
> I have a meeting tonight with our primary funding group. SRI Petro Chemicals Inc has provided much of the funding in the past and they have notified me that they will only cover 50% of our go forward work on honey bees and the major bio diversity initiative we have been working on for the past 7 years. Keep your fingers crossed in hope for our success tonight.
> 
> Cheers
> G
>


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## Kieck

I'd like to see an experiment with a negative control ("no _Stratiolaelaps_") to see if/how much effect these mites have on _Varroa_. Maybe that's included, but no mention made it into the e-mail of the difference between treated and untreated.


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## Goat Man

Could it really end up being this easy??
We will all be watching this one!


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## shinbone

Interesting!

I wonder how the predatory mites are introduced into the hive . . . ?


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## billabell

Kieck said:


> I'd like to see an experiment with a negative control ("no _Stratiolaelaps_") to see if/how much effect these mites have on _Varroa_. Maybe that's included, but no mention made it into the e-mail of the difference between treated and untreated.


Apparently they were the control. See email below.
Brian

4:15 PM (46 minutes ago)

to me
Yes, but, they were chemically treated.
What got this thing going was our Ss was an alternate "control" for their chemical treatment.
I'm fairly certain that there were also untreated hives.

Brian Spencer


On 2013-02-21, at 11:11 AM, Bill Abell <[email protected]> wrote:

> Brian,
> Do you know if there were any negative control hives in the trials for comparison?
> Bill
>


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## shinbone

Apparently, Stratiolaelaps scimitus is widley available and easy to buy. Beekeepers like to try new things, especially if it might safely reduce varroa numbers. If beekeepers knew the best methodology for introducing Stratiolaelaps into a hive, lots of people would begin experimenting, and it would quickly become clear whether Stratiolaelaps scimitus reduces varroa numbers. 

Anyone know how the experimenters reported above introduce Stratiolaelaps scimitus into a hive? Just sprinkle Ss onto the bees between the frames like dusting with powder suger? Place an open jar of Ss inside the hive and let the little predators crawl out? Pile a mound of soil seeded with Ss into the corner of the brood box? Other ways?


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## billabell

shinbone said:


> Interesting!
> 
> I wonder how the predatory mites are introduced into the hive . . . ?


They come in a 1 liter canister and are shaken in.


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## shinbone

billabell - Perfect. Thanks.


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## Gord

There was an old lady who swallowed a fly...

Australia has had a couple of spectacular failures with introducing predators.
I'm going to let a couple of years experience build up before I decide.


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## Bush_84

billabell said:


> They come in a 1 liter canister and are shaken in.


From what I have read they do in fact come in one liter containers, but it is not one full liter of these bugs. It is filled of peat moss like stuff for them to feed on. Each liter contains about 10k of these bugs. The above information counts them in ml. I suspect this is 150 or 259 ml of just the bugs. No filler. So what we would need to know is about how many bugs you approximately per 50 ml and how do you separate the bugs from the peat moss? Once we get that info it should be pretty easy to replicate.

Another thing I read is that they inhabit the soil. I remember that some tbh guys were using wood chips and debris in the bottom of their hives. Is it maybe plausible that we should run a sump under the brood nest to allow them to sustain a population? I can only imagine how that would rot without some special treatment.


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## JRG13

I think they come packed in vermiculite from some suppliers as well. Funny, my brother and I were talking about another predator and doing this just last week, using pseudo scorpions.


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## Goat Man

Okay, so say they eat all the varroa out of the hive. That is a good thing.
BUT, after all the mites are gone what happens next? Do they then turn on the
bee larvae and just keep eating? Do they go after the varroa adults or larvae? If
larvae, guess where they all are? Many questions but I am hopeful for any help
with varroa..


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## Bush_84

Good questions. The initial reports indicate that they may regulate their population according to their prey as noted on the previous page. They also apparently feed on algae and plant debris when nothing else is available.


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## Ian

they feast on mites, and then turn their tastes towards algee and plant debris ? Are they certain they dont turn to bee larvae as some point,


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## Bush_84

Ian said:


> they feast on mites, and then turn their tastes towards algee and plant debris ? Are they certain they dont turn to bee larvae as some point,


I would suspect they are not...that is why they are doing studies. However the initial reports certainly seem reassuring. Strong hives with low varroa populations. One could come to one of two conclusions. Either they do not eat eggs or they do is such small quantities that it does not effect the bees population.


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## bevy's honeybees

Gord said:


> There was an old lady who swallowed a fly...
> 
> Australia has had a couple of spectacular failures with introducing predators.
> I'm going to let a couple of years experience build up before I decide.


I agree. First thing I thought of was our lovely Love Bugs here in Florida. They were introduced, and something went wrong, to take care of the mosquito problem. Now they are not only a terrible mess during their season, but they also ruin our saw palmetto nectar run. They land on the palmetto bloom and leave behind some kind of nasty that honey bees do not like and will not collect nectar once Love Bug has been there. My first spring with bees was a strong year for love bugs and no palmetto honey that year. Last year wasn't so great either.


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## BMartin

billabell said:


> They come in a 1 liter canister and are shaken in.


We use Strateolaelaps aka Hypoaspis and other predatory mites in greenhouse horticulture. Using biocontrols has reduced our pesticide application by 80%. We buy Stratiolaelaps in 1 liter canisters, 25k ct for $20 and change plus shipping and the shipping can cost as much as the mites as the shipment has to go over night. From what I understand the application rate is between 250ml at the present with testing down to 50ml which would be 6250 mite down to 1250 per application. That’s 4 to 20 treatment per container. Important in using biocontrols is to be preemptive, that is, get the good guys in before the bad guys have a chance to become a problem. A little different way of thinking about pest control rather than seeing them and killing them. Although I'm not sure how it is introduced I'd probably measure out of the canister the desired mls and place it above the cluster on a piece of newspaper where the mite can establish themselves on the frames. Sprinkling on the top bars some would fall through on to the bottom board or if SBB boards are used you’d would lose some it out of the hive. I’m going to try it. Seem easy enough and it’s something that I’m always bringing in.


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## c10250

How about putting a little moss under the SBB to give them something to eat when all the varroa are gone??


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## Kieck

> They were introduced, and something went wrong, to take care of the mosquito problem. -bevy's honeybees


This is off topic, but, first off, "love bugs" are flies. They were found indigenous to southern Texas and Louisiana and down into Mexico when European settlers first documented them, then seem to have expanded their range on their own to the north and east, and spreading into Florida from there. The larvae live in leaf litter and detritus on the soil surface; mosquito larvae are aquatic. The adult "love bugs" feed on nectar, and their larvae feed on decaying plant material (they are not predatory).



> They land on the palmetto bloom and leave behind some kind of nasty that honey bees do not like and will not collect nectar once Love Bug has been there. -bevy's honeybees


Also off topic, but I find this fascinating. I don't recall ever hearing this sort of thing before. The flies are reported to be distasteful to potential predators. Maybe that's related to this sort of repellent effect that lingers behind them?



> Seem easy enough and it’s something that I’m always bringing in. -BMartin


I got to wondering if before I got to the post above just how common these mites are in the soil and potentially wandering into beehives on their own. Many of the generalist predators wander windily searching for food.

The question remains what kind of effect putting large numbers of them into a hive would have on the hive. It's worth exploring, I think.


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## JohnBeeMan

if only the secondary food source were SHBs it could become a silver bullet.


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## JRG13

I would think there might be a balance, say if you dumped the whole container in there might be so many mites they may cause some damage but in lower numbers they're more predatory then opportunistic.


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## DC Bees

Is it possible that some of the beekeepers that do not treat and are successful at keeping there hives alive may have some beneficial microbes in there hives, which are helping to control the varoa mites?


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## billabell

BMartin said:


> We use Strateolaelaps aka Hypoaspis and other predatory mites in greenhouse horticulture. Using biocontrols has reduced our pesticide application by 80%. We buy Stratiolaelaps in 1 liter canisters, 25k ct for $20 and change plus shipping and the shipping can cost as much as the mites as the shipment has to go over night. From what I understand the application rate is between 250ml at the present with testing down to 50ml which would be 6250 mite down to 1250 per application. That’s 4 to 20 treatment per container.


How do you store them? Do they have a shelf life?


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## BMartin

billabell said:


> How do you store them? Do they have a shelf life?


Best to use them as soon as you get them although if we are pressed for time we keep them in the refrigerator over night and then get them out the next morning. One question I have is what’s the biology behind it, as in what stage does the Stratiolaelaps consume the varroa and is there a reproductive stage in the hive. My understanding and it may be incorrect is that they feed on juvenile stages of the target pest of which the varroa juveniles are in the capped brood cell. Does it enter the cell with the female mite? We use them as a soil predator and you never find them up on the plant always running around on the surface or beneath the surface. It’s also a persistent bio.


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## Bush_84

BMartin said:


> Best to use them as soon as you get them although if we are pressed for time we keep them in the refrigerator over night and then get them out the next morning. One question I have is what’s the biology behind it, as in what stage does the Stratiolaelaps consume the varroa and is there a reproductive stage in the hive. My understanding and it may be incorrect is that they feed on juvenile stages of the target pest of which the varroa juveniles are in the capped brood cell. Does it enter the cell with the female mite? We use them as a soil predator and you never find them up on the plant always running around on the surface or beneath the surface. It’s also a persistent bio.


That is what I am wondering. If I were a betting man I'd bet that they do their thing in capped brood. Seems to make logical sense. No use trying to chase varroa in the open when you could be locked in a room with them. I also wonder how they establish a breeding population. The above emails seem to indicate that most have established a breeding population. But they are supposed to live in the soil not a hive. I wonder if they have ever used them in an observation hive. Maybe they are to small to even observe...I don't know. I was reading that they are effective for spider mites. Isn't that how hopguard was discovered?


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## JRG13

They ship with another mite inside the bottle for food, so I bet they scent out mites and would follow them into capped cells where they smell them or even chew their way in.


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## Ian

I like the sounds of that,


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## billabell

More info from Brian Spencer at Applied Bio-nomics:
I don't seem to know how to reply, or post.
Stratiolaelaps up until about 5 years ago was called Hypoaspis miles.
There are numerous mites in this large genera, but they are largely characterized as living in "litter".
They have been used for many years in poultry houses, controlling poultry mites and lice.
They cue on motion of small arthropods, and based on George's videos and experiments, they pose no risk to bees.
They bite the Varroa mite on the leg, fatally injuring it.
I personally believe that Ss colonizes the area of ground under the hives, during winter.
George is also investigating their effect on the small hive beetle.
Based on our horticultural experience, Ss should have some effect on any Arthropod that has a soil stage. For the Ss, a hive should provide the Ss with enough protection to convince it to stay in the hive, as long as there is food present.

Brian Spencer


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## Haraga

How do we order some?


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## Ian

I wouldn't rush in to buy this idea. Some study needs to be done before we pouring these guys into hives.


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## Green gardener

Re Stratiolaelaps

Hi everyone 
I am new here and from the SW corner of UK. [Cornwall]
Stratiolaelaps mites have just become a talking point on the BBKA Forum.
At our local BK Club AGM we had a talk by the head BK of the Buckfast Apiary, Clare Densley. Last year she conducted a trial with these mites which produced good results.
We have since been offered these mites for use in our own apiaries.The details we have been given are the following;

Treatment is 1000 S's per hive every 9 weeks, starting late March until end of September.
They come in either 5000 /box or 10000 / box and have to be split between hives.
On delivery they must be stored at 10C and put in the hives within 7 days. It is considered that 4 treatments per season are necessary.


Cost per hive to us is around £3.50 per treatment, ie £14 per season. [not much good at maths of currency exchange so work it out for yourselves.]

The four treatments per season suggests that they only have a short lifespan so presumably would not be a threat to the colony population

At this point this is as much information as I have available. I hope this post will be of help.


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## Lburou

Thank you for that input Green gardener, and welcome


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## Green gardener

Follow up to my previous post, unfortunately no one in our group has taken up the S's. I think the main reason being that we were required to order by mid March. The problem being at this time we don't know how many colonies will survive the winter, particularly this year since the weather is so bad at the moment it isn't possible to open a hive. One of my problems is that I only have 3 colonies so to buy the minimum quantity of 5000 mites and only need 3000 would make for an expensive trial. I think maybe if we are able to have discussions and more info another year a few of us might get involved with this treatment.
G g.


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## billabell

More info from Brian Spencer at Applied-Bionomics re Canadian trial:
Re: Ss 
Hi Bill
We have known that they work for about 15 years now. I have just never been able to get a University to go with it.
About 10 years ago, I thought I had U of Alabama going ahead, but they dropped the project just before we started.
George at SRI picked up the ball 2 years ago, but even he was threatend with a cease and desist order last year from the province of Ontario.
My gut feeling is 1,000 mites per hive is too low for a normal varroa treatment.
I think George's trials this year will show that 100 ml of our media is good (2500 mites). Which is 10 hives per $25 bottle.
George is also trying to line up a small hive beetle trial this year, with Ss
Brian Spencer
On 2013-03-23, at 4:09 PM, Bill Abell <[email protected]> wrote:
Brian,
Here is a copy of the latest post to the thread on the mites. Apparently it is going well in the UK. Do you have anything to report on the Canadian trials?
Gmail


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## Goat Man

I'll buy a bottle to try!
How do I get it??


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## DC Bees

I was thinking of ordering some of the Stratiolaelaps until I saw the shipping cost. We have some fungus gnats coming out of the soil from the house plants and wanted to see if they would help get rid of them.
Package was $15.95
Shipping $42.25
Total $58.20


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## Goat Man

If that will treat 10 hives, that's only $5.82 each. Doesn't sound too bad to me

DC, where did you find a place to order them?


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## DC Bees

The first site will show some of the venders and the second is the one where I got the price from.
http://www.appliedbio-nomics.com/products/stratiolaelaps
http://greenmethods.com/site/product/stratiolaelaps-scimitus-soil-dwelling-predatory-mites/


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## Bush_84

I hope there are some here who are feeling a bit experimental and report back. If I even get some individual reports here about it's efficacy I would be down for next year. Just make sure to take mite counts. Will add a lot of credibility if you do sugar roll mite counts.


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## Duboisi

Sounds interesting.

But more research clearly has to be done. Firstly I would like to know what happens if you simply put some of these mites in a container with some Varroas.

The second test would be a check of viruses etc they may bring.

Then they should be observed at comb with eggs, that have been taken out of a hive. (no bees around) Same with young larvae.

Thirdly a test where one observes them in the hive. How are the bees acting towards them?

They might eat eggs and small larvae - that might or might not be a problem. But a large population might look for any foodsource, even if the mites would normally considder the prey as to big.

Lastly - I assume that these mites can be breed in a jar, small fishtank or thelike. Possibly with two cultures, where some of the mites they are normally hunting is kept on plant debris, ant then are fed to the Stratiolaelaps.

BTW- Reminds me that the mites they prey on also have to be checked out if they are kept together.


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## Glen H

Came across this thread and was wondering if anyone has tried this yet or if there is any new news on the subject?

Glen


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## Green gardener

Glen H said:


> Came across this thread and was wondering if anyone has tried this yet or if there is any new news on the subject?
> 
> Glen


I think this has been tried in US, probably find thread about that somewhere on this forum.
I am in UK. The Buckfast Abbey beekeeper in Devon is using these mites in a trial which I think is in its second season. As far as I know it is showing good results.
I do not have any contact details to hand but you may be able to get info via "The Bee Vet", based, I think, in Exeter UK. Sorry I cannot be more specific at the moment, will be away from home for a few days. Will get more details on return and post then.
Green gardener


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## philip.devos

Just wondering, is this an organism that we humans routinely take in like many other organism? Any known effect on humans? Does it make us better beeks?


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## shinbone

Seems like it would be big news which would spread like wild fire through the beekeeping community if stratiolaelaps was effective against varroa mites with little or no negative side affects.


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## FlowerPlanter

I would think anyone should be able to breed these mites if they know how.

Maybe possible to breed them inside the hive. Maybe we all turn our SBB in to moss bottom boards

I wonder if they already live in the bottom of hallowed decaying trees?


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## 123_Bee

Glen H said:


> Came across this thread and was wondering if anyone has tried this yet or if there is any new news on the subject?


There's another thread with a link to the Bee Vet here in Devon. http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...with-Strateolaeps-BOOMING&p=948626#post948626

The website, with information and safety pdfs is http://www.bee-vet.co.uk/shop/view/index.aspx/product/predator-mite-sachet-500-23

I haven't tried them and don't know anybody who has, but had an update the other day. I don't think there's any harm in sharing it.


> Predator Mites
> 
> Dear Beekeepers,
> 
> The final batch of predatory mites to control Varroa will be in stock at Bee Vet in the week commencing September 30th. If you would like to treat your colonies for a final time this season to maintain a predator population right into winter then please order the number of sachets you require online at www.bee-vet.co.uk in the varroa control section of the shop before Tuesday 1st October. Two per colony is the recommended dose.
> 
> Can I say a big thank you to all those beekeepers who have tried out this novel treatment method and particular thanks to those who have provided feedback. Both the anecdotal feedback and the trial results have again been positive in supporting this approach as an effective way to maintain stable, low Varroa levels.
> 
> My advice about using the final batch now depends on your current Varroa burden. If you know or suspect that Varroa levels have risen in your colonies then I advise that chemical treatment is used instead even though this would kill off any remaining predators. Please contact me if you need advice on this. There are options still available even though the temperature is cooling. I would hope that the mites would be effective into winter but if a long mild autumn allows brood levels to stay high and Varroa climbs very late then a mid-winter oxalic treatment is still an option. You may prefer to carry out an oxalic treatment regardless of levels anyway if this is your usual treatment of choice. You can then repopulate with predatory mites early next season.
> 
> For those who used predatory mites early in the season and did not receive clear instructions in time for re-ordering please accept my sincere apologies. We may have mistakenly given the impression that you were automatically enrolled for the whole season. If you have not yet used chemical treatment methods this season and the varroa levels remain low then you are very welcome to add in the final batch. Otherwise I hope we can promise clearer and simpler ordering for next season. Your feedback from a single or double dose only would also be much appreciated.
> 
> For anyone who is interested in the predatory mites but has not yet applied them to their colonies this season then my advice is to hang on until next year. Biological control is usually most effective when it goes in before a problem really builds. It safer to treat by conventional methods this year and if you need advice on this then please get in touch.
> 
> Here’s hoping that your girls all get put to bed in good order for the winter and that conditions are kinder than last year. I will be especially interested to know the fate and strength of predator treated colonies next spring.
> 
> Please visit the Bee Vet Website for advice, products and access to our forum.
> 
> http://www.bee-vet.co.uk/
> 
> Best Wishes
> 
> Emily Simcock MRCVS


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## BMartin

Glen H said:


> Came across this thread and was wondering if anyone has tried this yet or if there is any new news on the subject?
> 
> Glen


I tried them this past season with mixed results. George Scott of SRI in Canada has worked with them and seems to have had good results.( He’s mentioned above.) As with all biocontrol organisms timing and release density is the key to success and that may have been some of the issues with the trial I did. I treated 20 colonies in June placing the Stratiolaelaps or Ss on pieces of newspaper, 200ml, under the inn cover. Did an alcohol wash to establish the varroa populations in each hive before. The newspaper was used to keep the carrier and Ss from falling down through the SBB. Looking back at the weather records and we were in a heat wave at the time with 90+ temperatures. In the top of the hive the heat could of very well killed them. They are a soil mite so I would suspect they don’t tolerate extremely high temperatures. After 6 weeks most of the hives had increased in varroa levels. I re-inoculated the hives in late July, this time sprinkling the Ss carrier onto the top bars and allowing it to sift down on the bees as George Scott had recommended. Sampling the hives 4 to 5 weeks late show no change in the growth of the varroa. If they were 5% in July they were 5% in August for the most part. 2 hives in the treatment group had under 2% varroa levels from the first treatment and it has stayed low. They were both dinks coming out of winter, had carried a high varroa load the previous season, 10% in August and at June treatment time were the smallest in the group. They also had the same queens from the year before. Did the Ss have an effect? Could of or not. Was the stabilizing of the varroa populations due to the Ss in the other colonies. Maybe but most of the bee stock is from treatment free sources or VSH lines so that probably had an influence on the mite populations. I’ll give it another try next 

Byron


----------



## Glen H

Thanks Byron for your input.
Hopefully others that have tried it will comment too.


Glen


----------



## 123_Bee

I'm interested in trying Stratiolaelaps next year, but I have open mesh floors so a lot will fall straight through onto the ground so I'm tempted to switch a couple of colonies to solid floors.

I've been searching unsuccessfully for a study of the success, or otherwise, of Stratiolaelaps on both types of floor.


----------



## AJSpencer

Hi there,
I'm Brian Spencer's son, Adam Spencer. I'd be happy to answer any questions regarding the Ss vs Varroa.
[email protected]
or
[email protected]


----------



## shinbone

Brian - Do they work? What percentage of mite reduction is typical after one application of Stratiolelaps?


----------



## max2

Gord said:


> There was an old lady who swallowed a fly...
> 
> Australia has had a couple of spectacular failures with introducing predators.
> I'm going to let a couple of years experience build up before I decide.


Also some spectacularly successful ones. Cactoblastus cactorum comes to mind.


----------



## AJSpencer

shinbone said:


> Brian - Do they work? What percentage of mite reduction is typical after one application of Stratiolelaps?


I recommend viewing the two video's George Scott has put together on the Niagara Beeway website. George did a great job.
http://www.niagarabeeway.com/bio-control-for-varroa-mite.html
http://www.niagarabeeway.com/july-9-2013-update-on-the-varroa-mite.html

The Ss will stay in the hive and cycle. They will feed on the Varroa until the Varroa are eradicated. Then they will leave the hive and move on. They do not negatively affect the bees. The bees recognize the Ss after the initial application and actually distribute them around the hive. This is why one application in the spring and one in the fall is recommended. Residual chemicals that USED to work for the Varroa will impair Ss. 
Ss is native to North America. Introduced by Dave Gillespie of Ag Canada.

Adam


----------



## AJSpencer

They routinely end up crawling all over us during rearing. Other than tickle, no other effects.


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## AJSpencer

Kieck said:


> I'd like to see an experiment with a negative control ("no _Stratiolaelaps_") to see if/how much effect these mites have on _Varroa_. Maybe that's included, but no mention made it into the e-mail of the difference between treated and untreated.


http://www.niagarabeeway.com/bio-control-for-varroa-mite.html

That link has a video showing one with and one without.


----------



## AJSpencer

Goat Man said:


> I'll buy a bottle to try!
> How do I get it??


http://www.appliedbio-nomics.com/distributors/
IPM Laboratories is probably the closest to you.


----------



## AJSpencer

BMartin said:


> Best to use them as soon as you get them although if we are pressed for time we keep them in the refrigerator over night and then get them out the next morning. One question I have is what’s the biology behind it, as in what stage does the Stratiolaelaps consume the varroa and is there a reproductive stage in the hive. My understanding and it may be incorrect is that they feed on juvenile stages of the target pest of which the varroa juveniles are in the capped brood cell. Does it enter the cell with the female mite? We use them as a soil predator and you never find them up on the plant always running around on the surface or beneath the surface. It’s also a persistent bio.


As for storing, the tubes are fine at room temperature overnight, kept on their side. DO NOT REFRIGERATE. One of the biggest breakthroughs in biocontrol in the past 10 years is the discovery that cooling beneficials below 8 degrees severely impairs them, resulting in inability to hunt and mate. 
The tubes consist of a peat and bran mixture, a bran mite which is food for the Ss during shipment, and the Ss themselves. They can survive in the tube for at least one week at room temperature. But just like you said, it's always best to get them into the crop as soon as possible.


----------



## billabell

You might want to support one of this sites advertisers Bugs for Growers in Ohio. See their ad on this page. $30 plus shipping for 12,500 bugs.


----------



## AJSpencer

I need to say, just to make sure, that everything I write is *my opinion.*
Like stated earlier, more trials need to be done and a University or government organization needs to properly document the experiments. We now have a lady who is about to start her doctorate on this. So it will be some time still. Skeptics will need to wait, and those willing to take a _chance_, do so at your own risk.
I will post any key information or results I receive in years to come.


----------



## Dominic

AJSpencer said:


> I need to say, just to make sure, that everything I write is *my opinion.*
> Like stated earlier, more trials need to be done and a University or government organization needs to properly document the experiments. We now have a lady who is about to start her doctorate on this. So it will be some time still. Skeptics will need to wait, and those willing to take a _chance_, do so at your own risk.
> I will post any key information or results I receive in years to come.


On what grounds did the Ontarian ministry order a cease and desist?

When studying horticulture, beneficials like this one came up, and my first reflex when I read about this mite that eat mites was "I wonder if it'd attack varroa and tracheal mites...?" Glad to see I wasn't the first. I'd sure love to see proper studies conducted for this so that the Canadian government could authorize it.

Speaking of tracheal mites, has your study looked at Ss's behavior towards them?


----------



## AJSpencer

I could not find any research done vs the tracheal mites. That's a scary mite!

As for the "cease and desist" thing, the reason, through the grape vine, was that there is a bee act from 1920 stating you cannot put anything foreign into a hive. The other rumor is that it was enforced by authorities for fear or losing funding from chemical companies. But let's not get into conspiracies. There is no doubt _something_ is making it difficult to get proper research done on this, but there isn't much more we can do about it. Hopefully the lady we have who plans to do her doctorate on it follows through.


----------



## Grid

Anyone know where I can get these in Ontario? I know of NIC: http://www.naturalinsectcontrol.com/product.php?id=000000257

Anywhere else? I am near Ottawa. I have a source, but like to have choices, compare prices.

Grid


----------



## AJSpencer

There is now progress with a group of researchers. I predict this time next year to have some results. If anything is published I will try to remember to post links on this thread. Main focus is -- does it really work? And do they feed on bee larvae? 
Also may be some research on Ss vs the SHB.


----------



## Grid

In a conversation about these little bugs, a friend of mine asked: "I am not worried about the Ss themselves, I am concerned about their metabolic by products which we don’t know anything about. Would there be any harmful residue in the honey from having these mites in the hive season long?"

I think it is an excellent question. Anyone know?

Anyone know if these are CFIA/USAD approved? That might be an indicator, and would make me more comfortable trying these on my hives in Canada.

Grid


----------



## AJSpencer

As far as our product here goes, the ingredients are very simple. You have the Ss and their temporary food source for shipment which is a grain mite. Then there's the grain for the grain mite to feed on. And for insulation and aeration, mixed in is a peat and vermiculite combination. That's it.
I don't know what the other producers are mixing in.
Good question indeed.

As for the CFIA/USDA, yes they are approved. We are a Canadian company and ship many Ss across the border weekly. They are native all over North America and Europe. You could probably find some in your backyard if you're up for the challenge to rear them! 

Sorry guys, not trying to "take over" this thread. :lookout:
Adam


----------



## shinbone

Grid said:


> Would there be any harmful residue in the honey from having these mites in the hive season long?"


Just me speculating, but: Bees are quite scrupulious about keeping a clean living space. It seems that any dirt caused by Ss would be cleaned out of the hive, just like any other dirt which gets into the hive.


----------



## rhaldridge

As I understand it, there are literally hundreds of creatures living in a healthy hive, in addition to the bees. I'm not concerned with the byproducts of one more bug-- in any case, no one seems to worry about the byproducts of varroa mites tainting the honey.

I decided to try these bugs in my 6 first year hives here in Florida. I put them in the hives in the fall, and all I can report is... so far so good-- all 6 are still alive and fairly vigorous and are maintaining a small amount of brood.


----------



## BMartin

The hive is full of insects, mites, bees, beetles and more. I doubt there would be any contamination issues. The question is, is there an efficacy in using them. As I mention earlier in this thread I dumped a lot of Ss into many hives at different times and the mites continues to grow at what would be normal seasonal levels. It could be the timing, the delivery, the viability of the predator, it doesn’t work or something else. A good study would be helpful using controls and rate/timing. 

Rhaldridge, if you have the time monitor the mite growth of your treated colonies. It will tell whether it’s working. I’d be interested to see what you get especially since you mite populations are seasonally more active in Fl.

Byron


----------



## Pops

Goat Man said:


> If that will treat 10 hives, that's only $5.82 each. Doesn't sound too bad to me
> 
> DC, where did you find a place to order them?


Looks like it could treat as many as 20 hives with the lower treatment rate.


----------



## Grid

Thanks, AJ. I intend to run my own trial in the spring, do a compare and contrast of 2-4 hives with the Ss and 2-4 hives with Formic/Oxalic. Same bee genetics, same hive configurations, same yard. Try to make it so the only significant variable is the Ss vs Oxalic/Formic. See what I see and will report back. Any advice or help on this little project appreciated. 

Grid.


----------



## AJSpencer

Hi Grid, if you think it's possible, maybe have a control hive with no varroa treatment whatsoever. For example, in George's video,
http://www.niagarabeeway.com/bio-control-for-varroa-mite.html
which is great, but leaves the question "well, what if the mite-away strips only had a negative effect and the Ss hives are just normal?".
It would be interesting to see the data from all three.
Two major Universities in the US are now both getting ready for official experiments and will have published data. Hopefully by next fall!


----------



## forestbee

AJSpencer said:


> Sorry guys, not trying to "take over" this thread. :lookout:
> Adam


No need to apologies and thanks Adam very much for the information. Is it approved by the CFIA to be used inside the hive?


----------



## AJSpencer

That's a tricky one. It is approved by CFIA as a plant protection product. So I assume once these formal publications are out and we begin to market it specifically for hives, we will need to deal with that. As it is right now, it is a predator for fungus gnats and overwintering spidermite in the soil, which it is fantastic at.


----------



## rhaldridge

BMartin said:


> Rhaldridge, if you have the time monitor the mite growth of your treated colonies. It will tell whether it’s working. I’d be interested to see what you get especially since you mite populations are seasonally more active in Fl.
> 
> Byron


I did a sugar roll assessment in mid-September and got an average of 5 mites per 300 bees. (I tested a full cup of bees, which I believe is 600 bees, and got a drop of 10 mites on average.) Since all my colonies are either long Langstroth (horizontal) hives or nucs, it isn't easy for me to monitor drops, but I will do another sugar roll when the first decent flows start in late January. I checked all the hives yesterday, and they all have brood, so here at least there is little or no broodless period when all mites are available for predators.

This was in no shape or form a scientific test. It was just a shot in the dark by a first year beekeepers who doesn't want to treat (and doesn't regard introducing predators into the hive as a treatment-- not going to argue that one!) I'm just trying to have enough bees in the spring to expand from, and this was a relatively inexpensive shot in the dark that didn't seem to have a downside.


----------



## BMartin

rhaldridge said:


> I did a sugar roll assessment in mid-September and got an average of 5 mites per 300 bees. (I tested a full cup of bees, which I believe is 600 bees, and got a drop of 10 mites on average.) Since all my colonies are either long Langstroth (horizontal) hives or nucs, it isn't easy for me to monitor drops, but I will do another sugar roll when the first decent flows start in late January. I checked all the hives yesterday, and they all have brood, so here at least there is little or no broodless period when all mites are available for predators.
> 
> 
> 
> That doesn't seem to be a high mite count for September. As you have brood rearing through most of the year there is the possibility that they could continue to reproduce. George Scott found from his observation that they wouldn't winter over in the hives in Ontario.
> Byron
Click to expand...


----------



## Grid

BMartin said:


> rhaldridge said:
> 
> 
> 
> That doesn't seem to be a high mite count for September. As you have brood rearing through most of the year there is the possibility that they could continue to reproduce. George Scott found from his observation that they wouldn't winter over in the hives in Ontario.
> Byron
> 
> 
> 
> That leads nicely into my next question, BMartin.  WHY don't they overwinter in the hives in Ontario? Is it the temperature? Lack of food? Some other aspect of their life cycle? Anyone know?
> 
> Grid
Click to expand...


----------



## BMartin

I don’t think anyone knows. That’s why good research is need. I do know that in the commercial use, controlling reptile mites, chicken lice, black vine weevil and in greenhouse horticulture, they have to do periodic releases to get the efficacy. As they are a temperate mite I would imagine they sense the coming winter season and would prepare for a winter dormancy/hibernation of which the hive may not be the correct place. A couple of weeks after I had done releases, I looked at the trays under the SBB and inner covers with a 15x loop and they were teaming with small insect that normally inhabit a hive. Incidentally I did find some Ss also. But if you look now all that insect life is silent and in a winter hibernation mode maybe in the hive maybe out. 

George Scott claims that when using the Ss, mites are no longer an issue and although they can still be found in the hive the populations are very low. He also mentioned that this year other Ontario beekeepers had used the SS with the same success.

Byron


----------



## Grid

BMartin said:


> I don’t think anyone knows. That’s why good research is need. I do know that in the commercial use, controlling reptile mites, chicken lice, black vine weevil and in greenhouse horticulture, they have to do periodic releases to get the efficacy. As they are a temperate mite I would imagine they sense the coming winter season and would prepare for a winter dormancy/hibernation of which the hive may not be the correct place. A couple of weeks after I had done releases, I looked at the trays under the SBB and inner covers with a 15x loop and they were teaming with small insect that normally inhabit a hive. Incidentally I did find some Ss also. But if you look now all that insect life is silent and in a winter hibernation mode maybe in the hive maybe out.
> 
> George Scott claims that when using the Ss, mites are no longer an issue and although they can still be found in the hive the populations are very low. He also mentioned that this year other Ontario beekeepers had used the SS with the same success.
> 
> Byron


Maybe we need to convert all our screened bottom boards to hold soil and winter food for the Ss!


----------



## Grid

AJSpencer said:


> Hi Grid, if you think it's possible, maybe have a control hive with no varroa treatment whatsoever. For example, in George's video,
> http://www.niagarabeeway.com/bio-control-for-varroa-mite.html
> which is great, but leaves the question "well, what if the mite-away strips only had a negative effect and the Ss hives are just normal?".
> It would be interesting to see the data from all three.
> Two major Universities in the US are now both getting ready for official experiments and will have published data. Hopefully by next fall!


Great news on the two major US Universities. Wonderful! Now how about some Canadian trials? Maybe even in Ontario? Anyone? My upcoming experiments will not produce publishable results.  I am also reluctant to sacrifice any of my (few) hives to a non-treated control. I know Formic and Oxalic are better than nothing, what I want to see is whether Ss is better than Formic and Oxalic.


----------



## c10250

Grid said:


> Thanks, AJ. I intend to run my own trial in the spring, do a compare and contrast of 2-4 hives with the Ss and 2-4 hives with Formic/Oxalic. Same bee genetics, same hive configurations, same yard. Try to make it so the only significant variable is the Ss vs Oxalic/Formic. See what I see and will report back. Any advice or help on this little project appreciated.
> 
> Grid.


What will you be measuring? Mite drop? Mites in an alcohol wash? honey production??


----------



## Grid

c10250 said:


> What will you be measuring? Mite drop? Mites in an alcohol wash? honey production??


I have not arrived at a definitive list of measurements, but you are right to ask: I should. 

I was thinking mite drops would be a problem, because I do not want to examine the sticky boards with a microscope to see if the mite on the board is a regular drop, or if it is a carcass chewed on by Ss. I think I need to use phoretic mites as a measure, so probably alcohol roll or icing-sugar roll. Whatever I choose I will use the same method on all hives season long.

I want to observe mite load, honey production over the season, entrance activity, laying pattern, brood nest health and size, and buildup. Those are the main things I will be looking at. Other suggestions welcome.

Grid


----------



## Michael Bush

Considering that there are 170 mites that live in and around bees in a colony, I'm wondering why someone doesn't do a study of how all of those mites interact with Varroa and Tracheal mites (not to mention Tropilaelaps, but please don't bring them here to study them...)

A mite that already lives with bees would be more useful as a permanant solution.


----------



## Grid

Michael Bush said:


> Considering that there are 170 mites that live in and around bees in a colony, I'm wondering why someone doesn't do a study of how all of those mites interact with Varroa and Tracheal mites (not to mention Tropilaelaps, but please don't bring them here to study them...)
> 
> A mite that already lives with bees would be more useful as a permanant solution.


I wonder what impact Ss will have on the local micro-fauna. Will they also prey on other beneficial mites or pseudo-scorpions or...? So far in my bee yards, if there is a hive-native mite that preys on varroa, either I don't have it, or it does not do so in sufficient numbers to make a noticeable difference. Hives that I have left alone have died from varroa. Maybe I have the wrong bees, or the wrong varroa, or the wrong micro-fauna. Ss, if it works as advertised, will be a LOT better than anything I have seen work for me to date. I am not giving up hope though! I have found someone local to me with bees descended from British Black Bees who say they have never treated. I will be starting a treatment-free yard with those bees, and I am getting 6 nucs as well as 6 queens, so that if a part of their success comes from something in the hive and not just the bee genetics, I will hopefully get some of it in the nucs.


----------



## melliferal

Following this with interest. Is it just me, or does anyone else find the idea of using other mites to kill Varroa both amusing and oddly satisfying? Assuming it works, of course.


----------



## BMartin

> Grid said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder what impact Ss will have on the local micro-fauna. Will they also prey on other beneficial mites or pseudo-scorpions or...?
> 
> 
> 
> They are generalist predators and seem to feed on many different food sources. I would imagine that other mites and small insect in the hive would be food sources. This in itself could be an issue with varroa as they may feed on a more preferable insect leaving the varroa with little predation. If you watch them at work they, like many predatory mites, are constantly moving at a fairly good speed with what appears great determination. You do have to wonder if this little mite or one like it is not responsible for some of the surviving bee trees.
> 
> Byron
Click to expand...


----------



## Grid

BMartin said:


> They are generalist predators and seem to feed on many different food sources. I would imagine that other mites and small insect in the hive would be food sources. This in itself could be an issue with varroa as they may feed on a more preferable insect leaving the varroa with little predation. If you watch them at work they, like many predatory mites, are constantly moving at a fairly good speed with what appears great determination. You do have to wonder if this little mite or one like it is not responsible for some of the surviving bee trees.
> 
> Byron
> 
> 
> 
> The other thing hoped for but not known, and which I am thankfully not able to test, is that the Ss may prey on small hive beetle larvae in the soil. Wouldn't that be nice? Sprinkle some Ss media in the hive, sprinkle some on the ground around it...
Click to expand...


----------



## Grid

Grid said:


> So far in my bee yards, if there is a hive-native mite that preys on varroa, either I don't have it, or it does not do so in sufficient numbers to make a noticeable difference.


Looking over my reply, I realized that Ss are not in my hives in sufficient numbers to make a difference either, which is why I would be adding them. If I am adding something to my hives to prey on varroa, it might be wise to choose something that is already in the hives, and which is already preying on the varroa, but which may simply need a population boost. Are there pre-existing known effective predators of varroa already in hives in North America? In your part of the planet? Do we know? I am guessing not, but If there is, we could maybe breed those and add them to our hives, and not be introducing a foreign life-form into the hive eco-system. I guess that was kind of your point, Michael, yes?


----------



## rhaldridge

BMartin said:


> They are generalist predators and seem to feed on many different food sources. I would imagine that other mites and small insect in the hive would be food sources. This in itself could be an issue with varroa as they may feed on a more preferable insect leaving the varroa with little predation. If you watch them at work they, like many predatory mites, are constantly moving at a fairly good speed with what appears great determination. You do have to wonder if this little mite or one like it is not responsible for some of the surviving bee trees.
> 
> Byron
> 
> 
> 
> When I read about Tom Seeley's experiences in moving Arnot Forest colonies into modern equipment in modern bee yards, I wondered about this. He attributed the failure of these bees to thrive without treatment to a loss of isolation, but I think there are other possibilities. What if some of the bee tree commensal organisms were responsible for the ability of these colonies to tolerate mite infestation?
Click to expand...


----------



## Grid

Not encouraging results.

http://brookfieldfarmhoney.wordpress.com/2013/12/26/mites-that-might-eat-mites/


----------



## Michael Bush

> What if some of the bee tree commensal organisms were responsible for the ability of these colonies to tolerate mite infestation? 

And/or natural comb... there are a lot of things we change...


----------



## AJSpencer

No idea why putting it on newspaper was thought of. They likely stayed in the media on top of the newspaper until they starved, then walked down the outsides of the hive. All of our successful trials have been dropped directly inside of the hive. The healthy bees later clean up all of the media anyways.


----------



## BMartin

I tired the newspaper route and it definitely didn't work. George Scott recommends sprinkling right on the top bars and cluster. The trial was done late in the season and with biologicals timing is everything. I did have the same type of results as the blogger but that doesn't mean it's ineffective. As stated before we need more research.

Byron


----------



## Grid

I am still proceeding with my trial in the spring. I will share my results.


----------



## Grid

This is an interesting video showing the pseudo scorpions killing varroa. Does anyone breed them in sufficient numbers to use as a treatment? As Michael Bush pointed out, they already exist in the hives, and this video is just as compelling as the ones we have seen on Ss.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXzifp38vjA


----------



## Grid

Someone is at least looking at how the pseudoscorpions breed. Not sure if anyone has figured out how to breed them in numbers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tmDmIwGFkc


----------



## AJSpencer

Hi everyone,
Things are going on as planned and proper research will begin this year. 
A few major trials will begin in Spring across Canada and USA. I will send an update now and then. A paper will be published in the end of course, but I expect promising results to share early on, judging by the feedback we have collected so far.
Cheers.


----------



## imkeer

AJSpencer?
Anyone?
Any updates?
I tried Stratiolaelaps scimitus in some hives with DWV half may. Symptoms gone and colonies still thriving...
Repeated treatment half september. Results of this small non-scientific experiment next spring...

Luc P. (BE)


----------



## AJSpencer

imkeer said:


> AJSpencer?
> Anyone?
> Any updates?
> I tried Stratiolaelaps scimitus in some hives with DWV half may. Symptoms gone and colonies still thriving...
> Repeated treatment half september. Results of this small non-scientific experiment next spring...
> 
> Luc P. (BE)


Hey Luc P.,
Yes, our main trial has proven to knock down the varroa numbers to 25% compared to the control. Chemical treatment comparison only dropped to 75% of the control. So, we know it works, but we need to do more work on how many mites should be applied, etc. Not always is more better, so we need to nail down a number. Will keep posted.
Adam


----------



## shinbone

What chemical treatment was used for comparison?


----------



## JRG13

I treated a few in spring, hives held up pretty well but I did not have the time to reapply in summer when I wanted too. I re-applied in august to one of the original hives, we'll see how it goes. The other hives, I treated one with a single round of OA, the other probably should get one, and the 4th hive was in full mite collapse come September.


----------



## AJSpencer

shinbone said:


> What chemical treatment was used for comparison?


It is whatever the apiary would normally use, so they were called "normal" hives. There were control hives with no treatment whatsoever, Ss hives, and normal hives. The normally used chemicals were formic acid, oxalic acid, ApiVar strips.

In short the data for mean varroa mites counted in 24 hours on sticky board per colony:
Normal: 17
Control: 9
Ss: 4

48 colonies were used, 16 each. 
More details will come soon. I've only received the draft.
Adam


----------



## Che Guebuddha

c10250 said:


> How about putting a little moss under the SBB to give them something to eat when all the varroa are gone??


In case no one mentioned it;
Phil Chandler has build a thing called Eco-floor in his top bar hives. They are simply deep floors filled with aged wood chips to provide substrate to various mites living in the colony. This Eco-floor also acts as a sponge to suck up condensation. Its still being tested but it sure does replicate the hollow tree floor with lots of debris. I will be testing this in a few of my hives. Of course I dont treat against Varroa because treatments would also kill off Ss.


----------



## Michael Bush

I experimented with trying to provide a place for detritus in a hive back in 2002. I was never happy with the results. It seems like a good idea, but in practice it's rather tricky. Either you give the bees access in which case they clean it out, or you keep the bees away from it, in which case their enemies can hide there. In a tree it sort of happens naturally. It starts out with rot in the bottom. The bees are working at cleaning things up and propolizing everything. Things fall to the floor (uncapping, dropped wax scales, dropped pollen etc.) ants go after the pollen. Mites go after smaller stuff. Comb is being built down and there is typically some gap between the detritus and the comb. It's harder to arrange in a movable comb hive...


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## buckbee

My approach has been to use semi-rotten wood chips, which have been stacked on bare soil for at least one month to attract soil-dwelling mites, such as Stratiolelaps. This material is then added to an open trough, and the surface of the material forms the floor of the hive, and to which bees have unrestricted access. The wood chips are too heavy for bees to remove (unlike the wood shavings I tried initially) and the only problem has been keeping them sufficiently damp to maintain a population of mites, earwigs, etc. I am experimenting with lining the trough with a semi-permeable material.

Too early to draw any conclusions, but the hives that have these floors seem to be thriving. I haven't done any mite counts, so I can make no claims on that score at the moment.


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## AJSpencer

Good ideas. Though Ss may not be "the answer", getting chemicals out of the hives will allow whatever naturally occurring predators or parasites to varroa to enter the hives without dying immediately.


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## imkeer

The Niagara Beeway beeks posted their 2014 report:http://www.niagarabeeway.com/varroa-mite-2014-report.html
Looks promising!

They write about doses of 200 ml/hive. Does anyone know how many Ss are in 200 ml of Bionomics Ss? (I can buy Ss in Belgium and one tube contains 10000 of them.) I read somewhere 1000 Ss/hive would be a good dose for one treatment, so now I would like to know if these beekeepers apply the same dose or not...


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## JRG13

Tried them on 4 hives, all collapsed to mites. I did two treatments, one in late spring, and one in early fall.


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## Harley Craig

These things winter in the ground correct? What about a 12-18 in bottomless box settling directly on the ground with a screen top as a hive stand . This would give the space needed for separation, give the SS a place to go in the winter and prevent comb building below the bottom box


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## shinbone

JRG13 - thanks for the report. Sorry you lost your hives.


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## Ebot

imkeer said:


> The Niagara Beeway beeks posted their 2014 report:http://www.niagarabeeway.com/varroa-mite-2014-report.html
> Looks promising!
> 
> They write about doses of 200 ml/hive. Does anyone know how many Ss are in 200 ml of Bionomics Ss? (I can buy Ss in Belgium and one tube contains 10000 of them.) I read somewhere 1000 Ss/hive would be a good dose for one treatment, so now I would like to know if these beekeepers apply the same dose or not...


It is listed as 25,000 per L, so 200 ml would be 5000.


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## AJSpencer

Ebot said:


> It is listed as 25,000 per L, so 200 ml would be 5000.


Hi all,
These things sure take time...
Looks like some researchers from a University in the US may be publishing something on this this coming Fall/Winter. Sounds promising "for". I will send a link when it is published. 
Sorry for not being on here much. It has been a very busy year. 
Adam


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## AJSpencer

So the researcher mentioned above has confirmed the Ss does predate the varroa mite in vitro. They could not get good results from their hives however. 
They are currently in the process of writing a manuscript of their results, so shouldn't be long. Will put a link up when I get.
Additionally, research is being conducted by a couple guys at a University in Holland, and more is about to begin from Laval University in Quebec.
Looking promising... but quite a variation in results. Have any of you tried Ss in your hives?? What did you find?


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## JRG13

Tried them, found them pretty worthless.


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## beepro

So I have a half barrel hive made out of a 55 gal plastic drum. I want to turn
this hive into an eco hive with the bottom all fill in.
What substrates on the floor should I use to house these beneficial mites?
I want to have a colony that can sustain themselves over time. Any idea on the materials for
the eco floor?


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## JRG13

Composted bark and leaf litter would probably be ideal, maybe some peat moss mixed in, saw dust as well.


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## jwcarlson

JRG13 said:


> Composted bark and leaf litter would probably be ideal, maybe some peat moss mixed in, saw dust as well.


Like a bee terrarium.


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## Harley Craig

did I just read eco and plastic in the same sentence? LOL


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## AAIndigo

Haraga said:


> How do we order some?


Some here
http://www.arbico-organics.com/prod...ypoaspis-miles/pest-solver-guide-gnats-midges


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## beepro

Well, if this experiment works then 
transfer them to Lauri's triple wooden hive box
should be more eco friendly. For now it is just the
plastic barrel for the sake of this experiment. Afraid
too many of them crawling onto my bee suit on a 
hive inspection. Not too fond of those mites either.
This should be a fun experiment to work on during the Spring
expansion going on now after I waterproof
the perimeter of the barrel hive with a foam tape sponge. Put in
18 frame of bees from the double deep hive boxes. Figured at least
1 foot of empty space at the bottom for the substrates. How close 
the substrates have to be from the bottom of the bee frames? Maybe an inch
or 2" of empty space from the frames?
Put in a small electric blanket to keep the hive temp. at 77F for the mites
to thrive and feed the bees Lauri's bricks and patty subs.
My ideal version would be a big layer of the saw dust at
the bottom from the stove pellets pine after loosen them up with water.
A thin layer of fine vermiculite mixed in with the peat moss. Then a layer of compost and worm casting. 
Follow by a 1/2" layer of organic matters like leaf litters, some dry grass
clippings and some medium coarse wood bark/chips. Finally put in some red wrigglers. Oh, don't forget
some cow manure or the dry horse poop to feed the worms too. 
Last time I abandoned this project because the black paint on the bottom of the barrel peeled off. These
plastic barrel will not stick to any chemical inside. Have to rough it first with a grinder before you can paint it inside.
Having the substrates should keep everything nice and dark for the bees. What about the mites, do they need
lights to thrive? Wonder how they will respond with a strip of the led Christmas lights inside the barrel all around on
a timer?


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## garbeam

AJSpencer said:


> So the researcher mentioned above has confirmed the Ss does predate the varroa mite in vitro. They could not get good results from their hives however.
> They are currently in the process of writing a manuscript of their results, so shouldn't be long. Will put a link up when I get.
> Additionally, research is being conducted by a couple guys at a University in Holland, and more is about to begin from Laval University in Quebec.
> Looking promising... but quite a variation in results. Have any of you tried Ss in your hives?? What did you find?


Hi AJSpencer -- is the research manuscript published in the meantime?


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