# Town Considering Banning Beekeeping



## hallow (May 6, 2005)

The town I live in, Crewe, VA will more likely than not be passing an ordinance banning the keeping of bees. There will be a public meeting at 7pm on Monday, January 13th at the Crewe public library.

This apparently became an issue after someone kept around a dozen hives on a quarter acre lot and several neighbors complained that they were afraid because their children were allergic, or that the bees were a nuisance - disturbing family gatherings, swarming humming bird feeders and making it difficult to use a kiddie pool which was the nearest source of fresh water.

The keeper in question has apparently already removed all the hives from the property. I do not know what, if anything was discussed with this person before it was made a matter for town council - if the person was even made aware it was a problem.

I am considering attending the meeting and possibly speaking up.

I would plead that, rather than an outright ban, perhaps some limit on the number of hives per lot would make more sense.

Any ammunition I could use or suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks!

P.S. I'm not a keeper... Yet. My wife won't allow it until all the kids are out of the toddler stage and listen well enough to respect rules and follow instructions properly when it comes to the hive (s) - probably about 3-4 years from now.


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## borncamp (Jul 13, 2013)

Allergies - America has 50 deaths per year from stinging insect allergies. Compare this to 34,000 traffic fatalities each year.
http://www.webmd.com/allergies/guide/insect-stings

Humming Bird Feeders - Feral bees would also tap into humming bird feeders during a dearth. Not to mention ants and wasps.

Kiddie Pool - Just require a fresh water source closer to the hive.

Some communities already have nuisance laws on the books. If your community has a similar statute you might argue that the nuisance laws are sufficient and anything more would be over legislating.


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## disc999golfer999 (Jun 9, 2013)

If you have a laptop and WIFII,
You can have us fellow BEEKS attend via a Google Hangout!

We need to be present to speak our minds about what may be an over reaction.
Banning bee hives in the city is not the way to go.
In Washington state they require registration. In the city of Portland if you have over 5 hives you are required to get them registered.
I have 2 hives and will have 5 by next may. My neighbor who is 3 houses down has 15 hives on his property. Non registered.


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## Josh Rollins (Jan 2, 2014)

Get a hold of a master bee keeper. This is one of the questions they have to answer (or at least an example) to become a master bee keeper. I guarantee someone like David Burns can answer this and help you out. He is a master bee keeper in the EAS. This is one of the reasons why we have these guys. 

Monday - Thursday 10 am - 4:00pm Central Time 217-427-2678
Friday 10 am - 12noon


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## Josh Rollins (Jan 2, 2014)

I'm allergic to bees. I carry an EpiPen but that does not mean you are going to die. This is out of pure ignorance on the subject.


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## melliferal (Aug 30, 2010)

In another situation, where an antiquated law is on the books but nobody lately is complaining about being afraid of getting stung to death, perhaps progress could be made toward eliminating restrictions; but not in this case. The guy who, knowing there's children in the neighborhood who are "deathly allergic" to bees, nevertheless wants to keep tens of thousands of them in his yard is going to be the "bad guy" at that meeting, no matter how many statistics or personalities he brings in to argue his case. I know it sucks, but I'm going to have to swim against the stream here and suggest you not bother at this point and simply find an out-of-town site (a farm perhaps?) to keep your hives at.


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## jrbbees (Apr 4, 2010)

Hallow, Consider this:

Removing all the human managed bees is the correct way to make sure you will have some deaths from bee stings in our city. Bee keepers get their queens from queen breeders who are always on the the look out for any aggressive trait in their bees. They replace those bees by killing the queen and replacing her with a queen that is proven not to be aggressive. If we force the removal of all the managed bees in the city then in a few years the local bees that already live in trees, buildings and other places will start inbreeding. The males those queens mate with will not be from bees that have been kept gentle by your local bee keepers. When you create a vacuum, nature will fill it. There will then be a sudden increase in the flower nectar available to these unmanaged bees. They will no longer have to compete with manages bees for their food. You will then have an explosion of in the population of unmanaged bees because you will have created a vacuum that nature is ready to fill. And she will fill it with bees that have reverted back to their natural state of bees before they became "gentled" by bee keepers who don't want aggressive bees and have worked hard to breed that trait out of their bees.

Banning managed bees from the city is a sure way to remove the "gentling" effect from the bee population that already lives in the trees and other natural locations in our city. I know that banning all the bees seems like a responsible thing to do to protect our citizens. But it truth, it is an action that will have a damaging effect down the road. Just like we are now seeing the real effects of over prescribing antibiotics and the over use of pesticides. There is no way you can remove all the managed hives from the city without it having an effect on the local bee population. And that effect will then be out of your control.

Sirs and Ladies, rather than throw open the door open to a complete uncontrolled growth of unmanaged bees in our city, may I propose that you postpone this decision for only a month or two. This would allow time for the study of some of the bee safety ordinances that have been established by of some our sister cities in this country. They have already faced the very same issues we are looking at here tonight. By enacting safety ordinances they have been able to require bee keepers to be responsible in providing water sources near their bees and flight fences when they are near property lines. They have done this to help prevent a uncontrolled growth in their number of unmanaged bees. They have done this because they have looked down the road and taken the long view of helping and protecting the people of their cities.

Sirs and Ladies, I and the other responsible bee keepers of our city stand ready to work with you to help develop some recommendations for your consideration. I am certain we can have some proposals ready for you within the next (period of time) so you can have some well balanced safety regulations to protect the people of our city now and for their future. Thank you. 


Hallow, you will fine it much better to be willing to help work with them to craft some safety ordnances. That way you will have some input. You can obtain what you and others feel are "reasonable" requirements for bee keepers from other city ordinances. These bee keepers here will help you. Your city fathers and mothers are dealing with a hysterical segment of the population. They will be loud and unreasonable. You need to be the voice of reason and accept that they have to do something to stop the noise. This is not a discussion of reasonable and informed people.


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## GLOCK (Dec 29, 2009)

a dozen hives on a quarter acre lot
Way to many hives if you have neighbors that close .
I have 25 on 12 acres and they rule every thing in summer.
But then again I think you should not keep bees if you live in town.
People first .


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## TalonRedding (Jul 19, 2013)

This is Tennessee's Best Management Practice Policy. It's voluntary, but has a few good considerations for your situation. I'd show it to the council before the meeting. Good luck.

http://www.tn.gov/agriculture/forms/apiary/honeyBMPpolicy.pdf


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

hallow said:


> I am considering attending the meeting and possibly speaking up.
> 
> Any ammunition I could use or suggestions would be appreciated.
> 
> ...


Okay. You might not like this suggestion, but, go to the hearing and keep quiet. Don't identify yourself as a "keeper" or a "beek". Or, even as a beekeeper since you don't own any. Just be there as a witness and in support of those who do own beehives w/in your village.


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## Irmo (Jan 9, 2012)

It may be too short of notice right now but you can send a note to the state beekeepers association and see if they have an interest in appearing and offering input to the town. Here is a link to the officers page, it has email addresses. http://www.virginiabeekeepers.org/content/officers


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## Cascade Hunter (Sep 22, 2013)

Since when did Crowe become incorporated? I'm from that area and I don't remember any town government that can pass an ordinance. I don't remember 500 people there.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

> Since when did _*Crowe *_become incorporated? 

Maybe Crewe is different than Crowe?

Crewe VA has been incorporated as a town since 1888! Presumably you didn't live there before 1888.  :lookout: 
http://townofcrewe.com/About_Crewe_RL8B.html



A search of the Town of Crewe's website shows 3 document links regarding impending beekeeping regulations:
https://www.google.com/search?q=bee...j4&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8


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## drhaney (Jan 9, 2014)

Check your state laws, state laws trump city ordinances


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## Cascade Hunter (Sep 22, 2013)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> > Since when did _*Crowe *_become incorporated?
> 
> Maybe Crewe is different than Crowe?
> 
> ...


No, same township. Established in 1888; not incorporated then. My typing isn't so good. But I'm 70 years old.

EDIT: Jeeesus. Just read the links. Glad I moved. Can't think about living in a place where I can't have bees (or chickens) running loose.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Well, they did use the word "incorporate" on their website ....


> In 1888, residents of an area formally called Robertson’s Crossing decided to *incorporate *and the Town of Crewe was born.
> 
> http://townofcrewe.com/About_Crewe_RL8B.html


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## Cascade Hunter (Sep 22, 2013)

Beats the hell out of me. Richmond was incorporated only a few years before that. But it don't matter to me anymore. I don't live there.


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## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

Rather than banning, why not suggest a proposed By Law. 

A simple common sense one is from a thread. I'd add that providing a suitable water source is also required. A bird bath in full sun workds well. See following

http://www.newwestcity.ca/database/rte/6648bee.pdf

The thread link is below and lots of info

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?291864-beekeeping-not-allowed-in-my-town


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## winevines (Apr 7, 2007)

hallow said:


> The town I live in, Crewe, VA will more likely than not be passing an ordinance banning the keeping of bees. There will be a public meeting at 7pm on Monday, January 13th at the Crewe public library.
> 
> This apparently became an issue after someone kept around a dozen hives on a quarter acre lot and several neighbors complained that they were afraid because their children were allergic, or that the bees were a nuisance - disturbing family gatherings, swarming humming bird feeders and making it difficult to use a kiddie pool which was the nearest source of fresh water..


 12 colonies on .25 acre may be a lot in a suburban area of .25 lots- Other laws in counties in the State (Prince William, Fairfax) allow up to 4 per 10,000 feet- with 2500 square feet needed for each extra hive. The State also has Best Practice Management guidelines.
Most places have nuisance laws which in a situation like this make more sense than banning beekeeping. I can send you what some other counties in Virginia have on the books- I believe zoning has been addressed recently in several other places including Roanoake, Norfolk, etc.


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## Edymnion (May 30, 2013)

drhaney said:


> Check your state laws, state laws trump city ordinances


This. There are state laws that make it illegal to prevent beekeeping, and several that actively say that if you register your apiary that you are immune to any lawsuits from damage caused by the bees. If you're in one of those states, you could always bring up that if the ordinance passed it would open them up to multiple lawsuits for violation of state law.


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

Legislative Liaison: Lannie Ballard
E-mail: [email protected] is the Virginia State Beekeepers Assoc liaison for legislation. Please contact her to see if she can provide any guidance.

Here is the link to the codes on beekeeping for Commonwealth of Va. http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+TOC03020000044000000000000

Good luck and let us know how it turns out.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

winevines said:


> Norfolk


Correct. In 2011 Norfolk reversed a long standing ordinance against keeping honey bees. So far, so good. Gotta believe that if Norfolk can do it so can Crewe.


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## angusbangus (Jan 7, 2014)

This is a major generic reaction to a minor specific problem. The person who thought keeping 12 hives on 1/4 acre should be coached... should also not be allowed to create a nuisance (which could have been dealt with face to face rather than bringing down the power of the "state"). I would speak up at the meeting, and keep it in those terms... this is an isolated incident that needs to be addressed with a wayward individual who is willing to correct his behavior rather than restrict everyone in the town.


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## D Semple (Jun 18, 2010)

Went through this with Mundelein, IL last year.

Take a copy of another cities more reasonable ordinances with you when you go to the meeting to offer up an alternative solution. 

Hastings Nebraska is one that I know about that would be a good choice. You can go to their city web pages to get a copy.


Very important to make sure beekeeping is the only thing being considered when voted on. 

Good luck. ...Don


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## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

drhaney said:


> Check your state laws, state laws trump city ordinances


Not true in issues regarding Zoning at all.......

If your going to add input you might mention that maybe it should be a reasonable limit... also pint out that if its typical there are already 5-7 wild hives per square mile. and that without a reasonable level of bees, nobodys flowers and trees are going to get pollinated properly....

And What Ever you do don't mention being overrun by Africian bees if they ban them


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## GaSteve (Apr 28, 2004)

First, fight with information not with anger. And it helps greatly to have numbers. When Perry, GA considered banning beekeeping in the city, it was out of a panic reaction from a neighbor. When about a dozen beeks showed up at the city council meeting, they responded with "Do all of you really keep bees?". Then the scenario changes from dealing with one wacky bee guy they could pick on to a block of voters made of beeks and nature lovers. Educating the city leaders is the key. 

The press is also a great tool in your toolbox and can elicit a very large positive response from a voting public. See the link below about the situation in Perry, GA. The reporter didn't get everything right, but it was enough. In the end, the city allowed beekeeping with some restrictions like a maximum number of hives per acre and free registration.

It's not carte blanche - but remember while the rules are restrictive, they also provide very important legal protection for urban and suburban beekeepers when the next neighbor complains. A good compromise - in my opinion.

Above all as beekeepers, take steps to be a good neighbor. See the following guidelines from Bee Culture.

http://www.macon.com/2012/09/22/2187185/perry-considers-regulations-as.html

http://www.beeculture.com/content/No 6-1-10.pdf


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## johng (Nov 24, 2009)

See if you can contact a member on the NYC bee club. They campaigned the city to allow bee keeping a year or two ago. They can probably give you so material that will help you out. I would also contact every bee club in the area to see if they can send members to show up and speak. If you don't get some people to show up and speak they may very well ban bee keeping. The squeaky wheel gets the oil.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

You probably wont be able to fight it (the actual ordinance), just try to have them make it reasonable. Tell them that the ordinance is a good thing (stay positive) and that the number of hives should be controlled. Then switch the debate as to how many hives per lot (or square feet) should be allowed. Most towns with a bee ordinance ahve a clause that limits the number of hives that you can have on your property, for good reason. 

The guy with 12 hives on a 1/4 acre lot is an idiot.


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

GLOCK said:


> a dozen hives on a quarter acre lot
> Way to many hives if you have neighbors that close .
> I have 25 on 12 acres and they rule every thing in summer.
> But then again I think you should not keep bees if you live in town.
> People first .


I currently have 15 hives on 2.5 acres...most along the side of the house. Neighbours aren't aware of them and they rarely bother us. Between 2 and 4 PM of a warm afternoon the air is full of bees just in front of the hives...but they are focused on their own business. We have one hive on the patio..facing out...on occasion there will be a bossy bee that thinks it owns everything and dive bombs folks but not often enough to bother about.

Vancouver is a large city...folks can have 2 hives per regular sized city lot 60x120 ft.

Personally I think they are less annoying that those that run their outdoor sound systems at full volume.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

WBVC said:


> I currently have 15 hives on 2.5 acres


Which is 6 hives per acre. That is more than enough for a residential setting. If my community wrote an ordinace limiting bee hives to 6 per arce, I would be more than happy to comply. 

Incidently, I have a 1 acre lot and have kept up to six hives at a time. I find that for some reason 4 seems to be the number of hives that I am comfortable keeping. In a residentail setting, you have to show some respect for your neighbors. No matter how much you explain the wonders of honeybees and give out honey, people are not always going to be OK with the situation. If they are not OK, they do things like draft city ordinances and homeowner association covenents. 



> Neighbours aren't aware of them



Let's hope it stays that way, or you may end up in Hallow's situation.:shhhh:


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## D Semple (Jun 18, 2010)

Paul aren't you 1 hive over the limit, or are you grandfathered in? 


P.S. Don't be looking in my backyard :shhhh:


Don


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

D Semple said:


> Paul aren't you 1 hive over the limit, or are you grandfathered in?
> 
> 
> P.S. Don't be looking in my backyard :shhhh:
> ...


OP City limits extend to 183rd street. My house is located on the other side of the street about 200 feet south of the line. For now anyways.


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## winevines (Apr 7, 2007)

drhaney said:


> Check your state laws, state laws trump city ordinances


We did not find that to be the case when we worked on our county zoning. Even State or Federal Right to Farm laws don't help much.


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## hallow (May 6, 2005)

Thanks all, lot of great stuff here! I really hope that we can avoid an outright ban.

FYI, Crewe is a small town in Nottoway County about an hour South West of Richmond, VA, about 20 mintues east of Farmville, VA and about an hour west of Petersburg, VA, with a population of about 2k. It's an incorporated town, not a city. The neighboring town of Blackstone, VA is home to Ft. Pickett, the Virginia Army National Guard HQ. It's got a very small downtown and is mostly suburban in character but with a very southern and rural leaning. Its got a single newspaper, and the grocery store closed up a couple of years ago.


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## SunnyR2000 (May 9, 2012)

Contact your State Beekeepers Association and see if they can assist you. Ours here in Colorado is AMAZING and is ridding bans all over the state. 

Good luck.


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## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

The "kids will die of allergic reactions" is a powerful emotional argument. However for bee allergies, kids are in the lowest risk group. They must be sensitized first, and that predominantly only happens by adulthood. This is different than say, peanut allergies, where sensitization happens early by nearly daily contact with the allergen. 

The current "urban beekeeping" craze is going to provoke a fearful response. The new, inexperienced keepers are permitting lots of uncontrolled swarming. In southern California, manifestly Africanized Bees are being kept in backyards by naive or delusionary hipsters. My community had a "hoarder" that established 90 colonies on a 50x100 foot seaside lot. Insanity, the damage from which I am still undoing.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

JWChesnut said:


> The new, inexperienced keepers are permitting lots of uncontrolled swarming. In southern California, manifestly Africanized Bees are being kept in backyards by naive or delusionary hipsters.


I couldn't agree more! I see a potential train wreck coming for certain geographic regions. I think its critical for local beekeeping clubs to reach out as strongly as possible to get the inexperienced keepers training so that they can learn proper management skills and hopefully avoid serious issues.


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## philip.devos (Aug 10, 2013)

borncamp said:


> Allergies - America has 50 deaths per year from stinging insect allergies. Compare this to 34,000 traffic fatalities each year.


I would imagine that of the 50 deaths, most are NOT from honey bees. Unfortunately, with this kind of mania, emotion will probably carry the day, rather than truth. If truth were to rule, then swimming pools would be banned.

Phil


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## philip.devos (Aug 10, 2013)

I ran across this on the web.....http://dennishouse.wordpress.com/2008/09/10/beware-of-yellow-jackets/

If you do not care to look at this, here is an excerpt (sp?). 

"Deaths by yellow jackets are rare, but they do happen. About 50 people in the United States die every year from these stings. In many attacks people have severe anaphylactic reactions and have trouble breathing. More than a million people suffer some sort of reaction from a sting every year."


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

JWChesnut said:


> The current "urban beekeeping" craze is going to provoke a fearful response. The new, inexperienced keepers are permitting lots of uncontrolled swarming. In southern California, manifestly Africanized Bees are being kept in backyards by naive or delusionary hipsters. My community had a "hoarder" that established 90 colonies on a 50x100 foot seaside lot. Insanity, the damage from which I am still undoing.


True story. 


My neighbors have 4 gradeschool kids. One of the girls got attacted by a nest of yellow jackets after she stepped on it in the backyard. It was a pretty bad encounter with many stings. The part where she was crawling on her hands and knees across the patio and up to the back door was particularly gruesome (broken fingernails from clawing at the ground and abrasions from writhing on the ground in agony). The kid was really messed up. 

We were and still are good friends, but it was kinda hard to stand there across the fence and listen to her mom express concerns over the bee hives in the backyard. I gave the standard pro-honeybee/nothing to worry about concept, but the "danger" will never go away in the back of her mind. I have told her on a couple of occasions that if they ever have a problem with one of their kids getting stung by a honeybee, I remove the hives from my backyard. I am not even going to attempt the "how do you know it was _my_ honeybee?" argument, the hives will be moved.


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## blueline (Mar 15, 2010)

Our Area Planning was considering the same thing a couple of years ago. I got busy collecting information from the internet, Ordinances from bee friendly communitees, best practices from I believe Virginaia, Florida, and Tennesee or Kentucky, and many, many articles about bees beeing kept in places such as New York City, Chicago, and San Francisco to name a few. I took all of the information to Area Planning prior to them having any public meetings. I also Contacted 3 different bee clubs in my general area and Talked to their Presidents, who in turn sent out emails to all of their members providing them with the phone number to the zoning board. I also contacted 4 colleges in our area and talked to their Entomologists. Long story short...Within a week the head of the Area Planning called me back and asked me to please call off the dogs, and admitted that they had not done any research before starting on the ordinance, but after reading what I had provided, speaking to numerous irate beekeepers, and the Entomologists, they had decided to scrap the ordinance. If you like I will see if I still have that information on my computer and e-mail it to you, just PM me your email address. 

Good Luck
Blueline


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## hallow (May 6, 2005)

Thanks everbody, but they already had their minds made up. 

If more residents turned out maybe they could have been persueded (but probably not). I was the only one. 

They had their hearing and passed the ban. Vote was as expected, 5-2. Now its either get involved in local politics and get those 5 replaced (would probably take years), move somewhere else (dont have the money for that) or put a hive somewhere else (which is very inconvenient). Or just give up.

Been through a lot of emotions tonight - outside of computing this has been the only hobby that's held any interest for me, and I've been chomping at the bit for years to get started, only to have the rug pulled out from my under me. 

Oh. And these clowns amended the ordinance to include any kind of bee, not just honey bees, including native and solitary bees.  Anybody raise yellow jackets? Because apparently that's legal...


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Actually, you don't need 5 replaced. Since there are 7 total, all you need is 2 replaced. That is, of course, replace 2 out of the 5 that voted against bees. Also, I would contact the 2 that voted in favor and offer thanks for their efforts. You never know when this might come up again.


You could try putting an ad in your local Craigslist to see if someone with rural property outside the town limits would like to have bees - talk up pollination. You might be surprised at what you get offered. Also, have you checked with a local beekeeping club?


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## TalonRedding (Jul 19, 2013)

Along with what Rader suggested, I would even ask around for farms to put bees on in exchange for honey. I have two bee yards on local farms, and all the farmers asked in return was a couple quarts of honey. Word has gotten out I believe, because I have had a couple others out of the blue ask me to put some bees on their places for some honey in return. They obviously like the bees too. There is certainly no need for you to give it up! Let your town know that you are a beekeeper and that you will retrieve swarms and colonies. You would be surprised at how many people you can win over that way. You'll be a local hero.


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## disc999golfer999 (Jun 9, 2013)

Here is the discussion from the Town of Crowe regarding their bee issue: http://townofcrewe.com/Town_Council_Minutes.html  October 16 session


> Mayor Simmons opened the meeting with 4 public hearings. The first public hearing was to enact an ordinance that regulates the keeping of bees within the town limits of the Town of Crewe, Virginia.
> 
> Mike Carney of Blackstone voiced his support of keeping bees in town. He felt the requirement to be a master beekeeper was a bit much stating he has been a beekeeper for 17 years and is not a master beekeeper. He stated the proposed ordinance would make it difficult for anyone to keep bees. He offered references for further education and ideas for keeping bees in town.
> 
> ...


Nobody claims they even got stung or anything... It must just be their Bee Phobia.


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## NY_BLUES (May 14, 2009)

GLOCK said:


> a dozen hives on a quarter acre lot
> Way to many hives if you have neighbors that close .
> I have 25 on 12 acres and they rule every thing in summer.
> But then again I think you should not keep bees if you live in town.
> People first .


Sorry but I have to disagree with what you said. 12 hives on a quarter acre is far less than what any commercial beek will have in any of their yards. its not about the quarter acre, its about the forage area and how many hives that it can support. not one forager from those 12 hives is going to spend its entire life solely on that quarter acre lot. I would say that I wouldn't keep 12 hives in an area like Washington DC or NYC on a quarter acre, but where I live, I have that many plus in a village and the neighbors like having them around. There hasn't been so many apples on the trees or gardens that produced as much in a long time.
And if keeping bees in town is what you want to do, and there is no law against it already, go for it, this is America, not Communist Russia, we have freedoms, not privileges.


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## disc999golfer999 (Jun 9, 2013)

Town of Crow Contact Us form:

http://townofcrewe.com/Contact_Us.html

We can let them know our opinion.

Crewe Municipal Building
125 East Carolina Avenue
Crewe, VA 23930
(434) 645-9453


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

I am *not *in favor of outright bans on keeping bees on city lots.

But note that 1/4 acre lot is equivalent to approximately a 110 ft square. If you stick a house in the middle of the lot, the hives cannot possibly be further than about 75 ft from any neighbor's property.

Its not too surprising that a dozen hives that close to neighbors may get them riled up.


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## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

A full acre is 208.7 feet on a side and 43,560 square feet.

1/4 acre = 10890 square ft or 104.4 ft per side.


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## disc999golfer999 (Jun 9, 2013)

I missed a topic of conversation among the council members:



> *Council Member Fisher stated he felt a fatal bee sting would make everyone look bad. Discussion followed*.


 http://townofcrewe.com/Town_Council_Minutes.html


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

mgolden said:


> 1/4 acre = 10890 square ft or 104.4 ft per side.


Absolutely right! I did the math then screwed up writing the post. :lpf:


So with a house taking up say about 1500 sq ft in the middle of the lot, there is still only about 75 ft to the neighbors property.


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## D Semple (Jun 18, 2010)

Just like hogs in confinement. When you get to many people in a confined area they all start chewing off each others tail.

Don


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

hallow,

Laws and regulations are constantly changing - don't give up too easily. There used to be a law against beekeeping in NYC, too.
----

Heck, I'm on a property, that is almost one acre. At times I have kept more than 50 colonies on my, almost acre, yet my three closest neighbors, separated from my property by only a chain-link-fence, didn't even know I had any bees, until I gifted them honey. One neighbor has several dogs, another has a horse, none of them have had any issues with my bees. 

One neighbor, at the time we moved in, had an older mobile home parked at the rear of their property and immediately adjacent to ours. This mobile home was host to an extremely large colony (they had always been aware of this), which was living, partially exposed, on its underside. I'm sure that colony, was responsible for at least five swarms that moved into our idle equipment, and many others which I was unable to successfully hive, before the neighbor finally had that old mobile home removed (it was there for at least six years after we were here). We miss that old bee colony.


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## RudyT (Jan 25, 2012)

Joseph, thank you. You are so eloquent you had me wishing for a mobile home next door. maybe a bee tree would be better.
Fear and anxiety are powerful motivations for some folks.
The cure is information (and for many, faith).


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## mike bispham (May 23, 2009)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> So with a house taking up say about 1500 sq ft in the middle of the lot, there is still only about 75 ft to the neighbors property.


A house of 1500 sq foot' has a side of nearly 40'. 104' minus 40' = 64'. Divide by 2 to get the amount each side = 32'



Rader Sidetrack said:


> -- Victor Hugo -- "Common sense is in spite of, not the result of, education.”


Maybe common sense is the way to go, eh Graham?

Mike  XX


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

Joseph Clemens said:


> Heck, I'm on a property, that is almost one acre. At times I have kept more than 50 colonies on my, almost acre, yet my three closest neighbors, separated from my property by only a chain-link-fence, didn't even know I had any bees, until I gifted them honey. One neighbor has several dogs, another has a horse, none of them have had any issues with my bees.


I have an acre lot and without a 6-foot tall privacy fence around the entire peoperty, I cant imagine the neighbors not noticing 50 hives. 

How/where do you hide them? 

My 4 hives are behind a shed, but from the right angle you can see one of them from the street. Plus there is the bee-suit thing that people tend to notice.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

So Mike, how far away from the neighbors' property are *your *bees? :scratch: More than 75 feet? :gh:


Yes, I botched the math. 

Regardless, putting a dozen hives within 32 feet of the neighbors' property is even _more _likely to get the neighbors riled up to seek a political solution.

.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

Nabber86,

I have my nucs and queen rearing, in my front yard, with my house behind them (on their North side), and they're beneath a large mesquite tree, with a six foot tall piece of shade cloth on the East and South sides, and several groves of bamboo on the West side.

My full-size colonies are in the back yard, behind a couple of sheds (which puts the sheds on their South sides), and with six foot tall shade cloth walls on the other three sides.

The shade cloth is as important for disguising the presence of the hives, as it is for actual shade and to redirect their flight paths, up, up, and away.

I maintain my colonies with easy to manage bees. I keep a veil handy, but usually work my colonies in nothing more than shorts and a T-shirt. A bee-suit would be more dangerous for causing heat related injuries, than as a protection from bees.


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