# think next year ill put the traps lower



## mlanden (Jun 19, 2016)

From my limited experience with swarms: of the 3 I've seen, 1 was in a bush and was only 5' up. The other 2, in small trees and were only ~ 6-7' up. The trap I've had luck with was .... 6' up. I know the conventional wisdom is 12-15', but I'm sorry -- I don't buy it. Lately, a lot of long-time beeks are telling me they *never* put a trap higher than they can easily lift (with or w/o a little step-ladder). Safety 1st -- and I don't wanna break my neck corralling some bugs. I know people who devise pulleys, lifts, prayer, etc, but .... I'll stick to the safe and easy method. There're plenty of bees in the sea, and if you don't nab one swarm, you'll nab another. One long-timer says he puts his traps in _window sills_ of abandoned houses/barns, and does well. Easy access. Best-o-luck .....


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## aran (May 20, 2015)

thanks mate...yup after yesterdays precarious struggles 15 feet up a ladder with a bloody trap above my head Im with you. Ill not be bothering with putting em up that high again.
Im 45 years old...im not gonna bounce as well as i did in my 20s should i fall.

I see a ton of potential places around my properties to place more traps but i guess ill see what happens with these 6 this year. Making the traps was half the fun for me so ill likely make a few more over the summer.


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## Kcnc1 (Mar 31, 2017)

Aran, this is my second year of bk, 1st year of placing traps. I read a study by (?] someone at Cornell that tested various sizes and heights for trap placements. The optimal size was approximately equal to a deep, and the best height was 15 feet. That said obviously other sizes and heights work ( there was an interesting post here from someone who found a swarm in a suitcas on the ground). 

My intention was to go 15 feet, but reality set in as I tried. I only have a 8 ft ladder and there was no way I was either going to stand fully atop it to place it or try to take it down when full. So I compromised and went about 10 ft with three different traps. So far no activity, but I’m hopeful.

Ps I made one with the board to hang it from and ended up not using that either. Just ratchet straps.


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## tech.35058 (Jul 29, 2013)

#1
"All have 1-2 frames of old brood comb and 3-4 foundationless frames with wood starter strips. ( where does one buy wax starter strips from????)"

For my foundationless frames, I use wood strips that I paint with melted beeswax, or cut strips of ( unwired ) wax foundation that I secure just like it is a full sheet. I also add frame wires or fishing string lately, or other comb supports that I havent tried yet.

#2, before you set your bait hive, figure out how you are going to handle a now heavy box full of posibly angry, stinging, flying insects. If you can't handle it to move it, put it some where else.

Good luck, & happy trapping ! CE


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## Eikel (Mar 12, 2014)

No higher than you're comfortable, not worth more than that. Caught too many at lower heights than worth trying to learn to fly from the taller locations.

Fair warning, swarms are addicting; some here chase swarms like an addled dawg chases cars.


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## Eikel (Mar 12, 2014)

Dr Thomas Seeley is the guy at Cornell, he's put out a lot of good research and books.

When I attach a box to a tree trunk, I lag screw a 18-24" 2 x 4 to the box with a dado cut into the bottom and a large hole at the top. I run a ratchet strap though the dado and loosely secure the box to the tree, shim top or bottom to level side to side and tighten the strap. Level front to back and add a second strap.








The large hole is handy for slipping a strap through for lifting and lowering.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

buy some of the cheap tree stands at dick's(most are around 15 ft) when the are on sale after hunting season, getting the trap down can get a little bit interesting if you don't check them regularly.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Anything I had that I could not retreave with both feet on the ground, I lowered.
The three swarms that came out of my own hives landed in a giant cedar tree and landed at about 5 or six feet, even though they had a choice. I did one year of pretty high traps and did not catch anything. Never again.
Cheers
gww


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## Swarmhunter (Mar 5, 2015)

Catch just as many swarms every year at 6 ft high as I did at 15 ft high. Not safe fooling around up there. Use full box of frames (8 frame Med. ) So nice to just lift those frames out and put them in their new box. Woodland edges always my best. Have Fun!
Jerry


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## fatshark (Jun 17, 2009)

tech.35058 said:


> #1
> "All have 1-2 frames of old brood comb and 3-4 foundationless frames with wood starter strips. ( where does one buy wax starter strips from????)"
> 
> For my foundationless frames, I use wood strips that I paint with melted beeswax, or cut strips of ( unwired ) wax foundation that I secure just like it is a full sheet. I also add frame wires or fishing string lately, or other comb supports that I havent tried yet.


They use plain wood starter strips just as well as beeswax-painted or wax starter strips ... just one old brood frame is sufficient as well, and means fewer to rotate out in due course. Put the old frame against the sidewall to maximise the apparent internal volume and force the swarm to build out in one direction.


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## Blue Monarch (Dec 20, 2017)

aran said:


> Im 45 years old...im not gonna bounce as well as i did in my 20s should i fall.


Isn't that the truth. Amazing how the mindset changes as we age. No longer invincible!


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

All things equal you will catch more swarms the higher you go. It does not mean you won't if it's on the ground, you can catch swarms almost anywhere using almost any kind of equipment. If there is not a lot of competition from old oak trees or cracks in old houses than anything will do. Add LGO and brood comb make the biggest difference and you will pull swarms away from those other location. 

I don't climb a ladders very often. I find a tree and select a branch, throw a roll of 200 lbs trout line (from Walmart) over the branch run it though the eye screws and under the box hoist it up tie it off on the trunk of the tree. when I was trapping I was hanging 50 boxes, don't have much time to play around need to get it hung and move to the next one as quick as possible. I was catching 33 to 50 percent success, in a few years I had too many bees, I quite trapping, now I just set traps in my apiaries.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

I don't dissagree with flower planter or tom seeley that the bees preferance given a choice might be higher. I just say that I tried higher and it did not increase the odds well enough for the work involved. I make little platforms and screw them to the tree and slide a box on it. If a person wanted to not have nails and fasteners then the rope or straps could be better. I do mine this way cause it is cheepest and easiest for me. I don't have to carry a ladder I can build platforms with scrap and I can set a box and take the box with a swarm in it all in one trip. It seems like you are getting free bees but there is some work and money involved and so not being the best still might be better. I have put some in deer stands and if I would have caught something I would have had to get a rope to lower or something cause the traps are just too awkward to be climbing with when I can do good enough with out it. I am not as strong as I used to be and I fell off a ladder twice last year building a pole barn and I am just done with climbing if there is another way. In trapping there is one good enough. 5 or 6 feet is plenty.

This is not a put down to others that do it thier way that may even be better. This is just my way using my math of imput to what I get in output.
Cheers
gww


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## R_V (Aug 20, 2016)

In February my 1 trap started about 20' off the ground (partially because I could see it out the window at that height). 
It constantly had a few bees going in and out on every warm day. 
About Mid March I saw so much traffic that I thought I had actually caught a swarm.
So that night I went up the ladder and put my ear to the box and could hear some buzzing so I brought it down and placed it in it's spot.

The next morning on the way to work I stopped to look at it and saw zero activity.
I opened it up and 1 bee flew out. So that afternoon I placed it on the same tree but only as high as I could reach and had my son put a nail in tree for that height.

Again lots of activity but no takers then around 1pm on 4/1, I looked out the windows and saw a huge swarm in what looked like a bee funnel cloud flying around the trap. Within a half hour they all entered the trap. detailed here. It was awesome to watch.

I opened the lid yesterday to put on an inner cover feeder shim and filled out the rest of the frames. It was booming with bees.


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## aran (May 20, 2015)

Im with all who have said bugger that to high placement of the traps. I guess if i were still in my 20s and hadnt had C-spine surgery in the last 18 months maybe i would be brave enough to do it again but it was REALLY tough for me to get that trap 15 feet up. God knows what it will be like if a swarm actually goes in it!

I just hope this works its all very exciting!

Do you all think i need more traps? I have a total of 6 out ( 3 on my 6 acre place) and 3 out on my 14 acre place.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Here are traps - just standing on the ground, as you can see. 
The taller trap was significantly more popular with the scout bees.
The less tall trap (even though used as a nuc before) - not very popular, when standing side-by-side.








Free standing traps maybe better off when tall in shape (kind of a free-standing hollow log standing above the grass, I guess).
Pretty much the entrance should be above the trash/grass level for easy entry.
I am making more free-standing traps for this year. 
Tall in design, 3-4 foot artificial logs, pretty much.


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## NAC89 (Jun 1, 2016)

After placing swarm traps and catching two swarms around 15ft high two years ago I will no longer be placing them any higher than I can with a step stool (roughly 8ft). After losing balance and having to land a 4ft fall with a box full of bees I decided a step stool is plenty.


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## aran (May 20, 2015)

im going to try and build and put up another 6 traps this weekend and all will be going at 6-7 feet or there abouts. Im going to try and place them no higher than i can reach above my head.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

aran said:


> im going to try and build and put up another 6 traps this weekend and all will be going at 6-7 feet or there abouts. Im going to try and place them no higher than i can reach above my head.


you have about a month normally b/4 swarm season around here, and since it's still snowing and below freezing and not scheduled to warm up until the end of next week, the bees are a bit behind, and so are the maples and grass and everything else including my bee work. When it does warm up, will get really interesting realllly fast though.


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## FrankBarbee (Aug 20, 2016)

3 of my traps were placed on Deer stands left in place by the hunters given permission to hunt, which was something they agreed to be able to hunt that property. Call my lazy, but if someone else will put up the mounting and all I had to do was lift the trap up to the top and strap it on, I am going to do it. the other was strapped to an abandoned highway sign pole. Got 3 out of 4 including the highway sign pole. Highway pole was about 5ft up, where the bracket to hold the old electric meter for the sign was left. Two of the deer stands were about 10-12ft up. The last was at 6ft, just enough to get the hunter over the brush in front of it.


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## PAHunter62 (Jan 26, 2011)

Place the traps at a height that is safe for hanging and retrieval. I place my traps around field edges, or on gas lines on family property. I have settled on the French cleat system. It makes it easy to hang without damage to the tree. I back my pickup to a tree, strap the hanger to the tree, then set my trap on and level it. My hangers have evolved to what is shown below:









The trap has the opposite angle and sits down onto the cleat:









Always level side to side to prevent cross comb.

As far as height - Mine end up around 8-10 feet off the ground. I stand on the side rail of my pickup to place the traps. I will probably start just standing in the bed of my truck as I get older. At this 8-10 feet height I've caught 15-20 swarms on a 50 acre area in a single season. I pulled my traps because I was out of woodenware .









Yes, they catch ...















Best part is, just lift the caught swarm off the hanger, drop a new trap on. Two years ago I did that at 10:30pm and caught another swarm at that location at 1:00pm the following day. 

PAHunter62


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## aran (May 20, 2015)

PAHunter62 said:


> Place the traps at a height that is safe for hanging and retrieval. I place my traps around field edges, or on gas lines on family property. I have settled on the French cleat system. It makes it easy to hang without damage to the tree. I back my pickup to a tree, strap the hanger to the tree, then set my trap on and level it. My hangers have evolved to what is shown below:
> 
> View attachment 38721
> 
> ...


This is AWESOME!! Can you please show some more detail about how the french cleat is made up? This seems WAY easier than what i did!!!


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## PAHunter62 (Jan 26, 2011)

aran said:


> This is AWESOME!! Can you please show some more detail about how the french cleat is made up? This seems WAY easier than what i did!!!



Look closely at the first and last pictures. Its basically a technique for hanging wall cabinets. Use good quality plywood, rip it on a 45 degree angle. Attach one piece to the hanger with the angle pointing up and out, the piece to the trap in the opposite orientation so they come together. You will want a piece of wood under the cleat on the hanger to support the box from wanting to tip inward (you can see this in the first picture). Another is provided below at a different angle:









Don't want to highjack the OP thread - which is on height of traps - My rule is safety comes first. I install from the bed of my truck, so it's easy to take them down, no need for ladders, etc. This also puts then out of hands reach of kids that may find them.

Most times, I will add another ratchet strap around the trap and tree to really hold it good (I have black bears in my trapping area - Have had 3 or 4 traps brought down by bears and destroyed).

PAHunter62


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## heaflaw (Feb 26, 2007)

FlowerPlanter said:


> I don't climb a ladders very often. I find a tree and select a branch, throw a roll of 200 lbs trout line (from Walmart) over the branch run it though the eye screws and under the box hoist it up tie it off on the trunk of the tree. when I was trapping I was hanging 50 boxes, don't have much time to play around need to get it hung and move to the next one as quick as possible. I was catching 33 to 50 percent success, in a few years I had too many bees, I quite trapping, now I just set traps in my apiaries.


I tried this but how do you keep the trap from swaying in strong wind?


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## aran (May 20, 2015)

Dont worry about the OP mate thats me!

Thanks for the help man im going to give this a try looks way better than what i have been doing. Are you using 1/2 or 3/4 inch plywood?


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

Opened this link from somewhere in this thread; http://www.horizontalhive.com/how-to-build/swarm-trap-free-plans.shtml

Plans say 5/8 and 1/4


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## aran (May 20, 2015)

Saltybee said:


> Opened this link from somewhere in this thread; http://www.horizontalhive.com/how-to-build/swarm-trap-free-plans.shtml
> 
> Plans say 5/8 and 1/4


Yup this is more or less how i built mine.


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## PAHunter62 (Jan 26, 2011)

aran said:


> Dont worry about the OP mate thats me!
> 
> Thanks for the help man im going to give this a try looks way better than what i have been doing. Are you using 1/2 or 3/4 inch plywood?


LOL, did not make the connection.

I use 3/4 inch - the more contact area, the stronger it will be. Two points on the exposed edges. I coat the exposed edges on the cleat with Titebond III glue. That seals the edges well and helps prevent moisture expansion you would get otherwise to extend the life of the cleat. I also rub the contact surfaces with soap before hanging the traps to help prevent them from sticking together (any other suggestions welcome). They still may stick a little the longer they hang. If they do, I just close the bees in with the entrance disk and give the bottom of the trap a good bump. The spacer under the horizontal cleat is really important too, without it, the bottom of the trap will want to tip inward towards the hanger. The spacer provides the support, which makes the hanger able to support more weight.

PAHunter62


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## heaflaw (Feb 26, 2007)

Looks like a big advantage to using a cleat is that one person can take down the bait hive. If the ratchet strap is around the bait hive itself, it would take one person to release the strap while another holds the bait hive.


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## PAHunter62 (Jan 26, 2011)

Yes, only takes one person to retrieve. I see the big advantages as:

- No tree damage - easier to gain permission from landowners, demo the hanger to them and show them you are not going to nail into trees.
- Fast to install, and easy to level - most trees are pretty plum already, but can wedge shims (sticks, whatever) under the hanger to level.
- When swarm is caught - easy to take down. 
- If you have more traps in reserve - just lift off the caught swarm, drop a new trap on the hanger, move onto the next. I've caught a second swarm in the same tree within the same day as taking one down. 

You do not need a strap around the trap too, I do it only because of black bears roaming the area where I trap. They will return to the same location the next year and trash a new trap even with no bees in it - they don't forget where they got a tasty meal. 

PAHunter62


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## aran (May 20, 2015)

gonna pick up some 3/4 inch ply and get started on these!


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