# Local Bee Club Loss Survey



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I can't see the chart. (could be being blocked here...) can anyone give a synopsis?


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## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

interesting numbers the one thing I take away from it, is that those who were good enough to split there own hives were better beekkeepers than those who bought packages or nucs.
Experince is a HUGE factor.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

At first I was amazed by the high numbers, but then rereading it this stood out to me. "" Surprisingly, 65 reported that they used no treatments at all.""
As mites are the prime killer of bee hives, I think the numbers are inline with the lack of treatment.

"Our two major sources of packages in San Mateo had similar rates of failure (Olivarez 80% and April Lance 78.9%). " <-- are you saying that the producers of the bees also had that high of a failure rate on there hive??

if that's the case I would spend more money and find bees from different suppliers, there bees are not the bees non treatment beeks should be trying.

I'll see if I can go back and see what the study they did in N.Y. showed and post it here, it was similar in that only small beeks supplied the information for the study.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Image links that start out like this: "file:///C:\Users\Oliver\AppData\Local\Temp", as in Ollie's post, are local to the computer Ollie is using at that time. Those images are not shared to the world - at least not under any _normal _file security scheme.

Put the images on Photobucket or similar, or upload them directly to Beesource.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

here is the N.Y wellness survey, a different format, but very few packages, no where near the amount of dead hives, and most of the beeks were hobbyist. and last year the winter was average.

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1bPwClBYqKnsY5j9_SlIuJ6EOSWCBCfWuCpTtmOaDr8k/viewanalytics


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

That's an amazing chart mike. That person who has been keeping bees for 14,000 years isn't you, are they?


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Here are the charts for the original post. Thank you Radar for the techie assistance.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

sqkcrk said:


> That's an amazing chart mike. That person who has been keeping bees for 14,000 years isn't you, are they?


Sometimes I feel like it, like during the winter when I haven't been stung lately, joints aren't moving as well.


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## Fuzzy (Aug 4, 2005)

Nice Job Odfrank,

As I suspected, it does tend to match my perception of mortality rate in the Santa Clara valley as well. And that is based on 10+ yrs of hive keeping. And while I won't dispute the data, I do not believe that there is any correlation to the package vendor as a primary causal source.

I say that, because MOST of the hives from packaged bees swarm by June each year. All of my hives are started from those same swarms that I capture. They go completely untreated, and always survive at least 2 yrs. 

Merry Christmas -- Fuzzy


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

>Nice Job Odfrank,

I am just the messenger, someone else did the survey.


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## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

5 out of 88 households used Formic, 5 out of 88 used thymol, apistan or Fumagilin-B (?).

65 used nothing + 10 used sugar. This predominance of anti-treatment decisions by suburban hobbyists are in line with my California experience. 

==(intemperate rant that will simply fall on deaf ears removed)==


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## dleemc1 (Dec 31, 2012)

I was surprised to see that swarms had a better survival rate than nucs, but I should have know that. just never thought about it. but that is my experience also


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## rhaldridge (Dec 17, 2012)

JW, how do you rationalize the data showing that the cohort whose hives all or mostly survived were almost all non-treaters?


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## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

Ray,
Hobbyist discover mites devastating their colonies in September. In a panic to preserve their investment they try a "treatment". Its too late, the hive is doomed. Treatments are not effective once the damage of mites has crossed a threshold. 

This is a survey of largely first-year newbies. The first year is a Halcyon one. It is in subsequent years that mites don't give colonies daylight.

The real damage is being done by the "no Treatment" guru's that claim without any corroborating evidence that mites don't affect hives in California.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

>The real damage is being done by the "no Treatment" guru's that claim without any corroborating evidence that mites don't affect hives in California.

One of our local gurus from Sonoma County stated that his bees didn't die from mites, but a cold snap! You know those nasty cold snaps we have out here are really tough on bees.


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## rhaldridge (Dec 17, 2012)

JWChesnut said:


> The real damage is being done by the "no Treatment" guru's that claim without any corroborating evidence that mites don't affect hives in California.


Who says that?

But it was an inventive rationalization. I enjoyed it.


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