# Cost of pine?



## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

If you want affordable hive materials, give up on the idea of getting them from big box stores. Depending where you are, local small mills (think portable mills) that cut local trees; free or very low priced "offcuts" from local manufacturers using wood for something else (remember, all boards in a 10 frame box are under 20"), and reclaimed/recycled lumber are options.

If you want to take advantage of the above, scrounge and hoard when you see cheap/free materials. Its a maxim that you won't be able to find them on the spur of the moment!  I collect unwanted wood year-round and use it to build woodenware in the winter. The price that I pay is not cash, but an investment of time.


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## ChuckReburn (Dec 17, 2013)

Pine from the big box stores is too costly to justify building boxes. I found a local source that sells cedar for less than HomeD wants for pine - cedar costs me $5/ medium box and I can reuse about all the scrap I generate- still that's hard to justify. I know some folks that go out your way to find cypress - I think a local mill will have your best prices.

Ordering 40 medium economy boxes from Mann Lake gets a price of $8.70 each (and no tax, shipping, or fuel). That's pretty hard to beat especially when you add in tool wear, electricity and time to the home made boxes.


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## KPeacock (Jan 29, 2013)

I make most of my boxes out of pine or cedar. the cedar comes from fence panels thatare damages in storms by falling trees. The pine boards i get 75% off i nthe cull lumber cart at one of teh big box stores. anything warped/cracked, or "bad" they sell at 75% off. It's not always the length i want, or the width i want, but for the price, it's hard to beat. I usually buy anything they have that 1X material. Sure, i might have to glue a couple of 1x6 together to make a deep, but I do this as a hobby, so I can afford to put more time into it than the more serious beekeepers.


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## DPBsbees (Apr 14, 2011)

I just bought 200 board feet of 1" x10", and 1" x 7", pine for $0.90 a board foot at a mill about 1 1/2 hours away. I do need to plane it down to at least 7/8" to make the deeps and mediums, but that's not too much work.


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## westernbeekeeper (May 2, 2012)

When factoring in wood, glue, and screws, I pay about $7 per assembled deep box.


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## rniles (Oct 10, 2012)

I found that making boxes cheaper than Mann Lake isn't so easy. But I do think that making bottom boards, inner covers and tops saves a lot of money - so I concentrate there.


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## Cub (Feb 14, 2013)

Rader>>>I collect unwanted wood year-round and use it to build woodenware in the winter. The price that I pay is not cash, but an investment of time. 

This is the method I use as well. I just built 12 mediums for around $2 each, only paying for screws, glue, and paint. But, I still can't make myself use oops paint and odd colors.


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## johng (Nov 24, 2009)

Builders First source has 1x8s for .72 cent a board foot. I think they are a national company. 84 lumber also has decent prices. Home Depot and Lowes are way too high. I was thinking the same thing as you until I started shopping around. You may find a gold mind at a local saw mill. Unfortunately we don't have any close to us.


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## jamneff (Mar 5, 2012)

I can get 1X8 for $.45 LF and 1X12 $1.00 LF here in Pa www.buildingmaterialspa.com/pine-lumber/


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

compared to home depot's #2 pine, mann lake's budget boxes are cheaper and made with better lumber.


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## westernbeekeeper (May 2, 2012)

I pay $5.89 for the wood (for a deep), $2.50/lb for the 2" screw, and then $17/gallon for Titebond 2. I get a very good box from what I do.


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## Hautions11 (Jun 20, 2013)

I cut a lot of storm damaged trees and when I find nice logs I use my Alaskan set-up to make some lumber. It is not free, but pretty cheap. 20" wide 10' long ash. Buying at my local box store does not work.








Wow, I wonder how I got my daughter to help! :applause: 

Like a lot of projects, building boxes is only worth it if you find it fun or entertaining. In the winter, it keeps me out from in front of the TV!


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## burns375 (Jul 15, 2013)

I buy #3 pine from lumber #84, they arn't the nicest looking boards, but with a little sorting you can find keepers $0.59 a foot. Costs be about $4.25 a deep box painted. Time will tell how the lumber holds up over the years. So far im more than pleased at 4 boxes for the price of 1. 

As others have said stear clear of big box stores, look for scrap, used lumber, or mills. From mills you can get rough cut pretty cheap, to mill it usually not cost effective, make sure you get kiln or solar dried. Stear away from green wood.


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## KevinR (Apr 30, 2010)

My cypress boxes cost roughly 2.5 - 3 bucks per box for mediums. But there is labor/heartburn in making them yourself.

If I was buying in bulk, I probably wouldn't go through the trouble.


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## Colino (May 28, 2013)

Gilligan;1055088
Problem is compared to Mann Lake econo boxes at $10 each I'm having a hard time justify building boxes... Maybe tops said:


> Gilligan, are you including shipping? Because for me shipping is a killer. Beemaid wants $11.25 a box unpainted and unassembled for $414.00, plus tax $20.70, plus shipping $326.78 for a total of $777.82. Include frames for $296.00 plus tax $24.32 , plus freight $190.00 and my total cost for 36 would cost me $1288.32 or once the smoke clears $36.00 a box unpainted and unassembled. For my 36 boxes I built with scavenged lumber it cost me around a hundred dollars,(if I don't include my Long Lang, KTBH and swarm traps), or 2.80 a box assembled and painted with frames. This is ordering from a company 5 hours away, I can't imagine what it would cost me ordering from Mann Lake.


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

colino; mann lake pays shipping most orders over $100


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Hautions11 said:


> View attachment 9058
> 
> 
> Wow, I wonder how I got my daughter to help! :applause:


She wants the keys to the car!!!


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

> mann lake pays shipping most orders over $100

Mann Lake free shipping offer applies only to the lower 48 states. _Colino _is in Canada, no free shipping for him!


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## KevinR (Apr 30, 2010)

Sounds like he needs to make a friend on the border then go pick up from them. *grins*


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## Michael B (Feb 6, 2010)

I build all of my own equipment. A 1x12x12' you can build 2 10 frame hive bodies. All these prices are from my local sources.

If I buy KD planed #2 pine it's $2.10/BF or $13 per box.

If I buy rough sawn KD #2 pine it's $0.98/BF or $5.88 per box.

If I buy rough sawn AD #2 pine it's $0.71/BF or $4.26 per box.

You should look for a source at a local sawmill or local lumber yard who has rough sawn. If you have a bench top planer you can save big money. If you have time you can save even more. I buy all my lumber in the fall and sticker the AD stock for 12 months. The moisture content gets between 7-10% it dry enough to use.


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

I second the cull piles from the big box stores. I am there all the time picking up supplies anyhow, so I check the piles they have all banded up. It typically does sell for 75% off, plus I get an additional 10% off. THAT is hard to beat.


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## Pete O (Jul 13, 2013)

For deeps and medium boxes I just can't justify the material and time involved; I order them. Finding decent lumber at Home Despot is very difficult what with warps and nasty knots that make for a huge pile of scrap. Everything else in a hive I make it myself since the only planks are 3 or 4 inch, exterior plywood is fairly cheap, and galvanized sheet steel is easy to work with for top covers.


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## Gilligan (May 8, 2013)

Thanks for sorting me out a bit... I guess I was just assuming big box stores were close to normal prices... I guess I was wrong.

Not sure if I have any mills around me but I'll have to look, we used to have an 84 lumber then it closed, then it opened again on the other side of town and now I think it's closed again.



KevinR said:


> My cypress boxes cost roughly 2.5 - 3 bucks per box for mediums. But there is labor/heartburn in making them yourself.
> 
> If I was buying in bulk, I probably wouldn't go through the trouble.


Where are you getting that cypress from for that cheap?!



Yes, Mann Lake has free shipping for me.


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## Colino (May 28, 2013)

KevinR said:


> Sounds like he needs to make a friend on the border then go pick up from them. *grins*


I'm working on setting up something with a mini storage facility in Sunburst Montana. They are only about 2 hours away.
Colino


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## burns375 (Jul 15, 2013)

The all medium thing is great and all, I understand the weight issues for older folks and the need for uniformity. Alot of people seem to be going that route, but they fail to releaze the cost increase due to extra frames required, also additional equipment to store and hall around. 

If cost is kind I would look into all deeps. 2 deeps equal 3 mediums, if you purchase frames + foundation ends up costing approximately 25% more for all mediums for the same amount of comb. If you go foundationless only 10% more 

There is generally no cost difference on medium vs deep frame, there is a cost break on medium vs deep foundation but the scale is not equal to the increase in comb.


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## CajunBee (May 15, 2013)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> Depending where you are, local small mills (think portable mills) that cut local trees; free or very low priced "offcuts" from local manufacturers using wood for something else (remember, all boards in a 10 frame box are under 20"), and reclaimed/recycled lumber are options.


THIS !
I have a local mill that cuts sinker cypress (cypress that has been sitting on the bottom of a local river). He very often has cutoff slabs just over 2ft yet too short for other uses. He will cut and plane them then run through the kiln with the longer stuff.
Of course, I return the favor by working on his airplane.


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## Gilligan (May 8, 2013)

CajunBee said:


> THIS !
> I have a local mill that cuts sinker cypress (cypress that has been sitting on the bottom of a local river). He very often has cutoff slabs just over 2ft yet too short for other uses. He will cut and plane them then run through the kiln with the longer stuff.
> Of course, I return the favor by working on his airplane.


Hmmm, you know, you aren't far from me... Got any you want to part with/spare?


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

Our local Menard's (chain store out of Illinois) has #2 or #3 pine for $9.50 for a 1x10 10 ft long. If you save the rip and glue it to a $6.59 1x6, you can get boxes for about $3.50. Cheaper if you dig around in the "value lumber" pile and pull out half decent 24" boards for 69 cents, but not by a whole lot. 1x12s are more expensive, but still somewhat less than those from a supplier. You have to pick through the pile a bit, but it's decent stuff. Solid knots are fine, I won't buy anything with cracks, big or loose knots, or that's warped. It's enough of a pain to get the boxes right with flat lumber, I refuse to do warped stuff.

Lowe's and Home Depot are more expensive and I no longer buy lumber there. I also need to check our local quality lumber supplier, they are probably cheaper and will probably save me off-fall. 

Home construction site dumpsters are also an excellent "store" -- watch for nails. 

Peter


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## CajunBee (May 15, 2013)

Gilligan said:


> Hmmm, you know, you aren't far from me... Got any you want to part with/spare?


PM Sent


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## Silverbackotter (Feb 23, 2013)

Or local guys sell lumber on craigslist. Prices are just a touch better than menards. They are making money selling stuff to oil companies.


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## honeydrunkapiaries (Oct 16, 2013)

Colino said:


> Gilligan, are you including shipping? Because for me shipping is a killer. Beemaid wants $11.25 a box unpainted and unassembled for $414.00, plus tax $20.70, plus shipping $326.78 for a total of $777.82. Include frames for $296.00 plus tax $24.32 , plus freight $190.00 and my total cost for 36 would cost me $1288.32 or once the smoke clears $36.00 a box unpainted and unassembled. For my 36 boxes I built with scavenged lumber it cost me around a hundred dollars,(if I don't include my Long Lang, KTBH and swarm traps), or 2.80 a box assembled and painted with frames. This is ordering from a company 5 hours away, I can't imagine what it would cost me ordering from Mann Lake.


Yeah man in Canada we get absolutely annihilated on shipping. I tried ordering frames once and the shipping was 3 times as much as the actual cost of the product. Do they not have anyone around there that supplies? Even in Ontario most of the suppliers want about 18-20 a box, and 2+ per frame. Starts making it very economical to make your own.


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## noljohn (Jan 9, 2013)

I love making my own stuff as woodworking is my other hobby. I was buying rough cut cypress from a sawmill and my deep boxes were coming out at 3.50 just for lumber. When I was picking up some boards one day I notice bound bundles, about a pickup load and ask the owner about them. $20 a bundle. It's all their end pieces 2-4 ft long. Haven't done a full bundle yet but I bet I'm around the $1 range. The down side lots of labor, cutting edges off so I can glue them together so they are tall enough, sometimes planeing them for same thickness. Also there is more waste as these are culled boards to begin with. But I enjoy doing it.


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## Hautions11 (Jun 20, 2013)

Good old CL, running out this afternoon to buy 4. 1X12X14' cedar boards for $40. Less then $4 a box and plenty of off fall for bottom boards and hive stands. I have to work on my box corner jig now. Got to love scrounging.


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## Calbears94 (Jan 24, 2014)

I just built a new starter hive 2 deeps, 1 shallow, bottom board and top plus a 5 frame nuc hive out of 3/4 plywood from Home Depot for $25.... That is a lot cheapier and once I paint the outside nobody will be able to tell if pine or plywood....


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## mark williams (Jan 19, 2003)

Can't beat the price Calbear-,But you will need to do something with the ends it won't last long.
Don't want to sound like a know it all,But I've done it & learned.
Keep painting the end till it won't soak up anymore & it will last several years.,,,,,Mark


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Or "paint" the edges of the exposed plywood with Titebond glue.


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## mark williams (Jan 19, 2003)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> Or "paint" the edges of the exposed plywood with Titebond glue.


Didn't think of that,probably better than the paint.


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## Edymnion (May 30, 2013)

I just went to Home Depot yesterday to buy plywood to make 5 frame nucs/swarm traps out of. I got two sheets of 4'x8'x.5" chip board for $7 a sheet. Had them cut it into 2'x4' strips for me there in the store for free, brought 'em home and started making nucs. Counting the screws and woodglue I bought along with it, not counting the spraypaint I already had laying around, I worked it out as coming to about $2.50 per nuc that way. Link in my sig has details, if you're curious.

I wouldn't recommend making full permanent hives out of the stuff, but it was definitely worth it for some nucs/swarm traps that I don't expect to last more than a couple seasons at most.


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## Dave1958 (Mar 25, 2013)

When you buy rough cut do you plane it( I don't have a planer)? Is it already cured?


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## Michael B (Feb 6, 2010)

Dave1958 said:


> When you buy rough cut do you plane it( I don't have a planer)? Is it already cured?


Rough sawn can be either kiln dried of air dried. Most saw mills will offer planing. Usually just one side though.

Rough sawn is just that... Rough.

I have a planer and jointer so it's not a problem.


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## KevinR (Apr 30, 2010)

Keep in mind that Air Dried 4/4 lumber is only about a .25" bigger than stock wood.. If you compared the wood standard thickness, the "stock" equipment is only a little smaller...

You just need to make sure that you keep your inside dimensions correct... Then there is no reason the plane down the material.. Unless you want to or if your OCD compels you.. *grins*


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

sometimes it is cured. if it is dry and cut by a band saw mill it may be ok. most of the time it is a lot better to plane it.


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## Moon (May 7, 2011)

KevinR said:


> Then there is no reason the plane down the material.. Unless you want to or if your OCD compels you.. *grins*


I thought I read somewhere it is almost better to have the interior of the box rough. If the texture of the wood is coarse the bees will cover it with propolis to smooth it out, in essence wouldn't it be similar to compelling the bees to coat the interior of the hive with their own antimicrobial/antifungal agent?

*edit*

As an after thought to this I'm sure many of you like me have bees that don't require any extra coaxing to completely cover EVERYTHING in propolis; however, I am curious whether or not this is true of the rough walls compelling the bees to cover in propolis.


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

rniles said:


> I found that making boxes cheaper than Mann Lake isn't so easy. But I do think that making bottom boards, inner covers and tops saves a lot of money - so I concentrate there.


Me too. I can pickup at Dadant, so no shipping, no taxes. But I can make a bunch of tops and bottoms for the cost of a bought one.


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## burns375 (Jul 15, 2013)

Ross said:


> Me too. I can pickup at Dadant, so no shipping, no taxes. But I can make a bunch of tops and bottoms for the cost of a bought one.


No taxes? how? Your picking up at a brick and mortar, there should be taxes right?

I can make 4 deep bodies for the price of 1 dadant. They may not be as nice, but should last just as long...i should take pics.


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## Calbears94 (Jan 24, 2014)

mark williams said:


> Can't beat the price Calbear-,But you will need to do something with the ends it won't last long.
> Don't want to sound like a know it all,But I've done it & learned.
> Keep painting the end till it won't soak up anymore & it will last several years.,,,,,Mark


Thanks for advice I was planning on painting to protect the wood....


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

burns375 said:


> No taxes? how? Your picking up at a brick and mortar, there should be taxes right?
> 
> I can make 4 deep bodies for the price of 1 dadant. They may not be as nice, but should last just as long...i should take pics.


Bees and equipment are agriculture in Texas, so no tax. I buy 50 at a time to get the price break. I can't buy the wood around here for the price of pre-cut commercial grade.


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