# When does the old queen stop laying before a swarm?



## allrawpaul (Jun 7, 2004)

I have a hive in which the bees have made 10 swarm cups on the bottom of the upper brood chamber frames. The queen is still laying and she hasnt laid eggs in the swarm cups yet. How long before she lays eggs in the swarm cups? After she lays in the swarm cups, how long does she keep laying eggs before slimming down to swarm? Thanks!


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## Finman (Nov 5, 2004)

MAAREC: " Every hive makes swarms cup. It is not a sign of swarming. "

http://maarec.cas.psu.edu/PDFs/Swarm_Prev_Control_PM.pdf

.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

They mean nothing. They are just cups.


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## power napper (Apr 2, 2005)

allrawpaul--If the cell cups get an egg and the egg hatches, larva and then capped into a queen cell the queen in my observation hive keeps laying. My queen kept laying up until the day before they swarmed--she did not stop laying! Mostly my observation hive queens swarm a day or two before the new queen is to emerge.
Hope this helps!


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Assuming we are talking about swarming, and not talking about cell cups, I'm with power napper. She may cut back a lot on laying, but she will lay a little bit right up until they swarm.


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## allrawpaul (Jun 7, 2004)

Thats very good to know Power Napper and Michael, thanks! I was thinking that if there were a considerable delay between the cessasion of laying and swarming, you could split a hive without losing the old queen if you noticed it in time. It looks like once the queen lays in a queen cup, you have about a week to split before you lose the old queen. Is that correct? But it looks like once you notice egg laying has stopped, the queen has probably allready swarmed. Thanks for the link and info Finman!


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## NW IN Beekeeper (Jun 29, 2005)

[you have about a week to split before you lose the old queen.]

This was a very good question! 
I agree that the queen will probably not totally cease egg production. Books will tell you that it tapers from the day she lays in the queen cell up until about 4 days before the new queen emerges (or another way about 2 days before the old queen takes wing). Again, this is what the books say, but I'm with the guys above, it may not stop until she's actually gone. 

You're thought about having about a week is a reasonable and safe guess. Keep in mind however that there are times that "safer" than others when handling queen cells (this includes bumping the hive around as you might during a split). 

JEFF


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I was thinking that if there were a considerable delay between the cessasion of laying and swarming, you could split a hive without losing the old queen if you noticed it in time.

It's all about noticing in time. What you WILL notice is the brood nest is full of nectar (with capped brood scattered about) and the queen is laying a lot LESS.

> It looks like once the queen lays in a queen cup, you have about a week to split before you lose the old queen. Is that correct?

Yes. But you're more likely to notice the brood nest being back filled in time than you are to see the eggs in the swarm cells.

> But it looks like once you notice egg laying has stopped, the queen has probably allready swarmed.

She didn't stop. She left.


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## Waysouth (Dec 27, 2004)

I had an interesting experience a while back in the obs. hive - They had three queen cells capped and were running the old queen up and down the hive so she couldn't lay (trimming her down for flight) - I took out all three cells and three frames of brood - after about two weeks she started laying again and all is well  - I had never seen the bees stop the queen from laying before.


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## allrawpaul (Jun 7, 2004)

Thats interesting Wasysouth! Looks like the queen doesnt have much choice, and the control bees dictate the time to swarm! Thanks for the input Jeff and Michael. It seems that either she will lay less and less on her own, or the bees will prevent her from laying, or the filled brood nest will. Either way she will get skinny and ready to swarm.


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