# Can I use royal jelly from the health food store for priming cell cups?



## westernbeekeeper (May 2, 2012)

Hello all,
I found some organic royal jelly at the health food store, and I'm wondering if I can use it for priming queen cell cups before grafting. It is not quite pure, meaning has some other ingredient, but it is still totally organic. Should I, or should I not? Input, anyone? Thanks in advance.


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## arnoldhicks (Mar 13, 2011)

you never know where the jelly comes from.It could be from a deseased hive.Let the bees do there job they know what to do


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## westernbeekeeper (May 2, 2012)

I was thinking I would use mainly for the purpose of keeping the larvae moist during transit. The "wet towel" method did not work.  But if y'all thinks it is a bad idea, I won't do it.


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## cklspencer (Jun 21, 2010)

I would suggest gathering a few cells that are still full of jelly on day 6 when they cap cells. Just pull out a few of your smallest ones. I store the jelly in a little veil in the fridge so I have it if I need it. One cell full of jelly goes a long ways.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

I would suggest you use a Chinese grafting tool. Picks up the jelly with the larva floating in it. No need for priming.


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## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

Glorybee has royal jelly fit for bee consumption. It is a bit high on shipping because it has to go express. There are actually two types of royal jelly based on the glands in the head of the nurse bee used. Queen royal jelly is yellower than worker royal jelly


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## broodhead (May 30, 2009)

Save yourself the money, and if you decide to prime use yogurt.


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## westernbeekeeper (May 2, 2012)

Yogurt? Are you serious? If it actually works, I will try it.


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

most royal jelly on the market comes from china. enough said.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

westernbeekeeper said:


> Yogurt? Are you serious? If it actually works, I will try it.


You don't believe me do you youngster. 

180 grafts every 4 days with 45-48 of 48 grafts accepted on each cell bar frame, and no priming...nada, nothing...no jelly, no yogurt, no runs, drips or errors. Only hits.


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## westernbeekeeper (May 2, 2012)

I don't think you would actually lie to me, I was just incredulous. I need something to keep the grafts hydrated for 10 minutes during transit, and if that'll work, I'll use it. I just wanted to make sure it works.  Sorry if I made you feel bad, Michael and Broodhead.


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## Tazcan (Mar 25, 2012)

broodhead said:


> Save yourself the money, and if you decide to prime use yogurt.


Would that be plain yogurt or flavored/sweetened?


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## broodhead (May 30, 2009)

Plain yogurt will work just fine, it has been used for many years and will do great if you feel the need to prime. let the yogurt come to room temp before using.


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## westernbeekeeper (May 2, 2012)

Thanks for all the replies so far, guys.


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## Mtn. Bee (Nov 10, 2009)

westernbeekeeper said:


> Yogurt? Are you serious? If it actually works, I will try it.


Some beeks have good luck with yogurt and some not!
I am one that is not, hopefully it works for you!


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## Velbert (Mar 19, 2006)

when you are working your bees and find Queen cells collect a few and save them i will wrap a wet paper shop towel around them and put them in the freezer for later use.

once i get grafting started i will go to a cell builder with a 3 day graft and take one out and use it, its fresh. Some times i graft and take them to a different mating yard with a cell builder in the yard 20 minutes away it works great.


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## Solomon Parker (Dec 21, 2002)

I agree with Michael Palmer, I have been using a Chinese Grafting Tool and have had very good results with no priming. Best was 17/18.


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## westernbeekeeper (May 2, 2012)

Well, I found out this morning that one of my hives is queenless, and they have 19 active uncapped queen cells now. I went into the hive, found the best looking 5 cells, saved them, and scooped all the royal jelly out of the other 14 cells. Can I use this for priming? If so, how can I store it, fridge/freezer? 
Also, I had been using the chinese grafting tool, but the tongue kept and creasing, bending, and folding. Is there a solution to this? This was why I quit using it after the first 10 or so grafts.


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## WilliamsHoneyBees (Feb 17, 2010)

I use a chinese grafting tool, graft in my truck and shove the cells in an awaiting starter hive when I'm done. They aren't out for more then 10 minutes. No messy priming and no wet towels.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

The only reason I like to prime is I have a hard time getting the larva gently off the Chinese tool. I can scoop them up just fine, but if I get them just on the tip of the tool, there is little royal jelly. A little moisture in the JZBZ cup and larva on the tip of the tool is easier for me. Small paint brush works well too, but won't get much jelly. 
I've Been harvesting the jelly in the wild queen cells removed my cell starter with a straw cut on one end like a spoon. Scoop it out and squeeze into a tiny syringe I keep in my pocket. A very small needle and the tiniest drop in the cell cup is all I need to make the job easier.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I tried priming with royal jelly but I could not see any difference between the results and when I used the Chinese grafting tool, which, as Michael Palmer pointed out, picks up some of the royal jelly. Jay Smith who, being a student of G.M. Doolittle, started out priming ended up deciding that it did not help at all.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesbetterqueens.htm#Shortcomings of the Grafting Method

"We used to prime our cells with bee milk but, after careful examination, believe it was a detriment, for the first thing the bees do is to remove all the milk we had put in. Grafting in bare cells is better-or rather not so bad."-Jay Smith, Better Queens


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Ya, just my inexperience that needs priming help. I'll get the hang of it soon and will get the buggers off the tool without squashing them. Problem is I have a really good magnified light and I can get larva that have JUST hatched and have almost no royal jelly. I try to get them and that is that is the problem. Can't get them off the tool well.


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## virginiawolf (Feb 18, 2011)

View attachment 4068
Lauri, I had trouble getting the larvae off the tool last year as well. When you primed the cells did you get a better percentage of cells started? I am considering trying it this spring. I'm sure with experience I may not need the priming. I've never used it before and I've had ok success but I think it would help. I want to try it this year since I havent tried it yet. I would think it would work better if the cells were primed with royal jelly from another queencell because it will keep the larvae moist and also give the bees a jumpstart on feeding the larve, maybe not. I will practice with the chinese grafting tool as well this year too. I preferred the stainless grafting needle but maybe it needs to be smashed flatter so I can pick up more royal jelly.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

virginiawolf said:


> I will practice with the chinese grafting tool as well this year too.


Try it, you'll like it.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

AmericasBeekeeper said:


> Glorybee has royal jelly fit for bee consumption. It is a bit high on shipping because it has to go express. There are actually two types of royal jelly based on the glands in the head of the nurse bee used. Queen royal jelly is yellower than worker royal jelly


This is the first time I have heard anyone mention there is actually a difference in the jelly fed to queens and that fed to workers.

In looking for the Queen Clips I am ordering I have also looked at a lot of other products that can be gotten. A royal Jelly Pen is one of them. Due to the time factor I have not considered getting them but was wondering if anyone has heard of them or used them.

Westernbee I have seen suggestions for using distilled water to keep cells moist as well.

Keeping cells moist may be a big problem for me as well. I am thinking of making a chamber to keep the frame and queen cells in that will be more humid than our bone dry air.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Is commercial Royal Jelly real? I see it sold by the kilo for around $56 and can't believe even Chinese could make money producing it. It would take thousands of cells and hundreds of hours to collect that much. A supplier just mistakenly shipped me a few kilos of it and doesn't want it back because it is perishable. What should I do with it? What is it made of?


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

Doing just a bit of homework. I came up with this.
Some producers will add honey or beeswax to the jelly to act as a preservative. I didn't see anything that indicates actually diluting the jelly is a practice.

More importantly I found this.

Royalactin
The component of royal jelly that causes a bee to develop into a queen appears to be a single protein that has been called royalactin. Jelly which had been rendered inactive by prolonged storage had a fresh addition of each of the components subject to decay and was fed to bees; only jelly laced with royalactin caused the larvae to become queens.[5] Royalactin also induces similar phenotypical change in the fruitfly (Drosophila melanogaster), marked by increased body size and ovary development.

In other words the queen making "Stuff" in royal jelly is subject to decay. And had to be refreshed in order to produce queen bees from old jelly.


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## virginiawolf (Feb 18, 2011)

I will try that Chinese grafting tool.  I felt like I had better control with the stainless grafting needle but I am probably over thinking it. I saw a video once where someone was using the Chinese grafting tool and she was doing it extremely fast. I need to work on the technique.

Od I was wondering where all that Royal Jelly comes from too. I have seen it for sale as a beekeeping supply but I would be worried it would go bad or something or infect my bees or something like that. My wife got me Royal Jelly tubes of liquid that was a candy. You stick a little straw in an drink it. 
I don't know if this contains real royal jelly from bees or not.

http://www.efooddepot.com/products/...ral_liquid)__hypen__9_dot_9fl_oz.html#product


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

> I can get larva that have JUST hatched and have almost no royal jelly. I try to get them and that is that is the problem. Can't get them off the tool well. 

I try for the "just hatched" ones as well. But if there is a flow there is plenty of jelly. The nice thing about the chinese tool is it gets the jelly. If there is not a lot of jelly in the cell, it may be a dearth is the real problem and getting good queens when the larvae are underfed is unlikely.


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