# Help please - to diagnose disease



## Bunyabees (May 17, 2017)

I've done an inspection today and am very concerned about what disease could be present in my hives. I have 2 top bar hives. Firstly I should point out that I know I have chalk brood disease. I live in a sub-tropical area in Queensland Australia and we have had quite a lot of rain on and off over the last couple of months which might have contributed to this. I am in the process of re queening one of my hives and will do the other once I know the first has worked.

What I have noticed today is that there are a few largely capped brood bars that are looking quite old/dark (the caps) and just didn't seem right. I tore the tops off a couple of the cells at first and found that there were not developed brood inside. In most instances what I found was a white milky liquid (quite runny - not thick). In some instances there was some trace of remains of a larvae - again white in colour. I used a skewer to remove the contents from some of the cells and didn't find it to rope like AFB is meant to. I looked up the description of EFB also, but it does not seem to quite fit the bill. I tried to take a couple of pictures with my phone, but wasn't well prepared and they are not the best. I have however attached in the hope that this helps in diagnosis.

Is it possible this is just the chalkbrood and that the brood is liquefying before drying out to a mummy?? Any other suggestions as to what I should do/look for to confirm if it might be AFB or EFB?

Bit stressed so assistance would be much appreciated.

PS. with downsizing of the photos it is pretty hard to see anything - so I have now uploaded a couple of cropped ones with the hope of more clarity.














Cheers


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## Dan the bee guy (Jun 18, 2015)

Get it tested for AFB right away, mine caught AFB this year and if it's AFB you don't want to let it spread to other hives.


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## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

Study this and do the holts milk test:

http://www.bushfarms.com/beespests.htm#afb


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## Bunyabees (May 17, 2017)

Thanks Dan and Si. I've read about the holts milk test and will give it a go next time I am in the hive in a few days time.

The likelihood of me having AFB is thankfully looking very slim. What I have observed does not match any of the AFB signs.

Cheers


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## Dan the bee guy (Jun 18, 2015)

Take precautions don't use tools from one hive to the next. Go without gloves wash hands between hives. Have a propane torch to sterilize.


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

Typical rope of infected larvae infected with AFB measured 2 cm or more. 

As stated above, you should make a good diagnosis of what is happening and take all the hygiene precautions with the tools and protective equipment you use.


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

First, it's very difficult to diagnose diseases with a few photos. 

But, it doesn't look like AFB to me. You don't have the tell tale signs: greasy cappings, perforated cappings, sunken cappings, black tar like scale, pre-pupal larval tongue, brown/diseased/sticky/ropy brood. You may want to get it tested anyway, but you don't show any of the classic signs.

It doesn't look like EFB to me. EFB affects open brood, not capped brood. But you still don't have any of the tell tale signs: yellowish brownish twisted open brood, spotty brood pattern.

In fact, from the pictures, I don't really see anything wrong. Your cappings don't look weird to me at all. Sometimes early in the season the bees will reuse old wax/propolis so the cappings may look a little darker. But without being sunken/greasy they don't look suspect. It looks to me like you pierced some larvae that were healthy. If you opened the capping and found liquified brood, that might be one thing. But it looks to me like it was healthy (pearly white) and you pierced it with a toothpick. 

If the larvae are breaking down before pupating fully, it may be a virus. Although I haven't heard of that before.

Get it tested if you want, but I don't necessarily see anything wrong.


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## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

I must say I had the same thoughts as Specialkayme but did not have the courage to post it being still new.


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## Dan the bee guy (Jun 18, 2015)

When I first noticed something wrong the hive went from a perfect brood pattern to spotty in less than a week. Test for the worst and hope for the best. To


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

Specialkayme said:


> First, it's very difficult to diagnose diseases with a few photos.
> But, it doesn't look like AFB to me.


It also does not strike me as a typical rope of infected larvae with AFB. However, it seems very liquefied for a normal larva. But as you say through photo it is very difficult to make a safe diagnosis.

>> Test for the worst and hope for the best.
+1


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

When I first looked at the cropped pics it looked to me like a larvae swimming in pearly white royal jelly. 

Do the Holt's Milk test and set your mind at ease.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

I did not see anything that looks like disease. Looks like a smushed drone larva.
Pattern looks good.

>Do the Holt's Milk test and set your mind at ease. 
+1


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## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

> Position in life cycle[edit]
> The pupal stage follows the larval stage and precedes adulthood (imago) in insects with complete metamorphosis. The pupa is a non-feeding, usually sessile stage. It is during pupation that the adult structures of the insect are formed while the larval structures are broken down. The adult structures grow from imaginal discs.


Source: wikipedia


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## hex0rz (Jan 14, 2014)

I think you should start thinking about a mite count. PMS can exhibit symptoms of this nature.


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## Eikel (Mar 12, 2014)

Here's a bit of PMS


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

hex0rz said:


> I think you should start thinking about a mite count. PMS can exhibit symptoms of this nature.


I don't think they have mites in Australia.


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## hex0rz (Jan 14, 2014)

beemandan said:


> I don't think they have mites in Australia.


Oh i forgot...

Wonder what would happen if he did do a wash.


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## Bunyabees (May 17, 2017)

Haha - yep, no varoa here yet thankfully - touch wood.


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## Fivej (Apr 4, 2016)

Not only do they not have mites, they only have to touch wood rather than knock on it. J


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