# Queen Banking



## marcros (Jan 8, 2009)

Good Morning All!

Could anybody tell me more about queen banking, what equipment they can recommend and for how long queens can be banked for?

Also, do BZ EZ have a website of all their products?

Thanks
Mark


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I like the JZBZ cages and the plastic racks that Mann Lake sells to put them in. You can build (or I bought mine from someone on here) a frame to put them in. I like to set it up the day before putting the queens in. A couple of frames of brood and a couple of frames of honey each from different hives (for the confusion factor) and shake in about four more frames of brood (from different hives if possible). Then try to catch and back them all on the same day or two days. Once they've accepted those queens, it's risky to add more later. Better to set up another bank. I'm not recommending banking them for long periods of time, but I have, as an experiment, banked them for a couple of months and they started laying fine and withing a couple of days when put back in a hive. I think a lot of the problems people have with banked queens isn't so much because of the banking as it is because of the cages allowing their feet to get injured (screen cages instead of the JZBZ) and banking them before they actually are laying well. They should be allowed to lay for a couple of weeks first.


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## peggjam (Mar 4, 2005)

He used to have a website set up with hometown at aol, it appears that hometown has shut down, and he hasn't set another one up...


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## marcros (Jan 8, 2009)

Thank you.

Michael

Although you have said thay you tried banking for a couple of months as an experiment, typically how long do you bank queens for? would it be better to raise smaller batches more regularly than a large batch with a view to holding them longer?

Thanks again, this forum is very interesting
Kind regards
Mark


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

You can bank queens for a couple weeks using an excluder. Place the excluder on top of a strong cluster....cluster must be at the top of the hive. I use an old Root 7 wire excluder, because it has wooden slats to lay the cages on. Otherwise you can use thin slats cut on the table saw...keeps the cage screens up off the excluder. Place the screen facing down, so the bees can feed the queens. Place a wool or felt cloth, same size as the excluder, over the cages, followed by an empty super, and the covers. 

I've kept them a month this way, but it's best for short term banking.


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

*Banking*

Be sure to feed fumagillin syrup before and during otherwise you can infect all your new queens with nosema


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Although you have said thay you tried banking for a couple of months as an experiment, typically how long do you bank queens for?

I try not to bank them at all. I try to go catch them from the mating nucs and ship them, but sometimes I end up banking them for a week or two. Usually I'm trying to fill orders so they don't set around long.

> would it be better to raise smaller batches more regularly than a large batch with a view to holding them longer?

As I said, they seem to keep fine if they are in cages where they don't get their feet harmed (JZBZ). So do what works for your schedule.


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## One in Three (Jun 19, 2016)

Michael Bush said:


> >Although you have said thay you tried banking for a couple of months as an experiment, typically how long do you bank queens for?
> 
> I try not to bank them at all. I try to go catch them from the mating nucs and ship them, but sometimes I end up banking them for a week or two. Usually I'm trying to fill orders so they don't set around long.
> 
> ...



Can you use small nucs to bank a single queen each? How small can they be? Its OK with me if the nucs grow some.


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

One in Three said:


> Can you use small nucs to bank a single queen each? How small can they be? Its OK with me if the nucs grow some.


You certainly can. It all depends on the time of year you are wanting to do this. Easy enough with a nectar flow in the spring and early summer. A bit harder during a dearth as they tend to get robbed out. I do have some in 3 bar nucs to overwinter, but they have heaters in them. Last year tried two without the heaters and it was touch and go during late January. Research paper from 2003 said they got over 80% to overwinter in 5 frame nucs, but I think that was in Turkey and I'm not certain of their winter weather. It's pretty mild in this part of VA.


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

Check out Dr. Susan W. Cobey's website

www.honeybeeinsemination.com

From the home page, click on "learn more". Then look along the top bar for "resources" and click on it. Scroll down to:

*Cobey, S. (2005) A versatile queen rearing and banking system - Part II - conclusion: Use of the "Cloake Board" for banking purposes. American Bee Journal 145(5) 385-386*

You can download that and print it. I'd print both the first and second parts, and also the 21 page comparative study of instrumentally inseminated vs naturally mated queens - it is also an excellent read.

I run as many as 4 queen bank colonies for one of my mentors. Queens are usually mated and allowed to lay for one month, banked if there are too many queens, and cycled out of the banks and into increaser nuc's (full 10-frame deeps) within 16 days. The bank is just a convenient place to store them where they can't fight each other while we are rearranging bees, as the incubator is for queen cells and young virgin queens. They just free up bees, combs, and equipment so the cycle times can be aggressive, or so you can make a calendar day fit somewhere, somehow during the mad rush of queen season. It's good to have options.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Can you use small nucs to bank a single queen each? How small can they be? Its OK with me if the nucs grow some.

Of course. But then it's just a nuc, not a queen bank...


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## AZBEE (Jan 10, 2017)

Michael Bush said:


> I think a lot of the problems people have with banked queens isn't so much because of the banking as it is because of the cages allowing their feet to get injured (screen cages instead of the JZBZ) and banking them before they actually are laying well.


I have questions regarding queen's "feet getting injured" when banking queens in screened cages instead of JZBZ cages. I presume that this injury to the feet is caused by bees outside the cage biting the feet of the banked queens through the screen, resulting in disruption of pheromone trail from tarsal foot pads on the feet, and eventually premature supersedure. I have heard this claim for many years, but is there any documented study or evidence that this actually occurs? Further, is there any evidence that JZBZ queen cages prevent damage to queen's feet? I have not closely examined JZBZ cages in some time, but my recollection is that they still provide opportunity for workers to bite queen's feet. Great Topic. Thanks!


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

I've always placed the queen cages in a queen bank frame, hanging in the upper box above a queen excluder or Cloake Board. Foot injuries don't happen with a wooden floor. 

I make 5-hole queen cages so that they can hatch out of a queen cell, have 2 holes to live in, and a hole filled with queen candy / pollen mix.

The queen bank frame is also convenient to move the whole batch from the incubator to a bank hive.


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