# Dead bees (from a spray?)



## Seymore

The beard
Same hive, 3 days earlier


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## balhanapi

Oh man... That's heartbreaking. Hope u find out what happened and avoid it in future.


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## Scottsman

That has to make you sick, What was the proximity to the poison ?


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## Seymore

They were spraying on the road. The bees were setting back, less than 1/4 mile, more than 1/8 mile. 3/16. I think my other 2 hives were protected from denser trees. I just hope I don't go home and see more of the same on my other two hives!


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## FindlayBee

Have the bees tested. Find out who did the spraying. Chances are the people who sprayed are liable for the damage to your honey bees. If you are required to register your hives and you are, you most likely have a way to recover your losses by going after the applicator of the spray.

The hives might be contaminated with chemicals not approved for use on or in food.


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## Seymore

I had said to myself well, at least I can use the comb. Then someone in another thread mentioned the contamination, which I hadn't thought of. Really, really, really a waste. How do you attribute a cost to THAT? Ugh.


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## jrbbees

In your claim the entire hive is a write off. bees and hardware.


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## Seymore

Wonder who I would contact? The state apiculturist?


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## FindlayBee

Contact your state apiarist and they should be able to help.


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## Seymore

Thanks Nick. Will do.


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## Kazzandra

Seymore said:


> They were spraying on the road. The bees were setting back, less than 1/4 mile, more than 1/8 mile. 3/16. I think my other 2 hives were protected from denser trees. I just hope I don't go home and see more of the same on my other two hives!


Did you determine, then, that this was the electric company? Who is the "they?"


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## Seymore

Yes, electric company. "an herbicide." He doesn't know what was in "the concoction, probably a mix of several things." I told him I wanted to know exactly what ingredients were sprayed. I asked why we weren't notified of a spray - he said "sorry." That made all the difference in the world! (yeah, right)


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## G3farms

Seymore said:


> "the concoction, probably a mix of several things."


ooohhh that sure does sound a little off label to me, needs his applicators license pulled.


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## Tom G. Laury

Herbicides are not toxic to bees. Unless the poison was micro encapsulated your equipment will be fine, if the colony is totally dead or dies later be sure to preserve all the comb, it is actually more valuable than the bees. Or should I say more expensive to replace. Looks like insecticide kill to me.


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## Seymore

Bees are soaking in alcohol waiting for trip to MD for testing. Are they (electric co or contractors) obligated to tell me what they sprayed? It's just too much of a coincidence that a spray happens and then my bees are dead - the entire hive - that night. (It actually could have been the next night; details are already fuzzy). Is that too soon for a kill like that to occur? 

Tom, how does one know if poison is micro encapped? I am sick about the bees AND the comb. It IS such a waste of time, money, and lots of little bee hours spent slaving. I get angry all over again!

Also, one other piece that doesn't quite fit. My 2 other hives seem fine - now 3 days later. They are much more shielded by a tree barrier and the dead hive up on a small ridge of sorts. Could the 2 hives be within 100 feet of a hive that was killed by drift and not be bothered at all. I just figured it was the protection from the trees and wind direction.


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## Tom G. Laury

The microencapsulation is not that common, used in ag mostly. Brand names are PenncapM, Lockon, others?

The comb will be reusable if you preserve it. Really to me it sounds like the damaged colony was highly visible and suffered some "personal attention".


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## Jim 134

Seymore said:


> Bees are soaking in alcohol waiting for trip to MD for testing. Are they (electric co or contractors) obligated to tell me what they sprayed? It's just too much of a coincidence that a spray happens and then my bees are dead - the entire hive - that night.


Are you sending comd all so :s:s


BEE HAPPY Jim 134


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## odfrank

Here I had good luck with my local county agricultural commissioner who also regulates pest control. I doubt it was the spraying that selectively killed one hive. Suffocation maybe?


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## Seymore

Jim 134 said:


> Are you sending comd all so :s:s
> 
> 
> BEE HAPPY Jim 134


Jim, I wondered about that! Wouldn't hurt - I'll do that too. May answer for sure if I can reuse equipment. 

Od - I'll check that out. Good idea.


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## wdcrkapry205

Is that a screened bottom board you are using? Where you using a pollen trap?


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## Seymore

wdcrkapry205 said:


> Is that a screened bottom board you are using? Where you using a pollen trap?


Yes, a SBB. No, no pollen trap.


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## djei5

Can you post bigger pics?


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## Seymore

Dj... R u funnin' me???


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## djei5

Clicked on em but they never got bigger, sorry, just too small for my eyes. Do feel for you though, what a pity.


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## Kazzandra

Keep us posted on this, Seymore. I have always looked at my electric company, who also uses contractors to spray herbicide, with suspicion. Doubtlessly keeping their contractors rotated makes it very easy to use things off-label and have no accountability. I really looooove the answers you got from them. That's bull.


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## Seymore

djei5 said:


> Clicked on em but they never got bigger


Oh, ok, I thught they had come across huge. Yes, will edit and repost larger. 

Kaz, will do an update when I hear. Texted the guy yesterday who said he would get my contact info to the peole who could tell me what was sprayed. Told him I was still waiting. He asked me for my address and said he'd get it to me himself. So....he couldn't do that last week?? NOW he can find out? I just sorta think what I get from him will not necessarily match with what was actually sprayed. YA THINK??!


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## Intheswamp

Document, document, document... It sounds to me like their delaying and letting the evidence "drift away". This isn't there first rodeo, I'm sure. I would give them a set amount of time to respond. If they don't respond then send them a bill for the damages. If they don't pay take them to small claims court or higher if the damages are higher....let a judge decide what happened. I think it would be one of those "duh" things in most anyone's mind that the hive in the closest proximity to the spraying died shortly after the spraying was done and the other two that were further away and somewhat shielded had no problems. That's a mighty long shot. They sprayed, bees died,....hello?

They will drag their feet, stammer, stutter, and finally come up with a receipt where they purchased a bottle of Terror sugar syrup to kill ants. They don't want to find out what happened, they don't want *you* to find out what happened, they don't won't to make it right with you, they just want you to go away. Document this whole situation.

Fair warning, I'm not a lawyer...but I *think* I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express once.

Ed


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## baldwinbees

A letter from an attorney stating that either a remedy to the problem needs to be reached in xxx days or a court date will have to be set will usually get their attention&costs around $50.[added to the bill]


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## Serbian Beekeeper

What you do in this situation, is there any chance to get compensation or any assistance or subsidies?

Sorrz for my bad english...


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## Seymore

A tale of two cities: It was the worst of times; it was the best of times. 

 This is not a post I ever plan to post again! 

I have not contacted the electric company since receiving the composition of their herbicide. Fortunately, I was patient and didn't contact the papers (like I was dying to!) with my rants and raves and sad pictures. I HAVE spent several hours researching the situatuion and all possible causes. I'm a fairly good detective (though as yet only a mediocre beek). The one thing that absolutely did not make sense was the fact that there were NO supplies within the hive. It was very obviously NOT robbed, but that would be a better answer for me. 

I spent a good half hour or more with Bart at Beltsville, MD, where they do NOT test for pesticides btw. I also spent that much time or more with Jon, our state apiculturist. They were very helpful and we applied what I call the rubic cube examination method to my situation. With their at least 50 years of beek experience and my description of the situation, along with countless other interviews and questionings, the only answer that made any sense:

I starved my bees. 

It makes me so sad to "say" that out loud, but I know this is what happened and now I have to live with that. It was a beautiful, booming hive and my timing to stop feeding hit right before the drought hit. My last quick check revealed some absolutely gorgeous brood so I shut her back up and called her good. Not a big mistake. HUGE mistake. 

I have painfully learned an invaluable lesson. I immediately checked my other 2 hives and guess where they were heading. No obvious signs of brood, larva or eggs. I thought both hives were queenless. I immediately started feeding both hives and set about finding new queens. Found some locally. Wanted to get brood too to expedite their recovery time so I had to do some switching of boxes (due to equip incompatibilities). This being a week after I started feeding, guess what I found - LARVA! I had queens. 

BEGINNERS - VERY IMPORTANT! I did not understand this when I heard it and STILL didn't understand it when I SAW it. In a drought, YOUR QUEEN CAN BE ALIVE BUT CAN STOP LAYING IN THE ABSENCE OF FOOD! She goes I guess bee version of dormant! A week earlier, I had no visible signs of queen, eggs, larva, or brood. Thought she was a goner. Fed for a week and boom - larva!

It is very difficult to find a bright spot in one's beetending skills when one (THIS one) kills a beautiful, bustling hive. But I always try to find value in my mistakes.

*The lessons/values here*: 
*A top-box-only inspection revealing gorgeous brood does not a good inspection make.
*I saved two hives that possibly could have suffered the same fate.
*None of my bees will ever meet that fate again, if I have anything to do with it. 
*I do have some beautiful drawn comb that I CAN use, since not from pesticide exposure. 
*QUEENS GO DORMANT!
*And when someone tells me stop feeding... I will not blindly accept this advise and assume all is well.


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## Intheswamp

Thanks for sharing, Seymore...lots of folks wouldn't have but it is some good information that us newbies need to know. You probably just helped a bunch of hives avoid the same fate.

I know you feel bad about what happened, but good will come out of it ultimately....your inspections will be much more thorough and your future attention to the needs of your bees will probably be more keen than most folks. I would guess that you are going to be a very good beek.

Best wishes,
Ed


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## Seymore

Ed, what a sweet comment. Thank you! I do hope someone else can gain from my loss, for sure.


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## Kazzandra

Thanks for letting us know, Seymore. I wondered about starving bees with the droughts everyone has been having. I've been feeding all of mine a quarter of gallon every night, recently, and I'm glad I did.

I wonder why they didn't abscond first? Oh-- right. They still had brood just before that...


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## Seymore

> Iwonder why they didn't abscond first?


Kaz, I was told the bees won't leave a bad situation to go to a worse situation.... Absconding when a drought is going on is certain death. Not sure if it is accurate but it made sense.


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## lineman52

Thanks Seymore, being new to bee keeping, it is very helpful the information you shared.


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## swamprat

my grandfather always said "no great loss without some small gain"


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