# Hive removal from garden. No experience!



## Bal (Aug 11, 2014)

Hello everybody.

There is a wild colony of bees at my friends front yard. She moved in there a few weeks ago. We don't know how long the bees have been there but they seem to be established in a shoe box under bushes. Swarm season is just starting here in Australia so I'm pretty sure these bees wintered in that box. So far I have left a nuclear box right next to the shoebox with frames and foundation in it. I also added a few drops of lemongrass oil on cotton balls and left them inside the nuc box. That was 3 weeks ago. Then we went on holidays and I didn't have an opportunity to check it out. I just didn't want them to swarm when I was gone. 

I'm a newbee and don't have any hands on experience. I have been reading about bees for a few years. Have done a lot of research, watched hundreds of videos and have read pretty much every topic in this section. I was hoping to get a nice and easy swarm to catch as my first bees but obviously the bees had other plans for me. There are no experienced beeremovers in the area. The beekeepers live close by don't do cutouts, trapouts etc. So I have nobody here to show me, help me to get these girls out.

Tomorrow I will go there to see if any swarm moved into the nuc box. If not, I will get prepared for removal of the bees. The box is located under trees and shrubs, covered with ivy. There might be more than one entrance and to be honest I can't locate the entrance, its under ivy. Otherwise I would consider a trapout.

I made a list of things to have with me and have a plan. I won't attempt to do it until I get all the things in the list and I read all of your opinions. So please help me, I need every bit of help I can get.

Here is my list
Suit and veil, gloves.
Boxes, frames, foundation
Smoker
Hive tool
Knives
Queen trap thingy (still waiting for this one to arrive though)
Elastic bands to secure the combs to the frames
Bucket and water

Please let me know if I'm missing something else.

Thank you all in advance.


----------



## philip.devos (Aug 10, 2013)

What you have done could work. This past year I have caught 2 swarms in the same location, using a box with one drawn frame and the remainder frames foundationless, with a piece of cloth with 2 drops of lemongrass oil on it. They just might decide to walk into your NUC.

Regarding your list, do you mean a Queen Clip (Queen Trap Thingy)? If so you might also want to get a Queen Muff. For a look at what that is click on this link:
http://www.dadant.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1090

I use the clip to catch the queen. When I mark her I use the Queen Muff, bringing the queen in clip inside the muff. I made a crude marking tube out of an old prescription drug plastic bottle. I remove the "CHILD-PROOF" cap, and cut a hole in it which is slightly larger than the length of the queen. I reclosed the cap onto a piece of nylon mesh, through which I mark the queen. The bottom of the prescription drug bottle I cut out entirely. I fashion a piece of sponge to a diameter identical to the drug bottle. This sponge is used to push the queen gently against the mesh, through which I mark the queen.

Hope this info helps.

Phil


----------



## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

The only thing I can add is...
Can you remove the whole shoe box and take it to your own bee yard? That would make the extraction operation much easier.


----------



## Bal (Aug 11, 2014)

Thanks guys,
Philip, I did mean a queen clip, yes. I just couldn't remember it's name last night. I will try to make one of those too. 

Ray, I didn't think of that. Thanks for the idea. 

The box is fairly big. From where I'm standing, it looks like a shoe box but may not be. It is sturdy enough to home the hive obviously but I don't know for sure if it would hold itself when picked up. There is a lot of movement in and out of it even in the rainy, bad weather. I assume there are quiet a few bees in it. I even thought they might have dug into the soil underneath it for room. It is on the ground and covered with ivy. My first plan is to cut the ivy off of it and clear around it to see where the entrances are. I will take photos to show what I mean.


----------



## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

Slide a thin piece of board under the box, then lift the board, the box would hold together better that way. A board like a section of wood paneling or thin plywood.


----------



## Bal (Aug 11, 2014)

Thanks Ray, I will try that once I get rid of the ivy. Today was very cold and stormy so I didn't get to do anything. The forecast was 26 centigrade degrees with late storms but the cool change came early. Will not warm up for a few days, so I will have to wait :waiting:


----------



## Bal (Aug 11, 2014)

I have good news and bad news.
The good news is that the hive is 3 times bigger than I expected! It is also extremely heavy. I couldn't even move it one bit. I even tried with my foot. It didn't budge (well, that's bad news I guess) also the bees are very nice and docile. I was there under the bushes, ripping and cutting the ivy, I even accidentally swatted a few of them, hit one too. They didn't even take notice of me. One guard bee came to check me out, after about 5 seconds of buzzing in front of my face, she went back inside. I stayed and worked for another 10 minutes after that but she didn't come back. Very nice girls 

The bad news is, the box is huge! Will be difficult to move. Also there is some ivy coming out of it. It is rooted at the bottom of the box. Will be impossible to move the box without cutting the roots which I can't get to without lifting the box. But I can't lift the box because the ivy is holding it down. Hmmm.

This is before I removed the top ivy, you can see my nuc box which is empty.


----------



## Bal (Aug 11, 2014)

this is after i removed the ivy on top, revealing the full size of the box.


----------



## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

Removal on the spot for sure. Remove a side first. You'll have less of a mess with dropped comb if you remove the top.
Post pics and good luck. The first one NEVER goes as planned and is a real learning experience!


----------



## Walt McBride (Apr 4, 2004)

Bal, can you cut the ivy with pruning loppers (long handle cutters) pushed under the box propping the box up ward as you go ?
I would place some large stable material over the ivy next to the box to stand and to work on or clear the ivy to the dirt as you do not want to trip while working. I have been there, done that!
As said before open the side, pry or saw. Smoke and brush most bees off face of comb exposed then cut around edge of comb cutting top of comb last and remove comb placing comb temporarily in nuic box. Serrated bread knife is my favorite to use. Continue brushing bees off removed comb into nuic box adding frames for bees to cluster on and place removed comb in to buckets with lids. When you start to see brood or sealed brood these combs are to be placed in to empty frames held with rubber bands & 6D nails through the end bar holes. Work on a large tray or wood surface to place comb in to frames. Use thin rubber gloves when cutting and handling sticky comb. Rinse often. Don't work with leather gloves if you have them. Place brood frames in to nuic and remove first cut comb brushing off bees and place in to comb bucket with lid. Have several buckets, water & rags handy. If bees are clustering on or in original box, brush them in to a thin edge cardboard box and dump them in to the nuic box. The objective is to relocate brood comb in to frames as much as you can and the bees, and place in to nuic. Comb with honey is fed back later in pan above nuic box over cover with hole in it and box over pan with top on. When finished place nuic box in place of original box to pick up disturbed and returning field bees. Queen will be in nuic box, cluster in or on original box, or in ivy. Check any cluster you see and dump in to nuic. Remove original box free of any bees to a distance. Watch for ants and wash every thing free of honey. Check in 4,5 days for eggs and remove rubber bands and start feeding back honey comb. I have done this procedure over 125 times over the years and was the way I got my first hive.

Walt


----------



## Bee Whisperer (Mar 24, 2013)

What is thee box made of? It looks like some kind of cabinet or furniture. Have you identified what kind of box it is?


----------



## Bal (Aug 11, 2014)

Thanks for the ideas, I will need every bit of information I can get before I go hackle this thing. The box is made of very thin plywood or pressed cardboard covered with nylon I think. Two days ago the weather was a bit better so I went there to gather more information. There are many bees at the entrance (which I still can't see clearly) it's on the right side of the box somewhere. I crawled into the area between the box and my nuc to see the entrance only to find out that it's impossible to see. The bees go under the ivy. I assume there is a hole under the box but can't see it. Also there is more bad news, that right side of the box goes deeper than I expected. As if the box is on beams and is sitting high. Not on the ground. I don't know how to explain it but when I put my hand under the ivy and in some places my arm can go down a foot but still can't reach the ground. Because of the ivy I can't see the ground. I have a feeling that the hive could be extending below the box somehow. Also I saw a dead sparrow on that side too. God only knows what it was doing there.

Again, the bees were very pleasant to be around. One of them landed on my arm and flew off two seconds later. Where I can access to the area is on their flight way too. I have to squat to get in there. Very squishy. It will be a difficult job to cut while sitting right in their flight way. I will have to figure out a way of keeping my tools and buckets close so I don't have to climb in and out every time I pick something up to put in buckets or nuc.

I'm still waiting for the queen clip to arrive. I don't want to lose the queen in ivy. This is going to be my first hive. I don't want to mess it up. After reading your suggestions I decided to cut as much of ivy as I can to clear the ground. Then maybe prune the trees above a bit so they are not in the way. Then put a sheet of wood down, maybe even a white plastic sheet on top of that so I can see her majesty if she happens to drop. I will still try to cut the ivy underneath the box but I'm worried about damaging the hive if it's extending below the bottom line of the box. We will see.

Thank you so much for ideas and suggestions Mr.Beeman and Walt McBride. I really appreciate all of them and the encouragement.


----------



## Bee Whisperer (Mar 24, 2013)

Bal;
Please take progressive photos as you go. This has got my curiosity peaked. Does it look like the box was planted there for some specific purpose, or has it been something that was discarded and things just buried it? If it is on beams, or a framework of some sort, the hive could be underneath it. Clipping any vines that go beneath it would be wise. 
I can't wait to see what it looks like after you cut away the ivy. That might reveal a great deal.


----------



## jredburn (Feb 25, 2012)

Bal
Get a limb lopper to cut the Ivy away. Early in the AM or at dusk go to the box and smoke them lightly.
Cut the Ivy away from the entrance. Cover the entrance with wire cloth, screen or duct tape as a last resort. Cut the rest of the Ivy away. Seal any other entrances.
If the box is buried in the ground, dig around it and pry it up. Slide the box onto a piece of plywood and move it to someplace where you can manhandle it. If it is to heavy to lift and you cannot get help you will have to do a cutout in place. It is best if you can move them to a yard and let them sit for a day or two. Then do the move.
If you do the removal in place, then there are lots of videos available to guide you. Since you do not have a vacuum you will have a hard time gathering all the bees. The best method is to use folding trapout frames that you can open like a book. Cut the comb out, one frame size piece at a time and place it in the frame, bees and all. Told it up and place it in the deep. When you have all the comb in the box, take the original and shake the bees into a corner, then pour them into your deep. Between a couple of frame is best but on top of the frames will to. Put a lid on the box and seal them in. Leave one opening that is covered with screen for ventilation. Take them home. Leave them sealed in the box for three to five days. Then put a piece of queen excluder over the entrance and let the workers fly. Put a SNB trap in the deep before you seal it up.


----------



## Bal (Aug 11, 2014)

The queen clip is here finally! The weather is bad though. I haven't had a chance to go to the bees since last time. It's been very stormy and raining heavily. If the weather improves, I will go to clear more ivy tomorrow and hopefully on Thursday we will do the cut out. I have a friend who also wanted to start beekeeping with me. We got our equipment together and were planning to purchase package bees this spring to start. As I researched more I decided to find a swarm, then another friend ended up finding this wild colony. You know the rest of the story. So she is going to help me with the cutout. I gave her links to here and also to YouTube cutout videos, so she can get an idea of what I'm planning to do. I also asked my husband to help. He wasn't initially interested in cutouts but he knows I need all the help I can get. He will provide the muscles. I made him watch a few cutout videos too so he knows what I'm about to do. 

Thanks for the advice jredburn, I will try to find the entrance tomorrow.

And thanks for the encouragement Bee Whisperer. The box seems like it was discarded there and things just grew in/around/over it. Hopefully I will be able to cut all of the ivy tomorrow so we can see more.


----------



## Bal (Aug 11, 2014)

Oh and one more question, is there a way to purchase honeybee gone in Australia? I've been looking online with not much luck. Is it possible to get it delivered here if I purchase kt from US?


----------



## jredburn (Feb 25, 2012)

Go to 
http://www.poorboybees.com/presentation.html
and you will find a formula for bee quick.


----------



## Bee Whisperer (Mar 24, 2013)

Waiting with anticipation. Hope all goes well.


----------



## Bal (Aug 11, 2014)

Thank you so much for the link jredburn! Great info there. I already got the two ingredients but couldn't find the almond essence. I have sweet almond oil at home but I don't think it will work. I will go to the health food store tomorrow. They will have it.

Bee Whisperer, the weather was quiet bad again today, I feel so annoyed but will have to wait I suppose.


----------



## Bal (Aug 11, 2014)

jredburn said:


> Go to
> http://www.poorboybees.com/presentation.html
> and you will find a formula for bee quick.


In the formula, it doesn't say how much almond extract I need to add. I converted fluid ounce to mililitres, so I will need to put around 30mls of tea tree oil per litre of alcohol, but I got stuck about the almond extract. The only bottle of almond extract I found is 50mls so about 1.7 oz. It seemed too much considering you said a small bottle. What should I do? Add all of that bottle into the mix?

I also would like to take this opportunity to thank you not only for sharing the link but actually providing the information on that link. I had a look around the webpage to find a contact email and realized it was actually you who had the page. Thank you so much for all that very useful information. As a newbee, I do appreciate it a lot


----------



## Bal (Aug 11, 2014)

Yesterday I spent 2 hours with the girls (and a few boys) again they were very calm bees. I removed some ofthe ivy, some branches for easy access. Was sitting right on their flight way too. I took a laser thermometer with me to find the warms spots. I believe the brood nest is on the far right corner of the box. I also figured out that the bees are inside the box. There is ground underneath the box. One of the beams I felt last week was right in front of the main entrance. I also put my hands underneath the box, in some places it feels like there isn't a bottom board. There are 5 entrances so far. I poked my hand in one of them trying to feel if there was a bottom to the box. Must have hurt a few bees because as I removed my hand, there were about 20 bees on it and another 20 poured out the entrance to attack my hand. I shook them off in front of the main entrance, removed one sting from the rubber glove. Then all of a sudden they were all calm and sweet again  I removed some of the dark blue leather cover. Then one side of the box came off, only to reveal that there was another box inside!! It's a mystery (sigh!) I pulled a bit more of the leather cover to reveal comb. The box is full of comb to the top. The whole thing is about 30 or 40 kilos I believe. It can be put on top of a board and moved but there are too many entrances, awkwardly placed and shaped ( broken bits of board provide entrances) it will be impossible to contain the bees inside during the move. I decided to cut out on the spot. Covered the box back and left it there. Oh before that I took about a tablespoon size of honey comb as a trophy! It was delicious! The bees moved away when I blew on the comb. They are so nice. Even when they are buzzing around my veil  I felt confident to do the cut out by myself. If I knew I had enough time, I would have done it yesterday. But morning was too cold, by the time wind died down and it warmed a bit it was after 1pm. I had to pick the kids up from the school etc. Today I have my friend and husband to help me. I'm looking forward to doing this. It will be patchy with little wind and 24degrees C. Wish me luck!

Oh and my first attempt with the smoker wasn't very good. Must have gotten too hot too quick. Smoke was coming from every part of it. So I didn't use it yesterday. Just a few sprays of sugar water kept them busy preening


----------



## Bee Whisperer (Mar 24, 2013)

Bal; love the play by play information. Would it be possible to see photos of your progression? Excited for you.


----------



## Walt McBride (Apr 4, 2004)

Bal; I am enjoying your reports of progress. You may not realize how lucky you are to find this ferial colony to transfer on your very first contact with honey bees and they seam to be a very gentle one at that.
I have known several beekeepers that have never done a transfer and I feel sorry for them not having the feeling of accomplishment that you get after a transfer takes place and the colony takes hold of the situation and flourishes.

Walt


----------



## Bal (Aug 11, 2014)

We've done it! I am so proud of myself 
It's a HUGE colony. Very docile, I didn't even get one sting! My friend got one on her chin though. It was a very difficult cut out. Not only because we weren't experienced but the whole hive was very skew. It must have collapsed at some stage. Most of the comb was blackish brown, so very old colony. Lots of honey we put in the buckets. 2 buckets were full and one was half full. They were 20 litre buckets. We watched as a worker bee hatched while my friend was holding the comb 
My friend kept saying this was the most awesome thing she has done. I think it was the most amazing experience for me too. My dear husband was so helpful, he worked with us all day and picked the kids up from school and after that he went to work to do a 12 hour night shift. We also had a lot of help from our friend who owns the place, e which the bees were living. She babysat for my us, fed the kids after school. Fed us too! If I didn't have those lovely people in my life, and if I didn't have your awesome support and knowledge, I wouldn't be able to do this. I am grateful for all the support and tips you have provided me. Thank you! 

I will put photos from yesterday and will add today's photos/videos, later. Just wanted to let you know that we've done it and it was a success (for a total beginner who's never had a hive or even touched bees in her life before!) Now I need to go scrub this smoky smell off!


----------



## Bee Whisperer (Mar 24, 2013)

Countless cheers from Missouri USA. :applause: :applause: :applause: You are very far into the addiction of beekeeping now. Too late to turn back, but you'll love every moment; even the heart aches. We are very proud of you and you team. You have accomplished something that very few beekeepers ever get to try. 

Were you able to locate the queen?


----------



## Bal (Aug 11, 2014)

Thank you so much Bee Whisperer  My friend found the queen, I saw her as well when she pointed out, but unfortunately by the time I took the queen clip of my collar she was gone  dissappeared into the see of her marching daughers. I am pretty certain that she has gone in the hive box with the others though because she was marching with them to that direction and was only 2 inches away from the entrance. After about 10 minutes after that happened all of the displaced bees started going in too! yay! I didnt want to disturb them trying to find the queen inside, so left them to be.


----------



## Bal (Aug 11, 2014)

Walt; thank you so much for the encouragement  I do realise how lucky and blessed we are with this colony. After reading tens of books, watching literally hundreds of bee related videos (especially cutouts) and studying what ever material I can find here relating to my situation I just can't believe how lucky I am cutting them out. And not one sting! for a first timer I believe we did awesome but perhaps a more experienced bee removalist (is that right to call them this name??) would have done it better than us. At some stage I looked at the poor girls who were drowning in the nectar on the plastic sheet we put down and felt horrible about myself. it was carnage and I hated myself for starting it. It wasnt my intention but I did kill around a hundred girls and probably more than twenty drones. Also we had to sacrifice some brood comb because it was very askew, crooked. wouldn't fit in the frames. Yes this is addictive, I was already obsessed with the bees even before I did this and now I am in love even more deeply than before. I am also feeling quiet guilty for killing so many of them eventhough I didn't meant it. I know they will be happier and healthier in the nex boxes. This is my reward.


----------



## Bal (Aug 11, 2014)

this is the main entrance photo taken from the top


----------



## Bal (Aug 11, 2014)

These photos are from the exploring day. 29th October 2014


here is the top of the box, It was filled with water and sludge.








After I cleaned the top, I found a hole which they were coming in and out of. This hole was under water, it must have been dripping inside the hive I thought.








I also took video but it's the end of the month and I used up all my data allowance hehehehe. I've been watching too many bee videos, now I don't have enough data left to upload my own hahahah! 5 more hours then it's midnight, then I can upload them


----------



## Bal (Aug 11, 2014)

Sorry I must have uploaded this one this morning. just remembered. This is from 29th October. Just having a feel of the box and peeking inside. I took it with my phone. I don't record videos on my phone so I don't really know what I'm doing. It is sometimes sideways, sometimes upside down. I apologise about this.

[video]http://vid200.photobucket.com/albums/aa37/ayben0donnell/20141029_134623.mp4[/video]


----------



## Bee Whisperer (Mar 24, 2013)

Bal;
Thank you for the video. The box is much larger than I thought it was. Did you ever figure out what the box actually was; furniture or something? 

So glad you were able to do this. Please post photos of your hive after you get it placed where you want it. I am thrilled for you. :thumbsup: Let us know, too, about the progress of your beekeeping.


----------



## Bal (Aug 11, 2014)

Bee Whisperer; I will post videos and photos as soon as they are uploaded onto photobucket. They are being uploaded as I'm typing this actually. I realised it takes too long with photobucket so next lot will be uploaded to YouTube. 

I also found that we didn't take any footage after the first hour. We were all sticky and trying to get the job done by that time  the hive was in an impossible shape too. I'm very annoyed actually that we didn't get any photos of it now. Every time I asked my husband to take a photo, he was too busy doing something else and couldn't be bothered with photos inch:


----------



## Bal (Aug 11, 2014)

2 more videos. There is one more from this day, once that one uploads, I will start uploading the cutout day videos.



[video]http://vid200.photobucket.com/albums/aa37/ayben0donnell/Honeybees/20141029_144446.mp4[/video]


----------



## Bal (Aug 11, 2014)

And the last video from the exploring day 

Oops forgot to actually add the link hehehe.


----------



## Bal (Aug 11, 2014)

Sorry, this is the last video from exploring day.


----------



## Bee Whisperer (Mar 24, 2013)

Great videos. Hope all works well for them in their new home.


----------



## Bal (Aug 11, 2014)

Hi beewhisperer, 
I've been trying to upload the cutout video to youtube but for some reason it takes too long, then a few hours later YouTube gives up and puts it in a que. It took more than 6 hours last time I tried. I gave up 
Is there another way to upload videos here? Where can I go to learn? YouTube isn't helping. 
I feel horrible that I promised to share the video and now it's been over 10 days and I still haven't done it. 
Since I did the cutout many things happened with the hive. I want to update everyone about them too but I'm stuck because of the stupid 14 minute video that I can not even upload. I'm trying to keep the story line unchanged so if anyone reads my posts, they can get the story as it happened. Not bits and pieces here and there. Grrrr to technology, especially when it's too hard to understand!


----------



## Bal (Aug 11, 2014)

UPDATE:

Since I can't upload the cutout video, I decided not to wait for it any longer to fill you in on the progress of my little girls.

We cut the hive, put honey and nectar filled com's in buckets to feed back later. Tried to put brood combs in frames but most of them were crooked. At some stage the box must have collapsed as most of the comb was squished. We salvaged whatever we could. Put them all in my 10 frame medium Lang box. We had 4 frames of brood, positioned them in the middle, put 3 empty frames without foundation on one side, 3 frames with foundation on the other side. They must have melted (I didn't secure them properly) under the weight of the bees and they collapsed. We removed 2 of the foundation on the day. Must have forgotten the last frame with the foundation sheet in it though. 
4 days later we did our first inspection. Just before hand I remembered about that sheet also that I haven't actually put any starter strips on the other frames :s 
When we opened the hive, we found that the bees have filled the box with uneven comb. Mostly because the brood sections were crooked, too thick or fallen off the frames. But the last sheet of unsecured foundation also collapsed. The bees built on it but it started on one frame, then half way trough went to the next frame and the end of it was attached on a wall. The whole box was a huge mess inch:

We decided to remove the frames. We then shook every frame into a new box with foundation strips. Every frame had only a strip, nothing else. Most of the brood was hatched, so we didn't put the brood combs in the new box. It took us 3 hours to clean our mess but we thought if we gave them an indication then they would build proper comb. Oh and the day after we did the cutout, the box got tilted one side too. That effected the comb as I t wasn't level anymore. We levelled the box the second time around.

3 days after that I went there to see how they were going. Middle frames had 3/4 comb built. As you move to outer frames from middle, the comb amount was decreasing slowly, finally the end frames had 1/3 comb built. The girls were docile again, not noisy, just quietly pulling on their legs, producing beautiful, bright white wax, perfectly level, perfectly straight white wax. Aren't I the luckiest newbee!

I didn't see the queen, I didn't see any eggs either. It was light, the comb was too bright and shiny with nectar, every frame was full of nectar. I couldn't hold the frames on their side to look properly for the queen or the eggs. The new wax was very fragile and bending so I left them alone. I decided to check them in a few days when I could see larvae as they are bigger than eggs so in a few days if there is a queen, there should be larvae. There are plenty of bees covering every frame, even the top of the frames, front wall of the hive. It is crowded. I didn't realise it then though.

Yesterday looking here to find out when I should give them a new box, I found out that I already should have done it. So they are crowded, probably by now all of the frames are drawn and full of nectar, and if there is a queen in there, she has nowhere to lay her eggs!!! I panicked!

I can't give them a new box yet as it will be difficult to move them from where they are. Its awkward, they are under a bunch of very closely planted trees and shrubs. I was waiting for the wax comb to be strong enough for the travel. Once I take them out of there, then I could give them the second box. I hope I'm not too late. Today I thought about taking the outer frames out and giving them empty frames so they can think they have extra room. Would that be enough? I was about to do it but received a phone call literally while driving to the bees. A friend called me about a swarm just turned up at where he works, my husband works there too. They asked me if I could remove it before someone gets stung  So I went back home to let my husband know. Now this is a big power station. Eventhough my friend and his supervisor said I can go there to remove them, my husband said we need to get special permits to let me in there. Environmental operations manager was contacted, he said "why not just spray the bees" (yeah the environmental guy huh! :scratch: ) my husband said it is preferable to relocate them since they are better for the enviroment when they are "alive". Also a pest control contractor was going to charge them, I was doing it for free of charge. So the guy set off preparing my permits, asking other departments for permits etc. Would you believe we still haven't heard from them after 6 hours! Anyway, my husband went to work. He said if he gets some free time at work, he would go check on the swarm. Apparently they are under a verandah, there was movement earlier but since it got dark the bees stopped moving. (As I was typing this message, my husband called me to let me know that he collected them in a cardboard box. Tomorrow morning he will bring them home after work. So it seems like me and my friend have two colonies now, yay! )

Ok back to the main story. After today's drama I didn't get to the cutout bees to change the frames. Should I do it tomorrow? Tomorrow evening we are going to move them from where they are to a few miles away so they can forget about here before finally moving back to my friends dads farm which is less than a mile away from where they are. Since they are going to move tomorrow night and get another box on top then, would it make a difference if I give them empty frames to build comb on a few hours earlier? I'm confused. I bet you are confused too after all this drama. Sorry


----------



## Bee Whisperer (Mar 24, 2013)

If it were me, and I was moving the hive tomorrow night, I would not get into the hive. My experience has shown me that the less intrusion we do, the better the bees will do. I would move the hive and then place the other box with frames on top of the first. 
Sounds like you are moving it at night, and that is a good thing. Wait until after dark, close up the entrances, and carefully / gently move the hive. Have everything prepared ahead of time at the new location. That way all you have to do is unload the hive. 
I use screen over the entrances so there is still good air flow, and I tape it in place with duct tape. I let the hive settle the rest of the night, and then I take off the screen in the morning. I would probably take a quick peak inside to make sure all was well, and then I would leave it for about a week before disturbing them again. That is when you might look for evidence of a queen. Hopefully, there will be comb with more than nectar in it. If you determine you have lost the queen, you will want to get another one and get her installed.
I am curious if the swarm had a queen in it. If so, how big was the swarm, and would you consider doing a "combine" to put both hives together in order to make one colony?
If, after you get the swarm established in a hive, and if there is a queen, and if there is no longer a queen in the cut-out hive, you could place newspaper on top of the cut-out hive box, and place the swarm box on top of the cut-out box. This gives the cut-out bees several days to get used to the swarm queen, and after they chew through the paper, they should become one very full colony. 
Or, if both colonies have a queen, then you have two new colonies. I hope all works out for you. You are certainly learning a great deal in a short time; but I bet you are loving it.  Thank you for the update, and keep sharing. I love it.


----------



## Bal (Aug 11, 2014)

Thanks for the advice Bee Whisperer. I will remember to put screen over the entrances, I was gonna block them with rags but screen is a much better idea 
The swarm is bigger than I expected. The cutout colony is very big too so combining will make a huge colony. Cutout hive is still strong, I checked them today and the box still full. Tonight we will move them to the new location, we will the swarm colony there as well. We hived the swarm early this morning. Didn't look for the queen, just shook the box inside the hive and closed the lid. There were a few bees at the front of the hive and they marched in soon after. Later I took 2 edge frames of combs with nectar from the cutout hive and put them into the swarm hive to help them out. Also this gave the cutout hive some more room ( sorry Bee Whisperer, I hadn't had your advice by then because of the time difference between Australia and U.S.) I didn't go trough the cutout hive so still don't know if there is a queen. In the afternoon while giving the swarm hive the frames, we found their queen!!!!! YAY YAY YAY! I was so happy you won't believe me. I am relieved now that I have options. The queen is tiny, the only difference between her and the workers is her pointy abdomen. There are no drones in this swarm either. We looked very carefully but haven't seen any drones, not even one. This swarm also appeared in bad weather, yesterday was very windy and cold also the power station they chose to settle is extremely loud. Plus the queen is tiny, so I assume she is a virgin and this was a secondary swarm maybe? Anyway, the cutout colony has tons of drones. My plan is to put the two hives in the same area, so if the swarm queen is a virgin, then cutout drones and she can go to a wedding flight. They are both very docile and have small wild bees in them. Even if I don't have a queen in the cutout hive, I can graft some eggs from the swarm hive in a week or so for the cutout girls to raise their own queen. 

So this is my plan. I hope it will work. I am learning heaps as I go but you are right, loving every minute of it. Even my 'not interested but forced into this by my wife' attitude husband is very into it now. Last night he put the swarm in a box all by himself, 5 meters high and standing on a cherry picker. He learned to drive the cherry picker too!


----------



## Bee Whisperer (Mar 24, 2013)

Hahahaha. Sounds like a great guy you have. I like the thought process you have about using a frame of eggs from the swarm hive for the cut-out hive to make their own queen; if they need it. She still may be in there. Keep feeding both hives right now so they can build comb quickly. Such a fortunate beekeeper you are. I love hearing about your adventure. 

Just a thought . . . and maybe you already are doing this, but, you might consider taking all that you have written, and recording the whole experience into a story format; thoughts, process, details of difficulties, victories, and experiences, and keeping the ongoing saga of your beginnings in beekeeping. It will be interesting for others, and it will bring you enjoyment many years from now. Keep us posted.


----------



## Bal (Aug 11, 2014)

Yes I was thinking about writing the whole thing down for future reference too! Then I realised I have it written down here with dates and everything anyway. I will copy my posts and keep them in a file. I like writing about the hives, as I'm writing, I get new ideas or recognise mistakes I've made. Very useful 

You are right I am very fortunate! You won't believe my news!!! I saw the queen!! Yay! I know I'm not supposed to open them for a peek this often but they really are a very strong colony. They need the room too, so today when I went there to add the second medium, I thought to have a quick peek. She was on the third frame, laying eggs! I saw the eggs too! Yay! They are tiny and on a white comb really hard to see but they are there so I'm very relieved and as you can tell I'm very excited too! I quickly videoed (is this even a word?) Her Majesty and put the frame back in the hive. I made sure that she was in the center of the frame and there were no other frames on each side so I didn't roll her. She was on the third frame, so I thought maybe she already has laid on the middle frames, I quickly checked the 6th frame but didn't see any eggs or any brood. I didn't want to disturb them anymore so left them alone. I won't touch them again for at least a week or so. 

I'm feeding their own honey and nectar back to them. I think that's the reason they are building comb so quickly. I don't have feeders and to be honest my hives are not designed to have feeders on them I believe. The entrances are small and there is no inner cover. I put the comb from the cutout on a tray and put it nearby. They rob it back. So far so good but ants rob it too hehehe. 

The swarm hive is robbing the honey too. Yesterday they found the bucket which I was storing combs with honey from the cutout. I must have forgotten to block the hole on top. Soon they discovered it of course and were robbing it like mad! Last night when we removed the hive, there were bees left in the bucket. I plugged the hole and today when I opened it to give them some air, 3 of them escaped. They immediately started looking for the hive but it's not there anymore. I put a nuc there. Left the honey bucket hole unplugged so hopefully by tonight those 2 dozen bees will get in the nuc box and tomorrow I will shake them in. I hope it will work. 

The cutout hive was so full, the bees were bearding at the entrance, it was a cool day and night yesterday so I know the reason was crowding, not heat. We tried to get as many we could in before the move but about 3 dozen or so bees are left behind. Today I put another box with some of their own brood comb in it from the old hive. Hopefully they will get inside tonight so I can shake them in as well. Then I can leave them alone. Is this ok to do or unnecessary? I felt guilty taking their home and leaving them behind  

I think I found the problem with slow uploading. I have to convert the videos. So soon I will be able to add them too


----------



## Bal (Aug 11, 2014)

here it is  finally uploaded. Sorry for the bad filming though.


----------



## Bee Whisperer (Mar 24, 2013)

Wonderful! :applause:
I must say, you all did very well. Patience is very important when extracting bees and placing them in a hive box. If you get more chances like this, you don't have to worry too much. Once you have dumped some of the bees into the box, they will signal the others with a pheromone, and over time (sometimes over night) they will all make it to the hive. Unfortunately, there will always be some bees left behind; sad but it's life. Also, when you are having to move the bees, off comb or another object, if possible use a soft long bristled brush with a very light flicking motion. Try not to brush them with long strokes. 

There were certainly lots of bees in that colony. You did extremely well. I can tell you have studied up on so many things. Wishing you the very best this season, and I ask that you talk to folks here on the Forum now and then about your journey in bee keeping. I, for one, will be looking for your posts. 
Love the videos too. You seem to be a very fun lady.


----------



## Bal (Aug 11, 2014)

Thanks Bee Whisperer, for the advice and for the encouragement. I will remember the short flicking strokes when using the bee brush. I knew I was doing something wrong there. So far I haven't needed to use it again during the inspections. Haven't used the smoker either. A few sprays of sugar water keeps them calm and I gently blow on them if I need them to get out of my way. They are such gentle bees. I truly am blessed, with beautiful bees and a very great source of wisdom and encouragement from this forum. Thank you everybody. For not telling me I couldn't do it because I had no previous experience. I appreciate it 

And you will be hearing from me. I love talking, and I'm sure I will have plenty of questions to ask. I already have a few actually, but before asking I'd better go read the forum to see if anyone else already asked, don't want to annoy everyone by asking the same beginner questions over and over 

Cheers to all!


----------



## Bee Whisperer (Mar 24, 2013)

Hey, how's it going over there? Hives doing ok?


----------



## Bal (Aug 11, 2014)

Hi Bee Whisperer,

The girls are doing great. The cutout hive has two mediums full of brood in all stages and nectar/honey. The swarm hive made some mess with the frames eventhough we gave them starter strips. We cleaned up the messy comb. One frame had two layers of comb on it. It had original brood comb piece from the cutout we did. It was full of brood so we put it on the outer edge of the hive. Hopefully once the brood hatches, they will fill it with honey so we can take it out. Don't want to kill any more brood to be honest. 
An experienced beekeeper came to help us to inspect our hives last week. He also helped us to mark our queens. We couldn't find my queen (cutout hive) but Kellie's queen was there and she is marked with a white without brush. He said that's what he uses all the time. I had a marking g pen, left it home  silly me. Anyway, I hope the wipeout ink doesn't hurt Kellies queen.
He said both colonies were heather, no brood diseases. We don't have varroa here in Australia and the small hive beetles haven't reached this far south yet. It's a bit cooler here for their liking I guess. He said it's only a matter of time as they get accustomed to the cooler weather :/
I will give them more room next week sometime, this week is a bit too cold and rainy again. Last night we moved them to their permanent spot. For some reason my bees seem to always hang around the entrance even in the middle of a cold night! It was an effort to get them in and block the entrance. One rushed out to find us and give a taste of her venom but we killed her before she could phew!

I don't remember if I mentioned I haven't been stung before. I don't know if I'm allergic or not. So the other day I had two stingers embedded in my glove after the inspection. When I got home, I carefully took them out and stabbed myself on my hand. Pumped whatever the venom left in and left them embedded in my skin for and hour. At first I felt heat rising from the spot but it eased in 5 minutes. Not very painful either. I was very proud of myself that I wasn't allergic. Until I found out that it is the second time you get stung you may react badly. Hmmmm, now I'm terrified off getting stung again! What if I'm allergic?

Hope your girls are enjoying the quiet winter days in their hives  there isntmuch to do in winter. I put 5 bait hives around my house and 4 of them seem to be getting many visitors everyday. One of them had about 50 scout bees going in and out of it yesterday. If a bee comes from another hive, they fight her off. I suppose someone put dibs on that hive  I'm expecting a swarm to move in today, but the weather is stormy with rain expected. 26 C degrees. 70 something F I suppose (I better learn the centigrade to Fahrenheit conversion soon) 
What are my chances of getting a swarm on a day like this?


----------



## Bee Whisperer (Mar 24, 2013)

Bal;
So nice to hear from you. My wife and I were just talking about you. She asked if I had heard from you, as to how the bees were doing, and I said I hadn't. We both agreed that if we ever get wealthy, we will come visit. Both of us love the idea of seeing your country.
We have had a rough start to the winter here in Missouri. We have lost five of our hives so far; mostly from being weak to begin with. It is interesting how some colonies are very good at gathering stores, but another one right next to them never gets enough to make it. I guess that is how the better hives survive; which is not necessarily a bad thing. We need the stronger bees to propagate more. We will use the strongest hives to make new ones in the spring. 
I tried to save one hive by purchasing a queen from Hawaii, but I was unaware that the hive had laying workers, and they killed her immediately. I should have checked first to see if there were two or three eggs in a cell. That is a tell-tale sign. The hive had been queenless for a little too long, and when that happens, some of the new workers can develop ovaries and lay sterile eggs that become drones. The drones then eat everything, and they don't forage, so the hive dies out. If it was spring, I would be able to do something with them, but I guess they will be another loss; hive number six. 
We will spend the rest of the winter preparing equipment for spring. Please keep us up on the progress, and if you need anything, please get in touch. I am thrilled for you. Have fun.


----------



## Bal (Aug 11, 2014)

I'm so sorry to hear about your lost hives Bee Whisperer  but you are right, the stronger colonies always better to propagate from. 

As of my bees, well they are in trouble...

There is this movement called getsunflowered. They are handing out seeds in sustainability events. I took a pack as well. Then I realised they were dipped in pesticides. They told me it was against earwigs, was environmentally and ecologically safe. I asked them what the contents were, they wouldn't give me names. I wrote a letter and posted it on their facebook page. They tried to reassure me that it wasn't harmful in anyway but I kept asking what the contents were. They told me that they got the information, asked me to go to their shop in person, so they could go trough it together. I declined, asked them to share it publicly. They blocked me from their page and deleted all of my comments and my letter. I have contacted our local beekeeping association, local council (they are one of the organisers actually), DPI. Got nowhere. Now I'm writing my story for the local news and sent it to a national tv and newspaper. Don't know what else to-do 
They finally admitted using Fipronil, which is the main culprit of CCD. So I was right. But it's impossible to get attention to this 
If you search the event getsunflowered you will see what I'm talking about. The initiators are ReActivate: Latrobe Valley, Ben Morieson, Latrobe City Council and our state Government. They are probably sponsoring the artist Ben Morieson.

One of the sites they will plant the seeds is 2 kms from our hives, which is one mile. The day those sunflowers bloom, my bees will die.


----------



## Bal (Aug 11, 2014)

Here is the letter I wrote originally.

On 29th November, I took my little pack of sunflower seeds with excitement. Unfortunately when I had a closer look and asked a few questions I found out that those seeds are treated with pesticides. ‪#‎getsunflowered‬ movement is a great idea, but why use pesticides? Why hand them to people in a sustainability activity? Obviously those seeds aren't going to produce viable seeds for future generations because they are commercially treated with pesticides. This isn't sustainable. I was gutted (you might think I'm exaggerating) to see the bright blue coated seeds in the little pack. This means when those seeds grow into flowers, insects will land on them, particularly honeybees. You might say so what? When a honey bee lands on a sunflower (or on any flower for that matter) to collect pollen, she gets covered with pollen. When you plant commercially treated seeds, they contain those harmful chemicals throughout their life. When the honeybee collects this pollen she also collects those harmful chemicals. Most of the time she dies instantly, sometimes she lives long enough to carry the contaminated-with-poison-pollen back to the hive to feed the eggs, larvae, pupae. They either hatch deformed or don't even get to hatch. But something else also may happen. The honeybee gets disoriented and may never find her home. In America they call this Colony Collapse Disorder. Thousands of honeybee hives are left behind with only a few newly hatched bees and maybe the queen inside (a beehive has somewhere between 10 000 and 100 000 bees in it normally) They researched for years to find out why the bees were disappearing. They found that the most contributing factor was the use of pesticides with neonicotinoids. Which is these sunflower seeds are dipped in. Now so many unsuspecting people will plant those seeds around the valley. I have two hives in Morwell. I know for a fact that there are hundreds of beehives in the Valley. There are also wild hives in the trees around. By planting those seeds, you are contributing to the slaughter of our most valuable insects, our pollinators, our honey makers, our precious honeybees. Please consider this before planting them. I have original variety, non hybrid, organically grown sunflower seeds from last years flowers. I'm happy to give away all of them if you still would like to contribute to #getsunflowered movement. I'm not against the movement, I'm just against the use of poison. If you like more information please search CCD and Neonicotinoids. Their use is banned in some countries already. Soon Canada is going to ban them as well. If bees are gone, we will suffer. They pollinate more than 30% of our food. You might think that's not much, the other 70% is enough for us. But the 30% is all the fruit and vegetables we love. Imagine life with no apples or oranges, no berries, no tomatoes. In China the government killed sparrows (who knows why they do those things) but soon they had fly problems. They sprayed everything with pesticides, which killed honeybees. Now they have humans pollinate their fruit trees so they can have fruit. We can do the same thing here. Imagine a person with a little pack of pollen from some other part of the country in one hand, holding a cotton bud in the other, pollinating every flower in the tree. In China labour is cheap, they can afford this. In Australia we don't have the cheap labour. One kilo of tomatoes will cost more than 100 dollars, our children will never know the taste of apples. Please consider this. If the organisers considered this before handing free treated with pesticides seeds out to public, I wouldn't have to beg here for you to think about the environment and our economy before planting those seeds. Thank you for reading.
Ayben


----------



## Bee Whisperer (Mar 24, 2013)

BAL;

I am so sorry to hear about the poison seeds. I am afraid for our entire world, and the quality of existence of our children, because of stupid, prideful, apathetic people in huge conglomerate corporations. The people who promote these poisons have no thought or concern for anything but money. The very thing they are doing in an attempt to increase produce will actually, bottom line, eventually decrease everything. It will be the demise of our whole planet, and it will be their head on the block; yet far too late, because normal people don’t have the knowledge and power to rise up against them when it counts; right now. The greed of these people causes them to ignore the fact that what they are doing will not only destroy vital pollinating creatures, it will decrease healthy vegetation everywhere and actually, eventually, vastly reduce production of produce due to extreme lower levels of pollination. Man will never be able to pollinate to the extent that God’s creatures were designed. Because neonicotinoids (neuro-active insecticides), and other man-made toxins, will eventually be disastrously detrimental to all natural reproduction of healthy flora and fauna, even oxygen and ozone will be affected, everything will die. The loss of the rain forests in South America has shown us precisely how vegetation, or the lack thereof, affects weather and climate, so the evidence is available. But they don’t care, because they are living selfishly in the here and now, knowing well that they will probably not see the fatal affects in their own life time. It will be our children and grandchildren who will suffer in the near future. Yet to these thoughtless, apathetic monsters, it is all about money and power in their own time. My hope is that there will be a special place in hottest parts of Hell for those that are purposely accountable for the blatant destruction of life in our world, through the use of these chemicals, and especially for those who have chosen to ignore the plea of concerned voices, the well being of others, and the sanctity of life. The bees and butterflies cannot speak for themselves, so it is our responsibility to fight this fight. 
Good job, and I applaud your stance on this matter.


----------



## Bal (Aug 11, 2014)

Sorry I haven't been able to update you on the matter Bee Whisperer. They have been very arrogant and attacking. They even blamed me and my letters as cyber bullying hahahah! Anyway, I sent the seeds for testing as the organisers are not reliable. Waiting for that to come back. In the meanwhile I contacted our relative departments and they are being supportive so far. Have been very busy with all athe paperwork and things  I thank you for your ongoing support, the beekeepers here doesn't seem to care really  I don't know what's going to happen when all of our bees dissappear too. :scratch:

Also another new beekeeper asked for help as his bees (which he received on last sunday) were dying. I went there for a quick look to see the poor little things heat distressed from the move and 80% of them were dead. Also a bad infestation of SHB was present, with all of the brood dead  I tried to save as many as I could. Hopefully the rest of them will be ok in their new clean box. Very busy andlearning a lot 

I hope you guys are enjoying the quiet winter times up at the top end of the world


----------



## Bee Whisperer (Mar 24, 2013)

BAL;

I haven't heard from you for a long while. Are you and your bees doing ok?


----------



## Bal (Aug 11, 2014)

Yes, we are doing great 

The bees are good, all doing what they are supposed to do. Last month I collected a swarm and they are doing good too  

Last week I did two cutouts (woo hoo!) But they both absconded unfortunately. After thinking and analysing what I did I decided it was my fault. I did everything right but the place I chose wasn't right, so the girls didn't like the new home and they packed up and left. I did the cutouts too close to eachother too. They were in bird nesting boxes over 10 feet high up on trees. We took them down the night before, we had fly wire screen on the entrances so the bees had fresh air but weren't able to go out. The next day I took the boxes to a friends place 10 km away so the bees didn't get confused. Kept spraying them with sugar water trough the fly screen. My friend showed me where I could put the hives, which wasnt very favourable for the bees (down low, under tree branches, on the ground and lower than the rest of the property) but he insisted that they stayed there. I didn't have any other property to put them in ( the other places are too close to their original place) so I thought it was only temporary anyway, the next week I was going Rohan move them back home. 
One colony was tiny so I cut them out first which took only half an hour. I found the queen but she escaped the queen trap! Then fell into bushes ( yeah you can imagine every curse in my vocabulary was used !!) Then I found her again and caught her with the cage again. I checked the cage and it wasn't faulty. I put her, in the cage, on top of the frames and just as I was placing the lid on top, she squeezed trough the cage and flew away!!!!! Second time! She hovered on top of the hive a little and left!!! The bees didn't follow her. They were all inside the hive, so I left them hoping she would come back ( she never did)

The second colony was bigger, filled the bird box ( same size as a nuc box). They needed to get out of the box asap so I focused on them. While the first colony started bearding at the entrance. Also a get of the bees from the first colony were fanning for the second colony at their entrance, over the fly screen, I thought oh how nice, they are helping the second colonies to have fresh air. I opened the second box, cut the combs which were perfect in every way. Placed them in my frames one by one and everything was going great. Then behind me, up on a branch the first colony started swarming and built a cluster. I never found the second colonys queen either. By the time I finished the cutout, most of the second colony moved out and joined the swarm too. This was one big swarm. I assume the first colony was queenless since she left, their numbers were very small anyway, just a handful off bees really. So the second colonys queen must have decided to swarm ( more like abscond actually) and the small colony followed them!
It was one big cluster!! 4 kilos 165 grams!! Over 9 pounds I think! Anyway I put all the brood combs together in my box, set up a different spot with white sheet in front of the hive and set the hive up off the ground aorta they could march uphill. Then I shook them! They marched in, veeeery slowly. When one third of them were in the box, I left. This was 8 hours after I started the cutout. I thought they were gonna stay. But by next morning they were all gone  so I took the brood comb and gave them to my weak colony. 
During cutout, there were roadworks nearby. I remember smelling the bitumen and tar being pored. I believe that added to the mistakes I made as well. I'm learning a lot though. 
Also after giving the brood to my colony. I saw a small hive beetle larvae ( I assume) in the box I took the comb from. I saw that when I was washing the box. I haven't seen any SHB though. I really hope I haven't given my bees any SHB. We haven't had SHB here where I live until recently. A few months ago they said there were a few of them around and I saw a hive infested with them which a friend purchased from a warmer place so we told him to destroy those boxes. 
Anyway, these are news. I hope you are well and getting ready for your bee season approaching soon


----------



## Bee Whisperer (Mar 24, 2013)

Bal; 
So sorry to about the cutouts. You probably learned a lot though, and if the same situation happened again, you would have a better idea of what to do. You are, I am sure, searching out better places to put hives; just in case. 

We are in the middle of a snowy cold snap here. We have had a devastating time with our bees this winter with the loss of at least seven hives due to starvation. Even though they were fed, the warm ups between cold snaps seemed to be enough for the girls to wake up and eat, so their stores went fast. I hope to make it through February, but the weather shows at least another week of cold before things appear to look better. I have one hive setting in my garage. It has been there all winter, and it was very small when I put it in there. Today, while working on equipment, the ladies decided to pay a visit, so at least they are still alive. However, they were just a handful, so I don't know what the next few weeks will do for them. 
I am building a couple of long Langstroth Framed hives, as the one I made last year seems to be doing very well.








We have purchased some property in some good country, and we hope to establish our main apiary there.








I am ready to catch swarms and do cutouts, but I will do some splits from the strongest hives in order to keep a good genetic line going. Hope to hear from you soon. I suppose you are looking at wrapping up your season soon, so happy planning for next year.


----------



## Bal (Aug 11, 2014)

I love the yellow beehive you built beewhisperer!! How nice it is! I wish I had carpentry skills like you, I am hopeless when it comes to putting timber together, I can't even put together flat packs lol!
I am so happy for you that you got a nice property for a new apiary, we have been looking for one for a few years now but with no luck. Yet anyway. Your property looks very beautiful.
Our season is still going, where I live we don't get cold winters. It is usually around 13 or 14 degrees celcius during the day and goes down to 6 or 8 degrees celcius during the night. No frost or snow, sometimes it rains though and it is very windy. So I don't know how my bees will do this very first winter season of mine. It will be a learning experience for all of us I'm sure  I'm planning to leave all the honey to them for this winterand see how much of it they consume. It will be interesting.


----------



## jredburn (Feb 25, 2012)

Bal 
I bought a bottle of real almond extract at the local grocery store. About 3 -> 4" tall. The only size there was. Real stuff, not artificial. 
The Tea Tree Oil was the same thing from the local CVS drug store.
The amounts can vary. Feel free to try different mixtures.
Regards
Joe


----------



## Bal (Aug 11, 2014)

Thanks Joe, I have made the beequick with your recipe and it works  I used almond extract but I also have sweet almond oil as well, if the extract didn't work my plan B was to use the oil


----------

