# caging queens



## Ryan Williamson (Feb 28, 2012)

Did you give her any attendants? Also if she was set down in the sun that can quickly cook a queen


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## kaizen (Mar 20, 2015)

Ryan Williamson said:


> Did you give her any attendants? Also if she was set down in the sun that can quickly cook a queen


No attendants as she was going to be released in an hour. she was set down literally for 5-7 minutes.


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## Ryan Williamson (Feb 28, 2012)

Was she in the sun or the shade during that time?


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## kaizen (Mar 20, 2015)

sun but i've had a frame laying on top of a hive watching the queen in the sun for 20 minutes before without issue. a plastic cage shouldn't have cooked her in that short of a time


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Terrence, my guess would also be you cooked her. There was a discussion about this last year too. Takes less than 5 minutes on the top of a hive on a sunny day. Much safer to have the queen in your pocket, but you might want to ask Kamon (Tennessees Bees) about that!


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## kaizen (Mar 20, 2015)

I'll have to search it out. This baffles me. It was 85 here and i took her out of a 95 degree hive. Do they overheat themselves in the cage as opposed to running around on a frame on top of a hive?


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

The tops of the hives can get quite hot on an 85° day. And if your queen was dark colored, solar radiation alone could heat her up well over 100°. The hive and brood nest area may be in the 90s, but it is also dark.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Cooked.
Why risk it?
Find shade - it is everywhere.

I would not use gloves either IF working the queen.
Bare hands best.


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## kaizen (Mar 20, 2015)

GregV said:


> Cooked.
> Why risk it?
> Find shade - it is everywhere.
> 
> ...


now that i know that i will. I always use gloves. But these are surgical so like nothing. I still act like i got shot every time i get stung. Not much swelling but i have not desensitized to the sting yet.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

kaizen said:


> sun but i've had a frame laying on top of a hive watching the queen in the sun for 20 minutes before without issue. a plastic cage shouldn't have cooked her in that short of a time


The frame has pretty darn high thermal mass (compared to a single bee) and creates the temperature/humidity the same as in hive for few minutes around itself.
It warms OR cools the bees on it - for few minutes, but that is enough.

A single bee *in a cage* in the sun, on the other hand, unable to thermo-regulate itself alone.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

kaizen said:


> No attendants as she was going to be released in an hour. she was set down literally for 5-7 minutes.


Curious here - what is the logistical point of caging a queen for an hour? 
Alone in a cage for an hour?
Cross-hive transfer?


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

kaizen said:


> now that i know that i will. I always use gloves. But these are surgical so like nothing. I still act like i got shot every time i get stung. Not much swelling but i have not desensitized to the sting yet.


OK, I can see the point for the thin gloves.
Depending on the case (say, defensive bees), it actually a good idea to wear nitrile gloves to reduce a chance of accidental jerking while holding a queen. 
Need to have a steady hold.


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## psm1212 (Feb 9, 2016)

virgin or mated?


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## Ryan Williamson (Feb 28, 2012)

kaizen said:


> I'll have to search it out. This baffles me. It was 85 here and i took her out of a 95 degree hive. Do they overheat themselves in the cage as opposed to running around on a frame on top of a hive?


Im guessing she died from a combination of heat and lack of food/water. I would imagine that alone in a cage can get quite a bit hotter than on the frame. Plus on the frame she has access to food via attendants which she did not get in the cage. Many summers ago I accidentally left a queen in a marking tube in full shade on the ground for a week below a nuc. Enough bees joined her on the ground to keep her alive!


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## kaizen (Mar 20, 2015)

GregV said:


> Curious here - what is the logistical point of caging a queen for an hour?
> Alone in a cage for an hour?
> Cross-hive transfer?


Sold her to someone local. Literally ten minutes away. Mated


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

kaizen said:


> Sold her to someone local. Literally ten minutes away. Mated


If sold - must have attendants.
You don't know how long she will be in the cage, in fact.
Should not care either.
10 minutes away or 24 hour shipping is irrelevant and not an excuse.
I would not sell otherwise - you are risking someone else's purchased queen.


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## kaizen (Mar 20, 2015)

GregV said:


> If sold - must have attendants.
> You don't know how long she will be in the cage, in fact.
> Should not care either.
> 10 minutes away or 24 hour shipping is irrelevant and not an excuse.
> I would not sell otherwise - you are risking someone else's purchased queen.


Since i was driving it over and installing it i didnt feel it was a risk.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

kaizen said:


> Since i was driving it over and installing it i didnt feel it was a risk.


Plugging few attendants in is a very cheap insurance.
Just another day - 10 minute drive took 30+ minutes.
Anyway, this is your business and you run it your way.


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## psm1212 (Feb 9, 2016)

kaizen said:


> Since i was driving it over and installing it i didnt feel it was a risk.


I wouldn't have put attendants in her cage for that. I often run unattended queens from my mating yards to my outyards that routinely take me 15 - 30 minutes. I have not had problems. I turn the AC off in my truck and crack the windows. No attendants. No feed. They usually ride in my cup holders. 

Not saying that attendants wouldn't help a distressed queen. But I don't think the lack of attendants was the sole cause of death for a mated queen left in a cage for <10 minutes.


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## KRhodes (Jan 31, 2014)

Never lay a caged queen with or with out attendents in the sun. I learned that one the hard way too.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Tough year here for raising queens. Too cold, too wet, then too hot. The July 3rd catch...had to set up a canopy for shade so I could keep the caged queens as cool as possible. And, to keep myself shaded...I sit at my table and mark/cage all the queens. Then took them home in air conditioned truck, and onto my living room table. Over the next two days I lost more than a dozen of those queens. Dead queens. Dead attendants. Never had this happen before. Maybe one once in a great while. All I can think...it was the heat. Sure didn't help with my queen orders. I hate canceling orders.


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## Jack Grimshaw (Feb 10, 2001)

Bought 2 Qs last month at a field day from a breeder.
He brings Qs individually caged in a battery box with plenty of bees and a lg damp sponge.Temps were upper 80s but he kept them in the shade.Qs were carried home in a paper lunch bag with small holes punched with a pencil and attendants on the outside of the cages.
Mike,didn't you do the same when you brought the virgins to EAS in Del?


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## kaizen (Mar 20, 2015)

KRhodes said:


> Never lay a caged queen with or with out attendents in the sun. I learned that one the hard way too.


ayuh........now i know i'll never do again


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Jack Grimshaw said:


> Mike,didn't you do the same when you brought the virgins to EAS in Del?


Mine had attendants in the cages. Don’t remember about Zac’s.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Did you set the queen cage on the hive next door? I've had the bees next door kill a queen when I did that. Then there is the heat, as already mentioned. I put the cage in my pocket so next door bees don't attack. I pretty much always put attendants in. I have never used marshmallows...


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## kaizen (Mar 20, 2015)

Michael Bush said:


> Did you set the queen cage on the hive next door? I've had the bees next door kill a queen when I did that. Then there is the heat, as already mentioned. I put the cage in my pocket so next door bees don't attack. I pretty much always put attendants in. I have never used marshmallows...


Yea not sure where i heard the marshmallow thing but know thats not standard. gotta make some fondant next year. 
The cover was on the hive and there were zero bees on her cage. Had to be the heat/sun. And the lack of attendants maybe.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Using a marshmallow is a quick hack but does not give you the necessary delay in release. A little Karo and some powdered sugar makes a much better candy plug. I keep some in a Rubbermaid container so it is ready to use when I need it.


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## kaizen (Mar 20, 2015)

JWPalmer said:


> Using a marshmallow is a quick hack but does not give you the necessary delay in release. A little Karo and some powdered sugar makes a much better candy plug. I keep some in a Rubbermaid container so it is ready to use when I need it.


It doesn't get hard sitting around? I didn't need the delay so wasn't worried. Its possible she might have got stuck in it and suffocated. it was sticky and she was stuck in it when i shook the cage after seeing she wasn't moving.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Nope, stays soft whith the lid on. I keep it in the drawer with my queen clips and cages.

The melted marshmallow was your proof that heat was the issue with the queen.


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