# Regression to Small Cell



## Climber (Mar 15, 2007)

I've begun regressing my hives to small cell. I know this process isn't easy. My goal is to have all the brood frames replaced by fall. I've done it several ways with 4 of my colonies. One way I took a hive that was all in a single hive body and put a hive body with small cell foundation on top. I took the two center frames out of the bottm and put them in to the top two center slots and placed two frames with small cell foundation in the center two slots in the bottom hive body. They've actually been drawing out the comb well. 

My questions really are around when to pull the large cell frames out. I hate to pull frames with brood so what I have been doing is taking the frames with new eggs. Not all of them at once mind you but a frame at a time. When I pull frames is the process to put the new frames in the center positions and move the other frames towards the outside wall?

One thing I did do is I pulled a couple of frames that were ready for the bees to start emerging and moved them to the outside of the hive body hoping by the end of this week most would of emerged and I can remove them from the hive empty. Was that a wrong thing to do?

I don't see a good reason to pull the large cell frames full of honey in the brood chamber so I had planed on leaving those until the honey is gone or until next spring. Is that thinking correct?

My intention is to be all small cell because I think it gives the bees a better shot without having to be treated for mites. I have bought 5 other already established small cell colonies so I'll split those and build my apriary from here on out with small cell but I wanted to see if I could get the 6 large cell hives regressed.

I've seen a lot of talk about culling the comb and I'm not exactly clear what that means or when you do it. Can someone explain that concept and what to look for to show when it should be done.

Thanks
Rich


----------



## Doorman (Nov 27, 2006)

first of all when you pull the large cell frames out, you are culling the comb. If you don't use chemicals (including essential oils) you only need to cull them when they get old and black. I think the recomendation for culling is 2 frames from each brood box every year. That rotates all the combs out every 5 years.
as for the large cell, I'm in the same position as you. I have small cell in the top chamber and medium cell in the bottom. In the spring I'll reverse the boxes. All of the medium cell will be empty and I can pull it and replace it with small cell


----------



## Climber (Mar 15, 2007)

I bounced the replacing the older frames off an old time beek and they said they've never done that and it wasn't necessary. I was wondering if others had experience with this.


----------



## Doorman (Nov 27, 2006)

Climber said:


> I bounced the replacing the older frames off an old time beek and they said they've never done that and it wasn't necessary. I was wondering if others had experience with this.


The whole replacing frames thing is fairly new. It results mainly from the fact that beeswax will absorb chemical over time. I think the primary emphasis is coumaphos which is stored at the highest rate. With the recent emphasis on using fewer chemicals in the hive, and suspicion of chemical buildup as a contributing factor to various hive performance issues and CCD, comb rotation is being promoted along with other things under the heading of "Best Practices"
Both coumaphos and methyl salicylate are toxic to bees at certain concentration s and are readily stored in the bees wax. What effect that has on the development of larvae and such has not been determined that I know of.

Personally I file this under "Makes some sense and couldn't hurt"
As for what is necessary, that is determined by the individual beekeepers goals. It's not necessary to requeen every year or even ever but it is becoming the norm.


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>My questions really are around when to pull the large cell frames out. I hate to pull frames with brood so what I have been doing is taking the frames with new eggs.

New eggs are the LEAST brood investment for the bees. Capped brood is the MOST brood investment for the bees.

> Not all of them at once mind you but a frame at a time. When I pull frames is the process to put the new frames in the center positions and move the other frames towards the outside wall?

That's what I would do until there is no where to move them.

>One thing I did do is I pulled a couple of frames that were ready for the bees to start emerging and moved them to the outside of the hive body

As in external to the hive body? Or just the position closest to the outside edge?

> hoping by the end of this week most would of emerged and I can remove them from the hive empty. Was that a wrong thing to do?

As long as there are enough bees to cover them I wouldn't worry about it.

>I don't see a good reason to pull the large cell frames full of honey in the brood chamber

As long as they have stores, I would. Easier to pull honey than brood.

> so I had planed on leaving those until the honey is gone or until next spring. Is that thinking correct?

I would pull it now.


----------



## Climber (Mar 15, 2007)

Thanks for the input from both of you.


----------



## hummingberd (Aug 26, 2006)

some people use the culling to describe the process of regressing. I'm not sure how much research you have done on small cell, but my understanding is that it takes a few rounds for the bees to make the right size cells. Hence the idea of regressing. So if you give bees from Large Cell comb a sheet of small cell foundation, they will make cells that might be something like 5.2 (down from 5.4) once all the frames in that hive are drawn out, give them more empty frames, and they'll hopefully make somthing around 4.95. You would switch the 5.2 foundation for the 4.95 and so on and so on. Until you get down to small cell (4.9 or smaller) That's how I have come to understand it. I hope I'm getting this right. 

If anyone catches me messing up my explanation, feel free to jump in and correct me.

-K-


----------



## Climber (Mar 15, 2007)

I think that is probably correct. I'll be measuring the cell size once I get this phase complete.


----------



## fat/beeman (Aug 23, 2002)

*s/c*

why not just buy bees already on small cell such as a nuc? there's no regressing to that.
Don


----------



## Bizzybee (Jan 29, 2006)

Have you considered putting on a second box with an excluder? Move your brood combs above the excluder one or two at a time. I didn't catch the strength of the hives.
If there is honey left over and the bees don't move it or use it, extract it or set it out for the bees to rob out.


----------

