# Future of Beekeeping



## Mitch (Jul 7, 2003)

Some good points Berry.
For the short time i have been in bees 6 years now.It seem i have read about bee labs allready being closed.

You can see from this site and i my area that beekeeping has more intrest in the last few years.There have been several commercial guys go out within 50 to 75 miles from here and no one replaced them that i know of.

I live in farm country and that to is changeing,but in the opposite direction.It looks like the farmers are getting fewer and and the amount of lad they farm gets larger all the time.

I think alot of the hobbie beekeepers will grow into sideliners.
Bob


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

I have seen one of the largest operations 
I know off shut down this year. They ran
at least 10,000 colonies with pollination
contracts from Maine to California. They
had a presence in Calif, ND, and Texas.

Perhaps there is a window for smaller
(500 to 1000) operation to utilize. A
smaller, frugal operation may be able 
to eekk out a living. At least I am 
hoping to....

As to hobbiest increase or decrease...
I have no idea. Has it really?? Or are
they just more visable due to the internet?


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## honeyman46408 (Feb 14, 2003)

""Some good points Berry."" (as always)

I see the same trend in my area, I have been in bees for 8 years now and have seen one faimly go "comercial" and the three largest keepers in our club are in their 70s and when we have a club meeting it looks like an old folks meeting (for the most part) 

Our club promotes hobbie BKing but some younger folks are leaning toward sideline but not comerical.

I wish I would have goten in eairlier in life but would never have wanted to make my livivng with BEES (to much work)


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Far from it. On a graph over say 100 years, commercial beekeeping as we know it today would be almost be nothing at the start. Todays growing almond industry, along growing food supply demands from a growing population, will cuase commercial beekeeping to grow. Yes, the numbers have dipped, due to ageing beekeepers and mite problems. On any graph showing numbers there will always be ebbs and flows, up and down. The pollination business over the years has been under paid. Shortages have cause prices to go up. Prices go up, numbers of beekeepers will follow. Its called supply and demand.

The bee industry, research money, and other effort is for one primary thing, protection of the food industry. Honey is seconday. Hobbiests are not an issue. 

The saving grace for much research money and bee attention is the potential spread of AHB. This will keep some money flowing and used as justification within many states to continue to fund inspection programs and research projects.

I do think breeders will be affected more in the future. Regional or local breeders have a great opportunity. AHB and bee lines adapted to particular climates will change where beekeepers get bees. I think more effort in local breeding and individual efforts will come to be due to stortages in queen/bee, inferior product, and crappy service.

The value of beekeeping is constantly being devalued by people providing free pollination in exchange for honey sites, a lack of public knowledge and public perception of beekeepers.

The demand for bees in at an all time high. Call any commercial outfit, any state agriculture department, and and growers council. If you have bees and can't find a contract, you should not be in business. 

Pollination is in demand. Bees and queens are in demand. Local honey is in demand. Someone will fill it.

Gotta cut it short. Have to run.....


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## Bob Harrison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hello All,
This post is not about "gloom & doom" but only speaking about the state of the industry in the future from the front lines. Hopefully I will be wrong about what I see as happening today in some areas.

California almond pollination has sparked life into the commercial industry but has also sent smaller outfits out of business. To quote a large California almond broker from last spring:
" some commercial beekeepers will have to wire for bus fare to get home and their outfits will be for sale in the bee magazines". 

The problem has came about in many instances by poor planning and should not be blammed on the almond industry.

I was told yesterday I need to make sure people understand the almond industry is not to blame on the phone from California in future articles on almond pollination.

However the almond industry keeps putting out a *2007 season* $160 a hive almond fee carrot ( one involved person told me they considered doing a $160-200 fee *with 12 frame average in the fine print*).

Brokers & growers need to explain in large print what the standards are in fine print say what they are willing to pay for hives meeting those standards and the price paid for hives not meeting those standards. Also if hives not meeting a certain frame count will be rejected!

These 8-10 frame standards are tough to meet in January! Surely you hobby & sideline beekeepers have sneaked a peak in a hive in January? Take a look this January in one hive. 

The hardest hit today in commercial beekeeping will not come from mites or the weather but from the opening (only grower & broker talk right now) of the Mexican border to almond polination. Prices will drop to all time lows. Out of state beekeepers will not come.

Both associations AHPA & ABF are working on the China purity standards. Once established I believe the China import problem will be slowed to a level to keep bulk honey prices at least above the cost of production. 

Cheap foreign honey has closed many a commercial door.

I have said at national meetings for many years the only way the commercial industry will survive *healthy* in the U.S. is to give the beekeeping industry similar programs as other farmers receive.
1.crop insurance
2. replacement costs for pesticide kills (dropped around 1978)
3. expanded research on commercial beekeeping problems 

Its not rocket science why most large beekeeping operations are "hand me down". 

To get started in commercial beekeeping to day is not much different than large scale farming. The start up costs in most instances can not be repaid with profits from the operation.

NEVER buy a beekeeping operation without a page to page look at the books! 

Sideline is still profitable for the most part but the tools of the small commercial sure help with many of the labor aspects. 

The loss of commercial beekeeping in the U.S. will mean the loss of many jobs other than beekeeping as many of the fruits & vegtables we buy now produced in the U.S. will come from out of country.

A common U.S. beekeeper saying:
" Will the chinese do the U.S. pollination?" 

In my operation I need both honey & pollination to survive. One is as important as the other. 

All three of the migratory operations in Missouri are going to run in the red this year . I am allready pumping money into the commercial operation to keep afloat. The last year of a bumper honey crop was 1997. We used to say once every five years!

Retail sales remain strong!


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

Could we be on the verge of a tital wave of pollination oportunities related to biofuel seed stocks? I was asked this by the Oregon Departmant Of Agriculture.
Depending on who you believe, Umpteen bazillion acres may go into canola production alone.
Oregon has a very healthy specialty seed crop industry. However, the threat of cross pollination with other varietys has canola production on hold for now.
Meadowfoam is an oil seed crop that has really taken off here in Oregon.
Many of my fellow beekeepers have pollinated meadowfoam for the last few years.
My grower doubled his plantation of this valuable crop this year.
So all doom & gloom aside, there are other possibilities on the horison as well.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

>>Could we be on the verge of a tital wave of pollination oportunities related to biofuel seed stocks?
I think we are.I've been following this with a lot of interest.I see some opportunities coming down the road for those who are ready.Cheap fuel days are gone forever.So the upside of that is biofuel can be economical to produce at these price levels.Canola is the main one for biodiesal but safflower and cottonseed too.So there will be more honey production opportunities as the acreage increases.I may be wrong,but I feel more optimistic about the bee business than I have in years.(maybe that big almond pollination check had something to do with that).Bob is right-its an everchanging business but thats what keeps it from being a dull job.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Nobody pays for Canola pollination here at 
least. They even look at you like they should
get a cut of the honey......

A dark cloud I see in pollination is the rapidly
advancing GM field. It has been speculated that
in the not to distant future that crops will
not require insect pollination at all.


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## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

The biggest problem I see with the oil crops grown for biodiesel is the dependence on fossil fuels to grow those very crops. Right now, even the very best biodiesel operations don't produce as much fuel from the crops as goes into growing the crops and converting them into fuel. But that's getting into a "Tailgater"-type thread.

"A dark cloud I see in pollination is the rapidly
advancing GM field. It has been speculated that
in the not to distant future that crops will
not require insect pollination at all." -Sundance

Where have you heard this one? And which crops does this rumor involve? (Probably more technical than suited for this board, but how would that work, anyway?)


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Apparently theres a difference in canola seed production for oil(no fee) and production for seed for other growers(fees paid).I would love to see the grain fields around here replaced with canola, fees or not.


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## Finman (Nov 5, 2004)

.

Here and in USA number of beekeepers has dropped 30% and still total yields remain same. It means that small keepeepers stop their hobby. Varroa is one reason but to sell one's yield is more and more difficult. Markets want not deal with "small players". Professionals are taking their place. 

If you want to sell on open markets your honey handling must be on official level. 

If it comes too good honey year no one want your honey.

Professionals pack for selling imported honey too. They have their investments and they cannot alow them lay useless.

Open markets? In Finland honey price is double compared to Germany. Why?

.


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

>>>>It has been speculated that
in the not to distant future that crops will
not require insect pollination at all." -Sundance
Where have you heard this one? And which crops does this rumor involve? <<<<

The first that comes to mind is almonds. It is my understanding that 'they' are working on a self-pollinating almond tree right now. That would sure put a crimp in the ol' business plan....
Sheri


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## peggjam (Mar 4, 2005)

I guess if you only depend on honey for income, then the bee business might not look so bright. You need to diversify and do alittle of everything, honey, queens, nucs, pollination, pollen, ect. The problem is finding the right blend of these activities to maximize profit.


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## Nick Noyes (Apr 28, 2005)

I can see the pollination business getting better. Why wouldn't it? There are less honeybees now than there ever has been. Did anyone think 5 years ago we would be talking about $160 almond pollination today? I think money wise the industry is in o.k. shape. You didn't used to see everyone driving around in 1 tons less than 10 years old. 

It is definately a changing industry just like every other industry in the U.S. Nobody ever said it was an easy job.

Sundance, that bee outfit that folded up in ND. If it's the one I am thinking of was only started up a couple years ago.


I will probably get some flack over this post but this how I see it. Not all grim and dark.


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

>>>Nobody pays for Canola pollination here at 
least. They even look at you like they should
get a cut of the honey......<<<
This is where we as an industry, conduct the studies that show the enhanced pollination and increased tonnage per acre, then assess an appropriate fee for rental.
A similar study was conducted many years ago in Oregon for blueberry pollination.
Now, many, many acres of Blueberries demand honeybee pollination.
>>>The first that comes to mind is almonds. It is my understanding that 'they' are working on a self-pollinating almond tree right now.<<<
Yes, and they do self pollinate. But at a greatly reduced yeild that once again demonstrates the value of our service.
The only advantage to those trees is 'some' nut-set where none or poor insect pollination takes place.
I think that, above all, it is important that we understand and convey the value of increased tonnage per acre that our bees provide.
Here in Oregon for example, we have many wild pollinators that when conditions are just right, CAN provide a so-so fruit set in certain crops. This may happen every 3 to 5 years or so.
Who cares?
What we provide is the brute force in an unnatural monoculture plantation, of millions of honeybee pollinators just at the crutial time.
Our value is the ADDED tonnage yelded per acre.
Then the price of hive rental begins to look like a real bargain.
We must convey this with confidence.


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## beegee (Jun 3, 2003)

North Carolina is way far behind in numbers of hives needed for pollination. Most beekeepers in NC are hobbyists or sideliners. We need 4000, 10-hive, or 400, 100-hive beekeepers right now to catch up. If it costs roughly $200 per hive (retail)to start a small beeyard, it seems like a lot of money for little tangible return. Most people would rather spend $2000 on a big-screen TV than on 10 beehives.

It doesn't matter whether a beekeeper is a hobbyist or commercial if there are no new beekeepers, especially YOUNG beekeepers, entering the field. Beekeeping is regarded by most people as such an arcane craft or one that is fraught with danger. Very few young people want to work as hard as previous generations. All of the talk about AHB and varroa destructor and SHB doesn't seem to faze John Q. Public, other than instructing him as tothe high risk nayure of the business. Once the gray-headed majority of beekeepers dies off and no one steps into the gap, it will be too late. NC's "Free Bee" program last year(Golden Leaf Foundation tobacco settlement grant)was designed to help farmers transition into beekeeping as a lucrative enterprise, especially for pollination of alternative crops. It did spawn a lot of interest among NC residents. But we need to do more. We need a vigorous educational effort, saturating the media and our elementray and secondary schools, an active recruitment program featuring mentoring or apprenticeships, and most of all a sound profit motive for entering and staying in beekeeping. Where beekeeping was once a cultural norm in a rural society, it is now an anomaly in a post-modern, post-industrial primarily urban society. Even farmers don't want to get invovlved inbeekeeping, although they seem to appreciate the role of bees in production. 

The biggest challenge as I see is figuring out how to coalesce contrary, independent beekeepers into a unified, powerful political and economic force. Our local bee club wanted to start a buying co-op to buy woodenware, etc in bulk to save on freight and get volume discounts. It ain't happening...some will only use Kelley, other prefer Brushy Mt or Dadant. If we can't get them to buy from the same supplier to save money, I'm still pondering an effective way to get them to band together to make money.


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## MichelleB (Jan 29, 2006)

I've been reading this thread and the commercial/pollination threads with great interest. This is my first season keeping bees (four colonies now) and it's been my goal all along to expand my "operation" so that it becomes a viable component of our small farm enterprise. At the very least, having local honey to add to my products will broaden my appeal to local customers.

I'm fortunate in that my "day job" is extremely flexible, and I can take on more or less contracts according to my budget (or lack thereof), so beekeeping would be a good fit if I decided to wade toward the deeper end of things. 

These are the questions I'd like answers to: 

1. What's the smallest number of standard-meeting colonies a reputable broker will accept? 

2. Is there a precedent for hobbyists who have banded together to send their collective hives to pollination, via brokers or direct negotiation?

3. Anybody here in the PNW who wants to go in on cooperative woodenware buying, gimme a shout. I'm game. Thinking of making a run to Shastina this winter. And if not this year, certainly next.

[ August 24, 2006, 10:02 PM: Message edited by: Lupine ]


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

largely I would agree with Barry in regards to the overall trends. beyond this I would suggest that where ever a large commercial firm goes under this does represent a niche for someone a bit smaller and nimbler to play to some advantage .

as at least one member has suggested the failure of many of these commercial concerns are created by the failure of these firms to 'make a crop'. which does suggest that bulk price for honey is not so much a culprit as lack of volume in production. it is my long held belief that loss of habitat (bee pasture) is a prime factor in this trend, and shifting weather patterns a substantial secondary factor .


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## Bob Harrison (Mar 15, 2005)

Lupine,
1. I think would depend on you as to the number of hives as you are paying the trucking from Oregon. 10 hives on a semi might not be smart.

Each broker is different and some are not taking on new beekeepers. Call and ask. Ads will start soon in the bee magazines.

In a short year you might be suprised the low number the broker might accept. 

Actually doing pollination for almond growers needing only a small number of hives 5-20 used to bring a higher fee and I can not see why you could not expect to get paid in full on delivery.

Once we were doing a apple orchard taking over 500 hives when we noticed a pickup truck with 4-5 hives unloading by hand. We did not really care as we only do whole truck or half loads. Out of curosity I asked the owner of the orchard. He said the kid drove in and asked if he could rent his bees. The orchard owner said the kid impressed him with his willing to work so he gave his approval. Large orchards hardly ever are tied to a single beekeeper. My partner and I don't start the truck for less than a half truck load. Many California brokers might gladly toss a small orchard your way.

2.Certainly. Happens all the time. Even commercial beekeepers bring their hives into the holding area and a semi might contain several beekeepers hives. Brokers only tries to keep the semi load together. We each know our own hives because of certain markings. My pallets are marked in many ways and would be hard to keep me from ID if stolen.

3.Buying together is common. Beekeepers which help me can always buy when I buy supplies at a savings. I hauled equipment back from Florida last year for another beekeeper along with mine. I have hauled quite a bit of equipment for Mid con from other states when I have room. I WILL NOT haul in place of mine but if I have got the room why not.

Excellent questions!


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## Bob Harrison (Mar 15, 2005)

News flash,
Wholesale price of honey on the rise . 
Source:
Three Missouri beekeepers, Beekeeper from Nebraska, Beekeeper from Georgia, beekeeper from South Dakota and the Midwest beekeepers honey hot line.
Last night was phone call night.

Small beekeepers on the list which buy honey need to lock in honey you need now to avoid higher prices.

Richard Adee predicts some types of honey could reach $2 a pound and most will run in the buck fifty range for large amounts (10,000 pound lots).

Beekeepers are moving large lots now at $1.25 I was told last night.

I am glad I locked my honey( as I posted on the forum a month ago). I bought a month ago( at a price I thought was high for water white).

I had a short crop so had to buy honey this year for the first time in years. My friends in Nebraska got a bumper crop and I am happy for those beekeepers!


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## MichelleB (Jan 29, 2006)

Thanks, Rob, for answering my questions. 

I used to think I'd need thousands of hives to make it worth anything, but I'd guess that a few hundred well-managed colonies, and a well-managed budget, might be enough for what I have in mind.

Cool.

I've got a lot to learn first, including getting my first four colonies through their first winter, but this thread has made me take a more serious look at sidelining. Hee hee, almost sounds like it's the DUTY of the small operation to get into the pollenation racket!


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## Trevor Mansell (Jan 16, 2005)

News Flash,
Richard Adee has lost his mind!!!
I sold some honey last week, I should have taken a picture of "mount China" about a gazilion drums of chineese honey.

[edit by admin]

[ August 25, 2006, 10:07 PM: Message edited by: Admin ]


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

who is Richard Adee? and why has he lost his mind? detail at 6?


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## honeyman46408 (Feb 14, 2003)

Richard Adee is the largest Beekeeper in the USA and probably the world, last I heard 80,000 hives!


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

>>advancing GM field. It has been speculated that
in the not to distant future that crops will
not require insect pollination at all

Self pollinating canola isnt much of a concern to the farmer, there already is more than adequate pollinators about thier fields to accomplish the job. Canola being an open pollinated plant.

But in crops as buckwheat, where pollination is absoulutely needed, adding high populations of bees per acre will show a distinct difference in crop yeild. 
The reason why they have developed a self pollinating Buckwheat.

It would of already been developed in canola if it showed a significant advantage. Buckwheat is a very small crop in the scale of agriculture, and has very limited attention for development as compared to canola.


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## power napper (Apr 2, 2005)

>>advancing GM field. It has been speculated that
in the not to distant future that crops will
not require insect pollination at all
--Don't get rid or all your bees just yet! I seem to remember many moons ago when electronics just started to bloom, then came the computer era and we were instructed that the world was changing fast and that the computer would make it a "paperless world". Well there is still paper around.


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## Trevor Mansell (Jan 16, 2005)

I believe alot of countries in Europe wont sell GM type crops. There is also a big push against it here in the U.S.


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## Sarge (Jun 26, 2006)

There are many areas of "business" if you will that harvest directly or indirectly from nature. From farming, to fishing, to logging, to trapping, to beekeeping. All are under some kind of attack.
If any survive it will be those who can show a broad range of ties to different industries. Logging can, and farming can. The rest are in our hands.


wayne


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## Bob Harrison (Mar 15, 2005)

Trevor,
I don't doubt you did see a huge amount of drums from China. Florida is one of the main entry points.

If you try to sell honey to a packer big on imports you will always get the low price or:

"we are not buying right now but send a sample"

Florida has always been a tough market to sell bulk honey unless Tupelo or orange. 

To ship drums from my area to packers in California is about ten cents a pound. From your area about twenty cents a pound.

Still might be an option.

We have got a large packer which sells argentine honey. Only a couple area beekeepers i know of have ever been able to sell the packer honey. He takes the honey but ALWAYS a very low price.

The four largest sellers of honey to chain stores in Missouri (keep little is any hives of their own) buy their honey from Richard Adee. I have unloaded quite a few semi's of his honey through the years for the largest local packer. I have also bought Adee honey for my bakery account. 

All honey is not equal to packers. A wide difference exists in loads of Adee honey but the honey is NEVER misrepresented. 

If he says it is extra light amber the honey is. If amber the honey is. if mixed with canola the honey is. Richard Adee & family run an honest business. When you call the office he has usually got many loads to choose from a different prices.

I personally have to be desperate for honey for my markets before I would by canola honey or honey with smartweed mixed in from the Dakotas. I also do not care for honey uncapped with a boganschutz like Adee honey is.

To sum things up when you see in the bee magazines prices for honey based on color alone it is only a part of the issue. 

When honey is judged at your fairs is the honey judged on color alone?

If you are a small packer and you buy a load of off tasting or smells like dirty socks honey (but the color is extra light amber!) then you could ruin sales.

Big packers would blend away the problem but the little guy takes a hit!

In the midwest I only produce white to water white and sell very little wildflower. Never a problem to sell white honey for top dollar. 

Bakery grade honey is hard to move at top dollar (and at times even find a buyer). Only bottle honey brings top dollar.

I know Trevor understnds the above but perhaps others on the list do not understand the U.S. honey market on a large scale.


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## Spigold (Jul 31, 2004)

Canola pollination for certified seed (that's for planting Canola folks) currently runs $20.00 a hive here in Eastern Oregon. That's with 3 hives per acre(mandated by contract)! As you would guess with that many bees in an area honey yields are low or the bees just make enough to survive. 

Canola grown for oil benefits from bees, and this is a big BUT, Canola CAN receive multiple applications of insecticides over a growing season. The necessity of removing bees multiple times from a location and a honey that has been said "to crystallize on the way back to the hive." Makes Canola a questionable crop for the beek.


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## Trevor Mansell (Jan 16, 2005)

Rob.
I understand what you are saying ,I just dont see honey prices going to $2.00 per lb anytime soon. Majority of the honey that is produced and sold in the US is bakery , Wich is used in industrial food service. Table honey is usually top dollar but it is a very small share of the market. 
Until they can do something about China dumping honey here the price will always remain low.


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## Bob Harrison (Mar 15, 2005)

Spigold,
"to crystalize on the way back to the hive" is a bit harsh but you have got to heat the hell out of canola honey to keep jars from crytalizing on store shelves from what I have seen.

My friend Allen Dick said he had big problems with canola honey crytalization the year he did canola pollination. Allen said he had many supers waiting to be extracted which were crystalized. 

The canola honey I have seen had a light color and good flavor.

Canola honey does come out of the Dakotas in certain areas. I saw a load of around 60 drums which were solid a week after extraction in the Dakotas.

Trevor,
If China sets "pure honey" standards (big push in China for such standards) *like in the U.S.* the flow might be slowed down. Many (AHPA leaders) believe then China might actually then become a honey importer (but I would not hold my breath).

China produces some white honey which packers like. Many packers like the China honey better than Argentine (which can be a rust color with *in my opinion* has an off flavor).


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Well, this sure got off on a tangent. So pollination will continue to be a big part of commercial beekeeping according to some. I still believe the number of beekeepers will continue to rise for the sideline beekeeper and continue to fall for the commercial guy. To that end, I still figure there will have to be a shift in the role the USDA plays and journals as mentioned and even suppliers. The commercial guy is stuck on a narrow path of options for keeping his business afloat, whereas the small guy has time and niche marketing to play with.

- Barry


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Sure alot of 50year plus guys up here!


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

50 is just getting started Ian!


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

>>>Sure alot of 50year plus guys up here!<<<
Here too, but I have noticed a lot more interest in some younger folks. Sons of 2 beek friends have decided to get in the business after being off doing something else. We've been contacted by more young people in the past few years wanting advice, etc. My husband always said that young people didn't want to work this hard,ha. I think they don't mind working hard if they can get paid..When we had 60c honey of course no one wanted in but the high prices of a couple years ago and now pollination has made it a bit more attractive. 
Good thing, too, as we were starting to wonder who would buy our equipment when we retired!









Sheri


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## Panhandle Bee man (Oct 22, 2003)

I know 5 "next generation" beekeepers, they are still small (500 hives), but are growing larger each year. A new entry into the commericial beekeeping is corporate beekeeping I know of 2 outfits that are partially owned by corporations, and forsee that there will be more in future. (Paramount will figure out that they can buy bee hives for $110, instead of renting them for $160).
I also know of several outfits that get 6-7 pollinaton contracts per year ($60-65 per hive per contract). Commericial beekeeping is far from dead, and will continue to dominate the industry. IMO sideliners are in more peril than any other section of beekeeping. The continued suburbanization of the country results in loss of beeyards/forage. The corporatization of farming results in loss of beeyards (the company doesn't want the liability, and isn't convinced by the gift of a jar of honey), and the sideliner gets squeezed out, or downsize to what they can find yards for, for a growing number of places in the US, it is becoming a very difficult thing to keep bees as a sideline.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

>>The corporatization of farming results in loss of beeyards 

Trees are dissapearing, and old yards are hard to find. Year round yards are starting to be well valued.


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