# Linseed Oil as hive dip/preservative?



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I have tried soaking hives in it. I was not impressed. I think they turned dark and soft just as soon as if they were untreated. Not sure why. I was using "boiled" which is probably not really boiled...


----------



## KGB (Jun 25, 2014)

I have used raw linseed for "eating surface" areas of kids playground set, as it is "safe". My understanding is the boiled linseed oil has additives (mineral spirits) to aid in penetration. I use the boiled linseed on deck and non eating areas of the playground-apply with 2 gal. hand sprayer. Only 3 years ago started applying, wood will uptake oil every year.


----------



## westernbeekeeper (May 2, 2012)

Better to paint then... ?


----------



## NDnewbeek (Jul 4, 2008)

Used boiled linseed oil on a set of hives once. Lasted exactly one winter. Then I was pulling pieces and repainting/repoly-ing.


----------



## Davacoles (Jun 30, 2013)

This came up on Google+ recently. Someone had a solution called Swedish Paint (also called Flour Paint). This site has a good overview of it and if you Google either name you'll find a lot of information. I've thought about giving it a try, but I have a lot of leftover paint to use up first.


----------



## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

Boiled linseed oil (which is indeed no longer boiled, it has metallic "driers" added to cause it to polymerize faster that are toxic) makes a great first primer for boxes. I'd not use it inside, simply because the bees will do a much better job of coating the inside that we do with paint.

Brush on a coat or two, allow to dry a day or so between, then paint with an alkyd primer (which is partially linseed oil!), then do whatever final coat you wish. The point of using the linseed oil is that it will indeed penetrate slightly into the wood, especially on end grain, and then polymerize in place. Alkyd primer binds very well to fresh linseed oil, since it's essentially linseed oil, pigments, and some other polymerizing agents in solvent, and will stick beautifully. The polymerized oil seals the end grain and cracks around joints, too.

Without a protective coat of paint, the polymerized linseed oil is vulnerable to UV radiation, beings as the UV will rupture the chemical bonds in the oil and destroy it's integrity. A summer of full sun and you will have essentially an untreated box, no point in that.

For longevity, paint is definitely the way to go. Use good primer, good paint, and don't "stretch" it, and it will last decades.

Peter


----------



## AR Beekeeper (Sep 25, 2008)

Deleted, the information duplicated the post above.


----------



## Terry C (Sep 6, 2013)

westernbeekeeper said:


> I am looking at methods of wood preservation alternative to paint. I have looked at copper naphthenate, wax dipping, etc., and now am checking out linseed oil. Is this a good wood treatment? If not, why not? If so, how do you apply? Dip? soak? brush? spray? Also, do you use raw linseed oil, or boiled? Please input, it is appreciated. Thanks.


 New to beekeeping , but years of experience with wood and finishes . You want boiled linseed oil , the raw doesn't dry . It's usually brushed or rubbed on , let it soak for a while then wipe the excess . Linseed oil is a very good wood preservative because it actually soaks into the wood . That high gloss you sometimes see is the result of hours of rubbing the oil into the wood , and is probably not necessary to the task at hand . You might recall that in the not-so-distant past houses were painted with a mixture of linseed oil and a pigment - usually white lead back then . 
All of my new woodenware is painted with 2 coats of Do It Best "Best Look exterior latex paint and primer in one" . This paint is made by Sherwin-Williams , and is pretty good stuff . I don't know what it retails for but it ain't cheap - I got this gallon off the mis-tint shelf at my local hardware/lumber store for 5 bucks ... this one's actually pastel tint base that is untinted because the can was bent and they couldn't shake it in their machine . Makes a nice bright white semi-glossy finish .


----------



## davidsbees (Feb 22, 2010)

I dip my supers in 80% boiled linseed oil 20% pine rosin. I heat the mixture in a turkey deep fryer to 180 degrees DO NOT OVER HEAT or you will be toast. Then dip the supers I do it on a pretty large scale so it goes quick. It will ad decades to your boxes. I have few boxes done in the late 50's still looking new.


----------



## Colino (May 28, 2013)

westernbeekeeper said:


> I am looking at methods of wood preservation alternative to paint. I have looked at copper naphthenate, wax dipping, etc., and now am checking out linseed oil. Is this a good wood treatment? If not, why not? If so, how do you apply? Dip? soak? brush? spray? Also, do you use raw linseed oil, or boiled? Please input, it is appreciated. Thanks.


I did my TBH with boiled linseed oil and beeswax. Melt the beeswax in the linseed oil and apply it with a brush. That was 3 years ago and the finish still looks good. Some people also add turpentine but which ever way you prepare it use caution because it is flammable. There are lots of videos on YouTube.
Colino


----------



## Cyan (Jan 27, 2015)

I just coated some ware with a 3 part mixture of beeswax, turpentine, and olive oil. After rubbing it into the wood, I decided that I like the appearance but I cannot attest to how long it will last. Note: the weather really hasn't been warm enough for the mixture to properly penetrate the wood- still has a mild pine scent to it which is actually somewhat pleasing.


----------



## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Michael Bush said:


> I have tried soaking hives in it. I was not impressed.


I have not done it to bee boxes but my concern would be that the boxes would glue together and be hard to separate.


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I have not done it to bee boxes but my concern would be that the boxes would glue together and be hard to separate.

You have to let them dry before you use them. It might if you don't. I just wasn't impressed. They did not seem to last any longer than untreated and seemed to get darker and softer sooner.


----------



## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

westernbeekeeper said:


> I am looking at methods of wood preservation alternative to paint. I have looked at copper naphthenate, wax dipping, etc., and now am checking out linseed oil. Is this a good wood treatment? If not, why not? If so, how do you apply? Dip? soak? brush? spray? Also, do you use raw linseed oil, or boiled? Please input, it is appreciated. Thanks.


This might be of interest to you: http://www.cedaroilstore.com/PETRI_WOOD_CONCRETE_PENETRANT_WOOD_SEALER_p/ws6004.htm


----------



## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Hi Benjamin, I had been wondering how you've been doing.  Hope things are going well for you.

I melt & mix linseed oil & bees wax together in a soft paste. Rub it onto the box and into the end grain well, then go over it with a propane torch. It will sizzle as it penetrates. While the surface is still very warm, rub in another coat and let it sit. 
Next day rub it again to distribute any excess paste/oil to dry areas and reduce the stickiness of saturated areas. 

It lasts a couple years in my very wet climate, but all you have to do to refinish it is rub in more paste and a quick pass of a torch. It's fast and easy with no paint or urethane residue to sand off. I like it. And like the ease of which I can refinish it when the time comes. 

I have also stained the pine, then applied this paste. The stain soaks into the box joint ends well and holds up very well when covered with the linseed oil & bees wax.
The finish is dull once it is done.

I've tried many methods of preserving box's and even excellent quality primer and paint can bubble from interior moisture sources.

I don't have a vat to simmer my woodenware. But the propane torch makes a good substitute. 










You can see my torch on the left, sizzling on the right










Finished lid, needs a final wipe.









50/50 linseed oil and beeswax, melted together and cooled. I add a couple drop of lemongrass or other essential oil just to make it smell amazing. You can dilute this mix a little more with additional linseed oil and warm in the microwave before appyling



















I'll use almost a pint like this on a single deep, inner cover & lid.


----------



## rkereid (Dec 20, 2009)

Lauri- Is that raw or boiled linseed oil?

I really like that. I think I'll try it on the latest box build........once it warms up a little!

Richard


----------



## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Pretty sure it was boiled


----------



## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

Boiled linseed oil in todays world isn't boiled, it has heavy metals added as driers. I don't want it inside my hives. Outside it won't last long by itself. Raw linseed oil takes forever to dry, but it is pure linseed oil. The polymerized is true boiled linseed oil, someone took the time to boil it in an enclosed container to make it form polymer chains. It dries faster and better than raw linseed oil, but it is still 100% linseed oil. The "boiled" oil you can buy in most places is actually mostly raw linseed oil, with plasticizers, hardeners, and heavy metals to make it act like true boiled oil, without the time and effort it takes to actually boil it; in other words, it's cheap. All of the linseed oils will self combust, so be careful how you dispose of rags or paper towels that have it on them.


----------



## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

I wonder if the heat from the torch on a raw oil mix would simulate the boiled process enough to form the polymer chains? It does penetrate well when heated.


----------



## rkereid (Dec 20, 2009)

Ross said:


> Boiled linseed oil in todays world isn't boiled, it has heavy metals added as driers. I don't want it inside my hives. Outside it won't last long by itself. Raw linseed oil takes forever to dry, but it is pure linseed oil. The polymerized is true boiled linseed oil, someone took the time to boil it in an enclosed container to make it form polymer chains. It dries faster and better than raw linseed oil, but it is still 100% linseed oil. The "boiled" oil you can buy in most places is actually mostly raw linseed oil, with plasticizers, hardeners, and heavy metals to make it act like true boiled oil, without the time and effort it takes to actually boil it; in other words, it's cheap. All of the linseed oils will self combust, so be careful how you dispose of rags or paper towels that have it on them.


So is there a product on the market that is the polymerized linseed oil without the additives?


----------



## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

In my part of the world (and in Wyoming where the OP writes from), opaque paint to protect the wood from sun and dry air is the best solution. I believe the old pinch-a-penny whitewash was the best -- it allowed the hives to release moisture moderately, while protecting the surface of the wood from UV erosion. 

In my experience:
Multiple coats of gloss paint -- no air exchange, moisture build up
Dipped wax-rosin -- the sun eats these up, no UV protection. The boards cup and crack.

In my old days hanging around boatyards, there was a divide between the fancy yachts and the working Salmon boats. The yachts had acres of brightwork and teak. The Salmon boats had paint. 

Brightwork is a maintenance nightmare and not very practical. Folks decorate their boats with as an aspiration to the status of JP Morgan. Its conspicuous consumption. Paint is (relatively) cheap, and protects the wood. The modern varnishes have amazing UV additives, and such, but they still must be maintained like crazy. Black mold penetrates even the $60/gal "yacht" varnishes at any scratch.

My aesthetic is to the workingman's world. I see the fancy decorated hives, the exotic dipped, the impratical who-haw -- and I think, sheesh, those guys aren't earning a living doing this work -- they are just play-acting.

Don't have much to add about finishes in other climates, but in the arid west -- you cannot do better than protecting the wood from the sun.


----------



## Cyan (Jan 27, 2015)

I thought that there was a product available that was a UV additive for stain, but I can't remember if it was something I seen at a previous job or at a lumber yard. And although JW makes a very good point; when does the application of certain coatings start conflicting with what is best for the bees? If I wasn't at all concerned for this, I'd simply apply creosote and be done.


----------



## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Yup, what I was doing here was few specialty transport box's, not hundreds of standard hives. But Ben asked about linseed oil and I mentioned my experience with it.

It's surprising how much the solar exposure will fade a burned & waxed box. But it repels the rain decently and is easy to touch up when needed. Makes good swarm traps too. The smell is attractive, even when using a new box


----------



## Cyan (Jan 27, 2015)

Lauri,

I do like the appearance of your hives. I may try this with some shelves or furniture at some point, but I'm undecided on how I'll preserve my next batch of ware. There is obviously a need to protect them from rot and I am thinking that I also want something that will help them blend in to the landscape as well as possible. At least until I get a better feel for the other property owners in the area.


----------



## Cyan (Jan 27, 2015)

Lauri,

I do like the appearance of your hives. I may try this with some shelves or furniture at some point, but I'm undecided on how I'll preserve my next batch of ware. There is obviously a need to protect them from rot and I am thinking that I also want something that will help them blend in to the landscape as well as possible- at least until I get a better feel for the other property owners in the area.


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

If you want some that is safer:
https://www2.buildinggreen.com/article/linseed-oil-s-safe-you-and-environment
http://dapwood.com/linseed-oil/

And if you decide to use linseed oil, a reminder (in case you forgot or haven't heard) a rag soaked in linseed oil can spontaneously combust. I've seen them get to the point that they were smoking... so put them somewhere that a fire won't hurt anything... like a metal garbage can, outside, with nothing else in them...


----------



## Cyan (Jan 27, 2015)

Having issues with my computer it seems.


----------



## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

rkereid said:


> So is there a product on the market that is the polymerized linseed oil without the additives?


http://www.triedandtruewoodfinish.com/


----------



## rkereid (Dec 20, 2009)

Ross said:


> http://www.triedandtruewoodfinish.com/


Thanks for the link. Besides the higher price of this type of product, their literature says for inside use only. I imagine adding more beeswax to it would help it become more waterproof. 

But it's hard to deny what's been said here about opaque finishes like paint giving much better UV resistance than any of the clear or semi transparent finishes. UV is probably the main thing breaking down finishes and the wood itself. So paint will give you a less expensive and longer lasting finish. Too bad because it's hard to beat the look of natural wood!


----------



## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

rkereid said:


> Too bad because it's hard to beat the look of natural wood!


So just nail some cedar shingles or clapboards on you boxes and forget about it.


----------



## Texas_Drone (Apr 24, 2014)

Lauri said:


> You can see my torch on the left, sizzling on the right
> 
> http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp340/tweety4926/2015 bees/P2070340_zpscce7lxj9.jpg





Looks great, :thumbsup: 
Can't do that here in the 'hood though...crackheads would snatch 'em up to use for end tables to compliment their rent-a-center decor!


----------



## BeeAttitudes (Dec 6, 2014)

Where does one find pine resin?



davidsbees said:


> I dip my supers in 80% boiled linseed oil 20% pine rosin. I heat the mixture in a turkey deep fryer to 180 degrees DO NOT OVER HEAT or you will be toast. Then dip the supers I do it on a pretty large scale so it goes quick. It will ad decades to your boxes. I have few boxes done in the late 50's still looking new.


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Where does one find pine resin?
http://diamondgforestproducts.com/
http://www.pcchem.com/chemical-listing.html


----------



## davidsbees (Feb 22, 2010)

I have bought it from Mann lake.


----------



## davidsbees (Feb 22, 2010)

I found a picture of my dip tank just dipped some old supers.


----------



## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Michael Bush said:


> >Where does one find pine resin?
> http://diamondgforestproducts.com/
> http://www.pcchem.com/chemical-listing.html


Thanks for the links Michael.
I ordered a bag of pebble style Pine Rosin to add to my beeswax/Linseed oil mixture. I think it will be a better mix for my smaller projects. 

I had made this honey frame holder last year, but never finished it. With a burned in, hand rubbed finish of these natural products, it should smell amazing.


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I have bought it from Mann lake.

Last I looked in their catalog I couldn't find it anymore... I bought about 150 pounds from Mann Lake over the years.


----------



## Colobee (May 15, 2014)

When you have an old iron and lots of beeswax sitting around, you find that you can iron the wax into untreated wood with relative ease ( much like Lauri's torch method). I have a few parts, here & there, that have gone years and years with just a single treatment. Please note my location - high & dry!!!


----------



## Chemguy (Nov 26, 2012)

Lauri said:


> I wonder if the heat from the torch on a raw oil mix would simulate the boiled process enough to form the polymer chains? It does penetrate well when heated.


I think that it's the oxygen in the air that aids the polymerization. Maybe sunlight, too.


----------



## Redeyehunt (Sep 2, 2021)

rkereid said:


> So is there a product on the market that is the polymerized linseed oil without the additives?


I purchased used bee hives over 25 years ago at a auction in Ohio these hives are dark color but are still in use today and very solid. At that action they were selling a dip tank and drying rack for bee box and equipment did not pay much attention because I had never heard of this process. I do not know if the tank had a heater or how long they were soaked but I believe those boxes are now 30 years old and are still solid and have been in constant use for over 25 years in my bee yard all these people are investing in wax dipping to get 10 to15 years need to look into boiled linseed oil. If i was younger I would go research this, pine boxes with paint will never last the same amount of time. The boxes were dipped so it is coated inside and outside never affected the bees or there health.


----------



## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

What is it you are trying to fix? We have painted boxes from the 40's still in service.

Crazy Roland


----------



## Redeyehunt (Sep 2, 2021)

I just think there may be a easier way to preserve wood ware that will last longer than paint. I have never had a painted hive body last more than 15 years and most of them were deeps and were cut down to mediums. I have been operating in Michigan for more than 40 years mabee it is humidity, snow, rain, freezing. I think that boiled linseed may work better than wax dipping. Yes I do not like painting boxes. But I have always used good paint and 2 good coats and probably did not always get back to repaint them immediately when they needed it. And have burned thousands of boxes over the years.


----------



## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Redeye - did you use latex or oil based?

Crazy Roland


----------



## Redeyehunt (Sep 2, 2021)

I just think there may be a easier way to preserve wood ware that will last longer than paint. I have never had a painted hive body last more than 15 years and most of them were deeps and were cut down to mediums. I have been operating in Michigan for more than 40 years mabee it is humidity, snow, rain, freezing. I think that boiled linseed may work better than wax dipping. Yes I do not like painting boxes. But I have always used good paint and 2 good coats and probably did not always get back to repaint them immediately when they needed it.


----------



## Redeyehunt (Sep 2, 2021)

Years ago I used oil now all latex


----------



## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Oil base seems to hold up better.


Crazy Roland


----------



## bentonbee (Jan 31, 2007)

I also think there is differences in wood. Crazy Roland has some 60 to 70 year old supers. Look at windows in old houses. Some of those windows just seemed to wear well. You buy a new wood window and it rots fast. Old growth verses new growth lumber. Just my opinion.


----------



## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

We have found some redwood with my great grandfather's color (green) on the wood. Never pine with green paint He died in the 20's. Many of our roofs have newspaper from 1939. Yes, all of the wood from that period is very fine grained, 

Which oil based paint you use is not as important as how often it is applied.

Crazy Roland


----------



## JConnolly (Feb 21, 2015)

Redeyehunt said:


> I just think there may be a easier way to preserve wood ware that will last longer than paint.


Any clear finish is going to be inferior to opaque paint. Solar UV light breaks down the lignin in the wood. As the lignin breaks down the surface of the wood becomes weak, becomes powder like, and starts to detatch from the wood underneath it. As soon as the wood surface breaks down any finish will delaminate, exposing fresh wood to UV and weather. Oils last longer than clear films but they are still vulnerable to the same lignin break down problem. While you can get clear finishes that have UV inhibitors, they do not provide the protection than an opaque paint offers. UV never reaches the wood with an opaque paint. Get a high grade exterior paint off the mistint rack at your local Sherwin Williams or Benjamin Moore paint store. You'll have better luck finding exterior mistints at the paint stores there than at retail box stores since box stores cater mainly to DIY interior painting. And always prime bare wood before painting. Paint+primer combos are still inferior to primer. No finish lasts forever, maintenance is unavoidable.


----------

