# CCD and Beekeeper Health?



## jrbbees

Pose the question to CDC in Atlanta.


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## sqkcrk

No. What are your symptoms Hal?


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## Countryboy

The virus in CCD is INSECT iridescent virus. This is not the same thing as the human 'getting older' virus, which places stress on us humans and we start having other health issues we never had before. 

I started keeping bees 3 years ago. In the past 3 years, I've gained 30+ pounds. My joints have also started creaking louder.


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## sqkcrk

Which you credit to beekeeping?


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## Roland

If you have a recently acquired symptom, and have ticks in your area, I would suspect a tick born disease before any bee born disease. I received a tick bite, had the bullseye, galloping joint pain, and was diagnosed as "clean". There are opinions that the bee venom masks certain chemicals that the tests are looking for, and can skew the conclusions drawn by a less that acute medical professional. 

Roland


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## Countryboy

_Which you credit to beekeeping? _

It has to be because of beekeeping. I started keeping bees 3 years ago, and that's when I started gaining weight, and when these bones started creaking louder because of that extra weight.

It's just coincidence that 3 years ago I got dentures and started eating better, and I also quit smoking 2 packs a day.


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## frazzledfozzle

LOL countryboy your post gave me a big smile and is one of the reasons I love Beesource


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## StevenG

Hal, if you have been using chemical treatments for mites etc. in your hives, is it possible those chemicals could somehow be involved in your health issues? Might want to consider that possibility.
Regards,
Steven


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## KeithC

I am so scared now... that im-a-going to get CCD for my bees
im going to sell them all



not rely lol


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## loggermike

CCD related:

If you are cleaning lots of deadouts-you should know that some of the mold in the hives is toxic to humans and can cause respiratory problems.

There is also the stress factor in seeing all those deadouts!


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## Hal Mack

All, 

Thank you all for your in put.

*Sqkcrk*- Symptoms include shortness of breath, fatigue, body and headaches, lack of concentration, tired, with excessive sleep, and actually sleep (NOT toss and turn in bed) for up to 16 hours a day. Some days are better then others. 

Just recently was admitted to the hospital for what was thought as a heart attack. EKG and other CAT scans showed heart working OK. I was kept in for 24hrs observation because a marker used for heart damage or lack of oxygen was off the charts. Some enzyme starting with Trop##### if I remember right. I don’t mean to scare anyone but have not been able to pinpoint the problem.

I may be getting old but I’m in **** good shape! 6’ 205 lbs healty in all respects till recently.

*Roland*- been tested for lime disease. Thank you for you suggestion.

*Steve* I use no chemicals at all. Thank you as well.

*Logger Mike* – Dead-out Mold can be an issue here that I will look into. I had lost 30 colonies this past year and had 23 +/- lost to CCD, 4 that froze and 3 that starved. The CCD hives had very few bees in them and not much mold. The other hives had plenty of bees and mold. Thank you and I will look into this further.

Please advise if any other beekeepers have issues with any of the above symptoms and or any other ideas. 

Thanks again,

Hal


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## ChristopherA

I wasnt aware there was a known cause for CCD only assumed causes. Could someone educate me where they actually say it is absolutly caused by a virus.

I have read virus, fungi, chemical and so on, but no one has nail the nail in the coffin saying is was for sure virus. Thinking about it, if it was any of the factors virus, bacti, fungi or chemically related, how do we know there is no other factor that is causing it. Giving a bee a weak immune system, kind of like how HIV end up with AIDS which someone dies from another factor such as pneumonia. 

Just want someone to enlighten me if there is something new out there that I missed?

Thank You


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## wildbranch2007

Hal Mack said:


> All,
> 
> 
> 
> *Roland*- been tested for lime disease. Thank you for you suggestion.


make sure that the lyme test was processed by quest diagnostics, a friend of mine was misdiagnosed for many years until he went to a specialist. one test confirmed that he had it, although the symtoms you have don't exactly match what he had. he couldn't get any sleep.


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## coopermaple

Hal MacK 
We have a neighbor that has somewhat similar symptoms except not sure about the extra sleep. He spent 2 weeks in hospital recently with nothing diagnosed. They sent him home. Heart and all related came back fine. Family thinks it could be Lyme disease but test came back neg. He is not beekeeper but is active outdoors fishing, golf, camping, yard work etc. He is 60+/-. Can't walk 200' to mail box.
Hope they figure yours out soon.


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## Roland

I may not have been clear in my previous post. Wildbranch is confirming my view, that there may be something wrong with the testing, or that bee venom creates a false negative? Now that I am not getting stung every day, I can feel my foot that got bitten by a tick acting up. It will go away in Spring(the acting up, not the foot).

Roland


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## Omie

The symptoms make me think of Lyme disease as well. You might want a second test done, by a different lab.


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## Countryboy

_Sqkcrk- Symptoms include shortness of breath, fatigue, body and headaches, lack of concentration, tired, with excessive sleep, and actually sleep (NOT toss and turn in bed) for up to 16 hours a day. Some days are better then others. _

IIRC, carbon monoxide poisoning can cause these symptoms. There is some disease that causes chronic fatigue too....my dad's cousin claims to have it but I can't recall what it is.

_I wasnt aware there was a known cause for CCD only assumed causes. Could someone educate me where they actually say it is absolutly caused by a virus.
_

A couple months back Jerry Bromenshank, et al published an indepth report that found a new virus, insect iridescent virus, in combination with nosema ceranae in CCD hives.


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## Stonefly7

Hal,

As one or two mentioned, carbon monoxide!! Have fire dept come and check out your home. Are you the only one in the house? This is the time of year! Water heater, furnace, fireplace,etc. 

Kind regards,


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## Bee Bliss

I also was thinking of Lyme or Chronic Fatigue or a toxin. Or, are you exposed to lead at all by air or food, food on dishes containing unknown lead, or ?? Could it be MS? You could have more than one issue right now and the mix of symptoms confuses diagnosis. Someone actually had both Lyme and MS at the same time. They were only treating for one only to find about the other issue later.

Hope they find out fast! In the meantime, take bee pollen, propolis and royal jelly. They are anti-fungal, anti-viral and anti-bacterial. If anyone has Lyme, it is recommended to do bee venom therapy in addition to what the doctor prescribes. Bee venom crosses the blood/brain barrier and also goes into joints to attack the Lyme spirochete. Some drugs don't do that very well. Lyme likes to "hide" in the brain and in joints. Bee venom is also anti-viral, anti-bacterial and anti-fungal. 

Just throwing some things out there to consider to help you with the medical attention you are getting from your doctor. Wish you well and let us know how you are doing.


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## Bee Bliss

Another thing...... do you drink a lot of diet beverages or eat/drink a lot of sugar substitutes in your food? 

Anyone else in the house that is having health issues also?


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## woodguyrob

Because many of you have mentioned lyme disease (I've had it my wife has and may still) I reccomend the documentary Under Your Skin. You'll learn more about Lyme than you really want too.


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## dthompson

>they actually say it is absolutly caused by a virus.
Me. My hives,experience, and location make a good "data point"

My bees too have ccd (for 5 years now)
My health has deteriorated too, not so drastically,
I attribute it more to ageing. 1 handed typing sucks
Since I have devised a half-assed treatment for the bees
my level of angst about that has reduced
I feel the responsability for my friends/servents/slaves
despite the extra work

>30 colonies this past year and had 23 +/- lost to CCD
What percent WL (winter loss)
>The CCD hives had very few bees
1/2 to 1 cup?
>or any other ideas
Well like many virus IIV(6) is sensitive to VC (vitamin C)
The treatment is labour intensive
VC sometimes work on human virus too,
could be a treatment for you too, if your problem is viral

Hal, in the spring, summer when observing your bees
note if they do "funny" movements of their rear legs
I am convinced that 'rear-leg symptoms' are key to
positive/negative diagnosis
Still awaiting any confirmation/denial on that, hope you can help

I've written many post about ccd, here and elsewhere, search archives
Best of luck

dave


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## LookerBee

CCD still somewhat of a mystery, but in suspected CCD colonies both Nosema Ceranae and a virus genome together have been found in these colonies.

Nosema Ceranae can be transmitted to humans, and although I am unsure of how it affects us, I do know we need to be very careful with cleanliness and hygiene when working our bees. Bees spread N.ceranae when packing bee bread into cells, then feeding contaminated bee bread (and parasite) to their young. If we ingest N. ceranae, (which in bees is an intestinal parasite) our bodies are the perfect temperature and moisture to sustain their life. 

Look on "scientific beekeeping.com" for the article called "The Nosema Twins, Part 1"...

I share your concern...


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## Hal Mack

Hi all,
*All* - The stress test for my heart has given me the comfort to say that this is not heart related. 

*All-* I have had a tick bite early spring and was tested 2 weeks after and was tested again 4 months later as a follow up. No Lyme disease I can have this tested again. 

*Stonefly-* My house is all electric. I do have a coal stoker stove that I have just fired up this past Friday. No monoxide issues to deal with. 

*Bliss-* No lead issues and I don’t like soda. I have cut back on my coffee intake and stopped drinking beer till I get this figured out. I have been diagnosed with Epstein Barr - chronic fatigue as a last resort. This is the catch all if the doctors can’t figure out what is really going on.

*LoggerMike* got me thinking about MOLD.

The reason I think the mold is on the right track is that when I picked up the 400+ boxes from grandpa’s estate. These where idle for 4-5 years with foundation drawn. 3 years ago I started cleaning these up and shortly after I had my first episode. I did not realize at the time that mold may be involved. Hence the chronic fatigue diagnoses. 

I have been good till this last episode and put together a timeline to include the first incident. You see this past August-September I pulled some more boxes out of storage and started cleaning these up. 

October I started to come down with a repeat of the chronic fatigue symptoms. I did not put the first and second together until I had included the Mold. 

Mold I think is the key to both episodes and fits the time line. Hopefully the docs can fix me now. I still have plenty of tests to go through and will give you all an update as this unfolds. I recommend that if you all clean up boxes wearing dust masks at a minimum.

Thanks all,

Hal


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## Barry

I have a close friend that was diagnosed with lyme disease a couple of months ago. Had some of your symptoms. Just got word today that they changed the diagnoses to ALS.


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## loggermike

A friend of mine with several thousand hives told me that some years back, the crew that was cleaning out moldy deadouts started coughing and feeling bad. They thought it was the mold so started wearing dust filter masks.
You will notice when cleaning deadouts, there are several colors/types of mold.As you scrape you can see the spores forming a small cloud .
This may not be your specific health issue, but it is wise to at least wear a dust mask. (I cant stand respirators)
Best of luck to you.


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## StevenG

Barry, I am sooooo sorry to hear about your friend with ALS. A colleague of mine was diagnosed with that 5 years ago, and he passed away earlier this month. There is nothing they can do for it. He was only 60.
Regards,
Steven


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## Hal Mack

All,

Good news! It looks like the mold issue is real. I told the doctors about the mold connection. She had me go in for a sputum test and a chest cat scan. Turns out I had a major infection in my nasal and chest/lungs caused by mold. After 3 weeks of cipro @ 500mg twice a day I Feel like new. I hope that the antibiotic did its job and killed the infection so it will not grow back. I would like to thank you all for your help and especially logger mike for bringing up the mold connection. I would have never put that together.
Mold is a real issue. One I would have never considered. Make sure you use proper protection while cleaning up boxes. 
Thanks again to all,

Hal Mack


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## StevenG

Hal, thanks for the update, and congratulations on the good news! Hope the treatments take/took care of it for you. 

This is a good heads-up for us to wear some type of respirator when we clean moldy hives in the future.
Regards,
Steven


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## chillardbee

if your suffering from CCD like symptoms, we'll never know what happened to you because you'll just disappear, much like the bees in the hive are just not there.


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