# Possible trap out higher than eye-level in tree - advise needed



## Litsinger (Jun 14, 2018)

pressure9pa said:


> If the tree falls and stays together, I think at that point it becomes a trap out situation. Assuming one main entrance, I'll try to draw them through the deep box and come back in a week or so. If there are multiple exits, I assume I try to block all but one?


Based on your description and your locale I might suggest on of two options:

1. Screen the existing entrance so the bees are unable to leave. Once enclosed, drop the tree, taking care to drop it as slowly as practical, and hopefully with the entrance available to you once dropped. Should everything stay according to plan thus far, you could plan on having a cordless drill available to sound for the cavity. Once you've determined the extents of the void, you can cut above and below it and take the sealed 'bee gum' home. Once home, you could treat it like a cut-out or cut the top and/or bottom of the gum off and set a modified hive body above/below the gum to transition them into your equipment over time.

2. If you have the option of time, utilize a Hogan Bee Trap (or similar) to get the bees out of the tree before you drop the stag. I've employed this approach and it works well, especially this time of year as the bees are looking to expand the brood nest.


----------



## pressure9pa (Feb 14, 2016)

Very helpful, thanks. I was planning on bringing a mesh bag, and I'll add a drill to the list as well. It would be a lot easier if the colony is small enough to fit into the bag so I can deal with everything at home.


----------



## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

it could be 6 feet tall in the tree. you may have a "log" to haul.

take a couple pieces of 16x16 1/2 inch plywood, if you cut it off and there is bees coming out, slap the cover on and 3 or 4 # 8 nails should hold it. try to cut the tree straight or the bees can still escape.

good luck

GG


----------



## G3farms (Jun 13, 2009)

I use an old bed sheet and duct tape to close up any entrances or ends of the log. Just wrap the sheet around the log or over the ends of the log and then wrap duct tape around it to secure it. 

Bring the log home and cut it out at your leisure. 

I will have to say of all of the bee trees I have brought home they are usually full of hive beetles in the debris at the bottom of the nest.


----------



## fieldsofnaturalhoney (Feb 29, 2012)

pressure9pa said:


> I have no reports this spring to know if they are alive.


Great advice given, but isn't there a way to find out if they survived Winter before loading up the truck?


----------



## BubbysBees (10 mo ago)

If its only 25 minutes away, make a scouting visit and take a portable drill to see how far up the hive goes. Then you will know what you need to complete the job.


----------



## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Don't waste your time on it.


----------



## mill-j (10 mo ago)

G3farms said:


> I will have to say of all of the bee trees I have brought home they are usually full of hive beetles in the debris at the bottom of the nest.


This is one reason to never use a vacumn on a removal like this, you get the bees transferred into a hive and they leave because of the beetles that got sucked up too. Even though they coexisted with a very high number of beetles in the tree. Interesting because if the beetle levels were that high in my hives, the bees would be gone or dead.




odfrank said:


> Don't waste your time on it.


^^^ Exactly! But if the tree needs to come down/cleaned up, maybe just set it up like a bee gum and set some swarm traps? And if you decide to take the plunge(every beek should be able to say "never doing that again!"), do it later in the afternoon, several hours before dark. This limits the time other colonies have to rob them as you make a hugr sticky mess.


----------



## G3farms (Jun 13, 2009)

One other possible..........set up a bait hive to catch a swarm that might come out of the tree, then cut the tree down.


----------



## Ranger N (Sep 23, 2020)

I just posted a new thread seeking the same advice. I have the opportunity to remove/trap an established hive from a dead/hollow tree that the owners want to take down. I will be going to take a look on saturday. the hive has been there for “several years” according to the owners. My plan is to take a swarm trap with me and set it up initially. The owners prefer to have someone remove the bees prior to having the tree removed. I am actually looking forward to attempting this. They are in no hurry so the swarm trap is a good start. additionally, depending on the circumference of the tree I wonder if my FLIR will let me see where the bees are in the cavity. Any thoughts?
Did not mean to impose on your thread Pressure9PA.

Thanks..


----------



## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

Ranger N said:


> I wonder if my FLIR will let me see where the bees are in the cavity. Any thoughts?


use the flir at night, no competing light from the sun will get you the best image.
still if the trunk is too think it will not show.

GG


----------



## pressure9pa (Feb 14, 2016)

Thanks everyone, and no offense taken at all Ranger, the more info the better when people search for these threads in the future. Mine is much the same way that the owners want the tree gone, and I've already promised that. They would have some patience if I needed to drop it, then trap out, then finally remove. I'm hoping to make a scouting trip this weekend.


----------



## Ranger N (Sep 23, 2020)

Gray Goose said:


> use the flir at night, no competing light from the sun will get you the best image.
> still if the trunk is too think it will not show.
> 
> GG


Great idea, GG. I will give that a go. I will know more this weekend.


----------



## Ranger N (Sep 23, 2020)

pressure9pa said:


> Thanks everyone, and no offense taken at all Ranger, the more info the better when people search for these threads in the future. Mine is much the same way that the owners want the tree gone, and I've already promised that. They would have some patience if I needed to drop it, then trap out, then finally remove. I'm hoping to make a scouting trip this weekend.


Thanks pressure9pa,
The owners I am working with are going to be patient and let me try a few things to rescue the bees so I have some time. As I stated earlier, I will get “eyes on” on Saturday, place a swarm trap and devise a plan. I am going to take a few pictures as well and try and post and maybe get some more ideas and suggestions. I hope to at least capture a swarm off them just to get the genetics as they are about 30 minutes from me as well.

Good luck with the removal and please keep us posted with results. Thanks.


----------



## Ranger N (Sep 23, 2020)

Hey folks,

So I went over to the place that has the bee tree and took a look. There has been a hive in the tree for at least the past 15 yrs. The entrance is about 25’ up. the tree is in pretty bad shape and they will eventually remove it. However, They are going to give me a shot at removing/trapping the colony somehow. With that being said, I placed a swarm trap for now and will stat putting together a plan to try and get them out of the tree. Initial thought is to get a boom lift and get up there with a modified deep where they will have to go through the deep box to come and go. I will place a frame of wet brood in the box as well as they pass through and maybe entice the queen to come out see what’s going on? Probably a long shot. I am still working on it. Anybody have any additional thoughts? Thanks


----------



## fieldsofnaturalhoney (Feb 29, 2012)

@ Ranger N Who’s paying for the lift multiple times? Why not just set up several more swarm traps at different heights/locations & supply the tree guys/gals some jackets, & have them try to cut the hive hole & lower it when the time comes?


----------



## Jack Grimshaw (Feb 10, 2001)

Looks like it could be a dead ash tree.If it is ,be aware.They cumble and fall apart!!


----------



## Ranger N (Sep 23, 2020)

fieldsofnaturalhoney said:


> @ Ranger N Who’s paying for the lift multiple times? Why not just set up several more swarm traps at different heights/locations & supply the tree guys/gals some jackets, & have them try to cut the hive hole & lower it when the time comes?


That thought crossed my mind. The folks that are going to remove the tree state that the tree is too far gone to attempt to take it down from the “top down” like most removals. So I am looking at different alternatives. My initial plan was to have the tree guys remove the top down to about a foot above the bee entrance then go down 6 feet and remove basically a 6 foot piece of log and lower to the ground but, apparently that is out. hence other options. If I get a swarm off the colony I would at least get genetics. Then once the tree is down capture as many bees as possible as I think that falling the tree will obviously destroy the hive internally.
Thanks for the suggestion. It is appreciated..


----------



## Ranger N (Sep 23, 2020)

Jack Grimshaw said:


> Looks like it could be a dead ash tree.If it is ,be aware.They cumble and fall apart!!


Thanks Jack, I thought it was an old cotton wood, but, I am no tree expert. And you are right it is in pretty bad shape.


----------



## gator75 (Apr 21, 2021)

What about pulling some comb with eggs larvae and vacuum as many bees as you can after the section is dropped? May not get the queen, but you'll get the genetics. Seems the easiest and most likely successful option. Then they can dispatch the leftover bees and move on.


----------



## G3farms (Jun 13, 2009)

I would leave that tree alone, bump it with a boom lift and it could come down on your head.

catch a swarm and forget the rest of it.


----------



## Ranger N (Sep 23, 2020)

gator75 said:


> What about pulling some comb with eggs larvae and vacuum as many bees as you can after the section is dropped? May not get the queen, but you'll get the genetics. Seems the easiest and most likely successful option. Then they can dispatch the leftover bees and move on.


Not a bad idea. I have some time, so, hoping to pull a swarm off it and then we can drop the tree and hope for the best? Thanks Gator75


----------



## Ranger N (Sep 23, 2020)

G3farms said:


> I would leave that tree alone, bump it with a boom lift and it could come down on your head.
> 
> catch a swarm and forget the rest of it.


That is kind of what I am leaning towards at this time. Hopefully, pull a swarm, drop the tree shortly there after and attempt to get as many left over bees to go into the swarm trap with the queen and swarm..Might work… Thanks G3


----------



## Litsinger (Jun 14, 2018)

Ranger N said:


> Initial thought is to get a boom lift and get up there with a modified deep where they will have to go through the deep box to come and go. I will place a frame of wet brood in the box as well as they pass through and maybe entice the queen to come out see what’s going on?


If you are able to get up to the opening safely and attach a trap out assembly, the above would probably work- especially if you use a one way bee escape on the existing opening such that after the queen slims down she can enter the trap-out box. Mr. Hogan details this approach in his write-up attached above.

Otherwise (and based on your replies since I started typing), you could just plan on having all your supplies on-hand when they drop the tree. After the proverbial dust settles, you could go to work salvaging what you can.

Best of success with this- please do let us know how it turns out.


----------



## Ranger N (Sep 23, 2020)

Litsinger said:


> If you are able to get up to the opening safely and attach a trap out assembly, the above would probably work- especially if you use a one way bee escape on the existing opening such that after the queen slims down she can enter the trap-out box. Mr. Hogan details this approach in his write-up attached above.
> 
> Otherwise (and based on your replies since I started typing), you could just plan on having all your supplies on-hand when they drop the tree. After the proverbial dust settles, you could go to work salvaging what you can.
> 
> Best of success with this- please do let us know how it turns out.


Litsinger, thanks for the input. I think bet course of action is to attempt catching a swarm and once it has been in the ball for a few days, fall the tree and attempt to block the opening with a modified deep and attempt to trap as many remaining bees and combine with original swarm? Hmmmmm, that might be worth a try…


----------



## Litsinger (Jun 14, 2018)

Ranger N said:


> ... block the opening with a modified deep and attempt to trap as many remaining bees and combine with original swarm?


Once down you could do a cut-out too...


----------



## Ranger N (Sep 23, 2020)

Litsinger said:


> Once down you could do a cut-out too...


We could possibly do a cutout, however, I am assuming that the impact of the tree falling is going to destroy the hive contents? good problem to have. I will let everyone know the final results with pics hopefully. It will be a few weeks though as we have decided to give the swarm box a few weeks to work.. Fingers crossed🤞🤞


----------



## G3farms (Jun 13, 2009)

Good Luck!


----------



## Jack Grimshaw (Feb 10, 2001)

Ranger N said:


> Thanks Jack, I thought it was an old cotton wood, but, I am no tree expert. And you are right it is in pretty bad shape.


Could be a cottonwood.(Retired arborist who refuses to diagnose from a picture)


----------



## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Ranger N said:


> Hey folks,
> 
> So I went over to the place that has the bee tree and took a look. There has been a hive in the tree for at least the past 15 yrs. The entrance is about 25’ up. the tree is in pretty bad shape and they will eventually remove it. However, They are going to give me a shot at removing/trapping the colony somehow. With that being said, I placed a swarm trap for now and will stat putting together a plan to try and get them out of the tree. Initial thought is to get a boom lift and get up there with a modified deep where they will have to go through the deep box to come and go. I will place a frame of wet brood in the box as well as they pass through and maybe entice the queen to come out see what’s going on? Probably a long shot. I am still working on it. Anybody have any additional thoughts? Thanks
> 
> ...


Yes! spending $500 to rent a boomlift to save $150 of bees works for me!


----------



## Jack Grimshaw (Feb 10, 2001)

odfrank said:


> Yes! spending $500 to rent a boomlift to save $150 of bees works for me!


I think $150 is an optimistic value.


----------



## pressure9pa (Feb 14, 2016)

Finally coming back to this. A couple of weeks ago it was determined that there was not an active colony in this tree, which took the priority level down quote a bit. I dropped the tree today. The main entrance was a hole about 2" in diameter and had comb visible. Even though there was not another hole below this one, there was comb running down from that point another two feet, and running upward another 6 feet. No honey, pollen, or visible resources other than the comb itself. After cleaning up the tree, I salvaged about 4-5 frames worth of comb to throw in the freezer. It did look like there was some torn up wax capping, but this looks a lot like chainsaw residue at a glance so I'm not sure of the real quantity. 

So no real exciting conclusion, other than I have a little more comb for some swarm traps.


----------



## G3farms (Jun 13, 2009)

Sounds like a hive that did not make it over the winter and they were being robbed out this spring.


----------



## pressure9pa (Feb 14, 2016)

G3farms said:


> Sounds like a hive that did not make it over the winter and they were being robbed out this spring.


That was my guess, but I didn't see a lot of dead bees either. Although it's possible they moved up higher than I was cutting and I just didn't find them.


----------



## G3farms (Jun 13, 2009)

mite bomb, there will not be any bees.


----------



## BEE J (10 mo ago)

BubbysBees said:


> If its only 25 minutes away, make a scouting visit and take a portable drill to see how far up the hive goes. Then you will know what you need to complete the job.


That would probably be wise.


----------



## gator75 (Apr 21, 2021)

I assume if a bee tree throws a swarm and the virgin doesn't return that colony is doomed. That seems as likely as a mite explosion. I would have lost 2 hives to that issue in the last year if I didn't have an extra queen or frame of eggs.


----------



## Ranger N (Sep 23, 2020)

pressure9pa said:


> Finally coming back to this. A couple of weeks ago it was determined that there was not an active colony in this tree, which took the priority level down quote a bit. I dropped the tree today. The main entrance was a hole about 2" in diameter and had comb visible. Even though there was not another hole below this one, there was comb running down from that point another two feet, and running upward another 6 feet. No honey, pollen, or visible resources other than the comb itself. After cleaning up the tree, I salvaged about 4-5 frames worth of comb to throw in the freezer. It did look like there was some torn up wax capping, but this looks a lot like chainsaw residue at a glance so I'm not sure of the real quantity.
> 
> So no real exciting conclusion, other than I have a little more comb for some swarm traps.


pressure9pa, 
Sorry to hear about that. I still have a swarm trap near the bee tree I am watching. It still has bees coming and going and appears to still be populated. My swarm box has had a few scouts checking it out but, nothing to get excited about yet. the owners are still ok with trying the swarm thing for a little while longer before the tree comes down. Fingers crossed we get a swarm or, we get some open brood and bees when it comes down. I’ll keep you all updated when it finally happens.


----------



## Ranger N (Sep 23, 2020)

UPDATE!!!!!
Hey folks,
After placing a swarm trap approximately 100yds from the feral bee tree the 3rd week of March, the owner contacted me on 6/13/22 and stated there was a bunch of bees on the front of the swarm trap and appeared to be coming from the direction of the Feral bee tree. I went over yesterday 6/14/22 and sure enough there were a ton of bees coming and going from the trap. I will give them a couple of days and close them up and bring them to one of the bee yards and let ‘em rip…. My plan is to observe for a couple of brood cycles and then force them to make queen cells and hopefully get a few queens from them and requeen a few hives and see how it goes. Keeping my fingers crossed.


----------

