# Creamed Honey



## Homemaid (Sep 4, 2013)

I want to make creamed honey for Christmas gifts. I cannot find Stoller Creamed honey to use as a starter. Does anyone know where you can get this? I'm in Michigan.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

I don't k now the brand. I have pretty good creamed honey. PM me about me mailing you some for starter. If you pay postage that would be good but that's all I would need. We can put it in a zip lock and a padded envelope and shipping is cheap that way for enough for a start.


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## marshmasterpat (Jun 26, 2013)

Please tell me what creamed honey is? Maybe I would then understand why you have to have a starter culture.


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## Spinner (Jun 2, 2013)

Creamed honey, also known as spun honey or whipped honey, is finely crystallized honey. It has a smooth, buttery-like consistency. If crystallized without starter, it would be far too coarse and unpalatable. The starter has the smaller crystals, and acts to give the rest of the honey a smaller pattern for its crystals.


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## Colino (May 28, 2013)

This begs the question where did the starter for the starter come from with the smaller crystals?:scratch:


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

The honey crystals could have been ground to the right grain size. I have heard it advised to grind crystalized honey in a grain grinder to use to start creamed honey. I believe Michael Bush has something on this in his online book.

Isn't whipped honey actually whipped? And spun honey? I don't know how you would spin or what you would spin to make spun honey, even though I have seen the product on the shelf.

Stollers Cream Honey was the best product I have ever seen and eaten. Have you done a websearch for them. The last I recall hearing about Dwight Stoller, he was on the National Honey Board. I'd suggest a websearch for Stoller Honey Co, Latty, OH.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

According to this website:
http://www.indeed.com/cmp/Golden-Heritage-Foods

Stoller's honey was sold in 2002 to Golden Heritage Foods.
http://www.ghfllc.com/

There isn't any indication on the Golden Heritage website that they sell _creamed _honey, or any Stoller's branded product.


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## tomkat (Apr 27, 2014)

*I'm bringing this back up,I could not find Micheal Bush instructions on making creamed or whipped honey. I want to know this, I have lots of crystallized honey. Now I put some in the blender and cut the Crystals down a lot. Why can't I use this for starter???'''*


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## TWall (May 19, 2010)

I'm not sure a blender will break the crystals down to a smaller size. The blender will add air to the honey. To use the honey you already have you will need to grind it. I seem to recall that Michael Bush has mentioned using a flour grinder. You could also use a mortar and pestle. You need to get crystals that are so small you cannot feel them on your tongue. You need a uniform size of crystals. Small crystal encourage small crystals, large crystals encourage large crystals. That is why the Dyce method has you heat your honey to remove all crystals. You them seed with honey with the desired crystal size, usually creamed honey.

Do a search on the Dyce method. Others, such as Michael Bush, may have made modifications.

Tom


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## johng (Nov 24, 2009)

I bought some starter from Brushy Mountain and was very happy with the results.


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## Irmo (Jan 9, 2012)

The supermarket here sells Sue Bee creamed honey in 1 lb tubs. I thought Sue Bee was a national brand, maybe your supermarket has it too. I saw it in the Harris Teeter chain here.


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## jjohnsind (Apr 24, 2014)

The best creamed honey I've had was the white stuff from Hawaii. Expensive, but its one of the factors that got me interested in beekeeping.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I haven't tried it but I seriously doubt a blender will do anything to break up the crystals. We are talking about taking something that is almost microscopic and grinding it to where it IS microscopic... 

I recommend a flour grinder, and it's not a good way to get a lot of creamed honey, but it's a good way to get some starter. It's just too messy and time consuming to grind all of your honey. At least with the small hand grinder I have, it is. Mostly I just harvest late, and when I do it's often starting to crystallize. I set the jars on the window sill where they get the cold window on one side and the room on the other and it crystallized quickly and smoothly. In theory you want 56 F. I imagine I get close to that. If I have some liquid honey that isn't crystallizing already, I add starter. I never heat it because I don't want to spoil the flavor. If it's very gritty because it crystallized slowly (usually in the bucket) I might try to get it liquid and add some starter and then keep it 56 F...


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## tomkat (Apr 27, 2014)

_THanks everyone.._] I went ahead and used the blender as suggested on another forum. The blender did break down the Crystals I had four other people taste test it. I will invest in a flour grinder, the one thing I don't understand is why any one would buy a starter, not knowing what really is in it or where it came from. Sorry if this offends anyone.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

I take it you don't shop for groceries?


tomkat said:


> _THanks everyone.._] I went ahead and used the blender as suggested on another forum. The blender did break down the Crystals I had four other people taste test it. I will invest in a flour grinder, the one thing I don't understand is why any one would buy a starter, not knowing what really is in it or where it came from. Sorry if this offends anyone.


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## Ennui (Jun 6, 2013)

Honey is a super-saturated solution which will crystallize on particulate matter. That's why grocery store honey is super filtered to prevent particles as crystallization points. Like all such solution temperature is a factor. There is an ideal temperature for crystallization to occur and the further you move away from those temperatures the slower the crystallization occurs. The size of the crystals are determined by a couple factors, mainly the starter particles and speed at which crystallization occurs. Faster crystallization == larger crystals. The classic example would be rock candy, which is just sugar water with food coloring that was given a stick or a string to crystalize on. A great and edible science project for kids.

I've "made" my first creamed honey straight out of my hive. It was by accident pull the fall goldenrod honey out of my hive the next spring and crushed/strained it. It set up as creamed honey within a day or 2 of when I remove it (which happens consistently every spring now). The incredibly small crystals had already formed while it was in the hive and so when I stick in the much cooler temperature of my panty it sets up quickly.

If you want to create your own starter, you just need small compatible crystals. You could take a half teaspoon of sugar and grind it up to a powder and use that or probably a light sprinkle of powered sugar. Do it in a 1 pound jar/container and when you'll have starter. Assuming you then take the starter and mix it with any significant quantity of honey, the pinch of sugar you added will get diluted to non-consequence. Then your new starter can come from the batch you just made and so forth and so on.

This way is not the easiest or the fastest, but I'm cheap and lazy and my honey is just for friends and family.


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## bevy's honeybees (Apr 21, 2011)

Would something like this work? I'd like to start making my own also, including making my own starter.

http://www.amazon.com/Premium-Quali...&qid=1403616807&sr=8-2&keywords=flour+grinder


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I can't say for sure how it would work. It needs to be able to grind "fine flour". I can't find a reference directly to that in the specifications, but it might be able to do it. You need a grinder that won't just make meal, but fine bread flour.

These are expensive but specifies that it does fine flour:
http://www.amazon.com/Wonder-Junior...403617788&sr=8-10&keywords=fine+flour+grinder
http://www.amazon.com/Victorio-VKP1...1403618005&sr=1-5&keywords=fine+flour+grinder

Perhaps you can find a cheaper one. It's been more than a decade since I bought mine and I don't remember the price anymore, but it seems like it wasn't cheap...


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## tomkat (Apr 27, 2014)

Ok so if I get it ground down finer can this be used as starter???


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## Bee Bliss (Jun 9, 2010)

In March, we took 8 frames of foundationless honey and did crush and strain. We took half of the honey and added a starter, jarred it and put it in the fridge. We did not heat the honey up before seeding. After a few weeks, we put that honey in the cool basement when we found out refrigeration was not advised. Both the seeded honey and crush and strained only honey was put in the basement. Imagine our surprise to find out that both honeys ended up being the smooth, creamed honey we wanted.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Ok so if I get it ground down finer can this be used as starter??? 

Yes.


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## Kiran (Jan 27, 2014)

I am new in this but what I heard is to place 10% of honey in the refrigerator until it crystallizes and then grind well and stir it into the rest of the honey.
Creamed honey is *not* whipped.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Here's how we did it commercially, this will explain the principles behind it so you can do your own.

We had a creaming room, which was a room held at 57 degrees & had several 2 ton honey tanks in it. Each tank had a stirrer, which was 3 blades that turned very slowly, maybe once around the tank a minute. They were set up so they completely agitated and slowly stirred all honey in the tank.

Method - The fully creamed honey was run out of the tank but 10% was left in the bottom. The tank was refilled with liquid honey and the stirrers were running. In 3 days, all the honey would be fully creamed, the stirrers had ensured the honey had not set, it would still flow & could be packed, it would be drained off leaving the bottom 10% for the next run. To make what was called "hard creamed" honey, the tank would be drained and honey packed after one day of stirring. After one day the tiny crystals had not fully replicated themselves and the process would continue in the jar. Because there was no stirring in the jar the crystals would set into each other and the honey would be hard.

In all cases the crystals were so tiny as to be undetectable by taste, the honey just tasted firm and creamy.

Where did the first creamed honey come from? It's all about temperature. If you get a jar of liquid honey and hold it at 57 degrees for however long it takes to granulate, the grains when it eventually happens will be fine, undetectably small grains. This could then be used as starter for other honey. All the starter does is give the granulating process a kick start, but the quality of getting fine grains is about the temperature.

So the reason peoples honey granulates into coarse, unpleasant tasting granules, is because most people store their honey at temperatures higher than 57.


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