# Bee venom for sublingual administration



## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Wow, I can't even imagine the reaction one would get by placing bee venom in one's mouth. A localized sub-cutaneous injection is probably a better way to go, but I get those every time I work the bees.


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## Boondocks (Sep 16, 2020)

It would be a lot cheaper to kill one bee rather than buy a medical device. Worker bees have short lifespans of about 6 weeks. There is probably 20-30,000 of them in a hive in the summer. .
If you try this please post a video of it on YouTube. I want to see your reaction upon getting venom injected under your tongue. In most people swelling is a common reaction so have someone around in case you have difficulty breathing, preferably someone who knows CPR.
When I first got bees, my dogs thought they were like carpenter bees and they could catch them and chew them up. After each dog had caught one honeybee in their mouth, they never went close to the hives again.


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## Gino45 (Apr 6, 2012)

I agree with the short lifespan of bees. Part of the regular evaluation of our bees' health is collecting and killing a few hundred of them to determine how many mites are present in a hive. So, killing a few to do a bee venom treatment seems a very minor thing.
I recommend you get a pair of flat tweezers and catch individual bees with the tweezers and apply them where the problem exists, be it knees, elbows, shouders, etc. The problem with this is it is about impossible to apply them to one's spine and shoulders without another person who is actually placing the bee for 'injection'. And the spine is where the treatment often needs to go, leaving us solo apitherapists with a dilemma. We often need a cooperative helper to do our self treatments.
Thinking about it, how could one get the venom and keep the worker bee alive? I can't imagine that.


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## Struttinbuck (Mar 8, 2020)

Michael Palmer has some videos on people being allergic to bee venom. He says that family members of bee keepers are 10 times or higher more likely to be allergic than non beek families. He says the protein only entering a human body by ingesting bee proteins makes their immune system over react when they get bee protein through a sting. 
With the venom collector, the venom will dry to a powder and would think you could precisely measure it to less than micrograms.
I have noticed that if I eat raw honey on a regular basis, i don't swell as bad. My worst reaction so far was a sting on the wrist and my arm swelling to my shoulder. But since eating honey regularly I dont react hardly at all. That leads me to believe Michael Palmer is onto something.
Maybe if someone would ingest bee venom on a micro gram level you would see? 
And how much are those venom collectors running for now anyway?


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Struttinbuck said:


> Michael Palmer has some videos on people being allergic to bee venom. He says that family members of bee keepers are 10 times or higher more likely to be allergic than non beek families.


Well, Michael Palmer did not publish his theory (I did not google, but pretty sure so).
It is his hunch but no more.
So keep that in mind.


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## just_somebody (Apr 10, 2021)

You can google bee venom collector to see how it works. Bee


JWPalmer said:


> Wow, I can't even imagine the reaction one would get by placing bee venom in one's mouth. A localized sub-cutaneous injection is probably a better way to go, but I get those every time I work the bees.


It seems the reaction is not very severe, they already studied this way of administration of bee venom for hymenoptera allergy DEFINE_ME


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## just_somebody (Apr 10, 2021)

Gino45 said:


> I agree with the short lifespan of bees. Part of the regular evaluation of our bees' health is collecting and killing a few hundred of them to determine how many mites are present in a hive. So, killing a few to do a bee venom treatment seems a very minor thing.
> I recommend you get a pair of flat tweezers and catch individual bees with the tweezers and apply them where the problem exists, be it knees, elbows, shouders, etc. The problem with this is it is about impossible to apply them to one's spine and shoulders without another person who is actually placing the bee for 'injection'. And the spine is where the treatment often needs to go, leaving us solo apitherapists with a dilemma. We often need a cooperative helper to do our self treatments.
> Thinking about it, how could one get the venom and keep the worker bee alive? I can't imagine that.


This is probably true. But I read this: "When a female honey bee stings a person, it cannot pull the barbed stinger back out, but rather leaves behind not only the stinger, but also part of its abdomen and digestive tract, plus muscles and nerves. This massive abdominal rupture kills the honey bee". I still feel little bad for thousands of bees that may die in this way, I can guess this must be very painful death. Still I hope insects don't fell pain like we do.


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## Struttinbuck (Mar 8, 2020)

GregV said:


> Well, Michael Palmer did not publish his theory (I did not google, but pretty sure so).
> It is his hunch but no more.
> So keep that in mind.


Agree. It's on youtube. And it could be a coincidence on my part with me ingesting honey seems to help with how I react to bee stings.


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## Struttinbuck (Mar 8, 2020)

just_somebody said:


> You can google bee venom collector to see how it works. Bee
> 
> 
> It seems the reaction is not very severe, they already studied this way of administration of bee venom for hymenoptera allergy DEFINE_ME


My thing is that since the venom turns into a powder like substance, If I start getting any kind of allergic reaction to the bees, I will do the same kind of therapy as snake venom collectors and get very minute injections to make your immune system use to it again. Maybe use the old sugar level pin prick things with just a tiny micro dose of bee venom on it.


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## just_somebody (Apr 10, 2021)

So after doing some more research this is what I know so far:
-Sublingual way of administration may be successful, it has been already researched for other conditions (not lyme). Source: DEFINE_ME
-The main component responsible for positive effects is melittin which seems to be quite stable peptide. Source: [Research on stability of melittin in different solvent systems] - PubMed, Standardization of the Manufacturing Process of Bee Venom Pharmacopuncture Containing Melittin as the Active Ingredient

So maybe this could be done in this way.


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## Struttinbuck (Mar 8, 2020)

just_somebody said:


> So after doing some more research this is what I know so far:
> -Sublingual way of administration may be successful, it has been already researched for other conditions (not lyme). Source: DEFINE_ME
> -The main component responsible for positive effects is melittin which seems to be quite stable peptide. Source: [Research on stability of melittin in different solvent systems] - PubMed, Standardization of the Manufacturing Process of Bee Venom Pharmacopuncture Containing Melittin as the Active Ingredient
> 
> So maybe this could be done in this way.


Can you sell it? I looked into it for a while and there wasnt much of a market at the time.


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## Struttinbuck (Mar 8, 2020)

The venom collectors I seen operated kinda like an electronic air cleaner or bug zapper but much less potent., . They have a screen with the positive and negative charge, the bees step on the screen then the venom just secretes onto a glass slide. You scrape the glass and theres your venom. Also like the electronic probes for bulls, ejact zappers??? something?
I mean hey, breeding cattle is big money right? lol


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