# Modified Top Bar Lang. hive



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I was curious as to why you need to put some sort of "starter strip" on the frame if there is a groove already there on the top bar of the frame?

You need something that protrudes, not a groove.

> Why would the bees not use the groove as the line to start drawing comb from?

Because it doesn't stick out.

> Has anyone ever tried it without putting in a starter strip of some sort

Of course. Sometimes you'll get lucky. Sometimes you won't. Odds will improve if the spacing is correct (1 1/4" for brood and 1 1/2" for honey) and even more if there is a straight comb to start with, but the risk of getting a lot of crooked comb that is not in the frames is too high for this as a serious beekeeping technique.


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## Aram (May 9, 2006)

I've seen pictures of people pushing popsicle sticks in the groove as a guide. Looked simple enough.


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## Judy in IN (Jul 12, 2007)

*How about a compund cut?*

I'm putting together my first Top Bar this spring. I cheated (bought one off Ebay) But, I want to make the bars triangular rather than having to cut and glue/nail a triangular piece onto the top bar. 

Can't I make a jig and clamp it to my table saw for this? 

I'm not the best woodworker, so let me know why this won't work?


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

Yes, you should be able to make up some sort of jig without too much trouble. As a matter of fact, just yesterday I saw someone else who did the same thing while I was searching the internet for TBH designs for myself. If I remember correctly, the person was even selling the top bars that they manufactured on ebay, they would make them whatever length that you wanted. I think they wanted a couple bucks apiece, so you may want to still make them yourself. I think making them with the triangular bar is a great idea for strength, you wouldn't have to worry about a starter strip or nailed or glued on strip pulling loose. Hope this helps.


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## Tim Hall (Sep 14, 2007)

Judy in IN said:


> I'm putting together my first Top Bar this spring. I cheated (bought one off Ebay) But, I want to make the bars triangular rather than having to cut and glue/nail a triangular piece onto the top bar.
> 
> Can't I make a jig and clamp it to my table saw for this?
> 
> I'm not the best woodworker, so let me know why this won't work?


I've seen this done before, and it may work well, but a couple things to remember: You'll need flat ends to rest the bars on the hive body, which means an additional cut(s) on each end of the top bars. And consider the height/depth ratio of your top bars - if your bars are 1-1/2" wide and 3/4" deep, that doesn't give you a very steep angle to make a clear protruding edge to guide the bees, so you may have to use thicker material. I've made all fashion of top bars, simple and complex, and from now on I'm going with simple rectangular bars (least amount of waste) with a groove cut for popsicle sticks. This requires some hand assembly beyond just cutting, but once you get into a groove with the wood glue it goes pretty fast. No need for nails.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

You can do it anyway you like. I find it's easy to just cut the corner off of a one by and get a 3/4" by 3/4" by 1" triangle and then cut it to length and glue and nail it on.


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## Stevedore (Jan 22, 2009)

What Michael is talking about here is called a "chamfer strip". You can find them at Lowe's if you don't feel like cutting them yourself.

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=85853-1487-995&lpage=none


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## Aram (May 9, 2006)

Your table saw should have a lever to tilt the blade to 45º. I make all of mine that way. Yes you do need to make additional cuts at the ends so the bar rests flat on the hive. It's really easy once you get the hang of it but if you don't have a lot of experience with the table saw see if you can find someone who can help you first. I'll see if I can take and post some pictures of the process later.
Good luck,
Aram


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## Judy in IN (Jul 12, 2007)

Aram, I'm familiar with cutting on an angle. What I'm wanting to do is attach a strip of wood to the saw, so that I get the rectangle before getting the triangle. 

Stevedore, 
I checked with the Lowe's in IN online, and they don't carry chamfer strips. The closest I could come was quarter round. At $3 a strip and having to cut one side anyway, I'll take it off a 1x4. I just got 100 of these anyway. 

I got my ebay TBH today. The top bars have the saw kerf, so I'll probably flip them over and nail/glue the chamfer strips to them.


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## justgojumpit (Apr 9, 2004)

jmgi said:


> As a matter of fact, just yesterday I saw someone else who did the same thing while I was searching the internet for TBH designs for myself. If I remember correctly, the person was even selling the top bars that they manufactured on ebay, they would make them whatever length that you wanted. I think they wanted a couple bucks apiece, so you may want to still make them yourself.



Hey, this sounds like me! Yes, the top bars are made with 45 degree angles, with cuts at the end so they sit flat. This is probably the most intensive part of making a top bar hive, because of all the different cuts that need to be made. I ask $2.00 for the bars, not because of the materials costs, but because of the time that goes into them. If you have the time, your own table saw, and feel confident in using it, I would say go for it! If you need some help, let me know. Here is a link so you can see how I make them, if you would like to do something similar:

http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2371812700056607729QlXFEr

These are no longer on ebay because of listing fees, but you can always send me a PM if you need some made.

justgojumpit


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## Aram (May 9, 2006)

Justgo., must be a fashion in NY, that's how I make mine too. 
Judy, you mean a fence? Most saws come with one. You absolutely need a fence both to cut the bars square and to cut the angles. You'll also need a "finger saver" push stick. When you cut at an angle the wood stock is under pressure between the blade-table-fence.


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## Stevedore (Jan 22, 2009)

Chamfer strips may also be available at your local mason's supply as they are used in the corners of concrete molds. Cabinet makers also use them sometimes for molding where the cabinet meets the ceiling.


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## Judy in IN (Jul 12, 2007)

Well, I intend to use a fence, but I was thinking of a strip of wood between the piece to be cut, and the sawblade itself. I will definately use a push stick. I DO like my fingers attached. 

That blood makes it so slippery when working the saw.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

justgo and Aram,

I'm just curious. Have you ever had a NY State Apiary Inspector inspect your TBH(s)? Are you registered w/ NYS Ag&Mkts?


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## Aram (May 9, 2006)

LOL Judy. Here's how I do it. It's a bit wordy so I took a bunch of pictures. This is the second recent thread where this question came up. How to cut the guides right onto the Top Bar?
Top Bar Pictorial


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

I am having trouble getting all of the pictorial to print. Any suggestions?


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## Aram (May 9, 2006)

odfrank, try Explorer. I can also email you the page contents, you should be able to print them from your email.
What browser are you using? I just tried Firefox, Safari, and Explorer(for Mac). Firefox would only print the first page. Safari printed fine but that's just for macs, I think. Explorer misaligned a bit the photos and text but it printed fine for me. (My explorer is the mac version also.) I'll check with my computer Guru friends, there must be a way to save the pages. May be as a pdf. document?


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## Bizzybee (Jan 29, 2006)

You may need to check your printer preferences? pdf conversion is also a print function and you may experience the same kind of problems? Check your page orientation, landscape vs portrait in your printer configuration?

Cute PDF is the simplest IMO for pdf conversion. It's free also. It sets up on your system as a printer, so you will still print the page as usual except you will choose cute pdf as the printer. It will then prompt you for the location where you want to save the file.

Good Luck!


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

*success*

I was able to print it from Explorer, thanks.


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