# Tylan for treatment of AFB



## Holly (Mar 15, 2010)

Does any one know how to mix Tylan with sugar water?


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## brac (Sep 30, 2009)

It is not mixed with sugar water.

Mix 200mg tylosin with 20g of powdered suger, immediately apply this as a dust over the top bars of the brood chamber. This is done once weekly for 3 weeks.

Follow the directions!!!!

Just keep in mind it does not cure the bees, it only hides the symptoms, if you stop treating the AFB will come back.


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## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

Simple directions- 1 1/2 tblsp of tylan with 2 lbs powder sugar

Tylan does clean up AFB very well. It does more than just mask it. If you have to keep supers on them when treating make sure that honey doesn't go for human consumption.


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

Best treatment for afb is burn the frames, scortch the wooden ware.
Tylan or Oxy will only prevent outbreaks of it...if used properly. Read the directions, and check for withdrawal times (# of days before you can add honey supers, after the last treatment)


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## B Reeves (Oct 2, 2009)

you need to requeen, the bees genetics determine thier resistance to AFB, if it is the queen that brings that trait they will allways have a problem, if it was the drone she is using now then when she runs out of his genes it will go away, unless they both bring it with them, treat then requeen, or if you have enough hives look to see if you have any brood that is unaffected in the hive pinch off the queen and have them raise another, how long have they had it ? how big is the hive?


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

Her's a web page that's easy to read:
http://www.drugs.com/vet/tylan-soluble.html
Ernie


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

B Reeves said:


> you need to requeen, the bees genetics determine thier resistance to AFB, if it is the queen that brings that trait they will allways have a problem, if it was the drone she is using now then when she runs out of his genes it will go away, unless they both bring it with them, treat then requeen, or if you have enough hives look to see if you have any brood that is unaffected in the hive pinch off the queen and have them raise another, how long have they had it ? how big is the hive?


Slightly t: , but needs to be said.
I was going to give a smart ***** answer here, and thought the better of it. So it took me a while to figure what i wanted to say so i could refute your post.

If ABF genetics could determine resistance to a spore or a fungus or a bacteria, we as a human race would be so far ahead of the game in disease contol it would not be funny.

That said, here is how to resist AFB

--Strong healthy colonys that have hygenic "traits", bees that clean their bottom boards, bees that clean their cells, bees that like a clean hive.

--mite control--- again a strong colony can fight off disease pressure, a weak colony sucumbs to it...keep the mites in check and AFB should not become a secondary infection

--nutrition--when a colony is in a dearth or if weather has been eratic, or if the weather has just been pain nasty, a colony will suffer the effects of poor nutrition....again weakening the colony, and not being able to fight disease pressure. Just because they are bringing in pollen does not mean they are bringing in good quality pollen...weather plays a serious role in plant stress. Too much rain, not enough rain, cool days, too hot of days will decrease the protien in the pollen and will decrease the amount of nectar in a plant. 

--finally, rotating out brood comb is one of the most important ways of controling AFB and many other viruses and diseases. Healthy clean comb = healthy bees!

I personally think we place to much emphasis on genetics to heal our problems, giving us an easy way out. We end up forgetting the simple technics that are at our disposal to make use of.


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## Countryboy (Feb 15, 2009)

_If ABF genetics could determine resistance to a spore or a fungus or a bacteria, we as a human race would be so far ahead of the game in disease contol it would not be funny._

What about the bees at the Dadant wax rendering facility? They had a beeyard there that was constantly exposed to AFB in the wax coming to the plant. Those bees became resistant to AFB.

As soon as the bees no longer had pressure from AFB, they lost their resistance to AFB. We keep trying to find ways of completely eliminating AFB pressures, and then wonder why the bees never develop any resistance to it.


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

I am no expert here, but i believe there were some other things we might have missed when comparing this hive .

First off, it probably was not genetics that warded off the AFB. I mean, in the end of your post they lost the resistance. I challenge that if they lost it, maybe they never had it. If you have a resistance, that resistance is only good as long as the threshold is not breached. Once it is breached, it is only a matter of time.
The threshold is what a hive or animal can handle without becoming sick. But the threshold drops once other stressors are introduced. Other stressors in hive relation could be a dearth, poor weather...to hot to cold, to wet, to dry. Included in these stressors can be mites that might be getting out of control, rising nosema numbers, lack of queen cohesion in a hive. Bees that are weak and tired....any number of things. Things we have no history on. 

Did they have pressure of AFB from the wax, yes, more than likely. How did they keep the disease under control, probably because the bees stepped up the cleaning, the task of getting it under control.

Some questions here that should be answered when studying these bees are:

1. did the honey production go down? did it go down because the bees committed resources elsewhere? Did the bee numbers start to decline as the pressure became to great? Were the bees weakened and it was coincedence that the hives lost control when they were no longer under pressure?

2. How was the mite pressure? No mite pressure, no virus pressure, they were more able to ward off the afb

3. did they regularly treat the hive for AFB knowing the pressure was there? Did they do it faithfully in the spring and fall...three times every seven days?

4. What other stressors caused the bees to loose control of the AFB? Were there then other pressures reducing the threshold of afb control? Did mites enter the picture? How about nosema starting to gain a foot hold? What about nurtrition?

There are so many variables. Without these questions answered, why the bees succummed to AFB later on when the pressure was off I have no answer. More information would be needed. A hive history that was recorded, including weather, dearths, treatments, testing, mite #'s, and any other factors to come to a more realistic answer.


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## Holly (Mar 15, 2010)

B Reeves said:


> you need to requeen, the bees genetics determine thier resistance to AFB, if it is the queen that brings that trait they will allways have a problem, if it was the drone she is using now then when she runs out of his genes it will go away, unless they both bring it with them, treat then requeen, or if you have enough hives look to see if you have any brood that is unaffected in the hive pinch off the queen and have them raise another, how long have they had it ? how big is the hive?


I don't know if AFB can come with a package of bees or not. This hive is a package that i installed the end of april. I used 5 frames from my hive that didn't make it through the winter. whats strange is i used the same equipment for another package i installed and they are doing fine.


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## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

Are you positive it is AFB? It is possible that the infected package got combs with scale they they show symtoms already and the healthy package got combs without scale or they just haven't show the classic symtoms yet.


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## Holly (Mar 15, 2010)

I am not 100% positive I havn't had it tested but the nurse bees are bringing out what looks to be a scale that is dark in color. They are also bringing out pupa. I orginally thought it was possibly chilled brood but it has been going on now for over 10 days. I also thought it might have been a lack of pollen so I gave them a patty.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

Here are some very good photos of AFB:

http://search.aol.com/aol/image?q=American foulbrood&flv=1
Ernie


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## Countryboy (Feb 15, 2009)

I don't know all the details of the apiary at Dadant's wax rendering facility. If I remember correctly, it was 1908 before Dadant ever saw foulbrood in any of his hives. It was a fairly obscure disease in the late 1800's. Odds are, they were not treating because they probably didn't know any good treatments for it at the time.

_I am not 100% positive I havn't had it tested but the nurse bees are bringing out what looks to be a scale that is dark in color. They are also bringing out pupa. _

I'm not sure what you are calling a scale. AFB scales are difficult for bees to remove from frames. With AFB, the larva 'melts' and what remains after it dries up is the scale which sticks to the bottom side of the cell.

Did what you are seeing look like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEb7l-3R6Ng
You may see black or white dried up larvae being thrown out if you have chalkbrood.


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## dcross (Jan 20, 2003)

I've had brood that roped just like AFB, but wasn't. Send a sample to Beltsville and be certain.


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## Holly (Mar 15, 2010)

thanks everybody for your comments!


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Holly said:


> Does any one know how to mix Tylan with sugar water?


Three teaspoons per 2 lb bag of powdered sugar.


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## Holly (Mar 15, 2010)

Countryboy said:


> Did what you are seeing look like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEb7l-3R6Ng
> You may see black or white dried up larvae being thrown out if you have chalkbrood.


no it didn't look like that. I took pictures but I don't know how to post them


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## Holly (Mar 15, 2010)

I am doubtful that this hive will make it. here is some pictures of what I found when I checked on them after work. 

http://yfrog.com/13dsc07219cj

http://yfrog.com/50dsc07220qj


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## megank (Mar 28, 2006)

I see what appears to be chilled brood and debris from old comb...dried moldy pollen and what not


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## isensiman (May 18, 2010)

If the treatment of AFB does not result in the erradication of the desease then why bother.I am of the opinion that once detected the colony including the hive should be burnt. Maintaining strong colonies is very important and selecting eggs for queen rearing form queens whose offspring displays good hive cleaning skills.


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## brac (Sep 30, 2009)

Our Jamaciam beekeeper is wise. I agree.


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## dcross (Jan 20, 2003)

Holly said:


> I am doubtful that this hive will make it. here is some pictures of what I found when I checked on them after work.
> 
> http://yfrog.com/13dsc07219cj
> 
> http://yfrog.com/50dsc07220qj


That doesn't look like a case of foulbrood, moreso normal housecleaning.


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## Holly (Mar 15, 2010)

Why when I did an inspection I found more dead larvae in cells than live healthy one. also the bees that are trying to chew their way out of the cells looked under developed. I think these bees are a victim of my lack of experience. the only bonus is my other hive is doing great.


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## megank (Mar 28, 2006)

If you could take a picture of what's going on in the hive...especially on tghe frames that would be helpful


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Holly, you need to treat for V-mites.


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## Holly (Mar 15, 2010)

*Update: Tylan for treatment of AFB*

I think I have found the reason for the bees dying. They have been planting corn within walking distance to the house/bee yard. The corn that has the coating of clothianidin on it. The bees must have been bringing the corn dust back to the hive and feeding it to the young. I removed the pollen stores in the hive and gave another pollen patty and it looks to be helping no more dead larvae or pupa are being removed from the hive. 
Thought I would share so if others are having the same problems it might help.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Holly, have you done a mite count?


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## Holly (Mar 15, 2010)

*update Tylan for treatment of AFB*

I was looking for mites when I was in the hive I also was collecting the bees from in front of the hive and checked them out to see if there was any varroa. I put mineral oil on the top bar of the frames to control the mites. I never saw any varroa. I did have bees walking on the ground in front of the hive. I thought it might be tracheal mites so I treated them with menthol.


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

collecting bees from the front of the hive will not give you the varroa #'s
You need bees from the brood chamber.
If you will not check the brood, put in a drop sticky sheet for two days , count and divide by two for the daily count.


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## Holly (Mar 15, 2010)

thank you I will do that and see what I get.


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## G3farms (Jun 13, 2009)

Just my opinion but I think you nailed it with the pesticide poisoning from them bringing in things that "looked" like pollen.

Most of the dead bees that were in your pic were too old to be removed as a almost developed bee to be AFB. The cure for AFB is burn all of the frames and boxes, the drugs will only mask the symptoms of it and when not treated will return. The AFB spore can last for well over 20 years.

Just pouring mineral oil on the top bars is not going to control mites, the bees will remove it, a screened bottom board will do a better job than that. As said above you need to do a mite count, yours could be low or high.

Good luck with it.

G3


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## NewBee2007 (May 6, 2007)

I still do not think I have come across AFB (thank goodness)...
I am curious... with AFB does the brood ever come close to developping fully or does the brood die in the larval stage and then become ropy? Usually the pictures show a gooey and almost liquid form. Would you ever be able to remove the dead brood corpse from the cell? I also see that they show punctured cappings, but if I understand correctly, that is also a sign of heavy mite infestation as well. 
Just curious as to what stage(s) AFB tends to occur. 
Won't all brood that dies before emerging alive from the cell turn black before decomposing?


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