# sqkcrk goes south for Winter 2015-16



## sqkcrk

Because I was asked to, I am starting a new Thread on going south for the 2015-2016 Winter.

As I relearned at the eshpa Summer Picnic, "Winter starts in August". The bees that are ready to Winter in August are the ones most likely to survive the Winter. Those that aren't, you'd better take extra good care of.

During the last couple of days I have started gathering my hives to load on the semi Nov. 10th, I hope. I have to get the bees south, to South Carolina, unload them and spread them out into three or four yards, and then unload another beekeepers semi load. I won't have time to go through them this trip. I have to get back to NY by the evening of the 18th to attend a couple of meeting, the Apiary Industry Advisory Committee Meeting, Nov. 19th, the ESHPA Board Meeting that evening, and then the ESHPA Fall Meeting on Friday and Saturday, Nov. 20 and 21 in East Syracuse, NY. Details at eshpa.org.

I have about 500 hives to transport south. So I will get most of them on the semi and whatever I can get on my F-450. The rest will go south the next trip, some time after Thanksgiving.


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## Kamon A. Reynolds

Sounds like your a busy fella! Following...


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## Bkwoodsbees

Good timing. I was just notified that my county (berkeley) is going to do emergency aerial spraying for mosquitos. This is because of water from our 1000 year flood spraying times 430pm to 7pm. I guess I need to invest in some tarps. Daytime Temps are still in mid 80s. This could be bad, hopefully not.


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## sqkcrk

Do they spray during the day? Seems like that would be when bees would be the most exposed to aerial mosquito spraying.


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## Rader Sidetrack

sqkcrk said:


> Do they spray during the day? Seems like that would be when bees would be the most exposed to aerial mosquito spraying.


Yes, the hours posted by _Bkwoodsbees _(4:30pm to 7pm) are correct. 
Click this link for the article. But don't worry, they have a _plan_ to protect the bees.



> To prevent bee and cricket loss, [HIGHLIGHT]beekeepers and cricket farmers are advised to cover their hives [/HIGHLIGHT] during the applications to their area. Beekeepers, cricket farmers and farmers of other beneficial insects are asked to contact the Mosquito Abatement Office at 843-719-4646 with their contact information, so the Mosquito Abatement Office can notify the beekeepers and cricket farmers by phone prior to the aerial applications.
> 
> http://www.wtma.com/news/berkeley-county-announces-emergency-mosquito-abatement-plan/


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## Bees of SC

Welcome back.


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## GaryG74

Look forward to following your experiences in this adventure!


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## HungryBear

Mark, I sent a batch down already. Have another bunch going within a week.

Trying to get extra equipment built and stock piled for the spring. I am hoping maybe I can make a bunch of boxes for myself here shortly. Made a bunch already but will need many many more.

I will be going south at some point after ESHPA's meeting, taking one of the trucks down and leaving it there for the winter, and Kim will be down there the week before ESHPA's meeting checking on things.


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## sqkcrk

Now you started something you might not be able to stop. lol


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## Bkwoodsbees

Mark I heard from someone today that aerial spraying is going to be state wide. This will continue until weather gets cold. You might want to check with the county you will keep your bees in. Every county should have a mosquito abatement office. The mosquito is our state bird.


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## biggraham610

As always, I wish you a safe trip, and the best of luck Mark. One of these days I'm going to get down there to check out Yours and Herbs operations. Godspeed. G


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## sqkcrk

Bkwoodsbees said:


> Mark I heard from someone today that aerial spraying is going to be state wide. This will continue until weather gets cold. You might want to check with the county you will keep your bees in. Every county should have a mosquito abatement office. The mosquito is our state bird.


Thanks, Bk. I have been contacted by Horry County in the past, but I always have had my bees out of the State by the time they want to spray. I know a guy. I'll talk to the Control Officer.

Thanks, G. Come down when you can. Bring your suit.


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## zhiv9

sqkcrk said:


> As I relearned at the eshpa Summer Picnic, "Winter starts in August". The bees that are ready to Winter in August are the ones most likely to survive the Winter. Those that aren't, you'd better take extra good care of.


So true


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## zhiv9

sqkcrk said:


> I have to get the bees south, to South Carolina, unload them and spread them out into three or four yards, and then unload another beekeepers semi load.
> 
> I have about 500 hives to transport south.


Is it difficult to find yards to hold 100+ hives?


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## jwcarlson

zhiv9 said:


> Is it difficult to find yards to hold 100+ hives?


Not if you stack them 100 high.


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## sqkcrk

zhiv9 said:


> Is it difficult to find yards to hold 100+ hives?


No, not really. Any yard I can locate I can put 25 or more pallets in.

Talked to my friend Ken Stone today. He is in SC. He isn't worried much about the mosquito spraying, even though he says there are a lot more of them and seems as though there are three different sizes of them. He says the spraying goes on at dusk and if the County know where they are they try to avoid them. The State Apiary Inspector does have all of our yards located by GPS.

Ken also said that it isn't all that wet, even with all of the flooding that occurred. Before the flooding farmers were looking to get crop relief because of the drought conditions. And since the flooding they were eligible for flood relief too. That's a hoot. Crop relief from both drought and flood in the same season.


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## sqkcrk

Got the last of the hives gathered into the Home Yd today. Will fill the semi and have 8 pallets of hives to carry on my own truck. Got the last of the honey and supers back from my extractor today too. Made 311 more buckets of honey this year over last year.


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## biggraham610

Nice work. Long day, time for a cold one now. :thumbsup: G


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## clyderoad

sqkcrk said:


> Made 311 more buckets of honey this year over last year.


good for you sqkcrk. great news!


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## hpm08161947

sqkcrk said:


> . Made 311 more buckets of honey this year over last year.


Gee..... you even made honey in the Blueberries! Living right...... I guess.


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## sqkcrk

Yeah, too bad I didn't get any of that gall berry honey extracted.


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## hpm08161947

sqkcrk said:


> Yeah, too bad I didn't get any of that gall berry honey extracted.


Yea... guess when a beekeeper can use Gallberry honey for bee feed, you know he is doing fine.


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## sqkcrk

Well, change in plans. Friends of mine in SC have warned me about going south soon. Seems that with all of the flooding after the hurricane and all of the recent rains the ground is so saturated that it is easy to get a semi or a Bobcat stuck. So I talked with my trucker and he is flexible enough to hold off until the week after Thanksgiving. Which is really better for me. It will give me more flexibility. Less pressure on when I have to be where and when.


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## biggraham610

Good to have friends huh. Coulda been a mess. G


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## wildbranch2007

sqkcrk said:


> So I talked with my trucker and he is flexible enough to hold off until the week after Thanksgiving. Which is really better for me. It will give me more flexibility. Less pressure on when I have to be where and when.


not trying to put any more pressure on you , but do you have a snow plow for that bob cat? with all this nice weather, the snow should be starting pretty quick.


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## snl

Wait till after the first hard freeze (here) to come........

With all the rain, the mosquitoes have bred and bred and bred and will run you right out........they are the worse people who have lived here (well, forever) can remember...........


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## sqkcrk

wildbranch2007 said:


> not trying to put any more pressure on you , but do you have a snow plow for that bob cat? with all this nice weather, the snow should be starting pretty quick.


Gotta bucket, but no plow. Been a while since I loaded in the snow. Time to do it again, maybe.


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## sqkcrk

snl said:


> Wait till after the first hard freeze (here) to come........


When will that be? January some time?

Got the trucker scheduled for the week after Thanksgiving. Don't think I should put him off again. He might get other ideas.


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## hpm08161947

Hard freeze?? Yea... that could be Jan, but surely a really hard frost will occur before thanksgiving.... garden still growing nicely here. Mosquitoes really are nasty, another 3 inches of rain this week and more predicted for the weekend, so a pause does seem prudent.


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## sqkcrk

75 degrees here today. Too bad there isn't anything for the hives to forage on. When I get my Bobcat back from the shop tomorrow I'm going to get the pallet of jars off of the pallet of fondant and set out a feed station some distance away from the hives. Have 900 lbs of it. And it isn't doing anything while in storage.


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## sqkcrk

SC Entry Permit arrived today. Most recent plans are to leave Tuesday or Wednesday after Thanksgiving.


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## hpm08161947

No hard frost here yet. Plants seem confused. I do not know how it is on the Pee Dee, but around here you can get into a field with out too much problem. Of course, nothing for the bees to eat.


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## Joel

sqkcrk said:


> Well, change in plans. Friends of mine in SC have warned me about going south soon. Seems that with all of the flooding after the hurricane and all of the recent rains the ground is so saturated that it is easy to get a semi or a Bobcat stuck. So I talked with my trucker and he is flexible enough to hold off until the week after Thanksgiving. Which is really better for me. It will give me more flexibility. Less pressure on when I have to be where and when.


Yep - One of our yards in Florence SC, completely unaccessable due to water, that area has been having wet issues for the last three springs. Owner is brush hogging a new area for us but it is in rattlesnake central so should be an interesting season. Our 2nd yard is high and dry. I have been researching the ElNino weather pattern impacts on our area there mark and we are likely in for a tough hoe in March and possibly into April water wise.


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## sqkcrk

Hope to be on the road a week after Thanksgiving Day. Plan to be gone from home two weeks.


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## sqkcrk

Well, despite a bad arthritis attack to my left knee the semi and my own truck got loaded this morning and we got down to Pine Grove. PA before 7:00 PM. Should get down to Aynor, SC tomorrow, but not before dark. So unloading will happen Thursday morning. I don't like working a load of bees in the dark. I prefer working into the light. My Trucker agrees.

Photos can be seen on Facebook.


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## biggraham610

Continued safe travels Mark. G


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## virginiawolf

I hope that your Journey goes well Mark. I have enjoyed reading about it so far. 
I wasn't sure where Pine Grove was so I looked it up.
You are about 2 hrs from me or so.
If you get on 81 you will pass me tomorrow

http://www.maps-streetview.com/United-States/Pine-Grove/satelliteview.php


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## sqkcrk

I'll wave as I drive by.


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## Grace&Mercy

Mark, what are your goals for your SC trip? Just getting a feel for the commercial side of things if you don't mind me asking.


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## sqkcrk

To get as many hives through the Winter alive as I possibly can. Come Spring, to replace the deadouts and make as many splits as I can, as I have equipment for. I have 90 nuc boxes and 18 empty 4 way pallets. I have 504 hives on the semi and 16 on my truck. I'll find out soon how many are alive and then go from there when I do.


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## Grace&Mercy

How soon can you work those bees once there? When will they begin bring in spring nectar and pollen? Will you try to equalize now before winter? Do you raise your own queen stock or buy cells or mated queens?

Sorry, I guess I forgot that your "on the road" and probably beat.


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## sqkcrk

I'm going to go through the hives and feed syrup as soon as I can after getting them on the ground and some spread to other yards.

Nectar and pollen comes in sometimes late in January, but usually there is something in February. I start splitting in March. No, won't equalize this trip.

I buy cells from a friend who raises cells and caged queens. I also buy queens from a supplier from GA. I have a standing order for 100 due April 1st each year. If they have some available earlier I get called and will take some earlier.

Good night.


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## Adrian Quiney WI

Mark, throw a dog a bone. Are you able to add a few photos to illustrate your progress and encourage those of us who won't be able to open a box for 4 months?


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## sqkcrk

If adding photos were as easy as it once was I would. Maybe when I see Herb he will have the time to teach me or at least write down the step by step directions. Whenever I try it says my photos are to large and then I see the size of Lauri's photos and think, "Huh? Too large?" 

After I get into my bees I might not want to show anyone any pictures of them. They may look like crap. Who knows.

I did get to SC where rain seems to be the norm this Fall. I hope the semi can get into and especially get out of the yard where I want to unload. It costs enough to get them down here. I don't want to have to pay a semi wrecker to pull him to the road after he's unloaded. But if i do, I know who to call. Squeaky's Towing, Conway, SC. He has hauled me before in time of need.


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## hpm08161947

sqkcrk said:


> If adding photos were as easy as it once was I would. Maybe when I see Herb he will have the time to teach me or at least write down the step by step directions.


Mark, I just use the "Basic Uploader" - it's on the bottom right of where you go to select files...... it doesn't seem to complain about file size.


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## sqkcrk

"Upload of file failed." Did a test and that's what I got.


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## biggraham610

Yes Herb it does. What I do Mark, since I'm pretty weak on the comp myself is, instead of trying to resize it, I just hit the "paint" icon on the bottom, then scribble my initials in a corner and save as a copy. It always downsizes the copy small enough to fit here. Then with basic uploader, just load the copy. Safe Travels. G


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## hpm08161947

I do not know G. This is a big file...... it may depend more on the OS you are using (I use LInux)..... or the memory limitations of your particular machine. When in doubt..... upload to PhotoBucket (or some such) and link..... YMMV


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## biggraham610

Yeah, I know the photobucket thing works, but that's where the pretty weak on the comp comes in.
By the way, thats some TALL CORN!! Were the ears as big as the stalks? One ear feeds a family...........


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## sqkcrk

Got the semi and my own truck unloaded this morning. Went to visit landowners of other yards and left yard rent. The woods where the loading yard is may be logged soon, so I may have to move them. Or, maybe, only have to move them to another part of the hay field.

Temps were pretty cool this morning, so there wasn't much bee activity while unloading. I hope that's why there wasn't much activity. But I do expect there to be a number of dead outs since I was last into my hives about 6 weeks ago and there was some robbing at home when we had some warm weather after I gathered the hives together.

I'll move the pallets of double deeps to two other yards tomorrow morning and then I want to start going through the hives before I go get syrup from a friend of mine. There's no need to get a whole lot more syrup than I am going to feed at once.


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## hpm08161947

biggraham610 said:


> By the way, thats some TALL CORN!! Were the ears as big as the stalks? One ear feeds a family...........


That's not corn..... that's sweet sorghum.


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## sqkcrk

Grown on good soil. I don't remember seeing sorghum that tall before. You must top that crop after cutting the stalks.


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## hpm08161947

sqkcrk said:


> Grown on good soil. I don't remember seeing sorghum that tall before. You must top that crop after cutting the stalks.


Yea that was some pretty tall sorghum, but it grows pretty tall around here. :You chop off the head before it is squeezed.

Unharvested sorghum that is left in the field and allowed to ripen will draw honey bees like nothing I have ever seen.... now what they gain from it I do not know. I used to wonder what feeding sorgum juice to honey bees would do for them.... after the juice is concentrated it would make for fairly expensive bee feed.


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## biggraham610

Wow, I have never seen sorghum that tall. That is impressive. Glad you made it safe Mark. Hope the casualties are low. G


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## virginiawolf

Mark, I'm glad the trip is going well so far. I have a question for you. Do you have a strategy for trying to eat healthy when you are traveling? Do you have a cook stove or something for cooking up meals? Do you eat at truck stops and such? Curious


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## sqkcrk

Can't say I have a strategy to eat healthy when traveling or not. But I did carry a bag of apples with me. Along with a bag of ham, some pumpkin pie, and a jug of cider left over from Thanksgiving. I carry a jug of water too, no soft drinks.


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## cg3

Have a Ned Burger for me.


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## hpm08161947

cg3 said:


> Have a Ned Burger for me.






> Buy the ticket, take the ride. -H.S. Thompson


Something told me that you might be a "Hunter" fan....


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## sqkcrk

I guess I should be glad my truck made it as far as it did, but it died again this morning and has been towed to the garage to find out what's wrong. I'm glad it is empty and that the Bobcat is out in the yard where the hives are. Now I just need to figure out what to do next.

Maybe Enterprise deserves a call.

My hopes are that this is just like what happened before when the fuel tank lining deteriorated and fouled the fuel filter.


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## cg3

My favorite is- "Have faith, but row away from the rocks."


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## deknow

Mark....this is a great excuse to buy a Vespa or something similar.


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## sqkcrk

Yeah, thought about that before too. I saw a couple of those "Smart Cars" on my way down here and wondered if I could get one across the front of my trailer. I don't know if I would fit into one or not.


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## hpm08161947

sqkcrk said:


> I guess I should be glad my truck made it as far as it did, but it died again this morning and has been towed to the garage to find out what's wrong. I'm glad it is empty and that the Bobcat is out in the yard where the hives are. Now I just need to figure out what to do next.
> 
> Maybe Enterprise deserves a call.


If it gets really bad.... and you need something..... the old GMC 6500 is still here.


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## sqkcrk

Thanks, Herb.


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## hpm08161947

cg3 said:


> My favorite is- "Have faith, but row away from the rocks."


My Favorite -


> The only difference between the sane and the insane is that the sane have the power to lock up the insane.


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## cg3

hpm08161947 said:


> My Favorite -


I think we might be entering bat country now.


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## hpm08161947

cg3 said:


> I think we might be entering bat country now.


Fear and Loathing..... heh heh  Gonzo.


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## sqkcrk

Metal in a fuel sample. No fuel pressure. May just have to replace the fuel pump and filter. Dropping the fuel tanks to check the liners.


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## hpm08161947

sqkcrk said:


> Metal in a fuel sample. No fuel pressure. May just have to replace the fuel pump and filter. Dropping the fuel tanks to check the liners.


Can't be any worse than it was up in Etown. Hope those injectors did not get fouled.


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## virginiawolf

Thanks for answering. I imagine you would get hungry from working and I picture you would be camped out and I wasn't sure if the truck has a fridge or how that works like if you bring dried food and cases of water and what not. I hope that the repairing of the truck works out. Has there been any new info on the truck?


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## sqkcrk

Quite an imagination, VW. No, I don't camp out, have a fridge in the truck, or carry dried foods. I stay in Motels and eat at restaurants or buy food at grocery stores. There are some pretty good microwaveable meals available these days.

Got the truck back. A day down, my Doctor prescribed a day of rest for my knee anyway, and a new fuel pump and filter and I'm mobile again. So back to moving hives to other yards, going through them, getting syrup, and feeding them.


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## beemandan

sqkcrk said:


> Metal in a fuel sample.


Glad you got your truck fixed. How does one go about getting metal in the fuel?


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## sqkcrk

I have asked that a couple times. The serviceman doesn't think it is significant, needs any worry.


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## beemandan

I suppose it could be the result of the fuel pump failing. I just had never heard of it. I'm guessing that you are up at this hour on a Saturday to work bees. I'm loading up to go to the market. The life of a beekeeper.


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## jim lyon

Mark, are you stil driving the 450 with the 6.0? (Or 6. Uh oh as some call it). I still have my 2002 7.3 liter 450 and it was my all time favorite until a couple years ago when it just stopped on me one day. Since then it's been one sensor replacement after another. Now with the newer trucks and their def systems, the cheaper cost of gasoline and the ridiculously high up charge to go diesel, I seriously doubt I would buy another diesel truck.


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## Brian Suchan

My vote goes for the gas burners too! Stupid dpf sensors anyway.


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## Barry

Reinforces why I've stayed with V10's.


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## beeware10

the def system is just a result of the gov helping us. sad but true. we also are considering going to gas. we had a ram 3500 4x4 with a 5.9 cummins. best truck we ever had. discontinued to meet gov regulations.


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## MTN-Bees

Mark: I hope you're feeling better and the day of rest helped.


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## biggraham610

Glad the Trucks back up Mark. Good luck to you in the boxes today. G


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## wildbranch2007

as a side note, a mechanic on a tractor forum I use said he would avoid the new ford diesels as the fuel system now runs at something like 30,000 psi and the hole in the injector is really really smaller than the old injectors, my assumption was that he envisions problems with the fuel system.


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## Barry

Get yourself a heavy duty VW diesel. They have a way of getting around the emissions issue!


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## HarryVanderpool

There is an inherent problem with our chassis-cab trucks and that is the venting system for the fuel tanks.
In addition to the crud that the vent allows into the tank, there is a strainer on the pickup tube that eventually clogs.
Think about it. Our trucks have oil filters, air filters and fuel filters on the engine.
They are changed regularly.
But for some reason we assume that that pickup tube strainer in our fuel tank should be just fine for 400,000 miles!!?? 
Not sure about the other brands, but there are two teeny-tiney filters inside of the Ford fuel pump that eventually fail after getting clogged.
This takes out the pump. Yes, it pumps just enough fuel at low pressure to fool one into thinking it is O.K. but only a pressure - flow test will unmask the problem.
Then, there is the problem of the dissolving metallic liner inside the fuel tanks that all but assure failure of the system if nothing else does.
There is a solution.
And Ford Motor Company is the first to suggest this solution when this common problem happens:
1) Rinse out the tank and replace the strainer with a less restrictive screen/strainer available from Ford.
2) Install a Raycor fuel filter between the tank and pump.
3) Install new pump.
4) Replace fuel filter on engine.
Your fuel problems are over. In fact you will not to change your fuel filter on the engine but every 5 years or so and even then it will look like brand new.
The Raycor filter has a large plastic bulb that allows you to see how much crud is passing from the tank.
Super easy to remove the bulb and unscrew the filter and replace.
I am buying a new F-550 in a few weeks and it will have a Raycor on it from day one.
I have a friend that has a large fleet of Dodge flatbeds.
He told me that the auto dealer that he buys them from asks him right up front if he wants a Raycor installed because they recommend it.


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## sqkcrk

jim lyon said:


> Mark, are you stil driving the 450 with the 6.0? (Or 6. Uh oh as some call it).


Yes, until my 2016 arrives and gets a bed on it. Then I'll let someone else have it. Though I don't know if he will thank me for it in the long run.


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## sqkcrk

MTN-Bees said:


> Mark: I hope you're feeling better and the day of rest helped.


Thanks, MTN. Somewhat better. I hope that eventually that left knee will get to where it doesn't hurt to bend it as it seems to about every time I go to push in the clutch on my truck. I wasn't all that sold on the idea of having an F-450 w/an automatic transmission. But now that my clutch leg is messed up, not having a clutch will be nice.

I considered going with the gas engine. Can't remember why, but there was a reason why it was decided that it was best to go with the diesel. Probably fuel economy or something.


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## sqkcrk

So, Harry, that Raycor filter is something one has to install themselves after buying the new truck?

What does one rinse the tank out with? Do Diesel Mechanics know how to do that? Or is that a dumb question?

Why does anyone build a fuel tank that deteriorates? Has a lining that breaks down? It's a tank of oil.

I like your tag line. As a practitioner of PPB, I know why my bees die. I need to figure out how to keep more of them alive, longer.


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## HarryVanderpool

sqkcrk said:


> So, Harry, that Raycor filter is something one has to install themselves after buying the new truck?


You can, or Ford will if you ask.



sqkcrk said:


> What does one rinse the tank out with? Do Diesel Mechanics know how to do that? Or is that a dumb question?


When you take your truck into a reputable Ford dealership with a problem, Ford Motor Company has a procedure for that problem. That procedure is to be followed to the letter.
It isn't like they scratch their head and wonder where to start.
Their procedures are finely honed, time tested, gnats ass perfect repairs for your problem.
And believe me, your problem is one they have repaired tens of thousands of times.
The list I gave you is the prescription Ford dictates for your problem on your 450.

If you take your truck to an independent shop will they make the best repair for the given circumstances?
Maybe.
I was shocked when we found about 1/2" of mud in the bottom of our 99 F450 tank.
Pickup tube was clogged, filters in the pump was clogged, pump was shot.
Same old story; different day.
My new 550 will have a Raycor before it has 20 miles on it.

Your tag line works for me as well.


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## sqkcrk

So, I should have it done before I take possession of the truck, you seem to be saying.

When I had a my first egr valve and oil cooler breakdown it angered me no end that instead of replacing all the parts that they had to have known were effected they had to wait until each of them failed. Kept me from my Spring work for almost a month.


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## virginiawolf

I'm glad that you got things worked out Mark. I'm glad there was a mechanic available. An issue with fuel seems like one of those problems that could take more than a day. I'm glad it worked out and you could rest up your shifting leg also
Thanks for explaining about the lodging and day to day things as well. I wasn't sure if the truck has like a little sleeping compartment like my imagination painted. I suppose I imagined the bee yards being some mystical place away from hotels and what not so I imagined you might have to pull over and sleep in the truck and have snacks and things like that.

I have enjoyed this thread man. I feel like I'm along with you in a sense


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## Roland

Barry wrote:

Get yourself a heavy duty VW diesel. They have a way of getting around the emissions issue! 


Hey!!!! I represent that remark. And VW was thinking pf me and my Diesel Westfalia VW camper, sink stove reffer and 2 beds. 


Glad you are better now SQKCRK. 


Crazy Roland


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## wildbranch2007

sqkcrk said:


> Why does anyone build a fuel tank that deteriorates? Has a lining that breaks down? It's a tank of oil.


from the stuff I read last time you had a problem, Fords response was that the tanks were designed for the fuel that was available at that time, so their tanks were metal, Dodge had a plastic fuel tank.
and the crud that harry talks about was a real problem after the new fuel came out, I had to keep replacing fuel filters until all the crud left my tank but no problem with the fuel pump. I have a cheby diesel now and they haven't had a problem yet, except right after the new fuel they changed the filter to be finer and pick up more stuff. good luck.


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## RAK

HarryVanderpool said:


> I am buying a new F-550 in a few weeks and it will have a Raycor on it from day one.


:thumbsup:


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## My-smokepole

I have 6 litter ford Diesel That the tank lining is showing signs of the lining falling. Only a 18500 miles on it. One more problem for this truck.


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## biggraham610

Mark have you had an opportunity to get in the hives, do assessments and feed yet? G


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## sqkcrk

My-smokepole said:


> I have 6 litter ford Diesel That the tank lining is showing signs of the linking falling. Only a 18500 miles on it. One more problem for this truck.


Then replace the tank before the problem occurs. How did you figure that out?


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## deknow

You wait until it fails, then make sure you replaced it already :scratch:


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## sqkcrk

Graham, I was in some of them. As is usually true, the live ones very in strength and quality and the dead ones are dead and too many. Even though I don't know how many that is yet having not gone through very many yet. I did feed some syrup, but not a lot yet.

Unloading Lynn Barton's semi load tomorrow morning and then spreading them to other yards. During the day I will check and feed my own hives.


----------



## clyderoad

sqkcrk- maybe some of those bees just pooped out after working so hard making all that honey up there in the north country for you
this year.


----------



## sqkcrk

eyah

It would be interesting to know whether the live colonies are the ones I made last Spring or not. But I have not kept track of them in any way.


----------



## biggraham610

Well good luck with the rest, and don't overwork that knee.:no: G


----------



## sqkcrk

How do I not overwork it and get my work done? That will be a trick.


----------



## biggraham610

Gonna be tough, but I am sure you will come up with a plan. Good Luck. G


----------



## clyderoad

sqkcrk said:


> eyah
> 
> It would be interesting to know whether the live colonies are the ones I made last Spring or not. But I have not kept track of them in any way.


yup. interesting thought isn't it?

re overworking the knee: slow and steady will win the race. patience helps too.
works for me armstronging it.


----------



## My-smokepole

A: it was time to change the filters. Did this week. Plus it was stalling every so often. B when I did I Discovered Little flackes in the drain pan. Just found out this weekend what was going on. Sounds like a continuing problem with plastic tanks. Haven't found a tank yet for replacement. This is in a E-350 van. Was add comments more for other people to have a heads up on this problem. Common in a lot of Ford 450 and 550 fords.


----------



## wildbranch2007

My-smokepole said:


> A: it was time to change the filters. Common in a lot of Ford 450 and 550 fords.


I was taught to cut open the fuel filter and oil filter and take a look, must admit I don't do it very often any more. here is a copy of a post by a ford diesel mechanic on the tractor forum with a place to get a replacemnet.



> The chassis cab trucks which often ended up with flatbeds, utility bodies, ambulance bodies, etc have galvanized fuel tanks. Diesel fuel and galvanized steel don't mix well at all, over time the galvanizing inside the tank will dissolve and get into the fuel system.
> 
> The factory pickup bed trucks don't have this issue that I'm aware of, and the frames are different enough between the pickup and chassis cab that tanks won't interchange. A company called Transfer Flow makes replacement poly tanks, they're bigger than the factory one. Last I checked the tank alone from them was $8-900.


here is another one
http://www.thoroughbreddiesel.com/t...=titan fuel tanks&utm_creative=e&utm_device=c


----------



## biggraham610

How about a report on todays Progress Mark.


----------



## sqkcrk

Knee somewhat better.

Lynn Barton's bees arrived today, in the pouring rain. after a couple hours the rain let up some, but not completely. So I got the load on the ground and got a bit wet. After a time, after the semi left, the rain let up enough to move two loads out to two yards, leaving two loads left to move. Which I hope to do tomorrow morning and the next morning.

Lynn's brother, Richard, arrives Wednesday with some more equipment. I hope to get into more of my own hives tomorrow.


----------



## biggraham610

Great, glad the knee is hanging in. Saw a front rolling in this afternoon here unexpected. Flying weather. Should be all week. Hope the rain holds off and your knee cooperates so you can make continued progress tomorrow. G


----------



## sqkcrk

"Son of a .....!!" 

Well, if it isn't one thing, it's another. Got up this morning, started the truck, let it warm up a while, came back and "Water In Fuel" is displayed on my dashboard. So I switched tanks, called a mechanic, went and moved a load of hives out of the staging yd into another of Lynn's yds, and the "Water In Fuel" indicator came on again. Took the truck to the Ford Dealer in Conway and the fuel sample is cloudy. The tanks need to be drained, dropped, cleaned and dried, and reinstalled. Good thing there's nothing pressing, nothing that I absolutely need to be doing, today. But this is getting ridiculous. Could have been worse. All these problems could have happened between NY and SC.

I do have a load of equipment to unload when it gets here tomorrow. But I think we can get my trailer and skidsteer with the truck with the equipment on it, if mine isn't on the road by then.


----------



## jim lyon

Mark, coming right after your post talking about pouring rain makes me think there is a connection either with your truck allowing some water in the tank or perhaps with your last fuel up. It might not hurt to inquire there, I've heard of situations where localized ground flooding have contaminated underground fuel tanks. They are supposed to have electronic monitoring but I would sure check with them, though it would surprise me if you got a straight answer.


----------



## sqkcrk

Good advice, Jim. I am going to go back where I got the fuel and see if their insurance will cover the repair cost. Even though I didn't keep the receipt.


----------



## wildbranch2007

the other thing Mark, at least on my trucks, the testing for water in fuel is done at the fuel filter, so switching tanks probably wouldn't help.


----------



## beemandan

sqkcrk said:


> Even though I didn't keep the receipt.


If you paid using a credit card.....there ought to still be a record.


----------



## wdcrkapry205

I have an E350 w/ over 375,000 miles, hope I don't jinx myself.


Barry said:


> Reinforces why I've stayed with V10's.


----------



## Roland

Does your diesel filter have a drain on it? Do you carry a spare? When I go out on service calls for engine problems, that is the first step. drain the filter and/or replace it.

Talk to the over the road truckers at a truck stop. There is a reason the patronize certain stops.

Crazy Roland


----------



## sqkcrk

The drain is on the pump. I'm not sure where the sensor is. I watched the mechanic drain a quart of fuel out of the pump from underneath the truck, tightly between the drive shaft and frame(?). The fuel is cloudy. I don't know how much water is in the fuel. I wonder how much it takes before the truck doesn't run well. It ran fine.

I also wonder what the person who buys the fuel from my tanks from the Dealership does with it. Can one somehow strain the water out or let it settle and syphon the fuel off?


----------



## Rader Sidetrack

My understanding is that using a centrifuge with contaminated oils/fuels can be used to separate out some of the various components. More info: http://www.sequoia-global.com/waste-fuel-recycling/

Filter manufacturer _Donaldson_'s take on water in diesel: http://www.mycleandiesel.com/pages/SolutionWater.aspx
Note their comments on ULSD vs diesel with higher levels of sulfur (older style diesel).


----------



## jim lyon

sqkcrk said:


> The drain is on the pump. I'm not sure where the sensor is. I watched the mechanic drain a quart of fuel out of the pump from underneath the truck, tightly between the drive shaft and frame(?). The fuel is cloudy. I don't know how much water is in the fuel. I wonder how much it takes before the truck doesn't run well. It ran fine.
> 
> I also wonder what the person who buys the fuel from my tanks from the Dealership does with it. Can one somehow strain the water out or let it settle and syphon the fuel off?


I wouldn't concern myself with saving the fuel, it's a tiny fraction compared to the cost of injectors and injector pump replacement and repairs. I had a pretty experienced Ford diesel mechanic tell me the biggest weakness of the 6.0 is that it has a really touchy fuel system that dosent tolerate bad fuel at all.


----------



## sqkcrk

I have no desire to keep the fuel. I was just curious.


----------



## wildbranch2007

I was somewhat curious, like usual, but since you said they were checking the tanks, did they drain the fuel out and put it back in?


----------



## sqkcrk

That's the plan. Just waiting on a new gasket for the pump and I'll have the truck back again.


----------



## Roland

SQKCRK - your location description sounds like he drained a filter. A pump is usually attached to the engine because it needs to be rotated/powered by the engine. I could be wrong. If it was the filter he drained, pick up a spare for the road. Some believe he paper elements soak up some of the water, and can restrict the flow. A fresh filter on the road might save you a tow truck fee.


Crazy Roland


----------



## Brian Suchan

Mark, how often do you change your filters? I did often on my 6.0 and always had a spare set behind the seat. If needed. And happened more than once. Sucks in the middle of winter in wyoming


----------



## Brian Suchan

That one along the driveshaft is not the pump. Just the first of two fuel filters. It has a drain on it to get rid of water. The other is on top on the engine next to the oil filter.


----------



## Ian

It might be a good idea to buy some fuel conditioner, especially if water has been running through


----------



## beemandan

After over forty years of driving I've never gotten any water in my gasoline. Nor have I ever had the emergency need to replace a fuel filter alongside a highway. I bought one pickup truck new and drove it for well over 200,000 miles without a single fuel system failure. Are these things common to diesel...or have I been exceptionally lucky?


----------



## jim lyon

beemandan said:


> After over forty years of driving I've never gotten any water in my gasoline. Nor have I ever had the emergency need to replace a fuel filter alongside a highway. I bought one pickup truck new and drove it for well over 200,000 miles without a single fuel system failure. Are these things common to diesel...or have I been exceptionally lucky?


It's mostly a diesel thing particularly newer diesels with all the emissions gadgetry. I think if you had lived in a colder climate you would have experienced some problems with gas engines as well. The big difference is when it happens to a gas engine repairs aren't nearly as expensive. Diesel injector pumps and injectors are really expensive.


----------



## Adrian Quiney WI

Non-mechanic, non-mechanical person questions: How old is the truck? How in the 21st century can there be such basic problems with the quality of work vehicles? We are not talking about recreational vehicles, in which a failure means a spoiled weekend, these are machines upon which people depend for their livelihoods. 

Mark, I am enjoying this thread.


----------



## deknow

I enjoy the contrast between this thread and the bee pod (and flow hive) threads.

Some things that work fine seem expensive before you buy it. Some things that need repair are expensive after you buy it.


----------



## clyderoad

deknow said:


> I enjoy the contrast between this thread and the bee pod (and flow hive) threads.
> 
> Some things that work fine seem expensive before you buy it. Some things that need repair are expensive after you buy it.


What?


----------



## deknow

If a $1000 beehive has a leaky roof....even if it kills all the bees will cost maybe $500 in lost revues (replace the bees, loss of honey).

If a $20,000 truck has a leaky tank that lets water in, $500 might cover the repair, but you still have the work that didn't get done.....or the load of bees in the truck and on the trailer that didn't get placed before the rain.


----------



## beemandan

Adrian Quiney WI said:


> How in the 21st century can there be such basic problems with the quality of work vehicles?


I have to wonder about this too. Many of the over the road rigs run hundreds of thousands of miles each year. If they had these sorts of failures the highways would be littered with them broken down. I'm wondering if it isn't the 'in betweens'. Those diesels made by Ford, GM or Chrysler that are simply extensions of their gasoline designs. 
I, too, am enjoying this thread. My apologies for taking it to a different tangent...but I wasn't able to ignore it.


----------



## jim lyon

deknow said:


> I enjoy the contrast between this thread and the bee pod (and flow hive) threads.
> 
> Some things that work fine seem expensive before you buy it. Some things that need repair are expensive after you buy it.


With the new clean deisel technology they get you on both ends. In the old days there was nothing more reliable than a deisel engine of course you wouldn't want to drive behind one for very far. Now we have swung to the other extreme as the EPA is mandating low emission engines that are costly, trouble prone, and have somehow managed to reduce both power and mileage. 
Want an earful? Ask a driver of a new deisel who's filling up with def at any truck stop how he likes his new truck. I haven't heard a good report yet. A guy who has hauled a lot of bees for me just bought one this summer and when I asked him this fall how he liked it, boy did he ever let me know. His mileage dropped from 6 to 7 mpg down to between 4 and 5 and with less power than before. Caterpillar engines, long the gold standard In truck engines, decided to get out of the truck business entirely.


----------



## Ian

I just UPGRADED from a mid 2000's medium duty Ford to a mid 2000's medium duty GMC... Fords left me one too many times...


----------



## hpm08161947

I hope my old Cat engine in my GMC 6500 lasts forever. About the only engine I have that I can depend on.


----------



## sqkcrk

Roland said:


> SQKCRK - your location description sounds like he drained a filter. A pump is usually attached to the engine because it needs to be rotated/powered by the engine. I could be wrong. If it was the filter he drained, pick up a spare for the road. Some believe he paper elements soak up some of the water, and can restrict the flow. A fresh filter on the road might save you a tow truck fee.
> 
> 
> Crazy Roland


Thanks, CR.


----------



## sqkcrk

Ian said:


> It might be a good idea to buy some fuel conditioner, especially if water has been running through


There was a small jug of fuel conditioner on the seat of the truck when I got it back. Treats 35 gallons. Guess I'd better buy a case.


----------



## sqkcrk

deknow said:


> If a $1000 beehive has a leaky roof....even if it kills all the bees will cost maybe $500 in lost revues (replace the bees, loss of honey).
> 
> If a $20,000 truck has a leaky tank that lets water in, $500 might cover the repair, but you still have the work that didn't get done.....or the load of bees in the truck and on the trailer that didn't get placed before the rain.


Water didn't get in the tanks because they were leaky. This part of the country, coastal South Carolina, was underwater for quite a while recently. I suspect that the last place I bought fuel has water in their fuel tanks. Though it seems like they shouldn't, just as much as my tanks shouldn't.


----------



## sqkcrk

beemandan said:


> I have to wonder about this too. Many of the over the road rigs run hundreds of thousands of miles each year. If they had these sorts of failures the highways would be littered with them broken down. I'm wondering if it isn't the 'in betweens'. Those diesels made by Ford, GM or Chrysler that are simply extensions of their gasoline designs.
> I, too, am enjoying this thread. My apologies for taking it to a different tangent...but I wasn't able to ignore it.


For the type of truck I need it fits my needs pretty well, barring the breakdowns. I imagine had a I gotten into a Freightliner I might not have as many problems or as often. But I don't want a bigger truck. Maybe, if I was younger I would get a CDL and get a bigger truck.


----------



## deknow

Ok....for a $500,000 tank to leak when it rains.....


----------



## beeware10

mark unless something has changed your motor is made by Ih and is used in school buses and trucks larger than a f450. did you ask at the ford garage where they bought fresh fuel to replace yours as that station should be water free fuel.


----------



## sqkcrk

deknow said:


> Ok....for a $500,000 tank to leak when it rains.....


I don't know, Dean. Somehow water got in my tanks. Both of them. I filled them up on Sunday, drove maybe 75 miles Monday. Tuesday morning, when I got up and let the engine warm up, the dashboard display read "WATER IN FUEL". Knowing how flooded this area was just recently, King's Highway, the main drag that parallels the beach at Myrtle Beach, had 18 inches of water flowing down it. So what would you think? How did water get into my fuel if it wasn't pumped into it?


----------



## deknow

Mark, I'm not trying to give you a hard time.

The thing that would concern me first is that it happens often enough for them to put a specific warning light for the situation.


----------



## sqkcrk

Okay. Don't know what to say to that. I did see the fuel sample and a clean sample. And the sample out of my tanks was cloudy. Not clear. Just to explain what I saw when the sample was taken.


----------



## hpm08161947

sqkcrk said:


> I don't know, Dean. Somehow water got in my tanks. Both of them. I filled them up on Sunday, drove maybe 75 miles Monday. Tuesday morning, when I got up and let the engine warm up, the dashboard display read "WATER IN FUEL". Knowing how flooded this area was just recently, King's Highway, the main drag that parallels the beach at Myrtle Beach, had 18 inches of water flowing down it. So what would you think? How did water get into my fuel if it wasn't pumped into it?


One only has to have been in NC the last few months and to hear that things were far far worse in SC to understand what happened. Those tanks are waterproofed but probably not submersible.


----------



## sqkcrk

Yesterday, before my truck got released from the shop, Lynn's brother, Richard got here with a load of equipment for me to unload for him. So Richard came to the Motel and spent the night.

This morning I got up, went out to the bee yard on the Pee Dee, loaded up the last 28 pallets of Lynn's bees, and hauled them across the river to the Larrimore Yd. Right as I was getting in the truck, after setting the last pallet in the yd, Richard called me to let me know he'd gotten to the place where he wanted the equipment unloaded. So I ran over to Dog Bluff Rd and unloaded Richard's truck.

After that I went back to the Pines Yd, dropped the trailer, loaded up my tank of syrup, and went to lunch in Aynor, at The Aynor Inn.

After lunch I went to the Hardee Yd to go through the 80 hives that were there. Eight of which were dead. Two of which were heavy with honey but weak on bees. So, ignoring what the BIP reported lately, I followed my usual M.O. and set the boxes of honey on top of other strong hives. The rest I fed a gallon of syrup to. That was enough for one day.

Went back to the Motel and did my laundry. Yawn.


----------



## biggraham610

Felt good getting to work didn't it.  Hows the knee holding up Mark? G


----------



## Roland

Mr. Lyon is correct. Back in the '70s, diesel injection pressure was in the 3,000 PSI range, and everything was mechanical. Now pressures are much higher, 30,000 PSI?, and all orifices and clearances are also smaller, and electronics control the injection. Couple that with the removal of the sulfur which was a steel on steel lubricant, and the addition of Urea and particulate filters, and the complexity has increased faster than the reliability.

Many of those who are owner operators are buying "glider kits", which is a new truck, but no engine, and possibly no transmission and axles. That way they get a new cab, but not the DEF and electronic motors. In our world of dump trucks, the older truck has the fewest problems, and the newest the most.

Yes, the middle sized trucks are not made to the standards of the over the road or dump trucks. If they where they would cost almost what an over the road truck does. Any savings in material cost would be lost in economy of scale.

Crazy Roland


----------



## wildbranch2007

sqkcrk said:


> So, ignoring what the BIP reported lately, I followed my usual M.O. and set the boxes of honey on top of other strong hives.


ok stop holding out, what has the BIP reported lately that goes counter to what you normally do?


----------



## sqkcrk

biggraham610 said:


> Felt good getting to work didn't it.  Hows the knee holding up Mark? G


Swollen some this morning. We'll see. Want to go get syrup today.


----------



## sqkcrk

wildbranch2007 said:


> ok stop holding out, what has the BIP reported lately that goes counter to what you normally do?


You must have missed the Thread about how feeding, even feeding frames of honey, kills bees.


----------



## Rader Sidetrack

Mike, here is that BIP feeding thread:
http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...g-bees-is-harmful-do-u-agree-research-article

And here is part of the BIP survey page cited in that thread ...


> In every case, feeding honeybees frames of honey increases their chance of death. Talk about the unexpected! Let me repeat: if you feed your honeybees that which they would feed themselves, frames of honey, then you are increasing their chance of death. We don’t know the cause. But we have strong survey data speaking and we should listen.
> 
> https://beeinformed.org/2014/06/27/feeding-honeybees-honey-may-increase-mortality/


----------



## beemandan

Roland said:


> Yes, the middle sized trucks are not made to the standards of the over the road or dump trucks. If they where they would cost almost what an over the road truck does.


Heck...if they were built to the same standards as the big rigs....they'd be big rigs. But we don't need to redesign the entire drive train, suspension or anything but the fuel delivery system.....right? What is there in the design of the big trucks' fuel system that makes them more reliable but would be prohibitively expensive to incorporate in the smaller trucks? It is still hard to understand why the fuel systems on those middle sized trucks cannot be made more reliable. As was pointed out earlier....people are trying to make their living with these trucks.
Sounds like busy times Mark....even when the truck is working. A curiosity though. When you bought that bad tank of fuel....what sort of place was it? A name brand place on a busy highway....or an off name....or some remote low traffic outfit?


----------



## biggraham610

sqkcrk said:


> Swollen some this morning. We'll see. Want to go get syrup today.


Good luck. Hope it holds up for you. G


----------



## sqkcrk

It was a place in Conway, SC. A place with a common name around here. I forget the name. Not a Mom and Pop independent convenience store.


----------



## beemandan

sqkcrk said:


> Not a Mom and Pop independent convenience store.


I can't imagine that you are the only person to buy a tank of bad fuel from them. Did you go back and tell them?


----------



## wildbranch2007

Rader Sidetrack said:


> Mike, here is that BIP feeding thread:
> http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...g-bees-is-harmful-do-u-agree-research-article
> 
> And here is part of the BIP survey page cited in that thread ...


thanks, luckily I don't believe every thing they say, I'm with Mark, I'll keep feeding, they die faster when they starve.


----------



## sqkcrk

beemandan said:


> I can't imagine that you are the only person to buy a tank of bad fuel from them. Did you go back and tell them?


Yes. Went back this morning and started a Claim with the Home Office. Process started.


----------



## beeware10

mark did they drain all the fuel or just filters and add fuel conditioner? the way our weather is holding we may not go south til after Christmas.


----------



## hpm08161947

Bet Jan. is the coldest Jan on record!! We can't seem to get out of the 70s, probably be 80 here tomorrow. I'd like to see a little winter.... this can't be good for my bees.


----------



## sqkcrk

beeware10 said:


> mark did they drain all the fuel or just filters and add fuel conditioner? the way our weather is holding we may not go south til after Christmas.


Tanks were drained, removed, cleaned, inspected, and reinstalled.


----------



## beeware10

hope things go better for ya. we use howes diesel treatment to prevent water and lubricant problems. so far so good. bees were flying today cleaning out supers. strange weather to say the least. don't want to see ya there after Christmas. lol


----------



## sqkcrk

Still have quite a few hives to go through. Went and got 250 gallons of syrup.


----------



## clyderoad

Is syrup easy to find in SC? and reasonably priced?


----------



## sqkcrk

I get syrup from friends who have it, if they have it to spare. Otherwise I have to go to Charlotte, NC to get it. Which is a bit of a hike. And takes planning.


----------



## sqkcrk

Having gone through all of the hives I brought south, looks like I could have left 16% of them in NY because that's how many are dead. Still have well over 400 live hives at this time. Fed a gallon of syrup to each of them that have feeders in them and set some boxes of honey on some. I came across a few hives that had no, or almost no, bees in them but had a medium super full of honey. So I set those on hives that could use it best.

I set empty supers underneath strong colonies that looked like they could use the room.

If it looks like the weather will be warm enough to make coming back in a month worth the trip, that's what I will do. To feed syrup and maybe protein patties to stimulate brood growth. If not then, then in February.


----------



## clyderoad

Won't all that empty equipment be used up during that warm(er) winter and come back north with bees in it?
Sure couldn't do that up here early enough to make it pay off in spades.
Maybe get global, or whoever you like best, to send some patties down to give them all a jump start when the time comes.
what's the plan for the empties? 
how are you holding up?


----------



## irwin harlton

Barring any unforeseen difficulties and any future losses you should have not much trouble making up up your losses from the live bees.
Was there anything you think caused the majority of the deaths, starvation, mites ,etc? AND SOMETHING YOU NOTICED THAT YOU COULD DO DIFFERENT TO CUT THESE LOSSES,My losses are usually within that range, as low as 10% and higher.TS WHEN YOU GET OVER 24 % LOSSES AND ONCE YOU EXCEED 30% that its impossible to make up losses.Do you expect or will there be future losses that would be normal for a normal year, as it is only December and we have a ways to go till spring, about 4 months in my country.


----------



## sqkcrk

clyde, the knee is feeling a little better each day. Had a half day off today because of the rain.

16% of what was alive when I last took honey off is now dead. I always consider losses like this the equipment I don't need to bring down on another load. Next load will be nuc boxes. Some with waxed plastic foundation and some empty. Empty since I already brought 56 deep boxes of comb which I used to help make the load more level.

I don't know Irwin. Maybe do a better job at keeping track of mites and then treating the ones with high mite levels early, even if that means taking honey off of them early.

I expect a few more losses. Can't predict how many.


----------



## biggraham610

Glad the knee is holding up for you Mark. 16% coulda been worse I expect. I am sure you will make the most of it when the time comes to make splits and you wont feel it too bad. Get some rest, sure you can use it. G


----------



## clyderoad

At least you'll get to use them down there. I had 12% loss this fall so far and a few more I expect to add to the total.
On the brightside for you is that in my situation the empties will be stacked
up with no chance of getting back into service until April at the earliest. You'll be filling them long before that and I think you'll be glad they are down there in the long run.
My losses have me questioning this years maqs treatment in August. The others seem to have gone queenless after unsuccessful
supersedure, not uncommon in a couple of my yards because of migrating swallows and swifts everywhere in late summer/early fall and 
I think the queens get picked off regularly.
Sounds like you're hanging in there, good.
Is the weather working in your favor?


----------



## sqkcrk

Mostly.


----------



## Ian

Bet those were queen problem hives. My queen problem hive losses are creeping upwards on me every summer...


----------



## sqkcrk

Water in fuel again. Not as much as before. Some little globules of water in the bottom of the bucket. The shop is going to drain the tank of fuel and put some clean fuel in it again. We had a real down pour yesterday. But no one seems to know how water can begetting in the tank.

Before I went to get fuel, which is when the display came on, I fed the rest of the syrup to the two yds of doubles. Then the plan was to get headed north. Hope to stop in VA for the weekend for Alexis' 2nd birthday party. We'll see.


----------



## deknow

Mark, sorry to hear that.

I wonder if there is either some condensation issues, or if as the truck/air temp lowers that the contracting air in the tank is sucking it in through a vent.


----------



## wildbranch2007

sqkcrk said:


> Before I went to get fuel, which is when the display came on,


so are they finding it in one tank or both, It's got to be the tanks if you hadn't filled up in a while, I had the filler pipe crack once when they had dropped my tank.


----------



## virginiawolf

I've been pulling for you. Sorry to hear about more truck issues. I hope that you can have your truck running great the rest of the trip.


----------



## biggraham610

Dang it Mark. Playing hell with the truck. Good luck man. G


----------



## deknow

I think it's just the universe telling you to invest in that engine that runs on water.


----------



## jim lyon

sqkcrk said:


> Water in fuel again. Not as much as before. Some little globules of water in the bottom of the bucket. The shop is going to drain the tank of fuel and put some clean fuel in it again. We had a real down pour yesterday. But no one seems to know how water can begetting in the tank.
> 
> Before I went to get fuel, which is when the display came on, I fed the rest of the syrup to the two yds of doubles. Then the plan was to get headed north. Hope to stop in VA for the weekend for Alexis' 2nd birthday party. We'll see.


Ask them if it's possible to pressure test it for leaks. The fill pipe connections would be a particular area of concern.


----------



## virginiawolf

I looked up " How does a truck get water in the fuel? " I found this link. It is apparently a big challenge to combat.

http://www.cleanfuelguys.com/heat.html


http://community.fmca.com/topic/2985-water-in-diesel-fuel/


----------



## sqkcrk

"Water can cause injector nozzle and pump corrosion, " Isn't it strange how my WIF problems occurred after needing a new fuel pump? Could there be a connection there? If so, why didn't the detector detect the water before causing the pump to break down? So maybe there is no connection.


----------



## virginiawolf

I don't know much about this, that is why I looked it up. I don't have much of a reference point. I've been driving a car for over 20 years and have had many problems but I never had water in the fuel. I figured maybe it's different with trucks. 

This article mentioned air being sucked in along with the gas. 

http://community.fmca.com/topic/2985-water-in-diesel-fuel/

It's the internet... I don't know..... Just trying to help.


----------



## sqkcrk

Thanks, Ginia.


----------



## Bdfarmer555

All my tractors, diesel power units, and '99 power stroke have the sensors located in the bottom of the filter. Between the low pressure transfer pump and the high pressure injector pump or injectors.
So the low pressure transfer pump, usually located on the frame or in the tank on a truck, is exposed to dirt and water before it is filtered.


----------



## Roland

I like Mr. Lyon's idea.

Where is the sending unit for the tank attached? On the top? That might be another place to check.

Crazy Roland


----------



## Brian Suchan

The sending unit should be on the first fuel filter along the frame rail. 6m allen key is what fits in water drain out plug. Normally on 6.0 when the light comes on, drain the water and all is good.


----------



## sqkcrk

That's what they showed me, Brian. And I guess that's what they did this last time. Drained fuel until they didn't see any water in evidence. The previous time, before they drained all of the fuel from the tanks, dropped them, cleaned them and reinstalled them, water was pretty much in suspension in the fuel.

I'm going to solve this problem, for me, by buying a new truck.


----------



## jim lyon

sqkcrk said:


> That's what they showed me, Brian. And I guess that's what they did this last time. Drained fuel until they didn't see any water in evidence. The previous time, before they drained all of the fuel from the tanks, dropped them, cleaned them and reinstalled them, water was pretty much in suspension in the fuel.
> 
> I'm going to solve this problem, for me, by buying a new truck.


Gasoline or deisel powered?


----------



## sqkcrk

Diesel. I considered the gas model and decided against it. I don't recall all the reasons.


----------



## hpm08161947

When are you heading back North? Wanna get lunch at Dona Marie? Got some Red Grape Wine Vinegar for you.


----------



## sqkcrk

Sorry, Herb, save it for the next trip. I thought about stopping by, but figured you all would want me to spend the night and I really wanted to get up to Wmsbg, VA for a day at my old stomping grounds and then to Ft Belvoir for a grandchild's birthday party before going home.

Please save it for me. The vinegar and the suit which Craig has. Thanks.


----------



## hpm08161947

No problem - will do. Guess you will be driving a new truck - next time.


----------



## Brian Suchan

You should seriously consider goin with new gasser. Much cheaper to buy and maintain. You been around the new powerstrokes?


----------



## Barry

Ford again? If so, V10 would serve you well.


----------



## Barry

So Mark, if you swing by here, I can get you a sample of Herb's wine vinegar. More than one place to get it!


----------



## jim lyon

Mark, as you are driving back observe the gas/diesel price differential and remember the unloaded mileage and power will probably be pretty similar regardless of power train (perhaps a slight mpg advantage for the diesel). The warranty is typically the same for each. Advantage gas for cold weather startup and operation. The big difference is you would be spending in the neighborhood of an extra 8 to 9 grand for better loaded mileage and for the big torque number that diesel gives you which is really nice when you are loaded and pulling a trailer. Im no expert on the new efi gas engines but I would still be pretty confident that if you end up with water in your tank its going to be a lot higher risk of a high dollar fix in a diesel. Warranty goes out the window when they find contaminated fuel.


----------



## sqkcrk

Thanks for all the advice on a new vehicle. But it's a little too late being as I have already ordered it and it is being built. Due date of Dec. 21.

I went through all of this in another Thread and on Facebook, with advice from friends and mechanics that know what my driving is like and all other such stuff. So, thanks, but I am locked into a new Ford F-450 Superduty Diesel truck.


----------



## Roland

I hope Ol' Saint Nick has a stocking big enough for your new truck. Good luck.

Crazy Roland


----------



## Brian Suchan

You'll like it, i got a 13 this spring off the salvage sale. Had few problems early on with exaust sensors. Its not a bee truck. I stick with old junk for bee trucks


----------



## virginiawolf

A new truck due in 4 days sounds awesome. Congratulations! I hope that you will share a picture of it


----------



## Adrian Quiney WI

Mark, just don't try to sell the old one on Beesource.


----------



## sqkcrk

It's already promised. Though I don't know if I'm really doing my friend a favor or not. Maybe I should just give it to him.

I have been offered a good chunk of money for it. To my surprise.


----------



## biggraham610

You in Virginia now Mark? Glad you are able to take on the investment in a new truck. Good for you. Enjoy it. You deserve a reliable tool to get your work done. G


----------



## deknow

...but he has a reliable tool....not to get the work done, but at least to collect moisture. It's not a bee truck....it's a dehumidifier for the environment!


----------



## biggraham610

You are a satist deknow.............:no:


----------



## jim lyon

Congrats Mark. It's going to make your beekeeping life easier. It will also look good in section 179.


----------



## sqkcrk

Section 179?


----------



## Adrian Quiney WI

I am not an accountant. A quick google search shows that it is something to do with depreciation which allows businesses to take high depreciation allowances to offset taxation.
http://www.crestcapital.com/tax_deduction_calculator


----------



## sqkcrk

I wondered about that.


----------



## hpm08161947

sqkcrk said:


> Section 179?


I am sure your tax person knows about this section. Or at least they better.


----------



## jim lyon

Adrian Quiney WI said:


> I am not an accountant. A quick google search shows that it is something to do with depreciation which allows businesses to take high depreciation allowances to offset taxation.
> http://www.crestcapital.com/tax_deduction_calculator


Not higher depreciation, but accelerated depreciation.......like one year if you wish.


----------



## Adrian Quiney WI

I assume it is intended to encourage a business to buy large ticket items to stimulate the economy? If a commercial was unaware of this it may make sense to call an accountant now as there are less than 2 weeks left in 2015 to take advantage of it for this year.


----------



## jim lyon

I don't claim to be a tax expert but my understanding is that the transaction needs to be made and the equipment "put in service" during the fiscal year. Mark should qualify I would think. Worse case is you get the deduction the next fiscal year.


----------



## snl

sqkcrk said:


> Section 179?


Yup, as long as it is placed in service prior to the end of the year!


----------



## red

If you are planning on using section 179 this year you better check on it . As of a week ago congress hasn't renewed it yet.


----------



## Michael Palmer

jim lyon said:


> Not higher depreciation, but accelerated depreciation.......like one year if you wish.


Can't you take a 179 expense on the truck and then depreciate it over 7 years?


----------



## jim lyon

Michael Palmer said:


> Can't you take a 179 expense on the truck and then depreciate it over 7 years?


We need a tax expert to speak up. I'm going to guess that you could if it seemed more beneficial to your circumstances.


----------



## jim lyon

red said:


> If you are planning on using section 179 this year you better check on it . As of a week ago congress hasn't renewed it yet.


http://www.section179.org/section_179_deduction.html
It appears it's still in effect but has been pared down somewhat from previous years.


----------



## sqkcrk

I'm going to have a bed built for the truck and am wondering if I can take that as an expense too or if that has to be considered part of the whole valuation of the truck for which I claim a mileage expense each year.


----------



## jim lyon

It's part of the truck but you might have to take that in the next fiscal year.


----------



## snl

Mark,
There are two ways of deducting vehicle business expenses. One is mileage, the other is actual expenses (including depreciation). I would go with actual expenses as this truck is only used in your business. The bed is part of the cost of the vehicle and you could use section 179 to write it off. From what I understand the budget act just passed extends section 179 depreciation.

As Jim said, unless you put your new "bed" in service prior to the end of the year, that write-off won'f occur until 2016. Oh, and make sure you use the truck for something business related prior to year-end. The key is when it is "placed in service."

Talk to you accountant..........not BeeSource


----------



## snl

Michael Palmer said:


> Can't you take a 179 expense on the truck and then depreciate it over 7 years?


Not if the 179 expense is the full cost of the vehicle......(Can't depreciate it twice as section 179 is in essence, accelerated depreciation)


----------



## Barry

I've done both. Most trucks I've depreciated over a 5 year time. Once, I took the full deprecation in one year. Talk to your accountant to determine which is best for you in your current tax liability.


----------



## Barry

Mark, are you a sole proprietor or have you incorporated?


----------



## sqkcrk

Sole proprietor. My Accountant advised against incorporation considering my personal/business circumstances.


----------



## biggraham610

LLC?


----------



## snl

LLC or Sole Proprietorship it all goes back to your personal tax return..........Talk to your accountant.......my guess is that he'll tell you to take the 179.......


----------



## sqkcrk

biggraham610 said:


> LLC?


No


----------



## biggraham610

LLC is a sole proprietor with some protections. Don't know if it would be useful for you are not, but may be worth looking into. G


----------



## hpm08161947

Mark's new truck.


----------



## sqkcrk

Thanks Herb.


----------



## jim lyon

Nice, now throw something bee related on the back, drive her around the block and you just put her in service.


----------



## clyderoad

real nice. good luck with her.

what's up with the old truck? the one with the custom paint job and lettering? I like that one too!


----------



## sqkcrk

What? U mean my van?


----------



## clyderoad

I guess maybe it is a van. Saw a picture once.
Older model right? yellowish?


----------



## sqkcrk

No, not really. Must be someone else.


----------



## wildbranch2007

sqkcrk said:


> No, not really. Must be someone else.


I think he talking about your white ford delivery van.


----------



## sqkcrk

Could be.


----------



## virginiawolf

This has been fun to read. Thank you for sharing your trip.
Did you make it to Ft Belvoir for the birthday party?

https://www.google.com/maps/place/F...1s0x89b7ac91944fff4d:0x99dfcbd5f3fed128?hl=en


----------



## sqkcrk

Yes, I did.


----------



## virginiawolf

Glad to hear it. I have been imagining you driving down the road since this thread started. I guess that you are back in New York now. 

That looks like a nice river that runs through your area that is coming down from Canada.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/B...1s0x4ccc6e875c392d01:0x573eb4030e151737?hl=en


----------



## sqkcrk

If you mean the St Regis, she runs from the swamps and creeks north into the St Lawrence River at Akwesasne, the Mohawk Reservation.

If you zoom in closer and move the map east you will find Squeak Brook. Once you find Squeak Brook, zoom in some more, and where it crosses Hurley Road that is our property. This map must have been photographed a year and a half ago. The new back porch can be seen, but the popup beside Barbara's car isn't there. But it must have been in April or maybe October, because there are no leaves on the trees and the stacks of supers are there along the property line.


----------



## virginiawolf

Cool Yes, Thanks for explaining. I can see that the river widens as it gets closer to Akwesasne. 
I can see on the map where it says Brasher Falls there is some white water. Is that the falls that Brasher Falls is named after? They are part of
the St. Regis? Main St. Goes right over them.

I found Vance Savages Garage and Ricks Auto up Vice Road. 

It looks pretty up in Brasher Falls


----------



## sqkcrk

My place is on Hurley Road, which is west of Brasher Falls. Pan west from Brasher Falls until you get to Brasher Falls-Winthrop and you will see Rt 420. Go north on 420 until you come to the first cross road. That's Mahoney Road. Go west on Mahoney 1/2 mile, then turn south onto Hurley Road and go 1/2 mile and you will be at my house.


----------



## virginiawolf

I may have found some bee boxes just after Squeak Brook on the edge of a field. I was also looking for some Pine Trees that I remember that you said that you planted.

Wait a minute. There is a truck pulling onto Hurley Road. Is that you? It must be In action.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir//37...64121b28f!2m2!1d-74.830466!2d44.8156539?hl=en


----------



## sqkcrk

No, were are up the road at 437 Hurley Road.


----------



## virginiawolf

It looks pretty there. You have space and the Squeak Brook.


----------



## virginiawolf

Hi Mark, I hope that you had a nice Christmas. Are you on a break now until you go back to get the bees? What happens next? Is your new truck all set up for moving bees?


----------



## sqkcrk

Yeah, break, I guess. Packing some honey. Making some deliveries. Waxing plastic frames and putting them in nuc boxes for use in SC in a couple month. Have 400 shallow supers need painting.

Making arrangements to have the new bed built. Want to get that started soon.


----------



## jim lyon

sqkcrk said:


> Making arrangements to have the new bed built. Want to get that started soon.


Spend some time with them going over in detail exactly what you want. Draw it out, give them photos, even bring in a bee pallet or 2 so they can see what you will be hauling. Pretty much everytime I've had this done there has still been some sort of screwup that I've had to deal with.


----------



## sqkcrk

Screw ups expected.


----------



## snl

sqkcrk said:


> Making arrangements to have the new bed built. Want to get that started soon.


Mark, how long will the build take?


----------



## sqkcrk

I don't know. The shop is a professional heavy truck garage with a fabrication shop. So once they have time to dedicate to it I would think a week would do it. But I don't have anything upon which to base that thought. I didn't ask that question. I'm hoping to not have to drive the old truck south again.


----------



## virginiawolf

Hi Mark, Thanks for explaining what you are up to. It sounds like you get to prepare for upcoming work at all times.

I'll have to look at some videos again of people loading and unloading bees to see what the truck beds look like. I hadn't noticed before that they were customized. Hopefully the fabrication shop will do their best to make the bed to your liking. It sounds like providing as much detail for what you want like Jim said would be a good plan. Is the old truck set up as a good example to go by?

When you paint 400 boxes what is your method of applying the paint?

I found this video of bees being unloaded. 

https://youtu.be/vcp4X5n_yhY

And this one as well. I can see the bees flying in this one.

https://youtu.be/fH0W24jHtsY

Wow!!!!


----------



## Rader Sidetrack

For photos of a bee-truck bed posted by _Jim Lyon_, see post #22 of this thread: http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?305189-Flatbed-Build-Ideas/page2

For more bee-truck photos previously posted on Beesource, copy-n-paste the search phrase below into a Google Search box:
truck bed site:beesource.com​
Once the search returns results, click on the "_Images_" tab _near_ the top of the page. Note: this search is specifically limited to just photos on Beesource by the "site:" keyword.


----------



## virginiawolf

Thank You Graham, I looked around at some of the excellent photos of trucks with bees on them.
I noticed a good bit of discussion about the methods of strapping the hives down. 
I observed that on the sides of the truck beds there are metal sections that look like they are made for the trucker to feed the straps through.
I can see now that based on quantity of bees and the arrangement of the pallets the Trucker would want the bed designed so that the pallets
of bees that are arranged will correlate to the sections on the edges that receive the straps. I can see why the bed will play a critical role in the loading and unloading and strapping work. This line of work impresses me. It looks difficult and challenging but also exciting. If I ever lose my job I may have to see about going on the road with some local bee truckers that I know. I don't think that they would pay me much to start but it would be an adventure and get me in shape. I think that I would enjoy it.
I got this picture from the other thread.


----------



## biggraham610

It may be interesting to try VW. I hope you don't lose your job though. I'm pretty sure its a pretty tough slog. One of these days I'm going to ride down and help Mark just for the experience if he will have me. Pretty sure he will. G


----------



## virginiawolf

I don't plan on losing my job but sometimes I wonder about an alternate career choice maybe down the road. I have considered several things but something beekeeping related would appeal to me. I have read before on the subject and ideally I would need to be able to operate the loader and get a license to the drive the trucks. I am a long way off. The guys that I know were looking for part timers a few summers ago and they knew me so the offer was out there. I think that they load and off load by hand a good bit. They had a custom 2 man lifter and were able to move hives in a snap. It grabbed the hive handles and each guy grabbed a side. I'm comfortable with bees so doing things like looking through hives and feeding bees and things like that are things that I think that I could be a good worker at. To do it on a mass scale would be new to me. Seeing these pictures has been inspirational. I take my hat off to these guys.

It would be cool if you could go with Mark in the spring


----------



## jean-marc

VirginiaWolf:

May I suggest that you show up in shape and the likelyhood of you getting and keeping the job increases dramatically. All the best with your current job.

Jean-Marc


----------



## virginiawolf

Thanks for the tip Jean-Marc. I figured as much. I'm sure that this line of work would show the weak links quickly. I'm a realist. I have friends that work construction and they are much bigger than I am. I'd imagine that physical strength and size could be key for this if not imperative. 
All the best to you at your current job as well.

Happy New Year!!!


----------



## snl

So Mark,
Where are you in having the truck bed built? When are you heading back to SC?


----------



## sqkcrk

The bed is being built in a shop near here.

I am hoping to head south Feb 9.


----------



## snl

I'm guessing your bed w/b finished be then and you'll be bringing the new truck?


----------



## sqkcrk

Not going south without it.


----------



## biggraham610

Hows the Truck coming Mark?


----------



## sqkcrk

When I saw it Friday the deck was ready to be painted. I'm not sure if the deck wood has been milled yet. I want to go south around the 9th. So if the ash isn't milled yet we might have to use something else temporarily. The tool boxes are huge. I didn't expect them to be that large. Ten inches off the ground. 

I still have to get numbers and business name on the side of the truck. and get the license and registration straightened out.

Soon, I hope.


----------



## biggraham610

Sounds like its coming along. Bees bringing in olive drab pollen here and dragging out the deceased.


----------



## sqkcrk

Door decals applied last Friday. You can see them on my Facebook Page.


----------



## biggraham610

That's great. You sound like you are on schedule. I don't believe in FB. Maybe you could put an image on here. Glad its coming together Mark. G


----------



## sqkcrk

Would if I could.


----------



## hpm08161947

Here ya go G


----------



## biggraham610

That is awesome. I love that design. Well done Mark. And Thanks for posting Herb. G


----------



## jean-marc

For what it is worth I also like the design. There seems to be a touch of class to it Mark. May it bring you many wealthy customers with an unsatiable sweet tooth.

Jean-Marc


----------



## sqkcrk

Thanks, guys. That's my original label design from back in 1989 when we first moved to Squeak Creek. Something I sketched and someone else, whose name I don't recall, cleaned up and made look nicer.


----------



## virginiawolf

I like the design as well Mark. It looks fantastic!! Congratulations!!! Nicely done!!!


----------



## sqkcrk

Wait til you all see the headboard. It's not as snazzy as the doors, but it's neat.


----------



## hpm08161947

Mark's new Truck. That is a Serious head board. Sweet!


----------



## Rader Sidetrack

Does the "Honey" on the headache rack get lit up at night?


----------



## sqkcrk

Only by on coming traffic, Graham.


----------



## wildbranch2007

nice truck mark:thumbsup:


----------



## biggraham610

That's Great Mark. Nice looking ride. I suspect you are on schedule for your departure target date of the 9th. Safe Travels. G


----------



## biggraham610

Guess you will be hitting the road tomorrow Mark. Good Luck and safe travels. Enjoy the new reliable ride. Supposed to get a dusting to a couple inches tonight, not sure what route you take but it will likely be gone before you make it to these parts anyway. G


----------



## sqkcrk

Mother Nature always has plans that don't include what I want to do. So, considering the rain and the cool temps in SC I will be staying home a while longer. Maybe until March 1st.


----------



## biggraham610

Mother Nature is a fickle friend. I am certain you can find some prep work to keep you busy a couple more weeks. Be here before you know it. I was lucky enough to recover a giant load of 1x10s. I wont be buying any boxes in the immediate future that's for sure. Same thing happened this time last year. Lucky I guess. Got a few staples in it, but it is new lumber used to crate large equipment. I expect i retrieved 400 running foot. G


----------



## cg3

Good call. I'm sure glad I'm not driving through the WV mountains today.


----------



## hpm08161947

sqkcrk said:


> Mother Nature always has plans that don't include what I want to do. So, considering the rain and the cool temps in SC I will be staying home a while longer. Maybe until March 1st.


Our winter has not started yet, maybe this weekend. Bees have been flying all year. Mine have eaten a lot of their stores. I put on more patties last week. It has rained a large amount so far this month, pretty swamp like. Probably similar to "Mud Times" up your way.


----------



## snl

sqkcrk said:


> Mother Nature always has plans that don't include what I want to do. So, considering the rain and the cool temps in SC I will be staying home a while longer. Maybe until March 1st.


Good call! Many fields here are underwater or are extremely soggy.


----------



## Brian Suchan

Why so tall with the headache rack


----------



## sqkcrk

So I can stack three pallets of story and a half hives on top of each other and not have any chance of anything sliding forward across the hood of my truck.


----------



## Brian Suchan

How long on the bed 14ft?


----------



## sqkcrk

15


----------



## Brian Suchan

F450 or 550? 5 rows of pallets?


----------



## sqkcrk

450 and yes, 5 rows. 6.7L Diesel. Automatic.


----------



## Brian Suchan

120 hives with a loader? You'll be breakin her in right on the maiden voyage! The 6.7 is awesome but can be a pita, stupid exhaust sensors.


----------



## biggraham610

DON'T SAY THAT BRIAN!! :shhhh:

Better check up on those sensors Mark......:scratch:


----------



## wildbranch2007

biggraham610 said:


> DON'T SAY THAT BRIAN!! :shhhh:
> 
> Better check up on those sensors Mark......:scratch:


now that Mark is used to his water in fuel light coming on, changing out a few sensors should be a breeze.k:


----------



## sqkcrk

Brian Suchan said:


> 120 hives with a loader? You'll be breakin her in right on the maiden voyage! The 6.7 is awesome but can be a pita, stupid exhaust sensors.


I'm not hauling a load like that when I go south. My hives are already down there. I did haul a load like that last Spring, from SC to NC. And when I haul empty supers stacked on warehouse pallets this head board will keep them off of my hood too.


----------



## sqkcrk

Looks like March 1st is the day I head south. Should arrive Wednesday afternoon, if things go well.


----------



## Bkwoodsbees

Safe travels . Things have changed here in SC. With all the rain we had I am finally drying up.a bit. Having a heck of Maple flow. Had to put supers on with foundation to give them wax making nurses some thing to do. They are drawing them out pretty good. Capped drone cells all over outside frames. Your hives should be in real good shape. Good luck


----------



## sqkcrk

Thanks.


----------



## biggraham610

Safe travels Mark. G


----------



## wildbranch2007

I hung around on 81 south, just to see the new larger than life headboard go by, but finally decided to go do something constructive. :lpf:


----------



## hpm08161947

wildbranch2007 said:


> I hung around on 81 south, just to see the new larger than life headboard go by, but finally decided to go do something constructive. :lpf:


Yea... I wanta see that headboard too. Bet it will turn some heads.


----------



## sqkcrk

Apparently some people can't transpose well. I have seen passengers in cars that passed me turn around to look at the headboard from the front. It is attractive.


----------



## wildbranch2007

sqkcrk said:


> Apparently some people can't transpose well. I have seen passengers in cars that passed me turn around to look at the headboard from the front. It is attractive.


If you are interested I will find and donate some led lights like the big trucks have if you spell out bee's on it.:thumbsup:


----------



## biggraham610

How bout ya Mark, make it safe?


----------



## sqkcrk

eyah


----------



## biggraham610

sqkcrk said:


> eyah


:thumbsup:


----------



## Scpossum

sqkcrk said:


> eyah


I thought I saw a glow in the sky today. 

Thought I would pass this on to you since you are in-state now: 
State Assoc Spring Meeting
Date: Mar 5, 2016 7:00 AM - 4:30 PM
Location: Palmetto GBA Building, 17 Technology Circle, Columbia, SC 29203


----------



## sqkcrk

Thanks. I went to the website announcement and didn't see who was speaking. I'll be working bees that day.


----------



## sqkcrk

Alright, been here two days and this is what I am seeing in some of my hives so far. I have only been into one yard so far, the yard with the story and a half hives in them. The hives that were a story and a half when I brought them down last November. I haven't seen these hives since then. 

Last November, after unloading the semi and spreading hives to two other yards I went through the hives to see whether they were alive or not and to feed syrup to those that were alive. At that time I put the empty supers on the strong hives, giving them room to grow, if they needed to, and to in part protect those boxes by keeping bees in them. So many of these hives that were a deep and a medium are now taller. Some with another deep on them and others with another medium on them. 

So what I am doing is going through the story and a halfs and putting the deep on top, if it isn't already, so the feeders are easier to get to as well as to rotate supers to give the queen room to lay in. And with the taller hives I am seeing if there are any empty boxes I can get out of those hives while also rotating the brood boxes. 

I want to take story and a half hives to the blueberries, starting this coming Wednesday. So that is what I am concentrating on at this time. I'll probably be taking some two story hives to, since I don't have 75 pallets of story and a halfs.

What am I seeing in the hives, you may ask. Well, out of all of the hives in this yard, The Pines Yd, I have only found three deadouts. There have been a couple live colonies that are only a couple of frames of brood and bees and one colony which was all in the medium super. The rest of the hives have as many as 8 frames of brood and some have more and some have less, but all of those have lots of adult bees in them. So mostly, so far, I am pleased with my bees.

I have seen some queen cups, swarm cells, and a couple times have found fully formed and occupied queen cells which broke apart when I took the boxes apart to rotate them. After I get completely through the Pines Yd the first time I will be going back through it again and equalizing brood between hives and pulling brood and bees and honey into nuc boxes above excluders for splits. If I don't do it between now and when I take the bees to blueberries I will have to do that while they are in the blueberries. Or else there will be swarming. I could use 300 medium supers. That would help remove some of the swarm pressure. Something to keep in mind for next year.

Everything is early this year. Here anyway. Maybe not where you are. Lynn Barton put on his first graft of queen cells on March 1st. Blueberries usually come in bloom mid March. March 15 to 20 has been my limited experience so far. March 9 is going to sway the average more towards the early half of the month.

Mornings have been cool, so most of my bee work waits until late morning before I start tearing hives apart. Highs haven't been in the 60s yet. But this coming week look like the highs will be in the 70s. I have seen new honey and white wax in some hives. So I know it has been warm enough for bees to fly and there has been some nectar flow. Maples probably. So that's good.

But there isn't all that much for bees to find as far as nectar is concerned when they are in the blueberries. So I will have to feed syrup once or twice to keep them up to weight. I'll be giving them a protein patty or two too. Since blueberry pollen isn't very nutritious. And I am going to put a Terra Patty on each hive that goes to the blueberries to try to address the EFB that I find after blueberries more often than I like.

Well, that's all for now. More later. The new truck is running well. Nice having something dependable and quieter.


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## deknow

Mark, a few questions come to mind reading your report.

Can you be more specific about adding supers, feeding, Terra patties?

My questions revolve around adding supers and feding at the same time, and what are you using for a Terra pattie? I thought Terra patties were put?


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## sqkcrk

The supers would be added to give the queen more room to lay. Of course nectar or syrup could end up being stored in those boxes as well, but these supers would not be extracted from.

Mann Lake's Terra Patties. After blueberries, if anything is left I'll scrape it off and toss it. If I still see EFB I won't bother next year. I don't know why, other than stress from poor quality pollen, EFB shows up in my hives after blueberries. Before I started going to blueberries I never had any EFB in my hives.


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## beeware10

mark years ago norm sharp used to say he had a lot of efb when he went to new England for blueberry pollination. seems to be expected but I don't know why.


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## sqkcrk

Not a real productive day. Only got brood from 16 hives drawn above excluders which, once I have those boxes taken off and away to another yard, makes 16 more blueberry hives. Saw some SHBs walking around, squashed them with the hive tool. So far I have seen no mites in any of the broken brood from between supers or frames, but did see a mite on a bee once. I guess I have to get a jar and some alcohol or starting fluid from somewhere and do some checking. Not a high priority at this time.

Dean, to further address your question about feeding and supering. I'd be trying to cover two potential problems problems, starvation and swarming. If I don't feed the bees while they are in the blueberries they face a good chance of starving. I tried that one year and didn't like the results. So it's better to have them on the fat side. And some of those that are already on the fat side, which I will also feed, may swarm during the six weeks in the blueberries. I probably could spend more time going through each and every hive moving frames of honey here and frames of brood there and pulling frames of brood and honey for nucs. But right now my focus is on getting the 300 hives as ready as they need to be to go. That's my line of thinking.


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## sqkcrk

beeware10 said:


> mark years ago norm sharp used to say he had a lot of efb when he went to new England for blueberry pollination. seems to be expected but I don't know why.


Did I tell you that Buster Smith died? You knew him, didn't you? When are you coming down?


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## beeware10

yes I worked with buster. like you we are in the process of getting a newer truck. (not new) looks like the end of the month. we put an extra super on when we brought the bees down in case we got there late. the transmission went out in fredricksburg va so it was a stressful trip.


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## hpm08161947

I wonder what is missing in the blueberry pollen to make them so vulnerable to the EFB bacterium?  I just know that there is a lot of it around this whole area.... maybe just lousy pollen in general


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## sqkcrk

It may not actually be EFB. It might just be something that looks like EFB. I never got any analysed.


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## hpm08161947

sqkcrk said:


> It may not actually be EFB. It might just be something that looks like EFB. I never got any analysed.


I have been told... by someone??, who seems like they might know - to sprinkle them with oxytet before they go in the Blueberries and to sprinkle them when they come out.... who knows.

Once I did take several that I thought were afflicted with EFB and sprinkled them with Oxytet and they did respond rapidly, but it wasn't long before the crap came back.... alas.


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## sqkcrk

Monday, 3-7-16, took 16 queenless splits from Pines Yard to Hardee Yard.
Raised 27 boxes of brood above excluders in Pines Yd.

Tuesday, 3-8-16
Moved 27 boxes of brood from Pines to Hardee.
Raised brood above excluders on 28 hives in Pines.
Just before dark I stacked pallets two high for loading in the morning to take them to Blueberries in NC.

Wednesday, 3-9-16
6:00 AM 45 degrees, still mostly dark. Sky lightening in the East. Loaded 26 pallets of hives to go to Lake Creek Farm in NC. Departed 7:00 AM, Arrived Lake Creek Farm at 9:00 AM. Unloaded and left about an hour later. Met Herb for Tacos at La Tienda Dona Maria.


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## snl

Mark,
Did Lynn have QC for you queenless nucs?


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## sqkcrk

No. No cells until tomorrow. I guess some of them will be raising their own.


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## snl

That's what I thought. See you there.. Helping him stock...


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## biggraham610

Sounds like you are making good progress Mark. :thumbsup: Good luck with continued success. G


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## biggraham610

Mark when is swarm season down there begin? I assume you are ahead of us.


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## sqkcrk

Nectar was shaking out yesterday and if it keeps up swarm season would be right now, I guess. I haven't seen any queen cells yet.


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## sqkcrk

3-10-16
moved 24 Qless splits from Pines to Hardee Yd

Have 42 pallets of 1- 1/2s in Pines, need 8 pallets of Doubles
Moved 8 pallets of Dbls back to Pines Yd
Need Q cells for 68 splits.
Got cells from Lynn Barton, installed 42 cells. All he had to spare.
More cells available Saturday. Cells installed today should emerge Saturday.


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## sqkcrk

Took another 104 hives to the blueberries.
Worked on some of my triples.


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## biggraham610

Overall were you happy with what you found upon arrival Mark. Strong/Weak Survival/Deadout, everything about like you usually see? Or do you have significant variables year to year. How long will you be staying down there?


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## sqkcrk

Nectar has been coming in well the last couple days. Checked splits that I had installed queen cells in a while back to see if queens were laying yet. Not finding eggs yet, so I got some more cells and recelled the splits again. My supplier had cells he was going to trash, so they didn't cost me anything. Queens were emerging from them in the incubator.

I have been spending some time each day scrapping frames and supers and getting rid of bad and broken combs and rotten boxes, while getting deeps ready to put on splits.

So when I installed a second deep on queen right splits today I also robbed two to four frames of brood and honey from strong hives to add to the splits and to weaken strong hives, in hopes of avoiding swarming.

Things are looking good here in SC. I need to get up to NC next week. And may need to run home for more equipment.


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## biggraham610

:thumbsup: Sounds good Mark. Good for you. G


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