# Squirrels, Bees, and an Oak Tree...Thoughts?



## bibbster (Jun 10, 2016)

So I got a call today about some bees in a tree. And in that tree is a squirrel nesting box. And in that nesting box...the bees. They were clustered on both sides as pictured below and flying in and out at a good rate. It's hot here today, 90 without the humidity, so I imagine they were cooling down. The nesting box is about 15-20 feet off of the ground. It's supposedly attached with lag bolts but I couldn't see them. There is some sort of fastener at the bottom center but it's pretty rusted. Anyway, any thoughts on getting them down? The owner said I could just remove the box and take the whole thing home, however I am sure it won't be that simple. I expect to get stung but I don't expect to fall off of a ladder.

I was thinking about just dismantling the box on the tree but that may be more work than is necessary. The nest box measures about 12"x12"x24" and I'm sure it is pretty heavy, especially full of bees, comb, etc.

So, what would you do to get these bees back to your apiary?



















And for good measure...a video.


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## Scott Gough (Dec 10, 2015)

I have one swarm trap location that is about 15' in a tree. I keep putting it back there because I have caught 5 swarms there. The second swarm I caught there was quite a surprise. It was extremely heavy for being up on a ladder that high. So please proceed with caution in getting them down. If they have been there more than a few weeks the box is most likely full of comb, brood and honey. Thus it will be heavy. 

If is was me I would not mess with it because it will end up being a cut out no matter how you get the box down. Cut outs are just not worth the bees for me. If you really want to give it a go I would recommend doing all you can to get the box down in one piece so you can do the cut out on the ground or at your apiary. Maybe a sawzall would work to cut it loose from the tree. Attach a rope around the box and then cut it loose. 

Good luck and stay safe no matter what!


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## cervus (May 8, 2016)

The lag bolts should be on the inside. Or on the longer piece that is against the tree. One of the side panels, or the top, should swivel for cleaning out old nest material as needed. Just put ur gloves on and use a ratchet. I would take the whole box, intact, lowering it with a rope. Cut a hole in top and place it under a proper box with frames.


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## Bee Havin (Mar 1, 2017)

Ditto on the sawzall, that was my thought also. Even if you do get access to the bolts they will most likely would have grown into the tree making it even more of a problem, if not impossible under the circumstances. It doesn't take but a couple of days for a swarm to build a lot of comb. With a longer blade held next to the box at worst, you will only scrape the bark. I dought there is a clean out on this, as most ppl don't think about it or don't care. (let the squirrels clean it) Let us know how it all turns out. 
Good luck!


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## bibbster (Jun 10, 2016)

Thanks for all the suggestions and thoughts so far, I appreciate it.

I think I have the mechanics worked out now on getting it down, but now I'm concerned about getting as many bees as possible. Not knowing how much of that box is full of squirrel nest, I don't want to decrease the numbers any more than necessary. On the other hand, I don't want to over complicate things.

So knowing that during the heat of the day (and likely the night) hundreds of bees will be on the outside, any thoughts on getting as many bees as possible?


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## Scott Gough (Dec 10, 2015)

Take the box down at night. Use a spray bottle on mist to coax the bees inside then seal the entrance(s). If you are going to be transporting them very far you will need to give them some sort of ventilation like a screen over the entrance. 

Bees are attracted to a flash light at night. Some say to use a red filter on the light and the bees are not attracted to it but I have never used one.


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## bibbster (Jun 10, 2016)

Scott,

Thanks for your input. I'll consider a night time removal, though being on a ladder 20' in the air in the dark trying to wrangle bees seems a bit, well, crazy. lol Thanks for the reminder on the screen for ventilation. I didn't have that on my list.


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## Scott Gough (Dec 10, 2015)

Your are welcome. If the box has more than one entrance hole you might duct tape some holes during the day and then screen the main entrance if you remove them at night. Obviously duct tape does not work if you mist the bees to get them in the box. I learned that he hard way.


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## bibbster (Jun 10, 2016)

Scott, what are you doing tomorrow night? lol


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## Scott Gough (Dec 10, 2015)

Celebrating a son's birthday. If I was near Tennessee I would like to see you get this down. I really do not like the one trap that I have up that high but it is my most successful so I keep putting it back. Just be careful and let us know how it turns out. Good luck.


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## TexasFreedom (Feb 25, 2016)

Bibbster,

Definitely have an experienced BK with you. "Learning" at ground level has enough problems. Learning at 20' up can lead to a fall (you or the colony). Don't worry about falling, it's the landing that hurts most. But when you have one then the other follows!

I also vote for bringing down the whole box and transferring into your box at ground level. Sawzall also sounds like a good idea. I'd not put a strap around it as that'll just press the box against the tree making the bolt cutting all the more difficult. Rather, if you can, go above the box & put a couple of long screws into the tree, with straps/cable secured to the box from those cables. That will let the box 'swing' out from the tree, or maybe you can you a pry bar to give you the gap behind the box to cut the lug bolts?

If you are worried about the weight, instead of putting just screws into the tree above, secure a pulley above the box. Secure the rope from the pulley well around the box (it can fall apart, so go all around the box with it. Then when you've cut the lag bolts, just use the pulley to easily lower the whole box. Note that you may need to have the pulley go out a foot or two from the tree so that it more easily lowers down (use a couple of 2x4's).

Do it in daylight. Don't worry about losing 5,000 bees who are out in the fields. It's far easier to do in daylight. The vibration of the sawzall will tick all of them off, and the less bees at home the better. You can leave the box lowered down & do the full removal at night if you really want to get every bee. They'll recover in just weeks if you can save most of the brood & give them some sugar water.

As with any cutout, plan everything in advance. Have help which will make it go 3 times faster. Don't overheat. Work slow but with purpose and steady. Communicate. And 20' up wouldn't hurt to have a prayer first (actually it always is a good idea).


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## MadAnt (Jul 23, 2016)

I would check, if there is any washers under the heads of screws/bolts.
If none, secure yourself, secure the box, use crawbar to get it off the tree.
And no way, that i would do this in the darkness. Daytime only.
Maybe box just hanged on some sort of hook or there are some screws/bolts only at the top of the box.


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

Screen the entrance shut at night and remove the next morning. Lag bolts are hardened bolts, but may be softer than a sawzall blade. 
Simply secure rope around the box near the top and run the rope over the branch above to the trunk below. Saw off the bolts and lower the box safely from the ground. Perform a cutout when you get the box home. Be ready for some pissy bees though. Suit up.


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## JTGaraas (Jun 7, 2014)

I had not read this thread until today, but feel compelled to comment. Ladders at that height are not safe, and when you add weight, shifting weight when lag bolt failure occurs unexpectedly, live bees, old wood of dubious integrity, and a couple of other things that will surely exist -- Did the health insurance premium letter get delivered? I suggest renting a cherry picker. One (1) day rental rate is $225 on one (1) website in my area -- whole lot safer so you will enjoy the bees! While painting, I fell when my feet were 20-22 feet; I was not harmed, but it seemingly took a minute to reach the ground while I moved my feet off the rungs, and prepared to roll. The 32 foot+ ladder had been secured, but obviously not enough and slid away at the base. I still climb ladders, but not to work while standing on one. Hope you learn from my mistake.


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## bibbster (Jun 10, 2016)

Thanks all, for the input and suggestions. The easy part ended up being taking down the squirrel nesting box. I chose to do it at night no knowing how many bees, or how few, were in that box. Knowing what I know now, I coulda done it in the day time. You'll see why below. The property owners son was there to help and I'm glad he was. He was able to load a bucket with the tools I needed as I went along so I didn't have to go up and down the ladder a million times.

After a closer inspection of the box before removal, I found that the bottom edge of the box was not attached to the tree and the top was only secured with a small lag screw. I secured the box to the tree using a cinch strap. I smoked the majority of the bees on one side of the box and stapled screen over the holes. There were some holes in the back of the box too, but thankfully I could reach them and put some duct tape over them. We moved the ladder to the other side where the final removal would occur (there were two large knots that allowed the ladder to rest square and sturdy on the tree). I smoked the majority of the bees on that side into the box and stapled over the large main entrance. Looked like there were a few dozen or so bees that would be left behind. Not too bad.

Next I secured a cinch strap around the box horizontally, and then one vertically. Since the box was only hanging by a small screw, I didn't want to do any drilling, screwing, etc., to the box. I took a fourth strap and made a 4" loop with it on the top of the box around the vertical strap. I then tied a piece of rope to the loop and gave the other end to my help on the ground. He pulled the rope taught and then I used a pry bar to free the box from the tree. The box only had to go about 6" before it rested against the top of the ladder. Once I was sure things were good for lowering I worked my way down the ladder until the box cleared it and then it was lowered the rest of the way. It couldn't have gone any smoother.

The cutout to the new hive? Well, that didn't go do smoothly. It's taking me forever to type this as I have a sting on the end of my left middle finger. I also took one too my left thigh from one that managed to crawl up my pants leg. I've been stung probably a dozen or so times in the past year and I never had the reaction I did to these two stings. Oh well, part of the fun of beekeeping I guess. I never did find the queen but it wasn't for lack of trying. I suspect she was on the outside of the squirrel box since they kept clustering there. Once I had all the brood frames in place I added all of those bees to the new hive. I have to assume she is in there at this point. I'll know in a day or two. At the end of the day, I ended up with a full medium of cutout brood. I didn't salvage any drone comb, honey comb, or older hard comb. I left all of that to the bees to clean out.

Having typed all of that, I'm gonna let the pics do the rest of the 'typing' for me.

Arrived at home about 10PM Friday night.









A few stragglers I brought home in the car.









Releasing them at 6AM the next day.

















Removed the front panel of the box. The lower third was litter.









Litter is out of the way.









Bees!

















First piece of comb removed...more brood!









It didn't take them long to cover the brood again. This happened every time and became a bit tiresome. They weren't keen on moving to begin with.









More comb removed. You can see the bees starting to go in and out of their new hive in the upper right corner.









After all the brood was moved and I was pretty much done. There were so many bees that I added a second box with brood frames.










Here is another video during the process. LOTS of bees!


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## Scott Gough (Dec 10, 2015)

Awesome to see that you survived the ladder work. I always love opening a swarm box after a capture. I am sure that I was exciting to see what was in the box after getting it home. Congratulations!


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## bibbster (Jun 10, 2016)

Thanks, Scott. It was exciting for sure! I've got a couple more things to take pictures of that were interesting so I'll share those here as well. I hope your son had a nice birthday.


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## cervus (May 8, 2016)

Good job!


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## bibbster (Jun 10, 2016)

Thank you, cervus. And thanks again for your input.


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## JTGaraas (Jun 7, 2014)

It is very hard to argue with success! Congratulations; you obviously took care, and are ready to do it again. Enjoy the bees; their honey should be a bit better with your effort.


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## bibbster (Jun 10, 2016)

Thank you, JT. I'm not sure if I'll ever do it again, but I do have a few more skills for the resume. lol Hopefully they will continue to thrive and they will have some honey to share in the Spring.

Here are a couple more pictures. The first shows a 1 1/2" long beetle that the bees propolized (new word!) into place. The second shows the inside of the nesting box after I removed the comb. They were out of room and would likely have swarmed soon.


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## bibbster (Jun 10, 2016)

Just as a follow up to this craziness...I did my first inspection since re-hiving the colony and they are doing well. The queen is in the hive and laying. Unfortunately I didn't get any pictures of her yet, but she is the darkest queen I have seen yet. Literally almost black with very, very narrow amber stripes. They are not building out much comb so I'll start feeding them this weekend.


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