# Duramycin-10 vs Terramycin



## HJ7 (Feb 6, 2009)

Is there any difference between these two items? What is the appropriate dosing regimens?


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## louborges (May 16, 2009)

Good question, Surpised no one has responded.


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## fat/beeman (Aug 23, 2002)

if your useing either one your treating for afb=====best thing burn there's no cure. to use one as apreventive in not good idea, yoy only covering up a big problem.
Don


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## DRUR (May 24, 2009)

I am 95% sure there is no difference provided you compare duramycin-10 with terrimycin-10. Hive and honeybee will give you the treatment mixtures. Also, I think Walter T. Kelly's catalog will tell you how to mix.


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## DRUR (May 24, 2009)

fat/beeman said:


> if your useing either one your treating for afb=====best thing burn there's no cure.


Sorry, I disagree. During the 80's I helped treat some migratory beeks colonies. They were probably stressed out from the move from North Dakota to East Texas. As I can recall we treated by mixing with I think, powedered sugar and then sprinkling accross the top bars. After the first treatment we shook all the bees into new frames and new boxes and burned the old boxes. Then continue the treatments. There were no further problems as I recall.

As I can recall you treat 4-6 times, I can look this up when I have time if you don't have a "Hive and Honeybee". Just let me know and I will try to find mine and dig it out.

Not that I recommed treating for this, just telling you that it worked back in the 80's.


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## Axtmann (Dec 29, 2002)

If one of your hives has AFB and you cover the problem with antibiotics it doesn’t take long and all of your hives have it. 

Destroy one and save the others or eventually you will loose everything.


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## megank (Mar 28, 2006)

fat/beeman said:


> if your useing either one your treating for afb=====best thing burn there's no cure. to use one as apreventive in not good idea, yoy only covering up a big problem.
> Don


Well...Here's a thought...Say he starts off with AFB hives...What happens if his bees find someone elses hives afflicted with AFB and innoculates most of his hives?

Also...if it's not a good idea to preventative treat against desease...why do we get our children vaccinated?

Sure bees are not children,but bees being succeptable to desease why not use effective treatment to prevent against desease?


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## Axtmann (Dec 29, 2002)

If bees bring AFB spores in a hive nothing can help. There is nothing on the marked to prevent an outbreak soon or later. I have a feeling, some beekeepers have no idea what AFB in there bee yard means.

They can feed antibiotics by the pounds and can’t prevent the hives from getting AFB. Antibiotics can NOT kill AFB spores. The bacteria can hatch from almost 100 years old spores.
Bees can bring AFB spores from contaminated honey out of other dieing colonies or even from dirty honey jars on a garbage dump. 

The only way to prevent an infection is helping other beekeeper in the 3km flying range to keeping there hives clean and stay far away from any dump.

Beekeepers know this ........but some so called beekeeper believe in hocus-pocus.


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## DRUR (May 24, 2009)

Axtmann said:


> If bees bring AFB spores in a hive nothing can help. There is nothing on the marked to prevent an outbreak soon or later. They can feed antibiotics by the pounds and can’t prevent the hives from getting AFB. Antibiotics can NOT kill AFB spores.
> Beekeepers know this ........but some so called beekeeper believe in hocus-pocus.


Following comes from Hive and *Honey Bee, Revised Edition *1946, 1949, 1963, 1975, by Dadant & Sons, Inc. Library of Congress Catalog Card Number: 63-15838:

"*Both American foulbrood and European foulbrood may be prevented if colonies in spring, between the beginning of brood rearing and the start of the honeyflow, are given a dust treatment of terramycin and sulfathiazole. A satisfactory formula is a quarter teaspoonful of Terramycin (TM-25) Animal Formula), a quarter teaspoonful of sodium sulfathiazole, over the tops of the brood frames three times before the flow." (page 395)

"The net effect is that colonies containing both genes have a resistance to American Foulbrood disease (see Chapter XXI)." (page 187, see also page 174 and table 1 on page 173 for breeding for resistance)*

*There is much more in this book (and others) on the disease, and apparently others believe it is treatable.*

Marla Spivak’s Minnesota Hygienic Queens are bred specifically for this hygienic behavior for resistance to these brood diseases.

From Walter T. Kelley’s 2009 catalog, page 41:

"*Duramycin-10 is an approved medication for the treatment and control of American and European Foul Brood. Mix 1 part to 5 parts powdered sugar for dusting; dosage 1tsp. mixture per colony.*"

Take note that Duramycin-5 is ½ as strong as D-10, and D-25 would be 2 ½ as strong as D-10, so you should adjust the mixtures accordingly. As I can recall you treat every 3 days. When we treated during the 80’s (if I recall correctly) we gave 5 treatments every 3 days.

*Now the above being said, do not take this as a recommendation from me concerning whether to treat or not.*


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

Bacillus larvae spores are everywhere, especially in bee hives. Healthy colonies have spores all over inside. It is only when the spore count is high enough that the larva break down and rot. Then the spores reproduce in huge numbers and you have an infection with gross symptoms. That is why it is helpful to medicate apparently healthy colonies, it prevents the spores from blooming in larva.


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## Axtmann (Dec 29, 2002)

"Bacillus larvae spores are everywhere, especially in bee hives."

Tom your right, but I miss something. Healthy colonies ….with old rotten combs… have spores all over inside. If your brood combs are not older then 5 years it’s hard to find spores, even in a lab. Believe it or not, these tests are made in several German bee institutes and almost all results came up negative. 

Here for beginners who are willing to learn... hold your empty brood combs against the sun with your hand behind, if you can’t see the shadow from your hand put the comb in your solar smelter.

DRUR if ours bee suppliers came up with adds like this in a German bee magazine they would have visitors from our government the next day. Beekeepers are in a human food production and if they use antibiotics this will end up on there morning breakfast table. How would you explain your grandchildren if they are sick and need antibiotics... it don’t help you because it is already in your daily food? 

I know there are people they don’t care. That the reason why we have so many problems. I would be not surprised to here one day that you have even antibiotic resistant AFB in your colonies.

If we are not teaching beginners to take care of there bees and keep them clean and healthy without putting junk in there hives, how should they know what’s going on?


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## AR Beekeeper (Sep 25, 2008)

Axtmann: You are correct, our use of antibiotics here in the USA is a time bomb that will blow up in our faces some day. I don't think it is a case of people not caring as much as it is a case of beekeepers that have not been properly trained.

There are areas where AFB is common and there are areas where it is seldom found. If a beginning beekeeper has no one to show him how to properly detect and identify bee diseases, and the lives in an area rotten with AFB, he has to rely on preventative treatments to protect his bees. 

At the first opportunity a beginner should attend a beekeepers association meeting and find a mentor that will show him healthy bees and help him to identify diseased brood. A beginner can read all the books about disease, but there is nothing better than seeing an actual case. 

Only after being properly trained should a beekeeper should stop any preventative treatments. If he quits before then, his bees are in danger and all the bees within flying distance of him.

I am lucky to live in an area where AFB is uncommon and I have not done preventative treatments for 30 years with no occurance of the disease.


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