# New UPS rules for shipping bees? Anyone know more about this?



## JSL (Sep 22, 2007)

Yes, this is a tough one so late in the season...

Below is a link to the UPS guidelines. It seems aimed at packages to avoid syrup leakage and bees getting through holes in the screen.

http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/re...nimals.html?srch_pos=1&srch_phr=bee+shipments


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## rwholly (Sep 21, 2014)

Thanks, that's great! I was wondering what an alternative shipping container would look like.
My people didn't get notified until late February, too late to adjust, and last year they lost 24 or more packages because the UPS drivers sprayed the packages, killing the bees. These poor people need a break!


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## johng (Nov 24, 2009)

I wonder if UPS has stock in that new company that's making the all plastic package cages? 

I saw some of the new package cages at my supplier when I picked up my packages and he wasn't too sure about them. He complained that when the funnel was on top of the cages that the weight bowed them down a little allowing bees to escape while they were shaking. And he said it's also harder to see how many bees are actually in the cage.


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## Bkwoodsbees (Feb 8, 2014)

The liquid feed ban is partly due the ever changing strict guidelines for carrying hazardous materials as mandated by the federal government. Some examples of hazardous materials are aerosol sprays, some paints, batteries, and a lot of household chemicals. Although sugar syrup is in no way considered hazardous it is the risk of it spilling or leaking that poses a big problem. Any liquid leaking out on other packages can result in damages. Also any liquid leaking out of a package is to be considered hazardous until it is identified. Any leaking while in transit can result in the whole trailer or container being impounded by the DOT until emergency hazardous response crew says it is ok for transit. Potential for a.big mess and delays for people waiting for their packages and know exactly when they are supposed to arrive ( Internet tracking). With ICC, dot and homeland security it is impossible to accommodate everyone and keep everyone happy. Bees and beekepers are innocent but it is what it is.


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## rwholly (Sep 21, 2014)

Thanks so much for the explanation, that really makes sense. If we/they can figure out suitable shipping containers and solid food that delivers healthy bees overnight, I'm all for it.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

Why couldnt the syrup cans be loaded with fondant and opened with an old timey church key that could open some triangles to let the bees in to the can.


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## JSL (Sep 22, 2007)

Vance,

Great idea, they are called "walk-in cans" by some, but require extra work and handling.


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## Ddawg (Feb 17, 2012)

rwholly said:


> I live in the North Dallas area, and get my bees from an apiary here in Texas. I was scheduled to get bees shipped to me via UPS the end of April, then got the following from my supplier:
> 
> "In late February UPS alerted us that they will no longer allow us to use the shipping cages and syrup we have used in the past. We appealed and were able to get permission to use the cages (until we run out of our current inventory), but not the feed. This morning the ‘Dangerous Goods’ department informed us they will allow us to use solid food only. We have thousands of cages built and ready for spring, and have since fall, but they will only accommodate liquid feed. There is not time to buy more lumber/supplies/feed and build new cages for April/May shipping."
> 
> ...


All the more reason to start raising your own bees


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## angel (Jul 23, 2013)

Similar to this is if you ship via UPS, then when it gets to your hometown they (UPS) has the right to transfer your package over to USPS, which delay's your shipment date by 1-2 days so its sitting in the USPS bins, as well as the USPS leaves the package on top of the mailbox instead of taking it to your door, thus killing the bees.

Ask me how I know this...... I have specialty medication that cannot be left out in the sun (its gel capsules that melts in the sun), thus UPS and USPS think my package is a ebay package..... 

Think what this does to the bees on a very hot day. Same effect. UPS and USPS have gone to crap in my book.


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## gatsby174 (Jun 2, 2014)

Most local post offices will keep the bees in the cool, dark storeroom until you come to pick them up. This is how I got both my packages. No issues at all. Generally, if you go in to speak with the Postmaster ahead of time, they are more than happy to let you pick them up as soon as the shipment comes in that morning (they don't want them buzzing in the room all day!). I picked mine up at 6am both times I was forced to order packages.


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## mcon672 (Mar 5, 2015)

That's not exactly correct Angel. UPS has an agreement with certain companies to move freight for the USPS. UPS knocks 3 days off of the USPS's transit time (Difference between private sector and government ). UPS only delivers packages to the post offic that are designated as postal packages. They don't have a "right" to leave any package there. This was a way to help a miserably failing USPS and for UPS to make more profit by cutting their delivery guys out of the picture. It is an option that must be chosen by the shipper. They would never do this with bees which are generally next day air. I


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## Colobee (May 15, 2014)

This was an issue for me last year. Packages arrived with an empty, never capped can, just filling the hole in the cage. One pkg had some white residue that was the remains of some marshmallows that were substituted. 

I was lucky to get a break in the weather & discover this early. I had assumed the quart of syrup ( which wasn't there) would feed them for a few days. You know what they say about assumptions....

I've had good luck with all the shippers. These are apparently not "new" rules. Rough handling was apparently causing syrup spills. My understanding was that it was Fed Ex that led the "no more syrup" charge.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Vance G said:


> Why couldnt the syrup cans be loaded with fondant and opened with an old timey church key that could open some triangles to let the bees in to the can.


They still need moisture to make it consumable.

Some years ago I got packages and was surprised at how little of the syrup had been consumed. 

I just got a cardboard box of queens shipped via ups. The bottom appears to be sealed with paraffin. Granulated sugar....or queen candy on the bottom and sponges that apparently were wet before shipping.


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## angel (Jul 23, 2013)

mcon672 said:


> That's not exactly correct Angel. UPS has an agreement with certain companies to move freight for the USPS. UPS knocks 3 days off of the USPS's transit time (Difference between private sector and government ). UPS only delivers packages to the post offic that are designated as postal packages. They don't have a "right" to leave any package there. This was a way to help a miserably failing USPS and for UPS to make more profit by cutting their delivery guys out of the picture. It is an option that must be chosen by the shipper. They would never do this with bees which are generally next day air. I


Well... something's wrong here in small town America, because asking the shipping company to specifically to code the barcode to NOT reroute to USPS (I think its the first 3 numbers) still ends up in USPS hands. These packages I'm talking about are next day air packages. Its happened three times with me and inspection of the shipped codes showed that it was not supposed to be rerouted over to USPS (this was coming from the shipper).

Also, asking the companies, rather paying "extra" to the company for specified UPS and NON USPS delivery still results in "mishaps" of rerouted packages to the USPS regardless. 

During this process, if you try to track or physically find out where your package is (ups or usps), BOTH companies could not tell me which "vendor" had it at the time.... so technically a package is MIA and your SOL in regards to who is going to deliver it and throw it on your mailbox or neighbors doorstep.

Just my 1 cent rant from what has happened to me several times.


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## Walter Lawler (Apr 12, 2013)

I worked as a mechanic for a very long time at a major rental/lease company. Ups would rent trucks from us at heavy volume times. I would be assigned to go to the ups garage to repair our trucks. Has any one ever seen how they load those delivery vehicles? I was appalled! They take packages off the conveyer, walk to about 4 feet from the rear of truck and throw it to the front of 16 foot van body. I was working on one and asked the loader "what if that was a fragile package"? All he said was "hope it was packed good and they bought the insurance". Overnight stuff isn't treated much different. Sometimes they have only minutes to load it, ups has flat rate time as to how long things should take, it's all about production. It should only take around 30 mins from feeder (tractor trailer) to get it loaded onto a package car (delivery van). That said, they have still a pretty good record. USPS is even worse they lost a bunch of my expensive tools and I couldn't collect insurance. They flattened the boxes and they had a rainwater leak in the back of their truck which allowed the cardboard box to rip open. I'll NEVER ship priority boxes again. My fault for trying to save a buck.


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## MJuric (Jul 12, 2010)

I never understood how these places allow shipping of bees anyway. Having packages break open is a pretty common thing in shipping and having a swarm of bees in a truck or worse yet a plane could be really bad. Having a delivery guy getting stung is a bad thing. Seems to me that they are just now realizing what is really in these boxes and saying they no longer want to take the risk. 

~Matt


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

Must be a deadly dangerous problem! They have only been shipping them by mail for a hundred and twenty five years at least. The pussification of the country continues apace.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Vance G said:


> The pussification of the country continues apace.


I don't know about that. A package of bees broken open....in a confined area....even the toughest folks would be dangerously distracted. We might have been doing it for a hundred plus years but the first time a ups plane has a failed landing because of a thousand bees in the ****pit....look out.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

It wouldn't surprise me to see the package delivery system eventually end up transitioning to "distribution" centers only. No more home deliveries. Pick up your packages at the nearest center where packages are shipped in by the trailer load and everyone picks them up there. 

That's pretty common already in this area. Local associations co-op with their orders, and packages are trucked in by the hundreds and then distributed locally by pick up. Not too good for those in the outer rural areas though.


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## BadBeeKeeper (Jan 24, 2015)

Walter Lawler said:


> I worked as a mechanic for a very long time at a major rental/lease company. Ups would rent trucks from us at heavy volume times. I would be assigned to go to the ups garage to repair our trucks. Has any one ever seen how they load those delivery vehicles? I was appalled!


LOL, in my previous job, I was a warehouse manager for a regional trucking company covering ME, NH, VT and parts of NY and MA. We had a contract with FedEx for their SmartPost deliveries (final delivery by USPS), we would run line-hauls from NOMA in Marlborough, MA to our warehouses in ME,NH and VT, with stops and crossdock transfers at other companies whose products we shipped. While I can't speak for UPS, I can certainly say that most folks would be horrified to see what happens to their stuff at various points in shipping. I think the FedEx people were the worst, with immigrant employees who could barely speak, read or write English, and for whom "Fragile" was Italian for "Smash me hard". I'd get stuff in my warehouse in ME that was supposed to have been shipped to other states like FL and even AK. Pallets of stuff stacked on top of pallets of stuff on top of pallets of stuff, often times pallets weighing 1/4 to 1/2 a ton would be [illogically] stacked on top of much lighter mail, with with packages crushed and broken. Some would be -so- bad, that I'd get them off the trailer and set them down on the floor, and 5 minutes later they would just fall over and come apart. These things would be rammed into trailers with forklifts so hard that wooden pallets would be shattered and plastic USPS pallets would be folded up like an accordion, and we'd get holes in the noses of the trailers from the forks being driven through them.

Always buy the insurance. Always.


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## Morris Forbes (Apr 30, 2006)

I had a package mailed to me about ten years ago in Waxahachie, Tx. When I got to the post office early to pick it up, the folks looked confused and it took a while for them to bring the package out. The were apologetic, though. Seems they had gotten 800 packages that morning and it took a while to find mine.


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## tpope (Mar 1, 2015)

In the near future, UPS and FEDEX will buy out USPS and form a new company called...




FedUps.


I drove an hour each way this afternoon to pick up my nuc for a reason.


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## Colobee (May 15, 2014)

Mike Gillmore said:


> It wouldn't surprise me to see the package delivery system eventually end up transitioning to "distribution" centers only. No more home deliveries. Pick up your packages at the nearest center where packages are shipped in by the trailer load and everyone picks them up there.
> 
> That's pretty common already in this area. Local associations co-op with their orders, and packages are trucked in by the hundreds and then distributed locally by pick up. Not too good for those in the outer rural areas though.


Last year I was chastised for questioning the lack of syrup. It wasn't mentioned anywhere on the website, most notably when choosing the delivery method at check out. The bees have become ~40% intolerably hot ( just my opinion/observation in my own little yard). The lady has never been very pleasant to deal with. Scolding a 35 year customer was the last straw for me. I don't really care that they can't ship them to me anymore, with or without syrup. 

I found a local drop shipment in Denver this year. They were $65 per package *less*. Queens from a very reputable multi-generation breeder outside the "Hot Zone", packages put together in Colorado. It will take an hour, and ~$10 worth of gas to go get them, and they will be over $250 cheaper for 4 packages. Pretty much a "no brainer". 

Sustainability just keeps sounding better and better, doesn't it? I should be there by next spring.


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## thehackleguy (Jul 29, 2014)

I'm curious if they could change the feeder to a wire basket and put a feed gel in there instead of syrup. Something like this:


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## kan9 (Jan 21, 2015)

Hmmmm....I live in Dallas TX area as well and am expecting my package from Noble Apiaries any day now. I haven't heard they cant ship it to me.


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## MJuric (Jul 12, 2010)

*They have only been shipping them by mail for a hundred and twenty five years at least.*

I've never thought the "We've always done it this way" was a very valid argument.
*
The pussification of the country continues apace. *

Of course because anyone who might get distracted by getting stung by a few bees while driving or flying an airplane is obviously a big pussy. 

Some times things that "We've always done" are not the greatest idea. Shipping a live animal that is both poisonous and potentially deadly to some thru streams that include flight, driving on public streets not to mention thru sorting facilities where thousands of people are potentially at risk is not the best idea in the world.

Like I said I think this is simply a case where "Best practices" caught up with "Well we've always done it this way". 

~Matt


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## thehackleguy (Jul 29, 2014)

MJuric said:


> *I've never thought the "We've always done it this way" was a very valid argument.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Matt,

While I tend to agree with what you have said here......replacing "We've always done it this way" with *nothing* is usually not helpful either. If we are searching for 'best practices" then that is what should replace the way we have always done it if in fact it is something that *needs* to be done. I think if people had better options you wouldn't see the irritation/anger over the issue.


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## MJuric (Jul 12, 2010)

thehackleguy said:


> Matt,
> 
> While I tend to agree with what you have said here......replacing "We've always done it this way" with *nothing* is usually not helpful either. If we are searching for 'best practices" then that is what should replace the way we have always done it if in fact it is something that *needs* to be done. I think if people had better options you wouldn't see the irritation/anger over the issue.


In cases where the risk out weigh the benefit sometimes the answer is nothing. There are MANY things you just can't ship via UPS, USPS etc specifically for safety reasons. If you need those things you have to acquire those items in some other manner then UPS etc. I suspect bees will be the same way. It appears that UPS has determined there really is no "Safe" way to ship bees as they determined there is no "Safe" way to ship gasoline with these methods. 

There may not be a "Better option" and the next option may in fact be more cumbersome, expensive etc. That's just how the cookie crumbles. That does not mean you can't get bees, that means you can't get them thru UPS etc anymore.

Another way to look at this is that there is now an opportunity for some enterprising individual to create or expand their current bee delivering services. If this becomes a big enough issue for enough people, producers and consumers, someone is going to step in to fix it.

~Matt


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## thehackleguy (Jul 29, 2014)

Yep, it is probably due to that rash of interstate accidents and airplane crashes from last bee shipping season. On a side note to OP, if you have a bee club in your area they may have shipping day where someone goes and gets packages. Also check craigs list, I've seen ads about people picking up bees on their travels and transporting them.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I think there is a huge difference between "we've always done it that way so we can't change" and "it's worked for the last 125 years so why are we suddenly saying it doesn't work?"


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

I suggest that you sit tranquilly in a warm soundproof room with sedatives and a cool drink at hand. I guess I am just a wild and crazy guy who just doesn't have as much to live for as you do. And I don't have time to be afraid of my shadow. Enjoy the bubble!



MJuric said:


> *They have only been shipping them by mail for a hundred and twenty five years at least.*
> 
> I've never thought the "We've always done it this way" was a very valid argument.
> *
> ...


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

I am starting to see a pattern.. new dot rules no syrup in bee packages.. as of march 15 many small electric motors discontinued due to federal energy regulations, the new ones will much cost more if available...as of april 16 new water heater rules, almost all oil hot water heater plants have closed in us and Canada, many electric and propane heater sizes are discontinued due to retooling costs, all remaining hot water heaters will cost 2 1/2 to 3 times as much and will take a lot more space.... I see a pattern.


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## ChuckReburn (Dec 17, 2013)

MJuric said:


> *They have only been shipping them by mail for a hundred and twenty five years at least.*
> 
> I've never thought the "We've always done it this way" was a very valid argument.
> *
> ...


Two changes will likely be coming: Packages will include fondant rather than sugar syrup and they'll revert back to the old wooden cages - the new plastic cages had a habit of deforming and leaking bees (ironically, the way they had always been caging packages was better and proved to be a better practice). Apparently drivers will just need to cowboy up.


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