# Mixing sugar tank



## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

This question is for the folks up north. I have heard up in Canada they mix dry sugar useing a 18 inch augar in a tank. Does anyone know of this method or have pics of this method.
Thanks, Keith


----------



## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

the mixer is used for 5 gal paint pails. most hardware stores stock them for 5-10 dollars. I use a cordless drill and cold water. after mixing let set for 10-15 minutes and stir one more time. usually we mix 5 pails at a time.much easier than using a barrel and works well.


----------



## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

beeware10 said:


> the mixer is used for 5 gal paint pails. .


that might be useful in the 101 thread.

I'm looking for the "commercial model" they are home built, this is not for a one can dairy. I would like to mix 1000-2000 gallons at a time.

BW, thanks for the post.


----------



## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

ya, thats a little more than we have mixed. If is for myself I would just use a couple 275 gal totes. drop in a trash pump or sump from harbor freight. after one is mixed pump into the large tank. I'm too cheap to spend much on something that does not make money. good luck


----------



## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

beeware10 said:


> I'm too cheap to spend much on something that does not make money. good luck


Beeware, How much are you paying for cane sugar per pound?


----------



## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

In the April ABJ is a picture of Russel Olivarez standing in front of a large sugar mixing tank in their Hawaii operation. No details given so maybe call them and see what they are doing.Let us know..


----------



## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

Hey Keith...check this out. Other than buying a whole truck this may get you close to it without have to build something.

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/379660845/DY_RM_series_large_capacity_cement.html


----------



## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Thanks Alpha, but I'm looking for something a little bit bigger. The auger system I've heard works really well, I'm thinking the auger size is about 18" x 5' or there abouts.


----------



## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

keith
last fall we paid .46 cents thinking we would have to feed in sc but the bees we took down were real heavy. will use that when the bees come north. we just got 6 inches of snow so I expect a late spring. it was 14 degrees above this morning. I just saw sugar on sale at a local store for .62 so looks like price is going up.


----------



## Trevor Mansell (Jan 16, 2005)

Some friends of mine in Ga took a large propane tank about 8 feet long and cut the top out of it . They mounted the pulley system from a woodman extractor in the top and welded some paddles on it . They use a home made propane burner to heat it from the bottom . It is cheap to make and they feed about 2400 hives with it.


----------



## swarm_trapper (Jun 19, 2003)

keith we use a 1000 gal milk tank with the cream paddle in it.
we can also run the hot water through the cooling tubes it works great it would be mixed in one to two hours. 
One problem is you cant pour the sugar in all at one time or it will drop to the bottom and seize up the paddle. but if you pour in 2-3000lbs in over a 15 min period it will work.
Nick


----------



## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

swarm_trapper said:


> One problem is you cant pour the sugar in all at one time or it will drop to the bottom and seize up the paddle.


Nick, that's the reason for the auger set up, I/we want to drop a tote of sugar (2200lb) into the tank and have it keep mixing, I don't want to baby sit the thing.


----------



## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

Keith!!! I found the perfect mixer for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIGGGTnFfE8


----------



## greenbeekeeping (Feb 13, 2003)

I seen a nice mixing tank at a beekeeper auction once and I have kicked myself for not buying it. There was an auger that you dumped bagged sugar into that took it up into a big tank. The tank was at least 800 gallons and there was a mixing auger in the bottom of the tank that ran the length of the tank. Hot water was pumped into the tank from above. It was a nice setup.


----------



## Mtn. Bee (Nov 10, 2009)

Keith,
Why don't you get a power Ice Auger like they use for icefishing?
I have an older Jiffy gas 3hp with a 8" ice bit and also have a dirt bit for fence post holes.
I know they have enough torque because when the dirt bit hangs up on a rock its Hang on Sally or your going for a ride! 
How about using water pressure recert from one tank back into itself?
Seems to me that Jean Marc was talking about that on here some time back!? :s


----------



## HONEYDEW (Mar 9, 2007)

for the cost of a mixing system wouldn't it be money ahead to buy liquid sucrose and add water to whatever blend you want?, Or is that way over simplifying things :s


----------



## blackflag (Apr 27, 2010)

Hi as far as system. I know a commercial guy who is doing about five hundred gallons at a time. Very simply he is using a stainless steel tank with a circulating pump works great. Easy to make any dairy supply place could help you also you can find old dairy tanks there is a used dairy equipment place I can't think of the name but check out the internet.


----------



## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

Kieth,
How about using a grain or post hole auger that you could modify to your tank.
Hint: Insert the auger in a well casing + some of your welding.
Ernie


----------



## MichaBees (Sep 26, 2010)

Trevor Mansell said:


> Some friends of mine in Ga took a large propane tank about 8 feet long and cut the top out of it . They mounted the pulley system from a woodman extractor in the top and welded some paddles on it . They use a home made propane burner to heat it from the bottom . It is cheap to make and they feed about 2400 hives with it.


Have your friends check into the toxic effects of a propane tank that has been used, and is latter used for something else. 
I know someone that recycle some old gas lines, and used them for irrigation. Later the lines were taped to supply water for animals. The animals were sick and constantly dying from the residue poison at the gas lines.


----------



## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

HONEYDEW said:


> for the cost of a mixing system wouldn't it be money ahead to buy liquid sucrose Or is that way over simplifying things :s


Well HONEYDEW, let me simplify it for you.

Liquid surcrose by the tanker runs about $20,000, ok now..... keep following me here HONEYDEW. I can mix that seem load from a cheap dry source of sugar for $8,000 a load.


So HoneyDew, your math question today is, if I mixed 22 loads in a year how much money did I save?


----------



## Mathispollenators (Jun 9, 2008)

I know my way of doing it may not be what you're asking about but here is my method of mixing a tote (the 550 gal things) of feed. I fill it with water then use a boat trolling motor to mix it as I add the sugar, pollen sub, and whatever. No augers, homemade gadgets, or anything else and I can use the motor on the boat fishing too. I don't have any heated water but here in Ga it don't get that cold. So I've never thought I needed the heat to help dissolve the sugar like maybe needed in colder places. I used to use a sheet rock mud mixing thing on a bigger drill but the motor just seemed to work better for me.


----------



## Trevor Mansell (Jan 16, 2005)

MichaBees said:


> Have your friends check into the toxic effects of a propane tank that has been used, and is latter used for something else.
> I know someone that recycle some old gas lines, and used them for irrigation. Later the lines were taped to supply water for animals. The animals were sick and constantly dying from the residue poison at the gas lines.


 I dont think its a concern ,they are one of the largest cut comb producers in the southeast . They have had no issues and there bees always look great .


----------



## Chip Euliss (Sep 2, 2010)

Keith,

I bought a 300 gallon double-lined dairy tank last year. It's stainless and has an 120v agitator with a paddle wheel for mixing. I put 2, 120v immersion heaters (Mann Lake) in 150-200 gallons of water and it almost scalding hot over night. Add sugar with the agitator wheel turning and let it run till cool enough to pump in the hive feeders. I had a metal pallet built into it's base so I can lift it to and from the bee truck and pump right out of it into the hives. I had to modify the upper openings a little so it doesn't slosh syrup out the top when driving down the road--a local machine shop did the work. They build much bigger tanks if you want but you may have to out a couple of agitators in it to mix well--I only wanted something I could pick up with the swinger. I bought mine on ebay from an outfit in Nebraska that specializes in old dairy tanks. Works good and I prefer feeding sugar syrup over HFCS.

Chip


----------



## blackflag (Apr 27, 2010)

The guy I spoke of in California runs 15000 colonies. The stainless steel tank is not heated but if you like you can heat it like someone previously said. For the kind of savings you discribed the recirculating pump and stainless steel tank will be paid for in no time good luck.


----------



## chillardbee (May 26, 2005)

My friend up here has a regular 55 gallon drum fitted with a brace that goes across the top of the barrel that holds a shaft with a large propeller. He has a motor conected to this (looks a lot like a extractor set up). At the bottom of the barrel is a valve and hose that leads to a pump and another hose thats long enough to go into his tank on the truck. It takes him about 30-40 min to mix each barrel, this includes the filling part way with water and the dumping of sugar and mixing and pumping into his tank on the back of his truck. when i get pics i'll post them.


----------



## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Thats how I do it too. Except the hose leaving the pump has a gas type nozzle for filling gallon jug feeders.Works ok and could be used on a much larger mixing tank.


----------



## Allen Martens (Jan 13, 2007)

Any beekeepers I know up here of any significant size get syrup delivered by the tanker. Some of the smaller ones will mix their own. Maybe in the west some are mixing their own but most use liquid.

If I used as many loads as your talking about and a price difference as great as your talking about I'd setup a system using hopper bottom tanks or bins in a heart beat.


----------



## MTINAZ (Jan 15, 2010)

Do brewery or wine tanks have mixers in them?


----------



## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Some of those 'significant' beeks may have to rethink that ,if the price of liquid sugar keeps going up.


----------



## Allen Martens (Jan 13, 2007)

I'm not understanding why the price of liquid sugar is going to increase but not dry sugar.

I don't think it's a matter of being stuck in a rut for beeks using liquid sugar in Canada; just the cheapest source currently. 

Question for a many of us is whether we'll go back to HFCS for wintering and risk higher wintering mortality.


----------



## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

The price of both will keep going. Keith just has a secret source for cherap dry sugar. Perhaps fresh from the boat.

Jean-Marc


----------



## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

You are right sugar is going up too. But the market seems volatile and not all products rise at the same rate. Just sayin-sometimes a good deal can be found.


----------



## rocky1 (Jul 19, 2009)

Haven't seen the auger method but we have one that was made out of a 1500 gallon round tank and a jeep rear end. 

-- Stood the tank on end, with enough clearance for a pump underneath. 
-- Welded a piece of 10 x 2 inch channel across the top. 
-- Cut one axle off the OLD Jeep rear end, I think the thing has like 5.85:1 gears or something along those lines. 
-- Welded up the spider gears so it will drive with only one axle. 
-- Made a paddle to bolt up to the hub out of a piece of 3 inch pipe, and 3 x 1/2 inch flat. 
-- Slid it all down in the tank and bolted it up. 
-- Bolted a pulley on the pinion where the U joint used to hook up. 
-- Mounted 2 pillar blocks and made up a belt driven gear reduction drive. 
-- Powered it with a 1/2 horse 110 volt motor. 

Motor is turning 1760 RPMs paddle is only turning about 12 - 13 RPMs. Don't know about dumping a 500 lb tote of sugar in it at a time, but it'll work you to death dumping 100 lb sacks and never miss a beat. Meter our water going in, quick calculation to determine weight, calculate ratio of sugar. 

It was later plumbed into a railroad tank car that was stationary mounted for use with Syrup, pump is plumbed and valved so that you can pump out of the tanker or into the tanker, or out to the fill line for the feed truck. Fill line to the feed truck is also metered for the purpose of selling syrup. It's been idle for awhile, but it's going to be resurrected soon. 

Only issue is, IF you are purchasing High Fructose Corn Syrup, by the truck load, your tank car has to meet Food Safe Standards. Including Food Safe Liner, Food Safe Fittings, and an assortment of other garbage. 

When that volatile price is right however, and you can purchase a truckload of syrup at the time, you can save some bucks.


----------



## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Rocky, that was a great post. Best post in a long time! I really like the mind at work in your post, thanks again. Keith


----------



## rocky1 (Jul 19, 2009)

That was all my dad's doings many many years ago Keith, around '73 -'74 as best I recall. And, it was actually a very low budget project. The old tank was laying out behind the honey house when we bought the business in '68. It was used to haul water to the bees on the farming section on summer locations, before we started migrating to ND over the summer. Typically kept a couple drums full of water in each yard so they didn't aggravate the land owner and his neighbors quite so bad. 

The Jeep rear end was under a junker back in the trees at the neighbor's place. That was a freebie, as he used the mixing tank occasionally as well. 

Motor used to drive it was a spare off an old extractor. Used a spare honey pump to pump the syrup. As best I recall, he only had around $150 in the entire mixing tank project. 

Railroad tank car was a different story!


----------



## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

You had Keith the minute you put 1500 gallon tank and Jeep rear end in the same sentence. Unless I miss my guess he is already on the trail hunting down parts.


----------



## greenbeekeeping (Feb 13, 2003)

Wow. That setup sounded pretty neat.


----------



## rocky1 (Jul 19, 2009)

It was a pretty easy build Keith! You've just got to find an old Willys or CJ3 rear end to get that gear ratio down there around 6:1 where you need it. 

Should anyone attempt this build, keep in mind, you always want to start your mixer and have your water rolling good BEFORE you start adding sugar! Don't dump it in there and expect to turn it on and get it up and going with several hundred pounds of sugar in the bottom. It may or may not start. We did see several hundred pounds settle out on a few occasions and it never had a problem starting up with that settled to the bottom, but...


----------



## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

Trying not to get to horribly OT here but why sugar? It spoils here in a cpl of days. I have 1/3 drum that is toast now b/c the honey flow kicked in. Corn Syrup is easier and cheaper. It does not spoil, crystallize, or take any gadgets to prepare. How in the world are you getting sugar so cheap???? Are you calculating the cost of the equipment into the cost per gallon (or tanker load), parts and repairs down the road, starving bees when the tank needs repairs.....see my train of though? Ive spent 4-5hours this weekend dropping a shaft out of one of the mowers in my fleet...pins stuck etc. Was not fun. I did this instead of supering hives inch: seeing what you are doing over there it seems like spare time is not really there....I could be wrong though. 

mike


----------



## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Kingfisher Apiaries said:


> see my train of though? mike


Mike, when your train catches up with mine, we can compare notes. 
Keith


----------



## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

jim lyon said:


> You had Keith the minute you put 1500 gallon tank and Jeep rear end in the same sentence.


That's pretty close Jimmy.


----------



## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

could you answer at least half my questions???? Where, why, how? LOL
Mike


----------



## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Kingfisher Apiaries said:


> Where, why, how? LOL
> Mike


Spell it out for me Mike, I'm move slow this weekend.


----------



## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

Where do you get the sugar at that price
Why LS vs HFCS
Why would you work so hard?


----------



## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Kingfisher Apiaries said:


> Where do you get the sugar at that price
> Why LS vs HFCS
> Why would you work so hard?


1) Mike, the first question I can't answer.

2) Why cane sugar, well it is simply a better feed.

3) the question, why work so hard, nobody workin to hard here Mike. where did that come from?


----------



## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

1) Of course. 
2) Thats debateable
3) Sarcasm is the best thing ever!
Mike


----------



## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Kingfisher Apiaries said:


> 1) 2) Thats debateable
> Mike


No!!!!! It's better. Not cheaper but better.


----------



## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

I believe I saw several good studies that pointed out a marginal benefit of using cane sugar instead of HFCS. The difference was small , but measurable. I guess not all of us can afford the best for our bees.

Crazy Roland


----------



## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Roland said:


> marginal benefit of using cane sugar instead of HFCS. Crazy Roland


Roland, if you want to build bees go with cane, if your on a budget and trying to put weight on go with hfcs. But... with honey prices they way they are.....
Good luck to all this summer with your bees.
Keith


----------



## swarm_trapper (Jun 19, 2003)

give your bees the best and they give you the best! It almost always makes up for the money you put in


----------



## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

And here I was just looking for a auger mixing system, so much for that Idea.  lol


----------



## Action (Jan 8, 2005)

Can't help with the auger but have seen a boat prop in a 2000 gal tank. Seemed to work.
Jack


----------

