# Pigeon Mountain suits



## RRomanko

I was looking at ventilated suits and decided to go with pigeon mountain. Placed my order, which included more than just the suit. Everything looked good, although it did take 3 days for them to fill the order, until I get the confirmation that the order shipped, sans the suit, which was backordered!! No mention of that when I placed my order! So if anyone is looking to place an order from them, beware! Hopefully that will try to do something that will make this right and hopefully I will get the suit soon. When I spoke to them, they said it may be here in two weeks.

rich


----------



## cryptobrian

*Re: Pigeon Mountain issue*

I had a similar experience with an order for a ventilated suit and a youth suit. I received the ventilated suit, but the youth suit went on backorder. The communication was extremely poor and literally took over two months, many emails and phone calls trying to get a reasonable status (it was always "just a couple of weeks"). I ultimately canceled the order, it took another several weeks to get the refund. I received a nice apologetic email with an explanation of "large turn over in personnel".


----------



## RRomanko

*Re: Pigeon Mountain issue*

How long ago was that? They told me that they only have one person doing shipping and were looking for help. They also told me that they were in the process of changing there ordering computer program. With the economy being so bad, who would think that finding help would be so hard?


----------



## cryptobrian

*Re: Pigeon Mountain issue*

June 29th and they advised that that was handling my order quit on May 1st.


----------



## beegeorge

*Re: Pigeon Mountain issue*

before I would slam a company on here, I would seek to find out all about the issue,, for example,, how many here know there was a fire about 6 months ago in one of the primary material plants that supplies fabrics to the beekeeping industry,, this prevented some suppliers from fulfilling orders as fast as they would like,, in addition there has been a MASSIVE infusion of new beekeepers this year exceeding expected suit orders,,

now I agree that suppliers should reflect shortages as soon as known,, I think it is unprofessional to slam on here without TRULY giving them all the options to make a situation right,,

just my 2 cents


----------



## Mr.Beeman

*Re: Pigeon Mountain issue*

No slamming here..... I ordered a bee suit from them in April (around the 14) with them. TWO months later, no suit, no follow up call or e mail, no nothing. I was told when I ordered, the order would ship in 7 - 10 business days. 
I called them and they said it would be another 3 weeks, in which I told them to refund my whole order.
I ordered from betterbee... got here in 7 days.


----------



## RRomanko

*Re: Pigeon Mountain issue*

Why did I need to tell them that I was going to post on here? I called them and told them that I wasn't told that the suit was out of stock when I place my order and that I should have been. Did they tell me that they did not have the suit in stock when I placed my order? Should other people now that when they place an order with them that items may be out of stock but the website does not reflect it? I am not faulting them for being out of stock, I am faulting them for taking so much time in shipping my order and for them not telling me that certain items were out of stock when I placed my order. Had I know that, I would have placed my order elsewhere!


----------



## Mr.Beeman

*Re: Pigeon Mountain issue*

I did convey my dissatisfaction during our conversation and I was more than "upfront" with them. During our conversation, I advised them that communication is a key fundamental for any successful business venture. It was also advised that customer feed back (positive and negative) is also an important business tool to ensure customer satisfaction. 
I also mentioned that I own a successful business for over 17 years with hundreds of repeat cutomers and referrals.
They then told me that they have to order the customer's order and they (PM) order once a week. This puts them at least three weeks behind already. Stock would help them greatly.
They thanked me for my concern and advise.


----------



## beegeorge

*Re: Pigeon Mountain issue*

well we differ in concept,, and I refuse to argue on this site,, I just believe that both sides should have the opportunity to express their position,, ,, end of my input,, you can do as you wish


----------



## cklspencer

*Re: Pigeon Mountain issue*

Sound like I wan't the only one with the same problem from Pigeon Mountain. The suits I orders took two month to get. I was told everytime I called them that they would be in the end of that week for over a month. As of right now I will not buy from them again.


----------



## Captainfester

*Re: Pigeon Mountain issue*

pigeon mtn has the same ability to post on here as anyone else. the OP was a fair account of the facts (assuming it actually happened)


----------



## RRomanko

*Re: Pigeon Mountain issue*

It is a true accounting of the facts and I would love to hear what Pigeon Mountain has to say!


----------



## FindlayBee

*Re: Pigeon Mountain issue*

I ordered a suit for myself and one for my daughter. I placed my order on 4-23-2012. My suit did not ship until 6-8-2012. I have been told as of last week (7-26) my daughter's suit is back ordered for another 2-3 weeks. The suit I am waiting on is item PM9282YS.

Although I am not happy that the suit for my daughter has not yet come in, my emails have been answered within 2 days, most the same day.

The suit I got was made in India in case anyone was wondering.

When my order was placed, I was not told or emailed that any of the items were out of stock. I had send an email asking if they had processed my order. I sent an email on May 7, 2012 to get an updated on the status of my order. On May 8, 2012 I got a message saying my items were on back order. They do not indicate this on their product pages when you order online.


----------



## dragonfly

*Re: Pigeon Mountain issue*



beegeorge said:


> were you up front with Pigeon Mtn, and tell them you would post on here telling of your disatisfaction? if not, you were not up front with them, in my humble opinion



Imo, that wouldn't be appropriate, or good business practice at all. A company shouldn't need to expect that its customers will be spreading bad news about them, in order to provide good service. 
There are always unexpected kinks in any business deal, but the consumer doesn't have the responsibility to threaten the business, which is what I would consider your suggestion.


----------



## RRomanko

*Re: Pigeon Mountain issue*

One other thing, before my items (that were in stock) were shipped and before I found out that the suit was not in stock, I called them up to see if I could add some items to my order. They said that it was too late and that I would have to make another order. They said that I could delete things but not add things. Really????


----------



## FindlayBee

*Re: Pigeon Mountain issue*

My order has now been completed. I arrived home a several minutes ago to find a package on the porch. Inside was my daughters bee suit. I would say they just got a supply of suits in.


----------



## tsk

*Re: Pigeon Mountain issue*

I ordered a full size ventilated suit from them for my daughter. It was shipped I think within a week (this was probably in April). The size ended up being way too small so I returned it for one 2 sizes up which shipped a few days after they got my suit back. Well, turned out I shouldn't have gone 2 sizes up so I ended up returning it one last time and they happily resized it for the size in the middle (again within a few days of ordering). I also then ordered a jacket for myself which came right out too.

I know when i spoke to them in all this the lady mentioned how they didn't have a ton of sizes in at that time. I can't complain about my service from them. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## cerezha

*Re: Pigeon Mountain issue*

My vented suit shipment was quick, but than I realized that it is too big. We called them and they agree to exchange my beesuit and shipment in both directions was on them! It turned out that my new suit was on backorder and I got it 2 months later. But, communication was good. I think, they are not really prepared for popularity of these vented suits and do not shock enough. Also, it is difficult to determine the right size without trying. I would imagine they have a lot of exchanges, which probably messed up their business. Sergey


----------



## RRomanko

*Re: Pigeon Mountain issue*

I hope that mine will ship soon. Did anyone get an email that there suit was in and shipping? Or did it just show up at the door.


----------



## TokerM

*Re: Pigeon Mountain issue*

For those of you that got your orders from PM, a few questions:

How would you asses the quality? Solid stitching, good zippers, etc...

Are they made in America or elsewhere? I thought I saw someone mention India, but looking at their site it seems to imply in-house manufacturing. (Material is most likely overseas, I was hoping for American fabrication.)

They have almost unbelievable prices for clothing, and I am worried about quality loss for price savings. I would like to have extra jackets for visitors and helpers, but I'm not excited about spending close to $200 for things that will simply sit in my truck.

I'm going under the impression that supply problems are mostly due to the tsunami of new keepers in the hobby, so things will even out in the industry within about the next 6 months (giving supply chain bottlenecks.) As people are getting orders, all-be-it late, PM doesn't seem like it's going the honey stick machine route, they just got overwhelmed.


----------



## Slow Modem

*Re: Pigeon Mountain issue*



TokerM said:


> For those of you that got your orders from PM, a few questions:
> 
> How would you asses the quality? Solid stitching, good zippers, etc...
> 
> Are they made in America or elsewhere?  I thought I saw someone mention India, but looking at their site it seems to imply in-house manufacturing. (Material is most likely overseas, I was hoping for American fabrication.)


I went to their store in Georgia and bought my suit. It made a good day trip. I am pleased with the quality. I wish it had zippers in the legs so it would go over boots. It is made in India. I prefer the round veil to the fencing veil (I tried both).

http://gregsbees.blogspot.com/2012/03/day-trip-to-pigeon-mountain-trading.html

http://gregsbees.blogspot.com/2012/03/correcting-oversight.html


----------



## cerezha

*Re: Pigeon Mountain issue*



TokerM said:


> For those of you that got your orders from PM, a few questions:


I got full breathable suit with round veil, size L (183 cm, 78 kg)

*How would you asses the quality? * ==> quality is good. I did not find any serious flaws in assembly and stitching. I wish it has better design - it does not have zippers at legs and veil-to-suit zipper needs some understanding. All zippers are bronze (yellow whichever it is) and works great, no problem at all. I definitely like round veil better (tried both) - a lot of air, do not restrain in movements. I wish material for "hat" (upper part) would be thicker.

*Are they made in America or elsewhere? * ===> assembled in India, thus cheaper than other brands.

*I'm going under the impression that supply problems are mostly due to the tsunami of new keepers in the hobby* ==> yes, I agree. I personally had very good experience with them, but they are overwhelmed and probably just small business - they are not designed for large quantities. Sergey


----------



## RRomanko

*Re: Pigeon Mountain issue*

Thought that I would post a follow-up. I contact PM after two weeks to see if the suits came in yet. I did this via email and got a pretty quick response, they might come in 2 weeks, maybe longer. I checked and they did have the jacket in my size and decided to go that route. The did respond to my emails on a very timely basis but not with the news I wanted. By the way, no discount on the jacket, but did promise to refund the price difference.


----------



## Satch

*Re: Pigeon Mountain issue*

Ordered a vented suit back in June and several other items. At the time, I was not told that items were backordered. Also had given an alternate shipping destination for a gift extractor for dad. The shipping took about 5-7 days to be packaged and shipped. Then the items showed up at my home not dad's. Got the suit and most of the stuff about a week later than planned, and just a couple of weeks ago got the last of the order shipped. 

All said, the suit is great (less the zippered legs). and yes, I will be doing business again. Just don't be in a hurry.


----------



## cerezha

*Re: Pigeon Mountain issue*

Usual story with backordering, but nice people... they replaced mine suit, no shipping charges both ways!
By the way,I actually got stung through super-duper bullet-proof PM vented suit! In pit-arm. I guess, girl get lost in the fabric folding and when I stretch the arm and fabric stretched - girl was pushed toward my flesh and she did not wait a second! Sergey


----------



## mythomane

*Re: Pigeon Mountain issue*

Just tested out my Pigeon Mountain suit and here is the down low:
Circumvented any backordering problems by just calling them and had the saleswoman go to the shelf and put my suit in a box. She then took my cc over the phone. On my doorstep in 3 days. Looked good and put it on. Zippers are cheap, but seem to work ok. The veil top is a thin fabric. You will get stung through it, so wear a hat. You probably should anyway to keep the screen off your nose. Worked well on a 4 hour cut-out. Elastic around wrists a little loose, but not a deal breaker. No elastic at all on the legs, but the velcro strap seemed to work well enough. Pockets way better than the Ultrabreeze - larger and better made. Was pretty satisfied until I went to take it off. Peeled to my boots and then no go. No zippers on the sides of the legs. Had to take my boots off. Then had to do the whole thing again an hour later. Not happy about that. It is around half the cost, but is a pain if you have to get in and out. Otherwise, ok. 6'2" 180 and extra large fits well.


----------



## cerezha

*Re: Pigeon Mountain issue*

o.


mythomane said:


> ... Circumvented any backordering problems by just calling them ... Looked good and put it on. Zippers ... seem to work ok. The veil top is a thin fabric. You will get stung through it, so wear a hat. ... Elastic around wrists a little loose, but not a deal breaker. No elastic at all on the legs, but the velcro strap seemed to work well enough. ... *Was pretty satisfied until I went to take it off. *Peeled to my boots and then no go. No zippers on the sides of the legs. Had to take my boots off. Then had to do the whole thing again an hour later. Not happy about that. It is around half the cost, but is a pain if you have to get in and out. Otherwise, ok. 6'2" 180 and extra large fits well.


 Have exactly the same experience. The biggest issue is the absents of the zippers on the side ot the legs. On the positive side, I have to add that it survived a few warm water washes without veil AND drier on delicate. Also, if somebody did not notice - one could unzip a main zipper from the bottom - no need to unzip everything if one need to pee - I guess, this may be attaractive for boys only.


----------



## mythomane

*Re: Pigeon Mountain issue*

Update: You definitely will get stung through the top. 15 stings on the forehead to prove it. Wear a cap!


----------



## cerezha

*Re: Pigeon Mountain issue*



mythomane said:


> Update: You definitely will get stung through the top. 15 stings on the forehead to prove it. Wear a cap!


 Yes, have the same issue, but only one sting. Also, apparently, it is not bee-proof if forgot to zip the veil!


----------



## Slow Modem

*Re: Pigeon Mountain issue*

Are we talking round or fencing type veils? I got the fencing type and didn't like it because it couldn't see as well and I don't think it was ventilated as well. I am much happier with the round veil.


----------



## matt1954

*Re: Pigeon Mountain issue*

Slow Moden, did you purchase the round veil for the ventilated suit from Pigeon or someone else. i have the fencing veil and every time i bend down, I wind up getting stung on the nose, lips, face, neck.....etc.. 

I want to get the round veil.


----------



## cerezha

*Re: Pigeon Mountain issue*



matt1954 said:


> Slow Moden, did you purchase the round veil for the ventilated suit from Pigeon...


 Matt, yes, I did. I ordered first the suit with fencing veil and find it uncomfortable, so I replaced the whole thing and get round veil, which as stated before has an inconvenience that top has made from thin material, which bees could penetrate easily. For round veil you need to ask them for catalog number - it is not on the WEB-site as far as I remember. Also, I do not think that veils are interchangeable. Good luck


----------



## Slow Modem

*Re: Pigeon Mountain issue*



matt1954 said:


> Slow Moden, did you purchase the round veil for the ventilated suit from Pigeon or someone else. i have the fencing veil and every time i bend down, I wind up getting stung on the nose, lips, face, neck.....etc..
> 
> I want to get the round veil.


I got the suit with the fencing veil (I went to the store in GA and bought it off the shelf). But as I said I didn't like the fencing veil. So I ordered the round veil from PM. It fits great and I like it a lot better.

http://www.pigeonmountaintrading.com/Category/1-22636-ventilated-bee-wear.aspx


PMTC Ventilated Round Hood Veil Replacement
PM9262R

Weight: 1 lb(s)
Model: PM9262R


----------



## Larry Horton

*Re: Pigeon Mountain issue*

Place you a order with them like I did and then see if you will take up for them after


----------



## max2

*Re: Pigeon Mountain issue*

I purchased a ventilated suit ( round veil) last year from PM.
I wear it without a shirt under it and just in shorts. It is much cooler IF there is a breeze/ In still conditions there is not a huge difference.
I have been stung in the head and now rub some herbal salve on the material which so far has kept bees away.
The zipper does not look very strong. I use beeswax to help it glide.
Also purchased two Ventilated suits from Mann Lake ( I like the fact that they are an Employee Owned Company). I had feedback from one wearer as yet and he loves it: " much cooler"


----------



## matt1954

*Re: Pigeon Mountain issue*

I bought the ventilated suit from Mannlake with a fencing veil. Kept getting stung in the face so I ordered the round veil from Pigeon Mountain. It fit perfectly and the sting in the face issue has been resolved. Need to wear a hat with it, however. From the time I ordered the replacement veils for my wife and I, to receipt was one week.


----------



## mythomane

*Re: Pigeon Mountain issue*

NEW UPDATE! Went to buy a new suit and Pigeon Mountain has raised their price on this suit $50 to $175! Plus Shipping! Checked Mann Lake and its $155, free shipping, and there are zippers on the ankles so that you can actually get it off. Never tried the Mann Lake but it looks like I am going to. Will post again when it arrives.


----------



## Daniel Y

*Re: Pigeon Mountain issue*



RRomanko said:


> One other thing, before my items (that were in stock) were shipped and before I found out that the suit was not in stock, I called them up to see if I could add some items to my order. They said that it was too late and that I would have to make another order. They said that I could delete things but not add things. Really????


That probably has more to do with how their record keeping works. You woudl not have been able to add items to an order with me either. there was no way for me to add items myself to the order and get paid for them.


----------



## Daniel Y

*Re: Pigeon Mountain issue*

I have gotten products from India once. It took 8 months. I will never deal with India suppliers again. They do not accept US dollars either. Huge pain. The reason I was given is that the currency exchange can change to much between the time the order is placed and it is filled. given that is 2 thirds of a year. yeah I guess it can.

Oops maybe I should have contacted the Indian government before slamming their businesses?

I say tighten it up and get it together. then I will say nice things about your service. fail to fill orders and I will tell others. The businesses had their say when they took payment for an item that they chose to offer for sale. it is then reasonably expected they will conduct them selves in a manner that provides satisfactory service.They have been paid for it after all. Nobody twisted their arm to offer a product for sale.


----------

