# Warre Modifications



## Stlnifr (Sep 12, 2010)

Just been reading and thinking and would like to ask a couple questions. Question 1. Is a quilt system and roof system as in the Warre Hive beneficial to the bees Question 2. also what is the absolutely smallest entrance the bees can use as in a hole year round? Modification would be to the size of the box and the entrance to the hive. I like the idea of a Warre Hive but a tad smaller inside measurements 11” square and outside 12 ½ square using 3/8 bee space using 8 bars 1” and 11 ¾ inches long with boxes built from 1 X 8’s 7.25 high. You can build two boxes from an 8 foot board. The Warre seems as close to a bee tree as I can get with modern construction and staying simple. Less disturbing the bees all natural combs well maintain brood nest with warmth staying constant to bees liking. They will be able to set up home to their liking as far as drawing drone comb, brood comb and honey storage. The Peoples Hive sounds like a good idea but with a slight modification to size and maybe to entrance; bees in a bee tree usually work from the top down so adding boxes on the bottom sounds like a good idea also am empty box at the bottom will give a place for trash to fall “IE whatever bees throw out” and easier for the bees to remove. Shooting for treatment free bees so time will tell if this is a good system for the bee to be able to maintain life using what nature gave the bees survival of the fittest maybe what we need. I am sure it will be hard to establish but time will tell and I will enjoy myself trying to establish treatment free bees. I have enjoyed reading about all the different man made hives but seem to be drawn back to the Warre Hive. Not sure if this is for everyone but I can say it is for a few I included and it does seem to mimic a bee tree. I have not started building yet still in design mode but getting close.


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

The idea that bees in a tree cavity always work from the top down is incorrect. I know of three. long-term feral hives in trees within a few miles of my house. One has a top entrance, the other an entrance from below and the third is in a horizontal cavity in a blow down. Scout bees go in and explore all kind of cavities. When my bees lived in the walls of the barn they also worked (two out of three) from a lower hole upwards. eventually after decades of use, additional knot holes and places where the bees enlarged smaller holes resulted in two-entrance cavities - one up and one down.

My colonies with top entrances variously carry the trash out through the top entrance; or dump it to the floor; or save it and carry it out when I open the bottom entrance once in a while. That changes over the course of the year, too.

I use and really like quilt boxes on my hives. Last year I keep them on all summer, albeit with little insulation in the hot months. One (ot of four hives) simply chewed thrgh the muslin (working up in this instance and drew comb from the underside of the telecover. Very naughty bees! Qulit boxes take some work to make so I don't like having them chewed to pieces.

Almost all new beekeepers want to be TF, but many decide that it's not worth losing their colonies just to make the point. I know that's how I feel. I'm not in this to do some kind of evolutionary experiment - I want to learn how to keep my bees in thriving, healthy, and long-lived colonies. Eerything else is secondary to me. So I treat for varroa with the "softest" chemicals that work: formic and oxalic acids and concentrated thymol.

Learning to how to take care of bees is challenging enough without hobbling yourself with some idealogical dogma. I know people around here who have lost their bees every year for more than half a decade. While admire their stick-to-i-tiveness in getting new bees every spring, I really don't see the point of that.

BTW, all my bees are from swarms. Some no doubt from other beekeepers, but othersfrom the abundant feral populations around here. Before I had bees I had feral honeybees living in my barn walls for twenty years.

The anwser to your question about entrance size: I have booming hives with four deep boxes stacked up, (which is LOT of bees) or larger and they use (at most) a 1" diameter hole in the summer. I have smaller holes on the bottom and ample screened-in ventilation above the quilt boxes. I use shims for the locations of the entrance holes.

I lso am not using Warres, I use regular 10-frame Langs.

Enj.


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## Jim Brewster (Dec 17, 2014)

I am interested in trying Warre hives, as well as horizontal hives too. But I decided to start with 8-frame Langs this year, which I'm managing in somewhat of a Warre style. That is to say I am going mostly foundationless, and putting new boxes on the bottom (nadiring). However during the current nectar flow, I felt the need to put a box on top as well, as I was concerned about the brood chamber becoming honey-bound. And yes, Warre wrote about supering as well as nadiring. 

The concept of bees building from the top down applies to empty cavities. Once there is drawn comb the brood nest will move wherever there is suitable comb for the queen to lay in. The Warre hive concept seems to be about cycling the comb off the top and adding free space to the bottom, so the brood nest will move down during the spring & summer, and back up during the winter. But in a feral hive bees will reuse old comb for much longer, and moths will utilize the areas where the bees aren't actively excluding them. When the bees go back to those areas they will repair or replace the comb that the moths destroyed. 

A natural tree cavity is dynamic, with areas opening or being closed off as the tree decays, perhaps animals nest in them, etc. Bees have adapted to deal with all these contingencies, and also adapt to the manipulations we beekeepers impose on them with varying degrees of success. One of the keys for me has been to understand the bees' behavior and instincts, and try to work with them instead of against them. There are some times when nadiring makes sense, other times when supering makes more sense.


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## jadebees (May 9, 2013)

The spacing inside a Warre hive is pretty exacting. (By bees not us). If your boxes are smaller you'll have the bees make 2 or 3 combs and by the 3rd topbar they will build comb on the edge of a bar. And the 4th bar will be very cross combed. Its a very common problem when I have made a 1 -1/4" bee spaced hive to favor feral/ AHB. honeybees. Its great till you get a larger body size European type wild bee. I find the mess and poor build of the comb is not worth the space you'll save. You'll have less trouble with brace and cross combs if you stick to the standard size and 1 3/8" beespace. It's about the only critical dimension in Warre hives. And not so easy to fix, in Warre hives. The Africanised hybrids I catch around here have to adapt, not the boxes. Good luck with your boxes. I make all my hives.


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## Stlnifr (Sep 12, 2010)

To err on the safe side I will go with my 11 3/8 inches square inside measurements it should work out ok. That will allow 3/8 bee space between eight 1 inch top bars. Frame width of 1 1/8 or 1 1/4 or 1 3/8 is an interesting subject so is top bar width of 7/8 or 1 inch it is also interesting that the standard of 1 3/8 is universally excepted. I am not interested in pulling frames or taking honey from the bees just trying to give them the best hive I can that will work to there benefit. Not wanting to cause them a hardship on warming the hive or covering the brood. So I do worry that 3/8 bee space may be a tad bit wide but then again I would rather err on the safe side. I do think that Warre at 11 13/16 inch is to wide that is 7/16 larger than what the math works out to using 3/8 bee space with 1 inch bars.


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