# HELP. Installed package, I have a dead queen. What to do.



## Brinebee (Mar 16, 2014)

I tried calling the place I got them from and all I got was answering service. Please any advice would be helpful. I have no idea what to do.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Please tell us something about this.

How do you know the queen is dead, it's still in the cage, or what?

Do you have more than one hive?

Could there be a second queen in the hive? Happens occasionally


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## Brinebee (Mar 16, 2014)

I just have one hive right now. Queen was in the cage. She wasn't moving. I released her onto my glove she didn't move.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

The one hive is the package with the dead queen?

If so, persist with attempting to contact the package vendor and have them send a new queen pronto. If there is no queen, the package bees will dwindle away fairly quickly.

Other possibility, there could be a loose queen in the package which is why the queen in the cage died. See what happens, ie, if the bees stick around, build comb, and have eggs laid in it. But in any case time is of the essence if it's queenless so still ask them for a replacement queen.


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## mark williams (Jan 19, 2003)

By any change does anyone around you have bees? If so maybe you can find a queen local.
Or at least some brood,Most bk's would be glad to help.
As Oldtimer said, time is not on your side.


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## Brinebee (Mar 16, 2014)

There is really no beekeepers near me that I know of. How long wil they last without a queen? And if I can get a queen , any type of queen will that work. I tried contacting vendor all I get is answering service.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

try: http://www.sebcbees.com/
http://www.catskillbees.org/
http://www.southerntierbeekeepers.org/

I know Dutchess county and westchester county have active bee groups but don't have
the contact info handy.


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## Brinebee (Mar 16, 2014)

Thanks @clyderoad. I'll try contacting them


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

I just remembered that
mann lake has a new store and package bee/queen bee pick at the PA location in
Wilkes-Barre, PA. That's probably not too far to travel for pick-up if they can help with a queen (maybe they have some extras left over from today's bee pick-up).
But make the arrangements with them before going as they are by order only.


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## tommysnare (Jan 30, 2013)

Brinebee said:


> I tried calling the place I got them from and all I got was answering service. Please any advice would be helpful. I have no idea what to do.


i havent checked but, sometimes u can find people selling queens on the for sale link here on Beesource. u DO need a queen asap !


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## Brinebee (Mar 16, 2014)

That is where i got my package from today. Tried calling them numerous times I just get the answering service. And @tommysnare I'll try on here. I didn't think of that. Thanks


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

Oldtimer said: 
"Other possibility, there could be a loose queen in the package which is why the queen in the cage died. See what happens, ie, if the bees stick around, build comb, and have eggs laid in it. But in any case time is of the essence if it's queenless so still ask them for a replacement queen."

I agree with his statement. There could be a loose queen in the package.


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## Brinebee (Mar 16, 2014)

Ok. I hope you guys are right about that. I'll keep checking the hive. How many days should i wait and see/ check if there is comb before i should get a queen?


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## ralfonzetti (Mar 24, 2014)

I think Anarchy Apiaries is a bit north of your area... I tried reaching out one time and never heard back, but I know Sam Comfort is super busy. at least worth trying to reach out.


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## Bill91143 (Jun 7, 2013)

Brinebee said:


> Ok. I hope you guys are right about that. I'll keep checking the hive. How many days should i wait and see/ check if there is comb before i should get a queen?


If I were in your shoes I would try again in the morning (Monday) to contact your package supplier. If I couldn't contact them I would then order a queen from some of the suppliers on the net. You do still have 4 or 5 days to get a queen. Which is enough time to get a queen shipped from anywhere in the lower 48. Then I would continue to try and contact the supplier for some sort of compensation for the dead queen, but right now, your main concern is to save your package of bees. I do know that Walter T. Kelley had some bees left over yesterday when they closed. Call them early tomorrow before someone beats you to it, and they may be able to help you I think they open at 8:00 AM central time.


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## Brinebee (Mar 16, 2014)

I tried twice this morning still got answering service. The service gave me the run around. I know it's not their fault. So now I must move on. I'm going to really think 3 times before I use that company again.


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## mahobee (Apr 24, 2013)

I would also try Hudson Valley Bees. when I had a similar problem, and I exhausted all my local options, I called Olivarez in Calif. and they overnighted me a queen. The queen was $25, shipping was $37! But it worked. I wouldn't wait too long though.


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## Bill91143 (Jun 7, 2013)

Brinebee said:


> I tried twice this morning still got answering service. The service gave me the run around. I know it's not their fault. So now I must move on. I'm going to really think 3 times before I use that company again.


Get you a queen ordered from somewhere tomorrow. I know Kelly had 3 packages of bees left over when they closed yesterday. If you can't do anything else, buy one of their packages in the morning and combine it with yours. At least you will have one very powerful hive to start with. Bees are scares this year so call Kellys early, because I'm sure their bees will go very quickly. I told you wrong earlier. They open at 8:00AM Eastern time instead of central. I would start calling around 7:30 just incase someone get in early.


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## bkristanne (Sep 25, 2013)

Last summer, my first beehive ever, I had a queen cage that was open. The screen was no stapled good and completely lifted back, so I figured she may had been in the hive somewhere. I watched my hive for two weeks and the huddle just got smaller and smaller. I finally got a new queen, had them accept her and everything was fine from there on. You have time, don't worry! They won't all die that quickly.


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## Brinebee (Mar 16, 2014)

Thank you for some optimism @bkristanne.


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## bkristanne (Sep 25, 2013)

No problem! I've been there...


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## G3farms (Jun 13, 2009)

Long shot but might even try craigslist. I know there are several keeps around here, including me that sell nucs and queens every now and then.


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## Brinebee (Mar 16, 2014)

I tried craigslist but nothing around here at le ast until early may


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## Brinebee (Mar 16, 2014)

Just checked on my hive. There were about 20 news flying around the entrance of the hive.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Are they building comb? Depending how much, that could be a sign they have a queen.


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## Brinebee (Mar 16, 2014)

I didn't open it. I'll open it later in the day.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

If there is any comb, take a careful look & see if there are eggs in it. Eggs are real small you have to look carefully.

It's an outside chance but sometimes when the cage queen is dead it's because the package had a loose queen in it.

Also the behaviour of the bees, if they are extremely flighty could indicate there is no queen.


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## Brinebee (Mar 16, 2014)

I looked in the hive. The bees were on the foundations. The bees barely made any comb. I mean I had to really look hard. I STILL HAVE NO QUEEN. should be here tomorrow. The bees don't look good. Will the bees make comb without a queen.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

You haven't mentioned anything about feeding them syrup. If you aren't offering syrup, consider doing that.


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## Brinebee (Mar 16, 2014)

Yes I have been feeding 1:1 syrup. Since Saturday.


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## bkristanne (Sep 25, 2013)

When I didn't have a queen, my bees made a little comb. They could cover it all though, so it was hard to see. My grandpas hive had a ton of comb compared to mine, so I knew something was up. Good luck with your new queen! I'm sure you're hive will be just fine with her


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Yup, sounds like there's no queen, ought to be able to put the new one straight in ( in it's cage) and let the bees release it via the candy, don't direct release it.


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## Bill91143 (Jun 7, 2013)

Brinebee said:


> I looked in the hive. The bees were on the foundations. The bees barely made any comb. I mean I had to really look hard. I STILL HAVE NO QUEEN. should be here tomorrow. The bees don't look good. Will the bees make comb without a queen.


You say you have a queen on the way? Where did you find her?


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## Brinebee (Mar 16, 2014)

I'm getting my new queen from the supplier that I got my package from.


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## JakeDatc (Apr 19, 2010)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RX3BgnOkozs might want to try this before you stick it in there to be sure.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I don't think I ever got a package with a queen dead in the cage that didn't have a queen loose in the package. She is often a virgin. She may not be laying for two weeks after you install them. If I were a gambler I would bet you have a queen.


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## Brinebee (Mar 16, 2014)

I will try that when I get when I get home. Thabks


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I don't think I ever got a package with a queen dead in the cage that didn't have a queen loose in the package.

I should have said "ever got a package that was in otherwise good shape, with a queen dead..." I have had some where almost all the bees were dead and the queen was dead. I doubt there was another queen in those...


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## Brinebee (Mar 16, 2014)

I got my queen today. I came with attendants. Should I just put iit in the hive like it is. Also what can I put in place of the cork. Sothey can eat thru to release the queen


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## Gilligan (May 8, 2013)

Take the attendants out, use a marshmallow.

(All stolen from much wiser men than me)


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## Brinebee (Mar 16, 2014)

How do you take the attendants out


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Just a point about that, I no longer advise new beekeepers I sell queens too, to remove the attendants. Have had so many disasters such as the queen escaping, getting her head chopped off, etc, that it is safer to get them to put the cage in as is. Acceptance is not markedly worse if the escorts are still in there.

But what sort of cage is it? Is there no candy in or with it? One way or another the queen should be in with the bees but confined in the cage for 2 days before the bees release her so they have time to get to know each other.


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## Brinebee (Mar 16, 2014)

Wooden cage with candy


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

OK well if there is around an inch of candy between the hive bees and the queen compartment it will take the bees 2 days to chew through & release her so remove any cork or whatever that is blocking the hive bees access to the candy and put in the hive to allow the bees to start releasing the queen.

As per Gilligan you may release the attendants if you wish, some people do, just, with all the queens I have had to replace to people due to accidents during the process I no longer recommend new beekeepers to do it.

Also as per Mike Bush you may well have a virgin in the package. However as a new beekeeper with no other bees, it will be quite difficult for you to determine that. So since you have the queen, may as well go ahead and install, see what happens. If the queen is killed because a virgin is present, the virgin herself may mate successfully and start laying in the next week or two. After the queen install just leave them totally alone for at least 5 days, other than to re-stock syrup if they need it.


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## Gilligan (May 8, 2013)

Couldn't he go with the Michael Palmer method of checking?

Lay the queen cage on top of the frames and see how they react to her?

He has a video on youtube that demonstrates them immediately loving on the cage desperate for a queen. I'd imagine with a virgin in there they would still bite at the cage and try to kill her.

Again, I'm the opposite of you "newtimer", so I am speaking COMPLETELY hypothetical/theoretical.


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## Bill91143 (Jun 7, 2013)

Gilligan said:


> Take the attendants out, use a marshmallow.
> 
> (All stolen from much wiser men than me)


I don't like using marshmallow. I have killed 2 queens with marshmallows. The marshmallow gets to sticky and my queens got stuck up in the sticky marshmallow goo. I would just leave the cork in for 4 days, then I would pull the cork and hand release her.


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## Brinebee (Mar 16, 2014)

I put the queen cage in. They immediately went to the cage. They didn't go for the candy. They were all on the screen. I had the cage wedged between foundations then it fell. I got pissed I turned the cage so I could see the screen they were all on top. I couldn't watch anymore. My PTSD was getting to the point of me bashing the hive. I had to walk away. If this queen doesn't make it. I am going to go nuts. I need help badly. No matter what I read it doesn't match what I am doing in real life I just need to relax.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Agree with your post Gilligan, only reason I didn't suggest it was to try not to overcomplicate, however I did not know there was a youtube video on it which would help.

Brinebee could watch the video then use that to determine whether he has a virgin & whether to go looking for it, if he wishes, and after he has sorted his mental state.


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## Brinebee (Mar 16, 2014)

They just hovered on thscreen. I thought they would go and eat the candy right away.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>They just hovered on thscreen. I thought they would go and eat the candy right away. 

The bees don't actually know that eating the candy will free the queen until they get a hole where they can smell her there... until then they are just eating candy...

You might prepare yourself for the possibility that there is a queen in there and they will kill this one. I would not remove the attendants. That is not really the issue. It's a loose queen that is the issue of whether or not they will accept her.


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## franktrujillo (Jan 22, 2009)

i just had that problem where the queen and attendants were dead in the package.installed them anyway with the dead queen so they would not get pissed and become laying workers supplier sent me a new queen of course i had to pay for the shipping.3 days later today i removed the dead queen and put the new caged queen in with cork so they cant release her right away.so in 6 to 9 days i let her out.


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## Brinebee (Mar 16, 2014)

I placed the queen in the hive. I removed the cork. Now it is up to the bees to what they want to do.


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## JakeDatc (Apr 19, 2010)

JakeDatc said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RX3BgnOkozs might want to try this before you stick it in there to be sure.


reposting the video for the folks who missed it. it is pretty well explained and shows what is going on.


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## Brinebee (Mar 16, 2014)

When I put the queen cage in the hive the bees were acting like the video buzzing, and flapping their wings the same way.


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## JakeDatc (Apr 19, 2010)

hopefully it'll be good to go then. happy to have her.


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## Gilligan (May 8, 2013)

JakeDatc said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RX3BgnOkozs might want to try this before you stick it in there to be sure.


Yeah,that's the video I was referring to.


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## Brinebee (Mar 16, 2014)

Installed the queen this afternoon. I hadthecage in thehive for 3 days. The bees ate thruthecandy but didn't Come out. So I peeled back the screen and dumped them in the hive. Waited a little bit to see if anything significant would happen......... Nothing happen differently so I closed the hive. Hopefully everything goes smooth sailing from here.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

How's it going now?


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## Brinebee (Mar 16, 2014)

It is going ok. Thanks for following up. After I released the queen. There was a short period after that I thought the queen was killed. The hive was really loud I just kept feeding them I kept checking on them and about 4 days ago I saw them making comb. Also I pulled a foundation yesterdaY, and I saw the queen. The hive is slowly moving forward. Maybe cause ithasbeen cold out. I just have to be patient. Hopefully everything is working out. My hive is slowly going in the right direction.


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## Brinebee (Mar 16, 2014)

I checked the cells today I saw a clear liquid in the cells. Some of the other cells I think are filled with honey. The comb is really white.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Cool! Sound like you are in business!!


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## Brinebee (Mar 16, 2014)

Yeah. It just took some time and some learning.


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## McBee7 (Dec 25, 2013)

Brinebee said:


> I checked the cells today I saw a clear liquid in the cells. Some of the other cells I think are filled with honey. The comb is really white.


Glad to see things are working out Brinebee--
I installed 12 packages on the same day you did and I had the same scenario in one of the packages,,,so,,,
I combined the queenless package with a queen rite package and had to wait another 3 days for the queenless
bees to get used to the new queen, then do the release---Things went just fine but now I only have 11 hives and 1 is a 6 pound starter....lol....My supplier said he'd send me a new queen whenever I wanted it and I said May 3,,,,I'll make a split then and use up the new queen on that.....This wasn't the plan, but I've learned to be flexible in this bee business, and things arn't always the way you plan it....

==McBee7==


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## Brinebee (Mar 16, 2014)

Yes. I am learning patience, something little I have.


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## Redbug (Feb 8, 2014)

I am a new beekeeper, too. One thing I am learning...is the bees always know what's best for them to survive, it's just us humans that have to figure out what needs to be done on bee time.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>One thing I am learning...is the bees always know what's best for them to survive, it's just us humans that have to figure out what needs to be done on bee time. 

That isn't always true, though. When they are hopelessly queenless and suddenly a laying queen shows up, this is not exactly a natural situation and they don't always have time to make the right decision (let their only hope for a queen live). Some aggressive workers may kill her before they get used to her... so sometimes, you have to slow things down so they can make the right decision... things such as a candy release or a push in cage...


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## Redbug (Feb 8, 2014)

That's a good point...I did not think of that. That's something that would not happen in the wild I suppose...because a wild colony without human intervention would try to raise a new queen from scratch and be used to her when she emerges.


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