# If you could start again, what size would you standardise on?



## SB-Russ (Apr 10, 2015)

Hi All,

Still trying to decide what size Hives & Frames I want to standardise on, and I realise there is no right or wrong answer. I've seen opinions scattered throughout posts here, but I was hoping to get a range of opinions in one place.

So the question is, knowing what you know now, and if you could start all over again, ignoring honey yield or equipment cost, what size would you standardise on - Medium, Shallow or Half Depth frames & Supers?

Thanks.
Russell.


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

8 frame deeps


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

I did start over again, to all mediums.


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## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

Mike Gillmore said:


> all mediums.


Me, too.


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## Matt F (Oct 7, 2014)

for noncommercial I just don't understand why not use all deep frames. The weight isn't an issue for me but if it is you don't have to move the whole box at once, you can take out the frames. I'd rather not have the break in the middle of the brood chamber. So 10-frame deeps for brood box at a minimum, for me.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Well... I started out on deeps and shallows (26 years doing that). Then I started over on all deeps (1 year). Then I started over on all mediums (1 year). Then I started over on all eight frame mediums (13 years). I intend to stay with that. At least until I can't lift the boxes... then maybe eight frame shallows...


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## AR Beekeeper (Sep 25, 2008)

I would use the deepest size I could get for the brood nest and a shallow or medium for the surplus honey supers, depending on the type nectar flows in the area.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

I would use all one size to include honey supers.


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## Cyan (Jan 27, 2015)

Currently using all mediums. I may move to 8 frame boxes next year but I like the 10 frame boxes I have. Undecided I guess, but will all be mediums.


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## Bee Bliss (Jun 9, 2010)

We started out with all 10 frame mediums for brood boxes and honey supers. Solved a bunch of problems before they existed............uniformity, weight, easier to do foundationless, comb honey.


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## MTN-Bees (Jan 27, 2014)

I think I would switch from 10 frame to 8 frame woodenware.


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## emrude (Mar 23, 2015)

This is one of my retirement hobbies. I went for 8 frame mediums. I used to be able to lift 100 pounds. Now I have a bad back and the idea of dropping hundreds of stinging insects just does seem like a good time, so I downsized.


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## SB-Russ (Apr 10, 2015)

Thanks for the feedback. Interesting results so far, although probably what I'd have expected from other posts I've read. A little surpirsed on the number who wouldn't standardise though. It'd be intersting to see the figures split between commercial vs hobby setups.

I'm surprised no one has chosen half. While cost, by my calculations is 1.8x and production about 80% of a deep for two half bixes, I'd have thought the benefits of interchangeability with deeps would ahve persuaded some. two halfs fitting in one extractor basket vs other non-deep sizes, and half cost foundation if splitting deep foundation in two vs custom size cost for others sizes, and of course weight is the least of all sizes.


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## ericweller (Jan 10, 2013)

rwurster said:


> 8 frame deeps


Me too!


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

SB-Russ said:


> It'd be intersting to see the figures split between commercial vs hobby setups.


I agree, that would be interesting.

If I had to guess, I would bet that 90% of those who use all mediums are hobbyists, or sideliners, with a few commercial guys in my age group thrown in the mix.


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## ChuckReburn (Dec 17, 2013)

8 frame. I tried doing all mediums but couldn't get out of deeps. We do removals where the cut comb better fits a deep and take in hot hives, which inevitably are in double deeps and get split 4 ways. I've got rid of any 10 frame equipment though, that was driving me crazy trying to keep track of what size box I needed.


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## beesohappy (Jun 3, 2009)

I would consider myself more than a hobbist and if I had no worries of money then I'd go with 8 frame deeps with wood frames and white waxed plastic foundation.


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## dsquared (Mar 6, 2006)

I'm gradually switching to all mediums. I still have a lot of deeps and shallows, but all I'm buying are mediums.


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

After going through Nucs again this weekend, I think if I was starting over again I'd go with all 5 frame deep nucs. They are a breeze to check, easy to find the queen in, and bees seem to thrive in them.


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## Colobee (May 15, 2014)

Mike Gillmore said:


> I did start over again, to all mediums.


Me too. 

Stayed with all mediums. 'Might move to 8 frame supers over 10 frame broods.


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## SB-Russ (Apr 10, 2015)

dsquared said:


> I'm gradually switching to all mediums. I still have a lot of deeps and shallows, but all I'm buying are mediums.


So any comments on why you're not just going with shallows?

I'd be really keen to hear why people don't like anything less than mediums. Is it purely yield and cost, or are there other reasons people don't like the smaller sizes?


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## jdmidwest (Jul 9, 2012)

This should have been a 8 frame vs 10 frame debate. I am all in on 8 frames.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

I'd probably do 8 frame. Right now I'm with 10 framers (deeps and mediums)..... I can still handle those. It's almost never that I need to PU a heavy deep and if the mediums are too high and too heavy, I just remove some frames ........or if one of my daughter's boyfriends is around and looking to impress, I'm not above shagging him for the heavy work!


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## BadBeeKeeper (Jan 24, 2015)

snl said:


> ...if one of my daughter's boyfriends is around and looking to impress, I'm not above shagging him for the heavy work!


If that's what you do when somebody helps you out, I'd hate to see what you do when somebody ticks you off!


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I'd be really keen to hear why people don't like anything less than mediums. Is it purely yield and cost, or are there other reasons people don't like the smaller sizes?

Things available in medium but not available in shallow depth:
Plastic frames (any size, but particularly small cell)
Plastic foundation
Frame feeders
Small cell wax foundation
Wired wax foundation
Wax drone foundation
Plastic drone foundation
PermaComb
Honey Super Cell (although the medium available is cut down from deeps, I'm pretty sure)

There are probably others.


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## seapro220 (Mar 14, 2013)

I've standardized in double deeps for brood boxes and mediums for everything else. Had a brain fart and built some shallows..what a pain now and am fazing them out. Have a local guy who will trade me some undrawn shallow for medium wax foundation so that's a bonus. I'm planning on going with 1-deep and a medium for the brood boxes at the end of this year and then it'll only be mediums from now own. after a few years of bee keeping, I'm beginning to believe MB had it right (in his book) about standardizing on a single size - and sticking with it. the Nuc's I sell this year are in deeps, but next year will be in mediums.


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## rniles (Oct 10, 2012)

8 Frame Mediums - I know I'm gonna get old and don't want to have to replace everything.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I've standardized in double deeps for brood boxes and mediums for everything else.

... but that's not standardizing... that's using two different sizes of frames and boxes.


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## SB-Russ (Apr 10, 2015)

Michael Bush said:


> >I'd be really keen to hear why people don't like anything less than mediums. Is it purely yield and cost, or are there other reasons people don't like the smaller sizes?
> 
> Things available in medium but not available in shallow depth:


Ahh now a light pops on. See, here in Australia, apart from boxes and wooden frames, pretty much nothing (some limited wax foundation available in other sizes) is available unless it's full depth. I guess that really screws the poll results as applicable to my situation


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## Rusty Hills Farm (Mar 24, 2010)

All deeps. They are the most versatile.

Rusty


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## Dan P (Oct 29, 2014)

Another bee keeper wants to switch to only shallows. Currently all deeps. How would I help her accomplish this. place empty shallows on bottom?


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## Alexander co (Dec 6, 2013)

Well... I started out on 10 Langstroth and horizontal 24 fr Dadant. After 7 years i changed for 10 Dadant and shallows. After others 5 years i started 8 Lang . Now i started over Farrar. Now in my beeyard they are 5 beehives tipes. This year i try to put the old Dadant on fire, for a barbecue. Much time i worked on 8. But i am so sorry for i had the ideea of 8. The main shortcoming is the swarming tendency, because of the air bad flowing. If you are healthy and strong , the best are Lang 10.


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## SB-Russ (Apr 10, 2015)

From everything I've read so far, I'm pretty much set on 8 frame, unless I go shallow or half. You guys are swaying me towards medium, but I'm still weighing up my availability options from the various suppliers. Someone in another thread said full frames don't fit in two half size boxes, but I'm not sure why?

I can see though that I'll still end up with some deeps along the way, just for interchangeability with other beekeepers. The trick will be figuring out a viable method of easily transitioning between whatever size I choose, and full depth gear, without extended transition times or some wierd Tower of Hanoi puzzle to get it done.


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