# Probiotics -- Yet another Snake-oil



## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

Ptaszyńska, Aneta A., et al. "Are commercial probiotics and prebiotics effective in the treatment and prevention of honeybee nosemosis C?." Parasitology Research (2015): 1-10.
Abstract

The study was conducted to investigate the effect of Lactobacillus rhamnosus (a commercial probiotic) and inulin (a prebiotic) on the survival rates of honeybees infected and uninfected with Nosema ceranae, the level of phenoloxidase (PO) activity, the course of nosemosis, and the effect on the prevention of nosemosis development in bees. The cells of L. rhamnosus exhibited a high rate of survival in 56.56 % sugar syrup, which was used to feed the honeybees.

Surprisingly, honeybees fed with sugar syrup supplemented with a commercial probiotic and a probiotic + prebiotic were more susceptible to N. ceranae infection, and their lifespan was much shorter. The number of microsporidian spores in the honeybees fed for 9 days prior to N. ceranae infection with a sugar syrup supplemented with a commercial probiotic was 25 times higher (970 million spores per one honeybee) than in a control group fed with pure sucrose syrup (38 million spores per one honeybee). PO activity reached its highest level in the hemolymph of this honeybee control group uninfected with N. ceranae.

The addition of probiotics or both probiotics and prebiotics to the food of uninfected bees led to the ~2-fold decrease in the PO activity. The infection of honeybees with N. ceranae accompanied an almost 20-fold decrease in the PO level. The inulin supplemented solely at a concentration of 2 μg/mL was the only administrated factor which did not significantly affect honeybees’ survival, the PO activity, or the nosemosis infection level.

*In conclusion, the supplementation of honeybees’ diet with improperly selected probiotics or both probiotics and prebiotics does not prevent nosemosis development, can de-regulate insect immune systems, and may significantly increase bee mortality.
*
Hat-tip, PLB on Bee-L


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

Another sucker born every minute! In the 1990's I paid $9\oz for mite solution....looked a lot like Vaseline and had the exact same affect....nothing.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

There is/was a self proclaimed bee guru on here a while back that made comment after positive comment about probiotics (among other things
like sustainabliity etc). Came off like a real expert all the time, on everything.
He was some building top farmer in NYC, soybeans if I remember.
Hope the guru see this, and wonder if he has any bees left after using the stuff.


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## JSL (Sep 22, 2007)

JW, this is a tough one... Pro/Prebiotics are not used all that much in commercial animal feeds for livestock production because there does not appear to be a cost benefit in most cases. However, they are relatively inexpensive and often appeal to smaller consumers, so why not add them to feeds and advertise it too. IMHO...


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

We use pro and pre biotic additives in our livestock rations.


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## JSL (Sep 22, 2007)

For what purpose Ian?


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## JoshuaW (Feb 2, 2015)

Seems to me that it also depends on what kind of bacteria...

Symbionts as Major Modulators of Insect Health: Lactic Acid Bacteria and Honeybees

The Abstract: "Lactic acid bacteria (LAB) are well recognized beneficial host-associated members of the microbiota of humans and animals. Yet LAB-associations of invertebrates have been poorly characterized and their functions remain obscure. Here we show that honeybees possess an abundant, diverse and ancient LAB microbiota in their honey crop with beneficial effects for bee health, defending them against microbial threats. Our studies of LAB in all extant honeybee species plus related apid bees reveal one of the largest collections of novel species from the genera Lactobacillus and Bifidobacterium ever discovered within a single insect and suggest a long (>80 mya) history of association. Bee associated microbiotas highlight Lactobacillus kunkeei as the dominant LAB member. Those showing potent antimicrobial properties are acquired by callow honey bee workers from nestmates and maintained within the crop in biofilms, though beekeeping management practices can negatively impact this microbiota. Prophylactic practices that enhance LAB, or supplementary feeding of LAB, may serve in integrated approaches to sustainable pollinator service provision. We anticipate this microbiota will become central to studies on honeybee health, including colony collapse disorder, and act as an exemplar case of insect-microbe symbiosis."

Buyer beware.


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## JSL (Sep 22, 2007)

JoshuaW said:


> Seems to me that it also depends on what kind of bacteria...


I think this is the key... Don't get me wrong, I appreciate all of the symbiotic relationships and their complexity, but again, I think many products are unable to supplement or even compliment those relationships effectively. 

Inoculants for silage and plants come to mind as a beneficial group, but once you enter into the organism itself the complexity greatly increases...


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## Rusty Hills Farm (Mar 24, 2010)

hmmm...other studies come to mind...chocolate, coffee, red wine, for example. For every study that says they're bad for ya, there's one that says they're good. I'm wondering if this is gonna be one of those topics where whether they are good or bad depends on which study you read.

I've never done any scientific studies of anything. I just know that when I use small amounts in my winter feed the bees seem stronger in the spring...but that may be for some reason I haven't even discovered yet. I do know I use probiotics and I haven't killed any hives yet.

JMO

Rusty


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## JSL (Sep 22, 2007)

Rusty Hills Farm said:


> hmmm...other studies come to mind...chocolate, coffee, red wine, for example. For every study that says they're bad for ya, there's one that says they're good.


So true Rusty, keep up what works for you and your bees.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

JSL said:


> For what purpose Ian?


providing conditions in the stomach and gut which favour beneficial microbe growth. Remember we raise cattle, those stomachs convert all that un accessible roughage into digestible nutrients.
Hard to measure.
But since we switched to a more detailed measured feeding approach, our animals health has increased and production performance has measurably increased. The pre pro biotic additives are part of the feeding strategy. They account for pennies per day investment


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Probiotics -- Yet another Snake-oil

Here is yet another perfect example of broad conclusions based on one test that would have surprise me greatly if it succeeded. IF (and I'm not selling nor am I interested in buying probiotics) you were to try to find a useful probiotic for bees it would obviously need to be something specific to and useful for bees. Feeding some "commercial probiotics and prebitotics" that are based on a microbes that lives in human guts (Lactobacillus rhamnosus) would succeed why? Are they even being sold for bees? And if they are being sold for bees, are they derived from the natural inhabitants of bees? It looks to me like Lactobacillus rhamnosus has been a useful probiotic for humans, not bees.

>Ptaszyńska, Aneta A., et al. "Are commercial probiotics and prebiotics effective in the treatment and prevention of honeybee nosemosis C?." Parasitology Research (2015): 1-10.

So the title asks a very broad question and then uses a particular set of pro and pre biotics that are currently being sold for humans. and then makes broad conclusions about probiotic use in bees.

Don't get me wrong, I think the right thing to do is not to kill off what is naturally living in bees, rather than "treat" them with what you think should be living in bees, but it seems obvious that IF any probiotic is going to be useful it's going to be something that naturally lives in the stomach or the gut of healthy bees such as Lactobacillus kunkeei or any of the other 8,000 microbes that were isolated by Martha Gilliam.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

In a previous conversation deknow brought up that exact point.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Ian said:


> providing conditions in the stomach and gut which favour beneficial microbe growth.


Well said Ian.


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## JSL (Sep 22, 2007)

Ian said:


> In a previous conversation deknow brought up that exact point.


I understand why tests/products use currently available off the shelf cultures... But, has anyone attempted to isolate or administer cultures specific to honey bees? Perhaps isolating, culturing and delivery is the issue?


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