# Newbie trying to find alternative ways to get involved with beekeeping



## urbanoutlaw (Nov 19, 2012)

First time poster here.

My husband has convinced me to be VERY interested in beekeeping, but we don't have the money to get involved just yet, nor a place to put the bees even if we had the funds (we are diligently trying to change our situation) - and, the local bee club's 2013 course is already full. We're not looking for sympathy or free stuff, just an opportunity to learn from real human beings in addition to what we find online. 

We're thinking of finding/asking established beekeepers to letting us newbies observe them in the field. This way we could still bee involved, get experience, etc. We also plan to go to club meetings, but I'm definitely more of a hands-on person.

Any other suggestions for getting involved?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## twgreen3 (Aug 22, 2008)

Well I would start reading and learning as much as you can from that. I would also get involved with the bee club and I am sure there will be someone there willing to show you the ropes in exchange for some muscle.


----------



## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

The bee school may be full but attend the meetings.


----------



## Ramona (Apr 26, 2008)

Read and study as much as you can to learn vocabulary, terminology, bee biology, basic management, etc. There are lots of free resources online. Hands on is always best but it will be easier for you and the beekeepers you shadow if you have some basic understanding. 

Go to the meetings and meet the beekeepers. Start making friends. Show you are learning on your own before you ask if you can shadow.

Bee school may need volunteers for snack table or other jobs. See if you can get in that way.

Volunteer at the club. Show that you are a good worker and not an energy drain. 

There are different styles to beekeepjng - try to shadow more than one beekeeper-you'll start to see where things are similar and different.

By spring you should have enough knowledge and friends for some real bee experience. Shadowing for a year is a great idea. You'll have a better idea of what to expect before you spend any money.


----------



## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Did you try the employment forum? Many beekeepers barter. Can you construct a hive, hunt for scrap materials?


----------



## winevines (Apr 7, 2007)

BeeCurious said:


> The bee school may be full but attend the meetings.


Thank you so much for posting that! These folks are talking about the bee school from our club. We really encourage folks to do exactly what you posting but for some reason most folks are slow to follow through- which always makes me wonder about how interested they really are in beekeeping if they can't even attend a meeting to learn something. This year we had a little bit different dynamic. We had up to 10 folks who stayed in touch with us all year, and when our registration opened, they got first dibs. so for all you wanna bees- attend a bee meeting at at local, state or regional level and start learning that way!


----------



## urbanoutlaw (Nov 19, 2012)

Thanks so much for the positive feedback! We missed the November meeting due to my husband's class schedule, but it shouldn't be an issue next semester. We definitely plan to attend club meetings starting in January and continue studying books/videos, etc. 

Volunteering with activities is a great idea. I'm not sure why that didn't occur to me...probably too many bee videos. Trading labor is another good suggestion, after we get to know people. 

How do you guys deal with us eager newbies?


----------



## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

winevines said:


> which always makes me wonder about how interested they really are in beekeeping if they can't even attend a meeting to learn something.


Most clubs have some nominal dues associated with being a club member and taking part in its benefits. I can see where someone would be reluctant to accept the benefits of a club if they know they cannot afford to pay dues. This club (beesource) is free and has a wealth of information to any beekeeper. As a resource I rate it much higher than a local club even though I know there are benefits to belonging to a local club. And I am not suggesting not to belong to one.


----------



## Solomon Parker (Dec 21, 2002)

Ask to hang out with beekeepers while they are working. I've never turned anyone down. Many options will open up to you as well as gaining an understanding of what's involved.


----------



## Steven Ogborn (Jun 3, 2011)

Acebird said:


> Most clubs have some nominal dues associated with being a club member and taking part in its benefits. I can see where someone would be reluctant to accept the benefits of a club if they know they cannot afford to pay dues. This club (beesource) is free and has a wealth of information to any beekeeper. As a resource I rate it much higher than a local club even though I know there are benefits to belonging to a local club. And I am not suggesting not to belong to one.


Right Ace. Stay with this website. It has helped me enormously. It's FREE. It is a massive archive of information that's been acumulated by thousands of experianced and new beeks over decades of participation. If it involves beekeeping, it's here somewhere. If you have questions, it's easy to do a search. And don't be affraid to ask if you don't understand or can't find something. There's alot of us who are just waiting to show what we know or tell you how we'd do it. I just recently bought a $50 dollar book from an expert with a doctorate, and got no new information from it. I already had it from, or had seen it here on BeeSource.


----------



## taydeko (Jan 3, 2012)

Another area to watch for is helping at state fairs or other public information opportunities. There is setup required, and manning tables and other activities you can help with. I also agree to read, read, read, and look at videos too. It is always amazing when I hear 2nd or third year beekeepers ask what supercedure is, or something like that. There is so much information available. Everyone has a different opinion too. You will need information to try to make good decisions about how you want to keep your bees.


----------



## Joes_bees (Jul 9, 2012)

Not having the money to get started in beekeeping is always rough, but hearing about classes being full or people that can't find mentors always bums me out. On the other hand it's nice to hear there is that much interest out there in beekeeping.


----------



## Adam Foster Collins (Nov 4, 2009)

With so much info available about swarm traps and top bar hives, I really don't see a lack of money being a real barrier to hobby beekeeping. I've seen professional beekeepers inspect hives with just a mosquito net for a veil. I've seen how-to's on making a smoker. there's no end to reclaimable lumber...

If you don't have space, put an ad on craigslist and ask. Tell people what you're trying to do, and they will respond.

I live in the city with a tiny space.

I caught a swarm in my own trap this spring, and I have bees in three yards. I have heard from many people offering me space to put hives and traps after I posted a couple of free ads online. I even had the local news calling me wanting to do a story. I got 8 deep hive bodies and a bunch of frames for $20 from a guy (which I turned into swarm traps), and I got enough gear for 6 full langstroths from another person who wanted me to keep bees in his yard, and had a bunch of gear.

If money gets in the way, get some enjoyment out of going around it.

Adam


----------



## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

I find most of the $$ goes to keeping up with the bees, not necessarily aquiring them, although that can be a major cost if you can't find a swarm or someone giving them away. Come to the chatroom in the evening, you'll learn everything you want to know.


----------



## rniles (Oct 10, 2012)

Don't even give up on the hives and bees. 

Found a nice Kenyan Top Bar Hive plan that I might be trying out in 2013 for a third hive of bees - if I get a 3rd from a swarm - it would mean free bees and a very cheap but workable hive.

http://www.hive-mind.com/2011/03/kenyan-top-bar.html


----------



## Joes_bees (Jul 9, 2012)

Do your homework. There are lots of discussions out there regarding what hive to start with. One advantage of the top bar hive is that it can be built very cheap if that is a requirement for you.

Go to the club meetings. Be friendly. Someone will take you out to their apiary.

If you're strapped for cash, spending hundreds of dollars (or many hours building equipment) when you haven't even opened a beehive could be a risky investment.


----------



## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

I say find a local commercial or sideliner that could use some help. Go out there and get into the hives with the sideliner or commercial operator. They can show you alot more than you can read in this forum or out of a book. Meetings at local bee clubs is also good. You will learn from them as well. 

I have seen folks join these types of clubs and actually never participate in the purpose of the club. Just so they could educate themselves on the happenings of beekeeping. Who knows maybe your local bee club has an annual raffle for a package and woodware for bees.


----------



## Joes_bees (Jul 9, 2012)

BMAC said:


> I say find a local commercial or sideliner that could use some help. Go out there and get into the hives with the sideliner or commercial operator. They can show you alot more than you can read in this forum or out of a book.


Commercial and sideline beekeepers know a lot. If you want to go into the business of beekeeping, I recommend you learn from them. If you just want a few hives in your backyard, it is best they are not your only source of experience. They have equipment that you can only hope to have access to once you start. They may not care to answer questions about crush and strain, or wearing gloves, or copper hive covers... which are valid questions for a backyard beekeeper.


----------



## WesternWilson (Jul 18, 2012)

There is nothing like just keeping bees. Put an ad on Craigslist looking for someone who has the space and will buy all the stuff, but wants you to do the actual beekeeping. I am betting you will find someone. Older people who can't lift the hive boxes any longer are often open to this sort of arrangement.


----------



## gone2seed (Sep 18, 2011)

Old beekeepers can always use someone with muscle.Don't ask me how I know that.If you attend club meetings you may find that old beekeepers fall into two categories...friendly and helpful and 
then the other kind.


----------



## urbanoutlaw (Nov 19, 2012)

Ok, based on the replies, I have the following for action items:


Continue to read/learn/watch instructional material
Ad on CL seeking space for bees.
Attend local and state bee club meetings (volunteer and seek mentor once comfortable)
Consider DIY top bar hive instead of Langstroth (need lumber pricing; find out considerations for management, especially in subsequent years)
Research commercial and/or independent operators for different perspectives
Find out hidden beekeeping costs, especially for years 1 & 2

Have I overlooked anything? After reading the replies, I feel more optimistic that we can work things out with adequate planning. As far as that's concerned, for equipment purposes, the plan is to get smokers and commercial veils, but go with TIG welding gloves (husband already has these) and painters' suits (cheap) - at least in the short run. For the hive, we were originally thinking about contacting Dadant or Virginia Bee about 8-frame medium hive bodies. I have RA, so lifting anything heavier by myself is a no-go without my other half. (I'll have to do some research on the top-bar hive to see if that might work out.)

Are there any ways to potentially save money when buying packages or nucs? I'm kind of assuming that we don't want to skimp on bee quality, but have to ask.

Thanks again, everyone, for your time.


----------



## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

These are all pretty good suggestions, I'd particularly agree with joining a club and shadowing a beekeeper (there will be someone at the club who is willing).While you're waiting, check this out: http://www.ohiostatebeekeepers.org/beekeeping_class/


----------



## Joes_bees (Jul 9, 2012)

Since you're on a budget check out http://www.pigeonmountaintrading.com for protective gear and smokers.

The quality isn't as good as some of the major suppliers but they'll get you through a few years with a couple hives.


----------



## libhart (Apr 22, 2010)

If the bee club as a swarm list, get on it. And/or, if you make some arrangement with a local beekeeper you might be able to make part of that arrangement that you'd be able to help collect swarms and as long as he/she gets an adequate number, you get dibs on any others. If winter plays nice and the swarms next spring are like they were this past spring, you may get lucky and get a call. But if you do this, *be prepared*. Have the place ready, your equipment ready, the hive built, the frames built....everything sitting and waiting for bees. But hey....free bees!


----------



## Colleen O. (Jun 5, 2012)

urbanoutlaw said:


> snip...
> [*][*]Consider DIY top bar hive instead of Langstroth (need lumber pricing; find out considerations for management, especially in subsequent years)
> Snip...
> I have RA, so lifting anything heavier by myself is a no-go without my other half. (I'll have to do some research on the top-bar hive to see if that might work out.)
> ...


For info on cheap DIY top-bar hives check out Phil Chandler's biobees website. If you have access to some simple tools you are supposed to be able to make them from scrap wood. I made a temporary three foot long one in a night with scrap lumber I had on hand. Check out the top-bar hive section on here too. You'll learn about some of the pros and cons on them, and some modifications to the Chandler design that most make. It may be better for your RA because there is no box lifting.

I second the swarm recommendations. Free Bees! You can requeen them in the future if you need to but at least you would be hands-on learning! I missed out on one at a friend's house this past April because he didn't know I was starting beekeeping. Major Bummer! If you don't manage to lure one into whatever hive you have set up (check out the swarm/trapout section for pointers on that) you will be ready to go if your name comes up on the swarm list or something.

Good Luck! (And keep in mind it is my first year and I know next to nothing about beekeeping -in context of how much there is to learn.)


----------



## urbanoutlaw (Nov 19, 2012)

Thanks for the link. We will read up on the pros and cons here as well. I'm not sure how much the RA will come into play other than I know having 10-frame deeps is out of the question. It's nice to see how much flexibility there is in beekeeping. 

Please don't think I was ignoring the swarm advice. I hope we get lucky in that regard, but I won't get my hopes up until we've made some contacts. Our immediate area seems so monoculture central: Mostly stunted trees and sterile, well-manicured lawns with a choice of maybe 5 different plants. It's not my thing, but the rent is unbeatably low. I'd pity the honey bees that wander near this place! Though beekeeping is prohibited in the covenant, we do our best to help by growing a few pollinator-friendly herbs and flowers.


----------



## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

Based on my initial experience, your first purchase should be a bee suit or jacket with zip on veil of some type. The rest is easy - but to volunteer to help, or to deal with a suddenly appearing swarm, you can patch a box together to get them through a day or 2, but you need a suit or jacket and heavy jeans. With hood. and I use $4 heavy nitrile gloves from Home depot.


----------



## cerezha (Oct 11, 2011)

Gypsi said:


> Based on my initial experience, your first purchase should be a bee suit or jacket with zip on veil of some type. ..


 Yes, totally agree - without reasonable beesuit,you could not go to the class or help with swarms. It is approximately $50 apiece plus free gloves and sometime shipping. I saw somewhere on beesouce that currently, hive bodies are $8 for the deeps and $6 for the mediums plus free S&H. Top bar hives are also inexpensive. I would probably prefer local bees rather "imported" ones. Based on my experience, one need to plan at least two hives. One hive is not realistic to keep it especially at the beginning. Bee-club is very good idea,but read the books! Good luck with your project, Sergey


----------



## mike haney (Feb 9, 2007)

urbanoutlaw said:


> Thanks for the link. We will read up on the pros and cons here as well. I'm not sure how much the RA will come into play other than I know having 10-frame deeps is out of the question. It's nice to see how much flexibility there is in beekeeping.
> 
> Please don't think I was ignoring the swarm advice. I hope we get lucky in that regard, but I won't get my hopes up until we've made some contacts. Our immediate area seems so monoculture central: Mostly stunted trees and sterile, well-manicured lawns with a choice of maybe 5 different plants. It's not my thing, but the rent is unbeatably low. I'd pity the honey bees that wander near this place! Though beekeeping is prohibited in the covenant, we do our best to help by growing a few pollinator-friendly herbs and flowers.


RA shoudnt be a factor-i just use one arm and manage by taking the frames out one at a time until the deep is empty,then move it. put the removed frames in a cardboard box,cooler,spare deep,etc.
practice undercover beekeeping to get around the covenant-put the frames in a cooler,hide the whole hive in a doghouse or storage building,camoflage/screen with vines/bushes, use your roof or attic.
i would consider such arbitrary rules and financal limitations as a challenge to be overcome.
if all else fails,deny,deny,deny and claim the bees are wild and defy them to prove otherwise.


----------



## mike haney (Feb 9, 2007)

as far as a suit goes, i used white pants over jeans and a long sleeve white shirt from GOODWILL (or other "thrift" shop that may be local) for years. a "mosquito" or bug veil from a sporting goods store or (in season) WALMART over a wide brimmed straw hat (from GOODWILL) is actually my choice over a traditional veil. the gloves from HOME DEPOT would absolutely work great too.
with some luck and dilligence you can suit up for $5


----------



## taydeko (Jan 3, 2012)

You will eventually want some food grade buckets, probably for honey. Don't buy them! Go to your local supermarket deli and ask if they are tossing any fondant buckets or other food grade buckets. Eventually you might want to fit one or more of them with a honey gate, but you could probably get by without that until you want to buy it. To find wood for hives, check out new housing developments. Talk to the builders and ask to raid their scrap wood piles. There are often some excellent pieces of wood in there that is perfect for hives, top bars, covers, etc. Keep an eye out for demolitions too. You might find free lumber there, along with free bricks, stones, etc. Bricks and stones are great for holding covers down on hives.

I don't recommend Phil Chandler's top bar design for use in the US. I would recommend going a lot simpler than his. I have complete designs on my blog (link below). I can build a top bar hive for about $20 for the hive body with new wood from Home Depot. Bars are a little more, but can easily be made from scrap, or from 2x4s from the cull bin at Home Depot which cost $.51 each.

Ted


----------



## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

urbanoutlaw said:


> but go with TIG welding gloves (husband already has these)


I wouldn't use these gloves they are too open at the cuff. Nitrile and coated garden gloves work well. Tape the cuff of the painter's suit to the gloves.


----------



## urbanoutlaw (Nov 19, 2012)

You guys have no idea how uplifting this thread has been. I am truly thankful for the time you've taken to share these ideas. Hopefully, I'll be in the position to help out a newbie someday!



mike haney said:


> as far as a suit goes, i used white pants over jeans and a long sleeve white shirt from GOODWILL (or other "thrift" shop that may be local) for years. a "mosquito" or bug veil from a sporting goods store or (in season) WALMART over a wide brimmed straw hat (from GOODWILL) is actually my choice over a traditional veil. the gloves from HOME DEPOT would absolutely work great too.
> with some luck and dilligence you can suit up for $5





mike haney said:


> RA shoudnt be a factor-i just use one arm and manage by taking the frames out one at a time until the deep is empty,then move it. put the removed frames in a cardboard box,cooler,spare deep,etc.
> practice undercover beekeeping to get around the covenant-put the frames in a cooler,hide the whole hive in a doghouse or storage building,camoflage/screen with vines/bushes, use your roof or attic.
> i would consider such arbitrary rules and financal limitations as a challenge to be overcome.
> if all else fails,deny,deny,deny and claim the bees are wild and defy them to prove otherwise.


This actually crossed my mind, but the HOA has an inspection person who randomly walks everyone's property for noncompliant items. I decided not to buck the system seeing as the landlord is an in-law and actually very cool. It was tempting though!

What about assembling frames a few at a time? They're way cheaper unassembled. I'm still looking at the top bar hives, but if we end up with conventional boxes frames will be a factor.



mike haney said:


> as far as a suit goes, i used white pants over jeans and a long sleeve white shirt from GOODWILL (or other "thrift" shop that may be local) for years. a "mosquito" or bug veil from a sporting goods store or (in season) WALMART over a wide brimmed straw hat (from GOODWILL) is actually my choice over a traditional veil. the gloves from HOME DEPOT would absolutely work great too.
> with some luck and dilligence you can suit up for $5


What about some white voile (sheer curtains) for the veil? I have some left over from another project and could put it on my hat.

Any reason why leather TIG gloves wouldn't work? They come in white, fit tighter, and are thinner than other welding gloves...trying to think of stuff we have on hand. Dark leather work boots ok or do I need to make white spats to slide over them?



taydeko said:


> You will eventually want some food grade buckets, probably for honey. Don't buy them! Go to your local supermarket deli and ask if they are tossing any fondant buckets or other food grade buckets. Eventually you might want to fit one or more of them with a honey gate, but you could probably get by without that until you want to buy it. To find wood for hives, check out new housing developments. Talk to the builders and ask to raid their scrap wood piles. There are often some excellent pieces of wood in there that is perfect for hives, top bars, covers, etc. Keep an eye out for demolitions too. You might find free lumber there, along with free bricks, stones, etc. Bricks and stones are great for holding covers down on hives.
> 
> I don't recommend Phil Chandler's top bar design for use in the US. I would recommend going a lot simpler than his. I have complete designs on my blog (link below). I can build a top bar hive for about $20 for the hive body with new wood from Home Depot. Bars are a little more, but can easily be made from scrap, or from 2x4s from the cull bin at Home Depot which cost $.51 each.
> 
> Ted


What about 5 & 6 gallon fermenting buckets? Too big? We hadn't gotten around to selling our brewing gear and it seems like a lot of it could be useful at some point for honey storage and processing.

Thanks for sharing your hive plans. Cheap and probably the easiest to follow of the ones we've looked at.


----------



## urbanoutlaw (Nov 19, 2012)

Acebird said:


> I wouldn't use these gloves they are too open at the cuff. Nitrile and coated garden gloves work well. Tape the cuff of the painter's suit to the gloves.


Should the gardening gloves be coated all over or will the ones with coated undersides (fingers and palms) do?


----------



## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

urbanoutlaw said:


> What about some white voile (sheer curtains) for the veil? I have some left over from another project and could put it on my hat.


You may want to look at the veil plans at this link, courtesy of Beesource member _Katharina_:
http://www.klamathbeekeepers.org/Be...uipment/making_your_own_veil_on_a_budget.html



urbanoutlaw said:


> Any reason why leather TIG gloves wouldn't work? They come in white, fit tighter, and are thinner than other welding gloves...trying to think of stuff we have on hand. Dark leather work boots ok or do I need to make white spats to slide over them?


Regular [dark colored] boots should be fine. And your TIG gloves should be OK if you can close the cuff so skin is not exposed. 

And your brewing buckets will be useful, too. You might someday even want to make some mead from honey.


----------



## taydeko (Jan 3, 2012)

urbanoutlaw said:


> Should the gardening gloves be coated all over or will the ones with coated undersides (fingers and palms) do?


I would want gloves that are coated all over. The bees will sting through the fabric.


----------



## taydeko (Jan 3, 2012)

urbanoutlaw said:


> What about 5 & 6 gallon fermenting buckets? Too big? We hadn't gotten around to selling our brewing gear and it seems like a lot of it could be useful at some point for honey storage and processing.


If these are food grade buckets they should work fine.

Ted


----------



## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

urbanoutlaw said:


> What about some white voile (sheer curtains) for the veil? I have some left over from another project and could put it on my hat.


I don't think you would have enough visibility


> Any reason why leather TIG gloves wouldn't work? They come in white, fit tighter, and are thinner than other welding gloves...trying to think of stuff we have on hand. Dark leather work boots ok or do I need to make white spats to slide over them?


For the gloves you want a close fit between the glove and the sleeve so the bees can't crawl in. Any shoe works as far as I am concerned (I wear crocks with holes in them). Just wear socks and pull them over your pant legs. For pants I use genes.



> What about 5 & 6 gallon fermenting buckets? Too big? We hadn't gotten around to selling our brewing gear and it seems like a lot of it could be useful at some point for honey storage and processing.


Yes save the brewing gear for mead. mmmmm


----------



## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

urbanoutlaw said:


> Should the gardening gloves be coated all over or will the ones with coated undersides (fingers and palms) do?


I have used these and you can get stung very easily through the cotton side. For starters try the welding gloves and tape the cuffs real good until you loose your fear of getting stung. It is the fear that is worse than the actual sting if you are not allergic. I like the feel of the garden gloves and the fact that they breath but if the bees want you they can get you. If I am really digging into the hive like harvest time I use the throw away nitrile gloves.


----------



## Colleen O. (Jun 5, 2012)

For the welding gloves, it sounds (from your veil question) like you can sew. If you have some canvas or cotton scraps and elastic you could make extensions for the gloves that go up to mid bicep. Simple loose tube gathered at the end so the bees can't get in. My purchased gloves have them and they look simple enough to replicate.


----------



## RAFAEL/PR (Feb 23, 2012)

FIRST LET ME SAY WELCOME!. two you are among a bunch of great , and helpful people here , 3 we have a chat room that fun to be ,but sometime it get a little crazy there,lol,, and we do have experts in this forum some even have books out on beekeeping, you will learn alot in this forum , because im a newbie and started beekeeping in 2012 got my first swarm on april and just got just got my second swarm last week small swarm about a 1000 africanized bees, here in Puerto Rico, i am in a very tight budget also ,and the way i got around it is i made my own hive , made a top bar and noc hives and trap which are easy to build , here the link to the spec on diff hives you could build yourself from beesouce , http://www.beesource.com/resources/elements-of-beekeeping/alternative-hive-designs/ also you tube has tons of infor on beekeeping and building your own hives , one guy come to mind that show all about beekeeping and gear is outofabluesky on youtube, as for gloves use the dish washing rubber glove are ok welding gloves are way to thick to work with. first thing you need to fight is fear when you working with 10,000 to 30,000 bees , you just have to respect them, and it best to start with two hive not one ,that way if one is weak , you could take blood from the other hive or eggs laves , good luck!


----------



## urbanoutlaw (Nov 19, 2012)

Thanks for the welcome, Rafael, and congratulations on your swarms! I've been watching YouTube videos of swarm captures and will be putting out a trap this spring. As far as I'm concerned it's not "beekeeping activity" because I'll be doing the HOA a favor by removing the "menace" of honeybees (lol) and relocating them somewhere they'll be properly appreciated! Everything we see points to starting with 2 hives. Perhaps this will save money AND give us bees suitable for our area.

I'm in the process of sewing bee veils. They will probably get a few laughs (tulle is a pain to work with), but are only costing me $1.50 each!


----------



## libhart (Apr 22, 2010)

sewing your own veils? you've got the beekeeper mentality already 

At that price I'd suggest sewing a few backups. Unless your tulle is pretty high-strength stuff, I'm imagining you're going to get a tear sooner or later, and it will inevitabley come when you're standing over an open hive and the girls have decided they don't really want to be inspected that day. Being able to hold the tear shut, calmly walk away, and then come back w/a new veil in a minute or so will make that experience low stress on everyone.


----------



## WesternWilson (Jul 18, 2012)

I agree tulle is not an optimal bee veil choice, but if you use it, choose black as it is easier to see through.


----------



## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Jim, take note of Wilson. Make sure his name gets on the right list! We gotta watch out for those naysayers.


----------



## WesternWilson (Jul 18, 2012)

What do you mean by that?


----------



## RAFAEL/PR (Feb 23, 2012)

but we don't have the money to get involved just yet, *nor a place to put the bees even if we had the funds *(we are diligently trying to change our situation) dont know what kind of house you have but the roof is a good place to put bees believe it or not that is where i have my bees at this moment on the roof no one will bother them there and they wont bother anyone because they are up high , in NYc the beekeepers put their hive on 50 + floor roof and the bee know how to go back home!!!


----------



## urbanoutlaw (Nov 19, 2012)

We may have found a yard, but it's quite a distance from us and I'm thinking the owner may be having second thoughts. Time will tell. Unfortunately, all the local places I've inquired are either not interested or are already hosting hives.

As a plan B, I'm thinking about buying full suits to concentrate on swarms (eventually cut-outs) and working with other beekeepers for a year. The more I think about Plan B, the more I think it could become a very viable Plan A. It's a stretch, but will likely to lead to lower long-term cost. In the meantime, I can build these nuc boxes for cheap in case things do work out. 

Thoughts?


----------



## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Plan B doesn't solve not having a place to put the hives. I am not saying plan B is a bad idea.


----------



## taydeko (Jan 3, 2012)

Plan B will never work!!!:no: As soon as you start catching bees you will want some for your own hives! LOL


----------



## urbanoutlaw (Nov 19, 2012)

So maybe Plan B buys me time? Is the "logical" choice? Nevermind. Now that you've opened THAT can of worms, taydeko, I know I'd get antsy and do some guerrilla beekeeping if it came down to it.

I wonder if catching a swarm would be analogous to "first one's free" and I will be saddled with an incurable addiction?


----------



## urbanoutlaw (Nov 19, 2012)

Acebird said:


> Plan B doesn't solve not having a place to put the hives. I am not saying plan B is a bad idea.


Also, I don't know if the owner is even having second thoughts. Just a combination of my own personal paranoia/phobia. But better to be prepared rather than taken by surprise than to have 3# of bees and a nuc and nowhere for them to stay.


----------



## College Beekeeper (Jan 26, 2011)

Consider starting a beekeeping program at a local school! 
They'll often provide some of the needed startup, and you'd be learning with the students (and I'd highly recommend a local beekeeper with experience as well). Check out the website below, or just google 'college beekeeper'
Best of luck!


----------



## taydeko (Jan 3, 2012)

urbanoutlaw said:


> .... I wonder if catching a swarm would be analogous to "first one's free" and I will be saddled with an incurable addiction?


Seriously, I think your plan B is a good one, but I think you probably would end up with an incurable addiction, if you enjoy the work. Some people don't. Your plan would give you a chance to get experience and maybe help other beeks with the bees you catch. 

Ted


----------



## urbanoutlaw (Nov 19, 2012)

The logical side of me really likes Plan B. We decided to sell off things from old hobbies. It's been bittersweet as they're either things we can't afford to do anymore or I can't do them for medical reasons. Good news is it gives us a few extra dollars to get those suits! My husband is under the impression that he can find a "sting-proof" suit. I am not holding my breath on that one.... 

My ADD side HATES Plan B like the plague. BTW - this is the same side that convinced me to make bee veils and now has me working on a hive smoker. This smoke is hideous, but it works!! But I don't think I want to be seen in public with it.


----------



## rniles (Oct 10, 2012)

urbanoutlaw said:


> In the meantime, I can build these nuc boxes for cheap in case things do work out.


I just put together my first one of these last night. Nice, easy, functional nuc/swarm trap


----------



## Irmo (Jan 9, 2012)

Urbanoutlaw, VA just passed a law providing a grant of $200 per hive for anyone starting a new hive in 2013 and beyond. The maximum grant is $2400. It covers boxes, frames and foundation and some other things. When I get home I'll pull up the email I received from my association and post it. 

Which brings up my next point. The Loudoun Beekeepers Association meets in Leesburg which is just up Rt. 15 from you. Not very close by to you, but not too far either. They may have room in their class starting this winter. I took it last year, it's great. It was $85 last year, my wife and I took it together, only had to pay one fee for both of us. It includes text books and lecture notes on a DVD, and membership in the LBA and the state association.

Lastly, do you know anyone in the Boy Scouts? Camp Snyder is in Haymarket, they may have a spot on a corner of their property away from where the scouts roam. It's possible they might agree to let you put a hive or two there. Ask the care taker, contact info is on their website. Worst case is they say no. I might also call the folks who run Millbrook Quarry, where the do scuba certifications. They have land around the old quarry and may consider hives as long as they are not in the midst of the divers and picnickers etc.


----------



## rniles (Oct 10, 2012)

Irmo said:


> Urbanoutlaw, VA just passed a law providing a grant of $200 per hive for anyone starting a new hive in 2013 and beyond. The maximum grant is $2400.


Nice! That would be enough to get any small time operation off and running!


----------



## urbanoutlaw (Nov 19, 2012)

Yes, I corresponded with VDACS and am hoping to apply for the grant. I think I will have LOTS of competition so don't want to get my hopes up or rely upon getting reimbursement. Probably established beekeepers will be in a better position to be selected. The one thing the grant doesn't cover that I wish it did is the bees.

I'm still REALLY trying to talk myself into the Plan B option although I can't say it's my favorite.


----------



## rniles (Oct 10, 2012)

urbanoutlaw said:


> In the meantime, I can build these nuc boxes for cheap in case things do work out.
> 
> Thoughts?


Just a small thought ...if you build these boxes, making them wider to accommodate 8 to 10 frames, they would be hives instead of nucs.


----------



## AUXCOM (Sep 1, 2012)

For those of you that are on a VERY low budget...lol

I sent out email to various local universities here in FL and asked if there was the possibility of finding some to donate a hive. Lo and behold...someone passed my request along the "net" and I was able to pick up a donated hive (2 deeps, 10 frames each) with a nice Italian queen.

It was already inspected by the state (as required in FL) so all I have to do was go get it!!

If you do it this way...make sure you strap the hive together very carefully!!!! You don't want to be seen going down the highway wearing your bee suit....lol

Bobby


----------



## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

urbanoutlaw said:


> I wonder if catching a swarm would be analogous to "first one's free" and I will be saddled with an incurable addiction?


It's happened before.


----------



## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Irmo said:


> VA just passed a law providing a grant of $200 per hive for anyone starting a new hive in 2013 and beyond.


More info on this here:
http://www.vdacs.virginia.gov/news/releases-a/052312hivegrant.shtml


----------



## urbanoutlaw (Nov 19, 2012)

[Deleted] - not sure how to delete post.


----------



## urbanoutlaw (Nov 19, 2012)

As you may know, looks like the grant may be history. Luckily I made a few sales on CL and things are looking good (had some cool hobbies in a past life).

Now that we have some seed money, bought plywood for the nucs/boxes and cut them using a circular saw. Is there a trick to nailing the pieces together? Seems like I'm trying to nail rocks together -- are these things intended to be nailed together with a staple/nail gun?


----------



## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

When you are trying to make a corner joint with plywood it is easier and stronger if you glue / nail a 3/4 sq piece of pine on one of the pieces. I would put it on the front and back pieces. You can then nail better or use a drywall screw into the pine to hold the side pieces together.


----------



## urbanoutlaw (Nov 19, 2012)

I should take this to the equipment forum, but thanks for the tip.

I haven't done much in the way of woodworking and don't recall having worked with plywood before.


----------



## Che Guebuddha (Feb 4, 2012)

Im building my Top Bar Hives from reclaimed pallets so it costs me nothing. Building TBHs is way too easy. If there are cracks in the hive the bees will propolise it, so no worries if you are not a skilled woodworker 
I started my beekeeping journey last year thanks to reading Phil Chandler's book The Barefoot Beekeeper - Low cost Beeekeeping.

http://www.biobees.com/how_to_start_beekeeping.php

I find that Michael Bush's way of building Kenya Top Bar Hives is by far the fastest and easiest 
Click on the first 3 pictures please;
http://www.bushfarms.com/beestopbarhives.htm
He uses top entrance and a very simple roofing (check on his site)

Good luck


----------



## AUXCOM (Sep 1, 2012)

Finishing up my "cheap" storage bin TBH from stuff lying around the sheds.....lol

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/8186809920/in/photostream


----------



## RAFAEL/PR (Feb 23, 2012)

AUXCOM said:


> Finishing up my "cheap" storage bin TBH from stuff lying around the sheds.....lol
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/8186809920/in/photostream


nice idea, you need to get some sand paper and rough up the inside surface so the bees have a easy time getting around ,shining plastic don't let bee grab on the surface to good, also cover anything that look like a hole or cave, it a good place for wax moth and beetle to hide, even a mouse! good luck


----------



## urbanoutlaw (Nov 19, 2012)

*Wall o' text and other ramblings*

Not-So-Quick update:

Hives: We ended up buying new, unassembled Langstroth. With the possibility of relocation in the not-so-far future, I wanted hives that are easily transported. My father is also interested in trying his hand at building some hives. I had some unexpected medical expenses, so we need to be a little more creative. One of our "creative" solutions is going foundationless . If I can source a drawn comb or two and sandwich foundationless frames, maybe things will get drawn properly (yes, we'll certainly level the hive first!). Just keeping my fingers crossed I don't get too much wonky comb.

Clothing: I bought white scrub bottoms cheap to go with an old Oxford shirt. I've already made several veils using the design posted earlier in the thread for under $5 each. We'll also give kitchen and welding gloves a shot. I have extra elastic to keep glove tops and pant legs securely closed.

Bees: It would've been cheaper to get two packages, or roll the dice with just one, or hope for a swarm. I'm hoping to manage with "soft" treatments, so I didn't really want package Italians, but we'll see how they do. I'm not getting my hopes up. One of the hives will come from a nuc of SKCs . There was a valid reason (in my mind anyway) for going with SKCs, based on my beeyard agreement, which could pose a problem. Splits anyone?

Beeyard: This part isn't going so well. I was hooked up with an awesome suggestion for a place in Haymarket. The person at the property was super enthusiastic when we met in December, but this month it "mysteriously" seems to have fallen through. I have received no response to my email or voicemail from 3 weeks ago letting them know when bees would arrive (per our agreement). This is the second time a yard has fallen through. I won't go into the details of what WAS to be, but this is super disappointing. Not to mention being disabled means you sometimes need something challenging and interesting to look forward to. Too bad I guess. Unfortunately, I personally sold off almost every valuable object I had to make this happen. Our bee and hive purchases were based upon the agreement with this person, so yeah, I'm a bit upset about the whole situation. So now we're in a bind with bees coming and no place to put them. My last option is to put hives in my parents' 1/4 acre backyard 2 hours away, temporarily. I don't think that's a great choice, especially at current gas prices....grrrrrr! Better not to think about that right now. /rant 

On a more positive note, we started our out-of-town bee class recently. Yes, we could read free e-books, watch YouTube, and browse Beesource obsessively in lieu of a class, but for us this is money well spent. Not only do you meet other so-to-be beekeepers, there's no substitute for in-person question and answer or being able to see and touch used equipment for an idea of what's normal and what's not. I already knew a lot of basic information, but benefit from locally (regional in our case) relevant answers and information. Our tuition included two reference books and club membership, a major positive in my mind. Even better, since the hives will likely be stashed at my parents', our classmates and instructors will be local. I'm not sure if this is true of all classes in Virginia, but ours counts towards the Master Beekeeper certification should we choose to pursue it in the future.

So all in all, rolling with the positives and making lemonade out of the rest....

:ws:


----------



## RAFAEL/PR (Feb 23, 2012)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> More info on this here:
> http://www.vdacs.virginia.gov/news/releases-a/052312hivegrant.shtml


WOW DIDNT KNOW YOUR STATE COULD GO SO LOW FOR BEEKEEPERS I GUESS YOUR STATE HAVE NOT HEAR OF THIS 
http://theextinctionprotocol.wordpr...3-may-be-worst-years-for-bees-say-beekeepers/


----------



## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

You could - 
1) check out an online video about hiving a swarm
2) buy a new, box, frames and make a lid and bottom board for about 40 bucks and make a veil or buy a tie on wear with a light color longs sleeve shirt
3) Give your phone number to your 911 folks as someone to call should they get a call about an easily accessable swarm
4) Watch this video http://theocba.org/resources/video-a-year-in-the-life-of-an-apiary/
5) Catch a swarm
6) Enjoy keeping your bees for the 1st month or so while they build comb in that box while you save up for a 2nd box or instead do like us and winter in a single.

Year one of bootstrap beekeeping a success!


----------



## urbanoutlaw (Nov 19, 2012)

Joel said:


> 2) buy a new, box, frames and make a lid and bottom board for about 40 bucks


Do you generally make migratorys or telescoping lids w/ inner cover? I'm also assuming solid bottom boards? Just curious, I'm looking at migratory lids and solid bottoms now that the Arctic weather's moving out.

Otherwise, you're in the ballpark with my game plan. I have nucs/swarm traps and homemade lure ready to go, but I'm not saving my breath...way too much competition.

We're trying to be creative and thrifty as possible - I wouldn't call it bootstrappy. But someday maybe we'll be more self-sufficient.


----------



## urbanoutlaw (Nov 19, 2012)

RAFAEL/PR said:


> WOW DIDNT KNOW YOUR STATE COULD GO SO LOW FOR BEEKEEPERS I GUESS YOUR STATE HAVE NOT HEAR OF THIS
> http://theextinctionprotocol.wordpr...3-may-be-worst-years-for-bees-say-beekeepers/


Yes, we have the beekeeping grant, but there is a possibility it will be cancelled. There is also some controversy about it. But yes, everyone I have talked to say Virginia needs more beekeepers. Hopefully that means I will find someone who is serious about getting honey in exchange for hosting my hives soon.


----------



## NasalSponge (Jul 22, 2008)

Some great advice on here....but all you really need to catch a swarm is a box and some gym shorts. :lpf: J/K. You may want to consider signing up on this free online swarm list at www.bees-on-the-net.com you can sign up by state and city or county and tell what you do and don't want, granted I live in a large city but I got over 80 calls last year about bees either swarms or cutouts, and most from this site. Might be worth a try. 

Oh and about the gym shorts....just my preferred attire! :banana:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7g6FtLeQZik


----------



## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

urbanoutlaw said:


> Do you generally make migratorys or telescoping lids w/ inner cover? I'm also assuming solid bottom boards? Just curious, I'm looking at migratory lids and solid bottoms now that the Arctic weather's moving out.
> 
> Otherwise, you're in the ballpark with my game plan. I have nucs/swarm traps and homemade lure ready to go, but I'm not saving my breath...way too much competition.
> 
> We're trying to be creative and thrifty as possible - I wouldn't call it bootstrappy. But someday maybe we'll be more self-sufficient.


We always build Migratroy lids and our hive boxes, lids and bottom boards out of plywood but do put rails on the top and bottoms. We stain the rails before they are put togther and everyting else gets i once it is assembled. At 20 bucks a sheet if you cut it all out of 1 you can get 2 complete hives. Your nucs and swarm traps work best if you have them about 8-9 feet off the ground and a piece of old comb for lure helps (more than a piece is waxmoth bate). We've used lemon grass as well and numbers count. Every single year, a week before the last supers go on we have a couple of swarms move into our "repair/storage" yard at the honey house. We are buying quite a bit commerial boxes this year because we are swamped but they last half as long as the plywood.


----------



## urbanoutlaw (Nov 19, 2012)

@NasalSponge/Mike - talk about convenient placement for that swarm! Did you have to wait until evening to move them?

@Joel - would you mind briefly providing details about the type of plywood and construction methods you use for your lids and boxes? It would be a huge help if I could make my last few boxes out of plywood - even if they only last a season or two that would buy me some time.

I've smeared the nucs with lemongrass salve. Maybe I should go back and just try straight drops of the essential oil.


----------



## khaas15 (Feb 17, 2010)

Heck, I once came back from Jamaica with some logwood honey that was in my checked baggage. When I got to customs they told me that if the honey contained any comb it would be confiscated. They pulled the jar out and gave it a good look. That seemed kind of odd. I didn't want to argue but did think the guy was crazy.


----------



## NasalSponge (Jul 22, 2008)

> @NasalSponge/Mike - talk about convenient placement for that swarm! Did you have to wait until evening to move them?


No, I never wait until evening to button a swarm up....gas costs too much to make these trips twice.


----------



## urbanoutlaw (Nov 19, 2012)

Found this "suit kit" at Lowes for $9 - anybody used one or think it would be useful? Cheaper than the painter coveralls and it could be nice to use with my homemade veil.


----------



## franktrujillo (Jan 22, 2009)

you can learn all you need thru the internet you tube videos also you can find building plans also for bee hive boxes.also you can put free adds for swarms. that's a good way too get bees as well.one sheet of plywood 3/4" thick can build two double deep boxes that's the way i do mine.but i buy the frames from mann lake.the bees don't mind bad construction they'll fill the holes they don't need.


----------



## sergie (Feb 20, 2012)

First I must say I thoughly enjoyed reading this thread. Sounds a lot like my start in beekeeping... 

My first 2 hives got vandalized, not a usefull peice of wood left, and left me with very little money and ambition to restart. I had decided to get try again the next year. Started building hive boxes from plywood and got some hand-me-down woodenware from a oldtimer. One day I took the tarp off to work on the boxes and discovered bee's decided it was a good home.
I was happy and excited not to have to wait till next spring. However, this also left me very short on equipment and gear since i had returned the stuff i was loaned to start out. Anyway here are some of the things I improvised to get along:

Veil #1: Garden hat with cheese cloth attached and tucked into shirt collar. Used for 6 weeks.
Veil #2: Purchased plastic hat and veil from mannlake ($30) Still in use, But looking to buy a full suit this year.

Smoker 1: Syrup spray bottle. Works for some not for others. Still use when adding supers or replacing baggie feeders.
Smoker 2: Coffee can smoker. Just cut a hole in the lid and side of can. Cover lid hole and push to puff smoke. Not great or very durrable but cheap and easy to replace.

Hive Tool: mini crow bar from walmart ($2)

Hive Bodies/Supers: Modified plywood Nuc plans to full size hives. One sheet of plywood can make most everything needed for an entire hive.

Frames: Only thing I really buy. I buy from westrenbee $0.45 a frame is cheapest I found and very high quality. Have to pay for shipping though. 

Bee's: Swarms, obviously. I called several exterminating companies and talked with the people that accually go out on calls. Several where more then happy to give me the swarms they caught just so they didn't have to kill them.

Finding a bee yard was difficult for me as well. I talked to every one i could posible think of to find a yard. The home I found was the local small airport. They where having problems with break-ins, as a joke I told them bee hives would help scare would be crooks off, it worked.


----------



## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

How did you convince them that the bees would only bother the potential criminals?


----------



## tommyt (Aug 7, 2010)

Adds on Craig's list will get you bee jobs 
The thing is...... can you do them?
I would also try real hard to get your bees closer 
You'll want to go in them a lot and two hrs is a long haul
Try Craig's for bee yard 
Call your local county extension 
Any collages close by they may have land or know of?
Read. Read and read 

Before you do all that reading 
Read this is some of the best free reading around 
And if you have ??? He is here on BS you can ask him

Good luck


----------



## Andrew Dewey (Aug 23, 2005)

There are lots of great suggestions in this thread re: getting started in beekeeping inexpensively. I like the idea of helping out older beekeepers who have the knowledge but not the strength to carry on beekeeping. As you are making arrangements for this sort of thing be explicit about your availability. So much of beekeeping is spur of the moment, the weather is good now and there is something to do. Availability that depends on three or four days notice may not work out terribly well. (I have had people offer to help me but coordinating times hasn't worked out - now I no longer even try)

When I started out I did so with a friend - we each had a hive kept on land owned by a 3rd person. It helped reduce expenses as we had shared some equipment and helped us by having exposure to more hives.

A word of caution about BeeSource and other public forums - many of the posters know beekeeping well in their own area - but can expect their knowledge and ways of doing things to work everywhere. Unfortunately that just isn't so. An example would be screened bottom boards. For some beekeepers they are an integral part of their operation and they can't imagine beekeeping without them. Others (like myself) haven't experienced success with them. As you read stuff in forums be aware where people are posting from. Beekeeping in Alabama is different from beekeeping in Maine. I try in my own posts to be very cognizant of regional differences. Be aware too of inexperienced folk with lots of book learning and/or folks with ideological fixations on how beekeeping ought to work.

Most importantly find a way to overcome the financial obstacles and get started!!


----------



## sergie (Feb 20, 2012)

Acebird said:


> How did you convince them that the bees would only bother the potential criminals?


The area they where cutting through the fence was on the other side of the flight line away from hangers etc. I'll I really had to explain was that I didn't keep AHB and ensure them if the hives became an issue I would move them off the property. When I told them I was moving out of state next month one of the employee's offered to buy my hives so they could stay there and have been showing him how to care for the hives. The airport bought his gear for him... so jealous


----------



## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

sergie said:


> The airport bought his gear for him... so jealous


Didn't that end up in your pocket? It should have.


----------



## urbanoutlaw (Nov 19, 2012)

Wonderful suggestions!

I support the advice to try Craigslist. I rewrote my original ad based on input from Beesource and ended up getting more responses than I could handle. Also, don't forget to ask your local club - I ended up finding a nice yard through the efforts of another member.

And plywood boxes...I still have some left from building the DCoates nucs. If painted plywood bodies last at least one season we'd be satisfied.


----------



## urbanoutlaw (Nov 19, 2012)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> You may want to look at the veil plans at this link, courtesy of Beesource member _Katharina_:
> http://www.klamathbeekeepers.org/Be...uipment/making_your_own_veil_on_a_budget.html


I initially made this veil with the suggested tulle (sourced from Walmart). Unfortunately, I can be rough on my things and tore it a few weeks ago. So this past weekend, I made a second veil by substituting fiberglass screen (Lowes). A roll of screen fabric ran around $7 and it was sturdy enough that I was able to omit the bias tape ($1.50 a pack @ Walmart). It was also easier to work with on my machine than the tulle. I was quite pleased with the sturdiness and appearance of the final product compared to the tulle version. Lastly, it also survived first contact with the bees in perfect condition. 

The screen veil cost roughly $1 more per unit than the tulle. IMO, an extra dollar or two for materials is well worth the upgrade.


----------

