# Impact of waxborne honey bee viruses



## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Msl
This is compleetly off subject but I was watching a randy oliver vidio yesterday and his position was that bees that fight the mites was the way to go. Then he back tracked a bit and mentioned the study where the guys bees were living with out treatment but were infected with type B dwv and so were not getting the type A virus which killed hives. I am sure you remember that study. I have since also seen critizism of that study that explained that the guy was living in a bubble that some things that might happen might pop.

The thing with making vidios and honestly most studies is that they are done with what is known at the time and new stuff that comes up or adds more does not make the old stuff go away unless you are really on top of your game in keeping up with them. (which I am not). There is no question on some viruses like efb that hang around for 18 months or so that what this thread is about happens. It is sorta like using olixic acid has a rate where it has a metabolic rate that can be measured.

Of course I might be easily confused on virus versus a bug or bactiria, some living and some not living. Getting away from pure honey prodution, the question might be which come first and which comes last and bad and good. If using old comb makes sick bees and hurts honey production but also put presure on those bees to become more adapted, will the end result be that the bees will in the end become strong enough to make lots of honey. 

I get lost on the ideal of trade offs that are always mentioned because it seems that the pressures are going to be for the bees to make honey well also and so short term, there may be trade offs but long term, those trade offs might dissapear as bees get more able to handle virus. So a study showing 90 lbs compared to 160 might be a true study but ten years later as the breeding pool changes, it might not be true then.
But, for me this is just a mental exorsize, cause lots of this stuff is way over my head and so I have to relie a bit on feelings as I read each new thing.
Cheers
gww


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## Juhani Lunden (Oct 3, 2013)

msl said:


> It also makes me wonder if the mechanism behind the nonproductivey from the virus loads in the wax may be some what be involved in the mechanism of resistance... Ie somthing like higenic behavior removing sick larva and getting some mites as a bonus..


So you are thinking that bonded bees would be good at cleaning virus infected larvae and therefore survive? It is possible. But if they survive this way, remove a lot of virus infected brood, they would have to have some way to break the cycle, ie. when eating the infected removed larvae not infecting new young larvae with it and making things even worse. 

In my experience if bees have no varroa resistance they are also weaker against viruses.


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## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

As far as I am informed, on the one hand the viruses carry themselves through trophalaxis, which was the case even before the arrival of the mite and what the bees coped well with.

But as the viruses multiply in the mite, transmission through the mite, which sucks bee blood, has become the danger. Virus bomb.

It can not be the wax itself that contains the virus, but it is the fluids in the cell that are removed by the bees by eating it.
Thus, the comb is again the old transmission path and it is still the mite itself, which represents the danger.

Means: Breeding of bee lines which decimate the mites by hygienic behaviors and biting, and longer storage of old honeycombs from contaminated hives and then the combs can be reused without problems, IMHO.
Since most deadouts are in winter time, this happens mostly.


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## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

https://pub.epsilon.slu.se/9036/1/locke_b_120912.pdf


> The clinical symptoms of DWV include adult bee deformities such as deformed wings, shortened body size and abdomen, and reduced vigor and longevity (Bowen-Walker et al., 1999; Martin, 2001; Tentcheva et al., 2006; Figure 4). Although deformed bees usually have higher DWV titers than non- deformed bees, it is not the titers alone that result in deformities but rather how and when DWV is transmitted. Although DWV is the sole cause of the symptoms (Moeckel et al., 2011), they only appear naturally during circumstances of Varroa-mediated transmission during the pupal stage (Bowen-Walker et al., 1999; Yue & Genersch, 2005; Gisder et al., 2009). The mite also weakens the bee’s immune system, suppressing the expression of immune related genes and increasing viral titers in the bee, both of which reduce worker survivorship and colony fitness (Yang & Cox-Foster, 2005, 2007). Not only is DWV transmitted by the mite, but it also replicates within the mite and individual bee symptoms seem to be related to whether the virus was replicating or not in the infesting mite during the pupal stage of bee development (Yue & Genersch, 2005; Gisder et al., 2009).


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## lharder (Mar 21, 2015)

The work ongoing. A big question is how long viruses remain viable in comb and what conditions are needed to reduce viral load. I believe work is going to be done on this. 

We have an irradiation facility in BC. It may seem to be a good idea to use it... but there is probably going to be a few twists to the story.


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## msl (Sep 6, 2016)

Juhani I am just shooting spit balls, tons of reasons, could be something, could be be nothing just thinking out lowd... could be just enuf virus to effect vigor and not show any out word signs... It a little hard to get in depth with out published work so we will have to wait and see... I just thought it was instering that it could be mangmanet of the combs not an gentintic trait causing the low productivity, and the idea that slecting for productivity in a bond yard may be selecting for virus tolerance.. 

Siwolke- Her work is showing the viurs is in the wax, and transfers from wax to larva. Next up she is looking at storage time...


Wax is very costly to produce, on the order of 2 pounds of honey per deep frame. Nature does not tend to reward waist, the fact bees don't recycle wax sugests that there is a benefit to not doing so


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