# thinking ahead to the winter - what to do with empty combs?



## Yunzow (Mar 16, 2017)

Hello, all, 

I like to plan ahead, and comparing to what was going on last year, I have at least one hive that is looking decent as far as honey stores are going, so it might make it to and through the winter.

that being said, even that hive has some empty combs. It's population had maxed out during the flow, then it swarmed.

How do you store empty combs over the winter, for top bar? Do you just leave them in there? Or crush them for wax? Or store them elsewhere? I don't use a follower board BTW.

???
thomas


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Yunzow said:


> Hello, all,
> 
> I like to plan ahead, and comparing to what was going on last year, I have at least one hive that is looking decent as far as honey stores are going, so it might make it to and through the winter.
> 
> ...


I would suggest that you do use follower boards (of the design discussed already).
Then just fill the the empty portion of the hive with those empty combs.
Done.

Preserving the empty combs should be bee problem, not your problem.
While warm still, bees will patrol that area and keep the moth and such away.
Later, combs will be just there, waiting until next season, dry and clean and ready to go.
Extra insulation too by dead air space.

OK; another way - freeze for a couple of days and store in bug-tight container.
I am doing this too for any irregular combs so that I can tape them to empty frames and recycle back to the hives.

You should not just melt the combs for nothing (especially knowing that you are a beginner and have limited resources).


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## little_john (Aug 4, 2014)

Greg and I are singing from the same hymn sheet on this issue - f/boards are (imo) an essential component of all Long Hives, not just Top Bar Hives. They can be used when introducing a small colony to a large volume hive; to help guide the drawing of straight combs; when storing combs over winter; when feeding; and for clearing an old comb of brood prior to being melted-down. So many uses.

I make mine with a 2" gap at the bottom to allow bees easy access, but I've also made them full depth with several large mesh-covered holes, domino-fashion. Such boards can then be used to combine colonies prior to winter. 
LJ


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

I do not like to leave the empty comb in the hive over our humid winters. They are a moldy mess come spring time and the bees never clean them up and use them like the books say they will.

I prefer to replace the unused bars in the hive with empty bars and cycle the drawn comb through the freezer for 48 hours. Then I store them in an empty topbar hive that sits in my garage/rec room. The lights are turned on in there frequently and I haven't seen any wax moths get them in there.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

ruthiesbees said:


> ........ They are a moldy mess come spring time.........
> View attachment 42465


Well, storage mode is not the same as active usage mode.
Storage mode has totally different priorities vs. the usage mode.
You are trying to create totally opposite environments. 
Right?

But let us clarify if needs be..

Storage means you want the combs spread apart so to allow for air movements and moisture dissipation.
In my case this means I spread the TBs apart (1/2" is good) and cover them with burlap.
This way you get sufficient moisture dissipation going and yet you still block the wind blowing all over.
In addition, the moths do not like this configuration either (they like the tight and confined conditions; they avoid too much space).
If you follow this way, dry and clean combs should be there for you, pretty sure.

PS: added, a hive should allow some ventilation control at your will - plug/unplug holes and the like (not a totally sealed off coffin)
PPS: I concede that marine climate is not what I have here; I have moist but still continental climate; maybe the difference


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

ruthiesbees said:


> the bees never clean them up and use them like the books say they will.


You're kidding, the books don't speak the truth?  What are we to do?


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## AvatarDad (Mar 31, 2016)

Like Ruth, I've also had mold problems storing even a few empty combs in the hive. More than 5 or 6 and my bees seem to give up on keeping them clean.

Take the empties and freeze them. Then put them in a nuc sealed in a large yard trash bag and store this in your basement. In the spring the combs will look perfect. 

If you have combs with honey, freeze them and leave them in the freezer if you can. If not, leave those honey combs in the hive. (You don't *have* to keep honey in the freezer, but when I stored them using the trash bag method I was stressed the whole time dreading what would get at them... nothing ever did, but I was a mental wreck).


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## little_john (Aug 4, 2014)

AvatarDad said:


> Take the empties and freeze them. Then put them in a nuc sealed in a large yard trash bag and store this in your basement. In the spring the combs will look perfect.


It's interesting how different techniques work for different people - whenever I've tried bagging combs (frames) post-freezer, they became very mouldy indeed. So for me, it's either leave in hives, store indoors (post-freezer) in spare boxes with dust sheets draped over them to ensure some slight air movement, or store in non-working commercial freezers (again, post-freezer) along with a large quantity of silica gel to remove the moisture which causes mould formation.

I've often wondered whether storing combs on racks in a shed would work - protected by a bank of those UV-fly killers, to attract and kill the dreaded wax moths ?
LJ


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

little_john said:


> I've often wondered whether storing combs on racks in a shed would work - protected by a bank of those UV-fly killers, to attract and kill the dreaded wax moths ?
> LJ


I have seen a video of exactly that.
Hanging rails are constructed under the ceiling so to minimize mice chances.
The storage is cool enough do discourage moths; there is enough cool air movements to have no moth issues.
Frames are loosely positioned on those rails.
Here: just go to minute 4 unless want to see it all
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gx7PAB-DQ8c

Since I do not own such nice storage building, I have another reason to build those long hives - those hives are the storage chests for me.


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## Yunzow (Mar 16, 2017)

Thank you everyone for your replies. I got climate similar to Mike and Ruth, so maybe the in hive storage isn't the best.

Thinking about out of hive storage, I remember in dealing with pantry moths (I believe they are closely related to the wax moths), good ventilation tended to help. So I was thinking of storing the combs open with a fan blowing on them all the time. WDYT?


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

Yunzow said:


> Thank you everyone for your replies. I got climate similar to Mike and Ruth, so maybe the in hive storage isn't the best.
> 
> Thinking about out of hive storage, I remember in dealing with pantry moths (I believe they are closely related to the wax moths), good ventilation tended to help. So I was thinking of storing the combs open with a fan blowing on them all the time. WDYT?


I never had a problem with any other kind of bug or beast bothering the combs in the rec room (and we have a squirrel that lives up in that attic). A fan doesn't hurt anything, but probably isn't necessary. 

My one word of advice is however you decide to store them, don't just set them and forget them. About once a week look in and make sure something isn't tearing them up. There is no substitute for drawn comb in mid Feb to be able to insert into the brood nest to start raising the spring bees. My bees are not drawing comb at that temperature, but they will certainly care for the combs of brood during that time. (but how and when to insert them is for a whole different thread)


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## little_john (Aug 4, 2014)

There was a very good video posted here and on Beemaster last year, about storing combs using wood-ash:
https://www.beesource.com/forums/sh...frames-with-empty-combs&p=1524762#post1524762

Sadly, the link doesn't work anymore - a great pity as the video was very informative.
LJ


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## SpratMan (Jun 1, 2016)

GregV said:


> I have seen a video of exactly that.
> Hanging rails are constructed under the ceiling so to minimize mice chances.
> The storage is cool enough do discourage moths; there is enough cool air movements to have no moth issues.
> Frames are loosely positioned on those rails.
> ...


This is how I do it. I hang them on rails in my barn, 12 feet off the ground... Kindof a pain to get to but no moths. Have had a little trouble with mice. I'll put some traps up there this winter. Blenty of airflow, light and cold during the winter. The only down-side is that it does tend to attract a few bees into the barn since it is pretty close to my bee yard.


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## jaybees (Jun 7, 2010)

Here is another way!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8QSMvtEa28
Sorry., I didn't see the top bar heading.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

It is amazing how much my comb handling resembles Ruth's without us ever talking about it, and for the same reasons. Extra comb for me comes inside the house. I have a small bedroom that I confiscated for bee stuff. Last year I stored all the frames from my early fall deadouts. Honey and pollen frames included. Had no problems with wax moths until late February and it was just one or two larvae. Combs were stored in the boxes over SBBs on runners for ventilation. No mold at all. And, all that comb was ready to go early in the spring.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

JWPalmer said:


> I have a small bedroom that I confiscated for bee stuff.


Now, that is luxury!


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