# Cdl



## Bens-Bees (Sep 18, 2008)

Do you have a CDL in order to haul your bees? If so, is it just a class B, or do you have an E, F or other special endorsements added to it?

I'm asking because I have access through my wife's employer to use one of their flatbed trucks for pollination contracts (they even have nice lift-gates on them), but they require a class B CDL since the GVW is up to 33,000 lbs.


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## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

The deciding factor isn't what you are hauling but what is required for the vehicle itself(DOT regulations). I don't need a CDL to haul my bees but my truck is rated for 11,400 lbs. GVW.


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## Beee Farmer (Aug 11, 2008)

You have to add the truck GVWR and the trailer GVWR and make sure that number is below 24,000 lbs. Then you have to make sure that your actual scale weight does not exceed 24,000 lbs or you bust into CDL requirement and expose yourself to a multitude of infractions to include but not limited to; 
Operating a commercial vehicle without a CDL
no log book
no health card
if out of state no fuel permit
no triangle reflectors on vehicle
over weight ticket if over truck license weight
if you passed a weigh station 800 + for blowing the scales
and probably several more. also your vehicle and bees will be impounded at a scale yard till you are able to correct all defencies which could end you up with lots of dead bees.


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

Sorry, Beee Farmer, but you are WAYYYYYY uninformed.
As beekeepers we are among a privilaged group that avoids a lot of driver qualifications such as medical card, work history, hours of service etc depending on miles traveled away from farm.
Read the following regulations CAREFULLY and then be glad you are a bee keeper:

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regu.../fmcsrruletext.aspx?chunkKey=09016334800238a9


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## Skinner Apiaries (Sep 1, 2009)

harry. Nice. Anyone want to delve into nets and stuff here?


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

Thanks for the info and link Harry. I bet it would be a good idea and print off that reg...wonder how many Highway Patrol guys know about it?

Here in Colorado you need nets when carrying live bees. They also have been issuing warnings about using bee ropes and want you to use straps now. No tickets yet, but we are all switching to straps.


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## Bens-Bees (Sep 18, 2008)

Thanks for the info Harry, I'm going to print that off and see if my wife's boss will let me drive one without a CDL then.


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## Mathispollenators (Jun 9, 2008)

Harry is right we aren't required to carry these license. Rather than printing the section I would recommend getting the book found at any truck stop. I have one in every truck we have with a card at the page for easy access. Another thing is you'll have to follow all other requirements as far as loading, equipment and such. Because for some odd reason when the DOT and State Patrol gets shown this section they seem not to be to happy. And try to find some other infraction that they try and stick you with it.


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## jdpro5010 (Mar 22, 2007)

Sgt, I think you will be out of luck. If the GVW is more than 26000lbs. and the vehicle has commercial plates on it you will be required to have a cdl class b


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## Flathead Honey (Aug 1, 2007)

Harry is right. You can drive whatever kind of rig you want, combo grossing here up to 86,000 or in california 80,000. without a CDL. The guys at the scale house will still want to se your med card though. Regardless of whos truck it is, how its registred etc. BUT all this only applies if you are ag except according to CFR blah blah. You must be within 150 air miles of your home base... or start talking and brace yourself because you will be pleading for reduced fines. Most of the time I wish I did not have my CDL mainly because it is a federal law that with a CDL you get a DUI with bac of .04. That law is not just when driving a commercial vehichle it is when driving any vehichle. That can be two beers at a friends house, dinner and two hours later driving home bam not even buzzed and you get a DUI. I know drinking and driving dont mix but when you are off duty should you still be able to get a DUI at half everyone elses limit?

If you are going to travel outside the 150 air mile radius you need your CDL. And you might as well just get your class A interstate because anything else is worhtless and takes the same amount of time to get.


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## jdpro5010 (Mar 22, 2007)

Flathead is also right with the exception the truck must have farm plates on it. If it has comm plates you will need a cdl. I have been down this road several times with the State Highway Patrol. The other problem is if you do have farm plates on the vehicle and you are hauling somebody elses product you will not only get in trouble for not having your cdl but also have your vehicle illegally registered. Even if you have a pickup and trailer if you gross more than 26000lbs you must have a cdl and a DOT number if it does not have farm plates on it.


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## jdpro5010 (Mar 22, 2007)

Also the truly funny part about all this is that if you have one of those buses/rvs that are 40' long you don't need a cdl. So all the those old cotton tops that are heading to Florida every year driving those portable houses don't have to have a cdl. Now that is funny!


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## soupcan (Jan 2, 2005)

No it's not funny!
Most of them are dangerous!


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## coopermaple (Aug 30, 2009)

Don't forget those rv's will be towing the family suburban behind it!


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## bigbearomaha (Sep 3, 2009)

per the Nebraska State Patrol, enforcement division...

If one has the vehicle farm plated, One may operate said vehicle without a CDL within 150 miles radius of the owners farm but not across state lines.

At least in Nebraska, The exception for farmers and beekeepers is the base point of how the vehicle is plated.

You may want to contact the State Patrol in your state to see what their rules are, but the FMCSA does not over ride CDL requirements.

One may not operate a commercial vehicle with a GVW of 26,001 pounds or more, be it a straight truck or tractor-trailer combination without a CDL in the state outside of the farm plated/150 mile radius exemption. NO commercial vehicle is allowed over state lines without a CDL. 

I drive trucks for a living. One has to be careful about the exceptions and make double sure when operating with exceptions that I's are dotted and t's are crossed.

Good luck and safe driving.

Big Bear


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## Bens-Bees (Sep 18, 2008)

Yeah, my wife's boss wasn't going for the no CDL necessary thing anyway... he said, "they may not require it, but I do." So I guess I'm going to just get a Class B CDL.


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

Its all about MONEY!!!!!!!!!!1 You take your horse trailer with horses trail riding...no cdl take them to a horse show for fun win one dollar....gotta have that cdl! Guess we cant drive as well going to a show..money money money! EVERY dot guy will have a differant opinion on what you can do and none know the law about bees or very few do. I do have a cdl..had to get one to drive my 3500 w/gooseneck so I went to take test without air brakes certification....ten questions on air brakes and I failed it as I didnt study them and had never used them. Went back and got air certification..glad I did as I purchased a freightliner!


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## Skinner Apiaries (Sep 1, 2009)

But if I buy a ragtag semi, no thrills, heck no windows for all I care, and use it to move bees in and out of polli. And maybe to run equipment up and down the road its all "apiarian duties right?" What about if I go to the mill and pickup a few tons of wood? Purely to take back to the op and build more gear. Mmm. I bet my lawyer would tell me not to worry about it since everyone here with money hobby farms, and are politicians, they'd never harass a farmer... well. maybe. lol


Plus who's going to ticket me when I have 300 hives with no nets? Maybe they'll be nice and mail it to me. ha


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## sylus p (Mar 16, 2008)

jdpro5010 said:


> Also the truly funny part about all this is that if you have one of those buses/rvs that are 40' long you don't need a cdl. So all the those old cotton tops that are heading to Florida every year driving those portable houses don't have to have a cdl. Now that is funny!


So you're saying I can get a school bus and fill it with bees... I'm in.


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## rodo (Jan 12, 2006)

dot tells me, that's only hauling bees. Not equipment,feed, lumber or anything else.
Had to get DOT #, class A cdl, inspections, med card, now they say I have to keep driver qualification files and enter a drug/alcohol testing program.
All to drive a 3500HD and pull a trailer. I cross state line and over 27,000 gvwr


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

I have a CDL and the farm exemptions are just not flying anymore. Insurance companies have cracked down on "farm trucks" and what is and isn't "farm" activity. A farm truck gets in an accident, the farmer has a happy meal on the front seat and the insurance adjuster drops the insurance because he pulled through a fast food joint and that isn't farm related activity.

It does not take long to get a CDL... If you own a truck that is road worthy you can take the written and driving exam just like with any regular divers license.


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

In NC it does not look like "just any drivers license". There appears to be a far more detailed test and a separately scheduled - far more difficult - road test. Just my opinion after looking over the CDL manual.


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

I actually got mine in North Carolina. I worked for the state and they started requiring all of their maintenance workers to have a CDL. They loaned us the trucks to take the driving test in... It was three parts; a computerized test, a walk around pre-trip inspection and then a road test. That was 10 years ago though so it may have gotten harder since then.

For class A you can take the test in a dump truck with a trailer behind it....much easier than doing it in a semi. Also if you can find a truck with an automatic transmission that is a huge plus if you are not experienced at shifting a large truck. They will fail you for grinding gears.


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## bhfury (Nov 25, 2008)

In California - 26,001 Class B
Trailer greater than 10,000 Class A
3 axle motortruck class B


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## Skinner Apiaries (Sep 1, 2009)

Hey herb, were you gonna register that truck as a farm truck? Does that mean even with CDL's theyll burn you more than 150 from home? Seems like the sort of ticket you could bluff out of...


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

I don't know about other states, but Kentucky does not have a mileage limit on farm trucks. 



> Farm Vehicle (Non-Limited)
> 
> Any individual owning a truck having a gross weight of 38,000 lbs. or less may have it registered as a farm truck. The individual must sign the registration certifying that he/she meets the following requirements:
> 
> ...


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## Skinner Apiaries (Sep 1, 2009)

Yea, doesn't mean you wouldn't get a ticket going through, say, Nebraska. Sure its a solid defense, but someones still going to court. This is some real headache material.


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

That is true. We also do not have to register private trailers here, but I did register mine because it is only 20 bucks and I take it out of state. A guy I work with on the other hand has a bass boat that he hauls down to Florida a few times per year and the trailer is not registered. He say he gets stopped for it almost every trip and he always tells the officer that he is not required to have a registration on a trailer. Said it takes about 5 minutes for them to verify and they always send him on his way. He thought I should save my 20 bucks.


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## hemichuck (Oct 27, 2009)

While its true that you dont have to have a CDL for a vehicle under 26000 if you travel over 150 miles from your home base you still have to keep a log book.As far as loading your bees in a school bus goes you still need a class B with passenger endorsement to drive it,whether it has any seats or not.Not to mention an air brake endorsement if it applies.Now you could buy an old motorhome and fill it full of bee hives and take it anywhere you please.


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## Skinner Apiaries (Sep 1, 2009)

Interesting you mention the passegner endorsement. I have my little extracting room on wheels, in a schoolbus. He didnt have the endorsement and they never harassed him. 

"What you haulin' boy?" 

"15 Barrels of honey, want a jar?."

If it has no seats and is modded out, like those the farmers have and use as "flatbeds" is it even technically a schoolbus any more... Need I paint "Honey Bus" on it?


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

15 barrels of honey may require a tank endorsement

The concrete trucks I drive require a tank endorsement and only have 150 gallons water tank on them.


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## hemichuck (Oct 27, 2009)

The tricky part about school busses is that the law reads "Any vehicle DESIGNED to carry more than 12 passengers"..... designed being the key word! I am by no means saying that you will absolutely get a ticket because that all depends on the interpretation of the officer who is standing in front of you and how his day is going. I myself cannot complain about law enforcement officers because almost every encounter I have had with them I have been treated fair. And I would like to mention that in my 50 short years I have had more than my fair share of encounters with law enforcement but I have always given them the respect that their position deserves and they have always reciprocated with a fair and balanced response.I've had plenty of tickets and been carted to the crossbar hotel for a couple of nights but I didnt get anything I didnt earn. I spent my first 15 years selling produce out of an old buss on the streets of Louisville and I never remember my Dad having any trouble with the DOT or anyone else.I have driven hundreds of thousands of miles for my company without any trouble from the DOT. But when your standing in court remember the word "designed" because its the one that will get you.


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## hemichuck (Oct 27, 2009)

"What you haulin' boy?" 

"15 Barrels of honey, want a jar?."

The old saying goes"you can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar" 

Most conflicts can be resolved on the roadside with the right tone of voice and the willingness to admit that the officer is in charge.Yes sir and No sir has gotten me out of a lot of questionable situations.


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## Skinner Apiaries (Sep 1, 2009)

Hmm. I hate ambiguous laws like that. I have my lawyer's cell in my own, so I'm not disrespectful, but I am lawyered up before he even walks past my bumper. "Here's my phone, my lawyer wants to talk to you, and heres my lic and reg too." Usually it goes well, and who cares, if it turns into a charge, as far as traffic goes, it is very easy to wriggle out of, with a sum of money of course. I had a friend with 26 speeding tickets and a DUI, over about 2 years, never convicted, I don't even want to think how much money that cost him. 

Hmm I wonder if that would be an endorsement... since the tank isnt a "design feature" of the truck. haha


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

> Tank vehicle means *any commercial motor vehicle *that is designed to transport any liquid or gaseous materials within a tank that is either *permanently or temporarily attached* to the vehicle or the chassis. Such vehicles include, but are not limited to, cargo tanks and portable tanks.


Looks like farm registration would be exempt. Otherwise barrels qualify.


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## Skinner Apiaries (Sep 1, 2009)

ah so with my farm tags I can slap on my *wishlist* 500 gallon syrup tank. lol. Well I'd use farm tags for all of it regardless.


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

The NC CDL Manual seems to define requirement for Tank Endorsement as:

* A "tank vehicle" is used to carry any liquid or liquid gas in a tank of 1,000 gallons or
more.*

Trucking regs are so darn convoluted/complicated that it boggles the mind.


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## Skinner Apiaries (Sep 1, 2009)

Gov't just wants their money. The more complicated it is, the more fines and taxes they collect. It's like how rich kids could buy outta the draft in the 60's with something like 800 bucks. As long as you have money, the rules apparently don't matter.

On a serious note, reading the manuals and DOT stuff has given me a headache this morning. I'm calling it a day.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

I have been thinking about getting a CDL. I just run to Ga with my 15K truck pulling 12K trailer, both of which where maxed out. I started running them New Years day so all weigh stations where closed till I was empty on way home. In which case I am NOT pulling into weigh station. Im just an ignorant farmer moving my bees. No DOT number, no CDL but yes I know the risk was there. I have been thinking about getting my CDL, however I don't know when I will do that as I have zero access to tuck and trailer for class A with air brakes. 

I did just get my DOT number in the mail and may actually put it on the truck this spring for the trip home!


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

I believe I would get a copy of that little Federal Transportation manual where they define a beekeepers exemptions. If you passed through NC your 27K would have taken some explaining.

*NC REG:
A single or combination vehicle with a gross vehicle weight
rating (GVWR) of 26,001 pounds or more.*

According to the Feds you are legal, but I wonder if they are up on those things at the weigh stations.


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

BMAC said:


> I did just get my DOT number in the mail and may actually put it on the truck this spring for the trip home!




Why do you need a DOT number?

Don't get me wrong - I'm sure you do - suspect I do too, just wondering what the specific Fed requirement is for a truck less than 26001 carrying my own bees would be.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

When you first read the DOT regs I believe you are required to have DOT number for anything over 10K or 15K in or out of state. That was before I see the exemption. I will contact my local DOT rep and ask them about the Apiarist exemption and exactly what it means, mainly because this is all up to the interpretation of the individual who has you pulled to the side of the road and what kind of fines they expect you to pay. Personally I don't want to get a ticket in NC nad have to pay a large fine or even take the time to drive from NY to NC to fight the ticket in court. I could always hire a lawyer to do the fighting for me, but then it will cost me several hundred dollars to hire the lawyer. 

The combination rating of my truck and trailer is 33K.


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

Yea - it really looks like I need one too (DOT Number) got to get it painted on the side of the truck too. NC DMV says anthing greater than 10K. Now if I could just figure out if that exemption really means a Farm tag can take a bee truck further than 150 mi radius - i mean the definition of a Farm truck is in a different "Part" than the Apiarian exemption is in. Oh well - I'll keep workin at it.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

hpm08161947 said:


> Yea - it really looks like I need one too (DOT Number) got to get it painted on the side of the truck too. NC DMV says anthing greater than 10K. Now if I could just figure out if that exemption really means a Farm tag can take a bee truck further than 150 mi radius - i mean the definition of a Farm truck is in a different "Part" than the Apiarian exemption is in. Oh well - I'll keep workin at it.



I just got back a response from the DOT rep here in NY State. Here is his reply. I guess I will schedule and take my CDL test now and paint my DOT number on my truck.

"The exemption is applicable to the "Driver Qualification File" and its contents only.
You still need a CDL and DOT number."


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

Dang thats quick - so does that mean a Farm truck can travel more than 150 mile radius? I mean I see the farm truck definition in the FMC manual. So since my combined GVMR is less than 26001 (25950 specifically) I assume no CDL requirement.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

hpm08161947 said:


> Dang thats quick - so does that mean a Farm truck can travel more than 150 mile radius? I mean I see the farm truck definition in the FMC manual. So since my combined GVMR is less than 26001 (25950 specifically) I assume no CDL requirement.


according to NYS a farm truck dont need special tags and has to be operated by the owner within 150 miles without CDL.


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## goldenmeadowhoney (Apr 14, 2009)

*Re: IFTA fines for over 26,000lb trucks*

You guys are forgeting about the ifta and irp requirements for vehicles and or combinations over 26,000 lbs

example
If you run a ford f-550 (gvw 17,500lbs) and a trailer of 10,000lbs you will need to have an ifta sticker.

North Carolina weigh station fined me over $ 700 in December for hauling bees south using a 26,000lb ryder truck.

Yes I sort of knew I was over weight 33,000 plus lbs that fine was $ 141 
they fined us for ifta tax and irp registration plus I had to pay $ 65 for a temp fuel permit to get out of that state.

We had similiar problems in VA with fine and 2 court summones for ifta and irp

SC scales where closed and my employee ran thru the GA scale on 1-95 after they pulled him into the scale.
Drive axel was at 22,000plus lbs

I was driving a dodge 5500 (19,500gvw) and pulling a flatbed trailer all loaded with bees,I went thru all scales and had bypass signals in all.

all the states officers didn't even bring up the cdl issue, which we don't have them.

I am now applying for ifta decals for my trucks that will on occasion pull trailers that have combined weights of over 26,000 lbs and move out of the 150 air mile radius that my farm plates protects.

all our trucks are dot# and I have had safety inspections in several states that we travel in to get supplies.

my advise COMPLY !!!!! with the regs.
I am going to be in this for at least a grand.

Andy


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## goldenmeadowhoney (Apr 14, 2009)

BMAC

If you didn't go thru the scales in NC they may come after you and I think would hit you up on ifta decals/irp registration/ cdl/ and the overweight fine

When we where getting fined in the weigh station I ask the revenuer if a smaller truck had to go into the station ,she said yes.

If you are driving a truck and trailer that is probably overweight but the drive axel is not you will most likely be signaled for bypass.

owe and yes they do come after you !!! we saw the trooper go after a truck that blew by the scales.

Andy


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

goldenmeadowhoney:
You scare me! I can't afford those kind of fines. I talked to the Sargent at the I95 scale house today. He told me to get weighted tags for my GMC (25950 gvmr) to cover my load. He also said to get it weighed empty (curb weight) and to find out what 200 hives weigh so that I don't go over my 25950 gvmr. He also said Farm tags >150 miles radius would get me a ticket sect 391.2 exemption or not! Also he said get DOT Number and Business name and paint it on truck side doors + get a Federal Inspection. Also he said no worries with IFTA or IRP since <26001. I also asked him just what the FMC 391.2 Apiarian Exemption got me - he said - not much - just a way to not have to have a CDL. And this guy was supposed to be the "Local Expert". I am beginning to wonder if I found another "Expert" I'd get a completely different set of answers. Oh well - off to find out the Curb Weight.


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## goldenmeadowhoney (Apr 14, 2009)

The magic # is under 26,000 lbs if you are over welcome to ifta
that's why ryder didn't tell us about it because we where supposed to be under 26,000 lbs if you plan on carrying 200 hives you are going to be over.

it seems that when you go thru the scales its that drive axel weight that will pull you into the scale and have to deal with a person that will want to see all your credentials.

I am going to hire a semi to get my bees back up north
NC is brutal

If you reg. your truck with farm tags then you don't need irp registration if you are on commercial tags and drive out of state then you need irp
same goes for ifta -if you operate in two or more states and have a combined weight over 26,001 lbs ifta is required. Ifta is run thru the states revunue collection agency and has nothing to do with dot or fmcsa it's about getting there share of fuel tax monies.
i.e.
you fuel up your truck in NY and pay fuel tax in NY but tavel the roadways of PA, VA and SC well all those states want a share of that fuel tax.
It's a whole bunch of record keeping

good luck and next time I travel thru NC it's going to be on a sunday!!!


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Well it almost appears to just be done with the hassle of trying to run your own bees and hire a driver to run them for 2 bucks a mile.

Andy,

Please tell me do you feel its still worth moving your own bees or better to have a bee hauler?

I can easily leave my F450 registration at 15K with a small tag behind trailer for my loader.


This IRP crap. Do you have to register in every state and pay 100's of dollars in every state you drive thru?


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

You got it, talk to ten differant DOT officers adn get ten differant answers! Its all up to how the officer reads it. You can run farm tags IF all you haul is YOUR stuff. I run farm tags on my freightliner at 55,000 #. I have been pulled over numerous times with no problems. Apiary exemption get you no health cetficate but you need a CDL unless you listen to a Fl DOT officer who told a friend they were EXEMPT from everything. He is a officer (boss) and if you read the DOT manual it covers everything but in exemptions it says bees, beeswax, honey ect and I believe he is right. THey carry a letter from him and for 3+ yrs havent had a DOT number, ifta ect. They do have a CDL. they drive demi with 24' flatbed with a 20 ft tag trailer hauling 400+ hives with 80,000 gvw. Its all about how a officer reads the manual. Guess I need a letter from that officer
!


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## goldenmeadowhoney (Apr 14, 2009)

suttonbeeman

but do you have ifta decals from your home state? if you are on farm tags then IRP does not apply

any truck over 10,000 lbs in intrastate commerce needs a dot #
it's just away of government keeping track of what your doing

BMAC
that would be fine as long as your gross combined weight registered or actual is under 26,000 lbs.

Both my trucks and trailers have farm tags and the trailers do not have a registered weight or vin #s that a dot officer can look up the registered weight.They still can look under the trailer or look at the tire rating and see the weight the trailer is capable of hauling.

I sanded of vin # on one of my trailers, got stopped in VT by dot and because he could not make a determination that my combo weight was over 26,000 lbs
let me off of the cdl class B requirement


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

goldenmeadowhoney said:


> suttonbeeman
> 
> but do you have ifta decals from your home state? if you are on farm tags then IRP does not apply
> 
> ...



So on average what do you have to pay for IRP fees for the states you travel in each year? If its mostly just an idiotic paper shuffle then I would entertain the idea of hauling my bees. Maybe I will just stick with the Saturday afternoon/Sunday hauls. It's only from NY to Ga.


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## goldenmeadowhoney (Apr 14, 2009)

bmac

irp is the apportionment of registration fees on trucks over 26,000lbs to states in which you travel.

I am not sure on how it applies to combined truck/trailers 
if you have farm tags I think you should be fine

ifta decals,you would apply to your home state of NY for cheap money in mass it is $8.00 per vehicle (2 decals)
but you will have to keep records of fuel purchased and miles traveled in each state, then would have to file with home state on how those fuel taxes and if any taxes are owed be apportioned to states in which you traveled.

for me I have a 19,500 gvw truck and a 17,500 gvw truck both by themselves are exempt from ifta,but when I connect a swinger trailer or a 10,000lb flat deck trailer they now fall under ifta. After all the fines I will have to pay it is safer to apply for ifta and put the **** decals on those trucks so we can make it down south.

it only takes 1 dot officer to stop you and apply ALL the regulations and penalties to you and make some good $$$ for his state.


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## brushmouth (Jan 17, 2010)

BMAC said:


> So on average what do you have to pay for IRP fees for the states you travel in each year? If its mostly just an idiotic paper shuffle then I would entertain the idea of hauling my bees. Maybe I will just stick with the Saturday afternoon/Sunday hauls. It's only from NY to Ga.


Trust me, you will never make it without that IFTA sticker.
State finances are negative, each state has their DOT on guard to extract the honey money in your wallet. (until its dry...LOL)
It's a little about safety and a lot about money. 
Best have a log book that is up to date, nice and neat, you can smile when they ask to see it. 
If the DOT finds one violation, they promptly turn into wolves over a fresh kill.
Stay legal it's a lot less stressful and costs less, or hire a bee-hauler.
BM 

5F outside 51.4F inside (top cover)


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## HVH (Feb 20, 2008)

I know this is an old thread but I can't get a straight answer regarding air brakes and an exemption for farmers. I thought I would buy a 15,000 lb international with a GVWR of about 33,000 lbs and stay within the 150 mile radius requirement long enough to get used to the truck and then take a cdl test later (the truck has air brakes). The question I can't get an answer for is - do I need to take the air brake test and will the 33,000 GVWR be a problem considering the 26,000 lb cutoff? I will likely add a trailer and fork lift at some point but what I don't understand is whether to consider the real combined weight when loaded or the ratings from the listed and combined GVWR's. In other words, do you get busted for being above 26000 lbs on the scale or by driving a truck rated at 33,000 lbs plus a trailer rated at 14,000 lbs? Also, do you have to take a test to get an "F endorsement for farmers?


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

If truck is rated at 26k you can haul 26k on it plus trailer rating. All that adds up to total weight truck has to be tagged for (ky). From what Fl told me truck is tagged for its weight and trailer tagged for its weight....not same everywhere.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Just take the test. The knowledge you gain will be worth it. For example, what is that 1/2 inch acme bolt with the bayonet lugs you see on the side of the brake canister used for? Or - What will happen when you remove the cap with the platic plug in it from the back of the brake canister. Knowing the answers may be the difference between your life or death.


I have had a BCD CDL. for 20 years, my son and I maintain 10 quad axle dump trucks.

Roland


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## HVH (Feb 20, 2008)

suttonbeeman said:


> If truck is rated at 26k you can haul 26k on it plus trailer rating. All that adds up to total weight truck has to be tagged for (ky). From what Fl told me truck is tagged for its weight and trailer tagged for its weight....not same everywhere.


 If it is rated at 33k and your GVW is 26k lbs on the scale, which number is important?


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## HVH (Feb 20, 2008)

Roland said:


> Just take the test. The knowledge you gain will be worth it. For example, what is that 1/2 inch acme bolt with the bayonet lugs you see on the side of the brake canister used for? Or - What will happen when you remove the cap with the platic plug in it from the back of the brake canister. Knowing the answers may be the difference between your life or death.
> 
> 
> I have had a BCD CDL. for 20 years, my son and I maintain 10 quad axle dump trucks.
> ...


I don't have a problem reading the info and learning what is safe; I just hate all the red tape and the enforcement crud that is used to generate state revenue. If I can read the manuals and just get a farm exemption then I will be happy. None of this stuff is rocket science and I just want to haul some bees around without big brother following my every move.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

To answer the scale question:

There are two potential "rubs" . What is the truck licensed for? The dump trucks can licensed for 73,000 lbs gross. If I am over that, I get an overweight ticket. If the plate is for less, the truck can carry the weight, but you would be over the liscensed rating, and get an over weight ticket.

What are you licensed for? If your CDL , or lack of it, is exceeded, that goes against your license, and points will be accessed. 

Again, I would highly recommend getting the training for the CDL. It is not rocket science, but you have the ability to gravely injure others with a heavily loaded commercial vehicle. This is more of a safety issue than anything else. I have fixed too many "bad things" that have happened to trucks. The potential to do damage is inc increadable(sp?). The last wreck had 1 inch thick bolts sheared off.

Or maybe I am just an old "Shepard of the highway" 

Roland


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## Thermwood (May 29, 2010)

What they look at is what the vehicle is rated at for GVWR, then you must be sure your license will cover it. I would get a class A and be done with it.

I would suggest going down to DMV and take the written tests- General Knowledge, Combination, and Airbrakes. Then you have a year to take the actual driving test which includes the walkaround inspection.

As for logbook, you would not have any issues with your hours just going to CA, couple minutes per trip filling it out would be one less thing for them to ticket you for.


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## HVH (Feb 20, 2008)

I think I will wait another year when I am up to 500 colonies. For now I will rent a truck or get someone else to haul.

How can you get proficient at driving a truck without a license? How do you pass the driving test without being proficient? 

What do you all think about the apiarian exemption below from the FMCSA

< 391.1	391.11 >
Related Links
Disclaimer
Interpretation
Help
General 

§391.2 General exemptions.
(a) Farm custom operation. The rules in this part do not apply to a driver who drives a commercial motor vehicle controlled and operated by a person engaged in custom-harvesting operations, if the commercial motor vehicle is used to—

(a)(1) Transport farm machinery, supplies, or both, to or from a farm for custom-harvesting operations on a farm; or

(a)(2) Transport custom-harvested crops to storage or market.

(b) Apiarian industries. The rules in this part do not apply to a driver who is operating a commercial motor vehicle controlled and operated by a beekeeper engaged in the seasonal transportation of bees.

(c) Certain farm vehicle drivers. The rules in this part do not apply to a farm vehicle driver except a farm vehicle driver who drives an articulated (combination) commercial motor vehicle as defined in §390.5. (For limited exemptions for farm vehicle drivers of articulated commercial motor vehicles see §391.67.)

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regu.../fmcsrruletext.aspx?chunkKey=09016334800238a9


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## Thermwood (May 29, 2010)

Just read the handbook: http://www.dmvnv.com/pdfforms/dlbookcomm.pdf
then take the 3 written tests, you will get a "learner's permit" that is good for a year. If you need experience have a licensed driver ride with you till you are comfortable on your own, then take the "driving" test.

A few years ago I wouldn't have been concerned but today they want revenue and will go to great lengths to lighten you wallet.


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## kbenz (Feb 17, 2010)

was looking on ncdot and seen this 
("You should not suffer from chronic diseases such as heart trouble, seizure disorders, high or low blood pressure, fainting or dizzy spells, diabetes, or any other physical or mental disability that could reduce driver control, and you must never use narcotics, drugs or abuse alcoholic beverages.")

I have high blood pressure and diabetes( both well under control ) I guess this rules me out?


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## bigbearomaha (Sep 3, 2009)

DOT has ranges to measure diabetes and high blood pressure. For example, DOT requires any blood sugar test to be under 200 or you cannot drive.

If you are known to have an issue like diabetes and it is manageable with medication (you cannot be taking insulin, automatic out) then you are required to take DOT physical once a year or as often as every 3 months.

Big Bear


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Big bear is right, they are really cracking down on diabetic drivers. What will trip you up is a minor traffic violation, such as running a red light(daily occourance in a dump truck), then they have an excuse to pull your license for diabetic issues. 

Roland


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## kbenz (Feb 17, 2010)

I control mine with diet. unless I get stupid (eating wise) it is never even close to 200


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## bigmitch (May 1, 2010)

i have 30 years behind the wheel of a big rig,,,,,,,you should get some training to haul heavy loads !!!!if you get your brakes hot,,what are you gonna do? learn how to handle a heavy truck,,,and if you are pulling a trailer,,,,get more training,,,you ever see someone pulling a little trailer down a hill and it is going from the 1st lane to the 3rd lane,,,with some training you can avoid it. weather or not you are going to have a cdl,,,get some training on how to handle heavy loads! you dont want to get into a wreck,or hurt or kill anyone,or your bees. ps: i have a cdl and am looking for work,if you need someone to drive your truck,i have a great driving record,and will work part time for you.


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