# Dadant, Credit Card Theft



## MiBees (Aug 9, 2016)

Good luck with law enforcement. Usually the credit card company (in your case Master Card) will do a fraud investigation on the bogus charges not Dadant and should give you feedback. My experience with Dadant is they have very good products but their office people are not very helpful. I have had issues following up on an order status and when I give them their order number they can't find it in their system, and once I placed an order and selected FedEx delivery (which they billed my account for) and they shipped it USPS which was a lower rate and I had to call to get them to credit the difference. Compared to Mann Lake or Betterbee they need to step it up a notch. Just my opinion.


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## DaisyNJ (Aug 3, 2015)

Bugged cell phones ? 

* Someone would have to bug your phone, 
* Listen to it all the time or reliably transcribe voice all the time, 
* Then know when you are talking about ordering stuff
* Capture the CC details
* Distribute them 
* Use them

I want to know what Dadant folks are drinking in their morning coffee. I am sure certain three letter agencies would be very interested in such a reliable solution. 

Time to start putting things in writing. Find their corporate email address, fax numbers and send them things in writing, along with any screenshots of charges etc, shipping addresses etc. 

I deal with ecommerce fraud. Sad part of all this is, there are technical tools available for little to no cost that let the companies trace with little to no effort. Fraud within two hours is typical of employee / inside job, unless their networks are bugged to the rim and hooked into blackmarket sites directly. 

Make sure you tell them (Dadant) that their reputation is at stake and you are willing to take this to every avenue at your disposal. And dont forget their Facebook page. 

Sorry, ID Theft and CC issues bug me like nothing else.


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## stan.vick (Dec 19, 2010)

Thanks for posting, I have always used mannlake and Kelly, but was making a list to order from Dadant for my first time, to give them a try, thanks for saving me the trouble.


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## ShrekVa (Jan 13, 2011)

Thank you for sharing, I hope a Dadant rep sees your post. That is ridiculous not communicating with you, please share how things go with them.


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## Western (May 29, 2016)

Thanks for posting. I just received last of 2 orders I made through their online site, in my case (so far) all went smooth. In light of the poor treatment you have received, I will order from other sites. 

Being former LEO, I agree with poster Daisy above, not much different than a waitress lifting a card number imo. 2 hrs from a Dadant store a couple hrs after the purchase, family or friend likely got new camera and sewing machine. Typically not much a merchant can do, but if they are made aware that within hr after receiving verbal cc info over the phone, items where purchased and shipped close to their store makes you suspect. Telling you your phone was bugged, is absurd, you may have spoken to the person that stole your number, you'd think this would be of great concern to their corp office.


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## bkpr757 (Jan 18, 2015)

buddygold said:


> I placed my order for 2500 frames with Dadant in Florida over the phone. They wouldn't take my American Express so I took out my Master Card which I hadn't used in over a year. Within in 2 hours of giving my credit Card information to them, charges started showing up for Camera Equipment from New York and a $400.00 sewing machine from California.
> 
> I immediately called Dadant and was told they had no Idea how that could have happened. I asked them to have their Manager call me but he never did.
> 
> ...


PayPal for me,that way they do not get cc info,been there.


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## bee keeper chef (Nov 1, 2015)

I use Dadant all the time I find them to be cheaper than Mann lake even with shipping on foundation and frames. Several times a year they have free shipping you just have to watch for that. Never had a problem with Dadant


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## rv10flyer (Feb 25, 2015)

It sure would be nice to have had the camera and sewing machine orders intercepted upon delivery by LEO. CC companies and stores would not provide that information when it happened to me TWICE, over the last 5 yrs. They knew better. The CC company reversed the charges and I did not hear anything again. With today's drug problems and many company's lack of random testing, I can see where these issues can arise. 

I just drive 45-90 minutes, write a check and bring the goods home with me.


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## Hillbillybees (Mar 3, 2016)

You have done this i'm sure but immediately call your bank that issued your card and dispute those charges as fraud. Dadant has a breach and its going to cost them. You did them a favor by letting them know. It may have just started. It can cost thousands for a company to make a data breach like that correct. It damages every company that has a breach. I'm glad you caught it so quickly.


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## Dadantcorp (Mar 2, 2017)

We apologize for your recent experience with Dadant and Sons, Inc. We take matters like this very seriously and have been conducting an internal review into security procedures. Our credit card procedures have been approved by the Payment Card Industry as required. No other instances have been reported. As we had discussed on the phone, we will take every step possible to make sure this never happens. We were waiting to see what the authorities reported to you about the delivery. We hope you have now received your replacement frames for your broken frame as promised. Flu season here in the Midwest kept many of us out of the office so we apologize for not getting back to you sooner. Steve Martin (Dadant corporate office)


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

While I appreciate Dadant taking the time to create an account solely to respond to this thread, the response appears to be fairly manila. Who knows what happened, but it's most likely an internal leak on office staff. To say your procedures are "approved by the Payment Card Industry as required" seems a little dodgy. 

Personally, I've had three interactions with Dadant over the past 13 years (that I can remember). The first I saw them at a bee meeting, bought a tub of Apiguard and a honey in the comb book. They handed me the Apiguard, but told me they'd have to mail me the book (with no shipping charges, so that's cool). I received 11 copies of the honey in the comb book in the mail (when I ordered one). Apparently the person shipping got confused and couldn't understand why I paid $112 for a $12 book, said "*F* it" and mailed me 11 books. I called it out to Dadant, who told me to just keep the books. Error in my favor, but still a little odd.

The second was when I went to EAS in Vermont. At the time I was selling some equipment on the side to local individuals in NC, fairly low volume. I asked one of the sales reps if he'd be willing to give me special pricing as a retailer. I was told, verbatim from an owner of the company "Why would I want to do that? I sell more equipment than I can make already." Seemed a little off putting, but ok. I get the point. So I asked if they'd be willing to give me a bulk order quote instead. They said that would be fine, to call their office, but since they knew I'd be reselling it I was told they "better not find me selling it for a higher price than we sell it for." Again, seemed a little off putting, so I went with someone else.

Third time I bought a smoker. No issues in either direction.

I generally go with Mann Lake or Brushy Mountain. Less hassle, attitude and confusion, still good quality items.


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## My-smokepole (Apr 14, 2008)

I to have got to the point I think very little of some of their personnel too. Sometime I get to much some time am shorted. Billed after I have paid for things. How do you forget to bring a extractor that is order to a show? Things like that.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

bkpr757 said:


> PayPal for me,that way they do not get cc info,been there.


Best answer so far.

Also, for me, nearly all e commerce sites I buy from are foreign so I only do PayPal. But for those sites who don't do PayPal, I have a card for internet purchases only, it has a $500 limit and if I need to spend more than that I deposit what's needed to the card at the time. 

Buddygold it's not impossible your phone is hacked it happens. But 99/100 Dadant have a rat. Delivery addresses for the fraudulently purchased goods are a lead that should be fully worked.


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## SWM (Nov 17, 2009)

Another example of someone trashing a reputable company while an investigation of the issue is still in progress. After reporting it to both Dadant and your credit card company it's inappropriate to make accusations that have no basis in fact until the investigation is complete. 

Also maybe I misunderstood you, but if you were actually making a big deal out of one frame being damaged on a shipment of 2500 then that tells me everything I need to know.


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## Branman (Aug 20, 2003)

In my opinion, he only stated fact in his original post. One can infer whatever one likes, but that is such a suspicious set of circumstances that anyone would be led to believe that someone at Dadant is responsible. The simplest explanation is usually correct.


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

Having quite a bit of background in resolving card theft / misuse, etc., I can say that the issue is first between the consumer who experienced the card misuse and the issuing bank...in this case the bank that sent you the MasterCard. Regulation allows a claim by the customer to the issuing and settling card company to be provisionally honored (up to a certain amount and within a certain time period) while the bank investigates. Normally in the case of card theft, the provisional credit becomes a permanent credit very quickly. 

The bank works with the biller (in this case Dadant) to determine the cause of the theft or misuse. In some cases, the bank may require the customer to sign an affidavit so that law enforcement can become involved. Many times, local enforcement will not expend resources without a signed affidavit but some will and it also depends on the nature of the offense. 

The issuing bank rarely shares their findings with anyone, usually because the information is sensitive (who was hacked, how, etc.). Same goes for law enforcement. With larger hacks that affect industry giants, there is usually a public statement by the biller (retailer, wholesaler, etc.) which is often a requirement of publicly traded companies. There is rarely a statement from small companies. In fact, they may never know that a customer had a card problem which was settled by the card issuer. 

PCI standards, as mentioned by Dadant, is exactly what each company that uses card settling procedures need to follow to be certified. That said, there are hundreds of thefts each day in companies following PCI standards to the letter. In one case that we were involved with, a hacker was caught who had placed a bluetooth skimming device over a hotel ATM machine. He then sat in the restaurant and received wireless information allowing him to capture the transaction (it's a little more complicated but you get the idea). A card printing device was in his van in the parking lot and within a few hours he had collected info, printed and used (or sold for use) credit and debit cards. In this case, the claim was against the issuing bank. The ATM owner would be involved as would be the hotel. Our bank knew because we were on the hook to issue the customer refunds even though it wasn't our ATM. And in this case, all PCI standards were followed. It was tech driven theft, not bad service. Many of the claims that we receive originate in coffee shops with free wireless and involve purchases made on a phone where the entire purchase was captured before the info even got to the merchant. In one case last year, the credit card info was simply written down by someone they sat beside at an airport while the customer read the number over the phone. The crook just eavesdropped. 

If Dadant has someone inside actually stealing customer information then law enforcement and the company need to be involved. 
If it's electronic theft, then the bank and maybe law enforcement need to respond. 
Your loss from card abuse is handled by MasterCard but first by the issuing bank.
Your single crushed frame should certainly be replaced or a credit issued by Dadant.
The progress or results of any investigation is likely private and should stay that way or at least certainly not prosecuted on the web.
Any additional compensation by Dadant would be enormously generous on their behalf.
Dadant should be commended for jumping on board here (WELCOME by the way). Social media doesn't always make things easier on a business.


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## buddygold (Sep 13, 2016)

My Credit Card company is Capital One. I hate to not use them in lieu of American Express because they are everything they claim to be. They are absolutely no hassle when it came to booking airline tickets or using your points to pay your bill or anything else they advertise. When I called them after receiving an email alert about possible fraudulent charges, they were more concerned that I understood I was not responsible for the charges then they were about the charges. I have already received an email conformation that the charges were removed from my account. 

While I did not hear from Dadant directly, I received a box with 10 frames in it from them. Unfortunately one of the frames had a staple shot thru the side of one of the frames and when I was pulling it out of the packaging I didn't see it until I was pulling it out of the side of my finger. Go figure LOL. Law Enforcement has yet to respond to my request for an update on the investigation. I don't know if Dadant takes Paypal. But I would have used it had I known.


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## mbevanz (Jul 23, 2012)

Clay and all the staff in Frankfort, KY are great to deal with.


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