# Lazy Beekeeping idea #1 Top entrances



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

In the past few years I've canged most of how I keep bees. Most of it was to make it less work. I'm now keeping about fifty hives with about the same work I used to put into four. So I'll post a topic for each of the things I've changed and, if anyone wants, we'll discuss it.

I've gone to only top entrances. No bottom entrance. I know there are all kinds of people who either hate them or thing they cure cancer, or double your honey crop. I like them and here's why:

1) I never have to worry about the bees not having access to the hive because the grass grew too tall. I also don't have to cut the grass in front of the hives. Less work for me.

2) I never have to worry about the bees not having access because of the snow being too deep (unless it gets over the tops of the hives). So I don't have to shovel snow after a snow storm to open the entrances up.

3) I never have to worry about putting mouse guards on or mice getting into the hive.

4) I never have to worry about skunks or opposums eating the bees.

5) Combined with a SBB I have very good ventilation in the summer.

6) I can save money buying (or making) simple migratory style covers. Most of mine are just a piece of 3/4" plywood with shingle shims for spacers. But some are wider notches in inner covers that I already had.

7) In the winter I don't have to worry about dead bees clogging the bottom entrance.

8) I can put the hive eight inches lower (because I don't have to worry about mice and skunks) and that makes it easier to put that top super on and get it off when it's full.

9) This works nicely for long top bar hives when I put supers on because the bees have to go in the super to get in.

10) With some styrofoam on the top, there's not much condensation with a top entance in the winter.

Anyone have anything else to add for advantages? Or anything you disagree with? Anyone else come to the same conclusions? Opposite conclusions?

I'll post more as I get time. See my web site if you want to see some simple top entrances by propping up migratory covers.


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## power napper (Apr 2, 2005)

Just a simple question here Michael Bush. I am going to try the top entrances this year. The question is this:
If the opening in the top entrance would be greater than say 3/8 ths of an inch what would stop a mouse from climbing up the outside of the hive to enter? Is it just the fact that there is not enough space for a mouse to enter? Mice just seem to have an uncanny ability to get into where they are not wanted. Or is it the fact that you place hardware cloth over the top entrance. Thanks.


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## izduz (Apr 28, 2005)

Do you find alot more pollen mixed in with the honey when you pull the supers?


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## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

I'm curious why a top entrance doesn't create a problem with rain getting in the entrance and running down thru the hive.
I guess if it was a problem Michael would have recognized it
I was thinking perhaps a regular telecoping cover with a lip on all 4 sides to prevent this would be a good idea

Dave


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## Patrick Scannell (Jul 3, 2004)

Dave, I used a dozen shimmed-migratory-lid top entrances this past summer and did have enough driven rain in the hives that in the future I'm going to use a more rain proof top entrance.

An over-sized telescoping lid with a shimmed inner cover is the idea.


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## Fuzzy (Aug 4, 2005)

Just can't resist. Michael worries too much.

Grass -- Puts a barrier between the bees and myself. Forces them to fly over therefore fewer stings.
Snow -- Never snows here
Mice -- Cat's job security. OR, leave a box of Dcon under the hive.
Skunks -- no skunks around here
Possom -- Dog's job. OR, a 22 bullet
Ventilation -- Slide the top back 1/2 inch bees still use the bottom 100% of the time
Hive tops -- maybe
Dead bees on bottom -- What do you expect.. you pile snow around the hive.. it's tough to clean house.
Lower height -- perhaps you are just too short


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>If the opening in the top entrance would be greater than say 3/8 ths of an inch what would stop a mouse from climbing up the outside of the hive to enter?

Mine are just 3/8" or so. I've never seen a mouse in a hive with only a top entrance even if that's on a horizontal hive and only 11 1/2" off the ground (counting the stand and all)

>Is it just the fact that there is not enough space for a mouse to enter?

3/8" even for a bottom entrance often seems to deter the mice. Certainly more than a 3/4" entrance.

> Mice just seem to have an uncanny ability to get into where they are not wanted.

Yes they do.

>Or is it the fact that you place hardware cloth over the top entrance.

I do not put a mouse guard on any of the top entrances and have never had a mouse in one of the hives with top entrances.

>Do you find alot more pollen mixed in with the honey when you pull the supers? 

I help another man extract who runs queen excluders and botom entrancs. I think he has a lot more pollen in his supers than I do. I don't use an excluder and have only top entrances.

>I'm curious why a top entrance doesn't create a problem with rain getting in the entrance and running down thru the hive.

I run long hives with three migratory covers. It seems likely that it drips between the cracks, and yet I never see any damage from this. I'm sure if the wind is just right and the rain is hard enough a little gets in the very front. But it doesn't penetrate into the hive much. The gap is only 3/8" at the most and 1/4" at the least. I considered that this might be problem and considered putting an overhang on it, but I'm afraid the wind will catch the top more and a top blown off would be worse. One could simply put a solid bottom board with the 3/8" side down on top to make a top entrance. I've done this as well, but put a concrete block on because I was afraid it would blow off.

>I was thinking perhaps a regular telecoping cover with a lip on all 4 sides to prevent this would be a good idea

If you prop an inner cover with shims and put a telescopic on slide forward it works fine for an upper entrace. It would also stop the draft more in the winter. Just don't get sloppy and forget to slide the outer cover forward to expose the entrance.

>An over-sized telescoping lid with a shimmed inner cover is the idea. 

I've done that as well. But only because I have a lot of telescopic and inner covers.


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

What are you doing at the bottom??


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I cut a one by two the width of the opening and nailed it in to completely block the bottom entrance. These are all SBB.


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## Robert Hawkins (May 27, 2005)

How do you harvest pollen and propolis?

Hawk


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## warrior (Nov 21, 2005)

Michael, have you noticed any effect on brood production? I spotted a couple comments on the web concerning top entrances. One stated that top entrances acted as a deterrant to SHB I took it to mean due to being smaller and easier to defend. Another comment stated that an entrance above the brood nest reduced brood production, this comment claimed by up to 50%. I found that to be far fetched.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>How do you harvest pollen and propolis?

I'm buying a Sundance II trap for the pollen. I've never tried to harvest propolis.
>Michael, have you noticed any effect on brood production?

No.

> I spotted a couple comments on the web concerning top entrances. One stated that top entrances acted as a deterrant to SHB

Interesting. Seems unlikely but I've never dealt with SHB.

>I took it to mean due to being smaller and easier to defend.

It's whatever size you make it.

>Another comment stated that an entrance above the brood nest reduced brood production, this comment claimed by up to 50%. I found that to be far fetched.

I think it's just as far fetched as the people who claim it will double your honey production to have the top entrance, which I've heard.

The bees don't care and don't really do anything any differently.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Actually maybe I should take that back. When the skunks where pestering the hives, which was my main motivation at the time I went to top entrances, and I went to top entrances it DID double my honey production once the skunks weren't eating all the bees. But double just meant it went back to normal.


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## FordGuy (Jul 10, 2005)

Mr. Bush, I have suggested to you completely doing away with the bottom board and I never followed up to see what you thought. My thoughts are as long as you are not even using the bottom entrance, the 5/8 bee space at the bottom, whynot just screen the entire bottom? 

I am on a limited budget these days, and just can't see purchasing 10-20 screened bottom boards so I end up teaming up with another guy and making them from scratch. But if I could get rid of the need for a bottom board I'd be a happy man. Seems like you could just set a super with screen bottom on 4 cinder blocks and be done with it. 

what am i missing with this? thanks.


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

I was hoping for some labor savings at the bottom end. I hate building bottom boards.


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## Laurence Hope (Aug 24, 2005)

Ross, I'm not much handy to build anything, so I save a lot of labor. I decided I'd sell more honey (there are many creative ways to do so) and buy most of my wooden needs. I can even buy migratory tops (cleats attached) from a pallet recycler who has access to 3/4" plywood, for less than I can buy the lumber. I haven't tried him for bottoms yet, but plan to soon. Look around. There may be many options hiding in your locality.


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## Laurence Hope (Aug 24, 2005)

Under a little different note of upper openings,I have been reading about establishing an opening on the bottom honey super. The idea is to leave the bottom entrance open, but add another in the first honey super. There should be a queen excluder on the brood box top. The idea being that the field bees can bypass the brood when they want to store nectar. Does this even make sense? It sounds good, but I'm a rookie. Even though, I thought I might try it this year. Whaddya think?


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

I thought about just attaching #8 hardware cloth to the bottom box and calling it done, but then you can't easily rotate boxes if you need to.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>My thoughts are as long as you are not even using the bottom entrance, the 5/8 bee space at the bottom, whynot just screen the entire bottom? 

I've done it. The frames will be resting on and proplized to the screen. Sometimes the bottom bars of the frames will come off when you try to pull the frames.

You need at least 1/4" space at the bottom. I prefer 3/4" But a bottom could be pretty simple. Or you could build a slatted rack and just cover the bottom of it with hardware cloth. I've done that. Then you still have a beespace at the bottom.

>I am on a limited budget these days, and just can't see purchasing 10-20 screened bottom boards so I end up teaming up with another guy and making them from scratch. But if I could get rid of the need for a bottom board I'd be a happy man.

Because the Langstroths basically have top bee space you'll have no bee space with no bottom board.

>what am i missing with this? thanks.

No bottom beespace?

>The idea being that the field bees can bypass the brood when they want to store nectar. Does this even make sense?

If you use an excluder, sure. I don't. But then a top and bottom with none in the middle will work just as well. Why not just retire the excluder, use all the same sized boxed and the bees won't have to work so hard and you won't have to work so hard.









>I thought about just attaching #8 hardware cloth to the bottom box and calling it done, but then you can't easily rotate boxes if you need to.

Another disadvantage.


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## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

I would be curious, in areas with SHB, if a solid bottom (no screen, unless over a solid bottom tray) might reduce SHB problems. The larvae, as I understand their life cycles, pupate in the soil around the hives. Top entrances only might make it much more difficult for them to reach soil for pupation. Any thoughts?


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## Drugstore (Dec 6, 2005)

Michael B...
What do you do about, or I should say, how are all the dead bees removed from the bottom of the closed hive?

"If you use an excluder, sure. I don't. But then a top and bottom with none in the middle will work just as well. Why not just retire the excluder, use all the same sized boxed and the bees won't have to work so hard and you won't have to work so hard."

How do you keep that queen bee out of 9 frame supers without an excluder?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I would be curious, in areas with SHB, if a solid bottom (no screen, unless over a solid bottom tray) might reduce SHB problems. The larvae, as I understand their life cycles, pupate in the soil around the hives. Top entrances only might make it much more difficult for them to reach soil for pupation. Any thoughts?

I've never dealt with SHB, but as I understand the larvae are pretty mobile. I don't know if it would mess with their instincts. I don't know how they find their way out of the hive. It sounds like it would be an interesting experiement to try.

>What do you do about, or I should say, how are all the dead bees removed from the bottom of the closed hive?

Most of the time the bees keep up with it and haul them out the top. Sometimes at the end of the winter they have built up some on the bottom board. But I see the same thing WITH a bottom entrance. In the fall I sometimes find a few and I dump them off when I happen to be down that far into the hive.

>How do you keep that queen bee out of 9 frame supers without an excluder?

I don't even try. But the queen is trying to lay brood in a brood nest. That's comb that falls in a certain range of diameter and is approximately 1/2" deep (1" counting both sides). In a 10 frame box with 9 frames in it the comb is usually much deeper than she wants to lay in anyway. But if she does lay in the supers, I really don't care. I have all the same size frames and I can always move them up or down as I wish. If the queen needs more room to lay, would you rather she swarmed or layed in the supers?


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## kbee (Mar 6, 2005)

Michael, I agree with Drugstore, Does't dead bees and other hive debris pile up on the bottom of the hive? Even with SBBs dead bees and cappings and stuff wouldn't fall through. How often do you have to get in there and clean the SBB?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

It builds up at about the same rate as a hive with a bottom entrance. They haul a lot of it out. There is more in the spring after a long winter than the rest of the year. I dump them off when I'm down that far. I don't dig down that far, just to dump the bottom board off.


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## RAlex (Aug 18, 2001)

Micheal B ...I have went to your site and it appears that your long hives are setting pretty close to the ground. I am a bit concerned that with the snow we get in central the my long hives would be buried in the snow.My Langs hives are sitting on stands about 16" off the ground/not only for clearance but also for the skunks. I have a kbth built and used popcicle sticks to center the comb but have decided th use your beveled bars in my others.I did put a bottom entrance on my hive so that I can feed the package I put in the hive at the same time the entrance will be at the top.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I am a bit concerned that with the snow we get in central the my long hives would be buried in the snow.

That's possible. My problems are usually hives blowing over, so I put mine as close to the ground as I can get, which is on treated four by four rails. But mine have top entrances, so the and with the four by four railes the entrances is still a foot above the ground. So If the snow is over a foot I go shovel out the entrance, but we don't get that much snow very often.

>My Langs hives are sitting on stands about 16" off the ground/not only for clearance but also for the skunks.

Well, with a top entrance you won't have to worry about the skunks or the snow with a vertical hive. With a horizontal hive, you can put it as high as you think needed to clear the snow.

>I have a kbth built and used popcicle sticks to center the comb but have decided th use your beveled bars in my others.

The popscicle sticks will work. I do like the beveled guides.

>I did put a bottom entrance on my hive so that I can feed the package I put in the hive at the same time the entrance will be at the top.

I'm not sure I understand. What does a bottom entrance have to do with feeding?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

BTW here's some pictures:

http://www.bushfarms.com/images/LongHiveFront.JPG
http://www.bushfarms.com/images/MigratoryTopEntrance2.JPG
http://www.bushfarms.com/images/MigratoryTopEntrance1.JPG
http://www.bushfarms.com/images/EightTenEightHives.jpg

The last picture the hive on the left has a wider groove in an inner cover and a box on top of that. The next has a notch in the inner cover and the telecopic slid forward. The third actually still had a bottom entrance when this picture was taken, covered in 1/4" hardware cloth.

http://www.bushfarms.com/images/TypicalHiveMyHive.JPG

On the left is a "typical" hive as recommended in the books. From bottom to top it is: a bottom board, two deep boxes for the brood, a queen excluder, two shallow supers an inner cover and a telescopic cover. This is NOT what I typically run.

The one on the right is one of my typical vertical hives before I cut them down to eight frames. It's a slatted rack with some #8 hardware cloth for a bottom, four medium boxes for brood and honey (no excluder) and a migratory top with a shim on both sides to make a top entrance.


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