# mite count after oav



## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

rookie2531 said:


> OK, after about 16 hours, I counted the drop and on the whole board was roughly 50 mites. That seemed to be the census for all 3 hives. One was a lot less, but to be conservative, 50.
> 
> For a successful treatment, does 50 mean that the infestation is low. I know it depends if they are brood less, but it is chilly here and they are starting to cluster, so I don't want to disturb there winter setup by tearing down there propulus filled cracks and chilling them and even more devastating, killing the queen!


Hi,
I get my greatest drop when using OAV in 48 hrs.....

I'm confused, why would disturb their winter setup as you say? Vaporization just involves putting the vaporizer in the hive, sealing then vaporizing. There is no tearing down the hive .... There is almost no chance of killing the queen (never heard of one instance) if you follow the directions ...


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## rookie2531 (Jul 28, 2014)

snl said:


> Hi,
> I get my greatest drop when using OAV in 48 hrs.....
> 
> I'm confused, why would disturb their winter setup as you say? Vaporization just involves putting the vaporizer in the hive, sealing then vaporizing. There is no tearing down the hive .... There is almost no chance of killing the queen (never heard of one instance) if you follow the directions ...


I was referring to not knowing for sure if they are brood less. I don't want to dig in to them to see.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

rookie2531 said:


> I was referring to not knowing for sure if they are brood less. I don't want to dig in to them to see.


There is no need to dig into them to find out if they are broodless.....Your final OAV right after Thanksgiving should be sufficient to kill over 95% of the remaining mites. That time of year, in your area, you should be just about broodless or close enough. Just pick a day around that time where the temps are around 37 or higher and do your final vaporization.......


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## rookie2531 (Jul 28, 2014)

OK, thanks for the info. I will count the ipm boards again tomorrow as I didn't clean it off today.


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

Rookie..i finished going thru my hives tuesdsy. Some were already broodless while most still had some capped brood. Only the ones i started in sept were still laying. This is the earliest ivecseen them shut down. I suspect after this cold they will all shut down
What kind of vaporizer did you use?


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## rookie2531 (Jul 28, 2014)

suttonbeeman said:


> Rookie..i finished going thru my hives tuesdsy. Some were already broodless while most still had some capped brood. Only the ones i started in sept were still laying. This is the earliest ivecseen them shut down. I suspect after this cold they will all shut down
> What kind of vaporizer did you use?


http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?304935-homemade-oav


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## rookie2531 (Jul 28, 2014)

OK SNL, mite count doubled to total 100. Is this a big drop?


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

rookie2531 said:


> OK SNL, mite count doubled to total 100. Is this a big drop?


It could be ...... for you & your hives. Evidently, your mite count was not high as others. I've seen 1,000's of mites after a highly infested hive was treated. 

Don't forget to treat again (once) right around Thanksgiving when the hive is basically broodless. Pick a day above 40 degrees and go for it. Then your hive is set for winter (provided it has adequate stores)........


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## rookie2531 (Jul 28, 2014)

OK, thanks.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

I consider no indications of effects on the bees due to mites a successful treatment. I suppose if you would rather have some certain number of mites fall I can send you some more.

What other things have you seen that would indicate you have a high mite infestation?

I see ways to think about treatment. You can treat becasue you have a problem. or you can treat so you don't. I personally would never want to see a high mite count from my hives. treated or not. A low drop after the most recent treatment only means the last treatment worked well, and continued to. If the treatments I am using work. there won't be mites to kill. Right. At least that is my idea of a good treatment method.

The idea is to keep mites out of your hives. so a low count means you are doing something right. If you can keep doing the right stuff without the use of OA. good for you.


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## gezellig (Jun 11, 2014)

SNL, does the temp need to be above 40 for the treatment procedure only, or consistently above 40 for the day?


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## rookie2531 (Jul 28, 2014)

Daniel Y said:


> I consider no ininfestation. f effects on the bees due to mites a successful treatment. I suppose if you would rather have some certain number of mites fall I can send you some more.
> 
> What other things have you seen that would indicate you have a high mite infestation?
> 
> ...


I don't know if all this is directed towards me, but if it is then, what is a low mite count? You think I think that I would be pleased with more mites on my board, but what my question was, that I don't know if 100 count is a high drop or not. Of course I would love to never see another mite ever. So what is exactly your point?
As far as what I see to indicate a high infestation. Well, I would have to know what a high infestation was first.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

gezellig said:


> SNL, does the temp need to be above 40 for the treatment procedure only, or consistently above 40 for the day?


During the treatment and hopefully for an hour or so afterwards.......


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

rookie2531 said:


> I don't know if all this is directed towards me, but if it is then, what is a low mite count? You think I think that I would be pleased with more mites on my board, but what my question was, that I don't know if 100 count is a high drop or not. Of course I would love to never see another mite ever. So what is exactly your point?
> As far as what I see to indicate a high infestation. Well, I would have to know what a high infestation was first.


Drop counts vary as to the infestation level they indicate depending on the condition of the hive.

A high count during a no brood treatment can mean a low infestation rate. a low count while there is brood can mean a high one. The actual numbers given vary depending on who you are talking to.

Drops or even mite counts themselves very in the same manner and according to which way you gathered the sample.

100 mites in 48 hours seems to me to be pretty high. For some reason 20 or so in 24 hours is a treatment threshold. at least in my general since of the issue.

I actually don't use drop counts as a management tool. Which leads to the other symptoms.

1. actual visual sightign of mites. in this case one mite is considered a serious infestation.

2. lethargic bees and non productivity.

3. dwindling population.

4. K wing or indication of other diseases vectored by the mites. 

5. A symptom I at first attributed to Tracheal mites but may have actually been a symptom of Varroa. It is bees crawling across the ground in front of the hive as if they cannot stand upright or are being attacked by something.

The main thing I monitor is basic productivity and vigor of any colony.

At the same time I am developing a since of simply when to treat so that I never see symptoms. this year I was successful at that.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

rookie2531 said:


> Of course I would love to never see another mite ever. So what is exactly your point?


My point, and not necessarily at you. But rather you are the person I am conversing with. is that without a certain mite count. many tend to see no need to treat. Had you had a 0 count you would have considered the treatment a failure or a waste of time and money. And yet a 0 count would be exactly what you woudl hope to achieve. It is a catch 22 situation. One that is very real and one that I cannot be convinced you or many others do not think.

On the other hand where I to do a drop count on my hives. 0 count would be exactly what I would expect to find. It would be evidence that what I am doing is working.

1. I assume there is no possible 0 infestation without treatments. Not ever in any hive. untreated hives have mites. period.

2. nearly all treated hives still have mites since there is no 100% effective treatment.

3. I consider no symptoms. no visual sighting of mites and no appearance of mites on drone brood tests to be 0 mites.


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## rookie2531 (Jul 28, 2014)

Daniel Y said:


> My point, and not necessarily at you. But rather you are the person I am conversing with. is that without a certain mite count. many tend to see no need to treat. Had you had a 0 count you would have considered the treatment a failure or a waste of time and money. And yet a 0 count would be exactly what you woudl hope to achieve. It is a catch 22 situation. One that is very real and one that I cannot be convinced you or many others do not think.
> 
> On the other hand where I to do a drop count on my hives. 0 count would be exactly what I would expect to find. It would be evidence that what I am doing is working.
> 
> ...


I get it now, I think. But I am a realist, if I perform the treatment and fumes are sneaking out tiny cracks and the bees are p'd off when I remove the tool, then I already assume that it was successful. Not the number of mites on the ipm board. The number on the board for me would help indicate the severity of infestation. It is nice to learn that the numbers will be significantly different if brood less or not. I did not realize that a majority was always in brood.

I am very new to treating and read a lot that new package installs need not worry about it their first year, but I started this year with a package, no comb and even made a split that raised their own queen and have these numbers. At first I did not know if they were brood less or not, but now I know they had brood. I know because after this cold snap, I witnessed them dragging pupae out. Which I did not see any mites on them. But now I know and I guess 100 is a high infestation rate.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

Mite counts are something you could do an entire study of. A couple of years ago I began to. pretty much forgot most of what I studied. in the process my first hive declined right under my nose due to mites.

Now I am also a realist. In fact I am pretty much an extreme realist. in that I follow a concept that says without fail and without question the physical universe does not lie.

This means that if in fact my attempts at controlling mites cannot keep them controlled even long enough to learn the method. then it is not the method that will work. Cut and dried. mites where not controlled by attempting to use that method.

Now many may argue that I should give it more of a chance. Nearly 20 years of managing my choices by this criteria has demonstrated to me that such a chance woudl only result in wasted time and failure. I personally do not need a second or third indication the method fails. I take the first one as indisputable proof and move on.

It is also this thinking that leads to my claim that controlled mites do not exist. If they are in fact controlled they are gone. The physical universe does not lie. if you have mites in your hive you in fact are not controlling them. unless of course you want them there.


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## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

rookie2531 said:


> I don't know if all this is directed towards me, but if it is then, what is a low mite count? You think I think that I would be pleased with more mites on my board, but what my question was, that I don't know if 100 count is a high drop or not. Of course I would love to never see another mite ever. So what is exactly your point?
> As far as what I see to indicate a high infestation. Well, I would have to know what a high infestation was first.


I am not sure about the definition of "high count". Michael Bush said that a count of about 32 was low enough not to treat in a strong hive. I had 49 in one hive and 63 in another. When I did my 1st OAV treatment, my count after 4 days was 63 on a 1/2 board so I quit counting and assumed (hoped) that was the mites still being killed.


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