# Are you ready for the Odfrank overwintering challenge?



## odfrank

I'm glad you are starting this 10/1 because I already lost a few in August that I now won't have to count. The crawlers are out in full force so the fun begins. That is probably a good starting date because I caught a swarm in September last year.


----------



## odfrank

Is there going to be a non-treatment and treatment category to make this more fair? Remember, I have been going bareback for years now.


----------



## Charlie B

odfrank said:


> Is there going to be a non-treatment and treatment category to make this more fair? Remember, I have been going bareback for years now.


I don't know what you mean by "bareback" and please don't tell us. Let's not get into treatment vs. non-treatment. Let each beekeeper stand on their own personal beekeeping beliefs and philosophy.


----------



## bhfury

Mine and Watsee's vote is non-treat.


----------



## odfrank

We don't have to debate treatment VS non-treatment, just declare what category we are in. That information might swing me back into treating or indicate that treating is not working for some. I quit using apistan because my bees still died. If I hear the people using some of the more recently available treatments are getting great over wintering success, I might want to start trying them. I am not a competitive person, I just want to learn what can improve my overwintering success and what exactly is killing my bees.


----------



## johnth78

Ok I'll jump in. 
8 hives Treatment free


----------



## jip

Charlie, update the subject with the starting date.


----------



## CaBees

Who won the swarm challenge?
Hopefully my 4 will still be in existence in Oct. No treatments from me.


----------



## Charlie B

odfrank said:


> We don't have to debate treatment VS non-treatment, just declare what category we are in. That information might swing me back into treating or indicate that treating is not working for some. I quit using apistan because my bees still died. If I hear the people using some of the more recently available treatments are getting great over wintering success, I might want to start trying them. I am not a competitive person, I just want to learn what can improve my overwintering success and what exactly is killing my bees.


Alright fine, since the challenge is in your name. Everyone check in with your number of hives and your treatment category. No debate on what the definition of treatment free is. Just state if you treat or not according to your own personal definition that you keep to yourself.


----------



## Charlie B

CaBees said:


> Who won the swarm challenge?
> Hopefully my 4 will still be in existence in Oct. No treatments from me.


Jolly Ollie won fair and square. http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?265490-Swarm-challenge&p=844234#post844234


----------



## rwurster

All my swarms have been combined or are in double deeps now except for 3 which I'm going to winter in single deeps. So 3 is my number, let's do this.

Mite load is extreme this year and these 3 hive will go into winter through spring 'treatment free'. C'mon fall flow...


----------



## Graperunner

i'm in with 12, treatment free

paul


----------



## KQ6AR

I might have a chance to beat OD on this one, last two winters 0% loss.
Powdered sugar is my only treatment. Going to be taking 4 hives, & 3 nucs into winter = 7


----------



## WWW

I am in with 3 swarms caught this year, I don't mind mentioning that I treat with OA vapor and just finished my 3 week fall treatment and the crawlers have disappeared.


----------



## fieldsofnaturalhoney

Count me in!! Rolling in with 15 & hopefully rolling into the spring with 15. One (cutout) will be sitting on my first attempted use of a double screened bottom board to share the warmth. Are grease patties considered a treatment?, I would think not, but I will be putting those on in a few weeks.


----------



## Mbeck

I can split in October and maybe again in February how do I count that?
I guess that my "Winter" is only 6-8 weeks. What is winter defined as? Any week you can't wear shorts for 3 or more days?

Should we be discussing treatment free in this section of the forum?


----------



## JRG13

Am I allowed to root for Frank on this???


----------



## Hawkster

25 hives - treated with MAQS just last week !


----------



## Charlie B

Mbeck said:


> I can split in October and maybe again in February how do I count that?
> I guess that my "Winter" is only 6-8 weeks. What is winter defined as? Any week you can't wear shorts for 3 or more days?
> 
> Should we be discussing treatment free in this section of the forum?


The winter time frame for the purposes of this challenge is October 1, 2012 to March 1, 2013.

This is an overwintering thread, not a treatment thread. You can say you're treatment free but we shouldn't have discussions about it other than that. Please don't ask if any part of what you do in beekeeping is treatment free. There are other forums for that.

Thanks!


----------



## Charlie B

Can you root for Olly? Absolutely!


----------



## JRG13

I just find your interactions hilarious, which I'm sure is why you pursue them.


----------



## minz

Just to be difficult, 4 hives, 2 nucs and trying to get 2 nucs QR for the winter (emerge Sept 1). So I could be 4, 6 or 8! how do you count? Treatment? not this season, yet, low counts.
Seriously 4 to count.


----------



## BeeGhost

Im in!

Just combined a nuc with a weaker hive so in my country yard I have 6 hives, two singles and 4 doubles. In town I have 2 doubles. I was going to make some nucs up but have decided not to. 

So I have a total of 8 hives going into fall/winter and I am taking them in treatment free.

And I am also very happy right now that I get to stop feeding for a while as well as the tar weed is in full bloom and everywhere this year!! They have stopped sucking down the sugar syrup which is also a clear indication of a flow.


----------



## nortpete

I will be going into winter with 14 hives all were wintered over or splits from my hives. I am completely treatment free.


----------



## Charlie B

minz said:


> Just to be difficult, 4 hives, 2 nucs and trying to get 2 nucs QR for the winter (emerge Sept 1). So I could be 4, 6 or 8! how do you count? Treatment? not this season, yet, low counts. Seriously 4 to count.


Please get all your combines and splits done by October 1st. Olly has no mercy. A nuc is technically a colony to him so they will count as a hive.


----------



## WWW

Charlie B, somehow I was thinking that you were only counting swarms:lookout :, so I will need to add 3 more hives, my total number of hives going into winter will be 6. :thumbsup:


----------



## Charlie B

WWW said:


> Charlie B, somehow I was thinking that you were only counting swarms:lookout :, so I will need to add 3 more hives, my total number of hives going into winter will be 6. :thumbsup:


I have no doubt that all yours will make it Bill!


----------



## WWW

Charlie, I hope to live up to your confidence in me, your a peach.


----------



## odfrank

JRG13 said:


> Am I allowed to root for Frank on this???


If you are a fool, sure...

I am the first to admit my losses and brag about my baithive catches....Losses:
2011-2012 - 80%
2010-2011 - 50%
2009-2010 - 80%

Lost 10 out of ten at one site in 2010-2011 all on small cell.


----------



## RiodeLobo

I am in.
8 hives. No treatments in any of them ever, 1-3 years old hives.
PS we get a real winter here (OK not a North Dakota real winter but colder than most)


----------



## psnolte

4 hives, 2 nucs going in. Here come our 9 months of rain...


----------



## odfrank

Why is everybody getting in a month early? Charlies rules are the rules.
"The winter time frame for the purposes of this challenge is October 1, 2012 to March 1, 2013."
I will count my hives at the end of September and not include the dozen that die before then.
Where can I order 50 queens for mid September delivery?


----------



## debtfreedave

I'm in but I'll wait until October 1 to post my hive count.


----------



## BeeCurious

With an average minimum temperature of 42.90 degrees Fahrenheit, is it really that much of a challenge to overwinter bees in San Mateo, California?


----------



## Roland

Hey, how about some sort of handicap system, based on the average number of days below a set temperature, like 32 deg F.? No way am I going to be able to compete with someone from Florida or Cali. when my bees are in Wisconsin.

Crazy Roland


----------



## odfrank

>No way am I going to be able to compete with someone from Florida or Cali. when my bees are in Wisconsin.
>is it really that much of a challenge to overwinter bees in San Mateo, California?

Cold has little or nothing to do with my winter losses, although a brood break during a real winter might help. My bees have been collapsing due to some mystery "CCD" type problem. They can fly and collect pollen almost 365 days a year. But they probably have mites and DVW all year long, lots of queens that disappear/fail prematurely, as winter progresses many lose population, and die en mass in the few cold rainy days we have. Next to them are strong hives that winter just fine. Going into winter with a brand new queen seems to often guarantee survival. I have kept bees over 42 years and this problem began in 2006.


----------



## btmurph

Roland said:


> Hey, how about some sort of handicap system, based on the average number of days below a set temperature, like 32 deg F.? No way am I going to be able to compete with someone from Florida or Cali. when my bees are in Wisconsin.
> 
> Crazy Roland


Sounds like excuses to me 

I'm in, but I'm waiting on Oct. 1st for the colony count


----------



## KQ6AR

To be more fare with the guys/gals in colder climates we could count a nuc that survives as a hive/ a nuc that dies as 1/2 a hive. That is if they feel they need a handicap.




Charlie B said:


> Please get all your combines and splits done by October 1st. Olly has no mercy. A nuc is technically a colony to him so they will count as a hive.


----------



## Lauri

The bad thing about bee keeping, is when you make mistakes that cost you hives...
Like:
- moving hives a short distance in late fall and loosing a LOT of foragers, weakening the hive and ultimately loosing it 
-Having queens from warmer climates of unknown genetics and unknown age head the hives going into the winter.
-not monitoring for mites regularly, especially in fall.
-not realizing there is a darth in late summer and allowing the queens to shut down, just when you need those upcoming young bees to overwinter.
(I could go on, but I bet you get it by now)


The good thing about bee keeping is that once you get over the loss and your stupid mistakes, you look forward to the next season so you can apply what you've learned. So sure you've got it this time!

So yes, I am in for OdFranks challenge. Mites have been almost non excitant all summer-(we'll see if they stay that way once all the capped brood is open) Hives are well fed and heavy-or will be by October-Yellow jackets have been outsmarted, etc. Almost every queen is home raised from superior stock and locally mated in mid summer.

I will have about 85 hives and nucs after combining a few more smaller mating nucs. As a second year beekeeper, that is already a challenge! We'll wait for the final count when I get back from Montana after I show the boys how to bring home dinner with a little stick

Not sure how I am going to winterize the box's yet other than clustering them together somewhat on the benches. I'll update if I get any bright ideas.
I have a long inactive period and wet rainy winters here..They won't become activly laying again until mid- April. 

Western Washington State, near the Canadian border.

The young queens are laying like crazy..I am already in much better shape this year. In fact some hives have two queens...Hee hee, is that cheating?

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Miller-Compound-HoneyBees-and-Agriculture/256954971040510


----------



## KQ6AR

I'm afraid of Lauri already, she's already got her winter meat supply in the freezer. Who's prepared?


----------



## Lauri

Until it is time to give a hive count in October, perhaps some could give their overwintering methods a post. Name the climate and state you are in please.


----------



## Captainfester

3 hives. 2 I'm 2 deeps and 1 in 3 meds. All new hives this year. No treatments.


----------



## KQ6AR

No winter prep other than making sure mite loads aren't crazy high.
It snows about once per winter but rarely sticks, there is nectar available at least 11 months per year, Most weeks have at least a couple days warm enough for the bees to fly.
USDA zone 9b


----------



## Charlie B

Ok, I'm done with combines and the like. I have 34 hives all treatment free other than powdered sugar.

It has begun!


----------



## Charlie B

BTW,

I'm already setting up swarm traps near the Frank compound for this coming spring.


----------



## cg3

I'm in with 17. 11 treated with Hopguard, 6 untreated.


----------



## cg3

I'm in zone 6b, occasionally gets down around 0 F. Snows some, wet.
Mouseguards, SBB open about 1", feeding the light ones to fill 3 meds.


----------



## WWW

Charlie, perhaps you can snag a few swarms off the Frank compound to thin his herd a little so the rest of us will have a chance in this contest . 

If it has begun then I am still in with 6 hives, very heavy with winter stores and sassy to boot :thumbsup:


----------



## cg3

I'm looking for a yard in Belpre, OH.


----------



## BeeGhost

Lauri, just have to say that is a nice bull! And with archery gear to boot!


----------



## Gord

6 Langs, 2 TBH's
FGMO and EO's only.
Quilts on top of langs, wrap all with reflextix on north and east sides.


----------



## Charlie B

This is the last day before we start. If you want to change your hive count, let us know by the end of today. Good wintering everyone!


----------



## KQ6AR

I have one nuc having a hard time getting queen right, one hive superseding, & another I'll probably have to feed. 
Guess I'll stick with 7, & see what happens.


----------



## debtfreedave

Couldn't get to the computer yesterday. I'm starting with 3 hives. No treatment.


----------



## G Barnett

4 hives treatment free.


----------



## oblib

I'm in with 23 hives.


----------



## BayHighlandBees

3 hives (one has a virgin queen, my strongest has mites). 

Sounds like I'll be evenly matched with Ollie


----------



## Charlie B

BayHighlandBees said:


> 3 hives (one has a virgin queen, my strongest has mites). Sounds like I'll be evenly matched with Ollie


Are you sure you didn't get those hives from Olly?


----------



## btmurph

I'm out... my 1 colony ( :shhhh: ) succumbed to yellow jackets 

watching and waiting to see who wins tho opcorn:


----------



## BayHighlandBees

I didn't get them from olly, but I'm sure his drones like to hang out with my girls. I'll have to teach them to stay away from the seedy drones that live up on the hill!


----------



## BayHighlandBees

Murph, 
how long did it take for your hive to succumb to the Yellow Jackets?

-Andrew


----------



## seyc

I need to look inside my hives to see what I have. As of last week, I had three hives, two single deep and single medium, and one, one deep and two mediums. Then, there is the other one. It has a virgin queen (hatched out a week before) with a deep and a medium, then a queen excluder and a single medium with a virgin queen (hatched a week before). So, if I see brood (or not), I will back date it to whatever the status was yesterday. (The queens hatched out Wednesday or Thursday, two weeks ago.)


----------



## RayMarler

So, the challenge is to lose a higher percentage than Olly right? ... opcorn:

I've got 13 nucs, no treatments. 2 queens from spring and 11 from after mid july. Only 1 or 2 looking impressive at all.


----------



## BayHighlandBees

all of mine are reduced to single deeps at this point


----------



## Charlie B

RayMarler said:


> So, the challenge is to lose a higher percentage than Olly right? ... opcorn:


I'm not sure anyone can do that!


----------



## Charlie B

BayHighlandBees said:


> I didn't get them from olly, but I'm sure his drones like to hang out with my girls. I'll have to teach them to stay away from the seedy drones that live up on the hill!


That's definitely the "low rent" district judging by his boxes.


----------



## odfrank

BayHighlandBees said:


> all of mine are reduced to single deeps at this point


I would leave an empty super of drawn combs on very strong hives, if all those eucalyptus trees around CSM start blooming you might make a winter crop.


----------



## BayHighlandBees

when do those Eucalyptus come into play, November?


----------



## odfrank

BayHighlandBees said:


> when do those Eucalyptus come into play, November?


Yes, watch the trees first for silver buds and then white blossoms. Watch the streets underneath for the silver flower caps. The has been a white flowering smaller euc in bloom for a month down highway 92 at El Camino and the red ficifolias have been blooming also along side 92 next to the golf course. Your bees can reach those.


----------



## odfrank

If I post my numbers now it will be harder to lie in Spring.


----------



## bevy's honeybees

17 hives, no treatment.
Southwest Florida. Location helps, sure, but every season my hives make it through is great. We have year round problems like shb, mites, bull ants. Balances out, yes?

So, odfrank, you in?


----------



## odfrank

bevy's honeybees said:


> So, odfrank, you in?


I have for years shown off and bragged about my beekeeping expertise on BeeSource, all along admitting my failures with small cell and winter losses. This thread is just Charlie's way of putting me down and embarrassing me. I hate to give him the pleasure of seeing me go down. And now he is even harassing me privately to take him and his wife out for dinner. HAH!


----------



## Charlie B

odfrank said:


> This thread is just Charlie's way of putting me down and embarrassing me. I hate to give him the pleasure of seeing me go down. And now he is even harassing me privately to take him and his wife out for dinner. HAH!


You know I love you man!


----------



## seyc

Okay, mark me down as having four hives.


----------



## Charlie B

odfrank said:


> If I post my numbers now it will be harder to lie in Spring.


Looks like BHB and I are going to have to conduct a covert operation to count Olly's hives. Anyone else want to come?


----------



## BeeGhost

Although I still have 8 hives, I put one of the single deeps into a 10 frame double decker nuc for the winter. Other than that, things looked great when I got to check them Yesterday!! Tons of pollen coming in and they are storing away the nectar. They should have enough stores to make it to eucalyptus bloom around January and there are TONS of those trees in the area.

So again, final count is still 8 hives..............7 double deeps and 1 double deep nuc!! Im not even going to treat them with powdered sugar, just going to let them fight or fail with the mites, which I dont think is huge problem as the country hives had a really good broodbreak over the summer with a bad dearth, but came on strong with some feeding.

My only fear is the creek coming up really high, if that happens I'll be hauling hives to higher ground!! But it will take a very exceptionally wet year to do that!!


----------



## Charlie B

odfrank said:


> Yes, watch the trees first for silver buds and then white blossoms. Watch the streets underneath for the silver flower caps. The has been a white flowering smaller euc in bloom for a month down highway 92 at El Camino and the red ficifolias have been blooming also along side 92 next to the golf course. Your bees can reach those.


Olly's right, last fall the Euc started to flow and I wound up taking off 300 pounds from 4 hives that was collected from November to February. Very sweet tasting honey but it crystallizes fast.


----------



## Daniel Y

I have 4 hives, 2 are 5 frame nucs but I have every intention of keeping them through the winter as the others. I am in the treatment category.


----------



## Charlie B

odfrank said:


> The has been a white flowering smaller euc in bloom for a month down highway 92 at El Camino and the red ficifolias have been blooming also along side 92 next to the golf course. Your bees can reach those.


That's really close to my new San Mateo bee-yard. Your bees can obviously reach my yard because I caught one of your swarms last week.


----------



## btmurph

BayHighlandBees said:


> Murph,
> how long did it take for your hive to succumb to the Yellow Jackets?
> 
> -Andrew


sorry, I've been busy with things... it took about 2 months, but the colony wasn't strong to begin with (relatively fresh swarm cut out of a water meter box). Even then, they probably would have made it except they swarmed a month after I installed them so there was a brood break as well


----------



## Eyeshooter

I know it's late to join in but I just got out to my 2nd yard to take off some empty feeders and wish the ladies a pleasant winter. I have 18 colonies, 11 hives and 7 nucs. All no treat...Only thing left to do is wrap.

John


----------



## Lauri

Put me down for 80 colonies, mostly double nucs. Somewhat reluctantly treatment free, after 5 booming hives totally Absconded after inserting HopGuard strips
But the remaining colonies are strong , healthy and heavy-very content and settled in for fall.
No yellow jacket assault problems like last year. 
I will check mite loads again soon and only treat if necessary.
I wish everyone good luck and a mild pleasant winter!

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Miller-Compound-HoneyBees-and-Agriculture/256954971040510


----------



## KQ6AR

Hi Brian,
Not trying to be rude, but 2 months of abuse by yellow jackets is neglect on you're part. You knew the hive was weak. I'd like to suggest you look into making a couple robbing screens to use in the future when problems arise. I believe you could have easily saved that hive.
Sorry if I came of a little hostile, just want to give you alternatives for you're future management.




btmurph said:


> sorry, I've been busy with things... it took about 2 months, but the colony wasn't strong to begin with (relatively fresh swarm cut out of a water meter box). Even then, they probably would have made it except they swarmed a month after I installed them so there was a brood break as well


----------



## btmurph

Dan, the hive HAD robbing screening... and the entrance was reduced to about 2 bee-widths wide but the yj's overcame what little defense there was, and then finally there was no defense...


----------



## odfrank

Put me down for 83 going in. Two are dweebs, but to be fair I am counting them. This afternoons project has been claimed by my helper.


----------



## Charlie B

Ok Olly, 83 it is. Where is that open hive?


----------



## KQ6AR

Looks prity well sheltered from rain, leave it there until spring. In the spirit of the challenge.


----------



## Charlie B

Dan's right. Just leave it until spring unless you have a presentable hive to house them in.


----------



## BeeGhost

That is some thick comb up top, wow!


----------



## Charlie B

In danger of losing 2 second year hives to mites already. Trying to save them. Not good.


----------



## RayMarler

1 die-out last week, seems to be queen failure without the bees raising a replacement. Started this with 13 so down to 12 now.


----------



## d-amick

I'm in with 2 hives. One has mucho crawlers the other is being treated for EFB. Care to bet on those odds?


----------



## d-amick

Charlie B said:


> Looks like BHB and I are going to have to conduct a covert operation to count Olly's hives. Anyone else want to come?


No worries, Charlie, I already know his full count!


----------



## odfrank

I made full disclosure in post #86. I plan to win this competition with as big a margin as I won the bait swarm contest. I see two 12 frame jumbos dead so Scut will have to help stack them on the survivors.


----------



## Charlie B

odfrank said:


> I plan to win this competition


You are aware that the beekeeper who has the highest survival percentage wins right?


----------



## odfrank

>We'll go by number of hives lost beginning October 1, 2012 thru March 1, 2013.

This is what you say in post #1. Clearly the man able to slaughter the most hives wins and that will be me. How else would I develop enough old black comb to win the 2013 Bait Hive Challenge?


----------



## oblib

odfrank said:


> >We'll go by number of hives lost beginning October 1, 2012 thru March 1, 2013.
> 
> This is what you say in post #1. Clearly the man able to slaughter the most hives wins and that will be me. How else would I develop enough old black comb to win the 2013 Bait Hive Challenge?


:lpf:


----------



## Charlie B

odfrank said:


> How else would I develop enough old black comb to win the 2013 Bait Hive Challenge?


BTW, it's ON in the spring. I'm determined to beat you in the 2013 swarm challenge. I'm dedicating this entire winter to building swarm traps. With Fuzzy's donation, I've got enough comb to compete!


----------



## KQ6AR

I'm still at 7 with 2 of them being weak. One is very light, & wouldn't take feed. If I pull through this winter with 100% survival like I did the last two I'll be very surprised.


----------



## MeriB

Is it too late to come in? I have 4 hives since Oct 1.


----------



## Charlie B

You're the last late entry Meridith, good luck!


----------



## odfrank

Charlie B said:


> You're the last late entry Meridith, good luck!


As all beekeepers are 100% honest I feel that we should allow entries until 12/31/12 as long as they base their starting count on 10/1/12.


----------



## Charlie B

Lost those two hives I mentioned earlier. Ouch!


----------



## rweakley

I am treatment free most years (for varroa,shb, or bee squirts (sorry couldn't remember name)) I have treated in the past with oxalic acid vaporization, Fall of 2011 I did, This fall I'm not.

Going into winter with 3 Single story deep hives, 2 double deep hives, 3 nucs, 2 double mediums, and 1 triple medium. 2 of the Nucs had been in fullsize hives, but didn't have time (or resources, dang drought) to build up to that strengh so I moved them back to nucs. Of course I'm 100% honest, but that has more to do with being a Boy Scout(40 years old and still try to live that way) than a Beekeeper LOL A scout is trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful...
Rod


----------



## Colleen O.

Glad it isn't too late to join! As of October 1st I had (still have) two hives. One NWC and one Buckfast. They are top bar and both small enough that they could be considered nucs. They are both pretty good on honey/sugar stores, maybe a little low on pollen in one, and I tried to manage pests but stay chemical free. The one that was low on pollen has a smaller cluster but is doing okay so far.


----------



## GLOCK

odfrank said:


> As all beekeepers are 100% honest I feel that we should allow entries until 12/31/12 as long as they base their starting count on 10/1/12.


If i can get in i have 13 hives and 2 nucs since OCT. 1 All chemical free i would never lie only to cops and judges.


----------



## RayMarler

Lost a second one this week, so am down to 11 from 13 so far.


----------



## MeriB

So far I still have all four but work and Family medical emergiencies have kept me from getting my winter covers with candy on the hives. Should hit 50 tomorrow with no wind so I am going for it and will hope for no ill effects!


----------



## Adrian Quiney WI

OK, thanks to Ollie's generous offer to honest latecomers I'm in. 18 nucs (2 storys of 5 frames) and 12 hives (ranging in size from a single to a stack of four boxes). A dusting of snow is on the ground.


----------



## lazy shooter

On 10/1/12 I had three splits and three mature hives. I still have them. My last inspection was a week ago, and since I am on my way to knee replacement surgery early in the morning, I don't think my bees will be bothered by me for a month or so. All of my hives had good honey stores, and I am not, nor do I intend to, feed them this winter. I may try a spring boost feeding, but then again, I may not.


----------



## Hokie Bee Daddy

I just found this thread so I'm another latecomer. As of 10/1 I had 6 hives and as of today still do. I am a "treater" and treated for mites three times by three different methods in 2012. Good luck to all.

I will report back on 3/31/2013. This is a good idea and will give a lot of good information. We all need to know if our treatment cost are paid back in saved hives.


----------



## odfrank

Maybe we should make these latecomers post in:

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?214207-Face-to-the-Name-R-U-up-to-it

so we can judge if they have an honest face or not.


----------



## Adrian Quiney WI

Od, I'm at post #110. Here I am again. Honest as the day is long.
http://s1110.beta.photobucket.com/u...eesource/2012-03-11100003.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1


----------



## GLOCK

GLOCK said:


> If i can get in i have 13 hives and 2 nucs since OCT. 1 All chemical free i would never lie only to cops and judges.


----------



## odfrank

You both look suspicious to me, especially that doberman, what do you think Charlie, can we trust them?


----------



## Colleen O.

odfrank said:


> Maybe we should make these latecomers post in:
> 
> http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?214207-Face-to-the-Name-R-U-up-to-it
> 
> so we can judge if they have an honest face or not.


 I added mine to the Face-to-Name thread. Hopefully I pass muster!


----------



## Bear Creek Steve

I would like to add my 7 hives as of 1 October into the challenge. No treatment, low mite drop count, mostly double deep + medium, wrapped, and top feed can fed. Had a 14% loss last winter and going for a zero % loss this winter.

Honesty is important as mentioned by rweakly (Post #105). My first Boy Scout merit badge was "Beekeeping" in ~1954.

OD; The five remaining beebee tree saplings (out of 25) that I bought from you two years ago have reached an astounding average height of 24 inches. Honestly!

Steve


----------



## Charlie B

They all look honest enough to me Ollie. I think you could probably learn a thing or two from Adrian on hive box appearance. You guys are in!!!


----------



## Charlie B

Here's me and my gorgeous bride with our first bee package several years ago. She then kicked me out of the kitchen after our first honey harvest. Something about her feet sticking to the floor. 
















I forgive you dear!


----------



## Goat Man

Can I get in here? OCT. 1 I had 1 ten frame double deep, 3 eight frame triple mediums and 2 eight frame double medium hives.
All still alive today. All started winter with 1 1/2 supers of honey stores. I plan to add a 12 pound sugar board to each in December for insurance.


----------



## odfrank

Charlie B said:


> Ollie. I think you could probably learn a thing or two from Adrian on hive box appearance.


How does that ugly pastel green look better than my nice olive green?
In your 42nd year of hive accumulation come show me that yours are all the same color.
Its not how you make it big but how big you make it.


----------



## Goat Man

I got some purdy hives too.


----------



## Charlie B

Nice hives Goat, you're in.


----------



## Charlie B

I don't know what looks worse, those boxes or your bee suit!


----------



## oblib

Lost one. Is mid-sixties today and sunny so I went out to watch the bees. One hive just did not look right. Way too much activity and no pollen going in. Decided to open it up and found it was being robbed out. Had been queenless and also looked to have gone laying worker before it died out. 

On the plus side I caught the robbing early enough that I was able to snatch 2 1/2 medium boxes of capped or just torn open honey off of it. Since it was warm I opened any hive/nuc that I was worried was low on food and gave them some frames of food. I still have a couple that are very weak,(made them up too late), but none that are low on stores now.


----------



## minz

I think I am down a nuc. I put my mating nucs out split in half and as I said in September it was a final ditch effort to get them QR. It hit 50 out here and the big yellow thing shone itself for a brief instant. All were flying but one nuc and the swarm that is under the eve. Not confirmed yet but I pulled out my keys and pulled a bunch of bees from the entry hole.


----------



## Adrian Quiney WI

In reference to OD's post #122. If I get to 42 years of beekeeping I'll be 87. If you are still around I'll repaint them all the same color for you. You can choose the color Mine are a mish-mash as well tan, brown, green, and I'm about to break into a can of pink. All you saw in picture was a run of boxes I had just painted.
http://s1110.beta.photobucket.com/user/AdrianQuineyWI/media/2012-11-30124340.jpg.html?sort=6&o=1


----------



## odfrank

That is a stunningly appropriate chain of colors. Charlie see, white is DUMB.
Nice handholds.
However, I don't approve of making nucs in the bedroom. Charlies' wife kicked him out of the bedroom for that.


----------



## squarepeg

hey! i happened to like white!


----------



## Charlie B

squarepeg said:


> hey! i happened to like white!


Ollie, listen to squarepeg and Harry, a little color coordination would give you a more professional look!


----------



## StevenG

Sorry I'm late chiming in, but if it isn't too late, October 1 I had 27 live colonies, treatment free. I came out of last winter with 30 hives, but it has been a difficult year for a lot of reasons.
Regards,
Steven


----------



## squarepeg

if we are talking overwintering losses only, last year i had 10 of 10 make it.

for this year, i have lost 3 during the year, but added 11 by splitting, catching swarms, and i bought 2 nucs.

i sold one, so that puts me 17 going into this winter. 

(no mite treatments were used, and very little syrup).

i think most of these 17 should make it through this winter, although i have one or two that are marginal.


----------



## MeriB

One hive didn't look right when I put the candy on it earlier. Today there were bees flying from all but that one. Supposed to be in the 60's tomorrow and I plan to check it out.


----------



## odfrank

StevenG said:


> I came out of last winter with 30 hives, but it has been a difficult year for a lot of reasons.Steven


Down 10% during the summer? That should disqualify you right from the start.


----------



## squarepeg

mine were summer losses too. scratch me off the list.


----------



## rweakley

odfrank said:


> Down 10% during the summer? That should disqualify you right from the start.


Hey be nice. I don't know what else StevenG was dealing with but we have had a horrible drought here in Misery. That alone could have caused him to lose some hives.

Rod


----------



## odfrank

It's not the summer losses that are a strike against you, I had those also. It is the fact that you did not dramatically expand your apiary that indicates you might not be trying had enough to out do the rest of us.


----------



## Zier64

ive got 10 right now! 3 being Nucs 7 full hives


----------



## Daniel Y

I think I may have lost my top bar. No surprise there that colony was, A new word to me, A dink. In person I use far more colorful phrases to describe it. I didn't find out until to late what I should have done with it. Which was pinch the queen and use the bees to boost my two nucs. I was holding out to see if it would do better in the spring.


----------



## Adrian Quiney WI

OD, I took your advice, and moved the nucs out of the marital bedroom.
http://s1110.beta.photobucket.com/user/AdrianQuineyWI/media/2012-12-02184842.jpg.html?sort=6&o=0


----------



## BeeGhost

Adrian, 

Those are cute, they will be sure to make the drones very happy! LOL


----------



## Colleen O.

Wow! That is Love!
I have done a composite repair on a Sunfish sailboat and rebuilt a Vespa carburetor in my livingroom before but admit it might not fly for the man in my life to do something similar. Wood dust and paint fumes in the bedroom would be a tough sell. The basement would be okay, I woodwork there all the time. I guess you do what you have to do. That is what I did with the Sunfish. Glad you have a great/understanding wife!


----------



## pascal

> As all beekeepers are 100% honest I feel that we should allow entries until 12/31/12 as long as they base their starting count on 10/1/12


well, I'm in if I'm allowed, at October first, 78 double, 18 single 8 nucs wrapped and treated with formic and oxalic.. and sure, well feed.


----------



## odfrank

Adrian Quiney WI said:


> OD, I took your advice, and moved the nucs out of the marital bedroom./QUOTE]
> 
> Thank Charlie not me. It is his marriage that is tottering on the brink because of that sticky kitchen floor and I don't want yours to follow suit. I have had a shop and extracting room miles from my bedroom for 35 years and my latest marriage has lasted 27 because of that. I do now have four hives on my upstairs deck and that is not questioned by the family as long as I don't inquire into where the honey sales cash disappears to. To my daughter: "Do you need any money for the movies?" "No, I sold four quarts this morning".....


----------



## squarepeg

i'll get back in if you can give me a grace period to 11/10/12. i shook one out that day, but i should have already done it a couple of weeks prior.


----------



## Charlie B

You're in square peg as long as you agree to harass Ollie whenever you can. Poor Mrs. Frank, why do bad things happen to good people?


----------



## squarepeg

hurray! thanks chuck!

does the winner get a box of scones?


----------



## odfrank

squarepeg said:


> i'll get back in if you can give me a grace period to 11/10/12. i shook one out that day, but i should have already done it a couple of weeks prior.


You and Charlie are too full of excuses. You can get back in but that shakeout of course has to be counted as a loss after 10/1. Both you and Charlie have to realize this is a competition, not nursery school.


----------



## odfrank

Charlie B said:


> Poor Mrs. Frank, why do bad things happen to good people?


Her life is sad and confused....she met Charlie late one dark, cold night outside his garage while he sold me some funky homemade inner covers and she still refers to him as "that nice guy in San Francisco".


----------



## squarepeg

dern!!!

can i get credit for winter 2010? 4 hives, zero losses.

or winter 2011? 10 hives, zero losses.

oh well, i'm still in for '12. 17 hives, one loss. (but i want those scones if i win  )


----------



## cg3

I've got a lot of cans of paint with 1" in them.


----------



## Goat Man

This may not be the place to ask this question. But most of the pics of hives posted have been in the shade. So what is the best location to place a hive, shade or full sun?? My hives are in a location that gets the first rays in the morning. But shaded from the hot sun after 2pm on.

Thanks all.


----------



## GLOCK

GLOCK said:


> If i can get in i have 13 hives and 2 nucs since OCT. 1 All chemical free i would never lie only to cops and judges.


Checked on my bee yard today was 60f today and going to be 65 plus tomorro all hives are heavy and buzzin. So far so good what a nice winter so far hope it's like it was last year.
Happy beeing everyone.
GOATMAN mine are in full sun all day pretty much and i have some pure black hives and i have no problems i think the bee's like the heat.


----------



## WWW

Nice hives cg3


----------



## franktrujillo

since october 1 my current hive # are as follows 2 observation hives 11 double deeps no treatments,didn't feed, no patties above,this year 3 swarms caught 1 cut out,3 walk away splits,3 going into 3rd winter,3 second winter. total of 13 hives.


----------



## KQ6AR

I have to agree with OD on this one, it wouldn't be fair to everyone else. I still have a nuc trying to raise a queen, & a light hive that where having problems before the contest started but I'm counting them. 
We also haven't lost a hive in 3 years, congratulations on that.



odfrank said:


> You can get back in but that shakeout of course has to be counted as a loss after 10/1. Both you and Charlie have to realize this is a competition, not nursery school.


----------



## squarepeg

yeah, not a nursery school, i get it. thanks dan, 73.


----------



## Charlie B

Charlie B said:


> I don't know what looks worse, those boxes or your bee suit!


Hey, Ollie got a new bee suit!


----------



## odfrank

Not the first or last time I've been called an ass. He's as handsome as I am in a bee suit.


----------



## StevenG

Hey odfrank, I re-started six years ago with 2 colonies... now 27 active ones... all treatment free. Had absolutely no time to work bees this year, as we've been in the process of doing a gut-rehab on our soon to be retirement home 150 miles away. My work interferes with my life? :lpf: I decided when we bought the house that this year and next would be a "maintenance" year - to keep what I've got, get relocated, then re-embark upon my expansion plans for the bees.
Regards,
Steven


----------



## Charlie B

Had to combine another hive today. 3 out of 35 gone to mites. All second year hives. The ones I treated with MAQS are all doing well.


----------



## odfrank

Charlie B said:


> Had to combine another hive today


Me too, Two out of five gone at my house. No treatments. 
Easy come, easy go.


----------



## StevenG

Or hard come, easy go? we do put a lot of effort into establishing the colonies...


----------



## GLOCK

Well lost one {hive}today . on tuesday i had 2 hive looking like it was spring so i know one was robbing and one was getting robbed i'm not sure what happen i'm going to take the hive apart later and take some pics i know they had low mite count and was heavy so i don't know geuss it was more of a dinky then i tought.
down to 14 . It had 70+ lb of honey it was a split i made in july.


----------



## BeeGhost

On break I stopped by my two city hives to do an exterior visual inspection, one hive had some bees coming and going...........the other one nothing. I tapped on the hive and no sound, I looked under the SBB and didnt see any bees, so I opened it up and not a single bee to be found, but about 60 pounds of capped honey. Took a couple frames out that were not glued down tight and looked in the empty comb, didnt see any white specks in the comb on the two frames I looked at, but I am quite sure its DBV............Death by Varroa. 

Hive info:
Double deep ten frame hive that swarmed in the spring which produced a very large swarm. Built back up to strong numbers in time for blackberry flow and packed on around 60 pounds of honey for me to extract. This hive was full on treatment free, not even powdered sugar dusting. 

I will be picking up the hive tomorrow and doing a thorough inspection tomorrow evening in the garage. The positive thing is I have plenty of capped honey to give to the other hives instead of feeding sugar syrup, and I have a lot of drawn comb. I will also take the top off the other hive tomorrow (first swarm catch of 2012) and look down into it to see how they are doing, weather pending.

So, started out with 8 hives, now down to 7.


----------



## fieldsofnaturalhoney

Sorry to hear about your lostes ladies & gentlemen:,, Look forward to reading the further diagnose of destruction/death of your ladies. As you know pictures are a bonus! Here in CO, we had our first major cold snap/moisture in about 5 weeks. I look forward to see who's flying in the next two days. High temps forecasted for 53. All 15 hives alive as of 12/8/12


----------



## Charlie B

I think we're going to get some interesting information after the challenge is over. I'm already seeing in my hives that the ones that had a brood break over the summer and re-queened are doing as well or better than the ones I used MAQS on. The remaining two year hives treated with powdered sugar only are the ones in trouble or have had to combine, (3 so far).


----------



## Adrian Quiney WI

Charlie, I was pondering this. Have you considered trying a MDA Splitter manipulation and thus guarantee a brood break? If you have drones you could even do it now.
In the bitterly cold north a brood break is ensured, whereas in paradise I am led to believe there is never one. Mel says: that a beekeeper only needs to ensure peak populations when he has peak nectar flows; that the large colonies that beekeepers have traditionally aimed for year round are more beneficial to mite production than colony survival; Also that africanized bees survive and thrive despite mites because of the brood break and the smaller colony size. 
MP and many others are noticing that nucs survive untreated whilst large colonies need to be treated. Year 2 I had 5 out of 8 colonies survive and those survivors had all undergone a brood break (split or swarm) in addition to our winter brood break.
Perhaps you could get together with OD, as the only downside I have seen with an MDA splitter intervention is that it works best with large supplies of empty drawn comb. Rumor has it he has some.


----------



## BeeGhost

Charlie, I agree. I am curious to see true info on what hives make it and what hives dont and wether or not they were splits, no treatment, treatment, heavy on stores, light on stores, queen age (if known), or if they were in nucs or other types of hive equipment.

My four hives made it last winter and they consisted of 2 deep hives that took frames from to start a couple of five frame nucs. The nucs built up strong this past spring and both big hives made it through just fine as well until one became a drone layer. 

Im gonna do some late summer nucs next year and either let them raise their own queens or stick queen cells into them, and then see how things turn out in the spring of 2014. 

Im really curious how my swarm hives will winter this year, if they make it I am going to split the heck out of them and graft some queen cells to see if I can keep them alive!!


----------



## Adrian Quiney WI

Charlie, another thought. I am wondering how combining weak hives works out for you? How does their survival rate compare to other hives that have not been combined?


----------



## Goat Man

What is a MDA Splitter???

Ignorance is bliss..:scratch:


----------



## Adrian Quiney WI

Mel Disselkoen Apiaries, Mel is a northern beekeeper. He has a web page. http://www.mdasplitter.com/index.php


----------



## Charlie B

Adrian,

I've watched Mel's video that was floating around this site and it make allot of sense. I think it's a more natural way of combating mites in addition to culling drone comb and as I can see in my own hives, it works. I'm small with 35 hives, well, 32 now so I have the time to do the manipulation.

It's such a temperate climate here that I still have hives with 4 boxes on and now the Eucalyptus is starting to flow so I'll be adding supers soon. The problem for me here in SF is the foggy windy weather is almost a death sentence to a virgin queen trying to mate. They almost never mate or mate properly.

Like BG, I'm going to raise my own queens next year in one of my warmer less windy beeyards in San Jose and see how that goes.

As far as combining weak hives, If I don't see any signs of disease, I'll add a weak hive to a strong one. The times I've combined two weak hives, it's almost never worked out so I stopped doing it.


----------



## oblib

Checked all mine with a stethoscope today. Not lost any more yet


----------



## Adrian Quiney WI

Charlie, the reason I ask about combining hives is that I'm starting to question its effectiveness related to overwintering. My logic is that if one of the parts of the combine is weak, and that is generally the reason for a combine, even if it is disease free it likely has a number of mites that the receiving colony can do without; In other words the harm to the receiving colony in accepting mite-ridden bees is greater than the good generated by the extra bee numbers. This might be especially true in an area where brood rearing never really shuts down. The receiving colony may have achieved a balance of sorts with its mite population which is thrown off when the mitey bees come in. Are colony combiners selecting for virulent mites that overpower colonies? Sorry for the early morning caffeine ramblings.


----------



## squarepeg

good point adrian. plus, the strong colony may have already adjusted it's population down for overwintering. i'm not sure i see the point combining, especially after foraging is over for the season.


----------



## Charlie B

I think you're right Adrian since the "weak" hive is most likely weak because of excessive mite load. I can see where this would apply to splits as well. It's not wise to split a hive or to make up nucs with mite infested brood and bees. 

I've also noticed that colonies from cutouts that have been established for a while don't do as well as swarm clusters hanging from a tree. This maybe because I rubberband the cut out brood full of mites into frames to get the cutout established in a hive box.


----------



## stoffel64

I can second Charlie's observation regarding a few weeks of no brood in late to mid summer.
I have few hives that were brood-less in mid to late summer. All these hives doing very very well, now.
I also treated several hives in September with MAQS and these hive are doing fine, too.

One of this not treated hives was a cut out. I killed the queen by accident when I did the cut out and the bees made 
a new one, she is performing nicely, now.


I think splitting hives in August after you pulled the honey could be a good idea in regard of reducing the mites.

I might lost one hive of my 14 hives but I am not 100% sure because I have not looked into this hive lately.
I still saw some traffic but this traffic could be robbers too. 
I hope I get nice warm day soon to verify whether this hive on the living side. 

Cheers
Stefan


----------



## Adrian Quiney WI

Charlie, actually I think splitting a mite-laden hive is the right thing to do if you are able to do it, and ensure that there is a period of broodlessness. Some of this runs counter to common teaching. Traditional methods advocate placing a caged queen with a split, and makes no mention of ensuring a period of broodlessness. In Mel's method a hive is made queenless and left as a whole until just before queen cell emergence - it is then that the splits are made. The period of broodlessness that ensues ensures a mite setback. 
If a beekeeper is making splits when queens are not going to get mated, alternative methods of ensuring a period of broodlessness take place need to be arranged. A variant of Roland's "above the excluder" method can be used. In a two deep hive shake all the bees off sealed, or nearly sealed, frames of brood. Place these frames in one of the deeps and place the excluder in between the two boxes. Leave it for a week. After a week, take the frames and adhering bees away to a new location, in the apiary or elsewhere. Add a caged queen. Leave her caged for at least three days, and than allow the bees to release her or release her yourself. This will ensure a period of broodlessness.


----------



## Daniel Y

Adrian, 
Something is missing in the math or the details for me. Most likely the details.

Day 1 fraems are isolated from any further laying. any one day old egg is 21 days from emergence. 10 days until a queen is reintroduced 7 days above excluder plus 3 days queen is caged. If the queen begins to lay immediately it will be an additional 8 days until that brood is capped. total of 19 days from isolation to new brood being capped. Capped brood has been present in the box at all times.

Mainly I am not seeing how the set back for the mite is working. Is the reduced capped brood the hive enough to effect this set back? Or ?????


----------



## Adrian Quiney WI

Daniel, the goal is to raise brood preferably sealed, above the excluder. If that occurs then there is 13 days to emerge. New brood should be capped on day 19. This should ensure a broodless period of about 6 days.


----------



## Daniel Y

Thanks Adrian, This is my first year wintering bees and I am on pins and needles about my choice of mite control. In researching it there are many methods. none seem to be reliable at least not always. I chose one. wish I had with a shotgun approach.


----------



## d-amick

Well, I lost 50% of my hives this week. 1 of my 2 hives died out from Varroa and Deformed Wing Virus so I lost half of my yard. Hive #1 was from a package which grew into a two deep box brood power hive. Hive #2 was a late caught outdoor colony in a meduim brood box which seems to be holding their own. Sad to lose what was such a fabulouse hive, my first, but I'll soldier on and look forward to new bees in the Spring. Small loss to others but half my bees to me.


----------



## rweakley

rweakley said:


> I am treatment free most years (for varroa,shb, or bee squirts (sorry couldn't remember name)) I have treated in the past with oxalic acid vaporization, Fall of 2011 I did, This fall I'm not.
> 
> Going into winter with 3 Single story deep hives, 2 double deep hives, 3 nucs, 2 double mediums, and 1 triple medium. 2 of the Nucs had been in fullsize hives, but didn't have time (or resources, dang drought) to build up to that strengh so I moved them back to nucs. Of course I'm 100% honest, but that has more to do with being a Boy Scout(40 years old and still try to live that way) than a Beekeeper LOL A scout is trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful...
> Rod


So far so good. None lost yet, but with how light they are I am scared to death I'm gonna lose them. I am throwing sugar on them or putting out feeders on days that are 50ish and above. Of course winter hasn't really started here yet so the real test will come in jan and feb. By then if we get flying days they will at least be able to go out and find some pollen. Long live MSMs (Missouri Survivor Mutts)

Rod


----------



## Goat Man

Hi Rod, et al,
I just checked all my hives today. When I removed the inner covers all the top bars were FULL of bees. Didn't want to disturb them further to check on stores. For some insurance I placed 8 to 12 lb. sugar cakes on them all. I also added 1/4lb pollen patty. We got lots of winter left so anything can happen by March1. But my hives seen ready. All hives are treatment free, small cell or foundationless, triple 8 frame mediums.


----------



## Eddie Honey

I lost one of 17 hives so far. It was a really weak nuc/colony that I believe I used too much from too late to strenthen other colonies. I think they perished during Hurricane Sandy. 

I also have 4 other nucs that are very small and I expect to lose. It looks like they have 1-1/2 to 2 frames of bees. We'll see.

The other 5 nucs and 7 colonies still look real strong.

I expanded from 3 colonies to 17 last year. If I wind up with 12 come Springtime I'll consider that a success and a lesson learned about how and when to split.

I treated with mineral oil/apple cider vinegar in SHB traps.


----------



## KQ6AR

Hey Edd, You guys have a small hive beetle problem in New Jersey?


----------



## Eddie Honey

KQ, it is a managable problem. Just completed my second year and I saw more beetles this year. It was a hot, dry summer and maybe that had something to do with it. I did a cut-out last March and that hive was full of beetles but the bees kept them coralled (sp) in the corners.

Last year I used the traps and it wasn't an issue.
This year I didn't use them and wound up with alot more beetles. 

The beetle traps seem to manage the problem but other factors may be at work here.


----------



## GLOCK

Well we got are first bad weather of the year here in the N.EAST we had high winds and cold temps. and a little snow all my hives did well all humming away i even seen a bee or two flying in and out real qwick can't wait till spring.


----------



## BayHighlandBees

I lost 100%. Two mite-weakened hive failed mid-fall due to excessive hive-robbing raids. A third queenless hive died out when the cold weather hit. I purchased a swarm nuc shortly after the first two failed. It doesn't have a lot of action on the outside, but it's definitely buzzing with activity on the inside!


----------



## Lauri

No surprises for me yet. Lost a few smaller nucs that never seemed to do much, a few large hives I waited too long to treat for mites and they crashed. But do you know what happens when you have a lot of hives? You almost _like_ a few losses so you can take all those drawn and filled frames and distribute them to the other robust hives, or have a reserve for springtime feeding,growth, checkerboarding, etc. 

Over all, all the other hives look great. 

Seems I can't video and talk at the same time-sorry
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-KOFdzQM1k&feature=youtu.be

Here is a triple divided deep hive with two Northern locally mated Glenn daughters.









Although this hive was fed some syrup this fall and was very heavy in weight, I put sugar bricks on all my hives ..some just for insurance. Many hives have had a large population of bees for a long time. They Still looks great. I gave all my hives a single Hop Guard mite treatment in late Sept/early October. Some probably could have used another treatment due to continued broodnest activities, but I lost my chance when the weather got cold. 
Heres an average triple nuc:









Photos are taken at 42 degrees. None of the hives are light, in fact many will have to be adjusted this spring to aviod the queen being honeybound. That's a lot of bees on the top though. 

Here's how I winterized them:









Only wraped on three sides. The front is facing south and uninsulated for solar gain.











Here is what I call my Franken hive.(When I assembled it it was a monster) Only the Two bottom deeps are made out of 1 1/2" car decking. Interesting, out of about 75 standard hives, this is the only one with bee activity at the top and bottom entrances @ 42 degrees.


















I had bees in this all summer, and surprisingly, it wasn't hard to manage. It's the filled frames that makes it heavy, not the additional wood. Look closley, the honey supers are standard 3/4" thick pine. Just firred out with a 1x2 to fit the larger exterior size of the bottom deeps.
Don't you wish your bees were in this thick hive right about now? 
Heres how it's made. The top and bottom entrances are reduced for winter. Screened bottom has slide in and top screened inner cover has 2" foam insulation










Heres where I keep the bees. Our 80 yard archery range. Hives and targets all along the edge.


----------



## Adrian Quiney WI

First loss today. A colony in a double deep had dwindled down to a small handful of bees. All 18 nucs still alive, 11 of 12 production colonies remain alive.
http://s1110.beta.photobucket.com/user/AdrianQuineyWI/media/2012-12-24143806.jpg.html?sort=6&o=0
There was 60 pounds of feed in the top deep.
http://s1110.beta.photobucket.com/user/AdrianQuineyWI/media/2012-12-24171354.jpg.html?sort=6&o=0
As Lauri says all is not lost the drawn frames are a valuable commodity.


----------



## Lauri

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iq243x6bu4I

Lauri's Franken hive (Shown in above post) @ 46 degrees

Another day at 46 degrees and once again the only hive that is active. I'll be making more of these 1 1/2" thick deeps next year. Anyone thinking about making a top bar hive should also consider car decking in my opinion. I am impressed with the overwintering success and colony contentment this hive is showing.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Miller-Compound-HoneyBees-and-Agriculture/256954971040510


----------



## KQ6AR

One of my strongest triple deep hives is looking week at the entrance. If we get a sunny day I'll have to intervene, maybe reduce size & close the bottom screen.


----------



## Charlie B

KQ6AR said:


> One of my strongest triple deep hives is looking week at the entrance. If we get a sunny day I'll have to intervene, maybe reduce size & close the bottom screen.


The next 10 days are suppose to be sunny and high 50's. Just in time for the Eucalyptus flow! Tired of all the rain! I'm still 32 hives strong out of 35.


----------



## cg3

6" fluffy snow this morning. Checked this afternoon and the snow had melted away from all my (reduced) entrances like there was a warm draft from inside. I'm taking it as encouraging news. I did lose a weak hive to robbing during Indian Summer so I'm down one to 16.


----------



## ralittlefield

Charlie B said:


> The next 10 days are suppose to be sunny and high 50's. Just in time for the Eucalyptus flow! Tired of all the rain! .


Man! I don't want to hear it!! I won't see those conditions for months!


----------



## BeeGhost

Checked my hives today and I am one lucky dude. Seen the water line and debris on my hive stand legs where the river went over its banks and flooded the flat my hives are on!! Flowed enough to move some 4x4 posts around that I had on the ground!! Anyhow, double deep nuc #1 had small numbers that I could see from the top and what looked like not much stores. The 3 two deep 10 framers are doing great!! The other two nucs are holding as well. I am going to run frames of honey out to them tomorrow from my dead out, and throw some pollen patties on. Temps are going to get around 30 at night all week, so they will need the food. As for the Eucalyptus bloom, its starting to happen for the globe eucs along the road, but I will be moving my bees in just over a week to their new home, dont need to lose hives to flood!! Didnt check the lone city hive, so no info on how that one is doing!!


----------



## Charlie B

I finally got around to extracting my dead out honey. After warming the honey, I still had to put a heat bulb under the extractor for better flow. (It's cold here!)








Here are some of the girls yesterday going after Eucalyptus. *(Note the ant proof hive stand working like a charm).


----------



## Rader Sidetrack

Charlie B said:


> It's cold here!


_How cold is it_, he said? :scratch:




Charlie B said:


> Here are some of the girls yesterday going after Eucalyptus


You mean they are flying? In _cold _weather? _How cold is it_, he said? :scratch:

:lookout: 


Nice hive stand!


----------



## KQ6AR

You have ant problems on the roof top?


----------



## Charlie B

Dan,

When it gets cold there is an invasion of Argentine ants. Almost every tenant in the building calls me to spray them. They eventually smell the honey and armies ascend on the roof hives. Even my strongest hives can't stop the on-slot. I've tried everything and they keep on coming until I finally had enough and came up with these upside down grease traps. It's the only thing that works.


----------



## odfrank

KQ6AR said:


> You have ant problems on the roof top?


Dan, 
Ever heard the term "Slumlord"?


----------



## Charlie B

Rader Sidetrack said:


> _How cold is it_, he said? :scratch:
> You mean they are flying? In _cold _weather? _How cold is it_, he said? :scratch:
> :lookout:
> Nice hive stand!


It's so cold that Olly has to use the bottom end of his bi-focals to pee!


----------



## odfrank

Charlie B said:


> It's so cold that Olly has to use the bottom end of his bi-focals to pee!


Bifocals don't help when your pot belly is as big as a double brood chamber and your desired target as small as a house mouse.


----------



## KQ6AR

Got a look in my large hive today, its gone from a triple deep full of bees down to about a softball size cluster. I've run mostly Yugo/Russians, muts, & carnies in my yard so very small clusters in the winter aren't uncommon for them. No dead bees in the hive or on the ground, plenty of capped honey. I'm betting they'll make it.


 I resemble that statement



odfrank said:


> Dan,
> Ever heard the term "Slumlord"?


----------



## Goat Man

Charlie, how long is your stand and how far apart are the doll rods?? How many hives do you get on each stand?
Gathering the materials now to build a few by spring.. Thanks Charlie


----------



## Charlie B

Goat Man said:


> Charlie, how long is your stand and how far apart are the doll rods?? How many hives do you get on each stand?


This particular stand is 8' long with 6 support dowels spaced evenly, 3 on each side. I have a 12' stand at my San Mateo yard that requires 8 dowels, 4 on each side spaced evenly for proper load support. I can place 8 hives on my 12' stand and 5 hives on my 8' stand but I use 8 frame equipment which is 14" wide. 10 frame equipment is obviously wider so you could probably get 4 10 frame hives on an 8' stand with adequate room between each hive.

If you're going through the time and expense to build one I would do a 12' stand. You could even build a 16' stand with 10 support dowels depending on how many hives you have. Something to keep in mind if you plan on making up nucs or doing splits, this stand is excellent to keep ants away while they're growing and gaining strength so make it longer than what you need at this point and time.


----------



## Goat Man

Thanks Charlie that clarifies it for me..


----------



## BeeGhost

On the way up to our property I stopped to feed the bees some frames of honey, and to my surprise they are doing a lot better than I thought with the nucs covering 4 of the bottom five frames!! Even have fresh nectar from Eucalyptus coming in!! I dropped a couple capped frames in each nuc and called it good, lots of bees flying out of the hives as well, so if I am lucky I might have 7 of 8 hives make to spring build up! They also cleaned up the SBB of dead bees that was there yesterday. Six of my remaining seven hives are either from swarms or cut outs. Cant wait to do some splitting and grafting from these hives in the spring!!


----------



## Charlie B

Goat Man said:


> Thanks Charlie that clarifies it for me..


You're very welcome. You'll be glad you took a little extra time to build one come summer when you're making up nucs.


----------



## odfrank

The only hives that I have had destroyed by ants were nucs with queen cage candy in them. What are you doing wrong?


----------



## JRG13

With all the rain, the ants start coming out of the plug outlets in the house. I hate argentine ants.


----------



## Charlie B

odfrank said:


> The only hives that I have had destroyed by ants were nucs with queen cage candy in them. What are you doing wrong?


I put a frame of honey in all my nucs I make up and that's obviously what they're after. My San Mateo, San Jose and Bolinas yards have never had ants. Both Saratoga yards have more ants than soil!

Go figure! :s


----------



## GLOCK

If you have top feeders and ya get alot of dead ants in the feeder will that cause any type of disease ?
I had alot of ants in the bee yards and i tryed cinnamon waste of time and money .
I'm going with baiting the ants with poison come spring we'll se if it works.


----------



## Charlie B

Glock,

Not sure about the dead ants causing disease. As far as the ant poison, that didn't work for me. In looking at your hive stand, it wouldn't take much to make it ant proof. Just add another layer of hive joist with grease dowels in between.


----------



## GLOCK

Charlie B said:


> Glock,
> 
> Not sure about the dead ants causing disease. As far as the ant poison, that didn't work for me. In looking at your hive stand, it wouldn't take much to make it ant proof. Just add another layer of hive joist with grease dowels in between.



Charlie thak you. I f you know how my stand is then i guess i could grease the cender blocks that the 4x4 set on you think that will work?


----------



## Charlie B

Glock,

I think it would work as a temporary measure but rain and debris would eventually break it down causing allot of touch up using allot of grease. The upside down PVC grease cups eliminate that where you hardly ever have to do any maintenance. If you place your hives directly over the grease cups, you never have to worry about any touch up.


----------



## squarepeg

i was able to get rid of some pesky sugar ants (very small and black, not fire ants).

they took the baited fire ant granules in just like the fire ants do.

(on fire ants, i plan on leaving some mounds in the vicinity of the hives, i think they help with hive beetles)

also, if i found sugar ants' hole in the ground, i squirted some bug stuff into the hole.

they're gone now.


----------



## GLOCK

Do you have a pic or web addy do you?
I'm not getting what you mean getting old.
Thank you.
Do you mean like 3in pvc caps{for pluming} fliped upside down filled with gease and put the caps on the 4x4s and the the hive on top them?


----------



## Charlie B

Glock,

Here's a link to a previous thread I started that has pics and instructions. There are two designs I came up with. The wood dowel design is towards the end of the thread.

http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...ctually-Works!&highlight=ant+proof+hive+stand


----------



## BayHighlandBees

an ant stand on your roof? Wow, you must really have some powerful ants in your neighborhood!


----------



## GLOCK

Charlie B said:


> Glock,
> 
> Here's a link to a previous thread I started that has pics and instructions. There are two designs I came up with. The wood dowel design is towards the end of the thread.
> 
> http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...ctually-Works!&highlight=ant+proof+hive+stand


Charlie B thank you so much i'm going with this set up








is that a rat trap under the stand?


----------



## Charlie B

Glock,

Yes it is. We have some pretty good size rats wanting honey as well.


----------



## odfrank

Charlie B said:


> Glock,Yes it is. We have some pretty good size rats wanting honey as well.


Rats, ants....how do you keep your tenants?


----------



## KQ6AR

We have a few club members who pour some used motor oil on the cinder blocks with good results. Seems the ants hate oil, Even a year after I put a little oil in my water cups the ants still stay away from them.



GLOCK said:


> Charlie thak you. I f you know how my stand is then i guess i could grease the cender blocks that the 4x4 set on you think that will work?


----------



## Charlie B

KQ6AR said:


> We have a few club members who pour some used motor oil on the cinder blocks with good results. Seems the ants hate oil, Even a year after I put a little oil in my water cups the ants still stay away from them.


See Uncle Olly, even Dan had ant problems. It's not just me!


----------



## Colleen O.

I peaked in the observation window of my weaker hive today and they are still hanging in. There were a few dead bees and some capping wax crumbs visible under the cluster but the bees were moving in place keeping warm. Two more months! (I did order an "insurance package" just in case though ...)


----------



## WWW

Checked my hives yesterday, the temperatures have finally moderated into the 50 degree range during the day after weeks of freezing weather. All six hives have been house cleaning and are still heavy when hefted, looking good so far. :thumbsup: We still have a ways to go before were out of the woods.


----------



## Charlie B

Nice Bill, you're always doing something right!


----------



## WWW

Thanks Charlie, I appreciate your positivity.


----------



## minz

Exact same story here, hit 50 I popped the tops, checked the dry sugar. Nucs each took a couple of lbs in the feeders (lost one of 4). All others seem to be alive (4 doubles and a single) and not needing it yet. I was surprised how hard the top of the sugar piles were. A lot of condensation I guess.


----------



## WWW

Good job minz, spring isn't to for off, it will be here before we know it.


----------



## rweakley

If I had to bring the NUC indoors (sorta, room stays about 45-50 degreees) to finish getting through the winter, does that count as a survival? A few days ago on a day when all the hives were flying except this nuc I popped into it and it looked for all the world to be a dead out, but just hoping I blew some warm breath down on them and they started slowly moving a leg or 2. I brought them into a warm bathroom to get them fully warmed up (also put some more sugar in there) and then moved them to the cool room. Today I quickly went in there to see if the queen was still alive and sure enough there she is. So if this NUC lives do I get to count it?


----------



## BeeGhost

RWeakley, 

I didn't see a rule stated on how your beehive has to stay alive, as long as it is alive come the competition end date!


----------



## odfrank

BeeGhost said:


> RWeakley, I didn't see a rule stated on how your beehive has to stay alive, as long as it is alive come the competition end date!


See the first ten posts. It is not much of a competition if it is no holds barred. The Keiths of the group likely have a big advantage over the treatment frees. There is natural beekeeping and there is factory farming beekeeping. If their success rate isn't a lot higher than mine I feel sorry for them.


----------



## KQ6AR

You live in MO, sounds like you put a weak nuc into a barn or shed. I certainly don't have a problem with that. 
I closed the screened bottom board on my weak hive the other day, & I don't think it disqualifies that hive.




rweakley said:


> If I had to bring the NUC indoors (sorta, room stays about 45-50 degreees) to finish getting through the winter, does that count as a survival? A few days ago on a day when all the hives were flying except this nuc I popped into it and it looked for all the world to be a dead out, but just hoping I blew some warm breath down on them and they started slowly moving a leg or 2. I brought them into a warm bathroom to get them fully warmed up (also put some more sugar in there) and then moved them to the cool room. Today I quickly went in there to see if the queen was still alive and sure enough there she is. So if this NUC lives do I get to count it?


----------



## oblib

WAIT... I thought we were trying to lose more than odfrank.:ws:


----------



## Adrian Quiney WI

There are 49 days left for our bees to survive to the end of the OD challenge. We are in a short January thaw it may reach a positively balmy 40 degrees tomorrow. I'm at home and may add a few frames of honey tomorrow, 29/30 are still kicking along.


----------



## odfrank

oblib said:


> WAIT... I thought we were trying to lose more than odfrank.:ws:


I am well on my way to winning this competition also. You guys better try harder.


----------



## fieldsofnaturalhoney

HIVE DOWN,!!!!, Lost one of the 15, down to 14. This was a hive that started as a cut-out and was going into their second winter. Looking back and going through the hive, lots of possible factors that may have led to their demise. I noticed a lot of darker portions on top of the frames (appears to me to be water/moisture stains). There were at least 12 queen cells (most of them appeared old/safety net cells) on the frames (thirty in all). This hive was not checked regularly enough in the fall, so going into winter I did not have a good knowledge base of their health/status going into winter. Of course some mites in the oil tray but not excessive, and remaining brood not stringy. Long story short, not a dead bee in the hive, but lots of resources for the spring.:sc
























ratch: How they began,,,






Good news is that I made a split from them earlier in the year, so their genetics will live on. (which time will tell if this is a good thing or not)


----------



## BeeGhost

Lost another hive within the last month, probably quite recently. It was a city hive next to the one I lost sometime in like November. This time there were a bunch of dead bees on the SBB, and a very small cluster of dead bees in between two frames. I didn't see the queen in the cluster but will investigate more when I bring the hive home. There were bees in the empty comb sticking butt out and the same symtoms as the last dead out, some emerging brood with tongues out and a few cells of capped brood. No eggs and no exposed larva this time. Cell cappings were not perforated or sunk in either. As for food.........a full 10 frame deep packed with honey.....................and ants. Also seen a couple dead SHB. Another thing I noticed is the fresh nectar that was brought in, some clear and a lot with a cloudy white substance. Anyone guess what the white substance is?? And with this hive loss, im down to 6 from 8, 25% loss so far...........Ollie im going to win the "most losses" competition if it keeps going this way!
A squirrel or mouse tried to chew through the top entrance.








Dead bees on SBB








Size of the small cluster of dead bees that were between the two frames.








White substance in cells of nectar?


----------



## KQ6AR

One out of 7 down.
My nuc that was having trouble raising a queen in the fall died.


----------



## MeriB

Down one of four, with two weak and one booming!


----------



## GLOCK

12 HIVES 2 NUCS as of today lost 1 since i jumped in this thread.


----------



## BeeGhost

Picked up the dead out today and looked through it. Obvious signs of Varroa death, deformed wings of dead bees on bottom board, white specks in the cells and so on, will pull some capped larva to see if mites are present on them. The white stuff is either fermentation or crystalizing nectar, no smell of chemicals. Searching through all the dead bees on the bottom board and didn't find the queen, she may have died earlier and got carried out, or her corpse dropped out when I lifted the boxes apart. Going to do oxalic acid vapor treatment on my country hives tomorrow, even though they looked like they were doing great!


----------



## WWW

Hate to hear that you lost another hive BG, the OAV should make a difference with the others.


----------



## BeeGhost

Thanks WWW! Gonna do the first treatment tomorrow on the 6 hives I have left! Take care!


----------



## KQ6AR

Did powdered sugar mite tests on some of our hives Friday, 60F weather!
Numbers where very low over here, shouldn't need to check again for a couple months.


----------



## GLOCK

Well i lost two hives to this last cold snap we are having 0- temps with wind but i know they may not make it trought to spring they had weak hums last time i checked and the hum check seems to work. Thats ok going in to this past spring my goals where to have 10 this coming spring and i'm still 2 ahead of my goals. I now have xtra frames with comb and hives to to play with and i sure did learn alot this past year.


----------



## Adrian Quiney WI

I put an ear to the colonies today. I have lost one more over this cold snap. It was a three deep set up. To be honest it was not set up the best for winter. The stores were not as heavy in the top box as I would have liked and they never moved up. They starved out in the middle box around a patch of brood. Last winter I think they would have made it as it didn't really get cold long enough to keep them isolated. It was not a case of CCD, or AFB, or PMS, but rather a case of PPB (p*** poor beekeeping). I have 28/30 colonies that I planned to overwinter still alive.
Viewing of the deceased is contained in the first 3 pictures of the attached link. http://s1110.beta.photobucket.com/user/AdrianQuineyWI/library/


----------



## Goat Man

All hives still alive. Temps were in the 40's today after several days of teens and twenties. Carni's were out flying but the Italians didn't get out much. Checked the stores of the hives and most still had lots of honey. Italians were some what lighter then the rest. They had eaten about half of the 8 pound sugar cake that was placed on top of the frames earlier. Carni's hadn't gotten into the sugar cakes yet. Observations so far, Carnie's are more active in colder temps and Italians eat more stores. I am hoping to be able to determine which sized hives do better over winter, 5 frame nucs, full 8/10 frame supers, mediums, deeps, singles or doubles. It sounds like, so far, small nucs are doing better then larger hives.


----------



## WWW

I placed a stethoscope on the hives today and knocked, all six hives greeted me with the familiar zzzzZZZZZzzzz, I am still in the hunt.

The extremely cold weather over the last few weeks is letting up for this coming week, this should give the bees some flying time, then the temps will drop again by weeks end.


----------



## odfrank

I am well on my way to winning this competition. Losses spotted so far at various yards:
40%, 60%, 100%, 0%, 0%, 0%, 30%, 42%

The 0% and 100% are both two hive sites within a mile of each other, both stocked with bait hives caught on site.


----------



## WWW

That's some pretty tough losses Ollie, looks like you may be right on course to winning the hard way. On a serious note though, I hope you are close enough to spring to turn these loses around and start rebuilding.


----------



## BeeGhost

Wow Ollie, those are some tough losses. But, within a few months you will be back up to par with your trap line!!

Bill,
Congrats on having everything surviving so far!! I checked the hives today just to see the mite drop since Friday............holy smokes, amazing!!! I lifted one double deep off the hive pallet and counted 35 dead mites on the solid bottom board, lifted the second double deep off and counted a whopping 72 dead mites!! The third double deep had 27 dead mites!! Looks like the OAV treatment worked after all!! Going to treat again Thursday after work and then finish up with another treatment the following week. Wish I could have treated my two dead outs, I bet the bottom board would have been red!! Think I might transfer my nucs into single deeps Thursday also and treat them as well. The entrances are to small to treat with the OAV right now.

On a side note, LOTS of yellow pollen coming in right now!!


----------



## BeeGhost

KQ6AR said:


> Did powdered sugar mite tests on some of our hives Friday, 60F weather!
> Numbers where very low over here, shouldn't need to check again for a couple months.


You must be in the sweet spot Dan!! It also sounds like your IPM system works great!!


----------



## Moon

I didn't chime in at the start of the fall with what I had for hive counts but since I went out yesterday and looked all give you guys what I've got for numbers. You can either believe me or think I'm B.S'ing ya. 

I started the spring with 36 hives which quickly turned to 39 due to a swarm and 2 splits I made. By the end of the summer I was down to 36 hives and ~20 nuc's. Went out and checked all of my hives last weekend and all but one of my nucs had died (I figured the rest weren't going to make it because I didn't really do much to help them make it through, they were made up to late in the year); however, all of my hives (except for 1 that was queenless, morbid curiosity on how they would fare forced me to leave them be) are still alive. So I have 1 nucleus still alive and 35 production still alive as of yesterday out of ~20 nucs, and 36. No idea how you guys are doing your maths but in my mind, that nuc will turn around and become a full size production colony as soon as mid march hits and the weather permits so I went into winter with 36 hives and I'm coming out of winter with 36 hives (hopefully). Last year was my first year raising queens and creating nucs so the nucs I'm chalking up 100% to a learning experience. I learned A LOT about the nuc management and queen breeding so hopefully this year they will fare quite a bit better.

That's all for now =D


----------



## KQ6AR

Hi moon,
Sorry to hear about the nucs, we have been counting a lost nuc as a lost hive. So no difference.


----------



## WWW

BG, Thanks for the compliment, and the success of your treatments is great news I can see you going through next winter with no losses, keep up the good work :thumbsup:.

Moon, each nuc is counted as a hive, I am glad that you still have your production hives.


----------



## Charlie B

Bill,

Please do another overwintering project next winter. It's very boring this winter without your hive temperature post! I've been trying to keep busy playing jokes on Olly but it's just not the same without your on line experiments.


----------



## odfrank

Charlie B said:


> I've been trying to keep busy playing jokes on Olly


I DO NOT WET MY BED AND HAVEN'T FOR OVER 55 YEARS. ha ha ha, you're a funny guy. Now go apologize to Benjamin.


----------



## WWW

Charlie,
I will give it some thought, surly there is something we could experiment with to pass these long winter nights :thumbsup:. Sounds like Olly could use the reprieve .


----------



## Charlie B

Sorry Ben!


----------



## RayMarler

I must be close to first place... I've still got 3 out of 13 buzzing along on sunny days. Mites were the biggest culprit. Lack of fall flows another.


----------



## odfrank

RayMarler said:


> I must be close to first place... I've still got 3 out of 13


That is 77% loss, you are ahead of me. Another Champion! I think we here in Mid California have had higher loss rate since 2006? Was that treatment free?


----------



## rweakley

And here I thought the point was to keep them alive. Silly me. LOL So far I have 9 out of 10 still alive and the 10th one has some bees in it, but don't think they will make it. My biggest problem this winter has simply been the bees not having enough food due to the drought. I do see mites on my inserts under my screened bottom boards, but maybe 15 or 20, and that's not a 24hr #, that's a hey it's been a few weeks lets look at how many mites are on the board and then clean it off #. LOL We had 60 degree weather the last couple days and I got into a couple of the hives to see how things were fairing, and they look ok (could be better on stores of course), even saw some brood and saw a few bees with pollen on their baskets. Just gotta make it to march and things will be fine. 
Rod


----------



## GLOCK

rweakley said:


> And here I thought the point was to keep them alive.
> Rod


ME two hehe i'm down to 12 from 19 in AUGS i'm getting close to 50% but the ones i have now seem strong my nus seem to be eating alot and i had to add more sugar to the top of them today . It was near 60 today and in the 20s tomorro not like last year thats for sure.


----------



## Charlie B

I got drones already in some of my hives, Eucalyptus flow is on, good times are coming!


----------



## RayMarler

odfrank said:


> That is 77% loss, you are ahead of me. Another Champion! I think we here in Mid California have had higher loss rate since 2006? Was that treatment free?


Yea Olly, all they got from me was sugar water and pollen sub in the fall. I started a month late on the sub and did not continue it long enough. 1 of the remaining 3 ain't going to make it, I looked under the hood today. The other 2 have a fighting chance.


----------



## BeeGhost

Charlie B said:


> I got drones already in some of my hives, Eucalyptus flow is on, good times are coming!


Dang, you've got drones already! Right on! The euc flow is fattening up my country hives for the move, if I can ever find the time to move them! Not in a big hurry though, I want fresh eggs in the hive incase something happens to the queens in transport. Might transfer my nucs to single deeps tomorrow after work though so I can treat them with the OAV.


----------



## Zier64

I lost 1 to starvation but not anything else. Soggoing good...still snowing but if i can get everyone through with food till spring.


----------



## Charlie B

Four more gone. 28 out of 35 left. Not a good day.


----------



## BeeGhost

Still not bad Charlie!


----------



## franktrujillo

im doing very well i have 13 of 13 left i checked them 5 days ago treatment free.they were all doing cleansing flights.one more month to go before maples bloom


----------



## WWW

Wow, you fellas in California have had a rough go of it this winter, I hope things turn around for you with the Eucalyptus flow.


----------



## Charlie B

BeeGhost said:


> Still not bad Charlie!


I guess I should be thankful for the hives I have left but most of the deadouts were my oldest colonies, some of which I was really attached too.  

Is it time for swarm traps yet?


----------



## odfrank

Last week I found a queen wandering around outside in the gravel, then I found a queen wandering around in a dead out hive, and today I found a 1 1/2 story hive crammed from top to bottom with winter honey and looking queenless, no eggs no larvae, no sealed brood. Fifty plus pounds of honey produced after 8/6 from an April 12 bait hive that languished until after August. Brood combs full of new honey.


----------



## psfred

Well, last warm day I took a look, there were a couple dozen dead bees in front of both hives, so I guess there are still live bees in there to carry the dead ones out!

Gotta check weight soon so I can feed in necessary, but we will have at least a couple more weeks of sub-freezing nights so I won't be able to look inside for a while yet.

Hoping to get a decent honey crop this year.

Peter


----------



## Adrian Quiney WI

Another one bit the dust, a tiny cluster in a double-deep. http://s1110.beta.photobucket.com/u...3-02-09091846_zps34908fd5.jpg.html?sort=6&o=0
Winter survival so far is 9/12 in regular 10 frame configurations, and 18/18 in 5 frame nuc equipment; Although based upon the frost ring around the upper entrances there may be a couple of the nucs on their last legs. I will check in a week or two when the weather is warmer.


----------



## Bear Creek Steve

I'm doing about the same as franktrujillo here in Colorado. 7 out of 7 still going strong. Lots of girls out on cleansing flight during the last warm days, but we still have a bit of winter left to go. My aspens have catkins set but not yet opening.

Steve


----------



## psfred

Three for three here, hives are still heavy. 

We seem to lose most of our hives during the next month or six weeks around here, they tend to starve out when they start up brood rearing as the weather warms if they don't have adequate stores. We get blasts of arctic air still, and sometimes heavy snow, and if they can't get out and forage, eat everything up.

Looking forward to a good honey crop this year!

Peter


----------



## KQ6AR

Almonds are starting to bloom around here, Ornamental fruit trees will start in the next 2 weeks our winter is almost over here.
Chemical free, powdered sugar only, worst year out of the last three *29% loss*.
previous two years where 100% survival basically the same treatment strategy the last 5 years.


----------



## Daniel Y

I am four for four still but I am being mindfull of all this late winter starvation talk. I added sugar to the top of my two nucs. I think the big hive is goign to be fine and actually has about twice as much honey as it ever needed.


----------



## odfrank

KQ6AR said:


> Almonds are starting to bloom around here, Ornamental fruit trees will start in the next 2 weeks our winter is almost over here.
> Chemical free, powdered sugar only, worst year out of the last three *29% loss*.previous two years where 100% survival basically the same treatment strategy the last 5 years.


>I might have a chance to beat OD on this one, last two winters 0% loss.
Powdered sugar is my only treatment. Going to be taking 4 hives, & 3 nucs into winter = 7

Oh how the mighty fall.....


----------



## cg3

This is over at the end of the month, right? That gives us an advantage as March is when spring starvation happens around here.


----------



## Charlie B

Finally a little good news. Just check my rooftop hives today. 5 of the strongest have two supers of Eucalyptus honey each. Bay Area keeps check your hives!


----------



## odfrank

What source of queens? What medication routine?


----------



## BeeGhost

Heck ya, right on Charlie! Nice strong hives!


----------



## WWW

Way to go Charlie, please keep us updated!


----------



## Charlie B

Olly,

These hives were a combination of swarms and splits with queens from Pete in San Jose. All were treated with MAQS late summer.


----------



## Charlie B

WWW said:


> Way to go Charlie, please keep us updated!


Thanks Bill. This week I have to make the rounds to my other bee yards. I haven't seen those hives in over a month being on my back with a sinus infection. I'm nervous as to what I'll find.


----------



## KQ6AR

Whats you're final count this winter?



odfrank said:


> Oh how the mighty fall.....


----------



## Boone

I lost 50% this winter, out of 8 hives. All the ones that died were small swarms, and didn't really have a chance.


----------



## Charlie B

March 1st. is right around the corner everyone. I'm down 7 out of 35 so far.


----------



## BeeGhost

Just checked my hives after work and they are rockin! One single deep is 8 frames of bees, need to throw a deep on it. The other two singles are about 5 frames each. My three double deeps are pumping as well. I'm going to graft some queens probably in a week and see what happens!


----------



## Charlie B

Nice BG, I'm seeing drones already.


----------



## BeeGhost

Charlie B said:


> Nice BG, I'm seeing drones already.


When I moved the nucs into singles a couple weeks ago I seen capped drone cells as well! Hopefully it's a productive spring and I can get my hive count close to twenty by July! Take care bud!


----------



## Daniel Y

I am 0 losses for 4 colonies so far. They where foraging yesterday and bringing in pollen. So my question now is. how do you determine when they have survived the last season and the new season has officially started.


----------



## Adrian Quiney WI

Daniel, are you asking about the new season for your region or for the purposes of the OD challenge?


----------



## Daniel Y

For my season in general. For now it is in my head it starts when the queen starts her spring build up.


----------



## KQ6AR

Hi Daniel,
On the forum I've seen a swarm listed for socal, & one for FL. A guy in my bee club said he got a call for one on the SF peninsula. I usually go by when the ornamental fruit trees start blooming.

Very few drones in my hives yet.


----------



## Daniel Y

California sucks all the warmth and moisture from the air before they send it over the Sierras to us. We live with that cold mountain air pouring down on us year round. it is nice in July. February not so much. Palm trees grow in Sacramento. Two hours away where I am. you can't get cactus to grow without watering them. They grow the worlds almonds there and just over the hill is Death Valley. not far in distance but a completely different world. and it is all due to the mountains that are between here and there. I vote we level them.


----------



## fieldsofnaturalhoney

KQ6AR said:


> Whats you're final count this winter?


What is the final date of the challenge?


----------



## Charlie B

As stated in my original post, 

"We'll go by number of hives lost beginning October 1, 2012 thru March 1, 2013". Everyone should report in on March 1st. on number of hives lost in this time frame including nucs and then calculate your percentage of hives lost.


----------



## odfrank

Charlie B said:


> As stated in my original post, "We'll go by number of hives lost beginning October 1, 2012 thru March 1, 2013". Everyone should report in on March 1st. on number of hives lost in this time frame including nucs.


Charlie, have you considered that some members of BeeSource don't live in California and their hives might still be deep in snow? Getting a little feeble in the waning years? Has all that in coming eucalyptus honey clogged your mind? Getting lightheaded lifting all those eight frame mediums? Hate to see me win another of your silly challenges and exclude most of the country from having a chance to out do me?


----------



## cg3

Really, it's not a problem. I can just shovel a path out there and check them.


----------



## Charlie B

As cg3 says, I think the snowbound hives can be checked for any buzzing easy enough. I've never had bees in the snow so correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## cg3

If you whack 'em hard enough with the snow shovel you can hear them.


----------



## VickyLynn

I am not officially registered in the overwintering challenge, but I have been following this thread. Last year I lost both my hives, one to starvation. 

This year, knock on wood, they are both still alive. I have paths shoveled out to them through two feet of snow. Yesterday was mild (44), so I went in to give them another fondant patty (I had given them one during a January thaw, too). I also added some pollen patty Both hives are two deeps plus a super which had capped honey in the fall. In January both hives' supers were empty of honey, but I could see down below in the top deep that there was still some left. Yesterday, one of my hives had clear honey in several of the super frames. I am wondering whether they are making honey out of the fondant patty I gave them. I am just so afraid of them starving - we are at least a month or more away from pussy willows and maples.
Maple sugar season begins around George Washington's birthday (Feb.22) and that marks the beginning of the beginning of spring.


----------



## odfrank

They didn't over winter until they are out foraging well into spring. I will have fist size clusters on 3/1 that will die after that. If you want everybody to be able to participate honestly (Like Honest Ollie) you have to extend the ending date to what, 6/1?


----------



## KQ6AR

By 6/1 I will have doubled my hive count, & caught at least a dozen swarms. So I guess my #'s would be way up from fall.


----------



## rweakley

odfrank said:


> They didn't over winter until they are out foraging well into spring. I will have fist size clusters on 3/1 that will die after that. If you want everybody to be able to participate honestly (Like Honest Ollie) you have to extend the ending date to what, 6/1?



You have to draw the line somewhere and I think that March 1st is a pretty fair date to go by. If you wanted to be "FAIR" you'd have to have separate challenges for each of the zones or subzones and different dates for each, but since this is nationwide you gotta draw a line somewhere. Besides all of us know if we lose a hive after march 1st to say may1st it may have had something to do with overwintering. Not like there is a monster prize involved. LOL


----------



## Charlie B

rweakley said:


> You have to draw the line somewhere and I think that March 1st is a pretty fair date to go by.


Thank you Rod for being the voice of reason here. Sometimes Olly comes up with really bazaar notions. I think he's free basing and snorting to much propolis.


----------



## Adrian Quiney WI

Charlie, as you are the judge (and OD is the mascot) Have you decided how long you will give the participants to self report their totals. Two weeks? A month? I thought I read somewhere the prize was one of OD's saplings shipped free to a destination of the winners choice or a pound of his honey if you happen to live in a cold climate....


----------



## Charlie B

Adrian,

I think by March 10th is ample time and you're right, Olly should donate a BeeBee Tree sapling to the winner AND a pound of honey. (However, I've seen pictures of his honey house, I would just go with the sapling).


----------



## KQ6AR

Hold on I like Olivers rules, I can end the contest with more hives than I started with.


----------



## odfrank

KQ6AR said:


> By 6/1 I will have doubled my hive count, & caught at least a dozen swarms. So I guess my #'s would be way up from fall.


Dan, it is over wintering challenge, not a swarm catching challenge.


----------



## Eyeshooter

Started with 18 colonies split between 2 yards. One yard still good with 4 nucs, 2 hives. In the 2nd yard, the wind blew so hard during the recent blizzard, it bent the snow fence stakes I was using backwards and blew the wind break into the hives. It moved the telescoping covers plus inner covers off 3 of the hives, exposing the cluster. Wet bees in winter means dead bees in the spring. Count me down 3 of 18. Even had about 8 pounds of rock on each cover...Remaining 3 nucs and 6 hives out there doing well.


----------



## WWW

That is a tough way to loose hives Shooter, perhaps the worst of winter is over.


----------



## dnichols

I thought I would chime in. Started off with 4 hives last year. Split to 12. Lost three going into winter (bad queens) and one absconded :scratch: and three prior to NE Blizzard, starvation (I didn't get to em quick enough to supplement, Grrrrr  ) So mad at myself! :doh:

Just went out today, cloudy and in the 40's. I still have 6. Four are taking Mountain Camp like crazy and two are not. I will check again during the next weather break. We will see if they make it.


----------



## psfred

Didn't register to start, so this is just noise, not data, but we are currently three for three. Mine are quite heavy, so I'm letting them manage on their own until it warms up more, when I'll stick in half a protein patty for good luck. My brother's hive is light, so we will be putting some candy and dry sugar on the inner cover until it's warm enough to dig further in.

I knew I still had bees today when I walked out the back door and one flew up and checked out the red squares in my plaid shirt!

Peter


----------



## Charlie B

I discovered three more dead in San Jose. That makes 10 out of 35 gone.:w: I'm taking Olly's advice and using all my 10 frame deeps as bait hives. Oh wait, I feel another challenge coming on....yeah, another swarm challenge.


----------



## KQ6AR

10 of 35 you might beat OD in this challenge.


----------



## odfrank

My sites with only a few hives have fared better than my site with 40. More contagious due to crowding?


----------



## Moon

Went and checked yeseterday, all of my nucs had a 100% mortality (that's no big deal, I was completely expecting that because they were late season nucs and I didn't feed them or prep them to survive the winter at all) and have lost 4 of my 39 production colonies. Down to 35 hives of 39 and 0 of probably 20-25ish nucs? Not sure because I didn't keep an accurate count of the nucs becaues as I said, I was anticipating a 100% mortality from them last year.

Total loss ~ 29 hives
or
~ 45%


----------



## CaBees

All 4 survived with 1weak so it went to a smaller box. Bottom comb full of moisture and few brood so we shall see. Moved a gift hive down from the about 2-3 miles away, today is the first day and they are bringing in pollen. Reconfigured my hive layout (with the help if a few strong men) yesterday with some hive movement, pissed off bees! Today they are over it and orientation all day. Spectacular warm perfect day in Novato, suppose to stay this way a few more days. I think I will be able to split two hives in a few weeks.

Not sure how swarm active I will be this summer....
It has already started!


----------



## Charlie B

Alright everyone, the challenge is over. Time to report in with your dead vs. live hive counts and then figure the lose by percentage. I lost 10 out of 35 which is a 28% lose.


----------



## MeriB

Strted with 4 hives, three (75%) made it. 2 are weak, but they made it.


----------



## psfred

All three going strong a couple days ago, but feeding my brother's since they are light. Kinda premature to declare success here, as it's snowing today, but so far no losses this year.

Last year we lost two of three.

Peter


----------



## minz

minz said:


> Just to be difficult, 4 hives, 2 nucs and trying to get 2 nucs QR for the winter (emerge Sept 1). So I could be 4, 6 or 8! how do you count? Treatment? not this season, yet, low counts.
> Seriously 4 to count.


got 2/4 nucs, 3/4 full size hives and 1/1 singles with a follower board in a queen castle. 6/9=66.6%


----------



## RayMarler

I have 2 strong nice looking hives, double story 8 frame mediums. I started with 13, all nucs in various configurations. I'm not surprised, but would have been happier with a couple more. These are no treatment, survived one winter, so will be my base for increase this year, after honey. 15% survival rate, first year all treatment free last year.


----------



## Adrian Quiney WI

17/18 survival in 5 over 5, or 5 over 5 over 5 nuc configuration (94%), and 8/12 (66%) in standard 10 frame equipment ranging from a single deep with an empty medium under it to a stack of 4 deeps. This computes to an overall survival rate of 83%.
All had a Fumigillan treatment in the fall, according to evolving opinion it is not needed!, and no chemicals for the mites; 12 of the nucs had a solid defined brood break in June as the queen got mated. When it is warm enough to get in there I am curious as to their strengths. 
5 degrees F. at the time of writing, we in the midwest are likely to lose a few more before winter turns away its chilly face.


----------



## WWW

100% survival with 6 hives, strong and heavy with stores. These hives were treated with OAV in October.


----------



## oblib

18 of 23 made it for 78%. Not too bad with all the very weak and light nucs I made up too late in the year.


----------



## cg3

16/17. 94%. My only loss (so far) was a nuc that I rushed into 10 frame equipment and was robbed out by it's strong neighbors. As mentioned earlier, it's really too early here to declare success. I've got a few that are really light and are going through candy like nobody's business.


----------



## Goat Man

6 out of 6 survived! 5 Carnie's and 1 Italian. All in 8 frame mediums stacked 2 and 3 high, no treatments. 4 had brood breaks in July/August. The other 2 had spring queens. All went into October with at least 1 super of honey stores. Dec. 1 I placed sugar cakes on them all for insurance. I hope everyone adds as many details as possible so we can learn something from this challenge..:waiting:


----------



## GLOCK

Well 12 out of 19 made it and i am happy this is my 4th year and i don't have to buy bees that was a goal and soon the games begain.
This years goal is 15 strong hives and 15 nucs by fall. The hives i lost where dinkys and 3 where mite infested i know one thing ya have to do something when it comes to mites {varroa}.


----------



## yorec

I wasn't registered for the contest - hadn't been stopping in much since I was depressed over losing both my hives last winter... that's the winter before this one.

BUT - this year both are still alive and kicking as of yesterday, so had to stop in and this looked too perfect a thread to not present my happiness at making it this far.  2 hives - both untreated and the only thing I did differently this year from last is wrap them in tarpaper. (well, I think that was the only thing) Just very happy to find them alive - Will be feeding lots of sugar to see that they stay that way.


----------



## Eddie Honey

Out of 5 big colonies and 12 nucs I lost 2 big colonies and 8 nucs leaving me with 3 bigs and 4 nucs.


----------



## Barry

Charlie B said:


> Alright everyone, the challenge is over.


Hold on there Charlie, you're a bit premature. There happens to be real estate beyond the country of California, and we're nowhere close to spring yet, so this challenge is still on. Must be real tough for you guys that don't have a winter to deal with! What a challenge! :lpf:


----------



## KQ6AR

Lost 2 of 7 for a 29% loss. 
Worst year in 3 years.


----------



## d-amick

Started with two, lost two. No treatments, all natural, all lost. This year I plan 6 to 8 hives.


----------



## squarepeg

lost 6 out of 18. one definitely mites, the others appear to be queen failure. did not treat for mites and used virtually no syrup.


----------



## Joel_T

Charlie B said:


> The winter time frame for the purposes of this challenge is October 1, 2012 to March 1, 2013.
> 
> This is an overwintering thread, not a treatment thread. You can say you're treatment free but we shouldn't have discussions about it other than that. Please don't ask if any part of what you do in beekeeping is treatment free. There are other forums for that.
> 
> Thanks!


I'd argue that. Seems it would help some assess the relevance of the varieties of "treatment."


----------



## odfrank

>Must be real tough for you guys that don't have a winter to deal with! What a challenge! :lpf:

Because we have no winter, there is no brood break and the mites have a year round season.


----------



## Barry

Point taken. Do you feel it's harder to "over winter" bees in California than areas that get snow and cold for months in a row and bees stay in cluster during that time?


----------



## odfrank

I have not had time to make the rounds and make a tally. Wife needed me for a trips to the mall, mistress had to go to the fancy new Japanese restaurant in town and also shoe shopping. Spent a few days helping sexy young blonde I met at the bee club assembling her new Lang. I don't know why at my age I spend so much time on women. Lot of bee work I have to get done.


----------



## Charlie B

WWW said:


> 100% survival with 6 hives, strong and heavy with stores.


Very nice Bill. You should have a good honey crop this year!


----------



## odfrank

>Do you feel it's harder to "over winter" bees in California than areas that get snow and cold for months

I do know that the losses right here on the peninsula have been massive since 2006. And amazingly, lots of beginners losing brand new hives from packages in brand new boxes on Ritecell foundation. So clearly this is not a comb renewal problem. And would the contaminants in the tiny bit of wax on plastic foundation contribute to the losses? And how could it be a nutrition problem? Bees in suburbia with hundreds of different types of flowers blooming year round? And a massive eucalyptus flow starting in October? We do have year around DWV and most folks are treatment free. The bees die in mass during cold, wet weather even though they can fly most afternoons and the strong ones are bringing pollen. All I can figure is that it is mite vectored viruses.


----------



## Charlie B

Barry said:


> Point taken. Do you feel it's harder to "over winter" bees in California than areas that get snow and cold for months in a row and bees stay in cluster during that time?


This is just a theory I have. I'm not an entomologist or a scientific researcher but I think because of our milder climate, we get no brood break and the mite populations don't die like they would in a much colder climate. It's interesting that the cold climate hives seem to be doing better so far or it could be that we Bay Area keeps are not that good at beekeeping!


----------



## Charlie B

Joel,

I think it's fine to say if you treat and with what. I just wanted to avoid any hijacking of this thread with heated treatment discussions.


----------



## Barry

Charlie B said:


> This is just a theory I have. I'm not an entomologist or a scientific researcher but I think because of our milder climate, we get no brood break and the mite populations don't die like they would in a much colder climate.


There's that Jarrett guy down south of you that brags about having hives with too many bees in them. More hives than he knows what to do with! Wonder what the difference is.


----------



## odfrank

Barry said:


> There's that Jarrett guy down south of you that brags about having hives with too many bees in them. More hives than he knows what to do with! Wonder what the difference is.


That's an easy one. The difference is between commercial factory farming beekeeping and hobbiest treatment free beekeeping. Kieth is in business to produce bees for pollination and packages, not to supply boutique treatment free local honey. He keeps thousands of hives where there is forage for almost none. His bees are fed like pigs at a trough and medicated regularly for mites. Our bees forage naturally and are not fed or medicated. If we exchanged a few hives with Kieth our bees would survive under his regimen and his bees would die under ours. The day we started packing our hives with Nutrabee and hosing them with miticides sprayed out of garden sprayers our bees will likely survive also.


----------



## squarepeg

no sense in beating around the bush odfrank, why not just tell it like it is?


----------



## odfrank

squarepeg said:


> no sense in beating around the bush odfrank, why not just tell it like it is?


My last name is Frank, I have a hard time living that down.


----------



## jean-marc

Well Odfrank if you think it is that easy, why not try it on some of your hives. There is a bit more to it than that, but you heading in the right direction.

Jean-Marc

Oh and a 8.2% loss on the outfit.


----------



## bevy's honeybees

No losses here. I woudn't have minded just one, as now I am already out of dark comb for bait boxes. I have 5 boxes out. But that is a different thread... 

Oh, and this is the winter I was supposed to lose hives to varroa, according to a lifetime beekeeper.


----------



## mtndewluvr

I didn't register, but I lost 1 of 2 during our first Jan cold spell. I overwintered mine in a chicken coop. After the first one died, I decided to use a heat lamp with a thermostat which turned on at around 35 deg, and off at 40 deg during our second Jan cold spell. Door to coop was shut (dark) until just today when I wrestled out the surviving hive and put them in the 51 deg sun for the first time this year. No brood or eggs (I assume because it was dark). Took video of them flying about happily and put it on my blog (http://jorgedenton.blogspot.com/). I did see the queen.


----------



## rweakley

If I am remembering properly, I started with a total of 11 and have 10 left now. The one I lost was a nuc and as with all my hives was food challenged this year due to a drought and they just didn't have the # of bees to handle some of the cold snaps. That's a little under a 10% loss rate which I guess I'll be happy with. No mite treatments going into this winter either bTW.

rod


----------



## Daniel Y

I started with 4 and am now at 5. is there a bonus for mid winter increase?


----------



## BeeGhost

Went into winter with 8 hives, lost two strong double deep ten framers. No treatments going into winter. Treated remaining hives in February with OAV. The other 6 hives had a big brood break over last summer due to no forage, only fed enough to get them through summer and then fed heavily in September.

So, I am 6 for 8.........25% loss. 

Went to see them in the almonds yesterday and man were they ever pissy!! I was greeted by a face bumper before I even got within 30 feet of the hives. Kinda weird since they are all normally docile. All heck broke loose when I popped the tops and was inserting the frame feeders, ended up having to use the cover to block half the open top so I could pour the syrup in the feeder, it was the only thing that kept them calm!! Took one sting through the sweat pants, first sting of the year and hardly any reaction, so that's good! I checked infront of the hives and didn't see activity of skunks. Did find out that the farmer had sprayed a pheromone on his crop to attract bees, maybe that's the cause?


----------



## bevy's honeybees

Daniel Y said:


> I started with 4 and am now at 5. is there a bonus for mid winter increase?


Probably not because the winner is the one with most losses. You're the biggest loser.


----------



## Stephenpbird

12 hives in summer, took some loses in autumn, bad queens. Down to 8. Winter was so warm like a heat wave until Feb, trouble is trees, birds and bees thought it was spring, a month of frost n snow has left me with no live bees. Just loads of sealed dead brood.


----------



## squarepeg

ouch, so sorry to hear that stephen. spring came a month early here last year, luckily we didn't get the killer freeze after everything bloomed.


----------



## Hawkster

Started winter with 23 hives, lost 2 so far but a couple more looking a little weaker than I like. Still have March to go.


----------



## Colleen O.

Colleen O. said:


> Glad it isn't too late to join! As of October 1st I had (still have) two hives. One NWC and one Buckfast. They are top bar and both small enough that they could be considered nucs. They are both pretty good on honey/sugar stores, maybe a little low on pollen in one, and I tried to manage pests but stay chemical free. The one that was low on pollen has a smaller cluster but is doing okay so far.


It was warm enough out today when I got home to check if they were flying and look in the observation window on the hive that has one. An inspection will have to wait for a better day, but it looks like I lost one of the two. The Buckfast hive (this was the one low on pollen) was flying and had bees busy in the hive. The NWC hive wasn't flying and I pulled out a cork that is filling an old entrance near where the cluster was and all I could see was dead bees so I am pretty sure they died out.

That gives me a 50% loss but I really won't be secure in that until I know the queen made it, is laying, and it is past April 1st rather than the March 1st of the challenge.

In December I made "candy bars" with a small percent of pollen in them and put them in the hives. In February in the waning light the last 50+ day before the temps dropped and weather hit I moved the candy bar in the Buckfast hive right next to the remaining two bars of bees because I had seen through the observation window they were really low in stores and the cluster refused to move. I didn't do the same in the NWC hive because the last inspection they had moved next to the candy. I won't know until I inspect if it played a role but it could have.


----------



## Hokie Bee Daddy

Well here is my report out. I started the winter with 6 hives and finished with 6 hives. One is very weak but looks like it will pull through. This was much better than last year when I went into the winter with 7 and finished with 3.


----------



## squarepeg

way to go hbd! did you do anything different this year?


----------



## Bear Creek Steve

I'm disappointed but not discouraged. Lost 1 out of 7 or 14%, but was going for zero loss. Better than last year though when I had 17% loss. Had two 60 deg. F days over the weekend when I inspected, tore down, and scraped all the wooden ware from the dead-out. Had fed 30# of 2:1 syrup through the Fall plus some "Ted's mush" during the early winter. Maximum V-mite in early Fall was ~5 per day on a 72 hour mite drop count. Housed in a double deep plus medium, insulated and tar paper wrapped. All Italians or degraded Italian muts. All colonies are medication free.

Postmortem: Low population (softball sized ?), honey/syrup on opposite side of occupied frames, minimal V-mites, well protected from the weather and cold. It is possible that they went queenless. Determined to get to my zero loss in 2013-14 winter.

March is the snowiest month of the year here in Colorado. Have 2 inches already today and it is still coming down.

Bear Creek Steve


----------



## Seymore

Started with 2 hives and 2 nucs in fall. Both hives are entering their 4th winter. Lost a queen in one so combined it with a nuc. It's doing great. The nuc has been converted to a standard hive. The other original hive may be on its last leg. Not much activity - but some. And still bringing in pollen. I'm figuring I may lose it. 

Final talley - lost 1 nuc.


----------



## Hokie Bee Daddy

squarepeg said:


> way to go hbd! did you do anything different this year?


Thanks squarepeg and I did. I treated for varroa mites three times last year (three different kinds of treatments) - April, late July, and late October.


----------



## Joel_T

Hokie Bee Daddy said:


> Thanks squarepeg and I did. I treated for varroa mites three times last year (three different kinds of treatments) - April, late July, and late October.


What were the 3 treatments - do you have a preference of one yet?


----------



## debtfreedave

Took 3 into winter. Came out with 3. All 3 in double deeps busting with bees. Treatment free. For me it seems harder to get through the summer and fall because of the SHB. I lost 5 hives last fall.


----------



## Hokie Bee Daddy

Joel_T said:


> What were the 3 treatments - do you have a preference of one yet?


MAQS in April, ApiStan in late July, and Oxalic acid dribble in late October. The Apistan in late July didn't do a thorough job which is why I had to do the late October treatment. I like MAQS in spring, before doing splits, because I believe it hinders the hive from swarming and cleans the hive up well for splitting. I'll look for another option for the late July treatment this year. I also liked the Oxalic acid dribble in late October. It was cheap and easy insurance going into winter.


----------



## DPBsbees

ApiStan is Fluvalinate which I understand the mites have developed resistance to over the many years it has been used. Why not get away from the "hard" chemicals and use something like Apiguard for your post flow treatment?


----------



## DRAKOS

Late summer, I had 8 hives with 10 frames of population.
On september the 4, I have made 4 walk away splits .
3 of them had a new laying queen, the other was laying workers and off.
1 more get robbed of wasps , because it was upside down (animal or bandalism) and the lid was out. 
So I went in winter with 4 hives and 6 nucs. 
But I had not feed in fall with pollen patties , because I thought there was natural pollen , and there wasn't any, so no fall brood, no winter bees, low population , big losses.
Final result . 5 overwintered hives/nucs, with 6 frames of population and 3 frames of brood now.
LESSON IS LEARNED.


----------



## Seymore

Sorry, Drakos. The upside is we don't usually tend to forget those costly lessons!


----------



## fieldsofnaturalhoney

Sorry about my delay in reporting. Went in with 15, and currently coming out of this challenge (Lord knows the winter is not over here) with 13. Lost a first year hive to starvation, although they had about nine full frames of honey in the super underneath them, should have caught this in the fall. My other lost was a second year hive that absconded, they originally came from a cutout, but their genetics will live on (time will tell if this is a good thing or not) because I made a split from them last spring. I can't believe they didn't like my accomodationsSo my lost was 13.333 percent.


----------



## cg3

Went in yesterday to check stores. It appears I'm going to lose another. Very small cluster. In the others, I'm starting to see increased population, stores low, taking candy and pollen substiyute.


----------



## Lauri

Here are two videos I took on 3-5-13 of two of my hives that are growing fast and needed to be moved into a larger hive for more space. (Colonies GROWING in Western Washington State) You can see the queens and the frame of bees and capped brood. My bees are overwintering _fantastically_. 
Every hive I check has eggs and brood, is healthy, growing and active.
A DRAMATIC difference from when I tried to over winter hives with the original queen of unknown quality and genetics that came with the nucs or packages I had purchased. My management style was the same..The only real difference now, I have my own home raised queens with proven hardy Northern genetics heading the hives.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-ID-ywOEVk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seOlamVENb8

More photos and info on facebook page. Yes, I am feeding protein patties.I started four weeks ago giving them dry Bee Pro in an outdoor feeder, when the bees started going after the bag of corn in the barn. And they all have sugar bricks weather they need them or not. Most hives are still very heavy, but they like my sugar brick recipe and like the accessibility to them-right above the cluster.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Miller-Compound-HoneyBees-and-Agriculture/256954971040510











Below you can see the space in the center between the sugar. Two weeks ago, that space held a big protein patty! Totally consumed and licked clean.











I doubled the size of the patty this time.










Give them a puff and they scadaddle down so I can apply the patty without casualties.










Here's some spare mini deep frames filled for spring feeding or mating nucs:









Here's my BeeWeaver daughter queen..overwintering very well. Original Beeweaver queen overwintered very well in 2011-2012 too.










The only hives I lost were no surprise. Most were gone by fall. Many of the nucs I bought last spring were duds. I just let them go rather than baby them and medicate them. I made the mistake of leaving the original queens with the colonies. They were huge and good looking,. They were basically the only colonies I have lost. 

I am at 63 strong colonies + five that have a queen and half frame or so of bees. Even those five are growing and have capped brood and eggs. They all just seem content. No lathargic little clusters stuck in a corner.


----------



## squarepeg

very nice lauri!


----------



## GLOCK

Lauri man you have some nice bee equipment and it sounds like you know your bee's good luck this coming year.
We are going to be in the uper 50s this sunday and i have 12 hives a hummin 4 are lite so i'm going to top off mine with sugar .
Can't wait till next month.


----------



## WWW

Nice pic's, and yes April will be a busy month for us here in this part of the country. 

cg3, I hope your very small cluster will pull through ok, the weather is looking a bit better now.

Charlie, thanks for helping all of us get through the winter by creating this thread to have something to look forward to each day, I really enjoyed it.


----------



## GLOCK

Well the bee's where flying today and it's going to be just as nice tomorro i'm going to add some honey and sugar to my lite ones {2 hives and 2 nucs}I'm going to say i ended up with 10 hives and 2 nucs i hit my goal plus 2


----------



## Charlie B

Olly, we're all waiting on your final hive count!


----------



## odfrank

Charlie B said:


> Olly, we're all waiting on your final hive count!


The math is confusing me....
Divide hives remaining by hives at onset equals percent lost?


----------



## Charlie B

Just give me before and after numbers, I'll do it for you.


----------



## odfrank

83 started 33 died - 40.24% loss

Home yard with 33 starting 19 died - 58% loss
Outyards 49 started 14 died - 28.5% loss

Sites with harshest climate had best survival rates. Outyards averaged 3 hives per yard starting. So my yard with 33 and friend's yard with 12 both had large losses, similar climate. Maybe crowding plays a roll also. Maybe I should move my trailers to the harsher climate sites in September. What date?

Did I win?


----------



## BayHighlandBees

is it numbers or is it a percentage that wins?


----------



## KQ6AR

Thanks OD,
With the exception of the two guys loosing several nucs I was the high number this year.
Mine where 28% like you're outyards, worst year in 3 years for me. Only treatment powdered sugar.


----------



## Seymore

Dan, had you previously been treating and this was the first year to go to ps?


----------



## Charlie B

BayHighlandBees said:


> is it numbers or is it a percentage that wins?


The lowest % of dead outs will win in the following categories.

*Categories as follows:*
1-5 hives (with lowest % of dead outs).
5-10 hives 
10-20 hives
20-30 hives
30-40 hives
40-50 hives
50-100 hives
Over 100 hives

Remember, nucs count as hives.


----------



## odfrank

Charlie B said:


> The lowest % of dead outs will win in the following categories.


>We'll go by number of hives lost beginning October 1, 2012 thru March 1, 2013.

This is what you said in post #1. As soon as I announce my winning loses you reverse the rules of the competition because you can't stand to see me win another of your bogus competitions. I have worked very hard all winter to make sure my bees die a slow gruesome death in order to win this contest. This is totally unfair. I am always a loser. For once i wanted to be a winner. I am leaving right now to give my daughter a ride to San Francisco and i will stop on the way back to set my annual bait hive near your house. Now may the best man win.


----------



## GLOCK

odfrank said:


> >We'll go by number of hives lost beginning October 1, 2012 thru March 1, 2013.
> 
> This is what you said in post #1. As soon as I announce my winning loses you reverse the rules of the competition because you can't stand to see me win another of your bogus competitions. I have worked very hard all winter to make sure my bees die a slow gruesome death in order to win this contest. This is totally unfair. I am always a loser. For once i wanted to be a winner. I am leaving right now to give my daughter a ride to San Francisco and i will stop on the way back to set my annual bait hive near your house. Now may the best man win.


:lpf:


----------



## KQ6AR

Charley screwed up, You can't go by the number lost a guy with 100 hives losing 10 would only be 10%. 
I think % is the only fair way to compare apples with oranges.


Hi Seymore, the strongest treatment I've ever used was honey bee healthy. Have always been chemical free by my definition.


Seymore said:


> Dan, had you previously been treating and this was the first year to go to ps?


----------



## Charlie B

odfrank said:


> >We'll go by number of hives lost beginning October 1, 2012 thru March 1, 2013.
> 
> This is what you said in post #1. As soon as I announce my winning loses you reverse the rules of the competition because you can't stand to see me win another of your bogus competitions. I have worked very hard all winter to make sure my bees die a slow gruesome death in order to win this contest. This is totally unfair. I am always a loser. For once i wanted to be a winner.


:v:


----------



## Charlie B

KQ6AR said:


> Charley screwed up, You can't go by the number lost a guy with 100 hives losing 10 would only be 10%.
> I think % is the only fair way to compare apples with oranges.


Dan, Dan, Dan, using your formula a person with one hive that makes it through the Winter has 0% loss and beats Olly. That's not right!


----------



## odfrank

Charlie B said:


> Dan, Dan, Dan, using your formula a person with one hive that makes it through the Winter has 0% lose and beats Olly. That's not right!


That person has the smallest percent loss. 0% is smaller than 10%. You can't even spell "loss". 

Here I am this afternoon, giddy with excitement after placing a bait hive one mile from your apiary. The swarm has to cross Golden Gate Park, fly up 25th Avenue, make a right and left onto 26th Avenue and into my bait hive:










Here is a hint to the location in the Sunset District in a Bonsai garden:


----------



## Charlie B

A little BeeGone in the entrance should take care of that!


----------



## CaBees

:lpf: I had 4 hives and still have 4 hives so 0% loss and I do not feed or treat.... I win!

What do I win? :applause:


----------



## KQ6AR

so if a guy with 5000 hives only lost 500 he would be the looser? In my opinion a 10% loss is very good.



Charlie B said:


> Dan, Dan, Dan, using your formula a person with one hive that makes it through the Winter has 0% loss and beats Olly. That's not right!



CaBees: don't know if you won but you beat me, Charley, & OD


----------



## odfrank

CaBees said:


> :lpf: I had 4 hives and still have 4 hives so 0% loss and I do not feed or treat.... I win!What do I win? :applause:


"We'll go by number of hives lost beginning October 1, 2012 thru March 1, 2013."

You lost big time. Your hives lived.


----------



## BayHighlandBees

od, 
how od your losses compare to the last couple of years? I know you had some pretty bad numbers a couple of years ago.


----------



## BayHighlandBees

the one nice benefit to losing all my hives is that I don't have to worry about any of OD's traps near my place. And yet while OD was up in SF, I noticed some of his 'highland girls' conducting home tours of my deadouts!


----------



## pascal

well I go feed patties last week-end and it's my worst year for long time, lost all my 8 nucs, 20 doubles on 78 and 5 singles on 18. That's give me a 32% loss. I can't believe I will win the challenge in the opposite way . 

varroa has been terrible last year and we have a little drough at the end of the summer. I should have remove the honey boxes by mid August and feed and treat immediatly, but I loose time hoping in a late bloom. Varroa take advantage of the weakness of the hives and give me a good lesson this year.

Chance for me, many of the remaining double have ten frames of bees, I will recover for my lost in the spring.

Pascal Fournier, hemmingford, Qc.


----------



## BeeGhost

Turns out I lost my weak hive while they were in the almonds. Looks like I am raising wax moths in that hive.........do they make honey?LOL Freezing all the comb as I type.

So I am down to 5 hives, but the good thing is they are doing VERY well!! Looks like I'll need to collect some swarms this year to get up to the hive count I want!

Went to make up a queenless nuc today to raise some queens but the wind was howling, so no go for me.


----------



## odfrank

BayHighlandBees said:


> od, how od your losses compare to the last couple of years? I know you had some pretty bad numbers a couple of years ago.


As there was no competition in previous years I do not have accurate data. I would guess about the same. Yards near 101 suffered the most, both in San Mateo and East Palo Alto.


----------



## Charlie B

odfrank said:


> As there was no competition in previous years I do not have accurate data. I would guess about the same. Yards near 101 suffered the most, both in San Mateo and East Palo Alto.


Where in East Palo Alto?


----------



## BeeGhost

Charlie B said:


> Where is East Palo Alto?


That's the place where all the Stanford kids get their weed and other pharmaceuticals!


----------



## odfrank

"That's the place where all the Stanford kids get their weed and other pharmaceuticals! "
One reason I hang out there too. Plus the good honey flow.

"Where is East Palo Alto?"
Charlie, as you move in on my sites as fast as you find out where they are, I will let you figure this one out all by yourself. I would love to watch you fight off the locals on your first visit, though. You "boys" from SF might have a hard time in EPA.


----------



## BeeGhost

Ollie, what does the honey taste like that comes from 40 oz bottles of Old English and Colt .45?


----------



## Charlie B

BeeGhost said:


> Ollie, what does the honey taste like that comes from 40 oz bottles of Old English and Colt .45?


:lpf:


----------



## Eyeshooter

Of my 11 hives and 7 nucs, I lost one hive to mites and 3 hives due to beekeeper's error of not strapping or weighing down the outer covers enough during a blizzard. The wind blew our windbreak into the hives shifting three of the tops enough to allow the elements into the hive. Too bad as they were all strong hives at the time. They were the last of the polystyrene hives I had. Never again...All 7 nucs made it. Apiaries are no treat with the exception of feeding 2:1 syrup in the fall to the colonies that need it.
John


----------



## BayHighlandBees

Ollie, have you noticed if your East Palo Alto honey contains any extra medicinal qualities from the local pollen / nectar?


----------



## BayHighlandBees

Down to one hive. Of the original 4 I started out with this year, 1 absconded in november. Another dwindled and died in the december freeze. The wild one remains but is awfully quiet. i split it twice in the summer and both of the splits died out (one in december, one just a week ago).

the wild swarm was a massive performer last year. I hope it can make it through these next couple of weeks.


----------

