# Nail/Staple Gun



## mbcpa (Feb 10, 2011)

Assembling frames with a hammer was a lot of fun..for the first few hundred.

I think I'm ready to graduate to a nail or staple gun. What kind do you use? Do you use nails or staples? Do you use the same fastener for the top bar as the bottom bar? What about the wedge piece?

I have a 150psi air compressor. I assume that is enough?

thanks


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## toekneepea (Jul 7, 2010)

The search function works really well. Lots of threads of this topic.

TP


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## rweakley (Jul 2, 2004)

Oh what fun is doing a search, then we don't get to argue about it again. I bought a nail/staple gun from harbor freight for 20$ and put a few hundred frames together with it and no problems as long as I had the pressure around 80 psi (I also put oil in gun before every use). I used 1/4 inch 1 1/2 crown staples everywhere, 2 at the top of the frame each side, 1 at the bottom each side. I also use titebond 2 glue. I didn't use the stapler/nailer with putting boxes together, because I didn't feel like spending the extra $$ for another size nail or staple so I just hand nailed. I did use the gun for putting together some 5 frame nucs using the doates design and WOW that was SOOOO much easier (the staples I had were plenty for this)


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## mbcpa (Feb 10, 2011)

Was it really easier to type a sarcastic reply rather than ignore my post?


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Most any 1/4" 18 gauge stapler will do the job. Budget ones can be bought quite reasonably. You should be using a minimum of 1" long staples with them and preferably gluing. In my mind the ultimate frame stapler is the 3/8" crown senco that Mann Lake sells together with a 1 1/2" long staple but they run about $300 dollars. It dosent take much of a compressor to run any of these. 150 psi may be a bit more than the manufacturer recommends to operate them at.


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## mbcpa (Feb 10, 2011)

Thanks for the replies. I don't know much about power tools. Do I want a "Narrow Crown" stapler?


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## rlsiv (Feb 26, 2011)

I use wedge-top/split bottom frames, a chinese-made brad nailer, a dab of gorilla glue at joints, and 10 (yes 10) brads per frame:
Two straight down into the top of the top bar at each end, two into the top sides of the each of the end bars (shooting into the top bar at an angle), and one straight through the joint of where the bottom of the end bars and the two (split) bottom bars intersect. 

Yes, this is probably overkill (I've never had one come apart or get wobbly, and I'm pretty sure I could stand on these) but I work on the "engineering overkill" principle.


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## toekneepea (Jul 7, 2010)

Was it easier to type a long post than a short search phrase? Seriously, a lot of posts to search through because lazy people like you can't bother to do work for themselves, but would rather others do it for them.

Tony P.


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## mbcpa (Feb 10, 2011)

toekneepea said:


> Was it easier to type a long post than a short search phrase? Seriously, a lot of posts to search through because lazy people like you can't bother to do work for themselves, but would rather others do it for them.
> 
> Tony P.


Anyone who posts a question that is covered in a previous thread is "lazy"? Ad hominem much?

You're a hoot.


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## rweakley (Jul 2, 2004)

Here is the one I use and have been happy with it.

http://www.harborfreight.com/18-gauge-2-in-1-nailerstapler-68019.html


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

I got the 3 in one gun/compressor combo from Home Depot by Porter Cable. I just use the biggest gun for everything with 1.5" brad/finish nails. Two for each corner, the bottoms can be a bit tricky but once you get your aim points down it's fast. Just be careful, sometimes they'll track out to the side and you don't want to use the gun to try to punch another one cuz it'll track through the same groove. Just manually hammer the brad back in straight. I think I set mine at 80 psi, and sometimes it'll shoot right through with grooved bottoms so you want to test and set your depth guide appropriately.


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## Greg Lowe (Feb 3, 2012)

Got this one and it works like a charm.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_149147-354-...90&Ntt=pneumatic+stapler&Ns=p_product_price|0


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## mbcpa (Feb 10, 2011)

I'll show my ignorance here...

A staple is, well, like a staple, but a brad is more like a nail? Do you use them interchangeably? 

I heard someone say that you only use the nails to hold it in place until the glue sets up. Anyone try to just use glue?


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## Michael Pawelek (Jun 4, 2012)

I've gone back over many nights and read the 100+ pages of posts on tools and hardgoods for beekeeping and some of the infomation is really dated. There are dozens of strings on brad and nail guns but some of the recommendations no longer apply. Brands go by the way side, model numbers are dropped and those who first post how great a nailer works later on find out they don't last. For example, there are a lot of recommendations for the Harbor Freight nailers but if you go to their web site there are hundreds of complaints that the brads they sell do not fit most of the brad guns. Current posts on some topics are necessary to get the correct information...
PS- No, I would not just glue a frame without brads or nails. The frames weigh a lot when filled with honey and if you ever use a extractor you want the frame to come out in one piece!


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## Huntertn (May 3, 2012)

mbcpa,
You are correct about the brad & staple. A brad is just a thinner type of nail. I use a Bostitch stapler like Greg. Which ever you choose, be sure that you can easily get the staples/brads in the size you need. I looked really quick online at the HF stapler but didn't see any staples long enough. They may have them at the local store or maybe others will fit... just something you need to find out before you buy any particular brand.

I wouldn't use just glue. Staples/brads/nails is cheap insurance.

Steve


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

http://www.homedepot.com/buy/featur...gauge-narrow-crown-finish-stapler-191324.html


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## NasalSponge (Jul 22, 2008)

Like Rwurster....


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## [email protected] (May 12, 2010)

After Asssembling 20,000 frames (using 1/4" crown staples) I found that the best way to assemble frames is by ordering them assembled. If you still want to assemble them, I would use staples and avoid brads. They are made to attach small trim details and dont have heads so will withdraw to easily. I guess glue would help, but I have never used it.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

I prefer a stapler vs. a brad nailer. I have many to choose from up to a framing nailer. The problem with a brad nailer is the head will pull through. Increasing the nail length will not help. I don't use glue and I didn't cross nail the end bars. I use a 1/4 stapler but I would prefer a 3/8 or 1/2 crown stapler because you can get longer staples.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Acebird said:


> I use a 1/4 stapler but I would prefer a 3/8 or 1/2 crown stapler because you can get longer staples.


You can get 1 1/2" legnth staples for a 1/4" crown stapler (if the gun will hold that length)......need longer than that?


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## SantaFeBeek (Jun 13, 2012)

rlsiv said:


> I use wedge-top/split bottom frames, a chinese-made brad nailer, a dab of gorilla glue at joints, and 10 (yes 10) brads per frame:
> Two straight down into the top of the top bar at each end, two into the top sides of the each of the end bars (shooting into the top bar at an angle), and one straight through the joint of where the bottom of the end bars and the two (split) bottom bars intersect.
> 
> Yes, this is probably overkill (I've never had one come apart or get wobbly, and I'm pretty sure I could stand on these) but I work on the "engineering overkill" principle.


You think that is overkill...ha! I put 20 5/8" brads into each frame with glue, 6 at each top bar/side bar connection and 4 at each bottom bar/side bar connection. I know, I know, but it works for me. Porter Cable 18-guage brad nailer that I've had for about 12 years now.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

snl said:


> You can get 1 1/2" legnth staples for a 1/4" crown stapler (if the gun will hold that length)......need longer than that?


My gun won't take 1 1/2 long


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

For the longest time I couldn't see that I'd ever need to assemble beekeeping gear with anything but nails and a hammer. But -surprise- my beekeeping has grown and so has my need to assemble woodenware so that it will be as durable as possible and takes less time to assemble.

My budget is usually tight, so I purchased the $20, 18 gauge, narrow crown stapler/nailer from Harbor Freight, and a $75, 110 psi compressor from Walmart. I've also successfully used many different staples with this stapler. Hitachi, Porter Cable, and FastenerUSA; and several different lengths of each.

When assembling frames, I use 1-1/4" long staples and insert one staple straight down through the Top Bar and into the End Bar, then two others at approximately 45 degree angles through the Top Bar and into the End Bars. Then a fourth staple is inserted through the outer side of the End Bar and into the Top Bar. That's four staples in each side to attach the Top Bars to the End Bars, with two more staples criss-crossed in similar fashion to those criss-crossed through the Top Bar and into the End Bars, inserted through the Bottom Bars and into the bottoms of the End Bars -- twelve 1-1/4" long staples for each frame. I've assembled them with and without Titebond III glue, and haven't noticed any differences between them.

This $20 stapler has performed well. The only time it jams is when I either attempt to staple into something too hard for a staple to penetrate (like a nail already inside the wood, or I fail to hold the stapler firmly in position before pulling the trigger). Either way the front easily flips open to clear the misfired staple - then back to action again. I've even started adding staples to my already assembled supers, and plan to use them for all future assemblies.


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## mbcpa (Feb 10, 2011)

Joseph,

Why? Seriously. Is it because you got tired of failures? It seems like overkill, but I'm sure you have a reason?


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

The first time I pried a frame in an upper super out of the super and the Bottom Bar and half the comb remained attached to the upper surface of the Top Bar of the frame in the super below, I determined to do what I could to reduce that occurrence. I have some O.C.D.-like tendencies which manifest themselves in sometimes going the extra mile (if possible) to reduce the repetition of unpleasant or undesirable experiences.

My O.C.D.-like tendencies are strongest when connected to things that create sticky messes, like when honey is involved.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

Joseph Clemens said:


> For the longest time I couldn't see that I'd ever need to assemble beekeeping gear with anything but nails and a hammer. But -surprise- my beekeeping has grown and so has my need to assemble woodenware so that it will be as durable as possible and takes less time to assemble.


I might add that once you get and air brad/staple gun you will find plenty of other uses for it. I never understood how handy they are until I got one. I then bought a framing nailer and have not picked up a hammer in over 3 years.


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## TRIMMAN (Apr 15, 2012)

you can buy a camble hausefield compresser that comes with a nail staple gun combo for 99.00 on sail for 55.00 i own one and it is very handy i also own 3 other compressers 5 nail guns and four compound miter saws i am a trim carp and that compresser kit will do you fine


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## TRIMMAN (Apr 15, 2012)

sorry it comes from lowes its blue


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## NasalSponge (Jul 22, 2008)

> I then bought a framing nailer and have not picked up a hammer in over 3 years.


LOL...fathers day gift!!


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## throrope (Dec 18, 2008)

I was fetching some clutter at Sears Hardware when I saw a discontinued compressor combo that included a brad nailer for $97. Didn't know what I was going to use it for, but couldn't leave it there. I don't put many frames together, but it made the job so easy. Much better than nails or screws. I like the 1" crown staples because the legs typically don't go in perfectly parallel which means they're not coming out.

You'll be surprised at how many jobs you'll find for a brad nailer. Thanks to Irene last September, that combo paid for itself by making short work of flooring under layment. I've also made near 100 bird houses with it from broken karate boards. Fun fun fun.


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## throrope (Dec 18, 2008)

Joseph Clemens said:


> I have some O.C.D.-like tendencies . . .


That, a few brews and my ADD and nothing will come apart.


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## archer5x (Mar 1, 2012)

NasalSponge said:


> Like Rwurster....


 I purchased the same model in April and it works fantastic....great quality....


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Joseph Clemens said:


> I have some O.C.D.-like tendencies which manifest themselves in sometimes going the extra mile (if possible) to reduce the repetition of unpleasant or undesirable experiences.


Part of it is the thrill of automation but you can go to the point of reduced advantage. I would say you hit it. The staple is not going to break so the pull strength is dependant on the ability of the wood to hold to the staple wire AND the strength of the wood. As you keep firing staples into small sticks you decrease the cross sectional area of the stick of wood which can make the wood itself break. I have experienced splitting by just using two staples in the top. I am sure you are getting it with all those staples. If you cross nail the end bars into the top bar a brad nailer would be better IMO because with a break out wedge you really only have one side you can nail.


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## Sour Kraut (Jun 17, 2012)

Still using hammer and nails for the top bar-to-end piece joint, but for the end piece-to-bottom bar now use a staple gun

http://www.homedepot.com/Tools-Hard...splay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&storeId=10051

Uses 9/16" staples and works for the foundation wedge too

Plus glue on all 4 corners, of course


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

The staple I insert from the outer, flat of the End Bar and into the ends of the Top Bars, if they're the kind with the Wedge Top Bar, I give them a more acute angle, so the staple goes through the End Bar and then into the heavier part of the Top Bar instead of the empty space where the wedge would be or into the wedge itself. 

Your caution about too many staple wires and not enough wood is quite valid, I've had to be very careful when shooting the staples through the tops of the End Bars and into the Top Bars at about a 42 degree angle. If I don't align the shoot just right and hold the frame and stapler very firmly in alignment prior to shooting, it is very easy to split the upper ears of the End Bars. This doesn't ruin the frames, but certainly isn't good for their finished appearance or long term durability.

My pneumatic stapler can also handle up to two inch long nails/brads, so I plan to pick up some on my next trip into town. Since I cross-nail both the Top Bars and Bottom Bars into the End Bars, two inch long brads may hold just as well, or nearly so, as 1-1/4" staples, and cost less, and with less damage to the End Bar ears.

However, even using as many staples as I do, I have less than 1 in 20 frames develop split problems. And too, most of my split problems have come from having a slightly less than optimal dado width between the top ears on my End Bars, as soon as I push the top bars into these slightly too narrow End Bars, even before shooting the first staple, one ear will crack and begin to split away from its End Bar, repairing this damage is quite problematic.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Joseph Clemens said:


> And too, most of my split problems have come from having a slightly less than optimal dado width between the top ears on my End Bars, as soon as I push the top bars into these slightly too narrow End Bars, even before shooting the first staple, one ear will crack and begin to split away from its End Bar, repairing this damage is quite problematic.


Yes, accuracy counts so I suspect that cheaper frames have more fall out but I don't know for sure. As you stated it is better this fit be loose than too tight. A square file the width of the end bar is a good investment. Actually I feel loose fits are better for bee equipment than tight fits in general because the bees will fill all cracks with propolis where ever the cracks are.


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## mbcpa (Feb 10, 2011)

Thanks for all of the replies. You've been very helpful.

I have a related question. Mann Lake sells a handy little tool for inserting the eyelets. It is "unfinished". It looks like it needs to be inserted into a screwdriver handle. Where would I find a blank screwdriver handle. Is anyone using this? How did you "finish" the tool?


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Some people use staples rather than eyelets.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

mbcpa said:


> Thanks for all of the replies. You've been very helpful.
> 
> I have a related question. Mann Lake sells a handy little tool for inserting the eyelets. It is "unfinished". It looks like it needs to be inserted into a screwdriver handle. Where would I find a blank screwdriver handle. Is anyone using this? How did you "finish" the tool?


My eyelet tool is inserted in a hole drilled into the cutoff end of a broom handle...


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## Michael Pawelek (Jun 4, 2012)

Since the wood in many frames is very soft the holes do not always come out round, are full of splinters, and I am not strong enough to push the eyelets in by hand. My eyelet tool does not have a handle so I stand the frame on end, insert eyelet with tool, and then tap home with a small hammer. I have become quite fast doing this on a hard surface and can do the 4 eyelets per frame in less than 30 seconds.


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## SantaFeBeek (Jun 13, 2012)

My eyelet tool is from dadant, so I don't know if they are the same, but I put all eyelets in the frame sides prior to assembling the frames. Like MP said, insert with tool and a couple of taps with a small hammer and they are set.


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## bwdenen (Feb 3, 2012)

mbcpa said:


> Mann Lake sells a handy little tool for inserting the eyelets. It is "unfinished". It looks like it needs to be inserted into a screwdriver handle. Where would I find a blank screwdriver handle. Is anyone using this? How did you "finish" the tool?


I picked up a wooden handle from Home Depot made for a small file. Works like a charm


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