# How many hives to get into queen rearing



## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

You can start queen rearing with only one hive. Are you set on any particular method that you would like to mention, so the experts can better advise you?


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

You will need the amount of hives it will take to use as resources for a cell builder, and the mating nuc numbers that you'll need for each round of queen cells you make. Having a good drone mother colony in the yard is a good idea as well. The queen mother to raise cells from can be your best honey production hive in the yard. You have 15 hives now and that should be plenty enough to start queen rearing with a few honey production hives as well.


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## AAIndigo (Jun 14, 2015)

15 full size hives? That will get you going but you will need to start building/buying boxes. I would build/buy 4 frame double resource hives. http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/Resource-Hive/productinfo/432/

I run these along with 10 frame full size hives. I have 4 frame queen castles with removal dividers. I place Qcells in the 4 slots and move them to another yard into 2 wide resource hives when they start laying. Once removed I start another round. I remove 2 dividers at the end of the year and overwinter as 2 wide nuc.

Resource hives are great for building up resources


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## Stephenpbird (May 22, 2011)

If you haven't got/read Contemporary Queen Rearing by Harry Laidlaw then you should. It will give you a very good overview on what Queen rearing intails.


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

Have reared quite a few queens. It's as simple as moving frames to another box but you have to move the right frames and be able to identify the queen and put her into the correct box. 

Again, it's as simple as not ever killing/removing a queen cell.


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

I hate to disagree with Ruthiesbees, but 15 is a good start. With less than 6 hives, you won't have the resources to make a batch of *HIGH QUALITY QUEENS*. 

The other hives need to be strong enough to donate frames to support the queen rearing operation. With only 6 hives, you could make a very strong 6-frame, ventilated, queenless nucleus cell builder box for raising about 15 queens at a time (see David LaFerney's posts about his "a few queens all season long" system).

With 15 strong colonies, you could make a full-blown Michael Palmer - style "Bee Bomb" cell raiser colony. There are large colonies supplemented with 8 to 10 frames of capped brood from other colonies. He describes in his "My Cell Building Methods" thread in the "sticky note" section at the top of the "The Queen and Bee Breeding" section. Read it.

With 15 colonies, you'll probably have enough resources (= frames & bees) to run only one or two cycles of "Bee Bomb" cell builder colonies, so if you're not experienced at grafting, use a simple guaranteed method like Miller's, Mel Disselkoen's method, or Cut Cell. You could make as many as 30 or 40 queen cells per run with Michael Palmer's "Bee Bomb" colonies. Figure out how many nuc's you can build from *ONE THIRD* of the bees you have, and "dry run" that in your head or on paper before proceeding.

Build your nuc's ahead of time, and get cardboard boxes if you intend to sell them. I wouldn't sell any yet. You'll want more colonies for next year's operation. Making queens gets easier above 50 colonies.


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## Briarvalleyapiaries (Feb 26, 2015)

I just want 10-20 queens for my own use in splitting and overwhintering nucs for my own use. I plan to use the method of grafting. What I ment by is fifteen hives enough to start queen raising is is fifteen hives enough to get inbreeding that you would get if you make queens with only two or three hives.


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

Yes, you should do fine with the 15 hives. To help even better, restrict drone brood in the hives you are raising the queens from, and put drone combs in a couple of good hives that you will not be raising queen daughters from. There probably are other hives in your area to contribute to the drones in local DCA's also. I think your worry is most likely unfounded. Go for it, raise your own queens, it's the most interesting part of bee keeping.


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## msl (Sep 6, 2016)

inbreading should not be a issue, but I would not stake my whole apiary on one blood line 

there are all sorts of people that tell you "cant" do it this way or "half to" do it that way, 

if all you want is 10-20 queens I would say set your self up to learn with the least resources needed so you risk little and can try different ways out, with out stressing over mistakes 
I would take a hive and MB it- pull the queen and put her in a nuc, the hive will raze cells,make a mateing nuc out of every frame with cells When the nucs build up pull the queens and the nuc will raze a new one its more about the bees per SI of comb or per cell then total number in the hive, http://www.bushfarms.com/beesafewgoodqueens.htm 

with the MB method you could easly excede the low end of you gole starting with one hive, but you said you wanted to graft, so on to step 2 I my self would use it as a chance to try diffrent methods to see what works for me
Now that you have mateing nucs made up and running, set up a 5 frame nuc as a Joseph Clemens Starter Finisher http://doorgarden.com/2011/11/07/simple-honey-bee-queen-rearing-for-beginners/
this will let you try your hand at grafting, cut and hanging strips of comb, putting in a frame that has been notched, cell punch, or just tossing in a frame with eggs/larve, and get a feel for cuting and transferring cells, etc and have risked very little resources, there is no need for a MP bee bomb cellbuilder, given the top end of your gole can easly be handled in a few cycle in the nuc (again is more about bee per SI then total) and if you botch a round of grafting or 2, or life happens and your late moveing cells and a virgin hatches and kills the outher cells, or any of the 100s of outher ways bees will teach you a lesson, your not wasting all those resources that could be better used elce were in the yard

Now you have 1st hand experience with what works in your area and your style and skill set and what doen't, and have a good feel for the amount of wood work and resorces it will take to hit your next gole.......and if you don't, you haven't lost much


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

Briar - if your just raising these for yourself - why go through the trouble of grafting ETC - Just make splits from all 15 of your hives - And let the bees do what they do. If you want to make in the yard splits - split off the old queens into new boxes and set them where you want - if the bees being split are good enough to make another split - make one, make sure it has a frame of eggs, move it at least 2 miles so the old field bees stay with the split and guide the nurse bees on what to do next - and after they get a queen and she's mated - move them where ever you want them. I do 300 this way every spring. Never have to graft. Need extra cells? There's always extras in the splits and original hives that are missing there queens (the ones you split off)
Do this and you'll do fine - tried and true for over 35 years
SAK


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

double


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## Colobee (May 15, 2014)

Or maybe leave 5 as "production hives" to help cover your expenses, and make 2 splits out of each of the remaining 10. Figure on 50% overall success (mated & laying), and you shouldn't be too disappointed, and maybe pleasantly surprised.

Good luck!


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## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

Briarvalleyapiaries said:


> What is the minimum number of hives I should have to get started in queen rearing?


The first question to ask, how many queens do you want to raise ? If the answer is a thousand, then with a 15 colony start, it's not likely to happen. OTOH, if the answer is 25, then you have more than enough resources to manage that.


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## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

Well one hive is enough to make about 25 queen cells at a time, but you will need much more resources to make nucs for each one of those queen cells. I have Carni stock and they grow fast in the spring, as soon as they show any sign of swarm cells the queens come out and are put into nucs with a couple of frames of brood. Into that hive goes 22 grafts from a breeder queen and 10 days later the cells are removed and put into mating nucs the original hive can be used again for more grafts or 1 of the cells can be pressed into a brood frame and left to re queen that colony. So every year I make up a nuc for every hive that shows signs of swarming, make up a bunch of mating nucs and make some honey too.
Johno


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## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

johno said:


> Well one hive is enough to make about 25 queen cells at a time, but you will need much more resources to make nucs for each one of those queen cells.


You dont have to do them all at once, 6 mating nucs is enough to deal with 2 dozen cells over a season. I think that's a mistake a lot of folks make, trying to do to many, to quickly. I've got a couple 4 way setups, and plan on using a half dozen or so 5 framers as well. Between them, I'll plant 50 or so cells over the summer, but, they wont be all at once. It'll be 8 one week, then 6 the next, etc.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

I have been grafting cells onto the pollen frames to make nucs out of them once
the queens are mated. This will take the most minimal hive resources possible while
supplying you with plenty of good queens. Be sure to make 2x more queen cells than what
you will need. Some virgins will be MIA on their mating flights. Whatever you do make sure that
a system is set up so you will not be overwhelmed by the entire process. Go get a cheap $20 dollars
cell cage where the queen can lay directly into the plastic cells to harvest the eggs. That way you don't have to graft unless you enjoy this process. I have to admit that I don't like grafting because it is just too time consuming.


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## BadBeeKeeper (Jan 24, 2015)

grozzie2 said:


> You dont have to do them all at once, 6 mating nucs is enough to deal with 2 dozen cells over a season. I think that's a mistake a lot of folks make, trying to do to many, to quickly.


Good advice. You don't need a lot, if you don't need a lot of queens. I started making my own queens with only four hives. I currently only have six nucs that I use.

In an experiment I did this Summer (a long shot to maintain an original queen line) I stacked four deeps and let the queen go wild- she laid in all four boxes and then I split them off. It worked a charm.

I do everything in the same yard, nothing gets moved more than 100 yards.

I can't graft because trying to do close work like that gives me optic migraines and my vision goes blurred/blocky after just a minute or two, so I have to use splitting methods or let swarm cells occur and remove them to nucs.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

BadBeeKeeper said:


> I can't graft because trying to do close work like that gives me optic migraines and my vision goes blurred/blocky after just a minute or two, so I have to use splitting methods or let swarm cells occur and remove them to nucs.



We now have the removable plastic cups laying cage where the queen is confined inside a small plastic cage
for a few days to lay. Perhaps you can get one or make your own design.


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

Bad bee - look up old timers cut the comb method if you can't graft


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## msl (Sep 6, 2016)

I like old timer's take on it, but to me it feels like a lot of extra steps and trips back and forth if you have your mating nucs and genetic source hive in the same yard 
I cut the strip the size of the bar hold and in place with some wraps of fishing line. Allows me to do it fast and with out leaving the yard
http://www.biobees.com/library/general_beekeeping/queen_raising_breeding/queen_rearing_topbar.pdf


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

Briarvalley -

To answer your question in post #8, you will likely have better genetic diversity with 15 colonies than with 2 or 3 colonies. If you are open-mating them, much will depend on how many feral or neighboring kept bees are withing mating distance of your yard. 

With 3 colonies and ZERO feral bees in the neighborhood, you'll see some inbreeding in the 3rd generation for certain.

Still yet, you could buy a few queens every year or every other year from different breeders in different states, paying attention to bloodlines. That will assure at least some out-crossed vigor. I assume almost every good breeder does this every year after they have established the stock they are after - you know the routine - select, breed, out-cross, select, etc.


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