# SHB Control - Illegal Substances



## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

It is well known that some beekeepers use off label substances in their hives (i.e Taktic, Mavrik)

Do any members have "beekeeper friends" that use illegal substances to control SHB? If so, what do their "friends" use?


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## MikeJ (Jan 1, 2009)

:scratch:  inch: 

opcorn:


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## psm1212 (Feb 9, 2016)

Advion Syngenta Gel. It's roach poison and I do not use it nor have I ever purchased any. However, I know that many beekeepers in heavily infested SHB areas will put a few small drops into a beetle blaster trap and insert the trap in the hive. They maintain that the SHB never make it out of the trap, therefore, no contamination. I maintain that that is wishful thinking and they have no way of knowing whether the poison remains in the trap or is spread throughout the hive.


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## GSkip (Dec 28, 2014)

I would think if the practice of using illegal substances in the hive was wide spread some bulk purchasers would have discovered it in a lab test by now and we all would know about it. Is it illegal because it's not been approved by the government or because it has found to contaminate honey?


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

GSkip said:


> Is it illegal because it's not been approved by the government or because it has found to contaminate honey?


Maybe not approved in the US but is in Australia….in hive. I read the studies a couple of years ago and I believe that they were allowing it in the hives with honey supers on. No detected contamination. Also…it was extremely effective in eliminating the shb. 

I’m not recommending it….I’m just reporting.

https://www.apithor.com.au/how_apithor_works.html


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## [email protected] (Aug 1, 2004)

A similar product is used/available in the US. I understand it is very inexpensive, less than $.25 each, but have no idea where it can be purchased. I have seen it used in hives in an area heavily infested by SHB in the southern states, and no SHB were seen in several hives that I inspected. If you are 'trusted' by a commercial beekeeper in one of the southern states I am sure you can get samples or even pick up a 'source' for the product.


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## psm1212 (Feb 9, 2016)

I haven't seen that product beemandan. That is interesting. Looks like the active ingredient is fipronil. I think Advion uses indoxacarb.

I am not ready to take that step. But maybe the Apithor folks will get it tested and approved for use in the USA.


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## texanbelchers (Aug 4, 2014)

I've been tempted to setup a bait box for SHB. Screen the entrance with 1/8" cloth so the bees don't get exposed. I could donate old comb with pollen and some honey, lace it with something nasty for the SHB. I'd just want to keep the little buggers in somehow so they don't take it out of the box.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

psm1212 said:


> But maybe the Apithor folks will get it tested and approved for use in the USA.


I like the part where they say that it reduced the number of shb by 100%.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

texanbelchers said:


> I've been tempted to setup a bait box for SHB.


Why not buy a trap already designed for shb? 
For example: https://gabees.com/product/m90d-beetle-barn/
I mean....it's $1.50. Why reinvent the wheel?


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## psm1212 (Feb 9, 2016)

beemandan said:


> I like the part where they say that it reduced the number of shb by 100%.


Yeah. Sounds nice, doesn't it?


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## photobiker (Mar 23, 2015)

texanbelchers, you could use a one liter soda bottle with the tapered top cut off and a funnel with a very small end inserted, so they can't find their way out, into the bottle and then cover the opening with #8 wire. Of course you would put the comb in first and have to paint or cover the outside with something black for that in the hive effect. Now you could do the same thing without the chemicals and place it in the freezer once you get a good population of SHB.


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## MikeJ (Jan 1, 2009)

Very simple -
If a poison is repeatedly placed in close proximity to honey - it will contaminate one day, just a matter or time.
Not only will the beekeeper be responsible for poison contaminated honey if it is legal - - if the poison is illegal the penalty is much greater (we are talking man slaughter, negligent homicide, etc..).

Please remember if you are selling/sharing any product out of your hive - you are responsible making sure the products are not going to harm others - - this isn't just a legal issue, it should be a conscious issue.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

MikeJ said:


> (we are talking man slaughter, negligent homicide, etc..)


I haven’t seen anyone recommending that these compounds be used. The Apithor that I linked is approved on Australia and can be used there even with honey supers on. The measured fipronil contamination was less than 1ppb.
Do you have a cat or dog? Do you use products like Frontline to treat for fleas? If so, you are exposing everyone in your household to much higher levels of fipronil. 
Manslaughter….negligent homicide? Seriously?


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## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

If that Apithor had to go through this federal pay to play bureaucracy It would not sell for 25 cents each but we would be lucky if we paid $2,50 each. We have to face the fact that we are really on our own here.
Johno


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## MikeJ (Jan 1, 2009)

beemandan said:


> ...
> Do you have a cat or dog? Do you use products like Frontline to treat for fleas? If so, you are exposing everyone in your household to much higher levels of fipronil.
> Manslaughter….negligent homicide? Seriously?


Those items are for those purposes and applied according to directions.
If I put such on food, or negligently contaminate food with it - yep, I am in danger of this if something happens.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

MikeJ said:


> Those items are for those purposes and applied according to directions.


If I read this correctly…you are ok with contamination/exposure if the product is legally applied. Got it.


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## MikeJ (Jan 1, 2009)

beemandan said:


> I haven’t seen anyone recommending that these compounds be used. The Apithor that I linked is approved on Australia and can be used there even with honey supers on. The measured fipronil contamination was less than 1ppb.
> Do you have a cat or dog? Do you use products like Frontline to treat for fleas? If so, you are exposing everyone in your household to much higher levels of fipronil.
> Manslaughter….negligent homicide? Seriously?





MikeJ said:


> Those items are for those purposes and applied according to directions.
> If I put such on food, or negligently contaminate food with it - yep, I am in danger of this if something happens.





beemandan said:


> If I read this correctly…you are ok with contamination/exposure if the product is legally applied. Got it.


:scratch:


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## wdcrkapry205 (Feb 11, 2010)

beemandan said:


> Why not buy a trap already designed for shb?
> For example: https://gabees.com/product/m90d-beetle-barn/
> I mean....it's $1.50. Why reinvent the wheel?


Very labor intensive, the bees immediately begin propolizing he entrances; so I'm told......


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

wdcrkapry205 said:


> Very labor intensive, the bees immediately begin propolizing he entrances; so I'm told......


You could cover / surround it with #8 hardware cloth to keep the bees away but the SHB can readily pass thru.


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