# New TBH - swarm building comb on the outside?



## beanereater (Jun 16, 2011)

A swarm of bees landed on my new top bar hive the other day and quickly built a hand-sized comb, but it was attached to the roof panel on the outside of the hive. Then they left and were apparently still trying to decide where to live over the last 2 days - attic, shed, or my hive. Several swarms back and forth and some Great Stuff expanding foam persuading them to stay out of the attic and now they are back at the hive. All day today they have been gathered all over the outside of the hive. Some few bees are going in and out of the entrances, but just a few. Now it's dark and the bees are still on the outside, very calmly hanging there.

Are these bees still swarming? Can I do anything to encourage them to get into the hive? Should I cut off their comb? Put it inside? Are they still calm? (I've only captured a swarm once before. It left the hive after a few hours.) 

My hive was built to proper top bar specs, with beeswax covered guide sticks on the top bars. The only dimension that differs is the length due to the scrap boards I had available. My hive is closer to 3' long rather than the recommended 4'. Could that be a big problem?

Thanks for helping out a bee newbie. Here's a pic of the hive: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/37/topbarhive.jpg


----------



## JakeDatc (Apr 19, 2010)

You could put the comb inside and hope it draws them in. could also open the top and pull a few bars out then brush/scoop them nicely inside and see if they will stay. 

have fun.. free bees is a good deal


----------



## Jeff Da Ref (Apr 5, 2011)

If you don't have bee's wax on your top bars, it is harder to persuade the bees to stay. I believe they just aren't sure where to start building comb. 

Add a touch of honey or syrup inside is another option.

Lemon Grass oil put inside may also help you. 

As a last resort, sweep them into a bucket, dump em in inside, put the bars and follower board together. This will force them to at least use the entrance.

Good luck,

jdr


----------



## Bush_84 (Jan 9, 2011)

You could essentially treat this as a package at this point. If I were you I would shake/brush/toss/do whatever you need to do to get them inside the hive. I would also move that comb and put it inside. I would then find a way to put a queen excluder over the entrance for a few days.


----------



## SteveBee (Jul 15, 2010)

I agree. I would brush them off and get them inside.


----------



## beanereater (Jun 16, 2011)

If I try to get these guys inside, how much angry stinging should I expect? I've handled a swarm before wearing just a long sleeve shirt, a mosquito headnet, and gloves. Since these bees aren't swarming, I'm assuming they'll be more defensive. Right? 

Should I just cut the comb off and lay it in the bottom of the TBH, or try to rubber band it or something along a top bar?

I can use a little smoke. Would spraying them with sugar water calm them down more?

Any chance these bees will decide to go into the hive on their own if it rains (or the sprinklers run on them a bit)?


----------



## JakeDatc (Apr 19, 2010)

suit up like you have been.. they will be a lot of flying around but hopefully not too much actual attacking. but best be on the safe side. 

you could try to wire/string/pipe cleaner it to one of the bars. if it doesn't seem to want to stay on for some reason forget it and just put it on the bottom for now. 

no smoke or water.. just scoop them off the sides into the hive. neither smoke or water will help. 

don't spray them with a sprinkler.. just put them inside and they will go inside. wait a half hour and if the queen is inside then most everyone will be inside.


----------



## tommyt (Aug 7, 2010)

If your worried about them and you 
take a gallon water jug cut to make it a scoop
Sugar spray lightly then scoop and poor in top bar
You may want to put a feeder inside the hive box 
as far away from the entrance as possible

I also would like to know the size of your entrance, 
it maybe to small for them 
maybe try taking 1 bar off and let them use it as an entrance

Tommyt


----------



## beanereater (Jun 16, 2011)

I suited up and did the deed about 30 minutes ago. I waited until dusk so they'd be calmer (right?). Turns out they had 3 big (8-12") combs and 3 much smaller ones started, all on the roof panel. I removed it, removed a few top bars and pulled the big combs out and put them on the bottom of the hive. Didn't try to hook them onto the bars. Scooped some more bees in there and put the bars back on, trying not to squish many bees. Got the top bars all back together, then realized that quite a few bees where still left on the side outside. Maybe 1/3 of them, and a little bit of comb. 

Hopefully the queen stays with the comb and she made it inside.

I thought I wasn't getting stung at all, but it turns out my gloves were covered in honey and about 50 bee stingers. I guess I love my leather gloves because I didn't feel a thing.

My three hive entrances holes are 5/8". Bees can certainly move in and out.

Right now about 1/3 of the bees are still outside tending what's left of the comb. Others are very active in and around the entrances. The roof panel still had many bees on it, so I left it off, propped up sideways. I figure they won't make more comb at that angle.

See what happens tomorrow... Thanks for all the advice!


----------



## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

>I waited until dusk so they'd be calmer (right?).

No, work bees during the day.


----------



## JakeDatc (Apr 19, 2010)

Well, if you got the queen in your scooping they will all move in there pretty quick. With combs that big i'd make an effort tomorrow to tie them to a few bars.. they will attach it better themselves if you give them a head start.


----------



## Bush_84 (Jan 9, 2011)

They will also build combs straighter if given the idea of which direction you want them to go.


----------



## beanereater (Jun 16, 2011)

Well, the combs broke up pretty badly when I moved them using the "grab gently and pull" method. I don't think they're salvageable (maybe some pieces could be). What will happen to those chunks of comb? Will I need to remove them sooner or later?

My top bars do have 1/4" wood sticks (large bottle rocket stems) nailed down the centers with beeswax melted down the whole length. Hopefully that will be enough to get new combs going right.

I checked the hive again a couple hours after operation Scoop & Shake took place. Far fewer bees outside and a big cluster around the entrances. Looks promising.


----------



## Bush_84 (Jan 9, 2011)

Even if you can scrunch a little bit of comb on a top bar that would be a good thing. 

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/10/dscn1731y.jpg/

I found that on one of my combs. Was pretty small and fragile, but I took it and smushed it onto a top bar. They repaired it and are expanding upon it. If you have anything to give the bees a guide to build their comb I would use it. Even if the comb looks all messed up I would do my best to put it to use.

I would also remove all traces of comb from the outside. You do not want to encourage them to be building out there. If they have any honey stored there that'd be a recipe for robbing!


----------



## beanereater (Jun 16, 2011)

10 a.m. this morning I checked them and they're swarming out of the hive. The swarm is in the tree right next to the hive and bees are still pouring out. I guess I pissed them off too much.

If and when they leave completely I will go in and attach some comb to a bar in case this swarm or another comes back again. I guess the chances of that are pretty good with all that honey and comb smell in there now.

I made short movie, but apparently I can't upload that as an attachment.


----------



## beanereater (Jun 16, 2011)

10:30 a.m. Bees are out. Swarm is still on tree nearby.

I cleaned the broken combs out of the hive. They had build two thumb-sized bits of comb on the top bars nearest the entrance since I'd moved them in. Then I also took three small pieces of the big combs and smooshed them onto the centers of some other top bars. Smeared some lemongrass leaves around entrance holes for good measure. Scraped away as much comb wax as I could off the outside where they originally built.

Hopefully this swarm will return (they did once before already), but if not, at least the hive should be as ready as possible for the next swarm looking for a home.

Pics of the comb they made and the ones I attached:


----------



## beanereater (Jun 16, 2011)

Pic of the combs I had moved in:


----------



## JakeDatc (Apr 19, 2010)

Are they in a tree you can reach? if so take the branch and shake it hard into a bucket.. then dump the bucket into the hive. that will have a good chance of getting the queen. I'm guessing you didn't get her last night so they moved back out. 

If it is higher in a tree.. if you are handy you could build one of the stick/water jug capture devices 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FAiOB9MzIY


----------



## blist (Jun 15, 2010)

JakeDatc said:


> Are they in a tree you can reach? if so take the branch and shake it hard into a bucket.. then dump the bucket into the hive. that will have a good chance of getting the queen. I'm guessing you didn't get her last night so they moved back out.
> 
> If it is higher in a tree.. if you are handy you could build one of the stick/water jug capture devices
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FAiOB9MzIY


that is a really cool bee bucket!


----------



## JakeDatc (Apr 19, 2010)

blist said:


> that is a really cool bee bucket!


yea... he posted plans on how to make it on beesource somewhere.. i couldn't find it to post also though  my search-fu was failing me


----------



## tommyt (Aug 7, 2010)

You can take those pieces of comb and make them work with Large whole chicken wire
Staple the wire on one side put the comb up as close as you can to the top of the bar 
fold wire over and staple 
In a week or so they will have it attached you can then remove the wire 
If you are not comfortable with removal of wire or don't get back into the hive
before they build comb all entwined in the wire,there is still hope
Its will be a brood comb so it won't matter 
when the hive is established you can remove and replace the wire frames
by putting them in the rear of the hive when the brood hatches out take the bar
out use it for bait traps

Good luck hope you can get them back 

Tommyt


----------



## beanereater (Jun 16, 2011)

The bees left. I'm pretty sure I had the queen in the TBH since the morning after the comb transplant there were no bees anywhere nearby except in the hive and right at the entrance. 

Bees are not obedient livestock.


----------



## JakeDatc (Apr 19, 2010)

ah well.. now you have a comb and lemongrass baited swarm trap. maybe another group will stop by.


----------



## steventerry11 (Jun 7, 2011)

I had this same problem last week. I wish I would've seen this earlier to tell you what worked for me. I made a home made queen excluder by doubling up some 1/2 inch hardware cloth (wire mesh) and off setting to leave 1/8 size holes and stapled it over the entrances. So far so good. I caught two swarms this year. One took to my tbh great.. My next swarm just seemed and seems kind of stupid.. they just don't seem to know where to build the comb, they seem to be from a langstroth hive and don't seem to understand how a top bar hive works (I think they are trying to build on the sides right now). They had set up shop hanging from the bottom of my hive and wouldn't stay inside (I recaptured them twice). Well good luck next time!


----------

