# Why so hard to find vendors of packaged bees?



## louborges (May 16, 2009)

I started beekeeping this year and was lucky enough to find a vendor still excepting orders in March of this year. I called several vendors from the list provided by Dadant on their website and only Koehnen had some available. The package arrived in good shape and they did well this season. I'm looking to buy a few more packages and started calling vendors from all over the country and find that many no longer offer package for sale and if they do they don't ship. I'm know there are vendors in California that I could buy from but my question is why are some vendors getting out of the business? Is it that the market for packaged bees is shrinking or is it too hard of a business to maintain? Just wondering if anyone has any insight into this.


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## charmd2 (May 25, 2008)

I"m guessing alot of it has to do with shipping issues. It doesn't take to many ups, usps, or fed ex mess ups to cost a packager a lot of money.


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## ACBEES (Mar 13, 2009)

read about what happened to Cedar Glenn Apiaries. Apparently they lost a whole shipment of packaged bees handled by UPS. Tests on the dead bees at a UPS terminal showed they were positive for pesticides. Cedar Glenn says it cost them a fortune to replace the bees for their customers and UPS is taking no responsibility in the matter. The bees were alive and healthy when they left the apiary. Thus Cedar Glenn is no longer shipping bees.


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## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

Another factor can be that honey prices are up and colony loss is up. Some package producers are filling their own empty boxes and others already had large orders to fill other beeks empty boxes.


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## mythomane (Feb 18, 2009)

There are many local beeks in your area. Why not pick up a nuc from one of them?


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## Hambone (Mar 17, 2008)

I think it has to do with the shipping. Fedex was flying the packages for USPS. Which they are no longer doing. (I think)


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## louborges (May 16, 2009)

Yes, buying local is best but not all breeds are available. I was just curious why so many vendors are getting out of the business of shipping packages of bees. No money in it or just too much trouble?


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

If you pick up a copy of the American Bee Journal or Bee Culture after the first of the year you'll likely find a good number advertising. Many are still in business. There are, as has been stated already in this thread, surely some shipping issues, particularly when the distances from the supplier are big. Many I've seen will only ship USPS (Post office) and then only to a limited number of zones. Fear not....they're still out there.


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## Matt Guyrd (Nov 28, 2007)

louborges said:


> Yes, buying local is best but not all breeds are available. I was just curious why so many vendors are getting out of the business of shipping packages of bees. No money in it or just too much trouble?


An alternative might be to buy local bees, then purchase a mated queen from the breeder that has the type of queen genetics you prefer. Might be easier to find a queen you want than it would be to find a package.

Just a thought.

Matt


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## SwedeBee1970 (Oct 26, 2008)

Local would be best, if available. Not only that, you could find a mentor with a world of knowledge.

My local bees are Italians. They're about 5 miles down the road. Just out of range with my Russians. That's the way, uh huh uh huh, I like it. 

Not only when I order package bees, I must do so in November to get on a first come first serve schedule for next May. Don't ask why he does that, I don't know nor do I wish to hear. USPS, they ship. Expedited shipping and I'll call the post office and have them ring me at 6:00am when they get there.

I wouldn't trust anyone else to ship that kind of package. It's in your best interest to get to know your post office officials, believe me. 

Why would any apiaries sell package bees in March ?


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## mythomane (Feb 18, 2009)

Saw you ordered from Koehnen. Good choice, but they may not be best for your area. Lived in Santa Fe for many years. I am sure they produced well for you this summer, but in the long run they may not fair as well. I advise getting some bees or queens from Les Crowder if you can pry them from him. He hasn't worried about Varroa in over a decade. As far as fewer package producers, there are still many in business. As far as why people are dropping out: Shipping bees is just a pain. Others will take their place. As a beginner, nucs are the way to go anyway. Do you subscribe to a bee journal? There are many suppliers there. Stick with local and feral, and you will be better off in the long run.


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## louborges (May 16, 2009)

I asked one vendor why he no longer ships package bees and his reply was:

Different reasons. So many problems with bees some people are just getting out period. My reason is the post office is getting very hard to deal with and they don't handle the packages very well, too many were dead on arrival.


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## Brenda (Nov 23, 2006)

SwedeBee1970 said:


> My local bees are Italians. They're about 5 miles down the road. Just out of range with my Russians. That's the way, uh huh uh huh, I like it.


Doesn't 5 miles still give you an area of overlap? If bees fly up to 3 miles out, your bees fly 3 and his fly 3 they should overlap.
I always heard they fly from 3 to 5 miles out.


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## SwedeBee1970 (Oct 26, 2008)

Maybe it's six miles and there is a feud at the Confederate/Union line. Why would they bother feuding when there's plenty to forage ? One of my queens doesn't have wings, the other was a superseded queen.


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## louborges (May 16, 2009)

Come on guys, this thread is about shipping packages of bees.


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## Hambone (Mar 17, 2008)

louborges said:


> Come on guys, this thread is about shipping packages of bees.


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## fat/beeman (Aug 23, 2002)

hello
I have had many nightmares with UPS so when I do ship queens I use post office at least when they take your money for insurance if lost or damaged they pay. UPS killed 20 my nuc's being shipped out west. after going down there to make a claim, they said read the fine print no live delivery's. so how does one stay in this line of work when the shipper kills your bees????
as far as packages I do its pick up only and have never had a problem with that.


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## SwedeBee1970 (Oct 26, 2008)

Can't beat the good old fashioned Post Office. "Live" anything must be difficult to transport anywhere. Look at all the preparation involved. Local keepers selling packaged bees are few and far between these days. Being hit with the economic conditions and CCD has literally put them out of buzz-i-ness. Can a residential beek file for unemployment and can they prove it is the question.......


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## Grant (Jun 12, 2004)

Buying packages is the traditional way of expanding. I think the hassles and the hardships are prompting the astute beekeeper to make their own splits, raising their own queens when the season is appropriate.

This is a movement to be sustainable, or at least less dependent upon someone else (including the Postal authorities), and a movement to be more self-sufficient. To use an old cliche, it's a shifting paradigm. 

For me, the "appropriate" season is the previous summer as I cannot raise early spring queens. I split in the summer, requeen with my locally-adapted stock to bring "large" nucs through the winter in ten-frame singles. It also means I am forced to find alternative methods of swarm control rather than the conventional spring splitting.

Grant
Jackson, MO


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## FindlayBee (Aug 2, 2009)

I am in Ohio. I have at least two apiaries within 65 miles that sell packaged bees. However, one gets his from Georgia and trucks them in himself. The other gets his from California and has them delivered.

I got lucky (at least I feel that way) in that I was able to pre order my package(s) now for March 31, 2010 pickup at the one within 30 miles. It might be a bit cool yet, but I have plans to deal with that. It may or may not work out.

Check around your area in the phone book and via the web. I found both doing web searches for bees in and around my town.


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## shadetreebeeman (Dec 4, 2009)

Did you find local bees or early out of state bees?


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## FindlayBee (Aug 2, 2009)

They are out of state bees being trucked in. If you want more information, I can pm you the apiary's information.


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## SwedeBee1970 (Oct 26, 2008)

Maybe if your bees are registered with the state you live in, they can tell you where all the apiaries are within those boundaries and even national too.


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## FindlayBee (Aug 2, 2009)

The bees I found are from GA.


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## Hambone (Mar 17, 2008)

Did you try Waldo? Not sure if his are trucked in or not. I think he shakes his own. I bought a package from him a couple years ago.


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## FindlayBee (Aug 2, 2009)

I thought about going to Waldo. However, Parson's is much closer (about 30 miles) and the cost is lower. Will have to feed heavily to get them going, but I figure that is part of the experience.


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## Hambone (Mar 17, 2008)

That's cool. Will these bee your first bees that your getting?


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## NDnewbeek (Jul 4, 2008)

Hambone,

How were the bees from Waldo? I am considering ordering from him.


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## Bens-Bees (Sep 18, 2008)

ACBEES said:


> read about what happened to Cedar Glenn Apiaries. Apparently they lost a whole shipment of packaged bees handled by UPS. Tests on the dead bees at a UPS terminal showed they were positive for pesticides. Cedar Glenn says it cost them a fortune to replace the bees for their customers and UPS is taking no responsibility in the matter. The bees were alive and healthy when they left the apiary. Thus Cedar Glenn is no longer shipping bees.


A lawsuit can settle that.


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## Bens-Bees (Sep 18, 2008)

Grant said:


> Buying packages is the traditional way of expanding. I think the hassles and the hardships are prompting the astute beekeeper to make their own splits, raising their own queens when the season is appropriate.
> 
> This is a movement to be sustainable, or at least less dependent upon someone else (including the Postal authorities), and a movement to be more self-sufficient. To use an old cliche, it's a shifting paradigm.
> 
> ...


But there doesn't seem to be any lack of demand for packages, so while many beekeepers are doing that, there are others that are still buying packages.


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## Hampton (Apr 24, 2007)

Shipping bees has got to have a very high mortality rate. I can see why some shipping companies are not shipping them. I think also many of the bigger beekeepers are picking up more of the packages so there may be a overall lack of supply for shipping to a smaller market when the commercial guys can pickup the bees.

On the self sustaining note: In my area I have seen both sides. The Colonial Beekeepers has made a point of not ordering packages as a club. Our Nuc program provides more than enough bees for everyone and excess for sale to new beekeepers thoughout the area. I don't think anyone ships bees though. There is one club in my area though that still orders over 100 packages a year, I think last year they had 150+. Its a choise we all make, one way or the other.


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## louborges (May 16, 2009)

One reason I want to order packages is to start only medium brood boxes. I have two full deeps I started this summer and don't know how to split a deep into a medium. After I get my two packages this coming spring I will have both deeps and mediums to split in the future.


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## Hambone (Mar 17, 2008)

NDnewbeek said:


> Hambone,
> 
> How were the bees from Waldo? I am considering ordering from him.


Waldo’s bees were fine. I bought a package a couple of years ago as my first set of bees. The addiction got the best of me and I wanted another package. The only bees I could find were Waldo’s. George didn’t want to ship them to me since I live in TX and the travel time and distance was so long. I finally talked him into it. Got the bees in and had very few dead bees. I put these in my TBH. They built up very well. Very gentle, good workers. Then I switched to doing all Lang style hives. I didn’t ever treat them with anything, and basically just left them alone to swarm and to add drones in my area. They died this summer. I am guessing the mites got them. With the proper management I am sure they would be great bees. If I lived closer I would buy more from him. 

On a side note. If you haven’t talked to George before. He comes off as being a really old grumpy kind of guy. That’s just him. Don’t take it personally.


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## StevenG (Mar 27, 2009)

louborges, one idea that might help you get your bees into all mediums is when it comes time to reverse your deeps, if the bottom deep is empty, simply put mediums on top of the top deep. If not, go ahead and put a medium of comb if you have it, foundation is you don't, above the brood nest. The queen and bees will move up into the mediums.... keep doing that until the bottom deep is empty, and you've got the colony in mediums. If you use foundation, be sure to feed, to help them build comb and keep from starving. Might take a season, but there you go! Just an idea, good luck to you!
Steven


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