# Apivar: low results



## RAK (May 2, 2010)

How did you do check the mite levels?


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

I noticed that about 4 weeks after the application had many bees in hives with deformed wings and the shorter abdomen. Also less bees in hives, brood with mosaic pattern, some brood half eaten, and some mites over the bees. I repeated the treatment and and all ended well . Some hives were weakened , however . For this reason I do not think it is resistance.

Rarely I check the mites level. I can not make time for it.


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

If the treatment is started after the varroa has reached high levels, then your results are what I see also. It's hard to figure the best timing for treating when we also have to figure in the timing of harvesting honey. I used apivar this year and left it in the hives for 6 full weeks. It did wonders for me, much better results and easier to use than many treatments I've tried over the past decade.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Eduardo Gomes said:


> I noticed that about 4 weeks after the application had many bees in hives with deformed wings and the shorter abdomen. Also less bees in hives, brood with mosaic pattern, some brood half eaten, and some mites over the bees. I repeated the treatment and and all ended well . Some hives were weakened , however . For this reason I do not think it is resistance.
> 
> Rarely I check the mites level. I can not make time for it.


Your were too late on the treatment. Your seeing damage done before the strips went in.
If you have time to treat your hives you have time to check for your mite levels. It takes seconds per yard. Not making time for monitoring is no excuse. Ask yourself, why am I treating my hives? Because the book told you to? How do you know if the treatments work, or necessary?


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

Ian said:


> Your were too late on the treatment.


Yes Ian you are right . But how to do otherwise?

I do 2 treatments per year. One Fev-March and another Ag-September. For the first time in these six years I get the conviction that should have made an intermediate treatment.

But I'm very limited in in choices for 3 reasons:
1 ) the high temperatures outside ;
2 ) honey in supers ;
3 ) much sealed brood in the nests .

On the other hand I have hives that have a brood peak Feb- March by the sea, which I then take into the country , full of bees and brood and which will continue with high brood during the months of April and May . Some of these hives I moved them again to higher altitudes and continue with high brood in June-July .

Am I screwed!??:scratch:

This forum has presented to me some clues but I have not come to a satisfactory conclusion.



> If you have time to treat your hives you have time to check for your mite levels.


What I do is a very crude approach is true .
How can I do better?


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Thats a pretty tough scenario Eduardo but it's one that happens here to lot of California and Florida beekeepers as well. Assuming each one of these moves is resulting in some surplus honey, is there a window where you can put on a formic or thymol treatment when there aren't any boxes on and temps are a bit cooler?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Eduardo Gomes said:


> But I'm very limited in in choices for 3 reasons:
> 1 ) the high temperatures outside ;
> 2 ) honey in supers ;
> 3 ) much sealed brood in the nests .


I guess I don't understand the problem. Are you talking about chemical application of Apivar, amertraz? What kind of outdoor temps are you concerned about with the Apivar treatment? You must have a period during your yearly management plans where the colonies are smaller and growing for at least 6 week?


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

I presume he is trying to leave a safe interval (6 weeks?) between Apivar treatment and honey production.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Eduardo Gomes said:


> What I do is a very crude approach is true .
> How can I do better?


Take my comments as suggestions. I will tell you what I do. 

During one of my rounds, I will scoup ten or so bees from random hives (about 6 per yard) into a alcohol shaker (a two sided container with a screen in between) After each yard I will shake the sample to take a quick look at if there is any mites present. Usually get 100 bees in per yard, and the count of mites is a quick measure of the % infestation in that yard. This is my on the go test. All my samples get dumped into a common pail and labeled.

Later that day or that week I will do a more intense shake and screen off all the mites. I count the bees and get my operational levels. It gives me a way of measuring the pest pressure in my apiary and whether or not I need to take action. It keeps me from finding myself in a situation as you describe here where as your applying treatments and not finding results as the damages have already been done. 

Later I will take a sample from the pail and send it away for further analysis for nosema. 

Edurardo, if you start monitoring and measuring your pest levels like this, know your levels and start managing accordingly your going to look like a genius around the other beekeepers in your area.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

jim lyon said:


> I presume he is trying to leave a safe interval (6 weeks?) between Apivar treatment and honey production.


Id trim that 6 weeks back, way back


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

Ian said:


> You must have a period during your yearly management plans where the colonies are smaller and growing for at least 6 week?


Yes Ian I have , is when I do the first treatment in Jan- Feb in apiaries by the sea. In apiaries on he other side of country (near Spain) I do the treatments after one month in Feb- March. I usually leave the strips between 6-8 weeks.
The second treatment I do is in July-August in apiaries by the sea and mid- August to mid-October in the apiaries near Spain.

Yes Jim, I program the first treatments so I can take of past 8 weeks and before starting the first honey flow in the middle of April.

This year amitraz was not so effective in the second period treatment. My idea is that it may have been because of the heat . Also put the chance of a lot does not comply . I do not know ! I stress that it was the first time in six years I had this low efficiency. I note also that from time to time have used the Apistan , which as we know had an active ingredient of another family . However predominantly I use the Apivar

*In my opinion I must find a treatment that can be applied in June to lower the pressure of the mites .
*
But I have these three conditions I mentioned above, and for some hives that I do transhumance is more difficult the management of treatments.

A difficult scenario for which I have to find a solution.


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

Ian said:


> Take my comments as suggestions. I will tell you what I do.


Thank you for your suggestions Ian . I was in need of this good guidance . I'll have to spend to make this control.
Without any modesty I am already a good beekeeper, by my country's standards , but I still have a lot of edge to filing .


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

Ian said:


> I will scoup ten or so bees from random hives (about 6 per yard) into a alcohol shaker


I found this slideshow http://vpqueenbees.com/vp-breeding-program/vp-alcohol-wash-assay. The procedure seems clear to me .
I have a question: what is the % that defines the threshold between "treat" and " do not treat "? Thank you!


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Eduardo Gomes said:


> I have a question: what is the % that defines the threshold between "treat" and " do not treat "? Thank you!


I will tell you my numbers to help give you a reference. There are many factors that affect your threshold. 

I run a 1% in the spring and up to 5% in the fall, but I have reduced that fall # to 2-3% as viral diseases seem to contribute to the bees ability to handle the mite.


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## crazylocha (Mar 26, 2013)

Just out of curiosity Eduardo, did your Apivar strips get heavily propolised this past treatment? Something unusual we saw this year ourselves (at work)


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

crazylocha said:


> Just out of curiosity Eduardo, did your Apivar strips get heavily propolised this past treatment?


The strips did not appear more propolized than in previous treatments. Were slightly darker at edges but the central region of the strips was milk white color.
Thank you Ian for you references!


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

I just find this information on the net that can help explain what happened to me.

_*A good spring Apivar treatment will reduce varroa to where only a few mites show up in varroa alcohol washes, even the next October. In my inspection tours, I often saw yards that revealed zero mites, or only a few in the six samples we took because they hives were treated in spring. Seeing that is very satisfying. Apivar is magic.

Fall treatment is more difficult and expensive to do well because there is more brood and bees, calling for more strips. The brood can be scattered through the hive, and the bees are also spread out everywhere. I also think that, in off-flow times individual bees have their own favourite spots in the hive and don't mix as much as during active periods. Treatment relies on the bees moving around and spreading the treatment, which is on their exterior body parts.

Also in fall, the bees are usually active down on the floor, especially in singles and doubles, and that is where mites fall when weakened by the Apivar. In spring, these mites chill and die there alone, but in fall treatments, weakened mites often have a second chance if they can get onto a passing bee and survive.

The individual mites that are weakened but not killed by Apivar are potentially the founding generation of an increasingly resistant mite population. As all the susceptible mites are killed, the hardier ones can survive to interbreed and form a 'super race' of Apivar resistant mites.

These super mites may have no resistance to other treatments, and that is why it is important that any mites that fall should die, and also that we must rotate treatments. Mites that can withstand Apivar have no special ability to withstand formic or oxalic acids, thymol, and probably Apistan either.*_* in http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/2012/diary111012.htm

For me make sense a lot of things said. Furthermore my difficulty was also in late summer treatment , early fall. 
What do you think? When the beekeeper refers to more strips will mean more than two per nest?*


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## DPBsbees (Apr 14, 2011)

I'm by no means a commercial beekeeper, but I would try to use one of the organics like formic, thymol, or oxalic after your early Apivar treatment. I don't know your temperature range then, but it sure seems like the correct thing to do to avoid resistance. How about hitting them with ApiGuard after harvest, and oxalic heading into your winter when they have less brood? This works for me.


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

Yes Dan, I am examining the possibility of using the MAQS and / or the OAV . To do these treatments have to revamp the entire calendar to find windows with little brood and desirable temperature ranges . The best opportunity is in early spring , but the MAQS can bring problems to the start of hives for what I have understand. As for the OAV still know little , I have to get better informed . What I have understand in the forum is that it is a treatment that applies with little or no brood. I have two apiaries by the sea in which the queens only stop laying in July-August , an extremely hot months ( + 30-35 ° C of ) . I think these apiaries I can not apply OAV. In other apiaries near the Spanish border queens stop laying in December - January . As these hives I made the first treatment in Feb- March , they can not stand up to this point without treatment. If I apply a chemical(or other) effective treatment in September-October is not justified, to my eyes, to treat hives back in December.

For a better understanding I do two or three honey harvests and have the supers (in continuous, I shot and do the extraction and return to place the next day to the next flow) in hives from mid-April to mid-September when I finish the last harvest.


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

I want to thank all of you who so kindly gave me your opinion .

I will look pretty much what you told me . When reaching a conclusion I'll be happy to share it with you.


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## Juhani Lunden (Oct 3, 2013)

jim lyon said:


> Thats a pretty tough scenario Eduardo but it's one that happens here to lot of California and Florida beekeepers as well. Assuming each one of these moves is resulting in some surplus honey, is there a window where you can put on a formic or thymol treatment when there aren't any boxes on and temps are a bit cooler?


There is just now a lot of on going discussion among the European Buckfast beebreeders, that thymol and possibly also formic acid have lost their efficiency, at least partly.


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

I am very surprised by these suspicions about the effectiveness of thymol and formic acid. Technical by us here have reported that these oils and acids as have no specific mechanism of action on mites, unlike synthetic, mites hardly find the way to resist them. Juhani can you elaborate a little more about? 

The alleged loss of efficiency is associated exactly to what? Varroa strains resistant to this products? Other reasons ...


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## Juhani Lunden (Oct 3, 2013)

Bernhard, kannst du übersezsen, eilig...
Antwort:


Bei mir hat Thymol total seine Wirkung verloren da ich es seit etwa 20 Jahre, im Dauerbelass, verwendet habe. 
Der Varroabefall lag etwa in den vorhergehenden Jahren, im September, um 200-350 Varroa. Plötzlich stieg er auf 250-500, das Jahr darauf, 2012, waren es 400-850 Varroa. Die Folge war dass im Frühjahr 2013 28% meiner Völker Tod waren und, ausser einem Volk, alle leicht bis sehr schwer angeschlagen waren.
Möchte betonen als ich den Anstieg des Befalles festgestellt hatte eine stetiges Nachfüllen vom Thymol gemacht habe d. h. über das doppelte an Thymol verteilt hatte. 
Kollegen die mit selben Linien wie ich arbeiten, und die im Juli behandelt hatten, stellten nur belanglose Verluste fest.


Im Vorbeigehen möchte ich melden das ein Wissenschaftler von Nïmes bis ein Gramm/kg Thymol im Wachs festgestellt hat. Dieser Blitzschlag aus heiterem Himmel wäre zu erwarten gewesen wenn man nicht ohne jegliche Nachforschung behauptet hätte das, das biologisch sakralisierte Thymol, keinerlei Rückstände verursachen würde. 
Es geht hier nicht einem ausgedienten Helfer Schande zu geben sondern die Ohren spitzen wenn man auch, hin und wieder, hört das Ameisensäure auch schon Schwächen zeigen würde. 
Als die zugelassenen Produkte wie AS, OS, TY, MS, aufgekommen sind hat man behauptet das die Wirkungsdauer in die 100 Jahre gehen müsste…


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

Thank you Juhani. For those who do not know anything about German is the English translation.

"Bernard, you can übersezsen , hurry ...
Answer:
For me, thymol has totally lost its effect because I 've had it for about 20 years , used in Dauerbelass .
The varroa infestation was about in previous years , in September to Varroa 200-350 . Suddenly he rose to 250-500 , the following year , 2012 , there were 400-850 Varroa . The result was that in the spring of 2013, 28 % of my peoples were death and , except for a people who were all mild to very severe battering .
Would like to stress than I had found the increase in infestation a constant refilling of thymol made ​​'ve had that spread across the double of thymol .
Colleagues with the same lines as I work , and who had treated in July , found only insignificant losses.


In passing, I would like to report a scientist from Nïmes to one gram / ​​kg thymol in the wax has been found . This lightning out of a clear sky would have been expected if it had not asserted without any investigation that the biologically sacralized thymol, would cause no residue .
This is not to give a disused helper shame but pointed ears if you would also , from time to time , hear the formic already showing weaknesses .
*As the approved products such as AS , OS , TY , MS, have emerged it has been asserted that would have to go the duration of action in 100 years ...*"

If this particular case is a symptom of something more general is going it pays to be careful .
If so once again proves that the industry has an optimistic skew, to say the least, about the products it sells.


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## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)

> For me, thymol has totally lost its effect because I've had it in continual use for about 20 years.
> 
> In previous years the varroa infestation was about 200-350 in September. Suddenly it rose to 250-500, the following year, 2012, there were 400-850 Varroa. The final result was that in the spring of 2013, 28% of my hives were dead and, except for one hive all were very weak.
> 
> ...


Translation of the above.


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## Sasha (Feb 22, 2005)

Couple of things:

I would check for mite levels, I consider it a must. You need to know what are you treating, how much and what results did you get. I did formic acid in August, checked the levels before and after and it worked good enough.Just today did oxalic acid dribbling, which is the thing you should do in your apiary where you have brood breaks in december. It is devastating for varroa.

I am interested in this talk about formic and thymol not being good enough, but have my doubts about it. I think with both formic and thymol you need to know how and when you should do it. And of course check the effects of your treatments.

This season I bought thymol which was of very bad quality. i didn't use it, did formic acid instead. 

And last sugestion: mix your treatments. Do not use same treatment all the time.

Cheers.


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

Sasha said:


> This season I bought thymol which was of very bad quality. i didn't use it, did formic acid instead.


Thank you for your recommendations. No doubt I will have to spend doing the counting of mites.
What are the temperature thresholds that you consider to make a treatment with formic acid?
How do you realize that thymol was of low quality?


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## Sasha (Feb 22, 2005)

Hi Eduardo,

I recommend you read more on this site http://www.mitegone.com/
It is about a commercial product but there is a ton of information about formic acid application. You will find all the answers there.
I have applied it here in Serbia, via a locallu popular method. We use cotton (female) hygienic pad, injected with formic acid. About 25 ml per treatment, applied 4-5 times, 4-5 days appart. It's recommended here to feed bees when treating with formic acid, to prevent excessive damage to bees and queens.
I didnt have to many issues with formic acid this season. Couple of hives went queenless, probably due to the formic acid, not too much. Cotton pads prevents to fast evaporation, which is what you should be carefull about. humidity is also an issue, as higher humidity decreases the evaporation rate. I did treatments at the end of August, the temperature did not rise above 25 C, and the mean tremperature was probably lower than that. Another trick is to cool down the formic acid in the freezeer before application, and doing the treatments in the evening.
Thymol was of dirty yellowish color, and the smell of thymol was much lower. I did not use it at all this season. In my experience thymol is efficient, and much easier and safer for bees and beekeeper. Apiguard is even easier but muchmore expensive. Thymol is the active substance in Apiguard.

https://mrkailo.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/formic-acid.jpg

Be warned: it is much easier (time and effort vise) to work with various strips (Apivar and simmilar) than with acids, thymol etc.


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

"Sumary: Amitraz is a varroacide used the longest (over thirty years) and most commonly by Polish beekeepers. This involves high risk of V. destructor developing amitraz resistance. Therefore it is necessary to monitor the effectiveness of treatments to ensure appropriate protection of the honeybee colonies. The objective of this study was to evaluate the efficacy of amitraz used as the contact varroacide (Biowar 500 formulation) to control V. destructor in honeybee colonies. Field studies were conducted in 2011 and 2012. In both years, the amitraz treatments started in the last weeks of August. Two strips of Biowar 500 (500 mg of amitraz per strip) were inserted into each colony and removed after 8 weeks. The control colonies were left untreated for 8 weeks. After removing the strips the control therapy was conducted in all colonies. The average efficacy of amitraz (E%) calculated for the two years combined, after 6 and 8 weeks of treatment, amounted to 90.6% and 94.6%, respectively. As a result of the natural mortality in the control colonies, the population of parasites lowered only by 16.4% and 23.9% during 6 and 8 weeks. *The efficacy of the strips was lower in colonies with larger amount of brood*."
in The Amitraz Strips Efficacy in Control of Varroa Destructor After Many Years Application of Amitraz in Apiaries, Piotr Semkiw / Piotr Skubida / Krystyna Pohorecka, Journal of Apicultural Science, 2013


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

"Given the key role played by honey bees in almost all terrestrial ecosystems, maintaining bee populations in adequate sanitary conditions is crucial for these essential pollinators to continue their work. From the beginning of the 21st century, beekeepers have reported a progressive increase in the overwintering mortality of honey bee colonies worldwide. Despite the failure to reach a consensus regarding the cause of this phenomenon, pathogens are thought to be strongly implicated. *In the present work, we provide evidence of the negative effects of colony parasitization by Nosema spp. – primarily by N. ceranae– on the effectiveness of acaricide strips to treat Varroa destructor.* The effectiveness of the Varroa mite strip treatment (Apivar®) was greater in colonies in which Nosema spp. parasitization had been controlled. Several studies report that infection by Nosema spp. may affect the behaviour of worker bees. As the effectiveness of Varroa strip treatment depends on bees contacting the strips and their subsequent interaction within the colony, such behavioural and social alterations could interfere with the treatment and allow more severe effects to develop in the colonies infected by Nosema. These results should be considered when assessing acaricide treatments in field conditions due to the high prevalence of both pathogens worldwide." 

in Nosema spp. parasitization decreases the effectiveness of acaricide strips (Apivar®) in treating varroosis of honey bee (Apis mellifera iberiensis) colonies. Cristina Botías, Raquel Martín-Hernández; Laura Barrios, Encarna Garrido-Bailón, Antonio Nanetti, Aranzazu Meana andMariano Higes, Environmental Microbiology Reports; Volume 4, Issue 1, pages 57–65, February 2012


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## Axtmann (Dec 29, 2002)

The guy was steady filling in thymol after he find so many mites. I think, he used thymol crystal and who knows how old the crystals are. Thymol should not be older than approx. 3 years, and the best is storing it in a freezer. Exposed to UV light (sun)... this destroys Thymol in a short time. You can fill a bucked old thymol in the hive and it is useless.


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

This text http://realbeescience.wordpress.com/2013/11/22/is-amitraz-resistance-in-varroa-real/ was certainly ones of the best I have ever read on the Apivar/amitraz.

Allow me, I think, to understood why I had low efficacy to treat with Apivar in late summer.


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## johng (Nov 24, 2009)

Mr. Gomes it sounds like your weather and honey flows are a lot like ours here in Florida. You may have to treat with something else in summer to help keep the mites down through out the year. Our bees almost never get a brood break they will be rearing lots of brood from Feb. through late November. So I treat more than twice a year. The problem is our heat in the summer limits your options. Formic is out it is way too hot it will really knock the hives back and you will loose queens. Apigarud which is a Thymol based product works pretty good. It comes in a tub that you measure out the dose on a small index card. You can use a half treatment and get a good mite knock down with little damage to the brood or the queens. Some of the commercial guys here in Florida treat as many as 4 times a year to keep the mites in check. They are knocking the mites back in between honey flows.


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

John your climate in Florida should be very similar to my country. You perfectly understood the crossroads where I am. I treat by the calendar and had no problems controlling the mites until this time. I know the Apiguard but never used it. You and your fellow beekeepers in Florida put the Apiguard with supers in hives and the bees gattering nectar? Do you treat with Apiguard with temperatures above 86F (30 ° C)? Do you think of thymol from Apiguard leaves some smell/ taste on the honey in supers?

These questions are put by some beekeepers in Portugal who have had some problems with the Apiguard. I never had problems with my Apivar calendar with two treatments until now. I 'm collecting information to find the best alternative to do an intermediate treament in mid-June, a very hot month, and a intense nectar flow period.


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

"The application of one Apivar strip to a strong 5-frame nuc on a decent nectar flow did not appear to inhibit either colony buildup or the drawing of foundation. I am toying with continuing this trial, periodically replacing the Apivar strips, through next spring, to see whether there are any other observable effects upon the colonies." in http://scientificbeekeeping.com/effect-of-amitraz-on-buildup-of-nucs/


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## johng (Nov 24, 2009)

We normally have a period right after Gallberry (first of June) but before the Palms start in late July where you have an opportunity to use an Apigaurd treatment without honey supers on. But, I really don't think it would make much of a difference. Oh yea, it a lot hotter than 86 it's normally 90-95 F. That's the nice thing about the Apigaurd is you can scoop out a smaller dose depending on the size of the colony and the ambient temps. It's defiantly not near as hard on the bees as Formic. Oxalic vapor would to labor intensive and and Oxalic dribble would not be very effective with so much brood in the hives.


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

After everything I've read so far, I agree with your perspective, that in a month of very hot temperatures and much brood in the nest formic acid and oxalic acid are not correct alternatives.
So you treat with Apiguard in June, at a time when temperatures can reach 95F. John how long do you let the Apiguard in hives? 
Does apiguard kill varroa in the capped cells? I think not, but I'm not sure.
What are your timings of treatment, especially the following treatment to Apiguard?


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## johng (Nov 24, 2009)

I do a treatment right after I pull honey the first week of June then two weeks later I do another treatment for two weeks. Then its about time to put the supers back on. No, to my knowledge apigaurd doesn't kill mites uneer the capped cells. So u have to do two treatments two weeks apart. But, even if you don't don't have time for the full treatment u may have some temporary relief from the two week treatment. It may buy u enough time to get u to fall where u can do a full treatment of Apivar.


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

Thank you John for your valuable suggestions.

I will make a short summary of what are my thoughts at this time .

Starting with Apivar and its effects I would like to emphasize the following:
- The Apivar is the treatment I have used predominantly in the 6 years I have beekeeping experience, and always with excellent results, taking the latter situation;
- the Amitraz mechanism of action over varroa, is unlike many of the other synthetic: it paralyzes the varroa, which fell on the bottoms and will die of cold and/or hunger ;
- according to data from a recent scientific study about amitraz residues and their metabolites left in honey, and after some calculations made by me , I concluded that it would be necessary to consume more than 15 000 kg of honey a day for the consumer exceed the amitraz threshold recommended by the European authorities for a daily diet ;
- all I have read points to a harmless impact, or close to that of amitraz on bees (there is a study that reports a negative impact on the queens, that I can not confirm based on my experience);
- amitraz and its metabolites do not contaminate the waxes.

Of course, what I say is not frivolous, results from a range of documents analysis and some of my experience, but I have not read everything there is on the Apivar, and especially these findings are not intended to be a definitive and universal truth.

What explanation I encounter to the low efficacy of Apivar this last treatment I performed at the end of last summer :
- this year I had a low rate of swarming ;
- when I started treatment in late August there were no visible signs of varroa in my hives (little or no bees with deformed wings, creating sealed without any PMS signal);
- my calendar treatment was in accordance with the honey harvest. I noticed that the apiaries treated earlier (from mid August) had higher levels of reinfestation those treated later (from the beginning of September). In two apiaries have at the coast (on the other side of my country), and are not production apiaries, I treated both in late July. At the time I saw not a single bee with deformed wings and much less PMS. After about six weeks after starting treatment I found that the cooler/dark apiary, to be in the middle of eucalyptus, reinfestation rate was lower than in the apiary which is more exposed to the sun;
- having regard to the mechanisms of action of amitraz on varroa, my best explanation is that the end of July or August, with days still very hot , some of the fallen varroa in the bottom of the hives, and that is paralyzed but not dead, returned to rise to bees because the days and warm nights have not contributed to the death of varroa.
- I do not think that I'm before a Apivar resistance phenomenon, because with a second treatment in September and October, I could bring the varroa to very low levels (bees with deformed wings left of the view, the new bees born healthy ahead my eyes, I saw no varroa on bees) and today, past three months, the hives are clean ;
- a hypothesis that does not totally rule out is the possibility to be facing a lot not to comply. I have heard reports of other beekeepers with the same problems, ie with a low effectiveness of Apivar in late summer treatments, and early fall .

What is the strategy to follow from now on :
- Continue to be treated according to the calendar ;
- Make a preliminary count of mites and make the treatment of late winter (February- March) with Apivar (with another lot). After this treatment I will do it again the counting of mites ;
- Make a preliminary count of mites and In mid-June I will take a few days (2 weeks maximum) between nectar flows to put Apiguard to an intermediate control of mites. After this treatment I will do it again the counting of mites.
- In mid-September do a preliminary count of mites and do the treatment of all apiaries with Apistan (fluvalinate mechanism of action over varroa is different from amitraz, effectively killing varroa). And then to return to a count of mites to determine the efficacy of treatment.

These are my reflections for varroa control program for the year 2015. Feel free to give your ideas, which can be very useful for me to improve or modify this strategy.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

"Continue to be treated according to the calendar ;
- Make a preliminary count of mites and "

Sounds like your on top of the situation. Rotating treatments, performing counts, strategizing timing. It's all you can do and I think your going to see an improvement in your mite loads from now on.


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## Bkwoodsbees (Feb 8, 2014)

Ian...what treatments do you use to keep your mite counts down?


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

In two of the my apiaries near atlantique coast , I was yesterday and today applying Apivar strips. I was treating according to the calendar, but I decided to do a count of mites.
In this two apiaries with about 140 beehives I made ​​a collection bees in 28 hives (20% ). I collect about 1400 bees. In the process of collecting and counting I used the washing of bees with water and detergent. Sample of 1,400 bees fell 25 varroa . The percentage was 1.8 % . 

Thank you all, especially to Ian who was my mentor and booster for me to start using this technique.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Bkwoodsbees said:


> Ian...what treatments do you use to keep your mite counts down?


I currently rely on Apivar with excellent success.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Eduardo Gomes said:


> start using this technique.


The main point is you know. And by knowing you are better equip to manage the situation which ever way you choose to.
And now your experience and perspective can be passed to the next beekeeper


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

Yes Ian, I spent the message today to a friend who is too confident and is to postpone treatment in the same area of my apiaries. Because he does not see the varroa in bees ... you know. I explained how to make the count, as it is simple, and it consumes little time. I think I left him worried. My intention was that even. With the varroa the worst we can do is postpone counts and/or treatments.


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

This week I was in my apiaries near the Spanish border to do the counting of mites, among other tasks. I collected a sample of about 1200 bees and caught in the meshes 5 varroas. A figure of less than 0.5%. These figures have confirmed that after 6 years of treatment with Apivar my hives still do not have significant levels of tolerant mites to amitraz. Blessed persistence, as David Eugene Edwards sings (see here please https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvhKRIvJ7Z0)


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

After about four weeks on the introduction of Apivar strips I decided to do a mite count on 100 drone cells. Found 7 mites. According to a threshold of a portuguese document is a low/good percentage for drone cells. What is your opinion ? Thank you for your attention.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

The egg to adult time for a drone is 4 weeks. So having a varroa count at 4 weeks may not mean much, those drones could have been infected fairly shortly after the strips went in.

To be valid, we need a pre treatment varroa count. So, if for example the pre treatment count was 200 mites per 100 drone cells, and now it is 7 per hundred, that could be an acceptable reduction if the strips are to be left on another 4 weeks.

My experience with Apivar is it is slower to kill the mites than some other chemicals. So for me, I leave the strips on for 8 weeks, by the end of that there is a very high kill, but I don't even check part way through cos it can look pretty discouraging and I always think it's not going to work.

Actually another argument for leaving the strips on 8 weeks is that is 2 drone brood cycles.


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

Yes Oldtimer. You are seeing the whole scenario.
My intention is to let the strips 8 weeks as I have always done. The pretreatment load mites was evaluated by me but with another method. Sample of 1,400 bees, washed bees with water and detergent (wash roll, right?) and fell 25 varroa. The percentage was 1.8 %. 

I decided to make this countingg for 3 reasons:
- Sleep more easily because these hives are exploding with brood;
- Train the technique and make it a routine;
- Crossing counts of various techniques and getting numbers for preparing a training that I can provide within months on the control/treatment of varroa .

Tank you Oldtimer!:thumbsup:


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

OK well a 1.8% adult bee wash could at a very rough calculation equal a drone brood infestation rate of 35 to 40 mites per hundred drone larvae some of those being multiple mites in one cell.

So IF that was the case you have a reasonable reduction but it's all guesswork for now, only time will tell.

I too have found mites part way through Apivar treatment but at the 8 weeks there is almost invariably none to be found, so good luck!


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

When stopping this treatment I'll go back to doing these counts, with various techniques to cross results. Then I will return to post the data. Thank you Oldtimer.


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

In 30-03 I took the strips of Apivar of two apiaries and did the counting of mites. I made a sample of about 1050 bees of 19 hives and found two varroa mites. Infestation rate = 0.2 %.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Bingo

good work


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