# My bees been robbed!!



## Slow Drone (Apr 19, 2014)

Redhawk said:


> As a 1st year keep, I have been more than pleased with my colony's expansion. Yesterday all was normal. This morning I found dead pupae, flakes, dead & dieing bees on the bottom board & the ground in front of the hive. Raining off & on all day, mostly on, but I managed to get in & found the stores empty, comb chewed up, & what remained of the colony Grouped in the brood box. Question??? How often is the queen lost in a battle like this? I didn't want to risk going to dead in to find her. I put a front feeder on. This past week the foraging has been pretty sparse & with rain for the next two days I'm not taking the chance of them starving. This happened just 2 days after a neighbor keep had her hive robbed. I went to help & when I inspected her hive I never found the queen. I'm thinking the bees that robbed her hive are the same marading bees that got mine. Would it be worth the trouble to set a swarm trap out for them? How about land mines? Drones with missles?


Problem is you are using a boardsman feeder which will promote robbing. If you live in TN robber screens are necessary. You can still use a boardsman feeder with a robber screen.


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## Redhawk (Jun 7, 2016)

Yep. I'm still stuck in spring mode & just can't believe it's already that late in the year. But I wasn't feeding them this summer. Fed for just a few weeks this spring but once they started finding the goodies I pulled the feeder. And as good as they were doing I wasn't going to. But that should have jumped out at me to prepare for robbers this month. I have to take the blame.


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## Slow Drone (Apr 19, 2014)

I keep robber screens on year round you're safe during the spring flow but after that it's best to have them on.


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## JeronimoJC (Jul 21, 2016)

May I ask how big your colony was when this occurred? I am curious as to how large a colony needs to be before it can successfully defend its resources.


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## Redhawk (Jun 7, 2016)

Learned my lesson, SD. I thought I'd graduated from the school of hard knocks, but I guess I've still got a lesson or three to learn. 

JC, I had 2 10 frame deeps full of bees & a 10 frame medium super at 75% full. I still have a solid deep of bees left so I'm going to requeen if I can't find her.


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## JeronimoJC (Jul 21, 2016)

Wow, I had no idea a colony of that size could still be robbed. How big was the hive opening?

Thanks!


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## Redhawk (Jun 7, 2016)

Still had it wide open. My bad, just wasn't paying close enough attention to my monthly schedule. Closing both hives up 1st thing in the am.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

Redhawk said:


> First hive came from a local old timer honey farmer. He's been a good mentor, but he does treat some.


was this the hive that got robbed, and did your neighbor's hive come from the same supplier?



squarepeg said:


> i think you'll want to have a plan in place in the event that you have a colony succumb to mites prior to winter, particularly if a colony is weakened to the point of getting robbed out thereby allowing the mites to be spread to nearby colonies. there are several options available for dealing with such a scenario, including the use of treatments as a stop gap measure followed by requeening when possible with better genetics.


the dead pupae you describe above and spotty brood you mentioned in the other thread are clues that your colony may have been collapsing from mites. if so, that's the reason for the robbing.

did you or your neighbor do any sampling?


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## Redhawk (Jun 7, 2016)

No but was planning to this weekend. The wife picked up a couple mason jars the other day for me. But I am always watching them & looking for the red spots or dwv. The spotty brood was just a hatch out that was built back up with a great solid brood pattern again. When I showed my mentor the photos he agreed she was still going strong & he always zooms into look for mites. I find tilting the framecangive a good view of the underwing areas. And I have checked the solid bottom board thoroughly before I cleaned it. Diffentitely doing a sugar roll for starters.


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## Redhawk (Jun 7, 2016)

Sorry. I'm still waking up. Good mornin, Sp. I just remembered something I feel important. My last inspect was last week when I pulled a frame of brood to put in the queenless hive with the new caged queen. I didn't take any nurse bees with the frame for fear of taking the queen. At that inspect brood was only found in the 1st deep. When I pulled frames yesterday to check the 2nd deep, she had started laying in the center of the 2nd deep. Times like this I wish I had the years of experience under my belt. But I talked with my mentor again yesterday & he's scratchin his head too. Just seems to me that two rob outs within days in the same area means there's one mean colony of bees out in these woods. Guess thet don't like having to compete for the stores that used to belong to only them.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

good morning. 

with bees it's sometimes hard to know what exactly is going on or why exactly things happen, especially when troubleshooting on a forum, but most of us have probably had that head scratching experience at least once. :scratch:

i would say it's likely that once robbing started in those hives that bees from more than one colony joined in on the frenzy and it's probably not just one colony responsible.


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## Redhawk (Jun 7, 2016)

squarepeg said:


> good morning.
> 
> with bees it's sometimes hard to know what exactly is going on or why exactly things happen, especially when troubleshooting on a forum, but most of us have probably had that head scratching experience at least once. :scratch:
> 
> i would say it's likely that once robbing started in those hives that bees from more than one colony joined in on the frenzy and it's probably not just one colony responsible.


I can see there's a lot of head scratching. You could be right about the robbing colony being joined by others. But looking at the casualties & the number of bees still in my hive, I believe the robbers paid a price for their booty.


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

Sorry to hear it. Up here it's wise to reduce entrances around mid-July or a little before that. 
With 30 in a yard it's mandatory.


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## Redhawk (Jun 7, 2016)

Robbers came back this morning only to find a wet sheet over the hive. Wish I had a swarm trap ready.


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## Redhawk (Jun 7, 2016)

Thanks, Aunt B. It's a hard to accept, but a lesson learned.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

Redhawk said:


> Wish I had a swarm trap ready.


colonies typically swarm in the spring just ahead of the main nectar flow. i'm not sure setting a trap out there would do much with respect to the robbers. try to identify why the colonies were 'weakened' and unable to defend themselves. too much entrance and/or too many boxes to defend for the size of the population could be contributory...


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

squarepeg said:


> i would say it's likely that once robbing started in those hives that bees from more than one colony joined in on the frenzy and it's probably not just one colony responsible.


Bingo.


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## Redhawk (Jun 7, 2016)

Sp, think you hit the mark. The heat & humidity has been beyond extreme this summer & my mentor suggested adding another super to help cool them down. Too much space. My stupidity thinking way out here in the woods I shouldn't have a robbing problem, plus I've been playing catch up since spring, I put off what was on my monthly hive to do list. Never let my guard down again.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

perhaps that was part of the puzzle. but back to the spotty pattern, and even though the spots were filled in with new brood, it's possible that the reason for the spots was that the brood was not making it to emergence, which is possibly due to disease vectored by mites.

sometimes it ends up being a combination of factors resulting in 'the perfect storm' that reaches a tipping point for the colony.

this is the time of year we start getting reports from first year beekeepers about their colonies collapsing. it's fairly common to hear about new colonies that built up very well and grew into multiple boxes only to dwindle at the end of the season.

it is also common to hear that no mites were 'seen' in the hive. i'm not saying this is what is going on with yours redhawk, but given the pedigree of the bees and the history you have provided i think mites have to be at the top of our list of differential diagnoses.

if your area is saturated with non resistant bees, and as one colony after the other succumbs to mite infestation and gets robbed out, the infestation rates keep building and building in the remaining colonies until they reach a tipping point too, a domino effect if you will.

i would suggest going ahead with alcohol wash samples of both yours and your neighbor's robbed out hives for the most definitive rule in/rule out.


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## Redhawk (Jun 7, 2016)

I thought I'd just use my dandy lil swarm vac. Robbers think it's the way in!


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## Redhawk (Jun 7, 2016)

I agree p, Sp. I know there there & it's aggravating not to be able to see them. I'll do the alcohol wash instead of the sugar shake. If it's too good to be true, it ain't true, is it?


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

Redhawk said:


> If it's too good to be true, it ain't true, is it?


most of the time, but with beekeeping there seems to be exceptions to the most of rules, a lot of it 'depends'...


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