# Creamed honey



## bob393 (Aug 4, 2015)

This is a bottle of plain creamed wildflower honey. Somehow it didn't
get rotated out of stock, its from the 2019 harvest.

The top layer kind of looks like thin molasses and tastes like normal,
although a bit thin, honey.

Has anyone ever seen this kind of separation?

Do you think I can re-blend it in with new honey and save it? 
I defiantly can't sell it like this and I have several cases.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Dont mix it with the new honey or the crystal that have grown and dropped out will seed the whole lot. You can warm and hold it till the crystals go back into solution. Some honey are very inclined to crystallize. Others not so much. Can vary year to year as well. If you are on a crop that is really susceptible like canola you may as well cream it immediately because it is going to go.


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## bob393 (Aug 4, 2015)

Actually my plan was to blend all the bottles with some fresh honey and make a new batch of creamed honey.
The reason I even found this old creamed honey is I ran out of my main stock and I needed to make some more.
So it sounds like this will work as good seed honey for the new batch.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

bob393 said:


> Actually my plan was to blend all the bottles with some fresh honey and make a new batch of creamed honey.
> The reason I even found this old creamed honey is I ran out of my main stock and I needed to make some more.
> So it sounds like this will work as good seed honey for the new batch.


I would not risk the new. Lots of posts here to search out on creamed honey. Do a google on the Dyce Process for creaming honey. There are short cuts that omit the heating but for long term stability to prevent just what you have, you need good liquid honey and a fine grain starter at the proper temperature. Experiment with a small batch before you commit.


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## bob393 (Aug 4, 2015)

Perhaps I will just try to re-cream this honey separately and see what happens. 
I agree there is no need to waste more honey.

This is the first time I have seen this which is why I asked. I have produced hundreds of pounds of 
plain and flavored creamed honey over the years.


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## psm1212 (Feb 9, 2016)

Agree with crofter. I would not risk good honey to save the old honey. Also may want to smear some on a refractometer and get a moisture reading. My biggest fear with creamed honey is fermentation. Crystalization increases the moisture content of the honey.


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## bob393 (Aug 4, 2015)

psm1212 said:


> Agree with crofter. I would not risk good honey to save the old honey. Also may want to smear some on a refractometer and get a moisture reading. My biggest fear with creamed honey is fermentation. Crystalization increases the moisture content of the honey.


I did not know that crystallization increased moisture content. I will check it just to be sure.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

bob393 said:


> I did not know that crystallization increased moisture content. I will check it just to be sure.


As the sugar separates out into crystals the liquid portion has higher relative moisture content. Yeast growth is kept dormant by the sugar level. The yeast is present at all times and as soon as the sugar level drops it goes to work. Yeast types vary and some are more tolerant than others to sugar levels.


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## Honey Hive Farms (Nov 1, 2012)

Re cream it, stir it up. This wont happen if you would of put in the freezer. This looks like it has become to hot to keep its nice color and not separate. The freezer is your friend to keep the product nice looking, I know I had to buy a freezer.
Best to you


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## psm1212 (Feb 9, 2016)

There are basically 3 methods to keep creamed honey from fermenting over time: (1) Store it at a temperature that prevents the growth of yeasts (Dyce Paper cites a 1928 study that this target temp is below 52F degrees); (2) heat it sufficiently enough to kill the yeasts present in honey (pasteurization); (3) eat it now.

The Dyce Method calls for the pasteurization of honey in such a manner that honey is heated to a temp high enough (and for long enough) to kill yeasts, but does not damage the honey. He settles on a process where honey is heated to a target temp and then rapidly cooled.


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## bob393 (Aug 4, 2015)

Honey Hive Farms said:


> Re cream it, stir it up. This wont happen if you would of put in the freezer. This looks like it has become to hot to keep its nice color and not separate. The freezer is your friend to keep the product nice looking, I know I had to buy a freezer.
> Best to you


That is defiantly one of the problems. The room I store my honey in can get up to a hundred degrees
in the summer, great for honey, bad for creamed I guess. I can see a refrigerator in my future, if below
52 deg. is the magic number. Or do you really mean a freezer, I have a small chest freezer I could use.


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## psm1212 (Feb 9, 2016)

Dyce just said that yeast will not grow below 52F. I don't think lower would hurt. I have never heard of long-term freezing hurting honey. If anyone knows of a reason to not freeze honey for long-term storage, please let me know. I have never studied that topic. Seems to be ideal if you can afford the freezer space.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

What do you tell the customer? You have to call this "creamed honey" in the freezer. I think there are reasons for each of the steps in Dyce's procedure if you want a stable product over a reasonably long shelf life.


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## psm1212 (Feb 9, 2016)

_"Marvin (1928) suggest that since yeasts are incapable of growth at temperatures below 52F, fermentation might be controlled by keeping the hoey in cold storage. The expense involved would obviously be the chief limiting factor in this practice, and it is doubtful, under present market conditions, whether cold storage is a practicable means of controlling fermentation."_ -Elton Dyce, 1931.

Dyce was doing his research in the 1920's - 1930's. Cold storage was much more costly (relatively) than today. You had to rent space in ice houses and cold storage facilities. Should we rethink this whole deal now that you can buy a $400 deep freeze and keep it running for less than $100/year? Jar it, box it and stick it in the freezer. Pull a case out at the time to let it come to room temperature before you sell it?

All my honey is wet honey. I am thrilled to get 17.5% moisture. Everyone in my area produces wet honey. I don't use the 70% capped rule. If it is not 100% capped, it stays with the bees. I live in fear of watching 1 ton of honey ferment. It would be a serious blow to my little operation if that happened. 

Dyce was never trying to make optimum creamed honey. That was just a byproduct of his research. He was trying to figure out how to preserve honey crops and keep them from fermenting. Almost 100 years later, I feel like I am doing the same thing. 

_"Honey is a perishable product, and the loss through spoilage when it is stored for a considerable time has become serious."_ - Elton Dyce, 1931.


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