# Big ant problem, don't know what to do



## Beewildered61 (Apr 5, 2012)

I know there are ants around all the time, but for the most part they haven't been too big of a problem. But here lately it has been so hot and dry, they are bad even around the house and in the house. Tues., I noticed several big trails of ants going into the hive and the bees were starting to hang around the entrance, even hanging in a little ball off the lip of the entrance. I poured some bug killer around the hive, but the ants just tunneled under the soaked soil and came up underneath the hive.
Yesterday evening I went to check on them and the whole hive face was covered in bees and they are flying all around, and this was when it started thundering and lightning, wind blowing and a slight shower. This morning I went to check and they seem the same, I guess they stayed on the outside of the hive all night. I am afraid they are going to swarm, the way they are looking.... They were just starting to fill the first super too. I have a second hive maybe 30-40 feet away and they aren't being bothered at all, but this hive is more in the sun than the other. any suggestions or info is greatly appreciated.

I got a couple of pics, but I couldn't figure out how to post them.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

The only way I've been able to control ants and keep them from causing trouble for my hives is a poison bait called Amdro. It takes a few days to do its work, but nothing else I've tried works quite as well.


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## Beewildered61 (Apr 5, 2012)

I use those baits by them, they work good around the house. I took 2 and put them at the bottom of the hive the other day, but the ants seemed to ignore them. There were a few going in them, but not near as many as were pouring into the hive.....

If they are in the hive, there's not much you can do is there? Probably wouldn't be a good idea to try to go in the hive seeing as there are so many bees on the outside.....


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## Bradley_Bee (May 21, 2008)

I second the Amdro suggestion . That stuff is great.


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## jrbbees (Apr 4, 2010)

Amdro also comes in a grandular form to spread over an area.
Get that and spread a 10 ft band around your hives.


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## wmcguire (May 6, 2010)

I use Terro. This works better for me.

One little comment on the bearding of the hive... I see that you are in GA. I know that in TN we have been having hot and humid conditions. I have 4 hives, two of which are in the sun more than the other two. The two that are the hottest beard every afternoon late in the day. The other two do not. 

I also use a two deep configuration. I mention that only because one of the bearding hives is a captured swarm from this year. They have not been able to fill the second hive with comb yet, so, they actually have plenty of room. I wouldn't worry too much about them swarming.


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## Beewildered61 (Apr 5, 2012)

Well, this hive swarmed on me back in the middle of March and I wasn't able to get a queen until the first of May. They have built back up and I added a super on it 2 weeks ago and they were just starting to fill about 4 frames with comb and honey, last weekend. I think this is more than bearding, they don't have a ball at the entrance now, they are all mostly on the outside of the top deep and the top. I use 2 deeps also. We have been having REAL hot weather, 100 yesterday, 104 and 110 last weekend, but my other hive is acting normally. There are a few on the wall of the bottom deep, around the entrance, but that's it.
I am thinking now, it's not swarming....they would have been gone already and there is no loud roaring sound. I guess they are just overheated and maybe the ants are trying to take advantage since there are less bees in the hive.
Even though they haven't filled the super on there yet, would it help to add another? Even though I would have a hard time getting the top cover off, because it is covered with bees..........


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## Beewildered61 (Apr 5, 2012)

Well, I figured out what the problem is, and it is not good. It looks like small hive beetles have infested the hive badly. The ants are after the honey and such, but the beetle larva are all in the top deep box and seem like some in the bottom deep. How can I get rid of them and keep the bees? there are worms all over..... I have the hive taken apart out there now, so any fast advice would be appreciated....


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## Beewildered61 (Apr 5, 2012)

Hive was a total loss  the queen was dead or gone, not many bees left.... I took the frames out and just tossed them on the grass, hopefully the bees and ants will clean it up some....


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## julysun (Apr 25, 2012)

I use Mason Jars half filled with Sugar/water/Boric Acid in one, peanut butter sugar syrup and Boric Acid in the other. I bore/punch small holes in the top of these jars and set them down on the ant 'horde' trail. They prove more attractive than the defended hives and the acid will kill the colony in about two/three days, also the bees cannot get at the bait."Roach Proof" is Boric Acid and is carried in most grocery stores.
This is discussed elsewhere on this forum.


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## Jaseemtp (Nov 29, 2010)

julysun how much boric acid are you using? I am having a horrible time with ants, they are the tiny orange ones. I have had a few hives abscond because of them. Yesterday I went out to find tanglefoot to put on the legs of my hive stands and had no luck. So I used axel grease on the legs and it stopped them for now but I am afraid once it hardens in the sun the ants will be right back.


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

This is the only thing that worked for me. We have those stubborn Argentine ants. The high temp bearing grease doesn't harden. You just have to touch it up once a month to keep the debris off.

http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...ctually-Works!&highlight=ant+proof+hive+stand


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## thenance007 (May 25, 2011)

I sprinkle a barrier of baking soda around my hive and the ants won't cross it. Has to be renewed after a rain, but by then the ants might have gone elsewhere. Worked great when I had a big problem with the tiny black ants. Needs to be a solid line of baking soda. Very cheap!


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## julysun (Apr 25, 2012)

Zapata I use a 1:1:1 solution Boric Acid: Water: Sugar( well enough water to make a liquid mix). I think M. Bush adds grape jelly to his mix, you might look that post up. Do a Google search for DIY ant bait and you will get more info. Also Wikipedia Boric Acid. I am not sure there is a silver bullet. I try a shotgun attack. (Never lose, never win, just fight fight fight). :lookout:


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## julysun (Apr 25, 2012)

Since my effort to control Crazy ants is ongoing I will report this. Texas A&M Univ. reports that there is at present;
"Effective products involved with the treatments are not readily available to the consumer. If you suspect your house or property is infested with these ants, call a professional pest control provider. After treatment, or when making multiple applications over time, piles of dead ants must be swept or moved out of the area in order to treat the surface(s) underneath.

**Note for Professional Pest Management Personnel: According to the Texas Department of Agriculture, the following products have received expanded use approval through a Section 18 Quarantine Exemption from the Texas Department of Agriculture (TDA) and the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) for the control of these ants. These are only available for use in counties with confirmed infestations of the Rasberry crazy ant. See product labels and supplemental labels for specific use directions: This exemption will expire on October 21, 2012.:
http://urbanentomology.tamu.edu/ants/rasberry.html

So, my problem with Crazy or Rasberry ants may not match your ant problem.
To date:
Tanglefoot is rapidly (one day) breached. TOTALLY covered!
Water Barrier; Works but is a pain and drowns bees. (not practical for one of two hives)
Oil barrier; Same as water.
Boric Acid; They drink the stuff like good wine and just keep coming.
TERRO; Bait and dry broadcast; under test today
Diatomaceous earth ; Under test today.
Best defense so far? Bees! They seem to be holding the fort BUT, if this fight does not come my way then I will abandon the site. (Further note, one, the TBH seems to have the biggest problem and is the weakest hive. The Lang seems stronger and less molested. Both were started with 3 lb packages this spring. Could be the ant fight.)

Results to date; Ants 7, me 0. :lookout:


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## Belewsboy (Jun 6, 2012)

I too have the ant problem. They appeared when I started feeding my smaller Russian hive. First it was the big red ants. They seem to be drawn to the top feeder. This is the one draw-back of a top feeder...at least for me. After the syrup is gone, there are sugar crystals in the reservoir and the ants are going for that. My hive stand is 4) 4 x 4's and 2) cross boards on which I set two hives. 
I placed a large amount of Diatomaceous Earth around the 4 x 4's. This seemed to take care of the big ants, but now the small ones have taken over with a vengance. Same thing, collecting in the reservoir. They tunnel under the piles of DE and climb the posts. I bought some Boric Acid, but I'm not sure how to draw the ants away from the feeders and get to the Boric Acid. I thought about feeding the bees with jar feeders, but this hive is sucking down a gallon of syrup in 4 hours...I need the large reservoir just for the volume. I've read a lot on Boric Acid and everyone has good results using it. I like the idea of attacking the ant's nest rather than a physical barrier like greasing the posts. I sure would appreciate some specific ways you guys use Boric Acid. I think this is the best approach. Might even try the granulated Amdro...gotta do something.


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## julysun (Apr 25, 2012)

To review most of the method often cited in post on this Forum, One part Boric Acid, one part sugar, one part grape jelly, one part water (may need a little extra water to make a syrup). I make one quart and mix it with a small mixer in a 1/4 inch drill until it is a smooth syrup. I use styrofoam coffee cups with lid with 1/8 inch holes several) drilled in the lid (keeps the bees out). Pour about one inch or two of the syrup in the cup, cover tightly with the drilled lid. You have the bait thusly. Place in the runs of the ants. In about two to three days you should see the ants thin out and finally go away. EXCEPT CRAZY ANTS! They just keep coming, but, they prefer the syrup to the bee defended hive. 
Good luck and keep us posted! opcorn:


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## kincade (Feb 3, 2011)

julysun said:


> To date:
> Tanglefoot is rapidly (one day) breached. TOTALLY covered!
> Water Barrier; Works but is a pain and drowns bees. (not practical for one of two hives)
> Oil barrier; Same as water.
> ...


Be aware that both boric acid and DE take some time to work. DE is quicker for me but will not eliminate the colony unless you apply it directly. Boric works to eliminate the colony over time as they bring it back into their home. In fact, terro IS boric acid mixed with sugar water. Both will kill bees so be careful with application.


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## julysun (Apr 25, 2012)

Thanks Kincade, will be careful!


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## buzz abbott (Mar 6, 2012)

kincade said:


> Both will kill bees so be careful with application.


Will boric acid be brought back to the hive or does the bee that gets into it die in the field?


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## kincade (Feb 3, 2011)

buzz abbott said:


> Will boric acid be brought back to the hive or does the bee that gets into it die in the field?


It depends on the delivery method I suppose. Boric is not a fast 'knockdown' killer. 

Most often the boric acid is mixed with sugar water (as with Terro ant bait) which the ants carry back to their nest. The idea is that it WONT kill them quickly so that they can bring lots of it into their nest. If a bee can get in the sugar water baited with boric then they too would bring it back to their hive (especially this time of year when there is a dearth in many areas). I have no idea what the level of kill would be but you would no doubt lose some bees over time.

I use the boric bait stations (identical to the terro but homemade) every spring in my home when the ants start to emerge and it has worked exceptionally well. By many reports the ants switch to a more protien oriented diet partway through the season so peanut butter, sugar water, and boric acid may work better in the fall.

Also, be aware that boric is extremely toxic to dogs/cats/etc. So make sure these stations are out of reach from pets and young curious hands.


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## julysun (Apr 25, 2012)

Kincade

Like the man said, Candy is dandy but liquor (Boric acid liquor) is quicker!


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## BOYZNUS (May 20, 2012)

The ants that I am having a problem with are very, very small black ants. Maybe "grease" ants? They don't seem to be a masive invasion, but are so very tiny, and they are traveling up into the second deep. I only see about 10 or 12 at at time. The bees don't seem to be interested in them as they travel by them. Will try DE and see if it does any good.


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

BOYZNUS said:


> The ants that I am having a problem with are very, very small black ants. Maybe "grease" ants? They don't seem to be a masive invasion, but are so very tiny, and they are traveling up into the second deep. I only see about 10 or 12 at at time. The bees don't seem to be interested in them as they travel by them. Will try DE and see if it does any good.


Those small black ants in my neck of the woods are Argentine ants that over ran three of my starter hives. DE, Amdro, cinnamon and the like didn't work at all against these little devils. Do what I described in my previous post #12. It really works.


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## dfortune (Aug 10, 2012)

I dont know what kind of ants i got, but yall sure as heck dont want em. They cover every square inch of over an acre. Fast little bugars too. Very tiny mounds all over the place so you cant really poison em. Dead bees all over the front of my hives from ant attacks. Eventually they got so bad i had no other choice but to move my hives. Thankfully they only inhabit dry sandy areas. I dont know how many hives you got but you could put them on stands with legs in some oil.


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## G'ville beek (Jul 2, 2012)

Well that sounds like alot of ants, but I can only tell ya what works for me. This is a method used in the Biodynamic world, Gather yourself a bunch of ants, roast them in a metal pan over an open wood fire (outdoors) get yourself a mortar and pedestal and grind them for an hour, making a nice fine powder, sprinkle the powder over the area you want to deter the ants. Ants no more, you will have to reapply from time to time and this should be done between Sept 13th 9:00am and Sept 15th 5:00pm. This is called ashing. The time frame stated is when you want to prepare the ash and apply.


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## julysun (Apr 25, 2012)

julysun said:


> Since my effort to control Crazy ants is ongoing I will report this. Texas A&M Univ. reports that there is at present;
> "Effective products involved with the treatments are not readily available to the consumer. If you suspect your house or property is infested with these ants, call a professional pest control provider. After treatment, or when making multiple applications over time, piles of dead ants must be swept or moved out of the area in order to treat the surface(s) underneath.
> 
> **Note for Professional Pest Management Personnel: According to the Texas Department of Agriculture, the following products have received expanded use approval through a Section 18 Quarantine Exemption from the Texas Department of Agriculture (TDA) and the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) for the control of these ants. These are only available for use in counties with confirmed infestations of the Rasberry crazy ant. See product labels and supplemental labels for specific use directions: This exemption will expire on October 21, 2012.:
> ...


Update; Ants 7 me 1

I needed to feed a weak TBH but every time I put a feeder in the hive ants just swarmed the hive. I got a chicken water can and hung it with a rope from a pine tree, the ants took it over in mass in 1/2 hour. I swung the can with thin wire from a flower pot hanger about 20 feet in front of the two hives. Ants in 15 minutes swarmed down that wire and covered the water station. So I put a Perky Pet ant guard (http://www.shop.krusefeed.com/images/1314912942753-865752538.jpeg) in the support wire, Presto! ants blocked! Bees feeding with little fighting. I did fill the water trough with marbles for the bees to walk on. That was noon Yesterday, noon today the bees are still sucking it up and the ants are still blocked. :applause:


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## Kritterbee (May 8, 2012)

a much safer product to eliminate ants is to slice cucumber's and place at each leg (if hive is on a stand) or simply placed around the base of your stand. Ants hate the smell and will avoid the area entirely. Also, if you can locate the ant nest (hill) get some peppermint candies and crush them up, then sprinkle a few chips onto the top of the ant hill. you do not have to uncover the hill. the ants will take the chips down to feed the babies which kills the brood, hence, no more ants - most chemicals simply allow the ants to relocate into another section of the yard - peppermint kills the brood and ants that consume the candies - ants eliminated.


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## TheRatLover (May 13, 2012)

I have yet to see any bees near my cups of boric acid solution - even when a lid happens to come off. I use this recipe: 1 cup water, 2 cups sugar and 2 tablespoons boric acid. I locate plastic (yogurt/cream cheese) containers full of this boric solution 2-3 feet from each hive. Just like Julysun said, "They just keep coming, but they prefer the syrup to the bee defended hive."

-Lori


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## BOYZNUS (May 20, 2012)

These ants are so small. and there isn't alot at a time, the bees don't seem to notice them. They ants alomst seem to be wanders.


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## julysun (Apr 25, 2012)

Boyznus' that is exactly what Napoleon said at Waterloo! 

Seriously, I don't seem to have a problem unless I am feeding. So, I am feeding at a distance from the hives. That may come with it's own problems, we'll see.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

If I had a feeder that was 100% beeproof I would mix sugar water, peanut butter and frontline for the ants. Someone was doing it for yellow jackets - only using tunafish and frontline. (in a cat/dog proof feeder trap) It is of course VERY poisonous to bees, small children, dogs and cats.

For the moment I am counting my lucky stars. My water bins under the old stand have screening over to keep most of the bees out, and are large enough to keep most of the ants out as long as I don't let any weeds grow up next to the pallet platform and make a bridge.


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## SRBrooks (Jun 24, 2012)

I'm with TheNance007. An exterminator told me that ants will not cross a line of baby powder. Diatomaceous earth works the same. I use baby powder when it seems the ants just won't give up. Baking soda would work the same way.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

I'll be testing that baby powder in a couple of places today (front porch cat food dish sounds likely - cinnamon bombed.)


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