# Going Plastic



## My-smokepole (Apr 14, 2008)

One big problem I have seen is not enough wax on the plastic. So they did not want to pull it out unless it is on a strong flow.


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## bushpilot (May 14, 2017)

I like the wood frames with plastic foundation. Plastic frames warp a lot, at least in my limited experience with them.


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## tech.35058 (Jul 29, 2013)

following


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Why are you calling a Hoffman frame, used tens of millions of times over with few complaints that I have heard, "nasty"?


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## Kamon A. Reynolds (Apr 15, 2012)

Wood frame plastic foundation. Coat with additional wax or get it double coated


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## robirot (Mar 26, 2017)

odfrank said:


> Why are you calling a Hoffman frame, used tens of millions of times over with few complaints that I have heard, "nasty"?


Just cause they make a lot of extra work, sibce you always have huge ammounts of propolis all over. With wood frames these add up until the last frame doesn't fit propper and u have to scrape it all off. Also you always need some force to break up the block of frames, soecially at the furst controll in spring. A lot more frames break compared to spacing pins and those doesn't need any force to seperate.

But back to topic, most vote for wooden frames, sounds fine to me, Acon or Man Lake foundation?


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## bushpilot (May 14, 2017)

Mann Lake works fine for me. Have read that Acorn is good, not tried it yet.


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## My-smokepole (Apr 14, 2008)

Acorn is good I still add wax.


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## Kamon A. Reynolds (Apr 15, 2012)

Acorn is THE stuff


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## Fivej (Apr 4, 2016)

I have only been at it a couple of years but I prefer the wood frames. The all plastic do warp and My bees like to build a lot of burr comb on the plastic frames. Others have said that they don't have that problem. Mine also do not draw them as fast and adding extra wax helps. Others have observed that the plastic frames have a lot of hiding places for small hive beetle. J


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## DanielD (Jul 21, 2012)

Tennessee's Bees LLC said:


> Acorn is THE stuff


I agree if it' extra wax. It was always drawn out without issues or hesitation last year, 700 frames. Haven't used plastic frames and never intend to. It doesn't sound appealing. You will enjoy just snapping them in a grooved top and bottom board. Easiest way to go. They have a bit of wax buildup on one long edge of the plastic that goes into the groove, which may be a little hindrance if you are snapping them in when they are cold and it's a 3/32" groove. I have sometimes scraped the edge before inserting.


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## Marti (Jun 29, 2014)

Mann Lake frames Acorn foundation


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## JConnolly (Feb 21, 2015)

When I got back into beekeeping after a few years out I thought that the all plastic frame would be super convenient. 

I went back to wood frames and I use both plastic and wax foundation. The problem with the all plastic frames that I did not like was that endbars are not solid they have thin channels that trap bees and collect propolis. They also are not quite as strong as a wood frame.


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## robirot (Mar 26, 2017)

Ok, we got a german producer, who makes the frames without the groves.

I got some of them, but only used them in supers.

I now ordered 500 acorn foundations, hopefully no troubles with customs.


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## Ddawg (Feb 17, 2012)

I've been using Mann Lake wooden frames and Rite Cell foundation with no problems. I paint the foundation with extra wax and I prefer the black foundation for brood. (It makes it much easier to see eggs and larvae).


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## homegrown (Jul 24, 2016)

Mann lake wood frames with Acorn plastic foundation is just right


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## ProfessorBob (Jun 17, 2015)

robirot said:


> Atm I'm working straight wax foundation, but wiring/melting/soldering is just a pain and it is expensive, since i have to pay a company each year to make foundation out of my wax.
> 
> Also I'm atm going to move from German national hive to Langstroth and in this turn I was also thinking of going straight into using wax foundation.
> 
> ...


I've been using plastic Pierce frames for several years which I paint with beeswax. Haven't had any problem with them drawing comb. The key is painting the frames.


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

I go back and forth on this, but at present I am favoring plastic Pierco combo frames and foundations. I add a hand-applied coat of extra beeswax. My bees seem to draw them out eagerly, and they sure are easy to use.

I _want_ to like wood frames and plastic foundation, but I think they are harder to manage in 10-frame boxes where space is tight. 

I buy black Pierco frames for brood boxes and white for super/honey frames.

The only advantage that I see with wood is that they are easier to write on, and I leave myself lots of notes.

Nancy


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## westtnbeekeeper (Oct 26, 2015)

JConnolly said:


> When I got back into beekeeping after a few years out I thought that the all plastic frame would be super convenient.
> 
> I went back to wood frames and I use both plastic and wax foundation. The problem with the all plastic frames that I did not like was that endbars are not solid they have thin channels that trap bees and collect propolis. They also are not quite as strong as a wood frame.


:thumbsup:

Exactly what I was about to say... 

I have decent luck getting either frame drawn. As often mentioned... Under the right conditions bees just draw wax. Its what they do... Extra wax definitely helps them out if they are not driven to build.


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## DanielD (Jul 21, 2012)

Comparing the price and time, Acorn extra wax, including shipping, wasn't any different in price to buying another foundation and buying extra wax to put on yourself. And, you don't have to take the time to apply the wax. The only hangup would be the need to buy full 100 pc boxes of the Acorn directly from them. It does save money though to have it shipped to a business location. I had under a dollar, .93 ?, in medium sheets and around 1.19 in a deep last year, with shipping.


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## spunky (Nov 14, 2006)

wood frame plastic insert , I have had good luck with Mann lake rite cell; that being said I am rotating in a few all wax frame this yr in case I miss some swarm or supercedence cells so I can cut them out.

regards
Brad


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## robirot (Mar 26, 2017)

spunky said:


> wood frame plastic insert , I have had good luck with Mann lake rite cell; that being said I am rotating in a few all wax frame this yr in case I miss some swarm or supercedence cells so I can cut them out.
> 
> regards
> Brad


Well thats not an option for me, we got a whole mix of different bee races flying around, most F2 are allready getting quite aggressive, so i run all F1 and about 50 P queens for breeding purposes, from which i can select 5-7 queens for breeding.


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## DanielD (Jul 21, 2012)

spunky said:


> wood frame plastic insert , I have had good luck with Mann lake rite cell; that being said I am rotating in a few all wax frame this yr in case I miss some swarm or supercedence cells so I can cut them out.
> 
> regards
> Brad


Yes that is one negative about plastic, you can't cut out cells reliably, but I did do it once after several tries. I hope to graft this spring for splits.


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## rick54 (May 8, 2014)

I didn't see on the Acorn website, http://www.acornbee.com/foundations-2/ where you could order from them. Also, I didn't see anything mentioned about purchasing double waxed foundation. Do you have to buy from a distributor only?


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

rick54 said:


> I didn't see on the Acorn website, http://www.acornbee.com/foundations-2/ where you could order from them. Also, I didn't see anything mentioned about purchasing double waxed foundation. Do you have to buy from a distributor only?


You phone in and order from Nick.
Good product. I did 400 double wax deep this season. My first major plastic order in 48 years of beekeeping.


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## DanielD (Jul 21, 2012)

If you can't catch him on the phone easy, You can email Nick with specific needs, medium or deep, white or black,regular wax or heavy wax, and where to send it, and he can email you an invoice for you. Confirm and tell him to call you for payment info, and he will get to you. Did that last week and they may be here today. You need to order 1oo sheet boxes I think. You will save money having it shipped to a business location.


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## GmB (Sep 30, 2015)

agree with everyone re: wood frames w/ plastic (wax-covered) foundation.

I test plastic frames one year and ended up calling them "coffin frames". The frames were designed poorly - a space in the sides that bees would slip into and then get caught/entombed in and die. Regularly. And the bees didn't cluster on these frames or walk on them much.


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## rick54 (May 8, 2014)

My concern about the plastic frames was just supported by my recent purchase of a 5 frame nuc. On transferring the nuc frames to the permanent hive, I noticed one frame of black plastic foundation. One side was fully drawn and used by the bees. The other side was completely empty of any drawn cells, a totally empty side void of cells or wax coating! My five frame nuc just became a 4 1/2 frame nuc!


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## COAL REAPER (Jun 24, 2014)

rick54 said:


> My concern about the plastic frames was just supported by my recent purchase of a 5 frame nuc. On transferring the nuc frames to the permanent hive, I noticed one frame of black plastic foundation. One side was fully drawn and used by the bees. The other side was completely empty of any drawn cells, a totally empty side void of cells or wax coating! My five frame nuc just became a 4 1/2 frame nuc!


I have seen similar but not quite the same. I have just tried plastic frames this year, coated myself with extra wax. they get drawn out fine though. problem: on multiple hives I will see the queen lay up wood frames entirely and then only the side of the plastic frame that faces the wooden one. even if there is only one wooden frame in the box, she will lay only the plastic side opposing the wooden frame. I think queens are reluctant/refuse to walk around the edge of the plastic frame. anybody else seen this? I have drilled 7/16" holes in the four corners of some frames to see if it helps allowing queen to get to the other side.


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## DanielD (Jul 21, 2012)

I have had hundreds of heavy wax plastic foundation drawn without a hesitation last year. Sometimes one side of a frame may not get drawn for a while till they need it. You can switch places with the adjacent frame and see what happens. If you don't have a wax coating on it, there may be the issue. They may have used a thin wax coated foundation and one side didn't have enough to attract them to it. Plastic needs wax on it.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

We have found that with all of the AFB (coming from new beekeepers?), and the need for a prescription for Terramycin, that disposal of the contaminated plastic sheets has become an issue. With an efficient method to recover the wax from old comb, and sterilize the frames , being unable to reuse the plastic foundation is a liability. A recycled wedge top bar frame, with wiring intact, is easy to refoundation with wax, much easier than a grooved top bar frame for plastic foundation.

I believe the OP is in Germany, where it may not be possible to procurer any antibiotics. In the long run, we find the plastic frames undesirable by the bees, and not cost or environmentally effective. 

Crazy Roland


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

DanielD said:


> Comparing the price and time, Acorn extra wax, including shipping, wasn't any different in price to buying another foundation and buying extra wax to put on yourself. And, you don't have to take the time to apply the wax. The only hangup would be the need to buy full 100 pc boxes of the Acorn directly from them. It does save money though to have it shipped to a business location. I had under a dollar, .93 ?, in medium sheets and around 1.19 in a deep last year, with shipping.


Is the 20% premium for the heavy wax worth it? I am going to pull the trigger on 500 foundations thinking of trying his over ML. ML is 110 so acorn is more plus shipping costs on top of that. What makes Acorn so much better.


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