# bottling alternatives



## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

Hi,
I just bottled my second batch of wine (Still waiting on my meads to bubble some more). I've found the bottling process to be rather boring and seems to be a waste of time when I can finish off the 25-30 bottles in just a few months. This batch is ready to drink out of the carboy, so it seems kind of pointless to bottle in .75ml or 1.5L bottles. Whats some alternatives? I was thinking,

1. go from 5 gallon primary to 1 gallon secondaries then drink when done. 

Disadvantage- storage issues, would there be others?

2. bottle from secondary 5 gallon carboy to 1 gallon jugs.

Problem? - the only used gallon jugs I can get free have screw tops, will that work? 

3. Kegging is not possible at this time as I don't have the $$$. I would be interested in a rough cost estimate to get into it if anyone knows off the top of their head.

Anyway, suggestions?


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## Ben Brewcat (Oct 27, 2004)

Gallon jugs are fine, as are screwtops, but the question is do you drink a gallon in a reasonable amount of time? If you'd drink it off in a day or two it'd probably be fine. How long do you still like to finish off a half-bottle of wine sitting on the counter before it tastes off? Realize a gallon jug may oxidize (stale) faster with more surface area exposed to air after your pour a glass. Bigger bottles can ease bottling some, like the big ole cheap wine bottles (1/2 gallon?) readily available in restaurant recycling bins.


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## Sport (Dec 11, 2006)

Ah, yes. It's surprising how fast the mead goes. The idea is to brew it before you run out. If you brew a batch every three months, then you'll find that you always have some on hand. The other side is that mead, especially traditional mead, will improve with age. You will want a bottle that will stand up to time. I have some bottles that are ten years old. I crack one once a year, just to see. Haven't been disappointed yet. 

Another thing to do is have friends help with the bottling. It doesn't make things go any easier, but it is more fun.


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## mattoleriver (Sep 20, 2003)

>(Still waiting on my meads to bubble some more).

I'm a little confused by your comment about the bubbles. Are you referring to bubbles comming through an airlock on a fermenter or are you waiting for a sparkling mead to carbonate in the bottle? If you are making a sparkling mead use ONLY pressure appropriate bottles! Kegs are great for making sparkling meads. 
You should be able to start kegging for around $150-$175...that assumes one keg, a picnic (cobra) tap and no refrigeration. Extra Cornies will run $20+/each; taps and shanks will run $30+/each; refrigeration can cost darn near anything from free to $$$$.
George


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## Sport (Dec 11, 2006)

I was lucky enough to find a soda distributer here that had hundreds of 5 gal cornies. I guess they aren't allowed to use them any more, so she gave me as many as I wanted. I got 10 kegs for two bottles of mead as a thank you. 

I don't use the kegs for mead, though, because I prefer mead non carbonated, and if it is just sitting, mead will disolve the CO2.


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## Ben Brewcat (Oct 27, 2004)

> 10 kegs for two bottles of mead


Dang that's a smokin' deal! With extras laying around you can still use them for long-term storage; they needn't be under pressure in my experience if they're good sealers. For those interested: after sanitizing I fill with water (full full; every bit of air I can get out, I do). Then under low pressure CO2 drain the water out the "out" post. This purged vessel then receives the mead at the last racking, in through the "out" tube. Connect the out disconnect to the end of your racking tubing, and open the burp valve in the (sealed) lid. The mead fills in gently under a blanket of CO2, displacing it is it fills. That way there's negligible contact to air, you can bump the keg down the stairs, bang it in alongside it's siblings and forget it (or try to) for years. You can also hook up the CO2 every few months and pour a tiny little taster right there in the basement without opening the mead. If you want to dispense without carbonating, put the keg up on something and have the faucet well below the bottom of the keg. A couple pounds CO2 to get it started, then dial the CO2 down to a bare minimum. As the siphoning action of dispensing reduces head pressure the CO2 will replace the mead but not at enough pressure to dissolve significant CO2.

Can anyone tell I love these things?


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## mattoleriver (Sep 20, 2003)

Ben,
do you give your kegs an initial blast of CO2 to set the seal in the lid? Are you then able to leave the keg at a very low level of pressure without losing the seal on the lid and also without carbonating the mead? 
On kegging still meads: Do you have any thoughts on pressurizing/serving with nitrogen to prevent carbonation. Would there be any ill effects on mead in a nitrogen system?
Thanks
George


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## Ben Brewcat (Oct 27, 2004)

> do you give your kegs an initial blast of CO2 to set the seal in the lid?


I used to, and that's certainly the conventional wisdom. It doesn't hurt, but the CO2 will dissolve into solution shortly leaving a neutrally-pressured keg. Then as temperatures fluctuate and atmospheric pressure bobs up and down, if the keg was a slow-leaker it may burp a bit in or out as pressure equalizes, so the initial "sealing" pressure IMO isn't effective. A keg will burp or it won't. This illustrated the importance of keeping the original posts, poppets, etc. with their parent keg when cleaning multiple kegs at the same time. I have a system (of course) that works well if anyone's interested.



> Are you then able to leave the keg at a very low level of pressure without losing the seal on the lid and also without carbonating the mead?


Yes, but not because of the pressure (see above). Any CO2 pressure will dissolve into mead over time. The tiny amount to seat a lid is not a noticeable amount of carbonation (measured in volumes CO2, you'd have to put at least a third of a keg of gas (.3 volumes) into the mead to perceptibly carbonate I would think). I am able to leave kegs sit without the pressure, but I am pretty conscientious about maintaining gaskets, keeping parts with their correct kegs and such.



> Do you have any thoughts on pressurizing/serving with nitrogen to prevent carbonation. Would there be any ill effects on mead in a nitrogen system


Great idea. I don't mess with nitrogen personally, but it works great. Actually the beeks who got me started with old donated equipment are even bigger beer and wine geeks than I (yeah, I know  ); they push wines and meads with nitro all the time and it works great. Be aware that beverage "nitro" is actually a blended gas with CO2, so you still need to use low pressure so the CO2 portion of the blend does not dissolve into your mead (nitrogen dissolves very reluctantly into solution which is why we use it, but they need CO2 in the gas to keep the CO2 that carbonated that stout from leaving solution into the headspace to equilibrate, leaving flat beer). 

My $.02 would be if you have a nitro system already, by all means use it. However the significant expense of regulators, tanks, etc for a dedicated nitro draft setup just for draft still meads would be prohibitive for most of us. The gravity-siphon with CO2 displacement I describe above works great for me and it works with my existing system. One could even wait until the flow slows on that system, then hook up CO2 and hit it with just enough that it's not a vacuum-seal and pour until it slows again. On the other hand, there's a distinct pleasure to be had in the neat toys, which draft systems are especially suited to accumulating







.


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## mattoleriver (Sep 20, 2003)

I don't usually want a full keg worth of sparkling mead but I do enjoy a little bit every now and then. The really easy answer, at least if you already have a CO2 system, is the Carbonater. http://www.liquidbread.com/carb.html
The caps are outrageously expensive for a cheesy little piece of plastic but they do work really well for carbonating small amounts of mead. I've used mine to add sparkle to all kinds of liquids---mead, water, tea, orange juice, etc. A word of warning: not everything benefits from added bubbles!
George


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## Ben Brewcat (Oct 27, 2004)

Those are also nice for draft line maintenance. Fill a 1-liter PET bottle with cleanser or sanitizer and put on one of those caps. Then screw a GAS flare-threaded disconnect onto your draft line. Attach the sanitizer bottle and simply squeeze to send cleanser or sanitizer through to the faucet. Then do the same with a hot-water rinse.


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## nursebee (Sep 29, 2003)

It sounds like you drink it fast enough I would just use your siphon tubing as a straw. Very easy and cheap...


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

The siphon tube works well as a straw at bottling, but I do prefer to enjoy it in the easy chair. 

I would still want to put a few bottles back from time to time, just not 25 per batch. Perhaps if it takes between 1-2 weeks to drink a gallon, I could divy up a gallon into decanters and other containers to keep the exposure down when I open a gallon jug.

For the bubbles, I meant bubbles appearing at the surface of the mead in the carboy. Nothings been coming out of the airlock, as far as I can tell, for a long time. I don't really want to use sulfites, so I'm waiting for cold stabilization. Or can I just keep on bubbling for eternity? One was a champagne yeast the other was, Lavlin D47, I think. There not ready to drink either way. So I'm in no hurry to bottle. It kind of takes the fun out of the straw method if its not ready to drink

[ January 29, 2007, 08:01 AM: Message edited by: MichaelW ]


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## markalbob (Jan 31, 2007)

look up a vinator for cleaning bottles, and a bottle tree--great timesavers....I'd go for that long before I decided to just drink oxidided wine from gallon jugs, but if you happen to drink them fast enough, or not care when they get stale, you can certainly do the gallons. 

Kegging will cost what it costs--depending on what you get and from where, you can probably be resourceful and scrounge used stuff to get started with a single keg, including CO2, for under $100. At "catalog prices" expect closer to $200.


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

Wow, that Vinator looks like a good thing, cheap too. Tell me more. Do you use bleach water for sanitizer? Don't you have to rinse the sanitizer afterwards? 

Right now I'm filling each bottle with bleach water, letting it sit for 1/2 hr or so then pour it out and rinse. I don't have a bathtub or other large container to soak everything in. The vinator looks like a good water saver too.


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## markalbob (Jan 31, 2007)

I usually rinse with one-step, a "no-rinse" cleaner. Other times, I do bleach all bottles, stick them on the tree, and when done go back through again with a quick rinse after replacing the bleach with Kmeta to sulfite the bottles--it's not as good at sterilizing, but it neutralizes and leftover bleach and the small amount of sulfite remaining isn't enough to give a strong sulfite taste at bottling.

And yes, I'm very, VERY pleased with my vinator.....30 bottles or so sanitized and hanging on the tree in about 10 minutes....


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

cool I'm sold. How about this model

http://www.ebrew.com/miscellaneous_equipment/bottle_rinser.htm#bottle_rinser

Consists of a clear plastic bowl (reservoir)
and a manual-pump solution streamer.
at ~$15


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## markalbob (Jan 31, 2007)

pretty sure that's the one I have. They can be a bit messy, but absolutely less so than the "tub-o'-bleach". Do consider the bottle tree it should have an attachment to "sit" on--mine sits on top of a 90-bottle tree rack of plastic, so you can do some serious cleaning. Very nice for doing 2 5-gallon batches in beer bottles in one day.


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## markalbob (Jan 31, 2007)

oh, one more note: The reservoir works fine with about 2 cups of fluid, so much cheaper than a tub of sanitizer, too.....


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## Aspera (Aug 1, 2005)

I have never used wine bottles that do not take a crown cap of some sort. Is it more work /expense to buy a corker and use corks? Is it worth it? My mead has done well in crown caps for 3+ years.


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## Sport (Dec 11, 2006)

A cheep corker is about $15-25. They aren't that good, but do a pretty good job. It works like a crown capper, but it pushes the cork through a funnel to fit it in the neck of the bottle. The one that I have is about $120 and really cool. It compresses the cork and then pushes it into the bottle. Much mechanical advantage and being a standing unit makes it a pleasure to cork. I also like when I give bottles away they look a bit more professional.


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## Ben Brewcat (Oct 27, 2004)

There's little benefit to corks over caps IMO except for the aesthetic value. The gradual oxidation over time that winers crow about so stridently is useful only for a very few wines, and almost no meads. That said, I cork most of my wines and use synthetic corks with a floor corker. But meads I do in 12-oz crowns. 

If you do cork, consider renting a quality floor corker like Sport describes; the hand ones, though inexpensive, are pretty frustrating if you're bottling more than a gallon or so.


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## Sport (Dec 11, 2006)

See, and I feel that the aesthetic value is important when drinking mead.







Sure a cap is fine, but the POP when you uncork just screams that joy is on the way. Sorry, I'm at work and would love to be home sipping mead right now.


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## markalbob (Jan 31, 2007)

Sport, no offense, and I should point out I will be getting a corker myself shortly, but the primary advantage of a corker is "snob appeal"....different aesthetics.

Anyone on a budget might as well start with a good capper, they can cap wine and they can move to corking later if they want to but you cannot cork sparkling wine or beer with most corkers....


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## Sport (Dec 11, 2006)

Oh, sure. No offence taken. I agree that it's the aesthetics. I just take a likeing to the snob appeal. It's the only thing snobbish about me.


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