# Large scale nuc production in northern loccation



## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

Jens, this thread may get more responses in the "queen breeding" sub-forum, rather than the "commercial forum".


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## LSPender (Nov 16, 2004)

customers, customers, customers!!!!!!!!!


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

The fastest way to get comb drawn is to undersuper during a flow. If you open feed, are you feeding ALL the bees within eight kilometers? If you are isolated enough to be just feed yours, open feed by all means. I find that bees will take sugar water from a zip lock bag in the hive with a couple small slits in the top side, much earlier than from other feeders because they lay on the top bars and the clusters heat keeps the nectar warm and useable. When comb is drawn, set them out to be robbed out and have fresh foundation on the colonies. But that only works when there is very little natural flow. I am sure I have tolds you nothing you don't already know. Good luck with your enterprise. I would like to develope that business too here in my northern locale.


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## JensLarsen (Mar 14, 2007)

Adrian,
Nope, I like to focus on the large scale effects and the business side of nuc production.

LS,
So important, I almost forgot. In the fall I'll start marketing and hopefully building a waiting/prebooked list. Filling the orderbook early also benefits planning. I guess pricing can be adjusted as well based on interest, possible discounts for early orders.

Vance,
You are right, hive top feeder does not work as well as patties or zippies. I think the cost of feeding the neighbors is minor compared to the labor of opening, and disturbing, the nucs. I'll make some rims so I can feed sugar patties/moist sugar on paper inside for the ladies to use during night and open feed in intervals. Protein patties are costly over here. Overfeeding and then robbing is objectible for many but I am fine with the practice if done in moderation.

It is dawning on me that comb must be built the year before. Maybe I'll figure out a way to put some colonies in "swarm mode". Swarms build comb in a massive way.


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

You could make a bunch of singles to overwinter. Sell them as late as possible in the spring, with the idea that you are doing it at a time when you can raise your own queens. A single if it is pretty strong can be divide into three parts. One with the winter queen , others will get queen cells. If both get mated you sell another nuc , the last one you keep for yourself to rebuild up to strength for the winter. If your area is relatively good, you will not have to feed going into winter. Otherwise feed. Open feeding is a very quick method if done right. I would only worry about neighbours within 3 km. Why bother with putting dry sugar on the hives? Now you've just lost your time saving open feeding advantage.

Keep some mini nucs, like the Apidea's going in the spring for the second nucs queen cells that do not get mated. That way you have a laying queen that goes into it.

Yes you'll need comb built the year before, but with this method you should have 3 frames for every nuc. Now you may have to get them to build a fourth one in the spring or perhaps the year before they went to two boxes in which case you'll have plenty of frames to choose from.

There is a beekeeper that follows this plan one valley over. He sells to nucs from every hive perhaps a queen , two or three from every hive and he lets them build back uo for winter. Customers get new or newer frames in the nucs. No moving bees to a honey flow or pollination. No big trucks or forklifts, no honey house. He does this as a sideline, but it is profitable and a serious enterprise. The advantages are numerous. I'm sure spring is crazy busy, but summer is slower. No big investments. No honey to pull or extract. Cash in the spring when you need it most.

Jean-Marc


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

In my climate I find I need to overwinter nucs to sell them and they are usually not strong enough until mid May. Sometime sooner, but you don't want to promise things to customers that happen "sometimes". You want a fairly sure thing. The problem is everyone wants them in mid or early April.


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## doc25 (Mar 9, 2007)

You might want to try a frame exchange program where you sell a nuc with say 5 frames and the buyer gives you 5 drawn frames in exchange.


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## WI-beek (Jul 14, 2009)

Nucs are comb drawing machines. You need to install frames of brood, honey and pollen anyway to make the nuc, let them draw the other comb, they are practically in swarm mode already, are they not?


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## mythomane (Feb 18, 2009)

Drawn comb is the secret. They will fill it out fast if it is ready.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Michael Bush said:


> In my climate I find I need to overwinter nucs to sell them and they are usually not strong enough until mid May. The problem is everyone wants them in mid or early April.


Kind of a puzzling statement considering the fact that the major surplus honey flow (in the north) dosen't usually begin until June.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Kind of a puzzling statement considering the fact that the major surplus honey flow (in the north) dosen't usually begin until June. 

What is puzzling about it? People want their nucs in April. The nucs aren't usually booming until mid May, although some of them, some years, are booming in April, it's not something I can count on. Our flow typically starts the second week of June.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

I guess I don't expect ours to be "booming" until mid to late May, that still gives you a month ahead of the flow. Perhaps these customers need to be educated a bit better about the difference between the early April time frame of a package installation and the later time frame of a strong nuc.


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## WI-beek (Jul 14, 2009)

"Perhaps these customers need to be educated a bit better about the difference between the early April time frame of a package installation and the later time frame of a strong nuc."

I think its happening slowly but surely. As people buy overwintered nucs and have better success than there buddies packages, the demand for them will grow. Maybe Im wrong but I think most folks are smart enough to understand the concept and that it is more sound than a package with a southern queen of unknow quality. Northern beeks who supply the packages from the south for some easy quick cash need to get on board and change there game as well. Im totally for it and I am preparing to winter some nucs with new mated queens whos mothers proved themselves last winter.


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

I think mike is right and it has nothing to do with education. People wait all winter for their bees, by spring they will jump at the first chance for bees and most often that is an April package. If a Nuc is available at that time of year, even better.

If I were buying a nuc for this area I would want it last week of April or first of May, that is when the apples bloom. IMO later then that is too late unless a person is in a bind to get bees before the next season.

I picture sweden as a tough location to over winter a Nuc. For this venture to be successful you would have to over winter them, starting them in the spring of the season you want to sell them wouldn't work. If you are buying local queens their availability would be too late.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Maybe there is a misunderstanding about the definition of a nuc. Here is what it means to me: made up in late March through the first week in April with 3 frames bees and brood and a cell. By mid May they should be 6 to 8 frames of bees and brood and ready to explode. Feed as needed then start putting on boxes, so easy a caveman could do it  .


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## doc25 (Mar 9, 2007)

The idea of early nucs goes on here as well. Early splits too. My biggest mistake has been doing things too early 'cause the book says split in late April, early May. The first time I bought bees I couldn't get them early enough, this year I learned a bit and couldn't get packages late enough! The last date for packages was the beginning of May (... but they showed up early, at the end of April). Maybe it has something to do with the long winter, we figure if we split in April some of the snow might dissapear quicker!

This year I did June (end of June) splits with queens and they are doing fine. If they make the winter they will be producing next year. Didn't you guys know this is next year country.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

My nucs are made up the winter before, not that spring. I wouldn't have any queens until June and that's too late for nucs.


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

doc25 said:


> The idea of early nucs goes on here as well. Early splits too. My biggest mistake has been doing things too early 'cause the book says split in late April, early May. The first time I bought bees I couldn't get them early enough, this year I learned a bit and couldn't get packages late enough!


This was a terrible year for bees, we bought from two different suppliers and both pushed our delivery dates forward 4 weeks. Didn't end up getting them until the last week of June.... It is going to be a tough winter on them.


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

If they want extra drawn comb for overwintered nucs made from summer splits, that's a seperate operation that requires dedicated colonies just to make drawn comb. At least that's what I'm gleening from my readings.


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## Ted Kretschmann (Feb 2, 2011)

Michael, you state you are making the nucs up the winter before??? We have split bees late into December but this is Alabama. The queens came from Hawaii or did come from Australia. So what are you sticking in your wintertime nucs during the dead of winter for queens?? Must be kind of rough making up nucs with potential snowfall on the ground. TED


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Sorry, I should have said before the winter before that spring... 

No they are not made up in winter, they are made up in July or August or they are combined from mating nucs when the bees lose interest in raising queens.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Glad you cleared that up and allowed me to stop scratching my head. Thought maybe you were priming us for a sequel "The Improbable Beekeeper"


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## Ted Kretschmann (Feb 2, 2011)

Jim, If he was able to do that, I would be going and sitting in his classes. I am glad he clarified that. Michael, keep up the good work. TED


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## WI-beek (Jul 14, 2009)

"The Improbable Beekeeper"

Thats a great title. I bet it would sell.


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