# I think I'm in trouble guys, help



## SimonPeter (Feb 28, 2016)

I'm new, first time this season. I took my hive body to a local beekeeper who filled it with frames of bees and and I thought a queen. We traveled 5 hours round trip. After a few days I realized there was no queen. My wife made the 5 hour trip again and came.back with a new queen. I followed all the instructions I could find to introduce her properly in her ezbz cage. I waited a week and checked yesterday, no eggs, no brood and I'm at a loss. What do I do now? My bees are 2 weeks without a queen. Can I order an italian queen online put in there? I'm sad, frustrated and a little scared. I've waited 35 years to do this and feel like a failure. I don't know what to do next, please help.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

You should be talking to your supplier.


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## Bees of SC (Apr 12, 2013)

Good morning Simon, Did you see a queen in the first group of bees you received? Was the bees and queen from the same hive? Did the frames have eggs and brood on them when you bought them? Some times it takes a week or so for the queen to start laying.....Same with a new queen...
Do you have a queen in the hive now?


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## twgun1 (Jun 26, 2015)

Is there someone, a beekeeper, who is local who could at least help you go through your hive to double check? Maybe this local bee keeper would sell you a frame of brood to buy you some time. 

Please hang in there.


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## rwlaw (May 4, 2009)

Hang in there, as bees of sc pointed out it might take a week or so for the queen to start laying. As a nubee and getting into a hive it's real easy to miss things. Queens can hide, eggs can be missed and the list goes on. Your best best bet is to post in the main forum exactly what you bought (nuc/package) and what you saw when you looked at the frames (did you have capped brood/drawn frames etc).


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## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

I strongly suggest to all new beekeepers that they get a marked queen seeing a queen is not always as easy as one thinks. In a newly assembles hive it quite frequently take some time for things to settle down and come together as one unit. You may have tried to introduce a new queen into a hive that already had one. creating more disarray, Although brood is a sure fire way to tell if a queen is present, it's absence does not necessarily indicate she is not. Add to that eggs are extremely small and can be difficult to see especially if they are in new comb. 
Take a deep breath. And go through your hive removing the outer frame first examine it carefully, there are usually few bees on that frame if you do not see the queen set that frame aside. You can do the same with the next frame too. this will give you ample room to remove the remaining frames inspect them well and place them back in the hive. there will be enough space between the frames to reduce likelihood of the queen running to the newly reinstalled frame. look every frame over good Having a friend look over your shoulder doubles the odds the queen will be spotted. Inspecting the frames on a sunny day with the sun over your shoulder lights up the frame well down into the cells making spotting eggs easier. as soon as you see eggs, brood, or the queen. put the hive back together and relax. 
Now, be aware that although most frequently you will find the queen on the frame that has the most bees. that is not always the case. you can search the entire hive at times and not find her. It is possible she may be on the wall of the box, and slip undetected to a frame after you have inspected it. 
Look the hive over well and then make a decision. odds are better than not that there is not a problem, and you are simply suffering from newbee jitters.


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## missybee (Sep 6, 2014)

We hardly ever see or look for our queen, we check for eggs, brood etc, if that is found we are happy. 

When we do want to find her, the best method for us is to take each frame look at it, put that frame into a different box, repeat until she is found. Sometimes I have looked at each framed x 4 before I find her. She can run fast and hide! I have also taken a picture of each frame (small hive) and found her in the photos when I could not find her on the frame.

Make sure you have the hive box you are inspecting is on a solid surface (like the lid) so she can not fall onto the ground and get hurt.


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## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

Welcome!


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

I would first talk with the supplier. The supplier that you have invested 10 hours of driving in getting what you have is the same person that actually has a good read on what you left with, amd what your instructions were. ...the rest of us are just guessing at what you have vs what you think you have and what you were told/instructed vs what you heard/remember


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

I don't understand what happened at the initial installation.

Did you purchase a package that was installed on undrawn frames and then transported 2 1/2 hours back to your home? Or did you purchase a nuc with five frames of drawn comb, at least some of which surely had brood in them in various stages, along with the laying queen?

If what you got was a "package" of bees (with a new-to-them queen in a cage) dumped into a new hive on new foundation, when the plan required then driving them home, I think that's a very strange thing for an experienced supplier to do. Why not just bring the package home and then install it there where there would be no danger of injury to the bees from the frames slapping around on the trip home.

If you bought a nuc, then there should have already been brood on those frames, in all stages of growth, along with their laying queen. (I would still have transported the nuc home in its nuc box and done the installation there when everybody had calmed down from the trip.)

What prior experience do you have checking for the signs of a laying queen, including eggs? Eggs can be very hard to see and it is an acquired skill, especially on new whitish comb or foundation. (Which is why I use black plastic in my brood boxes.)

I probably just understand what the circumstances of the initial install were,but it sounds very peculiar to me. In any case, I think your best solution is to find an experienced local beekeeper to come to your house and check for eggs and a queen. Find your nearest bee club and ask for some help. Then I would consider getting a mail-order queen, or buy a local one. You are nearing the end of the colony's tolerance for being queen-less, but not quite there yet. 

Your address says you are in Charleston, SC. This is a link to the the Charlestown bee club: https://sites.google.com/site/charlestonareabeekeepers/home I would start there.

Enj.


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## SimonPeter (Feb 28, 2016)

Thank you


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## stajerc61 (Nov 17, 2009)

Your supplier could have given you a virgin on the second go. She would have to get mated before she would begin laying. Welcome to the never ending struggle.


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## SimonPeter (Feb 28, 2016)

I guess I should have been a little more detailed. I'm very new at this. You guys are great and your responses are super helpful. Wow, what a forum. I took a brand new empty hive to the supplier where he filled it with frames of bees and there was supposed to be a queen in there but there wasnt......or something happened to her? There were no brood or eggs in there at all. I realized quickly there was no queen and introduced another in the ezbz. The ezbz is empty after a week so I know she got out. I will get someone locally to help me go through the hive and go from there, I'm just sad is all. It's been a lifelong deal to do this. Thank you all again for the help. I won't give up!


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

If you contact the local bee club, I'm betting that they will be able scare up someone to help you. I know my club would try to do that. (And I have gone out to new beekeepers' yards to help, on occasion. I remember well my first weeks of confusion!)

The idea of just dumping a bunch of bees (a "package") in a new box on what sounds like undrawn combs before a long drive home is just nuts! Particularly if there was a queen also released freely with the bees at the time. It's far too risky from mechanical injury due to the still-loose frames moving around during the drive. And a new queen in that scenario was at high risk from the beesnot accepting her. New queens are usually put in a cage, to become accustomed to their bees, slowly. Some people do do a "direct" release of a new queen, but not likely just before a long car trip.

Anyway, all is not lost, and the weekend is coming up so if you make contact with the club (there is also a state club, but I thought the local would be a faster contact) I think you'll have some answers, very soon. And likely find a local source of a new mated queen, if needed. So you'll be back in the "queenright" state soon. And you'll have done another important thing: connected with local beekeepers who will be the most useful source of help, information and advice. Even better than here on Beesource - though please stick around and continue to participate. 

You waited years for bees, so a few days more, with a good plan in place is nothing.

Enj.


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## SimonPeter (Feb 28, 2016)

So I'm pretty embarrassed buT i wanted to post the great end to my day. I got a beekeeper friend over after work and everycell in there had an egg. I had no idea how small they were. He also found the queen. I learned alot today and I wanted to say thanks for the outstanding advice on how to spot the eggs. It also helped tremendously when I took off the bee veil, i couldnt see as well though the dark screek front. I now know what to look for. We put on another box with frames and that was that.


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

Whatever happens hang in there buddy. Once word gets out that you're a beekeeper bees will find you. 

Ok...you are not an island. There is help right under your nose. 
https://sites.google.com/site/charlestonareabeekeepers/home

If CABA is anything like CEIBA (central eastern illinois bekeepers association) then you'll find a friend with experience and lots of bees. They're waiting. 



My story: Kept bees for 12 years in the good old days before varroa.(70's) I quit right when the mites arrived and had no clue until last spring. Last spring I thought maybe I'd get 4 bee hives started and hope one lives. Went to a CEIBA meeting in April, met a guy who lost a lot of his bees. He "hired" me to clean up his deadouts and paid me in bees and bee equipment. The bee association started calling me with swarm calls and cutout opportunities and before the summer was over I had 22. Lost 3 this winter. I bought two packages and those two kind of turned into dinks. Have had WAYYY better luck with bees I got locally. Do NOT drive 5 hours to get bees. They are closer than you think.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Its probably a good time of year to bring this up to all the new beekeepers starting their first hive this spring. My advice, once they are hived, is FIRST DO NO HARM. Aside from making sure they have plenty of feed, don't even think about pulling any frames and doing any sort of inspections for at least 2 weeks and then only to do a very brief check for sealed brood. You don't need to see the queen, you only need to know that she is doing her job. Forget all you may have read about doing full inspections. Unless you have something to inspect for, just leave them alone. Young queens are just starting to lay and the hive is in a very unsettled state. They need to not be disturbed as it isn't unusual for a hive to kill a perfectly good queen simply because they sense things are out of balance.


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## TalonRedding (Jul 19, 2013)

jim lyon said:


> Forget all you may have read about doing full inspections. Unless you have something to inspect for, just leave them alone.


VERY sound advice!


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## Fivej (Apr 4, 2016)

Welcome to the forum. I am a newbee too so I cannot give you any advice except to stress that it is VERY helpful to join a local club and have a mentor(s). Read all you can. There is a wealth of information here, in books and on the internet. Alls well that ends well!
PS If you haven't already, please learn about mites and other pests that will give you major trouble if you are not prepared


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## Steve_Hughes (Apr 19, 2016)

Tenbears said:


> I strongly suggest to all new beekeepers that they get a marked queen seeing a queen is not always as easy as one thinks. In a newly assembles hive it quite frequently take some time for things to settle down and come together as one unit. You may have tried to introduce a new queen into a hive that already had one. creating more disarray, Although brood is a sure fire way to tell if a queen is present, it's absence does not necessarily indicate she is not. Add to that eggs are extremely small and can be difficult to see especially if they are in new comb.
> Take a deep breath. And go through your hive removing the outer frame first examine it carefully, there are usually few bees on that frame if you do not see the queen set that frame aside. You can do the same with the next frame too. this will give you ample room to remove the remaining frames inspect them well and place them back in the hive. there will be enough space between the frames to reduce likelihood of the queen running to the newly reinstalled frame. look every frame over good Having a friend look over your shoulder doubles the odds the queen will be spotted. Inspecting the frames on a sunny day with the sun over your shoulder lights up the frame well down into the cells making spotting eggs easier. as soon as you see eggs, brood, or the queen. put the hive back together and relax.
> Now, be aware that although most frequently you will find the queen on the frame that has the most bees. that is not always the case. you can search the entire hive at times and not find her. It is possible she may be on the wall of the box, and slip undetected to a frame after you have inspected it.
> Look the hive over well and then make a decision. odds are better than not that there is not a problem, and you are simply suffering from newbee jitters.


Is there a way to mark her after the fact, or will that be too traumatic / annoying for the queen?
I wish that I had purchased a marked queen. It's only been a week, but I've yet to see my queen since she ate through the candy. Is there a way to mark her after the fact, or will that be too traumatic / annoying for the queen?


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## Steve_Hughes (Apr 19, 2016)

jim lyon said:


> Its probably a good time of year to bring this up to all the new beekeepers starting their first hive this spring. My advice, once they are hived, is FIRST DO NO HARM. Aside from making sure they have plenty of feed, don't even think about pulling any frames and doing any sort of inspections for at least 2 weeks and then only to do a very brief check for sealed brood. You don't need to see the queen, you only need to know that she is doing her job. Forget all you may have read about doing full inspections. Unless you have something to inspect for, just leave them alone. Young queens are just starting to lay and the hive is in a very unsettled state. They need to not be disturbed as it isn't unusual for a hive to kill a perfectly good queen simply because they sense things are out of balance.



I wish I had read this last week. I've had my first hive a week and have opened it four or five times already. I'll keep it closed for the next couple of weeks.


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## Bees of SC (Apr 12, 2013)

You can mark your queen at any time. Some people say that they mark their queens before mating. I wait till they are mated and laying eggs. When I sale a nuc I like to put them in a cage, the buyer can see the queen and she is protected for the ride.. 
You don't want to try an mark a queen unless you know how. Watch YouTube. At this point just look for brood, don't worry about the queen, she will be there....


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