# when to add pollen patties ?



## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

Pollen patties are added in the very late winter, or early spring. I am in northern NY and I add them around the third week in March. They are a brood stimulant, and if applied too early it can lead to problems when the extra amount of brood outstrips the available food resources in the late spring, when weather can be erratic. I put in very small quantities (about 3" x 3") at first. Once started I don't stop until reliable foraging weather has arrived in early May.

Enj.


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

For me in the spring everything revolves around the dandelion bloom. That usually happens here in mid to late-April. There are early pollen sources like the maple trees and others too. 
I figure I want to stimulate brood rearing about a month before the dandelion bloom so that I have decent populations of bees in colonies so that they can take advantage of the dandelion flow. This means put the pollen patties in around March 15.
Then hopefully by just before the time that the main flow happens I'm already splitting hives. I'm quite a few miles south of Canada.


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## NSBee (Dec 20, 2014)

thanks for the replies that helps alot


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## Fishmaster50 (Apr 30, 2015)

I am wondering when i should add pollen patties to the hive . should i put them on now or should i wait till jan or feb or even march ? 
Are we talking winter pollen pattys or ones you put on in spring to promote brood?


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## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

You don't want them in now, they should go in when the bees start brooding in the spring. We start spring patties when we see the first natural pollen which comes from hazelnuts around feb 10th. Once they start brooding I don't want them to run out of protein should we get a week of bad weather. I want at least half of our colonies up to summer strength by the time maples bloom in April, we get a strong premium for maple honey on the years where we get enough to harvest.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

NS, how heavy are your hives?


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## NSBee (Dec 20, 2014)

Ian said:


> NS, how heavy are your hives?


I can't give you an exact weight , the the main hives have at least 8 or so frames of honey/ syrup on the top super , not sure how much is in the bottom box , i have been feeding all summer lonn as we have had a bad drought here this year . the top frames are now covered in sugar bricks about 3 " deep . 

the nucs are all over the map , #1 nuc felt light when moving it , same with #2 nuc but both had stored in ther upper box , #3 nuc felt heavy and is the strongest by far , I put about 3" of sugar bricks on all 3 , so they should be ok for stores until i check them again in mid to late dec , when i will add more sugar bricks if needed .


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

Middle of February


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## Dave Warren (May 14, 2012)

Vance G said:


> Middle of February


Vance, I like your advice, but I have few stores of honey used sugar candy with honey b healthy in my upper feeders, so, depending on the year spring and the pollen on the maples varies from year to year, so rather than using a specific date, wouldn't be prudent to see when the buds are on the trees, and the activity of the hives before placing the patties in the hives?


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

I have chickens. One time I mentioned the bees where all over the chicken feed half of which is cracked corn. Somebody told me that was the time to add pollensub.
Cheers
gww


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## DerTiefster (Oct 27, 2016)

gww: that sounds like a targeted response, but it does rely upon the bees to tell you when _they_ feel a need for protein. It doesn't include a way for the beekeeper to anticipate a flow (like the maple flow mentioned by grozzie2 above). But it still sounds useful to tell you that, "Hey, the starting gun has sounded!" but you didn't hear it, and it's time to get moving.


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## spunky (Nov 14, 2006)

If you go to Randy Olivers site and read his work on pollen patties and types pretty interesting. I always put a small one on like hamburger size and do the mountain camp method for early winter. This has worked fine for me. It is my understanding that most plant pollen during the fall is of low quality so a early winter pollen patty helps restore " vitogellin " ( don't quote me here ) . I don't think the bees will overproduce brood they cant keep warm YMMV

regards
Brad


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## WesternWilson (Jul 18, 2012)

NSBee, bienvenue fellow Canuck, I am all the way across the country on the BC coast...we wrap in very late October, so I am surprised you were able to leave your wrapping till December. Here we get no snow of note so the bees often fly on warmish days all winter, and there is English Ivy pollen for them to gather on the better days. I put pollen sub patties on all winter, just in case, up on the top bars with the emergency candy rations. I also use a quilt box filled with fine wood shavings (hamster bedding) as we need moisture absorption as well as insulation here in the rainforest.

However, in my Master Beekeeper class we had our nutrition unit given by a bee nutrition specialist. He advocated, even in cold winter areas, using Krabby Patties, which included a protein component. 

Why not give some of your hives protein and some not and see if there is a difference?


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Whenever it is that you start (different times for different folks) don't stop until natural pollen is coming in.......... 
You want to build up you bees FOR the flow, not ON the flow...........


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## frogpondwarrior (Aug 2, 2016)

I have been wondering when to add patties. Aunt betty is close to my hardiness zone of 5b and has give me a time frame. Worried that we would put them on too soon or too late. Not by a day here or there but by a crippling amount. There is no way to tell the dandelion bloom date from year to year. How do you count back a month when you don't know the date. Then it dawned on me we have a built in barometer in this area. Robins...... last year they arrived late March early April and we had no spring. Then it rained and didn't stop until June. So my nukes didn't arrive until late June. The year before the Robins were here the first week of March and we had a good April and May was great. 
So when the Robins arrive we will be a day too late. Better a day than a weeks in either direction. Kind of a figure of speech but it gives me a plan. Thanks.


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

When I use them, I put them on closer to spring. Never early in the winter. For me, the bigger sin is putting them on when there is no source of natural pollen and then not replacing them once the bees begin to use them. Once you start, make sure you don't stop. It isn't like a snack in the fridge.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

Every area of the country will have different target dates to start feeding pollen patties. Timing also depends on your goals for the hives. 

I prefer to follow the "normal" cycle of colony build up in my area. I don't want to start adding pollen patties too early. Along with risking chilled brood if a cold front comes through, the colonies will be built up to swarm strength way to early for me. It's difficult enough controlling swarming without extending the time you have to deal with it before the main flow. 

If I do add pollen sub it will be about the same time that the early pollen becomes available naturally from Elm, Maple, etc. Pollen sub added at this point will bridge the gap when the bees have periods when it is too cold to fly. It is a supplement to what is already beginning to become available when there is flying weather. 

Now if I was more focused on earlier build up in preparation for splits or nucs or early Maple nectar as grozzie mentioned, I would feed a little earlier than the normal local cycle of naturally available pollen sources. But as others mentioned, once you start feeding you can't stop until the bees are gathering their own pollen on a regular basis.


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## DerTiefster (Oct 27, 2016)

Let me ask a question I've not seen asked before. Pollen is necessary for protein for development of the bodies of the brood. Early pollen feeding might induce more brood than the colony has pollen reserves to serve. In this case, the bees' development would suffer. But queens (a pre-requisite for swarms) require yet more protein than workers. Do the bees feed queens in preparation for swarms in preference to feeding the worker brood which needs to develop properly for colony survival? Or does a marginal protein situation tend to suppress swarming and queen cell development even in the presence of crowding? It could be, for instance, that crowding never occurs in the wild along with protein shortages, and that this off-normal and potentially beekeeper-induced event never needs to be part of the bees' genetic programming.

Michael


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## WesternWilson (Jul 18, 2012)

While adding candy/sugar prevents colony starvation, adding protein patties is really a tactic to deliberately encourage colony expansion earlier in the year than would otherwise be reasonable. There is no real reason to push that expansion unless you are driven by one of three reasons:

1. your big nectar flow comes well before the colony would reach max forager capacity on its own (ie. Oregon Maple in April here in the PacNW)
2. you want to push colony size so you can make big splits (probably selling one as a nuc) early in the spring, or rear a round of early queens
3. you want to push colony size so you can fill pollination contracts early in the year

If you are well served by the arc of unassisted bee development, you do not really need to feed protein in the spring, and indeed feeding lavishly means you must be very vigilant when it comes to swarming. Because feeding heavily drives the conditions that cause swarming.


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## frustrateddrone (Jan 31, 2015)

You put pollen patties on because? Protein source. Protein does what for a bee hive? Brood rearing. When do we want brood rearing? Different weather and temps for different regions. I suspect the reasons for putting on Pollen Patties is because your bees are lacking pollen? That's the first thing to pay attention to. If your bees have pollen in the frames and plenty of it, then you don't need pollen patties, right? Just logically saying the the efforts are a gimmick in my thoughts. You don't go and mow your lawn daily just to mow it do you? You don't keep the car engine running in the driveway just because you can do you.


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## WesternWilson (Jul 18, 2012)

Frustrateddrone...no one suggested giving bees food has no consequences. There are many reasons to want to support and ensure well fed brood production. And I would suggest it is better to overfeed and have to deal with all the decisions posed by big, booming colonies than those you face when your colonies are small and limping along.

My Apprentice teacher gave me a good piece of advice when I asked about spring feeding: big booming colonies give you fun decisions to make, small struggling colonies give you headaches.


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