# Wintering/New England



## Bee14me (Jan 4, 2016)

Hi dvdksslr. A 2nd generation commercial bee keeper recently told me, as you already know, that 80 lbs of honey should be left to the bees and have always gotten his hives through upstate NY winters. I too have two Warre hives with three full boxes each, two of which are speculated honey stores. From his advice and other resources, I feel pretty confident moving into winter. I know this is still only speculation and not personal experience, but I hope it helps.


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## Bee14me (Jan 4, 2016)

If you have additional boxes meant for expansion that are not in use, as I do, it's recommended to remove them before winter to help reduce the thermal draw on the hive.


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## dvdksslr (May 5, 2012)

Thanks, I think I will leave all three boxes on the two hives for this winter. I have another Warre with just 2 boxes - so I'll see how they each do this winter.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

I have a question on thermal draw. Does a empty box on bottom really cause thermal draw? I know abby put extra boxes on really early in the year and in langs in spring the lower box is usually empty. Usually only the cluster area is heated. I ask cause I am new and don't know.
Thanks
gww


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## Bee14me (Jan 4, 2016)

From my understanding, any space not taken up by comb (dead space) is heat wasted. Think of it as trying to cool a room with an a/c unit. The larger the room the more btu's the a/c unit must have in order to be efficient and capable of cooling said room. Same applies to our hives. The smaller the area, the less calories/effort/honey needed to keep the hive at "X" temp. It's been said that an outside temp of 44f will show an inside center mass temp of 95f, 71f above the mass and 52f anywhere there is dead space. Mind you this is not my personal observations, though I do plan on using our departments thermal cam. soon to see for myself. Eventually I want to set up temp and humidity sensors in every box including the quilt. 
This is not to say that sealing the hive shut and insulating the outside is the path to take either.... A controlled draft is supposedly still very beneficial in keeping any excess humidity out of the center mass and into the quilt box. Hope this helps some


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## grantsbees (May 9, 2016)

Heat rises. This is why the quilt box works so well as it helps slow the heat from escaping through the roof of the hive. I would think that empty space at the bottom of the hive would be more akin to a basement. It will be cooler than the upper boxes, but you won't lose heat through the lower box.


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## kygreer (May 16, 2015)

So in a situation with two full boxes on top and one empty box on bottom (warre) would you remove the empty box? I have two hives like this going through their first winter. I already removed one of the empty bottom boxes but am wondering now if I should have left it because now there is comb right near the entrance and the base board.
It seems an empty box on the bottom wouldn't cool the cluster (heat rises), it might provide a little wind break through the entrance, and it would give them a little room in the spring if they want more room early. And it's easier just to leave it there, since I'd be putting it back in the spring.
So should I replace the empty bottom box I removed? Should I remove the one I haven't yet?
On the Colorado Front Range with pretty good cold snaps. Thanks


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