# Spacing of Frames in a Hive Body



## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Welcome to Beesource!


Push your frames together so that all of them are touching, and center the group in the box.


In the brood area, frames should _always_ remain in close contact. In _some_ situations, AFTER the comb is drawn, frames in HONEY supers are sometimes spaced further apart. But adding additional space is not a consideration for you as a new beekeeper with a just acquired nuc as all of your frames will be in the brood nest area.


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

what is the outside measurement on those boxes? A 10 framer is 19 7/8 X 16 1/4 - not sure on a 8 framer


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## Dakotaloo (May 6, 2016)

The outside measurement on my 8-frame box is 19 7/8 x 14", though the standard for a Langstroth is 19 7/8 x 13 13/16 (I have no idea why this hive body is inexplicably 3/16" wider than a typical Langstroth.)


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## Dakotaloo (May 6, 2016)

Is it a problem to add a ninth frame, to keep them all snug?


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

The adding of a ninth frame for a brood is not a problem. getting it back out later? now that might be a problem. that extra space will become evident once you are trying to inspect a well built brood box. For a honey super many beekeepers will remove even the eighth frame and put some space between each frame to get comb drawn fatter. But my thoughts wonder. I woudl stick with what Radar said until you see what an actual populated drawn out brood box looks like.


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## Dakotaloo (May 6, 2016)

So with 8 frames pushed together into the center of the hive body space, there will be a 7/8" wide space on either side, between the run of the top bar and the side of the hive body.

Won't the bees fill that space with burr comb? Or do I not have to worry about that?


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## Dan P (Oct 29, 2014)

I was wondering the same thing. Every body talks about bee space. But in all reality why arent the sides of the frames just a little wider to eliminate this confusion? Is it because this is the way it has always been done?? Thats a real dumb answer. lol


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

they may they may not. I often find bur comb on the sides of boxes with new frames. I also start finding frames that are propolized together. and I need that little bit of space to pry them apart so they can be removed. I dos as Rader suggest. then when I do an inspection I start with prying all frames to one side or the other at once. all frames are then broken free form the box which they have been glued to by the bees. Trust me this is very helpful during the rest of the inspection. Now I have a real wide space on one side of the box I can then pry any number of frames I want back in that direction. Now keep in mind each frame is also glued to the ones next to it so to pry them I still have to break that bond. This then puts that entire space right at the frame I want to lift out of the hive. This space is needed so I dont smash or roll bees or worse kill the queen that may be on that frame. Call it room to work. Now I can set that frame aside for the moment and have lots of room to fish out additional frames. I can drop them back in after inspecting them with no problem. I now have more than enough room to pull out frame with minimal harm or disruption. In addition an older hive that is will used has a lot of things that are similar to putty in them. as you remove and replace frames this putty stuff gets between the mating surfaces of the frames. increasing the distance they are actually spaced slightly. Nine frames that fit snug now. will not fit at all later when this spacing has increased. Now many people actually do put 9 frames in an 8 frame brood box. and others put 11 frames in a 10 frame brood box. Hey it is a full frame of potential brood. But to me it is much more of a pain to deal with than it is worth. I still say work with the 8 frames until you see for yourself. then decide if you want to add that 9th frame.


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## Dakotaloo (May 6, 2016)

Thanks for such a thorough response, Daniel. Appreciate especially the point about "putty" building up over time.


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## AR Beekeeper (Sep 25, 2008)

The width dimensions of the 8 frame boxes are because they were intended to be used with a dummy board to make frame removal easy. The propolis buildup between frames soon will remove the excess space if it is not removed.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

I use a follower board on 8 frame brood boxes. For honey supers I evenly space six or seven frames with no follower board. 

http://www.mannlakeltd.com/beekeeping-supplies/product/WW-165.html


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

Dakotaloo said:


> Won't the bees fill that space with burr comb? Or do I not have to worry about that?


Yes, they will and it makes a hot mess! If 9 will fit, put 9 in. Not only will they draw comb on the wall of the box they will make the comb on the frames facing the wall too thick and cause problems for some time to come.

EDIT: Or use a follower board as odfrank suggested.


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## Dakotaloo (May 6, 2016)

Thanks for taking the time to reply. Will follow this advice.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

LO AND BEHOLD!!! I went into the extracting room and there were two eight frame medium supers with two different types of follower boards. #1 is a commercial solid board on the left and #2 is the "odfrank" Small Hive Beetle Discouraging Board. It has warped a bit and yes might permit some burr comb in the widened area. The SHBDB allows the bees to chase any SHB that might hide behind it.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

In the honey super you can space the frames wider in a 12 1/2" ID 8 frame box. Here are frames spaced. Don't do this in the brood chamber where the frames go tight together. At the top you see the spacing tools I used made for ten frame boxes. Posts #15 and #16 also show the difference in photo quality between a Samsung Galaxy S3 used in post 16, and a Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge used in post #15. Quite an improvement in three years and four models.


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