# 15 year layoff



## Cantrellc123 (Jan 15, 2013)

Hello all,
What I'd like to know is what all has changed with beekeeping in the last 15 years. I've basically had a 15 year layoff where I turned my back on my bees almost 100%. I somehow did manage to keep 2-5 colonies alive during this span of time.
When I was a beekeeper of proper means I checked my bees at least monthly or more depending on the time of year. I'd treat once yearly with apistan strips and menthol which was all that I ever needed. Here where I live with decent rain fall a good honey crop was all but guaranteed.

Now that I've decided to restart my beekeeping activities I'm curious to know what's changed with medicine, medication practices, and any different updated management programs. It would seem the biggest challenge to evolve would be SHB, as far as I've read that is.

Are there new strains of bees that are more tolerant to all the pests that afflict honeybees? If so what are these bees and where can they be purchased?

I welcome everyone's opinions as I'd expect there to be a wide range of ideas with a set of questions like this

Thanks in advance,
Cantrell


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## Rusty Hills Farm (Mar 24, 2010)

Ho-boy, are you in for a ride! Lots of changes in the last 15 years! I've only been away for about 6-7 years and I am STILL reading and reading and making notes trying to catch up.

Yes, there are finally resistant bees! I think the best place to start reading about them is probably at the Glenn Apiaries site.

And I am sure lots of others will chime in with their favorite sites, too.

Welcome back!

Rusty


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

It was 26 years off for me and am on my second year back. So far I have learned to take mites very seriously and learned that Terrimyicin is no longer a cure for AFB. You have a huge education on any imaginable subject right here on this forum. Learn how to use the search feature and any concievable question has been talked to death. Since agreement is a rare commodity, you will get to select the cure you most closely agree with. If your ignored bees stayed alive, it sounds like you need to cherish those bees and have those genetics in all your new boxes too.


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## Mtn. Bee (Nov 10, 2009)

X2 with Vance G!


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

welcome to the forum cantrell, and welcome back to beekeeping.

have to agree with vance on the mites. they are really a sleeping giant in that you really can't see them well with standard hive inpections, and they usually don't crash your colony until it's too late in the season to do anything about it.

working toward getting bees with resistance is a good goal, but even then, having resistant bees isn't going to stop 100% of colony deaths from mites. and if one crashes, your other strong hives can rob it out, take the mites home with them, and end up dying out as well.

i spent most of last winter reading all of the articles on scientificbeekeeping.com, and i would recommend that as a good place to start.

once up to speed on what you're dealing with, you'll have the challenging task of deciding how you want to approach it, based on your philosophy and what suits your needs the best.

you'll find all kinds of approaches espoused on the forum here, with lot's of spirited debate about why each one thinks their way is better.

in the end, you get to decide what to try with your bees and see how it works for you. 

bottom line: we are all still on a big learning curve.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

No mite treatments here, ever, for more than twenty years now, here in my area, and yet, I'm still waiting for my first colony death/crash from mites. Perhaps, like many things, it's "location".

I say this, not in an attempt to get anyone to eliminate techniques they feel are essential to their beekeeping practices, but to encourage everyone to determine which "essential" techniques are truly essential. I, myself, might even treat for mites, if I ever saw the need to do so.


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## ralittlefield (Apr 25, 2011)

Joseph Clemens said:


> No mite treatments here, ever, for more than twenty years now, here in my area, and yet, I'm still waiting for my first colony death/crash from mites. Perhaps, like many things, it's "location".


Joseph, how far are you from crops that are pollinated buy bees that are brought in from away?


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## alblancher (Mar 3, 2011)

Did they have the Internet 15 yrs ago? I'll bet back then you spoke to the other guys in the bee club or read a magazine to learn beekeeping. Just remember that with all this information there is a lot of stuff that may not be right for you or where you live. Down here in S. Louisiana a lot of Beeks are going to Russians to deal with the mites, not sure if they would be a good choice for Tenn. 

Where small hive beetles (SHB) a common problem before you left? 

Welcome back, sometimes the old ways are still the best ways.


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## Cantrellc123 (Jan 15, 2013)

\
I didn't have Internet service back in the early 90's when I began beekeeping. All info was books,magazine,and other bee keepers.

SHB has been here less than 5 years I think.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

>SHB has been here less than 5 years I think. 

that's another one to get a handle on, but it's an easy one.

most of what i have i figured out is by having made mistakes. i sometimes joke and say i made 10 years worth of mistakes in my first year.

we're practically neighbors cantrell, if you ever find yourself down around scottsboro, and would like to stop by for a visit, let me know.


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## wadehump (Sep 30, 2007)

Got out late 70's got back in 8 years ago. No treatments and no packages all local swarms and cut outs. Did I have hive die out over winter YES. I let the bees draw there own comb no foundation. Make some splits with hive that go 2-3 years. I believe in using local bees that are from your area and have adapted to your local climate I am at 28 hives now and all are doing good this winter. All of my hives have mites they deal with them have not seen a hive beetle yet. GO to BUSH FARMS AND READ HIS WRITING http://www.bushfarms.com/xstar.htm#The Practical Beekeeper/


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## Rick 1456 (Jun 22, 2010)

Took my first Beekeeping class in 1971 when I was in college. Got my first hive the next year as part of a Special Project for one of my courses. We worried about AFB, EFB, trachea Mites, and swarming. Midnight Bees and Starline Bees could be ordered from a Sears and Roebuck Farm catalog. I had mild allergic reaction to some stings and decided to sell my hives. 
About seven years ago at the encouragement of a friend, we started some hives. I thought I had a pretty good background in bees keeping. I was blown away with what was new and what had changed! Varroa and SHB was only the tip of the ice burg! It was almost starting over as if I never had kept bees before. Thankfully, the bees still had six legs and three body regions LOL
My humble advice is to learn what works for bee keeping in your area. Sounds like you may have a jump on that. There is tremendous amounts of info "out there" and again, what works for one author of a book where they are from may or may not work for you. JMHO
Welcome back. It is the same wagon, just different horses 
Rick


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## dixiebooks (Jun 21, 2010)

If you have colonies still alive, those are the genetics you want. I'd recommend starting by studying all the way through Michael Bush's website and using your survivors as the basis of your stock. Split those and set out swarm traps. Hopefully, some of the swarms your hives have generated over the years (and there surely have been some) have survived in the wild and will, in turn, swarm and you can catch those. I am treatment free, myself. -js


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

Once you have done your research (if you head hasn't spun completely off) you will no doubt still be torn between at least two different approaches in your management goals. What types of bees to use, treatment or treatment free, large cell or small cell, deep or medium boxes, .... on and on. 

There are so many different paths to choose, but most of them all lead to the same place. Many of your choices will be based on your location and what works best in your area. The rest is what works best for the beekeeper. If you are not fully convinced in a couple of areas of management you may want to find at least two different yards to set up your colonies. Try two different approaches, one at each site, and see which works best for you.

I first started keeping bees back in the early 80"s. I moved around after that and put beekeeping on the back burner for many years. When I started back up it was an entirely different world. I had a lot to learn, mainly regarding mites. My first few years back I made a lot of mistakes, and learned alot with a tremendous amount of information right here on BeeSource. I tried many different ideas and management styles and have now settled into what works best for me. You will go through the same process. Try some different things and have fun.

Welcome back to the beekeeping world. :thumbsup:


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## Paul McCarty (Mar 30, 2011)

Survivor bees - the way to go. Protect and guard those 15 year old genetics with your life! Treatments lead to weak bees in my opinion. Haven't done any treatments stronger than a good juniper smoking in years. Mites, no problem - bears, that's another story.

Survivor bees are like Longhorn cattle, and some people don't like them because of their wild-ish traits.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

ralittlefield said:


> Joseph, how far are you from crops that are pollinated buy bees that are brought in from away?


I am a few miles more than normal foraging distance from the agriculture that prospers nearby. Most all of the crops that are just beyond forage distance from my own bees are fields of cotton. I am fairly certain that honey bees are not intentionally used to pollinate the cotton fields. A few miles farther away alfalfa is grown for forage, not for seed. And I have infrequently seen fields of watermelon in the vicinity of the alfalfa fields.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Talking about books, one thing that may have changed, is the quality of them. If you are only familiar with books that were written more than say, 20 years ago, or pre internet, most books were written by one or more people of huge experience, were well researched and could be relied on for solid information.

More recently, there has been a crop of books written by any and all comers, some authors having an agenda of some type and harshly criticising others with different viewpoints. Sometimes the author will excude lots of confidence but in fact be lacking in some basic beekeeping knowledge.

The problem for someone getting back into bees after a long time away, is that new information is needed, mostly in relation to pest management. But wading through the information overload and sifting the wheat from the chaff, is the problem.

Here's my take. Tracheal mites have pretty much gone away as a problem, don't worry about them. Use of drugs to treat AFB is declining, burning is becoming a more used method. Apistan is not a reliable mite treatment any more most mites have immunity to it. So try to get queens from someone who has been working on mite resistant bees. If you have to treat for mites, there are new methods that do not leave permanent residue in the hive, such as hop guard, oxalic acid, and others.

There is lots of argument about how to deal with mites. There is not so much argument about how to deal with hive beetles, generally if you ask questions about hive beetles you will get good answers.


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## Cantrellc123 (Jan 15, 2013)

That's some GREAT posts everyone, keep em coming as I've seen several good ideas already.

Cantrell


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## NasalSponge (Jul 22, 2008)

When I got out in the late 80's beekeeping was EASY, a bit of swarm prevention in the spring, fed Terramycin spring and fall, set 4 or 5 supers on just before the flow and harvested 100 to 150 lbs of honey per hive. Not so now. You have to be in the hive much more now to stay on top of your girls. Only one or two supers at a time due to SHB. But it is still my favorite thing even tho it is harder, I do not want to discourage you in the least. It was quite eye opening when I got back in it but then again there are resources like this forum that made the transition much smoother.


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

Welcome,
You've managed to keep those hives alive all this time, I'd guess you have resistant bees already. Try expanding from the stock you already have. Maybe add some VSH queens to breed into the mix.


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## Markwell (Jan 17, 2013)

Indeed, Kq6ar. The bees are obviously fighters . I would also expand from there. With bee resistances, usually there is not a perfect mmix of character and resistances with bees. I would not play around that much, but try to work with what i got in the best way possible.


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## Cantrellc123 (Jan 15, 2013)

Thanks All,
Those are my plans exactly. I was in these 3 colonies this past weekend with 1 of the 3 extremely full of bees- 2 deep hive bodies both full of bees with the queen laying in both top and bottom. I'd like to split them ASAP but I'll not have an active drone population quick enough for breeding purposes.
With that in mind I'm entertaining the idea of purchasing a VSH queen from a reputable breeder giving me an early split in time for both splits to build their population to produce a honey crop this year. 
As long as I can obtain a new queen by March 1st then my plans will be safe.


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## Rick 1456 (Jun 22, 2010)

I would not play around that much, but try to work with what i got in the best way possible. 
JMHO,,,,,That is the way I'd go  Good suggestion.
Rick


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## Paul McCarty (Mar 30, 2011)

Here is what I do - I obtain a decent queen and surround her with my wild survivor hives. Then I breed from the progeny. I would keep those bees you have relatively unchanged, and maybe just add new queens into splits made from them - not too many though... just enough to keep from getting inbred. Every year or so, add another queen from a different line for variation. I have been using Carnie and Russian-ish queens lately.

They say the survival characteristics are passed down through the drones and the temperament is passed down through the queen. I am not a geneticists, so I can't say for sure - but that is how my operation is set-up.


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