# Bottling Tank Bummer



## PerryBee (Dec 3, 2007)

Just got my new bottling tank, signed for it after marking that the box was slightly damaged and guess what I found inside? It would still work OK but after what I paid and all the shipping, brokerage fees and taxes I want one that at least looks like new. It's on its way back . The manufacturer seems to be trying to do the right thing as I am pretty sure they didn't send it out that way! UPS delivery appears to be responsible but time will tell. It's in " Damage investigation " now. I will update as to how all this sorts itself out.


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

You should not have to wait for things "to turn out" before you get your money back or another unit sent out. UPS is notoriously slow in settling claims and can drag settlement out for months. You don't want to be part of that process. The issue is between UPS and the manufacturer. Don't accept any other arrangement.
Sheri


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

JohnK and Sheri said:


> You should not have to wait for things "to turn out" before you get your money back or another unit sent out. UPS is notoriously slow in settling claims and can drag settlement out for months. You don't want to be part of that process. The issue is between UPS and the manufacturer. Don't accept any other arrangement.
> Sheri



Sheri has a great point. You (the customer) are out of the loop.
The seller should make it right ASAP. They were responsible for
properly packing it, and UPS was responsible for handling it
with care.

UPS can be very, very slow to settle!! Probably by design.


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

It is always a good idea to have a conversation with the seller about how an item should look before getting upset and sending something back.

I have gotten in the habit of inspecting expensive items before the UPS guy leaves especially when the box is damaged, once it backfired on me.

I ordered a water jacketed bottling tank, the fifteen gallon size, I forget who from at the moment. It came in with damage to the box and even well packed it had a good sized crease in the side. I thought it should be perfect for the amount of money I was spending so I refused the shipment and the UPS guy took it right back to the seller.

I called the seller and talked to them and they said 'OK, we will send a new one as soon as it gets here'. They did, but the one they sent had big ugly flat spots around the flanges where they were welded to the tank and looked uglier than the original one. They looked like they were beaten flat with a ball peen hammer. 

I kept that one as I had spoke to the seller who explained to me that was the way most of them look and that they are fine and work just fine, it's just rough looking. It has to be flattened to weld the flanges onto the tank. I was a bit embarrassed about sending the previous one back and did not want to cause any more expense or trouble for the seller.

My opinion now is that we are dealing with tools, equipment that is meant to get a job done, not necessarily nice kitchen quality that is nice to look at. I would prefer to have nice looking equipment, and I go to a lot of trouble to keep my stuff looking good, (and clean), but extracting and bottling equipment are tools just the same, not fine furniture.

Perry did not go into much detail about his problem, but I hope that others will glean some good from my ordeal.


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

And never ever sign for an expensive piece of equipment until you inspect it in front of the delivery person even if it shows no sign of outward damage. The worst hassle you will ever have is called 'HIDDEN DAMAGE'.


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## PerryBee (Dec 3, 2007)

The damage on the box was minor ( the cardboard was barely broken but looked as if something small and pointed had gone into it ) but it was clearly responsible for the damage inside. The tank could only fit in the box one way and everything lined up with the damage. Given todays neat cameras I took pictures of the box, damaged tank, and both of them side by side. I emailed them to the manufacturer who I feel sorry for ( at this point in time ) It must be as frustrating for them as it is for me to have to deal with this stuff. I agree that I SHOULD be out of the loop, I paid for the unit, shipping, brokerage fees and taxes ( I live in Canada ) and I certainly hope none of those fees has to be paid again, at least not by me. The sad thing is if another one is sent ( I still want the one I bought ) who's to say this doesn't happen again?


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## PerryBee (Dec 3, 2007)

Bullseye, without naming the manufacturer, this is a 25 gallon water jacketed tank I bought and aside from the damage is a thing of beauty! If the wife would let me I would keep it in the living room as a centerpiece! I hope the next one arrives intact.


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

Perry Bee,
why are you paying brokerage fees?
NAFTA allows beekeeping equipment across the border no questions asked. Customs checks it to ensure its beekeeping equipment but this is where the free trade agreement kicks in.
I've ordered from Mann Lake and Better Bee and have not had to pay any brokerage fees. I'm from Canada too!
I just order direct from them, and on the papers they put beekeeping supplies.


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## PerryBee (Dec 3, 2007)

Honeyshack, from what I have been able to ascertain is that there are no duties to be paid because of the free trade agreement, but that brokerage fees still have to be paid.( Is there some form of exemption? ) This was a surprise to me and it didn't help that Revenue Canada charged me the full HST ( 13% taxes) on the full purchase price instead of the 5% GST. A fax has been sent to them trying to sort that out as well. The final cost of this tank to my door is so close to $1700 I could cry. If you know of some other way please let me in on it.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

If it is still fully functional, call the seller and work out a
partial refund. Like 25% to 35% back........... Many would 
rather settle than have to screw around with returning it.


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

Okay, I am unsure on the Hst thing. What i do know when i go to our local bee supply shop i get charged GST on equipment, but not pst. I do however have a gst number and claim it all back. Same goes with buying out of country. Usually customs tacks on the cost of the GST, and if they do not then, I do not pay cause well, I'll claim it back.
When i bought from ML i asked about brokerage and duty. They said because of NAFTA, no problem, direct sale of bee keeping supplies, unless there is a $ limit to what one can buy without a broker.
When i first wanted to buy state side, called a brokerage firm, they put me in contact with someone, i talked to him once and he never called back nor returned my calls. 
If the stuff i bought required brokering into the country, customs, in theory would stop it at the border and not let it in without the correct paperwork. Mann Lake and Better Bee seem to attach the correct paperwork cause it gets through ok...so far. 
Call the beekeeping supply store and ask them directly since they probably ship to Canada all the time. They will know!
Your other option is to contact your local beek supply shop and see if they would order it in.
Get yourself a number to claim back the GST/HST portion of Bee keeping supplies. Most ag equipment is PST exempt, in Manitoba anyhow.I know i file quarterly. 
As well, talk to a good accountant who specializes in farm accounting. They will know the rules and regs for GST/HST. Stay away from the farm business constutant (FBC). They cost to much for what they offer and make pretty costly mistakes. If you need to find a good ag accountant, go to a rural farming area and check on who does ag accounting and their credentials. Are they a back yard tax guy or do they really know their stuff (CMA/ CA/ CGA). You should also find out if the guy/gal is good with CAIS as well...or what ever they call it these days.

Sounds like you have a mess on your hands. Sorry about that!


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

I just had a brain fart,
Contact the Canadian Honey council (CHC) they should know what needs brokering and what does not,
contact your provincal bee association as well and get their input and help.
just a thought
I will fire off an email as well and find out what i need to do for importing beek equipment

good luck


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## PerryBee (Dec 3, 2007)

H-Shack. Some good ideas. I thing maybe I'll call up CHC and see what their take is on the importating of beek equipment. I haven't bothered to get a GST number because apparently you don't need one if your business will make less than thirty thousand. I don't think the ladies in my ten hives are up to that kind of productionYET


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

Why don't you get a 45 gallon drum (approx $80.00) from your bee keeping supply house (food grade compliant) add in a honey gate ( $23-43 depending on the size and type) and a digital scale for weighing containers. (depending on the type and if weights and measured approved or not ($180-349.00) We used this system with 2, 16, 32 and now 150 hives. Works well, and cheaper than a tank The first two years we had the barrel on milk crates (6 in total, two high and set into a triangle), now some are on cement cinder blocks and the others are on stand with wheels, made from 2x4s and plywood
Check with an ag accountant see if you qualify for ag accounting based on 10 hives, check about CAIS. The good thing about GST is you claim back what you pay in stuff put towards your business. Food is not taxable therefore you do not have to collect GST. We got a GST # when my nusband was a courier in the city. When we moved to the farm, that number followed us. But, we are both cattle and honey producers so it was benificial. As is CAIS when your farming income falls below your average threshold, or you have a crop failure.


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