# Langstroth frames for a horizontal hive



## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

I built two medium frame long langs but have not put bees in them yet. I use foundationless in my langs and can not see why it would be differrent in a long hive. It might make it a little harder later if you ever want to use an extractor to harvest honey. I am intending to try it with my medium frames but with deeps, you may need to wire them. If you just crush and strain, I would think it would work. 
Good luck
gww


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## cerezha (Oct 11, 2011)

I have horizontal beehive with Langstroth-size full frames, foundationless. Full-size "frames" (actually "stick", top bar) are OK, but you shall be careful. When building horizontal beehive, keep in mind that it shall be really long. Mine is 20 full "frames" (top bars) "long" and it is not enough. If I will build another one - it would be 30 frames "long."  I love my horizontal beehive!


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## Cardiac_cadet (Feb 24, 2017)

Should I use a grooved top bar or a wedge top bar frame?


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Cardiac.......
I won't tell you what you should use. This is what I use for a guide.
My long langs are the same as about 3 medium langs and hold 32/34 frames. About 48 inches long.
Good luck.
gww


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## WD9N (Dec 28, 2014)

I started on such a design last year. Mine is 50" long made of 1 1/2" material. I am planning on using standard langstroth frames(deep). I currently use regular grooved frames with popsicle sticks glued in for a comb guide on foundationless frames in my langstroth hives. I put them between already drawn frames or alternate foundation and foundationless if establishing a hive, this seems to help keep them building comb the way I need them to. Using Langstroth frames makes it a bit easier to inspect and handle frames than what I see with the top bar only. I suppose one could also make a frame that has the side bars and no bottom bar as well. Many options that depend on your preference and method of management. 

I use foundationless in the brood chamber and foundation in honey supers that will be extracted. Gives the bees the chance to build the cell sizes they want and lets me have the convenience of foundation for extraction. This could be done in a horizontal hive as well, just watch how far back the brood nest goes and put foundation in the honey store area.


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## cohutt (Feb 13, 2017)

Cardiac_cadet said:


> Should I use a grooved top bar or a wedge top bar frame?


With the wedge top you can pop the wedge out and then glue it vertically in the center of the top bar. I've had perfectly aligned comb with any I've done this way. 

Plus, you save a few cents on Popsicle sticks or don't have to con Home Depot or Sherwin Williams out of a bunch of wooden paint stir sticks.


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

cohutt said:


> With the wedge top you can pop the wedge out and then glue it vertically in the center of the top bar. I've had perfectly aligned comb with any I've done this way.
> 
> Plus, you save a few cents on Popsicle sticks or don't have to con Home Depot or Sherwin Williams out of a bunch of wooden paint stir sticks.


Same here. Also, once you get enough built comb, I've found no need for a guide if you are inserting empties between drawn out frames. That's a time saver.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I consider a frame between two drawn brood combs to have a guide--the combs on either side. But every comb needs some kind of guide whether it's a drawn comb on each side or a starter strip or a wood guide of some kind.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfoundationless.htm#emptyframes


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

Michael Bush said:


> I consider a frame between two drawn brood combs to have a guide--the combs on either side. But every comb needs some kind of guide whether it's a drawn comb on each side or a starter strip or a wood guide of some kind.
> 
> http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfoundationless.htm#emptyframes


You're right, of course. I should have worded it as as "no need for an integrated frame guide" perhaps as the drawn comb, by function, is a guide. The bees will often use as a guide comb on one side of a frame or bar without an integrated frame guide. I wouldn't count on that reliably, and was discovered by accident many times over by leaving blank bars to the back portion of the hive behind drawn comb. That gets trickier in the honey section.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I'm not trying to nit pick, just trying to point out the concept that some kind of guide is necessary, even if it's two drawn combs.


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

I didn't take it that way at all. On the contrary, it's a good point to see drawn comb as a guide as any other guidance measure. The bees certainly see it that way. Bees need a guide to make nice straight comb. Various ways to get there, but the guide is essential to one good comb leading to another. In terms of management, the guide needs tweaking depending on any given situation as well, such as in the honey section. That comes with practice and knowledge, like all things beekeeping.


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## Cardiac_cadet (Feb 24, 2017)

Michael Bush said:


> I consider a frame between two drawn brood combs to have a guide--the combs on either side. But every comb needs some kind of guide whether it's a drawn comb on each side or a starter strip or a wood guide of some kind.
> 
> http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfoundationless.htm#emptyframes


I went to your website and am currently reading all I can on your techniques. Thank you for the wealth of information you have provided! I am starting with a nuc so hopefully it will have 5 frames of drawn comb to provide a template for others.


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## cerezha (Oct 11, 2011)

I totally agree that some sort of the guide is necessary for foundationless. I am using top bars with different "guides" (grove, wedge etc) and some normal foundationless Lang frames. At the beginning, it was obvious that bees need the guide. With time, my bees learn how to build straight comb practically on any "bar." I have anecdotal situation when top bar with grove was misplaced (grove up) and bees nevertheless built a perfect straight comb! So, I do not need to worry about "guide" anymore. My theory is that bees learned how to use the "bars." Of coarse, some "adjustments" are necessary from time to time, but they are minor. If I neglected my responsibilities and did not touch "frames" for long period of time, than, yes, I do have some problems with the comb. Sometime, bees use two neighboring bars to make one and half (frame thick) honey comb usually at the periphery of the box.


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## Chris G (Feb 26, 2017)

my bees build out comb in lang frames, I dont use foundation and just throw frames in there for them ....once in awhile I find a wonky frame but for the most part they know what to do.only thing i really do is put empty frames between drawn frames when possible.thats seems to inspire them more to build it out


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## Arpolis (Aug 26, 2013)

I have done a couple long lang hives and I love it. I have done some videos on their construction and on how I make my frames. Check it out here:

https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCmClLQyAO4j20T9hmcU76Vg


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## hankstump (Jul 30, 2014)

I built a Long Lang last and like it for many reasons.
Mine is 32 frames long, and I use foundation less frames. (F frames with the guide on them) I also built my box with a slatted bottom to it and an extra 1.5 inches below. They keep the floor nice and clean. 
When I catch a swarm, or doing a trap out, its super easy to go through the hive like a file cabinet and find a frame with the right characteristics to steal. Then I just drop in a new empty frame for them to build up on. 
When the family comes to visit, open up the hive, find a nice frame of capped honey, and bring it to the breakfast table. 
Didn't get much honey out of them last year, but I stole about 10 frames out of their last year for different reasons. 

Cheers, Phil


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## hankstump (Jul 30, 2014)

I built a Long Lang last year, installed the bees in February, and after one year, I like it for many reasons.
Mine is 32 frames long, and I use foundation less frames. (F frames with the guide on them) I also built my box with a slatted bottom to it and an extra 1.5 inches below. They keep the floor nice and clean. 
When I catch a swarm, or doing a trap out, its super easy to go through the hive like a file cabinet and find a frame with the right characteristics to steal. Then I just drop in a new empty frame for them to build up on. 
When the family comes to visit, open up the hive, find a nice frame of capped honey, and bring it to the breakfast table. 
Didn't get much honey out of them last year, but I stole about 10 frames out of their last year for different reasons. 

Cheers, Phil


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## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

Look at horizontalhive.com for ideas. I'm happy with standard deep frames with acorn or ritecell foundations.


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## Cardiac_cadet (Feb 24, 2017)

Lburou said:


> Look at horizontalhive.com for ideas. I'm happy with standard deep frames with acorn or ritecell foundations.
> 
> View attachment 31339
> View attachment 31340


That's the exact hive I am going to build. Are you happy with it?


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## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

Cardiac_cadet said:


> That's the exact hive I am going to build. Are you happy with it?


Yes, I'm happy with it! I made it 24 frames wide so you can put three eight frame supers on it. Then I enclosed that for the fun of it and for winter time. Last year all 24 frames came through winter with bees on them and I split it to make four good hives. This design is flexible. You can have one, two, three, even six colonies in that hive at once. This is how I made entrances:







robbing screens are permanent, just right for three or four frame NUC development.









A very flexible system.


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## Cardiac_cadet (Feb 24, 2017)

my only question for that design was the 3 entrances. From what I have been reading you only need 1 entrance for a TBH. I'm assuming I could still cut out the 3 entrances in this design but use wooden blocks to close 2 of the entrances if I plan on using this as 1 large hive?


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## trishbookworm (Jun 25, 2016)

The bees in their own colony only want 1 entrance (I use 3 holes in a row as their entrance - sometimes traffic is thick enough they need it!). I have 3 entrances as well, one north, one south, one east (center of the long side). Now I realized I should have gone with 1 south (currently in use), one east/center, and one at the very north end, but on the LONG side. 

--------------------------------------------- l
o l
o l
o l
--------------------ooo------------------ooo

this is what I mean!

I will be starting some nucs from my original hive - they may just go at the other end with a good robber screen! I love that about a top bar hive. So flexible!

Or I have the other end to insert a new swarm.

Just have extra division boards on hand!


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## bentonkb (May 24, 2016)

I like my long langs. You just need to do a lot of active management during swarm season and honey production. If you just let them go they will generate loads of swarms and not much else.

Having room for at least 30 deeps, at least two entrances, and some division boards are all good ideas.


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## Natilie (Nov 12, 2015)

Lburou - Like your hive - want to make one like it. Question - how tall are your robber screens ?? thank you.


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## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

Natilie said:


> Lburou - Like your hive - want to make one like it. Question - how tall are your robber screens ?? thank you.


The screen tops are 4.5 inches above the entrances.


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## Natilie (Nov 12, 2015)

Thanks


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