# open drum feeding



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

how much do you guys think that open drum feeding wears the bees and decreases their foraging life?

dropping a drum of feed in a yard sure beats filling half pails per hive.


----------



## High-On-Burlap (May 6, 2013)

One of the best bee guys I know does openfeeding at a round up yard. Throws straw in the container for the bees to sit on. If we did that at our yards we would lose more sugar to the other bee guys sitting around us then we would feed our own. My dad thinks open feeding might have a potential to spread disease quicker too.


----------



## RMC (Feb 16, 2014)

Open feeding sure caused a lot of issues in Utah last year. Many ended up with red honey due to the open feeding of candy cane byproduct.


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

the only time I will see bald black bees is when I'm open feeding. But I never really worried about it much because I considered those bees expendable.


----------



## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

With Open Feeding - it seems that "Those that have - Get! And those that do not have do not get." But Open Feeding sure is easier.


----------



## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

RMC said:


> Open feeding sure caused a lot of issues in Utah last year. Many ended up with red honey due to the open feeding of candy cane byproduct.


One question I have always had, since I feed Fumidil and have other peoples apiaries all around me, what responsibility do I have to the other beeks to let them know that their honey supers are potentially contaminated. No one around here puts their name or phone # on the apiary or equipment and apiaries aren't registered?


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

I dont open feed yards with neighbours close by. I dont like feeding neighbours bees  

I usually open feed in the spring when I have my yards grouped into my spring holding sites.


----------



## rainesridgefarm (Sep 4, 2001)

here is a pic of us feeding in MS. We made a round float that has slats in it for the bees to drink from. it has a half in clearing to the edge of the drum and when they are empty there maybe a cup of bees at the most in the bottom.


----------



## Markt (Feb 8, 2012)

hpm08161947 said:


> With Open Feeding - it seems that "Those that have - Get! And those that do not have do not get." But Open Feeding sure is easier.


Another way to look at it is that the hives with a higher population are getting more feed than the ones with lower... Not necessarily a bad thing especially with singles but that being said I think the doubles can definitely end up with more than necessary sometimes. As long as the barrels go out early I would think all of the bald black bees should still be fall ones that were going to die anyways. There's also something to be said for being able to feed everything in a day instead of it taking a week with pails, sometimes you don't get that extra week of warm weather


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

One problem with hive top feeders in the spring is that the bees don't take the syrup fast enough and drippage becomes a problem


----------



## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

We open barrel feed in the fall to try and get the bees to put the feed in the frames so I have less to spray in the winter. We do have so bee lost, but we're not looking to bring the bee though winter. Spring feeding is sprayed frames or ML DB feeder with wires in them. I would say we don't lose bees to feeding in the spring.


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

rainesridgefarm said:


> here is a pic of us feeding in MS. We made a round float that has slats in it for the bees to drink from. it has a half in clearing to the edge of the drum and when they are empty there maybe a cup of bees at the most in the bottom.


Nice trick with the lids. I do the same thing but I use rubber maid tubs. I hing the top open slightly and clip it open with a paint stick and screws. Keeps the rain out and provides lots of access. I like the rubber maid tubs because of the ease of storage and transportation to the yards. I'm not going for the volume as your providing.


----------



## Allen Martens (Jan 13, 2007)

I don't think open feeding reduces the bees lifespan. I don't see lower winter survival rates now that I open feed fall compared to when I used to use hive top feeders. If there is any change, I would say my winter survival rates are better.

I use rubber maid totes for feeding as well. I like the increase in surface area compared to barrels and the ease of transport. One tote for every 10 hives in fall gives lots of surface area.

The totes I use are the 114 L ones with the high top. There are seven 2.5 inch holes drill in each side of the lid for the bees to access the feed and I run a trap strap across the lid to secure it.


----------



## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

We use open feeding in the late summer/fall. I like it. We can give a lot of feed in such a short amount of time. Just about anybody can drive up to a yard and fill totes or drums. Different story if you to place buckets on hives or have to open them to fill frame feeders.

It does wear out the bees a bit prematurely but it does not seems to be an issue in our winter survival rates. Those black bees die a bit earlier than they would normally. However they get a lot of feed into the hives assuring the colony overwintering success. I just think the positives outweigh the negatives.

Jean-Marc


----------



## dgl1948 (Oct 5, 2005)

We use 5 gal pails with tiny holes drilled around the outside of the rim. It is much like using the pail feeders except the holes are not in the center of the lid. We invert the pails, set them on stands and let them have at her. Seems to work fine with very few losses.


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Allen Martens said:


> The totes I use are the 114 L ones with the high top. There are seven 2.5 inch holes drill in each side of the lid for the bees to access the feed and I run a trap strap across the lid to secure it.


ahh, yes, great idea. I use the same high top totes. Propping the tops up work fine but the wind will catch the lids. Going to set them up with holes. aswell.


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

jean-marc said:


> Just about anybody can drive up to a yard and fill totes or drums.
> Jean-Marc


I like the quickness of being able to provide feed to a yard especially in the fall as we are stripping off boxes late in the season. Sometimes we are needing to get back with pails within the day or two. I think I'm going to set some totes out this fall as we are stripping the boxes and have one of my guys make a couple rounds with syrup before we get a chance to make a round with pails.

I have always been afraid to open feed in the fall because I figured the bees would tear each other apart. But as Allen suggested, providing three or four totes per yard provides lots of access, thats probably the key.


----------



## Myron Denny (Sep 27, 2009)

I have a drum of rock hard sugar warehouse floor sweeping's in my yard. The bees were working it yesterday though a very small opening, I opened the lid yesterday so they had more access. They are not fighting, it looks like a good idea to me! Our temperature is supposed to reach 74 today. The bee's are also working our maple trees.


----------



## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

I use 5 gallon buckets. I see very little fighting and few dead bees. Very little waste either. I put 6 of these on a pallet and bees have lots of access.


----------



## dgl1948 (Oct 5, 2005)

camero7 said:


> I use 5 gallon buckets. I see very little fighting and few dead bees. Very little waste either. I put 6 of these on a pallet and bees have lots of access.
> View attachment 9254


That is the system we use and I tried to describe.


----------



## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Ian;1061571 But as Allen suggested said:


> We provide a tote for every 20 hives or so. The greater surface area the better for the bees. As surface area increases so does the likely hood of bees fighting. Keep in mind that you do not have to fill the tote to the brim when they are heavy. You can put 3 totes out filling each only by about a third, this way the bees have access to a lot of surface area. It is a bit of a pain to cart the extra totes around but... you gotta do what you gotta do.
> 
> I can see where this would be especially useful to a guy running singles. It is important to feed them as soon as the last honey supers are pulled to prevent starvation. Like Ian said a guy following with totes and syrup and all is well again for the bees.
> 
> Jean-Marc


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Think I have it figured out now. I'm going to set out a couple of totes per yard this spring as I usual but now I'm going to set a couple totes out in the fall also as we are pulling the last supers. I'll run a guy around every other day til we get pails on. This will buy time and eliminate half the stress off my September stress load! lol I have always been afraid of open feeding in the fall with so many bees in these hives late in the year. 

Ill be making a round with the pails with medication as I dont know how you would be able to measure the correct amount of Fumagillin while open feeding. 

Any thoughts?


----------



## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Ian, correct me if I am wrong but doesnt sunlight rapidly degrade Fumagillin? I think it would be impossible effectively treat using open feeding method.

I have tried open feeding for the first time last year with drums because I flat run out of in hive feeders. I will probably use drums again this coming season. I definitely will use the cracked lid method. Very useful thread. Thanks for all that contributed.


----------



## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

BMAC said:


> Ian, correct me if I am wrong but doesnt sunlight rapidly degrade Fumagillin? I think it would be impossible effectively treat using open feeding method.


if you use the totes they are talking about, use the dark colored ones, and cut the wholes to let the bees in under the handles, the sun shouldn't be able to effect the fumadil, at least that's my theory.


----------



## Allen Martens (Jan 13, 2007)

I would be hesitant to feed bees every other day in fall. Seems to me this would be mimicking a flow and potentially stimulate the bees to brood without adequate resources. My experience has been that a hive having lots of brood in the beginning of September will normally winter well. With single brood chambers, I want the space where the early September brood was to be available for feed and not new brood.

I normally feed 3 times in fall. The first feeding is done right after the supers are removed. It doesn’t take long for a single brood to starve in fall. In a normal year this is the first or second week of September. Then I try to leave about a week to a week and half between the feedings, depending upon the weather. The first 2 feedings are usually about 1.5 imp gallons. The third feeding size depends upon the size of the hives, weight of the hives, fall flow etc. By staggering the feedings, the ones with later brood have a chance to store syrup as well. I usually end up feeding between 3.5 and 4 imp gallons, if I don’t have a fall alfalfa flow.

My winter survival rates are much better with early feeding than late feeding. Bees with little feed are desperate bees in my opinion. They wear themselves out searching for feed. Small hives aren’t nearly as likely to get robbed out in yards that are fed early.


----------



## Allen Martens (Jan 13, 2007)

These are the feeders I use. I don't think sunlight could degrade the Fumagillin under the lid and straw. Getting the correct dose per hive would be a challenge, though I've never understood why hives of all sizes should get an equal dose. For that matter, I'm not certain Fumagillin improves winter survival at all after comparing survival rates for treated and nontreated hives.


----------



## irwin harlton (Jan 7, 2005)

dgl1948
How long does it take to empty six 5 gal pails?

I do not like or condone open barrell feeding, but have done it for the last 4-5 years.In my mind anytime you have robbing bees you are not treating them right,That being said I feel the fast time element,outweighs the negative effects.


----------



## dadandsonsbees (Jan 25, 2012)

I too use the 5 gallon bucket for open feeding and I find it works great for me.


----------



## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

> How long does it take to empty six 5 gal pails?


Depends on the yard. My nuc yard will empty a couple of buckets a week... my other yards will empty them in a couple of days. I mix in the yard and put them out a couple of times, then start checking hive weights.


----------



## tefer2 (Sep 13, 2009)

Me three, I also use Cam's method of inverted 5 gallon bucket feeders on pallets.
Turn them over and walk away.
Just to easy and hardly any dead bees.:thumbsup:


----------



## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Last fall had a yard of about 500 hives empty out 1250L in 3-4 hours. That's more or less 3/4 of a gallon. The way I figure it those bees were awfully thirsty It is good to stagger the feedings in the fall. As brood hatches then bees are fed, the cells are full of syrup. Some hives are broody longer than others. By staggering the feedings it allows those with late hatches to have an opportunity to fills those cells.

As far as medicating , just follow the recommended dosages. Light does damage fumigillin but under the straw in a dark space, not to much UV. Make sure your tanks are dark so that sunlight does not penetrate.

Jean-Marc


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

I think Ill leave administration of the medication mix to be done in the pail., Easier to measure it that way. 
Im going to start with open feeding then toss them all a pail as soon as I get caught up pulling boxes

I dont know about you guys but I like to pound the feed into them in the fall, that way they will have something to sit on in the spring.


----------



## Allen Martens (Jan 13, 2007)

I like getting the hives full in fall but not pounded full if I can help it. However, I often end up pounding them full in the end.

I like to be able to feed them every other day in spring for the first couple on weeks to give the bees a next ring of syrup around the brood. All of my bees are in my home yard for the first couple of weeks so feeding is very easy. If I fed them too much in fall then I have to be much more careful not to plug them full.


----------



## dgl1948 (Oct 5, 2005)

irwin harlton said:


> dgl1948
> How long does it take to empty six 5 gal pails?
> 
> I do not like or condone open barrell feeding, but have done it for the last 4-5 years.In my mind anytime you have robbing bees you are not treating them right,That being said I feel the fast time element,outweighs the negative effects.


That is a tough question to answer. Strong yards will go through a pail a day if there is nothing else for them. The last couple of falls have been frost free for quite some time so ours get a lot of late flowers and do not use nearly as much. We have found that if you can keep them busy at the feeders they do not tend to rob nearly as much. With pails we also find that there is not as much waste feed as with barrels.


----------



## R.Varian (Jan 14, 2014)

camero7 said:


> I use 5 gallon buckets. I see very little fighting and few dead bees. Very little waste either. I put 6 of these on a pallet and bees have lots of access.
> View attachment 9254


 Is there a link describing hole size placement ect.. somewhere or can someone describe with a little more detail? Thanks


----------



## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

These should give you a good idea. I drill my holes very close together to get lots of syrup in the "trough". If not they drink it dry and fight over the holes.

http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...versus-frame-feeders&highlight=bucket+feeding

http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...ing-on-a-small-scale&highlight=bucket+feeding


----------

