# Large amount dead bees with MAQS



## Tombee MI (Apr 19, 2017)

Has anyone out there had a large die off with MAQS? (mite away quick strips).Last Friday I put the two pads on top of the frames of the lower brood box per directions. The temp. was 73 degrees and I put them on at 7pm with the entrance reducer off. Within 20 minutes I could see many dead and dying bees. the next day there were hundreds of dead bees in front of the hive. By Sunday they were foraging again and I did not see any more dead bees. Has anyone ever had this happen to them? Do you think I will loose the hive. Thanks


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## g2knee (Nov 13, 2014)

I'm a new guy, so get a 2nd opinion -- but from what I've read, this may happen. Even 100's of dead bees, however, won't matter too much if you have 40,000-50,000 bees in your hive from a healthy colony. If they are out and foraging that's a good sign.

I've read some tips when using MAQs (that's what I have as well for if/when I have to treat) that included giving them a top entrance to help with air flow. Other people even recommended putting an empty super on top for a few days, to increase airspace. Not sure how well it helps though.


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## Tombee MI (Apr 19, 2017)

Thanks g2Knee, I forgot to mention in the original post that I do have an inner cover with a notch in it to work as a second entrance on the top.
I guess I will wait the 7 days and then check for queen rightness. My biggest fear is that I lost the queen during the die-off.


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## Tombee MI (Apr 19, 2017)

Thanks g2Knee, I forgot to mention in the original post that I do have an inner cover with a notch in it to work as a second entrance on the top.
I guess I will wait the 7 days and then check for queen rightness. My biggest fear is that I lost the queen during the die-off.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

did you verify the expiration date? If they are expired they work as a flash treatment more so than normal.


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## Tombee MI (Apr 19, 2017)

Thanks wildbranch2007, I did look at the expiration date. It is 8/1/2017 I thought that would be ok as I still have a couple of months yet. Maybe I was too close to the expiration date?


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## BigBlackBirds (Aug 26, 2011)

You were within a reasonable temp to use formic but its not uncommon to see some dead bees with it. Unless there were dead bees in piles inches deep in front of the hive its probably not an issue. It tends to harm queens that arent all that great and close to supercedure anyway. Even if you lost the queen, they normally replace her so even in such a case theres still hope. 

Was this a good sized colony or something smaller? Its possible to overdose a small colony like a single/new split/recently swarmed colony using both pads. And you can have more risks when it flashes vs slow release but in the gel form its pretty stable.


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## Tombee MI (Apr 19, 2017)

Thanks BIGBLACKBIRDS, It was a nuc that I installed 5 weeks ago. they seemed to be doing really good and I put a second deep box on 2 weeks ago and they had a lot of brood in both upper and lower boxes at the time of treatment.


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## BigBlackBirds (Aug 26, 2011)

Personally I'd probably have only used one strip vs two. I normally use two later in the summer when they are at very large population. Otherwise I use one but go back with a second dose later if needed. 

Depending on how the nuc was made, source of bees, etc, there's often a good chance that there was a brood break somewhere in the process and mite load isnt all that high at moment and treatment can be postponed until later. Did you happen to take any pre-treatment samples?


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## Tombee MI (Apr 19, 2017)

No I did not do a check first. I was told by a man that has been keeping bees for 20 years that he never does checks he just treats them two times per year. I guess this will be a learning experience for me but I hope it is not at the expense of the bees. I think I will look into oxcilic acid treatment instead.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

the good news is if it was a nuc you should have had a young queen in there, good luck.


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## BigBlackBirds (Aug 26, 2011)

Tombee MI said:


> No I did not do a check first. I was told by a man that has been keeping bees for 20 years that he never does checks he just treats them two times per year. I guess this will be a learning experience for me but I hope it is not at the expense of the bees. I think I will look into oxcilic acid treatment instead.


Everyone has their own method. A spring and fall treatment became somewhat of a standard protocol years ago but some guys now are treating every 3-4 months year round. Then you have others that only treat once in the fall while some that try to avoid treating altogether. 

I doubt formic application hurt your bees much. It's only the beginning of June. Still 3+ solid months left in this year for them to work.


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## Western (May 29, 2016)

IIRC, when I used MAQS, it said to supply a lot of ventilation at 1st, (I may have read this on the product site, or on the forums, but I believe it was on the product site.) I remember it recommending even offsetting a box for added air flow. I lost a few bees, but not as many as you describe.

BTW, I think I also read that if you keep it in the freezer, it postpones the exp date.


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## Arbol (Apr 28, 2017)

You fried your bees with to much formic acid fumes.
small space, large amounts of bees, and formic acid equal a acid oven.


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## BadBeeKeeper (Jan 24, 2015)

g2knee said:


> Other people even recommended putting an empty super on top for a few days, to increase airspace. Not sure how well it helps though.


The *manufacturer* recommends putting a med super or deep (with frames) on for the first three days of treatment.

MAQS should be put on COLD to prevent a fume burst. I take mine from the freezer and transport it to the bees in a cooler with ice-packs.

It is best to put it on first thing in the morning, when the ambient air temperature is cooler, preferably at the lower end of the range (50* or so)...but if it cannot be done then, then sometime during the day while there is still plenty of daylight left. Bees may beard on the outside of the hive for a while. In my *opinion*, MAQS should not be applied in the evening. MAQS should not be applied if daytime temperatures are expected to exceed 86* during the treatment period.

I apply the strips about two or three inches from the edges of the ends of the brood box, laid out according to the diagram in the instructions. Everyone reads the instructions, right? I never apply in the center of the box, directly over the brood area. I have never had any problems doing it this way (I've been using it since 2011).


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