# Drastic times call for drastic measures.



## Dave Burrup (Jul 22, 2008)

Use the Apivar and pray that you are not too late to turn them around.
Dave


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## Joeinthehills (Jul 31, 2013)

Thanks Dave, I really didn't want to use the Apivar but I sure am glad that we have some here for emergencys. This is my first hive and I don't want to loose it. Hoping for good results.


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## sammyjay (May 2, 2011)

Apivar isn't really a hard treatment. You can have it on while you have honey supers on and still eat the honey.


Nathan


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## jbeshearse (Oct 7, 2009)

sammyjay said:


> Apivar isn't really a hard treatment. You can have it on while you have honey supers on and still eat the honey.
> 
> 
> Nathan


That is not what the apivar instructions say. Instructions say to wait two weeks after removal of strips before placing supers on.


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## GLOCK (Dec 29, 2009)

jbeshearse said:


> That is not what the apivar instructions say. Instructions say to wait two weeks after removal of strips before placing supers on.


I would never eat any honey with apivar in it. Good call jbeshearse. 
Sounds like the hive is domed I had 4 die out just like that last year.
Good luck.


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## Joeinthehills (Jul 31, 2013)

Varroa Destructor What a fitting name. This is a small colony that was started from a NUC about two months ago, it has remained small and now I'm putting the pieces together as to why it has not expanded quicker.
This has been a great learning experience and I hope this little colony makes it through. I will keep my fingers crossed that I didn't wait too long.

Come on Apivar work your magic!!!


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## GLOCK (Dec 29, 2009)

Dealing with Varroa Destructor should bee one of the first things to learn in beekeeping when your hives don't have to deal with a over load of mites they do a lot better and beekeeping is much more enjoyable.
Varroa Destructor is the worst. I hope things turn out for you.


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## Joeinthehills (Jul 31, 2013)

How slim are their chances? I'm getting the feeling all is lost for this season.


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## GLOCK (Dec 29, 2009)

I would treat and see what happens you have nothing to lose . And if you do fail this year you have all winter to read up on Varroa Destructor.
Me I have my bees on 4.9 cell and and I fog weekly with FGMO and have SBBs and all have a brood break so there are thing you can do better next year.
I had 4 super strong hives last july just crumble buy the end of AUG. because of Varroa Destructor and 2 strong hives absconded right after the 4 died and they all where in the same bee yard so I have seen it and what you describe is the latter stage of PMS . Beekeeping has a lot of learning curves and Varroa Destructor is a big one study all you can there lots of info out there . Good luck.


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## Joeinthehills (Jul 31, 2013)

I'm feeling better about this colony today!!! I think they have hope.. Last Fridays inspection went much better. The Queen has resumed laying, I saw lots of larva and freshly capped brood. The Apivar went in without a problem and the bees didn't seem to mind. Checked the sticky board today and was amazed to see all the dead varroa. Die you hideous little vampires! said with a smile!! Were not out of the woods yet but things seem to be looking up. Will keep you posted.


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## AR Beekeeper (Sep 25, 2008)

Did you count the number of dead varroa? I am just curious as to what varroa load the bees were carrying.


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## Margali (Jul 20, 2013)

GLOCK said:


> I fog weekly with FGMO and have SBBs and all have a brood break so there are thing you can do better next year.


Translation please? I haven't run across the FGMO acronym before. I am interesting in staying on the softer treatment end. I did my second sugar dusting yesterday.


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## Tim B (Apr 16, 2009)

You need to take frames that the bees cannot guard out of the hive (to prevent wax moths and hive beetle sliming) and treat with oxytetracycline dust every five days for six or eight weeks to have any hope of saving the hive. Your hive probably has parasitic mite syndrome.


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## Bee Matt (Aug 1, 2013)

wonder if that is what I have going on too ??? 

I had two hives at my house that I lost two years in a row. Just seemed to keep slowing down and then was left with a handful, then none. 
Two hives I have at a friends house 5 miles away are doing ok. 

I used the same hive bodies at my house 2 years in a row and both last year and this year ended the same. FAIL. 

I didn't know enough to look for or treat for mites. Wonder if that's what they had ? My equipment was in my barn all winter and went through the winter below freezing. Wouldn't this have killed any mites or eggs ? Why would I have the same results 2 years in a row at my house location while my hives at other location are doing ok ? 

Some of my hive bodies were old ( 14 + years ) from my dad. I don't recall him having any foul brood issues, but if he did, would it still be diseased in a hive body ? Some hive bodies I built with new wood myself, almost all , if not all frames are new built by me, and new foundation. 

Any thoughts ? 

The bees really took off slow this year and last at my home ( fail ) location and never really did much. What should I be watching for at my other location to be pro-active in making sure I don't end up with the same whatever it is over there ?

thanks for any advice.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Translation please? I haven't run across the FGMO acronym before. 

Acronym Glossary:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesglossary.htm


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## Tim B (Apr 16, 2009)

Probably have european foulbrood infected combs. It rears its head during nectar dearths. If your brood is yellowish or you see melting larva it is rearing its head. It can remain in the combs from season to season. Combs can be disinfected by acetic acid fumigation for one week.


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## Joeinthehills (Jul 31, 2013)

what is oxytetracycline? I did not know their was a treatment for DWV or PMS?


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## Joeinthehills (Jul 31, 2013)

The 36 hr mite drop was around 375 +/- a few. this is a small colony only covering 5 1\2 frames they are working on drawing out the 6th and have laid a few in the freshly drawn comb on the 6th frame.

I was wondering if maybe the queen was showing hygienic behavior by allowing a break in the brood cycle ( she stopped laying for a while but has resumed as of friday 8-2) when I was inspecting, before placing the Apivar, I noticed allot of fresh eggs and larva. I'm hoping this new batch of youngins makes it ! Is this normal Queen behavior for a colony in distress? or am I seeing a failing Queen?


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## Tim B (Apr 16, 2009)

Oxytetracyclene is the antibiotic found in duravet and Terramycine. I have had moderate success in stopping the brood disease associated with parasitic mite syndrome with duravet. It is better than doing nothing.


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## AR Beekeeper (Sep 25, 2008)

Your colony was ready to collapse because of the number of varroa on the adult bees and the virusus infecting them and the brood the queen had laid. The queen will probably start to lay a good pattern when there are enough house bees to prepare the cells and care for the brood. It sounds as though your colony did not have the resistance needed to survive without treating, but I do not know the age of the colony. Next ime you requeen, you may want to requeen with a queen that has VSH and hygienic behavior, it will reduce the need to treat.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

I cannot imagine a varroa count of 375 now, but then I remember my first hive, which first swarmed and then absconded, and I probably had that count. Fortunately and unfortunately I live on a bee island, meaning if I get my bees clean they don't catch much as very few local honeybees, which means I'd best have enough genetic diversity to mate my queens in yard so to speak...

Good catch. I did not know there was any other use for terramycin besides EFB. Good to know.


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## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

For mites, I'd use just about any other product before I put antibiotics in the hive. Organic acid vapors (MAQS, oxalic) work fast and kill mites like crazy. They leave very little, if anything, behind in the wax. People I've talked to have been happy with Apivar, it's relatively benign and I'm guessing you don't expect to harvest honey.


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## chickenia (Apr 13, 2012)

I have been told if I use equipment that has had die off for unknown reasons, torch the inside of the box before using again. Temps in the barn may not be a steady freezing point to do what needs to be done for total kill of diseases from what I have read and heard. Hope this helps.


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## Zoo (Aug 13, 2013)

I have been speaking to a research scientist who has be working in a government funded research centre who has advised that they are looking at the correlation of GMC (genetically modified crops ) to bee mites and their increase potency to killing Bee's.

Have you heard of this been mentioned before.
As i feel that this could have some credibility as since the introduction of GMC the proliferation of diseases and mites infecting bee colonies with deadly consequences


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## HONEYDEW (Mar 9, 2007)

Tim B said:


> Probably have european foulbrood infected combs. It rears its head during nectar dearths. If your brood is yellowish or you see melting larva it is rearing its head. It can remain in the combs from season to season. Combs can be disinfected by acetic acid fumigation for one week.


this is a quote.." Chemical sterilisation with acetic acid....
Combs can be sterilised to destroy the spores of chalkbrood, wax moth, and Nosema disease of adult bees using the evaporation fumes from acetic acid, but there is no evidence that this treatment is effective against AFB or EFB." from National Bee Unit
Food and Environment Research Agency
Sand Hutton, York. YO41 1LZ
Telephone 01904 462510 email [email protected] NBU Web site: www.nationalbeeunit.com
May 2013
©Crown copyright. This sheet, excluding the logo, may be reproduced free of charge providing that it is reproduced accurately
and not used in a misleading way. The material must be acknowledged


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

I questioned the acetic acid to sterilize against EFB, but for myself, I took heat to melting point on plastics, melted the comb down, took heat to melting point or have burned wooden frames. Since EFB doesn't "spore", torching the inside of the boxes lightly is optional in my honest opinion, the bacteria end up in the wax in the cells having come out of the bees stomachs, but I think I will clean each box with a putty knife to remove wax and propylis, and then I may lightly torch the surface just to be safe. I lost way too many bees to want to go through this again.


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