# What's Really Raw?



## John F (Dec 9, 2005)

Thanx is really spelled thanks.

And you're welcome.









(feel smarter?)

Oh alright... I found this

http://www.reallyrawhoney.com/

Perhaps it will help.


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## John F (Dec 9, 2005)

Take a hunk of your comb honey and run it through a food processor (on really low) and let them try it out.

6.58 a pound (slightly grainy summer honey) is a pretty good price for wax isn't it?


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## Dick Allen (Sep 4, 2004)

when you visit their web site, check out the link to 'cappings'. "Mimi" explains why cappings are so very healthy for you and offers you an opportunity to buy a 14 oz. jar for $17.95.


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## Barry Digman (May 21, 2003)

> My question is "What is really raw honey?"


I had a woman ask me for really raw honey from the neighborhood. She'd heard I had a clandestine hive in my yard, and wanted some for a fellow battling cancer. I just pulled a medium frame and let her have it.

I would think that folks wanting "really raw" honey would pay a premium for a frame of uncapped honey. It could be displayed in supers stacked several high on a bottom board with an outer cover. Just lift the cover, pull a frame, and wrap it up in butcher paper. Doesn't get much rawer than that.


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## tarheit (Mar 26, 2003)

The best I've been able to figure out is that the honey marketed as 'really raw honey' is simply honey strait out of the extractor with all the bits of wax, etc. and is then creamed. (Having sampled the real 'really raw honey'). It seems pretty popular and I've had enough requests for it that I have it a try and it sells quite well. Whatever the customer wants...

-Tim


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## Alienor (Mar 16, 2005)

We sell "real raw honey" in nature comb in the frame. Small frames, 4" x 10" and about 1100g.
More "raw" isn't possible.
The germans are used to buy their honey bottled in a jar but all people from more southern countries are very happy with the frames.
We freeze the comb a week to be sure to have no wax moths inside.
Retail price is 14/kg plus taxes, consumer price differs from 23 up to 30/kg.
Few work, highest quality, best price.
Frames too curved to make nice comb were crushed and strained and sold as "dripped off honey" which sells also well at a group of very special people like anthroposophs and bio-label buyers.
Next year we hope to be able to pay for the bio license which is much expensive here but it's a label-whow and prices can be a little higher.....
(we're working like a bio certified company since 5 years but couldn't afford the costs for labeling)


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## bleakley (Jun 13, 2004)

'Preciate the feedback!

I've reviewed the web site John F referenced. Seems like they are interested in drawing (recruiting)other beekeepers into their service to the consumer. Interesting. Let's see what they say.

Don't believe that they can provide more raw or healthy honey than the rest of us do.


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

> It still contains pollen, propolis, honeycomb and live enzymes -- all the goodness the bees put in! 

INCLUDING THE BEES! Live enzymes = bugs. Well, parts of bees. If you ever picked up a jar and looked at it you see parts of bees. I don't mind picking bees out of honey or filtering them out, but I'm not ready to eat bugs yet.

If a customer wants bug parts in their honey, I guess I have plenty of them. I could save the gleanings when I clean out the extractor for those with discriminating tastes.


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## tarheit (Mar 26, 2003)

Umm... I do pick out any bees that make it in the extractor... I don't think most of my clients are ready for 'crunchy' honey










However, I did have one person ask for honey with worms in it. (Apparently where he grew up honey often has brood in it.) Could be a new market for someone who is using drone brood for varroa control.

-Tim


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## Hillside (Jul 12, 2004)

The guys at reallyrawhoney.com even sell fermented honey. From their description it sounds like partially fermented honey.

Don't you need some kind of license from the BATF to sell that stuff?


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

The only Raw honey is Comb Honey, I don't care what the Lady from Really Raw says!. All liquid honey out of the comb has been processed. I've been running back and forth to the honey house between posts tonight waiting for the extractor to finish draining. I can smell the wonderful sent of golden rod and bamboo in the honey house. that's flavor folks that is escaping. When our customer want raw honey (Like really raw) I run it right out of the extractor and bottle it without letting it settle. We do watch to make certain no stingers get through. 

On another strange request note I had people at our NYC markets asking me to bring in bags of dead bees. As long as they were fresh they would pay for them. I did it just out of curiosity but refused to take money for it. When I asked them what they did with the dead bees it turns out they use them to make a health tea that is they really have a great deal of faith in. Has anyone ever smashed a 3 or 4 day old dead bee in the honey house? I can't imagine, TEA!

[ October 17, 2006, 09:43 PM: Message edited by: Joel ]


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## Apuuli (May 17, 2006)

If someone wants honey "rawer" than a hunk of comb, you can always sell them a lovely arrangement of wildflowers and tell them to suck on it.

As the Bard wrote:
"Where the bee sucks, there suck I..."


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## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

_"sell them a lovely arrangement of wildflowers and tell them to suck on it."_

That's the funniest thing I've read on BeeSource
in months!

...now I need to find a paper towel and wipe
the coffee off my screen!


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## Wee3Bees Apiary (Feb 21, 2006)

I thought the sucking of a lovely arrangement of wildflowers was pretty hilarious also.


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## rache (Jun 22, 2006)

see, and here in jersey, we skip the bouquet and just tell folks to suck on it.


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

If I can stop from laughing, I post my 2 cents.

"What is really raw honey?"

Raw, 
Pure, 
Extreme, 
To The MAX DUDE!, 
The Essence
Virgin
Pure
Intense
Maximal
The Ultimatae in Unadulterated Pleasure!

To sum it up, its marketing. I'm convinced you can sell anything if you're a good marketer.

Unheated/minimal filtering is raw enough.
Or comb honey of course.


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## John F (Dec 9, 2005)

<gasp>

<cough>










That was funny. Too bad Jim's warning doesn't preceed the comment. Now I have to find a paper towel too!


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## [email protected]ossrounds (Aug 1, 2004)

Around here (Eastern NY), and moreso in Western NY Really Raw Honey is a big deal as most of their honey comes from just a few large beekeepers in the area.

Now, Mimi and her son are wonderful, honest, and very helpful people. And Mimi is a marketing genius. What they are selling is most definately not 'worth it' as a food sweetner, but it is being sold as an 'experience' and not as a food. As Tim said, 'give them what they want'.

Believe me, as beekeepers (mostly hobbyists) you really don't want to know the details of how it is produced. Sufficient to say that the honey is fully extracted, spun, and then cappings are added back to 'a certain volume'. Then the product is allowed to granulate.

We produce a great deal of comb honey, and when we produce Chunk we get a lot of waste cuttings. One year we decided to charge 25% more for honey that came from drippings from the comb. We quickly sold out. Then we decided to add 25% (by volume) cappings to the top of the drippings, and add another 25% premium. Again, we sell out. We are riding Mimi's coattails, but in very small volume, and with a far more attractive product (IMHO).

Try it.


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## BWrangler (Aug 14, 2002)

Hi Guys,

I've heard it's said that, you can get just about anybody to eat just about anything, if it's seasoned with enough praise. :>)

Regards
Dennis


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## bleakley (Jun 13, 2004)

Lloyd,

Thanks for your feedback.

I must say that I don't find the descriptions of the so-called Really Raw honey to be appealing or appetizing. But, the folks asking me about it have sure bought in to the experience, as you put it.

I have sent two inquiries to Really Raw via the email address listed on their web site. So far, no response from them.


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## tarheit (Mar 26, 2003)

People have definately bought into the experience. Even my wife who cringed at the thought of it the first time now prefers it on her toast. It's actually turned into a pretty good seller for me thanks to the Really Raw honey people. 

-Tim


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Right on, Joel. I label my comb honey with a sticker that says, "The Only Truely Raw Honey".

A couple of friends of mine produce honey for Really Raw. One uses a Dakota Gunnisse uncapper and lets the cappings from the uncapper go right into the sump from where all the honey is pumped into a tank with an agitator to keep the cappings suspended in the honey. From there it is pumped into the jars, through a jar filler.

Another guy uncaps his combs with a hivetool or cappings fork, right into the extractor. Into the sump tank and then it's pumped to another tank with an agitator. Similar to the above.

A fairly simple, yet laborious process. Each jar has to be inspected for undesirable stuff, like paint chips or bee parts or sometimes a piece of wire.

Really Raw seems to want their honey from NY so they can get the Goldenrod and Aster honey which sets up nicely at this time of year in mostly unheated storage.


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## kamerrill (Sep 17, 2003)

She has done a nice job doing a couple of things:

a) she has clearly defined her target market

b) she has a well developed brand identity that tells the story well - the name, the logo, the words and descriptions that she uses, all build her brand identity. 

It's quite well done (although I would never buy such a product - I'm not her target market). 

The industry as a whole would do well to understand her approach and the reason for her success. It is text book brand identity development.

A "like" industry that has established an industry-wide brand identity very well is maple syrup. And within that industry, examine some companies that use different packages and imagery for different target markets. For gift marketing, many companies package their "special" stock in high end glass containers, high end labeling, and wax dipped tops. Not for the tabletop market, but rather for a higher end gift market.

While I'm on the subject, I was aghast at an article that I read in a recent bee magazine where the author gave advice to the effect that do what pleases you not other people.... "I don't do bears".

Huh? Really? Perhaps good personal advice, but that has to be the worst business advice ever. From a business perspective, it's not about you - it's about your target market. This is something that RR Honey understands very well and has done a nice job building their brand.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Well said kamerrill.
I've been using flat top fliptops on my bears. A friend gave me a bag of conetops, so I used them. The produce manager said that they sold like hotcakes. Imagine that? A simple change in cap produced a spurt in sales. If I'd only known. I was using the fliptop because I thought that people would like the convenience of not loosing the cap. Why didn't anyone tell me.


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## BerkeyDavid (Jan 29, 2004)

Great thread!      

Just goes to show that people are not buying the product, they are buying their perception of the product. 

They are buying the experience of beekeeping.

They are trying to experience what we all love, chewing on a piece of honeycomb right from the hive on a warm summer day, just as our ancestors did thousands of years ago.

They are vicariously reconnecting to the natural world.

OK, time to suck on some hot coffee and chew some toast and honey.


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## Jeffrey Todd (Mar 17, 2006)

I have a question:
If Reallyraw honey is "totally unprocessed" as they claim (we will assume that uncapping it, by whatever method, and spinning it do not count as processing) how do they get their honey to be "creamy, smooth, and spreadable"? Is it creamed honey or just naturally-granulated. Must be naturally-granulated or they could not claim it is unprocessed. If anyone has tried their honey, I would be interested to know if it is as nice a consistency as creamed honey or if it is merely granulated.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>f Reallyraw honey is "totally unprocessed" as they claim (we will assume that uncapping it, by whatever method, and spinning it do not count as processing) how do they get their honey to be "creamy, smooth, and spreadable"? 

I don't think they do uncap it. I think they just mash the combs into a jar from the look of it. If it is crystallized quickly enough it makes good creamed honey without doing anything but keeping it somewhere close to 55 °F.


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## Cyndi (Apr 26, 2005)

I used to buy "Really Raw" honey from Whole Foods Market. It's very expensive, and lately I've noticed the quality and color is not there anymore, IMO. It used to be a really pretty light beige color, I never saw any bee parts, it was pretty fine, and usually floating on top, not throughout the entire jar. (I love their jars, which is probably what I was paying for). I liked the texture of it back in 2003, and it was convenient to purchase it from the WF's store. It was a refrigerated product too BTW. This is what inspired or should I say motivated me to become a beekeeper and do it myself.

However, last summer I bought some of Bob Bleakley's Mesquite honey....eating that honey was better than Really Raw's honey, it's like eating a piece of candy and it tastes so yummy, that Mesquite flavor. I bought 6 quarts...no, maybe 8?? I can't remember, all I know is that I only have 1 left. This year I plan on stocking up and hiding it from my dear family,


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## Barry Digman (May 21, 2003)

"I can't remember, all I know is that I only have 1 left. This year I plan on stocking up and hiding it from my dear family,"

Get in touch with Ken Garrison, Star G Honey, in Mosquero, New Mexico. He produces mesquite, but I don't know whether he has any on hand.


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## bleakley (Jun 13, 2004)

I've had no luck in getting a response from the Really Raw folks.  

*Cyndi*, thanks for the testimonial!







You're right, mesquite honey is very special. It sells out _quick_!  Makes you wish you had many more colonies.  

*Coyote*, what's with sending my customers elsewhere? Just kiddin'.


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## Barry Digman (May 21, 2003)

"Coyote, what's with sending my customers elsewhere? Just kiddin'."

Hey, at least I kept it in the state! And, like all native New Mexicans, my silence and my vote can be bought for the low, low price of a few pounds of mesquite honey or a sack of Hatch green.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Jeffry Todd,

I have a little experience with the production of this product. 

Basically what is done where I have helped produce this product is that the frames are uncapped into the extractor and the honey is pumped into a tank and the cappings are kept in suspension by stirring and the jars are filled from this tank. The honey is extracted in November and the full jars are kept in an unheated room so the crystalization process will proceed.

The stuff that I have seen, after crystalization has set up, is not creamy at all. I'm sure the customer has to heat it to use it. So, is it raw after that?


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## John Russell (Aug 8, 2003)

Raw. Huh.

Whenever a friend or family member travels I get them to pick up a small jar of local honey. 
The honey I've been given from Armenia, Columbia, Cuba, Afghanistan, Jakarta, Africa, and it all had wax and wings.

Like it was mentioned above, $3.00 a pound for wax and wings.....No Problem!

John Russell
honeyb.ca


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## Jeffrey Todd (Mar 17, 2006)

Mark,
A belated "thanks" for your reply. That is the best description of what the product really is and what consumers are getting.


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