# JB 700 Vaporizer



## dgl1948 (Oct 5, 2005)

My first go with this vaporizer was disappointing. The pan did not seem to get hot enough to vaporize the acid. It would bubble up and bridge over. 
I checked the pan temps with a infrared thermometer and found the temps were no where near those indicated by Hienz. The thermostat is placed directly above the heating element. Hienz suggested moving it to the side of the pan. When I did this things went a lot better. I was getting higher temps and the pan would be clean after use. The thermostat is still a problem as it would not cut in until it was reaching very low temps. This has to addressed yet. 
There were some comments about the electric cable mounting issues. I solved this by folding the cable back and clamping it to the housing. 
I would like to see the issue of fan maintenance addressed. Right now it would be next to impossible to change. 
It was suggested tha there be an issue with to much moisture in the acid. I dryed some acid to try. I found that it worked the same as the acid I did not. The key is having the pan getting hot enough and holding the temperature there to vaporize the acid. 
I did a little over 150 hives in about 3 hours yesterday. Our hives are wrapped for winter so this slowed thing down a lot. 
I made a different nozzle for the unit today. It should help with the wrapped hives so I will try it tomorrow


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## dgl1948 (Oct 5, 2005)

Did 2 more yards yesterday. No real issues. I am waiting on a thermostat that is being sent. We will see if it improves the cut in temps. The first yard had 48 hives and they are wrapped. I timed myself on that yard and it took 50 minutes to do the 48.


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

How much acid are you adding to the unit at a time? Heinz recommends 5gm per load. I have been using 10gms and have ended up with a white paste residue in the bowl that needs to be scraped out. I also get the bridging but I push it down with a hive tool and it continues to vaporize.


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

1 min/hive seems fairly reasonnable. Nothing fantastic but still manageable. Even with 1000 hives, that would mean all colonies could be treated in 2 days. This can be a good tool for those with a few hundred hives who don't have the budget to purchase a vmVaporizer.

We have similar issues that Cam describes with the vmVaporizer. If we try to speed up the process by putting large amounts of oxalic into the gun we end up slowing the process down. We are asking our equipment to work beyond it's capacity and the end result is slower. By overloading the gun, we end up with oxalic not getting burnt and we need to spend time to clean the gun. Sometimes you can be faster by slowing down. Work within the capacities of the equipment and all is fine, try pushing things and all hell brakes loose.

Jean-Marc


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

That's the nice part about treating late in the fall. No real push to get it all done yesterday


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Agree with Ian. A nice feature of the jb 700 is that it is made of plastic. I have some 5 frame styrofoam nucs and the entrances are made by drilling a hole and inserting some pvc pipe. If the nozzle is not inserted in the jb 700 the area where the nozzle is suppose to fit will go around the entrance of the 5 frame nucs. It would make it relativly easy to treat those styrofoam without melting the styrofoam nuc when treating. I have not tried it yet, but it should work. We likely would have to "crack" the lid so the oxalic fumes could be blown into the nuc.

Jean-Marc


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## Maybee Apiaries (Jun 23, 2016)

What are you guys using as a power source for the JB 700? I was told a battery would last hours before losing charge but mine lost power in the first yard. Not sure if the battery is still good.


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## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

I use a lawn tractor, drive it out back then move it between hive stands. It doesn't stay running long enough to put any apprciable charge back in between stands, but the battery has no problem starting the tractor after doing 20. The unit draws 12 amps when the heater is on, so even a little 8ah battery should last 20 minutes (half the 8ah) of heater on time.


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## dynemd (Aug 27, 2013)

What size battery are you using? Do you know how many amp hours (ah) it's rated?


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## beecavalier (Jan 30, 2014)

Really enjoying my JB 700...even with its issues.

I've modified the vent tube for my application (now can swivel)...and mounted a wood base to keep it perfectly level. This eliminates holding the unit by hand while vaporizing and loading.

I load the unit with 4 grams...first two grams are vaporized during the *first* hive treatment and coincides with the first warm-up/ cool-down cycle time. The second two grams are vaporized on the next two cycles (into the next hive)...just to give a bit more time to burn out the OA holding tray. Then I reload...first pushing down the bridged OA and then adding another 4 grams. It's adds a bit more bother but I really like what I see this time of year for mite drop. I just have to confirm that I am getting next to 90% of the mites during each treatment now as the hives should be broodless. And I suspect that 15% mite kill when doing each OA treatment with brood around could be accurate. Any thoughts?

Haven't tried stuffing 10 grams in...wouldn't there be a lot of scale bridging over the burner?

The sizing of the fan output gently puts the right amount of air pressure on the vapor to drive it into the hive.

I'm a little reluctant to change the location of the temperature sensor...i.e. heat the burner pan more. Right now there's a lot of OA crystals depositing on the piping...and likely in the hive.


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## dgl1948 (Oct 5, 2005)

camero7 said:


> How much acid are you adding to the unit at a time? Heinz recommends 5gm per load. I have been using 10gms and have ended up with a white paste residue in the bowl that needs to be scraped out. I also get the bridging but I push it down with a hive tool and it continues to vaporize.


I am using a good 10 grams. Have you moved the thermostat to the side of the pan. My thermostat was originally at the beck of the pan right above the element. This would cause the heat to cut off before the pan got hot enough to vaporize the acid. Once I moved mine the pan was clean after every load. The thermostat is just clipped on. Use needle nose pliers to move it.


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## dgl1948 (Oct 5, 2005)

I have been using 2 deep cycle batteries I can get about 80 hives per battery. 

I also modified the discharge pipe. Our hives are wrapped and the entrances are about a half inch. I bought a length of pipe and heated about 12 inches of it and pressed it flat so it could slip into the hive. I then cut a posse a plywood so it was 4 inches by 15 inches. Then I cut a slot in it so it would slide over the nozzle and come to a stop when it reaches the round portion of the pipe. I then put a thick piece of foam rubber on the plywood. The nozzle will now slide into the hive far enough it will hold itself in place and the foam seals the entrance keeping more of the vapour in the hive. 

We have one of the styrofoam hives to try this year. The 700 worked real well with it.


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## dgl1948 (Oct 5, 2005)

Just a note about the glow plug. If it heats to over 210c it will burn out. I used an infrared thermometer to check the pan temps.


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## dgl1948 (Oct 5, 2005)

I am able to do about 250 a day now. Days are not that long now and those 5 yards are spread over about 80 kilometres so moving takes a good portion of the time. If they were in one location I think 500 would be doable.


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## dynemd (Aug 27, 2013)

dgl1948 said:


> Just a note about the glow plug. If it heats to over 210c it will burn out. I used an infrared thermometer to check the pan temps.


Just asking but how did you arrive at this figure?


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## dgl1948 (Oct 5, 2005)

Heinz told me there is a small black ring where the wire attaches to the glo plug. It will melt at 210 and the plug will then burn out.


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

250 seems reasonnable. You would do 500-600 including the driving with a vmVaporizer as would most others. The decision becomes, the value of your time vs the initial outlay of cash to get the downtown model.

Jean-Marc


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## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

Hi guys, I could do around 500 per day with measured 2 gram doses with my $10 home made vaporizer.
Johno


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## jbeshearse (Oct 7, 2009)

johno said:


> Hi guys, I could do around 500 per day with measured 2 gram doses with my $10 home made vaporizer.
> Johno


Really�� 24 hours a day times 60 minutes gives you 1440 minutes in a day. Divided by the 500 you say you could do that gives you 2.88 minutes to per treatment, including set up movement, etc. and that's for a 24 hour day.


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## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

With a 5 minute set up, you could treat a hive per minute plus the time in seconds to move to the next hive. I don't know how many hives you would have in a single yard, maybe 500 is too many so I did not take into account moving to other yards but if they all in 1 yard it would be possible to do in around 12 hours. I do not do that many as my yards do not have more than 14 hives.
Johno


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## jvalentour (Sep 4, 2014)

For a keep with 30-50 hives is the JB 700 worth the investment?
I know I have 20 hours invested into OA treatments this year.
Does it hold up well with use over time (years)?

I can see it expensive for the first year but years 2-? could be a decent return in time.


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## Maybee Apiaries (Jun 23, 2016)

jvalentour said:


> For a keep with 30-50 hives is the JB 700 worth the investment?
> I know I have 20 hours invested into OA treatments this year.
> Does it hold up well with use over time (years)?
> 
> I can see it expensive for the first year but years 2-? could be a decent return in time.


I think it would be perfect for 30-50 hives
A little early to tell how durable it is, but the parts are easily replaced. The real test will be how the wiring and connections hold up with exposure to OA.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

I have forty some hives and the jb700. It is an iffy machine. Just good enough and real expensive for what it is. I wish apivar still worked reliably.


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## dgl1948 (Oct 5, 2005)

I used this machine this fall. With our sized operation we could not justify the VM Vapourizer as yet. Our operation is expanding so that may be in the future. Until this year our mite treatments consisted of running several Varrox Vaporizers. They worked fine but were very time consuming. Is the JB 700 worth the cost. Yes and no. There certainly is not $500.00 in materiaal and craftmanship. But having said that we have ours working fine now. It took a bit of back and forth communication with Hienz, who is great to work with. To start with we were not getting good vaporization with it and would have the acid develop a crust in the pan and would not be completely used up. Moving the themostat from the back above the element to the side of the pan let the pan temps increase to where the acid was used up completely. Hienz has since sent us a different thermostat that is giving a better temperature range and worked out very well. How will it stand the test of time will yet to be determined. We went from taking about 5 good days for each round of treatment with our old method to 1 day with the 700. Is it worth the price tag? We figured that if it saved a couple more hives in the first year it would have payed for itself. There is also a good saving when using Oxalic acid verses the other forms of treatment as well.

The ony real maintenance issue that may be a problem could be with the fan. There is no way to take the housing appart to replace it. The rest can be maintained very easily. The other issue is it is hard to know if you are getting the right dossage in each hive unless you just put a singe dosage in the machine. As our hives were wrapped and in units of 4 we would do 2 with each loading. If we had of had this unit before wrapping I would have done 4 to a load. Using 2 real good deep cycle batteries you can get 200 to 250 hives done.

For those with 40 to 50 hives is it overkill. I guess that depends on how you value your time. If you have lots of spare time there is nothing wrong with the Varrox vaporizer. It works fine and is easy to apply a measured doseage. If you value your time it can sure speed things up. I would not be afarid to tacke a 1,000 hives per year with this unit.


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## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

dgl1948 said:


> For those with 40 to 50 hives is it overkill. I guess that depends on how you value your time.


I have 20 this year, going to somewhere between 30 and 40 next year. My time is my most precious commodity, I found the JB700 a tough cooking to swallow the purchase price initially, right up until I used it the first time. I had all the same issues as you did, and ended up with the same fixes, in that respect Heinz was very good to work with ironing things out. Before I got the jb700, I used a single Jb200 to vaporize the hives here. For me, batteries not an issue, I just drive the lawn tractor into the back lot and run the vaporizer off it's battery. Our hives are on stands because the ground is constantly wet thru the winter, we had over 500mm of rain thru November this year so I do have to move the tractor from stand to stand. Using the lawn tractor and the JB200 its about 90 minutes doing 20 colonies from start to finish. Using the Jb700, I can be into the yard and back to the office in under half an hour. In my case, that means vaporizing can and will be done on the right schedule, whereas before it meant sometimes I had to wait a few days till there was enough free time to go do it.

I think it was a worthwhile investment, even with 20. Assuming I get 5+ years service out of it, it'll save me many hours of fussing with the pan style vaporizer. I could have bought a couple more pans to speed that process up, but that would cost as much as the blower, so, I bought the blower instead.


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## beecavalier (Jan 30, 2014)

Well said Grozzie2...my experience also...much more enjoyable treating with this unit.

Just curious...Are your hives broodless now? Have you done any recent treatments that indicate mite infestation levels dropping?


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## Beekkirk (Mar 7, 2014)

Next year im planning on running about 6 varrox vaporizers at a time all hooked up to a single knife switch to the truck. $840 worth of equipment and an extremely easy tool to resell on craigslist to a newbie. Could probably get back $500. I have beaten the crap out the varrox. They both vaporize like the day I bought them and still look decent after hundreds of uses. Nothing beats simplicity.
While im waiting the aprox. 3 minutes i usually do small bee yard chores like weed wacking, feeding, getting equipment ready, nuc boxes ready, hanging bacon on the fence, etc. The actual time dedicated to vaporizing is very minimal. Using 2 varrox vaporizers turned out to take me the same time as using my lega unit because your dedicated to holding the device the whole time. Using 6 varrox I predict I can do my 24 hive yards in 18 minutes. Nothing can beat that and I am confident in the vapors and dose being made.


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## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

beecavalier said:


> Just curious...Are your hives broodless now? Have you done any recent treatments that indicate mite infestation levels dropping?


I dont have my notes handy, from memory, the last treatment was about 5 or 6 weeks ago. I had zero drops on those with sticky boards on that round, so I'm pretty sure levels were low. We will hit them again in early January.

As for the brood, I haven't looked in them for quite some time. It's raining almost non-stop these days, no sense opening any hives now. We tend to button them up in early October then not lift a lid till it's time for patties in February.


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## jvalentour (Sep 4, 2014)

With that much vapor in the air, what kind of breathing filter are your wearing?


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## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

As a matter of interest I have purposefully been wearing a paper mask with 2 elastic bands, I started doing this while experimenting with a 120 volt band heater vaporizer that I had built. There had been much theorizing about the breakdown of OA if the appliance was too hot so I was interested to see if I could smell any FA fumes in the vapor plume. Well I did not smell any FA fumes and as I believed that the OA vapor was tiny OA crystal particles I could not smell any OA either. As an aside the vaporizer was at times heated to 500F.
Johno


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## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

jvalentour said:


> With that much vapor in the air, what kind of breathing filter are your wearing?


I was wearing a respirator when doing the hives, not sure offhand what brand etc, it's the one sold by the folks at Medivet where we get the oxalic acid crystals. I absolutely wouldn't try using the blower without it. The respirator isn't expensive, we paid $50 each for a pair of them at the Medivet table at a recent tradeshow.


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## ABruce (Dec 27, 2013)

grozzie2 said:


> I dont have my notes handy, from memory, the last treatment was about 5 or 6 weeks ago. I had zero drops on those with sticky boards on that round, so I'm pretty sure levels were low. We will hit them again in early January.
> 
> As for the brood, I haven't looked in them for quite some time. It's raining almost non-stop these days, no sense opening any hives now. We tend to button them up in early October then not lift a lid till it's time for patties in February.


So are you considering this the only treatment you will do for the spring? I assume the bees are in a cluster . does this affect the mite kill? We button our hives here in October and hope to open them up for patties and maybe some sugar candy in February. I have the varrox applicator but I have winter wraps on and the applicator doesnt fit thru , plus i have to change the entrance reducers so its a pain. 
Is your goal to go strictly to OAV treatment spring and fall, or are you still using something else at some point. The cost of the unit is a drawback but if it could replace the other treatments its cost vs benefit looks very favorable.
thanks


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## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

ABruce said:


> So are you considering this the only treatment you will do for the spring?


I will use the blower to do a round in January, hit them when they are supposed to be broodless. We will give them a round of formic during the break between raspberries and taking them up to fireweed mid summer.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

With the new ProVap 110, there is no need to open a hive or insert a wand to treat, you have an accurate OA dose and it takes all of 20 seconds per hive............ Just sayin..........


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