# Newbie needs help from Beekeeper in Edmonton area.



## briancady413 (Dec 8, 2003)

Konrad, you might try posting this again with a different, more specific title, asking for just what you want. I think this might help, but am not sure.

Brian Cady


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Ian, where are you!







I know its a lowly one hive hobbiest, and not the typical 2500 hive commercial operator you are accustomed too, but can you help this soon to be #1 beekeeper of the Edmonton area, if not of all Canada.

I'm not sure if Ian is even close, but it really felt good saying that. Sorry Ian.(Ian will understand.)









Konrad, are you Canadian? You didn't say "eh" once in your post. Try that next time, I hear it helps.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I changed the topic. Hope that helps.


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## Antero (Jan 9, 2005)

Konrad---Try to get the video tapes Honey bee & beekeeping "A Year In The Life Of An Apiary"
Entomologist Dr.Keith Delaplane
Excellent videos
I got them from the University Of Guelph by mail.

Terry


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

>>but it really felt good saying that

BjornBee, Ha ha
who would of known it, a hobbiest in Canada, Eh,.?

Not close to you at all, but all you need is your new found friends here at beesource. We will guide you straight, if you ask. But be cautious, there are many beekeepers here alike, with unalike advice,..


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## Dick Allen (Sep 4, 2004)

But be cautious, there are many beekeepers here alike, with unalike advice,.. 

Wow Ian, that's just like down here in the U.S. (or should I say up here where I live?)


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## Konrad (Oct 7, 2004)

Thank you all!
OK. to all of you, by request by BjornBee....my background:
Yes, I'm Canadian Citizen, for close to 25 Years, grown up on a Farm in Switzerland and finished apprentice [4 Years] as a Machinist, tool & die maker.

I have traveled the USA by Greyhound about 25 Years ago.. started south from Vancouver, all along the coast, have stopped in larger Cities for a few days, like Sanfrancisco, Los Angeles, San Diego El Paso, Dallas, New Orleans, Miami, Orlando, Syracuse, & Washington
I loved it very much, I think USA is a great Country!!!
Ooo..have seen Mt. Rushmore, Yellowstone Park, Monument Valley, in Utah the Arches National Park....Just
wonderful places to visit.
Have Skied in Whitefish Montana many many times, when I lived in southern Alberta, Lethbridge, for a number of Years......
And love to come back!

Back to business, I mean Hobby,
I really do learn allot here! Yes, if no one takes me, I'm on my own and I know, you Guys will pull me thru,
thick and thin!

I think I start right now....have ordered a package of bees and I think I will go with all med. boxes, just like
Michael does....makes sense, easy.
How many do you think I will stack them, [total]? I would think, I have to buy 4 boxes, x 8 or 9 frames
apr. 40 frames with wax foundation right?
bottom board, top cover, stand, inner cover, SBB, Queen excluder if needed.

According to the book a read, I should clip the Queens wing right?
Well I hope the Beesupply place can do it for me, if not clipped already.

There should be instruction, on how to release the bees in box with Queen Gage, right?
That should do for now.

As for tools... I have a smoker, Hat with Vail.
Do I need anything else for now?

Michael, should I have started a new thread??
If so...could you do it please..
thanks,
Konrad


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## Antero (Jan 9, 2005)

Hiving Package Bees: Have your hive ready before the package bees arrive. Be sure the hive has been
provided with honey or sugar syrup for feed. The entrance of the hive should be reduced to a width of about 2
inches by stuffing grass or newspaper into the entrance slot. Do not close the entrance completely because the
bees might smother.

Take the cover off the package, remove the feed can, and remove the queen cage. This procedure is made easier
by prying the can up with a hive tool, then gently banging the package down on the ground to dislodge the bees from the can and the queen cage. Look in the queen cage to make sure the queen is alive. If the queen is dead,
telephone us immediately for a replacement. Remove the cork from the candy end of the queen cage and hang the
queen cage, candy end down, between two of the center frames in your hive. The bees must have access to the
screen on the queen cage. At this point, you may remove four of the outside frames and set the package of bees
into the hive with queen and can removed, then cover the hive and allow the bees to crawl out.

Another method is to turn the shipping cage bottom up, over the hive and shake the bees into the hive making sure
some of them fall between the frames where the queen cage is hung. Cover the hive and do not disturb it for at least a week. After one week the queen should be out of her cage and should have eggs laid in one or two combs. If you have started the hive on foundation only, the bees should be drawing out two or three sheets of the foundation. Starvation of the bees is the biggest hazard to successful establishment of the package of bees. Continue to feed them, taking care not to get robbing started, until you are sure the bees are producing enough honey to maintain themselves.


Terry


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I think I start right now....have ordered a package of bees and I think I will go with all med. boxes, just like
Michael does....makes sense, easy.

That's a plan.

>How many do you think I will stack them, [total]? I would think, I have to buy 4 boxes, x 8 or 9 frames

I'd plan on ten frames to a box until you have drawn comb, then I'd put 8 or 9 in the supers and 10 in the brood boxes. How many you will need is hard to predict, but I've had hives that were 8 or 10 hive. Since you're starting with a package it probably won't get that big. Having 8 boxes around wouldn't hurt, but you could start with three or four. Just remember the population can double in a month. So plan ahead.

>apr. 40 frames with wax foundation right?
bottom board, top cover, stand, inner cover, SBB, Queen excluder if needed.

You can skip the bottom board if you have a Screened bottom baord. One or the other will do. I don't use a stand. A couple of concrete blocks. some short pieces of treated lumber or some bricks can do for a stand. A queen excluder is optional. You need to decide if you want to go with wax or plastic and if you want to go with small cell or "regular" large cell. If you go with wax, you need to decide if you want to wire it.

>According to the book a read, I should clip the Queens wing right?

I've had them clipped and not. The bees will still swarm if they make up their mind, they will just leave with one of the virgins after a couple of tries with the clipped queen. Clip her if you want.

>Well I hope the Beesupply place can do it for me, if not clipped already.

Most charge you for it. If you want to do it yourself, practice catching and clipping drones first. It takes some practice to catch a qheen and hold her without hurting her.

>There should be instruction, on how to release the bees in box with Queen Gage, right?

Maybe. Typical is to take out the cork, put a small hole through the candy and put the queen in the middle of the hive with the screen facing down. I often do a direct release with a package. The bees are used to the queen, but then IF I do a direct release I usually put an excluder on the bottom board to keep them from absconding.

>As for tools... I have a smoker, Hat with Vail.
Do I need anything else for now?

Some kind of flat bar for a hive tool.


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## Antero (Jan 9, 2005)

Just a note: I put the queen cage in with the exit hole facing down, and the queen attendants died and blocked the exit hole. I suggest you put the cage in with the exit hole facing upward.


Terry


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I guess I put them in with the exit hole to the side and the screen wire down in the gap between the bars. But you are right, don't ub the exit hole down. If you put it up, make sure the bees can get to it and it's not blocked by a frame above or a lid above.


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## Todd Zeiner (Jun 15, 2004)

Konrad, make sure when you open the queen cage, open the end with the candy. It is easy to get confused in the "heat of the moment" Luckily when I did it, the queen didn't fly out.


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## Konrad (Oct 7, 2004)

Thank you soo.. much everyone!

How many of you are clipping Queens Wing?
The book shoes, holding here with your bare fingers....does she ever sting??
I read, when clipped, the swarm is usually close to the hive, and not far up somewhere high on a tree.
And at times, when the bees realized, that they are missing the Queen, they actually go back into the hive ?? did that ever happened to you?

You guys making me all nervous with that Queen release!.....  
But I have to stay cool...try anyway! 

I see, most of you south are "going" already, well, here up north, the ground starts to unfreeze in April!
Konrad


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## Antero (Jan 9, 2005)

< Many bee books recommend clipping a queens wings so she can not fly away with a swarm. Our experience is the queen drops to the ground and is lost to the swarm of bees. The swarm returns to the hive -- some of the bees will gather on the ground with the queen. Once the virgin queens emerge from their cells, one of these virgin queens will take off with the swarm following behind. Some swarms have been found to have a dozen or more virgin queen in them.Some beekeepers clip the wings of their queens. We would recommend that you practice this with drones before you begin with a queen. The reason to clip a queens wing are : a beekeeper might prevent the loss of a valuable queen, try to prevent a hive from swarming, and a system to kept track of how old a queen is by cutting wings on alternate sides from year to year>


Terry


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>How many of you are clipping Queens Wing?

I don't. I have bought them clipped many years ago and couldn't see that it mattered that much.

>The book shoes, holding here with your bare fingers....does she ever sting??

Not often. Sometimes, yes. Usually she seems to be trying but not succeeding.

>I read, when clipped, the swarm is usually close to the hive, and not far up somewhere high on a tree.

If you catch it. If not they will go back in the hive and try again tommorow and the next day and sooner or later they will leave with one of the virgins instead.

>And at times, when the bees realized, that they are missing the Queen, they actually go back into the hive ?? 

Yes.

>did that ever happened to you?

Yes.

>You guys making me all nervous with that Queen release!..... 
But I have to stay cool...try anyway! 

9 times out of 10 you can direct release a queen with no problems. But the 10th time they ball her and she dies. So everyone tries to even the odds so that won't happen.


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Konrad:

You can call the Alberta Honey Producers Co-op at (780) 962-5667. They can take care of all your equipment needs. You could also shell out $20 and place an ad in the Alberta bee news.(780) 489-6949 I'm pretty confident you would get some response. You could also find used equipment in their classified ads. The Edmonton area has a beekeeping club, mostly hobbiests. I don't know how to get a hold of them, but someone at either number should be able to help.

Jean-Marc


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## Konrad (Oct 7, 2004)

Thank you everyone!
I have good news....... I have found the Edmonton... http://www.geocities.com/edmontonbeekeepers/ and I got an answer in only one day, from the President Malcolm Connell 
They will have a course coming this summer and looks like yearly membership is less....$25 instead $ 50.00 at [Alberta Beekeeper......[where I never got an answer!]
I was asking for used equipment, but they said, I should buy all new frames and new bottom two boxes to ensure less disease
and better survival over Winter.
Konrad


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## Konrad (Oct 7, 2004)

There is a Beekeeper near by about 8 miles from me, he has 2000 hives, [just found out] and I asked him, if he has something
for sale and here is his reply:

We have some equipment that was left with us several years ago by a 
gentleman that was going to go into bees but changed his mind. We put our 
frames in the supers as the quality of his was poor.

The bottom and lid (tin covered) and painted white are $15.00
Supers are silver and $10.00 each
Filled with frames Add $ 15.00 for each super

In review 5 boxes with top and bottom Total $140.00
_________________________________________________________

Now....what do I look for, when I purchase some of the equipment, other then size and not rotten wood, as I was reading, size is very important and should be......
The interior dimensions of the supers should be 18 5/6" by 14 15/16" by either 9 5/8" or 6 1/2" deep. 
Anything else I have to watch out for??

I was going with mediums only.....but if the price is right why not buy it....so what do you think.......should I go for it??
He says, 5 Boxes and frames....does that mean I get 50 frames with it??
Konrad


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## dcross (Jan 20, 2003)

<<In review 5 boxes with top and bottom Total $140.00

Anything else I have to watch out for??>>

$140 Canadian=$114 US(today)

I would keep looking. With drawn comb, if he's willing to give you a no-AFB guarantee, it's not a BAD deal, but you could probably do better.


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## Konrad (Oct 7, 2004)

Thank you dcross!
Yes, I'm still looking around for medium, or shallow supper with frames.
When buying frames with drawn comb, what do I have look out for??
How old they can be, before new foundation have to be put on?

Are most of you Beekeeper putting on your own foundation??
I guess, I will learn that at the beekeeping course, I hope!
Konrad


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## dcross (Jan 20, 2003)

<<When buying frames with drawn comb, what do I have look out for??>>

American Foulbrood (AFB) is the biggest thing. Do a search, you'll find LOTS of info on it.

I would also be concerned about miticides, they build up in the wax. But I have no idea how to check for them.

<<How old they can be, before new foundation have to be put on?>>

I've used comb that had been sitting for at least a decade, but it had never been used for brood, and the bees still chewed it up until the flow started, then they decided it was good enough, and they've had no problem with it since.

<<I guess, I will learn that at the beekeeping course, I hope!>>

Ask 3 beekeepers, get 5 opinions!


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## John Schneider (Mar 1, 2005)

Konrad, I just bought new boxes, frames, etc. and bee package from Bee-maid in Spruce Grove yesterday. I know nothing!!! The more I read, the more I realize how little I know. Oh, well...nothing like jumping in with both feet. I also bought a book....I forget the exact title as I do not have it in front of me. Something about Beekeeping in Western Canada...it was $27 and appears to be worth it so far. We have 40 acres just west of Edmonton and are hoping for enough honey for ourselves and Christmas presents for family etc.! Very exciting so far.

John


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

>>Something about Beekeeping in Western Canada...it was $27 and appears to be worth it so far

Very good book to have. I also bought that one when I started beekeeping. A little more of a regional look into beekeeping than my Bee Bible,...


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## Konrad (Oct 7, 2004)

Thank you all!
John,
Nice to see you here! 
You are the first local I have met here, I live just a bit south east of the City, Beaumont.
Have a hobby garden plot just 10 min out of Beaumont on 5 acres. If you like, you could give me a private E-mail, to see how things go between our hives, mine is also ordered, same place.
Perhaps you might want to join the bee club?
I will be going to the first meeting at March 24, at Bee Maid Coop, 70 Alberta Rd. Spruce Grove 

I'm buying all new equipment for my first hive, but not sure yet if I should go with wax or
plastic?
They say, allot of beekeeper go this way, because the plastic foundation [wax sprayed]
just snaps into the frame, no more wiring.

Do you Guys like the plastic ones?
Konrad


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## John Schneider (Mar 1, 2005)

Konrad...I will shoot you an e-mail and we can chat from time to time. I went with plastic only because the lady at the coop said I should. I will eventually build my own stuff if I get into this a bit more and the less plastic in the world, the better. It was pretty easy to set up though! I am reading up now on hiving a package and overwintering...I am nervous about both of those endeavours, but at least with the wintering I have quite a few months to figure it all out. Hiving is the issue that is coming up right away though! It will be a little nerve wracking to open up a $150 package of bees and hope that they all don't just fly away!!!LOL


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

You can put an excluder on the bottom board to help insure the queen can't leave and therefore the bees will be more likely to stay. Once there's some open brood, you can pull it. They won't go anywhere after that.


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## John Schneider (Mar 1, 2005)

That's right Michael...she did mention to slide the bar across the opening for a couple days I think. I will be sure to get complete instructions before I leave the co-op with my package. I already have the feeding tray and a couple packages of pollen in the fridge.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

I suggest not to hive them during the day, when it is fairly warm outside. I like to hive them after supper hour or more before dusk. More bees will take up and fly during the day. But packaging just a few compared to a yard eliminates the drifting problem


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## Konrad (Oct 7, 2004)

Thank you all!

Yes, today finally, it was my turn for "Installing"

It was a Arataki Tube Package from New Zealand....actually I ordered another one, just a week ago, [2 total] have listen to some of you, who have mentioned, that it would be good, so you can see both and have something to compare with.
It was actually a miserable day for installing them, a cold front is just moving in, yesterday we had 75 degree & today 37.4 [Fahrenheit] and getting colder, snow in the forecast, so I figured I have to do it, no sense of waiting, if it gets worse!
At times it was rain, mixed with snow, just a bit.....

The Instruction on the tube says....remove lid, pull out material strip with Queen by pulling material from the tube. Tip bees from tube with sharp tap into hive. Release Queen into the hive.

OK...I'm pulling on this strip, there comes this long snake like thing coming out of the tube, full of bees, laid it on top of bars....looking for the Queen cage...here she is, full of bees, I just put the cage for the time being between frame, then knocked the tube with my fist on top to get the bees out, so far so good....but releasing the Queen as it says I didn't want to do, so I'm looking for the candy, all the way around, can't find no candy, so I figured I go for the Cork next, first I have to get a Nail for digging it out, I'm digging and digging finally, I'm noticing, I'm not wearing my gloves.....bees allover my hands, still digging...pop, the cork flu away and I was expecting a candy, no candy and I'm looking at the Queen....oh no, what now...stay calm, I then just put the cage back down, just below the top bars. I didn't see the Queen coming out, just some worker bees went in and I hoped for the best......

On the other package,.... when I was digging for the cork, instead of coming out, I pushed it further in....oh no,the cork was in....getting exited again, I then just put the cage down and have witnessed the Queen coming out and walking freely.

It was sure an exiting afternoon for me and I like to thank all of you, for helping me along the way!!!!    
Konrad


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## John Schneider (Mar 1, 2005)

Konrad...too funny! I installed the exact same package last night. You were right, very cold...but I think that will help over the next few days to keep them in the hive! Here is my first hiving story!!

OK...I have the hive all ready to go. Frame feeder full of syrup middle three frames on the ground beside the hive. I popped the staples from the tube and rapped it on the ground...removed the cap and then rolled them into the bottom of the hive...along with the queen cage and long stringy mesh (what the heck was that thing in there for???). OK, don't panic...the whole family is standing back aways watching as a small swarm of bees waves around my head and I now have to reach into the hive to get the queen cage...wham! One sting! Got the queen cage open and simply laid it on the bottom of the hive. I did notice that already, the bees were all over the frames and into the feeder. The queen walked out of her cage and replaced some frames and closed it up. I went out this morning and put my ear up the hive and heard a contented "buzz". I hope that the queen is alright, but we will see in a few weeks.


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## Konrad (Oct 7, 2004)

John...
Well done!
That material strip was soaked with syrup for the trip....I think?

I checked on them tonight, just listen after a slight knock on the box,...sounds OK.
Have noticed, allot of splatter from relieving themselves!....good so. I'm sure those bees where quite stressed on this long journey and have suffered allot, lots of dead bees on installment, I'm sure a couple of hundred, the bottom board was just covered! Hope they can pull thru and the wetter is getting warmer, this morning was minus 4degree. Celsius...freezing!
I have put insulation around.
Konrad


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## KyBee (Mar 1, 2005)

You guys are so funny! I love your stories. Makes me feel better about my package installation. 

I was so clumsy and forgot a bunch of stuff. It was getting really dark and I dumped a little pile of bees on the ground and we were out there with a flashlight trying to find them. My husband was picking them up, one by one, carrying them to the hive entrance and nudging them in. Talking to them like they were kids or puppies or something. :0)

"Go on in now," he'd say. "No, not that way! You can't stay outside. It's gonna be cold tonight!" 

One crawled up my shoe and onto my ankle and of course my pant leg touched her and she nailed me. OW! Not her fault. 

And then I couldn't see cuz he had the flashlight looking for bees on the ground in the mulch and I picked up the box to dump the rest of the bees in and I grabbed a bee in the dark and she nailed me on the finger. OW! SH--! Not her fault. 

Then I closed the hive up and forgot to put the rest of the frames back in and finally I just said forget it. So that hive got to live with only half their frames for a few days. 

They stayed in spite of how clumsy I was. 

I left the cork in since mine had only been together for 12 hours, so I went back in two days later to pull out the cork. My husband takes the needlenose pliers and pulls the cork out to expose the candy. NO CANDY! AAAAAAAHHHHH! WHERE'S THE CANDY???? YOU PULLED THE CORK OUT OF THE WRONG END!!! He poked the cork back in. We looked at the other end. NO CANDY!!!! Bees are now buzzing all around my head and they're crawling on our hands. No gloves, after all packages are supposed to be gentle right? The glutton attendants have EATEN ALL THE CANDY!!!! WHAT DO WE DO NOW???? 

We shrugged and pulled the cork back out and put the queen cage in and prayed. 

Two days later there were eggs in both hives, thank goodness. If bees had needed me in order to live thousands of years ago, there would be no life on earth. Thank God they didn't need me this time either. 

Your packages sound really interesting. Way different than mine. Would like to see that tube thing sometime.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

If it's a package there probably are no attendants and often no candy.


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## KyBee (Mar 1, 2005)

It's interesting. Several people have said their queens came with no attendants in the package, just as you say. But everybody's package from our supplier came with five to seven attendants in the package. And I was at Walter T. Kelley's the other Saturday when they were passing out bees to people who had ordered from them (I did not order from them) and I looked at their box of queens. All theirs had attendants as well. I wonder if it varies by supplier?

Also, Michael you're the first person to say there might be no candy. Nobody else bothered to mention that little possibility and of course, being completely green, I didn't think of it. All the schools and books and everybody has always said "be sure to remove the cork from the end with the candy." "Poke a nail through the candy if you want to give them some help to speed release of the queen," yadda yadda yadda. 

I wish I'd known beforehand that there might not be candy. Scared me to death. :0) Well, I'll know next time to plan for this possibility. 

I wish it would quit raining. I'd like to see if there's any capped brood. :0/


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

All of the packages I've gotten the last several years had no attendents, no candy and those skinny wooden California queen cages. Instead of a "three hole" configuration they are just one routed hole (guessing from memory, about 1 1/4" long and about 3/8" wide) in the much smaller piece of wood than the three hole cages. Also none of the queens have been marked.


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## John Schneider (Mar 1, 2005)

Kybee...too funny. I was kind of doing the same thing. Trying to push bees gently into the entrance hole! What a sucker I am. Oh well live and learn. I am sure that next years packages will go better. 

It is still freezing up here -4 degrees celcius this morning and no relief in sight until next week. I don't know if they are going to make it? I have my hive wrapped in blankets and with the little bit of sun we had yesterday afternoon there were quite a few bees buzzing around the entrances. A good sign. 

The queen cages we got were also very small with only one entrance that I noticed plugged with cork. I did a direct release 4 days ago and haven't checked for eggs yet because it is too cold. Hopefully Sunday. I am using undrawn plastic foundations...How long should I expect it to take before enough cells are drawn to allow her to lay?


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## Konrad (Oct 7, 2004)

Tomorrow is going to be 4 days after installment, still below 0 [freezing], I need to open and check for food!
How can it be done without spoiling the eggs if any??
Will a half a minute be OK?
Konrad


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