# How much do you spend per year just on wooden ware?



## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

I use a lot of plywood for other stuff, chicken coops, etc., but when I hired someone to make my boxes (didn't have time) I bought pine - 1x10 for deeps I think. Solid wood handles weather SO much better, especially if the cross-cut edge is not painted and is going to see ANY weather. 

I dropped what, $300 or $400 on woodenware & tools last summer. Spent $60 on the wood and swapped out the labor for 4 nucs and 2 deeps, slightly imperfect ones, no fancy corners, but better than what my hive came with.

Gypsi


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

I make all my nuc's out of 3/4" plywood, glue and screw with Titebond III and they seem to hold up well with two coats of exterior latex. Then again they don't get as much heavy use as regular boxes. You should be able to get at least two years out of them but why not use 3/4" pine from a lumber yard, (cheaper than Home Depot) and they'll last much much longer.


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## spunky (Nov 14, 2006)

I just make a yearly budget for the apairy , and its 100$ for wooden ware and frames. I dont add in 1 queen bee and sugar/ bee pro ,per spring season . I am just a small hobby guy though. I make my own tops, and bottoms , feeders


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## Andrew Dewey (Aug 23, 2005)

I'm using up a big order I made in 2010 before I had a bunch of hives not make it through winter. You don't need honey supers if there aren't hives to put them on! The only boxes I have yet to put together are ones I ordered without handholds so I could cut guides for queen castles. I have 200 or so frames (mostly smalls for honey) to assemble and install foundation in. The boxes I assembled and painted last summer. I don't think I purchased any woodenware in 2011 and certainly none this far in 2012.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

BeeGhost said:


> Anyone make their own deeps out of plywood?? It just seems cheaper, but how long will they last? If I could get a couple years out of them I would be money ahead!!


When you buy commercially produced woodenware from Bee Supply Companys, you are investing in quality, standard sized equipment which will last for ages and will fit on someone elses hives, thereby making what you own saleable in the future, should you, or your widow, wish to sell some equipment. Who will want to buy you plywood boxes? Not me.


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

If I ran several hundred hives I'd buy more boxes from the suppliers for the time savings. With my small operation I watch craigslist closely and pick up lumber from guys who are cleaning out their sheds. I also have a "Wolfcraft" dowelling jig which allows me to glue boards together if they are not wide enough. I am working on 100 feet of 1x10 that cost me $10 - although because I knew the guy was virtually giving it to me I gave him a jar of honey to sweeten the deal.


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## Stonefly7 (Nov 3, 2005)

Mark, I understand the hobby person doing it himself. No, I would not purchase plywood either. Spent 2200 on boxes, and 2560 on frames. I would rather support the person making the product, and spend my valuable time working bees. Just what I do, not saying making your own stuff is bad. 

Kind regards


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Yes, I go along w/ that too. Nothing wrong w/ doing things in ways one enjoys. It's just a matter of how you like to spend your time. I know plenty of people who think Posting on beesource isn't something for them and don't do it. whether that makes it a waste of time is up to the individual.


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## pascopol (Apr 23, 2009)

Charlie B said:


> You should be able to get at least two years out of them but why not use 3/4" pine from a lumber yard, (cheaper than Home Depot) and they'll last much much longer.


I risked one sheet of $15.00 plywood to make 8 nucs (using cypress scraps as tops and bottoms) will see how long they last before using plywood on a larger scale.

To me if plywood does not last at least 5 years, it is not worth bothering with, since I can make nucs or boxes from cheap #2 pine or even cheaper cypress seconds & scraps.

My time is a money too, even I never see this money.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

As a hobbyist I think it will decrease as time goes on. If you are going to buy and not make I would say 300 first year, 200 second year and 100 third and maybe 50 from there on. I think plywood can be used in an emergency but not as a permanent hive body. Although ... I laminated scrap pine and made these boxes which I am sure Mark would lower his standards and use these boxes.

http://i697.photobucket.com/albums/vv333/acebird1/Hive Bodies/HiveBodies014.jpg

As supers these boxes will last because the 1/4 plywood in on the inside. What I don't know is how well they will do in the brood chamber where condensation is more of a problem.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Acebird said:


> I laminated scrap pine and made these boxes which I am sure Mark would lower his standards and use these boxes.


lol

I'm sure that what I see in the photo is just fine for what you are using it for, but, I have plywood nuc boxes which haven't lasted anywhere near as long as other nuc boxes made from boards.

I am not much of a do it yourselfer and am not a small scale beekeeper, so take what I write w/ that in mind. Making boxes from boards doesn't fit my beekeeping style and plywood boxes even less so.

If you'll notice I used the word "invest" in my first Post on this Thread. That was a word choice intended to show how I view expenditures. If I am going to buy boxes they are going to be like others I have which will last 50 years, not 2 or 5 needing to be replaced and recycled.

My philosophy also includes the idea of paying someone for what they do best and do what I do best. Changing a board into a hive body isn't one of the things I do best.

If you are a DIYer, go for it. And like Acebird, make what you make as good as you can. Enjoy what you do and that is where the real value is. And you will learn something along the way too.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Couldn't agree more Mark. If it is an investment you have to go a long way to beat the price of buying wooden ware from those that have geared up for mass production. I think if you were going to use plywood the best grade would be marine. Standard woodenware would be cheaper. Exterior grade would be the bare minimum and end grain still poses a problem.


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## dback (Jan 8, 2012)

Just thinking out loud here.......

The last place I would try to save is frames. Bees don't much care about the appearance of the hive body....quality and health of the hive is, to a great degree, dependent on the frames. They are one of the most important aspects of the hive. We use quality wooden frames with the best plastic foundation. Frames with wax moth or hive beetle damage on plastic can be cleaned up and reused, last forever and maintain a good degree of resale value. Used (standard) equipment from commercial operations or other sources for hive bodies, tops and bottom boards are often a great value. A coat of paint on used equipment does wonders. I have made my share of woodenware in my day but unless you simply enjoy the activity.......(or get the material very cheap) it is difficult to justify.

Just my 2 cents.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> lol
> My philosophy also includes the idea of paying someone for what they do best and do what I do best. Changing a board into a hive body isn't one of the things I do best.


I am a sort of cost/effective DIYer. $2200 for plumbing when I can do it for $250, I do it. $4000 for house wiring when I can do it for $600 (on the 5 year plan, meanwhile keeping excess load off the old circuits), I do it. 

Vent screen boxes I can build for less than $4, no shipping, takes half an hour, I do it. 

Frames - I want to try foundationless frames, at least in my bait hives, and when I have a couple of nickels to spare I'll pick up a quantity - was trying to find a local supplier to dodge freight, but apparantly Dadant in Paris, TX is the local supplier. 

Boxes - I don't know how critical the finger joints are - anything I want faster than having it shipped, I'll build. I'll use it for something later if it doesn't last. But it takes as long to assemble a prefab box as it takes to assemble a straight cut box, so it is 6/1, half dozen the other. I suspect the prefabs are better, but for now I'm box - rich and bee poor, so I'm not shopping them.

Bottom boards and telescoping covers - and even inner covers - plywood is better than masonite, granted those nice metal caps are VERY nice. So I'm guessing I'll make my bottom boards and inner covers, but maybe buy telescoping ones. Again, the assembly time is virtually the same. Saw cuts are not the lengthy part of the process. 

Last summer I was strictly a "buy" sorta gal, at least while I learned how things were put together.

Gypsi


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## ralittlefield (Apr 25, 2011)

I spend very little. I have made all my wooden ware from rough lumber that I get from a friend that has a saw mill. We treat each other very well. I don't question his price (which is very cheap 35 to 45 cents a board foot) and he often has some scraps that are very usable for me that he throws in for free. It takes ~ 6 lineal feet of 1X10 to make a deep box. That's about 5 board feet, or $1.75 to $2.25 that I pay for material.

I have to plane and cut the pieces, but I have a well equipped wood shop, and woodworking is also a hobby of mine. Add in that I am retired and live is good!


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

Acebird said:


> Although ... I laminated scrap pine and made these boxes which I am sure Mark would lower his standards and use these boxes.
> 
> http://i697.photobucket.com/albums/vv333/acebird1/Hive Bodies/HiveBodies014.jpg


Those look pretty good, I'll take 50!


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

sqkcrk said:


> When you buy commercially produced woodenware ...making what you own saleable in the future... Who will want to buy you plywood boxes? Not me.


And yet you see it over and over - *NEVER buy used equipment* because of foulbrood. So who wants to buy used equipment anyway? Especially from a hobbyist. If it is full of standard frames and healthy bees, then replacing the boxes shouldn't be a deal breaker if someone wants to buy them and take the risk.

I have plywood boxes that I put into service in Spring 2009 and they are pretty much like new. Now that isn't a long term torture test, but keeping my equipment costs low is allowing me to determine 2 things - 1)How much bee keeping do I have time for/want? 2)Can I make any money off from it. The answer to 2) greatly affects the answer to 1) But, in the mean time cutting my woodenware cost roughly in half is a big factor for me when I need 30-40 more supers for next year.

I'm not saying you aren't right in one way of looking at it. But if you have limited fundage for your hobby then bootstrapping to positive cash flow and quicker economic sustainability is worth considering. 

If I make money off of bees at all (and I'm almost there - broke even last year) my theory is that I can make more off of my 10 hives in junky boxes than I could from 5 hives in nice boxes. Once I establish some income instead of all outlay I'll give more consideration to long term investment.

Just me.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

David LaFerney said:


> And yet you see it over and over - *NEVER buy used equipment* because of foulbrood. So who wants to buy used equipment anyway?
> 
> Just me.


Well, Commercial Beekeepers. Folks who know disease and how to deal w/ it. If a beekeeper isn't confident about their knowledge of diseases and how to habdle them and also isn't sure about the history of the person selling used equipment stay away and leave them bee. Otherwise, buy the equipment.


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## Fuzzy (Aug 4, 2005)

"How much do you spend per year just on wooden ware?"

As a hobbiest, ten years into this hobby, the answer is $0.00

There was certainly an initial investment that was substantial. But, I have not had to replace any of the woodenware. So, the answer is still $0.00

And I should also say that the Honey sales from the 2nd year production paid for ALL of the equipment including a motorized extractor. So, now
it is pure profit every year.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Fuzzy;743100There was certainly an initial investment that was substantial. But said:


> I wouldn't consider this a hobblyist. If you figure equipment replacement cost is 0, I wouldn't suspect you would last to long as a business. Seriously, I think people that try to support their hobby by acting like a fly by night business are really kidding themselves. JMO.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Charlie B said:


> Those look pretty good, I'll take 50!


Thanks, I had the time and Craigslist came through with a free be on the wood. Now if I can get lucky again this year...


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## Nantom670 (Jul 29, 2011)

Bought some pine on craigslist for 50 cents a running foot, 1x10. http://photobucket.com/phil-2-13

Used cedar on the Warre. My own design on the top bars. I cut the ends 1 1/2" and then come in 3/16" on both sides and cut with my bandsaw.


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## onthekeg (Sep 19, 2011)

I only have my one feral colony now, but I want 4 hives on a pallet by fall. I'm going to buy a package also and split them once if possible. So I am buying all of that, plus a nuc. I spent 210 today, but I won't need another smoker and the ancillary items. I would hope for another 500 I will have the bee's setup properly.


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## RAK (May 2, 2010)

Nantom670 said:


> Bought some pine on craigslist for 50 cents a running foot, 1x10. http://photobucket.com/phil-2-13
> 
> Used cedar on the Warre. My own design on the top bars. I cut the ends 1 1/2" and then come in 3/16" on both sides and cut with my bandsaw.


Link is private...


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## Nantom670 (Jul 29, 2011)

Thanks, I just signed up and did not have it set right. I think its now open.


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## davel (Jan 29, 2011)

ralittlefield said:


> I spend very little. I have made all my wooden ware from rough lumber that I get from a friend that has a saw mill. We treat each other very well. I don't question his price (which is very cheap 35 to 45 cents a board foot) and he often has some scraps that are very usable for me that he throws in for free. It takes ~ 6 lineal feet of 1X10 to make a deep box. That's about 5 board feet, or $1.75 to $2.25 that I pay for material.
> 
> I have to plane and cut the pieces, but I have a well equipped wood shop, and woodworking is also a hobby of mine. Add in that I am retired and live is good!


How do you make a deep box from a 1x10? A 1x10 is 9 1/2" wide and a deep brood box is 9 5/8" wide.:scratch::scratch::scratch:


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## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

I have never replaced a super since I started. of course, I did take off 20 years to be a Marine. 
All my expenses were/are paid with honey revenue. My grandfather bought me my first hive in 1969. The rest were on me from the age of 11 on. 
I too tried the plywood and it only worked for covers/feeder covers for me. It is not worth assembling for nucs and supers, too heavy, too short lived.
I can still beat supplier prices including my time and shop supplies. It only works if you cut in quantity, and cut a couple hudred board feet of each part at a time. Some day I will work up to a hauncher and gang saw!


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

Nothing wrong with plywood:
http://www.solwaybeesupplies.co.uk/national-ply-wood-hive-assembled-14-c.asp


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## onthekeg (Sep 19, 2011)

davel said:


> How do you make a deep box from a 1x10? A 1x10 is 9 1/2" wide and a deep brood box is 9 5/8" wide.:scratch::scratch::scratch:


I hated fractions as a kid and hate them more now. If you have your own sawmill, you can cut to your 10" dimension if you want to.


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## kangaroo (Oct 10, 2010)

When I was a teenager (30+ years ago), I built every piece of the hive I had from Cover to bottom board. I just returned to beekeeping 2 years ago, recovered 4 deeps, and 5 shallows.
The price of the wood to build Boxes or frames is not cost effective. I do build my own Bottom Boards and Covers, but to build Frames, and boxes vs. the price of wood, and my time just puts me at a lost. I can build my own boxes and frames, but I would pay just as much for the wood, as it would cost me to purchase it!.


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## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

AmericasBeekeeper said:


> It is not worth assembling for nucs and supers, too heavy, too short lived.


I have 6 nucs that I made out of plywood per D.Coates method and they are holding up very well!! I have made all my swarm traps, SBB and hive covers out of plywood as well. They all seem to be holding up fine so far. Of course I do put a couple coats of paint on them. I love working with wood, and I get to teach my kids how to cut, drill, measure, glue and use pnuematic tools as well. 

The reason I would use them exclusively for honey supers is they are only on for a couple months at a time and usually not during the rainy season. I can whip up 10 supers in no time and for 1/4 of the cost. I dont factor in my time because I like building stuff!! You absolutely cannot factor in time if you like doing something.

Now, I wont make my own frames because I dont have the tools to make that worth while nor the patience to cut end bars, top bars and side bars, and hundreds of them to boot! Covers and bottom boards are simple, measure, cut, staple on some wire and done. Hive bodies are easy as well, rip on a table saw, cut to length with a skilsaw, glue, nail, done.

I do not make my living with bees, if I did, I would order everything in large quantities and have an assembly line going. Commercial beekeeping is a business and time is money in that case and would be better spent doing other bee business related stuff.

Again, I am a hobbiest and enjoy making bee related stuff!!


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

I spend 1-2k a year on wooden-ware. I am at 100 going to 500 over the next couple years so need to build boxes and frames each winter for the spring, Pallets, tops, bottoms. I spend 2 hours a day in the shop every day assembling nailing and painting. I buy the boxes cut because there is only so much time in the day. Plus I get them cheaper then I can get the wood. Oops paint is my friend. Frames and foundation is ML.


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## ralittlefield (Apr 25, 2011)

davel said:


> How do you make a deep box from a 1x10? A 1x10 is 9 1/2" wide and a deep brood box is 9 5/8" wide.:scratch::scratch::scratch:


Actually a planed 1X10 is 9 1/4" wide by 3/4" thick.

I buy rough lumber. A rough 1X10 is 1"X10".


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Nantom670 said:


> My own design on the top bars.


http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb369/nantom670/bee equipment/IMG_0687.jpg
Nice hives. It looks like you have a screen that covers the front of the bottom two boxes. Or what is that?

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb369/nantom670/bee equipment/IMG_0686.jpg
I am sorry to say I don’t like your side bars. Without being notched into the top bar I don’t think they will be strong enough. If you don’t want to do the notches you can cut the ears off the top bars and run your side bars up to the top surface. Then use a small angle screwed to the side bar to hang the frame.


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## davel (Jan 29, 2011)

ralittlefield said:


> Actually a planed 1X10 is 9 1/4" wide by 3/4" thick.
> 
> I buy rough lumber. A rough 1X10 is 1"X10".


I didn't think about that! Do you notice a big weight difference in the 1" thick wood when you build your boxes?


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

ralittlefield said:


> Actually a planed 1X10 is 9 1/4" wide by 3/4" thick.


Depends on the vintage. The older it is the bigger it is. If you go back in time far enough only one side was milled. On top of that, back a hundred or so years even fire wood had less knots.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I didn't think you were old enuf to remember that. What does what was have to do w/ what is, regarding the size of a 1X10?


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> I didn't think you were old enuf to remember that. What does what was have to do w/ what is, regarding the size of a 1X10?


You don't have to be 100 years old to see what they did 100 years ago. Just buy an old house.

As was mentioned, Craigslist is a good source of used or old lumber. Old lumber has gone through a number of moisture swings so it is not only stable it is dimensionally larger.


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## Nantom670 (Jul 29, 2011)

Acebird said:


> http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb369/nantom670/bee equipment/IMG_0687.jpg
> Nice hives. It looks like you have a screen that covers the front of the bottom two boxes. Or what is that?
> 
> http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb369/nantom670/bee equipment/IMG_0686.jpg
> I am sorry to say I don’t like your side bars. Without being notched into the top bar I don’t think they will be strong enough. If you don’t want to do the notches you can cut the ears off the top bars and run your side bars up to the top surface. Then use a small angle screwed to the side bar to hang the frame.


Not a screen, that I believe came out of an old refrigerator that I junked and is a safety glass shelve from over the compartment for fruit and such. I made it with a frame around it to place as an inner cover so that I can see into the top super when I remove the outer cover.
As far as the side bars go I shoot two brads into the top of the sides and then shoot two from the top of the top bar down into the sidebars in addition to gluing with Titebond II. If that don't hold, I'll just make some more. I am not going to use an extractor either, I am going to uncap the frames and set them into a small room in the basement and turn the heat up to about 90 degrees and let them drain, and I plan on doing a lot of foundation less frames. I say plan, I will not get my first bees until a couple of months, they are on order.


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## ralittlefield (Apr 25, 2011)

Acebird said:


> I am sorry to say I don’t like your side bars. Without being notched into the top bar I don’t think they will be strong enough.


Considering that top bar frames work fine with no side bars, I think that his will be fine.


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## ralittlefield (Apr 25, 2011)

Acebird said:


> If you go back in time far enough only one side was milled.


You don't have to go back in time to find that. One of our larger building supply stores stocks some lumber milled that way now.


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## ralittlefield (Apr 25, 2011)

davel said:


> Do you notice a big weight difference in the 1" thick wood?


I plane them to 3/4" so that both outside dimensions and bee space on inside are controlled correctly. I doubt that the extra thickness would make a substantial difference.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Nantom670 said:


> If that don't hold, I'll just make some more. I am not going to use an extractor either, I am going to uncap the frames and set them into a small room in the basement and turn the heat up to about 90 degrees and let them drain, and I plan on doing a lot of foundation less frames.


It is not the extractor that is the problem it is the digging them out of the hive when the bees cement in the top bar and maybe run burr comb between frames that will break the glue joints. Basically the nails dont hold much because they are in end grain. Anyways you only have to make yourself happy and if that is so, great.

You can go as much as 110 for heat extraction but not much more. Some people use the attic because the heat is free.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

ralittlefield said:


> I plane them to 3/4" so that both outside dimensions and bee space on inside are controlled correctly. I doubt that the extra thickness would make a substantial difference.


What a waste ... Outside dimension means nothing. Commercial woodenware can be 7/8 and my 3/4 laminated to 1/4 made 1 inch stock. Better IMO for northern regions, better also for stronger corner joints. If I started with 1 inch rough cut I would sand the outside and paint and leave the inside for the bees to deal with. Of course if I had a planer I would use it to do a skin cut but it is definitely not something a beekeeper needs in his arsenal.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

Acebird said:


> Some people use the attic because the heat is free.


Who would that be?

Mark B.?


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Actually, one of the people I know is Mark L., not a member of this forum. We were going to do it our first year but we waited too long to pull the supers. So I rigged up this heater fan and stand which worked pretty good until I covered the top bars then it got to hot and everything fell out. I also didn't realize the comb is made up hill at a 13 degree angle. So if you use heat flip the frames upside down and you will get more out.

http://i697.photobucket.com/albums/vv333/acebird1/Extractor/P1030988.jpg


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## ralittlefield (Apr 25, 2011)

Acebird said:


> What a waste ... Outside dimension means nothing.


I disagree. Not a waste at all. I end up with the product that I want. I am offering boxes for sale, as well as building them for my own use. Rough lumber is just that...rough. I do not want to offer boxes that are not uniform. If I was buying them, I would not want boxes that are not uniform.

There is a reason lumber is sawn 1" and planed to 3/4" . It often takes a 1/8 on each side to get the board uniform. Not always, but often.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

outside dimension means something if you use telescoping covers and don't want to make custom covers for your boxes.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

A standard cover will fit on 1 inch stock and if you were making your boxes anyway you would probably make the lid too.


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## feltze (May 15, 2010)

davel said:


> How do you make a deep box from a 1x10? A 1x10 is 9 1/2" wide and a deep brood box is 9 5/8" wide.:scratch::scratch::scratch:


When dealing with rough cut lumber 1x10's are really 1" x 10" and if you want a bit wider you can get that too. 

I own a sawmill and cut to order for folks all the time.

Started year 1 with 3 good hives, ended the year with a 1000 frame purchase to ensure I would not have to wait on frames in yr #2 and built an extra 60 boxes.

Ended Yr 2 with 11 good hives, purchased an additional 1000 frames for yr #3, expecting to do splits on all to expand, I'm working with another beekeeper to aquire more splits... goal 50+ colonies @ 40 frames per colony thats 2000 frames and 200 boxes. 

I expect 10% turnover or loss in equipment in yrs to come...

Boxes are either finger joint, half blind dovetail or a mitered locking box joint. I have now made a router jig which allows me to rout box joints in 1 sets of boxes at a time, reducing the manufacturing time for the boxes. All boxes I make are to the Langsthrom standard as found in the references section of this web site. 

Having the ability to make my own boxes as lumber is inexpensive for me ( I have a sawmill and several thousand feet of lumber in the yard at any given time) I find that there is definitely a cost time formula one should look at when deciding to make or buy equipment.

What is your hourly wage? what is the cost of the product you can manufacture in an hour? 

If you can manufacture products (minus costs) at a rate which meets or exceeds your hourly wage you are making money doing your own stuff


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## RAK (May 2, 2010)

Here are the frames I make. Easy to make if you have a solid table saw, Jointer, planer, Dado blades and wood. 
Most of the frames are made from scrap wood. I find making frames takes some time. In the future I might buy more machines that are each setup for specific cuts for frames. Making 1000 frames is simple. It takes me a good 3-4 days to make 1000 frame top and bottoms once the lumber is all ready. Sidebars take me another 2 days because you need 2000 ends for 1000 frames. I use 2x6,4,8,10,12... Jointer is used to cut the side bar curve. However my jointer China knives suck so bad that I have to sharpen frequently. 

I hope someone could recommend some good steel 6" knives for a jointer.... 
Making frames is worth it if you know where to get good scrap lumber. I usually work in the evenings and do a bit at a time. My shop ain't finished yet so I work outside and its cold. I bet I could be cutting way faster in the warmth.

Let me know if you can't see the pics...
Bottom Bars.


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## RAK (May 2, 2010)

top bars

















Closer shot


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## RAK (May 2, 2010)

wood for migratory covers...









some boards cut to size for deeps...


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## RAK (May 2, 2010)

Plywood for pallet bottom boards... 30 cents a sheet? I think... 7 ply. not sure what grade but almost no knots.All you have to do is look on craigslist all the time. There are good deals out there...









Sorry for the gas welder in the way...


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## RAK (May 2, 2010)

2000 BF(30 cents B/F) of red cedar 1x12. Kiln dried Surfaced 3 sides... 

actual dimsension is 7/8" x 11.5"

















The top boards are not good looking but under are nice boards.


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## RAK (May 2, 2010)

rough sawn pine and western fir.

1x10 air dried down to 9 3/4 but most down to 9 5/8... The problem is I have to joint the wood. I recomend getting dried wood and actually measuring the width. 1/8 of extra wood is enough to joint/plane.


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## RAK (May 2, 2010)

Back to making frames... 

End bars.

























I like working with wood when its like this...









Sorry for all the Pics. These might belong in the Pic category but I want all to see the process... Any comments welcome...


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Are you as good at beekeeping as you appear to be at woodworking? Looks like you have thye tools and talent and know how to make wood into useable hive components. Thanks for all the photos.


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## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

Wow Rak!! Im very impressed!! You did a heck of a job on those frame components!!!


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

would you explain how you do the sides with the joiner?


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## RAK (May 2, 2010)

Well, woodworking is something I enjoy and yes I have many basic tools. Most are American Vintage tools which run like tanks but others are a bit cheap.


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## RAK (May 2, 2010)

This video explains visually...

Woodworkers like to barrow ideas from other people and that is what I did. 

Lets say you get a good piece of 2x6. Cut the 2x6 into 9 1/8" blocks. A 2x6 is actually 1.5" thick. Plane the block down to 1 3/8". Cut the bottom grooves for the bottom using dado blades or Shaper. You could also run the top but It gets me confused and I down want to joint the wrong side later on...
Then run the blocks on a jointer to make the curve for spacers just like in the video. Notice there is a wooden stop clamped down to appropriate length. Finally I run the top groove through the dados.

The blocks are then ran through a tables saw with a thin kerf blade or better a band saw set to 3/8"

Sorry I am bad at explaining. If the videos still don't make sense then I could do a photo tutorial later on.

http://www.youtube.com/user/dvdnick#p/u/21/0umL4VEnDdE


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## RAK (May 2, 2010)

:thumbsup:


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## RAK (May 2, 2010)

Here is another video. This guy doesn't cut his grooves because I don't think they use them...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DeFRw4oDFk&list=UUJt9q9h5CPyFnkuUdZkwBnw&index=18&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2XjBhv2nTM&list=UUJt9q9h5CPyFnkuUdZkwBnw&index=20&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4i5qrHt3NVw&list=UUCHJw8KnOSqWKz66NdcANag&index=48&feature=plcp 

I think the guys in the video are either Turkish or Armenian... Their woodworking skills are very good..


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## feltze (May 15, 2010)

Excellent, I never thought of using the jointer for the side curve. 

Beesource is an awsome site to share ideas!


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## ralittlefield (Apr 25, 2011)

RAK I enjoyed the pictures. You have put a lot of work into this project!


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

RAK said:


> Well, woodworking is something I enjoy and yes I have many basic tools. Most are American Vintage tools which run like tanks but others are a bit cheap.


What else do you build w/ all that lumber and your machinery? Is woodworking your income source? If I am not getting too personal.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

$42 made one hive and started a second. Included enough paint to make several dozen hives and that was around half of the entire expenditure. This year I expect to triple that figure at least. In the big time now.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Thanks - the jointer tip is a good one - I've been making two cuts with the table saw to remove a thin slice. Using the jointer is 1/2 as many operations and twice as safe I bet - and looks better too. I rarely run across one I don't already know any more - thanks.


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## mmiller (Jun 17, 2010)

Nice work RAK:thumbsup::thumbsup:

Mike


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

feltze said:


> If you can manufacture products (minus costs) at a rate which meets or exceeds your hourly wage you are making money doing your own stuff


You should include equipment overhead in your costs.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

RAK said:


> Here are the frames I make. Easy to make if you have a solid table saw, Jointer, planer, Dado blades and wood.


The best tool I ever bought, back when I was still single 30+ years ago was a surface planer. I have lugged that thing around with me all these years. It's been to Portland and back. Makita 400mm 2040. Here's a picture (not mine). Mine still looks new.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Acebird said:


> You should include equipment overhead in your costs.


Right you are Ace but don't forget dynamic opportunity cost (both tangible and intangible) - if the super bowl is on on then may be too high, just home shopping network? - much less. Of course you also have to take into account underutilized real depreciation when your equipment is just idly becoming obsolete and turning to rust. You *really* should consult your accountant before doing *anything*.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Barry, I had an old Craftsman I lugged around but didn't use it much. It's gone now. My order of preference for power tool are: Table saw, Drill press, Router (router stand or shaper), Band saw. For furniture type work you need a joiner. If you are buying rough sawn wood you need a planer for furniture work but you don't really need it for bee hives.
As far as the videos go, the first one was very dangerous with no guards and hands directly over the blades. You catch a knot and that can fold your thumbs back against your wrist, the board flies out and your hands go right into the blades. Please do not imitate this. The second group of videos was a safer approach with a longer board.
Now nothing says that the side bars have to have a radii where they narrow down. You can cut a 45 with a table saw and slice out the piece with a band saw. The bees won't care.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

Main Entry: side·bar Pronunciation: \-bär\Function: noun Date: 1945 1 a : a short news story or graphic accompanying and presenting sidelights of a major story b : something incidental : SIDELIGHT <a sidebar to the essay's central theme> 2 : a conference between the judge, the lawyers, and sometimes the parties to a case that the jury does not hear

I believe you are referring to the "endbars"...


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

I paid $1,500 for it new back in 1980ish. I saw the same version of it about 8 years ago in a tool store going for $4,800. I made furniture and bought a small truck load of RS white oak from a mill in southern Indiana. I still have a few of those boards in the garage. It's still a better/safer tool to use when you need to take an 1/8" off of many parts. Instead of ripping a piece of wood two ways, you plane the thickness of a board and then rip the individual widths.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Acebird said:


> Now nothing says that the side bars have to have a radii where they narrow down. You can cut a 45 with a table saw and slice out the piece with a band saw. The bees won't care.


There are two reasons I can think of why END Bars, not side bars, not a beekeeping term, are tapered and have beveled edges. One, the narrowing allows bees to move around the ends of the frames easily. Two, the edges of the end bars being beveled or pointed or whatever the proper descriptive word is gives the bees less surface area to glue together w/ propolis, making frame manipulation easier for the beekeeper.

There is no supreme law which says one has to do either of those things, but doing so makes beekeeping easier and more enjoyable. Over the years manufacturers of bee hive components have fine tuned the way the parts are built towards beekeeper satisfaction. Just like how your jeans and slack are built the way they are built. We could all be wearing buttonup flys, but apparently zippers are prefered, for some reason.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

BeeCurious said:


> I believe you are referring to the "endbars"...


That would be correct.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

sqkcrk said:


> There are two reasons I can think of why END Bars, not side bars, not a beekeeping term, are tapered and have beveled edges. One, the narrowing allows bees to move around the ends of the frames easily. Two, the edges of the end bars being beveled or pointed or whatever the proper descriptive word is gives the bees less surface area to glue together w/ propolis, making frame manipulation easier for the beekeeper.


They also go through automated extracting systems much better. Not that I am saying there is anything at all wrong with making your own frames if you have the tools, the time and the know how but with frames selling for around .65 it probably dosent pay much for the time invested but if it is a "labor of love" by all means go for it. There is a reason why there has become so much standardization in frames lots of trial and error through the years has led us to this style of frame. Having bought out lots of smaller operations through the years I have seen lots and lots of examples of poorly designed homemade frames and I dont recall seeing a design that seemed to work better from a commercial perspective than what is commonly being sold.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> There are two reasons I can think of why END Bars, not side bars, not a beekeeping term, are tapered and have beveled edges. One, the narrowing allows bees to move around the ends of the frames easily. Two, the edges of the end bars being beveled or pointed or whatever the proper descriptive word is gives the bees less surface area to glue together w/ propolis, making frame manipulation easier for the beekeeper.


I am not clear what you mean by beveled edges. My purchased frames have one beveled edge and one straight cornered edge. When frames are put close together tight touching one another the bees fillet in the beveled edge. They can't propolis the edges if they were all straight cornered. I think the bevel is used for orienting the frame (Hossle positioning).
The radii I was speaking of was the narrowing down of the END bar that you would get from a joiner. If that was a 45 instead of a radius it wouldn't matter to the bees. My point is you could get by without investing in a joiner. It is only a radius because of mass production.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

The Kelley style end bar you talk about was made LOOOOOOONG before Housel Positioning ever came to be!


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Yes, Acebird, I believe the beveled edge against a flat edge make manipulation by the beekeeper easier. Glue it down they still do, but, once that propolis bond is broken by the hive tool it is easier to remove the frame.

Housel has nothing to do w/ it. End bars are the width they are because of bee space, so combs are spaced for bee movement pathways.


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## RAK (May 2, 2010)

sqkcrk said:


> What else do you build w/ all that lumber and your machinery? Is woodworking your income source? If I am not getting too personal.


I am a college student and woodworking is not my job but a hobby. I use the lumber strictly for beekeeping. I use hardwoods for making small projects but lately I have been focused only on beekeeping. My father is a sideliner going into commercial and I just help out as much as I can. When I have extra time I build frames but most of the time I prefer to buy frames.


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## RAK (May 2, 2010)

Acebird said:


> As far as the videos go, the first one was very dangerous with no guards and hands directly over the blades. You catch a knot and that can fold your thumbs back against your wrist, the board flies out and your hands go right into the blades. Please do not imitate this. The second group of videos was a safer approach with a longer board.
> Now nothing says that the side bars have to have a radii where they narrow down. You can cut a 45 with a table saw and slice out the piece with a band saw. The bees won't care.


I have put blocks of wood like that with the biggest knots and my fingers are still on my hands. The only reason Why I hate knots is because they kill the blades. Safety is not an issue because with two strong hands on the board It won't go anywhere... It really is not as dangerous as it looks... More people lose fingers cutting tables saws and BandSaws... That is exactly why saw stop created a table saw with a brake and they are also making a band saw with brake.

However Don't take my word for it. This is all from my experience and if you do lose a finger it is not my fault... cut at your own risk.

BTW I have had my finger touch the jointer blades while running. I was quick enough to pull it out. Just tore some skin.





I agree with cutting a double sided block would be better because it is more stable.


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## RAK (May 2, 2010)

Barry said:


> The best tool I ever bought, back when I was still single 30+ years ago was a surface planer. I have lugged that thing around with me all these years. It's been to Portland and back. Makita 400mm 2040. Here's a picture (not mine). Mine still looks new.


I would not mind taking that tank off your hands. :lpf:


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## Irvin cooper (May 2, 2011)

Im a hobbyist, both beekeeper and woodworker. I build my own woodenware. Its a break-even deal, not counting my time. It would be a losing proposition if I were a sideliner or commercial. I do both because I enjoy them, and expect to lose money on both!


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## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

Wow, didnt realise that the "correct" terminology had to be used when refering to the end bars, however it seems that people knew what was being talked about when "side bars" were being used. If you dont have a contribution to a post that is positive, perhaps you should move onto another post that is grammatically correct. Some really "hole where rabbit poop comes out of" people around here!! (sorry, but I think the bad word checker would catch what I really wanted to type)!!

If you want to get your post count up, start a thread and reply to it as often as possible, then atleast you will be destroying your own thread and not someone elses!!

Anyhow, got my ML order today and will have plenty to do for a little while!!


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## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

Acebird, 

Simple question for you. Why do you always have to be confrontational?? By the look of the woodwork that RAK does, im sure he is confident aorund manchinery and respectful of what it can do. If he cuts his fingers off, that is his problem, but im sure he doesnt need you to mother him either. My table saw doesnt have a guard, infact its small enough I probably shouldnt be ripping sheets of plywood on it, however I know what it can do and what can happen if I am not careful and I take measures to do so. 

So, just take a chill pill and add something positive..............or again, duct tape your fingers into a fist so you cant type and just cuss the screen out and give a 1/2 hour safety meeting to yourself or anything/anyone that will listen to it.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Proper terminology isn't important? People shouldn't have to imagine what someone meant. Misspelling is one thing, but in my own defense, I thought that someone may have forgotten the right name for the item in question.


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

Aye when the pigeons come in there's no use in even commenting. I made 20 deeps, 24 mediums, and all the frames for $75. I have 20 more deeps and 40 mediums waiting to be assembled and still have to make the end bars for all the new boxes.


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## Jim 134 (Dec 1, 2007)

Barry said:


> The Kelley style end bar you talk about was made LOOOOOOONG before Housel Positioning ever came to be!


As it not A.I.Root :s May ben keeping bees to long


BEE HAPPY Jim  134


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

That sure is a deep frame being made in the video of post #63.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

I think someone needed to request a sidebar about 30 posts ago to get our terminology correct.


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## RAK (May 2, 2010)

RAK said:


> :thumbsup:


The quoted post is the one 30 posts back.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

I guess if you don't see anything wrong in those videos you probably don't belong in a shop. As for the thumbs. You can keep betting that there will never be a problem or you can use push blocks. If there is no force trying to push the block backwards then there is no need to place your thumbs behind it at all. If there is then it is proof that the force can get stronger. Strong enough to break your thumbs. I have had wood kick back from a table saw and just barely graze my finger. I thought for a moment my finger might be broken. Had that wood connected solidly with my hand there is no question it would have broken it. If you ever do have your thumbs bent backwards there is no guarantee you will ever use them again. Keep rolling those dice. You may never loose. but then it only takes once and the solution is actually very simple.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

BeeGhost said:


> Acebird,
> 
> Why do you always have to be confrontational?


You feel warning potential newbies of extreme danger is confrontational? 



> Safety is not an issue because with two strong hands on the board It won't go anywhere... It really is not as dangerous as it looks...
> BTW I have had my finger touch the jointer blades while running. I was quick enough to pull it out. Just tore some skin.


That's right, it is only a matter of time. No one wins when you are being ****y with power tools.

There are safe ways to use tools without guards and there are unsafe ways. Put the two together and you are in deep trouble. I hate to hear of a not so experienced person taking their hand off because they imitated something they saw in a video.

BTW, the gloves are killers. The rag won't cut clean and it will pull the hand into the cutting blades.

There is a very simple way to do what he is doing safely. Construct a pusher board with a cleat that goes on top of the board that you are planing. If the board kicks out the pusher board takes the beating. The pusher board should be wider than the planer blades so they are always covered.

I appreciate Mark correcting my terminology, grammar and spelling I could care less about.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

isn't grammer speled w/ an "e"? heh,heh


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## delber (Dec 26, 2010)

Acebird said:


> No one wins when you are being ****y with power tools.
> 
> There are safe ways to use tools without guards and there are unsafe ways.
> 
> ...


These are all good points. I have a lot of experience in the wood shop also and the gloves I was surprised by. A guy here at work had this happen on a drill press where he almost had his finger taken off. It could have been cold in the shop, but that's part of the safety issues also. If you're cold you're more likely to be tense and stiff. I was also surprised to see that there was no fence on there. That board was being knocked from side to side as he was pushing it through. If you set the fence up so that it's 1/16" over the blade you can use it and it will help you push it better. I also have a finger that's about 1/8" shorter because of a 18" wide jointer that I was using. I couldn't use the jointer for a while after that. IMO and I don't think I'm alone, a $1.00 frame isn't worth a finger or fingers. I may try at some point making end bars like this on a jointer, but I will be using a different set-up. 
Just my 2c for what it's worth.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

i don't need this equipment. If i can't do it with my circular saw, my jig saw and my router, I'm buying it.


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## RAK (May 2, 2010)

Acebird said:


> There are safe ways to use tools without guards and there are unsafe ways. Put the two together and you are in deep trouble. I hate to hear of a not so experienced person taking their hand off because they imitated something they saw in a video.


First of all an inexperianced woodworker would not try this because most likely they do not have the tools and if they do they aren't to bright if they decide to run machines they never had training on.

If you are referring to me as inexperienced your wrong. I am a 4th Gen beekeeper and 4th gen woodworker. Its not my income but it was and is for most of my folks. I most likely have more professional woodworking training from multiple woodworkers who worked their whole life in wood shops than most people on this forum. I worked from saw stops to industrial dovetail machines that are worth 40k each. they aint exactly my machines but my point is that wood and bees runs in my blood .My Gramps worked on machines in Europe and there were no such thing as guards back then. They Used Common Sense and he had all his fingers till he passed away. 

I agree that working in big fluffy gloves is dangerous... The gloves he needs are some DeWalt DPG's with good grip that actually make you safer. I doubt they have DeWalt gloves over there.

The guy in the videos removes 1/8" from each side at once but I don't. I remove 1/16" at a time which is safer on my jointer because the blades are cheap to remove an 1/8" 

I could however go to my bros commercial cabinet shop and take of an eighth. With the 5hp motor and German HSS knives there is no way the board will kick and knots come out smooth. The revs are so high that the cut is just beautiful. 

In the video the guy has his finger the closest at an inch in top of the board. 


His thumbs are 3-4" from the blades. He won't fold his thumbs. 

That is the general margin of safety...

The only thing he shouldn't be doing is wearing gloves and removing to much wood at once. His revs are not high enough(board shaking) so He should upgrade his pulley to a larger diameter for smoother cut. 
He also selected his wood free from knots which is a plus for him. 

I advise yall that have a few small woodworking experiences on your hundred dollar craftsman table saw in your garage to watch what ya say because it ain't exactly right. Just because you think your right don't mean it. 

Speaking of saftey make sure to watch this video. This guy is just good at putting his finger in the blade.:applause::applause:


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## RAK (May 2, 2010)

Daniel Y said:


> I guess if you don't see anything wrong in those videos you probably don't belong in a shop. As for the thumbs. You can keep betting that there will never be a problem or you can use push blocks. If there is no force trying to push the block backwards then there is no need to place your thumbs behind it at all. If there is then it is proof that the force can get stronger. Strong enough to break your thumbs. I have had wood kick back from a table saw and just barely graze my finger. I thought for a moment my finger might be broken. Had that wood connected solidly with my hand there is no question it would have broken it. If you ever do have your thumbs bent backwards there is no guarantee you will ever use them again. Keep rolling those dice. You may never loose. but then it only takes once and the solution is actually very simple.


Are you sure you payed attention in your physics class? LOL not tying to be offensive but table saws aren't jointers. The only reason a board would kick back is because the splitter not right or the board is warped. BTW I recommend buying Anti Kickback fingers... Push stick are the way to go if you don't want to buy a sawstop... I had a few times where leather approved work gloves saved my fingers.


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## delber (Dec 26, 2010)

Rak, 
I can appreciate that you have a great ammt. of experience. I also have experience in the wood shop, but that video just makes me nervous.  I don't like to see blood on me or anyone else. I know people do things like that, but I'm not going to be one of them. I'll look for other ways to save money rather than trying to speed things up so much. To each his own. Here are 2 of the things I've made in the past. . . 








This one was my favorite








This one was cool and I learned some good things, but wasn't nearly as fun and rewarding to make.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Not as fun and rewarding? Oh my. I bet the person who bought them really like them.

What do your beehives look like? Dovetailed or finger jointed?


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

That is a labor of love delbert, very nice. The point is to keep all your fingers and hands so you can continue doing what you love and not loose it all on one goof. And while we are on the topic of cost of wooden ware, a goof could cost in the hundreds of thousands.
Both my father and I have lost a finger from a machine accident (not woodworking). I was lucky to live in a era where it could be put back on and get some use back out of it my father was not. Trust me on this one. It is not about experience it is more about lack of fear and not knowing how fast an accident can happen. Having an accident is not the way you want to learn. However it is something you won't forget.


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## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

Acebird said:


> Having an accident is not the way you want to learn. However it is something you won't forget.


Acebird.............Hate to say it, but I whole heartedly agree with this statement that you made. Its like leaving a rake laying on the ground with the tines up, I only did it once as a youth, I wasnt paying attention and stepped on it and flipped the handle up into my face which resulted in my first black eye that I can remember. Of course, that was harmless compared to losing apendages which can happen with any motorized equipment. 

Trust me, I do believe in safety first, last and always, but thats my perogative and something I will pass down to my kids and others around me.


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## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

Delber, those are amazing pieces!! Very good job and something to envy forsure!!


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

Acebird said:


> The point is to keep all your fingers and hands so you can continue doing what you love and not loose it all on one goof. And while we are on the topic of cost of wooden ware, a goof could cost in the hundreds of thousands.


Well said Ace!


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## Solomon Parker (Dec 21, 2002)

t:

What happened to talking about spending money on woodenware?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

After ten pages of mostly nonanswers no one who could answer is interested in doing so anymore.


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

You guys are right, back to the topic at hand. I thought I wasn't spending very much until my wife added up all the purchases. Wow, over 4,000 for 2011 including extractor, etc. (I only have 17 hives). I stopped what I was doing and started making much more woodenware. I have allot more time than money!


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

I average somewhere between 5 and 10 dollars per hive, per year on replacement pallets, lids, boxes and frames. Its debatable whether that is enough to keep the outfit properly maintained.


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## Solomon Parker (Dec 21, 2002)

You're so smart Mark, I want to be like you when I grow up. I'll probably shave though.

Woodenware I bought this year:
15 medium foundationless frames from Kelley.
Four medium cell bar frames.
Bunch of wood to make my own boxes, lids, and bottoms. But I won't go into that because somebody will probably try to tell me to not cut my fingers off. I've done it twice with a lawnmower, I think I got it down. If only somebody had thought to tell me not to do that before I did it. :lookout:


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

It's hard to say. I did buy 200 new mediums unassembled a cpl years ago, but haven't bought anything since.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Solomon Parker said:


> I'll probably shave though.
> 
> I've done it twice with a lawnmower, I think I got it down.


I wouldn't recommend it.

The same finger? Twice?


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Quote Originally Posted by Solomon Parker View Post
I'll probably shave though.

I've done it twice with a lawnmower, I think I got it down.


sqkcrk said:


> I wouldn't recommend it.
> 
> The same finger? Twice?


He shaves with a lawnmower? My fingers would be the last thing I was worried about......


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## Solomon Parker (Dec 21, 2002)

Three fingers on my left hand. Don't worry, they all got sewed back on and together.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

OFF TOPIC!!

Sewn together? Must make typing difficult.


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## Solomon Parker (Dec 21, 2002)

Like you say, there's not much to talk about.

Not sewn together like that. Sewn together back how they're supposed to be, so they look like fingers again. They don't cause me any problems. I even play guitar.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Well, we're having an ice and snow storm here in NY w/ lots of folks w/out power. Things are fine here, so far.


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## Solomon Parker (Dec 21, 2002)

Taking the day off huh? Good plan. You never know when you can get hurt on a day like Friday the 13th.

I actually turned 13 on Friday the 13th.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Today's the 13th? I hadn't noticed. Why'd you have to tell me?


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## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> Well, we're having an ice and snow storm here in NY w/ lots of folks w/out power. Things are fine here, so far.


Ice and snow...........whats that? Its high 60's here during the day with plenty of sunshine. Might get some wet stuff late next week.......sure hope so, its very dry here. 

Not to jinx anyone coming out for almonds, but we will probably get record rains next month!!LOL


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## Nantom670 (Jul 29, 2011)

Just a tib bit of info on Friday the 13th this year, I just noticed in the news, there will be 3 of them this year and they are exactly 13 weeks apart for the first time since 1984. t::no:


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## Scrapfe (Jul 25, 2008)

Intheswamp said:


> ... He shaves with a lawnmower? My fingers would be the last thing I was worried about......


I don't want to know how he gets a Bikini wax!!! 
And you people think i'm crazy?:banana:


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## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

Scrapfe said:


> I don't want to know how he gets a Bikini wax!!!


Gorilla Glue and 60 grit sandpaper??!!


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## Solomon Parker (Dec 21, 2002)

That's what I call a bandaid and a roll of toilet paper.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Scrapiron, I bet it's the water in Arkansas. I was driving through there coming back from Oklahoma years ago. I had a half-gallon jug that I kept filled with water and a cooler with ice to go with it. The water had ran out so when I stopped to gas up I walked over to a water hydrant and filled it up. While filling I decided to take a big swig of it. WOW!!!! I probably spit water 50 feet as I ran around in circles!!! That was absolutely the worst *anything* I've ever tasted!!! I walked into the store and blurted out "WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOUR WATER!!!". I think my lips were rolled out kinda like Cheetah use to do his in the Tarzan movies, the cashier looked at me and simply yelled "YOU DIDN'T DRINK THE WATER DID YOU???"...I was waiting for him to start dialing 911 or something. Somehow I survived, but before I left I drained their bottled water cooler on the inside of the store. I mean, folks need to put up warning signs or something...Love Canal had better water than that!!! So, it could be in the water there, Scrap. 

Anyhow, glad things worked out for you with your fingers, Parker. Do you finger chords with them? Regardless, playing guitar with them is doing good! :thumbsup:

Ed


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## woodchopper (Apr 2, 2006)

My wife and I spent a little over $500 this year on equipment. I usually buy new frames, replacement foundation, and a few other items every year when Brushy has their free shipping deal before Christmas. 
We're on our eighth year and all of our equipment including extractor has been paid for with honey sales. This hobby is a lot of fun so I don't mind the fact that I might of saved money building some or all of our equipment.


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