# How do you decide whether to add a super or a brood box?



## jones (May 9, 2011)

Hi all- another newbee here! I hived a 3-lb package about 4 weeks ago and they had 8 frames complete on Monday. My understanding is that about next weekend or so I should add something - either start supering or another brood box. Am I more likely to get through our first winter successfully if I add a BB and encourage population growth? Or am I too late to do that and they would just be storing honey anyways? Also- I should feed sugar syrup anytime comb is being drawn, right? I'm in NC- thanks for any direction you can give!


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## brac (Sep 30, 2009)

Unless you put a queen excluder on, (which you don't want to do) the bees will decide if a box will be used for honey or brood. The size of the box does not matter to the bees. Question is, in your area do you want to winter in 1 1/2 stories or 2 stories?

As for feeding, if you put on a box that you plan to harvest as honey, then don't feed with it on.


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

Don't know about NC beekeeping, but I think you'll need at least 2 of those 8 frame boxes for brood if they are deep frames.
If they are medium frames you might need 3 of them for brood.


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## Katharina (May 2, 2011)

I'm a newbee too. I did install my 3 pound packages 2 weeks ago. I'm also using 8 frames, and I have 2 hives. Yesterday, I inspected them and they had the deep frames almost all filled. So I added the second box. I do have Carniolan bees, perhaps that explains why mine are so fast filling up the frames with brood. Both queens are huge and seem to lay heavily. I will add the first super once they have almost filled up the 2 brood box. Not sure when they are ready, but so far they have been expanding very fast which makes me think I should have the equipment ready in another 2 weeks.


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## jones (May 9, 2011)

Oh, I should clarify I meant that I'm using a 10-frame brood box but the two frames on the ends are still just foundation (or were as of Monday), leaving 8 drawn frames. Assuming when I go in next weekend those end frames are drawn, sounds like I should probably just put a medium super on and let the bees fill it up with whatever they choose. Is that right? I'm a lot more concerned with overwintering than harvesting any honey this year but a little would be nice to offer my hesitant neighbors!

Katharina, when you super are you going to use a queen excluder? Brac, why do you advise against using one? I know drones can get stuck in them but don't know why a drone would be trying to go up.

Let's say a medium super gets filled with 5 brood frames and 5 honey. Can you harvest those honey stores & replace with empty frames?


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## brac (Sep 30, 2009)

She doesn't have drawn comb, and more often then not, bees won't draw foundation above an excluder. They'll just swarm instead.

Yes, you can harvest by the frame, just be sure to feed for winter if needed.


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## honeybeekeeper (Mar 3, 2010)

I would move the #1 frame to the 3rd frame position and the #10 frame to the 8th position! Moving the frames in will get them drawn alot quicker and add another deep brood box! That would be your best choice! Good Luck!


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

Some people in the south run their hives with one deep, & one medium brood box. then honey supers to rob from on top of those.
You're bottom boxes or brood boxes you usually don't rob from unless they need more room before a honey flow.

I'm assuming other beekeepers in you're area run 2 deeps for brood, & then put the medium supers for honey on top of those.
If 8 of you're 10 frames are drawn with wax comb, you are ready for the second box.


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## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

Add a super and let the girls figure out if it is a brood box or honey super.


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## jones (May 9, 2011)

Ah, good suggestion about checkerboarding the frames to get them drawn faster!

Drawback to mixing brood box sizes is- how can you reverse frames to prevent swarming? I guess you could just switch the whole box but I was taught that you put all the capped brood frames up top and the youngun's below to help the queen (Katherine Middleton, I call her) feel like she has more real estate. I'm assembling both options tonight and then I'll probably not be able to sleep for trying to decide. I think most people around here have 2 BBs.


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## walking bird (Mar 2, 2008)

All my hives are Deep/Medium brood, with medium or shallow supers depending on what I've got ready. We don't have tough winters in SoCal, so we don't need huge brood and giant stores to get through those months. Don't know about NC; it may be that double-deeps is a good way to go. At any rate, you can't go wrong, especially if you're not worried about trying to get honey from an installed package its first year.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Assuming you run all the same sized boxes with no excluder, it doesn't matter...

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesulbn.htm

Assuming you want to use an excluder and you care which is which, then I would talk to the local beekeepers and find out what works in your climate.


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## honeybees (Oct 19, 2009)

ah could we possibly dwell on the sentence of "bees won't draw foundation above an excluder" is this true? thanks


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## dixiebeeco (May 3, 2011)

Honeybeekeeper's method is what I run on my 9 hives here in Sumter SC. 2 large boxes for brood and them mediums for honey supers. The 6 hives in the back yard all have two honey supers on them with the exception of two hives that have 3 supers on them since they each already have 1 1/2mediums full of capped honey. 
To keep you sane, either run all mediums or large boxes for the brood area. That way you have the same equipment and frame sizes when you decide to start making splits or rotating boxes in the spring. 

Hig,


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## MJuric (Jul 12, 2010)

honeybees said:


> ah could we possibly dwell on the sentence of "bees won't draw foundation above an excluder" is this true? thanks


Yes that caught my attention as well. First year keeper here as well with nothing but undrawn or no foundation. Was playing with the idea of using or not using an excluder if and when I get to that point.

~Matt


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

Not trying to take this off topic but a couple people have asked.
When I start a honey super without drawn comb, I leave the excluder out until the bees start using the super. Once they are using it I shake all the bees down into the lower boxes to make sure the queen isn't up there. Then put the excluder in.
Keep in mind a lot of beekeepers don't use excluders at all, & don't like them. The decision will have to be you're own whether or not to use them.


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## wcubed (Aug 24, 2008)

Will address your question on feeding:
You did not mention whether or not you a feeding now, but it isn't needed now. Your spring flow will be trailing off in the next couple of weeks. Then, to keep them growing through the summer, you must feed syrup generously. In the Southeast, most natural swarms fail during that period. The first part of establishment is oriented to building the brood nest and population. When that is done they can concentrate on adding winter honey. 

In the cylinder that is the hollow tree, they add honey at the top as the brood nest grows downward. But we give them a flat box to start and shut off downward growth, forcing them to grow laterally. As a result, they don't get enough honey stored overhead to make it through the summer doldrums. So we add a box and feed. Although it's upside down to their instincts, they adapt and most will add brood upward in the added box(es)
Walt.


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