# Hiving a swarm problems



## mrchips (May 25, 2015)

I collected a swarm yesterday and it seems to have rejected the offered hive and 'balled' on the front of the box so I got a polystyrene nuc box with a swarm bait installed and offered them that but they were again reluctant to enter. As the evening was approaching I swept them into a box and poured them into the nuc box and shut them in there fr the night. 

This morning I opened the entrance for them hoping they might have decided that the accommodation was not too bad but apparently not. I had to go out this morning but when I returned the bees were again 'balled' on the front of the hive. 

I've not seen sight of the queen so I don't know if she is there or not. I'm tempted to catch them up again and put them back in the nuc box. Anyone any ideas?


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

Put a frame of open brood in the box.


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## mrchips (May 25, 2015)

deknow said:


> Put a frame of open brood in the box.


Thanks for coming back to me. FYI this is the start of my 2nd year in bee-keeping and only my 2nd capture of a swarm.

Ummm! A frame of open brood will need feeding won't it? They have now been out of a hive for about 30 hours and though they 'fill-up' for swarming I imagine they will be starting to get hungry themselves so:
a) Will they just 'go to it' and adopt and feed open brood and 
b) Will they have enough food with them to feed the open brood? 

In any case, it's now 6.30pm and I guess it'll be a job for the morningas I'm in a valley and the sun is already off the apiary.


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## GaryG74 (Apr 9, 2014)

Most of the time swarms will start foraging almost immediately and start bringing in nectar and pollen so they would be able to feed brood. The frame with the brood will probably have some stores of both honey and pollen in it if it's not completely wall to wall brood. 
When I have a swarm that acts like it will not stay in a hive or leaves the hive, I'll put a queen excluder under the hive box to keep the queen in and remove it 3 or 4 days later. I don't put it under the box until all the bees are in the hive so I don't block the queen outside the box. If no excluder, the open brood should work every time unless there's something wrong (odor or chemicals inside the box) with the box. Good luck!


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## mrchips (May 25, 2015)

Thanks guys. I'll give it a go. I've just been up to check the hive and the bees are all still clinging on to the front of the box so I've not lost them (yet).


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## mrchips (May 25, 2015)

mrchips said:


> Thanks guys. I'll give it a go. I've just been up to check the hive and the bees are all still clinging on to the front of the box so I've not lost them (yet).


Hmmm! Don't think our Welsh bees read the same books on brood care as your American bees. 

I put a frame of open brood in and the swarm did seem to be moving in. Now, what three hours later I've just been up to check on them and they're all hanging on the front of the hive again with five or six waggle dancers providing the 'hanging around crowd' with some entertainment.

Maybe I'll box them and take them to a friends apiary and see if a change of scenery does any good.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

mrchips said:


> Hmmm! Don't think our Welsh bees read the same books on brood care as your American bees.
> 
> I put a frame of open brood in and the swarm did seem to be moving in. Now, what three hours later I've just been up to check on them and they're all hanging on the front of the hive again with five or six waggle dancers providing the 'hanging around crowd' with some entertainment.
> 
> Maybe I'll box them and take them to a friends apiary and see if a change of scenery does any good.


Shake them in on top of the brood.

Is the box in full sun? Is it sufficiently large enough for the swarm?


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

+1


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## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

Do you have a screened bottom board? Swarms need a solid board with no light until they get established.


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## mrchips (May 25, 2015)

Having tried several times to get the swarm into a hive (two different hives tried) I decided to not waste any more time with them and went and spoke to them. I said;

"I'd be very happy to care for you all and give you a home and feed you as necessary and treat you for varroa etc etc but if they wanted to sod off they could!" 

I passed the hive ten minutes later they were all moving in! Half an hour or so later there was only a very few bees to be seen on the hive but they were obviously getting their bearings and had started flying to and fro. As the box they went in was a nuc box with a queen excluder option fitted I decided to use the queen excluder to stop a possible change of mind!

Not sure about how to approach the varroa treatment. As I put in a frame of brood I guess I shouldn't treat them with oxalic acid but I suspect the brood has chilled as they took so long to take up residence. Or should I just sacrifice the brood and treat for varroa? Comments/advice welcome.

They do seem to be a big swarm for a nuc box so I suspect I'll have to rehome them in a brood box in the very near future.


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

They sound as if they are queenless.


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## mrchips (May 25, 2015)

Mr.Beeman said:


> They sound as if they are queenless.


That may be so. I didn't see a queen when I was trying to hive them. I guess she could have been lost when I first collected the swarm, if not she's in the box now as there were no bees left outside the box when put the queen excluder in place. I'll give them a couple of days to settle down a bit and then have a good look through them. If I can't find her I'll put a frame of brood and eggs in and they can make their own queen unless they have started already with the frame of open brood. However, I was looking for a frame of open brood and didn't notice if there were any eggs in the frame I put in so maybe not.


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