# Can you stick a capped swarm cell in a queen less hive?



## Bee scared (May 21, 2016)

Cant get queens for a few months.

I was wondering if I find a capped swarm cell or cells can you just cut them out and stick them in a hive thats queenless??
I probably could stick the whole frame in but dont want to rob everything from the strong hive and for fun was wondering if I could just snip out and wire in the q cell??


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## Bees of SC (Apr 12, 2013)

Yes you can. Take a capped queen cell ten days after the egg has hatched, 5 days after the queen cell has been capped.. .Youtube Don the fat bee man


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Not if there are laying workers.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

That's how folks that raise queens do it.

Why is your colony queenless?


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## Bees of SC (Apr 12, 2013)

other post are right, I just took for granted that the hive was hopelessly queenless. Some times we forget where we are and how it was when we started, sory...


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

Bee scared said:


> I was wondering if I find a capped swarm cell or cells can you just cut them out and stick them in a hive thats queenless??


Yes. Be very gentle with it, particularly if it is within a couple of days of emerging. Laying worker hives will generally accept a capped queen cell.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

It's going to me more likely to work if the cell is on or between frames of brood, so I would probably just leave it on the frame. If you give the queenright colony an empty frame from the queenless one it will hardly skip a beat.


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

David LaFerney said:


> It's going to me more likely to work if the cell is on or between frames of brood, so I would probably just leave it on the frame. If you give the queenright colony an empty frame from the queenless one it will hardly skip a beat.


+1. 



Michael Palmer said:


> Well then I'll repost here... I get plenty of LW in my mating nucs, especially if the virgin fails twice. I always give them a cell anyway, and often it is accepted without adding brood.
> 
> There was an article in the back of ABJ a few years ago...actually a summary of papers published. They compared LW in Italians and Russians and the % of each to accept cell. Wanted to know if Russian LWs would more readily accept cell. Both were about 75%


This was from another thread.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

That's good to know. However in my area if I just add a cell to a mating nuc that already has laying worker in noticeable amounts it will almost always succumb to hive beetles, because it's just too weak to prevent it.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

It sounds like it may matter how long they have had laying workers: It is going to be approaching another month before an introduced ripe queen cell, if it successfully mates, could field the first foragers


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## Bee scared (May 21, 2016)

Bees of SC said:


> Yes you can. Take a capped queen cell ten days after the egg has hatched, 5 days after the queen cell has been capped.. .Youtube Don the fat bee man


Thanks will check it out.


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

David LaFerney said:


> That's good to know. However in my area if I just add a cell to a mating nuc that already has laying worker in noticeable amounts it will almost always succumb to hive beetles, because it's just too weak to prevent it.


That is a very good point. Location and hive size matter.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Not if there are laying workers.

Sometimes it works fine with laying workers.


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## Bee scared (May 21, 2016)

sqkcrk said:


> That's how folks that raise queens do it.
> 
> Why is your colony queenless?


Cheers mate, as to why queenless?? God knows?? Just no eggs in an apiary that has 20 other hives and are all producing honey.

Queen could of died, and when they re-queened didnt make it back to the hive. See my post on bee eaters haha.


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## Bee scared (May 21, 2016)

crofter said:


> Not if there are laying workers.


Excuse my ignorance, but how can they be laying worker bee's if there isnt a queen?

Or are you talking of the hive I'd be robbing the swarm cell from??


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Excuse my ignorance, but how can they be laying worker bee's if there isnt a queen?

There is almost never a queen if there are laying workers. Indirectly the lack of a queen is the cause. No queen means no brood and no brood for too long leads to laying workers.


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## Bee scared (May 21, 2016)

Michael Bush said:


> >Excuse my ignorance, but how can they be laying worker bee's if there isnt a queen?
> 
> There is almost never a queen if there are laying workers. Indirectly the lack of a queen is the cause. No queen means no brood and no brood for too long leads to laying workers.


Ah ok I took that to mean, worker bee's being laid, not workers laying drones. My bad.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Bee scared said:


> Cant get queens for a few months.
> 
> I was wondering if I find a capped swarm cell or cells can you just cut them out and stick them in a hive thats queenless??


Well, I'm confused. 

You seem to be in Australia, so it is your 'winter' season, which would explain why queens are not available to purchase. But why would swarm cells be available in a season when commercial queens are not?


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## Bee scared (May 21, 2016)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> Well, I'm confused.
> 
> You seem to be in Australia, so it is your 'winter' season, which would explain why queens are not available to purchase. But why would swarm cells be available in a season when commercial queens are not?


It was a big "IF" i find capped swarm cells haha. I was just wondering if I came across it in the future. Have lost a few hives due to bad practice of the guy we bought the hives off. He had 85 hives in one area to sell them. Also would quite often let them requeen themselves. However brood comb was in poor shape, So virgin queen would go on maiden flight but when she returned was small enough to get above queen excluder. Lay in top box, then when he took honey off, never checked for brood, clearing board on and next day he would use a garden blower to blow out remaining bee's thus blowing new queen to hell and back. Then that whole box of latest brood was taken to honey shed. Hive has no eggs to breed new queen etc. Slowly dies queenless. We must of lost 8 hives this way. We believe.


So just forward looking for solutions in the future, wondered if it was possible. 

Cheers.


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