# #7 Hardware Cloth



## Joseph Clemens

All my screened bottom boards in the future will be #7 hardware cloth, because I discovered it works better for pollen traps and it was more economical to buy a large roll of #7 hardware cloth than two smaller rolls each, of #7 and #8.


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## Tim Hall

That's my thinking...minimizing the types of materials needed for building will probably be cheaper and simpler. I'm just so new to this, I'm thinking there must be some unforeseen (at least to me) disaster waiting if I screen my bottoms in #7.


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## dcross

Is there a chance yellowjackets could squeeze through?


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## Tim Hall

Yeah, that kind of disaster. I'm just hoping someone will say, "I use it all the time for screened bottoms with no worries," before I go and order a whole roll of the stuff.

Anyone have any experience with this application?


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## BerkeyDavid

Joseph Clemens said:


> All my screened bottom boards in the future will be #7 hardware cloth, because I discovered it works better for pollen traps and it was more economical to buy a large roll of #7 hardware cloth than two smaller rolls each, of #7 and #8.


Joe

Where did you find the best price for #7?


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## Tim Hall

I haven't found a best price for #7 per say...it's not something that wire mesh manufacturers keep in stock. The only place I know of that stocks it is Betterbee. I just don't want to buy both #7 _and _ #8 if #7 will suffice for both applications. It's cheaper if you buy one big roll.

Oh, sorry...I see that post was for Joseph. If you know a cheaper source, I'd like to know too.


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## Joseph Clemens

*Source for low-priced 7x7 galvanized hardware cloth*

About a year ago, when I was searching for some reasonably priced #7 wire mesh, I did a search using Google. Nothing seemed reasonably priced, until I suddenly discovered one that did. It was a hardware store that sold online, and the shipping was awful, but all-together the price was very good. I was a little apprehensive, but after I received the wire, I was quite pleased.

Unfortunately I had to replace my computers hard drive and did not have a backup of my browser's favorite places. I did not keep any record of my purchase. I have tried to locate the same store online, but have not yet rediscovered it. If I do locate it again, I will list it here.


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## Gary L

*# 7 mesh*

I used buy a lot of both #7 and #5 from Howard Wire Cloth in Hayward California. I'm pretty sure they are still in business because this was a big outfit. they always had the best inventory and prices. You can even have it in stainless if you are willing to pay the price. I think #8 is used primarily because it's usually available at any hardware store. Yellow jackets can't get through #7.


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## Beesilly

i was just wondering what the wire bottoms are for? more ventilation? pest control? im a newbee so im still learning!
thank you!
beesilly


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## Joseph Clemens

I use my screened bottom boards (SBB) to increase ventilation and to keep toads from eating all my bees.


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## Tim Hall

I called Howard (and about a half dozen others) earlier today, and was told they no longer stock it.

It seems beeks are the sole source of demand for 7-mesh hot-dip galvanized hardware cloth on the planet, and we're not a large enough constituency to matter. I consider myself and advanced Googler, and I think I've exhausted every possible resource on this continent. (But there's always China...where it all comes from anyway.) Looks like I'll be ordering from Betterbee.


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## Gary L

*# 7 Hardware Cloth*

Tim, sorry I gave you a bum steer, I was sure Howard would have that stuff. Betterbee gets theirs from somewhere. Are they direct importers? I'm sure there is a supplier who wholesales to all the pollen trap manufacturers. I'm not very computer savvy but try wholesale hardware if you haven't already. If you find it please post the source I need a couple of rolls of both #7 and #5.


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## TX Ashurst

IMHO, if #7 will work effectively for pollen traps, then using it in a SBB will mean pollen will get stripped from the bees if they choose to enter via the bottom. So, if you use #7 SBB, you should have a tray to catch it and put it to use, managing for the reduced pollen arriving in the nest. My experience is that the bees WILL use the bottom as an entrance.


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## Tim Hall

Well, I have not found anyone else that has the #7 in stock. I ended up ordering #7 (pollen traps) and #8 (bottom) from Betterbee. Gary, you didn't steer me the wrong way...I had actually discovered Howard on the internet and already contacted them before you mentioned anything.


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## Focus on Bees

I think Lapps Bee Supply in WI has it. I don't know where they get it from, but would be interested in finding out. i believe I bought some from them last year.


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## Joseph Clemens

TX Ashurst said:


> IMHO, if #7 will work effectively for pollen traps, then using it in a SBB will mean pollen will get stripped from the bees if they choose to enter via the bottom. So, if you use #7 SBB, you should have a tray to catch it and put it to use, managing for the reduced pollen arriving in the nest. My experience is that the bees WILL use the bottom as an entrance.


TX Ashurst,
I should explain: In a pollen trap the bees squeeze through #5 mesh where most of their pollen load is knocked off. When they squeeze through the #5 mesh, they are either walking on or above either #8 mesh or #7 mesh. Bees cannot go through either of these, but the pollen that has been dislodged from the bees pollen baskets will fall through and then into the collection drawer and the #8 or #7 mesh will keep the bees out of it. The reason #7 is recommended for this purpose, rather than #8 is that larger pollen loads will not pass through #8 mesh and will eventually clog it up.

Using #7 mesh in SBBs will not allow bees or most wasps to pass through, but will allow more mites or more and larger debris to drop through.


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## Jeffzhear

Joseph Clemens said:


> TX Ashurst,
> I should explain: In a pollen trap the bees squeeze through #5 mesh where most of their pollen load is knocked off. When they squeeze through the #5 mesh, they are either walking on or above either #8 mesh or #7 mesh. Bees cannot go through either of these, but the pollen that has been dislodged from the bees pollen baskets will fall through and then into the collection drawer and the #8 or #7 mesh will keep the bees out of it. The reason #7 is recommended for this purpose, rather than #8 is that larger pollen loads will not pass through #8 mesh and will eventually clog it up.
> 
> Using #7 mesh in SBBs will not allow bees or most wasps to pass through, but will allow more mites or more and larger debris to drop through.


Thanks for the explanation Joe. I was doing a search and came upon this thread. Does anyone know a less expensive source then Betterbee?


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## Tim Hall

I've gained some insight into this hardware cloth issue. Apparently the odd sizes (#5, #7, etc.) are special order items form the manufacturer. In other words, the factories in China don't warehouse any of the odd sizes, and fewer and fewer distributors are carrying the odd-size stuff simply because ONLY beekeepers seem to use it. 

I called over a dozen different places across the US, and followed every lead from this forum. I finally gave up when I called one place, told the person on the other end what I was looking for, and he replied,"oh, you must be a beekeeper. Yeah, we stopped carrying that." Bottom line: Betterbee is one of the last (if not THE last) source for this stuff right now.


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## longrangedog

Brushy mountain sells it by the roll. The past two Decembers they've also had a "free shipping" promotion. A good deal.


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## Joseph Clemens

longrangedog said:


> Brushy mountain sells it by the roll. The past two Decembers they've also had a "free shipping" promotion. A good deal.


I can't find it on their website, I found #5 and #8, but not #7. I'll probably have to call them or email. Here is a link to Better Bee, their website indicates that they carry it. I would expect that a full 100 foot roll would be expensive to ship to Arizona. http://www.betterbee.com/products.asp?dept=522


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## beyondthesidewalks

On a whim I just stopped by a "real" hardware store in the old part of Corsicana. They are the kind of hardware store that sells lye soap, rubbing boards, canning supplies and every kind of hardware you can imagine. They are not the big blue or orange box. Anyway, I asked if they carried #8 hardware cloth figuring that would be more common than #5 or #7. They didn't know what I was talking about. So giving up and starting to walk out of the store, the old-timer that I asked stopped me. He asked if that meant 8 wires per inch. I replied and he commented that they had one roll that they have had for years. Just the other day he sold one foot off the brand new 3' wide roll. It was $2.37 per foot but it is #8 hardware cloth and I don't have to pay any shipping so it's a pretty good deal. They'll sell me the whole roll for $190 bucks but I don't need 99 feet of it. I bought 10 feet.

The moral to this story is go check out your local hardware store. You never know what you might find.


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## longrangedog

ACE hardware also carries #7 and #8 hardware cloth but price a 100 ft roll at around 230.00 plus tax. With free shipping from Brushy mountain I could have bought two at that price.


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## Joseph Clemens

longrangedog said:


> ACE hardware also carries #7 and #8 hardware cloth but price a 100 ft roll at around 230.00 plus tax. With free shipping from Brushy mountain I could have bought two at that price.


I've searched Brushy Mountain's website and printed catalog, and all I find is #5 and #8. Are you certain it was Brushy Mountain where you found #7?


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## davpress

http://www.betterbee.com/products.asp?dept=522

size 5, 6, 7, 8 are listed here.

David


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## slackker

*#7 Screen*

I have found something called Plastic Canvas. It is used for embroidering in craft shops. I ordered some on line that came in 18 inch x 12 inch #7 extra stiff. I have not received it yet. I also checked at a craft store and they did have Plastic Canvas but they did not carry the extra stiff. I do think it could have been ordered. The #7 appears to be the standard at most stores but #8 is made by Manufacture that I checked. I will cut the 12 inch in half and take the 18 inch length, lap one square and hot glue it to splice it together. I have no connection to the website below except that I ordered from them. 

The link to a site for Plastic Canvas is http://www.everythingplasticcanvas.com/pc-20056-260-ultra-stiff-canvas-7-mesh-12-x-18.aspx
_________________
A Nod Is As Good As A Wink...To A Blind Horse

Also another guy had said he found something "The plastic mesh that I used is sold at HomeDepot in Canada as "Gutter Guard". It's a 6"x20ft roll, meant to be used to keep leaves and other detritus out of the eavestroughs. $5 .. "


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## Tim Hall

It looks like the aperture is quite a bit smaller than #7 hardware cloth. It's not so much the count as the size of the opening that's important for pollen collection. I'm half thinking about importing a bunch of hardware cloth just for beeks, and sell it myself ....maybe stainless steel instead of zinced.


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## Tim Hall

It's amazing how long a thread can go about just one commodity...


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## Shapleigh's Bees

Yes, I'm growing weary of it


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## Shapleigh's Bees

I saw some 8" wide by some tremendous length of hardware cloth in aluminum or fiberglass at Lowe's today, and couldn't help but wonder how many holes per linear inch it had. Seemed like the best format for TBH. Was marketed as gutter covering.


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## Tim Hall

It's not actually "hardware cloth" so to speak since it's not woven. It's "expanded metal." And as I posted above, the count is not so important as the aperture.


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## Shapleigh's Bees

It was woven, not expanded, and it's about the size of window screen. It may very well have been window screeen.


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## Ross

www.mcmaster.com


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## Tim Hall

I think I already checked with those guys, and they do not stock #7. I think this is special order item ($$$$$).

Edit: Upon closer inspection it appears they carry SS #7 for about $20/sq.-ft. Stainless is nice, but a little pricey for me.


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