# Frames



## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

I have made about 300 of them with a table saw. I used the free plans off this site. Found the plans here.
http://www.beesource.com/build-it-yourself/

I went foundationless and cut the top bar 45 degrees on each side to make a v for the bee guide. I can't tell you how it will work cause I don't have bees yet. They are time consuming to make (I have more time then money) and it is so much easier to assemble them now that I have a staple/brad gun.
Good luck
gww

Ps I am not a wood worker and watched lots of you tube vidios for ideals. I can make about 20 a day where some one good can do hundreds.


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## DirtyLittleSecret (Sep 10, 2014)

Would need to have a lot of time to kill to build my own. Mann Lake makes higher quality than I could build and has free shipping.


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

Depends on what you have for equipment -- if you have a band saw and a table saw, they work pretty well. Just a table saw and wastage is rather high.

I've posted this before, a search will give you more details, but I cut top bars from a 2x6 or 2x8. Plane flat, just enough to get a solid flat surface on each side, no more. Cut to 19" exactly (this is critical, there won't be more than 1/16" or so free space on each end in a standard box). Mill a slot 1/2" from each side the correct distance from the ends (I use a commercial one as a model, don't remember the exact dimensions) -- 3/8" dado works pretty well, cut both sides. Make a bunch for each step.

Set up the saw to give a taper on the same slot that makes the thickness toward the outside 3/8" at 3/8" from the end, probably 8 degrees or so, you want a ledge for the end bar to fix over full thickness. Cut both sides, both ends of all your blanks. 

Split blanks into top bars, 1 1/16" wide. You can ignore the radius on the corners, won't bother the bees any. Center pieces sometimes warp badly, don't hesitate to toss them. You can use a table saw or a band saw for this job, but if you use the band saw be careful to make very straight cuts, and dress the side of the slab if it gets lumpy. Table saw works great, but you lose one pair of top bars on 2x8 I think.

Set up a dado blade with width of you end bars and cut a shallow groove at the appropriate point on both sides of each pair, both ends. Split the top bar pairs into singles, then cut a slot down the center for foundation if you are using it, or taper for foundationless. Cut the second slot if you are making wedge type top bars, which is what I do.

End bars can be cut from 2x6 or 2x8, you want "white wood" with no knots. Yellow pine is great for top bars, but splits as end bars.

Plane down to 1 3/8", cut a slot in the top at the center to match your top bars -- I usually make the end bars first and cut the top bars to fit using my dado set with a 0.005 or 0.010" spacer. You can also use 3/4" if you match them up.

Cut a pair of slots at 5/16" leaving the width of your table saw blade between them (mine is a bit less than 1/8" as I use thin blades). Be careful here, it affects the fit of the bottom bars. Do a pile, you need lots of them.

Slice your end bars off the blocks with the slots cut -- I like to make mine a full 3/8", factory ones are usually 5/16". Make sure the grooves in the sides of the top bars match, also the ledge where they fit together, it needs to be full width. I use a band saw, give me one more per slab.

Bottom bars can be either 5/16" squares cut from anything and 17 and something inches long (measure or use the dimensions in the plans here), or you can take a 1x something that is quite flat and straight, cut to length, cut a saw kerf down the exact middle the depth of the thickness of your end bars, then cut 1/2" slices (or 3/8" slices) off. Cut another saw kerf almost all the way through the bar lengthwise matching up with the first cut, this gives you a grooved bar that is much stronger and easier to install.

I'm going to have to get to work soon, I need about 500 shallow and medium frames, plus some deeps for new hives by March.

Peter


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## drlonzo (Apr 15, 2014)

Here is a Youtube video that show the process. There is two parts to the process he uses.
Part One:


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## drlonzo (Apr 15, 2014)

Here is part two of the process: 




Hope this helps!


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

I really like all his hive building vidios.
gww


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## Ddawg (Feb 17, 2012)

I build all my own hive equipment, with the exception of frames. To me it's just not economical to make my own frames when compared to the cost of ordering them from a dealer.


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## Dan the bee guy (Jun 18, 2015)

It's not hard to make frames I make all mine because I use small cell 1 1/4 wide frames. Just be patient when setting up your saw make hundreds of parts at a time. All of mine were wedge top grooved bottom 9 1/8 deep.


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## Treehopper (Dec 9, 2012)

It's very important to check dimensions and fit of the first pieces off the saw before you go into full production mode...trust me on that one!


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## ralittlefield (Apr 25, 2011)

I made a bunch of frames once, and once was enough. I buy all my frames. I would only make them if I had a lot of spare time to kill, and I don't.


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

I run all mediums for everything. I was eager as a newbee years ago and made my own frames. THEN, I found out I can get frames and waxed coated plastic rite cell foundation shipped (from Mann Lake) to my door for just under 1.00 per piece. Under 2.00 per completed frame! I have my techs assemble them (100 frames) which takes an hour.


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## ralittlefield (Apr 25, 2011)

Mr.Beeman said:


> I have my techs assemble them (100 frames) which takes an hour.


I assemble about 1500 frames per year for the hives that I sell. Using a frame assembly jig I have gotten my assembly time down to about a frame per minute (working alone). (I like Mann Lake frames also. They bevel the notches in the endbars to make insertion of top and bottom bars easier.)


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

This collection of frame making threads may be useful to you ...
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?318714-Frame-Component-Manufacturing


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

By the time you burn your gas going after your wood and back and then the price of your wood and then the electricity cost of running your equipment you are not saving much at all.Then there is all the time and work going into making them.Now if you just want something to do then by all means do it.Mann Lake free shipping on a $100 order will get you a 100 frames plus a little extra something you need anyway and then all you have to do is pick them up off your door step.I have made frames that were just as tight and good as store bought but got all my wood free since we had a lumberyard and it still wasnt worth pursuing.Lots of time and work for so little you save.


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## Fishmaster50 (Apr 30, 2015)

Thanks for all the input. I can get the wood for free but it seems like a lot of time for setting each set up. So looking for a deal on frames and foundations. Snapper you can buy a 100 frame package from Mann lake?


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## ralittlefield (Apr 25, 2011)

Mann Lake sells frames in cases of 100, but a case is less than $100. so unless you add to the order you will not get free shipping. (Do you need foundation also?)


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

If I just buy 1 case of frames from them I can always find something to spend another $10 on just to get that free shipping!


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## ralittlefield (Apr 25, 2011)

snapper1d said:


> If I just buy 1 case of frames from them I can always find something to spend another $10 on just to get that free shipping!


It's not much trouble to find something that we "need"!


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## Fishmaster50 (Apr 30, 2015)

Yes I would need foundation also. I can't seem to find the case of a hundred (100) do they sell foundation by the hundred too?


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## ralittlefield (Apr 25, 2011)

Fishmaster50 said:


> Yes I would need foundation also. I can't seem to find the case of a hundred (100) do they sell foundation by the hundred too?


On the Mann Lake website find the unassembled wood frames. Cases of 100 are between cases of 10 and bulk cases.

http://www.mannlakeltd.com/beekeeping-supplies/category/page20.html 

They do sell foundation by 100 also.


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

I build all my own frames because they are 1.25 inch end bars. Once you learn the techniques required, it is not that time consuming. My cost per frame works out to about 30 cents for materials and I pay myself slave labor wages.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Fusion_power said:


> I build all my own frames because they are 1.25 inch end bars. Once you learn the techniques required, it is not that time consuming. My cost per frame works out to about 30 cents for materials and I pay myself slave labor wages.


In your design do you also narrow the top bar so that space between bars is the same as standard 1 3/8" frames? I have some that have merely had the side bars shaved and the resulting space between topbars really markedly increases bridging with burr comb.


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

I cut topbars 7/8 inch wide. Tendency to build bridge and brace comb is reduced with properly cut frames, not increased.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Fusion_power said:


> I cut topbars 7/8 inch wide. Tendency to build bridge and brace comb is reduced with properly cut frames, not increased.


I thought it a worthwhile note for someone about to make frames that a narrower spacing by shaving sidebars only is not a 100% solution. The topbar needs attention too though it would be tempting not to redesign it.


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