# young newbee



## Rader Sidetrack

Welcome to Beesource!

An interesting project, for sure. Transporting bees via _kayak _is definitely a _different _concept, to say the least! 

You might want to look a Michael Bush's Top Bar page. Very simple to construct. If you chose to put an insulated top on that would be very easy to incorporate to this design:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beestopbarhives.htm
You could just put a layer of foamboard under the wood lid. Note the bees don't have access to the upper side of the top bars, so they would not be able to chew the foam.


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## valerieanne

Thanks, Graham! So, we would truck this thing out via motorboat at the beginning of the season, and it could stay there? When harvesting honey, it is a little vague about what is appropriate to take home/leave for the bees - any ideas on that? Also, looks like keeping it level is ciritcal - how often should it be checked for level?

This looks viable. After the intial set-up and acclimation period, it looks relatively low-maintenance. I'm going to spend a little time investigating KTBH maintenance and harvest. We are starting to stretch my carpentry skills with the window, but daughter loves it.


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## Rader Sidetrack

Having the hive "level", is mostly an issue when the bees are building comb. So of course you need it to be level when first installed. After that, it depends on whether/when you harvest honey, and if there is nectar available for the bees to rebuild.

As far as timing a harvest, I would recommend leaving all honey for the bees the first summer (except perhaps harvest a small amount to maintain a child's interest in the project - perhaps one bar). The following spring you can assess how much they used over the winter and act accordingly.


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## Lazer128

Awesome project in an awesome place. We want pictures!


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## Scott Klein

My first thought is to find a local survivor stock of bees rather than mail-ordering bees from far away. You might have some nicely adapted local stock near you, and you might even consider swarm trapping/catching to keep your local genetics clean. Do you know how far it is to your nearest existing beekeeper?


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## valerieanne

We have a woman about 1.5 hours away. She has 10 colonies, and she may be able to "shake off" some bees for us (assume that means exactly what it sounds like). They have been acclimating to her microclimate for about ten years. The day we visited, she had bees flying at 1 degree C. She's chem free. Or, at least, her bees are.

Never in my life have I seen or looked for a swarm! We have several biologists working the forest in spring... what/where are we looking for a wild swarm???

We've decided to go with the Warre plans for portability. The KTBH is kinda big, and I like the idea of less interference/interaction 

I might be inviting trouble with this question... would drilling holes in the top of the uppermost hive box suffice as a top entrance? It's cool here, so I was thinking of drilling holes the "warm" way. It's a little confusing (possibly nuts?) putting a top-entrance on a Warre, as I'm not sure how to incorporate the entrance without closing off the quilt. Google isn't helping.

Also, it sounds like the bees build brood downwards, toward the entrance, as hive boxes are added from below. Am I fighting the bees' instincts, by introducing hive boxes AWAY from the entrance (entrance above, empty boxes below)? Should I (gulp) be adding hive boxes above, and harvesting honey from the lower boxes, as the bees move brood toward the entrance? Show patience with me, people. Thanks.


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## Scott Klein

valerieanne said:


> We have a woman about 1.5 hours away. She has 10 colonies, and she may be able to "shake off" some bees for us...


You have an opportunity that many beekeepers would be envious of, maybe even Tom Seeley. Are you familiar with his book "Honeybee Democracy"?


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## valerieanne

Hi Scott. No, I've never read it. You are talking with a woman who has been googling beekeeping for all of 1 week - since our last 4H meeting. I'll order it in at the library, which may take some time. In the meanwhile, are you saying I should take this woman up on her offer? Or, are you saying DONT, but try to hunt down a swarm? I know nothing about bees, but I do live in a research forest - I don't want to screw with honeybee ecology in my area just for a 4H project.


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## Scott Klein

valerieanne said:


> Hi Scott. No, I've never read it. You are talking with a woman who has been googling beekeeping for all of 1 week - since our last 4H meeting. I'll order it in at the library, which may take some time. In the meanwhile, are you saying I should take this woman up on her offer? Or, are you saying DONT, but try to hunt down a swarm? I know nothing about bees, but I do live in a research forest - I don't want to screw with honeybee ecology in my area just for a 4H project.


It sounds like she has good stock and it's not impolite to ask what the bee breed is, if known. She may say mix or mutt, which is fine if she has had good success keeping them. If she does say a specific breed, it might be worth asking if she purchases queens from out of the area.

Swarms are usually a genetic gamble, but probably not so much in your situation because you are so isolated, relatively speaking. You may not get many swarms from wild bees, but I am guessing that late may to June would be the peak swarm season for you. The benefit of a swarm is that they are ideal to start a Warre, because they are primed to make a lot of wax as part of the swarming behavior.

I'll not pester you with it after this, but I think you and your daughter might enjoy reading Seeley's book.
http://press.princeton.edu/titles/9267.html


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## KMP

Scott Klein said:


> I'll not pester you with it after this, but I think you and your daughter might enjoy reading Seeley's book.
> http://press.princeton.edu/titles/9267.html


Yes, I wholeheartedly concur. She's still a bit young for parts of it, perhaps, but if she has the slightest interest in biology (and bees) this could make a lovely birthday gift, IMO.

-K


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## Andrew Dewey

I placed bees for pollination on an island one year and bears swam out to the island and took out the unprotected hives. You ought to at least think about the bear issue some more. Do you have access to electric fencing materials and a solar energizer? I'd hate to be the parent of a nine year old whose hive was destroyed by a hungry bear.


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## valerieanne

Scott - Phew! I got a little nervous there  Yes, we will definitely get Seeley's book, and we have access to a publications database as well.

Andrew - We will be putting in electric fencing, with a solar panel and battery or two. We'll put chicken wire around the base and hang tin cans with peanut butter... hope for the best.

What about my specific questions regarding construction? Thanks for all the input!


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## Andrew Dewey

I note you said Warre sized hives. I do not keep Warre hives (though I have thought about it!) so take what I have to say as potentially uninformed. My understanding is that the whole Warre concept depends on having a bottom entrance. If you have a top entrance and holes in the bottom, I'm not sure what you'd call it, but you'll proably be having Warre turn in his grave!

If you want to do something with a top entrance consider 8 frame mediums (Langstroth type). Without doing the math I'd guess that two of those are going to roughly equal the capacity of a single Warre box. Plus there is lots of info on using upper entrances with that type of configuration.

I use entrance feeders solely for feeding water and believe can attract too much robbing to use as a regular feeder. You could use the feeder on top of the frames and surround it with empty box(es).

Good luck with your adventure - I'm glad to hear you have an electric fence in your plans.


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## Zonker

BC is ASSUME. Had a client buy Kitsault so I got to briefly visit and it was just breath takingly beautiful. The problem you're going to have is the amount of rain and the depth of snow. A lot of folks that far north bring the hives in to the cellar for the winter. Its going to be tough moving a full hive by boat. I'd make the Warre lid with an extra big soffit (roof edge) to help keep the hive dry. I don't think you'll find any swarms, but if there are exterminators in the area, call them. They are called to remove swarms. They'd know if there are wild bees around and might be willing to call you when they are called.


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## Bubbles

To Valerieanne,

I'm fairly new with raising bees in a Warre hive (got the bees last Spring). Still, I did some modifications to help my bees along. One is putting a top feeder and added an entrance hole on the side of that feeder. http://www.keepandshare.com/photo/455093/2013-mobeek-s-honeybees?fv=y&ifr= And instead of using the Warre roof, I made a flat roof with deep sides to protect the top entrance. So far, my bees are still alive but winter is not over yet either. 

You might also want to go to www.warre.biobees.com to learn more about the Warre hive and some modifications tried through the years. I'm actually going to try adding circular entrance reducers for my next set of hives. 

Good luck with the fun project.


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## tommysnare

i understand ur concerns for the size. but you could actually take KTBH apart and transport it. all you would need then is the parts and a cordless drill  i personally think it would do better in the givin situation and let's be honest....a KTBH on an island is way cooler than a Lang. no chems of course


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## Scott Klein

I see some great feedback here, and we know a bit about your location, where you hope to get bees, as well as the likely equipment (either top bar or warre).

I'm familiar with top bar beekeeping, but have not yet propagated the the top bar that I have here, so FWIW. One of the biggest concerns about a horizontal hive such as a top bar is that bees tend to cluster and move vertically through the winter to consume honey stores, without breaking cluster (huddle). However, bees do create holes in the comb to move from comb to comb as a group called 'communication holes', they just don't always maintain these holes in ideal spots for moving frame to frame. Some beekeepers cut a small 1"-2" hole in the center of each frame to allow the cluster to move laterally, without breaking cluster. in colder, wetter climates I'm not sure top bar is ideal. It's also NOT a multi-part hive system (other than the frames) so you have to decide how large (how many frames) the top bar will need to be.... permanently.

Warre does sound like a good match, but the top entrance modification is worth serious consideration. I have a propagated Warre and is doing great, I simply made the mistake of getting the octagonal design. I highly suggest a square or rectangular so that you can more easily manage and inspect down the road.


Going forward, it will be of great interest to others if you can take some good notes (keep a diary).

Some of the basic observations you can document are:

• Observations about the bees you procure (general appearance of the bees). Are they light or dark, defensive or gentle, not overlooking your intuitive perception of the beekeeper, apiary and other bees and hives there (even if you have limited experience).

• Including a bit about the transport and install is also useful..., as soon as possible after you get the job done.

• Weather conditions are also extremely useful to document at key times such as install and subsequent visits to the colony or colonies.


IMO, beekeeping is an art more than a science because there are so many variables. It's nearly impossible to create and control conditions that give us 100% certainty about much beyond the very basics (hence the isolated island virtues). Anticipating future needs of your colony AND the weather conditions/timing to provide support/management is not rote. 

So don't hesitate to ask many questions and then make the decisions that feel right to you.


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## Bubbles

Addendum: Some other modification done on my Warre hive; I removed the quilt and left the top feeder in its place to act as condensation collector also. If you're going to feed with sugar syrup (I add Honeybee healthy as supplement to the syrup) place some kind of floating device to keep the bees from drowning. I used a waffle shelf liner. Just make sure the bees don't propilize it to the bottom of the feeder once the feeder is dry.

Other recommendations: since this is the very first hive you are planning to start, I think it would be safer to start it in your back yard. It would allow you to check on them more often in the beginning plus you can react and get help faster in case of emergencies like getting stung and having a severe allergic reaction. I understand that Warre hives are supposed to be lower maintenance but I ended up feeding my bees at least once every week to two weeks until they have built combs in 3 boxes. I got this recommendation from thewarrestore.com and a smart beekeeper in Biobees.com. But that's just a suggestion. There are so much to consider but it is better to be prepared before any problems come.

http://m.thewarrestore.com/site/mob...sig_time=1362074896480&fb_sig_network=fw#2330


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## valerieanne

Wow - great input, thank you! The biobees warre modification page was a fantastic resource, "Bubbles". No way I can put a hive in the backyard though. Bears are everywhere, and it would be unethical/dangerous to bait them in this way. I figure, if they want to take a swim out to the island and get zapped - at least there is no association with human activities on this side. We will also get insurance and a couple of epi-pens, as we are so far from medical care. Just in case.

The plan is to pick up bees from a beekeeper 1.5 hrs out, after ice-out. That way we don't have to push through rotten ice. That will be around May 1. We'll have to go out twice daily to check/feed at first, then slowly wean the girls until most checks are from the porch with binoculars. 

I'm lost on the hive design. The more I read, the worse it gets. A top entrance is absolutely critical - so much snow! Small, light, able to harvest small amounts of honey at a time are also critical. Daughter wants a window. Foundationless, yes. Frames - negotiable. Maintenance, relatively low-key. I got an email from someone recommending all 8-frame shallows - just MORE of them. I'm giving us one month to examine all the options, two weeks to build, get them out and leveled just before ice-out, move in the girls just after ice-out, fence it all in.

Daughter is already making a list of all the people she wants to mail honey-straws to. THAT is where this whole thing started - an ag. fair and Honey Straws.


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## Mbeck

Your a good parent and it sounds like a wonderful adventure!

I can't offer much advice but I do think frames are a good idea. You want a hive that is easy to look through without working the bees up. It's easy to pull frames and share all the things in a hive without dealing with angry bees.

Maybe you could also plan for a storage container of sorts so you can keep some of the basics out there?

I would love to see some photos


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## Scott Klein

valerieanne said:


> Daughter is already making a list of all the people she wants to mail honey-straws to. THAT is where this whole thing started - an ag. fair and Honey Straws.


“Sometimes,' said Pooh, 'the smallest things take up the most room in your heart.” 
― A.A. Milne


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## Bush_84

Let me give you a little advice from my limited warre experience. Don't expect magical things from the whole leave the bees alone and everything will go perfectly. False floor effect is real. Swarming and queenless situations are real. Varroa are real. Dead colonies are real. Starvation is real. Without your intervention your bees can succumb to these conditions and perish.

So what I have done to combat false floor effect is to take a partially drawn outer comb and put it in a nadired box. This will also help reduce swarming if you stay on top of things. I also super (I know shame shame). You will need seed combs in the supered box, which is essentially a comb or two placed in the supered box. You can also accomplish this by removing an outer comb and placing it above.

Varroa will have to be monitored and treated when needed with whatever method you prefer. 

Feed if necessary. Do not listen to all the natural hububaloo. Feed if necessary. Leave their honey that they need, but feed them if they need it. 

Just don't ignore them. I bought into the let them be garbage and just ran into troubles. Hope that helps!

One more thing to consider...Lang 8 frame mediums can get you close to a warre with less headaches and the ability to purchase equipment from suppliers. I will continue to run warres, but I am now using mostly foundationless 8 frame langs.


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## cerezha

Wow
Very interesting project and nice discussion! As usual - beesource is offering so many suggestions, difficult to choose. There is one more:
- since it is a project for 9-year old, the goal must be (if possible) to succeed in short period of time with limited resources, which IS difficult, so everything should be simple. 
- as a beginner beekeeper, I strongly suggest two beehives. Success with one hive is very difficult. 
- I strongly suggest to keep bees near the house - search Internet and beesource - people made beautiful platforms to protect bees from the bears etc. It automatically solve bees-presence issue - from platform, they will fly high enough not to bother anybody around the house. Platform, may also function as an adventurous "tree-house" and fun to build. I am very aware of nature, but I feel small platform would not interfere so much with wildness. Crossing the waters to inspect bees sounded fun, but, I am often run a few times in my garage (truck, for others) for something bees needed right now... kayaking back and forth sounded good exercise.
- since you are beginner and limited in resources, beehive in my opinion, should be classical Lang with frames. Yes, I personally is a proponent of "natural beekeeping" and often have arguments with others. I love top bars, foundationless, my hive is a marriage of Lang and Warre... But, look - your agenda is to make sure that your daughter observed success. It is just easier to follow "classical" approach and leave top bars, foundationless etc for later - when bees established, next year. Also - much more support may be found for classical Lang. Warre is great, but as many stated already, I do not think that Ware-approach is designed for top entrance. Also, I was under impression that Warre's boxes are heavy. Langs boxes are heavy too, but frames may be removed and transported separately. The advantage of the frame - it would protect the honeycomb.

Good luck with your project, keep us posted and pictures, pictures!!!!


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## valerieanne

Thank you for all the encouragement, the details are a bit overwhelming. I'm trying to crash course on this, so I can guide my daughter in her choices. Ultimately, it's her show. Great practical advice to keep a tool/supply tote out there! Made me think that we'll get a locking float tote to transport harvest (just in case we leave in haste and dump the kayaks ) Orange flagging on the tools, another good one.

Dan, I hear you too. She's gonna get stung. She's gonna get frustrated. She's gonna cry. The colony could die off a few weeks in. Bears may beat us to the harvest by a mere day. All good lessons to this mom's mind. We will feed when necessary, as we're the ones stranding the poor girls out there. No chems though. We'll do all we can, but, they might just get sick and die. Lessons to be learned there as well.

The only way I'll call it a failure is if she gives up. Otherwise, it's better than a barbie dreamhouse! Plan for success. Try again, fail again, fail better. I can promise you this - they will not be ignored! This kid kisses her houseplants and keeps houseflies in teacup hospice care. No worries on the neglect side, I assure you.


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## BeeCurious

valerieanne said:


> We are planning on a Warre-ish sized hive for weight and portability issues (remember, 9 years old, kayak, and a small mom).


I would think one last time about possibly using eight frame medium Langstroth boxes... 

Good luck!


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## Scott Klein

BeeCurious said:


> I would think one last time about possibly using eight frame medium Langstroth boxes...
> 
> Good luck!


Agreed. You can still borrow techniques or modifications from other hive styles as you see fit, such as foundationless frames. Chances are that the beekeeper you get your bees from uses langstroth and probably has reasons for doing so that she will share with you.

From my experience, new beekeepers that have new equipment and install a package (shake off) or swarm don't see many pest problems in their first year, so you a little time to learn before you would need to make a decision about treating.


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## ubernerd

valerieanne said:


> Try again, fail again, fail better.


I love that sentence! Going in with that attitude should set you up well for success in the long run. Awesome philosophy. Good luck with your super cool project.


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## Bubbles

Speaking of platforms, check this out.
http://www.architizer.com/en_us/projects/view/elevator-b/50182/

Also, another link mentioned that for bear-proofing your beehive, build it on top of your house or make platforms with metal posts so bears can't climb the post.


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## valerieanne

We are going with the 8 frame Lang. Medium depth, and possibly shallow later on. As everyone suggested, this meets most of our needs, and keeps it simple for the beginner. We are going to have a top-entrance, and no foundations. A few more questions at this point:

1. We are thinking of doing both top bars and cutting down frames to half-frames. Just for curiosity's sake, to see what they prefer. Is there any problem alternating the two?

2. We have 1x6 and 2x6 Douglas fir on hand. This is _close_ to the Lang depth of 6 5/8". Is "close" good enough, if you have top bars or half-frames? I know that the inside width and length must be exact to the standard.

3. Is there any advantage to using the thicker 2 inch over the 1 inch? That would justify the added weight?

4. Queen excluder - both arguments are convincing. Does leaving it off the first year increase the colony's chances for success? Then, we can revisit it later?

We are having fun examining skyscraper beehives! You thought transporting bees via kayak was different? Daughter suggested a zipline for one of these hive stands. Sometimes it is easy saying no. We do have a large, high, rusty metal platform where a mill was standing back in the 50's. It's far back in the woods, and I've always admonished "stay away!" because the ladder is covered in large, sharp paint (probably lead) chips. I'm gonna take another look 

5. What about wind and winter protection for these "high" hives? Do they get moved down for the winter months?


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## Rader Sidetrack

Your 1x6' and 2x6" lumber is actually 5 1/2" wide. That is smaller than the height of a "Shallow" super, which is 5 11/16". I would suggest acquiring appropriate lumber to make a _standard _size medium. If you were determined to use what you have on hand, you could fabricate/glue an extension to the 6" boards such that you can make a 6 5/8" standard medium super.

I don't see any advantage for ever using 2x lumber, especially here where weight is a primary consideration. Some beeks use foamboard insulation in winter months. If you chose to doe this, it could be just tied or strapped around the box stack rather than permanently attached.

Top bars only I understand. But I don't see what you gain from the extra effort of cutting down frames to be half frames?

Most arguments in favor of an excluder revolves around keeping brood out of honey supers intended for harvest. Perhaps you should not expect to get a significant harvest the first year. An excluder is not likely to be of value the first year, IMHO.

"Cinnabar" as a placename in BC is somewhat obscure. I saw one possibility on Vancouver Island, and another in the  University of Northern BC Research Centre near Fort St James. Where are you located ... I imagine the climate at those two locations is markedly different.


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## valerieanne

Graham, we are at Canadian Zone 3 (there are differences in American vs. Canadian hardiness zones) , we are closer to a Canadian Zone 2, due to elevation. NOT Vancouver Island 

Cutting down the frames is simply for curiosity's sake.

I will re-measure our lumber. It was milled locally, so I didn't even think about it! We also have 1x8 and 2x8... I'll measure it all, see if it is workable. We could rip down the 8 inch, maybe.


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## Liberty Nut

This thread reads like the makings of a TV movie. Absolutely fascinating. Unfortunately, I have no experience to contribute to your adventure, but I am hanging on every post with interest. Come spring, I hope to start with my first two hives, and I thoroughly relate to the information overload regarding all the options available and deciding which best applies to my circumstances, less the bears and other "minutia" :scratch:

Some forty-odd years ago I travelled to Bowron Lake Provincial Park on a canoeing trip with my father, uncle, brothers and cousins. Absolutely stunning scenery. The drive out from Quesnel to the park left us wondering if we had missed a serious turn, though.


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## Cris

Ok, I've gotta chime it too:

I have a top-bar in my backyard. The fences provide good wind shelter, I don't worry about the local wildlife - but if I had bears I would just use electric fences, and if the hive is against one wall of the house you need only fence three sides. Bees have no problem living right next to our houses (if they did they wouldn't live in the walls) and they make ok neighbors - and they smell nice!


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## valerieanne

Yes, we are still waffling on our final design. Some of the other biologists that come out have been chiming in as well; it is becoming a large community collaboration. The recommendation to put it as close to the cabin as possible came up before, Cris. Daughter certainly likes the idea of keeping her bees close. I worry about the bears, and her trying to suit up everyday to pester the poor things. She has a two year old brother as well... bees, electric fencing, monkey see - monkey do:s

We keep returning to the Warre, because it seems the simplest, both in design and management. Daughter "gets" it, and we can always complicate things later on (more hives, more designs, more locations). Don't give up on us - we will definitely post photos once we figure out what we are doing! This thread, and stalking a few others, have really helped us. Honestly, I had no idea this subculture existed. It's like the first time I went to a Star Trek convention... like coming home


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## Cris

The 2y/o will get zapped once by the fence and then he'll learn (just like I did - got nailed once). As for her... get a hive with an observation window (also what I did) so everyone can indulge their curiosity with overly annoying the bees. If you _do_ have a hive that's unncesarily aggressive then re-queen and the problem will usually resolve itself.


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## Bubbles

The view window is a great idea. And it's not really that hard to install. I used plexiglass. And with my husband's guidance, I was able to drill holes into it to screw it onto the hive box. Just make sure you start out with drill bits that make very small holes and use slightly bigger and bigger drill bits till you get the desired hole. And make the hole slightly bigger than the screw so the screw doesn't crack the plexiglass when you screw it in.

Some beeks recommend using glass though cause you could scratch the plexiglass when you have to scrape off the anchored combs on it when it's time to harvest. Unless of course you use frames or half-frames.


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## BernhardHeuvel




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## BernhardHeuvel




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## BernhardHeuvel

I nadired on Sunday - not too late, I'd say. First heavy nectar flow!

What is she looking for?









Like a bear!









Someone at home?









*Nectar!*


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## BernhardHeuvel

So what I was trying to show is, that your daughter will never see/observe those intimate insights into a beehive with a frame hive. 

In a Warré without frames the bees attach combs right to window, allowing full insights without to have to open the hive. You do not open the hive, just the window. With frames you see just the side bars of the frames. 

I don't argue about 8/10 frame langs being a good and similiar beekeeping tool, no doubt about it. But from an observation point of view, there is nothing better than a fixed comb hive with windows. Bee TV.

Bernhard


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## valerieanne

Bernhard, apparently a picture is worth a thousand words. Daughter was chanting, "Win.Dow.Win.Dow", as we scrolled through. Here we are:

Warre. Windows. Top bars and half-frames, adjusted to suit the preferences of our bees. Depth will be short by 9/32", out of sheer laziness and convenience. Pine, due to weight. If we are feeling very ambitious, and our bee supplier can shake off a second package, we will build a second from Douglas fir. Still don't know if they will end up on the island, the old mill stand, or tucked up against the cabin. Still don't know about top vs bottom entrance.

We almost went with the 8 frame medium Langs. They DO make the most sense, all around, for the honey-focused keeper. Truthfully, this kiddo is more bee-focused than honey-focused. Although, honey sticks would be great 

Construction starts this Sunday. When you see photos of Daughter in her purple bee suit, I know that white makes it easier to see the bees. Sometimes, you just gotta support a girl's desire to follow her bliss. Even if you know she's gonna get stung at some point.


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## BernhardHeuvel

No need to get stung as calmness and peacefulness can be breed pretty easy. Do get calm bees from a breeder who cares about it.

Put the hive near the house, since it allows quick glances and observations. Actually I do have two observation hives in my attic.















































It is priceless to live with the bees close by. I actually have them above my sleeping room and can hear them at night. They do sort of humm and sing different songs throughout the days and season. In summer I meet the queen at 11 pm when she appears at the window every day at the same time. Bees do have a inner clock and live according to it.

So get the bees as close as the bears allow. You mightuse an electric fence or such, don't have bears over here so can't really help with that.

Use a small entrance at the bottom and another one close to the top. Bees do not care much, except in winter and spring when moisture has to get out of the hive. Just drill a hole into the boxes at the bottom and top. Or use an eke with a small entrance.

If you manipulate the hive by continued supering at Springtime, you get a lot of honey. If you have strong flows throughout the year,you don't need a queen excluder, but I use one because we have a short and strong flow right at the beginning of the season and that is it. Nothing coming in after the first flow. (Have to move hives.)


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## BernhardHeuvel

Some impressions about harvesting honey in a Warré hive.


At 11am most of the bees are goneby use of a beeescape board. Except some of the bees.


















Always wear protection when working with bees. Here my work boots. :lol: 









Prepared the kitchen by putting all stuff out, that doesn't belong to honey harvest. Cleaned and installed the honey press. 









Check the relative humidity, so the honey doesn't suck in the air's water content. 









Temperature.


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## BernhardHeuvel

With a long bread knife loose the sides of the comb.









Best is a bowl that is 300mm x 300mm in square, put two bars on top and on that the hive box. After loosing the sides flip over the box, and from above cut diagonally under the topbar. From both sides. The comb comes off and drops into the bowl. 

Here I simply made a cut in the center of the comb and let the half of the comb drop in a round bowl. 









Dice the comb with the knife.









Into the press. 









It would be better too use a pressing bag, so you can remove the wax rests in one go. 









Looks tasty....









I got to taste it. :wink:


















Press with care. Slow. Pull until you feel a resistance. Wait. Pull again. This way it works pretty good. Takes 10 minutes.


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## BernhardHeuvel

If you don't use a pressing bag, you got to scratch the wax rests out of the pressing cage.









The residues of the pressing I put into a pan. I slowly heat that pan with wx and honey, making it both liquid. Then I let it cool down slowly so wax and honey seperates. The honey I use for mead making. Wax goes into candles.









After waiting some time - so the wax floats up - I start filling the jars. 









The honey folds into the glass jar.. 









After some time you are in a state of meditation. :lol: 









Bernhard


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## BernhardHeuvel

Concerning top- and bottom entrances I found the results shown here most useful: http://www.capabees.com/main/files/pdf/winteringpdf.pdf

See the boxes on the right side of the documents.

Bernhard


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## valerieanne

Wow, thanks Bernhard! There appears to be a shallower box, below your two upper observation boxes - what is the purpose of this? Is this where your excluder is located? And, no quilt? Due to higher temperature in attic? Do you know the approximate weight of a full Warre box?

We are expecting Seeley's book in any day (thank you for the suggestion, Scott) and are using David Heaf's instructions on construction. I've been rifling through other threads for details on hardware/carpentry. We have some very old windows stored away, they will be donating panes of glass. Many people have commented on the reduced visibility of plexi over time, as it gets scratched.

Top vs. bottom: it looks like (from the doc you linked to, Bernhard) they prefer high hives, with bottom entrances. This makes an attic hive perfect! However, we don't have an attic. Still lots to figure out regarding location and maintenance, but we are excited to get started!


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## KMP

Hi Bernhard,

> It would be better too use a pressing bag, so you can remove the wax rests in one go. 

Okay, I've made a note of that! Two more questions -- do you use any filter screens at all? After warming the wax/honey remains, could I feed this honey back to the bees? (Or has it been heated too much by this point?)

Schöne Grüße! (Best wishes)

Kevin


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## BernhardHeuvel

valerieanne said:


> ...shallower box, below your two upper observation boxes - what is the purpose of this? Is this where your excluder is located? And, no quilt?


This is my multiple function quilt used as a bee escape.  To clear out the supers.



valerieanne said:


> ......approximate weight of a full Warre box?


18 kg/40 lbs. More or less. Use light wood. Like weymouth. I used it preferably.


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## BernhardHeuvel

KMP said:


> ...do you use any filter screens at all?


Depends. I like wax and all in my honey. Sometimes I fill the honey straight into the jar. All the wax floating on top of the honey, being a wax lid keeping all the volatile stuff inside the honey. I think this is pure gold. But most other beekeepers do not like this, mostly they do not know this, so they don't like it. Most friends love it and ask for it. 

However I filter some of the honey sometimes for people who want this. You could use a standard double sieve sitting on top of the bucket below the press. I did and works. Let sit and scrape off the wax the day after. Pretty clean. One could filter it even more. But what's the point? 



KMP said:


> ...After warming the wax/honey remains, could I feed this honey back to the bees?


No, wouldn't. Since it is heated it has HMF which can be poisonous to bees in certain amounts. I dilute it in water when making mead so the content of HMF is lowered per litre. If you want to feed i, simply feed back the wax and honey. No need to seperate from wax beforehand. Bees clean up the honey you can take away the wax then. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroxymethylfurfural


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## cerezha

BernhardHeuvel said:


> ...The residues of the pressing I put into a pan. I slowly heat that pan with wx and honey, making it both liquid. Then I let it cool down slowly so wax and honey seperates. The honey I use for mead making. Wax goes into candles....


Hi Bernhard, very nice show! Thanks. I do not have such nice press, so I crush-and-strain. I have a comment to your technique - instead heating honey-wax leftovers, I just mix it with the water, let it sit for 2-3 days in open pan, mix it periodically. Than I just filter the wax and debris, moved liquid into the bottle, place air-lock and it is beginning of the mead. In this approach, some elements are extracted from the wax, thus, mead have strong "beehive" taste - some people do not like it.


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## Oldtimer

valerieanne said:


> We are going chem free - kids and chems don't mix.


Chem free is what every new beekeeper wants to do. But if it is your daughter you are concerned about, most the available chems used in hives are not a risk to her.

Going chem free is not just simply, not using them, although for a few, that works. Your daughter would likely be more upset to find all her bees in a big dead heap. The reasons for medicating bees are the same as for medicating any other livestock or even ourselves, sometimes it's necessary.

Your call though, just saying this incase you like many people starting, think you just don't use chems, and all will be fine.

And my own position on the matter? Most of my bees get chemically treated as needed for varroa control, but I have some hives that are not treated regardless, even though they die.


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## KMP

valerieanne said:


> We will feed when necessary, as we're the ones stranding the poor girls out there. No chems though. We'll do all we can, but, they might just get sick and die. Lessons to be learned there as well.


(Hmmm, I hope that you don't apply this same policy to your children -- some people who perhaps missed out on polio, etc., seem to think that child vaccinations are now a bad thing.)

I just wanted to add that there is more than one way to treat a hive for varroa (should it be necessary). Here in Germany beekeepers largely use formic and oxalic acid treatments. Both of these organic acids are naturally found in honey in small amounts. As with any "chemical" (including table salt and baking soda) that one handles, some minimal precautions are necessary.

Good luck (the bears still concern me the most),

-K


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## Barry

KMP said:


> (Hmmm, I hope that you don't apply this same policy to your children


insects = children? Really? Isn't that a bit of a reach to compare the two? I don't know of anyone that would treat the two the same way. Well, there are a couple of "fringers" that might.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTLgSqu4r3E


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## KMP

Hi Barry,

I think you misunderstood -- it was the original poster (valerieranne) who brought up the two:


> Originally Posted by valerieanne:
> We are going chem free - kids and chems don't mix.


It was my hope rather that in this case she does just the opposite of what you seem to suggest I implied -- that she _not _treat the two the same, i.e. "insects ≠ children". 

Best wishes from finally sunny Berlin

-K


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## Barry

:scratch: But she specifically said "If they are not healthy, I'll let them die (bees, not kids)"


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## Oldtimer

Thing is, a lot of people starting out SAY that, but when the bees actually DO die, it's a shattering experience for them, cos deep down they assumed it wouldn't happen.

Not taking sides, just making her aware of the possibility.


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## Barry

I agree. I'm not taking sides either. I just don't understand when _anyone_ compares humans to insects to validate any point.


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## Oldtimer

Well they are both living things. However your point is correct, anthropomorphism can be taken to extreme. 

As a humorous but true example, I can remember on another board, a guy arguing that because Polynesian people (in my country), have a higher rate of diabetes, and they also eat more refined sugar than whites, therefore you should not feed refined sugar to bees. To him it was case proven, and he just could not see why nobody else was buying it LOL!


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## cg3

What if we were comparing them to cattle or dogs?


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## Barry

That would be a step in the right direction.


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## valerieanne

Oy vay  Having fun, fellas?

Update: My daughter (who is fully vaccinated) installed her first Warre hive this weekend past. She dubbed it "Cinnamon". We installed the bees on a lovely, warm still morning. Mid-morning it turned cold, rainy and windy and has kept up that way for three days. All of the attendant bees in the queen box were dead, but her highness seemed fine. They HAVE released her, good news.

We were gifted with a lang nuc, which was a wonderful pain in the tush. We used a piece of plywood w/ the appropriate size hole, to go between the nuc box and the top of two warre boxes, which are nadired below. So far, they have no interest in moving down. I've read about cutting the frames to fit, shaking the bees and isolating the queen below w/a queen excluder, etc. Right now, we are trying patience.

Don't get your feathers all fluffed up over the medication/no-medication. We've been gifted an untreated nuc, and it would be a shame to undo all the work that the previous beek put into THAT. Just do what works best for you, and share your successes! If you have the guts, share your failures too. We can all learn from both, with gratitude.

I'll update again, successes and failures both, with photos soon. Thanks again for all the input! Daughter is totally digging the windows, and we ended up putting the hive as close as possible to our cabin. Guess who was waiting for me just outside the back door this morning? A black bear. Sheesh.


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## Bush_84

My failure has been assuming they would move down. Keep a close eye on them as my warre hives would rather swarm than move down as expected. If they are starting to look a bit congested in there I would find a way to get a comb in that lower box.


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## Bubbles

valerieanne said:


> Oy vay  Having fun, fellas?
> 
> Update: My human 9 year old (who is fully vaccinated) installed her first Warre hive this weekend past. She dubbed it "Cinnamon". We installed the bees on a lovely, warm still morning. Mid-morning it turned cold, rainy and windy and has kept up that way for three days. All of the attendant bees in the queen box were dead, but her highness seemed fine. They HAVE released her, good news.
> 
> I'll update again, successes and failures both, with photos soon. Thanks again for all the input! Daughter is totally digging the windows, and we ended up putting the hive as close as possible to our cabin. Guess who was waiting for me just outside the back door this morning? A black bear. Sheesh.



Congratulations on becoming a new beek. Sorry to hear about that black bear. Did you fence-in the hive?

With regards to getting the bees to build down, Bush_84 is right. The principle actually came from Bernhard (building a ladder). And I've applied it last year on my bees myself.

Good luck. I'll be looking forward to photos, too.


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## cerezha

Bush_84 said:


> My failure has been assuming they would move down. ...


 Well, my bees, last year did not move ether up or down - apparently, they wanted to move horizontal... I build for them a horizontal hive compatible with Lang's frames. They filled it up pretty quickly amd I decided to split them. Splitting did not work at all, but girls got deep-size vertical addition . It confuses them for a while, but now, they sorted everything out and have a massive honey storage in the upper part. Good luck with your bees! Tell your daughter, that we are all very proud of her!


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## Ravenzero

valerieanne, please post pics of your hive!


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## jadebees

It would go against the natural inclination of bees to make a top entry. They naturally make comb on the top of the cavity of a tree,or the top of a frame, first for brood, then for winter storage of honey. They work their way down, leaving filled comb overhead. As winter progresses they eat their way back upwards. Some feel this is a way to provide some insulation as well as food. Warre hives will show this nicely. I use warre nearly exclusively, it is obvious in the smaller boxes. Best of luck!


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## valerieanne

It continues to be cold, windy and wet. The colony is active during breaks in weather, foraging on alder catkins and dandelions. We hung both a wax strip and a strip of birch bark from the middle top bar, in the warre box directly under the lang nuc.

The lang nuc bottom is completely open to the top bars of the warre box below, so hopefully we see some movement downward soon. We are going to stop with all hive manipulations for a week, as long as we see activity/foraging going on. When the weather breaks again, I'll get a photo of the hive in place. Here is a photo of daughter setting it up the bottom box. She helped to build/paint/install/etc 

A photo of the base w/ entry holes, and two warre boxes with windows. Don't worry, we faced the windows the other way when we set it in place! We followed the internal dimensions exactly, but went with two inch (1.5 actual measurement) thick walls, due to our climate.


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## jadebees

Thats a good material for boxes, the thick wood. I make hives for me w/ it. They still freeze! But I'm at 7000 ftelevation. It will take a long while forr them to move down. I do moves like that in late Fall. The bees dont leave, they have no time to get a new proper home. Great pics!


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## valerieanne

Day 12, and the weather is just awful. They are foraging at every break in the rain, and coming back heavy with pollen. There was a huge spike in the number of bees coming/going around Day 9. Yesterday, daughter noticed that there are lots of drone bees hanging out on the outside of the box, and surrounding trees. They are alive, but seem displaced. Have they been kicked out? We also found what looks like drone larvae being tossed out of the bottom of the box. They have food, but are ignoring it in favour of the alder catkins/dandelions. What is going on with the drone annihilation?


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## Bubbles

Here's a link that might answer your question. Scroll down to "Drones" subsection.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesbasics.htm


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## valerieanne

Day 15. We finally got a break in the weather yesterday. Daughter has been following the bees, to observe where/what they are foraging. She's also been following them to the lake beach, and watching them get water. We saw our first mite today! We've been collecting any dead bees/brood that we find under the hive, and sure enough... two mites (also dead).

There is now a single frame with foundation in the warre box directly under the nuc, but they aren't budging. I don't know how this colony will do, but we sure are having fun watching them.


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## valerieanne

Almost one month in. They are numerous, busy, friendly little bees that will not do what we want them to do - move down. Do we stick with patience here, or is it time to rig a box above the nuc box?

Dd made a small display case for the 4H fair, identifying the different bees, stages of life cycle, a mite, and a bee w/mite attached. We also took a small piece of burr comb that fell off during an inspection. She's been journaling what they are foraging on, etc. She may not have honey by September, but it is has been a super fun project for her.


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## Oldtimer

Are there any frames in the nuc that do not have brood? If so, remove them & replace with bars from the bottom box, attach a longer strip to the top of the bars so they can hang in the nuc box. Spread the remaining combs in the nuc box & put the bars between them so the bees will build comb on them. Once the comb has brood in it, move them down and replace in the nuc with more warre bars for them to build on. Continue till job done.


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## valerieanne

Thanks, Oldtimer. It looks like there may be brood on each of the five frames. I'm not totally confident, as the comb all looks so dark. We are going to shuffle the boxes, putting the nuc between two boxes, each with a frame of foundation. Doing this today.

There are ants hanging around the hive. We don't see any in the boxes, but I am thinking of taking a few preventative measures. We are going to place cedar chips under the hive. Can we sprinkle diatomaceous earth in the chips, or will this harm the bees? The only bees I've seen on the ground have been dead ones...


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## Oldtimer

Pretty much all beehives get ants, they are just such a good environment for ants, dry, warm, and the odd rubbish thrown out that ants can scavenge for food. They will not go in areas where the bees are though, in a strong, healthy hive.

Some ant species are totally benign to the bees, and others more aggressive and will put pressure on the bees, always ready to exploit any weakness. So just observe behaviour and see if they are bothering the bees at all.

Re the brood, as a beekeeper you really need to understand what is brood, what isn't, plus the stages of the brood and if it is healthy or not. I'd suggest, if eyesight is the problem, getting some of those cheap reading glasses, and have a look in the hive, looking carefully in the cells and identifying and becoming familiar with what is brood and what isn't.

A huge amount of beekeeping revolves around what's happening with the brood, and not knowing this will greatly limit you. For example, it already has limited you, you cannot perform a basic comb switch to start moving the bees into the Warre, because you cannot identify what is brood.

I would go so far as to say that if you do not totally familiarise yourself what is brood and what isn't, and what is healthy and what isn't, it is almost a certainty that at some point you will lose the hive.


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## valerieanne

Thanks for the ant info!

Re the brood, I would call us bee-observers or bee-giners at this point, not full-fledged beekeepers. It appears (to us) that there is brood on all five frames. Again, having never done this before, we cannot say with 100% accuracy.

I would go so far as to say that even longtime keepers that are well familiarized with every aspect of beekeeping still lose hives  Thanks for the info, though!!


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## valerieanne

Dd9 put some cedar chips down below the hive bodies, and the ants are virtually gone.

And, it finally happened  They moved down into the Warre box sometime this week, and it is almost 1/2 full! We are so glad that we have the windows  I can't imagine trying to do this with a child, as newbees, and not having those windows. It took almost six full weeks for them to move down, and this was the weekend that we were going to try rotating the boxes, so the nuc would have been on the bottom.

They are foraging mostly on rose and thimbleberry, and we've spotted them as far as 1k from the hive. Now, we need to scramble and get more boxes built, as we only started with two.

Sorry for the poor quality of the photo, had to use my phone:


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## valerieanne

We had so much feedback and fantastic advice, that I want to keep this thread updated when something happens. The bees have filled two warre boxes and started on a third. There are only four in the stack...

Today we noticed bald faced hornets attacking and killing some of her bees. There are many dead/dying hornets and bees around the hive. We also observed a group of bees "balling" and killing a hornet, which was interesting. The hornets are thriving in a big way this year. Big, big way. We've already killed several nests that were located too close to equipment/living quarters. Another thread mentioned following the hornets and killing the nest - there are just so darn many of them, this doesn't seem practical. We are going to put up 1/4 inch hardware cloth on the hive opening and kill any individuals we see on the hive. One honeybee colony against hundreds of hornet nests... yikes.

Bernhard, the windows were so worth it! She is able to check in on the bees daily, and doesn't need to get dressed up to do it!

edit - the bees hate the hardware cloth, we pried it back off


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## Cris

and only today did I see my first non-bee critter, and I think it was a wasp (looked like a yellowjacket until I really got good look at the face) and it was just eating a dead bee under the hive, so I let it be.


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## BernhardHeuvel

Good to hear you enjoying the windows. It surely is a perfect way to learn something about bees. 

Winter is coming and you should begin preparations. I suggest feeding pollen patties and feed small amounts, so they finish the third box, buildup stores and produce fat winter bees. 

Think about and prepare for insulation, wind protection and how to keep them dry. A protected hive, lots of stores and healthy fatty bees is what they need now. Winters can be hard to bees and now is the time for preparations.


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## valerieanne

She had a great first season, and is planning on splitting her hive next summer (if it survives winter). She completed a workbook for kids, which was a fantastic resource:

http://www.otago.ac.nz/genetics/otago038245.pdf

She also took a beginner beekeeping course throught the local community college, and I sat in with her. Here is a page from her 'notes':









We would absolutely recommend working with the smaller Warre hives. It was a great way to focus on the basics of bee behaviour and observation, without the overwhelming equipment/manipulation issues of Langs. Then, you have the choice of keeping it simple or adding in equipment/manipulations as you gain confidence. WINDOWS = LEARNING OPPORTUNITIES. Can't emphasize that enough. Getting tucked away for winter:

View attachment 7944


Best of luck heading into winter, fellow northern hemisphere beeks. See you next year!


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## chr157y

Thank you for all the updates! I love reading about what your daughter is learning!! This is my first year as well, and have been involving my young boys (5 & 2) as much as possible. The five year old took some comb to school for show and tell, along with a replica bee toy.


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## valerieanne

Second year update: 

It overwintered with just three boxes - two of honey and one empty one, which we thought might work as a cold sink (like we have in the greenhouse). We are wondering if a black painted Warre box, nadired in fall and removed in the spring, would work as a more efficient heat sink during the day/cold sink at night? In April, we were sure we had lost them, but then the population exploded the first week of May. Just in time for the willow catkins opening on May 8. And they were off.

They survived and are thriving. We didn't treat last fall, or feed this spring. Yesterday, we had to both nadir again and super, so there are now six boxes on this hive. We are excited to see if we get lovely comb honey from the supered box! My husband is having to help with moving things around at this point, because it's getting pretty heavy. I think we will need to both harvest and nadir at least two more boxes in short order. They are building fast.

Daughter has set up a bait hive nearby with two boxes and a frame of comb she froze last fall. We couldn't find lemongrass oil locally, so we just hung a lemon grass stem near the entrance. We're taking a few short holidays this summer - the bait hive is just a small insurance policy.

She had fun over winter, making candles, lip balm... and the sacred HONEY STICKS. The heating element on the impulse sealer burned out after a few hundred sticks. She earned enough selling them to buy another one, but we don't know what to get (suggestions?). She found out that honey sticks are essentially lost leader products, but that lip balm has a nice profit margin. She also found out that she hates making candles with a mould. We are going to try mason jar and dipped candles after the next harvest. Creamed honey is also on the agenda, as is honey rock candy.

She signed on for another self-directed 4H Beekeeping Project. Right now we are building a model Warre hive from cereal boxes. She's going to take that to fair, along with an actual Warre box, honey, all her value-added apiary products (and maybe comb honey?!). An observation hive is still on the distant horizon. Someday.

She wants to build a top bar hive this fall to put out at a friend's farm. She is fascinated by the idea of running a hive with two queens - and a queen excluder in the middle. I know nothing about this, so it will be our next area of research. Onward ho.


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## Oldtimer

Wow sounds excellent.

What is your bee breed, if you know? Apologies if that's already been mentioned but don't want to read the entire thread again looking for it. :shhhh:


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## Rader Sidetrack

> The heating element on the impulse sealer burned out after a few hundred sticks. She earned enough selling them to buy another one, but we don't know what to get (suggestions?). 

I haven't used a sealer for honey sticks, but a few years ago I occasionally repaired a couple at work. Some sealers have easily replaceable heater strips - and in some cases are sold with replacement/extra heaters as part of the original purchase.

I'm not recommending any particular seller here, just illustrating the concept:
http://www.amazon.com/Impulse-Sealer-Cellophane-Bag-sealer/dp/B000UVMKO8
Note the replacement heaters included above.


Replacement heaters as a separate purchase:
http://www.amazon.com/Impulse-Seale...=1-8&keywords=impulse+sealer+wire+replacement


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## Colobee

Is it just me, or...

Virtually every post, "last edited by Barry" in a matter of seconds (minutes) ( faster than I can read, much less comprehend)

Adios, muchachos!!!


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## fruitveggirl

Your project sounds amazing!!! It's wonderful that your daughter wants to do this and that you are so supportive of her. Beekeeping needs lots of young, fresh blood if the bees are going to survive!

I hear your concerns about portability and non-intervention, and I don't want to dissuade you from a Warre if you have your heart set on that (personally, I plan to build some myself this year). However, since this is a 4H project, I thought I'd bring up a key point about Warre's design and methodology. According to him, the People's Hive should be inspected only twice a year -- in spring and in the fall. However, I think that if you're a new beekeeper, you don't really get to learn much about bees this way. Even if you have observation windows, you get a very limited view of what's going on inside the hive (and not even a spectacular view since the bees usually gunk up the window). 

The best way to learn about bees is to actually watch them up close. If you have a TBH or Lang, you will need to do more frequent inspections, but you'll get to see so much more -- eggs, larvae, bees emerging from their cells, the queen laying eggs, bees chewing down wood... all kinds of neat stuff happens in a hive. However, you won't be able to observe them with binoculars or even through a window that displays just the edge of the comb.

To be honest, I'm not very familiar with the goals of 4H other than raising livestock, but if you actually want to learn about bees and see the cool things they do, then a different hive might be better for that than a Lang. If honey is the goal, then a Warre is fine.

One other thing, Al Avitable (co-author of The Beekeeper's Handbook and Emeritus Professor of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology at UCONN) is a member of my local beekeeping club. We were chit chatting about Warres at the last meeting and he recommended 5 years of beekeeping experience before getting one because they were just more difficult to keep. I think part of the issue is that beeks don't get into the hive enough to know what is normal and abnormal behavior. So if something is wrong, they don't see it. 

Again, I don't want to dissuade you if you really want a Warre. However, I would suggest inspecting it more frequently than you originally intended. Or consider a KTBH or HTBH, which are bulky, but you only have to transport them once (and can be mostly assembled on the spot). Also, you don't actually need to open up the brood nest during inspections for a KTBH/HTBH, so even though they require frequent inspections, they are still a low-interference type of hive. Also, once installed, a horizontal hive is much lighter than dealing with full Warre boxes because you are only dealing with 5-8 lbs at a time. I have a KTBH, and my 12-yr old son is able to do all the inspection tasks by himself (under my supervision, of course). Even my 8-year old is able to handle bars of comb easily. As a beek and a mom, it's an amazing feeling when my boys do an inspection with me and express excitement and awe over what they see.

In any case, good luck with your project! I hope you keep us updated on your progress!


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## valerieanne

Oldtimer, they are carniolans (I had to ask the person who gifted them to us). They re-queened themselves sometime early last year, as we found two supersedure cups in the top box towards the end of the season.

Graham, Thank You! That is the very sealer we bought, but I didn't see the repair kit as a separate item. Totally affordable, and works reasonably well. Now, if we can just be a bit tidier about it...

Colobee, Barry was very helpful in helping me remove 'identifiers' from this thread. It took patience on his part - and I thank him very much. It was brought to my attention that I shared too much info in describing this project.

fruitveggirl, YES! We hope to add more hive types in coming years. We selected the Warre because of size, but also _because_ hive manipulations are minimized. She (and I) preferred to gain confidence by observing from a safer measure the first year  Already, we are wishing we could just start lifting frames and poking around. Baby steps.


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## Colobee

'Apologies.

Just another bout of paranoid/manic/depressive/obsessive/compulsive (typical beekeeper  ). 

Good luck. You are in good hands here.


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## valerieanne

We were too late with nadiring/supering. They swarmed this morning. Skipped the bait hive and clustered under the eaves of an outbuilding. We moved the bait hive directly under them, as they are out of reach of even our tallest ladder.

The bulk of the population seems to have stayed with the original hive? We removed the (empty) supered box from the original hive (it is now at five boxes - three full, one 3/4 full, one empty) and took one frame of mixed honey and brood (sans bees) to place in the bait box as extra incentive. Maybe the old comb from last year wasn't enticing enough. The scout bees are all over the bait box now... fingers crossed.


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## Fergus

What is the status of the bees going into spring?


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