# alternatives to smoking?



## JerseyBees (May 23, 2006)

I don`t like smoking the little Ladies. Does any one use alternative ways to calm them down?
I sprayed them with my "famous" diluted agave cactus concoction. It seemed to keep them calm, but I admit this has been done on nice warm sunny days.


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## Tia (Nov 19, 2003)

<I don`t like smoking the little Ladies> Why don't you like smoking them? They don't mind, honest. As long as you don't choke them with too much. A few light puffs just keep them in line.
<this has been done on nice warm sunny days> I never work my girls on anything but a warm sunny day. If it's grey and windy, I don't think there's much that'll keep a hive quiet while you work them.


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

I haven't heard of any other ways besides either smoke or watery syrups, but, my advice to people whom don't want to smoke them is: to smoke them. The reason is smokeing bees helps with the mites. Tobbacco or sumac is said to really help, but I think the concensus is any thing that can produce a really thick, carbon smoke will help with the mites. Its not enough to get rid of the mites, but it helps. I consider it part of an IPM strategy and don't start really smokeing them heavily till summer inspections after I've removed the honey, becuase that when the mite levels usually start getting really high.

The other advantage to smoke is it usually works well to calm them down.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I don`t like smoking the little Ladies.

Why? Humans have been doing it for at least 10,000 years for one very simple reason. It works.

> Does any one use alternative ways to calm them down?

Some use syrup and some use nothing.

>I sprayed them with my "famous" diluted agave cactus concoction. It seemed to keep them calm, but I admit this has been done on nice warm sunny days.

Water works ok.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

I have to ask why not as well. Using smoke works. Just go easy with it. Most times only a puff or two is adequate.


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## Aspera (Aug 1, 2005)

I have to agree with Sundance and Micheal. Smoking is benign, time-honor, effective and inexpensive. The best thing you can do is to overcome your adversion to smoking them. Many other practices have been tried and smoke is without equal. Having said that, every type of smoker fuel seems to have its proponents.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I have to admit on a nice sunny day working mating nucs and queen mother hives, I sometimes use no smoke at all. That said, I would always light one on a rainy, cloudy, windy day or near dark or with a lot of strong production hives. I might not use it, but I would light it.


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## SweetBettyBees (Jun 19, 2006)

While I agree that smoking is an effective way to gain entry to the hive without getting attacked, it's curious to me that the result is referred to as "calming the ladies down". 

Smoking bees doesn't calm them, it throws them into a panic because they think their house is on fire and they go fill up with honey because they don't know when they're going to eat again. They may seem calm to the keeper, but it's only because their attention has been directed elsewhere.


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## power napper (Apr 2, 2005)

The last four times that we worked our hives we did not use smoke! Surprisingly to us, no problems occurred. Now we have the smoker sitting there and it is working just in case a need arises. 
For some reason I don't like to upset my bees or cause them more work than necessary (I know, Power Napper lost it!) This year our bees seem more docile, less agressive, more tolerant than before. Maybe -guessing here- it is the fact that all are on screened bottom boards, ventilated top covers and top hive entrances. It is a joy to work with more gentle bees!


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## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

You can get away without using a smoker when
conditions are ideal, but even the most gentle
bees are bound to get a bit testy in fall, 
during dearths, just before or after thunderstorms,
and so on.

I wouldn't open up a hive without a smoker lit
any more than I would prune roses without gloves.

The use of a smoker means I can wear shorts, 
tee-shirts, and need no more than a veil for
even the nasty colonies.


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## rache (Jun 22, 2006)

my only real alternative to smoking is drinking, and i find that it's awfully hard to work the hive that way.

i tend to take sweetbettybee's point of view as well; when i see the bees all hunkered down, eating like crazy, i feel that too much smoke has been used - and i kick my husband in the shins, since he's in charge of the smoker until i figure out how to hold seventeen things at once and not drop the frame. when i smoke them myself, i don't even really puff the smoker, i just let a little waft down on them - just to get them to back up a little so i can get my fingers in there.


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

>The reason is smokeing bees helps with the mites. 

That takes a lot of smoke, way more than I use typically. Often all I do is whisper "smoke" at a hive, on a nice day. I've got one hive that's a little pecky, they get one good puff at the entrance and a whiff across the top bars.

>it throws them into a panic because they think their house is on fire

I wish I could find the person that started this anthropomorphic rumor, I'd stick a wet finger in their ear. Clearly, smoke temporarily ruins the bee's sense of smell, which is acute. It does send them down into the hive and they do tend to tank up on honey, if it's available. Exactly what they're thinking while all this is going on, if they're thinking anything at all, I don't know. I doubt they're wondering if their fire insurance is paid up. I doubt they're feeling panic, Calm and/or busy bees are less inclined to sting. Excited, disturbed, threatened bees ARE inclined to sting. I can therefore conclude that smoking causes bees to "feel" calm perhaps because they can't smell anything and hence have no idea what is going on. Nothing gets bees stinging more than a hot iritated sweaty beekeeper banging around in their hive, smoke or no smoke.


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## Hillside (Jul 12, 2004)

>"my only real alternative to smoking is drinking"

I don't have that many little glasses.


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## ScadsOBees (Oct 2, 2003)

I might prune roses without gloves, but not work the bees without smoke.

Oftentimes, just lifting the lid of the hive causes them concern, and I can smell the alarm smell that they dispel. This may have something to do with the seasons, I don't notice it so much in the summer.

If by "working the bees" you mean pulling and\or checking frames in the brood nest, and the hive is at least 2 deeps, by the time I get to the bottom deep, they aren't in a good mood, and even with smoke they get testy. I suppose I could try spraying, but that will only get the top layer, whereas smoke can permeate the hive better to calm those bees that might lower down and not immediately defensive.

-rick


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## cphilip (May 25, 2006)

I wonder if a little piece of Nictoine gum laid on the bottom board might do the trick... or a Patch up on a Fume board... 

I thought the saying was "Smoke em if you got em". Is that not a bee keeping expression?


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

chew, dip, snuff

Yesterday my smoker went out and I didn't feel like messing with it so I continued pulling some of the top boxes on some hives and moving them to weaker hives. Everything was going fine and bees were co-operative, till I simply pulled the lid off one hive and they came at me with vengence. I got about 10 stings in less than a minute through my crappy suit. After running away, I came back with some smoke and wrapped things up peacefully. What did Jim say about a lit smoker?


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

>I thought the saying was "Smoke em if you got em". Is that not a bee keeping expression?

In deed it is. Actually it come from the german saying "rauchen Sie sie oder sie WillensStich Sie" which means "smoke them or they'll sting you."

George-


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

>What did Jim say about a lit smoker?

Never prune roses without one.


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

"rauchen Sie sie oder sie WillensStich Sie" 

How did you know that?
Or are you pulling our leg?


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

Sigh. A little bit of both Michael. I don't speak German but my mother does, she helped and Babelfish did the rest. I'm sorry. I'm bored. My Mom's personal care assistant didn't show up today and my sister is having a nervous breakdown so I'm on duty.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

I smoke them good. Anything, including smoke, that interfers with the pheromones and normal communication within the hive is ok by me. Why do people comment that tabacco or sumac helps with mites? Because you are coating the bees with a foriegn smell that they want out of the hive. This kicks in grooming and hygenic behavior. And of course you see this in increased mite counts after working the hive.

Whether its sumac smoke, menthol/thymol oil soaked paper towels, or some other trigger mechanism, giving the bees a reason to clean house, clean themselves, and clean off mites is good. Of course, having good hygenic bees helps.


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## Black Creek (May 19, 2006)

i only have one hive, so i find it to be too much extra trouble to use the smoker unless i'm gonna be in there for a while. i just brush them off if they are in the way. i think i have an exceptionally calm hive of bees. so far i've seen only one bee fly directly at me and bounce off my veil. several times i've done quick checks with no suit at all. although yesterday was the bravest (dumbest) visit yet. late afternoon. no smoke, no suit, no veil, no gloves, no shirt... wearing nothing but a pair of old cut-off shorts. just slow methodical movements and they didnt seem to care that i was even there.


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## Christopher Petree (Mar 19, 2005)

It's fine as long as you let them know the risk involved with smoking (possibly let them read the Surgeon General's warning), and don't put additives, which might make the smoke more addictive...

Seriously, depending on your bees and hive size, you might be able to not use smoke. I sometimes get by without if the weather is nice and a nectar-flow is on. What about that liquid smoke? I'm not sure if the ingredients are natural. I suspect not. If the bees are gentle, much depends on how gentle you are with them.


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## Grant (Jun 12, 2004)

Back in the old days, I tried using no smoke, just slow, gentle moves on windless, sunny days. 

Result: lots of stings, even with a heavy coat and gloves, lots of bees committed suicide in defense of their home. Some even stung me through my suit.

Today, I use smoke liberally. 

Result: very few, if any, stings. Most days I wear no veil, use no gloves, utter fewer profanities, and enjoy the bees more than in the past.

If I were to open every hive, every day, I might worry more about how the smoke disrupts the hive, but since I'm not, I don't.

I wouldn't keep bees any other way, but if you choose not to use smoke, more power to you!

Grant
Jackson, MO


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## Christopher Petree (Mar 19, 2005)

I think we sometimes forget that bees are bees, despite how much we care for them. While I would not subject my bees (or myself) to noxious things like burning rubber, I couldn't imagine that smoke from cedar shavings, pine needles, or other such things would be bad for bees or humans. The smell of cedar shavings, to me, is a very pleasent smell, but I also like the smell of *most* tobacco (I might be weird). The bees don't live long enough to worry about getting lung cancer anyway (though tracheal mites have to be pretty close in bee terms).


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Humans have been using smoke to calm bees for 10,000 years or more for one simple reason. It works. I know of nothing that comes close to the efficacy of smoke when it comes to keeping bees calm.


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