# New Beek with a microscope- seeing too much?



## Pete O (Jul 13, 2013)

I tend to be perhaps too scientific in whatever I get involved with so naturally I looked at a days' deposit on a sticky board (actually a piece of 5" wide masking tape) under a stereo microscope. No mites- that was a primary concern. One dead larvae. Two tiny snails 0.050" long. The thing of concern is the high presence of what appear to be light brown rice grains made up of three segments, kind of like three balls stuck together. The three segments total about 0.024" long by 0.008" diameter (0.610mm x .203mm). One of these things was made up of 10 segments. They are not alive and at x450 show nothing but transparency. 

Does anyone know what I'm looking at? Bee poop? Poop from something nasty? Or should I just ignore it and put my microscope away?

North NJ, Alt. 385'


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## beemilk (Sep 12, 2012)

Sounds like wax moth "beans" but will not commit to that. Got a photo?


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## Pete O (Jul 13, 2013)

I've got good photos but after two hours of trying I was unable to post any photo of any size or source. I'll try again when I have more time.


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## Beelosopher (Sep 6, 2012)

I think beemilk has it. Do they look like this?


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

For me its easier to post the pics to another site, then post the link here. That way you can use a good size, & resolution.


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## Pete O (Jul 13, 2013)

Found the secret of photo posting!. Diam of unknowns is about 0.008"; but what are they?

Pete AI2V


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

I think you're looking at pollen pellets.


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## Pete O (Jul 13, 2013)

Dan-
Being a new beek I hadn't even considered something so simple; here's hoping you are correct! Put me in front of a microscope and I'll see all sorts of things of no importance. 

Tnx, Pete


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## beemilk (Sep 12, 2012)

I think my identification, wax moth droppings, is correct. Definitely not pollen pellets. I just posted another thread in the Bee Forum entitled "Pollen Pellet at 30X" (a man with a stereoscope has a different perspective on the world)


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

That's frass, if I had to guess Lepidoptera.


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## Pete O (Jul 13, 2013)

OK, lets go with the moth frass; it's a healthy hive, what should I be doing about it?

Pete


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

In a strong healthy hive you don't do anything to control moths the bees do. 
If there aren't enough bees to fill the boxes, space can be reduced.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

you don't see any wax moths crawling around? My guess is you get some first instars hatching dropping some frass and probably getting removed before you even notice them.


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## Pete O (Jul 13, 2013)

Just did a full inspection- no damage seen but perhaps 50 half inch light brown larvae squirming around eating the pollen patty that was on top of the frames. Clearly I got rid of the patty and today I'll place a new patty on top of a piece of screen and in a top feeder. Since these larvae like confined spaces I'm removing that environment with the screen. Daily inspections will follow.

Can I assume that these are not wax moths but just some other relatively harmless moth? Would it be worth a small effort to build some sort of moth trap with an ultraviolet LED to attract these moths at night?


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## cowdoc (May 15, 2011)

If you have small larvae crawling around on a protein patty, I would bet they are actually small hive beetle (SHB) larvae. There are lots of pictures online to show the difference between SHB and wax moth larvae. Basically, the SHB will have spines along the dorsum and will have 6 "feet" at one end of the larva. They use these to kind of pull themselves along to move. 

Control can go from don't worry be happy to lots of traps and chemicals. In the north with the harsh winter, they tend not to be the problem they are in the South where the ground does not freeze. 

Chris Cripps
Greenwich, NY
[email protected]


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

Wax moths love protein patties too but typically it's shb that get into them.


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## iahawk (May 19, 2009)

Almost certainly wax moth frass from your description. I did a post several years ago with photos on my blog with what I thought perhaps were droppings from roaches but the segmented ones are likely the moths.


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