# SHB DVD case: disappointed



## AvatarDad (Mar 31, 2016)

Debated putting this in TF, or even bee forum, but it ended up here because TBH is home, despite my single lang.

Late into my first summer beekeeping, the thing which concerns me most now is hive beetles. The bees are handling them, but I hate that it seems 5% of the hive is devoted to chasing them around. I kill a dozen or more in every hive in every inspection. The bees are keeping up, but I worry.

I loved Jon's SHB traps, but am still subject to first year jitters and don't relish drilling 2 or 3 big holes into the bottom of 2 filled hives in bee gear in Georgia in Summer. Yuck. I have visions of the EMTs trying to get to my heat-stroked body through a cloud of angry bees.

I bought a case of DVD cases a few years back (to rehabilitate my CD collection after several moves). Did a week long test of the DVD method using Crisco, honey, and Borax bait. (My recipe was about equal parts of all three... maybe a little less borax. It was about the consistency of cake frosting). (Couldn't not find a recipe on line... if mine is lousy, tell me please).

So, after a week?

TBH trap 1: 0
TBH trap 2: 2
TBH trap 3: 0
Lang trap: 4

None of the beetles were dead... they were all still moving. Makes me think they got inside and got confused, or they didn't eat my bait. I still smooshed a dozen beetles in each hive. Plus, the bees had propolized the traps to the bottoms of the hives, and they were beasts to get out (even after just 6 days). As I popped one loose it flew back into the hive, luckily not hitting any comb, but it was a near thing. They are not easy to remove.

So: Jon, I may be using your method before long after all. Maybe if I do it in October I won't pass out...


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## Jon Wolff (Apr 28, 2013)

AvatarDad said:


> Jon, I may be using your method before long after all. Maybe if I do it in October I won't pass out...


I feel your pain! Georgia is SHB paradise. Do you have an empty hive that you could rework at your leisure in the shade or someplace more comfortable? Or do what I did and build a new one with the feeder/pest control system and rehive a colony in it, take the old one and retro fit it, and then rehive another colony in that one so you can keep retro fitting your hives (how many hTBH's do you have?) 

This will allow you go through all your old hives at your leisure and clean them up and fill any cracks or crevices where beetles can hide. I leave no hiding places but the slots in the trap lids for the beetles to go.


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## AvatarDad (Mar 31, 2016)

I have 2 hives now, but they are both big, heavy and full. The stand gives pretty good access to the bottom board, so drilling them in place is possible, and my bees are fairly nice. I could probably do it.

I'll be building 3 or 4 more hives through winter with an eye towards spring splits, and I'll probably be able to integrate them then. My current hive design (fairly primitive) allows lots of cracks where the bottom board meets the sides, so moving all the old combs to a new home in the spring might be a good thing for several reasons.


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## Jon Wolff (Apr 28, 2013)

I didn't chamfer my bottom edges when I first built my hives, which gave the beetles places to escape the bees. Every time I opened the hives, dozens of beetles scurried for cover, so when I reworked them, I used chamfer molding to fill the gaps between the bottom edges of the wall boards and the bottom board. I also filled all gaps with propolis or a mix of wood glue and sawdust (which I got from my bandsaw).


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

Would clear silicone not work to seal the bottom crevices? Once dry, it's pretty harmless, or would the bees just try to chew and remove it? Would be an easy fix if they'd leave it alone. I'm sure someone has tried this already.


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## Jon Wolff (Apr 28, 2013)

I've not tried it, but I've read about some who've used it to seal their observation windows, so I assume it's safe.


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## AvatarDad (Mar 31, 2016)

I can be a pretty good woodworker when I want to, but I have to admit I was going as low-tech as possible with my first generation TBHs. I was just in "how do I build a hive in 2 hours for $40" mode. The wood I bought was not the most stable, and was beginning to cup as soon as i got it in my shop.

So, with a mixture of guilt and shame, I'll admit I filled the cracks in my hives with Titebond II.  Just keep pouring glue in there until it is filled. It dries non-toxic. It does make the hives impossible to take apart later. (I would never do this with a sofa table... but I figured either I would fill it with glue or they would fill it with propolis).

Seriously, a non-toxic wood-filler many woodworkers use is sawdust mixed with shellac. Totally "natural" (whatever that means) and non-toxic, it looks pretty good, and it can be sanded.


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## crmauch (Mar 3, 2016)

These are the crack-filling methods I've seen noted so far:

chamfer molding
propolis
woodglue & sawdust.
silicone?
woodglue alone
sawdust & shellac

Would beeswax be a reasonable thing to use? Mold it in your hands until warm and then work it into the crevices. Thoughts? I tried this on a swarm trap and found out the wax is even paintable. (Haven't found out what the bees think of this yet as haven't trapped any).


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## bibbster (Jun 10, 2016)

I may have a solution for you. I have a hive that is overrun with SHB and, like you, I am not prepared to drill the bottom board of my TBH to use Jon's method just yet. I stumbled across a simple trap, one that was easy enough that the kids could help make them. Unfortunately I have not been able to find the bookmark, but it was so simple that it really isn't necessary.

I went to my local Dollar Tree and bought a three pack of plastic storage bowls with lids (https://www.dollartree.com/househol...ks/500c512c512p336609/index.pro?method=search) and small storage containers in their craft section that came eight to a pack, similar to these (https://www.dollartree.com/househol...ks/500c512c512p352176/index.pro?method=search). Measure up 1/2" from the bottom of the larger bowl and draw a guide line around the circumference of the bowl with a permanent marker. Then, using a 3/16" drill bit, drill eight holes around the bowl on the line. I drilled one hole, then one opposite that, then a hole between those two, then one opposite that one. Then a hole between each of those four holes. That gets them pretty close to even all the way around, but I'm pretty sure the beetles don't care. You will need to file/trim the holes a bit as the plastic does not drill cleanly.

Once that is done, hot glue one of the mini storage containers inside the bottom center of the bowl. This will be the reservoir for the lure (recipe below).

Take your vegetable oil, lure, and traps out to your hive. Fill the lure reservoir with the lure, add about 1/4" of oil into the main bowl, place the lid on the bowl and put it into the hive. I put one near the entrance and one at the rear of the hive where the bees have been chasing them to. After one week, both bowls had a layer of dead beetles in the bottom of them. My daughter and I emptied the traps, filled them up again and we'll see what they look like next week. I'll try to remember to take pictures this time.

Small Hive Beetle Lure (also works for Wax Moths): Mix 1/2 cup Apple Cider vinegar, 1/4 cup sugar, 1 cup water, 1 ripe banana peel (cut up finely). Allow this mixture to ferment. I used an empty orange juice jug and put it outside in the hot shop for a few days. Using a jug with a lid will allow you to easily pour the lure into the traps as well as store it. This makes enough to refill the traps (if you make three) at least a dozen times.

Hope that helps!


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## crmauch (Mar 3, 2016)

Could this be the link you mentioned? Once I have bees, I plan to use this method for trapping SHB. 

Homemade SHB trap


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## bibbster (Jun 10, 2016)

That's not it, but that one will certainly work! Thanks for posting that.


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## Jon Wolff (Apr 28, 2013)

bibbster, I like that trap. It works in a similar way to mine except that they don't give the bees access to the lure. I do see more beetles in traps where they're able to lay eggs and hatch out larvae, though. Feeding larvae and beetles seem to draw more in. I wonder if holes could be made directly above the bait, giving them access to it. They will proceed to drown in the mineral oil when they want to exit. It would be an interesting experiment. In that case, the bait would need more protein for the larvae, which is why I add soybean flour. 

But I love my system, so I'm keeping it  Being able to monitor traps or feed the bees without opening the hives has spoiled me.


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## bibbster (Jun 10, 2016)

Jon Wolff said:


> bibbster, I like that trap. It works in a similar way to mine except that they don't give the bees access to the lure. I do see more beetles in traps where they're able to lay eggs and hatch out larvae, though. Feeding larvae and beetles seem to draw more in. I wonder if holes could be made directly above the bait, giving them access to it. They will proceed to drown in the mineral oil when they want to exit. It would be an interesting experiment. In that case, the bait would need more protein for the larvae, which is why I add soybean flour.
> 
> But I love my system, so I'm keeping it  Being able to monitor traps or feed the bees without opening the hives has spoiled me.


While the bees can smell the lure and oil, they cannot access it, the holes are too small.

The beetles cannot get to the lure to lay eggs and such because as soon as they enter the trap they are met with the oil 'pond', where they die. I think I prefer to kill the beetles before they have a chance to lay eggs and larvae, even though they are trapped. While I've only been using them just over a week, I did not see any beetles in the lure 'cups' inside the traps. Time will tell though. We'll see what happens this coming weekend.

I do like your traps and actually bookmarked your page to make them, but for now this seems to be working. lol


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## Jon Wolff (Apr 28, 2013)

I was reading about what makes a good lure work, and it's probable that yours is mimicking the right smells. "Larvae poop causes honey and pollen fermentation, creating slime. The scent has been described as “decaying orange”. Adult beetles are attracted by the slime scent." I believe that getting that scent right makes all the difference in a trap's effectiveness. If you have that right, which it sounds like you do, that's all that matters. The proof is in how effectively the trap eliminates the beetles. 
Eventually, though, you might find no place to put it once the bees fill the hive.


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## AvatarDad (Mar 31, 2016)

And, coming full circle back to the first post, maybe that's the problem. My "bait" was nearly odorless: Crisco and Borax, with a dash of honey. I'm sure my bait did not smell as good as the combs it was sitting under.

I might add some banana puree and give another trial, but the whole "propolized to the bottom of the hive issue" was nearly as concerning to me as the "doesn't work" issue. I don't want a DVD case permanently attached to the hive. Reaching in and trying to pop it loose with a hive tool while not shattering it and spraying borax all over the hive was tense.

I think the "tupperware" trap does share a lot of the features as Jon's, and may try that as a stop gap until I build more hives in winter.


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## bibbster (Jun 10, 2016)

You're right, Jon, once the hive fills out the bowls may become an issue. Although I guess I could leave enough space for the bowl and put it aft of the follower board. Meh, who knows, they may swarm before then. lol

AvatarDad, while neither of the traps in my hive were propolized to the bottom (maybe because of their size?), if they were to do so, the bowls are large enough you can grab them by the rim and twist them. I imagine that they would break free fairly well without any tense moments. I'd say ditch the borax and such and give this a shot. I think you'll bee pleased with how easy it is and how well it works. Then when you get ready to do Jon's jar method we can do it together.


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## Jon Wolff (Apr 28, 2013)

bibbster said:


> Then when you get ready to do Jon's jar method we can do it together.


I'll join the party. Nothing like small hive beetles to bring everybody together! Here's a dancing/fermenting banana--for the beetles, of course :banana:


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## bibbster (Jun 10, 2016)

Jon Wolff said:


> I'll join the party. Nothing like small hive beetles to bring everybody together! Here's a dancing/fermenting banana--for the beetles, of course :banana:


That's hilarious!


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

That made me actually LOL.


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