# Question about mating flight?



## A.B. (Sep 15, 2016)

G'day guys, I have colonies with new queens emerging from cells. These hives are inches apart from each other.
My question is how likely are the queens to find their way back to the right hive?
The boxes look different, one yellow one green(hive boxes) and one white(nuc box).
Is there anything I should do to further distinguish the boxes from each other eg, distance or markings?

I understand people use queen castles which are very close so I assume I'd be O.K.


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## AR Beekeeper (Sep 25, 2008)

I read a study done in the UK where the drift was 4% with the nucs 2 meters apart. The most drift was to the colony with the most workers at the entrance, so it looks like having adult population in the nucs equal will be a factor.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Really that depends on how smart is the queen.
If she has a good sense of orientation then it is not an issue.
Then again I have queens that entered the wrong hive and got balled
to death before. It is better to separate the hive entrance while they're on
the mating flights. A queen castle will have entrance in different side.


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## Juhani Lunden (Oct 3, 2013)

A.B. said:


> My question is how likely are the queens to find their way back to the right hive?


The likelyhood is over 90%, my guess.

boxes are different 
colours are different
odors are different


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

turn them N-E-S-W and have them approach from different directions. I told this to a fellow this summer - and he didn't - Later I ask how his queens did - and he didn't want to tell me. Out of about 20 all lined up in a row - 3 made it.


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## A.B. (Sep 15, 2016)

sakhoney said:


> turn them N-E-S-W and have them approach from different directions. I told this to a fellow this summer - and he didn't - Later I ask how his queens did - and he didn't want to tell me. Out of about 20 all lined up in a row - 3 made it.


Haha, too much shame! Thanks I separated them a bit today and will turn them to face different ways just for a bit of insurance.

Thanks for replying guys!


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

I know this helps - I raise a lot of queens - and help with a big operation in the spring (over 25000 queens a season)


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

I'm not that experienced compare to Sak. 
No big operation here for me to learn from. I just learn it by myself over the last 4 years.
Killed a lot of queens than I felt guilty for. This year I've learned not to by separating the
mating nucs from each other. Actually learned a lot from members suggestion and advice here. When they say I just do!


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

Beepro - your never to old to learn - I usually have time over the winter to prep all my equipment for spring splits - and I always over do it. While I have made summer splits before - I have never made this connection to the queens laying patterns. I know I did some summer nucs this year as I have them at my shop separated from all others. I will be wanting to see how there doing on this trip home.
Again that's what I like about this site - I never claim to know it all - Just enough to stay in business for 35 years. As stated - unless it just hits ya in the head sometimes - you miss a few things . The time needed to go through 300 hives - you just got to play the odds. 
Especially if you got a full time job, and making equipment on the scale I am doing right now - no rest for the wicked I guess


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## A.B. (Sep 15, 2016)

Should I just turn the hives in one go ? eg 45 or 90 degrees? 
Or should I do it gradually in smaller increments?


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## AR Beekeeper (Sep 25, 2008)

With only three colonies with virgins about to fly, and with the different size boxes along with different colors, I would not do anything. 

You can think and study about bee yard layout and then rearrange the colonies at a later date. When moving colonies of bees in a yard you can move a colony to the side about 8 to 12 inches and not confuse the bees. You can move a colony forward about 1 box length, or move to the rear 2 or 3 box lengths and not confuse the bees. 

When shifting entrances a 45 degree shift will confuse the bees for an hour, a 90 or 180 degree shift will have them confused for half a day or more.

You don't want a virgin to fly out and become confused as to where the entrance is when she returns.


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## Richard Cryberg (May 24, 2013)

I mate in five frame deep nucs. They are all lined up on pallets in a couple of strings of 15 nucs and all painted the exact same color. I do not see a bit of evidence that returning queens have any problem at all getting to the right box. I have only ever seen one instance where a queen possibly went to the wrong box. And even that case there are other explanations that are equally good.

Probably a lot different if you are using mini nucs and have hundreds of them.

Leave them along and the queens will do fine.


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

Don't mate them near heavy populations of birds and dragonflies. It does not hurt to put a red X, a blue triangle, a green square over the entrance of each box. With 3 boxes, they are unlikely to drift, but it is a good habit to get into as your apiary grows.

Michael Palmer arranges his in clover leaf patterns on the ground. 

Far more important is to give them enough bees and combs. A 4- or 5-frame nuc' *WORKS MUCH BETTER THAN* a 1- or 2-frame nuc'.


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## A.B. (Sep 15, 2016)

Thanks for the opinions guys, I'm learning more by the day.


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