# Any commercials use Russian bees?



## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

This subject came up on the biologic beekeep forum and Dan (DRUR) suggested a thread of it's own. I agree it would be interesting to pursue.

We personally do not know any commercials (or hobbyists for that matter) using them. But most of the commercials I know go into almond pollination and big bees are needed in Feb. They all have the same complaint.
They winter in too tiny a cluster and will not be pushed into early brood rearing. I have talked to brokers who say "If they pop a lid and it is dark, it will not make grade" A gross oversimplification I am sure,  but....it seems our dinks are often darker too....?

The Russian bee breeders are aware of this negative trait and are trying to breed for them to be better early pollinators. They talked about just that at the Fresno Honey Producers meeting a year ago.

In addition, with our early nectar flows here in Wisconsin, they are unsuitable honey producers in this area as well.

What say ye?
Which has a better chance of success? Breeding Russians to be good almond bees or breeding Italians to be mite resistant?
Sheri


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## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

I talked to one of the big commercial beekeepers a few years ago, asked him whether he had considered Russians. He told me they tried a few colonies in his operation, but the Russians didn't build up enough for almond pollination and shut down too quickly during any dry spell in the summer for them to get as much of a honey crop off them as they did off Italians.


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## bhfury (Nov 25, 2008)

While they are at it....maybe they can work on the swarming...robbing....foraging distance...etc. The can call it the "super bee"


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

>What say ye?
>Which has a better chance of success? Breeding Russians to be good almond bees or breeding Italians to be mite resistant?


Mite resistance is the major trait of this bee for me... medium honey producer. But only 2 hives. Also very winter hardy.


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

I am actually going to try and bring in a couple of Russians and use the Carni drones to see what I get and how they do this year. I will let you guys know. 

But to answer the question...don't know any comm. guys using Russians. Lots in these parts are moving to Carnis...Italians just won't shut down soon enough and eat all their stores BEFORE winter...the pigs.


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## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

This may not be the thread to ask this, but I'll do it anyway. (Move or delete this if I'm out of line, please.)

How big a problem is _Varroa_ for commercial beekeepers now? The impression that I've gotten from talking to the guys around here is that mites are an issue, but not necessarily any more of an issue than some of the other problems in beekeeping.


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## JSL (Sep 22, 2007)

Sheri,

This seems to be the catch 22 with Russians. My opinion is... the conservative nature of most Russians is what imparts some resistance. Such behavioral characteristics as small winter clusters, slow build up and modest use of resources to produce brood hinders Varroa development. I see such characteristics at work in many races/strains.

However, the commercial industry needs/wants a big broody colony, but this is also good for Varroa population develop.

This is why it is no easy task to develop a bee that is suitable for most of the commercial industry yet expresses some Varroa tolerance. To breed a Russian that is like an Italian would most likely sacrifice any advantage the Russians may have to offer with regard to Varroa tolerance. Again, strictly my opinion

There are some commercial operations who work with Russians, but I do not know of any that use them as their primary source of production colonies.

Joe


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Where's Kenny Reed when you need him.


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## SPRUCE BEE (Mar 14, 2009)

Maybe selling Italian queen cells in the "for sale" forum?


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## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

Kieck said:


> This may not be the thread to ask this, but I'll do it anyway. (Move or delete this if I'm out of line, please.)
> 
> How big a problem is _Varroa_ for commercial beekeepers now? The impression that I've gotten from talking to the guys around here is that mites are an issue, but not necessarily any more of an issue than some of the other problems in beekeeping.


In the 30 years of comm. beekeeping the mite has been the biggest and most costly problem that I've come across. I replace my bees every year at the cost of $30k+ a year. Out of four comm. beekeeper in NW Ohio, I am the last one since the mites came along.


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## Countryboy (Feb 15, 2009)

_We personally do not know any commercials (or hobbyists for that matter) using them._

This past spring I purchased 10 Russian packages from Hardeman in Georgia. (I don't know how Russian these so-called Russians are. I don't think Hardeman is on the Russian breeder list, but they say the packages have a Russian queen.)

From what I understand, the Russians and Carniolans are almost identical bees, with the exception that the Russians came from the Primorsky region in Russia where they coexisted with the varroa mite, yada yada yada. Overwintering clusters, spring buildup, dearth shutdown, and characteristics and behaviors are supposed to be similar between the Russians and Carnis.

Allen Dick www.honeybeeworld.com says he was one of the first commercial guys in Canada to use Carniolans. Now everyone there runs Carnis. He also did canola pollination, but that is in July, when hives had time to build up.


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

Where is Bud Dingler when you need him?


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## ACBEES (Mar 13, 2009)

From my experience with my Russians, I don't see how they could possibly work in a commercial pollination scenario. Tiny overwinter clusters, very slow build up in spring(mine won't take pollen sub either), queens shut down when no pollen coming in. My understanding of commercial pollination....got to have big colonies ready to go for each bloom. So, I don't see how Russians/pollination are a good match especially for almonds. I think the only thing they have to offer is some genetic resistance to mites that can be bred into our bee gene pool.


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## lake thompson honey (Feb 11, 2007)

i met a commercial guy at the convention who uses russians. they made 150 lbs. last year and they go to the almonds.


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## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

Maybe the trick is managing them a little differently. If you know the shortcomings, maybe you find ways to get around the problems.


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## pcelar (Oct 5, 2007)

ACBEES said:


> From my experience with my Russians, I don't see how they could possibly work in a commercial pollination scenario. Tiny overwinter clusters, very slow build up in spring(mine won't take pollen sub either), queens shut down when no pollen coming in. My understanding of commercial pollination....got to have big colonies ready to go for each bloom. So, I don't see how Russians/pollination are a good match especially for almonds. I think the only thing they have to offer is some genetic resistance to mites that can be bred into our bee gene pool.


ACBees I think these are myths! 
Couldn't be further from the truth. Last summer my hives had between 70.000 and 100.000 bees each and produced around 150lbs of honey each.
Do NOT use antibiotics or any chemicals. Only herbs and herbal meds.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

I pinched all mine.Mine were NOT a good 'almond pollination bee'-meaning if you need 8 frames of bees in Feb you are sol with Russians. Doesn't mean they wouldn't work under other conditions,as some seem to find them just fine for their operations.


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## ACBEES (Mar 13, 2009)

Pcelar, I see you are from Hamburg, NY. I lived there when i was a kid, on Walden Drive. I'm familiar with the winters in N.Y., lake effect snow etc. Possibly the Russians are best suited for cold climates. Maybe I have the misfortune of them not doing well in the panhandle of Texas. 

The question I have from a commercial use standpoint, how fast can they build up for Almonds and other early pollination needs? I would think since I'm in a climate that warms up earlier in the spring, they would start building up earlier. Not so from what I'm seeing with my Russians and I can't stimulate them to build up either. Right now, even though the days are warming, there is no pollen to be had anywhere. I think that is the problem. No pollen, no laying queen. It happens during the summer as well whent here is a dearth of pollen. But, they won't touch pollen sub either. Just what I'm seeing with my Russians.

Any of you russian owners out there have some secret to stimulating these bees to build up early when there is no natural pollen source?


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## slickbrightspear (Jan 9, 2009)

try giving them real trapped pollen instead of substitute


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## Rob Renneker (Aug 7, 2006)

According to their website, Chris Baldwin uses Russian bees in Belvidere SD. Not sure if he goes to the Almonds or not.


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## ACBEES (Mar 13, 2009)

slickbrightspear, thought about that. Buying pollen carries the threat of disease, plus you don't know what country half of it comes from. Could trap my own, but didn't last year. Then again, all my ferals took the sub just fine and other races of bees will utilize sub. Just something peculiar I noticed about my Russians, then won't touch sub.


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## Reed Honey (Mar 3, 2005)

I was a Russian co-op member for two seasons but I purchased Russian breeders from the USDA lab for three seasons prior and would have to say I wouldnt take a russian queen now for my operation if it was given to me.. They build slow , stop as soon as there is a threat of bad weather and in my opinion are not the silver bullet for mite resistance.. From what I have seen and hear sometimes its not the heavy mite load that kills our bees its the virus that the mite is carrying so why would you want any mite load on your bees .I think we are forced to use some kind of mite control even if it is a brood cycle break or whatever other method you choose


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## slickbrightspear (Jan 9, 2009)

I am not sure it they will take it or not but if they wont use sub I would try it just to see if they would.


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## Bud Dingler (Feb 8, 2008)

Steve Coy a Russian Bee Breeder Association Member takes his Russians to Almonds. 

There's not enough of the Russian bees around for this to be a real relevant discussion. Unless you are a RBBA member its unlikely you have the drones etc to have built up the genetics to call them authentic Russians. 

There's for sure more poser Russian bees and queens out there then the real McCoy .


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## Reed Honey (Mar 3, 2005)

I have/had all the drone source breeders from the association and followed the protocal to a T and all i ended up with after three years was a loss of honey crop and income and now having to dig in and start over..


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## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

How do the other beekeepers in your area that recieved those genetics(russian) in their operation feel about it? I'm not posting this for arguement, I'm just curious.


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## JBJ (Jan 27, 2005)

We let ours hybridize with our best stock and then propagated the best overwintering producers. With proper fall and January stimulation/care they can brood as fast as any Italian if they feel the flow is on. The trick is to cue them early before the bees are needed.


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

<<<There's not enough of the Russian bees around for this to be a real relevant discussion>>>
I think the discussion is relevant because Kim Flottom is encouraging individuals and beekeeping groups to widely adopt the Russian bee and saturate their areas with Russian genetics, while pressuring all beekeepers in the area, commercial or otherwise, to do likewise. If someone is trying to force feed me genetics, I'd like to know a little bit about them.
Since Varroa came ashore on the continent, any discussion about a potentially mite resistant bee is relevant, to a lot of people. And if the genetics were seen to be beneficial enough to enough beekeepers, there might soon be enough drones in some places to make a difference. The problem seems to be that, with only a couple of exceptions, no one thinks these bees are good for much commercially. For our operation and location, and many others it would seem, I guess it comes down to one thing. What's the point of a mite resistant bee if they don't make honey and can't pollinate almonds.

So, I would like to hear from some of the exceptions.
For those reporting large honey crops, when is the flow? Is it later, giving those tiny clusters time to build? OK so they explode in the spring, still when they start off small they need more time to get big, right? Are these mid-late summer crops being working?
For those of you taking them into almonds, what kind of stimulation does one need to get them ready for almonds? I've heard from a lot of people that they just won't turn on, but interbred with enough Italian blood in them...?. In a normal Wisconsin fall I would think they would need a _lot_ of stimulation. (As cold and dearthy as Wisconsin and most of the upper midwest was last year, I think they would have needed a lot of stimulation just to keep going all summer). JBJ, exactly what is "Proper fall and January stimulation/care" when it comes to Russians? If it is similar to Italians i don't understand all the complaints I hear. 
Sheri


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## JBJ (Jan 27, 2005)

Obviously the basic "best management practices" as far as disease control & proper nutrition go, but beyond that perhaps our success is the hybridization and propagating from families that easily make pollination grade by Feb as well as our other criteria. Plenty of the usual stimulation ie sub etc in late Dec/early Jan. The trick is that they are very attune to the flow and will curtail brood rearing when incoming resources wane no matter what time of year it is. A great survival tactic for harsh conditions in more volatile flow areas. Steady protein stimulation will keep them brooding until the flows, just make sure to keep the brood nest open (checker board and super) once they get going, they can get to swarm strength alarmingly fast. Our main flow is April through June with a severe dearth in July and not a whole lot in August. Our bees have hybridized so I do not really know how Russian they are until we get our results back from the diversity study at the U of Arkansas. 

It has been my experience that most of the large Southern producers who do not like Russians are usually are in the shake bee business and have stated that the yields in lbs of bees are lower. 

The old idiom that all beekeeping is local applies, but around here, even when we likely had more pure Russians we were able to equal or exceed honey yield of most other varieties we were running at the time. The thing I like most about them is that they are almost always heavy at the end of December wintering here in Oregon compared to crazy broody Italians that do not seem to know it is winter and can get pretty scary light heating a massive brood nest throughout the winter. I also feel the smaller winter brood area reduces the number of cells available for Varroa to reproduce in. Whether one likes them or not may depend on ones particular goals, but I have been able to work with them and their hybrids to pollinate almonds, pears, make queens, and make honey.


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## Reed Honey (Mar 3, 2005)

JBJ, Im not picking on ya but didnt you tell me the last time we spoke that you had to buy bees to stock your equipment?? If this is the case im not seeing your point about how Russians can fit a commercial program and be effective??


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Now... now... Boys.


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## pcelar (Oct 5, 2007)

ACBEES said:


> Pcelar, I see you are from Hamburg, NY. I lived there when i was a kid, on Walden Drive. I'm familiar with the winters in N.Y., lake effect snow etc. Possibly the Russians are best suited for cold climates. Maybe I have the misfortune of them not doing well in the panhandle of Texas.
> 
> The question I have from a commercial use standpoint, how fast can they build up for Almonds and other early pollination needs? I would think since I'm in a climate that warms up earlier in the spring, they would start building up earlier. Not so from what I'm seeing with my Russians and I can't stimulate them to build up either. Right now, even though the days are warming, there is no pollen to be had anywhere. I think that is the problem. No pollen, no laying queen. It happens during the summer as well whent here is a dearth of pollen. But, they won't touch pollen sub either. Just what I'm seeing with my Russians.
> 
> Any of you russian owners out there have some secret to stimulating these bees to build up early when there is no natural pollen source?


Greetings ACBEES! Nice talking to you. I do not know anything about almond pollination. I was talking from WNY prospective.  All the best ACBEES.


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## JBJ (Jan 27, 2005)

"Im not picking on ya but didnt you tell me the last time we spoke that you had to buy bees to stock your equipment?? " Reed H

That is correct. Our core group of overwintered pollinators is usually three or four hundred hives in a decent year. The reason we buy bulk bees or brood after the almonds is that there are limits to what one can split or shake from that amount of bees. For example we usually sell three or four hundred deep nucs, plus we have 2250 mating nuc units to fill, not minis either. They are three-way westerns and if starting with shakes we would need close to 1,500 lbs of bees to stock 750 three-ways to receive cells. These two events occur almost simultaneously. I have not yet figured out to do all that off of three hundred hives between almonds and pears; however I still have a lot to learn. This may be a different story if my breeding goals were different. 

You actually bring up a very salient point to me and is the main reason we have substantially raised our prices this year. We are preparing to produce the bees we need and some for expansion "in house" for 2011. We let the queens run in for 6 weeks instead of 3 in a couple mating yards as an experiment last season and lo and behold nearly all of the nucs needed mandatory splits to keep them out of the trees and any queen that was bunk had been superseded already. This should just about guarantee all queens shipped to be superior on average. If we can do this all queen season long this year we should have bees coming out our ears for next year and cut our overhead substantially for 2011. Split, split again, and again... If all goes well we should be able to increase production next year.

As far as commercial pollination goes with Russians and their descendants goes; most of our clients are commercial pollinators (from the North & South) and have purchased from us for the last three to five years, so to my way of thinking they must be working for the most part, but bear in mind we have only managed to ship about 5000+ queens per season the last three years. I have actually seen their bees (with my queens) in the almonds and they usually look enviably great. 

The caveat here is that I do not know how Russian our bees are until we get the results of the matrilineal DNA study I mentioned earlier.


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## Bud Dingler (Feb 8, 2008)

A russian bee as defined by the RBBA has genetics from 18 lines in the program and DNA markers that prove 90 some % authenticity. 

Unless you are a member in the program you don't have access to the drone mother sources that are exchanged between members or even the breeder stock.

Starting in 2010 Glenn Apiaries are not offering the russian as a AI breeder because the RBBA complained about all of the poser breeders undermining the RBBA program. SO theres now even less availability since few RBBA are in the business of selling bees and queens. 

Having grafted a Russian queen into your program years ago in my view does not mean very much at all. 

In addition the association releases a breeder line each year from the 18 lines so there is a lot of diversity in the program that people not in the program do not have. 

Like I said before there a way, way more poser Russians out there then the real McCoy and most of this thread is not a relevant discussion as there's but a handful of beekeepers out there that have made any serious effort to convert all or part of their operation over. 

For further insight call or email Tom Rinderer at the Baton Rouge Lab. He has set up some commercial beeks with queens in the past and to my knowledge the last time I talked to him he said not many of them had the commitment and patience to keep track of their bees and develop any depth at all to their genetics. they tossed the queens into their splits and lost track of them like any other queen you buy in spring. sorry that just is not a credible attempt to establish an apiary around the russian bees. the experiences from those folks are not relevant as to how they work then either. 

Most beekeepers commercial or not get mated queens or a breeder and inject some genetics into their operation. 

Unless you keep doing that for 5 or more years and also weed out the other lines and not bring in other genetics this is just puff and fluff talk about Russians. 

A more elementary question might be how many beekeepers have made ANY serious efforts at establishing the genetics as one poster here has indicated he spent 3 years working on the stock? 

I have access to all of the Russian stock through my friendship with 2 RBBA members. Except in some unusual situations I have had no problems getting a similar crop off those bees as non russian. 

they are a different bee and if you don't make some adjustments in your operation they are not a plug and play bee into the typical italian carni types of management and I could see where in some regions they are not the right bee. 

there is no question that you can run them in less equipment over winter, never need any AFB treatment and minimal to no feeding and treating. so there are some real world cost savings if thats fits your operation. 

lets face it almond pollination is the feedlot beekeeping sector of the industry and its a different requirement to be successful then someone wanting a stable, self reliant, stationary operation with minimal inputs of feed and treatments. 

depends what you think a bee is supposed to bee if you know what I'm saying. 

But I guess I agree with the general consensus of the thread author and don't see the Russians as a feedlot bee. The VSH stock was taken from commercial operations and has a lot of Italian and big honey producing genetics behind it. Thats the silver bullet in my view for the feedlot folks who want to move towards minimum input beekeeping.


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## JBJ (Jan 27, 2005)

"Having grafted a Russian queen into your program years ago in my view does not mean very much at all." BD

Very true. that is part of the reason I do not to claim to sell Russians or be a participator, despite getting in on the initial USDA release of Russians 10 years ago and periodic acquisition of II breeders and a few from Kirk Webster three years ago. Over the last 10 years we have much better luck with the open mated daughters with breeders selected strictly based on performance based criteria instead if pedigree. That said, I will bet when we get our DNA analysis back there will be some evidence of Russian ancestry in several of our breeders.


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## ACBEES (Mar 13, 2009)

JBJ, you made a comment about the Russian brood pattern and habit of the queen shutting down laying during a dearth. I had a thought about that. Maybe that is the mechanism by which the russians have been able to exhibit "mite resistance". Wouldn't an interruption in brood production also interrupt the varroa life cycle? If the on again/off again laying habits of a russian queen are a major factor in their mite resistance is that really going to be an asset to the pollination industry?

You get mite resistance along with other traits which are counterproductive to pollination industry needs.


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## JBJ (Jan 27, 2005)

A strategically timed curtailing of brood rearing definitely reduces the area available for mite reproduction. Good bees IMO can go through this, respond vigorously to stimulation, and make pollination grade on time.

Any stock selection is an ongoing process. Over time improvements can be made in most plant or animal breeding programs. Surely it is worth the effort to improve economically valuable traits in any line of bees. Will the Russians of 20 or 40 years from now be the same as today? Only if breeders do not try to make improvements.


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## Bud Dingler (Feb 8, 2008)

I think Tom Rinderer would say that the Russian traits are lost quickly in hybridization and that aside from the extra diversity it gives a survivor program there are no other resistance benefits from dabbling in the genetics jut becuase a full blown pure Russian line exhibits excellent mite resistance. 

This mechanism is not like VSH where some exposure to the genetics in a breeding program is beneficial to a line of bees. 

Tom is an easy guy to reach and I would encourage those serious who want to know more contact him at Baton Rouge Lab.


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## mythomane (Feb 18, 2009)

Tom gave a good talk at the last EAS about breeding and handling Russians. There should be a video somewhere. Chris Baldwin is supposedly running thousands of hives here commercially in Texas just miles from my backdoor, and offers singles for sale on his website. I would have liked to buy 50 or so and try them out. Unfortunately, after calling and emailing 10+ times over two years I gave up. I finally got a hold of him last year and he basically tried to talk me out of them and then said he didn't have any for sale anyway. All Flottum did was give the hard sell on Russians last Fall, but with the gov. experiment over whose knows where the genetics are headed or what will come of them.


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## wfarler (Jul 9, 2003)

lake thompson honey said:


> i met a commercial guy at the convention who uses russians. they made 150 lbs. last year and they go to the almonds.


what state was he from?


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## chillardbee (May 26, 2005)

alpha6 said:


> I am actually going to try and bring in a couple of Russians and use the Carni drones to see what I get and how they do this year. I will let you guys know.
> 
> But to answer the question...don't know any comm. guys using Russians. Lots in these parts are moving to Carnis...Italians just won't shut down soon enough and eat all their stores BEFORE winter...the pigs.


I received a russian queen a few years ago and replaced all the queens in my hives with her daughters to provide a good drone stock for the following year. The following year I recieved a carniolan queen that replaced all the russians. I assume that the majority of the carniolan queens had mated to the russian drones (were talking yards of 50 or more colonies). last year I reared queens from selected hives (5 hives that showed best over wintering, quick build up, good honey production, ect) and once again replaced all my queens. So now, as it stands the drones that I should have floating around this year will be a Russian X carniolan and the same for the new queens that I'll be rearing this year. So far, I'm quite impressed by the build up this year, certianly the classical carniolan fast build up, droping a pollen patty in one of these hives is like droping baking soda into vinegar, WHOOOOSH.
I'm looking forward to next year since these will truly be the bees I've been breeding for and I hope they are all I that I've been hoping they would be.


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## Velbert (Mar 19, 2006)

ACBEES said:


> JBJ, you made a comment about the Russian brood pattern and habit of the queen shutting down laying during a dearth. I had a thought about that. Maybe that is the mechanism by which the russians have been able to exhibit "mite resistance". Wouldn't an interruption in brood production also interrupt the varroa life cycle? If the on again/off again laying habits of a russian queen are a major factor in their mite resistance is that really going to be an asset to the pollination industry?
> 
> You get mite resistance along with other traits which are counterproductive to pollination industry needs.


I know that breaks in the brood cycle will reduce mite loads
i had thought about this so i tested my mini mating nuc some were being used for Italian and some Russian. I cut apistan strips in-half and placed them in the center of the 5 frame shallow mini nuc it was in July they both had there 3 rd queen for the season. Came back about an hour to hour and a half to check the Italian had 25 mites on the bottom board the Russian had 7 mites. And they all had there frames full of brood.


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## Skinner Apiaries (Sep 1, 2009)

Hey! I got a few and ya know me! 
Ironic these Russian "II" bees from glenns are 1/3 yellow. (yes they are alive, marked, and very much laying 'original' bees.) Good big hives, came through winter, even had one starve with a big cluster. Of course with the yellow, it probably involved alot of outcrossing. Propping up Italians seems like less of a gamble 



JohnK and Sheri said:


> Which has a better chance of success? Breeding Russians to be good almond bees or breeding Italians to be mite resistant?
> Sheri


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## habutti (Apr 20, 2008)

I also purchased my Russians from Glenn, they are yellow like Italians and are keeping up with my MNs and NWC, as a matter of fact they are cleaner when it comes to mite count (I do not treat by the way)


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## Bob Nelson (Feb 10, 2005)

I have heard the yellowish ones called "Rus(h)talians" by someone who sees the broad spectrum because he runs alot of them.


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## tim adams (Feb 18, 2010)

Anyone use Glenn "Yellow Russians" someplace warm like Florida?
Tim Adams


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## peacekeeperapiaries (Jun 23, 2009)

We purchased Russian queen cells from Miksa, he purchased his breeder queen from Glenn however I would not call our Russians "yellow" they are medium dark to really dark in color.


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## Bud Dingler (Feb 8, 2008)

You guys are using $150 Artificially Inseminated BReeder queens as production queens? That's crazy and not the intent of AI breeder queens. 

ARS Tom Rinderers work suggest that HYBRID russians which is what is mostly being discussed here do not have the same resistance traits as the pure Russians. 

Steve Coy is the one migratory beekeeper in the Russian Bee Breeder Association that also goes to almonds. So to answer the original question in this thread. Steve Coy may be the ONE and ONLY commercial using REAL PURE Russians.


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## Velbert (Mar 19, 2006)

A Production queen is one used to head a colony for making honey or pollination.

But when you use the I.I queen for raising Queens then it is a breeder Queen

If you had bought a pure russian Queen and raised queen from her and re queened all your colony's with her and she mates with your non Russian her off spring is only 50% of the mite resistance.

But if you requeen all your colony's and your neighbor colony's then for the next year all the drones are 100% Russians from yours and the neighbors. So If you buy another Pure Russian Breeder and raise your production Queens and they mate with the previous Russian queens DRONES minus a few non Russians because of the wild colony's,you are looking at a higher rate of mite resistant it will very according to how many wild colonies are out there. if your area is saturated with Russian drones could be as high as 80% too 90% or could be more



Bud Dingler said:


> You guys are using $150 Artificially Inseminated BReeder queens as production queens? That's crazy and not the intent of AI breeder queens.
> 
> ARS Tom Rinderers work suggest that HYBRID russians which is what is mostly being discussed here do not have the same resistance traits as the pure Russians.
> 
> Steve Coy is the one migratory beekeeper in the Russian Bee Breeder Association that also goes to almonds. So to answer the original question in this thread. Steve Coy may be the ONE and ONLY commercial using REAL PURE Russians.


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## habutti (Apr 20, 2008)

Bud Dingler said:


> You guys are using $150 Artificially Inseminated BReeder queens as production queens? That's crazy and not the intent of AI breeder queens.


I'm surely not using those queens for production, well let me put it this way, the only production those $150 queens are doing is eggs, eggs, and more eggs for the rearing of 100% pure russian queens. I cannot guarantee they will mate with 100% pure russian drones because I've not saturated the area.
I use my mutt queens for what you are referring to.


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## tim adams (Feb 18, 2010)

peacekeeperapiaries
How are the russians working for you?
Tim


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