# Just saw DWV; is there still hope? best Nov treatment in CA?



## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

The commercial or hobbyist who has a lot of hives use apivar.
The apiguard is too weak it seems. No it is not too late to treat in CA.


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

You can use MAQS without a respirator, as far as I know. (Chemical resistant gloves are needed, though.) You could use the one-pad dosing which has less risk of queen loss. Queen loss with MAQS is more of a risk with the two-pad treatment and in higher temps.

Formic acid treatment (on home-made pads or fume boards) may require a respirator - I don't know as I have only used the commercial preparation in MAQS. You may be confusing formic acid with oxalic acid _vaporization_ which does require a respirator (as well as special heated wand and power source).

As far as seeing DWV, it's never a good thing but it doesn't invariably mean your hive is utterly doomed. I would go ahead and treat immediately and see how it goes.

I had only so-so luck with Apiguard the one time I used it.

MAQS can be safely used even when you have honey supers on, and it kills varroa even under the cappings. In hives as small as yours I think the one-pad dosing work well.

I have used both the one- and the two- pad MAQS treatments during warm weather (but still under 82F ) and never lost a queen or significant brood. It will arrest the mite population effectively and quickly.

Still, my preferred treatment at the moment is OAV, but since it doesn't kill varroa under cell cappings it is less efficient when you have a lot of brood, as you probably still have in CA. I have one more round planned for around Christmas to give my bees a nearly mite-free winter, but by then they will have stopped brooding completely.

You should check out Randy Oliver's Scientific Beekeeping website for more info about MAQS, varroa and DWV. He's in CA so his info is probably spot on for you.

If you have extra MAQS (in intact, sealed, packages), you can stop its expiration by storing it frozen.

Enj.


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## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

You have many options available in warm Santa Barbara County.
ApiVar strips (Amitraz) will remove the mites. The dose-to-bee health is highest for this treatment. The strips carry virtually no danger to bees.
MAQS is still effective, weak hives are much harder to adjust the dosage. Consider cutting a single pad into a frame count appropriate size.
November brood nests are often just a small pattern on one or two frames. Hence OAV and OA Dribble both work on the phoretic mites.
I have experienced queen loss from OA- Dribble, but it is my choice of the treatments to zero out mites in the overwintered nucs. 
All the honey supers should be off the hives at this season. 

It must be clearly stated that weak or diseased November hives often do not recover however heroic the efforts made. If the hive can make it to mid-January, the spring kicks into full flow (Willow, Eucalyptus, Filaree) and the hive will build up fast enough to outrun mites and disease.

Tens of thousands of migratory hives have moved to the Santa Ynes region for the slack period before Almonds. This raises the rate of horizontal transmission of mites between hives (and robbing behavior) to inestimable levels.

Argentine ants carry a DWV -- keep them out of the hives.


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## Flyer Jim (Apr 22, 2004)

JWChesnut said:


> You have many options available in warm Santa Barbara County.
> ApiVar strips (Amitraz) will remove the mites. The dose-to-bee health is highest for this treatment. The strips carry virtually no danger to bees.
> MAQS is still effective, weak hives are much harder to adjust the dosage. Consider cutting a single pad into a frame count appropriate size.
> November brood nests are often just a small pattern on one or two frames. Hence OAV and OA Dribble both work on the phoretic mites.
> ...



One of the best post that I have seen in the last 10 or so years. :thumbsup:

O D should be very proud of such a student.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

JWChesnut,
MAQS instructions are pretty explicit not to disturb the paper or cut the pad. Any concern with cutting down to a smaller size?


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## dolphinbee (Jul 18, 2015)

Thanks, all. Ordered MAQS, but they won't arrive until Tues, so we inspected both hives yesterday (Fri) to see what's going on and to give them several days without being disturbed before the treatment (as per the instructions). The good news is that I couldn't see any bees in either hive with DWV, and most of the frames in the bottom box are COVERED in bees. They have good honey/syrup stores in the upper box (a medium--lots of bees there too) and stored honey in the outer frames of the lower deep. Not much stored pollen, but we've been giving them megabee patties about every three weeks since Sept. The bees do not seem distressed either, but honestly, I am so new that I do not have much confidence yet in my observations. 

I did not not see much capped (or open) brood on the brood frames--mostly empty cells (tho' hard to see behind all the bees!). I know that their brood-rearing slows down at this time of year, but I had thought that in my area they should still be raising brood, so I'm concerned about that. Didn't see a queen in either hive either, but I didn't pull all of the frames, and I have trouble finding the queen in any case (still very nervous about doing damage when I manipulate frames!).

Sticky boards showed way too many mites, especially in the hive where I originally saw the one bee with DWV, so no hesitation to proceed with MAQS. I will likely use the one-pad method, however, to minimize risk of queen loss. Then just do it again in several weeks. Will do some research on OAV in the meantime too. 

I've read on Beesource that some people put some HBH (how much?) on a paper towel and put it on the frames when treating with MAQS (or maybe that was with other formic acid formulations?). I've got the Mann Lake version (Pro Health), so should I do that too?


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## dolphinbee (Jul 18, 2015)

JWChesnut said:


> Tens of thousands of migratory hives have moved to the Santa Ynes region for the slack period before Almonds. This raises the rate of horizontal transmission of mites between hives (and robbing behavior) to inestimable levels.


Meant to post a question about this earlier--Is there a way to find out more specifically where the thousands of migratory hives are actually being overwintered? I assume that there are multiple locations up and down the CA coast and inland valleys, but I'm curious as to how many and how close are the ones that are nearest me. I am assuming already that they are near enough to me for their bees to find mine (have had robbing screens on since summer anyway), but I would still like to know more. I am in a rural area of the foothills (1500 ft) near the San Rafael Mountains (Figueroa Mtn, etc.). Would they be using Michael Jackson's old ranch?


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

Used Maq's in September here and had excellent results with no lost queens so I'll share what I think I did different.

Ventilation is very important. What I did is to tilt the outer covers to expose the notch in the inner cover. 

For safety I chose a day with some breeze and kept my body upwind of the hive and the box of MAQ treatments. No respirator was used. Wear glasses or goggles just to be safe.

Cover yourself up, use rubber gloves. Good luck if you choose to use MAQ's.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Yes, in your area the queens should be laying
continuously for some winter bees by now. Regardless if
you feed them patty sub and syrup or not if the hive is 
queen less now they will not last until the Spring time.
Having a laying queen will replenish the hive population in smaller
batches throughout the winter time here. So make sure they
have a queen inside. Also, make sure the brood nest is not nectar/
honey bound so that the queen will have some cells space to lay in.
Since it is still in the mid-60s it is fine to do a thorough inspection
to make sure that there is a laying queen. Every Autumn going
into the winter I make sure the hives are queen right in order to have some
Spring bees flying around. We have an extended late Fall flow here so the bees
are busy raising patches of broods and still bringing in nectar and pollen now.
Yours should be doing the same as well.


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

At this time of year there is very little brood up here, so Powdered sugar, or AO vapor works very well.
They aren't that effective when capped brood is in the hive.


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

Here's hoping the original poster is following the other DWV thread:

http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...e-lethal-one-non-lethal&p=1348783#post1348783

DWV is not something you want to see, but a bee or two with it is not a death sentence. In rare cases, if the observations in the other thread are right, it may actually protect a hive.


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