# can CCD equiptment be reused?



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Not to answer a question w/ a question, but, how do you know it was a case of CCD?

I have heard that it isn't a good idea.


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## southeastflorida (May 23, 2010)

Not sure what happened, need to do some more homework
but a seems to fit the description:

Know the Symptoms

Some early signs of CCD in cases where the colony appears to be actively collapsing:
There is an insufficient workforce to maintain the brood that is present.
The workforce seems to be made up of young adult bees.
The queen is present, appears healthy and is usually still laying eggs.
The cluster is reluctant to consume food provided by the beekeeper, such as sugar syrup and protein supplements.
Foraging populations are greatly reduced or non-existent. 

Colonies that have been affected by CCD have the following characteristics: 
The complete absence of adult bees in colonies, (in some cases the queen and a small number of survivor bees are present in the brood nest) with no or little build-up of dead bees in the colonies or at the hive entrances.
The presence of capped brood.
The presence of food stores, both honey and bee bread, which is not immediately robbed by other bees. Invasion of common hive pests such as wax moth and small hive beetle is noticeably delayed.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

way back when, if I remember correctly, they did research and did everything including irradiating the hives, put new bees in the hives and they all eventually died. If i suspect that a hive had ccd, I mark the boxes with the year and ccd ie. 8ccd in permanent marker, put nucs in them and keep all the so marked boxes together on hives. So far haven't had any die again with the same symptoms but will have a better idea in the spring.

take the part about all dying with a grain of salt, I know I read it some where with Hackenberg's bees but can't find where I read it.


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## dthompson (Feb 10, 2008)

can CCD equiptment be reused?

It depends
Does it matter unless the bees are "clean" and in a new yard?
Remember the bees can be a reservoir of infection

In my experience contamination of equipment can be a minor factor
Most contaminated: brood at time of sealing, -1, +2 days
less contaminated: dead emergants
least: empty comb

You can get empty comb if the ccd abscond happens late in the season,
but probably not in florida, I am at the other end of the warm-cold continuum

I suspect strong sunlight, or UV, is a reasonably effective method of sterilization,
but you won't get it all.

So southeastflorida maybe you can do me (and the world) a favour:

Observe the bees left, say on the front of the box, above the entrance
Are they doing anything unusual? Strange behaviour or movements?
IF yes, you can confirm by picking the most populous remenent hive,
set up a ramp as though hiving a swarm, shake 2 frames onto ramp
After 3/4 of bees have re-entered hive, watch laggards for unusual behavior
If several do the same thing, well that's a symptom

My hypothesis: bees with ccd will exhibit "rear leg symptoms"
Please confirm or deny this hypothesis

(See archives for rear leg symptoms, here and bee-l)

thanx
dave


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## southeastflorida (May 23, 2010)

No rear leg, except on one slow growth hive, queen.


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## dthompson (Feb 10, 2008)

thanks

>except on one slow growth hive, queen.
Q rubbing her abdomin?
Some hives must have survived, even done well if they are growing.

> Not sure what happened, need to do some more homework
> but a seems to fit the description:

So what % ccd (absconds)?
% good?

dave


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## southeastflorida (May 23, 2010)

5 out of 20 hives, abscond.
others 15 seem good, or excellent.
Trying to forget it and move on, 
really believe this new source of surviver genetics is the answer for me.
*Driving right now, 5 hours*, to pickup 2 nucs, and 2 queens, in Oak Hill Fl.
(will post a pic or video tomorow)
They are good people, like all I have met in this industry.
They have been thru it with disease, and survived.

This yard is doing very good, thanks to jesterbee stock, white cappings high populations, mucho bees comming and going for Spanish Needle now.


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## StevenG (Mar 27, 2009)

Nice easy chair from which to watch your bees! Doesn't look all that comfortable though. 
I bought some bees from Jester a couple years back - they've done very well.
Regards,
Steven


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## Grant (Jun 12, 2004)

I can't really answer your question. I have not seen CCD in any of my hives. Got some bad cases of PPB, however. Results seem to be the same but symptoms and causes vastly different.

I continue to reuse "gently used" old comb from dead outs with good results. I mix them into swarm traps. I'm also in the process of getting rid of the really black junk adn rotating in new foundation.

Grant
Jackson, MO


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## dthompson (Feb 10, 2008)

>5 out of 20 hives, abscond

With only 25% loss, with the other hives doing well (or at least OK)
ccd seems a bit unlikely

Perhaps Q failure? or bad VD control? (varroa destructor)

With ccd loss is often >50%

dave


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## southeastflorida (May 23, 2010)

Jester Bee was very helpful today, took the time to hand pick the nucs, and queens, this time. THis is a short vid of one of thier outyards, with electric fence for raccon control.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6xOH6Ve0lA


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

wildbranch2007 said:


> way back when, if I remember correctly, they did research and did everything including irradiating the hives, put new bees in the hives and they all eventually died.
> take the part about all dying with a grain of salt, I know I read it some where with Hackenberg's bees but can't find where I read it.


I knew I had read it some where and since i got to check on my hives the last three days and now its snowing aging had time to look around.

bee-l may 2007 week1
http://community.lsoft.com/scripts/...-L&9=A&I=-3&J=on&d=No+Match;Match;Matches&z=4

Interesting experiment is in progress in Florida by the USDA-ARS & Dave
Hackenberg.

400 hives.
100 hives in each of four category.

1. CCD dead-out untreated

2.CCD dead out brood comb irradiated

3. CCD dead out honey supers (no brood)

4.CCD dead out brood boxes fumigated as I posted with acetic acid.

All hives had new packages put in from same supplier.

Irradiated & acetic acid doing fine. ( 2 & 4)

problems in group 1 & 3 I have been told. I am really surprised of the
trouble in group 3.

A quote from Dave Hackenberg on the Bee Culture "Catch the Buzz" site

" His initial observation was that the differences between treated and
untreated colonies was day & night"

I at one point remember someone saying that the irradiated hives went a long time buy still eventually failed but can't find that.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Our person experiments mimicked David Hackenbergs, with the substitution of new equipment for the irradiated and acetic acid groups.I find his results entirely believable. Buy sone new bees, put them in ALL NEW equipment, and see how they respond. 

Roland


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

a post from randy oliver from a question on bee-l about the same subject as here started today. Personally, in California, I restocked unsterilized combs from collapsed
colonies with no apparent problem.

However, I am currently running a trial with the surviving colonies from
last year's trial in which we inoculated colonies with viruses from what
were reported as CCD hives from the year before, which then collapsed the
new colonies with CCD-like symptoms. After the trial, I homogenized and
split up the survivors, and restocked them on the combs from the deadouts,
with fresh queens. Treated half with fumagillin.

At last inspection two weeks ago, a number had died, and most of the rest
were struggling, but look like they may make it. Clearly sick, and not
wintering nearly as well as other late-season splits. Don't know how much I
can blame the combs, as the hives all received combs of brood also, which
could have transmitted an active infection of the viruses and nosema.

So no easy answer to your question based upon my experience.

However, my personal feeling is if the bees that I put on deadout combs
can't make it, tough luck for them, and I will restock until I find bees
that can! I don't accept wimpyness in my operation.

Randy Oliver

http://community.lsoft.com/scripts/wa-LSOFTDONATIONS.exe?A2=ind1102&L=BEE-L&F=&S=&P=176358


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

What part about"none of them survived CCD" do people not understand? When you repopulate the hives, NONE will survive. OK, I may be wrong, but less than 1 in 600 will survive. that is NONE in my book. There apears to be many forms of CCD. Those that have had the lesser grade , still talk that survivors can be bred from. Their tune will change when they hit "the real stuff".

Roland


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