# Cost of Medium Hive Body



## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

I am also a box builder - and can throw in on this
#1 Spruce??? that's not as cheap as pine - this is what the mann lake boxes are made from - Also these must be the select boxes - budget are cheaper than you build price

Unassembled Budget Grade Hive Bodies & Supers buying over 36 - 6.95


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## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

Right now, ML is selling "Budget" mediums at $6.95 in lots of 36. You really can't beat that price even if your wood supply is free, if you are willing to live with the knots.
http://www.mannlakeltd.com/beekeeping-supplies/product/WW-607.html

I build mediums out of Redwood dog-ear 1 x 8 fence board (current price $2.87). Redwood fenceboard makes a good lightweight medium -- not going to hold up to major trucking, but I have 10 year old boxes going strong. I have multi-hundreds of these boxes in use. I sell nucs in the 10 frame boxes -- which saves call-backs from newbees at the cost of 5 additional frames. Worth every penny.

I build with simple butt joints and drywall screws. Sometimes use a biscuit cutter to reinforce the corner joints, but mostly not these days. Some boxes have a cleat (helps reinforce the rabbet), but most of my migratory covers are not sized for the cleat. Note RW dog-ear has a true dimension of 11/16 thickness, so a bit of cheat on sizing is required or just ignored.

Many shipping brokers crate goods in 1x12 and 1x8. If you can find a broker with this crating material willing to let you scrap it out, you are golden. Avoid overseas pallets, as these are routinely treated with toxic methyl bromide as an insect killer. Pallet stamps (the letters MB) will indicate this treatment.


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

JW - I can get 8' 1X8" 3.69 a board
1X 12 X 8' 5.32 but I have to buy the whole bundle

How thick is that fence board - is it 3/4?


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## cervus (May 8, 2016)

If you are able to make box-joint hive bodies for that price, stay with it. I can't. I make shallow supers with rabbet joints, but the juniper wood was free. It I had to buy the boards AND make them, I would opt instead to purchase.


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

my boxes are cut just like a mann lake box


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## cervus (May 8, 2016)

sakhoney said:


> my boxes are cut just like a mann lake box


Hopefully I'll get back to that point soon. My shop, and all the contents, are in storage awaiting a new home to be built. Which Jig do you use?


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

built a gang saw that cuts them all with 1 pass


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## JakeDatc (Apr 19, 2010)

ive built mine from 1x8x16 for 9.50 per board rough cut pine/spruce whatever sometimes have to look through a few to find a straight cleaner one but have been happy so far. did my first batch with finger joints and my dad wonders why we were building furniture for bugs so we switched to rabbets.


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## cervus (May 8, 2016)

sakhoney said:


> built a gang saw that cuts them all with 1 pass


Sweet! Got any pics? I'd like to set the set-up.

OP, sorry for the hijack. Back to your regularly-scheduled, on-topic, discussion...


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## JoshuaW (Feb 2, 2015)

I get 1x material from the local Ace: 10.99 for 1x12x8 and 6.99 for 1x8x8. So I think it comes to $8 for a deep and $4.20 for a medium. I use glue, staples and butt joints. After I cut the box to width, I use the extra for cleat handles.

I built my first set of boxes with box joints, then went to rabbets, now to butt joints. Lots of Titebond III. The Egyptians used glue; the wood around the joint rotted out but the joint is still bonded together. Anyway.

You'll get faster and faster at putting boxes together, psm. I'd never used a table saw before I started, if that tells you anything. 

I keep a close eye on local wood prices. If I had to buy all my wood from a box store, I'd probably buy my boxes to save time cutting. 

BTW, I really like AdvanTech subflooring for tops and bottoms: I get 6 tops and 6 bottoms from one 4x8 sheet; it comes to about 2.50 each. Even with the rails the total cost is less than 5.00 each...

Enjoy!


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## aldenmiller (Mar 21, 2016)

I built everything for myself. Hive boxes, tops, bottoms, and frames.

Cost wise I know I saved money. If I add my time in I didn't save a penny.

But, I enjoyed all the time I spent building everything so that made it all worth it.

-Alden


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## psm1212 (Feb 9, 2016)

cervus said:


> Sweet! Got any pics? I'd like to set the set-up.
> 
> OP, sorry for the hijack. Back to your regularly-scheduled, on-topic, discussion...


Hey, its my thread and I want to see the pics too. Carry on.


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## psm1212 (Feb 9, 2016)

The 36 ct. budget bundle from Mann Lake seems the way to go, but I will not use that many mediums for some time. Looks like I can find some cheaper wood. Honestly, I have not shopped around for it, so I can probably get my unit costs under $7 if I get more aggressive on that front. Sounds like I am getting hosed at $9+ per 8' board. 

I am not a handyman, but I enjoy piddling in my shop with equipment, so the time is not completely wasted. I use an abbreviated box joint. I basically cut a 3" tongue out of my short sides and 3" slots out of my long sides and marry them up. I router the short tops to make a 3/8" shelf for the top bars to rest on and I have built a hand-hold jig that I cut on all four sides of my boxes. 

I wanted 1 hive this season. Got talked into 2. Then bought a nuc from someone. Then did a split when a queen cell emerged. I did not budget for 4 colonies. Just looking for ways to trim some fat. Thanks for the discussion.


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## laketrout (Mar 5, 2013)

1X8X 6 only about a inch of waste , easy to sort .


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

Do due diligence in checking alternate sources of equipment. I was going to build all new tops, bottoms, and hive bodies for 30 colonies this spring. I wanted to use cypress for durability. After pricing the lumber and getting a quote from Albert Zook, he was able to make the equipment for less than the cost of the lumber.

http://www.k4vb.com/Misc Projects/amish_built_wood_ware_available.html


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

will get photos next day or two of that box cutter


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## Shh-Boom (Mar 11, 2016)

Ohio Bee Box currently gets $8.00 for medium hive body/super - http://theohiobeeboxcompany.com/woodenware/6-58-medium-super

I'm happy with mine.


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## flyin-lowe (May 15, 2014)

I use 1x8x6 from Menards. It's worth checking around, we have 2 stores 35 miles apart and one store is 50% cheaper on lumber because they are in a different market. The cheaper store sells them for 3.69. I don't calculate my time into the cost, I'm not missing work to build them and would just be sitting on my butt anyways. Some quite time with the table saw and router, away from the family is good for the soul sometimes too.


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## tanksbees (Jun 16, 2014)

Fusion_power said:


> Do due diligence in checking alternate sources of equipment. I was going to build all new tops, bottoms, and hive bodies for 30 colonies this spring. I wanted to use cypress for durability. After pricing the lumber and getting a quote from Albert Zook, he was able to make the equipment for less than the cost of the lumber.
> 
> http://www.k4vb.com/Misc Projects/amish_built_wood_ware_available.html


Do you think he would make some custom 12 7/8" frames?


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## costigaj (Oct 28, 2015)

I've seen some Amish box builders prices under $10 per unassembled box, but you need to pickup. With shipping the cost is comparable to ML.


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

When I need a box I need a box and need it quick. I can order from a supply house and wait a week or I can build one today.
Cost is not the issue most important to me but I can build a deep for $8.32 or a medium for $3.89 TODAY and have it painted by tonight. To go to farm and fleet and buy a deep with frames and foundations will kill you.
Had to do it once. It still stings. http://www.farmandfleet.com/products/834638-little-giant-langstroth-10-frame-deep-beehive-body.html


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## lharder (Mar 21, 2015)

I make mediums out of 2 by 8. I buy bundles of cull pieces, about 50 cents Canadian a foot. Works out to about $3 a box. Just use butt joints, titebond 3 and deck screws. They hold together very well even if the glue fails. 

A little strategic planing with a power planer will result in boxes that sit almost perfectly. A board had to be extremely warped before it can't be used. With the extra thickness you have some wiggle room when putting them together. I always have a plastic frame around to make sure things fit perfectly. When stacking the extra thickness is forgiving, and probably provides some extra insulation.


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## tanksbees (Jun 16, 2014)

FYI, Medium boxes are $8 each shipped, from Mann Lake right now.

I think you guys are crazy for wanting to build these yourself for that price, but I get the sense that many who build their own equipment don't do it for cost reasons.


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

Zook is not equipped to cut frames. He would have to get some expensive equipment if he were going to make frames to order. I know all the reasons why given that I make my own frames. If I sold frames for what it costs me to make them, I'd have to get $3 each. Almost all of that is the time required to make the cuts.


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## COAL REAPER (Jun 24, 2014)

lappes has mediums for $36e, free shipping when you buy 3 or more. they also come assembled and painted and filled with assembled frames containing acorn or pierco wax coated plastic foundation. thats pretty good too when you consider assembly.


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## flyin-lowe (May 15, 2014)

tanksbees said:


> FYI, Medium boxes are $8 each shipped, from Mann Lake right now.
> 
> I think you guys are crazy for wanting to build these yourself for that price, but I get the sense that many who build their own equipment don't do it for cost reasons.


You still have to buy over $100 worth to get that price, if not they are $11.95 each. I can build two of them for that price and with my tools set up I can do them very quickly. That is definitely a good price for people who don't have the tools to build them easily.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Not counting labor I built some mediums with rabbet joints for about $3 each (wood cost). Menards had a decent sale. Of course compared to $8 and relatively meager "savings" of $100 over the build of 20 boxes... it just doesn't seem worth it. And ML boxes have nice hand holds, not cleats that I staple/glue on. 

I doubt I'll be building my own this year. In fact, I might make a drive down to an Amish guy who sells them assembled for about the same price.


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## bibbster (Jun 10, 2016)

COAL REAPER said:


> lappes has mediums for $36e, free shipping when you buy 3 or more. they also come assembled and painted and filled with assembled frames containing acorn or pierco wax coated plastic foundation. thats pretty good too when you consider assembly.


That's the route I went for my first hives. It was a no brainer when compared to buying unassembled boxes and unassembled/assembled frames. Plus their service is great too!

I do enjoy woodworking and will, at some point, make some boxes, tops, and such. Frames? I'll buy those.


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

$3.22 after rebate and before tax. 
I'm working on deeps now tho. Rabbeted corners. Made a jig so I can cut the handles in with a circular saw. $6.80 for the wood to build a deep.


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

To bad your not closer to me Aunt Betty - I buy in bulk and get wood for a deep - in pre cut blanks to size for about 4.60$ a box - then send it through the box beast


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## papa chrud (Jan 10, 2016)

I love shop built "stuff" would also like to see those pics. Atta boy sak


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## robinh (Jun 19, 2014)

Fusion_power said:


> Do due diligence in checking alternate sources of equipment. I was going to build all new tops, bottoms, and hive bodies for 30 colonies this spring. I wanted to use cypress for durability. After pricing the lumber and getting a quote from Albert Zook, he was able to make the equipment for less than the cost of the lumber.
> 
> http://www.k4vb.com/Misc Projects/amish_built_wood_ware_available.html


I also love to use cypress,been using it since the 70's,that is a great price ,cypress products really skyrocketed the last couple years,at least it has through some of the usual bee supply houses.When comparing prices, most of the cheaper ones stated, if not all ,were for spruce or pine.One can argue the use of cypress(old growth or not) but it is still an outstanding material for hives.


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

papa chrud - check out the thread box beast - my latest


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

sakhoney said:


> To bad your closer to me Aunt Betty - I buy in bulk and get wood for a deep - in pre cut blanks to size for about 4.60$ a box - then send it through the box beast


I'll get a box joint thing going eventually. Just passed up a really nice table saw that came with a special jig made by craftsman. 
Have re-thought my 300 hive sideliner goal. Got to 50 and then it got real. Maybe I'll reconsider next spring.
Building ten at a time because 100 frames and foundations is a bit pricey from my perspective. 

At first I was worried about "where am I going to sell all this honey?". Put up signs in the bee yard and word got out quick. Have customers who drive up to 10 or 15 miles to get the local honey. Quarts and gallons flying out the door. Gee whiz it's that easy.


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

I do cut my own because it's cheaper, but then again, I'm getting free wood.

On the topic of figuring your time on the cost... 

A double chop saw helps keep lengths correct and workpieces square. (IF you don't do this, spend some time checking squareness - you'll save a lot of time in the long run!) 

I point 4 lazers at the FBJ areas to make sure that there are no knots and the grain is straight. This makes for a little more waste, but zero boxes get screwed up when staples shine out the side from knots or wavy wood grain.

Yes a gang saw would be essential. Also, if you build your Finger Box Joint sled fairly square and rigid, and so that it is also a vise, you can clamp 8 parts together and align them with a framing square,then saw them all at once. 

I'd recommend a production run of long sides, then a production run of short ends over stacking them all to the last fat finger. You still have to rebate-cut the short ends, and cut your "smile handles" if you use them.

With a 25 horsepower gang saw and a 16 foot long vise-sled, I could make 100 boxes in 8 passes (that would involve 4 loading and unloadings of 100 workpieces per pass, but you'd need a 16-foot-long framing square built into the sled).

Hand-assembling FBJ boxes with Titebond III and a staple gun on a jig takes me 37-1/2 minutes each for deeps. This is using 8 bar clamps and 2 more long clamps with v-blocks to correct for assembled squareness. Obviously, this time can be greatly improved upon with an automated jig-and-clamp fixture, a gang stapler (awfully expensive option for the small amount of time savings!), and a dip tank instead of a gang brush for the glue (BIG time savings for cheap!).

My supply of free wood won't last long at that production level, so a boat and a truck dock would be in order.

Anybody want to incorporate? I'd like to start that business soon, and I have a business plan all written. Not just hive production, either. PM me if you interested. I have access to the angel investors, but am beginning to seek people for the effort.


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## huskermonster (Sep 28, 2016)

I am a nubee and handy in the shop, planning on building about 50 8 frame mediums this winter. My other hive is cypress and tungodly oiled and after one year it looks great, barely can tell it has been outside. With all the painting needs and the other maintenance issues with pine why is it used at all. I am obviously missing something! Does anybody have an idea how long oiled cypress normally? I know it's more money but I would rather spend the time to build these once.


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

Pine built boxes - dipped in wax/rosin - will last a lifetime


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## huskermonster (Sep 28, 2016)

Boy I hope they last forever, that sounds like a lot of work. Do you paint them after the waxing or can you leave them natural after that?


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

I buy em $6 a box already assembled from a local amish guy


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## sakhoney (Apr 3, 2016)

if you want them painted - you have to do it while there hot or the paint will just fall off - I have been painting them - but you can run them without if you want - just depends what the customer wants.


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## huskermonster (Sep 28, 2016)

Holly cow, I can not buy redwood for that before I put the time in it. Where abouts is that, it might be worth the drive


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