# Colony Almost Gone. Would like suggestions on what to do next



## grantsbees (May 9, 2016)

This is my first year beekeeping and I am trying to figure out what happened and what to do next. I am going to outline all the steps but I'm almost sure it's a combination of a mistake on my part and really bad luck.

*April 20th, 2016:* Installed my first package successfully in my Warre hive. 2 quart top jar feeders are in the top box (1:1 syrup). Temps in the 50's-low 60's partly sunny.

*April 28th, 2016*: The bees are doing really well. The queen has been accepted, comb is being built, and there is a nice flow of nectar and pollen. They have consumed a little more than one quart of 1:1 syrup in the 8 days. Based on some expert suggestions, if the bees are in a nectar flow and not drinking the syrup as much, it was suggested to remove it. So I did (this may have been my mistake).
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April 30, 2016:* The bees have been continuing foraging and appear to be doing well. I look at my phone and see a forecast coming up of a few days of dreary weather. It looks like there is a day or two of sun up ahead so I am only partially worried at this point.

*May 2, 2016:* We are in the beginning of a no-sun stretch, rain, and temps in the low 40s-50s for the next 6 days. YES 6 DAYS NO SUN!!!

*May 6 2016:* I notice about 40 or so dead and lethargic bees on the landing. I peek in the observation window and see maybe a few hundred bees clinging to the comb. It's too cold and rainy to intervene. I'm concerned they may be starving. I can't see the queen, but maybe she's there. I put out some caps of syrup near the entrance to see that helps.

*May 8 2016:* FINALLY in the afternoon, the weather is good and I am able to take a better look at the hive. I lift the lowest box off the bottom and expose thousands of lethargic and dead bees all blocking the entrance. So even healthier bees would not have been able to get out during that stretch. This was a very upsetting moment. To clear the entrance, I dumped them in a cardboard box and sprayed them with syrup and hoped that if they were starved, they might eat and perk up and go back to the hive. Up in the comb, There are maybe a couple dozen bees walking around. I can't see if the queen is there or not, but I've done enough interfering. I put the top jar feeder back in hopes of giving whoever is left some food. I'm not optimistic, but it's all I can do.

I would really like to hear thoughts as to might what have happened and what I should do next. Thanks!


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## photobiker (Mar 23, 2015)

Don't have a great deal of knowledge or experience but you need to be feeding them. There is no reason you can't feed a new hive all summer. If you do feed them through the summer you could switch to smaller jars or just put less in because it will develop mold with those hot summer days. At this point they have no supples to support them when they can't forage. Also they use the 1:1 to build comb with. No comb, no where to store the supplies they are bringing in.


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## grantsbees (May 9, 2016)

I installed another hive a few days back. I can promise you I will not stop feeding them after that experience. The conflicting opinions on when to stop feeding syrup is enough to make your head spin. The question now is what to do with the hive that may or may not have a queen in it and a handful of somewhat healthy bees. There is actually a some beautiful comb in that hive too. Should that colony completely die off, any suggestions on what to do with the comb?


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## tech.35058 (Jul 29, 2013)

The first question is queen less or not? ... if not many bees, it should make her easier to find. If you cannot find the queen, what about eggs or brood? A very bright flashlight like mechanics are fond of( & sometimes a magnifying glass sometimes help.
If you are still unsure
about queen status, you can transfer a comb with eggs to the weak hive. This is the conflicting part. You need to be absolutely positive you are not moving the queen from the good hive to the poor hive.some times I brush _all_ the bees off the donated comb to be sure of this. But ... you need to have enough bees in the recipien hive to cover 80% of all the comb in the hive. Transferring a comb with bees is better, if you can be sure about the queen. If the recipient hive makes queen cells, you know it is queen less, you can remove the the QC & combine with the other hive, or let them complete the queen rearing/ mating cycle. It is nice to have two colonies. If they do not mak be queen cells, assume the queen is present. The additional


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## tech.35058 (Jul 29, 2013)

Continued from previous post ...
The additional brood & bees if you xfered bees too, will boost the poor colony.
If you keep the poor colony as a separate colony protect it from hive robbers,& as others have said keep feeding until they have 2 or 3 frames of stores. Pollen would be good to, whether you buy some, or steal it from the healthy hive it gets to be a juggling act. Good luck with your bees ... CE


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## grantsbees (May 9, 2016)

Such great advice! That's a lot of messing around for a newbee like myself. The "good" hive is only a few days in. I would not want to mess with their comb building process right now. They are starting with no comb in a Warre Hive, so it's top bars only. No frames.

I highly doubt there is brood in the poor hive. That comb appears to be pristine. I will take another look to see if I see the queen.

Thanks


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## grantsbees (May 9, 2016)

*Update:* Weather has been sunny and in the 60-70 range past couple days. There appears to be some notable activity in this weak hive. Flying, entering and leaving. I'm praying for the best.


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## grantsbees (May 9, 2016)

tech.35058 said:


> The additional brood & bees if you xfered bees too, will boost the poor colony.
> If you keep the poor colony as a separate colony protect it from hive robbers,& as others have said keep feeding until they have 2 or 3 frames of stores. Pollen would be good to, whether you buy some, or steal it from the healthy hive it gets to be a juggling act. Good luck with your bees ... CE


If I can get a solid 'frame' of capped brood from the good hive, do those need nurse bees too? Or once they are capped they don't need the bee coverage of open cells?


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## tech.35058 (Jul 29, 2013)

grantsbees said:


> If I can get a solid 'frame' of capped brood from the good hive, do those need nurse bees too? Or once they are capped they don't need the bee coverage of open cells?


It is my understanding that even after the brood is capped, it still needs to be kept warm.
The major concern is that the "weaker" hive may actually be queenless, & may develop a laying worker.
One thing might be to get a queen excluder & a couple of boxes, tape the excluder to the bottom of one box, use this as a sieve to sift the bees from one comb into the other box below the excluder, then,assumng you do not find a queen, add the bar of now empty comb to the box below. while you have all the bees off that comb, examine it carefully with a strong flashlight, & maybe a magnifying glass to look for eggs. if you have multiple eggs per cell, or eggs are off center, then you possibly have a LW hive. if the eggs are on center ( google images of bee eggs to see normal, then you know you have a queen present, put the hive back together & feed them (dont forget the robbing screen).
If you do not see the queen or eggs, then you _know_ they are queenless, either get a replacement queen, get brood/eggs so they can make their own replacement, or combine with the other hive, using appropriate techniques.
If you see eggs , but are unsure if they are LW or not, you can just put the hive back together & wait. after the cells are capped, are they _all_ drones? if so handle appropriately . 
( many differing opinions as to the appropriate handling of LW hives 
Good Luck ... CE


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## grantsbees (May 9, 2016)

I'm actually seeing a few hundred capped cells. Not drone cells either.


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