# Sue bee also known as the Sioux honey assoc.......



## Ted Kretschmann (Feb 2, 2011)

Come on guys, why all the antoganism toward Sioux??? Our honey goes through the most stringent lab in the nation and thus is checked for potential problems-can you say that?? We market 38 million pounds of AMERICAN honey, sold world wide. We do import 22 million pounds of honey, mostly from Canada, Mexico, Argentina, Ukraine, India and Vietnam. I have never seen a green chinese honey drum in any of the Sioux plants. I have even asked the management on this because of questions raised right here on the forum. While I am paid in increments for my honey, I do recieve a higher price with moisture and color bonuses that the average beekeeper producing bulk by final payment. The rest of the beekeeping industry died in the state of Alabama. Because I was a Sioux member I survived. So I have no complaints. We are an AMERICAN COOP, selling mostly AMERICAN HONEYS, Keeping AMERICAN BEEKEEPERS in business and Providing AMERICANS with jobs.....I doubt the Earnie Greobs of the world can claim that..... So have fun with this thread. TED


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

*Re: Sue bee also known as the Sioux honey ass.......*

My only complaint with Sioux is that their honey is excessively heated and filtered. Granted they have to do this to market the volume of honey they handle on a yearly basis. Just my preference is to do less heating and filtering which fits in with having a few colonies as a sideline.

Glenn Fowler is still keeping bees in DeKalb county. If you look around, there are a few others still keeping beekeeping alive in the state.

DarJones


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

*Re: Sue bee also known as the Sioux honey ass.......*

Heating and filtering obviously doesn't fit in with small enterprises. Do what you have to do to stay in business. I have never seen unprocessed honey sold in super markets (thank god).


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

*Re: Sue bee also known as the Sioux honey ass.......*

>I have never seen unprocessed honey sold in super markets (thank god). 

Why is that good? Actually you can find raw honey now and again, but it's not the norm. If they did people would find out how delicious honey is... and that would be bad in what way?


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

*Re: Sue bee also known as the Sioux honey ass.......*

I spose in the same way unpasteurized milk isnt what I go to the store to buy. A safer alternative even if I have to forgo flavor?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

*Re: Sue bee also known as the Sioux honey ass.......*

Poor comparison, because there is nothing unhealthy about honey that hasn't been heated. That's why the term "pasteruization" doesn't fit w/ honey, imo. What pathogens are there in honey which a high heat treatment would address?

Just because you haven't seen Raw Honey in Grocery Stores may mean you don't frequent the right establishments. Does "Whole Foods" have Raw Honey on their shelves? Wouldn't surprise me. What about Seventh Day Adventist Grocery Stores?

Mostly you don't find it at Major Grocery Chains because "the public" doesn't know about Raw Honey and doesn't demand it, yet. When I made Direct Store Delivery to P&C stores near me, Raw Honey was on their shelves.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

*Re: Sue bee also known as the Sioux honey ass.......*

Unheated honey has enzymes that cause the release of Hydrogen Peroxide and enzymes that kill bacteria. Heated honey does not. Unheated honey is LESS likely to have microorganisms than heated honey, although both are acidic enough and sugar concentrated enough to inhibit most bacteria anyway. People do NOT heat honey to pasteurize it, they heat it to prevent it crystallizing and to make it easier to process and filter.


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## Stonefly7 (Nov 3, 2005)

*Re: Sue bee also known as the Sioux honey ass.......*

No problem with Sioux! You do what you have to do. When you are producing 400 to 500 barrels, how do you process and rotate stock at stores? That would take a seperate division of your company just to bottle and you would have to have a marketing division as well. All equals cost! 
As noted by Michael, almost all the stores I shop in have raw from a local beek and processed from a large company. As we educate at the markets and schools, we truly find out how little the consumer knows.

It would be interesting to know how many commercial folks just do retail, and I would like to see how its done in their operation. The hobbiest and sideliner has the time to bottle and market. The commercial with one or two helpers just has time to manage the bees.

Kind regards


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

We bottle most of our production or sell in buckets. Its not easy keeping bees and bottling honey and leaves little free time. i agree with ted about groeb however I just think there is alot of room for improvement that could be make at Sue that would benefit Ted and other members greatly. remember the seattle times articles on honey laundering....sue at first denied they purchase chinese honey then after confronted with the container that was traced to sue by the reporter stated they try not to. If a newspaper 
reporter can figure out where it came form u better know sue management knew it came from china. Now they may deny that to Ted and i would not be surpised!


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

From resent articles I've read, at least 1/2 of the Vietnamese honey if falsely labeled. They are exporting more honey than they have the ability to produce.
Some of the packers, possibly Sioux have reported some of the bad honey to the government. Thumbs up to the guys being honest.


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

So just for arguments sake assume that store bought/local honey are equally safe. Does the local bee keeper have his honey tested for anything that could be potentially harmful as say sue bee does? And if something happens such as your honey makes someone sick, how would the bee keeper compensate them, if the bee keeper could or would in fact compensate them. Would the bee keeper actively go and recall his product like a big company would when asked to do so? I doubt it. Now I have never been a lover of honey, never bought it, never will, but if in fact I had to for some reason I surely would buy a brand name honey as opposed to local honey if only because it is more than likely safer to consume. Also a larger company could get its product off the shelf easier in said instance. A large company probably would catch any contamination in tainted stock before it made it to the shelves. That's why I consider store bought honey a safer alternative to raw honey.


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

KQ6AR said:


> From resent articles I've read, at least 1/2 of the Vietnamese honey if falsely labeled. They are exporting more honey than they have the ability to produce.
> Some of the packers, possibly Sioux have reported some of the bad honey to the government. Thumbs up to the guys being honest.


Exactly my point.


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

Ted Kretschmann said:


> Come on guys, why all the antoganism toward Sioux??? Our honey goes through the most stringent lab in the nation and thus is checked for potential problems-can you say that??


My problem with them is not about their testing. Sure, they uncover adulterated honey, illegally laced with banned chemicals and they do keep it out of their product.

But all that testing is not to protect American consumers, in my opinion. It is only to protect themselves from liability. If they were truly concerned with protecting consumers from the potential problems that you speak of, they would do the right thing and inform the authorities that they have been presented with this illegal and potentially dangerous product and help them to track it back to its source.

But instead, it is returned to the seller with no way of tracking it as it finds another way onto shelves and into the homes of Americans. Sue Bee feels no moral responsibility to prevent this. The president of Sue Bee admitted as much when questioned about the banned chemicals, such as chloramphenicol, their testing finds in honey presented to them.

It's not their pricing/payment structure or product I find fault with. It is the moral bankruptcy of the leadership.

Wayne


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

*Re: Sue bee also known as the Sioux honey ass.......*



rwurster said:


> Heating and filtering obviously doesn't fit in with small enterprises. Do what you have to do to stay in business. I have never seen unprocessed honey sold in super markets (thank god).


I have bought unfiltered honey in Kroger, twice. Both times local beek operations. I love local honey. Sue Bee is for when I'm desperate or broke.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

*Re: Sue bee also known as the Sioux honey ass.......*

This is all ground that has been covered before. The same stories and/or rumors repeated and a lot of overheated rhetoric, though I must say Waynesgarden has broken some new ground in the tone of his post. Sioux Honey people are proud of their organization and many others loathe it and not a single mind will be changed. I get it, believe me I get it. I have stated my position in the past and will not do so again.


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## New Ky Beekeeper (Jun 27, 2011)

Didn't Sioux come out with a new product line of raw honey??


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

New Ky Beekeeper said:


> Didn't Sioux come out with a new product line of raw honey??


Not that I am aware of. They have marketed the Aunt Sue label for quite a few years now undoubtably as a way of moving some of their darker honeys, though as Ted pointed out there is also a market in some areas of the country for darker honeys. Once I had a landowner in Texas ask me if I was watering down my honey as he hadnt seen anything this light colored before. As most are aware there has been a world wide shortage of white honey for quite a number of years.


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

*Re: Sue bee also known as the Sioux honey ass.......*



jim lyon said:


> ...The same stories and/or rumors repeated and a lot of overheated rhetoric, though I must say Waynesgarden has broken some new ground in the tone of his post......


I don't believe I'm the first here to have a strong revulsion to the comments of Souix President Allibone, as quoted in the famous Seattle P-I report on honey laundering. They were his words. He has to live with them.

Wayne


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## jim morton (Sep 23, 2011)

I've been to TEDS abc co. and he knows what beek is about he's got it going on 
his raw honey is great and he works hard to keep it that way


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

rwuster
I dont mean to be rude or disrespectful, but you got alot to learn about honey. Most of your post is either false shows your lack of information. I encourage your to learn 
about honey in its raw state versus heated/filtered state. No wonder you dont buy honey.... I would not eat most store bought honey if you gave it to me! In fact alot of 
{most} store shelf big packer honey has been blended with foreign honey with many differant contaminants found. Local honey from a beekeeper is most often produced in 
cleaner more modern facilities than china. Once you heat honey and filter it it is easier for bacteria to grow. Now for the biggie....who is going to test the honey on the shelf? Hell FDA wont even check big containers at the border. But its no wonder you dont like honey as you probably eating that stuff form china with lead chloramphenicol and\
many more contaminates! No wonder you dont eat it!


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## Ted Kretschmann (Feb 2, 2011)

I will not put Jim Lyons on the spot on his political viewpoints of Sioux. While he may love or hate Sioux, his family's beekeeping roots go right back to the very early days of the formation of the Co-op. Not too many beekeeping families can say they were around before the Sioux Cooperative was formed.... Except Roland, who's family has been keeping bees since caveman days. And that was Many, many years ago that Sioux was formed.......Which brings me to this point. This Co-op does what most co-ops do not do-it survives, continues and does what it does best-markets honey. Most new co-ops go under quickly. This one has been around for EIGHTY odd years and has become an American Icon that consumers recognize. Whether you love or hate this Co-op, you would have to grudgingly admit that it will most likely be around for many more years to come. Presidents of companies have a way of sticking their feet in their mouths. Remember the one that "I just want my life back" as the tar balls were washing up on gulf beaches. They do not stay president of their respective companies for long. I have no complaints about be a cooperative member ,which gives me a way to market my honey. Even if it is "Aunt Sue grade". TED


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## StevenG (Mar 27, 2009)

Company presidents come, and company presidents go. I grew up with Sioux Bee honey, and regretted the name change from Sioux to Sue, kind of understood it, but hey, I'm a Neanderthal... Like my own honey best, but I don't mind the other stuff when served at restaurants. 

Ted, just out of curiousity, who actually _governs_ Sioux Bee? And how much input do the co-op members actually have in the operations? Personally I wish they'd advertise more, it would raise awareness of honey in general, and help all of us I would think.
Regards,
Steven


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Funny, I would always assume the local honey is LESS likely to be contaminated especially if I buy from someone who isn't putting things in their hive... and you are assuming it is MORE likely. We came to opposite conclusions.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

It used to be darn near impossible to get into Sue Bee. In the early seventies I tried and they weren't taking any new producers. At the time it was join them and get paid or compete with the foty cent chinee honey coming in back then. That and their longevity, as already stated, sez most of what is really important. It is amazing just how polluted with anti business sentiment the public is and I think that is behind most of this angst. Why don't we just smugly feel better than them and market our totally different products to a different market niche and let it stay there.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

I eat eggs from my hens, but I have to buy feed somewhere.
I eat meat from the store, because I won't raise it myself.
I grow my own veggies, and I really don't use that much honey. I won't have any of my own until next fall at the earliest. But obviously, I shop local. To each his own.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Michael Bush said:


> Funny, I would always assume the local honey is LESS likely to be contaminated especially if I buy from someone who isn't putting things in their hive... and you are assuming it is MORE likely. We came to opposite conclusions.


Not sure how many consumers know what the "local guy" is or isn't using in his hives. Being local in and of itself dosent make the product pure. Perhaps he is making claims on his label but absent that or any inside information if the consumer is concerned primarily about chemicals in the honey and your choices are a Sue Bee product or a local product which one do you think he should choose and why?


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

Suttonbeeman, not to be rude or disrespectful, but what chemicals are present in your honey? Do you have it tested before you sell it? Are you sure its safe and what will you do if and when someone gets sick from it? Your honey sales pitch is well rehearsed and might fool the average consumer. There's only 2 things i plan on doing with any excess honey my bees make. 1) store it and use it for food for the bees for the next season and 2) bury it and hope it doesnt raise the toxicity level of the soil its buried in or maybe use it in skunk traps because no body i have ever met cares if skunks are eating toxic honey or not before they get deceased. I surely wont get a kitchen license so I can bottle honey and I surely won't be liable for any of the ill effects or toxins that may or may not be present from consuming said honey.


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## Ted Kretschmann (Feb 2, 2011)

Steven, the board of directors actually governs Sioux. We the members elect the board members. If I have a complaint, I call my district board of director and let them have it. Dont worry, what is said gets relayed to the other board members at the next meeting. Steven, we even have the Pettys putting around in a Nascar sponsered by Sioux. And they are bringing back the Sioux trailers to be pulled by certain trucking lines. And we are directly involved in the Anti dumping fight, research into Varroa mites, and Support for what ever honey board we have now. Sioux is more active than you realize. TED


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## beeG (Jun 18, 2011)

Vance G said:


> It used to be darn near impossible to get into Sue Bee. In the early seventies I tried and they weren't taking any new producers. At the time it was join them and get paid or compete with the foty cent chinee honey coming in back then. That and their longevity, as already stated, sez most of what is really important. It is amazing just how polluted with anti business sentiment the public is and I think that is behind most of this angst. Why don't we just smugly feel better than them and market our totally different products to a different market niche and let it stay there.


I like this post .. It is very true Americans have been polluted with anti business sentiment ( well at least as long as that large corp is not union) I really dislike these post against Sue Bee and Ted. I do not think they are productive. Now the discussions of the differences in the honey ( without name calling) I find interesting. And, discussions on honey coming in from China. 
But, to diss Ted's honey as sub par. I myself like dark honey. It has more flavor. But I also like light honey too. Are we suspose to have but one uniform type of honey? I have yet to taste a honey that is nasty. Believe me folks dividing the different types of bee keepers, is a very bad thing to do. Speaking from someone who lost a life time of savings, and went through post traumatic stress. Coming from a very divided and volatile industry. I can see the beginnings of this industry following the same, due to the fact that your larger bee keepers are regulated and the smaller ones are not. And large co-ops are picked on by the local small growers etc. You divide bee keeping. It will be the beginning of the end. Because the more heated it gets. The more serious. Each side will have its experts. If the hobby side destroys the commercial side. It may be the end for all. Because the hobby side will never be able to keep up the demand. and lack of regulations will cause chaos. And when regulations happen. They will be formed by those with the least experience and understanding. Because the real knowledge in bee keeping will be too busy being a bee keeper then lobbying and trying to force regulations. and the loudest will be heard. not the most correct.


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

beeG said:


> I like this post .. It is very true Americans have been polluted with anti business sentiment ( well at least as long as that large corp is not union) I really dislike these post against Sue Bee and Ted. I do not think they are productive.


My impression is that most are displeased with Sue Bee because of their unwillingness to track down contaminated honey. By that, I mean that when a barrel of "Bad Honey" is discovered.. they return it to the seller. Many feel that someone should be notified and the offender pursued. Some feel that the offender simply resells his bad barrel to another buyer and the bad honey stays in circulation. How true all this is... well I do not know....


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

I just want to keep bees.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Well said, Gypsi...


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## oldforte (Jul 17, 2009)

It has been impirically proven....by me..and many others... that *local* honey is much better for certain allergies than that produced by bees from far removed places. My informed customers know this while most of the public have no clue...they buy store bought stuff and that's just fine. Somebody has to buy it. Good for you Sue Bee for providing honey for those folks.


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## StevenG (Mar 27, 2009)

rwurster said:


> Suttonbeeman, not to be rude or disrespectful, but what chemicals are present in your honey? Do you have it tested before you sell it? Are you sure its safe and what will you do if and when someone gets sick from it? Your honey sales pitch is well rehearsed and might fool the average consumer. There's only 2 things i plan on doing with any excess honey my bees make. 1) store it and use it for food for the bees for the next season and 2) bury it and hope it doesnt raise the toxicity level of the soil its buried in or maybe use it in skunk traps because no body i have ever met cares if skunks are eating toxic honey or not before they get deceased. I surely wont get a kitchen license so I can bottle honey and I surely won't be liable for any of the ill effects or toxins that may or may not be present from consuming said honey.


:scratch: sheesh! I just cannot figure out where you're coming from. You won't even eat your own honey because you believe it's toxic! What are you putting in your hives? And why are you even bothering with keeping bees? Do you test the vegetables and fruits you buy, to see what systemic pesticides might reside in them? Do you eat any kind of meat? If so, do you have it tested? I assume you stringently filter your drinking water, and don't bother buying bottled water because you're not sure where it comes from. 

And your comment to Suttonbeeman is downright insulting! "Your honey sales pitch is well rehearsed and might fool the average consumer." 
Regards,
Steven


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## Danman (Jun 13, 2011)

jim lyon said:


> Not sure how many consumers know what the "local guy" is or isn't using in his hives. Being local in and of itself dosent make the product pure. Perhaps he is making claims on his label but absent that or any inside information if the consumer is concerned primarily about chemicals in the honey and your choices are a Sue Bee product or a local product which one do you think he should choose and why?


The consumer that wants unadulterated food will buy local bc they can speak to the grower face to face, look them in the eye, and even visit the farm to see how things operate. This is my experience- we sell eveverything from fruit, veggies, eggs, to honey. 

The problem with big ag is is volume and speed. Penn state did a test comparing small farm processed (salatin) chicken and an unnamed store brand- twice as many bacteria cultures in store brand DESPITE dozens of ammonia dips. Still safe enough for consumption though :/


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## StevenG (Mar 27, 2009)

Ted, thanks for the info. My guess is it is responsible beekeepers like you and other key commercial folks who keep Sioux Bee going, and keep them responsive to problems that arise. They sure have gotten knocked around here often enough, sometimes deservedly so. But no organization is perfect. Heck, look at some of the stuff going on here on Beesource! :lookout:
Anyway, I've always had a soft spot in my heart for Sioux Bee, and sure hope they continue on, better than before.
Regards,
Steven


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

rwurster said:


> 2) bury it and hope it doesnt raise the toxicity level of the soil its buried in or maybe use it in skunk traps because no body i have ever met cares if skunks are eating toxic honey or not before they get deceased.


What do you do to your honey to make it "Toxic".... never heard of anyone burying their honey. Do you live in a heavily polluted area? Perhaps mining?


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## Ted Kretschmann (Feb 2, 2011)

Thanks Steven, I have a soft heart for Sioux also, not because I am a member. Because I like their spun honey. The spun honey is produce ONLY from Montana clover honey .Why?? Because Montana clover crystallizes in a fine grain that makes a good spun honey...Nor do I take second class to our dark honey produced down here in the south land. Hey, I do not cut the management any slack>If I or other members see a potential problem, we let them know about it. Some problems I was not aware of, until informed by members of this forum. I follow up and ask questions to find the truth. TED


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

I grew up just a short drive outside of Sioux City. My father and uncle were members at the time, my grandfather was one of the very first members back in the early 1930's. My grandfather bought and paid for an Iowa farm that we still own primarily with the profits he earned from his bees and his membership in Sioux Honey. Times were pretty tough then and a Coop like Sioux gave many small struggling beekeepers the ability to market their crop for a fair price. Of course it was all done with a hand crank extractor in those days. My father talked about loading a load of 5 gallon cans in the pickup truck at the end of a hard day and setting it off at the Sioux Honey dock in the dark of night. To me as a little boy in the 60's Sioux Honey was about the most exciting place imaginable, I was a regular visitor in the corner of their bottling room watching the whole bottling process in fascination while dad was there on business. I could go on with many more stories but suffice it to say that, yeah, I I have a soft spot in my heart for them as well. We havent been members in a few years but we have continued to do business with them from time to time, they have been fair in their grading, prompt in paying and have never gone back on their word.  I have always looked at "Sioux" with their national advertising profile as being an asset to the industry as well as a stabilizing influence on honey prices in times of uncertainty. Are they perfect? Certainly not, who is? Maybe I have been morally corrupted myself but I am not going to fault them for looking out for themselves and their membership, too bad the same cant be said for all honey packers.


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

StevenG you obviously missed the point completely so i will re-iterate for the 3rd or 4th time. The government and or the buisness that are marketing their meat, produce, whatever DO check to make sure their product is safe, mom and pops don't. I use european bees for pollination of watermellons, thats it. And ya know how when one thing is present in large quantities such as fertilizer, manure, or maybe the honey i would dump, it tends to make the area toxic? That's what I meant. I honestly don't care what kind of harmful elements may be in my honey since no one is ever going to consume it. The funny thing is that almost everyone is angry with Sue Bee for turning away tainted honey without notifying anyone where it went afterwards? So what? At least they turned it away and came clean about it later. I've watched youtube videos of people crushing and straining in their bathrooms or outside their house with the wind blowing, sneezing into the mixture. Around here you need a kitchen licence and an inspection before you can do anything of the sort, and yes that includes if you are using a centrifugal type extractor. The other funny thing is that no one, NO ONE, has answered the question as to what they would do if their honey made someone sick. Its easy to be rightous and point the finger at Sue Bee, but what would you do? Would you call all the people you sold to, put an ad in the paper warning of the danger, come clean and accept responsibility. Heh. 

One of the farms east of here grows cantaloupe and they sell to a nationwide distributor (luckily), said distributor caught the bacteria that had made it unsafe for human consumption. Two days later people in the area were getting sick from eating cantaloupe and guess what, the adjacent farm, which sells roadside, also had the bacterial 'infection'. That farmer denied it could have possibly been him, theres no way... had to be someone else... He's not going to have a farm next year. Store bought, yep. Sue Bee, hats off to you.


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

The Seattle P.I. reports that "two-thirds of the honey Americans consume is imported and almost half of that, regardless of what's on the label, comes from China." The first problem with that is some Chinese honey is "tainted with banned antibiotics" such as ciprofloxacin and chloramphenicol. The second problem, according to U.S. honey producers who are upset about the lack of oversight, is that whenever contaminated honey is discovered, many companies just sent it back to the importer and never tell the FDA—which means it can be resold elsewhere, including to other U.S. packers.

“

*Bill Allibone, Sue Bee's president, said the company has no intention of telling government regulators about the bad honey it finds.

It's not really Sue Bee's honey, he said, "because technically, it's still (the importer's) property until we pay for it.

"We have not notified the FDA in the past because we don't have title to that property," Allibone said.

"We deal with a core group of suppliers that have long, established ties in the import business, and we're assuming that when we reject a load of honey, they'll return it to the people they purchased it from."*
”

The National Honey Board, an industry trade group created by the USDA, says it's not their job to monitor the safety of imported honey:

“

"It's not something we do," he said. "We have no knowledge about any bad honey out there. That's not our job, and we never get reports of problems."

But in 2006, he sent an e-mail to honey board members, warning that tainted honey had been found in stores. In his warning, Boynton wrote that the industry had tested samples taken from products on supermarket shelves and found illegal levels of antibiotics.

"Two samples tested positive for ciprofloxacin at the level of 14.07 (parts per billion) and 5.61 ppb," Boynton wrote.

In a recent interview, Boynton initially denied any knowledge of the warning. He stressed that the board is "not a regulatory agency" and has no obligation to notify health agencies of potential hazards.
”

*It seems that local honey producers are the ones sounding the alarm*, and they may be doing this partly to stem anticompetitive practices from larger companies. But really, we're fine with that; the past couple of years of food safety failures have made it fairly clear that every food safety issue should be taken seriously.

Nuff said...keep up the fight local producers...


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

rwurster said:


> what they would do if their honey made someone sick. Its easy to be rightous and point the finger at Sue Bee, but what would you do?


"What-ifs' may never happen. When was the last time you knew of some adult getting sick from honey? Comparing cantaloupe to honey . . . doesn't fit in my book.


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

rwurster said:


> StevenG you obviously missed the point completely so i will re-iterate for the 3rd or 4th time. The government and or the buisness that are marketing their meat, produce, whatever DO check to make sure their product is safe, mom and pops don't. .


Within this County may well be the largest meat packing plant in the country. They process about 40000 hogs a day. Hog trucks roll constantly around here. I would like to suggest that you never visit this plant, because if you do... you may never eat meat again. At least not meat that you did not raise.... or purchase from a mom and pop. Industrial food production is far more likely to have, cause, or create a problem than farm raised food. At least thats my opinion.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

I don't disagree with a thing you wrote A6. The whole notion that somehow the only packer we know of that does testing this stringent and does it on their dime to protect their customers and themselves somehow gets the blame for the whole systemic breakdown in imported honey testing is what I have a problem with.


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

rwuster
Believe it or not yes I have had my honey tested! And it came back clean! What are YOU putting in your hives to contaminate your honey? Is 
the systemic pesticide watermellon bloom getting in your honey? Is it in the watermellons we are eating? what are you going to do when someone 
get sick or we all end up with cancer or alzheimers from eating neonictinoids laced food?( I assume u are using systemic pesticides like everyone else). I DO NOT use miteicide strips, antibotics on a regular basis and yes I have a commercial kitchen. what kind of conditions do you think honey is 
processed in in China??? remember all those recalls of chinese products by national companies. I wont reveal the name but there is more than one company that has sold adulterated honey on a national scale for years and more than one that is mislabeling now! In case you dont know most are 
interested in MONEY and will do anything to get it! I said in my first post to you that you have a lot to learn....I beleive that is true now more than ever!


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## Ted Kretschmann (Feb 2, 2011)

Well said Jim, That is the point I have been trying to make. I knew your family history but did not want to press you for the information. It is an honor to know the grandson of one of the original beekeepers in that group that had the foresight and fortitude to found such an Iconic American organization that has withstood the test of time, ups and downs of the American beekeeping industry. TED


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

We belong to a honey co-op. Not Sue, but a Canadian one similar to it. We are glad we do. It gives us a place to market our honey. They have high standards. We have sold to Sue and have no complaints.

On the side of cheap imported honey. We have companies which buy from countries who sell their product cheap. Why? Because the consumer wants cheap food. Look at all the no name brands, the discount items, the knock offs, it is out there cause it sells. The ingredients in product has to come from somewhere. So it will be second grade product either from our country which does not make grade A or #1, or it will be imported from countries which produce it cheaper. Until we as consumers quit buying imported stuff and buy Canadian or US, it is what we will get.

Case in point. Walmart produce VS the leading supermarket. I will use Sobeyes (Canadian) as an example. The product, say, potatoes is cheaper at walmart. Same size bag, still potatoes. But read the bag, which most of us do not. We see cheap, we see saving $. However, Walmart cheap potatoes are grade 2. Sobeyes are grade 1. 
Beef is another example. Those cheaper cuts at walmart are not grade A or triple A young fats. They are the old cows. They are marketed as maybe marinated, or seasoned to tenderize and sell it below the cost of Sobeyes. Why, because sobeyes is choice cuts.
My point is, when we see cheap, we need to compare apples to apples, look before we buy, and read the label. Just cause it says Canada #1 or USA #1 does not mean it is Canadian or US made. It means it meets the grade of our countries. Read the back, the fine print...there you will see just what is in it. 

As long as we want cheap food, as long as there is a market for it, we will get what we pay for.


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

OHHH guess what I just read more than a dozen people killed by eating tainted cantelope raised in colorado(are they yours?). Sold all across the 
country.....not a mom and pop company selling local...what happened, were then not tested....it was a big commercial outfit and they were recalled...rwuster please fill me in on how this happened!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Caveman Roland here:

I can remember beekeepers talking in the 60's and 70's about TRYING to get into Sioux Bee. They where very selective in who they would except. 

Does anyone know how the lawsuit by Sue Bee and the Gralic/crafishtail/mushroom? industry ended? It should have been settled by now. The suit was over failure of Customs to collect the bonds from the insurance companies when the importers failed to pay the import tariffs.

Don't worry, this will all be mute soon, Wisconsin's Honey definition should be law soon. Then the fur will fly.

Crazy caveman Roland


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## Bee Bliss (Jun 9, 2010)

I would like to point out that if someone is not careful what/when they put chemicals in their hive and think that's okay as no one is going to eat it anyway.............that there is such a thing as robber bees and that tainted honey can get eaten by people whether that is the intent or not.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

jim lyon said:


> ... I could go on with many more stories but suffice it to say that, yeah, I I have a soft spot in my heart for them as well. ...


Jim, I don't know about others, and might need to do it in another thread, and you might not really be interested in telling those stories...but if you did I'd enjoy reading them, it's sounds like the golden days of honey to me!

Ed


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

Suttonbeeman, I do know all 5 families involved in the cantaloupe fiasco and yes the family that sells roadside is going to lose their farm over it. You dont like pesticides? Maybe we should stop using them so it takes 7 times the land to grow half the food. Obiously not producing enough food to feed ourselves is worth it as long as you get to sell your tested (once, many years ago?) honey. And im the one that needs to learn something lawl. This thread shows that local honey needs to be regulated and tested just like everything else.


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## Ted Kretschmann (Feb 2, 2011)

Roland, I do not think from what I last heard that the lawsuit had gone well for the garlic/honey/crawfish and who ever else......Roland are you going to be starring in the next Geico commercial????:lookout: Ted


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

rwurster said:


> Suttonbeeman, I do know all 5 families involved in the cantaloupe fiasco and yes the family that sells roadside is going to lose their farm over it. You dont like pesticides? Maybe we should stop using them so it takes 7 times the land to grow half the food. Obiously not producing enough food to feed ourselves is worth it as long as you get to sell your tested (once, many years ago?) honey. And im the one that needs to learn something lawl. This thread shows that local honey needs to be regulated and tested just like everything else.


rwuster
since i dont use mitecidies at all and antibotics on a regular basis seems to refute your theory, What about the family that sold to the stores where the tainted food is sold? aND FOR YOUR INFORMATION MY HONEY HAS BEEN TESTED ON A 
YEARLY BASIS! Are you using GMO seed laced with systemic pesticides? If you are growing watermellons I bet you are using gmo seed so it seems 
that YOU are willing to do anything to make a dollar! No Im not aganist pesticides....but I am aganist systemic neonictinoids? Are you using those? Have you seen all the evidence of long term effects on pollinating insects? Watched Dan rathers report? Did you know that some people got sick 
in Florida when too much was applied? What do YOU think of the long term affects on us. These pesticides are inthe food we are eating and their 
half life isnt short, what is the cumulative affect?


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## bevy's honeybees (Apr 21, 2011)

*Re: Sue bee also known as the Sioux honey ass.......*

"Why is that good? Actually you can find raw honey now and again, but it's not the norm. If they did people would find out how delicious honey is... and that would be bad in what way?"

That's right. My son bought a jar of processed honey and my 3 1/2 yr old granddaughter said "yuck! I want grandma's honey."
And she likes the bees, too.


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

rwurster said:


> .....There's only 2 things i plan on doing with any excess honey my bees make. 1) store it and use it for food for the bees for the next season and 2) bury it and hope it doesnt raise the toxicity level of the soil its buried in.......


Still interested in the unanswered question of what type of poisons you are putting in your hives to require burying it. Or for that matter, why you are keeping bees at all? Makes little sense to engage in an agricultural endeavor only to dispose of the product as waste.

Wayne


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## Danman (Jun 13, 2011)

Rwurster- you're fear and concern regarding food safety is understandable given the current climate. But refusing to buy mom and pops bc it isn't tested is self defeating. It's a game of numbers - Tyson for example may test 1 of every 100,000 chickens it processes. The mom and pops generally process 1000 or less per year. Statistically you're eating just as much untested big ag food as you would be if you bought mom and pops (not to mention all the bacteriacides and preservatives large scale food is saturated with). This is EXACTLY why testing small farms is not required- because it falls below the inspection threshold. You have to choose where to place your trust- I prefer the small farm I can visit. The problem with our food industry is not a matter of inspections but scale. Seriously- how do you think we have survived for the past 10,000 years- since the inception of agriculture?


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## Ted Kretschmann (Feb 2, 2011)

A semi truck load of honey is 64 drums. That is right around 40,000 pounds or better. A load is usually divided up into five lots. A couple of samples are drawn randomly from each lot. That is a total of ten samples that goes to the lab for testing. Thus Sioux and the producer both know what is in the honey from the testing------That means moisture, color, flavor, chemicals that might show up-I bought some supers from a beek and amitraz from when we used mitacure strips showed up years ago in the Sioux testing. So the average Sioux honey producer has a chemical base line for his operation based on the labs testing. So by being so stringent in testing, Sioux produces a clean product for human consumption. And the producers are kept honest and try to keep chemical use down to a minimum. TED


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## tshumate (Jan 3, 2011)

:noanman : First let me say that I am a newbie to Beekeeping, this is my first year. Installed 3 packages early spring and by God’s grace pulled 12 gals of honey and they are strong colonies getting ready to go into the winter. I organically manage my hives. Neither antibiotics nor synthetic chemicals have been used in my hives. I have to take you to task on your statement regarding Tyson or for that matter any other poultry producer. You say “It's a game of numbers - Tyson for example may test 1 of every 100,000 chickens it processes.” This is an utterly false statement. I work for Tyson and have worked for another poultry company before. Testing is done on multiple samples and multiple points throughout the process from egg to finished product and at one point 10 birds minimum out of 100 are tested by the companies not mention USDA checks every single bird in the slaughter process. So, anyone who can go to the USDA FSIS website and verify this, plus anyone who has worked in the industry will know that your example is a laden falsehood. In short for all this educate folks with truth and allow them to make a conscious decision. I prefer raw honey as opposed to “store bought”.

Tim S.:no:


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

http://www.aboutlawsuits.com/tyson-ground-beef-recall-e-coli-21446/

"About 130,000 pounds of Tyson ground beef is being recalled after at least four children in Ohio fell ill from E. coli food poisoning."


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## beeG (Jun 18, 2011)

tshumate said:


> :noanman : First let me say that I am a newbie to Beekeeping, this is my first year. Installed 3 packages early spring and by God’s grace pulled 12 gals of honey and they are strong colonies getting ready to go into the winter. I organically manage my hives. Neither antibiotics nor synthetic chemicals have been used in my hives. I have to take you to task on your statement regarding Tyson or for that matter any other poultry producer. You say “It's a game of numbers - Tyson for example may test 1 of every 100,000 chickens it processes.” This is an utterly false statement. I work for Tyson and have worked for another poultry company before. Testing is done on multiple samples and multiple points throughout the process from egg to finished product and at one point 10 birds minimum out of 100 are tested by the companies not mention USDA checks every single bird in the slaughter process. So, anyone who can go to the USDA FSIS website and verify this, plus anyone who has worked in the industry will know that your example is a laden falsehood. In short for all this educate folks with truth and allow them to make a conscious decision. I prefer raw honey as opposed to “store bought”.
> 
> Tim S.:no:


Thank you for this post. I hope the moderator does not remove it.
This is why I rant. Because there are intelligent, well meaning people out there. That truly believe made up stuff, and start battles over these made up things. Which if they won. Could harm society. 

Tyson like sue bee and other larger corps that feed Americans. Are very important. Those trying to raise the same foods on a smaller scale. Have got to learn That killing your large competition so you have more wiggle room to make larger profits. Will harm our society and economy. Our food is already more experience then many countries. Granted sure I would love to make it rich raising honey bees. That would be awesome. But I do not want to starve out fellow Americans doing it. Or make it that foreign countries would saturate the market because they can make it cheaper. 
As I have said before in markets that allow hobbies to compete along side larger regulated people in the same ventures. Major bickering will cause real problems. 

The poster who believes Tyson only tests 1 out of 100,000 I feel he is an intelligent, good person who wants what is right. But he was fed false info. The people starting these rumors know they are lying. So they should be who you look at and try to discover why? 

If Tyson went out of business tomorrow , and all the other larger poultry producers. How much per pound would chicken be for the consumers? How much real testing would happen? because I know if you butcher under 30,000 chickens a year. You are not regulated at all. I saw a video of a polyculture farm where they butcher chickens in the open air with just a garden hose, They use volunteers to do it too. . The chickens have sores all over them from being free range, and they are used to clean up cow dung in the pastures. Which they free range in cages LOL that roll. Guess they know preidtors would wipe them out. 

I would take a factory raised chicken any day over that free range stuff and it is three times more expensive too.

mmm maggot eating sore infected chickens butchered in unsanitary conditions. And that my friends is what those sold on the factory farmed hormone and preservative injected stories are paying high dollar to eat, when buying free ranged.

I agree raise your own is better. But if I am buying it. It is factory farmed for me. Same with the honey sorry guys. I think it is great people will pay high dollar for what they are led to believe is superior. But Me I will buy what is on sale. Or I will produce it myself. Because I know the small farmers are not regulated at all. And I am not paying top dollar for a bunch of heated words. 

Also as for golden rod honey. I would love some of that stuff. This year my bees are new and I am not taking honey. But I use Golden Rod for medical reasons. It is one of the few holistic herbs that I found works for me. Germany uses it as medicine. Funny some people call it junk honey. from what Golden Rod does for me. That would be a honey I would pay more for. Regardless of the taste.


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## beeG (Jun 18, 2011)

Barry said:


> http://www.aboutlawsuits.com/tyson-ground-beef-recall-e-coli-21446/
> 
> "About 130,000 pounds of Tyson ground beef is being recalled after at least four children in Ohio fell ill from E. coli food poisoning."


Maybe they should stop hiring angry illegals..


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

beeG said:


> Maybe they should stop hiring angry illegals..


I bet mom and pop raising those yard birds and with their beehives out back don't hire "angry illegals"...I'd rather buy from them, they take personal pride in their products and I seriously doubt they'd do anything to contaminate the quality/safety of their products. If it comes down to it I can ask'em if they use any chemicals or drugs....the big corporations will not stammer when they answer yes, and that is understandable.

Having said that... I wish the big corporate/consolidated farming operations the best of business...mom and pop cannot produce enough chickens or honey to feed places like New York City, Chicago, Atlanta, Boston, Miami, Dallas, San Francisco, etc.,...it takes the big factory farms using intensive methods to produce the amount of food that the population of this country consumes (and that's above what we have to import). If the the system collapses and the big factory farms (both domestic and foreign) fold up we've all got BIG problems. Some of the methods of production I don't like, but I can't really disagree with them being as that is what it takes to feed the people. The small farmers down my way mostly gone. Poultry is struggling. Beef is a dieing a slow death. We should definitely hope these big companies will survive.

As for Sioux Honey/Sue Bee....Ted's part of the coop's production might be enough to feed Montgomery, maybe Birmingham, maybe Mobile, maybe Atlanta...I have no idea. But I'm quiet confident that the honey produced in my county wouldn't come close to supplying the smallest one of those cities...probably wouldn't even supply my little county population of 12,000 people. If I ever get up to 25-50 hives my biggest problem will probably be merchandising my honey, though. At 100+ hives it'll be even more difficult to distribute. Coop's such as Sioux Bee/Sue Bee/whatever appear to be good in furnishing a distribution path for the larger producers. The final distribution area the coop might provide could be thousands of miles away and impossible for the original producer to reach...and it probably is an area that the local producers can't match the demand. Big demand requires big production. You're not going to supply Hardee's and McDonald's with the production of a guy raising 40 head of cattle but if you can get with him and buy half a cow and ya'll have it slaughtered at a local meat market that usually is some mighty fine eatin'!!! Same with the honey...mass produced/processed honey will feed the masses, but if you want that special flavor that you're seeking you're going to have to go to the source.

Ted, be forewarned...and warn Sue Bee, too. I'm coming after ya'll. Yelp, I'm gonna have guns blazing for ya'll this spring with *both* of my new beehives!!!! You've been warned!!! (Hmm, I wonder how many tractor/trailer rigs I need to contract with????...hmm, and exporting the surplus over the domestic needs, I've gotta look into that...hmm, now how much honey can I expect out of my two hives...where's my spreadsheet???...contracts to sign...purchasing that new 200-frame extractor...oh, I almost forgot the turkey feather...and I gotta make sure all those worker bee's union dues are paid up....so much to do, so little time!!!!)  :lpf:

Ed
Honey Impire Intheswamp

Seriously, my hat's off to these guys running the big operations...rather thee than me!!


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

good info both ways. And yes, it is a buyer beware at the grocery store, a spiritual practice advised before eating anything...

I can't produce enough food to feed myself year around, but I do produce enough to eat a healthier diet than if I were buying canned vegetables and fruit at a premium price.

There is good and bad everywhere. And some day, our number is up. 

We all do the best we can.

Ed, Great last paragraph....

Gypsi


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## Ted Kretschmann (Feb 2, 2011)

Ed, that was the reason I petitioned and joined the Co-op. They did not accept me right away. I was placed on a waiting list and produced for them as a none member for five years. Sioux just does not take anybody into its membership ranks. And like joining the Masons-you have to have a referal. My referal came from a Sioux member located up in Minnesota. With out that referal, you do not get into Sioux. Sioux is looking for certain qualifications--how many hives of bees the person owns, how many pounds of honey he averages per years production, and does he have a decent processing plant--most important. So rather than put up with trying to find a buyer every year for my honey--which can be a pain. I co-oped out. I have clean drums and gaskets delivered to me free of charge every year. My honey is picked up and transported by truck line free of charge. Thus I do not have the headaches of trying to find decent drums and transportation for my honey. That time can be spent doing something important---like keeping the bees. TED PS, Ed what weird things are you going to do to bees with that turkey feather???


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## Corvair68 (May 10, 2011)

What do you use on your melons that would cause the blossoms nectar to be toxic? Do you seriously use so much fertilizer that the honey would be toxic? If so wouldn't your watermelons be toxic as well? Scary...


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## Corvair68 (May 10, 2011)

> Are you using GMO seed laced with systemic pesticides? If you are growing watermellons I bet you are using gmo seed so it seems
> that YOU are willing to do anything to make a dollar! No Im not aganist pesticides....but I am aganist systemic neonictinoids? Are you using those? Have you seen all the evidence of long term effects on pollinating insects? Watched Dan rathers report? Did you know that some people got sick
> in Florida when too much was applied? What do YOU think of the long term affects on us. These pesticides are inthe food we are eating and their
> half life isnt short, what is the cumulative affect?


Oh... maybe its the systemic pesticides that makes his honey toxic? Is it any better to sell fruit full of pesticides and chemicals than to sell honey derived from the same plants?


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

Apparently you have a hard time comprehending what was said in a post so until you do, have fun with that lol


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

Did I miss the part where you explain why you have to bury your toxic honey?

Wayne


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

waynesgarden said:


> Did I miss the part where you explain why you have to bury your toxic honey?
> 
> Wayne


I think it had to do with a large quantity of it being dumped in one spot.... hence the honey made the ground toxic. Probably something to that... a buddy of mine once dumped a barrel by accident out side his honey house.... no grass has grown there since.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

rwurster said:


> Suttonbeeman, I do know all 5 families involved in the *cantaloupe fiasco*<<<SNIP>>>


I would think that the families of the 13 (for now) deceased individuals would say that what their loved ones have suffered through and the emotional devastation that they've experienced (and still experiencing) to be a bit more than a "cantaloupe fiasco".


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

Stir it so it stinks


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## woodguyrob (Jul 29, 2010)

beeG said:


> I saw a video of a polyculture farm where they butcher chickens in the open air with just a garden hose, They use volunteers to do it too. . The chickens have sores all over them from being free range, and they are used to clean up cow dung in the pastures. Which they free range in cages LOL that roll. Guess they know preidtors would wipe them out. mmm maggot eating sore infected chickens butchered in unsanitary conditions. (QUOTE]
> 
> beeG- being the intelligent poster that you are I would encourage you to the read book -The omnivores dilema by Michael Pollan and while you're at it read his book In defense of food.
> 
> ...


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## Ted Kretschmann (Feb 2, 2011)

Come on guys, this thread was started to explain some of the inner workings of Sioux and to find out why there is such hard feelings towards this ancient, venerable co-op. Which is one of the older co-ops in the USA......Please do not feed the pidgeons on this thread with poisionous canteloups and pus filled sore laden chickens....Thanks...TED


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

rwurster said:


> Stir it so it stinks


 Sometimes crap has to be stirred so it can air out and quit stinking.

Ed

I posted this before reading your post, Ted. I started to delete it, but then saw that it applies to the thread as well.


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

Intheswamp said:


> Sometimes crap has to be stirred so it can air out and quit stinking.


Too bad that isn't the case here :applause:


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

OK.. back to Sue Bee. 

There is a Sue Bee facility in this county... Elizabethtown, NC to be specific. If you walk in over there and ask questions.. you are pretty much pointed at the home office. It is almost like what they do is a secret... but perhaps I exaggerate. The scuttlebutt is that it takes a semiload to deal with them... and there is at least a couple in this area who produce that quantity of honey, yet no one that I know of (and I mean the entire state) deals with Sue Bee.... it's all very curious to me.. just what they do. Some say it is a conduit for their foreign honey.... I mean we are not very far from the port at Wilmington and in the other direction... Highway 95 is not very far... so maybe that it is. I realize they have to fill their contracts and purchasing abroad is probably necessary, but there certainly isn't much effort to deal with the honey that this area has to offer.... at least so it appears.... but I can be wrong.

So Ted... do you know what the Elizabethtown facility does?


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## woodguyrob (Jul 29, 2010)

Ted Kretschmann said:


> Come on guys, this thread was started to explain some of the inner workings of Sioux and to find out why there is such hard feelings towards this ancient, venerable co-op. Which is one of the older co-ops in the USA......Please do not feed the pidgeons on this thread with poisionous canteloups and pus filled sore laden chickens....Thanks...TED


Sorry Ted. You're right no need to hijack the thread.


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## Danman (Jun 13, 2011)

_10 birds minimum out of 100 are tested by the companies not mention USDA checks every single bird in the slaughter process. So, anyone who can go to the USDA FSIS website and verify this
_
Tshumate- good job taking me to task for misinformation. Your inside perspective is valuable. 

_In short for all this educate folks with truth and allow them to make a conscious decision
_
The problem it seems is a matter of who to trust- where to go for the facts. Should I trust the often radical opposition? Obviously not. Should I trust Tyson marketing? The company just settled out of court on allegations of bribing inspectors.

Guess I should just stick to the five senses.

****Sorry!- didn't read the last posts. Please delete


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## ryan (Apr 3, 2010)

Ummm.... let me step over the dead bodies and hide from the crazies. Yikes, this is off in the weeds even for a Sue Bee thread.

Ted, I'm hoping you can speak to the funding that Sue Bee has done with the anti dumping programs. Both how Sue members paid so much per 
pound for many years and how we are going to fund it this year. I think there is a change this year. This is money we give in addition to voluntary donations many make to the ABF or AHPA. 

I don't keep up with this stuff this time of year. I'm hoping you are up to speed. Thanks


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## Ted Kretschmann (Feb 2, 2011)

The Elizabethtown plant originally was located in Waycross, Georgia. The Waycross plant was located in an old military complex. The building had gotten old and worn. Some of the big cereal makers told Sioux that if you want to keep our contracts, you must upgrade to a new location more central to the cereal makers plants.....So that is what Sioux did. Bought the building in North Carolina and relocated the Waycross plant.:HPM, most of the honey handled in the Waycross plant comes from-A-Southeastern producers or-B- is trucked in from the Sioux main plant in Iowa. The NC plant handles a lot of Aunt Sue grade products either in Bulk or Bottle. The reason that nobody is allowed into the plant that is not a co-op member---TERRORISM------Being a food plant, Uncle Sam has put the regulations on just who can stop and visit. So gone are the days when school kids could visit and see honey processed and packed. You can blame Muslim extremism and 9-11 for those changes. So it is not just you HPM or anyone else that is being singled out and discriminated against--It is just Federally mandated regulations that are being followed. I even have to be careful I am told on who can and cannot visit my processing plant, since the product goes to Sioux. You see manure rolls down hill. TED


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## Ted Kretschmann (Feb 2, 2011)

Sioux has given millions in the fight against the dumping of funny honey....We the producers have a small percent taken out per pound-1/4 of a cent last time I checked- to fund the fight against funny honey. This is in addition to the 1 cent per pound check off that goes to the do nothing National honey board. We the members of Sioux do our fair share in the fight against the dumping of honey and the rest of the industry benefits also because of our actions. WE work directly with the AHPA and ABF in that fight. So the critics out there Just NEED TO BACK OFF!!!. What have you done in the fight?? TED


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## ryan (Apr 3, 2010)

OK The formula for the mandatory donation is different for 2011. I'm pretty sure the donation is going to be large. I'll post it when I get to the bottom of my to do list. If any members have the info handy, please post it.


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

Ted Kretschmann said:


> You see manure rolls down hill. TED


Dang! So that's the rest of the story.... thanks. I some how thought you would know.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Ted Kretschmann said:


> The reason that nobody is allowed into the plant that is not a co-op member---TERRORISM------Being a food plant, Uncle Sam has put the regulations on just who can stop and visit.


That's a good one!! I know of plenty of food processing plants that allow visitors. Believe me, if a terrorist is interested in contaminating a food source, honey would be near the bottom of the list. I've been through several breweries. I'll bet more people drink beer than consume honey, you think?


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## Ted Kretschmann (Feb 2, 2011)

I agree Barry, but a lot of us commercials have had to register our honey houses with Homeland Security. And THAT is the reason Sioux will not let nonmembers into their packing plants. Is it right or fair-I do not make the rules....TED


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

The single biggest terrorist threat to US citizens is nuclear. Stopping school children from visiting nuclear power plants does nothing to diminish that threat.

You don't test to improve quality of a product you test to find problems. What you do after you find the problem is what will improve the product in the future.

Ted you spoke of testing so many barrels of honey on a truck load (sounds like an AQL) which is meant to find problems from a supplier. Doesn't do squat for quality. The quality part comes in on how they hammer the supplier for a failure in there processing or if they ban them all together. Usually happens on the third occurrence. At least in the medical industry.
There is no freaking way every bird can be inspected or anything can be inspected 100%. Large food packing facilities have the greatest risk for contamination. That is why food is bleached, doused with chems and now irradiated to prevent disease. Small local farms do have a risk of producing tainted food but it is very small in comparison. Testing does not eliminate the risk. No governmental regulatory body relies on testing to insure quality. You use testing to find a problem or verify/ validate a process to insure quality.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

TED asked :

What have you done in the fight??

Check page 939 pf the ABJ. I think I am screwed.

Crazy Roland


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Acebird said:


> The single biggest terrorist threat to US citizens is nuclear.


 I dunno about that. I've always thought that drinking water would be the biggie. But what do I know? 

Ed


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## Scrapfe (Jul 25, 2008)

suttonbeeman said:


> ... I just read [that] more than a dozen people killed by eating tainted cantelope... how [did] this happened!!!!!!!!!!!!


I am not on sight in Colorado or anything like that but I suspect that this latest out break of deadly canolopes can be traced back to 'organic' agricultural practices. 

Like I have said before on this forum, when I was a child we cleaned out the millking stall in grannie's barn once every year, if it needed it or not. Then we dumped the compacted cow patty cake on the garden.

However we were smart enough to cook our food before eating it.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Intheswamp said:


> I've always thought that drinking water would be the biggie. Ed


Unless you include the oil companies as terrorist they don't need to mess with our water. We are doing a fine job of polluting that with hydro fracking and ag chemicals. Nuclear is more sudden and long lasting.

We fertilize with chicken manure and I have no problem eating a raw carrot or anything else out of the garden.:thumbsup:


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## Beezly (Jun 25, 2011)

beeG said:


> because I know if you butcher under 30,000 chickens a year. You are not regulated at all. I saw a video of a polyculture farm where they butcher chickens in the open air with just a garden hose, They use volunteers to do it too. . The chickens have sores all over them from being free range, and they are used to clean up cow dung in the pastures. Which they free range in cages LOL that roll. Guess they know preidtors would wipe them out.
> 
> I would take a factory raised chicken any day over that free range stuff and it is three times more expensive too.
> 
> ...


The free range chickens you talk about did not have sores because they were free ranged, they had sores because of mismanagement by the grower. I have raised chickens until last year, using the salatin method for years, in pens moved acrossed pasture daily, with nary a problem. My chickens have been sold to locals wanting a superior product and i always sold everything i could raise. My customers were always welcome to come to the farm to see their food grown and butchered at any time and many did. I can find videos on the net showing the bad side of anything, to put all producers in the same boat because you saw a video shows ignorance. 
Have you ever been to a commercial chicken farm? the birds are confined, have respiratory problems, sores ( you don't see this because the birds are put into soups and used in pot pies), eat bugs from THEIR dung, peck at each other, this is why their beaks are cut. My chickens are healthy, happy until slaughter and don't stink when removed from the bag. Ever smell that? commercial chicken stinks even though there are multiple bleach baths. do some research before stigmatizing the mom and pop industry. I also bet that my processing techniques are at least as sterile as the big boys even without the buildings.
Oh, by the way, my brother in law supervises inspectors and helps to set the FDA regulations for meat processors. He is with the FSIS, has seen my operation, and finds no issue with it. He has even gone as far as too say that my birds are superior to what is produced in the factories. Not as much fat, smell, no broken bones, lungs that are still nice and pink and livers not destroyed by the drugs.
Buy what you want, you do get what you pay for. 
regards,
mike


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## Ted Kretschmann (Feb 2, 2011)

Since there are no further questions about Sioux, I would like to thank everyone that did have any comments that were related to Sioux. I hope Barry would close the thread, as it has now gone to the birds--Really, Chickens....TED


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