# Minimum size for a self sustaining observation hive?



## shaneTX (Jun 7, 2016)

Im wondering what the smallest hive I can manage that will be sustainable?

I live in suburbia, Houston and would like a small outdoor observation hive in my own yard to watch and keep things pollinated. 

I have a few concerns:
1. My neighbors and family aren't super keen on having a hive with 60K bees flying around.. Thus I want a smaller hive
2. My neighbor is worried about a swarm showing up under his house -- I worry about him wanting me to pay for damages from a swarm from my hive. Need to control swarms

My goal is to build a small observation hive with say 2 -5 frames that could be mostly self sufficient except for perhaps our 1-2 months of winter-ish. I'm assuming 2-5 frames would keep the bee density down and still give me enough bees to observe them. I find them amazing to watch. 

My questions are:

1. Can a hive self sustain with 3 deep frames? Less? Would I need to feed it all the time or just during the winter? 
2. What's the best way to deal with swarm control? It sounds like smaller hives can lead to swarming because they run out of space. Should I just freeze a brood frame once in a while to keep size in check? Remove the queen and some bees when I see swarm cells show up to a new hive? (I have some property 30 minutes away)
3. I kinda want to build my own observation hive. Anyone have links to free DIY build a observation hive? I looked around and didn't see anything. I would likely customize it but want to make sure I understand the measurements right.

appreciate any help.


----------



## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

Forget that! The smaller the hive the more frequently they swarm. 3 frames is sustainable when the bees fill those frames in about 5 weeks they will swarm and start over, this will cycle occur about every 5 weeks until they die out. Because eventually they will swarm too late in the year to recover. It takes a great deal of management to keep an observation hive going with 8 full deep frames. Anything less without available resources to aid in the management becomes imposable. 
I have several eight frame Observation Hives, I split them twice a summer to manage swarming. Even with that they still sometimes swarm. Which for me is no problem I have hundreds of hives to put them in. The reality is you are more apt to have swarm problems with a small hive than a well managed full size hive.


----------



## D Coates (Jan 6, 2006)

I use 5 full size in my OB hive. The issue you'll run into is the smaller the hive the more prone to swarming it is. Even with my 5 frames I've got to steal frames when it's getting overpopulated to avoid swarming. Put those stolen frames with brood in any hives or nucs you've got that need a boost. You need to be an experienced beekeeper to have an OB hive and you've got to have additional hives that you can steal brood from and give to as you will at some point have queen issues and you're going to have to work with taking care of the problem. Mine is in a business and most people don't know the hive is even there until someone tells them. It's been here going on 5 years now. The bees fly above the walkway by 10ft and you can't see them. No one has been stung nor have there been any issues. Your neighbors won't even know they're there if they don't see the stereotypical white boxes. I bought my customized hive and then modified it and how it hung, how to move it and how the bees entered and exited.


----------



## shaneTX (Jun 7, 2016)

Thanks for all the suggestions. Very useful and confirms what I was thinking about the swarms. I currently have 2 other hives that are 30 minutes away that and expect to grow that to more.

D Coates -- so you manage swarming by stealing frames from the OB hive and put them in your other hives or a Nuc to split? How do you decide when it's time to steal frames?

I want a personal OB hive so I don't have to drive 30 minutes to watch them. I'm fine taking frames to my other hives. It sounds from experienced beeks that I may end up just observing the hive crashing in winter.  

Maybe the answer is to merge the OB hive with my other hives in November and then restock the Ob hive in February from my existing hives.


----------



## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

Winter is the time when OB hives have an advantage. You can monitor them and feed as needed, The hive growth is nil to very slow throughout most of the winter. so overcrowding is not a major concern. If in a heated building as all of mine are the bees stay somewhat active and you can enjoy them more. You can also monitor capped honey to see how they are doing.


----------



## greasyspider (May 31, 2015)

I have a 4 medium frame OB hive that I overwinter in Vt. Have a pint mason jar feeder on all the time (except during flows).


----------



## D Coates (Jan 6, 2006)

shaneTX said:


> D Coates -- so you manage swarming by stealing frames from the OB hive and put them in your other hives or a Nuc to split? How do you decide when it's time to steal frames?


Experience. When the queen is laying in all the frames and the population is high consider removing a frame or two (and their attendants) and replace them with 2 undrawn frames. When you do it with undrawn you've got make sure there's flow for them to draw it out. Undrawn frames won't do tons to alleviate overcrowding but it helps. If they're drawing comb though it'll consume a lot of the hives energy and swarming urges. If you've got an empty drawn frame they'll instantly get to work on that one. You're already a beekeeper so you've got some experience but even with that they'll challenge you in ways a full size hive won't.

I'd recommend an OB hive to anyone with beekeeping experience who's willing to work them. You'll see all types of things you've never seen before and you can understand what's going on with your regular hives (flow, dearth, what's blooming via pollen being brought in, failing queen, etc) by watching what's going on in your OB hive. Case in point, it's really dry here. It's normally the height of our flow though. I would think there's no flow going on but I don't want to disturb my production hives to find out. I watch my OB hive and even with it's limited size they're steadily filling and capping cells. I'll be able to see when the flow stops too when the capping of the cells stop (as well as the light bur comb that shows up on the glass).


----------



## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

I would say a hive can be kept small, but not by itself.

There is one beekeeper here who says he had a 7-year-old queen. That's not bad for a bug with a maximum lifespan of 3 years. He says he keeps her in a nuc, and he takes brood from the nuc as needed to keep it small and prevent swarming. The queen adjusted to the environment by slowing down brood rearing. Apparently, because she still has eggs, she has survived.

That's a tricky balance. I tried that with our old queen last summer, putting her in a nuc. She had never swarmed before. I did take some brood from her to help out her daughter's hives, but did not keep up with it this spring. A couple of weeks back we caught her with swarm cells, but she was still present. We rescued her. She's back in the nuc.

So apparently you can maintain a nuc for a long time, but it takes management. You have to be able to pull brood, which suggests you need other hives that can accept it. That would suggest you need some beekeeping friends, or an outyard some place, that would be able to accept the donations.

I think you would be better off finding someone who would like bees on their property, but doesn't want the bother of managing them. A lot of my friends keep their bees this way. Its not that hard to find people who would love to have bees, especially if you have farms or orchards about. A local high school girl keeps bees at a regional memorial park.

All that said, our old queen lives in an indoor nuc, and I expect to switch that out to a cute little Ulster Obs hive at some point. The hive is equipped with an entrance "foyer" rigged to detach, with a couple of aluminum flashing hatches to close off the foyer and hive entrance. 1 1/2" clear vinyl tubing runs from the foyer to a landing board rigged in a second floor window. I could probably put one of these here in town and my neighbors would never notice. The clear vinyl tubing allows me to watch foragers come and go, and its addictive. I originally tried this to stop a donor hive from robbing a new nuc ... works a treat! The other bees don't recognize this entrance, and if they do they have to run a gauntlet of two feet of tube and the foyer to gain access. The one catch is overwintering in a heated building is problematic. My indoor hive is keep in an unheated garage workshop so they quiet down normally in the winter.


----------



## greasyspider (May 31, 2015)

I just let mine do its thing. A 4 frame hive isn't going to produce honey anyhow, so why bother messing with it? I suppose if I needed resources for a production hive, I could steal a frame here or there, but doing so really sets the OB hive back. Almost as much as letting them swarm.


----------

