# Why does syrup or a nectar flow encourage virgin queens to go out and mate?



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Where do you keep reading this? Maybe it is a misunderstanding? Like you, I would expect that Virgin Queens simply have a natural urge to get mated and that syrup or nectar may have little to do w/ it.


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## BeeKeep (Mar 30, 2006)

I'm just starting to raise queens - so my answer is not the 'expert'. 
It seems to me the mating NUCs are extremely small & weak. Their only purpose being to give the queen a home and to verify that she has mated and is laying. With so few bees, the ability to forage AND to care for any pending brood is very limited. Seems to me that feeding them gives them the ability to build up. Consequently, I think it's more of a colony management focus than a queen mating issue.
Then again -- as I indicated -- I'm NOT the expert here . . .
Scott


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## fish_stix (May 17, 2009)

I normally do not feed my mating nucs (5 frame deeps) and have no problem with getting mated queens. When a virgin is ready she's going to go get mated, feeder or no feeder.


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## HONEYDEW (Mar 9, 2007)

possibly mistaken the part where a nectar flow or thin syrup feeding stimulates a queen to start laying..?


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

I will stand corrected. It isn't the first time...


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## AramF (Sep 23, 2010)

Well, I had two side by side hives last fall that decided to superseed their queens at the same time. They superseeded the queens and for 2 weeks I did not see any eggs or larvae. So I began to feed both hives and 3 days later eggs showed up. This was at the time when the young queen should have been building up her winter bees. 

So when you feed either of two things happen. Either she goes out, gets mated and starts laying eggs or alternatively she has been mated all this time and she just starts laying eggs. I cannot tell you which one is the answer, but I certainly wish I would have started earlier so that I did not spend 2 weeks searching to mark a queen that has not laid a single egg. Marking virgins is not desirable therefore I had to see eggs before I marked her.

Alternatively I had a 5 frame nuc, with 3 drawn out frames. The virgin that was placed there was on a constant syrup feed. From the time that she hatched to the time of first eggs, I think was no more than 4 days, maybe a week. So, make your own conclusions.

Now, this is strictly speculation on my part, but you will notice that if you feed your bees a little bit of syrup, the flying activity outside the hive increases dramatically. You can even stimulate winter clensing flights on a nice day with a little bit of syrup. It might have a similar effect on the queen, either a flow or sugar solution will stimulate her to fly, otherwise she might not have enough energy reserves to fly back to her hive, so why risk it.


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## virginiawolf (Feb 18, 2011)

I'm just guessing... The sugar syrup may be indicating a nectar flow and it tricks the bees into thinking it is spring and there may be drones in the area and it is time to mate. If in reality it is still too cold she might be introuble when she goes out to get mated. Just guessing, VW


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I keep reading that it does, and I keep wondering why that would be so?

Who said it had to be logical? I have no idea of the "why". I only know that is what I, and many others have observed.

"In localities where forage is scarce, some means must be adopted to stimulate the bees and cause the queens to fly when they are not disposed to do so. This can be accomplished by feeding the bees. The nucleus feeder Fig. 13, which I have used for twenty years, will hold one ounce of syrup and is admirably adapted for this purpose. Such colonies as have queens old enough to fly are fed during the forenoon and the queens will fly in the afternoon and generally be fertilized; whereas if they are not fed they will not leave the hives sometimes until a week later."--Henry Alley, The Bee Keepers Handy Book


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

Well thanks guys I was starting to think my memory was failing at the age of 48. I have been pondering why whenever I have made splits with swarm queen cells it has taken so long for them to lay, I have had hardly any that have started laying before 10 days and closer to three weeks has been more common.


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## Ozone (May 24, 2011)

All this being said, it indicates that the queen is very informed as to the activities of the colony.


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## bleta12 (Feb 28, 2007)

Closer we mimic the natural conditions, more successful we will be. In nature matting accompanies swarming, swarming means bounty, lots of food. Starving colonies don't swarm. So the virgin queen emerges in a hive heavy of honey and nectar. Lets not forget that if the weather changes the hive may abort the swarming impulse by destroying the swarm cells. So a lot of selection and decisions have been made by the colony before the time the virgin emerges.

In our queen breading those decisions (hopefully the right ones) are being made from the beekeeper. Feeding of matting nucs is done primary to sustain the small colony which may have been started fresh without no reserves. 
The relation of syrup of nectar flow with matting is old, very old. Matting happens when there is nectar coming. If there is no nectar coming or the weather interrupts it, the bees don't swarm of aboard the swarm. 

Once the virgin emerges she has to mate. The coming of nectar may influence if she emerges at all, not if she mates after emerging.
After she emerges there is still work to do, The bad weather can delay her matting flights up to a month or more, and after that she looses that window and she fails to mate. 
That is the reason that I start my queen rearing in mid May in CT.

Gilman


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

Gilman, I appreciate your thoughts on this around how we should mimic swarm conditions. As I labored over the article on drones in "Bee Culture" this morning the author pointed out that drones mature for a while before they are in peak condition for mating and this made me wonder if queens benefit from waiting a few days before going out on their mating flight versus those that take to the wing earlier. I wonder how we would ever know?


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## bleta12 (Feb 28, 2007)

Adrian, 
Matting happens in Nature when there are plenty of drones in different ages, that is why the main challenge of early queen rearing is not the weather (there always are good flying days in spring) but the low number or lack of sexually matured drones.

Gilman


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