# Guerrilla planting for bees



## Specialkayme

I like your idea WVa, or at least where your heart is. Just make sure you arn't trespassing on private property. The only thing worse than trespassing, would be conversion of property (your planting). And to add insult to injury, now the other person's land is full of your bees! Not a good way to make friends 

But anyway, like I said, on the right plots of abandoned land, with the right seeds, I like where your heart is.

You just need to make sure it's cheap seeds of some kind. Keep in mind that it's likely to get mowed over, or destroyed.


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## 1toomanyhobbies

I like it! Instead of Johnny apple seed, you will be Johnny honey clover! If it is abandoned school property I'd say go over with two garbage bags. One with seed and lime and the other empty. If anyone asks you can say you just wanted to pick up the litter left around the old school. You might even get a kudos!


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## brac

I like the idea also, So one of you seed guys tell us what might actually grow that way, and the best time of year to plant it....


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## WVaBees

Yeah...I would be very careful in the properties I seeded. There is also several area of land that are owned by the town and/or county that go completely un-used so I figured even something like some wildflowers along the edges and some dutch clover in the middle areas wouldn't hurt. Heck...most people around here have lots of the dutch clover in their yards anyways. I know I do and I plan to seed even more. I know it is not the best bee clover but it stays low to the ground and survives most mowing efforts and I see bees on it at my house pretty often.


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## DavesBees

I think you have a great idea but not as a Guerrilla. You have the desire to make a difference and perhaps a golden opportunity. Go to city hall and tell them what you want to do. You can get your name out there as a local beekeeper and perhaps get some swarms because of it. You can find out who owns any vacant lots at city hall as well. Try to get permission from the landowners to put out some seed. You may be able to talk with public works folks and find some places they will let you plant. Roadsides can be town, county, or state and you may find some places to put out seed with their help. Let’s talk plants for a bit. The dutch clover will take care of itself unless everyone mows their grass at the same time. You may be able to broadcast alsike clover or white sweet clover in the grassy area. Coneflower will probably work ok as well. Milkweed is easy to spread around and thistle is great. We really should figure out what will come up in a neglected area. I have an area on my property that I quit mowing I’ll throw out some seeds and see what comes up next year. If it does not have to be field sumac would be great. If buckwheat will come up that is great too. I’m rambling, sorry!


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## BeeCurious

I have had my Guerrilla gardening experience. It didn't yield much but it was fun. 

I would work both sides... The legal route and the Guerrilla Gardening side. One will be good for your repetition, the other will be good for your spirit.


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## Countryboy

Adverse possession folks. In 21 years, you own that property. 

Around here, we try to find ways to keep Canadian thistle from seeding down. 

Just toss handfulls of various seeds. Not all will germinate, but you'll get some that seed down ok.


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## Ardilla

I threw some sweet clover seed in some road ditches this spring. It came up and is blooming right now. It will probably reseed itself for some time...

I will probably get a couple pounds of some other seed next year. The ditches get mowed at most twice a year around here. Usually it is more like once every other year if at all.


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## Specialkayme

Countryboy said:


> Adverse possession folks. In 21 years, you own that property.


I'm afraid it takes a bit more than trespassing on someone else's land, planting some seeds, and walking off.


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## n5odj

For your purposes, I like white clover. It stays fairly short, so is less likely to be mowed. Heck, even if it is mowed, that shouldn't hurt it. I plant white clover in the dead of winter... just toss it around & let the freezing/thawing do the actual planting. It comes up gangbusters in the spring from that.

I got some goldenrod seeds & tossed them along my roadside. They did OK. Watch that stuff though because it gets tall.

Robert in the hills of Tennessee


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## WVaBees

Yeah...white clover is likely what I will plant as far as clover is concern just for the reasons you mentioned. I know it is not the best clover source for bees but better then nothing and that stuff grows all summer around here...even with it being so hot and dry that past couple months. At least that way there is a little something out there for the bees to do. I just need to find a source for the seed in bulk. Not sure if the local feed store would have white clover or not...I don't see it being useful in agriculture as a hay or forage crop so I don't know that they would carry it.


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## WVaBees

Specialkayme said:


> I'm afraid it takes a bit more than trespassing on someone else's land, planting some seeds, and walking off.


I want to say there is something about a using the land as your own and after 10 years you have to post in the local paper for so long and if nothing happens you can apply to the courts to have the land transferred to you as the new owner. Thats in WV anyways.


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## brac

My other thought on this matter is what can I plant ,in this fashion, that will yeild something for the bees in this dearth between the summer and fall flows? After clover and alfafa, and before goldenrod and aster?


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## lisascenic

Plant something native to your area!!!! We don't need more invasive plants messing up the ecosystems.


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## Michael Bush

"Invasive" is another word for "successful". It seems all the good honey plants are "invasive"...


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## WI-beek

I think you have a great idea and instead of guerrilla planting, you should approach the town or city council with the idea of planting for insects and birds on vacant lots. Not only is this a green approach but it could save the township and tax payers money, or at least the illusion the tax payers will save money because they will spend it no matter what, its not there money. But to the point, this is green cause they would not need to mow these lots, or mow as often and this save fuel from being burned which costs money and pollutes the air. If you can talk them into it, you could be appointed as the person who picks the seed to be planted, and best of all the tax payer pays for the seed, not you. I have seen pictures of horrible looking vacant lots in big cities with before and after pics with all the butterflies and birds after they turned a ghetto lot into a small piece of paradise. They would gain popularity with the public and help insure there seats on council, that a good selling point to get there approval.

Brilliant.


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## Specialkayme

WVaBees said:


> I want to say there is something about a using the land as your own and after 10 years you have to post in the local paper for so long and if nothing happens you can apply to the courts to have the land transferred to you as the new owner. Thats in WV anyways.


I get your point. Just keep in mind that you have to actually believe that it's your land, and no one else's due to continuous, uninterrupted usage. In most states, you don't have to post anything in the paper. Once you have been using the land for the statutory period of time, it's yours.

But, it's usually 20 or 21 years until it's yours. It's usually 7 or 10 years if you have color of title, meaning you have a title to the land but it isn't valid.


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## lisascenic

You like Star Thistle honey, do you?


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## ParanoidBeek

In my experience, getting goverment involved in anything is trouble. For example, you may be responsible for bee stings (I understand they won't have a leg to stand on, but who needs that aggrevation), improving a lot which means more taxes for owners. Who knows what someone will try to bother you about. If your plan is to just broadcast some seed, go in and throw it around and walk away while whistling a tune. "No good deed goes unpunished"


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## beehugger

As far as buying seed in bulk, I have used Peaceful Valley before and have been happy with them. Their website is http://www.groworganic.com They have lots of individual clovers, they have buckwheat and they also carry "Good Bug Blend" which is a mix of various clovers, and other nectar and pollen plants. I actually just purchased some but haven't planted it yet. I'm thinking about making another another order and trying out some buckwheat since reading about it on these forums.


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## mrspock

I've never liked GP, for the reason that it may cause someone else to use a pesticide.

Great idea in principle. Excellent idea to choose something spreading like Clover. 

Pick your targets carefully.


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## chillardbee

I've been thinking about overseeding alfalfa along the fence lines of my bee yards and along the ditches and road sides, some might spill into the farmers feild though . anyway, does anyone have experience in overseeding with alfalfa? more then anything I just need to know when the best time would be here in the pacific northwest.


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## Zane

This time of year I'd try buckwheat, I dont plant clover until the "last" snow in spring. Hand broadcasting works ok on both. Use the white or sweet yellow clover for the bee's not the red clover unless you prefer bumble's? Lots of things are seding now so lots of different stuff could be used.


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## Lewjay

Down here, the Highway Dept. puts out crimson clover in the medians of the interstate. I see others where they seed with wildflowers. Anything to improve urban blight is better than what's out there now. I have a piece of 2x6 with spikes driven into it. I drag it behind my mower to rough up the ground and then spread the seed.


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## Skinner Apiaries

Wild Mustard is hardy. They wont kill it unless it stays mowed down and it'll require spray to finish it off. We had one farmer put the screen on his combine for the weedy fields, had 30 gallons of the stuff. I have to ask myself at this point, is this guerilla growing or ecoterrorism lol 

Honestly though, there is alot of land in land banks and the like that isnt suitable for anything anyway


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## EvoFX

Countryboy said:


> Adverse possession folks. In 21 years, you own that property.
> 
> Around here, we try to find ways to keep Canadian thistle from seeding down.
> 
> Just toss handfulls of various seeds. Not all will germinate, but you'll get some that seed down ok.



so just tossing them out and letting the weather and soil do the rest is what your saying? i would be interested in doing this when i get back to the states for sure. i have heard of seed throwing but never really thought that it was actually throwing seeds:doh:


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## virginiawolf

WVa Bees, You inspired me!!!
Great Idea!!! After watching my bees it looks like they fly way far away but I bought some seeds today anyway and will plant them all around. 
Virginia


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## Eek-a-beek

Borage for forage! I cast my vote for planting borage. Of course it gets a bit tall, but it is great for turning neglected wasteland into no-maintenance cropland yielding honey.

http://www.macrolensmastery.com/canon-ef-s60mm-macro/borage-photo/
http://www.finegardening.com/how-to/tips/borage-attracts-bees.aspx
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/5614548/native_wildflowers_to_save_the_bees.html?cat=32
http://gardening.about.com/od/herbsspecificplants1/p/Borage.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borage
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=238744


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## Ted Kretschmann

Let me see?? It seems that chinese tallow has mysteriously spread across parts of Alabama where it never existed before. A few seeds in a mudclod thrown off a bridge along a water course I am told works well. Bull thistle never existed before in Alabama untill it was brought from the Shenandoah valley in Virginia and seeded along very busy road ways by beekeepers. So when it went to seed, the suction from the really big rigs would blow it all over the place. One man's honey plant is another man's invasive species.:no: As far as myself, I plead the fifth. TK


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## Lost Bee

I've heard of guerilla planting. 
Only it's not for the bees. :lpf:


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## BGhoney

I vote also for Borage if it will do good in your area, it reseeds great , looks good, blooms along time and its not hard to get rid of it when you want to..


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## Slow Modem

:doh: It's a shame kudzu isn't a great bee plant.


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## forgeblast

Look at some of the no-till seed for deer. Many have a varity of clover in it. The way I planted it was spring time, when we had some snow on the ground I threw the seed out, this way you can see where it is going, and it came up fine.


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## Michael Bush

> It's a shame kudzu isn't a great bee plant. 

I thought it was... but you wouldn't have to plant it, it will be coming to the area near you soon...

The old story of "how to plant Kudzu" from back in the depression, went like this. You dump the shot out of two shotgun shells. You fill them with Kudzu seed. You go out in the middle of the night so the neighbors don't see you. You put them in a double barrel shotgun and go out to the field. You fire the gun in the direction of the field and run like crazy back to the house to try to outrun the Kuzu.


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## Walliebee

That's a neat story Michael; I've never heard that one before. I have spent a long hot Summer about 15 years ago in Kudzu patches all over the South up to the Mid-atlantic collecting leaf tissue and seeds for research. Honeybee's will work the flowers well if the vines are not under drought conditions. It does make a really nice honey that is purple/amber in color. There are many different colored flowers as well; mauve, purple, white, bicolor are the most common.

www.amjbot.org/content/87/9/1240.abstract
Title:
"Genetic variation in Pueraria lobata (Fabaceae), an introduced, clonal, invasive plant of the southeastern United States"


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## Guest

lisascenic said:


> We don't need more invasive plants messing up the ecosystems.


Honey bees are an invasive species to America, as they did not exist here until brought here from Europe. For that matter, people were an invasive species here, too, but I guess the jury is still out on how well that's working....


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## jeremynj

Not sure if I posted here already. I am tossing clover seed around my town..within a few blocks of my house. Maybe a few of the seeds will make it to flowering.


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## Gypsi

I played "Johnny clover-seed" last week. Took a cloth bag, mixed red clover, white dutch and native wildflower seeds in it, and walked my dogs around areas of open field where last falls weeds are still high. the wildflower seed mix I use seems to do ok for bees based on my observations, and it is pretty drought hardy. I plan to do some more. I got my seeds from Stock Seeds in Nebraska. Reasonable prices, good selection, good service. http://stockseed.com/

Gypsi


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## sqkcrk

I thought you were financially strapped. and you are throwing seed willy nilly hoping it will grow? Confused.


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## Gypsi

I paid for the seed late August or early September. And I am un-strapping myself. Allstate finally paid up, a modest amount about half what my truck was worth, and weather is breaking, so I can work, have work.

Red Clover seed's smallest quantity is 5 lbs. I have 1/3 acre of my own land.

(you must have missed the thread where I said I ordered bees. We have a rumor the drought will end by June 2012 - lake levels are back up somewhat. Now only 8 ft below normal, as opposed to 18 ft below normal)


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## Intheswamp

Kudzu also makes some very nice jelly. The blooms are velvety and purplish with a wonderful grape scent.

As for throwing some clover seed out here and there...I don't see how anybody would be upset about that being as it's a good soil builder, good for grazing (beef/deer), pollinator friendly. Seems most any land owner wouldn't mind having some planted along fence rows here and there....unless it's one of those "scorched earth" owners.<sigh> I bet that if someone asked a farmer about doing that, along with their reason why, that the farmer would be willing to work with them on it.

Ed


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## Gypsi

the lots around me are investment lots. Can't run cattle - not big enough, in city limits. No fences, no utilities, "want to build a house there some day" lots, anything but ragweed is an improvement. I'm not throwing tall seed on neatly mowed lots either. Might pitch some white dutch clover there, after I've seeded the rest of my property. But the stuff that doesn't get mowed might as well get a bit of color.


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## Intheswamp

Yelp, better for a prospective buyer to see a nice patch of white clover growing that scraggly grass..."Hey honey, look, clover! There might be a four-leaf clover in there!!! How cool is that??!!!!". I know, kinda exaggerating a bit, but clover blooms seem to be attractive to most people.

Ed


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## johnblagg

Ive been doing this but usually just on the roadside ...clover and new england asters,and I did get permission to plant a feild next door to me with clover .....and for these just throwing the seed out in fall works


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## sqkcrk

It's a nice idea, but what kind of impact can such planting have on honey produced?


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## Gypsi

I'm not worried about honey production, just keeping bees from starving is a good goal for me, besides which wildflowers look much nicer than Johnson Grass. I have planted a garden and scattered wildflower seed on my unplanted yard areas for years without regard to honey production. 

Nature fills a vacuum. The wildflowers use up nutrient that would otherwise grow Johnson Grass, Dallis Grass, and sandspur. By comparison, which would you want to look at? (and all 3 are tougher to get rid of than most, they laugh at roundup.)

Pooh bear with his head in his honey pot comes to mind, :lookout:


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## sqkcrk

Just to be a stick in the mud, you are going to have to plant a lot of seed to impact whether your hives starve or not. and you are just broadcasting seed, so how much of what you scatter actually take hold and grow?

"Nature abhors a vacuum." Will the seeds you broadcast take hold and displace the grasses you mentioned?

Of course I'd rather look at flowers. I do it all the time. Those that grow on their own.

Knock yourself out. Whatever floats your boat.


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## Gypsi

What doesn't take hold and grow will be eaten by birds - I flow with nature, toss some seeds, and it works for me. I learned some time back, I'm not in charge. I have a surplus of the seeds I'm tossing, about a 20 year supply, not sure I'll live that long, pretty sure the seed won't be any good in 20 years. The seeds won't displace the grasses, but I'm not going to run around digging the weeds off anyone's land but my own. Make it a little prettier, compete with the weeds, yes.

I have a surplus of black oil sunflower seeds too, but not tossing those, the plants get too big and it might annoy the property owners. 

It takes a lot of drops of water to make a stream. Or a river, or an ocean. Small bits of change float my boat.


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## Bee Bliss

One thing that will happen is that even a little bit of seed that grows and roots will in turn grow plants that will produce more seed and more future plants (as well as more food for wildlife). So..... a little bit of seed can end up making a big change over time!


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## twd8711

cmon people what gives you the rite to do anything to another persons property regardless of what good you think you are doing, ask and respect the answer, or maybe you could just go with the mentality of alot of people today who tell me " i didnt know anybody owned this property" .
most people want to help the honey bee and might even want to help, by trespassing and starting plants that were not approved by the landowner will surely not help the honey bee or beekeepers reputation.


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## Gypsi

I don't think a handful of seed in the 10 ft city easement at the base of a telephone pole is going to offend anyone. 

The neighboring properties cheerfully let their 4 ft johnson grass seed my yard - or they did, til I put up a privacy fence.


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## Michael Bush

>I got my seeds from Stock Seeds in Nebraska. Reasonable prices, good selection, good service.

and about three miles from my back door...


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## Gypsi

Too bad they didn't pack a tour of your apiary with my order!


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