# Thymol & mites



## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Check Randy Oliver's site. But remember, if you measure your thymol syrup in Milli-moles, he will claim you are not a beekeeper( a comment I took personal).

Crazy Roland


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Thymomite from Heilyser Technologies is a fine product. It is a strip impregnated with 12g of thymol. Add 1 strip on the top bars, 2 weeks later a second one. Treat when temps are below 90F. works pretty good. Price is reasonable.

You can also add 2 tsp of thymol in the lid of a honey jar. You need a screen of sorts place on the lid to keep the bees from removing the thymol. You would also need an inner cover o there is sufficient room to place the thymol. the bees tend to want to propolize the screen to seal the thymol vapours.

I have tried the former method and not the latter.

Jean-Marc


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## Robbin (May 26, 2013)

Anybody use it in a fogger with FGMO, if so, how much?


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## JSL (Sep 22, 2007)

Larry,

My understanding is that Thymol is a “membrane disruptor”. To me this is like putting soap or salt on an open wound. Mites and insects have soft connective tissue around moving parts that are susceptible.

There are some commercial applications on the market and some homemade applications too.

Joe


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## Serendipidity (Feb 3, 2013)

I intend to use 1 drop Thymol per ounce of FGMO and see how it works.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

jean-marc said:


> Thymomite from Heilyser Technologies is a fine product. It is a strip impregnated with 12g of thymol. Add 1 strip on the top bars, 2 weeks later a second one. Treat when temps are below 90F. works pretty good. Price is reasonable.


I will second that. Bees will tend to propolize it at times but when the conditions are right it's a pretty effective treatment. The big advantage thymol has over Formic is that you aren't "on the clock" before it quits working. Even after an extended period of cold weather, in which few mites are being killed, all it seems to take is a little warm weather to activate it again.


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## mrqb (Jul 17, 2011)

I believe Joe is correct,i use the premade wafers with excellent results. for the first three days u can smell the thymol 100 yds away.


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## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

I will third the comment on the strips fro hieslyer. 

My personal experience, first year we had bees. 24 hr sticky board count turned up one mite. We debated treating at all, but we had strips, so put them in. 24 hours later another count. I lost track of the count somewhere north of a thousand from that same hive.

Year one, all hives survived. Year 2, we put strips into 6 hives. Similar drops, and all survived. This year we put them in all the hives. We put two strips in a double deep, one in a nuc. Two applications on two week spacing.

Are the strips the reason we have had 100% survival when everybody around us is losing hives? I dunno, but not going to try going without them to find out.

Interesting side note, our bees haul them out in the spring.


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## Serendipidity (Feb 3, 2013)

I am also thinking about using a cup of this mixture and soaking paper towels in a zip lock bag then put the paper towels under the inner cover for a lingering effect. The bees will eventually chew it up I think and remove it.


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## mbholl (Dec 16, 2007)

Several years ago a beek from another country was soaking cord (soft rope?) in FGMoil with thymol. Put several inches of rope into hive. (I'll have to search and re-read about it.) I'm also thinking a soft treatment might be beneficial and easier on the hive. We've tried thymol in syrup, no negative effects, didn't notice positive either. Plain FGMO really starts the hive humming, so this might be important part of treatment success. I'll post again if I find the information.


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## RAK (May 2, 2010)

Thymol with fog doesnt work for mites. If it would have worked, many would be using it.


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## Bear's Treasure (Jul 26, 2009)

Use blue shop towels.
12 gr thymol plus 18 gr vegtable oil for each towel.
Multiply by number of towels you need. ( 2 towels per hive )
Use 1 towel 2 weeks apart. Leave the fist towel in the hive when you add the second.
Done this for 5 years now.
Works great. Not to many losses. Around 15%. 
Run 300 hives now.


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## Robbin (May 26, 2013)

Bear's Treasure said:


> Use blue shop towels.
> 12 gr thymol plus 18 gr vegtable oil for each towel.
> Multiply by number of towels you need. ( 2 towels per hive )
> Use 1 towel 2 weeks apart. Leave the fist towel in the hive when you add the second.
> ...


Hi Bear's Treasure,
What kind of thymol do you buy? Do you have a link? I see all kinds on line and at amazon, but I'm not sure what to buy.
Thanks,
Robbin


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## Bear's Treasure (Jul 26, 2009)

We are in Canada.
Food grade Thymol.
I don't know were to get it were you are.
Sorry.


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## Serendipidity (Feb 3, 2013)

ebay.com


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## KiwiMana (Oct 23, 2009)

We have good success with using Api Life Var, which is tymol based product.

It comes in a small biscuit that you break into four pieces, and place on the top bars. You do this for four weeks and then check for mite numbers.


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## Robbin (May 26, 2013)

Is it liquid or crystal?


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## KiwiMana (Oct 23, 2009)

Hi,

Its a small biscuit soaked with the essential oils.

Here is a photo of one of the biscuits:-
http://kiwimana.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/mite-inspection-4-march-05911-1024x768.jpg


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## antonioh (Oct 15, 2014)

Well ...

In EU there are only two authorised (in most of the countries) formulations for thymol : Api Life Var and Thymovar. 

I don´t know how is in US , but here authorised treatments are expensive ( about 5 euro / one treatment / hive), and the use of tymol in crystals or solutions is not allowed.

But... we are stingy and so, new formulations appear... as a domestic formula of Thymovar, with the same results and a lower price. 

Here goes : 

Needed : thymol in crystals, sunflower oil or other frying oil, vermiculite block ( I don´t know how is called in US but here we call it "oasis" and it´s used in flower shops to put NATURAL flowers, as there is another one very similar for artificial flower that is not suitable).

8 g of thymol + 12.5 ml of sunflower oil for hive.

Cut the vermiculite block in slices of 1 cm. You will get "wafers" of about 10.5 X 7.5 X 1 cm.

Crush a little the vermiculite wafer between two planks (not essential but will absorb better the thymol).

Heat the oil to 70º C. 

Remove from stove and add thymol 

Mix until it solves completely 

With a syringe, put carefully 20 ml or the mixture in each vermiculite wafer , without leaking, until it absorbs completely . It should be used immediately , one "wafer" / hive, broken in two or four parts, above the nest and in the periphery of brood (as Thymovar or Api Life Var). 

Repeat in 12 days. In hot weather , a third application is recommended 12 days after the second. 12 to 15 days after the last application, remaining residues should be removed from the hive.

DO THE MIXTURE IN A WELL VENTILATED PLACE .

USE PROTECTION GLOVES AND GOGLES.

BE SURE THAT REGULATIONS IN YOUR COUNTRY ALLOW THIS.


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## antonioh (Oct 15, 2014)

Important to see this, thymol safety data :

http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9927623


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## JoshJames (Jun 12, 2009)

jean-marc said:


> Thymomite from Heilyser Technologies is a fine product. It is a strip impregnated with 12g of thymol. Add 1 strip on the top bars, 2 weeks later a second one. Treat when temps are below 90F. works pretty good. Jean-Marc


Can you elaborate on the effects it has on the hive? I've used apiguard which can greatly affect the brood, sometimes stopping brood laying for a while. We've cut the dosage in half during warmer temps to reduce this effect. I was wondering how the thymol strips you mentioned interact with brood suspension. Is there any suspension of brood laying? If so, how long? I've been looking at using these strips this fall but wanted to find out if they will cut short our fall brood rearing here in florida. Thanks for any info


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

You are going to see a lot of the same issues with thymomite as you will with Apiguard. Some queens may shut down and you may even lose a few here and there. I really like the convenience of the strips and have had good success using them between the boxes in a double placed across the frames and towards the back. We have used half strips with good success if the forecast is for high temps creeping above 90. A repeat application a few weeks later may well get your mite numbers to acceptable levels though some hives just seem determined to propolize them instead of shredding and removing them.


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## Colino (May 28, 2013)

JoshJames said:


> Can you elaborate on the effects it has on the hive? I've used apiguard which can greatly affect the brood, sometimes stopping brood laying for a while. We've cut the dosage in half during warmer temps to reduce this effect. I was wondering how the thymol strips you mentioned interact with brood suspension. Is there any suspension of brood laying? If so, how long? I've been looking at using these strips this fall but wanted to find out if they will cut short our fall brood rearing here in florida. Thanks for any info


Below is some email correspondence I've had with Heinz at Heilsyer Tech. Heinz has been a Beekeeper for about 40 years. Not only does he know the product he sells, he uses it himself and is a patient mentor. Below the quote is an image he sent me on how he treats his hives. 

* Heilyser Technology
Oct 13 at 1:23 PM

Hello Colino, there are many Thymol products on the market.

Thymol is an essential oil and can be a natural part of your honey. Check the internet, pure thyme honey available. There is no MRL on Thymol, the same on oxalic acid and formic acid. If you have Thymol crystals almost the whole year as a mite treatment in your hive (in a tray protected with a screen), you MIGHT taste it. The Thymol in Thymovar or the strips is gone in a few weeks and no problem with your honey. There is a recommendation from the government not to use it during honey flow, this is because of the taste. If somebody has thyme in the garden, or there is a field of thyme in your neighborhood, you will have it in your honey.

I treat early in August because I like to have undamaged and healthy winter bees. Thymol needs the same evaporation temperatures like formic, if it is to cold you waste your money.

The recommended amount of strips or Thymovar works only successful in one or two deeps. With more boxes, the volume is too big and more Thymol is necessary, but Thymol fumes are heavier than air and go down, therefore you should place the product on top of the brood frames. There is nothing to remove, if the Thymol is evaporated, only fabric is left and bees with a good cleaning behavior will shred it.*


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Yes, it's true thymol fumes are heavier than air but if you put the strips directly under the lid you need a rim to allow space for evaporation or a lot of hives will propolize them onto the lid, in effect, sealing them up. I don't have rims or recessed lids but, again, have seen pretty good efficacy when placed in the middle of a double where it is within but on the outer fringes of the cluster. That's where they get the most attention. BTW don't even think of trying to hang them between frames like most other mite control strips.


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## JoshJames (Jun 12, 2009)

Jim, 

I saw that you have tried hopguard 2. In your experience do you think the efficacy was as good as using the thymol strips? And did you have to replace the hopguard 2 strips after 10 days to get a full mite cycle kill?


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

JoshJames said:


> Jim,
> 
> I saw that you have tried hopguard 2. In your experience do you think the efficacy was as good as using the thymol strips? And did you have to replace the hopguard 2 strips after 10 days to get a full mite cycle kill?


Oh man, I was afraid someone would ask me this. Seems like both these products are fickle and follow up monitoring is prudent with both. I saw good results and not so good with each and don't fully understand why. A follow up treatment with thymomite is pretty much mandatory and despite Hopguard 2's claim to being a "one and done" treatment I'll just say don't count on it. Both should be used when it's still warm....but not too warm, though, thymol is a bit more volatile if temps get much over 90 They both kills lots of mites, for sure, but getting control in a large "broody" hive in late summer is a pretty tall order. I really like the look of the hives after Hopguard more so than a thymol treatment because it seems like there is more of a regenerative process going on with lots of frames of eggs and larvae and hygienic activity as opposed to the thymol where queens are more apt to shut down. I tend to think the real "sweet spot" for Hopguard usage is in the spring in a nuc of 4 comb size once a new queen is up and running after a brood break. Much less chance of queen issues with it.


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## Colino (May 28, 2013)

jim lyon said:


> Yes, it's true thymol fumes are heavier than air but if you put the strips directly under the lid you need a rim to allow space for evaporation or a lot of hives will propolize them onto the lid, in effect, sealing them up. I don't have rims or recessed lids but, again, have seen pretty good efficacy when placed in the middle of a double where it is within but on the outer fringes of the cluster. That's where they get the most attention. BTW don't even think of trying to hang them between frames like most other mite control strips.


Hello Jim:
I have some 1" shims, would a 1" shim be too slim Jim to evaporate them? The question is serious, the rhyme is jocularity. 
Colino


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## Leather Jim (Jun 30, 2013)

<I tend to think the real "sweet spot" for Hopguard usage is in the spring in a nuc of 4 comb size once a new queen is up and running after a brood break. Much less chance of queen issues with it.>

Would you use full strips in a four frame nuc?


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

I was looking for the label, found it here for any one that wants to read it.

http://www.michiganbees.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/20140519_HopGuardII-label.pdf


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Colino said:


> Hello Jim:
> I have some 1" shims, would a 1" shim be too slim Jim to evaporate them? The question is serious, the rhyme is jocularity.
> Colino


A 1/4" shim would be too slim. A 1" slat is where it's at. 


Leather Jim said:


> <I tend to think the real "sweet spot" for Hopguard usage is in the spring in a nuc of 4 comb size once a new queen is up and running after a brood break. Much less chance of queen issues with it.>
> 
> Would you use full strips in a four frame nuc?


I used Hopguard on 4 combers last year with no problems. Given the fact that they recommend 2 strips per 10 frames of bees with both Hopguard and Hopguard 2 I wouldn't see a problem. I dont have experience with using them during a queen intro.


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