# Sticky  Building swarm traps



## Nicksotherhoney

Any ideas on baiting it? Used frames?


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## cwoodar0

Wow I need to start building some as well! I have no other apiaries within a mile but hoping for luck! I might set one up at work, since I saw a few honeybees around the building last year. Any tips for placement or how early to put them out?


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## JustBees

i don't "build" a swarm trap, I have stacks of them.

I use my oldest boxes and frames for traps, they have the right smell...
and I won't care much if it gets rustled.

To try with unused gear is much more difficult.
You could spill some wax inside your boxes to make them smell more like home.
Likely Better than a swarm lure.

if you don't have traps out you won't catch anything.


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## Wil-7

Mine are pretty similar to the OP's but I took my info from this gentleman who used to be a beekeeper member of our assoc. here in Ohio. According to the members who have used them, they work well. I built several and gave a couple to my mentor. I do not have any used, dark comb yet, which I hear is the best bait to use so I just melted some beeswax and painted the inside with it. For mine, I have a few deer hunting tree stand set up throughout the tree lines with the traps to face East or South, also a recommendation.Here is the youtube video of the beekeeper I took the information from. Somewhere there is a PDF that you can copy for building these bait hives.
Swarm Trap Construction - YouTube


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## Duck River Honey

I also prefer standard beekeeping equipment. Much simpler, much less storage.


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## Wil-7

Duck River Honey said:


> I also prefer standard beekeeping equipment. Much simpler, much less storage.


Besides the bait hives I built from the YouTube video above, I also seen this video and made a couple bait hives using a medium and a 1x4 board spacer on the bottom. It's a good idea too. We'll see what happens.


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## GregB

Johnwb said:


> Getting underway to having bees this spring by building 5 swarm traps!


I started like this.
Caught nothing.

As soon as switched to used equipment - started reliably having free bees.
Do try old frames with black combs to bait these traps.

Also, as soon as you can, put live bees into these trap and use them as nucs for a season - these will make the traps "used equipment". Of course, this means the traps should be compatible to your standard equipment (which should be a natural thought).


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## Gray Goose

cwoodar0 said:


> Wow I need to start building some as well! I have no other apiaries within a mile but hoping for luck! I might set one up at work, since I saw a few honeybees around the building last year. Any tips for placement or how early to put them out?


I place mine when I see the first Dandelion, Pick them up July 15th
Top of an old truck cab , that doesn't move any more.
If possible face SE, partial shade, in the afternoon, but really any where "can" work
caught a few on the kids swing set platform. Seems off the ground helps.

GG


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## odfrank

I also just use old bee boxes for traps. Making non standard traps is a waste of time and materials, especially ones not made to fit standard frames. I primarily place traps in my apiaries on the stands, so that I don't have to pick them up or move them.


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## Johnwb

Nicksotherhoney said:


> Any ideas on baiting it? Used frames?


Going to use some Swarm Lure and going to build frames, I am starting from scratch so no old frames to load in.


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## Johnwb

GregB said:


> I started like this.
> Caught nothing.
> 
> As soon as switched to used equipment - started reliably having free bees.
> Do try old frames with black combs to bait these traps.
> 
> Also, as soon as you can, put live bees into these trap and use them as nucs for a season - these will make the traps "used equipment". Of course, this means the traps should be compatible to your standard equipment (which should be a natural thought).


Since I have nothing to start with I can not use "old" equipment. So we will see what happens with lure. I am not using Langstrof hives so I am building everything from scratch.


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## Johnwb

Gray Goose said:


> I place mine when I see the first Dandelion, Pick them up July 15th
> Top of an old truck cab , that doesn't move any more.
> If possible face SE, partial shade, in the afternoon, but really any where "can" work
> caught a few on the kids swing set platform. Seems off the ground helps.
> 
> GG


sounds great!


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## Johnwb

odfrank said:


> I also just use old bee boxes for traps. Making non standard traps is a waste of time and materials, especially ones not made to fit standard frames. I primarily place traps in my apiaries on the stands, so that I don't have to pick them up or move them.


making swarm traps that fits your hives is a good move though. Not going to use Langs. just my choice.


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## Gray Goose

Johnwb said:


> making swarm traps that fits your hives is a good move though. Not going to use Langs. just my choice.


Consider getting 1 or 2 packages.
put them in a trap, With frames, Every month move them to a new trap to "season it"
then In the spring when they are dead outs,, you will have several combs for trapping, of the size you like, Or an over wintered colony to split.
Agree with Greg,, rare a swarm moves into , a new wood trap. Unfortunately it takes bees to get bees VIA trapping.
If you know someone using your frame size, attempt to talk them out of a couple. Or have them put splits into your traps for a few weeks. Rubbing old comb on the interior can help, somewhat like a crayon, Sometimes you can talk someone out of a broken frame of old comb. Find a bee group and Just ask, "Any one have a junk old dark comb I can use for trapping" Worst case they think you are odd.,  to some we all are , so no big deal there.

GG


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## GregB

Johnwb said:


> Since I have nothing to start with I can not use "old" equipment. So we will see what happens with lure. I am not using Langstrof hives so I am building everything from scratch.


Try.
Some swear it works for them.
Maybe it depends on the swarm density for a given area.

I contend I had zero success and wasted a whole summer checking on those brand new traps with lure - all for nothing.
I even concluded there were no swarms for taking in my area - boy, was I wrong.

If comes to totally brand new traps - ask around and *even buy* the worst possible equipment/frames/combs (even half-destroyed by the moths!) that no one wants anymore.
What appears to be total junk and crap - works very well to attract swarms.
The worse, the better.

If no luck, buy some propolis, dissolve it in strong alcohol (rubbing alcohol is fine) - apply the solution liberally to the insides of your traps.


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## Johnwb

Gray Goose said:


> Consider getting 1 or 2 packages.
> put them in a trap, With frames, Every month move them to a new trap to "season it"
> then In the spring when they are dead outs,, you will have several combs for trapping, of the size you like, Or an over wintered colony to split.
> Agree with Greg,, rare a swarm moves into , a new wood trap. Unfortunately it takes bees to get bees VIA trapping.
> If you know someone using your frame size, attempt to talk them out of a couple. Or have them put splits into your traps for a few weeks. Rubbing old comb on the interior can help, somewhat like a crayon, Sometimes you can talk someone out of a broken frame of old comb. Find a bee group and Just ask, "Any one have a junk old dark comb I can use for trapping" Worst case they think you are odd.,  to some we all are , so no big deal there.
> 
> GG


I am getting a split from someone in spring, providing theirs overwinter well.
got them build now since work gets a bit crazy in the next few months so I was thinking to put them outside to weather a bit till swarm season. think I know one local person that I could get comb from and fit it to my new frames.


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## Johnwb

GregB said:


> Try.
> Some swear it works for them.
> Maybe it depends on the swarm density for a given area.
> 
> I contend I had zero success and wasted a whole summer checking on those brand new traps with lure - all for nothing.
> I even concluded there were no swarms for taking in my area - boy, was I wrong.
> 
> If comes to totally brand new traps - ask around and *even buy* the worst possible equipment/frames/combs (even half-destroyed by the moths!) that no one wants anymore.
> What appears to be total junk and crap - works very well to attract swarms.
> The worse, the better.
> 
> If no luck, buy some propolis, dissolve it in strong alcohol (rubbing alcohol is fine) - apply the solution liberally to the insides of your traps.


I know of only one hive in our small city of 5,000. I do see lots of bees of many types in my garden and on my heavy flowering apple and pear trees. so I am hoping to get some local ones to move in. getting lure and might get propolis from Dr Leo.


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## JConnolly

My swarm trap with cut plans. Details here:


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## GFWestTexas

Propolis is a great idea, however I would go ask a local keeper, or one in the area. Keep in mind propolis will vary state to state to state and region by region depending on local vegetation. If you are trying for local bees which by your post I assume you are it will make a difference. I make my own swarm lure any more but starting out swarm commander is the best I have found. Best of luck on your traps.


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## Lee Bussy

I see folks say "old boxes" often, but as a new beekeeper with old boxes - how old is old? Some of the boxes I was gifted have been in storage for several years. How long before the "stuff" evaporates?


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## GregB

Lee Bussy said:


> I see folks say "old boxes" often, but as a new beekeeper with old boxes - how old is old? Some of the boxes I was gifted have been in storage for several years. How long before the "stuff" evaporates?


After few seasons the "stuff" indeed evaporates.
3-5 years?
You can tell once the propolis is no longer pliable when warm but rather fragile, it is beyond its prime.

The best "old boxes" are those that have been used the very previous season.
Most of my traps go through usage every season - if not swarms, then I use them for various splitting projects.
This way they are continuously re-primed and irresistible to the bees.


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## Wil-7

I have no option but to use the swarm traps that I built out of new materials. Why? Because I am also new, so I don't have old equipment nor old dark combs to put in them. It just comes down to "I have got to try". My new swarm traps are sitting outside now and taking in all that mother nature can throw at them and maybe the new smell will dissipate somewhat. Might even rub some punk wood all over them and throw on some dirt to boot. Hoping the beeswax coated inside the trap and a dash or two of lemon oil will do the trick.


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## Lee Bussy

I'm going to ask around the local beekeepers and see if anyone has a lump of slumgum they might want to donate. I figure that might be good to rub around in the box.

The area where I am has pretty low nesting availability, but if there are local beekeepers letting swarms issue, that might be to my advantage.


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## Lowcountry Beekeeper

I used 2 full hives for my swarm traps last spring only because they were set up and ready. Just bottom board, top, and deep box. They were new and unused. I got a frame from an old scrap hive from the 90's that had a small amount of crumbly comb still along the edges. I put 1 frame in each deep box combined with half dozen or so drops of lemongrass oil. Maybe it was timing but in 2 weeks I had 2 swarms. The year before I did the same thing but without the used frames from the old hive. That resulted in zero luck. So I'm a firm believer in using something that bees have lived on at some point.


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## Cobbler

I have built 22 swarm traps from new wood. Last year, I had about 150% success rate with these traps that were then in their first or second year. All 6 of the first years traps were successfully. Apparently there are plenty of wild bees in my suburban Portland, Oregon area, but I have no trouble attracting swarms to new traps.
With that said, I do also prepare my traps with supplies you will have trouble obtaining as a yet-to-be beekeeper. I rub down the entire inside with beeswax, and apply propolis tincture to all the corner seams and. Most importantly, I use one frame of old comb. I have never caught a swarm without a good piece of old comb. If you have any way to get your hands on a piece of old comb, I would do it

beyond that, I use LGO on cotton in a baggie. Be careful not to use too much. I have had swarms build on the outside of the trap - I assume because the were overwhelmed by the LGO inside.

Also, I don’t have a lot of spare boxes, so I have only limited experience using old boxes as traps. I have never been successful setting up an old box as a trap. Except, that one time I set up my dead-out hive then ran off to catch a swarm that had moved on by the time I got there. By the time I got home, there was a swarm in my hive. That was cool.


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## joebeewhisperer

JustBees said:


> To try with unused gear is much more difficult.
> You could spill some wax inside your boxes to make them smell more like home.





Wil-7 said:


> I do not have any used, dark comb yet, which I hear is the best bait to use so I just melted some beeswax and painted the inside with it.


I have crock pot of beeswax I use for coating foundations. Bought 4 newly build swarm traps from a friend last year (didn’t have time/inclination to build). I painted the insides (sloppily) with beeswax.

I had a few old combs lying around and put a few foundations in as well.

On baiting, I broke down and bought a bottle of commander stuff which worked fairly well in you keep refreshing it. Reasonably sure lemongrass oil used properly would have similar properties. I accidentally sprayed some on a lid and a swarm hung around the sprayed area.

My only reason for getting thewas to catch swarms I missed from my own hives. One was in a tree 30yd/m from the yard, one was mounted to the shady side of a storage building. The other two never made it off the pallets in the yard.

I think I had at least 1 swarm in each trap and 2in two of them. About 1/2 the swarms (that I’m aware of) landed on nearby sumacs and pines.

My highest entrance was >4’ from the ground. But again, the “luring” and source of bees was already figured out.

Hope it works out for you. The same friend that built these has around 30-40 out every year in a wide area. Last year he told me that 2 other people were running 20+ traps each in his area. But he’s made YouTube videos on swarm trap building and secrets.

Teach a man to fish, and he might catch your bees. 😜🐝


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## Johnwb

joebeewhisperer said:


> I have crock pot of beeswax I use for coating foundations. Bought 4 newly build swarm traps from a friend last year (didn’t have time/inclination to build). I painted the insides (sloppily) with beeswax.
> 
> I had a few old combs lying around and put a few foundations in as well.
> 
> On baiting, I broke down and bought a bottle of commander stuff which worked fairly well in you keep refreshing it. Reasonably sure lemongrass oil used properly would have similar properties. I accidentally sprayed some on a lid and a swarm hung around the sprayed area.
> 
> My only reason for getting thewas to catch swarms I missed from my own hives. One was in a tree 30yd/m from the yard, one was mounted to the shady side of a storage building. The other two never made it off the pallets in the yard.
> 
> I think I had at least 1 swarm in each trap and 2in two of them. About 1/2 the swarms (that I’m aware of) landed on nearby sumacs and pines.
> 
> My highest entrance was >4’ from the ground. But again, the “luring” and source of bees was already figured out.
> 
> Hope it works out for you. The same friend that built these has around 30-40 out every year in a wide area. Last year he told me that 2 other people were running 20+ traps each in his area. But he’s made YouTube videos on swarm trap building and secrets.
> 
> Teach a man to fish, and he might catch your bees. 😜🐝


Don't know about any other hives around town so I am not sure on the population of bees, but know no one else is trapping. so we will see.


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## GregB

Johnwb said:


> Don't know about any other hives around town so I am not sure on the population of bees, but know no one else is trapping. so we will see.


You don't know of other hives because they don't report тo you (as in - they don't have to). 
No one else is trapping - the same thing, they don't have to report to you about their trapping projects.
Like I don't go around the area bragging about my swarm trapping.

The best way to find out - set a trap in your own backyard and be ready to be surprised.
Of course, generous lure around the trap is good to have.


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## Johnwb

GregB said:


> You don't know of other hives because they don't report тo you (as in - they don't have to).
> No one else is trapping - the same thing, they don't have to report to you about their trapping projects.
> Like I don't go around the area bragging about my swarm trapping.
> 
> The best way to find out - set a trap in your own backyard and be ready to be surprised.
> Of course, generous lure around the trap is good to have.


you mean the world doesnt revolve around me and everyone has to tell me everything lol

I totally get what you are saying, however I have done some recon and not sure there is much for bee hives except one friend 5 miles out of town, the one hive a block from work, and an organic farm 15 miles from town.
so heres to bees being around.
thanks for your insight Greg


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## GregB

Johnwb said:


> however I have done some recon


Good - you seem to be getting it.
*Recon *IS the word if you are into the swarms and you just said it.
I love doing the bee-related recon - a snoopy part of this fun gig.


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## Gray Goose

GregB said:


> Good - you seem to be getting it.
> *Recon *IS the word if you are into the swarms and you just said it.
> I love doing the bee-related recon - a snoopy part of this fun gig.


Greg,
I am surprised, i would not have though of you as Snoopy.

@Johnwb be aware in "town" there are bees in wall, roofs, old barns etc. At times no one even is aware.

GG


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## GregB

Gray Goose said:


> Greg,
> I am surprised, i would not have though of you as Snoopy.
> 
> @Johnwb be aware in "town" there are bees in wall, roofs, old barns etc. At times no one even is aware.
> 
> GG



Synonyms for "snoopy"

curious,
inquisitive,
nosy
(or nosey),
prying


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## Johnwb

Gray Goose said:


> Greg,
> I am surprised, i would not have though of you as Snoopy.
> 
> @Johnwb be aware in "town" there are bees in wall, roofs, old barns etc. At times no one even is aware.
> 
> GG


 GG- very true, got to get them in my hives and out of those hiding spots lol


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## Lee Bussy

Johnwb said:


> I have done some recon and not sure there is much for bee hives


If there are bees on flowers, there will be swarms. Or, as one of my instructors said: "If there are trees, there are bees."



GregB said:


> I love doing the bee-related recon - a snoopy part of this fun gig.


Have you done the Google Earth snooping yet? That's fun!


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## GregB

Lee Bussy said:


> Have you done the Google Earth snooping yet? That's fun!


Not really.
Those digital maps don't really give what one needs to know

I generally just drive thru my area and look around.
Given a chance, I like taking alternative routes from A to B.
There is no better way to scout but to actually look at the place.

Once I like a location for any good reason, I then "Google map" it and "Microsoft map" it.
Also I go onto the county portal and snoop out the property lines so I know exactly who should I contact about the place.

However, I do look at the public property maps (not just Google!) but the actual published maps of the props - they often have details Google omits.
This is to find promising spots/secret parking lots/rights of way/public access/etc
Then I go and scout the places out.

So, doing the recon by the way of bush whacking is the most fun.
You know, have your para-military cap on, have your hunting knife along, all that kiddie stuff. LOL


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## joebeewhisperer

The same friend I mentioned before runs a circuit of 21 miles, and only once has found a trap belonging to his mentor who lives close by. They camo traps and have placed them for years on other people's property. You couldn't find them with a search warrant.


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## GregB

joebeewhisperer said:


> The same friend I mentioned before runs a circuit of 21 miles, and only once has found a trap belonging to his mentor who lives close by. The camo traps and have placed them for years on other people's property. You couldn't find them with a search warrant.


There are tons some such properties where the owners never set the foot out of the house.
Heck, you can build a hunting shack on their land - they'll never know. 🤪
Not that I recommend it, but one can get away.

Btw, the power lines pass-ways are another good place to sneak your traps into.

Once I set a trap by the rail - well, it was visible and the place was walked through more often than I thought it was - the trap walked away (oh well, it was just a computer box).


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## joebeewhisperer

Lee Bussy said:


> If there are bees on flowers, there will be swarms. Or, as one of my instructors said: "If there are trees, there are bees."


I know I mentioned it in another post, but our recent trip through the AR desert saw no bee homes, nothing but some small plants, ... which happened to be blooming. My wife would say, “No bees on those flowers.” 😜 Every time we stopped their were ample honeybees on every type of flower.

Once I saw those I realized there is nowhere where temps get above freezing that they can’t survive.

I wonder if there are little bee meetings and societies where they are concerned about us.?. With their hashtags like #savethehumans ?


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## Cobbler

I guess one advantage of all the regulations governing development in my area is that you can’t hardly go a block without having some type of protected wetland or green space. If you put something that looks like a birdhouse in these public spaces, nobody will question your authority. Still, my boxes have a small card on the bottom. It says, “ Honeybee Rescue Station” with my phone number. I have only ever received one phone call. A guy wanted to let me know that a swarm had moved in. There has been very little sign that anyone else has ever even noticed my boxes. Last year someone drew a heart with chalk on one. The year before, another box was tagged with a marker. A few weeks later the lid was popped off and the frames tossed around. However, that box was right in a pot smoking den at eye level. I’ve decide to go just a bit less obvious since then.


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## Lee Bussy

Cobbler said:


> my boxes have a small card on the bottom. It says, “ Honeybee Rescue Station” with my phone number.


That’s borderline brilliance. “Save the bees!” Love it.


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## Johnwb

I like to think of it as situational awareness that most of the population has none of. How many times do we hear "I've never noticed that before today" and all you can do is shake your head. lol We have raptors at my work (birds of prey) and now I notice all the birds and can easily spot them even on the interstate at full speed. 
Different people look at different things and some that's is only their phone......
So keep your heads up and eyes open to the great natural world that we live in.


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## GregB

Johnwb said:


> Different people look at different things and some that's is only their phone......


The computer/phone screen became the window.
Not only sad, but outright harmful and dangerous recent trait.


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## Johnwb

Have all the top bars and side cut for the 30 layens frames that I need to build for the swarm traps.
then its on to building 2 Layens Hives and the 40 frames that I need for those.


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## daddyo1

Wil-7 said:


> Mine are pretty similar to the OP's but I took my info from this gentleman who used to be a beekeeper member of our assoc. here in Ohio. According to the members who have used them, they work well. I built several and gave a couple to my mentor. I do not have any used, dark comb yet, which I hear is the best bait to use so I just melted some beeswax and painted the inside with it. For mine, I have a few deer hunting tree stand set up throughout the tree lines with the traps to face East or South, also a recommendation.Here is the youtube video of the beekeeper I took the information from. Somewhere there is a PDF that you can copy for building these bait hives.
> Swarm Trap Construction - YouTube


Another vote for deer stands!!!!! I do the same thing!!! Works like a champ and easy to climb!!! Easy to get down and 13 swarms caught last year. (I've been spreading the deer stand method to everyone as well)
I work 7 and 7 and travel. I put the swarm in the deer stand and go on my trip. I come home and viola!!! Swarm!
I also paint my traps with melted bees wax and clean frames.


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## Johnwb

daddyo1 said:


> Another vote for deer stands!!!!! I do the same thing!!! Works like a champ and easy to climb!!! Easy to get down and 13 swarms caught last year. (I've been spreading the deer stand method to everyone as well)
> I work 7 and 7 and travel. I put the swarm in the deer stand and go on my trip. I come home and viola!!! Swarm!
> I also paint my traps with melted bees wax and clean frames.


Great to hear about your success!


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## clong

GregB said:


> If comes to totally brand new traps - ask around and *even buy* the worst possible equipment/frames/combs (even half-destroyed by the moths!) that no one wants anymore.
> What appears to be total junk and crap - works very well to attract swarms.
> The worse, the better.
> 
> If no luck, buy some propolis, dissolve it in strong alcohol (rubbing alcohol is fine) - apply the solution liberally to the insides of your traps.


Totally agree. Old, smelly junk works great.

If you make new traps, make sure they will accomodate lang frames. If you can't get old equipment, try to find a beekeeper who harvests wax. Get the leftover gunk and smear it all over the inside of a new trap. A hair dryer or heat gun helps to get it soft enough to smear. I've used this on new swarm traps with great success. One black comb hanging in the box is a plus.


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## Johnwb

clong said:


> Totally agree. Old, smelly junk works great.
> 
> If you make new traps, make sure they will accomodate lang frames. If you can't get old equipment, try to find a beekeeper who harvests wax. Get the leftover gunk and smear it all over the inside of a new trap. A hair dryer or heat gun helps to get it soft enough to smear. I've used this on new swarm traps with great success. One black comb hanging in the box is a plus.


well I am not using lang but rather Layens hives and frames so I build my swarm traps as such.
think I found some old comb, I hope.


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## Johnwb

Traps are all painted and just waiting for some supplies to finish up the frames. doing half with wax foundation and half with a starter strip.


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## Johnwb

wondering when to put out swarm traps? as I dont have any bees yet I really dont know if they are active in our area yet.
Thoughts?


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## Wil-7

I have three in tree stands around the farm right now. I have two more to put up in locations already picked out and tree stands up.


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## Johnwb

I have a few trees scoped out but need to know when.


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## Gray Goose

Johnwb said:


> I have a few trees scoped out but need to know when.


According to @Litsinger when the red bud blooms.
Here in Mich, by the time Dandelions are out.

look here on BS there is a state by state swarm capture thread look at your and nearby states.

GG


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## Litsinger

Gray Goose said:


> According to @Litsinger when the red bud blooms.
> Here in Mich, by the time Dandelions are out.


Read about a new cue today- I'll have to be watching for this one in the future (see attached). For those who are not familiar with Mike Haney, he is a frequent contributor to ABJ and is a really sharp beekeeper.


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## Lee Bussy

What’s the downside, other than potentially needing to re-apply attractant, to putting them out early? When I asked a local group here, the advice was “now” even though the bees are not swarming yet. 

I’ve seen bees sniffing about my swarm boxes, so I know there are bees and I know the boxes are at least interesting. It’s like reinforcement that I have chosen good spots.


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## Wil-7

Lee Bussy said:


> What’s the downside, other than potentially needing to re-apply attractant, to putting them out early? When I asked a local group here, the advice was “now” even though the bees are not swarming yet.
> 
> I’ve seen bees sniffing about my swarm boxes, so I know there are bees and I know the boxes are at least interesting. It’s like reinforcement that I have chosen good spots.


I posed the same question at out meeting last month and the beekeeper across from me said that last year he had swarms in late March so he and another beekeeper said to go ahead and put them out now.. We are in Ohio near Youngstown. I am baiting mine with Lemon Grass oil so my plan is to refresh the scent every couple of weeks or so with a drop or two on a Q-Tip through the entrance. That's my plan anyhow.


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## Johnwb

we have daffodils out but no real bud break on trees yet. so not sure how active they are in our still cold(freezing at night) temps.
Thanks for the advice.


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## Gray Goose

Lee Bussy said:


> What’s the downside, other than potentially needing to re-apply attractant, to putting them out early? When I asked a local group here, the advice was “now” even though the bees are not swarming yet.
> 
> I’ve seen bees sniffing about my swarm boxes, so I know there are bees and I know the boxes are at least interesting. It’s like reinforcement that I have chosen good spots.


not really a down side to a few weeks early.
IMO the upside is early prime swarms.

GG


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## Johnwb

I have my first swarm trap up in a tree!
I have 4 more to get up but the wind is making being on a ladder not very safe..... lol


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## GregB

Johnwb said:


> I have my first swarm trap up in a tree!
> I have 4 more to get up but *the wind is making being on a ladder not very safe*..... lol


This tells me you are climbing too high - discussed enough of that already.
Is falling off the ladder worth it to you?

This is totally unnecessary and bad for your health.


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## Johnwb

GregB said:


> This tells me you are climbing too high - discussed enough of that already.
> Is falling off the ladder worth it to you?
> 
> This is totally unnecessary and bad for your health.
> 
> View attachment 68863


What is a good height range then?


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## GregB

Johnwb said:


> What is a good height range then?


Why, we have discussed this to the death already.
But read this, what not:
Swarm trap height. | Beesource Beekeeping Forums


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## Johnwb

GregB said:


> Why, we have discussed this to the death already.
> But read this, what not:
> Swarm trap height. | Beesource Beekeeping Forums


thanks for the link. havnt been around here long to get to all the great writing.


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## Wil-7

They say experience is the best teacher and that is true in my case. This was my first year in setting out traps and I have some in ladder tree stands that I use for deer hunting. Sure easy up with a rope but now I will need a pully system to lower them to the ground, hate working up high like that. I am not a young paratrooper any longer. A few traps I have positioned high enough to put a small step ladder in the bed of my ATV Yamaha Rhino and climb up to hook it on a nail in the tree. I hurt my back lifting it over my head and ten jumping out of the bed of the Rhino really put a fix on me so weeks later I am hurting pretty good in the back and it killed me doing an inspection on my hive that swarmed already. So, from now on, traps will be no higher then what I can reach and work with both feet planted on the ground. Just not worth it for me to get hurt. Wife is doing all the farm chores and we still have a few stalls to muck out.


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## Gray Goose

Johnwb said:


> thanks for the link. havnt been around here long to get to all the great writing.


John,
my traps were 4 to 5 feet and I did catch 4 last year.
I like being able to not bring a ladder to setup or work them.

GG


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## GregB

Johnwb said:


> What is a good height range then?


I caught 6 swarms last year.

One - on the back porch - so that is about 6 feet above, BUT no climbing there.
5 swarms - ground level (technically, 1-2 feet off the ground).

So review the Beesource's "swarm" sub-forum and survey what people have been doing successfully. Pretty soon you will see successful swarm trapping does not need to be life/health risking occupation. Climbing trees like a bear after bees is just a good sounding myth (in the current context).


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## Johnwb

GregB said:


> I caught 6 swarms last year.
> 
> One - on the back porch - so that is about 6 feet above, BUT no climbing there.
> 5 swarms - ground level (technically, 1-2 feet off the ground).
> 
> So review the Beesource's "swarm" sub-forum and survey what people have been doing successfully. Pretty soon you will see successful swarm trapping does not need to be life/health risking occupation. Climbing trees like a bear after bees is just a good sounding myth (in the current context).


Thanks for all the "learning" lol


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## Johnwb

I have a friend that has one hive on his property. it belongs to someone else, the owner may give me a split here off a different hive.
would there be a benefit to putting a swarm trap on his property just incase they swarm they swarm before the split?


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## AR1

Johnwb said:


> I have a friend that has one hive on his property. it belongs to someone else, the owner may give me a split here off a different hive.
> would there be a benefit to putting a swarm trap on his property just incase they swarm they swarm before the split?


Yes. Anywhere there are healthy colonies there will be swarms, unless someone works very hard to prevent them, and sometimes even then.


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## Gray Goose

Sure
I lost a couple last year so it can happen at unexpected times.

GG


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## Johnwb

Have my 5 swarm traps out finally, might have missed some bees but thats the way life goes. now the weather has reverted from hot summer back to wet cold spring. so not sure what temps and flowers are doing.... lol
I have not seen many bees this spring, not that I am out every day by flowers. I hope that they are going to be active in my area soon!


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## Johnwb

Since I am a new beekeeper I have an empty Layen's hive with some frames with wax foundation and starter strips on others. had some bees visit yesterday, about 100, but came back at 9 pm and they had decided not to move in. when I saw them at 5 pm they where in the hive, on the roof, side, and going in and out. did have the entrance reducers on since it has a round hole and did not want a bird to move in, could I have prevented the swarm from moving in beacuse the queen would not fit? I opened them fully, two of them, when I spotted the bees. Not sure why there was that number of bees and not less scouts or a full swarm..... any thoughts???? @GregB thoughts?
I have 5 swarm traps 1 mile away at my home property that are all empty too.


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## GregB

Johnwb said:


> did have the entrance reducers on since it has a round hole and did not want a bird to move in, could I have prevented the swarm from moving in beacuse the queen would not fit? I opened them fully, two of them, when I spotted the bees. Not sure why there was that number of bees and not less scouts or a full swarm..... any thoughts???? @GregB thoughts?


Entrance reducers?
What is wrong with just stapling 1/2" inch cloth screen to entrances?
That should prevent any bird and most any mice from housing in your trap (while not stopping the queen).

Speaking of the bees there at 5pm and NOT there at 9pm...
It is a pretty common situation and I had similar cases in the very backyard more than once.
Most likely someone somewhere intercepted the inbound swarm and, most importantly, captured the incoming queen. Then the swarm in the progress just aborted mid-way. The queen-less bees would return to their last base (be it a tree branch or the mother hive).

At all times you should realize it is NOT only, the swarm trapper.
Lots of time there is also a beekeeper or a swarm chaser on the other end.


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## daddyo1

Other than the swarm I caught a month ago at my house (First swarm I caught in town) I haven't seen any scout in any traps at my land. It really wasn't until about now I started catching at my land. Last year was really wet here and this year has been really dry.
Like the stock market, sometimes ya just gotta wait through the lows.


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## Johnwb

GregB said:


> Entrance reducers?
> What is wrong with just stapling 1/2" inch cloth screen to entrances?
> That should prevent any bird and most any mice from housing in your trap (while not stopping the queen).
> 
> Speaking of the bees there at 5pm and NOT there at 9pm...
> It is a pretty common situation and I had similar cases in the very backyard more than once.
> Most likely someone somewhere intercepted the inbound swarm and, most importantly, captured the incoming queen. Then the swarm in the progress just aborted mid-way. The queen-less bees would return to their last base (be it a tree branch or the mother hive).
> 
> At all times you should realize it is NOT only, the swarm trapper.
> Lots of time there is also a beekeeper or a swarm chaser on the other end.


I was following Dr leo's plans so the hives have the circular metal disks with the round holes and slots.
the one hole is now open, was not really expecting bees to be there lol

did look around for and swarms in the near trees with no luck. nothing around today, so here is to the next swarm!


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## daddyo1

Johnwb said:


> I was following Dr leo's plans so the hives have the circular metal disks with the round holes and slots.
> the one hole is now open, was not really expecting bees to be there lol
> 
> did look around for and swarms in the near trees with no luck. nothing around today, so here is to the next swarm!


Here Here!!!


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## Johnwb

what is too late to order and install a package of bees?
I have only had the one encounter with the swarm that did not stay and thinking of buying bees for the first year.
not sure if anyone is still selling packages at this time of year anyway.
like lots of the country the weather is all over the place with very heavy rains, not sure how the bees in my area are faring but not to confident that I will find any in my brand new swarm traps.

thoughts?


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## GregB

Johnwb said:


> what is too late to order and install a package of bees?
> I have only had the one encounter with the swarm that did not stay and thinking of buying bees for the first year.
> not sure if anyone is still selling packages at this time of year anyway.
> like lots of the country the weather is all over the place with very heavy rains, not sure how the bees in my area are faring but not to confident that I will find any in my brand new swarm traps.
> 
> thoughts?


#1 - you still have another month ahead of you to catch a swarm (if anything, I'd look at those "brand new swarm traps" and see what can be improved).
#2 - I'd personally make on-demand splits for people as late as late July - not a problem (IF I still have bees to sell off).

Too late now for the bees for sale - it is a popular myth (coming from southern sources who push March/April packages).


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## Johnwb

GregB said:


> #1 - you still have another month ahead of you to catch a swarm (if anything, I'd look at those "brand new swarm traps" and see what can be improved).
> #2 - I'd personally make on-demand splits for people as late as late July - not a problem (IF I still have bees to sell off).
> 
> Too late now for the bees for sale - it is a popular myth (coming from southern sources who push March/April packages).


@GregB do you have any bees to sell?
I will be in your neck of the woods this weekend running a race , but no time or place for bees lol


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## GregB

Johnwb said:


> @GregB do you have any bees to sell?
> I will be in your neck of the woods this weekend running a race , but no time or place for bees lol


You should find out locally (for you) about the bee availability.


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## Johnwb

GregB said:


> You should find out locally (for you) about the bee availability.


that is where the tough part is trying to find some locally.


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## GregB

Johnwb said:


> that is where the tough part is trying to find some locally.


So why can you not reach to Michael Bush (that TF guy) and ask about the bees?
About 2 hour drive from you.
And surely if you search about - there are beekeepers everywhere.
If you'd be a local here, I'd shake you a split onto your frames, not a problem.


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## SeaCucumber

You don't need perfect bees. Requeen next year. I'll get queens from Troy Hall or Mcfarline next year. They're treatment free and 1 state north.

I don't know why cardboard traps aren't popular. Lightweight transportation is important. For a lure, add some edible oil to wax to make it soft enough. Fold in lemongrass.


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## Johnwb

well @GregB I was set to leave on my trip wednesday and went to check my closest swarm trap and behold there were bees!!!
Not sure on their exact move in date but happy they are there.
now my next novice/newbie question is their perment hive is about 2 miles away "as the bee flies" is that too close to move them from the swarm trap to that hive? do I need a secondary location, which I have 12 miles out of town. I do not want to do two moves if one one is needed.
Thoughts?


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## Wil-7

Johnwb said:


> well @GregB I was set to leave on my trip wednesday and went to check my closest swarm trap and behold there were bees!!!
> Not sure on their exact move in date but happy they are there.
> now my next novice/newbie question is their perment hive is about 2 miles away "as the bee flies" is that too close to move them from the swarm trap to that hive? do I need a secondary location, which I have 12 miles out of town. I do not want to do two moves if one one is needed.
> Thoughts?


I caught two swarms from my apiary in traps and just moved them back to the same apiary just a hundred yards away. They are still there.


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## GregB

Johnwb said:


> ........their perment hive is about 2 miles away "as the bee flies" is that too close to move them from the swarm trap to that hive? do I need a secondary location, which I have 12 miles out of town. I do not want to do two moves if one one is needed.
> Thoughts?


I would just move them and force the reorientation and not worry too much of all the minutia.
You will loose 10-20 bees, who cares.


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## Johnwb

thanks @Wil-7 and @GregB 
oh and of course it is the one swarm trap that I placed with a ladder before Greg schooled me.....
SO now I get to get it down , with bees.... lol
glad to be learning from you all after reading so much


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## GregB

Johnwb said:


> thanks @Wil-7 and @GregB
> oh and of course it is the one swarm trap that I placed with a ladder before Greg schooled me.....
> *SO now I get to get it down , with bees.... lol*
> glad to be learning from you all after reading so much


AND - maybe full of honey too!
The thing can as heavy as the death.
Be aware.


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## Johnwb

GregB said:


> AND - maybe full of honey too!
> The thing can as heavy as the death.
> Be aware.


6 laynes frames so we will see what they have harvested in a week. Have one with old comb, two with full sheets of wax foundation, and three with wax starter strips. It will be interesting to see what they like to build on best.


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## Johnwb

well it was an exciting weekend. I have 5 swarm traps out and 4 of them now have bees in them.
two are very active and two have very few bees, don't have time to check on them on the inside yet but just going to let them do there thing and enjoy all the sweet clover in bloom.
I only have 3 layens built so how does one go about combining two smaller swarms? what happens to the second queen, do I have to kill her or will the bees kill off one of the queens?


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## GregB

Johnwb said:


> well it was an exciting weekend. I have 5 swarm traps out and 4 of them now have bees in them.
> ...............
> I only have 3 layens built so how does one go about combining two smaller swarms? what happens to the second queen, do I have to kill her or will the bees kill off one of the queens?


See?
Good thing you did not rush into buying bees. 

Just dump them together and call it done (may want to smoke them well and spray them with sugar water when doing it - just to confuse them).
Bees will handle the queen selection better than you would.


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## Johnwb

GregB said:


> See?
> Good thing you did not rush into buying bees.
> 
> Just dump them together and call it done (may want to smoke them well and spray them with sugar water when doing it - just to confuse them).
> Bees will handle the queen selection better than you would.


the odd weather I am sure had to some with seeing no bees.
for sure thought that they would do a better job themselves then me.
on the two small ones only saw 5-10 bees it seems, lots of crawling over each other and doing circles. Though the first night that it was just scouts, second day same behavior and not many bees. Am I right in thinking its just two small swarms? or save the guessing till I can take the screws out and look in the 2 traps?


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## GregB

Johnwb said:


> on the two small ones only saw 5-10 bees it seems, lots of crawling over each other and doing circles. Though the first night that it was just scouts, second day same behavior and not many bees. Am I right in thinking its just two small swarms?


These are not swarms; leave them alone.
Look inside to be sure.
But a small swarm means at least 1-2 frames of bees,* queen included *(not just 5-10 bees).

Scouts are coming and scouts are leaving.
Could be a hundred today and zero tomorrow.
All normal.


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## Johnwb

the adventure continues.
I'm no @Cobbler, but I'll take my 3 swarm boxes of bees.
moved my first swarm to the full Layens hive late last night.
It was my first time handling bees and everything went very well. got the bees smoked in as they were guarding the entrance to the swarm trap.








I later learned that they were guarding the entrance and making it smaller with propolis because some bird was throwing sticking into the opening. lol
moved 6 frames into the hive, all had some activity on.
the old comb that I had gotten, one piece had slid down and is sitting a bit askew so I will have to remove it or try and straighten it. On one frame that had a full sheet of wax foundation, there is a large hole about 1" that Im not sure if they ate through for a passage because I thought pass through holes were smaller.
there was one piece of comb that was not well attached and was between frams so that fell out, thinking my starter strips are too small beacuse I was being to stingy.
Did look a bit for the queen but more so wanted to just get then in their new home. saw cells with honey and some with pollen. No eggs that I saw but it was dark with a headlamp. and well Im a total newbie.... haha


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## Johnwb

For my two western traps, one is full of bees and one had two bees. So I'm guessing the bees were checking out both swarm traps and chose the north one.


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## AR1

GregB said:


> Scouts are coming and scouts are leaving.
> Could be a hundred today and zero tomorrow.
> All normal.


Scouts have been driving me nuts this summer. Lots of scouts, in 8 different empty hives. They are concentrating on 2 hives, but some are in all of them. I think 2 different sources, as there is some head-butting at the most popular hive.


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## Johnwb

I moved my second colony from the swarm trap to the Layens hive. the box was the first to be moved into and the highest in the tree, before my re-education to swarm trap placement. lol
It was good and HEAVY. very safe getting it down the ladder though.
noticed before moving the swarm trap that these bees were darker in color then the others and they were a bit more protective once the trap was opened. glad I had my gloves and veil on. Used lots of smoke too.
my swarm traps hold 6 layens frames and they had built out on 5 of them very well and where started on the 6 with a 2x2 piece of comb. lots of capped and uncapped honey on the frames. I didn't out rightly see the queen though I know it will take lots of studying for me to be able to find her as a newbie.
But in my rather quick inspection of each frame I did not really notice and capped brood or empty cells being built out for brood. I did not spend lots of time with each frame because they were agitated, it was dark, with headlamps.
SO I will go back to them on Sunday(when I have some down time from work) and do a daytime inspection when the forgers should be out.
Glad they are making honey. but I want them to survive too, but maybe I just missed the brood.


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## GregB

Johnwb said:


> It was good and HEAVY. ........these bees were darker in color then the others and they were a bit more protective once the trap was opened. ........


Told you. 
Good you got the trap down safely.
Consider dropping it - when combined with the bees that are "bit more protective" - you could be in a world of hurt quickly.

The bees sound interesting.
Could be of Russian lineage (some mite resistance).


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## AR1

Johnwb said:


> Glad they are making honey. but I want them to survive too, but maybe I just missed the brood.


New eggs are just tiny white dots on the bottom of cells. Very easy to miss unless specifically looked for in good lighting. Hope for the best!


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## Gray Goose

Johnwb said:


> But in my rather quick inspection of each frame I did not really notice and capped brood or empty cells being built out for brood. I did not spend lots of time with each frame because they were agitated, it was dark, with headlamps.


it would be reasonable to re check them in 15 days.
sometimes a swarm has a virgin and needs mating first, so they will take time to get brood.
However some times the queen is lost durring the swarming so if queen less, a frame of eggs or a combine may be a way out.



Johnwb said:


> I did not spend lots of time with each frame because they were agitated,


queen less bees are more "Agitated" hence my advice.

GG


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## Johnwb

GregB said:


> Told you.
> Good you got the trap down safely.
> Consider dropping it - when combined with the bees that are "bit more protective" - you could be in a world of hurt quickly.
> 
> The bees sound interesting.
> Could be of Russian lineage (some mite resistance).


@GregB I had a metal disk entrance on it so I locked them in before moving the box.


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## Johnwb

Gray Goose said:


> it would be reasonable to re check them in 15 days.
> sometimes a swarm has a virgin and needs mating first, so they will take time to get brood.
> However some times the queen is lost durring the swarming so if queen less, a frame of eggs or a combine may be a way out.
> 
> 
> queen less bees are more "Agitated" hence my advice.
> 
> GG


I only have one other captured swarm so not quite able to do any type of transfer of frames yet.


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## Gray Goose

Johnwb said:


> I only have one other captured swarm so not quite able to do any type of transfer of frames yet.


understood.
in 15 days if you do not have eggs in both I would have a plan B



GG


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## Johnwb

Gray Goose said:


> understood.
> in 15 days if you do not have eggs in both I would have a plan B
> 
> 
> 
> GG


hoping for the best, and I just missed things. Transfering these two swarms was the first time I have ever handled bees. so still have a huge learning curve. As an educator I know there is always lots to learn. Have to other older beekeepers that are not exactly local but one will be in town today so think if he has time is to open the one hive and take a closer look during daylight hours and see what we have to see. there was one piece of old cob that was in the swarm trap that was out of position so hope to straighten it out too.


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## Johnwb

Johnwb said:


> hoping for the best, and I just missed things. Transfering these two swarms was the first time I have ever handled bees. so still have a huge learning curve. As an educator I know there is always lots to learn. Have to other older beekeepers that are not exactly local but one will be in town today so think if he has time is to open the one hive and take a closer look during daylight hours and see what we have to see. there was one piece of old cob that was in the swarm trap that was out of position so hope to straighten it out too.


@Gray Goose I am happy to report the queen has been seen and there are a few full frames of brood!!
super excited to spot the queen my first time as a newbie.


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