# How do you wind down your colonies as the season draws to an end?



## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

I am curious as to how the commercial operations do it. Do you take all supers off all the hives at once? A yard at a time? Do you take all, or leave some on for late season flows?
What raised my curioisity is when I had a handful of hives, I just harvested twice during the season, and then took all off in one go, and spun out everything - no matter how little was in it.
Now I have 18 hives in production (4 handfuls ), and putting all the supers back on doesn't seem to make as much sense. I did a count the other day, and have 55 supers on the hives.
Lastly, when I took off all the boxes in one go I let the bees clean them out; if I did it in stages is their any adverse affect on subsequent honey? In other words, if I took off a third of the supers, and then the bees cleaned them out putting honey into the remaining supers are there any problems with that "recycled honey". Any information gratefully received. When I want to know the most efficient way something is done I like to ask people who make their living doing it. Thanks.


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## johnth78 (May 26, 2012)

I'm intrested too


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

We visit about every 16 days now, was sooner, and take all full supers, replacing with empties. Soon we will not replace, and will end up taking all(except one that goes under the brood chamber) above the brood chamber, full or not. That occours right before feeding time. 

We are about at the tipping point, where the extracted supers get scraped and put away in the warehouse, and not set out again.

Crazy Roland


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

Thanks Roland. I always appreciate your responses.


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## sweetas (Apr 16, 2012)

Spinning out EVERYTHING is not a good idea. Uncapped honey will ferment.

The general thought is a minimum of 75-90% should be capped. 

If selling or giving away your honey you have a responsibility to maintain the quality of your honey for yourself and that of the industry.

If one side of the frame is 75-90% capped and the other side is not capped sufficiently, I will extract on side of the frame and leave the other.

I then put the frame back in the hive.

If the frame is not sufficiently capped and say I want to scrap the frame because it is too black I will extract these frames separately at the end of my general extraction and feed that honey back the bees. 

If you don't want to put the frame back in the hive, extract the frame and feed the bees again.

my thoughts

Geoff


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

Geoff no worries. I spin out everything at the end of the season. What I neglected to mention was that anything remotely moist gets put in my box room with a dehumidifier for long enough to dry it out. I use an electronic refractometer. Quality is important to me.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Adrian: With only 55 boxes out there it sure wouldnt hurt to leave them on until the heat subsides a bit. There is danger of wax moth getting into stored comb.


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

Jim, that is a good point.


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## Sweet to the Soul (Sep 1, 2010)

sweetas said:


> Spinning out EVERYTHING is not a good idea. Uncapped honey will ferment.


 I agree normally, but what if your uncapped honey is testing at 16.5 to 17.1 like ours is this year due to the extremly dry weather?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Sweet to the Soul said:


> I agree normally, but what if your uncapped honey is testing at 16.5 to 17.1 like ours is this year due to the extremly dry weather?


Isn't this another discussion?

How do I wind down my colonies as the season draws to an end? I take the last of the honey supers off, sometime in late September/early October, installing a mite strip during the same visit, leaving the hive either two deeps tall or a deep and a medium. Then, once everything is striped down to Witer size, if I have syrup handy I will feed them here in NY. But usually not.

I transport my hives to SC in October and, if syrup is available, I will feed every hive then. If not, I travel back south in November and feed them then sometimes putting a pollen patty on them that trip or waiting until the next trip in January.

The main focus in looking towards the Fall is trying to balance the honey I take w/ the honey I need to leave to maintain enough stores for the colony to get by on, keeping in mind I will also feed syrup as insurance that they do have enough to eat thru the Winter. Also not taking so much that they intentionally starve.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

I have a question. In my case if I where to remove all the extra boxes I am removing half the space the bees have. As of now that space is packed with bees. How do all those bees fit in half the space? or does the population begin to fall off toward fall?


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## sweetas (Apr 16, 2012)

I do sympathize with you guys and the cold weather. In Perth, Western Australia, we think a cold winter's day is 15 C. We may only get 5 days a year under 5 C. There is generally no need to feed the bees because that are flowers out all year. The flowers generally hold the stocks of honey.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Daniel Y said:


> How do all those bees fit in half the space? or does the population begin to fall off toward fall?


Great question. I have known beeks to leave on a medium super for the bees to go somewhere. In fact if you have too many to fit when you pull all your honey it might be wise to leave a full box of honey for them to eat during the winter months less you plan to agressively feed them during that time.


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## Sweet to the Soul (Sep 1, 2010)

sqkcrk said:


> Isn't this another discussion?QUOTE] Well I guess it could be. I only posted because I did not think it made sense to tell someone winding down for the season to leave uncapped honey just because its uncapped. Thought it might be wise to know the moisture content before deciding to not harvest it. I could be wrong, but that would not be a first either.
> 
> Now leaving uncapped honey for the bees to maybe finish filling or for extra winter stores is not a bad plan either.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Sweet to the Soul said:


> sqkcrk said:
> 
> 
> > Isn't this another discussion?
> ...


Maybe if you're a big outfit and can absorb wet honey into your total mix, but I certainly can't afford to extract wet honey. This is always a tough call in the fall. Last year I extracted everything in the supers and got too much wet honey in the mix. I've had numerous jars blow lids and most all jars are starting to ferment. Fortunately I didn't have a lot of honey last year as I was raising bees.


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## Sweet to the Soul (Sep 1, 2010)

Sorry my mistake, thought this was the commercial beekeeping area.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Sorry, just seemed like high moisture honey discussion dominated what do you do to wind down, my mistake.


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## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

High moisture? Let the Supers sit in the hot room longer....crank up the heat and turn on some fans.


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## max2 (Dec 24, 2009)

sweetas said:


> I do sympathize with you guys and the cold weather. In Perth, Western Australia, we think a cold winter's day is 15 C. We may only get 5 days a year under 5 C. There is generally no need to feed the bees because that are flowers out all year. The flowers generally hold the stocks of honey.


sweetas - did you have to tell them that a cold winters day is 15C? Next thing you will tell them that you have no Varroa OR SHB!:shhhh:


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## Skinner Apiaries (Sep 1, 2009)

Barry said:


> Maybe if you're a big outfit and can absorb wet honey into your total mix, but I certainly can't afford to extract wet honey. This is always a tough call in the fall. Last year I extracted everything in the supers and got too much wet honey in the mix. I've had numerous jars blow lids and most all jars are starting to ferment. Fortunately I didn't have a lot of honey last year as I was raising bees.


yea... you know I extract 75% green and dry it down with fans and dehumidifiers... I dont know why everyone is so afraid of green honey. booga booga. It extacts in the 20's and dries to the teens. I learned some interesting things from the canucks and the floridians. And that's one of em.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Do you have specific drying equipment or are you saying that the extraction process will dry it down this much? I need to know more about these "interesting things" you learned.


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## Skinner Apiaries (Sep 1, 2009)

I'm saying fans, a hot house that is air tight, and dehumidifiers plumbed out will drastically reduce water content of honey. As to specific equipment I know some canucks were using a closed circuit recirculating inline dehumidifier that would work the green honey in bulk tank. As to me, I just leave barrels open. On the flip side, I usually let supers sit a couple days criss cross stacked with the room sealed too. usually I have no beetle problems unless a dehumidifier kicks out.


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## FameFlower (Feb 20, 2012)

I do a mid-summer harvest to tide me over (everyone wants honey) before my end of the season harvest mid-August. At mid-summer harvest I take ONLY capped honey. At big harvest, I separate green honey from capped honey. Depending on my mood: I either spin out all green honey first or not take out frames with less than 50% capped from an apiary but leave it hives (make a full super) and then don't have to feed them. 

While we make money from honey I have to consider the time, resources, and questionable nutrition when it comes to feeding (kinda like breastmilk is best infants, but formula will do (breastmilk = free, and no stuff to clean)... so honey is best for bees, but syrup will do (but costs money and I'll equipment to clean)).


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

a while back when I had a few hundred hives I had brought in a few hundred supers with 22% honey in them. I did not extract them, but left them in my hot room with a dehumidifier on, for about a week or so. I had forgotten about them becasue I had been grain harvesting and when I got back, the honey was not extractable because it was too dry. So I humidified the room for a few days and brought the honey back up to an extractable state. 

Dont be afraid to strip your boxes off in the fall. You can manage your MC in your honey in the honeyhouse and your yard work will proceed on time


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## Skinner Apiaries (Sep 1, 2009)

^^^ Experience. These Canucks are good with short season stuff.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Skinner Apiaries said:


> ^^^ Experience. These Canucks are good with short season stuff.


I'm also betting that they don't have to contend with hive beetles.


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## Ted Kretschmann (Feb 2, 2011)

Nope, Canadians have it made. You leave the honey supers off four days in Alabama before extracting, you have nothing but slime. Harvested honey is extracted within two days tops. With high humidity naturally in the air due to the proximity to the gulf, the quicker the honey is extracted, the lower the moisture content. The supers are then left to be robbed and cleaned by the home yard for two days before returning to them to the yards. This reduces the possibilities of beetles reproducing in wet honey supers that get placed on hives. Once the spring honey is removed, up to four supers on some hives, then two dry clean supers are returned for the cotton and soybean flows at the time of the first round harvest. That is then harvested and one super is returned for the goldenrod and aster flows. A good beekeeper follows his bees up with supering till they peak in population, then he follows them down supering with the downsizing population of bees. After the cotton crop is harvested then we start with treatments. Usually in September. Hopefully the bees will produce enough fall honey to help cut down on the feed bill. This is in a nut shell how this operation winds its season down year after year. TED


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## sweetas (Apr 16, 2012)

Perhaps we should keep it a secret. Here in Western Australia, it could be called a bee paradise, at least while the most nasties are kept out. You are right, No SHB, No verorra, No to a lot of other things. No to snow, 

YES to a mild climate, The world record for honey production was set in WA at Pemberton in the karri forest in about 1954 with over 348 kg (767 lb) over 100 hives in a season. No special pumping. Has I think among the highest average per hive production.

I know in QLD, you have SHB.

Max, don't tell anyone else
GEoff


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## rkereid (Dec 20, 2009)

adamant said:


> For those of you that pull the supers and store them. What's your storage process?


After the bees clean them up, I put them under the shop, open air, out of weather, stacked up on top of each other with each turned 90 degrees from the one below. This allows enough light and air flow to keep the wax moths from showing up. I have never had a problem with moths. And yes, we do have plenty of wax moths when a hive dies down. By the time fall rolls around and we start getting some frosty nights, I stack them tight on top of each other with screen on the bottom and a lid on top of each stack, mostly to keep the mice out.


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