# Oxalic acid treatments



## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

I take that to mean a box. I think the example they are giving assumes a colony with a single box of bees. So, you'd increase your treatment by the number of boxes or "seams" as they give in the example. Here's another cut from the site:



> *THIS IS ALL YOU NEED TO REMEMBER: Apply one time only: 3-5 ml of either 4.2 or 3.2% w:v oxalic acid in 50% sugar syrup per seam of bees as soon as the colony goes broodless.*


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

If you where going to go 50ml per box, I think it would be best to separate the boxes for the drizzle. 
Can't imagine it causing a problem that way.


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

You can easily detect "invasion or immigration" by watching sticky board. 
But you have to be willing to "count mites" (most are not)


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## rkr (Oct 30, 2008)

The mite count on this hive was low all year, 1-1.5 per day on a 5-7 day count.
I counted every 2 weeks or so. Two weeks ago I noticed them dragging deformed bees out and dumping themsee post for details. I was watching the other day and saw mites riding in. Now I have not done a mite count, but seeing 5 mites ride in in 20 min coupled with DWV looks like a bad sign to me. I saw more mites riding in on bees than I saw in any one count all summer. I am going out here in a few minutes to take a look.

RKR


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Max dosage per colony is 50 ml. Otherwise 5 ml per bee space if in a single. In your case divide the 50 ml dose as evenly as possible between the boxes, bees.

Jean-Marc


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

There is a running discussion on bee-l about amounts and methods of appling in last week of nov. and 1st week of dec, would appear to be more than anyone needs to know.

mike syracuse


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## rkr (Oct 30, 2008)

Just got back in. 
It was mites, hundreds and hundreds of them on the sticky/insulation board.
I treated with 3.2% OA today. I had a lot of bees, so I used about 60-70 ml but only about 3-5 ml per seam. I hope it works without damage. 

I found this information on another article in Scientific Beekeeping before I went out:


> I need to do more research as to the importance of hitting both brood chambers, and whether we should stop at 50ml when we have colonies that cover 20-30 frames (so far, I haven’t noticed a problem when we go over 50ml total).link


 I did my best to split it up in proportion with the amount of bees in the seam. Some were chocked full and some were half full. If they had less than half I did not squirt any OA. I had 9 deep seams and 12 medium seams covered with bees in this hive.

We will have to see. I think it was the right choice. With all the mites I saw this hive, it was in deep trouble any way you slice it. The good news is that the drones are finally gone and I did not see any small hive beetles!!

My other hive had maybe 20 total on it's board, so I left them alone. Looks like I will need to buy one more VSH-cross queen this spring.

Wish me luck!!
RKR


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

>The good news is that the drones are finally gone and I did not see any small hive beetles!!
See, there are good things even in bad times 

FYI - After the OA has had chance to do its "thing" (there should be mites falling everday for a while - based on you description), IF you "feel like" making a few more mite counts (just for the fun of it ), in an "ideal" hive in DEC, I expect to find about 1 mite per 24 hrs. If weather is cold, leave the SB for several days to get the count. In cold weather, mites do not fall every day. You may go several days in a row w/o a drop (but there are always mites inside).


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## chillardbee (May 26, 2005)

jean-marc said:


> Max dosage per colony is 50 ml. Otherwise 5 ml per bee space if in a single. In your case divide the 50 ml dose as evenly as possible between the boxes, bees.
> 
> Jean-Marc


 Also a max of 5ml per bee space, meaning 2.5 ml if only half the space is filled. Jean-marc made sense and I practice this in my dribbling that, using a syringe, dribble 5 ml starting from one end of the bee space to the other thus insuring the appropriate treatment for all bees dribbled on. Example- you wouldn't want to dribble 5 ml on bees that fill up half a bee space for that would be like a 10 ml treatment and could potentialy harm your colony.

If you read this JM, do you remember us talking about that?


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## rkr (Oct 30, 2008)

Well heck, there's your problem right there!!!



















This is the result, as of today, of the OA treatment I did on 12-1-09. Thousands of mites and 8 SHBs, the other beetles in the pic' are those Japanese "Lady Beetles".
It is nice today (48 degrees, calm) and the bees are out doing cleansing flights and all looks good. No more deformed wings and they seem perky. Neither hive is in the top body yet sooo....... so good so far.


RKR


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

Thanks for sharing the pics.


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## rainesridgefarm (Sep 4, 2001)

This may be covered somewhere else. I am under the impression that the mite damage has already been done by the time you are broodless and can treat with oxalic acid? Can someone explain this to me?


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## beekuk (Dec 31, 2008)

rainesridgefarm said:


> This may be covered somewhere else. I am under the impression that the mite damage has already been done by the time you are broodless and can treat with oxalic acid? Can someone explain this to me?


Your supposed to carry out a late summer treatment after removing supers,and the bee's are still brooding,with whatever treatment you use, to get rid of the majority of mites,and allow them to rear healthy winter bee's.

Then in mid winter use the oxalic to remove any remaining mites when the bee's are broodless, to give them a good clean start in spring.


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## jdpro5010 (Mar 22, 2007)

You want healthy bees raising healthy bees for winter. If the bees raising your winter bees are not healthy the winter bees will not get enough nutrition and proper care so they are already stressed going into winter. That is why Randy Oliver and others say treating your bees for mites at least three brood cycles before winter is so important. If you don't treat your bees early enough, you may kill the mites but the existing bees are in such a weakened state they will not make it through winter and the bees they are raising are also weakened from improper care and nutrition greatly reducing their chances of survival in the tough winter months.


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## rainesridgefarm (Sep 4, 2001)

That is what I have been doing using mite away II or Apigard. I am glad we cleared this up because the average reader would think just the OA in late fall would be enough. Then there is not young winter cluster to get them through.

thanks


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

>the average reader would think just the OA in late fall would be enough . . .
That's what MOST seem to think (incorrectly) about any "treatment"  Just wait til some problem shows up, then treat just once, then your done. Not true! "Treatment" (I know that's a "bad word" to some) is a "process", a never ending process. The process is TEST, TEST, treat when needed, and test again to confirm results. Then repeat the PROCESS. Test, test, and test so you know WHEN treatment is NEEDED. And ALWAYS test to confirm.
You gota count mites


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## rkr (Oct 30, 2008)

In my situation I had no mite problems all the way up to the end of Aug/first half of Sept. The mite count on this hive was low all year, 1-1.5 per day on a 5-7 day count. Then in Nov. I noticed mites riding in on bees that seemed full of nectar (fat, full, abdomens and heavy flight) about the same time DVW showed up. I think they were robbing out some other (feral) hive. We will have to see if I caught it in time to stem the damage they have done. 

I guess the point of this reply is, even if you keep your mite numbers low all summer, watch them into the fall. The mites don't have to be produced in your hive to do damage.

RKR


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

>I noticed mites riding in on bees that seemed full of nectar (fat, full, abdomens and heavy flight) about the same time DVW showed up. I think they were robbing out some other (feral) hive.
Yes, your bees were robbing another hive, maybe feral, maybe a "managed" hive.

>even if you keep your mite numbers low all summer, watch them into the fall. The mites don't have to be produced in your hive to do damage . . .
Very Good advice, . . . but often forgotten


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