# If gas prices stay low ($2/gal. aver.) what impact will it have for you as a BKPR?



## My-smokepole (Apr 14, 2008)

*Re: If gas prices stay low ($2/gallon average) what impact will it have for you?*

It won't but now if we could get Diesel back down in that range. I would move back to my other van. When the fields are dry. Other wise it is the 4x4


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## MTN-Bees (Jan 27, 2014)

*Re: If gas prices stay low ($2/gallon average) what impact will it have for you?*

It will make visiting our out yards cheaper.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

*Re: If gas prices stay low ($2/gallon average) what impact will it have for you?*

Keep this conversation on beekeeping. I changed the thread title to reflect its focus on beekeeping. Keep it there.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

*Re: If gas prices stay low ($2/gallon average) what impact will it have for you?*

All things being equal honey prices should rise because consumers will have more $ in their pockets. If honey goes up this year bees will go up next year. Then there will be a glut, gas will go up, the economy will crash and the zombies will take over. But predictions are often flawed - especially ones about the future. And all things are never equal.


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## drlonzo (Apr 15, 2014)

*Re: If gas prices stay low ($2/gallon average) what impact will it have for you?*



David LaFerney said:


> All things being equal honey prices should rise because consumers will have more $ in their pockets. If honey goes up this year bees will go up next year.QUOTE]
> 
> You've actually a great point there. It's sort of economics 101. We beekeepers are a cheap bunch when we can be. However, it doesn't change the structure of economics. If the consumers are paying less for gas, it means they have more available to pay for what they actually want. If said desire is more honey for the table then demand increases prices. That price increase drives the pricing for bees higher on all levels. Since the bees have gone up in cost this reason can be held as the reason to keep inflated honey pricing permanent. Then we have to look at the other reasons for higher cost of equipment as well. Equipment prices have gone up and remained there as well due to the increase in people wanting to become beekeepers and buying more equipment, again demand up - prices up.
> 
> And just to think what a few extra dollars in the consumer's hands can do. I won't go as far to say the zombies will take over, but in reality if just 1 of the pieces of the puzzel falls apart, it all comes crashing down. :digging:


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

*Re: If gas prices stay low ($2/gallon average) what impact will it have for you?*

In regards to the honey farm, the fuel price for me doesnt not mean a whole lot. But in regards to the grain and cattle farm, we are clicking our heals. We got a drop last week for 93cents. Its gotta be 5 years since we have seen that price. 
But dealing right now with our fertilzer retailers...and there is no down side to the bulk fert pricing... everything has been made and locked in at the high price... funny how the price can change going up but not down...!


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

*Re: If gas prices stay low ($2/gallon average) what impact will it have for you?*



drlonzo said:


> David LaFerney said:
> 
> 
> > All things being equal honey prices should rise because consumers will have more $ in their pockets. If honey goes up this year bees will go up next year.QUOTE]
> ...


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

Wont affect most beeks as diesel hasnt dropped like gas. Big ripoff. But diesel and trucking is my biggest single cost so it will make usxa little more profitablle


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

We need diesel to drop like gas. But, this is a shell game. People will think that gas prices being down means other things will go down. That is not true until Diesel goes down.


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## beenut46 (Nov 12, 2011)

It means I will use the gas pickup to check outyards as much as I can and leave the diesel one tons at our shop.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

What goes up must come down. So what's down now will eventually go up again.
How long this price will hold depends on how they play the price game. When they
go up I will buy more. When the price is low and continue to bee I will buy 1/2 only. I don't think the
price of gas will affect my beekeeping strategy to allocate my resources somewhere else. Other product price will
offset the lower gas price too.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

The only effect I have seen so far is I got $200.00 knocked off of my transportation bill when my bees were trucked 1,000 miles south back in November. Not even 10%. Otherwise I guess it could make what I do less expensive fuelwise, but I won't do anymore driving than usual just because the price of fuel is lower than it has been.


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

Why is diesel not dropping as much? (re post #10) I thought they would go down together.


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## PeterP (Feb 5, 2014)

Adrian Quiney WI said:


> Why is diesel not dropping as much? (re post #10) I thought they would go down together.


One news item I read stated diesel is similar (manufacturing?) to heating oil. The winter demand for heating oil has offset the reduction in crude price. Demand for diesel/heating oil goes up in winter whereas demand for gas goes up in summer.

Peter


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## Specialkayme (Sep 4, 2005)

I've always viewed gas as an elastic commodity. If gas is $1 per gallon, then jumps up to $3 per gallon, will I visit the bee yard one third as often? Will I purchase one third as much gas? No. When the hives need to be checked, they need to be checked. When I need to go to work, I need to go to work. Regardless of the price of gas.

Gas prices do affect me on the long term scale though. When I buy my next house, will I want it to be closer to my work, or do I mind it being a little further away into the country side? When I purchase my next car, am I going to look for something that has better gas mileage, or more pulling power? When I look for my next outyard, am I willing to drive 20 miles or 40 to get there? Long term gas prices affect these decisions. But monthly or weekly changes have nearly no impact here.

The one place it may have an impact is on the consumer's side. While it doesn't impact my decisions, and doesn't impact my business practices, it may impact the consumer's. Lower gas prices mean more vacations, more willingness to purchase that car they have been putting off for a while, purchasing that larger home that they have been putting off. When gas prices drop 30%, if a family was spending $500 per month in gas (not uncommon), they've "found" $150 in their budget per month. That may be enough of a change to afford the monthly payment on the car or house, or may just put more spending money in their pockets. More money to buy value added products (hand creams, lotions, soaps, candles), more money to buy varietal honeys, but I doubt the volume of honey sales will increase.

I can say that a decrease in gas prices will most likely create a decrease in 401k performance, which may initiate a change in Fed interest rates, which very well could cause another large crash.


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## NeilV (Nov 18, 2006)

Here in the oil patch, its going to mean more unemployed people with no money to splurge on delicious local honey. I don't use much gas pulling around my wagon.


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## liljake83 (Jul 2, 2013)

Adrian Quiney WI said:


> Why is diesel not dropping as much? (re post #10) I thought they would go down together.



I have read that as they always say supply and demand europe has allot of diesel powered vehicles this makes demand high and keeps prices high as well


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## LT (Aug 17, 2006)

Believe me, something else will eat up the difference!


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

In the short term there will be not much of an impact. As long as people not drive up the
demands then price (go hybrids) will be much the same and lower when production maintains. Before any
changes take effect the long term trend has to be established first. Making decision on a short term
basis will have many impacts later on. We are smart enough to know that the price of gas will go up and
down thru out the year. I'll stay on the conservative side just to be safe for now. Just like the weather our
economy is very volatile now.


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

beepro said:


> (go hybrids)


And How many hives can a commercial guy transport on the deck of a hybrid?

Hybrids might be nice for the earth saving one package toting ex hippie crowd but the rest for of us the thing that makes a real difference is cheap fuel. The real winners in this are going to be the folks from Florida who ought to save hundreds of bucks a load each way going to and from the almonds ( at the current fuel price) .


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## RAK (May 2, 2010)

Honey-4-All said:


> And How many hives can a commercial guy transport on the deck of a hybrid?
> 
> Hybrids might be nice for the earth saving one package toting ex hippie crowd but the rest for of us the thing that makes a real difference is cheap fuel. The real winners in this are going to be the folks from Florida who ought to save hundreds of bucks a load each way going to and from the almonds ( at the current fuel price) .


Cheap fuel= more money in truckers pocket. Were still paying the same price for trucking....

Unless you have your own tractors.


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## acbz (Sep 8, 2009)

Diesel is more expensive to refine than gasoline these days because of the Ultra Low Sulfer requirements. That is why it is now more expensive than gasoline. Why do we "need" ultra low sulfer? Because the sulfer poisons the catalyst in your expensive new diesel exhaust filter. Why do we "need" diesel exhaust filters? Ask the EPA. 
To keep this on beekeeping...it will lower hive moving expenses. 
Lower fuel prices are supposedly here to stay for a while as OPEC tries to break the back of the fracking industry.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

PeterP said:


> One news item I read stated diesel is similar (manufacturing?) to heating oil. The winter demand for heating oil has offset the reduction in crude price. Demand for diesel/heating oil goes up in winter whereas demand for gas goes up in summer.
> 
> Peter


also because of the higher prices over seas, and because they have converted more vehicles to diesel, we export much of the diesel, they can ship it and still make more money.
Get the govt. to require 18 wheelers to convert to natural gas and the price would drop:thumbsup:


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

The numbers I have heard are that the ULSD refinement process adds about .10 per gallon and additional taxes average out to about .07 per gallon nationwide. Currently, in our area, there is about a $1.00 per gallon price difference. I guess the price difference is market demand. Diesels trucks sure are nice for hard work and towing but before buying one a buyer needs to decide how badly they really need one. Gas engines are a bit snappier unloaded, per mile fuel costs and warranties are pretty similar (even before the recent fuel price drop) but lots more fuel related problems with diesels, and it seems like they always need a refill of def. The real kicker, though, is to get that extra towing power you are investing almost 9 grand more in upfront costs.......that's currently about 4,500 gallons of gasoline. Gets one thinking dosent it?


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## RAK (May 2, 2010)

Extra 9k worth it if you could get 500k miles out of it.


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## Markt (Feb 8, 2012)

I'm just not sure if fuel is a big enough cost percentage wise in a beekeeping operation to affect the sorts of things a beekeeper does to their hives the way it affects big construction outfits and the like. A better question might be how much would gas (diesel) really have to be per gallon to make you give up your long distance pollination contracts?


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

jim lyon said:


> The numbers I have heard are that the ULSD refinement process adds about .10 per gallon and additional taxes average out to about .07 per gallon nationwide. Currently, in our area, there is about a $1.00 per gallon price difference. I guess the price difference is market demand. Diesels trucks sure are nice for hard work and towing but before buying one a buyer needs to decide how badly they really need one. Gas engines are a bit snappier unloaded, per mile fuel costs and warranties are pretty similar (even before the recent fuel price drop) but lots more fuel related problems with diesels, and it seems like they always need a refill of def. The real kicker, though, is to get that extra towing power you are investing almost 9 grand more in upfront costs.......that's currently about 4,500 gallons of gasoline. Gets one thinking dosent it?


. Jim that is an excellent point. Mone must take into consideration the added expense of the engine. However for me, I like tomstick with diesel. I have over 400k one one truck, 280k on my diesel car, 170k on another diesel truck. Not sure what gas engines do for longevitiy but i personally never had one make 200k miles on a working truck. most kick it at the 150k mark. So then its buy a new vehicle or 4k on new engine.


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## babybee (Mar 23, 2012)

For one ton trucks, we have been buying gas GMC's and have had great luck. They coast to 200000 miles. Basically no maintenance. Either way, do you think you could get 400k out of a new diesel? Most of the beekeepers I know don't let their trucks get past the warranty.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Andy, does GMC make a 550 model (19500 gvw) ?


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

babybee said:


> For one ton trucks, we have been buying gas GMC's and have had great luck. They coast to 200000 miles. Basically no maintenance. Either way, do you think you could get 400k out of a new diesel? Most of the beekeepers I know don't let their trucks get past the warranty.


idk. I dont see why not. I have a 2012 ram 5500 with 38k on it now so ask me in 9 more years. Maybe by then my 400k truck will have 800k on it.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Keith Jarrett said:


> Andy, does GMC make a 550 model (19500 gvw) ?


GM got out of that market a few years ago. They had a good engine with the Duramax but I don't think they ever offered a 4 wheel drive option.


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## babybee (Mar 23, 2012)

Seems like when gm got in their financial problems that their truck line got cut. How on earth can some one drive old trucks around and not get nailed by dot? Or is it that they pick on the guys with newer trucks because they think that they have money??


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

babybee said:


> How on earth can some one drive old trucks around and not get nailed by dot?


nailed for what?


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

babybee said:


> Seems like when gm got in their financial problems that their truck line got cut. How on earth can some one drive old trucks around and not get nailed by dot? Or is it that they pick on the guys with newer trucks because they think that they have money??


keep it maintained and reasobaly clean and good looking. Drive around something that looks like total junk attracts that un needed attention


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## mnbeekeeper (Jun 30, 2010)

. How on earth can some one drive old trucks around and not get nailed by dot? Or is it that they pick on the guys with newer trucks because they think that they have money??[/QUOTE]

bingo!! I drive a 97 ford. never been stopped once. knock on wood. I don't go to cali but to texas. I got the truck with low miles for 5 grand. had to put a clutch in. been the best bee truck money can buy. easy to work on. not so much electronic <stuff><edit by mod> to break. Im actually looking at a clean 97 dodge diesel one ton for my next truck. I think I will hold out as long as I can on buying one of the newer diesel trucks. they are getting way to complicated with all the restrictions. 

I would never buy a gas one ton truck. what a joke!!


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

babybee said:


> Seems like when gm got in their financial problems that their truck line got cut. How on earth can some one drive old trucks around and not get nailed by dot? Or is it that they pick on the guys with newer trucks because they think that they have money??


1997 fl-70 & 1985 ford f7000.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

wrong thread.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

I got pulled in for a full inspection at the scales in my 98 F800 last year. They couldn't find a thing to write me up on.(Well I knew a couple things, but they didn't find them lol)


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Enjoy it while you can
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/08/27/california-hidden-gas-tax/


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## babybee (Mar 23, 2012)

Why is buying a gas one ton a joke?? I buy them because I am cheap, granted, but really a joke? Oh and a should say I have 2 diesel f550's now you wanna talk about a joke. 5 gas one tons all gmc except on Chevy but the same either way. I have spent more on the 2 diesels than the gas trucks. If you want to start talking about larger trucks then I may prefer my diesels but it's close.


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## Allen Martens (Jan 13, 2007)

Got to agree with you BB. Gas 1-tons with regular 8-foot box and 20 ft gooseneck trailers is what I use. Every time consider going diesel I crunch the numbers and come back to gas. If I had a lot of hills to climb I might come to a different conclusion, but the Red River valley where I have my bees is flat as a pancake.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Allen Martens said:


> Got to agree with you BB. .


Me too, just hard to find them used with a 16ft bed.


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## RAK (May 2, 2010)

There have been a few hot shot drivers who have reached 500k on their new powerstrokes w/o any majors problems. Don't know if its b.s or not but the word is out there. With proper maintenance I think everything is possible.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Proper maintenance on the old pwer strokes get them to the 500k mark too. Plenty of dead 7.3l at 90000 or less due to abuse and improper maintenance.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

So gas jobs probably are good in areas where it flat as flat. I have seen some local folks run their gas jobs at extremely high RPMs just to keep it pulling up a hill. Besides everyone knows real trucks dont use spark plugs


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## Davidnewbeeboxbuilder (Oct 6, 2012)

Try some out yards a little futher up in the moutains


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

We run a 1 ton gas with a 454 and 1 ton diesel with a 7.3, both dually's and I like them both but the 7.3 is my truck. Not much maint. on that engine. We converted the diesel to Veg. in 2006 and ran oil for several years very successfully so we ran it for very little cost. Of course now you can't find Vege for under $5/gallon these days. I've yet to get enough weight on or behind the 454 to slow it down and it is what we use for heavy trips or when it absolutely positively has to get there overnight. Loaded and pulling a trailer I can expect to get around 8 miles to the gallon. I love the 7.3 (443 CI) but it can't match the power of the 454, it averages 12 MPG loaded and pulling a trailer. We do 6 trips to SC/year and about 35 to NYC so we burn some fuel. Any extra money I save will likely get put into my Daughters new business.


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

Came home last night after a trip to Washington to visit relatives and pick up a unit of plywood direct from the mill. With the price of oil collapsing the pricing at the stations was all over the board during the trip. Saw diesel over $4 and as paid as low as 2.21 in Oregon. Also saw the widest disparity in fuel pricing in my lifetime in the same town when we filled up in Central Washington. The price price of Diesel on one side of the freeway was $1.20 less where we purchased than at the flying J on the other side. The impact of the price is that I saved almost $150 on this trip compared to if I had purchased the same fuel a year back. :thumbsup:


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## jdmidwest (Jul 9, 2012)

I can toss gas on old equipment instead of used motor oil to burn it.


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