# Just saw these top bar hives using barrel halves on youtube



## PatBeek

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I actually had the idea to do this the other day but it looks like others have beaten me to it.

Have any of you ever seen these before?

I wonder why he created the wire-enclosed area below the hives?....I guess they are actually chicken coops also? 











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## PatBeek




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## PatBeek

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I found a Facebook page on how to construct these - sans the chicken coop area:

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=169351279785887


More information: http://velacreations.com/bees.html

More photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/velacreations/sets/72157622528453587/

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## robherc

I don't see anything inherently _wrong_ with the setup, though I'd personally recommend using the steel barrels; those plastic ones can have one HECK of a smell to them when they're fresh, and it seems to "soak into" just about anything that gets near 'em, especially when they get hot. ...That and of course, there's pretty much no way to make a frame to fit in there for attaching feral comb to (I do a lot of cut-outs)...but still seems quite workable.


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## PatBeek

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robherc, that's a good point about the smell. It would probably have to be shaded somewhat.

I have two free barrels in my garage right now that I was going to use for more rainbarrels, but probably won't. I have enough of those.

I am salivating at the thought of this idea, however.

But as you said, I'll have to figure out a solution to:


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## PatBeek

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My barrels didn't have anything in them but carnuba wax for fruit in their industrial application.

There were no chemicals in them. It was the type that's straight from the trees.

Anyhow, I'm not sure if you meant the smell from the plastic itself or the contents that may have been in the barrels previously.


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## sqkcrk

Just the way the TBHs in Africa were first built. Other than being made from plastic w/ plastic corrugated roofing being plastic, rather than metal the photos look exactly like the first TBHs I saw back in 1984 in Ohio.


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## PatBeek

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My barrel-hive project has officially begun !!!

I've sawed the barrel in half and cut off the top ring on one of the barrels. I have a gentleman who wants one of these on his property and will pay me for it. He will trade goat's milk for me tending the hive also:


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## georgeIDH

PatBeek said:


> .
> Have any of you ever seen these before?
> 
> I wonder why he created the wire-enclosed area below the hives?....I guess they are actually chicken coops also?


Yes, those are my hive/coops.

Was inspired by the idea of chicken tractors to maximize our space utilization and combine the chicken coops with the bee hives. The bees don't seem to be active until after 9am and until about 5pm so plenty of time to do work with the chickens when the bees are not zooming around.

I wrote some posts describing the process of building them and why:
http://www.independencehomestead.com/2012/04/09/building-our-top-bar-hives/
http://www.independencehomestead.com/2012/04/10/bee-hive-add-ons/
http://www.independencehomestead.com/2012/04/10/patriotic-duty-to-raise-chickens/
http://www.independencehomestead.com/2012/04/17/top-bar-barrel-bee-hive-chicken-coops/

I have a lot more pictures available too if anyone is interested or has questions.


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## georgeIDH

robherc said:


> those plastic ones can have one HECK of a smell to them when they're fresh, and it seems to "soak into" just about anything that gets near 'em, especially when they get hot.


We bought these from http://novabarrel.com/ they were totally clean and had no smell at all when we bought them (and they had been sitting in a hot storage locker).

Prior to putting our package bees in the hives I wiped them down with a damp rag and then spread some lemongrass essential oil around, leaving the swab with the oil in the back of the hive on the other side of the divider.




robherc said:


> That and of course, there's pretty much no way to make a frame to fit in there for attaching feral comb to (I do a lot of cut-outs)


After just 3 weeks the bees already have 9 top bars about half filled with comb and 7 of them filled with brood comb. Started with totally clean top bars with just a little melted beeswax brushed on the bottom.


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## robherc

georgeIDH said:


> We bought these from http://novabarrel.com/ they were totally clean and had no smell at all when we bought them (and they had been sitting in a hot storage locker).
> 
> Prior to putting our package bees in the hives I wiped them down with a damp rag and then spread some lemongrass essential oil around, leaving the swab with the oil in the back of the hive on the other side of the divider.


Cool, glad I was wrong there. I'd been imagining some pretty narsty smelling honey & hoping that hadn't happened. 



> After just 3 weeks the bees already have 9 top bars about half filled with comb and 7 of them filled with brood comb. Started with totally clean top bars with just a little melted beeswax brushed on the bottom.


Yeah, I wasn't intending to question the usability as a hive there... guess that comment was more just a talking to myself thing. Meant that I didn't see much way to make it work for my cut-outs as I can't get feral comb to stay put on full-width Top Bars for anything 


BTW, nice comb, and great ingenuity!


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## PatBeek

georgeIDH said:


> Yes, those are my hive/coops.


GREAT !!!! I'm glad you found this thread.

I'm about to dive into the links you provided, but first off just want to make sure you used a 55 gal barrel. That's what I sliced in half already. It just seems such a wide space for top bars to travel across.

Also, do you have any sort of follower board? I would think it would be tricky to make a follower board for this design because of the extra space on the sides of the barrel below the frame width.

Also (and I know I still need to see your links) What exactly is the white attachment you have on the entrance? Is it an entrance reducer and/or landing board.....or?

Thanks so much for your guidance on this.


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## georgeIDH

PatBeek said:


> first off just want to make sure you used a 55 gal barrel. That's what I sliced in half already. It just seems such a wide space for top bars to travel across.


Yes, I believe my top bars are about 24 inches in length (maybe 26). Got the barrel from this place: http://novabarrel.com/



PatBeek said:


> Also, do you have any sort of follower board? I would think it would be tricky to make a follower board for this design because of the extra space on the sides of the barrel below the frame width.


Yes, but I actually drilled a lot of holes in it so the bees can still go through and there are gaps on the edges for bees to pass through. I also did not put top bars on the other side of it, just my plywood cover (under the roof) over the feeder I used with the sugar water. The bees went through and devoured the syrup but did not attempt to make any comb on the plywood cover, they stuck to making comb in the sectioned off area with top bars present.










PatBeek said:


> What exactly is the white attachment you have on the entrance? Is it an entrance reducer and/or landing board.....or?


Yes its an entrance reducer. I painted some designs on each to be different so the bees could use that to help differentiate between the two hives. Its a removable piece of plywood cut in a triangle"ish" shape that I can just drill different size holes in depending on how big I want the entrance to be.

Honestly I don't know how necessary it is yet. The first couple days I didn't even have it installed. I made the whole about 1 inch diameter and reinstalled it recently and they are using it fine still. Hopefully will mitigate chance of stealing allow the bees to protect their entrance better if need arises.


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## PatBeek

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georgeIDH,

MAN, I'm glad you found this thread. And from the looks of it, you only have about 5 posts. How did you find this thread? Have you been lurking on these forums without saying much and then stumbled on this thread? "I gots to know" (quoting Dirty Harry scene)


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## robherc

t: Considering his join date is this month, I'm kinda guessing he caught the thread while doing a Google search to see if anyone'd copied his barrel hive idea yet, then joined so he could enlighten us about his design. 
...Kinda like I started noticing Beesource.com threads coming up everytime I googled ANYTHING to do with bees...read for months, then finally decided I needed to say something in one, so I joined.


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## georgeIDH

PatBeek said:


> .
> How did you find this thread? Have you been lurking on these forums without saying much and then stumbled on this thread?


Just browsing the forum. Our mentor had been recommending the forum for a while but I was too busy building the hive/coops and getting our bees setup to spend time talking about them.

I'm finally getting caught up on all my blog entries about the process and so have a little more time to give back to the community.


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## PatBeek

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Today the person whom I'm building this hive for gave me some 2 x 4s so I could start building it for him. 

I only have the legs done so far:




























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## WVMJ

We are right across the river from you in Jefferson Co WV. I think putting the chickens under the coop might have the added benefit of whenever a small hive beetle larva drops out it will be picked right off once the chickens learn what they are, and all their scratching around under the hive will be sure to dislodge any that make it to the ground? WVMJ


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## PatBeek

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georgeIDH, you just KNEW I was going to be coming back with questions, right?

Regarding the follower board, did you just glue it to the side of the top bar.....or?....(Edit): Just answered my own question from looking at the photo you have on Facebook:










Regarding the slit/screened bottom, how do you feel about it at this point? I know you said you would have made it longer. Also, as far as the screen, do you still stand by that being there as opposed to fully open? Being a newb, I wasn't sure if it would be better to catch the bugs that fall or let them just drop out. I know it's mainly for ventilation, but just seeing what you thought about it all at this point.

Regarding the entrance size, I haven't taken out the original cap yet, but I was debating on whether or not to have it that full size vs just hole-sawing a slightly smaller hole for the purpose you mentioned - protecting against raids. And on the same topic as the entrance, would you recommend I add a landing ramp or just let them tough-it-out and land on the side or right in the entrance? Should I watch out making them TOO comfy? I don't want any welfare bees on my hands.

Do you still feel good about your roof setup? Why didn't you use the tin roof that they have on their design? (Edit): I just read the following from your blog:



> Some guides use tin roof for the top bar hives. I found this rubber based material at Lowes for less than the cost of a tin roof and hopefully will not be as hot to touch to keep the temperature in the hives more manageable.



Should I paint mine mauve or lavender?

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## PatBeek

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*WOW, that's a small entrance with that reducer.* 

Do you still use one that small, or is that for special occasions, such as winter time?


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## PatBeek

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I just thought of another question.

Regarding your plywood cover over the top bars, how has that worked out so far? It seems to me that as the hive expands that you would have to keep resizing boards because you have one that's over the top bars and another over the remaining unused portion that has no top bars.

Please fill us in. 

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## georgeIDH

WVMJ said:


> I think putting the chickens under the coop might have the added benefit of whenever a small hive beetle larva drops out it will be picked right off once the chickens learn what they are, and all their scratching around under the hive will be sure to dislodge any that make it to the ground? WVMJ


I don't know how small the beetle larva are but I have window screening on the bottom of my hives so they may not be able to fall through that. I was certainly thinking along the same lines that chickens would eat dead bees and other things dropped from the hive, but in reality my hive entrance is outside the edge of the chicken coop hardware cloth. 

Really its just a great way to maximize the limited space available in my urban homestead.


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## georgeIDH

PatBeek said:


> Regarding the slit/screened bottom, how do you feel about it at this point? I know you said you would have made it longer. Also, as far as the screen, do you still stand by that being there as opposed to fully open? Being a newb, I wasn't sure if it would be better to catch the bugs that fall or let them just drop out. I know it's mainly for ventilation, but just seeing what you thought about it all at this point.


Well, its only been about 4 weeks so I don't have a lot of different weather conditions and bee hive conditions to make a final judgement. 
I think there certainly should be some sort of screen there unless you make the width of the slit smaller than I did. I think the bees would try to use it as another hive entrance if they could. I say that because the bees are using the the corners of the barrel where the wood frame goes a little beyond the barrel itself as an entrance even though I put a larger whole on my entrance reducer.

Since the hive is so young there have not been any pests that I've seen yet and the only thing left at the bottom of the barrel have been wax crystals.

If I could go back I'd probably put a more course mesh than the window screen I had. So for now its really just a point of ventilation in the hive.




PatBeek said:


> Regarding the entrance size, I haven't taken out the original cap yet, but I was debating on whether or not to have it that full size vs just hole-sawing a slightly smaller hole for the purpose you mentioned - protecting against raids. And on the same topic as the entrance, would you recommend I add a landing ramp or just let them tough-it-out and land on the side or right in the entrance? Should I watch out making them TOO comfy? I don't want any welfare bees on my hands.


I had the full size hole on there for a couple days when I first got the bees. It worked fine, but then I made the entrance in the reducer board larger (1/2" diameter instead of that 1/4" hole). They are using that 1/2" hole just fine, but like I said earlier a lot are also using the top corners near the main entrance as entrances as well. I think its ok though since those are small and defensible as well.

This video shows what I'm talking about with the bees using the corner entrance, it also shows the new larger hole in the entrance reducer I'm using.









PatBeek said:


> Do you still feel good about your roof setup? Why didn't you use the tin roof that they have on their design? (Edit): I just read the following from your blog:


The only thing I would like to do with my roof is add some extra material to the sides. The piece from Lowes was just big enough to be cut in half and barely cover each hive's width. I've noticed when it rains that some water drips back up underneath one side of where I made the cut and is a little uneven and falls on the plywood top bar cover causing it to warp up from the edges. Not sure what impact this has on the bees at this point but I plan on attaching some plastic strip or something to each side to help guide the rain water down off the hive.




PatBeek said:


> Should I paint mine mauve or lavender?


Whatever is appealing to you. I don't think the bees will care.


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## georgeIDH

PatBeek said:


> .
> 
> *WOW, that's a small entrance with that reducer.*
> 
> Do you still use one that small, or is that for special occasions, such as winter time?


I think I addressed this in my last post, but yeah I'll probably make a new one with a hole that small again for winter. Was just part of my learning curve. Figured start small and easily expand it rather than start off too big and lose bees.


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## PatBeek

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georgeIDH - thanks so much for all the info and time.

And you actually have the gears turning in my head regarding the chicken situation, also.

And regarding the screen at the bottom, I think I'm going to do what you suggested - using a more course (or bigger?) screen material which allows debris/mites/bugs to fall out but too small for bees.

Thanks again.


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## mhorowit

I'm still, a bit curious about a chicken tractor.


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## PatBeek

mhorowit said:


> I'm still, a bit curious about a chicken tractor.


A chicken tractor hive or just a chicken tractor?

I spoke with my wife today about the possibility of having hens in our yard. She wasn't opposed to the idea. That's a start.

By the way, georgeIDH - how do your VERY close-by neighbors feel about your setup with the bees and chickens? I know you probably only have female chickens, but still, most people would probably frown-down upon such a fantastic setup. People LOVE Walmart but hate self-sufficiency. 

Anyhow, I'm just jealous of your whole setup. What a coup (or coop) - no pun intended.


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## georgeIDH

PatBeek said:


> By the way, georgeIDH - how do your VERY close-by neighbors feel about your setup with the bees and chickens? I know you probably only have female chickens, but still, most people would probably frown-down upon such a fantastic setup. People LOVE Walmart but hate self-sufficiency.



Chickens are still in our basement growing up to be big enough to go outside.

Our one neighbor has not said anything since we put the bees in and I've seen them out in their yard a lot so they must not be bothered at all.

The bees don't go towards their yard anyway.

Once we get chickens out we'll probably go over with some eggs and honey to introduce what we have


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## PatBeek

Here's an update on my build. I'm almost done. I still need to attach the tin to the roof frame, place screen over the bottom vent, rub beeswax on the inside of barrel, and that's essentially it.

Here's what I did yesterday:


I soaked small nylon rope/twine in beeswax and staple-gunned it down the middle of each top bar:











I got the idea for how to do my follower-board from George's design above (thanks for that and all other ideas):




















Here's a photo with the top bars installed. Luckily the top bars needed to be exactly 2 feet in length (wow), so the 8-foot lengths I bought of the 3/4 x 1 1/2 strips were perfectly split-up into 4 parts with no waste.










Here we have the bottom of the barrel cut for ventilation. I made this cut with a Roto-Zip, and was actually quite a challenge. If you aren't careful, a Roto-Zip can suddenly wander, especially if you have to bend down into something with less-than-optimal grip, etc. I still haven't decided what size screen I am going to place down there. Do I leave enough access for bugs to fall out? But that would potentially leave access for bugs to crawl *IN*. Does anyone have any advice on that?


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## PatBeek

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I decided that since the lengths of these top bars are too long (so it would seem) to flip over and lay on their backs for inspection, I decided to make a stand that holds two top bars with comb.

If you all will notice, I placed the rest-bars slighly lower than the holding arms so as to prevent them sliding off the side. IT'S PURE GENIUS !!!!.............ok, well, maybe not that.

To be honest, I saw that someone else had made a stand on some other site dedicated to a barrel build, so my idea isn't exactly original. I can't remember which site or how they constructed it.


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## georgeIDH

Interesting idea.. 

So far with our inspections we've been able to check everything without a stand. Maybe when the barrels fill up with comb it'd be more useful to have a stand like this though!


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## PatBeek

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I just found the website where they built a stand for top bar inspections:

http://robo.bushkillfarms.com/beekeeping/barrel-top-bar-hive/

*WOW !!*


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## PatBeek

Well, here's the material I was given for the roof.

I had to construct a peak onto the frame because, obviously, banner material isn't rigid like tin:


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## PatBeek

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George IDH - I just happened upon one of your videos doing a search on youtube because I had some concerns about my queen in one of my top bar hives.

Here it is for everyone to see:


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## DarkWolf

Been about a year since this thread was started. Didn't see any sense in posting another thread asking how barrel hives are doing for anyone who'd built one last year, so I thought I'd ask for an update here...  

Anyone out there who's using a barrel hive for a while have any further insight into them, or opinions, or such?

Thanks!


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## antiemm

I have been thinking about building one of these for a while. I'm wondering if anyone using them has had trouble with such large combs detaching from the top bars?


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## DarkWolf

Not sure how deep it'd be if you stick to a 19" bar. You don't need to use the entire half at all. You can use 40% of one side and 40% of the other and then toss the center 20% as scrap. 

But I have not checked out my barrel yet to see how deep a 19" bar would make it. Right now with my other new hive, it'll have 17" by 15" tall or so comb by the time they build it out.. I'm admittedly worried about that height and may end up restricting them or moving them into a new hive (which may be a barrel hive) until I can properly modify this one.

EDIT: Ha... Nooooooooooo way 19" long bars will work. I figure the bars will be at least 24" long or so in order to get enough depth.. With a 19" bar, the depth of the comb would be around 3"...


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## PatBeek

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I'm still trying to get some free bees (from swarm or cut-out) to place in my barrel hive. I wish I had something to report, but not yet.

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## robherc

Pat, would you like me to send you a vial of "artificial swarm pheromone" to bait your barrel-hive with? If so, pm me your exact addy & I'll get a few drops of it made up & find a way to ship it to you...I've had pretty good luck with receiving "surprise bees" in boxes that I've put a few drops of the stuff on the comb guides while getting ready to put other bees in the box


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## sqkcrk

Forgot I already Posted something.


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## DarkWolf

??


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## PatBeek

robherc said:


> Pat, would you like me to send you a vial of "artificial swarm pheromone" to bait your barrel-hive with? If so, pm me your exact addy & I'll get a few drops of it made up & find a way to ship it to you...I've had pretty good luck with receiving "surprise bees" in boxes that I've put a few drops of the stuff on the comb guides while getting ready to put other bees in the box


Hmmm,

So it's even better that lemongrass oil, comb and beeswax combined?

I have all that in the hive, although I haven't refreshed it lately. It's at my farmer friend's place 18 miles from here. 

But yes, if you have better luck with your concoction than all the above listed, then yes, I'd be interested, sir.


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## robherc

Well, it's hard to beat old brood comb...and if you're already using that, plus LGO, then I don't think using the "artificial pheromone" (that's really just LGO with a dab of geranium oil, and a hint of lemon oil) is likely to beat your current setup by much. As opposed to ONLY using LGO, however, I feel like it works measurably better in an empty box devoid of established comb


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## iraqvet08

georgeIDH said:


> We bought these from http://novabarrel.com/ they were totally clean and had no smell at all when we bought them (and they had been sitting in a hot storage locker).


Hi, would u mind sharing your design with me? I have a bad back and am looking for ways to design "back-friendly hives". I was building a Warre but choose to primarily use KTBH and TBH. I will probably still make a mini Warre just to have an unbiased experiment. Thanks.


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## WildmanWilson

Was wondering since the plastic barrel is so thin, is there an issue with it getting colder inside during bad winters?


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## jwcarlson

This is an old thread, and the builder GeorgeIDH seems to indicate the bees died before winter happened. Is anyone overwintering barrel hives where it gets cold? I'd honestly be worried about the heat. I have compost in one of the blue barrels and it gets too hot to hold your had on in the sun.


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## D1here

iraqvet08 said:


> Hi, would u mind sharing your design with me? I have a bad back and am looking for ways to design "back-friendly hives". I was building a Warre but choose to primarily use KTBH and TBH. I will probably still make a mini Warre just to have an unbiased experiment. Thanks.




though its not his EXACT hive this would be the same build

http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-your-own-Honey-Cow-Top-Bar-Bee-Hive/


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## PatBeek

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ok


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## Snookie

Don't know about all dat...but I got a couple baited and standing by for tenants:}








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## J-Rat

Looks like you have all bases covered. tbh,lang.,and half barrel. LOL.


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## PatBeek

Lol, that's great !

I love individualism like that.


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## Snookie

J-Rat said:


> Looks like you have all bases covered. tbh,lang.,and half barrel. LOL.


Thanks, not counting the (6) religious and non religious swarm traps/apartments I got lurking all over Lizard Creek as well...Keeping my fingers crossed and my wallet open should some tenants arrive lol








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