# Wax moths and advisability of replacing hive



## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

First, I have to thank Bejay from chat for helping me get a handle on my little disaster. The only bee left in my hive was the queen, and she took off after I opened it. But the comb was far from wiped out, even though I harvested about half a gallon of wax moth larvae and pupae to feed my hens.

Second, I don't have a big enough freezer, the foundations with the wax comb on them were plastic, so I'm drowning the wax moth larva I couldn't pick off. My hens will eat well. I planned to just set the hive back up empty in the morning, maybe with some lemongrass oil. Mine was the only hive around here, that's why I got it. I see bees all over my flowers and ponds, thought maybe they'd move back in, if I got lucky.

After midnight I found a text from the beekeeper I bought the year old feral hive from. She's sorry, if I can run out to her place I can pick up another hive. I'm thinking, with bees. Now, I know I have wax moth in the area, although these won't be hatching, there weren't many adults in the hive. And it is 100 degrees outside. How advisable is it for me to go pick up that hive and set it up under my shade tree? 

On the bright side, I only found about a dozen small black ants in the hive. One battle I won.

I'll check email in the morning. I need sleep. Thank you for your wisdom. I'm a super-novice beekeeper. 

Gypsi


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## psisk (Jul 21, 2011)

Probably your first problem is putting the in the shade. Second you probably need to inspect more often. Wax moths hate light. Fire ants will clean up the combs for you very nicely and they can be then place back with the bees. Wax moth infestation doesnt happen over night and is a symptom rather than a cause. Something weakened the hive and allow the wax moths to get a foot hold. Ask your mentor for help in finding the root cause of the problem.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

Well, we have 100+ temps, probably will have another month or two of them, which is why my mentor told me to put the hive in the shade of a deciduous tree. Sun for our hard winter, shade for our hard summer. I think the weakening was probably the ant invasion of a month ago, up until then the bees were doing well. I was a chicken, (a busy chicken, I run a small business), didn't want to open the hive when I was available to do so. Which was in the dark, maybe not the best time to see anything. So I dusted everything with cinnamon. My thanks to Michael on this site for his ant-guard pic. Mine are a bit different, but went on before I set the hive back up this morning. I used peanut butter jar lids, wide, 1 1/2 inch pvc couplings, with an olive oil moat. I used window screen squares at the top tilted down to help keep bees out of the oil, and cd's on top of the screening. It's working, my little moats have ants in them. the cd's resting against the bottom of the hive do not provide any ant that makes it up the pvc and onto the window screen a foothold. 

I did find 4 small black beetles, hive beetles? in the water I soaked the foundations in when I removed them this morning and reassembled the hive. I sunk them well, so all critters aboard drowned. I went out this morning to inspect my work and found bees inspecting the wooden portions of the hive where I'd set them on the hood of my truck. So I put the hive back together, and this evening I came home to check out the ant guards and my other handiwork. 

There are a few bees moving in and out of the hive. Any honey was dissolved in the stock tank when I soaked the foundations but if they are robbers they are doing a careful inspection while inside. If I find worm bodies on the front porch I'll assume that some bees have set up housekeeping. 

Since the beekeeper I got the hive from loses about 2 hives a year to wax moth (didn't learn that til this morning), and offered me a different hive, stocked, if I'll pick it up and return this one, I'm not sure she is the best mentor. I may take her up on it, since perhaps this queen was weak and old, and since I do want to continue the hobby. But I am waiting a week. If my hive is occupied next Friday, with bees and a queen, I'm not swapping. I was removing wax moth larva until 2:30 this morning. 
I need sleep.


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## frazzledfozzle (May 26, 2010)

are you sure it's wax moth and not small hive beetle? half a gallon of wax moth lavae would mean your frames would be totally stuffed and riddled with thick cobwebbing stuff is this what it's like? we get wax moth here but even in a severely infested hive I would never get half a gallon of lavae


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Wax moths leave webs and little black pieces of poop. More webs than worms. SHB leave slime and the are a lot of worms and no webs... not to mention the spikes on the SHB larvae. Do a search online and I'm sure you can find a lot of pictures of both.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

The more I read, and after watching the SHB video on youtube on a different thread, the more I think I had SHB. I did not see one beetle until after I had dismantled the hive, I found 4 beetles in the water I'd soaked the frame in. LOTS of larvae. There were a few webs from wax moth, and a couple of actual moths, but those itty bitty beetles makes those HUGE grubs? I've got work this morning, but I will be searching for id photos sometime this weekend. Now there was a lot of black poop visible from the entry of the hive, on the floor. That and no bees visible were why I opened the hive. I did see living wax moths and have a bit of flossy web. But both took the hive out. And SHB can take out a HEALTHY hive in a week? (per the youtube video)

Just found the larva pics linked from a forestry service on another thread. I had spun cocoons in the hive - lots of them in the top super, which had no honey or comb at all, those would be the wax moth larva according to the forestry service site. But I also had shb larva, that was the greater volume on worms. They were down in the combs, I picked what I could without further destroying the comb, and dunked the rest. My hens totally consumed the evidence, that bunch won't be living to reproduce. (I took no chances, penned 6 hens in the run with the contents of my bucket, shb larva, and wax moth cocoons.)

I moved the hive since it is unoccupied. A friend told me if I moved the hive 6 feet my bees would get lost on the way home. Well, no bees, so I moved it. It will still have afternoon shade, but it will have full sun for at least 7 or 8 hours a day. Guessing that will help with future moth infestations.


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## psisk (Jul 21, 2011)

I keep my hives here in Florida in full sun 24/7/365 with no problems. The bees will keep it cool as they want it. I do use screen bottom boards though. The SHBs have a problem dealing with the heat and dry ground around the hives and the wax moths dont like all the sunshine. It helps but isnt "the" answer as you have to have a healthy population and manage the space.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

Well I've had a lot of cruising bees around the empty hive after I set it back up. There remain maybe one or 2 dead larva per foundation frame, stuck in the wax, but it doesn't stink. BTW - How large are SHB larva? Because most of the worms I found were over an inch long. Anyway, status report.

On Friday I set the hive back up, at the edge of the shade of the elm, which means 6 to 8 hours sunlight at this time of year, afternoon shade. Ground is pure sand, no clay, very dry. We have a major drought. 

Saturday morning there were a lot of bees checking out the hive, so before I left for work, I put a bit of hotwater/honey feed mix in my feeder, and put it on the hive. The jar was empty when I got home with my baby granddaughter. I still saw activity at the hive late Sunday afternoon, so I dug out my little bottle of lemongrass oil, put on a bee suit, and opened the hive. No one is living inside. a couple of blackened worms remain. No odor. So I put a bit of lemongrass oil near the center of the hive on the foundation top of the deep, and again top of the first super, and closed it up. If no bees move in by Friday I'm going to take my local beekeeper up on a hive swap. If some bees move in, I'd settle for a lot less work and a couple of pounds of honey. Because I sure won't be harvesting any this year. Pic of my ant trap attached. And I still want to know how large shb larva get.


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## fish_stix (May 17, 2009)

Full grown SHB larva are approximately 1/2" long. Look at the next to last pic of the next post down from yours for a perfect shot of them. I could put some in an envelope and mail them to you if you like, we have plenty of extras down here.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

I'll pass on the samples. I know I had wax moths as well, I had larva over an inch long, whatever, it was absolutely a nasty mess, and all my hive cleaning has gone to waste, those bees are not coming back. Going to swap for a stocked hive, from the same source, feral bees, on Thursday. I think I will be adding a thing or 2. Like an inner lid, inside screening inside the top, possibly a screened bottom and most definitely some shb traps of some kind. I really like the cd case one actually. 

And my little ant trap up there has the slippery side of a cd facing down between the window screen and the hive bottom. Window screen needs to be bigger though, I found a bee drowned in oil... just one of the robber bees checking the hive for left overs, but all the same need to prevent missed landings from being fatal.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

I widened the screen bee-guards over the oil saucers that keep the ants out of the hive, and with some misgivings set up my replacement hive, not in full sun, but where it will have shade from about 1 pm on. (formerly my hive was against the 2 foot trunk of an elm tree, and it never got sun). I and my friend, another newbie beekeeper, inspected, no sign of moths, no sign of beetles. presently no beetle trap and no ventilation chamber at the top, just a red lid. I think I need to get it ventilated pretty quickly, although there are a couple of holes near the bottom of the deep that may do the job. It was 108 here today. I am feeding the bees. I have flowers, but with the drought, mine and one neighbor's are the only flowers for some distance, and all crops have burned up in the heat. Wish me luck. Hints, tips, and "did you think of?"s are welcome. I do not want another dead hive.


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