# Got an email from new customer this morning - did trap-out this afternoon



## JClark

Nice video. Pardon my ignorance but how is this supposed to work? Seems you are just excluding returning foragers from re-entering the hive. Is that the point--you get a bunch of workers and the hive starves then you prevent re-entry for new swarms--or did you do a cut-out previously of this hive?

Guess I could search and read up on trap-outs but I thought the point was to get the hive to eventually move into a box you can move (just my assumption) but I can't see how the queen would get from the wall into your box. I think there is more here that I'm not getting.


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## Detroit Bees

JClark, I'm with you...there has to be more to this trick than meets the eye. 

Clearly the bees are being drawn out of the nest and the screen cone provides a way out, but not a way back in. 

I wonder how long this entire process took? And is there some kind of attractant in the wood "hive" to draw the bees in? Clearly they started going in and I guess they all did eventually?

Please tell us more!


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## PatBeek

.

Those are great questions.

Well, although I SHOULD have brood/eggs to place in the bait hive, I don't. I'm a new bee keeper and I'm trying to get free bees from doing trap-outs and/or cut-outs. However, I did hang some old comb I had inside the top bar hive and I also placed some lemongrass oil in the bait-hive which mimics the queen's pheromone. Optimally, the bees would go in and raise a new queen from a batch of brood/eggs, but since I didn't have that, I am going to hope the queen wanders out after she realizes most of the other bees have left her. I have heard others say that they have gotten that to work.....we'll see.

Regardless, it's late in the season, and even here in Florida, these bees would be hard-pressed to survive. The homeowner was probably going to have them sprayed anyhow and she didn't want the wall smashed. This was pretty-much the only alternative.

But yes, I'm new at this, but ONE day I'll be an expert. You gotta start somewhere, folks.

.


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## brooksbeefarm

The queen rarley comes out,anyway i've never had one to. Yes, you can combine the bees you trap out to another hive, but the home owner will still have a problem. The smell of dying rotting brood and bees, honey dripping out of the comb and running down the inside wall, drawing ants and other insects and rodents. I have found that a complete cutout in homes are a better way to go than a trapout, but it's hard to get the home owner to go along with it.Of course it depends on how long the colony has been there.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr

PatBeek... Quote.... ( I am going to hope the queen wanders out after she realizes most of the other bees have left her)

Send me an e-mail [email protected] and I will send you info on a trapping system so you can raise your expectations of getting the queen quickly. I will also send color photos of traps in progress to show how the system works. You can build, very easily, everything you need. No charge for the info. I do it to help beekeepers.

Brooksbeefarm. I get the queen virtually every time. Most others do also. With my system you will get the queen, unless the brood nest is too far from the entrance, or, you don't catch her in the trap when she is on the comb. At any rate, if she comes into the trap and lays in your drawn comb, and returns to the feral source, you will have her eggs, you can then move the frames and start a new colony from her eggs,(they will make a queen) then continue trapping until you deplete the feral colony of honey and bees, then she will come into the trap. Colony gone, you have the queen.

Cutout is the way to go if you can, but for whatever reason you can't, then get the queen and get the bees. And yes, a trapout without removal of comb will result in insects etc entering and removing any honey and also is an invitation for SHB and Wax Moths to move in, then next year a swarm will move in, clean the mess, and start another colony in the same place you just removed them from.

cchoganjr


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## JClark

Patbeek,

I figured you were working w/in the constraints of the situation--just wanted to be sure. A cinder-block wall is definitely not an ideal cut-out situation.

Cleo, I'll send an e-mail too as I am interested in the info mentioned above. If my hives swarm next season like my first hive did this spring I may have to re-collect some from other folks' houses at some point. And I thought I was only going to have one hive! Suspect that this winter may actually test my abilities though (last winter never really happened here).


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## EastSideBuzz

Queen is going to stay in and then you will have a dead out in the wall, Ants roaches, mice etc in that wall. You need to get at the chamber and get them cleaned out. You might have to break a brick or two. Go in from the inside etc. That screen thingy you have is clever but, not practical. You will only get the ones that leave the hive and the nurse bee's and queen will not leave and you wont get the honey out. Leaving wax behind is ok but, you need the honey out.

Now if you wait long enough they will all die. You could Co2 them kill them off and have a hive outside to rob out the honey. Then all you will have left is smelly brood. That smell will go away after a few months when it all drys out. Maybe you could heat the wall and it will cause them to dry out quicker after all the honey has been robbed out. But, you will have a project and mess if you don't do it right.

I just got paid $500 to remove a hive behind siding on a historic house and they were happy to pay it. They put the siding back up. Price the work accordingly of course.


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## PatBeek

.

Well, since the wall is cinder block, I'm not too sure how much invading and stinking there will be once the hole is sealed up. The cinder blocks are sealed on both the inside and outside. Again, I don't see how it would cause much of a stink or insects once it's sealed at the lamp hole. Please correct me if I'm wrong.....I'm not trying to be a [email protected]$$ or anything like that.

Oh yes, and the most the lady agreed to pay before I even came out was $100.00. I'm not going to smash a wall for just $100.00.

.


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## PatBeek

.

Oh, would you all look at how sweet this setup has turned out to be. Much, much better than my first attempt:


*Here's the trap-out cone. It's pretty much empty of any bees. No passage-ways they've eaten through or any disasters like that:*










*And check out the new home they have populated. Anyone want to wager the queen has also come out?*


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## odfrank

This gets the "Most Frugal Trapout" award for 2012.


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## JClark

Let us know if you got the queen in there. Would have never thunk it. Congrats!


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## PatBeek

Yeah, I'm Texas right now, so I can't confirm. But thanks.

That hive needs to stay there another week-or-two anyhow to account for any hangers-on (including the queen) which may still be in the wall.

By the way, does this count as a bee-removal? I mean, they are removing THEMSELVES, technically. Florida seems to have adopted a no-cut-out policy 
of which they are supposedly clamping down on. It shouldn't be illegal to place a cone on the outside of a house, right? I was just trying to protect the light fixture from rain - - yeah, that's the ticket. (sorry about the old catch-phrase). If bees are in your house, it shouldn't be illegal to be able to do work on the OUTside of the house.


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## PatBeek

odfrank said:


> This gets the "Most Frugal Trapout" award for 2012.


Hmmmmmm, should I take that as a compliment...or?

Hey, are you jealous of that trap-hive I nailed together with spare wood?

Next time I'll do a Cadillac trap-out......the DELUXE treatment. 

.


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## PatBeek

.

And by the way, it looks to me from the photo (the customer snapped it for me.......I've been out-of-state for weeks) that they are bearding
on the outside bottom of the hive to cool off.

They aren't trying to build comb underneath the entrance, are they? 

Please don't tell me they are festooning down there when they have a perfectly good nailed-together-with-trash-wood-hive of which they can build comb on the inside.


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## shannonswyatt

What is that you have nailed on top for a outer cover? An old piece of tarp? I would think think that it would get too hot inside and be to moist if that is the case. Or is it some kind of breathable material?


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## Lburou

Good job! 

I would be surprised to hear that the queen is out of the wall though. Here is why. When colonies have sickness where the bees fly away or otherwie die away from the hive, the queen is often found with a few workers on the combs where she presides over her own death.


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## PatBeek

Lburou said:


> Good job!
> 
> I would be surprised to hear that the queen is out of the wall though. Here is why. When colonies have sickness where the bees fly away or otherwie die away from the hive, the queen is often found with a few workers on the combs where she presides over her own death.


Hmmm, that may be very well true. However, the bees haven't exactly absconded. They are just right next door in a new flat. I would bet that the queen may somehow get a communique' that her crew is just right outside her palace and go check out what's going on. I could be wrong. I will say that I've heard others testify here that they've gotten the queen to come out. I'm sure it's a very hit-or-miss proposition. To be honest, I don't really expect to get her, but it would be a huge bonus.


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## shannonswyatt

You may want to check out the way that Mr. Hogan does it. He would attach a flange to the wall that and then have have a hole in the hive body to have the bees fly through, effectively building a hive around them, versus having them go to the new hive. Then putting the brood in the hive after a few days and springing the trap, at which time they can't go back into the old hive. You still may not get the queen though. 

What is that you are using for your hive cover?


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## PatBeek

shannonswyatt said:


> What is that you are using for your hive cover?


Yes, it's tarp material. The real roof is at a farmer's house where I used that hive up in between two trees as a bait hive for swarms. The roof wouldn't fit on it up in the trees, of which I found out after I nailed the wood stand up in the trees. So I improvised really quick with some tarp material he had. Anyhow, to make a long story short - I wouldn't trust the original roof for picking up a trap hive full of bees anyhow, because it doesn't seal good enough. I want that roof sealed TIGHT for the evening I come screen'-off the front holes and throw the thing in my van.


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## PatBeek

.

Here's the original roof, of which I have covered it with tarp material just on the very top and around the edges.

It's what I will use when the hive is at my house in normal operating mode:


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## shannonswyatt

Ha! I'm planning on putting out some top bar swarm traps in the spring. I've mostly finished construction on them so I should be good to go. I figured for the successful ones I would just put an extension clamp across the top of the bars and tighten it up. I figured that should do the trick, particularly since I would probably use my truck for transport. I have a hatchback, so transporting bees in the car could get exciting rather quickly. 

I'm thinking about just using a piece of coraplast for the roof of the swarm traps, and stapling it to the top of the hive (not the bars, but the ends). I think that should work. I was also thinking about using some tyvec, but with this being a political year I think I should be able to come up with some free signs.


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## PatBeek

shannonswyatt said:


> ............... but with this being a political year I think I should be able to come up with some free signs.



Yeah, a Ron Paul or Gary Johnson sign would look GREAT on a hive, come to think of it !!!


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## shannonswyatt

Ha! I was thinking a sign that says Hope on it would be appropriate! Someone else can have the change!


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## PatBeek

.

Here's a video I dug up from the archives of this same trap-out (just placed it on youtube tonight). 

It has a good shot of a bunch of bees exiting the cone.

Towards the end of the video, one of them feisty sisters gets a little too close for comfort. I had to kind of get away and possibly mash it from my neck/facial area. For now, I just have a pullover veil that I wear a hooded rain jacket over. If you aren't careful, they can maneuver their way in.

Anyhow, here's the video:


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## Mr.Beeman

Nice video Pat.
Just be patient, you will be rewarded. I have done many trap outs with pretty much the same scenario. One colony had been in the wall for two years. The homeowners did not want me to demo anything and insisted the bees just moved in a month or so prior. I recieved a call from them two days later to get the dripping honey out of the wall! lol I reunited the bees to their hive (via cut out) and it is the strongest hive I have. I was lucky enough to capture all the queens with the exception of one. The queen may not of even existed in that one. (That's my story and I'm sticking to it). 
Keep us in the loop.


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## PatBeek

Mr.Beeman said:


> Nice video Pat.
> I was lucky enough to capture all the queens with the exception of one. The queen may not of even existed in that one. (That's my story and I'm sticking to it).


Can you elaborate more on what you mean by that? So the hive had multiple queens? ( I know that's possible). How would you know if you didn't get one of the queens? That's what has me mostly confused.

OHHHHHH, I think I know what you mean now..............You mean the queens in each of the different trap-outs. I thought you meant in the same trap-out.

NEVERMIND............


So the ones you DID catch the queen, did you have brood/eggs in the trap-out already? I know that isn't really a factor to make the queen emerge, but I'm just making sure that the workers didn't raise a new queen of which you THOUGHT she came out.

So you're saying the queen emerged from the abandoned hive and went into the trap-out in similar setups as I have?

Thanks.


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## PatBeek

.

I'm still out-of-state and can't pick up my bait hive of which this thread is based on.

So I wrote the girl the other day to see if wverything is still ok and if my wife can come pick them up in the evening (to make sure the bees will all be inside the hive) and if she has the money - AND if she's mad or anything like that.

Well here's her email What she said caught me by surprise regarding the bees:



> Thanks Patrick. I'm working on getting the money.
> Your wife can come get the new hive whenever. Although there are always bees on the outside at night... I think it might not be big enough for all of them?


YIKES !!!

Why would the bees be hanging around outside at night?

Could there really be that many bees from this trap-out to where they can't all fit in it?

Is it because they are Africanized and that's just what they do - - even at night?

Anyhow, I asked her to take a photo of the hive at night and send it to me. This oughtta be interesting.

.

.


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## Mr.Beeman

Pat,
I didn't have anything in the nuc when I performed the trap out. No brood, comb, honey, lemon grass oil,... nothing.
Queen followed the rest of the bees. Maybe I'm just lucky with bees!


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## PatBeek

.


Well, my customer sent me a picture tonight of my trap-out taken at about 11:20 pm - - LONG after the sun went down.

This situation has kind of caught me off guard.

Looks like my plan to have my wife move the bees at night has backfired.

I'm a thousand miles away and this will have to wait 'til I get back.

So does anyone have any idea of why they'd be hanging out of the hive like this, even at night?










.


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## shannonswyatt

PatBeek said:


> .
> 
> So does anyone have any idea of why they'd be hanging out of the hive like this, even at night?


Just a guess, but i would say either space or heat, and I'm leaning towards heart, since the top of the hive cant vent due to the tarp trapping heat in.


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## PatBeek

shannonswyatt said:


> Just a guess, but i would say either space or heat, and I'm leaning towards heat, since the top of the hive cant vent due to the tarp trapping heat in.


Well what about when bees live in a tree with just a single hole they go in? Are tree hives cool inside?

But I agree, it's most-likely a heat issue. I suppose it's possible they could have no room.

So what about the Africanized factor? Could that be just what they do - IF - in fact - they are Africanized?

.


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## JClark

PatBeek said:


> So what about the Africanized factor? Could that be just what they do - IF - in fact - they are Africanized?


Just a thought, but you probably would have found out they were africanized when you were putting the contraption up. If they didn't chase you for a mile then I would assume that they are not africanized (at least not a lot).


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## shannonswyatt

Yes, trees do not have AC units either, but they also probably breath a bit better than a tarp. That is why I asked you before about the top. I assume that the days down your way are a bit warmer than up here. Again, heat is just a guess. It would be great if it is just an issue with space, that would mean you have a nice size hive. Then again, that is just a nuc.


My dad has a hive that bearded up on the front of the hive all spring/summer long. But come to think of it they are **** mean, maybe they are africanized!


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## Mr.Beeman

Oh.... you would have known RIGHT AWAY if they were africanized. There would be no doubt in your mind. They are just bearding due to the heat.
They will be there when you get back.


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## PatBeek

I appreciate all the input.

I won't know 'til I get back.

But yes, some of them were pursuing me around the corner to the driveway when I first took the light fixtire down from their hole and and placing the cone on. But hey, that's how bees are SUPPOSED to act. I'm not troubled by it at all. That's what suits are for.


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## PatBeek

Does anyone in Florida want to volunteer to go pick up my bees from this lady's house in Winter Haven, FL? I'm still stuck in Texas on a nightmarish project that keeps dragging on and on and on and on and on. I just emailed the owner of the house the other day and asked her if the bees were still hanging outside the hive at night - even though the weather has gotten cooler in Florida - and she confirmed that they WERE still on the outside at night. She said she'd be patient until I got back, but would rather have them gone.

Anyone want to help a bee-brutha out? I will clean out your hives of AFB and wax moths with my tongue for the next two years if you can help me out................or something like that.

.


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## Mr.Beeman

Send me the airfare there and back and I'll gladly do it for ya Pat! lol
They will be fine until you can collect them. Seems like the lady is starting to enjoy the whole experience.


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## PatBeek

.

ok - YOU'RE ON !!!!

Then you get to get groped and radiated by TSA as well......but I'm not compensating you for that nightmare !!!

As for as her "enjoying" the experience, well, she's TOLERATING it, perhaps. :/


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## PatBeek

.

Soooooooooooooo, once upon a time, in late-September, I did a trap-out for a nice young lady in Florida. Little did I know I'd be away from home for about 3-4 months working in Texas.

Well, I was able to fly-in for a break in the project and hopefully spend a week-or-two here in Florida.

I FINALLY PICKED UP THE TRAP-OUT !!!!!

I went to her house yesterday evening while all the bees were inside and calm. I placed a piece of duct tape over the three holes and put the hive in the trunk. I also got my trap-out cone off her house, of course. No issues whatsoever.

Here's a photo of them making themselves at home at their NEW home in my backyard. I still need to get a proper stand for them, especially one that won't expand in the hot sun and make the hive uneven. I also need to take that temp roof off and place the real roof on. There's no telling what kind of hive mess I will find when I pop some of those top bars out. But one thing is for certain, the queen must have come out of the trapped-out hive and into my hive because it's been at least three months and the hive is thriving.....or at least seems to be because there are a lot of bees flying around.

I placed them right by my screened-in patio so me and the kids can have a front-row seat to the entrance of the hive. It's a poor-man's observation hive, I guess you could say:


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## shannonswyatt

PatBeek said:


> .
> 
> Here's a photo of them making themselves at home at their NEW home in my backyard. I still need to get a proper stand for them, especially one that won't expand in the hot sun and make the hive uneven. I also need to take that temp roof off and place the real roof on. There's no telling what kind of hive mess I will find when I pop some of those top bars out. But one thing is for certain, the queen must have come out of the trapped-out hive and into my hive because it's been at least three months and the hive is thriving.....or at least seems to be because there are a lot of bees flying around.



Sweet! Get someone to take photos for you when you do open it. I'm curious as to how well they pulled comb with no assistance. I've been following this thread for so long I feel like those are my bees!


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## PatBeek

shannonswyatt said:


> Sweet! Get someone to take photos for you when you do open it. I'm curious as to how well they pulled comb with no assistance. I've been following this thread for so long I feel like those are my bees!


That makes me feel warm all over. What a great group of people all you beeks are.:w

Yes, I will document the occasion to the best of my ability and plaster it all here as soon as I can.


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## Mr.Beeman

See.... told you they would be there waiting for you! lol

Document the occasion well with vids and pics.
I like vids and pics.


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## PatBeek

Mr.Beeman said:


> See.... told you they would be there waiting for you! lol
> 
> Document the occasion well with vids and pics.
> I like vids and pics.


Yeah, my wife is getting batteries for the REAL camera tonight. My cell phone takes pretty good pics and vids, but it just isn't the same as a real camera, as yáll well know.

Tonight I have a lot of staples to pull out of that the tarp material I have on it right now. I won't be removing actual top bars until the daylight, though. I just want the real roof on it tonight. I'd rather pull all those staples out with the bees in for the night.


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## shannonswyatt

I guess that is my problem. My phone does take better pictures than my camera!


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## PatBeek

Mr.Beeman said:


> See.... told you they would be there waiting for you! lol


Well, to be honest, when the lady told me via email a few days ago (while I was still in Texas) that they were still alive, I was a tad shocked. I was expecting that the queen didn't make it out and that they wouldn't have enough momentum (even with the queen) to survive through the winter. But, the winter here in FL has been mild (ok, quit laughing all you northerners). The queen coming out of a trap-out is a risky proposition, but looks like she made it. And no, (as I mentioned previously) I didn't place brood/eggs in there to start off the trap-out because I didn't have any at the time.


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## PatBeek

Well, good news and bad news.

The bad news is I just saw evidence that this hive is probably infected with wax moths.

The good news is, "my" bees are very defensive of this hive because I saw two of them wrestling and flying away with what looked like a wax-moth larvae to the ground. This is the evidence I have that it's infected. I guess I'll find out just how bad when I remove the roof in the next day-or-so.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr

Just a guess, but, if you are seeing wax moth evidence, you likely don't have a queen, or the hive is very weak. A good strong hive will not have wax worms.

cchoganjr


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## Michael Bush

I would compress the hive. Remove what comb they can't protect that is infested and freeze it to kill the wax moths. Try to get them down one box smaller than they currently are so they can guard the combs they have.


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## PatBeek

.

Michael, Thanks for the suggestion. I don't have a smaller hive to put them in for now, but I can surely place a follower-board in there of some sort.


So the other day a gentleman called me who oversees a retirement mobile home park here in Lakeland, FL. Me and a buddy already removed some bees over a year ago from this neighborhood, but I believe I'll be going this one alone.

I stopped by to take photos today and scope-out what I'll be dealing with. 

And by the way, I'm going to start a whole new thread for this one too, but here are the photos thus far of my reconnaissance mission: *Just went to scope-out hive underneath a mobile home for soon-to-be cut-out*

Not too sure how far they go back, but I doubt it's too far. This is right on the bottom edge of a mobile home - of course underneath the home.


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## PatBeek

.

Alright, I did my first inspection this morning of this hive that''s from the trap-out I originally did back in late September.

First off, there's plenty of capped brood, so the queen DID make it out. 

I was only able to inspect half the hive thus far because of time constraints.

I did not see ANY sign of wax moths in this first go-round, but I'm sure there could be some towards the front entrance. So basically, what I have seen thus far, the hive is VERY healthy and thriving.

In fact, here's the comb they are building on the last top bar towards the back. Notice there are only about 4 top bars left in this hive. That's how much they've built since late September....lol.....unbelievable.










Here are a few other top bars I pulled out. I had to do just MINIMAL cutting to separate either attached comb and/or propolis, so they did a fine job keeping it all straight, at least from what I've seen thus far. I'm assuming the front part is straight too or else the back part wouldn't be.

Also, I had my 7-year-old son take these photos from the safety of behind the screened-in porch... hehehe.. So therefore, the photography could have been better, but that's what I have to work with at the moment.


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## shannonswyatt

Nice! Please invest a few dollars into a proper jacket and veil before you succumb to the sun and die from heat stroke!


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## PatBeek

shannonswyatt said:


> Nice! Please invest a few dollars into a proper jacket and veil before you succumb to the sun and die from heat stroke!


Hahahaha, I agree.

However, it felt GREAT today compared to what I was feeling the other day doing that botched cut-out under the mobile home. 

But yes, there are three things on my shopping list:

A smoker

A good suit

A bee vac

(and hopefully not a divorce lawyer)...lol


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## shannonswyatt

Ha! As soon as she starts getting honey she will complain that there isn't enough honey and you need to make more!


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## PatBeek

.

Here's a very short video clip of these bees enjoying their new home after the trap-out hive was moved to my backyard from their original location.

By the way, that Lowe's bucket has some leftover honey from the comb I pulled from the botched cut-out I did a few days ago:


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## PatBeek

shannonswyatt said:


> Ha! As soon as she starts getting honey she will complain that there isn't enough honey and you need to make more!


She and the kids enjoyed some from the botched cut-out I did the other day.

It's not a major selling-point for her, but I know she slightly dug it.

.


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## Howie B

Dear Mr Hogan,

I would appreciate it if you could send me the info on your trap-out system. Thanking you in advance.

Howie B


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr

Howie B said:


> send me the info on your trap-out system


Send me an e-mail [email protected] I cannot attach to a private message here at beesource.

cchoganjr


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