# Nicot System Question



## fish_stix (May 17, 2009)

Doing wrong? Using a Nicot system! Just learn to graft; in 30-60 minutes you can be very good at it. Take out a frame with eggs and young larva and practice! Doesn't hurt the hive and you'll have it down pat quickly. Even if your first grafted cell bar only results in one cell you'll be far ahead of your present results!


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## rdowell (Oct 18, 2010)

I tried grafting but I had a stroke last year and don't have enough hand control to do it. So I am resorting to the Nicot, hoping my hands will recover enough.


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

I have tried it also with no results so I now use the cell cups and graft into them.I have tried the Hopkins method and that works really well.On the Hopkins method you are supposed to destroy a couple eggs and leave one and then destroy a couple more and leave on and so fourth to give room for the queen cells to grow.I do it a little different by letting the bees choose which they want to raise queens in and after a couple days I will destroy the cells on each side to give room.It really works pretty good.Getting old and hands and eyes not working as good as they used to has been making me cut back on grafting!!!


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

You're not leaving the queen confined long enough. You should release her on the morning of day 4, or once the eggs have hatched. If you release her before then the bees may clean out the eggs. Also, if you're in a dearth, she may not lay eggs, so you must feed the colony well a couple of days prior to confinement and throughout the confinement period. Contrary to the negative comments above, I've had great success with my Jenter system this year - super easy to use. Only one issue was getting the queen to lay during a dearth, which can be resolved by feeding.


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## rdowell (Oct 18, 2010)

Everything I have read states to confine the queen for 24 hours. If I left her for 4 days how would eggs that don't exist hatch. Bees have not cleaned out the cells. I examined closely with a magnifying glass and there were no eggs. I was feeding all four plus there was a flow on.


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## mythomane (Feb 18, 2009)

Do you have the instructional DVD?


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## rdowell (Oct 18, 2010)

Yes I do. I have the one by David Eyre, the Bee Works. I think I have done everything he suggest.
After reading an article by Michael Bush is when I decided to try leaving the system in for four days cleaning but that did not help me.


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

Queen rearing is easier before the summer solstice. 
After the solstice, it gets trickier. 
Keep a feeder on of syrup, and give them pollen.
the hive should be somewhat crowded with lots of stores.


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## mythomane (Feb 18, 2009)

This is not the best time of the season to be raising queens in the South. It is just too hot. The queen shuts down. You are on a flow now?


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## rdowell (Oct 18, 2010)

I would not call me in the south, I'm in northern Kentucky. The four attempts have been over the past six weeks. Queens seem to be laying elsewhere just not in the Nicot. Could be heat but I don't think that has been the problem before now?


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## beedeetee (Nov 27, 2004)

I use a Jenter, but I assume that they are basically the same. Are your Nicot cells drawn out? I actually have the opposite problem in that if I leave the queen in for 24 hours she will have started laying double eggs in the cells. I try to get her out of the Jenter in 14-18 hours, but work and cold mornings make that difficult. I would just put the Nicot in an active area of the hive and let the bees use the cells for honey or even brood. I know that I put mine in for a couple of days before adding the queen one time and they had already put nectar in the cells by the time that I got back to put her in. After adding the queen they moved the honey quickly. By the next day I had eggs.


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## rdowell (Oct 18, 2010)

Yes it is my understanding that they are very similar. I not sure what you mean by "Are your Nicot cells drawn out?"


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## beedeetee (Nov 27, 2004)

With a Jenter the base is just plastic foundation. You put it in a hive and let them draw out the cells. Then you can put the queen in and the excluder over the top. If they are not drawn out, she won't lay on the plastic foundation.


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## virginiawolf (Feb 18, 2011)

I found this link 
http://www.beeworks.com/view_DVD/nicotsystem.html

It looks like it should work 

Do you need to let the bees kind of clean up the cups for a day before confining the queen in the section with the cups?

Also, Once the queen cell has a cage on it can the bees still take care of it the same?

I'm interested in this system but haven’t tried it. I enjoyed grafting but wouldn't mind trying this graft less piece of equipment possibly next spring. 
I wonder why your queens won't lay eggs in it.
Hope you have success


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## rdowell (Oct 18, 2010)

Do you need to let the bees kind of clean up the cups for a day before confining the queen in the section with the cups? I have done this first 24 hours, then 2 days and finally four days.
The queen cage is a queen excluder, the workers have complete access, The like you provided is the DVD I have and it looks as if I have done everything they suggest.


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

virginiawolf said:


> I found this link
> http://www.beeworks.com/view_DVD/nicotsystem.html
> 
> It looks like it should work
> ...


I do see something different than what I have been told and done in that clip.I have always been told to cut out a square in a frame that already has some brood and install it.I see he has his installed in some fairly new empty comb.Any of you experts on this system care to say anything about this?


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## rdowell (Oct 18, 2010)

snapper1d said:


> I do see something different than what I have been told and done in that clip.I have always been told to cut out a square in a frame that already has some brood and install it.I see he has his installed in some fairly new empty comb.Any of you experts on this system care to say anything about this?


I have tried both ways, didn't see any difference.


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## beedeetee (Nov 27, 2004)

I put mine in empty comb. I had some ugly stuff that was from small cell foundation. I cut a hole for it and let them wax it in and draw the cells. I did put it in the brood nest for that to happen I think (it has been a while).


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

I have always put my frame with it in the center of the brood nest.I have always fed well and during the early part of the year.I have never liked raising fall queens.There is no reasoning behind it I just have never liked doing it.I guess its one of those spring time flings like fishing,gardening and just getting out from a boring long winter!!!


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## virginiawolf (Feb 18, 2011)

Maybe try putting some wax on the cell cups to kind of blend them in? If she's laying in other cells than maybe this will fake it in? I imagined myself as a queen and wanted the wax to seem the same I'm just guessing Does this make sense? I mean why wouldn't the queen be laying in it?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Where are you putting the nicot? I put it between two frames of open brood. Bees do not like brood in places other than where there is brood. Even better if the queen has layed brood in the comb around the box as well. Confining her longer usually just makes double and triple eggs.


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## virginiawolf (Feb 18, 2011)

Michael, Hi. I haven't tried this nicot system but it does interest me. The post caught my eye. I was guessing as to why the queen wouldn't lay in it if she was laying elsewhere around it. It makes sense to stick it right in between frames of brood for sure. Since your here I was wondering if you could answer what you think of this nicot system. Come spring I plan to graft a few for friends etc. and perhaps to make a few nucs and what not. I have considered trying this nicot in conjunction with trying my hand again at grafting. It seems pretty straight forward. Do you like it? VirginiaWolf


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

rdowell said:


> Everything I have read states to confine the queen for 24 hours. If I left her for 4 days how would eggs that don't exist hatch. Bees have not cleaned out the cells. I examined closely with a magnifying glass and there were no eggs. I was feeding all four plus there was a flow on.


Read this: http://nicot.homestead.com/easynicot.html

I've tried releasing her on day 1 and day 2 and my bees always clean out the eggs, and this happens in my well "seasoned" jenter box. I see that many references suggest releasing the queen as soon as eggs are spotted, but my experience this year suggests you need to wait until larvae are present. 

Your problem appears to be that she's not laying at all. This very likely is do to your local conditions. You claim there's a flow on plus you're feeding, so she certainly should be laying. Of course they need pollen too. Perhaps you could try a pollen patty?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Since your here I was wondering if you could answer what you think of this nicot system.

I don't have one. I have several Jenter but the concepts are the same. I like it pretty well. Seems like I graft more now, mostly because I don't have to confine the queen and release the queen. I can just find some larvae the right age and graft. But it was and is useful especially when you don't know how old the larvae is. The Jenter (or Nicot) gives you the chance to find out. But you could also confine the queen in a #5 push in cage and know how old the larvae is and spend less money. Then you have to graft. I had to buy a magifier because of my eyesight but it works well.

> Come spring I plan to graft a few for friends etc. and perhaps to make a few nucs and what not. I have considered trying this nicot in conjunction with trying my hand again at grafting. 

You can even graft from the in between cells (the ones without plugs) that's how I got started.

>It seems pretty straight forward. Do you like it? 

Yes.


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## beedeetee (Nov 27, 2004)

It is kind of strange the different experiences that people have with these devices. I have never not had larva in every cell at the time that I move the plugs. My problem has been that I have had multiple larva in some cells. This seems to have depended on how long she is in the cage. The longest that I have ever left her in is maybe 20-22 hours. 

I put the Jenter in the middle of the brood nest a day or so before I add the queen. I usually leave the excluder cage on, but leave the circular door off. I then put the queen in and put the door on. In 14-22 hours I look to make sure I see eggs (I always have) and release the queen. I put the frame right back where I had it when she was laying (in the middle of the brood nest).

One more thing. When I release the queen I have removed the entire cage/excluder and I have just taken the circular door off to let her find her own way out. Both seem to work.


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## MethowKraig (Aug 21, 2011)

*Re: Introducing Nicot Cage*

Spray the Nicot cage with sugar syrup when you introduce it to the hive for cleaning. Bees don't like plastic. The queen will not lay in a foreign smelling environment. When the bees clean off the syrup, they will "polish" the cage and give it the hive scent. She will then accept it for laying.

-"Met How" Kraig


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## Redneck (Oct 2, 2005)

I have two of the nicot systems, also I have the jenter system. The first time I tried the nicot according to instructions, it did not work. On a new system brush the cells with sugar syrup and leave in the hive for 48 hours instead of 24. After the initial time you can go back to leaving 24 hours. My queen filled every space after being confined for 24 hours. Then just follow the included instructions. After I saw how easy it worked, I bought the second one.


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## Pugs (Jul 15, 2004)

Michael, what kind of magnification are you using? 

I'm looking to get new glasses for beekeeping with built in magnification. I'm think +5 would help. I don't think I can get anything higher than that.

Pugs


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