# Should I smoke?



## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

If you dont use the smoker ya probably will the next time.lol


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Lighting your smoker and keeping it nearby is _always _a good idea. 

As to what to do beyond having your smoker lit, I'd say that depends on your confidence in your level of protection, your tolerance for stings, and your beekeeping philosophy.


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## Moots (Nov 26, 2012)

I'm a newbie, but I was under the impression that it's best to ALWAYS use smoke....Granted, some people get carried away, more is not always better, but a little smoke goes a long way in making life more pleasant for the beekeeper.


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## bison (Apr 27, 2011)

Moots said:


> I'm a newbie, but I was under the impression that it's best to ALWAYS use smoke....Granted, some people get carried away, more is not always better, but a little smoke goes a long way in making life more pleasant for the beekeeper.


I don't think so. Sometimes bees are gentle as lambs and don't need smoke, so why ruin their day? But definitely a good idea to have smoke available.


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## Mimzy (Sep 17, 2013)

Thanks guys! I did smoke last summer/fall. I just didn't know if the bees were so happy to be out and about I could skip it today. Ok.... here I go. I have a frame of honey I saved in my freezer all winter that I can put in if they are out of stores. I so don't want them to die this close to spring. And I hear lots of stories of that happening this time of the year.


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

Mine are smokeless bees. Been in the hive 4 times this spring and only had a few let me know that they weren't happy with my moving things around. If your bees are gentle, you may find there are many times that you don't have to smoke 'em at all. (I use anise oil water in a bottle to cover up their pheromone scents, no sugar in there, as it was sticky).


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## Moots (Nov 26, 2012)

bison said:


> I don't think so. Sometimes bees are gentle as lambs and don't need smoke, *so why ruin their day? * But definitely a good idea to have smoke available.


What makes you so sure it ruins their day?

If done properly, it calms the bees...I think that's about as universally accepted in the world of beekeeping as anything!


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## Mimzy (Sep 17, 2013)

I took my smoker and just laid it on it's side near the hive so smoke waifed around ME. Everything looked good, I had a candy board on and they still have some of it so I scooted it more towards the center and closed them up. I am just so Happy they are alive. Thanks again folks!

Ruthiesbees what are the amounts of water/anise oil you put in a bottle. Sounds interesting. Biscotti Bees!


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

Mimzy said:


> Ruthiesbees what are the amounts of water/anise oil you put in a bottle. Sounds interesting. Biscotti Bees!


Just a drop or two per 1qt spray bottle. I also put it in their syrup. They really suck it down. (I think it also may help keep the mites and beetles away too, but I need to do more testing this year on that).


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## lazy shooter (Jun 3, 2011)

You can smoke all you want to in Colorado.


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## WWW (Feb 6, 2011)

Most likely you will find them to be a bit defensive since they are still living on winter stores, Lighting up the smoker only takes a few minuets and is well worth the time spent. If you don't want to mess with the smoker then I would at least have a spray bottle on hand as Ruthie suggested.


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## GLOCK (Dec 29, 2009)

lazy shooter said:


> You can smoke all you want to in Colorado.


You can in PA. also if ya don't get caught. kind a like oxalic acid it's illegal but lot's a people are doing it.
I use smoke it makes life a lot easier . after 4 years I have learned how to use it the right way and it makes a difference . I'm still working on breeding them gentle bees you all talk about .


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## treeWinder (May 3, 2013)

Lit and close by, usually for me a quick light puff in entrance and top cover, then just the smoke drifting around hive works well.


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## Edymnion (May 30, 2013)

I always light the smoker if I'm going to be moving frames.

Usually a puff in the front door soon as I get there, set my gear down, get the tops off, takes a minute or two while that first knock on the door puff gets them simmered down. Couple of quick puffs along the tops of the frames so I can get my bare fingers down on the top bars. Another puff or two whenever I see them lining back up at the gates.

But yeah, use the smoker. Its early in the year, all hives are going to be extra defensive right now. When the spring flow really kicks off, then they'll chill out.


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## Edymnion (May 30, 2013)

Double post, sorry.

I mean, um, Sure you should smoke! All the cool kids smoke. Those anti-smoking ads are just the man trying to tell you what to do and how to be a conformist! Power to the people!

//am I doing it right?


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## lazy shooter (Jun 3, 2011)

If I am going to take a frame out of a hive, I use smoke. If I just want to take a peek under the top cover, I don't use smoke. It took me a while to learn to really go slow and smoke lightly as you go. When not smoking, I set my smoker on the ground in front of the entry and let a bit of smoke wisp into the hive. I think in the long run smoking disturbs the bees far less than just working through the hive and letting the bees attack and attack. Smoke makes it easier on one's nerves.


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## Ennui (Jun 6, 2013)

Moots said:


> I think that's about as universally accepted in the world of beekeeping as anything!


The world is flat. (despite being able to see a curved horizon).
Pizza and chocolate give you acne.
People were more or less capable based on skin color.

I personally believe all 3 of my examples are a load of bollocks. At one point they were all accepted fact. Now most are considered untrue by the majority, but some people still put stock in some of those statements.

Universally accepted truths aren't always true. Test them yourself, just prepared for what might happen. In this case... thousands of pissed off poison filled insects.

On a side note; I rarely use smoke, but I keep a lit smoker nearby anyway.


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## Birdman (May 8, 2009)

lazy shooter said:


> You can smoke all you want to in Colorado.


That would eat up honey supplies.


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## Cloverdale (Mar 26, 2012)

lazy shooter said:


> You can smoke all you want to in Colorado.


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## Moots (Nov 26, 2012)

Ennui said:


> The world is flat. (despite being able to see a curved horizon).
> Pizza and chocolate give you acne.
> People were more or less capable based on skin color.
> 
> ...


So....You believe what beekeeprs have done for literally for THOUSANDS of years is a flawed approach and you've figured out a better way....

Interesting....BY all means, keep us posted on that!


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## Greg Lowe (Feb 3, 2012)

Smoke them.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Get the smoker filled up, lid it and put it on stand by.
Once they released their defense smells then smoke them. By then you should know if
they are defensive or gentle. If they are gentle then don't. Next time you will know to
smoke or not. The trick is to move slowly but diligently and try to not make loud noises.
Ohh, once you pop the lid off you will see if they raise their butts or not. This will be a fun one.


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## Ennui (Jun 6, 2013)

Moots said:


> So....You believe what beekeeprs have done for literally for THOUSANDS of years is a flawed approach and you've figured out a better way....
> 
> Interesting....BY all means, keep us posted on that!


That's not what I said at all. I quite clearly stated what people believed for thousands of years is sometimes wrong and if you have interest in testing out other options, by all means do so, but be prepared in case your test fail.

But of course I do think smoking is flawed, to say otherwise would mean it is flawless which is to say perfect. While quite effective (both in use and cost), it is not a perfect solution. I applaud anyone and everyone who is willing to tweak old solutions or test out new solutions in the goal of making something even a little bit better.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

GLOCK said:


> You can in PA. also if ya don't get caught. kind a like oxalic acid it's illegal but lot's a people are doing it.


I tried smoking some OA it darn near killed me.


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## Moots (Nov 26, 2012)

Ennui said:


> That's not what I said at all. I quite clearly stated what people believed for thousands of years is sometimes wrong and if you have interest in testing out other options, by all means do so, but be prepared in case your test fail.
> 
> But of course I do think smoking is flawed, to say otherwise would mean it is flawless which is to say perfect. While quite effective (both in use and cost), it is not a perfect solution. I applaud anyone and everyone who is willing to tweak old solutions or test out new solutions in the goal of making something even a little bit better.


Oh....OK...I get it, you want to make this one of those, "it depends what your meaning of is, is" discussions! 

For those not wanting to get philosophical or break out a dictionary....

Just remember, in the world of beekeeping; 

SMOKE = "A good thing"!


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## Deepsouth (Feb 21, 2012)

I always use smoke no matter how calm they are.


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## RCorl (Mar 24, 2012)

lazy shooter said:


> You can smoke all you want to in Colorado.


Along those lines, has anyone dropped a bud or two into their smoker to see what effect it has on the bees? Maybe the mites would get buzzed and fall off of the bees!


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

been using smoke for over 50 yrs. makes more sense than spraying illegal chemicals into the hive. most anti smoke people are the natural ones. go figure?


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

Smoke is great for moving bees out of your way.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

beeware10 said:


> been using smoke for over 50 yrs. makes more sense than spraying illegal chemicals into the hive. most anti smoke people are the natural ones. go figure?


What kind of chemicals do people use instead of smoke? I have heard of sugar water w/ essential oil but nothing other than that besides smoke.


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## MrHappy (Feb 10, 2012)

I used smoke the first year I did beekeeping and then I thought about what happens in the hive and why I did it.

To me, when you smoke the bees, they think its a forest fire. They fill up on whatever they can so they can get out of there when the fire hits as fast as possible. They sit there for hours with the honey waiting for the fire to hit or the smoke to go away. This is lost production time since the house bees might not be taking the honey from the workers and storing it.

Beekeepers smoke because they want calm bees that are not aggressive and they are afraid the bees might sting them. They also use the smoke to move the bees out of the way, adding more smoke to the hive, so they don't crush them when they put the hive back together.

I act calm and move slower and did not smoke at all last year. Still never got stung and got more honey than the year before. Yes, I squished a few bees, but they only live a couple months anyways so 10 bees a month is not enough to worry about, to me. Just my opinion.


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## Moots (Nov 26, 2012)

MrHappy said:


> I act calm and move slower and did not smoke at all last year. * Still never got stung *and got more honey than the year before. Yes, I squished a few bees, but they only live a couple months anyways so 10 bees a month is not enough to worry about, to me. Just my opinion.


*
** Emphasis added*

MrHappy,

Never got stung? Pretty Impressive! 

Curious, how may hives do you have, and how many inspections do you think you performed?

Also, what's your level of protection for your inspections? Full bee suit?, Just a veil?, No veil?....Gloves or no gloves?


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## Ottersbugs (May 3, 2013)

'Tis better to have it and not need it than need it and get stung a ton...


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

MrHappy said:


> To me, when you smoke the bees, they think its a forest fire. They fill up on whatever they can so they can get out of there when the fire hits as fast as possible. They sit there for hours with the honey waiting for the fire to hit or the smoke to go away. This is lost production time since the house bees might not be taking the honey from the workers and storing it.
> .


I am pretty sure that the forest fire thing is a myth


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## aussies1129 (Mar 22, 2014)

so whats the down side to using to much smoke??


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## emorris (May 31, 2013)

I'm having a hard time understanding why smoke would "calm" them. I can't think of a single animal/insect that would be calm around smoke. If I thought my house was on fire, I think I'd be pretty stressed out, disoriented, and not prepared. I guess maybe "disoriented and not prepared to take on a full on attack on you" would probably be better than "calm". 

Unless, of course, the bees are living in Washington or Colorado.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Call 911 if I were you, haa ha!
I think the purpose of smoking them is to make them think the fire (if in the forest) is nearby to quickly take as
much honey as they can in case of an evacuation. Without honey they cannot survive for a long time and to build up
new combs out there in case they find a new home. So when they are on the honey they temporarily forgot
that you are checking their hive. Also the smoke interrupted their alarm pheromone because the bees will
release this smell to say intruder alert so everybody attack. It is natural for the bees to defend their hive when provoked.
Using a smoker to lessen the alarm attack smell they are calmer than usual and while gorging on honey they are calmer than normal.


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## txbeek (May 21, 2013)

Bees live by pheromones. Smoke masks the chemical signals, especially alarm pheromones from crushed or stinging bees. I think it causes confusion and hence inaction other than repulsion from the smoke. How would workers, who only live 40 days or so have the experience or intellectual capacity to link smoke with fire, or even perceive fire as a threat? How could they possibly connect smoke with fire to hive destruction to needing to eat much honey to escape the fire. I have seen bees, attracted by lights at night, fly right into a low smoking fire with no hesitation, presumably attracted to the light. Essential oils can have the same effect, as does rubbing liquid smoke on my hands before working a hive to avoid stings. Smoke is just very effective at blocking chemical communication between highly social animals who have likely never been out of contact with their hivemates. Its a similar reaction to teenagers who get their cell phones taken away. They are shocked, stupified, confused, and immobilized untill they get their text and tweet fix. At least that makes the most sense to me. 

TxBeek


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Nabber86 said:


> I tried smoking some OA it darn near killed me.


:lpf:


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

I believe TxBeek has hit on one of the great uses of smoke...and that's to hide the alarm pheromones. I use the smoker about equally on my hands as I do my hives...a puff or two in the front entrance and a puff under the top and then give them a minute or two to "respond". While inspecting and I get a sting I'll smoke the sting site quickly before the scent gets too evident to the other bees.

TxBeek, I tend to think differently than the confusion and inaction idea. I agree that bees normally only live a couple of months during the summertime and have little time to "learn" things. Let me pose this...how do workers who crawl out of their cells and dry off immediately know what to do?...clean-up detail, feeding babies, receivers, packers, guards, foragers, scouts, waggle dances?...and the drones, how do they know where the DCA is located?...how do the queens know where it is? I personally believe God in Heaven gives them this "knowledge", others believe the knowledge comes from elsewhere, and some people just don't think about it.  The thing here is that the honey bees *know* (in a bee-brain kind of way that us humans could learn from) what to do from their very beginning. 

When smoke is pushed into a hive I don't think mass confusion is caused, I think the bees, as a single living organism have a definite course of action that it follows. The smoke appears to make the bees more concerned about the smoke itself rather than the big creature tearing their comb apart. I'm sure it compromises their phermone communication but it seems they have a "fail safe" plan. Bees are serious about colony and species survival. I think they see the smoke as something that *could* completely destroy the colony so they move their priority to preparing to abandon the hive. Smoke causes the guards to drop their 'guard' a bit (we use the smoke to "calm them", right?). The smoke triggers "something" that causes the workers to gorge on honey (they're known to do this...lots of bees can be seen with there heads deep in the honey cells after smoking...they also gorge just prior to making a mass exodus from the hive...swarming). If too much smoke is used while trying to find/catch the queen then she puts into high-gear what she does so well...running on the comb (could this be akin to the workers running the queen around prior to swarming...getting her slimmed down...but in this case she thinks she has to get down to flight weight quickly on her own? Does her running around also excite the workers?). As for the drones...who knowsSmoke causes the different members (bees) of the body (colony) to respond in different ways but all possibly pointed to colony survival.

I'll smoke before opening a hive, and if I see a pile of bees building up on the top of the frames I will eventually smoke them lightly again. I have a half dozen hives of varying sizes. Either way, whether you smoke them or not, doing an inspection is going to disrupt a good part of the day's foraging and hive activity, anyhow.

Anyhow, that's some jumbled up thoughts of mine on smoking bees...am I right? Maybe, maybe not, maybe kinda... 

Best wishes,
Ed


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

emorris said:


> I'm having a hard time understanding why smoke would "calm" them. I can't think of a single animal/insect that would be calm around smoke. If I thought my house was on fire, I think I'd be pretty stressed out, disoriented, and not prepared. I guess maybe "disoriented and not prepared to take on a full on attack on you" would probably be better than "calm".


Actually there is single animal/insect that is calm around smoke; honeybees and the effect has been observed for millennia. The effect has also been well documented calming, not disorienting and stressed.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

Intheswamp said:


> The smoke triggers "something" that causes the workers to gorge on honey (they're known to do this...lots of bees can be seen with there heads deep in the honey cells after smoking...they also gorge just prior to making a mass exodus from the hive...swarming).


I have never observed bees "gorging" on honey after being smoked, or bees with heads deep down in the cell. They pretty much go on about their business as usual.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Nabber86 said:


> I have never observed bees "gorging" on honey after being smoked, or bees with heads deep down in the cell. They pretty much go on about their business as usual.


I have only been at this for a few years (my third honey season) and consider myself a rank newbee. But, during inspections after smoking them, I have definitely observed many bees with their heads buried deep into cells...not just one or two bees, either. I don't know if that's normal activity or not, but I do know what I've observed. As for the bees gorging on honey prior to swarming, I thought that this a known action. :s

Ed


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## Moots (Nov 26, 2012)

Intheswamp said:


> I have only been at this for a few years (my third honey season) and consider myself a rank newbee. But, during inspections after smoking them, I have definitely observed many bees with their heads buried deep into cells...not just one or two bees, either. I don't know if that's normal activity or not, but I do know what I've observed. As for the bees gorging on honey prior to swarming, I thought that this a known action. :s
> 
> Ed


Ed,
My observations are consistent with yours!


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## txbeek (May 21, 2013)

But maybe the bees with their heads in cells would have been doing that anyway without smoke. 

I have top bar hives and only use smoke if too many bees take to the air or to move them down when moving bars. But many of the bees have their heads in cells on bars that i pull out of the hive when i havent used ANY smoke yet. I even touch some and most just ignore my touch or look around for a second, then go back to business in the cell. I can hold and inspect a bar for several minutes and most bees seem clueless that anything has changed. But if i hit a comb with a puff of smoke, the bees run around confused but moving away from the smoke. i have never seen any run to the nearest cell and start eating honey. maybe my hives are abnormal, but that is what I consistently observe. 

I also believe God created and designed bees to perform their lifecycle functions. Those functions have genetic encoding, observed learned behavior, and pheromone instructions that guide them. I have no idea how it all gets sorted out. But warning pheromones from some bees trigger defensive reactions from other bees. I find it difficult to believe God programmed bees with genetic memories of fire and smoke bad experiences. It makes much more sense the smoke isolates individual bees from hive communication with workers and the queen. When cut off, it makes sense for bees to flee the smoke and then wait for hive communication for what to do next. When contact with the queen pheromones is reestablished, and pheromones from other workers, then they act. If alarmed they move to the source of the threat. If light invades between bars, they move toward the light source to check it out. But most just seem to go back to their hive business. 

Again my bees may be abnormal, but those are my conclusions based on my first hand hive, swarm, and cutout bee behavior observations. 

TxBeek


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

What's the saying?..."Ask 10 beekeepers a question and get 11 answers (or is it 12?)"? 

TB, I agree with a lot of what you're saying and have a different opinion on some things. On down the road, when the day comes that they throw dirt in our face we probably still won't know the answer to a lot of our questions nor the truth to a lot of our opinions. Until then I'm going to try and take care of some bees and make some honey. It's all good. 

Best wishes,
Ed


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## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

Intheswamp said:


> What's the saying?..."Ask 10 beekeepers a question and get 11 answers (or is it 12?)"?
> ....... On down the road, when the day comes....


And we've had this 'smoke, or not to smoke' discussion a bazillion more times.


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## txbeek (May 21, 2013)

I just wonder if someone with an observation window could video the bees before smoking and what they do when smoke enters the entrance. If workers dive into honey cells, behavior documented. But maybe they dive into cells to just escape the smoke odor? 

Im still a very, very new beek and still observing and learning as I go. Just sharing observations and friendly conversation. Not willing to put any money on a bees vs smoke bet. 

TxBeek


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

Intheswamp said:


> What's the saying?..."Ask 10 beekeepers a question and get 11 answers (or is it 12?)"?
> 
> Best wishes,
> Ed


True, but I think the concept of using a smoker when working your bees is one of the more universally accepted things in beekeeping, if there ever was one. Not to dog newbees but in my observation, most of the anti smoker posts come from people with very little experience. 

If you asked a statistically significant number of bee keepers, my guess would be that over 90% would suggest the use of smoke. It works and has been proven to do so forever.


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## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

When I got my bees back from almonds i cracked a lid the next day to see how things were looking inside, no smoke and they turned my pants into a cactus! I put the lid back on and came back two days later and used smoke when getting the cell starter/finisher together. As soon as I would puff smoke in the entrance it came out just as fast from the bees fanning!

When I went back this last Friday to make splits i did everything with out smoke and only had a couple bees buzzing the veil. I rarely use smoke at all and when I do light the smoker i forget its there half the time! It's usually out by the time im done with everything anyhow!


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

BeeGhost said:


> I rarely use smoke at all and when I do light the smoker i forget its there half the time! It's usually out by the time im done with everything anyhow!





> # Years in Beekeeping:
> 2


Perfect example of the point I was making. Get back with us in a couple of years.


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## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

Actually Nabber, im completing my third year, not that it matters. What's the difference between 3 years and 30 when smoke is involved? Do the bees get crankier year after year? I've had nasty hives and hives like i have now that are pretty docile. 

Still don't know what years of beekeeping has to do with it? Please explain?

Im sure the extra 3 years you have on me makes a huge difference?? 

I'll just stick to my 27 "smokeless" hives and enjoy!


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## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

I also happen to know someone that runs around 500 hives that rarely uses smoke either and has been at the game a lot longer than me. Maybe he should use smoke more often also? I've seen video of Kieth Jarret opening well populated hives with out smoke or a veil, maybe he needs to use smoke all the time also? 

Im not saying not to use smoke, to each their own, but if I can break a hive down without smoking it, I will. If i run across a hive that is nasty, ill mark it and requeen it as nasty hives are no fun to work anyhow.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

BeeGhost said:


> Actually Nabber, im completing my third year, not that it matters. What's the difference between 3 years and 30 when smoke is involved? Do the bees get crankier year after year?!


The bees don't get crankier, but in 30 years, your chances of encountering mean hives goes up significantly.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

BeeGhost said:


> I also happen to know someone that runs around 500 hives that rarely uses smoke either and has been at the game a lot longer than me. Maybe he should use smoke more often also? I've seen video of Kieth Jarret opening well populated hives with out smoke or a veil, maybe he needs to use smoke all the time also?w.


Not saying that it can't be done, but it is not common and those people are in a very small minority. Thousands upon thousands of beekeepers worldwide use smoke because it works really well. It's not just some mass hysteria thing. Smoke works and there is no valid reason not to use it.


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## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

Im not very common, i like to zig when everyone zags, I wear gloves when a lot of people don't, ive never wore a full bee suit and never will, I don't own a flatbed truck to haul bees. I am far from common and that is also common among beekeepers, there really is no standard way to keep bees at all. Yes, I bet every beekeeper owns a smoker, but whether they choose to use one is completely up to them, right?


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## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

Nabber86 said:


> Smoke works and there is no valid reason not to use it.


Here's my valid reason, I don't have to! So put that in your smoker and smoke it!


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## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

Nabber86 said:


> The bees don't get crankier, but in 30 years, your chances of encountering mean hives goes up significantly.


Wow, im above average then since in the 3 years ive been doing this ive had a few nasty hives!! The difference is im not afraid to work a nasty hive! Im not afraid to get stung, it happens and I deal with it. Now if I was working Africanized hives where the whole dang box comes at ya, then yes, I would smoke them and hope for the best, although that doesnt work 100% of the time either, atleast from what I have read and seen on the Internet. Call me lucky i suppose, but my bees really arnt that mean at all. I won't tolerate a nasty hive and will break it down and re-queen the splits. Why would I want to fear going to the bee yard because all the hives were nasty bugs! That's not my idea of fun at all!


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## fishewbee (May 28, 2021)

bison said:


> I don't think so. Sometimes bees are gentle as lambs and don't need smoke, so why ruin their day? But definitely a good idea to have smoke available.


Does smoking stress a new hive? I read it mimics a natural fire and they go into a survival mode. Other comments seem to point to


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## Cloverdale (Mar 26, 2012)

fishewbee said:


> Does smoking stress a new hive? I read it mimics a natural fire and they go into a survival mode. Other comments seem to point to


Just don’t over smoke them; and sometimes it’s just not a good day to go in. You can also use 1:1 spray lightly on them, but that really won’t disarm the guard bees, which is usually the reason why you would smoke them in the first place.


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## jimbo3 (Jun 7, 2015)

fishewbee said:


> Does smoking stress a new hive? I read it mimics a natural fire and they go into a survival mode. Other comments seem to point to


I don't buy into these evolutionary theories. Sure, it might be correct, but nobody knows it is, and I haven't seen any conclusive evidence that bees engorge themselves with honey. We have no way of knowing if the bees act that way because of a forest fire, and I'm of the opinion that if they did indeed engorge themselves with honey on the fact that they thought their hive was in danger from fire that they'd abscond the hive shortly after engorging themselves. Why would they stay thinking the hive was in imminent threat of fire? They've been programmed to fill their guts with honey in preparation of fire yet haven't been programmed to abscond with danger of fire? When do they abscond, when the flames are hitting the hive?


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## kkmrk (Mar 27, 2016)

Have had hot hives and very calm hives. Some hives don’t respond to smoke at all and need requeening. Weather and time of year are the variables that allow little or no smoke inspection. During very dry periods I’ve used liquid smoke and found it’s almost as effective as real smoke without fire hazard.


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## grady (Mar 14, 2016)

We've always had pretty calm bees ourselves, but we also used to run some bees from TX. Some employees complained about how hot they were. After watching them in the beeyard open the hives and give them a solitary puff of smoke it was hard to have any sympathy for them. Those bees were much nicer when given a more generous amount of smoke upon opening. Unless it's a nice summer day with a great honey flow on, the smoker is always helpful to have a better experience IMO.


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## rdimanin (Jan 17, 2020)

jimbo3 said:


> I don't buy into these evolutionary theories. Sure, it might be correct, but nobody knows it is, and I haven't seen any conclusive evidence that bees engorge themselves with honey. We have no way of knowing if the bees act that way because of a forest fire, and I'm of the opinion that if they did indeed engorge themselves with honey on the fact that they thought their hive was in danger from fire that they'd abscond the hive shortly after engorging themselves. Why would they stay thinking the hive was in imminent threat of fire? They've been programmed to fill their guts with honey in preparation of fire yet haven't been programmed to abscond with danger of fire? When do they abscond, when the flames are hitting the hive?


Agree with you 100%. Using a smoker correctly is an art & is taught intensively in the British Beekeeping Master/Instructor national programs. I bought the notes for the British Beek exam series at Northern Bee Books in the UK & you don't find tall tales about forest fires, honey gorging and the like being taught to serious beekeeping students. It's an American old beekeeper's tale that's repeated constantly despite being totally false. Smoke disguises the alarm pheromone so no army of bees comes up for battle when you lift the inner cover.


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