# Tanzanian Top Bar Hive Questions



## rossman_2000 (Feb 18, 2008)

I have a bunch of questions about Tanzanian (vertical walled) Top bar hives for those of you who use them. It looks like most people are using Kenyian TBH's with sloped walls. I have looked back in this forum and I havn't found as much information about the Tanzanian TBH's with vertical walls. 

I assume that most people using Tanz. TBH's do it so that they can be interchangeable with their Langstroth equipment.

What height box do you use? I have read that Michael Bush uses mediums because he had a problem with comb failure in a deep box. Does anybody use 9" or 10" deep boxes? Have you had problems with comb failure like Michael? Do you insulate above the bars?

Do you get a lot of attachment to the walls? How far down the walls will they attach? Do they build comb all the way to the floor at the walls, or does the comb hang down lower at the center?

Those of you using 9" or 10" deep boxes, how many bars do you use? How many bars have brood in them? Do you get many bars with just honey stored in the combs? 

Thanks for the information.

-jason


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## TheCheatOSX (Sep 25, 2007)

These are all questions that I will soon find the answers to, probably the hard way. These will be my first bees and first hives. I'm building deeps, double wide, Lang dimensions. Most of the wood is cut. I need to add the rabbets and dados to the box edges and glue and nail. I'm insulating above the bars with some 1/2" blue foam. The foam also helps support my roof made of corrugated plastic sign material. 

Here is my 15 degree pitched cover:  With insulation and With corrugated plastic above that


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## JaiPea (Sep 27, 2005)

There may be less written about TTBHs (aka horizontal hives or long horizontal hives) but they are not uncommon. When Lang beekeepers get sick of lifting boxes it is an easy switch to a long hive.

My hives are either the same as deeps or deeper (1x12s) and I've never had a comb failure because the bees always compensated by increasing the side attachments. Freshly drawn honey comb is weak and there is more weight on a TTBH comb than KTBH. A TTBH comb can have over 30% more area so a full comb is 30% heavier. If the day is going to be hot, remove honey combs early in the day.

Having had both KTBH and TTBH, there is no variation in comb attachment by the bees in like size hives. Factors which increase the amount of attachment are depth (deeper=more), width of top bar (wider=more), weather (heat=more, position (freshly drawn comb=more), and last but not least is genetics (some bees like side attachments more than others).

It is easier to remove a triangular KTBH comb than a rectangular TTBH because you don't have to lift vertically but KTBHs make everything else less convenient. If you go KTBH be prepared to modify/create commonly used accessories because they are not compatible with the industry. HSC gives you instant regression to small cell but they are Lang sized and if you buy a nuc you can't use the frames as a base to grow from.

You can run frames if the TTBH is Lang sized. For full width top bars glue/screw shims to the sides, or lay a sheet of linoleum as a 'blanket' over the bars and the bees will not be disturbed when you lift the lid.

After running long hives and KTBHs side by side for a few years, the KTBHs were dropped because lower capacity for the same footprint required too much attention and management by comparison. I moved away from top bars only, and now run the long hives with a combination of top bars and frames. Using frames in the brood nest makes inspection and manipulation easier.


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## rossman_2000 (Feb 18, 2008)

TheCheatOSX, I like your pitched cover. It must not weigh much with the foam and plastic.

JaiPea, thanks for the comments. I like your method of using frames in the brood nest and regular top bars for the rest of the hive.

-jason


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I assume that most people using Tanz. TBH's do it so that they can be interchangeable with their Langstroth equipment.

That's why a lot of people do it anyway. Satterfield does it just because it's easier to build.

>Do you get a lot of attachment to the walls?

Some, but no more than with the KTBH.

> How far down the walls will they attach?

If they think it needs it all the way. But usually just a place or two.

> Do they build comb all the way to the floor at the walls, or does the comb hang down lower at the center?

At first it's lower in the center. In the end it fills all the space available.

>Those of you using 9" or 10" deep boxes, how many bars do you use? How many bars have brood in them? Do you get many bars with just honey stored in the combs?

When I did it, I had a double wide deep. It was 22 bars. There were combs of just honey as well as a brood nest of course.


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## beenovice (Jun 19, 2007)

Mr. Michael Bush can you tell me what height you use on your Tanzanian top bar hives at the moment ? Do I understand correctly that you use height the same as 2/3 LG ?


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## TheCheatOSX (Sep 25, 2007)

Thanks for sharing your insights JaiPea, they were very valuable.

I've got my new bee blog up which has some more construction photos: http://chris.norrick.com/bees

-Chris


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Mr. Michael Bush can you tell me what height you use on your Tanzanian top bar hives at the moment ? Do I understand correctly that you use height the same as 2/3 LG ?

The box is the same as I'd build for mediums which is 6 5/8" plus 3/4" for the bottom board which is 7 3/8" or so. I just used a one by eight without cutting it down in width.


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## beenovice (Jun 19, 2007)

Michael Bush said:


> The box is the same as I'd build for mediums which is 6 5/8" plus 3/4" for the bottom board which is 7 3/8" or so. I just used a one by eight without cutting it down in width.


Do you recommend this kind of top bar hive with lenght of 40+ inches ?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Mine are 48 3/4". That seems to work fine.


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## beenovice (Jun 19, 2007)

Michael Bush said:


> Mine are 48 3/4". That seems to work fine.


Great, thanks. 

Will build one this big also and try it this year.


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