# Capping scratcher: how to use properly?



## power napper (Apr 2, 2005)

Hi KG, welcome to the forum, the cappings scratcher does sort of rip n tear at the cappings especially if the honey has started to granulate. We just drag it across the comb cappings over a container with the frame balanced on its side--some use a board with the pointed nail sticking up to rotate and balance the frame on. Hope that helps


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>(1) How much 'tearing up the comb' will bees tolerate?

They will fix it. Obviously the less it's torn up the less work they have to do.

>(2) What's the 'proper' way to use a capping scratcher?

Slip the points UNDER the caps and lift the caps off of the comb.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

If you're trying to stay away from a hot knife, maybe you should just try a bread knife or a Hackler Honey Punch.


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## rainesridgefarm (Sep 4, 2001)

I did not know there was gold in that river unless you mean liquid gold from your bees. I would just scrape it across the tops. you want to use very light pressure on a angle to just get the cappings off. Call me if you want more you have my number.


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## amymcg (Jan 13, 2005)

Betterbee sells a cold knife that has a serrated edge. Very nice. Very sharp. I peeled off some of my frame with the cappings when I extracted


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## Roger Porter (Aug 1, 2008)

Kishwaukee Goldminer said:


> I'm a new beekeeper who tried a capping scratcher only to find that it didn't open all the cells well, and it seemed to tear up the comb.
> (1) How much 'tearing up the comb' will bees tolerate?
> (2) What's the 'proper' way to use a capping scratcher?
> Thanks!


We just finished over 300 frames by pointing the tines toward the cappings and dragging them across, perforating every cap. We scratched the long way first, standing the frame on end, then back across the frame to be sure to scratch every cell cap. This is way preferable to the wasting of wax using our jiggle knife, and keeps the honey away from any heated metal. We probably have two cups of cappings left over, so the bees will not have to replace any cell sides. You can do it!


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

Last 2 years we used the cheaper scratcher, & where disappointed. This year I ordered the more expensive one, the needles are sharper & it did a better job.
Also as you're comb gets older it won't damage as easily as new comb.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Michael Bush;192434 What's the 'proper' way to use a capping scratcher?
Slip the points UNDER the caps and lift the caps off of the comb.[/QUOTE said:


> Its a CAPPINGS SCRATCHER, not a capping lifter.
> Michael you give a lot of funky advice, bit this is inexcusable. How much honey do you extract every year? I can't believe very much. If I "lifted" the cappings off of every lowspot I would never finish.
> 
> SCRATCH, rip, tear, gouge and dig. The bees repair it. It's a honey comb, not brood.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Its a CAPPINGS SCRATCHER, not a capping lifter.
Michael you give a lot of funky advice, bit this is inexcusable. How much honey do you extract every year? I can't believe very much. If I "lifted" the cappings off of every lowspot I would never finish. 

I don't use one anymore, it's easier to just learn to use the tip or the butt of the hot knife and you don't have to switch tools. But IF you want to use one lifting them tears up the comb a lot less. Have you ever tried it? Now I only use it for pulling some drone now and then to see how the mites are doing. 

You do realize this thread is six years old? I had a lot less hives six years ago...


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Throw away your scratchers. Youy already own a hive tool, don't you? You can use that to scratch cappings off of comb.


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## AdamB (Apr 15, 2010)

I saw a you-tube video yesterday, a German beekeeper was teaching some students about extracting honey. He used a cappings scratcher to lift the caps off. To me it sure looked a lot cleaner than scratching the tops off.


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## bermybee (Nov 2, 2008)

Michael Bush has the right idea if you’re looking not to mess up the comb. :applause: Push under the caps and lift. When you get real good at it depending on what type of scratcher you have you will be able to basically scoop from one end of the frame to the other while still gliding on the top, watch your fingers though when you reach the other side . We used to do about 3000 frames like that. 
I now use a Maxant plane with their 9 frame extractor speed control which I still think is the best way by far when it comes to not messing up the cells or cutting too much of the comb away while still being 3 to 4 time faster then lifting. As a matter a fact because my dad is stuck in his ways and so crazy about not messing up the wax he still uses the lifting method. Even though I proved that the plane is better by weighing all the capping and from two almost identical frames, from the same box, one using his lift method the other the hot plane then showing him the difference out of the extract O well you know what they say about leading a horse to water.
The bees will repair even blown frames out of the extractor it is just more work for them. How much honey does it take a bee to produce an equivalent amount of wax? If your gonna scratch or gouge into the comb with a hive tool or scratcher you might as well buy a grape press instead of an extractor. That being said I don’t know if you’re using a tangential extractor but I’m sure they’ll make an impression into the comb also.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

AdamB said:


> To me it sure looked a lot cleaner than scratching the tops off.


Do you want to get the job done or what? Holding the fork in your right hand, turn the tines towards the frame and scratch the cappings off of the comb surface. This will do little damage to the comb. 

Besides, I thought it had been well established that even completely replacing combs doesn't take very much out of the bees. So what's the big deal if one scratches a little deeper than necassary?


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## xcugat (Mar 4, 2008)

This helped me when I saw it I could not believe how much better the uncapping fork works when used like this rather than just raking the comb.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

It is my thought that a cappings SCRATCHER was to be used to primarily uncap low spots in the comb missed by what is commonly used for rapid uncapping, that being a power uncapper, hot knife or plane. I would think that lifting cappings on complete combs would only be used by someone unable to afford one of the above mentioned UNCAPPERS, or someone who thinks that slight damage to comb walls is a problem. Even then, scratching full combs would be much faster than lifting, and would not be noticed by the bees. Foundationless beekeeping is proof that bees can easily repair combs, but also can construct them from nothing at all. I use a hot knife for small batches, a power uncapper for large batches, and a SCRATCHER to scratch off any spots missed by these time savings appliances. I have SCRATCHED my combs annually, many of which are 30 and 40 years in service, and can only laugh at anyone suggesting that cappings lifting is the proper way to use a cappings SCRATCHER. :lpf::lpf::lpf:


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Who thinks it is scratcher and who thinks it is a lifter? Only Swienty calls it a "fork", and they are European. 

Kelleys:
https://kelleybees.com/Products/#ca...category=353536653633363137303730363936653637

Dadant:
https://www.dadant.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=35_70&products_id=469

Mann Lake:
http://www.mannlakeltd.com/ProductDetail.asp?idproduct=824&idCategory=

Swienty:
http://www.swienty.com/shop/default.asp?catid=1127

http://www.swienty.com/shop/vare.asp?side=0&vareid=107067


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

xcugat said:


> This helped me when I saw it I could not believe how much better the uncapping fork works when used like this rather than just raking the comb.


I guess some folks have more time than others. Me, I scrape comb caps from one end to the other and get those suckers into the extractor. I bet if you were paying someone $10.00/hr, you'd want them to work more efficiently too. Bees have no problem dealing w/ comb that has had it's cappings scraped off by a hive tool. The hooked end.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Proper use of capping scratcher
A. Hold capping scratcher firmly in right hand (If left handed proceed directly to 1A)
1A. Hold capping scratcher firmly in left hand
B. Scratch off cappings with moderate forehand pressure  *
C. Inspect for any intact cappings that might survive step B.. 
D. If some cappings remain repeat step B until no more cappings remain

Addendum: Don't attempt to shoo off or swat at any bees, flies or anything else on you or any co-worker at any time after you have initiated this process.

* Copywrited post #14 09/08/2011 Mark Berninghausen Brasher Falls, NY


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

As written in Post #14.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

sqkcrk said:


> As written in Post #14.


Sorry, please note posted correction giving proper credit.


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## schmism (Feb 7, 2009)

I tried scratching and lifting (as seen in the youtube vid)

i drained the extractor of honey. then scratched 4 frames extracted it and let it drain. LOTS of little chunks of wax in the honey that had to be filtered.

did the same lifting the capings (as see in the vid) and the honey was MUCH cleaner.

i suppose either way gets the job done, i prefer lifting the caps as opposed to scratching them.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I think the problematic word in the title of the Thread is "properly". Who has the right or authority to say what is "proper" use of a tool which can be used effectively in more than one way? I can only say what I do and what makes sense to me. What you do and makes sense to you (the inclusive you) is proper.


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## schmism (Feb 7, 2009)

sqkcrk said:


> Who has the right or authority to say what is "proper" use of a tool


isnt there a saying that says "if all you have is a hammer, every problem starts looking like a nail"


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## bermybee (Nov 2, 2008)

bermybee said:


> . depending on what type of scratcher you have.


Odfrank you should do your home work before you laugh at people that know Best. But thanks for the links now I’m going to use your own link to school you. 

http://www.swienty.com/brugerdir/webshop/files/00000092.pdf

and for those who prefer to scratch as you said “would only be used by someone unable to afford one of the above mentioned” you just use a cheaper tool

http://www.swienty.com/brugerdir/webshop/files/00000094.pdf 

So No there is definitely a right and wrong way to use a "scratcher".:lpf:


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

jim lyon said:


> Sorry, please note posted correction giving proper credit.


Thank you. Lawyers now unemployed.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

bermybee said:


> So No there is definitely a right and wrong way to use a "scratcher".:lpf:


And that would be your way and somebody elses way? Use it the way it makes the most sense to you. The way it fits your operation.

The guy in the Brushy Mountain Video, I bet he never uncaps old brood combs full of honey, only new first year honey combs.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

lifter , ha ha


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## bermybee (Nov 2, 2008)

I think some people are missing the point. I too could save my finger tips for the start button on my extractor or changing my inline filter but this is supposed to be help for a newbee. I remember having to load, unload and control the speed of a 12 frame extractor, then clean a double strainer with every other load, while uncapping and making sure the filter didn’t overflow or the honey does not touch the bottom of the extractor reel while the gate is closed or having a 5 gallon bucket split in your hands after repeat dumping of honey into storage barrels. If this was someone that had enough hives/honey not to worry about a filter/strainer clogging up or the little bit of extra work the bees have to do I don’t think they would be asking how to use a scratcher. In fact they would probably be just like some of you stuck in their ways and not willing to hear other peoples tried and tested opinion. A Gunnes is faster then a Cowen uncapper so why do so many of the larger operations still use a Cowens, even if they use regular radials?:shhhh:


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

bermybee said:


> IA Gunnes is faster then a Cowen uncapper so why do so many of the larger operations still use a Cowens, even if they use regular radials?:shhhh:


A They don't have to pull out and lay down each frame
B They either care about their hearing or don't want to wear ear protection all day
C They either have or some day want to own an auto load extractor

ps If you think a Cowen is pretty slow then you are just the person I'm looking for in the extracting room the next few weeks.


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## bermybee (Nov 2, 2008)

jim lyon :thumbsup: Thanks for just proving the fastest method is not always the best in certain applications.:applause:You just end up using time and energy elsewhere opcorn:


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

Bermy, at what point in your operation did you move from the metthod you outlined in post #29. How many hives did you have? Thanks.


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## bermybee (Nov 2, 2008)

At about 50 hives is when I changed over from the straining method and just over 100 when I changed my extractor. By that time i was really thanking Dadant for the ability to double load. Especially since equipment setup / initial cleaning and final breakdown/cleaning on top of those 300+ boxes where being taken off extracted and taken back out on my thanks giving week off from collage overseas. :lookout:


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