# Changing out old comb



## SallyD (Mar 12, 2011)

Hi All:
The comb in my hive is about 3 years old. It is my understanding that after 3 years comb should be changed out? Any tips on changing out the comb. Of course this is something I will do next spring. I imagine in the brood nest there will be eggs pollen on the comb..can't really take that out? Let me know how often you change out your comb and how you go about doing it. Thank you in advance!


----------



## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Here is a useful page on rotating out old comb:

http://www.honeybeesuite.com/rotate-brood-combs-for-a-healthier-nursery/


----------



## ccar2000 (Aug 9, 2009)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> Here is a useful page on rotating out old comb:
> 
> http://www.honeybeesuite.com/rotate-brood-combs-for-a-healthier-nursery/


That's about how I handle it. More by color and condition than actual age. I do mark the date on the top of the frames for the year that I put them in service. Just to keep track. Another thing that I do is use an upper entrance in the first super above the brood boxes. The bees that are bringing in nectar do not have to walk across the brood comb to get to the stores above.


----------



## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

SallyD said:


> Hi All:
> Any tips on changing out the comb.


Is your brood comb deep frames, or mediums?


----------



## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

I am changing out all brood combs 2005 and older that come from dead outs. I made this funky steam comb melter to use during the winter when the solar melter is not working. Click on the picture to see video. My foundations are all wax.


----------



## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

I brand the year of 1st service into all brood frames. I have a bad brace/burr/propolis problem so sometimes it is hard to read the year brand.


----------



## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

odfrank said:


> I am changing out all brood combs 2005 and older that come from dead outs. I made this funky steam comb melter to use during the winter when the solar melter is not working. Click on the picture to see video. My foundations are all wax.


Way too much time on your hands.


----------



## SS1 (Jun 1, 2013)

Charlie B said:


> Way too much time on your hands.


LOL!! Thats what I thought.. pretty neat idea though!!!

In spring the bees should be near the top of the hive. A perfect time to change out the frames in the lower brood box's or box if you use deeps. You can put the upper brood box on the bottom, drop the new brood box on top of them.. next spring do it again... then you can skip a year. I use mediums, so it puts the rotation to three years and works well. (so far)


----------



## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Once the melter was made there is little time involved. Fill the pressure cookers, light the burners, load the frames, bang the cocoons off the frames. It takes about 1 1/2 hours for a batch and I can do other projects in the meanwhile, or take a nap. Here are a few pictures from today's batch:

Opening:


Removing a cooked frame:



A banged clean frame:


----------



## max2 (Dec 24, 2009)

Odfrank = I do something similar with old frames with the difference that I cut the comb out and dispose of it.
When I started doing this I did as you do and I was very disapointed by the very small amount of wax I got from old comb.
What has your experience been?


----------



## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

There is wax in the old comb, just hard to get out. An under water press is needed.

Crazy Roland


----------



## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

SallyD said:


> Hi All:
> It is my understanding that after 3 years comb should be changed out?


Hi Sally, I rotate my brood comb out at five years. Brood comb only. Honey comb from supers should be good forever (or at least a long time). I try to do it at two frames per year....that way the bees aren't overwhelmed all at once.


----------



## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

I've seen almost that exact rig before in use along the TN NC line. I don't think they were rendering wax though.


----------



## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

The JollyOllie Steam Comb Rendering Box is producing about two pounds minus of very dark wax per ten deep or Jumbo frames. It is getting out a lot more wax from the cocoons than the solar melter does. 

>I've seen almost that exact rig before in use along the TN NC line. I don't think they were rendering wax though.
In my design I made sure the device and it's components could be used for other purposes in the off season.

See post #1 in this thread:
http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...tom-of-brood-comb-wax-block-from-steam-melter


----------



## SallyD (Mar 12, 2011)

beemandan said:


> Hi Sally, I rotate my brood comb out at five years. Brood comb only. Honey comb from supers should be good forever (or at least a long time). I try to do it at two frames per year....that way the bees aren't overwhelmed all at once.


Thank you Dan and everyone else for good advice!


----------



## KevinR (Apr 30, 2010)

How much wax do you seem reclaimed from old brood comb. Guessitmate on number of frames to average weight of wax.

Is it worth saving the cocoons and trying to press the additional wax from them? I've tried boiling them, but I didn't really think it was worth the time/effort. This year, I'll try with a steam box.. Planning to use a 1 gallon wallpaper steamer for the initial steam source,


----------



## AramF (Sep 23, 2010)

Let me understand this clearly. If I user solar melter, I get very little to none wax out of the old comb. If I boil it in the pot and then run through a sieve (like Fat Beeman shows on his youtube), I get just as little as with solar. Is the steam melter the answer? Does it extract wax so much better than the other 2 methods? Two lbs of wax from 10 frames of old comb sounds like a dream.

I've come to a point where it does not seem to be worth the trouble to process really old comb (like 6 years old). I did notice that if you burn it, certainly wax starts to come out. I was considering making suspended cage with a tub of water under it, to just burn the darn thing and collect the wax drops. I know, it is rather insane, but this is more of a curiosity thing now than anything else.

I've tried underwater presses with burlap sacks and that's just not the route I will ever take again. All wax impregnated the sack and there was all that slumgum to deal with.


----------



## KevinR (Apr 30, 2010)

Per the random youtube videos, steam works pretty good. I'll be trying this year...

I can tell you that boiling it doesn't get it out.. Unless your running into through a filter bag/press type setup...


----------



## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

AramF said:


> Let me understand this clearly. If I user solar melter, I get very little to none wax out of the old comb. If I boil it in the pot and then run through a sieve (like Fat Beeman shows on his youtube), I get just as little as with solar. Is the steam melter the answer? Does it extract wax so much better than the other 2 methods? Two lbs of wax from 10 frames of old comb sounds like a dream


I weighed the six blocks I made from my steam comb cleaner box and they average 2.41lbs. each from ten deep frames each. Some were Jumbo depth frames. A bit of slumgum in a few blocks. Pretty grungy looking wax, almost green. I think I am getting much more than from solar melting. I will collect some data next year.


----------



## KevinR (Apr 30, 2010)

Looks like propolis to me.... Should put them in the solar or boil them to get all that to settle out..


----------



## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Ollie - ever try steaming with the frames up side down?

Crazy Roland


----------



## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Roland said:


> Ollie - ever try steaming with the frames up side down?


I did these standing up so the wax would not pool in the Grooved top bar and bttm bar. They came out pretty clean. Is upside down better?


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>The comb in my hive is about 3 years old. It is my understanding that after 3 years comb should be changed out?

If you are using Apistan (fluvalinate), CheckMite (Cumaphos), or the new one with Amitraz for mites, then yes, I would change it out. If not, I would not bother.


----------



## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Upside down cells would not trap as much wax as it melts due to the angle on the cells.

Crazy Roland


----------



## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Roland said:


> Upside down cells would not trap as much wax as it melts due to the angle on the cells.Crazy Roland


I feel that the steam which blows pretty vigorously through my box washes/melts the wax out of the cocoons. They are much less stuck together than solar melted cocoons. And standing up the angle of the dangle is almost as good as upside down. I will try some upside down to see how clean the topbar groove comes out.


----------



## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Please do and report back. Do you then boil the frames in lye?

Crazy Roland


----------



## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

>Do you then boil the frames in lye?

I did hundreds decades ago but no more. I only do about 100 a year now and I hot pressure wash them after melting. I think all frame renovation costs more than making a new frame. The lye corrodes the nails and wires and the boiling loosens up the glue and nailing. The energy, the tank, the water, the lye, the time and you still end up with old loose frames that needs wires repaired and new foundation. I renovate frames that I made but toss any others made.


----------



## AramF (Sep 23, 2010)

So what happens to the condensed water from the steam? Does it not pour out along with the wax in the steam melter?


----------



## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

I'm curious frank. Do you spend more on propane for the two heaters than the wax is worth? Just wondering if it wouldn't be more cost effective to just buy new frames.


----------



## AramF (Sep 23, 2010)

Grozzie, I think Frank has mentioned that he is paying 4 times what the new frames are worth, if I may paraphrase his earlier post.


----------



## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

AramF said:


> So what happens to the condensed water from the steam? Does it not pour out along with the wax in the steam melter


Yes, it end up under the block of wax.


>I'm curious frank. Do you spend more on propane for the two heaters than the wax is worth? Just wondering if it wouldn't be more cost effective to just buy new frames.

Dollar for dollar new frames would probably cost less. Sometimes what we do does not make perfect sense but seems right.


----------



## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

AramF said:


> Grozzie, I think Frank has mentioned that he is paying 4 times what the new frames are worth, if I may paraphrase his earlier post.


Figuring frame cost at $.90 each....The tank cost $80. The burners cost $75. Misc was about $25. So I have to clean 200 frames just to cover those costs. I can probably clean 40+ frames for $25.00 of propane, so each frame costs $.62 in propane more or less. So after the first 200 frames I will be saving 31% on frame costs. Plus I am hot pressure washing them after the steaming, no idea what that costs. I bought the hot pressure washer probably 25 years ago for $2000 and it burns both electricity and diesel. Rewiring time is less. 

Yeah, it is probably break even at best. But think of all the trees I am saving.....and all the spare time I am filling.


----------



## AramF (Sep 23, 2010)

ok, So HUGE THUMBS UP for the steam melter, especially for old wax. I tried steaming frames in a deep box with 1500W clothes steamer from the top and it works very well. It took about 2.5 hours to get the last drop to come out, but it works super. Would be nice to make a nice collection-separator on the bottom for all the gunk to settle before the wax is poured out, but that's for later. 

The only drawback I see is that the old comb wax does not smell very pleasantly and during the extraction the garage really stinks up. Smell is a characteristic of dealing with old comb though, so do it in the out building. The 1kw hour costs 10 cents around here. So 25 cents per deep box is not too bad.


----------



## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

>the old comb wax does not smell very pleasantly and during the extraction

The bees didn't seem to think so, I had many checking out my melting even in the middle of winter. 2.5 hours is correct, I was closing down after 2 hours based on the value of remaining wax collected versus the cost of propane.


----------



## AramF (Sep 23, 2010)

Good to know, I can then safely apply it to plastic foundation for a quicker drawing out of comb.


----------



## Edymnion (May 30, 2013)

SallyD said:


> Hi All:
> The comb in my hive is about 3 years old. It is my understanding that after 3 years comb should be changed out? Any tips on changing out the comb. Of course this is something I will do next spring. I imagine in the brood nest there will be eggs pollen on the comb..can't really take that out? Let me know how often you change out your comb and how you go about doing it. Thank you in advance!


As for the brood, you can let the bees handle that.
When the weather warms up, smoke the top of the hive fairly heavily and the queen will usually move down into the bottom box to get away from it. Put an excluder between the two boxes, and wait for the top box to hatch out. After it does, the queen won't be able to get back up to it, so the workers should start trying to fill it with honey instead. Soon as you see that happening, pull the frames and replace them with fresh ones. Remove the excluder, let them draw out the new top frames and start laying in them, then switch the boxes and repeat the smoking and excluder.

Save some of the old comb for bait hives, render the rest.


----------

