# Proper age for grafting



## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

Can someone explain to me what size larvae exactly I am looking for? Nobody can give me a concise answer....

mike


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## JSL (Sep 22, 2007)

Mike,

I suggest beekeepers use an egg for comparison. When the larva first hatches it is slightly smaller than the egg. I prefer to graft larvae that are just slightly larger than eggs. There is a trade off here. The smaller larvae are harder to see and more delicate, so your over success rate may be lower than if you graft larger larvae. 

Joe


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Mike, the answer to your question is a larvae that is in it's first day of larvaehood. Many call this a three day old larvae, because the egg morphs into a larvae on the third day. You can tell which one to pick if you choose the larvae that are right next to the eggs, which are still standing.

Does that help?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Right after the hatch, at 3 1/2 days, is the perfect age. If they are just an imperfection on top of a small pool of clear liquid, that's the right age. If you can see them, but they haven't filled the bottom of the cell, you can probably get away with them that age, but I prefer younger. If you confine a queen and look at the cells four days later you'll have a lot of them that age.


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

I will take some pics for you... have a cold front coming in, so it will be Tuesday before we get back into the hives to graft again... I prefer the absolute smallest.. most of the time you can follow the eggs back in a pattern to the larvae.. the spot where the eggs stop and a tiny pool of "blue shimmer" starts, that is were you want to start... a day older will yield a better take, but the quality will not be as high... grafting starved the larvae for a short while as the nurses clean out the remaining jelly and begin to give it new, fresh jelly... the larvae that are grafted before they begin to gorge will be less effected by this period and have more development time as a queen, instead of as a worker.

Hope this helps!


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

MB, that is great on paper, but the larvae do not wave little flags telling you how old they are! 

Mike


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## frazzledfozzle (May 26, 2010)

Kingfisher, Michael also told you what 3 1/2 day old lavae looks like.

" If they are just an imperfection on top of a small pool of clear liquid, that's the right age. "

There you go no flag waving needed.

frazz


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## JBJ (Jan 27, 2005)

The clear liquid is key, as the larvae get older the jelly will become milky. Slightly smaller than an egg, and on crystal clear jelly is what you are looking for.


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## JBJ (Jan 27, 2005)

This one is almost too old... but still good.

_







_


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

Man mine were smaller than that, ok maybe I did ok. Will see how many hatch early from the first graft 
mike


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Mike, the photo isn't actual size.


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

Of course. Just looking proportionately. 

mike


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## JBJ (Jan 27, 2005)

Like I mentioned that one is pushing it for age, but still in the window. I prefer them just smaller than an egg. On perfect graft I will have mostly eggs in the morning and by graft time in the evening they will have hatched. It is a challenged for some to pick them up under 12 hours hold, but it does get very easy with practice. 

My 11 year old can do it, that's a good age for grafting isn't it?


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

Sure is! That's when your hands are the steadiest and your eyes are the keanest... in our family, they start learning at 7. Lol.


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## olympic (Aug 20, 2006)

<<I will take some pics for you... have a cold front coming in>
So, where are the photos Dude?


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

I am 17 and near sighted, not bad at the grafting, just am confused on whats what. 

mike


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

olympic said:


> <<I will take some pics for you... have a cold front coming in>
> So, where are the photos Dude?


Cold front...27 is the low tonight... will be next week before we can graft again... these are the troubles that come with an early spring. Lol.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Hey Mike how did that first graft you did turn out?

Or too early to say yet?


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## muskratcreekhoney (Mar 30, 2010)

Found this on Basic Beekeeping http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_qz9aE02ggbw/SFCO4sUdSpI/AAAAAAAAA08/so7FsZ29IE8/s1600-h/queenpart24.jpg


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## BeeTeach (Nov 10, 2005)

Great photo! I can't tell you how long I have been looking and how many times I've asked for a photo. I have always been told that it should be almost a "C" but not quite. This shows it. Thanks!


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