# Hive Has Swarmed Twice In Four Days



## bucky365 (Jul 21, 2008)

Second year beek. I started with a nuc last July that made it through the winter in great shape. I opened the hive 3/15 and it was pretty packed, so I added another deep boxe. I can't help but think that I should have inserted some empty frames throughout the chamber like Michael Bush advises. But I didn't want to disrupt them too much, so I left them alone. 

Anyway, last Wednesday they swarmed. Luckily, they settled in the rafters of my deck. When I was getting them into a box, I noticed the queen on the rail of the deck. I tried to grab her, but she flew away. I didn't know what else to do, so I buttoned up the hive and hoped that she would come back. I peeked a couple days ago, and they were drawing comb and gathering pollen. So I was hoping for the best.

Today, my neighbor knocked on the door and told me I had bees in my tree. Sure enough, about 15' up in a backyard tree, was a swarm in a fork of the tree. It was a smaller swarm than the previous one. I gathered it into a new box and I've left it under the tree.

My question is why two swarms within a week, and what should I do? Did the queen fly back to the original hive and gather a new group to her to swarm again? Should I combine the two swarms together? 

I really appreciate any help.


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## Konrad (Oct 7, 2004)

This could be a smaller after swarm with a brand new queen!
The smaller swarms you want to keep and look after because this queen didn't cost you anything.
I don't think the queen flew back, remember, this hive had bunch of queen cells...I had them swarm 3 times within 3 or 4 day's,....but be patient, a virgin queen has to get mated first, check new hive in about 2 to 3 weeks.

Konrad


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## Countryboy (Feb 15, 2009)

_I opened the hive 3/15 and it was pretty packed, so I added another deep boxe. I can't help but think that I should have inserted some empty frames throughout the chamber like Michael Bush advises. But I didn't want to disrupt them too much, so I left them alone. _

If there was a layer of honey at the top of the frames on 3/15, adding another box doesn't do much to prevent swarming, because the queen won't cross the honey to get to the new box. This is known as being honey bound.

I would STILL recommend inserting some empty frames in the brood chamber to open it up. At this point, they are already disrupted, so you might as well take some action. If there are several queen cells still in the hive, crush all but 1. If you have more virgin queens to hatch out, your hive may keep trying to throw after swarms until it doesn't have enough population to support itself.

If you want more hives, hive each swarm individually,or make nucs to sell. If you only want one hive, and you want to get some honey this year, I would combine the swarms back with your hive with newspaper and let the queens work it out amongst themselves.


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## sierrabees (Jul 7, 2006)

The old queen will often swarm almost as soon as the new queen cells are sealed. This gives about a week before the new queens are ready to fly and a strong hive can give off multiple secondary swarms. I find it's best to do some swarm prevention like spreading the brood or checkerboarding, at or before dandolion bloom. If I see a really strong hive too late and they are already building swarm cells, I usually do an artificial swarm rather than risk losing a big swarm and the honey flow along with it.


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## notaclue (Jun 30, 2005)

I lost two hives last year to excessive swarming (it was a weird year for that around here it seems). Keep an eye on them and make sure they don't get too weak. This can allow moths or SHB to take over. Good luck!!


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## bucky365 (Jul 21, 2008)

Thanks to all for the helpful responses. This is really a great forum with very helpful members. 

I think I'll make some room in the brood chamber and make sure it doesn't swarm again. Then I'll just try to baby the new hives and work toward next year, and make sure I stay on top of them next swarm season.


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## winevines (Apr 7, 2007)

bucky365 said:


> make sure it doesn't swarm again. .


Good Luck with that......... ! You can manage as best that you can, but bees are going to do what they want or feel is best.


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

If the hive was that full in the spring you should have thought of splitting it. If you don't have a source for a queen you can just grab a frame that has newly laid eggs as well as a couple of frames with brood in various stages along with the bees attached to them and put them in a new box. They will raise their own queen (most of the time) and this will prevent them from swarming if you reduce the size of the hive enough. The original hive will build up again rapidly for honey production and the new hive will raise a new queen and should be a nice strong hive by the end of the summer. Something to think about for next year.


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## bucky365 (Jul 21, 2008)

Thanks Alpha6. 

I didn't mean to imply that I was a beekeeper. I am still just a person that has bees. But, I really enjoy watching them. I will definitely try to stay ahead of them next year and do some preemptive splits. 

It's been raining here in the mornings for the last week, and I've been lax in getting out there and rearranging the brood chamber. Then this afternoon I looked out and about a thousand were flying around a nearby bush. I thought I was too late, but I ran out and checker-boarded the chamber and they all came back to the hive. I did notice a few empty queen cells on the frames while I was digging through. I'm probably just delaying the inevitable. Anyway, thanks!


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

Were the cells on the bottom bars or halfway up on the comb? Also, empty queen cells are a normal thing...its when you see royal jelly in them or capped that something is up.

I am curious if your your virgin queen is laying yet? You should check and see if you have eggs. Once she is laying there shouldn't be a need to keep digging into the brood nest. Just give them room (two deeps) and add your honey supers as they start to fill them.

Good luck.


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## bucky365 (Jul 21, 2008)

The queen cells I found were up in the frame, not below. Plus, there were frames of capped honey in the two deeps, so I put frames with starter strips in their place. 

I couldn't see any eggs or larva in the brood nest. However, there was some capped brood. Should I remove all the deep frames that are honey?


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

If its in the middle it usually is a superseding queen cell. Did you notice if there was any royal jelly in these? Not seeing eggs makes me wonder if the queen is gone..though you could have a virgin queen and it may take a few days before she is mated and laying. Keep checking. If you see no queen or eggs in a week I would think of ordering a queen.

Leave the honey for now if it is only two frames. The queen will have enough area to lay on the others.


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## bucky365 (Jul 21, 2008)

I couldn't tell if there was any jelly in them. I'm out of town until Monday. I'll check it then and let you know what I find. Thanks again.

Here's the pictures of the inspection.
http://picasaweb.google.com/bucky365/42909Inspection#


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