# hives crashing from CCD in California



## Missoura (Feb 12, 2009)

I was reading an article in the North County Times ( San Diego area) 

" Bee Colonies depleting Throughout Southern California"
by Jeff Rowe Nov. 2 , 2009.

CCD blamed mostly but a reference to cell phone towers being a possible problem.

Are thousands of hives crashing? 

CCD?


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Missoura said:


> CCD blamed mostly but a reference to cell phone towers being a possible problem.




Missoura, "enter at your own risk" would be a good place to post this.


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## Missoura (Feb 12, 2009)

Dr. Eric Mussen is quoted in the article as well as other California beekeepers.
I have not heard of a big die off . 
Is the article based in fact as far as a huge number of hives crashing?


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## cow pollinater (Dec 5, 2007)

Yep, Everything is crashing out here in CA... The only hope for you out of state guys is to keep your bees as far away from ours as possible.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

Here is the story...

http://www.nctimes.com/business/6ca604ef-d883-594b-99ec-f19f0b374f40.html


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## cow pollinater (Dec 5, 2007)

Missoura, (easy to confuse with hand pollinater)
keep'em home. More money for us.:thumbsup:


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## Missoura (Feb 12, 2009)

Thanks Bee Curious for the connection to the article!

My fingers fit a hive tool better than a computer. 

I guess I better not bee calling my girl friend on the cell from the bee yard after reading the article! maybe from a pay phone as I certainly can't call from the house!

In the comments a person says placing a cell phone by a hive can kill a hive in minutes.

Scary information in the article!

Looks like a repeat of spring 2006!

Missoura Hayseed


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

In the comments a person says placing a cell phone by a hive can kill a hive in minutes.

Cell phones were eliminated as a potential source of CCD.
CCD destoyed hives in some very remote areas of the USA and globally.
Gotta think outside the box.
Ernie


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## cow pollinater (Dec 5, 2007)

I was kidding, in case you couldn't tell. My bees look as good as they ever have. I've had bees for about eight years and started taking them serious about three years ago. It seems like every year I hear horor stories about CA and bees and I used to buy into it but I realy haven't seen it yet. Ask us again in March and we'll let you know how bad it really was.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

lets get the facts straight!
"We just don't know what is going on," said Eric Mussen, a honeybee expert at the UC Davis extension who is respected around the nation. He said a combination of factors may be causing all the bees in some colonies to die off.

"No one thing appears to be causing the problem," Mussen said. "My suspicion is it may be serious diseases we are not aware of."

Mussen said that recent studies of collapsed colonies have shown contamination by agricultural chemicals. Moreover, he said, because bee colonies are hauled from crop to crop, the bees tend not to get a variety of pollen, which makes them healthy.
__________________________________________

Some research has been done on cell phone transmissions, but it is inconclusive, Mikolich said.


Regards,
Ernie


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## cow pollinater (Dec 5, 2007)

> The above posting will be deleted!


Get your mind out of the gutter Ernie! I chose not to take it that way. sheep replaces cow the same way that hand pollination replaces bee pollination... Lets pretend he doesn't know that my real living is bovine AI and we'll all get along. Who needs a moderater looking over their shoulder... I mean besides me.


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## Missoura (Feb 12, 2009)

Thanks BEES4U!

I have not heard of California hives crashing so I wonder why the article at this time.

Maybe a slow news day.

You have not heard of widespread hive loss as the article says BEES4U around Ventura?


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

Lets pretend he doesn't know that my real living is bovine AI and we'll all get along. 
You got it.
can you get me a gross of semen straws with a good sire index?
Ernie


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## cow pollinater (Dec 5, 2007)

I pass five yards on my daily route, three are locals and two of those are the same guy. Two are from out of state uppermidwest. The locals are the same every day but I see the out of state bees with more and more equipment stacked to the side every few days. I know of another yard that looks more like equipment storage than bees... Something may be up but I don't think it's a CA problem.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

Yep
Yes,
It's actually called old queens, starvation, neglect and some Tactik that was applied to the hives about 8 weeks ago.
Ernie


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## Missoura (Feb 12, 2009)

Thanks cow pollinator!

Looking for information! 

Most out of state beekeepers I have spoke with have got the best bees in years but its hard to get information due to the vast numbers of hives involved in amond pollination.


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## Missoura (Feb 12, 2009)

BEES4U ,
You think the problem comes from what we call PPB !

I fought a serious battle with nosema ceranae in spring 2007 and 2008. I got a handle on the issue after using a light bleach solution on deadouts ( recomended by Jerry Bromenshenk in ABJ) and using a drench recomended by Eric Mussen. 
This year I fed fumigillin in syrup and spore counts are low.


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## Countryboy (Feb 15, 2009)

Let me get this straight - the monk who lost 99 of his 100 hives is blaming the cell towers - did he have all 100 hives in one yard? He must have a heck of an area to be able to support 100 hives.

The article also mentioned a Dave Farmer in Valley Center. I believe that might be the Dave Farmer that Terry Small Jr. works for. Terry might give us some more info.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

amond pollination. 

Almond Pollination.
usually good bees for the almond pollination follow ample precipitation in the prior year.
And, stay out of vine crop pollination in the prior summer.
Ernie


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## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

BEES4U said:


> and some Tactik that was applied to the hives about 8 weeks ago.
> Ernie


Are you saying there so called mite treatment isn't working or that the tactik is killing the bees?


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## RDY-B (May 20, 2007)

The article also mentioned a Dave Farmer in Valley Center. I believe that might be the Dave Farmer that Terry Small Jr. works for. Terry might give us some more info.[/QUOTE said:


> old news then we already figured that one out awhile back-PMS-AFB
> http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=232826&highlight=terry+small
> RDY-B post 32


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## Reed Honey (Mar 3, 2005)

Ernie, Can you please explain what you are trying to say about tactik killing bees or is it that the mites are killing the bees because tactik was used to late. Thanks


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

BEES4U said:


> In the comments a person says placing a cell phone by a hive can kill a hive in minutes.


All my girls have there own cell phones. They are killing me with the extra minutes each month. Not to mention the SMS charges


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

snip...
Something may be up but I don't think it's a CA problem.

tecumseh:
seems like very little is said about the places and seasonal conditions of the place those hives affected with CCD originated from. so a poor season in the dakotas shows up three months later as a large stack of dead equipment in california.

same thing seem to have happened in the original CCD flare up in Florida.

missoura writes:
I fought a serious battle with nosema ceranae in spring 2007 and 2008. I got a handle on the issue after using a light bleach solution on deadouts ( recomended by Jerry Bromenshenk in ABJ) and using a drench recomended by Eric Mussen. 
This year I fed fumigillin in syrup and spore counts are low.

tecumseh:
could you provide a bit more information on the treatment (I assume you are speaking of treatment of the dead out equipment here???) that seems successful in regards to restocking.

Randy Oliver made some casual comment (in one of his ABJ articles) on nosema c and it's inabiltiy to tolerate cold or freezing temperature even for short periods. the same process totally ineffective againist the other nosema. 

I suspect the nosema diseases are a larger problem than some folks might think. I have never much used the expensive stuff in the past but last year at least partially convinced me that fumidil may be the best money I spend... the biggest bang for the buck.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Hey Kenny,

you got any more popcorn? I'm out.


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## Missoura (Feb 12, 2009)

Tecumseh,
I enjoy Randy Oliver's articles and the articles provide better insight into problems commercial beekeepers face than most research articles.
The problem with all research is what works in California might not work in Florida when talking about disease.

Nosema ceranae never caused problems in my whole operation. Only in a few yards. I installed bees in those deadout boxes and the bees looked great until late July then crashed with high spore counts. 

The next spring we sprayed a light spray of clorox water (like you would use on honey equipment) on the frames , boxes and feeders ( do not forget to do the feeders) like the ABJ article said.

Installed bees and those are some of my best hives. I told Randy Oliver & Jerry Bromenshenk of my sucess but both said from their tests there was not enough nosema ceranae spores on frames to start a problem but in my opinion the clorox solution solved the problem. 

I used a fumigillin drench ( stronger than Mussen recomended) as soon as the problem was found the first year but less than 50% survived and the rest died over the next winter. I kept in a yard away from my other bees but if I had to do over again would have depopulated the hives and treated the equipment with clorox solution or acetic acid (used in Europe).


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

Can you please explain what you are trying to say about tactik killing bees.

*It's self explanatory!*
Do a search and you will find additional information on this forum.
Ernie


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## Barry Digman (May 21, 2003)

From the article:



> ... Demand is so great that beekeepers can earn $150 or more per bee colony for pollinating almonds. That's as much as five times what the bees earn pollinating other crops...
> 
> ...Yet beekeepers say it can cost up to $200 per colony a year to provide treatments to try to ward off mites and diseases and to provide additional food to help the bees get through the winter...
> 
> ...Science may save the bees, and the beekeepers' revenue, which can total about $400 per year for each colony in honey and pollination fees...



How accurate are those dollar figures? I'm a bit skeptical.


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## Reed Honey (Mar 3, 2005)

Keith, I think were gonna need it!! Better start new batch.. Ernie, have you used Tactik, do you know how the bees respond to it?? Just wondering if the keepers that you know of that are having trouble using it are waiting to late to use it and the mite loads themselves are killing the bees not the use of taktic..
Lots of times in this buisness its not what we think it is that actually does the damage but we only look at what the last thing was we did and place the blame there..


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

Give me the Tactik facts.

Seek and Ye shall Find.
Ernieopcorn:


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

Brother...reading this thread gave me a headache...and Keith, you are not helping matters!!!  I'll take real butter on my popcorn, thanks.


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## Missoura (Feb 12, 2009)

Alpha6,
Nosema ceranae is very different than nosema apis.

I run a small orchard and I spray to prevent disease NOT to cure the disease.

Fumigillin is expensive but cheap compared to loss of production for a season and replacing bees.

Prevention in my opinion is better than trying to cure a problem once established in your hives.


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

I think you missed my point....it was a joke, much like cell phones causing CCD.


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## Missoura (Feb 12, 2009)

ALPHA6,

I did! 

Has the list used Novevit instead of fumigillin ?
thoughts?

I am getting tired of paying for sucrose. Each time I get a load the price goes up! fifty two cents a pound dry weight mixed last load. Highway robbery!

Keith said in a post I read he does a mix. My fellow beeks in the Midwest said to stick with the sucrose this fall which I have been doing but thinking of a half sucrose/ half 42% in spring ( International Foods only sells 42% in our area).
We for years went through B&B Honey farm and bought tankers of 55%. We can store and make a mix ourselves but buying premixed at the plant is easier.

My question is when you read the Mann lake adds in ABJ they say sucrose will not put on weight. My hives put on weight?

They say sucrose will ferment. I have never had a problem.

I guess I should call Jack Thomas and get the sales pitch.
Do you guys use or have you ever used the Pro-sweet 71 blend?
The pro- sweet 77 ? 

My bees will take whatever has sugar or HFCS is involved. The girls love floor sweepings!
I once even fed bags of domino icing with a small amount of starch when the bees are flying good. No problems but many said was not good for bees.

Thanks in advance!


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

when you read the Mann lake adds in ABJ they say sucrose will not put on weight.

It's their sales pitch.
They forget that the bee industry did quite well feeding sucrose for many decades before they started promoting their products.
Ernie


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Ah, the fluff factor. lol


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Seeing a huge increase in Deformed Wing Virus crawlers in my yard this week.
The ravens are getting fat.


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

that sounds like a mite problem!


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

It would be very interesting to know *if* the hives that are crashing were fed high quality *Pollen Supplement or Pollen Substitute* starting last August or September to present.
Regards, 
Ernie


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## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

Yes, some of them probally were, but most were left to feed on the pesticide /fungicide tainted pollen they collected from the fields. I didn't feed pollen sub yet( I will in CA) and another beekeeper by me did(mann lake pollen sub) starting beginning of september. We are both seeing the same problem. I ether rolled from 10 hives out of 100 and found 2 mites in one colony and none in the others.


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