# EFB cleanup



## coastie (Feb 2, 2015)

I have a hive infected with EFB. It is equipment that I reused from last year from a hive that had EFB. I treated it and they seemed fine. Died over the winter and I threw a new package in. I am going to shake these guys out into new equipment with foundation and burn all the existing frames. What is the easiest way to clean the boxes, covers etc? Scorch? Can I wash them down with bleach?


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

According to this publication by the Bee Unit of the Food and Environment Research Agency, UK - 20 minutes emersion in .3% Sodium Hypochlorite (chlorine bleach) will do the trick. 

Caveat Emptor


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

clean and wash the equipment and put it in the sun. EFB is a simple bacteria it dies pretty easy. colorx will not hurt but may not really help. EFB is not a problem with healthy well fed hives efb is not hard to manage,...AFB forms spores that can survive 75 years, the only practical cure is a big fire in a hole and fill the hole in, any contaminated honey honey can spread it easily so burn and destroy any bad honey.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

Have also read several different places that beach works. No need to burn EFB.

Time also works, bacteria on equipment/comb/frames die between one and two years. See link below.

Where did you get your infected bees? Package?

Don't use essential oils EO or products with EOs; it is proven they will get EFB and AFB quicker and worse. 

Lots of EFB misconception; about the spread, contaminated equipment, replacement of queens, goes away with a flow....

https://books.google.com/books?hl=e...epage&q=european foulbrood resistance&f=false


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## coastie (Feb 2, 2015)

FlowerPlanter said:


> Have also read several different places that beach works. No need to burn EFB.
> 
> Time also works, bacteria on equipment/comb/frames die between one and two years. See link below.
> 
> ...


It came with a nuc I got last year. TheI pulled the queen and treated the hive with Terramycin. It seemed like it recovered but died this winter. I put a new package in the deadout to use the remaining honey and get a jump on the comb.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

I started with a mail-order package and made increase off of it for several years before even buying additional queens. I've never brought outside comb into my apiary, but my bees still got EFB somehow. I suspect that it's more or less ubiquitous in the environment, and then just rears it's head when the bees are stressed. It's not all that serious, and pretty easy to deal with though.


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

David LaFerney said:


> I started with a mail-order package and made increase off of it for several years before even buying additional queens. I've never brought outside comb into my apiary, but my bees still got EFB somehow. I suspect that it's more or less ubiquitous in the environment, and then just rears it's head when the bees are stressed. It's not all that serious, and pretty easy to deal with though.


 excellent answer.


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## coastie (Feb 2, 2015)

Thank you all. I am shaking them out tomorrow so I will just scrub up the boxes and let them sun for a couple days.


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## pgayle (Jan 27, 2008)

David LaFerney said:


> ... just rears it's head when the bees are stressed. It's not all that serious, and pretty easy to deal with though.


Well, that's what I thought. It was killing one of mine. I shook out bees and kept the best frames and combined with a really strong colony. That one came down with EFB as well. I caged the queen and treated with TM, but the beetles and moths moved in. 

The one that has survived.. so far.. was treated by completely removing (not caging) the queen, and treating with TM this spring. They raised a new one during the TM treatment. The brood break and TM treatment seems to have worked. As of yesterday they had a nice brood pattern and seem to be on the road to recovery. But I will never again take it lightly. 

My suspicion is that there is a strain out there that is worse than that described in the literature.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

pgayle said:


> My suspicion is that there is a strain out there that is worse than that described in the literature.


That may be the case. Also, when there are other complicating factors - such as high mite loads, or mite related viral disease - you probably need to deal with those things as well to clear it up. Any and all of those things are troublesome at the very least, and can be very serious if not dealt with effectively somehow.


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## rsjohnson2u (Apr 23, 2012)

This comes up every year. I'm in threads from a couple of years ago. Something has changed about EFB, I don't believe the "requeen and a flow" will clear it up. Maybe, it will for one season. Last year, I hived three packages on drawn comb from EFB deadouts from the season before. The hives had been treated with OTC and had "recovered" then died. The drawn comb had been sitting for 6 months. All three packages (from two different suppliers) had EFB by the second brood cycle. 
Two of those survived this winter past after requeen and treat, but showed signs of EFB again during the stress of spring build up. I'll scorch boxes and bleach and sun bathe frames, but I won't reuse drawn wax or feed honey from EFB deadouts. I know, I know, EFB doesn't produce spores, but I can only relate my three year battle with it after it came in on a single nuc some years ago.


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## pgayle (Jan 27, 2008)

rsjohnson2u said:


> .... Something has changed about EFB.


Anyone know if there is currently any USDA or university-level research on this? I think mites are getting the blame for some of what is actually EFB.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

I use to think there was another stain out there as per R. Oliver and a few others suggest. 

After reading G. F. White's study from 1920 and E. F. Phillips from 1918. These persistent traits of this "new strain" are also the same traits of the old strain (before mites, before the global trade...). Leads me to believe that it may not be the disease that has mutated but the myths about the disease. This may have come about because of Varroa and or continental spread of virus that may also look like EFB. 

To further complicate the issue, Australia where they have no mites, one coast get EFB bad that they burn to control it, while the other coast has no EFB. So there may be environmental factors that play a role. Maybe it's as simple as PH of water or nectar sources. Could be what we see here in the US some areas "Almonds" or "Blue Berries" have EFB out breaks and other areas remain EFB free. 

Combined with the fact that EFB has may faces; "Poorly mated queen", "Queen loss", "Laying worker", "Sac brood", "Chalk Brood", "winter loses", "slow growth", "Robbing", "weak hive", "Mites"... All came back positive for EFB. Secondary bacteria may also be clouding a accurate diagnosis. 

Seen with the positives EFB cases with confirmation from the lab, these are the same cases that are persistent and seem to come back due to contamination of the comb.


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

the last i heard was that researchers were looking into a bad strain of something new in the mid west, whatever it is it does not seem widespread. it has been shown that mites are the main problem this is not a question. poor, cool damp weather and poor quality nutrition are the main culprits with EFB. blueberry pollination on the east coast is the classic example. weak over wintered hives, winter stores used up. poor weather, low nectar and pollen yields per unit of area and pollen with poor nutrition value leads toward EFB. a good flow, nice weather and healthy well fed bees do not have a lot of problems with EFB.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

I guess the real question is more like this...

After confirming that AFB is not present what is the best way to deal with equipment and resources from a dead or dying hive that has scrofulous-looking brood which includes signs of EFB? Even if you send a sample for testing you have to do something in the meantime. If you don't want to take ANY chances then burning is the clear answer. Most of us would rather do something else if at all possible.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

pgayle said:


> Anyone know if there is currently any USDA or university-level research on this? I think mites are getting the blame for some of what is actually EFB.


USDA tracks all of the labs that do, and they are seeing increased cases of EFB in there lab. 

"MITES are the cause of everyone's problems" Yes Absolutely I've said this for 3 years now. Mites do take the wrap for a lot of EFB "Melissococcus pluton" confirmed with lab results that 75% of spotty brood is EFB and not mites. Then new beekeeper puts bees in contaminated equipment and get "MITES" again when it's really EFB.

The viruses carried by mites are the number one cause of hive losses. EFB is quite possibly next on the list. But is hides under other "faces" as to not be detected. 

This shows the important of a lab test!

http://www.ars.usda.gov/Main/docs.htm?docid=7472


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

EFB is a bacteria. it is around at low levels a lot, some varroa mites are present in all hives. varroa populations can grow fairly fast and then explode.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

David LaFerney said:


> I guess the real question is more like this...
> 
> After confirming that AFB is not present what is the best way to deal with equipment and resources from a dead or dying hive that has scrofulous-looking brood which includes signs of EFB? Even if you send a sample for testing you have to do something in the meantime. If you don't want to take ANY chances then burning is the clear answer. Most of us would rather do something else if at all possible.


You should be able to determine if it's mites or something else. If it's something else then quarantine until lab results. 

With EFB confirmation, A bleach bath as per above for wood ware, store comb for two years. G. F. White found 1.5 year was sufficient. 

Had success with comb no pollen, any dead brood removed "80% fumigation with glacial acetic acid".


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

mathesonequip said:


> EFB is a bacteria. it is around at low levels a lot, some varroa mites are present in all hives. varroa populations can grow fairly fast and then explode.


Often EFB "Melissococcus pluton" hives have low might counts. Many of the EFB cases here on bee source had low mites and had been treated. EFB is not associated with mites anymore than beetles. It's not like the DWV and mites you can't have one with out the other (can't as in rarely).

"Melissococcus pluton" out breaks have been going on for at least a hundred years before mites and continue to happen in Australia where the have no mite.

In areas where they have no EFB there was no "Melissococcus pluton" present in samples, in areas of high EFB, many hives had bacteria present and did not show symptoms. Probably hiding wait for any one of many stressors. 

From what we seen here is if a beekeeper has one EFB hive he has many with EFB.
"EFB Loves Company"


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## Tim B (Apr 16, 2009)

What I have learned about efb...
Once a hive has a serious infection about half recur later in the year or the next year. There is also a much greater likelihood of a deadout in the fall or winter. 

Best way to knock it out of a hive that shows efb that has a bigger infection is to pull the hive out of production, hit them with a quart of syrup of oxytetracyclene and then once a week for a few weeks. You will see an immediate difference. This is far more effective than powder sugar dust for an active infection. 

Once efb shows up in your apiary use oxytetracyclene mixed with powdered sugar in all hives for weekly for six weeks starting in mid winter, in summer dearth and in the fall. 

Efb is often the cause of even mildly spotty brood patterns. Brood patterns always tighten up when they are getting oxy sugar dust.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Dups!


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

It is the queen. Some are more disease resistant than the other.
Get the more hygienic bees and you will seldom see it in your hive.
I don't see the EFB or the DWVs anymore after getting the allogrooming hygienic bees.


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## Richard Cryberg (May 24, 2013)

beepro said:


> It is the queen. Some are more disease resistant than the other.
> Get the more hygienic bees and you will seldom see it in your hive.
> I don't see the EFB or the DWVs anymore after getting the allogrooming hygienic bees.


Minnesota Hygienics were specifically selected to be immune to American Foul Brood as a result of their hygienic behavior. Yet, tests have shown they deal with EFB no better than normal bees and are totally unable to clean up an EFB infected hive without help from antibiotics. This is not a knock against MH queens. I personally love them.


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## rsjohnson2u (Apr 23, 2012)

What about spotty brood WITHOUT any discolored larvae? No to low mite counts. Sometimes I wonder if workers can be TOO hygienic, and remove brood at the slightest hint of something wrong, leaving a frame with two many open cells for a tight pattern.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Sometimes they are in a dearth situation and the queen will not
lay that many eggs. So the cells are open with a scattering pattern.
Once the Autumn begins with more forage they will resume brood building again.
Over here with our summer dearth if I don't feed with patty subs and honey water the
queens will shut down in eggs production. To keep them going til the early Autumn I have
to feed them after knowing that the newly mated queens have a nice pattern before.
If they are too hygienic then no mite will be left in the hive. A low mite count means that your
bees are not that hygienic to the point that they removed every cap broods. Is the flow on now or
started to wind down a bit now?


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