# simple oxalic acid dribble question



## llgoddj (Apr 11, 2012)

I have read many posts on this method of treating mites, and believe this is my way to go as it seems easy, effective, and not too costly or difficult.

My simple question is all posts state to add 5 ml of the dribble to each of the 10 frames in each hive. I want to know do you remove each box of frames and add to each level, or only to the top box, and let it "dribble down" all the way to the bottom box. I have a couple of hives that are five mediums. Do I add to each of the five mediums in the hive or only to the top medium?

Thanks so much,

Larry


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

Read this page on Randy's site, it should be helpful. 

http://scientificbeekeeping.com/oxalic-dribble-tips/


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

It's my understanding that you dribble/spray each seam (the space between the frames, not the frames themselves) in each box.

One of the issues I have with OAD is the need to pull a multi-box stack apart in cold weather during the broodless period. I don't think it harms the bees to have the boxes pulled apart (i.e. the brief exposure to cold temps), but I find that the broken-apart propolis seals are never as smooth and tight when you re-stack again. For other reasons I have had occasion to pull a few stacks apart very late in the season and it has always been an issue for the rest of the winter afterward. You can make an effort (and I always do) to scrape the top edges of the boxes smooth, but doing that to the bottom edges with a box full 'o bees in cold weather is a royal pain in the neck.

If you were running two 10-frame deep stacks I can see it being easier than vaporizing, but once you get to 5 boxes it sounds like a whole lot more work.

My winter stacks are four boxes high (3 deeps and 1 medium, 10-frame) and the prospect of dribbling _that_ would make me want to skip the whole broodless treatment altogether. Which would be a darn shame because it is the most effective anti-mite treatment of the whole year.

Ask around to find a friend with a vaporizer and use OAV in December. Since it's a one-shot deal at that time of year, it's not too much to ask. I am happy to treat other people's hives - it's not like you're asking them to come to your yard over and over. 

Enj.


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## Rusty Hills Farm (Mar 24, 2010)

I dribble and have done so for awhile. What I do is probably NOT the recommended way, but in late Nov I have a few days that are as close to broodless as my hives seem to get. During that period my hives are all in double deeps. I slide a piece of vinyl under the screen and dribble 5 ml into the 10 seams of the top box and call it good to go. I do not separate the boxes. I always see traces of the mix on the vinyl when I pull it so I'm convinced they are all getting the dose.

Like I said, this is probably NOT what is recommended but my followup sugar shake is always good.

Rusty

Corrected to fix a mis-typed number. I never dribble more than 50 mL per HIVE.


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## TWall (May 19, 2010)

I have done OA dribbles for the past few years. I try to wait for a warmer day between Thanksgiving and Christmas. The bees are still clustered by the cluster is a little 'looser.' I use the 5 ml/seam but not more than 60 ml total, check that before treating. I use Randy Oliver's recommendations. The hive is open just a matter of seconds. This is one reason to give your bees enough, but not excess space. If the cluster is up top or in a single I just tip one end of the inner cover back and treat. For a double I tip the upper box back and treat. 

I think the benefit of the treatment overcomes any deleterious effects.

Tom


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

The recommendation is 5 ml per seam to a maximum of 50 ml per hive. Looks like Rusty is giving 100ml. Over 50 ml is supposed to be hard on bees. However I think if the bees can fly they can deficate some of the residues from the breakdown of the oxalic acid. Alabama being milder in climate than Canada during the winter months he can get away with it and not damage the bees.

Jean-Marc


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Our guys tried variations of the dribble, 
They found doses with less OA, more total treatment did not work, neither did a concentration with less because it was too hard to evenly administer 
The recommended treatment dosage is precisely what is needed and to every seam. Even disturbion is essential. It's the reason vaporizing works so well, as the vapour penetrates all places with the hive


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

But be careful when you dribble. The wrong timing will scorch the stomach of your hives. 
Late fall when the hives are fully fed up and the bees stomachs are full of syrup. The drench is not ingested, but rather groomed around. 
Drench them when they are hungry and you may find trouble


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## Rusty Hills Farm (Mar 24, 2010)

jean-marc said:


> The recommendation is 5 ml per seam to a maximum of 50 ml per hive. Looks like Rusty is giving 100ml. Over 50 ml is supposed to be hard on bees. However I think if the bees can fly they can deficate some of the residues from the breakdown of the oxalic acid. Alabama being milder in climate than Canada during the winter months he can get away with it and not damage the bees.
> 
> Jean-Marc


You are right. I mis-typed. I'll go back and correct that. That's what happens when you get in a hurry! I am sorry for the confusion.

Rusty


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## Rusty Hills Farm (Mar 24, 2010)

Ian said:


> ... and the bees stomachs are full of syrup. The drench is not ingested, but rather groomed around.
> Drench them when they are hungry and you may find trouble


Ian, this is an interesting point. I always smoke 'em hard before I dribble and never lose any bees. I wonder if this is at least part of the reason?

Rusty


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Rusty:

The hard may be part of the reason you do not loose them. I think it is more likely that you kill the varroa with the dribble. Being in Alabama your bees can fly and void the oxalic or it's by products. The guys that have trouble with liquid oxalic are the ones that give 2 dosages as a cleanup treatment just before winter. The ones that only give 1 treatment for winter manage ok but the bees are always slow to start. Those colonies are typically weaker in the spring than colonies that get an oxalic sublimation. Liquid oxalic is pretty fast as well and is much safer to the applicator. No need for a respirator. I want to incorporate a liquid oxalic when we are making up nucs. Day 19 is the day.

Jean-Marc


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## Rusty Hills Farm (Mar 24, 2010)

jean-marc said:


> Rusty:
> 
> ...The ones that only give 1 treatment for winter manage ok but the bees are always slow to start. Those colonies are typically weaker in the spring than colonies that get an oxalic sublimation....
> 
> Jean-Marc


All beekeeping really is local, isn't it? The hives that I treat in November seem to build up faster in the spring. The ones that are mite-free on the sugar shake and therefore don't get that OAD treatment never seem to build up quite as fast until after the treatment I do in March. Then it all seems to even out.

Rusty


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## Delta Bay (Dec 4, 2009)

Ian said:


> But be careful when you dribble. The wrong timing will scorch the stomach of your hives.
> Late fall when the hives are fully fed up and the bees stomachs are full of syrup. The drench is not ingested, but rather groomed around.
> Drench them when they are hungry and you may find trouble


Is this personal experience or is there literature describing this issue? I'm just trying to understand what other option they have to clean it up other than ingesting it.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

I've done a lot of OA dribble treatments at the 3 week window after nucing in the spring and, in that scenario, most definitely does not slow down brood production.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Delta Bay said:


> Is this personal experience or is there literature describing this issue? I'm just trying to understand what other option they have to clean it up other than ingesting it.


You will need to glean that experience for yourself. 
The one common thread to most failures is they probably ingested the syrup


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## llgoddj (Apr 11, 2012)

Mike Gillmore said:


> Read this page on Randy's site, it should be helpful.
> 
> http://scientificbeekeeping.com/oxalic-dribble-tips/


thanks


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## llgoddj (Apr 11, 2012)

thanks so much


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## TWall (May 19, 2010)

jim lyon said:


> I've done a lot of OA dribble treatments at the 3 week window after nucing in the spring and, in that scenario, most definitely does not slow down brood production.


Jim,

When will you treat those nucs again, and with what? I have just been doing winter OA dribbles the past few years and am happy so far. I have been thinking of doing a MAQS treatment but timing is a little more tricky, August temps can be kind of high.

Tom


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

TWall said:


> Jim,
> 
> When will you treat those nucs again, and with what? I have just been doing winter OA dribbles the past few years and am happy so far. I have been thinking of doing a MAQS treatment but timing is a little more tricky, August temps can be kind of high.
> 
> Tom


These are southern nucs treated on checkbacks in early to mid April. That gets you through most of the summer without mite numbers spiking. Our state inspector pulled 12 samples out of three yards in early August and averaged just over 2 mites per sample, though typically we will run a bit higher than that. This year we started with thymol in early August and finished up with an OA dribble in October. Seems to have done the trick...... this year.


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