# Electric Fence Ground Rods? 3 Needed?



## irishmick (Mar 10, 2015)

Hi all, I've got my posts in for my electric fence and I'm installing the wire and ground rod/rods tomorrow. Do I really need 3 if the fenced area is like 10 x 20? Seems like huge overkill, but I don't know much about electric fences. I imagine the 3 are for better ground if one isn't in wet soil and such or no?

Thanks for anyone who can answer the question or any other advice relating to an electric fence.

Thanks.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

A key issue in making an electric fence work properly is to have a properly grounded connection point for the (ground) terminal of the charger. Whether 3 ground rods is required depends on your particular soil.

One simple thing that you can do, assuming that your fence posts are steel Tee posts, or other steel posts, is to run a separate ground wire that is directly attached (no insulators) to each fence post, and also connected to your regular ground rods. As the connected steel posts are all set in the ground, they collectively improve your grounding system


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## irishmick (Mar 10, 2015)

Perfect. I'll do that and attach each t post to ground as well. Thanks!

On another note can I just test it with a multimeter or do I really need to buy a specific fence tester?

*edit heh nevermind I just looked up my multimeter and it'll only do 1000 DC volts.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

I'm really cheap.  Too cheap to buy a fence tester. 


I scrounged an old ignition spark plug wire and spark plug. I bent some stiff wire into a hook shape and wired the other end to the coil connection of the spark plug wire. Put the spark plug in its connector and you have a fence tester.  The hook goes to a ground wire (or grounded Tee post), and put the threads of the plug on the 'hot' fence wire. Or flip those around - it doesn't matter which end goes to 'hot'. Make sure you hold the insulated hood of the spark plug wire - not the plug itself. If you get a spark, its working. Adjust the spark plug gap to whatever you want to judge the relative strength at that location on the fence. If you are really gung-ho you could have several spark plugs set to different gaps.


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## irishmick (Mar 10, 2015)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> I'm really cheap.  Too cheap to buy a fence tester.


Me also lol ~

Thanks for the tip. I'm pretty sure I have something around I can scrounge up to test it


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

I use two, about six feet apart.


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## irishmick (Mar 10, 2015)

Thanks Adam. If 1 isn't sufficient that'll be my next step.


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

Hey Mick, I have a son at UMD so I have been up there a few times lately. How deep is your soil before you hit that dark grey rock?


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## wdale (Jun 27, 2014)

irishmick
Are you using the Electric fence as a BEAR fence??? What I have done up north part or remote areas, was to get a roll of Chicken wire the wire with 2X2 inch hex holes. Laid flat all around on top of ground about 6-8 inches out from your electric fence. I used Tent pegs to hold down the Chicken wire mat. Be sure to tie the Chicken wire together if you are using more than 1 roll to go around the whole out side of your fenced area. Then attach your ground wire to the mat. This method that I used is because I have found that "Dryer soils" do not conduct electric current as well as wet soils. I have seen this work to scare the bears away because they are standing on the mat and trying to get into the wire strands. They sure get a jolt of electric charge.


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## irishmick (Mar 10, 2015)

Adrian - I'm not sure how deep our soil is at our cabin. It's pretty gravelly and where I'm putting the bees is on a small (20 ft) rise near a cedar swamp so hopefully I can drive the ground rid deep enough.

WDale - yeah our topsoil can tend to dry out in this area. I'm planning on putting the ground rod in and supplementing with chicken wire as you said in a month or so, less hopefully.
Thanks.


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## wdale (Jun 27, 2014)

irishmick 
yes a ground rod would be good as it could reach wetter soils down deeper now that depends how deep your soil goes before you hit rock the ground rod does not have to be vertical you could drive in at an angle to suit the depth


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## irishmick (Mar 10, 2015)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> I'm really cheap.  Too cheap to buy a fence tester.
> 
> 
> I scrounged an old ignition spark plug wire and spark plug. I bent some stiff wire into a hook shape and wired the other end to the coil connection of the spark plug wire. Put the spark plug in its connector and you have a fence tester.  The hook goes to a ground wire (or grounded Tee post), and put the threads of the plug on the 'hot' fence wire. Or flip those around - it doesn't matter which end goes to 'hot'. Make sure you hold the insulated hood of the spark plug wire - not the plug itself. If you get a spark, its working. Adjust the spark plug gap to whatever you want to judge the relative strength at that location on the fence. If you are really gung-ho you could have several spark plugs set to different gaps.



After thinking about this, wouldn't this just indicate that 12 volts is getting through? If we are talking about thousands of volts how do I determine if my fence is putting out enough volts to deter a bear rather than just tickle his fancy?  and rather than me testing it.. Ouch.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

There won't be a spark if the voltage is only 12 volts. Even a cheap charger should be putting out several thousands of volts onto the hot wire. The maximum size of the gap that a spark can jump is a _rough _ relative measure of the voltage available.

A 'spark plug' tester is really a "go/no go" tester. If a spark jumps the gap that you have set, then everything is OK. If there is no spark, then there is a problem. Its up to you to decide what size gap is appropriate for your situation and fence charger.

Or just buy a commercial tester. 

.


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## Agis Apiaries (Jul 22, 2014)

A regular multi-meter won't work on your fence. Been there, done that. If you really want to know, get a fence tester. They aren't all that expensive.


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## irishmick (Mar 10, 2015)

Lol ok thanks rader.

Agis thanks. I'm leaning that route. I'd rather save the cash but I'd hate to put up an inefficient fence and have my hives destroyed.


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## Andrew Dewey (Aug 23, 2005)

daisy chaining ground rods = good
saving your pennies for a digital fence meter = good too (trying to watch the lights in sun is a pain!)


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

I use two ground rods. One at the fencer, and one at the opposite corner of the fence. I run fence wire along the ground...staple it to the ground with pieces of fence wire bent into a "U". That second ground rod is connected to the lightning arrestor...you are planning on using a lightning arrestor, aren't you?


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

I use two ground rods as recommended by the energizer manufacturer. I also let the t-posts act as auxiliary ground rods. No lightning arrestor here, I'm living dangerously


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## Michael B (Feb 6, 2010)

All about your soil. Some out yards on clay soil have one 6' rod. My home yard on sand has 6 rods and could use more. The grounding is so poor I am tempted to buy GEM material.


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## Boomhawr (Jul 28, 2014)

The dtier the soil the more you need to ground.

You can also add a ground wire strand, hoojed to the charges ground port eith the cable going to the rod, running along withe the hot wire strand. Then the critters hit both and have a shorter path to ground. (I used to work at a farm supply store years ago, and this was recommended by one of the fence charger manufacturers).


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## Boomhawr (Jul 28, 2014)

See the second image here: 
http://www.zarebasystems.com/learning-center/all-about/grounding/one-or-two-wires


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## Cottonwood (Apr 16, 2013)

I have a challenge installing ground rods due to ledge. I have used the two wire method and have had good luck so far. I use 5 wires with three being "hot" and two being grounds. You alternate the "hot" and grounging wires so contact with two wires sends a shock even if the ground is very dry. I just installed a fence at a new yard today and attached a photo below. Not saying this is the best method, but it has worked for me so far. Best of luck.


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## irishmick (Mar 10, 2015)

Just wanted to say thanks everyone who responded. I drove an 8' foot ground rod 6' into the ground. I either hit a massive rock or bedrock and that's about all she wrote. I ended up buying a fi-shock tester for less than $10 and I'm getting 4000+ volts.


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

Keep testing throughout the season. A good ground in spring can become a lousy ground in dry weather. Here's a yard I set up yesterday:


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## bbbthingmaker (Sep 26, 2010)

Simple, cheap, effective fence tester. Pull a long ( one foot or more) green stem of grass .Strip off the leaves. Hold it at one end and touch the other end to the fence. If you feel a tingle the fence is working. Slowly slide the stem up the fence, shortening the distance between your hand and the wire. The shorter the distance, the less resistance, the greater the shock. If you are well insulated, wearing rubber soled shoes on dry ground, you may not get any shock.


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## irishmick (Mar 10, 2015)

Lol when I was using the $10 fi shock tester I could feel the hairs on my hand/arm standing up. I've always tested dog collars and such on myself first, this may be something ill let the dog bump first. 

When I was younger a buddy and I went fishing. We had to drive through a cow pasture to get to the river, unbeknownst to me when I opened my door the edge of my door hit the fence. My buddy jumped out and as he shut the door on his side screamed like a little girl, well more like a little girl who's dad was a sailor I suppose. I'll never forget that nor do I want to experience it lol.


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## jbuzz (Jan 27, 2015)

:lpf:


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## Angiebubs (Apr 16, 2015)

Great information-thanks for all the details. Just learned that the .14 joules we have going currently won't phase bear...so ordering something stronger soon.
So I am more afraid of forgetting to turn the darn fence off than I am of getting stung! Have any of you forgotten to turn yours off before heading into the hives? Shoot..I get so excited/distracted with the hives...I think I need to have a large blinking red light to remind me lol


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## marshmasterpat (Jun 26, 2013)

Hehehee - There are some 36 joules chargers out there. They will arc about 1/4 inch to live grass stems when there is lots of dew or humidity. You can hear it arcing when there is fog out. We are in heavy clay and the guy using these chargers for cattle (and bulls) only has one grounding rod at the charger. But that 36 joule will light you up (or make you think you are lighting up). Used to have cross that fence to go goose hunting. Yikes. 

Irishmick - Good one.


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## davidsbees (Feb 22, 2010)

I have not yet used a ground rod just 3' hog wire as a ground mat. I also use the 12v parmak it is about 3 joules and about 13,000 volt that is what you need to discourage a bear. I've seen where a bear dug a hole the size of VW bug under the fence and just shredded the chicken wire. I just put together a 3 joule 12V speedrite with 3-14hr gel cells and a 10 watt solar panel with controller. I have a stubborn bear!


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## davidsbees (Feb 22, 2010)

Most of my fences I use hog wire but on this one I alternately put ground and hot I think the bear got shocked and bolted through the fence and short it out. Going to rebuild it with hog wire.


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## BadBeeKeeper (Jan 24, 2015)

irishmick said:


> I...hit a massive rock or bedrock and that's about all she wrote.


For those that have ledge/bedrock close to the surface, burying the ground rod horizontally will also work. In dry conditions, urinating on the soil in the area of the ground rod will [temporarily] improve its performance (old Army trick not included in the Field Manual, and not necessarily useful if you don't have a whole squad of people available to constantly refresh the electrolyte).


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## marshmasterpat (Jun 26, 2013)

Davids - Hate to see that, hope things can be salvaged. Might be 30-30 time in the fall season. 

If the soil is really dry or shallow, would adding a cup of "Terra-sorb" to the soil around the grounding rob help. It sucks in moisture and swells from BB size to pea size with the water it absorbs. Use it to plant stuff during the dry seasons. But it does break down over a year and not longer functions. Might help in dry areas. Might be a dumb idea. Dry soil just doesn't happen here.


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

Here's a fence tester that I discovered quite by accident: Bend over with your rear close to the fence and a metal utility knife in your back pocket.

Wayne


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

I once had a couple of hives on a property in the next town over that had been hit by bears. The owner agreed to put an electric fence up and I was delighted. The deal was that we'd split the honey and he loved bees so it was supposed to be a good deal for the both of us. He did put the fence up but never connected it. I got pretty used to just grabbing the fence wire and stepping over it that it became habit. One day, I walked out to the hives and grabbed the wire just like I always did. BUT, he had connected it and it was a thrilling experience. I have to give him credit as he had left me not one, not two but three voice mails that I never picked up. He even put a sign up but I cut around the back and never saw it. And....after all that, a bear just knocked it all down one fall evening and had at the hives. I moved the colonies and we laugh about it every time I see him.


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## irishmick (Mar 10, 2015)

lol god I love these stories. Well not the bear parts, but the unintentional zapps yes.


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

Pat, David, others who might try it -

A 30-30 in not sufficient for bear. Black bear - .30/'06 Springfield with at least a 150 grain slug should be considered minimum, preferably in a lever action or semi-automatic. Grizzly - 375 H&H mag is preferred, or shotgun with a rifled slug. An experienced bear guide may choose a .338 Winchester Mag or similar, but Griz' will likely require 4 or more shots to drop.

Back on topic - welded stallion fence makes a better physical fence, with an electric fence outside it to serve as behavior modification add-on. Camera flash and a loud banging sound or a recording of dogs barking also help drive bears off at night.


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

in poor ground areas, usually ledge, use rock salt around the ground rod and sprinkled a for one to three feet outside the fence. it really helps and is not expensive.


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

we talked about this at our monthly [small group] bee meeting this week some of the beekeepers are inside the blue line [adirondac mountain park]. once a bear gets the desire for honey you can not stop them, shoot the bear or better yet move the bees. if a bear is curious the electric fence will drive them away and keep them away until they have been into a bee tree. when setting up your fence keep it well away from the hives, they can reach thru the fence. do not put the bees under any trees the bears will climb, lean the tree and drop in. when done with their feast thy will charge the fence to get out.


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## markus (Oct 22, 2013)

Michael Palmer said:


> I use two ground rods. One at the fencer, and one at the opposite corner of the fence. I run fence wire along the ground...staple it to the ground with pieces of fence wire bent into a "U". That second ground rod is connected to the lightning arrestor...you are planning on using a lightning arrestor, aren't you?


I am hooking up a fencer at a new outyard today. Michael, your staple idea is brilliant! Thanks


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