# Mann Lake Patties



## Sherpa1 (Dec 10, 2005)

Following a post about Mann Lake's brewers yeast being from China, I sent an inquiry to the company and received the following reply from Sherri at Mann Lake. She requested that I post this to the board:
"Our regular beepro patties (and dry Bee Pro) are made from USA products. The natural irradited pollen (found in the 4% or 15% natural pollen patties) is from China as there is no USA pollen available at feed prices. Keith Jarrett has posted a blog on Beesource stating that the totes of brewers yeast were from China. This is not the case as our brewers yeast is from MN and MI. We did find out that the fabric bags themselves are sourced from China and do have the 'product of China' label. Our soy flour is sourced from an organic cooperative here in the mid-west and are grown from non-GMO seed. I have tried to set up an account so that I can officially set the record straight but keep getting this message
"Your account has been activated but you are currently in the moderation queue to be added to the forum."
If you were able to post the above information I would greatly appreciate it."

Hope that this helps.


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## golddust-twins (Sep 8, 2007)

Sherpa1, thank you for this information as I do use these patties.

golddust-twins


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## Sherpa1 (Dec 10, 2005)

You are welcome. I also had concerns after buying these patties. Glad to know that the information about the brewers yeast coming from China was not correct.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

I'm a little confused. You were concerned about the brewers yeast, but are giving a pass on the pollen?
Using a foreign pollen source because no "feed price" stuff means what? That they could of bought American made, but it was not cheap enough? I wonder if people give a pass to Wal-mart for excuses like this.

I'm a big fan of MannLake. But I would of been happy to hear that ALL their ingredients were from the U.S. Not just the ones that made the cut in profitability and cost analysis.

And this says nothing about the bags they buy. What, nobody in the U.S. makes bags suitable for repackaging some brewers yeast?

So they mention three items. One from the U.S. because its cheap. Two other products are from China. And now some are "glad' to hear this.

I guess it takes little to sell your soul....


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

Makes me a bit nervous too. "Irradiated pollen" from China.... how do we know if this is pure? It may be irradiated, but what other deleterious material may be mixed in with it? 

And who is monitoring this pollens' purity? Hope it's not the same comatose guys that were testing our imported dog food ingredients from China.


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## Sherpa1 (Dec 10, 2005)

Bjorn,
I guess now you want to get on my case for "giving a pass on the pollen". You are right, I gave a pass on the pollen. I bought the BeePro patties without pollen. And while we are judging people, you are one of the ones who propagated the information that Mann Lake's ingredients came from China, based upon what Keith had posted (see Pollen substitute question thread, your post dated 10-5-2007 2:48pm).
I simply posted information supplied by Mann Lake to correct misinformation that had been posted here. If you have a problem with who supplies Mann Lake's bags or pollen, take it up with them, not with me.
Bjorn, you don't know me so don't denigrate me with your "selling your soul" comment. I think that it speaks more to your character that you posted inaccurate information without verifying it, than it does to my character for purchasing some patties. Oh, and let me know when you write that letter of apology to Mann Lake.


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## JC (Jun 3, 2006)

*Communist China's Food*

I called Mann Lake and I got the same message. I am satisfied that Mann Lake is truthful in their disclosures. Now I can make some intelligent decisions. 

I always ask for the country of origin for food, including what I feed my bees. If I do not see the country of origin, I do not buy. I will not buy any food from Communist China, including irradiated pollen. The communist definition of truth is whatever furthers their goals. I also will not buy any GMO food. I do not buy corn, for example, unless the label states that it is non GMO. 

I am glad to hear that the yeast in Mann Lake’s “Bee Pro” patties is organic and non GMO. The USDA has a very strict definition of the word, “organic.” I trust that label. I will continue to buy Mann Lake’s “Bee Pro” patties, but I will not buy their pollen patties until they use irradiated American pollen.


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## Sherpa1 (Dec 10, 2005)

Bjorn,
Quote from your 10-5-2007 post:
"I hear Mann lake buys ingredients in their patties from China, and global patties are not made in the U.S." There it is in black and white, Bjorn.
Although you did not originate this China question, I think that posting that you had heard this is propagating the misinformation. Can you at least see how this post might give someone cause to think that what you heard was true? For me at least, it gave me enough concern to contact the company. 
"Lies", "crap", "scum", come now, Bjorn.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Sherpa,
Nice try. Anyone at this point taking the time to actually read my comments and the posts listed, will see that your taking a sentence or two out of context and is a sad ploy on your part. I think others can see the entire picture.

I made a comment with a question mark, and made another saying "I hear"...all the while supporting, promoting, and suggesting to many my pleasure with MannLake products. I also openly defended MannLake against the comments about them importing Chinese pollen. And made statements just a day ago defending Mannlake and stating their pollen sub was NOT from China.

I'll leave my comments stand. Anyone reading them can see the entire picture, rather than your distorted, narrow minded comments that are wrong.


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## Sherpa1 (Dec 10, 2005)

Bjorn,
I think that your intentions were clear. Your make comments that you "hear" that Mann lake uses ingredients from China. You even get a jab in there at Global patties. At the same time you are promoting the products that you sell as "made in the U.S." You did not correct your China comments until after I exposed that they were incorrect (damage control?) and then did not correct them all. You then attack me for "selling my soul", because I am OK with Mann lake using bags from China. You could have just left it as you heard some wrong information. You could have just promoted the value of your product. Instead you attack me. This is your pattern on this forum and most are aware of it. You got caught with your pants down and now you are angry. Yes, nice try.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Sherpa, 

Why doesn't Sherri Hane of Mann Lake post? She is good enough to PM me about all of this on this form. She can pm me but not publicly post?

We don't need you Sherpa, with all due repect as a third party.

The fact of the matter is that four keepers that bought those totes of BREWERS all thought it came from CHINA as there was no other country or state listed, That's leads one to believe it's from China.

There should have been a lable telling you where it was from.

You should take a look at "hardware equipment" tread. That is if Mann Lake is so concerned about there reputation.

Bjorn, Mann lake can post if they choose to, they have no problems PM me on this form.


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## Bizzybee (Jan 29, 2006)

She said that her account is pending. She can send you messages without being able to post. We just went through this with another new user this past week.

I have done a load of business with ML and they have never been anything less than up front with me. And answered every question that was asked.

I personally have no reason to believe that Sherpa's post for her was not in good faith. That given, she said what she needed to say. Like it or leave it. There's no gun to anyones head to buy it.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Sherpa,
Yes, I heard Mannlake was getting pollen from china. I also stated what I had found out and stated so.

Yes, I did get a jab in about global patties. I believe this was about a day after so many were commenting on global patties. Sorry if I promote American made products. You'll have to excuse me on that. I know you don't care, but I do. And if you had a product and failed to mention that it was 100% U.S.A made, you would be a fool.

I did correct my comments. I made posts on the matter after i made phone calls myself and have comments as such. I don't go back and usually erase comments because I made a mistake. I don't erase history. But I did make my knowledge known.

"You then attack me...." is this somehow all connected? I made a wrong comment, I questioned you, I got caught with my pants down, I failed to correct posts from a week ago, I was angry, and decided to "wag the dog" and attack you to side step the issue... 

Whats next, a conspiracy theory? Way too many dots being connected.

I simply questioned your [edit by mod] feeling knowing the brewers yeast is from the U.S. [edit by mod]


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

I hope at this point, nobody is doubting MannLake's credibility or truthfulness. Their product (brewers yeast)is from the U.S.

If she wants to get on board and discuss maybe getting the rest of their products from the U.S., I think that would be great.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Bizzybee said:


> She said that her account is pending. She can send you messages without being able to post.


I checked her status and she is fully registered with full posting abilities. If one can PM, then one has made it through all the registration hoops and is a member. 

- Barry


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## Bizzybee (Jan 29, 2006)

My bad. That was the same thing that was happening with Safet the other day. I missed something somewhere.

I wish they would too BB, USA I mean. The US pollen is only about $6.50 a pound more than the Chinese.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Sherpa,

Maybe this will help you out. 

My last invoice from MannLake was dated 9/26/07 invoice number 318007

I buy from MannLake and openly support them. I also am a big fan of Dadant.

And for as much business I pass on to Dadant, I do not, and will never promote their plastic foundation. I tell people to go to Pierco. I can openly support a company and yet trash a particular product. And if they want people like me to sell word of mouth their foundations, then quit importing cheap crap!

I also support Mannlake. But as a customer of theirs, I will make my opinions known. And I think everyone not only has a right to do that, but should. Its the only way that anything will ever change. By consumers making informed decisions and thinking with their wallets, can make changes.

Someone last week emailed me from the beesource and asked if I was the same guy selling pollen sub on ebay. I said yes. He asked why I didn't post it on the beesource "for sale" forum. I said I did once about 6 months ago, but its probably buried about ten pages back. Perhaps one day I will "bump" it up.

If you think I'm somehow trashing someone due to motives of profit, you are sadly mistaken. I think I may have mentioned twice recently about myself selling pollen sub on ebay. And I believe this was after making a comment about hating to make patties and promoting MannLakes patties for those who wanted patties.

So please, my comments are from a thought provoking angle. I do want people to ask questions. I do want them to consider where this stuff comes from. I do want to see more American made products, and less Chinese stuff.

I originally asked why it matters for one component of the product to be American made, and the others it seems to matter little. I don't get it. Sorry if that rubbed you.

I have openly praised MannLake many times on this board as being one of the only major supplement providers that provide ANY nutrition information. I applaude them for that. But I only see part of the picture. I would love for them to list the same for pollen. And if by discussions such as this they rethink buying pollen or bags, or whatever, from an American company, then its a good thing.

How many knew their pollen AND bags are bought from China? We did learn something.

We can all point fingers all day long. MannLake themselves committed a deadly sin for any business. They allowed a repackaged product to go out with labels stamped "made in China". That's not Keith's fault for assuming the tag meant what it said, or for any of us to talk about it afterwards. Obviously some thought it may of been odd and made some phone calls. Myself, I don't call a company and ask them to tell me what I want to hear. I called the company that supplies them the brewers yeast. I know somebody who works there. I'm a pessimist when it comes to any business' marketing comments.

I think its great that this discussion is going on. And I would be saying the same thing whether I was selling something or not. My comments don't change based on profit. They are based on principle, morals, beliefs, and other factors. When nobody cares where the pollen comes from, or where the bags are bought, or where the brewers yeast is made, then we all lose. I think it does matter. I'm not going to settle on one out of three. It may never be three out of three, but not caring is not an option.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Here are my recent posts that are being used to suggest I promoted or propagated negative comments about MannLake.

My original post on page one was erased. These show the comments and threads mentioned by Sherpa.

Here is a post showing myself acknowledging MannLake does not use Chinese pollen.
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213759&highlight=MannLake&page=8

Here is the nasty, nasty post that was referenced. You will notice I had questioned the part about MannLake buying from China. And I also noted that “I “hear”… A far cry from the claims lodged against me. 
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213859&highlight=MannLake

Here’s a self promotion after I mentioned pollen patties from MannLake.
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213792&highlight=MannLake

I'm not going to call out anyone. But I was hardly the one to blame or attach some ill-will in suggesting I was propagating false rumors and claims against MannLake.

I'll let the readers decide. This part is what missing from page one if you lost track of what was being said.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Bjorn, Can you answer this or do I understand this correctly.

These bags had Chinese bee pollen in them, it was removed by Mann Lake, then refilled with Brewers yeast and sent to me with the tags still on them.

Is this whats going on here, Can anybody tell me???


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

From what I gather, and I must be clear as SOME may misinterpret what I say..

The company that supplies brewers yeast supplies it in two packages. 2000 pound totes, and 50 pound bags. The bags have the company's name and printed material. I would not blame someone for not sending out that bag with info on it. The totes are bulk totes and would need to be repackaged into other "generic" bags with or without any printed info. 

I assume that they are repackaging the tote material and using a bag supplier that happens to have a label that says "made in china". I think they really messed up by allowing their product to be shipped in bags with this label.

The repackaging comment I made earlier to you had me thinking about the possibility of reusing the totes. My bad. I was thinking one thing and typing another.


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## MapMan (May 24, 2007)

BjornBee said:


> So please, my comments are from a thought provoking angle. I do want people to ask questions. I do want them to consider where this stuff comes from. I do want to see more American made products, and less Chinese stuff.


Oops. Another classic case of innuendo...

Well, folks - if you buy pollen, what is the country of origin? If you aren't willing to buy Chinese produced pollen, would you be willing to buy your pollen from another non-USA source? Or, do you only consider USA ingredients in your mix? 

This is a serious business question... I do understand that China has received bad press, especially lately with recalls, etc. which questions their quality, environmental conditions and factors and processes which might have a bearing on "undisclosed" ingredients in some of their exports. I don't see that their pollen has actually been recalled, based on laboratory test results, but I do understand the "fear" factor which is based on some of the country's export issues.

So, what is your source of pollen? And, would you consider another non-USA source, besides China? Or, do you only buy USA?

MM


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

MM.
I don't understand your innuendo comment or the importance.


You asked twice "Do you only buy USA? And whether one would buy from another non-USA company.

Not sure the connection.

But as for me, I have hammered over and over again the same points.

1)Its good to know the source of origin of the ingredients of these products. I, as well as any other consumers have the right to ask. If a company feels the need to not answer consumer questions, or is hiding in some attempt to not allow this information to come forward, then they must also accept any backlash along the way.

2)Nutritional analysis of any product should be clear and stated. Up till now, the bee industry accepts the fact that pollen substitutes are marketed based solely on price or many times grapevine chatter. MannLake is the only one that discloses or even makes an attempt to give nutritional advice and information. But its not enough.

3)Not all pollen is nutritionally sound for bees. We not only have no analysis of the pollen being marketed to us, but it certainly is not revealed to anyone that the stuff comes from China, until discussions like this happens and people make an effort to find information.

4)I do want to support made in the USA products. If I can buy American or buy Chinese, then its American. Its funny if how I mentioned I sell cheap prepackaged honey I import, then everyone and their brother would be ready to jump down my throat. Many threads here on beesource have commented on honey dumping, contamination, and the impact on the honey market. But now we talk of pollen, and its almost like it matters to nobody. Its just "Give it to me cheap!"

You can rationalize that because no pollen has been recalled, that it's much to do about nothing. I don't stop at this weakly drawn line in the sand. I can't say its bad, and certainly there's been no recall. But how anyone can ASSUME its GOOD, is beyond me. I ask for nutritional information. I ask for guaranteed analysis minimums. And if I can get that from anything else from dog food to baby food, why can't we "demand" the same for our industry. Only by bringing this stuff to light will anything better come about.

Asking whether someone would buy from China or another country misses the point. The point is that the origin of these products should be listed so consumers can make informed decisions. Its should not be that the information is secretively kept, and somehow rationalized by questions such as this. I'll start by buying products that tell me whats in them, then perhaps questions of origin can be answered. Who cares WHERE it came from, if you don't know whats in it. I would ask the same questions about something from Kansas!

Throwing fear into it, is also a little off. "Fear" should not be equated with accepting an industry that wants you to buy products on faith. I don't do that. Its not fear. Its good commonsense and logic. To even suggest that asking these questions are based on fear is wrong. I want to know what I'm feeding my bees, period. Whats in the pollen, whats the nutritional values, and where is it made? Absolutely nothing wrong with these questions. I find it disheartening that some would accept anything less.

Am I as anal as you somehow suggest by asking "do you only consider USA ingredients in your mix?" No. But I am not really sure what the constructive value of this question is. There may be no other sources for some products. At the end of the day, there may be no options. But til now, How many knew pollen in MannLake products were from China? Who knows the nutritional values of what they are buying? Becuase of conversation like this, Mannlake has done something that till now nobody in the bee community has done. Thats be up front and actually say where this stuff is coming from.

When we get to the point beyond being marketed "unknown stuff in unlabeled brown paper sacks"......get back to me on your questions. Right now, your questions are a bit further on "page two".


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

MapMan said:


> Oops. So, what is your source of pollen? And, would you consider another non-USA source, besides China? Or, do you only buy USA?
> 
> MM


MM, If you know how to make a good sub you don't need pollen.


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## MapMan (May 24, 2007)

BjornBee - 

I didn't intend to poke the hornet's nest with a stick. I'm not asking you (or anyone for that matter) for a diatribe, as this has been hashed out ad nauseam, and I don't have time to read long discourses.

Just two simple questions -- I am inquiring so I can assess a possible business venture.

1) If you buy pollen, what is the country of origin?

2) If you aren't willing to buy Chinese produced pollen, would you be willing to buy your pollen from another non-USA source?

MM


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

MM,
1) USA
2)Maybe. Can I find out the sources? Nutritional values? I said if I had a choice, I'd buy American. Don't confuse that with assuming I am not willing to buy Chinese. I have said however I would not buy products on faith, regardless of where they came from. 

Your little comments about long discourses and diatribes shows a lack of understanding of open forums. You may of asked the questions, but my reply is for ALL to read, even those who may be reading such information for the FIRST time.


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## rapid524 (Mar 2, 2006)

This has been an excellant topic. As a small (4 acre) organic fruit and vegetable grower who also keeps bees, I am very interested in where my supplies come from. 

We are members of our local farmers market that only allows locally grown products and we also sell to a two stores of a regional grocery chain that promotes our produce as locally grown. We buy local even if the price is a bit higher and buy US made if at all possible.


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

Barry said:


> I checked her status and she is fully registered with full posting abilities. If one can PM, then one has made it through all the registration hoops and is a member.
> 
> - Barry


Perhaps Sherpal (sherri's pal) is really Sherri? I gues anything is possible.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Bill, that could very well be.

My self I have loss much respect for them at Mann Lake.


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## Sherpa1 (Dec 10, 2005)

Bill and Keith,
I can assure you that Sherpa1 is not Sherri. At the time that she tried to post, she received the message that she listed. That does not mean that at some later time she did not receive full posting privileges. Apparently she wanted to get the correct information posted as soon as possible and asked for my help in doing so.


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## Sherri (Oct 5, 2007)

Hello All,

When I received my posting privileges, I started a new thread as I didn't find this one right away. I am new to this and just learning my way around the forum. Wow, what a lively group you are!

At Mann Lake we do make every attempt to please our customers and yet still provide a quality product at a fair price. For example, while other companies do produce plastic frames abroad, we manufacture both our standard plastic frames (much like pierco but with a double topbar), our Rite Cell and our Rite Cell Proframe in the good old USA.

Some of our customers wanted a patty option with natural pollen. Personally, since you cannot ever guarantee protein content with natural pollen, I always use the plain patties so I know that I am feeding consistent, proper amino acid based nutrition, ready to go bee bread if you will. After researching the market and pricing (and discussing the price point and economic value to the primary customers who specifically wanted this added to their patties), we looked into US pollen. Because of the human consumption of pollen in the US, there is not a ready supply (container loads) of pollen even available to purchase at any price. The customers who wanted us to make this kind of patty for them were consulted and said they would accept Chinese pollen provided it was adequately irradiated here in the US and so we complied. I know that the strict USA buyers can pick and choose the products they purchase and we will always disclose the country of origin for products that we sell. We also export beekeeping supplies all over the world and have a world market for both buying and selling. Personal opinions aside, we can all make our own choices given honest information without forcing others to believe as we do. This is AMERICA after all, where we have freedoms that others can only dream about.

Thank you for all of your comments,

Sherri


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## Brooklyn (Nov 14, 2009)

Sherpa I was told you would know a good dealer to buy bees from near Columbia SC.
I would like to buy Nuc's Medium's

Possiable Russians


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## ga.beeman (Mar 29, 2009)

Carl Webb NE Ga. www.mtnhoney.com


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## JonEdangerousli (May 8, 2007)

Are either of the Webbs members here? I can't seem to find an email address on their site...


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

The email address is at the bottom of the home page.


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## JonEdangerousli (May 8, 2007)

Oops. Had the browser window a little off the screen. 

How embarrassing. :doh:


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## SwedeBee1970 (Oct 26, 2008)

Here is some interesting info about irradiated pollen. http://www.honeybee.com.au/Library/Beefeeds.html


Having read all the hoopla said so far, I guess we can all agree to disagree. Some countries are good at what they do and must be respected for it. For instance, I get my Green Tea from China. It's been tradition for thousands of years. This is my opinion: The underlying cause of the hatred towards China are directly related to those who love to buy CHEAP products from them, namely businesses.


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