# My Project for Year 3



## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

I don't have a lot of experience but didnt find it that hard to raise queens.
After a couple try's you'll have a better idea what works well for you.

I wouldn't let the mean hive raise drones it might not matter but couldn't hurt to give them a drone frame and kill them before they hatch.


----------



## KevinR (Apr 30, 2010)

grozzie2 said:


> ...put her with a frame of bees into a nuc, for storage...
> 
> I should have a row of capped cells on the bottom of that frame
> 
> Is this a viable plan, or, is it flawed in some way I dont see ?


If she truly is mean, I wouldn't bother with saving her.

I normally go through my starter/finisher hive and move all the eggs/young brood together. This concentrates the nurse bees and makes finding rogue cells easier. But don't assume that you found every egg. I've had queen cells on a frame of capped brood.

I tend to leave my starter queenless for more than 1 day before I put in the grafts. The bees don't always take to the new cells, but I've also had good results putting in grafts seconds after pulling the queen.

Also, I feel the this gives me a better chance to find and strike down their cells. IMO, you want them be hopelessly queenless for best results. If they have the chance, or the larva is better. They will not draw out yours.

24-48 hours after you put the cells into the starter, you need to go through the entire box looking fro started queen cells. These need to be scraped, other wise your pretty cells will get destroyed by a rogue.

You need to keep the bees well fed during drawing the cells. Whether through nectar flow or syrup.

For Queen Calendar.
http://www.thebeeyard.org/queen-rearing-calendar/


----------



## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

grozzie2 said:


> On saturday, I'll graft into the cups on the bottom of the medium frame, then put that frame into the hive which is now queenless. I'm thinking, it's a full size queenless hive, so should do fine as a cell builder. Am I missing something here, or, is this the right approach ?


Why would the bees choose to use your larvae for cell building, when they have larvae of their own, in their own comb, already being cared for by nurse bees.


----------



## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

Michael Palmer said:


> Why would the bees choose to use your larvae for cell building, when they have larvae of their own, in their own comb, already being cared for by nurse bees.


This is why I am asking. So, I am guessing that what you mean is I should leave them for a few days, then scrape any cells they have, to go from queenless to hopelessly queenless. Or am I missing something else?


----------



## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Have you read anything on cell building methods? Most use a queenless starter of one kind or another. Personally, I would never graft into a colony that has open brood present. I suppose making them queenless and waiting until all larvae in the hive were at least 3 days old, and you cut out all the cells...that might yield some cells from your grafts. I'm still skeptical. 

Buy a book on the subject. Queen rearing and Bee Breeding, Laidlaw-Page, from WicWas press is a good one. Contemporary Queen Rearing, Laidlaw, is still around. 

I use Bro Adam's method of incorporation the swarming impulse and the queenless response to grow thousands of quality cells. I know that's not what you're attempting.


----------



## Jon11 (Mar 29, 2011)

Michael, could you briefly describe your queen rearing method. I don't want thousands of quality cells, but I wouldn't mind forty or fifty.


----------



## Moon (May 7, 2011)

I had asked M. Palmer the same thing at the start of last year. I hope he doesn't mind me posting this here but this was the response he gave to me:

First, read some books. Brother Adam...Beekeeping at Buckfast Abbey
Page and Laidlaw...Queen Rearing and Bee Breeding

I'm sure you must know the biological processes of how thwe bees rasise a new queen. They use one of three methods...
1. Emergency
2. Supercedure
3. Swarming

It's no big deal to the bees. They do it all the time. It's no big deal to the beekeeper if you imitate what the bees do.

Growing queens via emergency response is out as far as I'm concerned. Too risky, and there are way too few cells. De-queening a colony to produce a few cells on a couple frames of brood isn't worth the trouble and the wasted colony.

Supercedure makes great queens, but nothing you can rely on or plan on. Sure, it's been shown that you can snip off a queen's antennae and the colony will supercede her. Again, nothing you can rely on and they only produce a very few cells. Another wasted colony for a couple of cells.

Swarming is a great way to raise cells. Good cells and plenty of them...but still how do you plan? Still using naturally built cells in a limited quantity on frames of brood.

Borther Adam took advantage of the emergency response combined with the swarming impulse, and that's what I've been doing for most of my queen rearing career.

Basically, cell building is all about the jelly. There must be an over abundance of nurse bees for the number of cells raised. If you could build a colony into a powerhouse, and then remove the queen, the bees will build some nice cells, but very few. If you set up the colony correctly, you create a cell builder that is queenless and has no open brood from which to raise cells...so you give them a graft of say...45 cups...and they go to town.

On day 1...Adam brings in a hive body of predominantly sealed brood and bees. This is placed over an excluder above a strong quenright colony. 
10 days later any open brood is sealed...no larvae in the box above excluder. 
The colony is broken down. Box above excluder is removed. Queenright hive is turned around onto ground behind stand and faced the other way. A new bottom is place on original stand facing original way. A partially filled super (this was actually placed above the excluder on day 1 so there won't be any open brood) goes on the bottom with the box of sealed brood...now called the cell builder...on top. The outside two combs are removed from the cell builder. An exceptional pollen comb is placed in the center with a space next to it that will receive the graft later that day. The bees in the core of the broodnest of the queenright section are shaken into the cell builder...through a queen excluded shaker box...so you don't get a queen in the cell builder. 

In almost no time, the bees in the cell builder realize they are queenless. Not only queenless, but hopelesley queenless. The start whining and crying and flying aimlessley around the hive and about the apiary. They run all over the outside of the hive very agitated.

Later that afternoon, a cell bar frame with your grafts is placed in the cell builder, next to the pollen comb. The bees almost immediately calm down and go back in the hive. They jump right on the grafts and draw out beautiful cells...remember how packed with nurse bees they are and the volume of the hive has been greatly reduced. 

5 days later, the cell builder and the queenright section can be re-united as the cells are sealed at that point. Remove the cell builder and super from the stand. Replace the queenright section on the stand facing the original way. Place an excluder on that section and the cell builder with sealed cells and super on top. 

10 days after graft, the cells are ready to place in nucs, or whatever.

Remember, the bees do the work. We only imitate the bees natural responses and provide the cell building colony with all the resources they need...in abundance!! Remember to feed the colony to whole time the cells are being drawn out, with 1:1.


----------



## Jon11 (Mar 29, 2011)

Thanks Moon. Do you know what the purpose of the partially filled super is?


----------



## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Jon11 said:


> Thanks Moon. Do you know what the purpose of the partially filled super is?


Two purposes.

The super full of bees below the cells helps keep the cells warm and in the center of the broodnest.

Bees don't like nectar/honey below the broodnest. Placing a partially filled super...open nectar not all capped...below the broodnest gets the bees to move it up, as in a nectar flow. Bees don't necessarily place the incoming nectar above the broodnest, but rather everywhere. The receiver bees take the load carried by the field bees and store it where they can, as fast as they can, so they can receive another load. They do store nectar, temporarily, in the bottom combs. This gets moved up and out of the broodnest at night when the flow stops for the day...if they have space to store it. 

Having the bees on a flow when raising queens is critical. Either a natural flow, or by feeding. Placing that partially filled super on the bottom board, and feeding thin syrup until the cells are sealed, creates flow conditions...even if there isn't one happening.


----------



## Jon11 (Mar 29, 2011)

Thanks Michael


----------



## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

Michael, whens the book coming out? I cut and paste all the real good posts into a word document and find most of them are yours. Figured you could just help a guy out here and publish LOL.


----------

