# Lab Testing of Honey



## woodedareas (Sep 10, 2010)

I hope someone can provide some advice. I am about to start selling my honey and some honey from 2 other bee keepers at farmers markets and perhaps on the internet. My lawyer asked if I had the honey tested by a Lab. Quite frankly it never occurred to me but he suggested that my liability insurance would not be of much help if I did not take proper precaution such as testing before selling. Has anyone used a lab and what should I test for. Also would appreciate the name of a reputable lab. I contacted a lab that does food testing and they have tested a lot of honey but indicated that I needed to know what I wanted them to test for as there are numerous tests for various chemicals and bacteria. They said it could deb inexpensive unless I needed numerous tests for chemicals and suggested I do some research with the FDA. I would appreciate any suggestions because quite frankly does make sense to test foods products that will behold to the public.


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

the lawyer is going to make a lot more than you. just put the honey in a jar and sell it. your first mistake was the lawyer. lol


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## Mandkfarmer (Feb 14, 2013)

I did a quick seach and got this...it's dated 1985, maybe something there.

http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/getfile?dDocName=STELDEV3011895

I purchased a refractometer to check moisture content..only so I would know what it is. (not planning on selling any at this time)...and I think it is used in a process to determine the grade (A,B or C).

There may be additional information in the other forums here.

I also believe there is specific information that is required to be on the label if you plan on selling.

I hav not seen anything on having it tested in a lab in the research I did.


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## woodedareas (Sep 10, 2010)

I realize many folks don't like lawyers, however, I have run a company for over 40 years and that is the part of a corporate necessity. Its a lot easier to check than to be sued for millions especially if you don't have liability insurance. All it takes is one lawsuit. So I have learned from experience to check. By the way it didn't cost anything to check.a


beeware10 said:


> the lawyer is going to make a lot more than you. just put the honey in a jar and sell it. your first mistake was the lawyer. lol


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

Your lawyer obviously knows about litigation (and how to take your money) but knows nothing about honey. lol
Check the labeling requirements for your state.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

There are labs that do that testing, but like you found out you have to specify what you want the honey sample tested for. Dr. Maryanne Frazier ran a study testing wax and honey samples for a cpl hundred different pesticides. I believe that study is no longer running.

What does your lawyer think you should be testing for? Presence of something? Or what?


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## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

I'm more worried about glass chips from the container.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Put it in plastic.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

I think Mark makes a very valid point. What is the lawyer afraid of as far as law suit? If grocers were concerned about having honey tested by a labm they would require you do it and provide them the results prior to you placing your product in their stores as well as providing a copy of your liability insurance policy to them with their name on your policy so they are covered. I do NOT know of any grocers requiring lab testing of honey.

Mark do you?


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

BMAC said:


> I do NOT know of any grocers requiring lab testing of honey.
> 
> Mark do you?


wixon packs for wegmans and if my memory is correct they also require it to be tested.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

the poster also said " I am about to start selling my honey and some honey from 2 other bee keepers at farmers markets"
maybe the lawyer is worried about what could be in the honey he bought, most reputable packers test the honey they turn around and sell? maybe he should check with a packer in his area.
I would think(and sometimes this is hard for me to do) that at the least you should test for High Fructose and antibiotics as these would be under the control of the beek.


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

You would have to have every single batch of bottled honey tested as nectar comes from different areas and can change composition within seconds.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

Mr.Beeman said:


> You would have to have every single batch of bottled honey tested as nectar comes from different areas and can change composition within seconds.


I asked this question once and was told most commercial beeks take a sample from each barrel and mix the samples together to send a sample to the packers when they are trying to sell there honey, would seem like a plan to me. I take multiple samples each time I extract and merge them and keep the sample for a few years just in case someone comes looking.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

wildbranch2007 said:


> wixon packs for wegmans and if my memory is correct they also require it to be tested.


I just spoke with Jerry a couple weeks ago about Wegmans. He never mentioned anything about having it tested at a lab. He did however go thru a rigorous 3 or 4 day inspection/certification to provide honey for Wegmans. Also he is on a completely different level of providing honey as a packer rather than a beekeeper providing honey.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

wildbranch2007 said:


> maybe he should check with a packer in his area.
> I would think(and sometimes this is hard for me to do) that at the least you should test for High Fructose and antibiotics as these would be under the control of the beek.


Valid point Mike. He would be prudent to check with local packers and see what they do. We understand what we would want tested for top quality honey, so of course we would want to have it sampled for antibiotics, HF, and probably chemical make ups of our mite treatments. With all that said what does a lawyer know about it? Most likely nothing to the minimal not much.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

BMAC said:


> Mark do you?


No, I don't. But all of the grocery stores I sell to require proof of product liability insurance.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

wildbranch2007 said:


> I asked this question once and was told most commercial beeks take a sample from each barrel and mix the samples together to send a sample to the packers when they are trying to sell there honey, would seem like a plan to me. I take multiple samples each time I extract and merge them and keep the sample for a few years just in case someone comes looking.


Mike, the honey producers that I know who sell barrels of honey to packers sample each barrel and send the individual samples to the packer along w/ the barrels of honey. I don't think that mixing would be a good idea. Were there something in one tank that would cause rejection then the whole load would be rejected.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

BMAC said:


> Valid point Mike. He would be prudent to check with local packers and see what they do. We understand what we would want tested for top quality honey, so of course we would want to have it sampled for antibiotics, HF, and probably chemical make ups of our mite treatments. With all that said what does a lawyer know about it? Most likely nothing to the minimal not much.


And then the OPer gets to decide whether the exposure is worth the risk when traces of certain chemicals are present. I bet his lawyer will advise against selling honey period when traces of chumophos show up in the tested honey.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

That makes it unlikely (or impossible if there are a number of samples pooled) for a problematic barrel to be noticed. Unless the same honey is going to be pooled for bottling, this is a great way to not find problems that you are supposedly trying find.

Deknow



wildbranch2007 said:


> I asked this question once and was told most commercial beeks take a sample from each barrel and mix the samples together to send a sample to the packers when they are trying to sell there honey, would seem like a plan to me. I take multiple samples each time I extract and merge them and keep the sample for a few years just in case someone comes looking.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

sqkcrk said:


> Mike, the honey producers that I know who sell barrels of honey to packers sample each barrel and send the individual samples to the packer along w/ the barrels of honey. I don't think that mixing would be a good idea. Were there something in one tank that would cause rejection then the whole load would be rejected.


or worse... a contaminated barrel that isn't noticed because the sample was diluted with honey from a bunch of clean barrels. ....or contamination that is assumed to be at safe levels because the sample is diluted.
It would be like averaging the grades in a class and if the average was passing, assuming all students are passing.

Deknow


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Have to agree with Dean here. We sample our honey to buyers by sampling about every 15th drum. The drums are filled from a holding tank which holds about 25 drums. I then blend four of those samples into a single sample which I feel accurately represents the average for a truck load of honey. Sure, there is a risk in doing so but I have confidence in what we produce so I just don't worry about it. 
Interestingly enough we got a positive (though quite low) Amitraz reading this fall. I called the packer and asked him if he could double check on that sample as I couldn't imagine how that could be possible. He let me know a few days later that, yes, there had been a mistake and that a lab tech had mislabeled a sample taken from another producer. I haven't had a positive reading for a miticide for 7 years and counting and we haven't had a positive antibiotic reading since discontinuing tylosin use 5 years ago. 
Heres my analogy. If you have a room full of people in which only one person has a contagious disease and you take a specimen from each of these people and combine them. Your results will confirm that a contagious disease is present in the room. If, however, you take only a random sampling you may well miss the infected person and get only readings showing no disease.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Jim, how do you keep barrels of differing color honey separate? Or do you only make white honey? Does you packer sample every barrel themselves for color?


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

sqkcrk said:


> Jim, how do you keep barrels of differing color honey separate? Or do you only make white honey? Does you packer sample every barrel themselves for color?


We have a second smaller tank if we run into a significant amount honey that is distinctly darker than the bulk of the honey we are running. It needs to be quite a bit, though, as the whole system contains a lot of honey and a lot of blending action with a 120 frame auto load draining into a floor sump holding around 1,000 pounds then into a separator which is holding several hundred more pounds. Some years you use the second tank a lot and some years you dont. What you really dread with a system like that is a few hundred pounds of really dark honey which (as you well know) can really screw up a large lot of nice white honey.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Here in NY we can have quite a range from early season honey to late season honey, differences in color and taste depending on the crop. Most of the folks I know of have tanks quite a bit smaller than Jims. Five or six barrels in size from two extractors holding 60 frames at a time. So, there can be some variation in color from one end of the season to another and therefore differences in price.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

jim lyon said:


> If you have a room full of people in which only one person has a contagious disease and you take a specimen from each of these people and combine them. Your results will confirm that a contagious disease is present in the room. If, however, you take only a random sampling you may well miss the infected person and get only readings showing no disease.


...but you are missing something.
When testing honey there are two numbers to consider...the LOD (limit of detection...how much has to be present to reliably detect it) and a level that is either illegal, dangerous, or undesirable.

If you have a barrel with 3x the LOD of contamination and pool the sample with 9 barrels that are not contaminated, your test will never show you the one barrel with 3x the LOD.

Pooling samples is a good way to hide a 'bad barrel' in a load (Jim, I'm not implying that you are hiding or trying to hide anything).

It is like being in a class where all the students get the same grade...an average of all the earned grades. How do you tell the good students from the bad students? How do you know if all the students are working at an 'average' level or if some are exceptional and some are struggling? Now decide to hire one of these students...don't you wish you knew what grade that particular student earned?

Again, if the pooled samples are going to be blended before bottling this is less of an issue.

deknow


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## woodedareas (Sep 10, 2010)

That is an excellent point. The more research that I have done leads me to believe most bee keepers do not do much testing other than perhaps for moisture content. I have located a lab and they do numerous tests and I have asked if they can recommend testing for the most serious problems involving pesticides, antibiotics and other serious contaminants. I also asked them if they have developed or if there are any government standards for which contaminants are within an acceptable range. Given the many sources of honey it is just a matter of time before this subject becomes an issue affecting all bee keepers, large and small. I am certain the business minded companies do labs tests as I believe they should. I will advise on the pricing.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

If you would take the time to contact large packers like Sioux Bee or Gamber Honey Company you might find out what they test for. It would be interesting to know. Beyond moisture content, adulteration w/ HFCS, and maybe antibiotics I don't know that testing for pesticides is done, other than maybe those used by beekeepers. Does anyone know what Gamber and Sioux Bee test for?


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