# Xentari BT Old Stock



## laketrout (Mar 5, 2013)

Picked up a bag of xentari from Hud through amazon , got to looking at the front of the package and noticed on the lower left corner the number 2003 with a small round symbol beside it , got worried it might be the year so I called the company and gave them the lot number on the back of the package # 132-298-PG and they are telling me it has a 2005 production date and said someone is selling very old stock . So next call went out to Hud to find out how they wanted to handle the return , he was very surprised and seemed honest and mentioned he had another call that the customer was saying his xentari didn't work for him last time he used it .I haven't heard back from Hud yet as he was checking with his distributor trying to get to the bottom of this . Has anyone on beesource had problems with there xentari or checked date codes and received old stock or am I the lucky one .


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

Maybe I should check my date code also, I bought some off Amazon recently, and it didn't work at all. Wax moths ruined many boxes of brood comb


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## DavidZ (Apr 9, 2016)

if you bought this from amazon, just do a return, don't contact the seller. forget them, go through amazon,
that's what amazon is for, forget the seller.
just do a item broken claim and in the comment box say it is out of date and not working.
choose print a label and give it to the ups person, once scanned your cash is back in your account.
I do this all the time and always get 100% of my refunds, and sellers can't do anything about it.


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## orthoman (Feb 23, 2013)

I just purchases some from Amazon prime -- The 2003 with the copy right symbol is on the lower left of the package. Maybe that is just the package printing copyright????

There is a new bar code on the back lower right corner that is a new bar code placed over an older bar code and the words XenTari BT and New printed under that. I do not find a lot number listed.

Wondering now, what is up. Will call them monday.


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## laketrout (Mar 5, 2013)

Yeah that gets your money back but then where do you go from there to get a good current production bag of xentari , I wanted to find out whats going on and see if they can fix the problem so we can get current production product , the girl on the phone said they only recommend a 3 year shelve life .


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## laketrout (Mar 5, 2013)

Lot number on my bag is on the back of the package , lower left corner right below the blue portion of text in the gold part of the bag , compare your lot to mine .


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## orthoman (Feb 23, 2013)

Oh yea -- I see it now -- black print -- hard to see. 132-298-pg --same as in OP. Great!


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## laketrout (Mar 5, 2013)

Same as mine , I was going to wait on listing this until I got my call from Hud but thought I would let everyone know that some of this product might be old , as soon as I hear back from them I will let you know what they found out , I will call back tomorrow if I don't hear from them by noon .


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

I lost a lot of comb last year. So i purchased a new bag of BT. Since I've used the new bag, I've kept looking at my stored comb to make sure that this fresh bag is working. It is not! Seems like Valent will receive lots of phone calls on Monday! I've had several calls into them before this thread started......... not one call returned. I guess I'll need to try other options other than to leave a call back number.


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## orthoman (Feb 23, 2013)

When you call them, let them know others will be calling also.


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## laketrout (Mar 5, 2013)

Valent didn't seem like they wanted to do anything about the old stock that I received from Hud , at that point its out of there hands they have no way to insure a current stock if a distributor stock piles it to long . Has anyone tried buying direct from Valent or do you have to go through a distributor .


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## orthoman (Feb 23, 2013)

Laketrout - I spoke with Valent Customer Service this morning and sure enough, that lot # 132-298PG was produced in August 2005. The rep said there is not an expiration date; however, there is a "retest date" of 3 years after product production. 

This stuff I bought is going back.


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

After reading this thread I checked my bag of Xentari. The Lot # is 224-38-PG. It does, however have a label over an old one. The label on top states it is new. Does anyone have any experience with this lot? Any feedback would be appreciated, as I have just this year gained a lot of precious drawn comb.

Alex


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## orthoman (Feb 23, 2013)

Alex, 

I have spoken to Valent as well as the supplier to Amazon.com (HID-Hut) -- I think both are trying to be honest, responsible and do the right thing. Valent is unhappy because someone beyond their control is selling outdated product. The HID guy seems like a nice guy and is kind of the guy stuck in the middle and his business reputation is being hurt. 

The HID-hut company rep told me they receive their material from Southern Ag Supply and not from Valent directly as they would have to buy a huge amount of Xentari at one time. He offered to sell me a new bag with a new Lot #. It was the exact lot number as yours. I took the lot number and called Valent to check the manufacture date and expiration (or retest date). Valent is very helpful checking lot numbers. 

Your material is also old -- manufactured in 2012 with a 3 year retest (expiration) date.

I called HID-Hut back and told him his new supply is also old. He was surprised to hear that and he was very apologetic -- he was also in touch with Valent, and trying to get in touch especially with Southern Ag to find out why they were shipping him outdated Xentari.

I am returning my Xentari to Amazon and will wait -- then, my plan is to contact HID-Hut -- or find someone else who carries it, and check the lot numbers with Valent before I purchase anything.

I don't know what else to do.


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

Orthoman,

Thanks for the helpful reply. I got mine from HID HUT via Amazon also. Looks like I'll be doing a return also.

Thanks again,
Alex


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## ShrekVa (Jan 13, 2011)

I just received mine today, unfortunately its also out of date. Has anyone heard more from HidHut?


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## orthoman (Feb 23, 2013)

You can look up their web site and call their 800 number directly. They are pleasant to speak to -- and perhaps they can give you the lot number so you can call Valent and check the lot number and when it was made. Otherwise, if you bought it through Amazon -- return it to them for a refund. 

Not sure how we can check lot numbers other than that before we purchase.


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## laketrout (Mar 5, 2013)

Here are the dates of manufacture so you can check your bags from Jan 2015 to August 2016 , Jan. 2015 first three numbers are 249 then it goes up to Dec. with #260 --- for a 2016 product Jan starts with 261 and runs through to Dec. with 272 - I'm calling the rep. to see if he knows where we can buy a fresh product , but I'm afraid the price might go up .


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Forestry Distributing does also offer Xantari in small packages ...
http://www.forestrydistributing.com/en/xentari-df-biological-insecticide-omri-listed

Their price (without shipping) is better than HidHut thru Amazon, but it appears that when shipping is added that Forestry might be a couple of dollars more.

I don't know what lot numbers Forestry is offering, but they do offer an 800 number.


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## pdave (Jun 7, 2013)

I just got an order from HID on 8/23/16 and my lot number is 224-338-PG. So I guess this is a Dec 2012 batch. It has a retest of 3 years, does this mean it could be good for longer or should I just go ahead and send it back?


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## orthoman (Feb 23, 2013)

It is 1 yr past the retest (or 4 years old )- I would return it but its up to you -- kind of like buying expired milk.


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## dynemd (Aug 27, 2013)

I just received mine from HID Hut and got the 224-338-PG lot also. I see that they no longer have the XenTari in stock on amazon. I ordered a pound from Forest Distributing 2 days ago and will see which lot they send. Back to Amazon with this bag.


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## jcummins (Feb 21, 2016)

Does BT kill wax months on contact?


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

jcummins said:


> Does BT kill wax months on contact?


No. The larvae have to ingest it and they die. It doesn't affect the moths directly.


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## jcummins (Feb 21, 2016)

dynemd said:


> I just received mine from HID Hut and got the 224-338-PG lot also. I see that they no longer have the XenTari in stock on amazon. I ordered a pound from Forest Distributing 2 days ago and will see which lot they send. Back to Amazon with this bag.


Please post back here the lot number you get from them. I have the 224-338-PG batch.

Seems to me this product has limited use???? the reason this old stuff is still around??


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## DavidZ (Apr 9, 2016)

reason hid hut had so much is they mainly cater to cannabis growers, someone must have requested the bt and hid got stuck with alot of bt cannabis growers do not use, Bt kurstaki is what growers need and hidhut messed up back when they ordered the wrong bt. Those hydro shops really don't have a clue.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

pdave said:


> I just got an order from HID on 8/23/16 and my lot number is 224-338-PG. So I guess this is a Dec 2012 batch. It has a retest of 3 years, does this mean it could be good for longer or should I just go ahead and send it back?


My lot of 224-338-PG does NOT work - send it back!


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## orthoman (Feb 23, 2013)

I checked with the Forest Products folks that were mentioned above - they told me their Xentari lot# is 258-457PG. I checked with Valent Customer service 1-800-554-5644 and they told me that lot was made in October 2015 -- so that bag of Xentari should be good for another 2 years at least.


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## knute (Mar 10, 2013)

Bummer- I just received an order with this same outdated lot. Back it goes! I have a bunch of comb I was hoping to treat this weekend.



pdave said:


> I just got an order from HID on 8/23/16 and my lot number is 224-338-PG. So I guess this is a Dec 2012 batch. It has a retest of 3 years, does this mean it could be good for longer or should I just go ahead and send it back?


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## jcummins (Feb 21, 2016)

knute said:


> Bummer- I just received an order with this same outdated lot. Back it goes! I have a bunch of comb I was hoping to treat this weekend.


Just ordered from forest...says I'll get by weekend. I like you need to treat with this. My Amazon order on it's way back.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

Just got my order of food grade Glacial acidic acid last week.
Works on moths (pollen frames too), beetles, many bee diseases, and mice. 
"Shelf life: Indefinite". just finished using the stuff that was 3-4 years ago. 

http://www.dudadiesel.com/search.php?query=acetic

I do use BT on comb for swarm traps. 

Here's another post about BT from amazon;
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?328679-BT-from-Amazon-bad

Send it back leave feedback.


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## ShrekVa (Jan 13, 2011)

I got an email back from Warren with HIDHUT, very professional. He asked me to post a response from them so I will.

It has come to our attention that two cases of Xentari were sold to us that were out of date. It was not noticed by our supplier, or us when we received it last month. We are currently trying to find out how this happened, and if it happened with more than 2 cases – as Valent does not print expiration dates on cases, only lot numbers – and we do not check every lot number. In the future, we will verify that all products are within the specified “use by” period by purchasing from the manufacturer directly. We replenish our inventory every other week from our supplier so we had hoped that practice would have prevented against this sort of problem. The shelf life of the product is approximately 2 years from the date of manufacture. You may reach the manufacturer on the number provided on the bag to check and see if you received expired inventory. If anybody has received an expired bag, please contact us via our website or Amazon so that we may resolve this problem for you. The lot numbers that we have identified as out of date are 132-298-PG and 132-655-PG. We have cut all ties with our old supplier and will be buying direct from the manufacturer in the future to ensure that we only receive the freshest possible inventory. We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused. 
-HID Hut Inc.

That's what I got from them, ill return my bag to amazon. I would give HidHut another shot though they seem to be on top of it once made aware.


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## cervus (May 8, 2016)

FlowerPlanter said:


> Just got my order of food grade Glacial acidic acid last week.


How do you use this? Fumigation? I see it freezes at 62F. Kinda limits the storage possibilities.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

cervus said:


> How do you use this? Fumigation? I see it freezes at 62F. Kinda limits the storage possibilities.


For moths, beetle and mice; I use 1/2 cup soaked rag spread on the top bars per five or six deeps. Painters tape any gaps in the boxes. I have also just put frames in black garbage bags and taped closed. It's much easier than spraying each frame. 

No problems with freezing, let it thaw. I even left one half empty container outside last winter. freezing wont hurt it. It's the same thing as vinegar only much stronger. Make sure to wear filtered mask, gloves, and eye protection. 

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?317027-Storing-drawn-comb

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?330175-Wax-moths!&p=1467555#post1467555

Do a search for "Glacial acidic acid Fumigation" for more details. Fumigation for disease is recommended 80%, 1/2 cup per deep for two weeks.


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## cervus (May 8, 2016)

FlowerPlanter said:


> For moths, beetle and mice; I use 1/2 cup soaked rag spread on the top bars per five or six deeps. Painters tape any gaps in the boxes. I have also just put frames in black garbage bags and taped closed. It's much easier than spraying each frame.
> 
> No problems with freezing, let it thaw. I even left one half empty container outside last winter. freezing wont hurt it. It's the same thing as vinegar only much stronger. Make sure to wear filtered mask, gloves, and eye protection.
> 
> ...


Thank you. Might be the way to go this year. When you say "filtered mask" are you referring to a respirator with filters for organic vapors?


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## popeye (Apr 21, 2013)

Thanks for bringing this up. Found out my blog I bought last year is old too. I'm just a 4th year hobby beek. I just lost one box out of five because of this.
At least I caught it before it got worse.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

cervus said:


> Thank you. Might be the way to go this year. When you say "filtered mask" are you referring to a respirator with filters for organic vapors?


Yes, just to be on the safe side. It's vinegar but very strong. For the same reason don't fumigate in your house or attached garage.

Once you do a stack of boxes I don't think you will go back to spraying each frame (unless its for a swarm trap).


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## laketrout (Mar 5, 2013)

What scared me off from acetic acid was its corrosive nature , I use wax foundation with two support wires and nails on the end bars , from what I hear any exposed metal will rust and corrode if in contact with acetic acid .


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

laketrout said:


> What scared me off from acetic acid was its corrosive nature , I use wax foundation with two support wires and nails on the end bars , from what I hear any exposed metal will rust and corrode if in contact with acetic acid .


There is some surface rust on exposed metal that is not covered in propolis or wax. It looks like what you see on the metal parts of the frames that are left in the rain a few days. When I store frame I leave them packed this way for a year plus.


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## laketrout (Mar 5, 2013)

Have ever you ever noticed if the horizontal wires that we wire a frame with rust , I thought maybe that was stainless, and only the nail heads would rust ,not sure how time consuming it would be but you could quickly run some beeswax over the nail heads.


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## dynemd (Aug 27, 2013)

Just received my Forest Products XenTari, indeed it is lot# 258-457-PG


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## laketrout (Mar 5, 2013)

Mine is on the way also , October 2015 not to bad , should be good for a couple years plus , wish there was a way to know if it was still good before you find out the hard way .


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## Bkwoodsbees (Feb 8, 2014)

I guess Hud sold out of the older Zentari lot number starting with 132. I received 224 338 pg from him on 8 13. So I guess mine is expired also. I bought mine through ebay from hud. Waiting on his response. What is the forestry supplier website that sells Zentari. I saw it before ordering from hud but can not find it now. Thanks


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

See post #19 for the Forest Distributing Xantari link. 

Here it is again:
http://www.forestrydistributing.com/en/xentari-df-biological-insecticide-omri-listed


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## Bkwoodsbees (Feb 8, 2014)

Thanks Radar. Just ordered hopefully have it by weekend. I went through all my stored supers that I sprayed with xantari from hud. So far no damage . I am not taking any chances with that expired stuff. I wish Valent would put a expiration date on package.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

You should be stacking your brood comb on top of strong colonies to protect it.


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

odfrank said:


> You should be stacking your brood comb on top of strong colonies to protect it.


I think there's an article about doing that in the fall 1859 American Bee Journal.


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## Mike01876 (Jul 14, 2015)

Many thanks to Laketrout and others, coming back from vacation I just noticed the thread and checked the Xentari BT I got from Amazon a few weeks ago. It turned out to be from the lot made in 2012! I filed a return electronically, it will be on the way back to Amazon tomorrow morning!

Thanks again for calling this out!

Mike


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## laketrout (Mar 5, 2013)

Good luck Mike , forestry distributing is Oct. 2015 stock should be good for a couple years at least .


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

I tried to return my Bt to Amazon using the automated system. It has been over two months since I ordered from them so it wouldn't allow me to do so. I went on through the system to customer service. I gave it my phone # and selected "call me now option" and got an immediate call. After answering a few verification questions the rep. started the refund process and had a return label in my inbox before we got off the phone. He seemed to be aware of the problem.

Thanks Orthoman,

Alex


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## Bkwoodsbees (Feb 8, 2014)

Hud replied to my message to him through ebay. He apologized and said he was unaware of expiration. He said he issued me a full refund. He also said he pulled all the xentari off for sale and is trying to settle with his supplier. I couldn't ask for more.


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## Bkwoodsbees (Feb 8, 2014)

Hid hud issued me a refund with no hassle. My order came in today from Forestry distrIbuting was delivered today. Lot number 258-457 pg. Thanks to everyone for pointing this out.


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## Bob Anderson (Jun 13, 2014)

Just found this thread - turns out I sprayed about 400 frames with 132-298-PG. Not pleased about this. Returning it to Amazon and ordered from Forestry. I hope the frames are still OK...

Not the first situation with out of date stock, I had received some ApiVar that expired pretty much the day I got it. I returned that too and they seemed annoyed that I would return it.


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## Redbug (Feb 8, 2014)

Just ordered BT from HID Hut via Ebay. On the website they state the lot number is 261-625-PG. I got the package today, (7/20/2017), and no lot number label is on the package anywhere. I guess I have to take their word for it. I will call them. With all the flap about old stock, it would be a good idea to not have those pesky lot labels on the bags anymore.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

The lot # is hard to find as it's stamped in the "blue " section of the bag. Keep looking.


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## orthoman (Feb 23, 2013)

Post #28 has the 800 number for the company that makes Xentari - call them with the number and they will help find the lot # and tell you when it was made.


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## Redbug (Feb 8, 2014)

snl said:


> The lot # is hard to find as it's stamped in the "blue " section of the bag. Keep looking.


I got the flashlight out and looked closely. There it is! Thanks SNL...whoever you are...


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## IAmTheWaterbug (Jun 4, 2014)

I bought a bag of Xentari from HID Hut in 2015, but hadn't gotten around to using it, or even inspecting it. Sure enough, I checked the bag, and it's Lot #224-338-PG.

So I sent the following to HID Hut via amazon:



> Hi. I ordered a bag of Xentari from you in 2015 (amazon order #xxxxx). I didn't check the lot numbers and manufacture date at the time (because it didn't occur to me that anyone would be selling expired inventory), and now I'm finding that the bag I purchased in 2015 was manufactured in 2012 (Lot #224-338-PG).
> 
> So even though I'm contacting you nearly 2 years after purchase, one of your company representatives shared with another customer that the shelf life is approximately 2 years:
> 
> ...


The next day I received the following from HID Hut:



> I'm sorry to hear that you received an expired batch of Xentari from us. You are correct, the shelf life of Xentari is two years from the manufacture date. You'd think Valent would start printing that on the bags by now. We'll go ahead and ship you a fresh bag to compensate you for the expired product. We buy direct from Valent as to avoid purchasing from a third-party who might be selling expired product. Unfortunately, the only way to check this is by all Valent directly and having them run a batch/lot number check. We greatly appreciate your business, let us know if we can help with anything else!


and then an hour later I received a tracking number.

This is amazing, and unexpected customer service, to replace an item nearly 2 years after purchase.

I'm not sure what else I'd need from HID Hut, but I'd definitely endorse them.


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## MichiganMike (Mar 25, 2014)

Redbug said:


> I got the flashlight out and looked closely. There it is! Thanks SNL...whoever you are...


Dave, did you check to see if your lot number is recent?


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## Tim KS (May 9, 2014)

IAmTheWaterbug said:


> I bought a bag of Xentari from HID Hut in 2015, but hadn't gotten around to using it, or even inspecting it. Sure enough, I checked the bag, and it's Lot #224-338-PG.
> 
> So I sent the following to HID Hut via amazon:
> 
> ...


Waterbug, I can't come up with an email address for HID Hut.......would you PM me the email address that you used, please. I have the same lot# as you.


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## Arbol (Apr 28, 2017)

Amazon seller Hid Hut
Lot # 261-625-PG as of 8-23-13
I just received this years supply


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## IAmTheWaterbug (Jun 4, 2014)

Tim KS said:


> Waterbug, I can't come up with an email address for HID Hut.......would you PM me the email address that you used, please. I have the same lot# as you.


I sent it through the Amazon messaging system.


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## aran (May 20, 2015)

I just recieved mine from amazon Lot # 261-625-PG. Am i right in reading post 61 that this is a 2013 product? If so ill return it.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

aran said:


> I just recieved mine from amazon Lot # 261-625-PG. Am i right in reading post 61 that this is a 2013 product? If so ill return it.


Based on the data in post #18, Lot # 261-625-PG was manufactured in January 2016.


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## aran (May 20, 2015)

expires in 2 years right?? so its now over 2 years old!


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## aran (May 20, 2015)

so guys and gals where can we buy this product that ISNT expired?


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

aran said:


> so guys and gals where can we buy this product that ISNT expired?


http://www.forestrydistributing.com/en/xentari-df-biological-insecticide-omri-listed-valent


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Also, the manufacturer of Xentari, Valent, says the shelf life is 3 years ...
https://www.valent.com/agriculture/...0-DIP-XEN-8003-DiPel-and-XenTari-Grape-QS.pdf


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## Fivej (Apr 4, 2016)

I bought mine from someone on Amazon and he posted a pic of the label showing the expiry date. I can't seem to find it in my account so maybe I had my daughter order it for me. If I find out, I will post his name. J


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

The expiration date on the package is encoded. You have to call the company and read them the code and they’ll tell you the manufacture date.


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## laketrout (Mar 5, 2013)

The code can be figured out , I listed the code on pg 18


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## Fivej (Apr 4, 2016)

snl said:


> The expiration date on the package is encoded. You have to call the company and read them the code and they’ll tell you the manufacture date.


I went out and grabbed my bag and you are correct, the date is by lot number, but he has a label on the bag that says "new" with a bar code. Upon closer inspection, I see this is a label he placed over the old label. I was really ticked, but just checked the lot number and it was "new" when I bought it. Six months old. J


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## LeonardS (Mar 13, 2012)

This is probably why my comb treatment didn't work last Fall. I'll buy new Xentari this Fall and confirm the production date.


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