# My splits looking bad, any ideas?



## GZB (Jan 29, 2013)

Were there many mature drones flying at the time the Queen's hatched? Poor mating could explain the new queen failures.


----------



## Camel413 (Oct 5, 2013)

I believe so. What does "poor mating" mean. She will lay eggs but not very many? What would be the best action to correct this, just squish the queens that are in all the hives and move frames of eggs into each hive so they can make new queens?


----------



## merince (Jul 19, 2011)

I think you just split them too hard. The nucs with the old queens are doing fine because they kept on laying. The other nucs had about 1 month before the new queens started laying and then about 40 days before the new queens' offspring become foragers. Meanwhile, the workforce of those nucs has been dwindling. Bees drift off and die off. You might have lost some foragers moving them, too. In the end, the nuc cannot build up nice there aren't enough bees to take care of the brood that the queen can lay.


----------



## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

Too early for mating in Illinois. You jumped the gun on the splits.

Drones need heat to fly and mate.


----------



## GZB (Jan 29, 2013)

Camel413 said:


> I believe so. What does "poor mating" mean. She will lay eggs but not very many? What would be the best action to correct this, just squish the queens that are in all the hives and move frames of eggs into each hive so they can make new queens?


"Poor mating" meaning very little or low quality fertilization. The queens wouldn't lay many eggs or lots of drones. You might think about re-combining or some other strategies to bolster the population. If they are strong enough, they can re-queen themselves, but they need enough population to span the time period to the new queen's maturity. I'm not sure I'd take a chance killing the current queen... that's a decision only you can make.


----------



## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

JWChesnut said:


> Too early for mating in Illinois. You jumped the gun on the splits.
> 
> Drones need heat to fly and mate.



I'm about 40 min from him and did almost the same thing around the same time not quite as aggressively though , in fact I brought a swarm home from a trip in MS that had a virgin queen and I saw her go on her maiting flight on the 14th of april ............All but 2 of these took and are laying up a storm, and one of them that didn't the virgin returned to the wrong split and I know this because she was the only virgin I found and was able to mark. 


To the OP, one thing I did notice this yr with these early splits was all the cold rain we had, It did take a bit longer for the queens to start laying, you may have combined too early and that is why they killed your queen.


----------



## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

I don't know... he's 200 miles south of me, I grafted April 13th and April 20th and both batches look pretty darn good.

But my colonies have plenty of drone comb and had plenty of drones at the time. So perhaps I just had enough in the general area to have it work out? Most I left near my colonies for mating in their castles but some I took to the house. Too early to notice any difference really, but we'll see.

I've noticed that mites can take a pretty significant toll on your bees when splitting if the load is high.


----------



## Camel413 (Oct 5, 2013)

I appreciate all the info from everyone. So at this point my best option is to just start combining the weak colonies to salvage what I have? If I combine two colonies that each have a queen should I kill one queen or just combine and let them fight it out?


----------



## merince (Jul 19, 2011)

I would just pick one and pinch the other.


----------



## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

we have enough time in the season, you can turn them around and or build them up enough to winter as double stacked nucs or triple stacked medium nucs. I've got a couple little 5 frame nucs currently waiting for queens to hatch and mate so you are ahead of them. If you still have strong colonies give your weaker ones a boost with ready to emerge brood and see what they will do. The time to combine for us is about the end of september. That is when I combine any week colonies that I don't think will make the winter. That gives them 1 and sometimes 2 months depending on the yr to gather golden rod and other fall nectars and once combined should be strong enough to do it.


----------



## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Harley Craig said:


> we have enough time in the season, you can turn them around


There's PLENTY of time.

I can make up nucs with 2 frames of brood/bees and a frame of food, give them a mated queen in July and overwinter them 5/5 or 5/5/5 with them drawing that comb... and maybe even have to steal a frame of brood from them in August. If you're willing to feed a little or particularly blessed with a fall flow (last year this happened).


----------



## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

jwcarlson said:


> There's PLENTY of time.
> 
> I can make up nucs with 2 frames of brood/bees and a frame of food, give them a mated queen in July and overwinter them 5/5 or 5/5/5 with them drawing that comb... and maybe even have to steal a frame of brood from them in August. If you're willing to feed a little or particularly blessed with a fall flow (last year this happened).


Exactly had to rob comb from a 3x4 medium last yr several times just to keep them from swarming


----------



## Camel413 (Oct 5, 2013)

I dont mind feeding. I have plenty of feeders and just bought about 3/4 ton of sugar. I will give them some more time and see what happens. Maybe I am just not being patient enough. I guess I do have to remind myself that it has been a bit chilly and rainy here the last month. We have chance of rain for the next 8 days straight.


----------



## jadebees (May 9, 2013)

I combine small colonies often. It has a couple of great advantages. First, for me, the most productive, gentler bees can be selected. Second, you'll see an immediate jump in laying, and production of brood. For the simple reason, there are more bees to tend eggs and larva. The queen you select seems to know this instinctively. This is also how I get small feral colonies big enough to over-winter easily. It is a viable technique.


----------

