# Moisture Content



## Planner (Apr 3, 2016)

Does anyone know the FDA suggestion for moisture content. I have harvest just some of my colonies and with capped frames they are reading 18.5.. Seems to be the same every year, however, I assume the moisture content is different for different geographic areas. I did check a few uncapped frames and they were 19.5.
I use a digital meter and it is very easy and accurate. Any issues with 18.5???? I also noticed the readings will drop at least 0.5 in my heated Dadant water jacketed holding tanks.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

It is the USDA that sets standards for honey grades, not the FDA. Here is the document:
https://www.ams.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media/Extracted_Honey_Standard[1].pdf

Grade A honey can have up to 18.6% moisture. Honey with moisture exceeding 18.6% would be downgraded. Note that there are also other factors besides moisture content that affect honey grading. FYI, the table on page 11 shows the moisture content grades, but they refer to it _differently_ "Percent Soluble Solids" which if you subtract the number shown from 100 tells you the allowable moisture for that grade.


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## patncin (Jun 10, 2016)

is there an easy way to get it down to 17% I have tried everything


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## johnsof (Oct 14, 2014)

Stick the boxes in a closet with a dehumidifier for a week. That will drop it down a ways.


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## Planner (Apr 3, 2016)

For about 9 years my capped honey is between 18.2 and 18.6. Any uncapped frames are higher. This year I will take the frames with higher moisture content (uncapped) and as I rocess set them aside and then return them to my bee yard where hopefully the bees will participate. I have no evidence but I believe that various parts of the country produce honey with specific moisture content. I have learned to check moisture content before extracting because it is much easier to deal with that problem while the frames are in a super than to try and extract moisture from liquid honey. I realize the large commercial producers have equipment to deal with the moisture content or can blend their products. Finally I have never had any problems with moisture between 18.0 and 18.6. 



Rader Sidetrack said:


> It is the USDA thaRadar
> t sets standards for honey grades, not the FDA. Here is the document:
> https://www.ams.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media/Extracted_Honey_Standard[1].pdf
> 
> Grade A honey can have up to 18.6% moisture. Honey with moisture exceeding 18.6% would be downgraded. Note that there are also other factors besides moisture content that affect honey grading. FYI, the table on page 11 shows the moisture content grades, but they refer to it _differently_ "Percent Soluble Solids" which if you subtract the number shown from 100 tells you the allowable moisture for that grade.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Are you sure about the calibration of your instrument?


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## Planner (Apr 3, 2016)

Yes i just checked it, and its is not the meter but rather my stupidity.. I use 9 frames and not 10. Some of the end frames are capped on one side and not on the either side, thus I am getting higher readings from those frames. The internal frames are below 18% which is fine. As I extract I will take the external frames that are not fully capped and return to a hive with the hope he bees will complete their work. I am really stupid to not have notice that the high readings are from the external frames given the years that I have been a beekeeper. Maybe its not stupidity but rather old age. Also I am not concerned about taking some frames back to the bee yard as the internal frames are really thick and I think I am producing more honey than Idid with 10 frames. Next year I am going to compare 9 to 10 frame supers. 
Thanks




jim lyon said:


> Are you sure about the calibration of your instrument?


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## patncin (Jun 10, 2016)

I have done everything you talk about last spring my honey was 17.5 summer 18.5 and fall(goldenrod)16.8 naturally so far this year every thing is 18.5 I have never had any go sour. the bee club tells of all the ways they pull the moisture down even to 16 im sorry but I have never get it down that low I pulled it down this year in a bucket with a dehydrator to 17 from 18.5 put a lid on it and checked it a couple days later only for it to be 18.5 again it must be Illinois humidity im trying to get show honey I don't want to cook it down


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## Planner (Apr 3, 2016)

Its Illinois politics.




patncin said:


> I have done everything you talk about last spring my honey was 17.5 summer 18.5 and fall(goldenrod)16.8 naturally so far this year every thing is 18.5 I have never had any go sour. the bee club tells of all the ways they pull the moisture down even to 16 im sorry but I have never get it down that low I pulled it down this year in a bucket with a dehydrator to 17 from 18.5 put a lid on it and checked it a couple days later only for it to be 18.5 again it must be Illinois humidity im trying to get show honey I don't want to cook it down


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## patncin (Jun 10, 2016)

true


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## Planner (Apr 3, 2016)

Checked moisture content on about 10 5 gallon buckets and they vary.The supers I pulled earlier were actually vey low about 17, which for me is great. The supers that I just pulled were about 18-22. Very High. I extract in my garage which I convert into honey house and when I did the checking yesterday it was very humid. I brought several buckets into my air-conditioned home and over night they dropped to below 18.6. A significant drop. I keep about 16 gallons in my Dadant storage tank and set the temp at 95 degrees. I let it sit a few days and the honey is registering about 17.2. Evidently the low heat helps to reduce the moisture by about 1 percent or more. I also learned that the supers that contained 2 or more frames of uncapped honey had substantially higher moisture than supers with no uncapped honey. I also learned not to add a frame or two of uncapped honey with frames of capped honey with the thought of blending the moisture levels. When done in small batches of 5 gallon buckets it did not work and substantially raised the moisture. It may be possible to add one frame of uncapped with every 5 or more frames of capped. A lot of work and a real pain.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Revisiting an old thread because I screwed up. My meager honey harvest is a lot thinner than it was last year. So much so that it prompted me to buy a refractometer to check it. I ended up using evoo to calibrate the darn thing since the directions said to use water and the tiny bottle of some oil that came with it did not say what number to use. Anyhow, it looks like I have about 20 pint mason jars of 19.8% moisture content honey. At this point, what is the best way to get it down to 17%. I'm ready to dump them all back into a large pot and simmer. My honey is for personal use and to give to friends. Not worried about the raw natural part this year.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

If the honey is picking up moisture from the air you will get a high reading at the surface since that is where the lighter, high moisture honey will float. 

If you bring up the temperature of the honey and expose it to drier air you will be above the temperature / humidity equilibrium and the moisture will go from the honey to the air.

These transfers take place at the surface and the density factor makes it necessary to stir the whole container regularly and certainly before doing any density tests to get anywhere near an overall representative average reading. 

I dont think you will need anywhere near what is commonly referred to as "simmering". Something in the 110 - 120 F. range I think will get you there.


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## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

Moisture content of honey can be a funny thing, The one time I made comb honey mostly from clover and locust after cutting the capped comb into squares I checked some of the honey that was dripping from the combs and found 20%moisture content. I did some reading on moisture content and read that some clover honey can be as high as 22% so it appears that all honeys are not equal.
Johno


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## Bee Arthur (Mar 21, 2015)

It's a legit concern here in the Midwest with our balmy summers. I use a small stand-up tent to keep my frames in a low-humidity environment during processing. I've got a picture and some details here: https://www.mitecalculator.com/bee-yard-blog/2018/7/21/honey-is-thirsty

I like it because I use my basement as a makeshift "honey house," and it's much easier to control the environment in the tent than it is the whole basement/house.


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## Eikel (Mar 12, 2014)

Normally I don't have a problem with higher moisture honey but this year hasn't been normal. I built a honey warmer to decrystallize honey in smaller batches of 2-4 cases but it also works well for dropping the moisture content in the same size batches. Two thermostatically controlled light bulbs, queen excluder shelves and extra boxes; about $30-35 for electric/electronics.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

So I'm leaning towards using my minifridge incubator as a hotbox. Take the lids off of several jars, crank up the temps and let them sit for a few days with the door slightly ajar for ventilation. Should work?

Johno, the clover honey at 22% doesn't ferment?

Edit, I just put four jars in the incubator and adjusted the heat to 105°F. I tested last years honey at 17% on the nose. Amazing what 3% more moisture does to the consistancy.


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## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

I dont know, when I saw capped honey reading 20% I think I googled moisture content of honey and somewhere in the story it said that clover honey could have a moisture content of up to 22 %, made no mention of fermentation. This happened about 4 years ago so I will try and find that article again.
Johno


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## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

Will interesting to hear how you make out. 

I think a deep freeze is your best bet. Freeze it and keep it frozen until you are ready to use. I don't know if the glass jar will break as I have only used plastic containers such as plastic honey containers and sour cream containers.

Another option is to mix some 17% or lower moisture content honey with 18.5%.

My other experience with wet honey was placing it in large stainless steel bowls in a small room and running a dehumidifier. I thought I could take advantage of the bigger surface area to help with evaporation. The running dehumidifier warms the room somewhat and the honey started to ferment in the bowls. Some froth on top and yeast smell.

If honey is less than 1/3 to 1/2 capped, I now use the dehumidifier. Put the frames full of honey in the room for a day, if the honey is too high moisture. With uncapped honey and 30% humidity setting, the setup will remove 1-1.5% in a day.

I also mark each extraction batch with moisture content and it can be handy on occasion to know where the 16% honey is, so that I can blend with wet honey.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Early report.

The four jars of honey have been in the incubator now for about 15 hours. I pulled one jar, capped it back up and shook to homogenize the mixture. Tested at 19.5%, so there is a marked decrease in moisture already. The starting point was just a hair under 20% for these jars. The 19.8% was from an open jar I have been using. Hope this change is not due to the refractometer being calibrated at 78° and the honey being just over 100°. Thinking not since the sample would have cooled off pretty rapidly after being placed on the prism. Once I get it down to 17% I'll let the jars cool and test again.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

The incubator idea seems to have the moisture content stalled at just over 19%. I put a jar, uncapped, in the refrigerator a few days ago and it is now at 18.5%. I am very sore at myself for not having the refractometer and checking the frames BEFORE I extracted. Would have been much easier to get it down. But, the process is working, so I sill have hopes of salvaging this year's crop.

The best part of frequent testing now is that, after stiring to assure uniformity, I get to lick the spoon!


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

JWPalmer said:


> Revisiting an old thread because I screwed up. My meager honey harvest is a lot thinner than it was last year. So much so that it prompted me to buy a refractometer to check it. I ended up using evoo to calibrate the darn thing since the directions said to use water and the tiny bottle of some oil that came with it did not say what number to use. Anyhow, it looks like I have about 20 pint mason jars of 19.8% moisture content honey. At this point, what is the best way to get it down to 17%. I'm ready to dump them all back into a large pot and simmer. My honey is for personal use and to give to friends. Not worried about the raw natural part this year.



The following assumes you have the honey in a plastic 5 gallon pail.

What I've done in this situation is to bring a 5 gallon pail of honey into an air conditioned space, uncover the pail and place a standard band heater on the pail and then (securely!!) suspend a box fan above the liquid honey blowing down on the exposed honey. I do this in an small room closed off from the rest of the house, but still has conditioned air circulating through floor vents. Doing this, I can get about a 0.5% drop per day, and not overheat the honey. The blowing air keeps the uncovered honey from getting too hot, and the band heater naturally creates convection circulation to expose the honey to the air, so no need to stir.

Summer honey produced near or on the east coast can be challenging, (80% daytime relative humidity, and nighttime dew points in the mid to high 70's) so I always "try" to make sure moisture is correct before extracting, but sometimes there are still problems. There's a fallacy that says bees won't cap honey until it is ready. Well, I've found capped cotton honey with the cappings bulging from gas due to fermentation. I routinely find capped cotton honey around 19% (and higher), which is why I like to pull summer honey with both capped and uncapped frames. You can readily dry the uncapped honey prior to extracting, but once its capped, you have few options other than what I described above.


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## dddillon (Jun 6, 2017)

John, did you get any results yet on your honey?


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Last check of the fridge honey was 18.5% Havent checked the incubator jars in a few days. May swqap plugs and put the incubator back in fridge mode to dry the remaining jars.

Thanks for the info astrobee. I will keep that in mind for next year when I go into honey production instead of bee production.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Update on the moisture reduction experiment. Its been an additional ten days and the fridge honey has not moved past 18.5%. Could be that the top layer was so dry and thick that additional moisture could not escape. I warmed it and stirred it for the reading. On the other hand, the four open jars in the incubator are now a solid 17%. Again no stirring until sample time. Also encouraged by the fact that even at a constant 105°, the honey has not fermented. I may have honey for friends and family yet!


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## BeeDuto (Apr 19, 2018)

Does the weather outside speed or slow the curing process within the hive? I'd think it would be a lot harder to cure honey with dew points in the 70's vs the lowers 60's or even 50's. My bees were able to cap almost 8 deep frames in June and July pretty quickly but the nectar they added to the medium super i added seems to be taking longer to cure with a long humid stretch of dewpoints above 70. Luckily its gotten bone dry out there these last few days with dew points in the mid 50's.


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## Eikel (Mar 12, 2014)

> Could be that the top layer was so dry and thick that additional moisture could not escape.


As a SWAG, I'd assume the increased viscosity of cold honey would inhibit the movement of moisture throughout the whole container not just the top layer, though any "skimming" would further hinder release of any moisture.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

> Even when fully capped, my honey rarely has moisture content under 19%. For a number of years I was concerned, because you read everywhere that “honey with over 18.6% moisture may ferment.” However, this was not my experience. *My honey commonly has water content between 19% and 19.5%, and never fermented*. I could try to bring it down to the magical 18.6%, but I don’t. When you dry honey, you also lose some of its volatile components that make up the aroma.


https://www.beeculture.com/selling-honey-20-pound/

USDA does just does some safe number for them since they don't even distinguish between the honey varieties (beekeepers should know better than this).
Reality is all over and still fine and bees know best.
Once honey is capped - it is good (regardless of the % moisture).


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

"Once honey is capped - it is good (regardless of the % moisture)."

Just for a bit of balance, consider that capped honey in some weather conditions can absorb moisture from surroundings.

Relative moisture level is not the only factor in whether a honey will ferment or not. Different samples will have a variety of yeasts present, PH difference, and also different natural fermentation inhibitors. 

Some of the technical brewers and vintners could expound endlessly on this.

It would be safe to say as a broad advisory that in general, _the higher you go in moisture content the greater the risk of having fermentation.
_


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## BeeDuto (Apr 19, 2018)

How long does it usually take to cure honey? Does it depend how many bees are actively fanning it or more on the outside dew points (ie humidity levels)?


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## OBG (Jun 16, 2013)

Okay you might be able to explain this. I always test my frames with a refractometer from brushy mountain. I checked the calibration with the device at the same temp as the honey then test frames. Every good. 16.5-18. Now bottling I’m getting screwy results. My buckets are reading anywhere from 19.5-22. That’s the same bucket. Yet I test every bottle from that bucket and got consistent readings between 17-17.5. Don’t know what to think. I rechecked the calibration using evoo and get a brix scale reading of 71.5 just as the literature says. Any ideas how the buckets can vary so much with each reading yet the bottles are consistent? I stopped filling bottles and did all of these test with bucket at the same level just to make sure there was no type of moisture stratification.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Honey will pick up moisture from the air very quickly. And maybe the moisture isn't the same everywhere in your honey, but being hydroscopic it should equalize fairly quickly. Crystallization will shift more and less moisture depending on where the crystals are. The crystals will be less moisture and the liquid between them more moisture.


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## Lady Devana (Oct 5, 2016)

Greetings all

I have an opposite problem but can't find a thread about it.
I have frames that had a small amount of honey that was not capped. I usually let my bees keep all the honey and don't super my hives. However I did last year and ran into a problem. I Wasn't sure how the uncapped honey would affect the honey once it was spun. A fellow Beekeeper thought it would be a good idea to put the frames in a room with a de humidifier so that's what we did. Long story short now my honey measures 15.8 on the refractometer. Can anyone tell me how I might be able to bring the moisture content up so I can spin my frames? Or is this honey crop a wash? Thanks


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Never ran into that problem before. How you handle it probably depends on how many frames you have. Just thinking out loud, but I might consider wrapping a few frames in a damp towel and place them in a plastic garbage bag for a few days and see if the moisure level comes up. Don't think this would work if the honey has crystalized though.


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## Fivej (Apr 4, 2016)

Your honey should spin out fine. Maybe it is not warm enough or it crystallized? If you think it really is because it is too dry, read the post above yours. Honey will readily absorb moisture. Put it in a humid area and it will reabsorb moisture. JW beat me to it. J


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