# snow bound hives/locations



## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

I would put the patties on and feed if neccessary. Can you walk on top of the snow? You could open feed and put on patties and i bet your snow takes care of itself. You can always dig out later if you need to and snow is good insulation/windbreak.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

I've carried feed into yards over the snow before... It sucks!
I set my hives out last weeks to a perfect start, then all work stopped with a week of cold. We should be able to get back into the hives to resume work tomorrow. 

As for pushing the yards, sometimes when I go and work because of tough conditions later on I figured I had just wasted my time. Patience indeed!


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Ben Little said:


> I think I should just take my loader and go plow every yard out regardless how long it takes to get these bees fed and ready. What do you think ?


I think so, too. Get it done!


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## Huntingstoneboy (Feb 10, 2013)

Kinda Ironic if you think about it...plowing snow to place queens from hawaii....sorry I know that is of no help.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

How deep is the snow on your hives?
How long it will take you to do it for 100 queens?
Can you ask the queen supplier to send them in 50 at a time?
The reason being that if you are making splits then it will take longer to
do it with 200 hives. You are making splits and not a simple requeening.
And the queen cannot wait that long outside the hive without
any feeding unless there is a better way to make them survive longer for
you to have more time to do things. Now is the time to get the patty in for them first. I say just dig it!


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## Ben Little (Apr 9, 2012)

The snow is still to the top of the pallets and we would have to snowshoe in to the yards with a toboggan to carry the feed. around 7-800' to the bees in most yards. Oh yes very well thought out that was, but I really didn't anticipate the snow to be here at this magnitude in April. 
I can do the splits if the feed goes on this week, I will have to rob brood later on from my wintered nucs . The only reason for splitting this early is because I need more hives for pollination and can't afford package bees @ 200.00 for 1 Kg ! Plus I really don't want to buy packages anymore .

My intent is to take 1 frame of capped brood and whatever the hive can spare for bees without chilling remaining brood with 2 honey frames and 1 pollen if I can find one and add a frame feeder and 2 pounds of sub, add the queen and insulate the box on top and wrap with black pallet wrap, reduce entrance and PRAY ! All frames will be drawn comb. They both will be reduced to a single deep and have 8 frames and a frame feeder.
So if they get made on May 6th and she is released on May 8th starts laying on the 9th or 10th On the 31st the brood will emerge and hopefully if everything goes right, I can equalize with brood and bees to get my pollination standards of 8 frames of bees 4 frames of brood and 2 of honey plus another box of drawn comb on top to lay in. We usually have higher numbers then the standard to make a good impression but not too much higher because they get plugged out easily and swarm just after the 3rd week in blueberries. 

How does that sound ? I didn't want to give them too much brood to keep warm, we will add more if the queen isn't laying right on time.


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

I snowshoed out to put fondant and sub on a couple of yards I couldn't get close to. Hindsight is 20-20, but there was an article a year or so ago in the Ontario Bee Journal on spring feeding that recommended leaving a barrel of liquid feed in each yard in the fall so you just have to snowshoe out and take the lid off in the spring.


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## JodieToadie (Dec 26, 2013)

Like you said looks like your weather is getting better next week. You still have lots of time. All will be well. Forcing it might make it worse.


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## JSL (Sep 22, 2007)

Ben, I am not in your shoes, so take this with a grain of salt. If the bees need feed, then they need feed, that is an easy decision. But as others have suggested, patience may be in order. Colonies build faster and function better as a larger unit, especially in the spring when heat generation and conservation are at a premium. IF the weather remains cool/cold, splitting them just to get colony numbers, may set you and the bees back. It is hard to predict the weather, but you can ensure there is plenty of food in the boxes, if it is needed and the rest is up to the bees and mother nature.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Kona Queen routinely handles requests to delay shipment of queens, it's part of the business when shipping to temperate climates.


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## Allen Martens (Jan 13, 2007)

If I am understanding you correctly you hope to use this 1 frame splits for blueberry pollination. If this is correct, I don't think they are going to be ready; just won't won't grow quickly enough in spring.

Small splits of one or two frames like you are planning work well if you include enough bees. The mother hives need to be pushed through April and May with sub and feed(if liquid feed isn't present around the brood nest) and brood robbed at every opportunity from the mother hives and place in the splits if the splits are to be ready for pollination.

If the splits are for next year than your plan should be fine. 

Is your pollination timetable going to be pushed back as well?


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## dgl1948 (Oct 5, 2005)

Do you have top entrances? If so why not plow enough snow to use for open feeding syrup and pollen in the yards. We have had to do this before. Right now our snow is gone. They are using syrup but are really hitting the pollen feeders hard.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

I agree with Allen.

Do some calculus. The populations usually follow an "S" curve. When you split, where on the curve will you put them? If you put them on back on the lower flat of the curve, you have missed keeping them in the steep part of the curve before they plateau. Remember, the steeper the curve, the faster they are growing.

Crazy Roland


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

I agree with Allen.

Do some calculus. The populations usually follow an "S" curve. When you split, where on the curve will you put them? If you put them on back on the lower flat of the curve, you have missed keeping them in the steep part of the curve before they plateau. Remember, the steeper the curve, the faster they are growing.

Crazy Roland


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## Dancing Bee Apiary (Jan 5, 2010)

….. no snowmobile ?


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## pleasantvalley (May 22, 2014)

This scenario plays out probably 4 out of every 5 years in central Alberta. I've hoofed it, borrowed sleds, rented mini hoe's and now have a SxS with tracks. The point is: we just get it done, as long as the temps agree. I've put patties and strips into hives where the snow is a foot over the top entrance.


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## Markt (Feb 8, 2012)

I really think you'll be further ahead knocking your queens back a bit and splitting out of a stronger colony... A monster hive can have brood robbed just about weekly as long as you don't get too greedy where if you take brood too early you just won't have a monster hive anymore. Have you tried one frame of brood splits in your climate at that time of year? I've never been happy with them until temps are above 20 degrees consistently, they're just too prone to abandoning sections of brood on the frame. I knocked an order of queens back a week last year even though it messed up the plan and definitely didn't regret it; they would have spent that extra week in a bank if I hadn't. Also protein's not that heavy, just throw it on a toboggan and muscle it in if you don't have any other means.


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Purchase some nucs from B.C. I hear they are having a good spring 
Delay the queen order.

Jean-Marc


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## Ben Little (Apr 9, 2012)

We checked on another yard the other day and have 100 % alive of the production hives, we lost some of our nucs. They got 2 pounds of sub and look good, nice big clusters, not spread out over the entire box, also they are still in good shape for honey 
We need our numbers up before pollination. If I can't delay the queens, I have no idea what we can do. 

I have tried delaying but maybe it is time to force a 2 week delay if possible. It's a gamble right now trying to do this I know, believe me I have been worrying a lot about the weather and what the heck I am going to do about this situation. 

The bloom will be driven back without a doubt from this weather but by how much, I have no idea, probably a week or 2 for sure because from what I heard the snow is deeper in the places I will be renting to and even at a warmer temp it will take a while to melt off.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

Splitting in the snow bank is bad business sir. Two halves do not make a whole! Can you wrap your splits? I put the splits over a double screen and set them on top of a hive and rewrap them both in a stack. But I am not the commercial guy you wanted so earnestly to be!:<} I am pulling for you and have faith you will figure it out.


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## Ben Little (Apr 9, 2012)

I just got a reply from a Horticulturist in NS that deals directly with the low bush blueberries and here is what he had to say about the situation in NS.

>>> Hi Ben,

Got your email through our website.

It’s hard to say what the impact will be for sure at this point. However, it is highly likely that bloom will be delayed. Even early fields still have 1-2 feet of snow on them as of today. The next week looks good for melting, but there will be a lot of water that has to leave the fields. It doesn’t appear there is a lot of frost in the soil so the snow might leave fairly quickly. If we have a warm May things might start to catch up (we don’t often have a warm May) I would say we are 2+ weeks behind at this point.
Damage is hard to tell at this point. There are some reports of ice layers in low lying areas which will not be good.
I would expect access roads to fields might be a challenge this spring (wash outs etc.)


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## Ben Little (Apr 9, 2012)

Vance G said:


> Splitting in the snow bank is bad business sir. Two halves do not make a whole! Can you wrap your splits? I put the splits over a double screen and set them on top of a hive and rewrap them both in a stack. But I am not the commercial guy you wanted so earnestly to be!:<} I am pulling for you and have faith you will figure it out.


I am trying to get the queens delayed until the week of May 18th. I don't really want to split in snow LOL. I will wrap and insulate the tops when doing the splits, we had wraps on hives last year the last week of may just because it was cool in some of the yards we had and took the wrap off in the blueberry fields


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Well, according to the feedback here with many good advice and the blueberry infos, I would
not split them that early. Feed them to build up the hive population first. Then when the queens got
here there should be enough bees to make your splits. Many times in a farming area the weather will
tell you what to do next. It is all local anyways with each year that is different.


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## RAK (May 2, 2010)

I would split as early as possible.


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## Ben Little (Apr 9, 2012)

I contacted the Queen organizer and he got us a delay until the week of the 18th from the supplier, so I feel better now  We won't be able to get 50% Kona and 50% Olivarez, they will all be Olivarez, I pray they are better then last years!!


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Ya that's smart. During cold springs I will delay my queens also. One week can make lot of difference.


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Good move Ben. Generally speaking bees development will more less match with the season. If season is late the bees will also be late. It is more of an event thing. Pussy willows then dandelions then blueberries. When dandelions are going is when hives can start to be split whenever that is. Some years could be first part of May other years could be early June. Follow those cues not the calendar. Queen guys follow the calendar though.
Good luck.

Jean-Marc


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

beepro said:


> Well, according to the feedback here with many good advice and the blueberry infos, I would
> not split them that early. Feed them to build up the hive population first. Then when the queens got
> here there should be enough bees to make your splits. Many times in a farming area the weather will
> tell you what to do next. It is all local anyways with each year that is different.


I split a number of mine before the blueberries and now they are swarming. Blueberries have been yielding a lot this year.


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Wished I had split more of mine before blueberries. They too are about to swarm. Just could not get queens. Blueberries are 3-4 weeks early this year. We got the queens first week of April but we had started going into blueberries by then.

Jean-Marc


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Blueberries in NC flowered about a week to 10 days later than average, but with the warm weather they are coming back intensely and may finish early. My grower has a variety of berry plants and over the last 4 years has always wanted the bees for 6 weeks. So when they didn't go in until the end of March, rather than the 15th or 18th, I was concerned that he would want them to stay into early May. Which would make things tight getting to apples in NY on time.

But now that things have sped up here, and the ground is still quite cold in NY, I am not as anxious. My apple growers aren't very happy when I am a day or two late. They let me know by taking fewer hives. Getting them from someone else. And people say there is a shortage of bees. Give me a break.


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## Ben Little (Apr 9, 2012)

If you click on the facebook link, you will see our issue with the snow in NS and why it will drive everything back 2-3 weeks :waiting: 
But I guess the only good thing about it is that it gives a little more time for preparation for the season, some things are buried in the snow that need fixing, like our flat deck truck hitch that broke and scared me a lot once I saw it, about 3/8 " of metal on both sides of a properly rated hitch was the only thing left holding the trailer that hauls our new Kabota and the safety chains were hooked to the hitch like I usually do. This spring we are getting a customized hitch made that is being welded to the frame with thick steel and it will have to rip the truck in 2 before breaking ! Some things on the market shouldn't be sold.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Can you guys work the hives (aka split work) while they are sitting in the pollination yards or is that seen as a no no by the growers?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Ben, from what you have mentioned about the condition of your hives, and now your feeding them... Right now I will wager a nice tall glass of your local pubs tap that not only will your bees be ready for the blue berry pollination but your going to be scrambling just before they head out to keep them from swarming. 
Golden eggs come in unusual ways in this beekeeping business...


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## Ben Little (Apr 9, 2012)

Hives are not to be touched once in the fields.

I hope you are right about them being crowded before berries.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Wager a beer?


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

We must do split work. Some are just way to strong. So we split them or the bees split. They are in fields up to 50 days from start to finish with all the different varieties. Too long. Growers like them strong but a little too strong coupled with a good spring equals swarming. From a beekeeping perspective best to go in with 5-6 good frames of bees so 6-7 weeks later you have 15-20 frames and bees have not swarmed. Not the best unit going in but saves a whole lot of work going around trying to cool bees down.

Jean-Marc


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## Ben Little (Apr 9, 2012)

Ian said:


> Wager a beer?


I'll buy you a Beer if that's all it takes to have bursting hives LOL.


jean-marc > The standard pollination unit says 8 frames of bees 4 full frames of brood and 2 frames honey. I know that is probably good for a unit but I always worry about someone thinking I am cheating them, so we go on the heavier side a bit to ease my worrying 

I want to try adding a medium to the pallets but I am not sure if it will be too high for my truck, so once the truck is unburied from the snow bank, I will test it out and see if I am happy with it. Last year they were in swarm mode when we took them out of the fields and they were mostly just a NZ 1Kg package to start in April.

With us being full time this year, we have enough time to properly manage all of the hives and stay on top of swarming. I just hope we have enough equipment for any unseen splitting that needs to be done, running a lot of double nucs should help with things this year as well, if someone gets crowded and needs a frame of brood or 2 removed, we can give it to a nuc that needs it or make another nuc and so on. Raising our own queens will by interesting this season as well !! I can't wait for that :banana:


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Ian said:


> Can you guys work the hives (aka split work) while they are sitting in the pollination yards or is that seen as a no no by the growers?


My blueberry grower doesn't have any problems with me working my bees while at his farm. They usually do need feeding syrup and a protein patty or two. There not usually being much nectar and blueberry pollen being rather weak.

Apples are a different story. Apples can all be pollinated in one good day of flight, so if the one good day is when a beekeeper is messing around in his hives those hives aren't pollinating.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

sqkcrk said:


> so if the one good day is when a beekeeper is messing around in his hives those hives aren't pollinating.


My bees are all in spring yards, and before the trees bloom they are hungry for the open feed soy feeders I have in each yard. Because they are all feeding within that yard it is easy to see the hives/yards activity through out the day. 

Sometimes I think the whole "work the hive, the hive is not working" bit was exaggerated but every spring I am reminded on how true this is. 

As I drive into the yard I see the hives working the soy feeders heavily. Soon as I start the the hive work in the yard slowly the activity lessens til the activity around the feeders is light. Some small spring holding yards (40 hives) the activity will almost stop. And I am not doing anything intensive, just putting patties on. It takes them hours to get back into foraging mode. 

We cant see this when they are out in the fields but I would assume exactly the same thing happens every time the hive/yard is disturbed.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Ben Little said:


> I'll buy you a Beer if that's all it takes to have bursting hives LOL.


here or there?


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

An excellent observation. Hive scales show what happens during a good flow on the day you go in and mess around.


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## Ben Little (Apr 9, 2012)

Ian said:


> here or there?


Probably easier to send you the money for a Beer LOL.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Ben Little said:


> Probably easier to send you the money for a Beer LOL.


ah, we are both young, someday our paths will cross... and then that beer will be drank


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## Ben Little (Apr 9, 2012)

Sounds good. :thumbsup:


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## Ben Little (Apr 9, 2012)

sqkcrk said:


> My blueberry grower doesn't have any problems with me working my bees while at his farm. They usually do need feeding syrup and a protein patty or two. There not usually being much nectar and blueberry pollen being rather weak.
> 
> 
> I have been told by more seasoned Beekeepers in the blueberry industry they don't want them touched during the time they are there. We always add 2 lbs of sub anyway and they come back full of capped honey from the fields, so I am more concerned about them not having enough space to store nectar then anything


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Ben, Snow arrived here last night... not much, about 5 cm but with that terrible wind it looked and felt like a day stripped from February! Not much we can do but wait this cold crap weather out. The hives are in good shape with honey, syrup, freshly stored pollen and patties in place. 
Nothing moderate about this years spring weather...


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## Ben Little (Apr 9, 2012)

I saw it on your blog Ian, it's still lingering around here in NS and melting away from the hives but getting to them from the main roads is still not good. I am trying to figure out how the heck we are supposed to lug that much syrup to the bees without taking a week per yard LOL, patties is one thing but syrup is way heavier :ws:


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

You need a gator


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## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

Ian, how concerned are you about chilled brood? Will the liquid syrup you have been feeding provide enough readily available carbohydrates to keep the brood warm.

I have been feeding patties and sugar blocks, but have left the insulation and wraps on the hives to mitigate damages for those late April-early May snows and cold.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

These hives are big enough they will be cooking along on their patties without skipping a beat into next week. Six degrees today with winds up to 60km and they were active at the syrup feeders. We have some -5's and -9's coming as night time lows end of this week. I am moving a 20 hive small 2 frame Nuc salvage yard back inside for a few days to shield them from the cold. These few nights will not be good for them.


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## dgl1948 (Oct 5, 2005)

Our hives are still wrapped but were have been feeding heavy for about 3 weeks. This early spring with no flowers for nectar has used a lot of feed. The poplars and willows have been giving up pollen for the last week so they have not been in the pollen feeders as much. We put patties on a couple of weeks ago and we have some of the strongest hives I have seen in the spring. We have queens coming in the first week of May so we will be unwrapping and splitting hives then. When we were putting on patties we checked the odd top hive for brood. We were finding five or more frames of brood in them. Things are looking good so far.
Winter losses came in at 15%. Some of these losses were hives full of bees from top to bottom. The milder winter seems to have kept some of these hives more active and they used all their winter stores of honey. They went into winter with two deeps of honey.


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## Ben Little (Apr 9, 2012)

My problem is the snow and now the muddy fields that are preventing me from driving to the bees, no frost in the ground and snow on top with a lot of rain makes a nice mud bath for a truck. 

I need a helicopter LOL


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## sharpdog (Jun 6, 2012)

Whats the update Ben, is the snow gone? How are those hives lookin'?


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## Ben Little (Apr 9, 2012)

The snow has finally subsided and the ground and grass is visible :applause:
It's funny to go back to the yards we were at 3 weeks ago and had to snowshoe in to and stand on top of the hives to get patties on and now it's total opposite. There is still a little snow around yards and probably will be right into June the way our weather is.

Finally going to crack boxes and take off the wraps to get in the bottom boxes and do some spring cleaning tomorrow, the syrup tote is filled and feeders are going on.
It's amazing how much honey they still have after the long winter, some hives still have 6-7 frames of honey in the top box with some brood mixed in the center frames. Less feeding is less expense I suppose


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## sharpdog (Jun 6, 2012)

Sounds good, I hope they are booming and ready to split!


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

Snow is such a great insulator. I am always amazed at how heavy singles are in the spring when they have been completely burried.


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