# Low viscosity honey?



## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Fizbi said:


> I cracked it open to try it out and I was shocked at how fast it poured out. Seriously? It was like thin syrup.
> I thought to myself, my bees don't make honey that runny. How can this be?
> 
> Can this be right? I'm thinking, no way. It has to be diluted somehow.


Very much likely this is honest honey just as it has been presented.

This is exactly the point I have been making in a parallel thread.
Bees will cap honey at whatever condition they feel is right.

Some of my honeys are, in fact, very runny.
This is how they have been capped.

People don't like to talk about it (as if it is some anathema OR it is not true).

For example, here is a batch - these honey naturally separates into two fractions.
The top is very runny.
The bottom is solid at the moment.
It was runny when was extracted (yet it was capped).


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## Fizbi (Feb 25, 2021)

GregV said:


> Very much likely this is honest honey just as it has been presented.
> 
> This is exactly the point I have been making in a parallel thread.
> Bees will cap honey at whatever condition they feel is right.
> ...


Thanks, Probably explains the differences in my honey viscosity.


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## Gino45 (Apr 6, 2012)

Very runny doesn't sound quite right to me. Real thin honey could have been pulled by the beekeepers prior to being capped and reduced to proper storage moisture level. I can get some thin honey if I leave the cappings honey exposed for a few days. That's because in my humid climate it absorbs moisture. When this happens I keep that limited amount and use it for myself ASAP because, over time, it will ferment.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Can we say that different source honey samples can vary in viscosity despite both being capped. Greg do you happen to have a source you could point us to that bees will sometimes cap honey at moisture levels as high as 25%

Bob Binnie had an interesting thread on honey and moisture. Indicated that inherent yeast levels and yeast type can affect fermentation or not at the same moisture levels. A honey which has been elevated in temperature can prevent the onset of fermentation. I see possible local conditions that could give rise to some conclusions that dont prove out in general practice. Binnie dries down honey to well below 18% if I remember his words correctly, before he will put his name on it as a packer of thousands of tons.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

crofter said:


> Greg do you happen to have a source you could point us to that bees will sometimes cap honey at moisture levels as high as 25%


Not a clue, Frank, about the sources.
It very well maybe NOT about the sources but about the *particular bees(?)*.
Yes, what about this? Why no one every said anything about this?

Even individual cows all produce milks of different fat content - that is common knowledge.
Why bees should conform to USDA standard, eh? 
Everyone will say how all bees are different, but yet this honey water content is assumed to be uniformed across the globe. 

All I do is extract very selectively and in small batches.
And so I got all kinds of honey - both thick and thin, and anything in between.
None of the honey have fermented terribly for me - some did ever so little (I posted) - just to make them even better.

I suspect all this talk about honey fermentation has more to do with large batch processing (I can see how a large batch of honey spoiled is a drag).
But frankly the entire talk is over-rated.
If you are small hobbyist - screw all the talk and enjoy the real deal.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

GregV said:


> Not a clue, Frank, about the sources.
> It very well maybe NOT about the sources by about the *particular bees(?)*.
> 
> All I do is extract very selectively and in small batches.
> ...


I am sure that source of the nectar is a variable on the viscosity. Ivy and I think Manuka are more of a gel. What I *was *angling for is written source of the information that bees will cap honey with up to 25% moisture. I know people often take off honey that netsexcessive high moisture due to a lot of uncapped cells with fresh nectar. I have also seen bees NOT cap cells during a lull in the flow, despite the fact that moisture content was around 17%. That is first hand experience.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

crofter said:


> What I *was *angling for is written source of the information that bees will cap honey with up to 25% moisture.


Why, never heard of heather honey?
Look it up - up to 25%.


Various non-floral honeys can also be high in water.
Up to 23% or so.
Look it up.

PS: I don't argue that the sources are out utmost importance in the end result of honey making; 
I just suggest that maybe the bees themselves are part of it too - this part is somehow written off as if non-essential (but I am unconvinced).


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Heck, and for the fun of it....
Here is a PDF copy of manual on the* honey authenticity analysis *for colleges (in Russian).
Pay attention to the highlighted ranges of water contents in 1)floral honeys, 2)non-floral honeys, 3)sugar honeys.
This is a compilation from various scientific sources (Table 2, page 28).
Should suffice for the "up to 25%" water content (published sources).
Unsure when I get to re-test that for myself.  
Low priority, people already have done the work.















https://nubip.edu.ua/sites/default/files/u104/%D0%95%D0%BA%D1%81%D0%BF%D0%B5%D1%80%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%B7%D0%B0%20%D0%BC%D0%B5%D0%B4%D1%83.pdf


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Here is an interesting web site.
It talks about what is generally good practice and also mentions a fair bit about outliers in moisture content. Despite having moisture content much higher than most standards suggest, they may or may not ferment.
My guess is that is influenced by the particular yeasts contained. Binnie mentions certain geographic areas susceptible to fermentation at levels others honey would not.


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/Beekeeping/comments/4rdul2


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

crofter said:


> Here is an interesting web site.
> It talks about what is generally good practice and also mentions a fair bit about outliers in moisture content. Despite having moisture content much higher than most standards suggest, they may or may not ferment.
> My guess is that is influenced by the particular yeasts contained. Binnie mentions certain geographic areas susceptible to fermentation at levels others honey would not.
> 
> ...


Certainly I can understand this:


> *Binnie *dries down honey to well below 18% if I remember his words correctly,* before he will put his name on it as a packer of thousands of tons.*


But being a small hobbyist I don't give a hoot.
I want to have the real deal honey for what it really is.
Otherwise, Walmart has all the honey at 18% water content guarantied.
Maybe some of that Walmart honey is even sourced from B. Binnie.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

GregV said:


> Certainly I can understand this:
> 
> 
> But being a small hobbyist I don't give a hoot.
> ...


The big boys can take advantage of the low moisture and high moisture honey combined and pasteurized so as not to ferment and it is all good. Not suggesting they would risk doing it but they could even water down the 17% stuff and it would meet the criteria. Tho Binnie is a big boy I am sure that HE values his rep. much too high to risk it with any such shenanigans!


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

crofter said:


> The big boys can take advantage of the low moisture and high moisture honey combined and pasteurized so as not to ferment and it is all good. Not suggesting they would risk doing it but they could even water down the 17% stuff and it would meet the criteria. Tho Binnie is a big boy I am sure that HE values his rep. much too high to risk it with any such shenanigans!


Certainly; it is his business.

But you and I pulled up enough data already that solidly show that capped honey water content can be all over the place (up to 25%).
This is normal and expected and no shenanigans are involved.

And the bees don't give a hoot of USDA expectations (though some people seem to think so, hehehe.. ).


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## gator75 (Apr 21, 2021)

First year Florida backyard beekeeper here. I pulled maybe 15 frames of honey at various times this year. The tallow was an average thickness. The rest was much more runny. Not quite like syrup, but runnier than any other honey I'd purchased. No feeding was done, no heating, just uncap (it was all 100% capped) extract and bottle. At first I was apologetic for the consistency when I gave it away to friends, but not for long as everyone raves about it and asks for more.

Mine is consumed quickly and I have no intention on giving it back to the hives.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Raw, unfiltered, unpasteurized and of random wetness and flavor - that what makes self-produced honey worth it.

Otherwise, why even bother with bees - boring, predictable, safe, and cheap - Walmart-grade honey is always available.


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