# Split now or wait until?



## Ranger N (Sep 23, 2020)

Hello everyone.. I would like to get a few Ideas on WHEN or IF I should split 5 production hives without jeopardizing honey crop this spring.

A little background: I have 5 production hives that have made it through so far. 2 weeks ago on a 70 degree day I reversed the deep and a medium and replaced a couple foundationless frames on the edges of the brood nest in both boxes. Additionally, I removed every other frame in the medium super that is on them with foundationless frames as well. I checked them this past weekend on a 73 degree day and confirmed that the queens have moved up to the deeps and each have about 2.5 frames with capped brood. 

1. With that being said, should I rotate the bottom medium back above the deep in a couple more weeks and then place a QE on and place the super back on, OR, leave the configuration as is until after our flow?

2. I have heard that you can take the queen and couple frames of brood over to a nuc and let the main hive make a queen and it WILL NOT compromise your honey crop. If so, when is this advisable?

I am in the piedmont of South Carolina, zone 8a.

Thanks to all for your thoughts..


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## Akademee (Apr 5, 2020)

Splitting jeopardizes your honey crop, it stalls production and forces bees to focus on other more urgent things. You can split very early, like you want to I'm sure, and or you can make sure that the bees already have drawn comb in their supers so they don't have to waste time and honey building it. You can split when the daytime temps are consistently in the 70s. If you split too early, weather conditions may not be favorable for her to go out on mating flights. The rule of thumb I learned is that splitting 2 weeks before your date of last frost is about the earliest you should split. But hey, you can take a risk and split as soon as you see capped drone brood with purple eyes (if you uncap a few drone cells) If you want.


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## Ranger N (Sep 23, 2020)

Akademee said:


> Splitting jeopardizes your honey crop, it stalls production and forces bees to focus on other more urgent things. You can split very early, like you want to I'm sure, and or you can make sure that the bees already have drawn comb in their supers so they don't have to waste time and honey building it. You can split when the daytime temps are consistently in the 70s. If you split too early, weather conditions may not be favorable for her to go out on mating flights. The rule of thumb I learned is that splitting 2 weeks before your date of last frost is about the earliest you should split. But hey, you can take a risk and split as soon as you see capped drone brood with purple eyes (if you uncap a few drone cells) If you want.


Academe, thanks for the response. I have seen a few capped drone cells, only a few, in the hives this past weekend. I will keep a look out for drones. I kind of thought that I would probably need to see drones before taking a queen out and putting her in a NUC.
How about reversing the deep and medium back to their original location in a couple of weeks? Any thoughts on that? thanks..


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## rdimanin (Jan 17, 2020)

Ranger N said:


> Academe, thanks for the response. I have seen a few capped drone cells, only a few, in the hives this past weekend. I will keep a look out for drones. I kind of thought that I would probably need to see drones before taking a queen out and putting her in a NUC.
> How about reversing the deep and medium back to their original location in a couple of weeks? Any thoughts on that? thanks..


I would leave it as is until after the flow. Disrupting the brood nest by reversing supers causes stress to the colony & that's something you'd want to avoid until after the flow. If you do reverse again, you may delay development of the colony for a few weeks. Sometimes doing nothing is best.


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## Murdock (Jun 16, 2013)

IF THE HIVE IS STRONG...May 1, put the Queen on a frame with bees into a nuc, add another frame of capped brood and bees, add 1 food frame, finish nuc with drawn comb frames. Move this nuc away from donor hive to prevent a robbing event (probably not going to happen during a flow). The original hive will continue to produce honey, you have not hurt the population very badly but they will dwindle for about 30 days. You will get a brood break for mite management, they will make you a new queen and she will be laying in a month. Your honey crop will not suffer because the nurse bees will not have brood to tend so will convert to foragers. This is a variation of the WAKEFORD METHOD as told by David Cushman on his website. There are several variations but some are quite involved... I simplified my approach to fit my location and timing. You could probably do it a little earlier if your weather will be good. See the queen life cycle and when she will hatch and probably be on a mating flight.


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## mtnmyke (Apr 27, 2017)

Exactly what I was thinking Murdock. Dead on.

I've requeened a few hives using virgins or cells. Due to the brood break the bees having nothing else to do but make honey. If you time it right a queenless colony will produce a LOT of honey.

Once the new queen begins laying I tend to equalize the hive with brood from a colony which has peaked. Keeps that hive working and boosts up the hive with the new queen.


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## Murdock (Jun 16, 2013)

I did this 2 years ago with good results except it was later and a hurricane blew thru. Same 2 hives again but earlier this time. It all fails you can combine the nuc back to the hive.


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## Ranger N (Sep 23, 2020)

Murdock said:


> IF THE HIVE IS STRONG...May 1, put the Queen on a frame with bees into a nuc, add another frame of capped brood and bees, add 1 food frame, finish nuc with drawn comb frames. Move this nuc away from donor hive to prevent a robbing event (probably not going to happen during a flow). The original hive will continue to produce honey, you have not hurt the population very badly but they will dwindle for about 30 days. You will get a brood break for mite management, they will make you a new queen and she will be laying in a month. Your honey crop will not suffer because the nurse bees will not have brood to tend so will convert to foragers. This is a variation of the WAKEFORD METHOD as told by David Cushman on his website. There are several variations but some are quite involved... I simplified my approach to fit my location and timing. You could probably do it a little earlier if your weather will be good. See the queen life cycle and when she will hatch and probably be on a mating flight.


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## Ranger N (Sep 23, 2020)

Murdock said:


> IF THE HIVE IS STRONG...May 1, put the Queen on a frame with bees into a nuc, add another frame of capped brood and bees, add 1 food frame, finish nuc with drawn comb frames. Move this nuc away from donor hive to prevent a robbing event (probably not going to happen during a flow). The original hive will continue to produce honey, you have not hurt the population very badly but they will dwindle for about 30 days. You will get a brood break for mite management, they will make you a new queen and she will be laying in a month. Your honey crop will not suffer because the nurse bees will not have brood to tend so will convert to foragers. This is a variation of the WAKEFORD METHOD as told by David Cushman on his website. There are several variations but some are quite involved... I simplified my approach to fit my location and timing. You could probably do it a little earlier if your weather will be good. See the queen life cycle and when she will hatch and probably be on a mating flight.


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## Ranger N (Sep 23, 2020)

Thanks Murdoch, I will give that a try. I appreciate the input.

Mtnmyke, thanks as well. The production hives have come through extremely well so far.

I will definitely give the May 1st timeframe a shot. All 5 of the queens are last years ladies so they successfully got through the winter thus far.

ON ANOTHER NOTE, I tried to reply to you all a couple of times and for some reason I could not input narrative as you can see above. Now I can’t figure out how to remove them.
Thanks again...


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## Murdock (Jun 16, 2013)

The nuc that comes out of this can be used as a resource hive... pull out brood for a weak colony or let it build new comb. Push it into an overcrowded condition and harvest queen cells.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Ranger, you will see that Murdock and I are in agreement. If May first is when the supers start getting filled, then that is the date to use.


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## Outbackjak (Mar 20, 2021)

JWPalmer said:


> Ranger, you will see that Murdock and I are in agreement. If May first is when the supers start getting filled, then that is the date to use.



JW
When wo up old you split this year
? Friday is going to be 80 degrees. 
Thanks
Shane
Spotsylvania va


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## mtnmyke (Apr 27, 2017)

Outbackjak said:


> JW
> When wo up old you split this year
> ? Friday is going to be 80 degrees.
> Thanks
> ...


I think your first sentence had a stroke.

Where are you located? If you have drones out flying then you can start splitting, especially if you're in the 80s.


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## Outbackjak (Mar 20, 2021)

mtnmyke said:


> I think your first sentence had a stroke.
> 
> Where are you located? If you have drones out flying then you can start splitting, especially if you're in the 80s.


JW is in my area.
Mean to say ,when would you split this year?
I am in spotsylvania va


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Shane, I think this Friday would be an excellent time to make a walk away split. I already have several queens in mating nucs but am worried that the available drones are few. In another week or two, this won't be a problem in our area.


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## Outbackjak (Mar 20, 2021)

I figured, but always great to have an experienced guy give some advice.
Thank you!


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