# Bucksbees Organic IPM conversion to Treatment Free.



## bucksbees (May 19, 2015)

Integrated Pest Management with organic compounds to conversion of Integrated Pest Management of Treatment Free stock with Separate Treatment Free stock with organic treatment to maximize honey production.

Equipment, all brood chambers are 8 frame deeps; all supers are 8 frame deeps. This allows for frame exchange up or down with in any given hive, and allows the sharing of resources with other respected hives. I use solid bottom boards and screened bottom boards with solid bottom with door access to use trays of mineral oil and sticky board for observations. I use migratory tops with B-wing attachment. Hive stands are cinder blocks placed 8-12ft apart with 4x4 connecting them. All hives use a landing board 3 inches deep. Heavy stones are used to weigh down the tops. I do not use a queen excluder. 

The goal is to move from an organic based treatment system to a treatment free system, while paying attention to mite levels, productivity, brood rearing, honey production, workability; along with testing concept and proof of viability of working a strain of bees that handle heavy mites loads of 15-20% without collapsing, to using same bees for mass honey production with a single organic treatment in the spring. Root stock of TF bees will not be treated, but daughters and or sisters will be to allow for a more comprehensive test. 

Phase 1. 

Basic management of hive setup starting from smallest cavities to root stock, to production hives. 

Smallest cavities consist of a single 8 frame deep. Any frames of comb that cannot be covered by bees, are replaced with wooden frames with a solid plastic foundation covered in wax. These use solid bottom boards. Entrance is reduced to allow bees to guard against robbing. When needed, are feed a syrup of 1:1, by a hive top feeder. Purpose is to get hives to density where they can handle 8 deep frames. These are used for splits and larger mating style nucs. 

Standard single deep of 8 frames is basic over winter depth. They sit on freeman style bases. A single half application of MAQS is used in the fall to knock back mites. During brood-less period, a single dose of OAV can be applied to reduce mite infestation even further. Both are considered organic compounds. Once these are used, the respected hive is no longer TF, and must be managed as such.

Double deeps over wintered are considered to be production level hives. They sit on freeman style bases. They receive a full application of MAQS used in the fall to knock back mites. During brood-less period, a single dose of OAV can be applied to reduce mite infestation even further.

The production hives bottom brood deep is checked three times per year. Once in the spring to perform box rotation, adding a third deep with checker boarding. Second time is during summer towards the end of the flow before the start of the dearth to observe hive health, and queen rightness. Third time is in the fall for winter prep, to evaluate bee density and honey storage.

All hives are checked though out the year for eggs and larva.

All hives starting in February or March depending on weather will/get a monthly check of mite levels. Mite checks are performed with alcohol. 

TF hives will be run alongside treated hives. TF hives will be used to graft into splits or into small splits in early spring off of production hives as a secondary level of swarm prevention.

Drone brood from colonies that do not pass test will be raked to reduce the chances of that genetic lines ability to influence the next generations.

Once yard is setup with 20 level production hives, and 20 TF hives in either the single or double deep configuration. The next step in the process will be a winter culling. After winter culling hives will hit phase 2 of the conversion system. 

Phase 2 of the conversion system consist of promoting queen strains that show an aptitude to handle winter infestation. Any production hives showing to be lagging or weak will be requeened with daughters from said queen lines. Special care will be noted which hives in both the production line and TF are sisters so that better comparisons can be achieved. Spring will consist of a grafting time frame to replace winters culling and boost TF stock numbers.

Hives sisters that show aptitude for spring build up along with winter survival, along with the prelisted tracking information, will be use to select the TF queen for summer solstice grafting. This is to prepare the third generation for observation, data collecting, and testing for the next winter culling. 

All hives will have the data collected on the levels of infestation that show hive collapse. This can be used to correspond to daughters’ numbers when it happens, and used as a test to show increases in mite level tolerance. 

This system is a basic straight forward process that, with the hope, should have over the course of many, many winter culling’s push to the top a locally adapted strain that meets the needed criteria, and show what that strain is capable of off treatment and on treatment.


----------



## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

:thumbsup:

excellent synopsis buck, many thanks for starting the thread, and looking forward to tracking your progress!


----------



## msl (Sep 6, 2016)

Very nice, Look forward to updates


----------



## tpope (Mar 1, 2015)

I look forward to following this effort.


----------



## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

:thumbsup:
Following.
This could be very important for my german forum members who are no hobbyists but sideliners.
Already there are some who try to do the same but they are not as determined as you are.
I will translate some parts of this into my forum if you allow.

Since you started your experience here, can you give some informations again about your bees?
And maybe about your climate. 
Thanks, Sibylle


----------



## bucksbees (May 19, 2015)

Yes Siwolke, translate and use as needed.

Bee stock consist of cutouts that are at least 2 years old, VSH hives, and location of breading yard in a TF drone area. 

Climate is warm winters around 38 degrees, hot summers above 95 degrees. Average rainfall is roughly 45-50 inches per year. We are about 450 feet above sea level. The 2 miles radius from yard has 70% forest and undergrowth, 30% pasture and fallow land. Soil in our area is sandy loamy soil.


----------



## bucksbees (May 19, 2015)

Built a spread sheet to handle the data, and a scale system to help evaluate the hives.

For Example

Hive identification: HR3N2 Stands for Home yard Row 3 Nuc 2
DTG: 22Jun17 15:25 Stands for June 22 2017 at 3:25pm
Queen Strain: BG37G3S4(9) Stands for Beta queen line, grafted, March 2017, Generation 3, Sister 4 of 9

Hive Size: 4 Deeps

Number of drawn frames: 27

Mite Infestion %: 3
scale 1-10 4
Brood rearing: 
A. Number of frames: 8
B. Pattern. Solid with pockets of empty cells
scale 1-10 6
Frames of honey produced: 11
scale 1-10 6
New Comb produced: 10
scale 1-10 8
Workability: 
A. Flow Easy Working
B. Dearth Most evil SOBs alive
scale 1-10 5
Total: 29
T/TF Treatment Free
Notes: Hive still building, Queen line selected for OTS.


----------



## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

Cell size, foundations, natural comb? Narrow beespace between frames?
How much drone brood do they raise?
VSH behavior observed?
What race of bees( or hybrids)? Are they africanized bees?

I hope you did not post this already. Sorry to be so curious.


----------



## bucksbees (May 19, 2015)

Cell size is 5.4, foundation is plastic with wax coating, (don't use natural comb due to any frame could be moved to a supper and must be able to handle an exactor and not blow out), frame spacing is standard, ( I don't shave the wood, thought about to produce a tighter brood nest area, but since any frame can be moved, need them to be able the other jobs as well).

Drones are raised as much or as little as needed, unless that queen is determined to be subpar, then any drone cells she lays till replaced will be raked.

VSH has been observed, random cells cleared out in the brood area, along with seeing them dragging out larva. I have not seen any patch bigger then my thumb of this behavior.

My first gen were Italians(not pure), their daughters and grand daughters have been hybrids with local drones. I think I see a Carniolan pattern every now and then on some of the worker bees. Yes we are on the edge of the AHB zone, but any found are wiped out. Last report of a hive that could be was 2 years ago, and it got the culling treatment, all other hives in that yard were requeened. I know we have the genes in the area for AHB, but they are not as pronounced. 

Please ask questions, this process went from abstract thought as a mental massage with a time frame 5 years away to a concrete system in less then 2 weeks. I know I have over looked something, yours and other people questions help me more then you know.

Also thank you, to everyone for following, I rather fail in front of others so that they to may learn then succeed and help no one.


----------



## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

Many thanks BB, this gives a very good picture.

Failing...what´s failing, there is no failing, it´s only learning. Answer to yourself only.


----------



## Juhani Lunden (Oct 3, 2013)

bucksbees said:


> Standard single deep of 8 frames is basic over winter depth. They sit on freeman style bases. A single half application of MAQS is used in the fall to knock back mites. During brood-less period, a single dose of OAV can be applied to reduce mite infestation even further. Both are considered organic compounds. Once these are used, the respected hive is no longer TF, and must be managed as such.
> 
> Double deeps over wintered are considered to be production level hives. They sit on freeman style bases. They receive a full application of MAQS used in the fall to knock back mites. During brood-less period, a single dose of OAV can be applied to reduce mite infestation even further.
> 
> ...


Very interesting. It is good to have a plan and stick to it, what ever comes. Time will give the award. Of course minor changes may come along. Good luck!

I have couple questions:
-When is a hive considered to be part of the TF group?

- What if the TF group hive gets mite damage signs or dangerously high levels of mites? 

-What is the estimated effect of full MAQS and one single OAV treatment together? 

- How do you determine when AHB is observed? Mean enough? 

- Queens are freemated in "a TF drone area"? Your bees make that area? 


Comment (general, not to you): 
VSH is not all cell openings and brood removals, which can be seen in every hive sometimes if mite levels are high. VSH factor is only the phenomena, when a hive is examined and proven to select and take out only infested brood. To determine if a hive has VSH, you need laborous microskope investigations.


----------



## bucksbees (May 19, 2015)

Treatment free hives start out that way. These are from cutouts that have been at least 2 years in the same cavity space. 

Part of this is to test the limit of infestation before collapse. If it collapses at 5%, then it gets culled, if it happens at 12%, then TF management takes place to save the queens genes. 

MAQS is rated if I remember correctly to be at 95%, then OAV during brood less has the same if not higher. 

For AHB, when the defense force numbers in the thousands, the attack smell is bad enough to make you gag, and they follow me through the woods, across the creek, back through different woods, over a bridge, and follow me to the house, that is enough for me to call it.

Neighbor has dumped a dozen bees into hives on his place years and years ago. He does not treat, just takes a supper of honey off each one, and lets them be. So, he has been flooding the area by himself with TF drones for years. 

The queens I have brought into the area were sold as VSH queens. Their brood pattern matches my TF hives. While only anecdotal, it leads me to think in that direction. The one surviving queen that came from a completely different area, does not show that sign.

A side note, a keeper discovered one of his hives, last fall came in at 15%, he pulled the honey, not expecting the hive to make, he ran 1 treatment, and left it to die or live on its own. It made it through winter and is one of his leading producers. This lead to a discussion of drinking, and people having different levels of tolerance. So, could different bee genes handle different loads?


----------



## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

bucksbees said:


> I know I have over looked something, yours and other people questions help me more then you know.


Randy's latest article in the June ABJ talks about the need to breed for pupae that are highly sensitive to varroa or their vectored viruses (like apis cerana pupae) so that the plagued pupae will altruistically give off a scent that will allow other bees to identify them as sick or dying and remove them and their accompanying mites from the hive. That may or may not be consistent with your goal of having bees that tolerate relatively high levels of infestation.


----------



## msl (Sep 6, 2016)

my thoughts...
There are 2 functions. 
Mite Resistance(keeping mite levels low) and mite tolerance (surviving high mite loads)
Selecting for mite tolerance means (more or less) virus/pathogen tolerance, the problem with this is a slight shift in or a new pathogen can send you back to square one. 
Selecting for mite resistance attacks the vector of the pathogens.
with DWV 1,2,3 out there, 4 and 5 is the obvious next step and Ss1 is looking like it may explode http://www.uwstout.edu/news/article...entify-bacterium-that-may-kill-honey-bees.cfm it would seem dealing with the vector is #1 as we can't select for what hasn't happen yet, but we can select to limit its effects.. 
In short... the next bee plague is never more than 2 years from a trip to the almonds away, the less dirty needles in your yard spreading it the better your chances.


----------



## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

To me this is VSH, living pupa which survive and hatch, mites taken by the bees after opening the cells ( seen at a friends, carniolan mutts)
















and this is hygienic behavior, pupa dead already:









Maybe it´s possible to strengthen the tolerance to virus leaving some honey for food and changing other management circumstances.
The susceptibility may be higher with environmental influences through pesticides or fungicides.


----------



## bucksbees (May 19, 2015)

River, looking forward to reading it. In fact I am going to go ahead and reread all his stuff concerning what I am doing. Hope more nuggets of wisdom jump out at me.

msl, I keep my hives stationary. The closest migratory storage yard is over 20 miles away. To me this does two things, reduces the effect of new viruses by distance, and killing off bees in the buffer zone. The new viruses will still reach me, but hope that they are weaken enough that the bees develop a better genetic response to it. 

Siwolke, I see this in both of mine. 

Side note, all hives over winter on honey. If it is good enough for me to eat during the winter, then it is good enough for them.


----------



## lharder (Mar 21, 2015)

I think tolerance is a good place to start, then start selecting for reduced mite numbers. There is quite a bit of variation between hives so some selection is possible. That is the direction I am going. 

I had an inspector go through my hives. She had a sugar shaker with her. It worked pretty well and its fast. It probably is useful to identify the outliers that have no mite defense and do something about them, and start selecting those with low mite numbers.


----------



## bucksbees (May 19, 2015)

Yes lharder, I think that will be the best path at this point. 

I did OTS on my TF hives a month ago. Been able to increase that number to 6 TF. The queens are laying like champs. The only thing holding me back is equipment.


----------



## Juhani Lunden (Oct 3, 2013)

SiWolKe said:


> To me this is VSH, living pupa which survive and hatch, mites taken by the bees after opening the cells ( seen at a friends, carniolan mutts)
> 
> View attachment 33442


It is not VSH to the rest of the world. It is a prenomena called Bald Headed Brood.


----------



## bucksbees (May 19, 2015)

This was where I show my ignorance. I assumed those were cells the bees were tearing down and throwing out the pupae to reduce mite prorogation.


----------



## Juhani Lunden (Oct 3, 2013)

Bald Headed Brood phenomena has nothing to do with varroa resistance. It is seen in all hives with heavy varroa infestation.


----------



## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

bucksbees said:


> This was where I show my ignorance. I assumed those were cells the bees were tearing down and throwing out the pupae to reduce mite prorogation.


The bald headed brood still emerges.
The bees smell the stress and open the cells, if the mites are at the bottom they pull out the pupa and it dies.



> Bald Headed Brood phenomena has nothing to do with varroa resistance. It is seen in all hives with heavy varroa infestation.


That´s true because the behavior seen does not automatically mean resistance.
A resistant hive is able to expel almost all diseased brood, not only a part of it.

That´s the reason why VSH behavior could mean a weak hive. With a high infestation and the loosing of much diseased brood the hive dwindles.


----------



## Juhani Lunden (Oct 3, 2013)

SiWolKe said:


> That´s the reason why VSH behavior could mean a weak hive. With a high infestation and the loosing of much diseased brood the hive dwindles.


Yes, it could. The final question is: Is there a trade-off for VSH ability and how big that trade-off is? (Trade-off means bees can do less other jobs, brood rearing and honey gathering for instance if they concentrate much on taking out infested brood) 
In an E-mail discussion with BartJan Fernhout, the Chairman of Arista Beeresearch Foundation, he said that he believes in the final product, when VSH quality has been transfered to a normal beestock, the mite infestation levels are so low, below 1%, that the trade-off is not very big. In other words, in the future, varroa resistant (VSH) hives have normal size and their honey crops are equal to all other bees.


----------



## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

Juhani Lunden said:


> Yes, it could. The final question is: Is there a trade-off for VSH ability and how big that trade-off is? (Trade-off means bees can do less other jobs, brood rearing and honey gathering for instance if they concentrate much on taking out infested brood)
> In an E-mail discussion with BartJan Fernhout, the Chairman of Arista Beeresearch Foundation, he said that he believes in the final product, when VSH quality has been transfered to a normal beestock, the mite infestation levels are so low, below 1%, that the trade-off is not very big. In other words, in the future, varroa resistant (VSH) hives have normal size and their honey crops are equal to all other bees.


What´s a normal bee stock? Please explain the term, thanks.

Watching a hive´s behavior after splitting you see how the bee´s priorities change.
They are never static. Every moment needs a new adaption.

So I believe VSH must be triggered by a special low threshold as this is done with breeding hygienic bees.

It´s not enough to have the VSH genetics, the breeder must select for colonies which have a low threshold, just like the breeders who select for mite biting bees. These must attack every mite.

Even so I believe in a stress situation a low threshold is not enough and the behavior could start too late or even be extinct for a while.

VSH comes too late when virus is already spread in the colony. So VSH is a symptom fighting behavior, IMO, not a prophylactic behavior like mite biting.


----------



## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

SiWolKe said:


> VSH comes too late when virus is already spread in the colony. So VSH is a symptom fighting behavior, IMO, not a prophylactic behavior like mite biting.


If the colony is VSH enough, they keep the varroa load low from the start and virus doesn't overtake the colony. If the colony already has a high varroa load and virus load too high, and you requeen with VSH stock, or the VSH level is low, then I can agree with what you say.


----------



## bucksbees (May 19, 2015)

Juhani Lunden said:


> Yes, it could. The final question is: Is there a trade-off for VSH ability and how big that trade-off is? (Trade-off means bees can do less other jobs, brood rearing and honey gathering for instance if they concentrate much on taking out infested brood).


I hope, with the data collected, I can have better insight into an answer.


----------



## Juhani Lunden (Oct 3, 2013)

SiWolKe said:


> What´s a normal bee stock? Please explain the term, thanks.


Normal bee stock= normal bees, what ever race, used by beekeepers around the world. 



SiWolKe said:


> So I believe VSH must be triggered by a special low threshold as this is done with breeding hygienic bees.
> 
> It´s not enough to have the VSH genetics,


Nothing to believe in this matter.

VSH is a measured quality of bees. The measurement is done under microskope. It takes a lot of time and efford. Sometimes bees must be weeks beforehand specially infested with mites, in order to make the measurements more easy. Without specially adding mites to the colony, the person making the measurement must open several hundreds of cells and look for mite offspring under loop. If he cannot find mites, he cannot determine how big is the VSH % of that colony. 

Lets take an example: person making the measurement has opened 100 cells and looked in every cell with microskope. He has found 10 cells with mites. (10% infestation is pretty high for normal hives). Of these 10 mites 7 had no offspring and 3 had offspring. The result of this VSH measurement is 7/10 x 100=70% VSH. 


VSH must not be triggered by a special low threshold. It is there. If the bees are 50% VSH, they open 50% of the infested brood, if they are 75% VSH they take out 75% of the brood, if they are 100% VSH they take all infested brood out. No thresholds, no triggering.


About 75% VSH quality (= they take out 75% of the infested brood) is enough for the bees they survive perfectly without threatments, nothing else needed to cope with mites.


----------



## Juhani Lunden (Oct 3, 2013)

Juhani Lunden said:


> About 75% VSH quality (= they take out 75% of the infested brood) is enough for the bees they survive perfectly without threatments, nothing else needed to cope with mites.


Did not find any studies to support this claim, must be personal information from Josef Koller or some member of the Arista group


----------



## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

Juhani,

I'm confused about the Bald Headed Brood phenomenon. Everything I've read indicates this is caused by wax moth damage. If it is associated with mites as per your post, wouldn't that indicate that some form of hygiene is taking place due to varroa? How does this hygiene differ from VSH? Trying to wrap my head around hygienic behavior in relation to mites versus true VSH behavior.


----------



## Juhani Lunden (Oct 3, 2013)

Nordak said:


> Juhani,
> 
> I'm confused about the Bald Headed Brood phenomenon. Everything I've read indicates this is caused by wax moth damage. If it is associated with mites as per your post, wouldn't that indicate that some form of hygiene is taking place due to varroa? How does this hygiene differ from VSH? Trying to wrap my head around hygienic behavior in relation to mites versus true VSH behavior.


Bald Headed Brood phenomenon is like I said seen in all hives when infestations raise.
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0116672
"In their 40 h test of VSH activity, [15] found no difference in the number of uncapped infested cells between unselected and selected VSH stocks. However, there was a significant difference in the reduction of infestation between the two groups of bees. Again, this observation indicates that the unselected Italian bees were uncapping the infested cells, but recapped the cells rather than remove the brood."


There is a lot in common with hygienic behaviour and VSH, but what irritates me, is when people talk that "here is a hive with VSH" when they have absolutely no idea what is the amount of VSH quality in that colony. I would not say a colony is hygienic just because I see one or even ten larvae thrown out of the hive. Every single hive can throw out larvae, in many different situations and for many reasons. Not just because they are hygienic.

Hygienic behaviour is a measurable quality of bees, and the test is done with liquid nitrogen, freezing or making holes in cells. 
VSH is a measurable quality of bees which test procedure I decribed above.

They are working tools for a breeder, but if I were to breed a varroa resistant colony, I would most certainly make a VSH test of my bees, and skip the hygienic test just to save time to do something else. Why? Because to my knowledge nobody has bred varroa resistant strain of bees making hygienic tests. Correct me if I´m wrong.

I think that the term VSH should be used only when a beekeeper has with measurements confirmed that bees open infested cells and remove infested pupa. To see bees open cells is by no means proof that that colony has VSH quality to any considerable amount.


----------



## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

Thanks for the response. That helped clarify.


----------



## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

I´m still a sceptic but thanks for the explanations. 


> If the colony is VSH enough, they keep the varroa load low from the start and virus doesn't overtake the colony. If the colony already has a high varroa load and virus load too high, and you requeen with VSH stock, or the VSH level is low, then I can agree with what you say.


I understand, thanks Michael.


----------



## bucksbees (May 19, 2015)

Morning folks,

As an update, did not want people to think I have abandoned my pursuit. However we experienced a house fire. All data concerning varroa loads has been lost. I have spent the last 3-4 weeks taken care of the family, and getting us setup in a new home for the time being. With all records being lost. I must go by memory. I am still set for the culling of the 2018 winter. Records might not have the best data by then, but will move ahead.

As a side note. I extracted yesterday. pulled 30 deep frames and now have 15 gallons of honey. This was off of two treated production hives, and 4 hives that had either a problem of swarming or supercedure. I still have 20 uncapped frames, and looking to buy a moisture thingy to see if good to extract. 

All tf hives are booming, and will use empty extracted frames to boost room and expansion on them, along with making summer splits over the next week. 

Thank you for ya'lls time.


----------



## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

thanks for the update buck and very sorry to hear about the fire and associated losses, hopefully there were no injuries.

nice to hear about the honey harvest and successes with your tf colonies.

best wishes for getting everything back in order.


----------



## tpope (Mar 1, 2015)

Sorry to hear about your patch of bad luck. I hope that it gets better and stays that way.

Congrats on the honey harvest. I am sure that you will put the empty comb to good use with your expansion plans.


----------



## msl (Sep 6, 2016)

get well be well catch ya and your results in the spring !


----------



## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

Sorry to hear about the fire. Please update when you are established again.


----------



## bucksbees (May 19, 2015)

Thank you guys for the well wishes.

Have 13 hives up and running. Of those 6 are TF. My expansion should take me above 20 going into winter. Goal is for 25, but that will depend on the summer dearth, and fall flow.


----------



## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

> Did not find any studies to support this claim


 Juhani, Read the information on Harbo's website. He makes similar statements to the effect that a queen that is homozygous for VSH and is mated to VSH drones will produce daughters that are all highly VSH even if random mated.


----------



## bucksbees (May 19, 2015)

End of Summer up date. Of the 6 TF hives, 2 have failed. This places me at 4 TF hive going into fall. These 4 have built into double deep status. With Goldenrod starting to bloom, and the cool days, summer rains, and the first freeze forecasted in December, we should have a nice fall flow. 

I have one production hive that shows evidence of a high mite load. I have rampant bald brood, larva and pupa chewed in half. No evidence of a virus load. I am inclined to think this is signs of hygienic behavior. I have learned that this Queen and her sister Queen are granddaughters from Baton Rouge VSH program breeder Queen. I lost their mother to swarming on March 1st of this year. Their hives are 3.5 miles from the breeding yards of the daughters of the breeding queen. There is a chance they were able to breed with both local mutts, and drones from the VSH line.

I am torn on either using them in my queen breeding program or not. They could be used in either my TF program or treated program. They both were able to produce excess honey for harvesting even though they were the daughters of a swarm. They have good temperament. They do produce an excessive amount of proplise. Looking for open advice.


----------



## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

Hi again 

Why don´t you take the easy way and wait the overwinter surviving?
If they can take the mite load and still thrive in spring you might do an alcohol wash and start to evaluate your colonies. In the tf program you may even do 2 washes, the second one in summer. So you will know if they are of value.
This is how I will proceed if I have survivors.
With your climate you can breed queens very late and shift the failing ones in autumn.

How was Irma? Seems you are back to normal life


----------



## bucksbees (May 19, 2015)

To me if they are running with 75% of what I am looking for, then a culling could set me back. A few daughters from them could help in the evaluation process. 

Irma was 1400 miles or 2250 km. 

Harvey was 400 miles or 640 km. I have seen reports of whole apiaries wiped out with brood chambers hanging from trees and frames shattered against the ground. 

I have contacted a few folks down there and offering queen cells in the spring if they need them.


----------



## Juhani Lunden (Oct 3, 2013)

Riverderwent said:


> Randy's latest article in the June ABJ talks about the need to breed for pupae that are highly sensitive to varroa or their vectored viruses (like apis cerana pupae) so that the plagued pupae will altruistically give off a scent that will allow other bees to identify them as sick or dying and remove them and their accompanying mites from the hive. That may or may not be consistent with your goal of having bees that tolerate relatively high levels of infestation.



Interesting thoughts. 

Lets imagine we have had two breeding lines in order to get TF bees. These two groups of TF bees are: in one group the pupae are sensitive to varroa and their viruses and in the other group they are not. 

In the group where pupae are sensitive: adult bees feed viruses to all pupae and therefore the end result is a weak colony which "cleverly" removes every mite, but VSH kills the colony growth.
In the group where pupae are not sensitive: adult bees feed viruses to all pupae, but only those sensitive to viruses get removed and the colony growth remains near normal.


----------

