# Acceptance of PF100 and PF120 frames



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Well, my large cell packages have been on some PF120's now for two weeks. They are between wax dipped PermaComb so the spacing is 1 1/4" (PermaComb has no spacers). They are drawing it perfectly. I'd say "nicely" but they are actually exactly on every cell. I'm impressed. I already had 240 of the PF120s, and I just ordered 1760 more to make it an even 2000. I figure they will make inexpensive small cell for nucs. Mine so far have measured 4.95mm which is the same as the wax coated PC which have worked well.


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## kmartin (Apr 15, 2007)

Michael, are these plastic small cell foundations or standard size? I went to the Mann-Lake site and thier catalog didn't mention cell size.


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## Keith Benson (Feb 17, 2003)

Michael Bush said:


> Mine so far have measured 4.95mm which is the same as the wax coated PC which have worked well.


So are you saying that you perceive the same benefits as 4.9 and smaller comb with this product?

Keith


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## JaiPea (Sep 27, 2005)

It would be interesting to know if large cell hives draw out the PF120 as well as your small cell hives are.

PF120 seems like a natural match to use with HSC in a newly hived swarm. It gives them comb to build and should reduce their tendency to abscond. 

> I just ordered 1760 more to make it an even 2000

If Mann Lake is selling these off because they are changing suppliers you will have the market cornered.


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## Beemeister (Jun 26, 2006)

I see that Mann Lake also has a PF-500 and a PF-520 Rite-cell Pro Frame. Does anyone know what the cell size is on these? Is it the same as the PF-100 and PF-120?

Thanks. 

TIM


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Michael, are these plastic small cell foundations or standard size? I went to the Mann-Lake site and thier catalog didn't mention cell size.

No, it doesn't. But they are 4.95mm.

http://www.bushfarms.com/images/MannLakeFramesPF120-498.jpg

>So are you saying that you perceive the same benefits as 4.9 and smaller comb with this product?

I'm saying that the wax dipped PermaComb is 4.95mm and I have had good success and measurably shorter capping and post capping times on it. I would expect that 4.95mm drawn wax will have the same effect. I have not had it long enough to make any observations on the actual effectiveness of drawn PF120, but I have no reason to expect any different outcome.

>It would be interesting to know if large cell hives draw out the PF120 as well as your small cell hives are.

These are large cell package bees, not my regressed bees.

>I see that Mann Lake also has a PF-500 and a PF-520 Rite-cell Pro Frame. Does anyone know what the cell size is on these?

5.4mm

>Is it the same as the PF-100 and PF-120?

No.


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## Chrissy Shaw (Nov 21, 2006)

*Thank God*

I am NOT paying Michael's shipping bill...yeash 

Chrissy


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## flathead (Nov 1, 2006)

*PF100 after 24 days*

I hived two packages checkerboarded with Mannlake PF 100 and 4.9 wax.

We used the PF100 right out of the box.

They did a good job with the PF100 and less so with the foundation.

The PF100 is a good choice for us as first step to regression and plan to buy some more if there is any left.

http://zacharyfarmsllc.com/mannlake_pf_100_pl.htm


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## Chrissy Shaw (Nov 21, 2006)

*I suspect Mr Thomas understands markets*

The ad does read, made in USA, so i am sure they will pour some out for you and that you will not suffer at Michael's purchase. The sales staff seems to know that this is a great product and an aid to beekeeping overall. I really like Mann Lakes service, the only exception is their hat i bought broke in the back and that they did not work the Thrid of July last year (perhaps i shoould tune into these holiday things better ?). I really like the service from Mann Lake and from Western Bee.

Chrissy


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## peggjam (Mar 4, 2005)

I haven't had any problems with them drawing them out . Bought a bunch last year cause I was in a bind...they even lasted well through a bear attach .


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## Chrissy Shaw (Nov 21, 2006)

*Is the bear still "attached?"*



peggjam said:


> I haven't had any problems with them drawing them out . Bought a bunch last year cause I was in a bind...they even lasted well through a bear attach .


That would seem to me to be a problem in the extractor PJ. I don't think that is how they make those honey jars, but i could be wrong 

Chrissy


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## peggjam (Mar 4, 2005)

CSShaw said:


> That would seem to me to be a problem in the extractor PJ. I don't think that is how they make those honey jars, but i could be wrong
> 
> Chrissy


I wish he was when I saw the mess, it would've been one less bear . 

Sorry about the lousey spelling......it's always been one of my weak spots .


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## Chrissy Shaw (Nov 21, 2006)

*Bear eating brood and honey*

Since the bruin always tastes like his meals, i bet that woul be fine bar meat. Make sausage though, that stuff will pull natural teeth out as though polygrip (registered trademark USA) held them false kind.

Takes Greyhound seven or so days to get there, that suasage will be just leaving the packers about then. I like my bar real well done. 

Oh yeah, remove the frame first. Had to mention bees in this post.

Chrissy


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## Jesus_the_only_way (Mar 17, 2006)

So, will my bees that are now on Ritecell take to these PF120 frames or do they have to be gradually regressed? That sure is a good price for a frame!
Tom


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I put a lot of large cell packages on it this spring with good results. They build most of it perfectly with only the occasional drone cell where they wanted to cheat.


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## Chrissy Shaw (Nov 21, 2006)

*My memory and current use*

It seems to me that combs are drawn a bit slower these days and a bit more hit and miss, but the same degree of acceptance seems to be in the plastic frames (PF-100s) and commercial foundation (wired and Duragilt) in honey supers. The PF-100s match any other i have here and is the mainstay of what i use for packages and nucs. The bur comb lets me check mites, wave at them and have some meltable wax. Like MB, if i need to rotate it costs me much less with PF-100s as a standard frame and at least offers some degree of small cell protection. Unlike MB i do not use free-built combs. There are currently some three hundred out in the yard along with small amounts of wax, Pierco and Duragilt, dollar for dollar the PF-100 is as good as the rest and better in price.

The packages i installed drew it out as though they owned it as have the nucs and winter-overed nucs that began thier comb drawing on this foundation last season. So long as you aid the bees with foundation and place the frames inside that outside active honey storage frame at either side of the brood nest while nectar and pollen are available i believe you will have success as i have.

Chrissy Shaw


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## Jesus_the_only_way (Mar 17, 2006)

Thanks for the updates. I tried to order 180( that's a lot for me) of them but they are on back order. Guess I'll wait and try again next week. Once you get up to 180 they are only .99 cents each. I'll bet MB got a good break on the 2000 he ordered
Tom


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## sierrabees (Jul 7, 2006)

I have some colonies that draw out the PF 100 or PF 120 as fast as anything else. I also have some that only like to bridge it to the adjacent comb. What I do is switch it around, put it in the hives that like it, and give 4.9 foundation strips to the hive that don't like it. By the way, I am getting one year regression by simply taking all the comb away from my large cell hives and giving them either PF or small cell. My girls are adapting quite well although I don't expect any surplus this year since they are spending a lot of energy re-decorating their appartment.


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