# Sugar Bricks and Dysentery



## whiskers (Aug 28, 2011)

So many people report using that brick recipe without problem that statistics say look elsewhere.
Bill


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Not the sugar bricks. I have many times use Lauri's sugar bricks and the loose sugar on the
bottom board before. No issue with any bee diseases or dysentery issues. I say cannot be the
sugar bricks. Might be other bee diseases. Is there a way to check the bees out? Does nosema cause this issue?


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

lords
Did you use the cook or the no cook?
gww


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## RDY-B (May 20, 2007)

I dont know what laurls recipe is---this is what I know if you are using dry sugar or sugar block
of solids--the bees need to process that--it takes moister--(water) for them to process the sugar solids
--if temps are not conducive to flying then moisture is found in the hive--sometimes a feeder that
has caught rain water --or even from the bottom board itself--check it out it maybe a moisture
issue rather than what you are providing as a emergency feed sounds like bad water some where--------RDY-B


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

I've used both the cook and uncook version.
Both seems to be fine. It is something else going on.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

>Is the dysentery caused by the sugar bricks or do I have other issues? 

It depends on what you added to the sugar blocks. EOs are likely to cause higher mortality rate, extra protein, too much ACV, vitamins may cause extra cleansing flights. If the bee pop is dark brown (almost black) it is possiable it's nosmea send a sample of dead bees to the lab for free testing.

http://www.ars.usda.gov/Services/docs.htm?docid=7458

If the dead bees and pop are not excessive (post pictures) it may be they are brooding up for spring and consuming more pollen in order to raise brood.


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## rolftonbees (Jul 10, 2014)

Is it on the frames and comb or just on bottom of bottom board.

If only on bottom.board perhaps you have a moisture issue and this is a fungal or bacterial sludge. I would move them to a clean BB and check theslant of hive and verify some ventilation at top of hive for moistire to leave. If moisture cannot leave it will condensate and drip down


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## Kuro (Jun 18, 2015)

Like the OP, I see lots of bee poop around the entrances, on the landing boards, and on the roofs (but not on the bottom boards). One of my three colonies is quite cold resistant, flying around at <40F, and their hive surrounding is the dirtiest. I suspect the other two simply cannot take cleansing flight as often or bring bodies out when it is cold. Although I do not remember seeing this much poop last year (I always put sugar blocks in winter, made of sugar and water only), they did not have as much crystalized honey (from ivy) as this year. For now I put the blame on the ivy honey, but I may consider testing for nosema as FlowerPlanter suggested.


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## lords88 (May 18, 2015)

Thank you for all the tips, I will be sending some to the lab just to see what they have to say. To answer some of the questions:
-I used the non-cook method for the sugar blocks
-I do not have an internal feeder to collect water, and the bottom board is screened with a piece of foam insulation underneath and a mite board slid under it.
-Nothing was added to the sugar bricks except regular old sugar and apple cider vinegar
- I have not checked the bottom of the hive for any moisture build up, but it should be able to leak around the insulation and the hive is slightly tilted forward. 
-I have never had moisture issues inside my hives and its very dry here, in fact i have never seen any moisture on the underside of my inner covers. The covers have a 2.5" screened hole in the center and another screened hole on the back center big enough to set a wide mouth jar on for feeding. I then put a piece of foam insulation on top of that with a 2" hole in the center, and a gabled roof on top with a 1" hole in the front. 
-I have not lifted the inner cover since the sugar bricks were laid inside since it hasn't gotten much above 30F.
-I will collect some samples to send out, post pictures this weekend of the front of the hive and see if I can pull the mouse guard off and take a peek inside on the hive floor.


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## lords88 (May 18, 2015)

I checked the hive out today and took a sample of the bees. Most of the poop seems to be on the outside of the hive, but I did see some inside. Scooped about 4 cups of dead bees off the bottom board. Looks like they haven't hardly touched the sugar brick.


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## yotebuster1200 (Jul 28, 2013)

That is a lot of Poop....


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

So they are having a case of nosema, right?
If it is then I would give them a dose of antibiotic and follow the treatment schedule.
Comes Spring time just requeen them all. You need better bees!


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## yotebuster1200 (Jul 28, 2013)

beepro said:


> So they are having a case of nosema, right?
> If it is then I would give them a dose of antibiotic and follow the treatment schedule.
> Comes Spring time just requeen them all. You need better bees!


Why would you give bees that have a fungi an antibiotic?


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Let me make that correction.
Should be feeding them Fumagilin-B to control the nosema situation.


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## dennis crutchfield (Aug 5, 2016)

I use tea tree oil mixed with my syrup or sugar to prevent nosema. and it works. if you need the recipe. message me


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## fieldsofnaturalhoney (Feb 29, 2012)

lords88 said:


> Looks like they haven't hardly touched the sugar brick.


Guess you can rule this out as being the cause. That is a lot of brick!


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## lords88 (May 18, 2015)

UPDATE: I got my sample results back from the lab. No signs of nosema and 1% mite load. The hive has not shown any more signs of bee poop since I originally posted and cleaned the landing board. The hive seems happy now. Must have been a combination of being stuck inside so long due to low temps and possibly the type of honey they were consuming.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Surprising lab results. That load of poop would be well beyond what I would consider in the normal range.

In any case if your brick was made as you describe, would be something else, not the brick.


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## Riskybizz (Mar 12, 2010)

"So they are having a case of nosema, right?"...Wrong

Dysentery is not a symptom of nosema. In many cases high nosema spore counts show no signs of dysentery. Dysentery is a direct result of bee diet. Ingesting honeydew, fermented syrups, indigestible sugars in cola syrups, molasses and kitchen corn syrups can result in similar intestinal changes and lead to dysentery.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Tony Jadczak hints that they saw a decent uptick in nosema in bees fed dry sugar overwinter in this video, not sure of the exact time during the video, however. The whole thing is worth watching.
Not directly applicable to the OP, but thought it worth mentioning.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Stands to reason. They crawl all over the sugar with any sick bees contaminating it for weeks or months while the bees feed on it. I've never been a fan of either mountaincamp or sugar bricks.


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## lords88 (May 18, 2015)

I had bees all over my aspen trees collecting honey dew for a couple months. Very well could be the cause of the issue


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