# Apivar



## Jay T (May 3, 2010)

Any input on Apivar? Any thoughts good bad or indifferent. I just took the strips out of my hives, how long should I wait until I put on the honey supers. how long will the mites stay off?


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

You can put the honey boxes straight on. Amitraz, the active ingredient of Apivar, has a 1/2 life of only a few days in a hive. It is not permanent like say, fluvenate (Apistan).

How long will mites stay off? Depends how good a job you did of getting rid of them. I leave Apivar strips in for 10 weeks, which gives an excellent kill. It is slower acting than some of the other strip treatments.


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## Max F (May 12, 2013)

The parent compound Amitraz may have a short half-life but the degradate is 2,4-dimethylphenylforamide (DMF) is persistent in wax.

As long as the supers are not in during treatment then you don't need to worry. Just rotate brood wax out every 3-5 years.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Max F said:


> Just rotate brood wax out every 3-5 years.


Why?


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## Max F (May 12, 2013)

Prevent potential harm to the colony from the buildup with miticides and other pesticides. Also, help prevent develop pesticide resistance in mites.

http://entomology.unl.edu/faculty/ellispubs/Pesticides and bee toxicity.pdf

http://www.beeccdcap.uga.edu/documents/bmpcalagr.html
quote
Minimize toxin exposure 
•Honey bees have a limited capacity to metabolize toxins, including beekeeper-applied varroacides, and some toxins can accumulate in beeswax combs. 
•Be aware of crop pest control practices near your apiary; know the risks and have a plan for protecting colonies. 
•Varroacides can tie up bees’ detoxification capabilities and render them less able to deal with other varroacides and chemicals used on crops. 
•Avoid treating bees with varroacides when they are likely to be exposed to crop pest control chemicals. 
•Renew beeswax combs by replacing a few combs from each hive annually 
endquote

Most suggest 20% of frames being replaced (i.e, every 5 years per frame)


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

So would a little DMF warrant it?


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## Max F (May 12, 2013)

DMF, coumaphos, or fluvalinate yes.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

I have lots of old comb in our operation. Ive never used Amitraz, last used Coumaphous about 8 years ago and last used Fluvalinate about 10 years ago. I am not going to assert that no traces of these chemicals can be found anywhere in our hives any longer but last fall the state of South Dakota pulled pollen samples from brood combs in a number of our hives. No traces of any of these chemicals were detected in our samples. Statewide results revealed that 46% of these samples had positive readings for Fluvalinate, 24% for DMPF and 43% for Coumaphos (no neo-nics were detected either but then that's another story). 
There seems to be a conventional wisdom out there that old combs are forever contaminated and that you must cycle them out if you hope to have strong healthy hives. I am not so sure about that. We cull combs that are structurally unsound or those that contain excessive amounts of drone comb and that is about it. I have been pretty pleased with the overall quality of our bees in recent years.


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## Max F (May 12, 2013)

Well, yeah, if you don't use those compounds then you don't need to worry. No they don't last in wax forever. We are not talking about elements or radioactive decay, lol! But if you do use them every year, you will have residues in your hives as your statewide results prove.

I guess the question would be do the residues build up over successive years of use. In that case, replacing wax would be a good idea. I don't know if there is data on that or not.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Well the question to me, was does a little DMF actually matter? Any numbers or research?

IE, what is the basis for saying once Apivar has been used the combs should be cycled out after 3 - 4 years? I have found no research to back this claim, maybe you have?

Not talking about fluvenate, etc, just the residue of Amitraz.


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## Max F (May 12, 2013)

I don't have any references concerning harm from DMF or other amitraz degradates to colonies. Even the parent is rather non-toxic to bees at least at an acute level. The issue would be chronic exposures and sublethal effects. Also, with any persistent compounds present, the possibility of synergistic effects with other pesticides. There's probably not any data on any this, unfortunately. 

What we do know is that the "hard" miticides (including amitraz - mainly DMPF and DMA) are commonly detected in wax and at relatively high (ppm) concentrations. Mullin et al. 2010. http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0009754

Would I worry about amitraz use more than the other "hard" miticides. Probably not. Would i suggest rotating out old comb. Yes. Every 5 years may be a WAG though.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Fair enough.


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## Jay T (May 3, 2010)

I took out the Apivar strip off and waited 9 days before I installed the honey supers not quite what the what the manufacture suggested. My thought is it would take a few days for the bees to start bringing in nectar or making wax.

Thoughts


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Jay T said:


> My thought is it would take a few days for the bees to start bringing in nectar or making wax.Thoughts


It isn't only the new wax that is of concern. The existing wax in the hive sinks many of the toxic compounds in a bee colony. It is one of the reasons that brood comb continues to be useful for brood over many cycles. Even developing brood produce toxic secretions. Those are absorbed by the wax as well...along with many pesticides and their degradates...allowing the following generations of bees to develop in those same cells without toxic consequences...until the wax approaches its holding capacity...then it becomes a source for those same toxic compounds.


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