# My first Top Bar hive in North Pole Alaska! could use some advice.



## Duncan151 (Aug 3, 2013)

I do not know enough to answer all your questions, but I started two hives last year. One started on the left side, and one started on the right side. they had it all straightened out a month later. You are always going to get a few dead bees, they do not live very long to begin with. Not sure about the rest. As far as the feed, if it is too cold, I think less than 50 degree syrup temp, they will not take it.


----------



## chris_nelson123 (Feb 26, 2014)

Here is a link to my neighbor installing the bees. I was out of town and couldnt do it myself .

https://youtu.be/I8z0A0CeS2c


----------



## Colleen O. (Jun 5, 2012)

I have seen my bees fly as cold as 42°F but generally they only fly at 48°F or above and sunny. I've read similar to Duncan about the syrup temps, that they won't take it at below 50°F. Keep in mind it takes the syrup longer to warm up than the air, so if you could do something to warm it a bit it might help. I also find they really like it when I put a tablespoon of cider vinegar in a batch of syrup.


----------



## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

I have found that bees normally start on the side of a box, not the center. The only times I have seen them start in the center is if the queen cage was hung between combs in the center, with frames of foundation in the hive, not foundationless frames or top bars. I think starting at the side gives them one side of solid board for security, to help hold in the temps they want and give them one side they don't have to defend.

They take syrup much better when it is placed right over the top of the cluster. The pics look like they would have to travel to get to your feed. They stay clustered up until temps get towards 50, so they won't be feeding much yet. Also. they need warmer temps to take syrup and to draw comb. 

You should see more and better activity after your temps get up higher.


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Flying temps are a combination of temperature, wind and sun. The calmer and sunnier it is the colder temp they will fly in. In general terms I always figure 50 F is flying weather, but I've seen the flying in much colder weather when it was sunny and calm. Calm is a very rare thing here...

>Queen was placed on the bottom of the hive with a small amount of marshmellow covering the hole.

I never leave the queen in a cage on the bottom if the weather is cold, but your heater may mitigate that risk. They often leave her to cluster when it's cold. Make sure you don't have it too hot... ideal for a colony with no comb and no stores is probably about 50 so they can take the syrup.

>The days since the install it has been getting up to 50 outside and down in the 20's at night. They have been flying outside during the day but not going far. The average temp in the morning with the thermometer next to the feeder inside the hive has been 55 deg and warming up throughout the day.

The issue is what temperature the syrup is. The syrup often doesn't get warmed up enough during the day if it's 20 at night and 55 in the day. They syrup has to get up to 50 F

> The forcast for the next 10 days is mostly sunny highs aroung 55 and lows around 30. There is still snow on the ground but will be melted soon due to the warm temps.

You will probably need to keep the heater going, not to keep them warm, but to keep the syrup warm.

> They have thrown out about 30-40 dead bees. Is normal numbers?

Low, but I wouldn't complain...


----------



## chris_nelson123 (Feb 26, 2014)

Thanks for the feedback everyone. What im gathering is it is normal for the bees to cluster on one side. Also its more important to keep the syrup warm than it is to keep the bees warm.

Mike, why dont you want it to warm in the hive as far as the bees are concerned?


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

The bees can survive at -40 F if they have their stomach full of honey. The warmer it is the more active they are. Ideal temperature for long lived bees is about 40 F, but they do fine at 20 F as well. But only if they have food and they can't take syrup unless the syrup is 50 F or more. There is nothing wrong with keeping the bees warm at this point in time (it is spring, after all) but it is simply not the point. The syrup is what matters so they have fuel to keep themselves warm.


----------



## chris_nelson123 (Feb 26, 2014)

Makes sense thanks.


----------



## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

I've had a heating pad on the two jars of syrup behind my follower board to keep the syrup warm. If I had to guess it's about 60 degrees or so most of the time and probably warmer during the day. It seems to have worked as the package hasn't had a very noticable difference in size. We've had a few nights in the 20s and most in the lower 30s since installed 4/5.


----------



## chris_nelson123 (Feb 26, 2014)

Colleen, 
How much syrup do you put a tablespoon of cider vinegar in to?


----------



## warmbees (Mar 4, 2014)

Hey Chris, I finally found your thread with pics. Nice job. I was going to say that it looked like the feeder was a bit away from the cluster. When they get cold they can't move freely since they must cluster for warmth. It looked like the space was fairly large for their start. I would expect that you should move the slider up to make their space smaller in the beginning, to make it a smaller space to have to heat. I think somebody needs to come up with a bottle feeder design for a top bar hive, that allows the bottle to be in the space with the bees, so that it would be kept warm. Or perhaps a design that at least the syrup came into the heated chamber via a tube from the bottle, so that a portion of the syrup could be warmed by the bees. In either case, having the feed only an inch away from the clustering bees, would be ideal.


----------



## warmbees (Mar 4, 2014)

chris_nelson123 said:


> Here is a link to my neighbor installing the bees. I was out of town and couldnt do it myself .
> 
> https://youtu.be/I8z0A0CeS2c


This video was marked private and would not show for me.


----------



## chris_nelson123 (Feb 26, 2014)

You should be able to view the video now.


----------



## warmbees (Mar 4, 2014)

Video now works. Thanks. Nice job. So neighbor is beekeeper? Is he the one with langstroths? Otherwise pretty brave. Looked like he knew what he was doing.


----------



## tycobb48 (Jan 10, 2008)

warmbees said:


> This video was marked private and would not show for me.


That is the most thorough unpacking of bees I've seen. lol, guess I'm lazy, I only give them one shake then let the rest march in.

Are you going to keep the hive under shelter (where it is) because of your location?


----------



## chris_nelson123 (Feb 26, 2014)

warmbees said:


> Video now works. Thanks. Nice job. So neighbor is beekeeper? Is he the one with langstroths? Otherwise pretty brave. Looked like he knew what he was doing.


Yes this is the neighbor with the three langstroth hives. He is very good with helping me out. He has no experience with top bar hives so he is learning right along with me.


----------



## chris_nelson123 (Feb 26, 2014)

tycobb48 said:


> That is the most thorough unpacking of bees I've seen. lol, guess I'm lazy, I only give them one shake then let the rest march in.
> 
> 
> Are you going to keep the hive under shelter (where it is) because of your location?


Yes it was a pretty thorough unpacking probably because the temperature at the time was in the low forties and it would have been two cold for the bees still inside the package to fly into the hive.

I just brought the beehive out side where they will stay for the summer since the temperatures have been getting to the high fifties to low sixties. The reason I had them inside initially was because the temps were still a little too cold and there was still two feet of snow on the ground. Also temperatures in interior alaska are very unpredictable at this time of year. Last year we had snow thru the whole month of april with highs only in the thirties. We even had a snow storm in the middle of may.


----------

