# Saving the extra queen cells



## tech.35058 (Jul 29, 2013)

I have read of others successfully doing it this way, I think that including enough brood cells has something to do with success. I tried this my first year. The result was that hive beetles loved the area protected from the bees, and made a real mess.
I think the best way is to move the cells to a queenless group of bees in a mating nuc.
I wish your friend, good luck with their bees. ... CE


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

It certainly is possible. Are these grafted queen cells that he is able to slip the cages over? I will cut out the ripe, ready to hatch queen cells from my foundationless topbar hives and slip them into roller cages. I have found that the small hive beetles do love them, so I always add a few workers into the cage as well. As long as the queen cell is within a day or two of hatching, it works rather well. If you disturb them before that, they are likely not to hatch.


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## Sr. Tanya (Feb 9, 2007)

These aren't grafted queen cells. They are ones he finds mostly after he's made a nuc. He's using the queen cages that are sent through the mail and is trying to attach a 2nd cage below the first that is over the queen cell. The 2nd one is directly below the first and the holes line up. He then turns the 2nd one on it's side where the queen is suppose to go after it hatches. The reason for the turned one is so the bees can feed her through the mesh.


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## Sr. Tanya (Feb 9, 2007)

So far we have not been bothered by hive beetles. I know they are in PA but they just haven't shown up-- hope they never do!!


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

Why the short term solution? Queens need to grow and harden and get mated. A resource frugal way of accomplishing that is a queen castle with a double screened bottom and four compartments thaI set on top of a strong hive to heat the castle. Pull the frame with cell and bees and a frame of bees wih feed and pollen for each compartment. Stay out of the hive below except to quickly super for three weeks and see what you have. Wait four and you will have little mini swarms.


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## Sr. Tanya (Feb 9, 2007)

He said he wanted to have some queens ready when needed. Not quite sure how he plans on "keeping" them. I think he's just experimenting to see if this will work. I don't believe he plans on making more nuc's from them but will have some ready for other beeks in the area.

*Vance G.*- Thanks for the information.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

The best reason to learn to raise queens is so you don't feel pressure to do something counterproductive when you come across one and feel compelled to use it in some way.


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## Sr. Tanya (Feb 9, 2007)

deknow- He does like to experiment and since he is retired, has more time to do this. He's not the compelled type. I just listen to his ideas and was wondering if this one had some history from others.


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

If you have enough hives, you could dedicate one as a queen bank. 

I am going to try this next time around - a Cloake Board goes over the brood box with Mama queen below the QE, the banked queens go under 4-1/8" x 7" Laidlaw cages, 8 of them to a frame. Rotate fresh capped brood frames every 7 days.

I'd only bank mated queens. It allows you quick access to ready-to-introduce queens for remote yards, and increases your capacity a small amount. This queen bank hive should help keep production hives cranking through the peak of the nectar flow, should they encounter any need for a fresh egg-layer.

The virgin queens gotta' go in the mating nuc's.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

When folks talk about baking queens, they are generally talking about mated queens (that need to have been in a colony in order to mate), and they bank better when they have been laying a while. Banking virgins isn't very useful.


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## Insektenjack (Jan 11, 2016)

If you need them for different colonies, try this method from a Dutch beekeeper. 

1) Cut around the queen cell, when capped, in a triangular shape, leaving about 3 to 5 cells as buffer. 
2) Cut the same shape out of a frame from the colony where you would like to introduce the the queen cell.
3) Switch the pieces and attache them by pressing the endges onto each other with your thumb. 

Careful: Cut the comb with the queen cell in a lying/angled position. Then the larva has no chance of falling out of the jelly and into the top of the capped cell. 

Here the link for some pics:

http://www.bijenhouden.nl/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=30892&hilit=larven


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

So how do you tell if the capped cell is in its fragile stage where it shouldn't be touched at all?


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## Sr. Tanya (Feb 9, 2007)

*Insektenjack,

*Thanks for the information. I tried your link but didn't see any pics.

Tanya


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## Insektenjack (Jan 11, 2016)

Fixed the link. Sorry for that.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

deknow said:


> So how do you tell if the capped cell is in its fragile stage where it shouldn't be touched at all?


I look for it to be darkened and still capped. it also looks like they remove any wax coating on the cap of the cell jsut before the queen emerges. Mainly it is a get used to seeing the cells at the right stage and you will recognize them. Still I remove them during the delecate stage all the time and they do fine with careful handling


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## Insektenjack (Jan 11, 2016)

deknow said:


> So how do you tell if the capped cell is in its fragile stage where it shouldn't be touched at all?


You can as well use non-capped, then your sure that those can be worked with. 
Otherwise, I do not know enough to help you there. 
Might be that the larva stadium is acceptable and just before they emerge, as well. Pupa may be sensitive.


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

As for banking virgins, I'm sure he is only doing it for a very short time until they have new homes. A queen doesn't go out to mate right away. her exoskeleton needs time to firm up. A queen has up to 21 days from emerging before she will turn into a drone layer. So 5-7 days of being caged isn't a deal breaker.

As for when is a queen cell too fragile to handle, if they are open, I don't handle them. I might move the entire bar over to a queenless hive, but never just her cell. Even once they are initially capped, at 8 days after being laid as an egg, they are still very fragile. I try not to handle them until they are at Day 14 (from an egg). I have a video on my bees FB page of me cutting out some queen cells last Wed. I hesitate to post the link because I took so much flak for "rough handling" and "wearing thick gloves". I can report that 2 of those queens emerged last night, and in fine health.


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## Sr. Tanya (Feb 9, 2007)

*Insektenjack,*

I checked your photos. Thank you very much.

*Ruthiesbees,*
I don't mind looking at your video. Did you have in on your facebook?


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

Ruth, the cells not yet capped are very robust....JSL has had luck shipping 48 hour cells without attendants.

About day 10 to 12 (if counting from when egg was laid...or 6 to 8 days post graft or post cells bing started) the cells can be extremely fragile, and it is very easy to injure a wing or leg in development. Avoiding even bumping the hive is standard practice.


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