# Mann Lake vented suit



## Charlie B

Can't really tell from the photo's. You could call and ask them. I've found Mann Lake to be very honest. It's only a matter of time before someone copies Ultrabreeze anyway.


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## RiodeLobo

Looks like a copy.


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## Grant

Can't tell either, but it sure looks the same. I own an Ultrabreeze and LOVE it. Mann Lake suits are a whole lot cheaper. If I were buying a new suit this year, it would be one of the "breeze" suits.

Grant
Jackson, MO


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## beehonest

It looks exactly like my breathable from pigeon mountain trading company, I think I will call them to see if thats where they are getting them, when I feel a little better, got the flu now. The one I have from PMTC is top notch and Mann lake sells top top stuff I would go for it if I didn't already have one. Finaly lower priced breathables!


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## Charlie B

Someone please buy one and report back!


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## beehonest

Charlie B, why don't you buy one and try it? I am sure you could return it if you don't like it. Go to pigeon mountain trading company and look at thiers, I am almost positive it is the same suit. And they garanty satisfaction or 100% refund. I bought one of thiers for$150 and love it, no one on here trusted them, I told everyone to try it. Finally one guy did and he loves his also and posted about it.US fabrics owns P.M.T.C. that is why the price is cheaper than ultrabreeze or golden bee. You have to look at the top left corner where the extractors are listed they are listed as breathables. They have regular suits listed down below it throws most people off. Pigeon mountain was good to deal with and Mann Lake can't be beat for customer service.


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## Charlie B

I already have an Ultrabreeze jacket but I may need another suit for my stepson. I don't want to pay another $165 so I'm anxious to see if this one from Mann Lake is good. I'll call them.


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## Rick 1456

Was thinking about getting one myself. Looked at Mann Lakes and Pigeon Mtn. Mann Lakes looks like it is a loose knit fabric sandwiched between mesh netting. PM looks like three layers of mesh and looks more "breezy to me. The three layers is what keeps the stings away from your skin. Wouldn't say it was sting proof, but appears it will allow more air to get to you. I bought the PM jacket. Was a couple more dollars than ML only because Mann Lake was shipping for free. ML was out of stock anyway


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## Charlie B

Ok, ok I broke down and bought the Mann Lake vented jacket. I needed and extra one for relatives and friends. The rep at ML couldn't tell me what vendor they're getting them from but she didn't think is was Ultra Breeze. She offered to put me on hold and find out but I declined to wait. 

It's interesting that she told me they haven't even received their first batch to sell yet because the vendor was still filling their order and they should be in today to sell. She said I should get mine in 7 days so I'll report back.


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## Rick 1456

Been a week and just got notification of shipment. Wonder if it is the same suit, same supplier.??


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## Charlie B

Let me know when you get yours in.


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## Rick 1456

okie dokie


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## wildbranch2007

if you look in the catalog, things made in usa say made in usa, the vented suit doesn't say made in usa. who ever copied it, even put in metal zippers like the original.


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## Intheswamp

beehonest said:


> It looks exactly like my breathable from pigeon mountain trading company<snip>


 bh, when wearing your PM suit and you raise your arms above your head in a reaching motion do have plenty of room? Or, do the sleeves "pull down" with a restrictiveness/tightness appearing under the armpits, thus exposing more of your wrists/forearm?

Ed


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## Rick 1456

Charlie B,
Got mine today. Made in India. Looks like a quality garment though. It appears IMO, to be the same as Mann Lake. Two layers of mesh, with a synthetic 1/8 inch mesh sandwiched. Got the fence hood. Zippers are brass and are tucked in nice for a good seal at the neck. Put some beeswax on the zippers. Work better now. Plan on using it this afternoon. Will check the reach and sleeve, arm pit thing


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## Mbeck

I can't wait to hear the review. My youngest son is very interested in beekeeping so I need to get him a suit. Let me know how it works loading and unloading hives by hand! Hehehe!


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## Rick 1456

Here goes,
I feel like I got my monies worth. The level of protection and the air flow through the suit was very good. Today here was 70 with 15 to 20 mph gusts. I was very comfortable. To predict the summer, I think it will still be hot,,,duh, and unless a breeze is blowing, the suit will only mildly show you comfort. But, weigh that against the protection level, and all is right with the world. Before, I wore veil and hat with gloved sleeves to the elbows and a short sleeved shirt. The bees seemed to find the flesh where the short sleeves met the meat. I took stings to the stomach as it protrudes a little to non craft beer I take stings to the thighs and other areas below the waist when the cloth is tight against the body. The leather gloves keep the sting pheromone around I thinks so the need to be washed as needed.
What does this jacket do for me. It is cooler. I was in a T shirt. The protection level is excellent. I won't say impenetrable. I don't know. Close to it. It allows me to wear nitrile gloves which I can dispose of and the sting pheromone issue is gone. I really believe it makes a difference in the reaction of the bees. The wrist part of the jacket has an elastic tab that you put your thumb in. Pretty much keeps the wrist from being exposed. Did me anyway. I didn't do any overhead reaching but to defeat that I would think you would have to get a suit so over sized it would not be comfortable to work with. The zippers are stiff. I put bees wax on them and it is improved. They look quality. I think they will be better as they break in. I had to be conscious of the fence style veil. It wanted to ride on my nose. Disaster waiting to happen. Minor problem solved wearing a ball cap.
Thumbs up from me.


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## cbinstrasburg

Thanks


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## Charlie B

Ok, thanks Rick. I'll let you know about the ML vented jacket as soon as I get it. ML called me today and told me it will be in next Wednesday.


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## cbinstrasburg

Rick
You say the jacket is made in India...the PM web site IMO makes out that the product is made local as in GA...advertisement I'd say... What you think
Carl


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## Rick 1456

From the ad:

we weave the fabric, extrude our own synthetic fabrics, do our own sewing, and market our product directly to you -- we can guarantee the quality of the product that you receive. And, we can set a price that you, our customer, will be sure to love. You can certainly pay more for ventilated bee wear somewhere else, but we do not believe that you can buy a better quality ventilated bee suit. 
I tried to upload a pic of the tag inside the collar. No luck. Anyway, MADE IN INDIA Actually since it was brought up, I do remember thinking it was made in America from the ad. I do buy American when I have the option. I could see where someone might get upset over this. Perhaps PM could offer an explanation. Isn't that where Dolly Parton lives? I think I'll give her a shout bout this


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## tsk

There's another thread on this somewhere (I think a search for Pigeon Mountain will turn it up). They mentioned they own the fabric companies so they produce the fabric and sew it, just not in the US.

Edit: Here's the thread and a post with the exchange from Pigeon Mountain and a beesourcer: http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...igeon-Mountain-Ventilated&p=713983#post713983


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## Rick 1456

tsk,
Thank you for posting that link. The product is as they described and I am satisfied with it. No beef there. I guess when you own a company overseas, the non American employees are consider "weeuns" . I know some tractors are "Made in America" but assembled in England I think and so advertised. Anyway. Perhaps a label stating such would go a long way. "Products manufactured is America, Assemble in India". How much more could the label cost?


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## Intheswamp

Rick 1456 said:


> <snip> Plan on using it this afternoon. Will check the reach and sleeve, arm pit thing


Don't forget to check the reach and sleeve thing... 

Thanks!
Ed


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## Charlie B

Ed,

According to the Mann Lake size chart a Medium would have fit me but I ordered an XL just for that reason. We'll see how it fits when I get it. I don't care if it's a little too large. I want it to hang down a bit.


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## Intheswamp

I hear ya Charlie. Recently at the Bee Symposium in Auburn, AL I tried on an imported suit that one of the vendors had there. I tried an XL. Even though it was a bit "bulky" around me (I'm 5'-11' and around 175 pounds) reaching above my head resulted in the sleeve pulling back and exposing wrist and some forearm. Even the guy helping me with the suit said if I got one a size bigger (XXL) it would simply be too big for me in other areas. If I get a suit it will be because I will be doing cut-outs and may find the need for reaching overhead. I haven't started pulling supers of honey, yet, though, so I may find other reasons to get one. 

Ed


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## MDS

I ordered a Mann Lake vented jacket which was the same size as the regular jackets I wear. Is on back-order but will let you know how it fits when I get it.


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## Intheswamp

Just me personally, but I'd order it one size bigger. 

Ed


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## Keth Comollo

I have a Pigeon Mountain Full Suit and love it.


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## cbinstrasburg

Keth Comollo said:


> I have a Pigeon Mountain Full Suit and love it.


how does the size fit to you


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## Keth Comollo

I am 6'2" and skinny. The large fits me great. If I had a few more pounds on me I would go a size up.





cbinstrasburg said:


> how does the size fit to you


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## LeonardS

Did anyone receive a Mann Lake Vented Suit or Jacket yet? I need to get a suit ordered soon, so I would like to hear about the quality. I received an email from Mann Lake today and they said the suits are in-stock.


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## Charlie B

Yes, got my jacket in Wednesday and tried it on. Very heavy duty and stiff. It looks to be impossible to get stung with this thing unless the bee has a 4" stinger. The veil is stiff and stands alone. Although the inside label says it's made in India, it looks to be very well sewn with quality materials.

The jacket is cut big. I ordered an XL when I probably should have gotten a large. I'm 5'10" 185. When I reach straight up with both hands the sleeves come up my arm about 2 inches so you want to make sure you have gloves that make up for that when doing overhead cutouts. 

My only concern is the zipper system on the veil is a little weird. I had to look in the mirror to zip it shut. One part of the zipper overlaps the other and you have to make sure the bottom zipper is tucked in all the way before you zip over it. There is a Velcro connection underneath the zipper system that will stop bees from getting in your veil if you don't get the zipper zipped all the way. I've practiced a few times with it and finally got it. The brass zippers look pretty industrial and I think they would last a long time. 

The one top and two side pockets are double stitched with Velcro tabs in the center so your hive tool or bee brush wouldn't fall out. I wouldn't get to close to your smoker with this on because it would melt the rubber panel sandwiched in between the mesh.

The washing directions are: 
Hand wash cold with similar color.
Do not bleach.
Do not wring or twist.
Low iron.

Anyway, I haven't done hive inspections yet because it's been raining here steady. As soon as it clears up, I'll report back. That will be the true test. That being said, overall I would say it's a pretty good jacket comparable to the UB and well worth the money.


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## cbinstrasburg

So guys it sounds like ML and PM are carrying the same product but not the same as Ultrabreeze... Charley didn't you say you had a Ultrabreeze...is it the same...I have also been waiting to order one from ML...I am 6'1" 260 lb by the way the sizes run what size would you suggest...thanks

Carl


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## MDS

Wore my Manlake jacket today. No stings. No breeze but stayed cooler than I thought I would. Fits well. I ordered the same size as the jackets in my closet that I normally wear.


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## valleyman

OK! Time to fess up!!
After the discussion we had on buying American made, as I have stated in the past if things are sensible and anywhere near affordable I will buy American made.
After seeing beehonests approval and other of the Pigeon Mountain suit, and since it was half price to the American made Ultra breeze I ordred one (jacket). I have used it once already and while it is heavy it is open weave (weight) of 3 layers of material, it will do the job. However the jacket from Kelley Co. was never a problem with stings it is heavy woven cotton and NO air gets thru. I do not regret buying the PM jacket. It is quality made with brass zippers. I am 6' and 180#s and have long arms (35-36 sleeves) and I would say to those of you that are worried about the sleeves riding up, don't reach that high, it is what all of my jackets and long sleeves do. I would buy it again. Great service.

How ever my conscience still bothers me some!! Actually it was a Christmas present and I gave my wife the option of buying either the Ultra breeze or the PM, knowing which one she would buy. (she's conservative), so I'm as guilty as she is for buying the foreign made jacket. But I'm not a rich person so I did the common sense thing.


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## Rick 1456

I have the PM and really like it. I did the "reach" things and the wrists rode up a little but the rubber gloves I wear covered the exposure. I'm 6'0" 216 with long arms. I got XL which is loose but I like the room. There was thread where PM stated the materials are made in USA but assembled in India. I guess I only have to feel half bad


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## Fuzzy

"The washing directions are: 
Hand wash cold with similar color.
Do not bleach.
Do not wring or twist.
Low iron."

Charlie, Do not iron. Instead, lay the suit out flat to dry. I use some outside clotheslines and stretch over the tops. 

And quit *****in about the rain. I've had a bag of sugar standing outside for a week now and it is still dry and pours right out. We haven't gotten a drop of rain down here !


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## Charlie B

Fuzzy,

If you tell me you've been catching swarms when my traps are starting to float on my roof top I'll really start crying.


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## Charlie B

cbinstrasburg said:


> Charley didn't you say you had a Ultrabreeze...is it the same..Carl


I honestly can't tell the difference except the veil zipper system on the UB is easier to zip up and the UB seems to be a little lighter weight but I've worn it in and washed it several times. Both have the same material design. I'm sorry to have to say this but if you want to save $60 plus shipping, get the ML. This is just my opinion though.


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## cbinstrasburg

Charlie B said:


> I honestly can't tell the difference except the veil zipper system on the UB is easier to zip up and the UB seems to be a little lighter weight but I've worn it in and washed it several times. Both have the same material design. I'm sorry to have to say this but if you want to save $60 plus shipping, get the ML. This is just my opinion though.


thanks Charley


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## valleyman

If you are going to buy foreign made and want to save money, check the www.pigeonmountaintrading.com jacket $95.00 and the full suit $145.00, and youget a choice of hoods/veils. I don't know how much the Mann Lake is. I never buy from them their prices is too high compared with what I can buy from locally and not pay shipping.

New zippers are many times stiff, as is my P.M. jacket zippers. They will loosen up with use. They are quality brass zippers.


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## Fuzzy

"If you tell me you've been catching swarms when my traps are starting to float on my roof top I'll really start crying."

Charlie, Honestly, Yesterday about 6pm I had to help someone gather up a swarm that must have been 6-7 lbs. It did fit nicely into 2 mediums. Because of it being in an awkward position, I built a flexible slide out of landscaping plastic. Scooped them off the rail onto the slide and down and out a few feet into the hive. 

So, don't cry in your beer -- Fuzzy


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## Charlie B




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## Mbeck

How do these suits and this type of material clean up?

How about the ultra breeze?

Is it easy to wash the stains out?


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## Michael Bush

>Is it easy to wash the stains out? 

I don't know of any material that propolis stains wash out easily from.


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## HONEYDEW

Mbeck said:


> How do these suits and this type of material clean up?
> 
> Is it easy to wash the stains out?


 Why would you want a clean bee suit, it's sort of a badge of honor...


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## daugenet

can anyone comment on any weight difference between the mesh suit vs a regular? a local person here was saying that the mesh one was heavier than a regular one and not to get it.


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## Mbeck

Sorry I meant how does it clean up compared to traditional material.

What image do you think a dirty unkept jacket portrays and who do you think you would see
It?


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## BeeTax

I got my PM vented jacket last week and it is definitely heavier than a normal jacket but it looks like it will provide a good air flow. Haven't had a chance to try it yet so I can't say for sure what the pitfalls or advantages are.


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## Charlie B

The ML jacket is almost identical to the UB. I got the XL which is a little to big for me. I'm 5' 10" 185 so an XL I think would be perfect for you guys. Great product, heavy duty and a good buy!


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## Rick 1456

I have the PM. I like it! Zippers were stiff buy waxed them and they are fine. I got the XL. I'm 6'0 and 215. Plenty of room for me.


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## cbinstrasburg

adamant said:


> carl..i am the about the same size as u.. what did u come up with?


funny you post this...was going to order this Friday...thinking about XL


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## Adrian Quiney WI

In answer to how does an Ultrabreeze clean up: Easily - I just follow the directions on the label, and then dry it flat. That was a good tip about putting beeswax on the zipper. I'm going to try that, the zipper is a nice large size - but very stiff. I was starting to worry about the zipper busting off the seam.


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## cbinstrasburg

adamant said:


> the girl at ml said i was a 2xl. :+) i was going to get the 3xl..


did ML say 2X instock?


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## LeonardS

I ordered the Mann Lake vented suit in XL. I am 6' 1" and weigh 210. It is a little big around, but I think a Large would have been too small.


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## Mbeck

Adrian Quiney WI said:


> In answer to how does an Ultrabreeze clean up: Easily - I just follow the directions on the label, and then dry it flat. That was a good tip about putting beeswax on the zipper. I'm going to try that, the zipper is a nice large size - but very stiff. I was starting to worry about the zipper busting off the seam.


Thanks, I might have to get one of these high tech suits, it's getting hot here and stuff gets sweaty and stinky fast. I like stuff that cleans up easier.


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## dadandsonsbees

For what it is worth, I made a comment in another thread about the ML vented jacket,,,,,I love it. It is cooler and even though it is heavier than a regular cotton jacket and the zippers are a little stiff at first, to me it is a great jacket. with the price being just over 100.00 that meant no shipping charges so it was cheaper for me than the other suppliers of vented jackets.


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## Charlie B

dadandsonsbees said:


> For what it is worth, I made a comment in another thread about the ML vented jacket,,,,,I love it.


I second that. Wore it all day today and it felt like I was topless. (Sorry, no pics). Great ventilation and a good value for $100 bucks.


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## MrHappy

Charlie, a few days ago it was cool. I'd like to know how it does today all day in it. It's supposed to get to 90 today. I was in my full suit though a few days ago and was sweating all over so yeah, maybe I'll get one.


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## Charlie B

Mr. Happy,

I'll be handling swarm calls all day today so thank God I bought it. I did splits yesterday and it worked great. I'll let you know how it goes.


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## odfrank

daugenet said:


> can anyone comment on any weight difference between the mesh suit vs a regular? a local person here was saying that the mesh one was heavier than a regular one and not to get it.


I have the UB jacket and it is definitely heavy. When it is HOT it is usually not breezy. I have to try one of my old nylon jackets and do a comparison. I do not find visibility through the UB veil very good, lots of sun reflection on the mesh. I do like theneck zipper velco and wrist elastic, the UB jacket does have good closures to keep bees out, but the begining of the zipper is balky.


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## Michael Bush

>When it is HOT it is usually not breezy.

There are advantages to living where the wind never stops blowing...


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## blist

seems mannlake doesn't have stock, they are about $20 more ($165 vs $145) than the pigeonmountain ventilated suits...are those two the same?

mannlake also doesn't show the veil type (unless I missed it)...I prefer the round hat type veils over the "fencing" type listed on pigeonmountain site


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## ribbit

blist said:


> seems mannlake doesn't have stock, they are about $20 more ($165 vs $145) than the pigeonmountain ventilated suits...are those two the same?
> 
> mannlake also doesn't show the veil type (unless I missed it)...I prefer the round hat type veils over the "fencing" type listed on pigeonmountain site


Pigeon Mtn has the round hood as an option. No extra charge.


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## blist

ribbit said:


> Pigeon Mtn has the round hood as an option. No extra charge.


yeah, I saw that...just wondering if the the mann lake and pigeon mt. suits are identical


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## Charlie B

Did swarm calls last week where it was around 80 degrees in S. San Jose. The ML jacket was definitely nice just like the UB. Very cool and comfortable. :thumbsup:


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## cerezha

Hi,I am Sergey. New on this forum.
I have PM full vented suit with round veil. It is heavier than cotton but it does breeze! I am in California and wear minimal clothes underneath - it is 5x cooler than cotton one. Also,it seems to me it is 100% bee-sting proof. Zipper is bronze (brass?),works very well without waxing. Veil zipper part is a little bit unusual, but works fine as soon as you get familiar with it. This is pro. 

Couple things, which I do not like or feel it may be better:
- the bottom part of the pants does not have a zipper, so one needs to put suit first and than shoes. It also has no elastic band to minimize the gap between pants and shoes.
- the end of the sleeves is very rough - it erodes my not very fine skin on wrists. 
- the elastic band to keep sleeves put broke next day.
- leather gloves (separate from the suit) are very comfortable, but fabric mesh part broke after a few uses - bee-size holes in the mesh...

Few more things:
- PM is very nice. I ordered suit, which apparently was 3x bigger than me. PM agreed to exchange it without any problem. New suit was on back-order, so I need to wait for 3 months... but, they even did not charge me extra shipping...very nice.
- keep in mind that this is "plastic" fabric, it did not shrink and quite rough (eroded my skin at wrists). Do not repeat my mistake- order your exact size or one size up if you really tall. I am 6' and XL was gigantic on me. Thing is that it should not be too baggy - fabric is literally 100%-proof against stings.
- Except the wrists, the suit is very comfortable.
- I really like round veil- you could move your head and there is some breeze also!
- it is my understanding that this bee-suit is lighter than real Ultrabreeze (read somewhere on the Internet).
- It is made in India.
- The "hat", which supports round veil made from thin cotton and need some sort of reinforcement - bees could very easily sting through. I am using a "secondary" hat to keep distance between veil-hat and my head - works fine, no problem.

Good luck with choosing the suit.


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## Risky Beesness

Michael Bush said:


> >When it is HOT it is usually not breezy.
> 
> There are advantages to living where the wind never stops blowing...


There are also advantages with the mesh fabric. It doesn't compress or cling to your skin when you soak yourself with water. I did this a lot last year in our Texas heat wave, litterally from head to toe, and it was like wearing an airconditioned suit. A cotton suit would cling to your skin if you tried this.


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## Charlie B

Good idea Risky!

I'll have to make sure to remember which spray bottle is syrup and which is just water.


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## cbinstrasburg

adamant said:


> out of stock 3 weeks out..


adamant did you ever get your vented suit


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## Charlie B

Wore my ML jacket all day yesterday in the heat. Nice! What a difference when you can actually feel a breeze even if it's only slight, it makes all the difference.


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## Charlie B

I'm 5'10" 180. I ordered an XL and it's a little to large for just beekeeping. But, if you do cut-outs and have to reach straight up above your head, the sleeve length is just right. If you don't do cut-outs or swarm captures, then I would order your normal size because they do run a little large.

When I ordered mine. ML told me that it's one of their most popular items and they can't keep up with the orders. It's identical to the UB except for the velcro wrist bands. The ML has elastic. (I have both).


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## blist

Charlie, I contacted them and they said they were still waiting to get more in. I plan on ordering one whenever they are back in stock. Also, do those have a hat style hood (no pic on their site and nothing in the description)?


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## Charlie B

They are a hood style which I like better because you can unzip it and let it hang over your back when you need to. The hood stands pretty much upright when fully zipped bit I like to wear a ballcap under it to keep from getting sunburned. The hood is very roomy.


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## tbeckett

Charlie, you mentioned that you had both the ultra-breeze and the ML does the ML have the zippers on the legs? that seems to be a really good feature. I will be ordering one or the other in the next couple of days.

Thanks


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## Charlie B

I just have the ML jacket, not the full suit.


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## cbinstrasburg

cerezha said:


> Hi,I am Sergey. New on this forum.
> I have PM full vented suit with round veil. It is heavier than cotton but it does breeze! I am in California and wear minimal clothes underneath - it is 5x cooler than cotton one. Also,it seems to me it is 100% bee-sting proof. Zipper is bronze (brass?),works very well without waxing. Veil zipper part is a little bit unusual, but works fine as soon as you get familiar with it. This is pro.
> 
> Couple things, which I do not like or feel it may be better:
> - the bottom part of the pants does not have a zipper, so one needs to put suit first and than shoes. It also has no elastic band to minimize the gap between pants and shoes.
> - the end of the sleeves is very rough - it erodes my not very fine skin on wrists.
> - the elastic band to keep sleeves put broke next day.
> - leather gloves (separate from the suit) are very comfortable, but fabric mesh part broke after a few uses - bee-size holes in the mesh...
> 
> Few more things:
> - PM is very nice. I ordered suit, which apparently was 3x bigger than me. PM agreed to exchange it without any problem. New suit was on back-order, so I need to wait for 3 months... but, they even did not charge me extra shipping...very nice.
> - keep in mind that this is "plastic" fabric, it did not shrink and quite rough (eroded my skin at wrists). Do not repeat my mistake- order your exact size or one size up if you really tall. I am 6' and XL was gigantic on me. Thing is that it should not be too baggy - fabric is literally 100%-proof against stings.
> - Except the wrists, the suit is very comfortable.
> - I really like round veil- you could move your head and there is some breeze also!
> - it is my understanding that this bee-suit is lighter than real Ultrabreeze (read somewhere on the Internet).
> - It is made in India.
> - The "hat", which supports round veil made from thin cotton and need some sort of reinforcement - bees could very easily sting through. I am using a "secondary" hat to keep distance between veil-hat and my head - works fine, no problem.
> 
> Good luck with choosing the suit.


sergey do you mind if I ask how big you are and what size you wound up getting...thanks


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## cerezha

Cbinstrasburg
I am 6' tall and medium completion (waist 32). I use PM suite size L. Originally I ordered XL and it was HUGE! I returned it back and order "L", which was on back order for 3 month. Once I got it, I am quite pleased with it. See detailed review above. Also,it does not have a zippers on the legs. Sergey


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## cerezha

PM vented suit has two designs - with round "hat" and "hood". I tried both. I like "hat" better - more view and there is some breeze at your face. You could unzip "hat" in exact the same way as a "hood", but "hat" bulkier. I do not know if PM and ML are the same. Sergey


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## AJ Boss

Hey Guys I need some help, I am now getting in to beekeeping I live in Trinidad & Tobago, we only have Africanized bees here (very agro) I need a sting proof suit Is this the best or are there better?


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## cerezha

Hey Boss
My PM vented suit (similar if not identical to ML) is completely sting proof, but it is pricey, $150. All vented suits have a similar design - two layers of mesh fabric separated by the "net", so the total thickness of "sandwich" is thicker than bee's stinging "tool"... In such design, girls may get inside only if zipper unzipped or velcro was not in place... These vented suits also are very fancy - especially if you are in bikini (I am too old for this). When I wear mine for the class (sadly, no bikini), I felt I am a star first time in my life. I feel similarly when do deep beehive inspection - my girls love it so much! A lot of attention! The only thing, you need to disturb them enough to get out of their dwelling so they could see you in super-duper suit. I guess, with africanized girls - you should have an immediate attention!


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## Ledge

I ordered an XL suit from ML last Friday, and was told that it was on backorder. It actually shipped yesterday, and is due to arrive on Monday. We will see how everything turns out, because up to this point, i have been using a pair of tyvek painters coveralls. This year, i have one hive that is particularly hot. While i was in it last weekend, the back of the coveralls blew out, exposing the upper edge of my butt crack. Needless to say, it was hard to concentrate on getting the hive back together with all of the sweat droplets accumulating on my glasses. $165 to avoid that is worth every penny.


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## signalten

I don't want to open up another thread so here we go. I bought a Mann Lake Vented full suit and it was delivered today. It came with nylon zippers on the chest, legs and veil despite the website saying that they come with heavy duty metal zippers. I have an email into Mann Lake to see what the deal is. I'm not sure about the nylon zippers. I have had a couple of jackets with nylon zippers and they have been fine but this suit's zippers seem really weak. I've also had problems with brass zippers before in some hunting clothes but they seem much more durable. Does anyone have the suit with nylon zippers and how is it holding up? I don't want to throw $155 away. I'll let you know what Mann Lake says.


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## Ross

Biggest problem with nylon zippers is that they will seize solid sometimes, especially if you let them sit for a long time.


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## BeeGhost

My ML ventilated jacket came with brass zippers and I just bought it a month ago. I love that jacket, little heavier than my regular jacket, but it's also a lot cooler!


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## Charlie B

I have brass zippers on my ML jacket as well, I wonder why the switch to nylon? Anyway, it's a great jacket and just as good as UB, (I have both).


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## signalten

I just got an email back from Mann Lake. They explained that they switched to nylon zippers for 2013 but they still have brass models in stock. They will send me one with a return label for the suit I was originally sent.


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## Charlie B

signalten said:


> I just got an email back from Mann Lake. They explained that they switched to nylon zippers for 2013 but they still have brass... They will send me one with a return label for the suit I was originally sent.


Good move. You can always count on ML to make it right. You'll love your suit.


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## Michael B

my jacket purchased last year has brass zippers and they always bound and finally rendered the suit useless.

Dissapointed


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## Walker66

We use ventilated bee suits from a small company in Georgia called Pigeon Mountain, the quality seems to be very good, they back them up with a if you are not happy there is a money back policy with the bee suits. Have not seen a better made ventilated bee suit or a better price anywhere. Ventilated Bee Wear


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## LeonardS

A little beeswax on the zipper makes them work great.


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## Walker66

Is funny you mention the zipper, we have about 100 hives, one of the guys had worn a Pigeon Mountain ventilated suit for about a year, suit looked terrible, dirty, torn, zipper broke, sent it to Pigeon Mountian, they replaced the zipper, washed it and sent it back. Never expected that to happen, we were surprised and bought more.


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## sjvbee

Have used ultra breeze suits for years bought two Mann lake jackets this year for two guys that work for us and the are hanging in the barn. When asked why they are wearing their old suits they said zippers are a problem and the overall fit was poor Especially the hood, hard to flip back


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## Michael B

Also, I found the vented material to be rough on your skin.


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## Daniel Y

I have the suit from Pigeon Mountain. I am planning on buying two more. one for my son and one for my daughter. They helped me with a cut out this weekend and we simply cannot do without them any longer. we are playing in the bees far to often. My son got 5 stings in all mainly due to no good jacket to wear. I got 6 but that is because I work to much with exposed areas or no gear at all. I am thinking of a full seat for times I will be doing a lot of overhead reaching like doing cut outs. I have to find and answer for the veil though. putting one on is like putting on sun glasses at night. it makes it impossible to see into even partially shaded nooks and crannies. I want a veil with a clear plastic viewing window. Preferably replaceable with inexpensive lenses so when they get scratched or dirty you just change them.

The zipper on the pigeon mountain is a bear but gets better with use. it is also backwards or they sent me the ladies version. It is major comfortable at mild temps. I just spent 4 plus hours in ti in the past two days. never broke a sweat. I wear a shirt under it so the roughness is not a problem. My only real complaint is the veil and I woudl have that with any veil. It does soften up a little when washed. I have had one small tear in ti so far which I was able to repair just fine. No wear on the veil after one year. no real wear on the jacket after one year. given I don't expect any jacket to last more than three I think it is doing very well.
I also own a more typical jacket. my daughter uses it but I consider it a waste of money. TI gets to hot and she has to walk away and take breaks to cool off constantly. She will use my jacket when I am not there and has told me several times it would make a great gift, hint hint


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## USCBeeMan

I purchased an Ultra Breeze several years ago. They are heavy and I don't think they are very "breezy" on these humid hot summer days. I use it during cutouts and working my bees. Very expensive. After just 1 year the zippers started failing in one direction. In other words, there are 2 zippers on each leg, chest, and head. Either one zips it up or down depending on the current status of the zipper. Now all but the head zipper will only work from one direction. I have to zip the top zipper all the way down the zip both of the zippers up the close the zipper itself. The metal "holder" on the head zipper broke off on one of the zippers.

Needless to say I basically don't have a viable suit. Sometimes I have used gorilla tape to keep the legs together.

I washed the suit a lot as I do a lot of cutouts. The honey, dirt, grime, and phermone from the stingers make it hard to use the suit again. If I don't wash it and go into one of my apiaries, the bees will start attacking me as they smell the pheremone from the stingers that were left behind.

But this type of suit is still much better than the cotton suits that don't breathe at all and bees can sting through them.

I just ordered one from PM. I think it cost me $175. But the UB suit is $259. You can now purchase the UB on Amazon. I googled UB and found that they sell them also at MannLake.

My UB is a large and was too big for me, but I needed the suit ASAP and didn't have the time to return it and get a medium. I am 5'8" and weight about 180. Ordering a med in the PM suit. If it doesn't find correctly, I still have time to get it exchanged.

Hope this helps.


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## kincade

I love my ultrabreeze and have found ub customer service to be nothing short of fantastic. Have you tried to email them about your problems? Id bet they would fix it. 

I had a complaint about the veil touching my face. I emailed, and they sent the new design with boning to keep it rigid. Works perfectly and im very happy with the jacket.


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## simplynatural

Thanks for the comments.


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## signalten

I can't speak about the Pigeon Mountain quality but looking at their site it appears that the only difference is one is a jacket and one is a suit. Yes, you want to order a little bit large. If the suit becomes tight against the skin, you can be stung through it. So, larger works better especially when you are lifting or bending.


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## Charlie B

I wear a ballcap underneath my hood and the brim of the cap keeps it off your face.


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## simplynatural

Oh brother, I missed that one - so if you get the suite it is professional quality otherwise who knows *G*.

I did not realize they are $20 more (I was reading too many old posts that said ML was much more expensive), and then $20 shipping on top. So i might just end up going ML and regretting it.  Also ML only has hooded and while I have NO experience with either, I do think my overheating husband would probably be more comfortable in a round style. Only one person commented on it being warmer - any other comments on hooded vs. round?


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## Daniel Y

I only use the fencing hood. but my kids have a round hood. they prefer the fencing hood when they can get ahold of it. I have read comments from others that they do not like the restricted peripheral vision of the fencing hood. I don't notice. A ball cap woudl help when looking up.

I wear and extra large tall shirt. I go the extra large jacket and the sleeves are barely long enough when i each. the most common place I get stung is on the wrist where the jacket slides back just a bit. I am worried that an extra large suit will be to short for my 6foot 2 inch body.


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## Ledge

I'm 5' 11" 260 lbs, and my extra large Mann Lake Ventilated suit could be larger. The sleeves aren't long enough, nor is the torso. Squatting down, it binds up. Not terrible, but I should have gotten a bigger suit to grow in to!


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## TexasHoney

I'm looking at the Mann Lake Vented Suit but I am having a heck of a time figuring out what size to order. I was originally considering the large suit, but I am worried that will be WAY to big. I am 5'5" and weigh 168lbs. Using the sizing chart, my weight is greater than the medium suit. That being said I do Crossfit and play Roller Derby so despite my weight, I am a fairly average sized girl (Size 8). There should be a correlation between the suit and ladies pants sizes in the chart for us dummies... lol.

If you go by measurements, it seems that I need the medium suit. I've got a 29 inch inseam. Should I go with the large and then deal with it if it is too big? or go with the Medium and hope it fits? Decisions, decisions. This is my first bee suit. I am a new-bee.


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## KPeacock

nobody can use a chart to correlate to fem ale pants sizes. As far as I can tell from my wife, females can fit into jeans ranging about 6 or 8 sizes depending on manufacturer. thats pretty hard to work into a meaningful comparison chart.

I would go BIG. it is very easy to resew seams to make areas smaller, and its easy to adjust the leg length...etc. to make them shorter. It's much harder to make suits bigger/longer. I ordered a XXL to have the extra material. my only complaint is that the built in veail is a bit "floppy" but it hasn't bothered me enough to actually fix it just yet. Get a big suit and be happy


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## Charlie B

My XL Mann Lake vented jacket was too big for me and I'm 5' 10", 190. I wound up getting a L and using the XL for mentoring.


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## Creekside

Just a heads up. I tried to order a L or XL Mann lake vented jacket a couple weeks ago and was informed that they won't be available till Aug. They did have XXL in stock. Things may have changed since then though. I ended up ordering a XL Ultra Breeze and it sure is nice but I liked the price of the Mann Lake a hole lot better. Just could not wait till Aug.


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## cerezha

USCBeeMan said:


> ...I just ordered one from PM. I think it cost me $175. ...


 My PM vented suit stop being bees-proof in the second year. I have no explanation for this, but I am having 5 stings every time I use it recently. Stings are at the shoulders, under arm and at the wrist. I attributed it partially to very "dedicated" (as somebody expressed at beesource) bees, but still, it is not bees-proof anymore. I like the round veil (not fenced) - it is away from the face and it is colder inside. Unfortunately, PM made the fabric part of the round veil from very thin material and you need to wear some hat underneath for bee-protection. I used to recommend this bee-suit last year, not anymore. I feel $170 for one season is too much.


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## TexasHoney

KPeacock said:


> nobody can use a chart to correlate to fem ale pants sizes. As far as I can tell from my wife, females can fit into jeans ranging about 6 or 8 sizes depending on manufacturer. thats pretty hard to work into a meaningful comparison chart.


Well then KPeacock, I will have to get out and do more shopping to experiment.  I haven't bought a new pair of jeans in several years. Pretty much all of the pants in my closet are the same size.



Creekside said:


> Just a heads up. I tried to order a L or XL Mann lake vented jacket a couple weeks ago and was informed that they won't be available till Aug. They did have XXL in stock. Things may have changed since then though. I ended up ordering a XL Ultra Breeze and it sure is nice but I liked the price of the Mann Lake a hole lot better. Just could not wait till Aug.


I don't have my hive built yet. That is on my to do list, or should I say, my Husband's to do list. I am great at taking care of the farm, but building things is not a talent that I was granted. I don't think I want to wait until August, I've got some folks who are going to take me out in their bee yards and start letting me get some hands on. I've been told that the Pigeon Mountain suits are fairly good as well. I also saw some Jawadis suits for under 50 bucks. Maybe that would do until Mann Lake has theirs back in stock. I just figured that the 100% cotton suits would be HOT in Texas.


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## cerezha

simplynatural said:


> ... I do think my overheating husband would probably be more comfortable in a round style. Only one person commented on it being warmer - any other comments on hooded vs. round?


 I originally ordered hooded version - I did not like it: to "crowded inside, hot (!), sweaty and limited field of view. I exchanged on round kind and it is much better: mesh is away from the face, a lot of room for some air, feels less claustrophobic. In my particular case (PM vented suit), the round veil design is not great because they used very thin material for the upper part (sort of sombrero) - bees penetrate this easily where the "hat" is sitting on your head. I have to wear additional hat inside to address this issue. It makes things a little bit more complicated and warmer 

In general, round veil looks weird, but, it seems to me is better in terms of ventilation and heat. Also, I noticed, that occasional smoke stays in the fenced veil.


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## Northwest PA Beekeeper

After much decision, I decided to order a Mann Lake vented suit. I'm 265 pounds and around 5' 10". I ordered the X Large vented suit. I got it, and while I fit in it, I barely fit. According to the sizing chart, an X Large should fit a person up to 280 pounds. It did not fit me.

I sent it back and ordered a XX large one. I was afraid it would almost be too big for me since the sizing char says it fits a person up to 300 pounds. I received it and it fits okay. I'm still wondering if the XXX Large would have been too big for me.

Their sizing chart doesn't say anything about the XXX Large suit, but then they don't make a Petite vented suit. (Although it lists a petite in the chart. I'm wondering if ordering a vented suit, if the information shouldn't be as such.

Sizing chart Petite Small Medium Large X Large XX Large XL Tall

Vented suit? Then order Small Medium Large X Large XX Large XXX Large

Anyway, I guess what I'm saying is to order the next size up in the sizing chart the Mann Lake book says


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## KQ6AR

Our mann lake was just selling out all the vented jacket stock at $50. We bought 2 jackets for the club but they only had smalls left. You might want to ask about sales at the local branches.
Are they redesigning them for 2013?


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## cerezha

cbinstrasburg said:


> sergey do you mind if I ask how big you are and what size you wound up getting...thanks


 Oooo old post. I am 180 lb and 6' tall. I believe, my current PM vented beesuit is size L. I ordered originally XL and it was gigantic. I exchanged it on smaller one. This current one fits me well, it is long enough, which is most important to me. The current update is that this beesuit in second season lost its bees-proof-ability. Somehow bees could sting through the fabric now - 5 stings each two last inspections, shoulders, under arm and wrists... not recommended anymore


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## Ultra Breeze

I'm writing to clarify that the Ultra Breeze suits and jackets are NOT sold by Mann Lake or Pigeon Mountain. The Ultra Breeze can be purchased through our website and through Amazon. We have suits and jackets in stock in all sizes. 

Kind regards,
Stephanie
Ultra Breeze Suits, LLC


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## shinbone

I just wanted to add I am on my second year with my Ultrabreeze full suit. It is great! I have never been stung through it or around it.

Each year, I always seem to have one especially defensive hive, and having confidence in my bee suit allows me to plunge into the hive while the bees swarm me and I don't have any concerns about being stung.


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## tbeckett

This is also my 2nd year with the Ultra Breeze full suite. Their customer service has been awesome. When I first got my suit, there was an issue with the veil touching under my chin. I sent some pictures to show what was going on and soon a newly redesigned veil was at my house. I have never been stung since then and the only place a bee ever got me was through the veil. 

Just as important is that these suits have full zippers on the legs with Elastic at the bottom. This makes them easy to put on and to pull off. 

it is also awesome how much cooler these are than the ordinary cotton suits.

Will be ordering one for my Dad (he's 83) this summer.


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## dnichols

Since this is a Mann lake jacket thread I will post about that. I love it so far but I never owned an Ultrabreeze so I cannot compare. I was stung through the jacket for the first time yesterday. I was pretty surprised! Two shots on the right shoulder. I wasnt using smoke and the hive was queenless. They were pretty testy! inch:

All in all I am pretty happy with it.


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## tbeckett

dnichols, you are correct, I should have been paying more attention to the thread. Sorry, not trying to hi-jack.


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## KQ6AR

I'm also going a little off topic, my 5 year old ultra breeze just became a guest jacket. The elastic is a little loose, & the veil has a little duct tape on it.
Took my new UB out of the closet for myself. t:


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## Charlie B

I've had both jackets, ML and UB for several years now and both are holding up equally as well. ML is a better price for basically the same jacket. If you zip the jacket and hood closed as if you were wearing it, you can machine wash on the "Delicate" setting in cold water with a little bleach. It comes out pretty clean.


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## kincade

Charlie, just curious, but how have you had the ML vented jacket for several years? Wasn't this a new item from ML and Pigeon Mountain in the last 2 years?


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## Charlie B

I had to go back and look at my previous post. I've had the ML jacket over a year so it hasn't been several years so my apologies for the inaccuracy. I'm sure however that the ML jacket will last for many years to come.


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## tommyt

I have the ML and swear by it, Also is Bomb Proof I do removals that are pretty Pissy from time to time and I have yet to be stung through it
I have other Bee jackets and will get stung and sweat my rear off

I only wish I bought a Ultra breeze Years ago (because they where the only one's around  )
I make that statement on the basis of how much I really like the ML one (cool/Stingless)
If I wasn't so cheap I would have BOUGHT the Ultra years ago
and would Never had too suffer through the stings and Heat


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## tbeckett

Does the Mann lake have zippered legs?


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## kincade

Charlie B said:


> I had to go back and look at my previous post. I've had the ML jacket over a year so it hasn't been several years so my apologies for the inaccuracy. I'm sure however that the ML jacket will last for many years to come.


Thanks Charlie, I appreciate the clarification.


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## KevinWI

This is a pretty old thread, but I'm researching the ML vented jacket......and the reason I'm bringing back this thread is to get the responders input on how their bee jackets have fared over the years ... I see ML vented jacket is "new design" now, so it might not be relevant.


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## Charlie B

What ever you do, do not get the ProVent Jacket at ML. Poor quality and the zipper broke within a couple of months. The vale was way to large for the jacket so it always flops down on my face or on the back of my head.


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## wildbranch2007

Charlie B said:


> What ever you do, do not get the ProVent Jacket at ML. Poor quality and the zipper broke within a couple of months. The vale was way to large for the jacket so it always flopped down on my face or on the back of my head.


I'll second charlie B, worst jacket I ever bought, curse it each time I try to put it on, can fix the vale, I have three safety pins in it to shrink it up.


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## USCBeeMan

Never purchased a ML. Have always purchased Ultra Breeze. First one was a complete head to toe suit. Hot, snagged a lot and zipper was sorry. Also very heavy. 2nd was the a jacket. Some improved. Still snaggy. That can't be avoided. Zipper still inferior. Both suits could have had better Velcro. Both have been put through the wringer as I do a lot of cutouts. 3rd was another jacket I purchased recently. Much improved quality!!! Velcro better and locations of Velcro improved. Zipper is now heavy duty. Love it. OBSERVATIONS:. These type of jackets are much more cooler when not wearing a shirt. They get dirty very easily. Alarm pherenome is absorbed quickly when attacked by bees. Wearing a suit/jacket too often w/o washing will get you attacked before you reach the hives. Especially after opening a couple. A dirty jacket attracks flys. Probably because of my sweat. Flys will be covering my jacket in the truck. It's impossible to get rid of them. I LOVE MY NEW IMPROVED jacket. I may purchase another one before the end of the year.


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## USCBeeMan

P.S. Always get the next size up if you are no sure. The have great customer service!!!


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## max2

I import Bee suits from India and Pakistan - to Australia. They are pretty well the same as the one I purchased from a well known US company years ago. The zips are YKK.
I can sell them here for about $ 100 and I buy very modest quantities.
So far I had no returns and no complaints.
I would love to buy Australian made but our costs here are too high.


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## KevinWI

Charlie B said:


> What ever you do, do not get the ProVent Jacket at ML. Poor quality and the zipper broke within a couple of months. The vale was way to large for the jacket so it always flops down on my face or on the back of my head.


I ended up with the ML vented jacket....seems well made..thick tho...



wildbranch2007 said:


> I'll second charlie B, worst jacket I ever bought, curse it each time I try to put it on, can fix the vale, I have three safety pins in it to shrink it up.


Glad I stayed away from that model.



USCBeeMan said:


> Never purchased a ML. Have always purchased Ultra Breeze. First one was a complete head to toe suit. Hot, snagged a lot and zipper was sorry. Also very heavy. 2nd was the a jacket. Some improved. Still snaggy. That can't be avoided. Zipper still inferior. Both suits could have had better Velcro. Both have been put through the wringer as I do a lot of cutouts. 3rd was another jacket I purchased recently. Much improved quality!!! Velcro better and locations of Velcro improved. Zipper is now heavy duty. Love it. OBSERVATIONS:. These type of jackets are much more cooler when not wearing a shirt. They get dirty very easily. Alarm pherenome is absorbed quickly when attacked by bees. Wearing a suit/jacket too often w/o washing will get you attacked before you reach the hives. Especially after opening a couple. A dirty jacket attracks flys. Probably because of my sweat. Flys will be covering my jacket in the truck. It's impossible to get rid of them. I LOVE MY NEW IMPROVED jacket. I may purchase another one before the end of the year.





USCBeeMan said:


> P.S. Always get the next size up if you are no sure. The have great customer service!!!


I wear a large winter jacket...I ordered the large and fit me well.

The sleeves are the biggest issue.....I wish it had velcro cuffs....the wristband has gaps in it...it is very thick bee jacket...surprised me ....almost like a sweater felt like.
I did a quick video on it:


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