# Mann Lake's Quick Draw Rite-Cell® Premium Foundation



## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

I would check out Acorn foundation, lots of good reviews on bees accepting it.

I have used plastic foundation made by ML and they don't use enough wax and bees draw it poorly at times. If you purchase from ML just be prepared to roller additional wax on.


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## angryhippie (Mar 11, 2010)

This is supposed to have more wax on them than their original Rite-Cell foundation to fix that very problem


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## mike17l (Jun 22, 2012)

FlowerPlanter said:


> I would check out Acorn foundation, lots of good reviews on bees accepting it.
> 
> I have used plastic foundation made by ML and they don't use enough wax and bees draw it poorly at times. If you purchase from ML just be prepared to roller additional wax on.


X2


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## mcon672 (Mar 5, 2015)

+1 on acorn they draw it out well. I order it from ohio bee box company and get the heavy wax. I like the fact that it is black it makes it a little easier to see eggs.


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## Flyer Jim (Apr 22, 2004)

angryhippie said:


> This is supposed to have more wax on them than their original Rite-Cell foundation to fix that very problem


 
If it has any wax it will be more than the original. Buy acorn.


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## Banemorth (Feb 28, 2015)

Where does everyone buy their Acorn foundation? This is the first I'm hearing of it. My bees draw out the Mann Lake foundations in the deeps no problem but honey supers is another thing entirely.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

http://www.acornbee.com/

I would also use foundationless frames once you have some drawn frames.


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## mcon672 (Mar 5, 2015)

I buy my acorn from ohio bee box company but have also bought it from Amazon.
https://theohiobeeboxcompany.com/woodenware/assembled-frame-with-foundation

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01L...foundation&dpPl=1&dpID=51Dt6hvT48L&ref=plSrch


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## Banemorth (Feb 28, 2015)

mcon672 said:


> I buy my acorn from ohio bee box company but have also bought it from Amazon.
> https://theohiobeeboxcompany.com/woodenware/assembled-frame-with-foundation
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01L...foundation&dpPl=1&dpID=51Dt6hvT48L&ref=plSrch




Thank you! Their price for heavy wax is just about the same as the Mann Lake standard frames so I'm there. Next round of hives I get I'll give these frames a whirl.


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## Brad C (Jan 31, 2017)

I also bought the Acorn foundation from Ohio Bee Box company and the bees have drawn it out really well from what I can tell. Although I'm new so I don't have much experience to compare it to.


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## kaizen (Mar 20, 2015)

big reason I use mannlake is free shipping. buying 100 is heavy. imo bees will draw wax when needed. never had an issue with them not expanding if they need to. besides its only the first year. i really like having plastic spinning out supers. Last order i got their black foundation. really awesome to use in the broodnest. eggs jump out at you. 
OP......80 frames with a jig is less then an hour assembly including popping in the foundation. One of the things beekeepers can do to save money.


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## Banemorth (Feb 28, 2015)

kaizen said:


> big reason I use mannlake is free shipping. buying 100 is heavy. imo bees will draw wax when needed. never had an issue with them not expanding if they need to. besides its only the first year. i really like having plastic spinning out supers. Last order i got their black foundation. really awesome to use in the broodnest. eggs jump out at you.
> OP......80 frames with a jig is less then an hour assembly including popping in the foundation. One of the things beekeepers can do to save money.


That Ohio Bee store has free shipping on $100 or more.


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## Outdoor N8 (Aug 7, 2015)

Someone feel free to speak up if you feel my interpretation of events is .... off.

The only reason MannLake is offering the new 'quick draw' is because Acorn raised the bar, quite a bit higher, in the foundation game. 
(currently have cases of frames coming from ML but the foundation is coming from Acorn!)


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

I recently purchased Acorn heavy wax foundation from Ohio Bee Box for supers. Our flow is tailing off so I didn't know if the bees would start drawing it or not, but they are. :applause:

Alex


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## DerTiefster (Oct 27, 2016)

I've bought my Acorn foundation through BlythewoodBeeCompany in S.C. They have a free shipping threshold amount, also, but their website gives my primitive browser a fit concerning shipping costs until that threshold is reached. Good service and reasonable price. My only connection with them is as a customer.

I found that it is possible for the bees to foul up any frame in the eyes of the beekeeper, regardless of which foundation or foundationless is used. Most of my Acorn foundation is being drawn perfectly. In some lackluster hives with iffy queens or slow starts with apparently secondary swarms (virgin queens?) the bees draw the same knobby dribbles of comb on standoffs from the plastic, just like they might on a wooden surface. There's just not nearly as much of it mis-handled as I've seen with other foundation. I have problems keeping wax foundation straight, so that's not a panacea. I also have had a few problems with foundationless.... I think the bees felt they were performing adequately, but they're rather closed-mouthed about it.


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## kaizen (Mar 20, 2015)

Banemorth said:


> That Ohio Bee store has free shipping on $100 or more.


Good for them. Last I looked it was really high. Still. I got 36 manlake boxes unassembled and delivered for 9 bucks a piece. They are still at 15+. 
I didn't realize this thread was talking about plastic frames. I thought it was talking foundation. I'll stick with my manlake wooden frames and ritecell for 2 bucks a piece. 
It does look like ohio has them beat on this plastic frame. I've gotten 4 over the last 3 years from nucs I purchased and all of them have broken. so 100percent with chips or cracks. Think I broke one wood one.....so one out of ummmmm 300 or so.


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## Foxhound (Feb 19, 2015)

Banemorth said:


> Where does everyone buy their Acorn foundation? This is the first I'm hearing of it. My bees draw out the Mann Lake foundations in the deeps no problem but honey supers is another thing entirely.



I've got acorn foundation with heavy wax. It's the only foundaiton that I sell and it works great. Lot's of people coming back to buy more of it year after year. Shipping is pretty reasonable as well. 


https://www.foxhoundbeecompany.com/langstroth-beekeeping-supplies/plastic-foundation-with-extra-wax


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## Banemorth (Feb 28, 2015)

Foxhound said:


> I've got acorn foundation with heavy wax. It's the only foundaiton that I sell and it works great. Lot's of people coming back to buy more of it year after year. Shipping is pretty reasonable as well.
> 
> 
> https://www.foxhoundbeecompany.com/langstroth-beekeeping-supplies/plastic-foundation-with-extra-wax


I absolutely love your logo! I'm a dog & bee guy as well. Honey Hound Farm haha. I bookmarked your site for future use


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## mike17l (Jun 22, 2012)

Outdoor N8 said:


> Someone feel free to speak up if you feel my interpretation of events is .... off.
> 
> The only reason MannLake is offering the new 'quick draw' is because Acorn raised the bar, quite a bit higher, in the foundation game.
> (currently have cases of frames coming from ML but the foundation is coming from Acorn!)


That's what most are assuming. The ML foundation has been crap. Acorn blew them out of the water. I don't think they can catch back up. I'm not even convinced that ML actually uses beeswax on their frames. Any there is is soft like paraffin. Acorn is the only way to go for me.




kaizen said:


> Good for them. Last I looked it was really high. Still. I got 36 manlake boxes unassembled and delivered for 9 bucks a piece. They are still at 15+.
> I didn't realize this thread was talking about plastic frames. I thought it was talking foundation. I'll stick with my manlake wooden frames and ritecell for 2 bucks a piece.
> It does look like ohio has them beat on this plastic frame. I've gotten 4 over the last 3 years from nucs I purchased and all of them have broken. so 100percent with chips or cracks. Think I broke one wood one.....so one out of ummmmm 300 or so.


Ohio is a distributor. I ordered my first 3 boxes of foundation from them. Then I went direct to Acorn, much better pricing. I just got:
400 medium heavy wax foundation
100 deep heavy wax foundation
200 medium heavy wax frames
100 deep heavy wax frames

Total price, shipped from CA to TX was $1,000. All those were different prices, but that's 1.25/piece shipped. (shipping for 10 boxes was $150). 

Direct from Acorn is the way to go!


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## Bluto (Feb 19, 2017)

I had an order in with Ohio Bee Box for Acorn foundation, no communication and no foundation. I emailed only to find out they were on back order with no estimated arrival date, somehow they had "missed" me in sending notification emails. Found Foxhound on the net, nearby in B'ham and had it in two days, same price as OBBC but had to pay the shipping. But hey! I got the product and not the runaround! My first order as a beek with Mannlake I ordered some assembled frame/foundation with RiteCell. If they have wax on it, I'm a monkey's uncle.


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

Foxhound said:


> I've got acorn foundation with heavy wax. It's the only foundaiton that I sell and it works great. Lot's of people coming back to buy more of it year after year. Shipping is pretty reasonable as well.
> 
> 
> https://www.foxhoundbeecompany.com/langstroth-beekeeping-supplies/plastic-foundation-with-extra-wax


This dude above is where I buy my Acorn foundation. Adam is a super good guy.


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## DerTiefster (Oct 27, 2016)

To try to recover the O.P.'s intent (and to make up somewhat for being party to the diversion of topic), does anyone have experience they'd like to post? I have personally bought none of Mann Lake's Rite-Cell material, and what I have in my possession from my daughter's previous purchases was not well drawn out. But she and her husband were generally absentee beekeepers and they didn't manage the foundation for draw-out.

Some posters have been very happy with Mann Lake's product. They probably know better than I how and when to use it. I also suspect that the "Quick Draw Premium" version will work better than the standard. I don't mean to pan anyone's product when I haven't given it an even break in testing in the field, and I do not mean to say Acorn's product is superior to Rite Cell. I haven't done a fair and direct comparison of them.

Michael



angryhippie said:


> Has anyone used Mann Lake's Quick Draw Rite-Cell® Premium Foundation? What are your opinions. I have used plastic foundation in the past and had mixed results getting them to draw them out, but I've heard these are different.
> 
> Our bee club wants to get 80 frames pre-assembled since no one has the time to build them. Before we make the purchase, I wanted to make sure they'll work


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

DerTiefster said:


> I haven't done a fair and direct comparison of them.
> 
> Michael


I have. I set up several tests last year when I started using Acorn. It was drawn out faster than Ritecell every single time. The will draw Ritecell just fine in the midst of a good flow. Mine were drawing Acorn foundation this spring, in March when placed near the brood nest. Year old "new" Ritecell, IMO is largely ignored in a hive, unless wax is added.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

I have not used Acorn so I am guessing here; my guess from my experience with Ritecell is that it is far more about the amount of wax (and freshness) than about the geometry of the foundation pattern. Two or three year old Ritecell is just not as attractive to bees as fresh out of the box sheets. Freshly brushed with additional melted wax makes a big difference in acceptance especially early in the season when the bees really aren't producing new wax yet.

If you put any value on your time and consider the cost of the wax involved I think the Acorn is worthwhile. I haven't the dollar comparison between Acorn and the Quick Draw Ritecell. Does anyone have a comparison about acceptance when the two are used under identical conditions?

I just have a couple of pics of rewaxed partial sheet Ritecell drawn out Lauri style. The centre portion was drawn out pretty much in lock step with the guide ridge foundationless areas either side. That seems to be working well.


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## Bkwoodsbees (Feb 8, 2014)

Ohio bee box co , Justin is a class act. Not saying the others are not. He works very long hours and sometimes will be late sending emails but I have never lost faith in him. He like alot of us has trouble finding good help.


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## SS Auck (May 8, 2015)

If you are getting a box of 100 foundations. Just order from Acorn, call Nick he is super easy to talk to and get it ordered and it ships pretty fast. 3 or 4 days to missouri from Cali.


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## m0dem (May 14, 2016)

What about Pierco? Is there a good amount of wax on it and do the bees draw it out well?
You can get one piece frames for $2.40 each if you order a case of 30 frames directly from Pierco.
https://www.pierco.com/collections/frontpage/products/9-frame-waxed-30-pack?variant=4803765571
A case of 30 frames is $72 and if your order is above $100, you get free shipping.


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## mike17l (Jun 22, 2012)

m0dem said:


> What about Pierco? Is there a good amount of wax on it and do the bees draw it out well?
> You can get one piece frames for $2.40 each if you order a case of 30 frames directly from Pierco.
> https://www.pierco.com/collections/frontpage/products/9-frame-waxed-30-pack?variant=4803765571
> A case of 30 frames is $72 and if your order is above $100, you get free shipping.


Heavy wax frames from acorn just cost me $1.55/each. Shipping is not included, but on 10 boxes of materials was $150. At most these cost me $1.70/each.


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## m0dem (May 14, 2016)

mike17l said:


> Heavy wax frames from acorn just cost me $1.55/each. Shipping is not included, but on 10 boxes of materials was $150. At most these cost me $1.70/each.


Wow! That's amazing pricing.
Thanks for sharing.


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## m0dem (May 14, 2016)

mike17l said:


> Heavy wax frames from acorn just cost me $1.55/each. Shipping is not included, but on 10 boxes of materials was $150. At most these cost me $1.70/each.


Wow! That's amazing pricing.
Thanks for sharing.


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