# Building Commercial Migratory Pallets, with Pallet Plans



## DC Honeybees

All:

I have seen a lot of requests on this forum for pallet plans. I have cobbled together historic info from BeeSource and some practical learning from beekeepers. The blog entry I put together (and the associated vid) are pretty dumbed down for amateur woodworking folks as I get lots of (and repeated) questions on dimensions/sequencing/etc. but here it is in all its glory:
http://dchoneybees.blogspot.com/2013/01/commercial-migratory-pallet-design.html

I await the comments from the gallery!

Jeff.


----------



## sqkcrk

Jeff, I'll have to go check my pallets, but I think the W clips should both face the same way.


----------



## jim lyon

Yeah thats pretty much the essence of them. We keep our 1" x 6" pieces back a ways so they "nest" inside of the front clips. By putting them all the way to the front it requires a 3rd one in the middle to alleviate stress on the 2"x4" stringers and can result in rocking on uneven terrain. The days of 408 doubles ended for us about the time fuel hit $3.00. If you are running doubles you are still legal going 4 high (just over 8') and then shorten your load as needed to stay under 80,000. If you are loading a step deck it costs you 500 lbs. or so but allows you to carry a bit more bulk. We kept unit shipping costs for Almonds low by mixing singles 2 to 1 with doubles and were able to average just over 600 hives per load.


----------



## DC Honeybees

Great scoop Jim on the 1 x6's. And an easy fix!


----------



## sqkcrk

Jim, 4 high dbls? Don't you mean 3 high?


----------



## jim lyon

Its close but I have done it a time or two. We just shipped out some loads on flatbeds that were 2 doubles and 3 singles which would be about 5" lower than 4 doubles. They always break out the ole tapemeasure on me and grumble a bit. The best way for doubles is a stepdeck with 3 up for 3 rows (leaving the front empty) then 4 high down until you max them out. But we havent hauled full loads of doubles in some time.


----------



## sqkcrk

I always run on a flatbed, loading dbls three high. When I ran six hives on wearhouse pallets I would load one layer of dbls, one layer of singles, and the third layer dbls. Seventeen rows of 6 pallets of 4 ways. 102 pallets 408 hives


----------



## SippyBees

Concerning commercial pallets... I have been thinking about something for a while for a smaller commercial situation. A pallet with 4 doubles pretty much requires a larger forklift to manage... ie: Swinger/ hummer/ bobcat... BUT.. a pallet with only 2 doubles I think could be managed by the boom loaders.. or a homemade forklift made from a larger lawn tractor. Just wondering if it would be worth the tradeoff to double the number of moves you must make but only need carry 1/3 of the weight of a large forklift, or a small forklift that might even ride in the back of a truck pulling a trailer with 50 hives behind it. Being able to place a pallet with 2 hives with a boom loader would even allow you to not carry the forklift.... such as for pollination services. 
Any feedback/ comments?


----------



## sqkcrk

Boom loaders have no trouble w/ 4 way pallets. I've seen boom loaders handle 4 ways stacked pretty tall.

Think about resale value. Two hive pallets won't have much resale value.


----------



## jim lyon

Here are a couple loads that we did recently. 
http://s470.beta.photobucket.com/user/jimlyon/media/January 2013/1359344660.jpg.html?sort=6&o=0


----------



## SippyBees

Very nice Jim... if you ever need help, would love to be there when you load them... would love to see it done.  FREE GRATA of course.
It's pics like those that inspire many like me... and I am glad there is folks like you to inspire me. 
Thanks


----------



## jim lyon

The loading is the easy part, its grading them and switching everything on to freshly cleaned pallets that is a real p-i-t-a. Oh yeah and the red truck, after all my mad calculating, ended up 300 lbs. over......300 lbs.!!!! I finally got him legal but it was a hassle.


----------



## Ian

SippyBees said:


> Concerning commercial pallets... a pallet with only 2 doubles I think could be managed by the boom loaders.
> Any feedback/ comments?


Yes, that is what I use, a double pallet
I use a boom loader, an Ezyloader which max capacity is 650 lbs
a pallet of 4 double hives fed up is too much, a double hive is much easier to maneuver


----------



## Ian

wow Jim, that is one nice looking load


----------



## sqkcrk

Where did you get your nets Jim. Mine are stiff and heavy.


----------



## jim lyon

The truckers own both of those. I know that one came from here. http://cardinalcanvas.com/ Not sure about the other one, I am just remembering Alabama or maybe Georgia. The broker had me on the phone with a salesman and he was pricing them at around $600. They are both nice light ones with flaps on each end.


----------



## DC Honeybees

I love Beesource...posting something here evokes a feeding frenzy: 211 hits on the blog since last evening!

THANKS!
Jeff.


----------



## Keith Jarrett

Jimmy, that red truck looks nice. Don't know about the other one.


----------



## jim lyon

I would have had that guy pose in front of it but he dosent stand still long enough.


----------



## tefer2

Jim, how far back do you set your 1x6s? I've seen plans that had them set back 6"


----------



## jim lyon

tefer2 said:


> Jim, how far back do you set your 1x6s? I've seen plans that had them set back 6"


That should do it. Just make sure that they fit inside the clips so they "nest" properly.


----------



## Keith Jarrett

If you have lids that have cleats on top set your 1x6 runner back so they inter-loc with the lid, this keeps your load lower & fits snug.


----------



## Keith Jarrett

alot of nesting going on this spring.


----------



## tefer2

Keith Jarrett said:


> If you have lids that have cleats on top set your 1x6 runner back so they inter-loc with the lid, this keeps your load lower & fits snug.


OK, I get it now. 3/4 lower on each layer.


----------



## Keith Jarrett

Tefer2, there are a couple things you need to take into account, as Jim mention they need to stack when emty, they need to fit when boxes are on, try to find a happy medium.

My pallets are 33 x 48 we set the runner (bee way) back a 1/2 inch to not to do damage when loading. We also have about a five inch gap between the back to back of hives, this alows us to use our tool so when we fill emty pocket up it's fast and easy. We use W clips as they are faster and easyer to use, some folks think rought is a problem, but we wax dip everything that's wood so it's not a concern for us.


----------



## sqkcrk

So your runners(long 2X4) touch in the middle of the load?


----------



## jim lyon

Mark: We have our bottoms set back on the stringers about 1/2" (to net an inch of ventilation) and then stack the pallets together so they touch in the middle. We have tried leaving gaps in the middle but they always seem to shift by the time they get to the destination.


----------



## sqkcrk

jim lyon said:


> Mark: We have our bottoms set back on the stringers about 1/2" (to net an inch of ventilation) and then stack the pallets together so they touch in the middle. We have tried leaving gaps in the middle but they always seem to shift by the time they get to the destination.


I thought that Keith was saying that his pallets are built 33WX48L which would mean that the three 2X4s would be 4 ft long,right? So, they are going to touch in the middle since the truck deck is 102" outside dimension, 96" inside the rib rail. I always have trouble w/ the boards touching in the middle.

Jim, do you use spreader boards? The kind made from 2X4s run across the top of thge load?


----------



## jim lyon

I have never used "spreader boards" they look like a good system though. I dont consider a load properly secure, though, unless there are 2"x6" boards under at least 9 straps and "v" boards front and back. Some drivers use "v" boards topped by 2"x6"'s the entire length of the load. It is nice but I think it is overkill. I havent seen Keith's pallets but I am assuming that the stringers are 4' and that he sets the bottoms back from the end of them a bit for ventilation so you end up with only the ends of the 2"x4"'s actually touching. Dont worry he will set me straight if thats not the case.


----------



## Keith Jarrett

jim lyon said:


> Dont worry he will set me straight if thats not the case.


no worries mate. 

Mark, yes 4 feet long 2x4s, if the truck that we load is 8 feet plus why not use it. If you look up nutra bee on the you-tube video it show the pallets well & me feeding sub by myself with out lifting off the hives, this can be done quickly "if" you have space between your hives. We do use 2x6 board to tie down the load (10) then cross tie the ends.


----------



## Keith Jarrett

sqkcrk said:


> I always have trouble w/ the boards touching in the middle.


Mark, I use 2x6 stud lenth board which is I beleive 3 inches short of 8 feet. This way your board won't bow, also we have the ends of the 2x6 routed so the strap fits in the slot.


----------



## sqkcrk

Cool. Thanks. Many ways.


----------



## danno

tefer2 said:


> OK, I get it now. 3/4 lower on each layer.


Sorry Terry
That was one thing I didn't include with my pallet photos. The bottom 1X ? has to be far enough back so the 2X 4 fits in the front clip of the pallet below went stacked


----------



## RAK

Keith Jarrett said:


> We use W clips as they are faster and easyer to use, some folks think rought is a problem, but we wax dip everything that's wood so it's not a concern for us.


The W can be a pain if you want to band hives to a pallet. More rot in U than W.


----------



## sqkcrk

RAK, how do you strap your hives to your pallets. Friends of mine strap theirs and have no trouble. Side to side the lids touch each other, as they also do front to back, or close enuf.


----------



## Chip Euliss

Anybody know a source of steel ply in the Dakota's. I need to "re-top" some pallets with something that lasts longer than plain old ext plywood.


----------



## Keith Jarrett

Chip, have you try dipping pallet in wax to help extend the life.


----------



## beenut46

Chip I use the stealply love it but as you say getting harder to find even in Texas,noticed where some was using AdvanTech flooring which is in 4x8 sheet but cost around $30 per sheet lot more then the 25 cents ft for the used steelply.Dont know how this stuff would hold up ,maybe if someone has used it they could comment on it


----------



## Rob Renneker

jim lyon said:


> I would have had that guy pose in front of it but he dosent stand still long enough.


That would be an understatement!


----------



## RAK

Side to Side works great for us with all U hives. I like my boxes and lids perfectly on when strapped. We use ratchet straps on white rope(rope used for pulling cables). A bit of sewing skills + chinese ratchets and you could make quite a bit of them.


----------



## Chip Euliss

AdvanTek sounds good except for the price but may be worth it if it lasts like Steel Ply. I hadn't thought of dipping them in wax but it does sound like a good idea. What do you use to dip them in Keith?


----------



## Keith Jarrett

Chip Euliss said:


> What do you use to dip them in Keith?


Chip, I dip mine in parafin wax, they don't rought, the only damage to the pallets is from the forklift. I have no idea who's drives that thing.


----------



## dback

Keith Jarrett said:


> the only damage to the pallets is from the forklift.


Yep....and I don't care how much you spend on plywood.....in the "Battle of the Move", ain't a laminate out there gonna scratch that forklift. I guess for some of you, investing in top quality materials is legitimate....we move stuff so often, it's the rare pallet that dies of natural causes.  Guess it's that halfassed thing.


----------



## jim lyon

Is anyone able to find 1"x6" lumber that has a treatment designed to protect them from direct contact with the ground? All we can find is 2" lumber with a below grade exposure rating.


----------



## Chip Euliss

Ain't that the truth!! And it always seems it's the good pallet you trash instead of the one that's rotten anyway! Keith what kind of pot do you heat the paraffin in? I'd guess that just getting the top side sealed would solve most problems. Also, straight paraffin or some mix? Thanks. Chip


----------



## dback

Jim.....we use the 1 x 6 redwood fence material (available at your favorite 'Home Center") ...... costs a couple of bucks per pallet and usually outlasts the rest of the pallet.

Just an idea.....


----------



## Keith Jarrett

Chip Euliss said:


> Keith what kind of pot do you heat the paraffin in?


Chip, this is a pic of the pallet wax tank, we burn scrap boxes ect for heat it works really well for us, we use end candle run wax, you can buy the stuff for about $.30-.50lb. We dip anything that is wood that is out in the weather. Keith


----------



## jim lyon

Keith: Do you use any treated lumber at all?


----------



## Keith Jarrett

No, Jim, I buy the pallets already made from used pallet co fresno,CA 559-260-7705 for $14 all put together clips & all. I paint boxes ONE time. It's a little slower than just painting but, your wooden ware will last 30-50 years IF the forklift doesn't get it to them first.


----------



## Chip Euliss

Thanks Keith, I'm going to give this a try--should solve the rot problem. I can see how I might modify some stuff here to make it work for me. I use cypress to elevate the hives on the plywood and treated lumber beneath so I'm going to just coat the top and sides of the plywood. I'll have to look into an inexpensive source for wax. Since I lease my bees out in winter, this is my "repair and get ready" season; I'll start removing the old rotten pallet tops tomorrow!


----------



## Keith Jarrett

Chip Euliss said:


> . I'll have to look into an inexpensive source for wax. Since I lease my bees out in winter,


Chip, I can't remember the name but, the place was in Los Angles,CA do a search under candle wax in that general location, maybe bring the wax back with the bees.


----------



## Chip Euliss

Thanks Keith. I'll follow-up. Chip


----------



## Keith Jarrett

Chip, a few more pics,
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s35/CNHoney/100_1584.jpg
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s35/CNHoney/100_1587-1.jpg
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s35/CNHoney/100_1585.jpg
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s35/CNHoney/100_2271.jpg


----------



## Chip Euliss

The pics help. There's a guy in town who could build something that will work. Started looking for candle scrap and found that were scented. Think the scent would affect the bees in any way? I was hoping for just plain old wax without scent


----------



## gmcharlie

Any of you guys ever try the plastic pallets?? there are several versions. but where I am at pallets only last a year or maybe two and the bottom is rotten. thinking on trying some plastic this spring.


----------



## Mtn. Bee

Keith,
Here is the pics of my pallet/hive box wax dipping tank, decided to go with steel instead of SS to save on cost since it is wax coated anyways! Also have steel channel welded on bottom for my forks to fit in for easy moving of tank and I plan on insulating like you did, great idea! 
Tank is 42"x42"x18"


http://i1305.photobucket.com/albums/s545/mike_hicks3/0412021830b_zps0f2bd665.jpg

http://i1305.photobucket.com/albums/s545/mike_hicks3/0412021830a_zps3c73d4d2.jpg

http://i1305.photobucket.com/albums/s545/mike_hicks3/0412021830_zps39375d36.jpg

http://i1305.photobucket.com/albums/s545/mike_hicks3/0412021829_zps0645034c.jpg

http://i1305.photobucket.com/albums/s545/mike_hicks3/picture0018_zpsefcce116.jpg


----------



## soupcan

Menards still sells 1x6 treated lumber.
I have heard that a bunch of all this construction " stuff " is a getting shipped back east at a record pace!
Even with using treated lumber every thing still gets dipped in the tank & left to dry for a good many weeks before use.


----------



## mroark

I don't mean to resurrect a year old thread but I am having trouble finding wax for that price. Any of you wax dippers care to share? Oh and Keith, how deep do you keep the wax in your tank? What are the dimensions of the tank?


----------



## johng

jim lyon said:


> That should do it. Just make sure that they fit inside the clips so they "nest" properly.


Ugh!! Now I understand why my pallets don't stack right when I stack them up empty. This is one of those mistakes you make when you don't have a chance to work with a commercial beek before you get started on your own. Growing pains. I guess its a good thing I put them together with screws it should not be too big of a deal to move the bottom runners a little.


----------



## Sadler91

johng said:


> Ugh!! Now I understand why my pallets don't stack right when I stack them up empty. This is one of those mistakes you make when you don't have a chance to work with a commercial beek before you get started on your own. Growing pains. I guess its a good thing I put them together with screws it should not be too big of a deal to move the bottom runners a little.


Recess your bottom runners about 5 inches from the end of the pallet.


----------



## johng

Thanks Colby that worked perfect.


----------



## Beekkirk

Whats the reasoning for a 47" length instead of 48"?


----------



## Fusion_power

I know this is an older thread, but it made me curious about the feasibility of designing lighter weight hives in order to get more colonies on a truck to ship to almonds. The general range for a truck load of bees is about 400 colonies. Using materials lighter than wood and designing a custom hive, it should be possible to reduce hive weight about 20% plus there would be a benefit from better space utilization. This would permit an additional 200 colonies of bees to be shipped in a single load.

So has anyone looked into the logistics of using lighter weight construction materials?


----------



## D Coates

Fusion_power said:


> So has anyone looked into the logistics of using lighter weight construction materials?



http://www.irishbeekeeping4you.info/html/irish_beehives_special.html Everything has it's pro's and con's.


----------



## Brian Suchan

Fusion_power said:


> I know this is an older thread, but it made me curious about the feasibility of designing lighter weight hives in order to get more colonies on a truck to ship to almonds. The general range for a truck load of bees is about 400 colonies. Using materials lighter than wood and designing a custom hive, it should be possible to reduce hive weight about 20% plus there would be a benefit from better space utilization. This would permit an additional 200 colonies of bees to be shipped in a single load.
> 
> So has anyone looked into the logistics of using lighter weight construction materials?


20% savings in box weight will not amount to 50% increase or 200 more doubles on a truckload??


----------



## jim lyon

Fusion_power said:


> I know this is an older thread, but it made me curious about the feasibility of designing lighter weight hives in order to get more colonies on a truck to ship to almonds. The general range for a truck load of bees is about 400 colonies. Using materials lighter than wood and designing a custom hive, it should be possible to reduce hive weight about 20% plus there would be a benefit from better space utilization. This would permit an additional 200 colonies of bees to be shipped in a single load.
> 
> So has anyone looked into the logistics of using lighter weight construction materials?


I guess I haven't seriously considered anything other than wood. If there is a material out there that would be cost effective and durable enough to stand up to a careless forklift operator and the extreme pressure exerted by large nylon straps that secure the load, I am all ears. You are quite right, though, every pound that might be saved translates directly to additional carrying capacity and the resulting dollars a given load might gross. In the right scenario your best "bang for the buck" is to ship the hives a little on the light side and do supplemental feeding as needed at the destination but this isn't always workable.


----------



## Fusion_power

Take this to the extreme and you would have something like a pollinator unit which would be a formed polyisocyanurate container with wood strips for comb supports. Bees would be dumped into it along with a queen and 3 months later it would be shipped to a pollination location. This is the ultimate in cheap and portable... and disposable because it would be useless at the end of pollination. I have trouble with this concept because it is strictly throw away.

Jim, the problem - as you aptly put it - is that a material lighter than wood yet with similar durability and price would have to be used. The materials I know of that are lighter lose durability. Even using lighter wood is a problem since lighter weight wood is not as strong. A styrofoam hive for example would require an elaborate support system on the truck pretty much defeating the purpose of using styrofoam. Think of it as a shipping container full of styrofoam beehives. It could be done, but I don't think it could be made to meet all the other objectives required.

I also see a problem with the size and shape of a Langstroth hive. I don't see a way to get maximum compactness using Lang deep frames. There is one thing that would help. Using higher R value material for the sides would get brood laid all the way to the walls instead of leaving a frame on each side empty.

Jim, given your knowledge of shipping for pollination, how many total Langstroth deep frames would be in a colony? I see you mentioned shipping singles but that seems to be a problem. I see mention of shipping doubles, but that too seems to be an issue. How many frames of bees do you really need to be able to ship to get a good pollination colony?


----------



## Fusion_power

I found a solution that would get 840 colonies on a truck and still be within weight limits. The "pallets" would be tubular steel shipping cages. The hives would be formed polyisocyanurate with a thick UV tolerant plastic shell. This would drastically reduce per hive weight. Each "pallet" would hold 6 hives in a 2 X 3 layout. The configuration would put 140 colonies per layer with 6 total layers on the truck for a total of 840 colonies.

Langstroth frames can't be fitted to this type system, you would have to convert to Dadant depth 11 1/4 inch deep frames. Each hive on a pallet would be 20 inches square by 16 inches high external measurements including the pallet. There would be dramatic differences in management style required but there would also be advantages such as designing a feeder into the top of the hive.

The big advantage would be pollination fees which would go up to $126,000 collected per truck load calculated at 840 colonies with $150 fee per.

The underlying problems that had to be solved included how to increase the volume of each hive without sacrificing brood space or honey storage space. A standard Langstroth 10 frame box happens to be very inefficient when considered from this perspective. Each hive has to have two boxes to be a fully viable pollination unit. But when Dadant 11 1/4 inch deep frames are considered and put into a square hive, the numbers start to work. A square Dadant depth hive is 30% more space efficient than two Langstroth deeps. This enables the higher density. Then there is the weight problem. Put 840 wooden hives onto a truck and it would be way over the weight limit. But by using plastics, the weight of the hives can be cut nearly in half.

So tell me what you think, would it be worth the effort of converting everything you have into a modular hive system that permits 30% more hives per load? The cost would be about $84,000 per 840 hives or $100 per colony which does not include cost of bees to stock the hives. The hives should have a viable life span of about 20 years or a cost basis of $5 per year.


----------

