# Apiguard Treatment with Honey Flow



## JoshJames (Jun 12, 2009)

Hey guys, 

I'm looking at trying apiguard for the first time and so am curious as to why the label instructions say not to treat during a honey flow or when honey supers are on the hive? What's up with this? I thought this stuff was natural and not supposed to leave an residue!?!? How significantly is apiguard contaminating the honey(I couldn't find any reports)if at all? Or is this just another overly zealous labeling law? Thanks for any info


----------



## Noelle (Apr 26, 2009)

I don't have any hard facts or numbers on this but I treated my hives this spring and I can tell you from the moment you open the package you will know why you do not want to treat while the honey supers are on. My hives smelled for over a week after I took the treatments off. Stinky stuff. Do not ruin your supers and honey with it - you will be sorry.:no:


----------



## JoshJames (Jun 12, 2009)

Ok, I did find this article... http://www.epa.gov/pesticides/biopesticides/ingredients/tech_docs/brad_080402.pdf

I know the stuff is strong but am curious if there are commercial guys who have used it during a honey flow? Does it really "contaminate" the honey when extracted in a commercial operation? The article above says that Apiguard was treated during honey flows to test how much got in and if it was safe. They concluded that although the honey has more thymol, it was still considered a safe amount to eat. I mean this stuff comes from tyme and has been eaten by people since forever, so i'm just concerned if it will make my honey taste "funny" on a commercial level. Thanks all


----------



## BigDaddyDS (Aug 28, 2007)

(Did he just turn into a Troll?)

Aside from you trying to get someone to say that they knowingly contaminate their honey by using treatments not according to the label, Apiguard will make your honey taste like Listerine.

There's PLENTY of time left here in Michigan for you to do treatments, if you so choose. You'll be able to pull off your honey and still treat with Apiguard. Remember, you actually need cooler (moderate) weather for it to be used effectively. Too hot and it becomes TOO vaporous.

Just follow the directions...

DS


----------



## JoshJames (Jun 12, 2009)

Will do! Sheesh, just when you think naturals the silver bullet, bam! You realize it's still uphill no matter what. LOL.


----------



## Countryboy (Feb 15, 2009)

If mites are that bad that you feel you need to treat the hive while the honey supers are on, there are other methods that are safe for honey supers.

Put a frame of drone comb in the broodnest. Once it is capped, remove it from the hive. You will get rid of a lot of mites that way. Freeze the comb for 24 hours, and then give the frame back to the bees to clean up.


----------



## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Do what Countryboy says. 

Roland


----------



## Noelle (Apr 26, 2009)

I have the drone frames (not drawn out) but how do I get them into the hive? One per deep? or one per hive? What position do you recommend them in? I can't figure out do I take a honey/pollen frame or a brood frame out?

please advise


----------



## Countryboy (Feb 15, 2009)

As long as it is a strong colony, I would pull one of the outside honey/pollen frames and then put the drone frame in the center of the broodnest. That's the closest distance for the mites to come to, and will get drawn out and laid in right away. One comb per hive should be fine.

If the hive is weak, I wouldn't break up the broodnest. I would put the drone comb at the edge of the brood cluster. As long as you don't put it at the edge where the bees will want to use it for honey storage and the queen can lay in it is the main thing.

Just make sure you remove the frame before the drones emerge or your mite population will explode even worse. Even if it is bad weather, get in there and get it out.


----------



## Noelle (Apr 26, 2009)

thanks! As I recall from bee school it is 16 days from when it is capped to when you remove it. does this sound right to you? could I do it in 14 as in put it in on a sat remove it in 2 weeks? much easier to remember. Or is there some really good reason to wait the full 16 days?:s


----------



## Countryboy (Feb 15, 2009)

Drone cells are usually capped 10 days after the egg is laid. As soon as the cells are capped you can remove them. I wouldn't worry about the 2 day difference. Besides, you said it wasn't drawn out yet, and that can delay things a few days, and there is no guarantee the queen is going to lay in the frame the moment you give it to them.

I would check the frame at the 2 week mark. If a bunch of drone cells are capped, I would remove the frame. If there is still a bunch of uncapped larva, I would give it another week.

I think you will be more successful if you play it by ear, rather than going by calendar dates the bees may not be paying attention to.


----------



## Noelle (Apr 26, 2009)

Countryboy said:


> I think you will be more successful if you play it by ear, rather than going by calendar dates the bees may not be paying attention to.


I know, I know, everything about this beekeeping is instinct - tough for a newbee like me as I haven't developed instinct yet. I keep hoping for some rules to live by and some things that I can put on my calendar or to do list. It just doesn't seem to work that way. 

thanks for clearing up the time line - I had the numbers wrong for sure.


----------



## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

One of the major reasons for not treating with supers on the hive is that the Apiguard gel is dosed according to label directions.
You want the material to work in less cubic feet of space.
Regards,
Ernie


----------



## Buzz V (Jul 28, 2006)

Before a pesticide is registered with EPA, research must vaidate that there is a "reasonable certainty of no harm" to be caused when used according to label directions. Any pesticide which will be labeled for use around food must never exceed a safe level (in parts per million) which is set by EPA and called a "food tolerance" level.
The manufacturer of the Apiguard can only guarantee that the ppm of the active ingredient will stay below the food tolerance level if the Apiguard is out of the hive when you have honey suypers on.
This is a food safety issue.


----------



## Ron Young (Aug 16, 2006)

I have a question on Apiguard, having never read up on it or anything, Is it simply a high concentration of Thymol (an essential oil)? And if so, is this something that biological beekeepers would use, or is this too close to a chemical?


----------



## Noelle (Apr 26, 2009)

good question! my bee mentor told me it was "organic", but an organic beekeeper nearby was horrified when I said that and said "no way". I am totally confused by it too.:scratch:

anyone know the answer to this?


----------



## Ron Young (Aug 16, 2006)

Same here, I have a mentor that has been a tremendous help to me, and he uses food grade mineral oil and thymol in a fogger for mites. I mentioned Apiguard and he said "I do not use any of those chemical treatments". 

Looking for some information on this.


----------



## rainesridgefarm (Sep 4, 2001)

A couple of things. As a commercial beekeeper I am not going to treat with supers on, I can not risk losing my whole crop. I can not put in and take out 500+ drone combs and freeze them the cost of gas and labor would prohibit it. Apigard vaporizes to desicate the mites and your uncapped honey will absorbe those vapors giving it a listerin taste. 

Organic or not. It is thymol based product but it is not considered organic since it does not come from a certified organic source. It is considered a natrual treatment since it is not synthetic chemical based.


----------



## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Certified organic beekeepers in the EU are allowed to use Apiguard and still maintain their organic certification.

Ron, the mainactive ingredient in Apiguard is thymol. I believe their is also some menthol and camphor. Perhaps it's time for a new mentor.

Jean-Marc


----------



## Ron Young (Aug 16, 2006)

He is really good and seems to have great success on beekeeping, cut outs, trap outs, queen rearing, and all. He was just not familiar with this product, and sugested that I post here to see what answers I got. He also wants to have manufacturer comments and then me post them on our couty forum. 
But as far as a new mentor, he has not led me astray on anything. We started my first hive from a cut out on August 22nd. The main flow here is two months gone at this point. The following spring, we did a split, added a deep to each one, and harvested honey that year. So I think I will keep my mentor.


----------



## pahvantpiper (Apr 25, 2006)

I've talked to a few beekeepers about Apiguard and they mistook it for Apistan. I wonder if that's possible.


----------

