# migrating/pollination



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

michael-bees said:


> What is the minimum number of hives needed to make migrating and searching for pollination deals worth the effort. I am sure this is different for everyone, but just wondering what the number is for the people who are doing it .


It seems like you should expect as many answers as there are personal circumstances which would fit your question. So, here's my personalized answer. Maybe that's what you are looking for.

I started taking my bees to SC, about 18 years ago, when I figured that I would spend more money buying bees to replace my winterloss than I would in expenses going south and north and staying in SC for 6 weeks every spring. I didn't know of many reliable sources of nucs at that time and didn't have the capital to spend on them. I did, and do, have good credit w/ credit card companies.

I started going south w/ less than 100 colonies. Slowly built up to a tractor trailer load and what I could get on my flatbed. Drpped down to half a semi and am now back to a full semi and the flatbed.

As far as pollination is concerned, I deliver as few as 2 and as many as 400. My migrating for pollination is when I bring the bees back north in May to orchards in the Champlain Valley.

I hope this is what you are after in an answer.

Are you thinking of migrating w/ your bees?


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## 67630 (Jul 17, 2008)

That is the type of answer I was hoping for, thanks. Yes my goal is to migrate.


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

The only migration we do is taking our bees to California for almonds, the other half year we manage for honey. Our biggest expense in migrating is shipping so we think in terms of truck loads, semi trucks. Loading the trucks as full as possible, with anywhere from 480 to 512, keeps the cost per colony down.  Some beeks heading west share semis to pool that expense. So shipping is figured by the semi, but if we want to work on the bees while they are in California it is more efficient to stay out there for more than one truckload, as it costs us the same to drive out there and back for one load or for five. 
As Mark stated, everyone will have a different answer, based on number of hives, payment, distance, time of year, etc. 
You need to do the math taking into account all the variables, adjusting them until you get something that works for your particular situation. It could be as simple as moving bees into the pumpkin patch 10 miles from you or as complicated as being on the road almost year round. Full time migrator/pollinators have a complicated set of calculations because they are scheduling stops for multiple crops, some of which might not even pay.
Sheri


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

Bees from my area to Calf last year ran about 3k per semi load one way. Like Sheri said the smaller operators usually piggy back on the larger guys to split up expenses and it helps the bigger guys go into Calf. with more bees. We inspect hives before they ship to make sure they are good enough and usually want about 100 hives to make it worthwhile to add to the shipments. If your hives are not up to par, they won't be accepted, mainly because the main guys rep is on the line and Calf. has really stepped up checking colonies since the prices have gone up.


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## Trevor Mansell (Jan 16, 2005)

michael-bees said:


> What is the minimum number of hives needed to make migrating and searching for pollination deals worth the effort. I am sure this is different for everyone, but just wondering what the number is for the people who are doing it .


You should really try to get one solid load of bees. Pollination is well worth it .


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## 67630 (Jul 17, 2008)

Full truckload is the plan but I dont have enough hives yet, still working on the first 100. Full load is approx 500 correct? My goal is for 2 years down the road. I would appreciate any advice anyone has. thanks.


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

Depending on the configuration (singles, story and a half, or double deeps), and how heavy they are, you can get anywhere from low 400s to mid 500s on a load.
Many beeks that do more localized pollination do not use semis but move their colonies with their own flatbeds and sometimes trailers. The regionals going into cranberries seldom use rented semis. They often haul them and place them in the bogs usually at night with their own loaders, sleep at home in the daytime, then haul another load the next night. Depending on how far the contract is, even small loads can be cost effective. With the prices of fuel, I would think contracts close to home would be nice to have.
Sheri


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## Trevor Mansell (Jan 16, 2005)

Sheri
I thought you guys didnt want to go to the cranberries?


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

Trevor Mansell said:


> Sheri
> I thought you guys didnt want to go to the cranberries?


Nah, we don't, we usually make too much honey during that time to risk it, but that is how some of the folks we know that DO go in do it. 
Of course, this year might just be the year that cranberries paid better, with the rain washing everything out on such a regular basis.
Sheri


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

JohnK and Sheri said:


> Depending on the configuration (singles, story and a half, or double deeps), and how heavy they are, you can get anywhere from low 400s to mid 500s on a load.Sheri


Singels..... 
I used to take a few loads from the Dakota's in singles, 16 rows 768 or 17 rows 816. Weight is a factor, singels.... starving or plugged.


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

Keith Jarrett said:


> Singels.....
> I used to take a few loads from the Dakota's in singles, 16 rows 768 or 17 rows 816. Weight is a factor, singels.... starving or plugged.


Holy Moly, Keith, that is a lot of bees. Must have shipped pretty light......or dodged the scales. 
Yeah, we considered singles but like you said, there is not enough leeway between starving and getting plugged up, so we stick with story and a half. Plus many growers are reluctant to go with singles.
Sheri


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

JohnK and Sheri said:


> Holy Moly,
> Sheri


http://s148.photobucket.com/albums/s35/CNHoney/?action=view&current=beetruck001.jpg


Ya Holy ------,

Ya it use to be madess around here a few years ago, 3000-4000 for one person is tooooo much.

Those singles are not very forgiving.

Trucks that don't show up on time, bee beards that grow by the hour.
I don't miss it at all.


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## high rate of speed (Jan 4, 2008)

I should have written a book.or became a bus driver.lol.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*Pallet dimentions.*

Keith,
Do uou use a 4" gap between the back of the hives?
regards,
Ernie


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

BEES4U said:


> Keith,
> Do uou use a 4" gap between the back of the hives?
> regards,
> Ernie


Ernie, on my own hives I beleive it's more than that, 33x48 pallets.

I built a graber so one person can grab hives so to even up pallets, it works best when there is plenty of room behind the hives.
Keith


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## Dan Williamson (Apr 6, 2004)

Keith Jarrett said:


> Ernie, on my own hives I beleive it's more than that, 33x48 pallets.
> 
> I built a graber so one person can grab hives so to even up pallets, it works best when there is plenty of room behind the hives.
> Keith


Keith... can you explaine the "graber"?


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Dan Williamson said:


> Keith... can you explaine the "graber"?


Dan,

It works like a ice block graber or battery graber. It ables you to grab a double deep and move it to another pallet without bending over and bear hugging the hive to move it.It works with one or two persons. I work by myself so this helps me move hives around the yard easly.
A picture is worth a thousand words, I will see if I can post one.


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## Action (Jan 8, 2005)

*grabber*

And it works sweet!


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## Action (Jan 8, 2005)

*grabber*

And it works sweet!
Jack


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## high rate of speed (Jan 4, 2008)

Anything with a handle is manual.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

high rate of speed said:


> Anything with a handle is manual.


And..... Anything without is a.........


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## high rate of speed (Jan 4, 2008)

And anything without isnt beekeeping.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

high rate of speed said:


> And anything without isnt beekeeping.


Ok Manual. lol


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## high rate of speed (Jan 4, 2008)

Thats the sad part about our industry.Besides forklifts and some automated extracting,our job is all about manual.:


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## Dan Williamson (Apr 6, 2004)

Keith Jarrett said:


> Dan,
> 
> It works like a ice block graber or battery graber. It ables you to grab a double deep and move it to another pallet without bending over and bear hugging the hive to move it.It works with one or two persons. I work by myself so this helps me move hives around the yard easly.
> A picture is worth a thousand words, I will see if I can post one.


I would love to see it. I manhandled hives this past pollinating season and it nearly killed me. Standing in 5" of water with beards on the front of hives and them PO'ed as I try to bend over and pick them up to move them was not my idea of fun. I gotta come up with a better way to work by myself.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*The #. Here is a start.*

You will need a good fork lift with side shift and a truck.
You will need to gather data on the cost per unit of use/production for both items.
Regards,
Ernie Lucas Apiaries


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

BEES4U said:


> You will need a good fork lift with side shift and a truck.
> You will need to gather data on the cost per unit of use/production for both items.
> Regards,
> Ernie Lucas Apiaries


Sideshift is nice. But I know only one of about a dozen comm. beekeepers who has one. I think Hackenberg has it on his Bobcat. One can sideshift by skidding.


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## Flyer Jim (Apr 22, 2004)

*Side shift*

My boom has side shift......if you push hard enough.


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

Most commercial outfits we know have either a Swinger or Hummerbee. Both have standard side shift.
Sheri


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

*Flyer Jim*

Side Shift???

I guess they mean when your buddy had to tie off the end of the boom to help you swing that first row. And then the second row too. 

If you don't know what I'm talking about sorry


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## Flyer Jim (Apr 22, 2004)

Tom, I know what you mean. Where I live it's hard to find a flat spot big enough to check your oil, much less unload a load of bees.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*Hive loading*

So now you know why the bee boom has the metal loop on the end of the boom.
I carried a shovel and dug leveling ramps for my old 1954 International with a home made boom.
For those who do not know what we are talking about a boom truck must be somewhat level in two directions. ( front to back & side to side.)
Boom loading is so much fun when you have a wind too. 
*A side shift is a must have item.*

Regards,
Ernie


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

BEES4U said:


> For those who do not know
> Regards,
> Ernie


Ya, for those who don't know.......

Build in, a self leveling hyd micro switch system. You just have to be smarter than the boom.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*Build in, a self leveling hyd micro switch system. You just have to be smarter than t*

You must mean those pretty flashing lights on a Payne, pain, boom.
Ernie


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

BEES4U said:


> You must mean those pretty flashing lights on a Payne, pain, boom.
> Ernie


No... no payne


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

I never could quite figure those Payne lights out. (anyone know?) I 'm using one on a 1 ton but just level it by guessing. 
It sure is fun loading in a strong wind.
We have an old forklift with side shift.I don't think I could load anything without it. It also has "forward launch". Found that one accidentally the other night!
---Mike


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

*Bee booms*

Yeah the Paynes were the Caddilacs weren't they? My electric loaders all had side to side, fore&aft plus raise & lower headframe. And if something goes wrong, you can always unload by hand!


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*I never could quite figure those Payne lights out. (anyone know?)*

Try to stop the red light from blinking and get the boom into the green light.
It is good on paper. But, after a while when you are tired and you have been stung a few times it becomes mentally challanging to say the least.

I have not brought up the subject of cables, electric cord reels, and the up and down push buttons.

Ernie


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## high rate of speed (Jan 4, 2008)

The only sideshift one needs is from one hive to another.


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