# difference between wedge top and groove top divided frames?



## Billboard (Dec 28, 2014)

I'm also going foundation less you will want the top groove holes on the side. You want the one with the little wood strip that comes out.


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## melissa honeybee (Jan 21, 2015)

thanks
:banana:


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## Billboard (Dec 28, 2014)

You want this one.http://www.mannlakeltd.com/beekeepi...wedge-top-and-groove-bottom-with-holes-9.html


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## Billboard (Dec 28, 2014)

If you go to Kelly bees they have a frame specificly for foundation less hives. Its a good frame too


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## Billboard (Dec 28, 2014)

Here's Kelly bees frames. The one you want has a triangle wedge on the top. http://www.kelleybees.com/Shop/37/Hives-Components/Frames/4422/Unassembled-Deep-Frames


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## Native Bee (Feb 28, 2014)

Yep kelleybees saves you from having to modify normal frames.


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## KGB (Jun 25, 2014)

You want the one with the little wood strip that comes out. 
That is wedge top bar. The wedge holds wax foundation in place.

Groove top bar has a groove in the underside of the top bar to receive foundation, generally used with plastic foundation and a grooved bottom bar as well.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

If you have a grooved frame, you break it out and rotate it 90 degrees and nail it back in. If you have a grooved top bar you put a strip of wood in the groove (jumbo craft sticks work). If you buy the foundationless frames from Kelley, you just put them together. They all work.


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## melissa honeybee (Jan 21, 2015)

so your saying need the wedge frames... ? these? http://www.mannlakeltd.com/beekeeping-supplies/product/FR-901.html or these... http://shop.valleybeesupply.com/F200-Unassembled-9-1-8-Wedge-Top-Divided-BB-Frame-135-ea-F200.htm

whats the difference between these two?


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## Billboard (Dec 28, 2014)

The one from valley bee looks good. It looks like it has the remove able strip. You take that strip out and put it back in at 90 deg. Nail it, glue it, staple it. Or all. It will work fine. Its the same frame as the mann lake frame. Here watch this video from you tube he shows you how. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=38SPvuWvVkc


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## Billboard (Dec 28, 2014)

[The one from valley bee looks good. It looks like it has the remove able strip. You take that strip out and put it back in at 90 deg. Nail it, glue it, staple it. Or all. It will work fine. Its the same frame as the mann lake frame. Here watch this video from you tube he shows you how.http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=38SPvuWvVkc


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## Native Bee (Feb 28, 2014)

I must be missing something here. Why wouldn't someone just go with the kelleybees foundationless frames since they're already made for you? I was going to order some but maybe I'm missing something that would illustrate why they wouldn't be a better choice than any others that you would have to modify. :scratch:


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## Billboard (Dec 28, 2014)

Imo I believe she's looking at cost. Kelly's frames cost a bit more. The frame she's looking at cost $1.35 apiece and Kelly's are near $2 per frame. Correct me if I'm wrong. You are right Native bee it would be easier to use Kelly's frames. They are ready to go, just install.


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## Beregondo (Jun 21, 2011)

melissa honeybee said:


> so your saying need the wedge frames... ? these? http://www.mannlakeltd.com/beekeeping-supplies/product/FR-901.html or these... http://shop.valleybeesupply.com/F200-Unassembled-9-1-8-Wedge-Top-Divided-BB-Frame-135-ea-F200.htm
> 
> whats the difference between these two?


Either will work well.

The Mann Lake ones have a solid bottom board with a groove in the middle to keep the foundation sheet centered.

The Valley Bee ones have a slot all the way through the bottom bar.

Once the comb is drawn, the Valley Bee one leaves a bit of tht slot unfilled on bottom and small hive beetles can hide there.
The Mann Lake ones are smooth and solid on the very bottom, no place for hiding there.

They also cost a little less... though that's before shipping.

If you don't have SHB there, I'd get whichever one is less expensive after shipping is added on.


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## KGB (Jun 25, 2014)

so your saying need the wedge frames... ?
When you have wedge top bar frames already, that is how you convert to foundationless without buying new equipment-you turn the wedge on edge and do not put in foundation. When you already own grooved top bars you give them a guide-starter strip of foundation or pop cycle stick.

Why wouldn't someone just go with the kelleybees foundationless frames since they're already made for you?
They aforementioned "modifications" can be done and attempt foundationless, and if you don't like the way that's going, then use those same frames as they are intended with that frame's correct type of foundation. Ex. groove top/groove bottom with a pop cycle stick or starter strip of foundation, can be used with a full sheet of foundation if you change your mind/want to try new things.
However, Kelly F frames are permanently foundationless...


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

KGB hit it... I would go with wedge top, you can use them with foundation or starter strips etc... Also, if you don't have wedge top, just melt some bees wax and fill the groove in the top bar, instant guide for the bees.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I must be missing something here. Why wouldn't someone just go with the kelleybees foundationless frames since they're already made for you?

Well, the old Kelley foundationless (and perhaps the current ones) have a solid bottom which eliminates the groove for the SHB to hide in... The new ones, as I understand, have grooves in the end bars though... The point is you have choices. Buying frames along with other things on an order that has free shipping may save money over ordering things from several places...


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## melissa honeybee (Jan 21, 2015)

thank you everyone. I understand now. I went with valley bee because I was already getting free shipping with my order. Thanks!!!!!!!!!


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