# BeeThinking out of business, morphing into BeeBuild.com



## minz

I see the Portland Metro bee club and the Portland Urban group says that Bee thinking Portland is pretty much going under and looking to sell out the last of their inventory the next couple of weeks. Too bad but maybe they will give some deals on their showroom stock.


----------



## estreya

*Re: BeeThinking on Shark Tank tonight at 9 PM ET*

I guess this explains why the order i placed at the beginning of March was never delivered (although it doesn't explain why i haven't been able to get a call back whenever i've attempted to follow-up on that order).


----------



## ruthiesbees

*Re: BeeThinking on Shark Tank tonight at 9 PM ET*



minz said:


> I see the Portland Metro bee club and the Portland Urban group says that Bee thinking Portland is pretty much going under and looking to sell out the last of their inventory the next couple of weeks. Too bad but maybe they will give some deals on their showroom stock.


Any reason given as to Why the are going out of business?


----------



## CliveW

*Re: BeeThinking on Shark Tank tonight at 9 PM ET*



minz said:


> I see the Portland Metro bee club and the Portland Urban group says that Bee thinking Portland is pretty much going under and looking to sell out the last of their inventory the next couple of weeks. Too bad but maybe they will give some deals on their showroom stock.


That's unfortunate. I have previously ordered Bee Thinking equipment through PerfectBee. They are a Bee Thinking dealer, I guess (I go to PerfectBee their since I learned about them first and their customer service and prices are excellent). I have enjoyed the products (good quality) but just noticed that PerfectBee seems to have removed all Bee Thinking products from their own store. They are also a Brushy Mountain dealer, though, so they are still up and running.

Meanwhile, the Bee Thinking site still seems to be taking orders with no hints of any issues. I hope no one is going to get burnt by this (new customers placing orders that don't get fulfilled).


----------



## estreya

*Re: BeeThinking on Shark Tank tonight at 9 PM ET*



CliveW said:


> Meanwhile, the Bee Thinking site still seems to be taking orders with no hints of any issues. I hope no one is going to get burnt by this (new customers placing orders that don't get fulfilled).


I've been a loyal customer for many years, but the only thing i'm getting from them now is radio silence. I see no reason why they'd treat their "new customers" any better than they're treating their old ones.


----------



## psm1212

*Re: BeeThinking on Shark Tank tonight at 9 PM ET*



ruthiesbees said:


> Any reason given as to Why the are going out of business?


No reason given, but I have some speculation. I never understood what was necessarily special or different about any product they made. Certainly a better quality of wood than the big players in the market. But is there a real demand for great quality woodware? A painted box of knotted pine will last over a decade. 

Besides the quality of wood, what was new, innovative or special about anything they did?


----------



## Rader Sidetrack

*Re: BeeThinking on Shark Tank tonight at 9 PM ET*

Since we are _speculating_ ... here's mine ... 

Bee Thinking was the 'contracted' USA manufacturer/distributor of boxes for hive bodies to go with Flow frame/hives per various reports. Perhaps that ramp up/manufacturing/ ramp down for Flow didn't go as smoothly or as profitably for Bee Thinking as they had projected. 

Also, the now storefront presence of Brushy Mtn (via Ruhl Be Supply) in the Portland area market isn't likely to have had a positive impact upon Bee Thinking. Brushy has significant presence in the US market and their volume purchasing is quite capable of being a disruptive force in the Portland market. Note that in addition to the significant market population living on the Oregon side, the 0% Oregon sales tax vs the 8.4% sales tax on the Washington side of the border make the Portland side merchants a more significant force than they would be with an equal sales tax situation.


----------



## minz

*Re: BeeThinking on Shark Tank tonight at 9 PM ET*

here is what is posted:
I found this in a post on PUB's Facebook page. It's a confirmation of sorts from Matt Reed owner of Bee Thinking:
"We're doing everything we can to avoid closing, but it may be too late at this point. Some major financial challenges in the last year and a half are so far proving too great to overcome. If we can salvage it, we will, but our first priority has been to get people bees. This is why we reached out to Brushy/Ruhl to come up with a solution."


----------



## minz

*Re: BeeThinking on Shark Tank tonight at 9 PM ET*

Here is a response about them trying to get people their bees:
Matt Reed We've already reached out to the 80 who were scheduled to pick up this past weekend. The 200 or so who are scheduled to pick up next week we'll be reaching out to today/tomorrow. Ruhl/Brushy will be taking over and we'll communicate the plan via e-mail and phone. We're doing everything we can to ensure everyone still gets bees, regardless of what happens to Bee Thinking.


----------



## minz

*Re: BeeThinking on Shark Tank tonight at 9 PM ET*

Maybe I should remove the previous posts since I found one from the owner himself describing the situation. Sorry to clog the thread, I am not much of a FB person so have not been following it. here is a cut and paste:
Matt Reed
May 12 at 11:09pm
With profound sadness I must announce that Bee Thinking will almost certainly close in the next week. We've given everything to avoid this, and we've not given up entirely yet, but we don't see another path at this point, so we're preparing for the worst. 
Thanks to all who've supported us for almost 9 years as we've grown from our garage to almost 50 employees manufacturing thousands of beehives and promoting natural beekeeping throughout the world. Thanks also to our amazing employees who've stuck with us through a tumultuous year -- we couldn't have made it this far without you.
Our retail store will be open at least through the weekend with everything 40% off. Mead is 30% off. We have a lot of pine Langstroth equipment, jackets, gloves, tools, brushes, gifts, mead. We are completely out of Warre and Top Bar Hive woodenware.


----------



## CliveW

*Re: BeeThinking on Shark Tank tonight at 9 PM ET*

It's frustrating to me that Bee Thinking, which has pretty much ceased to do business and had a big closing down sale over the weekend at their store in Portland, continues to operate their web site, taking money from people with no plans to send products. I believe they told people to reach out to their credit card companies for a chargeback, because they won't be offering refunds. That's very frustrating and, with no hint whatsoever on their web site of the situation, I suspect a good number of people are getting burned.

It would take under 10 mins to bring that site down (and even less to at least put a notice on there). They announced last week they were going out of business but did so only in a small Facebook group, as has been noted here.


----------



## estreya

*Re: BeeThinking on Shark Tank tonight at 9 PM ET*

I agree, CliveW. It's also frustrating that they're apparently selling items i paid for but never received to other people in some sort of "going out of business" sale. Some of the items i never received (but paid for months ago) are still listed as available on their web site, so presumably, they're still "in stock" and are in effect being sold twice. Combine that with the chargeback notice and the whole thing smacks of theft and credit card fraud. But i'm just speculating ...


----------



## jooky

*Re: BeeThinking on Shark Tank tonight at 9 PM ET*

so they went from being on shark tank to closing shop in a few months?


----------



## CliveW

*Re: BeeThinking on Shark Tank tonight at 9 PM ET*

No, they were on Shark Tank two years ago. Even though the sharks declined, they were featured a year or so later in the follow up program, since Daymond John had an interest and installed a significant number of their hives in his garden.

I don't think they will be appearing again though.


----------



## OffordScott

*BeeThinking is holding out for an answer from their bank*

I saw this on a review on BeeThinking's Facebook page:

"Ariel, I appreciate this post. We have not officially announced anything because we've been holding out hope we can get a deal worked out between our bank and our investors as quickly as possible. This has taken many weeks longer than we thought it would. If it does work out, we may be able to resume operations, get our staff back, and get orders back out, along with refunds. We don't have any staff left, as you've mentioned, and right now we're simply trying to keep what's left of the ship afloat as long as possible as we wait for the bank. We can't currently enter our warehouse to fulfill orders, otherwise we would be. As I've had to let go over 45 employees I cared for deeply in the last month, I'm doing my best to respond to as many calls and e-mails as I possibly can while paying critical bills that will enable the company to resume operations as quickly as possible -- this is the only way we'll be able to get orders out or refunds. Our website is not taking more orders as everything is marked out of stock. We never took money for orders we didn't think we were going to be able to fill, as we thought our solution would come through more quickly. Now we're stuck in a terrible position for everyone involved, with no real solution until the bank budges."

https://www.facebook.com/ariel.young.735/posts/10203205721181332:0


----------



## BadBeeKeeper

*Re: BeeThinking is holding out for an answer from their bank*



> ...we've been holding out hope we can get a deal worked out between our bank and our investors as quickly as possible.


Translation: "We're [spitting] into the wind."



> This has taken many weeks longer than we thought it would. If it does work out, we may be able to resume operations, get our staff back, and get orders back out, along with refunds. We don't have any staff left, as you've mentioned, and right now we're simply trying to keep what's left of the ship afloat as long as possible as we wait for the bank.


Translation: "We know it's hopeless, but we want people to think that we still have a chance so that they will have a longer period to get used to the idea that they won't be getting their money back, and pass the blame on to the bank and make it their fault so they won't be too angry with us."



> We can't currently enter our warehouse to fulfill orders, otherwise we would be.


Death knell. Warehouse/stock seized and locked out. Auction to benefit secured creditors in the works.



> ...I'm doing my best to respond to as many calls and e-mails as I possibly can while paying critical bills that will enable the company to resume operations as quickly as possible -- this is the only way we'll be able to get orders out or refunds.


Delusional and/or another attempt to soften the blow for those who are getting screwed.



> ...We never took money for orders we didn't think we were going to be able to fill, as we thought our solution would come through more quickly.


Weasel words. Information in this thread indicates money taken and product not delivered, but they want people to think that they had no clue that they wouldn't be able to deliver. The only conclusions that can be reached are that they are either lying or stupid, neither is good.



> Now we're stuck in a terrible position for everyone involved, with no real solution until the bank budges."


Another attempt to foist blame onto "the bank". If people get screwed it's the bank's fault for not bailing them out.

('Translations' and my opinions based on years of experience reading company PR while working in concert with the SEC to shut down stock frauds.)

Stick a fork in it, it's done...unless somebody can pull a miracle out of his butt and convince an 'angel' to float them a loan...but I doubt the odds of that happening are very good.


----------



## OffordScott

*Re: BeeThinking going out of business*

This article talks about the Flow Hive / BeeThinking deal http://www.bizjournals.com/portland...e-with-the-bee-thinking-family-hotos.amp.html

A year ago:

"Now, with an order for 65,000 hives from an Australian company called Flow Hive, Bee Thinking is investing $500,000 in new equipment as a supplement to the overworked mill that fabricates its products."


----------



## Barry

*Re: BeeThinking going out of business*

I wondered if there wasn't a connection between this business crises and Flow hive.


----------



## BadBeeKeeper

*Re: BeeThinking going out of business*



OffordScott said:


> This article talks about the Flow Hive / BeeThinking deal http://www.bizjournals.com/portland...e-with-the-bee-thinking-family-hotos.amp.html
> 
> A year ago:
> 
> "Now, with an order for 65,000 hives from an Australian company called Flow Hive, Bee Thinking is investing $500,000 in new equipment as a supplement to the overworked mill that fabricates its products."


I can see how that all unfolded- caught up in the flow hive hype, they mortgaged themselves to the hilt, thinking it would be a smashing success and counting on repeat orders to pay the note. I have to wonder what the size of the order was this year...or if there even was one.

Chinese copies are available on ebay for a third of the price, and the honeyflow.com.au web page boasts that the hives are "Proudly Made In Australia"...I'm guessing that there was no repeat order, or a minimal one, which left that expensive equipment sitting idle with insufficient production to cover the note. I don't see any official documentation of current sales figures (after a cursory search).

Another victim of the hype. The Flow Hive people got a sweet deal (pun intended)- someone else went on the hook for a half million dollars of production equipment, leaving them with no risk associated with the plant. The Sharks would have been smarter, the Bee Thinking people _should have been_ smarter.

What's ironic, is that the linked article was posted under the 'Sustainable Business' heading.


----------



## DerTiefster

*Re: BeeThinking going out of business*

The issue with the bank is risk. If the bank sees the security for the secured loan going to less than the loan, they can push the dissolution button (there are limits and defenses, but I'm not conversant with them). Or they can risk their depositors money and let the operating concern continue to operate on the theory that the business may pull out of bankruptcy back into "going concern" territory. At the 99% threshold, the bank may lose essentially nothing by dissolving the company and forcing liquidation. But the company owners and employees lose big. There is no incentive for the bank to take on risk. If they are under water already and may recover entirely, it becomes their judgement call. So, as I see it, there can be conditions under which a bank may "fail to act benevolently." They have no obligation to benevolence. But they are then not a community bank, with the employees and owners among their depositors. But, oh!, with non-local banks, there is no longer community banking pretty much anywhere. And so "risk aversion" wins.

I'm not saying this is bad. I'm just sharing my observations. I may be wrong. I have a habit that way.


----------



## BadBeeKeeper

*Re: BeeThinking going out of business*

I don't think you're wrong. A bank's primary fiduciary responsibilities are to the depositors and stockholders. Acting contrary to those responsibilities could be considered malfeasance.


----------



## cg03026

*Re: BeeThinking going out of business*

It is May 23, 2017 at noon CDT.
I find it despicable that even as of the past few minutes the phone number at Bee Thinking (877-325-2221) answers with,

"Hello Bee Thinkers.
Due to peak volume all of our wonderful agents are currently on the line.
We are able to respond to most inquiries in 36 - 48 hours..."
and it goes on with more blather about how the sky is blue, blah, blah, blah. How much they like us, blah, blah, blah.


----------



## CliveW

*Re: BeeThinking going out of business*

It would take well under 5 mins to change their site that alerted their visitors to the situation. As far as I am aware, they have only announced this on a very locally-focused Facebook group (Portland Urban Beekeepers) and their own Facebook page. On their own Facebook page, the explanation was buried as a comment to one particular post - the vast majority of folks visiting their Facebook page would never see that, especially since they continue to advertise upcoming events.

If the web page takes 10 mins to update, posting an update to their Facebook page is less than one minute (especially when they have already logged on to reply to a comment anyway!). I believe they are intentionally trying to keep this as quiet as possible, in case they make a "comeback".

I called Bee Thinking numerous times over the last year or so. Not ONCE did I ever get anyone pick up the phone - ever! I would guess I called 10-15 times in that year, wanting to ask about various things. I feel kinda silly now. They were always "busy focusing on customers at this busy time of year". Uh huh...

A company that has 50 people but can't be bothered to have even one of them pick up the phone is not a company that cares about its customers.


----------



## cg03026

*Re: BeeThinking going out of business*



CliveW said:


> It would take well under 5 mins to change their site that alerted their visitors to the situation. As far as I am aware, they have only announced this on a very locally-focused Facebook group (Portland Urban Beekeepers) and their own Facebook page. On their own Facebook page, the explanation was buried as a comment to one particular post - the vast majority of folks visiting their Facebook page would never see that, especially since they continue to advertise upcoming events.
> 
> If the web page takes 10 mins to update, posting an update to their Facebook page is less than one minute (especially when they have already logged on to reply to a comment anyway!). I believe they are intentionally trying to keep this as quiet as possible, in case they make a "comeback".
> 
> I called Bee Thinking numerous times over the last year or so. Not ONCE did I ever get anyone pick up the phone - ever! I would guess I called 10-15 times in that year, wanting to ask about various things. I feel kinda silly now. They were always "busy focusing on customers at this busy time of year". Uh huh...
> 
> A company that has 50 people but can't be bothered to have even one of them pick up the phone is not a company that cares about its customers.



Clive, that is very kind of you to suggest a "comeback." From my experience, there isn't a chance in God's creation that they will experience a comeback. Before I knew the (full) situation (48 hours ago when I knew definitively), I wrote to Emily Parker there (of course long gone by now), explaining that their lack of contact/lack of availability indicated a business that was "overextended, under capitalized, or had chosen to abandon the wooden ware part of their business in favor of something perceived as more profitable."

It would seem they are most interested in posting to Instagram, FB, and the like, meaningless pictures of bees and flowers and tidbit of "facts" about bees. And basically just plain old promoting themselves rather than producing product and caring for customers. They should become hobby beekeepers and post images to Instagram with their "wisdom" which always seems to lack scientific backing.

I won't use this blog post to discuss the merits or lack thereof of TBHs, but I will say that the *ONLY* reason I purchased that style equipment was to be able to continue as a hobby beekeeper after two back surgeries (the second one a fusion L4-L5-S1). TBHs, nor bees housed in them, in NO WAY appear to be superior to Langstroth equipment, and certainly not based on any scientific evidence I have seen. But yes my back thanks me. I did decide to go foundation-less, but added three more sides in hopes combs wouldn't be flopping all over the place when the frames were manipulated.


----------



## grantsbees

*Re: BeeThinking going out of business*

I ordered 2 Warre hives from them 2 years ago. The millwork was nice and I appreciated the cedar because I didn't need to paint. The copper roof was a nice touch. I really liked the top bar design with the guides. The bees only drew comb from the bars and no burr comb anywhere else. Pretty cool.

That being said, something about the company always seemed off. There was always something delayed or wrong or missing. And it got worse as time progressed. Oh well, there are other places to buy hives and components for people like me who have no woodwork skills.


----------



## estreya

*Re: BeeThinking going out of business*

Cg03026, those framed top bars are FANTASTIC! You do beautiful work, and i'm very glad you've found a way to take care of your back AND your bees ...

As for Bee Thinking, there's more i could add, but it would just be grist for the mill at this point. Suffice to say that if they DID somehow manage to reconstitute themselves, it makes no difference. I would never buy or order anything from them ever again. They've lost me. For good.


----------



## CliveW

*Re: BeeThinking going out of business*

Can I ask what a "framed top bar" is? Is this basically a full frame (with foundation) that will go into a Top Bar (if so, it could be "foundationed top bar", I guess ). EDIT: Sorry - was rushing and just saw what you mean by "framed top bar". Now, I'm curious - why doesn't everyone do this? 

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I, somewhat fortunately, ordered through PerfectBee, rather than directly with Bee Thinking (well, it wasn't like Bee Thinking really gave me the chance to buy off them, having never returned any calls!!). I have been very happy with PerfectBee because they communicate really well (often within minutes of reaching out). I guess they lost their supply for Warre and Top Bar hives when Bee Thinking went away but I just noticed they have a new Top Bar available now (wasn't there last week).

I use Langstroth but have been considering a Top Bar, for many of the same reasons as cg03026 (that back thing!). I may take a look at this one since it seems well-built: https://store.perfectbee.com/collections/top-bar-hives/products/top-bar-hive, though a little pricey.

Then again, I guess we're getting off topic! How / why did Top Bar come into this thread?


----------



## ruthiesbees

*Re: BeeThinking going out of business*

The topbar hives you all are looking at are way too expensive in my opinion. Sure, cedar is nice, but is it worth an extra $150 bucks? I get my topbar hive kits from Beeline apiary out of MI, shipped to me for $150 total. Love everything about them, and I add my own window, although they now have one with a window in half the hive. 

CliveW, if you are still wanting to use frames in your hive, look into a long langstroth. The management from a true topbar hive where the bars form the top of the hive differs just a bit from a Long Lang where there are still gaps between bars (and requires an inner cover in 3 sections). But making full 4 sided frames for a trapezoid shape topbar hive just doesn't make sense to me. Might as well get the full rectangle shape and do the long lang, foundationless if you'd like. (your frames ARE beautiful, cg03026)

My topbar hive are easier on my back and all my sore joints, but there is definitely less honey (but more bees) so it's all a matter of why you want to keep the bees as to the box shape that you put them in.


----------



## crabbcatjohn

*Re: BeeThinking going out of business*

I guess you get what you pay for. Personally i've bought things over and over again over the years trying to save money doing a fixer upper. So, like you Ruthie, i used to buy something cheap and work on it to make it better. I've found in my old age and to many unfinished projects that its better to just go ahead and spend a few dollars extra and buy something i don't have to work on...lol Thats why my hives are finished, ready for bees when you get them... As for Bee Thinking, over the past few years they have had lots of problems getting their products to their customers. Last year they were also few months behind. They were telling people their mill was behind in getting parts made.I know because they were referring their customers to me when peoples bees were coming in and they were still weeks off from getting parts to finish customers orders. I find it appalling that when you ordered a hive from them that only after you paid you were notified a few days later shipping time was few months... On my website i reflect current production/shipping times right on the front page. That way their is no let down and when you call, i personally answer the phone...
You have to give them one thing. They had a heck of a advertising budget and had the best website money could buy. John


----------



## ruthiesbees

*Re: BeeThinking going out of business*



crabbcatjohn said:


> I guess you get what you pay for. Personally i've bought things over and over again over the years trying to save money doing a fixer upper. So, like you Ruthie, i used to buy something cheap and work on it to make it better.


The kits I buy are in no way "cheap", and the first one I bought is going on 4 years with no signs of decay. Pine hives, just like yours, John. I do like to paint them festive colors so they become "garden art". It has a gabled metal roof, 19" topbars with anchored comb guides, screened bottom floor with slide out IPM board. I only choose to add the windows myself because I can do it for less than $10. Assembly on the kit is minimal, as in 18 screws for the hive and 4 nails for the roof. These are a nice way to ease into beekeeping. If someone wants to convert over to Langstroth equipment, the bars slip right in there, although most people that I help get started, love their topbar hives and stick with that kind of beekeeping.


----------



## crabbcatjohn

*Re: BeeThinking going out of business*

I have to apologize Ruth, my GF always criticizes me for using the word Cheap when I should say inexpensive. My bad, forgive me please. To clarify when i say you get what you pay for in this case i meant they offer an unfinished project which i'm good with. I have no problem with their product. Better value than Dadant in my opinion. I know you promote their product on the web so you must really like them. I did want to thank you for what you do on the top bar hive forums. I see you are always quick to help those in need of advice or console them when they loose their bees which is also the way i was mentored. John


----------



## cg03026

*Re: BeeThinking going out of business*



ruthiesbees said:


> The topbar hives you all are looking at are way too expensive in my opinion. Sure, cedar is nice, but is it worth an extra $150 bucks? I get my topbar hive kits from Beeline apiary out of MI, shipped to me for $150 total. Love everything about them, and I add my own window, although they now have one with a window in half the hive.
> 
> CliveW, if you are still wanting to use frames in your hive, look into a long langstroth. The management from a true topbar hive where the bars form the top of the hive differs just a bit from a Long Lang where there are still gaps between bars (and requires an inner cover in 3 sections). But making full 4 sided frames for a trapezoid shape topbar hive just doesn't make sense to me. Might as well get the full rectangle shape and do the long lang, foundationless if you'd like. (your frames ARE beautiful, cg03026)
> 
> My topbar hive are easier on my back and all my sore joints, but there is definitely less honey (but more bees) so it's all a matter of why you want to keep the bees as to the box shape that you put them in.


I agree with you about why bother with all the extra effort of crafting cuts on a 32 degree or whatever angle, etc., instead of a convenient 90 degrees. I only made the decision AFTER I made the decision to get the top bars and AFTER realizing that even in videos I've seen cautioning about the comb falling off, it fell off in the training video, or came loose at least and had to be "mushed" back in place. At 90 degrees inside the hive, when won't the comb be likely to sag.

So far, first year with TBH I find the issue with the comb being unattached on the sides and the bottom to be most cumbersome, so I moved forward and built the trapezoid sided frames. Had fun doing it at least. Sorry to pollute the thread. I started it because it was Bee Thinking that I bought the TBHs from and since parts are not universal, it makes it especially inconvenient when the vendor you chose in the beginning goes out of business.


----------



## ruthiesbees

*Re: BeeThinking going out of business*

Thanks for clarifying your earlier post, crabbcatjohn.


----------



## Duncan151

*Re: BeeThinking going out of business*

And to think that I felt a little guilty selling a TBH for 150.00. If you wish to pay those prices, by all means this is a free country. At 399.00 a pop, on sale, you quickly pay for a table saw and any other needed tools!


----------



## odfrank

*Re: BeeThinking is holding out for an answer from their bank*

I told my friend with a Bee Thinking topbar hive that it is now a collectors item. Does anyone have a super or hive with those fancy CNC triangular joints they would sell me for my collection? The website is still open but every item says sold out.


----------



## friendlywithbears

*Re: BeeThinking is holding out for an answer from their bank*

Bummer, I had been planning to buy a bunch more top bars and some more warre boxes from them. Kind of a pain when you've got hives from them with their custom dimensions.


----------



## Northwest PA Beekeeper

*Re: BeeThinking going out of business*



cg03026 said:


> It is May 23, 2017 at noon CDT.
> I find it despicable that even as of the past few minutes the phone number at Bee Thinking (877-325-2221) answers with,
> 
> "Hello Bee Thinkers.
> Due to peak volume all of our wonderful agents are currently on the line.
> We are able to respond to most inquiries in 36 - 48 hours..."
> and it goes on with more blather about how the sky is blue, blah, blah, blah. How much they like us, blah, blah, blah.


I guess it would be a bit hard for them to go in and answer their phone (or change their message) when chances are the bank has changed the locks and they are not permitted to enter!

After looking at their website and looking at the pictures of the owners and employees - it's not too hard to figure out how they got into the mess they are in.

Their website is a "feel good . . . . we care about the environment . . . . . " Much like the Flowhive hype.

They are millennials - and nothing bad will ever happen in the mind of a millennial.


----------



## BadBeeKeeper

*Re: BeeThinking going out of business*



Northwest PA Beekeeper said:


> I guess it would be a bit hard for them to go in and answer their phone (or change their message) when chances are the bank has changed the locks and they are not permitted to enter!


I've worked with a number of PBX systems over the years, and all of the ones I've worked with incorporated a facility to manage them remotely by dialing in and entering an access code that allows one to change messages and mailbox features.


----------



## niki.nicole

*"Bee Thinking" company problems*

I ordered a hive from Bee Thinking (base board, inner cover, roof, two 8-frame hive bodies with windows in the side). I choose them because I love the windows, they are well designed and use responsibly sourced wood. However, they sent me 10-frame bodies and 8-frame everything else and I have been trying to get a hold of them for over a month now to get the right parts to turn it into an 8-frame hive.

Now their website is off-line. Has anyone had any experience with the company or know any inside info as to what is going on?


----------



## Dan the bee guy

*Re: "Bee Thinking" company problems*

Yes they are bankrupt. There is another post here somewhere about it.


----------



## Rader Sidetrack

*Re: "Bee Thinking" company problems*

Here is the thread ...
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?337495-BeeThinking-going-out-of-business


----------



## niki.nicole

*Re: "Bee Thinking" company problems*

I just found it before you posted. So I know some guys who are good with building (not so much fine wood working). I am going to see if they can mimic the joints to shrink the 10-frame width to 8-frame. If they can't, do you think it would work to cut the excess wood out of the middle of the side and glue it together and screw braces along the cut? Will that be strong enough to hold full frames?


----------



## TexasFreedom

*Re: "Bee Thinking" company problems*

I remember this company. They were on the TV show "Shark Tank" maybe 5 years ago. I remember thinking the guy was a bit arrogant, but hey, he made it on TV so good for him. They didn't get a deal (good for the Sharks looking back) but I'm sure that was great advertising for them.

Fast forward, I happened to be setup across from them at a Mother Earth Fair show last year. Same guys as on TV (went back to youtube & verified). They were definitely still arrogant, more-so in person. They thought they had the best stuff in the world, their prices reflected it, and they couldn't really explain to me why they were 20% more than others (at the same show). They had good quality, I'm not faulting that, but their prices were a bit high. But they did sell almost everything (times were good, everyone sold almost everything at that show).

This year, same show, no Bee Thinking guys. I didn't miss them, but quite a few booths weren't there. Every other bee supply place was there (I think).

Not sure of all the reasons they failed. Bad business model? Leadership issues? Growth/planning? Corruption/theft? Whole staff won the lotto? I wish all involved recovery and success in the future, both the people in the business and their customers who were shorted.


----------



## friendlywithbears

*Re: BeeThinking going out of business*



ruthiesbees said:


> The kits I buy are in no way "cheap", and the first one I bought is going on 4 years with no signs of decay. Pine hives, just like yours, John. I do like to paint them festive colors so they become "garden art". It has a gabled metal roof, 19" topbars with anchored comb guides, screened bottom floor with slide out IPM board. I only choose to add the windows myself because I can do it for less than $10. Assembly on the kit is minimal, as in 18 screws for the hive and 4 nails for the roof. These are a nice way to ease into beekeeping. If someone wants to convert over to Langstroth equipment, the bars slip right in there, although most people that I help get started, love their topbar hives and stick with that kind of beekeeping.


Ruth, I really appreciate your recommendation for Beeline top bar hives. Since Beethinking left I found myself without a source and a need to do some splits. They're really great to work with and were fast in getting me what I needed. For anyone using beethinking top bars, the bars are only about 17 1/4", so shorter than the beeline, but rest perfectly at the top of the beeline body. You do need to trim about 1.5 to 2 inches of comb off the bottom though as the body is more shallow.

I do miss the western red cedar beethinking used, I'm a sucker for cedar with several coatings of tung oil, although I'm sure the pine will look good as it weathers in. They also did do some really great design and detailed milling.

Here are some beethinking top bars next to one of my new beelines as I'm doing surgery to split from one into the other.


----------



## max2

*Re: BeeThinking going out of business*

I had no dealing with the company in questions but I have been in business for some 35 + years.
No answer on their phone: if banks are the same in the US as here they would not even be able to access their phone
Did not change message: see above
Did not send goods: see above

As I say, I don't know the people and have no association with any of them.
Here in Australia I'm getting offer after offer of discounts for Flow Hives. I too sell bee equipment. I MAY give a discount at the end of the season.

Did anybody expect the hype of a couple of years ago to continue? I see second hand Flow Hives for sale.

There will be a market for any product. It will find a level. This shop took a risk and it did not work out.

I feel sad for them but that, my friend, is business. 

The Flow Hive people collected their funds via crowd funding , not from a bank!


----------



## BadBeeKeeper

*Re: BeeThinking going out of business*



max2 said:


> The Flow Hive people collected their funds via crowd funding , not from a bank!


And minimized their risk of the cost of capital expenditures by getting another company to go on the hook for tooling up to manufacture the product. It was slightly more elegant, though less long-lived than a stock scam, and adroitly managed to avoid legal pitfalls. Gotta hand it to them, it was a real nice score.


----------



## Barry

*Re: BeeThinking going out of business*



> Tapcomb lists its office address as Portland, Oregon, where Flow Hive also has a base.


http://www.watoday.com.au/small-bus...stung-by-chinese-ripoffs-20170411-gviyzg.html

Wonder if this is BeeThinking.


----------



## crabbcatjohn

*Re: BeeThinking going out of business*

lol.. Makes you wonder considering Flow also has a office in Portland and were somewhat connected to Bee 
Thinking.. This whole thing stinks


----------



## crabbcatjohn

*Re: BeeThinking going out of business*

Copied from their facebook page. Apparently customers won't receive the orders they paid for. Sounds like they didn't have many customers at the end. 

Dear Bee Thinking customers and community,
We are incredibly sorry to announce that Bee Thinking, LLC has come to an end. A number of insurmountable, simultaneous problems converged over the last year and a half, and though we tried ceaselessly to overcome the circumstances, we ultimately could not.
During this past month we watched the last act unfold with lawyers and bankers, unable to communicate as we were hoping on the slim chance we could revive the company and would thus be able to respond to existing customer inquiries with positive news.
Though we attempted earlier on to obtain a capital investment, and even appeared on Shark Tank, we were not able to do so during a time the company dearly needed it due to unprecedented growth. Not securing an investment, coupled with experiencing late delivery and receiving low grade products from a manufacturer two years in a row, put the company in an unrecoverable position. We are sorry that we have let everyone down: the customers who did not receive a purchase or a response, valued employees who have had to find other jobs, vendors that won’t get paid, and family members who lost their investments.
We produced great products, had the greatest customers, and the best, most loyal employees. We are now closed and have ceased operations as a business. The remaining bits and pieces of Bee Thinking, LLC have been auctioned off by lenders.
While our futures remain undecided, we hope at some point to be able to be involved again with the beekeeping community we’ve valued and loved. We still believe in supporting the health and habitat of bees, sharing knowledge, spreading bee and pollinator education, and taking sustainable steps towards rebuilding and fostering a healthy environment and world.
This last year has been an incredible struggle both personally and professionally. While we remain dedicated co-parents, and deeply admiring and valuing of one another, our marriage also succumbed to the incredible stresses and unsustainable time demands necessary for the company in recent years. We very amicably split last year in order to create healthier lives for ourselves and our young son.
We have loved Bee Thinking, LLC, we’ve dedicated ourselves to it completely for 9 years, and now it is gone. Our customers and employees were the key to our success, and we've failed both. We are crushed. We are deeply sorry we could not find a way through.
-- Jill & Matt


----------



## estreya

*Re: BeeThinking going out of business*

I try to be both compassionate and forgiving, but i also know "spin" when i see it. The disconnect between what Bee Thinking was presenting to its customers and what we now know was going on behind the scenes could not be more extreme. Up until no more than two weeks before they made their situation public, the mailers that were going out were all unicorns and sunshine: Announcing our new frame design! A mead tasting party! A new instructional video! Our summertime education schedule! All the while, when you'd call to follow-up on an undelivered or incomplete order, some lame excuse would be offered (that was before they finally stopped answering their phones). Then, the house of cards collapsed and seemingly out of nowhere, they instructed customers to issue chargebacks with their banks in order to get their money back. In our case, it was too late to do that with one of our orders so that's hundreds of dollars - gone. And i know we're not alone.

I get that a few hundred dollars in no way compares to personal and professional tragedy. But my compassion is sorely compromised when the wounds appear to have been self-inflicted and many innocent people were caught in the crossfire. And now it appears they may be "re-inventing" themselves in some other incarnation? With what money will they be able to accomplish this? It all just doesn't pass the smell test. And the sad part is that if we knew they were in trouble, if they were honest with their customers, if they seemed to be making every effort to put things right, we would have understood and been supportive. But they never gave their customers that opportunity.

/rant off


----------



## Northwest PA Beekeeper

*Re: BeeThinking going out of business*



crabbcatjohn said:


> . . . . . . . Not securing an investment, coupled with experiencing late delivery and receiving low grade products from a manufacturer two years in a row, put the company in an unrecoverable position. We are sorry that we have let everyone down: the customers who did not receive a purchase or a response, valued employees who have had to find other jobs, vendors that won’t get paid, and family members who lost their investments.
> We produced great products, had the greatest customers, and the best, most loyal employees. We are now closed and have ceased operations as a business.
> While our futures remain undecided, we hope at some point to be able to be involved again with the beekeeping community we’ve valued and loved.
> We have loved Bee Thinking, LLC, we’ve dedicated ourselves to it completely for 9 years, and now it is gone. Our customers and employees were the key to our success, and we've failed both. We are crushed. We are deeply sorry we could not find a way through.
> -- Jill & Matt


So . . . . it isn't their fault - it's the manufacturer's fault that gave them "low grade products" is the reason they went out of business. (WOW!) 

"We hope at some point to be involved again with the beekeeping community." (As in creating another business so you can screw your customer's again? Eh . . . . . don't even bother!)

So, even though they continued to take orders (and their customer's money) and knowing they probably wouldn't be able to ship their products to the customer (hoping upon hope they could) - they still gave lame excuses for why orders hadn't been shipped - that is how they treat their "greatest customers"?

Their message isn't "spin" - it's outright lies!!!!!


----------



## BadBeeKeeper

*Re: BeeThinking going out of business*



crabbcatjohn said:


> "We are now closed and have ceased operations as a business. *The remaining bits and pieces of Bee Thinking, LLC have been auctioned off by lenders.*"-- Jill & Matt


Looks like my 'translation' was, as Gordon Ramsay would say, "Spot on." I should have a PhD. for my education in 'Weasel Speak'.

My sympathy to those who paid their hard-earned dollars and got nothing in return.


----------



## AstroBee

*Re: BeeThinking going out of business*

Why is such a story "sticky" worthy?


----------



## tckmet

*Re: BeeThinking going out of business*

Just new to the Beesource forum and I was curious in that when I had gone to to their site everything was sold out and that bee built was coming soon I did some search querys and found this forum and the topic. So I will give you my experience with beethinking in that I had placed an order for some Warre'and 8 frame lang equipment which exceded several hundred dollars in February and was getting frustrated in that all I received from them was 2 warre' hive bottoms which were poorly assembled and would not allow a hive box to sit flat. I inquired about the lang equipment which had been ordered in early February and it was still not ready in mid April? So I cancelled the order and from what I am hearing was one of the lucky ones or one and was even able to receive a RMA shipping label from them to send back the warre' bottoms. I always dealt with an Emily there and she always responded to my calls uasally a day later assuming that the first conversation that I had wth Her reference that they were completly swamped with orders no doubt so I figured they were busy with the delayed calls back. Thank goodness I did not get screwed and I really feel for the folks that did and there is no excuse for it and qouting silly DC Comics qoutes at the begining of this thread does not get them off the hook or minimize with what they did with other peoples money:no::no::no: maybe lets look up the definition of theft, fraud, and victim instead of DC Comics qoutes. :s :scratch:Check out THE WARRE' STORE real quality products not farmed out to the lowest bidder built on site by real craftsman.


----------



## BeesInNJ

*Re: BeeThinking going out of business*

Beethinking.com now redirects you to BeeBuilt.com in the address bar with a small 'coming soon' notice at the top of the 'old' beethinking.com home page. Hopefully those with open orders get filled and those looking for a refund get their money back before beebuilt really starts up.


----------



## Rader Sidetrack

*Re: BeeThinking going out of business*

Here is BeeBuilt's "About Us" page ...


> Bee Built is the world's first beekeeping supplier specializing in foundationless Top Bar Hives, Warre hives, and Langstroth Hives made from sustainably-harvested wood. We focus on providing our customers with high-quality, sustainably built products at reasonable prices.
> 
> All of our beehives are crafted at our mill in Portland, Oregon using kiln dried Western Red Cedar and sugar pine from the Pacific Northwest. We use these same products in our own apiaries and we love to pass on our knowledge of natural beekeeping to beekeepers new and old.
> 
> We take pride in the hives that we build and are dedicated to supporting our customers and our products. If you have special instructions regarding your order, or if you have questions regarding hive management and beekeeping, please let us know by phone, e-mail or in person at our retail location in Portland, Oregon.
> 
> https://beebuilt.com/pages/about-us



And, courtesy of Archive.org ("The Wayback Machine" ), the similar page from Beethinking, archived in March 2016 ...


> Bee Thinking is the world's first beekeeping supplier specializing in foundationless Top Bar Hives, Warre hives, and Cedar Langstroth Hives. We focus on providing our customers with high-quality, sustainably built products at reasonable prices.
> 
> All of our beehives are crafted at our mill in Portland, Oregon using kiln dried Western Red Cedar from the Pacific Northwest. We use these same products in our own apiaries and we love to pass on our knowledge of natural beekeeping to beekeepers new and old.
> 
> We take pride in the hives that we build and are dedicated to supporting our customers and our products. If you have a special instructions regarding your order or if you have questions regarding hive management and beekeeping, please let us know by phone, e-mail or in person at our shop in Portland, Oregon.
> 
> https://web.archive.org/web/20160326105248/http://www.beethinking.com/pages/about-us


I, for one, am wondering exactly *what is different*, other than a new business name?:scratch:



... fool me once ... ... ... :no:


----------



## tckmet

*Re: BeeThinking going out of business*

I agree with Graham,
as stated in an earlier post I was fortunate to receive my refund from Beestinking.inch:and I would BEE careful in placing any new orders with Beebull and as they say:lookout:flies.

Tom


----------



## Barry

*Re: BeeThinking going out of business*



AstroBee said:


> Why is such a story "sticky" worthy?


Because there are customers who paid money and never received the product or refund. It's wise to keep up with what is happening with this company.


----------



## AHudd

*Re: BeeThinking going out of business*

The difference in the two statements is the addition of sugar pine to the BeeBuilt statement and they changed their "shop" to "retail location".


Alex


----------



## friendlywithbears

*Re: BeeThinking going out of business*

Probably the archive was an older one, as bee thinking had just added the sugar pine offering this spring. I would guess they are identical except for the name.


----------



## shinbone

*Re: BeeThinking going out of business*

Seems their new name is awfully close to the name of an already pre-existing bee products company

https://beebuilt.com/

http://beebuild.com.au/


----------



## rildin

*Re: BeeThinking going out of business*

I'm confused. How can they BOTH (BeeThinking & BeeBuild) be "the world's first beekeeping supplier specializing in foundationless Top Bar Hives, Warre hives, and Langstroth Hives made from sustainably-harvested wood"? 

Obviously a typo.


----------



## PepperBeeMan

*Re: BeeThinking going out of business*

Guys, I bought my first hive from BeeThinking 2 years ago. (This is my 3rd season.) 

The joints are warped beyond belief (basically creating 2 additional lower bee entrances in bottom brood box. The box frames are warped so that they don't sit properly on each other, which encourages the bees to propolis the areas. It's become a nightmare. It may just turn into firewood. It's like $400 down the drain. 

Btw, yes, I followed all assembly instructions and put Tite Bond III glue on all joints.


----------



## estreya

*Re: BeeThinking going out of business*

PepperBeeMan, i feel your pain. Our Lang top covers only lasted a year. They all have to be replaced before winter this year.


----------



## odfrank

*Re: BeeThinking going out of business*

It will be interesting to watch a bankrupt company who has cheated folks by not filling paid orders, resurrect itself in an almost identical entity with only a new name.

Sustainable lumber often means 2nd growth. It is to young and pithy to be used in thin strips for telescoping covers. Especially when only treated as recommended by this supplier, with "feel good organic" tung oil.


----------



## friendlywithbears

*Re: BeeThinking going out of business*

Interesting. I had a very good experience with my first TBHs from them, but then suddenly all the ones I'd get would warp in weird ways. Perhaps they were pushing to hard and not using properly seasoned wood?

Granted, I have had this happen with hives from other places too.

Also, don't you dare knock feel good organic tung oil. I use it for absolutely everything, bee hives, knife handles, axe handles, stopping bleeding, sauce for my eggs in the morning, everything.


----------



## PepperBeeMan

*Re: BeeThinking going out of business*

What's worse is that I bought the "premium cedar." 1 deep, 3 meds. 2 of the meds are warped. The deep looks like somebody took a hammer to it for a week. 

I coated them with oil quite liberally several times before giving to the bees. It's just a shame. 

Saw them on Shark Tank begging for money. They should have stuck to warre and top bar and capitalized on their customer. I bought their story.

For now, I will build my own stuff or buy from Mann Lake. They've been great.


----------



## Dwarvencheif

*Re: BeeThinking going out of business*

I just picked up the last TBH kit my local bee rescue had on hand. I was and still am sad to see them go belly up as I liked their top bar hives. Not being much on the stacked boxes, I have a weakened condition, I am attracted to top bars. After searching hi and low for TBHs this summer I was excited to find the Bee Thinking TBH. Only to have the website soon list it as out of stock. I guess I'm lucky I didn't raise the funds soon enough to order one before they closed. 

I'm still glad I was able to get one of their hives but would now like to find their plans so I can build my own to match all my parts. I also really liked the simplicity of the hive tool they sold, trying to make my own like it has been a bugger as it's been a few decades since I held a torch  

I for one look forward to the "New" company offering the same TBH gear that I almost bought in vane...


----------



## crabbcatjohn

*Re: BeeThinking going out of business*

Seems the "new" company has the same hives,pictures, and the old website redirects you to the new one etc. The pictures still have the Beethinking logo...lol wow, just wow! I would be extremely pissed if they owed me money...


----------



## Tenpin

Everything I ever received from BeeThinking was improperly cut. Box joints needed to be sanded or chiseled, wood was warped, roofs leaked.
Did the Flow Hive deal hurt? Hell yes it did. BeeThinking made a pitch to produce the woodenware, got awarded a contract for 65,000 orders and subsequently delivered sub-par craftsmanship to folks that paid a pretty penny for that Western red cedar. The returns and complaints were huge and I assume they had to eat those replacement costs. BeeThinking was CONSTANTLY on the Flow forums apologizing for the poor craftsmanship BTW. The Flow folks likely dissolved that relationship as soon as possible. In fact, none if their woodenware has been BeeThinking sourced for some time now.
Do I blame Flow? Heck no. Their only mistake was buying the pitch the manufacturer made.


----------



## tckmet

T-Minus and 2 weeks and counting for the New Beebuilt!Unless they have an extremely rich Uncle to float them it will never succeed, the damage has been done. Speaking of the flow hive and iits concept like any hobby that has a large consumer base there will always be the ones selling snake oil-automotive, electronics, sports, and ect. I loved it and got a laugh out of it when a hobbyist Beekeeper on youtube(628dirtrooster) came up with his own version of the flow hive-fresh comb honey from a cutout crushed in his hand over his Wifes pancakes!:thumbsup:


----------



## friendlywithbears

I would pay good money to have 628dirtrooster crush comb honey in his hand over my pancakes.


----------



## friendlywithbears




----------



## friendlywithbears

Duplicate


----------



## odfrank

Announcements are easy. It is September. I want to see it really happen.


----------



## JRG13

I just saw this on FB. Apparently a guy named Ed Shearer liked Bee Thinking, acquired all the assets during the foreclosure and asked Matt and Jill to come work for him to make BeeBuild a success.


----------



## tckmet

What about the money that was taken(stolen)from their customers and the CC Companies??? Did Ed Shearer liked those that were taken because of Matt and Jill?


----------



## crabbcatjohn

A Note From Our Owner, Ed Shearer

I acquired product designs, mill assets, and intellectual properties during the foreclosure sale of Bee Thinking, LLC in June of 2017. I had briefly worked with Matt Reed and Jill McKenna, the owners of Bee Thinking prior to Bee Thinking shutting down. I was very impressed with Bee Thinking's designs, web site, quality products, sustainability values, and terrific, knowledgeable customers.

I was also impressed with Matt and Jill. Their inexhaustible concern for bees, nature, natural beekeeping, and their commitment to crafting the best hives available, continues to stand out against the incredible losses they have experienced. When the opportunity came up to purchase these assets, I asked Matt and Jill to come work for me to build Bee Built. I believe that with my years of small business experience and their passion for natural beekeeping and hive design and production, we can build a solid, sustainable and successful company for our customers, employees and community.

- Ed Shearer, Owner

From the website... Sounds like their problems have been solved. I wish the new owner/owners luck. I wonder why he changed the name if he bought all the rights etc. as stated


----------



## tckmet

A Note From A Former Customer, Tom Kmet

Sounds like a sales pitch, I unsubscribed from the website and I was not impressed with their inexhaustible concern with customers and quality products.

- Tom Kmet, Frustrated and Dissatisfied Customer


----------



## TexasFreedom

I do wish them all the best.

However, I'm confused. He can only say good things about them and the business. And their efforts and business left countless customers out to dry.

Here is my question. What will be DIFFERENT? Same people, same products, same methods, and yet he expects different results? And starting this time with customers with a bitter taste in their mouths?

I think I said this earlier. I saw Bee Thinking people at a trade show 2 years ago. They had nice products, but when I asked (and I asked multiple ways) why were their hives better than 2 other vendors at the same show which were $50 cheaper, all I got were dumb looks and nonsense answers. Competition matters.


----------



## estreya

I'm with you, Tckmet - once burned, twice shy. This whole thing stinks, and i'm not buying the "Phoenix From The Ashes" schtick for one single second.


----------



## Rader Sidetrack

Ed Shearer's other business is a company that makes loans based on a business's accounts receivables. Here is the website ...

https://www.interfacefinancial.com/team/shearer/clients/

My guess is that Ed (InterfaceFinancial) came across BeeThinking as BeeThinking was in the early stages of collapse and needed additional loans. Makes me wonder if InterfaceFinancial was the entity that foreclosed on BeeThinking.


----------



## JWPalmer

JRG13 said:


> I just saw this on FB. Apparently a guy named Ed Shearer liked Bee Thinking, acquired all the assets during the foreclosure and asked Matt and Jill to come work for him to make BeeBuild a success.


Really? The two people that ran the business into the ground and pissed off beekeepers across the US are going make his new business a success? Hey, its his money. First thing I would do is get rid of the baggage, then fix the pr nightmare by refunding open orders and replacing any component that was subpar. Otherwise, new name or not, the perception is business as usual and I dare say the outcome of that philosophy is quite clear.


----------



## crabbcatjohn

Good catch Rader.


----------



## tckmet

Maybe this is the real reason:

1. Purchasing debt to relieve your tax burden. Buying a failing company with "debt" (especially if you can extinguish it by owning it yourself or negotiating settlement) can lower the net revenue that's taxable. Cancellation of Debt (COD) Income

2. Failing companies tend to have a reason for that failure. Often that reason can form the basis of a lawsuit. Purchasing a company allows you to pursue settlements and financial litigation victories.

Just my 2 cents again and I did a little research on Goolag and found this info and I am still looking at this as if the glass was half empty and there is another motive.


----------



## TexasFreedom

tckmet,

I don't think he bought their 'debt'. Rather he just bought the assets that sold after the bankruptcy of BeeThinking. He has no liabilities and nothing to negotiate. But he has any manufacturing equipment, tools, etc.

But where I think you missed on #1, you get 18 gold stars for #2, that is 10000000% right on target. No, he owes nobody anything. But with this move, he gets free the disdain of a galaxy of ticked off beekeepers. 

This is as bad as if Hitler survived WW2, and later opened a chain of restaurants... success rate guesses? We'll see.


----------



## tckmet

:update:
BeeBuild open for business: 8 frame deep sugar pine $ 48.00 unassembled (BeeBuild/BeeThinking)
8 frame deep aromatic eastern red cedar wood Ozark Cedar Mom and Pop business $ 42.00 unassembled
8 frame deep eastern white pine Kelly $ 22.95 unassembled
8 frame deep select pine Dadant $ 19.42 unassembled
8 frame deep commercial(unknown pine) Brushy Mountain $ 15.75 unassembled
As I see it there are 2 groups of Bee keepers the Hobbyist and the Commercial folks and I could see someone paying a higher price for a hive/components from a manufacture that uses a higher grade wood/construction methods so he or she could place it in a garden setting or back yard and a business/advanced hobbyist using the less expensive products for a larger operation with all the added overhead involved with the operation and upkeep of the apiary. Point is what makes BeeBuild formally BeeThinking hives so much better and expensive compared to others?????:s
I personally owned an Ozark Cedar Hive and was impressed with the build quality and materials(eastern red cedar) but unfortunately someone sprayed this hive and another bee keepers hive in my city last year and I had to destroy it because of the pestcide used, they did not touch the 2 commercial style hives that I had in the back yard because they were out of site in which I eventually changed over to Warre's from The Warre' Store this Spring. I would have bought them from Ozark but they discontinued their Warre' line. I am impressed with The Warre' Store's products, build quality, and customer service and continue to order from them. On a closing thought BeeBuild has such a high customer approval rating for its products in such a very short time since they opened.:scratch::s:


----------



## KBroman

I bought some hives from BeeThinking years ago. I was really impressed with the material and quality of the product. Loved the product and I still use them today with nothing more than a tung oil seal. They have held up beautifully in the harsh northern climate. I will NEVER purchase from BeeBuild. The prices are so far out of line now, I don't see how anyone would spend that kind of money for boxes. If I want cedar in the future, I will be buying from Ozark.


----------



## honey jhar

Sooo... Did they ever make thing right? The new site:
https://beebuilt.com/pages/about-us


----------



## estreya

No they did not. And this year, we need to replace every lid we ever purchased from them because they're all falling apart. Shouldn't a lid last more than a year?


----------



## odfrank

estreya said:


> No they did not. And this year, we need to replace every lid we ever purchased from them because they're all falling apart. Shouldn't a lid last more than a year?


Are those the peaked telescoping covers made of thin strips of wood? Flowhive has similar ones and I don't see them lasting a decade.


----------



## JWChesnut

Bee Built is closing down. Offering 50% off on a very limited selection of stale inventory. 1/1/2019
Hopefully this shut down is more controlled than the previous bankruptcy. Looks like the "Flow hive" killed yet another business.


----------



## tckmet

Good riddance of this operation it was all a scam they stole from folks.


----------

