# Oxalic acid and resistance



## hex0rz (Jan 14, 2014)

I don't believe I've seen a thread on the subject? 

Are mites able to develop a resistance to OA? I see labels stating to rotate treatments and some people making the same statement. But are they really able to? 

I was hoping to be able to use it as my only treatment against mites for obvious reasons, but considering the repercussions from resistance if it's possible.

Input?


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## colby (Jan 12, 2013)

From Dadant " it is thought that the acid is absorbed by the pads on the mites feet and then enters the blood stream and kills the mites. Also, it seems that the acid burns off parts of the mites mouth. However it works it decimates the mites. "


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## hex0rz (Jan 14, 2014)

That's nice, but that doesn't say whether or not they'll develop a resistance..


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

from memory I believe randy oliver stated they cannot become resistant.


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## warrior (Nov 21, 2005)

The studies I've read say it is highly unlikely but they all hedge their bets and recommend rotation by mode of action to prevent resistance.


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## SS Auck (May 8, 2015)

Most resistance would come from low-dose of chemical/magic bullet. And over time a mutation would occur where the pest that would allow it to not be harmed anymore. But with OA I do not see how the mites could live through it to pass on its mutated gene. It is instant death even if the mites dont know it at the time. The other treatments are more of an internal biological pathway it disrupts. Almost like saying wood might become resistant to fire. or maybe slugs becoming resistant to salt.


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## Ski (Jan 18, 2007)

As stated above it is highly unlikely that the mites would be come resistant to OA, but nature has a way of adapting.
This was also mentioned at the last North Carolina State Beekeepers meeting.


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## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

OA is a mechanical poison -- you can see the burned "sticky pads" under a moderate power microscope. Could people become resistant to "mustard gas" ? Yes, they could learn behaviours to avoid contact. Varroa could band together and promote a Geneva convention that would threaten worldwide criminal condemnation if beekeeper used caustic OA on their populations.

The likelihood of a Varroa war crimes convention is unlikely. OA resistance is similarly unlikely. There are likely some novel behaviors, such as hiding on a new portion of the bee anatomy or brood cell, that would be adopted over time. Minimization of the phoretic phase would be the initial step -- and the "ankle-biters" and allogrooming responses are just as likely to initiate those adaptations.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Per Jennifer Berry, Entomologist and Honey Bee Lab manager for UGA on Oxalic Acid…..

“……………*resistance will not be an issue. It'd be like a ****roach becoming resistant to a hammer.”*


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## hex0rz (Jan 14, 2014)

Why does the label with the OA from the EPA have a section about resistance then? Is it just a CYA formality?

https://www3.epa.gov/pesticides/chem_search/ppls/091266-00001-20151013.pdf


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

hex0rz said:


> Is it just a CYA formality?


That would be my guess. This is the opening statement in the "Resistance Management" section.



> Oxalic acid’s mechanism of action is unknown at this time. Any Varroa mite population has the potential to become resistant to acaricides.


There are too many "unknowns" and "potential" considerations for them to state as fact that mites will never develop resistance to OA. It appears to me to be a CYA formality and liability shedding disclaimer.


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## Arnie (Jan 30, 2014)

opcorn:


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

JWChesnut said:


> The likelihood of a Varroa war crimes convention is unlikely.


I don't know JW, it's a screwed up world we live in. It wouldn't surprise me to see a PETVM organization spring up.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

snl said:


> Per Jennifer Berry, Entomologist and Honey Bee Lab manager for UGA on Oxalic Acid…..
> 
> “……………*resistance will not be an issue. It'd be like a ****roach becoming resistant to a hammer.”*


Kill one ****roach with a hammer; you have a dead ****roach.

Kill a million ****roach with hammers; you get faster ****roaches.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?318123-Varroa-shouldn-t-develop-resistance-to-OA

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?320203-treatments-are-a-dead-end

Randy Oliver: "Will overuse of oxalic acid result in its becoming just another “Silver Bullet” with a limited effective life, due to mites evolving resistance? I strongly suggest using it to knock back mite levels only once a year. Otherwise, we’ll just be breeding for OA-resistant mites"


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

Formic acid 'em in the Spring.

Oxalic acid 'em in the Fall.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

The day that we see this resistance to the OAV is the
day that all tf bees come into light. I for one will have this
aspiration to do so. Already line up with the sources of these
mite fighting bees for such a day when it arrives. In the mean time
continue to experiment on using my HMOAVG. My Homemade OAV Gadget!


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