# Hive Assembly Question? What Type of glue works and or what can be substituted ?



## vowelsctbee (Mar 15, 2013)

Reviewing the directions for the new hive it suggest Resin Glue. Could you use a general wood glue found at the local Lowe's or Home Depot instead of Resin Glue from the manufacturer? 

How about Gorilla Wood Glue? Already have some of that and could use up the bottle completing these 2 hives.

Any suggestions or comments please let me know?


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## jim81147 (Feb 18, 2013)

Titebond glue is what I use with all my woodworking projects . Any good glue should do you a good job though as long as the joints are clean and tight fitting. Are you also planning on screwing , nailing or stapling the joints? Doing so will keep things tight together and give you a stronger joint.


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## KPeacock (Jan 29, 2013)

titebond II and titebond III are the ones most folks here use. There is plenty of argument for which is best. TBII is water resistant, while TBIII is waterproof. I like that the TBII is thicker, so it does run and drip as much as the TBIII. since my hives are eitehr painted or clear coat finished, the wood/glue won't be exposed to much water, so i think either will work just fine. Of course, the use of mechanical fasteners (nails, staples, screws...) is recommended.

The original gorilla glue is kinda nice because ot foams/expands to fill any imprefections in the joints. one downside, is that it can expand past the wood surface and not look "pretty" if that matters to you. The glue is also waterproof.

I have not used the gorilla glue wood glue. Their website claims it is water resistant. I suspect it is pretty similar in efficacy to the TBII.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

> Could you use a general wood glue found at the local Lowe's or Home Depot instead of Resin Glue from the manufacturer?

Lowes and HD both carry all the flavors of Titebond and Gorilla glue commonly used. "General wood glue" might include a product like Elmers Interior Wood Glue, which is really _not _a good choice for use in hives that are outdoors. Choose a type 2 or type 3 glue, or a poly glue like Gorilla Glue.

Use up the existing bottle of Gorilla Glue first. Titebond II is a very good glue choice at an affordable price. Locally it sells for half the price of Titebond III in gallon jugs. Unless your hives are submerged in water TBIII has no advantage over TBII.


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## Sharpbees (Jun 26, 2012)

Gorilla glue works fine, it's al I've ever used. I have a few tubes of liquid nail sitting on the shelf and may try using it to see how it works out.


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

I always favored the Titebond waterproof due to the low VOC's (fumes). I had a beebud that used liquid nail once. The bees didn't like the smell and bugged out.


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

I use tightbond III ,good stuff.


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## rweakley (Jul 2, 2004)

There is little practical difference between TB II and TBIII for water resistance.
The following is copied from titebond's website:

What is the difference between the ANSI/HPVA Type I and Type II water-resistance specification? 

Both of these tests are conducted using 6” by 6” birch laminates glued together to make three-ply plywood. The test for Type I is clearly more stringent than Type II, and involves boiling the glue bonds and testing the specimens while they are wet. 

Type I testing involves cutting the 6" by 6" assemblies into 1" by 3" specimens, boiling them for 4 hours, then baking the specimens in a 145°F oven for 20 hours. They are boiled for an additional 4 hours, then immediately cooled using running water. The specimens are sheared while wet, and the bonds must pass certain strength and wood failure requirements to pass the Type I specification.

Type II testing involves cutting the 6" by 6" assemblies into 2" by 5" specimens, soaking them for 4 hours, then baking the specimens in a 120°F oven for 19 hours. This is repeated for a total of three cycles, and the bonds must not delaminate to pass the Type II specification.

So unless you are going to put your finished boxes into boiling(real hot) wax/rosin tank, there is no reason not to just use the cheaper TBII.


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## curios1 (Jul 2, 2012)

the winner TIGHT BOND II


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## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

OK. I've read lots of variations of this thread in my time on BS. I've used all the glues mentioned above and more, with good results. My question is: Has anyone ever used a glue that did not work?


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## rweakley (Jul 2, 2004)

cg3 said:


> OK. I've read lots of variations of this thread in my time on BS. I've used all the glues mentioned above and more, with good results. My question is: Has anyone ever used a glue that did not work?


Yes, I have. I used elmers exterior wood glue and it did not hold as well as TBII.


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## curios1 (Jul 2, 2012)

when i was a kid i yous to mix flower and a little water together, and glue toothpicks together to make litle log cabins and forts. THAT WAS NOT A GOOD GLUE  why do you want to know of a glue that does not work ? when you clearly have glues that do work.:scratch: JUST CURIOS


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## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

I'm just curious, too. I'm wondering if this debate isn't sort of like the debate about mixing syrup, where my (superior)method yields 1:1 and your (inferior)method yields 1:1.05 .


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## curios1 (Jul 2, 2012)

yes kind of. but your question was. and i quote ( has any one ever used a glue that did not work ) and i told ya. and now is probably a good time to use tite bond II. now i know we are talking about be hive construction. i was not implying any thing about you. just haveing a little fun. now as far as your 1 to 1 supirior mix compared to my inferior mix. yes i mix by volume 1 to 1 and it's just not as perfect as others.BUT my bees take it in and yours will too. now back to the glue. the next time we are both driveing down the road and see some one elses bee hives, we should stop, and ponder the posabilities of just what glue was used and as long as it's not a mix of flower and water. IT WILL BE ALRIGHT.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

Just my own experience:

In the late '70's I built my own bee boxes using rabbit joints, nails, and Elmers wood glue. I then painted each box with a couple of coats of exterior latex paint, making sure the joints were well covered.

The boxes started falling apart in about 3 years. The paint couldn't keep the moisture out of the joint, the glue failed due to the moisture, and the nails weren't enough by themselves to keep the joints tight. This was in relatively dry southern California. I quickly realized that not using a waterproof glue was a costly and easily avoided mistake by me.

With that experience in mind, I now use the most waterproof glue I can find, Tightbond III, and stainless steel ringshank nails. I don't mind paying a few extra cents per box for the peace of mind the overkill brings. But I am a hobbiest, so the extra expense is too small for me to worry about.

I have never used Gorilla Glue on a bee box, but I have used it in other applications, and my experience is that the glue gets brittle within a few years making the joint easy to crack. Which is a shame because I like how it expands to fill voids.


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## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

shinbone said:


> Just my own experience:
> 
> In the late '70's I built my own bee boxes using rabbit joints, nails, and Elmers wood glue. ... the glue failed due to the moisture, and the nails weren't enough by themselves to keep the joints tight.


That's the kind of info I was fishing for. That, and now I won't try wheat paste, either.


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## vowelsctbee (Mar 15, 2013)

Thanks for everyone's input. While the debate was interesting the winner was Tightbond III. The latest comment provided some information concerning Gorilla glue and becoming brittle after a while this would be unacceptable. From the replies above Tightbond products have a large following and make the most sense when following others advice.


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## herb (Jun 7, 2018)

I use tightbond for the wood assembly, but my question is about queen excluders, metal. What glue works best and is not fuming, or harmful to the bees, but works on metal?
I am adding strips of 5 mm. wood to the metal to give the bees a bit more room to maneuver.


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## little_john (Aug 4, 2014)

This is a 7 year-old thread ...

To glue metal to wood - try using 2-part epoxy (Araldite etc)

BTW - what you're proposing is (probably) not a good idea ...
LJ


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## Fivej (Apr 4, 2016)

Herb, I think what LJ meant is that you will not be successful trying to glue wood to the excluder and it is not a good idea to give the bees more room to maneuver. They have plenty of room with the beespace already built into the boxes/frames. I have seen some excluders with a wood rim and thought of doing it myself. I decided that it would just invite bridge comb which would block it up more than give them more space. If I were to do this, I would rout a kerf into the wood rim to accommodate the excluder and not attempt to glue it. J


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

little_john said:


> This is a 7 year-old thread ...
> 
> To glue metal to wood - try using 2-part epoxy (Araldite etc)
> 
> ...


I agree with the choice of epoxy glue. There could be some discussion though about possible benefit of additional space _under_ the excluder in our standard bottom bee space layout. (actually a combination) but mostly at the bottom of frame. I think I have seen it mentioned that the wood bound excluders do not get as filled with burr comb as do the thin wire ones. LJ are you using top or bottom bee space? I have pondered on spacing up a few excluders to see if it is any benefit but usually have bigger fish to fry.


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## little_john (Aug 4, 2014)

Hi Frank - yeah - that's why I put "probably" in parentheses. The standard British system was originally Bottom Bee-Space (meaning that the frame top bars are more-or-less flush with the box top - for anyone who may not be familiar with this issue) - but yes, I moved over to Top Bee-Space a few years ago as it seems far more sensible.

I've noticed that various bottom board designs for Langstroth equipment have included spacing battens, and so I assumed that Lang boxes were also Top Bee-Space - is this not so ?

All my wire excluders have wooden frames - these frames are necessary as the wire mesh would be around 2" too short in both dimensions otherwise. If the mesh was full-sized then I'd dispense with the woodwork as the extra space they create encourages the bees to become 'creative'.

FWIW - the old-fashioned punched-zinc excluders used to be placed on top of our bottom bee-space boxes, and so were also directly on top of the frame top-bars. I still have a couple of zinc excluders, but don't like using them as the slot edges are sharp, and I believe damaging to wings.
LJ


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## elmer_fud (Apr 21, 2018)

The store bought ones that I have use a wooding bar with a slot in it. The metal excluder is placed into the slots in all 4 bars then they are glued together. I suspect this will hold up much better than epoxy long term.


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## little_john (Aug 4, 2014)

elmer_fud said:


> The store bought ones that I have use a wooding bar with a slot in it. The metal excluder is placed into the slots in all 4 bars then they are glued together. I suspect this will hold up much better than epoxy long term.


yes, that's the sort I'm talking about (wood is underneath the white paint !).










Without the wooden 'slotted bars' the wire mesh (in my case) would be 1.5 - 2" too small in both dimensions.

I assume that Herb is starting off with full-sized excluders (?) so that attaching wood to one or both sides is the only option. Epoxy *will *attach metal to wood ok, but if smooth, it helps if you can roughen-up the metal surface a little to provide a key. 
There's also Gorilla glue, although I've never used it, and 'Gripfill' by the Evostick people - which is brilliant and will stick anything to just about anything. I love it - but it does off-gas petroleum vapour until it's hardened, which is deadly to bees. Otherwise it's brilliant stuff. 

Needless to say, even the slightest presence of wax, and nothing will stick to that surface.
'best
LJ


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

The common Lang arrangement is to have a 5/8 deep frame rest rebate and the frame ear being about 1/2" thick, results in about 1/8" space between top of frames and a line projected across the top of the hive body. The bottoms of a frame are commonly about 1/4" shy of reaching to the bottom of the hive body they sit in. This results in the normal bee space of approx 3/8" between upper and lower frames.

I dont know if it would be better to have a wire excluder tight down to the frame tops or to have the existing 1/8" gap or alternatively frame the excluder to space the wire close to bee space above the frame tops. 

I find more bridging of the wire to the 1/8 gap below than to the 1/4 gap to the frames above. I would like to hear the comparative experience of the folks who have used both the bare wire and the wood bound items. 

I will be cutting some excluders to use on the divided oversize box to accommodate twin 5 frame stacked nucs. Undecided whether to sacrifice two excluders or use wider wood framing to cover the increased distance.


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## SWM (Nov 17, 2009)

" I would like to hear the comparative experience of the folks who have used both the bare wire and the wood bound items."

I used only wood bound excluders for years but switched to wire bound after experimenting with a few. Much less burr comb and no wooden rims to rot out.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Thanks; I will take that off my important list. The burr comb is more an issue when putting the excluder and upper box back on to keep from squishing bees. Smoke, smoke, smoke!


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