# Where do I start?



## Silmiriel (May 5, 2007)

Hello everyone!

I'm brand-new to beekeeping... I've been wanting to keep bees for a long time and am finally taking the plunge now that I have a large enough backyard for hives.

I live in Northern California and want to raise bees using organic beekeeping. I've been concerned for a long time about honey bees and the idea of robbing the bees of all their honey and using chemicals just seems really wrong. I'm encouraged by hearing of the success of other organic beekeepers and am excited to be able to start this year!

I've been doing a lot of reading over the past couple of months, and it seems that it's best to let the bees draw their own combs. I've researched top bar beekeeping, but am also very interested in foundationless frames, as I would be able to use conventional equipment but still allow the bees to draw the comb the way they want to. 

I'm thinking of using the Brushy Mtn. English garden hive that's 8 frames as it would be easier for me to manage. I am not mechanically inclined, so I don't have the skill to make my own top bar hive.

I've signed up for a beginning beekeeping workshop in February and am trying now to find the most inconspicuous location in my backyard so that my hives are not visible to my neighbors.

I've visited Michael Bush's excellent website and am leaning toward the conventional equipment with foundationless frames as I would have local mentor beekeepers to help me who might not be organic, but would understand hive management in the tradtional style. When I have asked about top bar hives locally, I am met with blank stares. The availability of local help is very important to me.

Anyway, I am looking for some advice pro and con on the two systems - top bar hives and the foundationless frame approach and any other tips you can give me.

Thanks in advance for your help!

Mary


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

Sounds like your already off on the right foot!
I'd order my bees or find a source soon as often they are hard to come by after February. Maybe spend some time watching videos. A year in the life of an Apiary is an excellent choice, Ed Weis does one as well although someone else will have to remember the name. Of course what ever system you choose you'll have equipment to buy, build and paint. Bee Suit, Gloves, hive tool, Veil? Picked a good location? Get imto a good 12 step program now before it's too late!  Just a few quick thoughts.


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## Silmiriel (May 5, 2007)

Thanks, Joel! 

I have already ordered a 4 lb. package of Italians; I had wanted Carniolans because I had heard they were the most gentle, but in California, people are telling me that I'll do better with Italians!

I have not ordered equipment yet, because I'm still confused about the best way to go - top bar hives or conventional hives with foundationless frames. I'm also still working on the location. Local county ordinances require that I have my hives a minimum of 25 feet from other people's property and public streets, which isn't a problem. I have a 3/4 acre lot, so room is not the issue - the problem is where to put the hive(s) so that my neighbors don't see them?

Also, I have heard that bees don't like vibrations. Does that mean the bees are going to be agitated everytime a neighbor mows the lawn? Obviously, that wouldn't be good. 

I'm also a bit concerned about my bees possibly visiting the neighbor's swimming pool. I know about the necessity of providing a water source near the hives. If that is there, will that be enough to keep the bees from drinking en masse from my neighbor's pool?

If you or anyone else can give me some tips, I would appreciate it very much.

Thanks again!

Mary


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## stangardener (Mar 8, 2005)

hello! i live above placerville so we are practically neighbors.

-I have already ordered a 4 lb. package of Italians; I had wanted Carniolans because I had heard they were the most gentle, but in California, people are telling me that I'll do better with Italians!

italians are great but this californian is requeening with with carniolan types. i like the idea of a bee that clusters smaller and shuts down in a dearth. 

-I have not ordered equipment yet, because I'm still confused about the best way to go - top bar hives or conventional hives with foundationless frames. I'm also still working on the location. Local county ordinances require that I have my hives a minimum of 25 feet from other people's property and public streets, which isn't a problem. I have a 3/4 acre lot, so room is not the issue - the problem is where to put the hive(s) so that my neighbors don't see them?

i use both top bars and foundationless langs. if i had no commercial asperations i'd tend toward the tbh but i build my own and have no plans for anything but cyber and book mentors. definately check out sacramento beekeeping supply on "x" street in sacramento and mann lake in woodland. there is the sac beekeepers club but also the nevada county in grass valley. i live in mountain lion country and can't imagine living anywhere else but as far as neighbors you are the one best able to decide where you want the bees. put up a six or eight foot screen or fence if you want, if i had close neighbors i would. as far as vibrations thats part of why there is those twenty five feet regulations. as far as the neighbors pool, give the bees a constant water source before they need it and another good reason for the tall screen and not making it common knowledge you have bees right off.
have fun! but remember joels twelve step program advice


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## Silmiriel (May 5, 2007)

Hi Stan!

So sorry for the belated reply to your nice message!  The kids and I have just gotten done being sick, so I'm getting caught up!

Yay! Nice to have someone else close-by who is doing top bar hives! Everyone else I talk to in the Sacramento looks at me with blank expressions when I mention TBH... it will be nice to have someone local to compare notes with! 

I have a friend building my first two TBH and will be getting bees from Randy Oliver in Grass Valley. He is raising hygienic bees, and I am hoping that will help even more with mite resistance. I'm taking his beginning beekeeping class on the 23rd; I'm really looking forward to that! 

Thanks again for your message and the advice - I really appreciate it!

Mary


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnewbees.htm

Lots of things will work. I'd do what fits your philosophy.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesphilosophy.htm


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## stangardener (Mar 8, 2005)

i'm glad to hear you made the randy oliver conection. i've seen him speak at the nevada county beekeepers (he's a very active member) and a couple of beekeeping functions and believe his class should be very good. 
be forewarned randy probably sells nucs. that would be five deep langstroth frames likely on plastic foundation in your deep lang hive body. if this is the case the transfer to your tbh could be a little tricky. building the tbh's with lang dimensions might help alot.
if you have a chance to get randy's view on tbh's i'd like to hear it.
mr bush from the post above has an excellant web site and gives excellant advice.


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## spunky (Nov 14, 2006)

*bee keeping*

I started last year; I thought about TBH's but went with langs, glad I did.


As far as biological goes for 08' I will

Sugar dust hard in late august and early september and then use OA dribble in late Dec


Try different types of bees, but a dud queen from any line, is a dud.

Enjoy your bugs


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## Hobie (Jun 1, 2006)

Silmiriel said:


> ...I've been concerned for a long time about honey bees and the idea of robbing the bees of all their honey and using chemicals just seems really wrong.


You know, if this seems wrong to you, nothing says that a beekeeper has to harvest honey! Take a little bit, or let the bees keep it all. Just watching the fascinating creatures is reward enough. Many beekeepers avoid chemicals as well. Look into the powdered sugar (aka "Dowda") method for varroa mites.


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## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

> Originally Posted by *Silmiriel*
> _...I've been concerned for a long time about honey bees and the idea of robbing the bees of all their honey and using chemicals just seems really wrong.
> _


after beekeeping for three years and pondering the question here's my take on "robbing the bees"

in nature a healthy hive will build up its population in spring and swarm, that's how they reproduce
the parent hive will have a much reduced population and will gather a lot less honey, only enough to get it through winter
beekeepers know this and try to avoid swarming
if they succeed they get an unnaturally big colony of bees that collects much more honey than they need
this you can rob with a clear conscience, they don't need the extra 
if you worry about the ethics of preventing swarming, remember that swarms have a nasty habit of doing foolish things like setting up shop in your neighbors mailbox which will make you wish you had some honey to give them (the neighbors) to calm them down

Dave


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## Beltane (Jan 28, 2008)

Michael Bush said:


> http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnewbees.htm
> 
> Lots of things will work. I'd do what fits your philosophy.
> 
> http://www.bushfarms.com/beesphilosophy.htm


Those are great links - thanks.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

Silmiriel said:


> I've been concerned for a long time about honey bees and the idea of robbing the bees of all their honey and using chemicals just seems really wrong.


No offense, but the "robbing all the honey" sounds like standard propaganda one would hear coming out of PETA. Sure, there have been beekeepers that took all the honey, but they weren't beekeepers very long, or did so due to a lack of understanding. Successful beekeepers take only what the hive doesn't need to survive the winter. Think about it, it is in the best interest of the beekeeper to NOT take all the honey and to leave just the "right" amount. When first starting out its going to be difficult to determine how much is enough to leave, but that's were your local clubs will be very helpful.


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## livetrappingbymatt (Jan 13, 2006)

*Warning_warning!*

Take warning! once you start it's very hard to stop!
Why not a long hive? that way you can use regular frames( less colmb breakage) and you can super it with langs?
If Randy sells you a NUC you can just add frames as needed to a long hive?
They ( mine did) make more honey by adding a super over top of the brood chamber.
For water a childs plastic pool with "floats" works or a hose running into a 5 gallon bucket,running water is usually more attractive to the bees?
Hang on you'll have a blast.
bob evans


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