# Warm hives as opposed to ventilation



## hex0rz (Jan 14, 2014)

I too wonder these things. Although, I'm running an insulated top so condensation is less of an issue and having wet bees.

Sticking bees in a box with insulation only that of a fraction of a regular tree cavity has to affect them negatively. If it wasn't there wouldn't be people trying to come up with ways to keep their hives warmer in the northern climates.

My experience is limited, so I cannot personally say whether one is better than the other. I Will say that with my two hives left, I have the bottom entrance blocked off with hardware cloth to keep mice out, an empty super on the bottom to increase the distance of the cluster from the cold air space and a hole at the top cover. I do see condensation coming from these holes.

Will my hive fare better this way or will they do better with everything blocked off and no ventilation for the moisture?

Logic would say that being wet in the cold is asking for trouble. But if you keep the hive warm by cutting off ventilation and it inevitably gets humid in the hive, condensation develops on areas of extreme temperature differences. The matter is to prevent this moisture from soaking the bees. Hence why my top cover is insulated.

Think of it another way, when your house is heated, does it feel better to be in a dry heat or a humid heat?

I heat my house with a woodstove, it will dry the air out like crazy in the process. Everything I touch shocks me. The thermostat usually ranges in the 60s because of the size of the house and stove size. But most would say 60 some odd degrees would be cold in the winter. I find that it feels more equitable to somewhere in the 70s.

Since I have put a dutch oven on top to reintroduce moisture into the house and stop dessicating ourselves, the stove has to run hotter now to keep that same comfort level.

It has to do with heating capacity of the air. With more in the air, more energy is needed to keep the same comfort level.

Equate this principle from a home heating need to a Beehive and you'll see that being too humid in a hive is a bad thing.

Probably going further than I need to explain my point...


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## larryh (Jul 28, 2014)

Interesting..I've been wondering recently if there have been studies on insulation in the warm months, and if keeping the hive cooler has any impact on varroa.


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## marshmasterpat (Jun 26, 2013)

I can just say it sounds like it makes sense from what I know about insulation. Makes me wonder what the differences would be between the climate in England, the climate say in the Dakotas, and maybe the climate in Texas (January temps mid 50s so far and very humid year round). We used to get scared when RH dropped below 30 because of the threat of wildfires.


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## Slow Drone (Apr 19, 2014)

The climate in England is nothing like the Dakotas or Texas. Barely gets down to freezing in the winter and only gets into the 80s in the summer. Very damp and humid over there. Every time I've been to England it was either foggy, raining or overcast. They say they have some nice sunny days but they must be far and in between, was never lucky enough to see a sunny day anytime I've been there. My understanding is the beekeepers in England have more issues with chaulkbrood than we do over here.


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## Cloverdale (Mar 26, 2012)

Well I think that using insulation would benefit whether you are trying to keep the hives cooler in the heat, and keep the hives warmer in the cold. As with a house, you always need some ventilation too. And our climate where I am is damper. I insulate the top cover also with a top entrance and bottom one. I did strap on blue insulation on my hives last year and removed in March or so. I have a friend who is making long langs with insulation in them, making the thickness more like a tree. 
I also wondered about the humidity point they made in the article concerning varroa, how it affects their reproduction.


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## Cloverdale (Mar 26, 2012)

From what I have read it seems varroa do not like it hot.


larryh

."Interesting..I've been wondering recently if there have been studies on insulation in the warm months, and if keeping the hive cooler has any impact on varroa."


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

I have had no winter losses; perhaps the fact that I have _at least_ three or four inches of insulation around all sides of my colonies has something to do with that. (I also use Quilt boxes and two small entrances - one each top and bottom, together equaling less than 1.25 sq.inch.) My bees are only rarely tightly clustered, they mostly mill around and thousands of them are hanging out in the feeding rim space under the QB on all but the bitterest ( below 0 F) days. 

I am using a bit less insulation this year (nothing inside the full-sized hives). I am slightly worried about this change. Since it has gotten cold my bees seem more clustered than in past winters. It's too late to make any changes so I'll just have to see how it goes.

Enj.


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## Mycroft Jones (Aug 22, 2015)

Enjambres, what do you do in summer? Remove the insulation or leave it? At what point do you remove it?


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

How would varroa be affected? The multiply in sealed brood at 92 degrees and the bees will try to keep it from going much higher. Logic says that the warm month of August would kill them off instead they flourish in August. It would be nice if there were many more hives in this experiment and multiple locations over a few years to make a decision on how much an insulated hive helps.


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## HIVE+ (Jan 4, 2012)

A study done by Kraus and Velthuis in 1997 and cited by Z Huang states that varroa reproduction is greatly reduced when humidity is above 80%. The reason for the late season effect of failure of hives is the reduced laying of the queen and the mites, that were feeding on many larvae, now feeding on a few.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

I am sure that location makes all the difference but I see high mite counts in August, a dropping population of adult bees that are spent for the season and than a build up of young bees to make it through winter. When the population drops the mites seem to go with them so the new bees don't crash like you think they would. Our goldenrod I think is late so I think this comes in from the new bees not the old ones. I could be wrong on that.


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## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

enjambres said:


> I have had no winter losses; perhaps the fact that I have _at least_ three or four inches of insulation around all sides of my colonies has something to do with that. (I also use Quilt boxes and two small entrances - one each top and bottom, together equaling less than 1.25 sq.inch.) My bees are only rarely tightly clustered, they mostly mill around and thousands of them are hanging out in the feeding rim space under the QB on all but the bitterest ( below 0 F) days.
> 
> I am using a bit less insulation this year (nothing inside the full-sized hives). I am slightly worried about this change. Since it has gotten cold my bees seem more clustered than in past winters. It's too late to make any changes so I'll just have to see how it goes.
> 
> Enj.


Can't agree more and just shake my head when I hear all the talk in the fall that wrapping in cooler/cold climates is enough. Also I suggest minimal ventilation. Just need fresh oxygen and remove the moisture. Beyond that, extra ventilation is cooling the interior and for what purpose. Yeah, the hive might survive but is a small population in the spring.

It's a cool -1F here this AM and just checked a 6 over 6 NUC. Have 2 inches of Styrofoam and a wrap around. Bottom entrance is 1/2 wide by 3/8 and hole in feed rim is 1/2 round and a quilt box. Temp in the feed rim above the sugar blocks is a toasty 42F.


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## Cloverdale (Mar 26, 2012)

Hi Acebird, isn't the high count of varroa due to brood decline in August?


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## Cloverdale (Mar 26, 2012)

Hi Enjambres, so you also use insulation around your hives. I only wrapped this year but when the temps get a little higher I think I will put on some insulation. Regarding varroa, I have recently read two articles pointing to varroa not liking hotter temps/higher humidity.


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## Cloverdale (Mar 26, 2012)

An excerpt from the article: Derek & Elaine Mitchell, who have done some rigorous research into hive insulation and its effects. They have submitted their results for publication to the Journal of Apicultural Research. Here are some key points:

Q: Why do many sources say hives need lots of ventilation, but others stress warmth – which depends on minimum ventilation?

A: Much of the research was done around WW2, for example there was a key book published in 1947, and in those days wood was scarce and they did not have access to modern insulators like polystyrene or cellotex. The hives were thin walled and cold. In these conditions, to avoid damp and mould, yes, you need plenty of ventilation! But these days, we can make much warmer hives, which mimic the hollow trees bees evolved for, and in this case high humidity is better (high humidity helps bee egg survival and hampers varroa breeding) and there are no cold walls for damp to condense on and promote mould growth. For a well insulated hive, ventilation is undesirable.Apart from the desirability of high humidity arising from well sealed hives, high temperatures hinder varroa breeding, and suppress nosema and chalk brood, and promote grooming behaviour (which may also help versus varroa). And in general, better thermal control reduces early mortality – chilled brood don’t live long, even if they hatch into adult bees.

Interestingly, although not describing herself as a natural beekeeper, Elaine Mitchell has stopped varroa treatments. Her super-insulated Nationals, which use frames and foundation, have a few varroa but never in high enough numbers to hamper the colonies.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

The warm hives approach sure rings true for me. Granted my winter only comes six weeks at a time, it is still below zero right now. Soon my bees will start brooding a bit as they see the lengthening day rightthru that box. By late February, they will have lots of brood and any heat i can keep in that hive will help them enoumously. Then come spring and my hives stay wrapped for the same reason. In june our nights are still in the forties. Empirically it is working well as i have large splittable populations. Swarming is the issue not strugglingittle colonies tryi g to keep that little patch of brood warm. I prefer swarming problems.


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## Bear Creek Steve (Feb 18, 2009)

I am running a stack (very similar to Enj's description above in Post# 8) with R=10 foam on all four sides and built into the OC, no tar paper wrap this year for the first time in past seven years, upper and lower entries totaling 3/4 sq. in., 15-20% open SBB (restricted by rags), 68 deg. F and 39% RH above the cluster, 26 deg. F bee yard ambient temperature, brilliant clear sunny day with 8 inches of new snow. Data from 1 out of 12 colonies.

Regards,
Steve


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## Biermann (May 31, 2015)

Hello,

I am going to set two hives (2B + 2S) up like this, painted of-course.









Only the long sides are insulated year round, leaving lift points on the short sides. The short end get 2" Extruded Polystyrene Foam (XPS) on in the winter, like this:









and this:









It requires new bottom boards and a new lid, with 2" (XPS) and 1/4" wood cover so the bees don't eat-up the XPS, but I like to tinker around on things.

Additional two boxes will be normal, but insulated for the winter with 2" XPS all around.

My hive (second from top) has this morning 60F with 49% RH in the top center and 43F on the side with 46% RH. The outside temp. was -1F and 100% RH at the same time.

It is suppose to get warmer next week and I will crack the lid open when we have a sunny day.

@Vance: I like your optimism. Right now I only see cold, but super sunny:









Cheers, Joerg


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## Bear Creek Steve (Feb 18, 2009)

Joerg,

Looks good and you may find that that helps get brood rearing started a little earlier. Experiment and see what happens. One problem that I can see is that the foam on the long sides will take a beating over time and you may have to apply some sort of a protective skin on it to enhance its durability.

Steve


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

After you've found a huge upside down ice dome on the inner cover you decide you need more ventilation. If you never opened a hive in the winter and saw a dome like that, you probably think they need less ventilation when you find them dead. Wet bees don't last long in a cold snap. People come to different conclusions because they have had different experiences or made different observations.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Cloverdale said:


> Hi Acebird, isn't the high count of varroa due to brood decline in August?


I don't know the answer to that. Maybe it is. Maybe it is the heat. Maybe it is that most nectar has dried up and the bees have more time to groom. All I know is it happens.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Biermann said:


> My hive (second from top) has this morning 60F with 49% RH in the top center and 43F on the side with 46% RH. The outside temp. was -1F and 100% RH at the same time.


How do you get 100%RH at -1 degrees? I am wondering if your sensor is affected more by temperature then humidity.


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## Biermann (May 31, 2015)

Hi Brian,

The 100% outside correspond with my hair hygrometer also reading 100%.

Don't ask any further, you see the ice crystals on the shrubs. 

Cheers, Joerg


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## Colobee (May 15, 2014)

Thanks for sharing that, Deb.

One thing - if you put your bees in a "Natural tree cavity", and applied 20 watts of heat, that 60*C *rise* ( 140*f) would surely kill the mites.  If it were freezing out, the cavity would be at ~172*F (?) They state that these measurements are from actual hives - I wonder how they pulled that one off? What am I missing?

Having recently come across that Huang citation, high humidities appear to be one factor in varroa suppression. It stands to reason that low humidities may have the same effect. Varroa have a "preferred" humidity range, and begin to suffer outside that range. Identifying the fringes where bees do "OK" and varroa don't - that's a good place to focus.

Vance's mention that he bees "sense" the longer daylight - right through the well wrapped & insulated boxes suggest something else to consider. Have you ever seen an indoor plant "track" the sun, right through a solid, well insulated wall? I have. Some wavelengths of light/energy penetrate substantial man-made structures. The higher the elevation, the less atmosphere, the more penetration. 

Obviously, a balance must be struck between insulation & ventilation. We're only ~100 million years behind the bees in figuring out a "better" way to warm & ventilate our hives. 'Rather presumptuous, if you ask me. The majority of beekeepers ( & their bees) would probably benefit more from focusing on other issues, perhaps after providing minimal insulation and ventilation. 

Of course we're not talking about undersized hives & nucs that can use every bit of help we can conjure up.


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

I have come across bees that were in unheated barn walls (3/4" boards) that have survived the last two winters here. The last two were brutal to say the least. I have also seen trap outs that were actually exposed to the elements in the hollow crotch of a tree. Again, thriving. None of these were first year hives. I've also seen dozens of removals (and swarms) go to a few per year after the extreme two winters. Most of these bees were actually in the walls of heated homes. I'm not sure what to think of the insulation vs ventillation issue.


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## Rolande (Aug 23, 2010)

Colobee said:


> They state that these measurements are from actual hives - I wonder how they pulled that one off? What am I missing?


As I understand it, from what they've written on the British forums, they measured actual hives which didn't have any bees in them. Basically, they've taken a couple million readings from empty boxes.


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## Colino (May 28, 2013)

Another reason that ventilation is important is because higher hive humidity promotes brood rearing. That is one of the main reasons for feeding 1:1 syrup in the spring, it causes higher humidity levels in the hive for quicker build up. You do not want to start rearing brood too early in a northern climate. Also bees have a hormone controlled bypass system which extracts fluids from fecal matter when hive humidity is lower, therefore preventing an overloading of the intestinal tract during long winter confinement. Furthermore this system helps to conserve moisture at a time when it cannot be replenished from outside the hive. A hive is a combination of many things that work together if you strengthen one part you have to consider what its effect will be on the other parts.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

You can keep the heat in and still control moisture. You dont need rapid air exchange if you _wick_ the moisture away instead of moving it away with warm air. That is what shavings quilts accomplish. Lots of threads on them.

A lot of research and its resulting conclusions, do not have good controls on other survival factors so simply use survival as proof of concept is a pretty blunt instrument. If some colonies happened to have a summer brood break and others not, there goes the validity of the conclusions. Lots of other factors besides brood breaks also can similarly skew the accuracy of an experiment. There can be wild variance among people in what, for them, constitutes rigorous controls.

"The waving of tree limbs causes the wind to blow"


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## jhirsche (Jun 15, 2009)

Interesting thread... check out this guy on Facebook. http://www.facebook.com/rick.willams He's near either Donalda, Alberta or Dundurn, Saskatchewan (not too sure)... and appears to caps them with a metal sleeve / cover blocking all drafts. Watch his videos as to the activity inside his hives.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

jhirsche said:


> Interesting thread... check out this guy on Facebook. http://www.facebook.com/rick.willams


His videos are always interesting. Cold cold cold and those bees are all over in there.  I wonder where he stores all of those covers or if they serve another purpose during the regular season?


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## Cloverdale (Mar 26, 2012)

crofter said:


> You can keep the heat in and still control moisture. You dont need rapid air exchange if you _wick_ the moisture away instead of moving it away with warm air. That is what shavings quilts accomplish. Lots of threads on them.
> 
> A lot of research and its resulting conclusions, do not have good controls on other survival factors so simply use survival as proof of concept is a pretty blunt instrument. If some colonies happened to have a summer brood break and others not, there goes the validity of the conclusions. Lots of other factors besides brood breaks also can similarly skew the accuracy of an experiment. There can be wild variance among people in what, for them, constitutes rigorous controls.
> 
> ...


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

Colino said:


> Another reason that ventilation is important is because higher hive humidity promotes brood rearing. That is one of the main reasons for feeding 1:1 syrup in the spring, it causes higher humidity levels in the hive for quicker build up. You do not want to start rearing brood too early in a northern climate. Also bees have a hormone controlled bypass system which extracts fluids from fecal matter when hive humidity is lower, therefore preventing an overloading of the intestinal tract during long winter confinement. Furthermore this system helps to conserve moisture at a time when it cannot be replenished from outside the hive. A hive is a combination of many things that work together if you strengthen one part you have to consider what its effect will be on the other parts.


 Colino! You have been studying and drawing logical conclusions! Thanks for your insights.


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## Cloverdale (Mar 26, 2012)

Colino"That is one of the main reasons for feeding 1:1 syrup in the spring, it causes higher humidity levels in the hive for quicker build up."

I did not know that, I thought 1:1 was strictly for feeding/comb building, not humidity. As mentioned by Colobee and others it is finding the correct ratio between how much insulation and ventilation is needed. I agree that the bees know best, but being a managed animal we take them from what they might want to do naturally for winter prep. Bees surviving in barn walls and outside hives over winter, well, I would call them Viking Bees! Definitely a strain you would want in your bee yard. I like the way Enjambres does her hives; that will be a wintering strategy for me this winter. As Michael B mentioned above I have never lost a hive to wet bees but to mites and starvation, and temperature fluctuations where they cannot get back together to form a cluster. The first two I have taken care of but really want to find a way to keep them warmer so as not to have the later happen.


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## Cloverdale (Mar 26, 2012)

jhirsche said:


> Interesting thread... check out this guy on Facebook. http://www.facebook.com/rick.willams He's near either Donalda, Alberta or Dundurn, Saskatchewan (not too sure)... and appears to caps them with a metal sleeve / cover blocking all drafts. Watch his videos as to the activity inside his hives.


I see he wraps well and insulates.


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## Cloverdale (Mar 26, 2012)

jwcarlson said:


> His videos are always interesting. Cold cold cold and those bees are all over in there.  I wonder where he stores all of those covers or if they serve another purpose during the regular season?


I notice in his pic on his home page he has an insulated (or styrofoam?) hive pictured there. 
I was thinking of trying one from BetterBee.


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## jadebees (May 9, 2013)

I like to use a box size piece of sleeping bag or comforter, 2 layers thick over the inner cover, in a shim. It lets out moisture, and is warm . As with foam, you find the cluster right on top in the center. If moisture can't get out, you can get frost and icicles in there. Thats the benefit of the Warre hive quilt, it transpires water very well.


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## Dominic (Jul 12, 2013)

Michael Bush said:


> After you've found a huge upside down ice dome on the inner cover you decide you need more ventilation. If you never opened a hive in the winter and saw a dome like that, you probably think they need less ventilation when you find them dead. Wet bees don't last long in a cold snap. People come to different conclusions because they have had different experiences or made different observations.


I've overwintered many hives with almost no ventilation whatsoever (no top entrance, entrance reducer's smallest host, solid bottom board), but with a lot of insulation. I only noticed moisture in a very small percentage of my deadouts, and certainly did not observe any ice (dome or otherwise) in any of those hives. I was not aware of anyone advocating for no ventilation when I did that, though. How much insulation did these hives have, to form such a dome?

Our winters may differ, however. Apparently the difference is just a few degrees, though, but relative humidity might not be the same nor day lengths.

I'm honestly not sure what the "science" would be on the topic, though. With cattle, they say that adequate ventilation is required, because humidity will kill the cattle quicker than the cold will. The same argument is transposed to bees, but bees are not cattle (or humans, or any other typical mammal), because bees have wings that take up a significant portion of their body mass, and with them, they can *fan*. Bees control the humidity in the hive during summer, so it should be reasonable to assume that if they aren't clustered too tightly, they might just be able to do it in winter as well, if the hive is properly insulated.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Dominic said:


> but bees are not cattle (or humans, or any other typical mammal),


Correct, but like all mammals they do breath and consume oxygen. The breath is what has the moisture in it. Each and every location will have a different set of circumstances. And each and every year will have variations. It is these variations that we have to watch out for and base our practices on the variables.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Increasing ventilation is easier to do than adding warmth. Easier and more economical.


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## Dominic (Jul 12, 2013)

Acebird said:


> Correct, but like all mammals they do breath and consume oxygen. The breath is what has the moisture in it. Each and every location will have a different set of circumstances. And each and every year will have variations. It is these variations that we have to watch out for and base our practices on the variables.


Indeed, there is no denying that.

If anyone is aware of any scientific trials on the subject, I would be overjoyed to see it. What I find is either based on tradition, dogma, or at best theoretical research that may not apply to field conditions.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>How much insulation did these hives have, to form such a dome?

Insulation can certainly help somewhat with condensation by making a warmer interior surface which will cause less condensation, but the moisture still has to go somewhere.

Some were wrapped in insulation.
http://www.bushfarms.com/images/ApartmentNucsWrappedInFoam.jpg

Some were not.
http://www.bushfarms.com/images/TBHinWInter.jpg

You can see a stack of hives insulated with styrofoam and you can see a Bee Max styrofoam hive in the center on the right. That one had a lot of condensation issues.

>Increasing ventilation is easier to do than adding warmth. Easier and more economical.

Yes.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

">Increasing ventilation is easier to do than adding warmth. Easier and more economical.

Yes."

One of the things Michael Bush and I agree on.


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## Charlie King (Apr 27, 2014)

This article rings very true for me in the UK. Slowdrone is quite correct about the climate though , it is very different from every state in America! 90+% humidity is the norm here, especially this year. However, I still think this article is applicable to the northernish parts of the US.

I am using well insulated top bar hives and poly hives which also have a super with a pillow in between a plastic transparent crown board and below the roof. All screened bottoms are sealed off and entrance reduced on all to a few bee spaces.

It's only my second winter but the poly hives are flying at much colder temps and I'm not seeing any condensation whatsoever when peaking under the pillows to view the crown board. One of the poly hives is overwintering on 2 frames and flying at cooler temps than a large established TBH ! The TBHs are 2" lumber with insulated roofs. 

Amazing to see the results of the insulation of a tree cavity , even poly hives have a long way to go it seems!! My next project will be a poly TBH if I find some time and energy


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## Cloverdale (Mar 26, 2012)

Charlie King said:


> This article rings very true for me in the UK. Slowdrone is quite correct about the climate though , it is very different from every state in America! 90+% humidity is the norm here, especially this year. However, I still think this article is applicable to the northernish parts of the US.
> 
> I am using well insulated top bar hives and poly hives which also have a super with a pillow in between a plastic transparent crown board and below the roof. All screened bottoms are sealed off and entrance reduced on all to a few bee spaces.
> 
> ...


I agree with you about the northern US. It is wet where I am thus Catskill Mtns NY. I was looking at the poly hives too, wanting to give them a try. I know ventilation is important but so are warmer bees.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Charlie King said:


> One of the poly hives is overwintering on 2 frames and flying at cooler temps than a large established TBH !


Two frames of bees is barely a nuc which is not going to produce much moisture. I would say insulate the heck out of that hive if it only has two frames of bees. If we are going to talk about something normal for the northeast then it would be in the two deep range and now you have some moisture to deal with. Or rather the bees do.


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## Slow Drone (Apr 19, 2014)

Acebird said:


> Two frames of bees is barely a nuc which is not going to produce much moisture. I would say insulate the heck out of that hive if it only has two frames of bees. If we are going to talk about something normal for the northeast then it would be in the two deep range and now you have some moisture to deal with. Or rather the bees do.


It's about warm and humid hives opposed to well ventilated hives it's not about the northeast Ace.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Slow Drone said:


> It's about warm and humid hives opposed to well ventilated hives it's not about the northeast Ace.


Insulating the heck out of a hive would be pointless in southern states don't you think? The warmer the climate is the more the hive needs ventilation either by a chimney effect or by the bees fanning. Even in my neck of the woods you will see bearding on a hot summer day. The bees do this for two reasons. One to eliminate the heat gain from their little active bodies and two to stop the congestion of the hive so more air can pass through it.


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## Charlie King (Apr 27, 2014)

There's no condensation on the full size hives either Ace. Interestingly, the trays covering the screened bottoms are rather wet , they must be the coldest surface inside which makes sense as they are very thin in comparison. Still, that works in the bees favour having the moisture below them. 

Your questions about the bearding bees depend on if the hives are heating up from direct sunlight (radiation) or high air temps (convection) . They could certainly benefit if it's the sun beating down on them as insulation works both ways.. Not that this article was designed for such a climate anyway.

It's all about emulating nature really, when you get really hot climates bees abandon the need for a cavity all together and build out in the open. Says it all really, Watch and learn from them 

They certainly approve in rainy England !


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## Slow Drone (Apr 19, 2014)

Your right Ace not for the south only following an interesting subject. England is a very very humid climate think about it their country is completely surrounded by water. I've always found it interesting how beekeeping methods are adapted from one climate to different climates. What works in one climate isn't always adaptable in another. For example because of my climate I can overwinter 4 frame singles something I don't believe I could do in Canada because of their extreme climate.


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## Colino (May 28, 2013)

Dominic said:


> Indeed, there is no denying that.
> 
> If anyone is aware of any scientific trials on the subject, I would be overjoyed to see it. What I find is either based on tradition, dogma, or at best theoretical research that may not apply to field conditions.


There is an interesting video on "The National Honey Show" YouTube channel that may interest you. 
https://youtu.be/Pok9lAs-QR0


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