# Best methods of correcting cross / curved comb?



## cgybees (Apr 20, 2015)

On my third inspection of my new TBH, I found some curved comb..I made some efforts to correct, but I'm wondering if we can create a list of better suggestions / methods for remedying curved / cross combs - pictures would be excellent and would likely help a lot of new TBH bee-keepers. 

Pics of my inspection: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1617886005124568.1073741834.1603587486554420&type=3


Entrance
Bar 1 - wired in drawn comb provided with package. New comb on edges curved very slightly towards front. Left as is.
Bar 2 - added on this inspection (inserted between previously drawn)
Bar 3 - wired in drawn comb provided with package. Drawn out straight.
Bar 4 - previously drawn comb, drawn straight.
Bar 5 - badly curved comb (prior to this inspection was bar 10.)
Spacer - needed to accomodate bee space as curve couldn't be completely corrected.
Bar 6 - previously drawn straight comb
Bar 7 - added on this inspection (inserted between previously drawn)
Bar 8 - previously drawn straight comb
Bar 9 - previously drawn straight comb
Bar 10 - very slightly curved comb (the start of my curved comb issue).
Bar 11 - noticeably curved comb, but all on the same bar with no cross comb
Bar 12 - Comb started in 2 sections, might have ended up as a double / overlap.Moved back to centerline and pressed sections together at center.
Bar 13 - Straight drawn comb that prior to this inspection was bar 5 - moved to back to provide straight guide for further comb.
Bar 14 - barely started comb - should now get drawn out straight with replacement bar 12 as a guide.
Bar 15 - empty bar, added this inspection

Not usually reccommended to shuffle the order of bars in the brood area, from what I understand, but I didn't feel I had a better option here.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

Some bees do better than others when it comes to making foundationless comb. 
Some require attention as they go. It's your call what your keep and make them remake. The quicker you correct it, the easier it will be.

Best plan it to put an empty between two good frames of brood or capped honey. One good comb leads to another.


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## JakeDatc (Apr 19, 2010)

Slice along the top of the curved part and make it straight. they will reattach it, hopefully where it should be.


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## cgybees (Apr 20, 2015)

JakeDatc said:


> Slice along the top of the curved part and make it straight. they will reattach it, hopefully where it should be.


Basically what I did. I've seen some people using tape slings - not sure that would have worked with mine. Anyone ever use a hat-pin to pin it in the right place?


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## mhorowit (Sep 25, 2011)

cgybees said:


> Basically what I did. I've seen some people using tape slings - not sure that would have worked with mine. Anyone ever use a hat-pin to pin it in the right place?


I've use upholstery pins; same thing - Mike


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## lobudget (Mar 8, 2015)

This has been the most difficult part for me so far. I've lost 3 partial combs out of the 6 that i've had to adjust over the last month.

They are so new and so full of nectar that they see to just melt in your hand and turn into a giant mess when I've tried to save them using the hair clip method. 

Yesterdays inspection went better and I think that I'm starting to get the hang of it. I adjusted 3 more without incident and I'll check back in a week to see if they kept them straight. 

If there is nothing in the curved part, but a bit of nectar. What happens if you just cut that part off? Will they just build it crooked again or is it just a crap shoot that they will do it straight the second time?


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## cgybees (Apr 20, 2015)

lobudget said:


> If there is nothing in the curved part, but a bit of nectar. What happens if you just cut that part off? Will they just build it crooked again or is it just a crap shoot that they will do it straight the second time?


My guess is they will build it curved again, unless you change something else, because the same things in the hive that made them want to curve it in the first place are still there.


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## fruitveggirl (Mar 8, 2013)

I flip the bars around when it is just starting to curve. That makes the bee space tighter, and the bees will correct it. The best thing I've found though is to prevent it by making sure you always put new bars between really straight comb.


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## Sovek (Apr 27, 2014)

Yeah, your best method to making sure they are going to draw out straight is to place empty bars/frames (especially on a flow) is in between straight drawn bars/frames. When I upsized my first hive from their 8 frame deep to a 16/17 frame 2 ft hive I placed empty frames in between the drawn out frames. Within days they were all pretty much drawn out and pretty darn straight. 

PS fruitveggirl, I love your blog, its fun to watch someone with a TBH chronicle their progress as it goes. I'm actually getting ready do to major update to my post and the changes that have happened over the past month, including the addition of a third package, a new hive for the first one, and the issues that have (I think) finally been solved with the second.


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## fruitveggirl (Mar 8, 2013)

Sovek said:


> PS fruitveggirl, I love your blog, its fun to watch someone with a TBH chronicle their progress as it goes. I'm actually getting ready do to major update to my post and the changes that have happened over the past month, including the addition of a third package, a new hive for the first one, and the issues that have (I think) finally been solved with the second.


Thanks, Sovek! It's always nice to hear feedback!  I've been thinking about doing a horizontal Lang, but I haven't quite built up enough steam to start building that. I'm going to check in on your post to see what kind of issues you've been having and how you've resolving. Keep up those updates!


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## cgybees (Apr 20, 2015)

fruitveggirl said:


> Thanks, Sovek! It's always nice to hear feedback!  I've been thinking about doing a horizontal Lang, but I haven't quite built up enough steam to start building that. I'm going to check in on your post to see what kind of issues you've been having and how you've resolving. Keep up those updates!


I'm doing something similar re: chronicling learnings on new bee-keeping and TBH setups here:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Backyard-Buzz/1603587486554420


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## ShannaRose (Feb 10, 2015)

Cross combs are obviously the main problem that comes up with new beekeepers. Read Les Crowders book Top Bar BeeKeeping. I have corresponded with him and he told me that he has over 100 tb hives with little or no cross combing. On the topic of the best comb guides (triangular, wax dipped (bad), popsicle sticks), I find they will do what they want if you don't interfere no matter the comb guide. I recently went into a hive that had not been managed at all since bees were installed 2 months before, and they completely ignored the comb guides- it may have well have been a wild hive in a tree! Les rarely uses any comb guides once the bees are established in a hive- just plain bars. People say it over and over and I had to learn the hard way, but "One straight Comb Leads to Another" is the best mantra for tbh'ers. 

If you want to straighten things out, go in and see if any that are attached at the top only can be gently separated, and butter the cut edge with a hive tool gently. It's OK if a little honey drips. If a piece falls off pick it up and remove it- never leave on the bottom of hive it can attract beetles. I ended up totally removing a 3 bar attached comb mess even though there was brood- they will make more this time of year. Hopefully you can find at least one or maybe 2 straight combs-often they are in the brood nest. Move these to the end of the already built combs, and place an empty bar between them. If you go in every 2 weeks or even every 10 days in the beginning to keep combs straight you will be rewarded. When you find the last new comb in the process of being built, move it back between the last 2 straight combs. Les Crowder does this every time he opens a hive. This gives the bees the message to build straight.

When I was a beginner I didnt want to go in often because I was clumsy and made the bees unhappy. I was stung often and my bees were somehwhgat aggressive- I didn't blame them. Now that I have straight combs they hardly know I am there and are so calm and easy to work with- that's the reward for straight combs. Now when I start a new hive with a swarm or a split I go in every few days to a week for the first few weeks to make sure they don't build any cross combs at all. When combs are soft and new you can bend them around if you need to to straighten them. If needed I will bring a straight comb or 2 from another hive, put an empty between them and get them on track.

Hope this helps. I think most tbh beeks have these problems and there are many ways to correct them, but the best is to remove the most difficult 2 and 3 bar connected combs and start over to get them on track, Your beekeeping experience will become such a joy- mine did! A friend who works with a local beek who doesn't take the time to create straight combs recently helped me, and could not believe the difference in the calmness of my bees, and the ease in working with them

ShannaRose in Hawaii


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

I check new hives or new swarms that are foundationless every 3-4 days until I'm satisfied that they'll be pretty straight. That basically means until the bulk of the bars or frames are built out to the full length of the top bar. I caught a swarm May 25th and have straightened combs three or four times. Last night was probably the worst they'd been, but they are now almost completely built to width so even if they curve now I can cut a chunk out and not be out much drawn comb if it gets bad on the edges. Once they have nice straight combs if a bar or frame is in between they draw it pretty straight. If the last comb is straight, they seem to build the next one pretty straight too. 

You absolutely HAVE to stay on top of it if you want to be able to manage your bees. All my frames and top bars are 1.25", I do have some cut to 1.5" for "honey" in some of my TBHs though.


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## cgybees (Apr 20, 2015)

ShannaRose said:


> Hope this helps. I think most tbh beeks have these problems and there are many ways to correct them, but the best is to remove the most difficult 2 and 3 bar connected combs and start over to get them on track, Your beekeeping experience will become such a joy- mine did! A friend who works with a local beek who doesn't take the time to create straight combs recently helped me, and could not believe the difference in the calmness of my bees, and the ease in working with them
> 
> ShannaRose in Hawaii


I will be picking up a lang hive this week, so one decent point is that I can always transfer badly curved comb into a lang frame and rubber band it in, push it flat rather than try to reattach to the top bar, (which I've had less success with), I suppose. Ohwell... every day I learn something new...


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## Jon Wolff (Apr 28, 2013)

If you already have straight drawn comb, keeping new comb straight is simple, as the others have mentioned, by placing empty bars between straight comb. But if it's a new hive with only empty bars, you first need to make sure the hive is level and your bars have really good guides. I use wedges, but others swear by 1" strips of foundation waxed into grooves. If your comb is curving and it tears due to it's newness when you correct it, maybe a cardboard sling like this can help. Leave the comb in the hive and staple one end of a strip of cardboard to the top of the bar, bend it over and bring it under the comb, and then staple it to the other side of the bar.


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## cgybees (Apr 20, 2015)

That's creative!

I was amazed... I had two bars that had dropped comb that I tried to correct, one I tried to wire on a couple weeks ago with no success..the wires sliced through and the comb was sitting in the bottom, although vertical / upright. The other, I tried to rubber band on, again with little success as when I opened it it was obvious it had fallen off again. However in both cases they had reattached it to the top bar well enough that I did a minor trim on one at the bottom where it was flattened / bent sideways, and left the other alone - have to move them veeeeeeery carefully because they're not fully reattached yet, but I was quite surprised they reattached it and that it held together and wasn't burr combed to the next one, etc..


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## Jon Wolff (Apr 28, 2013)

Yeah, sometimes we get lucky. I'm testing the cardboard sling idea right now to see how well the bees reattach the comb and remove the cardboard from the hive.


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## cgybees (Apr 20, 2015)

Jon Wolff said:


> Yeah, sometimes we get lucky. I'm testing the cardboard sling idea right now to see how well the bees reattach the comb and remove the cardboard from the hive.


I was relatively amazed at how well they repaired some of my mistakes when I went back in yesterday... photos for the interested here:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1626104010969434.1073741836.1603587486554420&type=3


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