# Sucrocide; Who's Confused???



## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

Here are some quotes I find interesting . . .

". . . amount required per full frame of bees is approx. 0.75 oz per side" - ABJ, 6/04, p476.

"2-3 fl oz of mixed solution is used per colony" - ABJ, 7/05, p583.

"Deliver approx 6 oz of material between each frame in a single box" - ABJ, 10/05, p794.

". . . or 3 oz for both stacked boxes" - ABJ, 10/05, p803.


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## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

ABJ prints exactly what the authors of the articles
write, making no attempt to fact-check, edit,
or correct the content.

So what matters here is who wrote what, and
who you want to trust. I'm guessing that
the product comes with some sort of instructions,
but I have no idea which "dosage" is correct.


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## Bob Harrison (Mar 15, 2005)

Interesting. Joe Graham (ABJ) has never published an article of mine without at least some edit.

Bee Culture has left alone most except for two and they removed all but what I had high lighted as important to the story line. Possibly to make the articles fit in the magazine. 

Not a big deal but can make understanding what the author is trying to say difficult when severely edited.

Dave W. has taken the above out of context which makes understanding hard. 

Sucrocide use is not rocket science. Mix the sucrocide at the 2-3 oz. per gallon and coat bees. What could be simpler. spray on, pour on, dunk your bees, spray the mixture out of a squirt gun. Does not matter as long as the mixture CONTACTS the varroa. Field bees in the field and varroa in sealed cells will still be in the hive so repeat treatments are needed.

No gas mask, rubber gloves, chaps or protective items needed! Take a bath in the stuff and won't hurt you! 

No comb contamination! Certainly not as easy as dropping an chemical strip in the bee hive but what the organic crowd asked for! Sucrocide is the safest product to the beekeeper, honey and brood comb on the market. A close second would be shaking powdered sugar on your bees.

Bob


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Not admitting to anything here.... but don't get it in your eyes.It feels like glue.


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## Aspera (Aug 1, 2005)

Bob,

I just bought some sucrocide and was wondering what you think of trickling or deluging the top of the hive. Is this a bad idea? It would really simplify treatment.


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

Rob Harrison . . .

>Dave W. has taken the above out of context which makes understanding hard. 

Can you give us clarity to each of the above statements?


>Mix the sucrocide at the 2-3 oz. per gallon 

The label says to use 1-1/2 oz per TWO gallons.


>pour on, dunk your bees, spray the mixture out of a squirt gun.

NOT PER LABEL - Where did you get this?

Sucrocide use is not rocket science????


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## Bob Harrison (Mar 15, 2005)

Whats your varroa load? The best results are had by removing each frame and spraying both sides. Repeat at the correct timing. The less sealed brood the better.
Sucrocide will not save a hive over threshold. We have used sucrocide to knock back a growing varroa load with supers on by pulling supers and doing as you describe. Sucrocide takes effort to work and not letting varroa loads get away from you.
Sucrocide will kill a varroa mite if it comes in contact with the mite.


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## Bob Harrison (Mar 15, 2005)

I was told one to three ounces per gallon but I was part of the original Dadant testing. My guess is the amount has changed and less of a mixture is needed for varroa kill. 
The rules are you can always use *less* of a product but not more. In that case then if the current label says 1-11/2 oz. per two gallons then that is the max you can legally use. From your dates above I believe the label wording has changed.
The first Api Life Var label was for two treatments at 2/3 tab and now the label is for 3 treaments at a full tab.
My last years testing showed two tabs if done correctly worked fine. It is legal to use only two. One tab might working the broodless period.
Dave you are reading way to much into the application of sucrocide. The mix is all the Fda cares about. Period! The squirt gun was a joke but the other methods are in use today along with spraying from a hand sprayer.
Hundreds of beekeepers are dunking packages in sucrocide solution.


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

Mr. Harrison . . .

I'm sorry you didnt answers my questions.

You sound like "your record is stuck"


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

Mr Harrison . . .

Sorry AGAIN!

Boy, your FAST!







Guess I should have waited.

Thank you.


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

Mr Harrison . . .

>one to three ounces per gallon . . .
>2-3 oz. per gallon . . .
OR 0.75 oz per gallon

Does it matter?


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## Bob Harrison (Mar 15, 2005)

What does the label now say? Thats what you go by.

Checkmite label was changed after the product hit the market. Makers change labels all the time.

You can legally use the less amount or any less amount you want and do testing.

Most products recommend the max dose to kill even in extreme situations. 

I would not be the least bit suprised if you got a excellent kill at the .75 oz. per gallon.

We NEVER used more then one checkmite strip in a hive and only treated once a year. Saved the price of 3-5 strips per year (by not treating spring & fall as per label) and less comb contamination. Legal!

We also knew our varroa loads before and after treatment.


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## JLD (Jan 27, 2005)

So... are people getting good results just spraying into the tops of the hive?


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## JLD (Jan 27, 2005)

So... are people getting good results just spraying into the tops of the hive?


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## Bob Harrison (Mar 15, 2005)

Not from those I have talked to. To get good results each frame needs removed and the bees soaked. You will think you are killing your bees but they do recover.
I have not tried the new Jerry Hayes method as wrote about in ABJ. The whole sucrocide process is a bit time and labor consuming for my operation. I have tried on a small scale but decided to not use on a larger scale.


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## GaSteve (Apr 28, 2004)

The instructions currently call for 3 tablespoons per 2 gallons of water. More than that and testing has shown the bee mortality becomes significant. I suppose many application methods could be used, as long as you get the stuff in contact with the mites.

>I just bought some sucrocide and was wondering what you think of trickling or deluging the top of the hive

As long as the right concentration contacts the mites, it should be fine. The bees can easily drown though if they can't get out of a puddle of it.

Personally, I think Sucrocide works pretty well but I wonder if you can't get the same effect with powdered sugar with a whole lot less work.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

I did a couple hundred 2story hives with the spray down from the top method this summer.I sprayed each box.After 2 treatments ,I gave it up.It was obvious this method does NOT wet bees very far down on the frames,and it was very disruptive to the bees as they would start spilling over the sides of the boxes.I make splits with bulk bees every year.I will likely use it on these as the splits are made up and that would seem the best use for my purposes.


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

I have "pulled frames" and "sprayed down", while using both methods, I have never seen bees "spilling over the sides" as if they were "running" form the liquid. Just the opposite occurs . . . they seem to "freeze" in place. 

And yes, it seems to be VERY DISRUPTIVE! Three or more treatments, 7 to 10 apart as perscribed on label, could mean the bees have not "tended to hive duties" for 30 days or longer.


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

Maybe Im "reading way to much into the application of sucrocide" as Rob Harrison suggests . . .

But . . . when I read the label, it says to "use a 0.625% v/v solution".

I find it interesting that "3 tablespoons in 2 gallons of water, is NOT a 0.625% rate.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Maybe spilling over the sides wasnt the best description.Not like 'bees running'It was the wet bees moving away from the frames and over the edges making it difficult to close up the hives without smashing bees. I worried that a queen would get smashed .In any case I wont be using it in that manner anymore.


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## DGB (Feb 9, 2006)

The label reads 
3 TBS for 2 gal water
1 cup for 10 gal
1 pint for 20 gal


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