# Bee Shield



## Keith Jarrett

babybee said:


> He claimed some wild almost unbelievable things


I have heard the same..... taking a wait & see approuch


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## irwin harlton

May 7, 2013 at 1:27 pm

Hello,

I am reaching out to you because of our common interest in the livelihood of bees, and our food supply. We have been very successful and proud to have a 100% organically certified solution called Bee Shield, to protect and nutritionally support bee colonies. I want to share with you Bee Shield’s benefits. We have been helping other beekeepers and farmers, and the results are very impressive in the following ways:

* Protects against black queen cell virus
* Increased viral resistance
* Increased production
* Increased nutritional uptake
* Protects against pesticides (systemic pesticides)
* Increased parasite resistance
* Field results show 99% effective

Bee Shield comes in a spray that is applied directly onto the working bees. There is also a concentrated solution that is sprayed at the opening of the beehive that the bees love (no sugar added). And, we have added a spray for hobbyists.

Your feedback is important to us. I may also put you in touch with our Beekeeper.

Frankie Perez
Sales
1st Light Trading, LLC
909 520-5064
[email protected]
Reply


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## jim lyon

.....but wait, there's more. Order in the next 20 minutes and receive a second shipment of amazing Bee Shield absolutely free, you will only be billed for shipping and handling......


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## Keith Jarrett

That was priceless... Jimmy LOL


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## sharpdog

Keith Jarrett said:


> That was priceless... Jimmy LOL


Almost, except for shipping and handling.


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## babybee

He didn't even bring a sample to the meeting which was strange. And didn't say what it is made out of other than organic materials.


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## beeshield

Other beekeepers do use it, we are getting scientific testing completed in next few weeks from today which I know was a little off from what i said at the show, but science is never exact. I didn't bring any with me as I'm from California and couldn't bring it on plane they took my wine and honey the SDBA gave me on the way back. Plus you should keep track of our website as it always has our updates and will post findings of science study. www.1stlighttrading.com and I can give you numbers of people who use it and love it. I will see you guys at next years show which it would be nice to go to South Dakota again its beautiful there and tell John Stollis thanks for the candy it was delicious.


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## Oldtimer

I used to have a marine aquarium which grew fish of course but also live corals, shellfish and other organisms.

These things live by extracting stuff from the water so you have to dose an array of products into the tank to keep everything healthy. There is some heavy duty study and time involved in running one of these tanks properly and many nubees start but fail.

All long time reef tank owners become aware of the good and bad products but for nubees it's a minefield. After quite a few years in the hobby I started getting a feel for sassing if a product is genuine.

This has given rise to a whole industry of questionable aquarium products for sale. They are sold in shops because the claims are so ill defined and the science explained but never fully, that even the shop owners struggle to sort out what is and isn't genuine.

Only 1/2 hour before reading this post I was reading our local bee mag is advertising a product that to me, looks like snake oil. Then, I come to this thread and see another. I think it's starting to happen in the bee world.


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## kbfarms

I think it would have been worth the $25 bag fee to bring some to the meeting and then you could have checked the honey and wine for the return trip. Surely you are aware of the 3oz carryon limit. You could have carried on a sample size or if checked, a larger size and left it for some folks to try out. I give away free samples of my honey as its a quality product. Once tasted, I have a customer.


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## beeshield

No i was not aware of the 3 oz limit it was my first flight in around 20 years, so I got to learn the hard way. Gentleman I know that this product is so far from the norm that it sounds like snake oil as there is nothing on the market that claims to control pesticides, but the product will speak for itself in time as you begin to hear more from it and the scientific studies continue you to grow I am not just in this to get to your pocket books as I have a love for the bee and Honey especially honey. At a point in time in reference to your coral reef comment- Man once thought the world was flat and it was a crime punishable by death for saying otherwise yet people did, people said that man would never fly, yet here we are thanks to the wright brothers determination against all odds, I understand that it is an uphill battle gentleman and I still have some hoops to jump through which I am willing to do, not only to help the industry regain its ability to grow again but to ensure that younger generations know what its like to have choice in foods and the sweet success of honey


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## beeshield

“If the genius of invention were to reveal to-morrow the secret of immortality, of eternal beauty and youth, for which all humanity is aching, the same inexorable agents which prevent a mass from changing suddenly its velocity would likewise resist the force of the new knowledge until time gradually modifies human thought.”Nikola Tesla


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## jim lyon

We all anxiously await the scientific proof of the claimed 99% effectiveness in protecting bees from pesticides.


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## justin

i already treat, medicate, lavish my hives with several other natural products and chemicals. would your product be duplicating any of these? beekeepers want to be completely aware of what they are putting in their colonies. if i just trusted the claims my kids would be having rich chocolaty Ovaltine for supper tonight. justin


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## Oldtimer

beeshield said:


> but the product will speak for itself in time as you begin to hear more from it and the scientific studies continue you to grow


Please reference some of these scientific studies that are continuing to grow, that will put this matter to rest.

That is of course, unless in reality there are no scientific studies.

Back to my marine aquarium experience, hearing from others who claim success often turns out to be meaningless. A guy was for years selling a very high priced product and publishing glowing user reviews. Some had their doubts though and eventually had the product tested. It was water with a little food colouring and sugar.

Being light on science but claiming people who do not tow the line are akin to flat earthers, can't accept anything new, etc, is another thing that rings bells for me in my experience with purveyors of snake oil. 

Not saying your product is snake oil, just, that the language, presentation, and claims, push all the right buttons.

The science you speak of, let's see it.

And oh. You are not going to say you cannot reveal the science because it's secret. Are you.


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## beeshield

As i stated in my original thread the studies are to be completed in a week or two, as being a new company I don't have the giant financial resources to pay for $20,000 tests from multitudes of researchers, it is through open minded beekeepers that know these scientists that are helping me accomplish these tests, as they understand that a closed mind doesn't allow for progress and it takes risk to gain innovation, I can understand how lately all kinds of people have been coming up with the answer to problems and beekeepers have been burned on it several times, so I know beekeepers are becoming more cautious, even though it has been show that using nosema treatment and mite treatments leave residues and harm the bees themselves, but they are still being used in some cases doing more harm then good, I am not being light on science I can tell you exactly how the product works and why in a fairly complicated scientific manner, but i see that in some cases I have a brick wall to break down as I already stated the independent scientific studies are coming, but it seems that's not what is read what is read is the attempt to show that I have some malicious agenda towards bees and the keepers that I am here to just rob you guys blind and move on to the next victim 
, so as I said the tests are almost done and yes more are being performed even after these results come out which is what I mean by the statement that they are growing as I am trying to get into the South Dakota's program to show how Bee shield effects hive strength and tolerance to the outside factors that have been harming this industry. So I ask you gentleman to be patient and I will remove all of these concerns in time as I love science and the way it is methodical and ever changing we used to do bleeding and consume mercury for longevity we learn from mistakes to move forward and I feel that a mistake I hope that some don't make is the belief that I'm not here for the long haul.I believe that nature provides a cure for everything.


Friends are as companions on a journey, who ought to aid each other to persevere in the road to a happier life.
Pythagoras 
the first man to say the world was round

The oldest, shortest words - 'yes' and 'no' - are those which require the most thought.
Pythagoras


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## Oldtimer

OK, so as I suspected, the truth, is there are no scientific studies.



beeshield said:


> I am not being light on science I can tell you exactly how the product works and why in a fairly complicated scientific manner


Please go ahead. It would need to be better than what passes for science on your web site though. What is on your web site is not science, it is a bunch of claims, without evidence or proof, dressed up to look like science.

Beeshield, if I invented a bee health product and put it on the market, it would be backed by solid scientific data showing that it works as claimed. If I couldn't do that, I wouldn't put it on the market.


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## rwurster

Old Timer, the only person on BeeSource who's opinion matters to me, whether it be graftless queen rearing, beekeeping, or pointing out snake oil salesmen... 
Cheers mate  

I thought the same thing when I saw the thread but hey, we all have to try lol


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## bbrowncods

Where are the credentials? Any advanced degrees? I mean one would think that in order to make a product that protects an insect from insecticides one would need some type of advanced study behind them. Assuming you are the inventor and not a hired salesman.

"it is through open minded beekeepers that know these scientists that are helping me accomplish these tests"
Got any names?

How many bee hives have you ever owned?

On a forum ones credibility is usually directly contributable to their number of posts, unless they introduce themselves and provide a summary of their credentials. I see nut'en but four posts (all on this thread).


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## jim lyon

Beeshield: You may well have developed a pretty good product, at this point I wouldn't know. My advice to you, though, is ratchet back the hyperbole a bit. Present your field trials, or whatever data you have for what they are which are, most likely, promising results and encourage folks to give it a try. I mean what the heck does 99% effectiveness really mean? I wouldn't be surprised if ole Pythagorus would have given you the same advice.


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## Honey-4-All

beeshield said:


> As i stated in my original thread the studies are to be completed in a week or two, as being a new company I don't have the giant financial resources to pay for $20,000 tests from multitudes of researchers,


One simple and quick question. Since you state your from Atwater I'd like to know if you are related or have ever been involved with the people who run the "Shamrock" bee business in your area?


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## Ian

irwin harlton said:


> Bee Shield comes in a spray that is applied directly onto the working bees.


wouldnt Oxalic acid spray do the same thing, by controlling the mites?

*Protects against black queen cell virus
* Increased viral resistance
* Increased production
* Increased nutritional uptake
* Protects against pesticides (systemic pesticides)
* Increased parasite resistance
* Field results show 99% effective


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## jim lyon

Ian said:


> wouldnt Oxalic acid spray do the same thing, by controlling the mites?
> 
> *Protects against black queen cell virus
> * Increased viral resistance
> * Increased production
> * Increased nutritional uptake
> * Protects against pesticides (systemic pesticides)
> * Increased parasite resistance
> * Field results show 99% effective


One could make a case that any varroa control substance would do all of these things with the notable exception of protecting against pesticides. I am not sure I have ever heard any product make that claim unless, perhaps, you are selling screened entrances.


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## mdax

Scientists all over the world are researching how bees react to pesticides and how to save pollinators but your miracle product couldn't get financing to pay for tests?

I'd agree with others that your credentials, ingredients and test data are necessary before I'd even consider spraying my bees with your product.


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## WBVC

If a product is worth a grain of salt all ingredients should be listed and supportive peer reviewed research should be available.


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## Ian

jim lyon said:


> with the notable exception of protecting against pesticides.


bees free of mites and thus viral infections will probably withstand more pesticide exposure 

you see, we can argue anything and make the case, 
GOTTA HAVE SOME PROOF BEESHIELD


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## Roland

Show me the MSDS sheet.

Crazy Roland


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## Daniel Y

Oldtimer said:


> , if I invented a bee health product and put it on the market, it would be backed by solid scientific data showing that it works as claimed. If I couldn't do that, I wouldn't put it on the market.


That's nice, Except just as I suspected your product does not exist. It's so easy to do everything with nothing. just a dab of imagination and all is possible.


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## Haraga

Daniel Y, what would you do?


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## Daniel Y

My first line is bees that are not just in good health. but prime health. that goes further than anything else. I have always found is true no matter what animal it is I am caring for. I tend to take action not when colony is sick. but when it is no longer exceptional. I don't have diseases in my colonies. Twice I have had to deal with varroa in bees that came outside of my apiary. Both cases where treated with OA. The colony was then monitored closely to bring it up to full health. I have also once had tracheal mites in one of my colonies. again in the first bees I purchased. again I treated. Colonies that have declined I consider unacceptable but have never observed mites or any other disease. I would not be surprised to find out that varroa had gotten a foot hold in weakened hives. but restoring the hive to strong health I believe solves any temporary infestation.
I do not believe you need to treat or apply anything to bees that are strong and healthy. It is what I attribute the success of some treatment free beekeepers to. no need to treat healthy bees. Treatment free is more of a side result.


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## BernhardHeuvel

p-coumaric acid has been found to regulate the immune and detoxifying system of honeybees. *) Could be used in products like bee shield, to protect at least a bit against pesticides and/or diseases. Since you find this stuff in pollen and honey, you simply could feed honey and pollen that is not contaminated with pesticides.

(*) http://www.pnas.org/content/110/22/8842.abstract.html


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## Markt

Daniel Y said:


> My first line is bees that are not just in good health. but prime health. that goes further than anything else. I have always found is true no matter what animal it is I am caring for. I tend to take action not when colony is sick. but when it is no longer exceptional. I don't have diseases in my colonies. Twice I have had to deal with varroa in bees that came outside of my apiary. Both cases where treated with OA. The colony was then monitored closely to bring it up to full health. I have also once had tracheal mites in one of my colonies. again in the first bees I purchased. again I treated. Colonies that have declined I consider unacceptable but have never observed mites or any other disease. I would not be surprised to find out that varroa had gotten a foot hold in weakened hives. but restoring the hive to strong health I believe solves any temporary infestation.
> I do not believe you need to treat or apply anything to bees that are strong and healthy. It is what I attribute the success of some treatment free beekeepers to. no need to treat healthy bees. Treatment free is more of a side result.


How many hives do you do all that for?


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## Rader Sidetrack

_Daniel Y _overwintered 4 hives, and now has 17 hives, and apparently an _attitude_.


Daniel Y said:


> It is now 17 and climbing. And no I do not credit numbers as evidence. If in fact Mark has 125 times the colonies I do. and requires 180 times the time to tend to them. again I am the more effective beekeeper.


Note the Mark referred to above is Mark Berninghausen, _Sqkcrk_. From the same thread, another comment directed at Mark B:


Daniel Y said:


> Maybe you need to get better at your bee work. *I have no doubt my work is that much more effective.*


:lpf:



(click the blue arrow in the quote box to see the quote in context in the thread)


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## Haraga

"The colony was then monitored closely to bring it up to full health."

Daniel Y,
How does monitoring a hive closely bring it up to full health? Did you do anything else besides looking at them? In other words, how does the act of monitoring improve the health of a hive?


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## Daniel Y

It's not the monitoring that does anything. monitoring is one yard stick for everything else you do. Just as I don't think treatment free achieves anything. I don't think it is the lack of treating that causes the improvement. I do believe there is an improvement. I believe it is something more like better beekeeping that results in healthy bees that resist disease. Comments such as "There is more to it than just not treating" indicate such. If it takes more than just not treating. then just what is the not treating part accomplishing? I don't think not treating accomplishing anything. it is the result of many other things. It is evidence that those other things are effective. In the same way monitoring is not the fix. it is evidence that the fix is in fact being applied. and that fix is complicated. it is something more like bee a good keeper. It is being observant. noticing what works and what does not. developing and accuracy to your evaluations. and increasing your skill at management.

As for the quote above. that was in response to Mark claiming he worked more than 2880 hours in one day. and graham thinks that should be taken seriously. I am not kidding. He thinks mark is right. And he thinks I am a fool to say otherwise. All I can say is I am dying to see this clock Mark has.


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## Rader Sidetrack

Daniel Y said:


> As for the quote above that was in response to *Mark claiming he worked more than 2880 hours in one day.* and graham thinks that should be taken seriously. I am not kidding. He thinks mark is right. And he thinks I am a fool to say otherwise. All I can say is I am dying to see this clock Mark has.


Oh my ...... 

Here is what Mark _actually _said: :lpf:



sqkcrk said:


> By the way Y, I did more bee work yesterday than you did in the last 6 months and I still have time to take care of internet business. Just saying.


Its not clear whether DY's _clock _has stopped, or perhaps his _calculator _needs adjustment, or what exactly the problem is, but _something _seems amiss!

:ws:



Daniel Y said:


> And he thinks I am a fool to say otherwise.


:gh: :lpf:


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## Markt

Daniel Y said:


> It's not the monitoring that does anything. monitoring is one yard stick for everything else you do.


Time spent monitoring is time wasted. The trick is to know what your manipulations are going to do before you do them because you aren't going to have time to come back in two days and check. You can't be going back to hive 486 to see if moving frame 2 into the middle had the desired effect or not.


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## Oldtimer

beeshield said:


> As i stated in my original thread the studies are to be completed in a week or two


OK well that was more than 2 weeks ago so be interested to see the studies.


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## Yvesrow1

News Flash! BeeSheild cures Cancer & Aids too

Sketchy Website "http://1stlighttrading.com/index.php/"


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## Honey-4-All

Oldtimer said:


> OK well that was more than 2 weeks ago so be interested to see the studies.


If you look at my post #23 I think I now know why they have refused to answer my question as to any possible relationship with Sharmrock Apiaries. No response was posted as yet. A little more homework on my part based on clues provided in this thread shows a possible answer. 

look at the following links: 

http://1stlighttrading.com/index.php/queen-bees/

http://1stlighttrading.com/index.php/products-50/bee-shield.html


I posed my original question because we have had some pretty poor experiences ( being kind in my choice of words here) with the principals in the aforementioned company. It was such a bad experience ( loss of time, energy, equipment, poorly raised queen cells unavailable as promised...etc, dealings laced and filled un kept promises) that if I even suspected that there was any relationship between these two operations it would be my recommendation that all persons interested in dealing with these folks do so with much trepidation. When I saw the location red flags went up immediately in my mind. Its there reason I asked. 

If you do a whois search on the website owner you will notice that it comes up as being registered through a proxy. This is often done when people are looking to hide their relationship with a company or website. Another red flag in my book. Why in the world is someone with a product out of the Atwater area selling it out of a PO box in Vegas? Another red flag IMO.

I am not saying this product does not work...only warning others to tread cautiously when handing over their hard earned money anyone... especially.......... .

My past experience has been such that even if it the stuff actually lets the bees "walk on water" I couldn't stomach handing over another dime to the folks involved if there is even a possible tinge of relationships between these two outfits.


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## Daniel Y

Markt said:


> Time spent monitoring is time wasted. The trick is to know what your manipulations are going to do before you do them because you aren't going to have time to come back in two days and check. You can't be going back to hive 486 to see if moving frame 2 into the middle had the desired effect or not.


So how do you know what manipulations you need to make?


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## Markt

Daniel Y said:


> So how do you know what manipulations you need to make?


Experience


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## LSHonda310

this is on their website, does it make any sense to someone who understands the science?

"How does BEE SHIELD™ work?

The properties of BEE SHIELD™ prevent viruses from being able to enter the cellular structures of the bees by not allowing the viruses to attach to the cellular walls of the bee. It doesn’t allow pesticides to be able to enter into the bee’s cells due to its ability to bind to such reactive elements. BEE SHIELD™ works by preventing the protein capsule of a virus from being able to communicate with the glycoproteins or carbohydrate antenna of the cellular membrane of an organism. This prevents cellular uptake of the virus in the form of endocytosis, a process of which introduces the single-stranded DNA and double stranded RNA into the cellular mechanisms of the cell. This does not allow for viral take-over of the organelles in the cellular matrix, stopping viral reproduction"


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## Daniel Y

Here is what I understand from the above. Think of a virus as a piece of a jigsaw puzzle. and it can only attach to a cell if it fits exactly just like any other jigsaw puzzle piece. A virus must attach to a living cell in order to become "Alive" and multiply. Now this is where the puzzle piece analogy begins to be inadequate. But imagine a typical piece of a puzzle that has two coves and to tongues in order to fit the surrounding pieces of the puzzle. If I had a piece of the puzzle I never wanted to fit I could simply fill in one of those notches or coves. or even slightly change the shape of it and the intended piece of the puzzle will never make an exact fit. and an exact fit is the only thing that will do.

In this case the fit is a match of proteins. or maybe it is easier to think of it as a chemical match. What it sounds to me is that they think they have found a way to alter the chemical make up of the cells in a honey bee so that the chemical makeup of the viruses will no longer fit.

Another way to think of it is in comparison to sugar and water or oil and water. the molecules found in water and in sugar are such that they will connect to each other. but the molecules found in oil and water will not. They are trying to make the bees cells and the virus like water and oil.

How realistic that is I will not comment on.


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## MichaBees

It looks like Robert Russell has started a new business


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## kbfarms

That mechanism is the cure for the common cold, some forms of cancer if initiated by a virus (HPV and cervical cancer come immediately to mind) perhaps even HIV, in my poor uneducated opinion : )


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## Cub

rwurster said:


> Old Timer, the only person on BeeSource who's opinion matters to me, whether it be graftless queen rearing, beekeeping, or pointing out snake oil salesmen...
> Cheers mate


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## Jayoung21

MichaBees said:


> It looks like Robert Russell has started a new business


As i was reading this I was just waiting for a mention of that name...


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## justin

guess who is scheduled to speak at the montana beek association next month. send your list of questions you'd like me to ask. and i'll try to get a sample.


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## beeshield

Yes i know its been awhile since I have posted on here i apologize i have been extremely busy and havent had the time to respond and please provide Justin with questions that I will gladly answer and Dave Wick who has been running samples for me will also be there to eplain what the tests are showing, and I will provide names of who is using it and the results they are getting then your going to really freak out when I say I'm working on a natural foul brood treatment and that it works with flying colors, but hey its hard to have light penetrate a closed mind, but that hasn't stopped me yet so please hit me with the best of what you got and have it ready for the show cause i will be ready for it thank you for your inquires


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## jim lyon

beeshield said:


> then your going to really freak out when I say I'm working on a natural foul brood treatment and that it works with flying colors, but hey its hard to have light penetrate a closed mind


AFB or EFB?


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## julysun

" foul brood treatment and that it works with flying colors" beeshield

You navy guys will need to help us a bit, our bees are going to have flags. :w


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## Flyer Jim

julysun said:


> "
> 
> You navy guys will need to help us a bit, our bees are going to have flags. :w


Maybe the bravo flag.:lookout:


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## beeshield

We have only treated AFB so far, I am here in Montana at the moment heard of some new diseases for bees, (Great) found in the gut I will post more when I have more information on it


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## irwin harlton

http://www.apidologie.org/index.php...cess=doi&doi=10.1051/apido/2009065&Itemid=129

We evaluated the antagonistic effects of newly identified lactic acid bacteria (LAB) in the genera Lactobacillus and Bifidobacterium, originating from the honey stomach, on the honey bee pathogen, Paenibacillus larvae. We used inhibition assays on agar plates and honey bee larval bioassays to investigate the effects of honey bee LAB on P. larvae growth in vitro and on AFB infection in vivo. The individual LAB phylotypes showed different inhibition properties against P. larvae growth on agar plates, whereas a combination of all eleven LAB phylotypes resulted in a total inhibition (no visible growth) of P. larvae. Adding the LAB mixture to the larval food significantly reduced the number of AFB infected larvae in exposure bioassays. The results demonstrate that honey bee specific LAB possess beneficial properties for honey bee health. Possible benefits to honey bee health by enhancing growth of LAB or by applying LAB to honey bee colonies should be further investigated.


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## camero7

> Dave Wick who has been running samples for me will also be there to eplain what the tests are showing


Dave Wick is an expert on virus. I would like to know what he has to say. Why not post it here or have him post. He's a member.


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## max2

beeshield said:


> We have only treated AFB so far, I am here in Montana at the moment heard of some new diseases for bees, (Great) found in the gut I will post more when I have more information on it


Was the treatment successful?


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## beeshield

The treatment was very successful and we have two different beekeepers using this formula now and feedback from one has shown the same results, the other is just about a week and a half in trials from this date and is documenting results please email me [email protected]om and I would be glad to discuss with you the results and how and why the product works 

light can neither emanate nor penetrate a closed mind-George Sims


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## camero7

I'm still waiting for you to post Dave Wick's information.


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## Rader Sidetrack

> light can neither emanate nor penetrate a closed mind-George Sims

The comment above was in the body of a post, not the signature line. That made me wonder who _George Sims_ is. It appears he is one of those "_marketing motivator_" types. More info here:
http://georgesims.com/

If you want to add an automatic "signature" to your posts, that can be done in the "Settings" tab at the very top of each page.


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## loggermike

"The treatment was very successful "

Why am I not surprised..


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## Honey-4-All

loggermike said:


> "The treatment was very successful "
> 
> Why am I not surprised..



I'm still waiting for an answer as to if this product is related to anyone associated with the principals of Shamrock Apiaries in the Atwater area. Any answer beeshield?


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## Oldtimer

beeshield said:


> ..... please email me [email protected] and I would be glad to discuss with you the results and how and why the product works


Some reason why the results cannot be discussed on the forum?

And, why are there so many questions people have asked that you just don't answer?

What's to hide?


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## Honey-4-All

Oldtimer said:


> Some reason why the results cannot be discussed on the forum?
> 
> *And, why are there so many questions people have asked that you just don't answer?
> 
> What's to hide?*



Could it be two little things? A "history" as well as some other business practices that just don't add up. If these two are tied together as I have previously asked to no avail then one simple thing like selling "virgins" in February in central California which is about as unwise an investment as purchasing a car with no motor would be just one if many reasons IMO.

see: http://www.shamrocksbees.com/queen-cells.php

If anyone here can give me the name and number of anyone producing queens on a successful basis commercially in Central California in February I would sure appreciate the referral so I might chat with them.......... and test their sperm count.


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## JRG13

Doesn't this sound like Caspian solution a bit?


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## Honey-4-All

JRG13 said:


> Doesn't this sound like Caspian solution a bit?


Could be. Might even be the same thing? Re bottle, new label. 2 x the price and everyone is happy. So far I haven't seen the claim that even a new beek guy can go from 100 package to 1000 colonies in a single season as was previously touted with the infamous Canadian/Iranian miracle solution! If it was true the whole thing sounds better than the old days!! Bring it on. Might even drink some myself and join Ponce De Leon in his quest for the fountain of youth. Buzz. Buzz


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## Oldtimer

Since the initial suspicions at the beginning of this thread, even more reasons for doubt are becoming apparent. For one, the time line is wrong. For Beesheild, the product is first put on the market and sold as a cure all for AFB and pesticide (99%). AFTER the product is being sold on this basis, a trial is done to see if it works. Trial should have been done FIRST. The once available ingredient list showed nothing that would cure AFB or poison.

Another thing that has SCAM written all over it is the behaviour of the promoter/s. They use similar techniques on the forum to certain types of trolls, ie, not answering awkward questions just ignore them & hope they will go away. Just show up occasionally and make a comment to keep things going. The reason for avoiding proper debate in this way is because with a large readership like Beesource, there will always be that gullible few who will buy the product, those are the ones a thread like this is designed to reach, even despite the obvious flaws.

SECRECY. The "trial", which naturally was a success (we are told) will not be discussed publicly on the forum where it would be subject to scrutiny. That would be too damaging if the trial was not a useful trial, or didn't even take place. Rather, offer to enter into private email discussions with people it is hoped might privately be duped into buying it. The hope is that some people will buy it, and for some of them just by statistical chances their bees will do well, and then glowing reviews can be published.

Quotes from a MARKETING GURU. A marketing guru is often quoted like a mantra. The formula is invent some product - anything. If it has enough buzzwords it will sell if promoted enough. Buzzwords like organic, our common interest, the livelihood of bees, our food supply, etc. Then MARKET it. Even if 1% of the population are duped there is money to be made.

If solid data showing the product claims are true existed, it would surely have been presented by now. The lack of any proper information would make me avoid this product like the plague, it's a scam. A great shame it is even legal.


----------



## max2

Well spoken, oldtimer!


----------



## Honey-4-All

Does this need a bump or do the people at Shame-rock need one. Not seeing much info on the miraculous tests results posted here. Looks like the marketing came first and the product development is still in process. Little bass ackwards unless the stuff never did work as they have "hinted." As the drunk guy in the old beer jingle used to say "What's up?"


----------



## Oldtimer

Their web site is up, running, looks good and no doubt selling product to the gullible and uneducated, and bringing in the $$'s for them.

Why would they mess all that up by talking here, where the product might be held up to normal standards of disclosure and sensible scrutiny. 

They have lied here, saying "tests" are about to be done / published / whatever, but they never are. Any money they take is by deception, and is theft. They should really be prosecuted, punished, and shut down.

BTW I don't think it is Caspian solution, because that was not organic. BeeSheild is just a mishmash of organic herbs and spices or whatever, that may or may not be helpful to the bees, but will definitely not protect from disease and pesticide (99%). The 99%, is a nice out by the way, if they ever do have a customer complain. "Oh, your bees must be the 1%".


----------



## mdax

Someone at beeSheild either has a marketing degree or is just excellent at product marketing activities. 
They have someone on forums spreading the word and a write up in this months Bee Culture Page 15. The mag printed their claims as facts which is sure to drive in sales.

I'd give their product rollout at least a 8 out of 10. 
The video on their main page is great, rock music, sky high claims, no quoted studies or research...but dang the music is catchy and it makes you want the product. 

Whether the product works or not is a completely different story. I'd love to hear what legit bee scientists have to say. 
There are great lessons to be learned on rolling a product out here, especially for folks with solid endeavors who aren't good at marketing.


----------



## Oldtimer

Which of course is another red flag. Lot's of powerful marketing, no research or anything of substance.


----------



## Daniel Y

I think you have made your point Oldtimer. you think it is snake oil. odds are you are correct. But they way you are like a dog on a bone makes me wonder what you are not saying. what interest do you have in this product? I don't buy the idea that you are just trying to warn people of a scam. you went far beyond that long ago. It now seems to me you have some sort of vendetta or personal bone to pick. I don't think we are getting the full story. and the lies and deception are not just on the part of Bee Shield.

Since when is it some sign of wrong doing to advertise and do it well? You have a point but you are scraping for scraps to make it. that concerns me. Why would you need to take advantage of every tiny contrived or blown out of proportion opportunity to bad mouth this product? And that you have so much good will toward your fellow man I do not buy. This is more of a hatred and that is nto consistent with good will for anyone.


----------



## Roland

Y- Maybe Oldtimer is just an old Boy Scout, trying to keep every one honest. Some people just have difficulties dealing with suspicious behavior, my self included.

Crazy Roland, Eagle Scout


----------



## Ian

After reading through this thread, hive me a hit of that snake oil!...


----------



## Oldtimer

Simple Daniel.

I considered telling you I work for the iluminati and we are secretly developing an alternative product, just to humor you conspiracy theory. 

But - no, it's really more something like Roland said that's all. 

And, that I have asked a number of questions, plain, straight forward type questions you could normally ask of any product vendor, mainly simply that he will show the research that he said he was going to show. But he stubbornly refuses to answer, pretty obvious why. Heck who would, if they were telling a pack of lies.

Something that really annoys me is when people lie to defraud money from the innocent, then trying to cover their deception by hinting that there are some studies, or whatever, that they will release later. But, they never do cos it doesn't exist, or, if it does, it does not back their claims. But they try to continue the deception anyway and milk that money cow. I cannot do anything about their web site. But I can draw attention to this scam, on Beesource.

My motives are that simple. 

Also, Beesheild could shoot me down in flames any time they like, simply by supplying the study data that they say they have. If it's all true I would have to eat some serious crow and I'm sure they would love that.

But do I think there is much risk of that? No. The crow is quite safe. For this product, I have chosen to be a scambuster, along with some others who are annoyed by this fraud. Don't really know why, just caught my interest, and I don't like scams.

There it is Daniel.


----------



## RudyT

Without this kind of forum, it is very easy for eager (maybe especially new) beekeepers to make serious mistakes. So I encourage the repeated asking of the right questions.


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## Rader Sidetrack

They seem to have been working hard on the BeeShield website, even if they haven't posted those alleged test results. See this page for customer testimonials, including this one:



> *Roger Hamilton - Hamilton Bee Farms, South Dakota*
> "This past year the bee's guts were empty and no honey was produced which blew out any theories we had as to why they were infected. In four bee yards, I treated 32 hives with 4 treatments of BEE SHIELD. The bees appear to have more fecal matter by far than the 32 untreated hives and are starting to increase in bee population. I'm now feeding BEE SHIELD II and boxes are ready to go south for wintering. I plan on being a distributor come spring after all my field tests are complete. "
> 
> http://www.bee-shield.com/


Anyone, perhaps from South Dakota, actually know Roger?


----------



## Oldtimer

Thank you Rudy. If I can save someone like yourself from spending your bee money on a scam, and know instead you can buy something useful for your bees, like some more boxes, or a honey extractor, I'm happy.


----------



## Daniel Y

Roland said:


> Y- Maybe Oldtimer is just an old Boy Scout, trying to keep every one honest. Some people just have difficulties dealing with suspicious behavior, my self included.
> 
> Crazy Roland, Eagle Scout


I also have difficulties with suspicious behavior and find Oldtimers behavior suspicious. I do not buy it is just attempting to warn others. that was done adequately long ago. Not only that but such an off the wall claim does not require such attempts to dispute in the first place. If there are those that could be taken in with such and attempt to deceive. sorry but I don't think you have the ability to save them.

So which is the real deception? Beesheilds presentation of their product, or your attempts to insult and antagonize them into not posting anything. Now the very people you claim to be protecting are going out of there way to remain informed about this product. and then dragging that information back here to post links to it. A little like telling folks to stay out of the dark alley so they go down the alley to see what it is to be afraid of. Not exactly working there champ. I don't think that is what you intended and so that is not what happened. In actuality this thread woudl most likely have died off long ago. but now has become a better promotion tool than it woudl have been.

I think you went from asking questions to insulting. and when you did you generated interest in this thread and curiosity on the part of many. You may well have created sympathy for beeshield in the process.

You did get one thing right though. and that is you where trying. you where trying enough to get on my nerves with it. I still think there is more to this than is being seen. I see the evidence I just don't see the full picture. People do things for a reason. and when they start doing things that do not make since. there are reasons we do not know about. And you have been full of not nonsensical behavior. Seems to me there is a lot we do not know. This your brother in law or something? Do you think you have some corner on the treatment market or something. you have some interest in treatments not being found and promoted? 

Again where is this reliable evaluation that you offered? Making claims based upon you assumptions? is that what you consider fair impartial and qualified evaluation? Doing just what you offered may require you buy some of this stuff use it and then report on the rustles. nobody says he has to accommodate your offer to evaluate the product. that was your idea. so you carry it out. Nobody asked you to mention a fair evaluation of it. you chose to make that claim all on your own. so deliver it. words are cheap. Can your feet walk the same path you mouth describes? So just who is the shyster full of hot air in this conversation? Just rambling on with empty words and claims? I thought you had a problem with that sort of behavior. Or is that just when you choose to see it in others?

So I will hold you to the exact same thing you get so irritated with Beesheild over. lets so your evaluation of this product. you are the one that said you wanted it or that it is needed. so lets see if it is important enough for you to provide. You are the one that claims it can be provided here. so lets see it. I have yet to see anything yet that resembles it.


----------



## Oldtimer

Daniel Y said:


> I also have difficulties with suspicious behavior and find Oldtimers behavior suspicious.


Yup you got me, looks like I'll have to fess up. I'm a Bayer spy. 

Seriously though Daniel, Beesheild and I do have one thing in common, we both sell a product. They sell a chemical, and what I sell is bees. The difference, is that anyone can ask me anything they like about my product, and I will answer to the best of my ability. That is how an honest business is run.


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## Rader Sidetrack

opcorn: :lpf: :s :no: :applause: :scratch:

.... after DY's _astute _analysis of Oldtimer's rousing _endorsement _of Beeshield, I am ready to place my order today ...

:gh:

... next up - storm analysis ...


----------



## Honey-4-All

Daniel. If you read a little farther back you will notice one of the reasons I am suspicious of this product. Even prior to their web roll out I detected a connection between their "location" and an outfit that I had dealt with previously. The results were poor at best and they have made no attempt to return or replace the equipment I loaned them to get them out of a jam they had gotten themselves in. Because of that and some of their currently advertised practices I had substantial reservations about associating with them ever again. Turned out with the connection being there as I had guessed. They may be on to something which they are welcome to prove. Is it a crime to warn people about something with what I would regard as snake oil history? If not then sit down and wait to see what comes of their tests?????


----------



## jim lyon

I understand Phil....really I do.  Let's take this beyond the personal though. The web site claims virus resistance by: 
"not allowing the protein Capsule of a virus To be able to communicate with the Glycoproteins or carbohydrate antenna of the cellular membrane of an organism. This prevents cellular uptake of the virus In the form of endocyctosis a process which introduces single strand DNA and double stranded RNA into the cellular mechanism of the Cell. This does not allow for viral takeover of the organelles, in the cellular matrix, stopping viral reproduction"

Or this description of how pesticides are disarmed.

By....Electron Resonance Response. This is BEE SHIELDS ability to recognize when there is a highly reactive element that would be detrimental to the living organism. It will bind with it and make it non reactive and no longer harmful to what was introduced to it." 

Does this make any sense or sound plausible to any of the more scholarly folks on here?


----------



## rweaver7777

As for "Electron Resonance Response", the most knowledgable guy around (Google) doesn't know about it. What is being described is the action of anti-oxidants.

For endocytosis to work in the way described, the chemical must either BE the protein the host cell needs, eliminating that receptor from being able to be used by the virus, or else mutate the host cell or the viral cell so that the protein receptor on the host cell no longer matches the virus. We call mutated host cells "cancer" usually. And mutating the host cell means that it would no longer pick up the proteins that it needs for survival, so the most benign result would be cell death.

If the chemical mutates the virus, by all means alert scientists worldwide so they can become informed of how this works. I'm sure they'd love to mutate HIV or a whole host of other viruses out of existence.


----------



## Oldtimer

Yes, my confident claim that the product is a fraud and the vendor a liar, is based (among other things), on this pseudo scientific speak, that is not the reality. It is nothing more than an attempt to bamboozle, and to fool the gullible. 

If it was true, (which it isn't), the company would be bought for not millions, but billions of dollars by Bayer or some other large player, and we could then all forget ever having to worry about our bees being poisoned or getting a disease again, cos Beesheild would do it's magic and bees would be living in a safe, perfect world.


----------



## Michael Bush

>By....Electron Resonance Response. This is BEE SHIELDS ability to recognize when there is a highly reactive element that would be detrimental to the living organism. It will bind with it and make it non reactive and no longer harmful to what was introduced to it." 

"Electron Resonance Response" is not the normal terminology to describe how molecules bond to other molecules but it's not too far from describing it. The problem with the description is "BEE SHIELDS ability to recognize". When you have a "highly reactive element" I assume they mean it's "looking" for something that will fill its outer orbit of electrons. The substance or substances that will fill that depends on how many electrons it's short and the substance that will bond with it can't "recognize" anything, but it will be attracted to the appropriate electron gap and will bond with that. That is assuming we are talking about the pesticide as a chemical that is going to bond on a molecular level with whatever is in "BEE SHIELDS". But many different pesticides work by many different methods. Usually they interfere with some biological system in the insect such as the nervous system. In this case they are often not reacting on some molecular level, but rather reacting to chemical receptors such as the acetylcholine receptors in the nervous system (the method by which neonicotinoids works). Is it possible to make something that would bind with the neonicotinoids to keep them from binding with the acetylcholine receptors? Probably, but the neonicotinoids are simulating acetylcholine in this regard. In the case of acetylcholine, it is only loosely attracted to the receptor which is why the nerve eventually resets when the acetylcholine lets go and is eventually removed by acetylcholinesterase. Now would acetylcholinesterase work to block neonicotinoids? I think it would, but it would also interfere with the normal function of the acetylcholine by breaking it down as well at a rate higher than the organism requires. Other insecticides which are systemic in different ways, of course, would require entirely different chemicals to “neutralize” them, if it is even possible to neutralize them. How many different chemicals would it take to neutralize all the current pesticides? Quite a few. And how much would those chemicals interfere with the normal functioning of the insect? I don’t believe it’s possible to counter them without creating different problems. Trying to interfere (e.g. BEE SHIELDS) with a chemical (the pesticide) that is trying to interfere with a biological process (e.g. acetylcholine receptors) almost always imitates a natural “checks and balances” system (e.g. acetylcholinesterase ) in the biological process (e.g. the nervous system) which simply unbalances it in the opposite direction (e.g. destroys the acetylcholine that the insect needs to have a normal functioning nervous system).

And of course, one substance cannot be “smart” and adjust itself to all of the possible pesticides and chemicals.


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## Tohya

Maybe it contains nano sized activated carbon. :banana:


----------



## Daniel Y

Set and wait, For what? The imagined conclusions of the massively clueless but otherwise highly qualified masses here. the very same people that are now saying they do not even understand it. do you really think this is the group of peers that will be offered the opportunity to evaluate this product? I think you have now created an atmosphere that guarantees it will not be. What makes you think that they or anyone else would return to mention anything about it after your warm reception? Brow beat someone and then set your expectations on them returning as some sign of success or failure. Is that how you do it?

As far as I can tell they are attempting to disable viruses the very same way it is done naturally by the immune system. only they are attempting to manufacture a synthetic antibody.

Is the technology real? Yes it actually is. I know of at least one medical research center that specializes in Molecular Medicine. One of it's most active as well as promising research programs is the development of an antibody for brain tumors. The general idea is that they take a portion of the brain tumor and from that they can manufacture a serum that can be administered intravenously. This serum is then capable of targeting just the cells of the brain tumor and harm no healthy cells around it. it woudl amount to tumor removal with molecular precision. Now you can decide that research findings over the next week or two are definitive as to this researches success or the potential success of the method. I choose to think that you grandchildrens grandchildren may benefit from it. So you may want to start by getting some sort of clue as to what research takes and when you can expect results. I suspect Beesheild is attempting to drum up support for further research.

So is it potentially real? Very much so. Can it be applied to the Varros mite? possibly. will it work? Past experience has clearly shown that such developments are very slow and filled with pit falls along the way. Research more often than not creates more questions than answers. and as those endless questions get solved. somewhere in the background applicable products get produced. I know of one research project that has been in progress for nearly 20 years that was intended and in fact had a direct goal as to the development of a specific product. and it was successful in doing so. 

I understand you have a problem with how you where treated. I have a problem with how you treated Beesheild. and you did it on nothing but a suspicion of who they are. Sounds like your trying to justify yourself to me.


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## Rader Sidetrack

Daniel Y said:


> One of it's most active as well as promising research programs is the development of an antibody for brain tumors. The general idea is that they take a portion of the brain tumor and from that they can manufacture a serum that can be administered intravenously.


Brain tumors?? Administer a serum intravenously?? :scratch: :s  Are you really talking about bees? In the words of a _prominent _forum member:



Daniel Y said:


> The best trolls have gotten good at maintaining a smattering of relevant and seemingly helpful posts. but if you really look they have little content or only reveal a shallow depth of involvement at best.


:gh:




Daniel Y said:


> I suspect Beesheild is attempting to drum up support for further research.


I suspect _everyone _would like to have a little *green "*reseach" flow into their pockets. :lpf::lookout::lpf:



:ws:


----------



## Daniel Y

No Graham, I am talking about the technology of being able to produce a synthetic antibody. So if you can manufacture something that will attack some specific part of a human. Could you manufacture something that will attack some part of a Varroa mite?

I know for a fact they are developing the former.


----------



## Rader Sidetrack

Daniel Y said:


> I am talking about the technology of being able to produce a _*synthetic *_antibody.


Somebody may indeed be working on that. Quite likely even! :thumbsup:

However, this is what Bee-Shield says about _their _product:


> What is in your product?BEE SHIELD’s formula is a proprietary [HIGHLIGHT]formula of natural organic ingredients. [/HIGHLIGHT] This formulation of ingredients is a scientifically proven a-mixture process that is ours exclusively. We are sure you can appreciate that we need to protect our unique formula as we would not want our product to be compromised. Bees need to be more sustainable and with BEE SHIELD™ we offer the ability to accomplish that task.
> 
> http://1stlighttrading.com/index.php/bee-shield-faqs


Somehow "_natural organic ingredients_" seems at odds with manufacturing the "_synthetic antibody_" that DY describes! I'm probably just a little slow though ...

:gh:


----------



## Daniel Y

calling them Synthetic was my choice. There is nothing artificially about them. It is actually more of a manipulation and possible and interference and alteration of natural processes. so the entire thing could accurately be described as natural and pure etc.


----------



## Daniel Y

try this.
http://www.nature.com/nchembio/journal/v2/n12/full/nchembio843.html


----------



## Rader Sidetrack

So, DY, have you sent _your _money to Bee-Shield for some of this "natural and pure" product yet?


----------



## SS1

Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

I think thats my fav sig.


Lot of pleasant people in here... It's why I dont show up here very often.. Good resource for reading, just dont post anything.


----------



## Honey-4-All

mlk;olpoui


SS1 said:


> Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.


I think I'll take my stand at the bee bar and have another one. Give me a double shot of Bee Shield this time please. 

Anyone else remember when the nicotine based stuff was the new miracle cure and it wouldn't even work at 10 recommended dose? 

Call me a sceptic if you'd like. Seen this routine way to many times on my trips around sun. Don't always believe the label on the bottle.

Seems to me if the stuff was so great they would be handing out free samples to some of those drug addicted beeks. If it works as touted the word would get around faster than ........... 

I'm all in for the new and improved.....just trying to stay away from being black, blue and well used.


----------



## Oldtimer

I think the vendor of Beesheild, (whoever he actually is), will be having a good chuckle reading this & seeing people attempt to explain his explanation how beesheild works. IE, actually bestow some seriousness to it.

His explanation is gobbledegook. As a wiser head pointed out, many pesticides work in many different ways. The explanation given cannot possibly be a catch all for every pesticide, not to mention just happens to work on every virus, and hey, just for good measure, AFB bacteria as well. 

His explanation has served it's purpose though, it is just scientific sounding enough, yet vague and confusing enough, to have people actually try to make sense of it. A waste of time in my opinion.

The public endorsements on the web site, to me, all look like they were written by the same person. They are also vague gobbledegook. This, for example:-

Roger Hamilton - Hamilton Bee Farms, South Dakota
"This past year the bee's guts were empty and no honey was produced which blew out any theories we had as to why they were infected. In four bee yards, I treated 32 hives with 4 treatments of BEE SHIELD. The bees appear to have more fecal matter by far than the 32 untreated hives and are starting to increase in bee population. I'm now feeding BEE SHIELD II and boxes are ready to go south for wintering. I plan on being a distributor come spring after all my field tests are complete." 

From it, "This past year the bee's guts were empty and no honey was produced which blew out any theories we had as to why they were infected" ?
So, just exactly what is that supposed to mean? In fact, it means nothing. It is confusing enough that a small % of people will think it sounds scientific, so will buy the product.

As the old saying goes, a new sucker is born every minute. Unfortunately, that is the market this web site is targeting.

Here's a rule for life, and avoiding scams. If buying something on the net, check who it is that you are dealing with. Many honest companies market on the net. If their physical address is there and you know who they are, they can be contacted on the phone, and verify where their premises are and could actually go there, it's likely above board. If the web site is totally anonymous, ie, you are dealing with nothing more than a page on your computer screen and (maybe) a phone number, be on guard, don't give them your money.


----------



## Oldtimer

Well, just had another look at their web site, and see they have now backed away from their original claim that Beeshield prevents AFB. So, 10 points to them for honesty.

Having said that, I think this thread could have been a factor. They realised it will be very obvious to beekeepers with AFB who try Beeshield to cure AFB, that it doesn't work, and this would be easily documented and exposed on threads such as this, so their hand has been forced.

Hence the value of an open forum like Beesource.

Viruses, and poisonings, well that's a lot harder for the average beekeeper to say with certainty whether something worked or not, so they are leaving that claim in place. (For now). They say tests are "ongoing", and hint at tests, but still stubbornly refuse to release any test results whatsoever.

Translation - there are no tests.

And this from their site "We have been compared to other products and we are found to be superior by beekeepers that have used other products in the past and are now using BEE SHIELD™. We have some of the most prominent beekeepers in this country, and possibly the world, using our product. They are reporting that our product stands a foot above the rest and that nothing compares to our product on the market".

Surely they joke. 

Who compared them and how were these comparisons done?
What other products have they been compared to and found to be superior?
Who are these most prominent beekeepers in the country and possibly the world, who are using the product?
In what way is the product a foot above the rest and nothing compares?


----------



## Daniel Y

Rader Sidetrack said:


> So, DY, have you sent _your _money to Bee-Shield for some of this "natural and pure" product yet?


Nope, not going to. I'm not the one that worried about snake oil. Like I said I don't disagree that the whole thing is most likely bogus. I simply see the reaction to it as way overboard and wondering why. no question it is over the tip. the only question I still have is the why. I'll probably never know. Oh well. I have a new arrangement of Silent Night to work on. I am doing a duet next week for cancer victims. A guitar and harmonica.


----------



## jim lyon

jim lyon said:


> The web site claims virus resistance by:
> "not allowing the protein Capsule of a virus To be able to communicate with the Glycoproteins or carbohydrate antenna of the cellular membrane of an organism. This prevents cellular uptake of the virus In the form of endocyctosis a process which introduces single strand DNA and double stranded RNA into the cellular mechanism of the Cell. This does not allow for viral takeover of the organelles, in the cellular matrix, stopping viral reproduction"
> 
> Or this description of how pesticides are disarmed.
> 
> By....Electron Resonance Response. This is BEE SHIELDS ability to recognize when there is a highly reactive element that would be detrimental to the living organism. It will bind with it and make it non reactive and no longer harmful to what was introduced to it."
> 
> Does this make any sense or sound plausible to any of the more scholarly folks on here?



Is it fair to note at this point that after posing this question to the forum two days ago that no one with any expertise in this type of science has stepped forward to say these claims sound plausible. We did, though, get a fairly learned response from Michael Bush that seemed to cast a lot of doubt. Anyone else? Where is Mr.Chestnut when we need him?


----------



## TWall

jim lyon said:


> Is it fair to note at this point that after posing this question to the forum two days ago that no one with any expertise in this type of science has stepped forward to say these claims sound plausible. We did, though, get a fairly learned response from Michael Bush that seemed to cast a lot of doubt. Anyone else? Where is Mr.Chestnut when we need him?


Jim,

Virology is beyond my area of expertise. As someone, maybe Michael Bush, mentioned it looks like a bunch of scientific jargon that upon closer inspection doesn't make sense. For example, there is mention of single strand DNA and double strand RNA. While that could be an honest typo I doubt it. DNA is double-stranded and RNA is a single stranded molecule.

While the claims being made are things that might be possible they don't seem to plausible. If this were true I would think people would be singing from the roof tops about it.

Tom


----------



## Daniel Y

OR the above example of confusion could simply be a layman attempting to really information from professionals. and did nothing more than get what is double and what is single confused. that is really not much of an error. To accomplish something does not mean you personally have to do it. You can actually only be the person directing those with the skills to get it done.


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## Rader Sidetrack

And then there is the _alternative _point of view ....


Daniel Y said:


> Like I said I don't disagree that [HIGHLIGHT] the whole thing is most likely bogus.[/HIGHLIGHT]



:gh:


----------



## jim lyon

I simply copied verbatim what the "professionals" are claiming in their web site and asked for those with scientific expertise to comment about the plausibility of the claims. I would suggest those not accepting my quote would be better served going to the website to read it for themselves.


----------



## wildbranch2007

they had this discussion on bee-l back in July and this is part of one the better posts.

http://community.lsoft.com/scripts/...1=BEE-L&9=A&J=on&d=No+Match;Match;Matches&z=4

"It doesn't allow pesticides to be able to enter into the bee's cells due to
its ability to bind to such reactive elements."

[Speaking generally, a pesticide is broken down by a Cytochrome P450
reaction into a metabolite which is then conjugated by one of a variety of
different transferase processes, so it is not at all clear what is meant by
the claim above. It sounds like the most dangerous compound to every exist,
as if it were to actually "bind to such reactive elements", it would seem to
also have to bind to food elements like sugars, and thus prevent them from
being digested.]

"Most syrups are made from high fructose corn syrup and contain trace
elements of neonicotinoids, mostly imidcloprid, and this may be one of the
reasons behind CCD (colony collapse disorder)."

[Really? I thought that repeated testing did NOT detect pesticides in HFCS.
Mercury was found, but the HFCS refiners stopped using the non-food-grade
acid that contained the mercury right quick when the news got out.]

"BEE SHIELD(tm) helps prevent the absorption of this material into the bee's
system as well as helps transport the nutrients into their system. So not
only does it protect but it aids in nutritional uptake."

Wow, so it blocks one way viruses invade cells, prevents absorption of the
undetectable pesticides, and helps transport nutrients? I should take this
stuff rather than all the vitamins my wife gives me!


----------



## adamf

Hi there folks!


Here's what a wise old chestnut once told me:

"*A fool and his money are soon parted.*"





Adam Finkelstein
www.vpqueenbees.com


----------



## jim lyon

....or Dr. Bromenshenk's simple opinion on Bee Shield in the Bee-l link? "if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is".


----------



## Daniel Y

I say there are those that think they can and those that think they can't. And they are both right.


----------



## Oldtimer

beeshield said:


> We have only treated AFB so far, I am here in Montana at the moment heard of some new diseases for bees, (Great) found in the gut I will post more when I have more information on it


Been waiting with bated breath....


----------



## Markt

Daniel Y said:


> I say there are those that think they can and those that think they can't. And they are both right.


If you really believe that this is a legitimate product would you perhaps be interested in an exciting opportunity to purchase some ocean front property in Arizona? Have they checked if it cures cancer too yet? I feel like it should...


----------



## Rusty Hills Farm

And now I just read about it on the ABJ website. This so saddens me on so many levels.

:kn:

Rusty


----------



## Honey-4-All

Rusty Hills Farm said:


> And now I just read about it on the ABJ website. This so saddens me on so many levels.
> 
> :kn:
> 
> Rusty



Queens at 15 and cells at 3 are also a red flag. Yesterday at the queen breeders meeting two of largest queen producers in the US were sitting side by side right behind me on the end cap of the tables and I happened to catch a few comments and shakes of the head as they stopped to look at those ads in the new ABJ. 

At those prices someone is taking it in the shorts. Somewhere. Employees, suppliers, or maybe even the producers. 

Time will tell.........


----------



## Riskybizz

I'm sure that Mr. Bee Shield is hoping that someone is going to hijack his thread real quick.


----------



## JWChesnut

1st Light Trading, LLC is registered in Nevada. Two Principals are cited in the registration papers: Marylou Kenworthy and James L. Johnson. These two also have registered "Thought Matters, LLC" which is a self-improvement-hynosis seminar. This appears to be related to Marylou Kenworthy's main gig -- she is a hynotherapist that worked recently in addiction recovery in Malibu. The Thought Matters LLC uses a private residence on Via Marbella, Thousand Oaks Ca for a legal address. The home currently is an active listing at $1.1 million.

Linked In lists Marylou Kenworthy as managing partner of 1st Light Trading (with a Newberry Park, Ca address).
Marcella Blake is the PR webmaster per Linked In (and signs the blog posts). Marcella signed the trademark application for the Bee Shield and the Citrus Shield products.
Justin Jay Brown of Atwater is the salesman or principle of the Bee Shield product. His facebook cites has photos which he commented -- "Dude, I invented the bee protection"

Brent Harding of Ukiah is cited on Linked-In as the "doer" for 1st Light. Harding appears to be a bit of a hard luck case (petty thefts), and his most recent FB cover shot (2013) is a teak plantation (presumably out of the country) where he comments he is growing them "I am sir, I finally found something constructive to do who would have thought."

Shamrock promotes Bee Shield on its cover page. It is run by Shad Sullivan. Google captures Shad Sullivan as a board member of EQCO2 (stock symbol CLNO). CLNO is a penny stock (present price 0.0015) that ran to 0.25 this summer before a bitter feud errupted between Billy Branwell and a pay-for-performance penny stock promoter -- Crown Equity for control.

All of this is flat out curious -- Malibu hypnotherapist running addiction therapy, hard-luck Mendo Rasta, sketchy Penny Stock Promoter out of Tahoe, and a miracle bee cure. Until the plot line can be explained, assume this is just a B-grade movie -- mixing Bees and Breaking Bad. Cultural Collapse and Colony Collapse ---high concept Hollywood.

The other products that First Light sells is Humic and Fulvic Acid and a storage container called CVault. Humic/Fulvic acid is alkali processed peat or coal. It is a cult nutrient for hydroponic (marijuana) growing. The CVault is explicitly sold for "curing" smoking herbs-- using a moisture extracting salt pad. James (Jim) Johnson is listed on Organic Products listings in California for the Humic Acid product. I think it may be a reasonable guess that the Bee Shield is a repurposed Humic Acid solution of some type. 
Wiki entry on Humic -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humic_acid

The key phrase "Electron Resonance Response" occurs in two and only two places on the web, both in a blog promoting use of Humic Acid. 
I consider this gobbledegook but the paragraph reads : "Humic acid is a powerful detoxifying (chelating) agent. A chelator is a molecule that binds toxins including heavy metals and removes them from the body via the elimination system. It also has a remarkable ability to neutralize toxins. No matter what compound it encounters in the body, it is capable of shifting, absorbing and then exiting it from the body through the normal excretion pathways. It does this though what we call Electron Resonance ResponseTM (ERR). ERR is the adaptogenic ability to donor or accept electrons as dictated by the resonance of the electron spin of the toxin to optimally shift and chelate the harmful substances from the body. Cite: http://humicnews.com/staying-healthy-in-a-toxic-world/


----------



## Oldtimer

Why am I not surprised.

Thanks for the research JWC, and the better than eloquent run down on the business.


----------



## Honey-4-All

One heck of a smoking expose' I must admit. If I had the knowledge and fortitude to dig all that up I would be impressed with myself. Great-great job. You my sir win the first annual S. D.( named after my most honorable father in law) award for diligence in attempting to maintain integrity through full and complete disclosure of pertinent facts in a subject of interest to the US Beekeeping industry. 

If you are so inclined I beg you to take the time to discover and divulge exactly who paid for that full page ad in the ABJ promoting both beeshield and Shamrock's bees. Knowing whose funds paid for it would be very useful in a determining an associated stink I smell but have not yet divulged in this "bee shield ""game."

Thanks........


----------



## Barry

This is CR, not general forum discussion.


----------



## beeshield

Wow I must say that you gentlemen have been very busy on trying to discover how so many different people from so many different back rounds happened to get together to try and solve a crisis that effects everyone on the planet, In response to many numerous inquires about are affiliation with Shamrock "S" Pollination, when we first started trials with said company they were not and I repeat were not a part of 1st light treading LLC, our parent company saw an opportunity to help the bee keeping community and took it, allowing for what some people claim "as the best queens on the market" to be continually produced, if you want direct people who use such queens send me an email to my account [email protected], I will not post peoples private information on here, but I know of many people who stand behind those queens.

Now in regards to the comments on pesticides, yes pesticides do have many different modes of action, but as being a formula that is an electron donor as well as acceptor it has the ability to bind to many different types of elements, and cause different type of bonds to such elements such as ionic, covalent, hydrogen bonding, and Van deer walls interactions. Yes we are still trying to get more studies done, but people that do such studies are busy themselves and getting these funds together for such a project is no easy task, we have gotten inquires from people that we have been introduced to that are helping us with these tasks, but convincing some on here of our efforts to improve the health of the bee will be nothing short of miraculous, but it will no stop us on our goal to do so.

In regards to the AFB, we have never stated that our product doesn't treat AFB, the BEESHIELD FOULBROOD does and will eliminate AFB from your hives as it contains the proper cultures of bacterium such as betaproteobacterim, and specific bascillus strains that actively combat the AFB. SO I am unaware of where you are getting such information as surely anybody within the company would tell you that we do have a product for such disease, is it the original product, No, but it is continuing advancement of a wonderful treatment as the basis of the formula is still the original BEESHIELD formula.

This is for the gentleman that thought that all DNA and RNA come just single stranded in RNA and double stranded in DNA 
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15010213
http://www.biology-online.org/dictionary/SsDNA_virus

this link generates some studies on dsRNA and ssDNA in the form of viruses please if you would try and state something check your own facts before posting them, we at 1st light trading check ours and do our best to present to you the most current knowledge that such respective fields have to offer.

Again about some of the people that have given testimonials have you tried typing in their names and finding out who they are? You would see that some of these people are presidents of clubs or on important Boards in the Bee community, that don't just easily say yes throw my name out there and see if that helps you, these are people that have seen results and are willing to talk to other Beekeepers such as yourself on what they have seen, even willing to take phone calls on such matters, but by reading the postings I can see few if any have. 

We are in process of providing you answers without breaking our companies policies of divulging company secrets, to say its been awhile since I have posted on here isn't a lie, We have been busy with getting scientific studies set up for the coming season and working with new relationships in the community, showing that we are a real company, you want to come see the ranch you can come see it, you want to see our Bee fields we will show you, want to visit our warehouse you can call the manager and make an appointment. We are not some shady Ponzi scheme trying to take advantage of a market, we are a company offering solutions to a problem,
to ensure that no stone has been left un-turned, that every possible support chain utilized we do come from a broad category of people with the same ideal to help.

Again I offer you free communication with me my email is [email protected] if you want I will provide my phone number through it so you can communicate to me directly and see that what we offer isn't pseudo science its science most haven't learned about and we are hear to change that, just like when Pythagoras said the world was round nobody believed him, but he wasn't wrong and we will continue to prove that our product does what we say it does without hesitation.

And on a side note to the gentleman that said that you should be drinking this product as well, you are so very right you should


----------



## Honey-4-All

As asked in my above post :Who paid for that full page ad in the ABJ ???? No affiliation?


----------



## Honey-4-All

What is the "parent company" referenced above?


----------



## beeshield

!st light trading llc


----------



## Oldtimer

beeshield said:


> We have been busy with getting scientific studies set up


Sorry to sound like a non believer but you said the same thing months ago, saying they were due in 2 weeks, never happened.

Secondly as proper studies on Beesheild have never been done why are you making these claims and trying to take peoples money?


----------



## TalonRedding

Not on BBB either.


----------



## beeshield

We are making these claims because we have done the tests ourselves and have seen the results, and I'm not taking peoples money people are buying a product that increases the health of their hive, they are purchasing a solution to many problems, and the only product on the market that I am aware of the deals with the issues of pesticides, Our company is supported by private investors because they had a concerned with what was going on in the bee world and for another reason they have kids that they want to have the same benefits that they had, they are investing a lot into this struggle as they want to replace all of these chemicals that we are using with natural solutions for healthier everybody, and it seems that most are just giving the cold shoulder here. 

On the issues of the tests yes they have taken much longer to get done that I expected, if we lived in a perfect world there wouldn't even be a need for products like ours do to the fact all bee hives would be healthy and strong, but since we don't live in a perfect world things don't always happen how we expect and there are some bumps in the road.

And to Old timer we will provide you with studies and a sample of our product if you are willing to do a real trial with the product and not just say you used it or out of spite say it doesn't work when it does we have never had a customer send back product or be unsatisfied they all agree that what we are saying is the truth so please let me know about your thoughts on this


----------



## MichaBees

So, you want me to buy your un-proven, over priced, non backed with solid science and proper testing product? 
If so; I will sell you my Sunkist from RR; they are the greatest bees most customers never got!
RR sounded just like you, worked and marketed just like you, and took money for not proven advertised "facts" just like you. 
Sorry, but there are a lot of Beeshields trying to save the word one dollar at a time. 
I will take my money where there is a little bit less of non proven advertising, less of manipulation about "saving" something, and more facts.


----------



## Vance G

Thanks for saying it for a fellow stuck-eee! Well said.


----------



## Oldtimer

beeshield said:


> And to Old timer we will provide you with studies and a sample of our product if you are willing to do a real trial with the product


Thanks for the offer but I just don't have the skills or the resources to run a correctly done trial. Whacking some into a hive then saying yeah they did good and writing a testimonial is not a trial.

If I could just see the results of a correctly done trial I would be happy, I don't have to do it myself. My scepticism is because you cannot produce one. Combined with the pseudoscience and total lack of any plausible evidence.

I can sell you some special water. It's cheap at $50 a pint and comes with testimonials. Cures everything wanna buy?


----------



## wildbranch2007

Oldtimer said:


> I can sell you some special water. It's cheap at $50 a pint and comes with testimonials. Cures everything wanna buy?


If shipping is included in the price, seems pretty reasonable to me, does the price go down in bulk orders?


----------



## Oldtimer

I think we could work something out. In fact we are in process of providing you answers without breaking our companies policies of divulging company secrets, to say its been awhile since I have posted on here isn't a lie, We have been busy with getting scientific studies set up for the coming season and working with new relationships in the community. 

The offer isn't pseudo science its science most haven't learned about and we are hear to change that, just like when Pythagoras said the world was round nobody believed him, but he wasn't wrong and we will continue to prove that our product does what we say it does without hesitation.


----------



## jim lyon

Isn't the logical progression to the introduction of a new product. 
A. Product development using different concentrations of different products compared to controls that leads to the refinement of the most promising formulations.
B. Scientifically run side by side field trials proving the efficacy of said new product vs. controls and perhaps even competing products
C. Marketing of new product based on the results of this research.

Hasnt Bee Shield skipped a step?


----------



## Markt

Oldtimer said:


> I think we could work something out. In fact we are in process of providing you answers without breaking our companies policies of divulging company secrets, to say its been awhile since I have posted on here isn't a lie, We have been busy with getting scientific studies set up for the coming season and working with new relationships in the community.
> 
> The offer isn't pseudo science its science most haven't learned about and we are hear to change that, just like when Pythagoras said the world was round nobody believed him, but he wasn't wrong and we will continue to prove that our product does what we say it does without hesitation.


How many easy payments will it be?


----------



## Brent Harding

I would never think that upstanding citizens of this site would lack so much judgment and intelligence, i am offended that some second rate wanna be hacker has used my name on this thread and got everything he said wrong about me, though I am thoughly amused with the fact that just because paulownia trees are on my cover photo on face book I am out of the country farming "teak" if you had done half of your research you would have at least gone to our website but it is apparent that you did not even do that, you have disrespected people that have done no wrong to you out of
what I can only feel is a lack of proper rearing. James Johnson for the record is not a penny stock broker or trader he does however go above and beyond to attempt to help people this goes for his wife as well, if you could be half the human either of them are I would be surprised, on the record shad Sullivan and i have our differences but as a bussiness man and a queen. breeder he is top notch and much like you making slanderous statements about people is your mistake I am sure he has made his in attempt to provide for his family in the "free" country we live in. how dare you presume to speak about people you no nothing of, if you would like I can start digging through all of
your backrounds I assure you I am much better in a computer than you, I have learned in life NO ONE is so perfect as you would think your self enough said on that ...... about our product I could not agree more about disclosure of product ingredients and the 2 nda rate hacker had it figured quite well and if he or she had then proceeded to research Humic he would see our claims are 100 percent accurate based on over 80 years of reasearch on the substance and with that said our humic being superior to other kinds because it being sub bituminous in nature (look it up differences in lignite vs sub bituminous) you would be foolish not to try a product that had been in "field trials for a year and has proven out. though possibly you could care less about your bees and the fate of the worlds food supply and more for your non backed governmental currency and to your rebuttle yes we are trying to sell the product for that same currency at least we are
out trying to help the world ou are simply trying to be everything that is wrong with it.. bottom line the product works it is a humic based product as well as other orgainc ingredients there are so many Monsantos in the world we would rather not get steam rolled by the likes of that company which I am sure you understand if you have ever worked on something from the bottom up and not wanted to lose it to some monopolizing greed *****s try the product or don't your loss. the bee community is small I am sure you know someone that uses it ask them I personally apologize for not having the billfold to fund mind numbing years of study and expense we just don't have (unless you wish to fund this study of course) just to know what we already do it works thank you all for your time...

Sincerely,
Brent Harding
second rate petty criminal 
and teak farmer


----------



## Oldtimer

Brent Harding said:


> Brent Harding
> second rate petty criminal


Your own words.


----------



## Brent Harding

actually no sir no they are not they are someone else's and maybe if you spent more time with your bees and less time being a codjur you might make some friends you and your nitpicking badgering ways simply reflect your lonely sorry life I will get into a pissing match with you bottom line if you cared about your bees you would try to do something only thing I can see you do so far is a fantastic jerk and a second rate smart mouth


----------



## Rader Sidetrack

I guess that this means that the "independent scientific studies" of Bee Shield that were promised earlier in this thread are now not really going to happen .... ?


----------



## Heintz88

Nope that bs "bee shield" product is just another snake oil.


----------



## Honey-4-All

Brent Harding said:


> I would never think that upstanding citizens of this site would lack so much judgment and intelligence, i am offended that some second rate wanna be hacker has used my name on this thread and got everything he said wrong about me------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------- we already do it works thank you all for your time...
> 
> Sincerely,
> Brent Harding
> second rate petty criminal
> and teak farmer


Holy cow Batman. (AKA "second rate" ) Hold on to your panties and let it all lose... Here I thought I was the king of endless discombobulated meaningless and disjointed tirades but acknowledge that I must now bow to the new king of LOCOville !!!!!!! I hereby abdicate.... What the heck was that all about pray tell ? 


Think I'll go and have another gallon of coffee to help digest what I just TRIED to read.... HELP!!!!!!!!!!

PS. Could you please hurry and send me a free sample of "DA ShIELD." Think I might need some for my coffee!


----------



## Oldtimer

Quote. - 

"Brent Harding 

second rate petty criminal"


----------



## cg03026

Dear Bee Shield, you say, "...but science is never exact."
Quite to the contrary. That is _exactly_ what *science* is - _exact_. Just making such a statement induces me to question your understanding of science and the scientific method.
I read your claims... in the other post. Not one substantiated statement. Just claims.
Sorry. I'll be happy to believe (and buy) when I see the data.



beeshield said:


> Other beekeepers do use it, we are getting scientific testing completed in next few weeks from today which I know was a little off from what i said at the show, but science is never exact. I didn't bring any with me as I'm from California and couldn't bring it on plane they took my wine and honey the SDBA gave me on the way back. Plus you should keep track of our website as it always has our updates and will post findings of science study. www.1stlighttrading.com and I can give you numbers of people who use it and love it. I will see you guys at next years show which it would be nice to go to South Dakota again its beautiful there and tell John Stollis thanks for the candy it was delicious.


----------



## mitchgobears

As my mother always told me, "if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is".


----------



## babybee

One of my beekeeper friends tells me that this product is now called apicare. I can't find it online, just the cosmetic product. Either way the guy I know that is using it claims his bees look great.


----------



## cg03026

Oldtimer said:


> I think we could work something out. In fact we are in process of providing you answers without breaking our companies policies of divulging company secrets, to say its been awhile since I have posted on here isn't a lie, We have been busy with getting scientific studies set up for the coming season and working with new relationships in the community.
> 
> The offer isn't pseudo science its science most haven't learned about and we are hear to change that, just like when Pythagoras said the world was round nobody believed him, but he wasn't wrong and we will continue to prove that our product does what we say it does without hesitation.


Yep, "just like Pythagoras"


----------



## max2

babybee said:


> One of my beekeeper friends tells me that this product is now called apicare. I can't find it online, just the cosmetic product. Either way the guy I know that is using it claims his bees look great.


I wonder if any of the tests have been done? I think they where promised last year around Spring?


----------



## Michael Bush

>Yep, "just like Pythagoras"


----------



## AHudd

beeshield said:


> not only to help the industry regain its ability to grow again but to ensure that younger generations know what its like to have choice in foods and the sweet success of honey


"These things you promise we already have." From the book, Gone to Texas

I read the first page of this thread, then the last. Fast forward another year. Have the scientific studies been published or any claims verified? I would really like to know.


----------



## AHudd

Never mind, I just read page 7. That salesman went over the edge. I bet he is being "scientifically studied" somewhere comfortable.


----------



## Honey-4-All

I personally know someone who has used this since its inception on a large ( over 5000 hive operation) and swears by it. As you will note from previous posts regarding this product and the sellers I am not so inclined to be there as of yet.


----------



## AHudd

Honey-4-All said:


> I personally know someone who has used this since its inception on a large ( over 5000 hive operation) and swears by it. As you will note from previous posts regarding this product and the sellers I am not so inclined to be there as of yet.


:thumbsup: Thanks


----------



## Beregondo

beeshield said:


> Gentleman I know that this product is so far from the norm that it sounds like snake oil as there is nothing on the market that claims to control pesticides, but the product will speak for itself in time as you begin to hear more from it and the scientific studies continue


 Well, in the years since this post was made there have been no published scientific studies of this product published on the "News" page of Bee Shield's website.

There are only alarmist articles of the "Omigod the bees are dying" and Monsanto is wicked" ilk.

Nor has the "product will speak for itself in time" resulted in anything the experienced beekeeping community found worthy to warrant continued discussion.

Let new beekeepers take note:
There is no shortage of offers of miracle products with secret ingredients being offered to you.

So many you can go broke trying them all.

But if you want to try snake oil on your bees, its cheaper to catch a snake and press the oil out of it than it is to spending the the fifty bucks these folks charge for a *single quart* of their product.

Caveat emptor.


----------



## beeshield

Hi I'm Justin brown the creator of beeshield, I no longer work for 1st light trading due to bad business practices and I didn't want to be associated with it, but I have followed through with my promises of tests and have a huge amount of beekeeper a that use my product apicare that are more then willing to testify to the fact of how well it works some of them with up to 15,000 hives probably a great deal more then this gentleman above me that must not be as well informed as he thinks he is, so if you know anybody tat knows how to contact me then please feel free but I am no longer beeshield as that is gone with me if that company said anything about that product now I have nothing to do with it but the formula is mine and I left with it thank you


----------



## Oldtimer

opcorn:


----------



## beeshield

This is my new posting name, I can receive emails or inquires on this name, if you would like to see the tests or talk with anybody that uses my product please email me or leave your email and I will contact you with the information, again BEESHIELD, which was created by me now is no more and if anybody says otherwise they are deceiving you, but I have the formula with me and have even improved upon it, I have tests and referrals to prove it thank you again for your time


----------



## beeshield

Old timer that guy eating chips is the neatest thing I have seen in a long time


----------



## Oldtimer

beeshield said:


> have a huge amount of beekeeper a that use my product apicare


So Apicare is the next one we have to watch out for. Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## beeshield

I have all the tests one from the bee informed partnership (university of Maryland) and one done by the USDA, so bad mouth it all you gentleman would like I have proof and I have people that use it that will 100% back me up as well


----------



## camero7

Why not post those tests? That would shut us all up.


----------



## jim lyon

camero7 said:


> Why not post those tests? That would shut us all up.


My thinking as well. As long as you are taking the time to put together a nice web site why not include the research and the referrals?


----------



## beeshield

View attachment T415-AACK-2-Aug.pdf
View attachment 150807153228_0001.pdf



here are the tests one is done by the USDA the bees are from California and the other is done by the Bee informed partnership, if you want referrals you will have to contact me directly


----------



## Rader Sidetrack

Well, Justin, I read both of the PDF files you linked. Neither one of those documents even _mentions_ Beeshield. 

What is the connection?


----------



## beeshield

Of course it doesnt mention BEESHIELD you really havent been reading what I have been posting, I have said numerous times just within the last few days my product is no longer BEESHIELD I no longer work for that company, just read a few posts back and it will explain why, my product is called APICARE, these tests are done on bees by beekeepers that use my product and if needed you can talk to them but i will not post their information in public, if you want to contact them then you need to contact me first. If this isnt good enough then I dont know what could be for you gentlemen


----------



## Oldtimer

So that load of garbage is your "test that proves everyone wrong"?

Dude you are crazy.

It is a test from someones bees showing the levels of nosema in their hives. There is no mention of any trial of apicare, and my bees can test better than that and I don't use apicare, so all I can say is this whole thing is messed up.

Although you keep talking about tests, trials, etc, if that one was the best you got then the fact is you have nothing. And this is after selling the product for years. You are a scammer and a thief.


----------



## Rader Sidetrack

Justin Brown said:


> Of course it doesnt mention BEESHIELD you really havent been reading what I have been posting, I have said numerous times just within the last few days my product is no longer BEESHIELD I no longer work for that company, just read a few posts back and it will explain why, my product is called APICARE ...


Neither of the documents that you posted mentions _Apicare_, either! 



> ... these tests are done on bees by beekeepers that use my product and if needed you can talk to them but i will not post their information in public, if you want to contact them then you need to contact me first. If this isnt good enough then I dont know what could be for you gentlemen


If you really need an example of the kind of comparison test that beekeepers might find convincing, perhaps this page testing/comparing various pollen subs by Randy Oliver would help you ...

http://scientificbeekeeping.com/a-comparative-test-of-the-pollen-sub/

Note how Randy did side-by-side tests of a variety of competing products, and documented the result for each product tested, compared to a "standard".

.


----------



## beeshield

I dont need to prove anything else to you guys at all, in all my time talking with beekeepers have any of you ever talked with me, so you guys think what you will and in time you will hear about my product from someone you know, call me a cheat all you like oldtimer I have plenty of people that know my product works i dont need your endorsement at all, and at this point it really doesnt mean anything to me anyway. you guys have a merry Christmas, if you actually want to talk to me let me know, if you actually want to help your bees let me know, these are guys with over 5000 hives each that move all over the country you have what 50 old timer that stay in the same place yeah okay guy good luck to you and all you do


----------



## jim lyon

Justin, you need to get an independent third party to run some side by side testing of your product vs. an untreated set of control hives and perhaps another competing product as well. This is neither easily done or cheap but it needs to be a process where no one involved in the testing has any financial interest. If the results confirm your claims then you may be onto something and the beekeeping world will beat a path to your door. 
FWIW I just got the results back from the state of South Dakota 12 samples in 3 different locations pulled in early September, all negative for nosema and an average of 4 mites per sample. No mite treatments since an April OA dribble and the last fumidil fed was when I gave in to the ceranae hysteria 8 years ago.


----------



## beeshield

Good to hear Jim, and I will keep your advice in mind, thank you


----------



## JWChesnut

A Hungarian company markets a Humic and Fulvic Acid supplement for bees. Its catalog has (a little bit) more information.
http://www.alpha-vet.com/files/export_katalogus_eng_humic_acid.pdf

Humic acids are big sprawling molecules with many, many binding sites. It is very possible that this ability to bind to agricultural chemicals could decontaminate pesticide residues. 

Without even basic information on the ApiCare solution we can only speculate what is in the bottle.


----------



## Oldtimer

Justin Brown said:


> I dont need to prove anything else to you guys at all,


It's not that you don't need to, it's that you can't.

Clearly you want to, because you been talking about proving it with tests for years, and eventually resorting to posting meaningless prove nothing documents in an attempt to fool people. That's the problem with hawking snake oil that don't work, it cannot be proved.

All the energy you have put into this could have been better spent on some honest pursuit, surely?



Justin Brown said:


> these are guys with over 5000 hives each that move all over the country you have what 50 old timer that stay in the same place yeah okay guy good luck to you and all you do


Maybe you been able to fool some guys with 5000 hives or maybe not, anyone can fall victim to a scam. With the amount of other dishonesty you have spouted I have no idea if I should believe your claim. As to your comments about me, thanks for the wishes of good luck but frankly my bees don't need luck, difficult as it may be to understand they doing fine without being fed Apicare (whatever that is). 50 hives? I'm retired but running around 500 right now, ( I do have some help ), semi retired I guess. In my younger days worked large numbers of hives. If hive numbers are important how many you got Justin Brown, or whoever you are?


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## beeshield

whatever you say old timer enjoy your retirement


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## Oldtimer

Retirement is great. 

New retirement hobby - scam busting, specialising in parasites on the beekeeping industry. 

But hey Justin, you know you could make this whole mess go away don't you? Just show any credible study, like you promised you would. It's that simple for you.

Imagine the crow I would have to eat. Wouldn't you like that?

Oh I forgot. There is no evidence for your claims at all. Is there. None. Nada.


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## FlowerPlanter

Justin Brown said:


> This is my new posting name, I can receive emails or inquires on this name, if you would like to see the tests or talk with anybody that uses my product please email me or leave your email and I will contact you with the information, *again BEESHIELD, which was created by me now is no more and if anybody says otherwise they are deceiving you*, but I have the formula with me and have even improved upon it, I have tests and referrals to prove it thank you again for your time


http://1stlighttrading.com/index.php/organic-products/bee-shield.html

They are still taking orders?

So now there is two LLC companies selling the same product?


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## Barry

beeshield said:


> This is my new posting name,


Guess you didn't read the forum rules.

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?226194-Forum-Rules



> We also do not allow multiple registrations per user.


You're still beeshield on this forum.


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## ECP

ApiCare is listed under the website "apiholdings.com". 

Justin, Apicare is a New Zealand registered trademark. http://www.trademarkia.com/apicare-79168560.html


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## Oldtimer

Nice research ECP. They make cosmetics, soaps, etc based on products from the hive, here is their web site http://www.apicare.co.nz/

NZ based but nothing to do with me by the way.

Looks like Beeshield failed to do any research before attempting to pirate the already trademarked name Apicare.

But hey, Beeshield never does any research or even understands research. His own product has no research, so why would he research a trademark? No surprise there.


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## USCBeeMan

I haven't been on this site, or any other bee site, in quite some time. (Or is it sometime) Anyway I don't have a dog in this fight. Mr Y you sure seem to have one. 

To be honest, I haven't read all of the 9 pages. So if I missed something, I am sorry. The evidence seems to be in the corner of snake oil. There are just too many things that have been said to dispute Beeshield findings with no attempt to back them up with data or people that are actually known on this site. 

Me thinks that you have some kind of $$$ interest in this company/product. All of your diatribe seems to be a smoke bomb to keep people wondering if this product is really the "holy grail" of bee keeping.


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## JWChesnut

The Facebook West Coast beekeeper thread (misnamed as it largely consists of Portland area hobbyists) has a post by someone using this product for the first time.


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## jwcarlson

Looks like he spilled the blood of a sacrificial lamb over his bee hive. Probably the same effect as Beeshield/Apicare.


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## USCBeeMan

Not sure what the picture is proving. He tried to kill the hive and they lived or that he used beeshield, tried to kill the hive and they lived. Either way I don't see anything to prove that Beeshield works. One thing that I have found out about bees, they are very resiliant at times if they have not been weakened by some other source.


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## Michael Bush

The picture looks like ATF (automatic transmission fluid)...


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## BLACKWATER

perhaps there are things yet to be revealed.............. A Quote that can be googled. "Transfer Factor and Fulvic Factor relationships
Not to be confused with commercial products of similar name, the scientific term "transfer factor" was added to dictionaries in 1956.* Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary defines "transfer factor" as "a substance that is produced and secreted by a lymphocyte functioning in cell-mediated immunity and that upon incorporation into a lymphocyte which has not been sensitized confers on it the same immunological specificity as the sensitized cell".
What this all means, is that when immune system cells have battled with specific disease invaders, they produce a substance that transfers a message of warning on to other immune cells. The newly alerted immune cells "remember" the warning message, producing the same substance, alerting other immune cells. Once alerted, the immune cells always "remember" who the specific enemy is, and how to attack it.
Because scientists were unable to actually identify this unknown immune stimulating substance, they coined the simple term "transfer factor" to describe it. Even to this day scientists still don't fully understand this substance. What they do know is that every mother (human or mammal) that breast feeds her baby, passes all of the immunity gained throughout her lifetime on to her infant. This immunity is "transferred" through her first milk, called colostrums. The most valuable "immunity weapon" in colostrum is called "transfer factor".
Transfer factor has been studied for decades by scientists from all over the world, and thousands of studies exist. Yet to this day science still knows very little about its makeup or the mysterious ways in which it actually works.* But they do know that it works and can be the difference between life and death when disease invaders attack.
When scientists remove every larger and identifiable component from colostrum, including milk, whey, individual cells, etc., what remains last of all is the ultramicroscopic transfer factor.* Transfer factor has been best described as tiny fragments of molecules, possibly DNA fragments, that somehow remain functional. These fragments seem to be energized with some unknown mysterious power of self-replicating communication.*
Interestingly, in many ways the scientific studies on the mysteries and mechanisms of fulvic acid parallel exactly the studies on transfer factor. So far as we know, no other scientists have actually put the two together. Scientists working with fulvic acid know that it also is an ultramicroscopic substance that has a most unique messaging relay system that is activated when it comes into contact with living organisms. Just like transfer factor, fulvic acid sensitizes cells, passing on unique information related to immunity. It also has been shown to assist in activating protection and defense mechanisms that are able to be passed on and remain with the organism for life, even with just one contact.
All living organisms produce immune stimulating substances that help with protection from infectious disease. This includes humans, plants, animals, and microorganisms. When you understand that fulvic acid is the end product of decomposition of all once living matter, it is easy to understand how it would carry similar transfer factor-like substances. Every plant, animal, and microscopic organism involved in the process of decomposition, developed its own transfer factor-like substances while fighting off microscopic invaders, infections, and viruses. Each cycle of decomposition allows more such substances to be created. Fulvic acid is the sum total of all of this, and in that sense is Mother Nature's "first milk" or "colostrum", meant for giving defense protection messages to all living creatures. It also has the ability to pass up the food chain from one organism to the next, just like a mother's first milk passes transfer factor to her offspring."
THIS IS introductory amazement to me............. to bee sure there is more


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## BLACKWATER

Good research.......... I have personally been taking Humic acid daily for the last 8 or more months. I have many realtime observations to share... also check out this US Patent Application number US 13/963,763 for a humic acid health booster for bees.


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## beeshield

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w64NeenUNPE


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## Oldtimer

Well I'm impressed. After you been selling it for 4 years already you finally got around to trying it on 24 hives to see if it actually works.

I note in the video you were constantly referring to snake oil, and also the "brutal" bee forums.

LOL 

Oh, the results of your trial are no good. First off it was done by you, no independant verification, and I don't trust you far as I could kick you. Second, you claim no difference in hives it was fed to and hives it was not fed to. But only more bees in hives it was sprayed on. But there is something wrong with the whole trial because you claim the hives it was sprayed on ended up with 5 frames of bees, but the ones it was fed to, and the ones it was not fed to, ended up with 1 frame of bees. They are obviously pretty sick hives. Healthy hives should be used.

But hey, there's always another sucker ready to be parted from his money, right?


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