# Is it worth testing to determine if they are Africanized Honey Bees?



## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

Pedigree has never mattered to me. Manageable is the name of the game. It sounds like their aggressiveness isn't tied to a cloudy day, queenlessness, etc. It sounds like they're just an aggressive hive. I, personally, wouldn't get them tested, I would requeen and call it good and probably move them out to the sticks until they were successfully requeened.


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## ToeOfDog (Sep 25, 2013)

"They have tried to requeen the hive but those attempts have failed."

Consider calling your State bee inspector. You can call the Dept of Ag in Montgomery to find out the one in north Ala. The State pays attention when possible AHB is involved.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I always figure if your actions will be the same either way, what does it matter to you? Are you not going to requeen if they are not AHB? Are you not going to requeen if they ARE AHB? Seems to me you're going to requeen either way...


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## Paul McCarty (Mar 30, 2011)

There should not be African genetics in Alabama - it is far too wet. That being said, if they are hot who cares - requeen.


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## hillbeekeeper (Mar 11, 2013)

Gonna agree with Paul on this one. Most likely, that colony has some Amm genetics that still float around down here. I have a similar colony in my yard. They follow me for 100 yards after working them. And you sure don't want to breathe or blow on them! Just waitin' on the replacement queeno finish cookin'. Then, off with her head!


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## Sonoramic413 (Aug 10, 2013)

Paul McCarty said:


> There should not be African genetics in Alabama - it is far too wet. That being said, if they are hot who cares - requeen.


 I've heard that and I'm confused. . Didn't they cross rainforests to get here?


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## Annabee (Jul 25, 2013)

Sonoramic413 said:


> I've heard that and I'm confused. . Didn't they cross rainforests to get here?



They would have to, I think. I personally feel the AHB is adapting, and just moving on ...


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>The State pays attention when possible AHB is involved. 

That seems like a very good reason NOT to test... I fail to understand the idea of mapping the spread of AHB and assuming that AHB are only moving on their own when there are queen breeders in AHB areas shipping queens all over the US... anywhere could have AHB, but whether they are or are not AHB mean bees should be requeened for public safety reasons...


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## Sonoramic413 (Aug 10, 2013)

Michael Bush said:


> >only moving on their own when there are queen breeders in AHB areas shipping queens all over the US... anywhere could have AHB...
> ..


Or all these damaged cargo containers I see rolling north on trains and trucks..


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

Michael Bush said:


> >The State pays attention when possible AHB is involved.
> 
> That seems like a very good reason NOT to test... I fail to understand the idea of mapping the spread of AHB and assuming that AHB are only moving on their own when there are queen breeders in AHB areas shipping queens all over the US... anywhere could have AHB, but whether they are or are not AHB mean bees should be requeened for public safety reasons...



yip and I think one of those queens make it to IL. My "neighbor" ( closest beekeeper about 2.5 mi away) got a queen from TX last yr that was determined to be AHB the ive went crazy and state inspector came out and got a sample and then killed it. He then inspected every hive in a X mile radius??? to determine if they had spread locally. So far it seems to have been contained and was killed prior to any swarming, although I'm sure she produced drones so who really knows how much that will effect the temper of local bees??


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## Bees In Miami (Nov 30, 2012)

Paul McCarty said:


> There should not be African genetics in Alabama - it is far too wet. That being said, if they are hot who cares - requeen.


Hmmmm...Yet there are AHB genetics in Florida?

There is no stopping the spread of the AHB genetics as long as beeks are able to bring their bees to AHB territory and open mate splits...

To the OP...if the bees are too hot to work, they are too hot to work. They WILL requeen themselves eventually...and as long as there are some nice drones to be found, the hive will settle down. Requeening a nasty hive is the worst. ALL QC's have to be destroyed. If there are AHB genetics, they'll just laugh at a Euro queen, and supersede her anyways. Remember...the temperament is most dictated by the drones. They should settle down once a re-queen happens on their own. What did they do to re-queen that failed?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Call your Apiary Inspector. Then requeen if possible. If that doesn't work, kill the colony.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Bees In Miami said:


> Hmmmm...Yet there are AHB genetics in Florida?
> Requeening a nasty hive is the worst. ALL QC's have to be destroyed. If there are AHB genetics, they'll just laugh at a Euro queen, and supersede her anyways. Remember...the temperament is most dictated by the drones. They should settle down once a re-queen happens on their own. What did they do to re-queen that failed?


So have you dealt with AHB in your area and if so, you have seen them " eventually requeen and settle down"?
You have tried and failed at Requeening an AHB hive?
Why would there be QC's to destroy if you are reintroducing a queen immediately after killing a queen?
Inquiring minds want to know.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Paul McCarty said:


> There should not be African genetics in Alabama - it is far too wet. That being said, if they are hot who cares - requeen.


Mobile, AL...early 90's (I believe it was) AHB confirmed. Thoughts were that it came in on a freighter into Mobile Bay.

Albany and Bainbridge, GA...within the last several years. Not in Alabama, but basically the same climate and a rocks throw across the stateline. An AHB colony found in both towns...one person was killed by the bees while they were pushing up an old demolished house.

Within the last 2 or 3 years AHB genes were found in a colony in Tennessee, I believe it was. These came from a package from Georgia.

Nothing is absolute. Thankfully, though, Alabama (and Mississippi) does have a slight climate difference from it's neighboring states that supposedly will help in regards to AHB intrusion. Last I heard the string of swarm traps that ring the southern and southeastern boundaries of the state have not caught any colonies with AHB genes...but it has been close to a year since I talked with anyone about them. 

Brad, being up in your area I would almost think they are going to simply (hopefully?) be some very hot Europeans...unless they are the result of an imported package or something. I don't think that there is a natural "corridor" for africans to travel to get to you...yet.

Email Dennis Barclift with the state, he may very well want to take a sample of them.

Ed


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## Dan. NY (Apr 15, 2011)

I dont have a ton of experience like some here but as an idea to requeen why wouldnt the following work?

Remove the queen, no matter how painful and remove all frames with eggs. Shake frames so no bees are on frames and place into another hive. Remove same number of egg frames from non hot hive and stick in hot hive. Hot hive will select egg from newly placed non hot hive for queen. Cant see how this would fail. ??


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## Bees In Miami (Nov 30, 2012)

jim lyon said:


> So have you dealt with AHB in your area and if so, you have seen them " eventually requeen and settle down"?
> You have tried and failed at Requeening an AHB hive?
> Why would there be QC's to destroy if you are reintroducing a queen immediately after killing a queen?
> Inquiring minds want to know.


Jim.....Yes to dealing with AHB in this area....And I have absoLUTEly seen the temperament of a colony change after their own re-queen. No question about it! And yes, I spent good money on a few queens, never to be seen again. Seems they just let her lay enough to supercede her. I have been very fortunate with the colonies in my apiary. For the most part, they're all pretty nice. Except when they're not... :lookout: I have never introduced a new queen "immediately"....I see that as a death sentence.


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## Paul McCarty (Mar 30, 2011)

For those wondering about my comment on rainfall and Brazilian/AHB - their brood and swarming cycle is based on rainfall. They tend not to populate areas with a lot of wet and humidity. They literally swarm themselves to death from what I understand, being triggered by the rain. This is why they are rarely found East of Texas, except for isolated mostly tropical areas, like Florida. It seems to be the limiting factor in their spread, much more so than cold, etc. They need distinct rainy seasons followed by nectar flows - intermittent or frequent rainy seasons messes up their cycle.


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## Bees In Miami (Nov 30, 2012)

Paul...I am not posting to be annoying...truly curious to your sources. Swarm season never seems to end down here, rain or not. Swarms slow once rainy season hits, and picks up again when rainy season is over, but we still have swarms. Are you saying AHB swarm MORE in rainy season? (I believe Florida is the only state that has true documented swarms all year round) I'd love to know more about the basis of your statements...for my own learning. I know New Mexico is right up there in the whole AHB reality. Thanks. I also continuously wonder how people think AHB spread is being limited while people still truck bees all over the country. We have a huge influx of Northern beeks around November...to capitalize on our flow and make their splits...which they open mate. So...truck those hives back to NC/SC/IL/OK/MI or _wherever_, there's no way to know the imported genetics brought into that region.


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## Paul McCarty (Mar 30, 2011)

My opinion is mostly from observation of our genetically weak locals and in part from knowledge passed on by those who work with the full strength variety from Mexico. Part of the reason they have never been able to truly establish themselves in NM is that when the rainy season starts, the blooms do not always follow. Above 6000' or so we don't have them either, as it is too wet and the bloom cycle is not right. But yes, as you stated before African genetics has been trucked around our country for decades, and is still being trucked around. Add to that, there have been nearly 15 documented prior releases of African genetics into our nation before the Brazilians - so yes, you never really know what you are going to get. 

Like any other animal, there are certain climate zones they establish themselves in, and seem to gravitate or avoid, at least until they hybridize and become indistinguishable from regular old dark mutt ferals. In the case of Scutellata, they are a creature of the South African savannah and grasslands and the associated rainy seasons, which they depend on for food sources. The likely-hood of running across them in a humid coastal woodland is not as great as running across them in South Texas, with it's associated rainy seasons and dry periods. I would venture to guess AMM would be the likely candidate, but most people cannot tell the difference (if there is one any more). Florida is an anomaly, but from what I understand it does have a monsoonal rain pattern to some degree with interspersed dry periods in many places, so it would make sense to see bees like that there. Again, just my opinion on it.


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

Thanks for all the replies. If this were my hive, I would kill them. They have tried to requeen a couple times, but the bees have killed the introduced queen and raised their own each time they have tried it. I know it's possible to make them hopelessly queenless and then introduce a queen, but they haven't done that. They have bees, just to have bees and really don't do a whole lot to them. They let them swarm at will to try and re-establish a local feral population. They probably go into their hives a couple times per year. They want me to go through the hot hive but I have seen enough from a distance to know that I will leave well enough alone. They rob very little honey and don't treat for anything. They rarely lose a colony of bees. Not during the winter, not because of mites, not because of neglect, they just don't lose many bees, period. I know brood breaks from swarming help mite numbers in the spring, so that may help survival, but maybe it's because they don't take honey from the hives. I suspect that has a large positive effect on their lack of losses but others may disagree.


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

The plot thickens.....

I found this out this morning. I guess it was not up to me to decide whether to test or not. Friday afternoon a horse was killed by honeybees from a feral hive about 5 miles from this beekeepers house. The beekeeper that I mentioned in this thread called me to find out how to get his hives checked. I have a card for our new field person who works with the state apiarist so I called him and gave him my friends phone number. The state apiarist department is in route to test the bees on site where the horse was killed and the beekeeper that I have mentioned in this thread is going to have his exceptionally hot hive tested. 

According to the field guy for the apiarist department that I talked to on the phone there have been 3 swarms of bees in AL that have been identified as Africanized. Two were swarms down on the south edge of the state and one was a swarm at the Huntsville Intl Airport. Huntsville is about 35-40 miles NW of here.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Ooooh. That's not good news, not at all. Did the State Apiarist say where and when the africans were found on the southern border? It must have been within the last eight months as none were discussed at the ABA meeting in Montgomery last fall, though it could have been talked this past February in Auburn at the Bee Symposium.

Ed


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

He did not. If I get an opportunity, I will ask him. I really, really wish I had time to go with him today. He had no formal training in beekeeping prior to taking the job and is not an entemologist. (only in AL, huh?) He has been on the job for 8 months. He is a super nice kid but I'm afraid he's in for a rude awakening here in a little while........


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## Paul McCarty (Mar 30, 2011)

How can one be an apiarist and never have been a beekeeper?


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Brad Bee said:


> ...and is not an entemologist. (only in AL, huh?) He has been on the job for 8 months. He is a super nice kid but I'm afraid he's in for a rude awakening here in a little while........


Well, keep your ears open for the faint sound of a man screaming like a little girl to come wafting along with the breeze through those hills and hollers....  ...hopeully not.

I think this guy was introduced last year at the bee meeting in Montgomery. Seemed like a nice guy as I recall. Something tells me he's already been introduced to some hot ladies so hopefully it won't be his first rodeo.<sigh>

Keep us posted.

Ed


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

Paul McCarty said:


> How can one be an apiarist and never have been a beekeeper?


On the job training I guess.


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

Intheswamp said:


> I think this guy was introduced last year at the bee meeting in Montgomery. Seemed like a nice guy as I recall. Something tells me he's already been introduced to some hot ladies so hopefully it won't be his first rodeo.<sigh>
> 
> Keep us posted.
> 
> Ed


That would have been about the time he was hired I suppose. I will update the thread as I find out more info.


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

Paul McCarty said:


> How can one be an apiarist and never have been a beekeeper?


Well just speculating; You start with the general belief that all government employees are bums. Then you do not raise wages for 4 or 5 years to cut back wasteful spending.

In Maine that has roughly only 22 of 66 lifeguard positions filled for state parks just as they are opening. Pays a little above minimum wage and takes 3 to 5 hundred $ and something like 32 hours of training to qualify to apply for the job. Job does not last all summer due to funding cuts.

Similar situation here?


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Paul McCarty said:


> How can one be an apiarist and never have been a beekeeper?


I don't know if it means anything, but Brad did say "formal training"...I've got eight hives and been keeping bees now for 3+ years, have done a couple of cutouts and hived swarms. Been stung a bunch to!!  But, I've never had any "formal training". I *think* I could term myself an apiarist.

Or...Brad might have meant as you interpreted it, that this guy was a complete greenhorn and those bees are gonna light him up!!!! 

I don't think the state would have hired him for this particular job without him having some experience with bees. At least I don't think they would have hired him with out some experience. Our local city council hired a policeman several years ago. Big young guy in his upper thirties that had driven a pulpwood truck all of his life. The police were standing around at the department one day when one of the senior guy told Bubba (his real name) to take the squad car and fill it up with gas. Bubba stood around a few minutes kinda shuffling his feet and hesitating when one of the other guys asked him if he was going to go gas the patrol car up, or not. He finally told him that he didn't have a driver's license...had never had one. :lpf: Naturally the city had to quickly get him a driver's license.  So, this state apiarist, if conditions were right, may have never been in a beehive prior to getting hired.

FWIW 
Ed

SIDE NOTE: At the time of the licenseless policeman the police department building consisted of a one room building measuring roughly 6-7 feet by about 12-14 feet...3 windows a door and an airconditioner hanging out one end. It was built onto the corner of my father's store back in the 50's and served as the station up until the mid to late 70's.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Paul McCarty said:


> How can one be an apiarist and never have been a beekeeper?


It happens. State Apiculturalists are mostly administrators, not Apiary Inspectors. So often, they don't have to know anything about bees or beekeeping, they need to know how to run an office.

I imagine that the AL State Apiculturalist has one or more jobs having nothing to do w/ honeybees. NY and SC are like that. OH State Apiary Inspectors used to do horticultural inspections too, inspecting Christmas tree farms and such. So I'm not surprised that the AL State Apiculturalist isn't a beekeeper and isn't an entomologist either.

I hope he knows enough to know that he will need protective clothing.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Saltybee said:


> Well just speculating; You start with the general belief that all government employees are bums. Then you do not raise wages for 4 or 5 years to cut back wasteful spending.
> 
> In Maine that has roughly only 22 of 66 lifeguard positions filled for state parks just as they are opening. Pays a little above minimum wage and takes 3 to 5 hundred $ and something like 32 hours of training to qualify to apply for the job. Job does not last all summer due to funding cuts.
> 
> Similar situation here?


That seems pretty harsh Saltybee. Bums? If honeybees were important to AL and the beekeepers of AL stood up for Apiary Inspection and the budget allowed maybe someone better could be afforded employment. You get what you pay for. You pay for what you can afford. I don't know what you expect.


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## Paul McCarty (Mar 30, 2011)

I think his speculation the "all government employees are bums" is a statement on the way the organization is managed and funded by the state. Less government is better you know.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Intheswamp said:


> I don't know if it means anything, but Brad did say "formal training"...I've got eight hives and been keeping bees now for 3+ years, have done a couple of cutouts and hived swarms. Been stung a bunch to!!  But, I've never had any "formal training". I *think* I could term myself an apiarist.
> 
> Or...Brad might have meant as you interpreted it, that this guy was a complete greenhorn and those bees are gonna light him up!!!!
> 
> ...


"What? Fill it up w/ gas? Won't that just ruin the inside of the car? And how would I drive it?"


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

Not my view at all. Mostly they are like everybody else. My wife is a private contractor for several municipal governments. The attitude of people walking through the door in the last few years is highly negative before any conversation begins. Many seem to feel you should hang your head in shame if you are a civil servant. Fired up on Fox before visiting the town hall. Does not make an appealing work space.

Leaving hiring/pay freezes in place for several years is just a way to avoid making choices, maybe it is just the easy choice.

sqkcrk, sorry, sarcasm got the best of me.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Saltybee said:


> sqkcrk, sorry, sarcasm got the best of me.


My Dad was a Civil Servant worked for thge US Naval Oceanographic Office, sailed a desk as he put it. I spent 20 years as an Apiary Inspector. I know my Dad worked as hard as he was allowed to and I feel I did a decent job and was paid pretty well for it, even if it was seasonal.

So, I figure that most Civil Servants do what they do as well as they can under the circumstances and then they are easy targets. Shucks, whenever three or four beekeepers are standing around and only one is actually doing something I am as likely as anyone else to point out how it looks like we should be wearing reflective vests. Nothing wrong w/ a little humor now and then.

Anyway. I hope the young man has some smarts and some help and doesn't get badly stung. Is there only one person in AL that does apiary inspection work? Are there no seasoned or retired Apiary Inspectors in AL?


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

I talked to my buddy today and all went well. The horse carcass was examined and it had over 100 stings on one ear. The odd thing is that the horse was laying very close to the hive. Like it didn't try to run away. The young man took bees from my friends hive as well. He got 5 supers deep into the hive before they got bad. My friend said that the bees were being pretty cooperative until the guy tried to wipe some off a frame, into the specimen jar. He said that's when they got nasty. The bees followed them for over 200 yards when they got out of the hive.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Then they took a flame thrower to it. Right?


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

sqkcrk said:


> Then they took a flame thrower to it. Right?


No. They're waiting on the tests I guess. I would have taken a flame thrower, mixed with some sulfur to it.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Hot EHB or AHB...it doesn't matter, I've no use for bees that will follow you for 200 yards!!! 

That's mighty scary for this newbie!!!! My hives are behind my house...about 200 feet away from the house, about 150' from the grandchildren's swing set. Begins to make me start wondering if the hives are too close to traffic/living areas. :s I like having the hives within easy reach from the house but it's got me to thinking...

Ed


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

I agree Ed. I don't know why he doesn't get rid of them. It's his choice though.


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

Prediction; There will be a change or exclusion in homeowner's liability policies for beekeepers. The legal standard of "known or should have known' is well past after your hive kills a horse, or chases you 200 feet.


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

One thing I do not get; Why were a horse and hive together? Some horses have pretty compulsive behaviors. Was the horse a compulsive whom kept investigating (bothering) the hive? Fits with dying next to the hive. Poke any hive several times a day and they will not be nice.


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

Saltybee said:


> One thing I do not get; Why were a horse and hive together? Some horses have pretty compulsive behaviors. Was the horse a compulsive whom kept investigating (bothering) the hive? Fits with dying next to the hive. Poke any hive several times a day and they will not be nice.


The horse was stung by bees in a feral hive. The guy that owns the extremely hot hive has them in the middle of a 500 acre piece of property that he owns. They aren't bothering anyone but him. Two separate sets of bees. If he's okay with his hot bees, then more power to him. The only reason that I originally talked to him about having his hive tested was so if they are Africanized, they can be destroyed and eliminated from the gene pool. I doubt any queen I ever raise will mate with any drone that his hives produce but over time the genetics of his bees could work there way close enough that my queens could mate with bees whose lineage would go back to his hives. 

I have 6 hives that are separated from our cattle by nothing more than a barbed wire fence. The cows rarely get stung, but I have seen the bees push them back away from the fence a couple of times.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Yeah, african or simply really hot bees, you don't want that trait filtering into the gene pool your bees draw from. Has the guy actually said anything for or against killing the colony? 

If you had'em to spare I wonder if he'd accept 2-3 queen cells to put in the hot hive and see if the bees would allow a supercedure to happen?

Ed


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

Joseph Clemens has posted many times of the methods he has found best to keep his bees European. Extra work that needs to be adopted if Africans have established feral hives locally. I would want to know.
Politically, beekeepers need to appear aware of and actively combating AHB. Even if that will be a win less battle. Message needs to be keepers are combating AFB spread by constantly reinforcing the European traits. More managed hives are a good thing, banning bees is bad policy.

Hot bees are the same as AFB is not a message that the public is going to accept.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Hot bees are the same as AFB is not a message that the public is going to accept. 

Exactly.


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

The more I think about the question the less comfortable I am with the concept of not testing. While it is true you may cure your immediate personal problem with a requeening, it is not that simple. If you have 1 AHB hive and you requeen that is the end of AHB in one hive. How are you certain of how and when you were contaminated? From a feral source?

If that AHB in even the slightest chance came from a feral hive you have a moral responsibility to warn the general public. The fact that the public might overreact does not mitigate your responsibility.

Would you, as a parent feel betrayed if your child was injured by a feral AHB hive only to find out that the possibility existed in your neighborhood and someone did nothing to warn you? Would you feel that inaction was simply inaction or would you feel it was a deliberate cover up?


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

Brad Bee, thank you for the clarification. Placing hot hives in the middle of 500 acres is pretty safe. On the other hand; personally my view is that a burglar who gets injured on the job deserves it twice over. However my view I hear, does not stop burglars from collecting damages.

Same for trespassers I am afraid.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>The more I think about the question the less comfortable I am with the concept of not testing.

What are you going to differently if they are? If they are not?

And even the assumption that testing means anything since beekeepers were bringing African genes here since at least the 1800s and the USDA was breeding them and shipping them all over since the 1960s.

And then the attitude that somehow we have to have an explanation if any are found, that doesn't involve beekeepers simply selling queens and moving bees. Instead it has to involve hitchhiking swarms and gradual migration.

We need to keep breeding out aggressive bees as beekeepers have been doing for centuries...


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

Michael, Yes or no AHB would not change my immediate act of requeening. It would cause me to reread all of Joseph's posts on managing hives to prevent usurpation.
If I was in an area where AHB was known as a possibility by the general public, I agree, I would not test either, the default assumption would be if it could be or acts like AHB then treat it as if it is AHB. Old news is no news in that case.

It is in the transition areas where we disagree. If the general public might be caught unaware by possible feral AHB they have the right to that knowledge. If local beekeepers do not expect AHB it is very unlikely the public opening up a storage shred they seldom use is going to be using the caution they would if a possibility of AHB was known.

I am not saying every hot hive should be checked, these are hives beekeepers are seeing as exceptions.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>It is in the transition areas where we disagree.

The "transition areas" are the planet earth. Certainly there is no where in North American where people have not, and in almost all cases, are not still, having open mated queens shipped from known Africanized areas. Not to mention hives being taken to and then returned from Africanized areas. It's not realistic to assume there is anywhere in North or South America where hot bees could not be Africanized. I see nothing to be proved by testing nor anything I would change in my response to "hot" bees as a result of testing. There were hot bees before the AHB craze and there will be as it continues. The biggest danger in my opinion, is trying to keep pure European bees in an Africanized area because you get F1 crosses that are vicious. Better to choose nice bees from the local ferals and stop trying to maintain the illusion that there is such a thing as pure European bees in North America or that if we could get pure European bees, that it would be safer to try to keep them. They will supersede and then you will have vicious F1 crosses instead of moderate local feral stock.

>using the caution they would if a possibility of AHB was known. 

The possibility of AHB is known in all of North and South America. People are still shipping open mated queens from Florida and Texas and other Africanized areas all over the US on a daily basis.


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

You are right, realistically there are no true transition zones left. Do not think the public is aware of that. That is my point, and I guess yours as well.


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

So even manageable colonies of AHB will reap the whirlwind by not only the uneducated public but by beekeepers who should know better. I talked to a beekeeper from Guatemala who, when confronted with an extremely hot hive, requeened it... with another AHB queen to calm it down.
:ws:
Imagine that.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

*Get any lab test results back yet? ...been a*

Has anyone heard from the state about the AHB test results for the bees that killed the horse or the bees belonging to Brad's neighbor? It's been almost two weeks since samples were taken. For some reason I was thinking it didn't take very long at all to get this type of testing done. Anybody? :s

Thanks,
Ed


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

*Re: Get any lab test results back yet? ...been a*

>requeened it... with another AHB queen to calm it down. Imagine that. 

If I was in an AHB area that's what I would do. Requeening with EHB in an AHB area is the most likely way to end up with vicious F1 hybrid bees. I know a lot of people with bees in AHB areas who work with what is there and have few problems with vicious bees. Others who bring in EHB have major issues...


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## Paul McCarty (Mar 30, 2011)

*Re: Get any lab test results back yet? ...been a*

Michael Bush speaks the truth. 

Now about testing, most of the testing I have done had about a 3 month turn-around. Hardly worth it. Just requeen if hot. If not hot and manageable, don't worry about it. I know lot's of beeks who do this very thing.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

*Re: Get any lab test results back yet? ...been a*

Paul, probably the quick turn-around of lab tests that I recall were after an AHB attack in southwest Georgia. A guy was pushing up an old house place with a tractor and disturbed them...he was killed. I would think that circumstances such as that will get tests "fast tracked" through the system. I wonder if a horse death would warrant the bumping the bee sample towards the front of the line by the lab? But, like you said requeen if hot, whether AHB or not.

Ed


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

*Re: Get any lab test results back yet? ...been a*



Michael Bush said:


> Requeening with EHB in an AHB area is the most likely way to end up with vicious F1 hybrid bees.


So if we started with an africanized queen and bread her with a european drone the f1 generation will be...?

Requeening with EHB in an AHB area... what about the f2, when the f2 would be an f1 queen with ehb drone or a ahb drone for that matter?

Actually my question is which combination works to calm them down the quickest. The scenario I would think would happen here is an AHB colony hitching a ride here somehow and then supercedure queens or swarm queens having to mate with the abundant EHB drones. How willthe f1 of this match turn out?


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## Paul McCarty (Mar 30, 2011)

I have always heard Carnies are the best queens to cross with Africans. That is what I started with. I do not have aggression problems when they are open mated with the locals, which usually have varying amounts of African genetics. The Italianish bees don't do as well in my opinion. They do get a bit frisky in my observations. I am no scientists though, and I may be way off-base.


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