# requeening - what's best



## BadBeeKeeper (Jan 24, 2015)

What sort of queen are you looking at? Italian, Carniolan, Russian, other? In my opinion, your first choice as a beginner should be to put the genetics of survivability for the climate in your favor. Dead bees don't require you to make a choice as to whether to treat or not.


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## MartinW (Feb 28, 2015)

Hello BadBeeKeeper. I'm happy with any mutt queen that overwinters and is resistant to pests. So, you're arguing that there is not intervention for bad climate genetics, so buy that in a queen, then select for natural pest resistance over time. As opposed to good, natural pest resistance will improve the chances of overwintering and success in a new climate? Thanks. I'll think about this.


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## BadBeeKeeper (Jan 24, 2015)

MartinW said:


> So, you're arguing that there is not intervention for bad climate genetics


Nope, not arguing at all, merely suggesting that you want the odds in your favor, that some traits may be more preferable than others, and that as a "beginner" some factors may be easier for you to deal with. You could, for instance, select Russian, Hybrid or other with VSH traits. But recessive genes and the haploid/diploid nature of bee reproduction means that you may need to take specific steps to maintain the desired characteristics. Do you have the experience/ability to work with that?

It could be that a Russian queen would fit your desire for certain characteristics, and they are said to over-winter well. However, some say that they are very aggressive and poor honey producers.

What are your reasons for keeping bees? Do you want to get honey? Or do you just want to keep bees? What are your reasons for wanting to be "treatment free"? (You don't need to answer these questions for me, only for yourself.)

I see that you are looking for a used suit/equipment, which suggests that you are on a budget and (with your stating that you are a newbie) lack experience. My experiences with not treating, in addition to cold climate, have not gone particularly well and I have spent a considerable sum of money replacing bees that have died (in addition to making my own splits). Can you afford to do that? I would suggest that you get bees that are known to tolerate your area well, get experience keeping them, and then work towards other goals.

There *are* measures that can be taken to account for poor climate, I insulate. Another member who lives further north, actually moves his bees into a shed for the winter.

My Carniolans seem to do fairly well, and though they were not advertised as being "hygienic" I have observed at least one hive demonstrating what appears to be more hygienic behavior than others.


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## bolter (Jun 27, 2013)

You could do "walk away" splits with your best surviving queen(s) & there use their genetics.


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

MartinW said:


> Hello. I’m a Midwest Newbee, tbh, hobbyist trying to go treatment free. What’s best for requeening a package – local supplier that uses traditional treatments, but has bred bees that are reputed to overwinter well in our climate; an out of region, treatment free supplier reputed to have bred treatment free bees for several years, also in a harsh winter climate? Why? Thanks.


With those two choices, I would go with the out of region, treatment free bees from a harsh winter climate. The reason is that they seem reasonably calculated to have disease resistance and winter survivability.


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## MartinW (Feb 28, 2015)

Thanks everyone. Very helpful.


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## Andrew Dewey (Aug 23, 2005)

Queens and genetics are a perpetual challenge. Walk away splits are great if done at the right time of year and you are prepared for and can work with the brood break. Beekeepers in some climates have a relatively short window for successful queen mating.

My feeling concurs with BadBeeKeeper - that your first concern ought to be to acquire bees that can survive in your area. What I tell my classes is that there is live stock and dead stock and I'd rather work with live stock. (ok, so as a joke, it isn't great!)

If you stick with the hobby and decide to invest more money in it, there are all sorts of wonder queens out there. I've tried many and haven't yet found one whose offspring thrive in my climate and produce marketable quantities of surplus honey, all without treatments or interventions on my part. But please don't take that as I've stopped searching - just that I haven't been successful so far.

You'll find lots of good information in this forum from lots of people who have had treatment free success and people who like me who are trying to get there.

Welcome to Bee Source!


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

Honestly, I find bees survive better if the beekeeper knows what they are doing and sets them up for success. Worrying about genetics the first year is at the bottom of the list honestly. How do you know the package bees will be duds if you never give them a chance.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>What’s best for requeening a package – local supplier that uses traditional treatments, but has bred bees that are reputed to overwinter well in our climate

In my experience, once I get them on natural sized cells, Varroa took care of itself. Wintering became the bigger issue...

> an out of region, treatment free supplier reputed to have bred treatment free bees for several years, also in a harsh winter climate?

Well, if the climate as as harsh I would probably prefer these.

> Why? 

Treatment free is more likely to have healthy microbes and if they also can winter you have probably the best mix you can get.


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## StevenG (Mar 27, 2009)

Martin, you want to go treatment free, but are uncertain whether to buy "local" bees that require treatments. OR Non-local bees that are treatment free, but supposedly have been bred in a climate as harsh as yours. IF I understand your choice correctly, to me it is a no-brainer. Get the treatment free bees! I buy my queens and packages for expansion from southern Texas, and they come to the St. Louis, MO area. Our winters are much harsher than theirs, yet the bees do fine here. 

The hardest thing about going treatment free is surviving the colonies collapsing as you try to go treatment free on your own. The out of area breeder has done the hard work for you, use his bees. And it is a similar harsh climate. Again, seems a no-brainer to me.

Best of luck to you!
Steven


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

I have to agree with JRG13 on this, why would you requeen a package? If you are so sure the package has a dud queen, then why buy that package? And even if it is an unsure package, why not give it a chance to prove itself one way or another?


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