# The practice of selling honey from other opertations under your 'label'



## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Ever hear of Sue Bee? Probably more honey is sold that way than not. I sell most of mine to local beekeepers. They are not eating it, nor are they asking me for my labels.


----------



## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

odfrank said:


> Probably more honey is sold that way than not. I sell most of mine to local beekeepers. They are not eating it, nor are they asking me for my labels.


I retail 10% of my honey, the rest I sell to other beeks also.


----------



## Nature Coast beek (Jun 10, 2012)

Do you ever drink wine? Blending of all sorts or just outright purchase and re-label is common practice across many industries....BUT...it also IMPACTS your brand and how you label. If your operation prides itself on farm fresh, local or any other kind of quality or source claim I'd think it would be difficult to simply buy bulk and label as own. Labeling such as "treatment free", "farm fresh", "local" and "raw" would be hard to do HONESTLY if your buying bulk and reselling. After all, how do you know your source isn't simply doing the same? If you just want to sit in a farmers market and sell honey then buying bulk and being a middle man could work. I'd think the goal would be to fetch a premium price for you products and the only way I know how to do that and be a CONVINCING salesperson is to BELIEVE in your products. When it comes to farm products that means overseeing every facet INCLUDING production.

Just my .02


----------



## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

I sell all my honey to other beekeepers who can't make enough to supply their customers. What potential issues are you worried about Adam?


----------



## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

One emerging issue is DHS. They are starting to track honey back to the source to make sure it is safe for the public. If you cannot maintain the chain of custody, identify where a batch came from, they can do a stop sale and destroy. 
It is the same as every recall you have ever heard about. If you can isolate a problem to a specific lot, which they publish in a notice to the public, you only lose that lot. If you cannot isolate the source you are responsible to dispose of, and I do not mean wash down the drain or feed to the bees, everything.
So far it has been pesticides or chemicals in the honey, or what was in the final jar was not all honey. They do not play around. They pick up the product, destroy the product, and send you a bill with an administrative fee tacked on including the hotel stay and dancing girls. 
It could be as simple as keeping a record of your sources, or labeling the barrels by source, or as complex as batch numbers with the source(s).


----------



## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

I think I might be perfect for this job!
Can I get get a little more information on the rules for billing out the dancing girls?


----------



## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

As long as they serve your meal, even if it is from your lap, it is a travel expense.
I cannot even get an overnight hotel stay or meals for traveling to the limits of Florida. Beekeepers are paying for my trips to Chipley and Wisconsin.


----------



## Adam Foster Collins (Nov 4, 2009)

Michael Palmer said:


> ...What potential issues are you worried about Adam?


I'm not worried about anything personally. But I am surprised beekeepers as a whole don't take more heat from clients and regulators for doing it - and I wouldn't be surprised if the whole thing comes under increasing scrutiny over time (I guess it already is).

The thing is, that beekeepers already enjoy a place of "goodness" in the eyes of the general public. Overall, I think it's safe to say, that while many people are afraid of bees, beekeepers still enjoy a positive stereotype - being "honest and good" in public perception.

But let's face it, honey is food. And people are getting increasingly concerned with where their food is coming from, and the practices of producers. 

I have seen some pretty dirty honey houses over the years, and heard of even dirtier. I've also heard some pretty hair-raising stories of management practices surrounding chemical miticides. 

Now, perhaps more than any time in history, beekeepers are beginning to divide themselves and compete in the honey market based on their degree of 'natural', 'chemical-free', 'organic', etc. Our divisions are having an effect on customer preferences. The general public is becoming interested in our practices as they pertain to the quality of their food. People are beginning to see that not all honeys are created equal. We shout that message, as the industry fights illegal importation from places like China. We scream foul when big producers blend in that 'bad' honey

How do you think the public perception of the good and honest beekeeper would change if the general public was as aware as we all are, of how often honey is sold as the product of a particular person, from a particular area, following particular practices - when in fact it is not at all? Often times, the seller really has no idea what's behind the honey they're selling as their own.

I'm not a honey buyer, and I'm not a honey seller. So at this point, it doesn't affect me much. But I am a professional in the communication business, and I'll tell you this: A positive image in the eyes of the public is invaluable. And when such an image gets tarnished, or people feel betrayed by a stereotype they trust - that image can take a hard fall.

The root of the issue is in falsehood. How much of an issue it is lies in the degree. If a seller is transparent, or really well-aware and confident in the product as being close enough to their own - then great. People are likely going to be cool with that.

But the fact is, there's a whole lot of white lyin' goin' on, and some of it's not so white. It seems to me, that many of us are running a double standard. When it comes to imported honey or big producers, we're screaming that all honey is not equal. But when it comes to smaller businesses filling orders to 'folks' at the market, all of the sudden it's all the same.

Doesn't that seem like a nest of issues to you?

Adam


----------



## Michael B (Feb 6, 2010)

My honey sales this season were the best ever. I averaged over 100 lbs of honey off each over wintered hives. I never had more than a 1000lbs of honey. As fast as I could extract it.................gone.

Most went to wholesale to retailers, followed closely to other beeks for thier repackage, and lastly to mead makers who gladly took 60lb pails by the dozen.


----------



## mac (May 1, 2005)

There's that God almighty dolor thing again. I sell out every year but I'll be danged if I'll put my name on someone else’s honey.


----------



## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

I am a large commercial producer. We take a lot of pride in our product. We sell it to large commercial packers who accept it only when it passes their stringent testing. We don't even attempt to market it ourselves, there just aren't enough hours in the day. That is how the great majority of honey is sold in the US. Is there something wrong with this? There seems to be a recurring theme on here that only the small producer who is marketing honey directly from his or her own hives is truly selling a pure product and that all other honey is just second rate "commercial" honey. I am all for pride in ones products as I am certainly proud of ours but why cast suspicions on others?


----------



## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

When we tested honey off the shelf, one beekeeper had honey (purchased in bulk at a "bee farm" owned by a large migratory operation) that tested 15 and 20‰ beet sugar. The same large migratory operation has honey on the shelf under their own name.....this tested pure.
Of course the smaller beekeeper isn't going to have the honey tested....the large retail chains might, and the packers do.

So, the small beekeeper is essentially starting their relationship with the customer with a lie, doesn't know what they are selling, can't use the excuse that they were lied to or bought in honey that wasn't as advertised, and the migratory operation has a way to dump the stuff that won't test well, and still gets their pure honey on the shelf with their name on it. Who is left to blow the whistle?
In addition, in MA, we are allowed to bottle and sell our own honey without a certified kitchen......not so if you buy in honey. So, another reason not to tell the truth about the source.

Deknow


----------



## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Come on Dean what do the terms "large" or "migratory" have to do with anything. This is a question of ethics. Either you got em or ya don't.


----------



## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

...absolutely. There are certainly plenty of hobbyists and sideliners who's honey is tainted with feed.
As far as I know, there is only one migratory beekeeper with a facility in MA, so it shouldn't be too hard to interpretation my general comments as specific.
Note that what I described has the small beekeeper selling unpurre honey, and the honey sold by the packer in the large chain from the migratory commercial operation was pure.

Deknow


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

If you are going to buy honey to sell under your own label, know your source.


----------



## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

....and know _their source!


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

At some point one runs into beehives. I appreciate Dean's call for caution. At some point, unless you are going to do lab testing, faith and trust come into the equation, don't they?

If one feels the need to, and can afford to, test, there is nothing wrong w/ doing so and it may actually be the responsible thing to do. Trust, but verify.

I don't think we are going to see very many responses to this Thread from folks like Jim Lyon and beekeepers who produce and sell but do not pack the honey they sell. But, like Jim wrote, that is how the majority of the honey gets to market. Someone produces it and sells it to someone who puts it in a jar and sells it or sells it to someone else who puts it in a jar.

What do you have against making a living, mac?


----------



## Adam Foster Collins (Nov 4, 2009)

The root of my question is in falsehood.

I'm wondering about the practice of buying honey as if it were all one and the same, and then selling it as if it were unique. A lot of bigger producers sell "wildflower honey", or "pure, Nova Scotia honey" or whatever, and that seems pretty easy to do without too much in the way of BS. You can buy from a lot of people and package it under a label with those words, and it all works. But if the seller sells honey from another country - then it's a lie. Does it matter?

My question is centered on the degree of untruth. And the degree of untruth.

If I sell "Halifax Honey" from Halifax, Nova Scotia, but then fill orders with honey from Wolfville, Nova Scotia, it's a lie, but not a huge one. It's still "local" to a degree. But if I sell "Halifax Honey produced chemical-free, treatment-free from bees raised in top bar hives", and then I fill orders with BillyBee honey from the grocery store, that's a bigger lie. And if Billybee's honey is 20% beet sugar, it's even worse. 

So what's the acceptable level of untruth?

I raised bees this year in a guy's yard. I focused all summer on splitting and making bees, and in the end I had only three frames of honey, and I told him I'd give him some. Now I'm faced with extracting three frames. What a pain. It would be a simple thing to jar up some of my honey from last year - would he know the difference? No way.

But then I thought of me being him. Would it matter to me then? Of course it would.

So I went through the process of getting those three piddly frames extracted. And when I give him that honey, I'll look him right in the eye and tell him that it's the honey those bees made in his yard. And it'll be true.

Does it matter? Or did I just waste a bunch of time? Is honey all the same, or not?

Making a living is fine. And different industries have differing levels of 'error' or untruth that they will accept. Once the norm becomes untruth, the whole industry is forced by economics to play the same game.

What the buying public does in reaction to the discovery of the untruth varies quite a bit. It just seems like beekeepers already enjoy quite an honest and "good" place in public perception. So why not work to keep it?

Adam


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Set your own standards and do the best you can. What more can you do?

Did you tell your landowner that you would give him honey from the hives you had on his land? Then I think you boxed youirself into having to do what you did. Perhaps next time you will tell your landowners that you keep bees ina number of different locations in the local area and the honey you give them might not come from the hives on their land. I have little doubt that they will be just as pleased. Though exceptions abound.


----------



## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

Adam, this is why the honey we buy in has the beekeepers name on the label in larger type than our own. The label we use for the occasional really clean cutout honey imitate phrase "produced by our own bees" that is on the label for our own hives.

Deknow


----------



## juzzerbee (Apr 17, 2012)

My 2 cents on this is that selling it to others is fine. But when that person puts their own label on it and sells it as their own is where it gets a bit "shady for me. I also know of an individual in my area(non beekeeper) that have actually gotten angry at a beekeeping friend of mine about her prices, and how he wouldn't be able to get a profit for himself selling her honey! Jerk! 

As mentioned before by others it comes down to personal opinions and ethics. Right or wrong is up to the beekeper to decide. 

Me......being a first year beekeeper that had a large harvest of honey would be irritated to find out my honey is being sold by someone else under a different name, who is making money off of me and receiving credit for what my bees did.

When it comes to commercial keepers, that's what they are in the bussiness to do though. MAKE THAT MONEY!

I also feel that if I get my asking price for what I am selling I can't get too irritated. 
Great question by the way. I have discussed it with many people, I am still trying to decide 100% if I think it is right or wrong though. juzzerbee


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

juzzerbee said:


> I also know of an individual in my area(non beekeeper) that have actually gotten angry at a beekeeping friend of mine about her prices, and how he wouldn't be able to get a profit for himself selling her honey! Jerk!
> 
> 
> Me......being a first year beekeeper that had a large harvest of honey would be irritated to find out my honey is being sold by someone else under a different name, who is making money off of me and receiving credit for what my bees did.
> ...



Getting angry w/ someone selling something because one thinks they can't make a profit from selling it isn't just being a JERK it's not being much of a businessperson.

If someone bought your honey at your price and then sold it for more I am glad you came around to realizing that being irritated isn't the way to be. You got what you wanted and the buyer got what they wanted. No one got cheated. It may not be right for that buyer to sell the honey he bought from you as if it came from his hives, but it is his honey now, so how does that hurt you? It doesn't.


----------



## Adam Foster Collins (Nov 4, 2009)

sqkcrk said:


> ...Did you tell your landowner that you would give him honey from the hives you had on his land? Then I think you boxed yourself into having to do what you did. ...


That's my point - what you say, vs what you do. Mark, I'm only "boxed in" if I believe that I need to be true to my word.

I told him I would give him a portion of the honey from those bees. He wants to taste and enjoy the honey and look out his window, and say "this tastey stuff came from MY yard" and he expects that to be true. 

I could have easily given him some other honey, and how would he know the difference? It would have saved me time and effort, and he would have been no less happy. But it would have been false. So to me, I have to give him the honey that actually came from the bees in his yard. 

Turn this to business. What does one tell their customer vs. what does one actually do? Are all honey's equal or aren't they? Do we want discerning honey customers, or don't we? If I tell my customers that this is honey from such-n-such land or such-n-such flower, then how important is it, that it be true?

It all comes down to how far the story is from the reality, and how much that matters to your business.


Adam


----------



## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

IF someone is buying your honey at your price. and then selling it for a profit. Then you are obviously selling your honey at two low of a price. Or they are doing something you have not thought of. As for the angry guy because he can't make a profit. I would look at him and say good. I have my honey priced close to right then. I am not producing honey for someone else to make a profit. I would cherish such feedback no matter what form it took. I woudl probably go out of my way to offer my honey to every other seller just to confirm they could not profit after paying my prices.

If I can sell my honey at $6 a lbs. And sell out. Then that is what every drop is going to sell for. If I had to sell it at markets after being bottled etc. then I might deduct some price for someone wanting 5 gallon buckets at my door. Maybe. The selling each bottle is work and worth something. So it depends on how well that work pays if I am willing to give to someone else. Heck next year I may buying out that other fella. or going around him and buying the honey from beekeepers he has been buying it from. It's called competition. and if you tick me off. I have less remorse for cleaning your plow. But I am not in this to help other folks plow.


----------



## Ramona (Apr 26, 2008)

Daniel Y said:


> IF someone is buying your honey at your price. and then selling it for a profit. Then you are obviously selling your honey at two low of a price. Or they are doing something you have not thought of. As for the angry guy because he can't make a profit. I would look at him and say good. I have my honey priced close to right then. I am not producing honey for someone else to make a profit. I would cherish such feedback no matter what form it took. I woudl probably go out of my way to offer my honey to every other seller just to confirm they could not profit after paying my prices.
> 
> If I can sell my honey at $6 a lbs. And sell out. Then that is what every drop is going to sell for. If I had to sell it at markets after being bottled etc. then I might deduct some price for someone wanting 5 gallon buckets at my door. Maybe. The selling each bottle is work and worth something. So it depends on how well that work pays if I am willing to give to someone else. Heck next year I may buying out that other fella. or going around him and buying the honey from beekeepers he has been buying it from. It's called competition. and if you tick me off. I have less remorse for cleaning your plow. But I am not in this to help other folks plow.


????? You are missing important variables: how much honey a person has produced, what quantities they have for sale, time they have for selling, etc. In many industries, fortunes are made with margins of pennies on the actual goods sold - depending on the interaction of many complex variables. Every business is different in how the variables interact.p

Ramona


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Adam Foster Collins said:


> That's my point - what you say, vs what you do. Mark, I'm only "boxed in" if I believe that I need to be true to my word.
> 
> Turn this to business. What does one tell their customer vs. what does one actually do? Are all honey's equal or aren't they? Do we want discerning honey customers, or don't we? If I tell my customers that this is honey from such-n-such land or such-n-such flower, then how important is it, that it be true?
> 
> Adam


Well Adam, since you are asking these questions I believe if you didn't do what you told your landowner you would lose sleep at not and not feel good about yourself, so, you know the right answer. That's a one on one thing. Do the right thing.

I can't advise you on all the specific questions you ask, only to say what I did before. Set your own standards and live w/ them. If you can live w/ yourself then that is what is most important. Also don't make promises you later find you can't keep or regret the difficulty of doing so. The difference between honey from one location where you live to another cannot be so great as to matter quailty and compositionwise.

I understand asking these questions, but, don't beat yourself up over them.

Sell your own honey and don't pay too much attention to what others do or how they do it.


----------



## Adam Foster Collins (Nov 4, 2009)

Hi Mark,

Don't worry, I'm not beating myself up. At the moment, I'm all about making bees, so I got very little honey. I'm not really focused on honey at all in y own operation here. I didn't ask the question because I have a personal dilemma. I asked it beause I'm aware of the practice and have heard other beekeepers question the practice in conversation.

So I posed the questions here for discussion. I personally am not in a situation where selling honey under my label which someone with different practices produced is a concern.

Adam


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Good.

May bees be w/ you.


----------



## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Really! And I don't really see the point of this thread. There's something wrong if I sell my honey to other beekeepers who can't fill their orders, and they re-sell it with their label? Easy to say when you have a bit of honey to sell.

I made nearly 37 tons of honey this year and nearly 8000 comb honey cuts. Where am I going to sell that crop? Go on the road, under-cut you sideliners and take your customers? I could. Don't want to. Won't. I used to sell my honey to a salad dressing company. They mixed a drop of honey with a bucket of hfcs, claimed the product was made with honey, and there you have it. Is that better?

I would rather sell my beautiful Vermont honey to other beekeepers who can't make enough to fill their orders...and it gets on the shelf for the people to enjoy. Then I can spend all my time with my bees, doing the work I love, and I don't have to go on the road and be a truck driver and salesman, moving jars of honey around the state. 

Nope, I don't figure there's anything wrong with it. And the more time I spend with my queens, the better my apiaries do.




Ramona said:


> ????? You are missing important variables: how much honey a person has produced, what quantities they have for sale, time they have for selling, etc. In many industries, fortunes are made with margins of pennies on the actual goods sold - depending on the interaction of many complex variables. Every business is different in how the variables interact.p
> 
> Ramona


----------



## Ramona (Apr 26, 2008)

Adam Foster Collins said:


> That's my point - what you say, vs what you do. Mark, I'm only "boxed in" if I believe that I need to be true to my word.
> 
> I told him I would give him a portion of the honey from those bees. He wants to taste and enjoy the honey and look out his window, and say "this tastey stuff came from MY yard" and he expects that to be true.
> 
> ...


Adam, have really appreciated your questions and how you have worded them. We do thousands of direct sales at markets and your questions are often our customer's questions. The more educated they are as to food supply and food politics, the more specific the questions are and the more they appreciate very detailed information. Sometimes folks can be mis-educated (frustrating) but we still try our best to speak honestly about our operation and what we (and our producers) are doing.

To some folks, details such as very specific location information (matters of mileage for example) do make a difference. We try our best to speak accurately about what we are offering. I would rather lose a sale (and I do sometimes) than not be honest with a customer. It matters to me also as potential consumer of other folks offerings...I want to be able to ask detailed questions and get honest answers.

Thanks for your posts!

Ramona


----------



## Adam Foster Collins (Nov 4, 2009)

Michael Palmer said:


> Really! And I don't really see the point of this thread. There's something wrong if I sell my honey to other beekeepers who can't fill their orders, and they re-sell it with their label?...
> 
> ... I used to sell my honey to a salad dressing company. They mixed a drop of honey with a bucket of hfcs, claimed the product was made with honey, and there you have it. Is that better?
> 
> ...


I don't see anything wrong with that either. 

The situation you describe with the salad dressing suggest a lie you weren't comfortable with, and you chose to go a different route.

Selling what you consider to be "beautiful honey" to others who resell it? Of course there's nothing wrong with that. You feel you have a good product to sell, and you feel confident that people are well-served when they buy it. You stand by your product, and it's yours. No harm there as far as I can see. Because I don't really see anything false in what you're describing. Why the edge?

And if your resellers are selling "Pure Vermont Honey", I don't see anything wrong with that either. If they're selling it under their label and they know you, your practices and have a good sense of your operation, and it's in keeping with their practices, I don't see anything wrong with that. 

On the other hand, if one of those resellers is saying that the honey in their jar is "100% pure Nova Scotia Honey", or "Pure Organic Honey", or "Honey from Bees raised in Top Bar Hives", then that's where my question is rooted, and that's the point of the thread. At that point, it really doesn't have anything to do with you. 

I wondered what people think of the practice, and what degree of untruth people are generally comfortable with in the industry.

Yes, it's way easier to talk about when there's nothing riding on it. It's easier to set standards when you're not under strain. The strain is where you find out if you meet them or not.


----------



## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

All I will say is if you sell to a packer (someone that is going to buy and resell) you now have entered into being regulated. There should be a paper trail on the source and the source now has to be regulated for producing a food product. I am not in favor of self regulation unless you are selling directly to the consumer at point of sale.

Selling honey too low??? Everything that is sold to a packer or middle man is sold for less then what they get. How could it be otherwise?


----------



## libhart (Apr 22, 2010)

So Adam, it sounds like your issue is not with the reselling, it's with the dishonest labeling that may or may not be happening. I don't think anyone would defend doing that, but nor can we expect beekeepers who produce tons or even excess honey to bottle and sell it all from their doorstep if their local demand cannot get it all sold. If honey is intentionally mislabeled, the fault lies with the labeler, and if a beekeeper found out about it I think ethics would dictate that the beekeeper confront the labeler and stop selling to him/her unless the problem is corrected, but we can't expect everyone to stop selling bulk honey to those who label and sell.

Reminds me of a story from last year's PA state association meeting. The speaker was a cut comb producer, and he said he once sold his product to a company that wanted to export it to Japan. He had no problem with that. They also wanted to label it themselves. Ok. I'm not sure how, but he managed to get ahold of one of the completed packages and the label read something like, "From the Western Slopes of the Rocky Mountains". So clearly that's dishonest labeling, but the beekeeper can't refrain from selling his product to anyone who wants a different label because of that reseller.

I do know where you're coming from though. If you go to a farmer's market and see a stand with nothing but hive products and maybe an observation hive, you expect the jars of honey that are on the table are coming from the hives owned by the stand owner when in fact it may not be. I think this is prevelant with many agricultural products though. I live in an area with lots of farmers markets with lots of stands, and much of the fruit/vegetable produce they sell is simply from cases just like in a grocery store. When it's local, the stand owner is sure to put that on a sign, "local" or "homegrown", but that doesn't mean that the stand owner grew it...even though you'd think so. I'm sure some people do expect this to be true and would be shocked to find out differently, but I'm also sure that's not always the case (maybe the neighbor grew it), the sign just means it's from the area, not necessarily the stand owner's home or farm.


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

One should recognize that not all of ones own assumptions are true. If someone sets up a stand at a Farmer's Mkt w/out any signage at all many will assume that the seller is the grower, by association. I know mkts where some vendors buy everything from someone else and sell it at a mkt where what one sells is supposed to be grown by the seller. Consumers don't seem to care.


----------



## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

...I just don't think things should be deceptive. If yout are giving the impression you are selling something you produced and you didn't produce it, that is deceptive. This kind of deception seems to be baseline business practice in beekeeping. I don't think this is a good practice....of course a beekeeper buying bulk honey from a larger operation would want an honest account of where the honey came from... why don't your customers deserve the same?

Deknow


----------



## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

Saying consumers don't care is meaningless unless the customer knows the facts. A consumer in a restaurant isn't likely to care if someone spits in their food....unless they are aware someone spit in their food...then they will care.

Deknow


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

What I was writting about, about someone not caring had to do w/ folks at a farmers market and folks selling produce. Why someone is allowed to flaunt the rules I don't know. Of course people care about what they eat. If they didn't the Local Food Movement wouldn't be so strong.

But, What do your customers really want? How do you know? Do you do extensive interviews w/ your customers before you allow them to pay you to take some of your honey home w/ them? How far does one go? How big a label does one have to have on their label? How much of an explanation of how one produces their honey? Do I keep video logs of each yard visit and attatch a thumb drive to each jar?

What do customers want to know? My phone number is on my jar. The few times I have had customers call me in the last 20 years of selling honey thru stores across the North Country's 5 Countys, the most often asked questions are "Where can I get some more of your honey?" and "I bought a jar of your RAW honey, is it heated?" Some times I get asked if it is local.

I am not going to presume to know what goes thru a consumers' mind when tyhey choose Squeak Creek Honey over others.


----------



## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

..some apparently go further than others. My customers always know who produced the honey and what their practices are. I discuss it with them (I'm at a market doing this right now), and the label is clear in this regard. My customers pay for this kind of service and detail.
I don't know your customers, but mpay of mine would not like to be mislead about the source.

When we tested honey odd the shelf and found one brand (an organic farm) to be 30% beet sugar, the store owner was reluctant to pull it from the shelf because He didn't want to tell customers that liked the brand that he had had adulterated honey on the shelf for years.


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Tjhat's funny. I would have thought that customers learning that the store owner pulled a product because he found a problem w/ the product would hold the store owner in high regard for doing so. Sure there would be some who would not patronize the store for not knowing earlier, but it would have been worth the lose, imo.

There's the big difference between Stiglitz Honey and Squeak Creek, you sell directly to consumers and mostly I don't. I sell wholesale to stores who sell to the end consumer.


----------



## Nature Coast beek (Jun 10, 2012)

@deknow

I think the point you are trying to drive is one that is well taken and important, BUT, the practice of being a middle man or reselling a bulk good under a private label isn't a nefarious practice as long as the product being sold lives up to the product CLAIMS and LABELING. Sounds like you do a good job educating your customers and building brand loyalty and rapport. If *you* were to start buying in bulk for resale I would see a problem with that. Why? Because *you* have made a CLAIM about that honey in the bottle being sold. Now when the huge commercial operation down the road sells their honey in pails or 55gal drums to a packaging operation, they're probably not making any claims other than what they're selling IS HONEY. Once that product leaves custody he's not responsible for claims and labeling practices there after. Are there producers or middle men diluting product? Probably some are, but you better not make a specific claim unless you know for a fact (remember Oprah and the beef producers?). I also think that if you raise honey industry awareness through interaction with your customers in a responsible manner you will shed light on a common practice of honey being bulk sold ( I think many already know this, Wal-Mart sells under their own label and I don't think many consumers think Wal-Mart has an apiary) under private labels, but that with YOUR honey your customer always knows where it came from. In fact, touring the local farm to see your food being produced is current trend (Community Supported Agriculture, CSA). That's a valid selling feature and benefit that certainly means a lot to many consumers. Again, labeling and claims...not the source are more of the issue at hand. Oh, and that 'local' claim, when people buy YOUR honey the KNOW it's local 

Many farmers markets and local festivals are now starting to make sure that the products sold are indeed PRODUCED by those selling at the market. That is up to the market to make and enforce those rules.


----------



## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

I'm not sure how you can read what I've written here and not realize that we do purchase honey in bulk for resale. We have a certifies and inspected wholesale food production facility so we can do this legally, and the beekeepers name who produced the honey is on the label bigger than our own.

In many states (including our own) it is against the health code to pack purchased honey without a certified wholesale food facility. We are required to report where all of our ingredients and honey comes from. 

We retail honey, but also have some reasonable wholesale accounts at both I dependant stores and chains.

No one expects wall mart or Sue bee to be a beekeeper...but the beekeeper at the farmers market with a sign on their truck and a smoker on the table selling honey with their name on it is relying on the customer thinking they are buying that beekeepers honey. You can do what you want in this regard, but if your customer thinks they are being mislead, they would be correct. The health department issues are less ambitious.....if your state requires a certified facility to pack purchased honey, you are breaking the law whether you tell anyone what you are doing or not.

Deknow


----------



## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

The hardest part of starting our business was getting into markets that wanted only local products produced by the vendor. In many cases we were turned away in favor of another honey vendor pretending they were selling their own honey. That Chinese tallow honey might have been extracted in Massachusetts, but it certainly wasn't produced here.....and certainly not by the farmer who isn't a beekeeper who was selling it.

We have always been honest with customers, stores, and market managers about our sourcing.

Deknow


----------



## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

If the beekeeper feels OK about representing purchased honey as their own, would one expect their source to be more upfront about if they produced the honey or just bought it in?


----------



## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

This is an interesting thread, because I was thinking that since I'm fairly busy, I might approach one of our local fairly large beekeeping outfits to sell surplus honey when we get it. I just don't have time to go to farmer's markets to sell what we get, and if I cannot move it all, I was thinking a local outfit might be the best place. 

Selling it to him at a discount (10-15%) in bulk would seem to be to be a better deal for both of us. I'd get some money without having to package, label, and sell and he'd get honey cheap enough in 5 gal buckets to re-label for sale, etc. I know he sells 5 gal pails anyway, hardly much work for him.

Just a thought, since at my current overwintering rate honey is going to be the exception rather than the rule!

Peter


----------



## mac (May 1, 2005)

sqkcrk said:


> What do you have against making a living, mac?


 Nada. I'm just saying I aint sellen your honey with my name on it. Wally world and other retailers state their honey may come from a lot of other places that's at least honest. I’ll sell your honey with your name cause it isn’t mine. So if a beekeeper can’t produce enough to fill orders what’s the problem with telling the customer this is honey from M Palmer or you. Why the deceit???


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Nothing wrong w/ it at all.


----------



## mac (May 1, 2005)




----------



## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

>Selling it to him at a discount (10-15%) in bulk

Good Luck. The price of bulk honey is usually much lower than a 10-15% discount off retail.


----------



## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

That was just a guess, I'd expect more like 25%, maybe 50, I'd have to approach him and see. There are a number of people around me keeping bees it turns out, and I suspect sell to the guy I was thinking about anyway. I think he labels his "local honey".

Just hypothetical at this point. I can also probably sell to the local breweries who all make a honey something or other and use a 5 gal pail per batch, wouldn't take long to use up any surplus I have.

Peter


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

psfred said:


> Selling it to him at a discount (10-15%) in bulk would seem to be to be a better deal for both of us. I'd get some money without having to package, label, and sell and he'd get honey cheap enough in 5 gal buckets to re-label for sale, etc. I know he sells 5 gal pails anyway, hardly much work for him.
> 
> Peter



The "bulk rate" of honey is around $1.85 to $2.00/lb, so $1.665 to $1.80, or $1.5725 to $1.70 is what you are offering. Is that enough to satisfy you as a honey producer and seller? 

"hardly much work for him"? Maybe, maybe not, depending on how he handles it after getting it from you and how you handle it before he gets it. Are you going to heat and strain the honey and put it in new buckets? If so, I'd pay you $1.75/lb for it, were I buying honey.


----------

