# Fertilization Status of Queens of Secondary Swarm?



## centrarchid (Jun 13, 2014)

For me secondary swarms are not only small, they are also prone to abscond. Many of those are multiple-queen like the one captures yesterday. I am wanting to prevent absconding with a queen excluder but will the surviving queen require to the ability to go out and mate or has she gotten that job completed while the swarm was in flight? Swarm in this instance was up for about 20 minutes. I did not witness any mating balls moving through the swarm.


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

I have read that queens make more than one mating flight. I wasn't aware that they mated during the swarm. I wonder if they mate after they land, if they stay at the landing site for a while.

Alex


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## centrarchid (Jun 13, 2014)

It would be nice to know the sequence of events concerning mating behavior and secondary swarms proceed. The queens of the secondary swarm behave very differently that do those from primary swarms. The secondary swarm queens constantly run about while the others are more sedentary and are harder to spot. A couple of students where able to watch one of the queens run about and even fly a couple times over a 20 minute span as I collected hiving equipment. Queens kept it up even as I starting ushering bees into box.


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## AR Beekeeper (Sep 25, 2008)

Compared to a laying queen all virgin queens are nervous and runny. To my knowledge the virgins that head afterswarms do not mate until after they have established a nest. The best way to hold a swarm in a hive is with a frame of open brood.


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## centrarchid (Jun 13, 2014)

Frame of open brood will be installed shortly. With such swarms, do the workers naturally sit tight when the queen goes out to mate? I have never had the opportunity to observe secondary swarms like I can now.


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## burns375 (Jul 15, 2013)

Also some virgins may squeeze thru an excluder, they can be quick small until they are mated and start laying.


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## centrarchid (Jun 13, 2014)

I was hoping their thorax was big enough to stop them. Maybe the permeability of the queen excluder is due to the queens motivation to get through.


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## centrarchid (Jun 13, 2014)

A frame of eggs was placed in with hive. Within a couple of minutes the swarm covered the introduced frame in the typical manner involving bees following others producing the pheromone trails. We could hear a queen making the "zeet" sound in the mass and found two dead queens immediately below where the ball was located. Three dead queens accounted for so far including one that dropped from ball yesterday. Bees on frame with eggs not forming the polarized orientation typical of the ball where not all are in contact with the egg-laden frame. Change in what bees want to do is very fast. I wonder if sound is used in addition to the pheromones we can easily smell ourselves. Queens certainly employ sounds or at least the vibrations that can be felt through feet.


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## centrarchid (Jun 13, 2014)

I just went out to see workers engaging in orientation flights. I briefly peaked top to see most bees on the egg-laden frame and moving about in a manner typical to my eye of nurse bees. Some smaller clusters away from comb not so behaved but they represent much less than 10% of total.


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## centrarchid (Jun 13, 2014)

Swim still present by dark. While I could watch during the day they bees seemed to oscillate between wanting to leave hive and coming back into it. Has anyone else observed such with newly hived swarms? The oscillating behavior I have seen in other species as they change from one major behavior pattern to another.


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## centrarchid (Jun 13, 2014)

Photograph taken as swarm settled on hitch of fish hauler. Briefly the swarmed appeared to be settling on me.









Closeup of hitch that made harvesting swarm very difficult.









Project involving swarms is supposed to expose students to apiculture and pollinator management. Big guy on right also works for me on an aquaculture research project chasing crappie fry. He could not find any sign of fry but did figure out we had a multiple-queen swarm on our hands. Virgin queens in a swarm are easier to see than 2 week old crappie six feet under water.


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## scituatema (Aug 30, 2014)

I had a 3 secondary swarm from one hive on thr same day last year. Two of the queens started laying eggs after like 3 days. The third one started laying after a week or so.

how come did those two queens started laying eggs in 4 days ?


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## centrarchid (Jun 13, 2014)

I do not quite understand your post. It reads like multiple queens in the swarm survived to begin laying which contrast with what I observed where at least three queens died. I have not yet checked for egg production by the remaining queen but suspect she had not mated by the time the swarm issued. Therefore eggs by here will not be evident for a couple more days at least.


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