# Migratory covers



## hex0rz (Jan 14, 2014)

For you commercial guys, I'm sure you are using migratory covers. But how do you deal with all the other problems?

Thing like Moisture, pests at the bottom entrance like mice.

I'm trying to figure out a cover that i can use, buy, build that helps me address these problems.

I thought about plywood for covers But I'm betting no one does it.

I could use some shims on a migratory cover and go without insulation to address the moisture but letting it drain down a side and also get the ventilation i need As well.

If it were big enough i could use it as an upper entrance too. I like to get multi purpose use from a single thing,you know?

Ever have mouse problems at the lower entrance? Couldn't imagine mouse guarding thousands of hives!


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## NY_BLUES (May 14, 2009)

Most guys that use migratory covers move their bees, usually to a warm climate during the winter, when moisture is a problem. Its not really a problem in warm months. Mice also happen, just make the entrance small enough so that mice have an issue getting into the hives. Usually bees on pallets, where migratory covers are mainly used, have a small shim that rhe bottom box sits on, and most times is small.enough so most mice can't access the hives.
As for upper entrances, a hole in the top box would serve well for that.


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

Im not commercial, but I use plywood covers with no issues. I don't even use cleats, just a flat piece of plywood. If I think they need extra ventilation I just jam a small twig under one corner. In the winter time I lay a 2 in piece of pink foam directly on the plywood and have never seen moisture dripping on the inner cover when I pop the lid to check them.


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## bevy's honeybees (Apr 21, 2011)

I also use plywood on many of my hives. Make sure you don't get too thin--I can't remember the ply I've used, I can check. I put 3 coats of primer paint on top and sides. I seem to have more problems with migratory lids, with moisture and having to glue fill and repaint. No cleats here either. They are cut the size of the hive.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I'm trying to figure out a cover that i can use, buy, build that helps me address these problems.
>I thought about plywood for covers But I'm betting no one does it.

A lot of people make their covers out of plywood. Mostly because pine doesn't come in 16 1/4" widths...
http://www.bushfarms.com/beestopentrance.htm

>I could use some shims on a migratory cover and go without insulation to address the moisture but letting it drain down a side and also get the ventilation i need As well.

Mostly with a top entrance the moisture will go out the top and not condense.

>If it were big enough i could use it as an upper entrance too. I like to get multi purpose use from a single thing,you know?

Yes.

>Ever have mouse problems at the lower entrance? 

Yes.

>Couldn't imagine mouse guarding thousands of hives!

Yes, I can. I have a couple of hundred and I don't.
http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslazy.htm#topentrance


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## beesohappy (Jun 3, 2009)

This year I had a terrible problem with condensation in my hives. My lids are migratory lids with 3/4'' plywood all new material. Most of them warped pretty good along the sides. Know I'm thinking I should run a 3/4'' dado grove in the front and rear bottom side of the plywood.

The moisture was so bad that several of the frame feeders filled up with water.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Plywood can certainly warp, but so can pine boards. I usually deal with it with a stack of bricks to weigh down the corners that stick up. Once it's glued down it stays pretty well.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Use Advantech!


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## beesohappy (Jun 3, 2009)

Is Advantech just waferboard for exterior construction? I've heard of people using mdo or hdo.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

It's a superior particle board that simply refuses to come apart.

http://www.huberwood.com/advantech/products/advantech-flooring


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## Eikel (Mar 12, 2014)

I'm strictly a hobbyist so I have more time for niceties but I add tapered shims on the sides, a swivel entrance and some screening to my top feeders


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## hex0rz (Jan 14, 2014)

Well, now this just muddies up the waters even more! I thought i was going to be able to figure out what i was going to use. But now, this just makes it more difficult.

Mutt long term goal is to get to 500 hives. I don't want to get even to 50 and find out my covers need changed..

The majority of the time my hives will be in a colder climate with fairly wet area.

Who carries this advantech plywood? What does it cost?


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## WilliamsHoneyBees (Feb 17, 2010)

snl said:


> Use Advantech!


Keep in mind ive only been using advantech for a year but I won't use anything else anytime soon. Stays flat, holds paint well and $2.50 a lid. I cut a 2.5 inch x 3/8 notch give or take with a dado blade for ventilation and upper entrance. Foam on top in winter. Im building bottom boards out of it this winter as well. If it lasts 5 years I'll be thrilled but I think itll last much much longer. Easy to cut no assembly required! :thumbsup:


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

hex0rz said:


> Who carries this advantech plywood? What does it cost?


I believe it is Home Depot (not Lowes) that has it for about $20 a sheet .....that's 10 covers. Make sure wherever it is that you buy it that it is spray painted with Advantech on it as some try to pass what they sell as Advantech when it is not...........


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## babybee (Mar 23, 2012)

When I build something bee related I want way more than 5 years out of it. I have never used Advantech, but I can't imagine not using the concrete form plywood that we currently build our lids from. It basically never warps or rots. I would be shocked if most of my lids don't coast to twenty years of use. And that includes wintering in east Texas where it is rather wet climate wise. We have also built 4 frame nuc boxes out of the same plywood, and it works perfect.


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## WilliamsHoneyBees (Feb 17, 2010)

I think advantech will far surpass 5 years. My point is if I get 5 years of service out of a $2.50 lid. It's costing me .50 a year and I'm happy with that. I soaked a piece of advantech in a quart of water for a month and I couldn't break it.


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## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

I was skeptical when Advantec came out as the product it replaced was total junk. I've had a sheet sitting out in the weather for 4 years now and aside from discoloration it is completely unchanged.


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## Sharpbees (Jun 26, 2012)

I first heard of Advantech from Cleo Hogan. I have 2 year old unpainted tops made of it. I also soaked a piece, submerged for 6 months and it didn't even get soft. No warping on my tops and no cleats.


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## georgiabees (Feb 2, 2010)

snl said:


> I believe it is Home Depot (not Lowes) that has it for about $20 a sheet .....that's 10 covers. Make sure wherever it is that you buy it that it is spray painted with Advantech on it as some try to pass what they sell as Advantech when it is not...........


Never seen Advantech at Home Depot only Lowe's
$26 sheet here, Get 10 full tops and 4 Nuc Tops per sheet

Cutting feeder holes is smooth and quick not the ripping chunks like regular plywood
I'm sold on it just concerned about extra weight heaviness but sure won't blow off!!

John Pluta http://GeorgiaBees.blogspot.com Make the most of each and every day


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## canoemaker (Feb 19, 2011)

I had a half sheet of Advantech left over from a job that I just left on the ground outside my shop. About once every year or so I would flip it over. After a decade it was still solid. It's been 16 years now and it's degrading. If it were off the ground and covered with a good coat of primer/paint, I'm sure it would easily last 20 years.


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## hex0rz (Jan 14, 2014)

I called lowes and home depot.neither of them have it. Lowes said they could get it but i would have to buy a whole unit first!

Home depot didn't carry it here. They tried telling me that theirs it'd just as good. I think it was called tru floor.

Regardless, if i can't find these concrete form boards, I'll have to buy real wood...


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

hex0rz said:


> Regardless, if i can't find these concrete form boards, I'll have to buy real wood...


Try here:

http://www.probuild.com/locationDetails?locationId=310


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

babybee said:


> I can't imagine not using the concrete form plywood that we currently build our lids from. It basically never warps or rots. I would be shocked if most of my lids don't coast to twenty years of use.



This is your answer folks. Have had this in my operation since the early 80's. Acquired the first ones used and sure am glad I did. Put my nose onto a product that works very swell. 

Just went to Washington at the turn of the year to get another load. Most lasts at least 15 years. Have some going on over 20. With the new edge coat on the exposed end that we are going to apply on thew new load I'm betting that 85% of this 2015 batch will last 30 years if not more.


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## yousowise (Apr 14, 2011)

Honey-4-All
Are these used concrete forms? Or are they new? If used do you get them straight from the contractors or is there another source? I obviously don't know much about them.
Thanks


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

It's used concrete forms and they are pretty much all we have in use in our operation, both as lids and as pallet mounted bottoms. We selected out the best boards with no rivets for the lids, the flawed boards and those with rivets work nicely as bottoms. Many are over 15 years old and still going strong. It may be overkill but we have painted the exposed edges of the lids after cutting them and in recent years have also been painting the tops of the lids that are weathering and have lost their sheen. It's phenomenal stuff that we bought by the truckload out of Texas for a few years. Would love to find some more.


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

yousowise said:


> Honey-4-All
> Are these used concrete forms? Or are they new? If used do you get them straight from the contractors or is there another source? I obviously don't know much about them.
> Thanks



New.......... Never have used any used stuff.

Originally I purchased the stuff directly from the mill. Worked really well till "big lumber" decided to close the mill or sell it to the other "big lumber"

The last load I sourced through a broker. We ended up buying a load of "seconds" that will be 99% usable from what I can see.

We ended up paying under $40 a sheet for 7 ply paper two sided material (MDO) with most of it having a mahogany layer under the paper. The same sheets in A1 condition would be over 80 bucks on the shelf at the local plywood distributor.

Makes for expensive lids and pallets but if you are into building something once and not replacing it for a very long time its the way to go. 

If anyone knows of anyone looking for 8 frame HDO lids I know a source for about 300 (Not myself BTW) PM and I will pass on the info if your interested.


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## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

hex0rz said:


> For you commercial guys, I'm sure you are using migratory covers. But how do you deal with all the other problems?
> 
> Thing like Moisture, pests at the bottom entrance like mice.
> 
> ...


I make plywood telescoping covers. In addition to paint I put a couple of coats of spar urethane. They have only been in use for a year, but they still look pretty good.


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## mtndewluvr (Oct 28, 2012)

Honey-4-All said:


> The last load I sourced through a broker.


If you are big enough to buy truckload quantities, a broker that I worked for over 25 yrs ago is Matheus Lumber out of Woodinville, WA (matheuslumber.com). We always got the 'heads up' on seconds and were able to get rid of them at great savings to our customers. I just checked online and they are still going strong today as a direct mill supplier.


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## Beregondo (Jun 21, 2011)

I used Aaavantech for a few years and it is very durable.

The disadvantages of it are that is is quite a bit heavier than pine or plywood... weight that might add up to a lot on a flatbed full of hives coming out of almonds.

Years ago, when I was driving semis overweight tickets were hundreds of dollars, I doubt that they are cheaper now.

The otern disadvantage is that they dull saw blades in a hurry.

They sure do slide nice on the saw table though.


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## Sweet to the Soul (Sep 1, 2010)

I am sure not a expert on this subject, but thought I would share the project I just finished today. 

Purchased advantech at my local Carter lumber store.

Made 100 migratory lids and dipped them in 1 to 1 paraffin wax and Microcrystalline wax mix at 250 degrees for 12 min. I am really pleased with the results. The boards did not separate at all and I hope to get many years of life from these. The dipping added more weight for those concerned about truck load limits.

I am considering using the dipped advantech for my pallet material also.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Sweet 2 the Soul.... Got any pics?


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## hex0rz (Jan 14, 2014)

Alright fellas. Try as i might, i called everywhere for wood and only found two carriers of mdo. The first place was expensive. Second place had them for cheaper. If i get 10 covers from one sheet I'll be happy.

I picked up 3sheets of 1/2 inch two side mdo for 47 a piece!

They said they have not ordered mdo in years. Went to check on pricing for more because they had 3sheets of 3/4 mdo but only one was two sided and didn't know if 1sided would be okay. They were 51 a sheet. When heh called for pricing on more they were 80 a sheet for 3/4! 

Is 1 sided okay? What should i use for paint?


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## Smiley (Dec 31, 2010)

hex0rz said:


> Alright fellas. Try as i might, i called everywhere for wood and only found two carriers of mdo. The first place was expensive. Second place had them for cheaper. If i get 10 covers from one sheet I'll be happy.
> 
> I picked up 3sheets of 1/2 inch two side mdo for 47 a piece!
> 
> ...


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## johng (Nov 24, 2009)

You have to cut the sheet of plywood right or you won't get 10 lids. Don't ask me how I know this. Make sure you lay it out before you start cutting. If I remember right you have to cut two cuts across the short side first, this will give you four lids, then with the piece that's left split it length wise, and you can get three lids out of each piece, and the part that's left in the middle will be enough left over for some nuc lids, or it can be ripped into strips to use as the spacer for the top of four way pallets.


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## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

canoemaker said:


> I had a half sheet of Advantech left over from a job that I just left on the ground outside my shop. About once every year or so I would flip it over. After a decade it was still solid. It's been 16 years now and it's degrading. If it were off the ground and covered with a good coat of primer/paint, I'm sure it would easily last 20 years.


I think you've sold me.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

johng said:


> You have to cut the sheet of plywood right or you won't get 10 lids. Don't ask me how I know this.


There's always TB glue!  Been there, done that..........


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## hex0rz (Jan 14, 2014)

Just thought I'd let you guys know, i squeezed out 14lids a sheet! I cut them at 16 wide instead. 42lids for 3sheets!

I'm going to take it a step further even. I have cut off pieces from the 1x12 for making deep boxes. Going to secure them and the perimeter of the lid and I'll have space to set done insulation in. Then I'm going to cover the insulation with a roofing plastic. It's kind of like visqueen. Should keep any chewing temptation down. I'll post some pics when i get them done


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## Ted (Feb 20, 2000)

I have been using a 5/8” birch 5/6 ply, ply wood that is waxed dipped with a rim it does not warp pm me for more info you won’t build another for years


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

Honey-4-All said:


> Makes for expensive lids and pallets but if you are into building something once and not replacing it for a very long time its the way to go.


It sure is discouraging spending time setting up and preparing equipment for the elements only to have it rot out and/or get eaten up by bugs. It seems like wood begins to rot almost instantly here. I used to laugh to myself when I heard stories about Beekeepers boiling pallets in oil, soaking in Cu Nap etc. I'm more likely now to consider extra ordinary measures at least until I figure out where one can find the ever elusive near magical CHEESE BOARD!


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