# First Packages Sold



## reidflys (Jan 14, 2011)

Wow, those look like at least five pounds, those look great!!


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

Thanks. I shook 3.5 to 4 lbs. each. The package dims might be a tad smaller at 8"Hx16"Lx5.5"W than standard. It's incredible how little information is available on package construction. I was kind of winging it based on what little info I could gather having never owned a package myself.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Nordak
Have you decided that doing packages make more sense for you to do then nucs?
Thanks
gww


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

Hey gww,

Yes, for the following reasons:

-I get to keep comb. For me, using primarily TBHs, growing bees is easier than multiplying comb. 

-Packages are one-size-fits-all. Doesn't matter the hive someone uses. That opens up a broad customer base.

-I'd rather lose a screened box than a nuc box with accompanying frames. I have some lang gear and would like to hold on to what I have.

If I continue to sell bees, which I plan to if things keep going this smoothly, I believe this will be my model.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Nordac
Yes, I remember asking in a differrent thread of the profit margine when selling nucs when you add up the cost of the frames and something for them to go into. I remember you saying you were going to try this insted. I am glad you did and that you posted your thoughts. 
Thanks
gww


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

I'd say it's more cost effective if your personal time isn't factored in. Nucs would be much easier to make.


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## AR Beekeeper (Sep 25, 2008)

Have the customer bring his equipment and transfer the bees when they are picked up. Have the nuc extra strong in bees/brood and in a 5 over 5 configuration, take away the queen and the 5 frames of brood/honey, shake in bees from another comb or two. The remaining bees/brood/food will be ready for a queen cell or can be joined with another nuc. There is no reason for the customer to take your equipment.


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

AR Beekeeper said:


> Have the customer bring his equipment and transfer the bees when they are picked up. Have the nuc extra strong in bees/brood and in a 5 over 5 configuration, take away the queen and the 5 frames of brood/honey, shake in bees from another comb or two. The remaining bees/brood/food will be ready for a queen cell or can be joined with another nuc. There is no reason for the customer to take your equipment.


That's a good easy system you have there. Once I get enough gear, I may do both. Good point on the customer bringing his/her own gear. Definitely a "pro" statement in measuring the nuc vs. package debate.


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## funwithbees (Mar 27, 2010)

Try the Bee Bus for a package cage. Inexpensive and quick. beebus.com I think. Save you the time and energy of building one.
Nick
gridleyhollow.com


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Very impressive Nordak. Nice work!


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

funwithbees said:


> Try the Bee Bus for a package cage. Inexpensive and quick. beebus.com I think. Save you the time and energy of building one.
> Nick
> gridleyhollow.com


Yeah, I may give them a try at some point. I looked into pricing for these, and figured up my cost, not counting my time, and for the amount of their packages I could produce my own for considerably cheaper. If I add my time into it, I'd probably have been much better off using the bee bus. Impressively built packaging system. Kudos to the creator. 



Oldtimer said:


> Very impressive Nordak. Nice work!


Thanks OT. Means a lot coming from you.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

:thumbsup:


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

That's just impressive.


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

Hey, thanks David. You guys are making me blush.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Not so. I used to think you were one of them hippy types with some top bars . But turns out you talk less and do more. If a lot of other TF folks followed your lead it could help dispel the issues people complaining about buying commercial packages all the time. 

The other beauty of taking packages at this time, is you can slam hives pretty hard just before they swarm. They have to forget swarming but still have all the brood and bounce back, going on to make a nice crop of honey, sometimes better than if they did not have packages taken off. 

Also, buying straight from a small producer like you I'll bet he got those bees back in primo condition and will be off to a great start.


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

How did you determine how many bees to shake from each hive that you took bees from?


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

And _my_ burning question* is ... 

Did you _make a funnel_ to get bees in through the hole in the package box or buy one or ... ???



*topic of a couple of recent threads


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

Oldtimer said:


> Not so. I used to think you were one of them hippy types with some top bars . But turns out you talk less and do more. If a lot of other TF folks followed your lead it could help dispel the issues people complaining about buying commercial packages all the time.
> 
> Also, buying straight from a small producer like you I'll bet he got those bees back in primo condition and will be off to a great start.


That is officially the greatest compliment I've received in a beekeeping context, or perhaps ever. Mind blown. Thanks, OT.



Brad Bee said:


> How did you determine how many bees to shake from each hive that you took bees from?


I used a digital food scale. Set my funnel and package on it, hit the tare function, then shake, shake, and shake some more.


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> And _my_ burning question* is ...
> 
> Did you _make a funnel_ to get bees in through the hole in the package box or buy one or ... ???
> 
> ...


Hey Rader. Yeah, the funnel wasn't pretty. Let's just say it involved some fan fold insulation and a lot of duct tape.


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## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

:thumbsup:


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## Juhani Lunden (Oct 3, 2013)

Good work and great opictures!

Did you measure the infestation rate of your package bees?

Four years TF is not actually long enough to be sure having some resistance yet. Selling packages, and mites with them, makes your bees chances better in the near future.


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

Hey Juhani,

I did not monitor the mite infestation. I sold the bees as is. I did not make any mite proof claims or resistance claims for that matter. Only the truth I have been TF for 4 seasons and the bees are of feral origin. The buyer is a seasoned beekeeper who is well aware of varroa and the potential issues involved. This was not a blind sale to a newbie beekeeper.


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## Juhani Lunden (Oct 3, 2013)

Nordak said:


> Hey Juhani,
> 
> I did not monitor the mite infestation. I sold the bees as is. I did not make any mite proof claims or resistance claims for that matter. Only the truth I have been TF for 4 seasons and the bees are of feral origin. The buyer is a seasoned beekeeper who is well aware of varroa and the potential issues involved. This was not a blind sale to a newbie beekeeper.


:thumbsup:

(Mite infestation would have been so easy to measure, just for personal use I mean.)


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

Nordak said:


> I used a digital food scale. Set my funnel and package on it, hit the tare function, then shake, shake, and shake some more.


I meant, how did you determine how many bees to remove from each DONOR hive. I'm guessing you didn't shake all the bees from each hive you got bees out of, or maybe you did, relying on the foragers to fly back and cover the brood until it emerges.


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

I shook most of the frames out of 3 very populous hives. This worked out perfectly as two of these had drawn swarm cells and were capped/near capped at the time of shaking. Luckily I had found and nuc'd the queens from these hives when I discovered they were making swarm preps. I can't promise it won't set them back a bit, and I may end up consolidating them by donating some combs to other hives, but there are plentiful bees left in all three. So to answer your question, I guesstimated.


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

> They have to forget swarming but still have all the brood and bounce back, going on to make a nice crop of honey, sometimes better than if they did not have packages taken off.


Just wanted to say Oldtimer, you were dead on. After shaking a couple of packages out of one of my more decent honey producers, I've got a 4' TBH out in the yard PACKED with honey end to end. That's what I call a win/win. Will have to harvest some soon to give the new queen space to lay.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Nordak said:


> That's what I call a win/win.


Yup, win win is a beautiful thing, and you are doing it right .


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