# When should I extract?



## BerkeyDavid (Jan 29, 2004)

Hi Kyle

You can extract now or later at your pleasure, once they are capped they are capped.

I like to extract those first few supers early then get them back on quickly so they can clean them up and refill them. You will have to learn what works in your area and be attentive to the flows. So far this has been a good year for me, I have made one harvest and hope to do another in a few weeks, with the final harvest around labor day. Then with luck they can fill up for the winter on the fall flow.

talk to your locals for an idea on winter stores. But I would think 60 - 70 pounds should be enough for Kentucky.


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## naturebee (Dec 25, 2004)

Kyle Meadows said:


> Hello all,
> I have 2 supers that are nearly full of capped honey.
> I'm wondering if there is a reason to extract them anytime soon, or if I could just leave them on the hive until sometime later.


Hello Kyle!

IF you want the highest yield, you must keep work in front of the bees, and this means extract now. OR pull frames as they become capped and replace with empty comb.

* Bees need many empty cells to place nectar for drying.
* Bees sense when there is empty comb, and this causes more foraging.
* If supers are left full till later, the bees will slow down foraging, and also force them to place more nectar in the broodnest which can potentially restrict the broodnest from expansion (the abundant bees you need come August for fall surplus). 
‘An open broodnest is essential for a good fall harvest’ (Bro, Adam)

“I laid my head to ye tree and there was a humming, and I said there is bees!” (Bee Hunter, 1641)

Joe Waggle ~ Derry, PA ‘Bees Gone Wild Apiaries' 
FeralBeeProject.com 
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/H...neybeeArticles


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## Kyle Meadows (Jul 14, 2006)

Thanks for the replies.
I'll do it sooner rather than later!


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## Grant (Jun 12, 2004)

I'd echo Joe's great advice and reinforce the idea that much of what will work is what works in your area. And further, stay true to your purpose in why you are keeping bees.

For example, I am planning to extract this next week. Our flow ends around the middle of July depending upon the rainfall. From mid-July to the golden rod flow in September there is little of nothing for forage. So the bees mostly hang out and eat honey. If I wait until later to extract, they will have consumed a great deal of this capped honey. So I will want to harvest earlier rather than later, but this depends on my purpose in keeping bees.

My purpose in keeping bees is to first give them every opportunity to excell and prosper, keeping them healthy and productive. This means lots of room in the supers and rigorous swarm prevention. Then my second purpose is to harvest all the honey reasonably possible and utilize the most creative means to market it.

Bottom line: the bees make honey and I make money. We're both happy.

And no one needs to apologize for making money. It's the love of money that's the root of all evils, not money itself and not the honest industry of doing so.

One of my beekeeping buddies accuses me of being in it for the money. I correct him to say I'm looking for the maximum return on the investment of my time and energy. 

His purpose is different (and that's okay, we're still friends). He keeps bees for the fun of it, and maybe harvests 5 gallons between five hives. But then he's always careful about leaving enough honey for winter. He never feeds syrup in the fall. He harvests some honey for himself and a little for his friends. He derives great joy from sitting in a lawn chair watching them work.

I say harvest the honey, sell it and replace it with syrup (and that's another dead horse we can beat in another thread). I've tried to show him how to sell honey for $2.50 a pound net and replace it with sugar that costs 40 cents a pound. But this is my purpose, and not his.

Yes, it's more labor on my part to mix and feed. He also thinks I've turned my bees into slaves. My bees work for me and I also give them every opportunity to excell with their gifts and talents.

So I'll harvest aggressively right after the flow, then feed sugar syrup to keep them going into the fall flow and let them keep that honey for winter.

Interestingly, just twenty miles to the south of us, the flow will really pick up around the 4th of July and run gloriously until Labor Day. I have bees in those locations. So I harvest my southern honey around the 4th, then stack the supers back on and harvest again on Labor Day. Then feed for winter survival. My northern bees produce two supers and my southern bees will easily produce four to five supers in the course of a year. Advice is only as good as your location.

How much to leave them for winter? When I kept bees in Minnesota a long time ago, the standard measure was one FULL brood box of honey, around 90 pounds. Here in southeast Missouri, the rule of thumb is one FULL medium super, or around 30 to 40 pounds. But smaller clusters require smaller quantities of honey, larger ones more honey. Colder winters, interestingly, seem to require less honey, while warmer winters require more (I guess because the cluster moves around more?) 

The old timers around here, weathered by years of experience, lay a queen excluder across the double-deep brood nest and add a whole bunch of supers of drawn comb above the excluder. Then at harvest time (whenever they chose) they take only what is above the excluder in the supers. They leave everything the bees retained in the brood nest for their winter feed needs. They claim they never have to feed, but their harvest is somewhat limited

How much honey to leave or replace with syrup is the million dollar question. I think it still gets back to your purpose and the particulars of your locale. I've learned the hard way (dead outs in the spring) that if you take too much honey and fail to replace it with syrup (or gamble on the chances of a favorable fall flow which doesn't always happen) your bees will die.

Dead bees is a sign of greed and ignorance. It's also bad stewardship. And the best way to learn what works for you in your area is pay close attention to what you do right and closer attention to what you do wrong.

And the bees will generously and somewhat rudely inform you if what you are doing is right and wrong.

And as a P.S., my wife thought my bees were a distraction, especially when i would leave after dinner to chase a swarm call. She called my bees my "hobby on steroids." This was back in the days when my purpose of why I was keeping bees was still being clarified.

Then one year my bees prospered fantastically and from the money generated from the honey sales I booked her a seven-day cruise. She even let me come along. Now every day I drag my tired butt home she wants to know how the bees are doing. She even joins me at the Farmer's markets and will go in my place if I have a conflict of time.

Despite the length of this diatribe, my succinct advice is to persevere and find what works for you, improve that which does not. And don't be cajoled into methods that don't fit your purpose.

Grant
Jackson, MO


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