# Two queen hives for overwintering



## Allen (Oct 5, 2011)

Hi Lauri, looks great.
Looks just like the Nuc boxes we are going to make up.
We just started a single Nuc with mated queen and plan to over-winter them on top of an established hive.
Hope it goes as planned for you. :thumbsup:


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

It looks like a great idea to me but I have a thought for you. In extreme cold winters, maybe the bees won't go thru the excluder to get stores needed for the clusters below. Just a thought. I guess you'll be finding out how it works for you in your location this winter, and keep us posted with the results in spring.


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## Beregondo (Jun 21, 2011)

Lauri: Nice work!

Ray: Regardless of whether or not the workers _will_ migrate up through the excluder as stores are consumed, the queen _can't_, and would be left behind as the cluster moves up. I'm sure Lauri will pull the excluder at the appropriate time.


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

Won't be able to pull the excluder as the box above the excluder is not divided, I think, from the post... and the queens would then be able to get at each other.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

No box above excluder, just a little room to mingle if they want. I have a feeder on the photo above just for fall.
My top screen has about a 3/4" space for pollen patty and top entrance. No possibility of the bees leaving the queen below to freeze or starve. If they run low on stores I would add another divided box with more feed above the cluster. 

So in this configuration, you would see the queen excluder under this type of screen. I fold up a food grade burlap sack with some shavings in it and insulate the space on top between the screen and top cover. Just add an empty super to house the sack.


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## 100 td (Apr 3, 2011)

Lauri said:


> No box above excluder, just a little room to mingle if they want.


So if that's the case, what you are doing is making to nuc hives 3 deep. Seems like a lot of trouble compared to running 2 separate hives 1 or 2 deep? The taller the stack the greater temperature gradient, should be easier to maintain temps in a shallower single hive I expect?


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## merince (Jul 19, 2011)

Hi Lauri:

Awesome work! I used a similar setup to get my nucs built up for wintering. There is only one drawback to this setup - it is a pain to get them separated once you want to move them to new equipment. 

I kept mine just until the queens started laying and then put them into singles. Once you have to move them to new quarters you have to deal with a bunch of bees left on the bottom and the walls and moving them to their new home while trying to keep the quuens with their respective colonies. Not fun. After this year's lesson I think I am going to stick to stand-alone 5 frame nucs or put them straight into singles with a moveable dummy wall to restrict the initial space.

Maria


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

No doubt single nucs are easier to manage and handle. But you get more bang for your buck with 10 frame deeps, no matter how you arrange it. I build all my bottoms divided whether I need them or not and all my 10 frame lids fit any hive. 

I did these last year and yes, they are a pain to inspect or treat, etc when you first start handling them. Two high would be best, but some will have to be three just because they are to big. I have my system for inspecting and it isn't too hard. My cart has a solid surface and I just turn my top screen on end to keep the sides seperate. They rarely boil over.

But for overwintering I love them. Share the warmth, etc. 
Each of these colonies would fill a 10- frame deep, but when they cluster up for winter tend to go to one side and stay there. In the divided narrow hive they can move up or down much easier to feed.


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## AramF (Sep 23, 2010)

100 TD, for winter, you will not be inspecting them all the time, so that's not really a big issue. In this setup, however, the bees have the added benefit of always moving up to eat, so they will not make a mistake of going to a side that they already ate.

Basically the cluster is moving up unobstructed via intraframe highway, rather then doing hurdles over the frames as each one gets depleted off honey.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Lauri, with all your monkey frogging around that you do, how much honey do you get with how many hives? You have the skill for carving wood that others would dream of but I wonder what your yields are for the effort you put in. Should we admire you woodcraft as much as your beekeeping?


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

Acebird said:


> Lauri, with all your monkey frogging around that you do, how much honey do you get with how many hives? You have the skill for carving wood that others would dream of but I wonder what your yields are for the effort you put in. Should we admire you woodcraft as much as your beekeeping?


Lauri is the next person whos postings I'll miss on Beesource.

While I don't know what "monkey frogging" is, I do recognize creativity and craftsmanship when I see it. Lauri has brought an incredible amount of enthusiasm to the forum and has proudly shared her work with us.

Acebird, If you were following Lauri's work at all you would know that she has been building up hive numbers and working on raising queens. I suspect that your honey yield might be comparable to Lauri's. 

Lauri has been kind to you in her postings so you can admire her for that, in addition to her beekeeping and woodcrafting skills.


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## Beregondo (Jun 21, 2011)

There are 3-5 people whom it seems can always be counted on to tell you you are wrong.
I know it isn't literally "always", and that it is just a perception, but [name redacted lest I be perceived of personal attack in violation of rules] seems to be one of them.

Beesource can be a valuable resource, though, and so I continue to participate despite that irritation.

He and [name also redacted] in particlar also often make it unpleasant to to participate here.
Maybe they aren't aware how unpleasant they often are. 
I've spoken with one of them on the phone, and he was very pleasant in when communicating that way.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

She should be proud of her work it is excellent like I have said. Monkey frogging is doing what you like to do with out expecting something in return for you toil. Is there a reason to separate single 10 frame boxes and run them three or four high when that makes it harder to work the bees? I am trying to see the logic. How is that an advantage to running two hives two boxes high? Does it give an advantage when you are trying to raise queens? Is there some other purpose?


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## AramF (Sep 23, 2010)

FYI, Lauri is in the same boat as the Boy named Sue. I believe Lauri is a male version of Laury name, but I am willing to stand corrected.


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## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

Good craftsmanship and nice looking supers. I don't plan to add butons/snaps to mine though!

Members need to think about how their posting may be offensive to others and there is no need for tactless posting of this nature.


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## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

*Monkey frogging is good *

I do what pleases me concerning my bees. They are my hobby, I can afford to keep them without financial gain. I enjoy reading how people do different things. Some ideas work out, some don't. Some equipment or processes work for some but not others. The times that people think outside the box are the times that new things can be (re)discovered and we can all benefit from the risks others have taken. Maybe someday I'll give one of Lauri's queens a try. 

I'm working on a Master's degree in Monkey Frogging (a term I learned from Acebird today). I've flown in between machine gun bullets overseas, driven cars too fast, climbed mountains, cross country skied and many more exciting things......But, since my first hive in 1977, Nothing gives me more of a thrill than working a strong, defensive hive, with all the uproar that entails. When that is done and things are right in the hive, Nothing gives me more peace. Monkey frogging is good


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## danmcm (May 23, 2012)

AramF said:


> FYI, Lauri is in the same boat as the Boy named Sue. I believe Lauri is a male version of Laury name, but I am willing to stand corrected.


You stand corrected she has posted pictures posing with a elk she took bow hunting. 

And Lauri we like you picures, ideas, and follow ups. Like all forums some are just caustic they dont know better. Keep us posted on how the winter I can see that this could keep two queens alive through winter with the same amount of equipment essentially.


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## WesternWilson (Jul 18, 2012)

Cool idea Lauri! And I really like the super adornments. I find my neighbours and guests are much less afraid of the hives, and more enthusiastic about backyard beekeeping if the hives are decorated in some way, and the bees are able to orient better too among otherwise identical housing.


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## brownkenvt (Dec 4, 2012)

I'm planning on building up some nucs using this method next year. Lauri, what's your bottom board look like? I can't quite make it out. Is it screened, perchance?

Ken


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

Lauri...others....I had never heard of it before, but, long live monkey frogging. It is what makes the world go round.

BTW...Very nice work. You have every right to be proud.

cchoganjr


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## Riskybizz (Mar 12, 2010)

I don't know Lauri but I have always enjoyed looking at her picture posts. I would never criticize anyone for experimenting with different setups and seeing what works for them. I'm willing to bet she's not in the house all day baking cookies.


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

My top inner covers and bottom boards are built identically-home made. The inner cover gets a smaller entrance. The bottom gets a little bit larger entrance and legs that will accept a 1/4" to 3/8" piece of plywood

Here is an 8 frame bottom and inner cover:


















And divided cover:









I use 3/4 x3/4" material because it is free. I have no problems with too much bee space, unless I neglect a growing hive badly..like this:










Here is how I am making my tops:


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Riskybizz said:


> I don't know Lauri but I have always enjoyed looking at her picture posts. I would never criticize anyone for experimenting with different setups and seeing what works for them. I'm willing to bet she's not in the house all day baking cookies.


LOL, I actually DID make cookies today. Made a new shortbread recipe. Christmas time ya know. Got to act like a Grandma sometimes.


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## lakebilly (Aug 3, 2009)

not sure, but i think I have as many of Lauri's posts saved as Michael Palmers....keep'em comin Lauri!!


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Thank you Lakebilly. 

I plan to get a good video camera and tripod for 2013 season, maybe a camera man...er, if the old man will help sometimes It would be a lot easier to show folks rather than try to describe to them all the detail and techniques I think are important to my success.

Just trying to do my part to help other beekeepers. Without everyone's input, this forum would not be worth reading. Michael is certainly more experienced than I am, but he is more on the commercial end, running it as a business. I am more in line with people that have the time to be inventive and creative, without the pressure of producing an immediate income. 
Of course I'm sure we both have the same goals in the end. To be efficient and successful in what ever area of beekeeping we specialize in. 
No need to reinvent the wheel, but no need to blindly accept the old ways as the only design or method.

I have had a lifetime of people telling me, "You can't do it that way" 
"Why not?" I ask. 
Because it just isn't done that way, they answer. 
Now if they had a good reason, I would surely listen. I'm all about avoiding mistakes. But their only reason usually is, they can't envision a different way, therefore it must be impossible. I obviously do not think that way

I'll never tell a person what to do with their bees. I don't have the experience to do that.

But I _will _tell you what I did/would do in that situation and perhaps point out some details I think are important.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

Lauri.. Well stated. 

Too often people say their time is worth more than this or that, while I believe the time you spend doing what you enjoy, is far more valuable than the end product.

cchoganjr


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

This method is advocated by a commercial beek in the cold part of Canada who basically winters four frame nucs with a common candy food source I believe. I intended to try it this year myself but didn't. No reason aTALL it won't work well. I find it easier to run my box ends thru the table saw and make a groove for the divider before assembling the box. I also use a router for the same job.


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## doc25 (Mar 9, 2007)

Lauri, do you think there would be any benefit in replacing the divider board with a queen excluder. If one of the queens dies they would be able to cross horizontally, not sure if they would be happy in such close quarters (the queens that is).


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