# 200 topbars OR 200 LRs



## Velinov (Nov 30, 2015)

Hello, I am new here and beekeeper since 2009th. I currently have about 100 Langstrot and about 20 Dadant hives. 
This number is kind of hobby for me, because I spent 2 days weekly at summer and meanwhile I am working my main job.

I have no experience with TBHs, I have read a lot of them past 2 years and I clearly understand how they work but I have no any experience with them.

I am planning to increase significantly the number of hives in order to do this my main job at summer because I love working countryside where the sun and nature are in abundance. 

I have a lands on different places, close to woods, on the fields, in mountains etc. I am able to harvest 4 or 5 types of honey and thats why I separated my bees on groups. I have 4 groups of about 17-38 hives at place, the number of 38 is about golden because I manage to maintain them for about 5-8 hrs so I don't need to come back at the other day.

I was thinking to make investment and build another 100 or even more Langstrot hives in 2 years but I have HUGE concerns and can't decide how to proceed because:

1. Currently selling all the honey to my end clients as retailer and never deal with wholesale because the honey is very cheap (wholesaled) and the investment can't be justified for many years. The only survival model is selling to end client so don't want more extracted honey because I go to wholesale niche. I have already achieved big % of that market and the only way is selling honey by different ways (for example additional product - not extracted honey but honey in comb).
- this can be done with both LR and TBH. 

2. LRs are very expensive and I can't put in the middle of the field because they will be stolen very easy and fast.
- Nobody cares of TBH because nobody knows what kind of hive is this. Also they are very cheap (the bees worth a lot). I will be only worry of eventual vandals attempt suicide.

3. I am unable to maintain them more than 6 times per year, because they will be 2hrs driving away. 
- I have experience with LRs and 6 times of maintenance is absolutely perfect for them in my area. Do you believe I will be able to maintain properly TBHs within just 6 times per year? How many TBHs can be maintained with no rush per day? 

4. I haven't any storage room close to the location where I am planning to place the new hives, I should bring all LR modules and stuff all the way, every time which is madness. I also have no close location where I can extract the honey.
- TBH doesn't need storage for equipment and room to extract honey.

5. If I not invest in LR's I will be able to invest in better equipment for honey extracting, storage etc to help LR's. 
- this will give me even more time because I will extract faster so will not spend days to do that so.

6. The new locations are wild, there is no pollution. The honey and beekeeping products can be certificated BIO and honey will be bit higher in price. TBHs will be easier and faster certificated because I do not use any wax foundations as I do in LRs (which foundations should bought by other BIO apiary and cost double). In TBHs bees builds them by themselves.

So my options are:
- Doing it with TBH and stay cool.
- Doing it with LR with huge investment + building a storage, sell eventually wholesale.
- Not doing anything and continue take care of what I have.

Please note that I have no any experience with TBH, so I need your comment in that point. Please give me your point of view in my situation.

Thank you


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## Slow Drone (Apr 19, 2014)

I think it would be wisest to try a handful of TBHs to see how they do and if you like working them first. It would be best to learn from a handful first rather then 100 TBHs if it doesn't work out you won't lose much with just a handful.


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## Joe Hillmann (Apr 27, 2015)

My understanding of top bar hives or any foundation less hive is you need to check them quite often if for no other reason than to make sure they are drawing the come straight with the top bars. I would be concerned that 6 times a year wouldn't be enough to keep them straight. Of course you can use a top bar hive and also use foundation.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

Here's my advise that may save you a bunch of bees, additional overpriced equipment and a lot of time;

Stick with your Langstroth and Dadant hives.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Top bar hives, if you make them yourself, are cheaper. But they require more frequent interventions as you have a limited space that needs to be more micromanaged. Langstroth hives, in my experience are preferred in an outyard as they require less frequent management. Top bar hives are nice in a backyard where you don't have to drive and if you have the time to spend on more frequent management. I enjoy my top bar hives, but I only have a couple of them going at any given time.


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## dudelt (Mar 18, 2013)

Velinov, I love my top bar hives and strongly encourage anyone to give them a try. However, in your situation, I believe it would be a mistake. When starting them, you will need more time to spend on them than you have. Moving them will be more difficult. Harvesting will be different than what you are used to. As FlowerPlanter said, "Stick with your Langstroth and Dadant hives."


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## b2bnz (Apr 5, 2009)

You could compromise and use long hives, horizontal hives using standard lang frames. Brood box can be expanded as required. Could be used for liquid honey or comb honey and additional supers can be placed on top of long hive if more additional space is required. Too heavy to steal with ease.


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## Joe Hillmann (Apr 27, 2015)

Michael Bush said:


> Top bar hives, if you make them yourself, are cheaper.  But they require more frequent interventions as you have a limited space that needs to be more micromanaged. Langstroth hives, in my experience are preferred in an outyard as they require less frequent management. Top bar hives are nice in a backyard where you don't have to drive and if you have the time to spend on more frequent management. I enjoy my top bar hives, but I only have a couple of them going at any given time.


How often do you think you need to work with your top bar hive to keep everything straight?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>How often do you think you need to work with your top bar hive to keep everything straight?

It's not just keeping everything straight. It's managing the space. In a heavy flow they could fill everything up in a week and you would need to harvest to keep them from swarming. How often would depend on the stage of growth of the hive, if you have drawn comb, how heavy the flow is etc. But there are times you would need to be in them once a week and times you could leave them alone for a month up to several months (winter comes to mind).


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## Cabin (Nov 30, 2014)

Just a first year beek but I would advise a long lang (Russian?) hive. They can be made as cheaply as a top bar yet they can be designed to use the same frames as your current hives. Less spare parts to buy/make and haul to the yard.


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## Velinov (Nov 30, 2015)

Cabin said:


> Just a first year beek but I would advise a long lang (Russian?) hive. They can be made as cheaply as a top bar yet they can be designed to use the same frames as your current hives. Less spare parts to buy/make and haul to the yard.


Yes I know them very well, have 2 of them, they cost same as LRs. The idea sounds good because TBH is almost free (about $15-$20 in my calculations and 70-80$ for empty LR).


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## Velinov (Nov 30, 2015)

Thank you all, I will put 10 of them for test next summer before decide how to proceed.

Have a healthy colonies and a lot of honey! Thanks for your comments!


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I am a little confused by the abreviation "LR". I get the impression you mean "Langstroth" but I don't see where you get the "LR" from that.


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## Jim Brewster (Dec 17, 2014)

Michael Bush said:


> I am a little confused by the abreviation "LR". I get the impression you mean "Langstroth" but I don't see where you get the "LR" from that.


Langst-roth? :scratch:


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## Velinov (Nov 30, 2015)

Michael Bush said:


> I am a little confused by the abreviation "LR". I get the impression you mean "Langstroth" but I don't see where you get the "LR" from that.


I am sorry for that confusion. The hives I am using are known as "Langstroth Rut". I am not sure where that "rut" comes from.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

If it ain't broke...
Don't fix it.

You seem very successful with what you're doing now.


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## Velinov (Nov 30, 2015)

Michael Bush said:


> I am a little confused by the abreviation "LR". I get the impression you mean "Langstroth" but I don't see where you get the "LR" from that.


I was very curious who is Rut, actually the name is Amos I. Root. He have been modified / simplified the Langstroth hive to the hives we know today. The correct for the history name of Langstrot hive is Langstroth Root or shortening LR. There is more info how original Langstroth hive looks like. It's same like Dadan Blat but just smaller. http://www.heartlandscience.org/agrifood/honey.htm

Thank you about that question, I learned something new today.


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

Velinov said:


> I was very curious who is Rut, actually the name is Amos I. Root. He have been modified / simplified the Langstroth hive to the hives we know today. The correct for the history name of Langstrot hive is Langstroth Root or shortening LR. There is more info how original Langstroth hive looks like. It's same like Dadan Blat but just smaller. http://www.heartlandscience.org/agrifood/honey.htm
> 
> Thank you about that question, I learned something new today.


taught me something today as well thanks!


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