# 34 days after split and no eggs.



## subsonic (Jun 29, 2016)

I made my first ever split 34 days ago. I couldn't find the queen so divided it all up equally.
I did the first inspection today, the 'split' I made obviously had the queen, as that is full of capped brood, larvae etc. Lots of pollen coming in.

The other hive I couldn't see any eggs, but I did see a partially ripped / torn open Queen Cell.

How long should I leave it before I consider introducing a frame of brood? The bees seem to be just filling the frames with nectar although I did see a couple of bees with pollen. All my other hives have a lot of pollen coming in, but not this one.

I do struggle to see the eggs to be honest. Should I wait another week or just add a frame of brood now?

Thanks for any help.


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## ToeOfDog (Sep 25, 2013)

After 28 days I would start getting nervous. I expect milk brood at 28. After 32 the panic would start. I am small cell. Add 2 days if large cell. It will be day 33 before you get back into the hive. If you don't have milk brood add a frame of eggs. If you have a queen they will ignore the eggs. If they don't, they have an egg and they will make one.

Has it been cold lately or a lot rain in the past week?


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## Eikel (Mar 12, 2014)

> Should I wait another week or just add a frame of brood now?


Short answer and personal opinion, yes. Seeing eggs on new comb is tough and using the over 50 eyes don't help. Since I don't expect any production out of a walk away split the first year, 5 days isn't going to matter either way and 4-5 day old larvae is easy to see. On the other hand, if you have the resources and want to avoid the extra delay, no harm in adding a frame of young brood. (I'm not concerned about it evolving into a LW until it's queenless for 21-30 days)


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

It never hurts to add a frame of young brood to a split.


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## subsonic (Jun 29, 2016)

Has it been cold lately or a lot rain in the past week?[/QUOTE]

It was great when I made the split but the last week was colder and wet / windy. The weather is back to warm and sunny now.


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## DanielD (Jul 21, 2012)

When you make a split, they can start queen cells that will emerge about 12 days after the split, maybe a couple more. After emerging, the queen could take from 7 days to 2-3 weeks before it starts laying. Worse case could be 4 weeks or better before a queen lays after a split. If you struggle to see eggs, it could be 4-5 more days before you see large enough larva. There's still one last bit of hope you have a laying queen this weekend. I have seen a laying queen 7 days after emerging, to almost 3 weeks. Look for cleaned out areas of cells ready for the queen. But, it doesn't hurt to give them some eggs/larva to see what they do. Sooner you know the better you will know what to do.


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## subsonic (Jun 29, 2016)

I had another look. It seems like the bees are just filling all of the frames with nectar.
I looked in the queenright hive and even in that I cannot see eggs with my glasses on! I have masses of capped brood, drone brood and larvae, I could give a frame of this but I cannot see eggs. If the frame only has curled up larvae in the bottom will that work for raising a new queen? 
The bees are pretty mean at me and there are masses of them in this good hive, so many that I struggle to see the wax of the frame. If I shake them off they get real mad. (I am smoking them).
I guess I am asking can I add a frame with larvae if I can't see eggs, and will that work?


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## DanielD (Jul 21, 2012)

If you have a frame of larva where they get progressively smaller as you go out from the center, you probably have eggs after where the larva seem to stop in the cells towards the ends of the frame. A cell with what looks like just a small smear of creamy wet in the bottom would have real young fresh larva.


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## smokin_trout (May 27, 2014)

*Usually* the queen starts laying towards the center of the frame and works her way to the outside. So, if you see capped brood in the center, larva outside of that and smaller larva and even smaller larva then eggs. So, any stage of a bee should have a younger bee stage to the outside of it. 
Sounds like you may also want to put another super on. 
Hope that helps


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## psm1212 (Feb 9, 2016)

Possibly the best, universal, fix-all advice ever given by a beekeeper:

http://www.bushfarms.com/beespanacea.htm


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## subsonic (Jun 29, 2016)

psm1212 said:


> Possibly the best, universal, fix-all advice ever given by a beekeeper:
> 
> http://www.bushfarms.com/beespanacea.htm


That is very useful thank you. I hadn't seen that. I will give them a frame tomorrow from the big hive (which I have suppered) and have another look to see if I can see eggs. I did see some cells with creamy stuff in the bottom but wasn't sure what it was. I have 4 hives that have queens so I can repeat with a frame from another hive in another week as per that article.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

ToeOfDog said:


> After 28 days I would start getting nervous. I expect milk brood at 28. After 32 the panic would start. I am small cell. Add 2 days if large cell. It will be day 33 before you get back into the hive. If you don't have milk brood add a frame of eggs. If you have a queen they will ignore the eggs. If they don't, they have an egg and they will make one.
> 
> Has it been cold lately or a lot rain in the past week?


28 days? Must be nice to be where queens can always fly. 

My first batch of grafted queens will be right around 37 days from egg to lay if I had to guess.

Fastest I've ever had was 16+eggs on the 8th day. So 24 days. But that was in June when they've got a better chance at getting out. And that's about as quick as it can happen. So milk brood on the 28th day is pretty optimistic.

And how in the world does cell size have ANYTHING to do with when you queen emerges and starts laying...?


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## WillH (Jun 25, 2010)

When you make a split queens are made of 2 day old larva, so queens can emerge in 11 days. They could start laying in 7 days. So it is possible to see eggs 18 days after making a split


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## subsonic (Jun 29, 2016)

Well I got a frame of brood out of my good hive. It was capped all to nearly the bottom but then there were larvae of decreasing size. Even with a magnifying glass I couldn't see eggs, but there were tiny larvae. 
I have stuck that in the hive I suspect to be queenless and will do another in a week and another after that. Hopefully they will make a new queen if they don't have one. The frame I took out of the queenless hive was just capped honey and the rest empty cells. Thanks for all the advice, I'll let you all know how it pans out.


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## DanielD (Jul 21, 2012)

If, as you got to the bottom of the comb, there were some cells that looked empty, then that's where the eggs probably are. If it's not yet a laying worker stage, they would make a queen cell with the first youngest larva they are given. If they don't make cells with this frame but don't have new eggs and larva from a queen, make sure you have eggs or day old larva in the next one, if you add another.


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