# Varroa Mites predator?



## Bill Dickerson (Nov 8, 2008)

I read in an article that the Varroa Mite orginally came from Siberia. Does the mite have any natural predators in the area of origin?


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

I've read that Tropilaelaps will do a pretty good job on the Varroa...and then the bees.


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## Bill Dickerson (Nov 8, 2008)

*cure*

The cure would probably be worse than the disease.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Pseudoscorpions will eat Varroa.


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## Bill Dickerson (Nov 8, 2008)

*tolerate*

Will the honey bee tolerate this fellow?


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

For those who aren't familiar with pseudoscorpions
(like me) here's an info link.

Pseudoscorpion

Interesting little critter........


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Rarely, I see them in my hives. Randy Oliver and I saw one in October when he was here. Very small ones...like the pic of the Book Pseudoscorpion on Sundances post. From what few I've seen here, I would doubt they could hurt bees, or mites.


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## DChap (Oct 19, 2005)

*Pseudoscorpion*

The October 2006 ABJ has an article by Dr. Barry Donovan and Dr. Flora Paul on using the pseudoscorpion for mite control as well as wax moth and SHB.

Blessed Bee
Doug


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## Bill Dickerson (Nov 8, 2008)

*How to provide nesting*

How would someone go about provide nesting for Pseudoscorpions?


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## c10250 (Feb 3, 2009)




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## TwT (Aug 5, 2004)

if they do all of that, why couldn't they also eat young bee larva? I wouldn't put anything in my hives but bee's!


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Will the honey bee tolerate this fellow?

They seem to. I've never put any in my hives but I started finding them now and then a couple of years ago. If you treat for mites you will surely kill them.

As for where Varroa originated, it did not originate in Siberia. That is simply one of the earliest places that European honey bees (Apis mellifera) encountered Varroa as it was originally only on Apis cerana.


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## Bill Dickerson (Nov 8, 2008)

*Varroa*

I Googled "Varroa originated" and found another source saying it came from southeast Asia.

I had googled it before and it said Siberia.

Either way if I understand you correctly it jumped species and spread into managed hives of European Bees.

Why or how does the Apis cerana deal with the mites.


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## DChap (Oct 19, 2005)

*Nesting*

From the afore mentioned article "beehives might need to be modified to provide nooks and crannies secure from the bees as protected refuges and breeding sites. Interior surfaces of roofs, walls, and floorboards could be scoured with saw cuts, and even a frame could be replaced with a specially-designed psuedoscorpion breeding frame."

Blessed Bee
Doug


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Why or how does the Apis cerana deal with the mites. 

They are small cell bees.


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## btr568 (Oct 7, 2007)

also they contantly groom themselves.and they do not use old wax,constantly build new wax


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## Bill Dickerson (Nov 8, 2008)

*ABJ article*

I had trouble finding a copy of the article.

Does anyone have one?

As far as I could tell the archives of the ABJ were not recent enough.


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## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

Those same nooks and crannies that might provide pseudoscorpions hiding places might also provide small hive beetles with places to hide.

I'd be surprised if pseudoscorpions could provide any real control of _Varroa_. Such control would require the pseudoscorpions to be preying in comb where the mites are reproducing, or the pseudoscorpions would have to be actively hunting on bees themselves. No harm in having some pseudoscorpions in your hives (although I associate them with rotting wood, so I'd wonder about what might have attracted them), but I doubt they would provide much control as a primary control method for _Varroa_.


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## USCBeeMan (Feb 7, 2009)

Do these puesoscorpions remind anyone of doodle bugs aka ant lions?


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## Bill Dickerson (Nov 8, 2008)

*In check*

The sources I have found indicates they like beetle larvae also.

I don't think it would be a cure but if it could hold the mites in check I would think it might prevent major damage to the hive.

The Pseudoscorpion has a long life span and produces a large brood (2 to 50) every three weeks.

I'm not sure of the number mites a Pseudoscorpion can eat. Does anyone have any idea?

I would love to see the article.


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## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

Since pseudoscorpions are general predators, I doubt they would stick strictly to _Varroa_ mites. Tough, mobile mite, or soft, juicy bee larva confined to a cell? Whichever would be easiest, I suspect would be the ones eaten most often by pseudoscorpions.


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## Bill Dickerson (Nov 8, 2008)

*Bee*

The sources I found indicate they are tolerated by the bees and don't feed on bee larvae.


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## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

They won't eat bee larvae, but will eat mites? Seems strange. Considering that young bee larvae likely represent greater nutritional resources than do mites, what would prevent the pseudoscorpions from feeding on the largely immobile bee larvae?


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## Bizzybee (Jan 29, 2006)

No idea why some species of animals/insects become specialized in their food sources? But they do. Why does the South American Phorid Flies only prey on fire ants when there are other ant species readily available to them as well? I could only imagine that possibly they gain some substance from the mites that may not be available in the bee larva, even though they may contain more of everything else. What we find palatable and nutritious may not be so to other species.

I don't think it's quite so easy to explain away in that respect............


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## Allen Dick (Jan 10, 2009)

> >Why or how does the Apis cerana deal with the mites.
> 
> They are small cell bees.


Does that enter into it? I don't know, but last I heard the primary and most obvious reason has to do with semiochemicals and the fact that varroa are not attracted to cerana worker larvae. Apparently the scent cues are different between cerana and our honey bees.


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## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

> I don't think it's quite so easy to explain away in that respect............ -Bizzybee


Right. Sort of.

Phorid flies, though, are specialized parasitoids. Same goes for most parasitoids. Parasites, too, tend to be more specialized than predators are.

And pseudoscorpions are "general predators." Not specialized predators. Pseudoscorpions will feed on just about anything that they can. Obviously, if the creature is too big or too fast or chemical repugnant, they might not eat it. Otherwise, they likely will.

And specialized predator-prey relationships tend to form from long associations. Have _Varroa_ really been in North America long enough to form that sort of association? I doubt it.

I'd like to see some evidence that pseudoscorpions will not eat young bee larvae, yet will eat _Varroa_ mites.


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## Bill Dickerson (Nov 8, 2008)

*Dr. Barry Donovan*

I emailed Dr. Donovan and he allowed me to post his response below.

Unfortunately there are no fact-based answers to your questions because so little is known about pseudoscorpions and their possible interactions with varroa, and with honey bee brood. As far as I am aware, nobody has studied how many varroa a pseudo will eat in a day, nor whether honey bee larvae will be eaten. More than a dozen species of pseudos that live right among bees in a colony are known from Africa and India, so numbers of varroa eaten are bound to vary from one species to another.

However because we do know that when put together in a container pseudos will eat varroa, we could make an assumption that a pseudo might eat one varroa a day. So if a hive has say 1000 varroa, and the varroa population doubles about ever 21 days, then 1000 varroa would have to be eaten every 21 days to stop the varroa population increasing. One pseudo in 21 days would eat 21 varroa, so to eat 1000, about 48 pseudos would be needed. Now 48 pseudos isn't vary many, and one would I am sure be hard pushed to even see them in a beehive.


Just a pont - I am now calling pseudos `chelifers', because they are in the Superfamily Cheliferoidea, and `chelifer' has none of the negative connotations of `pseudoSCORPION.

Here in NZ a couple of native species of chelifers occur around the top edges of supers, and we have just won some money - for 6 months only - to study them. In such a short time we are unlikely to make much progress. Also, chelifers from India and Africa which have co-evolved with honey bees are much more likely to be effective predators of varroa, but as far as I know nobody is researching on them.

Sorry I can't help any further at this point. We need a lot more money for research, and enthusiastic young researchers prepared to spend many years obtaining data before your questions can be answered with any degree of certainty. 

Cheers,
Barry.


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## Allen Dick (Jan 10, 2009)

*The Horses' Mouth*

I love it when people go to the horse's mouth. Researchers are glad to share and the information is soooo good. Thanks!


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## BoBn (Jul 7, 2008)

Do you have any idea how small they (pseudoscorpions) are? Eating a 3 day old larvae would be like a cat eating a horse. 

At least in the northeast USA they are very tiny. I played around with them many years ago. I have never have seen any larger than 2 1/2mm and most of them are smaller than female varroa mites. Please lets not introduce some exotic species.


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## Bill Dickerson (Nov 8, 2008)

*New Zealand*

Dr. Donovan is in New Zealand so the Chelifers are the ones local to his area I believe.

He related as soon as he started calling them Chelifers he was granted a six months grant to study them.

I'm not an all green all the time person (nut) but I think the Hives are seen as a pristine vessel operating independently of it's environment.

Nature abhors a vacuum.

It seems the Varroa Mites are the Kudzu of the south and it's taking over.

If we can find a natural predator that would keep the little buggers in check it would be great.

Now if someone could find a solution to the Kudzu issue they would make a lot of money.

There was a guy making alcohol with it and he called it Kudzuhol but with the oil price dropping I think it's a bust.


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## USCBeeMan (Feb 7, 2009)

t:


Bill Dickerson said:


> It seems the Varroa Mites are the Kudzu of the south and it's taking over.
> 
> If we can find a natural predator that would keep the little buggers in check it would be great.
> 
> ...


Cattle - They love Kudzu. Will eat it to the ground. Take them to another field and let it grow back and then bring them back again. Have seen this in SC (my home state).


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## Bill Dickerson (Nov 8, 2008)

*Cows*

My Mom said they would let the cows work on it and then burn it off and then let the cows back on it.

She said it takes about three or four years of this to clear an area. Kudzu has little nodules in the roots like nut grass that will regrow each time it's cleared.

Rumor has it that if you drop a leaf on the ground it will take root.

Now if we could convince people that Kudzuhol is good like Tequila it might become a cash crop. LOL


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## NeilV (Nov 18, 2006)

*Even further off topic*

BTW,

How do you get rid of nut grass. Since I started keeping bees, I've let my lawn go au naturale, but that nutgrass drives me nuts.

Neil


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## Bill Dickerson (Nov 8, 2008)

*Natual*

Hey nut grass is green I ignore it.

I guess round-up if you have to get rid of it.

You can live off the little nuts if you had to.

They taste like coconut.

Look at it as a back up crop when your 401K tanks.


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## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

Don't get me wrong, I think research into the activities of pseudoscorpions (they're in the order Pseudoscorpiones) in bee hives is well worth the time and effort.

But I do expect that the pseudoscorpions in bee hives are feeding on bee eggs and young larvae as well as perhaps some _Varroa_ mites. Maybe more so. I think the opportunities for pseudoscorpions to consume eggs or early instar larvae are much greater than the opportunities for them to feed on _Varroa_. The _Varroa_ that they might eat would most likely be phoretic mites already dislodged from bees, I suspect.

For a brief overview of some of the pseudoscorpions in northern North America, as well as some general information, this Web site is pretty good: http://www.biology.ualberta.ca/bsc/news24_1/pseudoscorpions.htm


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## Bizzybee (Jan 29, 2006)

Good for you Kieck!! Stick your ground, don't let us discourage you!! :thumbsup: Heck, I might even jump the fence and join you :applause:


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## Bill Dickerson (Nov 8, 2008)

*Sacrifice*

I would sacrifice a few brood for something that could keep the Varroa Etc. in check.

They must not care for brood too much or one of the major pests of Honey bees would be the Chelifer. LOL


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## Hambone (Mar 17, 2008)

NeilV said:


> BTW,
> 
> How do you get rid of nut grass. Since I started keeping bees, I've let my lawn go au naturale, but that nutgrass drives me nuts.
> 
> Neil


Image is about the only thing I have seen that works. I have sprayed it with roundup. It did nothing but fertilize it, it seems. I have used 10% vinegar solution and it laughed and kept going strong. 

http://www.amdro.com/Image/Nutsedge/index.html


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## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

Not sure how I'm "sticking my ground," Bizzybee, unless you mean that I'm not willing to reject information on basic natural history of an organism just because I read that someone hopes it might not be accurate in a specific location. Again, I'm not opposed to doing some research on the topic. I just feel that this is likely to be one of those, "If it sounds too good to be true. . ." things.

I haven't seen any pseudoscorpions in bee hives, but I don't doubt they could be there. (Just as a side note, I hesitate to use the term "chelifer" because _Chelifer_ is a specific genus in the family Cheliferidae, within the order Pseudoscorpiones. I cannot confirm that all pseudoscorpions that might be found in bee hives belong to that genus. All pseudoscorpions found in bee hives do belong to the order Pseudoscorpiones, thus making them "pseudoscorpions." Anyone know if all pseudoscorpions that have been found in bee hives belong to one genus, or even a family?)

I suspect that pseudoscorpions will not prove to be very effective predators in bee hives. Again, I'm in favor of doing some research, and if a control measure for _Varroa_ proves to be as simple as increasing numbers of pseudoscorpions, so much the better. Pseudoscorpions are relatively common creatures, though, and if they liked eating _Varroa_ so much, they should be found in huge numbers in most bee hives, given the numbers of mites present in this country. For that matter, if they could/would eat bee larvae and eggs so readily, they should be present in bee hives in large numbers to take advantage of that resource, too. But they don't seem to be all that common in bee hives.

Just a guess on my part -- and this is sheer speculation -- I suspect that worker bees might keep pseudoscorpions to the periphery of the hives, where the pseudoscorpions might feed on some bee eggs or bee larvae and some dislodged phoretic mites and some other small arthropods associated with bee hives. That would be similar to the ways that many inquilines or social parasites operate in ant colonies.


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## Bizzybee (Jan 29, 2006)

Well Kieck, until someone takes the initiative to stock some hives and watch what happens we'll never know.


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## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

Right. Sounds like that might be happening in New Zealand.

Stocking hives with pseudoscorpions might be a challenge. First, raising enough or maintaining enough in captivity to serve as stock might be more difficult than it seems as face value. I don't know. I've never tried keeping any in a rearing program. Then, finding hives where suitable habitat for pseudoscorpions is available might be an issue, too.

I'll be interested to hear what researchers might find on this topic. Pseudoscorpions are poorly understood in general, and research like this might add to the information collected about this group of arthropods.


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## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)




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## Glen H (Aug 17, 2013)

Hey Bernhard,
The video doesn't work.


Glen


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## Randy south MS (Aug 7, 2013)

You know... here in the south they thought that bringing in the alligator was a good idea to help control the beaver...I don't think it worked out too well.....and someone thought that kudzu would help with erosion well it does you cant see it, its totally hidden under the mass of vines that cover everything in sight at a growth rate of a few feet per day......

and now something that would control varroa...... naa I don't think so.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

But with pseudoscorpians all you really have to do is stop killing them with acaracides...


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## Nige.Coll (Aug 18, 2013)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earwig


these eat varroa.

It is important to note whether there are any ants or earwigs present, since these insects eat varroa mites and can falsify the mite count obtained.
(cut from some varroa treatment instruction)


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

_Heterorhabditis indica_ nematodes kill small hive beetle pupa or larva.


> *How do entomopathogenic nematodes kill small hive beetles?*
> 
> When the infective juveniles of entomopathogenic nematodes are applied to the soil surface around bee hives, they start searching for their insect hosts such as larvae (grubs) or pupae of small hive beetles that are already present in the soil. Once larva and/or pupa has been located, the nematode infective juveniles penetrate into the body cavity of larva or pupa vianatural openings such as mouth, anus and spiracles (breathing pores). Infective juveniles of _Heterorhabditis _nematodes can also enter by puncturing the inter-segmental membranes of the host cuticle. Once in the body cavity, infective juveniles of Steinernematid and Heterorhabditid nematodes release symbiotic bacteria, _Xenorhabdus_ spp. and _Photorhabdus_ spp., respectively from their gut in the blood of small hive beetle larva/pupae. In the blood, multiplying nematode-bacterium complex causes septicemia and kill mature larvae and/or pupae of small hive beetles usually within 48 hours after infection. Nematodes feed on multiplying bacteria, mature into adults, reproduce and then emerge as infective juveniles from the small hive beetle larval or pupal cadavers to seek new larvae small hive beetle that are already moved from bee hives in the soil for pupation.
> http://blog.bugsforgrowers.com/natu...s-indica-nematodes-to-kill-small-hive-beetles


While the information above comes from a vendor of the nematodes, other sources also support this idea. Here's one from UC Davis:
http://entomology.ucdavis.edu/files/147986.pdf


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## Glen H (Aug 17, 2013)

Nige.Coll said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earwig
> 
> 
> these eat varroa.
> ...


I have a boat load of Earwigs in my hives.
Where did you see that they eat Varroa?
I did not see it in the link you posted, unless Varroa are one of the Arthropods they eat??


Glen


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## Nige.Coll (Aug 18, 2013)

http://www.bienenwohl.com/eng/fragen.php

that's one place.
they are normally the reason people have low varroa drop as they eat them . very easy to get a false reading so to speak.
not sure how common they are in the usa/canada but they are everywhere in the uk.


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## Glen H (Aug 17, 2013)

Nige.Coll said:


> http://www.bienenwohl.com/eng/fragen.php
> 
> not sure how common they are in the usa/canada but they are everywhere in the uk.


Like I said I have boat loads of them in my hives when I take the roof off and pop the Inner cover/Crown board, that's when I see them.
This is interesting!
Thanks for bringing this up.
Just went to the link and copied the below statement:

"Assessing mite infestation from the hive debris
Number of mites that have dropped by the following morning 


Number of mites
(approximate) 

Infestation level 

Action


5-10 mites Low infestation Observe colony, further monitoring treatment 
10-20 mites Medium to substantial infestation Block treatment 
20-30 or more mites Critical infestation Carry out block treatment. Remove two or three capped brood frames from this colony, and replace with broodless comb. Also feed a 1:1 sugar syrup. 

Note: Varroa mites will be removed by any ants or earwigs present in the hive."

The statement in red in pretty vague. Is that alive Varroa that are removed from the hive or is it the dead ones from the monitoring boards!?!?!? If it's the dead ones from the monitoring board, well that really isn't going to help much.

Glen


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

> they are normally the reason people have low varroa drop as they eat them .

The link cited does indeed say that earwigs eat varroa:



> Most beehives have a slide-in base, mesh floor and varroa floor. If the hive does not have this system, a sheet of white paper can be covered all over with Vaseline or milking balm and pushed under the colony to serve as a sampling tray during the monitoring period. The mites that drop off then adhere to the sampling tray. *It is important to note whether there are any ants or earwigs present, since these insects eat varroa mites and can falsify the mite count obtained.*
> http://www.bienenwohl.com/eng/fragen.php




Pardon me for being skeptical, but I went looking for confirmation from other sources, and found virtually no other sources that suggest that earwigs are varroa predators. Can anyone supply any other references?

Randy Oliver does mention ants carrying varroa away from a "sticky board":



> Cover the sheet with a sticky substance, so any live mites can’t crawl away—petroleum jelly, Crisco®, or proprietary insect trap resin. Pam® and shelf paper are not sticky enough. You can tell that your stickum is strong enough if the mites stay stuck in rows where they dropped from between the frames (although *ants may carry mites away!*).
> 
> http://scientificbeekeeping.com/fighting-varroa-reconnaissance-mite-sampling/


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## Glen H (Aug 17, 2013)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> >
> 
> 
> 
> Pardon me for being skeptical, but I went looking for confirmation from other sources, and found virtually no other sources that suggest that earwigs are varroa predators. Can anyone supply any other references?


I have been looking for two days on the internet and have found nothing that clearly states that earwigs kill Varroa. Removing them from a bottom board, could be just already dead ones!?!?

Glen


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## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)

Chelifer at work. There is a guy on Germany who is working on it. Seems promising with 200+ chelifers per hive. Special habitats in the hive are needed.


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