# Sterilizing old hive tools?



## toekneepea (Jul 7, 2010)

I'm a newbie to be - no bees this year, I've just been saving and buying equipment, as well as reading and doing research for the Spring.

I inherited 2-3 hive tools from my father who used to keep bees back in the '80's - that I'd like to use next year, mostly for sentimental reasons.

BUT, I found out that the reason he gave up keeping bees is that his 3 hives got AFB, and his hives needed to be burned.

Is there a way to sterilize the hive tools? Should I be worried or even bother? They're rusted in places and need a new coat of paint...are there any other steps that I should take?

I did a search, and all of the similar threads are about sterilizing hive bodies, supers, and frames.

Many thanks,
Tony P.


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## danno (Dec 17, 2007)

just hit them with a propane torch


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## toekneepea (Jul 7, 2010)

Thanks Danno!

Tony P.


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

Throw them in boiling water for ten minutes.


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## HVH (Feb 20, 2008)

I just put them in my smoker while it is flaming - it gets the wax and propolis out as well.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Sterilizing is unnecassary. Do you sterilize your knives, forks and spoons between meals? Wash the hive tools w/ hot water and soup.

I use two or three hive tools all of the time in my 500 colonies of bees and never sterilize my hive tools. It's over rated. Learn all you can about AFB from reliable sources. Be not afraid. Be informed.

Oh yeah, for got to say this. Your father's bees didn't get AFB from his hive tool.


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## toekneepea (Jul 7, 2010)

sqkcrk said:


> Oh yeah, for got to say this. Your father's bees didn't get AFB from his hive tool.


Thanks Mark.

I didn't think that the AFB could be transmitted by the hive tools, but I thought it better to ask.

Cheers,
TP


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## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

His first hive may not of got AFB from his hive tool but the chances are very high that the other 2 did. 

Burning a hive tool in a smoker or with a propane torch is a very wise idea once that hive tool has been used in a AFB diseased hive.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Beeslave said:


> His first hive may not of got AFB from his hive tool but the chances are very high that the other 2 did.


I am sorry but, I totally and adamantly disagree. Tell me, beeslave, what does it take to make a hive infected w/ AFB? What amount of spores? What age of larvae? etc?

Besides, isn't "burning" your hive tool excessive? When simply washing it would remove all forms of matter from the surface of the tool? It's not like the spores impregnate the steel or something,

Do you sterilize your hands after working in a bee yard? Or especially after finding an AFB colony? Do you burn your gloves? What about your bee suit? Washing is an adequate precaution against spreading the disease. 

Primary ways of infecting a colony w/ AFB are:
1. Buying it from another beekeeper. In other words, ignorance, misplaced trust, unscrupulous business practices. And old equipment. The spores in the dried down scale vertualy do not die.

2. Robbing. Having an AFB colony in your yard, or a neighbors yard, and another colony robbing the honey from it and then the robbing colony feeding some of that infectious honey to larvae less than 53 hours old regenerates the disease.

3. Self infection. Again, ignorance or not paying proper attention will l;ead one to extract honey from an infected hive and then put those wet supers back on an uninfected hive, thus potentially infecting another hive.

The best defence against AFB is knowledge and precaution, but not fear. Getting AFB should not be the end of your beekeeping vocation.

As Dr. Shimanuki wrote in the 1997 edition of "Honey Bee Pests, Predators, & Diseases", it is even more true today, especially w/ those taking to "the fad" of beekeeping caused by CCD hysteria, "The appearance of numbers of hobby beekeepers in recent years has made it imperative that recognition of bee diseases be taught as a first lesson. Beekeepers must learn to distinguish American fouldbrood disease from other, less important diseases.

American foulbrood is a real threat, and beekeepers maybe tempted to feed oxytetracycline indiscriminantly."

The second best defence against AFB is hygenic behavior in your bees. Buy queens that are known to be naturally resistant to AFB by the hygenic behavior of her offspring.

I'm sure others have their opinions, both of what I have said and of me for saying it. So be it. Which ever it is. Y'all have fun now, hear?


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## Duboisi (Oct 7, 2009)

I think it would be a good idea to treat any used equipment with unknown or unsure history.

I think it's best to use bleach or disinfect in another way before taking it into use.

After the first bleaching - it all depends on your yard.


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## max2 (Dec 24, 2009)

This is an interesting discussion. I read on this forum quite regularly that beekeepers put old combs, cappings and other sticky ( with honey) items out for the bees to clean up. This is illegal here in Australia as it is definitely a way to spread AFB.
I clean ( hot wash or a heat gun) my hive tools after each time I have worked with them but I don't clean them BETWEEN using them from one hive to the next. We maybe should but I guess it is simply not practical.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

I like to take my hive tool with me when I visit family in France... 

I clean it very well with denatured alcohol before packing it. There doesn't seem to be any harm in taking precautions. 

The time required to clean a hive tool is just a fraction of what some (me for example) spend reading postings on Beesouce.


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## Ethfol (Jun 25, 2010)

I just put it on the barbeque. Sorry sqkcrk but I think that for the amount of time that it takes it is a good idea especially with a tool of unknown history. You never know where that hive tool has been and I think that introducing any spores into your colony is not a good idea. And dont you think that it is easier to burn your hive tool than wash it? I find trying to wash off propolis and wax rather difficult. Just my three cents.


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## criscojohn (Sep 11, 2010)

Hi. I just want to give my 2 cents worth. I'm very new to beekeeping so obviously don't know a fraction of what I need to learn. However, from what I understand about microbiology, AFB spores persist for a long time (years), as do all bacterial spores. The spore body is formed to ensure a continuous, future supply of AFB. When conditions are right again, they "hatch" and start producing bacteria again to perpetuate the disease. Frames are burned to destroy infected parts and spores. The inside of boxes are torched to also destroy the spores. Unless your tools are perfectly smooth (on a microscopic level) so the spores can't stick to it, I'd go with flaming them or heat sterilizing them in some way, because you have to assume spores are present. Boiling water often is not adequate to kill spores (actually doesn't get hot enough). Pressurized steam (like in an autoclave) should work pretty well. Problem is, finding a doctor's or dentist's office that would let you borrow their steam autoclave to sterilize your hive tools. Whichever way you decide to go, best of luck in your new beekeeping venture. 
Chris


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Ethfol said:


> Sorry sqkcrk ... I find trying to wash off propolis and wax rather difficult.


No biggie. Whatever floats your boat. I don't know why you are having trouble washing your hive tool. Hot water and detergant work just fine for removing whatever is on it and once washed, what spores could there be there.

Better safe than sorry is a good policy. I just think it is overkill. But if it make you feel better, what the hay, I say.

How come no one is concerned about the temper and brittleness of their steel hive tools from all of this burning in smokers and on BBQs. I have broken hive tools before, that weren't burned in smokers or on BBQs. I would expect that the temper of the steel would be negatively influenced by all of this high heating.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

criscojohn said:


> The inside of boxes are torched to also destroy the spores. Boiling water often is not adequate to kill spores (actually doesn't get hot enough).
> Chris


Scorching of boxes from AFB hives is done so that the insides are chared enuf to be able to remove charcoal. Yes, the burning destroys the spores.

Correct, boiling water will not destroy AFB spores, but washing hive tools will adequately remove any infectious material.

How many of you sterilize your gloves, smokers and bee suits? I'l bet that most of you don't even wash your smoker after using it.

During the 20 years that I worked as an Apiary Inspector I carried hive tools and smokers, a veil and helmet, wash water and buckets and soap. After inspection of each yard, the smoker and hive tools were washed w/ a scrubbing pad, as well as my hands, and the wash water was thrown on the ground.

If AFB were found in the yard, this procedure was done after inspecting that particular hive. I am confident that I never spread AFB to another hive or to another apiary, on my tools or hands.

AFB is a serious disease of honeybees. It is to be treated w/ respect, imo, but not fear.


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## Countryboy (Feb 15, 2009)

_Besides, isn't "burning" your hive tool excessive? When simply washing it would remove all forms of matter from the surface of the tool? It's not like the spores impregnate the steel or something,_

Hive tools often start out painted. How many hive tools have you seen that still had paint on them. The edges of the paint are a good spot to catch and store nasties.

Where are beekeepers supposed to find the soap and water to clean their hive tools with anyways? Most beekeepers carry a jug of water, but soap...not in my truck. Now fire, that's something beekeepers always have handy. Why add any more pieces of equipment to bring? Good beekeepers are trying to streamline and eliminate unnecessary pieces of equipment or tools.

_During the 20 years that I worked as an Apiary Inspector I carried hive tools and smokers, a veil and helmet, wash water and buckets and soap. After inspection of each yard, the smoker and hive tools were washed w/ a scrubbing pad, as well as my hands,_

Our local inspector wants to use your hive tools on your hives. He wears disposable gloves, and washes with bleach water before and after inspecting.


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## Countryboy (Feb 15, 2009)

_How come no one is concerned about the temper and brittleness of their steel hive tools from all of this burning in smokers and on BBQs. I have broken hive tools before, that weren't burned in smokers or on BBQs. I would expect that the temper of the steel would be negatively influenced by all of this high heating. _

What high heating? Smokers and BBQ's are low heat for metallurgical standards.

But if by some chance these hive tools were heated cherry red (or hotter), they would just bend easier.

Brittleness in steel comes from extremely high carbon content. Hive tools are a spring steel, and not a high carbon tool steel. If they were a high carbon steel, they would not flex and they would break if you tried prying boxes apart with them. If they were a high carbon steel, you would have a much more difficult time sharpening your hive tool. You would need to use a whetstone.

The only way I can think of to make a hive tool become brittle through heating is by case hardening. Case hardening involves baking a piece of metal that is packed in a case hardening powder. Case hardening rarely penetrates the outer 0.015 inch of the metal - it just makes the outer part of the metal extremely hard (and brittle).

Heating metal cherry red and letting it cool which softens the metal is known as annealing. To harden steel slightly, you heat it cherry red and then quench it in oil or a different liquid.


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## bbbbeeman (Jan 13, 2007)

If I were an inspector I would do what ever it took tokeep spores from contaminating or spreading, but in my own bee yard I know my hives one time I had a hive that came from a swarm . it looked good and built up nicely then one day I saw brood < capped> with holes in it ,and the smell was bad .I burned the frames boxes and all I trapped the bees in the hive the night before, so I kelled everything and treated all the rest of the hives inthe yard with terramycin,that did it for me I dont like to take chances with afb . but to each his own.I have had bees off and on sence 1959 and have seen beekeepers lose every thing.boy it sad.good luck rock.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Countryboy said:


> washes with bleach water before and after inspecting.


Good for him. But if he washed his hands before leaving the last yard, washing before hand is all for show. Where is he going to pick up the AFB spores from? His steering wheel?

Yesterday, while working w/ a friend of mine, removing honey from hives in two different yards, about 40 hives in each yard, we found that a cpl of hives had AFB. Hive tools and smokers still haven't been washed or sterilized.

CB, how do you clean your hands or gloves and your smoker after working your bees, especially after finding AFB?

Maybe we need a pole on this, not that it really matters and Commercial Beekeepers probably won't answer or will be a minority of answers.


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## Countryboy (Feb 15, 2009)

_Good for him. But if he washed his hands before leaving the last yard, washing before hand is all for show. Where is he going to pick up the AFB spores from? His steering wheel?_

In several years of being an inspector, he has only found one case of foulbrood. Even then, he wasn't completely sure it was foulbrood, so he had to send a sample off to Beltsville to make sure.

_CB, how do you clean your hands or gloves and your smoker after working your bees, especially after finding AFB?_

I've never found foulbrood in any of my hives. I've never even seen a hive that was broken down with foulbrood. I don't know of any local beekeepers who regularly treat for foulbrood. (The state inspector said the closest case of AFB found this year was 3 or 4 counties away.)

Of the few beekeepers I know who have had AFB in the past, (all commercial guys - I don't know of any hobbyists around here who have had AFB) they all treat with terramycin in early spring. I helped a commercial guy some this year, and he runs about 800 hives. Do you think I got to see what AFB looks like? Nope. He did have a couple hives early this spring he said was starting to breakdown with AFB. He said he could smell it, even though you could not see any visible signs. I could not smell anything other than the smell I associate with old combs. 

I clean my hands after working my hives by rinsing with water to remove honey, and by scraping propolis off with a knifeblade. I treat my smoker with a wad of grass in the spout. When I wear gloves, they may or may not be rinsed with water at the end of the day.

_Maybe we need a pole on this, not that it really matters and Commercial Beekeepers probably won't answer or will be a minority of answers. _

Perhaps a better poll would be to see how many beekeepers have actually ever seen an AFB breakdown in real life. (not just in pictures)

My local bee club president and I have been talking about teaching our bee club members how to be inspectors. We want to gather specimens of various bee pests and diseases, so we can teach beekeepers what they need to be aware of. It's one thing to see a pic of AFB, and it's another thing to be able to see and smell it. You sound like AFB is a pretty big problem in your area. Would you mind sending me a frame of AFB (or EFB) for our exhibit? I'll pay shipping. I've talked to a few commercial beekeepers about wanting an AFB specimen, but I'm having difficulty actually finding any AFB. It's not even that beekeepers are not wanting to admit AFB - I helped a guy dig through 800 hives this summer and I didn't get to see any AFB breakdowns.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

So you've never seen a case of AFB and you rinse your hands, but you scorch your hive tool? And advocate sterilizing hives tools? Unless I misunderstood your stance.

AFB is not a big problem in my area. Tha too is parof my position on the disease. Rates of AFB found by Apiary Inspectors are quite low. Yet they talk about "outbreaks" of the disease. And they never will define what an outbreak is. Is it one case or a set of individual cases all occuring in close proximity? No answer is ever provided.

Send you a frame of AFB? I don't know if that would be legal. You should contact Ohio State Dept. of Ag and talk to the State Apiarist or whatever he/she is called.

When I worked Apiary Inspection in Holmes County, OH, one summer, I never saw a case of it either.


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## rocky1 (Jul 19, 2009)

Stuffing the hive tool in the smoker and melting all the wax and propolis off of it has long been a standing bee yard means of sterilizing your hive tool. It's also a great means of creating blisters on the palms of your hands if you're not careful. Since AFB is transmitted by spore, many of which are not affected by soap and water, soap and water, and even bleach, may or may not prove effective.

Toss the hive tools on the wire wheel and clean them up good, then run over them with the propane torch a time or two. When you get done, soak them in bleach for three days and rinse thoroughly before use. Then go shoot your dog and the neighbor's to make sure they don't transmit any spores after snapping at the occasional bee in the yard. If you still get AFB tell everyone none of this crap works!! If you don't get it, you probably wouldn't have to begin with! (o;? 

Personally, I wouldn't worry about it! Yes I have encountered AFB in the hive on numerous occasions. Of course I've been digging in bee hives, in a commercial operation for 40+ years. Never washed my hands afterwards, never washed my smoker afterwards, never burned my hat and veil, shirt, jeans, or coveralls. In most cases simply tossed the hive tool in the smoker, gave it 10 - 12 good puffs then moved on, and never found AFB transferred to another hive through working bees. 

Typically when it is found, you will find 1 or 2 hives scattered in an operation. You can pick them up and burn the whole dam thing, sterilize your hive tool, never wear those clothes in the bee yard again, and shoot your dog too, and next year you are likely to find 1 or 2 again. IF one dies and gets robbed out in the yard, you might find another five there; you might not. 

With today's anti-biotics, vitamin and mineral supplements, more stringent management, and Disease Resistant Bloodlines... you simply don't see it. I honestly couldn't tell you when I last saw a case of AFB, it has been quite awhile since I've seen a case of EFB. I have seen a lot of Chalkbrood and Sac Brood, and assorted other nasties, but not much foul brood! Number one method of prevention in my book... Disease Resistant Bloodlines! 

If your dad had 3 hives, and all died of foulbrood, I'd guess... 

1.) They probably were of the same genetic strain and thus all were susceptible. 
2.) They probably all shared the same 6 or 8 honey supers he had. 
3.) They probably all sat next to each other in the back yard where bees occasionally mingled back and forth between hives. And...
4.) They may well have robbed each other out.

I doubt seriously he transferred anything with a hivetool.


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## rocky1 (Jul 19, 2009)

sqkcrk said:


> Rates of AFB found by Apiary Inspectors are quite low. Yet they talk about "outbreaks" of the disease. And they never will define what an outbreak is. Is it one case or a set of individual cases all occuring in close proximity? No answer is ever provided.



I have seen bees in other operations that were poorly managed, over much time, wherein about 1 in 4 hives in those I was looking at were infected. There you could definitely smell it when you encountered it. Whether transmitted by moving brood, swapping supers, or what I honestly don't know. What I do know is, those folks worked all of their hives with the same hive tool, and if AFB could be transmitted in that manner it would stand to reason that ALL of those hives should have suffered from AFB with that many contributing spores for transmission of the disease. 

Again, at this rate of infection, I would blame a genetically inferior bloodline in these bees.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I agree. If AFB is so much of a problem, why don't we see more of it? And if it is so transferable, why, when found in one hive in a yard, and left, don't we find it in numerous hives in the same yard? It's because of factors of resistance, suceptibility, actual transfer of infectious material, use of medications (tho I don't dose a hive when I see it, I burn it) and other factors that don't redily come to mind at this time.


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## rocky1 (Jul 19, 2009)

If we find a hive that's obviously infected with AFB, we burn them as well... always have. That has always been the prescribed method of prevention, since there was no known treatment. However, preemptive treatment with today's antibiotics, in attempt to prevent chalkbrood, nosema, and other bacterial disease does, I believe, have an impact on AFB. Since we have begun routine treatment for these other issues, AFB has become more or less non-existent. It simply isn't found in our operation. 

As stated though, back in the days that we did see it, it was never an "outbreak" situation. It was always a hive here, a hive there. You picked them up and burned them, and it happened the same way again 6 months or a year later. It appeared in Florida over the winter, it appeared in North Dakota over the summer. It appeared in the heart of our operation where no other bees were close, it appeared on the fringes where we were in the proximity of several other beekeepers bees. It happened out in the open where others could have had access, it happened behind locked gates where I know we were the only ones opening our hives. Where it comes from, why it appears, and why it only affects 1 hive here and 1 hive there, always has, and likely always will remain a mystery.


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## Countryboy (Feb 15, 2009)

_So you've never seen a case of AFB and you rinse your hands, but you scorch your hive tool? And advocate sterilizing hives tools? Unless I misunderstood your stance._

I rinse my hands because honey is sticky and I don't want everything I touch to get sticky. If I was worried about AFB, I would scorch my hive tool before I would start toting around soap and water to scrub it with. Scorching is easier, and in my mind, I think it would sterilize more completely.

_Send you a frame of AFB? I don't know if that would be legal. You should contact Ohio State Dept. of Ag and talk to the State Apiarist or whatever he/she is called._

The State Apiarist was the speaker at our last club meeting. I was completely disgusted with her abysmal knowledge of beekeeping. She is flat out ignorant of beekeeping - her goal as State Apiarist is to try and drum up funding.

She flat out stated that all winter losses are CCD. In fact, every hive that dies is CCD. (That helps her numbers of losses from CCD if she counts all bee losses as CCD.)

She was confused about the chemicals for treating pests and diseases. She advocates terramycin for varroa mites.

She didn't know the difference between nosema apis and nosema ceranae. All she knew was that nosema causes dysentary. (I think she recommended terramycin for nosema too - I can't remember for sure.)

She works every other day in the Apiary Inspection, and every other day she works at OSU in the Entomology department. 

Her incompetence convinced me that I should NEVER give consent for my hives to be inspected by an Apiary Inspector. Someone that clueless has no business anywhere near my hives.

_If AFB is so much of a problem, why don't we see more of it? _

A retired commercial beekeeper commented that AFB seems to go in several year cycles. (possibly decades) AFB is common, and everyone starts treating for it. After a while, folks stop seeing AFB so they stop treating for it. Then all of a sudden, AFB is everywhere again. Many beekeepers just don't have bees long enough to see the cycles.


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