# Winter Wrapping Bee Hive



## Dave Warren (May 14, 2012)

I'm rather new at bee keeping, In Indiana, we have different winter weather pattens, so with that said, I want to protect my investment, and I want to protect them the best I can.
I've read about the tar paper method for insulating the hive in the winter, and the reasons for protecting the bees, I've looked at this product to cover my hive this winter, and want opinions of users here, to tell me if this is
going to work or not?
The product is a thin layer of Aluminum with an air pocket then another layer of Aluminum, it's light weigh, has an R-value of 4.1 that's equal to 4 inches of fiberglass insulation. 
The cool thing I like about this product, is it's thin, and can be wrapped easily around the hive just like the Tar paper.
Will it be too hot for them in the winter months, with this type of insulation?
I only have one hive, so the cost is minimal for this application.

Bonded Logic UltraTouch Water Heater Jacket

Click here to view larger image


Click here to view larger image


Manufacturer: Bonded Logic
Item #: 11085
Availability: Backordered
Retail Price: $32.87
Regular Price: $29.89
Hot Buy Price: $24.00 
Quantity: 

Description
Specs
Reviews
Buying Guides & Videos

Bonded Logic UltraTouch Natural Cotton Radiant Barrier is a light-weight, foil-faced, fire-retardant blanket insulation that may be used in a variety of applications, including as a water heater jacket. A water heater jacket can reduce standby losses from a tank-type water heater. Made from durable natural fibers, UltraTouch contains no fiberglass and does not itch or cause skin irritation, making it easy to install. The pure aluminum barrier reflects radiant heat, with the fibers used to manufacture UltraTouch treated with an EPA registered anti-microbial agent that offers protection from mold, mildew, fungi, as well as fire resistance.

This UltraTouch Water Heater Jacket is 72" long by 48". It has an R-value of 4.1. A roll of pressure sensitive aluminized foil tape is included.

Dimensions: 72" x 48"
R-Value: 4.1
Origin: USA


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

The idea of wrapping hives in the lower 48 isn't about insulation. It's about heat gain from the black 15 lb. felt paper. 

$24 for a 72" roll? Hot buy? Felt (Tar) paper will work better and at less than $1/wrap, why waste your money?


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## julysun (Apr 25, 2012)

R value of 4 is not bad but not equal to 4" of fiberglass, http://www.allwallsystem.com/design/RValueTable. Tar paper has no significant R value, it is a vapor barrier only, I see no reason to wrap hives with it. I would worry that your bubble/foil barrier would not stand up to the weather but other than that it sounds good. Foam board would probably be cheaper and some types have a higher R value. Keep us posted on what you decide.

http://www.lowes.com/Building-Suppl...lated+Sheathing_4294858106_4294937087_&rpp=24


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

the double bubble wrap (one of the names in Canada) is a good product. The only problem with it is to get any R value, it must be compressed. It does help to retain heat on things that create heat...ie my wax melters. It requires less time to heat up and boil the water.
Check out nod apiaries for the hive wraps. Easy to use, durable, long life product


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## stajerc61 (Nov 17, 2009)

It makes me feel good when I go out to the bee yard on a sunny day in January and that 15lb. paper is nice and warm and all my colonies are still humming. I also like the windbreak effect.


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## libhart (Apr 22, 2010)

Michael Palmer said:


> The idea of wrapping hives in the lower 48 isn't about insulation.


That depends what you "wrap" them with. I understand that last winter here in PA wasn't exactly representative of a severe winter, but I surrounded each of my hives with 1" foam board and wrapped that with tar paper. Yes, I know, the insulation keeps out the solar gain, but it keeps in the heat of the hive, and that is the point in which I was interested, increasing the heat retention of the 3/4" board that makes up my boxes. I lost one hive out of 7. One of the surviving 6 was a two-box 5 frame medium nuc. I understand that if you have hundreds of hives this amount of labor isn't really feasible, but I think the insulation really helped me, so I'll be doing it again.


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## Keth Comollo (Nov 4, 2011)

I see the word "cotton" in the description. Field mice will love that!

Tar Paper is cheap. Solar gain and a bit of wind protection.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Previous years I used a roofing product that is over 1/8 thick. I cut sheets the same size as the hive body and used two screws to hang them from the top. Last year I did nothing for a wrap. Two years of experience is nothing but I feel for my area that nothing is adequate except for 2 inches of foam on the top cover. Moisture is more of a problem than the temperature of the hive.

To me the only reason for insulating a hive at my Latitude would be to reduce the amount of stores necessary to winter. I don't think running that risk is worth it. Climate is way to difficult to predict these days.


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## GLOCK (Dec 29, 2009)

I use this stuff and it did well for me last year .
http://www.bbhoneyfarms.com/store/c-58-beehive-winter-packing
I allso use a 1in thick peice of foam board under the tel. cover . Worked great had a 100 percent winter survival rate but it was a realy mild winter here. Don't forget ventilation.


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## julysun (Apr 25, 2012)

Some parts of the northeast average 5 days of sunshine in Jan. That leaves 25 days and 30 nights with no solar gain from tarpaper, in fact tarpaper is as good a radiator as a solar gain instrument. Hey, I don't have the experience or location to be in this discussion, just a smart ass with a pencil. I say insulate and TP ain't that.


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## westernbeekeeper (May 2, 2012)

When I just had a couple hives, I went to home Depot/Lowes, and bought some sheets of foam insulation. This are some pics of how I insulated the hives.


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## seyc (Jul 15, 2012)

Here, we have 300 days without sun a year. I was told to paint my hives a dark color, anything other than black and green (because those colors are hard to spot). We had summer here. It was two weeks in April and a week in May. *goes outside and takes a couple pictures of my hives*

















*huddles in a blanket at the computer* Yea, it is actually supposed to hit 70 degrees today! Once the clouds burn off. . . maybe 4 or 5 pm maybe.

Edited to say: Is there an easy way to make the pictures smaller?


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Looking at your set up I would have both hives on one pallet. The breaking strength of the wood would be greater with two then having one in the center. If the boards should break it is likely the hive will completely roll over but with two they wouldn't.

We usually have weather like you but this year it is reversed.

I would rather link to another photo cite so the size of the picture can remain large for better viewing.


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## julysun (Apr 25, 2012)

SEYC, Nice! Hate the color!  Do you insulate during your 11 1/2 month winter! :lookout:


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## joshk (Mar 31, 2010)

I just use tar paper as well, like michael palmer said, it isn't so much for the r value as it is a wind break and black that allows the hive to gain temperature. One roll will do quite a few hives and cost around $50. If you provide upper entrance for vapor to get out, you probably would not have too much trouble with cold temps. If palmer gets away with tar paper in vermont, I pretty sure it would work in indiana.


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## TWall (May 19, 2010)

Part of deciding what do is understanding what goes on inside the hive during winter. Bees don't heat the inside of the hive, they just keep the cluster warm. 

Roofing felt helps with solar gain on warm sunny days allowing the bees to break the cluster and move to stores sooner.

When you inculde nucs I'm sure Michael Palmer overwinters well over 1000 colonies each year in Vermont. He's a non-migratory commercial beekeeper. Kind of like the old EF Hutton commercials. When he talks it is worth listening to.

Tom


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

I like the stuff from B&B Honey too. I would like the bee cozy from NOD better but by the time you get them shipped they are prohibitively expensive IMO. If you only have one or two hives and no plans for more, they are perfect. I put a piece of brown soundproofing felt on top of the hive body or over a feeder rim with a 2" piece of epe obove that. Works like a charm. I can pop the lid from the epe up to add shgar bricks if needed in almost any weather. In our kinda winter, I often had three to five pounds of bees clustered there on the top bars and hanging off the soundproofing board. I staple the insulation wrap product on and have a hole cut for the ventilation hole in the upper hive body. It may not work this year, but it sure worked well last.


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

If I wrap, it's with inexpensive tar paper. Last winter was so mild that I didn't get around to wrapping or even closing up most of the screen bottom boards. Of course, it hardly even touched minus 20 degrees at all. Most winters it's down to perhaps 25 to 30 below here and I suppose if it ever gets really cold here in Maine, I might think about insulating. 

My experience is that providing insulation might make me all warm and fuzzy but the bees do not need it. What the bees need in winter is ventilation, not insulation.

Wayne


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## BeekeepingIsGood (Aug 12, 2012)

"The kind of wrap that you should use depends on where you live. Solar wraps increase colony productivity in some places with fairly mild winters. A study from Israel, for example, demonstrated that colonies that were enclosed in a black plastic tent achieved brood rearing temperatures a month earlier than colonies painted white, and as a consequence, were able to double the production during the first honey flow in March (Fig. 8). More traditional solar wraps also perform well in relatively colder climates. The best way to winter colonies in Minnesota, for example, is as triple brood nests with solar wraps (tar paper) rather than the insulated double brood nest 4-packs"


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## Bwar77 (Jun 18, 2012)

Maybe off topic a bit, but what is purpose of putting foam board/insulation under top cover (above inner cover,right?)? I bought a retired beekeepers collection and it came with a few foam boards, just didnt recall the purpose or location he told me - can only retain so much!


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## dirt road (Jan 4, 2011)

Local fellow had a late swarm show up at his place last fall, and settled in a lilac bush. Having no experience or equipment whatever, he read enough that he decided to open feed them close to 75 pounds of sugar before winter set in. Last winter was a mild one for us, only dropping to minus 10 once, and only getting below zero less than a dozen times. We also did not get as many of the unholy bitter strong winds that are usual during our winter. His bees survived the winter, hanging right out in the open in the leafless lilac bush. He hived them this spring, and they did a good job for him over the summer. Proves just how tough they are.
In spite of that, I'm thinking about wrapping my one hive with something for the winter.


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## Cedar Hill (Jan 27, 2009)

Bwar77 said:


> Maybe off topic a bit, but what is purpose of putting foam board/insulation under top cover (above inner cover,right?)?


 Have you ever noticed that when there is a thick layer of snow on the tops of your hives, that the center of that layer of snow is all melted down to the very cover forming a circle approximately the size of the cluster? I put a two inch foam board on top of my covers before I loosely wrap them in felt tarpaper. Bees don't heat the sides but their heat does rise to the top. No need to put the foam boards on the inside, they'll just cause a problem (bees chew at the foam) OMTCW


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Bwar77 said:


> Maybe off topic a bit, but what is purpose of putting foam board/insulation under top cover (above inner cover,right?)? I bought a retired beekeepers collection and it came with a few foam boards, just didnt recall the purpose or location he told me - can only retain so much!


I put my foam insulation on top of the outer cover. The R value is the same no matter where you put it.


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## juzzerbee (Apr 17, 2012)

My guess would be to keep the warm rising air, down, versus allowing it to escape through the "roof" like a house. juzzerbee


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Acebird said:


> The R value is the same no matter where you put it.


So if you put styrofoam on your roof, it's as good as right behind the sheetrock?

The foam should go on top of the inner cover, not the outer cover.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Michael Palmer said:


> So if you put styrofoam on your roof, it's as good as right behind the sheetrock?
> 
> The foam should go on top of the inner cover, not the outer cover.


Have it your way but it makes no difference.


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## MES613 (Nov 19, 2010)

Acebird said:


> Have it your way but it makes no difference.


Blows off less if its under the cover, no?:scratch:


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## sweetas (Apr 16, 2012)

Brother Adam of Buckfast Abbey (the source of Buckfast bees) said they experimented with wrapping hives for five years. Said the bees used less stores but were less productive in the summer. The Bees were kept on Dartmoor, one of the colder places in England and windswept.

It is the moisture that does the most damage,

My two cents worth.

Geoff


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## Detroit Bees (Sep 13, 2012)

It seems based on these replies that the bees can handle darn near any temperature provided they have enough food. Is that correct?

Last winter, which was very mild for Detroit, my first year bees stayed in their hive with only a foam board on the bottom to keep the wind out of the screen. They are in a regular wooden hive, no wrap or other insulation. 

If the only issue is whether they eat too much and run out of grub, is it better to just leave them a little more at harvest time?


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## Andrew Dewey (Aug 23, 2005)

Detroit Bees said:


> If the only issue is whether they eat too much and run out of grub, is it better to just leave them a little more at harvest time?


Absolutely. As an alternative you can feed them heavy syrup in the fall to get them up to your desired weight for overwintering. My opinion is that beekeepers who rely on leaving sugar on the hive supposedly as method of dealing with moisture, have failed to adequately provide their hives with enough stores to make it through winter. Again IMHO people who plan for emergencies get them.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

MES613 said:


> Blows off less if its under the cover, no?:scratch:


Yes, I put a rock or heavy object on it until the snow flies. Cut the foam a half inch smaller than the size of the telescoping cover and the air can't get underneath it. It won't blow off.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Detroit Bees said:


> It seems based on these replies that the bees can handle darn near any temperature provided they have enough food. Is that correct?


Yes, but the reason I use insulation is to cut down on the condensation on the inner cover. It is not to conserve honey.


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## Detroit Bees (Sep 13, 2012)

Acebird said:


> Yes, but the reason I use insulation is to cut down on the condensation on the inner cover. It is not to conserve honey.


So you use the insulation to absorb the moisture rather than conserve the heat? Won't the moisture evaporate through the vent hole in the inner cover to the outside?


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## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

Moisture condenses on a cold surface. Hence, insulation above the inner cover is warmer on the inside hive side and moisture will not condense above the cluster and drip on it. An absorbing materal on the under side of the foam is better yet. It will absorb moisture and not drip. 

Wood inner cover absorbs moisture. And moisture does not readily condense above warm air rising through hole in the inner cover.

Suspended ceiling board works well, burlap, leaves, etc. all absorb moisture and prevent dripping.


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## juzzerbee (Apr 17, 2012)

I asked a similar question in a different thread. I was told to also tape the hole in the inner cover up so bees do not crawl through and chew the foam over winter. It is also neccessary to have the notch, down, in the inner cover so the bees are able to fly out and for ventilation if a beekeeper chooses to go this route. juzzerbee


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## julysun (Apr 25, 2012)

Duplicated earlier post


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Detroit Bees said:


> So you use the insulation to absorb the moisture rather than conserve the heat?


Ah, no it is foam insulation. It cannot absorb moisture and it is on the outside of the hive but it does let the moisture go out the vent hole without condensing or freezing on the inner cover which is worse. Condensation is one thing but when it freezes on the inner cover it eventually melts and that becomes a cold bath that ends the hive in the spring after it made it through the worst of the winter.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

Acebird said:


> I put my foam insulation on top of the outer cover. The R value is the same no matter where you put it.


If the insulting material is sitting on a cold, sheet metal surface, with a film of water between the foam and top, I would clearly expect it to be less effective than a material placed directly over the inner cover.

Trapping water on top of a migratory cover wouldn't be better imo.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Talk to someone that understands thermo dynamics. Maybe they can explain better how a blanket of snow can insulate a two foot sheet of ice on a lake.
Hey if you want to put your foam on the inside, knock yourself out. Your winters are so mild in Fairfield County it is almost silly to do anything to your hives in the winter.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

duplicate post, please delete.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

Acebird said:


> Talk to someone that understands thermo dynamics. Maybe they can explain better how a blanket of snow can insulate a two foot sheet of ice on a lake.
> Hey if you want to put your foam on the inside, knock yourself out. Your winters are so mild in Fairfield County it is almost silly to do anything to your hives in the winter.


You're funny!


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## blueribboncookies (Jun 5, 2011)

hi! came here looking to see if we were winterizing correctly. seems like we're on track. for new beekeepers, here's a link to a picasa album i uploaded so you can see step-by-step how we winterize a hive in the middle midwest (iowa). (haven't done a web album before so i hope this works!)
https://picasaweb.google.com/117002...authkey=Gv1sRgCIqp17mE2570qQE&feat=directlink


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

Nice, that's basically how I did it too. I put 4" of foam instead of two, but didn't wrap over the top with the tar paper. Lots of bees out as soon as the sun hit the hive even though it was only 10 deg C.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

Acebird said:


> Maybe they can explain better how a blanket of snow can insulate a two foot sheet of ice on a lake.


I will explain as much as I know.

First insulation keeps heat out as well as it keeps it in. keeping ice frozen would be the result of keeping heat out.

Second is an understanding of how insulation works. there are several ways but the most common and the one that applies to snow. Air is a poor conductor of heat or in other words a good insulator. Btu it has to be unable to move. most insulation such as foam. fiberglass batting etc are simply trapping air in pockets. that is how they insulate. snow has a lot of air trapped in it.

In order for any insulation to help a hive stay warm. the hive has to get warm first. Otherwise it will help the hive stay cold.


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## westernbeekeeper (May 2, 2012)

Wow, nice pics. Thanks for the link.


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

Daniel Y said:


> I will explain as much as I know.
> 
> First insulation keeps heat out as well as it keeps it in. keeping ice frozen would be the result of keeping heat out.
> 
> ...


The bees supply the heat, that and regular daytime highs. The snow would help that heat hold through the night. The snow also provides a wind break which is probably more important. We have an annual snowfall of 7-8feet. The tender plants in the garden (roses for example) that stay covered in snow all winter are nice and green in the spring. Anything exposed above the snow freezes and dies.

To answer the lake question, it is as much about the snow being white as it is its insulation capacity. White snow reflects more sunlight than ice which is usually dark blue/green slowing the melting process. Water is even darker. That's why when the ice goes in the spring it happens exponentially on a sunny day. The larger the area of exposed water, the greater the heat it absorbs, the faster the ice recedes and exposes even more water, repeat.


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## VickyLynn (Jun 20, 2011)

re: wrapping your hive like a package. When February comes and you want to add pollen patties or fondant to feed, it looks like it would be difficult to unwrap to open the hive up enough to get the food onto the inner cover. What do you do in that case?


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## blueribboncookies (Jun 5, 2011)

VickyLynn said:


> re: wrapping your hive like a package. When February comes and you want to add pollen patties or fondant to feed, it looks like it would be difficult to unwrap to open the hive up enough to get the food onto the inner cover. What do you do in that case?


we're still pretty new at this, so maybe a more seasoned beekeeper can offer advice here. we haven't had experience with solid food, only sugar solution. if we do feed, we don't do so until we "unwrap" them in late winter/early spring (or the temperatures are more regularly above freezing). for solid food: if you use the "wrap like a package" winterizing method, it's not difficult to lift the outer lid, open the tar paper, remove the insulation square and place the food ... then put it all back.


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## sweetas (Apr 16, 2012)

Fortunately in Perth Western Australia we don't need to wrap our hives. . 5 degrees C is a cold night with a few frosts on rare occasions. I do read with interest the additional problems posed by your climate and pests.

Just curious, what does it cost to wrap the hives in tar paper and can it be reused. Tar paper is not a common product here.

Geoff


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## blueribboncookies (Jun 5, 2011)

cost for supplies: maybe $1 or $2 USD per hive ... at the most. get your supplies off craigslist (classifieds), and it's even less. yes, fold it all up real nice and neat and it's reusable for YEARS.

you might have tar paper there, just called something else. this is the thick, black, kraft-like, waterproof paper that is used on a roof before the shingles are installed.


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## julysun (Apr 25, 2012)

http://beeinformed.org/2012/08/winter-preparation-national-management-survey-2010-2011/

Go to the above link for survey results on winter prep. of hives.
The only thing that had a significant effect was providing a top entry. 
Thanks to Soloman Parker for leading me to this information. :applause:


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

julysun said:


> http://beeinformed.org/2012/08/winter-preparation-national-management-survey-2010-2011/
> 
> Go to the above link for survey results on winter prep. of hives.
> The only thing that had a significant effect was providing a top entry.
> Thanks to Soloman Parker for leading me to this information. :applause:


Not entirely true. "Preparing" in general had a positive effect in the North:

http://beeinformed.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Winter-prep-by-region.pdf


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## sweetas (Apr 16, 2012)

Thank Blue ribbon

I know what it is and what it is generally used for in the US. Its not used in Australia for roofing as far as I know. The roofing here is clay or cement tiles, or colour-bond corrugated metal. I was wondering what the cost and effort was.

Geoff


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## Dave Warren (May 14, 2012)

well we will see what happens in the spring.
I purchased a Walter Kelly top.https://kelleybees.com/Images/Products/49Ajpg
https://kelleybees.com/Images/Products/Thumbs/12-VS.jpg
I have four inch styro-foam insulation taped to the outside of the hive on the top cover to provide less heat loss, or gains.


Wrapped with the foil insulation, my theory is for the moisture to leave through the vented supers, which are located in the top, loosely wrap the hive with the bubble wrap, any moisture with escape through the vent holes to the outside of the hive.
I taped the insulation with aluminum type.
I also purchased a laser thermometer so I can tell temps inside the hive when I need to.
It's a gun where you point and it tells the temperature where the laser lands.

We have 14 inches of snow on the ground temperatures around Thirty in the day, and twenty-seven at night.
Next week it will be cold, I'm not going to bother the girls until it gets warmer.
I have a entrance reducer, attached to the aluminum tape, and acts like a hinge, when it warms up, I can lift the entrance reducer, and get a true temperature inside the hive from the bottom.
Soon as the weather breaks, I'm ripping the bubble wrap off these hives, and we we go from there.
I might have two dead hives too! we will see.


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