# Bee beneficial cover crop...



## frustrateddrone (Jan 31, 2015)

Many people have posted similar conversations. So I will post my fifty cents and hopes you don't put a dollar into your project. Bees cover a range what is said up to 2 to 3 miles and times of drought 5. I don't know where that comes from a proven perspective, but that's the talk. I have no proof of that. You gotta understand that bees typically fly up about 15ft from my observation. In my thinking they actually fly outward and come foraging in from the furthest point. 
Reality checked HARD! This is from a bee class prior to getting my bees. A lady known as the bee plant lady in (Texas) purchased about 12 acres of land, built her land to be natural with bees in mind. So, long story short. After planting 10 acres of various plants to bloom and spending gobs of money with seeds, working the land and making it basically self sustaining this is the result of her honey pollination results. I think only about an eighth of a percent of pollen showed up in her honey. So, if your really trying to plant to source your bees some production honey, by all means start with about 5000 acres and then go to 7000 acres. You'll see an impact in your honey! Reality checked HARD!? YES INDEED! That couple of hundred dollars I spent on peach trees, rosemary, almond verra and some daisy's looks wonderful, but my water bill is more cost per watering a few times in what the bees will ever produce in honey in a year.


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## njtool (Jan 28, 2017)

Hi, 
There will be a lot for the bees to forage on without my few acres, and I know my few acres wont make a difference. However, if im buying seeds to sow a cover crop, I figured it wont hurt to plant something thats more bee friendly than just grass.
You bring up a good point about watering. I would like as low a maintenance crop as I can get.


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

njtool said:


> Hi,
> There will be a lot for the bees to forage on without my few acres, and I know my few acres wont make a difference. However, if im buying seeds to sow a cover crop, I figured it wont hurt to plant something thats more bee friendly than just grass.
> You bring up a good point about watering. I would like as low a maintenance crop as I can get.


I don't think it is fair to say a couple of acres won't make a difference. If you plant midsummer nectar sources in NJ, you may not increase your honey crop but you may reduce the need to feed later.

We have a lot of crown vetch in our area. The honeybees will work it but they don't prefer it. Bumblebees love it.

Honeybees adore most clovers (except for red, IIRC). Clovers can help bees get thru a midsummer dearth, which plagues mid-east-coast beekeepers. We had trouble growing them until I tested our soil and found it was deficient in two nutrients and also too acid ... it was perfect for crown vetch but clover would not thrive. Some amendment of the soil has let us grow clover in the few areas we treated. You should have county agricultural extension agents who know your local soil types. Look up how to take soil samples and get them tested. With your soil information, the agent may point you toward a good cover crop, likely a clover.

For areas where you intend to mow, "Dutch white" clover works. When the heads turn brown, mow, and you will get fresh blossoms. Sweet white and sweet yellow clovers do best in un-mowed areas, and bees love them. However, in some areas the sweet clovers are considered to be invasive weeds and it is illegal to cultivate them.

Last summer we got a surprising midsummer nectar flow, apparently due to bad weather earlier in the year knocking back the bumblebees. The early midsummer flow was due to common milkweed. Milkweeds also encourage butterflies and you can gain points with the butterfly people for planting them. Our flow continued with two other midsummer wildflowers that you probably don't have in NJ.

It is unlikely you can economically justify planting just for your bees, particularly just two hives. But if you have another goal, such as recovering a pasture or just getting rid of invasive brush, a few acres of midsummer forage may be quite welcome by your bees.


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## RBRamsey (Mar 1, 2015)

white clover is what I plant. It is cheap, nitrogen fixing, doesn't grow tall, and good nectar source for a long while.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

Sweet clover yellow or white; drought resistance long bloom time, makes really good honey 
buckwheat; can replant several time in a season, needs precipitation, acquired taste.


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## njtool (Jan 28, 2017)

Phoebee, 
My main goal is to recover the soil so when I do plant a food crop, im not starting from scratch. Im going to buy seeds for a cover crop anyway so it might as well be something for the bees.

Sweet clover sounds great but I think 4 foot is to high. Most of the land will be left alone but I will have to cross the field as im working. It looks like it grows very dense and im worried about ticks. If I wade into the sweet clover there is no telling how many ticks I will pick up I might plant some sweet clover where I know I wont traverse.

White clover sounds like the best option so far. It doesnt grow tall and I can mow it down and it will reflower. Are there any drawbacks to white clover?

The invase bush im trying to get rid of is russian olive. I wonder if the bees will like it? There will be at least an acre of olive that im not going to rip out the first year.


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

njtool said:


> White clover sounds like the best option so far. It doesnt grow tall and I can mow it down and it will reflower. Are there any drawbacks to white clover?
> 
> The invase bush im trying to get rid of is russian olive. I wonder if the bees will like it? There will be at least an acre of olive that im not going to rip out the first year.


The only downside I can see to the low-growing white clovers is that they're low-growing. In an untended and ungrazed field, they'll be swallowed up by tall weeds. So if you _wanted_ a low-maintenance weedy field, the taller sweet clovers would be better. However, you correctly identified the downside of that approach.

I have never dealt with Russian olive. In VA and WV we have huge amounts of "autumn olive", which the bees adore, but which is a hyper-invasive nasty that really should be eliminated. We have an area that is potentially a perfect Monarch waystation, designated as a nature preserve by our HOA bylaws, but heavily infested with autumn olive. We ought to get in there and yank up every bit of it, if we can identify whatever body is now responsible for it. The original conservancy seems to be dissolved. 

When you get right down to it, I think the clovers and vetches are mostly European imports and are to some degree considered invasive. So if the goal were to plant only natives, other choices should be found. 

One key to good bee forage is that honeybees could care less about a plant here and there. What they want is a dense, rich patch of something good. They tend to stick with one species on a given trip, and their recruitment behavior means they'll concentrate on the best source. Thus, a tiny patch in the back yard may be ignored. But a couple of acres of clover will probably get their attention just fine.

To get some spring benefit from the field you propose, leave the dandelions alone. The honey bees will simply adore those.


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## njtool (Jan 28, 2017)

The russian olive is very invasive too. Its very difficult to remove but I have a backhoe to help me. The reason im not clearing the entire pasture is because im sure it will be a pain. I read that if you cut it down to the ground, you just piss it off and it comes back harder and faster. Im sure I will be battling russian olive for years.

At this point I am not concerned with using only native species. I want to passivly amend the soil and give the bees something, if I can. The pasture is mostly surrounded by dense forest so the clover wont be able to crawl to far. When its time to use the land, I can turn the soil over to get rid of the clover.


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

njtool said:


> Im sure I will be battling russian olive for years.
> 
> At this point I am not concerned with using only native species. I want to passivly amend the soil and give the bees something, if I can. The pasture is mostly surrounded by dense forest so the clover wont be able to crawl to far. When its time to use the land, I can turn the soil over to get rid of the clover.


My tractor has two hooks on the bucket. I wrap a chain around saplings I want pulled, and yank them out, roots and all. That doesn't necessarily eliminate them, though. Alas, before we got bees, we yanked up a bunch of black locusts, which we now regret.

I really do suggest you get the soil tested. In Virginia, VA Tech does it for about $25. You can send it off yourself, or maybe get some help from a Master Gardener group associated with your agricultural extension office. I'm married to one of those. Without a soil test, you're shooting blind when it comes to picking future garden crops. 

Remediation, if needed, of two acres is likely to be pretty inexpensive. In our case, a couple of bags of lime and some high P & K fertilizer did the trick. But you need test results and a good idea of what you will plant to know what to put down.


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## Dan P (Oct 29, 2014)

I agree clovers dutch or some other white flower type. Clover is not very picky on soil type. That I have noticed.


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## jbraun (Nov 13, 2013)

Tuck your pants into your socks for ticks. This also works for chiggers if you have them in your area.


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## njtool (Jan 28, 2017)

We don't have chiggers but we do have deep ticks and lyme disease. I am in the woods a lot and the ticks hang on to clothing and find there way to skin unless you strip down and shower immediately. And I have 3 kids that are 12, 14, and 16. They don't understand the seriousness of tick born diseases and they brush off the safety precautions to easily. 

If I plant low growing flowers, then I can get chickens to help keep clear the ticks... I hope


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

If you have brush that you are concerned may resprout from the cut stump, brushing some glyphosate onto the freshly cut stump will prevent resprouting, in my experience. For this purpose, I use undiluted glyphosate (41%) and a suitable paint brush.

Larger landowners than I may use more sophisticated applicators than a _paintbrush_ - see page 26 of this PDF:
http://ucanr.edu/sites/csnce/files/57600.pdf
... but a simple brush works at the scale I am at. 

I have seen occasional references to a lopper that also has some kind of wiper on the blade to apply herbicide at the same time as the actual cutting, but I have not seen such a tool or figured out where I might acquire one.


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## tech.35058 (Jul 29, 2013)

njtool said:


> , then I can get chickens to help keep clear the ticks... I hope


I am told that Guineafowl will do a number on ticks, raise the alarm when strangers drive up, & roost high enough to survive the foxes.
I just haven't heard of them as traditional Sunday dinner 
As to plants, I would try for something that comes into season when the neighboring areas are in dearth ... plenty of good suggestions already made.
I like buckwheat for shading out weeds, but as noted, it needs water. Good Luck ... CE


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## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

Ya well there was this arborist who gave a talk and mentioned that you could gain 200lbs of honey from an acre of clover and 1200lbs of honey from an acre of trees, I am planting autumn olives and Russian olives and also bb trees. Go figure.
Johno


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## njtool (Jan 28, 2017)

I have read about glyphosate to kill the tree, but I am going to try to dig up the roots with my backhoe and see if they grow back. I might have to stay on top of the regrowth and dig or kill the new shoots. Im hoping that I don't have to resort to chemicals.

Johno, I will have about 2 acres of dense Russian olive remaining at least for this year. And I have 10 acres of mature hardwoods and there is at least 30 acres of hardwood right next to me that's heavily forested, not to mention all the farmland next to that. Maybe my new colonies will thrive... time will tell


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## FL_Ranger (May 28, 2016)

Buckwheat makes a great cover crop. Good for soil improvement when disced in and a great nectar source for bees!


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

njtool said:


> I have read about glyphosate to kill the tree, but I am going to try to dig up the roots with my backhoe and see if they grow back. I might have to stay on top of the regrowth and dig or kill the new shoots. Im hoping that I don't have to resort to chemicals.


Glycophosate is used in enormous quantities in "no-till farming". And you thought that method sounded so green! They can get away with it because it breaks down pretty fast, so it is not as harmful as some other ag chemicals. If you have a problem with cut stumps coming back, and you're using it with targeted application to a stump with a brush, don't feel bad. But do try pulling the offending bushes up roots and all with the tractor (a wrap or two of chain around the base, pulled up with either the backhoe or bucket). It disrupts the soil less and either kills or at least severely set back the offending bush or sapling.


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## njtool (Jan 28, 2017)

Im going to go the route of pulling the trees out, root and all. I have a crawler with a drott bucket and a backhoe. I guess the question will be how much of a mess will I make doing it. Haha

I've heard the same thing about guinea hens. A friend of mine has a farm, he use to have a bunch running around taking care of bugs. Then one by one they were taken out by either foxes or raccoons. I would be worried about the dumb guineas walking off. Haha


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## tmwilson (Apr 5, 2015)

A few acres can make a difference. It may not always, but often times it will. I have a field of Alsike clover that's only 4 acres. Several weeks a year they work that field. I'm not saying it means the difference between them living or dying, but it is definitely something they utilize. 

If you don't regularly mow or graze a low or intermediate clover it will be overtaken by taller growing plants. If mowing I would use white dutch or an intermediate white clover. If you're not going to have time to mow regularly I would use sweet clover. Sweet clover will generally reseed itself and has been used as a green manure for decades. It will really help your soil with N content, drainage, and increase the organic matter considerably. 

If there is something you can plant that doesn't need mowed, doesn't get tall, is bee friendly, and will readily compete with "weeds and brush", please let me know. I would like to buy some seed.

Have you thought about planting bee friendly trees? I'm not sure what you're end goal is with the land, but planting desirable trees is a good way to help keep those unwanted trees in check.


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## njtool (Jan 28, 2017)

I have to plant something so I figured it should be something the bees might like. My goal is to olant something that doesnt get tall so I can traverse it when I have to. I will be mowing and taking care of it as much as I have to but minimal maintenance is preferred. 

Sweet clove gets about 4 feet tall and very dense. It would be impossible to traverse land with it planted, so im going for standard while clover. If i have to rip out other plants that pop up and do a little maintence, thats no problem. I will probably turn the soil over before throwing seed down so that might help the clover get a stronghold

I will eventually remove all of the russian olives and bring back the 4 acres to a mixture of pasture and farm. I will be planting trees, but they will be fruit and nut trees. Im planning on planting about 40 fruit trees with the hopes of having fruit in 5 years. 

There is also mature hardwoods like sugar maple and a few other maples, black birch, red and white oak, hickory... and there is heavy farming all around me. Probably over 100 acres just along my road. There was corn last year and im not sure if they rotate crops, im hoping for soy this year. Im sure I will get to know the farmers.

My ultimate goal with the land is to produce most, if not all, of my food, both vegetable and meat. Oh, and honey of course.


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## ABruce (Dec 27, 2013)

If your Russian olive is a tree like we get be careful. The thorns will take out a tractor tire, or open up a mans face when your driving by. Ask how I know....


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## tmwilson (Apr 5, 2015)

I would not turn the soil prior to sowing clover unless you have access to a soil compactor. Clover does well with a very firm seed bed. 

Sounds like you have a very cool plan. It will be a lot of work but also very rewarding. Good luck.


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## njtool (Jan 28, 2017)

Thats good to I now about the thorns. They are very dense In the field and they thin out along the edge, which Is where im going to start removing them. As for the tires, I have a crawler with tracks, so they wont pop those. Haha. And there is an open roll cage that will offer some protection from swinging branches. Im hoping that I dont have to go into the briar patch, just work it from the outside.

If I do turn the soil over, I can compact it with my tracks and/or loader bucket. But maybe I will mow it as short as I can and then seed. Less work for me.


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## Danpa14 (Jun 12, 2013)

There are a couple of different sprays for clover that will kill grass and other broadleaf weeds. I have done the same as you are planning on five acres and if not for spraying, it would of reverted back to weeds pretty quickly. Once a dense stand of clover is established it is fairly selfsustaining other than bushhogging at least yearly. Get the soil tested, is a no brainer also.


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## lemmje (Feb 23, 2015)

I didn't read all this thread, but has anyone mentioned sainfoin? Around here a few small farmers are replacing alfalfa with it in their pastures. Maybe give sainfoin a look, bees love it, and every time you water it it blooms again, so year round source of feed for the bees.


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## njtool (Jan 28, 2017)

I would like to stay away from all chemicals, but I guess that depends on the tenacity of the weedsfoin 

Sainfoin looks attractive and I will keep that in mind. The one drawback I see is the height. I need to keep the height down because I will need to walk across the fields, and I live in lyme disease territory. Shorter plants will make me feel safer from ticks. And if I get guinea hens, they wont be able to graze through the tall grass.


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## Danpa14 (Jun 12, 2013)

njtool said:


> I would like to stay away from all chemicals, but I guess that depends on the tenacity of the weedsfoin
> 
> Sainfoin looks attractive and I will keep that in mind. The one drawback I see is the height. I need to keep the height down because I will need to walk across the fields, and I live in lyme disease territory. Shorter plants will make me feel safer from ticks. And if I get guinea hens, they wont be able to graze through the tall grass.


I tried yellow sweet clover and sainfoin in KY. The ph has to be above 7 which took a lot of lime and it still did poorly. Those do much better in western soils. The white clover right next to the sainfoin is doing great.


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