# The Yin Yang of Beekeeping.



## gkervitsky (Nov 20, 2008)

"Biological Beekeeping: Discussion of information and application concerning the keeping of bees and production of honey using biological methodology. We seek to understand how the bees operate biologically and then formulate management methods that cooperate, as much as possible, with the bees biology without resorting to the use of chemicals and drugs."

I AM OK WITH THAT!

I do not agree with the logic for removing the 5 words, but in the same respect I do not believe they add anything meaningful either. I suspect the remaining 2 sentences could be "wordsmithed" and improved too, but they are sufficient.


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## Solomon Parker (Dec 21, 2002)

I would be okay with removing it. I think I can understand its purpose, a sense of balance, probably between the beekeeper and the bees. But it is a bit nebulous in its current form.

Another point, ours is the longest subtitle of all the forums.

Third point, some of the religiously affected may shy away from a forum with a reference to eastern religion in its subtitle.

Points to ponder.


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## criscojohn (Sep 11, 2010)

I am not a "biological" beekeeper, although I try to keep all chemicals to a minimum. I do check in to learn new things, and garner others' opinions on beekeeping, so have an open mind for all methods. imho, I don't think Yin and Yang belong in the title--has religious overtones, or at least philosophical overtones. Unless, of course, you think the bees are trying to tell us something. . .  P.S. Until you brought it up, I hadn't even noticed it.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Yin and Yang would indicate balance. I always assumed it was the natural ecological balance of the hive.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

You got it, but I see it means something else to a lot of others. I'm staying out of this one and seeing where it goes.


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

Instead of calling this forum the "Biological Forum" just call it the treatment free forum. Plain and simple! Cut and dry, simple to the point!

The Disease and Pest forum can be for the discussion of how to treat and with what. 

Each side has it's own sandbox to play in.

Those with questions of "what is this" or "my hive died...help", can post in either forum or both forums and decide from there which direction they want to go!

Then you can drop the "ying and yang" and we get on with talking bees


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## kbee (Mar 6, 2005)

I will jump into the hotseat and offer, Information and advice concerning the keeping of bees and the production of hive products using the honeybees inate biological charactoristics while limiting the use of additional treatments.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

I say leave the ying-yang in, re-read the Description, with emphisis on "honey Production" and "Management Methods", then start a new forum for the "hands-off" crowd. Let the group that wants to leave thier hives alone, not adding anything, not manipulating, have their own place to discuss thier adventures.

Crazy Roland


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Yes good points raised there. I think where I've sometimes gone wrong in this forum and even offended some, is because I thought it was about biological beekeeping. 

Now I realise it's about treatment free beekeeping and pro treatment free only, I know what it's about and could abide by that. But it's taken me a while to discover that.

However the current title is misleading and may be the cause of what some see as "issues".


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## Omie (Nov 10, 2009)

*I brought this topic up in December 2009:
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=236237*
Heck, I even used the same word Sol just did, 'nebulous', to describe the forum title and subtitle!
I agree that the bit about yin and yang is unnecessary and somewhat vague.
But then again I have always had a problem with the main title of this forum as well. As I said before, it makes this sound like a forum for biologists and entomologists, not natural beekeeping fans.


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## RiodeLobo (Oct 11, 2010)

As a newbie I can say that the general discussion in this forum is quite often adversarial at best, and in those cases unattractive and frankly not helpful. 

Perhaps it would be best to have separate forums under Biological Beekeeping.

1. Totally Treatment free.
2. Green/"Organic" Beekeeping. Management using a minimal chemicals.


Personally I would like a place to learn, where I can get the treatment free perspective. On the other hand having access to the knowledge and experience of those who have or do treat when needed, but focus on minimizing the use of treatment has been very helpful to me.

The largest problem that i see, is that there is a two sides of the coin approach here. You are all in or all out and there is no ground in the middle, which excludes many points of view, and this middle ground is where I learn the most.

Dan Hayden


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## Delta Bay (Dec 4, 2009)

> as much as possible


I think if you want this forum section to be about treatment free you need to take this part out. Even with that out I don't think we want to excluded anyone from participating. It should be about understanding the bees as a whole and not about treatments for bees.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Dan -

That's because the experience of many show that there isn't much of a middle ground. Nature doesn't like "middle ground."


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

I agree with DAn Hayden , we need a new forum. 
That way the treatment free can be seperated from those that:

formulate management methods that cooperate, as much as possible, with the bees biology without resorting to the use of chemicals and drugs.

Emphasis on the "as much as possible"

Crazy Roland


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Sorry, no new forum.


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## Solomon Parker (Dec 21, 2002)

Roland said:


> "as much as possible"


...is precisely 100%.

That's what is possible.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

The term Yin/Yang refers to the duality of the whole, therefore, if we are not to discuss all sides of a subject, under Bio Bee, then, imo, it is being improperly used.


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## RiodeLobo (Oct 11, 2010)

WiredForStereo said:


> ...is precisely 100%.
> 
> That's what is possible.


Than just say that and be done with it and redefine the forum as Non-treating.

Barry- "That's because the experience of many show that there isn't much of a middle ground. Nature doesn't like "middle ground." "

I disagree, in any traumatic change in the environment, such as habitation loss, changes in food availability, human encroachment or natural disaster it is the generalist that survive not the specialist. I think that equates to the middle of the road.

In modern time just look at the wolf versus the coyote. They were both hunted and lost habitat, however you never hear of coyote reintroduction programs or a push to put them on the endangered species list. The wolf is more specialized than the coyote, and the coyote prospers where the wolf has declined. 


Barry- "Sorry, no new forum. "

How about a sub-forum, such as is in the For sale forum for Canadian's?

Dan


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