# OA VAP 110.04 Oxalic Acid Vaporizer



## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Joerg, don't get discouraged. You are offering this vaporizer in the for sale forum at a time when those that needed one this year have already purchased one, and those that might want one next year are putting it off until after Christmas. And of course there is a little competition in this market... Good luck with your sales. The band heater style vaporizer is far superior to the wand/pan style if 120v is avalable.


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## rwlaw (May 4, 2009)

What JW says, hang in there. Also remember, word of mouth is going to get out there too. I always direct people to the site for things like this.


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## Biermann (May 31, 2015)

Thanks for the advise. Why would I be discouraged? I am selling good and don't need to live of it. The reason I posted here is the reduced cost if compared to eBay where I pay 11-13% (without any 'special' marketing options) and that normally comes out of the buyers pocket. I am happy if my buyers are!

Joerg


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

I misread your post to mean that you were not getting the chatter on Beesource that you had hoped for. Glad tht your sales are doing well.

Mit der Welt, alles in Ordnung ist.


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## Beut Idaho (May 27, 2019)

Is the tube low enough for this to treat under a reduced entrance that may be only 1/4 inch high with a landing board or would that make the unit point downward too much?


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

It is just so easy to pop a 1/4 inch hole wherever needed. I certainly don't worry about the aesthetics of a 1/4 hole. I have worm holes in quite a few hives anyways.

I have been using a hole in the rear of the bottom board but using cement blocks for base that is flush with rear of the hive, it is no problem flipping the unit to discharge the OA from the cap. My setup would not work with my unit on extended landing boards but I would not choose to treat from the front.

I use these pairs of tapered strips to put an entrance wherever I need it without altering boxes. With these you could blow the OA in between the upper and lower hive bodies. Only takes a few seconds to slip them in.


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## Biermann (May 31, 2015)

Beut Idaho said:


> Is the tube low enough for this to treat under a reduced entrance that may be only 1/4 inch high with a landing board or would that make the unit point downward too much?


If that is the way you want to treat all the time, you can just bend the 3/16 tube easily, but gentle and careful. I will make some pictures tomorrow and place them here, but could be later afternoon or evening.


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## Biermann (May 31, 2015)

Hello,

As promised, I build OA VAP110.05 to feed in to the low front entrance. I don't know if this is low enough? Please tell me.


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## Smokeybee (Mar 24, 2018)

Joerg,

What is the amperage draw of this vaporizer and how long does it take per hive?

Thank you - Smokey


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## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

Smokeybee said:


> Joerg,
> 
> What is the amperage draw of this vaporizer and how long does it take per hive?
> 
> Thank you - Smokey


The paper that comes with it says 110V, 300 watt, 2.7 amps.


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## Biermann (May 31, 2015)

Smokeybee said:


> Joerg,
> 
> What is the amperage draw of this vaporizer and how long does it take per hive?
> 
> Thank you - Smokey


Thanks grozzie2, you are correct, 300 Watt and this makes 2.727 Amp. on 110 VAC. 

The time to dissolve and vaporize the OA depends on: ambient temperature, amount of OA, set point on the PID controller, starting temp. of the bowl, cooling of the discharge tube *and the* amount of OA. Normal 3 gram, 1/2 teaspoon takes 30-55 seconds. It seems the length for the first and second vaporizing takes longer then any subsequent charges.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Santa brought me one for Christmas! :applause:

I just made a trial run. On my watt meter it shows 275 - 278 watts watts power draw. Closer to 300 when first powered on. With temperature outside right around freezing the time to discharge half teaspoon load was 50 seconds. 

Temperature control is quite precise and it appears the setting as received _will be easy on the silicone plugs_.:thumbsup: Burning plugs is a bit of a problem with my homemade one without temperature control.


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## Smokeybee (Mar 24, 2018)

Thank you sir!


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## Ryan Williamson (Feb 28, 2012)

Joerg,
A few questions as I am in the market for a faster way to treat my bees than the wands I have. 
Yours looks nice and stout but I am wondering if the tube is strong enough to not be damaged by leaving the unit stuck in a hole or sitting on a front entrance while loading the next caps. 
Your display is below the handle and facing outward rather than upward...How is it reading the temp and settings while installed in a hive without kneeling like in your video?
Once running what is the average time for a two box hive treatment? I have 60-100 hives to treat at a go.
How long have you been using yours? have you tested its efficacy? Do you have a warranty?


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## Biermann (May 31, 2015)

Hello Ryan,

Happy New Year and happy bees!

*Any comments by users of my vaporizer are encouraged!* I can implement changes to my design if I am told what is needed.

Thank you for your questions and I will try to answer them for you & others.

I build & sell the current 110.04 for about a year. My first prototype was build about two years ago and is still my standard unit while I always try my newest model to make sure all works as assumed.

Now, all band heater type vaporizers work on the same principal: a bowl with not to much size and very conductive material (welded copper in my case), a band heater with the highest watt rating possible (300 watt in my units), a plug to drop the required OA charge in to the hot bowl and a discharge tube also highly conductive (again copper in my case). Many tests have been conducted by others and myself on what size is best and we all have come to agree that the 3/16" works the best. No way really around that and you are correct, it is the weakest point in all units, mine and from other builders. My unit is sturdy, well build and tested many times. The interesting part is that I receive many questions before a purchase, but once delivered I hear nothing anymore. The old saying is still valid 'no news is good news'.

Your current process will take about 4-5 minutes per treatment and you need to let the pan cool before charging for the next hive, remove the entrance reducer (if installed) and you will defiantly have to change your mode of action. With 60-100 hives, you will not have single hives, but probably four per pallet and I would work in pallet (or group) increments. Four hives in a group means four plugs prepared with charge and once the unit is at 420-430F, you will push the up-side-down bowl on the plug, insert the 3/16" tube in the front entrance, side hole or wherever you want to treat from and turn the unit so the charge drops. From here on, you will not have much time to do anything else, 30-45 seconds on and your first charge is gone, you take the next and want stop and get a break until all for charges are gone. This is best done in a team with more then 10-20 hives, one preps, one does the treatment.

I have left the tube for a minute or two in the entrance when I tested and it does not bend that easy, but one needs to remember what is important, to get the required result and it is not a large, strong tube bubbling the OA on the bottom board, but the thin tube to vaporize as much as possible to push the OA vapor through the hive. 

The PID position could be a concern, but what better place then opposite from the vaporizing tube at all times, not pointing up at one position and pointing down in the 'loading, charging' position. Once you are going, this becomes a non issue since you only glance at the value to confirm the charge is spend and the temperature is rising again (indicating the OA charge is spend).

About efficacy, this has been debated in this and other forums for a long time and I believe the common understanding is this: if vaporized as much as possible with a good band heater and controller through a narrow tube into a hive that is not fully clustered, then the results are as good as any other method, but it should and needs to be monitored since every location is unique and the operator needs to be able to judge if his approach yields the necessary results. This includes other treatment options, mite counts before and after, treatment intervals etc. If you want the easy way out, Apivar is the way to go, say four strips in fall and four strips in spring for a double deep brood hive, CAD3.00-4.00 a strip= CAD24 to 32 per hive per year plus opening to install and remove after 6 weeks is money too. 100 hives = CAD2400 plus time.

I have not used Apivar miticide for two year and my hives are healthy, but one needs to be on guard all the time as you will know.

My units have a normal one year warranty and I would be a foul not acting on customers problems and remedy them as quickly as possible since bad news travels much faster then good news. Excluded from the warranty is the 3/16" tube breakage since this is user related and should (and has not) happened with any unit. 

The unit is setup relatively simple, the bowl is mounted with two SS screws and acorn nuts, washers and thermocouple to the frame and exchanging the bowl can be done easily, but it takes the right tools and about 15-30 minutes, but holding or supporting the unit for the 30-45 seconds of actual action makes more sense to me. One would not leave a loaded gun unattended either.

Again, I build the OA VAP110.04 for a while and I am confident it is a good tool and had not to act on any claims to date.

I hope this helps you to make your decision. Let me know if you have additional questions. 

With best regards, JoergK.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

If your hives have anywhere nearly the same height you could have a block of wood or a prop that would allow you to set the unit on while it was discharging. That would save having to hold onto it. A weight and a string could also easily suspend it from the top of the hive.


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## Ryan Williamson (Feb 28, 2012)

Thanks for the detailed response JoergK. 
Ironically I was in my bees doing the winter treatment with my two wand vaporizers. It took me just over 3 hours to do 60 hives. I currently use Varrox brand ones and dunk them in cold water as soon as I pull them out of the hive without ever disconnecting them from the battery. While not an approved cool off method it has worked for five years and speeds things up greatly. But it sounds like I could knock the time more than in half with a unit like yours which would be nice for sure. 

I recently borrowed a provap and was able to leave it propped in the entrance like you do at the 0:33 mark of the https://youtu.be/plnY3xASNto front entrance video. Their tube appears to be shorter than yours and thus perhaps would have less tendency to bend? By leaving it in the front I could prepare the next plug and was able to do all 60 hives without stopping just using two plugs. How much does your unit weigh? your workmanship looks beautiful by the way!
Thanks
Ryan


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## Biermann (May 31, 2015)

Thanks Ryan, you know that need is the mother of all inventions and we are just into year three of this vaporizing development, but have learned great things since we started (not just me, I mean all that build them). I can make the 3/16 pipe any length and you as buyer can take a small pipe cutting tool and shorten the pipe to any length, but remember, it is easy to cut, but hard to stretch. 

Look at post #10, where I have bend the tube and anyone with a little care can make thus bends. Fill the tube with fine sand, salt or such to avoid kinking the tube. 

The unit weighs two pounds.


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## OBG (Jun 16, 2013)

Joerg, I would like to correspond with you about a purchase.


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## Biermann (May 31, 2015)

@OBG - PM send.


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## Oneshoo (Feb 14, 2019)

Can you supply a link to purchase your vaporizer? Thanks


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## Biermann (May 31, 2015)

Hello oneshoo,

it is easy, you can send me your email to joerg [email protected] or pm me, or sometimes, I have one on ebay

We can do this at your preference, just look at the details here

Cheers, JoergK.


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## OBG (Jun 16, 2013)

Perfect, thank you. I will link a bank account to my currently depleted PayPal and forward payment to you. What do you anticipate for a shipping date after payment?


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## Biermann (May 31, 2015)

Hello OBG, I have one ready for you. It could go out today or on Thursday since I am out tomorrow.

JoergK.


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## Biermann (May 31, 2015)

Hello, This question was asked:

Looking at Johno's units it looks like he has an insulation around the bowl for greater heat retention and perhaps faster vaporization speed. I have left over high temperature flat stove gasket rope that I was thinking I might wrap around mine. Do you see any harm in adding insulation?

My answer: this is a good question, but I have not experimented with it. I see no harm in it. Johno & I have discussed this and he feels it makes a world of difference. From my side, I have not found the right material, yet and I dislike duct tape with a passion. So trying does not harm anything. I will start a test on this myself and will report.

This may work:






but string would be better for rapping it around the bowl. Make sure it is muffler grade insulation to withstand high temperatures. Let me know what your thoughts are. Thanks.

JoergK.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

I insulated some of my homemade models and it does speed up initial heat up and recovery between boil offs. I used layer wrapped fiberglass cloth. The aluminum foil tape would make a good protective coating for the glass cloth that kind of tatters up otherwise. Joerg's units would be easy to wrap the sides and bottom of vessel. Just be carefull not to spill OA powder down into the glass cloth as it takes a while before it quits giving off that irritating smoke.


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## Ryan Williamson (Feb 28, 2012)

I asked the question regarding insulation and aluminum foil tape was my first though to protect the insulation. Thinking about it more the foil might get beat up as well. I wonder if one could brush on high temperature silicone caulk or perhaps a mastic like this: 
https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company...ure-Sealant-1137/?N=5002385+3291796008&rt=rud

My other thought would be a muffler tape over the insulation. Thoughts?


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Ryan Williamson said:


> I asked the question regarding insulation and aluminum foil tape was my first though to protect the insulation. Thinking about it more the foil might get beat up as well. I wonder if one could brush on high temperature silicone caulk or perhaps a mastic like this:
> https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company...ure-Sealant-1137/?N=5002385+3291796008&rt=rud
> 
> My other thought would be a muffler tape over the insulation. Thoughts?


Ryan, I think all these ideas are workable. In a pinch I made a flexible tapered intake adapter using old T shirt material saturated with silicone and wrapped about three layers. Fuel proof, air tight, and flexible. You could do the same substituting glass cloth and the high temp silicone. Do the same with muffler cement or plaster of paris to make something like casts are made of.


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## Beut Idaho (May 27, 2019)

I bought one of these units and it is great. Too cold here to do actual treatments but I ran some water through it as suggested to test and to do a test run on cleaning. I also did a couple of trial runs with oxalic acid, just blowing it outside in the yard. The unit is well built, works great, and seems very sturdy. Very professionally done with the equipment and service.


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## Biermann (May 31, 2015)

Hello Bee-vapor's, thank you for your comments.

*Beut Idaho*, please give your comments with your special bend 3/16 tube, how it works etc.. You have a prototype and it is always good to hear if it works or not.

The longer tube may be cooling the vapor to fast and/or to much, so watch it carefully and react to it if your mites don't drop in numbers!

I am always improving the unit, that is why I am already on 110.04 now. Not that the 01 one doesn't work, but small improvements may make it more reliable, easier to handle and/or lighter.

We cut 80 frames at a time, so some changes need to wait until we do the next cut run. I run a farm and a seed export business, so time is often in short supply, but i am trying hard to make (and keep) my buyers happy.

JoergK.


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## cozybees (Aug 19, 2016)

Sent an email regarding purchasing from you. Looking forward to getting one of your units!


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## Ryan Williamson (Feb 28, 2012)

Thanks Joerg,
Feedback time! I just treated 53 hives in 60 minutes with my new unit from you. Thats about three times as fast as my old two wand system so I am thrilled! I did wrap some flat stove gasket rope around the bottom and sides so I am not sure if that sped things up or not. 

A few small feedback notes as I know you are interested in improvements.
One small easily fixed frustration was that the rubber grip would rotate on the handle. I will just give it a quick squirt of 3M spray contact cement and shove it back on. I recall in my youth working at a bike shop we would put handle bar grips on with hair spray. I just used the new white caps and did notice what appears to be a bit of degradation on the part that was stuck inside the unit. I am curious how long they will last. 
Overall it's awesome and I highly recommend it There are less mites in my neck of the woods now!
Ryan








Homemade insulation








Caps after one round


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## Biermann (May 31, 2015)

cozybees - did we make contact? I can't know since your email address & name is different then your name in this forum.

Ryan, Thanks for your remarks and I apologies for the bike grip turning on the pipe. I will use the method you suggested from now on.

I guess the only way to see the difference with insulating the bowl would be to use it both ways on a set amount of hives. I did not notice much delay when I treat without insulation, but I only have four hives, so a difficult amount to see a 10% increase in speed.

The plugs (any material) will deteriorate over time with use, even the Teflon rubber is not immune against the heat that the unit generates. 

Please keep me all posted on your findings. I am here to listen and act.

Cheers, Happy Hunting, JoergK.


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## Western (May 29, 2016)

I'll also give my feedback after 1st use.

I should have timed the use , but I was in "1st use" mode so took my time. Using the 4 supplied caps, I would guess it was at least 3 times faster than using my wand. 

Once I preloaded the caps and allowed the unit to reach 400 (mine tops out at 432F) Once I rotated the unit and tapped the plug, temp would drop to around 300-320, within about 30 seconds or so, it had reached 400-430 and that hive was done. I was so quick, I double checked that I had done it correctly

10 hives went by PDQ!

What I used and found. I used a portable genset and a 100' HD power cord I had. I could hear the genset pull amps when the OA was dropped into the pan which I liked, when the unit hit set temp, I could hear the genset lower the load, I liked this as an audible actually. I can easily see using a genset placed in a pickup bed for doing out-yard type situations and treating every hive within that radius easily.

I also treated from the front entrance using a paint stir stick with a 1/4" hole drilled as Joerg describes, I have slatted racks on these hives and it was a fair comparison to the wand. It appeared I got as much or more vapor emitting from cracks and crevices as I do using the wand. I like the idea of using holes in the brood boxes, just apprehensive of blowing up to 400f vapor possibly directly into a loose cluster (problem? idk?) I likely will drill holes at some point though as I can see there may be some advantages to injection site in the middle of the 2 brood boxes.

As far as the unit itself, much better build than the photos imo, very clean and well done. From my limited one time use so far, I cant see having to add a temp shield as I didn't experience a huge slowdown (as compared to using the wand), It was all I could do to refill the caps to continue. What I did run into on hive 9 and 10, it seem enough liquid vapor gets in the cap after a couple uses and there was a very small amount of oa crystals that stuck in the cap corners. I think having a cloth handy to quickly wipe them out would cure that if it's even a problem. The majority of the load was cooked off in any even after a small finger flick on the rubber cap that helps drop the crystals into the heater.

I had no problem with the handle, even tried after reading this thread again, mine is pretty solid.

Joerg, my 1st use convinces me you have a winner, I also want to commend you on a very well built product, great email response and lead time. Thank you much Sir and all those that tackle things like this that may help others manage our endeavors.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

Biermann said:


> The for sale ad I started should not have any message or comments,


First of all good for you for adhering to the stated rules! Yes, that is what the rules suggest for that sub-forum, but since Barry is no longer running the show, it seems that violations are now overlooked. Personally, I believe that it does a disservice to the For Sale sub-forum to permit such lengthy commentaries that are currently ongoing. In fact, if I were a paying advertiser here (particularly if I sold Oxalic Acid Vaporizers) I'd be quite upset that "some" members get free promotion while others need to pay. We all want Beesoure to thrive and continue to be a wonderful asset to the beekeeping community.

Just my 2 cents...


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## Biermann (May 31, 2015)

*Western* - thanks for your comments, but I feel I should not comment right now, I am a humble guy if I have too 

*AstroBee* - well, I like to know my path and like to stick to it. One issue is the possibility to edit a 'for sale' post, it should be possible by the seller at any time and not limited to a day or two after posting. Your comments are dead-on!


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

I think sometimes people dont realize that they are on a personal, paid, space. I have made posts for example on TF that was not appropriate. If you click on most recent post you dont see a header indicating what forum you have arrived at.

Someone should not be getting a free ride on your nickel!


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

Biermann said:


> *AstroBee* - well, I like to know my path and like to stick to it. One issue is the possibility to edit a 'for sale' post, it should be possible by the seller at any time and not limited to a day or two after posting. Your comments are dead-on!



Well, I did specifically post a similar sentiment in one of the currently lengthy ongoing discussions in the For Sale sub-forum. The thread starter agreed with my comment and then continued to permit/condone such behavior. Apparently its good for sales...


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## Biermann (May 31, 2015)

Hello All,

A quick update from my end. I am not to worried about post in my sales thread, we are all only human.

Production is good, but as johno says, some parts are in short supply and I will be away all next week, Feb. 21st to March 2nd. So no production or shipping before March 5th!!!

We also have to make and order new parts and have to hope for timely delivery.

EBay has not been to good on sales, charging an average of 12% per sale and in addition PayPal charges additional 4%, so more sales are developed through the Beesource. Also, contact to the buyer can not be done anymore through eBay after 90 days from sale, one issue I don't like because I always like to know if my buyers are happy. I guess I am not selling a $100,000 BMW, but still the buyer should be happy and I need to be allowed to make contact at my terms, not only be pushed for short term deals.

We are now shipping to many different destinations and it is interesting to hear the comments from buyers. The use of band heaters from the US has helped to keep the supplies on different voltage models easy. No problems to date with crossing any borders! (Keep my fingers crossed!)

I will order new laser cuts in March and will change the cover from 16 Gauge to 20 gauge since it is not part of the strength of the construction, but only a cover. This should reduce a small amount of weight. 

Heat transfer from the bowl to the frame was a problem on early productions and we have now (for some time already) changed to have the cut-out between bowl (mica band heater) and main frame, reducing the amount of energy moving away from the bowl. Tests with non-conductive material did not go to well mostly because of the heat that gets generated at the bowl. Wood deformed and charcoled , 3D printed materials did not stand-up to the bending and stress tests and it seems my initial construction still works great.

BTW, I have one unit running steady in my garage on the test table since spring of last year with a counter and the PID controller has cycled 45,000 times by now without missing a beat.

Cheers,

JoergK.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Quote:"I always like to know if my buyers are happy."
:applause::thumbsup:


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## Bee Arthur (Mar 21, 2015)

Just wanted to post a recommendation for Biermann's vaporizer. I got mine a month or two ago. It's a quality piece of gear. While I haven't used it yet to treat any hives, I did test the vaporizer with a batch of OA and then water. It's amazing how quickly the process is, and I'm excited to get through my hives in 30-45 minutes instead of 2-3 hours.

I've already put the treatment holes in the backs of my hives (and plugged them with shortened gold tees)--that part of the process was easy too, so don't let it stop you from using one of these quick vaporizers.


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## Ryan Williamson (Feb 28, 2012)

Joerg,
I am falling in love with your vaporizer! As its cold up your way and you can't do a video treating live bees I thought I should give it a try. So here is 15 hives in 14 minutes including me shocking my butt on the 10,000 volt electric fence. I hope that this is helpful for anyone considering buying one. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUZ_20SaZgU&t=426s

A few notes...
1. my voice is terrible behind my organic vapor mask with a sticky valve. Darth vader
2. Working one handed with a cellphone in the other is not easy! I am sorry for the jerky video but I wanted to treat like I normally do. My first time working while recording. 
3. the digital display on the vaporizer looks totally fine to the human eye but my cellphone video shows it as flashing. 
4. I misspoke in the video i said that its 1/3 the speed when I meant to say that it takes 1/3 the time to treat compared to using two wand vaporizers.
4. My apologies if I pronounced your name wrong.


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## Biermann (May 31, 2015)

Thanks Ryan,

I only had time for the first 5 minutes of your youtube video and had no headphones and my brain is still over the UK or close to Greenland at the moment, but it will come back to me in a few days.

Any info you users give is worth more then me saying it. I see you just leave the unit hang in the hole, no problem with it bending?

Cheers, JoergK.

Orders are coming quick and I am building units again tonight.


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## Western (May 29, 2016)

Joerge,
My 1st xt I did it that way, had no issue with bending the spout, not near as much leverage, even with the heat, as it is doing it thru the holes I have now in the back. I did notice some paint melt on the landing board, so will use a metal shim between the unit and landing board if I ever use the front entrance again.


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## Ryan Williamson (Feb 28, 2012)

Oh come on five minutes of my handheld video would make any head spin. My bottom boards stick out several inches so I set the unit on that and slide the tube in the entrance reducer as far as possible so that the pressure on the tube is as close to your weld as possible. For me its critical to be able to step away while its running to load more caps and open and close entrances. I treated 53 hives without stopping.


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

Nice Vid Ryan
Commenting to see updates to this thread
GG


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## dgl1948 (Oct 5, 2005)

We purchased a Provap a couple of years ago. It works well and have not had any real issues with it. We decides it would be nice to have a second until to speed things up and as a backup source as well. We purchased one of these OA Vapp units and have not had the chance to use it yet. I must say I am very pleased with the construction of it. Its construction is far better than the Provap we are using. They will both be getting a workout this spring so we will compare them again at that time.


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## Biermann (May 31, 2015)

@dgl1948 - thank you for your comments. I am build equipment that I can use over & over again. Let us know your comments once you have done your spring treatment.

JoergK.


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

Fellow Keeper, VAPers
I just ordered a full face mask for use with VAPing. 30 day delivery window.
So FYI order a mask if you need one prior to the season.
Seems the current "Scare" has these in short supply

GG


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## Bee Arthur (Mar 21, 2015)

Joerg, I demonstrated your vaporizer in a video I just posted. The relevant footage runs from 13:54 through 22:25. If you'd like I'd be happy to post a link in the video description for people to check out your product. (For the record, I do NOT want any kickback.)

https://youtu.be/99ZtlqTVenk


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## Biermann (May 31, 2015)

Hello Bee Arthur,

Thank you for your work. Very much appreciated.

Getting parts (particularly the PID controller) is becoming a nightmare.

Summer & harvest is on us again and time is limited.

I hope to have some units welded this coming week and hope to be able to ship the week after!

Bee Happy!

JoergK.


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## Dubby's (Jul 25, 2020)

Cant wait to get one, looks like a well built unit.


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## Biermann (May 31, 2015)

Dubby's said:


> Cant wait to get one, looks like a well built unit.


So, do you want to buy one? It want be ready before end of August because I am behind building the units. It is harvest and time is short.

I can put you on my list and need your details if you want.

JoergK.


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## Dubby's (Jul 25, 2020)

I sent you an email over the weekend to put me on the list.


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## Biermann (May 31, 2015)

Terry? If so, you are on, sorry, could not guess.


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## Dubby's (Jul 25, 2020)

Sorry about that I was talking and typing!! Yes Terry Doublin


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## dekster (Jun 26, 2019)

Another happy customer here- I received the vaporizer from Joerg today just in time for my fall treatment start. It worked fine right out of the box (I did a couple of dry runs and one with water just to clean any residue) and I treated 10 hives in a fraction of time it would have taken me when using the wand. Also this allowed me to treat the nucs that don't have entrance hole big enough for wand head. The best part is that I can do it from the back of the hives without having to stand in the fly path of the angry bees that find the entrance closed. Silicone plugs are very easy to insert and remove without any tools, temperature control is spot on. Plus it is made in Canada, happy to support local businesses! Thank you, Joerg!


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## bushpilot (May 14, 2017)

I received mine last week, and used it today for the first time. It worked as expected and hoped. I treated 22 hives in less than an hour, including the time needed to move the unweildy generator around. The biggest problem was said generator, everything else worked fine!

I treated 7 of the hives from the back through a drilled hole, and the other 15 through the entrance. Next time they will all be treated through the back, it is a much better way to go.

Question - on the 7 I treated from the back, I have a slatted rack installed, so I just drilled the hole in the rack. Without the rack, do most people drill in the lower box, between the two center frames? it seems like all the the OAV would simply coat the seam in the middle, and little would disperse throughout the hive. Or am I missing something?


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## Biermann (May 31, 2015)

Hello Bushpilot,

Good to hear all works well.

I use double deeps and drill a 1/4" hole in the center at the bottom of the top box. The vapor disperses nicely through the whole hive. I also believe the bees move the crystals of the OA around, but I am not the expert on this.

Cheers, Joerg K.


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## Dubby's (Jul 25, 2020)

dekster said:


> Another happy customer here- I received the vaporizer from Joerg today just in time for my fall treatment start. It worked fine right out of the box (I did a couple of dry runs and one with water just to clean any residue) and I treated 10 hives in a fraction of time it would have taken me when using the wand. Also this allowed me to treat the nucs that don't have entrance hole big enough for wand head. The best part is that I can do it from the back of the hives without having to stand in the fly path of the angry bees that find the entrance closed. Silicone plugs are very easy to insert and remove without any tools, temperature control is spot on. Plus it is made in Canada, happy to support local businesses! Thank you, Joerg!


They look well built. Cant wait to get get mine.


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## Biermann (May 31, 2015)

Hello All,

A short update:

I am building them steady, but some times have difficulty getting needed parts, so waiting for one part of ~20 stops the whole process.

Here a picture of housings on my welders workbench. We definitely don't cut corners. I feel we build the best unit on the market, no plastic, no wood. All welded, good material and good workmanship.

I have shipped close to 200 and have had one unit that has failed and I replaced it free of charge, free of shipping and hope to see the unit back since I like to know what went wrong.

Beside that, a little issue here and there, fixable over the phone or through email. 









Don't know why this picture is not upright!

Cheers, JoergK.


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## dgl1948 (Oct 5, 2005)

Just an update on this vaporizer. We have used the Provap for a couple of years with no real issues other than the Teflon caps. We purchased extras and they are to big for the cup and we have had a bit of an issue with the O rings sealing. We decided to speed things up and have a backup and added the Biermann vaporizer to our lineup. We used both this fall. Both worked well other than the cap issues with the Provap. I like the construction of the Biermann better and there are no issues with the cap sealing on it. I would certainly recommend it over the provap..


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## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

dgl1948 said:


> I like the construction of the Biermann better and there are no issues with the cap sealing on it. I would certainly recommend it over the provap..


The plugs issue was interesting to read.

I was on the phone with somebody a couple hours ago, they were asking about the differences between the provap from Beemaid, and this one from Joerg. My answer was 'same heater, same pid, different case which I actually prefer, and you can buy 3 of them from Joerg for the price of one Provap from Beemaid'.


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## Biermann (May 31, 2015)

Thank you for the comments. I did have problems with the Mypin PId's, about seven have given us problems and I did replace as soon as I could and I am not 100% sure we found the problem, but I believe it was related to the internal contacts. I remove them all now from the housing and use a little pull toll made from a wire to pull the contact out a little to increase the contact pressure. I also apply some dielectric grease to have the contacts protected. I also will switch to the Ink-bird PID once the test units with he Ink-bird have worked without problems.

It is frustrating having the units on your bench for 4-5 hrs, test with water and let them cycle succesfully, to have the buyer use the darn unit for five treatments and having problems. Particularly when they are deep down south across the 49th.

I will have a prototype out for treating straight down, to go through the inspection hole in the lid, picture to follow. You all know their is no multi tool that will do it all.

JoergK.


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## Biermann (May 31, 2015)

Hello, some info to my construction, the thought behind it and some simple facts.

The low 3/16" exit copper tube has a reason! Copper is the best thermal conductor one can use (I could use silver if you are willing to pay for it).

The units I build are for hobby beek's, but I have many with guys doing 5,000 and more hives. They use about 1 for 500-1,000 hives.

Now, transmitting the 300 watt heat from the element to the bowl is one thing, but keeping the vapor tube hot is a different can of worms, but as much important as heating the bowl. I have tried larger diameter tubes, 1/4" for example, but did not get as nice of a vapor 'blast' as with the 3/16. My tube goes in close to the bottom and bends up along the back side of the entrance just to a level under the plug. This makes the dropped charge to be vaporized before it gets to the exit, vapor tube.

I noticed that the soft copper hardens over time with the 400-430°F and should not be bend much after 5-10 uses!

The InkBird ITC-106RH is much superior to the Mypin TA4. From factory setting, it does not over-shoot as much as the Mypin and automatically converts the C° to the correct F° and vise versa, so no resetting of the target temp. when changing from C to F. The PID holder is much better then the flimsy little clips on the mypin.

Here the bottom vapor tube with a Mypin TA4-SSR. Great to treat through the top lid with inspection hole.


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## dgl1948 (Oct 5, 2005)

Just a thought about the bottom vapor tube. If the base was a little bigger and solid it would work real good through the feeder holes. Pull the cap off the lid and have the base completely cover the hole while vaporizing. Remove machine and reinsert plug. I think it would make things very easy.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

I dont think it necessary to change the base; Just have a 6" or so square of thin ply wood or sheet metal to put on top of the inner cover,with a hole in it for the discharge tube.


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## dekster (Jun 26, 2019)

crofter said:


> I dont think it necessary to change the base; Just have a 6" or so square of thin ply wood or sheet metal to put on top of the inner cover,with a hole in it for the discharge tube.


Wouldn't that also allow the use of regular vaporizer with side discharge tube? It would be possible to insert it at a slight angle through a small hole in plywood/sheet metal at the feeder or inner cover. 
Does vaporizer have to stay level or can it be tilted let say 15-20deg? I would love to vaporize through the top and bottom holes without buying another vaporizer...


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

dekster said:


> Wouldn't that also allow the use of regular vaporizer with side discharge tube? It would be possible to insert it at a slight angle through a small hole in plywood/sheet metal at the feeder or inner cover.
> Does vaporizer have to stay level or can it be tilted let say 15-20deg? I would love to vaporize through the top and bottom holes without buying another vaporizer...


How much tipping allowable would be controlled by where the inner end of the discharge pipe is. In Biermann's regular unit it is high on the rear wall so you could tip it vertical and it would still work. It justs complicates the issue of being able to invert the unit so the charge dumps out of the cap to initiate boiloff which can take place with the discharge pipe safely inside the colony. I have not seen video of the bottom discharge unit being used through a top cover. 

There is a thread here where someone uses a lift ring with a plexi cover on top of the colony and injects through a hole in its side. Looks entirely effective and convincing.


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## dekster (Jun 26, 2019)

crofter said:


> How much tipping allowable would be controlled by where the inner end of the discharge pipe is. In Biermann's regular unit it is high on the rear wall so you could tip it vertical and it would still work. It justs complicates the issue of being able to invert the unit so the charge dumps out of the cap to initiate boiloff which can take place with the discharge pipe safely inside the colony. I have not seen video of the bottom discharge unit being used through a top cover.
> 
> There is a thread here where someone uses a lift ring with a plexi cover on top of the colony and injects through a hole in its side. Looks entirely effective and convincing.


Yes, makes sense. I use Joerg's vaporizer where the tube end is high enough, but you are right about inverting the unit, I have to try and see if it is physically possible.
I have seen the video with plexiglass and I believe his conclusion was that vapor distributes more evenly when performed from the top, that is why I'm looking at this option. I want to be able to do it via inner cover as my hives are insulated in winter/spring and it would not be possible to vaporizer via side hole in the upper box/inner cover. 
Then again, I don't know if it is a good idea to blast OA directly into the bee cluster that would be centered underneath the inner cover hole at that time of year, maybe bottom hole would be safer approach...


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## Biermann (May 31, 2015)

dekster said:


> Yes, makes sense. I use Joerg's vaporizer where the tube end is high enough, but you are right about inverting the unit, I have to try and see if it is physically possible.
> I have seen the video with plexiglass and I believe his conclusion was that vapor distributes more evenly when performed from the top, that is why I'm looking at this option. I want to be able to do it via inner cover as my hives are insulated in winter/spring and it would not be possible to vaporizer via side hole in the upper box/inner cover.
> Then again, I don't know if it is a good idea to blast OA directly into the bee cluster that would be centered underneath the inner cover hole at that time of year, maybe bottom hole would be safer approach...


My 2 cents worth: having the bowl tipped up or down up to 30-45° should actually work better since the OA contacts the wall better, where the heat band is. If it falls on the bottom, the heat has to move from the wall to the bottom and it delays vaporization slightly.


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## Biermann (May 31, 2015)

Hello All, I am getting into the the predicament as johno, what started as a hobby being fun turned in to a business with lots of headaches. So, I decided to only build the unit from late August to late March.

I have about 20 left to sell and then it is late summer/fall for new production.

Cheers, JoergK.


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## dekster (Jun 26, 2019)

I have built plexiglass inner covers over the winter and put one on the hive this week. I applied OAV from the bottom and saw very little vapor reach the inner cover, like barely visible instead of expected cloud of smoke. There was lots of it at the bottom seeping through all the holes, but not at the top. Next time I will drill a hole in the inner cover rim and try it that way, but have to wait until insulation comes off the hives.


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## Biermann (May 31, 2015)

Hello dekster,

You got #20-080. 

How do you treat, through the bottom entrance? I treated my hives yesterday for the third time, 4 days apart and had 'puff' coming out under the top cover. I treat from behind, the bottom of the second box. I also don't know, clearly, how the OAV works, I feel if it is 'layered' over frames & bees, it will be moved by the bees, but I am not sure. All I know is: since I do my still OAV, I have not lost a hive. I had one last fall that I had called 'dead' and saw bees on a warm day in January fly out and installed syrup on this hive and they are doing good, will open today with 16°C coming today.


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## dekster (Jun 26, 2019)

I have a small hole drilled into the bottom board rim from the back. Normally I close all entrance holes (bottom and top), but since this was insulated hive and I was short on time, I could not do it this time, plus it was very windy, so that may be the reason why vapor did not fill the hive completely. This was a single deep hive.
I will try to do it properly next time when it is warmer and will also try to take a video of what's visible through the plexi inner cover.


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## Rkrauth (Apr 6, 2021)

Do you have anymore vaps available?


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## Rkrauth (Apr 6, 2021)

Biermann said:


> Hello All, I am getting into the the predicament as johno, what started as a hobby being fun turned in to a business with lots of headaches. So, I decided to only build the unit from late August to late March.
> 
> I have about 20 left to sell and then it is late summer/fall for new production.
> 
> Cheers, JoergK.


Do you have any left?


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## Biermann (May 31, 2015)

Rkrauth said:


> Do you have any left?


Yes, four at this time, email to [email protected]


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## Biermann (May 31, 2015)

I am out of Vaporizers now until fall. Getting supplies lined up between now and late August to start building after harvest, probably early September.

Thank you to the many that bought my units, it has been fun. 

Cheers to you all and habee summer times and a bountiful crop.

JoergK.


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## dekster (Jun 26, 2019)

dekster said:


> I have a small hole drilled into the bottom board rim from the back. Normally I close all entrance holes (bottom and top), but since this was insulated hive and I was short on time, I could not do it this time, plus it was very windy, so that may be the reason why vapor did not fill the hive completely. This was a single deep hive.
> I will try to do it properly next time when it is warmer and will also try to take a video of what's visible through the plexi inner cover.


OK, today I have done another round of OA on broodless hives and observed the one with plexiglass inner cover. This time I had all entrances sealed and applied OA though the hole in the bottom board- 3g for a double box and there was almost no sign of vapor reaching the inner cover, maybe a couple of wisps, but bees did not even notice it. I tried to take a video, but there is really nothing to see in it... The I applied OA through the tope entrance and this time I could see lots of vapor at the top and also seeping through the bottom cracks. I think I am going to switch to top OA application from now as it seems that OA is too heavy to be applied from the bottom...


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

dekster said:


> OK, today I have done another round of OA on broodless hives and observed the one with plexiglass inner cover. This time I had all entrances sealed and applied OA though the hole in the bottom board- 3g for a double box and there was almost no sign of vapor reaching the inner cover, maybe a couple of wisps, but bees did not even notice it. I tried to take a video, but there is really nothing to see in it... The I applied OA through the tope entrance and this time I could see lots of vapor at the top and also seeping through the bottom cracks. I think I am going to switch to top OA application from now as it seems that OA is too heavy to be applied from the bottom...


I vape from the bottom, but I prop up the telescoping cover so the OA can flow easier. I am still using two grams per double and one and a half for singles.

Alex


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## Biermann (May 31, 2015)

Hello All,

The distribution through the hive is helped or hampered by many things. Hive population, density of cavities (number of frames) through the hive for upward (or downward) movement of the vapor (that actually is not a vapor as it relates to the OA), the temperature in the hive and around the cluster (if there is one).

Every situation is different, I treat from the back in March/April and October and have the 1/4" holes in the bottom of the top box, right where the open area inside is. I see vapor (that is the H2O part of the OA treatment) coming out everywhere.

One has to find what works for him or her and the setup you run and stick with it.

The crystals are also moved around by the bees, I believe, but can't give proof of this. All I know is that my hives are free of mites after I do a treatment on two brood boxes with 3 gram 4 days apart for 7 times = 28 days.


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## dekster (Jun 26, 2019)

Just to share with anyone who would want to use this vaporizer in cordless mode (no power, remote yard, etc) - I have bought a small portable (and very light) 300W power station for $230CAD like this one (there are many others similar to it): 


https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B093SMSWZQ?ref_=pe_1162070_123184310_dpLink



It was able to run Joerg's vaporizer for an hour and allowed me treat my 14 hives and still had half of the capacity remaining. I have done it twice now and can confirm that it is working perfectly well (it is slightly slower than AC power as power draw seems to be capped at 240W while plugged into the wall it draws 255W). Anyway, I'm very happy with this upgrade as now I don't need to drag multiple extension cords all over the yard on wet grass in the morning...


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## Biermann (May 31, 2015)

Hello dekster,

thank you for your comments & link. This is more money then a normal inverter, but it makes sense if it works.

I am on grit power, so can't say much to the inverter powering, just have done some trials, but with a 1000 watt unit. 

Does the control light go on with your unit when switched-on? I have heard comments that it doesn't because it (LED in the switch) is powered with fractional wattage over the ground lead.


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## dekster (Jun 26, 2019)

Hi Joerg, no the power button light does not work, but otherwise it works just as fine. I'm on the grid too, but hives are all around the perimeter of the property and requires my to move the extension cords 4 times at least and that was becoming too much hassle, so I was looking for something that would allow me full mobility. Yes, the cost is a bit high, but then again I can use it for other purposes when needed, so I manage to convince the wife that it is something "we" need


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## Biermann (May 31, 2015)

Dekster, you are a smart man. Convincing the wife is a smart move!


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## dekster (Jun 26, 2019)

Hi Joerg,

With the new season approaching and reading about some of the recent recommendations to increase the amount of OA per box, I was wondering if there is a way to increase the capacity of the silicone caps? Right now they seem to hold about 2g of OA, maybe more if I add a scoop on top. What tools can be used on silicone to increase the cavity? Sharp knife or is there a better way? Thanks!


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## Biermann (May 31, 2015)

Hello dekster, what color cup do you have, white or orange? I have used Forstner drill bids to open the red plugs since they where to small from the factory. I have never opened the white plugs. All plugs I sent have cavities large enough to hold min. 3 gram.

First, use a leftover piece of 2x4 and drill one or several holes 1 3/8" to securely hold the plug(s). Push them in so they are flush on the opening side and run the Forstner bid fast to mill the hole. Don't go to deep or you have a cylinder (but it would hold lots of OA  ). I have frozen them to -20°C, but it didn't make much of a difference when drilling.

Hope this helps.


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## dekster (Jun 26, 2019)

Thanks, I will try it! I have both red and white plugs, but I believe they both have the same diameter cavity. I'm not fully sold on the larger OAV amount per box, but I want to be ready if the consensus swings that way.


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## dekster (Jun 26, 2019)

Just to update -I ended up using a very sharp hobby knife with a narrow blade and cut/shaved the sides of the cavity by about 3-4mm all around the plug and now I can easily fit 4g of OA in the caps. Also when vaporizing now (with 3-4g) I'm definitely seeing the vapor escaping through the cracks at the top (while with 2g it was less obvious), so I know that enough of vapor is getting to the top of the second box now.


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