# Winter confusion :)



## WWW

Just having the wind break will be a big advantage however it wouldn't hurt to wrap the hives as well. The temperatures here in my area are about the same as yours and I use a light winter wrap that has 4 layers of thin insulation and a black plastic outer covering, this wrap has worked well for me. http://www.bbhoneyfarms.com/store/c-58-beehive-winter-packing I would recommend getting the three deep wrap as it gives you more height to work with.


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## suzyq

Checked out the website on the winter wrap and they are all sold out on the wraps unless you are buying in bulk. Will be saving that website to get a jump on it for next winter.


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## mgolden

A low cost alternative is to place some building insulation in black plastic garbage bags. Make up four of them and place them around the perimeter of the hive. I wouldn't take the wrap over the top of the hive as I think one would be trapping too much moisture. This is not my hives but found it interesting and will work until you can purchase insulated wraps.









In the pic they intend to add a pillow in the front and in the back.

Don't neglect adding a top entrance for ventilation and insulation overhead.


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## Demslander

Suzyq,
I am in MN and i just wrapped up my hives this past weekend. I also have mine in an enclosed fence so I hung up tin siding around the fence as a wind break. However, on the south side I used thick painting plastic to act as a "window" to allow sunlight to hit the hives. I also, wrapped my hives with bee cozy wraps http://nodglobal.com/bee-cozies/, however, I got my from a local guy that costed me quite a bit less. I think Mann Lake sells something similar. I also added a quilt box to the top of my hive to help with insulation. Hope this helps. 

-Demslander


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## jcolon

Consider that most of the wrapping is more for you than for the bees. Especially if you have a thick snow blanket.


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## WWW

jcolon said:


> Consider that most of the wrapping is more for you than for the bees. Especially if you have a thick snow blanket.


Depends on how far north you are located and how strong the hive is, I won't be of spending money on my hives as a feel good measure for myself, if the hives didn't need the wraps I wouldn't have bought them .


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## mgolden

I wonder if those that discourage insulation have ever tried it. 

For me, there is a bigger spring hive population and an earlier and larger brooding. The hive is up to nectar flow population before the flow. I need to pull off NUCs to keep population under control. 

I suggest err on the side of caution and experience the results.


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## Maddy

Last winter's Polar Bomb left us with sub-zero temps for the better part of a week. 
Being as our Top Bar Hives were e-bay kits of 1" pine, and our colony only 1 season in, as new beeks, we were very concerned about keeping our girls warm. I mean, we NAMED every one of that first colony...("Bea is such a pretty name, and if George Forman could name all his kids, "George," we figured we could name all the girls "Bea" :lpf: )
We were so worried, we bought flat terrarium heaters and strapped them under the hives, with a board under them, and installed Temp and Humidity sensors.
We also wrapped the TBH with blankets and insulated tarps, which remained on until Spring.

The bees stayed warm, but we had a die out, which to the best of our uneducated observations appears to have been starvation.
We still are debating if the insulation and heating made them too active in the hive, leading to them eating all their stores and starving (we still have not harvested any honey, except those combs gracelessly destroyed during inspections, when the girls have them cross-combed into bricks...Delicious, but guilt ridden...)

1 inch pine is not a log, for sure.
I've read some beeks say "the bees will survive or they won't." While that is one way to not mourn too hard over the loss of a colony, at $125 a box, it's not something one actively adopts as a strategy - hence the terrarium heaters.

We just finished wrapping our one remaining colony that was a captured swarm. Being in their first year in the hive, they are low on winter stores, giant cross comb block or no.
While I can well understand large scale reluctance to wrap and insulate and heat (!) hives, as a garden-hive beek, I still worry.
I am hoping to try building my lang boxes next year from two by stock, with standard Lang dimensions for the insides, to take commercial frames from MannLake.

I know some of you have had hundreds, if not thousands of hives winter over. 
If you would please share your thoughts on dealing with Winter in thin hive boxes, and whether supplemental heat may cause excessive activity/stores consumption.

I've thought of knitting a gazillion tiny little house socks for the "Bea's," but I'm sure that like most kids, they'd never put them on...
~M


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## mgolden

I winter in two deeps and try to have top deep full of honey. I also fall feed maybe 500mLs per week to preserve honey stores and allow bees to store some syrup.

Insulation keeps temp somewhat higher than ambient when it's -40F and moderates the rate of change of temp. Internal hive temp is slower to cool down and slower to warm up with some insulation on side walls.

I also make sugar blocks available on top of frames from Dec till spring. Think they stretch out honey stores and provide a food supply if by chance bees got stranded on empty comb. Spend around $5 per hive for sugar, makes me feel useful, and view it as cheap insurance(packages here were $200 last spring).


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## enjambres

SuzyQ:

I am in northern NY, here's what I do:

1) Make sure my hives are as free of varroa as possible;

2) Make sure they weigh enough to anticipate good wintering in my area (that's at least 120 lbs, preferably approaching 140, counting woodenware, frames, honey and bees);

3) Place feeding shim on top of the upper most box, even if my hives are up to weight, just in case (make sugar bricks and purchase winter patties to have on hand);

4) Make sure they have mouse guards on every entrance and all entrances reduced to about 1/2 inch wide;

5) Establish an upper entrance if the hive wasn't using one over the summer;

6) Quilt boxes with open ventilation on top on every hive (I have Langs, but I stole this idea from the Warre tribe, though mine are somewhat different);

7) Two inches of foam insulation between the stacks and four inches on the exposed sides and back, and three inches on the front, all tightly secured wit ratchet straps=t;

I don't really pay much attention to a windbreak as my hives are placed in front of a dense evergreen shelter belt planting which is on the upwind side.

I do some other small things to provide wind protection, but those are the main things. It's not too late to do any of them, with the exception of feeding to get more weight in the hive. If your hives are light, you can just start feeding dry sugar as soon as you can't get syrup in them any more, which should happen any week now.

So far I've had excellent success, without any winter losses.

I am amused by the folks from down south who don't think insulation/wrapping is worth the effort. If I lived there I wouldn't do it, either. 

Enj.


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## jadebees

Tar paper, the #30 heavier one, is a good wrap. Cheap, and allows condensation to escape. I use a piece of foam sheet under the roof, right on the inner cover. Styro foam works, the foam with the foil outside, (urethane) has higher insulation value, and they dont chew it, unlike styrofoam. If you do use styro, a square of foil over the inner cover hole keeps bored bees from sprinkling the combs with shredded foam. I use 1 1/2 or 2" thick foam, It seems to make a big difference.


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## suzyq

I really appreciate all the advice. I am sorting it out and plan to go to Lowes tomorrow. I have 2 hives and they have a shed behind them, trees to the left of them and across the yard tall pines so they are pretty protected by the wind. I added an upper entrance recently and wrapped my fence the hives are in. I have Warre hives so I have a quilt box and also added mouse guards. I had purchased Styrofoam but sorely miscalculated on the sheet for my cuts. Apparently my measuring skills are not up to par so I am thinking tar paper but have never used it. Would love some information on how to wrap the hives. Jadbees or anyone else who has done that. 
Maddy I love that you named your bees. From what I have learned if the bees are healthy going into winter they will not die from the cold. I also wondered if you made it so warm inside the hive that they ate through all the honey early. Were the bees in the comb with their butts sticking out? A sign of starvation. One inch thickness is standard in hives. I would consider this winter limiting what all you do to keep them warm. Maybe just wrap them. Would love to hear others opinions too. Praying all your Bea's make it safely through winter


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## Maddy

No, Suzy, they were all dead on the bottom of the hive, and the combs were all empty. 
It was the saddest thing I had ever seen, and very discouraging. But we had a swarm appear 3 days prior, the first of 3, and so Life goes on.
~M


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## WWW

suzyq said:


> Would love to hear others opinions too. Praying all your Bea's make it safely through winter


Suzyq, yes one can keep a hive too warm inside resulting in negative effects, if I were to use Bee Cozy for wraps my hives would be much too warm however in colder climates further North the Bee Cozy wraps work great.

For my hives I place Styrofoam under the outer top cover to help prevent condensation above the colony and use a shim filled with wood chips below the inner cover, this shim has a 3/4" hole drilled through the front for ventilation.

The wraps are then tied on with cheap dollar store string and the entrance is screened with 1/2" x 1/2" hardware cloth, I also place a cover over the landing board area to prevent snow build up from blocking the smaller reduced entrance.

With a full deep of honey in the top box the bees are ready for winter, I start keeping a closer eye on the hives beginning January and if I see a good amount of bees above the top frames I will add a sugar brick to that hive for insurance as mgoldened mentioned .


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## jadebees

Suzyq, the technique for tar paper wrapping that I do is very basic. Remember, you have to get it off when days are warmer, and it always annoys the bees. So, suit up, the bees are not impressed with our efforts on their behalf. Be careful, its easy to mis align the boxes if pushing..I roll about 5 to 6 feet off the roll of paper. Stand it next to the hive and cut off to the quilt or box top height. Loosely center your piece on the front, right to the ground, and cut an opening for the entry. Put a few staples around the entry. Let the landing board stick out ,and just wrap it around the whole box hive stapling the back overlap. Be careful to leave the entry open, and place the roof back on. The top is open. Not too many staples, you need to reverse the procedure in 3 - 4 months at most. Thats it, you can trim the base, but I like to leave it ground level, as it is a wind break for under the floor. You can place mouse guards or entry reducers. Foam or other insulation, or feeders/ shims/sugar blocks can still be used. I use a Lang style inner cover in winter, right over the topbars. With that, & foam the quilt is not needed here in winter. But its dry here a lot in winter. And cold, 6800 ft. elevation.


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## suzyq

Maddy I lost my first year hive at the tail end of winter and because of that am trying a few different things this winter. Got to keep learning.  Put my tar paper on yesterday but used tac pins and push pins instead of staples. Figure it will be easier to remove. Used Styrofoam last year and it was a pain. Thanks for all the good advice. Really appreciate it.


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## aunt betty

Langstroth hives are roughly 20 x 16. (inches)
20+20+16+16=72
I cut my pieces 75 inches long and have a tad extra. The extra is helpful when there are exterior handles screwed on. 
The material I use is called Reflectix. Comes in 25 or 100' rolls. Do some math and you'll see that 75" works out where there is zero waste. Good luck with your wintering hives.


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## Joel

If you don't have electric on the fence with Bacon as yet, now is the time. Although bears are headed in for the winter at this point, with the prediction of a warm winter, they may linger or get an early start in February when a bear fence is the farthest thing from your mind. Don't need anything fancy, we run 2 wires (actually the plastic yellow and white stuff) at 8" and 18 " on fiberglass posts, muslin dipped in bacon grease, one on each side and yellow jacket chargers.


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