# Where and how to store drawn comb



## Tibbigt

Hi guys looking for advice on how to store drawn comb? I am trying to get my bees to draw all my frames out so it's easier on them next yr. and just found out they can't just be stored due to pests. I figured mice would be an issue which I'm not worried about. 

What do other do with their drawn frames after removing from the hive?


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## squarepeg

putting them in a freezer is a good way to protect them from pests if you have the room.

during winter in your part of the country they can be kept outside and closed off to prevent mice from getting in.

i'm a little unconventional in that i put my supers back on the hives after extracting and allow the bees protect them year round.

the drawback with this is it creates a lot of unused space for the bees to protect but so far i haven't had issues with pests, save one exception when wax moths infested a hive that had gone queenless and dwindled before i realized it.

i am in small hive beetle country so i keep a beetle blaster trap in every box and so far i haven't had a problem with them.

bt aizawai is useful for protecting stored frames from wax moths. i use it on frames of drawn comb that i put in my swarm traps and so far so good with that.


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## Tibbigt

I am looking into a freezer right now. Anyone else with ideas or what works for u? Thanks for the input


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## gww

Squarepeg
Do you store your empty comb on top of the hives below the inner cover and does it get below freezing for any extended periods where you are?
Thanks
gww


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## squarepeg

yes gww, the empty drawn comb (extracted supers) are placed at the top of the stack. 

it wouldn't hurt to have one at the bottom like walt wright use to do, but i'm too lazy to put one down there and then have to bring it back up. 

i've built up enough drawn comb such that each hive will have about 4 medium supers above a single deep with the top 2 supers being pretty much empty going into winter.

this empty comb will be used for checkerboarding and opening up the brood nest starting in late february.

the average temperature here in the coldest part of winter is about 40. we typically have some cold spells where we might stay below freezing for a few days at the most.


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## SDiver40

I have had good luck freezing the frames, then placing them in large Tupperware bins. Seal them tight and store in a shed.


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## gww

Square
Thanks for answering my question. I like the ideal but think we might be just cold enough that it might not work where I am. It probly would work if I put them on the bottom. I still got another year before I have enough drawn comb to worry about and so have time to think on it.
Thanks
gww


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## Scott Gough

Squarepeg, That is an interesting way to store supers. I have not heard of anyone in our bee club around here, in northern Missouri, doing that. That would be much more convenient than trying to find space in the garage. 

I have always just waited until after the first frost and brought them into the garage. Waiting until after the first frost hopefully eliminates the wax moth possibility. The garage is attached to the house with a concrete floor. I usually stack them on the floor 7 or 8 high and put a screened board on top. I have not had a problem doing this, it just takes up space and I have to move them.


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## BlueRidgeBee

I had good success last winter freezing the whole dry super 48 hrs, making sure they were nice and dry after thawing (fan and dehumidifier in my workshop) then put each super in a CLEAR lawn/leaf plastic garbage bags with desiccant pack made from silica cat litter stapled in a paper towel. The packs were about fist sized. 

The desiccant prevented any mold and the clear individual bags were easy to spot check without opening. There was one where a survivor moth appeared inside so I popped the whole thing back in and out of the freezer and had no damage to comb. 

Because my storage area in the basement can have humidity issues during wet weather, the desiccant packs have been great and prevented mold on the comb which I had one winter before I used them.


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## lharder

I have all mediums and also make lots of nucs. Extracted comb gets given to the nucs so they don't have to work so hard building up. 

I haven't had lots of comb to store over winter so far.


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## WD9N

I am in Illinois, about the latitude of St. Louis. I use paramoth drawers. You just stack the boxes with frames inside and add a drawer with moth crystals about every five or so boxes.

I place a pallet down, place a piece of 1/2" ply on top, then stack the boxes on that. About five boxes high and you place a drawer on with moth crystals. You could stack as high as you want, just add a drawer about every fifth box. If you have any gaps between boxes, you can use duct tape to close them off. You do have to add crystals periodically, more frequently the warmer it gets.

When you need a box of frames, you do have to let them air, I usually get them out and allow 24hrs to air.

Dadant Paramoth Drawer, other suppliers also sell these.


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## drummerboy

Scott Gough said:


> Squarepeg, That is an interesting way to store supers. I have not heard of anyone in our bee club around here, in northern Missouri, doing that. That would be much more convenient than trying to find space in the garage.
> 
> I have always just waited until after the first frost and brought them into the garage. Waiting until after the first frost hopefully eliminates the wax moth possibility. The garage is attached to the house with a concrete floor. I usually stack them on the floor 7 or 8 high and put a screened board on top. I have not had a problem doing this, it just takes up space and I have to move them.


We've always done the same, making sure both 'bottom and top' are protected from pests. Since we can get winter temps well below zero, we've had few if any issues storing supers with drawn comb over winter.


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## cornbred

WD9N said:


> I am in Illinois, about the latitude of St. Louis. I use paramoth drawers. You just stack the boxes with frames inside and add a drawer with moth crystals about every five or so boxes.
> 
> I place a pallet down, place a piece of 1/2" ply on top, then stack the boxes on that. About five boxes high and you place a drawer on with moth crystals. You could stack as high as you want, just add a drawer about every fifth box. If you have any gaps between boxes, you can use duct tape to close them off. You do have to add crystals periodically, more frequently the warmer it gets.
> 
> When you need a box of frames, you do have to let them air, I usually get them out and allow 24hrs to air.
> 
> Dadant Paramoth Drawer, other suppliers also sell these.


Was going to try this method this year. Question, do you enclose the top of the supers with a piece of plywood also?


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## Hoot Owl Lane Bees

I built racks to hold my frames on.
After freezing for several days the frames are placed on the racks.
Each rack holds 25 frames and then they are placed on a shelf unit that holds multiple racks and are stored in my open air wood shed .
I have 4 shelf units full and I will be making more to hold frames as they are built and foundation installed.
This way I can make up a box how I want it when I need it in just several minutes.

Sorry but it is side ways.


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## Scott Gough

cornbred said:


> Was going to try this method this year. Question, do you enclose the top of the supers with a piece of plywood also?


Yes. I close the top with a board, extra top cover, or political sign.


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## snl

Spray with BT and store them in their boxes. Easy and effective.


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## Jadeguppy

Will wax moths and pests get in them if the lid is left off to allow light in? I don't have the advantage of freezing weather and it is humid here. This is the first year I've needed to store comb.


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## Kenww

Is storing them on top of the hive a problem in colder areas? I wonder if the cluster might move up above the stores and starve?


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## DeepCreek

Freezer for 2 or 3 days and then in a pest-proof screened cabinet I built. Sufficient for my 25 hives, but as I continue to grow I'll have to look at other options.


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## FlowerPlanter

Hoot Owl Lane Bees said:


> I built racks to hold my frames on.
> After freezing for several days the frames are placed on the racks.
> Each rack holds 25 frames and then they are placed on a shelf unit that holds multiple racks and are stored in my open air wood shed .
> I have 4 shelf units full and I will be making more to hold frames as they are built and foundation installed.
> This way I can make up a box how I want it when I need it in just several minutes.
> 
> Sorry but it is side ways.
> 
> View attachment 35994


Nice!!!


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## beenoob

I'm struggling storing mine as well. I have 30 boxes at this point and not sure how to handle it. What I have been doing is putting 3 boxes in the freezer at a time for 24 hours, take them out and just leave them open air in my garage. I will just continue rotating all 30 until we get freezing weather then move under the lean to with a top cover and let it freeze through winter.


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## snl

Research BT. Spray it on and you’re done with wax moths.


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## Jadeguppy

Other than wax moths, what other pests need taken into consideration?


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## 1102009

I check once a week, i have empty comb, dry, empty comb extracted, brood comb with honey domes from deadouts, capped honey frames for feeding, frames with honey filled starter stripes from cutting out comb.
The wax moth used no dry comb so far.
Whenever I see eggs or web I put the frame in my freezer which holds 6 frames. Take out after 24 hours and store again. Holds this at bay.
I have a bait sticky paper with pheromones which baits other moths, which also use comb sometimes.
In winter if there is frost I put the combs into boxes and on the outdoors and back.

I plan to make a bait trap for them next year using old pollen brood comb pieces. Check every day and feed the larva to my chicken. These I could use as swarm bait too.
Much work, but it´s ok with + -12 hives.


If bees have access to honey wet comb, it spreads AFB and EFB if there is any. I never move combs between my bee yards. Mark them, store them separately.


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## Hoot Owl Lane Bees

I find that the bees clean the frames very well hanging on the racks/shelving.
We pulled a few out of swarm traps yesterday that had some wax mouth damage and the bees were checking them out right away.
This also helps me know how many new frames I need to assemble over winter.


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## rwurster

I store mine out in the open all year long. All drawn frames sit on two 8 foot two by 4s nailed across two saw horses. There's plenty of air movement and indirect sunlight where they sit in a shed with no walls. I space the frames so they are about 3/4 inch apart and have only had light wax moth damage once when two frames got pushed together and left together. If theres pollen in a frame from a dead out I set the frame in a tilted up super and let the mice get rid of it. They only eat the pollen and take the comb down to the midrib which the bees rebuild. I also use this set up for letting bees rob frames from dead outs or wet frames from extracting with no issues. I don't worry about mice or wax moths but I did have a skunk come through and destroy 30 frames of drawn comb. Skunks and racoons are the only nuisances to me but if there's no honey or pollen left in frames they tend to leave them alone. No chemicals needed  And the bees have no problem cleaning them and fixing them when I put them into a hive later.


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## Jadeguppy

Rwu, what is the weather like in your area?


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## gww

I wonder why nobody uses sulfer strips to fumagate their empty comb much anymore? It seems like it would be a pretty easy solution for those that don't really have freezer space. I am guessing that the reason is because BT is even easier and gives no toxic fumes. I read on bee scorce where they have all thier helpful articals of how to use it but never see it mentioned any more.
Just curious
gww


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## rwurster

The weather here is typically very dry, fairly hot in the summer 100+ F, fairly cold in the winter -15 F. We've had some freezes but we haven't turned into an ice box yet, it typically snows by Halloween.


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## propet12

snl said:


> Spray with BT and store them in their boxes. Easy and effective.


SNL knows - this works for me too. Use Xentari - you can order from Amazon. Enough comes in one pouch to treat a whole bee club's super frames. Spray through a garden sprayer on both side of your frames.


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## laketrout

BT users how dry do you have to get the frames after spraying usally by the time I get supers off its getting cold and not many real hot sunny days to get the solution to air dry so they dont get mold on them .I do store my supers on a vented 2x4 stand with screened holes for air circulation but there stored inside a heated pole barn now as I had a bear enter my open lean- to this spring and he got a couple supers and made a mess .


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## missybee

We have a chest freezer just for the bees, it cools to -10f. It holds around 50 or so frames (have not counted) I freeze them, then either place back in the hive boxes, stacked up with the top having a piece of door screen over it. Keeps any new wax moths from arriving. 

Or I put them in some clear containers picked up at walmart, they hold 16 medium frames. Again place door screen over the top. Keeps them from molding up. We can have a humid warm winter, cold freezing winter. I keep the frames in a room in our basement. 

I have managed to get a good amount of drawn super comb doing this for the past three years. And some extra brood comb.

Have never had wax moth issues taking care of the frames this way.

I have used BT for brood comb in a swarm trap, the moths did not damage it. 

If used on the super combs, I would need to make sure they really dried we do get mold on anything left damp.


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## snl

laketrout said:


> BT users how dry do you have to get the frames after spraying usally by the time I get supers off its getting cold and not many real hot sunny days to get the solution to air dry so they dont get mold on them


You're only lightly misting them........... they dry quickly...........


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## propet12

I don't dry the frames. I put the extracted, empty frames back in the boxes wet with both honey and BT; stack the boxes in rows and cover the stacks with upside down telescoping hive covers in an outside, unheated barn. These are stacked right on the floor, no ventilation at all, don't want rodents in the boxes either. Never had a problem with mold. Gets plenty cold here in winter so maybe that's why never had a problem with mold. Sometimes moths still do a very little damage on a few frames before dying from BT, but nothing the bees can't clean up and fix in minimal time. No destroyed frames like I had before using the BT. I store over 1000 frames every winter. The bees jump all over the wet frames in the spring and fill them back up. I wouldn't want to dry them out. The honey does ferment here and there a little with the additional moisture from the BT, the bees don't care.

I don't spray BT on anything extracted after late October; those just get stacked wet with honey and covered in unheated barn. The cold nights take care of the moths/larvae/eggs by that time. I sometimes remove the covers from the stacked boxes in late winter to air them out a little before putting them back on the hives in spring.


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## Bee Arthur

As the number of frames I need to store increases, I've had to look beyond the freezer. So this year I built a rack that should be able to hold at least 100 frames (more if I decrease space between frames).

I spritz them with Bt and leave some air space between them. So far so good. If this proves effective, I'll probably just build more racks as needed.


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## missybee

Bee Arthur said:


> As the number of frames I need to store increases, I've had to look beyond the freezer. So this year I built a rack that should be able to hold at least 100 frames (more if I decrease space between frames).
> 
> I spritz them with Bt and leave some air space between them. So far so good. If this proves effective, I'll probably just build more racks as needed.
> 
> View attachment 36167



What keeps the bees from damaging the comb? Any frames I have left outside for more than a few hours gets chewed ragged by the bees. Even if there is no honey in them.


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## beepro

I use the same frame cardboard boxes coming from the seller when I
order my frames. After mixing the essential oil in melted wax the frames go inside
these boxes and then tightly sealed with packaging tapes. Of course I have to freeze the
frames that got wax moths larvae damaged in them first. So far so good with only one damaged
drawn frame. The clean new drawn frames without any pollen can be stored outside without using any box or essential wax oil.


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## Bee Arthur

missybee said:


> What keeps the bees from damaging the comb? Any frames I have left outside for more than a few hours gets chewed ragged by the bees. Even if there is no honey in them.


Yeah, they do chew up the comb anywhere there's some leftover honey/nectar, but the damage is pretty easy for them to repair next year and isn't as bad as having a slime-out or wax moth infestation. When that happens the comb is a total loss for me, so a little bee/wasp chewing is okay in my book.

Also, I just noticed this is the treatment free forum, so I'll say this...while I do still use Bt as a precaution, I suspect that if this open storage proves effective, I'll be able to do it without the Bt.


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## squarepeg

i just brought in a couple of swarm traps have been set out since last april/may. they had a few frames of empty brood comb in them for 'bait', and this is the one circumstance for which i use bt.

the bt i have was purchased from a member (sundance i think) here on beesource several years ago. i've kept it in the freezer all along and have only used a little bit of it. i use a heaping half teaspoon per quart of water.

so after 5 - 6 months in the swarm traps the bt appears to have been effective as there is no wax moth damage on any of the brood combs.


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## roddo27846

snl said:


> Spray with BT and store them in their boxes. Easy and effective.


What is BT?


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## squarepeg

roddo27846 said:


> What is BT?


http://cookevillebeekeepers.com/08/bt-for-comb-storage


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## snl

SP, you have some bad links in your post. Also BT does expire.


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## squarepeg

thanks larry. the link is working for me for some reason.

roddo, try searching for 'bt aizawai'.


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## snl

SP, It works until it gets to the BS link for Sundance.


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## squarepeg

ah, understood.


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## Michael Bush

You can buy it on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/Xentari-XenT...TF8&qid=1511967343&sr=8-1&keywords=bt+aizawai


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## Michael Bush

You can buy it on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/Xentari-XenT...TF8&qid=1511967343&sr=8-1&keywords=bt+aizawai


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## argonlee31

Hoot Owl Lane Bees said:


> I built racks to hold my frames on.
> After freezing for several days the frames are placed on the racks.
> Each rack holds 25 frames and then they are placed on a shelf unit that holds multiple racks and are stored in my open air wood shed .
> I have 4 shelf units full and I will be making more to hold frames as they are built and foundation installed.
> This way I can make up a box how I want it when I need it in just several minutes.
> 
> Sorry but it is side ways.
> 
> View attachment 35994


Will the wax moths stay away from the comb if they are open air like that? I have a horrible problem keeping them out of sealed supers that I store in my barn. I could easily build something like this if it works!


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## sylvester

I know I'm bringing a necro thread back to life here. Sorry about that.

I'm 1st year with just a handful of drawn frames to store but I'm trying to sort out a method that is workable long term as I get more and more. Is open air (after freezing) acceptable for pretty much any temperature range? I live in zone 8b and it can get pretty darn hot in my shop in the summer.

Are there problems with other pests? I.e. ants, roaches, etc that might get into it?


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## johnwratcliff

I use the freezer for a month then put them in a rack that gets lots of air and light.


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## beesRus

johnwratcliff said:


> a rack that gets lots of air and light.


 Simple question, John - Why is light important?

Thanks, Michele


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## johnwratcliff

Wax moth don’t like the light. They look for dark areas.


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