# Question for Keith Jarrett



## TwT (Aug 5, 2004)

I dont remember you ever saying what you do with your hives after almonds, do you take them to other states or not? Keith's always quiet about his operation , he show's more in his photo album than he tells on the forum


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

I think he mostly fills other peoples' empties.


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

That's because he really doesn't exist. We think he exists and he wants us to believe he exists but really now...he could just be the ghost of beekeepers past.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

He spends all summer making pollen pattys for fall.


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## 123456789 (May 24, 2009)

Ya..... and how do you get the caramel in the caramilk bar?


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## Hambone (Mar 17, 2008)

I heard he spends his off season at a culinary school in Seattle learing how to perfect his creme brulee recipe.


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## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

I thought he just went swimming with his bugatti


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Yep...

I just hang out here on the west coast with the fruits & the nuts. lol

As Tom says, I fill up other folks equipment.


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## TwT (Aug 5, 2004)

Beeslave said:


> I thought he just went swimming with his bugatti


so Keith was in texas on vacation driving his 1.25 million dollar car that he bought with this years almond money


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## TwT (Aug 5, 2004)

Na back on the serious side, Keith so all you do is pollinate almonds and sell off some hives? no honey or stuff like that, is it not worth taking your bee's to the apples in Washington? you know you dont have to answer these if they are to personal :shhhh:


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

TwT said:


> Keith so all you do is pollinate almonds and sell off some hives? no honey or stuff like that, is it not worth taking your bee's to the apples in Washington?


TWT, pollinate & shake bees is where 90% of my income comes from, honey? I'm thinking of doing more of that, but Calif has been tough latley.

If you do the math, BTW, this is where you lose most commercial keepers .

Washington apples? no way on earth would I chase that.


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## irwin harlton (Jan 7, 2005)

What has been thought of as an easy, sustainable , renewable resource(bees) MAY NOT BE SO...Canada usually lags in time from 6 months to 2 years as to what often occurs in the USA,weather it be in the MidUS honey producing states or California.The past few years show higher wintering losses in Canada.There are alot of factors in play in this game , varroa only being one, but probably the biggest


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

irwin harlton said:


> What has been thought of as an easy, sustainable , renewable resource(bees) MAY NOT BE SO...


Irwin, can you expand your thoughts on this.

The one for sure thing I count on in late March/April is bees coming out the wooozooo.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

Look,
Ther's a Wazo Candy Bar!

http://www.candyfavorites.com/Wazoo-Candy-Bar-pr-3674.html?gclid=CIWAy6jHrp4CFSReagod9mcUmQ

Ernie


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

irwin harlton said:


> What has been thought of as an easy, sustainable , renewable resource(bees) MAY NOT BE SO


Irwin, can you expand on this .
Keith


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## Hambone (Mar 17, 2008)

BEES4U said:


> Look,
> Ther's a Wazo Candy Bar!





> Many people have told us where to put this candy bar but we think the best place is in your mouth!!


 

Sounds like KJ didn't like the Wazo and sent them a suggestion.


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## irwin harlton (Jan 7, 2005)

Keith do you think the keepers having problems , producing bees, (you aren't) are failing to do a few things.......or is it just luck,location,genetic's ,I am thinking what your "to do,or must do list" is, control nosema, mites, feed pollen sub up to 6 months in advance, young queens..... what else Keith

and do you have a patent on your sub?......I have been using a little of that CHEAP chinese pollen in my protein patties,what you think?, it is radiation treated but scary.

We certainly haven't be free of problems in Canada, higher losses in the east and in Alberta


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

irwin harlton said:


> Keith do you think the keepers having problems , producing bees, (you aren't) are failing to do a few things.......or is it just luck,location,genetic's ,I am thinking what your "to do,or must do list" is, control nosema, mites, feed pollen sub up to 6 months in advance, young queens..... what else Keith
> and do you have a patent on your sub?.......


Irwin, you make some good points.

First,I do think keepers are having problems, They are failing to do things on TIME. "must do list" yes Irwin, That is a good way of putting it. Nosema can be controled by proper sub feeding. There is no patent on my club, Oh, I meant sub.  

Irwin, most keepers STILL won't feed more than 5 pounds of sub in the fall. I don't see anything changing until they change.

Most of the U.S had below honey crop, and the bees reflect that, go figure.


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## Skinner Apiaries (Sep 1, 2009)

Keith,
Are you saying that fat bees are happy bees? That Happy bees come from California. God. I hope they don't sue me for not paying royalties! 

On a serious note, what amount of sub are you feeding your girls?


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Skinner Apiaries said:


> On a serious note, what amount of sub are you feeding your girls?


Skinner, I feed about 15-20 pounds a year per hive (aug-Jan).

You can look at it as the same price as a queen.

Skinner, I'm finishing my last load of pollen sub feeding tomarrow until the new year, I will post pics of some of the hives and brood.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

so all you do is pollinate almonds and sell off some hives? no honey or stuff like that, is it not worth taking your bee's to the apples in Washington? 
opcorn:

Ernie


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## Countryboy (Feb 15, 2009)

When does he have time for that other stuff? He's busy mixing another batch of sub for out of staters.

You build your business around the most profitable areas in the time constraints you have. Given all the ventures he has mentioned being involved in, I wouldn't think he has time to chase every available beekeeping dollar out there. Grab the most profitable areas, and spend some time with the family.


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## G B (Nov 6, 2009)

Keith Jarrett said:


> TWT, pollinate & shake bees is where 90% of my income comes from, honey? I'm thinking of doing more of that, but Calif has been tough latley.
> 
> If you do the math, BTW, this is where you lose most commercial keepers .
> 
> Washington apples? no way on earth would I chase that.



Hello Keith, I dont quite understand when you said. If you do the math,BTW this is where you lose most commercial keepers.

are you saying that running all over the country is where the beeks run into problems? Hope you dont mind the question from a nubee. thanks George


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

You build your business around the most profitable areas in the time constraints you have. 

Very well stated.

Ernie


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

G B said:


> Hello Keith, I dont quite understand when you said. If you do the math,BTW this is where you lose most commercial keepers.
> Hope you dont mind the question from a nubee. thanks George


GB, when I say "do the math" most keepers don't take the time to do the math. You mention "run all over the county" with my truck & trailered forklift, I charge the bees so much a mile or a yearly minimun rate which ever comes first so that, just because it's paid for, the bees don't use it for free.The same for shop use, the bees pay rent, $2000 a month, if the bees weren't useing it I could have rented it to Tom Smith or however.

GB, what I'm trying to say is run it like a bussiness, If you started a "Bee Truck" thread watch it light up like a chrismas tree, trucks don't make keepers anything, bees do.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Skinner Apiaries said:


> Keith,
> Are you saying that fat bees are happy bees? That Happy bees come from California. On a serious note, what amount of sub are you feeding your girls?


Skinner, took these pics today of avg hives for this yard. 

P.S. yes happy bees and keeper. 

http://s148.photobucket.com/albums/s35/CNHoney/?action=view&current=P1000272.jpg

http://s148.photobucket.com/albums/s35/CNHoney/?action=view&current=P1000273.jpg


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## Skinner Apiaries (Sep 1, 2009)

MONSTER patty man. Is that a before and after?


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

Keith:

Thanks for the things you have helped with in regards to feeding. It makes us (beekeepers in general) think about what we feed the bees. Crappy Feed.... crappy bees basically speaking. 

One thing that is a turn off for the smaller beekeeper is finding the ingredients to put in the patties at a respectable price. I know it means quality bees, yes. I do wish it was a little cheaper for the ingedients for smaller amounts used. 

I guess I should stop cooking for the people and start mixing patties for the bees! lol


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Skinner,

That was the last round before we start in the first of the new year.

P.S. that was only about a 4 pound patty, most of the time it's double that, 4 pounds will get us thrue December.


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## Skinner Apiaries (Sep 1, 2009)

do you put shims on them to get those patties in there?


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## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

Keith,
I noticed you have no feeder inside the hive. Do you feed with buckets or remove frames and install feeders when syrup is needed? Or do you have enough sugar in your patties? Your bees look great BTW.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Beeslave said:


> Keith,
> I noticed you have no feeder inside the hive..


Beeslave, I barrel feed, that yard has about 1000 plus hives in it, I set out about 15 barrels and lete'r rip. You will notice that 60-70% of the bees are in the brood nest, that because when you barrel feed they fill from the bottom up, it works much better & faster than one gallon feeders (you wan't the bees to stay low).

Skinner, the sub is soft, no need for spacer rims.

P.S. Beeslave.... sugar in that patty....... that patty runs 22% protein.


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## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

Thanks Keith. I really didn't think you used pails or removed frames to install a feeder, but at the same time I didn't think you would be feeding bees other than yours. No wonder how you get time to swim in TX.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

Keith,
Regarding

2nd photo in posting # 26:

You probably have more feed in that one application than some people apply all year.
Great photos.
Ernie


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## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

Keith,
When your book "When to, How to, and Why of Commercial Beekeeping" is published I would like the first copy.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

BEES4U said:


> You probably have more feed in that one application than some people apply all year.Ernie


Ernie, probably have more bees in the box than some people do all year.


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

Nutra Bee is safe to use, as long as you don't allow access to rodents. As reported by Hambone, there have been problems with NUTRAS in the Southern US.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

BeeSlave, don't kid yourself, I make plenty of mistakes.

More than once, I've looked at myself in the mirror and thought "that was a dumb ass move.  lol

you have too laugh, because it hurts to much to cry at times.


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## irwin harlton (Jan 7, 2005)

Awesome bees you got Keith, they just might eat a fellow outta house and home.How many times you got fill up those barrels if the weather is nice?


Irwin


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## G B (Nov 6, 2009)

Keith Jarrett said:


> GB, when I say "do the math" most keepers don't take the time to do the math. You mention "run all over the county" with my truck & trailered forklift, I charge the bees so much a mile or a yearly minimun rate which ever comes first so that, just because it's paid for, the bees don't use it for free.The same for shop use, the bees pay rent, $2000 a month, if the bees weren't useing it I could have rented it to Tom Smith or however.
> 
> GB, what I'm trying to say is run it like a bussiness, If you started a "Bee Truck" thread watch it light up like a chrismas tree, trucks don't make keepers anything, bees do.



Thanks for the reply Keith, makes good sense. Thats nice country up there I married a girl from stockton when i was over there farming walnuts. She likes arizona ok but usually offers to divorce :lpf:me a couple times each summer when it get so bloomin hot. thanks again George


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

irwin harlton said:


> .How many times you got fill up those barrels if the weather is nice?
> Irwin


Irwin, about 4 times, Sept 15-Nov 1


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## Hambone (Mar 17, 2008)

Can you feed the guy in the 2nd pic (blue jeans and tennis shoes) some Nutrabee? He looks like he is light on stores and gonna need some winter weight.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Hambone said:


> Can you feed the guy in the 2nd pic (blue jeans and tennis shoes) some Nutrabee? He looks like he is light on stores and gonna need some winter weight.


Believe me, he needs more than that. lol

What can you do Bone. I can crack 3-1 of his hives and he's twenty years younger than me. Needless to say I have the hive tool in my hand and he has the sub.

P.S. lol.. Bone never lets you down.


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## Hambone (Mar 17, 2008)

Keith Jarrett said:


> I can crack 3-1 of his hives and he's twenty years younger than me. Needless to say I have the hive tool in my hand and he has the sub.


Huh...I always pictured Chef as a much bigger man. 



Kidding Chef!!


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## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

Nice pic Keith. How many hive do you run. Has to be the cleanest shop I've seen for that size of operation.
Ron


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

and i keep growing and growing. Used to get taller but now it is the other way! lol


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## JoshJames (Jun 12, 2009)

Keith, back to the pollen patties. I'm assuming you don't have a beetle problem? We could never begin to feed that much pollen sub at a time here in florida....


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

hey Keith...I noticed a good amount of adds for package bees from Australia in the latest ABJ...can't you talk to Arnold about keeping them foreigners out of your business?? :scratch: I have a feeling it is only a matter of time before we start seeing something new we imported. :doh:


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## TwT (Aug 5, 2004)

Keith I see by your location that you are east of the Bay area in the mid to northern section of the valley, do you keep your bee's in a location near you home or do you winter in yards farther south? and is the location of the farm or farms you pollinate for in your area so you dont have to travel bee's? that would be convenient if you do!


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

Ernie, probably have more bees in the box than some people do all year. 

:doh:I left out the other half of my compliment.

Ernie


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

(HH), 2200 hives
(JJ) no beetles here
(Alpha6) very well said
(TWT) bees are 70 mi from house, home is about 50mi east of Sacramento


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## irwin harlton (Jan 7, 2005)

how did you get into the bee buissness, Keith, ( If you don't mind me askin) and are you self taught in the pollensub recipe buissness? I might also guess that you know what you got invested in your research and development and like any good businessman you are going to try and make a buck.......you shouldn't have a problem by the looks of your bees......................wazooooo,thats a little north of Nome and south of the north pole


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## Missoura (Feb 12, 2009)

Alpha6,
I doubt you will see many Aussie packages enter this year. The main reason is price.

Unlike when the import started the U.S. dollar is weak against the Aussie dollar ( and Canada) which is the opposite of when the import started.
At around a 130 U.S. a package sales will be slow. The $30 increase over the first 2005 import packages is mainly due to the weak U.S. dollar against the Aussie.

There is one thing the import did for California package bee sellers. They realized they were ( and had been) selling their packages too cheap.

The best buy this year is the new queen & equipment hives from Bell Honey in Florida.


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## DigitalBishop (Nov 11, 2009)

Kieth,

In photos 31 through 34. What is the metal basin for? Do you dip your hives?


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

The price is already set. $115 per package with queen. Pick up LA. I agree that buying from US people that can fill the demand, including Keith (hence the jest cause this does hurt him and others like him that do a business of selling bees) is the best way to go. I can't understand why we are continuing to allow these importations when we have a supply right here. Lastly, I wouldn't count on getting waved through any check station in Calf. It's alot like nazi germany "I'm sorry but your papers are not in order1"


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

Those packages are sold when there are NO packages available here. The logic is that you may pay $115, but much of that will be reimbursed by the almond check so it is a wash, unlike if you fill your boxes after almonds....
Sheri


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## Missoura (Feb 12, 2009)

Alpha6,
Last season the paperwork was accepted at the bug station. Jerry Hayes has worked out the agreement with Carla.

I do not know of another place other than OZ to get package bees to beef up hives for almonds in December & January. Do you?

i believe my post has sold three semi loads of hives tonight. Possibly two for a beekeeper in Texas wanting to increase and make splits from the hives. One into California. 

I believe if a shortage in California all will be spoken for. 

Which sounds better to you Alpha6.

1. a package of bees and a queen for 115-130

2. A used equipment hive with age of queen unknown and comb which has had fluvalinate & coumaphos used for years from the bee journal. $140-160

3. All new equipment with fully drawn plastic foundation ( Mann Lake or Dadant) in wood frames ( 10 frames) with a 2009 queen ready to go into almonds or split for the same price as the used above. New top & bottom included. No fluvalinate of coumaphos used. $150


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

irwin harlton said:


> how did you get into the bee buissness, Keith, ( If you don't mind me askin) and are you self taught in the pollensub recipe buissness? QUOTE]
> 
> Irwin, I was thrirteen when my bother went off to college and gave me three hives, that was 30 plus years ago.
> 
> ...


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

_To Missoura:_<added by mod>Maybe you are missing my point. I am with you and all those that produce bees for the US consumption that are here in the states and AGAINST importing stuff from Australia. I am glad your post is generating sales for you. I am all for that, but...maybe you need to realize that, in fact, there is a very large business and I know of three importers that bring in bees from Australia and they are available Oct to April. Look in your ABJ, they have full page ads going. So maybe I am from OZ but at least I know what is going on in the business. I suggest you and others start working with the American Honey Producers Association (a great organization I might add) and get some restrictions on the importation of bees from other countries. I think that it is ridicules that Sue Coby has to go through all kinds of hoops to import bee seman to increase the survivability of bees and on the other hand they can come in by the pallet load with an inspection done in their host country (not even inspected in this country).


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

Seems to me that the main benefit is to the almond industry, putting a ceiling on pollination prices and assuring them of an adequate supply. But the impact on the bee industry is not worth considering by the POWERS THAT BE.


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

Amen Tom...unfortunately the Almond Growers are better organized, have more money and better lobbying efforts then us. Hence my plug for the AHPA. We as beekeepers have got to start looking out for our industry before we allow others to dictate every aspect of it from pollination prices, honey prices, etc, etc. From what I learned in school, supply and demand controls price, however by allowing the packers to import cheap honey at 1/16 the cost of US honey it artificially lowers the price US producers can get for their honey. Foreign markets know that if they can low ball prices until they put American producers out of business then they can control the market price when we relay totally on imports. (Economic lesson for the day. Hambone there will be a test later.  )


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## Hambone (Mar 17, 2008)

alpha6 said:


> Hambone there will be a test later.  )


Multiple choice please.


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## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

ture or false its 50/50 that way:banana:

TURE IT IS


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

ture or false its 50/50 that way

How about True minus the False responses.
Have you heard about that kind of test?
or,
Correct the false statement.
LOL
Ernie


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## TwT (Aug 5, 2004)

Keith, in your photo album I see equipments stack and covering one side of that huge shop, Why so much new equipment at one time? are you changing the old out or is this for new hives you start?


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

TwT said:


> Why so much new equipment at one time? are you changing the old out or is this for new hives you start?


TWT, it's a good thing you can't see other half of the shop.

I don't know, if you going put boxes together you mine as well through 4-5 thousand of them together that way you don't have to do it next year, Pluse we dip our boxes in parafin wax so it's nice to only have to clean up once rather than doing little dabs at a time.


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## TwT (Aug 5, 2004)

One more set of questions for Keith, I notice in your pictures that you are still using 10 frame equipment, is it because you have a shop full or are you getting a better price than the 8 frame guys?

Have you ever thought of going to 8 frame equipment?

and is there really a difference in price between 8 frame and 10 frame hives when it comes to pollination?

and I noticed all your boxes seem to be deeps, do you use any other sizes?


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

TwT said:


> that you are still using 10 frame equipment, is it because you have a shop full or are you getting a better price than the 8 frame guys?


I use ten's because it's the most efficient way to run bees on a large scale.


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## Skinner Apiaries (Sep 1, 2009)

Keith. I made that same concluson based only on what I could buy used, as most of it was tens, and alot of the cheaper gear I can buy new is also tens. Why/how did you reach this conclusion about it being most efficient on scale?


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## cow pollinater (Dec 5, 2007)

Alright guys, now that we've got him running his mouth it's time to start talking patty recipes... I'll start him out slow and you guys can slowly build up to the good stuff:

So Keith, any favorite chocalate chip cookie recipes you'd like to share?


Honestly, thanks for the insight into your opperation.:thumbsup:


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## TwT (Aug 5, 2004)

Yeah Keith, I appreciate you answering all the questions!! :applause:


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## Missoura (Feb 12, 2009)

Alpha6,
Alpha you posted:
"By allowing the packers to import cheap honey at 1/16 the cost of U.S. honey it artificially lowers the price U.S. producers can get for their honey"

I agree with what you have said but the 1/16 part.

Surely you are not saying when honey is selling today as an example for $1.60 a pound honey from China can be purchased for .10 a pound?

If I was to buy a semi load of honey ( full load on a back haul is the cheapest way to move bulk honey in U.S.) from Brandi in California or Hackenberg in PA. it would cost at least .10 a pound just to get the load moved to the Midwest.

U.S. Honey imports increased after the "Beekeeper China Tour" packers & beekeeper importers were the first to sign up for the tour!

When you are sitting at your national convention the beekeeper /packer sitting next to you might be a importer of foreign honey. Sioux Bee ( largest COOP of U.S. beekeepers ) buys a huge amount of Argentine honey.

Commercial beekeepers had to simply sit by and only try to get the cost of imported honey high enough so they could compete with price when it became a reality that U.S. beekeepers could not produce enough honey to supply the U.S. market.


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## mbholl (Dec 16, 2007)

Do you make your pollen sub with food grade ingredients? 

(I was going to taste some pollen sub (NOT yours) and the guy said I probably didn't want to do that because it's not made with food grade ingredients - too costly for commercial beeks to make using food grade products.)


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## Johnny (Sep 7, 2007)

*He hasn't kicked the bucket!*

Well I can't speak for Keith, but I did witness him put a piece of his sub in his mouth and eat it! And he's still around. Right Keith? You there? 

Speaking of your sub I want to feed a round first week in Jan. How's your inventory looking? Do you have some for a small guy like myself? Let me know maybe I can make a trip up the hill soon. 

John


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## Countryboy (Feb 15, 2009)

_(I was going to taste some pollen sub (NOT yours) and the guy said I probably didn't want to do that because it's not made with food grade ingredients - too costly for commercial beeks to make using food grade products.) _

The primary difference between food grade stuff and non-food grade is just the label on the package. Often, pet foods are safer (Chinese crap excluded) than human foods but don't have nearly the cost. Just look at medicines for people versus veterinary medicines on the farm. They come from the same exact factory, from the same production runs and the same exact medicine in the bottles, but the animal medicines get a different label on the bottle. The human medicines only cost 10X as much. And yes, I know people who get the medicines they take from their vet - medicines intended for farm animals.

General rule of thumb - if it's not fit for you to eat, it's not fit to feed your livestock...bee livestock or farm animal livestock.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

*Re: He hasn't kicked the bucket!*



Johnny said:


> And he's still around. Right Keith? You there? How's your inventory looking?
> John


I would say it's etable, Yes John, I am saving some for you & Bob.

CountryBoy, your post was very well said.

Sheri, wax paper size 10x15.....15x16....15x20...


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