# Assistance in Identification



## DSB (Dec 5, 2014)

Hello everyone,

I've recently started my own little bee yard and procured two colonies of feral bees. The gentleman I got them from said they were cutouts from removals he's done and could not give me a strain identification. They've come from central Florida area which is local to me. They are definitely NOT AHB as their demeanor is mild with no stings so far. Only a few have tended to head butt once in a while when I'm inspecting either hive. Both hives are chemical free KTBH with no signs or symptoms of any illnesses or parasites other than 3 SHB's I enjoyed squashing right after installing in early October and happy to say none have been seen since. While I seem blessed to have two strong healthy colonies to start out with, I can't put my finger on an identification. They're very attractive bees, not that cuteness matters but I'd really like to figure them out. Any information more experienced hive minds could give would be greatly appreciated


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

welcome to beesource dsb.

that bee looks very much like the feral bees that i have visiting my yard from the nearby woods during times of dearth as they scout out potentially weak hives to rob. these have similar 'two tone' markings with the rear of the abdomen being mostly black and sometimes solid black like the one in your photo. i can distinguish the ferals from my stock because mine have stripes going all the way to the back and are more brown than yellow in color. i'm not sure if it is possible to assign them to any one particular race of bees, i believe most would call them 'mutts'.


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

they look like sort of dark bees to me. they are related to whatever bees are around where you got them.


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## DSB (Dec 5, 2014)

squarepeg, 

It's good to hear someone else has seen these or similar. I've taken to unofficially calling them Florida Seminoles since I can't pin down a known strain lineage. A friend suggested that they looked like red skin Native Americans. Maybe these "mutts" have evolved into their own subspecies. As I'm new to all of this, it'd still be great to find out more information.

Have a good weekend everyone 
May your smokers stay lit and your bars be full of capped gold


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

The Seminoles were mutts, too. A little bit of everything, and not all Amerind. And notoriously successful.

Sounds like you have some survivors that are worth an experiment to see if they live up to the name.


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## gezellig (Jun 11, 2014)

I have the exact same "mutt" bee living in the wall of an old dilapidated house on the back of my farm that have been there for at least the last 12 years. I hope someone is able to identify them, as I'm curious myself. Like I said, they've been there at least 12 years that I have noticed them, not sure how long before we ever noticed them.


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## dynemd (Aug 27, 2013)

I've got feral bees like those in California too. They sometimes rob in the fall, not really aggressive stingers either.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Yep, that's a bee alright! 

There's lots of bees like that in my hives, not the most common coloration, but there are quite a few of them.


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## DSB (Dec 5, 2014)

Those of us that seem to have these bees.... What do you think of their hardiness and resistance to common pests? Do they over winter well? I don't have winter so I can't answer that one. according to everyone's location they seem to be very adaptable.


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

they are pretty much like average bees.


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## DSB (Dec 5, 2014)

Thank you for your average opinion mathesonequip.


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## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

Color of bees is an unstable trait. Way more emphasis is given the diagnostic capacity of color forms than is warranted.


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## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)

mathesonequip said:


> they look like sort of dark bees to me.


Certainly not a true dark bee. Dark bees have roundish butts and no yellowish bands.

Compare:


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## DSB (Dec 5, 2014)

BernhardHeuvel, 

You're correct, they're not true dark bees. Seeing as you're in Germany, you would definitely know
Have you seen any color variants in your area that resemble the one in my original post?
I'm taking notes and trying to put together some information before sending a sample of these in the spring to the entomology department at USF.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

DSB said:


> BernhardHeuvel,
> 
> You're correct, they're not true dark bees. Seeing as you're in Germany, you would definitely know
> Have you seen any color variants in your area that resemble the one in my original post?
> I'm taking notes and trying to put together some information before sending a sample of these in the spring to the entomology department at USF.


Most above have told you... it's just a bee. I've seen them in packages and swarms looking the same. It's not like they are some mystery race...

Italian/Carniolian/Russian/(based on your area) maybe even a little AHB?

The ones looking like the one in your OP typically look a little older and less hairy so they lose some of the striped look it seems like. Look at this gal:


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## msscha (Jan 4, 2014)

I'll be curious to see what USF has to say about your bees! I'm just a bit north of you, and while I bought my first package out of state, they were "mutts" that still varied quite a bit in coloration when they arrived. After supercedure, the current bees are all a bit smaller, and much more similar in coloring (none are really golden, none are really dark, most have distinctive striping) -- except the drones, which are colored like the one in your picture. I am soooo curious to see what happens over the next couple of years as the colony nativizes.


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## DSB (Dec 5, 2014)

Thank you all for your input.


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