# Viktor Zhdamirov guilty after jury trial in 2012 Hive theft



## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

I love a story where _some_ justice prevails!!


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## tommysnare (Jan 30, 2013)

come do that in our neck of the woods...get whats comin to u.


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

That's was the good news.... In reality the SOAHT ( son of a hive thief) is likely to get off with 6 months or less and Mark and Trevor will never see their money.

With the Feds in charge because of the "overcrowding" issue and our mamby pamby lack of balls within the California judicial system to use the local oak trees to there best potential the deterrence factor and its proclivity to preclude the Russian bee mafia from continuing in their Wiley Ways" it it is not even about to enter the minds of these slime balls or their blood brothers to stop these shenanigans. 


The main reason I want trackers in all our yards. When one of those ( or anyone else ) lifts the wrong box its off to my cell hone which will tell me when and where to take the safe full of "protection equipment." 

Even though we will be busy with queens and packages I would love to take a trip to Woodland in early April to let the honorable Mr Mock know that if he and the rest of the system wont do their job there are at least a few hundred of us out here who are willing to...... as Tommy stated so adeptly.


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## UVBee (Jan 5, 2012)

JWChesnut said:


> (( Issue originated in a "turf dispute" about robbing bees in closely located yards in September, 2012))
> 
> There was no "dispute" about territory. We are very sensitive to other beekeepers' historic yards for we abide and believe in the "golden rule." The bees in one location were in pollination and the other was a temporary yard for our divides. Before placing the divides, we had asked the landowner and the farmer who leased the ground if there was any hives in the area. They were not aware of any. Mr. Zhdamirov's hives were placed behind a gate and on top of a levee which was out of view from all, but those with access to the gate below. In cases that our hives are bothering people or their bees, we have our name and phone number on the side of the hives so that we can be contacted. We have many yards we've used for over 40 years that are currently pressured by new beekeepers placing hives too close. Our response is to attempt to contact the beekeeper and the landowner to explain the issues of placing too many hives in a region NOT to vandalize or kill the others' bees.
> 
> The reality in California is that there are just too many beehives for the dwindling amount of resources available to the bees after the almonds. For me, it seems as though people see other beehives and think it must be a great place to put bees if there are already hives there. Word of advice to newcomers to this business; be aware of other bee hives in the area. Placing hives within a mile of another yard of bees does nobody any good and only exposes your hives to whatever parasites or pathogens they have and visa-versa.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Yep first time for everything, about 15 years ago I had 200 hives stolen in the Clarksburg area in Yolo county, caught the xxxxx with my hives all branded but the DA would do nothing, they draged him into court twice and let him go. I had KFBK & the Sacramento bee doing stories, even had John Foster trying to get help from the farm Bureau in Yolo County but all failed. Like I said, first time for everything.


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## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

If i caught someone stealing my hives or anything i own........ I have never even thought of stealing someone else's possessions let alone hives that belong to a hard working citizen. 

I always wonder when looking under bees on Craigslist how many of those hives are stolen.


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## RAK (May 2, 2010)

BeeGhost said:


> I always wonder when looking under bees on Craigslist how many of those hives are stolen.


Especially when there up for $120/ hive.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

If it were anything but hives with bees in them it would probably go like this... the cops confiscate the hives as evidence. As soon as the trial is over, with no notice to the victims, the cops auction off the hives and the department takes the money. That's how it works here anyway. I've seen a guy lose a truckload of tools that way and my son lost property that way as well...

Luckily for the victims they have bees in them...


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## Seven Hills (Apr 7, 2011)

I have 2 comments about this thread. First I am in Yolo county and they put people in jail for a long time, so this guy will more than likely get a good sentence. Second, I disagree with the beekeepers who think that just because a landowner gives you permission to put your bees on their land does not give you any right to steal food from other beekeepers land(flowers) that they own and plant. Soo many locations in yolo county are grazing land with not one **** flower for the bees. So when you say you have had locations for 40years so what!! If a new beekeeper owns 100 acres of land and chooses not to grow a crop but instead let the mustard and vetch grow you have no right to put your bees within my food area without providing your bees with food and I don't mean syrup cans you put on a couple times, and don't get me started on the "I guess bees don't need water" so why can't they steal yours too!!! There are not just to many bees in yolo county there are inconsiderate beekeepers. Buy your own land and plant flowers or stay away from beekeepers property. You know exactly what you are doing when you place your bees and how much food there will be for them and where it is going to be coming from. So instead of thinking you have some right, maybe the beekeeper who doesn't even own the land should come talk to the property owner beekeepers to see if they have a problem with you putting your bees next door. If I had cattle do I have the right to see one of my neighbors with grass and just move my cows over there to steal it away from their cows? NO!
Stealing is stealing bees or food, doesn't matter. I can't wait to hear the comebacks of we can't control where our bees forage. And I call bull**** on that. If someone buys land and bees within the forage distance of a non landowner beekeeper they have every right to tell you to move unless you plant a forage crop for the bees on their land. There is never a reason to damage or steal someone else's bees. Deal with the owner of the bees 
This may have gotten a little off topic but unless you own the land your bees are on and feed them, those of us that do would appreciate you keeping your bees away. It's not that hard! 
Yes I am one of those newer beekeepers you speak of, but I am responsible for the health of my bees and it offends me when you think you have rights over my private property and food. 
Buy your own land. I did!


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## Haraga (Sep 12, 2011)

You nailed it Seven Hills. I doubt we will see any beekeepers run out and buy land and plant crops though. They simply don't have the net income to get it done.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

This is a comical thread. You Californians shouldn't have been so quick to get rid of all your guns. Sounds like you all have some major issues that need worked out.


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## Haraga (Sep 12, 2011)

Me thinks the guns might be a bad idea.


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## Woodchip (May 29, 2013)

Give the bees a six-shooter so they can sting more than once


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Yes but you live north of the border. Take no offense, but I havent seen too many gun toting Canucks. California used to be full of gun toters. Maybe Californians still are, just reduced to cap and ball.


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

Seven hills, 

A few things to consider. First of all I want to congratulate you on your purchase. Use it well.

As most law those regarding bees are based in common law, statutes, and better yet those build on common courtesy and decency. 

Until two things occurred those rules worked really well in northern California: They are the onslaught of the almonds and the onslaught of the Slavic migration to the Sacramento area. 

The tradition of not jumping in or on other yards worked really well and was one that was written in the heart and mind every commercial beek in California until the two previously mentioned incidents happened (99%) 

There were unwritten rules that everyone followed and worked well.... Plain and simple.... 

You just didn't not consider not following them. Those who did were considered the same as child molesters are categorized today. ( FYI: And still are!!!!!) 

In the old days you either found new space or bought someone out. No parking on the same ranch or just across the fence with your 200 newly purchased equipment...... 

When the _Slavic_ and the out of state Almond ballers started to show up a very high majority thought they thought they could do what the heck the liked.... Move on in and disrespect the culture and system that has worked so well for nearly 150 years......

In your case if you purchased the land and or anyone else had a yard next door the tradition said you should have done your homework before you bought and no way should you expect the yard next door to get moved for your convenience 

The whole concept of "bee space rights" is loosely based on the same concepts as water rights are in the west. First come.... first served.. If your low on the list buy the rights or go elsewhere....

Now I know you may not like it but the system worked very well and kept everyone quite civil. 

In the case of Mr. Z. He broke two rules... Earn your own keep ( acquire goods through your own sweat and tears over the course of many years) and don't jump yards. Both cultural rules although the first is codified...

To follow up on the his sentence I hope that Mr. Z gets deported back to the land where we was born if he hasn't already obtained citizenship here. If he has it needs to be stripped.....

Taking other people stuff might be cool in either your or his old culture. I don't want you doing it to myself or my neighbor......


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

This is sounding a lot like TG of old. A message was posted to address this that needs to be reposted here.

"We do not allow members to mis-spell proper names or use phrases that make fun of, belittle, or make light of individuals or groups of people. When proper names are purposefully mis-spelled or abused, that's the equivalent of a personal attack. Everyone has a name and simple, basic respect should dictate that one's name not be used by others in a manner or context that is disrespectful."

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?234689-Caveat-Posteri-Let-the-poster-beware


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## Seven Hills (Apr 7, 2011)

The ones I am talking about have plenty of land of their own. Just not land with food. They could spend a little and plant a forage crop or even better get free vetch and mustard from project APIS. How about a beekeeper who puts their bees next to the sugar plant. When asked to leave because they could not keep 300 hives out of the sugar, the landowner where the hives are told the sugar plant the beekeeper could not be expected to keep his bees out, but would not move them. 
If you own a million dollar house you can afford a little seed for your bees.

Honey for all
I was here first! There were no bees around me for the first 10 years I owned the property but as soon as I got my own bees and had vetch mustard and the most important, star thistle growing on my land they started moving in around me. Over 500 hives within a half mile, most right across the street on land purchased just 2 years ago. That beekeeper moved his bees in knowing I was there. To that note I disagree that I should have known before I bought land that there were other bees around. That is crap, so if there was someone squatting on property and I bought it do I have to let them stay and also feed them too? Even if I did buy after there were bees you still have to move your bees if you are stealing food from me the landowner.. The other beekeeper is the one who is not following your "buy the rights or go somewhere else" concept. You are not grandfathered in if I own the land.


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## UVBee (Jan 5, 2012)

Seven Hills, I believe we are speaking a similar language. I reread what I had written about speaking to the beekeeper about their hives being too close, and it may be possible that I did not write that clearly. I did not mean that the beekeeper and the landowner were the same person. I meant speak to them individually. 100% of the issues I have had with another beekeeper being too close to my hives has not been with someone who owned the land their bees are kept. They were beekeepers that were new to the area and for, probably the same reasons I decided to keep bees in a certain area, they placed theirs there too. 

My general point is exactly what you said, "just because you have permission" to place hives on land it doesn't make it right. And as you said, we must be more considerate to our neighbors (within flying distance of our hives not just our fence line neighbors). When I state "new" beekeepers, I mean beekeepers bringing in hives to a new area they have not had hives in before. Many times this kind of intrusion is people new to beekeeping and other times it's an old "friend." Too often in places where we have kept hives for years semi-successfully another drop of bees end up next door (and these are not landowning beekeepers) and these people are not aware or do not care about the issues this resource competition creates for both of our hives, but many beekeepers who have been around the block a few times understand why it's not beneficial to encroach on another area that is already supporting a number of hives. 

As for your own the land you keep your bees on argument… I do own properties that my bees are kept on, but also rent land as well. Just as many farmers will lease other people's land, it's not unreasonable to lease land for bees either. The amount of space a beehive can cover is breathtaking. There is not many who possess enough land to actually support their hives independent of other landowners. 100 acres is quite the chunk of land to the layperson, but to a bee it's a few minute flight across to the neighbors and beyond. All things equal, if there are two beekeeper who have no ownership of land then there should be some respect to the beekeeper who has placed their bees there for many years prior. I believe we are lamenting the same issues about other hives invading your hives' territory. Whether you own the land or rent a spot to place hives, if you are bringing hives to a new region the same consideration has to be given to other beekeepers who place hives in the area. Nobody deserves to have their livelihood jeopardized by ignorance or malicious theft as you have described. First step is to find out what side of the coin the "new" beekeeper is coming from. As a landowner, you have the right to tell a guy whose has placed their hives there for over 40 years that it's your land and you are doing what you want, but after those fence lines it's technically anybody's game. That's where I was saying that you can speak to your neighbor (the property owner) about the issues of placing hives too close together. My thought is that you might not find a sympathetic audience if you've just moved somewhere and want to kick out an old beekeeper. 9 times out of 10 this is not the scenario you are faced with though. It is normally another newcomer or someone who has seen the improvements you have made to your property and has decided to poach off your hard work. 

Seven Hills, it sounds as though you speak from personal frustration with the scenario you have illustrated. Personally, I have had three beekeepers place their hives less than half a mile from my shop and land where my family has lived for over 150 years. I am also responsible for my hives' nutritional needs and I would never assume a right over your private property and food. I understand the frustration, but as long as there is communication most of these intruders are more considerate than you may have given them credit for originally.


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## UVBee (Jan 5, 2012)

Honey 4 All, 

Thank you. You succinctly outlined most of what I was thinking as well. It's a brave new world out there and some of it really stinks. The days of buying out beekeepers and "inheriting" their yards are gone and in are the "beekeeper-in-a-year" deals. All of these new orchards need bees and all those bees need a place to live… it's difficult to see how this will work out well for anybody, but my hope is to keep holding to some of the "old" rules and that we can create some understanding of how important it is for our livelihood and for our bees health to stay true. 

Seven hills, that's a terrible position to be in with that many hives around your home and land. Unfortunately, that inconsiderate choice of bringing hives closer to your property is becoming more the norm than an anomaly of Yolo County. Ask the beekeepers out in South Dakota…


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

Barry, 

Just wanted you and others to know that in the course of the last 25 years I have dealt with many upstanding and honest beekeepers from the same community as MR. Z... Some really swell ones.... Ones that I would hand all I have with the exception of my wife.... 

The problem lies in that those who fit that category happen to be the exception as opposed to the rule. 

Unfortunately those who are a great asset to our state happen to be a thin slice of the big picture as seen by not only myself but many other beekeepers. Mr. Z's case, which is reaching its final judicial stage clearly points out by what the Tauzer's and many others have been going through on an inordinate scale since "they" arrived. 

The truth be told.... I and many others in our area will unequivocally state that there are many more times beyond this current case which have shown an abhorrent statistically proven propensity for the "them" to be just the opposite of the comments listed in my first paragraph. If you or I were to put up a survey on here to ask who was out there stealing all the hives in our area it would almost conclusively point to two "communities" as the fingered perpetrators. How would you like us call these folks? We all know who it is.... Hiding it is not going to make it better. Dealing with it openly can do nothing but help.... 

I consider this analogous to what I experienced 50 years ago when I was a child and the "G*psies" would show up in their wagons on the front yard... There might have been a few good ones among them but everyone knew when they showed up you better lock the chicken coop and get out the shotgun cause the ratio of trouble was going to be a lot higher than with the "average" Joe stepping on your door steps. All I can say is good riddance to that as well as the junk happening now. We used to call the neighbors and let them know the wagons were on their way. Doing so here is the same thing but just a different form or conveying the information. 

I can dare to bet it was not one of the old timers who parked on top of UV's home place. No way in the world. At times Trevor puts hives next to my home place for pollination.. No big deal... But he doesn't leave them parked for 500 years knowing its going to cause me issues. 

Unfortunately this "discussion" has only just begun..... Until people get with the old plan or the state implements new ones this is going to turn out messy somewhere down the line....


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Phil, you and I have had conversations and I know you're a smart cookie. Nowhere have I tried to cover up or hide any information being posted here about who is/has done unlawful acts. Regardless of what unlawful act an individual or group of people have done, I still expect civility in how they are address and that means using proper names/labels when mentioning them. Slurs and derogatory names will not be allowed.


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## babybee (Mar 23, 2012)

Seems like there could be decent wintering grounds in other parts of the country that would have many less beekeepers. Maybe the other south western states. The bees would still be close to almonds and not have the fire ant issues we have here in the gulf Coast states. Seems to me that 100 acres of ground wouldn't take care of many bees even if planted into loads of different forage plants.


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## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

Babybee I imagine there are the grounds you speak of, but the cost to truck them there and hire trusted help to take care of them would over ride the purpose of being able to manage the colonies yourself, unless you are single or are willing to travel like a gypsy. 

My question to the guys that do bees for a living is this: Example- Lets say your a beekeeper in Yuba City, you run 5000 hives, obviously you cant keep that many in one area so you need to spread them out around a large area so you have yards from Redding to Los Banos, how can that be fair to a guy that wants to take up bees on a larger scale than a hobbiest? I mean, if I ask a farmer permission to put some hives on his property that is 10 minutes from my house and he grants it, how can a larger guy from 3 hours away get mad about it? Kind of like monopolizing the state wouldn't it??

Im in the same general area as a couple other people on here and also a few that are not on this site, and everyone seems to get along and help each other out as well. The yards are actually fairly close to each other but with limited amount of hives per yard. During certain crop blooms there are hundreds more hives that show up and leave after bloom as well and not a bad word is ever said amongst each other. Where I keep my bees they stay there year round (except for almonds) and is considered my home yard where everything through out the year is done. During safflower hundreds of hives move in and after they all move out............now could those guys get mad that a guy that has treated this farm as his "home" is also there for the safflower bloom?? I am the new guy on the block in the area and in my mind don't have any say or even care about who moves in and out. Im just content in having a decent area to keep my hives where the only flow isn't sitting in a tote waiting to be pumped out.

I can totally understand yards in the foothills where your basic honey flow bloom comes from star thistle and not much else, then you would need to have certain areas to yourself to obtain a honey crop, especially over the last few drought years.

I understand there are people that make a living off of bees, and I totally respect that, but does it give them the right to lock up the entire state for their own private use? I mean, I have no intentions of ever looking for a yard more than 1/2 hour from my house, but if I had 1000 hives, im sure I would have no choice but to go looking, even if it meant undesirable areas that would mean keeping hives alive on sub and syrup!!


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## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

The issue is a broad one: civic integration of immigrant communities. Carnegie Foundation does a lot of thought work on the issue -- perhaps appealing to them to study Russian/Ukrainian integration in California beekeeping might provide a useful set of actions and blueprints for improvement.

Many immigrant communities have quickly adopted classic American values, mores and ethics, but often after a period of discrimination, exclusion and an episode of rampant criminality that caused self-inflicted damage to the community.

Steps that often accelerate integration are 1) professional certification, and 2) mixed native-immigrant professional associations.

Any regulation is anti-thetical to the "rugged individualists" that believe packing a six-shooter is the solution to any problem in our wild, wild west (of 21th century suburbia). Consider how re-instituting a bee yard inspection and documentation requirement would regularize the profession. That is the apiary analog of 1) profesional certification.

The strictly voluntary associations could become a mandatory requirement, and hence ensure that native-immigrant mixing take place. The reason this works to reduce corrupt or dishonest practices, is a web of associations are built. The loyalties of the "good" guys are divided between their ethnic clan and their new friends and business associates. In more times than not, the appeal of becoming a real American acting within American mores will trump their diminishing loyalty to the card-sharks in their old ethnic cohort. Exclusion only builds a us-vs-them solidarity that accomodates dishonest trickery and protects it if the victims are in the "enemy" camp.

Consider, Leonid Zaytev of Bee Way Honey, subject to another thread. He belongs to a new church group in Oregon, has a very substantial business. He is on the path to integration obviously, but just as clearly must have some ties to the Slavic immigrant community and knowledge of some of its problematic characters. Its those that can bridge the divide, that will be able to reform the practices of the new striving groups.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

I disagree. Maybe Ca should adopt the laws of ND pertaining to bees: http://www.legis.nd.gov/cencode/T04C12-2.pdf?20140225104638

Six shooters are for girls. Real happiness is belt fed!


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## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

I would agree the North Dakota laws are an excellent template for a revised California license. The registered list of ND yards is online as a current pdf. When the Kern County theft happened last month, the perpetrator's (Gabino Jordan Pena) employer was indentified. The yards that employer registered (and nearby registrations) in South West ND, could be searched (via satellite image). The color scheme picked by the perp for repainting is distinctive and can be read by satellite.

Nothing like that California at all, where counties collect some hit-or-miss registration information, and beek's are loathe to comply.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Well I am definitely not for more regulations and I think Ca is loaded with ones that could be stripped, but set all that aside, I also think in this circumstance it would be a way for all to move forward. All that said, I dont live there (did for 4 years) and will never live there again so it dont much matter to me. You all that live there need to figure it out.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>The registered list of ND yards is online as a current pdf.

The problem is that this cuts both ways. A perp can just look for a nice yard to steal online without having to drive around and look...


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## Thermwood (May 29, 2010)

hmm next will be drones


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## irwin harlton (Jan 7, 2005)

North DAKOTA is overflowing with bees, beeyards,( more non-registered than registered )and migratory beekeepers , so much so there is a lot of of overflow into Manitoba and what ever you have we will soon have,eg SHB was found last year or was that 2 years ago.Bees don't check into Canadian customs when they cross the border


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## delber (Dec 26, 2010)

I have saved this thread and am just now getting back to read it. . . This has been very helpful for me to see all of the attitudes out there both good and bad. The way I look at it is I will do what I would want someone to do towards me. I have been aware of a yard where I can keep some hives at (The owners just want pollination) and the lady told me that there's another beekeeper about 100 yards away from their house. I told her that I will need to contact the beekeeper before I can agree to put hives there. Well I've sent 2 e-mails about a month and a half in-between and haven't heard anything back. The land owner said that she didn't think that the beekeeper kept bees there, but that they lived there. Well If I don't hear back I'm going to put some hives there. What more can be done? If this particular beekeeper would have said "Yes I have hives here so please don't put yours there" it would have been a done deal. I have enough space now to keep hives at I don't "need" another yard. We ought to be considerate of other's "space" even though we are "allowed" in the strictest sense. For those as in this situation that feel like stealing in whatever form it takes I say I hope they get what's coming.

BTW does anyone know what finally happened here with this case?


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