# Cedar Boards, Rough or Smooth Side Out?



## odfrank

Make sure it is tight grained heavy cedar. I made western covers out of pallet wood cedar that shrinks and expands so much that it will not hold paint, t&g joints opened up by a much as 3/8", and some rotted and grew fungus's in two years.


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## Michael Palmer

According to Spivak, rough side in...so they propolise more.


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## Mr.Beeman

Cedar is stained not painted. Cedar as well as redwood and teak has natural oils that will not allow paint to stick for long.


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## RAK

My operation is all cedar with rough side out. Paint holds very well.


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## psfred

Really makes no difference to the bees, so put it the way you want it. Rough side out might be a bit more difficult to paint, but hardly impossible.

I see the same problem with semigloss paints, I'll probably stick to matte in the future if available, but I tend to haunt the "oops" shelf for paint and will take whatever is there and not too obnoxious. Mauve and pink seemed to be the colors everyone returned this year.

Peter


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## mike haney

"....Really makes no difference to the bees, so put it the way you want it..."
Won't make any difference to the moths,either.
Good Luck, Mike


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## RAK

psfred said:


> Rough side out might be a bit more difficult to paint, but hardly impossible.
> 
> 
> Peter


Peter, I did not notice a difference.

Same painting as usual. The reason why one side is rough is basically for housing trims, other exterior applications and paint sticks much better. It's not rough like typical pine from a saw mill. Its rough because it went through a machine with a roughing head which gives a uniform roughness or simply cut with a nice blade. Cedar is soft and comes out nicely from a saw mill but most likely the wood was roughened uniformly giving it a rough texture which is easy to paint.... How do I know this? I am in the middle of Cedar country where wood is 30 cents direct from manufacture. I will never again build hives with a smooth exterior. The paint really does stick to the rough texture.


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## jdmidwest

Like I said, I am not going to paint the hive. I am going to use a water base exterior polyurethane to seal the wood. 

Putting rough side in would lead to more propolis? Why would this happen?


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## mike haney

all bees seal the inside of the hive with a coat of propolis (some thicker than others,but all do it)
rough surface=more surface area=more propolis


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## TooFarGone

Question about cedar-
Are you talking about aromatic cedar - tends to be red and white in color with a strong odor (the kind that Grandma had lining the cedar chest to keep moths out of the wool sweaters), or are you talking about Western Red Cedar that grows in the Pacific Northwest, or the White cedar that grows on the east coast? This has always been a point of confusion for me when folks are talking about cedar hives.

http://ozarkcedarhives.com/faqs.html

http://www.legacyapiaries.com/materials.php

http://www.evanscedarbeehives.com/


Thanks

edited to add links- the first ones I found on google for each cedar type- no experience with any of the suppliers


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## jdmidwest

When I use boards from cedar off the farm, it will be Eastern Red Cedar, which is aromatic. 

The origin of the cedar that I am using this weekend is Manard's Red Cedar. It is aromatic and makes a pleasant smell in my workshop like local cedar. But I suspect it may be western red cedar, it is a lighter, softer species than what we grow locally. 

I have used local cedar for many projects and seal it with a urethane clear coat. I refinished a gun rack a few years back with urethane that my Dad built in woodshop as a kid 60 years ago and finished it with varnish that yellowed. I have done other cedar projects with bark and pulpwood outer layers on the board for a rustic effect. My fly tying bench has cedar, sassafras, oak, and walnut all from the farm. We had to saw up a nice cherry this fall that fell in a windstorm, I need to come up with something nice to do with that.

I am going to do a hive in catapla wood. We lost a tree planted by my ancestors on their arrival in the 1800's last spring and had it sawed into lumber. They were the first known beekeepers in my lineage, so I feel it may be fittin to build one out of it.


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## TooFarGone

Interesting idea since you have access to "non traditional" lumber. Catalpa grows around here (S. MS) and I had an impression that it splits fairly easily as (if memory serves) the light wood between the dark bands is fairly weak. I have seen routed signs made out of it that were sandblasted and looked spectacular. I knew a guy that carved it then sandblasted it for effect.


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## windfall

Catalpa is relatively weak and brittle, but plenty strong for beehives. It is also extremely rot resistant and dimensionally stable...which is great in any exterior application. It also fluoresces under UV lighting but that isn't really relevant, just kind of interesting

I have yet to encounter any clear coat finish that will hold up to more than 3 years of fulltime UV. If you really want that look, you have to maintain it regularly...recoating long before it shows the damage, or it's a complete strip job. I just can't see giving the hive bodies that much attention


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## jdmidwest

windfall said:


> Catalpa is relatively weak and brittle, but plenty strong for beehives. It is also extremely rot resistant and dimensionally stable...which is great in any exterior application. It also fluoresces under UV lighting but that isn't really relevant, just kind of interesting
> 
> I have yet to encounter any clear coat finish that will hold up to more than 3 years of fulltime UV. If you really want that look, you have to maintain it regularly...recoating long before it shows the damage, or it's a complete strip job. I just can't see giving the hive bodies that much attention


Interesting tidbit about the UV light, don't bees see things in UV? Maybe I can create a hive where bees can fly at night and find their way back.

As far as the attention to the hive, beekeeping is just a hobby for me, something to pass the time with. But, like my other hobbies, in order to keep it interesting, I have to experiment and play some. I usually tend to over engineer some things.


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## chevydmax04

jdmidwest said:


> I am going to do a hive in catapla wood. We lost a tree planted by my ancestors on their arrival in the 1800's last spring and had it sawed into lumber. They were the first known beekeepers in my lineage, so I feel it may be fittin to build one out of it.



That is cool and a fitting tribute!


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