# Log books



## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

Beekeepers are exempt frommedical cards/log books IF you are hauling your own bees inseasonal transportation according to Dot rules. You may have to educate the DOT guy...alot dont know.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Thanks SB, I found med card but counld't find log book part. Help.


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## Trevor Mansell (Jan 16, 2005)

I believe any truck with a GVW over 10,000 lbs going across state lines is required to have a DOT number, they are easy and free to get .


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Right, a DOT Number. But a log book? I don't carry one filled out. If I ever get stopped and asked if I have a log book I will ask if I am required to have one and have it filled out. If the answer is yes, then I will get it out and fill it out.

I have a friend who has a much larger truck than mine, I think his carries 20,000 lbs. He didn't have a log book, but he did have receipts from the motel where he spent the night including check out time, and he had fuel receipts. W/ those time stamped items the DOT guy let him go w/out a ticket.


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

Part 391.2: General exemptions. 
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Part 391 

< 391.1 391.11 > 


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General 

§391.2 General exemptions. (a) Farm custom operation. The rules in this part do not apply to a driver who drives a commercial motor vehicle controlled and operated by a person engaged in custom-harvesting operations, if the commercial motor vehicle is used to—

(a)(1) Transport farm machinery, supplies, or both, to or from a farm for custom-harvesting operations on a farm; or

(a)(2) Transport custom-harvested crops to storage or market.

(b) Apiarian industries. The rules in this part do not apply to a driver who is operating a commercial motor vehicle controlled and operated by a beekeeper engaged in the seasonal transportation of bees.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

SB, so does that mean we as beekeepers are not requided to have & keep a log book? 

Sorry for many questions.


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

A while back I thought about this a good bit. Even discussed it with some DOT officials. The best I could determine the key is that word "Part" As in "The rules in this part do not apply" - now what is a part? The whole number 391? - or perhaps the decimal.... seems like I gave up at this point.


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## dbest (Aug 9, 2005)

I drive my 18 wheeler from MI to GA to CA to FL and back to MI several times a year with every thing from bees to flatbeds on the back. I have just started carrying a log book because it is alot easier than trying to educate a bunch of over paid gun toting hillbillies. I never used to and I have never gotten a ticket for it. When I go from GA to CA I do go WAY over the law on hours but I've never had an officer worry about it. 90% of the time if I get pulled off they're usually pissed about something else. The law does not say that you have to be hauling bees. The law says " engaged in the seasonal transportation" so when I"m back hauling or hauling flatbeds bobcats etc. I'm still "engaged ".
Dennie Best
[email protected]
229-225-1401
517-712-4920


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

well, I looked under the sub section's of 391 it did not describe log books so it looks like were required.


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## bigbearomaha (Sep 3, 2009)

I find it odd that there would be an exemption on log books for any reason. Log books are there to prevent drivers from accumulating too many hours on the road and keeping idiot car drivers from getting killed by "too tired" truck drivers when the idiot car drivers pull in front of a truck, using no turn signal for lane change, then hit the brakes realizing there wasn't enough space for them in the first place, or to answer a call on their cell phones.

Don't get me wrong, I know plenty of 'cowboy' truck drivers who give the rest of us who actually care about our jobs a bad name. but I am just about tired of truck drivers taking all the blame for morons in cars who are too impatient or just plain too dumb to be on the road.

"local" driving in comm trucks of less than 100 miles radius of home terminal does not require log book to be kept. At least that's how it works here.



Big Bear


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## swarm_trapper (Jun 19, 2003)

i am pretty sure that you need a log book i could not find where it said that the log book was exempt. had two friends this year pulled over in a 350 and 450 dodge and get tickets for no log books. if you can find the spot that it says they are exempt i would be interested. 
Nick


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

We have been keeping log books anytime we go out of state (in a 350) for the past 25 years or so, ever since John was shook down in MS on a package trip. They basically made him "sleep" for 8 hours and told him his next stop better be to buy one. Lucky it was on the way down, not after he had the load on. If there had been bees on that truck and trailer, they would have cooked! 

While it would be great not to have to keep a logbook, until the laws _clearly_ show we don't need one, we will continue. 
We also have UCR and DOT numbers.
Sheri


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## simplyhoney (Sep 14, 2004)

*Hauling mean bees works*

Last scales we went across the DOT guys beat themselves half to death and then waved us through. Few holes in the screen and mean bees coming out of a hot desert in June and we don't need no stinkin log book.

yeeeee.........hawwwwww


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

I run from Ky to Fl to Wi and do not keep a log book....been pulled over numerous times, oops beekeeper not required is the responce....A few times I have had to educate them. I run using a dually with 14k trailer or 24k goooseneck or freightliner with weight up to 54k. I have a beekeeper friend who is running a full semi with no DOT/ifta or log book. He has a letter andprint out of rules...been stopped numerous times and hen told to go on.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

*Re: Hauling mean bees works*



simplyhoney said:


> mean bees coming out of a hot desert in June and we don't need no stinkin log book.
> 
> yeeeee.........hawwwwww


Just remember, your only loaded half the time, what happens when your coming back through emty?  They may just say, "you need a stinkin log book.


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## sdracer12 (Apr 17, 2009)

As an OTR owner/operator, I would say if you are transporting anything in a comercial sense, and crossing state lines, it would probably be better in the long run to just fill out the logbook. It's really not that hard, lol.

Also, with all the new DOT regulations going into effect, and the government's new "pet project" CSA2010 coming online, things are going to change drastically in any kind of transportation venture. What worked for people in the past, and what you "got away with" is not going to work now. Enforcement in the name of safety is being stepped up nationwide, and anything that is not quite up to par with your vehicles and driving status is going to be looked at much harder from now on. Don't give them an excuse to hassle you, lol. Do the medical card if needed, get your vehicles inspected, and fill out the logs.

In my state, the rule for commercial carriers reads: Within 100 miles of home terminal, NOT crossed any state lines, and NOT under any form of dispatch, doesn't need a logbook. The way I read the previous posts, if you are hauling only your own bees, you might not need a log, but for me, once I leave home to pick up any kind of load, I do.


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## Ted (Feb 20, 2000)

suttonbeeman said:


> I run from Ky to Fl to Wi and do not keep a log book....been pulled over numerous times, oops beekeeper not required is the responce....A few times I have had to educate them. I run using a dually with 14k trailer or 24k goooseneck or freightliner with weight up to 54k. I have a beekeeper friend who is running a full semi with no DOT/ifta or log book. He has a letter andprint out of rules...been stopped numerous times and hen told to go on.


Id like a copy of that letter, North Carolina has started to come down HARD on 
"us little people" they say we have skirted around the law for years


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

*Re: Hauling mean bees works*



simplyhoney said:


> Last scales we went across the DOT guys beat themselves half to death and then waved us through. Few holes in the screen and mean bees coming out of a hot desert in June and we don't need no stinkin log book.
> 
> yeeeee.........hawwwwww


But Liability Insurance. That you need. Right?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

suttonbeeman said:


> He has a letter and print out of rules...been stopped numerous times and then told to go on.


Could you find them and post them or tell us where we can find them?


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## simplyhoney (Sep 14, 2004)

In all honestly just hire it out. If you do the math and include time, fuel, and depreciation, DOT registrations, insurance, DOT fines even 3.25/mile is cheap. Especially if you hire a pro and they get out and help you screen. I highly recomend ISI Livestock.
As far as local hauling, distributing or gathering of yards. Use a truck with a rating of less than 33k GVW. You can still carry a load but most states don't require a CDL or log book for these trucks. They are the trucks that Ryder, Uhaul and other rental companys use.
I didn't really leave holes in the screen on purpose


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## dbest (Aug 9, 2005)

I just arrived in GA a few hours ago with my 18 wheeler. I came from MI. Got pulled off twice and told them them I'm a beekeeper headed back to get bees. I filled out my log book but wasn't asked for it. I was asked for a bill of lading and I told them I'm hauling my stuff. On the truck was an extractor 3 tanks, 300 empty nucs an F-150 pick up truck, a golf cart, and a dresser (for clothes). Total cost with fuel and hotel stay (even thought I have a sleeper but wife and dog were along) was $465.97 I can go round trip and still be cheaper than hiring a truck. I have about $32,000 invested into the truck and trailer.


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## dbest (Aug 9, 2005)

Here is some interesting reading:

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/facts-rese...-Commodity-Utility-Carriers-HOS-Exemption.pdf


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

Great post, Denny, thank you. I'm printing mine out pronto.


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## florida pollinator (Jul 31, 2006)

Well if your comming from florida going to Wis, the great state of kentuck will put you out of service for 8 hours if you do not have a log book, they must not know about that rule.
What about the 100 mile radius mentioned in the study,is that the correct exemption radius?
I'd rather just run the log book and make it legal if needed,I have better things to do than argue with a dot person.
Also you are not exempt from having to be in a random drug test pool,so I'm told by florida dot folks,we are exempt from a medical card but not being in a drug test pool.


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

florida sometimes you gotta educate them!


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## sdracer12 (Apr 17, 2009)

Florida, the KY DOT must need some more education, since an O.O.S. (out of service) for a logbook violation REQUIRES a 10 hour break before returning to service, not 8 hours, lol.

Are you registered commercial, and do you have DOT numbers? Being commercial and having a DOT number is what puts you into the drug testing pool, based on your company size and number of units.


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