# Sick Bee's?



## MTN-Bees (Jan 27, 2014)

I usually don't worry about 2 bees- What is going on inside the hive? How is the population compared to the other hives? Are these all new hives?


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## billdean (Mar 5, 2016)

MTN-Bees said:


> I usually don't worry about 2 bees- What is going on inside the hive? How is the population compared to the other hives? Are these all new hives?


I went into the hive yesterday. There was a lot of emerging brood on 3 frames. I also seen wet larvae, eggs, more capped brood and lots of honey and pollen. The population seemed like there is a lot of bees. Yesterday around 5:00pm there was some orientation flights going on that lasted for 10 or 15 minutes with a lot of bees. The package has been installed now for 4 weeks and 2 days.


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## MTN-Bees (Jan 27, 2014)

Is that the only hive?


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## Nugget Shooter (Mar 28, 2016)

Perhaps a Varroa Mite check should be done.... I ran into that and got this advise and it was indeed the issue.


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## MTN-Bees (Jan 27, 2014)

I agree- Varroa can be checked and then ruled out. If don't have high levels now, you will likely have them by the end of summer.


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## billdean (Mar 5, 2016)

The particular hive I am talking about has a freeman beetle trap filled with mineral oil. I see no sign of varroa in it. Surely I would have seen a few in it if in fact varroa was a problem. The other 3 hives have been treated with OA Vaporization an only found 1 mite. Does seem as if this would be the problem.


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## Slow Drone (Apr 19, 2014)

billdean said:


> The particular hive I am talking about has a freeman beetle trap filled with mineral oil. I see no sign of varroa in it. Surely I would have seen a few in it if in fact varroa was a problem. The other 3 hives have been treated with OA Vaporization an only found 1 mite. Does seem as if this would be the problem.


Your problem is indeed varroa.


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## billdean (Mar 5, 2016)

Slow Drone said:


> Your problem is indeed varroa.


Would you care to explain as to why you feel so strongly about this, please. I guess I could Vaporize them tonight after they all get back to the hive.


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## MTN-Bees (Jan 27, 2014)

I know nothing about beetle traps and I'm not sure they are a good indicator of Varroa levels. I would do a sugar roll and see what numbers you have. Then you would know. Be sure when using OAV you do the treatment during the brood less period or you have to do multiple OAV treatments. This time of year I would be looking at 3-4 treatments, one week apart.


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## Slow Drone (Apr 19, 2014)

The bees in the picture are infected by a varroa induced virus short or stunted abdomen, deformed wings, crawlers or bees appearing paralyzed, or unable to fly are some of the many symptoms of varroa induced viruses.


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## Nugget Shooter (Mar 28, 2016)

I used 3 treatments 1 week apart and ended the issue for me and bees became more active and seeing brood carried out and deformed young bees ended at 2 weeks into treatment.


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

Sorry to say it but OP is like a mother of a newborn baby. Sweating every little thing. 

At or slightly past that point in a new colonies' life that it could use a boost of young bees. (nurses)
I suspect that the two bees you found are undernourished due to a lack of nurses. Possibly low on bee bread. 

It happens to packages between weeks three and four in general. (at least that is what I've read and observed)


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## billdean (Mar 5, 2016)

Slow Drone said:


> The bees in the picture are infected by a varroa induced virus short or stunted abdomen, deformed wings, crawlers or bees appearing paralyzed, or unable to fly are some of the many symptoms of varroa induced viruses.


OK..........I have just read the same thing when I googled symptoms of Varroa. What to do about it? I have just went into the hive again and took a lot of picture and forked out some drone brood. I did not find any mites on the drone brood but I only looked at a 1/2 dozen cells. The hive is booming right now with lots and lots of bees. There is still a lot of capped brood but there is lots more cells with just eggs and brood. I would think now would be the time to Vaporizer them or about dark tonight. Maybe even do it 4 times over the next 4 weeks or is once enough till fall?


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## billdean (Mar 5, 2016)

aunt betty said:


> Sorry to say it but OP is like a mother of a newborn baby. Sweating every little thing.
> 
> At or slightly past that point in a new colonies' life that it could use a boost of young bees. (nurses)
> I suspect that the two bees you found are undernourished due to a lack of nurses. Possibly low on bee bread.
> ...


Thank You Aunt Betty..........I am not convinced that it is varroa mites. Magnifying all the pictures and looking at the tray below the screened bottom board I see no sign of mites. But I am new and maybe over looking some important evidence. Next step I guess would be a sugar shake. What you are saying makes sense. Not sure what you are saying about "OP" though?


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

In Beesource parlance, "OP" is short for 'Original Poster', in other words, the person who started the thread.


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## Slow Drone (Apr 19, 2014)

I would very much prefer to be wrong and rather aunt betty to be right but as MTN Bees advises do a sugar roll to rule out varroa. As a side note for the most part when varroa are visible on the bees the infestation is detrimental to a colonies survival. To often new beekeepers mistakingly think because they don't see mites on the bees they have no mites but it's far from true.


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## billdean (Mar 5, 2016)

Slow Drone said:


> I would very much prefer to be wrong and rather aunt betty to be right but as MTN Bees advises do a sugar roll to rule out varroa. As a side note for the most part when varroa are visible on the bees the infestation is detrimental to a colonies survival. To often new beekeepers mistakingly think because they don't see mites on the bees they have no mites but it's far from true.


I don't see mites in the oil tray below the screen bottom either. I don't disagree with you but 2 or three bees is hardly enough evidence to suggest its varroa. Or is it? I will do a sugar shake.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

If they don't give you the details then you will never know for sure.
I catch the free running mites at each hatch cycle to cut them in half with
a small razor blade. That was before when lots of mite symptoms on my bees similar
on what you saw on your bees right now. You see, the mites will infect an individual cell with
a larva in it. Then they will feed on the larva until emergence time. If the infection is severe then
the normal looking new bee cannot fly because it was too weak when still inside the cell that the mites
had sucked on the blood. In a more severe case you will see the DWVs on these new young bees. Of course that
they cannot fly as they as too weak from losing too much blood. Although appeared normal the reality is they are not.
There is a special place under the bee's belly that the new beekeeper is unaware of that these mites hide under. That is
why I use the small sharp razor blade to catch them there. I spent one summer tracking every hatch cycle to learn more
about these mite behaviors. With one or 2 mites you really cannot see them against that many bees that emerged and healthy. That is why you only see one or 2 bees with this symptoms. You can not worry about it for now and let them
continued to grow and feed on the next batch of the cap larvae. Or you can treat at your option. The final result might
be a hive crashed come this early Autumn. Right now is the on start of your Spring time. In the early Spring before the flow starts, give them an early treatment to control the mites. Then once the flow is on you don't have to worry much of the mites but continue to monitor them. These are the mites left over from your last overwintered bees now on the early broods/emerged bees. Two years ago this similar situation had crashed my only overwintered hives. This year I have learned to control the mites with better bee genetics and using my homemade oav gadget under the hives. You can take
the advice here or do as you like. Whatever you end up doing, do keep the mites under check and control. Do it before the flow because the EPA site recommend to not use oav on a flow to avoid contaminating the honey. I did not treat on the flow this year. My extracted honey is very much pure!


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

OP = Original Poster 
You can bet that you have mites but at what level? 
Go ahead and do a sugar shake test. If you find more than 9 mites in 300 bees that'd be right at the treatment threshold. (I think) 
Did a lot of sugar shakes last summer in August and found that nearly all my bees were right at the threshold so I bit the bullet and treated every colony I had that was strong enough to be treated with MAQ's. That was half. Went into winter with 13 un-treated colonies. 
Lost two untreated and one that was treated out of 26 total. I find that acceptable and celebrated.

Seeing crawlers in the yard gives me the heebie jeebies.


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## billdean (Mar 5, 2016)

beepro said:


> If they don't give you the details then you will never know for sure.
> I catch the free running mites at each hatch cycle to cut them in half with
> a small razor blade. That was before when lots of mite symptoms on my bees similar
> on what you saw on your bees right now. You see, the mites will infect an individual cell with
> ...




Thanks Beepro........very informative


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## billdean (Mar 5, 2016)

What does everyone think about this:

Another great use of an OA Vaporizer:

Want to avoid the chore of the sugar roll or alcohol wash to count mites? Or just want to see what phoretic mites are in your hive. Try using your vaporizer. Just vaporize as normal then afterwards insert your sticky board. The drop on the second day will show you about 95% of the phoretic mites you have killed. You can then imagine what’s still in your brood ready to emerge as 80-85% of all mites reside in the brood. You can then decide whether you need follow up with a treatment regimen.

Can be seen here: https://oxavap.com/information/


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Many now are on the tf mite fighting queens and bees.
We have the mite biting, allogrooming behaviors and vsh queens.
Some will use the feral survivor queens too. Oav is another treatment option
to get the mites under control in the short term. For the long term solution it is 
better to use these mite fighting queens. I don't want to use my oav gadget every time.
So will choose the tf option.


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

Treating the bees just to see if they need treatment?


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Yes, that would be on the many antibiotics and virus control.


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## billdean (Mar 5, 2016)

aunt betty said:


> Treating the bees just to see if they need treatment?


Well............that is what it say on there site...


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

Besides mite which all bees have, if you don't see them in the oil pan then your not look close enough, I don't think you can have a zero mite drop. 

I did not see any open brood, it looks like they have back filled one frame with pollen, and the other frame is spotty and cant tell if it's back filled or not. 

Post pictures of your open brood, also might need to give them room if they have not already swarmed.


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## dudelt (Mar 18, 2013)

aunt betty said:


> Treating the bees just to see if they need treatment?


It is not really such a bad idea. The OA treatment kill far fewer bees than an alcohol wash and if you go on the assumption that the bees have mites anyways, the treatment will only help the colony by killing some of the mites.


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