# 8 frame compared to 10 frame hives?



## The Honey Girl's Boy

Any of you that have or had experience with 8 frame Lang hives as compared to 10 frame Langs;
Is there a major difference between the two? More to the point, is there a big difference with 4 less frames in the double brood chamber set up between the two. I talked to one of the local old timer beekeepers and he said he had tried some of the 8 framers and didn’t like them at all because the bees swarmed too easy. He is an intense honey producer, this guy can harvest a good honey crop the first year off of packaged bees by hiving them in fully drawn comb hives. He may be biased because the 8 frame hive may produce less honey per hive for him. 
Honey production is always nice to have, however my main concern is things like swarming tendencies and over wintering abilities with 8 frames compared to 10 frames.
Thanks, 
Ernie


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## honeydreams

the only real thing most people say it saves on the old back out side of that not really much difrent. I run 10 frames for two big reasons
1 I started out with 10 frames
2. I am to cheap to and lazy to move to 8 frame hives. I just wish i started with 8.


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## Natalie

I have heard that the bees overwinter better in 8 frames or 8 frame mediums because they have less room cover and they prefer to move up rather than side to side so they are able to consume more of their stores and not leave the honey on the outside of the frames.
This is what I have been told, I have only been doing he 8 frame mediums for a year but they all did make it through the winter.

I do like that I don't have to lift the heavier boxes.


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## peacekeeperapiaries

We started with both 10 and 8 frame and manage about 100 colonies, We saw no difference in the bees desire to swarm between the two, we ran 1deep/1med brood chambers on some, and 2 deep brood chambers on the rest. I have just finished rotating out ALL the 10 frame equipment and now run all 8 frame deeps and mediums. We also saw no difference in the amount of honey produced between the two, the bees are going to put on x-number of pounds of honey whether in 8's or 10's. I think we have better use of the brood chamber space with the 8's than the 10's, meaning brood honey and pollen spread across all 8 frames then up in to the next box,vs the 10's we typically saw the outside two frames only partially used except during a heavy flow. The 8's are lighter which may not make a difference to some but when your pulling several hundred (or more) honey supers every little bit helps. 10 frame equipment is usually a little cheaper and more available, but we make all our own boxes, bottoms, and lids so that was not an issue. Hope this helps.


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## RayMarler

I run all 8 frame deeps for the past 6 years, and I like them better than 10 framers. 

The bees will use all 8 frames more fully for brood in the brood boxes than they do in 10's, especially if you use queen excluders.

You can fit and extra row of hives on my 90" wide truck bed, and each pallet is a little lighter and less bulky with double 8 frame deeps instead of 10's.

They are 20 percent lighter when full of honey, and the center of gravity is closer to your body as the boxes are a tad bit over 2 inches less wide. This makes them much easier to handle when checking through hives.

If I had it to do all over again, I'd be using 8 frame mediums, and am going to slowly transition over to all mediums. Or, I might stay with a single 8 frame deep with all mediums on top. It will be much easier for me to lift off 8 med's than the 8 deeps.

Just theorizing here... I'm wondering lately if the bees will cover and move up through the mediums in winter better than they do the deeps. I'm wondering if they'll move up through medium boxes easier, or more willingly, than they do the deeps in winter, moving up through stores. I'll let you know what I think about that as I'll have some all mediums going through this next winter and see how they perform in comparison to the deeps... or can anyone else comment on this from experience?


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## AmericasBeekeeper

I had both 8 and 10 when I was commercial. I got a great deal on the 8 frame or I would not mix them. There was no difference in our operation.


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## Sundance

Ray and peace said it well. 

I run 8's now for those reasons and of course
they are lighter. 

Brood is 2 deeps. Honey is all mediums.


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## Michael Bush

>Any of you that have or had experience with 8 frame Lang hives as compared to 10 frame Langs;

I started with ten frame deeps, changed to ten frame mediums and then changed to eight frame mediums.

>Is there a major difference between the two?

The major difference is the lifting. Deeps full of honey weigh 90 pounds. The other thing is I want uniform frames... all the same size, so eight frame mediums lend them selves to that better than a mixture of deeps and mediums or shallows. The minor differences are that they winter a bit better as mentioned. But that's not a major difference in overwintering.

> More to the point, is there a big difference with 4 less frames in the double brood chamber set up between the two.

I don't run a "brood chamber", I run an unlimited brood nest, but if you are running eight frame mediums you will need FOUR boxes to be the equivelant to two ten frame deeps.

> I talked to one of the local old timer beekeepers and he said he had tried some of the 8 framers and didn’t like them at all because the bees swarmed too easy.

If he limited the queen to two boxes, that is understandable.

>He is an intense honey producer, this guy can harvest a good honey crop the first year off of packaged bees by hiving them in fully drawn comb hives. He may be biased because the 8 frame hive may produce less honey per hive for him.

I don't see any difference.

>Honey production is always nice to have, however my main concern is things like swarming tendencies and over wintering abilities with 8 frames compared to 10 frames.

Swarming is no different if you give them enough room in the brood nest or don't use an excluder. Over wintering is not that different but there is a slight advantage to the eight frame equipment. There is no difference in honey production. I run about 200 hives on all eight frame mediums.


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## The Honey Girl's Boy

Wow guys, 
This is why I really like this forum. Great responses, great feedback.
Thanks, 
Ernie


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## Beeman52

I switched to all 8 frame boxes 3 years ago for health reasons. I find i make as much honey with 8 as with 10. I have had 8 and 10 side by side and could not tell any difference. In my area the bees seldem use the outside frames in a 10 frame anyway.


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## KQ6AR

There was an article in one of the last bee magazines that stated. 8 frame hives build up faster than 10 frame hives in the spring.


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## IBRed

Here is a novel idea, make your 10 frame box into an eight frame box by removing 2 frames, and putting in 2 follower boards. It will make inspections
easier, and the extra space on the sides gives the bees a place to hang out when the box is full of bees. And no, they do not build in the empty space.


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## beemandan

Just to be the one contrarian voice in this thread, my 8 framers surely swarmed more readily than my tens. They might have produced as much honey as the tens if they hadn't swarmed so early (on average about two weeks ahead of the tens). If you're running double deeps the difference may not be significant. I use a single deep and medium. Rather than reconfigure my eight frame hives to reduce swarming, I got rid of them.
The weight difference, in my opinion, wasn't substantial. 
If you are in a cold winter area, the idea that they may overwinter better is something to consider.
Whatever you do, don't mix eight and ten frame hives in the same operation. You'll likely have to start running two different swarm management schedules, not to mention two separate equipment inventories.


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## Michael Bush

I dont' see any difference in swarming. They all swarm if you don't keep the brood nest open. Very few swarm if you do. Granted you may have to adjust your thinking from "boxes" to "space" if you're going from ten frame deeps to eight frame mediums as the boxes are half the volume. I always double the space when I add boxes. In other words if they are in one deep, and add another. If they are in two eight frame mediums and have that mostly full, I add two more. If they are in four, I add four more.


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## Ann joska

Thank you for posting this!


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## rmaxwell

KQ6AR said:


> There was an article in one of the last bee magazines that stated. 8 frame hives build up faster than 10 frame hives in the spring.


I feel like my 8-frame built up faster than my 10 as well but I'm a small sample so it may not be representative of other people's experience. I will say that I like the weight of the 8-frame better.


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