# Best Oxalic Acid Vaporizer



## Riskybizz

sorry this is the unit..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/THE-SUPER-O...210440?hash=item4647512308:g:O1oAAOSw~otWdI4R


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## crofter

The volume of the pan is perhaps a bit on the small side. When bubbling and frothing during the water boil off stage the contents are prone to overflowing. This appears to be more of a problem when your OA jar has experienced a bit of moisture pick up. Whatever overflows effectively is lost and your treatement dose is affectively reduced.


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## Mike Gillmore

There are a lot of vaporizers on the market today. I've used the Heilyser JB200 and the the Varrox Vaporizer, which I use currently. The manufacturers have been around a long time and the units both function equally as well. If you don't mind spending a little more money, the Varrox seems to be a more durable and solid vaporizer. If you just have a few hives the Heilyser should give you many years of good service if you use it with care.

There are others advertised which probably are well made and function properly, but I have not tried them out and not able to vouch for them.


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## larryh

That one looks no better than my homemade unit.. that's sitting on the shelf collecting dust. I'm suspicious of the longevity of glow plugs because they aren't intended to be on for more than a few seconds at a time. 

I bought the Varrox and am very impressed with how well it's made and how well it functions. The price difference is really nothing.


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## Tenbears

Larryh as a good point Although Vehicles use glow plugs to warm fuel within the combustion chamber of diesel engines, they do not stay on that long. Many use resistors to lower the actual voltage applied to the glow plug, the full 12V shortens their life significantly. 

The heating coil of the Vorrox vaporizer was designed for that not another application.


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## beemandan

And I've done hundreds of treatments using the Heilyser unit (glow plug heated)...without any problems. 
Whichever you choose....I'd buy from an established producer.


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## rookie2531

Riskybizz said:


> sorry this is the unit..
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/THE-SUPER-O...210440?hash=item4647512308:g:O1oAAOSw~otWdI4R


Looks like a nice solid design to me.


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## crofter

The Heilyser design has the glow plug body mounted on a heat sink and only the hot tip in contact with the heating pan. Also its handle is *not* attached to the heating pan thus creating a heat loss as in the one linked to. The work around for these two design shortfalls would add some to the cost no doubt. 

Many of the so called 12V glow plugs are rated at 11.4 volts or something in that area. They are not all the same. As tenbears mentions, _many_, in their designed application have computer control of current draw and dont see a full 12 volts or more of continuous load. 

Most of the ones that are tried and proven and have a reputation to uphold will be using a glow plug or resistance heater that will last. Some people have home made units that maybe by luck selected a plug that will last on an OA design but not everyone got lucky the first shot.


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## larryh

crofter said:


> Some people have home made units that maybe by luck selected a plug that will last on an OA design but not everyone got lucky the first shot.


I went through 5 or 6 before I gave up. 
..My bees were dying and here I was, the ding-a-ling, driving back and forth to the auto parts store 45 minutes away.

Those that have a proven plug # should make a thread so others can find it...by proven, I mean 50+ treatments. That's my number and I'm sticking to it


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## crofter

Here is one I designed that does work but has at least three major flaws. It is to tall to fit many entrances; the bowl overflows sometimes with a full charge or if you want to go a bit higher for triple deeps; the handle is fastened to bowl so is a heat robber; the bodies of the plugs are in the heated bowl and there are some signs of heat deforming of insulation between core and body of the glow plugs. There is no set screw to make firm mechanical contact between the heating tips and the bowl they are intended to heat.

Yes you can say that it is a nice solid looking design but it has warts!


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## snl

The Heilyser and VarroVap are fine glow plug based vaps. The Varrox however can be dipped in water between uses to cool it down where the others cannot (if that matters to you)......


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## Barhopper

Varrox hands down the best.


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## ritan1

Love my Varrox. Simple, durable utilitarian design, complete burn, can put in water. An excellent device.


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## Jeffro

I have two of the Varrox units and they perform with no problems. Like Larry said they can be dipped in water to cool them down between treatments.


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## Cuttingedgelandinc

I have the Varrox as well and it is a solid unit that should give years of reliable performance.


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## camero7

beemandan said:


> And I've done hundreds of treatments using the Heilyser unit (glow plug heated)...without any problems.
> Whichever you choose....I'd buy from an established producer.


Me too... I have 4 of them


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## camero7

I dip my Heilysers in a 5 gal bucket after each use. I am just careful not to get the glow plug wet. They cool off quickly that way and I can fill one while the other is vaporizing the hive.


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## e-spice

I have a Heilyser and a Varrox. The Varrox is the main one I use. It creates more visible OAV "fog" than the Heilyser does. More solidly built. One thing to note - the bottom of it gets extremely hot so if it's resting directly on wood (like a solid bottom board) it will burn pretty bad rings in it. Heilyser is a good unit too. I would invest in one of these two, they're both well respected and have a history of being pretty reliable. I bought my Dad a cheap-ish one (about $50) on eBay and it's not in the same league. It takes far too long to heat up. It's a "you get what you pay for" deal.

Don't forget to invest in a protective mask as well, around $30-$40.


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## Robbin

I have Heilyser, VarroVap, and two Varrox. The Varrox, cost more and are hands down the best. Easily worth the extra money. I've got two so they I can be working the next hive while the first is cooking or cooling.


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## snl

e-spice said:


> I bought my Dad a cheap-ish one (about $50) on eBay and it's not in the same league. It takes far too long to heat up. It's a "you get what you pay for" deal.


Let's see, you buy the good ones for yourself and get your DAD the cheap one????? Some kid! :lookout:


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## sjj

Riskybizz said:


> I have been checking out some of the oxalic acid vaporizers. ... .


What was your main criterion for being the "Best Oxalic Acid Vaporizer" ?


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## Riskybizz

What was your main criterion for being the "Best Oxalic Acid Vaporizer" ? 

I have never used one or seen one used before so I am primarily interested in the critiques of those that have purchased them and have used them. After reading the generated threads here I guess I'll lean towards the Varrox most likely. I appreciate the feedback as I'd rather spend a little more on a better made unit and not purchase one that might have issues. So my criteria for purchase will be based on quality of construction and longevity of the unit. I want one that will last.


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## e-spice

snl said:


> Let's see, you buy the good ones for yourself and get your DAD the cheap one????? Some kid! :lookout:


He only has two hives and I have eleven , but you're right, I should probably have sprung for a good one for him.


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## larryh

One thing I like about the Varrox is its simple, tough looking design. It _looks_ like it could rattle around in the back of your truck forever and still function when you dig it out. That's just an opinion though..I haven't beat mine enough to say for sure.


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## rookie2531

All this talk about which one is better. Well, mine of course. 









It's solid, I can quick cool it in the bucket. And if anything fails, I can easily replace the one part. Oh, did I mention it cost 80% less.

Homemade is always better.


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## camero7

e-spice said:


> I have a Heilyser and a Varrox. The Varrox is the main one I use. It creates more visible OAV "fog" than the Heilyser does. More solidly built. One thing to note - the bottom of it gets extremely hot so if it's resting directly on wood (like a solid bottom board) it will burn pretty bad rings in it. Heilyser is a good unit too. I would invest in one of these two, they're both well respected and have a history of being pretty reliable. I bought my Dad a cheap-ish one (about $50) on eBay and it's not in the same league. It takes far too long to heat up. It's a "you get what you pay for" deal.
> 
> Don't forget to invest in a protective mask as well, around $30-$40.


wonder if they may get too hot to properly sublimate the OA?


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## snl

camero7 said:


> wonder if they may get too hot to properly sublimate the OA?


No, they do not......... beekeepers have been using them for years.....you would have "heard" if they do not properly work. They are manufactured to properly vaporize OA...........


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## BeeAttitudes

I made a decent one. I haven't had any issues and I've never replaced the glow plug. With that said, I did it for fun as I like to tinker. Why mess with this? Spend your time on your bees. Buy the Varrox and be done with it. That's what I'll do if mine ever quits.

Our VP at work has a coupe bee hives at his home (his wife is interested) and he wants me to build him an OA Vaporizer like the one I built and use. I think I'll just buy him the Varrox. Now that I figured out how to make a decent one (the fun part for me), they are no fun to build when you don't have proper tools to mill metal.


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## SteveHive

Hi everybody, I used some vaporizer on the market, one year ago I bought this "Oxalika" it's a vaporizer manufactured in Italy, it has the temperature control, great idea, doesn't allow to burn the acid, is very tough, and unlike the varrox, the bees don't attack the device so much, maybe cause is not too hot, now in every treatment I kill just 3/4 bees and i'm very happy about it, you can find some videos on YouTube, and the price is almost the same.


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## SteveHive

https://www.google.it/search?q=oxalika&client=ms-android-asus&hl=it-IT&prmd=mivn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi48vb4lr3TAhVL1xoKHec7DY8Q_AUICCgC&biw=360&bih=615#imgrc=d0xMgkbDrJ_QkM:


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## SteveHive

camero7 said:


> wonder if they may get too hot to properly sublimate the OA?


 unfortunately they do, I red some articles about it and yes, there is OA but, everyone of these reaches very high temperatures producing a lot of bad byproducts, I found only this "Oxalika" that has the temperature control, very intelligent device.


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## snl

SteveHive said:


> and unlike the varrox, the bees don't attack the device so much


And you know that how? What is your source that says "bees attack the varrox?" That's a new one...........
Vaporizers (like the Varrox) are designed so that the OA is all sublimed by the time the the vaporizer gets hot enough to decompose OA in formic and CO2........ It does not need a timer. Ask those who use it as to their results.........


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## snl

SteveHive said:


> everyone of these reaches very high temperatures producing a lot of bad byproducts


Really???? You need to research this a little more..........

There are only 2 products produced when OA is heated too fast....... formic and co2. There is not enough formic to kill mites and not enough co2 to hurt bees. But there is no OA to kill mites.


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## SteveHive

snl said:


> And you know that how? What is your source that says "bees attack the varrox?" That's a new one...........
> Vaporizers (like the Varrox) are designed so that the OA is all sublimed by the time the the vaporizer gets hot enough to decompose OA in formic and CO2........ It does not need a timer. Ask those who use it as to their results.........


Hi snl, nice to meet you and to talk with you, you are the first person that i meet here, i'm new to this website.
Anyway i work as a professor in high school, i have some other friends in school and we all have bees, let's say that we own in total around 110 beehives, we like to share, to meet and to talk, this quote about the aggression is something that we experienced (not only with the varrox, that's the most famous), we had this little problem ourselves and we tried to ask here and there and usually we find the same answers, so we did an annual statistic and putting the data together we found this, that the Oxalika one killed less bees than others, so we wanted to give us an answer and with the students in the laboratory we calculated each vaporizer's temperature, and we found that every one of them goes far over 572°F apart from oxalika that goes around 390°F , so we've ipotized that less temperature in the beehive could be one of the reasons why our bees didn't attack the vaporizer so much.

"Really???? You need to research this a little more..........
There are only 2 products produced when OA is heated too fast....... formic and co2. There is not enough formic to kill mites and not enough co2 to hurt bees. But there is no OA to kill mites."

We researched it with our students (agricultural studies), there are scientific publications on wich we can find each substance phisical properties, vaporization included, and is not a matter of "heating too fast" is a matter of "heating too much" so , "bad byproducts" is intended in the sense that we "barbecue" the oxalic acid, some goes in and some doesn't, you are right when you say that there is no OA to kill mites(and that's a problem for us because the majority of the vaporizers exceed tremendously the vaporization point, (in the papers very few talk about formic, hard to find, sure about co, co2 and h20).

This article is more than clear, it's very intresting, sure you will like it.
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jp9638191

That's why i like the idea of the temperature control, i wanted to build one myself, but i have really little free time and then i found this one that self regulates the temperature and i tell you the truth, i got a little envious, i wanted to produce one with my student and we didn't, but, i bought it and i have to say that i like it, is functional, resistant and works good, what else could i ask for?
I promise that next time i'll answer or write something here i'll quote every word, sorry for my initial "generality", sometimes when the conversation gets to technical somebody gets lost, and it's good to read that there are some people that actually spend some time in researching and reading properly, thank you for that.


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## snl

Steve,
I'll reiterate. I have never seen bees attack a vaporizer. And ...I've vaporized many a hive. Yes, I've "cooked a couple of bees that got too inquisitive, but not many. Also, as previously stated, a well constructed vaporizer (such as the Varrox) is designed to sublimate the OA before it decomposes. No timer is necessary. It is just another item to break ....... Yes, vaporizers reach a temperature of 572 and above, but again if the OA is sublimated prior to that point, it is not an issue. 
If you're trying to sell this new vaporizer, perhaps take out an ad in the "For Sale" forum.


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## crofter

You have said that vaporizors tested greatly exceeded sublimation temperatures. Was this during sublimation or some unstated time after sublimation was completed but without disconnecting power?

I found that most unregulated tray type vaporizors can have the power cut off some thirty seconds or so before sublimation is complete and there is enough heat in the mass of the tray to complete the process. Observation trial runs are suggested outside the hive where the process can be timed and observed. I suggest that the excessively high temperatures you mention would be the result of operator error.

There is no question that the uncontrolled temperature models can become quite hot if left on for un-recommended periods of time. The power wattage, the mass of the unit, the area for heat dissipation, the amount of heat loss to handle, etc. will all affect the temperature curve during sublimation and the ultimate temperature reached before an equilibrium is reached. 

I feel that perhaps you may have painted with a broad brush in some of your statements and I would be interested in seeing the test parameters where it is assumed that the sublimation products were harmful or less effective. Ultimate temperature reached should not be a concern with proper use. Some of the assertions do sound a bit like sales pitch to talk up the value of an item being promoted. Advertising is well known for promoting the pros and cons of things that really are not very important in real life.


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## fatshark

As this is a thread on the 'best' OA vaporiser then I wouldn't choose any of the heated pan type models you slide into the hive entrance. These are slower and much less convenient than the sort that squirt the vapour out through a nozzle that is simply inserted into a narrow hole (6mm 1/4 inch?) through the hive body. 

I have the Sublimox which works well, snl markets the equivalent ProVap 110 which looks similar. I've no links with either company, other than a customer of the first. The OA spends about 25 seconds in the pan, is vaporised, ejected and you start the next hive. No need to cool the machine before treatments.


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## SteveHive

snl said:


> Steve,
> I'll reiterate. I have never seen bees attack a vaporizer. And ...I've vaporized many a hive. Yes, I've "cooked a couple of bees that got too inquisitive, but not many. Also, as previously stated, a well constructed vaporizer (such as the Varrox) is designed to sublimate the OA before it decomposes. No timer is necessary. It is just another item to break ....... Yes, vaporizers reach a temperature of 572 and above, but again if the OA is sublimated prior to that point, it is not an issue.
> If you're trying to sell this new vaporizer, perhaps take out an ad in the "For Sale" forum.


Best vaporizer on the market, that's the thread, so, if i put some data on the table and my personal conclusion drive me towards this Oxalika vaporizer, that doen't mean that i'm a reseller or a person paid for doing some marketing, the same applies for you sir, are you trying to sell the Varrox?hope not, that should be your personal conclusion, same here.
Another thing, "Varrox is designed to sublimate the OA before it decomposes" that's a theorical statement, cause for being sure of it we should have a chemical test on the vapour itself with compounds percentages, this test my friend DOESN'T EXIST yet, so, the only parameter we can rely upon are inferencial and technical data, again, if we want to talk in front of a beer is different, if we go technical we HAVE to know how to go technical, i'm an engineer, my consideration have to have a base on papers, studies and tests i'm wired this way and when i see a good product i have to admit it(sometimes i write on car forums, i like volkswagen a lot, nobody ever stated that i work for them.)
There is no timer involved, this vaporizer keeps the temperature constant without the need of any external gizmo, again, for making a good statement you should at least know the object, please, before replying i beg you to read the paper that i sent you in link and have a look at the Oxalika specs, if you don't, it's fine, you can use your Varrox as much as you want, good day sir.


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## johno

SteveHive, as an engineer have you any idea of the calories required to boil off the water of crystallization and the calories required to sublimate a gram of oxalic acid basically the latent heat required. As just another idiot making observations I have studied the vapor leaving the heated devices and have found it contains mostly crystals of oxalic acid as formic and co2 would not be in crystal form. Furthermore I have now taken to using a 3M paper mask when vaporizing and contrary to popular belief I am still alive and well. I believe that the latent heat required by the oxalic acid does not allow the small devices to break down the acid. I have built temperature controlled devices and have seen the temperatures fall like a stone when the OA is added. So there is a great deal of assumption out there but you tell me how it is that there is no trace of formic or oxalic acids through a plain particulate paper mask.
Johno


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## SteveHive

crofter said:


> You have said that vaporizors tested greatly exceeded sublimation temperatures. Was this during sublimation or some unstated time after sublimation was completed but without disconnecting power?
> 
> I found that most unregulated tray type vaporizors can have the power cut off some thirty seconds or so before sublimation is complete and there is enough heat in the mass of the tray to complete the process. Observation trial runs are suggested outside the hive where the process can be timed and observed. I suggest that the excessively high temperatures you mention would be the result of operator error.
> 
> There is no question that the uncontrolled temperature models can become quite hot if left on for un-recommended periods of time. The power wattage, the mass of the unit, the area for heat dissipation, the amount of heat loss to handle, etc. will all affect the temperature curve during sublimation and the ultimate temperature reached before an equilibrium is reached.
> 
> I feel that perhaps you may have painted with a broad brush in some of your statements and I would be interested in seeing the test parameters where it is assumed that the sublimation products were harmful or less effective. Ultimate temperature reached should not be a concern with proper use. Some of the assertions do sound a bit like sales pitch to talk up the value of an item being promoted. Advertising is well known for promoting the pros and cons of things that really are not very important in real life.


Hi Mr.Crofter, 
To understand wich is better we need to understand what do we want, then we put pro and cons on the table and we choose, right? It's the same as deciding wich is the best car, and the answer will be"for what?", quality price, confort, offroad, etc, etc.
So, if we have hundreds of beehives we are looking for something Fast, effective and with a competitive price, cause time is money, i would go on a Sublimox with eyes closed, it does fast treatments, IT HAS THE TEMPERATURE CONTROL, and you save a lot of time, i don't have it, but one of my colleagues at school works with it and he's very happy about it, so, thumbs up for Sublimox in this category, completely agree with fatshark.

For amateurs, like myself, i want something with a good quality/price, good specs and tough enough to work a lot of times.
Talking about models that approximately have the same price, i discovered this Oxalika that i like, why? Same price as the others, like Varrox etc, internal temperature control like the professional ones, doesn't even waste so much battery cause it works at lower temperature, looks good and it works good, and again, i don't take money either from Sublimox or Oxalika, you can go on the websites to check both of them:

http://www.icko-apiculture.com/en/sublimox.html?___from_store=fr

http://www.talitha-info.com/epages/138950.sf/en_GB/?ViewObjectPath=%2FShops%2F138950%2FProducts%2F"120%2FE"

The difference is obviously on the price 390 euros vs 187 euros.
Fair enough?


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## SteveHive

johno said:


> SteveHive, as an engineer have you any idea of the calories required to boil off the water of crystallization and the calories required to sublimate a gram of oxalic acid basically the latent heat required. As just another idiot making observations I have studied the vapor leaving the heated devices and have found it contains mostly crystals of oxalic acid as formic and co2 would not be in crystal form. Furthermore I have now taken to using a 3M paper mask when vaporizing and contrary to popular belief I am still alive and well. I believe that the latent heat required by the oxalic acid does not allow the small devices to break down the acid. I have built temperature controlled devices and have seen the temperatures fall like a stone when the OA is added. So there is a great deal of assumption out there but you tell me how it is that there is no trace of formic or oxalic acids through a plain particulate paper mask.
> Johno


Hi Mr.johno, i don't think you are an idiot, can i suggest you to have a look at this paper? http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jp9638191 
this is the best thing i found on scientific literature, can i ask you what is the contrast method you used for checking the mask? Have you put the mask on a forced air tube over the heating plate, i should understand in wich conditions you did this experiment, if you want, if you want to discuss far more tech i could give you my email so maybe we can exchange some test data, what do you think?


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## johno

SteveHive, I have used the oxalica type of vaporizer for some years an although it kept my mite count down every now and then there would be fried bees in the pan and now and then some would look like a possible fried queen so was always looking for a better mouse trap. After seeing some European videos on sublimox types of vaporizers I have built my own with temperature and without temperature control and have found the quality of the vapor is far better than with the pan type. After an initial heating up period hives can be treated in a minute or less from a small hole behind the hive and I can do my hives without wearing a veil and in less than half the time of the pan type and no dead bees in the pan. The details on this vaporizer can be found in this section under 'Band heater vaporizer" and the cost of components is roughly $15 for without a temp cont. to about $40 with a Mypin temp controller.
Johno


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## SteveHive

johno said:


> SteveHive, I have used the oxalica type of vaporizer for some years an although it kept my mite count down every now and then there would be fried bees in the pan and now and then some would look like a possible fried queen so was always looking for a better mouse trap. After seeing some European videos on sublimox types of vaporizers I have built my own with temperature and without temperature control and have found the quality of the vapor is far better than with the pan type. After an initial heating up period hives can be treated in a minute or less from a small hole behind the hive and I can do my hives without wearing a veil and in less than half the time of the pan type and no dead bees in the pan. The details on this vaporizer can be found in this section under 'Band heater vaporizer" and the cost of components is roughly $15 for without a temp cont. to about $40 with a Mypin temp controller.
> Johno


Sounds good! I know that the Sublimox type are better, the only big problem is the price, if you achieved the construction of one at that cost, you got it ;-) for now i'm quite happy with the one that i have, but if i'll have time, i'll surely build one, good day!


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## crofter

SteveHive said:


> Sounds good! I know that the Sublimox type are better, the only big problem is the price, if you achieved the construction of one at that cost, you got it ;-) for now i'm quite happy with the one that i have, but if i'll have time, i'll surely build one, good day!


You did get a bit of a _grilling_ in regard to some of the statements about the oxalika but that may have be manufacturers findings or assumptions rather than your own. Some of the issues related have been hashed out at length here on the forum. Some units with high temperature heated air under the tray and forming the delivery stream have apparently given some concern about delivered product approaching decomposition temperatures but there are a lot of factors to consider in delivering any kind of "hard facts" description of what actually is occurring and what the implications are.

The Oxalika does look like a well put together unit and the temperature control would go a long way towards making OA vaporization "idiot proof". Personally I would be a bit hesitant about the the potential failure points of the temperature probe and electronic controls, but if it was going to be used by students or non technically inclined people that would be the way to go.

The price factor of this unit compared to others at your location make it quite reasonable choice for you. I wonder what the cost would be to purchase in the USA or Canada.


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## snl

Once again, you're missing the point. Well constructed vaporizers (such as the Varrox, Heilyser, Varrocleaner, VarroVap) are designed to sublimate the OA before it decomposes. No timer or Temperature control (just more items to break) is necessary on these wand type vaporizers and bees don't "attack" them... While I'm guessing the "Oxalika" is a quality vaporizer, as you stated...it too "cooks" bees.


As to the efficacy of these non-temperature controlled wand type units, the mite drops speak volumes.


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## brushwoodnursery

I own the Varrox and like it a lot but the speed improvement of not needing to cool down the unit between shots is very interesting. Reading through this, I think johno mentioned the temperature of the pan of his home made version of the sublimox/provap "drops like a rock" when the OA is dumped into it.
Has anyone tried using the Varrox like an Oxalika? I know it's not listed in the instructions but maybe a partial cooling by unhooking it from the battery briefly or maybe a 2g dump would cool it enough as the water boils out of the OA? snl, any data or technique tweaks?


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## brushwoodnursery

I own the Varrox and like it a lot but the speed improvement of not needing to cool down the unit between shots is very interesting. Reading through this, I think johno mentioned the temperature of the pan of his home made version of the sublimox/provap "drops like a rock" when the OA is dumped into it.
Has anyone tried using the Varrox like an Oxalika? I know it's not listed in the instructions but maybe a partial cooling by unhooking it from the battery briefly or maybe a 2g dump would cool it enough as the water boils out of the OA? snl, any data or technique tweaks?


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## snl

For the Varrox, if you own and wear a good mask, you could operate it “hot” continuously, many do. It helps if the hives are close to one another. When you remove the Varrox (still connected to the battery) from the first hive, be prepared to add the OA to the pan for the next hive. Add the OA to the pan and IMMEDIATELY insert the vaporizer into the hive as it will start to vaporize on contact. You can continuously do this as long as you don’t dither between hives as the temperature of the Varrox will continue to rise. It helps to have a helper, one to vaporize the other to have the next scoop of OA ready and to move the battery/wires etc. 
Know you MUST move quickly between hives. If for any reason you need to pause, disconnect the vaporizer or dunk it in water to cool.


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## brushwoodnursery

snl said:


> For the Varrox, if you own and wear a good mask, you could operate it “hot” continuously, many do. It helps if the hives are close to one another. When you remove the Varrox (still connected to the battery) from the first hive, be prepared to add the OA to the pan for the next hive. Add the OA to the pan and IMMEDIATELY insert the vaporizer into the hive as it will start to vaporize on contact. You can continuously do this as long as you don’t dither between hives as the temperature of the Varrox will continue to rise. It helps to have a helper, one to vaporize the other to have the next scoop of OA ready and to move the battery/wires etc.
> Know you MUST move quickly between hives. If for any reason you need to pause, disconnect the vaporizer or dunk it in water to cool.


Thank you very much! Yes, I have a full face respirator with the appropriate cartridge.


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## crofter

You can speed things up quit a bit by not cooling the tray types completely. Wet sponge or rag till it just stops sizzling and you can dump in your charge and it will start to melt but no smoke yet, while you poke it into the hive. If you time its boil off period you can pull the unit out and reclose the entrance blocker. 

It is not nearly as fast as the ProVap type but much better than some of the directions for the tray type units that would result in a 15 minute operation for each hive.


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## johno

The only problem I think when adding OA to a very hot open pan is the possibility of the OA being displaced from the pan from the vigorous boiling that will take place as the OA is not contained in a deep container. There have been some beekeepers mentioning the fact that the OA had not sublimed and was mostly around the edges of the pan and that I think could have been caused by the boiling of the OA.
Johno


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## RedBarn

Riskybizz said:


> I have been checking out some of the oxalic acid vaporizers. One is "The Super Oxalic Acid Vaporizer" $79.99 as advertised on EBay. Its made in the USA and appears to be pretty heavy duty. Just wondering if anyone has used this machine or any other recommendations.



So RiskyBizz, What did you end up getting ? From reading different opinions, I am thinking I may purchase a Varrox. Seems like it would be tough and durable, and works well which are important features to me.


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## Sharon89

Hi everybody! nice to be here, I had a look around and after some thought i decided to buy the "Oxalika Premium" model ., considering that me and my husband had a couple of Varrox i have to say that there have been a couple of things that now make me strongly suggest the Italian Oxalika to EVERYBODY. First of all, it looks and feels super tough! My varrox looks like a toy in comparison! Second point, you just fly through the hives since you don't have to cool it down because of the temperature control, i simply don't worry about anything apart from putting the OA on the plate. That takes me 40 secs per hive and varroa falls like a dream! And last but not least, the company is just on another level of expertise, i forgot my vaporizer in the field and my husband drove on it unexpectedly with the tractor, the handle and some other things broke, i called the company, sent it and received it completely repaired! the guy told me that they have all the pieces and its build in a way that you can replace each component easily without having to buy a new one! My relatives from US bought it too and are super happy with that, they found it at Dadant's shop, even the guy there was happy to promote it. I hope that my personal experience could help somebody! Enjoy the spring everyone!


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## gnor

Just so everyone knows, the output voltage of a fully charged 12-volt lead acid battery is
11.2 volts. They charge at 13.75 volts. If you are hooked up to a vehicle, it's better if it isn't running if you are using a glow plug type vaporizer.


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## enjambres

When I'm doing my winter treatments with my Varrox and the temps are down near the lower limits of possibility (which IIRC is 37F) I preheat the unit a bit before charging and inserting.

Of course, I ALWAYS have my mask on.

But I found I got a better and more complete burn during the prescribed time if I start with a slightly warmed pan. For example after I have dunked and then wiped the unit dry and clean from the previous hive, I measure out the dose for the next one and set the spoon on the hive platform. Then I connect the second lead (the other one is never disconnected) and hold the pan in my bare hand. In a few seconds it will feel warm to my touch - certainly warmer than the outside air at the time. I have the hive ready for treatment and as soon as the wands gets feeling hottish I dump the OA in, and immediately stick the wand in hive and start the timer.

BTW all my winter stacks are four boxes high so I need to cook off a full teaspoon in each burn, which is at outer limit of what will work in colder temps in the Varrox.

In warmer weather I don't do this, and frankly since the "temperature control" on the pre-heating stage is my _bare skin_, I am probably just getting the pan temp up to the air temp of a really hot summer day. Certainly it is more tolerable on my bare skin than the water straight out of my DHWH, which is set at 140 F.

Nancy


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## johno

Gnor I think you should do some studying as regards lead acid batteries and you could find that a fully charged 12 volt battery voltage is at 12.6 volts and is fully discharged at 11.2 volts. Battery charger out put voltages can vary dependent on the type of lead acid battery being charged but generally finish at 14.2 volts.


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## gnor

johno said:


> Gnor I think you should do some studying as regards lead acid batteries and you could find that a fully charged 12 volt battery voltage is at 12.6 volts and is fully discharged at 11.2 volts. Battery charger out put voltages can vary dependent on the type of lead acid battery being charged but generally finish at 14.2 volts.


Yes, John, I have owned a multi-meter for many years and have serviced my own batteries for several decades. Unhook the charger, let it sit for an hour, then check the voltage. If you are going to be rude, don't reply to this or I will report you.


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## gnor

That's a good idea, although the inside of the hive may be a bit warmer than the outside air temp. Just used my brand new Heilyser the other day. Much better than my homemade one which was starting to give up the ghost on me. It produces a lot more vapor from the same dose of OA, and doesn't boil over onto the bottom board.
When I set mine up, I installed an inline switch in the cord, about 3 feet back from the unit. That would work well for what you do, IMHO. I think I will do the pre-heat thing too. I dip mine in water to cool it, and a pre-warming would dry it out nicely.
I'm still messing with it. I may borrow the turkey baster and just fill the cup with water to cool it.
What does everyone use to seal the entrance with? I'm just collecting our old tea towels and promising to buy new ones.


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## SteveHive

I need to buy a new vaporizer for working a bit faster than a varrox like type, I found this new one yesterday, anybody that knows it?

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=oxalika+pro


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## username00101

Johno's easy vap is the exact same as the $500 "provap" and its competitors for under half the price. 

I've used it with great success, and couldn't recommend anything else.

IMO Johno deserves special recognition for his contribution.


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## SeaCucumber

I have been using an immersion heater with an aluminum foil bowl. It's $5-9. There's a 12v version. Its not the best. I have a strategy to be treatment free in 3 years.


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