# Does anyone heat their beehives during cold spells



## theOZer (Nov 10, 2015)

Hello All,
Is heating a beehive beneficial to the bees by better enabling the bee colony to survive over winter and make it to the next spring? Do you recommend heating beehives during extreme cold periods?
I have bungie-corded onto the underbelly of my top bar hive a made-for-terrariums electric heating pad to heat my TBH during extreme cold periods. During these cold periods I try to keep the beehive internal chamber bottom-board temperature from dropping below 40 degrees F. Is that too warm? Should I even be doing this at all?
Your input would be truely appreciated.
Love Bees, theOZer


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## Colobee (May 15, 2014)

No. Heat is generally accepted to increase their consumption of stores. If you could hold it around 40*, it wouldn't be all that bad, especially if they have plenty of stores. TBH's may change the perspective - can't help there.


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## Nardi (Jan 22, 2013)

I tried using heat tape (used for water pipes) in a TBH awhile ago. The colony had split into 2 groups, and was small when winter began. I didn't add the heat tape until early March - as a last ditch effort to save the hive. One half made it, & half starve/froze in place with food just out of reach. The heat tape has a thermostat that turns on if temp drops below 38f.

Good Luck


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

Nardi said:


> I tried using heat tape (used for water pipes) in a TBH awhile ago. The colony had split into 2 groups, and was small when winter began. I didn't add the heat tape until early March - as a last ditch effort to save the hive. One half made it, & half starve/froze in place with food just out of reach. The heat tape has a thermostat that turns on if temp drops below 38f.
> 
> Good Luck


I was curious if anyone had tried this yet. We bought a heat tape for the hot water line under our house, but hubby hasn't put it on yet so I was going to borrow it for my small nucs. Last winter, during our one week of 10 degree weather, I had to bring the 3 bar colony into the house. They made it with flying colors, but now I have 4 that are small. (really just queen castles for early spring build up). We usually have a very mild winter, but the forecast is a repeat of last year, so I want to be prepared.

As far as the OP question, for a full size hive, you don't really need to provide supplemental heat. I have remote temp sensors in all my hives and the big ones seem to have a pretty consistent temperature, as long as there is plenty of worker bees and honey within reach.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

theOZer said:


> Hello All,
> Is heating a beehive beneficial to the bees by better enabling the bee colony to survive over winter and make it to the next spring? Do you recommend heating beehives during extreme cold periods?
> I have bungie-corded onto the underbelly of my top bar hive a made-for-terrariums electric heating pad to heat my TBH during extreme cold periods. During these cold periods I try to keep the beehive internal chamber bottom-board temperature from dropping below 40 degrees F. Is that too warm? Should I even be doing this at all?
> Your input would be truely appreciated.
> Love Bees, theOZer


No.
No.
Yes.
No.
Who does this for feral colonies?
Were it considered beneficial, why isn't this being done by many already?
I can see you are thinking outside the box. Good. But before you do anymore outside the box thinking, maybe you should learn some more about what happens inside the box, or tree, or wall of a house. In other words how a colony of bees works to maintain itself through its life.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Ozer, I think it will kill your bees. They might leave the honey on the comb and move toward the heat source and starve. Bees have their own system for handling cold that is based on stores. If they did not collect enough in the previous season than all you can do is try to provide more in the way of sugar and hope for the best. I would take the heating pad off.


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## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

In Areas with extreme cold for long periods heating the hive actually has the opposite effect of what is desired. when bees winter they slow their metabolism thus consuming less stores. When a heat tape is added it gives the bees a false reading on winters progression. When it is used episodically it creates an greater problem. The bees perceive the warmth as approaching springtime. The queen begins to ramp up laying, the workers spread out to cover the brood, you turn the heater off the temperature goes back down and the dedicated nurse bees remain covering their charges, the spread out work force cannot cluster and generate heat, the colony then freezes and dies. 
Heat them constantly and they run through their stores and starve. 
Prepare them for winter by ensuring they have ample stores, Combine or condense hives as necessary. wrap or otherwise insolate hive in accordance with location. healthy bees will make it every time.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

You can read a USDA study on winter heating of hives here ....

http://www.beesource.com/resources/usda/electric-heating-of-honey-bee-hives/


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

I'm in northern NY, and I don't heat my colonies - they keep themselves very warm. On days when it's below zero (and might have been for days before) , I can stick my hand down in the shavings in the quilt box and the bees below the fabric have warmed it up quite nicely.

What I do, however, is insulate the box on all sides. This I think is a better imitation of the protection the bees would get in a snug natural cavity.

I have read that successful natural tree cavities have an R-value in the walls of R-5 to R-15. The wood we make our boxes from has an R-value of about R-1 per inch of thickness, and few of us have full 8/8 thickness box sides. So I put 2" (R-10) between my colonies, and 4" (R-20) on the backs and ends and 3" (R-15) on he front. (In all cases I use two layers of foam to achieve the thicknesses noted.) The insulation is held tightly to the pushed-together colonies with bungee straps.

Making the walls thicker and more resistant to heat loss helps lower the energy costs to the bees of maintaining their critical cluster temp and towards the end of winter protects the new brood from chilling.

Perhaps my bees eat more because they can move around and access food - but is that a bad thing if I have left them enough? I know my bees do not stay huddled in one spot all winter, they move around during the course of a day and the season. They are up to the feeding rim area on warmer days and then retreat down into a cluster that starts in the lower boxes and gradually moves upward over the course of a long winter, until they are generally in the top box, or the one below by spring. (I winter in three deeps and a medium: DDMD or DDDM.)

If you are worried about your bees surviving the rigors of a hard winter adding foam insulation would be a better choice than a heater, IMO. It matches what the bees might choose on their own (thick walls) and allows them to do use their own adaptations to survive, whereas added heat could alter their instinctive patterns in some fashion. The foam is readily available and easily cut to fit and lasts for years. And the bees seem to do very well in insulated hives. I have had no winter losses.

I think two inches of foam would be more than adequate for all but really frigid northern areas. Be sure not to cover the entrance holes, and plan ahead for the thickness of the foam itself when sizing the panels. If you paint it, paint both sides to keep it from warping. I buy the simple, unfaced, foam panels at big box stores as they are cheaper, and I need large sheets for my tall stacks. But the common pink or blue T&G stuff would work well for shorter stacks. It's important to have the boxes very squared-up and even when doing the last stack-up of the year so the panels can rest on a smooth surface, but even if they are not the panels will still serve as a radiant heat barrier.

On my fronts I run a 1" green panel across all of them together. It rests on the arms of the bottom board that stick out in front of the actual entrance - this panels stays on all almost all the time. It goes up to a point just under the upper entrance. On top of this base panel I have a series of 2" thick panels which are painted in the colors of the hives' fronts, so the bees don't lose that orientation clue. The ends and backs are just the natural color of whatever foam I am using. 

Enj.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Some Beekeepers will winter smaller units over larger ones, kind of the same thing as supplementing heat to a hive. 
Just a few things to consider. 
How cold are your hives exposed too? I think a bit of warmth rising up during a -40 degree F month would be beneficial but during a winter hovering around 10-20 F probably not needed.
Moisture removal is key
Strong hives handle any condition generally thrown at them. Leave them alone. If your wintering a hive that is half ass, play around a bit


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## theOZer (Nov 10, 2015)

Thank you all for your thoughts. I already have the hive wrapped for winter. I will restrain from using a heating pad and concentrate more of simply monitoring the hive. I have a borescope camera I use to do quick looks inside the hive. This is a small bee colony, and I know I will need to add food supplements later on into and through this winter.
Love Bees, theOZer
[edit]


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Hopefully they are wrapped in a way that allows the hive to breathe. One of my TBHs last year was a winter-long moisture disaster. Standing water in the hive. Drilled weep holes and dumped in 12# of dry sugar. And that was with top entrance and no wrap.

They survived, but I doubt they would have without the drainage and sugar.


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## Tigger19687 (Dec 27, 2014)

jwcarlson said:


> Drilled weep holes and dumped in 12# of dry sugar. And that was with top entrance and no wrap.
> 
> They survived, but I doubt they would have without the drainage and sugar.


How big and how many weep holes ?


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

theOZer said:


> I have a borescope camera I use to do quick looks inside the hive.


 If the scope is mounted into the hive make sure the camera end is covered so it doesn't let light into the hive. They will likely propolise it if light comes through.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Tigger19687 said:


> How big and how many weep holes ?


1/8th inch in the back. Shimmed front up. Drilled a bunch of them.


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## Tigger19687 (Dec 27, 2014)

Thank you, I will keep that in my book


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

You don't have to wait until the winter time to give them
the sugar bricks. They will use them all winter long before
consuming on the honey reserve. Definitely keep the mites out
of the cluster and they should be fine. Also, don't give them more room
inside to dissipate the heat that they generated during the cold long
nights. Use a follower board or 2 to keep the cluster snugly together.
The extra empty space inside the hive you can fill them up with some foam
sheets loosely. So they key is moisture control, reduce the hive entrance, enough winter feed, a compact
hive space, and temp. at 40F all winter long. This is for a normal hive.
The small hive with one frame of bees and a new laying queen I would supplement
the heat all winter long because I already know they cannot keep the brood nest warm.


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## sjj (Jan 2, 2007)

theOZer said:


> ... Love Bees ...


Constant dissipation of 2 or 3 Watt in the hive should suffice. 
I did it once.


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## Andrew Dewey (Aug 23, 2005)

www.warmbees.com


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## Michael B (Feb 6, 2010)

No. Bees are perfectly adapted for cold weather. Winter bees have fat cells unlike summer bees. Heating the hive will create an unstable hive. Bees will move, fly, rear brood, and eat all when they really shouldn't.

Bees don't freeze. They die in winter from starvation, mites, or poor queens.

My colonies have withstood -30 with no issues.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Michael B said:


> Heating the hive will create an unstable hive. Bees will move, fly, rear brood, and eat all when they really shouldn't.


Only if you over heat the hive. Adding supplement heat to eliminate exposure to harsh cold can provide benefits, over heating will create an unstable hive as you describe


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Ian said:


> Adding supplement heat to eliminate exposure to harsh cold can provide benefits,


You must admit Ian your situation is unique and even at that you are not controlling the bees environment with just heat tape or an electric blanket.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

:scratch:


_Ian_ does _not_ heat his hives - or the building that they are in! The building is *cooled* by constant outside air. The cooling is needed because of the heat that the bees inside the building release - that would otherwise make the building/hives too warm and too active.


More on Ian's wintering situation at his blog: http://www.stepplerfarms.com/StepplerHoney.html
Look for the _Wintering Shed Gallery_ link on the right side of the page.


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## Joe Hillmann (Apr 27, 2015)

Andrew Dewey said:


> www.warmbees.com


I don't think I would put much trust in that warm bees set up. On there website they consider 0F to be a cold snap -20 to be frigid and -25 to be so cold that their only hive that ever saw temps that cold died even with the warmer. Which are all temps that a hive should be able to survive on its own.

They also brag about how much brood are in their hives in February. Which I don't think is something you want in the north.


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## Joe Hillmann (Apr 27, 2015)

If you did want to add a bit of extra heat to a hive you could put a bottom board down, a supper on top of that with a light bulb in it (10-45 watts?) then another bottom board and your hive on top of that. If you used a 20 watt bulb it would use about $10 worth of electricity if you left it on 24/7 for 8 months. 

Although heating the hive may cause its own problems,brood in the winter, eating more honey, more mites?

It may be best to take temp reading of a good strong hive throughout the winter then try and find what size light bulb will keep a hive just below that temp so the bees still have to do some of the work of keeping it warm.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

There are lots of posts on hive heating if you do a broad search and chase down all the links. I think nsulation is far simpler and allows the bees to still control the temperature but with less effort and lower honey consumption. There have been some amazing experiments of getting a miniature cluster through a winter but I think the efforts are better spent on giving the bees proper conditions to survive without the heroic interventions.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Acebird said:


> You must admit Ian your situation is unique and even at that you are not controlling the bees environment with just heat tape or an electric blanket.


I'm not necessarily speaking about my wintering set up, but it kinda fall into some of those same rules. Indoor wintering requires a solid state of rules to follow. Overheating the one I'm speaking of. 
I'm generally speaking of adding a small amount of heat to outdoor hives. Not saying I'd waste my efforts towards they idea, just saying if done right it could provide an advantage. 
It would follow the same line of thought as Beekeepers wintering nucs overhead large colonies. Wrapped up, vented accordingly.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> :scratch:
> 
> 
> _Ian_ does _not_ heat his hives - or the building that they are in! The building is *cooled* by constant outside air. The cooling is needed because of the heat that the bees inside the building release - that would otherwise make the building/hives too warm and too active.
> ...


I'm told that each hive I'm wintering represents approximately 10w of heat expulsion. With nearly 1500 hives in my shed, it's like a 15000w heater inside the shed. Funny to think of it this way, but when wintering indoors, most of the focus is on cooling the shed. Lol


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

I agree with Ian here. A little heat to supplement the hive will benefit them in the cold of winter.
Having done such a small experiment before with a small heat pad and a dwindling about to die small
hive in the middle of the winter, it really benefited this small hive. Comes Spring it will
build up faster in population. Because the queen is not laying in the winter time there are
little mites to be accounted for. As for the food store they don't really consume that much until
brood rearing time again. The main thing is not to excessively over heat the hive. You want the hive
to be warm inside not hot like in the summer time. Yes, active bees do brush off more mites.


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## Andrew Dewey (Aug 23, 2005)

I have a friend who is using warmbees.com device. My bees are too far from grid type power to even think about the warmbees technology. Two yards wrapped and a snow fence put up at one yard. Two yards to go. I expect to be done by Tuesday sunset. Hives that were treated with MAQS are looking great!


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Typical hives, NO. 
Wind break, Yes.
Wrapping yes, if temps tend to be bitter.

The only thing I'd consider giving supplemental heat to would be to over winter tiny mating nucs if I lived in a colder climate. Then this is what I'd use. I have used them before & they work perfectly. Just not necessary in my climate. Even for colonies not much bigger than a soft ball.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00002N96H/ref=twister_B0048BPXDG?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1





























I didn't even wrap these mating nuc colonies yet this year. My forecast is to be unseasonable warm again this winter. I *don't *want active winter bees. I can wrap them if temps are forecast to be in the teens or lower. Morning temps have been around 20 this week, but are usually around mid-high 30's


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Here's how I used the thermostatically controlled heating cable, as radiant heat. I ran it through conduit as you can see. To adjust the temp at which the cable would come on, I'd just push the sensor into the conduit a bit or pull it out more to expose it to cold outside temps. If I remember right, It would come on about 35 degrees. If you push the sensor into the conduit and cover it slightly, it would come on about 28 degrees outside temps. 



















I ended up laying 3/8" plywood over the conduit & 2x4 frame to create a dead air space. Set the nucs on top of that, shoved together with foam in between them. I'll look for a photo. Must have one around here somewhere.


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## Andy_K (Sep 5, 2015)

I am as new as fresh bread when it comes to bee keeping.
Personally I don't think it's a stupid question.
I've actually thought about this question.
My conclusion is that I (personally)don't need it.
That being said, one of my main hobbies is keeping and breeding exotic king snakes,other snakes and odd ball reptiles.
Yes I'm weird .
I can maintain several different constant temps (for different requirements)that include a warm side and a cooler side on small Tupperware tubs for my critters.
I can dial in temps on heating systems that that are within 1-2 degrees and also give my snakes a 5-12 degree variant temp on each side of their small tub so they can have a variant,because they require different needs,if they have full bellys,empty bellys or if I need to cool (brumate) them for the off season.
This is subject is actually very important to me because my snakes could fail.
I use heat tape,a fancy thermostat,a cheapo but yet an accurate laser temp gun (about $24 at homedepot or harbor freight tools).
Doing something like this with out a laser heat temp gun is just stupid.
Doing something like this with more than 4-6 hives is not effient.
That being said, if you only have a few hives,have a few extra bucks...it ain't rocket science.
Very,very do-able.
If you want a 35 degree or what ever temp number you want it is yours.
You could keep any temp,have an alarm that can give you a text message,loud audio or a flashing light stobe and it's basically " plug and play".
Andy


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

If over one winter you have invested almost 2K into this
hobby and lost everything because of the temp. extreme then
it is expensive. In beekeeping, rebuilding is expensive because
it takes several years for the hives to build up. And all the time and
energy invested is much demanding indeed. Then you have the mites to deal with.
Going through all these I think it is important to keep the bees happy at the right temp. during the winter time. 
Instead of using the foam boards on the outside, I stacked 2 deeps to house 13 frames centered on the boxes. 
Then use the reusable thin foam sheets to stuffed the inside of the empty hive space from the bottom up. 
And both sides of the frame have a 1/2" foam divider board to keep the foam sheets out of the comb. 
So far they have survived our winter time 2 years in a row. This is another good year to test them out.


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## warmbees (Mar 4, 2014)

2 hours ago​
Slowly dying from the heat... :scratch:

There are many people succeeding at preserving weak hives... Go For it!


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Does anyone cool hives to get them through hot spells?


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## Colobee (May 15, 2014)

_Does anyone cool hives to get them through hot spells?_

'Not sure if that was sarcasm, but in a way - yes. I provide a larger upper entrance for our short "hot" season ( with the "super-slide").

For winter "heat", I provide a passive solar heat layout. They have long been arranged so that the hives so they get good exposure on sunny winter days. They are sheltered from direct wind. No insulation, no wraps, no heat tape, no sheds, no weak "survivors".... 

_Survivors_ - that's such a vague term - there's a huge difference between a weak little colony that has limped "nurse-maided" through the winter ( but they're "survivors"), and one that marched through un-aided. Almost as vague as the term "treatment free", it appears. 

Survivors? Those sound more like "Dependents" to me...

I'm in zone 5a, minus 20-25*F Winters. My "survivors" are true survivors.


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## McBee7 (Dec 25, 2013)

My system isn't just warming the box, but its not full scale wintering like Ians either, requiring cooling because of heat generated by the bees, but its working for me...
last year I built a 4 by 14 lean off the back of my garage to indoor winter 15 nuc hives. 

I made a rack to keep them off the floor, but they were free to fly if they wanted, they were totally locked in the room, there was a fan to circulate the air, another fan bringing in fresh air once every hour, and a heater to keep the temp at 40 deg F


This year I changed things up a bit, I built a shelf by the window and made modified bottom boards so the bees could fly outside if they felt the needed.



This year there's only 13 nucs inside, but the experiment continues.





So i think this year I am just heating the box.... 

==McBee7==


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

McBee7,
Do you have two sets of nucs one indoors and one outdoors to try to tell if what you're doing "matters". I like the set up, just curious if you have any numbers behind it.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

jwcarlson said:


> McBee7,
> Do you have two sets of nucs one indoors and one outdoors to try to tell if what you're doing "matters". I like the set up, just curious if you have any numbers behind it.


10 reasons it matters one way, 10 reasons it doesn't , 
Very important to answer that question on any kind of winter set up and prep


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

I run a heat tape under my nucs most winters. Last winter I had 100% survival with that method, I don't believe it hurts the nucs at all and has probably saved many.


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## McBee7 (Dec 25, 2013)

I don't have 2 sets of hives to make a comparison, but i can say that my first 2 years as a beek i had 100% winter loss (outdoors only) and LOTS of people telling me that bees couldn't live through winter here because it was too cold...
Last year I had 8 DD hives outside with insulation and quilt boxs, and had 2 survive and flourish this year. 3others died out from beek error, they starved out in january without stores or sugar board, the other 3 failed for unknown reasons, queen maybe...For me the biggest change outdoors was the QB...This year I have 10 DD and 6 nucs outside with QB and the 13 inside with an indoor version of a QB.
Last year 12 of the 15 indoor nucs made it to spring--- the 3 that failed were robbed out between the time I weighed them and brought them inside, they were short on stores. Needless to say, now the naysayers are wondering what I did 
My thoughts for this years trial is to see if I can avoid the rush involved with trying to get them outside at the proper time, so that I don't have bees flying inside the building when spring arrives, when I cant control the upper limit on temperature---They can fly outside at will---I'm also thinking about turning up the temp pre-spring to promote brood building when it's only 40 deg outside (Aprilish) so that when it does hit 60 consistently I'll have a box full of bees for the year....So time will tell...

==McBee7==


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Thanks for the answer McBee. Good luck and keep us posted!


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## markus2 (Nov 6, 2015)

Yes, I have successfully heated my hives. I keep the individual hive temperatures at 40 degree F. It works great.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlDN1Qo4OUc


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