# Considering changing to Langs



## Eilis

Last year was my first year as a beekeeper. I had a Warre hive and a Kenyan top bar hive. My Kenyan top bar did amazing ,however, I had swarming with my Warre. When I installed my package, I had 3 hive bodies. The top one serving as the area containing their syrup for feeding, the middle one was where they started building comb, and the bottom one they were supposed to move down into once the middle one was full. Well, they never migrated down and ended up getting cramped and swarmed. I tried moving comb into the lower box to encourage the bees to follow but they didn't take the bait ( I think it was too little too late at that point). I talked to some local beek's and they all chided me for not adding "supers" on TOP of my full brood box. I explained it was a Warre and that is not the method they use and got chided some more. The colony ended up not surviving because they were so weak. A few weeks ago I installed packages into 2 warre hives on the leftover comb. They drew out the top box quickly so I moved bars 1,2 & 7,8 of each box down to lower box-some bars contained brood. I've read so many tips but everyone seems to disagree and I often see Warre owners struggling with this issue. My neighbors own Langs and are constantly telling me how easy they are to manage. It's so disheartening. So, does anyone have any tips for encouraging your bees to move down? Does anyone use supering instead of nadiring on their Warre? Im trying to be proactive and a beekeeper not a beehaver.


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## roddo27846

This sounds wrong somehow, but I am not an expert. I will be interested to hear what some more experienced beekeepers have to say about it. Sounds like your local beekeepers are sorta jerks to me.


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## herbhome

Eilis,

I am in my third season with Warres so I am in no way an expert. I have had the the same problem with a colony refusing to expand down. When it did this I moved a comb from the outside of the box to the center of the undrawn box and supered it. I know this sounds like heresy but I think it has something to do with a young queens limited brood space needs in her first year. The colony will not draw anymore than she needs. Also light 1-1 syrup can stimulate the house bees to draw more comb but if she is laying all she can they will draw it above the brood nest to store the surplus nectar/syrup coming in.

Not sure how much any of this is helpful with swarming. I had one swarm out and it was in three boxes-I needed to split it but the books said to not worry about swarming the first year.


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## odfrank

After 45 years of Langstroth hives I got a Warre and a topbar. I manage my Warre like a Lang by laddering combs to help them work up. My topbar I just let them fill it and then harvest. Framed hives are more modern technology and better technology.


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## Eilis

herbhome said:


> Eilis,
> 
> I am in my third season with Warres so I am in no way an expert. I have had the the same problem with a colony refusing to expand down. When it did this I moved a comb from the outside of the box to the center of the undrawn box and supered it. I know this sounds like heresy but I think it has something to do with a young queens limited brood space needs in her first year. The colony will not draw anymore than she needs. Also light 1-1 syrup can stimulate the house bees to draw more comb but if she is laying all she can they will draw it above the brood nest to store the surplus nectar/syrup coming in.
> 
> Not sure how much any of this is helpful with swarming. I had one swarm out and it was in three boxes-I needed to split it but the books said to not worry about swarming the first year.


I think Im going to do the same this year too, Neil. At this point I am not trying to be a purist, I only want to have happy, healthy colonies. I will try that method and let ya know how it goes-thanks!


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## Eilis

Odfrank,
Im going to try that method as well. Here's hoping to a more successful year of beekeeping!


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## muskrat

I am only in my second year of beekeeping but I will share this. I started with two Warre hives and packages. The bees built down in both hives and I added a third box on both hives. By the end of the summer there wasn't a lot extra honey so I didn't take any honey and both hives made it through the winter.
Now the other story - A friend gave me a langstroth so I used it as a test hive. I got a nuc and put the nuc in a deep (btw these are very dark bees and I think they are Caucasians). I added two shallows underneath but they wouldn't build down. I added another shallow thinking more room would do it, but they still wouldn't build down. A tiny bit of comb here and a tiny bit of comb there but no building down, but they completely filled the deep.
Last fall I took the shallows off, still with nothing in them, and left the one deep. I put sugar on top (mountain camp method) but they didn't need it till February when it got unusually warm, then they started eating the sugar like crazy and really building up their numbers.
Again I added shallows underneath to encourage them to build down as in a Warre but no dice. I left the shallows underneath until March and they were crazy busy but only one tiny piece of comb was built below the deep, however I noticed they were starting to try to build comb in the spacer I was using for the sugar. I decided to put the shallows on top to see what would happen and within a couple of days they were building comb like crazy. I didn't use foundation an any of the shallows but once the shallows were on top of the deep away they went. They have already filled one shallow and half of another.
So I guess some bees just don't want to build down. Again, I think these are Caucasians as they are very dark, so maybe that has something to do with it but I'm not sure. 
I added a third Warre this year and the packaged bees I installed in it have already filled a box and are starting on the second, building down. Last years Warre's are also doing well and building down, but the dark bees refused. Go figure.


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## johnsof

From reading experiences of others and from my own experience it seems to be common for a hive in a Warre' to build two hive bodies worth of comb and then stop. I had hives swarm as many as three times their first year, they simply would not go down and draw any more comb. I have since switched to supering and have less trouble with swarming and generally find it much easier to manage. I have only done this for four years now and am a long, long ways from having all the answers but it _seems_ that for the most part workers like to go up, queens seem like to move down rather than up but the workers really prefer going up. So if I have comb available I have no problem to nadir a box but otherwise I will super. I try to keep not less than two boxes for brood, three is better.
For honey I use a queen excluder and super as necessary. As you've seen in the other responses, if there is a flow on the bees have little trouble to fill out frames of foundation and if they won't you can put a bar or frame of comb in the super and this draws the bees up quickly, then they will start to fill out the rest of the frames/bars.
I have also switched to using frames, generally with a partial-sheet of foundation (1/2 of a full Lang sheet of foundation fills about 70% of my Warre' frames, I leave a little gap on each end). I wouldn't go so far as to say that frames are not as good for the bees as a comb built on a topbar - but for sure it is a lot better for the beekeeper. Usually I overwinter very well, I lost one hive last winter and one the winter before, even with the frames, in a fairly tough climate (NW Wisconsin), so losses around 10%-15%/year. I really hated the topbars, it makes a real hive inspection so much more time-consuming and messy and difficult. But that of course doesn't mean that this is for everybody.
johnsof
NW Wi, zone 4a


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## roddo27846

Okay so why not just switch the hive bodies' positions once the top hive is full -- just put it below the other and let them work up if they won't go down? 

I have a Warre hive that I'm going to start soon, and I have no experience except for years ago with Langstroths. I am going to try Warres because there really is not much good the beekeeper can actually do in the brood chamber, like Warre said. That just rings so true from my experience from long ago. We'll see . . . soon.


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## msl

johnsof said:


> From reading experiences of others and from my own experience it seems to be common for a hive in a Warre' to build two hive bodies worth of comb and then stop. I had hives swarm as many as three times their first year, they simply would not go down and draw any more comb. I have since switched to supering and have less trouble with swarming and generally find it much easier to manage.


bee biology.. 
They like around 40L space when choosing a natural home, enuf space to swarm a few times and rebuild for winter 2 Warre boxes are 39.6L a deep lang is around 42L , and you see this issue as well in langs, The bees see they have filled from the ceiling down to 40L and want to swarm, even with draw comb below them, that's why they reverse brood chambers to prevent swarming. .

The main advantage of nadiring in the warre management style is you do it and walk away with an early season visit (The bees in the top stay warm. if you supered them it would be a big heat sink above them) leave them alone and come get your harvest in the fall. If your going to actively manage your bees supering seems to be more effective



roddo27846 said:


> there really is not much good the beekeeper can actually do in the brood chamber, .


If you cant make increase, your stuck on the package bee treadmill. 
If you don't stop swarming your loosing your increase and your harvest


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## roddo27846

Warre describes a method of splitting in his book. Is that the method you use?


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## msl

His method is more or less walk a way splits, witch I feel is a poor use of resources, and a problem for the small time beekeeper in the modern world ie the 50 and under hive club advrages 40%


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## roddo27846

msl said:


> His method is more or less walk a way splits, witch I feel is a poor use of resources, and a problem for the small time beekeeper in the modern world ie the 50 and under hive club advrages 40%


Okay, I am getting package bees in a week or so. You've got me worried about mismanagement, swarming, and my sanity. I am here to learn. What are the best resources on keeping Warre hives in the modern world?


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## nediver

May I ask the motivation to keep alternative hives vs the standard which is Lang at this time? I'm trying to understand the motivation to try Warre?

Could you not buy frames to fit a warre and turn it into a lang?


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## msl

There are 3 kinds of warre... fixed comb, movable comb, and framed.
there are some advantages to the Warre sized box, less weight to lift, generally considered to overwinter on less stores, and with movable comb or frame you get more splits per same area of brood... and of coarse the "al naturale" appeal for some 

For me the motivation was costs, I could bang together one on the cheap, It pains me when I see people paying as much for a movable comb warre or KTBH as they would a lang... that is doing the beginner a large dis surveace, and selling them that some how one box is inhearntly diffrent then another 
I build my KTBHs for around $30 each. The one (fixed comb, top bars nailed in place) warre I had came about as I was out of wood wear and had swarm sitting in a bucket with a screened lid, the next season it was cut out as I needed its resources
however the hobby market in my area seems to be crashing and by watching craigslist and a bit of driveing I put together 10 sets of langs for $307....so I will be trying out the darkside as well this year:lookout: 



> You've got me worried about mismanagement, swarming, and my sanity. I am here to learn. What are the best resources on keeping Warre hives in the modern world?


|
The Box is fine, the management can and does work
all depends if your going to keep them under Warre's methods or modern methods. It not the box, its how the box is manged, nothing a lang can do a movable comb or frame Warre can't as an example Sam comfort runs them by the 100s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tN90jDml44
my point was there are well and good reasons for the beekeeper to be in the brood nest, even the skept keepers of old went in. When you think about it, 3500 years ago the Egyptians were practicing more advanced beekeeping then some modern Warre users


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## gww

I built a warre. I don't have bees in it yet but if I ever do, I intend to try it just as warre intended in his book "The peoples hive". 

As a hobbiest that does not relie on the income from bee keeping, I find his method intriging. Plus the hive looks really cool. I will have no windows in my hive cause I like the simplicity of the ideal of just the boxes with top bars. I am only running langs and want to get familiar with splitting and keeping enough alive to never have to buy a bee. When I feel comfotable in that, I will play with the warre and not worry if it swarms itself to death while learning it. It will be kind of fun seeing the differrences of the warre management compared to the langs, just for the fun of it, regaurdless of outcome.
Cheers
gww

Ps I would build a couple more of them but find it harder to come up with boards that are 8.5 inches wide then I do 6 and 5/8th inch wide that I can build medium langs with.


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## msl

There is no reason you cant make a medium depth (or shallow for that matter ) Warre box. Sam comfort does just fine building his out of 6" (nominal ) lumber with about 279mm ID, aka 11"
The whole cult of Warre thinking- That if you fudge the measurements a bit, some how the magic won't work, is a bit silly. The bees don't care +- a few CM


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## gww

Msl
Possibly true but abby was pretty adimate about his measurements and his reasons for them. My stuff is pretty shabby anyway and so I do my best to stick to whatever plan that I am using at the time. Two inches seems quite a bit of change to the plan.
gww


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## johnsof

The advantages of the Warre' for the hobbyist beekeeper are the simplified design and MUCH lighter weight which allows anyone with a modicum of woodworking experience to build their own equipment and be able to lift the boxes. A full box of honey in a Warre' box weighs about 35 lbs and almost anyone can lift one of these; a deep 10-frame Lang can weigh 90-something lbs if it's full of honey and for me they are really awkward to handle. With the lighter weight you can use a butt joint or better a rabbet joint rather than the finger joints you see on the Langs; the end grain of the wood is much less (with the rabbet joint) and I suspect that this will make the boxes last longer (again reducing cost).
For sure if you stick with the fixed comb topbar system then it can be pretty cheap to do. But if you want to run frames then you are stuck either building your own frames - a lot of busy work - or buying Lang frames and cutting them up. By the way, if you go this route, make sure you make the Warre' boxes the same depth as a Lang deep, I know from experience that this saves a ton of time only having to cut twice (the top and bottom bars) rather than having to cut the sidebars of the frames as well.
But if you don't use frames and don't use foundation it is a complete pain in the rear to take out the comb and look to see what is going on. You are going to see a lot of wonky comb. You are going to see a lot of cross-comb. You are going to see a ton of large cell comb (i.e. drone comb). Every time you pull a comb out you are going to drip honey all over the place.
I have to say this carefully....when Warre' designed these hives he didn't have varroa mites and a lot of the diseases that we are dealing with. He designed a system for use (let's be honest) that a peasant could put up in a time when sugar wasn't so available and honey was something that people could get for themselves. If the hives swarmed it didn't matter so much, I believe the concept was that nobody expected to get vast quantities of honey, it was only for the family. You can be hands-off but you will see swarming, you will see losses due to varroa, you won't probably get a lot of honey. If your goal is to just have bees and if you get a little honey you're satisfied, then that's OK for you, but you have to consider your neighbors and what your varroa-infected bees are doing to their bees. I am not too far from the folks at the University of Minnesota Bee Lab program and (I don't want to put words in their mouths but) they are more-or-less saying that if you don't actively manage for mites then you are making it really difficult for everyone else. You really can't inspect for mites or EFB or some of the other problems if you can't pull each and every comb out and look at them on a fairly regular basis, sample nurse bees for mite checking, and so forth.
Sorry to so strongly express my feelings about all of this, it's really not my intent to rain on anybody's parade but to be fair you have to consider your neighbor beekeepers as well. I started out running fixed comb on topbars and I wasn't happy with doing it that way. I sorta feel that someone with experience - some years under their belt - might be able to do this as it was originally intended, but someone who is just starting out "might" be a lot better off by using the system that has been developed using frames as "management" is a lot easier.
I really like my Warres' and I really dislike my Lang but I do manage them all the same. I think the Warre' is a really sound design and for the hobbyist I really think there are a lot of advantages (as long as you can build them yourself).


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## gww

johnsof
Of course to your post on disieses, abby was convinced that more disiese like abf was atributed and had a bigger breakout with the bigger use of movable frames. He also felt the cooling of the brood nest and multiple brood nest invasions caused stresses to the bees making them more suceptable to disiese.
He had his view on that subject and used it as a reason his hive was better. They didn't have mites but if that is your thing, there are plenty of comercials that treat once a year and that is thier control of mites. 

I doubt a backyarder has much higher impact on his neibors then the sidliner does who loses more swarms to the surounding envoroment.

I see the belief put out alot but can't make the math seem to work to back it.

I do say that a backyard guy has a choice and pays the price if he choses wrong but doubt he will be hurting his neibors very bad but might give up bee keeping if he does not keep his bees alive.
Just a differrent view.
Cheers
gww


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## msl

gww said:


> MslPossibly true but abby was pretty adimate about his measurements and his reasons for them.


LOL….. more “cult of warre” 
from the man himself


> We preferred the 300 x 400 mm frame because it simplified our calculations


then he went and cut it in ½ at the request of his helpers…. Then one day do to a supply issue he went foundation less 
No magic here, square is a good shape and “about” that size is good( as used by many outer ) but the exact dimensions were chosen to suit man. No reason not to round them in to inches and to suit economy of materials 



johnsof said:


> But if you don't use frames and don't use foundation it is a complete pain in the rear to take out the comb and look to see what is going on. You are going to see a lot of wonky comb. You are going to see a lot of cross-comb. You are going to see a ton of large cell comb (i.e. drone comb)


that all depends on your top bars and management , its not going to be any worse than most other topbar hives. Yes if you put in big fat warre type top bars that were set up for fixed comb you going to have issues. 



johnsof said:


> He designed a system for use (let's be honest) that a peasant could put up


He died in the 1950s…..not sure how many peasants were running around:scratch:


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## gww

msl
I see your point but at the size he ended up with, its about an 8 frame medium or a five frame nuc. I did convert to inches and that makes for about a 8.5 inch board. The hive might be cut down to using a 6 inch board but to get any brood area in the box that is pretty small, I would still have to put two of them together or have really small light boxes and a bunch of them. "My" biggest reason for using the 8.5 inch board is that I really don't have much imagination of my own and so when i build things, I usually find a plan to build from and do my crappy building as close to it as i can. I do cut my own lumber and my logs average me an 8 inch board which really makes building medium langs handy with out having to dig through a bunch of boards to find what I want to use. I usually have to stack the boards for at least all summer and it is much easier just trying to end up with atleast an 8 incher from a wood handling perspective.

I do think that the warre does look pretty good at those dimentions.
Cheers 
gww

Ps He did cut the 400 mm to two hundred for the man but was still adamate that ending up at 400 for the the brood nest using two of his boxes was best because he thought that was the best size.

I have heard some of his frame portion of his arguement was left out of some transulations but the one I read he made a real case for having fixed top bars and gave his reasons of why frames were of no advantage. Mostly due to the unoccupied space causing extra heating and there for useing more stores.


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## msl

400 to 220... not sure why the extra 40mm given his topbars were only 9mm or so
Point being it doesn't matter if you cut it in to 2 boxes, or 3... ie 8.5+8.5 = 17. vs the sam comfort example I gave of 5.5(6" nominal)+5.5+5.5 = 16.5" 
and extra space below the cluster doesn't have a huge effect, ie the whole point of nadireing 
also lets not forget the box sizes given were tuned for Warres area... one size does NOT fit all as show by all the different lang combos with each being the "standard" in different areas, bees don't do absolutes, neither should beekeepers


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## gww

msl
I don't dissagree with that. I do add, and this is for the bee keeper not the bees, it seems having the bees space decent is the real important thing as far as future handling of the comb is concerned. This seems to be more important than actual size of the boxes. I don't mind trying to stick with what some one else has come up with cause when starting, a person needs some kind of guidence and then when he learns a bit off of that it gives him more experiance to maby see the possibilities for variances. I do realize bees can live about anywhere.

Bee keeping does take a little more then just the bees in a box and for a new guy picking some way to start, Having an overall management practice to follow has to help a bit. 

I like warres ideoligies but for now am running medium langs, but i am probly going to eventually fill the warre and run it simular to what he was preaching and just compare for myself. I feel lost most of the time when using the langs due to there being just so many ways that poeple get from point A to point B and many seem to work and so with to many options it is hard to ever know if you are doing things the best way they could be done (at least for me).

I have two long langs also an if I don't get overloaded will proby play with them also a bit.

I have not read much of what sam comfort is doing but it sounds interesting also. 

Its all just a learning experiance right now to me as luckily I don't have to make this a job that keeps my children fed. 

Thanks for explaining the points you made further.
gww


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## roddo27846

I have not read much of what sam comfort is doing but it sounds interesting also. 

First off, you need to read him. I looked him up when he was mentioned on this thread and he is hilarious to read even if you don't care about his beekeeping. He is definitely a philosopher, writer, and artist as well as a beekeeper. 

What I got from him is that bees don't need us and that we only think they do as a result of our God complex. What's wrong with bees? Nothing. What's wrong with us? Don't get him started. 

For an instance, he is in favor of going without chemicals and letting bees more or less take care of themselves. The solution to the mite problem for him is to let it run its course which will yield bees which are more resistant to mites and mites which are less resistant to bees. When we treat for mites, he says, only the resistant mites survive and their genes get passed on creating a line of super mites. The list of bee disorders and diseases is very long he also points out, and he has nicknamed his strain of bees Zombees because they have to be the flying dead as they haven't been treated. 

I do know this, when my dad died he left us with five or six hives which were stuck in the woods behind the house and left alone until I discovered them at least five years later. They were fine, and I was able to manage them as a hard-headed teenageer and get a lot of honey from them over the next few years. I ended up selling them to a beekeeper when I went to college. Maybe leaving them alone is good advice.


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## DMoor

Thanks for this post -- we are new to Warre's, and our bees did not go beyond two boxes. They did well in those two boxes, but swarmed rather than build comb in the under-nadired third box. Maybe this year we'll try supering.


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## Jlockhart29

Last year my bees drew out beautiful comb in the original box and with a couple empty frames left I nadired an empty box with wax starter. Never made an attempt to move down and swarmed out, failed to requeen and died out. Sunday before last I installed a pack of nasty Italians in the same box with two frames of cut out comb banded in and top feeder. I went threw the box yesterday, 10 days after install just to check on them. The little monsters had filled all the frames except the 2 end which were about 20% and the queen was on one of the end frames! Didn't see any swarm cells but the comb is still so fragile I didn't want to get to agressive. Against my better judgment I nadired another box that bees had used before. We shall see. On a side note it rained most of the day hear. I walked by my hives on the way to work and my nasty Italians (they will light you up in an instant) were snug inside. My sweet carni girls were flying back and forth like it was sun bathing weather!lol


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## JConnolly

I've been following this thread with some interest because I have a dilemma. I have agreed to take over two unwanted packages. The packages will be in my hands in five days.

I have only one more Langstroth bottom board and top. I can make any equipment I need but I'm probably not going to have much extra time. I definitely won't have the time to build a long Langstroth hive that I've also been wanting to experiment with.

A couple of years ago I cut out all the pieces for a five box Warre from 24mm stock I milled. I put together the base and top, but didn't assemble the boxes because they take up less space stored flat. I could assemble it in a couple of hours and hive the second package in it. Or I could hive the second package in a nuc until I can build more gear and stay all Langstroth. 

As I've read this thread I've waffled on my decision. I've been wanting to experiment with a Warre (with frames). At the same time, I worry that I will just be setting myself up for compatibility hassles with my other equipment. 

So once again I find that this hobby has put me in a position of not being able to make up my mind. But thanks to this thread at least the decision will be a little more informed.


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## gww

JC
If it is any consulation, I caught a swarm out of my own hives and the warre was sitting right there and I almost pulled the trigger but then ended up putting it in a lang hive. I am eventually going to use the warre I think. I guess it depends on your ambition level, if your sole goal is to run bees like a busness, I would say stick with the langs and keep everything the same. If your goal is more to have fun and learn, I would use the warres just for the experiance of it.

I am exactly like you when making up my mind or not making it up should I say. If I would not have had the empty lang sitting right there and the warre was, I probly would have filled it today rather then run to the shed and get equiptment.

I have two long langs sitting there also that are empty. I find the draw to fill the warre to be the strongest just to have the experiance of seeing for myself but just have few enough bees right now that I am still scared of losing them all and so am putting off the experiance for just a little longer.

I am going to do it sometime in the future when I am absolutly sure that a queen is with what I am putting in it. So first I have to get better at locating queens and then I may take the step. If you do use the warre, I hope a year from now you tell us how it went.
Thanks
gww


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## JConnolly

Ok, it is inevitable, one of those unwanted packages is going in that Warre I cut out two years ago. 

I spent Sunday putting together the boxes and making frames for it. I learned one thing from that: I'm glad I just purchased frames for my Langstroths. What a colossal pain in the butt! 

I built 45 frames, enough for five boxes and three extras. I milled the first 32 top bars with a Vee comb guide then decided that was too much hassle so I made the rest with just a groove to put a starter strip of foundation in. I think I'll start them on the frames with a foundation strip. If I ever need any more frames I'll just chop up a store bought Langstroth frame, I'm not doing that again. At least the wood was cheap, I bought a split 2x6 for a buck and a half off the cull pile at the lumber store and milled it into the frame parts.


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## Jlockhart29

Yea I just use Lang deep frames and just chop the top bar to length leaving one end original then just shape the chopped end with table saw. Same with bottom bar and leave the sides stock. I make my boxes Lang deep. Works fine and the bees could care less. Only problem is that moving down to lower box. I added one about a week ago as the original box I put the package in was about 75% drawn after 2 weeks! Went back in yesterday and they had not started moving down but outside frames are now 50% and this queen is super girl. Caped brood frame full with just upper tips of frames honey and she missed maybe 6 cells in the whole frame on one side. This things fixing to explode and I need them to move ASAP!!


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## gww

JC
My warre has no windows and is fixed frame. I caught a swarm the very next day after I responded earlier. This is your fault.









Cheers
gww


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## roddo27846

gww said:


> JC
> My warre has no windows and is fixed frame. I caught a swarm the very next day after I responded earlier. This is your fault.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers
> gww


Beautiful. You won't be sorry.


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## gww

roddo
Wether I am sorry or not will probly depend on if I killed the queen when hiving them. See all them dead bees down there and there are a bunch more squished between the two boxes were I turned the box I was using as a funnel back up right which put the top bars on top. I am surprized I kill so many bees as I was trying to be slow and sure. Then my feeder leaked and I had to take it off and I am sure some unprepared bees had to start out fighting. I painted the feeder one more time to help with leaks and put it back on today. All I can say is that if the queen is alive, the bees are still there and seemed to be festooning from about 5 top bars. I know the risk but am an optimist because if she is gone, I can't do much about it.

I am still excited cause I am sure of one thing. They are drawing some comb and no matter what happens. I will have that.
Cheers
gww


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## Jlockhart29

Queen Isabella is still there. Don't worry. You can do stupid all day long and everything will be fine. Try to be perfect it will screw up. remember I wrote earlier that I went through my nasty Italian hive that better move down. Well the very end frame once again I pulled out and briefly look for the queen and set it to the side then went through the rest of the frames. Couldn't find the Queen. Went backwards through the frames I still did not find her. Picked up the end frame off the ground they're only was partially drawn in few bees on it and guess what I saw? A Big O fat plump Queen with a big yellow. Right and her Center! There is a reason why stupid reproduces!lol


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## msl

> because if she is gone, I can't do much about it


Your a bee keeper with resources, you can fix it if you need too!
Try my vampire queen rearing
Take a Bamboo Skewer cut to the size of your top bars and impale a small strip or chunk of comb with eggs/just hatching larva in it and set it in the hive on the rests, or hang it below on a bit of wire, or staple gun it to the bottom of a topbar













I have been experimenting with it this year, we shale see how it goes, you can also take a bigger chunk and hang the comb in normally


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## gww

Jlock
I have 6 hives right now that I am not yet sure of the queen status. I really don't worry too much but do do a lot of dumb and feel pretty dumb most of the time around bees. I am a lucky person lots of times and my dumbness doesn't hurt me like the possibilities say they could

Msl
That is a pretty neat trick and I am glad you shared it with me.
Thanks
gww


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## JConnolly

msl said:


> Try my vampire queen rearing


Excellent. I love the term too. Keep us posted on your success.


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