# NWC Carniolan good for zone 7?



## TheBuzz (Feb 8, 2012)

LOL zone 7 is the Caribbean for Carns. They're suited for us New Englanders who are in zones 5 and lower. You could of course use them but keep in my they grow rapidly in spring and are prone to swarming more.


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## Seymore (May 1, 2009)

Jah. mahn, but isn't Sue Cobey in zone 9???


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## thomas (Apr 23, 2006)

Howdy i live in zone 4 and all i have is carni's and some caucasians mine handle heat well and they have slowed down laying but are keeping strong hives love them winter well here and buildup well too.

Thomas Yancey


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## NW_Mark (Jan 23, 2012)

Seymore said:


> Jah. mahn, but isn't Sue Cobey in zone 9???


http://honeybee.breeding.com/

Coupeville, WA 98239 Zone 8b


And WSU does some of the breeding in Mt Vernon Wa


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## Seymore (May 1, 2009)

NW_Mark said:


> http://honeybee.breeding.com/
> 
> Coupeville, WA 98239 Zone 8b
> 
> ...


NW Mark, thanks for taking the time to send me a link.... went there . . . not sure what I'm supposed to find from this, other than really neat information on how to instrumentally inseminate. Did I miss something? Looking for performance in ZONE 7 or higher. I didn't see anything that related to that there. But wow - fascinating how they do the i.i.!


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## Seymore (May 1, 2009)

No zone 7 or higher users of NWC???


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## Jaseemtp (Nov 29, 2010)

Seymore I had asked the same question last year and I told in our climate the NWCs were not the best bee.


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## Seymore (May 1, 2009)

Thanks for reply. Hmmm. I wonder why. I have checked with a couple of breeders, and of course they say they would do fine. Maybe the fact that no one is answering is an answer???


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## Jaseemtp (Nov 29, 2010)

The response I have been given is they are more adapted to colder climates that what we have. I in zone 7 also or some will say 7b. I was told it is better to run more of an italian based bee. That being said, if you have a few hives and want to give it a shot. I dont see a reason why not. I think next year I will get 4 or 5 queens and see how they stack up.


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## Seymore (May 1, 2009)

That's the funny thing to me. "...more adapted to colder climates" is what I hear a lot. I guess that doesn't - to me - necessarily equate to "does not do well in heat." I can see the jump there, but that doesn't mean it is so. Stubbornness doesn't always pay off tho...


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## Jaseemtp (Nov 29, 2010)

Well I can be pretty stubborn and I am more if a show me person. That being said the best way for me to find out is to get a few and see
How well they in our 100+ temps


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## Nature Coast beek (Jun 10, 2012)

What's the major concern with trying them? That they wouldn't be able to take the heat? I suspect the reason why more go with Italian stock in the warmer zones is due to the Italian nature. Italians are more of a brooder where the carniolans (from all that I've researched) scale it back, going into winter with a smaller cluster. This helps the carni cluster make it through the winter and less likely to devour their reserves. I don't think hot temps are an issue. From what I gather, the carni does build back rapidly once temps are higher and this quick build does introduce swarming issues. So they scale it back, make it through the winter then build numbers back quickly. 

The most likely reason Italian stock is preferred in the warmer climates is due to the economics and timing of pollination contracts and services. Almonds come into pollination season early and the Southern pollinators would probably have more full hives to send with Italians than carniolans. I don't have any carni stock so I have no first hand knowledge of the NWC. I just think it's more issues of practicality at play than anything else. Just some info. from what I've researched. Good Luck.


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## Seymore (May 1, 2009)

Jaseemtp said:


> Well I can be pretty stubborn and I am more if a show me person. That being said the best way for me to find out is to get a few and see
> How well they in our 100+ temps


That's what I'm in the process of doing. Just like to hedge my bets. And.... if EVERYTHING pointed to "no way, no how!" I could save myself some money.


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## Seymore (May 1, 2009)

Nature, yes, major concern is the heat. Everything sounds pretty good about them, and if I order some, maybe some will acclimate. They certainly sound worth a try. I just found it curious most are northern users. Maybe that's because the cold is more of an issue for bees than is the heat. 

I like the sound of scaling back on brood and being conservative with resources. But I only know enough still to be dangerous!  I am not fond of the Italians for their robbing - BIG TIME. I also have found them very swarmy. I understand the NWC have been bred to minimize that. Possibly just means I get to get into my bees sooner???  Woooo hoooo!


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

I'm on the boundary between zones 7 & 8. I've used NWC from Strachan Apiaries in the past and the bees did very well. In my area, the spring flow is very brief, so having a bee that can build up quickly is a big plus. That said, I'm currently not running NWC, as I'm currently running nearly exclusively Pol-Line from Glenn. Try a couple NWC just to see how they perform in your location. I suspect that you'll be pleased. Its probably equally as important to find a good breeder, Strachan bees were very good (at least they were 5 years back), but there are likely others that have good NWC queens too.


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## Seymore (May 1, 2009)

That's helpful information, Astro, thanks. Have contacted Strachan for info but have not heard word from them yet. That was 2 or 3 days ago. Am considering Honey Run Apiaries - any experience with them? They are also part of the Sue Cobey stock. Thanks!


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

No direct experience with his queens, but I've interacted with him online and seems like a great guy. He's selling NWC from Sue Cobey's stock - it shouldn't get much better than that.


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## matt1954 (Sep 8, 2010)

I have 100 colonies of Carnis in Virginia. they do well in our heat and as you probably know we have had some extreme heat this summer. They are currently on pollination after our honey flow. Now, I felt the honey production was not that great this year. But everyone is telling me that their honey production was less than stellar so I dont neccesarily think it is the bees. I just received two Carni breeder queens from VP Queens in Frederick, MD to support our 2013 queen operation.


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## Seymore (May 1, 2009)

Thanks for the input, guys. I'm going to give them a shot. Btw, I have read they (NWC) are quite gentile, but maybe a smidge less than Italians. True??


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## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

matt1954 said:


> I have 100 colonies of Carnis in Virginia. they do well in our heat and as you probably know we have had some extreme heat this summer.... They are currently on pollination after our honey flow. Now, I felt the honey production was not that great this year. But everyone is telling me that their honey production was less than stellar so I dont neccesarily think it is the bees. I just received two Carni breeder queens from VP Queens in Frederick, MD to support our 2013 queen operation.


Matt, how do your VP bees do in the quantity of propolis they produce? How late can you ship Spartan queens this year? Thanks!


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## thenance007 (May 25, 2011)

Bump
Would love to hear how your Carnis are doing, if you got some. I just purchased 2 Carniolan queens from Kelley's (don't think they are NW). I'm really surprised not to hear about more people raising them in areas like ours with short Spring flow and long Summer dearth. Shutting down brood in dearths and winter along with gentleness, low robbing tendencies, good varroa resistance, long tongues for clover, and rapid Spring buildup makes them sound ideal compared to Italians.


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## Seymore (May 1, 2009)

Bump???

Well, I truly thought I stayed ahead of their buildup and was on top of their swarming, but alas... They swarmed. No doubt operator error compounded by early warm spring weather. I really will have to have them through the summer, though, to see how they really do - when the drought hits! So... So far so good!


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

Sue Cobey had them at UCD in Davis Ca and that is hot in the summer. I'm not sure, but suspect she still has some there. 

I like Carniolans here, and today it was 98 and tomorrow it is supposed to be 101. They do better for here than Italians. As has been posted by others, they slow brooding when no nectar coming in. I can get more honey from carnis with less bees than i can Italian, and less feeding to a small degree. I agree with others, they over winter in smaller clusters so pollinators of almonds and other early crops might do better with Italians. Proper feeding of pollen and syrup in our summer/fall dearth is needed to have healthy bees into winter, no matter the breed of bee.


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## Kirk Osborne (Oct 7, 2012)

Zone 5a here. Carnis ALL THE WAY! Carnis are the most gentle bee you can get to my knowledge. They swarm alot, so you have to keep an eye on that... but the queen will manage her laying rate, which makes winter storage consumption much better. Good luck!


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

Oh BTW I'm in zone 9B


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## spunky (Nov 14, 2006)

I like the queens I get from Tim A. at Honeyrun in Ohio . I am zone 5 and I like the way they go thru winter, did a side by side compairson with Italian cross hive, and the NWC consumed 30% less stores. I dont find them anymore gentle though than the Italians , better than the Russian and Russian crosses I had


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## woodyard (Apr 12, 2005)

Seymore, I have been running some nwc from Strachan for a couple of years. I liked them and have been mating with the locals. I can't see anymore swarming as compared to the other types. I think they do well in the heat, I am in upper northwest TN. Fast buildup and shutdown during deaths works pretty good. I have several queens coming in a couple of weeks to keep injecting them I to the mix.


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## Kamon A. Reynolds (Apr 15, 2012)

sometimes I work my 4 carni hives without a veil. I have fooled in there without smoke sometimes to. mine are very gentle.


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