# Instrumental Insemination Equipment



## Michael Bush

You might ask here:
http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/ii_list.html

http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/ii_methods.html

Some more info:
http://www.besamungsgeraet.de/__en/

this:
http://www.besamungsgeraet.de/__en/catalog-items/

Says it's 6.8 mm inside apparently with a taper to 5mm.


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## BEES4U

This might help:
Queenholder tube set

Art.-No 1.51
Backup-tube (left side)
Art.-No 1.52
Holding-tube (right, inside Ø 6,8 / 5 mm)
Good Luck.


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## Little boy blue

Jpoindexter said:


> I'm attempting to fabricate an instrumental insemination device, can anyone give me the ideal inside diameter for the tube that holds the queen?
> 
> -Jay


Hi Jay

I'm now starting to gather a few items for the same task, it would be great to bounce a few ideas off of each other.
I have got a cheap supply of glass tubes for making my own spindle and now making my own glass tubes come injection units, for the collection of the sperm I'm using a pepette vaccum handle used in the labs.


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## kilocharlie

Just look for a large diameter pen with a clear plastic lower end, disassemble it, disc sand the tip little by little until the queen's abdomen sticks part way out. Then lightly deburr or raduis the inside diameter a tiny bit with 1000 grit Wet-or-Dry sand paper. A clear vynyl hose goes from the CO2 source to the queen holder.

I make a very cheap unit for $50.00 out of off-the-shelf parts. You'll groan when you see it - its so simple. This does not include CO2 bottle, nor regulator, nor microscope, nor syringe, just the fixture stand. PM me if you want one.

OOPS! Just notice it is a resurrected thread from 2012...oh, well, have a go at it!


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## Little boy blue

I know the pens you mean, the BIC clear biro pen, great idea thanks, some of the older ideas are sometimes the best.


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## johno

Kilocharlie, I tried to PM you but your box is full, How about posting your set up with some pics.
Johno


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## kilocharlie

Tried to answer and the server kicked my reply down the tube.

I just cleared a few old PMs.

Anyways, there is nearly ZERO market for these things, so I will not be patenting anything. Have a go yourself if you wish, or, I'll be happy to build you one.

I made my unit out of 2 items from Harbor Freight Tools and some hardware store items. The HFT items were two different magnifying glass stands for soldering small stuff. There is a light weight model and a slightly heavier one. I cannibalized the 2 to make one I.I. stage device, removed the magnifying glasses, swapped out and/or modified the arms, and had to drill 1 hole. I used 2 of their dental picks for the sting chamber hooks.

The hardware store parts were mostly clear vynyl tubing and adapters and a brass valve to connect and regulate the CO2 system to the queen holding cone.

I have a dumb phone that does have a camera. I can't quite figure out how to post photos with it. I did own a digital camera for awhile, and Oldtimer and InTheSwamp helped me get some photos up, but the [email protected]^^ thing promptly died on me. I bought another digital camera and it got stolen before I got home. :scratch:

I'll get some help from any local friend that knows how this goes. I'll go buy the parts and make another I.I. stage fixture, and try to post an "Oldtimer" or a "Lauri" quality thread about it.

This is NOT a high-quality I.I. device, and y'all are gonna groan when you see it, its so simple. I now have a CO2 tank, still need a regulator, a microscope, and a Harbo syringe (just buy the one from Dr.Cobey - it's the best!).

Yay! my post went up


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## Little boy blue

Hi KC

I have been practicing the sperm collection using one of these handy devices that I used to use in my medical days, using plain old full cream milk as a substitute, the small wheel has great control and is very accurate. They are well made and come apart to clean.

https://www.sciquip.co.uk/products/liquid-handling/pipettes/pipette-pumps.html

Here is the same pipettes as mine being used, the red is the larger dia unit, but the blue 2ml version is good for me. The orifice of the pipettes has a tapered medical grade rubber cone that can accommodate tubes right down to two millimetres so you can add a plastic hose for use as an ancillary or remote device.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2WZ6sREzCsc

I'm also part way into make a drop rig to make my own glass pipettes, found a really good scientific glass blowers here in the U.K. who are very helpful indeed, 1.5. Meters of 3, 4 and five millimetre tube are a buck each.

I chose glass versus plastic because plastic has harmful BPA's in it or Bishenol A,s which can be detrimental to sperm as these chemicals can slowly leach into the fluid, this is something I learned about thirty years ago when working in the labs whilst preparing live samples, always use glass if you can.

I would be interested to find out what diameter the tiny balls, I.E. green and blue are used in the Shelly Co2 unit, because the graduated tube is a standard syringe or can be made using one I'm told.

Co2 can be bought in the small throw away one quart welding cansisters, these should last a fair while.


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## kilocharlie

Welcome to Beesource, 'Blue!

Love your enthusiasm, but I would just get the Harbo syringe. The needles are just right for extracting drone semen (you'll probably need loupes for this - I need 15 power), and the capacity is huge. You and 2 friends can draw semen from drones all day long and not fill it. You can see it on her website. If you can make one, more power to you.

www.honeybeeinsemination.com

Click on "equipment" at the top of the home page.

The efficiency comes with a slightly better stage than mine that is easier to make repeatable. Mine just makes I.I. possible, not fast, unless you are very mechanically adept at small stuff. A clever, persistent person could succeed with it.

The entire process is some effort and money- a strong apiary, queen rearing yards, the queen bank, the drone bank, the queen and drone holding/shipping cages, the I.I. system, the record keeping system.

The 'scope is not cheap, but there is the internet.* DO* order Dr. Cobey's DVD.

Meanwhile, she has posted this one last year ( a 2007 publication by Ohio State Univ.), best internet I.I. video I've seen to date.

https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/...d=64d7fd37cb04015668dab41b02004ca&action=view

You have to click on the one in the lower right corner with Sue's picture on it - Part I is 19:03 long. The one above it is Part II, it looks about 6:05 long. You may have to X the video of Part I in order to find Part II.

After watching the video, I get an appreciation as to how nice that Schley device really is. The goal in a breeding program is to get a whole bunch of them laying eggs, so you'll want a LOT of practice and a LOT of successes. There are a lot of steps, each one has to be mastered. That means a lot of fails along the way.

I believe the video sold in the catalogs of her explaining I.I. is longer, so probably even more detailed. It's only about 30 bucks, a huge bargain. I'd get that, try to get set up, and reserve a summer class with her at Whidbey Island, or take the U.C. Davis or WSU courses. You need to understand the genetics program goals driving the need for I.I., not just inseminate them. That's at least a year study if you're already way into it, and there's nobody in the world better to teach you this practice, although I suppose Dr. Schley and Dr. Latshaw are pretty good, too.

In preparation for her classes, read Queen Rearing and Bee Breeding, by Dr. Harry H. Laidlaw, Jr and Dr. Robert Page, Jr., if you have not already done so.


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## Little boy blue

https://s28.postimg.org/uvy317z31/IMG_0057.jpg

https://s28.postimg.org/xptdy2agd/IMG_0058.jpg

I have found the cushman site invaluable over the years, I made these plug cutters from K&S tubing from the States, from 7/16, inch and a half long, sharpened to a razor edge one end, I have cut perfect plugs from comb without damaging it.

Then slide the wooden plug home to push the plug slightly out the end, works really well.


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## Little boy blue

One of our group has her DVD which we can watch.

My system is almost like the Harpo, but we use the pipettes pump in place of the turn buckle type, it does the same thing really and sucks, no pun intended..

I will post some pictures when I get the one piece spindles made.

This will be our light source.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/dbk/Rols...qid=1481763141&sr=8-4&keywords=flexible+torch

Can't wait to get going to be honest.


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## kilocharlie

I love your light source.

I have a cousin who does smooth muscle research at U. N. Reno, his research partner makes awesome pipettes small enough to barely poke through a cell wall and introduce precise fluids. He built a machine that controls the heat to a small fraction of a degree and uses piezoelectric servos to stretch and to break them apart, microns at a time. Guess I should go talk to him about making me up a batch of I.I. needles.

Thanks for resurrecting this old thread and getting my blood flowing again. I really ought to get up to the shop and build a microscope. It need not be anything super fancy. I should just try to find some retired optics with a very fine rack and pinon gear set, make mounts for the right kind of lens, get my old lens grinder buddy to make me up a set of something to handle the 5x - 45x range.

BTW, how many active in your UK group? I see that Dave Cushman's site had something like 80 I.I. enthusiasts at one point. I'd love to get in on the chats. Adam Finkelstein has a good forum last I saw.


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## Little boy blue

We have four in our group and looking for more, all retired and get bored during the long winter months, I like to keep the old grey busy and this little project is doing that.

Have a look at the girl making bio needles for insemination.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vH1Uw85tSFY

I found this stereo but it might be too powerful 

http://www.hometrainingtools.com/20x-iexplore-stereo-microscope


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## JSL

Little boy blue said:


> https://s28.postimg.org/uvy317z31/IMG_0057.jpg
> 
> https://s28.postimg.org/xptdy2agd/IMG_0058.jpg


Very nice!


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## JSL

kilocharlie said:


> Welcome to Beesource, 'Blue!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I believe the video sold in the catalogs of her explaining I.I. is longer, so probably even more detailed. It's only about 30 bucks, a huge bargain. I'd get that, try to get set up, and reserve a summer class with her at Whidbey Island, or take the U.C. Davis or WSU courses. You need to understand the genetics program goals driving the need for I.I., not just inseminate them. That's at least a year study if you're already way into it, and there's nobody in the world better to teach you this practice, although I suppose Dr. Schley and Dr. Latshaw are pretty good, too.


Well said Kilocharlie! II is just a tool, it has to work with everything else. Sue is a great instructor as she has a really soft touch with the queens. Well worth the time if you have the opportunity to work with her!


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## JSL

Little boy blue said:


> I found this stereo but it might be too powerful
> 
> http://www.hometrainingtools.com/20x-iexplore-stereo-microscope


It could work, but when faced with fixed objectives, I prefer 10X over 20X. 20X just seems to close for me. With a zoom, I normally work in the 12-15X range.


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## JSL

I enjoy designing and making instruments. Beekeepers will often share with me that they have made their own equipment, but are embarrassed to share it because it is "too crude or simple". Let's see some pics of "homemade" equipment and I will dig up some photos of my early work too. Don't be shy!


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## Little boy blue

Hi JSL

This was my third attempt at hand drawing a spindle this afternoon, the tube is boracilicate grade 4.00 mm diameter, 0.8 wall thickness, I used a standard blow lamp but the heat was slightly under parr so I used the mini torch which has a much finer hotter concentrated flame.

The tip is less than 1.00mm, my idea is to get one which will act as tube and needle in one section.

https://s30.postimg.org/s3pvmbj01/IMG_0060.jpg

There are several cheaper end stereo scopes but they all tend to start at 20 times mag, do you know of any other affordable units less than 200.


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## Little boy blue

I made these two brass smokers a few years ago to an old English design, they work pretty well for the quick inspection, the fuel lasts about fifteen to twenty minutes.

https://s19.postimg.org/dm8xcljo3/20160923_092400.jpg


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## johno

I have obtained a Nikon stereo zoom 15x eyepieces by 0.8 to 4 zoom which gives me 12 times magnification up to 60 times. I have heard some talking about fitting a Barlow lens to increase focal depth but will have to see how this will work. Any further ideas are really appreciated.
Johno


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## JSL

Little boy blue said:


> The tip is less than 1.00mm, my idea is to get one which will act as tube and needle in one section.
> 
> https://s30.postimg.org/s3pvmbj01/IMG_0060.jpg
> 
> There are several cheaper end stereo scopes but they all tend to start at 20 times mag, do you know of any other affordable units less than 200.


It looks nice, but that one is going to hurt. The tips are so fine and delicate, you may be better off pulling them out of a smaller material. 

I don’t know of any scopes off hand that come in under 200. You may have to keep your eyes open for a used scope on the internet.


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## JSL

Little boy blue said:


> I made these two brass smokers a few years ago to an old English design, they work pretty well for the quick inspection, the fuel lasts about fifteen to twenty minutes.
> 
> https://s19.postimg.org/dm8xcljo3/20160923_092400.jpg


Beautiful!


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## JSL

johno said:


> I have obtained a Nikon stereo zoom 15x eyepieces by 0.8 to 4 zoom which gives me 12 times magnification up to 60 times. I have heard some talking about fitting a Barlow lens to increase focal depth but will have to see how this will work. Any further ideas are really appreciated.
> Johno


That should be perfect. Nikon scopes have nice optics!


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## Little boy blue

JSL said:


> It looks nice, but that one is going to hurt. The tips are so fine and delicate, you may be better off pulling them out of a smaller material.
> 
> I don’t know of any scopes off hand that come in under 200. You may have to keep your eyes open for a used scope on the internet.


I was thinking the points might be on the small side, I will try a little more heat when I get the replacement cyclinders after the new year and have a go then, I will buy some two millimetre rods next, but if I can get the 4.0 to work it a bonus for what I have in mind.

Been busy in the shop today and things are moving along nicely.

Thanks.


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## JSL

This is one of the first syringes I made. It is the fine adjustment guts from a microscope and a 1cc glass syringe complete with a leather plunger seal and cherry wood barrel. This is old school!


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## Little boy blue

Please could you advise the best dia spindle tip to acquire after drawing out.


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## JRG13

regarding the pipette,

You could pull one fine enough if you're careful from that. I was aspirating day old larva with one I made this year and I didn't have to pull that one very small.


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## JSL

Little boy blue said:


> I was thinking the points might be on the small side, I will try a little more heat when I get the replacement cyclinders after the new year and have a go then, I will buy some two millimetre rods next, but if I can get the 4.0 to work it a bonus for what I have in mind.
> 
> Been busy in the shop today and things are moving along nicely.
> 
> Thanks.


To give you an idea, I use a tip opening, ID, of about 0.008” or 0.20mm give or take. I normally start with 1.2-1.4mm glass pipettes for pulling.


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## Little boy blue

The spindle I made today is only half a millimetre I/D but with a little practice I should be able to get the desired diameters, it was a lack of heat that prevented the tip from drawing out properly, it has to be right I know so more playing until it's optimum.

The girl on the link I put up earlier made it look so easy and she was using much thinner gauge tube and double drawing it, very experienced operator indeed.

I have found a novel way of cutting the tubes, I use an old diamond coated router cutter and roll it on the edge of it, snaps really clean when it's scored.

I noticed that some ends are fired gently after cutting to round over the very edges of the tip, will have to try this too, it will save on deburrring later.


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## Little boy blue

Here is my project so far, I will give as accurate step by step tutorial as possible, and edit as I go so nothing gets lost.

Here are the basic parts.

https://s24.postimg.org/on07pznj9/IMG_0062.jpg

https://s23.postimg.org/7eznesc9n/IMG_0068.jpg

Here one has two 1/4" bore rods ends, nylon insert.

http://www.bearingboys.co.uk/Rod-Ends-GrNylon-Race/FP04-14inch-Right-Hand-Rod-End-Bearing-88403-p

The next item is the needle body, which consists of a wooden body made from English holly, a section of 1/2" wide brass strip 5/64 thick, which fit into a slot cut so they sit flush, two nickel silver, or they can be made from brass, pivots are hand turned on the wood lathe using HSS wood turning tools, the old fashioned way using hand turning skills.

One pivot is drilled with a 4.00 mm hole the other tapped out to 4.00 mm, there is a two inch 4.00 mm all thread bolt and spring and the brass axle and two self washer 5.00 mm nuts.

https://s27.postimg.org/4ms9kosrn/IMG_0071.jpg

One can comfortably reach around each post to manipulate the tools into place.

https://s28.postimg.org/7gbaqth0t/IMG_0079.jpg

The rod ends are threaded onto a brass rod 1/4 inch diameter and tapped firmly into a pilot in the wooden base, to get them tight so they don't move drill the last half in a size below or you can glue them in, I prefer the former so you can remove them from below using a drift if needed.
The rod end post also have a full inch thread so there is ample range for vertical adjustment if needed.

The rod ends have a three inch 1/4" tube fitted through the pivot bearing and are secured via a piece of shrink wrap either side, then the 7/32" tube with its pin vice slide through that, to get the desired amount of resistance on the outer tube all you need to do is very gently tap the 1/4" tube to dissform it until you have slight interference fit, do this a tiny bit at a time until you have the desired damping needed.

1 X 1/4" ' and 1 X 7/32 brass tube are from K & S tubing from the United States, most good model shops carry this as standard, their wall thickness is 1/64 and they fit inside each other perfectly.

Inside the 7/32" brass tube fit two mini pin chucks perfectly, you can glue them in if you like using a tiny dot of super glue, and to remove it again afterwards all you need is a little hear from a cigarette lighter and the glue will melt again, here is where I got mine from.

http://www.rnhorological.co.uk/images/Pin Vices/IMGA0683T-S232 RN.jpg

And here is where I got the brass tubing.

https://www.phillsmodels.com

Showing the needle post, not yet fully complete with its pump or adjuster, to follow next.

https://s24.postimg.org/o6a4sshs5/IMG_0077.jpg


https://s28.postimg.org/5ew7ves31/IMG_0078.jpg


https://s23.postimg.org/fjhib3q6z/IMG_0076.jpg

The pivots can be moved well out of the way to place the queen and tube into place, the apparatus for this will also be unique and multi adjustable for ease of use, to follow also.

https://s24.postimg.org/g6ygyzthx/IMG_0080.jpg

This is an able prototype I think and inexpensive for anyone to have a go at making one.

I'm already working on the next one which will be based on this one but with a unique feed in system for the injection, that anyone will be able to handle.

Everything sits on top of the Ash wooden base covered with a nice strip of polished leather for comfort, the hands can also be rested upon the board making everything very secure.

Thanks for looking, questions please, ideas definitely.


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## johno

Little Boy Blue, I am impressed. I have the microscope but that is as far as I have got. I will be 73 soon and have felt that spending a large amount of money on the equipment at my age would not give me a reasonable return on the investment. Some times I sits and thinks and sometimes I just sits, so seeing what you have accomplished will now stop me from just sitting and start me thinking. I will follow your postings on this subject with interest and see if I can add something in the future.
Johno


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## Little boy blue

Thanks Johno

I'm not quite sixty yet but beginning to feel like it when we are in the yard or garden allotment digging.

You can get the parts at your side of the pond for sure, and most parts bar a couple are in imperial sizes.

For your base, make it an 18 inch triangle, with rounded corners, not a long one like the one shown, so you can fit your microscope in a hole at the centre and the posts at either side, I have a scope in mind that can be mounted to this board using just the main post, I'm sure you can see where this is headed.

I got the idea from lab equipment in my medical years so I know what to aim for, but all will be revealed as they say.

I'm also having some 3D printed queen bee training models made that I have drawn up in Solidworks, so you can practice out of season and not on live specimens or wasting gas at the very beginning.

If your going to follow wait until I show the next model, but do make the posts and arms, pin vices etc as these will be added to the new model.

I'm not doing this as a commercial enterprise but will be copyrighting certain items as I go, thus self copyrighting the design to stop people from monopolising it at a later date commercially, but everything is free to who ever, in the words of my grandfather, we must whenever possible help those who want to help themselves.

Respect 

Danny.


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## RBRamsey

I was looking to try something along this line for this spring. I seen one other self made stand, that is similar in style to yours. It is helpful to have the details you are posting.

Thanks for the posts.


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## Little boy blue

Hi RB

Did you by any chance keep some pictures of the other home grown idea?


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## al-kul

very interesting topic
do you see the possibility of using a cell phone with a macro lens, instead of the microscope
http://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/mercury...d-vr-headset/6000196164078?rrid=richrelevance, whether it is just a sick imagination of the old man?


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## Little boy blue

Hi al

That's a cool idea, just watched a few tests on the tube and it looks like it would work, if you could use the phones camera to do the looking.

I tried my Samsung J 3 just now and it focuses down to around and inch or so but hunts for focus, I wonder if you can blue tooth to a larger screen like you lap top to get a view that way.

Thanks for the heads up, cheers.


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## al-kul

thought of such lenses to celphone
https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesal...ne+macro+lens&initiative_id=RS_20161216163516
and the linc of the previous post is to serve as a stereoscope, I do not know whether it is clear what I invented


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## Little boy blue

Something really cool if it works instead of a microscope.

Check out the quality visuals.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oUyzf45j-2M

Now all we need is one that will focus close and let you work under it as well.

Maybe

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Fbi6L3GEj9Q


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## JSL

Danny,

The prototype is looking nice! I like your craftsmanship. One word of caution though is leather may not be a surface of choice. It is nice to wipe things down with alcohol and I am not sure how well the leather will hold up over time.

Your instrument looks like a Laidlaw-Goss (I think it was Goss) instrument published in the bee journals many years back. I have one I built around here some place. I need to dig it out and get a pic!

Another interesting read.

https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/hal-00891146/document

Graham/Rader, if you are watching, do you know where to find a PDF of this article below?

Laidlaw-Goss queen bee pre-set artificial insemination instrument.
Journal Title:American bee journal.
Journal Volume/Issue:Nov 1990. v. 130 (11)
Main Author:Laidlaw, H.H. Jr.Other Authors:Goss, J.R.Format:*Article*Language:English
Subjects:queen honey bees 
Apis mellifera 
artificial insemination 
equipment 
purchasing 
United States 
For More Info:View in NAL's Catalog.


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## Little boy blue

Hi JSL

I Caught that article earlier on your URL GREAT READ and lots of ideas in there, liked the part where it mentioned freedom of movement for opening the vaginal flap by having more freedom doing it manually, this is what gave me the idea of a free floating needle movement, which my next prototype will enable.

I have done some very fine work in the path labs this way entirely by hand so I know it can be done, the bee model is a little easier to achieve because your dealing with millimetres instead of thousands of an inch like I was doing.

The idea is to have a fully supported and hanging needle and dampened, so that it can be moved entirely by hand without all the graduated rack and pinion set up, but have depth stops so you cannot go in too deep, I will build one pretty soon to see how it performs.

I know it can be done because I have used similar devices in the path lab, some of which we made ourselves in the early days, I have lots of ideas, and now the latest 3D software to draw it out first as I normally do today, to save wasting time and materials, Solidworks is the engine of choice today, what you see on the screen is what you get in reality.

Thanks again.


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## Little boy blue

Is this what your looking for JSL

http://wncbees.org/wp-content/uploa...y-Bee-Instrumental-Insemination-NCSU-2.14.pdf

https://www.researchgate.net/public...or_Multiple_Inseminations_of_Honey_Bee_Queens


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## JSL

No, those are not the articles I was thinking of. Laidlaw and Goss wrote an ABJ article describing a simple, mostly off the shelf instrument using rod-end ball joints. However, the link above that you shared has an image in it that is of a very rare Laidlaw Instrument. There were only a handful ever made, about 7 I think at a cost of about $3000 each at the time. All movement were controlled by micro manipulators.


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## JSL

Anyone tried this instrument?

http://www.brunelmicroscopes.co.uk/honeybees.html


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## Little boy blue

I see it has a metal version of the Harpo pump, looks very complicated like the others but it will need a bit better finish to the components as deep scratches can harbour bacteria.


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## Little boy blue

I have made a few amendment to the second prototype.

I have found a better way of securing the outer slider housings for the two internal sliding pin vices, I filed two small slots using a jewellers needle file for two rubber O rings to locate the tube either side of the ball joint, these also act as dampeners to the pin vice slide with just the right amount of grip to prevent things for moving, the feel is really good.

These tiny pin vices are idea as it allows for multiple hooks and guides to be made and removed for cleaning, I have seen some pretty dirty tools on several videos when they are fixed ends, at the prices these cost you can have several to hand ready made for a quick change over if required, simply slide them in and out.

https://s29.postimg.org/7wucndr47/IMG_0081.jpg

https://s23.postimg.org/me7acx4ej/IMG_0084.jpg

https://s23.postimg.org/54as87knf/IMG_0082.jpg

And a newer base made from quality birch ply 3/4" and glued a PB 102 bronze plate to the top using contact adhesive, JSL rightly point out that this will need to be wiped down with alcohol etc, bronze has good antibacterial properties and is tougher and more scratch resistant than copper.

The base may need rubber feet under it to lift above some scopes base plates.

https://s24.postimg.org/u370vtkol/IMG_0087.jpg

https://s30.postimg.org/cv2bw4d1t/IMG_0085.jpg

The hands can comfortably circumnavigate the tool post like before, thus keeping a good hold of the base as you work under the scope.

https://s30.postimg.org/vhtft4xox/IMG_0086.jpg

One thing I learned using scopes is, if your illuminating a white subcutaneous substances like the queen bees nether regions, it's sometimes best to use a coloured light source, as this shows up the delicate folds within, different colours show different attributes etc.

The queen post will be fully adjustable in X Y Z Planes, upon a locking ball gimble like a camera tripod head, but once you find the optimum height for working you won't need to adjust things as much, but the tool posts can be adjusted for height and angle if required, via the full inch of thread within the rod end body, this eliminates clutter and cost of the overall set up.

Plenty of ideas here,

http://www.bearingboys.co.uk/Ball-Joints-3720-c

http://www.springfixlinkages.com/en...-joints/lockable-ball-and-socket-joints/r3540

This may be my final version to use, now for the next stage and the fully floating injection apparatus.


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## Little boy blue

This is not bee related but where I got the idea of the spring adjuster from. It's a leather strap cutter that I made several years ago, the ergonomics might give folks a few more ideas in how they decide to make their versions of tools or tooling.

https://s23.postimg.org/shwzmx7i3/IMG_0088.jpg

https://s28.postimg.org/x0cz98ncd/IMG_0089.jpg

https://s24.postimg.org/8c7jkk9hx/IMG_0090.jpg

All brass body and cam lock adjustment, handle in Hazel from our farm.

Thanks for looking.


----------



## JSL

Coming along nicely! Do the rod ends have much tension on the ball inside? In your pics, the "hooks" are tilted down. I wasn't sure if that is just the way you positioned them or if they drift that way? The instruments I made with rod-end ball joints needed a little tension on the ball joints. It is a delicate process to tap and thread one of those without messing up the smooth surface and movement. I used nylon thumb screws to put tension/pressure on the ball.


----------



## Little boy blue

Hi JSL

The ball joints are quite tight and can easily support the arms at full length and you still have to push them down, these should last a good few years before they need either some thick spray grease or. If you look at the picture of how the nylon rod ends are made, you will see the injection hole where they are filled when they are injection mounded, this can be drilled and tapped out to an 1/8" and a nylon screw fitted to tighten things up, but I don't think they will need it for quite a while.

To do this, remove all the fittings, turn the ball centre towards the injection hole so it doesn't mark the surface before you drill and tap. I may do this at some stage but only if needed.

https://s28.postimg.org/hi1v3qavx/IMG_0095.jpg

https://s27.postimg.org/6kie5kaqb/IMG_0092.jpg

I found the ideal kit for the queen post, I borrowed one of my surface gauge clamps for now, the tubes are both 11/32" and 1/4" respectfully, I will turn some wooden bodies to house the queens, this way I have more control over internal sizing.

https://s29.postimg.org/6vyqtj2if/IMG_0094.jpg

https://s27.postimg.org/dvf8lyi9v/IMG_0091.jpg

For the gas I can insert an angled connector into the queen post tube underneath.

Forgot to mention this earlier, "do not !" cut the tube using a pipe cutter or it will compress the wall and you will have a lot of work getting the tubes to slide inside each other, better to use a fine metal saw or jewlerers file and work your way around carefully.


----------



## johno

I have ordered some mini pin chucks and will order ball joint bearing ends from Amazon, would it be an advantage to have the microscope fixed directly to the base? If I bolted a 12" piece of 1" round bar to the base the microscope could come off its stand and go onto the base. Once I have the bearing ends the next job would be to locate some brass tubing to suite, so the saga begins.
Johno


----------



## Little boy blue

Here is a place that does tubing.

http://www.hobbylinc.com/brass-hobby-and-craft-metal-tubing

The brand is K & S tubing USA

http://ksmetals.com

.


----------



## Little boy blue

Here is my home made Harbo style pump, from the scrap box, two water pipe bungs turned down to fit a small section of K & S tubing which luckily fit over the ends perfectly.
I hand turned them in the wood lathe as I normall do, using the standard HSS gouges, which is a pleasure to do when working in brass.

https://s27.postimg.org/u0ofq0lib/IMG_0097.jpg

https://s30.postimg.org/tgxpcgbpd/IMG_0100.jpg

https://s27.postimg.org/kz8z9gn2r/IMG_0103.jpg

https://s29.postimg.org/51s58kp53/IMG_0104.jpg

She works a treat with a very gentle draw rate, cosy including the o ring about a Dollar.


----------



## Little boy blue

Check out these beauties

http://burkardscientific.co.uk/agronomics/index.htm


----------



## Little boy blue

Queen intro cage, made today.

https://s23.postimg.org/uj2li73m3/IMG_0108.jpg


----------



## Little boy blue

johno said:


> I have ordered some mini pin chucks and will order ball joint bearing ends from Amazon, would it be an advantage to have the microscope fixed directly to the base? If I bolted a 12" piece of 1" round bar to the base the microscope could come off its stand and go onto the base. Once I have the bearing ends the next job would be to locate some brass tubing to suite, so the saga begins.
> Johno


Johno

Here is a viable unit for adaptation for the syringe needle mount ete.

https://www.amazon.com/OMAX-Mechanical-Stage-Biological-Microscope/dp/B00FG88P3A

Some simple x y stages here, not too expensive.

https://www.thorlabs.com/newgrouppage9.cfm?objectgroup_id=2952


----------



## JSL

Danny,

The brass is beautiful, especially with the finish you have on the pieces! A word of caution though as the saline solution tends to corrode brass pieces. Also, it is hard for me to gauge the size of the syringe, but a good displacement volume is 8-12 microliters per revolution of the syringe knob. This will give you reasonable control.

Keep up the good work!


----------



## Little boy blue

Thank you, The syringe is half an inch diameter and internal volume is two and a half inch stroke, I plant to use it independently of saline and as a vacuum pump only.

How much sperm does the average drone give?

Do you have any experience with cryogenic storage of bee semen?

I get the finish on the old buffer and the lathe the old fashioned way.

I have another couple of simpler ideas coming soon.

Thanks.


----------



## Little boy blue

Please could anyone advise what size hole best used for the sting hook on the insemination tool that I'm making.

Thanks.


----------



## beekuk

Most supplied are with 0.2mm hole size.

I prefer to use a ruby sting hook, which you could make yourself.


----------



## Little boy blue

Thanks Pete

I was wondering if I could use a jewel out of some old watch movements I have kicking about somewhere, does it have to be exactly 0.2 or can you get away with plus or minus a bit.

I know I don't have drills that small, so the jewel might be slightly bigger diameter, I have watched a couple of videos on YouTube and one said the jewel ruby helps getting the sting through the middle.

Do you use the gear you made yourself?

Dan.


----------



## beekuk

Little boy blue said:


> Do you use the gear yourself?


 Yes, I have a friend in Ireland who makes the ruby sting hooks for me.


----------



## JSL

Little boy blue said:


> Thank you, The syringe is half an inch diameter and internal volume is two and a half inch stroke, I plant to use it independently of saline and as a vacuum pump only.
> 
> How much sperm does the average drone give?
> 
> Do you have any experience with cryogenic storage of bee semen?


If the syringe is for insemination work, it sounds too coarse. Air will not work, it needs to be a fluid filled hydraulic system as the semen is very viscous and the movements are tiny. The average drone produces about 0.75-1.0 microliters of semen.

Cryopreservation is not very practical for the average inseminator.

0.2 is the upper limit for sting hooks. I prefer to go a little smaller, even down to about 0.16. I don’t use them any more… but when I did, I like to grab the sting closer to the tip.


----------



## JSL

One of my first instruments about 25 or so years ago.


----------



## Little boy blue

beekuk said:


> Yes, I have a friend in Ireland who makes the ruby sting hooks for me.


Hi

I have located some rubies and see what they mean about them guiding the sting in, they have a small dimple at the centre, here is what I have found in case others might like to have a go, I will opt for the 0.2 hole and a 3.00 mm outer as I can handle that size I think.

I looked at the watch movements I have and they are way too small, can hardly see them.

https://www.cousinsuk.com/category/jewels-seitz

It's gonna be fun for sure, but I will give it a go at three for twelve pounds ain't bad.


----------



## Little boy blue

Hi JSL

Cool set up.

I Was thinking of something similar for the needle holder when I used Holly for the body, but by using brass tube to take the needle or as the glass boys tend to call a spindle, would you say with a steady hand that one could line things up without a micrometer setup?

Got you on the fluid hydraulic model, on one of the videos it shows someone pulling the semen with only a small amount of saline above the main body of semen, maybe this is where I got swayed off of course.

I have the nylon screws on the way and will fit them as part of the final prototype just in case I think.

I'm all questions at the moment.

Is it absolutely necessary to filter the saline through the 0.2 filter to sterilise it before drawing the samples.


----------



## JSL

Little boy blue said:


> Hi
> 
> I will opt for the 0.2 hole and a 3.00 mm outer as I can handle that size I think


3mm is way too big as you will have to set the ruby in a hook. I do not care for the ruby hooks as they are bigger and clunkier than I like. I used to make perforated sting hooks out of brass and they worked just fine. You can actually make the hole with a fine sewing needle or better yet buy a micro drill bit. Below is a brass hook "drilled" with a sewing needle.


----------



## JSL

Little boy blue said:


> Hi JSL
> 
> 
> would you say with a steady hand that one could line things up without a micrometer setup?
> 
> Got you on the fluid hydraulic model, on one of the videos it shows someone pulling the semen with only a small amount of saline above the main body of semen, maybe this is where I got swayed off of course.
> 
> 
> Is it absolutely necessary to filter the saline through the 0.2 filter to sterilise it before drawing the samples.


Yes, it is possible to even “free hand” inseminate. It takes a little more skill and a lot less coffee. 

The wooden instrument I posted in similar to what you describe as the syringe is manually positioned. It just slides in the block.

You can heat sterilize the saline. Just start clean and keep it clean.


----------



## Little boy blue

Great idea of using a sewing needle for a drill, would save money buying the tiny ready made ones from the hobby shop.

I have looked through her indoors sewing box and the very finest needles are all half a millimetre, to recap, am I correct in saying that the hole is 20" thou or 0.50mm half a millimetre.

I must say this is a great place to join for information and the hospitality is very warm and welcoming indeed, thank so much thus far.


----------



## JSL

Just use the very tip of the sewing needle or sharpen one if it is a little too blunt. It takes a little practice, but you do not want to pass it through the hook, just the tip. I showed this to a friend of mine that was a a very skilled machinist and he just laughed and said I had way too much time on my hands.


----------



## JSL

Where are the other honey bee inseminators?


----------



## JRG13

They all got kicked out and died before winter....


----------



## beekuk

JSL said:


> Where are the other honey bee inseminators?


 Joe... do you also make your own forceps?


----------



## Little boy blue

JSL said:


> Just use the very tip of the sewing needle or sharpen one if it is a little too blunt. It takes a little practice, but you do not want to pass it through the hook, just the tip. I showed this to a friend of mine that was a a very skilled machinist and he just laughed and said I had way too much time on my hands.


Ahah, right got you.

This is going to leave a slightly tapered hole in the sting hook, that will match the taper of the sting itself, the more one pushes the needle inwards the larger the hole and taper will be.

I have some nice one millimetre nickel silver or Sterling silver that will make the hooks and will be easier to drill, I will give it a go tomorrow.

Cheers guys.


----------



## Little boy blue

JRG13 said:


> They all got kicked out and died before winter....


Like the answer, we human males don't know how lucky we are, lol.


----------



## JSL

JRG13 said:


> They all got kicked out and died before winter....


lol, I should have clarified...


----------



## JSL

beekuk said:


> Joe... do you also make your own forceps?


No, the Swiss and Germans are much better at making quality forceps.


----------



## Little boy blue

I was thinking today and wondered why nobody has not made a loope type noose sting grabber yet, ot maybe they have, you know one that lassoo's the sting then pulls tight.

I thought of something like a bee shaped point that is pulled back under spring tension onto a matching surface.


----------



## johno

This is a slow business, slowly have to get the goods together so I will have to refer to this thread as I progress 1 step at a time. Just keep the ideas coming, I will get up to my nearest Hobby Lobby and see if they have any brass tubing available O otherwise I will get some in from the site you recommended although they state 1/4" is out of stock, I also have a spare microscope slide adjuster I could try to use to lower the syringe.
Johno


----------



## Little boy blue

I gathered for about three weeks or so before making something, doodled in those weeks, but after joining the forum the blast of information from willing participants really got Casey Jones's engine No 1 rolling.

My grandfather was right all those years ago, his motto was, help those who want to help themselves, and if a few were struggling along, he would say, don't tell me, show me, and this is exactly what has happened here on Beesource.

I know after talking with Pete, this is no easy task, highly specialised and well worth the savings if one can bring the fruits to bare. Here we are on a very limited budget and have to watch every dime, so getting things working is a bonus for us here in the sticks, where postage can cost as much as some of the items.

What Beesource has in its data bank, is hand to eye coordination, experience, which are worth far more than money ever could be, the most valuable of all is our own labour, this is why governments think we owe them a living.


----------



## JRG13

Little boy blue said:


> I was thinking today and wondered why nobody has not made a loope type noose sting grabber yet, ot maybe they have, you know one that lassoo's the sting then pulls tight.
> 
> I thought of something like a bee shaped point that is pulled back under spring tension onto a matching surface.


Check out some fine threaders for fishing. http://www.bing.com/images/search?q...3a5ba67d5ea035a5c7bff55ab93f31efo0&ajaxhist=0

They're pretty fine, they're made to pass through the eye of small hooks, then you pass the leader through and pull it through to thread the eye. I'm betting it could catch the sting though and maybe hold it in place with just tension or slip a very small O-ring on and slide it forward to secure but you'd have to be very careful.


----------



## Little boy blue

JRG13 said:


> Check out some fine threaders for fishing. http://www.bing.com/images/search?q...3a5ba67d5ea035a5c7bff55ab93f31efo0&ajaxhist=0
> 
> They're pretty fine, they're made to pass through the eye of small hooks, then you pass the leader through and pull it through to thread the eye. I'm betting it could catch the sting though and maybe hold it in place with just tension or slip a very small O-ring on and slide it forward to secure but you'd have to be very careful.


That is exactly what I was thinking, a good material to use for this would be berillium bronze which has a nice springiness about it, I have used it for springs in my multi gateway porter type escapes, and if it was used in the vertical it could grab along the length of the sting.

Another fine wire thread here

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Silver-Thr...=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B00WJLBOSA

Fine wires

http://wireandstuff.co.uk/products/Ultra-Fine-Wire-0.1-0.2-.html

https://www.pgmetalshop.com/platinum-pt/platinum-pt-wire-microwire-fine.html

I'm going to be busy this week.


----------



## JRG13

Now I'm wondering if some of my very small fly tying hooks could do the job with just the eye alone, there's also the C n F nail knot tool that might work as well by it self. Basically a fine needle with a hole in the tip to pull line through. How about a spring loaded sting hook with a counterweight to adjust the tension?? Actually with the spring, u don't even need a counterweight, just something to micro manipulate the stretch on the spring.


----------



## beekuk

Dave Cushman has some images and thoughts about using adapted insulin needles to make perforated sting hooks, don't know if much became of this idea though.

http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/tubularhook.html


----------



## JSL

Don't over think this... Forceps work great and you can use them to remove splinters too!


----------



## Little boy blue

I think I will try using what they call in the modelling world as, plasticard, it comes in sheets of white PTFE based cards in varying thicknesses and can be cut using a scalpel, then you simply push a half millimetre sewing needle through/into it until you have the desired orifice, you could even heat the very tip of the needle and melt the hole, or use a bee sting itself maybe.

I have 1.00mm thick card here and will have a go after lunch.


----------



## Little boy blue

JRG13 said:


> Now I'm wondering if some of my very small fly tying hooks could do the job with just the eye alone, there's also the C n F nail knot tool that might work as well by it self. Basically a fine needle with a hole in the tip to pull line through. How about a spring loaded sting hook with a counterweight to adjust the tension?? Actually with the spring, u don't even need a counterweight, just something to micro manipulate the stretch on the spring.


I have just taken my small fly tying vice to pieces and there you have a similar layout to the Schelly forceps with a cylinder cut down the middle and then reduced to create a waisted section that allows the tapered front half to act as a wedge when drawn from behind against a tube end.


----------



## Little boy blue

Here is my latest idea, I took a section of 3/16" solid round brass rod, cut a slot in it at the end to take a slither of plasticard 25 thou thick and pinned it through using a 1.00 mm brass rod, the card worked out exact using a junior hacksaw and the plastic sits nice and snug in the slot, then I shaped the end of the rod to please the eye and glued it into the opposite end of one of the pin chuck arms.

https://s30.postimg.org/alejc8ny9/IMG_0110.jpg

https://s27.postimg.org/hq9e9w003/IMG_0111.jpg

The card is pretty stiff stuff and can be shaped due to it having no memory factor, so it will stay where you shape it and it cheap, the hole can be made easily and quickly with the point of a needle.

https://s29.postimg.org/r5vp043wn/IMG_0109.jpg

The ventral hook is made from a piece of silver rod which I ran one end through the jewellers mill to flatten it leaving the other end round to fit the pin chuck.

https://s24.postimg.org/7br953s05/IMG_0112.jpg

The card will flex slightly which might not be such a bad thing, as Sue in one of her video says novices like myself tend to push the sting downwards, but the plastic won't move that much due to its stiffness but will give a little.

https://s24.postimg.org/nqrozko51/IMG_0113.jpg

The card can be shaped and made to what ever size, length etc and shaped in seconds, it should work.


----------



## Little boy blue

Please could someone advise on the correct PH for saline for semen collection is this one correct?

http://www.coloss.org/beebook/I/instrumental-insemination/2/2

Good place to get your glassware in the UK

http://www.scientificglass.co.uk/co...asks,_Erlenmeyer,_Borosilicate_Glass.html#p56


----------



## Little boy blue

Whilst I was pondering as one does I remembered watching holes being made in metal sheet, what the old boys were doing, and this was in the day when I was very young and in town there were sparks coming from every other window in them days, people making things, lot of things all within walking distance.

However, what I thought I would try was to heat the 1.00 Sterling silver rod after rolling it in the mill to half a millimetre, then I secured it to my soldering plate,via a mini vice to steady it, the plate was made from fine refractory cement, and while glowing cherry red, I pierced it using a fine sewing needle secured in a small metal drill chuck.

Low and behold a fine hole was extant, it was a little small but on the next attempt a little bigger and useable.

These things are sent to try us, and sometimes the old ways are better and quicker, as Plato once said, nothing is new under the sun.


----------



## Little boy blue

A busy day in the shop, made this simple heating coil pipettes drop stand.

Made from pieces of off cuts from another project, 18,00mm birch plywood, two 10.00mm silver steel bars I had spare and a small coil of Nichrome wire that I wrapped around an 8.00mm bolt, six turns, but might need to experiment a little to get the heat and timing right for each dia glass used, might have to make two coil mount boards and slide them on and off as needed.

The hole in the coil board is 40.00mm, this is to fill with investment or plaster of Paris or similar to act as a heat shield and insulator, fill this flush and hold in place by a rear disc or similar.

The weight is aluminium 50.00mm and 25.00mm diameter and has an 8.00mm hole drilled 3/4 of the way through then a 5.00 mm hole the rest of the way, this is guided by an 8.00mm post.

The wire I salvaged from some old unused electric heat elements, dia of wire 1.00mm.

The power supply can be either a battery charger or variac which I already have, but I have been told that a household light switch come reastat can be used and has variability.

She took two hours to make costing a tenner all in.

Thanks for looking.

https://s29.postimg.org/h39xjtfyv/IMG_0115.jpg

https://s28.postimg.org/npyc7eoz1/IMG_0114.jpg

https://s30.postimg.org/ogd0gjr41/IMG_0116.jpg


----------



## Little boy blue

Im not sure how much the Harbo system is, but here is the same pump for 170 quid, maybe buy this and make your own stand.

https://www.coleparmer.co.uk/p/gilmont-micrometer-dispensers/889

And this simple version.

http://www.hamiltoncompany.com/prod...LT-Threaded-a-Plunger-SYR-NDL-Sold-Separately


----------



## Stephenpbird

Just a quick post to say how much I am enjoying this thread and to encourage its continuation. Thank you Little boy blue.


----------



## johno

Blue, what size tubing are you going to use for the tips and how will you secure the tube at the top and at the weight when you heat up. I am also interested in the parts that will secure the queen for insemination, I know the carbon dioxide comes in at the bottom so I think there are 3 parts to that system. Do you hope to have your rig going by spring when you will be able to rear queens and try it out.
Johno


----------



## Little boy blue

johno said:


> Blue, what size tubing are you going to use for the tips and how will you secure the tube at the top and at the weight when you heat up. I am also interested in the parts that will secure the queen for insemination, I know the carbon dioxide comes in at the bottom so I think there are 3 parts to that system. Do you hope to have your rig going by spring when you will be able to rear queens and try it out.
> Johno


For the top I will use a rubber o ring pushed over the glass tube above the top plate, for the weight which I have to drill and tap as yet, I will use a plastic thumb screw and a slither of shrink wrap over the end to stop crushing, you can use rubber or plastic like this guy, where I got the basic layout from. You can get a hundred of those plastic thumb screws for a few bucks online.
If you watch what he does, he slides the taper into his Verneer gauge until it stops then tilts it to break it off, Cushman says he inserts a gauge wire inside and where it stops he cuts it level with the end of the wire inserted from the wider end, but I'm sure there are lots of variants to getting the desired product.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0_ii8fS4Be0

For the tips I will go for the smaller 2.00mm glass tube as per Cushman's intro, but still try and get the 4.00 mm going as well for my original idea.

http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/makingtips.html

For the Co2 I'm going buy Pete's recommendation, mini mig welding bottle and brass tap, no flow gauge and a glass flask from the scientific glass company for a quid with cork bung and two 4.00mm glass tubes, one below water level and one above for the outlet, Pete says, one bubble per second is sufficient to narcotise the queen whilst she is in the queen post.

https://s24.postimg.org/w0ihpn0v9/IMG_0094.jpg

https://s29.postimg.org/6ssjfassn/IMG_0091.jpg

The queen post tube is part of a surface gauge clamp, they are fitted to the magnetic base versions as well. I will use a plastic tube to fit over the brass 1/4 tube and try that, and hold her in with my finger until she dozes off, if that doesn't work I will try heat forming the tube so it has a slightly smaller opening size.

I hope to have most tools done before the end of January if possible.

For the Harbo set up I'm going to do this one, or very similar using ply for the frame, using an old micrometer dial body.
The micrometer dial will want to turn so you have to use the coupling that the handle of the plunger fits inside, you don't really want the plunger to turn inside the rubber seal but be stationary, this little coupling enables this, and let the micrometer turn instead of the plunger.

https://s30.postimg.org/lrsn5rlip/IMG_0121.jpg

I'm going to swap the standard plastic plunger for a brass one due to its turnability in the wood lathe it's really simple to do and cheap.

One item I have yet to secure is the micro bore extension from the syringe to the insemination post, I know you can get these ready made but I don't know the name of them?


----------



## Little boy blue

Stephenpbird said:


> Just a quick post to say how much I am enjoying this thread and to encourage its continuation. Thank you Little boy blue.


Thank you Stephenbird, it's always good to help those who want to help themselves, if more do this the better things could be. Today many are reluctant to share their knowledge and dint with others for reasons unknown, but the venerable Pike once said that, all virtue is a struggle, and how right he was.

For myself it's unlocking the mysteries and a vision of how things might be, our links with nature and the range of the human spirit, and how the parisimoniousness of nature gives up its secrets that interests me, especially bees in the wild, and those so conditioned and domesticated as Brother Adam saw things, so are we being conditioned by those with superior knowledge.

All of what I share here is for everyone to share, I hope we can iron out any problems together.


----------



## JSL

Danny, all is coming along nicely! I think you will still need to downsize your tools. If you have a dead queen in the freezer or something, put her in your instrument to try. Space is very limited and you may have difficulty getting the hooks and tip in there.

As for your syringe, you are on the right track. The Gilmont Syringe is the driver for the Harbo. The Gilmont's used to be made of machined pieces, but to save costs, they are now all molded pieces and not the same quality of movements in my opinion. The Hamilton you showed should be a very smooth option, although I have not tried it.

Keep up the good work!


----------



## Little boy blue

Thanks JSL

I had thought about the working sizes as in, the working distance below the scope and hot spot with her in situ etc, and will hang fire with any final adjustments to the rest of the setup, these things can be done when I fully realise the whole set up in situ and then work from there, but keep me on track, much is appreciated for sure.

I am quietly confident about the syringe layout as I have used similar in the lab, but they were motorised and well beyond my wallet. The part to get right is the delay situation between forward and reverse as is often needed to get the semen to travel smoothly, this is seen in the many videos available.

Do you have a good supply of the ready made tubes with the standard syringe connections or their listing name. I could make up these using micro bore and silicone bungs, but the ready made is so much easier and looks better.


----------



## Little boy blue

I was milling around in the bits box and came across these ball units, for those who might like to use a wooden sets these are available too.

https://s19.postimg.org/5v630akpf/IMG_0126.jpg


----------



## JSL

Little boy blue said:


> Do you have a good supply of the ready made tubes with the standard syringe connections or their listing name. I could make up these using micro bore and silicone bungs, but the ready made is so much easier and looks better.


I have the pieces made for the syringe used with my instrument, but you can fashion something similar out of a 0.25cc or a 0.50cc insulin syringe which are pretty common. A 1cc will work too, but it is a bit large to get very good control. If you have a mircometer to use, an all glass syringe and glass plunger would work pretty slick and be very accurate for you. I prefer to make the plungers using a threaded rod and an o-ring for better accuracy. Even the little bit of lay in the rubber and plastic on a standard disposable syringe has a good bit of play in it. It can work, but to me the lag in response is frustrating.


----------



## Little boy blue

I understand what you say about the lag in response, even my Snapon digital micrometers have a tiny bit of lag.

How about the larger micrometers as Pete suggested to me, the syringe could be made to fit in the tail end side and then mount the whole unit into a block.


----------



## JSL

Little boy blue said:


> How about the larger micrometers as Pete suggested to me, the syringe could be made to fit in the tail end side and then mount the whole unit into a block.


Yep, I call them old fashioned, but I suppose they are not... I have one around here somewhere, but you can buy the metal micormeters. They give you a very smooth thread and movement. Or, just find a nice piece of fine threaded rod that will fit in your syringe. It does not have to be fancy. SS is great, but brass or nylon works too, especially the nylon for a smooth movement. There are lots of ways to go about it, just depends on what materials you have handy.


----------



## Little boy blue

JSL said:


> Yep, I call them old fashioned, but I suppose they are not... I have one around here somewhere, but you can buy the metal micormeters. They give you a very smooth thread and movement. Or, just find a nice piece of fine threaded rod that will fit in your syringe. It does not have to be fancy. SS is great, but brass or nylon works too, especially the nylon for a smooth movement. There are lots of ways to go about it, just depends on what materials you have handy.



Your right, just looked up those Hamilton microlitre glass syringes, cringe, so it going to have to be a diabetic type throw away and the metal allthread for myself. I have brass and nylon, PTFE and some tiny o-rings and plenty of micrometer taps and dies, including small B A's in house.

What do you think of this JSL cheap enough

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/0-5...id=5920b556-c60e-46b6-8df5-2c267f587c72&tpp=1

http://www.dhgate.com/product/0-5ul...-250ul/390191396.html#s1-20-7b;srp|0235675844


----------



## Little boy blue

First hot pass for the spindle drop gauge.

As one can see I have fitted two substantial live posts to take the heat from the load, these are 10.00mm dia silver steel and have a 1.2mm hole drilled into the coil end to a depth of 3/4". This way you can do fast coil changes if needed, when you insert the tails of the coils bend them slightly so that they are a tight fit and will contact properly.

The coil wire is 1.00mm dia.

I have yet to fill the void with fire cement around the electric posts, just had to try her out first.

https://s19.postimg.org/yh47dspjn/IMG_0127.jpg

Here is the first tip from the 4.00mm tube, which measures .80mm but it dropped it and broke an inch or so off of the end which originally measured .30mm or less but I could not find all the bits.

https://s19.postimg.org/x76dyqvrn/IMG_0133.jpg

To hold the tube up I found this old Victorian Bulldog clip which works nicely.

https://s19.postimg.org/rka119t8z/IMG_0134.jpg

https://s19.postimg.org/u99f51o43/IMG_0128.jpg

The rear end has a screw down set up for the mains wires as shown.

https://s19.postimg.org/dmruvyv6b/IMG_0130.jpg

The variac was pushing 12 volts here, so a heavy duty battery charger like the video earlier should suffice.

https://s19.postimg.org/pd5sdcnyr/IMG_0132.jpg

The inner distance between the coil and glass tube on this first run was a little to large, the optimum gap should be only a couple of millimetres max or less, here I had four millimetres and it took a while before the weight dropped down. This was a four millimetre dia tube, 2.00mm should take only a few seconds.

A little bit more practice and coil winds and it will work a treat.

More in the new year, happy festivities to all and may your god or gods be with you.

Johno

Check this place out State Side

http://www.produstrial.com/Glass-s/32782.htm


----------



## JSL

Little boy blue said:


> What do you think of this JSL cheap enough
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/0-5...id=5920b556-c60e-46b6-8df5-2c267f587c72&tpp=1
> 
> http://www.dhgate.com/product/0-5ul...-250ul/390191396.html#s1-20-7b;srp|0235675844


I do not have any experience with these syringes. They are for Gas Chromatography. If you try them, go with something in the 200 microliter size.


----------



## JSL

The puller is looking nice. I think you will be happier if you find some smaller diameter glass to pull. Try some 50 microliter capillaries.


----------



## Knisely

tracking this thread...

thank you JSL, Little Boy Blue, and the enthusiasm you show for this project's fabrication. The sourcing links may well not be current in a few years time...can that shortcoming be anticipated with a screen capture of these links?

I hope to be emulating Johno and getting an II kit set up that's based on the shared information here


----------



## Little boy blue

Knisely said:


> tracking this thread...
> 
> thank you JSL, Little Boy Blue, and the enthusiasm you show for this project's fabrication. The sourcing links may well not be current in a few years time...can that shortcoming be anticipated with a screen capture of these links?
> 
> I hope to be emulating Johno and getting an II kit set up that's based on the shared information here


Thank you for your kind words Knisely.

The avenues which empower the whole today via technology may, as you say, not be as they are today, in the future, but the mind has an ability of storing knowledge, beyond the computer and the book or the spoken word, it is how we got to where we are today.

My grandfather would say when the time was right, don't tell me, show me, this is how we as a personality move forward, beyond the patents office or the monopolist that many have become through the controlling of the knowledge.

But it's all good if we work together and listen to those who want to help those who want to help themselves, many minds a solution makes.


----------



## Little boy blue

JSL said:


> The puller is looking nice. I think you will be happier if you find some smaller diameter glass to pull. Try some 50 microliter capillaries.


Now I have endeavoured to pull 4.00mm tube, your advice rings true about smaller tube dia, but I had to have a go to see if the larger size could be done, it can but at much greater time and cost and difficulty, a seasoned glass blower might say it's easy and knock one out in a minute, but I need things to be quick and efficient under my scope of things and repeatable.

I think I may have come up with a home made version of the narrow dia syringe made using a heavy walled glass tube, about .25 and four inches long with an all in one mech for the plunger using a tiny O ring seal which are all available as standard.


----------



## JSL

Knisely, you are welcome. I wish more people would have a go at making their own equipment. Instruments can be quite simple and still work just fine, but I think people shy away from simple these days...

Danny, no worries I completely understand! It is more fun to figure it out for yourself. Many do not realize just how small the tools and instruments have to be. I have modified equipment to inseminate fire ants. The first time, I sat down with the researcher to try the the equipment, I was amazed at how difficult it was to inseminate in miniature!


----------



## JSL

I think this is first "flexible instrument" I made. The manipulator was taken from my childhood microscope.


----------



## Little boy blue

JSL said:


> I think this is first "flexible instrument" I made. The manipulator was taken from my childhood microscope.


That's lovely Joe, love the deep mahogany colour together with the brass, for those who never knew what it is, might say it's really old, of the days of discovery, if you know what I mean.

Now, if a good supply of the type of manipulator like the one from your early microscope shown here, making your own system could be so much easier, I have found the single axis blocks like the ones used on your system, but a cylindrical version would be nice too.

And that gives me another idea, off to the shop to have a rummage.


----------



## Little boy blue

Now, if only these were fifty Dollars each.

http://www.produstrial.com/Glass-s/32782.htm

I could draw these kinds of things up in Solidworks for 3D printing.

https://backyardbrains.com/products/micromanipulator


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## JSL

Little boy blue said:


> That's lovely Joe, love the deep mahogany colour together with the brass, for those who never knew what it is, might say it's really old, of the days of discovery, if you know what I mean.


Thanks, I made that one when I was in high school, so according to my son, it is ancient! It is cherry wood. I liked the finish on it and it has a nice fine grain.


----------



## Little boy blue

https://s19.postimg.org/osqranuqb/IMG_0173.jpg

The main body of the manipulator seen here is a section of 1/2" K & S precision brass tube, this is fitted inside a section of 1/2" tube A with a thicker wall thickness, the thicker wall is needed to take a decent thread for the adjustment screws in white/4.00mm threaded bar.

The white adjuster knobs came from an old fax machine I dismantled.

In this instance I adjusted a small scrap of brass tube I had to fit, these sizes Can be adjusted in size to accommodate ones needs.
The small post was silver soldered to the side of the thicker walled tube A, is 1/4" dia and fits the clamps from my surface gauge, these types of clamps are readily available with most magnetic base support arms in the engineering arena.

The main body of the manipulator consists of 

1 x K & S tube 1/2" dia 2-1/4" long.

1 x K & S tube 17/32" dia 2-1/4" long.

1 x 1/2" ID tube by 1-1/4" long, the 1/2" tube can be press fit into the thicker walled tube in a vice, make sure you press it in from the correct end, and protect the fine ends with a shim of wood or similar because the K & S is only 1/64 wall thickness, now file out a groove with a 1/4" round file to take post.

1 x 1/4" post 1 -1/4" long, shape end to match curve of tube before silver soldering in place.

https://s19.postimg.org/vm0ayf0b7/IMG_0203.jpg


https://s19.postimg.org/n2cbmx2kz/IMG_0174.jpg


https://s19.postimg.org/ngdnmimoj/IMG_0175.jpg


https://s19.postimg.org/r19j5qr83/IMG_0176.jpg


https://s19.postimg.org/czxjk6no3/IMG_0180.jpg


https://s19.postimg.org/8a7lvkwnn/IMG_0177.jpg

In the picture above one will notice that the manipulator main post is itself inserted into another brass tube, this is to provide a really snug fit for the steel post and also give a bearing surface, instead of turning against the timber in the base, in this case its birch plywood.


https://s19.postimg.org/910c1cz0z/IMG_0178.jpg


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## JSL

Danny, I hope you are quite proud of your instrument and craftsmanship. It is a nice piece!

One thing to consider is the positioning of the post for the sting hook. I can understand your placement, but it may make some of the movements a bit awkward.

Merry Christmas everyone!


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## Little boy blue

JSL said:


> Danny, I hope you are quite proud of your instrument and craftsmanship. It is a nice piece!
> 
> One thing to consider is the positioning of the post for the sting hook. I can understand your placement, but it may make some of the movements a bit awkward.
> 
> Merry Christmas everyone!


Thanks Joe

I do like it but it needs a couple more tweaks to get it somewhere near for use, I have been practicing on a model basis and realised your correct in saying that the sting hook arm needs to be more in line with the sting itself, so I will reposition that next to the manipulator post, to almost where it was originally, hopefully with a new device for holding the sting.

With the ball end posts being so narrow I have found that you could have several of them next to each other and still be able to place the hands around the post comfortably, so that the index finger and thumb remain in their natural orientation whilst grasping with the finger tips, it's all down to biological ergonomics, if you know what I mean, if the device is going to look well made, it also has to work optimally and efficiently.

One slight change from yesterday is the latex rubber locators that support the inner tubes, I found in the farming cupboard these lambing castration rubbers, this is rather ironic, here we are trying to improve the breeding of bees, and such items as these prevent the opposite in the weather to be.

The position of the orange rubber upon the brass tubes is the best place to position them, these rubbers have the exact amount of give for the task in hand and are easy to fit, you simply place them on the narrow tube and roll them into position down the wider tube by pushing on the narrow tube.

Make sure everything is plumb central before you slide everything together.

But make sure the lower ring does not obstruct the X-Y adjusters, the orange ring sits just above them for the best regulation of the tip of the needle or spindle/pipette.

These adjusters are capable of very fine tuning, half a turn moves the needle half a millimetre, as one release or unwinds the memory in the rubber ring brings things back to zero, I was quite pleased at the result.

For reference, the smaller dia tube at the very centre of the manipulator has an internal diameter of 4.80mm and-will accommodate a 4.50mm glass tube nicely.

The central glass tube can be held firmly in place by two rubber o-rings.


https://s19.postimg.org/6osc3rmfn/IMG_0181.jpg

https://s19.postimg.org/eisxp5u8j/IMG_0199.jpg

https://s19.postimg.org/527pw9zrn/IMG_0182.jpg

https://www.ted.com/talks/anand_varma_a_thrilling_look_at_the_first_21_days_of_a_bee_s_life

And a happy new year to come.


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## Little boy blue

I was looking online and came across quite a few new II units I had never seen before, it seems there are many new units on the theme, here are a few pictures I found.






























Please could someone tell me what is being done using what seems to be a queen maybe glued to a stick.


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## Little boy blue

After speaking to Pete about the Co2 setup, I founds this useful link for those wanting a viable setup.

http://www.instrumentalinsemination.com/ii-equipment1/co2-system

Also this site for a pro looking glass bubbler, these also do a full range of glass tube of all types, a very friendly person to person service.

http://www.scientificglass.co.uk/co...asks,_Erlenmeyer,_Borosilicate_Glass.html#p56

For the hooks and other tools I'm going for silver wire which is not that expensive, but it is easy to work with and drill, as a seasoned silversmith for ten years now I know how to work harden it by manipulation only, silver also has great anti bacterial properties too, here is my supplier, who will sell by the gram.

http://www.cooksongold.com/Wire/Sterling-Silver-Round-Wire-0.80mm-prcode-HSA-080

Here is what I will use as a steriliser as the old school did things, this is exactly what I had as a student in the military path labs eons ago, cheap and hot off the shelf.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KITCHEN-C...638906?hash=item2ef9b140fa:g:AHMAAOSwRQlXej2N

We called it the same in those days.

When I get sorted and all the help, advice and savings I will be able to afford a decent scope and a crash course or two, can anyone recommend anyone in the North of England, or elsewhere in the U.K.


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## johno

Still waiting on rod end bearings to arrive before starting construction, however I have my son busy printing me a micro manipulator
Johno


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## JSL

johno said:


> Still waiting on rod end bearings to arrive before starting construction, however I have my son busy printing me a micro manipulator
> Johno


Very cool!


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## JSL

Little boy blue said:


>


Do you know where this pic came from? It looks like a really clean Dadant model fashioned after the Mackensen Instrument. I just am not sure if it is an old one or if someone is making them again. I have an original one in the closet.


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## Little boy blue

I found it in Google Pictures in with all the other pictures Joe, there was a link but I never noted it down.

It's a fine piece.

naldc.nal.usda.gov/download/CAT87209055/PDF

I do believe this instrument is in my lineup.


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## Little boy blue

johno said:


> Still waiting on rod end bearings to arrive before starting construction, however I have my son busy printing me a micro manipulator
> Johno
> View attachment 29781


This is the way to go Johno, I am a 3D tech and when I get my new lap top I will draw a few things up and post the files for anyone who wants to go this route, as Joe says, cool.


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## johno

The manipulator parts are ready to be shipped to me from my son in Texas, pity he is not closer to Virginia.


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## johno

Little boy blue, do you have any idea's on how to build the queen holder. Perhaps this is something that a 3D printer could do. what about terminology, what would you call the arms holding the sting hook and the one that has just a sort of hook on it.
Still waiting for stuff to arrive.
Johno


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## Stephenpbird

Complete open-source II equipment from Turkey.

http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...-dollar)-bee-insemination-equipment&p=1501488


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## johno

Thanks Stephenbird, I will try to get my son printing ASAP.
Johno


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## Little boy blue

johno said:


> Little boy blue, do you have any idea's on how to build the queen holder. Perhaps this is something that a 3D printer could do. what about terminology, what would you call the arms holding the sting hook and the one that has just a sort of hook on it.
> Still waiting for stuff to arrive.
> Johno


The arms, let's call them manipulator arms, that use tube to slide inside tuse and held with the O rings as shown earlier, these work really well.

The 3D model looks really well designed can't wait to see her in situ.

The Queen holder tube would be good done on the 3D printer and you will be able to get the reduction at the tip correct, but in a few pictures I have seen what looks like they are using straight tube. 

Here is a few things I have been doing over the holidays. 

I have slightly altered the vertical positioning by adding anew additional micrometer thread to the manipulator, 33TPI, I did the same on my second unit too, with a new Base and more simple brass queen post.

Also this new syringe, made with heavy walled glass tube, 2.5 mm bore including a built in 33TPI thread or piston rod. The rod is drilled at the end to take a plain O ring and small screw.









If there is anyone interested in the Mark 2 version with the black hexagon base, I'm in the market for a good scope new or second hand.

Edit.

My new queen post mount consists of two sections, the main post itself is a round body with a 3/8" spigot that fits directly into the Base, the head is drilled horizontally to take the queen post itself which is held firm by the alan bolt, on the end of the cross tube is a ball to take the gas tube, this is drilled to take the Co2 across through to the queen post.



The second cheaper ball ends I just bought were not as firm as the first ones I received, however,

I have found a easy way to adjust the firmness of the rod ends, given to me buy an old boy, you simply tap them gently on the top section that retains the ball untitled the desired drag is acquired, works every time.

After a visit to a local glass blower artist he showed me how to get the one piece larger diameter pippets; after an hour or so I got the hang of it and can also do it free hand.

Total cost of materials for this project came to just below a hundred pounds and ten full days work in house.


----------



## Little boy blue

Really cool stuff, when I get my new computer shortly I will share a new design done in Solidworks as well.

I tried a few local printing houses here but they are more than ten dollars to be printed, but they are getting cheaper.


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## johno

Your stuff really looks good Blue.
Johno


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## JSL

Little boy blue said:


>


I sure like the looks of this one! Well done.


----------



## Juhani Lunden




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## johno

Thanks for sharing your information Juhani, It seems getting bees to become resistant and to remain resistant is a mammoth task.
Johno


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## Juhani Lunden

johno said:


> ..is a mammoth task.


 Less bees, less work


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## teplov

Hello. 3D model my new equipment.


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## AstroBee

teplov said:


> Hello. 3D model my new equipment.


Wow! Looks very functional. I suspect that it will work nicely. Congrats!


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## teplov

Thank you. Old machine worked well, too. He was not handsome enough. I have them inseminated over 1,500 queens. Sorry for my English.


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## JSL

teplov said:


> Thank you. Old machine worked well, too. He was not handsome enough. I have them inseminated over 1,500 queens. Sorry for my English.


Teplov, very nice work with the instruments! 1500 queens is a lot of time on that machine. 

Thanks to everyone that has shared instruments. It has been a joy to see all of the craftsmanship and ingenuity. Please keep them coming!


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## JSL

This is another hand made instrument and the first that decreased the size and used a shorter post to support the arm.


----------



## yakand

Hi all dears
I tried and worked to home design and making homemade and very cheep II system since last year to now and i reached to many aims. but i see and this hot post today and i'm very happy to this.

my system is not regular system as you seen that and some parts make different to regulars. but it acts which is other systems act.

my camera is far from me but when i may take photo from system upload to you. that is very cheep.

Thanks lot dears


----------



## Little boy blue

johno said:


> Your stuff really looks good Blue.
> Johno


Thanks Johno, I'm working on mark 3 at the moment, she will be a complete 3D print model for the main unit, slightly different to the conventional twin post setup and based around a central queen post that can be worked by either right or left handed people and from forward or behind the scope.

The thread is really bringing global minds together now, which is great to see, thanks.


----------



## Little boy blue

JSL said:


> This is another hand made instrument and the first that decreased the size and used a shorter post to support the arm.


Hi Joe

Have you ever used the geared electrical manipulators before?


----------



## johno

Hi Blue,
3D printing opens up a whole new method of building components fortunately my son is heavily into that
This is his website https://3dprint.direct/blog/ He has now got me working on Fusion 360. If I can master fusion 360 I will get a printer.
Johno


----------



## Little boy blue

johno said:


> Hi Blue,
> 3D printing opens up a whole new method of building components fortunately my son is heavily into that
> This is his website https://3dprint.direct/blog/ He has now got me working on Fusion 360. If I can master fusion 360 I will get a printer.
> Johno


I have been writing professionally in Solidworks 3D since 2001 but hovered around the 3D printing idea due to the lack of decent resolution until recently, which is now pretty good and getting better by the day.
If you do get a grip of your version of the drawing package I would definitely recommend one of theses units, I have two of the older models which are fine which can be picked up for as little as 40 bucks today.

https://www.amazon.com/3Dconnexion-SpacePilot-Pro-Mouse-3DX-700036/dp/B00283VWK4

These pilots really do save a lot of clicking and time and create a calmer thinking pattern whilst working.

But I also like to do things the old way in raw metals conjoined with technology.

I agree, the 3D paradigm is going to take over much of how we perceive making things and it is the way things are headed.


----------



## JSL

Little boy blue said:


> Hi Joe
> 
> Have you ever used the geared electrical manipulators before?


No, I am too old fashioned. We used them in some other lab work, but for II, I like to have greater dexterity and tend to simply things as much as possible. It is also faster for me.


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## Little boy blue

JSL said:


> No, I am too old fashioned. We used them in some other lab work, but for II, I like to have greater dexterity and tend to simply things as much as possible. It is also faster for me.


I understand what you mean about the dexterity model, sometimes the human hand to eye is superior to CNC and cannot be equalled for certain jobs.

I have both metal and woodworking lathes but prefer to use the wood lathe and graver tools to turn brass and it's faster when doing curves as balls, the old boys who taught me long gone were the original CNC'ers. 

Do you use the current model you have pictured on your site most of the time?.


----------



## teplov

Hi Joe
When I decided to make equipment for artificial insemination, I thought that your equipment is too simple, now I know, complex machines will not help in this matter. Dial sperm, no such machine.


----------



## JSL

Little boy blue said:


> I understand what you mean about the dexterity model, sometimes the human hand to eye is superior to CNC and cannot be equalled for certain jobs.
> 
> I have both metal and woodworking lathes but prefer to use the wood lathe and graver tools to turn brass and it's faster when doing curves as balls, the old boys who taught me long gone were the original CNC'ers.
> 
> Do you use the current model you have pictured on your site most of the time?.


To each their own... I don't feel old, but I do feel old school. I can still eyeball and feel a lot of things when making parts.

Yes, I like that simple instrument.


----------



## JSL

teplov said:


> Hi Joe
> When I decided to make equipment for artificial insemination, I thought that your equipment is too simple, now I know, complex machines will not help in this matter. Dial sperm, no such machine.


I understand completely! I think many people share the same perception that a more complex instrument will make it easier and faster. Some seem intimidated by my simple instrument, but after reading the work by Kuhnert and Laidlaw on the flexible technique, I was hooked on the idea. I learned on a traditional Machensen Instrument and later used a Schley, but once I started using simplified instruments there was no comparison. I have often thought of making a more traditional instrument for the market, but I wouldn't use it.


----------



## Little boy blue

screen shots

screenshot windows

windows print screen

free picture hosting

My latest manipulator Mk 3 

I have managed to sneak the same heavy walled tube that the other syringe is made from, inside the central tubes by raising the diameter to the next size of mating tubes in K & S, this time the spindle down feed is done manually and very controllable using finger tips controls, the overall depth can be set before which is ideal for beginners like myself, all that is needed is the adaptor for the 2.5 -1.5 reducer for the 1.5 OD spindles I'm getting soon.

The central tubes are held in place as before using two latex lambing rubbers which simply roll into position.

The glass body is secured as the manipulator arms using a rubber O ring in a filed groove in the brass housing.

She took three hours to knock together from the box of scraps I have, the main nut at the bottom was from a Rolls Royce Merlin engine exhaust nut from my army engineering days. No soldering this time all tap and die work, total cost ten quid.


----------



## kilocharlie

Your doing excellent work, Blue, I'm thrilled. I just saw the smokers - they're beautiful! Thanks for the motivation.

Dr. Latshaw - Thank you for jumping into this thread. What a privilege, an honor, and a thrill, let alone just the right encouragement and advise from the right kind of guy with the right attitude / point of view.


----------



## Little boy blue

kilocharlie said:


> Your doing excellent work, Blue, I'm thrilled. I just saw the smokers - they're beautiful! Thanks for the motivation.
> 
> Dr. Latshaw - Thank you for jumping into this thread. What a privilege, an honor, and a thrill, let alone just the right encouragement and advise from the right kind of guy with the right attitude / point of view.


Hi KC 

Thanks.

Joe has certainly been sanguine to help those who want to help themselves, this is what the world needs more of then things can really move forward for those with the wherewithal. 

I have been busy this week during the calmer weather and the old workshop's not so cold.

Pictured is the third and last version of my II, now the brass bits box is becoming devoid of suitable pieces of tube and scraps that I have kept over the years. This version has an integral syringe built inside the main head of the body, it comes out between .3 to half a ML, Not quite sure how to measure it exactly.

The manipulator arms are done using a cam system and simple wires which have quite good feed or pull parameters and can be adjusted for drag by tightening the torx bolts that go through the main posts themselves

free upload pictures

print screen

The manipulator posts slots that retains the cams were cut using a standard hacksaw, the cams themselves were made from .90 mm brass sheet which fits the slot just right after running some emery between to clean up the burrs. The wires are .80mm silver which is far easier to work with and naturally hypoallergenic.

upload pic

I managed to drill the sting hook exactly as Joe suggested, using a fine sewing machine needle, this fitted nicely into my small hand drill. To make it slightly faster at drilling I sharpenned the needle point on a fine oil stone so that the point ended up with a three sided point, this acted like a reamer, needing only one touch up to come through.

free photo hosting

The main shank of this needle is 0.5mm diameter, the very apex or point .008, so this puts the main hole at between .15 and .20, overall drilling time was around ten minutes.
And one thing I found was, as the drill/needle was beginning to show signs of coming through the other side, it is best to stop drilling and use another new needle to pierce through the final slither of metal to go, this way you get a truly accurate channel which is also tapered like that of the sting itself.

And another manipulator syringe body topped with a hand turned Sterling silver acorn, made today.

First and second photos shows the internal tubing and the latex rubber castration orange rings, these guide and cushion the whole, tube within tube setup.

You can use any suitable nut for this job or buy hex bar and drill it out to take the brass body tube on the lower half of the body.

free image hosting

windows 7 screenshot

free upload pictures

Please feel free to copy everything I have done in this thread, if we work together the place can be a better for everyone.


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## johno

Looks good blue, all you need is a queen in there to try it out, whoops what about a microscope!
Johno


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## Knisely

I'm impressed, Blue.


----------



## Little boy blue

johno said:


> Looks good blue, all you need is a queen in there to try it out, whoops what about a microscope!
> Johno


Quite right johno, a Queen for a day, then the final tuning can be quickly altered, I'm quietly confident it will be pretty close to what is needed, I will let folks know if anything needed altering.

I have just ordered some 1.5 and 2.0mm tubing and going to make another heated drop coil to suit.

On the scope, our small group is still looking for one, maybe a swap for an II.


----------



## Little boy blue

Knisely said:


> I'm impressed, Blue.


Thanks Knisley

Now i will design my 3D printer version, playing with the real things has given me a few ideas of how to begin, and Joe's simple set up is the way I will go in this instance, sort of like, less is more, with a twist.


----------



## johno

Blue what do you call the 1.5 or 2.0mm tubing as I will try to locate some on this side of the pond. One other question, what is the internal diameter of the queen holding tube.
Thanks 
Johno


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## Little boy blue

johno said:


> Blue what do you call the 1.5 or 2.0mm tubing as I will try to locate some on this side of the pond. One other question, what is the internal diameter of the queen holding tube.
> Thanks
> Johno


I have opted to try these tubes for starters, they seem to fit the bill and are quite cheap for a 100 tubes.

http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-5mm-x-100...%3Ab8b5a8721590a2a235eb211dffbb9dac%7Ciid%3A2

Or these

http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Capillary-T...3D111992724247&_trksid=p2056116.c100408.m2460

There is some info on the Queen post here

www.naldc.nal.usda.gov/download/CAT87209055/PDF

Maybe Joe might know if this size is OK. .


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## JSL

KC and LBB, thank you for the kind words and thanks to everyone that has contributed and shared all of their handy work! I have enjoyed this thread!

Johno, the inside diameter of the queen holder is 0.25". You can buy cast or extruded acrylic in this size.

LBB, I generally use 50 microliter capillaries for pulling the insemination tips and 100 microliter capillaries for storing or shipping semen. I am not certain off the top of my head, but I think the 50's are about 0.75mm ID...


----------



## JSL

Little boy blue said:


> upload pic


Beautiful workmanship! Now just do away with the hooks and you will be all set. I think that should work just fine for you.

I am trying to envision the cam locks in motion and think you may still need the typical downward slant on your sting hook.


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## Little boy blue

JSL said:


> KC and LBB, thank you for the kind words and thanks to everyone that has contributed and shared all of their handy work! I have enjoyed this thread!
> 
> Johno, the inside diameter of the queen holder is 0.25". You can buy cast or extruded acrylic in this size.
> 
> LBB, I generally use 50 microliter capillaries for pulling the insemination tips and 100 microliter capillaries for storing or shipping semen. I am not certain off the top of my head, but I think the 50's are about 0.75mm ID...


Thanks Joe, I have just measured my queen holders made from old pen bodies and surprisingly they are .25 of an inch.


----------



## Little boy blue

JSL said:


> Beautiful workmanship! Now just do away with the hooks and you will be all set. I think that should work just fine for you.
> 
> I am trying to envision the cam locks in motion and think you may still need the typical downward slant on your sting hook.


I have left a little scope for movement here Joe, by using a series of holes which one can just see around the very edges of the main circle, so the angle of attack can be changed from slightly above to slightly below the line of drawing motion.

As the cams are depressed they move in and out very slowly, the more you depress the lever the further they can travel, the changes are very subtle.

Showing the different angles depending which way one pulls or pushes on the levers.

image post

upload gambar

I have left the wires longer than needed for adjusting later, and one can bend the wires slightly too in order of getting them exactly where they need to be.

I'm going to draw the 3D model along the lines of your model but slightly different, I like the idea of less as is seen in how my models have evolved I think.

Great thread and people, thanks.


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## Little boy blue

And a fully manual wild card.

Joe I don't know how to thank you enough for encouraging the less is more model. After you mentioned the Laidlaw outlook, I downloaded what I could find and read it, here is that inspiration in the flesh, and I can say less really does have potential I think, anyone with the soft touch and good coordination will be able to handle this fully floating system without much problem.

It's all designed around the manipulator arms that I have used on the other more complicated prototypes with the tube in tube setup, using the O rings as before. The O rings give a very positive feel in the vertcal movement and remain firm after the spindle/needle is released, everything really stays put once you have positioned things.

The ball end joint I adjusted for firmness by tapping it slightly on the housing so that you need a few ounces of pressure to shift it but not too much.

I am quietly surprised at how easy things are in the hand when one needs to feel what is going on below and practice always make perfect as they say.

The whole unit and queen post can be moved in any direction possible, X Y and Z and height of main post.

upload images free

gifs upload

screen shot pc

The ball end post and all other nip points have a brass lining to prevent marring of the shafts and also act as bearing surfaces when repositioning things. 

The tube within tube idea has also given me an idea of doing the same with the spindles which can be adapted to do the same, all I need is them here to get everything finished off.


----------



## JSL

Danny,

I wished you lived next door. Below is a pic of an instrument that is similar, but not as elegant as yours. It is a very basic unit or the prototype of one I offered for a short while. I inseminated hundreds of queens on this one summer just to see if I liked it. I did, but it is all manual, so not for all.


----------



## Little boy blue

I actually like this one a lot Joe, I personally prefer using brass and find it much better to work with than wood or plastic and it can easily be turned on a wood lathe. Tomorrow I will show those that might be interested the old tools that I and many others like the horological society still use today, you only need two different hand tools to do everything on a cheap wood lathe. My lathe I made myself for less than a tank full of gas today.

I'm going to slightly change my queen post stand tomorrow to keep things even more simple and easier to make without needing an engineers workshop. This is how we are working here Joe, you have already done the groundwork and most of what I'm attempting now, and as Plato said in his book; The Republic, nothing is new under the Sun, only resurfaces, changes slightly and is re- perfected from time to time.

In many ways we are next door neighbours electronically that is.


----------



## johno

Thanks Joe and Blue for all the help you have provided, As to the little inseminators that Joe has pictured I am not sure how they are used. How do you open the queens rear end for the insemination? Perhaps joe can explain how the device is used. It seems if it is all done by hand you would need 3 hands.
Johno


----------



## Little boy blue

Joe please could you tell me how tough/strong is the Queens stinger, have you ever seen anyone break one at all?


----------



## AstroBee

Little boy blue said:


> Joe please could you tell me how tough/strong is the Queens stinger, have you ever seen anyone break one at all?



I'm sure Joe will give a more experienced perspective, but based upon my experience, the stingers are pretty tough. The surrounding tissue is more likely to fail than the stinger itself. When I was learning, I did manage to rip out a stinger, but I'm a bit of a klutz.


----------



## Little boy blue

AstroBee said:


> I'm sure Joe will give a more experienced perspective, but based upon my experience, the stingers are pretty tough. The surrounding tissue is more likely to fail that the stinger itself. When I was learning, I did manage to rip out a stinger, but I'm a bit of a klutz.


I have read this very fact along the way and how the range of the tendons once reached can tear easily.

On the sting, I guess it's pretty tough for it to be nipped with mechanical grabbers that are often used on II gear. I suppose a queen wasp has a similar Lance or weapon, in fact there are a few over wintering in my workshop, mmm, only kidding, but if a spider manages to knock one out she's mine.

Another idea and prototype I would like to share is the adaptation for a sting hook, it breaks tradition I suppose but if it works it may ease the trouble of drilling all those tiny holes.

She consists of the following. 

A number 1 leather harness needle, or any sized needle of your choice, this is secured into the rear section or plunger by drilling a slightly smaller hole than the shank itself, and due to the taper of the needle it is wedged into the hole when tapped in gently.

A spring from a biro pen, these can vary in strength from make to make, the one I have here is quite soft in nature.

A small length of 15/64 brass K &S tube which a 3/16 solid bar of brass can pass through smoothly, this tube will also slide inside a 1/4" tube which slides inside a ball end of the same I/D, all K & S tubing from Chicago USA, the best modelling tube since sliced bread was invented.

The 15/64 tube is cut using a pipe cutter on one end only, this creates a rolled over edge that prevents the nose section from passing right through. Leave the other end plain and open to insert the components. 

And a hand turned and drilled nose section to retain and guide the needle when depressed forward to expose the eye of the needle itself.

The size of the needle itself will govern the overall finesse of the nose section, this is polished afterwards to remove any sharp edges left behind from the drilling etc.

The washer at the rear of the handle is drilled out to 5.5mm and will press fit over nicely over the tube without the need to glue or solder it in place.

My hypothesis is, that after the sting is inserted into the eye of the needle and the pressure is released on the plunger the hole or eye will close to infinity enabling the sting to be secured anywhere along its length. 

I have practiced holding a variety of things in the eye from very thin copper wire to various small fibres and it definitely holds them firm.

images upload
upload images free

Your thoughts folks, possible pitfalls etc much appreciated.

Edit: 

Sunday and a new simple queen post which takes the sitting position lower to accommodate the hand positioning for hand feeding the spindle into place. Now the hand can rest firmly on the Base which acts as an anchoring platform for better control.

image hosting over 2mb

All scopes eye view.

post img

I'm really looking forward to trying this out on a live host, once I have had plenty of practice on some paper target discs that fit onto the top of the queen holder, the idea is to pierce the discs where the cross is without making it any larger.

The graver tool.

This is a standard tool of the metal finisher, it's made from a standard woodturning beading tool, all you need to do is grind the square section into a diamond at 45 degrees and that it for turning brass like butter.

image hosting

A paper disc secured to the post, after only an hours practice I can easily hit the spot within ten seconds each time, the floating arm has just the right dampening in all directions including the double O ring setup as the arms i made earlier, Joe you are absolutely spot on when you say a minimum approach can work.

upload image online


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## JSL

Coming along nicely Danny! I tend to think of the sting as having great tensile strength. It can be stretched pretty well along it's axis, but breaks more easily if bent or twisted. Hopefully the pics come through below, but for the simplified instrument, the ventral hook is mounted on the queen holder and pre-positioned. It simply holds and stabilizes. The forceps are held in the left hand and used to manipulate the sting. Danny as you wrote, very little is new, but rather rediscovered. The simplified technique goes back to the Lloyd Watson, the researcher who developed II...


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## johno

Thanks for the pics and information Joe, now I see that the ventral hook is the third hand. As for the cap tubes all I can find so far are 1mm ID x 1.5mm OD by about 100mm long, would they be OK for making the insemination tips. The 1/4' ID acrylic is also readily available
Johno


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## Juhani Lunden

Little boy blue said:


> Joe I don't know how to thank you enough for encouraging the less is more model.


I remember Kari Pirhonen telling me that he was very much interested in making a device like the Joe Latshaw model with sting kept in place with foreceps, but because his hands were shaking way too much he decided to make a different kind of machine.









The syringe is from a farmacy store the cheapest available, there is a screwy teflon part in the end 









The syringe is held in place with this teflon piece with two screws









Syringe and its base unit are moved up and down by sliding with hand, the direction is adjusted all directions with left hand









All angels are adjustable









Queen holder has a diamater of 6,3 mm (1/4 of an inch), small holes for CO2 on the bottom, queen is not backed up there, like in some machines I have seen, but she is put there head first, she is taken out by wings, tips remain outside


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## Little boy blue

Juhani Lunden said:


> I remember Kari Pirhonen telling me that he was very much interested in making a device like the Joe Latshaw model with sting kept in place with foreceps, but because his hands were shaking way too much he decided to make a different kind of machine.
> 
> View attachment 30297
> 
> 
> The syringe is from a farmacy store the cheapest available, there is a screwy teflon part in the end
> 
> View attachment 30298
> 
> 
> The syringe is held in place with this teflon piece with two screws
> 
> View attachment 30299
> 
> 
> Syringe and its base unit are moved up and down by sliding with hand, the direction is adjusted all directions with left hand
> 
> View attachment 30300
> 
> 
> All angels are adjustable
> 
> View attachment 30301
> 
> 
> Queen holder has a diamater of 6,3 mm (1/4 of an inch), small holes for CO2 on the bottom, queen is not backed up there, like in some machines I have seen, but she is put there head first, she is taken out by wings, tips remain outside


Nice workmanship JL

Does the plunge motion occur when you use what looks like a lever at the back of the head piece?

I like the small brass blocks and the ball joints, these are really versatile arn't they and cheap.

I cannot access you link below for some reason, is there another route to the information.


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## Little boy blue

JSL said:


> Coming along nicely Danny! I tend to think of the sting as having great tensile strength. It can be stretched pretty well along it's axis, but breaks more easily if bent or twisted. Hopefully the pics come through below, but for the simplified instrument, the ventral hook is mounted on the queen holder and pre-positioned. It simply holds and stabilizes. The forceps are held in the left hand and used to manipulate the sting. Danny as you wrote, very little is new, but rather rediscovered. The simplified technique goes back to the Lloyd Watson, the researcher who developed II...


Thanks for the photos Joe, now I have a better perspective of just how small things really are.

I will try both methods of sting control including my needle idea, and will be careful not to flex the sting across its axis.

I have been wracking my brain of how to come up with a similar device for the ventral hook without pinching your idea, so far I have not found an easier way to do it, so I might have to do the same if that's OK with you.

Please could you recommend a good supplier of the 50 microliter tubing, for the needles. Here it's hit and miss to what sizes are available which differ wildly between 1.3 and 1.5, or do you think these are good enough for the job, most are melting point tubes.


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## JSL

johno said:


> Thanks for the pics and information Joe, now I see that the ventral hook is the third hand. As for the cap tubes all I can find so far are 1mm ID x 1.5mm OD by about 100mm long, would they be OK for making the insemination tips. The 1/4' ID acrylic is also readily available
> Johno


Those should work just fine.


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## JSL

Danny,

I don't have a good source for the 50 microliter capillary tubes. To be honest I bought a bunch years ago and have worked off of that stock pile. I see them on Ebay every once and a while. Just keep an eye out for them. You can buy them from any of the big supply companies, but you will pay for them. Below is a link for some that are on the US Ebay right now.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Idaho-Techn...989357?hash=item2358949aed:g:vGYAAOSwWnFV8F-7


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## JSL

Juhani Lunden said:


> I remember Kari Pirhonen telling me that he was very much interested in making a device like the Joe Latshaw model with sting kept in place with foreceps, but because his hands were shaking way too much he decided to make a different kind of machine.


I have had many people tell me this, but my hands are not all that steady either. Regardless of what type of instrument you use there is a lot of fine work. The best approach for me is to be able to rest my hand on the base and keep my fingers close to the instrument at all times. It is as if I am holding the instrument in my hands as I work.


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## Juhani Lunden

Little boy blue said:


> Does the plunge motion occur when you use what looks like a lever at the back of the head piece?


I don´t understand your question, what do you mean with head piece, head of the syringe or what?

Now I realize that I did not put (before taking pictures) the teflon piece in the syringe in place, over the top end of the syringe. )


Capillar tube with semen is moved by pushing with hand the syringe and base unit all together and sliding it nice and easy. It is quite easy to learn.


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## Juhani Lunden

JSL said:


> I have had many people tell me this, but my hands are not all that steady either.


Karis hands may be worse


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## Little boy blue

JSL said:


> I have had many people tell me this, but my hands are not all that steady either. Regardless of what type of instrument you use there is a lot of fine work. The best approach for me is to be able to rest my hand on the base and keep my fingers close to the instrument at all times. It is as if I am holding the instrument in my hands as I work.


This is what I discovered yesterday Joe, and the very reason I made the queen post much shorter, so that my entire trailing edge of the hand was down firm on the Base and table and the finger tips as close to the needle as possible.


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## Little boy blue

Juhani Lunden said:


> I don´t understand your question, what do you mean with head piece, head of the syringe or what?
> 
> Now I realize that I did not put (before taking pictures) the teflon piece in the syringe in place, over the top end of the syringe. )
> 
> 
> Capillar tube with semen is moved by pushing with hand the syringe and base unit all together and sliding it nice and easy. It is quite easy to learn.


Now I see it, nice hand control and steady as you go, teflon holder slides along square shaft, cool.


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## Juhani Lunden

Little boy blue said:


> Now I see it, nice hand control and steady as you go, teflon holder slides along square shaft, cool.


In this structure the unwanted sideways movements of the semen tube are "slowed down" by the very long arm (20cm), used by left hand. The sliding movement goes (down or up) a straight line, unless corrected with the left hand rod. 

In your structure do you plan to just leave the semen tube inside the queen (balljoint holding it, maybe 10 cm further up) and then start to unload semen with your right hand?


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## Little boy blue

Juhani Lunden said:


> In this structure the unwanted sideways movements of the semen tube are "slowed down" by the very long arm (20cm), used by left hand. The sliding movement goes (down or up) a straight line, unless corrected with the left hand rod.
> 
> In your structure do you plan to just leave the semen tube inside the queen (balljoint holding it, maybe 10 cm further up) and then start to unload semen with your right hand?


On the all manual ball joint only system I will use a separate syringe for adding the semen, once semen tube is inserted I let go of all unit, all is then locked in position and cannot move, and then pump so no vibrations are being made with using this type of pump, Harbo style, my design.


image post

On the first and second units are like the one below that I made without the internal syringe, I will also use the separate Harbo type syringe to add semen.

upload foto

Below is internal syringe type, this system has all manual manipulator also.

img host


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## Juhani Lunden

Sorry, I was looking the pictures in post 163, experimental model?


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## Little boy blue

Juhani Lunden said:


> Sorry, I was looking the pictures in post 163, experimental model?


I still have some tiny adjustments to make though, the internal syringe model has some tiny amount of play between the glass tube and the brass, this must not be allowed to move sideways yes. How much sideways movements do you think is OK, or is it best to have no play at all?


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## Juhani Lunden

I could not give any tecnical advise, I was just little concerned of the machine in pictures of post 163. If it were only the ball joint holding the syringe and semen tube, it had to be fixed somehow in place before crasping the other end of the syringe to move/pump semen. When the tube is ready for insemination, I would accept no play at all.


----------



## JSL

Juhani Lunden said:


> I could not give any tecnical advise, I was just little concerned of the machine in pictures of post 163. If it were only the ball joint holding the syringe and semen tube, it had to be fixed somehow in place before crasping the other end of the syringe to move/pump semen. When the tube is ready for insemination, I would accept no play at all.


This is an excellent point! If you look at the little instrument in post #164, there are nylon thumb screws to tighten up before delivering the semen. These thumb screws can lock the movement or place enough tension on it that you can adjust the syringe without moving the glass tip. A little more maneuvering, but certainly doable. This type of movement and positioning goes back to Mackensen.


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## Little boy blue

Juhani Lunden said:


> I could not give any tecnical advise, I was just little concerned of the machine in pictures of post 163. If it were only the ball joint holding the syringe and semen tube, it had to be fixed somehow in place before crasping the other end of the syringe to move/pump semen. When the tube is ready for insemination, I would accept no play at all.


I have just been working with the syringe and found good way to remove all play between the glass and the inner manipulator tube. I used a small pipe cutter and run it around the tube a few times to create a crimp inwards but was careful not to cut right through.

No play now, solid as a rock, see photo below.

image upload


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## Little boy blue

JSL said:


> This is an excellent point! If you look at the little instrument in post #164, there are nylon thumb screws to tighten up before delivering the semen. These thumb screws can lock the movement or place enough tension on it that you can adjust the syringe without moving the glass tip. A little more maneuvering, but certainly doable. This type of movement and positioning goes back to Mackensen.


Yes I have this covered also, when the very fine tuning of the needle has been done using the two black adjusters, this creates back pressure on the internal guide rubbers so nothing can more during the injection phase/turning the top screw.
I have also made the thread slightly slack by about 2 thousands of an inch so there is very little pressure needed to turn the shaft, only finger tips action is needed to turn the piston on its way.

But I think the Harbo system is the better more sure way to separate the unit from the hands while pumping, because any tracking of the needle in any direction that can be accidently knocked either way, if not locked in some way or another.

But if your careful nothing should occur.


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## JSL

Little boy blue said:


> But I think the Harbo system is the better more sure way to separate the unit from the hands while pumping, because any tracking of the needle in any direction that can be accidently knocked either way, if not locked in some way or another.


This is correct and I considered such an approach, but it meant more pieces and parts...


----------



## Juhani Lunden

Little boy blue said:


> Yes I have this covered also, when the very fine tuning of the needle has been done using the two black adjusters, this creates back pressure on the internal guide rubbers so nothing can more during the injection phase/turning the top screw.


Oh now I see, the final version is in the pictures of the post 152. Looks much sturdier and I understand the idea of tightening the play away with the screws on two sides. They move and tighten it in two directions only? If you want to move onto the other two directions, you have to move the whole system?

Other comment I would like to make is the sting hook hole. In the pictures of the post 152 it looks too big. In my sting hook it is so small it cannot be seen with eye, microscope is needed.


(A friend of my made a no-till-sowing machine of his own. Afterwards he said that it cost him way more than a factory made new one of any model... Making with own hands is irresistible for some of us...)


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## Little boy blue

Juhani Lunden said:


> Oh now I see, the final version is in the pictures of the post 152. Looks much sturdier and I understand the idea of tightening the play away with the screws on two sides. They move and tighten it in two directions only? If you want to move onto the other two directions, you have to move the whole system?
> 
> Other comment I would like to make is the sting hook hole. In the pictures of the post 152 it looks too big. In my sting hook it is so small it cannot be seen with eye, microscope is needed.
> 
> 
> (A friend of my made a no-till-sowing machine of his own. Afterwards he said that it cost him way more than a factory made new one of any model... Making with own hands is irresistible for some of us...)


Thats right, the two adjuster knobs move the needle in the X and Y planes, but they do so against two inner orange latex rubber rings which surround the inner brass tube within tube, which align the whole internal mechanism. Most other makes this is done externally which increase the overall bulk, something I wanted to avoid whilst designing my version of an II.

As the pressure from the screws acts against either plane this slightly compresses the rubber rings and if backed off again the needle/syringe etc which is attached to the tubes will spring back again to where it began. The overall movement using the fine adjusters can cover the internal diameter of the queen post

The initial setup is done by roughly positioning the main post which the manipulator is mounted upon, then the two fine adjusters are used for the final alignment, it's sounds complicated but it's rather easy and fast in practice.

As one knows time and skill equals money and all research is eventually paid in time, motion and product in the future, where each project is ultimately rewarded, like Joe's fine instrument.

The versions I have made cost me in time but the materials were quite cheap, the total cost come to around the same price as a ready made syringe which many systems use today, say 150.00 pounds. I have made four viable units which if bought commercially would cost the earth for me, in fact I would never have been able to do it this way. Today my time is liber free and the most valuable if you understand what I mean.

The sting hook you see is a prototype and the hole is full of polish from the buffer, but I need to do lots more work in this area, hopefully the needle version I made will work out so I don't need to drill any more holes.


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## Little boy blue

JSL said:


> This is correct and I considered such an approach, but it meant more pieces and parts...


Like yourself I think too many parts can become a burden in themselves, my final version which I'm working on today will follow your lines of thought. What I wanted to concentrate upon was the delivery system rather than the final manipulation of the host, your system does both of these.

What i think most of the pioneering minds in this field did, was secure the host and try to prevent things from being disturbed afterwards, but at the same time created even more chances of things being disturbed by unwanted clutter in the form of manipulator arms, I did the same and added a few by copying what had come before. 

The less is more approach is paramount in many ways, but in the most suited parameters where space is a premium.

I my humble opinion much of humanity has lost its instinctive hand to eye coordination, not all but the majority have been steered away from the natural hand to eye attributes that the rest of nature by and large still retains. 

Let's see what the future brings.


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## Juhani Lunden

Little boy blue said:


> As the pressure from the screws acts against either plane this slightly compresses the rubber rings and if backed off again the needle/syringe etc which is attached to the tubes will spring back again to where it began.


Pretty much same way as every cars disc brakes work, great idea! 

Your workmanship looks brilliant! You have some kind of master degree in engineering?


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## Little boy blue

Juhani Lunden said:


> Pretty much same way as every cars disc brakes work, great idea!
> 
> Your workmanship looks brilliant! You have some kind of master degree in engineering?


Thanks JL

Yes I am an engineer today but from a farming background, my parents were farmers who kept bees also.


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## teplov

Juhani Lunden I want to ask you. Will you worked this syringe? Is it convenient? Because I had problems. My experience has shown that the piston does not have to be all rubber.


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## Juhani Lunden

teplov said:


> Juhani Lunden I want to ask you. Will you worked this syringe? Is it convenient? Because I had problems. My experience has shown that the piston does not have to be all rubber.


My device is designed and manufactured by Kari Pirhonen, a beekeeping genious who makes what he wants. The syringe works perfect: less than quarter of a turn is needed to start sperm flow smoothly. I have no practical working experience of other devices, although I did use some others during my beekeeping studies in the University of Helsinki.


----------



## Little boy blue

This is my final version which has the built in glass syringe, as you can see I have added a few more bits, namely, a 33-1 instrument thread mechanism, and a third white screw which nips everything up tight on the triplane IE, pyramid equelatoral, prior to manipulating the main syringe piston.

The micrometer feed can be instantly disabled for fast removal of the needle rather than having to unwind by hand. 

Once the sperm spindle/tube has been positioned exactly where you want it, a tiny nip on the white screw and everything is locked solid and bar a huge knock the entire unit remains really firm.

There are no soldered parts on this version, everything takes apart with only one alen hex key.

The white nip screw also incorporates the lower end of the micro feed mechanism and can float along with the rest of the feed in unit, as it is fine tuned at the final insertion stage.

The angle of the queen post is set a York pitch or 50 Degrees but can be altered by bending the twist plate that it sits upon.

I won't be adding any arms to this model and may yet have to admit defeat and add a well known retaining clip to the queen tube, but not just yet.



Arrived today, 1.5mm X 100 capillaries, many thanks.













This has been a mammoth task and my finger ends are sore as can be but it's been worth every ounce of dint, let me say a huge thanks to Joe and everyone else who has encouraged this project along, I could not have done it without you all.

I'm still not quite there yet, and need to gather a few more items and perfect the sperm needles and drop heated coil mechanism, which I'm working on the rest of this week. I did say to Johno that I would like to get it all done by the end of January but that was wishful thinking, but I'm close.

Thanks for watching so far, be back soon with more silly ideas.

.photo share

Once I have practiced and decided which unit I have made that is worthy to be called an II, I would like to donate it to Beesource, to give to anyone who comes up with another home grown device in the field of beekeeping.


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## Little boy blue

JSL said:


> This is correct and I considered such an approach, but it meant more pieces and parts...


Joe! When I get rolling with my new computer soon, I will draw up a 3D unit to make a suitable glass tube body pump using the minimum of parts. It will be something along the lines of my own version, but will be ready made to assemble.

When it's done I will donate it to you for appraisal, if your cool with that.

If it works it will encourage those on a budget to take up the pass time.


----------



## johno

Great stuff Blue, moving along slowly with my first attempt. I still have to make up the queen holding setup but will have to browse my local hardware shop for some bits and pieces. Still have to make up some tips with cap tube and seeing your tube is that 1.5mm OD or ID.
Johno


----------



## teplov

Juhani Lunden said:


> My device is designed and manufactured by Kari Pirhonen, a beekeeping genious who makes what he wants. The syringe works perfect: less than quarter of a turn is needed to start sperm flow smoothly. I have no practical working experience of other devices, although I did use some others during my beekeeping studies in the University of Helsinki.


Perhaps your syringe and better than the one that I was. Now I apply full glass syringe plunger also glass. It seems to this one. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/s-LOT-1-x-1-ml-Syringe-Vintage-insulin-Russian-USSR-Reusable-HYPODERMIC-GLASS-/191386259940?hash=item2c8f8291e4:g:IgsAAOSwDN1USMv8 There is also a brass piston, also without rubber.


----------



## Little boy blue

johno said:


> Great stuff Blue, moving along slowly with my first attempt. I still have to make up the queen holding setup but will have to browse my local hardware shop for some bits and pieces. Still have to make up some tips with cap tube and seeing your tube is that 1.5mm OD or ID.
> Johno


Thanks Johno

The tubes are 1.5 OD, boy are they tiny and break really easy.

Have you got any pictures of your manipulator assembled?


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## Little boy blue

teplov said:


> Perhaps your syringe and better than the one that I was. Now I apply full glass syringe plunger also glass. It seems to this one.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/s-LOT-1-x-1-ml-Syringe-Vintage-insulin-Russian-USSR-Reusable-HYPODERMIC-GLASS-/191386259940?hash=item2c8f8291e4:g:IgsAAOSwDN1USMv8 There is also a brass piston, also without rubber.


Hi Teplov.

Great find.

That is a really good unit and very cheap. I have used these types before with brass or bronze piston, they work very well if you use petroleum jelly to make the seal tight.

It will work well for the sperm collection as this requires no high pressure to draw the fluid.


----------



## kilocharlie

OK, so a Harbo-type syringe, the simplified Latshaw or Keunhert-type hook, and a micro forceps from Germany or (was it Switzerland or ???)

I'll give that a go. I went through a bag of 150 different kinds of ink pens last week and found a few good queen holders. I passed on a pen holder on a ball joint in a thrift store to aim it. I like better the CO2 tube delivery hole drilled at a 35 degree angle in the stage base plate, then counter-drilled for the thread tap of you choice. A fixed syringe needle holder to aim at the fixed queen holder makes things easier and saves the cost of another ball joint.

If I can get an optic quality prism combined with a 15X eyepiece, or even an arthroscope set above the whole thing, I may not even need a microscope.

Thanks again to all for the kick in the pants. I needed it. Moving the apiary, changing to Modified Square Jumbo Dadant hives & frames, watching the first wet winter in my area since 2010 go by with no bees in the yard has had my ambition level down. Thank you again.


----------



## beepro

I find this area interesting.
Going to try to make one for my Cordovan drones.
The 50 microliter glass tube, is that enough to do one insemination when all full? And is it close to the 10 ml at one time delivery?
Somehow the volume not making sense to me.


----------



## Little boy blue

kilocharlie said:


> OK, so a Harbo-type syringe, the simplified Latshaw or Keunhert-type hook, and a micro forceps from Germany or (was it Switzerland or ???)
> 
> I'll give that a go. I went through a bag of 150 different kinds of ink pens last week and found a few good queen holders. I passed on a pen holder on a ball joint in a thrift store to aim it. I like better the CO2 tube delivery hole drilled at a 35 degree angle in the stage base plate, then counter-drilled for the thread tap of you choice. A fixed syringe needle holder to aim at the fixed queen holder makes things easier and saves the cost of another ball joint.
> 
> If I can get an optic quality prism combined with a 15X eyepiece, or even an arthroscope set above the whole thing, I may not even need a microscope.
> 
> Thanks again to all for the kick in the pants. I needed it. Moving the apiary, changing to Modified Square Jumbo Dadant hives & frames, watching the first wet winter in my area since 2010 go by with no bees in the yard has had my ambition level down. Thank you again.


The no scope model is something that I have often thought about. My dentist has a pair of special spectacles when he works which gives him a mag of 2 to 6.

post img

Or this
http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-power-He...%3Ad064b60a1590a787f7af34b2ffae8518%7Ciid%3A4

Then there are lots of cheap cctv cameras which I have a couple on one inch boards, both are focusable.

A decent zoom sterio here begins at 350 and above into the four figures, that would take me quite a while to recover.

What are folks here using today, does anyone have a spare to barter with?


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## Juhani Lunden

Little boy blue said:


> What are folks here using today, does anyone have a spare to barter with?


I think mine is this:

http://www.villenkello.fi/shop/kauppa4/products.php?&action=show&id=1177&show=all

270€


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## Little boy blue

Juhani Lunden said:


> I think mine is this:
> 
> http://www.villenkello.fi/shop/kauppa4/products.php?&action=show&id=1177&show=all
> 
> 270€


This model was exactly the one I was thinking of getting, Zenith was or maybe still is made in East Germany when it was under Soviet rule and pretty good optics. I still have an old camera somewhere with a Zenith lens on it.

http://www.opticalvision.co.uk/microscopes_and_meters-stereoscopic/stl-80.html

How do you find the 20th mag for insemination?


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## teplov

Juhani Lunden said:


> I think mine is this:
> 
> http://www.villenkello.fi/shop/kauppa4/products.php?&action=show&id=1177&show=all
> 
> 270€


:пальцы вверх: 
This is also a great http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/microscope-stereoscopic-zenith-mbs-10-313573290


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## Stephenpbird

In the UK you can't go wrong with

http://www.brunelmicroscopes.co.uk/nonzoom-stereomicroscopes.html

they have a very good reputation and even supply II equipment and scopes.

http://www.brunelmicroscopes.co.uk/honeybees.html


some II videos too.


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## Little boy blue

First go at spindles and they really do melt fast in the naked flame, I managed to get two viable specimens to the Cushman specs out of three sections. But I think for uniformity I will go down the drop forge route.

What i found was unless you keep everything dead straight the tip ends up lobb sided.

Another thing I noticed was, even with everything locked solid the slightest over handed pressure can be seen in the spindle tip, boy does one have to have a light touch indeed and I have a very steady hand not to move things at all.

Best to go the Harbo route to be absolutely steady I think.






20mb image hosting


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## Juhani Lunden

Little boy blue said:


> How do you find the 20th mag for insemination?


I usually find 10x better, but I remember this scope has them both.


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## Little boy blue

Juhani Lunden said:


> I usually find 10x better, but I remember this scope has them both.


Thanks JL after looking at a few and some recommended by others I think this one is right for the money but I will also try the 10 times head band magnifyer at 20 pounds, this will also replace my old BL unit.


----------



## JSL

Little boy blue said:


>


I don't know the measurements on that tip, but it looks very respectable. Pulling tips is a bit of an art... You can pull a small number by hand and get some nice one's, but a drop puller will be more efficient and consistent if you are pulling any quantity.


----------



## teplov

Оut so well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8_qsPbvnZ0


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## Juhani Lunden

teplov said:


> Оut so well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8_qsPbvnZ0


Problem solved!
Thanks for the link! Is it your YouTube channel?


----------



## Little boy blue

Juhani Lunden said:


> Problem solved!
> Thanks for the link! Is it your YouTube channel?


I made my drop spindle around this style after posting this video last month in this thread, he breifly shows you the calipers which looks like it's set at, EDIT, 0.27 mm OD, as the Cushman specs.

The caliper trimming method really works well for breaking off the very tips of the needle to size in the calipers, but I used the flame again to cut the spindle in half rather than the side cutters.

JSL

The needle is done exactly to the Cushman specs, the length varies when i did it by hand, but the drop method should create uniformity in that area too.

This making things has really got into my blood and I now design and even easier system, coming soon.


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## Juhani Lunden

Little boy blue said:


> I made my drop spindle around this style after posting this video last month in this thread, he breifly shows you the calipers which looks like it's set at .027 OD, as the Cushman specs.


Oups, I haven´t read the whole thread. I have always got needles from Kari, have to ask him to join this thread too. 

What is .027 OD?


----------



## Little boy blue

Juhani Lunden said:


> Oups, I haven´t read the whole thread. I have always got needles from Kari, have to ask him to join this thread too.
> 
> What is .027 OD?


Here's is the link to Davy Cushman specs page on making needles, it says .27 mm OD.

http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/tipshape.html

Davy also mentions if the ID is greater than .17 there is trouble with mucous blocking the opening, this is due to the viscosity difference between the mucous and the seminal fluid. I have read that if you place the tip through the outer mucous layer and draw the semen from below it, this barrier less problems should occur.

I used a wooden body for my first version but will maker a metal one for the next one and isolate it using heat resistant tube that I used on my home made induction heater.


----------



## Juhani Lunden

OK, .027 sounded a bit small


----------



## beekuk

Little boy blue said:


> Davy also mentions if the ID is greater than .17 there is trouble with mucous blocking the opening, this is due to the viscosity difference between the mucous and the seminal fluid. I have read that if you place the tip through the outer mucous layer and draw the semen from below it, this barrier less problems should occur.


 A good idea on where to cut the insemination tip is to use a piece of wire of the correct diameter thread internally into the tip (a gauge wire) then cut where the wire is stopped as this will be the correct ID.

Described by Cushman below.


> A tungsten carbide scraper or planer blade can be used to nick the surface of glass to provide a "notch" that facilitates snapping. The point at which the nick is made can be located using a "gauge wire" O.15 mm diameter, with end face ground at right angles to the axis. This gauge is introduced from the open end. The gauge wire will only enter until it meets it's own diameter inside the taper, thus the nick can be made on the outside of the glass at that point.


http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/makingtips.html

Best to keep the tip away from the mucus layer and just skim the semen from the bed of mucous it sits on, a kind of capillary action is used.


----------



## Juhani Lunden

Little boy blue said:


> I have read that if you place the tip through the outer mucous layer and draw the semen from below it, this barrier less problems should occur.


Like Pete said that is false information. Preferably place the tip sideways to the surface, to avoid tip nose entering into the semen. Just touch is needed. When the sucking on its way, move the tip a bit further away, semen kind of jumps over small gap.


----------



## teplov

Juhani Lunden said:


> Problem solved!
> Thanks for the link! Is it your YouTube channel?


Not my channel. This channel is a friend of mine, whom I taught. Here is my. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgwt1gS0-pokfxELUusFBBg


----------



## Little boy blue

Juhani Lunden said:


> Oups, I haven´t read the whole thread. I have always got needles from Kari, have to ask him to join this thread too.
> 
> What is .027 OD?


Hi JL

My first attempt at needles went quite well.

I chose the birch ply once again which is actually perfect for this job, in fact I will keep this design as it is in wood, which only took me 20 minutes to make and from scrap wood.

The single post makes it easier to adjust for lining things up too.

I discovered after about 8 attempts that I needed a much smaller coil and only 3 turns to get the best results. The coil was made around a 6.00 mm rod, this gives a fairly close gap of about 2.00 mm inside the coil.

I kept the heavy 10.00 mm steel poles for the power supply from the previous machine, these have the same hole size as the wire coil. The ends are simply pushed in tight, no need for nip screws.

The melting time is roughly six seconds depending on how much power I gave it with the variac. 

Some of the needles turned out with a more stubby nose, as Davy Cushman mentions in his parent page on the subject, which he says acts as a seal in the area of the vaginal entrance, this will I think also give a better indication for depth as one can see more of the tip in a smaller area, but practice will soon tell if this theory works out come the time.












image hosting 15mb

All tips OD are .27 mm. 

Another thing I noticed was, when you trim the tips down in the vernier gauge as the video shows the guy doing, the tip ends up with a slight angle where it breaks off in the jaws of the gauge, if you zoom right in on the top picture you can see this.

Does this really matter or is it beneficial?

Thanks.


----------



## Little boy blue

Juhani Lunden said:


> Like Pete said that is false information. Preferably place the tip sideways to the surface, to avoid tip nose entering into the semen. Just touch is needed. When the sucking on its way, move the tip a bit further away, semen kind of jumps over small gap.


Thanks guys I will try this when I begin, thanks for keeping things on track, I will go and try the inner wire gauge now, to see where things ended up.

Edit. 

I just had a thought, if you use the wire gauge on the inside as a marker where to trim the tip off; won't the hole/ID become bigger after the tip is either fire polished etc.


----------



## johno

All this information is a little overwhelming, I guess I will just have to keep plugging along and do one thing at a time. This is as far as I have got right now. The printed manipulator works very well, I am only using 2 of the 3 parts on this one and I would like to increase the diameter of the control knobs maybe to 1" for ease of use. I will try to use the 1ml syringe as a tip holder and have a pump mounted on the base as I move on but have still some way to go. The scope starts at 12 x and will zoom to 60x.



















Johno


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## Stephenpbird

A polish study on the Influence of the diameter of the inseminating needle tip on the results of bee queens' fertilization. Its worth a read.

http://jas.org.pl/pdf/110?filename=jas_50_2_2006_15.pdf


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## Stephenpbird

"Bee queen insemination grinding capillair 0,25mm#" I am sure you have seen this , but just in case...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kZYcz_jUGw


----------



## Little boy blue

johno said:


> All this information is a little overwhelming, I guess I will just have to keep plugging along and do one thing at a time. This is as far as I have got right now. The printed manipulator works very well, I am only using 2 of the 3 parts on this one and I would like to increase the diameter of the control knobs maybe to 1" for ease of use. I will try to use the 1ml syringe as a tip holder and have a pump mounted on the base as I move on but have still some way to go. The scope starts at 12 x and will zoom to 60x.
> View attachment 30356
> View attachment 30357
> View attachment 30358
> 
> Johno


Coming along nicely Johno, I like the layout of the manipulator, are you going to get your son to print out a Harbo syringe to use with the kit?.

That is a top scope, I saw one just like it on eBay, the dial in power is really great.

As my grandfather said, just keep going and you will get there boy, as he used to call me.


----------



## Little boy blue

Stephenpbird said:


> "Bee queen insemination grinding capillair 0,25mm#" I am sure you have seen this , but just in case...
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kZYcz_jUGw


What does he have inside the dish, is it some kind of wet and dry paper submerged in Water?


----------



## JSL

teplov said:


> Not my channel. This channel is a friend of mine, whom I taught. Here is my. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgwt1gS0-pokfxELUusFBBg


Very nice! I like this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5lES2g5ZKI What is the bottom of the polystyrene case made of, wire mesh? Do you start the nucs with a virgin or a cell? I have always been tempted to try this style of nuc for fun.


----------



## JSL

Little boy blue said:


> All tips OD are .27 mm.
> 
> Another thing I noticed was, when you trim the tips down in the vernier gauge as the video shows the guy doing, the tip ends up with a slight angle where it breaks off in the jaws of the gauge, if you zoom right in on the top picture you can see this.
> 
> Does this really matter or is it beneficial?
> 
> Thanks.


Very clever with the clothespin. The finished angle of the tip is more a matter of personal preference in my experience.


----------



## JSL

johno said:


> All this information is a little overwhelming, I guess I will just have to keep plugging along and do one thing at a time. This is as far as I have got right now. The printed manipulator works very well, I am only using 2 of the 3 parts on this one and I would like to increase the diameter of the control knobs maybe to 1" for ease of use. I will try to use the 1ml syringe as a tip holder and have a pump mounted on the base as I move on but have still some way to go. The scope starts at 12 x and will zoom to 60x.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Johno


Very nice Johno! I like to work in the 12-15X range. How does the movement feel on the printed manipulator?


----------



## JSL

Little boy blue said:


> What does he have inside the dish, is it some kind of wet and dry paper submerged in Water?


It is 1200 grit wet sandpaper. I assume the sandpaper is just in a dish of water.


----------



## Juhani Lunden

Stephenpbird said:


> A polish study on the Influence of the diameter of the inseminating needle tip on the results of bee queens' fertilization. Its worth a read.
> 
> http://jas.org.pl/pdf/110?filename=jas_50_2_2006_15.pdf



So it seems that bigger tips take more mucus, and therefore queens may be of lower quality. 

"The semen collection with the needle of the tip diameter of 0.16 mm lasted longer compared to the bigger needle tip (0.19 mm). Often some mucus of jelly consistency was soaked into the smaller needle tip, which had to be removed before collecting the required volume of semen. The use of a small inseminating needle makes it impossible to collect the thick semen yielded by older drones (Jasiñski 1994). Such difficulties were seldom when the needle with a bigger needle tip was used. It may have caused soaking of mucus together with the semen, which was not noticed before the needle was cleaned and disinfected. 

The significantly lowest number of spermatozoa was found in spermatheca of queens that did not clear both oviducts (2.621 mln).
However significantly better spermatheca filling was found in the group of queens, which were inseminated in 2005 and completely cleared their oviducts (3.769 mln).

In our experiment residue of semen was found in 22.8% of queens that were inseminated with a smaller needle tip (0.16 mm), whereas as many as in 40.7% of queens inseminated with a bigger needle tip (0.19 mm). Thus it can be concluded that one of reasons for semen residue in the queens’ oviducts may be unsuitable semen that is thick and comes from older drones and with some mucus content. "


----------



## Little boy blue

JSL said:


> It is 1200 grit wet sandpaper. I assume the sandpaper is just in a dish of water.


Thanks, he is sanding at a slight angle it seems.

Forgive me for being slightly critical but, if the tip is trimmed of at an angle; the overall size of the hole, which will end up oval, could be bigger than the desired size* if you start off with an end that ends up at the finished size when trimmed using the internal wire gauge/indicator. Wouldn't it be fortuitous to start off with a slightly smaller tip, at initial trimming before beginning the sanding and or fire polishing, and work back towards the final size.

If the Polish study is correct, getting the correct size is quite important it seems.


----------



## JSL

Little boy blue said:


> Thanks, he is sanding at a slight angle it seems.
> 
> Forgive me for being slightly critical but, if the tip is trimmed of at an angle; the overall size of the hole, which will end up oval, could be bigger than the desired size* if you start off with an end that ends up at the finished size when trimmed using the internal wire gauge/indicator. Wouldn't it be fortuitous to start off with a slightly smaller tip, at initial trimming before beginning the sanding and or fire polishing, and work back towards the final size.
> 
> If the Polish study is correct, getting the correct size is quite important it seems.


I understand, and technically I agree, but from a practical standpoint, I do not pay that close attention. I prefer the larger tip diameters and the person collecting the semen and inseminating the queens has a large influence on the outcome of the work.


----------



## Little boy blue

I will end the day with a large smile from a shed in Yorkshire.

Finally got the result I was looking for.

I added a guided drop weight to the rig, and altered the cloths pin so that the jaws were slightly rounded and matched together on the drum sander so they matched perfectly. Then heated a 1.00 mm wire and clamped the pins jaws against it square so it now holds the glass tube perfectly in line from top to bottom.

I tried the wire gauge inside the tube and found that every other three or so we're then too big if the break was made an angle greater than 45 degrees. So went for a slightly narrower tip at initial trimming. 

One thing that Pete mentioned was a carbon blade, this was the best tip of this whole topic today, so to cut the the tips I used my ultra sharp laminated Japanese folding pock knife, seen in the photo, absolutely perfect cut, thanks Pete!

The variac I have gives a perfect voltage when set which creates the same heat every time, this one's my freinds and something I will invest in in the future I think.

The consistency is now very good for a heat Robinson set up I think.








gifs upload


----------



## Little boy blue

JSL said:


> I understand, and technically I agree, but from a practical standpoint, I do not pay that close attention. I prefer the larger tip diameters and the person collecting the semen and inseminating the queens has a large influence on the outcome of the work.


I also agree, it's all down to practice at the end of the day, something I'm going to find out about soon enough. Best to cover all of the corners and then* if needs be, adjust and meld the parsimoniousness of the task or tasks in hand thereafter.


----------



## johno

Joe the manipulator works very smoothly with practically no side movement, the drive screws are #6 x 32 so a full revolution of a control knob will move either slide 1/32" as I mentioned I would like to increase the diameter of the control knobs which will give even smoother control. I am considering making one of your simpler models and then I would use the manipulator with three axis of control.
Johno


----------



## Stephenpbird

I have been looking at II for a few years and assembling info as I find it, but I have absolutely no experience with it, so be gentle now.

From what I found the inside diameter of the inseminating needle tips range between 0.13 Mackensen, 0.16-0.20 Harbo and 0.18 Schley. When did the larger size come in and who introduced it? and what prompted the enlargement?


----------



## Little boy blue

Stephenpbird said:


> I have been looking at II for a few years and assembling info as I find it, but I have absolutely no experience with it, so be gentle now.
> 
> From what I found the inside diameter of the inseminating needle tips range between 0.13 Mackensen, 0.16-0.20 Harbo and 0.18 Schley. When did the larger size come in and who introduced it? and what prompted the enlargement?


In the Polish study it mentions that since insemination has become more popular and the demand for the product needing larger amounts of Queens, into the high thousands it says, time is of the essence and maybe why speed needed a larger easier method.

I know one not far from us who does 2500 plus each season.

Another reason could be that to make multiples of needles needing precise accuracy and checking, that time is once again a factor. For the hobby guy like myself and not in business, they would have more time to mess about checking and rechecking using the plethora of different techniques already mentioned in this one thread, I'm sure there are more for sure.


----------



## kilocharlie

Dr. Latshaw -

If one were to separate all the sub-tasks in I.I. so as to assign one specialty each to a different person, how many people would you use on a team? I am building a rotary table with a number of stations in order to speed the process. I know your answer will depend upon the method / apparatus at each station, please handle each separately with any pros and / or cons you foresee. Thank you.


----------



## Juhani Lunden

Stephenpbird said:


> From what I found the inside diameter of the inseminating needle tips range between 0.13 Mackensen, 0.16-0.20 Harbo and 0.18 Schley. When did the larger size come in and who introduced it? and what prompted the enlargement?


Isn´t .27 OD outside diameter?


----------



## Little boy blue

Johno

Here is a tip that might help you and your son design an II that is simple like Joe's, but fit right inside the Base of your scope, where you have removed the light stage, to simply pop right in there very secure.

I will knock up a prototype out of plywood today to show how many scopes could be accommodated with such a device.

When I get going, when my new computer arrives I will design and draw a 3D unit that fulfills this task, also with a built in Harbo system in the base of the unit itself. Designed in such a way as the glass tube becomes the feed in for the final push, not needing a top syringe at all just the glass tube, with a converter down to the size of the sperm needle, using the brass tubes within tube, like we have already used on the arms.

I hope all of that makes sense, to you both.

Edit14.04 today.

Something like this Johno but add the X Y Z adjustment into the design.






gifs upload

Any size of tube can be used.


----------



## Little boy blue

Juhani Lunden said:


> Isn´t .27 OD outside diameter?


Yes, Davy Cushman specs site has these dimensions, .25 - .27 mm, but, yesterday I made fifty needles using Pete' tip of using a sharp blade to score the tips, and still when measured there was not one that came out exactly on size, things are only pot luck if they come out right on tatget, thus this is more of a guide really.

If you use the vernier gauge to snap them off what happens is, when you insert a tapered object into a pair of square jaws you cannot get a consistent break and uniformity thereafter, the two parameters do not match the item being severed.

As time is a factor for the larger units it would be far better to get their tubes made by professionals like the girl in the video I posted earlier, to check every one using the Cushman inner wire gauge would not be profitable, there might be a few who go down this route, but I cannot see even fifty percent of self makers going to this length, nor the pros either.

There are many different parameter in a laboratory type situation that this arena is professed to be, taken into consideration, as the professionals who have worked in climate controlled settings will tell, like temp, longevity, ease or style of the operator that can have unseen effects on the overall success of insemination.


----------



## johno

Thanks for the tip Blue, I had actually envisioned a larger base to enable space for the hand holding the sting tweezer but we will see how it goes. Even though its winter there is still a lot to be done getting ready for spring.
Johno


----------



## JSL

kilocharlie said:


> Dr. Latshaw -
> 
> If one were to separate all the sub-tasks in I.I. so as to assign one specialty each to a different person, how many people would you use on a team? I am building a rotary table with a number of stations in order to speed the process. I know your answer will depend upon the method / apparatus at each station, please handle each separately with any pros and / or cons you foresee. Thank you.



Thanks, but I am not formal, Joe is fine for me.

That's a tough question. I could easily envision 3 stations. One to collect semen, one to inseminate and one to handle the queens (clipping, marking, caging, records...). The biggest con is boredom.  I typically collect semen in the morning and inseminate queens in the afternoon as this helps break up things and gives me a chance to clean up the area before handling queens.


----------



## JSL

Little boy blue said:


>


I like it! The concept reminds me of the Jordan-Pollard instrument. I had the pleasure of seeing and testing their little instrument years ago, maybe 20 now. I wish I had one or at least pictures, so if any body knows this instrument I would love to see some pics again!


----------



## Little boy blue

JSL said:


> I like it! The concept reminds me of the Jordan-Pollard instrument. I had the pleasure of seeing and testing their little instrument years ago, maybe 20 now. I wish I had one or at least pictures, so if any body knows this instrument I would love to see some pics again!


Mention of the kit here.

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/0005772X.1995.11099275?needAccess=true&journalCode=tbee20

Is this it Joe

screen cap


----------



## beekuk

Little boy blue said:


> Arrived today, 1.5mm X 100 capillaries, many thanks.


Danny, which supplier did you finally decide to buy your capillary tubing from?


----------



## Little boy blue

kilocharlie said:


> Dr. Latshaw -
> 
> If one were to separate all the sub-tasks in I.I. so as to assign one specialty each to a different person, how many people would you use on a team? I am building a rotary table with a number of stations in order to speed the process. I know your answer will depend upon the method / apparatus at each station, please handle each separately with any pros and / or cons you foresee. Thank you.


Hi KC

Over the years I have been hired to evaluate such paradigms, in the engineering and other trouble shooting arenas, saving one company 5K per unit costing twice that normally. And many other problem solving issues.

However;

I would set the venture up by first training the operatives so they can ALL do each others jobs, as I have seen whilst working in both the civilian and the military roles, then if any particular body was out of action or sick the whole system doesn't shut down because one is out of action, this can waste lots of profit if fully booked up in season and difficult windows of weather situation.

Another way to ease the boredom as Joe says, would be to have the operatives do a rotary model, an hour or day on one stage and change, this actually speeds up production in this kind of environment.

Hope that helps.


----------



## Little boy blue

beekuk said:


> Danny, which supplier did you finally decide to buy your capillary tubing from?


Ebay and Amazon so far, someone sent me my first batch.

I got quotes from some other UK bodies and one wanted 30 quid a metre, some even more.

A good one here

http://www.capillarytubes.co.uk/acatalog/Borosilicate_Glass_Capillary_Tubes.html

http://www.glass-solutions.com/glass-tubing.html

There are companies like Yorlabs who do the ready made stuff but you have to be a registered company before they will trade. You will be able to get them no problem I would have thought.

I can foresee problems in this area in the future and I would buy as much as I could now.

Hope you recovered OK from that horrible cold.


----------



## JSL

Little boy blue said:


> Is this it Joe
> 
> screen cap


Danny, this is one of my instruments.


----------



## Little boy blue

JSL said:


> Danny, this is one of my instruments.


Now that one is really cool, it looks like it has every adjustment, do you still make these or has the current one superseded it?


----------



## JSL

Little boy blue said:


> Now that one is really cool, it looks like it has every adjustment, do you still make these or has the current one superseded it?


It is an older model that has been replaced by a simplified machine. I really liked it, but machining costs were getting too high...


----------



## Little boy blue

JSL said:


> It is an older model that has been replaced by a simplified machine. I really liked it, but machining costs were getting too high...


Do you think it could be made in the 3D printing world, I would be willing to draw things up for free if your interested..


----------



## Little boy blue

If there are any beeks in the UK who are thinking of making their own equipment in the future, Here is a list of good suppliers to get most of the parts from.

Micro bore laboratory tubing.

http://www.altecweb.com/home.asp?cat=Subcategory4100

Most glass tube and products

http://www.scientificglass.co.uk/

Neoprene stoppers and tubing.

http://www.hilltop-products.co.uk/tapered-cork-stoppers.html

Metal supplies, stainless rods for pistons etc, brass sheet and more.

http://www.metalsmith.co.uk/

K & S brass tubing from eBay. 

Rod end bearings

www.bearingboys.co.uk

Capilliary tubes for sperm needles here.

https://www.labunlimited.co.uk/p/pg_dl_3397/Melting-point-tubes

https://www.fishersci.co.uk/shop/products/c/12807685


Most have no minimum order.

Edit..

What i have discovered when making my Harbo style syringe is this, as a freind who understand fluid mechanics better than I do, said.

If you keep the ratio of the internal components from the tip of the needle working back towards the power source, in this case the pump itself, if you step up the size very slightly thereafter one gets a much finer sensitivity overall.

My needle has an OD of 1.5mm/ID of .93 mm, the laboratory clear tube has an OD of 3.00mm/ ID of 1.00 mm and the pump has an OD of 7.00mm/ID of 3.8mm.

This gives an enlarging ratio of just over 2.2 to 1.






free image host

Tools needed are a 3.00 mm tap and die, 2.00 mm tap for the seal screw.

The total cost of components comes to ten dollars, not including the base.


----------



## Little boy blue

The O rings can be found here, this first in the line with a .74 I'D 1.02 section, the more you buy the cheaper they get.

http://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/Seals-O-Ring-Seals-NITRILE-O-Rings/c19_4501_4705/index.html

The good thing about using this method is, you can adjust the seal pressure by simply tightening the central screw to get the desired pressure you require.

The sizes of the glass tube are 7.00 mm OD 4.00 mm I'D bought from the link posted previously.


----------



## JSL

Little boy blue said:


> Do you think it could be made in the 3D printing world, I would be willing to draw things up for free if your interested..


Danny, I am not sure as I do not have much experience with close tolerance 3-D printing. I am a bit skeptical, but thank you for the very generous offer!


----------



## JSL

Little boy blue said:


>


Is there tension on the threads for the screw? I tried this design initially for the reason you suggest, but my challenge was maintaining the correct pressure on the O-ring. The screw would move over time.


----------



## Little boy blue

JSL said:


> Danny, I am not sure as I do not have much experience with close tolerance 3-D printing. I am a bit skeptical, but thank you for the very generous offer!


There are are now entry level machines which are very capable of top quality items that can be hand reamed and tapped thereafter, to get the high tolerances needed for II gear and some semi pro levels that cost in the same region of the price one unit costs ready made.

This revolution is just about to explode.


----------



## Little boy blue

JSL said:


> Is there tension on the threads for the screw? I tried this design initially for the reason you suggest, but my challenge was maintaining the correct pressure on the O-ring. The screw would move over time.


Yes there is tension on the screw provided by an expansion of the nitrile ring itself.

If you see how I have designed my flat pump on the brass stand you may recall that it does not revolve the piston, it is the turn disc or wheel that turns.

To solve the rotational forces that could loosen the screw where the piston turns, you place a tiny spot of semi permanent thread lock mine is blue, and it will not move until you want it to.

Here is one of my collections of minute screws which I collected from old electronics, cameras etc over the years.

image upload


----------



## JSL

Little boy blue said:


> If you see how I have designed my flat pump on the brass stand you may recall that it does not revolve the piston, it is the turn disc or wheel that turns.
> 
> To solve the rotational forces that could loosen the screw where the piston turns, you place a tiny spot of semi permanent thread lock mine is blue, and it will not move until you want it to.


Got it! That makes sense.


----------



## Juhani Lunden

johno said:


> Hi Blue,
> 3D printing opens up a whole new method of building components fortunately my son is heavily into that
> This is his website https://3dprint.direct/blog/ He has now got me working on Fusion 360. If I can master fusion 360 I will get a printer.
> Johno


www.freecadweb.org

YouTube video to start learning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bosJdm2iEKw

(I haven´t used them)


----------



## johno

Hi Juhani, This is what fusion 360 is all about. Just check out these tutorials. I have been working on some other tutorials that are quite difficult to follow, you gave me the idea to check youtube and this is what I found! much simpler to understand.
Check this out. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5bc9c3S12g 
Johno


----------



## Juhani Lunden

johno said:


> Hi Juhani, This is what fusion 360 is all about. Just check out these tutorials. I have been working on some other tutorials that are quite difficult to follow, you gave me the idea to check youtube and this is what I found! much simpler to understand.
> Check this out.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5bc9c3S12g
> Johno


Thanks, I´ll do that
or if I get lazy I ask my daughter to use one of the 3D scanners in the Tampere University of Technology...


----------



## johno

Right on the scanner Juhani, My son has one in Texas but I am in Virginia and I wonder if they can scan whats in your mind.
Johno


----------



## Little boy blue

I have found another good suppliers of off the shelf capilliary tube here and they always have a good stock.

1.5mm OD X 100.00 mm Boracilicate open both ends.

https://www.dixonscience.com/produc...lary Tube, Open Both Ends, Borosilicate Glass

If anyone would like a pucker bubble filter for their Co2 kit, here is a great device for the bee lab, 125ml bottle and head.

http://www.scientificglass.co.uk/contents/en-uk/d6_Drechsel_Bottles___Heads.html

A cheaper way of tube to needle sealing, instead of buying expensive tube.

http://www.hilltop-products.co.uk/neoprene-rubber-sleeves-standard-colours.html


----------



## beepro

Do you need a small CO2 counter too? I believe it is one bubble per minute from reading.


----------



## Juhani Lunden

beepro said:


> Do you need a small CO2 counter too? I believe it is one bubble per minute from reading.


No, just a glas jar and some water on the bottom, then CO2 tube under the water surface, so the bubbling can be seen. You learn very quickly how much is needed to keep the queen quiet.
In my setup about couple bubbles per second.


----------



## Little boy blue

My latest plywood II field model.

Made from good quality multi layer hard birch plywood which makes great models like this.

She is not quite finished and needs the X Y instrument threads as the others.

This time I have gone for solid feeds without the internal latex rings and all brass guides and inserts.

The vertical adjustment is done using parts from my very first attempt, using levers for the movement which is tensioned and held in line using a large rubber o ring.

The syringe is part and parcel of the unit which can actually fit inside your coat pocket once you remove the needle and tube, and why I have named it the field kit II, she has everything the lab version has and more.








adult photo sharing

More pictures soon.


----------



## JSL

Little boy blue said:


> My latest plywood II field model.
> 
> Made from good quality multi layer hard birch plywood which makes great models like this.
> 
> She is not quite finished and needs the X Y instrument threads as the others.
> 
> This time I have gone for solid feeds without the internal latex rings and all brass guides and inserts.
> 
> The vertical adjustment is done using parts from my very first attempt, using levers for the movement which is tensioned and held in line using a large rubber o ring.
> 
> The syringe is part and parcel of the unit which can actually fit inside your coat pocket once you remove the needle and tube, and why I have named it the field kit II, she has everything the lab version has and more.
> 
> More pictures soon.


Danny,

I like the looks of it and appreciate your creativity but, your movements are getting more complicated... The more surfaces and movements you have to account for in the movement the harder it becomes to get them all to work properly.


----------



## Little boy blue

JSL said:


> Danny,
> 
> I like the looks of it and appreciate your creativity but, your movements are getting more complicated... The more surfaces and movements you have to account for in the movement the harder it becomes to get them all to work properly.


I'm playing at the moment but will keep to the X Y Z only.

This one has just the three with each being able to return by turning the opposite direction.

There will be no hook posts and a simple queen post, it actually looks more complicated than it is, just everything mechanism wise is built on the outside instead of hidden under geared tracks etc.

Using ready made tube is the key, no machining costs just slide them together.

In the place of a geared track and pinion, I have used a rubber band, one could also use a spring, and a single section of 3/4" tube as the main bearing surface or component.

All will be revealed soon.


----------



## Little boy blue

Little boy blue said:


> I'm playing at the moment but will keep to the X Y Z only.
> 
> This one has just the three with each being able to return by turning the opposite direction.
> 
> There will be no hook posts and a simple queen post, it actually looks more complicated than it is, just everything mechanism wise is built on the outside instead of hidden under geared tracks etc.
> 
> Using ready made tube is the key, no machining costs just slide them together.
> 
> In the place of a geared track and pinion, I have used a rubber band, one could also use a spring, and a single section of 3/4" tube as the main bearing surface or component.
> 
> All will be revealed soon.


Nearing completion, and a change of base to a hex covered with a thin sheet of German silver I found lurking and forgotten about since 2007 says on the package.

I fitted the second tracking stage today which uses a 33-1 thread feed and spring giving ultra fine adjustment left and right.

Too big to fit inside the coat pocket now.

The birch plywood takes a very good finish once sanded to which I will add a waterproof lacquer coat later.

It's turned out a lot better than I expected, I will base the 3D model on this eventually.













image hosting over 10mb

Thanks for looking

More tomorrow.


----------



## JSL

Danny, 

I like the looks of it! Please put me down for one when they come on the market!


----------



## Little boy blue

JSL said:


> Danny,
> 
> I like the looks of it! Please put me down for one when they come on the market!


Joe, 

I will send it to you for all the help you have given, I have your mailing address from you Web site.

It's purely a prototype and needs a few slight mods and a queen post fitting.

Let me know if that's OK .


----------



## JSL

Little boy blue said:


> Joe,
> 
> I will send it to you for all the help you have given, I have your mailing address from you Web site.
> 
> It's purely a prototype and needs a few slight mods and a queen post fitting.
> 
> Let me know if that's OK .


Danny, you very much for the generous offer, but please hang on to your prototype, it will have sentimental value! I would be interested in a printed version when available.


----------



## Little boy blue

JSL said:


> Danny, you very much for the generous offer, but please hang on to your prototype, it will have sentimental value! I would be interested in a printed version when available.


Thats no problem Joe, I will be drawing up the 3D version in about a fortnight's time when my new computer and screen comes, as I'm without a computer at the moment.

Please could you tell me what the best angles that the manipulator and queen post work best at, and I will build these measurements into the model.


----------



## Little boy blue

beepro said:


> Do you need a small CO2 counter too? I believe it is one bubble per minute from reading.


The Co2 counters available are made from a 1.0ml syringe and two plastic balls, one is half the size of the ID the other is a drop in fit.

For the valve you can use one of these, 

http://m.ebay.com/itm/Connectors-Aq...3A011dfb2015a0a786ca6f20d3ff9f3d83%7Ciid%3A12
http://m.ebay.com/itm/Aquarium-DIY-...%3A0121547315a0a2a398683ef7ffab845f%7Ciid%3A8


----------



## beepro

Can I also find the luer syringe metal cap and the extension casing on ebay too?
Where to find the luer cap and the syringe extension casing? Already got the capillary.


----------



## JSL

IMO, the CO2 bubblers and counters are unnecessary. I run a direct line from the thumb valve on the CO2 tank to the instrument. You may check the initial flow rate in water, but after that it is based on the queens.


----------



## Juhani Lunden

Juhani Lunden said:


> No, just a glas jar and some water on the bottom, then CO2 tube under the water surface, so the bubbling can be seen. You learn very quickly how much is needed to keep the queen quiet.
> In my setup about couple bubbles per second.











Baby food jar, for kids 3 months-6 months of age


----------



## Little boy blue

beepro said:


> Do you need a small CO2 counter too? I believe it is one bubble per second from reading.


Pete mentioned to me a guideline of around a bubble per second.


----------



## teplov

Little boy blue said:


> Pete mentioned to me a guideline of around a bubble per second.


It depends on what diameter hose, too early to think about it, You will work, see.


----------



## Little boy blue

teplov said:


> It depends on what diameter hose, too early to think about it, You will work, see.


Yes thank you, I thought about the volume/diameter of the tubes and how much gas will be needed, a flow meter would remove all guessing to begin with, and then use skills and observation afterwards.

On some videos I have watched the Queens breathing getting smaller and her going calm.

Is it possible to kill the queen with too much gas??


----------



## JSL

Little boy blue said:


> Yes thank you, I thought about the volume/diameter of the tubes and how much gas will be needed, a flow meter would remove all guessing to begin with, and then use skills and observation afterwards.
> 
> On some videos I have watched the Queens breathing getting smaller and her going calm.
> 
> Is it possible to kill the queen with too much gas??


Don't overthink this... The flow rate isn't very critical, enough to immobilize the queens quickly. I run about 3-4 bubbles per second on a 3/16" line.


----------



## Little boy blue

JSL said:


> Don't overthink this... The flow rate isn't very critical, enough to immobilize the queens quickly. I run about 3-4 bubbles per second on a 3/16" line.


Most queens will probably differ from one to another, at that rate of bubbles, how long does it take on average before you can comfortably begin working on her majesty.


----------



## JSL

Little boy blue said:


> Most queens will probably differ from one to another, at that rate of bubbles, how long does it take on average before you can comfortably begin working on her majesty.


I want the flow rate high enough that I can begin just as soon as I place the queen in the tube and pick up forceps. It is with 15-20 seconds that she is pretty well motionless. Sometimes just a little less.


----------



## Little boy blue

JSL said:


> I want the flow rate high enough that I can begin just as soon as I place the queen in the tube and pick up forceps. It is with 15-20 seconds that she is pretty well motionless. Sometimes just a little less.


Thanks Joe.


----------



## beepro

Metal needle adapter?

On you tube vids, I saw the metal needle adapter. Somehow this adapter screw into the
syringe and then the capillary is place into it. Is such a metal adapter needed?


----------



## Little boy blue

beepro said:


> Metal needle adapter?
> 
> On you tube vids, I saw the metal needle adapter. Somehow this adapter screw into the
> syringe and then the capillary is place into it. Is such a metal adapter needed?


Not sure which adapter you mean.

Do you mean the end of the metal body of the syringe itself.

Which maker of syringe?


----------



## beepro

Yes, the threaded adapter to screw into the syringe after the capillary is inserted.
Somehow this part is the most confusing to me since I've never see where to buy one on the net.
As to which type of syringe, I saw many on ebay. I believe the one I'm looking at is 10 ul or 1 ml close to it.
Not sure about the adapter though. Do you use the adapter too and what is its purpose? To hold in the capillary?


----------



## Little boy blue

beepro said:


> Yes, the threaded adapter to screw into the syringe after the capillary is inserted.
> Somehow this part is the most confusing to me since I've never see where to buy one on the net.
> As to which type of syringe, I saw many on ebay. I believe the one I'm looking at is 10 ul or 1 ml close to it.
> Not sure about the adapter though. Do you use the adapter too and what is its purpose? To hold in the capillary?


The idea came from this similar dental type syringe it could be adapted using a plethora of different components but unless you have a lathe and tools it's going to be difficult.

http://m.ebay.com/itm/Stainless-Ste...%3A12f84af215a0a60624ffc787ffac4227%7Ciid%3A1

Remember the syringe inside the purpose made unit has a plastic syringe, I would rather use a glass tube that can be sterilised and at a couple of dollar for a 1.5 meter length glass is cheap if your making your own.

You can also use a small piece of rubber tube as a reducer like many are doing to fit the sperm needle, this will enable different size OD needles to be used. If you go down the adapter route you either need the same supply of needles or different adapters to suit.

The only other option is a ready made unit at 150-180 bucks a pop and then buy the throw away syringes which becomes expensive over time.

If your buying a system I would go for this unit which makes up the Harbo pump and make your own base, it's 0.2ul.

https://www.coleparmer.com/i/gilmont-gs-1100-micrometer-syringe-0-2-ml-1-ea/0784000

Dan.


----------



## teplov

beepro said:


> Yes, the threaded adapter to screw into the syringe after the capillary is inserted.
> Somehow this part is the most confusing to me since I've never see where to buy one on the net.
> As to which type of syringe, I saw many on ebay. I believe the one I'm looking at is 10 ul or 1 ml close to it.
> Not sure about the adapter though. Do you use the adapter too and what is its purpose? To hold in the capillary?


Could it be, see with 14.40 minutes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t20rN3TLB4A&t=967s and maybe so https://www.wpiinc.com/products/top-products/make-selection-manual-microsyringe-pump/ difference 500$/ I chose the first option.


----------



## Juhani Lunden

Little boy blue said:


> , I would rather use a glass tube that can be sterilised.


I don´t think that is a good argument to make it more expensive and fragile. Semen is only in capillars, seldom ever need to sterilise the syringe, plus my plastic syringe can easily be sterilised with steam.









https://www.google.fi/url?sa=i&rct=...AWWnyxOnJtY0BNYeCON7cvBQ&ust=1486482057200174


----------



## Little boy blue

Quite right guys go for whatever version one finds suitable for ones needs and affordability, this is why I gave multiple options for all walks of life and those with deep pockets, I am also here to share ideas and learn not argue, no one has deeper pockets than I.

Please see my last version of an II, before spring arrives and the real fun begins, I think I now have enough data to at least to give it a go.

This one will fit in a jacket pocket and yet has all of the attributes of most designs out there today.

I will however share my 3D print version with everyone when it's drawn out.

This version has full micro control using Inched Levers in the X & Y planes, and precise slide hand feed for the injection phase using the main glass tube for the inner guide. This inner tube is also large enough to convert it into a larger reservoir for bulk collection. This one I will try using my home made table top syringe.

Once guided into the correct position the unit is automatically locked in position and cannot be easily disturbed, there is absolutely no play in any of the parameters.

She has only one silver soldered joint and that is on the lower Inched lever to the main support post, the rest is tap and die work throughout, using brass toggle nuts and bolts all hand turned.

















image uploader

Thanks for looking

Dan.


----------



## Juhani Lunden

Little boy blue said:


> precise slide hand feed for the injection phase using the main glass tube for the inner guide


Looks very fine. I would only add some kind of easy way to move the syringe (and capillar) fast, to make more room for hands to work when collecting semen.

When starting to collect semen one needs to move the capillar tip a long way, up and towards the operator. Just IMO.


If I understand the structure right, you have to turn the knobs to make it move and this goes relatively slowly. Of cource if you are making huge numbers this is no big deal, but I usually collect semen just for one queen at a time, so a lot of knob turning...


----------



## Little boy blue

Juhani Lunden said:


> Looks very fine. I would only add some kind of easy way to move the syringe (and capillar) fast, to make more room for hands to work when collecting semen.
> 
> When starting to collect semen one needs to move the capillar tip a long way, up and towards the operator. Just IMO.
> 
> 
> If I understand the structure right, you have to turn the knobs to make it move and this goes relatively slowly. Of cource if you are making huge numbers this is no big deal, but I usually collect semen just for one queen at a time, so a lot of knob turning...


If you see 3rd picture from top previous post of syringe in hand only, this shows the syringe tube removed I one second, needle not shown fitted.

This is placed in another simple stand for semen collection, and then slid back into main unit when full, no adjusting needed until ready for the final injection procedure.

This means the unit is not disturbed from its best working position, and if more fine adjustment is needed the queen post can be moved which is only finger tight.

In the 3D model I will add this to the queen post which can also move in X and Y positions easily.

The tube within tube is the key to standardising the whole system, never seen before I think, but could be wrong.


----------



## Juhani Lunden

Little boy blue said:


> This is placed in *another simple stand *for semen collection, and then slid back into main unit when full, no adjusting needed until ready for the final injection procedure.
> 
> This means the unit is not disturbed from its best working position, and if more fine adjustment is needed the queen post can be moved which is only finger tight.


:thumbsup: problem solved


----------



## Little boy blue

Juhani Lunden said:


> :thumbsup: problem solved


Everything is still untested though, time will tell if I made things correctly.

:waiting:


----------



## Little boy blue

Taking the very first manipulator that I made and on the theme of an ecliptic ring set at 23.4 degrees around the queen post and another hex baseplate.

I am currently making a series of quick attachable tools that simply slip over the ring in any position around the 360 degrees circle to manipulate or not, or rest your hand upon using tweezers manually.

The idea is to design a sting hook that hangs over the edge of the ring secure to pull the sting by a weight perhaps, on a counter balance just enough but not too much to retract the sting while your working, with no protruding arms that can be knocked accidently, but it is just that, an idea at this stage.

Any ideas are welcomed at this stage.

The main post can be instantainiously turned 90 degrees to allow semen collection as JL rightly pointed out yesterday, and I will be using my home made horizontal type syringe or pump as in three of the other designs are orientated.








screen capture windows

Thanks for looking.


----------



## JSL

Looking nice. Your glass pipette may be a challenge. The long gradual taper will be an issue to prevent the semen from mixing with the saline. I can't tell the volume if you have enough room to collect semen for one queen before it open up too much. Your design would work just fine with a Harbo style syringe.


----------



## Little boy blue

JSL said:


> Looking nice. Your glass pipette may be a challenge. The long gradual taper will be an issue to prevent the semen from mixing with the saline. I can't tell the volume if you have enough room to collect semen for one queen before it open up too much. Your design would work just fine with a Harbo style syringe.


I understand what you mean Joe, as soon as I got the 1.5's and made the drop machine the idea of the larger draw went out the window, once I saw how easy the smaller ones worked out, as you said they would.

The main glass tubes that goes through the manipulator central tube is now only 2.30mm ID, which the pipette can pass through nicely acting as added security to the more delicate collecting needle inside it.

I can remember working in the path labs 30 plus years ago, we used to use special coloured glass inserts inside the longer glass rods that acted as buffer zones to prevent certain fluids from crossing over mixing together, can't remember exactly what we called them now, but they looked just like the markers in weather thermometers, you know the small rods that ride the mercury and remain in place afterwards.

I think these could be adapted in some way when collecting larger amounts of liquid, they don't actually impede the performance of the vacuum whilst drawing or pumping they slide along from where they are placed initially.

What diameter would you say is the max for larger sperm ID tubes?

One thing I have discovered whilst making the gear is, the glass rods slide much much easier inside the brass at the centre, than brass to brass, which I have converted a couple into recently.






image hosting free

Many thanks again for the knowledge.


----------



## Little boy blue

Here is the finished needle setup.

The 1.5 OD sperm needle fits straight inside the micro lab tubing and then is slid nice and snug inside the outer protector glass tube, this holds things really central and secure.

To prevent the whole setup from moving downwards it is held with an O ring at the top and can be inserted and removed together with the sperm needle in a couple of seconds. And can be brought down to the pre manipulated depth prior to the final manipulation and semen injection by sliding the outer tube through the O ring until the desired depth is reached.

The weight of the whole needle setup is adequate to prevent it from moving upwards during working and if too much insertion pressure is applied it can lift without creating harm to the queen especially when first starting out as a beginner.

But the needle can also be secured using a small PTFE push on adaptor if required.

The ring rest I have added to the latest stand and base works really well for the tweezer method and is very comfortable indeed.



The ring would remove many of the stresses involved when concentrating on keeping things still.



Total cost for the needle setup is around three dollars each in raw materials.


image hosting site no sign up

Thanks Joe.


----------



## Little boy blue

Little boy blue said:


> Here is the finished needle setup.
> 
> The 1.5 OD sperm needle fits straight inside the micro lab tubing and then is slid nice and snug inside the outer protector glass tube, this holds things really central and secure.
> 
> To prevent the whole setup from moving downwards it is held with an O ring at the top and can be inserted and removed together with the sperm needle in a couple of seconds. And can be brought down to the pre manipulated depth prior to the final manipulation and semen injection by sliding the outer tube through the O ring until the desired depth is reached.
> 
> The weight of the whole needle setup is adequate to prevent it from moving upwards during working and if too much insertion pressure is applied it can lift without creating harm to the queen especially when first starting out as a beginner.
> 
> But the needle can also be secured using a small PTFE push on adaptor if required.
> 
> The ring rest I have added to the latest stand and base works really well for the tweezer method and is very comfortable indeed.
> 
> 
> 
> The ring would remove many of the stresses involved when concentrating on keeping things still.
> 
> 
> 
> Total cost for the needle setup is around three dollars each in raw materials.
> 
> 
> image hosting site no sign up
> 
> Thanks Joe.


Here's is the tool upon the rail, the nylon rocker is a firm push fit over the rail which retains the ventral or sting hook and is really simple to use one handed using finger and thumb.

capture screen

posted image

Works nicely and there are no levers to accidently knock especially when your tired.


----------



## Gman

After reading the post i am glade to see i am not the only DIY out there.
My rig is off some old Doc found on the Internet. My Struggle has been do i Start with a Sting hook Or Tweeters as a fist timer.
Currently set up to do Both methods


----------



## beepro

I see on your syringe has 3 adapters--the black follow by a white band and then a light blue connected to the glass
tube at the end. Are these adapters homemade or you can buy them online?


----------



## Little boy blue

Gman said:


> After reading the post i am glade to see i am not the only DIY out there.
> My rig is off some old Doc found on the Internet. My Struggle has been do i Start with a Sting hook Or Tweeters as a fist timer.
> Currently set up to do Both methods
> View attachment 30744


If you like the sting hook method, I have found the easiest way to make them is from Sterling Silver, 0.80mm diameter wire, it is nice and soft and will work harden nicely afterwards.

Take a section of wire and either roll or hammer it flat at one end, Then anneal it to soften it again, let the metal cool down in air, then using a small pin vice and sewing needle of .50 mm diameter, slowly drill through the wire until you see signs of the needle coming through the other side.

Then push through the final layer until just the tip is showing, this should give you a tapered hole of between .20 -.15mm. 

Also if for some reason the hole ends up a little larger than you require, you can close the hole again by gently hammering on the area around the hole to squash or spread the metal down which will close the hole slightly.


----------



## Little boy blue

Multi II base.

Here is my first prototype at a multi II system.

The carousel has five rotating queen posts that lock in position in line with the needle, just waiting on the tube to arrive to fit all five queen posts, which are going to be glass bodies which I will heat harden once they are cut to size.

The gas supply is administered via an under fed supply to all posts and a circular common rail that is turned into the underside of the carousel and sealed with a felt washer around the periphery of the disk, see picture below.

upload a picture

The ventral hook is a simple rocker and Sterling wire which can be operated with one hand. The small brass hook to one side on the post is to aid hand and tweezers.

The recently serviced queen post cannot pass the ventral hook stand so as a queen that has already been treated cannot accidently pass and be serviced a second time, at this point a catcher/loader can remove the queen and load another tube with queen fitted.

As the queens move around the platform they are being administered gas as they go and should be depending on the flow settings be docile enough to begin work on, testing needs to be done to get the optimum and once achieved it should speed up the whole process in an uninterrupted flow of Queens through the system.

Two main operators are required, one to do the catching and loading of the queens and posts and one to do the inseminating uninterrupted.

Sperm collection can be done by both operators previously using two collecting syringes in case something goes wrong along the way. If you use the long needle and Harbo style setup the needles can be quickly interchanged without disturbing the initial settings by simply sliding the needle into the inner glass tube in a few seconds only.














free image uploading

Needle down feed is done manually via the two upper manipulator tubes that surround the needle which are a nice slide fit using the K & S brass tubing. The depth can also be pre-set to remove operator error.

The needle tracking is done via the two black adjusters knobs and the third brass nip screw triangulated and secures the whole setup from any play prior to infeed and injection.

Thoughts.


----------



## kilocharlie

Juhani & Johno -

Thank you for posting the CAD tutorials. That helps. I have a local 3D Printer / Makers club that is a little bit too expensive for me to join right now, but they are helpful. I'm looking in to building my first unit. Getting ahead on the software sure won't hurt.


----------



## Gman

beepro 
The syringe has the glass tube (home made from 4 mm glass)attached with a piece of silicone airline tube. The black is the stock plunger in the syringe.The air line tube fits tight on the syringe and the glass tube.I made a brass insert and thumb screw attached to threaded rode move the stock plunger.


----------



## Gman

Little boy blue
Thanks for the sting hook DIY i was stuck on the build of the sting hook . Now i can complete the Unit.


----------



## beepro

Thanks, now I see it, the idea of using a silicone airline tube to connect the glass tube to the
syringe. Do you put glue on any of the parts to secure them in place? Too bad for the glass tube I
don't know how to make a homemade version of it. Any idea where to buy a similar tube for this purpose online?


----------



## Little boy blue

beepro said:


> Thanks, now I see it, the idea of using a silicone airline tube to connect the glass tube to the
> syringe. Do you put glue on any of the parts to secure them in place? Too bad for the glass tube I
> don't know how to make a homemade version of it. Any idea where to buy a similar tube for this purpose online?


Try these for glass tubes and connectors they may have something similar that can be adapted.

http://www.thomassci.com/search/go?...jump=1&ThomasDomain=www.thomassci.com&cnt=300

http://www.thomassci.com/Laboratory-Supplies/Glass-Tubing/_/Disposable-NMR/EPR-Tube-Caps?q=*

Also a good supply of needle material

http://www.thomassci.com/Instruments/Melting-Point-Apparatus/_/MELTING-POINT-CAPILLARIES?q=*


----------



## Little boy blue

Gman said:


> Little boy blue
> Thanks for the sting hook DIY i was stuck on the build of the sting hook . Now i can complete the Unit.


Your welcome, the needle idea was actually Joe's idea, mine the silver wire which is also hypoallergenic and helps prevent septicaemia.

<<<<<Please would you be able to post a closer image of your syringe setup>>>>>>

I have been developing this sting hook system using a very fine sewing needle and a drilled nose cone, the plunger is made from 3/16" brass bar which is drilled in the end to take the needle and a spring from a small biro pen.

The idea is to push in the rear handle or plunger to expose the eye of the needle which has already a very smooth inner edge so it doesn't damage the thread in use. Once the sting is inserted into the eye the pressure on the plunger is released and closes it down to infinity trapping the sting as the hole closes down.

Below is an early example

upload image free

To stop the nose cone from passing through the brass tube you cut the tube using a normal tube cutter and the burrs left behind prevents it from going through, the other end is left open and square with no bur so everything slides inside.

The brass tube is 7/32" OD, K & S tubing USA.

The brass washer has a 5.5mm hole drilled which gives a nice press fit over the 7/32" tube, nice and tight no need for solder etc.

upload image online


----------



## Gman

Syringe Assembly


----------



## Gman

Beepro 
i got my glass tube from a sign shop here in Canada. They use it to process neon sign tubes they uses 4 - 6 mm .
i used the same method ass Little boy blue to make the needles.
the smaller size tube would be easier to get the taper size needed


----------



## Little boy blue

Gman said:


> Syringe Assembly
> View attachment 30815
> 
> View attachment 30816
> 
> View attachment 30817


Many thanks for the pictures Gman.

Do you let the saline enter the plastic or just the glass extension tube, which is in red, I take it is in the picture?


----------



## Gman

I have not Tried any of the Equipment yet . From reading i thought it would be best to keep the collection saline in the glass portion as it can be easily sterilized. With no experience in this field i will monitor the reply's . I see we have some others with great knowledge nudging us in the right directions


----------



## Juhani Lunden

Gman said:


> Little boy blue
> Thanks for the sting hook DIY i was stuck on the build of the sting hook . Now i can complete the Unit.


And remember, if you can see it with bold eye, it is too big.

If poison gets there, it might get so slippery it has to be cleaned, really nerve wrecking before Kari told me this.


----------



## beepro

Why not use a reversed tweezers instead for the sting hook?
I've ordered one already for this experiment. Hopefully it will get here soon.


----------



## Little boy blue

Gman said:


> I have not Tried any of the Equipment yet . From reading i thought it would be best to keep the collection saline in the glass portion as it can be easily sterilized. With no experience in this field i will monitor the reply's . I see we have some others with great knowledge nudging us in the right directions


From experience in the labs as a junior medic in the military we were taught that it's best to stick with glass if you can, especially where reproduction is concerned, due to plastics and their bi-product of its manufacture and a particular chemical known as BPA or Bisphenol A, also Zeno Eastrogens.

If certain alkaline or acidic mediums are used these chemicals can leach out from the plastic into the medium or mediums itself being stored within it, this was discovered back in the late 1800's, shortly after plastics were in manufacture, there is plenty of information in the medical journals about this phenomenon which can be detrimental to the early development of insects and humans.


----------



## Little boy blue

beepro said:


> Why not use a reversed tweezers instead for the sting hook?
> I've ordered one already for this experiment. Hopefully it will get here soon.


Thats a great idea, then the pressure is always present until your ready to lose off, in fact this is exactly how the Shelly grabbers work by positive pressure.


----------



## Little boy blue

Juhani Lunden said:


> And remember, if you can see it with bold eye, it is too big.
> 
> If poison gets there, it might get so slippery it has to be cleaned, really nerve wrecking before Kari told me this.


The pre-quote is from Gman, however, with my eyes I cannot see anything nearer than three feet away without spectacles, but I could see the item in question on the photo that I posted of my first attempt of a perforated sting hook, due to the nature of the technology.

That hook in question was accurately rolled down again in my jewelers rollers and should be right to go.

The real test situation will reveal all under the scope pretty soon.


----------



## teplov

No expensive professional hookshttp://carnica.all.biz/ I buy there, the price of 20 euros per set.


----------



## Little boy blue

Latest manipulator head.




image upload no limit

Below is my home made sting grabber, the sewing needle can be seen holding a .013 mm soft electrical wire.

upload img

I might need to go a size smaller needle but I will try it first.


----------



## teplov

Little boy blue. If the hole diameter to not more 0.20 mm then all is well. I wonder where you take your time? Well done.


----------



## Little boy blue

teplov said:


> Little boy blue. If the hole diameter to not more 0.20 mm then all is well. I wonder where you take your time? Well done.


Дякую

The needle hole will close to zero if there is no sting inside the eye, so I think it will work.

Maybe alter the end nose shape to match curve of sting.


----------



## JSL

Little boy blue said:


> upload img
> 
> I might need to go a size smaller needle but I will try it first.


Too many other commitments with the bee season gearing up! Danny, the instruments are coming along nicely. Just a couple of quick comments. I would be cautious with the multiple queen carousel. It does not reduce handling, and the queens in close like that may interfere with your working space. Looking at your sting manipulator, my concern would be working space. Instruments need to be very small and compact especially with the initial approach to open and secure the queen. There just isn't much room to maneuver.


----------



## Little boy blue

JSL said:


> Too many other commitments with the bee season gearing up! Danny, the instruments are coming along nicely. Just a couple of quick comments. I would be cautious with the multiple queen carousel. It does not reduce handling, and the queens in close like that may interfere with your working space. Looking at your sting manipulator, my concern would be working space. Instruments need to be very small and compact especially with the initial approach to open and secure the queen. There just isn't much room to maneuver.


Hi Joe

My initial design analysis for this apparatus goes as follows.

You would think at first glance that there is a limited space, but after measuring up there is actually a little more room than many other systems out there. The hands actually work around the outer edge instead of in between posts, the sting hook itself can be retracted and swung out of the way immediately without having to turn any lock screws etc. If you use tweezers for the sting this post is absent giving a little more space.

The left hand doesn't come into contact with the queen posts while working, and the injection needle can be lifted completely out of the working area inside it's inner protective tube in about a second leaving three full inches for comfortably removing the newly serviced post.

The catcher loader will work on the opposite side of the table loading, as the vacant post is fitted, and at the same time the treated post is removed by them from the other side so as to prevent any clash of hands. This stage alone takes the seasoned operators in the videos I have watched about half a minute to load up properly without possible damage to the queens legs etc, so a huge saving when you are doing many queens an hour.

The ventral hook cam is ideal because it replaces the more clumbersom arm that would normall be used. 

The hook is then swung back over and hangs completely out of the way of the table as it is indexed round.

The base is eight inches across. There is a good two inches between queen posts.

I have other designs in the pipeline that can be adopted but, this one simplifies the gas supply to all posts at once and is positioned so that the queens get a little less gas as they approach the central supply area where after this point they get a little more prior to being worked upon.

There is still a lot of work and testing to be done from the team who will be testing it out this summer.


----------



## AstroBee

JSL said:


> I would be cautious with the multiple queen carousel. It does not reduce handling, and the queens in close like that may interfere with your working space.


I agree, The process of placing the queen in the holder is easy and really doesn't add much to the entire process. Besides, with the carousel you'll need to keep them anesthetized longer than necessary. I'm assuming that CO2 is fed to all tubes. If not anesthetized and left inside the tubes, the queens may injure themselves trying to get out. I place them in the holder and quickly place them in the CO2 stream. Minor position adjustments are still possible while anesthetized. 

Great work! I've been admiring your craftsmanship.


----------



## Juhani Lunden

teplov said:


> If the hole diameter to not more 0.20 mm then all is well.


I did measurements (from several photos and with electornic caliper ) of my sting hook dimensions, and get the same result: 0,2mm.


----------



## Little boy blue

AstroBee said:


> I agree, The process of placing the queen in the holder is easy and really doesn't add much to the entire process. Besides, with the carousel you'll need to keep them anesthetized longer than necessary. I'm assuming that CO2 is fed to all tubes. If not anesthetized and left inside the tubes, the queens may injure themselves trying to get out. I place them in the holder and quickly place them in the CO2 stream. Minor position adjustments are still possible while anesthetized.
> 
> Great work! I've been admiring your craftsmanship.


Yes the gas is fed to all posts with the initial or main supply coming in at the opposite side facing the injector position.

The gas dissipates either side of this feed in point and travels in either direction around the channel shown underneath in the pictures shown earlier round to the vent or fifth post that is always open next to the tool post for the ventral hook.

As the queens in their posts move round and each one is serviced, they receive slightly more gas towards the final working position.

I have noticed that the queens are placed prior to handling in a seperate container to pre-med her before loading her into the service post/s, this is equivalent to the same amount of gas when they are first placed into the starting point on the turn table, and a steady continuation of that amount of gas is extant thereafter in relation to its position from the in feed or exhaust position under the carousel or turntable.

When watching others working, once out of the flow of gas the queens recover quite quickly, my question earlier was, can you give too much gas and actually asphyxiate the queen and actually kill her ?, IE volume versus time??

I designed this system in mind to be used with two operators, one catching and loading and working from the opposite side of the table, leaving the other to concentrate on injecting alone, which would save down time between catching, pre-gassing, loading and positioning.

It's a new idea from the sole operators point of view and needs more study to iron out any problems, thanks for the kind words and encouragement BTW.

There are a few more ideas in the pipe line.


----------



## Little boy blue

Juhani Lunden said:


> I did measurements (from several photos and with electornic caliper ) of my sting hook dimensions, and get the same result: 0,2mm.
> 
> View attachment 30854


The modern cameras really do show more detail in close up situations than the general good human eye don't they


----------



## Little boy blue

Finally found an easy way to make a decent sting hook.

I took a Sterling silver wire 1.00 mm and rolled it down to .50 mm and then annealed it to soften it.

Then simply took a small sewing needle .50 mm diameter and using a small clock makers hammer pierced it with a couple of gentle taps.

Then using a .018 gauge wire I gently reamed it using the same needle held in a pin chuck until the hole was to the desired size.

Down time to make things fit was around 4 minutes from piercing the hole.

image ru

After reshaping and work hardening the result was quite satisfactory.

The picture above shows the very point of the needle showing after only two gentle taps of the hammer, I have gauged the very point of this sewing needle to be near the .008 area.

If you don't have a set of rolls you can hammer it flat or buy ready made flat strip .50 mm which is already annealed. I rolled the entire length of wire here, but you can leave the opposite end to the eye, fully round to fit in a pin chuck like those pictured on my manipulator arms for easy removal.

When you pierce the metal use a block of hardwood to hammer against and do so away from the very end, so it doesn't bend inwards, IE, leave a few millimeters length past where the hole will be and sand down using 320 paper afterwards.






photo sharing sites

screen shot pc

The shank of the needle show here is. 50 mm in diameter

You can buy a 300.00 mm long wire of silver here for only £ 2.21 including tax and make quite a few which work out at pennies each.

http://www.cooksongold.com/product_detail.jsp?add=n

Hit the show more button and add your amount then update for prices.

Hope that helps what can be a task and a half to many who want to make their own for less.


----------



## Juhani Lunden

Little boy blue said:


> ...and rolled it down ...
> ...then annealed it to soften it...
> 
> ...a small clock makers hammer pierced it...
> ...reamed it using the same needle held in a pin chuck until the hole was to size...
> ... I have gauged the very point of this sewing needle to be near the .008 area..
> ...you don't have a set of rolls you can hammer it flat...
> ...and sand down using 320 paper afterwards...


Wow, you sure are a craftsman! 
Reminds me of a car restoration course I took back in 2005 in Peterborough. Iain and Bruce Macleod teached us how to bend metal with English wheel and dozens of other tools.


----------



## Little boy blue

Juhani Lunden said:


> Wow, you sure are a craftsman!
> Reminds me of a car restoration course I took back in 2005 in Peterborough. Iain and Bruce Macleod teached us how to bend metal with English wheel and dozens of other tools.


Peterborough England? Sounds cool, I have restored quite a few old motorcycles in the past.

I have run instrument courses and given detailed instruction to many international students in the past and really enjoyed working with many Europeans and one Japanese student who stayed with us for six months.

But this II project has been one of the most critical and a real challenge which I seem to thrive on.

Once I have mastered this paradigm, I might give detailed instructions of how to make a system all rolled into one, maybe.

Kiltos.


----------



## Juhani Lunden

Little boy blue said:


> Peterborough England?


http://www.contourautocraft.co.uk/

(Ole hyvä= You are wellcome)


----------



## Little boy blue

Juhani Lunden said:


> http://www.contourautocraft.co.uk/
> 
> (Ole hyvä= You are wellcome)


Top shop and tools, brilliant.

Love the old English rolls and auto hammers.

Did you use any of the skills learned, in your line of work today.


----------



## Juhani Lunden

Little boy blue said:


> Did you use any of the skills learned, in your line of work today.


Not really, that kind of restoration work they taught us was in my mind to do as a side line enterprise on my farm, but it turned out that I don´t have the time.

Plus machines are different in farm work, for instance welding, as you know !


----------



## Little boy blue

Juhani Lunden said:


> Not really, that kind of restoration work they taught us was in my mind to do as a side line enterprise on my farm, but it turned out that I don´t have the time.
> 
> Plus machines are different in farm work, for instance welding, as you know !


I understand farming as my parents were farmers and bee keepers for many generations traced back to 1508 in our family tree and where my own hands skills were born in many ways, like welding, where I was once a coded welder in Mig, Tig, aluminium and steel for several years in my youth.

Our farm was only 110 acres and not able to support more than one family and why engineering was the avenue for getting other things done in house, like bee keeping and making ones own equipment, where the savings soon outweigh the need for working for money in many ways. This many have lost and to their detriment in lots of ways.

But this trend is reversing today using technology and the sharing of stored knowledge right here in Beesource. 

Where our futures depend upon the things we make.

A film about skep making and a wonderful old bee keeper and ex farmer for a little added nostalgia.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xn...e-skeps-staw-l-lipework-full-nideo_shortfilms


----------



## johno

Hi blue, you have really been busy with you equipment. I have not progressed much further at the moment but need to order in some cap tubes and some silver wire, I am slowly forging ahead with the cad program and have designed some parts to make up the post and arm hinges. I have also enjoyed your links unfortunately seem to have some trouble watching the one on the old skep maker
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOO5qRjVFLw here is one for you.
Johno


----------



## Little boy blue

johno said:


> Hi blue, you have really been busy with you equipment. I have not progressed much further at the moment but need to order in some cap tubes and some silver wire, I am slowly forging ahead with the cad program and have designed some parts to make up the post and arm hinges. I have also enjoyed your links unfortunately seem to have some trouble watching the one on the old skep maker
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOO5qRjVFLw here is one for you.
> Johno


Hi Johno

Sounds like your having fun with the 3D and drawing, I will be joining you soon.

I have been busy and near to completion I think, with a few wild ideas thrown in for good luck, I'm going to need it no doubt but I'm ready. Some good news though, I have just secured one of the best natural locations for an apiary only walking distance for me and my hand cart, a truly undisturbed area many miles from Big Pharma. 

If you try a search for the film at your side, the title is, Hands 36 Of bees and skeps, they were a series of short films made in the 80's by RTE in Ireland about the dwindling skills once common place throughout the world.

Eye the pipes, where we live is Culloden Tower and a reminder of those wilder years, it's now a Landmark Trust property which can be rented out, I have often spoken to many American folks over the garden gate that lies right next to the road in there, who have rented it.

You can see the tower here and my garden at the beginning of the film.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWNadNc-lkg


----------



## Juhani Lunden

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yP9Qt-bSz40


----------



## Little boy blue

Juhani Lunden said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yP9Qt-bSz40


Lakes full of fish too.

Love the supermarket logo nice one JL.

The FINNS were part of and helped my grandfather escape, where he eventually hid for the last 18 months of WW2 in Vienna in a loft, great escape story of gathering food and honey at night times to survive.


----------



## Juhani Lunden

What is the Moldovian song about?


----------



## Little boy blue

Juhani Lunden said:


> What is the Moldovian song about?


The song is from the Donal Lunny album, if you like it here is a better recording from the band.

https://www.shazam.com/gb/track/63402264/moldavian-triptich


It's about myth and legend and the word comes originally from the Ancient Greek word meaning three fold.

Check out also their legends of their women folk who are only allowed to bath their new born, it is a wonderful culture.

http://moldovathelandoflegends.blogspot.co.uk/2011/01/traditions-in-moldova.html?m=1

They have a very mild climate great for bees and wine and revered by the ancient Romans.


----------



## johno

Hey Juhani, so the Finns beat the Russians, that's no big deal they still have not learned how to play rugby yet.
Johno


----------



## Juhani Lunden

johno said:


> Hey Juhani, so the Finns beat the Russians, that's no big deal they still have not learned how to play rugby yet.
> Johno


I know I know, situation is no good, sorry about that, some are trying to learn though

http://rugby.fi/


----------



## beepro

Have you heard of square foot gardening?
110 acres cannot feed a family then you must have a rather big family. I'll bet with
that many acres you can keep many growing hives there.


----------



## Little boy blue

beepro said:


> Have you heard of square foot gardening?
> 110 acres cannot feed a family then you must have a rather big family. I'll bet with
> that many acres you can keep many growing hives there.


Yes we do similar today in our large allotment, perfect soil for the job and much lower down from the fell type situation and location were were brought up with.

We had more rocks than soil, but we did have a seasonal run of salmon in the small beck that ran through our land.

The honey was superb with wild Heather and bilberry on the fell, but no large deciduous woodland, only scattered hedgerows and not many hawthorn either. Plenty of bracken all around though.

Never bet unless one truly knows the odds


----------



## Juhani Lunden

I drawed my first insemination device part with FreeCAD 3D program. 

They say it can read for instance STL format, but couldn´t choose it when saving my file. Don´t know why. :s 

3D printer device in Tampere University prefers STL -format.


----------



## johno

Hi Juhani, This is the beauty of the Autodesk Fusion 360 cad program. You can select to have your drawing down loaded into STL for 3D printing. This program can be unloaded free of charge to hobbyists and small start up companies. You can google fusion 360 and they will point you where you can download it.
Johno


----------



## Little boy blue

Nearing completion.

A couple of pictures of the first chassis I made with a few mods.

I have found an easier way to make the queen post, this version houses the holding tube/glass, inside a brass tube I/D 11.00 mm which slides in nicely, the seal is an O Ring or felt sat in the bottom which the glass tube sits on top of.

The manipulator is the same standard tub within tube as all the other prototypes throughout.














image upload no ads

The syringe can be stowed upon the platform itself or used in the hand and worked by finger and thumb.

free picture upload


----------



## Little boy blue

Earlier plywood model complete. 












picture sharing








screen shot on pc


----------



## Little boy blue

This earlier model with much smaller 3/16 rod end posts.

New queen post and holder.

The sting hook is held in place using a small wedied slot that the tool pushes into.












image sharing sites






upload img


----------



## jcase

Can I get an opinion on this microscope? 

https://www.amazon.com/AmScope-SE400-Z-Professional-Microscope-Magnification/dp/B005C75IVM/

also, I'm finding mixed info on this, but do LED lights count as cold lights (no UV) ?


----------



## Little boy blue

Here you go the same scope.

https://youtube.com/channel/UCzdegKr4LhK4ypZqvA0R8mw

Scroll down to inexpensive sterio microscopes.


----------



## jcase

Thanks, do you think that is appropriate for II? I already have a USB one but I'm not quite sure it will cut it for II.

Edit Ordered the 10x/15x variant, will post results with it and with the cheap usb 10x one I have once I have some queens ready


----------



## Little boy blue

Another member Teplov in the Ukraine in this thread has the same model but labelled Zenith and has done over 2000 queens I think with one, and on this recommendation I will get one pretty soon, looks well made too.


----------



## jcase

My AmScope SE400-Y (https://www.amazon.com/AmScope-SE400-Y-Professional-Microscope-Magnification/dp/B005C77FPY) arrived today. Obviously havent used it as it is STILL FREAKING SNOWING, but scope seems sturdy and well built. Much better quality than my current usb microscope setup, might have to use one for soldering as well.


----------



## teplov

A good choice.


----------



## Gman

Nice i got the same brand 10x 20x have done a few sample setups and look with dead worker bees very clear images . Snow and rain for me Still .Getting ready for my spring adventure into AI


----------



## beepro

I have not make or buy my glass tube that attached to the syringe yet. Is there an online place or offline to
get it? I need a link to direct me there. Other AI stuffs I can get them locally or make some.


----------



## Little boy blue

beepro said:


> I have not make or buy my glass tube that attached to the syringe yet. Is there an online place or offline to
> get it? I need a link to direct me there. Other AI stuffs I can get them locally or make some.


These would do the job

http://m.ebay.com/itm/151809989357?_mwBanner=1


----------



## beepro

Dups!


----------



## beepro

Thanks, Blue. I already got those when the first link posted here.
Maybe I don't know how to put everything together yet. So you just take the needle out and replaced it
with this tube? Or there is a special syringe adapter to twist in the syringe that will hold the tube inside the adapter as well? Any
pic you can show me of these connection in close up? Trying to picture how it all put together.


----------



## Little boy blue

beepro said:


> Thanks, Blue. I already got those when the first link posted here.
> Maybe I don't know how to put everything together yet. So you just take the needle out and replaced it
> with this tube? Or there is a special syringe adapter to twist in the syringe that will hold the tube inside the adapter as well?
> 
> Any pic you can show me of these connection in close up? Trying to picture how it all put together.


My version has the sperm needle is inserted directly onto the end of the laboratory tubing itself, then this all slides snugly up inside the main glass tube, it's very simple and needs no adapters, just another tiny section of tube over the needle to create a guide inside the main tube to create stability without any sideways movement.
One can make any length of needle and also protect it inside the outer tube by gentle pulling on the tube until its all inside and vice versa at will.






image hosting gif

If your using a standard plastic syringe you can make an adapter from the push on end of a standard disposable needle, go for a vetinary sized needle that has a similar sized shank or dia as your glass sperm needle.

Remove the metal shank by gently heating it mid way, away from the plastic, let the heat travel up the shank until it pulls out of the plastic fitting, now you need to insert the new glass needle by drilling the plastic OR inserting the glass needle while the plastic is still soft, so it's a firm fit, if the fit is tight enough you won't need to glue it. Make several of these so you can quickly change them.

I opted for the glass tube setup and my home made Harbo type syringe as it gives you much more accuracy having an independent syringe where your hands are not in contact with the apparatus whilst pumping.

Here is what the Harbo system has for their syringe, not cheap but the very best for the price, but a lot cheaper than the ready made one from the II gurus at up to 1200 dollars a pop, all you need to do is make your own simple stand and add the tube and needle like I have. 

https://www.coleparmer.com/p/gilmont-micrometer-dispensers/889

https://www.coleparmer.com/i/gilmont-gs-1200-a-micrometer-burette-style-dispenser-1-ea/0784600


Hope that helps.


----------



## beepro

Assuming that the sperm tube is the part extending pass the green tip in this pic http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Syringes...716426?hash=item19ea5672ca:g:VTwAAOxyUgtTK8OR
you think these type of syringes will fit the sperm tube? What is the gauge size of the sperm tube anyway? I bought the whole 200 glass tubes in a bottle but not sure what the gauge size is. Knowing this will help with choosing the right size syringe to use for this set up. So now what?


----------



## Little boy blue

beepro said:


> Assuming that the sperm tube is the part extending pass the green tip in this pic http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Syringes...716426?hash=item19ea5672ca:g:VTwAAOxyUgtTK8OR
> you think these type of syringes will fit the sperm tube? What is the gauge size of the sperm tube anyway? I bought the whole 200 glass tubes in a bottle but not sure what the gauge size is. Knowing this will help with choosing the right size syringe to use for this set up. So now what?


Those are dispenser tips that lock and twist upon a spigot, they could work if they are the same taper as your main syringe, if not you would be better off using standard needles that fasten upon a taper.

This is the type of needles you need, they are sold individually.

http://www.calvetsupply.com/product/Needles_22_x_1_1_2/203

Measure the O/D of your glass tubes and try to match that with the hypodermic needles you buy, if you haven't got a digital measurer yet grab one of these.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01D...=Z2R8WPXSTT6Q7P8SWSGK&dpPl=1&dpID=61GZJzkk9RL


----------



## teplov

https://www.coleparmer.com/i/gilmont-gs-1200-a-micrometer-burette-style-dispenser-1-ea/0784600 I'm for that amount of money I send mail equipment ready for use.


----------



## Little boy blue

teplov said:


> https://www.coleparmer.com/i/gilmont-gs-1200-a-micrometer-burette-style-dispenser-1-ea/0784600 I'm for that amount of money I send mail equipment ready for use.


You could do it easy and people save €900.00.


----------



## Little boy blue

image hosting over 5mb






upload an image

Above is a very quick jot in Solidworks 3d of a different version I threw together tonight.

I'm up and running with a new system, when I get things organised I will post more very soon including 3d files for printing.

New idea for a compact manipulator arm post.

photo host

image hosting 10mb limit


----------



## Little boy blue

upload gif from url

Section view of basic components 

print screen

The purple tube is the glass 4.00mm.

The Queen post can be fitted to suit the required position in its slot.

The needle tube can be moved to accommodate the length of sperm needle which is manually operated.

This will be my first 3d unit using ready made brass tubing for simplicity with only one piece needing machining which is the yellow body the transcends the main 19.00mm diameter swivel tube. And only one soldered joint where the vertical adjuster pivots, and where the Queen post tube holder connects to it Base plate at 30 degrees.


----------



## jcase

Received my Schley 1 02 today. I have no words but 'schwing'.


----------



## Little boy blue

The second of my 3d units now ready for printing.

This one has X & Y positive tracking via a dovetail on the Base and a hinge with left and right hand threaded cylinders using an internal compression spring next to the main wheel for play free adjusting.

The injection feed is done using the same simple tube within tube method as all the others II Units.

I'm quite confident about this one which is very compact needing minimum of tools to take apart.

It requires the JL method of holding the sting and a trackable ventral hook which is independent of the Queen post.










upload img

When I get through the quality checks I will post all the JTL's for everyone to begin printing.

image hosting 30 mb


----------



## jcase

I need a recommendation on a cool light. I'm not sure if the light on my microscope would count, easy way to tell or what should I ask the manufacturer?


----------



## AstroBee

jcase said:


> Received my Schley 1 02 today. I have no words but 'schwing'.
> 
> 
> View attachment 31569


Congrats! An amazing piece of equipment. 

Here's the light source I use: 

http://www.amscope.com/accessories/...-goose-neck-microscope-illuminator-light.html


----------



## Little boy blue

jcase said:


> I need a recommendation on a cool light. I'm not sure if the light on my microscope would count, easy way to tell or what should I ask the manufacturer?


I'm currently building a reflector mirror setup that reflects pure sunlight through a liquid lens to cool the UV light.

Failing that there are many cheaper led lights on the market that have a flexible Lance like the one below.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00F..._SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=flexi+torch

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000...d+flexible&dpPl=1&dpID=31SoUEv6o6L&ref=plSrch


----------



## jcase

AstroBee said:


> Congrats! An amazing piece of equipment.
> 
> Here's the light source I use:
> 
> http://www.amscope.com/accessories/...-goose-neck-microscope-illuminator-light.html


It feels and looks completely amazing, this is the amscope I bought, would the led light that comes with it work? http://www.amscope.com/10x-15x-stereo-binocular-microscope-boom-arm-light.html

Threw down a deposit with Sue Colby as well, waiting to see when our schedules line up.


----------



## jcase

Little boy blue said:


> I'm currently building a reflector mirror setup that reflects pure sunlight through a liquid lens to cool the UK light.
> 
> Failing that there are many cheaper led lights on the market that have a flexible Lance like the one below.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00F..._SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=flexi+torch


So are LEDs in general considered 'cool'? Wondering if the led on my scope is fine


----------



## AstroBee

jcase said:


> It feels and looks completely amazing, this is the amscope I bought, would the led light that comes with it work? http://www.amscope.com/10x-15x-stereo-binocular-microscope-boom-arm-light.html
> 
> Threw down a deposit with Sue Colby as well, waiting to see when our schedules line up.


Don't know, I don't have any experience with that unit. This is the one I have:

www.amscope.com/7x-45x-trinocular-inspection-microscope-with-super-large-stand.html


----------



## Little boy blue

JC

Test the light using a thermometer at roughly the distance you will be using it from the Queen post.

Teplov uses the same scope he will know how it performs.


----------



## teplov

LED lightening all good, this is the smallest problem. Better yet, if you can adjust the light.


----------



## Little boy blue

The latest design under the 3D printer model is this much simpler design using only 17 separate pieces and standard glass tube inside brass tube queen posts.

All glass items are standard off of the shelf tube from 

www.scientificglass.co.uk 

The forward adjustment is driven by a simpleugenical internal geared mechanism using a plastic crown wheel and pinnon shaft.

Needle feed is manual using tube within tube and manual tweezer sting manipulation.












image upload


----------



## beekuk

Little boy blue said:


> I also agree, it's all down to practice at the end of the day, something I'm going to find out about soon enough.


Danny, have you inseminated any queens yet with any of your new apparatus?


----------



## beepro

I pick up majority off these gadget at the local dollar store except for the LED scope and glass syringe which I bought on ebay. 
Maybe after I'm done with a working apparatus I will spray paint them chrome and copper color. 
Simple so far. Still gathering materials to make this assembly possible. Need to figure out how to get the CO2 gadget set up next. Any idea on the CO2 how to?


Dollar store stuffs:


----------



## sebashtionh

first attempt at pulling tips









this is the proto type for the puller stand









testing the heater wire on a PC power supply 5V side


----------



## teplov

The external diameter at the end of the tube has to be 0,27-0,3 mm long. Afore the beginning of the tube expansion the internat diameter should be 0.15mm or even more.
If the external diameter will be larger than 0.3mm, it can injuries the queen bee during insemination.


----------



## teplov

like this


----------



## sebashtionh

thank you working on the drop rig need better coil for the heating element. the one i posted was hand pulled.
have to work on the powersupply i would like to make a self contained puller with power inside


----------



## sebashtionh

would something like this work for powering the heat for making the tips?

https://www.amazon.com/Tekpower-TP3...004292&sr=8-1&keywords=variable++power+supply


----------



## teplov

I use а spiral of nichrome.






Cargo weight 100-150 grams.


----------



## sebashtionh

ok the pc atx is not working on the 12v side it doesnt power up, unhook it and it powers up... in the video the guy uses a battery charger is there a modification to the charger or just hook it up?


----------



## teplov

there is a modification to the charger. hook a variable resistor to the begin the electric circuit and match your desired outcome impedance for proper heating spiral. My electric circuit formed like this -- a battery charger -- a variable resistor -- а spiral of nichrome.


----------



## teplov

a variable resistor looks like this


----------



## Little boy blue

teplov said:


> there is a modification to the charger. hook a variable resistor to the begin the electric circuit and match your desired outcome impedance for proper heating spiral. My electric circuit formed like this -- a battery charger -- a variable resistor -- а spiral of nichrome.


In the video of the guy using a large battery charger you can hear the charger set to its boost power setting.

To create enough amps you will need a large battery charger to do the job.

However you can use a standard housing lighting dimmer switch or fan speed adjust unit for the power source, the house mains give about 4 amps which is enough to heat a single turn coil of 1 or 1.5mm dia wire.

https://m.platt.com/platt-electric-...lectronics/KBWC-115K/Products.aspx?pid=426147

https://m.platt.com/platt-electric-...ry/Leviton/RTD01-10Z/Products.aspx?pid=738497

Ask your electrical supplier for something that will work with what you have.

My heating coil wire is 1.00mm dia.

As Teplov dia shows, you need to experiment with coil wire gauge/dia and internal space of the coil itself till you find a happy medium.

My wire is 1.00 mm diameter and the internal of the finished single turn coil roughly 4.00mm.

What I found during the design phase is, the closer the coil is to the glass tube during heating the faster the glass melts and the shorter the overall glass tips will be.

It all depends upon preference and how you find things will work with your paticular setup and or tooling.


----------



## sebashtionh

I bought a battery charger last night but it didn't heat the coil, does it need to be an old charger with out all the safety features?
also the 5watt on the computer ATX power supply heats the coil but the 12v side doesn't. im not an electrician so this is baffling me  
I did buy the 1mm nichrome. 

I tried the cutting the tips that did work with the calipers, looking under the scope they are jagged at the break and angled like Blue said so i took out the ones that cane with the schley and those are angled and some of them wobble when twisted between your fingers. so is it really a problem being angled or crooked if the ones that come with the equipment are that way?


----------



## sebashtionh

would you show me a picture of yours please


----------



## Little boy blue

sebashtionh said:


> would you show me a picture of yours please


What you need is more amps by using the best tool called a variac or a mains dimmer switch so you can fine tune the voltage, you can get it right using a battery charger but everything needs to be spot on every time.


https://postimg.org/image/59na2i18f/

Any of these units will do and you can power just about any device with it as well.


http://m.ebay.com/sch/i.html?cmd=SKW&_pgn=1&_nkw=variac

I opted for the shorter length tips like Teplov, because they seal better once inserted and are easier to judge for depth.

To get the best cut I did what BeeUK advised by severing the two needles in half using a very sharp carbon blade; I mounted my blade in a small groove in a block of wood and use an eraser to push against the glass.

If you use the verneer it can tend to snap the tips less accurately because the jaws of the gauge are square and the needle is tapered.

To clean up the ends I glued a patch of 1200 grit wet and dry to the bottom of a small saucer and at a slight angle rub them gently with water just covering the paper. 

Once you have cleaned it up gently warm the end in a flame very quickly indeed until you get the timing right, this will smooth over the very tip, and if you get it just right it will leave the very tiniest bulb shaped edge which slides in easier if your slightly out of line without stressing the VP. 

Try to make the tips a tad narrower at first and rub them back to the desired I'D, as you flame treat the ends the overall I'D enlarges also, and it doesn't take much to sand them back either.

If you go back to page 10 and work forward you can back track through our journey here on the forum.


----------



## teplov

works like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOVBHBVIdg0&t=154s


----------



## beepro

Just finish fitting the syringe with a dab of silicone glue to hold the capillary tube in. Both ends of the cap tube is pulled out making
a smaller end that will fit in the syringe better then glue it together. Thanks for the idea of using an adapter. Silicone glue is the way to go for
adapter from now on. It can be easily remove since silicone will not stick to glass syringe that much. Making progress so far almost done now. 

Can I reuse the capillary tube after cleaning and disinfection or use a new one every time? Making them is not that easy. Is there a source to order online for the finish ones?


Silicone adapt syringe:


----------



## jcase

Just did my first attempt at AI! I've got a fair bit of experience soldering piano wire for forensic data extraction, so I may have a jump on the skillset but.. it was easy.

Honestly, hardest (only hard part) is the semen collection. Only advice there, make sure you dont get a worker in the flight cage... ouch that sucked. Reached in , grabbed a "drone" and started to roll "him".its been a few hours and my thumb is still numb.


----------



## jcase

Just left Sue Cobey's place, 3 days of II. Felt bad dissecting all those queens I worked so hard inseminating, but looking good. Ended up getting the harbo syringe, it just makes things easier.

Dealing with the drones is by far the more difficult aspect.


----------



## teplov

I agree. Any equipment becomes useless if, for example, hands tremble, how to take sperm?


----------



## beepro

Hands trembling, maybe you need a drone popping the thingy out gadget. Or a micro surgery apparatus to
extract the semen without killing the drones there by reusing the same drones the next time. Someday someone will
invent these gadgets to make the I.I. process much easier. Consolidate the semen in a centrifuge to make the insemination
process much faster too.


----------



## jcase

Can anyone link to a source for 100ul and 75ul glass capillary tubes for the US? The ones for storage with the harbo syringe are 100ul, the ones used for making the tips are 75ul.


----------



## teplov

Please http://www.geneq.com/en/biotechnology/clinical-instruments-and-labware/hematocrit-capillary-tubes.html I use these


----------



## jcase

teplov said:


> Please http://www.geneq.com/en/biotechnology/clinical-instruments-and-labware/hematocrit-capillary-tubes.html I use these


Thank you, I ended up finding some on amazon, took a lot of keyword kungfu.


----------



## jcase

Little boy blue said:


> Hi JL
> 
> My first attempt at needles went quite well.



By chance can you share a list of components for your tip puller, and perhaps some more pictures? The person (Sue) I get mine from is overwhelmed with requests right now, and I only have two.


----------



## Little boy blue

The step by step process of how I made my tip puller is in the pages of this thread and is a lot to relist, but if there is any specific item you need to know about I will try to guide as best as I can.


----------



## jcase

Little boy blue said:


> The step by step process of how I made my tip puller is in the pages of this thread and is a lot to relist, but if there is any specific item you need to know about I will try to guide as best as I can.


LBB,

Mostly interested in the distance you pull them, I'm off to the hardware store in a bit as soon as I finish my partlist

edit* The sizing of the coil would be of interest as well perhaps.

Thank you


----------



## Little boy blue

I evenntually found as decent scope and have been busy practicing the art of insemination down at my freinds yard. I also have a new site much nearer to home a couple of minutes walk on private land,but there are plenty of Mr Badgers around to contend with.

The scope is an oldish Askania by Zeiss and she has a full 200.00mm working distance below the objective using the upgraded base and articulated arm setup, a really fine instrument.

https://ibb.co/h1orSa


----------



## Little boy blue

I settled for a short drop of 30.00mm below the bottom of the drop weight and the base, this gives shorter tips like Teplov's which are slightly stronger at the tip, which also make a better seal once inserted due to the slightly steeper angle nearing the very end, they act as a plug and are much easier to see during use.

My own heating coil is made from 1.00mm wire and has two twists and an ID of 6.00mm, try also 1.50mm wire, if you play about with the internal diameter of the coil you will soon see how the tips turn out differently, I don't think there is an exact science to getting the tips you require, its practice and preference and down to what dia tubes you can find.

https://ibb.co/cZgWtF

https://ibb.co/cfbjfv

I gave a list of suppliers earlier that are better than the eBay route and more available.

Once you build it and get the parameters right you can made dozens an hour.

I would opt for a variac rather than a battery charger for the power source, here is an ideal unit/s, you dont need anything larger than 10 amp output 6 amp would even do the job very smoothly.

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/variacs/8902793/

http://www.ete.co.uk/product/variable-autotransformer-2-amp-bench-mounted-1ph/


----------



## jcase

Perfect thank you.

I'm still playing with the tips, I've used ones from Schley and Cobey, quite a bit difference in size I think, but have had success with the Cobey ones. Schley ones appear larger and longer in the tip (First 2 queens i did with Schley, the next couple dozen I did with Sue's tips).

I'm about to go shopping for some parts, afterwards I will attempt to build the tip puller. I'm not super interested in making them, but I'm afraid I'll end up without a supplier in the future. Better self supplied than running around looking for someone to make some one day in the future.



Little boy blue said:


> I settled for a short drop of 30.00mm below the bottom of the drop weight and the base, this gives shorter tips like Teplov's which are slightly stronger at the tip, which also make a better seal once inserted due to the slightly steeper angle nearing the very end, they act as a plug and are much easier to see during use.
> 
> My own heating coil is made from 1.00mm wire and has two twists and an ID of 6.00mm, try also 1.50mm wire, if you play about with the internal diameter of the coil you will soon see how the tips turn out differently, I don't think there is an exact science to getting the tips you require, its practice and preference and down to what dia tubes you can find.
> 
> <a href="https://ibb.co/cZgWtF"><img src="https://preview.ibb.co/fGjjDF/20170610_164017_1.jpg" alt="20170610_164017_1" border="0"></a><br /><a target='_blank' href='https://imgbb.com/'>gif hoster</a><br />
> 
> <a href="https://ibb.co/cZgWtF"><img src="https://preview.ibb.co/fGjjDF/20170610_164017_1.jpg" alt="20170610_164017_1" border="0"></a><br /><a target='_blank' href='https://imgbb.com/'>gif hoster</a><br />
> 
> I gave a list of suppliers earlier that are better than the eBay route and more available.
> 
> Once you build it and get the parameters right you can made dozens an hour.
> 
> I would opt for a variac rather than a battery charger for the power source, here is an ideal unit/s, tou dont need anything larger than 10 amp.
> 
> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/variacs/8902793/s.
> 
> http://www.ete.co.uk/product/variable-autotransformer-2-amp-bench-mounted-1ph/


----------



## Little boy blue

I agree with you entirely J C, independance is my preffered paradigm, and you will most likely be asked for making some tips for others as I did.

Dan.


----------



## jcase

Little boy blue said:


> I agree with you entirely J C, independance is my preffered paradigm, and you will most likely be asked for making some tips for others as I did.
> 
> Dan.


I've got it all sorted out i think, except for the weight. Couldnt come up with anything off the shelf that would keep it centered.

Regarding making them for others, I'll probably take a couple weekends during the winter and make a ton of them, I was warned of that when I first asked about it during my II classes.


----------



## Little boy blue

I used a short section of aluminum tube and turned a hardwood insert and drilled an 8.00mm hole in the centre to slide over an 8.00mm post set in the base.
I'm going to mod the drop weight on my rig for one twice the depth 3 inches long, so the weight is guided by one and a half inches before she starts to drop, this will keep it properly in line, because if it wanders ever so slightly the tips dont come out perfectly straight.

I forgot to say, the nip screw on the drop weight has a small rubber tube inserted into the top half inch which the glass tube fits exactly, this only needs the lightest nip to secrure it so it don't break the glass.

When you drill the hole in the top of the weight try not to drill through into the main shaft hole below, so when you insert the glass tube it bottoms out to the exact same place every time, then make up a spacer to sit below the drop weight, before you secure the top nip bolt or clothes pin like mine, then every tip comes out as equal as possible.

If you use a variac you can set the heat exactly every time, otherwise its a guessing and watching game as it begins to melt and fall, you want everything set to optimum so you can work easily as possible.


----------



## jcase

Little boy blue said:


> I used a short section of aluminum tube and turned a hardwood insert and drilled an 8.00mm hole in the centre to slide over an 8.00mm post set in the base.
> I'm going to mod the drop weight on my rig for one twice the depth 3 inches long, so the weight is guided by one and a half inches before she starts to drop, this will keep it properly in line, because if it wanders ever so slightly the tips dont come out perfectly straight.
> 
> I forgot to say, the nip screw on the drop weight has a small rubber tube inserted into the top half inch which the glass tube fits exactly, this only needs the lightest nip to secrure it so it don't break the glass.



That is beyond my ability, I can work wood to a point, I can mold plastic (prototyping plastic). I need to find something off the shelf I can fashion into


----------



## Little boy blue

Use a section of K & S brass tubing to slide over a guide post made from a thick round nail and drill a wooden dowel to take the brass tube so it slides nice and there's your drop weight.


----------



## jcase

Little boy blue said:


> Use a section of K & S brass tubing to slide over a guide post made from a thick round nail and drill a wooden dowel to take the brass tube so it slides nice and there's your drop weight.


Met a beekeeper today that has a machine shop, and thinks we can figure something out. So I'll put my wood and plastic one on the shelf, and hope we can get a nice one build. Perhaps a setup that can pull a few at a time.


----------



## Little boy blue

That would be good, would be interested in how it goes.


----------



## jcase

Ok, just got gentamicin from my vet.

The solution I am going to use is 0.02g gentamicin to 100ml saline. Is this correct? I ended up with two charts, one saying 0.25g per 100ml, and one saying 0.02g from 100ml, assuming the 0.02 is the correct one?


----------



## beekuk

When I first started I used to use antibiotic in the saline, not used it for several years now, found that keeping the equipment well sterilized and it has not been needed at all.


----------



## jcase

Little boy blue said:


> My own heating coil is made from 1.00mm wire and has two twists and an ID of 6.00mm, try also 1.50mm wire, if you play about with the internal diameter of the coil you will soon see how the tips turn out differently.




Does this look acceptable for wire, 1.02mm

https://www.amazon.com/Genuine-Atom...=1497300691&sr=8-1&keywords=nichrome+18+gauge


----------



## jcase

beekuk said:


> When I first started I used to use antibiotic in the saline, not used it for several years now, found that keeping the equipment well sterilized and it has not been needed at all.


Thanks, my first two attempts didnt use an antibiotic either. However neither made if, one dying over night, the other lasting until being released then ?? gone. At the low price of the gentamicin, and the fact I have a vet willing to work with me to get it, better safe than sorry. Even if it is just a 1% survival increase, then its worth the price. I also plan to store some germplasm for a few days, so its worth it.


----------



## Little boy blue

I would give it a go, when you first heat the coil it can tend to change shape slightly, so when you have first run it, let it cool down again and re-shaape it, I found that the thinner gauge 1.00mm can easily fail if you exceed the high spot and getting it right is harder with the thinner diameters.


----------



## jcase

Alright, I think the last piece I need to order is the power supply

Thoughts on this unit?

Operating Conditions Specifications:
Weight: 4.3 lbs
Supply Voltage: AC 110V
Frequency: 60Hz
Working Temperature: -10 degrees Celsius ~ 40 degrees Celsius
Relative Humidity: less than 90 percent
Storage Conditions: -20 degrees Celsius ~ 80 degrees Celsius
Relative Humidity: less than 80 percent
Stable Voltage Specifications:
Output Voltage: 0-15V,0-1A
Voltage Stability: less than or equal to 0.01 percent + 2mV
Load Stability: less than or equal to 0.01 percent + 2mV
Ripple Noise: less than or equal to 1 MVRMS(RMS)
Temperature Coefficient: less than or equal to 300PPM/ degrees Celsius
Notices:
AC Input must be 110V
Ventilation: Radiator at the rear of the equipment should Not be Blocked out
Please don't use it in the environmental temperature exceeds 45 degrees Celsius
Please read the user's manual before use


https://www.amazon.com/Flexzion-Compact-Power-Supply-15V/dp/B0146K50LI/


----------



## Little boy blue

I dont think your going to have enough amps to heat the coil, the item you have shown is only one amp and will be working on max all the time, you would be far better going for one of these 5 amp units.

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_...efix=variac,industrial,244&crid=2OCBY6UKLUCOA


----------



## jcase

Little boy blue said:


> I dont think your going to have enough amps to heat the coil, the item you have shown is only one amp and will be working on max all the time, you would be far better going for one of these 5 amp units.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_...efix=variac,industrial,244&crid=2OCBY6UKLUCOA


thanks


----------



## teplov

Streptomycin is added 0.25 g per 100 g of Tris buffer. I'm sure gentamicin is also 0.25 g.


----------



## jcase

teplov said:


> Streptomycin is added 0.25 g per 100 g of Tris buffer. I'm sure gentamicin is also 0.25 g.


Can I get a confirmation? As this lists 0.25 per liter or 0.02 per 100ml

http://articles.extension.org/pages/28387/saline-recipe-for-queen-insemination


----------



## teplov

jcase said:


> Can I get a confirmation? As this lists 0.25 per liter or 0.02 per 100ml
> 
> http://articles.extension.org/pages/28387/saline-recipe-for-queen-insemination


Sory. I meant 0.25 grams of antibiotic per 100 ml. solution.


----------



## jcase

Using this power supply: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00O8DJ8QC/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Using this wire: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00TKRXQOG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Power supply supports 30v/5a but when connected to the wire drops to 0.9v at 5A, the coil does not get hot enough to change color/glow in any way.

Any suggestions here? Machinist will be back later this month and i'd like to be ready to integrate teh coil into the stand.


----------



## Little boy blue

What is happening is your creating resitance so you need a higher amps and volts, its like driving a large Chevy with a small engine if that makes sense.

This is my unit, http://www.ete.co.uk/product/variable-autotransformer-2-amp-bench-mounted-1ph/

With one like this your good to drive many other items up to 270 volts.


----------



## jcase

Ok, so I greatly misunderstood the power requirements.

Looking around here, I'm not finding comparable units at a comparable price. Need to hunt more.


----------



## Little boy blue

Electricity is a funny beast, but the power unit you have is ideal for many other things, I have a similar one and its really handy to have.


----------



## sebashtionh

is this one too much
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Variac-Tran...457319&hash=item2375c96bdf:g:O4AAAOSwSzRZTfKv


----------



## Little boy blue

sebashtionh said:


> is this one too much
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Variac-Tran...457319&hash=item2375c96bdf:g:O4AAAOSwSzRZTfKv


That is a good one and you will have amps in reserve, good price and it has out sockets as standard.


----------



## sebashtionh

Little boy blue said:


> That is a good one and you will have amps in reserve, good price and it has out sockets as standard.


thanks just ordered it..

where did you get the posts for your drop rig? the ones holding the heating wire?


----------



## Little boy blue

sebashtionh said:


> thanks just ordered it..
> 
> Where did you get the posts for your drop rig? the ones holding the heating wire?


The posts are from a foot length of 3/8 or 10.00mm stainless steel, I made the main posts out of it too.

There is lots of these depos in the US, one near you I would think.

https://www.metalsdepot.com/product...ge=316-stainless-steel-round&LimAcc= &aident=

As an add on, you can also use a wire called Kanthal which is a slightly better grade of resistance wire than Nicrome.

If you using the variac go for 1.50mm because it stands up to heat better than 1.00mm.


----------



## beepro

The fine sandpaper we use to sand the glass capillary tube down to a smooth finish has a count in grit. I supposed the finer the paper the 
larger is the grit count number of it. In the local store I have seen grit number in 200/330, 400, 800, 1000, and 2000. Some so fine that I cannot feel the sand of it at all. So my question is what grit number should I use for sanding the glass tip down?


----------



## JRG13

4000 should do it nicely or a quick hit with a torch after 2000.


----------



## beekuk

beekuk said:


> Danny, have you inseminated any queens yet with any of your new apparatus?


Inseminated any queens yet, Danny?


----------



## beepro

Of the many thing good about the internet these days is the conversion table.
I'm currently working how much it will take 10 ul to fill up the insemination capillary tube and syringe with the sperm. 
I have no clue how much 10 ul looks like in a 50 ul capillary tube. Maybe divide it by 5? Only if it is that simple to measure out the sperm volume. So, to get an idea I've done some searching on the net on the conversion rate. I have 2 syringes on hands now. One is a plastic 1/2 cc and the other is a glass 1 ml syringe. The 1/2 cc will be use to collect the semen on the drones. And the glass syring will be use to inseminate the queen bee with after sterilizing it. Either way, it is a good idea to have a look at how much is 10 ul converted to .01 cc, .0002028 teaspoon, and in .2 drop. Maybe to give it a little more sperm to fill in the gap a little. I've never seen what a 10 ul look like. My question is can anybody give me an idea what does 10 ul inside the 50 ul capillary look like? A pic. with marking would be nice.

Edited: "All conversions between mass and volume require the density of the substance. If you don't know the density but describe the substance, we may be able to find it for you. If you don't know weither the density or the substance, just weigh it. "

So who can give me the weight of the drone sperm at 10 ul? How many gram is that?


----------



## Juhani Lunden

beepro said:


> Of the My question is can anybody give me an idea what does 10 ul inside the 50 ul capillary look like?











On a capillary tube like in the picture the volume needed for one queen is about 8 mm long .


----------



## jcase

Juhani Lunden said:


> View attachment 35269
> 
> 
> On a capillary tube like in the picture the volume needed for one queen is about 8 mm long .


Tubes come in all sizes, I use 75ul for tips and 100ul for storage. Really need someone to calibrate them imo.


----------



## Juhani Lunden

jcase said:


> Tubes come in all sizes, I use 75ul for tips and 100ul for storage. Really need someone to calibrate them imo.


I sometimes do 10 mm sometimes 5 mm, they lay eggs equally well. I have one queen inseminated with only one drone. She has been laying all summer.


----------



## jcase

Juhani Lunden said:


> I sometimes do 10 mm sometimes 5 mm, they lay eggs equally well. I have one queen inseminated with only one drone. She has been laying all summer.


Issue with single drone, it is only good for isolating traits, that queen wont last the same as others.


----------



## Juhani Lunden

jcase said:


> Issue with single drone, it is only good for isolating traits, that queen wont last the same as others.


Yep, it is a VSH breeder from Josef Koller in Germany.

All workers have the same father, so if VSH quality is found, we can get it surely to the next generation.


----------



## beepro

The tubes I got look similar to yours whatever 1.47mm O.D. and 1.2mm I.D. means?

Yup, that is what I'm trying to do now. To establish the mite resistant bees on the Cordovan queen. It is to
get the drones from for the next generation of II queens. I now got enough Cordovan drones for one Cordovan virgin that
just emerged last night for the II process but without the II station set up yet. Bummer! Of the 2 color lines, she is a very light golden honey yellow which is the traits and color I'm selecting for. They are too gentle grooming bees! Maybe one day to test a nuc hive on top of an ant hill. If they can fight the ants I'm sure they can fight off the mites too. Good to know that a single vsh drone can be use just like what I read before establishing the vsh stock in Europe I think.
On the cm to mm conversion table, 8mm is just .8cm which is a little less than 1/2" on the measure tape. If I use 1/2" of
drone semen on the 50 ul tube that would be ok, I guess. Is that about the right amount or am I pushing it a bit too much?
So the math is .8cm = 5/16" = .3125"; 3/8" = .3750 (see pic below) and .3750 - .3125 = .0625 which is not too much off. It is almost to the 1/2" mark on the measure tape. To be on the safe side, 1/2" of sperm should be just above the 10 ul capacity using this set up. I still don't understand the entire details on the II process but keep on pushing on. Did practiced on a step on dead laying queen today. The stinger holding tweezers got too
rough on her and the stinger got snapped off a bit. Need to design a better one the next time. Getting closer now. Thanks all!



Got the picture now, 3/8" look like:


----------



## jcase

beepro said:


> Yup, that is what I'm trying to do now. To establish the mite resistant bees on the Cordovan queen. It is to
> get the drones from for the next generation of II queens. I now got enough Cordovan drones for one Cordovan virgin that
> just emerged last night for the II process but without the II station set up yet. Bummer! Of the 2 color lines, she is a very light golden honey yellow which is the traits and color I'm selecting for. They are too gentle grooming bees! Maybe one day to test a nuc hive on top of an ant hill. If they can fight the ants I'm sure they can fight off the mites too. Good to know that a single vsh drone can be use just like what I read before establishing the vsh stock in Europe I think.
> On the cm to mm conversion table, 8mm is just .8cm which is a little less than 1/2" on the measure tape. If I use 1/2" of
> drone semen on the 50 ul tube that would be ok, I guess. Is that about the right amount or am I pushing it a bit too much?
> So the math is .8cm = 5/16" = .3125"; 3/8" = .3750 (see pic below) and .3750 - .3125 = .0625 which is not too much off. It is almost to the 1/2" mark on the measure tape. To be on the safe side, 1/2" of sperm should be just above the 10 ul capacity using this set up. I still don't understand the entire details on the II process but keep on pushing on. Did practiced on a step on dead laying queen today. The stinger holding tweezers got too
> rough on her and the stinger got snapped off a bit. Need to design a better one the next time. Getting closer now. Thanks all!
> 
> 
> Got the picture now, 3/8" look like:


I dont know about a dead queen, but on the live queens the stinger is quite strong. Really you should spin up extra virgins to practice on, you can practice with saline, just write them off.


----------



## Juhani Lunden

beepro said:


> On the cm to mm conversion table, 8mm is just .8cm which is a little less than 1/2" on the measure tape. If I use 1/2" of
> drone semen on the 50 ul tube that would be ok, I guess. Is that about the right amount or am I pushing it a bit too much?


In all the tubes I have used during the years, 1/2 " may be a bit too much, but if all the sperm does not all fit in the rest comes out, nothing to worry about. 

I have very often quite small queens. Italian queens are usually much bigger than my stock.

( You keep on taking of Cordovan bees. Cordovan, as I have said before is a recessive gene, which make the bees very light leather brown in colour in a homozygous individual. It is not an economically viable beerace. One beebook in German language said the gene variant (mutant) has happend in Carnica bees, but I have seen cordovan coloured italian bees too.)


----------



## beepro

Ok, thanks for the advice. I will try out both the 3/8" and 1/2" to see depending on the
size of the queen abdomen. Yes, the Italians-Cordovan is quite large compare to the
others I've seen which will make it easier to work with. I've been practicing on the queen juice dead queens. At least to 
learn how to get used to the tools when they are dead queens. I'm using the 10 MP usb scope. It is ok though.
My issue now is that the left round hook is slipping away and got the 2nd section of her abdomen instead of the
first. What is the issue that I have and how do I make corrections so it won't slip away?
Are you using a rounded hook or a flattened hook? I can grind it down if needed be.
My second issue is pulling the abdomen to expose her for insemination. How far do I have to pull the right stinger tweezers to
extend her abdomen out? How much is too much out?

What if I connect the HDMI cable from my computer to the flat screen TV, will it create a bigger image to see the queen?
10x usb scope pics:


----------



## Juhani Lunden

I use sting hook (the right one) with a hole in it. This is very convenient, because with the left hook I need just to "brake" a little bit so that the abdomen end stays open. 

To get the syringe easily in the right position it is essential to get the right side of the abdomen little bit pulled upwards, in the same angle as the syringe is. This is easy when the hook is in the hole. 


I don´t know how to do it without a sting hook with a hole. Maybe some ovarian valve passing movements are needed? First left then right and down with the syringe tip??


----------



## beepro

Got it, thanks for the hints again. Practice makes perfect so I will try some more
elevating upward a bit on the sting hook. Wonder what does the sting hook look like?


----------



## Juhani Lunden

beepro said:


> Wonder what does the sting hook look like?











The hole is so small that if you can see it, it is too big.


----------



## teplov

0.14-0.16mm.


----------



## beepro

Is there a place to buy the sting hook? Or there is a way to make them out of what instrument?
Yes, they are so small. Now I have to think about it more. Nice ear buds, I will get some of those too.


----------



## jcase

beepro said:


> Is there a place to buy the sting hook? Or there is a way to make them out of what instrument?
> Yes, they are so small. Now I have to think about it more. Nice ear buds, I will get some of those too.


make them out of a syringe tip


----------



## beepro

With a sewing needle to make the small sting hole? I don't have such a small drill bit.


----------



## jcase

beepro said:


> With a sewing needle to make the small sting hole? I don't have such a small drill bit.


yes, clip the tip, hammer it down, file the tip perhaps, then go at it with a sewing needle or the like. To be honest, I had much better luck with forceps , perhaps because that is what i started with.


----------



## beepro

Got it.
How come some do II for the 2nd time?
How come some recommend to give the final co2 treatment after the last II?


----------



## jcase

beepro said:


> Got it.
> How come some do II for the 2nd time?
> How come some recommend to give the final co2 treatment after the last II?


Some people think that a second round of ii may mean she stores more semen.

I give the the "non ii" round of co2 day before ii, i have done it day after, i just find it easier the day before, because I can give her an extra look over before I put the effort of ii into her


----------



## teplov

I buy here. https://carnica.all.biz/kryuchki-dlya-instrumentalnoj-inseminacii-g602025 Very good quality.


----------



## beekuk

beepro said:


> Or there is a way to make them out of what instrument?


Make them from a short length of silver wire, as described with pictures earlier in this thread, very quick and easy to make.


----------



## beepro

Dups!


----------



## beepro

I have a reversed tweezers but the tip is a bit large for the stinger. Going to use a
grinder to make the tip smaller to hold on to the stinger. Will try that out first to see if it will work for me. At
the local dollar store for 4 different types in a packet they are cheap.
Two questions I have are 1) Does simply using the saline solution will be fine with the II or do I need to use
antibiotic as well? If not can I use fish antibiotic for the substitute? 2) Has anybody try to re-II a mated laying queen before? Or only the virgin can be use for II?


----------



## jcase

beepro said:


> I have a reversed tweezers but the tip is a bit large for the stinger. Going to use a
> grinder to make the tip smaller to hold on to the stinger. Will try that out first to see if it will work for me. At
> the local dollar store for 4 different types in a packet they are cheap.
> Two questions I have are 1) Does simply using the saline solution will be fine with the II or do I need to use
> antibiotic as well? If not can I use fish antibiotic for the substitute? 2) Has anybody try to re-II a mated laying queen before? Or only the virgin can be use for II?


If you are clean, and using the germaplasm right away I hear you can get away without the antibiotic. I use gentamicin, it is the go to. Only virgins can be used for ii, or RECENTLY (like a day) inseminated queens


----------



## Brandy

I know I should have walked away from this but really, fish antibiotic??? There's books on this, reference materials, classes, now there's a good one... Nicely made, make that finely made equipment... I pity the virgins under your care that will be lined up for your ..........


----------



## jcase

Brandy said:


> I know I should have walked away from this but really, fish antibiotic??? There's books on this, reference materials, classes, now there's a good one... Nicely made, make that finely made equipment... I pity the virgins under your care that will be lined up for your ..........


Use of fish antibiotics in other animals, even humans, is pretty common. It is because they are the same thing, but require no prescription (this has been changing, most require one now). I have to admit, back in the day when I had no insurance, I've used it for myself. I certainly wouldn't use it for bees, considering how easy to get and cheap gentamicin is. Any farm vet will recognize it is used for insemination, dog/cat vets all looked at me weird but when I found a farm one they said "no problem, come get it".


----------



## beepro

You're welcome to join in, Brandy. Glad you can provide the positive encouragement for me to improve on
my short coming. Yes, the II process is still new to me first time setting up the station. I'm
simply looking for antibiotic substitutes. I have never taken any fish antibiotics before as
the over the counter without prescription ones will work for me. They're not for II use though. Because this is a new 
experiment I'm asking the experienced one here until I've passed the learning curve on II. To me
without a trial run I cannot improve on my skills. In the mean time I'm using the dead queen from the
queen juice bottle to practice on. Also using dead worker bees to practice on pulling the stingers. This will minimize the casualty using live virgins as I don't want to mistreat them under my care. Someone mentioned pulling her stinger off while on the process. I will remember that not to pull too hard on her stinger. Had watched a bunch of you tube foreign vids on the II process to get an idea on the how to. So don't worry about me mistreating my virgin queens. They are in good hands!


----------



## jcase

Hit up your local farm vet, and tell them what you are doing, you can find recipes for a buffer solution, simple ones are saline and gentamicin, they can probably take care of you. Alternatively they can get you vials and you can mix your own.

But for your purposes, saline alone is probably fine, at least until you get serious (eg have had practice).

For saline, I suggest https://www.amazon.com/Teleflex-Addipak-Unit-Solutions-Count/dp/B01DZ0DYOA/

sterile, individually sealed and cheap. No opening and potentially contaminating a huge container when you just want a little. Also they are AWESOME for flushing your eyes in a pinch.


----------



## beepro

I'm still trying to perfect my set up. I fixed the left hook slip
off situation. The 10 MP usb cam is perfect without getting any eye strain.
One more fix for the reverse tweezers as it can pick up the worker stinger already. If pulling too much then the stinger came off so I now know how much to tug on. Another issue solved. Making more progress now!


Clearer bee pics:


----------



## jcase

beepro said:


> I'm still trying to perfect my set up. I fixed the left hook slip
> off situation. The 10 MP usb cam is perfect without getting any eye strain.
> One more fix for the reverse tweezers as it can pick up the worker stinger already. If pulling too much then the stinger came off so I now know how much to tug on. Another issue solved. Making more progress now!
> 
> 
> Clearer bee pics:


USB Cams are GREAT for letting other people watch you work, I have one I love it. It just leaves you open to additional distractions that a proper scope doesnt. It sucks to do ii with it. Check out these https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005C77FPY they are low cost, and work wonderfully.

On a live queen, you really have to tug on the stinger hard to pull it off, they are very strong, shouldn't be a concern at all, but my hook and forceps are mounted in place, making smaller movements easier as well.

Please keep updating with your progress.


----------



## beepro

I cannot find any local farm vet here that they are further up north. I found on ebay the antibiotic solution at 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GameFowl-Ti...986286&hash=item238a8de2d4:g:gvAAAOSwX61ZFqHe Can I use this? 
The sting hook is now completed with a reverse tweezers. I'v done the II trial using the usb scope on a dead queen
with good result. On a live queen I have to be extra careful to not injure her.


----------



## jcase

beepro said:


> I cannot find any local farm vet here that they are further up north. I found on ebay the antibiotic solution at
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/GameFowl-Ti...986286&hash=item238a8de2d4:g:gvAAAOSwX61ZFqHe Can I use this?
> The sting hook is now completed with a reverse tweezers. I'v done the II trial using the usb scope on a dead queen
> with good result. On a live queen I have to be extra careful to not injure her.


No that won't work. There is going to be a vet that does horses somewhere near you. Gentamicin is used in live stock insemination (makes sense, bees are live stock). Even big cities will have a vet that does livestock work. Also a vet that does dog insemination. Any vet could do it, but ones that do insemination or work with live stock are more understanding about this


----------



## beepro

That would be hard to find one locally as this area is specialized knowledge. The family farm would know this
process better inseminating their animals. I'm going to try the ebay solution to see if it will work or not. It is the
germs that are a concern so not a big deal.


----------



## jcase

beepro said:


> That would be hard to find one locally as this area is specialized knowledge. The family farm would know this
> process better inseminating their animals. I'm going to try the ebay solution to see if it will work or not. It is the
> germs that are a concern so not a big deal.


It is the viability of the germaplasm and health of the queen that are the concern. I would do it without anti-biotic before using that ebay one. Live stock and dog insemiantion is common, several breeds of dogs rarely mate naturally. If you watch ii videos on youtube and let it "run" and play whatever is next, you will learn this quickly in an unpleasant way when you walk back into your office.

Possible sources, in order of how i would call
http://www.mysacvet.com/veterinary-services/reproductive-consultation.html
http://lbemc.com/
http://www.capitolequine.com/


----------



## teplov

beepro said:


> That would be hard to find one locally as this area is specialized knowledge. The family farm would know this
> process better inseminating their animals. I'm going to try the ebay solution to see if it will work or not. It is the
> germs that are a concern so not a big deal.


Physiological solvent for bees http://www.apis-brausse.de/homogene-spermamischtechnik Germany.


----------



## beepro

Thanks for the concern and links. Since I already bought it might as well use it for sanitizing the 
equipment like the syringes and the capillary tubes after II. How many times can I reuse one capillary tube? Or is
it not recommended? Already bought 2 bottle of tubes. I made 4 more II tubes in one hour one of which is a 45 degree angle experiment. Would an 85 degree bent be better? Another one is a fat blunt tip tube. Just trying to see which one will work better. 
My little 5 y.o. great nephew is interested in II and beekeeping in general too. At that age he's as curious as a bee can be. So I showed him what I've learned so far about II. He like to watch the pulling of the cap. tubes because of the flame I think. His hand shook while trying to pry open the dead queen bee. Too nervous for the first time. What more can one ask for the next generation of?


Angled capillary tube too:


----------



## beepro

Thanks for the link, teplov. Unfortunately I cannot read the website as it is not
in English. How can I order if I don't understand it? I can order the gentamicin on 
ebay too. It will take 3 weeks to one month to get here. Too bad because I will need to
use them for II at the end of this week or early next week. Going to order some from ebay as well for
future use.


----------



## jcase

antibiotics are not sanitizings solutions, use bleach wipes and rubbing alcohol.

Flush used tubes with distilled water, then alcohol, and you can use them forever.


beepro said:


> Thanks for the concern and links. Since I already bought it might as well use it for sanitizing the
> equipment like the syringes and the capillary tubes after II. How many times can I reuse one capillary tube? Or is
> it not recommended? Already bought 2 bottle of tubes. I made 4 more II tubes in one hour one of which is a 45 degree angle experiment. Would an 85 degree bent be better? Another one is a fat blunt tip tube. Just trying to see which one will work better.
> My little 5 y.o. great nephew is interested in II and beekeeping in general too. At that age he's as curious as a bee can be. So I showed him what I've learned so far about II. He like to watch the pulling of the cap. tubes because of the flame I think. His hand shook while trying to pry open the dead queen bee. Too nervous for the first time. What more can one ask for the next generation of?
> 
> 
> Angled capillary tube too:


----------



## beekuk

beepro said:


> Too bad because I will need to
> use them for II at the end of this week or early next week.


 You don't really need to use antibiotic if you if your inseminating the queens reasonably soon after the semen collection, just keep everything really clean and sterile and use a microbial filter for the saline, I never use antibiotic and never have any problems with the queens due to not using it.


----------



## jcase

beekuk said:


> You don't really need to use antibiotic if you keep everything really clean and sterile and use a microbial filter for the saline, I never use antibiotic and never have any problems with the queens due to not using it.


Do you store the germplasm without any antibiotic?


----------



## beekuk

jcase said:


> Do you store the germplasm without any antibiotic?


I only use/mix the basic saline described originally by Sue Cobey...usually collect the drone semen in the morning and do the inseminating in the afternoon, or early evening, sometimes the following day, that is as long as I usually leave it, and never had any problems.

I autoclave the saline in special sealed bottles which are also inside individual autoclave bags until needed, it is then passed through a 2 micron bacterial filter before use.


----------



## jcase

beekuk said:


> I only use/mix the basic saline described originally by Sue Cobey...usually collect the drone semen in the morning and do the inseminating in the afternoon, or early evening, sometimes the following day, that is as long as I usually leave it, and never had any problems.
> 
> I autoclave the saline in special sealed bottles which are also inside individual autoclave bags until needed.


I'm using the mix she gave me as well, well the simpler one of the two she gave us. I have not done any storage longer than the time it takes to go grab the queens. As far as saline, we can get filtered sterile saline in 50ml plastic vials here (posted link above), relatively cheap and might save some time for you.


----------



## beekuk

jcase said:


> As far as saline, we can get filtered sterile saline in 50ml plastic vials here (posted link above), relatively cheap and might save some time for you.


That sounds like a very good idea as mixing the saline can be rather time consuming, been using saline I made up last year this year with no problems with the queens.
Did once try the contact lens solution on the recommendation of someone in Ireland who used it.


----------



## jcase

beekuk said:


> That sounds like a very good idea as mixing the saline can be rather time consuming, been using saline I made up last year this year with no problems with the queens.
> Did once try the contact lens solution on the recommendation of someone in Ireland who used it.


Contact solution in the US will generally have a lot of preservatives in it, dunno how it is there. You can get saline in same bottle right next to the contact solution here, but I really like the small vials. I know they are still sterile, and throwing away any left overs is only a loss of a few cents.


----------



## beepro

I still have some cap drones and 4 more cap QCs on the way.
Right now I have 2 Cordovan queens, one is 7 days old and one 4 days old. I've had virgins
went to mating flights early because of our hot triple digit weather here. By the 10th days after emergence, she
was laying working eggs already. 
My question is can 15 mature drones inseminate 2 queens? Consider how fast the virgin went to her mating flights here, can I do II on the 6 days queen along with the 10 days queen both at the same day using 15 drones semen? Not sure if 15 drones enough to provide.


----------



## jcase

beepro said:


> I still have some cap drones and 4 more cap QCs on the way.
> Right now I have 2 Cordovan queens, one is 7 days old and one 4 days old. I've had virgins
> went to mating flights early because of our hot triple digit weather here. By the 10th days after emergence, she
> was laying working eggs already.
> My question is can 15 mature drones inseminate 2 queens? Consider how fast the virgin went to her mating flights here, can I do II on the 6 days queen along with the 10 days queen both at the same day using 15 drones semen? Not sure if 15 drones enough to provide.


You CAN inseminate a queen with 1 drone, but you are going to want 8-12 ul for a good insemiantion. Expect 1 ul from a perfectly mature drone. I collect 20 mature 'feeling" drones for each queen I want to inseminate. Sometimes they are not at mature as they seem, sometimes collection just doesnt go well. First few times, I ended up going through about 40 per drone. The semen collection IS ABSOLUTELY the hard part, really you should practice that a lot before attempting ii. The ii part is the quick/easy part of it all.


----------



## Richard Cryberg

beepro said:


> That would be hard to find one locally as this area is specialized knowledge. The family farm would know this
> process better inseminating their animals. I'm going to try the ebay solution to see if it will work or not. It is the
> germs that are a concern so not a big deal.


Yes it is a big deal which antibiotic you use. Antibiotics are very toxic and could easy kill all the sperm. It is very important to use the proper antibiotic and also to use it in the proper dose or you are going to either kill sperm or not prevent bacterial growth. You would be better off with no antibiotic rather than using the wrong antibiotic.


----------



## johno

I have been busy printing for some time, I assembled the results today and will try to be ready to inseminate come spring. There is still some work required for the CO2 and I will have to make up some glass tubes.



















Johno


----------



## jcase

johno said:


> I have been busy printing for some time, I assembled the results today and will try to be ready to inseminate come spring. There is still some work required for the CO2 and I will have to make up some glass tubes.
> View attachment 36153
> View attachment 36154
> View attachment 36155
> 
> Johno


glass tubes? To make germaplasm storage devices? To make tips out of? to hold the queen? To hold the germaplasm store tube? For syringe?

Looks good, just wondering which tubes you are after, I've already sourced all the common parts (u100 and u75 pipets work best for storage and making tips imo)


----------



## beepro

Alligator clip to hold the stinger is hard to work with. A stinger tweezers might be
better than that. I like your simple set up.


----------



## Juhani Lunden

johno said:


> I have been busy printing for some time, I assembled the results today and will try to be ready to inseminate come spring. There is still some work required for the CO2 and I will have to make up some glass tubes.
> View attachment 36153
> View attachment 36154
> View attachment 36155
> 
> Johno


The alligator clip if it is to hold sting, as I presume, is in the wrong side.


----------



## teplov

johno said:


> I have been busy printing for some time, I assembled the results today and will try to be ready to inseminate come spring. There is still some work required for the CO2 and I will have to make up some glass tubes.
> View attachment 36153
> View attachment 36154
> View attachment 36155
> 
> Johno


This hose is better suited http://apexmedeu.sensitec.nl/infusion-catheter-butterfly-needle.html I also recommend syringe with glass piston https://www.ebay.com/p/1ml-Blue-Gla...ft-High-qualityLA/2217272547?iid=182725388030
professional hook for a sting order here https://carnica.all.biz/kryuchki-dlya-instrumentalnoj-inseminacii-g602025
I sincerely wish you good luck.


----------



## johno

Juhani now that I look at some insemination pics I see it is on the wrong side, but I still have some way to go before I will try this thing out. Teplov thanks for the help for materials but I can not read Ukrainian or Russian I can read Afrikaans( sort of Dutch or Flemish) also a little Zulu but that does not help me with your suppliers. I live a long way from any city thank Goodness but trying to find stuff for this type of thing is not easy so mostly rely on ebay and Amazon, I will try to locate some silver wire and make up some sting hooks although I would buy them if I could.
Johno


----------



## beepro

I bought the blue piston syringe on this link before. After it dropped off my hand onto the kitchen
floor, the piston got broken into 3 pieces. I tried to glue them back but it was useless because the
piston cannot fit into the glass syringe anymore. Too bad for the cheap stuff I think.

Now I've ordered 50 new plastic syringes and made adapters for them all. The adapters will fit and 
connect to the cap. tube into the syringe without any issue. I will never go with this blue glass piston and syringe
again. In an effort to make as much improvement on my set up as possible, now I have the biggest semen collecting syringe that I can find.


Huge syringe for collecting:


----------



## beekuk

teplov said:


> professional hook for a sting order here


 Professional hooks are also really easy to make, takes about ten minutes per hook... and costs almost nothing.


----------



## Juhani Lunden

beekuk said:


> Professional hooks are also really easy to make, takes about ten minutes per hook... and costs almost nothing.


How do you make the hole in sting hook?


----------



## beepro

The hole in the hook has to be small enough to hold the queen's stinger otherwise it
will slip off. Instead of using metal wire, I'm thinking to use hard transparent plastic for
the sting hook. This way I can see better to put the stinger in the hole. Perhaps a rigid transparent soda straw
will do? 

To make the small hole I went through 32 pieces of the sewing needles from big to small using a
hammer. The metal is just too brittle and hard for this process. I'm sure for $30 dollars you can
buy a lots of silver wires and needles to make the hook.


----------



## beekuk

Juhani Lunden said:


> How do you make the hole in sting hook?


Using a very fine/small needle.


----------



## johno

I have ordered a little silver wire and will have a go at making some sting hooks.
Johno


----------



## beepro

I have not order any silver wire yet. I still think that the transparent hook from the hard
plastic should do the trick. It will allow the operator to see the stinger better with a
clear hook. Testing out the gorilla glue trying to make one.


----------



## queeny

Where did the 3d print files come from if I may ask


----------



## The Apprentice

Here is a video of a sting hook hole being made

https://www.*****ute.com/video/BU7IRLLzvm3N/


----------



## Juhani Lunden

The Apprentice said:


> Here is a video of a sting hook hole being made
> 
> https://www.*****ute.com/video/BU7IRLLzvm3N/


Has somebody actually inseminated a queen with hooks made in the video?


----------



## The Apprentice

Juhani Lunden said:


> Has somebody actually inseminated a queen with hooks made in the video?


Or successfully made their own sting hook using the process shown?

Edit:

I forgot to mention, if you find you have made the hole a little too big, to close or fine tune the hole size, all one needs to do is gently tap the hole directly over it with a small hammer, this will close the hole for you.


----------



## teplov

Juhani Lunden said:


> Has somebody actually inseminated a queen with hooks made in the video?









Earlier it did, not reliably.


----------



## The Apprentice

Picture taken using my Leica laborlux 12 microscope, at 10 X magnification, showing no discernable taper of the sting hook using the needle punch through method, using annealed Sterling silver blade, blade actual thickness is 0.44mm, so the overall taper is only microns/millionths of a millimeter over the thickness of the blade and needle point area.

After the punching process is complete and the blade has been cleaned on its outer surfaces, the edges of the hole are returned to their square section once again, so this method is not to be dissmissed by any means, the previous drawings are ambiguous.

As they say practice makes perfect.


----------



## The Apprentice

Just found this well made unit on ebay, all stainless steel construction. I like the small size of the ball joints and how the manipulator posts stand well back off of from the mainframe itself, a well thought out system and a realistic costing.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Insemina...977209?hash=item1a3aa40439:g:gn8AAOSwVDZaAxmD


----------



## teplov

Great hook.:пальцы вверх:


----------



## The Apprentice

teplov said:


> :пальцы вверх:


Thumbs up, Большие пальцы руки вверх


----------



## The Apprentice

Great video of needle making here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0OFlrhwI0M

A KOPF machine here for a good price

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/David-KOP...231785?hash=item1a2e9da029:g:ti0AAOSwbiFZVsGR


----------



## beekuk

Another one of pulling capillary tips here, using what looks like the Schley device.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S77Gze_2Rwk


----------



## The Apprentice

Another home made unit here, big battery charger to drive it,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_ii8fS4Be0

I like the next one a lot as it does as second auto flash cut the tube after drawing/pulling, if I was going to buy a device it would be this one. 

Notice how the second device seen reheats the tip to melt it to size, as it does this the tip melts and shrinks back to the desired size, this can also be achieved by placing the needle back into the heater coil, as is seen in other makers videos.

This is why I like to draw out my own tips to a much finer point so one can do the reheating back to the desired diameter without needing to grind each one beforehand, this saves lots of time/grinding.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qv3xIMAQSmU

I built this device which works really well but its time consuming



But I prefer doing the pulling by hand these days

https://www.*****ute.com/video/EFdYODcFr62c/

By hand with an ATP 3 touch burner, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vH1Uw85tSFY

By hand using a bunsen burner, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yKHvKCatmM


----------



## The Apprentice

If anyone would like to have a go at drilling their own sting hooks here is the tool to use, the thicker shank allows a much more precise drilling action, as to a normal drill bit which will most likely bend and break during drilling.

To prevent your metal blade from moving simply sellotape it to a flat piece of wood before you begin drilling then it won't move during.

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/pcb-drill-bits/1984628/

If you don't mind waiting five weeks for delivery there are these drills from China

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-Pcs-C...hash=item235308d590:m:m7xJlCwpiRW6JBRZp_nvuEQ

Use a pin vice which will open to 1.00mm like the one below, take your time during drilling, try not to rock the drill from side to side as it cuts, IF, you find the hole is too big afterwards, you can close the hole again by using a small hammer and a suitable anvil/metal plate etc, with a well polished face and gently tap over the hole itself and this will compress the metal and close the hole again.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Micro-Dr...532496&hash=item2f0a0d4b59:g:lhoAAOSw9N1Vt6sA


----------



## beekuk

Juhani Lunden said:


> Has somebody actually inseminated a queen with hooks made in the video?


Not with the ones made in the video, but ones made of silver wire in a similar way, I use round silver wire rather than flat, as this is already the correct diameter to fit into the hook holder, also use fine 1200 wet or dry to shape the flattened tip after making the hole, I made three back in April, but only used one of them to successfully inseminate 41 queens this year, they hold the sting slightly better than the ruby hooks.

As for the Kimble chase borosilicate capillary tube, I was not happy with that, so ordered some better quality tube from Germany, which is excellent.


----------



## The Apprentice

My paticular batch of Kimble Chase Glass, I think it acted rather like soda glass than Borocillicate, maybe they got the batch mixed or something, I also prefered these ones, come sterile and are as accurate as they get.

https://www.coleparmer.co.uk/i/micr...able-glass-micropipettes-50-ul-100-pk/0795040

I have also tried the wire method, works well by first rolling the end in the jewellers mill to flatten it, then make the hole in the flattened end first, before trimming it down to width.


----------



## The Apprentice

beekuk said:


> Not with the ones made in the video, *but ones made of silver wire in a similar way*, I use round silver wire rather than flat, as this is already the correct diameter to fit into the hook holder, also use fine 1200 wet or dry to shape the flattened tip after making the hole, I made three back in April, but only used one of them to successfully inseminate 41 queens this year, they hold the sting slightly better than the ruby hooks.
> 
> As for the Kimble chase borosilicate capillary tube, I was not happy with that, so ordered some better quality tube from Germany, which is excellent.


Did you drill or pierce the metal to make the hole?.

Please would you share the German capilliary supplier with us all.

Some cheap tubes here, perfect for anyone begining to make needles, https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PK500-80...var=471492514509&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649


----------



## The Apprentice

queeny said:


> Where did the 3d print files come from if I may ask


Do you mean the ones I drew or some others, The ones in my posts are my own work, 3D CAD tech qualified way back in 2001.

I have not had anything 3D printed as yet, like this early manual prototype, sting manipulated Latshaw style.





Out of all the prototypes I made just about this time last year, this semi manual one below works the best, the X & Y parameters are so accurate once you cease adjusting it is almost impossible for the needle to wander, no clumbsy levers or parafinalia to knock accientally it incorporates two inched and threaded adjusters which are tight as a drum.

The needle is manual fed and incorporates a Harbo style tube system which can be used to collect sperm over the entire length of the main glass tube, seen in the picture.

It will actually fit into an outdoor type coat pocket, ideal for mobile work and demo's.

I am going to give this one away to a beginner soon, keep an eye out for it on my blog for further details.


----------



## The Apprentice

Here is a really neat Co2 system including built in bubbler, cheap.

All you need now is a freindly pub landlord for to get the cyclinder and get it refilled as I do.

Or get one from here, no hire charges just a deposit which you get back once you return the bottle for an exchange.

www.hobbyweld.co.uk



https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CO2-Pres...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649


----------



## beekuk

The Apprentice said:


> Did you drill or pierce the metal to make the hole?.
> 
> Please would you share the German capilliary supplier with us all.


Pierce, but only just.

Complicated story, but the capillary tubing was sent direct from Germany, by....Paul Marienfeld GmbH & Co. KG
Am Wöllerspfad 4
97922 Lauda-Königshofen
Germany.
http://www.marienfeld-superior.com/index.php/contact.html

But ordered partly via....https://www.labunlimited.co.uk/s/AL...tronic-Capillary-tube-80mm-x-Ø-1.4mm-KSPS1010

It is exactly the dimensions I required, soda glass with thicker side walls, matches perfectly with my Swienty made tips.


----------



## The Apprentice

beekuk said:


> Pierce, but only just.
> 
> Complicated story, but the capillary tubing was sent direct from Germany, by....Paul Marienfeld GmbH & Co. KG
> Am Wöllerspfad 4
> 97922 Lauda-Königshofen
> Germany.
> http://www.marienfeld-superior.com/index.php/contact.html
> 
> But ordered partly via....https://www.labunlimited.co.uk/s/AL...tronic-Capillary-tube-80mm-x-Ø-1.4mm-KSPS1010
> 
> It is exactly the dimensions I required, soda glass with thicker side walls, matches perfectly with my Swienty made tips.


Thanks Pete, its always good to have a reliable alternative, another one for the list.

I wonder if this is the same glass that David Cushman called German green glass, I remember reading something like that about five years ago when I was first looking into things, if its German it has to be good gear as the saying goes.


----------



## The Apprentice

As I like to make my own stuff to save costs, here I have found the exact same syringe seen offered at much higher prices, all you need is a stand and the saline tube and your own drawn needles and your in the pro scene.



https://www.coleparmer.com/i/gilmont-gs-1100-micrometer-syringe-0-2-ml-1-ea/0784000


----------



## Juhani Lunden

beekuk said:


> , I use round silver wire rather than flat, as this is already the correct diameter to fit into the hook holder, also use fine 1200 wet or dry to shape the flattened tip after making the hole, I made three back in April, but only used one of them to successfully inseminate 41 queens this year, they hold the sting slightly better than the ruby hooks.


:thumbsup:

what is ruby hook?


----------



## beekuk

Juhani Lunden said:


> :thumbsup:
> 
> what is ruby hook?


Sorry, Juhani, I should of written sting hook, some links about them below.

http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/rubystinghook.html

https://pcela.rs/instrumental_insemt.htm


----------



## The Apprentice

After reading into several ideas here in thread, I thought I might add a more precise explanation of terms and tools to identify how a sting is actually held in position whilst it is being manipulated.

If we take the term* Grip *we have to have something that is actually gripping, persay, holding firmly without any free play once the device has a hold of the object in question.

There are only two devices that I currently know of on the internet that actually *Grip* the sting, there may be others, One is Peter Schelly's forceps and the other my own retracing needle design, that can actually physically grab a tight hold of the sting at any given point along its taper, and be moved in any direction without it slipping from its initial grip, my own version has the most secure looped hold, which then closes down taking up any free play once retracted.

All other devices that I have seen have a fixed hole size, these actually secure the sting using* "leverage"*, IE the sting hook or blade rellies upon two fixed points of contact, or acute edges, one on the upper and the other on the lower edges of the blade in question,* "just as Teplov correctly pointed out earlier in thread with his drawings".*. These fixed hole types will only work optimumly depending on the hole size and certain position along the sting so are limited and less user freindly overall, especially when worn out.

As new designs of sting hook, re-emerge, IE, "their mechanics have been used in a similar way on other devices in the past", 

Of these devices that I find work best are those which actually close down beyond the said diameter of the sting* "at any given point along its entire length/Taper"*, these I call *Gripping types*, and the rest I class *Levering*, levers which reley upon the sting being trapped using two fixed square edges, the latter are the ones which have the most likelyhood of breaking the sting at this junction, if flexed beyond the durability of the sting itself >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> the lever type with its fixed .15 - .20 hole will only work if the two outer edges of the hole are sharp or square, as the tool wears, more and more pressure and angle will need to be increased to prevent the sting from sliding out, thus this type has a finite life span and will need replacing at some time in its future, and to me the less desirable and time consuming to manufacture, right now the closed loope/needle type and Shelly have the best hold of the sting.

What I think is needed are new true gripping types that can work for year in year out without much servicing afterwards, so the challenge is on to find new gripping types, that ease the journey of both the beginner and budding engineer, home maker of things.

Showing the two types of sting hooks, the needle version on the right is .33 mm and in the open position and will close down to infinity leaving no gap.


----------



## The Apprentice

If you want the ultimate micro injector, here she is,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSKQ78lVb6Q

Well, one can dream can't one


----------



## beekuk

The Apprentice said:


> Showing the two types of sting hooks, the needle version on the right is .33 mm and in the open position and will close down to infinity leaving no gap.


 For the needle version, I suggest a slightly smaller hole, taking down to the same thickness as a normal perforated sting hook (stings are not very long) and filing down the head of the needle much closer to the opening, the head as it is will get in the way of the insemination tip and partly obscure the vaginal orifice.
The holder would also be better if much finer near the tip and set to a fixed return setting to avoid amputating the sting, the only sting I have ever seen accidentally ripped out was by someone using forceps.
Apart from these small details, it looks good.


----------



## The Apprentice

beekuk said:


> For the needle version, I suggest a slightly smaller hole, taking down to the same thickness as a normal perforated sting hook (stings are not very long) and filing down the head of the needle much closer to the opening, the head as it is will get in the way of the insemination tip and partly obscure the vaginal orifice.
> The holder would also be better if much finer near the tip and set to a fixed return setting to avoid amputating the sting, the only sting I have ever seen accidentally ripped out was by someone using forceps.
> Apart from these small details, it looks good.


Your observations are spot on Pete, the former was the older prototype photo shown from last year, the needle I use now, seen below, is a couple of sizes smaller, we did as you said, ground down the extended tip of the needle leaving about the same size as the hole itself which on a sewing needle, is an oval hole, which makes it easier to thread the sting through than a round hole.; I also managed to shave another .30mm off of the front area of the cone, currently set at 1.25 mm.
The needle/cone setup grasps the sting at a more level posture, the wand sits pretty low down, just, below the edge of the queen holder, compared to the current bent hook model which rellies upon a higher angle to lever and trap the sting, this leaves more room to get everything into the zone.



I'm working on a couple of different hooks, one that has a central curved groove set into the very front part of the cone so the sting can span it and lay at an even lower angle, and another which has an upwards curving post to grab the sting even lower down, which will give another millimeter or so clearance, yet to try it though, if I had a couple of dead queens left I could try the angles sooner.

I need to get as much space in the zone to accomodate the new electrically operated manipulator that I am building, which I plan to have a tiny 3 meg CCTV camera mounted in line looking down at the sweet spot itself, but that is not finalised yet, this would give any student a propper birds eye view of the area which is not available with the current setups.

I really like the folks and this site because the seasoned pros are always willing to advise, which is much appreciated.

Thanks.

Edit, 

Forgot to mention the alterations we did to the queen holder, what we did was make the lower end of the queen holder slightly lower than the top edge which helps to manipulate the queen over the edge slightly, some of the earlier holders I tried had way too sharp an edge on them and rubbed against the insect, better to have a slighly larger hole than a smaller one, about 7.00mm, I'm also going to try a curved glass version next season so the queen can lay at a more comfortable angle, will have to see how it goes, and being glass you can chuck it into the autoclave.

The outside diameter of this queen holder is 11.00mm and after the flame shaping the opening tip is a tad under 7.00 with a nice and smooth or rounded edge, glass is the way to go I think.





If anyone wants the glass ones made ask for Craig, cheif glass blower at www.scientificglass.co.uk, they work out at a couple of quid each.


----------



## Juhani Lunden

The Apprentice said:


> Your observations are spot on Pete, the former was the older prototype photo shown from last year, the needle I use now, seen below, is a couple of sizes smaller, we did as you said, ground down the extended tip of the needle leaving about the same size as the hole itself which on a sewing needle, is an oval hole, which makes it easier to thread the sting through than a round hole.; I also managed to shave another .30mm off of the front area of the cone, currently set at 1.25 mm.
> 
> The needle/cone setup grasps the sting at a more level posture, the wand sits pretty low down, just, below the edge of the queen holder, compared to the current bent hook model which rellies upon a higher angle to lever and trap the sting, this leaves more room to get everything into the zone.


I think there is a reason for a sharper angle.The sting end is often inside the queens sting chamber and then it is needed to approach with the sting hook with a sharper angle. There is sometimes even need to pick it up inside the chamber. Sometimes it sticks right out. 
Is the idea of a needle/cone structure that the needle can be pulled inwards to make the grip of the needle tighter? I mean it has to be pretty tight because there is need to pull the sting upwards and slightly outwards to make the ovarian more easy to enter with the sperm tube.


----------



## The Apprentice

Juhani Lunden said:


> I think there is a reason for a sharper angle.The sting end is often inside the queens sting chamber and then it is needed to approach with the sting hook with a sharper angle. There is sometimes even need to pick it up inside the chamber. Sometimes it sticks right out.
> Is the idea of a needle/cone structure that the needle can be pulled inwards to make the grip of the needle tighter? I mean it has to be pretty tight because there is need to pull the sting upwards and slightly outwards to make the ovarian more easy to enter with the sperm tube.


Trials show that angle of the conventional hook needs to be at a certain angle and position in order of getting it to hold optimally IE, to bend/lever against the sting using the inner square edges or surfaces of the fixed hole size within the blade, otherwise it will simply slip out again, it is the very nature of a sting "tapered object" and a square edged and paralel hole that limits is overall performance, and also needs to be changed to varying angle/s as you journey towards the very tip of the sting, as you do the effectiveness of the fixed hole and open area of attack diminishes, something that our freind and seasoned expert Teplov pointed out in his earlier drawing *"using the red lines" *which pointed to the edges in question.

The idea of my cone and needle setup is orientated around a similar principle to the Shelly. mine can do similar using an extra or three points of contact and anywhere along the sting to keep a better hold of it, the eye here also closes down to infinity like the Schelly pincer action, no matter where it is placed along the sting.

The spring inside my device is what creates the holding force needed and pulls backwards against the sting and can be made more or less powerful by either stretching the spring or replacing it with a stronger one until you get the desired hold, once released and closed again.

With any tapered object the nearer to its tip the more difficult it will be with any device to keep a true hold of it, this is why I think that Mr Schelly made his tweezer lance with its pincer movement the way he did, his also closes to infinity removing any or all of the leverage that is needed with a conventional hook whilst truly grabbing a hold of the sting anywhere along its length, also the Shelly can form and flex vertically to accomodate the varying degree of taper on the sting as it closes.

The shape of the eye of the needle also lends favorably to threading and holding the sting without damaging it, like a poorly made sewing needle would and cut through a thread once it was pulled through the material being sewn if it was too sharp on the inner upper edge, the eye inside here is rounded off and already prepared, it is predominantly this edge and the edges on the front part of the cone on either side of the needle, where the gripping is done/concentrated, without having to use any leveraging, this also slightly flexes the sting in between the three edges mentioned, this phenomenon can be witnessed if you study the video I made earlier where I use .15mm soft copper wire in my demonstration.

You sometimes have to use tweezers to manipulate the sting as per normal; and because the queen is under stress from her handling and the muscles that control the sting are sometimes tensed, until she is calmed by the relaxating effects of the Co2, but even with the queen having almost lost consciousness, you can still feel resistancel if you try to rush and begin withdrawing the sting before she is properly dosciled.

My own observations have told me that, even under the narcotizing effects of the Co2, many times the muscle groups, overall, can still be more or less apathetic/sympathetic under the effects of the gas, they can still hold back from being manipulated easily, its a balancing act at the best of times to get everything done without many or all of the different traits afforementioned being present, each queen depending on how they are handled prior to insertion, especially by pure beginners will all act differently, and why my own synopsis and or answers are orientated towards the novice, which I still am, learning the finer art of AIQB.


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## AstroBee

The Apprentice said:


> As I like to make my own stuff to save costs, here I have found the exact same syringe seen offered at much higher prices, all you need is a stand and the saline tube and your own drawn needles and your in the pro scene.
> 
> 
> https://www.coleparmer.com/i/gilmont-gs-1100-micrometer-syringe-0-2-ml-1-ea/0784000



I actually paid less ($192 usd) for my large capacity syringe when I bought it directly from Dr. Schley. Besides, it was perfectly designed to fit his device and came with a known calibration.


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## The Apprentice

Yes, this is one of the cheaper outlets I have seen for ancilliaries, one annoying thing when dealing with certain specialists the price seems to sky rocket, especially in the medical field.

Did you know that many hospitals throw these types of syringes away after a single use, straight into the incinerator when many of them are fine and could be used again.


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## The Apprentice

..


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## The Apprentice

Seasons greetings all

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=242&v=DDt3u2Ev1cI


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## beekuk

And to you, Danny.


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## beekuk

Danny, would appreciate you letting us know how many queens you have inseminated and the results using your various apparatus, pictures would also be good, if the apparatus is just experimental but never been used, I will also understand and appreciate that, please just say so if that is the case, as it will make things so much more understandable and the way forward so much easier. Your friend in the south, Pete.


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## The Apprentice

beekuk said:


> Danny, would appreciate you letting us know how many queens you have inseminated and the results using your various apparatus, pictures would also be good, if the apparatus is just experimental but never been used, I will also understand and appreciate that, please just say so if that is the case, as it will make things so much more understandable and the way forward so much easier. Your friend in the south, Pete.


We had four attempts with only one going on to lay, I never did any more last year due to moving my main workshop to a bigger place; The way ahead is to move to better permanent site, still waiting to hear from the land owner to reorganise an abandoned apiary which is a jungle right now, it has two wild colonies surviving in older equipment that was left behind, it is a superb spot though with no big agri in a ten mile radius, an ideal spot surrounded by virgin woodland and ESA status, when we get sorted I will take some decent photographs of everything working.


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## The Apprentice

..


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## The Apprentice

Check out this superb site for used sterio scopes of all makes.

https://www.bidservice.com/cart/products.aspx?category=microscopes---comparators&page-number=2


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## beekuk

The Apprentice said:


> We had four attempts with only one going on to lay, I never did any more last year due to moving my main workshop to a bigger place;


Well done, Danny, practice makes perfect, hope all goes well with the new workshop, just made a few more insemination tips myself for the coming season, be good to have a phone chat again sometime soon.


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## jcase

Status update on my first year II queens (2017):

First 2 did not make it, these were done prior to any training, the rest were done after Cobey's class. I didn't expect my first dozen to survive, happy it was just the first two.

Post training stats:
*Traded/Given Away:*
1 traded to another beek - unsuccessful introduction, traded immediately after insemination.

1 was given to another beek - traded after 2 months of laying, died out with a large number of their apiary. Reasons unknown.

*Kept:*
1 injured during inspection, my fault. Was laying great prior to that. Disappeared a couple weeks after injury.
4 others as still doing well.

Laying solid patterns prior to winter!


Overall I am very happy with my 2017 success (post taking a class). Everyone I introduced began laying very well. Of the ones I kept, with the exception of the one I injured during inspection, they are all still kicking.

Advice after this experience, take Sue Cobey's class if you can.


Right now 5 out of my 18 (one from another breeder) hives are headed by II queens, I plan to raise that to 50% this year. Very happy with the II results, and the genetics lines I acquired so far. Great experience overall!


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## jcase

Finally found a nice and water proof case. Bit spendy for what I wanted at $40, but i feel safer now with my gear.


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## beekuk

Jcase, you have done really well with the inseminating during your first season of doing it, and I know it is a really great feeling when you get your first queens inseminated successfully, also like your new case for the apparatus.


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## jcase

beekuk said:


> Jcase, you have done really well with the inseminating during your first season of doing it, and I know it is a really great feeling when you get your first queens inseminated successfully, also like your new case for the apparatus.


Its even better when your first successful inseminated queens are still around the next year  Feels @#$% good.


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## jcase

The Apprentice said:


> But I prefer doing the pulling by hand these days
> 
> https://www.*****ute.com/video/EFdYODcFr62c/
> 
> By hand with an ATP 3 touch burner, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vH1Uw85tSFY
> 
> By hand using a bunsen burner, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yKHvKCatmM


So simple by hand! I dont know why I didnt think of this before. I made so many pulling prototypes this winter (none great). 

Well I'm darn good at making coils now lol, but I'm going to pick up an eraser and give this a try.


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## The Apprentice

jcase said:


> So simple by hand! I dont know why I didnt think of this before. I made so many pulling prototypes this winter (none great).
> 
> Well I'm darn good at making coils now lol, but I'm going to pick up an eraser and give this a try.


Thanks, when you try the eraser method, try using a yellow flame instead of a hotter blue one, then you get a much better visual/warning of the very moment when the tube begins to stretch out, you will have more time to react before it drops off and or separates. Also, when you heat the tube from one side only you end up with a slightly curved and oval shaped taper on the main reduction area, which I find helps when you finally insert the tip during insemination, this slightly irregular shape lends itself in different ways as to a precise ramp, the very tip is round of course.

I have also found that sizing and finishing the very tip of the needle is done much easier and quicker by leaving the tip slightly longer than the inserted wire gauge and then flame polish back towards the desired size, this way you get a much better uniformity and or accuracy when making batches.

Just for interest, and those who have been following the main title, here is a sneak preview of my new electric manipulator head, early mechanical testing has gone really well so far.







I have retained my original glass tube/needle from my proven prototype, as it is so user freindly, especially if you use the HARBO syringe system, I was going to use a games joystick for control, but have opted for the much more precise micro switch versions instead, another couple of weeks and I should be somewhere near to completion.


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## jcase

The Apprentice said:


> Thanks, when you try the eraser method, try using a yellow flame instead of a hotter blue one, then you get a much better visual of when the tube begins to stretch out and will have more time to react before it drops off and seperates.


I can't get a yellow flame out of my torch that is a point. I'm thinking of trying the erasers with the coil, the erase seems to give it a nice smooth drop, might solve my problem there.


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## The Apprentice

jcase said:


> I can't get a yellow flame out of my torch that is a point. I'm thinking of trying the erasers with the coil, the erase seems to give it a nice smooth drop, might solve my problem there.


The yellow flame is what enables a smoother/slower drop as it heats a larger area/slower, than a finer pin-pointed and hotter blue flame does, if you can, try and block one of the air inlet holes on your torch and it will starve it of oxygen, like you see when I tune my torch which does this via blocking the air inlets with a tuning ring, here is my actual torch.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Self-Ign...392584&hash=item361285636a:g:elEAAOSwax5YoeTs

But this version will also do the same job, https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Blazer-G...958263?hash=item3ac61e00f7:g:6UoAAOSwE0JY-FLx


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## jcase

The Apprentice said:


> The yellow flame is what enables a smoother/slower drop as it heats a larger area/slower, than a finer pin-pointed and hotter blue flame does, if you can, try and block one of the air inlet holes on your torch and it will starve it of oxygen, like you see when I tune my torch which does this via blocking the air inlets with a tuning ring, here is my actual torch.
> 
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Self-Ign...392584&hash=item361285636a:g:elEAAOSwax5YoeTs



I'll play a bit, when i get it on a yellow flame on mine, it starts to bent upwards. .... I make my prototype puller stands out of wood. Lets just say today has been stressful since waking up, and now my office smells like burning pine. I am not a smart man today.


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## Juhani Lunden

teplov said:


> Physiological solvent for bees http://www.apis-brausse.de/homogene-spermamischtechnik Germany.


Company to buy this "Sperma Verdünner für Bienen" is Minitube. 

https://www.minitube.com/


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## Juhani Lunden

Kari Pirhonen is making a series of machines. 

1220 € including postage to Europe (and 3 tubes for semen)

The machine is like the one in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDb50zpYWNA


You also need:
- CO2 bottle (10€ Sodastream )
- gas regulator so the CO2 stream is slow and easy to sleep the queen
- stereo microscope 270 €

http://www.villenkello.fi/shop/kauppa4/products.php?&action=show&id=1177&show=all


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## little_john

beekuk said:


> [...] just made a few more insemination tips myself for the coming season ...


Hello Pete - FWIW, I'm not really into AI/II and thus know next to Sod All about it - but just thought I'd float out an idea. If it's already been looked at and discounted, just ignore this post.

Some years ago I had a DVT and was required to self-inject with Heparin for a week or three. The syringes the Heparin came in were 1.0 ml and had a needle diameter of just 0.3 mm. 
I've just checked with the Dave Cushman site, and 0.3 mm is (or at least was considered then) the upper size limit for a tip. I was wondering perhaps if syringes might come in even smaller sizes than that ?

Just a thought ...
LJ


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## The Apprentice

I have tried experimenting with this type of needle, that an old freind and diabetic had and if your very very careful you can reduce the tip of the needle to around .25 over a couple of millimeters, cut off the angle that they are cut at, I used an insert that fit tight inside the socket and placed it in the lathe to hone it with a very fine diamond stone, but glass needles are a lot easier to make once you get the feel for it, see video below using 1.30mm glass.

https://www.*****ute.com/video/NS28O5GW4uTs/


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## msl

It been a bit, did any of the 3d printed II rigs pan out?


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## The Apprentice

msl said:


> It been a bit, did any of the 3d printed II rigs pan out?


Hi msl

I never got around to making any 3D models as the originals brass tube worked so well, but I now have access to a top end 3D machine and may get some printed after the new year.

I will keep you posted to what happens though.

Cheers for the reminder.


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## teplov

I believe that 3-d printing helps a lot in beekeeping. My equipment is almost all done on a 3-D printer. This year only I have inseminated 1500 queens. www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xjPnqzWJYU&t=63s
My son sells my equipment. https://www.ebay.com/itm/202543623609


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## The Apprentice

Hi Folks

It has been quite a while since I posted, 

Here is the latest euipment I have made in-house for making the job of insemination quick and easy, she comes in the form of a 4D manual micro manipulator.

I made this over the fall and winter season from partly recycled and new materials, she has a ration of 5 - 1 and is ultra fluid in its motion, right now I am practicing on fixed targets to get used to how it moves and the early signs are very promissing indeed, I can move in, in one motion to the target of less than half a millimeter and she stays exactly on targetwhere one stops.

I still have yet to develop the final version of the needle holding gear/magazine which will also have an LED indicated plunger mechanism for making sure the final injection movement and depth does not penetrate too far into the host.

I am also working on an all new loop type sting hook similar in design to my earlier model using the oval eye of a fine sewing needle, 

Thanks for looking

https://www.*****ute.com/video/EoEdZPfgOKFA/


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## RBRamsey

This was an excellent thread, but with all of the pictures not showing up, it has lost a lot.

Does anyone have the pictures that was used through out this thread?


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## The Apprentice

RBRamsey said:


> This was an excellent thread, but with all of the pictures not showing up, it has lost a lot.
> 
> Does anyone have the pictures that was used through out this thread?


Which pictures are you looking for?


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## The Apprentice

Very nice setup Mr T, also much cheaper than the current standard euipment which should help newcommers into the craft, keep up the good work.


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## Mazzamark

I am in the process of making/getting help in making some II equipment.

Has anyone got experience of this syringe, it looks to be the same as the Sue Cobey Harbo but cant quite make it out on the pictures. Or has anyone found a good alternative? Seems false economy to save on one of the most important parts of this system. 

https://www.coleparmer.co.uk/i/gilmont-gs-1100-micrometer-syringe-0-2-ml-1-ea/0784000

It has £40 off until tomorrow.


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## kbayture

I produce the artificial insemination device myself. from beginning to end. In the workshop. prices are very cheap. If you are interested, please contact us. both as a set and as part of the sale available.


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## kilocharlie

Welcome to Beesource kbayture! Nice work. If you can post prices in U.S. Dollars, we'd like to see them.


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## kbayture

Thanks sir. Price list. 1$=5,6 TL. Contact sir: Watsup +905308734611
E mail: [email protected]


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## JWPalmer

Kbayture, your attachments make your post an offer to sell in my opinion and therefore needs to be posted on our for sale forum. The pictures are quite blurry so the images need a higher resolution. You may post a link to a website that has photos and prices of the items you wish to sell. I hope you do because I am interested in your merchandise also.


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## kbayture

I will consider your suggestion. Now I'm sharing there. thank you


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## cpb

@Mazzamark:

Have you bought the micro despenser? I asume you took the 0.2ml?

Swienty has the same microdispenser on their Harbo syringe.

Thanks for your help.


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## teplov

hi colleagues beekeepers.
I want to introduce you to our equipment for insemination of queens. Maybe you saw him before

The equipment is made with ABS plastic and stainless steel. It consists of a main unit on which the queen's holder is placed, 2 hooks, feeding system with capillary installed.

The second block is a syringe holder with a delivery system and the syringe
Harbo Syringe of 1 ml with the metal piston.
A set is consisted of 5 capillaries.

The machine is packed in a special plastic protected case for convenient and safe transportation.
more information is available beequeeninstrument.com


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## GregB

teplov said:


> hi colleagues beekeepers.
> I want to introduce you to our equipment for insemination of queens. Maybe you saw him before
> 
> The equipment is made with ABS plastic and stainless steel. It consists of a main unit on which the queen's holder is placed, 2 hooks, feeding system with capillary installed.
> 
> The second block is a syringe holder with a delivery system and the syringe
> Harbo Syringe of 1 ml with the metal piston.
> A set is consisted of 5 capillaries.
> 
> The machine is packed in a special plastic protected case for convenient and safe transportation.
> more information is available beequeeninstrument.com
> View attachment 52249
> 
> View attachment 52251
> 
> View attachment 52253
> 
> View attachment 52255
> 
> View attachment 52257


Is this the same as the unit presented on the minute 28:00 of his video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liV5grHI3XI


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## teplov

GregV said:


> Is this the same as the unit presented on the minute 28:00 of his video?
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liV5grHI3XI


the equipment is similar to ours, the unit with the syringe is the same as the principle printers of robots.
ps on the video is not me) another beekeeper


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## msl

I am diving back into this project, but needed advice/suggestions on a scope, AM seems to keep poping up and I was eyeing this one https://www.ebay.com/itm/AmScope-7X...4244?_trksid=p2349526.m4383.l4275.c1#viTabs_0


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## Knisely

That’s a scope that I’ve also heard meets the needs of insemination work very well. The price seems pretty reasonable relative to the price of a breeder queen, too.


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## Juhani Lunden

Just make sure your insemination device fits on the microscope stand.

I have this:

http://www.villenkello.fi/shop/kauppa4/products.php?&action=show&id=1177&show=all

Enables my device to stand on my table (very small "ground clearance").


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## msl

thanks.. I had been looking at the AM verstion of it https://www.amazon.com/AmScope-SE40...argid=aud-798931705416:pla-384726217105&psc=1
but I had herd that the zoom funtion was hand to some, do you feel hampered by the fixed 10x or 20x settings?


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## Juhani Lunden

msl said:


> thanks.. I had been looking at the AM verstion of it https://www.amazon.com/AmScope-SE40...argid=aud-798931705416:pla-384726217105&psc=1
> but I had herd that the zoom funtion was hand to some, do you feel hampered by the fixed 10x or 20x settings?


No I haven´t really thought of that at all. You get used to a certain enlargement. I never use the other lenses.


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## msl

ended up getting a AM scope SM-3B of crags list for $200 today














Went with Loc-Woyke style rig as they seem popular with 3d printers, and used inoculation loop holders for the arms https://www.homesciencetools.com/pr...MI6rjFkICe6AIVQRx9Ch1yuwtTEAYYBiABEgL-sPD_BwE 

For some reason the rack and pinion gearing for the syringe holder is giveing me fits, cant figger out how to draw it right in F360, any one out there have a cad file they want to share?
I thought about ordering this STL set https://www.the-beeman.co.uk/instrumental-insemination-102-c.asp
by they won't sell a cad file, so its a bugger to adjust it to the local hardware ie 8mm to 5/16s


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## Juhani Lunden

msl said:


> Went with Loc-Woyke style rig as they seem popular with 3d printers, and used inoculation loop holders for the arms https://www.homesciencetools.com/pr...MI6rjFkICe6AIVQRx9Ch1yuwtTEAYYBiABEgL-sPD_BwE
> 
> For some reason the rack and pinion gearing for the syringe holder is giveing me fits, cant figger out how to draw it right in F360, any one out there have a cad file they want to share?


??

Loc-Woyke style rig?

Where do you need the inoculation loop holders?

F360 = ?


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## msl

the chuck of the loop holders hold the sting/ventral hooks (stock photo)








an idea I lifted from here(another Loc-Woyke style rig) https://highfieldapiary.co.uk/instrumental-insemination-equipment/ii-instrument/

Loc-Woyke 
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/f3...9.1967984337.1584334160-1727696646.1571279577
http://www.honeybeeinsemination.com/loc-instrument-.html
https://www.researchgate.net/public...tinely_used_in_commercial_production_colonies
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/327306701_Bee_Breeding_activity_in_Poland
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Instrument...383366253181?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10


F360
A program I use for CNC milling and 3D printing https://www.autodesk.com/products/f...MIiPbn2pqe6AIVnx-tBh3IeAkxEAAYASAAEgIA9vD_BwE


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## Juhani Lunden

msl said:


> the chuck of the loop holders hold the sting/ventral hooks (stock photo) [I


My "Kari Pirhonen" model has this Woyke style handle too, but what is that "loop, wire and golden looking pencil" used for? To hold the sting? Has anyone used that kind of system?


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## msl

> what is that "loop, wire and golden looking pencil" used for?


thats the inoculation loop holders
they are to hold the ventral and sting hooks. its a stock photo, the loop and wire are what they to in the real world, no II appulation. The check of the holder is just an easy to mount hooks made form wire
In this photo they are stainless steel instead of brass, but the concept is the same


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## Juhani Lunden

msl said:


> thats the inoculation loop holders
> they are to hold the ventral and sting hooks.


Ok, now I think I got it. 

So the loop and wire is not used in insemination device, only the "golden pencil looking thing" is used as base of the actual hooks (ventral and sting)


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## msl

yep, @$5 or so each it seems to solve a few problems using selfmade hooks


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## robirot

Two Years ago, we had a file on here, which contained an stl for printing a 2 part insemination device (seperate syringe and queen holder). Since nearly all pictures are gone, i can't find it anymore, does sm1 still have the files?


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## Radar

It is on either THINGIVERSE or YEGGI


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## robirot

Radar said:


> It is on either THINGIVERSE or YEGGI


Searched both, but unfortunately there is only the turkish IE device, which is a one part device, what I‘m looking for, is the two part device, where you have the syringe holder on a post and the queen holder seperate with a dorsal hook fixed to it and manipulate the stinger with hand held forceps.


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## Radar

Is this the type you are looking for but as STL for 3d printing
https://www.latshawapiaries.com/latshaw-instrument


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## msl

I don't rember any files, just pictures
maby this one ?









A bit weird that google search for Instrumental Insemination Equipment beesource comes up with many of the missing pictures

After playing with a few of the print files that are out there I am thinking of just buying


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## robirot

Yes those are from the type, just there was a 2 part version.

I have a buyed one and my first one i made from scrap with only a drill and some etched aluminum parts, which is off the flexibel insemination type device. And this technique works so much easier compared to the schley type


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## HaplozygousNut

This is a lot of great information on instrumental insemination! Too much for me to read! Do y'all use the small 0.16mm diameter needle or 0.19mm? The smaller diameter needle I read from here (https://www.researchgate.net/public...P_ON_THE_RESULTS_OF_BEE_QUEENS'_FERTILIZATION) helps with the health of the queen.


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## robirot

HaplozygousNut said:


> This is a lot of great information on instrumental insemination! Too much for me to read! Do y'all use the small 0.16mm diameter needle or 0.19mm? The smaller diameter needle I read from here (https://www.researchgate.net/public...P_ON_THE_RESULTS_OF_BEE_QUEENS'_FERTILIZATION) helps with the health of the queen.


Typicall inseminating with 0.12 and collecting sperm with 0.18 tip


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## teplov

robirot said:


> Typicall inseminating with 0.12 and collecting sperm with 0.18 tip


The essence of the article is that semen collection and insemination are performed with one capillary.
To clean the oviducts well, I mix the semen with a diluent. It works really well.


----------

