# TBH - type of cedar...



## Cooties (Mar 17, 2007)

I purchased a cedar Top Bar Nuc off the net. I paid around $50, and took it apart and used it as a template.

The wood I used was "aromatic" red cedar to buid a 26 bar TBH. I purchased 30ft of 1x12x10 for around $230. If I build another one I will use pine. Cedar looks nice when finished but I could get the same finish with a good piece of pine.


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## Scut Farkas (Jun 7, 2007)

*Cooties...*

I assume you had no problems getting a hive to live in your aromatic red cedar hive - can you confirm?  I thought the point of cedar was that it would last a long time and because of that it would be cheaper in the long run. Have you had had pine hives and cedar hives long enough to judge the value as far as longevity?

And thanks for letting me know your materials list - that helps a lot.


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## Cooties (Mar 17, 2007)

I installed a California package 2 lbs of Carnolian from Simpsons bee supply the first week of May. I have around 13 full bars so far.

Cedar will last longer then pine but if not treated it will turn a dull gray color and splinter. I perfer pine for my langstroth hives because of price and pine hive body parts are readily available.


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## buckbee (Dec 2, 2004)

Have I not read somewhere hereabouts that cedar vapours/aroma/oil may have a miticidal effect? Or did I imagine that? It would be handy if the hive material killed off varroa...


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## Scut Farkas (Jun 7, 2007)

*I did some research*

last night (found SEARCH function on this board  ) and there are a lot of posts on Cedar. None directly answer my question per se, but some here say that if you use an aromatic cedar, the bees will be fine, the mites are no different but the bad thing is - you're honey will taste like CEDAR. Not good!

I guess it's like putting wine in oak barrells. You put honey in cedar "barrels" (hives) and you get cedar flavored honey.

I went by the Home depot lumber department and saw that you can get a 4 * 8 sheet of oak veneer plywood for around $45. I think I could build the greater part of the exterior of a TBH with one sheet (if my math is right). I'm not sure if the Oak veneer means that the plywood will last any longer, but it would definitely look nicer if you stained the wood vs. painting it.


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## buckbee (Dec 2, 2004)

I would be doubtful about using ply from two points of view:

1. Unless it is marine grade (at that price, I can pretty much guarantee that it isn't), I don't think it would last a season without delaminating, and

2. I would want a lot of information about the glue that holds it together, as laminating glues can give off formaldehyde vapour, which is certainly toxic to bees.

I would stick with pine or Western Red Cedar if possible.


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## Scut Farkas (Jun 7, 2007)

*Thanks Buckbee...*

I appreciate your thoughts on the plywood. You just saved me a lot of time and effort.


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## sistone (Feb 20, 2007)

You could try cypress. Rossman makes most if not all their hives out of cypress. Not sure how to order it in quantity , but you could figure something out.


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## Church (May 31, 2007)

I have hives made from western red cedar, cypress, pine, plywood, and pumice crete and other materials including painted cardboard.

From a standpoint of longevity I would go with red cedar or cypress. Rossman's lang. hives last a lifetime.

A cheaper version that is still long lasting; pine.

A budget version; plywood; and no, it doesnt outgas and harm your bees. who told you that? I dont live in a wet region but painted plywood tbhs have never delamed for me, even 1/4 inch.

Pumice crete: well, it works if you don't want to move it.

Wax dipped or painted cardboard; haha! works great but for only 2 seasons and only good for hanging TBHs. It does work though, but mostly in warm climates.

Aromatic red cedar; I wouldnt use it based on price. 

You can build TBHs for 10 bucks or 200 bucks plus, I saw one built from Solid red oak........a real piece of furniture............it depends on your need. If you needed 100 hives I doubt you would opt for the $230 hive.

FWIW


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## kawayanan (Aug 11, 2006)

buckbee said:


> I would be doubtful about using ply from two points of view:
> 
> 1. Unless it is marine grade (at that price, I can pretty much guarantee that it isn't), I don't think it would last a season without delaminating, and
> 
> ...


1) I have had plywood in some outdoor applications that have lasted quite a few year with no problems. You do have to be careful though. I have had good luck if its painted well with a good grade exterior paint and you are particularly careful about the ends. The ends are definitely the most critical (thats where the delaminating starts). I wouldn't want to use it as roofing material, but if it is protected from the rain well, it can do just fine. I built hives with plywood, but the roof hangs over it on all sides and protects it pretty well. It's in its first year, but I'll happily bet you it makes in through a season just fine. I found a thread discussing using plywood in hive bodies, people in posts #7 and #8 say they have normal hive bodies out of plywood that are 3 and 7 years old without problems. With sloped sides and a wide overhanging roof, the plywood in my TBH should see significantly less weather than a normal Lang hive. I'll have to get back to you in a few years with my results. 

2) Here is a discussion of OSB off-gassing. Keep in mind that plywood has much, much less glue than ORB. I see lots of inner covers out of plywood, and most everyone doesn't seem to worry about them. Will plywood off-gas some formaldehyde? Probably at some level, with the most when the its new. Its obviously a choice you'll have to make, but I am not to worried about it (the bees seem fine so far). Here is what the plywood industry people have to say.

Kawayanan


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## buckbee (Dec 2, 2004)

Thanks Kawayanan,

Interesting - but I feel that relying on industry information is like putting the lunatics in charge of the asylum... I would still be concerned as a hive - esp. with clsed floor - is an enclosed space with relatively little ventilation and formaldehyde could accumulate.


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## kawayanan (Aug 11, 2006)

buckbee said:


> Thanks Kawayanan,
> 
> Interesting - but I feel that relying on industry information is like putting the lunatics in charge of the asylum... I would still be concerned as a hive - esp. with clsed floor - is an enclosed space with relatively little ventilation and formaldehyde could accumulate.



I don't put a whole lot of stock in it either, I just included it for completeness. I looked that up when I made the post. I made the decision when I made my hives based on other peoples experience posted here on BeeSource, and seeing other TBH on the web made of plywood. As I pointed out in addition, its used a lot for inner covers.

I can point to plywood that has lasted well outside, but I can't very well prove to you that its completely safe for bees though. Thats why I said it would have to be your own decision.

My hive, btw, has a screened bottom and upper entrance (should have good ventilation).

I've also seen people worry about gases and chemicals that might come off of various kinds of plastics. It still wouldn't be a reason I would choose not to use any plastic in a hive though.

Kawayanan


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