# Resorted to Powdered sugar after Oxalic Vapes.



## Tenpin (Apr 27, 2016)

Using powdered sugar to knock back the persistent varroa mites in my hives just 3 weeks after my 3 rounds of August oxalic.
Dang that was a lot of mites.


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## cervus (May 8, 2016)

Something doesn't add up. Not doubting your results, just wondering how in the world that many mites survived 3 rounds of OAV. How far apart were your OAV treatments? Did you happen to do mite drop counts after each treatment?


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## adson (Nov 25, 2009)

I had the same questions as above.
Also, was this experience unique to your flow hive ? 
you didn't share what your comparable mite data was from the other hives.

Thanks for sharing the experience


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

If my experiment work I will be mixing the burnt OACs (oxalis acid crystals) with
the powder sugar for dusting the bees. Let's see how many mites will drop!


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## Tenpin (Apr 27, 2016)

cervus said:


> Something doesn't add up. Not doubting your results, just wondering how in the world that many mites survived 3 rounds of OAV. How far apart were your OAV treatments? Did you happen to do mite drop counts after each treatment?


Cervus, my treatments were 7 days apart. 1st treatment was pre-dawn. The second was at 9:30 AM (hives are still shaded at that time so slow to wake up) and the third was pre-dawn again. 2 grams @ 2:30 on battery, another 2 mins or so left to finish vaping with the hive entrance closed another 10 minutes. Unfortunately I did not do mite drop counts after those treatments. Having done so in the Spring and seeing the mite drops then, I felt no need as I assumed the results would be similar.

What is different this go around is the presence of robber bees. Lots of them. There are about 4 beekeepers within 2 miles of my location and a feral colony just 400 feet away. I don't know how quickly mites can be reintroduced or in what numbers but the bee math doesn't add up since the mites have the same cycle as drones. That hive has _lots_ of drone comb in it as there were 3 foundationless frames in the brood boxes. The bees have been tearing open drone cells and pulling them out at a high rate.


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## Tenpin (Apr 27, 2016)

adson said:


> Also, was this experience unique to your flow hive ?
> you didn't share what your comparable mite data was from the other hives.
> 
> Thanks for sharing the experience


This was not unique to the Flow hive. The other hive I did a drop count on had a 24 hr drop of 100 - notably, that hive had much less drone comb.


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## Tenpin (Apr 27, 2016)

adson said:


> Also, was this experience unique to your flow hive ?
> you didn't share what your comparable mite data was from the other hives.
> 
> Thanks for sharing the experience


This was not unique to the Flow hive. The other hive I did a drop count on had a 24 hr drop of 100 - notably, that hive had much less drone comb.


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## cervus (May 8, 2016)

Tenpin said:


> Cervus, my treatments were 7 days apart. 1st treatment was pre-dawn. The second was at 9:30 AM (hives are still shaded at that time so slow to wake up) and the third was pre-dawn again. 2 grams @ 2:30 on battery, another 2 mins or so left to finish vaping with the hive entrance closed another 10 minutes. Unfortunately I did not do mite drop counts after those treatments. Having done so in the Spring and seeing the mite drops then, I felt no need as I assumed the results would be similar.
> 
> What is different this go around is the presence of robber bees. Lots of them. There are about 4 beekeepers within 2 miles of my location and a feral colony just 400 feet away. I don't know how quickly mites can be reintroduced or in what numbers but the bee math doesn't add up since the mites have the same cycle as drones. That hive has _lots_ of drone comb in it as there were 3 foundationless frames in the brood boxes. The bees have been tearing open drone cells and pulling them out at a high rate.


I'm with you. Your treatment schedule certainly should have covered the drone emergence. The OAV should have hammered those mites on the second treatment. That's an extraordinary amount of mites especially considering post-treatment. How long did you wait between the last OAV treatment and the powder sugar treatment? Could you have been seeing some residual OA effects combined with the powder sugar effect? Makes me want to do another mite count! I had to do 4 treatments, 7 days apart to achieve an acceptable mite drop.


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

Flow hive? Where?


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## Tenpin (Apr 27, 2016)

aunt betty said:


> Flow hive? Where?


Aunt Betty, the Flow frames aren't on the hive. Took them off after harvesting for the winter. So...this is a typical 8-frame hive at the moment.


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## Tenpin (Apr 27, 2016)

cervus said:


> How long did you wait between the last OAV treatment and the powder sugar treatment? Could you have been seeing some residual OA effects combined with the powder sugar effect?


I waited 3 weeks - I don't think it's residual OA. I thought I read somewhere that 5-7 days was about as long as any residual effect lasted. Don't quote me on that though. I'm really not sure.


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## cervus (May 8, 2016)

Agreed. After 3 weeks there should be no residual action. This is just confounding to me. The only plausible answer is the robber bees, since the treatment protocols were followed.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

I wonder if "your" bees could be robbing out other hives that mites have crippled. That's a good way for them to pick up and bring home a lot of hitch-hiking mites.


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

Mike Gillmore said:


> I wonder if "your" bees could be robbing out other hives that mites have crippled. That's a good way for them to pick up and bring home a lot of hitch-hiking mites.


And it's the right time of year for it.......


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## LeifLiberty (Sep 23, 2014)

If you feed, will it stop them from robbing?


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## mgstei1 (Jan 11, 2014)

Hit em with that acid again! Beats sugar by far.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

Feeding might help, but this time of year most bees are in robbing mode. Some colonies seem to be worse about it than others. Depending on the feeding method it might actually create a greater problem for your hive in it's ability to protect itself "against" robbers.


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## Tenpin (Apr 27, 2016)

mgstei1 said:


> Hit em with that acid again! Beats sugar by far.


Apivar is the treatment I'm using this go around.


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