# Outyard or Pollenation Contract



## Bens-Bees (Sep 18, 2008)

Where/How do you draw the line between outyards and potential pollination contracts?

What I mean by that is when someone contacts you that wants bees on their property, how do you determine whether or not to use it as an outyard, or charge them a pollination fee?


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## Countryboy (Feb 15, 2009)

How long will the bees be there? I think that is the determining factor. If the bees are going to be there permanently, it is an outyard. If you bring your hives in for the bloom, and then take your bees to another location after the bloom is over, then you are doing pollination.

You pay for an outyard by giving the landowner honey. The landowner pays you for pollination.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

If a landowner wants you to put bees on their property for pollination purposes, charge them. You are charging for putting the colony(ies) where the landowner wants them, when they want them and then you are taking them out. That's what they are paying for, Pollination Service.

If they ask you to put bees on their property for you to use as a bee yard, unless they ask for honey, don't pay them anything. They know the value of the bees and that is enough.

if you go asking for permission to place your hives on someone elses property, then pay them yard rent. Use the honey as an inticement.

I have an orchard that lets me keep the hives on location through the summer. I don't pay them any rent. They give me apples though. All of the other orchards are in and out situations. They pay me.


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## Bens-Bees (Sep 18, 2008)

So you're all saying that it really doesn't matter how big the farm is, only if the bees will have a permanent home or not, even if the farmer is getting free pollination out of it I should count that as an outyard then?

I don't know, I just feel like large farms should be looked at as potential pollination contracts rather than as outyards. But on the other hand, maybe they can allow me to sit a greater number of hives on them and having more in one spot reduces travel time and gas going between outyards, and maybe that's worth giving up a potential pollination contract for those savings. 

I don't know, I'm still conflicted about it.


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

It basically comes down to who benefits the most. If you want the location more than they want you there, and they allow you to leave the bees year round (or even for a particularly good honey flow) you would be glad to place the bees free. If it is out of the way and you can find better locations closer, and the farm asks you to place bees there it is negotiable. At that point you either need the location or you don't, either they are willing to pay for the presence of the bees or they are not. 
If they need you more than you need them, and particularly for pollination of a particular crop, a pollination fee would more likely be in order. 
Keep in mind that many people will call asking for bees, not for the pollination value but to help "save the bees". They usually expect to be paid in honey, not to be asked to pay a fee. You will learn to tell the difference with a few pointed questions.
Sheri


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## bigbearomaha (Sep 3, 2009)

While I am working more on being a 'sideline' than a full blown full time bee business, my thinking is along the lines of those who mention where is the greater benefit going.

If they only want bees for a short period of the season, I would definitely say that's a contract.

if they are willing to keep the bees there year round, some may consider that there is some trade off in having a permanent place to keep them and not have to transport them back and forth. if nothing else and foraging is mono-cultural there, it will require you to pay more attention and work in feeding, etc.. then maybe a bit of a discount in consideration of the stable location.

if there is plenty of variable foraging and it is what you might consider a 'good' spot for bees, You might call it an out yard and call it even. They get the pollination when it's needed, you have a stable location.

If they don't really want them but will allow it, then maybe a little bribery with honey may be in line.

I am just kind of 'thinking out loud' here. 

Take it as you will.

Big Bear


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## Flyer Jim (Apr 22, 2004)

If ole SgtMaj is going to charge for pollination or just for the pleasure of watching bugs fly in and out of a little box would that not make him a commercial beekeeper? I would think that it would at least make him a professional if he is receiving money for his services. I guess my question is, what makes one a commercial beekeeper?.... the number of hives, the amount of money you make or loose or what?
Jim


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## Countryboy (Feb 15, 2009)

_I guess my question is, what makes one a commercial beekeeper?.... the number of hives, the amount of money you make or loose or what?
Jim _

Usually, commercial beekeepers earn their living primarily by beekeeping.

<25 hives is considered a hobbyist.
more than 25 but less than 300 is considered a sideliner (who usually still has a day job elsewhere)
300+ (or whatever number necessary to be your full time job) is a commercial beekeeper


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

FJ, you can read the forum description for a more detailed explanation of the focus of this forum but briefly, a commercial beekeeper is narrowly defined as one making their primary income from bees (or trying to????). Of course someone with 1 colony can make money from their bees, (and that is one of the goals of even hobby beekeeping isn't it?) but that scale is outside the general scope of this forum. Those with hundreds or thousands of colonies have a different focus than those with one, a dozen or even fifty and isn't always the best person to ask a particular question to. 
I am not trying to be elitist here, just trying to get the best answers to particular questions. When I find myself giving suggestions about garden hives, of all things, something whose logistics I haven't given 10 seconds thought to, it is time to suggest finding a better source.
Sheri


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## bigbearomaha (Sep 3, 2009)

> but that scale is outside the general scope of this forum. Those with hundreds or thousands of colonies have a different focus than those with one, a dozen or even fifty and isn't always the best person to ask a particular question to.


 Iwould say your description is fair to the point of a place for 'commercial' beekeepers.

I might suggest that for those many who are on their way or working toward being sideliners, as the considerations still are not quite the same as 'true' commercial, perhaps another subforum for 'sideliners' could be opened to address those issues and questions for those seeking to make an income from working bees, but on that scale instead.

It may relieve some of the questions that don't fit the general forums but aren't of the scale of commercial either.

just an idea.

Big Bear


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

I am not sure a sideliner forum is really necessary as there are dozens (probably hundreds?) of sideliners that visit the other forums as well. Most general beekeeping "sideliner" questions fit in the Bee Forum. There can be a fine line on which forum is best to ask a particular question. It comes down to a matter of scale and focus. Wouldn't adding a sideliner forum just add to the confusion?
Many 'sideliner' questions fit just fine in the commercial forum, but many are better served in other forums. Again, the goal is to provide the best answer to the question while keeping to the primary focus of this forum. Some people tend to think that the commercials "know it all" so want their input but that is just not the case (trust me on this, lol). There are numerous hobbyists and sideliners that are very very knowledgeable about all aspects of beekeeping, including the financial aspects. Additionally they might have a broader view of beekeeping than those more closely focused on income production. Taking this thread as an example, many hobbyists and most sidleliners have expanded to outyards so might have relevant input as to how to initially acquire them on a smaller scale. When the question can be adequately answered in the Bee Forum the much broader audience there can prove valuable. Commercials visit that forum as well, remember, so you aren't excluding them from the question by asking it there.
As another example, while a commercial outfit might make candles, the best place to ask about candles is the "Products of the Hive" forum. 
Sheri


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## bigbearomaha (Sep 3, 2009)

I was just an idea. I can see you rationale.

But, speaking for myself, I always find it nice to have a bold headline that segments a topic giving people a place to start for specific information.

What this does do for me though, is give me an idea for trying things on my site.

Thanks,

Big Bear


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## 123456789 (May 24, 2009)

Where:scratch: did the rest of this thread go?


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

Moved to the Bee Forum "How do I find outyards"
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=235873
Sheri


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