# Oxalic Acid Vaporization hurts bees?



## Munson (Mar 16, 2014)

At a regional meeting the local bee inspector put out that there is proof oxalic acid will significantly reduce the life of bees so his recommendation was to limit treatments. I can find no proof that treatment causes significant reduction of bee population. Is there any accredited studies that oxalic acid vaporization treatment will significantly impact bee lifespan? 

The point was a thought on what should be the best practise for treatment: apply vaporization treatment once a week for three to four weeks both fall after removing honey and early spring in order to catch any varroa in capped brood cells.

Dave Burns put out that varroa will half the lifespan of bees and i've watched autopsy's of deal colonies from varroa.


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## smoore (Feb 1, 2012)

Not a hard find. Apidologie is a standard journal where bee related scientific articles are published. 

Negative long-term effects on bee colonies treated with oxalic acid against Varroa jacobsoni Oud.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

I think that the data bein referred to here is for dribble, not vapor.


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

I agree, I think this applies to OAD, not vaporization.

And, even then, I think some of Randy Oliver's more recent work has shown that modest repeats of OAD, not series like OAV, but more than one single treatment of dribble over the course of a year, is less harmful than previously reported. (See www.scientificbeekeeping.com for his reports.)

I don't dribble so I haven't been following this too closely, but I remember another BS member pointing this out in a comment.

I have seen no issues with OAV series, though, even as many as four or five closely spaced doses. The current recommendation is three vaporizations, seven days apart.

Enj.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

> In each treatment, colonies were treated every 7 days for *4 weeks with a 3 % sprayed oxalic acid*. Another five colonies in each season served as controls and were sprayed only with water.


http://www.apidologie.org/articles/...4/Apidologie_0044-8435_1999_30_4_ART0004.html

I've never seen recommendations anywhere to apply dribble or OA spray 4 weeks in a row. I'm not really sure what the purpose of this study was. It's like a study to prove that if I hit myself in the head with a hammer 4 times, it's worse than if I only do it 1 time.

I didn't see a link to the compete report, but my questions is ... what happened with the control colonies that had no OA applied, only misted water. Did they treat those control colonies with another mite treatment? Did they crash from mite pressure after a year with no treatments?

Gotta love the internet ... but it's frightening. People are losing the ability to filter and analyze what they read.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>At a regional meeting the local bee inspector put out that there is proof oxalic acid will significantly reduce the life of bees so his recommendation was to limit treatments.

I've only heard this about dribbling. I did not observe any problems when I experimented and did three OAV treatments a week apart. It's the microbes I was worried about...


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## Bee Arthur (Mar 21, 2015)

You should really ask that bee inspector to produce evidence for his claim. As others have mentioned, the science is showing no ill-effects from OAV treatments. Spraying and dribbling are another story, and I don't know why anyone would be using those application methods at this point.


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## BadBeeKeeper (Jan 24, 2015)

Bee Arthur said:


> You should really ask that bee inspector to produce evidence for his claim. As others have mentioned, the science is showing no ill-effects from OAV treatments. *Spraying and dribbling are another story, and I don't know why anyone would be using those application methods at this point.*


Ease, speed of application, no power required.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

I would suspect that in many cases there is an unintentional disconnect in the information being shared. The presenter is referring to OA dribble or spray, and the audience is thinking vaporization. And vice versa. Clarification might be lacking if the two are not clearly discussed as separate treatment methods, and they both end up being thrown into the same box.

There is also the possibility that someone might be personally dead set against the use of OA in general using either method, and cites negative data on the overuse of "dribble" to support their rejection of OA as a mite treatment in any form.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I think the bit advantage to dribbling (which I have never done) is that you don't have to worry about inhaling the fumes.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

I have OAV'd several (test) hives once every two weeks (sometimes more) for two years. I marked brood of all ages and followed it's emergence, I have marked queens that are STILL there. I have not seen ANY harm to bees, brood or queen during that time.....


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

That's why I have severely limited my attendance at bee meetings... too much bs and not enough substance. I learn more talking with beekeepers I respect and who are successful.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

For the sake of discussion let's say OA does have some negative side effects on bees - it probably does. The real issue is, which is worse to you - the negative effects of the treatment, or the negative effects of an untreated mite infestation? 

It's the same quandry you have when you consider taking an aspirin. Or insulin.

It's almost like the issue with pollen sub - bees raised on pollen sub apparently have shorter life spans. Even so, when I feed PS in winter I have a lot more bees in spring when I need them for splits and bringing in the honey crop. I'm ok with that trade. You might not be - which is OK with me.


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## Brent Bean (Jun 30, 2005)

American Bee Journal either the either the March or April edition had a published article, on all the methods. vaporizer method was the most effective.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Brent Bean said:


> American Bee Journal either the either the March or April edition had a published article, on all the methods. vaporizer method was the most effective.


It was Bee Culture I believe, March issue...


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## Brent Bean (Jun 30, 2005)

Ok I stand corrected Bee Culture, however according to the article vaporizing the easiest method was the most effective. I vaped all of my hives in mid December and all came thru the winter with strong clusters. I will continue to use Mite-away quick strips in July after I pull my first honey. then again in late September if mite counts are high. Then I'll hit them again in December, in Michigan brood rearing is long over. There is the danger of inhaling the vapor but with a little common sense that can be easily avoided, just like the old saying don't spit into the wind.


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