# Dead out - Small abdomens



## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

I had one of my hives just recently die out on me and I examined it today more thoroughly. It looks like they consumed most of the stores in the lower deep and then moved up the center into the upper deep and then to one side of the upper deep. There were about 4 full frames of capped stores on the opposite side that I think they got cut off from when the last cold snap hit. Hundreds of dead bees head first in the empty cells

I think the colony may have gone queenless over the winter too because there was not one capped cell, no eggs, no larvae. Two frames in the lower deep had quite a bit of pollen packed in, but no eggs in sight.

Another thing I noticed that I am puzzled about.... there seemed to bee quite a few bees with very small ( shortened ) abdomens. Is this a sign of starvation or an indication of a disease that overtook them? Also, most of the dead bees appeared to be younger bees... still hairy...not the older looking foragers. 

I don't think V-Mites were to blame, I treated all of the hives with OA Vapor early winter and the others are all in excellent shape.

Any ideas?


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## Jim Williamson (Feb 16, 2006)

Shortened abdomen is an indication of varroa. Head first in empty cells would indicate starvation. You might have a combination of varroa and starvation. Did your bees seem to congregate on the southern side of the hive with the remaining stores to the north?


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

It was just the opposite, Jim. They were clustered on the north side... however where my hives are located they get full morning sun on the east entrance side and some on the north side. By afternoon they are in the shade with some filtered sun on the south.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

The varroa mite drop counts reduced to almost none a couple of weeks after the last treatment and through the winter, but maybe the damage was already done. They were very heavily infested late fall.


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## TXBEE (Feb 23, 2006)

I would blame it on varroa, or, I have seen them just shrivel up from being dead.


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

Mike Gillmore . . .

>bees head first in the empty cells . . .

This is how a live cluster forms, the bees go into empty cells from both sides, and except for the comb mid-rib, they are able to form a continuous "ball" and transfer heat.


>not one capped cell, no eggs, no larvae . . .

When did this hive die? Maybe BEFORE they normally start brood rearing?


>very small ( shortened ) abdomens . . . and
>heavily infested late fall

Both are strong indicators of V-mite damage.


>younger bees... still hairy

These are probably the bees that hatched late fall with the heavy mite infestation present (old foragers died earlier).


Good news







. . .
It may not be too late to order new bees!


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

Mike Gillmore . . .

>bees head first in the empty cells . . .

This is how a live cluster forms, the bees go into empty cells from both sides, and except for the comb mid-rib, they are able to form a continuous "ball" and transfer heat.


>not one capped cell, no eggs, no larvae . . .

When did this hive die? Maybe BEFORE they normally start brood rearing?


>very small ( shortened ) abdomens . . . and
>heavily infested late fall

Both are strong indicators of V-mite damage.


>younger bees... still hairy

These are probably the bees that hatched late fall with the heavy mite infestation present (old foragers died earlier).


>treated all of the hives with OA Vapor early winter . . .

Two questions;
1) What kind of 'Kill" did you get?
2) Early winter is too late to "save" a hive.

Good news







. . .
It may not be too late to order new bees!


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## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

"...quite a few bees with very small ( shortened ) abdomens..." -Mike Gillmore

"Both are strong indicators of V-mite damage." -Dave W

Really? How do you measure "shortened" abdomens? After all, the abdomens of honey bees (like most other insects) aren't rigid or fixed. Membranes between the terga and sterna create flexibility. Bees can extend and contract their abdomens. Do you need to pull on the abdomen to extend it as far as possible before measuring to determine whether or not the abdomen is "shortened?"


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## Finman (Nov 5, 2004)

The dead sound normal starvation. If colony is small and it drifts some corner and weather is cold it is not able reach food. Bees dry during winter in combs and they seems short. 

Mites or not, food finished. The basic reason may be too small colony or something which weakened colony during autumn. It is usual.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

> When did this hive die? Maybe BEFORE they normally start brood rearing? >

The hive was very active on warm days up until about 2 weeks ago. We had several continuous days of nice weather in the 50's and 60's and then in one day it dropped to the 20's for a high and stayed cold for a while. That's when I noticed all activity stopped - a couple of weeks ago. By the amount of dead bees in the hive I would say the cluster must have been fairly large. If all of the dead bees were scooped up they would probably fill a couple of quart jars. Something got them pretty quick. As was mentioned before it sounds like it probably was a combination of a weakened state from Varroa damage and then getting caught in the wrong spot in a rapid drop in temperature.

> Two questions;
1) What kind of 'Kill" did you get?
2) Early winter is too late to "save" a hive. >

The week after the first treatment, January 8, there were hundreds - I quit counting. After the final treatment 3 weeks later there were just a few on the board, and the same when I checked a week later. I figured it was too late in the season, but I had to try. The other 3 hives made it just fine and appear to be very healthy. 3 out of 4 is not bad considering the circumstances.

> Really? How do you measure "shortened" abdomens? After all, the abdomens of honey bees (like most other insects) aren't rigid or fixed. Membranes between the terga and sterna create flexibility. Bees can extend and contract their abdomens. Do you need to pull on the abdomen to extend it as far as possible before measuring to determine whether or not the abdomen is "shortened?" >

Guess I'm a little slow, I don't understand the point.


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

Jon, I know just what they mean by "shortened" abdomens, I've seen it in my hives, both those that died from varroa and/or tracheal mites and some of those that are still alive. I'll try and photograph some this weekend.

George-


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

Heres is how I define "shortened" abdomens.

My dead worker bees have abs about 1/4, maybe 5/16" long. A short abdomen, to me, would be something less than 1/4" long. Maybe 3/16 or even 1/8" in rare cases.

For this discussion, short means "short", not "shriveled" like a raisin.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

Dave, that's exactly what I'm seeing here. I have not tried to measure them but just doing a visual it's very obvious something is abnormal. The abdomen are not shriveled or contracted but full, yet only 1/2 the size of what I usually see. I don't think it would be possible to stretch them to attempt a measurement because at this point they are brittle and somewhat freeze-dried.


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

Right arm Dave. Short, not shriveled.

I'm also a bit puzzled by what I'm seeing. These appear to be young, or relatively young bees and as far as I know, my hives haven't been doing a lot if any brood rearing since they shut down last September or early October. They've clearly started brood rearing now, so these bees may be newly emerged and if so, then something is not right. Perhaps they're under nourished? Any bees that emerged last fall from mite-infested cells with shrunken abdomens aren't alive today, 6+ months later. So I'm somewhat at a loss to explain this phenomena.

One bee that I was watching last week seemed to be partly paralyzed, with a shrunken (short) abdomen and possible k-wing. I'm thinking tracheal mites since these hives didn't have a huge mite load last summer, but obvious symptoms of tracheal mite infestation are not commonly discussed beyond k-wing and crawling. Tracheal mites are certainly vectors for disease, but I don't think they infest bees in the pupal stage, before they emerge.


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## Aspera (Aug 1, 2005)

What disease(s) are tracheal mites a vector for?


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

>I'm also a bit puzzled by what I'm seeing. These appear to be young, or relatively young bees . . .

Old bees, well-worn w/ bald backs and frayed wings, died long ago. Bees you are seeing now hatched under stress of Varroa in their cells, have never foraged, so they look young 'cept they aint got no butt










>partly paralyzed . . . 
>possible k-wing . . .
Sounds like tracheal mites

>(short) abdomen . . .
Sound like Varroa

Duh, HEY! maybe you've got BOTH
























TRACHEAL MITE SYMPTOMS - Like most bee problems, Acarine disease can be severe in a weak colony during high stress period of late winter or early spring (no one is sure whether mites cause the weak colony or weakness encourages the mite population) [Ref 2, p194].

There are no specific outward signs of the disease [Ref 16, p58]. Infested individuals usually behave normally and forage actively for nectar and pollen Ref 15, p137].

External signs are unreliable but include the following: [Ref 15, p137]. 
 One of the first symptoms of Acarine disease is the presence of bees in front of hive, crawling aimlessly about [[Ref 1, p183, Ref 15, p137, Ref 16, p58] lacking ability to fly [Ref 4, p151]. And/or bees climbing on stalks of grass, trying to fly, instead falling to the ground [Ref 1, p183] and they do not fly when released from an elevated position [Ref 16, p58]. 

As disease increases during late spring and early summer, number of "crawlers" increases and colony population decreases (dwindling population [Ref 15, p137]) until it dies. 

Bees stumbling around on ground near hive may be confused w/ behavior of Nosema or effects of poisoning [Ref 13, p376, Ref 16, p58]. Inability to fly, unhooked wings, and dysentery are general symptoms associated w/ many diseases. In most cases, a microscopic examination is required to make a proper diagnosis [Ref 12, p1084].

 Crawling bees may have wings partially opened as if dislocated [Ref 16, p58]. This K-wing phenomenon in which afflicted bees wings at rest are not folded horizontally backward over the abdomen, but instead angle out, w/ the fore and hind wings on each side separated, forms the letter K w/ bees body [Ref 4, p151 and Ref 12, p137]. See Ref 16, p44 for photo [DLW]. (K-wing symptom not as reliable as crawling bees in early spring issuing from colony [BC, 10/02, p20].)
 Bees abscond in early spring [Ref 15, p137] or in late fall despite ample honey stores [Ref 1, p183]. 
 Poor clustering in cold weather. If colony dies, bees may be found randomly throughout hive bodies (instead of in a cluster), usually w/ plenty of honey on hand [Ref 4, p151].
 There is a tradition associating A. woodi w/ outbreaks of acute disease (Acute Bee Paralysis and Chronic Bee Paralysis), however, T-mites do NOT cause any striking effect by enabling (these) airborne pathogens to invade the hemolymph of bees [Ref 16, p67].

COLONY LOSS
 Tracheal mites are harder on bees that are forced to remain in a tight cluster for many months than on bees that are free to fly, forage, and rear brood throughout the year [Ref 16, p53].
 Greatest losses of colonies (and individual bees) are in late winter and early spring [Ref 4, p150].
 Typically kills colonies from February through late April [Source??].
 Most colonies die in March (northern U.S.). Young bees are not produced in sufficient numbers to replace those dying because of mites [Ref 9, p314]. 
 Causes winter colony die-off [http://www.entm.purdue.edu/entomology/ext/targets/e-series/EseriesPDF/E-201.pdf]. 
 March or April - Dead or dying colonies, w/ plenty of stores but no bees [Ref 9, p314].
 Bees found randomly throughout hive w/ split clusters that appear small or dwindled [Ref 4, p151]. 
 Individual bees are believed to die because of:
1)Disruption to respiration; tracheae clogged w/ mites [Ref 12, p1113].
2)Damage to tracheae; mites bite through tracheal walls to suck the bees' hemolymph (blood), blood enters the tracheae, where it coagulates and clogs the air passage. Bee cannot absorb enough air and, unable to fly, merely crawls in front of hive. [BEEKEEPING, Melzer, 1989, p53].
3)Micro-organisms entering hemolymph through damaged tracheae [Ref 12, p1113].
4)Loss of hemolymph [Ref 12, p1113].


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

Good info Dave, once again.

>What disease(s) are tracheal mites a vector for?

Aspera, my short answer is "them's what kills the bees". I'm thinking the paralysis aspect of tracheal mite predation is from virii associated with the little suckers chewing on the bee's tracheal tubes and air sacs, crapping inside the bee, and sucking their blood. I'm not sure now if I'm making this up or read it somewhere. Certainly, by feeding on the bees the mites are providing a pathway for disease and infection.


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## Aspera (Aug 1, 2005)

Thanks George. I appreciate your frankness. I'll look it up and get back to you.


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

>I'll look it up and get back to you.

Please. I'm pretty sure I lost one hive to tracheal mites this spring and I have yet to do a full crime scene investigation, silly me, I've been waiting for the temperature to warm up.


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## MountainCamp (Apr 12, 2002)

George, the odds are if your hive had enough tracheal mites to kill it, it would have happened in the fall or early winter. Tracheal mites affect the ability to thermally regulate the hives. You would see a number of small groups of bees all over loosely clustered together.
Not a single winter cluster.


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## MountainCamp (Apr 12, 2002)

Mike, some types of bees don't get started rearing brood till they have nectar and pollen coming into the hive, Russians, NWC, etc.
As far as "shorter" or "smaller", from my thinking that could not have been that badly damaged by VM if they were still alive 4 or 5 months after emergance.
I see bees of all sizes in colonies. There are many factors that affect the size of the bee. Such as the quality of the food being feed to the larva, cell size, genetics, etc.
Clusters getting separated from stores is not uncommon and it was the factor in many of the 5% to over 40% pre-VM winter loses.
I wrap with black felt paper to try and add some solar gain to the hive this time of year. It is not foolproof, but does help with late season loses.

[ March 19, 2006, 08:06 AM: Message edited by: MountainCamp ]


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## LaRae (Apr 29, 2005)

Are there pics anywhere of what 'short abdomens' look like as compared to normal bees?


LaRae


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

>Are there pics anywhere of what 'short abdomens' look like as compared to normal bees?

Rae, if it ever warms up here.. I'll get some.


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## LaRae (Apr 29, 2005)

Thanks George!!










Rae


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## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

". . .I don't understand the point." -Mike Gillmore

Sorry, I've been away, and I'm just getting back to this thread. My point was that this may not be a symptom of anything at all. I've noticed, for instance, that when bees die from Varroa, they usually tuck their legs up close to their bodies. However, most dead insects have their legs pulled in close to their bodies, so the position of the legs is meaningless as a "symptom."

"For this discussion, short means "short", not "shriveled" like a raisin." -Dave W

Yes, I figured. However, like I wrote before, the terga and sterna (the chitinous plates that compose a bee's abdomen) and linked by membranes. Those membranes allow the abdomen to extend and contract; the sterna and terga "telescope" to some extent. Not shrivel, but shorten. Insects aren't entirely rigid.

I've seen plenty of bees with "shortened" abdomens. I've observed this shortening effect when I've simply frozen bees before doing dissections for tracheal mites, too. Somethimes freezing seems to make them contract their abdomens a bit.

If you've got a dead, flexible bee handy (not one that's all crisp and crunchy), try pushing in on the tip of the abdomen. Watch what happens with the plates of the abdomen. Watch how the abdomen "shortens." Then pull the tip of the abdomen back out again.

I'm still not sure how this could be a symptom of mites.


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

Kieck . . .

>Somethimes freezing seems to make them contract their abdomens a bit.

I think "shortened abdomens" means shorter than "a bit". 

SYMPTOMS of VARROASIS can be confused w/ other diseases or situations [Ref 15, p141].
 Uncapped cells. Spotty brood pattern and presence of diseases. Infested capped drone or worker brood can be punctured (as in Foulbrood disease) [Ref 15, p141].
 Bees discarding larvae and pupae [Ref 15, p141].
 Pale or dark reddish brown spots on otherwise white pupae [Ref 15, p141].
 Visible symptoms of Varroa damage can be evident on new-emerged bees. Newly emerged bees may be smaller than normal, have crumpled or disjointed wings, and shortened abdomens [http://www.ent.uga.edu/bees/Disorders/Varroa_mites.htm - Accessed 6/25/04].
 Disfigured, stunted adult bees, w/ deformed wings or legs or both are a sign of heavy infestation [George's PINK PAGES, Jul 1999]. PHOTO - See BC 2/06 Front Cover. 
 Rapid colony decline, reduced adult bee population, evacuation of hive by crawling bees, queen supersedure, spotty brood and abnormal brood w/ symptoms resembling European Foulbrood and Sacbrood [http://www.ent.uga.edu/bees/Disorders/Varroa_mites.htm - Accessed 6/25/04].
 Small reddish brown "speck" on bees usually found behind the head or nestled between the bee's abdominal segments. Finding mites on adult bees indicates a heavy infestation [Ref 1, p177]. If mites are moving about on a bee, they are fairly easy to detect; but once attached between segments, they are difficult to find [Ref 12, p1121].

Can I post digital photos without having a web sight or personal internet provider?


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## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

"I think "shortened abdomens" means shorter than "a bit"." -Dave W

I realize it. What I meant to write (and didn't) was, "Somethimes freezing seems to make them contract their abdomens quite a bit." By this I mean to less than 1/2 its normal length. Have you tried pushing and pulling the tip of an abdomen of a bee yet? I think you'll find that they're much more flexible than you'd first imagine.

So, really, how do you measure "shortened abdomens?" I'd suggest that you'd have to first get some ideas of proportions (such as thorax measurement to abdomen measurement), otherwise, smaller bees would naturally have "shortened" abdomens. Then, you'd have to extend each bee's abdomen to the same point (say, for instance, the point at which terga and sterna abut but do not overlap). Finally, you'd have to compare those measurements to measurement ratios. That's the whole point of morphometrics, which is really what we're dealing with here.

Otherwise, it's similar to my example of, "Bees that die because of Varroa tend to curl their legs underneath them in death." What does that really mean? And how does it differ from any other condition?


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

>Can I post digital photos without having a web sight or personal internet provider?

Email them to me Dave and I'll put them up for you.


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

George Fergusson . . .

Thank you for your offer. I may give it a try.

Hope you dont get a rash of Emails you cant handle


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## MountainCamp (Apr 12, 2002)

Dave, I read the reference you listed for the shorten abdomens. I read it a little differently. The statement is newly emerged bees may have shorten abdomens. I read this to mean that only newly emerged bees display this feature. The statement did not state that bees suffering from VM have shorten abdomens. My take is that it may be cause by the loss of fluids and limited food stores in the cell. Once the bee emerges, the fluid is replaced and the abdomen returns to normal size.


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## Finman (Nov 5, 2004)

Kieck: "I've seen plenty of bees with "shortened" abdomens. I've observed this shortening effect when I've simply frozen bees before doing dissections for tracheal mites, too. Somethimes freezing seems to make them contract their abdomens a bit."

I looked same thing. When bees fall on snow they get "Rigor Mortis". Muscles restrict.


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

Here is a very good example of why so many have a problem "getting over the hump" as newBees.

We (myself included) DO NOT KNOW what "shortened abdomen" really means







Its no wonder we "are fighting Varroa"


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## Finman (Nov 5, 2004)

what "shortened abdomen" really means = about half arse

Its no wonder we "are fighting Varroa" - jep, whole beekeeping dances nowadays around varroa.


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## George Fergusson (May 19, 2005)

Finally got around to taking a picture of a bee with a shrunken abdomen resulting from varroa infestation. The bee's thorax is bigger than the abdomen:

http://www.sweettimeapiary.com/pics/shrunken_abdomen.jpg

George-


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

Thank you George. What you have pictured is an exact reflection of what I saw in my dead out. Now I know what happened. Guess I treated too late in the season. 
It's a work in progress, ever learning.


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