# Bees and Moon Signs -- Folklore and beekeeping



## summer1052 (Oct 21, 2007)

Howdy, all.

I asked a question similar to this last year, and have decided to post again.

My Grandmama was one of those ladies who swore by planting with the "moon signs" -- astrology. She planted everything by her "almanick". With phenomenal success, I might add.

Information is still published about setting eggs with the moon, fishing, cutting trees, castrating, weaning, setting fences, etc. all by the moon.

Are any of you aware of moon sign lore as it relates to bees and their keeping? Please post it here! I, personally, have noticed there tend to be more swarms in my area about 2 days before, during, and after a full moon. Can you corroborate that? :scratch:

Note:
*I am not interested in debating the "truth" or "fallacy" of moon signs, astrology, folklore, or "science" vs. "superstition". That's for Tailgater.* :no:

If you can contribute without being discourteous, please do so. :gh:

Thanks!
*Summer*


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

Have you ever read the Foxfire series? Book 2 has a chapter on beekeeping. They talk about throwing handfuls of sand in the air when they see a flying swarm to get them to "light on a bush" for collection... Also talks about drumming swarms.

If there is folklure in Beekeeping it would be in that set of books.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

In my country, the indigenous people, the Moari, who number around 15% of the population, did most fishing and agriculture by the moon, plus some star signs. In most stationary shops you can buy a Moari fishing calendar, which tells you what species to fish for and when, right down to which time of day, it is not infallible but is accurate most of the time.

One Maori guy I knew of ran a hamburger bar and was able to reduce wastage by ordering perishables by the Maori fishing calendar, he figured out when the people were hungry, by the moon.

Not sure how any of this would apply to bees, but I'm sure it would. I've not noticed any correlation between bee behaviour and the moon, but that may be due to lack of observation.


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## Bear Creek Steve (Feb 18, 2009)

Summer,

Not exactly an answer to your question, but I drum bees and they go right into a hive. I also fish for trout according to (best time to fish based on lunar position) on my hand-held GPS which I use for hiking, and I always "limit out." I will have to be more observent of the bees and the moon phases,

Steve


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## tsmullins (Feb 17, 2011)

Bear Creek Steve said:


> Summer,
> 
> Not exactly an answer to your question, but I drum bees and they go right into a hive.


How does one learn to do drum bees? Drumming bees has always fascinated me.

Thanks
Shane


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## Bear Creek Steve (Feb 18, 2009)

Shane,

Dump bees on a tarp in front of the lower doorway and leading up to the doorway. Tap repeatedly on the side of the brood chamber with a hive tool or stick and they will march right up and enter the hive.

Steve


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## tsmullins (Feb 17, 2011)

Thanks Steve,

We will try this on our next swarm call.

Shane


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## Katharina (May 2, 2011)

I think there is always some truth to the full moon. Anything that reacts to light will be effected to some degree. Bees react to light, so I'm not surprised if it has some effect on them. Out here the coyotes get noisy when the full moon is up. That upsets my ducks in their duck house and they lay less eggs. So there is some cause and effect, in this case a negative effect. Why not with bees?


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## Gibbus (Apr 22, 2009)

For the early Greek culture, the priestesses of the moon goddess were called bees. It was thought that honey came from the moon (the hive) and the bees were the stars. 
The priestesses were called (collectively) the Melissae - for the Romans it was Mellona 
I know it's not about the phases, but that's about all I've got without cracking a book. There must be some legend of the phases and the bees in there somewhere.


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## summer1052 (Oct 21, 2007)

Very interesting responses so far! No answer to what I was looking for, but really interesting stuff! 

Oldtimer, I am not surprised to hear that the Maori have a rich history of using the moon cycles for fishing. As the tides are affected by the moon, this makes perfect sense.

I worked in a preschool for years, and believe that the full moon influences people. A friend who was in law enforcement for 30+ years has stories. My cousin, the ER nurse has stories. 

Still wondering about specific phases, and signs and bee behavior. The Foxfire series is excellent, but did not have what I was looking for -- this time.

I encourage all of you to dig up, write down, and SAVE these bits of folklore from older beeks, grandparents, etc. It can't be passed on if it's not retained.

*Summer*


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## Paul McCarty (Mar 30, 2011)

I don't see how we can deny the sun and the moon influence things. The moon causes tides, does it not? We also ride in a magnetic and gravitational field disturbed by their movements. Science is only just now learning how birds migrate using these micro-gravitational fields, and bees it is said, use these same fields for nagivation - hence they always orient to the sun even when it is night-time. So, yes, there is science backing up some of the old folklore. As far as drumming a swarm - anything is possible. The world is a stranger place than we can imagine. The rules we set are limited by our perceptions.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Just as an interesting aside, I have linked this, it's a very simple breakdown of how NZ fishing and agricultural activities were timed pre European. And still are by some.

http://www.korero.maori.nz/news/matariki/factsandfigures/lunarcalendar.html

Don't worry about the Maori language there is also English translation. And it's not explained on the web page, but Matariki is the appearance of a particular star formation that marks the Maori new year. The first new moon (i think) following Matariki is mid winter, and the day all agriculture timetables come from.


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## Magic Jesus (Jan 3, 2021)

Gibbus said:


> For the early Greek culture, the priestesses of the moon goddess were called bees. It was thought that honey came from the moon (the hive) and the bees were the stars.
> The priestesses were called (collectively) the Melissae - for the Romans it was Mellona
> I know it's not about the phases, but that's about all I've got without cracking a book. There must be some legend of the phases and the bees in there somewhere.


Yes, the Melissae of the Artemis-type cults are "honeybees". The Thriae (three bee maidens) delivered the first prophecy to Delphi, which temple was mythologically built by bees. The bee is the great example of self-sacrifice for the good of the community, males dying in when they mate, females when they sting. Life is a great tale of love and war. Bees symbolize fruitfulness and wealth, persuasion, which depends upon hope/desire.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

This is an interesting BUMP from a few years back. Not sure if it is beekeeping or Coffee Klatch material, but interesting all the same.






Melissa - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org










Thriae - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





And a more recent thread in Beesource discussing moon phases and bees. Just for fun.









Moon phase effect on hives


Does anyone know of any research done on the effect of the moon phase on hive functions such as comb building or swarming? I know the moons phase, more specifically the new and full moon have effects on some animals, regarding their breeding cycle, but I don't know if it has an effect on...




www.beesource.com


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## Fivej (Apr 4, 2016)

Bear Creek Steve said:


> Summer,
> 
> Not exactly an answer to your question, but I drum bees and they go right into a hive. I also fish for trout according to (best time to fish based on lunar position) on my hand-held GPS which I use for hiking, and I always "limit out." I will have to be more observent of the bees and the moon phases,
> 
> Steve


Is there an app for fishing by the moon? Ugh, just saw this one is old too. There needs to be a delete edit. Is there one I am missing ? J


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Aww J, I don't know why MJ resurrected this thread, there is a double entendre there, but I put BUMP in in big 'ol capital letters in my post to let folks know it was old. Bear Creek Steve is still active so the question was not out of place.

If you click on the three dots in the upper right hand corner, delete should be an option.


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## Fivej (Apr 4, 2016)

Ha ha! I don't know why he resurrected the thread. He works in mysterious ways. I missed your BUMP JW. When I go to the three dots, its gives me an edit option, but no delete option. Do I just backspace the whole post? J


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Fivej said:


> Ha ha! I don't know why he resurrected the thread. He works in mysterious ways. I missed your BUMP JW. When I go to the three dots, its gives me an edit option, but no delete option. Do I just backspace the whole post? J


 After you select edit you can select all the contents with your mouse, then hit cut. Then go down and hit save.


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## DanielD (Jul 21, 2012)

The bible says, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years; and let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth".
I would say they were created for the purpose of marking times for man, beast and even plants. It doesn't surprise me at all that bees, fish, deer and plants are governed to a certain degree in their activities by the moon. The sun governs everything to a great degree, and the moon governs to a lesser degree.
That said, I also think some activities "according to the moon" are probably not the case, so I am not saying all the moon phase practices have an effect. I knew an old guy who swore that if he had his hair cut in the wrong moon phase it grew back to fast.


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

I can concur on Moon phases and fishing and deer hunting.
Some places even sell calendars with "feeding" "resting" etc on the dates.

As to its effect on bee keeping, if we have accurate records of when we graft , mate , place ripe cells, and also accurate records of acceptance and such we could work to create a data base with empirical data from many keepers, and the success rates. perhaps some person would like to collect this data and offer it to others.

I have had 100% success on intro of queens on some dates, and as low as 60 % on others, so did the moon effect this , I do not know, can it, I would think yes.
We have a "swarm" date / state thread area, perhaps some one could put the swarm counts on a moon calendar to see if there are "clusters" of data. these "swarm date clusters" may offer some enlightenment on when the bees make their own queens.

Only Idea I could add is to contact the "Farmers Almanac " creation folks and ask them to add in the beekeeping dates and see what they say. Maybe they have someone who can offer some date selections.

GG


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

A quick peruse of the Site I found has the following info, for eggs to hatch, with chickens on a 21 day cycle.
so back up 5 days for queens to hatch (16 day cycle). so some one can give this a shot and let us know.......









The Best Days To Set Eggs


When are what are the "Best Days to Set Eggs" in 2022? We explain.




www.farmersalmanac.com





here is the table.
Based on this formula, here are the best days to set eggs in 2020:


*Month*DaysJanuary6-8, 16, 17February3, 4, 12-14March11, 12April7, 8May4-6, 13, 14June1, 2, 9, 10, 29July7, 8August3, 4, 30, 31September8, 9, 27, 28October5-7, 25


As I understand this was set up for "days to hatch" Not sure if in the way of things an egg is an egg and the (egg hatch on day 3) is the date or the queen hatch on day 16 is.


*Best Days Explained…*
According to Farmers’ Almanac’s long-standing proprietary formula, when the moon is in the appropriate phase and place in the zodiac, it’s widely believed that activities will be more fruitful or lead to improved results. *The period between the new and full moon (first and second quarters) is considered as the best time to perform tasks that require strength, fertility and growth.* The period between the full and new moon (third and fourth quarters) is best for harvesting, slowing growth, etc. Consideration is also given to the relationship the moon has with the 12 ruling signs of the zodiac.

Also see:
January 2021

1st – 4th
A barren time. Best for killing weeds, briars, poison ivy, and other plant pests. Clear wood lots and fencerows.
5th – 6th
A favorable time for sowing grains, hay, and forage crops. Plant flowers. Favorable days for planting root crops.
7th – 8th
Start seedbeds. Good days for transplanting. Plant carrots, turnips, onions, beets, Irish potatoes, other root crops in the South. Also good for leafy vegetables.
9th – 10th
Do no planting.
11th – 12th
Good planting days for root crops where climate permits.
*13th – 14th
A good time to kill plant pests or do plowing. Poor for planting.*
15th – 17th
Extra good for peppers, tomatoes, peas and other vine crops. Fine for planting any aboveground crop where the climate permits.
18th – 19th
Barren days, do no planting.
20th – 22nd
Fine for planting beans, peppers, cucumbers, melons, and other aboveground crops where climate is suitable.
23rd – 24th
Poor days for planting, seeds tend to rot in ground.
25th – 26th
Plant seedbeds and flower gardens. Best planting days for aboveground crops, especially peas, beans, cucumbers, and squash where climate is suitable.
*27th – 31st
A barren time. Best for killing weeds, briars, poison ivy, and other plant pests*. Clear wood lots and fencerows.
May also be some treatment dates to try....


So there you have a start on the beekeeping calendar, good luck.

GG


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## Tigger19687 (Dec 27, 2014)

Lol, there is no best day to set eggs. They hatch at 21 days from when layed and sat upon.

That list for January above would not work here in New England


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

so one of the editors did reply
hopefully someone has the interest to pursue

GG




*Patrick Travers <[email protected]>*
11:43 AM (16 minutes ago)
to me

We actually don’t have a formula for bee keeping, interesting though and I’ve forwarded it to my editor.
Patrick


*Patrick Travers, TAS, CIP*
Farmers' Almanac Specialist
P.O. Box 1609 // 70 Mt. Hope Ave
Lewiston, ME 04241
*Tel:* (207) 755-2292
*Be the Business They Remember:*
*FarmersAlmanac.com*


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

Tigger19687 said:


> Lol, there is no best day to set eggs. They hatch at 21 days from when layed and sat upon.
> 
> That list for January above would not work here in New England


Tiger,

the hatch day is the day they go for as some days are better due to the moon and the stars, they have done a 21 day adjustment for the chickens.

so we would ether do a 3 day for "hatch" or a 16 day for "emerge"
I would think someone has a bunch of swarm issue dates to look at.
Swarms leave "after" the QCs are sealed AND when the weather permits so one would need to sift the tea leaves a bit But there could be some correlation, to cell starts, which grafters and splitters could try to tune to.

GG


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Fascination with the phases of the moon is lunacy. Unless you are a sailor of course!


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## DanielD (Jul 21, 2012)

I don't know that I would consider it the moon phases, but the moon's position at a given time of day. The phases and the position happen to be the same each time. Crofter, the moon has a dramatic effect on the tides, right?


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

crofter said:


> Fascination with the phases of the moon is lunacy. Unless you are a sailor of course!


Eclipsed only by rare total darkness

GG


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Gravitational effects of the moon are entirely predictable and explainable. Changing day length influences are clearly observable in many plant an animal species. They can be and are manipulated artificially to advantage.

I draw the line though at timing my haircuts to the moon phase or believing in water well witching or divining.

From my observations it is the waving of tree limbs that causes the wind to blow!


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

crofter said:


> Gravitational effects of the moon are entirely predictable and explainable. Changing day length influences are clearly observable in many plant an animal species. They can be and are manipulated artificially to advantage.
> 
> I draw the line though at timing my haircuts to the moon phase or believing in water well witching or divining.
> 
> From my observations it is the waving of tree limbs that causes the wind to blow!


As long as someone can "show me" I draw no lines.
My mere lack of belief or understanding is insufficient to take it off the table.

there is really a lot of lost arts. to 95 % of the people beekeeping is one of them...


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Gray Goose said:


> As long as someone can "show me" I draw no lines.
> My mere lack of belief or understanding is insufficient to take it off the table.
> 
> there is really a lot of lost arts. to 95 % of the people beekeeping is one of them...


I thought that one might draw you out. I worked off and on for a general contractor and we used to put in quite a few water wells. Some customers used to insist on having their own water witches do their locates. Occasionally they seemed to find some water but they were not as good as my lab retriever; she was golden!


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

crofter said:


> I thought that one might draw you out. I worked off and on for a general contractor and we used to put in quite a few water wells. Some customers used to insist on having their own water witches do their locates. Occasionally they seemed to find some water but they were not as good as my lab retriever; she was golden!


My dad knew an "old guy" that was 100% able to find water.
I asked him to show me, he tried, but it became apparent he could do, but not teach, or I was a non capable student.
not sure 6th sense or some innate ability, but I have seen it work but as of now still am not able to repeat it. I felt I was trainable so IMO not every one has the ability, So I remain partially convinced on the water witching.

When the student is ready a teacher will appear.
Stands to reason that animal lines that are still here can find water/food.

IMO bees have the same ability, in the same space some hive have pollen coming in some do not, etc.
We may refer to that as locally adapted... However the local non adapted, I would call expired or fed..

GG


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Chinese medicine seems to work when the results are studied. Yet the model for Chinese medicine makes no logical sense to me. "All models are wrong, but some are useful" --George E.P. Box 

The model for modern chemistry that finally allowed us to get past Alchemy:

Law of conservation of mass
Law of the indestructibility of matter
Law of the immutability of elements

The model allowed us to do amazing things in chemistry. But then Madame Curie had to prove them all wrong...

So I don't know if planting by the moon and such works. The model doesn't make sense to me. But my Grandpa did it and was a much more successful gardener than I am. But that could just be that he was a good gardener... Or it could be that even if the model is flawed that it is useful...


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