# Is this normal?



## The haunted chicken (May 30, 2012)

My husband and I are new to beekeeping, installing our first bees into 2 Warre hives on April 8th. They both filled the top box in about 2 weeks and moved down to the lower box. They filled the lower boxes about half way within another week or so. We added a third box to the bottom and noticed both top boxes were completely capped (as far as we could see anyway). Last week they started hanging down in large clusters in the lowest (3rd) boxes. The middle box is still about halfway filled in on one hive and just about completely filled in the other hive. However I noticed they have uncapped and drained the top box. I thought they would be stocking up this time of year, not draining. Is this normal or something to worry about?

Also, our hives are at a friends property in a location he chose, we were happy to use what ever was offered. They do not get early morning sun, nor evening sun. But a good amount throughout the day. They seem to be doing well and are very active so we weren't too concerned. We recently were offered a new location a block away in full sun. Should we move them or leave them be? They seem happy. 

Thank you!

Edited to add: My husband thinks we ought to add a 4th box since they are hanging down in the 3rd. Any thoughts?


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## Ben Franklin (May 3, 2011)

By Capped what are you referring, Honey or Brood?? Brood will be a darker color, honey caps at almost white.
If it is capped brood that is normal for them to be uncapped. This happens after the larva emerges. If it is honey that is now uncapped, I would feed them.


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## DarkWolf (Feb 20, 2013)

Ben is correct. The first top boxes would have been full of brood first. Now that they hatched out, they will be moving down with their brood and they will start filling the top box with nectar.


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## The haunted chicken (May 30, 2012)

The comb attached to the viewing windows had capped honey. Very pale honey. They were going threw 2 quarts of syrup a day and then stopped once they started finding their own food source. All the comb attached to the windows is empty on both hives now. Should we start feeding again?

Thank you for such fast responses =)


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## stan.vick (Dec 19, 2010)

The haunted chicken said:


> View attachment 6463
> 
> 
> The comb attached to the viewing windows had capped honey. Very pale honey. They were going threw 2 quarts of syrup a day and then stopped once they started finding their own food source. All the comb attached to the windows is empty on both hives now. Should we start feeding again?
> ...


 You can try a small amount of syrup, see if they will take it. I suspect they won't since they have found a nectar source. As for moving to full sun, I would.


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## kendal.l (Jun 28, 2013)

any chance the hive might be too hot and the comb was melting/leaking and the bees moved the honey?

it's a long shot, but one might read that the hive takes full sun at noon. it gets hot enough here to melt comb—watching an old hive do just that without bees to keep it cooled. just thought i would throw that out.


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## The haunted chicken (May 30, 2012)

Thank you for the response. We found some mold on the quilt box canvas (a couple tiny spots) and moved the hives out of the shady area and into full sun last week. They seem to be doing better and are re-filling the comb.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

When there are clusters hanging down but they won't build comb, there is either not much nectar being collected, or the hive is going to swarm. Or both.


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## The haunted chicken (May 30, 2012)

Thank you for the response. Since moving them to full sun one hive is thriving. There's a ton of activity and the comb in the top box is full of honey again. And they're building comb in the lower boxes. The other hive has much less action and very little honey. We'll have to do some investigating to see if they're queen-less. Perhaps it has already swarmed and they're making a new queen?


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## DrDwilliams (Aug 10, 2013)

How did/has it turned out?


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## The haunted chicken (May 30, 2012)

DrDwilliams said:


> How did/has it turned out?


Thank you so much for asking. The hive that looked like it had swarmed is HUGE now. However we noticed all the honey was gone from both hives again (from what we could see in the windows). We began feeding with exterior feeders with out much improvement. I happened to stop by one day and saw that some very aggressive black bees were robbing from the feeders not letting our bees in. We switched to the front bottle feeders and the black bees have not been back. They are storing honey again and building comb as well. Other than some cross comb that we decided to leave, things are looking much better. They seem to be storing more honey in the cross comb than in the top box so we don't want to mess with it this late in the season and risk damaging their stores. It's hard to see in these pictures but there is quite a bit of capped honey away from the windows now.

Hive one (middle box)








Hive one (top box)








Hive two top box








New feeders.








We hope to switch to interior feeders and add robbing screens soon to eliminate all robbing. We just need to do some more reading up on how to build the interior feeders. Thanks again!


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## DrDwilliams (Aug 10, 2013)

I built a nice two quart jar interior feeder - top mount - this spring. It does require an empty box on top between attic and cover cloth. I cut two holes the size of quart jar rings in a thin piece of plywood and nailed/glued 3/8" strips all the way around. I inserted the jars into their respective holes and place the feeder over the a flap I cut in the cover cloth.

The advantage is that one can remove just the roof and attic and refill feeder without much trouble. 

Pics here:


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## The haunted chicken (May 30, 2012)

DrDwilliams said:


> I built a nice two quart jar interior feeder - top mount - this spring. It does require an empty box on top between attic and cover cloth. I cut two holes the size of quart jar rings in a thin piece of plywood and nailed/glued 3/8" strips all the way around. I inserted the jars into their respective holes and place the feeder over the a flap I cut in the cover cloth.
> 
> The advantage is that one can remove just the roof and attic and refill feeder without much trouble.
> 
> ...


Yes, yes! This is exactly what we need!!! Thank you for the pics. We have extra boxes so we just need to get a 3" hole saw tonight. Thank you!!


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## AkDan (Apr 13, 2012)

another feeder to look at is one of fat beemans feeders.....its a hive top box with an aluminum pan in side so it doesn't leak. I built them for both my warre's and they worked well. I did have to angle the pan slightly so I didn't leave syrup in there, they consistently drained them dry. He calls it the no drown feeder. I put the quilt and roof on top of the feeder. I can get ya a pic if you want. Don goes over his feeders pretty good here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lx-pCxdM2NU


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## The haunted chicken (May 30, 2012)

AkDan said:


> another feeder to look at is one of fat beemans feeders.....its a hive top box with an aluminum pan in side so it doesn't leak. I built them for both my warre's and they worked well. I did have to angle the pan slightly so I didn't leave syrup in there, they consistently drained them dry. He calls it the no drown feeder. I put the quilt and roof on top of the feeder. I can get ya a pic if you want. Don goes over his feeders pretty good here.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lx-pCxdM2NU


Great video. I wish he had a close up of how the bees get to the syrup. I think for now we'll go with the style you showed. We can build and set it up easily as soon as we get a free day to do it. Thanks again.


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## AkDan (Apr 13, 2012)

If you check out the build thread I did you can see the screened ramp. 

I used 1/4 ply for a bottom and cut a hole in one end for them to come up as wide as my ramp. Framed the sides in and front face. 

I had a hole on the underside of one of the ramps where the screen was attatched so I have it ripped apart. I can get pics easy enough It's a pretty crude build but other than the gap it worked great. The bees found there way back in easy enough. The 2nd one was perfect no stragglers.

If u try this feeder think about what you plan on using for a dish before you build. I built one for a tbh and ended up squashing the alum pan behind the ramp. The milk jug is much easier than alum. 

This year they built some comb in the ramp that was my only other issue.


If u try the other feeder you can do comb in a jar. Put an empty on top let them build and cap it. Looks pretty cool attached and capped filled with honey.


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## The haunted chicken (May 30, 2012)

AkDan said:


> If you check out the build thread I did you can see the screened ramp.


Sorry to be a pest, but my husband and I can't figure out how to find your build thread. :kn:

Edited to add: Are there pictures of Warre internal feeders anywhere on this site? I'm wondering about the canvas cloth that's on top of my top box (over the bars). If I remove my quilt box and add an empty box for my feeder (on top of the cloth) wont the cloth be hanging over the edges from under the new box? lol, clear as mud?


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## AkDan (Apr 13, 2012)

Here's a pic of my build, and the FBM style of feeder. You can see the ramps they get to the pans with. In Dons videos you should see how they access this through a hole in the bottom. 

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?280731-warre-build


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## The haunted chicken (May 30, 2012)

AkDan said:


> Here's a pic of my build, and the FBM style of feeder. You can see the ramps they get to the pans with. In Dons videos you should see how they access this through a hole in the bottom.
> 
> http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?280731-warre-build


We went with the fast build. I have a few questions I will ask in a new thread (since it's a new topic) in hopes of helping others with feeder questions. Thanks for all your help.


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## DrDwilliams (Aug 10, 2013)

The haunted chicken said:


> Sorry to be a pest, but my husband and I can't figure out how to find your build thread. :kn:
> 
> Edited to add: Are there pictures of Warre internal feeders anywhere on this site? I'm wondering about the canvas cloth that's on top of my top box (over the bars). If I remove my quilt box and add an empty box for my feeder (on top of the cloth) wont the cloth be hanging over the edges from under the new box? lol, clear as mud?


Yes, the canvas cloth is in between the top box and the box holding the feeder - otherwise the bees are hanging from the quilt box cover and thinking about hanging comb there. So if you put on a box to hold your feeder, there will be some hanging out - I cut mine pretty close though and it didn't seem to bother. Some people have mentioned putting wire mesh between the two boxes and setting the feeder atop that. I wondered if that defeated the purpose of slowing down the movement of air, so I found cutting a small rectangle on three sides and folding the cloth back to work fine - then I just folded it back down over the frames when removing the feeder and feed box.

DW


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## The haunted chicken (May 30, 2012)

DrDwilliams said:


> Yes, the canvas cloth is in between the top box and the box holding the feeder - otherwise the bees are hanging from the quilt box cover and thinking about hanging comb there. So if you put on a box to hold your feeder, there will be some hanging out - I cut mine pretty close though and it didn't seem to bother. Some people have mentioned putting wire mesh between the two boxes and setting the feeder atop that. I wondered if that defeated the purpose of slowing down the movement of air, so I found cutting a small rectangle on three sides and folding the cloth back to work fine - then I just folded it back down over the frames when removing the feeder and feed box.
> 
> DW


So you just used a regular feeder with a section of the cloth pulled back for access? That sounds so easy. I worried the bees would bee angry when I opened up to refill so left window screening between, But I'm not sure they can get to the feeders threw it. (photo's on a new thread) Hmmmmm, may have to rethink this..


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## DrDwilliams (Aug 10, 2013)

The haunted chicken said:


> So you just used a regular feeder with a section of the cloth pulled back for access? That sounds so easy. I worried the bees would bee angry when I opened up to refill so left window screening between, But I'm not sure they can get to the feeders threw it. (photo's on a new thread) Hmmmmm, may have to rethink this..


Yes, I used the feeder that I put the images up for - with two jars set into a closed 3/8" deep rectangular box. I have not experienced them angry at this top feeder. I suspect at this location in the hive, they are young house bees - not guards - and primarily interested in shuttling feed. I shake bees off the feeder lids (outside of the box), refill feeders, close everything back up and am done.

When I stopped feeding, I just folded the flap down, took off the top box and put the quilt box back down on the top cloth. 

Warre talks about bees chewing on the top cloth. I made mine of muslin. They kept a couple of holes open in the edges of the little flap, but haven't done any damage to the bottom of the quilt box.

The thing I worried about with the two jar feeder was that they could sure empty it fast and I was afraid of them getting syrup bound as they worked at building new comb, etc. So once the flowers were out in force in the spring, I quit feeding.


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