# Anyone use Bee Weaver queens



## Bud Dingler (Feb 8, 2008)

*pretty straight forward*

africanized bees have a mite resistance. 

bee weaver open mate their queens in an area saturated with africanized. 

end of story. you make the call. 

The only scientifically proven European honeybee lines that have resistance are the Russian and VSH. Why not go with them?


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## MABee (Jun 18, 2007)

*VSH breeder*

Thanks. I tried a few Russians. Where could you recommend I get some VSH queens from?


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

mr dingler sezs:
bee weaver open mate their queens in an area saturated with africanized. 

tecumseh:
a bit of an overstatement. my experience says no... my numbers say no.

you might go thru the old for sale section here and find a number of folks that were producing vsh crosses.


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## MABee (Jun 18, 2007)

Tecumseh, how would you rank their queens?


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## cow pollinater (Dec 5, 2007)

I've bought queens from them in the past and I would have this year but they sold out before I was able to get them. What I have bought in the past are some of the best bees that I've had but they seem to range from average to very defensive. I haven't had any that I would call gentle. They do seem to handle the mites a little better both in terms of less mites and thriving even with mites. I will buy from them in the future but they won't get to head the hives in my backyard that the kids are around.


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## Jim Stevens (Jan 15, 2007)

*I use Weaver Queens.*

I have several of B. Weavers Buckfast.

Yes the area has africanized Bees.

The Weavers work VERY hard at controling matting yards.
My experience with them...

Temperment will very, based on several things, but you know this.
Time of year, time of day, nector flow.
cloudy days not the best.

Sometimes the bees in one hive will run a little more than others.

They will build up fast in spring, maby not as fast as Italian...
Good comb builders.

I live in wet country, wanted somthing that would work well here in Washington.
they will fly on cool days say 51*f +-.

Made and stored lots of Honey.
Over winter well, didn't burn through stores.
made some splits this past spring.
I don't use a Smoker evert time I inspect and I live to write about it.

you might listen to Tecumseh, he's just north of Navasota
and has experience in this neck of the woods.


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## Grant (Jun 12, 2004)

I bought B. Weaver's queens many years ago before I started raising my own queens. I found the resulting bees to be vigorous, hard working, great honey producers and easy to work with. Customer service was excellent, queens shipped when promised. The queens cost a little more than other suppliers but I thought they were worth it. If I were buying queens, I'd gladly consider B. Weaver again without any reservation.

Grant
Jackson, MO


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

mabee ask:
Tecumseh, how would you rank their queens?

tecumseh:
first as perhaps you recognize I am about 20 miles directly north of the weaver's home base in navastoa texas. I know the priniciples well enough that we may not call each other friends, but we do share information from time to time. 

as others have suggested there are a lot of variables. I cannot say I have a world of 'samples' to make a comparison... but I would suggest that any number of casual observation, over a fairly long period of time, suggest that bweaver is focused on providing a quality product. almost exclusively I have used bweaver 'itialian' (all star)... so all those other fancy dan mixes I certainly could not (and would not) toss out an opinion. some of their product options I became disinterested in directly because bweaver suggest that 'this or that' option was a bit defensive. they have never minded sharing what they know... which says quite a bit. 

in marketing terms bweaver might be described as a market leader. product price plus their decision to go without chemical application for varroa mites should suggest this directly. I would hope that some folks might appreciate the sheer nurve required to go chemical free in regards to the varroa problem for anyone dependent on bees for their livelyhood... with a 100+ years of family history associated with bees and most espeically queen rearing this in itself should speak VOLUMES.

over this past season I have gone to some expense to have my own stock tested (most but not exclusively DERIVED from bweaver stock). in this fairly large sample about 10 percent showed some degree of africanization (actually on the high side of the scale so they would accurately be described as european honeybees with moderate africanization). none of these + testig samples were directly obtained from bweaver. each and every sample that did prove to the + for africanization where cells reared by myself and mated in the fall of the year. this latter point hopefully speaks as loudly to you as it does to me....

hope this 'explanation' helps....


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## mlewis48 (Nov 24, 2007)

I used 6 of them this past year. They are good queens, the only thing that I can say bad about them is they are a litte hotter than I would like for them to be. We have had a gentleman in our area that use his queens for years, he makes all of his nucs with them. So the west end of our county is saturated with Buckfast bees. The only reason that I use them is if I need one in a pinch, he has a few available. With some luck, I will raise my own,this year. 
Marc


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## Jeffrey Todd (Mar 17, 2006)

>none of these + testig samples were directly obtained from bweaver. each and every sample that did prove to the + for africanization where cells reared by myself and mated in the fall of the year. this latter point hopefully speaks as loudly to you as it does to me....

So, tec, are you saying that you have reared queens in the spring and those DO NOT have africanization while those reared in the fall do? How many queens in each season are in your sample? Valuable information - thanks very much!

Jeffrey


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

Jeffrey:
I should say Jeffrey that I was curious and I wanted to know... so I tested about 20 percent of my total population. I then throughly inspected 'the problems' to determine origin. Number of queens reared in either season is not a huge number, but I do rear more queen in the spring than in the fall.

The seasonal variation is just as you seem to understand. I think that are some good reasons why this may be so.

best to you...


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## wfarler (Jul 9, 2003)

five years of experience with their queens. I haven't treated in 5 years, their queens manage the mites just fine without treatment.


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## Gene Weitzel (Dec 6, 2005)

The only product I bought from them was their SMR (BeeSMaRt) queens, which they no longer sell separately as they have integrated that product into their All American line. I still have several hives headed by offspring of the original SMR queens I bought from them in which I keep plenty of drone comb as an attempt to saturate the area with SMR drones. They still produce honey pretty well and even several generations later are not aggressive and are similar in temperament to the hives I have that are headed by queens raised further north (mostly from Velbert Williams out of Heavener, OK). IMO, B Weaver's pricing is a little too high to use them in routine splits, but I will not hesitate to buy a few of them from time to time in an effort to add diversity to my genetics.


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

Bud Dingler said:


> africanized bees have a mite resistance.
> 
> bee weaver open mate their queens in an area saturated with africanized.
> 
> ...


Yet another unfounded bash of a southern queen raiser. Anybody else see a pattern?


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## DRUR (May 24, 2009)

Ross said:


> Yet another unfounded bash of a southern queen raiser. Anybody else see a pattern?


Yep, and it is tiring.

Bought a BeeWeaver Queen earlier this year (around May as I can recall), and she became my most productive queen. Just made a split from this colony and tried to order another of their queens to make said split, but they were sold out until October. They are a little more aggressive than my Minn. Hyg. queens, but also more productive. No mites in 24 hr. drop (small cells). One MHQ (on small cells) had nine mites in 24 hr. drop and my other MHQ (nonregressed large cells) had 46 mites in 24 hr. drop.

I read an article not long ago that said that Weavers have 8,000 commercial colonies. Imagine the pool you can draw from for high honey production/survivor bees with that many colonies.


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## Hambone (Mar 17, 2008)

> Yet another unfounded bash of a southern queen raiser. Anybody else see a pattern?


That's pretty much what I read all the time.  I love my S. Texas bees. The ones from Weaver and Tecumseh (sp).


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## Hambone (Mar 17, 2008)

> Just made a split from this colony and tried to order another of their queens to make said split, but they were sold out until October.


Why don't you split them and let them raise their own? I am trying this on three splits right now.


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## Beaver Dam (May 27, 2008)

I've bought them for the past two years from both Weavers and been very happy. It seems to me that the Weavers educate their girls before they allow them to date. They don't date RIFF-RAFF.:no: They have to be in by dark.


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## DRUR (May 24, 2009)

Derek said:


> Why don't you split them and let them raise their own? I am trying this on three splits right now.


Normally would, but don't want to loose the 30+ days of brood production, because I intend to split again. Started this year with 2 colonies, now have 8 and hope to split again to as many as 14 going into the winter.


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## Hambone (Mar 17, 2008)

Your gowing fast Danny. :thumbsup:


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## beeman (May 27, 2009)

A few years ago we bought 200 queens from them in late April/ early May as our queen cell supplier was done producing by the time we were finishing making splits. They were a mix of the 3 main varieties they sell and we thought it seemed like a good way to add diversity into gene pool also. I would say only 25% of the queens took but that could mainly be do to the fact that they were put in the latest splits of the year and not ideal conditions. That summer one could hardly tell the difference between the surviving BWeaver's and the run of the mill hives made up with queen cells so I guess I would rather pay for a cheap cell than an expensive mated queen.


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## beyondthesidewalks (Dec 1, 2007)

Ross said:


> Yet another unfounded bash of a southern queen raiser. Anybody else see a pattern?


Seems like a steady stream of northern beeks are not letting any opportunity to bash southern bees go by. It is tiring.

When I last bought bees I bought packages and queens from R. Weaver. There's a reason that Brother Adam chose the Weaver family to sell his stock in the US. These folks are very good bee breeders and producers. I have sat in the office with Risa, the lady that answers the phones, while we awaited the arrival of my packages from the field. They are very personable people and their bees are very good producers. Richard Weaver, himself, has handed me my new packages of bees. These are good people and I hate to see them get bashed like this. I haven't been down to their place in years, well a decade now, as I don't have a need to purchase queens or bees. If I did have a need to purchase packages or queens, I would buy them from Richard or his brother. There's a reason why these folks sell out of bees and queens every year. Demand in high because the product is excellent.


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## DRUR (May 24, 2009)

beyondthesidewalks said:


> Seems like a steady stream of northern beeks are not letting any opportunity to bash southern bees go by. It is tiring.QUOTE]
> 
> Be careful about throwing everyone in the bad apple barrel. It is the sqeaky wheel that gets the most attention. Also, there are also legitimate complaints, for instance those that have purchased southern queens exhibiting Africanized traits. Although, granted statements that BeeWeaver open breeds its queens in an area 'saturated' with Africanized drones is outlandish.
> 
> ...


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## bnatural (Aug 10, 2008)

I hope nobody thought I was trying to bash them. As I said, I used them a lot in the late 90's (only three hives at the time), requeening every year, then stopped, when I had a 'hot' year. Then, tried them again last year with good results. Unfortunately, when I went into the hives last week, intending to pull the queens to move into nucs, I found the one hive had already superceded and the other was queenless. Don't know what happened, but the original queens are gone. The one that superceded WAS the colony that stung the you-know-what out of me earlier this year, so maybe they were queenless at the time, or I just picked a bad-hair day to open them up.

When I say those early hives were hot, I don't mean anything like those Lusby videos from Arizona. I just mean unpleasant to work. Maybe just the luck of the draw, maybe I screwed them up, I don't know.

Anyway, as I have learned from this group, raising your own queens is the best way (if you do it right, I'm sure) to get bees optimally adapted for your location and climate. So, this year was my first attempt at learning that process. I am mixing in genetics from lots of sources, and I'm sure those Buckfast drones have been doing their thing. The next few years should prove interesting.

Bill


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## Claressa (Oct 1, 2009)

First of all, I spent my first eleven years on the shores of Lake Michigan and my next eleven in North Alabama, so I'm thoroughly bipartisan. I'm glad to have found this thread, because I was thinking of requeening one of my 2010 hives with a BeeWeaver as an experiment. I'm only a 2nd year beek, but my best queen last year was the one that superseded and mated with feral stock around July. I'm in Atlanta and I'm sure I benefit from the swarms thrown by all the excellent queen/nuc/package producers here, AL, SC, etc. This thread has convinced me to give it a go with the Weavers.

By the way, in the BeeWeaver FAQs under "Is the Beeweaver Africanized" they admit that they probably are, to some extent, but that they take temperament into account when selecting breeding queens. They also offer a "mean-ness" guarantee and state that "the number of queens they have to replace is lower each year." That, plus the excellent customer service everyone cites, seems like a no-brainer to me. 

I'll keep y'all (or youse guys, if you prefer) updated.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

I've purchased several hundred queens from Weavers over the past 2 decades. Spoken to Risa dozens of times. What's that got to do with buying potentially africanized bees? Search my posts you'll find I've been an ardent supporter. When's the last time a queen was there from Buckfast Abby? I find it somewhat incredible you think someone sounding the voice of responsibiltiy for avoiding bees which the breeder admits are africanized somehow is a north south issue.

My suggestion before anyone decides to buy potentially Aficanized stock from anyone is to contact your Priest, Lawyer, bee inspector and neighbors in that order.

Are you saying you advocate the spread of Africanized Genes?

OK folks we don't have enough issues in this industry, let's buy Africanized bees because the folks selling them are nice or because someone handed you a package 10 years ago! Geesh


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## Claressa (Oct 1, 2009)

Dear Joel,

Yes, I guess I am advocating the spread of Africanized bees. IF their temperaments can be modulated to an acceptable level and IF they constitute a significant improvement to the breed. They are documented to be very mite resistant, after all. Unfortunately, that hygienic trait seems to be linked to general aggression. Many note that MHIs and Russians are likewise aggressive. However, those '70s 'Swarm' type movies were grossly exaggerated. From all accounts, the Brazilians love AHBs. Where is the truth? From what I've read, they just take different management techniques. For a human analogy to undesirable traits being kept in an organism due to overweening environmental selective pressure: heterozygotic sickle cell anemia confers resistance to malaria. Genetically speaking, Nature decides whether the bad outweighs the good for the continuation of the haplotype.

As for the north/south thing, that was tongue-in-cheek from the previous posts. I wanted to show that I have no inherent bias.


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## Jeffzhear (Dec 2, 2006)

Claressa said:


> "Dear Joel, Yes, I guess I am advocating the spread of Africanized bees.... From all accounts, the Brazilians love AHBs..."


Do the Brazilians have a choice? Or, have the Africanized Honeybees wiped out the European Honeybees in Brazil? If it's a choice between nothing or Africanized, I suppose I might "love" (tongue in cheek) the Africanized honeybees...if I had no choice.

Just curious....


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## Claressa (Oct 1, 2009)

From what I have read, in scholarly journals listed on ncbi, the Brazilians _*prefer *_the AHBs as being more tolerant of tropical conditions. They take different management techniques from 'pure' European honeybees, but can be equally if not more prolific, considering the continuous nectar flow.Translate some articles from south of the equator and you'll see, they have the opportunity to saturate their commercial yards with pure Europeans but choose not to. 

And if it is any way unclear, I am a 'supporter' of the Weaver clan insomuch as I intend to get a queen from them this year.

Someone needs to come up with a specific sarcasm font so this sort of misunderstanding is null. I don't think we're arguing.


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## valleyman (Nov 24, 2009)

valleyman said:


> Claressa said:
> 
> 
> > Dear Joel,
> ...


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## DRUR (May 24, 2009)

Joel said:


> I've purchased several hundred queens from Weavers over the past 2 decades.


When was the last time you bought from them and what were the queens like? I purchased in May and have been working them lately without gloves/hat or veil, but the weather is a little cooler and they are not flying as much. They are not what I would call gentle, but neither are they vicious or overly aggressive. 



Joel said:


> What's that got to do with buying potentially africanized bees?


Because of the migratory nature of beekeeping today almost any queen you purchase might be "buying potentially africanized bees". Don't you reckon the Weavers also migrate part of their 8,000 colonies up north. And aren't their so-called Ahb drones breeding queens in that area? What about the Northern beeks who winter down here in Texas. Aren't they exposing their queens to Ahb influence. How about some common sense here?



Joel said:


> Are you saying you advocate the spread of Africanized Genes?


Read what others who are familiar with BeeWeaver are saying about their managing their mating yards to protect againt AHB. No one is advocating that.



Joel said:


> OK folks we don't have enough issues in this industry, let's buy Africanized bees because the folks selling them are nice or because someone handed you a package 10 years ago! Geesh


No, they have good survivor queens from a pool of 8,000 colonies to select from with minimal chance of being AHB. Does that mean the potential isn't there? NO.
Thousands die every month driving a car so are we going to quit driving, No we weigh the risks and make an informed decision. If you get one that is aggressive didn't someone state they will replace it?



Joel said:


> My suggestion before anyone decides to buy potentially Aficanized stock from anyone is to contact your Priest, Lawyer, bee inspector and neighbors in that order.


Right! Another ludicrous statement. Sure seems like someone has an agenda here.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

Let's not make the Weaver post a debate about Africanized bees. I met Binford and family years ago at ABF 1997 - norfolk and they are great people and good breeders. People buying from are getting their long line of genetics in my stock before the area was AHB. We can take the AHB debate to another section and you all can educate me better there.


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## BosqueBees (Aug 10, 2009)

tecumseh said:


> Jeffrey:
> I should say Jeffrey that I was curious and I wanted to know... so I tested about 20 percent of my total population. I then throughly inspected 'the problems' to determine origin. Number of queens reared in either season is not a huge number, but I do rear more queen in the spring than in the fall.
> 
> The seasonal variation is just as you seem to understand. I think that are some good reasons why this may be so.


What are the reason you feel this occurs? I had always thought of AHB coming through following the spring blooms. You data is very interesting. Where did you send samples to get analyzed? Thanks... Doug


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

I will chime in a little here. In 2005 I bought 7 packages from B Weaver. 3 Buckfast, 4 their AllStar. 

None of these bees produced any honey for me that year. 1 of the allstar obsconded immediately after releasing the queen which was at the end of a rainy cool week in Missouri. 1 of the buckfast was a dink queen. 1 of the other allstars was a dink queen. the rest of them while they went ahead and built up were by far the meanest bees I have ever had. Only 1 of those colonies survived the fairly mild winter in Missouri. 

This was the first and last time I bought packages from B Weaver as it proved their bees do not work well with my beekeeping plans. I never checked them in particular for mites and treated all colonies for mites equally that year.


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## hardtimekenl (Sep 21, 2009)

what about there all american queens thay rank the same to. was anyone used them in the past.


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## SamG347 (Oct 17, 2009)

I have spoken with both Weaver operations and heard both horror and happy stories when it comes to their queens. If you are wanting the real deal when it comes to Buckfast you are going to have to go the CANADIAN route. I have spoken also with breeders over in the U.K. and even a member of the Buckfast Abbey and they say that the Weaver's did have stock from them but what people are expirencing in the second year from Weaver's queens is NO where near what a true Buckfast should do. And is result of AHB genetic.


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

*Re: I use Weaver Queens.*



Jim Stevens said:


> I have several of B. Weavers Buckfast.
> 
> Yes the area has africanized Bees.
> 
> ...


Every thing quoted above is my experience also. I have a buckfast hive that is almost 2 years old. They are one my better hives. I would highly recommend them. If I were ordering buckfasts though I would go with r weavers because they don't import aussie bees like b weavers. I have met the folks at R weavers and talked with Clint weaver at our last state convention. They are great folks. Just my 2 cents.
Kingfisher


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

Sam, do you have any information about where to find the Canadian Buckfast bees. I looked for them after hearing about the project at Qwelth (I know I butchered the spelling) and have not since found a thing.


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## SamG347 (Oct 17, 2009)

http://www.fergusonapiaries.on.ca/

:thumbsup:


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## Hampton (Apr 24, 2007)

two years ago I found myself in need of a queen. I went out to my local club and one member had an extra Weaver queen. She went into the hive with no problems. By the end of 30 days or so those bees were very different. Both overly aggressive and defensive. I called in the local state apiarist to inspect them. He was concerned and took samples. I had been just about finished making new queens from other colonies and so I replaced that queen at that time with one of my own. The state guy took samples. Those bees were in question but were not full AHB. The queen from Weaver got squished. 40 days later all was well.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Joel said:


> Sam, do you have any information about where to find the Canadian Buckfast bees. I looked for them after hearing about the project at Qwelth (I know I butchered the spelling) and have not since found a thing.


Im not sure but last I knew the beekeeper in Canada selling Buckfast either couldn't sell NUCs or queens or both to folks in the US as the border wouldn't allow them in country. Maybe that has changed and maybe you can just order the queens now.


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## CovertBeekInColleyville (Jun 12, 2009)

Last year I ordered my very first italian bee packages...three in all. One of the hives was building up REALLY slow so I replaced the queen with a bee weaver queen. She is almost keeping up with another Italian hive that built up really fast. As far as temperament, I think the buckfast hive is as gentle/or mean as my other two Italian hives. In the summer, I couldn't tell any difference. None of the hives were happy when I would methodically go through every frame (like newbies like to do). 

Just remember when reading posts that use words like "gentle" or "aggressive", we are dealing with bees, not butterfly's.


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## Cordovan Italian Bee (Oct 27, 2009)

MABee said:


> Just wondering if anyone used Beeweaver queens. Do they live up to their claim of being mite resistant? How aggressive are these Texas bees?


I SAY,I live about 30 miles from them and have some of their bees. They have 4 different bees I know of and I love mine. They sell thousands of packages and queens to every place. Their all american I know are not aggressive and mite resistant. Don't know about their buckfast.This is RWeaver ,there is RWeaver and BWeaver. 

THEY SAY
Nosema in Queens - none
Acceptance - BEST (100%)
Spring Buildup - BEST
Gentleness - very gentle (second just behind Midnites)
Swarming Tendency - very low (ranked second)
Propolizing - slight (All Buckfast colonies)
Longevity of Queens - TIED FOR BEST (87% after 16 months)
Wintering - TIED FOR BEST
and...
HONEY PRODUCTION - BEST (during two years). For details see the February, March, and April 1982 issues of American Bee Journal. 




In Addition to these tests results we have observed the following: 

Housekeeping - Buckfast bees keep a clean, neat hive. This helps them to resist diseases of the brood. 

Adaptation - These bees do well anywhere, but are especially well adapted to areas having damp, cold winters. 

Compatibility - Buckfast Queens cross well with other breeds. 

Color - Variable. The bees have a tendency toward a general dark Italian appearance. 



MAIN CHARACTERISTICS OF THE WEAVER ITALIANS:
GENTLE - Our bees are not inclined to sting. They are easy to handle because they remain quiet on the combs and do not run and boil out of the hive when it is opened. 

QUICK BUILD-UP - Our Queens are prolific and, under favorable conditions, build up very quickly. In some northern areas truckloads of two pound packages produce an average of 225 pounds of honey year after year. 

LOW SWARMING TENDENCY - It is characteristic of the species that unmanaged bees must swarm to preserve the race. Although our bees build up very strong, they have been bred not to swarm if they are given plenty of room. 

HIGH HONEY PRODUCTION - Weaver Italians will produce more honey than ordinary bees which means more money for the beekeeper at the end of the year. They are capable of producing enormous crops if the weather cooperates. The ITALIANS and BUCKFASTS produced by R Weaver are about equal in production. 

WINTERING - Our Italians keep a rather large open brood nest, but normally will store honey in the brood nest if they are crowded down during the fall honeyflow. They winter best in two- or three-story colonies. 

PROPOLIZING - Not bad - about medium. 

HOUSEKEEPING - These bees keep a very clean, neat, orderly hive with very little brace comb. 

ADAPTATION - Our Italians seem to be well adapted to all climatic conditions. In the northern latitudes they are used successfully by beekeepers who overwinter, by beekeepers who operate with package bees, and by beekeepers who go south to make up nucs. 

COMPATIBILITY - These bees cross well with other breeds. 

COLOR - Variable. While breeding in good characteristics we did not give much weight to color. The general appearance of the colony is that of dark and hardy Italians.

http://rweaver.com/





BeeWeaver Queens
Disease Resistant, Mite Tolerant, Big Honey Producer
BeeWeaver breeder colonies are selected annually from our thousands of hives. Our bees have not needed ANY mite treatments since 2001.

When a BeeWeaver Queen heads your colony you will be able to throw away those expensive mite treatments as well.

The BeeWeaver breed is a combination of our long time All Star and Buckfast breed lines, as well as the best genetics our BeeSMaRt line had to offer. 


I SAY,These are a little aggressive,but great bees. They told me they kill all aggressive hives. They are so big i'm sure they keep AHB out. Note,they only sell the taylor made bee if you buy 50.

http://www.beeweaver.com/home.php


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

DRUR - with all respect- We experienced something that I would not have otherwise believed. Had a hive in a moderately productive yard that early built up to above average population, and became quite mean. We waited and worked this hive last, one person smoking, the other manipulating. It did however make almost twice the honey of an average hive. We worked the hive about every two weeks, suffering as we went, until about the end of August. We then saw queen cells, and no eggs. Two weeks later the hive was of average temperament, with an unclipped queen(new). It is not logical, but that is what we experienced. 

Roland


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## Countryboy (Feb 15, 2009)

_Roland we (beeks) had aggressive queens during the 70's and 80's when there weren't supposedly AHB. _

IIRC, Africanized bees were introduced along the Mississippi River in the 50's and 60's. It was done quietly, but they've been around longer than most folks realize.

In another thread, odfrank has talked of his problems with hives dying, and he mentioned the hives which live the longest for him have been swarms gathered from a certain zip, and Weaver All American. I believe Tom Laury credits some of that due to the Apis Adonsii genetics.


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## StevenG (Mar 27, 2009)

I would be interested in knowing the source of the information that the African Honey Bee was introduced into the Mississippi River valley in the 1950s and 1960's. From all I've read, the African Honey Bee was imported into Brazil in the 1950's. The bee escaped, or was released, and began a 300 km per year migration. The United States was well aware of the impending doom regarding this bee, and steps were taken to study it and discern ways to either slow it down, or dilute it. It's arrival was expected, and traps were set to discover when and where it would arrive. The first trace of the AHB was found in Texas in late 1990. So what is the source of your information that the AHB was in the Mississippi River Valley in the 1950's and '60's?
Regards,
Steven


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## DRUR (May 24, 2009)

Ouch, here I go again, come in for a drink of water and a potty break and check my e-mails. I am dating myself (but am to old to care), wasn't there a 70's song about no time for the gentle rain, no time for yoooouuu, no time for yooouuu? But alas, not in may nature not to respond I suppose.



Countryboy said:


> _Roland we (beeks) had aggressive queens during the 70's and 80's when there weren't supposedly AHB. _
> 
> IIRC, Africanized bees were introduced along the Mississippi River in the 50's and 60's. It was done quietly, but they've been around longer than most folks realize.


Yes, I have heard that and read it in a study that is why a qualified my statement with the word '*supposedly*'. Guess I should have instead used '*purportedly*'.



Countryboy said:


> In another thread, odfrank has talked of his problems with hives dying, and he mentioned the hives which live the longest for him have been swarms gathered from a certain zip, and Weaver All American. I believe Tom Laury credits some of that due to the Apis Adonsii genetics.


I have a lot of respect for Tom; although we have butted heads in a very constructive way in the past; and unfortunately/fortunately I had to modify some of my prior positions/statements. However, unless Tom had the bees tested, I am guessing that this is just a hunch on his part, which as you know many of the experienced beeks' hunches like Tom's are correct more often than not. Longevity from Weaver's bees may have other reasons-see my comments below.

That being said I would like to make one more observation before I opt out of this and the other threads, which I know will make most happy. 

During the 70's and 80's (before varroa and other new challenges) the industry was concentrating on production of nectar, high pollination skills, and gentleness of bees. You could order queens of whatever blend or skills/traits that you generally wanted. I chose Midnites, the main drawback being propolis production which I worked with. I found Midnites to be as productive in honey production as the Starlines (with their low propolis production). However; after the challenges of the late 90's and 2000's hit, beeks were left to concentrate on just survival. The other traits took a back seat including gentleness and nectar production. Consequently, I speculate that much of the defensiveness being seen is at least partially of this result, and not necessarily because of Ahb genetics. Now that bees are now able to survive without excessive intervention by man, we can again begin concentrating on other traits. My midnites were extremely gentle; however, I regularly helped and worked hundreds and thousands of colonies for others. You learn to deal with excessive defensivness/aggressiveness. 

I think the industry has reached a point where they will now move back to concentrating on some of these other traits. I used Weaver queens (Howard as I can recall), during the 70's and 80's. The Weaver family is probably the oldest beekeeping family in continuous existence. In their area there will be a risk of some AHB influence, but I also believe, that they will/do implement proper management techniques to minimize the problem. Conservation/gentleness is your goal and you have no interest in production of the products of the hive, and your not into making money, just for fun or whatever, then you might be better with another queen producer. If your going to run with the big dogs and compete with nectar production/bee production etc. you might want to consider that overall the sacrifice of getting a hot Ahb queen (occassionally) is by far overweighed by their other benefits. I say again, the Weavers didn't get where they are today (charging the highend for their queens), consistantly selling out, by having an inferior product. BeeWeaver doesn't treat and instead of being slandered on this sight, they should be esteemed in the highest regard as a leader in the industry. I certainly do, and not because of my association with them but because of what they have accomplished.

Ever since I can remember I have always been getting in trouble by defending those that have been bullied or mistreated. I often thought that I had a leaning towads the weak and needy. The Weaver's aren't weak and needy, so my hope is that actually it was a desire to see that justice is done.

Gayen mitt Gott/Vaya con Dios
Kindest Regards
Danny Unger


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

DRUR - you are correct, we are in agreement. I sit corrected.

Roland


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## Hampton (Apr 24, 2007)

Sorry for jumping in late. I was busy yesterday.

DRUR, I can tell you this, The queen did come from weaver because it was still in their package. The other club member ordered a queen from them and had a problem (not sure what it was). When he called them they sent him two queens back, so he had an extra one and it just so happened at the time I needed one. so yes it was a weaver queen.

As far as time goes it was over 3 months from the time I needed a queen and when things finally got back to normal. 

I just told my story as best to the facts as they are. If you don't beleive me too bad. It happened. 

If you choose to call me a liar you had better back up! You were not here so how do you know? You don't know me or my operation, my ability or my knowledge level.


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## Hampton (Apr 24, 2007)

One more thing...

I ment not to piss on anyone... The question was "Just wondering if anyone used Beeweaver queens. Do they live up to their claim of being mite resistant? How aggressive are these Texas bees?"

What is the sense of asking a question if the only reports allowed are the positive ones? I'm sure Weaver makes great queens. I did have one problem though. Should I not speak my peace.

And lastly DRUR, Any time you want the Virginia State Apiarists phone number you just send me a bmail. I keep it in my cell and in the list of important number by the phone at home. I talk to him or his assistant at least twice a month.


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