# Bees & Chicken Feed



## TexasFreedom (Feb 25, 2016)

We had a nice warm day down here in TX, and the bees were all over the chicken feeders.

Had the same issue last year, the chickens won't go near their feeders. I've got 3 'flocks' so multiple feeders for each group. The feeders inside a 'darker' coop didn't have bees, but any out in the open did.

My question originally was going to be any recommendations on keeping the bees out of the chicken feeders. But as I'm typing this, I have an idea. Tomorrow (it's supposed to rain tonight), I'm going to take an open pan & put chicken feed 'dust' into it. I'm going to put that up higher above other feeders. The bees should prefer being higher and a big flat pan with smaller particles should be more attractive as well. I'll post how that goes.

But since I've already typed this, anyone else have any other suggestions? For all the comedians, I've already tried small 'no trespassing, that means YOU bees' with the picture-warning to no effect.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

This could be a lot like trying to keep bees from drinking in swimming pools. 

You could try giving the bees something that they might like better than chicken feed - such as pollen substitute. There are a variety of commercial formulations, and a number of threads on "homemade" versions.


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

TexasFreedom said:


> For all the comedians, I've already tried small 'no trespassing, that means YOU bees' with the picture-warning to no effect.


Sit in a lawn chair with a cooler full of your favorite lager and fire warning shots. This works well when scaring off scouts from Odfrank’s swarm traps. It might work on your chicken feeder problem!


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## TexasFreedom (Feb 25, 2016)

yup, I knew the commodians would show up! 

A buddy had that issue on an active hive, dumb teenager with a 12 gauge... what can you do?


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## Buzz-kill (Aug 23, 2017)

TexasFreedom said:


> yup, I knew the commodians would show up!
> 
> A buddy had that issue on an active hive, dumb teenager with a 12 gauge... what can you do?
> 
> View attachment 37033


I dunno. Take the 12 guage away from the dumb teenager?


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

TexasFreedom said:


> We had a nice warm day down here in TX, and the bees were all over the chicken feeders.


build a few dry pollen sub feeders until natural pollen shows up.
They look like this:








materials:
1 - 4 inch Thin walled Drain Pipe (or sewer pipe) PVC
1- 4 inch PVC adapter Fitting (to attach down spouts)
1- 4 inch PVC Pipe Cap
cut the thin walled drain pipe to 12"-16"
glue on the ends (pvc cement or silicone)
stand on end and fill 1/2-3/4 full of dry pollen sub.
the feeder is mounted horizontally with a slight pitch downward on the entry side to keep water out.
mount on a fence or tree.
easy to make, and cheap. all parts readily available.

the bees will find it and abandon the chicken feed. better if you got it out there before they found the chicken feed though.
I have a yard on a free range tractor style chicken farm and have to keep them out of the chicken feed early in the 
spring before natural pollen shows up. pvc pollen feeders is how I do it.


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

I noticed them going into the coop myself. I also noted that they were on the stinky fill that the neighbor brought in and going crazy for water around the green seams of the water catch tote. Figured just odd behavior. 
Do you have to fill it ½ full? I put some out in a pan under the eves last year and some in the bird feeder the year before with no takers. I hate to use 5 lbs.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

They do this every year to my chicken feeders. I always figured if I didn't feed half cracked corn (cheaper) and stuck with just laying pellets that this wouldn't happen. I usually let the chickens fend for themselves. I have seen chickens eat with the bees and neither bother each other. I also usually only see this for a couple of days in my area. It will happen for the first few flying days in feb/march and then they are on the trees. I have never seen it go on for more then a few days. I saw it even before I got bees. A couple of times I went out and tried to throw flour on the bees to turn them white so I might see thier flight path but my eyes were never good enough to follow them if they got near any branches of trees and so that ended up being a wash.
I have heard others say like Clyderoad indicated that they used the bees doing this as a sign it was time to offer pollen. I won't offer pollen cause it usually happens pretty early and I don't want my bees to have any help on build up till I get a little better at swarm control.
Cheers
gww


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## TexasFreedom (Feb 25, 2016)

Gww,

Bees are going after my laying pellets as well as my new chick feed.

I did put out some of the feed crumbs in easier-to-fly-in locations. Also mixed a few cups of Mann Lake pollen with more chicken feed crumbs about 100' away early this morning. We'll see this afternoon when I get home if that cleared things up. It's nearly 70F again today. I'm not sure if we going to get any more real freezing weather this year.

Just out of curiousity, I looked up some of the DIY pollen substitutes. Every one is meaningfully more expensive than just buying it, and that's for the better off-the-shelf stuff. Are DIY formulas any better? Just curious.


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## jsterling (Apr 30, 2017)

Don't bee so cheap. Buy sum Mann Lake Ultra Bee and put in a bucket, turn bucket on its side outside of chicken pens and bees will leave chicken feed alone. If the bees are going to work at least don't let em waste energy gathering corn dust. in the winter it is doubtfully they will gather enough pollen sub to cause them to kick into full brood rearing but may benefit from some pollen.


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## psm1212 (Feb 9, 2016)

I like that design clyderoad.


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## TexasFreedom (Feb 25, 2016)

jsterling said:


> Don't bee so cheap. Buy sum Mann Lake Ultra Bee and put in a bucket, turn bucket on its side outside of chicken pens and bees will leave chicken feed alone. If the bees are going to work at least don't let em waste energy gathering corn dust. in the winter it is doubtfully they will gather enough pollen sub to cause them to kick into full brood rearing but may benefit from some pollen.


jsterling,
I actually am using the Ultra Bee. The reason I mixed it with the chicken feed dust is to give them that same 'chicken feed' scent as well as to slow them down. Mixed a few cups of pollen with a couple of pounds of feed dust. They're going crazy on it, just checked a few minutes ago. The reason I want to 'slow' them down is that it's still early here and I don't want them going into full pre-spring ramp-up just yet. I'm assuming that the blended chicken feed will make them work a little harder to get to the pollen? I'll want to go early as I want to do splits this year, but not quite yet as drones aren't out yet.

Keep in mind it's near 70 and will be most of this week. I've got about 10 hives within 500 ft. How much pollen is 'too much' to avoid the population ramping? Note that the other day I put out a gallon of 1:1 sugarwater in an open feeder, and it was sucked dry within an hour.

PS: By 'going crazy', here is what I saw. One group had set up a disco ball with lighting at one end of the pollen/feed. Another group in the middle were doing break-dancing (not my style). At the far end 400 bees were doing country line dancing. Really! I tried to get a picture. They are out of control.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

TexasFreedom, It sounds like the bees are hungry and ready to go. I don't think purposely starving them is a good idea. Now, compare the protein and ingredients of your layer feed to the pollen sub. I'm beginning to think you are onto something. If the bees will eat it while waiting for real pollen, why not? Seems a bag of feed is a lot less expensive than 50# of ultra bee. I can make dust in a food processor. Unconventional does not necessarily mean wrong.


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## psm1212 (Feb 9, 2016)

The fact that they are picking it up and packing it away into their hives does not necessarily mean that it has nutritional value for the bees. I don't worry about them hitting my layer pellets, but I don't want to do anything that encourages that. I am not sure just how discerning bees are when it comes to quality of pollen. I once watched bees work a pile of saw dust. I know they didn't get anything nutritional out of that.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Maybe they were not bees but really large termites? Anyhow, that's why you need to look at the ingredients. Commercial chicken feed is way more than a bunch of ground up corn, I just don't have a bag handy to compare. But since the primary ingredients of pollen sub are soy flour and brewers yeast, I dont "know" if chicken feed is all that different. Somebody look it up, please.


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## TexasFreedom (Feb 25, 2016)

Commercial chicken feed. Looked at 2 bags from different manufacturers I have here. Not very informative. Basically, chick starter is 18% protein. Layer formula is lower protein, I think 12 or 16%. No list of ingredients at all. But at $10/50 lb bag, I can be certain that it's not quality Brewer's Yeast!

My chickens are all afraid of the bees. So the chickens aren't eating. That's the reason I need to distract the bees to somewhere else.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

I was looking at my local coop for their ingredients. Not much there either, just protein and in some cases meds, which I definitely don't want the bees ingesting. Ok, it was just a thought. Still think that if the bees are going after it, they are signalling their need. Break out the Ultra Bee


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## TexasFreedom (Feb 25, 2016)

JWP,

My question again is how much is too much? Again, 10 hives within 500 ft. I've got most of a 10 lb bucket of ultra bee sitting here. My concern again is them kicking into baby production.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

My chickens are free range and if they were penned up, i might worry more. I did find that the bees did not stay interested for too long but there were a lot of them when they were there. I did not worry about the chickens too much and they did not seem that intimidated by the bees even though there were a lot of bees. I did see chickens pecking the food while the bees were there and so just didn't worry about it but they could go elswhere and eat grass or a bug.

I have watched this interaction for 3/4 years and never worried and never noticed an impact on the chickens and like I said, the bees usually find something better out there with in the week. It always seems to happen when the first few days are warm enough to free the bees from the hives for full day of more then just cleansing flights.

It could just be that I am mean to my chickens. If your chickens are penned up and have no alturnative but to get thier subsistance from just what you provide, it might be a bigger worry but chickens are pretty good survivers food wise. You might try throwing some stuff out that you know bees don't like, like lettuce, kale, table scraps. That could get you over the hump no matter what the bees do. Maby some oat meal on the ground or something. I was given a bunch of flour and have been making bread and feeding it. They say bread is not very nutritious and can gum in thier craw but so far so good.
Good luck.
gww


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

JWPalmer said:


> But since the primary ingredients of pollen sub are soy flour and brewers yeast, I dont "know" if chicken feed is all that different. Somebody look it up, please.


Various chicken feeds differ, of course. But its not unreasonable that bees find usable protein in chicken feed/chick starter IMO. For instance, one product:


> Ingredients:
> Organic Corn, Organic [HIGHLIGHT] Soybean Meal[/HIGHLIGHT], Organic Oats, Organic Barley, Organic Wheat Midds, Organic Soy Oil, DL-Methionine, Iron Oxide, Calcium Carbonate, Salt. Monocalcium Phosphate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Ferrous Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide, Sodium Selenite, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin A Supplement, Choline Chloride, Niacin Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Menadione Dimethylpyrimidinol Bisulfite, Zinc Methionine Complex
> 
> https://www.petsmart.com/bird/food-...ium - Specialty - Bird | Food &utm_medium=cpc


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

And about half of the hard to pronounce ingredients are in the Vitamins and Electrolytes Plus that Lauri recommends. Maybe not so far out of the apiary after all.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

texas....
I am new. My opinion is that if you don't want babies, feeding any is too much. I have always heard that if you start feeding pollen you need to give them all they want and keep feeding untill real pollen comes in. I have read on randy olivers site that if the bees do raise brood with out rescources that the larva that was not feed good will be poor foragers and it will impact the loads of pollen they carry and how many carry pollen when those babies become foragers. To me with not experiance that says don't feed any and if you do, give them enough to do all they want to do till real pollen begins. I have elected to give them none.
Good luck
gww


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Gww, I think this is where the beekeeping being local comes in. I have stated before that I intend to give any hives that survived this winter a boost for production. Our maple starts blooming mid Feb so it is not really that much of a head start. In MO, I don't know when the good stuff becomes available so the timing could be way different. My goal is early splits but the more foragers you have when the flow starts, the better your harvest should be too. Hopefully, I'll be able to check on the girls this weekend. Have to go out of town during the best days we'll have had in several weeks.

Even though I don't have chickens any more, my neighbor's coop is about 50 feet from my hives. I need to warn them about the potential for bees in the feed.


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## TexasFreedom (Feb 25, 2016)

I should add that most of my bees are africanized. All wild-caught colonies. Last year in a 'battle' 10 hens & my rooster were killed by an angry colony, and other birds left partially blind. It was a real mess. That colony was removed. And my hens all free range. My younger birds are penned (about 6 wks old now). 

That feed ingredient list looks like a chemistry book. I suppose I don't look at what I eat either for that reason!


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

jw
I had your name at the top of the last post on accident. 

To your point of locations, your post makes it more one of goals. You want splits and probly want them as early as you can get them. I just watched a differrent vidio from someone who said all you need to look at to see how a hive was doing was to watch the pollen band between the honey on top and the brood. He pointed out that if it was empty and their was brood that bad things seem to happen to the hive. But he also pointed out that there are times and reasons to just let things happen. So my goal is swarm control and not having to adress it earlier then needed and even though this may impact forager numbers for the flow, if I am using local bees used to my location that I decide to relie on the bees to get it right. On randies articals on build up and decline of the hive, you can get this wrong and peak too early and also too late. I don't have the experiance and so just decide what I want most and then take all the things I have read and see if I can pick parts that might get me to my goals.

I am not going to feed pollen also cause I don't want to buy stuff and am willing to take what I get with out buying stuff. I think pollen substitute is a good investment if I take others test when using it to keep healthy bees but for my hobby bee keeping, I have differrent goals on what to work on. 

As far as warning your neibor with chickens, if you have anyone with cattle and saw mills, the bees will be on them at the same time they are on chicken feed.

My trees will be close to your trees but it is usually too cold for the bees to use them well. Last year it was warm in feb and the bees got on them early. They also swarmed early. It got cold again in late march early april and my bees started swarming on the 13th of april on the first few 70 degree days. So I did not feed them pollen but the extra warm inviroment did and I saw the results and so my goal is to have the bees a couple of weeks further into april before I start losing the swarming battle. That at least gets me past the last frost date to do my manipulations or splits if needed to stop swarming.

I have heard (not experianced) that once you start supplimenting, you need to keep it up untill natural pollen comes in.
Cheers
gww


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

Texas
I had something break into my brood house one time and kill (14 I think) in one night. My guess is it was a ****. I have forgot the door open a couple of times and lost one or came home and found a possum eating in the food bowl and half the chickens out side at night. My neibor forgot the door open and just lost eight in one night. I would be looking for some queens and try to requeen the african hives. I am glad that so far it is not a worry where I live cause I have been scared by the horror stories. I am surprized that the chickens being free range could not find a way to get away from your bees. I can see where it was a mess. You gotta hate days like that.
Cheers
gww


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

I agree with your assessment. If you start feeding early, you have to continue until the flow starts or they will out brood the resources available were you to stop. The chemically sounding stuff in the food we eat is mostly vitamins and minerals (or cancer causing preservatives). On a slightly different note, I just looked at the ingredient list on Arnold Healthy Multi-grain bread. The sixth item is "cellulose fiber". I may be wrong , but isn't that the same as sawdust?


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## TexasFreedom (Feb 25, 2016)

Gww,

Try chickendoors.com , solve your closing the coop at night problem easily. Too many predators.

Yeah, it was a really bad mess. Rooster was probably 150ft away where he died. It was my fault, I had opened the hive for inspection. I went back to the house right after that & didn't realize what was happening for about 10 minutes.

While I don't like the aggression, there are many benefits. I'm having 0 percent colony failures. No issues with varroa or SHB. Little to no robbing issues. And requeening is nearly impossible with colonies like this. But they really are less work than Europeans, just always suit up. And I moved most of the hives about 500 ft away.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

JWPalmer said:


> The sixth item is "cellulose fiber". I may be wrong , but isn't that the same as sawdust?


Lots of things could be the 'cellulose fiber' ingredient. '_Straw_' would also qualify.

Note that hay and straw are not really the same. Hay includes the seed pods, is intended to be relatively nutritious and good alfalfa hay might be around 15% protein. Straw is the stalk that remains after the grains are stripped off, and straw might be around 3% protein.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

I've watched the bees in the chicken feed standing along side the chicken farmer ( it's how he convinced me 
that we needed to try to keep the bees out of the feed). The pollen feeders have been used there in early spring ever since.
Anyway, Neither one of us has ever seen a chicken eat a live honey bee over the years. Other bugs, yes, but never a honey bee.


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## Beebeard (Apr 27, 2016)

They get into bird feeders as well. I've watched dozens of them land in my neighbor's feeder that's full of the mixed seed stuff. They burrow and bury and generally roll around in the stuff like a cat in a field of catnip. they come out all dusty and dopey looking and fly off with about a teaspoon of powder covering them. By early spring, my bottom boards are covered in bits of cracked corn and millet seeds. I have no idea what they are doing with it, but they sure seem to like it. They stop once the maple pollen comes in.


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## TexasFreedom (Feb 25, 2016)

Those little girls are really frustrating, I wish they would read some of the better books on bees.

So this morning I go out, it's low 40's, maybe 8am. No bees, they've done a great job of picking up all of the ultra bee (yellow vs tan chicken feed) and most of the chicken feed powder. I stir it, there is still some ultra bee buried that they couldn't reach. But I also notice quite a bit of chick grains that have been tossed out of the pan. OK. So I mix in another cup of chicken feed powder and maybe 3 cups of ultra bee. I get the good idea to get my small weight scale (accurate to 0.1 oz up to 13 lbs), & I'm going to weigh it. Weigh in now & tonight to see how much they take. What, 2 minutes? I get back & at least 200 bees are on it. It's mid 40's F. girls! Go back to bed! I try to pick it up, 5 fly into my beard (no stings, but nobody likes this). I stop before they get upset. Four hives are only 75 ft away, most are about 500 ft back. I did get a picture, you can see the grains in front. The pan is one of those commercial kitchen types, maybe 12"x18" for scale.

I'll have to try it again tomorrow.

I still would like guidance on how much to feed daily for 10 hives. They will take all I put out, I bet I can put out 5 lbs and it'll be gone this afternoon. Trying to slow things down... and I have have at least 10 more lbs of chicken feed powder (chickens won't eat it as it's gotten messy).


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

> I still would like guidance on how much to feed daily for 10 hives.


Who know's? too many variables.
Look into the hive and see how much pollen is stored in there. A couple of deep frames equivalent is fine to begin brooding with,
natural pollen will be available soon.


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## TexasFreedom (Feb 25, 2016)

It's now 52F outside. How does the song go, "an hour later, the cops arrive"...









Note that it's just a base & some boxes to the left, something to support an open sugar-water feeder I set up some time back (no feed in it now). I did have to destroy the disco ball from yesterday, not sure what they're building today. But I did hear them singing/humming "that's the way, uhhu uhhu we like it, uhhu uhhu."

As it warms up today & I'll go & inspect some of my hives out back to see what stores they have. They're the cutouts from this past year so they'll have the lowest stores. I'll also put some ultra bee on top of the inner cover so they can private feed inside (unless that's a bad idea?). Maybe 1/2 cup in each hive?


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## TexasFreedom (Feb 25, 2016)

I've typed this 2 times now... let's see if I can get this post right.

56F outside. When I forget things, it hurts. The more I forget the more it hurts. Forgot the smoker, it was only going to be a quick look, right? And, forgot to double sock. 5 nails in the ankles.

Hive examination. Plenty of honey/sugar water. Looked in 2 hives. Some pollen, not lots. Didn't get a good look into the brood, was doing the ankle dance at that point. But it doesn't look like much if any build-up is going on. I did put maybe 1/2 cup of ultra-bee on top in the hives, will go back maybe in a few days (with double socks) & see if they took it in.

My bees are like me: when food is available I'm lined up. I should have guessed, 3 cups of ultra bee were probably gone within an hour of the mob. They were digging down for what was buried. This picture was maybe 3-4 hours after the feeder was filled. I put another cup or two on top (ultrabee).

I'm not sure if they were singing, I thought I heard a line of "hi ho, hi ho, it's off to work we go"... we're the dwarfs miners? But they stopped and seemed to enjoy my post-ankle-pain dance.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Karen Carpenter's "We've OnlyJust Begun" is the song I think your bees might be singing. Until you have a couple of deeps per hive filled with sub, I would keep feeding as much as they can take in 5-6 hours, then do it again each day until you have those frames or natural pollen starts.


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## jsterling (Apr 30, 2017)

Glad you are putting out the good sub. It's hard to say how much is enough but I would put some out every day and see what happens. Here in middle Tn. It usually turns cold before they get going with much brood when I put it out early. Let us know if they take it dry inside the hive. I haven't had any luck with that.


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## TexasFreedom (Feb 25, 2016)

JW,

Wow, I think you've hit a couple of bullseyes. First, I didn't realize they had found my wife's old record collection. We probably have that on CD as well.

But the quantity is a key thought. OK, up north a hive needs 2 deeps full to make it through a typical winter. Down here the 'rule of thumb' is to give them 3 supers, or a deep and a super full going into winter. If I break it down, Sept/Oct was when everything stopped & they began living off their stores. This will continue into March/April when nectar flow exceeds consumption. Call that 6 months. Let me break that into 2 supers full of honey/pollen (leave 1 for brood). Let me round that to about 150 lbs of food stores. 

That's a bit high, the 'rule of thumb' here is closer to 70 lbs of honey. They do find some food over that time, but let me split the difference: 100 lbs. OK, easier math. At this point I'm 1/2 way through 'winter', so 50 lbs are already gone, so they need maybe 50 lbs. That works out to roughly one full medium 10 frame. And I'd put that at 80% honey/ 20% pollen. So roughly 8 frames of honey & 2 more of pollen. For those splitting they might need a little more, for those not maybe a bit less.

So maybe I'm answering my own question. Some of my hives are fat & getting fatter (just like their daddy, I'm so proud! Cough cough). Some will need a little more help. The new colonies will need more pollen. I'll see how individual hive feeding will go but know some robbing will be an issue (so I'll likely do a public feeder an hour before the individual feeding).

Yes, that Carpenter's song sounds perfect.

All that's left is to look at pollen for an early ramp-up for splits. If I have 4 weeks of feeding pollen, maybe a cup a day for the next 2 weeks, then 2 cups/day for the next two? That's for public feeding, a little more for hives needing help. At least it's a starting point. "We've only just begun"... Many thanks to all those who contributed here.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

texas
I am not sure your math is correct. Just cause half the time went by does not mean half the stores were used. When they start rearing brood is when the big portion of stores would be used and not much before that. The reason for 70 lbs is because the bees will raise some brood in preperation to have the work force to collect when the flow begins. They should hardly have used much yet but if you feed pollen and they raise brood, they will use a lot. I am new and do not mind being corrected if I am saying something wrong.
Cheers
gww


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## TexasFreedom (Feb 25, 2016)

gww,

That has merit. I think you get more consumption early on (lots of bees alive). It rolls off going into winter. And it really ramps up in Spring as larvae are being fed leading up to the population explosions BEFORE the nectar flow when food will start to come in.

So maybe 35 or 40% of consumption has happened? These are all ballpark estimates. I'll have to monitor the hives over the next few months. But they are far from being at 'critical' levels.

Oh, I'm not sure if my alternate feeding is helping or hurting. Still have plenty of bees today in the chicken feeders. I only gave them 1 cup of ultrabee this morning. So I think they sucked it down in no time then went on looking for other sources.

I'll be trying another version. I got some patties from a friend who ordered too much. I'll give them some of that tomorrow. I'm curious if that will take them more work to eat as a 'chunk' rather than just powder.

I am enjoying being able to stand feet from a few thousand bees flying around without protection. That just doesn't happen with all my africanized girls. Happiness is found through a bee's stomach! A whole lot cheaper than diamonds & gold.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

I think it is important to remember that bees don't starve to death in the winter so much as they do in the early spring. That is when the stores consumption really kicks into high gear. The bees are biologically programed to start brood rearing as soon as the days start to get longer (the winter solstice effect). Give them what they want, as long as it's not jewelry.


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## TexasFreedom (Feb 25, 2016)

Here's a word for all newbies. A fellow I've 'mentored' in BK, he had about 8 hives going into fall. One absconded, ok that happens. 7. I had asked him if he was feeding, I had recommended that he feed, he said they all had plenty of stores, they were good. Asked about once a month the last few months. But I didn't go over to his place until today. He has one empty box, 4 hives and 3 boxes with dead bees. Likely starved. He was bummed (and no reason to beat him up about spilled milk). I gave him some pollen, he made a couple of gallons of sugar water & they were set out for open feeding. In the couple of hours I was there, the 2 cups of ultra bee were found and all but completely gone. He'll be ordering more pollen and getting more sugar.

There is an old expression: "Trust, but verify"...

So as others have said, FEED them! Check your hives... And trust your newbies like you would a 4 year old when they say "yes, I washed my hands"...

BTW, these patties I got are Bee-Pro from MannLake. Bees were not impressed. I cut a couple of pieces, about like a sausage link & put it on top of the chicken feed powder/ground-in ultra bee. A couple of bees were on it, but 10 times more were tunneling trying to get to any leftover ultra powder. Maybe because powder is easy to take up than chewing on the patty? Or maybe because of ultra vs bee-pro? Not sure, but I'll be getting more ultra powder & work from there. I'll try some of these patties inside the hives & see if it's more appetizing there.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

Good grief.
Isn't there someone experienced nearby that could advise you both? or even a club?


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## TexasFreedom (Feb 25, 2016)

There is a club, in fact we had a meeting yesterday that I attended. And I've been asking within the club but it's not that active. I've gotten some of the same advice as here, but without hands-on it's hard to answer (and I get that). This is a fairly rural area, so the closest member is probably 20 miles away. This other fellow is closer, but a full 15 miles away and we have lots of gravel roads out here.

I think I've gotten good answers here (and I do appreciate it). At this point I'm just documenting things for future readers and having some fun with songs.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

Well that's too bad, hands on experience shortens the learning curve. 
I'm familiar with the town Caldwell having traveled through and lived nearby for a good number of years.

We have a club here that I attend sometimes and it takes attending a few meetings before those that can help
open up a bit. That's how I play it anyway and think the others do as well, with the exception of those who charge for
bees class as they are welcoming right off the bat to all comers. And it takes a good few meetings before new beekeepers
start putting some pieces together too. Lots goes right over the head and mixed up with what they read 
others are doing in far reaches of the country. The biology of the bees, or "ways of the bees", is the same everywhere and differs
only in timing. Get that and you'll adopt methods of your own that will work for you in your location.

One last word, pushing bees early sends them to the trees early too so be ready for it. 

ps I know you are having fun with songs but is there any chance we can up the song list a bit?


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## TexasFreedom (Feb 25, 2016)

clyderoad said:


> Well that's too bad, hands on experience shortens the learning curve.
> I'm familiar with the town Caldwell having traveled through and lived nearby for a good number of years.


You are thinking of the town, I live in the county of Caldwell. For non-Texans, this state takes the same 'name' and there is a town and a county both by the same name, and are typically 300 miles apart.



clyderoad said:


> We have a club here that I attend sometimes and it takes attending a few meetings before those that can help
> open up a bit. That's how I play it anyway and think the others do as well, with the exception of those who charge for
> bees class as they are welcoming right off the bat to all comers. And it takes a good few meetings before new beekeepers
> start putting some pieces together too. Lots goes right over the head and mixed up with what they read
> ...


I've regularly attended meetings for 2 years, I'm familiar with the people in it and they are helpful when they can be. My buddy doesn't attend, but he's working a job doing 6 days/12 hour shifts. And he's military reserves/married/kids... I can't fault him. I'd been trying to get together with him since after Thanksgiving. I think he had been looking at 2 of the hives that were more established and didn't realize the newer colonies were so far behind.



clyderoad said:


> One last word, pushing bees early sends them to the trees early too so be ready for it.


That's the careful balance that I've been trying to work. Hence all the questions I've been asking.



clyderoad said:


> ps I know you are having fun with songs but is there any chance we can up the song list a bit?


Uh oh. Not sure what you mean here! 'Up' the list? Update, as in newer songs? So sorry, I don't know that there are but a few songs from the past decade or two even worth quoting. How about this: when I put out the patty, I think they were singing "Beer for my Horses" (Toby Keith). Hey, for me that's pretty new, released 2003!
And this afternoon when the cold front hit, they requested I get the DVD "Gone with the Wind". (ok, that's one's old, even for me)
How about this, anyone remember Weird Al Yankovic? My family actually knew his family back in the 80's before he got famous. He did a fun version of Micheal Jackson's "Beat it". It was called "Eat it"... and I saw some bees moonwalking and singing it yesterday!
I'm afraid Hollywood is influencing my bees in a bad way. One walked over to the 1:1 feeder, raised her eyebrows and winked, then said "heeeeeyyyyy sugar". (yes,everyone moan on that one)

Thank you. Thank you. Don't forget to tip your waitstaff. And I'll be here all weekend. (is that better? or really bad in a good kinda way?)


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

Well the 183 road south to Victoria leads through Lockhart and Luling a road well traveled by me. Caldwell town can't be 300 miles from Caldwell Co., can it? maybe 100 I'd guess.

And here I thought the thread was about bees and chickens, didn't notice much emphasis on controlling early broodup.
This is somewhat dated but may be useful timing the cycle of your bees:

THE HONEY AND POLLEN-YIELDING PLANTS OF
TEXAS.
By A. F. Conradi, Clemaon College, 8. C.
Triple-leafed Barberry. (Berberis trifoliata Moric.) On gravelly hills from the Gulf coast to the Limpia mountains. Yields honey abundantly, also pollen. Blooms January and February and is important for early brood rearing.
Prickly Poppy. (Argemone platyccrvs Link and Otto.) Abundant along roadsides, in waste fields and on prairies. Honey yield unimportant, but yields abundant pollen during dearth of summer. In the Brazos River Valley bees work heavily on it during June. The orange-colored pollen is carried to the hive, making the combs look disagreeable. May to July.
Poppy. (Papavcr rhaeas L.) Honey yield unimportant owing to scarcity of plants. May.
Pepper wort. Pepper grass. (Lepidium virginicum L.) ‘Widely distributed. Yields small quantities of honey and pollen.
Greggia. (Greggia comparum Gray.) Confined largely to west Texas. Blooms near San Antonio in February. Yields some honey, but pollen is important for early brood rearing.
Turnip. (Brassica rapa L.) Yields honey and pollen.
Black mustard. (Brassica ***** (L.) Loch.) Scatteringly throughout Texas. Bees work on it busily, but its status as a bee forage plant has not been determined. June and July.
Port viae a grandiflora Hook. Grown in experimental plats at College Station. Honey yield good owing to the extended blooming period from June till frost. Pollen is highly colored.
Salt cedar. (Tamarix gallka L.) Common in the Gulf coast country. Several trees cultivated at College Station bloom from May to June.
Fringed Poppy-mallow. (Callirhoc digit at a Nutt.) A common plant yielding honey and pollen in small quantities. An excellent pollen plant at College Station.
Spanish Apple. (Malvaviscus drummondii Torr. and Gray.) Common along the Comal and Guadalupe rivers near New Braunfels. Bees visit it, but in that section is not an important honey plant.
Shrubby althea. (Hibiscus syriacus L.) An ornamental plant in parks and gardens. Bees work busily on it, but the plants are few. Yields honey and pollen; blooms from May and June to fall.
Sida spinosa L. A common plant blooming during the summer. Honey and pollen yield light, but valuable during dearth.
Sida angustifolia Lam. In dry soils throughout southern Texas blooming from spring to fall. Yields honey and pollen.
Cotton. (Gossypium herbaeeum L.) Yielding a strong steady flow of white honey during the entire blooming period from June to frost. The main source of honey throughout the cotton section. The honey is furnished by nectar glands of leaves, bracts, blossoms and bolls.
American linden. (Tilia americana L.) Occurs sparingly throughout Texas as far west as San Antonio. A heavy yielder of fine honey.
Large-flowered caltrop. (Tribulus cistoides L.) Mr. L. Scholl reports this plant from Hunter as a good honey and pollen yielder, but flowers close at noon. April to August.
Greater Caltrop. (Kallstroemia maxima (L.) T. and G.) Common throughout southern and western Texas; a good honey and pollen plant in time of dearth.
Yellow wood sorrel. (Oxalis stricta L.) In open woodlands throughout Texas, blooming during summer, but not abundant enough to be important bee forage.
Prickly ash. (Xanthoxylon clava-hercules L.) Known as toothache tree and sea-ash. A common shrub in woodland prairies, blooming April 15 to June. A good honey and pollen plant.
Hop tree. (Ptelia trifoliata L.) In low woodlands throughout southern and western Texas. Where abundant the plant is a good honey yielder during favorable seasons. May to July.
Hardy orange. (Citrus trifoliata L.) Until recently this plant has been scarce in Texas, having been planted principally for hedges. With the development of the citrus industry the demand for hardy deciduous stock to enable the commercial orange tree to withstand a lower temperature has caused a rapid increase of this species. It blooms March 15 to 25; during this time bees work on it busily, obtaining a fair quantity of honey for early brood rearing.
Tree of Heaven. (Ailanthus glandulosa Desf.) This is recorded from Hunter as follows: Cultivated for shade. Honey yield fair in good seasons, also pollen. There are also nectar glands on leaf blades. April.
Umbrella china tree. (Melia azedarach L.) A common shade tree in central and southern Texas. It yields honey which helps early brood rearing in February and March.
Possum Haw. (Ilex decidua Walt.) Also known as Youpon and Bearberry. Lowlands in southern and central Texas west to the semiarid country. Blooms between March and May. Valuable for early brood rearing.
Youpon. (Ilex earoliniana Trelease.) Southern Texas westward to San Antonio. March and April, helping early brood.
Brazil wood, Log wood. (Condalia arborata Hook.) Central and western Texas. A good honey plant at College Station; some pollen. July and August.
Colubrina texensis Gray. On dry soils from the Colorado River west and south. Honey yield good; some pollen. Plants too scarce for surplus. April.
Rattan vine. (Berchemia scandens Trelease.) Along ravines and in lowlands; blooms April 15 to 25, giving a good surplus in favorable seasons, but the honey is dark amber.
Common grape vines. Good for pollen. April.
Mountain grape. (Vitis monticola Buckley.) Hilly limestone regions of western Texas. Honey yield fair: pollen valuable for early brood rearing. March.
Cow itch. (Cissus incisa Desmoid.) On uncultivated ground from the Colorado River westward. April to August, yielding surplus where plentiful.
Soap berry, Wild china. (Sapindus marginatus Willd.) Creek bottoms throughout southern and western Texas. An evergreen shrub, blooming in April and May. yielding heavy surplus where the plants are abundant.
Balloon vine. (Cardiospermum halicacabum L.) Throughout central, southern and western Texas. Honey yield good, but plants are scarce.
Mexican buckeye. (Vngnadia speciosa Endl.) In mountainous woodlands and on rocky hillsides throughout southern, central and western Texas. Honey yield important as it blooms during July dearth, but the plants are not plentiful.
Green Sumach. (Rhus viviens Lindh.) In rocky country west of Colorado River. Bees work on it during dearth. Blooms as late as October.
Rhus sp. A small shrubby tree on rocky hillsides and on woodland prairies. Bee-keepers report it a good honey plant, giving surplus in favorable seasons, depending upon rains. August.
Blue bonnet. (Lupinus subcarnosus Hook.) Southern, central and western Texas on prairies and on open woodlands. The honey and pollen yield is good; the pollen is of a bright orange color. March and April.
Red clover. (Trifolium pratense L.) An attempt was made to grow red clover with a view of determining the ability of the five races of bees to secure honey, notwithstanding the deep corollas. We have no evidence that any of the strains of bees are able to obtain honey, w7hile the plants did not prosper owing to the dry climate.
Alfalfa.. (Medicago saliva L.) Is extensively cultivated for hay in humid and semi-arid Texas. We know that it is a valuable honey plant in irrigated sections of Colorado and New Mexico, but there is considerable difference of opinion as to its value in unirrigated sections of Texas. In the great honey belt of southwest Texas it appears to be no preferred plant. We have a note on record from Mr. E. Scholl, formerly assistant to the writer, when State Entomologist of Texas, which states that large numbers of bees were seen on alfalfa at New Braunfels during June, 1907. During his work as deputy foul brood inspector he reports alfalfa “a good thing” in north Texas. In the Brazos River bottom where bees were near alfalfa we were unable to ascertain the importance of alfalfa as a honey plant because bees preferred other blossoms occurring during alfalfa bloom. Where bees work on it, the honey yield is fair during early summer and fall. On July 12 Mr. Will Atchley, one of the most successful apiculturists of Texas, presented the writer with a jar of alfalfa honey from Beeville, the quality of which was fully equal to the Colorado product.
Medick. Burr clover. (Medicago denticulata Willd.) Abundant at College Station during spring. While it yields honey sparingly during early summer, it comes into bloom at a time when honey flora is scarce, and when bees must depend on honey gathered from mis
cellaneous sources. It disappears with the approach of hot weather and the advance of Bermuda grass.
White sweet clover. (Melilotus alba Seso.) Sparingly scattered along railroad tracks and in waste places. It is a good yielder of a fine quality of honey. The plants cultivated in the experimental plats at the A. & M. apiary are doing well each season. Seeds scattered broadcast in waste grounds germinated well, but the young plants were seriously handicapped by the ever-present and persistent Bermuda grass. -Mr. C. S. Phillips of Waco, Texas, stated to the writer that sweet clover sown by him along the H. & T. C. Railroad near Waco appeared to hold its own. The plants bloom from June to fall. Owing to its honey yield white sweet clover should be sown for honey producing purposes. It grows in soils containing lime and although cattle treat it with skepticism when first introduced to it, owing to the characteristic odor, they soon learn to eat it. In cultivated land and where Bermuda grass is absent the plant prospers. No doubt every bee-keeper could utilize it to supplement the honey flow during a season of dearth. The writer has observed this plant in several latitudes between the Rio Grande River and northern New England where “bees roared on it.”
Yellow sweet clover. (Melilotus officinalis (L.) Lam). Occurs sparingly, escaped. Bee-men contend that yellow sweet clover is earlier and superior to white sweet clover. It should be cultivated on waste lands and the poorer soils. May to fall.
Eysenhardtia. (Eysenhardtia amorphoides H. B. K.) Also known as rock brush. On light soils of woodlands and open prairies throughout southern and western Texas. Yields abundant honey of a fine quality. March to May after heavy rains.
Black locust. (Robinia pseudacacia L.) Cultivated occasionally on lawns. During March and April the bees work on it abundantly, obtaining a fair quantity of honey, provided the weather is not too cold.
Mexican ground plum. (Astragalus americanus A. D. C.) Open prairies of Texas, yielding honey abundantly, principally during June. It is injured by drouth.
White clover. (Trifolium repens L.) Sparingly on roadsides and lawns. It is well known as one of the main sources in states north of Texas. Several attempts to grow it at College Station proved failures owing to dry climate.
Cow pea. (Vigna sp.) Cultivated for forage and soil improvement. July and August. Yields a good quantity of light-colored honey of fair quality. It is one of the plants utilized at the experimental apiary for bridging the bees from spring flora to horse mint and cotton, but the repeated cold waves during the spring of 1907 severely handicapped its honey yielding power.
Neptunia. (Neptunia lutea Benth.) Sparingly, eastern and southern Texas along the Rio Grande as far north as Laredo. Pollen during May.
Red bud, Judas tree. (Cercis canadensis L.) Our only honeyproducing records are from Comal County, where it blooms from March 1 to April 15. Good honey plant, helping early brood.
Sensitive briar. (Schrankia angustata Torr. and Gray.) Open prairies west of San Antonio. Honey yield not important owing to the scarcity of the plant, yielding pollen. April to September.
Cassia. (Cassia longifolia Car.) In damp sandy places; visited frequently by bees.
Mesquite, Screw bean. (Prosopis juliflora D. C.) Widely distributed in southern and western Texas. While occurring sparingly everywhere in Texas, the mesquite belt proper extends from the Rio Grande River north to the northern tier of counties of the Pan Handle, between 98 and 101 meridians, and along the valleys of the Rio Grande, Pecos and Canadian rivers. Main source in State. Honey light colored. April and again in June.
Honey locust. (Gleditchia triacanthos L.) Sparingly wild and in cultivation. Heavy yielder at College Station, but bloom extends from April 15 to 25 only.
Garden pea. (Pisum sativum L.) Yields some honey and pollen.
Retama. (Parkinsonia aculeata L.) Low sandy soils, southern and western Texas. May to September. Valuable in dearth.
Albizzia. (Albizzia julibrissin Durazz.) On campus, College Station; honey yield fair. May to July. Long stamens handicap bees.
Huajilla, “Wahea.” (Acacia berlandierei Benth.) Solid masses on dry and rocky hills from the Nueces to the Rio Grande and Devils rivers; at its best in Uvalde and adjoining counties. Heavy honey yielder; best honey in State and main surplus in southwest Texas.
Cat claw. (Acacia gregii Gray.) Also known as devil’s claw and Paradise flower. On dry, rocky soil throughout southwest Texas. One of the main yielders of fine honey. April and again in June.
Texas cat claw. (Acacia wrightii Benth.) Throughout southwest Texas; one of the main yielders of fine honey. April.
Round-flowered cat claw. (Acacia roemeriana Schlecht.) Widely distributed over southwest Texas, yielding a heavy flow of fine honey during April and May. Less abundant than preceding species.
Acacia. (Acacia amentaceae D. C.) Abundant throughout southwest Texas on prairies. Not very important for honey, but an excellent pollen plant in early summer when bee forage is scarce.
Huisaehe. (Acacia farnesiana Willd.) Abundant from San Antonio southward throughout the Gulf coast country. A good honey yielder and excellent for stimulating early brood. Yields pollen. February, March and April.
Plum. (Prunus domestica L.) Honey yield good. Valuable for early brood. February to March.
Wild plum. (Prunus cerasus L.) Abundant in waste places throughout the humid sections. February to March. Valuable for early brood.
Bridal wreath. (Spircea virginiana Britt.) Ornamental shrub; helps early brood.
Dewberry. (Rubus trivialis Mx.) Wild low bush blackberry. Yields honey and pollen in April. Widely distributed.
Hawthorne, White thorn. (Crataegus arborescens Ell.) Moist ground southern and western Texas west to Colorado River. Good honey and pollen plant. April.
Rose. Blooms throughout season. Good for pollen.
Apple. (Malus malus (L.) Britt.) Scarce. Yields honey March 15 to April 10. Helps early brood.
Peach. (Amygdalis persica L.) Widely cultivated. Valuable in building up colonies in spring. February to April.
Evening primrose. (Jussiaea diffusa Forskl.) Wet places eastern and central Texas. June to middle of August, and where abundant it is very important during drouth.
Gaura filiformis Small. Sandy soils of central Texas, yielding surplus in seasons of sufficient rain.
Musk melon. (Cucumis melo L.) Widely cultivated. Good honey and pollen plant. Early summer to fall.
Prickly pear. (Opuntia engelmannii Salm. and Dyek.) Common, southwestern Texas. Heavy honey yielder. sometimes giving surplus. Bee-keepers report that when honey is first stored it is of a rank flavor. May to June.
Dogwood. (Cornus asperifolia Mx.) Sparingly in low lands, eastern and central Texas. Favorite with bees and honey yield good, but not very heavy. March to April.
Elder. (Sambucus canadensis Linn.) Sparingly in moist places throughout Texas; a good honey plant. April and May.
Coral berry. (Symphoricarpas symphoricarpos L.) Along wooded streams near College Station. Blooms July to September and is a good honey plant.
Cucumber. (Cucumis sativus L.) Cultivated. Good honey plant, but scarce and of short duration.
Pumpkin. (Cucumis pepo L.) A better pollen than honey plant. May to June.
Watermelon. (Citrullus citrullus (L.) Karst.) A good honey and pollen plant; at its best on dewy mornings. Blooming period extends over the greater portion of the summer until frost.
Wild gourd. (Cucurbita foetidissima H. B. K.) Scatteringly, southern and western Texas. Honey flow light; better for pollen. April to July.
Black haw. (Viburnum rufotomentosum Small.) Woodlands of central and western Texas. Good honey yielder early in season and valuable for early brood.
Bush honeysuckle. (Lonicera fragrantissima Lindel.) A small bush cultivated on the campus at College Station. Earliest honey yielder of the locality, furnishing honey as early as January. Valuable for early brood in mild winters.
White-flowered honeysuckle. (Lonicera albiflora.) Recorded from Hunter, Texas, blooming from May to July. A good honey plant but scarce.
Houstonia angustifolia Mx. Dry soils throughout Texas. May to July. Bees work well on it, but plants are scarce.
Button weed. (Diodia teres Walt.) Low sandy soils of Texas. Not a heavy yielder, but important in July and August where horsemint and cotton is not heavy.
Button bush. (Cephalanthus occidentalis L.) In moist soils throughout Texas. Bees work on it during July.
Goldenrod. (Solidago spp.) Throughout Texas. Abundant in late fall, but unimportant where broom and bitter weed is abundant.
Roman wormwood. (Ambrosia artemisiifolia L.) Common on dry uplands, yielding pollen.
Tall ragweed. (Ambrosia aptera D. C.) Low soils throughout southern and western Texas. July and August, yielding adhesive pollen.
Great ragweed. (Ambrosia trifida L.) Moist land, central and eastern Texas. July and August. Good for pollen.
****le burr. (Xanthium canadense Mill.) Common in river bottoms, yielding pollen in September and October.
Common sunflower. (Helianthus annuus L.) Common in waste fields. Good honey yield, but strong flavored. Yields propolis.
Sneeze weed. Bitter weed. (Helenium tenuifolium Nutt.) Common in open waste places of eastern and central Texas. Yields honey and pollen. The honey is bitter as quinine, but owing to its longcontinued blooming period from June to frost, it is an important plant for winter stores.
Marigold. (Gaillardiu pulchella Fang.) Common throughout Texas. Yields surplus. Honey dark amber. May to June.
Dandelion. (Taraxicum officinale Weber.) Common. Yields some honey of strong flavor.
Blue thistle. (Cnicus altissimus Willd.) West to Guadalupe River. July and August. Bees work on it heavily at times.
Parthenium. (Parthenium hysterophorus L.) In waste places throughout Texas. April till frost, yielding honey and white pollen.
Broom weed. (Gutierrezia texana T. & G.) Open prairies throughout Texas. Honey dark and of strong flavor. Important for winter stores. September and October.
Texas persimmon. (Diospyros texana Schule.) Woodlands and ravines, southern and central Texas. Good honey yielder. April and June.
Common persimmon. (Diospyros virginiana L.) West to Colorado River. A good honey plant but scarce. Blooms a little earlier than D. texana.
Gum elastic. (Bumelia languinosa Pers.) Woodlands, eastern and southern Texas. Good honey plant, but blooming period short. June 25 to 30.
Privet. (Ligustrum vulgare L.) A good honey plant, but flowers scarce owing to annual trimming.
Milkweed. (Asclepias sp.) Good honey plant at Beeville, but pollen attaches to bee’s feet and cripples them.
Dense-flowered Phacelia. (Phacelia conjesta Hook.) Common, blooming April to June. Some honey. P. glabra yields some honey.
Borage. (Borage officinalis L.) Cultivated at College Station. A good honey plant in June. Stalks die during drouth, but revive and bloom again later in season.
Morning glory. (Ipomoea caroliniaita Prush.) Throughout eastern, central and southern Texas, blooming during summer, yielding a light flow of honey and pollen.
Night shade. (Solanum rostratvm Duval.) Yields some honey and pollen from May to October.
Trumpet creeper. (Campsis radicans L.) Humid sections of Texas. Honey yield light; pollen from external nectar glands and stems of flowers.
Fog fruit. (Lippia nodiflora L.) Honey yield light during July. White brush. (Lippia ligustrina Britt.) Abundant in southwest
Texas. Blooms May to September, yielding a heavy honey flow of fine quality.
French Mulberry. (Callicarpa americana L.) Abundant in rich soils of central and southern Texas, yielding honey.
Salvia. (Salvia roemeriana Sch.) Yields honey during summer in western Texas, but bees are handicapped by deep corollas.
Salvia azurea Lam. Throughout Texas, but corollas very deep. Visited by bumblebees. April to October.
Lantana. (Lantana camara L.) Yields some honey. April to October.
Virginia crownbeard. (Verbena virginica L.) In rich wooded lowlands of central, southern and western Texas. October. A heavy yielder of fine honey.
Blue vervain. (Verbena officinalis.) Throughout Texas. April to August, yielding a light honey flow through the season.
Catnip. (Nepeta cataria L.) Cultivated in the experimental plats at the apiary at College Station in 1904. The plants did not prosper; those that bloomed were visited by bees.
Wild bergamot. (Monarda fistulosa L.) Sparingly on dry soils of Texas. May to July. An excellent honey plant.
Horsemint. (Monarda clinopodioides Gray.) Waste lands of eastern and southern Texas. May 20 to June 20; an excellent honey plant, being one of the main yielders. the honey comparing favorably with that of basswood.
Horsemint. (Monarda punctata L.) Waste prairies, eastern and southern Texas. Abundant along railroad tracks; one of the main honey plants. May to July.
Common hoarhound. (Morrubium vulgare L.) Throughout the State; a good yielder of a dark amber-colored honey from February to mid-summer.
Drummond’s skullcap. (Scutellaria drummondii Benth.) Throughout Texas; a good honey yielder in April and May.
Common pigweed. (Amaranthus retroflexus L.) Throughout Texas. Yields some honey and pollen July to September.
Spiny amaranth. (Amaranthus spinosus L.) Bees visit it, obtaining a small amount of pollen. August.
Buckwheat. (Fagopyrwm fagopyrum (L.) Karst.) Cultivated. Our records are from College Station. Yields fair quantities of honey on dewy mornings, but is handicapped in dry atmosphere. We found it a very good plant to bridge dearths.
Mistletoe. (Phoradendron flavescens (Pursh) Nutt.) A parasitic plant, growing on oak, elm, hackberry, and mesquite. Blooms from December to February. A good honey and pollen plant.
Spurge. (Euphorbia marginata Pursh.) Low lands of western Texas, yielding honey during summer and fall.
Sonora eroton. (Croton sonorce Torr.) Observed in Llano and Comal counties. Although honey flow is light, it comes during the July and August dearths.
Goat weed. (Croton capitatus Mx.) Central and southern Texas. Not important in bee sections, but valuable where the honey flora is scarce. At College Station it is a good pollen plant during August.
Texas croton. (Croton texensis Muell.) Western Texas. A light honey yielder during summer from June to August.
One seeded croton. (Croton monanthogynus Michx.) Central and southern Texas. May to June. Honey yield fair.
Castor-oil plant. (Ricihus communis L.) Cultivated throughout State; sparingly escaped. Honey and pollen yield good. Nectar glands at base of leaf. March and April.
American elm. (Vlmus amcricana L.) Low woodlands of central Texas. Good honey and pollen plant, sometimes yielding surplus. The honey is amber and characteristically aromatic. August to September. Also known as “wahoo.” (
Granjena. (Celtis pallida Torr.) Bee-keepers report it an important plant. We have no other records.
Hackberry. (Celtis mississippievsis Bosc.) Common in central Texas. Fair honey yielder and good for pollen early in the season.
Hackberry. (Celtis occidentalis L.) Cultivated for shade throughout Texas. Occurs in ravine at College Station. Fair honey plant and good pollen yielder. Valuable for early brood.
Osage orange. (Toxylon pomiferum Buf.) Planted for hedges in humid sections. April. Yields honey but plants are scarce.
Hickory. (Hicoria alba L.) Common in sandy lowlands, yielding some honey and pollen in March.
Pecan. (Hicoria pecan Britt.) Cultivated and wild. Good for pollen. March.
Post oak. (Quercus minor Sarg.) Sandy soils, eastern and central Texas. Its quantities of pollen during March and April make it a valuable plant for early brood.
Black jack. Barren oak. (Quercus marylandica Muench.) In post oak woods. Yields pollen in early spring.
Live oak. (Quercus virginiana Mill.) Southern and western Texas. A good honey plant for early brood in March. Honey dark colored.
Red oak. (Quercus rubra L.) Westward to San Antonio. Yields pollen in March. Trees scarce.
Spanish oak. Pin oak. (Quercus palustris Duroi.) West to San Antonio. A good honey and pollen plant. Valuable for early brood.
Water oak. (Quercus aquatica Walt.) Moist soils, eastern and central Texas west as far as Austin. Pollen in early spring, but the plant occurs sparingly.
Black willow. (Salix ***** March.) Wet places. A good honey and pollen plant. Valuable for early brood. February to April.
Cotton wood. (Populus deltoides Marsh.) Low lands everywhere. Fair honey plant, but a better pollen yielder for early brood. March.
Cat briar. (Smilax bonu-nox L.) Everywhere. Grows in thickets, yielding honey, but bloom of short duration. April 10 to 25.
Virginia spiderwort. (Tradescantia gigantea Rose.) Scatteringly on prairies. Yields some pollen for early brood.
Sorghum. (Sorghum vulgare Pers.) Cultivated for forage and hay. Yields honey, but it is particularly valuable for the abundance of pollen during June.
Indian corn. (Zea mats L.) Valuable pollen plant from May to June.
Silver berry. (Elaeagnus argentia Pursh.) Cultivated for ornamental purposes at College Station. The honey from the nectar glands runs down the long corollas where the bees can get it. Blooms in spring and fall.
Sweet olive. (Elaeagnus angustifolia L.) One bush at College Station. Honey yield good. April.
Firmiana platinifolia (L.) R. Br. Ornamental at College Station. Heavy honey yielder from May 10 to June 15.
Crepe myrtle (Lagerstroemia indica L.) Cultivated. Blooms June to October, bees working heavily at intervals.
While, upon examining the list of honey plants, it will be noticed that the heavy yielders are few, one or more species occur in all parts of the State. Bee-keeping can be carried on only where the honey flow is continuous when the bees are active. The many minor plants here recorded are of great value in keeping colonies in good condition during the intervals between the surplus yielders. In sections where dearths occur they may be bridged by cultivated species, provided the conditions of the locality are known so that the work can be planned with approximate accuracy. A great field is open in Texas for the distribution of honey plants for the purpose of producing a continual honey flow in sections where the bee-keeping industry is at present handicapped by dearths. By close observation bee-keepers should soon learn what plants could be utilized for this purpose, employing either cultivated species or wild plants obtained from seed scattered in waste places.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Ya got me on that Clyde. Best I could come up with was front row seats to the annual Wustfest in New Braunfels.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

Hopefully you made it to Gruene Hall too, a little north of New Braunsfels.
One of my all time favorite places. My kind of place, you could say.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Can't say that I ever did. Just missed out by a few years on the "best" that LaGrange had to offer.
Did make it to Mickey Gilley's shortly after the movie Urban Cowboy came out. Not the same kind of dance hall, at all.

Texas, puleease tell me that "take a walk on the wild side" is not the next line of your bees' song.


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## jsterling (Apr 30, 2017)

A pretty good feed for your friend with the hives that need feed is 7 parts sugar 3 parts ultra bee 1 part syrup.
This is for inside the hive. SHB like it too so when they get bad don't put very much at a time.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

JWPalmer said:


> Just missed out by a few years on the "best" that LaGrange had to offer.


Maybe, in retrospect, you're glad you did.


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## TexasFreedom (Feb 25, 2016)

jsterling said:


> A pretty good feed for your friend with the hives that need feed is 7 parts sugar 3 parts ultra bee 1 part syrup.
> This is for inside the hive. SHB like it too so when they get bad don't put very much at a time.


Please clarify...
'1 part syrup'?

At first I thought this was a liquid, but as I read it 4 times, I think you mean basically a dry mix. 7 cups sugar, 3 cups ultrabee, and 1 cup (by syrup, 1:1 sugar water?). Note that he did mention SHB in one of the struggling hives. So this might not be the best thing for him right now. Feeding was my first priority. I gave him some options for addressing SHB, I'll follow up.

Clyde, yup, you've got the right place. Lockhart, the official BBQ capital of Texas. Luling, smells like money (oil rigs).

JW, nah. But they did have a dedication for jsterling: "you put the lime in the coconut and shake it all up". And seeing the lost list from Clyde (some of my girls can read!), they were humming the theme song from the TV show "Good times". Finally, then have a goodbye song for Al Gore and his global climate stuff: "Hit the road, Jack, and don't you talk back no more no more NO MORE NO MORE!" (they didn't like the cold front)


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## jsterling (Apr 30, 2017)

Yes 1:1 syrup. It makes a damp type mix to put on a piece of news paper. I use it in the early spring in nucs and in mating nucs also but I can only put a small amount that they can eat quickly because of the shb.


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## TexasFreedom (Feb 25, 2016)

I think bees would be so much easier if they were 90% drones. Males are easy: priorities are 1)sex 2)food 3)sports.

OK, I tried the 7:3:1 mix. Can't call it 'damp', it was more like large grains of sand. The bees were interested, but not really. I left 1/2 cup out for open feeding, they took maybe 1/2 of it. I put some on top in some hives. I also put some of the pro-bee paddy out in the open feeder. I also tried some plain ultra bee powder on top in some hives. Maybe it's because of the cooler weather, but none of the hives really went after it. In fact didn't even touch it. Call it 'open buffet' everywhere. Not really much interest in any of it.

I put out more of the ultraBee just in the open feeder, they were on it like (insert favorite expression here). I had also set aside a 2-frame feeder that had some leftover sugar water a few days ago, and they were still all over it.

So I think I'm dealing with various factors. Minimal in-hive movement due to weather (50's today?). Any out-of-hive food requires immediate yield (easy to pick up powder or drinkable sugar water), no interest in 'working food' like having to chew up the paddies or larger 7:3:1 particles.

Lazy beekeeper. Lazy bees! Oh wait, that sounds bad. How about this: selective beekeeper, selective bees. Yeah, I like that better as I sit in my recliner...


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## TexasFreedom (Feb 25, 2016)

duplicate post...


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## jsterling (Apr 30, 2017)

Yea, the mix is more for in hive when the weather won't let them forage. You can ajust the ultrabee for different results. I will add a little more when its time for brooding up and its going to be bad weather for a few days.


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## TexasFreedom (Feb 25, 2016)

This should be an interesting week. Today/tomorrow highs around 60, Tuesday the 'high' will be 34F. Then slowly warm up the rest of the week. I'll have to look in the hives next weekend to see what in-hive feed has been taken up.

I forgot I also had some pro-health (sugar-water additive). For chuckles, I mixed a gallon of 1:1 and put 3 tablespoons in it. Also gave them some ultra bee (separate but right next to the liquid feeder).

I think pro-health (Mann Lake?) is really vodka for bees. I think the party started at the drink bar. Then they 'fell over' into the ultrabee, rolling around in it. I heard at least 600 times "help, I can't stand up" followed by laughter.

They really liked the pro-health. Only minus was that I touched it with my finger, and all day every time I moved my hand I got a whiff of it (essential oils... potent stuff). Funny though, the 7:3:1 mix is still sitting there, maybe 20% of it. They love ultrabee alone but not blended. Apparently even drunk it wasn't appealing.

Any guidance on feeding pro-health right now? I know it talks about being helpful when brooding up, but is there motives for including it now? Other than the humor of watching them. And yes, they were interested in my stinky finger.

Did you know that there is a song called "Stinky Drinking"? https://sonichits.com/artist/Stinky_Finger . Track 11. It's not good. Sorry, that's not fair. It's absolutely horrible as far as a song goes. OK, let me try again. I know I heard them (with a strong slur) singing "Don't Worry.... Bee Happy". I cannot confirm or deny if they were life or pre-recorded.


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

Bees were flying heavy (volume and pollen loads) on Saturday when we had a warm day. I do not know where they were getting it. I put some pollen sub in a coffee can under the eves and some in the bird feeder. They found the bird feeder on Sunday and the ½ cup was pretty much gone in short order so I loaded it up. There was about 40 bees on it all afternoon and by the look of the constant dust cloud -I think they put as much airborne and taken back to the hive. Maybe I will make about 3 feeders. Forecast is back to low 40’s and rain for the week.


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## TexasFreedom (Feb 25, 2016)

A question on behavior.

I put out some pollen today & was watching them. Quite a few bees were standing there, an inch or 3 from the pollen, abdomen high in the air & pulsating. No wing beating (so not trying to aerate the scent?). Just pulsating abdomen. Out and in, over and over.

It seemed to be behavior to put a homing scent in the air to find the pollen, but I would have expected lots of wing fanning to accompany that. What was I seeing?

The only thing really missing were a bunch of drones singing "I like big b*tts and I cannot lie"...


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## Bobjones (Nov 24, 2020)

TexasFreedom said:


> We had a nice warm day down here in TX, and the bees were all over the chicken feeders.
> 
> Had the same issue last year, the chickens won't go near their feeders. I've got 3 'flocks' so multiple feeders for each group. The feeders inside a 'darker' coop didn't have bees, but any out in the open did.
> 
> ...


 I assumed that they were going after the sorghum seeds in the chicken scratch, so I put out sugar water, molasses, etc. They weren't interested in the sweets at all. Now I know.🤔


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## roseywilly (Sep 10, 2020)

They are all over this stuff.
Literally rolling around in the granules.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

There is no pollen available. They are gathering the dust as pollen.


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## Tigger19687 (Dec 27, 2014)

For the life of me I can't remember why bees do this, there IS something in there they like, not just gathering dust as pollen.
It was in my chicken forum when I had hens a few years ago. 
But there IS a reason they do it


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## username00101 (Apr 17, 2019)

The bees get into some bizarre things on warm winter days, when temps are much warmer than normal.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Of course there is reason they do it. Protein.


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## Tigger19687 (Dec 27, 2014)

JWPalmer said:


> Of course there is reason they do it. Protein.


Funny you posted this, I was just over at my Chicken site and looked it up. Yes the protein in the feed.
Some feeds are higher protein then others.


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

TexasFreedom said:


> A question on behavior.
> 
> I put out some pollen today & was watching them. Quite a few bees were standing there, an inch or 3 from the pollen, abdomen high in the air & pulsating. No wing beating (so not trying to aerate the scent?). Just pulsating abdomen. Out and in, over and over.
> 
> ...


when they are "pulsating" they are warming up, internal shivering, they need like 85 degree internal temp to fly, as well flying cools them so they often need to rewarm when they land.

GG


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## username00101 (Apr 17, 2019)

Seen them in 16%, and they zero in on chicken feed like it's pollen substitute.

Saw dust on the other hand.....💪


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## vicyclefive (Jan 16, 2021)

The bees are not actually eating the chicken feed or grains, but collecting pollen, minerals, dust and yeast.


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## vicyclefive (Jan 16, 2021)

Honey bees feed on flower nectar, which they take back to their hive and transfer into honeycomb. This nectar is evaporated into honey, and once honey they cover it with a wax lid. This honey is the bees only source of carbohydrates in the winter after the flowers have died.


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## LAlldredge (Aug 16, 2018)

Feed them what they are looking for. UltraBee dry pollen sub in open feeding. This shouldn’t set off any robbing. My setup is as basic as it gets. Paper grocery bag with a large U cut out the top and laid on the ground near the hives with a layer of UltraBee. Wildly entertaining. Placed out in February and used as a door stop the rest of the year.


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## Tigger19687 (Dec 27, 2014)

vicyclefive said:


> Honey bees feed on flower nectar, which they take back to their hive and transfer into honeycomb. This nectar is evaporated into honey, and once honey they cover it with a wax lid. This honey is the bees only source of carbohydrates in the winter after the flowers have died.


🤦‍♂️


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

My eyesight is not so good. That is a figure of someone slapping their forehead?


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## Tigger19687 (Dec 27, 2014)

JWPalmer said:


> My eyesight is not so good. That is a figure of someone slapping their forehead?


Yes


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I've only seen them do it in a pollen dearth. In fact that is one of the symptoms of a pollen dearth which leads me to feeding pollen.


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## Surviving Our Bees (Feb 14, 2021)

Temps will be in the mid 50s next week...

Wonder if natural pollen is available yet.

Assuming NO IT IS NOT because snow still covers the ground.


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