# Bees and Skunks: what is fact and what is folklore?



## pgayle (Jan 27, 2008)

I have been told since I first started beekeeping that the skunks chew the bees, suck out the sweetness, and spit them out, leaving the little "dip wads" in front of the colony. 

One of my friends is a new beekeeper. He is also a world-class tracker. I left some "skunk wads" on his desk last week without comment. He identified it as skunk droppings. He had no doubt about which end of the skunk they came out of. He posted it on some world-class tracking forum. The trackers were intrigued with the skunk's learned behavior as to luring the bees out of the colony at night. They had never heard of this. On the other hand, they were quite sure that the wads were skunk droppings. Trackers know their S***! 

Michael Bush says the same thing as what I have always been told. 
http://www.bushfarms.com/beespests.htm

Other good reference say it's poop:
http://beeinformed.org/?attachment_id=4157

Is this just beekeeping folklore? There is no question that the skunks lure the bees out and eat them. But where do the bee remains go from there? 

There are a lot of things that I have had to unlearn over the years that are just not true. I am open to correction as to whether they spit them out or not. I would like to see some actual documentation one way or the other.


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## AR Beekeeper (Sep 25, 2008)

Around my hives it is always bee remains in piles of scat.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

the 'dip wads' i find are clearly chewed up bees that were spit out by the skunk right there at the hive and they have obviously not passed through the skunk's digestive track. next time you find one pick it apart and if the bee parts are still intact there's your proof it hasn't been digested. if you are still in doubt give it a good smell.


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

Scratch, Slurp, and Swallow in the west............. Any way you look at it the bottom line is less bees in the hive. Traps and Eggs filled with EG as will as an occasional blast of a shotgun are the best remedies to eliminate the stripped vandals.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

AR Beekeeper said:


> Around my hives it is always bee remains in piles of scat.


never found that, but sounds like a different scenario. the dip wads i find are on the ground just below the hive entrances, and they look just like a wad of spent chewing tobacco.


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## BEESERIOUS (Feb 25, 2009)

H4A, what's EG?


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

If the 'bee remains' under discussion are really skunk *poop*, why are they at/around the hives? Does a skunk's digestive system _really _work that fast? :s 

It seems unlikely that a skunk could poop out the bee remains in the same visit as when they eat those particular bees. And it also seems _unlikely _that the skunk would make a point of returning to the apiary just to poop out bee remains.  So if that is actually skunk _poop _with bee remains, that skunk would have to eat a _lot _of bees to be able to deposit feces with bee parts back in the apiary.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

Skunks gorge on bees, that is a well known fact. If you don't choose to believe that those cute little striped kitties are decimating your hives, feel free to continue. Bees eating a pound of bees out of your hive each night EACH will have a noticeable effect. When the kitties come to my yards, they die as soon as I discover them. You can see muddy little footprints and scratch marks on the landing boards.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

opossums will do the same thing, i find them in my traps more often than skunks.


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## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

squarepeg said:


> opossums will do the same thing, i find them in my traps more often than skunks.


Who empties the trap when you catch a skunk.


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## jrhoto (Mar 2, 2009)

If you don't want to shoot them or empty traps put rolled up chicken wire and tack strips in front of your hives this will deter them. Thy are more destructive than you might think.

John
poor valley bee farm


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

If you're sick and tired of skunks, one thing you should consider is STOP SHOOTING COYOTES!!!
We have lived here for 24 years and in that time we have seen exactly one skunk on our property.
We found it torn limb from limb in the front field one morning.
We have zero skunks here.
What we do have is a rather large population of coyotes.
It is not uncommon for visitors to see 2 or 3 of them and they always ask, "do you shoot them?"
Of course we don't!! We are beekeepers. They keep skunks away.
I have a friend about 10 miles from here that shoots everything that moves on his property.
He has skunks coming out of his ears!
The only thing I shoot is gophers, California ground squirrels, and crows.
I feed all of them to the coyotes! 
I would shoot skunks, but we don't have any.


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## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

HarryVanderpool said:


> If you're sick and tired of skunks, one thing you should consider is STOP SHOOTING COYOTES!!!
> We have lived here for 24 years and in that time we have seen exactly one skunk on our property.
> We found it torn limb from limb in the front field one morning.
> We have zero skunks here.
> ...


See if you shooter friend would be willing to export some coyotes. They are in the areas around Charlotte but we don't seem to have them here. We are overpopulated with deer and I have heard that coyotes have a taste for bambi.


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## AR Beekeeper (Sep 25, 2008)

Fellows, the scat/bee remains are from the bees the skunk ate the night before. I have a bee yard that has a skunk den 20 yard from it and I have watched the skunks at the hives. I have never had to shoot any of the skunks, the autos on the highway always do the job for me.


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## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

AR Beekeeper said:


> Fellows, the scat/bee remains are from the bees the skunk ate the night before. I have a bee yard that has a skunk den 20 yard from it and I have watched the skunks at the hives. I have never had to shoot any of the skunks, the autos on the highway always do the job for me.


Are you the one who wrote the song about "the dead skunk in the middle of the road"?


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## AR Beekeeper (Sep 25, 2008)

No, but I can verify that they do stink to high heaven. I have had more actual damage done to my bees by squirrels more than any other animal, they chew the legs of stands and drop a colony that then is robbed before I find it.

You know, now that I think about it, I could be mistaken about the scat. It looked like scat, it smelled like scat, but I failed to taste it!


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

This is an easy one....does it taste digested?


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## AR Beekeeper (Sep 25, 2008)

I'm not sure, I was an enforcement officer. It was the biologist that were always tasting it, and all they said was "It tastes like scat."


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## Tim KS (May 9, 2014)

HarryVanderpool said:


> If you're sick and tired of skunks, one thing you should consider is STOP SHOOTING COYOTES!!!
> We have lived here for 24 years and in that time we have seen exactly one skunk on our property.
> We found it torn limb from limb in the front field one morning.
> We have zero skunks here.
> ...


The yotes here come into the yard and eat our barn cats......which increases the mouse population......which attracts more yotes. So what do you suggest?


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

The coyotes do eat cats and small dogs, that is for sure. They also eat a tremendous amount of rodents.
Coyotes are big eaters. And unlike large cats that take out a couple of deer each week, coyotes are hunting every single day and night.
And what easier prey to find is one that they can smell a mile away and can't move very fast. (skunks)
Tim, I understand your dilemma. Sometimes things are all about choices and trade-offs.
We run a commercial beekeeping operation here so bees are a pretty high priority.
The coyotes are thick here and we work to keep it that way.
So, we do periodically place D-Con around the buildings.
And here is a possible solution that inhales mice:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D47P1TgZ7ZE


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## MTN-Bees (Jan 27, 2014)

Predators for skunks are Mountain Lions, foxes, and Coyotes. Aerial Predators are Hawks and Owls, especially the Great Horned Owl.


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

MTN-Bees said:


> Predators for skunks are Mountain Lions, foxes, and Coyotes. Aerial Predators are Hawks and Owls, especially the Great Horned Owl.


Oh yeah!!!
Cougars, check!
Coyotes, check!
Hawks and owls, check! 

No wonder we don't have skunks!

Strong honey bee hives check and double check!


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## MTN-Bees (Jan 27, 2014)

How about Guard Llamas?


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

MTN-Bees said:


> Predators for skunks are Mountain Lions, foxes, and Coyotes. Aerial Predators are Hawks and Owls, especially the Great Horned Owl.


Don't forget motor vehicles.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Ever since I started using pallet boards my skunk issue has decreased to the point I don't think much about skunks anymore. Hives sitting on the ground are sitting ducks. 
Also, ever notice a skunk will pick on the smaller hives? They will point out a problem hive in a yard, so it seems.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

dsegrest said:


> Who empties the trap when you catch a skunk.


My wife. Some times she just grabs them by the tale and after the third shot to the face she flings them 20 ft in the air. Funny thing is they usually don't come back.


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## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

Acebird said:


> My wife. Some times she just grabs them by the tale and after the third shot to the face she flings them 20 ft in the air. Funny thing is they usually don't come back.


Neither does she I hope.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I have occasionally seen some scat that contained bees. Since the skunks were leaving soggy piles of bees that were not scat, I've assumed that was a possum or some other insectivore's scat. Maybe some of the skunks didn't get the memo not to swallow...


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

HarryVanderpool said:


> And here is a possible solution that inhales mice:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D47P1TgZ7ZE


That is an Adirondack mouse trap and you only need the peanut butter on the can, nowhere else. Perfect for cellars and attics.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

dsegrest said:


> Neither does she I hope.


Why? It washes off. The cloths you throw in the dumpster which keeps the customers from using the dumpster for a couple of weeks.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

dsegrest said:


> Who empties the trap when you catch a skunk.


me, after after submerging this in the creek for about 20 minutes:

http://www.northerntrapping.com/cgi/display.cgi?item_num=ADC6


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## pgayle (Jan 27, 2008)

So I guess nobody really knows the answer? So far all we have is a "They do SO!" "They do NOT!" discussion. I imagine it would be hard to document unless somebody wants to set up an infrared light and sit out in the bee yard all night with a video camera. I was tending to go with the beekeepers on this one. But the trackers seem firmer in their convictions. And they identified the pellets as probable skunk poop without even knowing the context in which they were found. 

I did learn from y'all that they can do more damage than I realized. Next time I can get home I'll get the chicken wire and tack strips up.


P.S. I looked at the link for the skunk trap and found this lure:

http://www.northerntrapping.com/cgi/display.cgi?item_num=8571512

You couldn't get near your colony for a week!


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

pgayle said:


> So I guess nobody really knows the answer? So far all we have is a "They do SO!" "They do NOT!" discussion.


probably one of those answers that's not either/or, but rather both/and.

i've had luck baiting with peanut butter and cat food.


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## imthegrumpyone (Jun 29, 2013)

I had vary few this year, usually catch them in a trap and pop them, ( have a real good Air Arms 200 Mark lll .22 ) then through them over the fence for my hawks to eat.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Our hives are mostly on pallets, and we have all the above mentioned predators. We also have an overpopulation of skunks here.Worst I have ever seen. No yard escaped damage this year.Hives dug out, crap everywhere.

Years ago, a friend had a really great bear hound. But he had two quirks. One , if there was any way he could do it, he would be in the tree with the bear.
And two, he hated skunks with a passion and would go out of his way to kill them. Couldn't stand to be around him.


This is the best skunk trap:http://www.snareshop.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ADC6


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## PaBill (Apr 4, 2014)

Use garlic and onion chips or cheese curls for bait, less likely to catch cats. Before you set the live trap tie a length of rope to the handle and leave there. After you catch the skunk, walk up to the trap slowly holding a sheet/blanket or what you have opened up and slowly cover the trap. Pick the trap up and walk it to your vehicle of choice and drive it to the nearest pond and toss trap and sheet in while holding onto the rope you already tied on earlier. No spraying and no smell. I have done this many times with out any smell, even transporting it inside a blazer.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

The good thing about the pipe traps is you can just walk up and pick them up without covering them. But thats the right way to do a regular cage trap for sure.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

> probably one of those answers that's not either/or, but rather both/and.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

I have two images linked below that are represented as evidence of skunks preying on bees. Note that the appearance/texture of the remains in each photo is _quite different_.








Photo Credit








Photo Credit

Caption for the upper photo reads,"They are chewed *spitballs *of bees left by a marauding skunk."


Here is the caption for the lower photo, "Skunk *feces *with bee parts in it is a good indication the skunk has been feeding on bees." 

Click the respective Photo Credits to visit the page hosting the image.

k:


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

BEESERIOUS said:


> H4A, what's EG?


ethylene glychol aka antifreeze


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

good work rader.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

jim lyon said:


> Don't forget motor vehicles.


Technically not a predator. Leastwise my truck doesn't go out hunting skunks.


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

If you don't have coyotes trained to attack skunkies, an inexpensive .22 short is the round of choice for short-range "stinkers". Another option is a board with sewing pins sticking up through it placed in front of the entrance to the hive stand. Still another option is the electric fence with a chicken wire footer strip. That's for keeping bears out, and the footer strip keeps out skunkies, opposums, raccoons, and even some idiots. A sign stating, "Tresspassers will be shot. Survivors will be shot again." also helps keep out idiots.


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## sterling (Nov 14, 2013)

I think this thread is pretty funny. Everybody wants to kill the skunks for eating some bees, but a guy a little while back had a redbird eating bees off his landing board and a lot of people were demonizing everybody who wanted to shoot that one little bird like it was going to destroy the cardinal population. Nobody is taking up for the poor little hungry skunks. They have to eat same as the redbirds do.:lookout:


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## BEESERIOUS (Feb 25, 2009)

Quote Originally Posted by BEESERIOUS View Post
H4A, what's EG?
ethylene glychol aka antifreeze


Ahhh. Thanks


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Yer wecum B serious

Strychnine is no longer available at the local drug store, like it used to be.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Thanks for the pictures. Yes, that is the two different things I've seen. But I've seen more of the "spitballs" than the feces. As usually in life, people assume it's all or nothing and it's actually both...


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

its difficult to gauge how much damage skunks do in terms of total bee losses. The worst I saw was in the drought of 2012 when it seemed every yard had massive amounts of skunk activity. I would take issue with Ian's comments about them preying on weaker hives, though. If I want to find a big hive I only need to look for skunk "scratchings" they tend to go where there is the easiest meal. I have never had the opportunity to watch one in action but I have heard they just swipe their tails in the entrance and then eat the bees that attack their tales. If the hive has a good population or possibly if they are just a real aggressive hive it's no doubt a pretty easy meal for them. They love to leave their "calling cards" behind as well. A quick observation of the droppings will tell you they love honeybees.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

sterling said:


> Nobody is taking up for the poor little hungry skunks.


that's pretty much how i felt until our dogs caused a skunk to spray and some of it landed on the window of my wife's 535i. the window cleaned up just fine, but what dribbled down into the inside of the door was another matter.

we had an off season this year with less nectar available resulting in fewer stores and smaller winter clusters. i haven't sweated the few bees that have gotten chewed up in the past but i am being more vigilant this year.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

They do the worst damage on the cold nights in Fall . There aren't many bees being raised then and the skunk digging and scratching causes the bees to pour out and become chilled .Hundred of dead bees mixed in with the mud.These are your winter bees, the ones needed to carry the hive through the winter.I agree with Jim, they like the strong hives and they are worse in drought years.Coyotes are no help here. Traps and cars are! 
When you have 15 skunks working a yard , we are talking REAL damage.


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

loggermike said:


> .Coyotes are no help here. Traps and cars are!
> When you have 15 skunks working a yard , we are talking REAL damage.


If you have 15 skunks working a yard, there is a lack of sufficient numbers of predators in your area.
The problem is, most people see a coyote and think, TARGET PRACTICE!
I know, because I hear it all the time.
Do your own poll. Bring up coyotes around people and immediately its all about "Me and my buddies go shooting...." 
What they should be thinking is , "There's a dog that nobody feeds, eats alot, and mainly forages for annoying rodents."
Coyotes are thick in our area and we do everything to keep them that way.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

I personally agree Harry. We live out in the country and coyote populations seem to be cyclical for some reason. When we have a lot of them around they keep the rabbit populations down. High rabbit populations mean lots of severe damage to most desirable plantings including shelter belts, fruit trees and pretty much anything else with tender bark. Most ranchers disdain coyotes, though, with pretty good reason as they tend to shadow cow calf herds. One time we saved a calf that had gotten separated from the herd on the wrong side of a fence and was surrounded by coyotes, it was a bit scary, though. They seemed real reluctant to retreat even when we ran at them and shouted at them.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

HarryVanderpool said:


> If you have 15 skunks working a yard, there is a lack of sufficient numbers of predators in your area.
> The problem is, most people see a coyote and think, TARGET PRACTICE!
> I know, because I hear it all the time.
> Do your own poll. Bring up coyotes around people and immediately its all about "Me and my buddies go shooting...."
> ...


Lots of coyotes here Harry. I see them often, and they do travel through the beeyards. I shot and trapped many when i was younger and the pelts were $50.00 That was real money back in the 70s .Bought groceries during hard times.Even skunks brought 5 bucks a pelt. I know the ranchers still shoot them , but don't know that many young people that can tear themselves away from netflix long enough to be a danger to the coyotes.

In any case I am all in favor of ANYTHING that kills skunks.


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## FLBEEK (Jul 15, 2014)

kilocharlie said:


> If you don't have coyotes trained to attack skunkies, an inexpensive .22 short is the round of choice for short-range "stinkers". *Another option is a board with sewing pins sticking up through it placed in front of the entrance to the hive stand*. Still another option is the electric fence with a chicken wire footer strip. That's for keeping bears out, and the footer strip keeps out skunkies, opposums, raccoons, and even some idiots. A sign stating, "Tresspassers will be shot. Survivors will be shot again." also helps keep out idiots.


This is something I found recommended on a bee school video I watched on youtube

http://www.homedepot.com/s/carpet+tack+strip?NCNI-5


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

jim lyon said:


> I personally agree Harry. We live out in the country and coyote populations seem to be cyclical for some reason.
> They seemed real reluctant to retreat even when we ran at them and shouted at them.


We definitely have observed the population cycles as well.
I have also observed their sometimes gutsy nature. Seems like about every other year I will have one that will trot alongside the tractor while baling hay.
Also kind of funny how with their winter coat they look so big. Like a wolf!
Then in mid summer they are skinny as a rail.

I have one spot in the back field where I dump gophers or any other critters for the coyotes to eat.
Always gone the next morning!


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## Dave Burrup (Jul 22, 2008)

Coyotes and wolves are susceptible to Parvo Virus just like our dogs. Foxes are not susceptible. Around here when we have a Parvo out break the coyotes undergo a population reduction and they occur less often in close to town. Just about every fox den I have come across has skunk and domestic cat remains around it. In high school and on into college I did a feeding study on Great Horned Owls by picking through their pellets. It was amazing how often the pellets had skunk and cat remains in them. Even though predators and vehicles take a bunch, the controlling factor in our area is the vole population. The skunk population increases as the vole population increase. The year after the vole population crashes we see almost no young skunks.
Our bee yard is fenced with no climb wire, also called horse wire, so we do not have a big problem with skunks in our bees.
Dave


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

Dave Burrup said:


> Even though predators and vehicles take a bunch, the controlling factor in our area is the vole population. The skunk population increases as the vole population increase. The year after the vole population crashes we see almost no young skunks.Dave


Dave, what is the connection between skunks and voles? Very interesting observation!
While we have exactly zero skunks, our hay fields unfortunately have voles.
We have 1 (that's one) herron, or some sort of crane type bird that stands perfectly still over vole holes and as one surfaces, BLOOP!!
I wish we had a couple dozen of them out there!


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

sterling said:


> Nobody is taking up for the poor little hungry skunks.


Tongue in cheek I assume 

Up here because skunks hibernate throughout most of the winter months, and hibernate in groups, rabies is a huge concern. My cousin is a veterinarian and tells me ( as did another veterinarian at a bee convention few years back ) that in the spring after the skunks awaken from their slumber 40-45% of the skunks carry rabies. We shoot them every time we see them. 
According to our chief extensions apiarist the saliva left on the door step of the hives is not a concern. The sun dries it out.


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## Dave Burrup (Jul 22, 2008)

Harry the voles provide a major food source for the skunks, abundant food means more young for the skunks. The skunks dig up the vole nests. The vole we have digs really shallow tunnels and nests. The damage the skunks do digging voles is astounding. Foxes, coyotes, and raccoons also dig the voles. The species we have builds up to astounding populations. They decimate hay fields. Then for a few years after the crash they are almost non-existent. 
Dave


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## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

Dave Burrup said:


> Harry the voles provide a major food source for the skunks, abundant food means more young for the skunks. The skunks dig up the vole nests. The vole we have digs really shallow tunnels and nests. The damage the skunks do digging voles is astounding. Foxes, coyotes, and raccoons also dig the voles. The species we have builds up to astounding populations. They decimate hay fields. Then for a few years after the crash they are almost non-existent.
> Dave


Although there are several other reasons as well, this demonstrates why pesticides should not be used. When we kill all of the prey, the predators leave and don't come back until way after the resurgence of the prey animal. I spray my vegetable plants with Thuricide or Neem oil; but I leave the weeds un-treated so there is habitat for enough pests to keep the natural predators around.


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