# Wiped out hives



## lilhouseonprairie (Jun 19, 2014)

Your best bet for a hardcore answer is to send a sample to USDA as soon as possible while the bees are fresh. With a forsure answer, you'll know whether or not it's safe to reuse your equipment. 

Posting pictures might help the forum provide a guess in the mean time. 

Instructions for USDA sampling (free service).


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Welcome to Beesource!



While sending samples of bees to the USDA lab mentioned above can help eliminate certain diseases, note that lab does not test for pesticide contamination.

Posting photos is a good idea. If you want to use the 'upload photo' function, make sure your images do not exceed 800x800 pixels, or the upload will fail.


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## MTN-Bees (Jan 27, 2014)

I would call the Bee Lab before sending samples as their website says they do not test for pesticide residues or viruses.


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

wait What?...... the company you purchased the bees from char $15 to answer a question? If you think the granules are fire ant poison, I'd say that was the culpret.


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## 44wheat (Mar 17, 2015)

Thanks for the advice about the USDA, I'll definitely look into it more. And, I'll work on getting some pictures tomorrow.




Harley Craig said:


> wait What?...... the company you purchased the bees from char $15 to answer a question? If you think the granules are fire ant poison, I'd say that was the culpret.


Yeah, they don't even have a way to contact by phone anymore. Was a highly recommended breeder here in Texas. I won't be using them again.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

Sounds like wax cappings to me but sounds like they didn't starve.


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

Pics will help. When a hive dies sometimes robber bees will steal the honey and that might be the source of the white particles: hastily chewed off cappings.

You pick up a small quantity of them and see if, in the aggregate, they act like wax: when warmed in your hand will they get soft and smear? Can they be melted like wax? 

It's hard to imagine how ant bait particles could wind up in your hive - I can't see the bees hauling it in. Is there enough in there that it could be human sabotage? Perhaps one of your neighbobrs doesn't like bees? Or wretched juveniles up to mischief?

I'm really sorry about your bees. I would be distraught!

Enj.


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## 44wheat (Mar 17, 2015)

I'm not great at these kinds of things. I hope it's clear enough.


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## rwlaw (May 4, 2009)

I do wish I could help, but I the only thing I can offer is, I know if you have any chemists that you can think of they could do a burn and examine the ash and there are certain characters that be identified. Maybe get some of the granules onto a darker background and a closer shot.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Did you test for varroa?


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

This is my new mantra:

_Whenever a relatively new beek posts about a hive dying, and the description of the circumstances doesn't mention a mite strategy, either a treating or a non-treating one, it is most probably mites that killed the hive.
_
JMHO


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

shinbone said:


> This is my new mantra:


It has been mine for a while, sad to say.


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## fieldsofnaturalhoney (Feb 29, 2012)

shinbone said:


> This is my new mantra:
> 
> _Whenever a relatively new beek posts about a hive dying, and the description of the circumstances doesn't mention a mite strategy, either a treating or a non-treating one, it is most probably mites that killed the hive.
> _
> JMHO


This is not a new mantra around here, but maybe for some , and may even be true, but I would venture to write that there are many other factors leading up to hive deaths. Especially in this case where, "I checked my hives after the first spell and everything was fine." What exactly does that mean? Obviously, something wasn't fine.
Another factor may just be the fact that some are new and don't know what to look for, or never put their head "in" the box, and everything seems fine from outside the box 44Wheat, all I see in your pictures is a pile of dead bees, and wax uncapping shavings.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

Doesn't look like much in those frames as far as stores go but not that you an tell much at that angle. Need a closer picture, is that a screened bottom board?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>This is my new mantra:...

I think that was the old mantra...

Bees never died before Varroa...


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## newbury (Jul 19, 2014)

Scrape up a bunch of the granules and try to kill some ants with them.


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

Any chance they were weak and then finished off with robbing? If so the wac cells will be open and look ragged on the top edge and there will be irregular wax bits on the comb and the baseboard.


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## johng (Nov 24, 2009)

2 and 3 year old hives I can't help but think of varroa.


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## johng (Nov 24, 2009)

Which company charges $15 to answer a question.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

_Johng_, you may be interested in this _Bee Help Desk_ page ...

http://www.beeweaver.com/three-ways-use-beeweaver-help-desk

... fees shown at the link.


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## johng (Nov 24, 2009)

I'm leaving a fortune on the table, I get at least 2-3 calls a day from people asking bee questions.


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## 44wheat (Mar 17, 2015)

My apologies for the late reply to everyone, ended up getting really busy the last couple days. I'm pretty sure the culprit is ant bait. I found an empty container about 5 yards from my fence line. I never tested or treated for mites because the company I purchased my bees from claimed that the breed they have created are resistant to mites. They claim they haven't treated since 2001. Plus their bees were pretty expensive. I took their word for it not knowing anything about bee keeping.



Rader Sidetrack said:


> _Johng_, you may be interested in this _Bee Help Desk_ page ...
> 
> http://www.beeweaver.com/three-ways-use-beeweaver-help-desk
> 
> ... fees shown at the link.


This would be them, just didn't want to name and shame.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

If you found an empty box, perhaps purchasing a full box of that same Ant Bait product could help you confirm that the substance found inside your hive matches the ant bait product.


Is there someone in the neighborhood that is unhappy about the location of your hives?


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

Sorry about your loss.
I too have BeeWeaver bees. I think their claim to fame is treatment free bees. I don't think they are mite free. I have found dead mites and dead shb on the bottom boards and in the entrance feeders after the jars have been removed. They had been chewed. After the bees ate all the syrup it looks like they used the space to store the garbage. I did find a live shb today that had no front legs. It looks like they are performing as advertised. I have a cheap 60 power microscope that you hold between your thumb and index finger that works well enough. I got it on E-Bay. 
People who poison bees are criminals and should be held accountable. That's a considerable investment someone wiped out if that is the case. I hope you try again. Good Luck


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## 44wheat (Mar 17, 2015)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> If you found an empty box, perhaps purchasing a full box of that same Ant Bait product could help you confirm that the substance found inside your hive matches the ant bait product.
> 
> 
> Is there someone in the neighborhood that is unhappy about the location of your hives?


There were a few granules left in the container. They looked very similar to what was in my hive. Wasn't able to get a closer look today because we had rain and I didn't close my hives up very well. The granules in my hive are water soluble and turned to mush when I went to pick some up.


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## 44wheat (Mar 17, 2015)

AHudd said:


> Sorry about your loss.
> I too have BeeWeaver bees. I think their claim to fame is treatment free bees. I don't think they are mite free. I have found dead mites and dead shb on the bottom boards and in the entrance feeders after the jars have been removed. They had been chewed. After the bees ate all the syrup it looks like they used the space to store the garbage. I did find a live shb today that had no front legs. It looks like they are performing as advertised. I have a cheap 60 power microscope that you hold between your thumb and index finger that works well enough. I got it on E-Bay.
> People who poison bees are criminals and should be held accountable. That's a considerable investment someone wiped out if that is the case. I hope you try again. Good Luck




You're correct about what they claim. I must have mistaken "chemical free" as being resistant to mites. I'll correct my earlier post.


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## Barry Digman (May 21, 2003)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> you may be interested in this _Bee Help Desk_ page ...


Darn. I'm doing it wrong. I'll stand in your backyard all afternoon and answer questions for a cold beer and some hot wings...


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

Barry Digman said:


> Darn. I'm doing it wrong. I'll stand in your backyard all afternoon and answer questions for a cold beer and some hot wings...


Me too, I may not have the right answers, but after as few cold ones I can make up some pretty good ones.LOL


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

What's the active ingredient listed on the box of ant bait? 

I'm findng it really hard to believe that bees would pick up and carry particles of ant bait back to their hive. They are not scavengers - they collect honey in the their honey stomach and they collect pollen in the baskets of the legs and attached to their fuzzy parts. But pick up and carry stuff - just doesn;t sound like bees.

If you have wetted the particles in the hive and they dissolve, they are not was torn-out cappings due to robbing (though robbing may comence secondary to a hive collapsing from some other problem. 

Even the infamous mite frass on the walls of cells is not really likely here because the mystery particles are bigger than that.

I leaning more towards it being some stupid and viscious human with an axe to grind against your bees. Game camera time, I think.

Handle the next box you find as if it had fingerprints on it, because it very well might. Think CSI.

What a rotten experience to have to deal with!

Enj.


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