# Lessons learned as a newbie



## djei5 (Apr 24, 2011)

Sounds like you had some drifting, you can always switch hives with the super duper place and gain some bees back to the other hives.


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

Well, I think you learned the first, and perhaps most important thing, a first year beekeeper needs to know: watch your hives enough so that when you think you see something wrong about what you are seeing you'll recognize the difference. And then act on your suspicion even if somebody told you that (in general) it's better to leave the hive alone for awhile after you set it up. 

Having a super hive will probably work out fine because I think you will be able to harvest frames of brood from it to add to the others. Then those eggs/brood, when they hatch out, will think that their new hive has always been "home" and stay there, so in the end all will be well. The big hive will probably be a comb-making, brood making dynamo for awhile. 

Be SURE you are not moving the queen from the big hive when you transfer the frames. That would be a really big oops!

Keep an eye out for robbing as the size differences between the big hive and the smaller ones will be great. But as the smaller ones grow (from their own efforts and any brood you transfer) it will equalize in a month or so, as foragers only live about three weeks. 

Your hives look very nice, all painted those pretty colors. (I'm partial to mixed colors for bee yards, my hives are eacha different color which helps me keep them straight in my mind.) But I'm curious about the brown panels on the sides - what are they for? And your apiary has a very tidy, well-managed look about it.

How did your mentor test for robbing? 

Enj.


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## 78-79fordman (Mar 23, 2014)

enjambres said:


> Well, I think you learned the first, and perhaps most important thing, a first year beekeeper needs to know: watch your hives enough so that when you think you see something wrong about what you are seeing you'll recognize the difference. And then act on your suspicion even if somebody told you that (in general) it's better to leave the hive alone for awhile after you set it up.
> 
> Having a super hive will probably work out fine because I think you will be able to harvest frames of brood from it to add to the others. Then those eggs/brood, when they hatch out, will think that their new hive has always been "home" and stay there, so in the end all will be well. The big hive will probably be a comb-making, brood making dynamo for awhile.
> 
> ...


And ya that's what my mentor said also I was doing good seeing something wasn't right .

Ya that was my thought also use the brood from the big hive to help the smalls . And ya I no I will have to be careful and find the queen as she will probley be some what hard for me to find with so many bees and new to finding her. 

The boards on the side was put there to hold the bottoms on as I had to take my hives to the person I bought the bees from for them to put them in the hives . I just haven't removed them . 

First he watched the front watching them . And then stood right in front of the hive as in covering it . He said if there was robbing they would attack him the robbers . 

Maybe this right off the bat will make me better down the road I hope . And ya I have been really watch them I been sating in the truck where I can watch but be out of the way ever little bit that I can .


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## 78-79fordman (Mar 23, 2014)

djei5 said:


> Sounds like you had some drifting, you can always switch hives with the super duper place and gain some bees back to the other hives.


My mentor thought that could have happened also but he said that it seemed it wouldn't be that many . The drifting I hope i wouldn't have with the different colors . 

I don't know really what happened . All I know is I will never do packages and put them so close together . That's one of the biggest lessons I learnt . This time.

I probley should have just put two on a stand at each end . And left a empty one in between . Tell they got started . But there on the upper and middle stands . The pic below was before the bees in mock up.


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## marshmasterpat (Jun 26, 2013)

Man that is a really fine set up. Love the stands. Mind telling me what the ground in your yard is covered with. 

You have plenty room to grow and apparently have a eye for details. Think you are going to do really well. Keep us posted.


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## Margot1d (Jun 23, 2012)

That's a real pretty bee yard. I'm jealous.


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## 78-79fordman (Mar 23, 2014)

marshmasterpat said:


> Man that is a really fine set up. Love the stands. Mind telling me what the ground in your yard is covered with.
> 
> You have plenty room to grow and apparently have a eye for details. Think you are going to do really well. Keep us posted.


Thanks 

and its old carpet that was took out and replaced .


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## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

So, what do you do now?

I'm skeptical that 'screened bottom boards' caused this. In my way of thinking, you have a really good queen in that hive box with all the bees. 

A queen that puts out more pheromones than the others might draw drifting bees. Does she put out enough pheromones to waft out the bottom screen? Maybe, but I haven't seen that reported any place I'm reading.

As djei5 suggested, moving your weakest hive to the place of the strongest hive and the strong hive to the weakest hive location will help equalize the populations. Then, switch the weak and strong hives again and again to equalize all the hives. 

If you don't fix the population imbalance, that big hive will rob the weaker hives soon and too many of those bees will leave your bee yard in a swarm(s). Start switching before the hives get heavy! HTH 

P.S. Your apiary has to be the nicest apiary I have seen. Good work!


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## 78-79fordman (Mar 23, 2014)

Another thought should I try to split the super duper hive . I can get another queen from the guy I got the bees from . I havent called him to see his thoughts . 
Any thoughts on trying a split and moving them a mile and a half away the new splits ???


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## 78-79fordman (Mar 23, 2014)

Double post


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## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

You probably have enough bees for a new beekeeper to manage already. 

Switching the hive positions will split the bees.


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## 78-79fordman (Mar 23, 2014)

Lburou said:


> You probably have enough bees for a new beekeeper to manage already.
> 
> Switching the hive positions will split the bees.


Ya 6 packages and 12 nucs so I'm starting with 18 hives . It's just I don't have my nucs yet . Few more weeks I'm told on the nucs . 

I was told by the guy I got them from to just super them all they need and let them work .


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## 78-79fordman (Mar 23, 2014)

Called the guy I got them from this morning to tell him the problem I have with the 6 and ask for advice what to do . He said load the 5 up and bring them back to him he would fix me up . So I did and he put me another 4-5 pounds in the boxes . He said I would be good now . 

And he said the problem was drift to the one hive because i had them way to close . He said 20 foot minimum on packages . He assumed I knew that I never read it or was never told . 

I didn't ask him to give me more bees or anything he took it on his self to give me more . So I have meet a super stand up guy . And i will for sure buy from him anytime I need queens or bees . 

So what I learned packaged bees can not be any closer than 20 feet . And for at least 3 weeks they have to stay that way . 
So now I only have the super duper hive by its self on that land it's on . Have 3 of the rebee'd hives on 20 acres one on the very north side - one on the very south side - and then one on the very middle so they a good distance away from each other . And there 2 miles from where they was . At the pretty yard in the pics above . The other two are are on a different property that's a mile and a half from the yard they are spaced about a 1/4 mile apart . So I shouldn't have the problem I just had again .


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## Jackam (Jun 3, 2013)

78-79fordman said:


> So what I learned packaged bees can not be any closer than 20 feet . And for at least 3 weeks they have to stay that way .


I know of many packages (mine included) that are within a few feet of each other.
Did you stuff some grass in the entrance to keep them in the hive for a while after you first closed the hive? My thought is that it keeps them in the hive long enough to get to know the scent of their queen. They work to get the grass out and all is well. No drift.


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## 78-79fordman (Mar 23, 2014)

Jackam said:


> I know of many packages (mine included) that are within a few feet of each other.
> Did you stuff some grass in the entrance to keep them in the hive for a while after you first closed the hive? My thought is that it keeps them in the hive long enough to get to know the scent of their queen. They work to get the grass out and all is well. No drift.


They where put in my boxes where I bought them there where screened there for the 2 hour drive home . Didn't put anything in front when I got them home just took the screens off .


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## Slow Drone (Apr 19, 2014)

30inches 30ft,doesn't matter.If you use screened bottom boards you must keep the debri tray in or they will drift.Leaving the tray out disallows the queens pheromones to permeate the hive.The hive must build up to the point that the bees feel they are established before you leave the tray out.I operate screened and solid bottom boards they both have positive and negative points or advantages and disadvantages.The point I'm making can be proven by again leave the debri tray out!Nice looking set-up!My hives set 15 inches apart a little closer than what you have there.If I don't leave the debri trays in they will usually drift to the hives on the ends particularly where the sun hits first.Yes they will also drift to the queen with the strongest pheromones if you leave the debri tray out.My hives are set-up for me to quickly work them 15 inches apart is what I like 8 to 12 in a row 6 to 4 rows 32 to 48 per outyard.I have more problems with hive bettles in screened bottom boards, is harder to clean the solid bottom boards.I have found for me screened or solid doesn't matter,but I surely don't like hive beetles,I surely don't like cleaning solid bottom boards.30 ft between hives would work if installing just a few packages.9hives x 30 ft. = 270 ft. leave something at the first hive you just walked 270 ft. you have to walk back 270 ft. to get what you left behind 270 ft. to go back where you were 810 ft. you're not home yet.The way I set-up that's to much walking for me in just one outyard.I have been very busy and very tired in the past ,forgot to put debri trays in boom I created a lot of extra work for myself.When you have an entire outyard like that you either straighten it out now(I just wanna go home)or it's more work and extra trips to my outyards(splits,raising queens tra la la la doh!)Needless to say I've never done that again!You shouldn't have to move your hives again just re-install with the debri tray in.Don't change your apiary looks easy and convenient to me.6 lbs. in each hive will probably build out to the 8th frame in 3 weeks give or take a frame.I like 5 to 6 lbs. myself build quick and nicely!Good luck and enjoy your bees!Grass isn't needed in this situation just the debri tray.


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## 78-79fordman (Mar 23, 2014)

Slow Drone said:


> 30inches 30ft,doesn't matter.If you use screened bottom boards you must keep the debri tray in or they will drift.Leaving the tray out disallows the queens pheromones to permeate the hive.The hive must build up to the point that the bees feel they are established before you leave the tray out.I operate screened and solid bottom boards they both have positive and negative points or advantages and disadvantages.The point I'm making can be proven by again leave the debri tray out!Nice looking set-up!My hives set 15 inches apart a little closer than what you have there.If I don't leave the debri trays in they will usually drift to the hives on the ends particularly where the sun hits first.Yes they will also drift to the queen with the strongest pheromones if you leave the debri tray out.My hives are set-up for me to quickly work them 15 inches apart is what I like 8 to 12 in a row 6 to 4 rows 32 to 48 per outyard.I have more problems with hive bettles in screened bottom boards, is harder to clean the solid bottom boards.I have found for me screened or solid doesn't matter,but I surely don't like hive beetles,I surely don't like cleaning solid bottom boards.30 ft between hives would work if installing just a few packages.9hives x 30 ft. = 270 ft. leave something at the first hive you just walked 270 ft. you have to walk back 270 ft. to get what you left behind 270 ft. to go back where you were 810 ft. you're not home yet.The way I set-up that's to much walking for me in just one outyard.I have been very busy and very tired in the past ,forgot to put debri trays in boom I created a lot of extra work for myself.When you have an entire outyard like that you either straighten it out now(I just wanna go home)or it's more work and extra trips to my outyards(splits,raising queens tra la la la doh!)Needless to say I've never done that again!You shouldn't have to move your hives again just re-install with the debri tray in.Don't change your apiary looks easy and convenient to me.6 lbs. in each hive will probably build out to the 8th frame in 3 weeks give or take a frame.I like 5 to 6 lbs. myself build quick and nicely!Good luck and enjoy your bees!Grass isn't needed in this situation just the debri tray.


Ya I had the screens out I do believe like you said it was a big factor in the problem . But I put them in but it was done to late . 

So yes I learned keep them in . As soon as I set up the five after getting back with the rebee'd hives I installed the slide in broads Immediately matter of fact I had them in right before I opened them this time . 

Now I just have to wait the 3 weeks so I can get them back in my. Permanent yard . And hope all goes smoothly the next 3 weeks then after there moves then. .

And I did make my stands where the would hold 5 hives . If I want that many on the stand . But with 3 per stand I just enough room for a work area . 

And how far apart is your rows as I planned my yard to layer rows but ain't sure the Distance needed to safely work the rows . Are the all the fronts pointed the same Direction .


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## Slow Drone (Apr 19, 2014)

I like them the best at 15 ft.good clearance for a truck or tractor.Sometimes I run them back to back with comfortable work space between(what ever works for you)you can run back to back with just a couple inches of clearance with work clearance to the side.Apiary inspector really likes the yards with the side clearance.I'm fine either way.It just depends on the layout of the ground I set-up on.Flat ground with the right windbreak works good for back to back,sloping or moderately hilly works good for rows(bees fly over other hives rather than around)back to back they don't fly over other hives.I try to set-up so they aren't flying over each other,that's my logic behind my set-ups.Comfortable for me and comfortable for the bees,seems to work for us both.


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## 78-79fordman (Mar 23, 2014)

Well new problem where I put my 3 hives at my house I had to go somewhere this morning and came back to a dam roadrunner bird eating bees in my yard . Couldn't get in the house in time to get my gun . So now what ??


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## Slow Drone (Apr 19, 2014)

Birds hang out in an around my apiary and outyards all the time ,doesn't seem to deplete the populations any.I don't worry about it cause they eat other insects also.I don't know much about roadrunners,but if it causes you some concern shotgun will give you satisfaction but no remedy.A friend of mine has bees also(go figure) he fancies aluminum pie plates tied to a stake.Seems to make him feel better.Honeybees have a lot of predators.Hornets,wasp and skunks are my number one enemies.I've had wasp and hornets kill queens in the past(wasp got one 3 weeks ago)Hive height or a top entrance makes the skunks the easiest.I don't know if roadrunners fly or not?hmmm hive height or top entrance might work.Let me know I'm curious:scratch:


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## 78-79fordman (Mar 23, 2014)

Slow Drone said:


> Birds hang out in an around my apiary and outyards all the time ,doesn't seem to deplete the populations any.I don't worry about it cause they eat other insects also.I don't know much about roadrunners,but if it causes you some concern shotgun will give you satisfaction but no remedy.A friend of mine has bees also(go figure) he fancies aluminum pie plates tied to a stake.Seems to make him feel better.Honeybees have a lot of predators.Hornets,wasp and skunks are my number one enemies.I've had wasp and hornets kill queens in the past(wasp got one 3 weeks ago)Hive height or a top entrance makes the skunks the easiest.I don't know if roadrunners fly or not?hmmm hive height or top entrance might work.Let me know I'm curious:scratch:


I have them on two cider blocks with the wood hive stand . 
And the roadrunners can fly short Distance . 
I only had them one brick hight because that was all the bricks I had but I picked up enought for two this morning . So the bees where right at the runners height to just set there and eat . 

I just done the two at my other location like this but ran out of wire . It's three foot wire . I'm just a little worried about a Possible bear or wild hogs .


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## 78-79fordman (Mar 23, 2014)

Went ahead and ran to town and got some more wire and a few more t post . And done the other three .


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I've had them drift pretty far before. Distance might make a small difference, but only a small one. Installing just before dark makes a lot of difference in slowing down drifting. Installing when it's raining is even better...


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## 78-79fordman (Mar 23, 2014)

Michael Bush said:


> I've had them drift pretty far before. Distance might make a small difference, but only a small one. Installing just before dark makes a lot of difference in slowing down drifting. Installing when it's raining is even better...


Ya the second time here they didn't get released tell pretty much right before dark like 30 mins . Want know tell a few days because its cool and don't want to really bother them . But just watching the bees that was working today was a lot better sight then with just a few bees in each Like i had . They all looked almost like my super dupper hive working wise . So maybe fingers crossed I have them right now .


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## Slow Drone (Apr 19, 2014)

Sounds like they're setting up house.You're good to go:thumbsup:


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## 78-79fordman (Mar 23, 2014)

Ok the things I have learned . 

Screened bottom boards and packages causes problems . Slid in board must be in.
Package hive Closeness no closer than 20 feet because of drift . 
Plastic foundation I believe really needs waxed more even if bought waxed . Package can really not like them . Wax foundation maybe better switched to wax to see . 

And after watching even after pretty much Established I still don't like the slid in screened bottom boards . I'm building some freeman ones with there trays so they fit super tight . To keep bees out from under the screen and to hope keep the Odors in and mites and beetles in check . If I don't like that I'm going solid board . And given the screen bottoms away . 

Everything seems pretty much good though . 

And sugar ants are try to take my brick stand hives .not building nest just a few running around . Put out Cinnamon and it seemed to work Instantly . So I have to build some metal single hive stands to hold one hive with ant blockers


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## Teal (Jan 30, 2014)

Your bee yard is fantastic.


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## 78-79fordman (Mar 23, 2014)

Ok Cinnamon does not work for these ants . What kind are they ?


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## Beeonefarms (Nov 22, 2013)

You need a moat..... those are the famous .......... Arkansas Step on me ant. You do have a nice set up there.


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## marshmasterpat (Jun 26, 2013)

78-79fordman said:


> Ok Cinnamon does not work for these ants . What kind are they ?


They appear to be what we called honeypot ants. They can store a sweet honey in their abdomen and hang on the roof of their nests and feed it to worker ants. Thought they produced their own fluid that is sweet. Don't know much more than that.


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## 78-79fordman (Mar 23, 2014)

Beeonefarms said:


> You need a moat..... those are the famous .......... Arkansas Step on me ant. You do have a nice set up there.


Ya need to make some single hive metal stands like my big ones with the grease cups . They should keep them out . Doing that tomorrow or the next day weather pending.


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## 78-79fordman (Mar 23, 2014)

marshmasterpat said:


> They appear to be what we called honeypot ants. They can store a sweet honey in their abdomen and hang on the roof of their nests and feed it to worker ants. Thought they produced their own fluid that is sweet. Don't know much more than that.


They do squish and have a lot of liquid come out the big back end . And it's sticky like suger water .


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## Slow Drone (Apr 19, 2014)

Twist the back end off it's edible. Tastes like honey.


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## 78-79fordman (Mar 23, 2014)

Slow Drone said:


> Twist the back end off it's edible. Tastes like honey.


Probley little bastards . Think they would sell as a novelty honey item?


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## 78-79fordman (Mar 23, 2014)

Get'n my Permanent second hive location set up . Set'n it up on a old chicken house pad . Just hope there's no lesson to learn at this placement . Have a 40'x300' pad so plenty room to grow it . It's also where my 20 acre peach orchard is . Having to fence it to keep my 3 pigs and a mini mule from mess'n with them . Hope the bees leave them alone . I know they don't bother my cows at my first Permanent yard .


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## 78-79fordman (Mar 23, 2014)

Going to move some of the bees on it tomorrow . Hope the nucs hurry up and get ready . Got it 100% setup


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## 78-79fordman (Mar 23, 2014)

Can never have enough hives or hive body's and frames ready . Here's some hives we built and painted this weekend .


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## 78-79fordman (Mar 23, 2014)

Just because you think your a bad ass light the smoker !!!!!


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## mattheritage (Apr 17, 2014)

78-79fordman said:


> Just because you think your a bad ass light the smoker !!!!!


That's funny right there... I had the exact same drifting problem. No one could tell me why. I had 2 packages, and 1 lost 70% of the bees to the other. Glad I came across this thread. So which is the "right" answer (or best)? Close in the screen so queen pheremone can permeate, block the bees in for 1-3 days (how long?) so bees get used to their queen, or spread them out? Seems to me that reducing the screen area (or closing it) and blocking them in for a day would be best. I remember hearing about closing them in the hive but didnt do it because they had been in the package for 6 days already and I wasnt sure how long they could survive without being able to be free (dumb I know).


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## mattheritage (Apr 17, 2014)

78-79fordman said:


> Just because you think your a bad ass light the smoker !!!!!


That's funny right there... I had the exact same drifting problem. No one could tell me why. I had 2 packages, and 1 lost 70% of the bees to the other. Glad I came across this thread. So which is the "right" answer (or best)? Close in the screen so queen pheremone can permeate, block the bees in for 1-3 days (how long?) so bees get used to their queen, or spread them out? Seems to me that reducing the screen area (or closing it) and blocking them in for a day would be best. I remember hearing about closing them in the hive but didnt do it because they had been in the package for 6 days already and I wasnt sure how long they could survive without being able to be free (dumb I know).


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## 78-79fordman (Mar 23, 2014)

mattheritage said:


> That's funny right there... I had the exact same drifting problem. No one could tell me why. I had 2 packages, and 1 lost 70% of the bees to the other. Glad I came across this thread. So which is the "right" answer (or best)? Close in the screen so queen pheremone can permeate, block the bees in for 1-3 days (how long?) so bees get used to their queen, or spread them out? Seems to me that reducing the screen area (or closing it) and blocking them in for a day would be best. I remember hearing about closing them in the hive but didnt do it because they had been in the package for 6 days already and I wasnt sure how long they could survive without being able to be free (dumb I know).


If you have screened bottoms have them blocked off and place at least 20 feet away from each other for at least 3 weeks . Then there's little to no chance of drift .


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## 78-79fordman (Mar 23, 2014)

Well it's been a wild ride so far started with the 18 hives got up to 35 hives from the 18 that was doing good and lost 9 that I wouldn't have thought I would lose but still 25 that kicking along . 

I have started building all of my hives from Scratch from boards done got a full wood shop as Assembly line setup . Building stuff to run 100 plus hives for next year .


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