# Painting



## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

I used to stack the boxes eight high with room to walk between.  I would spray all the corners first and then spray all the flats and incidentally the corners. Then I would give the corners another coat and then when the boxes were dry to the touch I would spray all the flats again paying attention to give a little extra to corners that had soaked dry. Not doing it thoroughly the first time is false economy. Buy pastel or light mistints of the best paint cheap is also key. Are you using hvlp or an electric sprayer? I have used both to good effect. Just don't soak til it runs. That is where the paint is wasted.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Good advice from Vance. We mostly spray but keep a roller handy to "backroll" the corners after spraying to fill any gaps and to even the paint out. We really like starting with a Zinsser primer and then finish with a good quality semi gloss. If you are painting empty boxes it works well to turn them upside down to facilitate getting paint up into the hand holds, though that is really more of a cosmetic thing as I've never seen a box ruined by rotting hand holds. Just dont finish with a cheap barn paint.


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## burns375 (Jul 15, 2013)

I am by no means commercial. I 2nd Jim Lyons advice. I always use a primer (kilz), raw would will suck up alot of paint, then 2 coats of good quality paint. I like valspar duramax outdoor paint (semi-gloss). In large quantities its not too expensive. I wouldn't skimp on the paint. It also may be a could idea to spray the inside corner seams.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

Anyone notices differences between flat/semigloss/etc.. as far as durability goes, especially with rain exposure?


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

We like to dip the bare equipment first before we start to paint, either wax or copper 10 works well. That way you don't have to paint again.


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## CtyAcres (Apr 8, 2012)

As a former painting contractor I'll second Keith Jarrett's method. I put one coat of clear Woodlife preservative
on, let dry, and finish with Cabot's stain or high quality paint of your choice.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I have bought paint from Lowes which has a primer in it. When I painted boxes in SC this Spring I used two coats. When my Son painted boxes w/ the same paint after one coat they looked good. Should I have had him apply another coat anyway, regardless of looks? We used rollers.

After reading what y'all have written I'm thinking we should paint the corners, let it dry, paint the flat and the corners again, let it dry and paint everything again. If I am impatient will I regret it later? Shoulda done this during the Winter.


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## pndwind (Feb 17, 2013)

How about the top and bottom edge?


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## CtyAcres (Apr 8, 2012)

sqkcrk- Have your son put a second coat on those boxes or you'll regret it. Also Zinsser manufactures the product
Woodlife that I use, you can't beat that for a seal coat before you stain or when finishing with a coat of paint. 
Wood Life has excellent sealing properties for soaking those corners.
PS Wood life only costs about $16/gal at Ace Hardware I believe.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

So that's something you apply, and let dry I assume, before painting two coats?

How much longer will all this painting extend the life of the boxes? (Asks the corner cutter.  )


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## CtyAcres (Apr 8, 2012)

sqkcrk- Apply once, double coating the corners as you go along. Let thoroughly dry and apply one coat of finish.
Apply two coats if you plan on living to be 80yr old, or you will probably move them thru sales before that.
Can't cut any better than that.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Thanks, never really painted much before. Never really built that much equipment either. Been beekeeping a while and lots of stuff I have avoided.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

We only get 12 inches of rain a year. I double coat and use no primer with best quality mistinted housepaint and the job lasts until worn off by rubbing or scratching.


JRG13 said:


> Anyone notices differences between flat/semigloss/etc.. as far as durability goes, especially with rain exposure?


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## Jed (Feb 23, 2013)

ok guys I guess I will share what I do 
I use an electric sprayer works great for me , I normally would put 1 coat of primer and 2 coats of paint but this year I did about half with 1 coat of primer and 1 coat of paint ,mainly cuz I need to get the boxes out of the shop and most of them are going to be used for supers (in my area that means they r in the weather for about 3 to 4 months) 
for the ,most part I agree with what has been said 

One thing you have to consider also is the climate you live in 
warmer more moist areas are probably going to see boxes rot much faster 

Also I want to note in the 9 years ive had bees I havnt had any boxes rot out on the corners ,the first place I see rot is the bottom box on a hive, on the side that faces inward (I run all 4-way pallets ) but yes in theory the corners will suck up more moisture than any other area


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## dynemd (Aug 27, 2013)

By "electric" are we referring to an airless paint sprayer? Also what does everyone prefer gloss, semi-gloss or flat paint?


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## Colino (May 28, 2013)

dynemd said:


> By "electric" are we referring to an airless paint sprayer? Also what does everyone prefer gloss, semi-gloss or flat paint?


Okay I know I'm going to get hammered for this post, but I scavenged some cans of Tremclad, Rustoleum and Cloverdale metal paints and primers. I put on a coat of primer and 1 or 2 coats of these paints. The coverage and durability of these paints are astounding. It is like putting a coat of plastic on each box. They shed water and because of the viscosity of the paint they seal holes and cracks very well. I would have left the paints in the scrap bin if a salesclerk at Rona hadn't pointed out to me one time that Tremclad is/was recommended for wood, when I was buying paint for my grandsons sleigh. I have some Nucs and queen castles that I've only given 1 top coat and they seem to be fine. The only problem I've had was I tried putting a coat of Latex over the oil paint and I have some air bubbles showing up on those boxes. I buy paint brushes and rollers from the dollar store so I don't bother cleaning them, I just toss them after I use them but by storing the wet brush/rollers in a plastic bag I can get a few days out of them before they get hard. The bees don't seem to care and don't appear to be being harmed, judging by the strength of my hives.
Colino


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

CtyAcres said:


> sqkcrk- Have your son put a second coat on those boxes or you'll regret it. Also Zinsser manufactures the product
> Woodlife that I use, you can't beat that for a seal coat before you stain or when finishing with a coat of paint.
> Wood Life has excellent sealing properties for soaking those corners.
> PS Wood life only costs about $16/gal at Ace Hardware I believe.


Just to be clear. I should have a second coat of paint applied to what is already painted. What is not yet painted should get a coat of Woodlife, allowed to dry (24 hrs?), and then painted (one coat or two?). Right? Is that my assignment?

Thanks. Something new for me.


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## CtyAcres (Apr 8, 2012)

Sqkcrk- Yes. Yes, Yes, & Yes. And don't use a airless spray rig, you have to put 3 or 4 coats of spray to equal 1 or 2 coats
of paint, hand brushed. Good luck. Sorry for the extra WORK! Smile
PS The key to longevity is those jointed corners just make sure you hit them well!


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I don't have a sprayer. Rollers and brushes. Can I apply the Woodlife w/ a roller? What about clean up.

I like stapling and gluing more than painting. Once I am finished stapling as many boxes as I want to I can set down the gun and walk away. Not so painting. The price we pay, I guess.


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## CtyAcres (Apr 8, 2012)

Use an 8" roller, toss when finished.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

A ok


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

You will find a heavier nap roller will do a much better job of pushing paint into the gaps and recesses. With older equipment we like to stack them 8 high and use a power sprayer to clean them and remove loose paint and debris. In the right conditions they can be primed within an hour or so. A pneumatic nailer or stapler can then be used to stiffen up the joints where nails are loose. It's a good idea to put a non cleated lid on the top box to keep them dry and free of paint mist.


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## pndwind (Feb 17, 2013)

pndwind said:


> How about the top and bottom edge?


???


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## CtyAcres (Apr 8, 2012)

pndwind- Nope, bees take care of that.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

We paint and/or treat the bottom edges of the sides of hive bodies. That is the weak spot when you have side by side hives on pallet clips.


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## pndwind (Feb 17, 2013)

jim lyon said:


> We paint and/or treat the bottom edges of the sides of hive bodies. That is the weak spot when you have side by side hives on pallet clips.


Is a roller the quickest way to do the edge or is there a quicker way?


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## Kamon A. Reynolds (Apr 15, 2012)

Thanks everyone for the broad and informative conversation. These type of threads are why beesource is cool.

I have been using 2 coats a box all year and have been wondering for a while what the general consensus was. I like the roller on the corner idea. Even though I really try to hit the corners hard with the sprayer it just needs a little more. My boxes are all rabbit joints. I might post a picture if I can figure it out.


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## My-smokepole (Apr 14, 2008)

I like the Wooster 4" roller. It has a little cages, so it is just like a normal roller. It is small enough that it is easy to use and manipulate. And move a box at the same time.


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## HungryBear (May 28, 2012)

I basically do what was said early, put them in a stack and spray, start with corners, then the flats & repeat both 1 more time.

I use the $20 spray from TSC. When I am done, I raise it out and drop it into a bucket of water for storage. Once its gunked up, toss it and buy another.


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## Kamon A. Reynolds (Apr 15, 2012)

Another question. Say I got a great high end quality paint for real cheap (which I did $220 a 5 gallon bucket at full price) but it is a dark color. Would you place it underneath and cover with a lighter paint that was a good paint but not as good or would you mix it to lighten the color?


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

That is pricy paint! I don't go much darker than a forest green myself and I am north of the 48th parallel. What kid of paint has an asking price of over $40 a gallon? Is it made by Coach or Chanel?


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## dynemd (Aug 27, 2013)

Behr Marquee $220 for 5 gallons. I use it in semi-gloss ultra white on my boxes.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Why'd you do that?


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## Billy Joe Adair (Mar 28, 2008)

We spray primer, then roll corners and brush handle areas. We then spray finish with top coat.


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## TVBeek (Apr 25, 2014)

When using exterior latex, has anyone experienced having the paint on the box mating edges stick together? I'm talking to the degree that separation is difficult. Is there a remedy?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I use Valspar lately and boy do they stick together. Stacking them outdoors and leaving them in the weather a while seems to let them break their bond. Though that could just be my imagination.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

A hive tool separates boxes nicely


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Match sticks in between may help


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

TVBeek, are you talking about after you have them stacked on the hive rather than when you paint?

Mark, I've been using Valspar for the last three years and boxes will stick together the first year. After using for a season they seem to do ok. Gotta get a little propolis, wax, sweat, dust, etc., on them I guess. If you stack them together while you paint and let them dry edge against edge you need a deadblow hammer or a 2x4 to knock'em apart! I use the premium with primer, though I put a coat of Zinsser on first. I figure this is probably the only coat of paint they will ever get and it coats/seals them well and the boxes painted three years ago are holding up great. I use a brush. It goes without saying, though, that I don't have anywhere near the amount of equipment to paint as you commercial guys do and can take longer to paint each box.

Ed


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I would like to thin my Valspar a little to paint the corners and handholds. What should I use? Water? Will a cpl coats of thinned Valspar penetrate the end grain better?


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## pndwind (Feb 17, 2013)

sqkcrk said:


> I would like to thin my Valspar a little to paint the corners and handholds. What should I use? Water? Will a cpl coats of thinned Valspar penetrate the end grain better?


It should have a statement on the back of the bucket about proper thinning.


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## pndwind (Feb 17, 2013)

sqkcrk said:


> I use Valspar lately and boy do they stick together. Stacking them outdoors and leaving them in the weather a while seems to let them break their bond. Though that could just be my imagination.


I also have this issue. I have been told that if the paint sticks it has not fully cured.


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## dynemd (Aug 27, 2013)

I use the Behr Marquee and even after a week of drying it will still stick together (It would make a fine glue). I rub both top and bottom edges with a pound block of beeswax, works great.


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## TVBeek (Apr 25, 2014)

intheswamp, yeah I'm talking about on the hive. I use valspar. To paint I separate the boxes with 1 bys cut to fit the frame perch. I have about a 1/2" gap between the boxes. Some paint does get on the
mating edges. It sticks almost as good as glue. I like the idea of the bees wax. I tried crisco on the edges and it helps. Wax sounds like a better way.


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## CtyAcres (Apr 8, 2012)

If you guys are INTENT upon finishing those edges see post #10.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Right, Woodlife. $16.00/gallon at Ace Hardware.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

CtyAcres said:


> sqkcrk- Have your son put a second coat on those boxes or you'll regret it. Also Zinsser manufactures the product
> Woodlife that I use, you can't beat that for a seal coat before you stain or when finishing with a coat of paint.
> Wood Life has excellent sealing properties for soaking those corners.
> PS Wood life only costs about $16/gal at Ace Hardware I believe.


Ok, I went back and looked for it but could not find anything with "Woodlife" and "Zinsser" in its name.

Is this the same "Woodlife" that you're talking about? I see it associated with Rustoleum, Wolman and DAP,...
http://www.rustoleum.com/~/media/Di...life Classic Clear Wood Preservative TDS.ashx









Besides for priming bee boxes, I'm really interested in this as opposed to Zinsser primer for an old house with some badly weathered/dry woodtrim that I need to paint. Anybody want to help? 

Btw, they recommend three coats for edges.

Ed


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## CtyAcres (Apr 8, 2012)

ED- Yes that is the stuff. Zinsser name is on the back of that can. Zinsser kept lots of trade
names in place on the market.


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## pndwind (Feb 17, 2013)

Intheswamp said:


> Anybody want to help?
> 
> Ed


Only if it pays in bees!


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## Beetastic (Apr 12, 2011)

> And don't use a airless spray rig, you have to put 3 or 4 coats of spray to equal 1 or 2 coats
> of paint, hand brushed.


Sorry, this is untrue. I used to be a licensed paint contractor. 

If you have a sprayer, use it. Be sure to backroll on your first coat to get all the paint into the wood. It's dry and thirsty. And yes, the corners are very important to backroll. Sometimes I backroll corners the second time around. But for the flat sides, once you've backrolled once, you are good to spray, using a 50% overlap technique. You will get all the coverage you need. It's a falsity that you want super thick paint; you want the proper amount so it can do its job.


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## dixiebooks (Jun 21, 2010)

TVBeek said:


> When using exterior latex, has anyone experienced having the paint on the box mating edges stick together? I'm talking to the degree that separation is difficult. Is there a remedy?


I used to have that happen every time, but no more. Now, before I put the box into service, I rub beeswax along the top and bottom. they no longer stick to each other. -james


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## RAK (May 2, 2010)

Just a tip. Floetrol is a great product for thinning latex paints.


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## Ted (Feb 20, 2000)

dose any one wax dip there equipment


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>dose any one wax dip there equipment

I do.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesdipping.htm


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## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)

_Elevated levels of PCP and tin were found in bees and beeswax from hives treated with those preservatives. A detectable rise in copper content of honey was found in samples from hives treated with copper naphthenate. CCA treatment resulted in an increased arsenic content of bees from those hives. CCA, TBTO, and PCP treatments of beehives were associated with winter losses of colonies._
*Effect of Wood Preservative Treatment of Beehives on Honey Bees and Hive Products*
Martins A. Kalnins and Benjamin F. Detroy
J. Agric. Food Chem. 1984. 32, 1176-1180
http://128.104.77.228/documnts/pdf1984/kalni84a.pdf


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## Haraga (Sep 12, 2011)

Ted said:


> dose any one wax dip there equipment


Yes


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

Ted said:


> dose any one wax dip there equipment


.......and paint them while they are hot?

What paint do you use?


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## Ben Little (Apr 9, 2012)

I'm interested in dipping boxes and pallets (my pallets are pressure treated as well) I want maximum longevity of the equipment.
I inquired about buying the microcrystaline and paraffin from a couple of places and the price is a little crazy. I do know 1 beekeeper using his own beeswax and paraffin , seems like a good idea but again not cost effective if you can sell the wax for 2x the price of the dipping materials.
What are you all using and where can I get it in CANADA ?
Thanks


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## WilliesHoneyCo (Jun 23, 2013)

I just double coat with free paint from paint recycler down the road and it works just fine. Many hundreds of boxes done this way.


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## davidsbees (Feb 22, 2010)

I dip my pallets in asphalt roof primer thinned 50% then pressure wash and dip each time they come back in. I still have pallets I built in the 80's. As for hive bodies I dip in hot linseed oil with 20% pine rosin then two coats rustoleum with airless then hand brushed between coats then roll the edges and crisscross to dry. Some supers my dad in the late 50's are still around.


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## Crabo (Jan 17, 2012)

Any hints on prepping boxes that are pealing? I saw someone is using a power washer. I have always just sanded with an orbital sander before priming and painting. Some sand better than others.


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## Crabo (Jan 17, 2012)

I am going to try this. Home Depot says bring it back if I am not happy with the way it works.

http://www.wagnerspraytech.com/products/surface-prep/paint-remover/painteater/


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## davidsbees (Feb 22, 2010)

I have using a pressure washer let dry then a orbital sander to take the fuzz off


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