# First Bee Inspector Visit



## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

Got a call from my wife today while I was at work. She had gone home for lunch and found the inspector in the yard. He had just got there and apologized for not calling ahead but popped the tops off the hives and took a peek. My wife called me while he was looking at things and he was good enough to chat with me on the phone when he was done (I feel bad...he got a bee in his veil and got nailed!).

Told me that the hives looked in good shape with lots of healthy brood and a few mites as well . He was also very interested in the location of any local classes that had been held in the area because he wanted to touch base with mentors or teachers. I asked how other hives were doing and he said that he was seeing less mite related issues this year compared to last year although he thought that the honey stores were a little light compared to what he thought he would be seeing at this point.

I haven't seen it yet but he supposedly left a report on his visit. He commended me on the overall condition of the hives and commented that it was obvious that they were being attended to.

I felt pretty good about this surprise visit. I only wish I had been there so I could have asked a bunch of questions...like I do on these boards.

Just thought I'd share!


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## Oldbee (Sep 25, 2006)

Yup! It's always nice to get a GOOD REPORT from the INSPECTOR! I had mine early this year! Maybe the inspector knew you wouldn't be around and would be ASKING sooo! many questions.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

I think its a shame that you weren't contacted before the inspection. Any time my hives are opened I want to be present. Not only could you have been further educated, but there's a chance for hard feelings if something were to go wrong. I know that they are legally allowed to inspect, but there's little to gain and a lot to loose from going in to someone's hives unannounced. I'd call him back and ask for a curtisory call before the next inspection. Our inspectors are really good about contacting you before they inspect. Just my 2 cents.



Ravenseye said:


> I felt pretty good about this surprise visit. I only wish I had been there so I could have asked a bunch of questions...like I do on these boards.
> 
> Just thought I'd share!


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## Oldbee (Sep 25, 2006)

AstroBee: I agree with everything/point of view that you said. Sometimes though a beekeeper doesn't realize how BUSY an inspector is; and with reduced "funding" all around.


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## Jeffzhear (Dec 2, 2006)

Ravenseye said:


> "...although he thought that the honey stores were a little light compared to what he thought he would be seeing at this point.


I noticed that many of my late swarms are light also, so as of a few weeks ago I've been feeding them along with my summer splits and they've been really packing the 1 to 1 sugar to water away.


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## naturebee (Dec 25, 2004)

Ravenseye said:


> …She had gone home for lunch and found the inspector in the yard. He had just got there and apologized for not calling ahead but popped the tops off the hives and took a peek.
> 
> ...Told me that the hives looked in good shape with lots of healthy brood and a few mites as well . He was also very interested in the location of any local classes that had been held in the area because he wanted to touch base with mentors or teachers.


Glad to hear everything was fine!

BUT another perfect example of why I am a vocal opponent of laws which allow inspectors to enter a ‘law abiding’ beekeepers property without prior notice! 

For a guy that is interested in touching base with teachers and mentors, he seemed to have little interest towards teaching you with ’hands on learning’.

You know from this inspection what ‘he told you’. But missed a perfect opportunity to ’teach you’ and ’show you’ one on one. 

A perfect waste of taxpayers money and teaching opportunity.


Joe Waggle ~ Derry, PA 
‘Bees Gone Wild Apiaries' 
FeralBeeProject.com


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## chief (Apr 19, 2005)

I would be more than a little upset with an inspector coming onto my property and inspecting my hives without my approval. I may not want him messing with my experiments or using his contaminated equipment and tools in my hives. Man I would be angry!! We used to have one inspector for the whole state but for some reason they got rid of the position. Pretty soon “they” will be coming in your house unannounced to make sure you made your bed or something!


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## naturebee (Dec 25, 2004)

--I may not want him messing with my experiments-(Chief)

Experiments?


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## chief (Apr 19, 2005)

naturebee said:


> --I may not want him messing with my experiments-(Chief)
> 
> Experiments?



Yes you caught me! I am working on my new Frankenstein bee!!! Now if I could just get the lightning to strike just right . . . .


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## JohnBeeMan (Feb 24, 2004)

AstroBee said:


> . Our inspectors are really good about contacting you before they inspect. Just my 2 cents.



AstroBee, I was not aware that the Virginia inspectors every did unannounced inspections.

Since I had Keith Tignor (State Inspector) in my bee yard on a recent queen raising workshop (he now knows where I live), I guess I can expect the unexpected .


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

In most states, bee law states that an inspector has a right to inspect, etc. That part is essential for the program, and without it, an inspection program would be ineffective.

The law is one thing. How it is effectively run is another. Any inspector should, as most programs allow, make phone calls or send a post card annoucing one's intentions. This allows for contact to be made so the beekeeper can be present.

I probably had a beekeeper present in over 95% of my inspections. The other 5% were those who had no problem with me "popping in" at my convenience. I used the opportunity to learn from others as much as I was there to help others.

I never felt comfortable walking around someones property, other than to the front door to knock and leave my card. Dogs, liability, and other factors make it not worth it to do inspections unannounced, and without the beekeeper present. And most times I would of never found the hives anyways on some of the larger farms. What a waste of time if one can't find the hives.

Some states lost funding for bee programs in budget cuts. Other states lost the support and backing of the beekeeping industry, and lost thier program because of it. Inspectors finding afb and dealing with it without beekeepers present, charges of killed or missing queens, and other allegations, should make any inspector think twice about walking around someone's property unannounced.

Anyone who has inspectors just stopping in unannounced should talk with the chief apiarist for the state. And make sure your inspection card in marked requesting you be present for any and all inspections.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

BjornBee said:


> And make sure your inspection card is marked requesting you be present for any and all inspections.


A great recommendation. This is what I do and it works just fine. When sending in my registration and apiary fees in the spring I'll just make a brief note on the card that I would like to be present at the inspection... and here are my phone numbers. Works like a charm. 

My inspector seems to actually enjoy the company. You get the chance to ask questions about your colonies as he goes through them, and you can pick up on some local info too.


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## naturebee (Dec 25, 2004)

BjornBee said:


> In most states, bee law states that an inspector has a right to inspect, etc. That part is essential for the program, and without it, an inspection program would be ineffective.



Hello Mike!

I’m 100% in support of the inspection program. 
But that ‘law’ is occasionally used as an excuse to go tromping on private property without any attempt at noticing the owner, despite how easy it is to pick up a phone and call beforehand. 
There are other states with more beekeepers than PA that have a prior notice law, and inspectors there apparently are still capable of performing their duties with prior notice.

I consider tromping on someone’s property without reasonable attempt at making a prior notice, and abuse of the position and responsibilities entrusted to them. I know there is not a big problem with this in PA, but where it is not written in law, there is always potential for abuse and an amendment is IMO warranted. 

Another point is that a change in the law OR ’bylaws’ for prior notification would enhance communication with beekeepers and the education of them. In this day and age, with the advent of viruses, disease, and PA’s development of an AHB program, better communication and education is a vital component in the ability of the inspection program to keep on top of things. 

Dennis is well aware of my position on this. 

Joe Waggle ~ Derry, PA 
‘Bees Gone Wild Apiaries' 
FeralBeeProject.com


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## naturebee (Dec 25, 2004)

--And make sure your inspection card is marked requesting you be present for any and all inspections.--BjornBee 

Card? More like a half a page. 

I was unaware that Dennis added this to the inspection form.

I am aware that he’s had added a plethora of information that the inspector needs to check in each colony. My inspector was griping about them, but still checked every item. 

And also griping that the dang GPS didn’t work. 

A pain no doubt to fill out the detailed inspection card. But I can see that when assembled, it can provide valuable information for the Department. 

Best Wishes,

Joe Waggle ~ Derry, PA 
‘Bees Gone Wild Apiaries' 
FeralBeeProject.com


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

OK....here's some more info.

He was in the area due to a problem in the next town over. I'm not sure what it was. I had registered with the state in May of 2006 but had never received a visit. He's from about 60 miles away and dropped in on me and a beek about a mile away. He had not planned on opening the hives until my wife pulled up. She asked him if he could call me after he was done and he agreed. She called me.....he opened the hives and then we chatted.

The written report was that:

- I have two hives
- The equipment is in good condition
- The colonies are strong
- The brood is in good shape
- There are adequate stores
- I have Varroa mites

He recommended that I pull a drone brood frame from my newest hive since he found it nearly all capped and suggested that now would be a good time to swap it out. He told my wife that there was a good amount of honey in my strong hive. He also left me his cell phone number.

All in all, I was happy. My wife was nervous about the visit until he indicated that he wasn't there to respond to a problem.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

JohnBeeMan,

I'm pretty sure that they do have the right to do unannounced inspections, but as I said, they are very good about contacting before showing up. I've been inspected several times and each time was contacted before to setup a convenient date and time. Overall, a very professional group.



JohnBeeMan said:


> AstroBee, I was not aware that the Virginia inspectors every did unannounced inspections.
> 
> Since I had Keith Tignor (State Inspector) in my bee yard on a recent queen raising workshop (he now knows where I live), I guess I can expect the unexpected .


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## moonlightbeekeeper (Jul 4, 2007)

*Frankenbee*



chief said:


> Yes you caught me! I am working on my new Frankenstein bee!!! Now if I could just get the lightning to strike just right . . . .


 The test is on will "frank" bee able to fend off mites and shb????


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## Gregg (Dec 22, 2003)

I was an inspector in my state during the Summers of 1988 - 1993. Keeping in mind that we are primarily a commercial, migratory state with very few hobby beekeepers, probably 90% of my inspections were unannounced. Probably 100% for the first year or two when I didn't know any of the beekeepers. After that I contacted the beekeepers who wanted to be around during the inspection, but that number was very few, as most were too busy, not around, or the distance to travel was too great. Also keep in mind that for probably 99% of the beeyards in this state, the landowner is not the beekeeper.


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## BerkeyDavid (Jan 29, 2004)

In Ohio the inspectors do not have any duty to inform you in advance, nor is there any place on the form to ask to be notified. 

Our inspector does try to meet with new beekeepers the first year or so to make sure they understand things, but after that you are on your own.


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## beaglady (Jun 15, 2004)

I've been inspected twice since I've had bees. Both times the inspectors called ahead and were quite accomodating in choosing a time so that I could be present. This is in PA & them most recent was just 3 weeks ago. 

I mentioned to the inspector that I'd like to be there, so he made me his first stop of the day & was there for almost 2 hours. He did sugar rolls on all 9 hives & didn't get any mites. I'm mentioning this for the eternal naysayers who always want mite counts for small cell, lol.


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## naturebee (Dec 25, 2004)

BerkeyDavid said:


> In Ohio the inspectors do not have any duty to inform you in advance, nor is there any place on the form to ask to be notified.



When these discussions about inspectors occur they always some that Interpret the discussion WRONG come to the defense. But keep in mind I support the inspection program and love my beekeeping brethren local inspector. 

My point is strictly concerning >>>>how the laws are written.<<<<

Ohio has had beekeeper / trespassing complaints due to the warrant-less search law also:

In the April 1987 issue of the American Bee Journal, page 245-246, a federal appeals court has overturned an Ohio law that lets state inspectors examine beekeepers' hives without search warrants.

In a 2-1 decision, a three-judge panel of the 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that the Ohio Department of Agriculture's beehive inspection program is unconstitutional.

State agriculture officials argued that they need warrantless searches to maintain the element of surprise in inspections that single out diseased hives that could infect and destroy other bee populations.

State law allows the inspections without prior notice, without a warrant and outside the presence of the owners. The inspectors may burn hives and bee populations that are determined by laboratory tests to be diseased. Beekeepers are allowed five days to appeal such findings by the state before the hives are burned.

The appeals court's ruling sends the case back to U.S. District Court for further consideration. For its ruling, the appeals court consolidated two separate cases filed by beekeepers William and Caroline Allinder, of Gibsonburg, and Elmer and Marilyn Steiner, of Van Buren. They maintain beehives in Sandusky, Seneca, Wood, Putnam and Hardin counties.

The beekeepers contended that the warrantless searches violated the fourth amendment protection against unreasonable searches.

A majority of the three-judge panel rules that the warrantless searches allow the inspectors too much discretion. The majority noted that because of the degree of technical knowledge needed to make inspections, inspectors are often competitors of those they inspect and may sometimes have the responsibility to inspect their own apiaries.

I am not aware of the results from later appeals. 

Best Wishes,

Joe Waggle ~ Derry, PA 
‘Bees Gone Wild Apiaries' 
FeralBeeProject.com


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

OHIO REVISED CODE
CHAPTER 909. APIARY LAW

Section 909.05 Apiary entry; inspection purposes; search warrant.

To enforce sections 909.01 to 909.18 of the Revised Code, the director of agriculture or his authorized representatives, during daylight hours, shall have access to and egress from any apiary or to any premises, buildings, or any other place, public or private, in which he has reason to believe that bees, including Africanized honey bees, honey, wax, used hives, or used equipment is kept. During the inspection, the director or his representative may inspect bee colonies to determine their condition and health, take samples for disease diagnosis or race determination, decide if live colonies exist for apiary registration purposes, and control or eradicate serious bee diseases and Africanized honey bees.

If the director or his representative is denied access to any premises where access is sought for the purposes of this section, he may apply to any court of competent jurisdiction for a search warrant authorizing access to the premises for those purposes. The court, upon receiving the application, may issue the search warrant for the purposes requested.


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## FordGuy (Jul 10, 2005)

Ravenseye said:


> Got a call from my wife today while I was at work. She had gone home for lunch and found the inspector in the yard. He had just got there and apologized for not calling ahead but popped the tops off the hives and took a peek. My wife called me while he was looking at things and he was good enough to chat with me on the phone when he was done (I feel bad...he got a bee in his veil and got nailed!).
> 
> Told me that the hives looked in good shape with lots of healthy brood and a few mites as well . He was also very interested in the location of any local classes that had been held in the area because he wanted to touch base with mentors or teachers. I asked how other hives were doing and he said that he was seeing less mite related issues this year compared to last year although he thought that the honey stores were a little light compared to what he thought he would be seeing at this point.
> 
> ...



what the holy hell? some guy is on YOUR property popping lids off your hives? unannounced? uninvited? I'd be the one popping a top


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

Keep in mind that, last year, I knowingly registered with the state, understanding that they would have the right to view my hives.


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## naturebee (Dec 25, 2004)

Mike Gillmore said:


> OHIO REVISED CODE
> CHAPTER 909. APIARY LAW
> 
> If the director or his representative is denied access to any premises where access is sought for the purposes of this section, he may apply to any court of competent jurisdiction for a search warrant authorizing access to the premises for those purposes. The court, upon receiving the application, may issue the search warrant for the purposes requested.


So there is an OPTION for the homeowner to refuse access!
That’s great!!! Way to go OHIO!
Now we need to get PA protecting our rights also. 

The fourth amendment up held!

Glad to see Fordguy also standing up for the fourth amendment! 

Joe Waggle ~ Derry, PA 
‘Bees Gone Wild Apiaries' 
FeralBeeProject.com


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## BerkeyDavid (Jan 29, 2004)

There has been some change in Ohio since the case cited above. When you register your hives you can check a box that says you do not want your hives inspected.\


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## EKW (Feb 2, 2005)

I had a really fun experience with the bee inspector in Minnesota a couple of years ago. Brought 24 hives up from Florida, called the woman in charge of the apiary division of the Dept of Ag ahead of time to inquire about a permit, etc. She never got it together to issue a permit, but while we were in Fl the bee inspector left a message asking us to call to arrange for an inspection when we arrived back in Mn. We did so and set a time for the inspection. The guy never showed up, did not call to cancel the appointment, but then showed up unannounced later in the week. We had a few SHB in the hives, which we knew about and had discussed with the Fl bee inspector before leaving Fl. The Mn inspector flipped out- told us there had never been SHB in MN (a lie- and this was documented on the internet), went to the local commercial beekeepers and told them we had brought a plague of SHB which were going to put everyone out of business (not his exact words, but to that effect). We hadn't even met the local beekeepers yet as I was new to the state at the time. I had had years of experience with SHB in Fl and knew that they would not establish here- we have really sandy soil, cold winters, etc. (The state extension apiarist later voiced the same opinion and wondered what all the fuss was about). It was just a matter of pulling the honey and treating the hives, no big deal.

We wound up buying some empty barrels from one of the local commercial guys as we had 82 supers of honey to extract and nothing to put it in. The guy filled us in on what the inspector had told him and the others guys, and told us how the inspector got them all wound up about it. We were livid, contacted our attorney, who then wrote a cease and desist letter to the Dept of Ag. Included in the letter was a request that in the future the inspector notify us within 24 hours in advance of any visits, as was provided for in the state statutes. Our concern was not that we had anything to hide, but rather that we had 2 large dogs who, although not aggressive, would tear our house apart whenever someone drove in the driveway (next to the house), if we were not at home. We explained that to the inspector but the guy was not interested- he continued to show up without giving proper notice even after we had asked him not to.

He came once to check that we had started treatments, no problem there. But, a week later he came and brought along a colleague from the Pesticide enforcement div and issued an embargo against the sale of any honey from our hives. He claimed that we were in violation of the pesticide label laws- reason? Because after pulling 84 supers we discovered that one medium box had brood in it, and one of the brood boxes was an odd size (3/4 deep). We wanted to get rid of the brood and so we put the two boxes back on the hives above queen excluders. Now, it seemed to me that upon inspection it would have been pretty obvious to any beekeeper what my intentions were. But, just in case it wasn't, and knowing that the pesticide guy was not a beekeeper, I went to great lengths to explain exactly what I was doing with the boxes. I explained that I intended to get rid of the old, black wax in the boxes after the brood had finished hatching. I explained about the odd sized box and that I wanted it out of my inventory. I explained that it was still early in the spring and that there was no honey flow on yet, etc etc etc. All to no avail. They served the embargo and left.

We tried repeatedly to get in contact with the higher ups in the dept, but no one would even talk to us about it. All they would say was that "we get our information from the bee inspector". Well, what do you do when the bee inspector is a liar? And incompetent to boot? This guy went through my hives and put boxes on backwards, left frames crooked and improperly spaced in the boxes, and made a real mess. I was really tweaked because I had put on new boxes with new foundation and was trying to transition from single deeps to triples for the winter and I wanted the wax drawn properly.

The biggest joke of all was this- they placed an embargo against the sale of honey from the hives- what honey? Every hive had 2 deeps of new frames to draw and fill before winter- we never had a surplus! And I explained that to the bee inspector as well, but of course, he wasn't interested in facts. He kept insisting that any box above the QE HAD to be a honey super and therefore we were in violation. What a moron. When I think of the waste of taxpayer dollars that went into that little charade it makes my blood just boil!

So, although I have always been in favor of bee inspections, and think they serve a valuable and necessary service, I went to that year's state beekeepers convention and argued against continuing the inspection program (there was already a discussion in the works about discontinuing it). I did not, and still do not think that we need to have an incompetent bungler running around inventing violations where they have not occurred. Now, if the state wanted to hire a professional who was honest and knew what he was doing I'd be all for it, but the way the program was being run at the time was a waste, and worse than useless.

Ultimately the mandatory inspection program was discontinued, though inspections are available for the migratory beekeepers who request them. But, the Commissioner of Agriculture (and his agents) have the right to enter any private property at any time if they say they even suspect that you might have bees- they have very broad powers issued in the intereste of "public safety". Apparently they can make up whatever story they want in order to justify their actions- even if we had no bees they could still come onto the property looking for them. I would not have a problem with that if they were acting in good faith, but since both the apiary inspector and the pesticide guy lied to us, we don't have a lot of confidence in them.

In my case, the embargo was lifted after I wrote to Keith Delaplane, Jerry Hayes, Bayer Pharmacueticals, and the Beltsville Bee Lab with a detailed description of what I was doing, and why. I received written communiques from each of them confirming that my management was exactly correct. I then forwarded those letters, along with photocopies of pages from Marla Spivak's beekeepng text (well, the one she uses in her short course at the U of M), and photos of our apiary taken on the day of the inspection, and sent all of that to 4 different department heads within the Minn Dept of Ag. A few days later they lifted the embargo. Later that year the apiary inspection program was discontinued (not because of this incident, but due to other factors, mostly) and I have not heard from them since. But, I have done a lot of legal groundwork just in case they ever decide to hassle us again. I'm not too concerned about the possibility, but that whole incident left me with a few lingering questions- namely, who protects the innocent when government officials run amok?


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

BerkeyDavid said:


> There has been some change in Ohio since the case cited above. When you register your hives you can check a box that says you do not want your hives inspected.\


This is true. But I wonder if it may heighten suspicion within the inspection community? And if complaints are received about the purity of this beekeepers honey products or the suspected ill-health of their colonies, then the Dept of Ag has the option to secure a search warrant and inspect any or all parts of an operation.

Ohio has eased up quite a bit.... but if you happen to become a target, for whatever reason, there's no stopping them. It's a very delicate balancing act protecting individual rights and also protecting the public from one who may be practicing unethical techniques that have the potential to inflict harm on others, physically or financially.

I'm satisfied that Ohio has found a good middle ground stance and if decent people are managing the system then it's a plus for everyone.


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## naturebee (Dec 25, 2004)

Mike Gillmore said:


> This is true. But I wonder if it may heighten suspicion within the inspection community?


Hello Mike,

I don’t think it does.
I confronted State Apiarist Dennis Van,,, himself on several occasions concerning the access laws and other items. Dennis is very understanding and has personally inspected my colonies when asked. I see no increased suspicion or retribution at all from any inspector, just consideration for my concerns.



Mike Gillmore said:


> And if complaints are received about the purity of this beekeepers honey products or the suspected ill-health of their colonies, then the Dept of Ag has the option to secure a search warrant and inspect any or all parts of an operation.


I think that would be an DOA issue. 
The apiary inspection program is ONLY concerned by law about enforcement of AFB prevention as far as I am aware. There likely will be upcoming laws concerning AHB to be included in the inspection program, but to my knowledge the apiary inspection program has no authority to make you treat for mites or inspect your packing areas.


Joe Waggle ~ Derry, PA 
‘Bees Gone Wild Apiaries' 
FeralBeeProject.com


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

The Ohio case that got things stirred up there happened about 20 some years ago when a County Apiary Inspector went onto private property, inspected some beehives, found AFB and burned the bees and equipment w/out communicating w/ the beekeeper. What a dope. 

Criminal trespassing and destruction of property sure don't make for good relations between citizens and government officials.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

naturebee said:


> I think that would be an DOA issue.
> The apiary inspection program is ONLY concerned by law about enforcement of AFB prevention as far as I am aware.


Since the Apiary Division falls under the jurisdiction and is an extension of the DOA in Ohio I would consider them one and the same. The DOA is regulating the entire process, from the apiary to consumer sales. 

The following is taken from CHAPTER 909: APIARIES

"909.03 Control, eradication or prevention of bee diseases or spread of Africanized honey bees.
The director of agriculture may make and enforce such rules and orders as in his judgment are necessary to control, eradicate, or prevent the introduction, spread, or dissemination of any bee diseases or Africanized honey bees. No person shall fail to comply with the rules adopted under this section.

In the control or eradication of serious bee diseases, the director or his authorized representative shall diagnose the disease and recommend approved control options for it to the beekeeper. If a control is available to the beekeeper for the disease diagnosed but no attempt is made to implement a control within an appropriate time frame as determined by rule, the director may destroy by burning or otherwise any diseased bees, hives, honey, Africanized honey bees, or equipment that he considers necessary for such control or eradication, without remuneration to the owner. Such diseased bees, hives, honey, Africanized honey bees, and equipment are a public nuisance."





naturebee said:


> but to my knowledge the apiary inspection program has no authority to make you treat for mites or inspect your packing areas.


Chapter 3715
Ohio Food, Drug, Cosmetic and Device Law

3715.03 Right of Entry to Make Inspection

The director of agriculture, in performing duties under this chapter, may enter a creamery, factory, store salesroom, pharmacy, laboratory, or other place where the director believes or has reason to believe drugs, food or drink is made, prepared, dispensed, sold, or offered for sale; to examine the books therein; and open a cask, tub, jar, bottle, or other package containing or supposed to contain a drug or an article of food or drink and examine the contents or cause them to be examined and analyzed.


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## naturebee (Dec 25, 2004)

Mike,
Your first response essentially repeated what I was saying:
“The apiary inspection program is ONLY concerned by law about enforcement of AFB prevention as far as I am aware and maybe AHB”

===
Mike Writes:
Chapter 3715
Ohio Food, Drug, Cosmetic and Device Law
3715.03 Right of Entry to Make Inspection
===

Mike this law as I can tell, is in reference to the DOA and not the apiary inspection program which is only concerned with AFB and AHB in the apiary. The DOA has their own inspectors to handle food handling.

Apiary inspectors are beekeepers not DOA agents, besides having no authority in food handling laws, the apiary program does not train them in such things or expect these duties from them. 


Joe Waggle ~ Derry, PA 
‘Bees Gone Wild Apiaries' 
FeralBeeProject.com


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Have you ever seen those undercover reports on puppymills? How they can catch things on film when "nobody" is watching?

Does it make you feel good to know that with a certain amount of confidence, your food supply is safe.

Recently we had a discussion about organic certification and the possibilities of a random type inspection program involving pulling jars from a store shelf. Seemed some felt that could be a workable option.

I really wonder how safe restuarants would be if the inspectors would have a period of time to prior announce a upcoming inspection. Say three day notice with time and date appointments. How those puppy mills would have everything just spotless. Boy how so many things can be cleaned up.

I know when I certified my honey house, I knew they could pop in anytime. I understand the abuse if they had not this ability to stop in anytime.

Most inspection programs were set up years ago when afb was much more rampant then today. Through education (much helped with state inspection programs), and the enforcement of the inspection program, afb and bee industry problems has seen a better time than prior to these programs.

But can we have it both ways? On one hand, beekeepers going before congress qouting comments abut the collapse of the food industry without bees. How 1 in 3 bites of food are due to bees. How we demand and expect for the same funding or consideration as other agriculture businesses. But on the other hand, we expect that inspectors should give prior notice. That the inspection program is worthless. That its not worth finding anything worth caring about.

I announced all my inspections. Does it make you feel good to know that in a good number of these inspections, I would find dead spots in the grass or a spot on a hive stand, that obviously had a hive just hours if not days prior? Its not too hard to figure out what happened. Would you feel good knowing its your nieghbor who was hiding afb hives on another part of the farm away from an inspectors eyes? Does it make you feel good to know that your nieghbor has potential desease and pests, and yet his inspection report was given good report with nothing found, after having days to move bad hives?

I know the best inspection program in the world is when you can spot check something without prior notice. I want that from the place that slaughters my meat. I want that from the place I buy my milk. And I understand why its that way when they inspect my operation.

But a bunch of beekeepers after crying how important the bee industry is to the countries food supply, also feels that keeping the industry as healthy and desease free as possible is not worth the same consideration as other areas of agriculture.

Seems like a bunch of whining and *****in to me.

You don't want someone just popping in...then be proactive and request an early inspection in the spring. Get to know your inspector. Work with the system instead of against it. And know that for not just bees, but for many things you consume and rely on, inspections are best when they are not prior notified.

This very forum on the home page has a story about the Addee operation. They were caught with their pants down when a unannounced surprise inspection revealed some violations. Oh how many of you heard about the situation and spoke badly about the addee's. How many of you acknowledged how this goes on with other operations? And how many of you were happy that someone actually looked at an industry problem that many of us are against. But if these inspectors gave the addee's days if not weeks to clean up their yards by announcing the inspection, it would of never happens. And I didn't hear one person cry and complain about the state inspectors performing randon inspections. Yeah right.......

I guess some feel that the addee's should of been able to keep the inspectors at bay for whatever time they wanted. Its easy. Don't answer the phone. Don't open the door. Say your busy till next week. With that setup....how effective would any program be?

Its written into most laws for a reason. And even with most of the states having these laws written this way....most programs are run effectively with notice given. We always look at potential of abuse from inspectors. I find that most abuse in the way of breaking the law in from the other end. And if the inspection programs, not just with bees , but inspection programs across the board, were not written the way they are, you would never find nothing. And we would not be better off for it.

You only need to go as far as the story on the beesource's homepage to see this abuse.

Go at it boys.....


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## naturebee (Dec 25, 2004)

BjornBee said:


> I announced all my inspections. Does it make you feel good to know that in a good number of these inspections, I would find dead spots in the grass or a spot on a hive stand, that obviously had a hive just hours if not days prior? Its not too hard to figure out what happened..


Hello Mike,
You are giving a hypothetical here. 
You boss Dennis did not ask me where the hives were in the vacant spaces where cement blocks are when he visited me. He knows hive numbers vary from time to time, and is trusting of us law abiding beekeepers. 



BjornBee said:


> Would you feel good knowing its your nieghbor who was hiding afb hives on another part of the farm away from an inspectors eyes? Does it make you feel good to know that your nieghbor has potential desease and pests, and yet his inspection report was given good report with nothing found, after having days to move bad hives?..


Again, hypothetical. I don’t know of any beekeeper that does that or heard of such instances. Maybe it may happen, but is probably the very rare exception. 

From what I am seeing is you would be better off worrying about people registering apiaries, which IMO is much more abused than the sneaky law breaking beekeepers hiding AFB infected hives that you say are out there. 



BjornBee said:


> You don't want someone just popping in...then be proactive and request an early inspection in the spring. Get to know your inspector. Work with the system instead of against it. And know that for not just bees, but for many things you consume and rely on, inspections are best when they are not prior notified.



As most often occurs, inspectors on the list get offended. The intent of the prior notice is so the beekeeper can be present to learn and have communication between them and the inspector. If you wish to go on unannounced searches to catch lawbreakers that is fine, but for law abiding citizens deserve be there with the inspector. 

Why does your boss Dennis understand this and not you? 


Joe Waggle ~ Derry, PA 
‘Bees Gone Wild Apiaries' 
FeralBeeProject.com


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

well, a bad inspector is probably as harmful as a bad anything (teacher, engineer, etc)...you don't want one around.

i had the oppurtunity to go around for a day with our inspector (who is excelent). most sites were 1-3 hives, either started this year from packages, or older and poorly cared for. there were also exceptions....hives kept by good beekeepers that were well managed.  for most around here, beekeeping is a hobby, and the owners were not at home. it was a busy day, hopping from one site to another...i've always wondered why the inspector isn't more sociable when inspecting my hives (never accepts a cup of coffee or a snack...which is way out of charictor for him)....he is just too darn busy, and making (and keeping) appointments would certainly cut down on the number of hives he can inspect in a day. he will make appointments if pressed.

granted, in theory i'd like to see permission or a search warrent...but in practical terms, we saw a hive (less than a mile from over 20 of my hives) that was falling apart, dangerously leaning, missing frames (but plenty of burr comb to fill in the gaps) no bottom board, sitting on a rotting pallet on top of old tires with 4 full honey supers on....two of us kept the hive stable while the inspector took it apart to inspect. inside? afb, efb, chalkbood, sacbrood.....next to a deadout full of candycanes (supposedly menthol for mite control) and waxmoths, being robbed out by yellow jackets. the owner had moved the hive to this location as a "hospital yard" (tens of miles from his healthy hives....less than a mile from mine...very considerate), was on vacation, had treated in the past, but needed to treat again (as afb was visible). do i really want the inspector to wait for permission to inspect this hive? in fact, i went back to pull a frame from this hive (at the inspectors request) in order to be able to show it at a bee meeting, as it's rare to see afb around here these days....when this inpsector started in the mid seventies, there was mid double digit percentage of afb in the county (hive burnings every night of the week)...this year, 2 hives out of over 1200 inspected.

i was suprised at the "rights" one gives up if one has bees, but as a beekeeper, i can't find fault with how it is implemented here. of course this is due more to the inspector than due to the way the law is written. i'm sure that not all inspectors are created equal, but even if we had a bad inspector, i sure would want to know about an afb hive full of honey waiting to tip over near my hives.

deknow


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## naturebee (Dec 25, 2004)

deknow said:


> i've always wondered why the inspector isn't more sociable when inspecting my hives (never accepts a cup of coffee or a snack...which is way out of charictor for him)....he is just too darn busy, and making (and keeping) appointments would certainly cut down on the number of hives he can inspect in a day. he will make appointments if pressed.
> 
> deknow


Hello Deknow,

Our inspector seems to schedule in such a way he spends as much time as we need together in the hives. Then by making appointments with me, I am there to give directions to the next beekeeper OR have him follow me there and I turn and drive home to permit total confidentiality with the beekeeper being inspected.

If I recall he keeps almost 1000 colonies but is still capable of inspecting a several county area and spending time with each beekeeper. 

Of course I find myself watching closely over his shoulder and stealing colony handling techniques. This year I stole his technique for inspecting colonies with minimal disturbance.  Intresting what you can pick up from just observing. 

Joe Waggle ~ Derry, PA 
‘Bees Gone Wild Apiaries' 
FeralBeeProject.com


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Hypothetical my butt Joe!

My wife works in the medical industry. Do you not think people run around the nursing home and hospital when someone annouces that the state inspectors walked in the front door and are taking a few minutes to talk to the administrator prior to walking on the floor?

Do you think that cooks and restuarant personal aren't feverishly cleaning up crap and moving boxes when the first person greets the inspector at the establishments door and asks they wait while the manager is called upon?

I actually was standing in the lobby of Dutch Gold Honey this year when the inspector "popped" in. The office lady asked very nicely that he sign in and wait till the manager could be free. For the next 20 minutes he was "finishing" up with a phone call. Yeah right.

Anyone honest enough to admit it would do things a little different regardless of the business, if you knew ahead of time that an inspector was showing up tomorrow morning. I'm not suggesting that people are breaking laws. But perhaps a box moved here, some cleanup there, something moved out of site there, something shoved in a closet over there....it happens all the time.

But your fantasyland view of beekeeping is of a utopian industry that this does not occur in. Your telling me I have seen it in every business I have ever been in, but beekeepers are different? Hogwash!

If addee's knew the inspectors were showing up to look for pesticide misuse as you somehow think inspectors should do, no violations would of been found. I use an example thats been posted on this site for months, and yet you suggest that my own experience with hives moved just prior to me arriving is purely "hypothetical", and sugget that this could not be the case.

You got me laughing good.

BTW, Dennis is not my boss.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

I will add Joe, that Dennis does understand why the law is written the way it is. He also knows the importance of keeping harmony and on the good side of beekeepers. His policy is that beekeepers be notified. But he also tells his inspectors that once a card has been mailed, once multiple phone calls are made, and once no response is received by the beekeeper (which does happen, with sometimes open opposition)....he has no problem telling an inspector to pop in and do the inspection. He may of "suggested" something different to you on the phone. Thats called "office politics". But perhaps you think that does not go on either....  

I don't think my view is different from Dennis' I know what the law allows. So does he. I know how Dennis administers it. He agrees that beekeepers should be present, as do I. Thats how I did it.
But Dennis also knows why the law is stated the way it is. And without it, the program would grind to a halt. And the true intent of the program would be lost.


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## naturebee (Dec 25, 2004)

[


BjornBee said:


> My wife works in the medical industry. Do you not think people run around the nursing home and hospital when someone announces that the state inspectors walked in the front door and are taking a few minutes to talk to the administrator prior to walking on the floor?.


Where is there a ‘moving of a beehive’ in that story’? 
The beehive story is hypothetical. 

[


BjornBee said:


> Do you think that cooks and restuarant personal aren't feverishly cleaning up crap and moving boxes when the first person greets the inspector at the establishments door and asks they wait while the manager is called upon?


An acquaintance of mine works in food service, he said they walk right in, no delays allowed. But remember, food inspection is separate from the apiary inspection program. 

[


BjornBee said:


> I actually was standing in the lobby of Dutch Gold Honey this year when the inspector "popped" in. The office lady asked very nicely that he sign in and wait till the manager could be free. For the next 20 minutes he was "finishing" up with a phone call. Yeah right.?


Maybe he had to use the restroom.  

However,,, If they would have made an appointment, there would be no waiting. 

I doubt, 20 minutes is gong to be enough time to turn a health hazarded into a model operation. These inspectors are experts and will find violations.
Again, food inspection is separate from the apiary inspection program to which the topic is about.



[


BjornBee said:


> But perhaps a box moved here, some cleanup there, something moved out of site there, something shoved in a closet over there....it happens all the time..?


And a inspector won’t look in a closet? 
Keep in mind they can’t hide everything from trained professionals. IMO, they get away with very little.

[


BjornBee said:


> But your fantasyland view of beekeeping is of a utopian industry that this does not occur in. Your telling me I have seen it in every business I have ever been in, but beekeepers are different? Hogwash!.


Again, the trust I felt in Dennis when he visited prompted me to invite him to inspect every colony when only 10% was required at that visit. Dennis and my regular inspector can pop in any time, but I sure would like to be there to see them in person, instead of a bunch of tilted hives after the fact, 
>>which is what this topic is all about.<< 

If you want to conduct surprise raids on operations, why don’t they do them at night while the beekeepers are in bed? They can duct tape the beekeeper to a chair and have guards watch the children and wife to be sure they don’t throw something in a closet. I will propose that the Apiary inspection program be moved under the jurisdiction of the FBI next meeting.  

I get my car inspected every year. I know the exact date that the inspection will be, but I still occasionally have a violation. In fact, yearly inspections with prior notice prompt me to keep my truck in good shape all year round. Like the vehicle inspection, you will have beekeepers keeping better care of their beehives year-round. 

Yes, you will have an occasional violator, but it is not just cause for unannounced searches, as in the prohibition days. 

Speaking of, going to the club for surprise inspection of a Yuengling or 2 OR 4, 

This message sponsored by:
http://www.yuengling.com/

Joe Waggle ~ Derry, PA 
‘Bees Gone Wild Apiaries' 
FeralBeeProject.com


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

One last thing...I would like to be clear. I am not in favor or somehow think that unannounced inspections are good or needed. I actually like the way inspectors call and notify beekeepers. I was trying to point out the fact that as you give in one area, perhaps something is lost in another.
There is no doubt in my mind that surprise inspections would find much more problems. Announced inspections allow thing to be covered up. And I was trying to point out that in other industries, we would be appalled if food inspectors, medical inspectors, etc., would need to schedule an appointment and announced their inspections. Thats why I brought up puppy mills, restuarants, and other items. Its the catch 22....I am assuming that others see the need for surprise inspections for many things...to make sure slaughter houses are healthy, your grandparents are being taken care of, and puppies are being cared for. These are extreme examples of course. But as a society, we not only see the need for inspections, but understand the abuses that could happen if not for these surprise inspections.
With that said, I want notified the next time I'm up for bee inspection. But I also know that if I fail to return a phone call, make it hard for inspectors to reach me, and somehow skirt the issue...they can pop in.

Its nice to be notified. But I wonder if the food inspector would understand if I demanded they give me 48 hour notice and "schedule" an inspection the next time they want to look at my honey house. I'll see if the nusing home can request such service. I doubt it. But while were at it, if some inspector is going to "inspect" your grandmothers nursing home room or hospital stay....don't you want that right protected as much as for your bees. 

Someone come play......


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

I thought we would see the customary "thugged boot tromping" comments. But the duct tape and guards are new. New extremisms. Nice......


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## naturebee (Dec 25, 2004)

BjornBee said:


> ,,,His policy is that beekeepers be notified. But he also tells his inspectors that once a card has been mailed, once multiple phone calls are made, and once no response is received by the beekeeper (which does happen, with sometimes open opposition)....he has no problem telling an inspector to pop in and do the inspection. He may of "suggested" something different to you on the phone.


Hi Mike,

NO, he did not suggest something different to me on the phone.

Dennis has told me in person that he believes in openness and I have great trust that he is doing just that.

In fact, what you said is exactly what he suggested to me in our discussio. I mentioned to him that I believed that an inspector should make an honest effort to contact the beekeeper beforhand, after that, go ahead with your duties. 
And he thought that was a vary workable solution that would NOT hinder an inspectors duties. 

So I guess I do win the dabate, as inspectors in PA must make an honest attempt at prior notice.  

PS. I apologize for the less than generous use of smiley faces in my last post. It appears Barry placed a limit of 4 per post! 

I'm oputraged. I don’t think we can tolerate a limitation of smiley faces and what to get support to have the BAN lifted. 

I’m going over to tailgater and confront Barry about this. 
Get your torches and pitchforks and follow me. 

Joe Waggle ~ Derry, PA 
‘Bees Gone Wild Apiaries' 
FeralBeeProject.com


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## chief (Apr 19, 2005)

While we are on this subject what role do inspectors really play? What ills have they really saved us from? They burned a lot of hives with AFB but we still have it. Is the burning of so many hives really to thank for the situation we have now or was it the natural progression of a parasite host relationship that played out? If not then why less occurrence of AFB now compared to then? What if we burned all hives with varroa? Would we have less varroa in 20 years? We have more viruses, pathogens, and pests then we have ever had. All the states have different programs with different rules and opinions on how the inspection program should be run. Some states have no program. I personally think having an inspection program that checks for viruses, pathogens, and pests is borderline useless. I do however think it wise to have someone check that pesticides and cleanliness standards are enforced. If you think the inspection programs of certain states are really important please tell me how. If what you say makes sense you might convert a believer but from what I have seen nothing really worthwhile has come of them.


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## FordGuy (Jul 10, 2005)

what role do they play? I agree, we still have all the ills we had before the inspections...just another "i'm from the government, and I'm here to help" load of B.S. If my inspectors help as much as FEMA, then I guess I'll be ok.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

well, in our county, we've had 2 cases of afb all year. everyone with hives in the vicinity has been notified (so as to keep a careful watch). the infection near my hives would have festered and been neglected without treatment if not for the inspection. with 4 honey supers on this hive, there would be plenty to rob from a deadout...likely infecting a number of hives nearby (including mine).

in addition, we get good reports at meetings of what the inspector is seeing around the county in general (mite levels, stores, etc). to me this is all more than worthwhile...and largely dependant on the individual inspector more than the program or the local laws.

deknow


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

As inefficient as the inspection program may be, I cringe when I imagine what it would be like without it. There are many responsible beekeepers out there, but how long would it stay that way in an atmosphere with absolutely no checks or personal accountability? Especially if one is having a serious problem and faces significant financial loss.

How comfortable would you be eating at a restaurant that you knew NEVER had any inspections. Do you trust the management and staff to always do the right thing... even when no one is watching? I don't.


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## naturebee (Dec 25, 2004)

[


chief said:


> While we are on this subject what role do inspectors really play? What ills have they really saved us from?


Here in PA, AFB had been a problem since late 1800’s and PA experienced an epidemic of AFB in the early 1900’s which prompted the adoption of the bee law in 1911 and another in 1921, which provided for right of entry.

The reason for the bee law was at that time epidemics of AFB infected about 50% of the bee colonies in the state. During the time after the bee law was adopted, the cases of AFB dropped to an average of about 1 to 3 percent for the past 40 years or so. 

In the late 1800‘s and early 1900‘s beekeeping practices were not well in the USA. And visiting beekeepers from Europe were known to be astounded by the primitive beekeeping methods being used in the USA, keeping bees in Gums and high incidence of disease, (Source: Eva Crane, World History of Beekeeping and Honey Hunting)

There is a propensity to give the inspection program sole credit for this reduction in AFB cases. BUT we must remember that during the time, laws were passed that prohibited the keeping of bees in Gums, which was how bees were kept in PA other eastern states such as North Carolina where upright log hives of black gum (Nyssa sylvatica) were still being used as late as 1958 (Source: Eva Crane, World History of Beekeeping and Honey Hunting, PG. 305). So the laws to keep bees in movable frames likely had a much greater impact on the reduction of AFB than folks like to admit.




chief said:


> They burned a lot of hives with AFB but we still have it. Is the burning of so many hives really to thank for the situation we have now or was it the natural progression of a parasite host relationship that played out? If not then why less occurrence of AFB now compared to then?


Because of movable frames, and to some extent the inspection program.




chief said:


> What if we burned all hives with varroa? Would we have less varroa in 20 years? We have more viruses, pathogens, and pests then we have ever had.


You can breed your way out of these things, AFB, Virus and Varroa! Talking over a hive during one inspection, PA State Apiarist Dennis vanEngelsdorp explained how to select for AFB resistance, and greatly encourages the practice, which was in a nutshell, get rid of any genetics that show even a trace of AFB infection. 




chief said:


> If you think the inspection programs of certain states are really important please tell me how. If what you say makes sense you might convert a believer but from what I have seen nothing really worthwhile has come of them.



IMO, they can be a valuable asset.

From my experience,,,

When seeing mite levels high, inspectors will say ‘treat them’.

When seeing AFB, in most cases the suggestion again is ‘treat them’

This propagates susceptible stock.

When the advice given is get rid of the susceptible stock. Then you will begin to see great value added to the inspection program by the promotion of resistant stock, and not measures that lead us into eventual trouble with poor genetics.


Joe Waggle ~ Derry, PA 
‘Bees Gone Wild Apiaries' 
FeralBeeProject.com


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## naturebee (Dec 25, 2004)

Mike Gillmore said:


> As inefficient as the inspection program may be, I cringe when I imagine what it would be like without it.


Hello Mike,

Here in PA inspection of a colony is done every 2 years. That’s 2 minutes per colony per 2 years. I don’t think it will be missed if it were eliminated. IMO, beekeepers that rely on an inspection every 2 years to tell them they have AFB could use some education. 

The problem is that here in the USA we do a poor job of teaching beekeepers to inspect colonies and identify disease and pests. In parts of Europe all there is are the bee groups, and they do a great job in facilitating and atmosphere of teaching self reliance in beekeepers. Here in the USA it seems most bee groups are weak in this area and we tend to rely on government to teach which frankly does a poor job in anything they do. 


Joe Waggle ~ Derry, PA 
‘Bees Gone Wild Apiaries' 
FeralBeeProject.com


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

Joe makes an interesting point. At work the next day, I mentioned the inspection and had a couple of people commented that I must feel "relieved" to know how my hives were doing. I found it telling that the general impression was so expectant of some authority to inform you about something. I think that there is a large class of people that rely on nutritional labels, laws, regulations, mandates, statutes, etc., to guide their opinions. One woman even thought that taking a beekeeping class should be mandatory so that I could get "registered". Mind you, this is Massachusetts and sometimes the level of support for public meddling in private affairs is stunning. 

To Joe's point, it seems that many people I've talked with (non-beekeepers) discount the bee classes I've taken or even the incredible exchange of information found here and lean towards feeling warm and cozy with something more "authoritative". Hence, the artificial reliance on government.

From my point of view, all good knowledge is useful and I don't care all that much where it came from. (I do, of course, assign a premium value to the information gleaned from all of you )!


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Back in the early 1900's when most state inspection ptograms came into being, afb was common with most estimates surpassing 50%. As the agriculture importance of pollination and migratory practices of bees were being recognized, and the bee industry itself was demanding help, the inspection programs came into being.

In the early 1900's, mail ordering bees was not common. If you needed a frame of eggs for an emergency queen or lost your colonies, you borrowed from the next farm over as almost every farm had bees. This made desease spread likely. Much of the education to isolated and individual beekeepers were from inspectors.

As the industry developed into what it is today, the inspection program also has developed with the times. State programs provide education, inspection programs, assistance with university programs, a place to call for ordinance problems, and a host of other benefits.

Today, the bees "industry" has little to do with some beekeeepr with two hives in the back yard. The industry, including state inspection programs, are there to facilitate the demand of pollination to the food industry. To protect a vital component of the national security issue of food. 

But along with that, the inspection programs are involved with the future problem and public relations concerming the spread of AHB's. Don't you think the spread of AHB's or lack of mass spread through packages and hives crossing state lines were ay least diminished with state regulations and the inspection program?

Who do you think Dave Hackenburg and other commercial beekeepers turned to when CCD first reared its head? How many state inspection programs have personnel on the front lines trying to help each and every one of us? Much of the research from universities and bee labs across this country are helped tremendously by state inspection programs and the sacrifices of inspectors within the programs. I personally donated the use of 50 hives mtself when I was inspecting for the use of experiments. That same year, several other inspectors I knew did the same. Not out of guilt, not out of pressure. But becuase those others, along with myself saw the need and importance in what was going on behind the scenes. And what goes on is a whole lot more than diminsihing the inspection programs to little more than afb checks and two minute visits.

I am dissappointed that its mentioned "they should do this, or they should do that", when so few actually even recognize the benefits and true impact of the inspection programs, and what they already contribute.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

FordGuy said:


> what role do they play? I agree, we still have all the ills we had before the inspections...just another "i'm from the government, and I'm here to help" load of B.S. If my inspectors help as much as FEMA, then I guess I'll be ok.


From what I understand most State Apiary Inspection programs were established because of the epidemic occurances of AFB and other honeybee diseases. Once you get a program going it's easier to keep it going than it is to start it up again when it is truely needed.


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## chief (Apr 19, 2005)

sqkcrk said:


> From what I understand most State Apiary Inspection programs were established because of the epidemic occurances of AFB and other honeybee diseases. Once you get a program going it's easier to keep it going than it is to start it up again when it is truely needed.



Yeah that’s a great idea!! Let’s keep as many government programs going as we can in case we MIGHT need them in the future. So are you saying it is not truly needed?


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Chief,
Read my last post on page 5, it deals a little deeper than the afb issue.


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## TX Ashurst (May 31, 2005)

I almost hate to join in on this issue, but I have an opinion, too. Just like everybody else.

When I was an inspector, in Imperial Valley, Calif. in the 80's, AFB was the only reason for our existence. There was no hint of any purpose like educating the public or beekeepers, public relations, or any other balogna - just AFB control. We had beekeepers who did pollination there, but our main task was to make sure AFB didn't spread during the winter months when migratory beekeepers would drop hives along the roads in the desert, above the canals, on public land (BLM mostly) and leave them there to maintain their populations on the brush that bloomed during the winter and early spring. From the bees' perspective, it was a marginal living condition, but from the beekeepers' it was a great way to avoid a winter decline.

The problem was that bees would get dropped off out there and the owners would go home for a couple of months of break in the hard work of beekeeping. When AFB broke out, a colony could, and did, spread the disease far and wide before the owners came back and inspected their bees.

Under those conditions, we didn't worry in the least about appointments or property rights. We drove around the back roads looking for hives and when we found them we took a look. Most were fine and they weren't the ones we were there for. We left them as close to the condition as we'd found them as we could manage. The ones we worried about were the ones that were in decline with AFB. It was frustrating to try to contact owners living as far away as the Central states and currently on vacation. We red-tagged the hives and gave them a week to respond. We made phone calls. We mailed postcards. Seldom did any of that do a bit of good. So we had two choices. Let them sit there and continue to contaminate the good hives sharing that public land, or burn them. 

Personally, I enjoyed watching the flames. It is amazing how well they burn. But I took it a step farther than the other inspectors. When we found a yard with AFB, I called as many of the local beekeepers as I had cards for and let them know the locations of the problem hives. My intention was that they would know where to avoid, but I noticed that not all the piles of ashes were started by us. 

As far as I was concerned, it was those phone calls to other beekeepers that justified my salary as an inspector.


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## Oldbee (Sep 25, 2006)

"I almost hate to join this issue, but I have an opinion, too. Just like everybody else". TX Ashurst.
Yup! That's me also, [Oldbee] It's good to hear from present/former "inspectors".

"While we are on this subject, what role do inspectors really play? What ills have they really saved us from?" Chief: Well,...............I don't know if that is the "ROLE" that inspectors need to play; to "save" beekeepers from "ills". If they can provide documentation and statistical information that can be used [later, at some time] by beekeepers/entomolgists/scientists. WHY NOT???

I have only three hives [and don't know nothin bout beekeep'n] but was "honored" that the "state" inspector took the time to come out and just see what was going on with the hives. 
I made a comment earlier on this thread but didn't expect it to become a 6 page "document".


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

I'm surprised by the length of the document as well. 

Oldbee, I felt kind of honored by the inspector coming out as well. There's surely lots of other hives, owned by beeks that sell nucs or honey. I do neither so the visit was different for me. Maybe it's because it was my first time but I'm glad he stopped by. Ideally, I would have known in advance but work is an hour away and I can't take a half day just for an inspection that can happen without me.


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## Carson (Jul 6, 2007)

*Inspector*



chief said:


> I would be more than a little upset with an Inspector Visit coming onto my property and inspecting my hives without my approval. I may not want him messing with my experiments or using his contaminated equipment and tools in my hives. Man I would be angry!! We used to have one inspector for the whole state but for some reason they got rid of the position. Pretty soon “they” will be coming in your house unannounced to make sure you made your bed or something!








The Inspector has a right to go out there any time he want to! if he wanted to go out to look at the hives at 2 am he can theres nothing you can do about it he is just doing his job and im not trying to start a fight or any thing. But I Inspector was just going to say he can go out there when ever he wants to. When you Registerd your hive you just gave the Inspector the right to come out. any ways Im not trying to be a butt or any thing.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

chief said:


> Yeah that’s a great idea!! Let’s keep as many government programs going as we can in case we MIGHT need them in the future. So are you saying it is not truly needed?


Apiary Inspection Programs are hard to justify, as I'm suer you know. I think that they are as important as the beekeeping industry is. On the other hand, what would be the result of not having Apiary Inspection Programs?

I inspected apiaries for the State of New York for 20 years. I haven't heard from or seen an Apiary Inspector for the last 2 years. I haven't felt the need of inspection of my own hives. The State knows where they are if they want to check them out. With me present of course.

I would like some one to check out the hives that were described to me, by the father of the beekeeper, as acting Africanized.

Yesterdays Inspectors were charged w/ getting rid of AFB and other diseases that werew desimatting the industry. That has pretty much been brought under control w/ AFB rates of less than 4% here in NY.

Todays Inspectors need to be educators, in my opinion. Control of diseases and pests of honeybees is still the mandate. But since we've pretty much got them at levels we can live with, the Inspectors focus should be on educating beekeepers on how to get along w/ or "control" todays pests and diseases (disorders?).


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

BjornBee said:


> ordinance problems,
> 
> 
> I personally donated the use of 50 hives mtself when I was inspecting for the use of experiments. That same year, several other inspectors I knew did the same. Not out of guilt, not out of pressure. QUOTE]
> ...


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

TX Ashurst said:


> But I took it a step farther than the other inspectors. When we found a yard with AFB, I called as many of the local beekeepers as I had cards for and let them know the locations of the problem hives. My intention was that they would know where to avoid, but I noticed that not all the piles of ashes were started by us.
> 
> As far as I was concerned, it was those phone calls to other beekeepers that justified my salary as an inspector.


Did you continue this practice after you "noticed that not all the piles were stared by us"? The reaction of the other beekeepers is a good reason why Apiary Inspection data should be and is kept confidential.


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

*Oh No!*

Kansas is doomed! We haven't had a bee inspector for over twenty years. How will we ever be able to keep bees?


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## TX Ashurst (May 31, 2005)

<Did you continue this practice after you "noticed that not all the piles of ashes were stared by us"? >

Of course I did. I wasn't telling them the names of the beeks, nor the exact details. I am not, and was not a doctor or lawyer where confidentiality is guaranteed, and I felt good trying to help beekeepers, especially those in my county. I told them there were known AFB hives in a specific area, and they might want to avoid them. What they chose to do I never asked nor really wanted to know.

I admit I am not surprised that some beeks took the law into their own hands. Those hives were a direct menace to their own operations. It is sad to see hives burn, but even more to see disease spreading and being unable to do anything about it. It would have been better if they had left the burning to me, because them buring = vandalism, while me burning = abatement.

It was a clear case of one beek's freedom to leave bees to overwinter, coming into conflict with another's freedom to keep bees without loosing them due to somebody else's lack of keeping up with their own bees condition.

Personally, I think we are loosing freedoms at an alarming rate as we try to trade freedom for security, and it is putting us in peril. But I also believe that you cannot allow every individual to do anything they want. For example, you can't allow people the freedom to drive the wrong way on the interstates. Getting back to the burning of hives, that became necessary when diseased bees were left out there - it's like driving the wrong way on the interstate. At that time, treating AFB with antibiotics was not legal, but we winked at it. If the beek had taken care to treat their hives; if they had culled diseased hives; if they had kept them at home; there wouldn't have been piles of ashes where they left their hives. The problem wasn't with inspections, it was with lazy or distracted beeks. The other beeks were cheering and that's why we had (and still have some) inspectors. And that's why I hate to see folks dis'ing inspections.


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## chief (Apr 19, 2005)

“I personally donated the use of 50 hives mtself when I was inspecting for the use of experiments. That same year, several other inspectors I knew did the same. Not out of guilt, not out of pressure. But becuase those others, along with myself saw the need and importance in what was going on behind the scenes. And what goes on is a whole lot more than diminsihing the inspection programs to little more than afb checks and two minute visits.”

I’m going out on a limb here but I am guessing the inspection program was not designed for donating hives for experiments. I applaud your sacrifice but I don’t see why this would be considered part of the inspector program. Research should be done in the area of beekeeping but not by the inspectors. 

“well, in our county, we've had 2 cases of afb all year. everyone with hives in the vicinity has been notified (so as to keep a careful watch). the infection near my hives would have festered and been neglected without treatment if not for the inspection. with 4 honey supers on this hive, there would be plenty to rob from a deadout...likely infecting a number of hives nearby (including mine).”

The inspector program may help protect you from managed hives but it does not protect you from feral bees. You might have plenty of feral colonies with AFB in your area and the inspectors can’t protect you from that. If Naturebee is correct about the frequency of inspection of managed hives (once every 2 years) then how safe from others hives are you really?

“I have only three hives [and don't know nothin bout beekeep'n] but was "honored" that the "state" inspector took the time to come out and just see what was going on with the hives.”

If you want someone to teach you about beekeeping try a local club. Why does an inspector make you feel “honored?” Are you “honored” when the tax collector comes and takes your hard earned money only see them squandered on people who don’t or won’t work? Do you realize he just got paid by YOU and others to inspect three hives you could have had inspected for free from another local beek? If they were really looking out for the comercial beekeeping industry and the economic factors involved why would they waste time looking at three hives in a hobbyists backyard?

“Kansas is doomed! We haven't had a bee inspector for over twenty years. How will we ever be able to keep bees?”

Our state has also not had an inspection program for some time. In fact it was mostly stopped by the commercial beekeepers. Why would that be? They didn’t like paying for a service they felt did not serve their best interests. Registration fees for hives now go to research. Money much better spent in my opinion.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Cheif,
"Research should be done in the area of beekeeping but not by the inspectors."

What makes you make a statement in such a way? Is there some golden rule? Some guidelines or limitations? Why should inspectors not be involved? You mention what happened in your state, and that certainly was not the answer.

Data collection and research is tied to many inspector programs. Not just here but in many states. When (Penn State or other) researchers need to collect data for analyzing, they often ask inspectors for assistance. It gives a broad picture from thousands of hives and allows data collection to be on a scale not achievable without inspectors and state programs taking part.

I know when Penn State and Sare grant people need large amounts of hives, it was normal to ask inspectors first if they wanted to participate. That participation always involved donating hives. And it always involved the inspectors collecting the data and charging the time to the inspection program.

I have previously said that the inspection program did not start out for anything more than afb checks, etc. But certainly today, it is much more than that.

The inspection part of the program may be the justification funding, but it certainly involves more than two minute checks for afb. Beekeepers have sought the state apiarist and the help of the inspectors for a host of things. And without the inspection program, the state apiarist has no job. 

Its nice having inspectors work directly for the state agriculture secretary. Its high visability. Having this type support helps when a beekeeper needs help with twonship zoning issues, among other things.

State inspectors give talks and give educational demonstrations at many county clubs. The state apiarist, with the data collected over the year, always makes a year end presentation.

But what is the cost for inspections no matter whether you have a hundred or a thousand hives, the cost for certificates for those leaving the state with bees, assistance at a phone call away anytime you need it, or anything else the inspection program and the state apiarist provide......a whole 5 dollars per year.

I think for everything I get with the state inspection program, I can deal with a quick glance in my hives once every two years or so. I see many benefits from having a state program. I see it at county meetings. I see it in the data they collect. I see it in so many ways.

I know that the state is active with educating the local communities and if and when ahb become a problem, having an inspection program will certainly help in many areas.

Sorry to hear chief, that as state, nobody could work together or find beneficial programs that beekeepers could enjoy.

Here, the state inspectors along with the state apiarist, work closely with Penn State, the state bee association, many county and local clubs, etc.


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

There's no fee in Massachusetts for registering so getting on the list isn't really donating to the state. However, maybe some of you current or ex-inspectors know the answer to this. Does the state keep records, in a database, of the hives they visited and the results that they found? If so, is that useful to them? Can it be accessed by the rest of us? If inspectors provide such data, would volunteer beekeepers performing the duties of the inspectors provide data that is as valuable?


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Ravenseye,
Yes its useful.

The inspection program here just didn't look for afb. It takes data on mites counts, positioning of the hives, shade versus sun desease impacts, collects data on mite levels compared to the different treatments beekeepers used. Last year they took massive collection of randon weight and wing samples for use ahb identification and possible use of a databank later. These are just some of the ways that inspectors and the state program assistas university and other agencies with data collection. 

The inspection reports are not open to the public. In fact as an inspector, you could lose your job if you disclosed personal information, even notifying another beekeeper of a neighbor with afb.
But the state puts that data together in the form of reports, and it assists with many research projects.

The problem with public input on a larger scale is the different methods of collection and sometimes the equipment needed for collection.

The data base of information on the state level is only vauable if the inspectors collect more then simple looks at afb. At least here they do. And that information helps in many ways, behind the scenes, without much fanfare from those so inconvenienced by a hive inspection.

I'm glad you asked the questions.


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## deantn (Jan 3, 2007)

As a current inspector in TN. I submit a detailed report on a form that the state gives us.It goes to the state apiarist and is filed with the agriculture dept. From my understanding the info is available to anyone willing to take the time to access it. Don't know if it available on-line as of yet but will check with him by email and get back to you on that.
The info is currently being used by the universities around the state to see where the apiaries are located and how many are located in areas around the state.
As far as volunteer beekeepers doing inspections and reporting on them I would be a little Leary about that happening unless they were to take classes and be certified to do the job. Here in TN. the state holds such classes once a year all around the state so not that hard to get certified. If someone is willing to take the time to go to classes in the evening at their own expense for a week and then take the time and expense to travel all around different counties going to check other peoples hives without being compensated for this more power to them. 
We receive a small amount of money from the state for doing this service that has been cut back every year so not much incentive to do it except for the love of bee and their environment. And trying to educate the beekeepers on keeping their bees healthy.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

“well, in our county, we've had 2 cases of afb all year. everyone with hives in the vicinity has been notified (so as to keep a careful watch). the infection near my hives would have festered and been neglected without treatment if not for the inspection. with 4 honey supers on this hive, there would be plenty to rob from a deadout...likely infecting a number of hives nearby (including mine).”

The inspector program may help protect you from managed hives but it does not protect you from feral bees. You might have plenty of feral colonies with AFB in your area and the inspectors can’t protect you from that.

>>>the particular hive with afb that i was referring to was medicated in the past...and the symptoms were somewhat "supressed", but visibly present. add to that equation the 3-4 honey supers, lack of bottom board, and "about to fall over", and what you have is not equivileant to a feral colony with afb. a feral colony would (in most cases) not have such a large (and hard to defend) entrance, would generally not be about to fall over (although i'm sure it does happen), and most importantly, would have died out long ago without being treated...would not have so many stores, and would be open for wax moths to take over and consume the stores (greatly limiting the spread). feral colonies with afb DIE, they do not limp along with enough medication to keep them alive, weak, and ripe for robbing. given that there has not been afb reported in this area in the last few years (i don't have full data on this, but it is my impression from the inspector), and given that this hive was MOVED about a mile from my hives in order to keep it TENS OF MILES FROM THE OWNERS UNINFECTED HIVES (which i know for a fact), it seems pretty darn clear that ferals in the area are not infected in any significant numbers....but they might get infected from THIS hive.

If Naturebee is correct about the frequency of inspection of managed hives (once every 2 years) then how safe from others hives are you really?

>>>naturebee is undoubtedly correct about frequency of inspection IN HIS AREA. in our county, all hives are inspected once a year....and with 2 cases of AFB out of about 1200 hives, i can say that in our area, with our inspection program (and my own dilligent inspections of my own hives), that my hives are relatively safe....with the exception of this particular hive that i am darn happy got inspected.

>>>deknow


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Bjorn,
Ordinance problems? What do you mean by ordinance?


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

Thanks Bjorn,

I really don't want to know about specific colonies but I'd be pretty interested in statewide trends or even county statistics. I'd love to compare what my historical experience has been compared to what inspectors are seeing. There's got to be a HUGE benefit to seeing hundreds of hives, across a specific area, on a seasonal basis. I would think that leaving the data collection to the general public might create enough inconsistency to render it suspect. Of course, the same could happen in a structured inspection scenario but at least it's in a potentially more controlled situation. Kind of like taking a census. Not perfect, but representative.

Thanks!


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

sqkcrk,
Ordances. Township, zoning issues, that sort of stuff.

Its much more powerful to approach a township that have complaints and perhaps pending proposals limiting or banning beekeeping, when state officials from the department of agriculture get involved. We can show proactive "best beekeeping practices" with state support, and why having managed colonies are beneficial for so many reasons. Bottom line is that beekeepers here have support for such matters. The beekeeper is not left alone to fight city hall so to speak.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

As I was driving around today, I was thinking of the many ways that inspectors and the inspection program help the beekeeping community. I already mentioned a few. But some I missed.....

One of the more visible public things I did was take calls from county 911 dispatch. Last year, I was called on Memorial day concerning a large swarm that had gathered in the middle of a cemetery just prior to services. Since they had a bucket truck to hang signs and tidy up the park, on site, getting the swarm from the tree branch was not problem. I am sure many good words were spoken by the people attending the services.

The other thing I greatly enjoyed was giving talks to homeschool groups. 

Dennis V. in charge of the Pennsylvania inspection program has always encouraged the inspectors to be highly visible, and allowed them to do this type of work. Its good for beekeepers, good for the inspection program, and good for the state.

Yes, he set goals. And he expected the majority of time to be devoted to inspecting. But whether it was attending the Africnized Honey Bee PA. training seminar at PennState, or representing the state at a bee club social, he knew the benefits of such matters.

I completely enjoyed the side benefits and opportunities that Dennis gave me. I am appreciative of the way the program runs. I can only hope this can continue. Everyone benefits.


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## Benton2569 (Feb 26, 2007)

Your message prompted me to contact our state bee inspector. He is coming out next week.
I was just lucky enough that he was free the day I had planned to skip work.

Thanks!


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