# Comb wires



## newbeemike (Jan 20, 2009)

I understand that one drawback to letting the bees make the comb from scratch is the comb tends to break if you hold it the wrong way. Has anybody tried putting foundation wire on frames without the foundation? Would the bees build around it?


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## justgojumpit (Apr 9, 2004)

In the frames, the comb is quite sturdy, as it is attached on multiple sides. On a top bar, you have to be careful. The wires definitely would not hurt, especially for the frames you will be extracting. Or you could just be gentle with the extractor

justgojumpit


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

When going foundationless, using deep frames, I put in all four cross wires. I've read a number of posts from folks who don't use any wires and seem to get good results. Mine, for whatever reason, need the extra support. And, even with those four wires, I wouldn't even dream of trying to extract them.
Just my personal experience.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

the definition of "top bar hive" is that there are no "frames", just top bars. with a top bar, there is no way to "support the comb", unless it is attached to the sides of the tbh, in which case, you can't remove the top bar without detaching the comb from the sidewalls....removing the supports.

i've seen photos of tb "frames" which use a very thin piece of wood attached to each end of the top bar and bent down in the middle to form a frame of sorts. getting the beespace exactly right with this method seems difficult to me. imho, if you want the support of frames, you should just use langstroth equipment with no foundation. this will assure proper beespace and easy removal of frames.

we use all deep, no foundation, and we don't wire. extracting with a tangential extractor does not seem to be an issue for us with anything but brand new comb. as we don't treat or use queen excluders, most frames have some brood raised in them at some point, and i think this helps with extracting. radial extracting (which uses higher rpm's) may offer different challenges.

deknow


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

deknow said:


> "top bar hive"


Man alive!!!! How did I miss that? I saw the subject line of the post and never even noticed the heading for the forum.........sheeesh. My only excuse is 'old age'. Anything else is just too embarrassing to consider.


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## Bizzybee (Jan 29, 2006)

OK Dan, you've had your senior moment for the day................


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

beemandan said:


> My only excuse is 'old age'. Anything else is just too embarrassing to consider.


....you aren't hanging out with michael phelps, are you?

deknow


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Bizzybee said:


> OK Dan, you've had your senior moment for the day................


It'd be nice to believe that I only have one per day.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

deknow said:


> ....you aren't hanging out with michael phelps, are you?
> deknow


Yeah....but I don't inhale.


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## Aram (May 9, 2006)

no wires but I saw a picture of somebody's top bars with a wooden slat attached perpendicular and center to the top bar. Supposedly the bees built comb around it and it helped strengthen the hanging comb. Wish I could remember who done that. Maybe they'll chime in.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Aram said:


> I saw a picture of somebody's top bars with a wooden slat attached perpendicular and center to the top bar.


That would be Dennis.

http://bwrangler.litarium.com/top-bars/


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## Beethinking (Jun 2, 2008)

From everything I've read, many of those who have tried adding support with wire, wood, etc. have had issues getting the bees to incorporate the wire into the comb and, in turn, most stick with fragile top bars. This year as I'm starting a lot of top bar hives, I do plan to use some top bars with skewers through the top bar to add some strength. To ensure they incorporate these skewers I will be coating them in wax. We'll see what happens...

Matt


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

beemandan said:


> Yeah....but I don't inhale.


to quote our president:


> The point was to inhale. That was the point.


deknow


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## JensLarsen (Mar 14, 2007)

*Dennis stopped using stick*



Barry said:


> That would be Dennis.
> http://bwrangler.litarium.com/top-bars/


I think you will find that Dennis stopped doing that, it is mentioned somewhere on his site. It is simply not necessary and from the pics it is clear that the bees hesitate to fasten to the stick.


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## Aram (May 9, 2006)

Barry said:


> That would be Dennis.
> 
> http://bwrangler.litarium.com/top-bars/


Duh... That's it. Thanks.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>I understand that one drawback to letting the bees make the comb from scratch is the comb tends to break if you hold it the wrong way.

It's not a drawback. It's just a training issue. Don't do that and it won't break.

> Has anybody tried putting foundation wire on frames without the foundation?

The subject seems to be top bar hives. There are no frames. Assuming you mean foundationless frames instead of a top bar hive, yes, many have tried it and it works fine.

> Would the bees build around it?

Yes. They will incorporate the wires into the comb.


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## newbeemike (Jan 20, 2009)

Thankyou Michael for the clear response. Much appreciated. Yes, I meant open frames so I guess the question really belongs in a different forum. Oh well, always learning.


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