# Starting next spring, Russian bees, more hives?



## bettinacharlotta (Nov 7, 2007)

Next year I am planning on starting beekeeping. I have all the equipment that I got from Brushy Mountain bee farm, smoker, hive tool, the main things. I also have one hive that's almost done. All I have left to do is wire the rest of the frames and install the foundation later. I'm wondering if it would be a good idea to buy the parts for another one. My dad said we should get one, but thinks it'll take too long to build. I started the first one mid October. It's not hard to put together, just time consuming. Nailing all the frames took the longest. Anyway, I know there's benefits to starting out with more than one hive, so maybe I should. I am also planning on making a top bar hive or two. I'm going to experiment with making some from hollow trees and from a log.
Also, I am set on starting out with Russian bees, perferably pure. Currently I am thinking of getting them from Jester bee company. Does anyone have experience with them? Their price seems good. I e-mailed them asking about their bees and queens. They said the queens are pure, but may be mated to either Russian or Italian drones. At least any drones the queen lays will be pure, so maybe the next generation will be pure Russian. 
So, how does my plan sound to you more experienced beekeepers? I think starting beekeeping is going to be a good experience. I actually had an idea to get honey bees in 7th grade (I'm in 11th now). My dad said no back then (he's allergic to wasps/hornets, I don't know if he was sure about honey bees then). This year, a few months ago, he talked to a local beekeeper who was selling honey. He told me we could start beekeeping. I thought it was a good idea, and my dad say's I'm in charge of this project (he just buys the stuff I need  ).


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## shawnwri (Jul 31, 2006)

Welcome and best wishes. I would go with two hives so you can compare how they are doing, especially if your dad is buying the equipment. You have plenty of time to build one more before Spring.

I had Russian hybrids from Kelly this Spring and was happy with them. A little slow to build up and seemed to prefer smaller space initially compared to the Italians (They moved up into my hive top feeder and started building comb up there). I know several beeks recommend starting packages in nucs for this reason.


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## berkshire bee (Jan 28, 2007)

*order a 2nd hive*

Yes, WELCOME to the forum. I would say by all means order the parts for a second hive and get started with the building. Winter is the time to get all of this work done. Keep in mind that if you have to order foundation, it is fragile to ship in cold weather. Besides having something to compare with, a second hive is good to have in case their problems. If you have one and lose it, you've lost 100%. If you have 2 and lose one you still have something to work with. Best of Luck to You, and keep us all posted, Berkshire


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## bettinacharlotta (Nov 7, 2007)

Thanks for the good wishes 
I should install the foundation first? Everything I've read so far (even the instructions with the frames) say wire first. Is there a benefit to wiring after? I think if I had wired the first few frames with foundation in them, then it would be quite full of holes, but I could try now that I am better at wiring. So far I've only wired 6 brood frames. I had to fight with the first one to get it to work properly. I broke the wire a few times while trying to tighten it with my pliers. I was pulling too hard and the wire had weakened in a spot it must have bent in. The second frame didn't go as well either. It took a while to get the first two done, though I did get them tight enough eventually. The wire broke when I hammered the nail in on the second and one of the later frames. Finally by the third I got the hang of it. I used two pieces of wood to grip the wire and pull it with instead of the pliers. Then I made a good tool by drilling a small hole in a 4 inch long square stick I had. I stick one end of the wire in the hole, wrap some wire on the stick, and I can tighten the wire much more easily. After that I wrap it around the nail, then use the pliers to tighten the wire a bit more by holding on the the wrapped wire and twisting it around the nail, king of like using a wrench on a nut, or tightening guitar strings. It worked much faster and easier. About how tight should the wire be? I try to make it tight enough to play a clear note without the wire sounding loose (well, if it's not tight it has to be loose, right?).
But yeah, I was planning on saving the foundation for last since it's the most fragile part. I'm working in our basement, which is pretty warm because of our wood burning stove. I wouldn't want the foundation to deform. Currently it's still wrapped up the way it came, safe in a box. Also, one of our cats sits on the hive boxes on top of the frames. I don't know if I want all those sheets of wax covered in cat hairs (what would the bees think? lol).


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

Welcome to the forum, and to beekeeping. I always wire first, then install the foundation. I also imbed the wire into the foundation. If you do not imbed the wire, it is best to install the foundation first.

Starting with two hives gives you the ability to compare one with the other, move a frame from the stronger to the weaker, etc. It is a good idea to have at least two.

It might be best if you kept bees in the standard Landstroth hives for a few years, to get a little experience before tackling a top bar hive without a mentor.

As for the log hive, remember that a hive is illegal if you cannot remove the frames for inspection.

Good luck with your new adventure.


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## bettinacharlotta (Nov 7, 2007)

Yes, I'm going to imbed the wire.
For the log hives, I was going to make top bars for them and removable covers. I got the idea because the power company cut some trees near our power lines. One was hollow and they cut it just bellow the opening in the side. I noticed the wood had composted in the middle, and started to collect it to use for potted plants and other things. Soon I noticed that it was pretty deep, so I thought it would be cool if I could make it into a "wild" bee hive. I'm still working on hollowing out all the dead wood. I probably wouldn't do anything with the hive after there's bees in it. It probably won't make much honey since it won't be very big. I think it would be interesting to see how the bees live in a more natural environment.
How come you can't have a hive without remobable frames? If someone questioned why you had bees living in the wall of your house, you could say they moved there themselves. We live on a 50 acre farm too. I could always hide bees in the woods and no one would know... not that I would actually do that. Anyway, what's the fun of having a hive hidden in a box you can't open? I would want to be able to see the bees.


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

>>>>I could always hide bees in the woods and no one would know.<<<<

The most important person in the world would know you are breaking the law. You could never hide it from that person.



That person is YOU


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## dcross (Jan 20, 2003)

If you're starting with packages, try to avoid having them shipped to you, drive to pick them up.

Most states require bees to be kept in "inspectable" hives due to foulbrood. But not all states have bee inspectors anymore.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

The minimum recommended number of hives for starting off is two. This is because if you have problems you have the resources to deal with them. A common problem is queenlessness, or supposed queenlessness. The simple answer to the question of whether a hive is queenless is more complicated than you think and the only simple way to get that answer is with a frame of brood from another hive.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesmath.htm

>As for the log hive, remember that a hive is illegal if you cannot remove the frames for inspection.

Where would you get the idea you can't remove the combs for inspection in a top bar hive?


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

>>>>Where would you get the idea you can't remove the combs for inspection in a top bar hive?<<<<

My statement was in reference to the log hive, not the TBH. Most log hives are without frames.


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## Fred Bee (May 5, 2007)

*Go for 2 Hives!*

I will put my two cents in as well. I agree with many of the others, go for 2 hives! If you have problems with one, having a second hive can be a valuable resource in that situation. Also, you have twice as much chance at being successful. 

Regarding Queen bees...everyone wants the best Queen bee in the whole wide world. (Ahh yes...the ultimate pursuit of many beekeepers)  That said, she could be Russian...she could be Italian...she could be Carniolan, just to name a few of the choices you have. 

You mentioned your dad talked to a local beekeeper who was selling honey. Now then...right there is a valuable resource for you! See if you can get to know some local beekeepers. Are there any beekeepers who live nearby who might serve as mentors for you? Wonder what bees they have and what works best in your area? I bet some of them would be willing to help you.

Or...I wonder if there is a local beekeeping association nearby? You might check with your County Agriculture Office and inquire. Read, read, read up on beekeeping. There is some great reading material out there. However, nothing takes the place of knowing an experienced person who can help you first hand. 

You are beginning on a great adventure my friend...I wish you the very best.


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## Beorn (Apr 15, 2007)

*Not the best way to start*

Betti,

I'm happy with the idea that you'd like to start beekeeping, but beginning that venture with a cavalier attitude that you can simply hide the log in the woods is not a great start. If you plan to somehow insert frames into said log, more power to ya. If, you don't plan to have removable frames, shame on you. There are many pest/diseases that can afffect a hive and the only to be sure is to look through the frames (see AFB and EFB). This may seem like no big deal to your experiment, but it could affect any beekeeper around you or the feral population at large. You'd be well off to join a beekeeping association and build relationship with local beekeepers. They could mentor you through the start up and through you first year. Good luck.


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## bettinacharlotta (Nov 7, 2007)

I would never actually hide the bees in the woods. I thought it was clear I was joking. Sorry. And of course I'd want to be able to check on the bees. 
As far as I know, that one beekeeper we met is the closest one to us. Actually, my dad met one of them the first time, and the next time we went there, we met the first one's father. I'm pretty sure they were the father's hives though. I have seen some other people with hives in their yards in nearby towns, but we haven't talked to any of them. The guy in our town said to talk to him if we needed any help. 
Yeah, I think I'll order another hive this month. I saw a post somewhere here that Brushy Mountain has free shipping around Christmas. I'll try to order around that time. 
I don't think I'll be able to pick up any packages. Most of the places are pretty far away. Would it be okay to order some number of packages along with an extra queen or two (depending on the number of hives I have done) and split a package or two? I was thinking that the Langstroff hives should get a whole package each, and if I have a few top bar hives, then I could split some packages between them since they're smaller.


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## bleta12 (Feb 28, 2007)

Hi Bettina,

I hope that you will use this winter to read as much as you can on bees so you are ready in the spring. Also recommend to join CT Beekeeper asc. Our next meeting is in Feb.
Good luck Gilman


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## bettinacharlotta (Nov 7, 2007)

Yep. I'm reading as much as I can. I've already read some books from the local library. Unfortunately my high school library doesn't have any beekeeping books, unlike the middle school library. I've been researching a lot online too. I like to learn.


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## Beaches' Bee-Haven Apiary (May 22, 2007)

Hey bettinacharlotta, welcome to beekeeping and the forums!

I'm glad to see you want to take up beekeeping! It's a great hobby (and business - http://beachesbeehaven.com -) It sounds like you're off to a great start. Let me encourage you to definitely join a local association, they are wonderful sources of information. Here are a few in your area: http://www.beesource.com/suppliers/association/ct.htm

The only other thing that I'd like to mention is that I wouldn't worry to much with what sort of bees you get. Just as long as you can guarentee a safe arrival. As mentioned earlier it's best to pick up bees yourself, I drove three hours down to Baxely GA and three hours back for my 5 packages last Spring.

Keep us all posted and feel free to ask more questions.

G'd luck!

-Nathanael


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## Beaches' Bee-Haven Apiary (May 22, 2007)

*Some good reads*

Some of the books that I have found really helpful are; Beekeeping for Dummies (a good basic beekeeping reference), Starting Right With Bees (a very well organized review of beekeeping), Beekeeping Basics(a Penn State Univ. Pulication that is extremely helpful and full of great resources! BTW, you can view and save a PDF copy for free here: http://pubs.cas.psu.edu/FreePubs/pdfs/agrs93.pdf ) Also I've heard the Richard Bonney's books are very good. Just a few suggestions for your winter library.

-Nathanael


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## bettinacharlotta (Nov 7, 2007)

I would pick up the bees if they were nearby. However, I really don't have the chance to drive some hours to another state. My dad wouldn't pick them up either. He said if they ship them, then he'll pay for the shipping. I don't have my drivers license yet, though I'll probably get it soon. How much will multiple days of shipping affect the bees? I wonder, are there any companies you could hire to pick up bees and ship them to your house within a day or two? Most places that sell bees only seem to offer normal USPS shipping.
The reason I'm interested in Russian bees is because of the benefits I've heard about them. I'm sure Italians would be fine too, but the Russians sound interesting. I could bring some new genetics into our area. I've heard the Russians can survive the winter more efficiently than Italians, so they seem like they would work well in our area. 
I'll try to go back to the library sometime soon and get some more books. Last time I took out three, but there were others there too. Maybe I can ask for some books for Christmas. Downloadable books are always good too.


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## Jeffzhear (Dec 2, 2006)

iddee said:


> "...As for the log hive, remember that a hive is illegal if you cannot remove the frames for inspection..."


Is that the case for all states? Just wondering because things do vary from state to state.


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## iddee (Jun 21, 2005)

Yes, All states require removable frames.


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## shawnwri (Jul 31, 2006)

bettinacharlotta said:


> Yeah, I think I'll order another hive this month. I saw a post somewhere here that Brushy Mountain has free shipping around Christmas. I'll try to order around that time.
> 
> 
> > Going on now on in-stock merchandise.
> ...


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## dcross (Jan 20, 2003)

iddee said:


> Yes, All states require removable frames.


Not all states require frames, but I'm fairly certain they all require inspectable hives. But they don't go hunting down feral bees, either.


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## dcross (Jan 20, 2003)

bettinacharlotta said:


> Would it be okay to order some number of packages along with an extra queen or two (depending on the number of hives I have done) and split a package or two? I was thinking that the Langstroff hives should get a whole package each, and if I have a few top bar hives, then I could split some packages between them since they're smaller.


Packages CAN be split, but it would be a lot more likely to succeed if you give them two months or so to get going and then split them IF they're doing really well.

Multiple days of shipping can be absolute murder on bees, package or just queens, especially since the shipping folks tend to HATE handling them. If they're going to come to the Post Office, start bugging them gently a week or so ahead of time so that when they show up your phone rings immediately. 

And of course, feed, feed, feed!


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## bettinacharlotta (Nov 7, 2007)

For the free shipping at Brushy Mountain, do you just order stuff and don't pay the shipping? I didn't see any notices on the site. I'm just wondering if you need to do anything special to get the free shipping so we don't accidentaly pay for it if we don't have to.
Does anyone know if you can ask for overnight shipping from Jester bee company? I was thinking of getting the bees from there, but all it said on the site was normal shipping, which supposedly would take 6 days to get to our house. My dad doesn't think it would take that long, but who knows. I was worried that 6 days was too long and was trying to find another place to get the bees that's closer to us, but all the places I e-mailed didn't fit what I wanted as well as Jester bee. Arnold Honeybee Services seemed like the best, but the price is a bit high, $135 for a 3 lbs package (shipping included). Does that seem reasonable? Arnold and Jester are my current top choices, but each have benefits and bad things.


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## dcross (Jan 20, 2003)

http://www.beeequipment.com/

It says you have to mention the code #INTFRE when ordering, $135 for a delivered three pounder isn't terrible, but get the fastest shipping you can.

If you can get something other than Russians closer/faster/cheaper, go with them, you can always requeen or split later to get the genetics you want.


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## bettinacharlotta (Nov 7, 2007)

I've decided to get the bees from a beekeeper here in CT. I'm getting two 5 frame nucs with Russian/Carniolan bees. My dad doesn't mind picking them up since they're nearby. Now I won't have to worry about the bees sitting in a mail truck for days. 
Oh, for the free shipping, it says no trucks. Does that mean no UPS? What can they ship it with then? Also, where's the code go when ordering online?


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## Fred Bee (May 5, 2007)

*Regarding your Brushy Mtn Question...*

If you are asking about the free shipping offer with Brushy Mountain...Just call them and ask for free shipping...shouldn't be a problem. If you go to Brushy Mtn's web site the instructions are on the front page. Order what you want...then on the last page where it asks for any additional comments or instructions...just ask for free shipping as mentioned in Bee Culture Magazine, etc. Shipping will appear on the invoice on the website, but once they get the order in for processing and recalculate, you will be sent by email a new invoice with the shipping costs removed. I did this and saved about $58 in shipping fees just this week. Best wishes to you and yours for the holidays...Fred


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## Beaches' Bee-Haven Apiary (May 22, 2007)

bettinacharlotta said:


> Oh, for the free shipping, it says no trucks. Does that mean no UPS? What can they ship it with then?


No... That means LARGE shipments! For all those commercial guys out there that order thousands of $$$ worth of stuff. I doubt you'll be ordering that much in the next few years.  They only ship UPS so that's where the free shipping comes in.

-Nathanael


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## bettinacharlotta (Nov 7, 2007)

Ah ok. So like tractor trailor loads of stuff. Good. I didn't think UPS would count, but I had to make sure. That could be a prank though. Sure you can have free shipping as long as it doesn't come in a truck. Just don't say you only ship with trucks.
Ok, so the free shipping request goes on the last page. I'd heard something about a code, so I wasn't sure there was a special box or something. I didn't want to get halfway through ordering something and notice I there wasn't a place for a code or that I missed the spot to request the free shipping.
Thanks


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## beehoppers (Jun 16, 2005)

Welcome. Glad to hear you are getting nucs instead of packages. Nucs are generally more reliable as they are more balanced; eggs, open brood, capped brood, young bees, teenage bees, old bees. Beekeeping is a real live hobby. You'll be tuning in to them and their world.
Good luck and please ask in here for anything you want to know.


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## kc in wv (Feb 1, 2006)

Welcome to the forum and beekeeping. I think you have made the right decision on buying local nucs. At least 2 is a good start.

Brushy Mountain is a good place to buy your equipment. If Eric answers the phone tell him you are just beginning. He likes to talk bee's. He had 90 hive last spring. I don't know how many he has now but he is a good fellow to talk to.

If you have the opportunity to go down there, they have a good set up.

Since shipping is a big part of cost now days I would order as much as I thought I needed for this year (or your dad will spring for ) 

After the shipping special ends and they start adding shipping try and keep my order weight as large as you can up to 50 pounds. 

I like the Dummies book for beginners also. Brushy Mtn has that also unless they are out of stock.


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## Meadow Stone Farm (May 4, 2005)

*Bees In Ct.*

Betti,
You PM'd me already about the TBH (which I will even help you load), but there are quite a few places around your area to get bees. Your best bet is the Eastern CT BA. They bring in bees every Spring. Next would be Allen Holmberg at Full Bloom, he does lots of nucs every year. There's also Irv (forget his last name) off route 12 in Plainfield/Canterbury near Butt's Bridge.

Kris


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## allrawpaul (Jun 7, 2004)

A good thing to think about is foundation size before you wax your frames. Many beeks are now using small cell foundation to help against varoa destructor mite. Keeping bees means you have to take good care of them: you will have to have a comprehensive pest/disease management system. Its good to develop a plan of action now, so you can implement it as soon as you get your bees. Find out the kinds of pests and diseases in your area and then put together a strategy. If there are other beeks or feral colonys anywhere near you, keeping your russians pure for any length of time would take alot of luck. To stay russian you will have to requeen every fall. Plan to feed sugar syrup till august at least. A strong hive takes 2 deep boxes and 4 or 5 honey supers. If you feed till both deeps are drawn and continue to feed if there is a dearth, If you are diligent and keep your bees healthy, and you get lucky, your hive could draw out and fill the 2 deeps and a couple supers This Year. Drawn supers will allow you to get an excellent honey crop next season. Plan on making more boxes! Best of luck! Paul.


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