# Any videos on actual grafting? 5 attempts, 3 takes, 1 mated queen...



## Robbin (May 26, 2013)

this has really gotten bad. I bought a very nice, lighted desk magnifier, so seeing is not a problem. I've got every grafting tool available and I've tried them all. My larva stick to the wall, never to the grafting tool. 
I've NEVER picked up one with the Chinese tool. I've got a couple with the German tool but can't get them OFF. Never been able to pick one up with the JB tool. What little luck I've had has come with the master tool.
I've seen drawings of how to use the Chinese tool, mine certainly don't work like that. I watched crocodul on a video graft a dozen in about 2 minutes with a Chinese tool. but no video of what the actual grafting looks like... Obviously I'm doing something very wrong, I kill 10 for every one I actually get out and I VERY RARELY have one get picked straight up, stay on the tool and make it out. Most slide to the side and stick like glue. i can have 95% of the larva on the tool, and the 5 % touching the wall will not let go. Eventually I flip them up against the wall. I'm assuming you can't roll them up the side without killing them. I've tried with the frames right side up and upside down. Usually the larva are not centered and are touch the wall or the drop of royal jelly is touching the wall. I use the tool to break the cell wall down to the base to give me a better angle. Still, nothing seems to work. 

I really need to SEE how this actually works. Whatever I'm doing is wrong, and I can't stumble into doing it right. Any links to videos would be greatly appreciated.


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## crocodilu911 (Apr 17, 2015)

robin, i am sorry it's not working out.

look, i found some videos on youtube.
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...&mid=4CF8D5E42839357061834CF8D5E4283935706183
this one is in French, but the method is there. you can cut cells or make room for your pick. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RjebgbSQBc

i do not agree with some of the techniques they show online, but each has his own method, it's up to you to find yours. 

i find that the tip of my grafting tool has to be flexible, so i could not work with the steel grafting tools, but i can work a tooth pick into a grafting tool just fine, or a bird feather. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-7yKdrh0fU
this one is under microscope. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HB8_vbz-Gn0 you can see how he goes on the side of the cell, and the tip slides under the larvae. that is exactly how i do it. i slide the tool on the side of the cell, and because the tip is flexible, it goes under the larvae and catches it, so when i retrieve it i have the larva on the end of it. then it's a mater of placing it in your cup, and gently pushing it off. remember i wrote that sometimes, warm sugar water , i mean if you pulverize warm sugar water over the cells, it will create a small drop of water in your cell, and that will help with the placement of the larva in the cell cup.

good luck


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## Robbin (May 26, 2013)

crocodilu911 said:


> robin, i am sorry it's not working out.
> 
> look, i found some videos on youtube.
> http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...&mid=4CF8D5E42839357061834CF8D5E4283935706183
> ...


Thanks crocodilu911,
Those videos where helpfull. I'll try again this weekend.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

One word... Nicot. I have a few of the Chinese tools, the trick is to get a good push off the little flimsy scoop. You might have to bend it to contour to the wood piece or apply a little pressure to it when you're pushing the larva off to get good contact between the two pieces. I'm going to work on a technique which may make it easier, I'll keep everyone posted.


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## Robbin (May 26, 2013)

I bought the Nicot, but was hoping to not have to catch her and try to force her into the container, so I've tried putting it in a tight nuc with little room for her to lay. Didn't help
Been in there a week and she won't even lay on the comb in the frame where the Nicot is, much less actually lay in it. So I'm going to have to try catching her and sticking her in it. 
I hate to do that, if you are having trouble raising queens, you are very reluctant to risk killing one. But I've got to do something. But I will try grafting one more time. The french video crocodilu911 showed me has something new for me to try in it... I can't imagine having to catch an expensive breeder and stick her in a cage every time I want to raise some queens... Of course I'm desperate for queens since I put off buying any waiting for my breeder, than losing her....


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## WRLCPA (May 12, 2014)

I found it really easy my first time this past weekend. I simply came in from behind the larva and scoped it up. If you can't get the "Angle" with the grafting tool, tear down one side of the cell wall, the side behind the ">>>C" shaped larva. The bees will fix it after you put it back in the hive.


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## tommyt (Aug 7, 2010)

How far are you from Chipley????

If it's doable I believe there is some real good beekeeper in and around there 
Look for the Club and give them a call


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## Robbin (May 26, 2013)

WRLCPA said:


> I found it really easy my first time this past weekend. I simply came in from behind the larva and scoped it up. If you can't get the "Angle" with the grafting tool, tear down one side of the cell wall, the side behind the ">>>C" shaped larva. The bees will fix it after you put it back in the hive.


I have not tried a specific direction, so I will try that along with one of the things I saw in the french video. Can't do any worse...
Thanks


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## Robbin (May 26, 2013)

Yep, I've bought queens from two guys in Chipley, but it's about 2 hours away. I've got a friend that is going to graft some for me, if possible, I'm going to be there when he does.


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## weston (Jun 8, 2014)

Here's my two cents, maybe it'll help you...

The trick I have found best for using the Chinese grafting tool is to first work the thin piece of material back and forth enough that it becomes flexible and has a slight bend/hook. 

When I graft, I keep the frame vertical, I enter from the lowest point of the cell and follow the the cell wall (lightly pressing the tool against it). When the tip of the Chinese grafting tool hits the bottom of the cell, it bottoms out and begins to bend, slipping under the larva and royal jelly. Then its just a matter of pulling it straight out. Its important to hold your tool vertically, such that, when the tip of the grafting tool meets contact with the bottom, it is directly in the corner between the cell wall and the cell bottom. This usually requires holding the tool at slight angle (depending on your preset bend) in order to keep it parallel with the side wall.

There was an image on the internet that demonstrated this, but I can no longer recall where I saw it.

You quickly get the feel for it this way and I find that I don't really need to be able to see down into the cell during grafting (aside from initially spotting the larva), which makes things a lot easier and faster. 

Its also important that the tool be moist, licking it before each graft is usually the easiest.

Anyways, hope this helps.


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## awootton (Jan 21, 2014)

there's a good pic on Randy Oliver's site (along with lots of good info of course)

http://scientificbeekeeping.com/queens-for-pennies/


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

All I do is to cut a bamboo toothpick at one end in a slanted angle and use it to scoop the
larva out of the cell. No need to cut the cells down. How simple is that.


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## maynard (Jul 7, 2014)

I recently learned that if you use comb that has never had brood in it, so there are no old cocoons, on plastic foundation, you can just scrape the comb off leaving the young larvae exposed. The ridges on the foundation are plenty deep enough to keep the larvae from getting scraped off too. This makes it much easier to see what's going on.


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## Stephenpbird (May 22, 2011)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRN9LeVBq6Y


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## crocodilu911 (Apr 17, 2015)

Stephenpbird said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRN9LeVBq6Y


I like the detail of the video, but I think most of those larva are being harmed. I do not know what the success rate is , since the video does not show. 
Robin, if your friend can show you how to do it, it would be great. and if you can film and post online, for future reference, that would be even grater.
 
Radu


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## Robbin (May 26, 2013)

crocodilu911 said:


> I like the detail of the video, but I think most of those larva are being harmed. I do not know what the success rate is , since the video does not show.
> Robin, if your friend can show you how to do it, it would be great. and if you can film and post online, for future reference, that would be even grater.
> 
> Radu


Wow, that is an awesome video, however, it shows how it is suppose to work. He slides the tool under the larva and picks it straight up. Mine immediately slide off the tool, stick to the side and I'm done. No way does it ever come off the wall. But that is a super video, don't know how they ever shot it. I'm going to try two things, one, in the french video, he used a knife and scraped all the wax off down to the top of the plastic frame cup. The other was another suggestion that I try to graft approaching the larva from the back of the C. I don't have anything to video my friend with, but I'm sure it wouldn't be any better than the one you just found. That one is awesome. Thanks for posting that one and the french one. 
Sooner or later I'm going to figure out what I'm doing wrong.


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## Stephenpbird (May 22, 2011)

crocodilu911 said:


> I like the detail of the video, but I think most of those larva are being harmed. I do not know what the success rate is , since the video does not show.
> Radu


His success rate is very very good. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IM2d11aeSA0

The Grafter is a university qualified Master Beekeeper and is now a commercial beekeeper.


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## crocodilu911 (Apr 17, 2015)

Stephenpbird said:


> His success rate is very very good.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IM2d11aeSA0
> 
> The Grafter is a university qualified Master Beekeeper and is now a commercial beekeeper.


it looks good.


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

As others have said, with the Chinese tool, straight down the cell wall and the tongue of the tool will slip under the larva. Press the tongue lightly to the bottom of the cell cup and press the plunger to push the larva off.

You want an, older darker comb. The cells will have more rounded bottoms making it easier.


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## gnor (Jun 3, 2015)

Check out Jason Chrisman on YouTube. He also demonstrates the cell punch method for those of us that are digitally challenged.


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## crocodilu911 (Apr 17, 2015)

robbin, did you had a chance to go out there this weekend and graft? how did it worked?


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## jhs494 (May 6, 2009)

We use the Jenter system which is very similar to nicot.
I use a plastic queen clip to catch the queen in and then place it over the hole in my Jenter system and let her walk right in. I usually place my Jenter system in the very top box so the clip holds the queen in, if I have found her in a bottom brood box. We use these clips frequently catching swarms and haven't had any trouble or injured a queen yet. 

JMTC
Joe


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## SDiver40 (Apr 14, 2013)

I normally graft using the chinese grafting tool and have pretty good luck with it. 
It's been so hot lately I havent had good luck getting many drawn out. SO I tried the cell punch method and got 5 out of 7 drawn out. I only needed 3 so I was happy with that. I use a .308 cal casing cut and soldered to an old screw driver for a handle. Set it in hot water to heat up and just push it down over the cell I want. Twist the bottom end to a point and use melted wax to attach to the bar. Works pretty well and dont have to touch the larva at all.


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

gnor said:


> Check out Jason Chrisman on YouTube. He also demonstrates the cell punch method for those of us that are digitally challenged.


Here is a very well done video of using the cell punch method, with link to purchasing the kit which is very inexpensive...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vu8EqyXzkYw

Here is where to purchase the kit...
http://honeycomb-hill-beekeeping.blogspot.com/p/bee-store-shopping-cart-add-on.html
and here...
http://honeycomb-hill-beekeeping.blogspot.com/2014/02/queen-rearing-cell-punch-kit.html


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

jhs494 said:


> ... and haven't had any trouble injuring a queen yet.


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

Hi, Robbin. I'm tap dancing with off-topic here, because this is not about a video, but the best still picture I've seen in a book about larvae the right size for grafting is in Harry H. Laidlaw and Robert Page's book, Queen Rearing and Bee Breeding. Just mentioning it, if that might help.

I understand that that title is difficult to obtain right now, but do ask around your club, check libraries, etc. Good luck, and I do hope it helps.


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