# Cant reach swarm, now what?



## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

you can just trust your traps.
if you have a long pole "30 feet" you can lay a sheet under the bees, set the trap on the sheet, bang the limb bout as hard as you can, most of the bees should drop and with luck crawl in.

may not be your swarm, I have caught a swarm in the yard, not from my hives.

2 frame trap, mine are 10, well what ever works.

GG


----------



## Hoot Owl Lane Bees (Feb 24, 2012)

I keep 2 long painters poles in the truck for swarms like that. I have stood on a ladder in the back of the truck and used the poles also.


----------



## cwoodar0 (Jun 13, 2021)

It's crazy because I've split both big hives and taken 5 or 6 frames from one. Maybe GG is on to something with the suggestion it may have ran in from somewhere else. I was in all hives on Saturday and no queen cells and no shortage of space. 🧐🤔 there are several operations within a mile


----------



## G3farms (Jun 13, 2009)

Shot gun..........just shoot the branch off


----------



## gator75 (Apr 21, 2021)

That looks bigger than 2# of bees. But I've only seen a couple swarms.


----------



## Tim KS (May 9, 2014)

gator75 said:


> That looks bigger than 2# of bees. But I've only seen a couple swarms.


I've seen quite a few swarms and it looks bigger than 2# to me also. It looks like it would be a crowd for a nuc box.


----------



## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

Yes, I've done them, a ten foot pole with a bucket mounted so that it swivels on one end, standing near the top of a ten foot ladder plus my height, 25ft is about the limit for me. The bucket mounted so that it swivels so that it's always level no matter the angle of the pole to level horizon. Actually, in searching my memory and thinking about it, 25ft might be a couple feet out of reach with my way. 20 feet yes, 25 might be a stretch.


----------



## fieldsofnaturalhoney (Feb 29, 2012)

Tanging them down? Your traps are most likely to small to entice them. Rope over the branch, sheet and box on the ground, quick hard pulls? Of course, as suggested by G3 farms, there is always the gun


----------



## cwoodar0 (Jun 13, 2021)

Of course, the one time I get a swarm its a hard one. Tonight, I will be throwing a rope over the branch and yanking it. Attempting to catch them on a sheet. Theres a frost coming tonight, so hopefully I can gather them and get them to a warmer home than a branch. Ill report back in a while.


----------



## G3farms (Jun 13, 2009)

I also use a fiberglass surveyors rod which will extend up to 25 foot. Duct tape a five gallon bucket to the end of it. Raise it straight up, do the "shake shake shake" under the swarm, and then lower straight back down. Tilting it to one side is just too much to handle. 

I have also used a frame of brood comb, just hold it there long enough for the bees to crawl onto the frame and then lower it down. Will take several frames to get them an some time, hour or two.


----------



## cwoodar0 (Jun 13, 2021)

My attempt didn't go well. I climbed off to cut branch and it snapped, sending bees everywhere. The bees re clustered on another branch. So I go back up with a nuc box and get maybe 1/3. I put nuc box below cluster and they are all fanning on the tops of the frames but I didnt see the queen. Now I have two separate clusters 20' apart and the other 1/3 in a nuc box on the ground below. Will be dark and below 50 in the next hour. Oh well, I tried


----------



## gator75 (Apr 21, 2021)

Tried your best. Sounded like a tough situation. Maybe they'll find the nuc.


----------



## G3farms (Jun 13, 2009)

Yep can't get them all, if you got the queen in there they might just move in.


I also use a pole saw that has the limb cutter on it, I think it will reach out 10 to 12 feet. To extend the reach I slid a piece of 2" CPVC over the outer tube and duct tape it to it. this will get me to maybe 20 foot reach to cut a limb. Some times I use it to trim limbs out of the way to be able to get the bucket up to them.


----------



## cwoodar0 (Jun 13, 2021)

Maybe I'll go back out tomorrow morning and try again. I have a survey rod that is 21' and a bucket i can duct tape to it.


----------



## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

Is a nuc box large enough to hold the swarm? I always used a single deep myself, as to many times they are large enough to not like the tight fit in a nuc box. Anyway, I hope as you return you find that all the bees are in your nuc box! Also, it is possible you have a swarm with 2 queens in it. I say that since it split up on you, during the confusion. Best of luck to you!


----------



## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

cwoodar0 said:


> Maybe I'll go back out tomorrow morning and try again. I have a survey rod that is 21' and a bucket i can duct tape to it.


practice, practice, practice

GG


----------



## cwoodar0 (Jun 13, 2021)

I've got all the bees into a nuc box, and never saw a queen. Its only low 50s today, But I looked very carefully through each frame and never saw her. Once I got them into the box, the bees were fanning like crazy so I am assuming the queen made it in somewhere. There is barely two frames full of bees, so I'll look next weekend for eggs in the drawn comb I gave them. If I don't see any, I'll drop in a frame of eggs and open brood to see what happens. Some of the good ideas posted above were very helpful, so thank y'all for that!


----------



## cwoodar0 (Jun 13, 2021)

Ok I just inspected each hive of mine and saw every queen. We could say maybe GG was right, with his suggestion that the swarm came from elsewhere. We gave this rehab swarm a frame of open brood and let it be.


----------



## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

When a swarm hangs in a tree, scouts go out to find a better spot for them to move to. Workers also go out to find nectar for the swarm. If scouts come back and the swarm moves on to their permanent location of choice, bees in the field are left behind and look like a small swarm. They will cluster where the swarm was, queenless. These queenless swarms are harder to grab and box, and sometimes they'll have comb started where they were hanging, which I find will be drone sized comb cells for honey storage. Anyway, perhaps this is the type of queenless swarm that you have captured. Giving it a frame of brood is good to do regardless. If there's eggs or youngest larva on it, then they'll make a queen if they need one.


----------



## JConnolly (Feb 21, 2015)

Here is my spring time trunk kit which can get swarms 25 feet high from the ground. 


five gallon bucket
flag pole bracket, adjustable angle. This kind.
(4) ¼ -20 x 1-1/4" bolts, (4) ¼ -20 nuts, (4) fender washers, (4) regular washers.
A paint roller with threads for an extension.
A telescoping painters pole.
A Pro Nuc with a frame of comb and foundation.
A drop cloth.

The flag pole bracket is attached to the bottom of the bucket with bolts, use fender washers on the inside. The paint roller handle is removed and epoxied inside the flag pole bracket so that a painters pole can be screwed into the flag pole bracket. I use a telescoping pole that extends to 22 feet. 

Credit for this idea goes to


----------



## Litsinger (Jun 14, 2018)

JConnolly said:


> ... flag pole bracket...


The knuckle-mount is a good idea- I hadn't considered this. I've run into several scenarios where being able to adjust the angle of attack would have been a great big help.

Thank you for sharing.


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Some old boxes, some old black brood comb, some lemongrass oil, some QMP (either the alcohol from a bottle of alcohol filled with retired queens, or PsuedoQueen from one of the bee supply places) and set it up at the base of the tree. This works most of the time to lure them into the box. Put four drops of the lemongrass oil in the box, and twice that much around the entrance on the outside.


----------



## drummerboy (Dec 11, 2015)

G3farms said:


> I also use a fiberglass surveyors rod which will extend up to 25 foot. Duct tape a five gallon bucket to the end of it. Raise it straight up, do the "shake shake shake" under the swarm, and then lower straight back down. Tilting it to one side is just too much to handle.
> 
> I have also used a frame of brood comb, just hold it there long enough for the bees to crawl onto the frame and then lower it down. Will take several frames to get them an some time, hour or two.


Great advise. We use this method as well. A Bucket with a frame of brood comb, screwed to a long pole, raised to the swarm, shake vigorously. All that's left is the celebration when it goes well....or....watching it leave for the trees. In either case, swarms are amazing to watch. We should not expect to catch (or even notice) them all.


----------



## G3farms (Jun 13, 2009)

drummerboy said:


> We should not expect to catch (or even notice) them all.



As I drive down the road to where ever I am going, I am constantly looking for swarms and always think, "how many did I drive past today and not see".


----------



## Litsinger (Jun 14, 2018)

G3farms said:


> ... "how many did I drive past today and not see".


Truth...


----------



## joebeewhisperer (May 13, 2020)

fieldsofnaturalhoney said:


> Tanging them down? ...


I’ve settled them on low stuff while they are all still in the air, but once that community smell is settled on a branch (regardless of height) I’ve never moved them down with vibration.

I have an aluminum ball bat and a small plow point i use to strike it. If held with 2 fingers up around the grip, the bat produces a prolonged vibration that really soothes me. I’m not sure how they feel, but they usually settle close to the ground.

Not saying bells/tanging wouldn’t work, just never heard of it after they settle.

My mother-in-law (age 89) said they kept a bell handy in spring while her dad was working. If they saw his bees begin to swarm, they rang the bell to settle them low. When he got home he would box them.


----------



## Cobbler (Jan 6, 2021)

I have had good luck when the cluster is a little higher than my reach with a ladder, pole, and bucket - throwing a weight over the branch with a string attached. Then I yank on the string to bump the branch. At that height, the bees will take flight before they hit the ground, but they might not take flight before hitting the next limb down. By continuing to shake the original limb, the bees can be convinced to cluster up again lower. Then I can get them with the pole.

I have only ever given up on one swarm, which I measured with my drone at 65 feet.

I also like the idea of hoisting a drawn frame up to the cluster, then letting it back down when covered.


----------



## Litsinger (Jun 14, 2018)

Cobbler said:


> ... throwing a weight over the branch with a string attached.


Good information, Cobbler. What sort of weighted string are you using? Something you bought from an arborist's supply house or something you've made up for the purpose? I've tried a couple homemade set-ups but I've never been able to come up with something that works really well- I'd be interested to see your set-up if you don't mind sharing.


----------



## Cobbler (Jan 6, 2021)

Litsinger said:


> Good information, Cobbler. What sort of weighted string are you using? Something you bought from an arborist's supply house or something you've made up for the purpose? I've tried a couple homemade set-ups but I've never been able to come up with something that works really well- I'd be interested to see your set-up if you don't mind sharing.


I have used the kind of twine used for marking lines when you’re building a deck or other construction project - tied to a baseball. I can get that over a branch up 40 feet or so.

I have heard of tying the string on an arrow and shooting it over. I wish I had a cheap bow and arrow.

I have also been trying to think how I could use my drone to deliver the string. The problem is coming back down without catching the string in the rotors.

















This is what one of these looked like last year.


----------



## cwoodar0 (Jun 13, 2021)

Well, I checked the rehab swarm.today and we have laying workers. Last week when I boxed the swarm, I gave frames of open brood and one frame with two swarm cells. I can see all that wet brood is now capped and the empty cells are classic signs of laying worker. Maybe today ill cut the two swarm cells out and put each one in a mating nuc eith some wet frames.
Ugh this swarm is doomed. I may give it a frame with open brood today to see if I can pull them through but its a weak colony anyways.


----------



## Litsinger (Jun 14, 2018)

Cobbler said:


> I have used the kind of twine used for marking lines when you’re building a deck or other construction project - tied to a baseball. I can get that over a branch up 40 feet or so.


You've got a good arm! I've tried this method but the weight of the mason string versus the baseball ends up getting stuck up in the tree for me as often as not- maybe dependant on tree species. I've considered buying something like this:





__





Throw Line Kits |American Arborist Supplies, tree care, climbing equipment







www.arborist.com


----------



## Litsinger (Jun 14, 2018)

Or how about this?


----------



## Cobbler (Jan 6, 2021)

My experience has been that swarms are no good - except in desperate circumstances - for raising a new queen. Those bees are just too old to keep a hive thriving until an egg can be raised to a queen and then another three weeks to emerging brood. By that time there’s hardly a swarm bee left alive. If you have a Swarm with no queen, I would add those bees to a colony where they can be useful.


----------



## drummerboy (Dec 11, 2015)

In over 2 decades keeping bees and catching lots of swarms I've never caught/hived one that didn't have a queen...usually a queen that I put there in the first place. 

imho; swarms are great if they're not yours, especially if you can catch them. We've had many survive and thrive over the years. A rough estimate is half of them make it through a first Winter, kind like many colonies that start as NUCs or Packages these days.


----------



## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Cobbler said:


> I have used the kind of twine used for marking lines when you’re building a deck or other construction project - tied to a baseball. I can get that over a branch up 40 feet or so.


One question - how do you get your "weight-and-twine" thingy back? 

I have this very heavy nut I picked up on the road side.
A perfect weight for throwing up the tree.
But how do I get it back after it tangles up there?
I suppose I could try cutting the twine assuming the weight will drop down on its own.

Years ago I balanced on the very end of the ladder getting a swarm. I got them by lopping the branch off and dropping it onto the pre-arranged tarp.

Someone held the ladder, but, frankly, I did not have high hopes of them actually preventing a potential fall (thankfully, that did not happen).


----------



## Cobbler (Jan 6, 2021)

GregB said:


> One question - how do you get your "weight-and-twine" thingy back?
> 
> I have this very heavy nut I picked up on the road side.


Hey, I recently pick up a big nut off the road. I knew it would have some use. Thanks for the idea. 

I have not had a serious tangle with this method. I throw one end up and over the branch. The weight pulls the string back to the ground. I yank on both ends of the string, so no knots or anything are needed. When I’m done, I pull the non-weighted end up, over, and down.

Actually, I did once get a rope tangled in a branch (different setup). I was able to get that one down by climbing the tree, then loosening the tangle with my extension pole.


----------



## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Cobbler said:


> I yank on *both ends of the string, so no knots or anything are needed.* When I’m done, I pull the non-weighted end up, over, and down.


Got it!
I was thinking wrong.
Makes sense now.


----------



## Cobbler (Jan 6, 2021)

I have created a weighted line dropper to be used with my drone. Now I can accurately place a line over a branch as high as 1500 feet as long as there is a little space to fly.

I had several ideas about how to make this before coming up with this extremely simple design. I used a piece of plastic sheet that had been the protective wrapping for decking material. I cut and folded it to have two tabs similar to bread clips and to fit into the tiny landing gear that is already part of my drone.










it is so small and light that I figure I can leave it installed all the time. If that’s a problem, I can easily remove it in a few seconds.

It works like a charm.










The rope, along with the weight releases with a gentle Pull on the end of the rope.

now I am feeling sad that I didn’t have this last year when I gave up on a nice, big swarm 65 feet up in a tree.


----------

