# A Different kind of SHB trap



## jrbbees (Apr 4, 2010)

I Like the design.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Anything you can do to kill the buggers, I like! Keep us informed............


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## Genemiller (Jul 21, 2013)

It looks like there would be room at the entrance to bend the bottom wire to a v. It would prevent all but the lucky ones from getting out. Besides i think they will try to go up to the smell. 

Gene


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## WVMJ (Apr 2, 2012)

Its hard to see in your pic with the wood background but were there the same number of beetles in each square or more in the back? If they are following the edges more in the back a single divider running from front to back with holes in each back corner might funnel more towards where they want to do anyway. Would a simple hinge on the bottom let you empty them out easier or complicate it much more and probably add cracks the beetles could escape from, scratch the hinge, maybe leaving their corpses in there will actually attract more adult beetles into the trap? Now you have to think of a snazzy name for it. WVMJ


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

The beetles in the picture are mostly dead. Once they die they just roll around in there so it would be pretty easy to shake them out of even a rather small hole.

So I just kind of shook them around until they were visible for the picture.


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## challenger (May 27, 2009)

I discovered this tactic as well a few weeks ago. I was going to try to make some similar but without the cross of wood but never got around to it.
My idea is to have a normal SBB with the same mesh as we both have but secure a screen "sock" of finer mesh that the SHB would collect in. One could reach under the hive and open the sock & clear out whatever is in it.
I know for sure the sock would collect enough dead SHB & plain old hive debris, all of which is super attractive to SHB, that the sock itself would become an attractant and a huge mass of SHB larvae. I've seen this happen to piles of hive trash left in a box-it became on oozing mound of SHB maggots.
Maybe an easier to empty trash collecting container such as a ball jar. This would be heavy enough to keep the cone shape in the sock. I know the SHB could still climb up the fine screen but I think more would walk into the self baiting bottom container.
Anyway it would be low budget and easy to make & use. Plus a glass collection container would allow one to view these bastards struggle before dying. Take it to the freezer and the next day there would be thousands of potential hive crashing SHB & SHB larvae killed. Dump the thawing lump of dead SHB matter on the ground near a fire ant hill and the circle of life, African insect style, would be fun to watch.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

So far I have not seen enough debris inside one of these for any of that to happen, basically anything fine enough to go in through the top falls out through the bottom - which is fine with me. 

A friend of mine (very experienced hobby bee keeper) salts (pool, sidewalk, or livestock salt - whatever is cheap and available) the ground under and around his hive stands - enough to suppress weed growth, and says he rarely sees hive beetles at all. Cause and effect? Who knows, but cheap and easy to try.


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## ArtSmart (Sep 29, 2012)

I wonder is putting on top of the hive (under the lid) rather than on the bottom would work better. I noticed that in my hives beetles are usually herded in the corners of the top lid. Just a thought.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

I have tried them in that position and it catches a few, but the bees propolize a lot of the screen and the entrance holes on the inside of it, so no beetles can enter the trap from inside the hive. It catches more as a bottom board.


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## challenger (May 27, 2009)

I think this particular trap style is best placed on the bottom. SHB are clumsy and fall easily. In the confines of the hive they don't have space to open their wings and just fly back up.
I have found a lot at the top but as many or more cornered in the bottom board. The SHB flying in as well as those that get forced, or fall to the bottom would likely fall through the first screen. They don't have legs that allow them to climb & cling like many other insects. I doubt they can easily climb around on 1/8" screen?


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Except this screen is too small for them to fall through. It doesn't work like that.


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## challenger (May 27, 2009)

Sure it does. That's how the beetles got in between the two types of screen. That is IF you are talking about the screen in the OP???
I've used #8 mesh before and nearly all SHB I've dumped on it fall through.


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## dphillipm (Mar 27, 2013)

I have been thinking outside the box on shb. I have tried to close every opening with screen door mash,and just leaving a small opening for the bees to enter. I'm still finding beetles in the hive. I'm trying to come up with a ideal that would keep the shb from just flying into the hive passed the guards. I would like to make it where the guards have a chance to stop the beetles before they enter the brood chamber. Does anyonepp have any ideals on this?


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## challenger (May 27, 2009)

dphillipm said:


> I have been thinking outside the box on shb. I have tried to close every opening with screen door mash,and just leaving a small opening for the bees to enter. I'm still finding beetles in the hive. I'm trying to come up with a ideal that would keep the shb from just flying into the hive passed the guards. I would like to make it where the guards have a chance to stop the beetles before they enter the brood chamber. Does anyonepp have any ideals on this?


That would be a tough one. I think SHB can sneak through tiny cracks. I'm also not sure that guard bees, or house bee for that matter, can do anything to SHB other than chase them. A SHB entering a hive might get badgered a bit but likely can walk right in after a little harassment.
I've read that bees try to chew the SHB legs but I've never seen a bee do anything more than chase SHB although I've seen plenty of instances where the bees were able to confine SHB with pro polis.
I'm certain that the bees keep the SHB in check by keeping them moving so they cannot lay large numbers of eggs. I believe that some eggs make their way into the hives but, if bee numbers are high and egg numbers are low, the bees remove them or the hatched larvae. When bee numbers get low the SHB lay gobs of eggs and the result is a wretched mess.
I try to keep my hives populated enough where the bees will cover all frames that have resources. If I have a double deep for example that doesn't have bees to cover all 20 frames I'll put empty drawn comb or plain foundation at the ends. This still gives the SHB a place to hide but if I find too many I'll put traps in.
I have found almost zero beetles in hives that are jammed.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Strong healthy populations are absolutely the first line of defense against beetles, unfortunately that often interferes with being able to give a hive room to grow, make increase, prevent swarming, or even store honey.


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## challenger (May 27, 2009)

Yup. That's the point I made earlier about these pests making beekeeping very frustrating and often unenjoyable.
Hives have to be on the verge of swarming or be susceptible to SHB slime.
So you have a highly populated hive you were lucky enough to build up and guess what? You also have a huge potential for deadly high varroa population to go with it.
Needless to say some bees take care of varroa themselves but really these are either from queens bred for this, which don't last forever, or timely, effective and often expensive (labor &/or $) treatment.
I know several will claim they have bees with no varroa problems and do not treat. IMO these are new beeks that have hives young enough where varroa has not yet "found" them. Once you have 4 or more (maybe less) hives for 2 years + I'll bet $ varroa damage is soon in the offing.
Developing a SHB entry defense system would take a huge burden off a whole lot of beeks.
I look forward to seeing one. The sooner the better.


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## Genemiller (Jul 21, 2013)

I haven't set out to watch how they come in but forcing them to use just the bee entrance by making all joints tight makes sense to me. maybe they aren't all going to find it. Also if they all walk straight in then using the plastic corrugated signs board at the entrance would trap a lot. The bees would just go over it and the beetle into it. Just a thought from a newbie. 

Gene


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## challenger (May 27, 2009)

I think you & I are on the same track.
I think a mechanical SHB excluder at the entrance is a cheap thing to prototype & worth the effort.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

challenger said:


> Yup. That's the point I made earlier about these pests making beekeeping very frustrating and often unenjoyable.
> Hives have to be on the verge of swarming or be susceptible to SHB slime.
> So you have a highly populated hive you were lucky enough to build up and guess what? You also have a huge potential for deadly high varroa population to go with it.
> Needless to say some bees take care of varroa themselves but really these are either from queens bred for this, which don't last forever, or timely, effective and often expensive (labor &/or $) treatment.
> ...


Actually I've seen something like that in a video somewhere before. The beetles go down through a beetle sized hole into a trap, and the larger bees go over it to enter the hive.

But I agree - to me SHB are worse than anything else that I have encountered including varroa, because they ruin valuable comb, pollen, brood and even honey if you aren't careful - resources that are harder to replace than bees to a certain extent. When I see hives that I think have crossed into a real danger zone for beetles I shake it out so that the bees have to beg into other hives and freeze or dispose of the frames as I judge appropriate.


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## challenger (May 27, 2009)

That's one way. I try to have drawn comb for the bees from a slimed hive, I've only had one, and put the bees & queen in a fresh hive. Then I freeze the comb for 3 days. AfteriI remove it I let it thaw out and then I rinse off the watery slime and put the comb on a strong hive which cleaned it up & was able to use the resources that were still OK.
This was told to me by the bee inspector. The hive cleaned out the dead SHB larvae and the disgusting comb was like new again.
BTW the fermented pollenfrom a slimed comb is the ultultimate bait if you ever use the beetle jail traps that have a center section for bait.


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## TooFarGone (Aug 19, 2012)

David,

Very interesting idea!

I just found this product today that may well augment your hive beetle harvest! Pretty cute idea to keep the little varmints from climbing back up into the hive from the bottom board! I have been thinking a lot about how to keep the buggers out of the hive or at least reduce the numbers that get inside. Purely mechanical methods to funnel them "elsewhere" without leaving large amounts of oil or other noxious or difficult to handle substances inside the hive. You might eventually need a method to empty the dead carcases from your trap.

http://www.beetlebaffle.com/the-beetle-baffle-1/product-info/

Here is a link to the Beetle Jail entrance trap Youtube video that may be the one you saw. I found it very interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egLroAZ_Qn0

Tim H


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

TooFarGone - I suspect that you are correct in that the beetle baffles and my device might make a combination which is more effective than either one by itself.

The beetle jail is indeed the entrance trap that I was refering to earlier. I should get one just to try although all of the oil traps that I have used in the past had the same drawback - they get sooo nasty. Especially in hot weather when the beetles are at their peak.

None-the-less these have me thinking about ways that I can make my idea work better. IF the baffles are as effective as they claim (Of which I am naturally skeptical, but still it's worth trying) then together we may be on to an effective, low maintenance control.


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## Genemiller (Jul 21, 2013)

The beetle baffle looks like it might confuse them but eventually they will get around it unless they are really clumsy. The beetle jail is similar but traps and kills them. You could add a small plastic sign with poison to kill them with the beetle baffle. If your bottom board is a screen and you place a catch container under the screen that might work. 

Gene


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## Slow Modem (Oct 6, 2011)

challenger said:


> Developing a SHB entry defense system would take a huge burden off a whole lot of beeks. I look forward to seeing one. The sooner the better.


There are several available. Here's one example:

http://beetlejail.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=39&product_id=55


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## Slow Modem (Oct 6, 2011)

David LaFerney said:


> I made and deployed about a dozen of these around 6 weeks ago....


I think you might be on to something. 

I don't know all the legal ins and outs, but it seems to me that if you come up with an innovation that might shake the beekeeping world, it might be worth looking into a patent. There might already be one out there. But if there's not, you might could market that and make a bundle.


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## Bee Whisperer (Mar 24, 2013)

Wow David. I think you are really on to something here. :applause: I have been thinking for a long time about finding a better way to completely make the SHB extict from our continent. Can you imagine if every bee hive in the country had *"LaFerney SHB Traps," *we could maybe exterminate the SHB. I will play with your idea and see what it will do.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Thanks guys. I believe the best use of this idea is to get as many creative people as possible to freely adapt it to come up with the most effective form for everyone to share. I doubt if we will ever wipe out SHB, but we can probably learn to manage them a lot better.


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## Bee Whisperer (Mar 24, 2013)

I like to set my goals high - _*WIPE 'EM ALL OUT!*_ I say. :no:

Anyway, please keep your ideas going and let us know of any more discoveries. I am taking your idea to heart and putting both of my brain cells to work in that direction. Thank you so much for sharing this awesome idea.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Actually I do have another idea for this - put a trap out cone under the center section where the buggers go into the trap. It would have to be a lot thicker to accommodate this, but once there were in they would be a lot less likely to get back out.


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## Bee Whisperer (Mar 24, 2013)

That sounds ok though. I can't see where the thickness of the bottom would really be a bad thing. Maybe it would even act like a breeze suppressor and help out a little on cool days. 

I was playing with the idea of using strong pheromones that actually attract small hive beetles, and constructing a trap on the pattern of a wasp/hornet type system, and placing it in areas away from the hives. It sounds a little risky when you think of "attracting" the little buggers, but if it worked, it could draw them away from the hives and devastate the SHB population. Thoughts?


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

I'm kind of doing that here.


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## Genemiller (Jul 21, 2013)

Bee Whisperer said:


> That sounds ok though. I can't see where the thickness of the bottom would really be a bad thing. Maybe it would even act like a breeze suppressor and help out a little on cool days.
> 
> I was playing with the idea of using strong pheromones that actually attract small hive beetles, and constructing a trap on the pattern of a wasp/hornet type system, and placing it in areas away from the hives. It sounds a little risky when you think of "attracting" the little buggers, but if it worked, it could draw them away from the hives and devastate the SHB population. Thoughts?


I wouldnt add anything else that would attract more beetles. they have tried that tactic with the japanese beetle and it caused more problems then it solved. it attracted more beetles then normal but only trapped a few. i would look for plants that cover the smell like garlic and onion plants.

gene


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## Bee Whisperer (Mar 24, 2013)

Interesting David. That is aslo awesome about the hive . . . you saved it. :applause:


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## thenance007 (May 25, 2011)

deleted--duplication


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