# Robert Russell Apiaries - Update



## MTINAZ

I wanted to let everyone know some of the information that I discovered while trying to figure out who stole my hives. Robert Russell is running a big scam. He was going by the name Rob hughes on the phone and in person saying that rob hughes was Roberts employee and crew chief. He is very good at this and always referred to Robert as "Doc" in the third person. He even sent me PM's stating Rob was in Florida running their bees there and he was all over the country tending bees. I discovered this after the sheriffs office showed me a mug shot of Robert Russell and it was the same person I had been working with calling him self rob hughes. I personally do not believe he has more than a few hive and does not have all these different strains. Any strains he does have must of came from his fathers operation. The sheriff's office also told us he was charged in Philadelphia MS with taking someones money for bees and never delivering them. I believe most of the people working for him and running his "Russell apiaries family" sites also know all this. I would recommend anyone with orders with anyone associated with Robert Russell cancel them. The man is a dishonest crook. I speculate but have no proof that he was taking my bees all year long and selling them as nucs with phillip butts, one of his "employees"


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## BeeGhost

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Short rope...........tall tree...........oughtta do the trick.


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## Vance G

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

When I was falling out of the true believer fold and still frequenting his web site, I remember him offering people his fathers unused honey production yards where huge yields were the norm and his people would take care of them for you! I am sure they never got overpopulated.


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## MTINAZ

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



Vance G said:


> When I was falling out of the true believer fold and still frequenting his web site, I remember him offering people his fathers unused honey production yards where huge yields were the norm and his people would take care of them for you! I am sure they never got overpopulated.


 I think I was one of the few dumb enough to fall for this scam. There was only 10-12 hives of other peoples that were therer when I went to pick up what was left of my hives. If there was any huge honey crop it walked off with my hives.


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## Brandy

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Hey Mtinaz, sorry to hear about all that. Be sure to keep us posted on any more details you find out since you're one of the few that have actually been on the scene. The rest of us only have had our $$ taken and thought RA were crooks. Now you can verify that! 

Might be interesting to have some more chats with Paypal, since that was one of the many ways that RA was able to hide and not return the funds. Good luck, getting anything back from them.


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## urbanoutlaw

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



Great. If this is the case, what's the likelihood of getting your money back from a subproducer? Sure wish I'd known this before I placed the order....


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## Brandy

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Try it, ask for the refund before paypals time limit is up!! You gotta believe they also know what's going on.....


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## NY_BLUES

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Anyone that ordered queens from Russell Apiaries NY can contact me and I WILL refund any moneys paid. I feel terrible that any of this has happened. I am truely sorry, and I can say that I had NO idea of any of this when I associated my bee farm with RA. Anyone with orders for queens from Russell Apiaries NY will be receiving a full refund if they so choose.


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## Adrian Quiney WI

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Is there anything on this photobucket link that is helpful?helpfulhttp://s1040.beta.photobucket.com/u...edia/IMAG1386_zps2fac9910.jpg.html?sort=3&o=7


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## Tiny Barn Farm

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



Brandy said:


> Hey Mtinaz, sorry to hear about all that. Be sure to keep us posted on any more details you find out since you're one of the few that have actually been on the scene. The rest of us only have had our $$ taken and thought RA were crooks. Now you can verify that!
> 
> Might be interesting to have some more chats with Paypal, since that was one of the many ways that RA was able to hide and not return the funds. Good luck, getting anything back from them.


If you paid for something via pay pal and the seller didn't send it to your confirmed address(or sent it at all) and has proof via a tracking or delivery confirmation number Pay pal has to refund your money. I had a friend sell a boat on ebay, buyer paid with Pay pal then a month later(after picking the boat up) called pay pal and cancelled the payment. My friend was told since he didn't send it to the confirmed address listed with pay pal it's as though the buyer never received it and was given a refund. He had to get a lawyer involved and eventually got his money but it was a big harry mess. Google "paypal seller protection" Pay pal is very buyer friendly!


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## Brandy

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Tiny Barn Farm, believe me, I've tried everything with paypal. Once the 120 days or whatever is over, it doesn't matter what, who, how. They, Discover can't open up a dispute because of the time frame. Also, they'll say,(RA,) they can't give a refund since you got the dead queens, or missing in action queens, or drone laying queens. So, you can't have the product, dead queens, and a refund too. They required that you send back the drone laying queen etc.... If you paid paypal a year in advance for a piece of the "Moonbeam" lemonade, touche, goodbye, really no luck with paypal at allll!! 

Now, I did have a written response from Rob Hughes saying indeed they owed me queens and shippping. But I know you can guess by now, nothing happened. No response, no credit, no transfer, no nothing..... So, if they ever do catch up with this outfit I hope there's some stout dudes handy.....


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## Motj3

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



Adrian Quiney WI said:


> Is there anything on this photobucket link that is helpful?helpfulhttp://s1040.beta.photobucket.com/u...edia/IMAG1386_zps2fac9910.jpg.html?sort=3&o=7


Those are MTINAZ's described stolen hives. I wonder if state and/or fed authorities are looking at prosecuting RA as a company or Robert himself.


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## Motj3

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



NY_BLUES said:


> Anyone that ordered queens from Russell Apiaries NY can contact me and I WILL refund any moneys paid. I feel terrible that any of this has happened. I am truely sorry, and I can say that I had NO idea of any of this when I associated my bee farm with RA. Anyone with orders for queens from Russell Apiaries NY will be receiving a full refund if they so choose.


So why are you not un-associated? Just curious if there is some reason the sub-producers cant get the name off their bee farms.


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## jim lyon

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Last year after hearing the claims of 10's of thousands of queens shipped I posed the question on here asking where are all these customers at and if he is truly selling queens at this volume then why on earth wouldnt he just settle up all these small grievances if for no other reason to save the pr nightmare. I have a lot of connections with commercials and nobody I knew had even heard of Robert Russell, finally one person on the board spoke up and said that he had, in fact, purchased hundreds of queens and had personally witnessed the California operation where thousands were being shipped weekly. Who was this person? He went by the name of beehugheshoney I believe. Any attempts I made to subtly point this and all of the convenient excuses out to the board always opened you up to attacks. When MTINAZ came forward with his situation recently the pieces all just seemed to fit. Its truly a sad and unfortunate situation all the way around. This kind of thing happens, at times, to all of us as we go through life. Hence my signature line.


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## Brandy

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Jim, was that beehugheshoney??


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## jim lyon

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Yes Brandy, I apologize and I would have to do a lot of digging to find the old posting to confirm this. In any case it was someone by the name of Hughes that was the only person that came forward with information about large numbers of queens being shipped. I edited my post accordingly.


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## MTINAZ

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

that photo bucket link is my dad and I loading up our few remaining hives and all of our unused equipment that we shipped out that the bees were suppoesed to be split into with "rob hughes" and some of his employees. A few of the pictures are my hives durning the summer I think.


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## Brandy

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

I "think" looking back at some of the posts, that beehugheshoney is Rob Hughes supposedly father. But who knows.... corrupted story line in my mind!!

P.S. Someone posted on RA's site about Russell being a fraud and they took the post down. Interesting, but you could see that coming.


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## jim lyon

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Yes, he said his son worked for Russell's and that he (beehugheshoney) had personally seen the operation in California which claimed to ship 5,000 queens per week.


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## Barry

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Interesting how "Rob Hughes" stepped in and started being the "go to" guy at the very same time Robert Russell stopped making posts himself. What happened to TwinkieBee?


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## Barry

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

This one Jim?

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?268483-Russell-Queens&p=804136#post804136

[url]http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?268483-Russell-Queens&p=804198#post804198
[/URL]


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## SippyBees

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Have chewed my tongue until it's a bloody stubb.... am I vindicated yet????


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## jim lyon

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

That would be the one.


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## JRG13

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

I must say you called it Sippy.


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## MTINAZ

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



SippyBees said:


> Have chewed my tongue until it's a bloody stubb.... am I vindicated yet????


Almost, the only problem is ricky russell is also a convicted felon and you say you are his friend. I dont trust anyone in Mississippi.


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## MichaBees

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Can anyone supply a photograph of Robert Russell? - I would like to have a face for the scoundrel that took my money.


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## MTINAZ

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Real quick question. How come when I click on beehughshoney name on those old posts and click profile NY Blues name shows up. Is this just a software glitch?


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## MTINAZ

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



MichaBees said:


> Can anyone supply a photograph of Robert Russell?


Randy chatam at the rankin county sheriffs office is the one who showed me his mug shot to confirm the guy I had been working with was robert russell. Maybe give him a call.


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## SippyBees

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

MTINAZ.. I do understand how you feel and can't really blame you for that. Ricky does have a past yes... and I am not best friends with him or anyone over there... I am not "in business" with him as others have suggested... I just have 100% confidence that he would not rip you off.... he has too much to lose for such as that. I worked with his Daddy... never really knew Ricky until I was out of the bees. I don't need to defend Ricky... and you can think whatever you want about anyone. I was TRYING to help people get a grasp of why they lost their money... I THOUGHT I was helping... but I have been accused of pretty much lying/trying to smear RA to help myself/ and more since I started my own thread. 
It was not easy for me to say what I did considering much of the condemnation that came down on me.... but still everything I said was the truth. I felt after talking with you that maybe you even thought I was involved in some way.... I can assure you I am NOT involved with RA in any way... nor did I have any first hand information about your loss. I am an honest guy and I do not need to try to defend myself in an internet forum. Had I said all I said a year ago.... you would not have believed it then either. It JUST so happened that I got back into bees recently.... so recently is when I posted what I knew. I did not PLAN my posts.... I did not set out to defame anyone.... am not trying to hurt anyone.... but as I have stated many times now... I absolutely hate a liar.
I am truly sorry for your losses.... and I hope that you will not always feel the same about people from Mississippi. If I DID know anything that would bring the criminals to justice... or that would get your property back... you can be SURE I would be the first one in line to scream to the police. I wish you luck...


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## MTINAZ

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



SippyBees said:


> I was TRYING to help people get a grasp of why they lost their money... I THOUGHT I was helping... but I have been accused of pretty much lying/trying to smear RA to help myself/ and more since I started my own thread.
> It was not easy for me to say what I did considering much of the condemnation that came down on me.... but still everything I said was the truth. I felt after talking with you that maybe you even thought I was involved in some way.... I can assure you I am NOT involved with RA in any way.. I am an honest guy and I do not need to try to defend myself in an internet forum. Had I said all I said a year ago.... you would not have believed it then either.I am truly sorry for your losses..


I understand what you are saying and you have taken a beating, but you have to admit when you talked to me right afterword and basicly wanted my business it raised huge red flags.


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## SippyBees

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

AHHH... I would use a PM, but since you say it aloud here... I must say... I was only trying to help you Sir. I currently have 11 hives... a FAR FAR cry from a business. IF I ever DO raise bees as a business, it will NOT be in the near future. Ricky has sent several... don't know how many... but several queens FREE to people that got ripped off by Robert... just to try to keep his Dad's good name. I offered to try to help you replace what you had lost... as best as I could...just to try to help you out of a loss, but I am NOT in competition with RA's. I am truly sorry for what you may have thought of me after we talked on the phone. I have already spoken to the sheriff's department and told them whatever I knew... which wasn't much... and I know for a FACT that I am in NO WAY connected to your loss. I did not say all I said in order to help MYSELF in ANY WAY... regardless what you or anyone else may think. 
Again... sorry for your loss


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## jeff123fish

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



MTINAZ said:


> How come when I click on beehughshoney name on those old posts and click profile NY Blues name shows up. Is this just a software glitch?


they are/were friends here on beesource so when one makes a comment it gets posted on the others profile page


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## MTINAZ

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



jeff123fish said:


> they are/were friends here on beesource so when one makes a comment it gets posted on the others profile page


ok I see


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## dnichols

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Here is something confusing. I got this reply #9 from a poster named Joseph Clemens re: my post Optimal # of hives or outyards for queen rearing: and at the end of the post he links his website. When I clicked on it it went here. Is this the same guy? 
http://russellapiariesaz.webs.com/


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## Lazy W

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



MTINAZ said:


> I dont trust anyone in Mississippi.


Hold on Now... Everyone in Mississippi is not a thief. We have our TRASH just like everyone else.


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## MTINAZ

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



dnichols said:


> Here is something confusing. I got this reply #9 from a poster named Joseph Clemens re: my post Optimal # of hives or outyards for queen rearing: and at the end of the post he links his website. When I clicked on it it went here. Is this the same guy?
> http://russellapiariesaz.webs.com/


No joseph clemens lives in Tucson. I have met him and his wife. Not sure what part he has in all this.


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## MichaBees

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



MTINAZ said:


> No joseph clemens lives in Tucson. I have met him and his wife. Not sure what part he has in all this.


Joseph is just a good honest and honorable guy.


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## MTINAZ

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

I have had a few PM's so wanted to clear something up. If you ever emailed, met, spoke to Rob Hughes you were talking with Robert Russell. As far as the sub producers go I am willing to bet a few were scammed like I was and if you personally know them and there bees then buying from them is up to you. From the one time I met Joseph he seemed like a good guy and I highly doubt he ever met Robert.


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## DRUR

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

I purchased queens from Joseph last summer. These were out of Russells sunkist cordovan stock. These were sent via priority mail as per my request and arrived in bad shape as per the heat. I was able to 'nurse' them back alive [most the workers were dead] or should I say that I put fresh workers from my colonies and they nursed them back [the queens arrived lethargic and I didn't think they would make it]. Joseph has made good on queens shipped that arrived dead through no fault of his own but rather the post office failing to timely ship. Actually, these queens were for someone that I helped get into bees and he was making splits and using Joseph's queens [From Russell's stock]. During that time Joseph was not associated with Russell other than he had some of his sunkist stock that he was raising queens from. I occassionally read and check my private messages but seldom post anymore; but Joseph's name brought me out of the woodwork. Just saying that all my dealings with Joseph have been outstanding.

Kindest Regards
Danny Unger


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## Spark

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Wow, what a soap opera with Russell!!! Just waiting for Specialkayme to chime in or maybe apologize.


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## Beregondo

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Are you all aware that there is in fact a Rob Hughes, Jr and a Rob Hughes Sr living in Brandon, MS?

Can't imagine in a place that size that there'd be too many extras...Rob Hughes definitely exists as a separate person apart from the person of Russell, and is not a fictional person.

Even given the stellar reputation that rural southern police have for being corruption free... have you considered the possibility that Los Angeles and NYC aren't the only places where law enforcement officials might give a guy less than accurate information? (whether by error or intent?)


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## NY_BLUES

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



Motj3 said:


> So why are you not un-associated? Just curious if there is some reason the sub-producers cant get the name off their bee farms.


Motj3-
What I mean is my name. I tied my name to that of Russell Apiaries in a plan to be able to offer the genetic stock of Russell Apiaries to the general public, after they stopped taking orders from the public. I had numerous orders last year that I did deliver queens to. I have never taken an order that I was unable to fill. If I couldnt get the number of queens or cells by a certain date, I contacted the buyer and worked with them to either produce them or not, and I certainly didnt take anyones money without delivering product.
I was unaware of any wrong doings by Robert/Rob, other than some folks who were waiting for queens that were late, when I decided to become a Sub producer for RA. I did not know any of the information that was brought to light in this thread, until MTINAZ spoke up. I can assure everyone that there was not any knowledge by any of the "sub producers" of any of the accusations made in this thread. I would say that the subs are honest, hardworking folks that may have gotten caught up in a mess that was not of their making, nor their desire.


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## ginnboy

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

I would second that on the sub producers.


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## Beregondo

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Having purchased both from NY_BLUES at Russell Apiaries NY & Jason Varner at RA/Pennsylvania last year, I can say that both the queens and service I got from both of them were excellent.

I've already purchased a nuc this year from NY_BLUES and will be getting a couple of Moonbeam queens from Jason in PA.

I recommend both of them frequently to my friends.


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## camero7

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



> Are you all aware that there is in fact a Rob Hughes, Jr and a Rob Hughes Sr living in Brandon, MS?


And you know this how? A google search doesn't bring them up


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## Barry

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



Beregondo said:


> Rob Hughes definitely exists as a separate person apart from the person of Russell, and is not a fictional person.


Have you meet both of these "individuals"?


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## deknow

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

So what are the queens called "Sunkist" "moonbeam" etc? 
Deknow


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## Brandy

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Kind of curious if the sub producers are trying to find out any of these inner dealings?? Who were they dealing with? What do they know?? No wonder other than NY Blues they're all quiet..

From the RA site, where most of the sub producers are members and posters, PDGHoney looks to be the overseer of this program that MTINAZ was in with hives on a flow year round. If you check out the PDGHoney store with photobucket, many of the photos were posted by supposedly Dr. Robert Russell showing his mating yards years ago on this site. Hopefully, someone is able to hold them accountable.


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## camero7

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

One wonders if PDGHoney, Rob Hughes and Robert Russell are the same person. 



> So what are the queens called "Sunkist" "moonbeam" etc?


I got Carni's and Caucasians from him. Couldn't see much difference and they all sucked and/or died/disappeared. I had some Moonbeams on order, which I'm sure I'll never see. Really makes me wonder what these "sub-producers" are selling. Lots of claims but little substance as far as I've seen.


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## Specialkayme

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



Spark said:


> Just waiting for Specialkayme to chime in or maybe apologize.


And apologize I shall.

I, like many others, met Rob Hughes, but never met or spoke with Robert Russell. I had no idea what was going on. I'm very sorry to those individuals that were harmed by the RA outfit. I'm very sorry to those individuals that I took opposite positions with on the topic of RA in the past. If Rob and Robert really are the same person, I feel sick to my stomach. If somehow they are not, there are still too many questions left unanswered (and unanswerable) to make things ok.

Individuals have still not received their refunds, despite multiple requests from those individuals (and requests by me) for RA to refund those monies. No one can get a complete understanding of where their yards are located, or in what states. I've asked RA to give me some type of evidence, any type, that what they are saying is accurate. RA is not a company that is registered with the MS Secretary of State. I was told they were in business decades ago. I asked for a copy of the Articles of Incorporation, but I received none. I asked for information on where Robert received his PhD from, but I received no such information. I asked for a copy of JN's will that gave him all the hives, since it is supposed to be public record, but I received no such copy.

When I went down to meet Robert, I was told the day before that he was called out of town on business, and I could meet Rob instead. Now I find out that is the same story that was given to every individual that went down to pick up bees and/or equipment. Again, I'm so sorry. I had no idea.

I also apologize for not speaking up sooner. I had limited access to the CR forums, so wasn't able to say anything sooner.

My deepest and sincerest apologies to all individuals who were wronged, cheated, and/or deceived. My even greater apologies for being involved in the matter, and being unable to see the truth before defending RA. For what it's worth, I still have an outstanding order with RA that was not fulfilled in 2012. A few hundred dollars. 

I hope some of you can forgive me.


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## jim lyon

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Very nicely said speck. I think it's important not to dwell anymore about who said what in the past but as a group to try to learn from this experience. I think we were all taken in to varying degrees. I have my own regrets for not having been a little more persistent about airing my doubts based on what I had learned talking to others. I knew that some real "whoppers" were being told but I had no idea of the scope of what was going on.


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## VolunteerK9

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



deknow said:


> So what are the queens called "Sunkist" "moonbeam" etc?
> Deknow


Havent even thought about that before now. How as a sub producer could you advertise in good faith having a particular brand or breed with particular traits when so far everything about the parent operation has been nothing but smoke and mirrors. (yeah, Im good at run on sentences) .


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## MTINAZ

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Below is a portion of the reply I got from Robert when I made the post on his site.

Robert Russell replied to your message on Russell Apiaries 

-------------------- 
Subject: hive update 

Caffery email... Hey Clinton, 

Glad to hear that you guys had a safe trip... I want to apologize to you for hiding my identity as Rob Hughes when meeting with you and your father... on the forums it had gotten too hard for me to even make small posts without getting bombarded by questions about my opinions and methods, and in person I was having troubles with people asking for me to give them things for free and to talking bees for much longer than I had time for... 
-------------------- 

To reply to this message, follow the link below: 
http://russellapiaries.webs.com


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## Barry

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



Specialkayme said:


> And apologize I shall.


Thanks for your words. As Jim said, I think it's important that as a group, we work together in these matters to do what it right, truthful and honest, as hard as that is at times with this medium. I'm glad to see the extent you went to to try and verify where the truth was.

I get very upset at the thought that anyone would use this site for their personal gain at the expense of other members. I do my best to try and prevent this.


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## camero7

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

As my mom used to say, "the devil will out himself."


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## Brandy

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

The frightening thing about this to me, is "he/they" obviously have had this scam working successfully for awhile. If he'd/they honored a few more requests and refunds there's no doubt in my mind I would have let it go. Continued to give them the benefit of the doubt also. But at some point they RA, Rob Hughes, Robbert Russell, RDGHoney, got a little greedy and saw their "practice" was working satisfactorily for them so why honor anymore requests for refunds than absolutely necessary. They had enough supporters on these sites to keep the detractors at bay. Also enough new beekeepers that didn't have a clue and willingly sent their dollars. Scary to be so totally scammed!

Thanks SpecialK, appreciate your experiences and your honesty.

P.S. Where's Twinkle Bee when we need her?


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## MichaBees

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

So;

"let's go get the rope!"


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## camero7

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Hey Spec. I admire your loyalty. You just aren't as old and cynical as some of the rest of us. Nothing to forgive. Not long ago we were dealing with Long Creek. I'm sure there's another coming down the road. Beekeepers are pretty honest but there is always one in every crowd.


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## deknow

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

.....there were reports that queens from Russell were bred to have noticeable excess of queen pheromone.......were they simply sprayed with the stuff, or were they really bred for that trait?
Deknow


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## jim lyon

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Another note: Just for clarification there is a member that apparently goes by his real name of Rob Hughes, as near as I can tell he shares no connection whatsoever with any of these folks or this situation. The alias' that RR were posting under were beehugheshoney and TwinkieBee


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## camero7

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



deknow said:


> .....there were reports that queens from Russell were bred to have noticeable excess of queen pheromone.......were they simply sprayed with the stuff, or were they really bred for that trait?
> Deknow


Never saw it in the queens I got from him. Had much better acceptance with other queen producers.


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## jim lyon

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



deknow said:


> .....there were reports that queens from Russell were bred to have noticeable excess of queen pheromone.......were they simply sprayed with the stuff, or were they really bred for that trait?
> Deknow


I would be fairly certain that they were just a bit more (ahem) mature.


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## camero7

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



jim lyon said:


> Another note: Just for clarification there is a member that apparently goes by his real name of Rob Hughes, as near as I can tell he shares no connection whatsoever with any of these folks or this situation. The alias' that RR were posting under were beehugheshoney and TwinkieBee


another quote, supposedly from Robert Russell


> I want to apologize to you for hiding my identity as Rob Hughes when meeting with you and your father


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## deknow

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



jim lyon said:


> I would be fairly certain that they were just a bit more (ahem) mature.


Oh....MILGF..... mother's I'd like to graft from.

Deknow


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## Barry

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



jim lyon said:


> Another note: Just for clarification there is a member that apparently goes by his real name of Rob Hughes, as near as I can tell he shares no connection whatsoever with any of these folks or this situation.


Thanks for pointing this out, Jim. All indications concur that there is no connection.


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## NY_BLUES

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

As far as queen strains go, i do believe that we are offering genuinely good queens, we sub producers i mean. I didnt offer to raise and sell some of Russell's more exotic strains, but stuck to the Sunkist Italian, and buckfast. It is not hard to think that these queen types would have the claimed genes that were said that were in them, as there are multiple queen breeders that offer buckfast, such as miksa and ferguson, and there have been multiple advertisments by multiple people, offering the sunkist line, that is really a product of JN Russell. If robert got JN's hives, then he must have gotten JN's genetic lines also. This is speculation on my part, as i have never seen their operation. 
This is why i have offered a refund to anyone that purchased queens from me, as Russell Apiaries NY,for this coming spring, as i do want to raise queens and offer them for sale, and i dont want to add bad blood from such a terrible issue as this.
specialkayme, i applaude you, it takes a lot for anyone to say that they were wrong, but you also went above and beyond to find out about RA, thank you


----------



## Joel

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

NY Blues - Kudo's for you for stepping up to the plate and taking responsiblity - it says alot about the kind of person/business person you are as opposed to remaining silent

Sippy - Taking everyting into account - including your friendship with Ricky - your're golden with me! Perhaps much of your issue was the passion attached to your posts which I now look at as trying prevent further damage. Clearly running 11 hives there is no commercial gain here for you in the near future. 

Mtinaz - What you have told us about the investigation sound like good follow through and I think one way or another RR may end up in hot water up to his neck and those around him who have knowledge will be singing like birds to avoid possible prosecution. In any crime where there is more than one person with knowledge, as obviously stealing your hives was, there will be a weak link in the chain and I suspect The Sheriffs Dept. will find and exploit that link. keep us posted.


----------



## Brandy

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

NY Blues, who did you deal with?? Did you ever speak to Dr. Robert Russell, or only emails? Visit his breeding yards?


----------



## AstroBee

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

All I can say is that I'm so glad that I dodged this bullet. I was one of the first to start talking with RR about becoming a "sub-producer". We carried out these discussions long before the term "sub-producer" was even considered. We had lengthy PM's about the intricate measures that he required to become part of the family. It all seemed very convoluted and I even bounced it off our state apiarist, who issued a "proceed with caution" note to me. One of the last communications (came through as Robert Hughes) was an invitation to become a sub-producer and the requirement of over $3000 to join the "club". With all the complaints coupled with "cloak and mirror" nonsense discussed in our PM's I decided that there were other avenues to queen rearing. 

He sure seemed real.... I guess this is why so many gotten taken. A colleague from one of our local clubs got taken based upon my recommendation. I plan to make it right with that man this season by providing replacement queens free of charge.


----------



## Brandy

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

AstroBee, that was a pretty good sized bullet you dodged!


----------



## Lburou

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



Joel said:


> NY Blues - Kudo's for you for stepping up to the plate and taking responsiblity - it says alot about the kind of person/business person you are as opposed to remaining silent
> 
> Sippy - Taking everyting into account - snip- your're golden with me! -snip-
> 
> Mtinaz - What you have told us about the investigation sound like good follow through and I think one way or another RR may end up in hot water up to his neck and those around him who have knowledge will be singing like birds to avoid possible prosecution. -snip-


Good summary Joel, to which I would add a suggestion that Barry add a new forum listing bad actors in the bee business, actors to avoid if you want to deal with reputable vendors. Also for Barry, consider going to and change Rob Hughes's name to something like: The good Rob Hughes. 

ADDED: A feedback forum like this might help the board in the future. I'm a moderator on the board at that link. The feedback forum is a lion on a leash, but can work for the good of the membership.


----------



## kincade

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

I'm still finding it hard to reconcile why my order was received and so many others were taken. RR's 'method' in this fiasco seems to have little rhyme or reason and I feel so sorry for those who were taken for much larger amounts of money than I had personally risked. 

I can't seem to find my last post on this in the Russell thread, but to reiterate my experience I ordered a single queen last spring to replace a bad queen in a package I had received. Queen was delayed in the MS post office for 3 days in the heat and did not lay for 3 weeks. After an email to 'victoria' RR sent another queen at no charge overnight USPS. I started the first queen on a nuc who started laying shortly thereafter (banked queen or just the heat?) and both hives did fairly well over the summer seem to be still alive (although it is still too cold here to do a full inspection). Had I thought my money was at risk or any shady business was occurring I would have ordered elsewhere. I can't figure out why he would fulfill mine and send a replacement at his cost yet take so many other's money without so much as a response. It's sad and infuriating.

I just looked through some of my correspondence with 'Victoria' last spring and saw a message that might help some of you out. I had told her I appreciated them sending a replacement queen so quickly, and asked where I could send a thank you card.



> I will pass that msg along. If you'd like you can send a card to 212 Fannin Landing Cir. Brandon MS 39047. I basically eat, sleep, and live work lately. Lol. Thank you for the kind words and I hope you enjoy your queens.
> Victoria Ball
> Russell Apiaries
> www.russellapiaries.com


In any case, I'm not sure if that address had been posted earlier but if not maybe it might help someone out. Good luck to you all who have lost their hard earned dollars. You have my sympathies and you've been nicer about it than I would have been.


----------



## camero7

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

That address is also the address for American Comfort Portable Toilet Rental. 212 Fannin Landing Cir, Brandon, MS 39047. (601) 829-3721


----------



## Lburou

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



camero7 said:


> That address is also the address for American Comfort Portable Toilet Rental. -snip-


ROTFL.......That is just the pick-me-up I needed after reading this thread Cam


----------



## MSBEEINSPECTOR

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Thank you, “jim lyon” for your comment on #51 “but as a group to try to learn from this experience." Several months ago waynesgarden's #206 post on “FOULBROOD IN APIARY…..” stated “I read the post by MSBEEINSPECTOR and, after unecessary preaching”. With that I hesitate to say much, except as Sean Hannity says "TRUST, BUT VERIFY". What I will say at this point, has to do with any individual on this forum doing what is so easy. During the AFB issue I did a simple "word & phrase" search on goggle. Russell's long oration on the bacteria that he claimed he was going to teach everyone "I will first explain the bacteria", was in fact a word for word copy & paste of (MediaWiki:Copyright), and two pages from © 2011 Kenneth Todar, PhD. Sometimes a soap box built on someone else's information may crumble under your weigh.


----------



## Barry

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



kincade said:


> 212 Fannin Landing Cir. Brandon MS 39047. I basically eat, sleep, and live work lately. Lol. Thank you for the kind words and I hope you enjoy your queens.
> Victoria Ball


You'll notice on Google that there is no Victoria Ball in Brandon. There are 3 Victoria Ball's in MS and the closest one to this address is over 100 miles away in Louisville! That would be one daily commute, wouldn't it!


----------



## AstroBee

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



MSBEEINSPECTOR said:


> Russell's long oration on the bacteria that he claimed he was going to teach everyone "I will first explain the bacteria", was in fact a word for word copy & paste of (MediaWiki:Copyright), and two pages from © 2011 Kenneth Todar, PhD.


Oh my! I remember that thread well and it was one of the things that started to convince me that RR really knew his stuff.


----------



## jim lyon

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Dare I even ask if anyone ever corroborated the story about the tragic vehicle death of two employees that supposedly set production back considerably? Maybe I dont want to know that answer to that one.


----------



## NDnewbeek

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

This from the Russell website today:

"Holdover/Transfer orders and Cancellations 

Due to the many struggles that we have faced during the 2012 season with the storm damages, the traggic loss of vital members of our crews, a large turn over of office staff, and the discovery of major health issues of our administration, there were significant breaks in our abilities to communicate with our customers. As a result, a small amount orders were not shipped. While the majority of the customers that were effected by this have rescheduled their deliveries to spring of 2013, you are welcome to request that we cancel your order instead if you would prefer. To have your 2012 order shipped in 2013 by the main company, shipped by your Local Russell Apiaries location, or request a cancellation, please send an email to [email protected] "

perhaps it is old news?

I also noticed that they are WAY down in the number of breeds they profess to produce. Only 7 - a couple variations on Sunkist, Carniolan, Italian/Carniolan, and "Tiger" and "Pollinator"

where are the Moonbeams, Russians, etc.?


----------



## Barry

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



camero7 said:


> That address is also the address for American Comfort Portable Toilet Rental. 212 Fannin Landing Cir, Brandon, MS 39047. (601) 829-3721


There appears to be two different properties with this address.

http://www.homes.com/Home-Prices/ID-700015692359/212-FANNIN-LANDING-CIR/


----------



## camero7

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Interesting and Google Maps lists it as "Russell Apiaries"


----------



## Brandy

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Here's the BBB listing with only 7 complaints and an F score. No duh! We should alllll probably follow up.

http://www.bbb.org/mississippi/Business-Reviews/beekeepers/russell-apiaries-in-brandon-ms-235821158


----------



## guyross

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Who is BSH honey? Beyond Sweet Honey? I saw some of their equipment while in Brandon.


----------



## guyross

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Your equipment is still on their premises.


MTINAZ said:


> that photo bucket link is my dad and I loading up our few remaining hives and all of our unused equipment that we shipped out that the bees were suppoesed to be split into with "rob hughes" and some of his employees. A few of the pictures are my hives durning the summer I think.


----------



## guyross

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Has anyone met Doc?


ginnboy said:


> I would second that on the sub producers.


----------



## Beregondo

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



camero7 said:


> And you know this how? A google search doesn't bring them up


I didn’t use google.
But it only took a few minute online to determine this.
I expect one could get the same result by going old school and using a phone book 




Barry said:


> Have you meet both of these "individuals"?


Nope, I haven't meet either of them.
Nor have I met you.

It doesn't take a face to face for a reasonable person to determine someone exists. 

In this case, a phone directory search established that the local phone vendor provides landline service to Rob Hughes, Jr & Rob Hughes, Sr of Brandon, MS.
I did a phone directory search for the names.


----------



## guyross

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

That address is where I saw BSH equipment.


kincade said:


> I'm still finding it hard to reconcile why my order was received and so many others were taken. RR's 'method' in this fiasco seems to have little rhyme or reason and I feel so sorry for those who were taken for much larger amounts of money than I had personally risked.
> 
> I can't seem to find my last post on this in the Russell thread, but to reiterate my experience I ordered a single queen last spring to replace a bad queen in a package I had received. Queen was delayed in the MS post office for 3 days in the heat and did not lay for 3 weeks. After an email to 'victoria' RR sent another queen at no charge overnight USPS. I started the first queen on a nuc who started laying shortly thereafter (banked queen or just the heat?) and both hives did fairly well over the summer seem to be still alive (although it is still too cold here to do a full inspection). Had I thought my money was at risk or any shady business was occurring I would have ordered elsewhere. I can't figure out why he would fulfill mine and send a replacement at his cost yet take so many other's money without so much as a response. It's sad and infuriating.
> 
> I just looked through some of my correspondence with 'Victoria' last spring and saw a message that might help some of you out. I had told her I appreciated them sending a replacement queen so quickly, and asked where I could send a thank you card.
> 
> 
> 
> In any case, I'm not sure if that address had been posted earlier but if not maybe it might help someone out. Good luck to you all who have lost their hard earned dollars. You have my sympathies and you've been nicer about it than I would have been.


----------



## MTINAZ

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



kincade said:


> I'm still finding it hard to reconcile why my order was received and so many others were taken. RR's 'method' in this fiasco seems to have little rhyme or reason and I feel so sorry for those who were taken for much larger amounts of money than I had personally risked.
> 
> I can't seem to find my last post on this in the Russell thread, but to reiterate my experience I ordered a single queen last spring to replace a bad queen in a package I had received. Queen was delayed in the MS post office for 3 days in the heat and did not lay for 3 weeks. After an email to 'victoria' RR sent another queen at no charge overnight USPS. I started the first queen on a nuc who started laying shortly thereafter (banked queen or just the heat?) and both hives did fairly well over the summer seem to be still alive (although it is still too cold here to do a full inspection). Had I thought my money was at risk or any shady business was occurring I would have ordered elsewhere. I can't figure out why he would fulfill mine and send a replacement at his cost yet take so many other's money without so much as a response. It's sad and infuriating.


He also treated me very good in the past sending out queens and refunding some money on some. That is why I trusted him, I never had an issue. I all really is confusing. I know somewhere there is a post from joseph clemens (who I think most would agree is a decent guy) when he got some russell queens about how good they were and how well they did.


----------



## SippyBees

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Sorry MTINAZ... just gonna add a little more info that people are speculating about
JN Russell had ONE race of bee he sold. He sold "Sunkist Italian" bees.. they were specifically bred and maintained the recessive cordovan color.... he often called them orange heads. Where the other 11 races of bees that are sold through RA came from... your guess is as good as any. JN Russell had an EXCELLENT Italian bee... and many people knew him and his bees.

There is a Robert Russell.... a REAL Rob Hughes Jr... a REAL Phillip Butts... a REAL Rob Hughes Sr..... Robert, Rob Hughes, and Phillip Butts are all in the same age group... went to school together.... hung out together... were tight, so to speak. WHO knew WHAT,WHEN and HOW I think will be determined in time. But if Robert was using Rob Hughes as an alias... is hard to believe that the REAL Rob Hughes did not know about it.

Someone told me that Hughes Sr. was a beekeeper over outside of Edwards MS on Hwy 22... Edwards, Learned, Raymond, Bolton, Vicksburg.. are all relatively near to each other. JN Russell lived in Bolton.. and THAT has always been Russell Apiaries until his death. Ricky now lives in his Dad's house.... I live outside Raymond... about 7 miles from JN Russell's place.

My personal opinion after talking to many people who know Robert ( as everyone here knows I have never seen or met Robert ), is that Robert did not SET OUT to defraud anyone.... however... when things did not go as well as planned and he came up short.... well.. the money was already in his pocket, and HIS needs outweighed YOUR needs. His exaggerated claims I think were just supposed to help him get more business.... and maybe make him feel bigger than life.... BUT, you can only sell what bees you can raise. So as he started getting behind.... someone had to pay.... that was the customers who got nothing. I don't think he ever raised any bees/queens seriously until after his Dad died, and with little experience it got the better of him. I know for a fact it is not an easy task to raise 100's of queens a week for a whole season consistently. I believe I could do it... because I was part of JN's team that did it.... and I watched and learned as I did it. I do not think I could READ about it here and be able to do it though. 
I also believe he could have sold just as many bees if he just claimed to have a good bee and raised them consistently.... no need for smoke and mirrors. His Father never did it.... so why did HE need to do it?

Robert has truly dug himself into a serious hole.... maybe you can pity his wife and 3 kids if nothing else. I honestly hope he straightens it all out... cuz I KNOW he has some good stock if they are still living. As they say " What a tangled web we weave.... " 
I know his father liked to brag a bit... that is normal in Queen breeders I think... but his father would NEVER have agreed to such blatant stretches of the truth. 

Personally... don't ever lie to me... I do not care about your intentions or motives or anything else.... I will not lie to YOU, and I DEMAND that same respect from anyone I deal with. That is never negotiable.
I feel just a bit of shame from my whole association with the whole mess.... but we all have a mentor that got us interested in Bees... for ME that was JN Russell. I also recently remembered one of the bigger guys who bought queens from JN that I met before... anyone here know a "Hanson Honey" in Illinois or Indiana... ?? One of those "I" states somewhere in the middle..  HE can tell you about Russell Apiaries also.... the REAL Russell Apiaries. 

Maybe my timing was bad when I started all of this.... but I did not CHOOSE when I got interested in bees again... I did not know all that was happening before I got back on this forum. You can ask Barry... I was last here in 2007.... had to get the moderators to reset my password since my email had changed in the last 5 years,,, because I wanted to keep my original login name. 
My address and phone is open to the public.... I have not and will not hide from anyone.... and I will go a long way to try to build your trust in me if it is possible.


----------



## Barry

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



Beregondo said:


> Nope, I haven't meet either of them.
> Nor have I met you.
> 
> It doesn't take a face to face for a reasonable person to determine someone exists.


It's already been shown by MTINAZ that the two are one and the same. I guess a face to face really is needed in this case.


----------



## LT

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Be glad when spring arrives and people start working bees and are to busy so this thread can disapear!


----------



## urbanoutlaw

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Based on an email I just got I think it's about to hit the fan....


----------



## alblancher

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Well,

Now I'm curious!


----------



## ashb82

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

So there are no bees that fly at night on a full moon lol


----------



## MTINAZ

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



SippyBees said:


> My personal opinion after talking to many people who know Robert ( as everyone here knows I have never seen or met Robert ), is that Robert did not SET OUT to defraud anyone.... however... when things did not go as well as planned and he came up short.... well.. the money was already in his pocket, and HIS needs outweighed YOUR needs. His exaggerated claims I think were just supposed to help him get more business.... and maybe make him feel bigger than life.... BUT, you can only sell what bees you can raise. So as he started getting behind.... someone had to pay.... that was the customers who got nothing. I don't think he ever raised any bees/queens seriously until after his Dad died, and with little experience it got the better of him
> 
> .


This is also my personal opinon.


----------



## Arkansas Beekeeper

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Boy am I confused! We ordered 12 nucs last winter. After several emails and persistent badgering, we forced the issue and finally got the go-ahead to pick up our nucs. We drove to the Branden MS address. Rob met us at the apiary, which was a house with equipment scattered about. Rob was a young man (late 20's). About 5'11". He was polite and seemed knowledgeable. We drove out to several fields and picked out our nucs after going through some that had recently swarmed. He checked every nuc for a queen. Loaded up my truck and drove all night back home. We toured his shop where he grafted queens. Other than the house, it seemed legitimate. I am not defending anyone but this seems too surreal.


----------



## guyross

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



Arkansas Beekeeper said:


> Boy am I confused! We ordered 12 nucs last winter. After several emails and persistent badgering, we forced the issue and finally got the go-ahead to pick up our nucs. We drove to the Branden MS address. Rob met us at the apiary, which was a house with equipment scattered about. Rob was a young man (late 20's). About 5'11". He was polite and seemed knowledgeable. We drove out to several fields and picked out our nucs after going through some that had recently swarmed. He checked every nuc for a queen. Loaded up my truck and drove all night back home. We toured his shop where he grafted queens. Other than the house, it seemed legitimate. I am not defending anyone but this seems too surreal.


Rob was always helpful if there was a problem with a queen. One time they sent me a breeder as a replacement for a failed Tiger. I was more than refunded my money on misunderstandings in doing business with RA. I'm just sad it had to end this way. Robert get well soon.
Guy


----------



## the doc

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Sippy, I think at one time I questioned your motives and I am sorry about that. My experience was that Russell was very helpful at first, and then hard to get ahold of, no deliverables - probably getting in over his head by then. I was dumb for prepaying like that. Live and learn unfortunately.

My two transactions with the nebraska and PA subs were great though. Quickly delivered and otherwise would get their bees again.


----------



## NY_BLUES

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

This whole scam is absolutely terrible. I am whole heartedly sorry that i even put myself in a position to be exploited, and worse off, see others get exploited as well. There are many people effected by this one mans actions. We all bought into what we thought was a stellar operation, a very knowledgable person, and great bee genetics. Instead, what we got were late or no existant queens and bees, and many headaches. There were those that defended RA, because of great customer service and good queens, and those that warned of problems with RA early on. Now i am left wondering why so many people couldnt see what was happening, myself included in that. I am ashamed that i didnt figure robert out sooner. I can only tell those effected that no one in the sub producers group was in on any scam, we were all suckered like everyone else. We were fed lie after lie and its now come down to this. One man created this huge mess, and many folks have lost something, mostly our hard earned money.


----------



## thomas

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

I will not buy from any of his guy's due to the fact of the mess that has been going on half of these guys are selling more of their own stock then russells. I wanted to buy a breeder caucasian queen from one of his guys and all this guy could tell me was he did not know when he would get any so that tells me not to bother. I got one of his queens and she did good but what if i wanted more can not rely on Russell and his group sad case there are others out there that has good queens and worth the cost but these guys make it bad for others. If anyone can get a breeder queen caucasian let me know i would then think on it i am looking.Now don't get me wrong maybe there is some that are doing what is right but times is hard and good people do not have money too waste and many want good queens this whole thing has been a night mare just plan sad.

Thomas


----------



## NY_BLUES

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



thomas said:


> I will not buy from any of his guy's due to the fact of the mess that has been going on half of these guys are selling more of their own stock then russells...Thomas


Thomas, I wouldnt worry about buying russell genetics from any of the sub producers, i dont think any of us are going to be associated with this man anymore. I am not, that is a fact. I will be fulfilling orders that have already been placed, or refund the at the customers descretion, and i will be concentrating on my own bees and queens.


----------



## thomas

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Well i am not trying too be mean but if you had spent money like the rest here you would want your bees and plus that if you did not get your bees then you want your hard earned money back it's only fair. I think i had talked with you before about getting some caucasians if you can get some for yourself you better while you still can and if you do let me know that way you can raise your own queens from them too sell and if you did let me know.

Thomas


----------



## NY_BLUES

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Thomas,
I do know how people here feel, as I am out a hefty sum of cash also. Please dont think that I am trying to pull the wool over anyones eyes, I have lost in this scam too. I just wish i would have researched everything closer when the sub producers group started, then i wouldnt be out as much money.


----------



## WPG

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

WOW!!

I can hardly believe I lucked out by being my usual (Day Late and a Dollar Short).


Sure loved the story of all that family bee business history.

Moonbeams aren't real huh?

Thought for sure I got someones Moonbeam cross with a Cordovan in a well paid cutout, late summer.

All the charactoristics, love'm, small cluster but still alive as of 54 degree day Monday.

Foragers still returning 40 minutes after sunset.

Guess I'll just stick with the locals.

Goodluck everyone.


----------



## Vance G

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

He tried to get me to buy a sub-producer license for $3000, plus cost of cells and shipping. Is that what you are into or worse? A sucker is born every day and I helped keep up the average.! It just didn't ring true after I had scrambled to find queens for splits I needed to make that were never going to come. The aggravation was worse than the loss of money.



NY_BLUES said:


> Thomas,
> I do know how people here feel, as I am out a hefty sum of cash also. Please dont think that I am trying to pull the wool over anyones eyes, I have lost in this scam too. I just wish i would have researched everything closer when the sub producers group started, then i wouldnt be out as much money.


----------



## urbanoutlaw

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

I hope the subproducers have some legal recourse. I feel sorry for those refunding sales on top of getting scammed and in some cases being victims of theft.


----------



## NY_BLUES

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Vance and Urban- You were atleast wise enough not to get involved. I am not out $3000 bucks, but i am out quite a bit, but I wont air my financial information on a public forum. I believe that there could be some legal recourse, but I am still weighing my options at this point, as are many of the sub producers. I have spoke to many of them in the last 24 hours, and it seems most of us are out money, which would add up to a nice amount for anyone. I have politely asked Mr. Russell to refund all monies owed to everyone, but I am not holding my breathe, as he hasnt refunded many folks money. 

I have taken down the Russell NY site, and I sent an email to all members of that site, explaining what was going on, politely, and assured them that I will be fulfilling orders or refunding money, at their descretion. It is sad though, many folks bought into what Robert said, I think that it was because his father was a respected bee breeder that many knew. 
Vance, when you said that there is a sucker born every day, I must have taken up a whole months worth.


----------



## Lburou

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



NY_BLUES said:


> -snip- I will be fulfilling orders that have already been placed, or refund the at the customers discretion, and i will be concentrating on my own bees and queens.





NY_BLUES said:


> -snip- I am out a hefty sum of cash also.
> -snip- I just wish.......


Sitting here admiring your candor NY! I suspect that your openness now will pay dividends in the future. 

In a community such as you might find on any honey bee forum, we depend on each other. We share experiences and lessons every day. We depend on those close to the source of new or breaking information to share what they see and know and learn. Otherwise we do things 'the way they have always been done'. That information flow is a kind of group think, and it has flaws, as we have seen in various threads covering the multiplicity of issues in this saga. 

There are three kinds of people: 1) People who lead, 2) People who follow and 3) People who stand around wondering what has happened. You acted as a reasonable man might act. The risk seemed acceptable for you to join in harness with a long established name in the bee breeding business. A walk across the street is a calculated risk, a deadly risk for a few, but a calculated risk none the less. You (and other breeders in harness with that name) seized an opportunity and the risks associated with it. Don't beat yourself up too much about this. We all need to find a way forward. You, the cheated customers, the commercial operators who relocated their hives to MS to be stolen, and the other producers caught in the trap, have my best wishes for the future.


----------



## NY_BLUES

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Lee, 

Every post that I have ever made here, or on any other public forum has been, and always be, the truth. I am not looking for sympathy, justice, or respect, I am just looking to advise people as to what has happened, and what I am going to do about the situation that I find myself in. I produced and sold queens prior to associating with RA, and I will continue to produce and sell queens and nucs now. Many folks here raised the warning flags months ago, and I failed to heed such warnings, so my current predicament is that of my own making. Yes, I took a calculated risk when I associated myself with RA, and the risk failed to pay off. I didnt ship any hives to Russells in MS, or anywhere else, so I am not out hives, and I can make back, what I lost moneywise, with some hard work and selling a few pallets of hives. I am just saddened that many folks trusted me with their business and I allowed something like this to take place. I can only work on what I can change, and the past cant be changed, but the future can. I can only hope that the folks of the beekeeping world keep an eye open, and not allow something as terrible as this to ever get to this point again.


----------



## NY_BLUES

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

I have begun to issue refunds to all those that purchased queens from Russell Apiaries NY. All refunds will be completed within a few days. If you purchased using paypal, I will be refunding thru paypal. If you purchased using a check, I will be issuing via check. I can not produce these queens with Russell names in good faith, knowing that he scammed so many. To all here, please accept my apology for not figuring Robert out sooner. We all could have saved ourselves something.


----------



## Brandy

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Wow NY Blues, I'm really impressed and I'm sure you will more than make up any of your losses by taking this higher road. Allegany Mtn. Bee Farm has a much better ring to it than RA New York!! Way to step up!

I understand that the dust isn't even close to settling in this, but when you get a chance, and alll the ramifications are behind you, would you mind sharing if indeed there is a Robert Russell, and or a Rob Hughes so we can also understand who, what, where etc.... To the outside it would appear that it was just one individual who was involved in this who used a variety of names depending on the situation? Make that one individual with a sidekick or two managing the nectar flow program! 

Good luck, and again you're to be commended!


----------



## the doc

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

I couldn't agree more with brandy. NY_blues is a stand up, honorable guy! This is the kind of behavior we should have been seeing from Russell when he couldn't deliver all those orders. 

When you get your operation going again, let me know and i will buy some queens from you!


----------



## MichaBees

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

With all this drama, I want to write a book about the "Dr. FrankenRussellstein Madoff" monster. He made the image of a man that was successful, honorable, knowledgeable to the point lots of us believe his bull***** and invested in his ****
It is really worth a movie; even if the ticket has cost me hundreds of dollars.


----------



## Michael Palmer

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



MichaBees said:


> "Dr. FrankenRussellstein Madoff" monster.


Good one!


----------



## Specialkayme

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

I just recently saw a mug shot of an individual the Mississippi Correctional System has labeled "Robert Lee Russell" of Brandon, MS. The person that face belongs to is the one that shook my hand, and my wife's hand, and said he was "Rob Hughes." 

If you had any doubts as to the accuracy of what the Sheriff told MTINAZ, you shouldn't anymore.


----------



## Sunshine

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Oh my goodness...

http://neshobademocrat.com/main.asp?SectionID=2&SubSectionID=297&ArticleID=28303


----------



## urbanoutlaw

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

So much for what my husband now calls "Rustler Apiaries"....


----------



## heaflaw

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

He was very convincing on here. I looked forward to reading his posts because I believed I was learning from a real expert with both educational trining and real life experience. His website is very professional. I can see how people could have been misled into investing with him.


----------



## heaflaw

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Oh yeah--------------so, how are his bees?


----------



## xcugat

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

I havent been following all the drama on this...but I could not resist a google search--Someone who knows is this the face to the name??

http://bustedmississippi.com/2013/01/16/robert-lee-russell-arrested-1152013-in-jackson-county-ms/


----------



## Rader Sidetrack

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

>Someone who knows is this the face to the name??

I don't know any faces here, but the photo _xcugat _linked to is a person 53 years old. The one involved in this thread is 32 according to the Rankin County Sheriffs's arrest report in post #116.


----------



## xcugat

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

I didnt see the post about the age I guess this guy just was a coincidence


----------



## Major

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

I met rob Hughes or Robert Russell or whoever he is and that isn't him. I'm sure there are plenty of Robert Russell's though. I haven't seen the pic Special K is talking about but I would bet that it is the same man I talked to in ms as well. The place was a dump and I knew when I left there things didn't add up. I got 5 nucs from him and if they came from BSH bees I'm sorry about that too but they are all dead. They where some of the sorriest nucs I've ever seen and one superceded the queen about a week after I got them home. I complained about how subpar they were but like every one else here who was taken I was just spitting in the wind. In the end I hope the man gets what's coming to him. Good riddance.
Major


----------



## MSBEEINSPECTOR

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Just a bit of geography the 53 year old was arrested in Jackson Co. not Jackson MS. Jackson Co is 150+ miles from Rankin Co. and the Robert Russell of this soap is 32 born 8/19/1980. He is lives in Rankin Co - 212 Fannin Landing Circle.


----------



## NY_BLUES

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

MSBEEINSPECTOR
Thank you for clarifying that for us, as many of us dont know the lay of the land in MS. This is indeed a sad, sad ordeal. Many of us have been taken by a very good con man, that used his dads name to further his financial status. Somewhere he has a lot of other peoples money, and likely where none of us will ever see it again. 
As sub producers we were given the same song and dance that the public was, about tornados hitting the office, deaths of crew members, issues with cell shipments, etc... all of which I believe to be made up by Robert Russell. I believe that Robert acted alone, or possibly with the PDG honey guy on the russellapiaries.com site. We were conned just like all the folks here.


----------



## NY_BLUES

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

I have issued most of the refunds for queen orders through Russell Apiaries NY site. I will get the remaining few refunded tomorrow. I sold nucs from the site also, but the nucs were not sourced from Russell Apiaries, but from my own bees and from a friends apiary. I will have the nucs ready in April and May, just as planned originally.

I have had people want to know some information.

I started Allegany Mtn Bee Farm in 2010, prior to my association to Russell Apiaries. I produced an Italian/Carniolan hybrid, that was open mated to local stocks of bees. I will continue to raise and sell queens, but not until I settle up with those folks who ordered queens from Russell Apiaries NY, which will be tomorrow. I am not going to make people wait for a refund of their own money.


----------



## thomas

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

This is like the guy who claim he was going to be bringing bees to people his name was rory boloware remember him and he stiffed alot of folks out of their money
and never made good on his word sounds to me we all need to take care of who has to much hype about what they got until we or others had has some kind of dealing with them. I am very careful with people i get queens from and i have my favorites and they have done very well by me so lets all beware of these so-called bee breeders who carry so many so-called strains of bees like cedar glen they are fakes too are they still in business.

Thomas


----------



## SippyBees

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

AS I have said... it is rather a privilege for queen/package producers to be paid in advance for their work. That is why a bee producer should take those prepayments very seriously and be SURE he doesn't stiff anyone, which goes back to what JN Russell always said.. " If you can raise good bees you can always sell them" 
AND really... all the exaggerations, smoke and mirrors, and lies wouldn't have mattered if people had gotten their orders and the bees were good. He inherited good bees no doubt.... and if he had spent even HALF the effort to making bees as he spent making that website and the facade around himself... no one here would have complained even if he had claimed to be the king of a 3rd world country.
After all is said and done... I hope people will discuss what sold them on his bees.... because I am very interested in that. He had a VERY good thing going... and the only thing missing was his ability to fulfill orders. Any queen producers that want to increase their market share.... would be looking close at his business model. I am still amazed by what he did.... and I really want to know what each of the people here were sold on. Was it his father's reputation? The fancy website? His knowledge on the forums? The 12 exotic races of bees? What convinced the Sub's to buy in on his system? 

I dont think ANY of the sub's knew what was going on FWIW.... but I think many of us here would like to know what convinced people to get in on his sub program. He had what seems to me a PERFECT business model.... 
So I hope the discussion will eventually roll around to what convinced people to buy in to all of his cons....
Thanks


----------



## Specialkayme

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



xcugat said:


> I havent been following all the drama on this...but I could not resist a google search--Someone who knows is this the face to the name??
> 
> http://bustedmississippi.com/2013/01/16/robert-lee-russell-arrested-1152013-in-jackson-county-ms/


No. That is not him.


----------



## alblancher

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Checking their website I notice PGNhoney? posted 12 hours ago about classes he is offering. Just out of curiosity has anyone ask him to comment on what is going on? Has anyone tried to post on their site with this link to warn potential nuc and queen purchasers. I wonder what would happen to a post asking about the health of Robert, if it would get deleted or would stay up for a while. I still have hopes of receiving the nuc I ordered last year but it is looking bleak, very bleak. Amazing that there have been no posts on this site from the Russels or an employee trying to defend themselves.

The sub producers, except for NYbees have been very quiet, has anyone seen their posts elsewhere?

Can the sheriff's department shut down a website if it proves to be operated to commit fraud? It appears "Rob Hughes" is still taking orders for nucs to be picked up in Central MS and I had a private message with him as recently as Feb 11 to schedule pickup of a nuc he owes me.


----------



## papar

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

I ordered queens from him 3 years ago, had some issues with communication and the timing of the shipment. I posted my experience here and people really slayed me for not understanding how things can be for a producer. I understood that weather effects the industry but always felt there was something not right about the inherent difficulty in contacting his staff- it just didn't seem right.


----------



## camero7

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



> Checking their website I notice PGNhoney? posted 12 hours ago about classes he is offering. Just out of curiosity has anyone ask him to comment on what is going on? Has anyone tried to post on their site with this link to warn potential nuc and queen purchasers. I wonder what would happen to a post asking about the health of Robert, if it would get deleted or would stay up for a while.


You will notice that he denies selling nucs in one post, since this broke. He's in this up to his neck and looking for a way out.


----------



## AstroBee

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



SippyBees said:


> .... and I really want to know what each of the people here were sold on.


For me, it was a combination of the following things:

1) Glowing reviews from beesource members who actually received and worked with his SK queens.
2) His apparent knowledge of many things related to bees.
3) His ability to communicate in written forums.
4) The fact that he came from a long-established beekeeping family with a good reputation.
5) His connections to trusted beesource contributors.
6) And yes, his website was good too. Looking at his website was like setting a kid in a candy store.

All these things came together to sucker people in. Gratefully, I never threw down my money, but I came VERY close. 

I agree with you Sippy, that he had the potential to really make this happen, which also contributed to the likelihood of people buying into this scam.


----------



## Specialkayme

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



alblancher said:


> The sub producers, except for NYbees have been very quiet, has anyone seen their posts elsewhere?


In the interests of full disclosure, I was a member of the sub producer program. I never sold anything under the Russell name though.

From the limited discussions I've had with some of the members after this information came out, I think I may have been the only member of the sub-producer program that met him in person and can positively identify him. I wasn't aware of this until recently. I thought many other members had met him. And by him, I mean Robert Russell and/or "Rob Hughes".


----------



## Barry

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



alblancher said:


> Can the sheriff's department shut down a website if it proves to be operated to commit fraud? It appears "Rob Hughes" is still taking orders for nucs to be picked up in Central MS and I had a private message with him as recently as Feb 11 to schedule pickup of a nuc he owes me.


One would think so. It's quite apparent that fraud has/is being committed using his site. Victims can file here: http://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx


----------



## BeeTax

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

When my orders kept getting delayed last year I sent a PM to Robert or Rob telling them that I was coming on a certain date and that I was leaving with either bees or a refund. I met and spent several hours with Phillip Butts (of PDG Honey Farm) and "Rob Hughes."
I left with the number of nucs I ordered and the number of queens I ordered but not the SKC because they didn't have any.

Another member provided this link: https://www.vinelink.com/vinelink/initMap.do 

You click on the state of Mississippi, then enter the name Robert Russell, select age range 31-35, and it brings up his profile. Click on "show photo" and there is a picture of the man that introduced himself to me as Rob Hughes.


----------



## alblancher

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

I met someone in Hattiesburg to pick up a couple of nucs spring of 2011. He was in his early 30s, around 200 - 220 lbs, dark hair. I thought he identified himself as Bob Hughes. We met in Hattiesburg because Russel had out yards in the area.

In retrospect I remember hearing about how they kept their breeding colonies on islands of the MS coast. That was the reason they would be gone for such long stretches of time "helping Dr Hughes or Dr. Russel" rebuild the colonies on the island after a storm. It sounded like a great idea and would be a good way to build a pure strain, isolating them on an island, but having lived on the Gulf Coast my entire life I could never identify anything far enough off-shore to call it an isolated island. Who was I do disagree with them?

I mentioned these threads to a long time member of our local club and he basically smiled and looked around the room. Not sure what that means but I guess there are a lot of people in the club that had a great relationship with the family at one time. I explained the condition of the nucs when I picked them up, talked about how I took care of them and how they died. I complained that I must be a lousy beek, quite possible since 2011 was my first year. After listening for a minute he smiled again and said that I had bad nucs. I did the right things and strong nucs would have build up and survived.

Why did I buy from Russel Apiaries? Because when I started into beekeepping they where the only ones to have late season nucs available. They also had a great presence on the forums and a lot of people that liked their bees.

Live and learn, I am going to keep a positive but sceptical attitude about this situation. Not much else I can do. As previously stated on Feb 11 they promised delivery end of March, beg of April.

Al


----------



## heaflaw

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Maybe I missed this, but why was he arrested?


----------



## alblancher

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Wow, now I am confused. The Robert Hughes on Vinelink is African American and the person I met was Caucasian. Must have been an employee that did work the outyards in the Hattiesburg area.


----------



## Barry

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Here's a more direct link:

https://www.vinelink.com/vinelink/d...=25000&agency=66&id=38353&searchType=offender


----------



## alblancher

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Thanks Barry,

That link makes more sense but still not the person I met. Any reason not to post the pic in this thread?


----------



## Brandy

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

" I am going to keep a positive but sceptical attitude about this situation. Not much else I can do. As previously stated on Feb 11 they promised delivery end of March, beg of April."

Al, alll I can say is, I sure hope you get your nuc...... even through all this... good luck....keep us posted if you do.


----------



## BeeTax

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Do a search for Robert Russell, not Rob Hughes. The person who is Robert Russell presented himself as Rob Hughes.


----------



## VolunteerK9

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Hopefully, after a conviction, the only bees he works with from here on out will be fighting yellow jackets when hes out weedeating ditches on work release.


----------



## SideYardBees

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Specialkayme, I did meet Rob Hughes/Robert Russell in person. I traveled to MS last Fall to get my nucs. I tried to establish a pick up time for weeks, but received no response. So I just arrived at his place on Fanin Landing Circle and introduced myself. They (Rob and a helper) pulled my nucs from 10 frame hives at that site and let me take them. Not the bulging overwintered nucs that were advertised, but I got my bees. Rob was cordial and convincing, and his face is memorable to me. I met other beeks there who had traveled to get their nucs also. Yes, others have seen the face of Rob/Robert.


Specialkayme said:


> In the interests of full disclosure, I was a member of the sub producer program. I never sold anything under the Russell name though.
> 
> From the limited discussions I've had with some of the members after this information came out, I think I may have been the only member of the sub-producer program that met him in person and can positively identify him. I wasn't aware of this until recently. I thought many other members had met him. And by him, I mean Robert Russell and/or "Rob Hughes".


----------



## heaflaw

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

How did the bees do?


----------



## Specialkayme

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



SideYardBees said:


> Specialkayme, I did meet Rob Hughes/Robert Russell in person.


My reference was to the sub producers. I know other individuals had seen him in person, but I think I was the only sub producer that can recognize his face.


----------



## SideYardBees

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

I went to this site and filed. I would encourage others to file here too if you have had direct dealing with RA in the last year. I wasn't victimized too badly, but I'm certainly a first hand witness to the process having been a customer when the communication stopped, and the aliases stepped in. RR solicited and received payment from multiple states, via PayPal, for products and services he could not supply. He developed an internet facade of a multi-state enterprise. He apparently has used multiple aliases to shield himself from exposure and criticism. He has defrauded many people in several states. Sounds like an interstate fraud scheme to me. It may not be the way it started our to be, but...
Sad. The first lie is always to yourself. Thanks for hanging with this Barry and weathering the criticism.


Barry said:


> One would think so. It's quite apparent that fraud has/is being committed using his site. Victims can file here: http://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx


----------



## SideYardBees

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Not so either Special. The folks I met at RA when I picked up my nucs were also Subs.


Specialkayme said:


> My reference was to the sub producers. I know other individuals had seen him in person, but I think I was the only sub producer that can recognize his face.


----------



## AstroBee

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

SideYardBees and Specialkayme.

Is the person you met the same that can be found by using the link in post 140?


----------



## Specialkayme

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Who were they SideYard? Did they give you names? Or tell you what state they were from?



Specialkayme said:


> From the limited discussions I've had with some of the members after this information came out, I think I may have been the only member of the sub-producer program that met him in person and can positively identify him.


Maybe others had met him. I don't know. But no one is telling me they have. I'm not in complete contact with most of them right now. But those that I did speak to all told me they did not meet him.


----------



## Specialkayme

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



AstroBee said:


> Is the person you met the same that can be found buy using the link in post 140?


Yes.


----------



## Ramona

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

There was a thread a couple of weeks ago started bu someone WHO siad their hives went missing after being housed on Russell's property. Link below shows photos of those bees marked BHS (or BSH?...sorry, my tablet makes it difficult to hop between links without losing something...).

http://s1040.beta.photobucket.com/user/RussellApiaries/library/

Wonder what happened with those missing hives and the investigation? Does anyone remember the title of that thread?

Ramona


----------



## MTINAZ

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



Ramona said:


> There was a thread a couple of weeks ago started bu someone WHO siad their hives went missing after being housed on Russell's property. Link below shows photos of those bees marked BHS (or BSH?...sorry, my tablet makes it difficult to hop between links without losing something...).
> 
> http://s1040.beta.photobucket.com/user/RussellApiaries/library/
> 
> Wonder what happened with those missing hives and the investigation? Does anyone remember the title of that thread?
> 
> Ramona


That was me and yes the bees are still missing. The sheriffs office and the state ag theft departement are still looking, but I am not expecting much as it would be to easy to move the bees to new equipment. MS is so thick you would never see anything. They will only find them if someone like phillip or one of his other employees (steve, blaine, scott are the ones I have met) talk.
if you follow the links in post 140 that is the guy that introduced himself as rob hughes on both occasions that I met him.


----------



## Rader Sidetrack

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

> There was a thread a couple of weeks ago started by someone WHO siad their hives went missing after being housed on Russell's property.

Here's the thread you are referring to:
http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...-stolen-looking-for-help&highlight=BSH+stolen
Last post was on 2/20


----------



## Brandy

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

yes, I was wondering about all the nucs being made and picked up in the yard last fall if any had the BSH labels on them?? Wouldn't be too hard to make some assumptions!! Especially all the folks arriving unannounced, duh, let's try these....


----------



## alblancher

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Ramona,

I believe the pic you are talking about is the original poster off loading his bees from his truck. I understand there where no RA people in the picture


----------



## SideYardBees

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

I don't believe this is a forum for investigation of one another. Lets not go down that road like before Special.


Specialkayme said:


> Who were they SideYard? Did they give you names? Or tell you what state they were from?
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe others had met him. I don't know. But no one is telling me they have. I'm not in complete contact with most of them right now. But those that I did speak to all told me they did not meet him.


----------



## Specialkayme

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

_*Removed_


----------



## camero7

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



> I don't believe this is a forum for investigation of one another. Lets not go down that road like before Special.


Some of us who have lighter wallets because of this incestuous group would really like to know what, when, who, where, why.


----------



## NY_BLUES

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

I just wanted to let everyone here know what I know. There was a group of us that were "sub producers" for Russell Apiaries. We were from all over the US, and we were supposed to receive breeder queens from Robert Russell. Also Russell Apiaries was supposed to arrange advertising, via internet and bee magazines, for the group. There was supposed to be a woodenware supplier where we could order items from and receive a good discount on the items ordered. We were offered use of yards in MS for overwintering of colonies. Other products, such as queen rearing and shipping supplies were supposed to be sent to us to use and try. These were the major perks of the sub producers program.

Here is a list of what we got:

Some folks got a few "breeder" queens, but many orders from us went unfilled or we received them so late in the year they all died out
No woodenware supplier to received discounts from
No advertising in any bee journals or magazines
No queen supplies ever sent 
Yards that were offered up for overwintering... well MTINAZ can tell you how that went.... fortunatly I dont think that any sub producer took him up on the offer to overwinter colonies in MS

There was never any association with PDG honey and the Sub producers group. Robert and "Rob Hughes" was our contact in the group. Communication was just as poor as it was for the rest of the world. Emails and questions went unanswered, requests for breeder queens, products and services never fulfilled. In hindsight, it was a joke. I cant believe that we were suckered like that. In the beginning, his reputation was still very good, and few folks had late or missing orders. As time went on, it was pretty clear that there were more un shipped queens all the time.
On a lighter note, all Queen orders that I received from folks at Russell Apiaries NY, have been contacted and refunded in full. Hopefully this will allow me to clear the air with many folks and get back to doing what I like to do, raise queens.


----------



## hystad

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

I was also part of the "sub-producer" program but did not sell anything and paid a small portion of the $3000 but stopped after I got a funny feeling. The production bees I received from him were good and I thought it would be a good stepping stone. I could learn the business of producing queens, make some contacts, and then step out on my own. This is a blow more to my pride than my pocketbook. 

I think I understand now how he was able to sell larger amounts of queens (I don't know any exact numbers). The simple answer is I don't think he produced them himself. I have been in contact with some CA beekeepers that produced queens for him. I don't know what he did with the bees after he got them but I would guess he was reselling them at twice what he was paying for them. I'm not sure if they were using his breeders or if he was just reselling standard breeds as his brand (sunkist/moonbeam/etc.)


----------



## SideYardBees

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

50% loss so far. Obtained bees rather late in season (August). One nuc failed immediately...never found a queen...combined it with another which is surviving. I actually did receive an email from RR in July saying my nucs were ready and to arrange a pickup date. It was repeated attempts to contact after that which they ignored for weeks. In some of the emails I sent to them I stated the date that I would be arriving for pickup. It should have been no surprise. Queens which I agreed to take from a sub later, also poor performance...again late season was the probable main factor...but I just didn't want to chance waiting for next year for my orders to come. Given the experiences the last few months, I feel somewhat fortunate to have received anything at all. I will treat my survivors as if they are the magic bees which were promised by RR...who knows?


heaflaw said:


> How did the bees do?


----------



## thomas

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Well i got news thru my e-mail today from one of the sub-producers saying that he now know of the fraud and will not be selling bees but i do see this pdg honey guy still posting on roberts web page so it makes you think he might be in on this i also see that russell has not answered any posts on his forum in months. So that should tell people that if this guy does not answer his on forum then that should be a red flag. As far i am concerned he is ruined back last year a guy i know got bees from him but he got them late in the fall half died and the ones that lived well did real good i got one of them and she is still doing good but why lie if you know you could not handle the load why not just tell folks they would have under stood.I spoke to the late Mr. Russell and he was a nice guy and told me that he was sold out he did not beat around the bush but this guy that is his son use his dads name to be more then he is and now he mess is catching up to him. Ny Blues i am not blaming you you got suckered in but you need to let the other sub - producers know what is going on before they make claims they can not back up.

Thomas


----------



## Intheswamp

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Hmm, post #140...that boy sho' looks a bit narrow 'tween his eyes, don't he...










A good thing that I'm seeing is that some good folks who were at odds with each other are coming back together...that's a good thing. As for the one that caused such a problem...I think he's beginning to get his just dues...with more to come. Like most crooks he was stupid and didn't realize he couldn't get away with things forever and will probably squall the "I didn't mean to hurt nobody" song. 

Ed


----------



## Specialkayme

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



Specialkayme said:


> From the limited discussions I've had with some of the members after this information came out, I think I may have been the only member of the sub-producer program that met him in person and can positively identify him.


I've been informed that I'm not the only Sub Producer that has seen him. I just wanted to clarify. 



Intheswamp said:


> A good thing that I'm seeing is that some good folks who were at odds with each other are coming back together...that's a good thing.


At least some good has come from it. A pleasure to stand on the same side of the line again


----------



## jim lyon

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



Specialkayme said:


> At least some good has come from it. A pleasure to stand on the same side of the line again


...and the two people that died in the accident never actually existed, so that's a good thing too.......right?


----------



## Vance G

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Mr Lyon You snake! You just keep heaping the humiliation on the gullible set like me! Don't worry, I don't take it personal, I have been a trusting dolt my whole life! As soon as my expected herd of jackalopes arrive, I am thru with mail order~!


----------



## jim lyon

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Vance: actually until my last post I have treaded pretty carefully on this subject knowing that lots of people have been victimized. I know Vance was joking but there is a real dark side to this whole affair.


----------



## thenance007

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



AstroBee said:


> For me, it was a combination of the following things:
> 
> 1) Glowing reviews from beesource members who actually received and worked with his SK queens.
> 2) His apparent knowledge of many things related to bees.
> 3) His ability to communicate in written forums.
> 4) The fact that he came from a long-established beekeeping family with a good reputation.
> 5) His connections to trusted beesource contributors.
> 6) And yes, his website was good too. Looking at his website was like setting a kid in a candy store.
> 
> All these things came together to sucker people in. Gratefully, I never threw down my money, but I came VERY close.
> 
> I agree with you Sippy, that he had the potential to really make this happen, which also contributed to the likelihood of people buying into this scam.


I agree with AstroBee. I loved the photos of the Sunkists and as a hobbyist wanted beautiful bees that would be easy to distinguish. I ordered one queen in March 2012 and she arrived fairly quickly--but looking nothing like the Sunkists. RA website explained that by saying they had added back some darker genetics this year to keep the traits balanced, but that the Northern SKs were lighter. So I ordered 2 more and requested Northern SKS--never received them. Don't know what this queen was or if she is still heading up that hive because she wasn't marked and looked just like any other Italian--but the hive did survive the winter. Hardly ever saw them out vs. my Italian hive that flew regularly.


----------



## Slow Modem

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



VolunteerK9 said:


> Hopefully, after a conviction, the only bees he works with from here on out will be fighting yellow jackets when hes out weedeating ditches on work release.


Still shakin' Boss!


----------



## johng

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Wow this is crazy. I would never have guessed it went this deep. Every good scam normally has just enough truth to keep pulling people in. I think he knew what he was doing by the time he started the whole sub producer thing. It had already started to unravel here and he took the opportunity to move on to one more group of beekeepers. 

I did like reading his post, he did know how to talk the talk so to speak.


----------



## Intheswamp

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Aw Barry, and I had such great artistic aspirations...


----------



## Barry

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

I'll give you that!


----------



## guyross

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

His buddy?https://dl.dropbox.com/u/10708136/hive-lifter%20%282%29.jpg


----------



## odfrank

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Where do I get that hive dolly/lifter?


----------



## alblancher

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Send a check to Russel Apiaries for the entire cost of the dolly and then schedule a shipping date.


----------



## VolunteerK9

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



Barry said:


> You'll notice on Google that there is no Victoria Ball in Brandon. There are 3 Victoria Ball's in MS and the closest one to this address is over 100 miles away in Louisville! That would be one daily commute, wouldn't it!


He flies her in everyday on his private plane. Beeshugheshoney says in another post that she is British . Perhaps a descendant of the Queen Victoria herself. Maybe he had a bee bootlegging operation to acquire all these rare breed bees by paying off the Royal Guard.


----------



## heaflaw

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



alblancher said:


> Send a check to Russel Apiaries for the entire cost of the dolly and then schedule a shipping date.


Good one.


----------



## wildbranch2007

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



odfrank said:


> Where do I get that hive dolly/lifter?


I sent an email to the original poster of that picture asking if she knew where JN Russell purchase, date on picture was 2011?


----------



## beepro

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

I am a bit confused here trying to follow this thread. https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msi...=52.160455,-86.308594&spn=40.910523,67.587891
It seems the majority of this sub operations got taken off already. What a scam! 
So is the picture of the 32 y.o. arrested guy the real Robert Russell who's making everybody's life miserable?


----------



## Lburou

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

has anyone noticed the sound of 'Rob Hughes' compared to a NY city speaker saying a mugging phrase like 'rob yous'.....?


----------



## Major

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

That's the one beepro. I drove to MS last year and met with (Rob Hughes) or so I thought but it was actually that man Robert Russell.
Major


----------



## kenr

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

This will be the only thing that I post on this topic Yes I got sucked in with all the bells and wistles and I gave him about $250 for some just about usless Queens out of 12 only two made it through the summer and they both stunk on ice.But I thought that was just the luck of the draw now I know why.This young man if he has any feelings at all about his Dad he should know that his name and his strand of Queens is mud now and I hope he has real trouble sleeping at night but I doubt it.I just hope that the state will step in and prosecute him to the fullest extent of the law.What is so sad is that this man had potential he had some great knowledge about our craft and if he had trully applyed himself he coulda been a great force for the progress of beekeeping but instead he used his intelligence to rip people off.


----------



## Intheswamp

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Not sad at all about the RRussell's potential...I would think he had very little at becoming a beekeeper because his focus was on bilking people out of their money. Now as a potential political candidate for a major office in government....yes, he had/has tremendous potential.

His writings were almost too professional for someone of his ilk to produce. I really wonder if perhaps JN Russell may have had some papers that RRussell got his script from...if that was the case wouldnj't it be interesting to read those papers. Some of the issues of shb would have had to be improvised on. I recall reading a thread that RRussell started where he stated that he had "set aside" 1000 colonies for studying varied shb treatments...1000 colonies?...he could really spin one. He was intelligent enough to be able to see the current state of beekeeping and issues facing beekeepers and to create appealing dialogue and fantasies that was attractive and interesting to legitiment beekeepers...the fact that he was the son of an apparently well respected queen breeder only helped to win over the hesitant beeks. 

My doubts about him were made concrete when small buyers began to report that bees were not being shipped and that requested refunds were not being given. A person that had the resources to "set aside" 1000 hives for a "study" should have certainly been able to refund one or two hundred dollars that had been entrusted to him. I mean, with his gigantic commercial business, airplane, island breeding yards, etc.,..refunding a few paltry thousand to hobbyists should have been no problem. That's when I wondered if he was in the seafood business rather than the bee business...something smelled fishy.

I sympathize with those that were ripped off. It is sad that Russell Apiaries will most likely be remembered for Robert Russell's crookedness rather than JN Russells hard work.

Best wishes to all hoping that ya'll can recoup some or all of your losses. Depends on whether RRussell has any real property as I doubt there's much cash laying around. As a friend has told me on occasion...you can't get blood from a turnip but you sometimes you can get the turnip.

Ed


----------



## kincade

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



thenance007 said:


> I agree with AstroBee. I loved the photos of the Sunkists and as a hobbyist wanted (snip)


What got my money was a seemingly "reputable" producer with past happy customers on beesource that was producing treatment free carniolans. Lord only knows what i actually have in those 2 hives. I guess the search is on again.


----------



## thenance007

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

If its true that when we cross over we are met by our families and loved ones, I'd love to be the "fly on the wall" and witness Robert when he has to face JN on the other side--although there is a significant chance that they won't be going to the same place, LOL.


----------



## Arkansas Beekeeper

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Could someone summarize what is known about this scam?


----------



## Rader Sidetrack

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

> Could someone summarize what is known about this scam?

Promote a product, collect the money, don't deliver product, don't refund money. Deny, obfuscate, pose as somebody else when challenged. An old story.

:ws:​


----------



## alblancher

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Just tried to go to his website, I can't get it to load. Anyone else not able to access?

Never mind it just popped up thought I would make a copy of our private messages if something happens to the site and I need to remind him of our conversation


----------



## VolunteerK9

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



alblancher said:


> Never mind it just popped up thought I would make a copy of our private messages if something happens to the site and I need to remind him of our conversation


All the posts asking about 'Wheres our bees?' already have disappeared. I posted a copy of his booking picture on his site, but it disappeared as well.


----------



## hystad

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Did they disappear or were they flagged? I was able to read the one about picking up the soap in prison, which is hilarious.


----------



## SippyBees

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

FYI.. Was just told that there is a warrant for the arrest of Robert Lee Russell in Rankin County.... the notice in the Rankin county paper... if someone wants to verify. 
[edit]
Sip'


----------



## DPBsbees

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

From "The Neshoba Democrat", "Robert Lee Russell, 32, of 212 Fannin Landing Circle, Brandon, warrant-felony false pretense". Also on the Russell's website "The forums, Locations Near You, and Links pages have been removed temporarily. Our legal representatives are working to stop the false allegations that have been spread around. These pages will be activated again as soon as that has been completed. Thank you for your patience and support.".


----------



## the doc

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Hey Sippy was that warrant the same as the one published in the Democrat, or is it a different one?


----------



## SippyBees

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Someone told me about it... did not see it myself... was told it was issued in Rankin county and they are searching for him... that's all I know. Oh, and the person who told me said it was in the Rankin county paper... didn't say which one or when... But I have no doubt that what they were telling me was true.
Sip'


----------



## NY_BLUES

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



beepro said:


> It seems the majority of this sub operations got taken off already. What a scam!
> QUOTE]
> 
> beepro-
> most of the sub sites are down because the operators took them down and left the program. i stated that i did such a few pages back in this thread


----------



## beepro

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

It is only reasonable to!


----------



## wdcrkapry205

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

The only thing that surprises me at this point is that there is not a link to click on at his web site to donate to the Rob/Robert legal defense fund. inch:


----------



## Ziva

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

From the RA website:

~"Again, once an order is placed, the company makes many investments of resources, labor, time, and finances, so cancellations will only be considered at our full descretion [_sic_]. Filing a dispute with your credit card company or with Paypal will add fees to your charges and only hinders the ability of both parties to reach an agreement. You are responsible for all fees and damages incurred by filing such claims. It is a Federal Crime to file false claims with your financial institution in an attempt to receive a return of your payment after receiving your merchandise. These types of scams had posed a serious threat to commerce as electronic payments had become more common. The FBI, Financial Institutions, and Businesses in all industries have worked very diligently to create harsh punishments for this type of fraud and to quicken the process of charging and arresting the criminals no matter how far away they are from the company that they had swindled."~

After I ordered queens last year, (didn't arrive, no response to emails, etc.....) I had a bad feeling I was going to lose my money based on all the reports from others on Beesource. Also, I thought it was strange that RA stated on their site that it could take "45 days" from time of order until queens shipped. How convenient that 45 days is also the cut-off point when you can no longer file a dispute with PayPal. That coincidence sounded fishy to me, but I was still afraid to file a dispute because I had no idea what these extra "fees and damages" RA said I would be responsible for if I filed a dispute. On day 44 after ordering I talked to a PayPal rep and explained the situation. He told me that there was no such thing as "fees and damages" incurred by opening a dispute and that it was just a threat by RA to scare people from attempting to get a refund. I opened a dispute and got my money back, with <24 hrs to spare. 

I was at the time, and even more so now, extremely sickened by all the damage RR/"Rob Huges" has caused people by his fraud and scams. I sincerely hope the last part of his "warning/threat" in that paragraph is fully and completely applied to _HIM_....

*"It is a Federal Crime to file false claims......These types of scams had posed a serious threat to commerce as electronic payments had become more common. The FBI, Financial Institutions, and Businesses in all industries have worked very diligently to create harsh punishments for this type of fraud and to quicken the process of charging and arresting the criminals no matter how far away they are from the company that they had swindled."*


----------



## Barry

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

_Permission was granted from Matthew to post this email he sent me. Matthew is/was the Nebraska sub-producer for Russell._
*********************************

Barry,
I'm one of the good men who gave Robert Russell the benefit of the doubt and I acted in good faith with pure intent only to help people when agreeing to be a sub-producer for Robert Russell, as the bees I received from RA to date perform well when compared alongside others. I've written before that I'll not speak ill of others and I intend to do my best to maintain that effort, but I won't withold truth either if I know it. We may never know where fact and fiction part in this whole ordeal, but we're trying to find out and once we know, I'll share what truth I know openly and honestly.

We've been misled just like everyone else and gave him the benefit of the doubt at every turn, because he did get us good bees. Many of us sub-producers are out thousands. I've only ever tried to help people and these events have made me sick to my stomach literally. I'm a man of my word and I'm having a hard time fathoming the level of what may turn out to be true. Anyone who ordered bees from me is welcome to a full refund or to have me get them bees from my stocks whose identities I can verify. I'm out several thousands of dollars that likely I'll never see again, so it may take me a while to come up with the money out of my own pocket for refunds for my customers who desire them, but I will keep my word. This just makes me sick.

I'll keep [email protected] open for long enough to work out replacements or refunds with every single customer of mine. I have hard copy records of all customers who ordered through me, so these can't disappear. I always have and I always will live an honorable life and I will do right by people or die trying, so please copy and paste this anywhere you see fit. I'm 100% genuine 100% of the time and I stand by my word as well as help others when I can and everyone knows it. Us sub-producers were taken by the deception too. I may not be able to get any of my bees in Mississippi and I may not see several thousand dollars if any, but I'll be able to meet all my nuc and package orders and the NSK orders from May onward, as they are good bees regardless of any wrongdoing to all of us. The rest of the types I offered in good faith to be as they were represented to all of us, but they may or may not be what we all were led to believe, and so I will not be offended in any way if anyone chooses a full refund instead of replacements.

I'd like to reiterate that as I said above, I will keep my word to refund those who ordered through me who choose refund instead of alternate replacements, but I'll need several months' time to take care of everyone out of my own pocket. Already, I've helped several last year by sending queens or agreed to help several people with queens this year that they never received, as have several of the other sub-producers. Please forgive me and the others for being taken too. I offer my most sincere apologies. If you suspect my motives or trustworthiness in the least, then perhaps someone whom I’ve helped who has hard feeling towards RA and has voiced them publicly will offer their opinion of me, so that you know that my every act has been honorable. I will continue to do what I can to work through this ordeal to make as much good of a bad situation as is humanly possible, both for customers and for the other sub-producers, who like me lost so much.

Many people already have been in contact with me at [email protected], but feel free to send me an e-mail and I’ll try to find a way to find an acceptable solution for you. But, please give me or any of the other sub-producers time to respond to each e-mail as the volume of e-mails may make a timely response impossible.

Matthew


----------



## SideYardBees

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Has anyone out there met Matthew in person? Just curious.


----------



## SippyBees

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Man man.... Robert had a good thing goin'. All he had to do was make a few bees... heck... he could have just had his subs do most of the work for him.... and STILL he couldn't make enough. Had his expertise been in raising bees instead of marketing schemes.... everyone here would still think I was a crazy just trying to ruin a good man.....
I guess we can be anyone we want to be on the internet.... if that is what we set out to do.
I really wouldn't have cared even knowing all his BS on his website if people were getting their bees and no one was complaining.... and honestly I don't think anyone else here really cared if he were a Phd or not.... but they do care if you take their money and do not deliver..... there is a lesson for anyone.
I was just trying to help.... and still even "I" must wait for all this to play out before I get my own vindication by some. As they say... no good deed goes unpunished.... yea, I know.


----------



## Brandy

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

I'm still kind of curious about where he was getting all of his cells? His real problems didn't really hit until he mentioned that he wasn't getting the emergence with the last two batches of cells. Some are mentioning getting some nice queens. Would be interesting to know who was really supplying him with those cells. Since it's fairly clear he wasn't doing it. And I'm guessing they still want $$ for those cells and or queens they may also have been shipping to him, which makes cash flow a little difficult if 2/3 of the cells don't emerge.. Really not a bad plan if your suppliers don't mind you taking all the glory in those queens. 

And thanks Matthew for your input.


----------



## VolunteerK9

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

I can appreciate an apology with the best of them, but if the sub producers were experiencing the same friggin problems that us lowly hobbyist were trying to report,why in Gods name did you guys keep defending him and did so for so long? Time after time I was blasted or had posts flagged/removed for questioning where my money was on RA's site by at least two different subs and I wasn't the only one either. I hate that anyone ever gets ripped off but if you guys knew what we were saying was true or even had the slightest doubt it might have been true and continued to defend this creep, then you got what was coming to ya in my opinion. 

Sorry Barry, remove if necessary.


----------



## AstroBee

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



VolunteerK9 said:


> continued to defend this creep


First, I was not a sub. However, I'm quite sure that those who became subs truly believed that this guy was the "real deal". And since they believed, it was only logical that they would defend him. I suspect that none of them knew what was really going on. Personally, I believe that the subs were ripped off worse than anyone else. I do feel bad for them. Not only did this "creep" take their money, he also seriously tarnished their businesses. I think everyone was duped. Congrats K9 on being able to identify this early on, but saying that "you got what was coming to ya" is rude and simply throwing salt into still very open wounds. Perhaps you should remove your own post and not put Barry in that position.


----------



## NDnewbeek

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

I agree with Astro. I was never a sub and never really fell for the Russell sales pitch (just too much wrong with the science). However, I think that we can assume a few things:

1. The sub-producers believed in the Russell product more than anyone. So much so, that they invested their own businesses in it, thereby tying their success to Russell. Some of them invested the $3000 or more, I am sure. This is a heavy financial commitment.

2. Because they believed Russell AND invested financially, they are predisposed to being that last to accept that he is a fraud. Those who lost a smaller sum and were put back for a year are more likely to accept less evidence and conclude he is a con-man much earlier. Anyone heavily invested is going to require a LOT more evidence. 

3. Russell was incentivized to screw the sub-producers LAST. Ironically, if Russell had come up with the sub-producer scheme 6-8 months earlier and avoided all the problems with the hobby beekeepers, he would arguably be in business still. The sub-producers would be marketing "Russell queens" (and who knows what they really would have had queen-wise), any problems that hobbyists had with the queens would be laid on the sub-producers and Russell would have been insulated. Frankly, I think that the subs dodged a HUGE bullet.

4. The subs needed to sell between 100-120 Russell queens just to break even on their initial investment. As true believers in the product and businessmen, they would be inclined to wait for Russell to work out the problems. Think about it - you just put $3000 of you money into a business venture, you hear stuff that is potentially damaging to the product you are trying to sell, but you really believe in the quality of the product. Are you really going to go out there and start telling people not to buy it or are you going to give it a little time, confident that it is just a glitch that will work itself out?

I can't fault the subs for any 'timing' issues and am impressed at how those who post here are handling it now. Russell's claims always sounded too good to be true to me. Moonbeams return after dark? How do they navigate - all other honeybees use the sun. How does Russell supervise queen selection, drone production etc. at all of these colonies ostensibly all over the US? Etc. etc. My questions were never sufficiently answered.

As Po (Kung Fu Panda) would say, "There is no secret ingredient."

Mike


----------



## Beregondo

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Mike,
There may be a bit of baby in that bathwater:

Last summer I moved some nucs, and got up an hour before it started getting light and screened them in.

When I went out at dawn, there were foragers carrying pollen clustered on the screen of the well sealed Hybrid 410 nucs.

Marketing info said these were Moonbeams crossed to Alaskan bees. Whether that was true or not, they are both dark-foraging and very aggressive toward mites...I watched guard pretty agressively grooming returning workers.

Liars lie, and can't be trusted to tell the truth.
But that doesn't mean they never tell the truth.

I bought some great bees from both NY_BLUES and beetrucker74 when they were subs.

At this point could if I could trust RRussell to sell me a few NSK or Moonbeam breeders I'd jump on it.
Unfortunately right now I'm not sure that I can.

But I'd buy from either Varner's or Allegehany bees (NY_Blues & beetrucker74) again all day long and twice on Sunday.


----------



## SippyBees

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

OK.. so if all the different lines of RA were truly unique races of bees... I really wonder where he got them. I'm not saying that they AREN'T real moonbeams or whatever.... but I know they did not come from his Dad's yard. I do not doubt that Robert may have truly been doing some good things.. but tell me 100 lies and then expect me to believe one truth.... probably ain't gonna happen. But honestly... if they are truly unique he must have gotten them somewhere..... so maybe the subs can shed some light in that area? Maybe there WAS a real moonbeam.... so where did it come from?? For me... breeder or production queen is the same thing except a breeder is either TESTED over time for characteristic traits... or was Instrumentally inseminated and therfore SHOULD have the genetic traits. JN Russell told me where he got his first sunkist queen.... and it was just a production queen from another breeder. BUT.. it became HIS breeder queen. After I stopped working bees, he once told me he got a couple of queens from Glenn I think he said. One was superceded soon after he got it... but the other he was able to keep and breed from.... this would have been about 2008-09 that he told me. 
SO... does anyone else out there claim to have "moonbeams"? Tigers? Maybe they WERE really unique... but we all know that Robert didn't "develope" them..... but he maybe got them from somewhere..... so where?


----------



## jim lyon

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Sunbeams? Moonbeams? Tigers? Has anyone ever heard of these "lines" anywhere else? I think the whole picture here is dawning on some folks a bit more slowly than others.


----------



## SippyBees

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Hehehe... you think SO Jim Lyon??? You can't blame folks for hoping can you??


----------



## NY_BLUES

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Well, I cant answer to where robert got them, but I can say that the Moonbeams, Tigers, and others werent uniques species, but rather he claimed that they were hybrids selected for certain traits. The tigers were supposedly aggressive against SHB, hence the name. He claimed that Moonbeams were selected for flying ability at lower temps and in lower light conditions. I am not defending him, but rather staiting what Robert Russell claimed. Where did he get them? I dont know, he claimed that he was the developer of these lines. He claimed that it took many generations of II, and strict culling to develop a single Moonbeam breeder. 
Again I am not defending Robert, or anything that he claimed, but there are numerous breeders that have done II and extensive selecting to "develop" certain strains, such as Joe Latshaw and his Aurea and Karnica lines, or Adam Finklestein and his Allegro or Spartan lines. Heck, even JN Russell had his Sunkist queens, and certainly no one here is questioning the fact that JN Russell was genuine. These folks took available bees, did II, selected for certain traits, and then marketed the bees under a new name. Why is it hard to believe that another person, Robert in this case, could have done the same thing. 
I am not defending him, nor will I ever again, but i just want to put that out there as something that could have been a possibility.


----------



## Beregondo

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Sippy, there are an awful lot of things we don't know.. and a few we do.

We know Robert took money, didn't deliver, and didn't refund.
We know he's going on trial for felony pretense (lying).
Some of know he had some kick-***** bees.

We know that in some the first posts you made here, you said you had no bees.
We know that you showed up here shortly after your pal Ricky the convicted pedophile got out of prison.
We know that shortly after that bees were stolen from Robert's property.
We know that more recently you mentioned the bees you now have.

Speculation and assumption without proof, expressed as suggestion, that any man - even a man know to lie and be dishonest, has stolen bees is a vile and dishonorable practice.

Some, including you have done this to Robert.
It would certainly be reasonable to suspect him of it.
It would be equally reasonable to suspect you, given your statements and associations.

Yet none have done so, and please do not mistake this post for me doing so now.

The proof of what bees are is in their performance.
It doesn't matter what the bees are called.

I suggest that if there is evidence that any of the lines Russell sold don't exist, there is no less evidence that another Russell and his friend stole a lot of bees from a certain yards.

And that there is not enough evidence of either to make accusation or comment.

One shouldn't wrestle with a pig...if he does, he'll get dirty, and the pig will enjoy it.
But the dishonorable way you throw reasonable suspicion around as if "everybody knows" it to be true and proven is vile.


----------



## NDnewbeek

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

My intent was not to ignite a discussion about the legitimacy of Russell's product - only to state that I didn't think that the sub-producers colluded or did anything nefarious with respect to when they finally came forward.

Still, I don't doubt that Beregondo's bees forage early or late. I have Russian/Carn crosses that do the same. Two points need to be made:

1. Russell claimed that Moonbeams returned AFTER dark.
2. Even if true - no one has been able to tell me how they do it; and the BREEDER should be able to answer that question if it is expected to be believed.

Russell also made claims about bees drawing straighter comb, being able to defend hives from small hive beetles, being better suited to commercial pollination......shoot, I bet his bees made a mean margarita too.

Evidence was never offered indicating:

1. HOW these traits were quantified, measured and verified experimentally
2. What the controls for the experiments and crosses producing these traits were
3. The identity of the genes responsible for the traits (eg. the gene producing Cordovan traits is identified and known).
4. The mechanism by which the trait is expressed (see the 'Moonbeam' question above).

Any geneticist, ESPECIALLY one with a Ph.D. in genetics as Russell and his supporters claimed he had (no one has yet been able to tell me what University he received it from) would be able to answer these questions.

He just made the claims. When I posed questions like this, I got hammered by some (but not all). What I never got was answers. And that, more than anything, tipped me off to stay away. 

Behavior is tricky subject. Just because an organism does a 'thing', doesn't mean that it is coded for genetically. It also doesn't mean that if it is genetic, it is passed on in a linear fashion or can be reliably replicated in future generations. Russell's sales pitch for his strains came across like all he had to do was program the 'Queen producing machine' and it would spit out whatever he wanted.

I will admit that I was initially tempted by the sales pitch for the 'Moonbeams'. The inability of Russell apiaries to address even basic questions regarding genetics and experimental design told me that something wasn't right.

Mike


----------



## SippyBees

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Beregondo... This is not the first and I am sure will not be the last time you bear strong words towards me. It bothered me at first... but am gonna let it slide cuz I know you don't know what you are talking about in most of your facts... 

Some of know he had some kick-***** bees.
True statement... and I have said many times his Dad did have excellent bees... that is where Robert's bees came from... from the back yard at his Dad's house.

Speculation and assumption without expressed as suggestion that any man, even a man know to lie and be dishonest, has stolen bees is a vile and dishonorable practice.
Ummmm... if a person shows himself to be dishonest.... until further evaluation over a certain length of time... I may choose to assume many things about them... as you would also sir.

We know that in some the first posts you made here, you said you had no bees.
NOT TRUE... I said I walked away from 80 hives in about 2007-08... just left them where they sat... 3 months ago I decide I want bees again and so I go collect what equipment I had... and of 80 hives.. there were 6 still alive after 5 years.... of those 6, I split 5 of them last week of january.... drones were already flying.... so will they make it?? Won't know 'till May, cuz currently I am at my "day job" just down the road from YOU.

We know that you showed up here shortly after your pal Ricky the convicted pedophile got out of prison.
WRONG again Mr. Beregondo... Ricky got out of prison I THINK the last year I was working with JN Russell... but I never talked to him much then... was still just there cuz I was working with JN. I was HERE starting I think 2005-06?? when I was working with JN and selling my OWN queens here also. NEVER a single complaint from a queen that I sold that I am aware of. I stopped visiting this forum about 2007..... until December 2012 when I decided I wanted bees again... that is also when I saw 20 pages on this forum about Robert.... so I decided I SHOULD shed light on what I knew or suspected. I know Ricky... have nothing against him.... but he is not my "pal" as you loosely claim. I have FEW pals.... and none that raise bees.

We know that shortly after that bees were stolen from Robert's property.
Yep... that is true.... but I am no more suspect than anyone else in Hinds county my fellow beek.... and YOU might not know, but "I" KNOW that when all the dirt settles.... you will have NO DOUBTS whatsoever that I had anything to do with those bees being stolen. I have already spoken with the law.... and they are welcome to check my property ANYTIME. But if anything gets "dumped" on my place anytime soon.... just to let you know I am in New York now... and I have PLENTY of witnesses who know there was no stolen crap at MY HOUSE before I left.

We know that more recently you mentioned the bees you now have.
Yep.... explained above.... 

It would be equally reasonable to suspect you, given your statements and associations.
NOT TRUE Beregondo.... would it be equally reasonable to suspect YOU if Robert is found guilty of complicity in all of this? You certainly have made it clear whose side you are on. I am not on ANYONE's side.... and the fact that I EVER mentioned Ricky is regretful... however, personally I trust him..... that YOU don't is understandable, but do not make judgement of ME because I do.

The proof of what bees are what is in their performance.
It doesn't matter what the bees are called.
In my original post about the moonbeams..... I was being sincere. I do not think that Robert was II anything... just my opinion. I am fairly certain Robert didn't get any kind of specialized training raising bees.... and fairly certain he had a basic laymen's knowledge about bees when his Father passed.... again... just my opinion. BUT you say they have specific chracteristics... and I believe you... and sincerely asked if anyone knew where these supposed moonbeams came from. Of course I, like Jim, am skeptical.... but if anyone can show me evidence to the contrary... I would certainly be intgerested in them... as would many others here I believe. 

One shouldn't wrestle with a pig...if he does, he'll get dirty, and the pig will enjoy it.
From your posts in regards to my posting... and your PM's to me.... should I assume you are enjoying this? 

But the dishonorable way you throw reasonable suspicion around as if "everybody knows" it to be a true and proven is vile.
There have been such as you who condemn me.... and I admit... I don't like people to suggest I am a liar, however... there are many MORE people who have thanked me for the information I put out 2 months ago.... and we see where it has all lead to NOW. 
I maybe make a few insinuations.... but I think they are warranted in light of the circumstances... and yes considering I am ALSO suspect in all of this crap... REALLY makes me want to do a bit MORE insinuating. I am rather "unhappy" that my desire to try help some people understand has resulted in ME being suspect in theft... but in the end I know I will have my vindication.... You don't know that... YET... but you will.

I am not dishonorable Mr. Beregondo.... but you can think what you like.... I even considered trying to PROVE to YOU that I am not dishonorable by meeting you in person while I am up here in your neighborhood.... but, I think in light of everything would just be a big waste of both our time.... 
SO... I wish you a good beekeeping season.... now I have corrected what you have suggested.... 
Thanks again


----------



## camero7

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



> Some of know he had some kick-***** bees.


And some of us got crappy queens, and NO queens. Beregondo your defense of Russell is unbelievable.


----------



## Rader Sidetrack

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Anyone can see, by looking in the top right corner of any of _SippyBees_' posts, that he joined Beesource in *February 2004*. Or you can check his profile page to see the same info.


----------



## Lauri

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



SippyBees said:


> Have chewed my tongue until it's a bloody stubb.... am I vindicated yet????


Ditto, SippyBees, Ditto!

That's all I have to say about my lighter wallet and the *ABUSE I TOOK FROM RUSSELL SUPPORTERS*, which was worse than getting ripped off in the first place!
There are several people who owe many of us a *BIG APOLOGY*.

Thank you SpecialKayme for yours. Almost makes me believe in man kind again. Almost.

And I won't even tell you about the lengthy PM's Rob Hughs (Beehughshoney)sent me during that time. He was like my best buddy. Creeps me out to read all this! 

Is Rob Hughes and Beehugheshoney the same person -aka Robert Russell? 
I see Beehugheshoney makes no posts himself other than to respond to Russell threads ? http://www.beesource.com/forums/member.php?86049-beehugheshoney


----------



## mudlake

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

I got 5 queens from RA not what I ordered, not one survived the winter. Ordered northern bees told by RA what to order. I had to e-mail several times to get my order, lots of phone calls, stamped on the package had a Missippi post mark. I wish I had been one of the lucky ones to get GOOD BEES. This was before anyone died and there had not been any bad weather. I complained to RA and on here I was told I did not know how to take care of bees. No I just didn't know how to take care of money.. BUY LOCAL Tony


----------



## squarepeg

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

i think this thread has achieved a beesource record amount of activity in the first five days. 

pretty cool how the forum got to the bottom of it like that.

but what a shame.......


----------



## Beregondo

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Camero7, 

Whenever any person, even someone like Russell - whom, by the way I in no wise hold out as a man of good character...he himself acknowledged himself a liar… and that he accepted money for product not delivered being indisputable -- when *any* man is the subject of slurring attacks by way of insinuation concerning theft, etc. until there is some evidence to that *Additional* crime, to insinuate, or accuse him of it *is* dishonorable.

It is not Robert Russell being defended here.
It is honor, and honorable behavior, even toward someone who has behaved dishonestly and dishonorably.

In like manner Sippy, I’ve not accused you of stealing anything, but rather gave example of how easily one can believe something that may not be true.

There are innocent men –good men – whose business is harmed if moonbeam bees, for example, don’t have the traits claimed.
I have observed bees I bought (which are not regular MB, but am told were crossed w/ Alaskan bees) to fly in the dark, to fly when cold prevents my other bees, and to be aggressive toward mites.
While that doesn’t prove anything about MB, it does present evidence.

No matter whom I buy bees from, the only proof of the sellers claim that matters much is the bees performance in my yard.

I expect that before Joe C, Kale, or Jason sell any queens out of the bees they’ve got from Russell, they’ll prove them in their own yards. 
(I know Kale isn't carrying them anymore at all b/c of association w/ Russell.)

I think it’s foolish to attack a product because the breeder’s character is flawed. 

I expect to get a couple of Moonbeams (not crosses) this spring and will determine if they are as represented or not based not on imagination, or fear born of the breeder’s poor business practice, but based on their performance.

And I’ll refrain from comments born of suspicion (though granted, the suspicion is reasonable) and imagination until there is actual evidence that the lines are tainted or exaggerated.
To do otherwise isn’t just casting deserved doubt on Russell, but liable to damage the honest businessmen breeding from JN’s stock…which no one can say didn’t exist, only perhaps that he didn’t see them.

I encourage the lot of us to be circumspect and cautious not to be cheated by Russell, and not to damage these other (honest) men’s interests with speculation, but instead to wait for evidence [that the bees don't have the traits claimed] should there be any.

And if those lines of bees are fraudulent, there certainly will be.

The bees don’t lie.


----------



## SideYardBees

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

mudlake, very similar to my queen experience. My order was eventually handed off to "Matthew-Nebraska after I requested a refund late in the season. This followed many attempts to contact. I had ordered Cordovans but all Matthew could supply were "Northern Sunkist." But I agreed to take them figuring I'd better take what I could get. He stated that they would be coming from his Nebraska Operations. Strangely though, the package was postmarked from Mississippi. 50% survival so far. Maybe not too bad for bees I got so late in the season. By not being Cordovan though, I have no idea what they really are. My question now is, has anyone ever met the real Matthew?


mudlake said:


> I got 5 queens from RA not what I ordered, not one survived the winter. Ordered northern bees told by RA what to order. I had to e-mail several times to get my order, lots of phone calls, stamped on the package had a Missippi post mark.


----------



## Beregondo

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Sippy, 

If you'd like to meet and settle some differences over a cup of coffee when you're headed back south again, shoot me a PM.


----------



## Lauri

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Too easy to create an allis on forums. Don't get fooled again folks. Just sayin'


----------



## SippyBees

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Beregondo.... I believe my sentiment for Robert is very close to the majority of people here have.... maybe I am being too hard on him, but in MY mind... he has put a WHOLE new perspective to dishonest businessman. I knew some of his claims were lies but I had NO IDEA he would pretend to be different people straight to their face. 

As for hurting the other businesses.... if you owned that business would you want to know the truth or just pretend as much as you can that it did not happen? If I sold you a pug and told you it was a pit bull.... would you really want to know??

I believe the subs will be the ones who have lost the most.... and I highly doubt that anyone of them knew any different than you or I. NY Blues was the first to step up.... and I highly commend that.... though personally I understand it may take some time for all the subs to be able to repay what Robert misrepresented or stole. I would not hesitate ONE SECOND to order from ANY of the subs today if I wanted bees... AND... if they do have any of Robert's stock... be it moonbeams, tigers, or venus star chasers or WHATEVER... Robert started out with some good stock.... and I am hoping I can get a few more of Russell's sunkists... whether it is from a sub or from Ricky. Whether any of Robert's lines of bees are indeed distinguishable from just a normal Italian.... I will leave that up to the individual who has them.... but honestly... you can't blame a few of us for making fun of them. 

As for making insinuations about Robert.... well... I think he earned it... and maybe you think bad of me for doing it.... but I will live with that if I must. You are correct that in the end I think we will all see how this plays out and who is really WHO. I have ZERO doubts about anything I have said in the last 2 months. Had it just been a few white lies or exaggerations I would have laughed and not cared what he said or claimed..... but when I came back HERE and see 20 pages on this forum from so many people that got screwed THAT made me ANGRY. When I read someone saying they would never buy anything from a Russell.... that just made me more angry at Robert for what he has done to his daddy's reputation. 

Beregondo.... we may never see eye to eye about some things.... I try to respect people even when they differ from my own opinion... try to remember that with me also. I did not CAUSE all of this to happen to Robert.... he did it to himself... and it started long before my first post about him was made here. In some way I do feel sorry for him..... but mostly for his dad. I was not some distant customer... I know pretty much all of the Russell clan and their friends... EXCEPT ROBERT... and you know why that is already. 

I will say one more time here.... I would order and pay for bees from ANY of the RA subs.... I believe they were as in the dark as any of us were. I have ZERO DOUBTS about the integrity of any of the subs.... especially the ones who stepped up early to show their sincerity....


----------



## Rusty Hills Farm

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



> Is Rob Hghes and Beehugheshoney the sme person aka Robert Russell? Why do I see NYBlues now posting-who is registerd on Beesource as Beehugheshoney??? Check it out folks! What the heck??
> http://www.beesource.com/forums/memb...beehugheshoney


I don't understand this statement. beehugheshoney's profile says he's 17 years a beek from MS whereas NYBlues' profile says he's 26 and from New York. So why do you think they are the same person? NYBlues is listed as a friend of beehugheshoney, but isn't that to be expected, since he was a sub for RA? It sounds like the subs got even more royally screwed than the ordinary customers, so why are you tarring him with the same brush? Do you have any proof he's not who he says he is? Otherwise, you need to back up and cool off a bit.

JMO

Rusty (who does not have a horse in this race)


----------



## NY_BLUES

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



Lauri said:


> Posting again to be sure someone looks into this.
> 
> Is Rob Hughes and Beehugheshoney the same person aka Robert Russell?
> 
> http://www.beesource.com/forums/memb...beehugheshoney
> 
> Too easy to create an allis on forums. Don't get fooled again folks. Just sayin'


Lauri, it is quite possible that Robert was using multiple screen names on this and other sites. I believe that Barry could look at the IP addresses to see if the registered user is posting from the same internet router or modem.
As for trying to say that I am Rob Hughes or Robert, I am sorry that you are mistaken. Please PM me and ill give you my phone Number so you can call me if you would like to verify my true existance. I am sure my NY accent would be out of place for someone that has lives in Vicksburg MS, as beehugheshoney claims he does.


----------



## Lauri

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Just a few red flags for me. Beehughshoney joined Beesource 5-17-12..right about the time the first Russell thread startd when people started to squeek about not getting their orders, no response from the company, etc etc. 
He has only posted comments on the Russell posts.

Sorry NYBlues if I am out of line here, but some may feel you are guilty by association and I fear you have some big time identity proving to do.

NY-I'll PM you. I only want to see folks happy again and Beesource back on a postive note. I see after skimming through your long history of threads and posts you look totally legit. Got to check these days ya know...


----------



## SippyBees

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Lauri... go back and read NY Blues extensive posts about refunds etc... if there were unhappy customers we will be seeing it here... but as of yet, to my knowledge there is no one complaining....
I do want to be clear that I have not and never have tried to force culpability for Robert's actions on the subs.... they got screwed the worst of all of us...FWIW


----------



## Lauri

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Let's hope it goes well for all concerned. I asked that the money I felt was due me for my incomplete order be donated to the local food bank. That still has never happened.


----------



## sqkcrk

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

So, I guess Robert Russell is a fraud. Do we have to keep going on and on about it? Seems pretty well established already.


----------



## NY_BLUES

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



Lauri said:


> Just a few red flags for me. Beehughshoney joined Beesource 5-17-12..right about the time the first Russell thread startd when people started to squeek about not getting their orders, no response from the company, etc etc.
> He has only posted comments on the Russell posts.
> Sorry NYBlues if I am out of line here, but some may feel you are guilty by association and I fear you have some identity proving to do.


Lauri, I understand your reluctance to believe that I am not Robert, Rob, or anyone else, other than me. I joined Beesource in May of 2009, well before any of the Russell alias'. I have worked for Brian McDonald, known on here as BMAC, and am working for him again this spring. Please take a moment, if you wish, and contact him and ask him if I am truly who I say I am. 
I do believe that people feel that I am guilty by association. I have worked hard at trying to prove to folks that I am trustworthy. For starters, I did openly come out within a matter of minutes of finding out Robert Russell lied to everyone, and I condemned his actions. I stopped selling any bees that were associated to Russell Apiaries, and removed the Russell NY site. I have refunded all orders for queens that I had taken, and even though there were a number of folks that did not want their money back, but would rather have queens, I still sent them their money. I have fully withdrawn from the "Sub Producers program, and took a large financial hit. I cant change the past, or I would. I can only change what happens from today onward. If you dont trust me, thats fine, there are many folks that do. Actions speak louder than words, always. I realize that negative actions take longer to forget than positive ones. People may not remember anything about me other than I was associated with Robert Russell, and for that I am sorry. They may forget the public condemnation of his actions, the refunded orders, the withdrawl from the program.


----------



## cg3

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



sqkcrk said:


> So, I guess Robert Russell is a fraud. Do we have to keep going on and on about it? Seems pretty well established already.


But now we need to torture everyone else even remotely associated.


----------



## Fishman43

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Has anyone figured out where the queens were coming from that were getting sent out? I will have to check my copy of Queen Rearing Essentials tomorrow, but I am pretty sure the photos in the back showing the Miska's (name?) operation show racks of cells with the name R. Russell as the customer to receive them. I may be way off base and there are likely other R Russell folks out there keeping bees but...?


----------



## Barry

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

It saddens me that we started out working together to expose wrong doings and now are starting to fight amongst ourselves. The longer the current discussion continues, the farther it will stray from what was once helpful and focused information. Not sure at this time there is more that needs to be said/discussed in regards to the thread title.

Let's not continue discussion about various bee strains. That is off topic to this thread.


----------



## Lauri

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

I did go to NYBlues page and see he has a very long history of posts that address many different topics. Not like those few who create an allis to address their own messes. 

My Appologies NY-you look a lot better after some checking. Just being real here. Those that got burned are understandably touchy. That may include you too. You seem to be handling the problem well. Hopefull it will all work out for all concerned.


----------



## NY_BLUES

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Barry, 
Please lock the thread if you feel that we are going to far off line, but please leave it visible to act as a warning for anyone that wants or needs to read this discussion.


----------



## NY_BLUES

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



Lauri said:


> I did go to NYBlues page and see he has a very long history of posts that address many different topics. Not like those few who create an allis to address their own messes.
> 
> My Appologies NY-you look a lot better after some checking. Just being real here. Those that got burned are understandably touchy.


No need to apologize, I understand your concern, it is well warranted, given the circumstances.


----------



## sqkcrk

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



Lauri said:


> I did go to NYBlues page and see he has a very long history of posts that address many different topics. Not like those few who create an allis to address their own messes.
> 
> My Appologies NY-you look a lot better after some checking.


Lauri,
(if that's your real name, lol) Barry has exposed very few people who have established aliases and expelled them. Whereas it may be easy for some people to establish fake IDs, Barry tends to things pretty well the way I understand things.


----------



## Lauri

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



sqkcrk said:


> Lauri,
> (if that's your real name, lol)
> Ya, that's my name, but I am really a man  Just ask Acebird
> I have all the faith in the world in- AKA- 'Barry the Bloodhound'


----------



## VolunteerK9

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



sqkcrk said:


> Barry tends to things pretty well the way I understand things.


Barry was the first person to come to the defense of all of us that began voicing our problems and for that I am incredibly grateful.


----------



## bhfury

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

So just a general question and maybe one only the subs can answer, but are the subs staying with Robert or they moving away from him?opcorn:


----------



## Intheswamp

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Previous sub-producers, I believe that most, if not all of you, were ripped off by RRussell the same as the smaller guys were ripped off. In the following words I'm not passing judgement or anything but rather want to mention a couple of things pertaining to "perception" that you might want to think about. This is just my perception and I may be the only person on this planet that has seen things this way, but...here it is anyhow. 

One thing that always bugged me with the many Russell sub-producer websites that I checked out "back when" (and I checked out *several* of them) was that the only way to contact them was through a web form...I've just never liked sending money to a "web form", though. There were no email addresses offered, no physical addresses, and for the ones that I checked out I don't recall there being any owner names given. On some websites there would be pictorals of the local area or beeyards and might give a general location...but these read more like a flyer to attract tourists or something. I imagine that better contact information would have been given to me if I had placed an order...using PayPal at least some type of an email address would be given. But, for a business to not be upfront with this information caused me to wonder about the entire sub-producer thing, especially in light of the developing situation with Robert Russell.

Many of the sub-producer websites now appear to be down or either have statements distancing themselves from (Robert) Russell. Only one or two appear to have their old (pro-Russell) content still online...I think those are probably just from neglect. Some websites have reverted back to their old names and sites (good for them). Of the websites that have made changes but appear to be using the cookie-cutter web software I see only one that has good contact information to it...I applaud the Missouri producer. But, most of the "modified" websites (as of this morning) still only offer web forms for contacting them.

With the smoke and mirrors that apparently have been the norm for Robert Russell and his business it seems that businesses previously associated with them would strive to have greater transparency and distance themselves from any possible perception of having something to hide.

One other item is that If you were a sub-producer and you're still using the cookie-cutter software that came with the "franchise" be aware that visually the "web store" says RUSSELL very loudly. Those ribbons in the lower righthand corner of many of the item pictures reminds me greatly of Russell's web store. I would think that other businesses use the software with good results but if used in the bee business I think that at least in the near future it will bring up bad memories for many folks. I don't know if you really want to continue using it or not. Just thought I'd mention it.

I know I've made some jokes and jabs in the past about the situation in trying to add some levity to a somber situation, in it all I never intended to harm anyone and hope that I didn't. I wish all involved, from the single queen purchaser to the franchise owners, that in some way good will come out of this for you. My brother was a kidney transplant patient who went through over 10 years of dialysis, he was not a quitter, he was a fighter. Sometime back in the early eighties a (dentist) friend of ours came into the office one day with a rolled up poster in his hand. He proceeded to hop up on my brother's desk (which faced a wall), unroll the poster and tape it to the wall. It is a picture of a very rocky ocean shoreline, very treacherous water looking outward to the safe, open ocean. It has a caption below it. 

A couple of years later my brother received a donor kidney that worked marvelously. After that he fathered two sons, something that his doctors did not think would happen. He was successful and lived life to the fullest. Two days after Christmas in 2001 my brother died in my arms at that desk. Massive heart attack. I don't think he had any regrets even though he caught a lot of crap in his life.

That poster has yellowed some and is getting brittle...but it's still hanging on that wall. Like many businesses, my business is hurting from the bad economy and I'm not sure what the future holds for it, but if per chance I leave this office that poster comes with me.

In life we get dealt things that aren't, or don't, seem fair. Sometimes those things are self-inflicted, other times other people inflict them on us. But it is what we're dealt. We are also dealt good things. Whichever the case is, it is up to us how we continue on with our life past these things. 

As for my brother's poster it simply reads, "Obstacles are what you see when you take your eyes off the goal."

So...what are you seeing? What are your beekeeping goals? Sure, obstacles arise but do you stay focused on them or do you put your eyes back on the goals? Your choice...

Ed


----------



## BMAC

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



the doc said:


> I couldn't agree more with brandy. NY_blues is a stand up, honorable guy! This is the kind of behavior we should have been seeing from Russell when he couldn't deliver all those orders.
> 
> When you get your operation going again, let me know and i will buy some queens from you!


Yes he is a standup guy. I have worked and will work again with him.


----------



## MSBEEINSPECTOR

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Thanks Ed,
My brother now is in the hospital waiting for a liver & kidney transplant. In our family it is our faith that keeps us with our eyes on the "goal" of the high calling of Jesus. With all of these "soaps" and lifes adversities I am reminded of a seminar by a couple from Alabama with 2 statements that I repeat often. They are:

"What's in the well comes up in the bucket" and a little more definition
"People, things & situations do not make me what I am, they simply reveal who I am"

Charles H. Wilson


----------



## hystad

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Intheswamp

My website had my full name, po box, a google map showing how to get to my house, my cell phone number (which some of the people with problems called and spoke to me), a picture of myself, my wife, and my kids, and my personal email address ([email protected]). Even my screen name in every forum is my last name. I have always been an upstanding person as are the subproducers that I dealt with. I can see how some are skeptical but I would like to set the record straight on what my transparency was/is. 

Tom Hystad


----------



## hystad

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Several months ago Rob Hughes on another forum said that Robert Russell was sick (cancer or something) and asked for donations to buy him a gift. Some people pitched in and sent money to Rob Hughes to buy him a get well gift. Now that Robert Russell has admitted that he posed as Rob Hughes we all are wondering what Robert bought Robert with the donations.


----------



## Intheswamp

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

A bus ticket out of town?


----------



## Intheswamp

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Tom, listing your contact information was correct and I applaud you for it and wish you the very best. Have you put up a replacement website?

Ed


----------



## hystad

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

No, I'm not really interested right now. Maybe some day. I still need more practice. I may do what I did last year and give away cells that I make for practice. As a subproducer I was going to buy cells till I got good at grafting and cell building.


----------



## Joel

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Great Post Ed - sorely needed and appreciated by many I'm sure and thanks for such a thoughtful post - it sure got me to thinking. 
I too would think anything with that looked like, smelled like, sounded like it was now or ever connected to the Russel name, including any Russells that might do things right, would be doomed. We are a unique community of individuals and as much as at times we may bicker we certainly have an interest in protecting what for decades has been a dying breed of people and word will get where it needs to.

with all this it just seems incredible no charges appear to be pending or filed????


----------



## Brandy

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Joel, I think you're right. Unless all of us that are owed refunds get in line either at the sheriffs office or post on the other link for internet fraud, I don't think any charges are really pending other than posing as another individual. Kind of curious what the best course of action still is. MtINAZ doesn't have proof, only what he suspects, but at least he was able to blow the whistle on the operation or lack there of.. The subs will probably be standing in line also but it was a good scheme where there was just possibly more blue sky offered, vs. a set number of queens that they never got etc... Hopefully, something happens so he's not able to continue this under another alias, or in another area..


----------



## wdcrkapry205

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Check out the changes at the RA website.


----------



## Joel

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

I'm not sure how long all this is going on but in my state the statuate of limitations on a misdemeanor is 2 years, a property felony would be 5 years so the clock is ticking. If it has been 5 or 6 months under investigation with a law enforcement agency then this may likely die on the vine unless more people get involved. The diffiulty with Penal Law enforcment is there needs to be some type of " criminal intent" when you are dealing with fraud (or any criminal case for that matter) and often in these cases (Fraud by deception) it helps or is required to have some type of contract. Criminal intent does not mean you have to get Russell to admit he had criminal intent - it can have to do with the "reasonable man" deduction which is when someone does something that a reasonable man would have known would result in the negative which happened, then making it a crime. Most commonly in the public view this is seen in "criminal negligence" cases where a suspect did something such as discharing a firearm in an area where a "reasonable man" would deduce there was a danger to some other person, and someone is hurt or killed. This negligence then becomes the intent. In fraud types of prosecutions there can be a pattern if shown which shows a person carried out a pattern of behavior that a "reasonable man" would expect would lead to people not getting what they purchased, ie stock futures, or a non-exisitant product - possibly in this case AND the seller keeps the money. In my any state criminal investigation within a county, would mean the district attorney for the county is the lead law enforcement agency unless they are excused due to a conflict of interest or some other issue. Your States attorney's office also has an interest in these types of case (next after DA's office) . Usually these offices do not get wind until a case is near completion and an officer or detective brings a case in for review and many times that never happens due to a lack of evidence because enough people don't come forward. Most often when it is done the District or an Assistant District Attorney will advise an investigator to do A, B and C, then either make a summary arrest (no warrant) or nowadays usually apply for an arrest warrant. Perhaps forwarding a link to this thread to the Sherriffs Office, the DA and or the States Attorney along with an explanation and them seeing how many people have been affected, may get more focus. It's not that the case is not important as a misdemeanor but our courts are a revolving door and time is limited. The idea in an officers mind that a case is good is often disuaded as officers are looking at the level of probable cause (to make the arrest) and the DA is looking at Proof beyond a reasonable doubt because DA's hate losing in court. If the people cheated here do nothing, make no noise, other than on the blog, it may be very likely nothing will become of it and just as likely Russell will continue. If any of this was done by mail, mailed checks, bills, there may be postal violations as well although I know I've ever seen a postal enforcement outside of drug case and that was not done too well. Also in these cases the difference between a misdemeanor case ( punishment under a year and fine under $1000 in NY) and Felony Case (Punishment Over a year and in excess of $1000) in property cases has to do with the amount of the "theft" or loss so the more money the authorities know were stolen, the better chance of a Felony conviction, the more attention the case will garner. I don't know Mississppi Penal Law but if this does fall under their Penal Law and people were willing to give sworn depositions, which can be done via mail as long as they are sworn according to the requirment of Miss. Law, and the Sherriffs Dept. was able to file charges you'd see this case settled in a hurry with what most likely would be probation and restititution. These types pee their pants when there sitting in an interview room thinking about jail time. The restitution now becomes mandatory to avoid a jail sentence and such cases rarely go to trial. Just something to think about for all those hurt who wonder can they do more. You all indivicually may have lost a misdeaneor level amount of money so one or two people in such a case may make it small potatoes, together very likely together you lost a felony amount of money and that word felony changes everything, if it can be established this is a crime under Miss. Penal Law/Code. Busy street cops investigate misdemeanors in between domestic disputes, Motor Vehicle accidents, and seat belt details, Detectives who own their days investigate Felonies.


----------



## sqkcrk

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Joel, could you be more explanitory please?


----------



## Karl Parker

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Excerpt from an email I received last night from Russells-Nebraska:

"I’m contacting all my customers individually, to determine how they desire to proceed.
Recent information has come to our attention regarding Russell Apiaries and I must emphasize that some or all of it may or may not be true, but if true, then the Russell Apiaries State Sub-Producer Program will end abruptly, as none of us who agreed to be sub-producers want any part in misrepresenting anything at any level. Here in the USA, we presume innocence until proven guilty, and details may come to light in the future that exonerate some actions while condemning others or some other scenario. We're attempting to find out all we can, but we do not yet know the complete picture and may never know. Russell Apiaries did get us great bees, we just don’t know the rest of the story, and one can make assumptions and accusations until blue in the face, but the fact of the matter is that right now, we just don’t know, so I’m giving the benefit of the doubt, but taking precautions, just in case. Even though I’ve acted nobly, please accept my sincere apologies, because whether true or not, this pains my heart, no matter the outcome.
What we know: All Russell Apiaries State Sub-Producers acted in good faith and with noble intentions. All sub-producers remain honorable people, deceived in so many ways and some of us at substantial financial and operational losses, all because we gave the benefit of the doubt at every turn. We don’t yet know many details or who truly was behind the current situation, but we’re trying to find out and when we do, since we have nothing to hide, we’ll make the truth known.

I'm able to provide what was represented to all of us as the Northern Select Sunkist Non-Cordovan (NSK) line, my pre-sold 4lb packages for April (although now we may need to use another queen breeder for all packages and so we may need to push the pick-up dates to the second weekend in April), my pre-sold nucs in April/May as they overwintered at a friend’s house not far from here, and my NSK queens from May onward for 2013. I have a personal copy of all my customers' orders, so I know if a person did or didn't order through me and what they ordered. However, I planned to use my colonies in Mississippi, which I can’t confirm are there right now or the breeders of 10 different types to supply many April queen orders. Although we don’t yet know, the lineages of several strains may or may not be accurately represented to all of us, so I'm unwilling to ship any queens other than NSK until after I recover financially from this tremendous loss and can pay for genetic testing to confirm lineages as true-to-type and to revisit availability of other genetically confirmed strains next year. I’m offering all who ordered through Russell Apiaries Nebraska a choice of a refund, or to choose to have me ship the same number of Northern Select SunKist queens as replacements, as I know with certainty that I have both the NSK breeders and NSK drone mothers in a secure location and that I can mate true-to-type for Russell Apiaries’ NSK line. If you desire a refund, instead of NSK replacement queens, then please give me several months’ time to come up with the money out of my own pocket. "

I just noticed that he has added the same basic message to his website. I personally do not have much money tied up in this mess, and I feel for those that do.


----------



## Vance G

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

I just made this offering to the Rankin MS Prosecutor. I advise others defrauded to do the same. It is the least we can do for the Ole Doc. I of course gave my full contact information at the bottom, but didn't feel it neccessary here. I wouldn't want all those folks feeling sorry for me to send a lot of money! The money I lost was just more tuition in the school. 

I paid $546 to Russell Apiaries in Sept/October of 2011 for queen honeybees to be delivered May of 2012. I like hundreds of others never recieved the promised livestock in what has to be an intentional scheme to defraud.

I understand that Mr. Russell has appeared before the court for his fraudulent conduct. I would like to bear witness to the fact that Mr. Russell's behavior was not the result of poor luck or even poor business practices but an intentional theft of funds.

His descriptions of the livestock also describes new and valuable strains of honeybee genetics that indeed did not exist. 

He actively misrepresented his qualifications stating he had a PHD in Entomology he did not possess. We are talking about a confidence man of the lowest order. Would you do me the service of forwarding this to the proper authority if your office is not the correct place to place my greivance.


----------



## Brandy

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Vance, was there an email address, or did you write a letter? I've been trying to find where, what, who, to file...


----------



## MichaBees

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Vance, my old friend from the " Dr. FrankenRussellstein Cult" you can count me in at your story. I do not know if you remember, but I call Russell's bluff and ask "Rob" if he was Russell altered ego at their own forum. 
Anyways, I did file a complain too, and hope to see Robert Bernard Madoff Russell with stripes on suit soon.

Aurelio Paez DBA Michas Honey House


----------



## baldwinbees

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

i'm curious were the 'subs' in place before,during,or after his "apiary" was quarentined for foulbrood and he was selling bees?were the 'subs' just saps set up to corroberate russels claim to having 'out of state apiaries'?did the subs get gracious opportunity to walk the halls of the research foundation?oh yeah I believe the thread I started about russel surpassed this thread and most of it slammed me for telling a verifiable truth.


----------



## NY_BLUES

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Baldwinbees

Short answer is no, we were not gracing the halls of the research foundation. To my knowledge, Russell never claimed to have bees in NY, so I dont think that we were set up to back up claims of bees in multiple states. i think Russell suckered us into jumping in and bailing him out of numerous orders that he never shipped.


----------



## VolunteerK9

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



sqkcrk said:


> Joel, could you be more explanitory please?


First time I cracked a grin reading this thread. Thankye


----------



## Karl Parker

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

I received an email this evening from Paypal showing a full refund for my order from Russell's Nebraska. This particular sub producer seems to be an honest guy.


----------



## Vance G

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

I emailed it to [email protected] Mr Wilson is the county prosecutor. If you do a search for Rankin County MS you can get the address and phone number also.


Brandy said:


> Vance, was there an email address, or did you write a letter? I've been trying to find where, what, who, to file...


----------



## Vance G

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

I know you never saw your bees but did you ever get your woodenware? You really got hung out to dry my friend! Russell had several alter egos that he posted under to keep the hook set. I am way too stupid to tell that many lies myself! I could never keep it straight.


MichaBees said:


> Vance, my old friend from the " Dr. FrankenRussellstein Cult" you can count me in at your story. I do not know if you remember, but I call Russell's bluff and ask "Rob" if he was Russell altered ego at their own forum.
> Anyways, I did file a complain too, and hope to see Robert Bernard Madoff Russell with stripes on suit soon.
> 
> Aurelio Paez DBA Michas Honey House


----------



## sonnypemberton

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Recent information has come to our attention regarding Russell Apiaries and the State Producer Program. In a nutshell it appears that the Russell Apiaries State Producer Progam will come to an abrupt end. 


We do have the genetics and resources to provide the Sunkist Non-Cordovan Queens and nucs that we have sold. We will be delivering those products as advertised. So you can continue to make your plans for this season.

We now have hidden most of the pages on this website.

Fortunately, we used discretion in only offering to sell genetics we had in hand and could furnish to those wanting to buy from us. We will be furnishing the April/May Nucs to the customers who have ordered them. We will be furnishing the Sunkist Non-Cordovan queens to the customers who have ordered them. We want to re-assure those of you who have followed the Beesource threads about Robert Russell that the state producers that we have interacted with are honorable people who have been deceived (some at substantial financial and operational losses) (including yours truely). 

Russell Apiaries Alabama, LLC is a company independent of Robert Russell and affiliated with him through a "franchise agreement" in which we were to have access to various things, including their genetic lines of bees. Robert Russell is not an owner of Russell Apiaries Alabama, LLC or in any way affiliated with its operation.

If you have questions that we can answer, please send them to [email protected]. We will try to answer them as best we can.


ALL NUCS AND QUEENS WE HAVE SOLD WILL BE PROVIDED AS ADVERTISED.


----------



## sqkcrk

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Why would you keep the name?


----------



## Rusty Hills Farm

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



sqkcrk said:


> Why would you keep the name?


I'd take it a step further, Mark, and urge ALL the subs to get rid of any connotation that will remind people of Russell, from the websites that look like his, to the names that sound like his, to any phrasing that reminds people of him. These can only hurt your business and make you sound as shady as he is. With so many people having been hurt by all of this, the sooner that name is buried in the dust, the sooner people will move on. You do not need that dirt on your coattails!

JMO

Rusty


----------



## cg3

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

At least for a while, the subs are going to need to be reachable to take care of business.


----------



## Intheswamp

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

I'll echo Mark's remark...why would you keep that name? I suppose it could be that you've got money invested in the name itself, being a LLC and it's expenses. Thanks for sharing the notice from your webpage. Did you ever meet with Russell yourself? <delete>
:scratch:

Ed

*ETA: The "<delete>" above was a statement I made that Russell-Alabama had not responded to an inquiry I made with them some time ago. I apparently had used a spam-collection email account when I made the inquiry and Russel-Alabama did respond in a timely manner but I missed it, which was my fault. My apologies to Greg/Sonny for being wrong about this.*


----------



## alblancher

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

I'm really in a strange situation. 

Rob Hughes promised to fill my nuc order. The pm portion of the RA site is down so I am not able to communicate directly with him any longer. Since I live within driving distance of Jackson I guess the order was placed directly with Robert Russel/Rob Hughes so the sub producers have no responsibility to me. 

I have been careful not to be to critical of this situation because I see my only option as giving him the opportunity to complete last year's orders and all the other outstanding orders. Yea, I know, I'm a moron but I will live up to my side of the agreement and expect delivery of my bees beginning of April.

The only way I can see Robert Russel begin to get out of this mess is to live up to his obliqations by providing either healthy bees or refunding the money to people that no longer want bees.

He may never recover from this fiasco, probably doesn't have the desire to recover, probably doesn't deserve the opportunity, but he does Have the opportunity to TRY.

*Robert Russel if you read this forum* 

* Begin clearing up the mess you made by providing health bees to those of us that still want them or refund the money of those that do not. *

I'm going to find a nice quiet place where I can stick my head back in the sand

Al


----------



## Brandy

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Sorry Sonnypemberton, but you probably need to really identify yourself as some of the other subs, what you're real operation is. Who you are, where you are. Also email to [email protected] for questions vs. a phone number, address... Unfortunately you also don't mention anything about a refund, only about being able to fulfill previous orders. I would think you'd want your customers to have a choice whether they're supporting RA, you, or themselves..

Some of us have been taken to school on what we now look for in a provider. And Rusty Hills is right, anything that mentions RA or Sunkist in my mind is going into the trash.

And Alblancher, I believe that RA/RH " promised" to fill a number of queen and nuc orders?? He also "promised" to refund a number of orders.. Now, if he had done that, do you think we would all be here today?? But good luck, indeed your not in a strange situation, your in the same situation most of us are in... and when April, May, June comes let us know how it's going.


----------



## alblancher

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Brandy,

It appears the scab has been pulled off the wound and there is no more hiding. To me the question is Russel's next step. I am trying to determine if having a private message dated as recently as Feb 4 where I agree to a future pick up date of first week of April limits my options. I guess I can forward the pm's to the investigator's office for their records but as far as my account is concerned he has not yet broken the agreement and regardless of what I think or feel that fact remains.

That was the point of the previous message. With everything that has happend he can still settle his outstanding obligations and begin to clean this up. 

There are so many ways that nobody gets anything. Satisfy your obligations to me and any other valid obligations to others and the matter is closed as far as I am concerned. I think anyone that would rather have a prosecution instead of a solution is making an expensive mistake. The possibility of prosecution may make a solution palatable to Robert Russel.

Like I said before the scab if off the wound. Everyone knows what is going on, we are beginning to get the facts and the only thing we don't know is what will happen next.


----------



## Brandy

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Good luck alblancher, I really hope you get your nucs. If RA had your attitude there wouldn't be any problems.


----------



## alblancher

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

HeHe


I'll probably get :ws: like everyone else but at least I'm smiling as it happens


----------



## Vance G

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Never thought I would use this line. AL! DENIAL is not just a river in Africa! I remember waiting for unshipped queens, not wanting to upset the great and powerful Oz so maybe I would get my bees! It just ain't gonna work out Al. Sorry


----------



## RZRBCK BEE

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

So in everyone's mind, is PDG Honey guilty of anything? Was he in on this?


----------



## alblancher

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

As of 2/26/13 RA has not defaulted on my order. Last summer after missing the original delivery date I agreed to have him overwinter my nuc. The most recent pms indicate his intention to live up to the beginning of April delivery date. 

He did miss the original delivery dates but at no time did I demand my money back or ask him to satisfy the original agreement by demanding immediate delivery. If he delivers the bees or refunds my money by 4/15/13 he has lived up to our agreement. That's just the way I see my situation from a legal standpoint. Been in business 30 years and see this kind of stuff occassionally. 

By using Rob Hughes as my contact and representing Rob Hughes as an agent for RA he may have shown that from the beginning he intended to commit fraud. There is a difference between telling a pesky salesperson to ask for a fictional Jack White, who never seems to be available whenever he visits and having the same fictional Jack White sign a contract with no intent to fullfill the agreement. 

Not only did I more than likely get sold down the river, I tied my hands before getting in the boat.


----------



## Barry

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



alblancher said:


> If he delivers the bees or refunds my money by 4/15/13 he has lived up to our agreement.


With all that has come out now, do you have any concern about the bees, should you actually get them? Are they the bees as advertised? Are you sure they will be bees *he* breed and raised from the start? Do you think they could be someone else's stock?


----------



## Major

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

I'm not trying to get off topic, but I just read Barry's last post and I had to add this. I'm pretty sure I've said this here or another Russell thread but I ordered 5 nucs last year and was one of the few that actually got them and yeah I met the elusive Robert Russell incognito. When I got the bees back to Tennessee and inspected them well here's what I noticed, frames of all different kinds( plastic, wood some old some newer) and an enormous amount of small hive beetles and mites. I have shb here but I deal with them or I should say the bees deal with them, but there's a point when they overtake bees and those nucs where very close to that point from the start. I personally believe that I brought more trouble to my apiary than I would imagined. All 5 nucs are dead and I had them in an isolated yard with 4 more strong colonies. All the hives I had at this yard are dead maybe they would have died anyway I don't know for sure but after inspecting the dead outs here's what I found tons of dead shb dead mites all over the slatted racks and frames and leftover food. So I don't think they starved. My point being in all this rambling I'm with Barry here I'm not sure you actually want those bees, and if you do get them I would get a local inspector or your state apiary inspector to look them over. Just my 2 cents and they are free here.
Major


----------



## jb63

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

I got a refund from the Wash. state R.A. this week end. They are disconnecting with R.A. and were sorry for my two year wait.Good luck Vance don't let up.


----------



## alblancher

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Absolutely 

I have concerns. I even have a history with RA. The two nukes I took delivery of in 2011 failed in 2012. As a brand new beek there is no way I was an authority and could prove that they were bad bees. Now I believe they were bad bees, everyone I spoke to the last couple of months says I did everything right caring for the bees, my mentor recently said "you got bad bees". As a matter of fact one nuc was full of honey with very little brood. I saw a very skinny "hipless" queen so I doubt she was even mated, much the less laying when I took delivery. I know that now, I've learned a lot in 24 months. 

I ordered a replacement nuc in April, never delivered, right after the first nuc failed in March. The second hive failed by July. I ordered from RA because they had nucs available and I knew no better, did not have the sources and contacts I now have.

With everything that has happened recently I do not really expect to get bees, much less good bees. I just know that at this point even a good ole boy attorney that graduated last in his law school class could rip my claim apart. April 15 I will be in a much different position. If I receive the nuc I can have it inspected by experts that may or may not be able to tell me they are Sunkist bees. How does someone not considered an expert offer an opinion about the lineage of a queen? I have a very small dog in this fight so I have to handle this a bit differently then those of you with more experience and more invested in this fraud. 

I have ordered a couple of nucs of Russians from the local club so I'll have the opportunity to kill some Russians in April.


----------



## Intheswamp

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



alblancher said:


> <snip> I just know that at this point even a good ole boy attorney that graduated last in his law school class could rip my claim apart.


Al, I think you have as good of a chance at recouping your losses as anyone else has...whether you wait or not. Probably be better if you don't wait. I kind of doubt that RRussell has the available cash to refund those he owes nor the bees to pay them with. The hope has to be that he has some real property that can be liquidated and disbursed to the people he owes. To receive some of that money you would have to be found to be a victim of his or to be on the winning side of a civil lawsuit. It's one of those "you must be present to win" scenarios, I would think...you gotta have your name in the hat.



alblancher said:


> I have ordered a couple of nucs of Russians from the local club so I'll have the opportunity to kill some Russians in April.


You know that Henry Kissinger worked hard to keep exactly that from happening. 

Ed


----------



## Joel

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



Vance G said:


> I just made this offering to the Rankin MS Prosecutor. I advise others defrauded to do the same. It is the least we can do for the Ole Doc. I of course gave my full contact information at the bottom, but didn't feel it neccessary here. I wouldn't want all those folks feeling sorry for me to send a lot of money! The money I lost was just more tuition in the school.
> 
> I paid $546 to Russell Apiaries in Sept/October of 2011 for queen honeybees to be delivered May of 2012. I like hundreds of others never recieved the promised livestock in what has to be an intentional scheme to defraud.
> 
> I understand that Mr. Russell has appeared before the court for his fraudulent conduct. I would like to bear witness to the fact that Mr. Russell's behavior was not the result of poor luck or even poor business practices but an intentional theft of funds.
> 
> His descriptions of the livestock also describes new and valuable strains of honeybee genetics that indeed did not exist.
> 
> He actively misrepresented his qualifications stating he had a PHD in Entomology he did not possess. We are talking about a confidence man of the lowest order. Would you do me the service of forwarding this to the proper authority if your office is not the correct place to place my greivance.


This is a good start or addition to what is already going on - now the squeaky wheels get the grease so time to pile on. Here's the contact information for Rankin County Prosecutors office -http://www.rankincounty.org/COUNTYPROSECUTOR/ 
Unlike New York I find They only prosecute misdemeanor offenses but if this has risen above that level the prosecutor will know where to send you next. I would take the time to make a call AND send a letter. E-mails are quick but have to be printed out and there is nothing like a hanks signed letter to add that personal touch. A phone call (requesting a call back if the prosecutor is out) followed by a letter will have good impact - says "I'm serious". I'll see if I can find what it takes for statement to be sworn in MS. and I encourage everyone here cheated to forward a letter and a statement. I would urge you to Keep it brief and factual but comprehensive. Use your collective power to impact this and maybe get your money back.

Could someone closer to Mark (sqkcrk) than me please drop an ex-lax in his coco and send me the after pictures!
Mark - April and Hemmingway are not vary far off!


----------



## sqkcrk

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Thanks Joel. I'll meet you there then, gladly. I have a hard time reading Posts w/out paragraphs. Maybe I should get a ruler. lol


----------



## heaflaw

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



Intheswamp said:


> .
> 
> 
> You know that Henry Kissinger worked hard to keep exactly that from happening.
> 
> Ed


Good one.


----------



## mathesonequip

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

in the long run one of the sadist parts of this mess is that the lifetime work of RR''s father namely the sunkist line may be lost. i sure hope that the sub-breeders, who are now runing for cover do not throw away the old russel legacy and genetics... this whole thing really is a mess for everyone in the industry and an insult to show for a lifetime of hard work..... greed is filthy sin


----------



## MTINAZ

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



RZRBCK BEE said:


> So in everyone's mind, is PDG Honey guilty of anything? Was he in on this?


My personal feeling is yes there is a good chance he(phillip butts) is. I have no proof, but he was there the day we installed the nucs in my equipment, and said he would extract the honey for us. when end of summer comes he wont answer his phone anymore and over the summer he offered lots of nucs for sale. At the bare minimum he knew what was going on.


----------



## Intheswamp

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



mathesonequip said:


> in the long run one of the *sadist* parts of this mess is that the lifetime work of RR''s father namely the sunkist line may be lost. i sure hope that the sub-breeders, who are now runing for cover do not throw away the old russel legacy and genetics... this whole thing really is a mess for everyone in the industry and an insult to show for a lifetime of hard work..... greed is filthy sin


I can believe that RRussell had a sadist streak in him.... 

Seriously though, I agree with you on the greed part, matheson...probably caused as much human suffering as any one thing could.

Ed


----------



## Intheswamp

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



RZRBCK BEE said:


> So in everyone's mind, is PDG Honey guilty of anything? Was he in on this?


Here's a short video, I can't really attest to the who, what, where, when, and how of it but I'm pretty sure some folks here might recognize some hives... http://youtu.be/VCEQCdYWwUI Use your on judgement as to what this might mean.

Ed


----------



## Luterra

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

PDG honey has a very blank website. Not sure if that is a recent change or if they just haven't gotten around to developing it yet.


----------



## SippyBees

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

MTINAZ.... take a look at this link
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...00859.100001843175455&type=1&relevant_count=1


----------



## Luterra

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

I'm not sure how recently this was put up on the RA website, but it would have raised some red flags for me:



> The main operation of Russell Apiaries will not be taking in any new orders for production queens from public buyers so that we may return our focus to our supplying our commercial customers and our research and developement. However, we have established satalite operations across the country. These operations are specifically dedicated to provide the public with Russell Apiaries genetics produced under the same scrutiny and quality standards that have been the benchmark for Russell Apiaries. Maticulous planning and direction has gone into developing these operations in strategic locations to implement a Local Adaptation Program that will continue to produce acclimated genetics for each region that they serve. This allows the customers to not only have a Local supplier to communicate with directly, but also provides them with genetics that are specifically adapted for their own climates, improving survival, production, and the ability to overcome the threats of pests and diseases that have threatened honey bees and beekeeping more and more over the past several decades.


Developement? Satalite? Maticulous? Not that spelling is a prerequisite for being a good beekeeper, but I tend not to send money to companies that fail to proofread their online presence.


----------



## NY_BLUES

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

I believe that video was shot within the last week by a guy that was going to be a sub for Russell. After this info came out, he headed to Brandon to get his hives and take them home, if i remember correctly.


----------



## MTINAZ

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



SippyBees said:


> MTINAZ.... take a look at this link
> http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...00859.100001843175455&type=1&relevant_count=1



Most of the pics of my hives in the summer are at the learned yard. Cant tell who the guy feeding them is. Those are the same pics robert russell gave the sheriffs office to help identify my hives.


----------



## Luterra

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

This is starting to make sense to me now. JN Russell established a good name, so was able to make good money selling queens. Robert inherited the business and wanted to keep making money from the Russell name, but he lacked the experience/commitment/desire to manage a top-notch queen-rearing program. 

The scheme could even have worked for him (for a while at least) if he had refrained from taking people's money without delivering. The sub program allowed him to basically sell the Russell name only, providing a few breeder queens and taking a commission while the subproducers did all the work. Of course, for this to work, Robert Russell needs to be known as an expert queen breeder. Thus the need for the alias. "Rob Hughes" is the lowly manager, the person encountered when folks visit the Russell farm to pick up queens and nucs. The ever busy Dr. Russell is always away in California or on offshore islands working on queen selection and research. Dr. Russell needs to have some public presence of course, so a forum alias is created using plagiarized text in academic discussions, showing to the beekeeping world that this Russell really knows his salt.


----------



## tedlemay

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Question is... with all the deception from Robert,Rob,Doc,Dr. or whoever he is, how will we ever know if any of us have the "true" JN Russell stock? It is truly a shame that a man can spend his whole life developing something only to have his children destroy it in just a couple of years!


mathesonequip said:


> in the long run one of the sadist parts of this mess is that the lifetime work of RR''s father namely the sunkist line may be lost. i sure hope that the sub-breeders, who are now runing for cover do not throw away the old russel legacy and genetics... this whole thing really is a mess for everyone in the industry and an insult to show for a lifetime of hard work..... greed is filthy sin


----------



## SippyBees

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Well... I personally dont know where the EXACT queens JN was breeding from last are.... but I DO know where to get his "stock"..... LEGITIMATELY..... but I SURE AS HECK WON'T MENTION IT HERE....  But honestly... if all of this is dealt with soon... I do believe there are some sunkist queens still to be had if you like a very prolific Italian bee. 
PLEASE do not crucify me for saying it here.... but research my posts and you will never have seen me say Robert had bad bees to begin with.


----------



## JRGN

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



Intheswamp said:


> Here's a short video, I can't really attest to the who, what, where, when, and how of it but I'm pretty sure some folks here might recognize some hives... http://youtu.be/VCEQCdYWwUI Use your on judgement as to what this might mean.
> 
> Ed


Yep, 2 of those hives are mine the green and cedar colored one.


----------



## Ziva

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



SippyBees said:


> MTINAZ.... take a look at this link
> http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...00859.100001843175455&type=1&relevant_count=1


Why does it say he lives in France? :scratch:
http://www.facebook.com/russellapiaries


----------



## Barry

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



Ziva said:


> http://www.facebook.com/russellapiaries


Pages/sites are closing faster than you can say "Rob whose?"


----------



## heaflaw

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



mathesonequip said:


> I sure hope that the sub-breeders, who are now runing for cover do not throw away the old russel legacy and genetics...


Agreed


----------



## SippyBees

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Wow... Barry, you are famous... Robert too... talking about us all the way over in England.... 
http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=22389


----------



## SippyBees

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Haha... Google is GREAT!! I found a link that Robert lists as " Russian scientist with translator".... INCREDIBLE... Thats my ex-wife that grafted for JN, and a visiting Ukranian beekeeper that cam over here on a government funded exchange type program through Jackson state university.... he was the dude that convinced me to try bee stings for my arthritis.... hehehe. He was just a small beek in Ukraine that DID migrate with the weather there.... all his bees on a trailer moved from area to area....Everyone take a look..


----------



## jim lyon

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

World renowned bee breeder and PHD? Thats even funnier than calling Barry's site one of the most censored on the planet.:lpf:


----------



## SippyBees

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

http://s1040.beta.photobucket.com/user/RussellApiaries/media/cell2081.jpg.html?sort=3&o=308

My ex with the Ukrainian beek ... looks like the pecan orchard down the road from me.... where was "I"?? AT my DAY JOB


----------



## Intheswamp

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



Luterra said:


> PDG honey has a very blank website. Not sure if that is a recent change or if they just haven't gotten around to developing it yet.


I believe it's been that way at least for a couple of days now. Ed


----------



## Rader Sidetrack

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



SippyBees said:


> Wow... Barry, you are famous...
> http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=22389


Barry, I see on that site that when one member makes a joke, and the other member does not get the joke, that the _Moderator _steps in to *explain *the joke.  (see post #10 at the link) When will you be implementing that policy at Beesource?
:lookout:


----------



## kincade

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Im so embarrassed that he pulled the wool over my eyes. Im usually pretty good about spotting a scammer, but RR got me on this one. Fell for it hook line and sinker. Anyone want 2 of russells famous treatment free mite resistant carniolan queens? Id love to know where they actually came from or what their lineage is. Sigh.


----------



## jb63

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

I removed my photos from his site today,I don't care to be associated with him any more.


----------



## Barry

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

According to the link provided in this post, Robert is now in custody.

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?278390-Robert-Russell-is-a-fraud&p=899069#post899069

Joel gave good advice here:
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?278390-Robert-Russell-is-a-fraud&p=900959#post900959

All of us who have been wronged by Robert should contact the AG and at least file a complaint. I will be.


----------



## alblancher

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

I left a message with my cell number and email for the investigator Randy Chatham 601 825-1480 Tuesday afternoon. Not sure if this is the way to go but if he gets back to me I will let you know.


----------



## beemandan

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



Barry said:


> Joel gave good advice here:


Are you referring to this Barry?!




Joel said:


> Could someone closer to Mark (sqkcrk) than me please drop an ex-lax in his coco and send me the after pictures!


Gettin’ a bit kinky for my blood.


----------



## RZRBCK BEE

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

I am still trying to understand whether or not PDG Honey was involved or not? Do any of you know or at least have opinions?


----------



## the doc

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



RZRBCK BEE said:


> I am still trying to understand whether or not PDG Honey was involved or not? Do any of you know or at least have opinions?


I dont know the answer to this although if you had bees down there as part of his "honey farm" then I would try and retrieve them ASAP!!


----------



## RZRBCK BEE

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

I don't but I did buy a couple of queens off of him last year and I did receive what I asked for when I couldn't get any communication from Russell's. Got what I paid for from Russell also. Guess I got real lucky on that. Sad situation this has came to is all I can say.


----------



## MTINAZ

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



RZRBCK BEE said:


> I am still trying to understand whether or not PDG Honey was involved or not? Do any of you know or at least have opinions?


See post #288


----------



## RZRBCK BEE

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Thanks MTINAZ, I missed where you had responded. I appreciate your insight.


----------



## MTINAZ

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

If anyone paid him money and did not receive there items I highly recommend that you call the Rankin county sheriffs office. Robert Russell is in custody but on a warrant in a different county, for what appears to be taking someones $ and not giving them queens. I think this is the felony false pretense the link to the court docket was about. It sounds like Rankin county may also be wiling to file similar charges.


----------



## alblancher

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Can we just post all the contacts and phone numbers we have to the appropriate authorities. Very confusing with maybe half a dozen different offices involved. If I hear back from Mr. Chatham I'll ask him who we should be talking to.


----------



## camero7

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



> I am still trying to understand whether or not PDG Honey was involved or not? Do any of you know or at least have opinions?


He has to be in this up to his ears. When I questioned him on the RA forum about his nuc sales he denied he ever sold any. Was quite defensive and has now disappeared. If I were missing hives I'd be looking at him too. It's a den of thieves there as far as I can tell. Hard to separate the actors from the players.


----------



## Vance G

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

This is the reply from the Fannin county Prosecutor on my letter about Russell. Not his Job!

I would suggest that due to the nature of your recent correspondence, that you contact the Mississippi Department of Agriculture and ask to speak to someone in the criminal/investigative division.
Sent from my iPhone


----------



## MTINAZ

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

If anyone has purchased and recieved bees from pdg honey please send a message to MSinspector now.


----------



## Intheswamp

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

This could turn into the latest conspiracy scandal!!!!! We've had Watergate, Monicagate, Camillagate, and now....​ *
HONEYGATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*​
Hmm, I wonder who would be in the better position to make a deal if there is a "conspiracy"? A guy in jail who has a lot of reasons to spill his guts and bring down the whole ship, crew and all; or a guy on the outside who may be considered a smaller fish that could work a pretty good deal so they can get the big fish out of the pool?

The plot thickens.....


----------



## sqkcrk

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



Barry said:


> According to the link provided in this post, Robert is now in custody.
> 
> http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?278390-Robert-Russell-is-a-fraud&p=899069#post899069
> 
> Joel gave good advice here:
> http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?278390-Robert-Russell-is-a-fraud&p=900959#post900959
> 
> All of us who have been wronged by Robert should contact the AG and at least file a complaint. I will be.


Barry, "Robert"? Really? You know Robert Russell so well you refer to him by his first name? Seems kind of familiar, don't you think?


----------



## Rader Sidetrack

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

> Seems kind of familiar, don't you think?

Are you confused as to which person the "Robert" refers to? :scratch: There's over 325 posts in this thread, including links to a photo and arrest reports!

Perhaps you think it would be more appropriate if he was referred to as "_Mister_" Russell? :lookout:


----------



## tedlemay

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Ain't much I haven't called him!! lol


----------



## Specialkayme

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



Barry said:


> According to the link provided in this post, Robert is now in custody.
> 
> http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?278390-Robert-Russell-is-a-fraud&p=899069#post899069


It's a different photo than was up previously. It appears the newer photo is of a younger Robert.


----------



## alblancher

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

I hope we all continue to retain at least a modicum of responsibility and seriousness about this issue. 

We have someone that many of us have done business with possibly going to jail and who's family faces some serious challenges

We have beekeepers that have been defrauded of their hard earned money, we have sub-producers that lost their investment and whose reputations have been damaged by their association with RA.

We have the father that worked hard his entire life to build a solid reputation only to have it dragged through the mud by his son. 

We have the original poster that lost over 200 hives.

I ask that we all remember to be respectful of how serious this situation is and how many innocent people have been and will be affected.

Al


----------



## sqkcrk

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



Rader Sidetrack said:


> > Seems kind of familiar, don't you think?
> 
> Are you confused as to which person the "Robert" refers to? :scratch: There's over 325 posts in this thread, including links to a photo and arrest reports!
> 
> Perhaps you think it would be more appropriate if he was referred to as "_Mister_" Russell? :lookout:


Well, yeah. Is Barry refering to Robert Russel, the subject of this Thread? The alledged "fraud"? If so, I would think it prudent not to call him by his first name because that implies that the person refering to him knows him on a first name basis. Like Barry knows me. Barry and I have actually met and he has trusted me w/ a sizeable chunk of money in check form and a valuable item which I delivered to him. That's how Barry Birkey and Mark Berninghausen know each other other than simply via beesoiurce communications.

Whereas calling Robert Russell "Miister Russell" could be misconstrued as being respectful the comments precewding and following would clear that up. Calling him Dr. Russell has been established somewhat as grossly inaccurate, so I would not suggest doing that except in a mocking manner, which is against the rules on beesource.

I'm sorry if I have kicked a hornets nest here. Just sayin'. Robert Russell or Mr. Russell or "That scoundrel ..."


----------



## sqkcrk

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



alblancher said:


> I hope we all continue to retain at least a modicum of responsibility and seriousness about this issue.
> 
> We have someone that many of us have done business with possibly going to jail and who's family faces some serious challenges
> 
> We have beekeepers that have been defrauded of their hard earned money, we have sub-producers that lost their investment and whose reputations have been damaged by their association with RA.
> 
> We have the father that worked hard his entire life to build a solid reputation only to have it dragged through the mud by his son.
> 
> We have the original poster that lost over 200 hives.
> 
> I ask that we all remember to be respectful of how serious this situation is and how many innocent people have been and will be affected.
> 
> Al


Any possible way of knowing how many and how much? Just curious. Mr. Russell sent me three queens for free, so I haven't lost any money on him. Maybe he hoped I would order queens from him. All three were accepted, but none made much honey. I don't really know if they are still alive or not. Maybe they are somewhere out there amongst all the others.


----------



## camero7

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



sqkcrk said:


> Any possible way of knowing how many and how much? Just curious. Mr. Russell sent me three queens for free, so I haven't lost any money on him. Maybe he hoped I would order queens from him. All three were accepted, but none made much honey. I don't really know if they are still alive or not. Maybe they are somewhere out there amongst all the others.


Bet he was hoping they would be good and he could sucker you into being a sub.


----------



## Solomon Parker

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

A while back, I signed up with whatshisname's website, just to see what was going on over there. Never posted, no info on my profile. Now I'm getting spam.

lilianlove sent you a message on Russell Apiaries 

-------------------- 
Subject: HELLO 



[email protected]

Hello

I saw your profile today and it was so good to me.you know that i am interested to be your friend first.please i will like you to contact me direct to my e-mail address, ([email protected])i will give you a full introduction of my self with my pictures OK. i will be waiting for your mail to my e-mail adsdress([email protected]) as you know

there is no age,race,color n religion bar when it comes to know each other,

cares Comfort.



-------------------- 

To reply to this message, follow the link below:

Fourth total, third one from this particular sender. I never trust anyone with a Yahoo address anyway.


----------



## camero7

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

His forum is still there, just hidden
http://russellapiaries.webs.com/apps/forums/


----------



## Intheswamp

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

I think all forums get hit all along with stuff like that, Parker.

Ed


----------



## Solomon Parker

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

I've never gotten spammed in ten years on Beesource.


----------



## Specialkayme

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Does that make beesource the exception or the rule?


----------



## Jayoung21

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

I got the same message today. Never have gotten anything like that from Beesource or the other beekeeping forum. I wonder if he is selling email addresses?


----------



## Solomon Parker

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

No, the messages are coming through the PM network, but obviously unmoderated.


----------



## Solomon Parker

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



Specialkayme said:


> Does that make beesource the exception or the rule?


I would like to think it is largely because of the efforts of our dear Barry and the preponderance of responsible users regulating the spammers. But that's just me, I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. Barry has no compunctions about dealing with bad actors.


----------



## Intheswamp

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



sqkcrk said:


> <snip> Mr. Russell sent me three queens for free, so I haven't lost any money on him. Maybe he hoped I would order queens from him. <snip>


Interesting. I recall a woman from Texas that had ordered wooden ware from the infamous house of cards in Mississippi. Seems that Russell was delayed in getting the wooden ware out to her (surprise!) so she cancelled the order and ordered elsewhere or simply "made do". She posted that when she got the refund that Russell told her that they would still ship the wooden ware to her when it came in, which she said they did. It wasn't really clear, but I feel pretty confident that Russell shipped it to her at no charge. If they did ship it to her at n/c I wonder who actually paid for that order? :scratch:

Ed


----------



## Lburou

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



jayoung21 said:


> -snip- I wonder if he is selling email addresses?





Solomon Parker said:


> No, the messages are coming through the PM network, but obviously unmoderated.


It is likely an attack on the web site where the person registers then turns the bot loose (sometimes a week or two or months later). I had to block whole regions of the globe to get it to stop while admin on a website. I'm sure Barry does something similar.


----------



## RZRBCK BEE

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



MTINAZ said:


> If anyone has purchased and recieved bees from pdg honey please send a message to MSinspector now.


Message sent


----------



## SippyBees

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Some folks asked about a hive cart in a previous pic..... 
It was sold by "Casters of Jackson" 315 hwy 80, jackson MS
http://www.theonlinecatalog.com/castersofjackson/store/buynow.asp?ITEM_ID=5268&ITEM_PART_ID=31435

AND... if you check the web.... someone bonded out today


----------



## RiodeLobo

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Apperntly I looked lonely, because I got two today as well. I am not holding out much hope for my queens delayed to this spring. To bad, I liked what I got in 2011.


----------



## Barry

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Let's slow this train down a bit.


----------



## Vance G

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

I just got an email from Russells wanting to verify my information to send me a refund.


----------



## camero7

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Me too, in a return email they promise a check in 7 business days.


----------



## Barry

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Cam, Just today you received the email?


----------



## camero7

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

correct


----------



## Intheswamp

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Man, I hope this works out for everybody involved, including RRussell. He's a young fellow to have dug such a deep hole and there's a lot of good folks who need to get this matter settled so they can let go of some pent up anger that ain't good for them.

I've made comments both jokingly and seriously about this situation but from here on out I'm going to refrain from commenting on this situation *unless* it is something positive for all concerned.

I'm back to beekeeping. 

My prayers and best wishes to all,...
Ed


----------



## RiodeLobo

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

I got the same Email today. We will see in a week if a check shows up.


----------



## Vance G

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Someone loves him to bankroll him to make the refunds he needs to make. It is a real shame and I don't wish him ill, I just don't want to do business with him.


----------



## VolunteerK9

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



RiodeLobo said:


> We will see in a week if a check shows up.


We'll see if it clears


----------



## alblancher

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

I also received notice of refund. Hope everyone get treated fairly.


----------



## cg3

A day or two in the pokey is one of life's great motivators.


----------



## RiodeLobo

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



VolunteerK9 said:


> We'll see if it clears


:lpf:


----------



## alblancher

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Is there any word about Mtinez and others getting their "stolen" hives back? How about all those people that got bad queens?


----------



## MichaBees

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

How about some interest on the money he used for all this time for free?


----------



## alblancher

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

HeHe

Bet you get interest on your tax refund!


----------



## MichaBees

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

I would trust more Uncle Sam than "El Señor Doctor Russellio"


----------



## SideYardBees

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

I just hope that if he is going to pay, he isn't "robbing Peter to pay Paul." If he can pay, it will far better than any court ordered settlement with attorneys taking their 40 percent off the top.


----------



## heaflaw

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

It may be just a ruse to get people he owe to not take legal action.


----------



## delber

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



MichaBees said:


> I would trust more Uncle Sam than "El Señor Doctor Russellio"


From what I now know of Russel it's about the same IMHO. I wouldn't trust either. I do TRULY hope that things work out for you all!!! I am thankful though that I found this thread. I was going to order from him possibly this spring / summer. I read a thread that possibly his father posted and there's some great info on queens. Here's the post for anyone that's interested. . . 
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?259410-Moving-from-ok-queens-to-great-queens

So I am truly sorry for all of you that have lost and hope you get some remuneration, but I also thank-you for talking about it and hopefully helping many others not to get in trouble.


----------



## sonnypemberton

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



Brandy said:


> Sorry Sonnypemberton, but you probably need to really identify yourself as some of the other subs, what you're real operation is. Who you are, where you are. Also email to [email protected] for questions vs. a phone number, address... Unfortunately you also don't mention anything about a refund, only about being able to fulfill previous orders. I would think you'd want your customers to have a choice whether they're supporting RA, you, or themselves..
> 
> Some of us have been taken to school on what we now look for in a provider. And Rusty Hills is right, anything that mentions RA or Sunkist in my mind is going into the trash.
> 
> And Alblancher, I believe that RA/RH " promised" to fill a number of queen and nuc orders?? He also "promised" to refund a number of orders.. Now, if he had done that, do you think we would all be here today?? But good luck, indeed your not in a strange situation, your in the same situation most of us are in... and when April, May, June comes let us know how it's going.


Very sorry for any confusion, I had written that this was from the AL branch (NOT ME) but from their website where I had ordered queens. Apparently the copy/paste erased my intro. To clarify, I am in NO WAY affiliated with RA.


----------



## Greg Lowe

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Sonnypemberton, I did try to clear that up in this post.
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?264310-Russell-Apiaries&p=900854#post900854


----------



## sonnypemberton

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

thank you sir!


----------



## delber

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Quick question for you all. . . It was pointed out to me that in the thread in my post above that this is the same guy that we are all talking about. (rrussell6870) So my question is regarding his dad. Is he still alive and on Beesource? I have several other questions, but perhaps it's not my place to ask. Questions just out of curiosity.


----------



## alblancher

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Ask away if you wish or pm someone if you feel better about it. The fellow we are talking about is the son. Daddy developed Sunkist and I believe Moonbeam. He was very well respected and from all accounts treated his customers well. That is one of the reasons this mess got so out of hand, everyone thought nothing would change at Russel Apiaries.


----------



## Broke-T

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Delber, all the posting on this forum was by Robert Russell, the person being described here. His Father passed away in the Fall of 2011 I think.

Johnny


----------



## sergie

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

SippyBees said "... I think many of us here would like to know what convinced people... " 

This is just my 2 cent's so take it for whats its worth.


>>Was it his father's reputation? 

Yes and no, it was more the idea that he was trying to fullfill his fathers dream. Though not directly said I got that impression when reading through the website. 

>>The fancy website? 

No, to me it was a cookie cutter website. Are bee breeding websites suppose to be UNfancy? It is really cheap and easy to hire someone to design a nice looking website. Offer free pizza and a few bucks to the local computer wiz kid and in a weekend you got a decent looking site.

>>His knowledge on the forums? 

Yes, but not so much the knowledge but the view he expressed towards other peoples ideas. He never seemed to put down anyone else's ideas or say his way was best. The advice given was not in the form of 'do this or else' but was more 'I do this because...' This openess with information and the friendly way it was given, not only by RA but many others on the RA forums, is the main factor that "convinced" me. 

>>The 12 exotic races of bees?

I was only really interested in the SK line and pollinators. But it wasn't the traits or claims it was more of the precieved connection to pollination/migratory beek's that made me interested in those. The belief that people that make a living from beekeeping use those must mean they are good. The only trait that really caught my attention was the cordovian (sp?) color queen that gave normal looking workers. Being able to spot the queen easy sounded like a blessing. The rest was just icing so to say.

Kind ties into what I said above but, the idea that I now have access to something that only the deep pocket comercial guys could get before, made me feel a bit more on par with the commercial guys. Though this probly comes from the really bad experiance I had with commercial beeks locally.


Also, On a side note... before reading this thread I dropped a note to RA yesterday about a swarm I got from a 30 year old ferrel hive. Today I got a call from one of the sub's they want to come get the hive tomarrow. So some one is at the switch over there still. Before you ask, yes I'm giving them the hive. They have a real good reputation with the local clubs and was really helpful to me with advice and local contacts. Besides that I said I would therefor I will.

Paul

PS If anyone wants a refund on my 2 cents send me a self addressed stamped envelope I'll be happy to send it to you (Mexican peso may be substituted)


----------



## camero7

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Just got a check in the mail from RA.


----------



## MichaBees

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Cameo; I hope to have the same conclusion as you. Good for you.


----------



## MSBEEINSPECTOR

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



Broke-T said:


> Delber, all the posting on this forum was by Robert Russell, the person being described here. His Father passed away in the Fall of 2011 I think.
> 
> Johnny


J. N. Russell died in December 2010


----------



## LT

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

We did business with JN. Good Man


----------



## seal62

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

I kicked this horse more than once,,,now what about a check?


----------



## Vance G

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

I would sure write them and say this is my address and you owe me $_____ and send it to them. I ditched the envelope I got the check in. Maybe someone has it for you.


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## alblancher

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Is the web link still up about refunds on the RA site?


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## alblancher

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

seal62

PM sent


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## Colleen O.

Thank you guys for the information. In light of what is going on I sent an email cancelling my holdover and requesting a refund. I got a response saying they were investigating my claim and would get back with me. It irks me that he lied about who he was right to my face.


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## southfork

Hmmmm. Interesting read. I was in the process of putting in an order for sk queens and something happened with one of my young children so I didn't get a chance to for several days. By then all hell was breaking loose and I backed out. Seems I dodged a bullet. edit: darn shame. I still dream of such a bee as the sk/skc was touted to be.

Edi


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## amethysta

I had ordered one nuc in 2011, never received it and never heard back from my many inquires to RA. Now I have received a letter from a bankruptcy service that noted that I do not have the right to demand reimbursement from Russell Apiaries. I thought you folks may be interested in this news.


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## Rusty Hills Farm

He's filed for bankruptcy, which puts him under the protection of the bankruptcy court. Which is to say that you get in line with the rest of the people he owes money to. The courts will decide who--if anyone--gets paid. That always seems to mean that the banks get theirs first (if there is anything to "get") and everyone else gets to whistle "Dixie"!

Rusty


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## Intheswamp

Rusty Hills Farm said:


> He's filed for bankruptcy, which puts him under the protection of the bankruptcy court.
> 
> Rusty


Which, as I understand it, means that you are (by law) not to contact them in any way in regards to collection or debt.

Ed


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## Rusty Hills Farm

Intheswamp said:


> Which, as I understand it, means that you are (by law) not to contact them in any way in regards to collection or debt.
> 
> Ed


Exactly.

Rusty


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## deknow

Intheswamp said:


> Which, as I understand it, means that you are (by law) not to contact them in any way in regards to collection or debt.


Err, not quite. Once you are informed as to the contact info for his bankruptcy attorney, that is who you must contact (and you cannot keep contacting the debtor directly).
Unless there are really good books (which I doubt), the attorney responsible probably doesn't have a list of beekeepers that are owed anything.
You have to contact the attorney if you even want to be on a list that might be compensated. Russell has to give you the information about the attorney.

deknow


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## Specialkayme

deknow said:


> Unless there are really good books (which I doubt), the attorney responsible probably doesn't have a list of beekeepers that are owed anything.


The schedules listed most of his creditors fairly accurately from what I knew. 



deknow said:


> You have to contact the attorney if you even want to be on a list that might be compensated. Russell has to give you the information about the attorney.


Not correct. If you received notice of the bankruptcy, you are listed as a creditor already. If the Trustee decides there are assets to liquidate, he will request that creditors file a Proof of Claim. Those that file a Proof of Claim will be paid, pro-rata, from the net proceeds from the sale of property.

If you did not receive notice of the bankruptcy, you were not listed as a creditor. You should contact the debtor's attorney and request to be added to the schedules (or contact the Trustee, although he won't do anything at the moment). If you didn't receive notice of the bankruptcy (either formally through the mail, or informally by reading this thread) you can still contact the debtor directly, but once you receive notice you must stop. Failure to do so is a violation of Federal law.


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## Intheswamp

Thanks for clarifying some of the issues regarding contacting the debtor. 

It doesn't hurt to put your name in the pot, but if there are secured creditors...don't hold your breath on getting any satisfaction as it will be a slim chance that you will get it.

Ed


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## amethysta

Intheswamp said:


> Thanks for clarifying some of the issues regarding contacting the debtor.
> 
> It doesn't hurt to put your name in the pot, but if there are secured creditors...don't hold your breath on getting any satisfaction as it will be a slim chance that you will get it.
> 
> Ed


One thing the letter mentioned is to not put a claim until I was instructed to do so. All I can do is be happy that it was only one nuc.


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## Rusty Hills Farm

If you are listed in the bankruptcy, can't you then take a tax deduction from the IRS for the loss? So at least that would be one way for everyone to recoup a bit of the money lost.

Rusty


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## Wisnewbee

why not hit him another way. Since you most likely will not recieve a penny in the bankruptcy, make the decision to write off the debt and have a 1099-C Cancellation of Debt issued. This is reported to the IRS as income and he is forced to file it as income. You will have to wait until after this is all done otherwise while it's in proceedings, he doesn't have to claim it as income.

Wisnewbee


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## Intheswamp

Hmm, federal bankruptcy laws don't protect the debtor from this?


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## alblancher

I guess it all depends on if you are named as a creditor or not in the bankruptcy.


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## Specialkayme

No, it doesn't matter if you are named as a creditor in the bk. If you are reading this thread, you have received notice of the bk. You can't issue a 1099-C to someone who received a discharge of the debt.


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## matt1954

Actually, I went through this with WorldCom who was one of my clients in a prior life. You have to contact the court and download a form called a "proof of claim" from the courts website. Complete it, send any proof you have and file it with the court. You may get something, but you will never be made whole. I wound up getting 20 cents on the dollar from my claim with WolrdCom. Also, always send an additional copy of the proof of claim and ask for a "file marked" return copy. Hope this helps.




deknow said:


> Err, not quite. Once you are informed as to the contact info for his bankruptcy attorney, that is who you must contact (and you cannot keep contacting the debtor directly).
> Unless there are really good books (which I doubt), the attorney responsible probably doesn't have a list of beekeepers that are owed anything.
> You have to contact the attorney if you even want to be on a list that might be compensated. Russell has to give you the information about the attorney.
> 
> deknow


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## beeG

MTINAZ said:


> I wanted to let everyone know some of the information that I discovered while trying to figure out who stole my hives. Robert Russell is running a big scam. He was going by the name Rob hughes on the phone and in person saying that rob hughes was Roberts employee and crew chief. He is very good at this and always referred to Robert as "Doc" in the third person. He even sent me PM's stating Rob was in Florida running their bees there and he was all over the country tending bees. I discovered this after the sheriffs office showed me a mug shot of Robert Russell and it was the same person I had been working with calling him self rob hughes. I personally do not believe he has more than a few hive and does not have all these different strains. Any strains he does have must of came from his fathers operation. The sheriff's office also told us he was charged in Philadelphia MS with taking someones money for bees and never delivering them. I believe most of the people working for him and running his "Russell apiaries family" sites also know all this. I would recommend anyone with orders with anyone associated with Robert Russell cancel them. The man is a dishonest crook. I speculate but have no proof that he was taking my bees all year long and selling them as nucs with phillip butts, one of his "employees"


can you assist me with any contact info of a sheriffs office or what not to report that Robert Russell ripped me off too? because I was so nice to him he walked all over me and I am pretty sure if I stay quiet I will never get any retribution .


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## beeG

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



NY_BLUES said:


> Anyone that ordered queens from Russell Apiaries NY can contact me and I WILL refund any moneys paid. I feel terrible that any of this has happened. I am truely sorry, and I can say that I had NO idea of any of this when I associated my bee farm with RA. Anyone with orders for queens from Russell Apiaries NY will be receiving a full refund if they so choose.


why don't you just send them their bees???? If they ordered from you and did not get bees, who is that on? The Arkansas/Missouri RA still is associated with him and ignored my calls until I tricked him using another number.. To me he has fleas too from not only laying with Russell apriares but also acting just like them with no communication and giving false hope. This whole thing is just wrong. I trust no one now. The saddest part I simply love the bees but no longer have any to tend which makes me a very angry woman.


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## Specialkayme

beeG said:


> can you assist me with any contact info of a sheriffs office or what not to report that Robert Russell ripped me off too?


Attempting to collect on a debt once you've received notice (or taking action to enforce, improve your position, or otherwise reacting or retaliating) of the bankruptcy is a violation of federal law (11 U.S.C. Sec. 362), and punishable by sanctions. You can contact the trustee, you can contact the court, you can contact the attorney for the debtor, but I wouldn't suggest contacting anyone else.


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## SideYardBees

Specialkayme said:


> Attempting to collect on a debt once you've received notice (or taking action to enforce, improve your position, or otherwise reacting or retaliating) of the bankruptcy is a violation of federal law (11 U.S.C. Sec. 362), and punishable by sanctions. You can contact the trustee, you can contact the court, you can contact the attorney for the debtor, but I wouldn't suggest contacting anyone else.


Special, if you really know any useful info...like names and addresses for such contacts..why don't you share that with her. You seen to have been on top of this RA scandal minute by minute. Who should she call?


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## beeG

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



kincade said:


> I can't seem to find my last post on this in the Russell thread, but to reiterate my experience I ordered a single queen last spring to replace a bad queen in a package I had received. Queen was delayed in the MS post office for 3 days in the heat and did not lay for 3 weeks. After an email to 'victoria' RR sent another queen at no charge overnight USPS. I started the first queen on a nuc who started laying shortly thereafter (banked queen or just the heat?) and both hives did fairly well over the summer seem to be still alive (although it is still too cold here to do a full inspection). Had I thought my money was at risk or any shady business was occurring I would have ordered elsewhere. I can't figure out why he would fulfill mine and send a replacement at his cost yet take so many other's money without so much as a response. It's sad and infuriating.
> 
> .


Wow and my queens were purchased in 2011 a birthday present to myself. All I got was the run around, and I even went as far as defending them and alienating other bee keepers which were assumed to be crazy and lying according to those poising as, and representing RA. I even had one of his guys play against the other a philip was willing to send me queens I was reluctant because I already paid the year before but I needed queens really bad my hives were failing. They were not diseased state even analyzed some samples for me, they were free of mites and disease just bad genetics off an original bad genetic queen I purchased the year before. Well hugh emails me through that forum that philip was a scamster and was stealing queens from RA then selling them as his own. So I did not order them just sat and waited , then I see them chatting up like they were best buddies and business partners this is when I knew something was very wrong but it was much late in the season I went out on a limb and bought some carnies from Ca but not enough time to build and I lost all my hives over the winter. Then Victoria sends me an email that she spoke with RR and said He was going to have his Mo sub producer give me 2 nucs for my troubles which did not happen and Wont the guy told me he has to be paid. Then told me RA was in bankruptcy. He ignored my calls for weeks and emails I had to use another number to get him to answer. I do believe he is a scamster too I even asked him why he was still associated with RA


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## mathesonequip

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

my day job is I am a dairy equipment dealer, for years... once you get notice of an agricultural banckruptcy you might as well forget seeing what your short. secured creditors [not you] will get every penny that the courts and lawers can not steal [legal fees]. I learned years ago not too even waste time fileing the paperwork. you will NEVER see a cent, move on!


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## Specialkayme

SideYardBees said:


> Who should she call?


If she wants to know, she can pm me. I'm always hesitant to put contact information for attorneys, even if public record, on forums for the masses to search for years after the case is closed. 

Or she can call the United States Bankruptcy Court for the Southern District of Mississippi, Jackson Office.


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## Greg Helms

I was migratory into MS near Yazoo City in the early to mid 80's and we (my self and local beekeeper G. Cannon) had the bad luck of dealing with this Russell clan then. We took old man Russell to one of Genes nuc yards. Low and behold 3 days later when we went back the whole yard (120 4 frame nucs ) was gone. We always had a suspicion it was Russell but no way to prove it. All these years later it seems we were correct in believing he stole them.


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## Greg Helms

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Seems to be Russell is back, now on EBAY selling again, buyers bee,,,,, ware.


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## bucksbees

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Being new to beekeeping, this thread was very helpful, this thread should be required reading of anyone that joins bee source so that they may be aware of the scams out there.


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## Intheswamp

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Wow, the epic con...what a fiasco, and rip-off.

These recent posts made me look to see if the old Russell website was still up. It's not, but the "State Operator Program" version of it is. This is the one like "Russell Apiaries - Mississippi" where each state was "supposed" to get a Russell strain bred locally for people in that local. Man, there were more tendrils of this con than a 10-acre patch of kudzu has!!! *Lots* of people lost their shirts.  

The link below still has some photos, "breed" descriptions, videos, etc.,. Even a disclaimer about how "another website" caused Russell Apiaries to go bankrupt.  

http://russellapiaries.webs.com/

As for the eBay presence, I looked and did a search for "honey bees mississippi" and it returned a seller selling bees with a last name that matches a last name included in the Russell con. I definitely can't say there's any connection there, though...they've got 60 positive feedbacks (100%). And lots of people have/use the same last names but are no kin or associated with one another.

In their eBay listing there is a preponderance of the word "Sunkist" used toward the bottom of the ad...the wording below the "lineage" about population densities is interesting. Here's a quote of that part:

"_We open breed in saturated areas that we have 'seeded' with swarms to establish the feral colonies genetics. We keep swarming hives of .45cuft. that promote swarming. In 2010/2011 we released the 'Sunkist x Sunkist' at 5 colonies per kilometer for 30 km2. The release was on an isthmus and well isolated. We have since continued this method using VSH/Pol-line genetics with apparent success in noting strong VSH in observed feral colonies._"

Oh well...the "deja'vu" feeling I'm having is probably just the pineapple/jalapeno pizza I had last night...

Ed


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## tedlemay

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*

Sad thing is he had a good thing going. Wonderful idea. If it had only been on the up and up! A lot of people got scammed bad on this one. Hope these people got justice for what he did to them all. I was one of the lucky ones and got most of my money back.


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## AstroBee

*Re: Robert Russell is a fraud*



Intheswamp said:


> "_We open breed in saturated areas that we have 'seeded' with swarms to establish the feral colonies genetics. We keep swarming hives of .45cuft. that promote swarming. In 2010/2011 we released the 'Sunkist x Sunkist' at 5 colonies per kilometer for 30 km2. The release was on an isthmus and well isolated. We have since continued this method using VSH/Pol-line genetics with apparent success in noting strong VSH in observed feral colonies._"
> 
> Oh well...the "deja'vu" feeling I'm having is probably just the pineapple/jalapeno pizza I had last night...
> 
> Ed


Not sure its the pizza.... sounds pretty similar to the garbage that he was spewing. I sure hope not, and if not, I apologize to the ebay seller.


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