# Feed Rims



## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

I am making 3/4" feed rims so that I can feed pollen supplement and or pollen patties for population increase.
I am putting feeder pails on the bees too.
The syrup for filling the pails is a heavy type. (2:! at least) For those that read this and need to know what a 2:1 ratio is it's two parts sugar and one part water by volume.
GRAiNGER has quoted me the following prices for the 2 gallon buckets with the "O" type seal in the cover.
Bucket: $3.83
Lid: $2.16

Any comments are welcomed.
Ernie Lucas Apiaries


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

BEES4U said:


> GRAiNGER has quoted me the following prices for the 2 gallon buckets with the "O" type seal in the cover.
> Bucket: $3.83
> Lid: $2.16Any comments are welcomed.
> Ernie Lucas Apiaries



Ernie, I have three gal feeders for sale in good shape.


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## high rate of speed (Jan 4, 2008)

Ernie,keiths buckets are like brand new,seen em personally.As far as the rim for feeding pollen,you are better off cracking the boxes,and putting the product in the middle of the hive.I realize it is more labor,but you will be happier with the end results.Best of luck.


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

*Cracking the boxes*

I'll 2nd high rate regards patties. Easier 2nd time and afterwards.


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

high rate of speed said:


> ...you are better off cracking the boxes,and putting the product in the middle of the hive.I realize it is more labor,but you will be happier with the end results.Best of luck.


When we first strip them down in the fall the brood nest is right on top and that is where we put the first couple rounds of patties. Last year the problem was getting the covers back down short of sitting on them. We put rims on our covers this year for this. They eat those patties right up off the top until they get a little winter feed on. If we cracked the boxes then we would be somewhat in the middle but mostly _under_ the brood. Later, once they are pushed down a little we crack the boxes and put the sub between them. We had no problem doing this last year, and don't see a reason to spend the extra labor until we need to. Those deep boxes are heavyyyyyy.
Sheri


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## high rate of speed (Jan 4, 2008)

Totally agree Sheri,at the end of the day,a person looks and feels like they have been run over by a [BUS].


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## pahvantpiper (Apr 25, 2006)

You won't regret the rim. Great for pollen patties, meds and I've heard others say the space helps with air circulation and is healthier for bees.

I put 2-one gallon feeders in each of my hives in the top box. One on each side. Two gallons is better than one if I need it and no extra equipment to haul around.


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

*Rims*

Ernie when the sundowners or some variation come down out of the hills you'll never find your lids!


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

pahvantpiper said:


> no extra equipment to haul around.


Other than the rims.

Why bother, tilt the hive foward through the pollen patty on the floor board and call it done, no rims to make or truck back & forth to the shop.


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

*Why bother*

Keith not all of us have clusters that come to the bottom of the bottom box!


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## pahvantpiper (Apr 25, 2006)

"Other than the rims."

My rims are part of my lids. I didn't realize Ernie's were separate.

Keith, how do you get your bees to eat off the bottom board? Sometimes I'll have pollen patties drip to the bottom if I get it too wet but the bees never touch it. If I put it in the middle of the boxes they devour it.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

pahvantpiper;339696Keith said:


> Have bees in your boxes.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Rob, It's been a long day, I had to have a little fun.

This only works in warm weather, also I make up several different formula's depending on where & when I'm feeding.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*Ernie when the sundowners or some variation come down out of the hills you'll never f*

Tom,
I had 6 cement bricks on the hives last year. The north east winds were clocked at gusts up to 82mph!
I have used L shaped brackets to prevent the covers from blowing off.
I may drill a pilot hole through the cover, the feed rim and into the super. I can use hex head # 10 x 2 & 1/2" sheet metal screws if I have to.
I have had good results feeding the bees when the patty is placed between the 2 hive bodies.
Regards,
Ernie


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*Cracking the boxes*

Cracking open the boxes by rocking the top one upon the bottom one's cleat makes it easier
Ernie


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*Torula yeast suppliers.*

I am looking for a supplier of Torula yeast. 
Hopefully one near home to keep the shipping cost down.
Please send comments.
Spray dried brewers yeast is used with a low salt, 02 %, is available.
I want to do some in-field feeding trials.

Block +TY = With Torula yeast

Block +BY = with Brewers Yeast

Block +50:50 = 50% TY + 50% BY

Block ML15 = Mann Lake 15% patties.

Block C (Minus +TY, +BY and + 1:1) = Contol

Block KJ = Kieth Jarrett. (Kieth, I wanted to know if you read this part?)

Block P = % pollen. This could complicate the experiment.

The syrup used will be C & H granulated sugar mixed in a 2:1 by volume.

As in all experiments I need to keep the variables down to a small influence on the Raw and Final Data.--I need a very good conclusion.

I have the queen stocks to test the Breeder queen daughters.
I will try to use test blocks of at least 50 hives/block so that the experiment will produce conclusive evidence.
The reason that I want to do this research is because I have read other data reports and they did not have any controls or their data base was only 10 hives.. Now how can you say that something works or it did not work without controls or such a small data base?

Please submit your ideas.
Regards,
Ernie Lucas Apiaries


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

*Ernie*

FYI:

Nothing in beekeeping is easy.


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## Matt Beekman (Dec 15, 2007)

*Ernie*

Just my $0.02 worth: having bee pollen in a feed typically increases the consumption rate regardless of what the other ingredients are. If you are trying to determine the most effective patty formulation, I would consider using the same percentage of pollen in all formulations or remove it from all of them. Looking at your various groups currently, the 15% patty will probably be consumed the fastest. Also, isn't Torula (sp.?) yeast an Australian product? 

Also if anyone is interested, truckload quantities of brewers yeast is $0.37 per lb. and soy is $0.46 per lb. These are not delivered prices.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Matt Beekman said:


> These are not delivered prices.


Let me take a shot in the dark is it coming from Perkin,IL ?


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## J-Bees (Jul 12, 2008)

BEES4U said:


> Tom,
> I had 6 cement bricks on the hives last year. The north east winds were clocked at gusts up to 82mph!
> I have used L shaped brackets to prevent the covers from blowing off.
> I may drill a pilot hole through the cover, the feed rim and into the super. I can use hex head # 10 x 2 & 1/2" sheet metal screws if I have to.
> ...


*when you make your tops change the way you make them, make the part that goes around the hive longer than 3" use a full 1x4 it won't blow off as easy.*


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## high rate of speed (Jan 4, 2008)

If a person wants to use a spacer for pollen sub,why not use shallow shells,we all have shells sitting around the shop.It would save time and labor of building 3/4 rims.Just a suggestion.


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

high rate of speed said:


> If a person wants to use a spacer for pollen sub,why not use shallow shells,we all have shells sitting around the shop.It would save time and labor of building 3/4 rims.Just a suggestion.


We have about 2300 colonies, more than 50 outyards, some more than 30 miles away. It would be a chore and a logistic PITA to haul that many extra pieces of equipment around to those yards, even if we had them, which we don't. The rims are permanent on the covers and hopefully will be a time and energy saver. This is our first year using them so we will see. It _has_ been a project building them, but no extra mileage as John is replacing the non-rimmed covers with rimmed covers as he goes around pulling honey.
Sheri


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## high rate of speed (Jan 4, 2008)

Sheri,
I totally agree it was just a suggestion for the guys who are building the rims.I deffinatly would not want to haul out 6000 shallow rims just to feed pollen.Guess I am just stubborn,and want to keep the chiropractor happy,by cracking everything.HEE-HAW.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

JohnK and Sheri said:


> some more than 30 miles away. Sheri


Your killing me.... lol

I don't have a single within 30 miles.


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

Keith Jarrett said:


> Your killing me.... lol
> 
> I don't have a single within 30 miles.


Yeah, but Keith, aren't they big holding yards, more efficient than honey production yards? And ...and ...and ...besides, they are all downhill from home right?
Sheri


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

high rate of speed said:


> Sheri,
> Guess I am just stubborn,and want to keep the chiropractor happy,by cracking everything.HEE-HAW.


Yeah, I think the chiropractors would go out of business if it wasn't for beekeepers. Every beek I know has one, sometimes one in every state he goes to. 
I do agree the patties most often need to go in between the boxes. It is just a window we have in the late summer where we can get away with putting them on top. We gotta grasp opportunity when it appears don't ya know.
Sheri


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

JohnK and Sheri said:


> Yeah, but Keith, aren't they big holding yards, more efficient than honey production yards?
> Sheri


HHm,
I wish it was so easy, about twenty five bee yards and about twenty mile raidus once I get there.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*Also, isn't Torula (sp.?) yeast an Australian product?*

Torula yeast is a yeast that is cultured on sawdust.
China imports Torula.
It is produced from the southern yellow pine forest.
It is costly because it is used as a flavor enhanser. Check the contents for a bag of flavored chips.
The last sack that I bought was from Los Angeles Honey Company about 1973The brewers yeast is more available and about 1/3 to 1/4 the cost.
Regards,
Ernie


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*Making rims*

I can make them for $0.50/rim
Remember, that in sunny southern California we have a warm to hot fall and the bees can nibble away on the patties 24/7.
There was a time many years ago that the bees could draw out 2-3 frames of foundation on a eucalyptus honey flow. 

Regards,
Ernie


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## high rate of speed (Jan 4, 2008)

Ernie,more than 3/4s of our hives are in california year round.August through the end of september is the window for putting pollen sub on the top.That is if you get the hive trained to take it from up above.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*when you make your tops*

Thanks for the suggestion.
The hives are for migratory purposes and the side piece multiplies each row by 3/4" of an inch and the bees are on pallets.
Cutting the blank covers out of a piece of plywood is expensive enough.
8 blanks and scrap for 8 framers
Thank you,
Ernie


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*HR of S.*

High rate of speed,
You are right about August-September and then later on crack open the brood chamber.
How many times have we killed a queen with the patty in the center vs the top with a feed rim?
Regards,
Ernie


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## high rate of speed (Jan 4, 2008)

Hey Ernie,
there is no doubt that we kill a few queens,by cracking them in the middle.but you sure lesson your chance,by putting on more product and making less trips.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*there is no doubt that we kill a few queens*

Agreed.
Frequency of application can provide the chances of a patty queen.
We have to keep our mind set on *the total benefits *for the hives and our hive count.
Regards,
Ernie


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*My rims are part of my lids. I didn't realize Ernie's were separate.*

My new feed rims are stapled to the cover.
I used a 3/4" X 1 & 1/2" furring strip cut to lengths and laid out on the 3/4" side so that I can staple the cover onto the rim. I made a jig so that I can drop the rim pieces in, the cover, and then staple the cover to the rim. The first style was lightweight and unstable. They cost $1.33 each to make.
Thank you for all the help!
Ernie


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*That is if you get the hive trained to take it from up above.*

I put a single pattie on first and they totally consumed it!
So, like I was told I gave them two patties.
Regards,
Ernie


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## WOpp (May 29, 2009)

We have been using 3/4 rims for 2 yrs. We now have them nailed to our lids. Had a very hard wind here this morning. not one lid off 2100 hives. They work very well. If you need buckets, try Uline, they are very cheap,


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## gregstahlman (Oct 7, 2009)

We have bought all of our 2 gal. feeder pails from a place called Paragon manufacturing. Been ordering from there for over 30 years. the price is cheaper than the ones you were looking at. they still come available with a metal handle too. 

here's a link
http://www.paragonmanufacturing.com/main.htm


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

*Re: HR of S.*

do you not find any trouble with the bees filling that space with comb? Sure is handy to have the space when feeding patties. But sure is a problem later when they fill it with comb!
Does your tops allow you to flip the rim over?


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## WOpp (May 29, 2009)

Yes it is a problem, however I prefer pollen patties on top and not in the middle of the cluster espesialy when it cools of. I feel it dissrupts the hives ability to regulate temp and becomes very detremental to the well beeing of it. My tops are reversable so I can put the rim up and let the sun do its thing.


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