# Making your own drone comb for DHCs



## SRatcliff (Mar 19, 2011)

So Randy Oliver has that part of one of his articles that shows how he makes drone traps using a deep frame with a horizontal bar 2/3rds of the way up, foundation above, foundation-less below. I am wanting to draw out drone comb for my Drone Holding Colonies for mating, and need more than I am willing to buy I think. Do you think this method will work for me? What would you change?

http://scientificbeekeeping.com/fighting-varroa-biotechnical-tactics-ii/


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## drlonzo (Apr 15, 2014)

There's an easier way that doesn't involve having to staple in a mid rib in the frame. 
Cut a piece of RiteCell foundation in half and put in the frame. Then allow the bees in a full sized colony draw out the frame. They will have no choice to draw the foundation but worker, and will gladly draw the open ares with drone cells.
Lauri Miller has a thread on here about it. 
She's tested and retested the method and published her work here. http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?301391-Photos-of-my-partial-sheet-of-foundation-in-deep-frames-experiment&highlight=partial+foundation


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## Swampsquash (Oct 25, 2014)

I have built and used the oliver done traps in my for hives for the past month of so. I have only one hive that has made any drone comb in the frame (and its half drone half worker). Basically they build worker brood or store honey in it..... One hive stored honey where the drone brood is supposed to be and worker brood in the honey foundation area. So far they haven't been a hit but I won't give up yet! I may have to break down and buy green frames :-/


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## Swampsquash (Oct 25, 2014)

drlonzo said:


> There's an easier way that doesn't involve having to staple in a mid rib in the frame.
> Cut a piece of RiteCell foundation in half and put in the frame. Then allow the bees in a full sized colony draw out the frame. They will have no choice to draw the foundation but worker, and will gladly draw the open ares with drone cells.
> Lauri Miller has a thread on here about it.
> She's tested and retested the method and published her work here. http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?301391-Photos-of-my-partial-sheet-of-foundation-in-deep-frames-experiment&highlight=partial+foundation


I have done this as well.... Works well.... I get more worker brood then I thought I would, but I do get some drone brood and cut it out. I find the drone traps come together pretty fast if your setup for making a bunch at a time. I may just stick to the partial sheets from now on.


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## SRatcliff (Mar 19, 2011)

drlonzo said:


> There's an easier way that doesn't involve having to staple in a mid rib in the frame.
> Cut a piece of RiteCell foundation in half and put in the frame. Then allow the bees in a full sized colony draw out the frame. They will have no choice to draw the foundation but worker, and will gladly draw the open ares with drone cells.
> Lauri Miller has a thread on here about it.
> She's tested and retested the method and published her work here. http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?301391-Photos-of-my-partial-sheet-of-foundation-in-deep-frames-experiment&highlight=partial+foundation


I wonder if I can make the foundation part thinner, in order to gain more drone on the outside?


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## drlonzo (Apr 15, 2014)

SRatcliff said:


> I wonder if I can make the foundation part thinner, in order to gain more drone on the outside?


Lauri uses basically 4 diff sizes. Full sheet, 2/3 sheet, 1/2 sheet, and 1/3 sheet. The amount of drone she gets on the 1/3 sheet is quite large on each end. 

I'll be using this type of setup in each of my drone mother hives this year to get extra drones. I'll be putting them in the center of the brood nest on the bottom box to make sure they get pulled out quick and filled with needed drones too.


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## Swampsquash (Oct 25, 2014)

SRatcliff said:


> I wonder if I can make the foundation part thinner, in order to gain more drone on the outside?


Def worth a try!


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

Anytime after your swarm season is close, put a foundationless frame in a strong colony between two frames of brood and the bees will draw it out all drone comb and the bees will raise a whole frame of drones. I do it in colonies with a mite load and then cut the drone brood out when capped to take a lot of varroa to the chickens. I am going to try to raise some queens this year and I worry about all those mites I am going to produce with the emerging drones!


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## drlonzo (Apr 15, 2014)

Vance G said:


> Anytime after your swarm season is close, put a foundationless frame in a strong colony between two frames of brood and the bees will draw it out all drone comb and the bees will raise a whole frame of drones. I do it in colonies with a mite load and then cut the drone brood out when capped to take a lot of varroa to the chickens. I am going to try to raise some queens this year and I worry about all those mites I am going to produce with the emerging drones!


Vance - You could always hit the hive just after the bulk of the drones are emerged with a OAV treatment. If most of the drones emerge around the same day it would be ideal to kill em off.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

If you are going to raise some queens this year, it is better to get rid of the mites before
the first capped broods. This is to get the mites at their lowest population so they will not
affect your drones. So knock them down before they even have a chance to invade
your drone cells. Imagine 12+ mites in each drone cell. Mite management is even more important
in the Spring time for some healthy drones.


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## drlonzo (Apr 15, 2014)

beepro said:


> If you are going to raise some queens this year, it is better to get rid of the mites before
> the first capped broods. This is to get the mites at their lowest population so they will not
> affect your drones. So knock them down before they even have a chance to invade
> your drone cells. Imagine 12+ mites in each drone cell. Mite management is even more important
> in the Spring time for some healthy drones.


Extremely good point Beepro! :thumbsup:


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## johng (Nov 24, 2009)

You can run a medium frame in the #6 or #4 spot and they will almost always draw drone comb off the bottom of the frame. When the drones are capped you can just scape the whole piece of comb off and put it back in the hive to start over.


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

You don't even need the upper section. Just use a foundationless frame with Popsicle stick guide.


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## SRatcliff (Mar 19, 2011)

Thanks for the advice everyone!



KQ6AR said:


> You don't even need the upper section. Just use a foundationless frame with Popsicle stick guide.


That may work since I use plastic foundation, and don't really have much drone on most of my combs, it could give them a chance to draw them out.


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## Swampsquash (Oct 25, 2014)

johng said:


> You can run a medium frame in the #6 or #4 spot and they will almost always draw drone comb off the bottom of the frame. When the drones are capped you can just scape the whole piece of comb off and put it back in the hive to start over.


I tried this and they built worker brood... Go figure...I have difficult bees


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

The best time to get the natural drone comb is during the Spring time in a strong hive that is
building up in a flow. Without the flow either stimulant or natural they will not build much.
The smaller nuc hive will not draw much but instead only draw the worker cells to expand their
colony.


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## AR Beekeeper (Sep 25, 2008)

I have only a few colonies, but I prefer the drone frame that is dedicated to producing all drones. I use drone foundation and wire the frame. When the cells are capped, the frame can be frozen or it can be placed in colonies to emerge for mating purposes. If it is frozen, the cappings can be scraped and the pupa washed out and the comb reused. This saves the bees having to redraw the comb each time it is used. For varroa control the best time to use drone brood removal is on the earlest cycles of brood, this is usually before any wax will be produced by the bees.


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## Stephenpbird (May 22, 2011)

Here in Germany, Drone removal is part of the recommended IPM. We just put a normal frame without foundation or starter strips in position #2 or #9 (sometimes both if there is a high mite load). A strong colony, just before and during swarm time, always draws a full comb of drone brood. In winter the bees are treated with OA during the broodless period so often the first round of Drones are free from Varroa, but that does not last too long as seen in the second video.

In the first video you can see the beekeeper looking for queen cells that have been laid in (swarm control), he also removes the drone comb when all the cells have been capped.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9f3qfWR1Bns
In the second video he removes the capings with a knife and then the contents of the cells by banging the frames. The frames can either be melted down or re-used.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhwCg5FOt-c


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## SRatcliff (Mar 19, 2011)

I am doing some experimenting. I decided to buy some wax drone foundation from Mann Lake, cut them into starter strips(to get more out of it). I stuck them into both deep and medium frames, and installed them in my 4x4 frame nucs, about 20 so far. I put them in different frame locations, but all in the top box since that's where most of my brood is right now. I installed these frames 5 days ago.

I thought that sticking them in between worker brood may cause them to just build working comb, but most of them haven't built any worker on it yet. A few have some eggs in them, but I have now moved most of the drone frames to between frames of brood to encourage the queen to lay and to draw them out faster. I've got syrup and pollen supplement on all my hives. It's still pretty early here, but I'm just testing the waters. I haven't checked the yard that has the deep frames.


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

This time of year you're hives want one or 2 frames of drone brood. Put an empty frame in & you'll get drone brood.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

I have 2 or 3 drone combs in my drone production hives, here is a pic of one.

To make then I just hang an empty frame in the brood box. The other combs are solid worker so the bees want to build drone. If the hive is not strong or it's out of season they may build worker comb. The frames are wired as I don't harvest drone comb much, the bees build to the wire.

Something else to bear in mind is that drone combs are wider. To make it properly work you have to give the drone combs some extra space. Personally I would not mess with combs that are part drone part worker, too many management issues. I need my hives to have how much drone comb I need them to, or not have, and be able to control that without messing with combs that are a bit of each.


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## SRatcliff (Mar 19, 2011)

Oldtimer said:


> I have 2 or 3 drone combs in my drone production hives, here is a pic of one.
> 
> To make then I just hang an empty frame in the brood box. The other combs are solid worker so the bees want to build drone. If the hive is not strong or it's out of season they may build worker comb. The frames are wired as I don't harvest drone comb much, the bees build to the wire.
> 
> Something else to bear in mind is that drone combs are wider. To make it properly work you have to give the drone combs some extra space. Personally I would not mess with combs that are part drone part worker, too many management issues. I need my hives to have how much drone comb I need them to, or not have, and be able to control that without messing with combs that are a bit of each.


Do you move your drone brood to queen less/virgin hives? Also, what management issues would you have with some worker comb on it?


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

No, I have drone production hives where my mating yards are. They just get drone comb given to them and left to it, just to ensure there are plenty of drones in the DCA. Each drone comb can in theory produce around 2,500 drones per 4 weeks.


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## SRatcliff (Mar 19, 2011)

Here is what they look like now. Most have done a good job of just making drone comb with 3 inchish start strips, but I think I will be using full sheets from now on. Had to use medium frames on some at the time, since I was running behind on deeps. First graft is in 9 days!


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

SRatcliff said:


> First graft is in 9 days!


Nice work, looks like you'll be ready!


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