# review of OAV treatment and price comparison



## dudelt (Mar 18, 2013)

I have read lots of complaints regarding how long it takes to vaporize hives so I decided to time the OAV treatment of 10 hives last night and give a totally honest review of the process. Equipment used: Varrocleaner, riding lawnmower with battery and breathing apparatus of course. Total time: 61 minutes including the 10 minutes the final hive needed to be sealed up. On every hive, it took an average of 2 minutes to set up and three minutes to vaporize. Set up time included pulling the wand out of the previous hive and making sure the hive was still sealed up, cooling and cleaning the wand, refilling it with OA and starting on the next hive. While the vaporizer was in a hive I would open up any hives that finished up their 10 minutes of being sealed. 

So, does the process of vaporizing take much too time compared to other treatment options? Absolutely! To treat 10 hives for a summer/fall season takes at least 3 hours. Don't forget, you need to do at least 3 treatments 5-7 days apart. But is it cheaper than other treatments? Yes and no. The cost to vaporize 10 hives by my calculations is $96. $1 of OA (it really costs less but I don’t want to fuss with pennies), $20 of depreciation on the vaporizers (I estimate my Varrocleaner will only last 5 years and I paid $96 for it) and $75 of my time @ $25/hour. What would an alternative treatment cost? A 10 treatment pack of MAQS costs roughly $73. $51.95 plus tax $4.75, plus shipping of $16.77 (to my location). Add in one hour of time @ $25 (1/2 an hour to put them in and ½ an hour to remove them) and it costs $98 to treat 10 hives with MAQS. All in all, the cost for either treatment is fairly close. With OA, the product cost is dirt cheap so you pay in time spent. With MAQS, the product costs more but you spend way less time. Also, you can get MAQS shipped for free and can avoid sales tax in some states. So it is possible to save a bit. With OA there are vaporizers that are quicker that you would save time with or build yourself. In the end however, I believe the treatments cost about the same.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

That's a nice evaluation, thanks for sharing. 

The major variable in analyzing the cost is labor/time. If I'm not going to be earning $25.00/hour doing something else during those 3 hours, the treatment cost per hive changes dramatically. 

You are probably underestimating the life span of your vaporizer too. I've been using my Varrox for about 10 years with an average of about 12 hives, and it's still going strong.


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## Flyer Jim (Apr 22, 2004)

How much was the breathing apparatus?


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

That's a good point. 
I've had my respirator since 2007 and still using the original filters. Vaporizing the hives is the only thing I use it for, so it should last much longer. The replacement cost today for the filters is $129.00. So right now I'm at about $13.00 per year for the respirator cost. About $1.30 per hive if you are working with 10 hives.


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## dudelt (Mar 18, 2013)

Flyer Jim said:


> How much was the breathing apparatus?


Amazon has them for about $22.00. I already had the mask and only needed to buy the cartridge. I did not include it in the cost but you should use one for both MAQS or OA


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

Some treat without using a respirator, so that extra cost might be considered optional. I value my well being, so I look at the respirator cost as a health insurance premium.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

dudelt said:


> Amazon has them for about $22.00.


My bad. The $129.00 price I looked up was for a box of 10. I use the 8053 P-100 cartridges.


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## Scpossum (May 4, 2014)

Your analysis looks correct. But, there are things you can do to reduce the price. You can make your own vaporizer and run multiple units to save time. My biggest cost on the vaporizer is the glow plug.


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## orthoman (Feb 23, 2013)

Good analysis. No doubt that you can put MAQS on much quicker, its probably safer and you don't need to remove the supers. 

If I kept bees to make a living, I would be collecting welfare -- probably for the last several years. Since it is a hobby, and I enjoy doing it as a respite from work, my time isn't a factor.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

LOVE MAQS compared to OAV. There's no real comparison for summer treatments.

My biggest complaint is that all of the time spent with OAV is time I could have been doing much more important bee-things. Inspections, equipment building, etc. Instead I'm twiddling my thumbs waiting for my phone alarm to go off.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

jwcarlson said:


> LOVE MAQS compared to OAV. There's no real comparison for summer treatments.


Unless you have 100 degree temperatures every day during summer treatment time.
MAQS doesn't work so well then.


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## bsharp (Feb 5, 2013)

I wasn't able to do it this year due to major SHB problems, but last year I split my hives during July into nucs and caged my queens for 3 weeks to induce a brood break. I didn't treat with OAV at the time, but it would've been an ideal time to do a one-shot OAV treatment in the summer. I read that beekeepers in Italy commonly do this in a thread on here somewhere. Here, late June and July is typically a dearth anyway, so halting brood production also saves resources for an August/September winter buildup. This is my future plan, assuming I can get my beetles under control next year.

Edit: MAQS does make more sense, but it's not an option here. I can't expect < 92F daytime highs for a week straight until mid-September. IMO mites should be taken care of before then.


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## dudelt (Mar 18, 2013)

I would think that if the temperatures are too high for MAQS, you are in a dearth, and you are looking for time savings, Apivar would be a pretty good choice.


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## ritan1 (Nov 10, 2015)

orthoman said:


> Good analysis. No doubt that you can put MAQS on much quicker, its probably safer and you don't need to remove the supers.


I would disagree with this as a blanket statement. I have been wanting to use MAQS this year for late summer treatment, but the entire month of August has simply been too hot to try it. I am hoping to use it in September, but I had to use OAV when a recent alcohol wash revealed a 4% level and I needed to treat now. MAQS has also been associated with brood loss, absconding, and queen losses. Granted, probably due to it being used improperly, but still a reality. OAV is incredibly safe for the bees - I have accidentally overdosed my hives to no ill effect. Once equipped, the cost is pennies, so the cost per use goes down with each use, while MAQS cost is higher and remains high with each use. I only have a few hives, so OAV takes about 20 minutes and I combine it with other beekeeping tasks. It's perfect for new packages (which I hope never to have to use again...), and the winter broodless treatment works great when it's too cold for other treatments, setting up for a great spring.

I say all this to say that we are lucky to have so many options, but no one treatment is perfect. It seems every treatment has its pros and cons. MAQS gets at mites in capped brood, needs only one "set and forget" application, and can be done with supers on - but it has a limited temperature range and can cause queen and brood losses. OAV is very easy and effective, is safe for the bees, and has a wide temperature range - but it doesn't get at mites in capped brood, requires removal/blocking of supers, and requires repeat sessions. I think the key is knowing those pros and cons and choosing the right treatment for your circumstances, including budget, weather, time and bees.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

dudelt said:


> I would think that if the temperatures are too high for MAQS, you are in a dearth, and you are looking for time savings, Apivar would be a pretty good choice.


If you want to use amitraz and the treatment time of 42 days doesn't run into fall flow and fall honey harvest.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

ritan1 said:


> I have been wanting to use MAQS this year for late summer treatment, but the entire month of August has simply been too hot to try it.


You missed your window, it was this week.


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## ritan1 (Nov 10, 2015)

clyderoad said:


> You missed your window, it was this week.


I was so hoping for that window this week, but it's been over 85º every day. It's 88º now at 4 pm. Boston isn't usually this hot for so long, but the last few years, August has been very hot. Our average is usually 78º; this year it's been 87º. And a severe drought to boot.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

clyderoad said:


> Unless you have 100 degree temperatures every day during summer treatment time.
> MAQS doesn't work so well then.


True. But that's a pretty small part of the world, I'd imagine.



ritan1 said:


> I was so hoping for that window this week, but it's been over 85º every day. It's 88º now at 4 pm. Boston isn't usually this hot for so long, but the last few years, August has been very hot. Our average is usually 78º; this year it's been 87º. And a severe drought to boot.


The upper limit for temperature is 92*F unless I'm mistaken? I just treated some earlier this year, it got up to 94 or 95 a couple of days. They have space above to get out of it as needed. No queen issues... no dead brood noted. I just got my MAQS done in temps that don't look much different than what Boston has had during August. In fact, except August 11th-14th, I wouldn't have hesitated to slap a full dose of MAQS on at any point in August in Boston from what I see on weather.com.


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## ritan1 (Nov 10, 2015)

NOD says 50-85º. My bees are already bearding like I've used MAQS! We used it last year at the zoo, and two of ten colonies absconded and one queen died.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

I see the label has changed. I do it under 90. Just treated all my production colonies for next year. Like 17. Zero issues temps upper 80s.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

I have noticed issues with some colonies when temps are in the upper range coupled with excessively high humidity or dead air around the hives.


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## Groundhwg (Jan 28, 2016)

jwcarlson said:


> LOVE MAQS compared to OAV. There's no real comparison for summer treatments.
> 
> My biggest complaint is that all of the time spent with OAV is time I could have been doing much more important bee-things. Inspections, equipment building, etc. Instead I'm twiddling my thumbs waiting for my phone alarm to go off.


Time spent doing OAV treatment is time spent killing as many mites as possible. Best product to use in south Alabama during July or August.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

clyderoad said:


> I have noticed issues with some colonies when temps are in the upper range coupled with excessively high humidity or dead air around the hives.


I'm not doubting you. Most of mine aren't in full sun, but some are. Summer is humid as all get out around here. Heat indexes in the 115* range frequently this summer. I wouldn't treat with MAQs then, but even our upper 80 feels really gross. In fact, today at 78 for a high it was still nasty. 6" of rain so far this month and more on the way. If the goldenrod ever blooms it ought to be well watered.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

I have seen some fairly rational words to the effect that the humidity of the air can have a large influence on the vaporization rate of formic acid. Maybe that could be the influence behind different experience near critical temperatures. I have also heard of blocking part of the Maqs strip with a fold over of poly film for a couple of days it temperature is iffy high.

Food for thought maybe.


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## pinkpantherbeekeeper (Feb 10, 2016)

OP - Good review.

Good comments as your time will be a big factor as to the overall costs. If you run multiple units or run equipment over larger volumes of hives - price per hive drops.

Good price starting point for further tweaking the number for people to suit their own use!


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## larryh (Jul 28, 2014)

bsharp said:


> ... and caged my queens for 3 weeks to induce a brood break..


I like the sound of this and might try it next year (though it may take me longer to find the queen than it would to do the three or four treatments). 
Why don't I hear of more people doing it ?


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

larryh said:


> I like the sound of this and might try it next year (though it may take me longer to find the queen than it would to do the three or four treatments).
> Why don't I hear of more people doing it ?


Could you imagine doing that on more than 2-3 hives?


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## quattro (Oct 2, 2014)

It doesn't seem to take me that long. I have 5 hives and can have them done in less than an hour. I clean my SHB traps out while I wait.


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

I just timed OAV with the JB700. I did 30 hives in 15 minutes from pull up with the truck to dive away. No MAQS can compare. No lifting no back ache and good efficacy.


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