# Winter feeding



## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

Not sure exactly what you're asking but in my experience, they take the sugar from inside the hive. Actually, by the time they use it it's syrupy. Cleansing flights seem only to be cleansing flights. I don't like pollen feeding in the winter or even the very early spring so I'm not sure about the pollen question.


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

Use granulated sugar, not powdered sugar because the later has corn starch in it, which while not lethal to bees, isn't all that good for them either as a form of food. (You could spend the time to pulverise granulated sugar (with a mortar ans pestle) into about the texture of powdered sugar but it would still be clumpy, which is why powdered sugar (called icing sugar in some places) has the corn starch in it.

Enj.


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## Michael B (Feb 6, 2010)

If inclined, make up sugar bricks. Much easier to apply and the bees appear to consume the sugar. Mountain Camp....bees seem to discard most of the sugar. My 2 cents.


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## SwedeBee1970 (Oct 26, 2008)

How would one make sugar bricks and where to apply inside hive if not Mtn Camp ??


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## Michael B (Feb 6, 2010)

25lb sugar mixed with 1qt cider vinegar. mixed so the mix if very dry. Place in food dehydrator for a couple days or in the oven set as low as your oven goes. Place spacer rim on top of brood chamber then place sugar bricks on top.


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## SwedeBee1970 (Oct 26, 2008)

Not sure if they have enough honey, unfortunately. Two hives, I'm comfortable with. The other 3 not so comfortable. Started feeding after honey harvest on 3 in question. The other two an inspector tore apart and screwed them up bad enough to set them back two months. Got a note from him saying to feed them, the two hives.  

Wouldn't it be easier to make like a low profile "Desk drawer" tray out of a honey super box ? Reason being, it's already cold here (below 50) during daytime, and don't wish to rip things apart again. But if I must, will do to ensure secure winter feeding for them.


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## Dave1958 (Mar 25, 2013)

Michael B said:


> 25lb sugar mixed with 1qt cider vinegar. mixed so the mix if very dry. Place in food dehydrator for a couple days or in the oven set as low as your oven goes. Place spacer rim on top of brood chamber then place sugar bricks on top.


I did the same, but added citric acid to break sugar down. I mixed and placed on hives( I wrapped it in newspaper, on bottom to keep totalling through, and top to keep it from sticking to inner cover. However, I had an open bag of sugar left so I made a few bricks. After I placed it in the tray I noticed it "bubbling", which is the sugar breaking down( I think). Usually chemical reaction produce heat. Hope that didn't give me a surprise later


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Check out Lauri's sugar brick on a search here.
It is for emergency feeding in the winter time.
Place these sugar bricks on the top bar of the frames.
No need to go in to mess up the hive. After everything is
done, put a piece of packaging tape around the hive seam outside should
you worry about the cold air coming in. They should be able to
seal these crevices over time.
It is sugar mixed with apple cider vinegar (ACV) so no chemical
reaction should be there.


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## SwedeBee1970 (Oct 26, 2008)

Just adding some pictures for my new BeeFeeder Oven I made. This is really neat since You'll only have to set it up in Fall between the brood box and honey supers. Easy open Oven-like door to check on supplies so we don't have to tear apart the hive in winter. Just open, check and pop in a sugar brick or two, done.

The front door extends out 3/4" beyond the front of the hive (when closed) for easy open/close.



























1/4" hardware cloth extended across two 1x1 wood rails. Fixtured with pole barn screws. All holes pre-drilled. Oven door has two small cabinet door hinges on them and the sides have the coiled retention springs gotten from the hardware store. Costs about $10 to make one. 

Made Five Oven boxes from 7pcs 1x4x6' pine.
Anyone wishes to make their own, I could post a materials list.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

I made my sugar bricks feeding simple. I just lay the thin bricks on
top of the top bars and put the hive cover back on. The hive cover has a 1/4" piece
of flexible foam to make the hive air tight once it is on. Overwintering with the 2 deeps will
keep them warm all winter long here.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

>25lb sugar mixed with 1qt cider vinegar. mixed so the mix if very dry. Place in food dehydrator for a couple days or in the oven set as low as your oven goes. Place spacer rim on top of brood chamber then place sugar bricks on top.

Sounds like a lot of water. 1/3 cup water per 4 lb of sugar does the trick. Be carful with the additives ACV does have solids, and some say it hard on bees. I would just use a splash if any, and the rest water. If you use it inside all that acidic acid in the air is not good for you. 

>After I placed it in the tray I noticed it "bubbling", which is the sugar breaking down( I think). Usually chemical reaction produce heat. Hope that didn't give me a surprise later.

Boiling sugar water = poisonous HMF's being created!
Beesource glossary;
"HMF (Hydroxymethylfurfural): an organic compound derived from dehydration of sugars."

*There is no need to cook the sugar.* Unnecessary use of utilities and your time. Cooking also breaks down any vitamins, probiotics, proteins and amino acids... that you may have added to your recipe. 

Laura did not cook her blocks this year. She air dried them.

I air dried mine in one day, the thicker ones took two. Made most of them thin enough I can put them on the tops of frames or inner cover (I don't have enough shims for all my hives yet). 

24lb sugar 2 cups of water and a pinch of vits and electrolytes from the feed store. No vinegar this year. Pressed flat with a spatula, made cut marks for breaking. Took <30 min to make 24 lbs.


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## SwedeBee1970 (Oct 26, 2008)

Good post, FlowerPlanter.

I'll have to throw my bricks away and start over. The oven was on about 170 for 3 hours with little results. Turned to 250 and started to smoke. At that point, must have melted. Toxic. 

Will make another batch with no ACV.

Thanks for the intel.


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## Andy_K (Sep 5, 2015)

This subject really interests me.
I would rather not buy a dehydrator but I will if I need to.
I'm just getting to much crap in my kitchen.
I make some of the best jerky ever and only use a regular gas oven with a spoon as a door stop that keeps the door cracked open just about a half inch or so and keep the temp at the lowest setting.
I use that with long cook times and it works really well.
Can that replicate a dehydrator?
It does on jerky and I make good jerky
If I need to buy a dehydrator what do I need to buy?
Is there like a Walmart item that would work best?
Thanks.
Andy


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## SwedeBee1970 (Oct 26, 2008)

Got the ovens installed today with great success. Sugar blocks turned out nice too. &#55357;&#56832;


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## bodosom (Dec 4, 2010)

FlowerPlanter said:


> ...
> Boiling sugar water = poisonous HMF's being created!
> ...
> Cooking also breaks down ...


With the number of beekeepers posting various fondant recipes involving temperatures in the soft to firm ball stages (235-245F) you'd think they'd notice poisoning all their bees.

By the way, if you want to put additives in home made invert sugar or fondant you do it after the syrup cools.


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## vdotmatrix (Apr 5, 2014)

an exothermic reaction? really?


Dave1958 said:


> I did the same, but added citric acid to break sugar down. I mixed and placed on hives( I wrapped it in newspaper, on bottom to keep totalling through, and top to keep it from sticking to inner cover. However, I had an open bag of sugar left so I made a few bricks. After I placed it in the tray I noticed it "bubbling", which is the sugar breaking down( I think). Usually chemical reaction produce heat. Hope that didn't give me a surprise later


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## vdotmatrix (Apr 5, 2014)

We are either making SUCROSE bricks or Bee fondant. 

The bee fondant is made by heating a slightly acidified sugar solution to 242 degrees. 

The sucrose ( sugar soln.) is inverted ( converted ) to fructose and glucose and eventually poured into molds or inner covers-the inverted sugar is easier for the bees to digest. 

The slightly acidic ph is easier on the bees digestive system and more closer to the ph of nectar...( sugars BTW are chemically acidic ). 

If you COOK a sugar solution beyond the prescribed temperature you'll end up with diamonds when this stuff cools. If you vigorously heat the solution during the process and "caramelize" the sugar then YES, you can form HMF; but you really have to try to form this compound by not paying attention to what you are doing.

I am here because I recently made 10 pounds of industrial GUM when making my yearly bee fondant....I may have added too much corn syrup and not heated it accurately-battery was weak on our candy thermometer. UGGGGGGGG



FlowerPlanter said:


> >25lb sugar mixed with 1qt cider vinegar. mixed so the mix if very dry. Place in food dehydrator for a couple days or in the oven set as low as your oven goes. Place spacer rim on top of brood chamber then place sugar bricks on top.
> 
> Sounds like a lot of water. 1/3 cup water per 4 lb of sugar does the trick. Be carful with the additives ACV does have solids, and some say it hard on bees. I would just use a splash if any, and the rest water. If you use it inside all that acidic acid in the air is not good for you.
> 
> ...


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## vdotmatrix (Apr 5, 2014)

bodosom said:


> With the number of beekeepers posting various fondant recipes involving temperatures in the soft to firm ball stages (235-245F) you'd think they'd notice poisoning all their bees.
> 
> By the way, if you want to put additives in home made invert sugar or fondant you do it after the syrup cools.



You don't because they are not carmelizing the soln.; I've made fondant every year and had 100% overwintering.


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## orthoman (Feb 23, 2013)

SwedeBee1970 said:


> Good post, FlowerPlanter.
> 
> I'll have to throw my bricks away and start over. The oven was on about 170 for 3 hours with little results. Turned to 250 and started to smoke. At that point, must have melted. Toxic.
> 
> ...


I also put mine in the oven at 170 degrees (lowest temp. it would go) thinking it would dry out faster -- but it didn't. Started to melt down and 6 days later, it is a gummy sticky mess. I am also going to dump it on a stump in the back lot and let the bees find it and use it when they can (open feeding style). In the mean time I'll need to make some more but this time I'll let it air dry.


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## vdotmatrix (Apr 5, 2014)

Clarence Collison gave a presentation 2 months ago at our Bee association and I happened to find his slide show on nutrition!!!!
I think it is slide 31......


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

>I am here because I recently made 10 pounds of industrial GUM when making my yearly bee fondant....

Time after time new beek will boggle their fondant sugar candy recipe, it happens every year, your thread is no less than the tenth one this fall.


By cooking your sugar in the oven or dehydrator you *ARE creating HMFs.* (Beesource glossary definition of HMF; (Hydroxymethylfurfural): an organic compound derived from dehydration of sugars).  How much you create is dependent on temperature, duration and ingredients. "Acid conditions favor generation of HMF". 

Where the line is for safe HMFs for bees and bad for bee health I do not know nor do I wish anyone to find out. If a lot kills a hives (and it does kill bees) than what does a little do?

There is a better way and it's simple and it *will* save you time and money. Don't cook/dehydrate your sugar.


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## vdotmatrix (Apr 5, 2014)

Even the best cooks have a souffle fall, I am not a new beek LOL....I disagree with your post but that's ok.....if Clarance says it is ok, i should say it trumps any post here. Cheers



FlowerPlanter said:


> >I am here because I recently made 10 pounds of industrial GUM when making my yearly bee fondant....
> 
> Time after time new beek will boggle their fondant sugar candy recipe, it happens every year, your thread is no less than the tenth one this fall.
> 
> ...


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## dudelt (Mar 18, 2013)

I made some sugar bricks over the weekend and did my best to reduce down Lauri's recipe to 5 Lbs. of sugar. I used about 3/4 cup of the apple cider vinegar. Worked like a charm. Pressed it down into metal pans from the toaster ovens I have owned over the years and put in the dehydrator at 110 degrees for 3 hours and then air dried for a day. They took less than 15 minutes to make and they are hard as rocks. This method is MUCH easier than fondant. I have air dried them in the past without the dehydrator and never had any issues.


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## vdotmatrix (Apr 5, 2014)

Success! I don't think I heated it up aggressively enough yesterday...there has to be enough energy going in to make this thing go....
Thanks to everyone!


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

2 cups of water in 10 lbs of sugar, stir to mix. Ladle onto newspaper on the top bars of the hives and mash down to fit shim (or even an inner cover with a large rim). Close up hive.

Makes a sticky mess and the bees are all over it in warm weather, depending on the bees (one hive is much more active than the others, always has bees up on the candy and under the outer cover no matter the temp).

Don't over-think this. What you need is sugar stuck together enough the bees will eat the syrup off the surface rather than dragging it out as trash, nothing more. 

It is far better to have adequate stores, and I made sure all mine were very heavy going into winter after the last two. Naturally, we have a major El Nino going, so it's wasted effort, but they get sugar anyway. Vastly cheaper than bees to replace deadouts because they starved in early March.

Peter


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## vdotmatrix (Apr 5, 2014)

I went in yesterday and they had already polished off the fondant I added.....so I am adding another disc to all the hives and some Bee-zilla. My bees are bringing in loads of pollen still-some pale yellow pollen and just a tiny bit of cheetos colored pollen. This fondant I make in the paper plates are neat , convenient and store easily.....BTW, I was curious about seeing the bees on the top the other day and pulled a couple frames off the top box and they were solid stores so hopefully these greedy little PIGS have been munching out on all the stuff they were over-fed earlier in the late fall.....70 degrees on christmas day in the commonwealth!


psfred said:


> 2 cups of water in 10 lbs of sugar, stir to mix. Ladle onto newspaper on the top bars of the hives and mash down to fit shim (or even an inner cover with a large rim). Close up hive.
> 
> Makes a sticky mess and the bees are all over it in warm weather, depending on the bees (one hive is much more active than the others, always has bees up on the candy and under the outer cover no matter the temp).
> 
> ...


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## vdotmatrix (Apr 5, 2014)

70 degrees in the commonwealth!


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## SAS (Sep 4, 2015)

vdotmatrix said:


> 70 degrees on christmas day in the commonwealth!


Wow!! 70's on Christmas day, must be nice. It's snowing and in the upper 20's at my house, got between 4 to 6 inches of new snow since last night.

Enjoy the warm weather, and Merry Christmas!!


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## vdotmatrix (Apr 5, 2014)

I'd rather be skiing in Summit country or climbing in Ouray....too warm here man...it is actually humid....it is raining right now...I went out there to add another fondant disc and the bees were hanging out in the top of the hive, I guess in the thermal column....i hate a winter like this because I suppose they are eating their stores even though they are still bringing in pollen......HNY man!


SAS said:


> Wow!! 70's on Christmas day, must be nice. It's snowing and in the upper 20's at my house, got between 4 to 6 inches of new snow since last night.
> 
> Enjoy the warm weather, and Merry Christmas!!


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

The reason for the gummy mess is that the sugar is
too wet. You either reduced the water or vinegar, or use the
air dry method. With dryer sugar the oven method works just fine.
Now you know the secret!


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## vdotmatrix (Apr 5, 2014)

It must have been that I didn't drive the water off fast enough because the batch I made the very next day turned out as it usually does...PERFECT.....The industrial GUM I stacked up and placed in a tall kitchen garbage bag and placed it in the garbage, but the day before garbage day I had second thoughts and retrieved it an as if by magic 80% , that's 8 plates/ 8 pounds out of 10 were solid usable fondant.I am not going to change anything in this recipe except heat it just a little more vigorously in the beginning AND maybe reduce the water just a tad...the water allows the mixture to remain at a transition temperature to give it time to invert the sugar and that is what "I" am mostly concerned with.......GO FIGURE.....My fondant is acting like my bees.......thanks everyone.


beepro said:


> The reason for the gummy mess is that the sugar is
> too wet. You either reduced the water or vinegar, or use the
> air dry method. With dryer sugar the oven method works just fine.
> Now you know the secret!


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## vdotmatrix (Apr 5, 2014)

Winter Feeding from Dr. Collison at our Bee Club


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

I have perfected Lauri's sugar bricks down to an art.
See it here at http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?320307-Lauri-s-bricks-down-to-an-Art!
As the bees are still clustering in the snow country mine are slowly brooding up nicely on these rainy days.
So the demand for sugar is high at this time for feeding the new broods. I also put in some mega bee subs to feed them.
You no longer need to cook for the fondant anymore. Lauri's bricks will take care of them fine through out the
winter months. This is my second season in using them with good result. The major advantage is that these 
bricks will absorb some moisture inside the hive. Easy to make and the bees like them too.


More pics:


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## vdotmatrix (Apr 5, 2014)

OKAY I am sick of cooking fondant and will switch to the easy bake oven when I get back


beepro said:


> I have perfected Lauri's sugar bricks down to an art.
> See it here at http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?320307-Lauri-s-bricks-down-to-an-Art!
> As the bees are still clustering in the snow country mine are slowly brooding up nicely on these rainy days.
> So the demand for sugar is high at this time for feeding the new broods. I also put in some mega bee subs to feed them.
> ...


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## farmer0298 (Jan 22, 2016)

Would the sugar bricks be better than sugar candy(sugar and corn syrup)? Im wanting to make one i jus dont knw which one would be best.


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## Fishmaster50 (Apr 30, 2015)

Someone told me they put marshmallows on their hives in the winter. Anyone else hear of this?


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

You will find your answer here
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?320307-Lauri-s-bricks-down-to-an-Art!/page2


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

Want more sugar block details?

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?320581-Sugar-block-bread-or-Beez-MRE-Z


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