# box joint w/router ?



## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

Hi,
I just figured out that my Delta Bench table saw will only take a 1/2" Daddo blade. I had hoped to use box joints to build mediums out of some low quality pine (white?) I picked up, 150 ft. I was wondering what my options are. I also have a router with table. Can this be used? would 1/2" joints work? 

Thanks


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

I'm also considering buying a better table saw and could use some recomendations. I would like a good one that I could use for furniture building and such, but I don't see me getting around to using it for that purpose for a few years now, so I'm kind of reluctant to buy one. I'm looking at something in between a HarborFreight "Central Machinery" saw $350 http://www.harborfreight.com/ or a Craftsman Professional 10 in. Table Saw www.sears.com $949. I'll have a real hard time swallowing the high end. Hard to justify if only building bee hives the next few years. Furniture designs will be "rustic" either way.

The craftsman one, has a table extension with tracks behind the saw blade. Can one of these be built with wood into a table? I would like to build a table around the table sawn but can't recall the one I've seen if it had tracks that kept going. 

Is 220V important for a long lived saw?

What are some good ones, and what should I look for? Read some very poor reviews of Delta saws on Amazon.com.

What should one look for in used table saws? Have daddo blades been around long enough for old ones to be able to use a dadoo?

[ February 03, 2006, 07:23 PM: Message edited by: MichaelW ]


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## bleakley (Jun 13, 2004)

Michael,

Half inch finger joints will work fine. But, you would have to use 1/2" thick stock.

I prefer using joints made by circular saw to those made by a router and jig. I find the router and jig approach to be more time consuming and cumbersome. I think you will too.

An older table saw will work with dado blades. You just need to be sure the hole in the blade matches the saw's arbor.

[ February 04, 2006, 09:23 AM: Message edited by: bleakley ]


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## The Honey House (May 10, 2000)

See this. 
I have one of the older models.
I set one side up for the fronts and the other side up for the sides. Works Great!!!









http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=5398&refcode=05INFROO


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## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

I have a 10" Delta

http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/diy_main/pg_diy.jsp?CNTTYPE=PROD_META&CNTKEY=misc%2fsearchResults.jsp&[email protected]@@@[email protected]@@@&BV_EngineID=cchgaddglmjh ddgcgelceffdfgidglo.0&MID=9876

wow, I just went and found that link
it cost double what I paid for mine 7~8 years ago
I'm happy with it
I'm not building fine furniture, it does what I want to do

Dave


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## SilverFox (Apr 25, 2003)

I use a "stacking dado" with my table saw. The saw I use is a Roybi 10", it appears to be a decent brand, their are others that are more costly, but I'm not a professional woodworker and can't justify the cost.
But, don't get the "wobble dado" man-o-man does it vibrate. The stacking dado I use I got from Harbor Freight ran around $45.00.
Never tried the router jig for finger joints.
Check the sales adds at hardware stores and used equipment, IMHO, get what suits your needs and wallet. The only reason I got a new saw was the deal that I got and the rebates/accessories that came with it.


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## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

the ryobi stuff looks nice
is it all aluminum?
I bought the delta cause I wanted the cast iron but in retrospect I think I'd rather have aluminum
occationally you want to move stuff and cast iron is awfull heavy

Dave

oh yea, I have a "wobble dado" I'll sell ya for about a nickle









[ February 03, 2006, 09:44 PM: Message edited by: drobbins ]


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## SilverFox (Apr 25, 2003)

droobins: That is about a nickle more than I'd give you for it.  
The roybi is aluminum, it's a fair table saw for what I use it for. Like I said, tho, I'm no professional, and for general work it may suit your needs.


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## RAlex (Aug 18, 2001)

I am using a Craftsman 10" table saw w/dado blades ( 3/4" ) stackers to do my finger joints. I built a jig to go on my guide. I didnt realize that I had about .030 play in the groove on my table so theoretically I can be up .120/ 1/8" mismatch on ends. I have done two complete mediums in a day using finger joints . I have also done 10 a day using rabbeted ends with less end matching problems. ...G`Luck Rick Alexander


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## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

> oh yea, I have a "wobble dado" I'll sell ya for 
> about a nickle

I've used such a gizmo for years, bought it from
Sears. One twists the thing to adjust the amount
of wobble, and if (_and *only* if_) one
tapes down the twisty part with some duct tape,
it does the job well.

The problem is consistently setting it to the same
amount of wobble, and hence cut width, but this
is easy to do with calipers or by marking the
tool with a scribe mark.

The good news is that it is a carbide blade.
Sure, a "stacked" set of blades is easier to
use, but some folks have cost considerations.


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## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

I've just never been able to get a nice smooth cut with one
plus it looks like it's about to fly apart  
in all honesty I do get some use out of it
I built some hive stands from pressure treated stock that had some lap joints
very crude, just hogging material to make the joint
the wobble thingy worked well for that since it didn't need to be accurate, plus it saved wear and tear on my niced dado set

Dave


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## snoopybee (Dec 21, 2005)

To me, one of the more important features on a table saw is the fence. It's very frustrating if one cannot easily adhust the fence, or if it refuses to stay parrallel with the saw. (a problem with the roybi I had)


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

The problem I have w/ a wobble dado, is the fact that they do not produce a "flat" bottom in the cut (wider the cut, worse the problem). Doesnt look good on a million-dollar cabinet









Has any one thought about creating a jig that would guide a router? You could cut several pcs at a time, they would all be EXACTLY alike. Maybe a bit safer


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## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

DaveW

I think that's what this is

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=42821

Dave


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

Bleakley, did you add the part about using 1/2" stock? I would think the thickness of the stock wouldn't matter, you would just still cut the notch 3/4" deep but 1/2" wide. Correct? I know I've seen oak furniture with very thin finger/box joints. I was just unsure if weak pine could handle 1/2" instead of 3/4" but the more I consider it, it should work.

harbor freight's stacking daddos are now at $40. 
Nothern Tool and supply's is $45 and goes up to 1". Both carbon tipped.

I'll likely stick with the delta bench saw I have this year if 1/2" finger joints will work, and keep an eye out for a nice used saw.

I wouldn't recommend the delta bench saw. It is just cheap, but I do like the iron table. The one I have is now $117 at home depot without the stand or side table extension. Dave, I'm thinking you have a different one unless you paid $58?
It would well be worth the money to buy the $350 dollar range saws that are avaliable instead if someone is looking to buy one. But hey it works and was easy to move in and out of some of the places I've stored it over the years.

[ February 04, 2006, 03:49 PM: Message edited by: MichaelW ]


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## peggjam (Mar 4, 2005)

"Half inch finger joints will work fine. But, you would have to use 1/2" thick stock."


Why?????????

If you have a use for a really good table saw, and you can afford it, that is what you should buy. I bought a "cheap" sears 10" tablesaw that I wish I hadn't wasted my money on. I have looked at the saws that Grizzly has and they seem to be nicer saws, but very pricey. Whatever you buy, buy the nicest one you can afford, because you will find uses for it if you like it....if you don't like it, it'll just sit there collecting dust.


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## BerkeyDavid (Jan 29, 2004)

Hi all. My table saw is an old delta contractor's saw i bought used for $350. I have had it about 15 years, upgraded the motor to a 2 hp 220 motor, (uses less amps), upgraded the fence (spent more on the fence than on the saw.

Right now I would say the best buy for a new saw would be the grizzly contractor saw.

Grizzly table saws 

agree the wobble dados are worthless. 

If you get another table saw you can set up your new one with the dado and then use your bench top for cuts.

A good table saw is really the heart of your shop.

But you can also make really nice box joints with a router and a good jig. I have built three cherry blanket chests, one with the router jig and two with the table saw and a good jig.

THe key is fine tuning your jig IMO. If you get the jig right, either method will work.

[ February 04, 2006, 06:01 PM: Message edited by: BerkeyDavid ]


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## kamerrill (Sep 17, 2003)

I agree... bang for your buck - Grizzly.

Craftsman power tools used to be excellent when Emerson made them. Many of their power tools (e.g., jointers, table saws) used to be made by US companies like King Seeley. I have a little 4" (circa 1950's) craftsman/King Seeley jointer that I use quite a bit when I don't need to fire-up my grizzly 6". Now Craftsman is almost all imported from companies like Yung Li Hsing Electric Works CO., LTD ("Elephant") based in Taiwan, although, I am not sure if they work with them currently. Two or three years ago craftsman bandsaws were "elephant" but since that time they have gone through a "re-design" meaning they switched companies.

Emerson now makes a lot of the Rigid power tools for Home Depot - well made and has the best warranty in the game.

My (almost) entire woodshop is from Grizzly. They are the best of the oversees importers in terms of their price vs quality (in my opinion). Their quality control is very good.


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## BusyBee (Nov 30, 2003)

All of the major power tools in my shop are Rigid brand from Home Depot. I love them all but have had a few minor problems with the fence staying parallel on my table saw. All in all, I think I got my money's worth with them.


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## snoopybee (Dec 21, 2005)

The 1/2 inch dado will work fine. The depth of the dado is controlled by the thickness of the stock. The width can be whatever turns you on. one half inch will give you plenty of strength.

Ray


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## thorbue (Dec 22, 2005)

Guessing that your mind is set for finger joints, I would consider making a rebate joint, when using a tablesaw

Check this link, if you don't know what I mean (the text is german, but the drawing is understood by everyone).
http://www.magazinimker.de/kompatiblebeuten/langstrothbeutensystem/langstrothbeutensystem.php4

Thor


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

Thor,
My mind is never set, thats a problem sometimes.

Is that a rabbit joint without the locking rabbit? The picture looks like it dosent have the "lock"
Here's a rabbit joint

I've made my boxes up until now with a rabbit joint, but without the lock part just like what looks like in the picture you provided. Its very easy with a table saw or router. My boxes have held up fine for 5 years and I have actually moved them quite a bit for a hobby beekeeper. However, I think another type of joint will do better over the long haul. 

I decided to use finger joints instead of true rabbit joints because the lumber I bought is very low quality and think the box joints will work best. Here in the states we will make lumber out of any old sticks. The benifit to poor quality is getting 1 X 8s for 60 cents a foot. But thats about as far as the benifits go. Well, except for the auger hole entrances that come "included" with this lumber


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## Tom H (Oct 24, 2004)

I recommend the Grizzly table saw with Left hand tilt. You will find it is much safer to use when cutting stock at an angle. The small pieces don't get wedged between the sawblade and tablt top and then thrown back at you! $515 is not too much to pay for this good quality saw. Plus it comes with a very good fence.


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

looks like a nice machine,

Whats the advantage of 220 volts, Im guessing Power to keep spinning fast?
How about mutliple phases?

[ February 05, 2006, 09:09 PM: Message edited by: MichaelW ]


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## bee crazy (Oct 6, 2005)

Gosh MichaelW
Too bad your not near me. I have that Harbor Freight 10" saw you noted in your post. I rescued it from a guy in a divorce. It had never been used, I had to finish putting it together. I would let you have it for $150. The weakest part is the fence...it'll work but won't hold paralell very good but for building hives would be a goodie. Buy only a good quality stacked dado set. Expect to pay at least $90.00 Frued is a good name for these. You will get years of use if you have it professionally sharpened once they dull. Good luck


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## thorbue (Dec 22, 2005)

MicharlW
"My mind is never set, thats a problem sometimes." Yes! Planning, thinking and planning it all over again can be exhausting javascript









The rebate on the drawings is made without a lock. I've been using these too, and they hold quite well - but not against everything...
My next batch will be made with dovetails in a jig for a handheld router. Then we will se how that turns out.

"Here in the states we will make lumber out of any old sticks. The benifit to poor quality is getting 1 X 8s for 60 cents a foot."
I'm not sure, you have seen poor lumber as long as yuo havn't visited my country. 1 x 8 would be hard to find here, and the price would at least be around 1$ a foot...
Poor and cheap quality ,around 0,60 a foot, would be 1 x 4 "Warping Pine" herejavascript 

[ February 06, 2006, 02:36 AM: Message edited by: thorbue ]


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## scsasdsa (Jan 23, 2004)

I work construction and have been using the rigid portable saw that comes on a stand with wheels and it works well for just about anything and is light enough to be moved up and down stairs by one person using the wheeled stand like a dolly. folds down to be loaded into vehicle.motor starts slow but has plenty of power to rip 2X's. fence is simple but holds where you lock it and mitre works well and can be zeroed with adjusting screws. available @ homedepot for aronnd $400.
no cast iron table to rust if it gets wet. if the table insert wont accept a wide dado remove insert and make a wooden one, start the saw and slowly raise the blade through the new wooden insert and you have a zero tolerance insert.


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## BerkeyDavid (Jan 29, 2004)

Michael: Advantage of 220 volts is that it takes 1/2 of the amps of 110. So your wire / breaker doesn't have to be as big. I have rewired almost all of my tools to 220. But you have to have your shop wired for it. Theoretically it might also increase life of your motor since it is running cooler? not sure.

I have a Freud stacked dado. Very good investment. Another problem with the wobble dado is that the bottom of the groove is not flat. Most beekeeping blades ought to last a very long time since you are cutting soft woods mostly such as pine.


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## BerkeyDavid (Jan 29, 2004)

Here is a picture of the type of box joint jig you can build for your dado. Probably all of you already have one or more. box joint jig for table saw 

Mine runs in both guide slots more like this.better box joint jig for table saws. 

I couldn't find a good link for a picture of the router box joint jig. Itwas in a woodworking magazine about 10 years ago. It mounts right on the work piece. I think it would be possible to get some serious production out of it if you modified it for supers.

[ February 06, 2006, 07:52 AM: Message edited by: BerkeyDavid ]


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## bleakley (Jun 13, 2004)

MichaelW,

Sorry to be a while answering, just now recovering from my Super Bowl disappointment.

Yup, I edited my earlier post to add the part about the 1/2" stock. Should have left it like it was initially.









Snoopybee is correct, the depth of the cut is determined by the thickness of the stock choosen.

Apologies for throwing you off.


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## Alex Cantacuzene (May 29, 2003)

Hi Thor et al, when using the router for making dove-tails, make sure that you check for squareness occasionally when clamping the boards in the jig. Also, the distance from the router base to the cutting point of the bit is critical. Occasionally check that the chuck holding the router bit is tight and clean in the little slots to make sure it runs true and cannot loosen up. I run a couple test boards first to check the assembly tightness. A difference in board thickness can give problems also. Once set up I can run a lot of boards for hive boxes, feeders, or even bottom boards in a relatively short time. In order to keep as much saw dust out of the shop and weather permitting, I make a set-up on some saw horses on the lawn, no sweeping up etc. Take care and have fun


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## jaydee (Oct 12, 2004)

Check out www.exfactory.com for used saws. This is mostly large commercial equipment but sometimes has table saws listed cheap. I like the tablesaws with sliding tables. Makes for an easier cut not having to slide the wood. I also wax my table saws to make the wood slide easier.


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## thorbue (Dec 22, 2005)

Alex
Thanks for the hints...

---
Thor


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