# Do bees swarm in the fall?



## BeekeeperJoy (Sep 4, 2010)

Just lost my hive. Very depressed. However, my neighbor said his house is being inundated with lot of the wild bees that robbed my hive and that sometimes they form a golf ball size ball of bees on his deck. Should we grab that and put that in our hive? Is this the wrong time of the year to even bother?

I am still learning, first year at beekeeping, and would like to know any insights.

Thanks
Joy


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## Grant (Jun 12, 2004)

You could, but it would end up being an "educational" experience.

We get a few of these golf-ball to orange-sized swarms in the early fall. Some are as big a grapefruits. I presume they are old queens kicked out and superseded by new queens. All the little balls of bees I've shaken off shrubs have had queens. Missouri is just too cold to sustain these swarms. 

In my early days, I tried to keep them in nuc boxes. These days, the Small Hive Beetles descend pretty fast and the swarm doesn't do anything but maintain itself before it either absconds or dies out. If you try and feed them, or give them frames of honey from another hive, close off all the entrances, put a wire mesh or a ventilated cover over the top or you'll just invite robbing. 

Yep, been there, done that.

What's really hard is when people call that they have this swarm in their yard and I'm supposed to come out and save them. Sometimes I'm not sure if I'm saving the bees or the people. When I decline, trying to explain in the most general terms that this swarm is useless, I get the most abusive responses on how bees are dying and I should be trying to save these bees.

I tell them to call someone else, who in turn calls me and asks, "Grant, how do I go about saving these bees?"

Now maybe in California it might work. I'd encourage you to continue your education and bring them home. But don't get your hopes too high.

Grant
Jackson, MO http://maxhoney.homestead.com


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## BeekeeperJoy (Sep 4, 2010)

Seems to be a continual learning experience.. Sigh.

do you have a website that isn't a marketing site? I distrust these types of sites... No offense to you, but these things are all identical. makes me nervous when I visit them in terms of malware and the like. It's not YOU I'm worried about, it's the company that puts these together. Everytime I've been on one of these sites I've had to spend hours clearing my computer of malware and adware. One time I had to spend $169 to clean my computer up. I don't trust these things and neither should you.


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## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

Have you tried my web sites? Do you have any virus or malware protection software? Microsoft Defender is free.
americasbeekeeper.com
americasbeekeeper.org


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## bigbearomaha (Sep 3, 2009)

It's not always going to have malware etc.. just because it's a commercial site.

I build all my websites personally. bbe-tech.com is my bee related website for example.

there are security apps for windows that can be installed or, personally, I just use Linux and I don't have those problems.

colonies can and have been known to swarm or even abscond in the fall, usually to their own demise.

Sometimes, there's not much we can do to 'help' them in those situations.

many times, it's just natural selection eliminating genetics that are too swarmy for their own good. That group won't be breeding again, that's for certain.


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

Most people simply thank Grant for his insights.

Wayne


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## BeekeeperJoy (Sep 4, 2010)

Americas Beekeeper
ok went to your site... 

it's white and blue... nice link page. Thanks


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## BeekeeperJoy (Sep 4, 2010)

I appreciate his insights, so thank you, Grant.


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## BeekeeperJoy (Sep 4, 2010)

oh this had nothing to do with them being too crowded. they were weak. we had numerous problems.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

As often happens here in Tucson, our late Summer through Winter dearth seems to inspire lots of absconding behavior from weaker colonies, especially if they become the focus of robbing by the other colonies round about.

I have already witnessed two or three of my mating nucs abscond. It is sad, since I know they won't have any better luck where they are going than they would have if they'd have stayed put (I would keep providing them enough feed to maintain them).

I hope for Autumn and Winter rains, which usually reverses this trend.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

Here is something to think about:
http://cyberbee.net/Archive/bplus/pdf/bplus23.pdf

FALL DIE-OFF (ABSCONDING?) OF BEES
In what could be an important new twist with the mites is that many colonies of bees have
come up missing their bees this past September and October. Some beekeepers have lost whole
apiaries (40 out of 40 colonies) to this phenomenon. Most of the colonies had all of the honey still
in the supers (for somewhat of a blessing), and some still had brood left when the bees absconded.
It has been a little difficult to do a post mortem on these colonies since there were no bees left. In
some cases there were bees in other colonies in the apiary and these bees had both mites. In other
cases we found dead varroa on the bottom boards when the beekeeper did not realize that he had
these mites. So the common thread within these apiaries seems to be the presence of both mites at
the same time. The absconding behavior may have been triggered by the varroa and the tracheal
mites the actual cause of the bees leaving the hive. In the past couple of winters, tracheal mites
seem to have been the major cause for the fact that there were no bees left in the hive. The shifting
of this behavior to an earlier (dearth?) time could be the result of the varroa mites. With the two
mites active at the same time, we may be experiencing a new problem. Beekeepers in Europe
basically do not have tracheal mites, so they only have to be concerned with the varroa problem.
The tracheal mites are present in Europe, but in such low numbers as to not be important. We may
have to be especially careful to fully control the varroa mites as long as we have high populations
of the tracheal mite present in the colonies.

Regards,
Ernie


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

I caught a couple in Mid Oct. One was queenless. They are both in 5 frame nucs & doing well. 2 of our hives raised queens in the end of Oct. that are fertile. Most of our drones are gone now.

You're weather is almost the same as mine. Put them in a nuc box with a feeder, & see what happens.


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