# Oxalic drizzle in winter



## funwithbees (Mar 27, 2010)

we are finishing up the last few yards doing OA drizzle now. We run the same amount of frames in the top and bottom of a double and just drizzle the OA with a big syringe between the frames in the top box-gets the entire cluster without the effort of splitting the boxes. no brood now. very effective treatment.
Nick
gridleyhollow.com


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## B&E (Dec 27, 2011)

thanks! My concern is missing the cluster in the bottom if you can't see where it is from the top. Should I worry about that? just guess?


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## funwithbees (Mar 27, 2010)

I drizzle 5 ml per seam of bees( on the bees) if I can see them, 5 ml per space between the frames if I don't know exactly where they are. It might waste a little that just runs onto the bottom board, but much more efficient than splitting boxes. Its worked well this way for 10+ years . We also use formic after the summer harvest in late july /early august. This cleans up most of the mites and goes quite fast.
Nick
gridleyhollow.com


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## dgl1948 (Oct 5, 2005)

We used the drizzle for a couple of years, then switched to vapour. We have found it much more effective. Our winter losses dropped from 25 to 30 percent to the 12 to 15 percent range. We also winter outside so it lets us treat without unwrapping. It fills the hive from top to bottom with tiny crystals and can be done without opening the hive. The only disadvantage is it is time consuming.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

What temperature range can you vaporize the hives? My bees are wrapped. THANKS.


dgl1948 said:


> We used the drizzle for a couple of years, then switched to vapour. We have found it much more effective. Our winter losses dropped from 25 to 30 percent to the 12 to 15 percent range. We also winter outside so it lets us treat without unwrapping. It fills the hive from top to bottom with tiny crystals and can be done without opening the hive. The only disadvantage is it is time consuming.


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## chillardbee (May 26, 2005)

back in the early 90's, Formic acid was originally registered for use to control trecheal mites. shortly after the varroa showed up here we were using apistan. I remember after treating twice for trecheal I still had sticky boards on them and after 48 of each treatment there was'nt much of a mite drop so we thought we mite be in the good but after putting the apistan in, 24 hours later, the boards were red.

I wouldn't use formic as a sole treatment is what I'm trying to say, particularly when other treatments are out there that work better.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Vance G said:


> What temperature range can you vaporize the hives? My bees are wrapped. THANKS.


You can vaporize when the temps are 37f or above.


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## WWW (Feb 6, 2011)

Just a personal preference of mine but in late November I like to apply OAV when the temperature is between 45 and 50 degrees, the cluster isn't as tight at this warmer temperature allowing the OA to circulate better through the cluster of bees, however as snl has stated anywhere above 37f will do. In my schedule I apply OAV four times in August and one time at the end of November. 

One of the reasons I never used OA dribble is that if it is applied only one time in early winter the virus damage has already occurred, unless of course you have already done an earlier application during August or September in which case the early winter application would be effective. With my three deep brood nest hives OAV is much simpler and easier to administer.


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## dgl1948 (Oct 5, 2005)

Vance G said:


> What temperature range can you vaporize the hives? My bees are wrapped. THANKS.


We do our bees in late Oct and early Nov. As far as temperature it can be as cold as you can stand. Our temps are usually in the minus range. Main thing is to leave the hives until there is no brood before treating.


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## B&E (Dec 27, 2011)

Dgl? What unit do you use? I'm going to try vaporizing one yard. Where can I one?


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

B&E said:


> Where can I get? one?


If you're looking for the Varrox Vaporizer, go to biovet.ch. There is a listing of dealers by country and of course Canada has one.......


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

5000 hives? Pop lids and a few pump up sprayers is the only way you are going to get it done. No way are the little hobby 1 hive battery powered thingys gonna get it done !


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

loggermike said:


> 5000 hives? Pop lids and a few pump up sprayers is the only way you are going to get it done. No way are the little hobby 1 hive battery powered thingys gonna get it done !


Totally agree.........


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## B&E (Dec 27, 2011)

loggermike said:


> 5000 hives? Pop lids and a few pump up sprayers is the only way you are going to get it done. No way are the little hobby 1 hive battery powered thingys gonna get it done !


I love this idea and had considered it...we got 1500 done in day one but it was with 8 guys. So if I do it with a sprayer...

-can I over apply the OA? Can it do damage?

- I know this is done in conditions where the bees are loose, but would it be ok to spray them if they're clustered? How much do you give them?


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## WWW (Feb 6, 2011)

loggermike said:


> 5000 hives? Pop lids and a few pump up sprayers is the only way you are going to get it done. No way are the little hobby 1 hive battery powered thingys gonna get it done !


You are correct of course, there is a big difference between hobby beekeeping and commercial.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

What funwithbees said. For details of the pump up sprayer use , check out Randy Olivers website. Its not an exact science, but there seems to be some leeway in dosing. Just try to get it as close as possible to 5 ml( a teaspoon full) per seam.Trickling is done in northern Europe in the dead of winter , so clustered bees are the norm.
I agree that vaporizing would be ideal (not having to open the hives) but the jury is still out on a fast way to do a lot of hives and get the mite kill required.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Hey SNL, when are you going to get a dealership for the hot air gun vaporizers sold in Europe


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## LoneWolf (Feb 25, 2014)

loggermike said:


> Hey SNL, when are you going to get a dealership for the hot air gun vaporizers sold in Europe


Ditto.


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## dgl1948 (Oct 5, 2005)

B&E said:


> Dgl? What unit do you use? I'm going to try vaporizing one yard. Where can I one?


Check Beemaid honey in Winnipeg. We are using 4 at a time on about 500 hives. We are looking at a unit that will work on a commercial basis right now. It is run off a generator and air compressor and would let you do several hundred in a day.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

For you commercial guys, try this ....

http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/articles/DewitEvaporator.htm


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

B&E said:


> -can I over apply the OA? Can it do damage?
> 
> - I know this is done in conditions where the bees are loose, but would it be ok to spray them if they're clustered? How much do you give them?


It is better to spray/dripple if they are clustered. You can do damage. It is important to stick to the 50ml per hive. It is hard on the bees exoskeletons/carapace. the same bees shouldn't be treated more than once.

http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/oxalicdribble.html

http://scientificbeekeeping.com/oxalic-acid-questions-answers-and-more-questions-part-1-of-2-parts/


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## pmshoney (Dec 30, 2014)

Oxalic acid, ok I know this is not an approved treatment in the USA so this question goes out to all the non-USA bee keepers here. I would like to be ready and know how to use Oxalic acid as the dribble or drench method what ever you want to call it. I don't like the idea of the fume application way too easy to get a breath of that stuff. I am in nw pa or sw ny so we have snow in the winter months most say that you can treat with Oxalic acid in the winter but is this for our area temps getting bees wet I'm uneasy with? what temp is best to do this at and how much are you using, how well do you feel it works, what are the drawbacks? I also know this can be bought as wood bleach is it useable that way if so what is the formula? Again I am from the USA where to my knowledge I cant use it yet but I would like to learn how to use it so I know how it works best if it ever gets approved I also get a lot of people from all over asking me questions some from outside the USA even. and this may be a sensitive topic in your book so if you don't feel comfortable putting it in public view pls. PM me I would love to hear 1st hand from someone using it how they use it and how it works. Every other treatment we have ever used has been a one or 2 yr. learning curve finding out the product directions were less than good and after 3rd yr. they get changed to a way that actually works kind of better than there original instructions .


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

I follow this procedure:

http://www.ontariobee.com/sites/ontariobee.com/files/document/oxalic-acid-protocol.pdf


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

What are your temperature limits personally on doing the drizzle?


zhiv9 said:


> I follow this procedure:
> 
> http://www.ontariobee.com/sites/ontariobee.com/files/document/oxalic-acid-protocol.pdf


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## zhiv9 (Aug 3, 2012)

Vance G said:


> What are your temperature limits personally on doing the drizzle?


I haven't really given it a lot of thought. I treat with it as i wrap in early to mid November. You want the bees clustered without brood. At that time of year it is typically above 0 deg C (32F) and below 10 deg C(50F). Other beekeepers in this area treat and wrap into December. I don't think I would want to treat with it much below 0 deg C(32F).


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