# My bees are jerks.



## nscofer (Jul 2, 2018)

Hi bee friends, I'm seeking some advice because I've decided my bees are jerks. As I'm typing this my wife is nursing yet another sting on her face and a bee is trying to come in through the screen window and get her again, at least 50 - 60 feet away from the hive. Jerk. 

I will give more details below but to be brief, I "inherited" a hive when I bought my house in January in Southern California from the previous owners. We love our bees and have tried to give them the best care. But they are jerks.

My neighbors have come over angry that they have stung them and even their small children. 

We probably get stung once or twice a week while working in the yard. At first it was like, oh it's the day after an inspection, or I was in their flight path and they got stuck in my hair, or oh, we just mowed so they are agitated. But yesterday my wife was just sitting outside, about 50 feet from the hive, out of it's line of sight, and one just head butted her. So she calmly got up after it left to walk away and it came back and stung her. Happened again today. She stays very calm, doesn't swat, but they sting her anyway. Same with my mom when she was in town, despite being away from the hive. 

I used to sit by the hive and watch them come and go, and I didn't wear gloves my first couple of inspections and none of them bothered me. Now we sort of have to stay inside for extended periods of time when they start coming after us. 

Seeking some advice from anyone willing to give it. 

More details: 


My first inspection revealed that the top super was completely empty and there was a queen excluder. The top super is a deep and the bottom is a medium - didn't set it up this way, just how I inherited it. 
Someone from our local beekeeping association came over to help me do an inspection. Didn't notice any problems, but we didn't see any eggs (but we didn't spend much time looking), and we did notice lots of drones.
It has certainly been a lot warmer here, which may have them agitated. 
I have a source of water, a small dish with gravel, for them but they don't seem to use it, ordering a chicken waterer today

I can attach photos as well if anyone would find them helpful.


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## Richinbama (Jan 15, 2018)

Several issues that may cause this. 
Queenless, they get pissy when no queen.
Doesn't sound like they have any resources. Feed them some 1 to 1, or 2 to 1 sugar syrup.
If queenless, get them a mated queen. Deep box should be on bottom, then queen excluded, then honey super. 
Sounds like the guy from bee club didn't want to mess with it too much. A thorough inspection would have told yo all this and more. I'd ask someone more experienced, and really wants to help new beekeepers out. I'm fairly new keeper myself, and have lots to learn too. My advice is basic, and others will chime in soon. Those are the first things id look at though. Good luck.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

nscofer said:


> My neighbors have come over angry that they have stung them and even their small children.


I'd be angry too. Get rid of the bees.


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## nscofer (Jul 2, 2018)

Thanks for the info!

The person who helped me is coming back in a few weeks to help again with an inspection, and I am going to start attending our local meetings as well. 

I should add the top super is doing well now and filling up with honey. I believe the previous owner would just completely empty the supers when they got full.


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## nscofer (Jul 2, 2018)

beemandan said:


> I'd be angry too. Get rid of the bees.


First of all, go dawgs. Second of all, why do you say get rid of them? Don't think this situation is salvageable?


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

First off, the guy from the bee association was a waste of time, what's the point of doing a so called inspection if he doesn't even look for eggs or diagnose anything, and leave you none the wiser. Ask someone different.

Secondly, I agree with what Richinbama said about lack of resources and queenlessness can cause aggression. However a good strain of docile bees will not be as aggressive as you describe, even with these aggravating factors. I think you just have a nasty strain of bee, and should requeen with a queen from a reputable breeder who sells docile bees. As the progeny of the new queen take over and the old bees die off, the temperament of the hive will change.

But you can't just buy a queen and put it in. First you need the hive looked at properly by someone experienced to see if it has a normal queen at the moment, if it is queenless, if it has laying workers, or if it has a virgin queen. After that has been established, you can then take advice on the correct course of action to successfully introduce a decent queen into it.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

southern california is within the known range of africanized honey bees.

these are known to usurp or 'take over' hives from their european cousins.

plus, their drones can mate with european honey bee queens during mating resulting in more aggressive bees produced by the new queen.

i second rich's suggestion for trying to enlist the help of an experienced local beekeeper to assess the temperament of your hive. from what you are describing it sounds like the are indeed too 'jerky' to be in a neighborhood. 

if so, you might be able to requeen them from more 'docile' stock.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

nscofer said:


> First of all, go dawgs. Second of all, why do you say get rid of them? Don't think this situation is salvageable?


Go Dawgs....indeed! You already have multiple stings at your neighbor's, including small children. You can play with that hive from now til nevermore but unless you show them that you are genuinely concerned for their well being they will always be your enemy. When you live with neighbors nearby, in my opinion, you are obligated to be especially vigilant if you are keeping bees. Clearly missed the mark here. Time to show some concern for the people.


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## nscofer (Jul 2, 2018)

Thank you everyone for taking the time to reply. I appreciate the input, trying to get this worked out has been quite stressful. 

My neighbor just brought this to my attention a last week, after the club member helped me with the inspection. Before that we had no idea they were causing any issue. Again, we are new to the neighborhood. That's why I'm here, because I'm concerned for the neighbors, ourselves, and the bees that are pollinating the many fruit trees, flowers, and vegetable gardens in the neighborhood. 

I spoke with the neighbor briefly and listened to his concerns. He seemed understanding of the situation and I plan to do whatever I can to smooth things over with him. I'm certainly prepared to have them removed if they continue to be a problem, but I'd like to try to fix it before it comes to that. 

I will follow up with the local club and try to get someone to diagnose the queen situation properly and go from there.

Thank you everyone for your input! I appreciate everyone's willingness to help.


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## elmer_fud (Apr 21, 2018)

I am also thinking you need a new queen, your hive is missing the queen, or something else is going on.

Any chance you have access to somewhere remote that you can move this hive to for a few weeks until you get everything straightened out? Maybe ask the local bee club if someone has some space where you can move this hive until you get it straight. It is going to take more than a month to get any reasonable number of bees of a different temperament even if you requeen today so keep this in mind with any actions you take. 

Another semi random though, do you have any signs of raccoons or skunks causing problems with the hive. If you have critters bothering the hive on a regular basis it may cause the hive to get grumpy.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Not to belabor the point but should one of those jerk bees sting a neighbor who is truly allergic you may find yourself with a problem. You already have a legitimate complaint. Failure to address the issue in a timely fashion may put you in a risky spot. 
We are seeing any number of communities that are enacting bans or significant restrictions on beekeeping. These are often the result of incidents such as yours. 
I would strongly encourage you to get some beekeeping education and an experienced mentor before trying to keep bees in an urban or suburban setting. 
Good luck.


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## nscofer (Jul 2, 2018)

Yea, though it's not what I want to hear, I feel like maybe deep down that getting rid of them may be the best course of action - for now. At least until I can raise the bees on my terms. 

I'll keep everyone updated as to how this works out.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

nscofer said:


> Yea, though it's not what I want to hear, I feel like maybe deep down that getting rid of them may be the best course of action - for now. At least until I can raise the bees on my terms.
> 
> I'll keep everyone updated as to how this works out.


Been ranting already...
Before you even get bees in your back yard, first develop plan B (a remote location to move your bees for any reason - e.g. hotness).
Plan B does not need to be convenient.
Plan B does need to be remote and safe, however.
Don't even get your bees until you have this done - security is never convenient.


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## nscofer (Jul 2, 2018)

GregV said:


> Been ranting already...
> Before you even get bees in your back yard, first develop plan B (a remote location to move your bees for any reason - e.g. hotness).
> Plan B does not need to be convenient.
> Plan B does need to be remote and safe, however.
> Don't even get your bees until you have this done - security is never convenient.


Per my original thread, the bee hive came with the house, so I didn't have the convenience of planning or prior knowledge. I am however, actively trying to figure out a solution through all the resources available to me.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

it's an interesting scenario nscofer, thanks for sharing with the forum.


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## Fivej (Apr 4, 2016)

Nscofer seems to be a responsible person to me and is to be commended for trying to learn quickly and address the situation. If at all possible, get some knowledgeable beekeeper to come for an inspection with a queen sooner than a couple weeks. The hive could be queenless and could turn around immediately with a queen. If the hive is Africanized, a new queen can turn it around too but obviously that will take more time and expose your family and neighbors to unacceptable risks. If it is Africanized and the beekeeper is willing to take it away, I would pay them to do that. If not, I would kill them with a bucket of soapy water or dry ice. Good luck, J


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## Hillbillybees (Mar 3, 2016)

If its queenless now then two or three weeks its not going to be a good hive and a new queen is not going to be the answer. Laying workers will no doubt be the end of the colony. If it is AHB you don't want or need it as a new beekeeper. Even if not nobody enjoys a hot hive. Soapy water is probably the answer after you harvest the honey if you want it. Put the equipment away and buy some good bees next spring if you want them. Sorry your introduction to our world started so poorly for you. I hope it all works out for the best.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

nscofer said:


> Per my original thread, the bee hive came with the house, so I didn't have the convenience of planning or prior knowledge. I am however, actively trying to figure out a solution through all the resources available to me.


In such a case (inheritance), do ask those same neighbors - did they get stung *before* you got into keeping this bees?
It is interesting issue IF you got the house with nuisance bees and were not told about them honestly.
<removed..>

But regardless of how you got the bees, need to get that plan B in works now.
Or get rid of them due to liability issues. Maybe the easiest to just cull them all (since they maybe already falling off - only a medium box left occupied if I read this right).


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## leadchunker (May 23, 2014)

Yup you need an experienced beek to help you out. In addition to checking the queen status you need to check the mite load. Easy enough to check with a sugar shake or alcohol wash. Bees with a high mite load can be very aggressive.


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## WillH (Jun 25, 2010)

Try to find a beekeeper who is willing to give you a frame with eggs. It can be transported without bees attached so in 5 days you will know if the hive is queenless and if so, they will make queen cells. If they don't make queen cells then there is a queen in the hive and replacing her will make a big difference.


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

I'll go with the consensus here and say the first order of business is to find out if you are Queen-less. I don't know what the weather has been like where you are, but it has been so hot and dry here that my Queens have stopped laying. So, looking for eggs may be a losing proposition. 

The next step would be find the Queen, herself. That's a pretty tall order for someone with a hot hive. Especially if it is Africanized. They will become very defensive when the Queen is threatened. 

While a high mite load can make them aggressive, doing a sugar roll will make them mad also. If I suspected mites I would treat them.

I am not trying to offend anyone, I am keeping in mind that you are in town and your neighbors are already on high alert. I would try not to agitate them anymore than i had to. Neighbors or bees.  Moving them until you get them sorted out would be the best option, in my view, if you can. 

One other thing you can do is to split them into 2 or 3 if you can muster the resources and if you have a laying Queen. I wouldn't know how to split a brood-less colony. Splitting makes the Queen easier to find and smaller colonies are less defensive.

Lastly, if you do get to the point of re-Queening, follow these directions https://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?311486-Successful-Queen-Introduction-tips 

Good luck,
Alex

P. S. I read re-Queening an Africanized colony is more difficult. 

Best of luck,
Alex


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## Sweebee (Aug 10, 2013)

There are several helpful suggestions here but I haven't heard any talk about the fact that you're in SoCal. Is there a possibility that you have Africanized bees? I'm just curious about that for my own knowledge. 
Whatever you decide it is I would like to suggest to you what I did last summer with an incorrigibly hot hive. If nothing else works for you, what I eventually had to do was pinch the queen. THEN, because I didn't want her genetics, I went back in and meticulously scoured the entire hive for even a single queen cell and tore them out. Then I gave them eggs from the gentlest hive I had. That hive was still aggressive for several weeks until that generation died off but eventually the hive returned to normal. Surely SOME of her genetics may have been passed on by the drones she produced but you can only control so much. An added up side to this was that the hive had no brood to care for several weeks while the new queen matured and got mated. Nothing to do but honey production. Hope this is helpful.


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## buzz abbott (Mar 6, 2012)

I had a hot hive a couple of years ago. I snuffed the queen and the hive settled down nicely. I assume the queen was mated with an AHB influenced drone or 3.


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## ForrestBreese (Apr 19, 2014)

Your bees are almost certain to be aggressive feral hybrid bees. (AHB) Almost all wild bees in Southern California are feral hybrids. Many colonies can get hot. Many do not.
Your choices are re-queening or moving them to a remote bee yard. Then manage them consistently and see if they stop being grumpy. Use the smoker correctly and use honey water.
"Hot bees" have different rules. I would only inspect them when its not the hottest or coldest part of the day. Always use smoke. Then need protection from the ants and all day sun.


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## jtrahan1 (Jan 22, 2017)

I agree with all of the reasons as to why your bees might be angry, but unless you have a place to isolate that angry hive, you need to take immediate action. I would try a five gallon bucket of soapy water and start over. That should eliminate all those angry bees. Bee keeping isn’t any fun when you are afraid of getting stung or even worse if they are stinging your neighbors.


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## TehachapiGal (Mar 5, 2015)

nscofer said:


> Hi bee friends, I'm seeking some advice because I've decided my bees are jerks. As I'm typing this my wife is nursing yet another sting on her face and a bee is trying to come in through the screen window and get her again, at least 50 - 60 feet away from the hive. Jerk./]
> 
> My suggestion is to requeen your hive ASAP. It will take approximately 60 days or more for the current bees to cycle out. Before requeening I suggest you speak to an experienced beekeeper or preferably a beekeeper who offers queens about how to requeen an aggressive hive. I have read that beekeepers sometimes kill the queen then leave the hive queenless for a period of time so her phermones are gone so the colony will be more receptive to accepting a new queen. You will need to carefully inspect the entire hive for queen cells and destroy every one of them. Then install a new queen. Again, speak with the most experienced person you can find before attempting to requeen. Queens are expensive. Something else. Aggressive bees should be smoked heavier when inspecting the hive.
> 
> ...


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## rinkevichjm (Feb 14, 2018)

You had better requeen that hive. According to your LA county beekeepers association on FB, our state passed a law which your hives clearly fall under as an AHB nuisance. The city or county can come in and eradicate them and bill you.


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## jadebees (May 9, 2013)

If the bees requeened, from swarming, even feral strains can be mean. They do not survive from weakness. If they are european bees, still.
I think 50 ft is kinda close if this is the case. If africanised hybrids, they will stay angry 2 days after inspection. Or from any other disturbance. Plus all the other reasons in all these posts. Even if otherwise they are good bees. Many of those are excellent in all things, except the defensive attitude. 
People forget what wild bees are like.


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## AnnieD (Apr 27, 2014)

I did my first split this year -- I moved the frame with the queen over to an empty hive along with some frames of brood. What I learned from a Splitting class was to put a new queen in the now queen-less hive a day or two after splitting.
Why tell you all this?
Because those bees were PISSED OFF without their queen. When I finally introduced a new queen (safely protected in her little cage), they seem to calm down (not after stinging me over 10 times THROUGH MY SUIT).
My advice would be to armor up (ugh it's hot outside) and find that queen. Perhaps consider swapping your medium super with the deep super (so the deep is on the bottom) and make sure they have enough room. 
Am I an expert? Not even close! But that's my 2¢.


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## sjj (Jan 2, 2007)

nscofer said:


> ...
> 
> I used to sit by the hive and watch them come and go, and I didn't wear gloves my first couple of inspections and none of them bothered me. ...


These bees are not jerks. 
Please don't jerk and twist the frames, don't stamp the bees out, don't squeeze them.


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## queensrule (Oct 28, 2015)

Check for a Queen They May be queenless Also check their reserves as they may have gone through all honey. Without a nectar flow the bees can get angry. I always wear a VEIL. They can be purchased at any Beekeeping supplier.


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## nscofer (Jul 2, 2018)

***UPDATE***

Thank you for everyone who weighed in on this. I appreciate everyone's concern.

About 2 weeks ago we went back into the hive and found a queen, which we removed and replaced. We did observe 3 queen cells, one of which was open, all of which we destroyed. The bees had cooled off before we replaced the queen, but we still agreed that a new queen would still be our best bet. 

Today I went back into the hive to make sure the new queen had taken. While I didn't lay eyes on her, I saw lots of eggs and larva, so I closed the hive as to not agitate them further. 

In 3-4 weeks since I posted this we have been able to mow the grass, and haven't had a single sting. My wife even worked on clearing brush within 5 feet of the hive and was left alone. I think especially with the new queen, the worst of it has passed. 

I think we are well on our way to having a happy healthy hive that will no longer be nuisance!

EDIT: We also swapped the supers so the deep was on the bottom to make for a more proper set-up


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## Fivej (Apr 4, 2016)

Great news.


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