# No Luck With Splits



## bluescorpion (Sep 6, 2012)

Hi All

I've tried to split my hives about 5 different times over the past two years and have had NO luck. Each time, the bees gradually leave and never come back. I usually take a 5 frame nuc and add 1 frame of honey, 3 frames of brood(larvae), and 1 frame of partial comb for the bees to draw out. From there I'll get a few frames of bees and shake into the NUC and move it about a mile away.

Do you guys do anything different when you split your hives? inch:

Thanks for any input gang


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

I do something similar to that that works but I either put a caged queen into the split or take the parent colonies queen to head the split and let the parent colony raise a new queen as they are much better able to raise a quality new queen. Try one of those.


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## franktrujillo (Jan 22, 2009)

hello splitting doesn't have to bee hard try and make the nuc again but put in the place of the hive that donated the brood. you don't have to move the nuc 5 miles away


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## Danpa14 (Jun 12, 2013)

Vance G said:


> I do something similar to that that works but I either put a caged queen into the split or take the parent colonies queen to head the split and let the parent colony raise a new queen as they are much better able to raise a quality new queen. Try one of those.


Yeah what Vance said. I would add make sure the queenless hive has eggs and young larva, preferably on new comb, not old dark hard comb.


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

I do what Frank says. Split and put the queenless part of the split in the old hive's location and move the mother colony elsewhere. I have an 80% success rate at this time of year. If the split fails to produce a queen I recombine with a weak hive.


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## gezellig (Jun 11, 2014)

I have great luck doing basically what you said, except I ensure eggs, not larva, but eggs. You stated in your post that you place brood (larva), maybe you are selecting larva past the correct timing.


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## McBee7 (Dec 25, 2013)

Here's something I tried yesterday, and will see if it works in a week or two....Yesterday was a buitifull day with all the field bees at work,,,I needed to make a 2 story 5 over 5 frame nuc into a single 10 frame deep and move to anaother yard,,,,,I made up the 10 frame with 9 frames from the original nuc and a frame of extra comb.....I replaced the original 5 frame box back on the original position where the field bees were returning to and put in the 10th frame (from the original nuc) witch contained brood and eggs, as well as 4 other frames of drawn comb....I then took the 10 frame box to its new location with the brood and nurse bees and also the queen,,,, and left the original box in the original location with the field bees and resources for them to make their own queen....I did 3 hives like this so I hope it works  I just didn't want to lose the power of the field bees in this move and change to a 10 frame box...

==McBee7==


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## Swampsquash (Oct 25, 2014)

I put in a foundation less frame about 2 weeks before I split the nuc. I took the frame which should have some eggs on it and split with it and 4 other frame's... They made some real pretty queen cells in the fresh wax..... Adding a caged queen is by far the easiest and best of all you don't lose a month while the queen hatches mates etc


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## bluescorpion (Sep 6, 2012)

franktrujillo said:


> hello splitting doesn't have to bee hard try and make the nuc again but put in the place of the hive that donated the brood. you don't have to move the nuc 5 miles away



I have been curious about this. I was told in my beekeeping classes that you needed to move the nuc about two miles away after a split, BUT, I know of a few beekeepers that don't move their bees after a split and they seem to have no problems with their splits.

So when doing a split should I take the queen from the original hive and place her in the nuc or just put the nuc in the place of the original hive? I've only got 3 now so I don't want to muck this up.

Thanks again guys


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## D Coates (Jan 6, 2006)

I move them about 5 ft. apart. If I can find the queen make sure she's in the new location. If not come back in a week and switch the hives to make sure the queen is in the new location.


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## McBee7 (Dec 25, 2013)

You can make a split in the same yard, BUT the field bees will return to the old location, and the nurse bees will stay with a frame of brood wherever you put them...the nurse bees are very young bees and don't fly but will take care of the new hatching brood....The queen wwill most likely stay where you put her, but the other hive will need to make a new queen or you will have to give that hive a new one....Here is a youtube video to demonstrate the above principal..
https://youtu.be/6Px93qlq340
If you understand whats going on you wont have any problem, baring mites, robbing, yellow jackets or someother problem that is messing up the split...
good luck...

==McBee7==


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

I want to try the Teranov method this yr. Here is a guy that puts his own twist on it, He moves the ramp a little further from the hive than the typical 4 inches. and sets a box with comb under the ramp so he basically doesn't have to shake much. It's a bit long, but a good video.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETgWMMZr4So


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

I just split the meanest hive in Montana and was worried that the responsible queen might have made it back in that hive after she flew off on me. The caged queen I installed is no where to be found--thanks Russian genotype!- and I found emergency cells from the mean mother! THe portion I moved to a different place in the same yard lost all its field bees and accepted the new queen for that half. All my two frame splits into three frame nucs worked like a charm and all queens are laying. I will have to move them in a week into five frame nucs or they will start swarming on me.


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

Scorpion, one problem you may be having is with feeding. I have had a lot of success in raising bees by splitting them using the methods of Mel Disselkoen, and then growing them on using Michael Palmer's nuc principles. With Mel's method the colony's foragers get divided amongst the splits, and continue to gather nectar before the new queen starts laying. 
Last year I made some more traditional splits by taking brood, cells, and a frame of honey. I noticed that these colonies lost weight quickly and needed to be fed. 
I suspect that your splits were hungry, and wonder if your results might be better if you kept some feed on. Bees grow a colony more confidently if they are not hungry.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

McBee7 said:


> The queen wwill most likely stay where you put her, but the other hive will need to make a new queen or you will have to give that hive a new one....Here is a youtube video to demonstrate the above principal..
> https://youtu.be/6Px93qlq340


That is great when you can find a queen and also catch her. I wouldn't bank on not getting stung though.


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## gezellig (Jun 11, 2014)

I have excellent luck with the traditional eggs, honey, and pollen frames. Just make sure you get some eggs. 
I coached, by phone, a guy thru splitting his hive about a month ago. Reiterating get a frame of eggs, EGGS, EGGS. Two weeks later he calls and said he put them all back together as they never made queen cells. I reviewed with him the procedure and his answer, "well I used capped larva, thinking there were probably eggs there too in some cells". What!! He's had one hive five years, only one. You must have eggs.


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## michkel (Dec 1, 2012)

gezellig said:


> I have excellent luck with the traditional eggs, honey, and pollen frames. Just make sure you get some eggs.
> I coached, by phone, a guy thru splitting his hive about a month ago. Reiterating get a frame of eggs, EGGS, EGGS. Two weeks later he calls and said he put them all back together as they never made queen cells. I reviewed with him the procedure and his answer, "well I used capped larva, thinking there were probably eggs there too in some cells". What!! *He's had one hive five years, only one.* You must have eggs.


k: I've had only 1 hive for 4 years. Granted, I'm hoping to change that soon. I figured it was better to learn on a smaller scale - not as much cost to lose if I screwed up. I've made plenty of mistakes, but I'm still going at it, and learning a lot more every day. But yes, I understand that EGGS are very important to a split if you want them to raise a queen for you.


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## gezellig (Jun 11, 2014)

You seem committed to it, you'll work it out. My student, not so much. 
With one hive, do you think maybe there is a lack of DCA? Just a thought


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## michkel (Dec 1, 2012)

gezellig said:


> You seem committed to it, you'll work it out. My student, not so much.
> With one hive, do you think maybe there is a lack of DCA? Just a thought


We're in a popular area for hives, so there are others around. But like I said before, I'm hoping to add another hive soon. I'm contemplating my first split.


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