# Favorite Grafting Tool?



## GarrickG (Nov 29, 2014)

I sorted though the 10 I got off of eBay. I found three that were more supple than the rest. I scraped the bamboo on another until it was quite thin. Supple and thin, don't


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

Yes, newer wax combs that have not been used for brooding for years maybe more supple and easier to damage with the Chinese tool. It's my favorite of purchased tools though. I made one by pounding and flat tip on a bent out paper clip once that worked pretty good.


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

Have you tried the nicot/cupkit system yet? Just ordered one off ebay and will give it a try in my topbar hives this year. My hands shake too bad to graft with any tool, but I did buy 10 of the Chinese grafting tools to clean out the small cups. I plan on carving out some of the wax comb and setting the plastic box in its place in the brood nest. queen should feel right at home...at least that's the theory.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/302166722653?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Use a dark comb that has had several rounds of brood raised in it. Keep the Chinese grafting tool in your mouth to soften the tip.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

paint brush.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

I prefer the JZ-BZ grafting tool. https://www.mannlakeltd.com/jz-bz-plastic-grafting-tool

I find it works best if you prime the cells.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

AstroBee said:


> I find it works best if you prime the cells.


Do you mean priming the cups your grafting into, AstroBee? I dump water into all the cups then shake them out, leaving just a trace of water. Seems to make a huge difference.

OP, for what it's worth... I originally tried with foundationless combs and I will say that you're probably going to have a bad time with that like I did. Even if you just have a single drawn comb you insert into the middle of the broodnest of the queen you want to graft from maybe 5 days before grafting day with black plastic foundation it will help you out a lot. Otherwise the guys doing cell punching with wax foundation, that seems like a pretty efficient means of using foundationless. Perhaps as MP says if you somehow soften the tip it will work better? But I think mine are plastic (not horn), so I'm not sure if that will help soften anything. :scratch: 

It's up to your personal preference of course.  I thought it was a tool problem the first couple of attempts... then realized it was absolutely user error. Even my ebay cheapo 10-pack of chinese tools seems to work just fine. Another little tip I'd give is that I only have to use the plunger to get the larva off of the tool probably less than half the time. You kind of get the hang of how to get them on the tip and with moist cups they slide right off without pushing them.

And magnification and lighting. And magnification and lighting. And magnification and lighting. And magnification and lighting.

I have been happy with these:
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KAU5FSC/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## Matt903 (Apr 8, 2013)

I run foundationless also, and Mr. Palmer is right, the dark brood wax will not gouge easily, the newer wax will. I always had trouble with the Chinese grafting tool, not sure why, but I have been successful with the German metal tool. I also found out, that I had double the takes when I wore magnifying glasses when I grafted.


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## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

A chewed tooth pick Works great.


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## aran (May 20, 2015)

sorry to hijack here but had to ask...is it necessary to prime the cups with royal jelly/water?
I'm going to have a crack at grafting this year ( trying to follow MPs sustainable apiary model meaning have to try and raise some queens!) and I'm not sure about dry vs primed cups.

thanks in advance


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

jwcarlson said:


> Do you mean priming the cups your grafting into, AstroBee?


Yes. I mean placing a small amount of RJ in the plastic cup prior to placing the graft. Its all part of the process I use. I place the grafting frame in my cell builder 1 day prior to grafting, so all larvae are very well provisioned. This also gives a "real-time" reservoir for RJ - no storage of RJ required - I just pull it from adjacent cells while grafting. I'm not suggesting that this is better, or even new, just something that works for me.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

aran said:


> sorry to hijack here but had to ask...is it necessary to prime the cups with royal jelly/water?
> I'm going to have a crack at grafting this year ( trying to follow MPs sustainable apiary model meaning have to try and raise some queens!) and I'm not sure about dry vs primed cups.
> 
> thanks in advance



No it is not necessary. I suspect that most "dry" graft. If you are proficient with the Chinese tool then no priming needed. I find the Chinese tools inconsistent (at best).


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## aran (May 20, 2015)

AstroBee said:


> No it is not necessary. I suspect that most "dry" graft. If you are proficient with the Chinese tool then no priming needed. I find the Chinese tools inconsistent (at best).


thanks mate. I have bought the Chinese, german and JZBZ tools...figure ill give em all a try. I'm hopeful although not super optimistic ill have much success but I want to give it a go.


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## Flyer Jim (Apr 22, 2004)

Michael Palmer said:


> Use a dark comb that has had several rounds of brood raised in it. Keep the Chinese grafting tool in your mouth to soften the tip.


:thumbsup:


AstroBee said:


> No it is not necessary. I suspect that most "dry" graft. If you are proficient with the Chinese tool then no priming needed. I find the Chinese tools inconsistent (at best).


You can tune them up with 600 wet & dry sandpaper, make them just the way you want them.


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

MP, will follow your advice on old dark brood comb and keeping the tip moist. I will try and fine tune my skills, as well as the chinese tool with some sandpaper, along with trying some other options like the chewed toothpick and pounded flat tip paper clip Ray and Tenbears mentioned. I watched a vid of Les Crowder using a willow branch where he broke off a thin section of branch and used the remnant of torn, supple bark at the end for grafting also. Might give that a go. Lighting and magnification-check. I'm sure that will help tremendously as I struggled to see what I was doing last year. I'm guessing more practice will help more than anything. 

Ruth, I like the idea of the Nicot system, but I really want to get this grafting thing down. I might try one for kicks someday when funds aren't an issue. It looks like a really good system. Let me know how it works for you.

Thank you all.


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## tpope (Mar 1, 2015)

The black plastic cored frame is your best shortcut to having some old dark brood comb. The lighting and magnification work very well then to better allow your eyes to have proper depth perception... I found that I have to see it properly to be able to make a tool work. My favorite is the chinese tool. At least thus far.


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## tpope (Mar 1, 2015)

Daniel Y said:


> paint brush.


What size and type of bristle? Do you trim or use as new?


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## BWrangler (Aug 14, 2002)

Hi Guys

Sanding a Chinese tool's tip, changing its thickness and shape, alters it's flexibility and function. It's quick, taking only a couple of minutes at most.

For new comb or some plastic based foundation, a tinner, more tappered tip works great. Almost any kind of tip works on old, dark, bullet shaped cells.


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## Richard Cryberg (May 24, 2013)

Modified plastic drinking straw. Smaller diameter and black is best. Diameter about the size of the cells you are grafting from. Cut the end at an angle with the cut an inch or more long. Tip should be cut flat and 1/32 inch wide. Too narrow and the tip is too flexible. Too wide and it is too stiff. Much easier for me than either the Chinese tools or any of the metal tools. Push larva off the end of the plastic straw with any of the metal grafting tools, or I use a dental pick. When you are first learning to graft it helps immensely if you push the cell walls out of the way with the dental pick before trying to pick up the larva. You can see the larva much easier. With experience you can skip pushing the cell walls out of the way and just stick the straw down the cell and pull it back out with the larva on it. Keep the cell area you are grafting from moist with a very fine mist of tap water from a spray bottle if you are having trouble getting the grafting tool under the larva and instead are pushing it to the side of the cell.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

When I did my first grafts I had maybe 5 Chinese tools with me and after not being satisfied with the functioning of a couple of them I learned that the problem was mostly me... I will possibly thin down the bamboo before grafting again. 

Illumination and magnification were my biggest issues. 

I would suggest that you buy 8 or 10 of the Chinese grafting tools so you have plenty to set aside while practicing the technique.


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

Richard, I'll give the straw a try. That's a good idea.


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## rookie2531 (Jul 28, 2014)

I don't know about everyone else, but I tend to think, whatever way you start with is usually the way you stick with. How many of you guys actually bought a tool and then another and then another?

I bought a 10 pack of Chinese tools and never did try any other method of grafting. Seems like when it's go time, it's go time. I don't want to mess around with, OK let's try this. O.k now let's try this. I get them done ASAP and in the cell builder. So, the Chinese tool is really the only tool that I have used.


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

It's all experimental for me. I'm not in a position right now where I need to make 100 or more grafts, so I can try different tools to see if there is an overwhelming preference for one or the other. This is more of a learning experience at the moment more so than I have to get it done, but I see your point.


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## Richard Cryberg (May 24, 2013)

rookie2531 said:


> I don't know about everyone else, but I tend to think, whatever way you start with is usually the way you stick with. How many of you guys actually bought a tool and then another and then another?
> 
> I bought a 10 pack of Chinese tools and never did try any other method of grafting. Seems like when it's go time, it's go time. I don't want to mess around with, OK let's try this. O.k now let's try this. I get them done ASAP and in the cell builder. So, the Chinese tool is really the only tool that I have used.


If you have nice steady hands the Chinese tool is the best commercial choice IMO. If your hands shake like a leaf like mine do the Chinese tools are impossible. I junk 20 larva for everyone that is a good graft with the Chinese tools. With my straw and bracing the sides of my hands on a board laying on the comb I junk one in five with the drinking straw. I am still not as fast as someone with steady hands with the Chinese tools. I have seen people that can do a graft every 20 seconds with them. I am more like one a minute or a bit faster. Actually I would probably do even better if I filled the straw with lead shot to give it more weight but have not bothered to try that mod. It would help with my shaky hands. Essential tremor is a pain in the .... Drinking half a beer and waiting ten minutes also helps me. Alcohol is well documented to calm essential tremor. That is why so many people with the problem become alcoholics from excessive self medication with booze.

Dick


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

You don't throw away the other half do you?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

> How many of you guys actually bought a tool and then another and then another?

I did. I have a fancy German made stainless steel one with a retractable tongue, a JZBZ plastic one, a couple of others I've lost track of, some homade ones, and the Chinese grafting tools. I only use the Chinese grafting tools now.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

rookie2531 said:


> How many of you guys actually bought a tool and then another and then another?


I have, but realized shortly into trying the other ones that it was a problem with me and not with the tool.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

rookie2531 said:


> I don't know about everyone else, but I tend to think, whatever way you start with is usually the way you stick with. How many of you guys actually bought a tool and then another and then another?
> 
> I bought a 10 pack of Chinese tools and never did try any other method of grafting. Seems like when it's go time, it's go time. I don't want to mess around with, OK let's try this. O.k now let's try this. I get them done ASAP and in the cell builder. So, the Chinese tool is really the only tool that I have used.


I for one have. I suspect I have over 24 various items I have used to graft with. I also do extremely realistic pencil drawings. I have well over 100 pencils I have tried to use. few make the grade in either case. I like to know what does not work and why as much as what does.


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

Daniel Y said:


> I like to know what does not work and why as much as what does.


That sounds a bit like me. I'm overly curious. 

I messed with the straw a bit today as far as fashioning one per Richard's description. I used a bendy straw which was nice to acquire the angle at which to enter the cup. I modified the tip, just enough so as to make a flat end, maybe a 35 degree angle to the flexible length. What I found when entering into the plastic cup was this modified tip was flexible enough to bend and easily sit flush on the cup bottom. I think this will work similarly to the chinese tool without the worry of gouging the cell bottom with the modified angled tip added. If it works like I think it will, it's going to be pretty nifty. Will let anyone know how it goes if interested. Thanks again for all the tips and advice.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

Another thing to consider. I use a brush. my daughter uses a straw. neither of us can use the other persons tool. It is very much and individual thing. I don't know if it has been mentioned here but I have seen people say they use a tooth pick that they chewed the end of. I have a german grafting tool but it required way to much fine tuning for my liking.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

The thing about the Chinese tool that is so great is that it lifts the royal jelly out. The larvae is floating on the royal jelly and it dumps the royal jelly into the cell cup. That's part of why I quit priming them (besides that it didn't seem to help that much). All other tools I have used are lifting the larvae and not the jelly.


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

Thanks Daniel and Michael. I'll keep all of that in mind. Practice is going to benefit more than anything I think. I like the Chinese tool and the benefit of not having to prime is a time saver. If the modified plastic straw works like I think it might, it should bring some rj with it. Next warm up, I'm going to grab a comb and do a little practice to see how it works out. Might be a total flop, but it looks promising for me just doing the motions.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Practice is, of course, key. I do this every year at the bee camp. I show people. I let them try. If I can talk them into continuing for some time to try and get them to try again the next day, they start getting the hang of it. It's just difficult enough to put people off at first, but not really that difficult. Learning to play the guitar well enough to actually play one song can take a week or so. Learning to graft can take an hour or so for two days...


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## Clayton Huestis (Jan 6, 2013)

Chinese grafting tool hands down is my favorite.


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

Just got through with my first round of grafts. I feel pretty good about it. 13 total grafts using a lighted magnifying visor, Chinese grafting tool and old comb seemed to do the trick. I also tore out the sides of the cell per Richard which helped get a good angle to work with. My straw mod was way too flexible and found it difficult to use. I will tweak it a bit and see how it does next time for curiosity sake. Overall, I'm extremely pleased with how it went, and wanted to thank all who contributed to this thread for the ideas. Going to check acceptance tomorrow.


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## Richard Cryberg (May 24, 2013)

Nordak said:


> Just got through with my first round of grafts. I feel pretty good about it. 13 total grafts using a lighted magnifying visor, Chinese grafting tool and old comb seemed to do the trick. I also tore out the sides of the cell per Richard which helped get a good angle to work with. My straw mod was way too flexible and found it difficult to use. I will tweak it a bit and see how it does next time for curiosity sake. Overall, I'm extremely pleased with how it went, and wanted to thank all who contributed to this thread for the ideas. Going to check acceptance tomorrow.


Try a wider tip on the end of the straw that slides under the larva. A too narrow tip is too flexible. Also try a smaller diameter straw. Might also be a difference in the plastic depending on the brand of straw also I suppose. The one I use is stiffer than a Chinese tool which is why I like it.


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## Broke-T (Jul 9, 2008)

I use Chinese tool and graft dry. You get a lot of RJ when using it. 

Whenever I am at a meeting with vendors I go thru their Chinese tool looking for the most flexible ones.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Broke-T said:


> Whenever I am at a meeting with vendors I go thru their Chinese tool looking for the most flexible ones.


Keep the end in your mouth for 5 minutes before you start grafting, and during the time between bars. Helps keep it soft.


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## MJC417 (Jul 26, 2008)

I only do a small amount of grafts compared to most on beesource. I'm fussy about which larva I choose so sometimes they are on light comb. A fine detail paintbrush with the handle cut down works best for me and wont damage the soft comb.


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

Richard Cryberg said:


> Try a wider tip on the end of the straw that slides under the larva. A too narrow tip is too flexible. Also try a smaller diameter straw. Might also be a difference in the plastic depending on the brand of straw also I suppose. The one I use is stiffer than a Chinese tool which is why I like it.


Will do, Richard. I realized that my folly was trimming it down too thinly once I tried it. Had I not done that, it would have worked extremely well.


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## tazke (Mar 23, 2015)

10/0 bent head paint brush. Works great. 

Princeton 3750 Select Angled Spot Detailer is made from Golden Synthetic Hair and brush measures 6.75" long x 0.125" high x 0.125" wide; hair measures 0.05" diameter x 0.12" long Princeton Select 3750 are short handle artist paint brushes specifically design for decorative painting and technique painting


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

tazke said:


> 10/0 bent head paint brush. Works great.


Looking at picture #2, it appears that the side walls are completely missing. Further, the cells looks almost plastic. Can you provide more information on what you're grafting from?


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## tazke (Mar 23, 2015)

Just a frame of brood larva and eggs on plastic foundation. Side walls are there. Might be a bit of a optical illusion due to the focus on the microscope.


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## Nordak (Jun 17, 2016)

That's an amazing set up you have there. I'll have to try one of those brushes. Seems I'm finally getting the hang of the Chinese grafting tool, but would still love to experiment with different tools.


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## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

tazke said:


> Just a frame of brood larva and eggs on plastic foundation. Side walls are there. Might be a bit of a optical illusion due to the focus on the microscope.
> 
> View attachment 31395


Hmm, got any details on the source for that microscope with screen? That's a slick setup.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

tazke said:


> Just a frame of brood larva and eggs on plastic foundation. Side walls are there. Might be a bit of a optical illusion due to the focus on the microscope.
> 
> View attachment 31395


Very nice. Thanks for the follow-up.


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## pahammer (Oct 8, 2012)

Koolertron 4.3" LCD Digital USB Microscope magnifier with 1-600X 

https://www.amazon.com/Koolertron-M...ron+4.3"+LCD+Digital+USB+Microscope+magnifier


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## pahammer (Oct 8, 2012)

Mods....please delete


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## Virgil (Jan 14, 2018)

Nordak said:


> Part of the problem I found being foundationless was the tip seemed to gouge the wax before bending. If I can get the Chinese tool to work, I'm sure it's a fine tool, but I'm thinking of trying out others. Any suggestions?


I have the same problem. It's less of an issue with the older comb. I know use timing boxes with combs built on foundation.


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## jcase (Jul 30, 2016)

Virgil said:


> I have the same problem. It's less of an issue with the older comb. I know use timing boxes with combs built on foundation.


Ditto, I prefer to graft from black plastic foundation. I tried grafting from some foundationless comb, I punched through it about 4 times before I got the hang of it.


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## drivefly44 (Jul 7, 2015)

The best luck I've had is with the Chinese tool. I order 10 and pick out a few that have straight bamboo plungers. The key for me, is to take it apart and sand the tongue 320 grit sandpaper until it's super thin. Reshape the tip with a fingernail clipper if necc. It slides right under the larvae with the pool of jelly. Has worked for me :thumbsup:


LB


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