# I'd like to start but I have some fears...



## pisymbol (Feb 24, 2010)

So I have been interested in this hobby for a little while but never had the gumption to start it for a couple of reasons. But now, my fiancee is working very hard at a community garden and has said to me it might be nice to have some bee's buzzing alone to help it along. Sounds reasonable to me!

But here are my concerns after doing some reading on and off:

1) I would not want more than two hives at any given time. Is this possible? I know part of avoiding multiple hives is the idea of avoiding the swarm and swapping out queens every 2-3 years. But can you really just have one to two hives for extended periods of time relatively naturally? (i.e. not torturing the bees)

2) What if the bees DO swarm? How do I remove the swarm or get them back into the hive? This has scared me since I really have no clue.

3) Has anyone been liable for an allergic bee sting due to beekeeping? I know the thought of being stung in a GARDEN sounds ludicrous but still...

4) What if work or personal distractions get in the way of keeping the hive? Could I back out some how and still give the bees a good home or retire them humanely?

Anyway I was hoping I could get some feedback/comments about what is holding me back.


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## BGhoney (Sep 26, 2007)

You can keep only 2 hives if thats all you want, You can box a swarm and give it way, or often combine them back . Depending on security you could put hives in a public garden, I would worry about vandals. It would work better to have them somewhere near the garden out of sight.

If you decided beekeeping wasn't for you , selling hives isn't hard or give them to a young beekeeper.

You would be very lucky if you had hives for a while, and still only wanted 2.


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## Brent Bean (Jun 30, 2005)

A plethora of good questions, you could write a book to answer all of them, I will say what I always say to someone contemplating on getting into beekeeping. Obtain and read some of the outstanding books available, this will prepare you to be successful and will save a lot of hard lessons. 

Find a beekeeper in your area you could confide in for advice. I will offer a hands on experience for anyone who shows up and wants to learn. But above all turn your interest into reality, you won’t regret it. Beekeeping is a very rewarding endeavor. I started out with two hives mainly because I wasn’t really sure it would be my cup of tea. Then I soon realized that six hives would be a lot more fun, then eighteen than thirty. This seems to be a number that I can handle and still work a full time job at the power company I work for and manage our small blueberry operation. The only thing I don’t like about beekeeping is the long winters of just watching the hives covered with snow, and wishing for green again.


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## brac (Sep 30, 2009)

pisymbol said:


> (i.e. not torturing the bees)
> 
> .


Yep, thats all any of us do, is torture bees. However it is a trade secrect, tell us who told you and we shall deal with them.


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## honeydreams (Aug 10, 2009)

1 two hives are just fine.
2 swarms happen but there are ways to help hinder their want to swarm. like making sure they have proper room. and sometimes they will just move lock stock and barrel. 
3 nope your not going to be held lible for some one getting stung. unless you know they are alergic and take them to your hive against their will.
4 you can get a way with checking on them 9 times a year at the min. and if you want to get rid of them I am sure there are plenty of takers on this board.


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## indypartridge (Nov 18, 2004)

As others have said, start reading. Check your local library for books and videos on beekeeping. 

Also, contact local/state beekeeping clubs and attend a few meetings. Many clubs offer beginnning beekeeping classes and are great places to find mentors and get connected with nearby beekeepers who can help you out. There are several clubs in New Jersey, or possibly SE Pennsylvania:
http://njbeekeepers.org/LocalBranches.htm

http://www.pastatebeekeepers.org/Reports/Map/Contacts and Inspectors.htm#


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## Cascade Failure (Feb 4, 2010)

I won't address the specifics of your questions as I don't have the knowledge. This will be my first year with bees. What I will offer is that you seem to have a case of the "what ifs." In small doses this can be helpful, maybe even healthy. In larger doses it can be paralyzing. Trust me I know. I used to let the what ifs run my life.

What if you fail? I now say... so what if you do? You made an attempt. At that point you can decide if further effort is worth it.

But...what if you succeed? Who knows where that will take you.


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## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

I kept a single hive for three years. Now I keep a hive at the University of South Florida Botanical Gardens. I brought it there for pollination. At the first garden show, there was a great interest in classes to learn about the bees. Month two I was teaching new beekeepers. That was last year and I am still teaching. We added a liability release about halfway through last year. The classes are lecture, question/answer and hands-on. We had a problem with teenagers last year. I strapped the hive together like I would for bears or racoons. We have not had any trouble since. If you look at the photo galleries, there are many people at every class. There are new, never seen a hive, students every month. The Florida Master Beekeeper Program uses keeping a hive in a public garden as a requirement and tool to educate the public.
http://americasbeekeeper.com/Gallery.htm
or
http://americasbeekeeper.com/Gallery_2010.htm


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## Merlyn Votaw (Jun 23, 2008)

First I can't guarentee that someone won't get stung but from my experience the only time I have ever been stung is when I am close to a hive.Bees won't sting when they are forgeing.also if someone does get a bee sting how will they prove the bee that stung them came from your hive?It could have came from a feral(wild) hive.Most people that start with their own bees get hooked and don't want to quit but if you do their are beekeepers that would gladly take them.Also contact your local county ag agent for advise and addresses of local bee clubs. Good luck.


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## Batman (Jun 7, 2009)

I started with one hive that I captured at a friends house. I enjoyed it so much that I couldn't wait to get more. As was said before, it's addicting, and you'll prob want more. I was concerned about people getting stung by bees (my kids or neighbors), so far the only person that has been stung has been me and it was usually a mistake I made. I talked to my neighbors and at first they were a little against it, but tell you what, when they got that free bottle of golden liquid, I never heard anything else except "when are you going to have more?" Gotta say, as he plants more fruit trees in his yard, I'm probably going to have to give him a couple of extra bottles this year. If for any reason, you decide that it's not for you, there's pleanty of people that will take the hives or buy them off of you, its only a craigslist ad away.

Good luck,
Craig


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## Ardilla (Jul 17, 2006)

It seems like you have gotten good answers to your questions so far.

I will add. Find a local beekeeper (through a local club or a site like this) that is willing to have you shaddow them during a hive inspection or two. That can really give you an idea if the hobby is for you, and it helps with some of the fears.


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## Marc (May 20, 2005)

I would add one other suggestion to the good points that others have made so far. From the description of your situation it sounds like you are not looking to get huge honey harvests, and that you would like to go a very natural route. You might want to look into, and read up on, top bar hives. They would save you the big expenses of the more standard Langstroth hive, they are easy to built yourself and they will provide you a with a way to tinker with bees before jumping into the serious stuff. When you get hooked on beekeeping you will have more experience and will be better prepared for the more standard beekeeping with supers, frames, and potentially large honey harvests.

Good luck. And don't be afraid, like most on here you will wonder very soon how you could have ever lived without bees.


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## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

> They would save you the big expenses of the more standard Langstroth hive, . . . . -Marc


Not trying to provoke an argument here, but I sometimes read this sort of statement and am left wondering, "What are the 'big expenses' of a Langstroth hive?"

How does a Langstroth cost any more than a topbar?


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## bigevilgrape (Aug 21, 2008)

A lot of people build their TBHs out of scrap lumber they got for free. So it's free vs whatever you paid for your lang hive.


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## honeydreams (Aug 10, 2009)

No new beek should use a top bar hive they are a throw back to the stone age of beeking.


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## laurelmtnlover (May 29, 2009)

honeydreams said:


> No new beek should use a top bar hive they are a throw back to the stone age of beeking.


I started last year with a top bar hive and would recommend it to any new beekeeper for its beauty and simplicity. Pure beekeeping. My bees love it, my neighbors love it and I love it. I am thinking of progressing to warre soon, but not until I build and stock 4-6 top bar hives. The knotweed honey gleaned from it last September was incredible. 
Start with reading anything by Michael Bush at www.bushfarms.com
and Joey and Gary at www.customwoodkitsinternational.com . 
Read, read, read, and make up your own mind. If I would have listened to the local urban bee organization, I wouldn't have pursued and fallen in love with top bar hive beekeeping.


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## bigbearomaha (Sep 3, 2009)

any new beek can start with what ever equipment they choose.

If you don't like top bar hives, don't use them but don't make untrue comments about them to try to run people off of them. That's so childish.

Top bar hives are very efficient and work well for a lot of people looking for the benefits a tbh offers. maybe a tbh isn't the best hive if you are interested in making money from honey production or large scale pollination, but that doesn't make them a throwback. good grief.

Choose the equipment based on your needs and your expectations. read all you can on bee biology and know what you want from beekeeping then make your own educated decisions.

enjoy the bees,

Big Bear


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## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

A Langstroth hive can be built out of scrap wood as easily and more efficiently than a top bar. I make my personal hives from scrap and the oldest is 5 years old and still in use. I do not need any board longer than 19 inches or wider than 7 inches. The top bar hive is so similar to hives before the Langstroth it is crazy. Bees naturally build vertically. So new natural beekeepers are advocating horizontal hives. If the TBH cannot be inspected and manipulated as easily as the Langstroth it will promote diseases, pests and parasites to the epidemic levels that caused the great kills 150 years ago. Wow a bit like CCD.


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## laurelmtnlover (May 29, 2009)

" Bees naturally build vertically. So new natural beekeepers are advocating horizontal hives. If the TBH cannot be inspected and manipulated as easily as the Langstroth it will promote diseases, pests and parasites to the epidemic levels that caused the great kills 150 years ago. Wow a bit like CCD.[/QUOTE]

Please support your quote with evidence. 

Backyard or hobby beekeeping is a pleasure. Please don't be put of by statements like the above. Beekeepers love to keep bees, in Langstroths or top bar hives.


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## bigevilgrape (Aug 21, 2008)

AmericasBeekeeper said:


> A Langstroth hive can be built out of scrap wood as easily and more efficiently than a top bar. I make my personal hives from scrap and the oldest is 5 years old and still in use.


I don't have the woodworking skills to build a lang that would fit with comercial frames. 

I"m too new to be in a place to argue that, but I do disagree. I have nothing against Langs and the OP isn't looking for a suggestion of what kind of hive to use. This is like talkign about raising your kids and is bound to start trouble.


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

AmericasBeekeeper said:


> A Langstroth hive can be built out of scrap wood as easily and more efficiently than a top bar.


You have a point about finding scrap wood that's big enough for a TBH since I just went through that process.

However, even a basic table saw with the right setup, as well as the correct construction glue (and clamps. etc.) will allow anyone to make larger length and diameter lumber from scraps (it's easier if they're all the same width :doh: ).

I wonder if 'verticality' is the reason Langstroths are considered to be more productive (by far) than TBHs?

Inspection could be an issue if local regs preclude TBHs. Sooo, perhaps you have a valid issue.

I was, as a matter of fact, considering building a Langstroth/TBH with hive bodies of various depths. The idea of a stackable TBH does have some appeal.

However, I felt that something that could be worked at waist level would be more comfortable.

But, just to show that I'm open minded, I might come up with some Langstroth style TBH supers if I can locate some extra scraps.


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## bigbearomaha (Sep 3, 2009)

first of all, it isn't just "new" beekeepers who use and advocate top bar hives, there are several beeks on this forum with over 20 years experience with multiple types of hives who use tbh's. 

btw, as long as each bar isable to be pulled individually and inspected, it is legal. good management can help keep comb straight.

also, just because something is old, that doesn't make it useless or bad, only different.

langstroth created his hive in mind of easy honey production and to simplify management of hives for beekeepers wanting such "easy" access.

no one here is telling the OP they must use a tbh, let each beek decide for themselves what type of equipment will be best for their unique situation

Big Bear


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## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

ABC&XYZ of Bee Culture, 41st ed. Hives, Types of, "many beekeepers pay little attention to what bees prefer."
Top bar Hives, Newly-built honeycomb is particularly fragile and must be handled with care." The horizontal expansion of the brood nest slows the colonie's development compared to a vertical expansion in a standard hive."
Seeley,TD, Honeybee Ecology, "Honeybee colonies prefer to move in an upward direction. 
Forums do allow everyone regardless of experience to make wild and even incorrect claims like wikipedia. I have a few more expert resources for the armchair beekeepers.


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## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

Incidently, I have nothing against top bar hives, Kenyan or Tanzanian. I have issue with beehavers that blow smoke other places than their hive.


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## pisymbol (Feb 24, 2010)

I just want to thank everyone for their responses and to figure out why vbulletin to this day can not do subscribing to threads in a timely fashion (emails sent out).

Anyway, part of this is that my fiancee is a coordinator of a community garden AS WELL AS a volunteer for a state university garden and she has stated that it might be a good idea to have bee hives around. I am absolutely fascinated by it but I do have my fears.

In terms of hives and startup costs, I'm good. I am working professional and bare the cost of it. However I do worry about time...

One other thing I have to ask is I am thinking of taking a course on bee-keeping? Have folks done this and how good are they? Mine is taught by our local university's agriculture department. Its 2 days of course work and then a third day at the hive.


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## honeydreams (Aug 10, 2009)

Just my two cents on TBH they are a throw back to the stone age. Nice relic cool to have but not what bees like.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>1) I would not want more than two hives at any given time. Is this possible? I know part of avoiding multiple hives is the idea of avoiding the swarm and swapping out queens every 2-3 years. But can you really just have one to two hives for extended periods of time relatively naturally? (i.e. not torturing the bees)

I had between one and four most of the time for many years. 2 and only 2 would be difficult. You do a split in a good year to avoid a swarm, but you can combine in the fall or just into the flow to get more honey and less hives. You really can't keep it at a specific number but you can keep it in a range.

>2) What if the bees DO swarm? How do I remove the swarm or get them back into the hive? This has scared me since I really have no clue.

Swarms are the most exicting thing about beekeeping. You can always just let them go if you don't want that many bees. You can't get them "back in the hive" you can only put them in a new one until they settle down. Then eventually you can combine them with some other hive, but I'd wait for the swarm season to end.

>3) Has anyone been liable for an allergic bee sting due to beekeeping? I know the thought of being stung in a GARDEN sounds ludicrous but still...

The only suit I've heard of where a beekeeper was held liable was a worker who got stung a lot and his employer was held liable.

>4) What if work or personal distractions get in the way of keeping the hive? Could I back out some how and still give the bees a good home or retire them humanely?

Most any beekeeper would be happy to take a free hive...


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## Ardilla (Jul 17, 2006)

pisymbol said:


> One other thing I have to ask is I am thinking of taking a course on bee-keeping? Have folks done this and how good are they? Mine is taught by our local university's agriculture department. Its 2 days of course work and then a third day at the hive.


That sounds like a good course to get your feet wet and learn the basics. As you can tell from the previous posts thare are a lot of opinions. My opinion about the courses in general is that there is a lot of good information to be gleaned, but some of them advocate prophylactic medication too much.


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## laurelmtnlover (May 29, 2009)

A nice approach would be one of each kind of hive to promote beekeeping to the public. TBH need no extractors. Working a Lang would be interesting too. A beekeeping course would be a great way to start- but might not cover TBH, but it is totally doable without a class. (I was unable to do this with weekend work committment). 
All public gardens should have beehives. Good luck!


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## bigevilgrape (Aug 21, 2008)

pisymbol said:


> One other thing I have to ask is I am thinking of taking a course on bee-keeping? Have folks done this and how good are they? Mine is taught by our local university's agriculture department. Its 2 days of course work and then a third day at the hive.



You could also look at beekeeping assosiations, which can provide you with support thoughout the season. One of the clubs in my state even has newbee meetings before the acutal meetings start.


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## pisymbol (Feb 24, 2010)

Definitely, we have one in Central "Joisey" which I need to look into.

I just signed up for:

http://www.cpe.rutgers.edu/courses/current/ae0401cc.html

I am very excited and EXTREMELY terrified at the same time. This should be interesting. I must admit sometimes I have wild fantasies about the bees swarming and attacking a beekeeper. I get this because when I was in 4th grade many moons ago I had a to do a book report on African Bees.

Woah....that was scary!


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## NasalSponge (Jul 22, 2008)

Getting into a bee yard with an experienced beekeeper before you actually get bees will tell you things about yourself you really need to know before you start. For instance, when I became interested in bees I found a mentor and he took me to an out yard with 10 or 15 hives on a trailer, as I stood there in the mist of thousands of flying bees....well the experience was indescribable and unforgettable, there was an absolute absence of fear and a deep feeling of total wonderment, I was hooked in that one moment. If on the other hand you find yourself freaking out...... I guess I said all of that to say taking the course is a great idea, try to relax and enjoy the marvel that is the honeybee!


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

The reasons for having two hives is to have combs of open brood to use to resolve queen issues etc. If the combs are not interchangable, then this advantage is lost. I would pick one and do both the same kind at this point. After you feel comfortable and want more bees (yes, you will probably get bee fever and have trouble stopping at 100...) then you can try two of some other kind and still have a source for help for the other.


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## bigbore (Feb 25, 2008)

First of all, I agree whole heartedly with all the previous posts (but the one about TBH's being relic's). I worked in a building supply yard when I started, and scrap was easy to come by. If my wife knew how much I have I would be a dead man. I looked into TBH and Lang. I started with Langs, because it seemed like the "safest" to use for a beginner. I own a table saw, and a skill saw, so I had the tools available to make supers, and got a good deal from another keeper who was retiring from bees on frames.

About 4 months into beekeeping, I got up the nerve to try a cutout for a friend. while doing it, I had to remove some new comb full of capped brood, it colapsed on me and was destroyed. This made me glad I had decided to start with Lang's, it would be so much harder for a newbee to inspect TBH's without damage. I am not saying it can't be done, just that I personally would recomend starting with Langs. 

if you want 2 hives, get set up for 3, and if you see a swarm, and decide you don't want it, catch it, and trade it to some other beekeeper for replacement equiptment. it makes good friemds, and if you need some help, you have someone who knows you. Not that a beekeeper wouldn't help without it.

But then again remember this one thing " ask 10 beekeepers a question, and you will get 11 different answers". and make sure everyone who works or enters the community garden, knows there are honey bees on the grounds. And share them with everyone, it is a "community" garden after all.


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## mike haney (Feb 9, 2007)

keep in mind your bees will fly a 2 mile diameter in search of the best pollen/nectar so its not neccessary that they be close enough to the garden that the gardeners need have contact with the hive. in fact, if TOO close, they apparently have trouble (bee dance) communicating exactly where your garden is.


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## laurelmtnlover (May 29, 2009)

Michael Bush said:


> The reasons for having two hives is to have combs of open brood to use to resolve queen issues etc. If the combs are not interchangable, then this advantage is lost. I would pick one and do both the same kind at this point. After you feel comfortable and want more bees (yes, you will probably get bee fever and have trouble stopping at 100...) then you can try two of some other kind and still have a source for help for the other.


Good point Mr. Bush. I hope to get to two TBH this year. If my bees make it through this long winter here. Thanks.


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## pisymbol (Feb 24, 2010)

mike haney said:


> keep in mind your bees will fly a 2 mile diameter in search of the best pollen/nectar so its not neccessary that they be close enough to the garden that the gardeners need have contact with the hive. in fact, if TOO close, they apparently have trouble (bee dance) communicating exactly where your garden is.


Hmmm, so I need a good location. I have to think about that a bit. Depending on what garden we are trying to cultivate. My guess at least in one area, it won't really matter since there are gardenS all over the place.

Last year we looked for bees and didn't have too many. The only hive we found (and was removed) was a yellow-jacket nest. Man Wasps are nasty little insects.


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## mike haney (Feb 9, 2007)

40 feet or so away should be ok. nearby gardens are ok too- you'll have LOTS of bees. be aware of their flight path out the exit if very close, you dont want them crashing into your gardeners by accident.yes YJ's are mean critters and they will attack your bees so its good you got rid of them. good luck,mike


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## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

Space is usually limited in botanical gardens and residences. To reduce unexpected collisions, place the hive where the bees will have to fly up as soon as they exit the hive. A hedge, fence, building or any obstruction that makes them gain altitude will help. The gardeners and visitors at USF Botanical Gardens have been living with a hive for years. College classes, public school classes, and the general public not only come to see the plants, but also the bee hive that is pollinating and gathering nectar from the garden and surrounding college grounds. Considerable interest developed so that monthly workshops are taught at the USFBG for over a year. Pictured is an average class at the gardens.
http://americasbeekeeper.com/September2009 006.jpg


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## mike haney (Feb 9, 2007)

be aware that a govenment sponsored entity is insulated from lawsuits, legitimate or frivolous. good luck,mike


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## SSmithers (Jul 2, 2009)

I read a lot of books and joined a club, but the best thing was going to someones beeyard and getting in there. Most of my "what ifs" vanished . It's one thing to read about banging a frame to dislodge bees, thinking too much about doing it, and then just doing it. All the theory and classes in the world wouldn't have done me a bit of good if I had succumbed to my fears. When I got somebodys extra bees, I gave them partial sheets of foundation, which they draw out as much as they please, so its a bit of top bar in a box hive. They are doing just fine. I halfa## some stuff, because I'm cheap and lazy, and they do their bee jobs, because they're bees. 

But....read, read, read...then touch someone's bees. I still freak out abit thinking about opening my hive, but I get through it. And my experiments aren't killing them. And we're all having oodles of fun. I wasted a whole year on "what ifs" thinking.


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## pisymbol (Feb 24, 2010)

That's what I have done...I went to my first ever local beekeeper club and was welcomed with open arms. They have mentors that will allow you to watch and participate as well as workshops. I plan to attend a few.

What are the best books on beekeeping? I took out BeeKeeping for Dummies from my local library and it was so-so. I am also interested in the entomology/biological aspects of bees (but for a college educated guy, not a hard-core biologist).


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## Budster (Mar 24, 2006)

pisymbol said:


> So I have been interested in this hobby for a little while but never had the gumption to start it for a couple of reasons. But now, my fiancee is working very hard at a community garden and has said to me it might be nice to have some bee's buzzing alone to help it along. Sounds reasonable to me!
> 
> But here are my concerns after doing some reading on and off:
> 
> ...


What if a meteor fell out of the sky and hit me tomorrow? ;-) 

Question 1 - Your the beekeeper. If you only want 1 hive, only get 1 hive. If you want 50, get 50!

Question 2 - Do some research on swarm removal. If they do swarm, you take all of 10 minutes to shake them into another box and call it a day. They are bees. If they land somewhere too high, let them go. This is what bees do. Most of my swarm captures are done in 10 minutes tops, not counting travel time!

Question 3 - I'm sure somewhere, someone has. They are however honey bees. I'd take a bet that if you go to your local mall and round up 10 people who say they are allergic, testing would prove that 9.8 - 9.9 of them wouldn't be! Everybody who I talk to about bees always says "I'm allergic to bee stings". It's just a given. Sure, a bee sting "stings" and becomes swollen. My sister is truely allergic. She carries an epi-pen. No, she is not a beek. Everytime someone tells me they are allergic, I'd love to say "show me your epi-pen"!

Question 4 - This is easy. Once again, they are bees. They survive in nature without mans intervention all the time. They are great for the local foilage and plants. They will do what bees do... Pollinate, grow and prepare for winter, only to start all over again the next year.

I think you are over worried. Get one hive and put it out. It will stop all of your worries! Good luck and have fun and enjoy the bees!


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