# Its been a cold windy winter



## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

Ian said:


> The wind is howling against the house again tonight, -25degreesC with the next week looking colder... How anything lives in weather like this I don't know...


Ian, I am curious, can anything be done outside this time of year? Or are you guys basically holed up inside. Although I am a southerner I have fed cattle in open pasture in Vermont and saw temp of -10F with 25 MPH winds and was quite convinced that something as simple as a broken leg could cause one to die out in that weather. Are those pretty white cows inside?


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

I think this winter is affirming your choice of indoor wintering, and reading about it has been very interesting. I think I am about 8 hours south of you and we are supposed to get that cold wind tomorrow. It seems like this next week or so will be crunch time for those of us wintering outside with brood-rearing coinciding with another polar vortex.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

hpm08161947 said:


> Ian, I am curious, can anything be done outside this time of year? Or are you guys basically holed up inside. ... Are those pretty white cows inside?


We have lots of wind shelter and shedding for the cattle , and right now are over 3/4 done calving with about 325 calves which we calve out in an insulated barn. The cattle feed consumption has been consistently 25-30% higher this winter over our normal winter feed consumption. It makes me wonder if it holds the same for the outdoor wintering hives. I imagine so. There has been many outdoor wintering beekeepers switch to single hive winter management. With those large hives entering winter, I wonder if one box is going to be enough for them? Especially if this weather continues well into March! 

Time will tell.


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## JD's Bees (Nov 25, 2011)

Nice pictures. -31 last four mornings here and calling for same for another week. Can't complain too much though as we had almost two straight weeks of above 0C highs in January. So far this winter has been better than last year and already one month shorter!


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

oh boy, I bet the bees had a chance to stretch their wings a bit,?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/IanSteppler/media/IMG_0950_zps5c989f6c.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1

That picture of the sun dogs, was taken on a -32 degreeC morning as I was driving my youngest kid down to school, as she missed the bus...

We only tend to see those sun dogs when she is good and cold. We have been seeing them almost daily this winter and some days its the whole ring!!!


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Having grown up in Winnipeg, that shot of those sun dogs is a good reminder of why I moved. I can attest that sun dogs show up when "she is good and cold". Nice picture, almost got me shivering looking at it.

Jean-Marc


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## babybee (Mar 23, 2012)

We have had snow and ice 3 times down here in east Texas. Which is insane! My question to you Canadians is what would you do if this is a start of a new ice age?


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

babybee said:


> We have had snow and ice 3 times down here in east Texas. Which is insane! My question to you Canadians is what would you do if this is a start of a new ice age?


I don't know about the canadians, but me and my bees are heading for the great state of Texas.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

babybee said:


> We have had snow and ice 3 times down here in east Texas. Which is insane! My question to you Canadians is what would you do if this is a start of a new ice age?





wildbranch2007 said:


> I don't know about the canadians, but me and my bees are heading for the great state of Texas.


I was actually planning California !  All that beekeeping talk coming from Cali land has almost gotten me convinced!


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## dgl1948 (Oct 5, 2005)

Forecast for Saturday shows -39. We will not have to worry about mosquitos on that day.


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## dgl1948 (Oct 5, 2005)

I do not think the bees use as much feed when it gets cold. All activity in the hive slows right down. To me it seems they use the most when it warms to where there is more activity in the hive. We winter in two deeps and I have never seen these without a good carry over of honey in the spring. I have thought of trying a few singles as a test sometime but as of yet have not done it.



Ian said:


> We have lots of wind shelter and shedding for the cattle , and right now are over 3/4 done calving with about 325 calves which we calve out in an insulated barn. The cattle feed consumption has been consistently 25-30% higher this winter over our normal winter feed consumption. It makes me wonder if it holds the same for the outdoor wintering hives. I imagine so. There has been many outdoor wintering beekeepers switch to single hive winter management. With those large hives entering winter, I wonder if one box is going to be enough for them? Especially if this weather continues well into March!
> 
> Time will tell.


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## Chip Euliss (Sep 2, 2010)

babybee said:


> We have had snow and ice 3 times down here in east Texas. Which is insane! My question to you Canadians is what would you do if this is a start of a new ice age?


The last ice age sent Canadian 'soil fixings' (glacial till) all the way to Iowa. Maybe the US border would head way south too!!!!

Been cold and windy in North Dakota too. I read in the local paper yesterday that this was one of the 20 coldest winters on record. Weather guys are predicting a late spring due to the depth of the frost seal followed by hot and dry. I hope they're wrong!!


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

dgl1948 said:


> I do not think the bees use as much feed when it gets cold. All activity in the hive slows right down. To me it seems they use the most when it warms to where there is more activity in the hive.




ya you might be right, but follow the basic laws of "**** load of cold requires a **** load of feed" , feed is going to be a valuable asset by mid to late March


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

Ian, what month do you put the bees in the shed and take them out?


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## honeydrunkapiaries (Oct 16, 2013)

I feel for you Ian! Here in Ontario I am hearing reports of anything from 30-100% die outs. Im currently at 75%. As far as the comment of using more food, I read a study that -5% they use the least food, and higher or lower temps they will consume more. I know a few people who decided to "cellar" their bees (mostly nucs) this year and they are all doing great. Maybe a practice for us Ontario beeks to adopt!


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

jmgi said:


> Ian, what month do you put the bees in the shed and take them out?


I put them in beginning of Nov, take them out end of March I hope


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## jmgi (Jan 15, 2009)

Ian, in the picture it looks like they are wintering in a single medium box, or am I wrong?


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## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

On Friday, we had 9C with bees flying, all checking out the hazelnut tree that's on the verge of starting. Then old man winter came for a visit Saturday afternoon, and by Monday morning, everything was buried under 12 inches of fresh wet snow. I had to forego the traditional vancouver island method of snow removal on monday, and actually get a machine to clear a path on the driveway so the wife could go to work. It just kept dumping after that was done, got another 4 inches or so on top of my freshly cleaned out driveway. For the second dump, we are clearing the traditional vancouver island method, sit back and wait for the rain, it will arrive later today.


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## Colino (May 28, 2013)

babybee said:


> We have had snow and ice 3 times down here in east Texas. Which is insane! My question to you Canadians is what would you do if this is a start of a new ice age?


We would probably hold a BarBque party. Canadians don't stop doing things outside until 2 degrees above absolute zero.


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## Colino (May 28, 2013)

Ian said:


> http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/IanSteppler/media/IMG_0950_zps5c989f6c.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1
> 
> That picture of the sun dogs, was taken on a -32 degreeC morning as I was driving my youngest kid down to school, as she missed the bus...
> 
> We only tend to see those sun dogs when she is good and cold. We have been seeing them almost daily this winter and some days its the whole ring!!!


Man you can tell that's cold because the Sun dogs are really bright. I've noticed that the brighter they are the colder it is. If it's relatively warm and you see bright Sun dogs, get ready for some cold cause it's a coming.


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Ian said:


> I put them in beginning of Nov, take them out end of March I hope


What temp do you like to wait for before bringing them out?


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## Allen Martens (Jan 13, 2007)

jmgi said:


> Ian, what month do you put the bees in the shed and take them out?


Ian very optimistic about how early he can move them out, but then he does live in Miami. 

For the last 10 springs I have typically moved my bees out around April 7 or slightly later. Twice I moved out in March; once in the middle and one at the end. Last year was incredibly late; April 25.


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

Which is colder - Sask, Manitoba, or AB?

How about tractors, trucks, bobcats etc... does one generally have a big heated garage or are dip stick heaters enough?


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## Colino (May 28, 2013)

hpm08161947 said:


> Which is colder - Sask, Manitoba, or AB?
> 
> How about tractors, trucks, bobcats etc... does one generally have a big heated garage or are dip stick heaters enough?


I think Manitoba is the coldest followed by Saskatchewan, that's from just watching the national weather so it might not be 100% accurate. I'm in the southeastern corner of Alberta and we have the benefit of Chinooks. Although we still will get -40 weather it generally doesn't last that long. This winter we have had it fairly easy and really cold weather hasn't lasted more than a couple weeks at a time. Mostly it's been around 0 Celsius or a little below that and when the polar vortex's have hit we have just been on the edge of it not smack dab in the middle like Manitoba. As for vehicles I have dip stick heaters and I haven't even used them this winter.


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## Birds&Bees (Feb 26, 2009)

I think wintered hives often starve when stimulated too early to brood. This cold weather will ensure that won't happen. I've had my outdoor singles buried in snow since mid December. There is so much snow cover now that these severe winds should have no chilling effect on the hives. I do hope we get spring in April and not in May as we did last year. Over half survived last year with winter lasting until May so I hope we'll get 60+ percent make it this year. California packages would be nice, eventually they will be allowed to come in.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

jmgi said:


> Ian, in the picture it looks like they are wintering in a single medium box, or am I wrong?


yup,all my inside hives are in singles


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Birds&Bees said:


> There is so much snow cover now that these severe winds should have no chilling effect on the hives.


Thats key, they will be sitting tight under that snow for sure!

have you checked in on how they are doing?


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

babybee said:


> My question to you Canadians is what would you do if this is a start of a new ice age?


I was just reading an article recently that was saying while it has been a colder then average winter in North America, on a Global average it has been one of the warmest on record.


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## irwin harlton (Jan 7, 2005)

Allan Dick's pre spring inspection on outdoor wintered hives Feb 26/14 http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/default.htm
Bees have survived several ice ages in Europe
from CTV NEWS
Published Wednesday, February 26, 2014 5:55PM CST
Last Updated Wednesday, February 26, 2014 7:47PM CST

According to Environment Canada, Winnipeg hasn’t seen a winter this frigid in decades.

“This is the second-coldest winter in Winnipeg in 75 years,” said David Phillips from Environment Canada.

Only the year 1939 was colder.
Related Stories

Deep-freeze poses challenges for home builders, some farmers in Manitoba

Photos
Cold snap in Manitoba

While many are hoping for a warm up soon, Environment Canada said the March forecast for Manitoba looks to be colder than normal.

Since November, the city has seen 26 days of temperatures reaching below -30 without wind chill. In a normal year, Winnipeg would only see about 12 days that cold.

The last time we had a winter this cold was in 1979.

Winnipeg has also seen 50 per cent more snow than normal this winter.

While many are hoping for a warm up soon, Environment Canada said the March forecast for Manitoba looks to be colder than normal.

Read more: http://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/winnipeg-sees-second-coldest-winter-in-75-years-1.1705684#ixzz2uUClNGx3


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Allen Martens said:


> Ian very optimistic about how early he can move them out, but then he does live in Miami.


The way I see it, we have very little snow cover, other than the drifts in our yard. Once this cold weather shifts the fields will take about one week to blacken. The key is for the cold to shift... just think, this winter will be just a memory in a couple months,

We are on the back side of her boys!!

I listened to David Phillips with Adler this morning. David guaranteed that next winter would not be as cold as this one!! LOL I take it this winter is the high water mark! No doubt


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## Birds&Bees (Feb 26, 2009)

Ian, I've taken my snowmobile to visit some yards, the snow was almost waist deep. This is the most snow we've had in many years. I did not want to disturb any hives nor did I want to damage the quincy protecting the hives. Spring or lack of will tell the tale.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

You guys must have gotten more snow than we did here around Miami. Our fields have bout 6 inches at the most, but large snow drifts in the yards but thats due to this winters terrible winds. 

Last year we had feet of snow as compared to inches this winter. 

I'm bracing myself for a good old Montana Mauler to drop a bunch on us yet.

Walked the isles in the wintering shed today. The hives look to be content, but they usually do end of February. Now comes March... it seems our winter are just one month too long... and it is during March I start longing for the package hive days....

don't you guys agree? toss this wintering idea and focus on honey production! Our equipment will be in better shape without the mess of wintering, medications can be pretty much eliminated, work load spring and fall is cut in half, that tanker truck of sugar will not have to show in the fall,.... endless advantages!


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## Allen Martens (Jan 13, 2007)

I keep hearing that there isn't as much snow this year many parts of MB. Not true for eastern MB. We have more snow already than we would normally get in an average year.

With all the blowing the fields have very little snow and will turn black very quickly.


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## Ben Little (Apr 9, 2012)

Cold here as well , another snowfall coming Monday around 15 cm. I hope that it is the last one !! 

Does anyone know if the winter snow has any bearing on the growing season ahead ? I hear people talk on what they think it means, but is it a good thing to have lots of snow before spring ? 

We have had some cleansing flights here and I was glad to see them, I have lost some hives this winter and probably won't be the end of it the way my luck is. I went through some deadouts and found lots of frames full of honey and pollen, but the amount of bees were very low and when they were put to bed for the winter, they were really full of bees. I have to get the hives really booming for next winter I guess, I didn't see any signs of diseases in the deadouts and the mite loads were low , I had a 1% average in the hives in fall.

I suppose it was just me missing something in the fall. I will just have to do better !


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## Allen Martens (Jan 13, 2007)

I'm not ready to toss out wintering in favour of packages just yet Ian.

Spring work would be much less. Maybe half? My first year beekeeping I started with 200 packages and that was definitely a lot less work than working with wintered bees. I really enjoy the spring work but fishing is more fun. Fall work is about the same in my opinion. Cleaning up hives is a bunch of work too. I open feed so I no longer find this to time consuming.

For the most part I feel I don't need packages. I haven't purchased bees in 10 years (other than the 20 excellent hives I acquired from you, Ian, but didn't need - but that's another story) and have increased my hive count by 250% during those 10 years. One or two of the years I probably should have purchased some packages but things worked out.

From an economic stand point, wintering makes most sense to me. It cost me about $45 per hive to winter and maintain my numbers. Historically I've had a 10% surplus, so at $100 a package (which is probably the cheapest US bees will be when all is said and done) that reduces my cost by $10 to $35. Building up packages in spring I estimated would cost me $15 per package. Packages would need to be priced at $20 for me to break even. One has to go way back to find those prices.

Just my 2 cents and YMMV.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

One of the commercial beeks here sells all his bees to a concern that comes in October and shakes them off his equipment. He said they pay him about half of what he paid for the 2 pound Packages in the spring. He puts together brood nests over winter and starts new pkg in mid April. Gets as good a crop as my overwintered bees, but I am splitting mine pretty aggressively.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Allen Martens said:


> (other than the 20 excellent hives I acquired from you, Ian, but didn't need - but that's another story)


ha ha, I just figured you son flipped them for $100 profit and ran! lol


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## dgl1948 (Oct 5, 2005)

Allen Martens said:


> I keep hearing that there isn't as much snow this year many parts of MB. Not true for eastern MB. We have more snow already than we would normally get in an average year.
> 
> With all the blowing the fields have very little snow and will turn black very quickly.


We are in the South East corner of Sask. and snow is about normal maybe even a little less. Maybe all this wind is moving our snow over to you Allen.
We are about the same as you when it comes to packages. We have not bought any for quite a few years now. We are just trying to raise our own from hardy stock. Now if we could just find sweaters for them we would have it made.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Allen Martens said:


> I'm not ready to toss out wintering in favour of packages just yet Ian.


given the opportunity to buy in $100 April packages, Id have a standing order of 500, winter my best.


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## Allen Martens (Jan 13, 2007)

Ian said:


> ha ha, I just figured you son flipped them for $100 profit and ran! lol


Pretty close. Careers get in the way of plans at times. He did alright though when he flipped them.


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## Allen Martens (Jan 13, 2007)

dgl1948 said:


> We are in the South East corner of Sask. and snow is about normal maybe even a little less.


MB released their first flood report today and it doesn't sound like they are expecting much flooding.


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## HiveOnTheHill (Jun 17, 2011)

First year wintering in this yard - no worries of not enough snow cover here. It may be June before that mountain melts
That is Jan15 & Mar 01


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Today high of +4, tonight low of -1, tomorrow high of +5, low of -7 ...

been a while coming... first mild melting days of the entire winter

This forecast reminds me of the forecast I put my bees out last year middle of April... LOL


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## irwin harlton (Jan 7, 2005)

Feeding pollen sub patties march12/14

http://s43.photobucket.com/user/buzz1356/media/MVI_0504.mp4.html


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

looks awesome Irwin, my computer isnt quick enough to run that vid,
What do your losses look like this year?


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

I have seen global looking patties and I have seen bees, what I want to see is how that wrap opens up and is secured at the top! Please details!! Top entrance? hole in upper brood box? Thanks.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

irwin harlton said:


> Feeding pollen sub patties march12/14


Very impressive!!


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## Ben Little (Apr 9, 2012)

What are your temperatures there ? I will be getting a load of sub (hopefully) next week and I want to get in them and give them a patty or 2 as well  But the temps around here are still -10 or something close to that lately . I am a bit paranoid when it comes to getting in them too early .

Also wanted to say Great looking hives !


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

-10 degreesC, ya


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## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

Ben Little said:


> But the temps around here are still -10 or something close to that lately


I always thought your temps out on the other coast were similar to ours on the west coast. I think spring has sprung out here now, rain is coming down hard, no trace of any snow left anymore, and the hazelnuts have started. We had a bout of -15C a few weeks ago, but here's what the last 30 days have looked like. The two long flatline periods between 1 and 2 degrees in late feb and early march, were a few days of heavy snow. Lost a lot of bees on the nice days right after the snow came down, they came out of the hive in the bright sunshine, landed in the snow, and that was the end of them.



We are starting to watch overnite temps carefully now. When we bought this place last summer, the back half was a stump farm. Had the big yellow machine in during January, now it's level dirt with a burn pile. I'm getting impatient waiting to put some seed down.


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## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

Ian said:


> looks awesome Irwin, my computer isnt quick enough to run that vid,


My computer doesn't play it properly either, and it's plenty quick, 8 core yadda yadda, all the high end stuff. My iPad on the other hand, plays it flawlessly.


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## Barry Digman (May 21, 2003)

irwin harlton said:


> Feeding pollen sub patties march12/14


Very nice. It's always impressive to me to see people who know what they're doing work their bees. When I see guys working them without gloves or veils it makes me wonder what's wrong with my bees.


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## irwin harlton (Jan 7, 2005)

to see people who know what they're doing work their bees.
What i know you could put on the head of a pin ,what I don't know,well you could fill the universe...then there's the danger or sting factor,always nice to keep your resistance up

patties and I have seen bees, what I want to see is how that wrap opens up and is secured at the top! Please details!!

Sorry should show that, ....many varieties of the same wrap,in the way they are sealed at the top,by different beekeepers, but all essentially the same, all would have a top entrance,mine is 3/4" X3/4",we just staple the wrap flange to our plywood winter top,wraps are made by Inland plastic's Saskatoon,.KEEPING BEES and insulation DRY is essential.We have 4'' of Styrofoam or polystyrene plus an inland bag and cover, well over 30R factor.
BEES DON'T FREEZE TO DEATH, THEY STARVE or die from mites,nosema, viruses


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