# Notch in Inner Cover Down or Up



## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

Where do you place notch in inner cover for winter? Down or Up?

Been placing mine down for winter, but one hive did get quite a bit of mildew on underside of outer cover. Have 2 inch of styrofoam on under side of inner cover as well as a piece of fiber ceiling tile.

Also install a feeder rim with a 3/4 round hole immediately above top brood box, so I have a top entrance.

Wondering if "Up" would work better as it provides some air movement in otherwise dead air space between inner and outer covers.

Another option is to slightly raise outer cover with popsicle stick width.


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## Honey Hive Farms (Nov 1, 2012)

Honey Hive Farms,

I like your thinking here, it is pretty important to keep the moisture out of the hive. Cracking the lid/top is a fine idea. 
If you have a screened bottom board you could leave it open around a inch or two would help the air move through the hive. If not a larger instance but if you in a state like Missouri we have to use mouse guards in the winter to keep the mice out.

NOTE:
Crack the tope about a pencil size in the back so air is drawn from the front entrance to the back top

Tim Moore


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## beegeorge (Apr 19, 2012)

some manufacturers mark the inner covers with "THIS SIDE UP" on the notched side


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## merince (Jul 19, 2011)

I leave the notch down and I use 2" foam board on top of the inner cover. No moisture issues for the last 4 years. Could it be that the outer cover is leaking or snow got blown in there and melted?


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## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

No, brand new metal roof on hive and metal roof above that. Snow cannot blow into area above inner cover. 

It is condensation of moist air that gets trapped between inner cover and outer cover. Needs some venting and just wondering about notch up as that would provide exhausting moist air.


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## Andrew Dewey (Aug 23, 2005)

I place mine with the notch down for winter, cover the hole with duct tape, place a piece of blue insulation on top of the inner cover, and then place the outer cover on top of the insulation. The insulation serves to lift the outer cover enough so that the notch is unimpeded. I then run a strap around the entire hive. I'm also wrapping the hive with roofing paper and reducing the entrance to the small opening in a standard entrance reducer.


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

I leave mine down all year long. Upper entrance for those that wish to use it and provides good air flow that is unhindered by the telescopic cover. 
For winterization, I place a 3/4" insulation board on top of the inner cover so it rests on the actual inner cover plywood (not on the framework) and then the telescopic cover. Never had moisture issues.
I don't use any kind of "fiber tile" as I believe it absorbes too much moisture that the bees can't easily get to. This in itself can cause issues with moisture.
Bees will drink moisture droplets from the inner cover during the winter.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

When I used to use inner covers I put the notch facing down at the back of the hive (high end) for summer ventilation. Winter time the notch would be facing up and would be at the front of the hive (low side). In cooler weather the condensation that formed on the inside of the outer cover would drip down on the inner cover and then drain out the notch. 

I'm not really clear on how you have your insulation set up so this might not apply in your case.


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## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

Outer cover top to bottom is sheet metal, 3/4 plywood, 2 inch styrofoam, and 1/2 inch ceiling tile. My thinking is that the ceiling tile will absorb moisture and minimize dripping.

I am inclined to try notch up at front and slide outer as far to front as I can, to get some ventilation between inner and outer cover.

Another option is store inner cover and try a quilt box.


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## ccar2000 (Aug 9, 2009)

I gleaned this information from another member. SQKCRK I believe? I may be wrong.

My understanding on why Inner Covers are used and how they are used are for a small number of reasons.

1. It makes getting the outer cover off easier since the bees will usually only glue down the Inner Cover around the edges. Usually.

2. To maintain bee space between the top bars and the lid, when the shallow side is down for the Spring to Fall.

3. The deep side is to provide more room above the top bars while they are typically not making burr comb, so, during the winter, the cluster can have more than bee space above the top bars.

I machined the 3/8" notch in the deeper side of the inner cover and keep it to the front. You can slide the telescoping cover back or forward to change the size of the opening depending if you want the bees to use it as an entrance or not.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Another thought would be, notch front or back? I have had returning virgins enter the honey supers above the excluder when notch is turned to the front. I now turn it to the back when supers are on. Queen leaves the front, returns to the font.


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## merince (Jul 19, 2011)

odfrank said:


> Another thought would be, notch front or back? I have had returning virgins enter the honey supers above the excluder when notch is turned to the front. I now turn it to the back when supers are on. Queen leaves the front, returns to the font.


Thanks for this one, odfrank!


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## lingleybros (Aug 20, 2012)

Ok, I have a stupid question, every inner cover I have and have seen has notches on all 4 sides. Do some only have one notch that then the outer cover can be slid back against to "close" when you want to?


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## ccar2000 (Aug 9, 2009)

I had to put one in mine. I guess all inner covers are not created equal.


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## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

lingleybros said:


> Ok, I have a stupid question, every inner cover I have and have seen has notches on all 4 sides. Do some only have one notch that then the outer cover can be slid back against to "close" when you want to?


Here's a link to the version of inner cover being discussed. If it does not take you all the way, then look under inner cover.

http://www.beemaidbeestore.com/product.php?txtCatID=59&txtProdID=89

Notch is 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 wide.

Notch Up or Down for winter???????????????? I already have an upper entrance via a 3/4 hole in a feeder rim, so I'm likely going to try notch up.


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

Not a stupid question lingleybros. Some have none, some have multiple. Just depends on the manufacturer. 
I make everything I need, so mine get one... seems like one is all that is needed so far.
I never close mine off even during transporting hives. I usually screen off the openings to keep the ventillation going.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

I generally have my inner covers notch down year round. For the winter I place a piece of Homasote over the inner cover. If I should need to feed, an empty box is placed on the inner cover and the Homasote is placed on the empty box to insulate the "attic".


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## Spur9 (Sep 13, 2016)

Resurrecting an old thread because it's the closest I could find to somewhat help me with an issue.

I had a buddy make me a quilt box for my 8 framer. He did a great job, but did not put a top entrance on the qb. The bottom board of the qb is flush with the frame, so I can't add a notch.

I thought about placing my notched inner cover under the qb. I don't have a concern for the bottom entrance being blocked. My thinking was that the inner cover would add ventilation.

Now my pea brain is thinking that the air space between the inner cover and bottom of qb will be as cold as the outside air because the inner cover notch. Leading to condensation forming on the bottom of the inner cover.

Looking for advice/suggestions on how to proceed.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

On my Warre Quilt Boxes I added a rim on the bottom with the upper entrance.


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## Fivej (Apr 4, 2016)

The inner cover will interfere with the function of the quilt box. I think the best solution is to ask your friend to make a shim with a hole for an entrance. This will also allow you to feed if necessary. It sounds like your friend knows what he is doing so making a shim will only take him 15 minutes with a beer break. J


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

Spur9 said:


> Now my pea brain is thinking that the air space between the inner cover and bottom of qb will be as cold as the outside air because the inner cover notch. Leading to condensation forming on the bottom of the inner cover.


Good catch, you are exactly right about the possibility of condensation forming on the inner cover if it is under the quilt box. If you are using one, the inner cover needs to be above the quilt box.

Since the quilt box is already built to your satisfaction I would suggest building another 1 1/2" rim to place under the quilt box, with a 3/4" hole drilled in it to serve as an entrance and upper ventilation. Quick and easy to put one together and it will solve your problem. If you do this you may want to consider making it a little taller so it could also serve as a rim for sugar blocks, if that need should ever arise.

* I see Fivej has similar thoughts.


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## Spur9 (Sep 13, 2016)

With 3+ months of cold & humid weather still in store here, shimming seems like the best route.

Mike G - the ic is currently notch up under the qb That's what made me wonder if a pocket of cold air would develop in the gap between the two pieces.

Not that the difference would be significant, what do u think about flipping the ic to notch down? Cold air would not travel directly into the space between the qb & ic. Moisture rising up would vent out the entrance in ic. Or it would travel up into qb.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Mike Gillmore said:


> Good catch, you are exactly right about the possibility of condensation forming on the inner cover if it is under the quilt box. If you are using one, the inner cover needs to be above the quilt box.
> 
> Since the quilt box is already built to your satisfaction I would suggest building another 1 1/2" rim to place under the quilt box, with a 3/4" hole drilled in it to serve as an entrance and upper ventilation. Quick and easy to put one together and it will solve your problem. If you do this you may want to consider making it a little taller so it could also serve as a rim for sugar blocks, if that need should ever arise.


My rendition of what Mike is suggesting. The one and a half by one and a half material give the opportunity to provide a baffled upper entrance and enough space for feed. The quilt box with its screened bottom goes above.

The material is thick enough to drill a hole in from the front face, a bit more than half way and then drill an intersecting hole in from the bottom face. wallow out the bottom opening a bit to give free access in from the frame tops. Keeps the wind from blowing directly in, provides mouse barrier, and feed ring


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

Interesting. I use 1.5" shims with a 5/8" hole bored into one end. Above that I put a piece of 1" builder's foam cut to fit and above that either an outer cover or a migratory one. Serves me well from late fall until I put supers on. Makes feeding easy. 

Have a lot of them shims because I get 1.5" scraps when I build deeps out of 1 x 12's. Use them for the moth crystals under stacks of supers to protect the wax. (tape the holes up)


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## rolftonbees (Jul 10, 2014)

Not all inner covers are the same. Not all knotches are the same.

The knotches in my covers are not large enought for bees to move through. My covers have the board in a grove such that there is bee space between it and the frame bars if it is turned properly. In this case knotch up. 

Some inner covers are different and can be used as top entrances. Othes as feeder boards. Know your wood ware.


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## Gazelle (May 17, 2015)

Any reason you can't have a notch on both sides?


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## Dan the bee guy (Jun 18, 2015)

Gazelle said:


> Any reason you can't have a notch on both sides?


I've seen a lot of differant ways inner covers can be built. Most of the ones I have have the ply wood in the center off set so there is 3/8 bee space when the notch is up the space is about 5/8 when the notch is down.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Dan the bee guy said:


> Most of the ones I have have the ply wood in the center off set so there is 3/8 bee space when the notch is up the space is about 5/8 when the notch is down.


But that's wrong...if bee space is at the top of the box. One side of the inner should be flat, and the other side should be recessed with that notch.


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## Dan the bee guy (Jun 18, 2015)

Michael Palmer said:


> But that's wrong...if bee space is at the top of the box. One side of the inner should be flat, and the other side should be recessed with that notch.


Yes the notch is on the deeper side. In the 70s when I got my first bees they told me to put the notch up with the right bee space on the bottom of the inner cover in the summer. Then flip the inner cover in the winter for more ventilation notch down and upper entrance. My measurements are from the top bar to the ply wood.


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## rwlaw (May 4, 2009)

When I bought my first equipment from Betterbee, they had the shallow and deep side inner covers, with the notch on the deep side. If one didn't flip it right away in the spring, the bees would have that area filled with comb PDQ.


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