# Do you use an inner cover or not and why



## MAB52 (Jan 20, 2013)

So do you use an inner cover or not and why? I have seen several youtubes and such and I've noticed that some do and some don't use them so I am just trying to find out the why's and why not's. I appreciate all your help so far and will probably have a few more crazy questions.

Mike


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## Beregondo (Jun 21, 2011)

Nope.
I've only got one box with a tele cover and it has a feedbag (cut down to size) instead.

The rest of the boxes have migratory covers or just a piece of 1/2" ext ply cut to size and don't need anything to keep the box from getting stuck on, as I can slip a hive tool into the crack btw it and the top box.


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

Mike, there is nothing crazy about your question at all.
Telescopic lids with inner covers are the way to go in a smaller operation hands down.
If I could, all of our hives would have inner and outer covers.
I think they winter better. Also, emergency winter feeding is easier.
Where the hang-up occurs however is when you get to the quantities that focus on loading trucks.
If you boom hives with telescopic lids onto your bed you will only be able to have 5 hives across.
The outer cover takes up an additional 2 1/2" per hive space.
With migratory lids you can have 6 hives across the bed. Big differance.
Palletized, your issue is the same but different. They will fit fine across the bed but will hog excess room down the length of the bed.
Anyway, my opinion is that if you can get away with using inner and outer covers in your scale of operation, I would do it.
I still have about 80 of them and folks always want to buy them from me but we use them at the home yard on and off with new hives. Unfortunatly, they all get migratory lids at some point prior to almonds.
Do what works best in your operation!


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

On a small scale like HV said, the telescopic cover with inner cover is the way to go. Reasons why include: It is easier to remove the telescopic cover with an inner cover because the bees can't propolise the telescopic cover down. I've seen some TC cemented down with propolis without an inner cover. Also with this combination, you get the added benefit of a top entrance AND hive ventilation.


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

I use feed bag inner covers (FBIC's) on my nucs with 2 inch pink foamular styrofoam on top of that weighed down with a rock. The styrofoam gives an insulation value of R-10, and for as long as my wife's geriatric chickens are alive I have a free supply of feed bags. 
On my ten frame hives I have some standard inner covers, and telescopic covers with 2 inch styrofoam between the them. I also have some of those ventilated inner covers that have the multiple drilled holes in the walls covered with #8 mesh - they were a lot of work to make and I probably won't make any more.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

I guess you could say I do both. I don't see any advantage to inner covers in the Spring/Summer/Fall so I don't use them Instead, i use a 3/4 thick Advantec migratory top, that has the feeder hole cut in it. When not feeding, this hole can be closed with a solid Mason jar lid, or if you want ventilation in the Winter, place some screen over the hole after the bees have begun to cluster, then place a telescoping cover over them. I put a telescoping cover over all of them during the Winter. 

If I want to feed in February or March, all I have to do is take the telescoping cover off, pop out the solid Mason jar cap, and place a 1/2 gal. or 1 gallon jar of syrup on the hive. I use all glass jars so they do not expand and contract and leak syrup. If it turns cold, I can place the solid cap back in the hole, and either leave it that way or place the telescoping cover back on. Makes it really easy to feed without opening the hive in February and March. This type of feeding seals the jar lid and the Advantec top and eliminates robbers/ants, etc, around the top of the hive. 

In areas of lots of SHB the traditional inner cover, gives the beetles a place to hide and the bees spend a lot of time chasing them around on the inner cover. The 3/4 inch, migratory type cover eliminates that area.

cchoganjr


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## brooksbeefarm (Apr 13, 2008)

It's a matter of choice, my self i've gone to mostly migratory lids, the reason is that i have less SHB problems. When i used inner covers and took the lid off a hive there would be 20 to 30 bees holding shb in a corner of the inner cover.With migratory lids they don't have that extra place to hide and tie up some of the work force. Like above i do move them around to different out yards and migratory lids are better for moving them.


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## mmiller (Jun 17, 2010)

I started my first 20 or so hives using telescoping covers with an inner cover. My only complaint is price if I purchase them or time if I build them. I've gone to migratory for these reasons. After using the migratory with the "cleats" on front and back for a couple seasons I started using 3/4" plywood the same dimension as the box. I like this by far for its simplicity. In the winter I run a 3/4" spacer under it with a 1" opening for ventilation and alternate entrance should they plug the bottom with dead bees. I haven't seen a difference in wintering success between the two styles. For feeding I have seperate covers that have a hole for the jar lid and use an empty deep on top with the cover.


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## Steven Tervort (Feb 16, 2012)

I don't use an inner cover or a telescoping cover. I find it easier to make a migratory covers out of a piece of plywood. Problem is, you have to make sure that the hive stays covered. This winter I had a problem with water getting in a hive because I left a gap between the cover and the hive. Stupid mistake, but it cost me my best hive. Here is the post I did about it. I like the idea of the inner cover and telescoping cover. I just find it easier to make migratory covers. They seem to work fine... as long as I make sure to cover the bees.  If I had the money to buy them, or the time to make them, I would use an inner cover and telescoping cover.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

I don't use an inner cover because I use a migratory type lid. I do use a piece of 1/2" sound board during cold months under that cover. Maybe that is my inner cover.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

I make my own.
I incorporate top entrance spacer with inner cover that has two holes that fit mason jars for feeding.


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## MAB52 (Jan 20, 2013)

Thanks for all the great information, much appreciated
FlowerPlanter and everyone actually, it would be nice to see a pic if possible.
Harry, are you in CA now, I was thinking of possibly stopping by and visiting, if you have visitors.


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

I build these out of scrap materials, costs me labor is all.








Work in progress. Woodenware is going to be preserved clear and I plan on a "copper" top. 
The wifes garden surprise.... shhhhhhhh.


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## westernbeekeeper (May 2, 2012)

Your wife will be happy with that! If I had a wife, she would be!


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

MAB52... here are photos, (as requested) of the migratory covers I run all summer, then as described above, I cover these with a telescoping cover in Winter.









These are made from Advantec, 3/4 inch thick, makes late Winter/ early Spring feeding easy, provides ventilation in Winter if you replace the solid jar cap with wire mesh, and a telescoping cover. less Small Hive Beetle hiding room in the Summer, easy to remove, Can be used as is,( notice the ones in the photo are not painted,) (of course you can paint them). Probably other reasons.

cchoganjr


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## NasalSponge (Jul 22, 2008)

Yes, yes I do use an inner cover! Because I like them.


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## MAB52 (Jan 20, 2013)

Thanks Beeman, I think she will be impressed, nice job!! :applause:
Nice yard Cleo, thanks for the pictures. Did you make your stands as well, very clean looking.:applause:


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

MAB52,, No, actually I bought 35 of those stands for $5.00 each about 15 years ago. An old beekeeper, who also owned an oil well drilling company had his welding crew build them from 2 inch heavy wall steel pipe. They did an excellent job building them. They will accommodate 3, 4, 5 or 6, hives per frame. Here are a couple more photos of them in use.

















cchoganjr


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

I prefer an inner cover and a telescoping outer cover. I think it's better for keeping water out, and provides considerable insulation (lots of newspapers under the metal on top , too). 

However, once you start loading hives on pallets or trucks, you will start using migratory covers. Name says it all, I think. I'm not moving hives at the moment, but will probably start this year to follow honey flow -- we have lots of black locust trees in the area, and some highways have huge amounts of yellow sweet clover in the right-of-way, and I'd like to take advantage of that. Won't be moving more than a couple hives, though, so they will still have telescoping covers.

We tend to get thunderstorms here a lot, and I don't trust a migratory cover to keep the hive dry. 

Peter


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## Adam Foster Collins (Nov 4, 2009)

I use feed bags for inner covers.

Adam


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## MAB52 (Jan 20, 2013)

Adam and Adrian, do you cut the feed bags to fit or just give them a fold or two and put them on? Do either of you have a pic?


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

I cut them to fit leaving about an inch overlap.
http://s1110.beta.photobucket.com/user/AdrianQuineyWI/media/2012-11-01142142.jpg.html?sort=6&o=41


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## MattDavey (Dec 16, 2011)

I've begun to make my lids the same as the base, so they can be used as a top entrance. 

The only cover I have is a piece of vinyl flooring cut about 1 inch shorter than each inside edge. So there is about a 1/4" gap above each end of comb for bees to have direct access to the comb from the top entrance.

Matthew Davey


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## WilliamsHoneyBees (Feb 17, 2010)

Yes I use inner covers on my 10 frame colonies. I like the convenience of the inner cover hole to feed, I also like to use the notch in the inner cover during winter to help evacuate some of that moisture, and keep those bees from gluing a telescoping lid down to the frames. On my nucs I use all migratory lids though. But that is so I can scoot them together during winter.


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

Yes and no here also. When I was making my gear out of dimensional lumber I would put a dato in the bottom and put in some plywood. When the glue dried I cut it off and had perfect inner cover and help keeping the hive body squared. Thought I was clever. Now I have been building from rough cut lumber and just cut the hive to the correct dimensions. Some of my plywood covers need an extra brick to hold them down from warping.
http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n599/6minz/2011_01190022.jpg


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## Adam Foster Collins (Nov 4, 2009)

MAB52 said:


> Adam and Adrian, do you cut the feed bags to fit or just give them a fold or two and put them on? Do either of you have a pic?


I cut them to fit, and then I draw them back a bit so the bees can get by it as I have top entrances similar to Mike Bush's.

Adam


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## max2 (Dec 24, 2009)

I used to use telescopic covers but with the arrival of SHB I found that they provided more hiding places for them.
I use now an inner cover plus a migratory lid - and yet I never move my hives.


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## captaintat2 (Oct 27, 2012)

OK, I haven't seen any responses that really sell the concept of using inner covers other than to prevent the telescoping lid from being propolized down thus making it difficult to remove. I live in a tropical area and am wondering about how it helps/hinders the temperature of the hive. Any input would be most appreciated.


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

In my earlier post.....

Also with this combination, you get the added benefit of a top entrance AND hive ventilation.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

What we move south we don't as we use migratory covers and much of what we winter in the north have migratory covers. Having said that we have been discussing wintering in NY with all inner covers and telescoping lids because they:
1) Alow us a higher level of "control" over the ventilation in winter. I think a top with direct ventilation or heat loss such as a migratory cover if they are used alone in winter, would be more heat loss for the "hive" area than if we have a controlled ventilation by proping the telescoping lid with a could of queen cages on top of the inner cover at the front and a telescoping cover on top. Although the cluster does not heat the hive space there is still a loss of residual heat given off by the cluster if the heat is just allowed to rise and leave through a "chimney" created by too much top ventilation. This would require more energy for the cluster to winter successfully. We've found a great difference between too little, just right and too much winter ventilation. We have hives winter successfully in singles with migratories but we find they do better with the inner cover - telescoping set up.
2) Allows us to peak into a hive we are concerned about on a cold winter day without exposing the whole cluster to cold as we can peak through the hole in the inner cover.
3) Helps prevent robbing as you only have a small opening in the inner cover which can be defended by a few guard bees. We know on our migratory lids, once robbing behavior begins in a yard it takes scads of bees to defend the openings.
4) As Beeman indicated the hole is perfect for winter top feeding with a quart jar of warm syrup and it's useful to throw a hadful of granulated sugar on as well.
5) Prying a propolised telesoping lid is usually difficult and often causes damage to the lid.

We found with top entrances we had bees putting a great deal more pollen in honey supers that later were to be extracted and found that pollen not only never got to the brood nest but had to be cleaned out by bees later. We still use upper entrances (but not top) as with singles and queen excluders we want to avoid field bees crowding the brood nest on incoming flights. Even with that configuration we still get more pollen in our honey supers that just goes to waste. In our 8 frame comb honey supers we use no upper entrance to avoid getting pollen in the comb honey.

Having to manipulate the innner covers in our summer work would be impossible and we can't transport hives with telecsoping lids but I like them for winter use and if I were running under 25 hives would likely use them year round.


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## JonnyBeeGood (Aug 2, 2012)

I'm in Connecticut and am a newbie. First winter, only 1 hive but plan on expanding this spring. My setup right now is 2 deeps with an inner cover, 1 1/2" spacer on top of that with 1" foam insulation in the top section and then a telescoping cover. I put pennies under the front corners of the inner cover for added circulation. 
I'm wondering though why the girls are partying up on top of the inner cover every time i look?? Checked them again last night, cold and dark, with 18* weather and still partying up there!!!
I know it's warm up there but shouldn't they be clustered down lower?? They were loaded with honey in the fall. Is it possible they are running out already??
I'm also curious if I should not have created the little attic space with the spacer?!
Any thoughts out there??


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