# Split now both queenless?



## Owens913 (9 mo ago)

OK so I got a nuc March 19..I noticed swarm cells about 7 of them April 17th, even though I had already added another deep box(so they had space).. some cells were empty some with larva, 1 or 2 closed. so I split the hive taking the old queen, 2 frames of brood, and 1 frame of nectar and put it in a 5 frame nuc..yesterday I went to put them into a 10frame hive and there was no queen no eggs, no larva, a little brood very spotty...but they were pretty calm to be queenless...and there were still alot of bees for them to have swarmed...plus at first majority of them were nurse (why would she swarm with nurse bees) because I didn't see them forging or guarding the entrance for a while..anyhow I went into the hive again today to put wax on my empty frames cause I noticed in both hives the frames that I didn't coat with wax were not being drawn out.. I decide to take 2 closed queen cells from the other hive and put it into the queenless hive..also while in the old hive i saw what could be a Virgin queen she was a lil orange no black strip..slightly bigger than the others. Anyhow just wondering if I read all the signs right and if I did this correctly. Also when should I inspect both hives next to keep an eye on the queen progress on both. I don't wanna keep opening the boxes so often but I also don't want them going queenless for too long with nothing being done


----------



## Johnnymms (Feb 7, 2020)

It sounds like you did ok to me. I usually leave them buttoned up for about 4 weeks until I start checking to see if the queen hatched, mated, and started laying.


----------



## Owens913 (9 mo ago)

Johnnymms said:


> It sounds like you did ok to me. I usually leave them buttoned up for about 4 weeks until I start checking to see if the queen hatched, mated, and started laying.


It's been two weeks since i.saw capped queen cells..so wait another 2 weeks right?


----------



## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

Walk away split, I wait a few days and check to make sure queen cells are being made. Once I'm sure they are being made, then I stay out until 28 days after the split was made. A capped queen cell is 8-9 days from the laying of the egg, she'll be emerging in 7-8 days, and that's if the cell was just capped. What if it had already been capped for longer than a day when you saw them? So... since you saw a capped queen cell 2 weeks ago, another 1 week of waiting should be good, she should or will probably be laying by then.
Day 0 egg is laid
Day 8 cell is capped
Day 15-16 virgin emerges
after that can be variance in timing for hardening, mating, and starting to lay.
I find laying day 28 or earlier most of the time.

Activities at the front entrance can give somewhat of a clue. As the brood ages when a queen goes missing, the foraging starts reducing (it does not stop, it just reduces some) as the brood needing feeding gets older and capped, and soon there's no brood to feed. Just before the new queen is laying again, I see bees at entrance just hanging around like juvenile delinquents with nothing much to do. That's nurse bees with no brood to feed. Once the queen starts laying eggs and they begin morphing into larva, all of a sudden all the bees at the entrance are busy coming and going, no more just hanging around because now there's brood to feed.
Anyway, watching the front entrance can give you a clue as to what's going on inside the box. From your posting of the timing of what you have seen, I would say another week they can be checked.


----------



## Owens913 (9 mo ago)

Both my hives are queenless now..gull of nectar and honey no eggs larva brood at all. One has a couple small queen cups 1 with royal jelly couldn't tell if it was a larva in it for sure but I assume so..the other hice doesn't seem to be attempting to make queen cells which is strange. I would expect if both were queenless for them tohave alot of fully formed queen cells..does this mean I need to buy 2 queens?


----------



## NUBE (May 24, 2009)

What is the bee population like in each hive, how many frames are populated? They shouldn’t have charged queen cells at larva stage unless there is a queen in that hive. Can you post pics of the frames? If you split them on April 17th with queen cells in one half of the split, some already capped, you should not have any capped queen cells still around from that event. They should have either hatched or been torn down by now. Having capped Queen cells in one of those splits would mean you had a laying queen in that hive at least 16 days ago and possibly as recently as 8 days ago. The wisdom of ordering queens would depend on how certain you are that the hive(s) are queenless (they will reject that $45+ Queen if they already have one) and how many bees are in the hive(s) to be requeened (if you don’t have at least two frames packed with bees, preferably more, then I wouldn’t order a queen for that). Combination may be necessary if population is low and aging in both hives, but, from what you are describing, I’d say there has to be a Queen in one of those two.


----------



## Owens913 (9 mo ago)

Usually I take pictures but today I did videos..yes I have more than two frames in each hive full of bees..but there is not a single egg..larva..or capped brood in either hive..which means it's queenless or the queen is on a mating flight..they were very quiet and not aggressive which is odd for a queenless hive though. The first hive has 2 brood boxes with bees on most frames the second hive the split only has one brood box and at least 2 frames full of bees.


----------



## NUBE (May 24, 2009)

It takes somewhere between 24-30 days for a Queen to go from egg to laying, so it is not unusual to have no brood, at any stage, just before a Queen starts laying. However, if there were capped Queen cells in the spilt, there was either a Queen laying in that hive at most 16 days ago, or that cell is not viable and wasn’t torn down by the worker bees (I’ve never seen them leave a non-viable cell up, but maybe someone with more queen rearing experience has). To have a Queen cell with a larva in it, there must have been a Queen in that hive within the last few days and she is likely still there (I’ve never seen bees pack royal jelly into a non-viable queen cell, but, once again, maybe someone with more queen rearing experience has). I still think there is a queen in at least one of those hives, if not both, though I don’t know how there would be Queen cells in each, but zero brood. Post the videos. More info would be very helpful.


----------



## Owens913 (9 mo ago)

it says upload file does not have allowed extension


----------



## Owens913 (9 mo ago)

I'm not great at editing videos or uploading but here is my YouTube channel i put the videos there https://youtube.com/channel/UCMA8tlkLUbmDvlp6BS6b_Zw


----------



## NUBE (May 24, 2009)

Do you have 3 colonies, or 2? If 3, and one is definitely queenright, steal a frame of eggs from the Queen right colony. Make sure the queen isn’t on it, shake off the bees, and place it in the strongest colony you suspect of being queenless. If they build Queen cells on that within a few days, they are definitely queenless. From the videos, it looks like comb is being drawn, but the most helpful info for diagnosing what’s going on with your colonies will most likely be on those older looking frames.


----------



## Owens913 (9 mo ago)

No I have 2 colonies not 3..and on the old frames where lots of nectar some pollen and a lip bit of capped honey in the corners.most frames looke pretty much the same..some just had more capped honey and some had more bees..but no real queen cells, no eggs, no larva, no brood..my guess is she is out on a mating flight...or my bees are hopeless cause they are not rearing another queen on their own


----------

