# middle or end?



## crosscomb (Feb 18, 2015)

When installing my package this spring do I start them in the center of the hive or towards one end? I already drilled entrance holes in the center but I could plug them if necessary.


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## bugman2 (Apr 9, 2014)

Just dump the bees in and put the lid on and wait three days to open and check on them. Make sure you feed them good and they will do the rest.


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## gww (Feb 14, 2015)

I have no bees, I have only read about others. If you have two follower boards and intend to confine the bees in a small space to start, you might have to adjust all the bars to one end at some point to get them filled out but I only say that cause it seems like common sense. I doubt starting will be affected. The only reason I answered this post being a dummy myself (doesn't include you) is because on the bush bees site, it is mentioned that come winter you want the whole cluster of bees started out on one end cause bees are not going to turn around if it is cold and go to the other end if they run out of stores. There will be lots of time from starting till you have to worry about that. I did just put mine on the top at one end.

I hope throwing in something that you wasn't asking doesn't cause confusion.

Good luck
gww


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## WilliamsHoneyBees (Feb 17, 2010)

Just dump them in. Like already mentioned, keep them fed well with thin syrup. Many beekeepers don't even shake them in. They just take the lid off the package, pull the can, pull the queen, shove her in between the frames and put the entire package in an empty deep super with hole down. The bees will walk out and surround the queen. Pull the package out in a few days. One tip on feeding and installing a package. If you are using a pail feeder or a jar over the inner cover, don't put the queen in her cage directly beneath. If by chance the syrup leaks you don't want it pouring on the queen. Don't worry about being to rough with the bees, shake them in! Like shaking shell corn. Good luck this year with your bees!


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

pine_ridge_farms said:


> Just dump them in. Like already mentioned, keep them fed well with thin syrup. Many beekeepers don't even shake them in. They just take the lid off the package, pull the can, pull the queen, shove her in between the frames and put the entire package in an empty deep super with hole down. The bees will walk out and surround the queen. Pull the package out in a few days. One tip on feeding and installing a package. If you are using a pail feeder or a jar over the inner cover, don't put the queen in her cage directly beneath. If by chance the syrup leaks you don't want it pouring on the queen. Don't worry about being to rough with the bees, shake them in! Like shaking shell corn. Good luck this year with your bees!



you have the strangest top bar hive I've ever heard about


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## WilliamsHoneyBees (Feb 17, 2010)

Harley Craig said:


> you have the strangest top bar hive I've ever heard about


Forget everything I said. I didn't see I was posting in the top bar forum.  :lookout: When I ran two top bar hives I shook swarms into the end and used a follower board.


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## Foxhound (Feb 19, 2015)

In top bars, bees tend to build their brood nest near the entrance. Keep that in mind when you start placing your entrance. 

During winter, you don't want them to have to go both directions to get their food. They may go one direction, and starve before they go the other direction. You typically want your queen/brood on one end and all your honey on the other. It's easier to manage and better for the bees survival in the winter.


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## djjmc (Feb 6, 2015)

Foxhound said:


> In top bars, bees tend to build their brood nest near the entrance. Keep that in mind when you start placing your entrance.
> 
> During winter, you don't want them to have to go both directions to get their food. They may go one direction, and starve before they go the other direction. You typically want your queen/brood on one end and all your honey on the other. It's easier to manage and better for the bees survival in the winter.


Agreed! Go one end. That is what I have - for all the mentioned reasons.


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## Jon Wolff (Apr 28, 2013)

Foxhound said it. I've tried both center and end entrances. I prefer end entrances for the reasons already stated. Give them about 8 bars and use a follower board. Don't give them the whole hive. Spring can still get cold and they don't need all the extra space yet. Dump them in and close it up.


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## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

pine_ridge_farms said:


> Forget everything I said. I didn't see I was posting in the top bar forum.  :lookout: When I ran two top bar hives I shook swarms into the end and used a follower board.


Don't sweat it, When you go to posts from the recent thread section of the forum, there is no way of knowing which forum you are going to. You can read the progression in little tiny letters at the very top right of the thread page.


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## JakeDatc (Apr 19, 2010)

end entrance.. didn't bother with follower board. no problem. 3 holes spaced out vertically can close off 1-2 with grass to start out.


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

Not sure what part of NY you are in, but if you get your package while it's still a bit cold, you should start them in the center so the ends can act as a bit of a buffer. Make sure you use the divider boards to make a smaller "bee bowl" so the package doesn't have access to the entire length of the hive to start with or you can end up with a mess of wonky comb. If you do start the brood nest in the middle, in the fall, you will need to shift it down to one end so that they only have to travel one way for their food source.

If you are getting your package in a month when it is fairly warm, I'd start them on an end.


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## Eric Crosby (Jan 4, 2015)

Use an end entrance with wax foundation 2 inches down and heat welded in place for straight interchangeable combs and I find the follower board very useful


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## JakeDatc (Apr 19, 2010)

ruthiesbees said:


> Not sure what part of NY you are in, but if you get your package while it's still a bit cold, you should start them in the center so the ends can act as a bit of a buffer. Make sure you use the divider boards to make a smaller "bee bowl" so the package doesn't have access to the entire length of the hive to start with or you can end up with a mess of wonky comb. If you do start the brood nest in the middle, in the fall, you will need to shift it down to one end so that they only have to travel one way for their food source.
> 
> If you are getting your package in a month when it is fairly warm, I'd start them on an end.


Did not experience any of that with either of the hives we started. One was from a package and one was a swarm.. both hived in open 4' hives. no followers. Wonky comb is made from things being unlevel or the bees just decide they want to go that way. Having 8 bars of space vs 25 shouldn't matter. They will build from right in front of the entrance regardless of where it is. Making your starter strips.. popsicle sticks, foundation strip, etc all the way to the ends of the bars also helps keep them from curving at the ends. 

not sure how having them in the middle makes anything a buffer.. the entrance is where there is air entry end or middle. End entrances let you manage them from one end instead of having them go both ways and have to fix it later. IMO way simpler and predictable.


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## Teabag (Feb 10, 2011)

Whilst the hive is still empty, I would make some more entrances at both ends. Plug them with corks or something similar. This will give you options later when deciding upon which entrance suits both you and the bees. Having said all of that, I started with central entrances and two followers but very soon changed over to an end entrance with just one follower. Kept that arrangement for the past 5 years and never had a problem. I agree with everything that Foxhound has said. I should add that my experience is confined only to swarms, not packages.


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## Apismellifera (Oct 12, 2014)

I like Bush on this one - no drilling, just leave a gap before the first bar. You can also split the hive in two with the follower in the middle using this technique. My bees seem to love it. I install a little landing strip in front, even with the hive end. It's hilarious how many bees take a tumble coming in, makes me wonder what happens if there's no front porch to skid on. LOL


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## Eric Crosby (Jan 4, 2015)

They land on the face of the hive and climb in through the hole just as they would on a tree with a cavity.


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## Apismellifera (Oct 12, 2014)

Eric Crosby said:


> They land on the face of the hive and climb in through the hole just as they would on a tree with a cavity.


Ah... Maybe they go atumble trying to land horizontally rather than vertically? Maybe better to have a sloped landing pad rather than 90 degrees to the front of the hive?

'Cuz it really is funny how often they do somersaults. Or maybe I just have drunk bees.


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## foxC (Feb 4, 2015)

Apismellifera said:


> >snop<
> 'Cuz it really is funny how often they do somersaults. Or maybe I just have drunk bees.


Or high on pesticide.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Mine just fly in the front door and land in the hive...

Here's my entrance:
http://www.bushfarms.com/images/TBHEntrance1.JPG
http://www.bushfarms.com/images/TBHEntranceDiagramChrisGraham.jpg


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## Apismellifera (Oct 12, 2014)

So, you're saying that your bees are more skilled on approach than mine? LOL

Could be. I suppose it's possible that different strains might have slightly different development of skills, kinda like some propolize heavily and some don't.

It looks like your gap may be roomier, I've only been leaving about .25". I've been meaning to rework the peaked roof, set the end gable pieces in a bit more from each end, so when it's on the first coupla bars on either end are exposed. The way it is now they pretty much match up with the first bar and I can't set it up for two hives.

I hope my bees aren't drunk on pesticide. I'm nowhere near any agriculture and I live in a ghetto, not to many of my neighbors are out dusting their roses. *snort*

And it's really not that many, but if I stand there for a few minutes and observe I'll usually see one skidroll.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>So, you're saying that your bees are more skilled on approach than mine? LOL

Mine are pretty small, and that may help.


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