# walter t. kelley box quality



## beeme13 (Feb 21, 2011)

hey again guys and gals,

this is a follow-up post to my box rocking problem. now, i want to see what you guys think of the joint quality. it definitely doesn't look like the pictures advertised in the catalog.

here is the background: 
i purchased new 8-frame medium hive bodies from walter t. kelley in november (11/10) when they had free shipping. i kept the woodenware stored in the shipping boxes in my house - at a constant, controlled temperature....however i was unable to assemble the boxes until this past weekend (2/20/11)....life happens you know. 

when assembling, i used a carpenter's square to make my boxes were perfectly square. the boxes only go together one way...it seemed pretty fool-proof to me. 

is this type of quality normal with all woodenware? could this be due to some sort of warping (my fault for not assembling as soon i received it)? or is walter t. kelley's woodenware not of good quality/craftmanship? i think this is pretty unacceptable for new boxes....but what do i know...i'm just starting out...what do you guys/gals think?

here are some images:
https://picasaweb.google.com/109122271083180280391/Feb232011?authkey=Gv1sRgCKWQ3uXg4rbb6wE&feat=directlink

thanks,
beeme13


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## fish_stix (May 17, 2009)

Completely normal! You're not building pianos. You'll have small gaps and small open joints no matter whose equipment you use. Also, some of them will require a little chisel work to open up a dovetail or 2 occasionally. If you leave them unassembled for any length of time humidity will have an affect on them also, swelling or contracting the wood. The bees don't care!


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## standman (Mar 14, 2008)

Beeme, Sorry to hear of your problem. I have bought several things from Kelley's, and have always found them to be top quality. But I have never bought any 8 frame woodenware, so that could be part of the difference.

I will say that the spaces in the box joints are not a big deal. I have started making most of my own hive bodies, and my humanity often results in finger joints that looks a lot like those in your pictures. Between glue and two coats of paint, those cracks fill right up. Now if I were staining them, it would be different story.

If there is a problem, give Kelley's a call. They have always made things right for me.
Stan


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## Pyrotechnician (Feb 21, 2011)

I will be watching this thread as well as I was talking to Kelly's today about ordering the same items. Those gaps to me look pretty reasonable but I am a complete newbie. I did see someone post that you can place a concrete block on top of the hive and let the weather and pressure straighten it out and fix those cracks.


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## timgoodin (Mar 10, 2007)

I've ordered all my supplies (25 hives) with the exception of a couple of nuc boxes from Kelley's and not had any problems over the last four years. I'll admit I don't like the looks of the corner joints in the picture but I've never had that so far to date. I did have one box that rocked (was not level) but I attributed it to leaving it over the winter laying in the garage before assembly and it slightly warped but not enough to cause any problems. The bees propalis it up in a couple days on my warped homemade bottom boards.
Last year I ordered 15 commercial grade deeps from them and the only difference I see in them besides price is they have some solid knots in them...the bees could care less and at a discount I'll be buying their commercial grade from now on as long as the quality is as good as the 15 I got last year. Kelley's has provided me great customer service and assistance over the short time I've purchased from them. They are 3 hours up the road from me but convenient when I'm going in that direction anyway and I stock up when passing to save on shipping. I have not ordered their 8 frame stuff, all mine is 10.

Tim Goodin


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## dmpower (Nov 7, 2010)

I purchased the same 8 frame items at the same time and put them together not long after they arrived. They are sitting in my living room, one with 2 boxes and one with 3. The metal on the telescoping covers make for great end tables. Soon I will have to refurnish my living room.

I had a few pieces that were overly tight and some that seemed lose I just moved around the pieces till it all went together. I used enough glue so that when I nailed my pieces together, whatever gaps there might have been were filled with the glue. I then wiped the remainder of the glue and actually painted the corners with the glue to cover the end of the open wood grain.
I didn't have any problems with the boxes not fitting evenly on top of another. I suspect the weight of the hive will make that a moot point.

I am extremely happy with my living room furniture and am hoping they will look as great outside as they do inside.

Happy beekeeping!!


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## Mtn. Bee (Nov 10, 2009)

2 coats of paint and 3 coats of propolis and 3 years of use and you won't even be able to pick that box out of a pile of em!

I have a newbie Beek friend that is a professional woodworker/cabinet maker and has a shop that makes me green with envy. His wife also is a newbie and decided that Hubby needed to make her some superior Western Red Cedar bee boxes along with those beautiful full copper pitched roofs/tops like you see in the catalog.
They decided against the copper roofs eventually as they were somewhere around $58.00 + shipping each. 
So now he is cutting out all these baby sized cedar shakes. 
He even filled all the dovetailed corners (yes dovetail, not boxjoints) with special wood filler and sanded them and also put on the new plastic corner caps to protect your box corners from getting damaged from your hive tool.
He sanded and even inlaid pieces of wood where the boards had some dents/fubars!
I admit these are the most beautiful boxes I have ever seen and he did an awesome job! :thumbsup:
He then told me what happened last season with a hive top syrup feeder that he ordered, the wooden ones with the wooden float like rafts to keep your bees from drowning.
Turns out the feeder wasn't good enough as is, so he decided to give several coats of professional clear coat finish.
Later after he placed it on his bees and filled it with syrup he noticed dead drowned bees and not just a few, but thousands of bees, enough that it hurt a new colony.
When I asked what he thought had killed so many bees he stated sheepishly that the bees could not climb back out of the feeder because the finish he put on was way too slippery for the bees to get traction on. (henced he killed his own bees)  :doh:
The moral of this long winded story is don't get too tied up in perfection of equipment and concentrate on raising strong healthy colonies instead!


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## Pyrotechnician (Feb 21, 2011)

http://www.kelleybees.com/CMS/CMSPage.aspx?redirect=n-3-e2eb4d85-d6ba-4e79-a075-c9ceeadfc25d

Was this the hive that you purchased?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I've been buying equipment from Walter T. Kelley for 35 years and have always been happy with it. Wood will warp and if you don't assemble it right away it's more likely to. As mentioned, you're not building pianos. Rocking hives are usually fixed by stacking a few concrete block on top until the bees glue them together. They usually stay fine after that.


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## beeme13 (Feb 21, 2011)

these are good points. maybe i'm obsessing since the woodenware is sitting in front of me and the bees haven't arrived yet. 

however, i'm also suffering from some buyer's remorse. i went all in with one company totally blind and based completely off reputation and want to make sure i made the right decision.

this was a pretty expensive up-front investment for me and my expectations were/still are high. 

i just want to make sure that this isn't just a walter t. kelley woodenware issue, if it is...then i'll be kicking myself for not going with another company.

everyone has been really helpful so far! thank you.


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## beeme13 (Feb 21, 2011)

Pyrotechnician said:


> http://www.kelleybees.com/CMS/CMSPage.aspx?redirect=n-3-e2eb4d85-d6ba-4e79-a075-c9ceeadfc25d
> 
> Was this the hive that you purchased?



no, i purchased everything separately and did not buy a kit.


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## Pyrotechnician (Feb 21, 2011)

But is that the hive in that picture?


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## beeme13 (Feb 21, 2011)

sort of: it's exclusively all 8-frame medium boxes


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## jrbbees (Apr 4, 2010)

.....


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## wildbeekeeper (Jul 3, 2010)

Ive had joijts on hives from other compaies be tight and loose. some slide right in some require a good tap from a hammer. Wouldnt worry about it to much... as other stated, threre are variations in woodenware from various companies and they swell and shrink accordingly even in your home. The bees will fix what they dont like as long as it doesnt affect the true function of that box or frame etc. Sit back and rtelax and think about your bees coming in a month!


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## willrich68 (Jan 8, 2010)

Nothing but good things to say about Walt Kelley. I use a lot of there foundation less frames and have had no problems and the bees jump right on making comb. You cant go wrong with Walt Kelley 
William


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## mhc (Sep 30, 2010)

I have just finished assembling 20 10 frame deeps that I bought during the November Free Shipping. I did not have any problems with them. 
--Mike


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## scdw43 (Aug 14, 2008)

I've never had a problem with anything I got from Kelley.


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## slickbrightspear (Jan 9, 2009)

you will not have any problems from those small crack and open places in the joints. paint them good and no worries. I do not think you will get better equipment anywhere else but you are welcome to try.


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## StevenG (Mar 27, 2009)

scdw43 said:


> I've never had a problem with anything I got from Kelley.


A couple of years ago apparently Kelley had some "quality control" issues thanks to an employee or two that may no longer be there.... I bought some assembled inner covers, and one season later several of them were coming apart. I called Kelley and told them about the problem. I didn't want anything, made repairs myself. Just wanted them aware of it, and the lady thanked me for the info. Haven't bought any inner covers since, so don't know what's happened. But Kelley produces good merchandise, and is usually quite responsive. They have an old and good reputation to maintain.
Regards,
Steven


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## samw446 (Feb 2, 2011)

I have done business with Kelleys, for about 5 years now. I had the same issue with the inner covers, as did StevenG. When I told the sales rep about it, they told me they appreciated my input, and that they had changed the design. Had one other issue with the wooden frames. They seem to be very interested in my input. With a company that has some employees that have been there 30 to 40 year, they have to be doing something right.


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## WWW (Feb 6, 2011)

I have just finished assembling 20 of their deep frames that have been laying in storage for 15 years, there was no problems, they went together like they were made yesterday:thumbsup:


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## Tappert (Nov 25, 2008)

beeme13 said:


> when assembling, i used a carpenter's square to make my boxes were perfectly square. the boxes only go together one way...it seemed pretty fool-proof to me.


Just a comment, beeme13. We get most of our equipment from Dadant. I have found that if I INSIST on squaring the boxes, making them perfectly square, they sometimes rock a little. Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

I think it's more important that they sit FLAT.

I assemble my boxes on a table saw top, which is a machined surface that's pretty flat. I do use a small 6" x 9" square, but I will cheat it a little, if necessary, to get the box to sit FLAT on the surface.

In other words, I compromise between the two. The ever-propolising bees will do the rest.

Just my 2-cents.

David


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

I build my own and had a couple of fingers do what your pictures show (after trying to do too many sides at one time:doh, I used some Elmer’s exterior wood putty. It sanded real easy (also making all the fingers even) the end result was that even the sloppy ones you could not see the fingers from the joints after a prime and paint. I know you should not expect to “finish” the boxes to this level but even with a stain I think it would look fine.


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## feltze (May 15, 2010)

I do my own boxes, having a sawmill and shop to work in. Box joints are can be a bear to work with. Just a couple thousands of an inch adjustment to the jig can make life easy or hard come assembly time. 

A perfectly made joint in pine can slip together the day it's made and a week later fight you because of humidity change and a bit of swelling in the wood. I like them to slip together, not fight me as you need space for the glue to work properly.

Pine is notorious for cupping as it dries especially in wider boards. But this is easily clamped out, the rocking you speak of leads me to believe someones trim saw may be out of alignment a degree or fraction there of. A couple taps with a mallet should allow the box to rest square then leave it dry after assembly. Let the joint hang a little "loose" but not open. It is common for people to place glue on their joinery only to clamp the glue right back out of the joint with too much pressure. 

I am suprised so many people are buying multiple boxes. Especially the supers. A simple lap joint or easily routered drawer joint is sufficient for average handling. Use a water resistant glue or as Some of our local keepers use Liquid Nails (which adheres great and fills great). FYI all my deeps are box joints, my current mediums are box joints, the next batch of mediums will be a routered joint, much faster to cut and assemble. Much similar to a drawer locking joint.


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## Pyrotechnician (Feb 21, 2011)

I am wondering if anyone knows how quickly Kelleys ships as I placed an order last week and was told it would ship early this week and it still has not been shipped? Not impatient, just wondering.


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