# Extractors: Want vs. Need



## Zebra (Aug 15, 2012)

My conundrum is that I'm a first-year two-hive beek this year and I'm going to *nee*d an extractor. I've been stung by the hobby and I'm enjoying it immensely. Living out in the country on 40 acres of my own land, I'm making plans for a total of 10 hives next season. I really don't see myself going beyond that size. It's a hobby, not a business for me (is that a bad thing?) and it's so relaxing to have these little bugs to tend and enjoy. 

So here's my question: Given my plans, what should I buy for an extractor? 

I don't *want* a manual unit because it will become a chore. 
I don't *want* to buy a small unit only to replace it with a larger unit next year. 
I don't *want* anything but a radial extractor. (for medium frames)

I've been looking at several powered units from King Honey (too small), Dadant and Maxant (my preference) but now I *need* real advice from those of you that have experience. Would a Maxant 3100P be sufficient for a 10 hive hobbyist? 

Thanks!


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## westernbeekeeper (May 2, 2012)

I think the 3100p would be fine for you. I really like Maxant's 1400p power extractor. It holds 20 medium frames, and does the job well. However, there is a big price difference between the 1400p ($1,350.00) and the 3100p ($745.00).


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## scrapiron (Aug 18, 2011)

You sound a lot like me, as far as planning next year. i am going to Brushy Mountain in the morning to purchase my extractor.
http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/9-Frame-Hand-Radial-Extractor-w_-Honey-Tank/productinfo/806/
The place where I take my honey to be extracted uses this unit. I love it. As long as it is a warm day, the honey is removed effortlessly. No way I am spending 500 more bucks on a powered unit. The 30 seconds of hand cranking per extraction just isnt enough to justify 500 dollars. Hope this helps. Good Luck.


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## Ted adams (Mar 20, 2012)

scrapiron said:


> You sound a lot like me, as far as planning next year. i am going to Brushy Mountain in the morning to purchase my extractor.
> http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/9-Frame-Hand-Radial-Extractor-w_-Honey-Tank/productinfo/806/
> The place where I take my honey to be extracted uses this unit. I love it. As long as it is a warm day, the honey is removed effortlessly. No way I am spending 500 more bucks on a powered unit. The 30 seconds of hand cranking per extraction just isnt enough to justify 500 dollars. Hope this helps. Good Luck.


I do not think cranking is that big a deal either,I like the extractor recommended. If you are just working as a hobby, 10 hives , removing once or twice a year I would rather have a extractor with the strainer and holding tank included in the unit. It works great for me, I would recommend one that holds med supers or larger.


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## Zebra (Aug 15, 2012)

Hmmm, Manual vs Powered huh? Well, I'm thinking that might be a good alternative to a higher-priced powered unit. 9 frame vs 6 frame is probably overkill but makes for 33% less cranking when the time comes to harvest. Thanks also for suggesting Brushy Mountain too, I've looked at lots of different sites in my search but that one eluded me. Their YouTube videos were quite helpful to see, it's always nice to have a closer look even if it's just video. 

I still haven't ruled out the Maxant 3100P or 3100M but you guys have given me some good points to think about. Both of these manufacturers offer a conversion to powered operation so that helps set aside a few of my concerns. Anything else to consider before the purchase?


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## pom51 (Jul 28, 2008)

I think about any extractor is ok as long as it is a radial but i would go with a power unit as you get older and stiffer with more joint pains you will like a power unit much better , with a power unit you can extract one load and uncap the next load, just my thought


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## My-smokepole (Apr 14, 2008)

I have a friend that bought a hand crank one his first year. We are now using Maxant power 20 frame unit. It get real old doing the crank plus I don't think you get them as spon out as well with a crank
David


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## indypartridge (Nov 18, 2004)

Zebra said:


> Anything else to consider before the purchase?


For some people, _where_ it's made is important. Maxant is American-made. The Brushy Mountain SAF units are imported from Italy.

For me, the gauge of the stainless steel is important for durability and stability. The Maxant 3100 is 20 gauge, while the SAF units are listed as 0.5mm, which translates to about 25 or 26 gauge - that's getting very thin (higher the gauge, the thinner the metal).


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

Have you considered yield, production cycle, and time for the job. The average yield per hive in MN or WI is about 80 pounds. 80x8=640 divided by about 30 pounds per medium super is 21 supers. Yesterday I processed 12 supers in about 6 hours. 
OK, I may be slow Here is my process. I use a cappings scratcher, because it reduces the amount of cappings I have to deal with. The first load goes into the extractor, the second load rests on the uncapping rack while the first load is spinning; I have read this is the issue with a manual extractor, your cycle is extended by the time it takes to spin out subsequent loads because you can't uncap and spin at the same time unless you are built like an octopus.
So if you have 21 supers to deal with over the season you are talking, at my pedestrian production rates, of about 10-12 hours work. I don't like to process more than 12 at a time because then it becomes more of a chore than a profitable hobby. I think it would get very old very quickly with a manual extractor.
Someone will say "use an uncapping plane, or a hot knife it goes quicker" This may be true, especially in subsequent years when all your frames are fully drawn out evenly and if you run 9 frames per super. At the beginning those devices are less useful because the comb is not drawn completely out.
Also be warned, it is not easy to keep to a given number of hives. I started the season planning to run a dozen production colonies, but because of abnormal good luck overwintering I had bees I had to put to work. Buy or make a lot more boxes than you think you need. I thought I had a surplus, but this season every super I own was in use, and I had to buy more frames from Mann Lake twice. A guy I'm unofficially mentoring had to keep running off to the local bee supplier and buying boxes at the last minute and putting them on the hives with wet paint.


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## indypartridge (Nov 18, 2004)

Adrian Quiney WI said:


> I use a cappings scratcher, because it reduces the amount of cappings I have to deal with. ... this is the issue with a manual extractor, your cycle is extended by the time it takes to spin out subsequent loads because you can't uncap and spin at the same time


So you invite a couple friends, take turns uncapping and cranking. Pay your friends with a jar of honey. Makes for a very pleasant day.


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

I do like the "many hands make light work" approach as well.
You'd be surprised how interested people get when you plan to extract.


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

Indy, my friends won't work so cheap.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

I used the brushy 9-frame radial hand crank for many years. A good machine and served its purpose. Now I'm using a 12-frame dadant motorized unit. Boy what a difference. I usually do everything myself, so uncapping while the unit is spinning was a huge improvement in my throughput.


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## mmmooretx (Jun 4, 2012)

Great thread with excellent inputs! I have looked at all of the listed units, but will not need one until the Spring (I think). My thoughts are this I do like the Maxant 3100 as my leading preference at this point (USA & thicker SS). Power vs. manual $$ at the time of purchase as you can always get the upgrade kit later when you "need" it or $$ is better. The big design item I think the Maxant has over the others is the conical bottom which should let more honey drain out faster. They all work, but due to the design items the Maxant 3100 has my eye currently.
Warning the above is the opinion of a less than 1 year, 1 hive (just split so 2 more pending) newbeek.


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## tcsbees (Apr 4, 2012)

mmmooretx said:


> Great thread with excellent inputs! I have looked at all of the listed units, but will not need one until the Spring (I think). My thoughts are this I do like the Maxant 3100 as my leading preference at this point (USA & thicker SS). Power vs. manual $$ at the time of purchase as you can always get the upgrade kit later when you "need" it or $$ is better. The big design item I think the Maxant has over the others is the conical bottom which should let more honey drain out faster. They all work, but due to the design items the Maxant 3100 has my eye currently.
> Warning the above is the opinion of a less than 1 year, 1 hive (just split so 2 more pending) newbeek.


maxant 1400 p worked great last weekend. did a great job


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

My mentor uses the SAF 9-frame powered. He bought it used from his best friend when his friend upgraded to a Dadant 6/12. My mentor has had 50+ hives in the past (down to around 35 now) and his friend has had about the same. The SAF is several years old now and several tons of honey have been through it (mentor made 2000+ pounds of honey just last year and has probably extracted 1500# so far this year). It still looks new and has not given a moments worth of trouble. Both men are seniors and both take care of their equipment. The metal may be thinner than the Maxant but I don't believe either of these guys planned on using it to carry firewood. The SAF's metal seems more than adequate at keeping the slung honey from bursting through the sides.  Sure, if you bang it up against something (hard) then it will dent easier than a thicker metal (the thicker metal will dent, too), but that's where "care" comes in. My mentor has had blow-outs in the SAF that took out over half the frames...the extractor was none the worse off from that. It is a smooth machine that balances well, runs well, and does what it is supposed to do. Who knows...maybe I'm talking myself into one. 

Ed


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## Fuzzy (Aug 4, 2005)

If someone wants to stack a couple tons on top of their extractor during the off season then perhaps the thickness of the sidewall will become important. The sidewall could be made of plastic sheet as long as there is some firm support ring at the top and bottom. As for the SAF unit, the bottom is in fact conical on the machine that I have.


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## Fuzzy (Aug 4, 2005)

Addressing the "need".... You must first get some idea of how many supers you think that you will do per year. You can then define your personal need. As for me, I figure 5-6 supers per hive. And then I figure 2 supers per hour to process -- working alone. That defines my need.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

mmmooretx said:


> The big design item I think the Maxant has over the others is the conical bottom which should let more honey drain out faster.


I can't say for sure, but I believe that the Maxant is an excellent product simply based upon the feedback here at beesource. However, the design feature of a "conical bottom" is certainly not unique to Maxant. Every modern extractor that I've seen uses a conical bottom, certainly the Bushy 9-frame, and the Dadants I've seen and used all use this design. Although the "conical" bottom is nice, you still must tilt the extractor to get out all of the honey. On level ground, any honey below the spout will not naturally drain. 

I once saw a REALLY old extractor that had a great drain feature. It was a middle bottom drain that permitted all the honey to drain without having to tilt the unit. I suspect that such a design to not cheap and I know of no hobbyist grade extractor with this feature.


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## mmmooretx (Jun 4, 2012)

Thanks for sharing, I learn something new every day. Either I did not make note of that or it was not hilighted in the descriptions.


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

My grandpa had a galvanized four frame extractor from kelley bees, and we borrow an identical one of similar age now. It has a sloping bottom, drains easily, is easy to crank (I helped when I was six or seven, I think, doing the cranking and was told to slow down).

I believe the exact same extractor is available today from Kelley's in stainless steel. Not cheap, but should last through quite a few decades of use with no trouble other than replacing a top bearing.

Grandpa had between a dozen and two dozen hives -- I don't remember the number, since we were not allowed to play in the apiary and Mom doesn't have any pictures that I've found so far. He had those hives from the late 20's until the late 60's, and extracted #3 washtubs of honey with that four frame extractor.

Peter


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## Jamesfarms (Oct 24, 2011)

I too did a lot of research this year before I bought my 18 frame Mann Lake extractor. All the radials I have looked at have conical bottoms. The gauge of metal will depend on the support design for the extractor

The 9 frame Maxant is supported from the bottom. The top is supported by the metal sides, thence benefitting from the thicker gauge metal. The 9 frame is really a 6 frame radial. The 26 gauge on the Mann Lake is plenty sturdy. I cannot push in the sides with my hand. My extractor was delivered free of charge and protected in a crate well built. All metal now with no plastic parts. I will upgrade with a motor later. People keep saying that the Maxant is American Made, but only if you buy the manual. Their motor is Foreign made, si I wish they would change their promotion to be more honest.
I am real exited about my purchase. Michael Bush and the moderator of this forum both use the 18 / 9 Mann Lake.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

indypartridge said:


> <snip>
> 
> For me, the gauge of the stainless steel is important for durability and stability. The Maxant 3100 is 20 gauge, while the SAF units are listed as 0.5mm, which translates to about 25 or 26 gauge - that's getting very thin (higher the gauge, the thinner the metal).


Mmm, I called Brushy Mountain today and was told that the SAF/Italian units were 22 gauge...looking on SAF Natura's website I see the .5mm notation associated with what looks to be the 9-frame units offered here in the states. I converted that to inches and checked a stainless steel gauge chart. A 5mm thickness falls between 25 and 26 gauge at .0197 inches. Thanks for making me look for myself, indy! I wonder how many times I looked at that SAF's page previously and totally missed the thickness note. 

Am I wrong or is 20 gauge (.0375") almost twice as thick as 25-26 (.0197" or 5mm) gauge??? I'm figuring 90% thicker. :scratch:

Ed


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## Aerindel (Apr 14, 2012)

> Michael Bush and the moderator of this forum both use the 18 / 9 Mann Lake


He also didn't have one for 26 years nor does he seem a big fan of them in general. Just saying.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesharvest.htm


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## Ddawg (Feb 17, 2012)

I'm in pretty much the exact same position as you, but I decided to go with the Maxant 3100H. I think it should be fine for around 10 hives. Whenever I get tired of cranking, I'll order the motor kit.


Good Luck


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## Zebra (Aug 15, 2012)

indypartridge said:


> For some people, _where_ it's made is important. Maxant is American-made. The Brushy Mountain SAF units are imported from Italy.
> 
> For me, the gauge of the stainless steel is important for durability and stability. The Maxant 3100 is 20 gauge, while the SAF units are listed as 0.5mm, which translates to about 25 or 26 gauge - that's getting very thin (higher the gauge, the thinner the metal).


You bring up a very good point indypartridge! I like 'American Made' on the things that I own and usually a little extra weight is a good thing when it comes to equipment. Thanks for that information!


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## MAXANT (Sep 13, 2008)

It is american made. The Parvalux motor comes from the U.K.
A lot better than coming from China.
Enjoy your ML!


Jamesfarms said:


> I too did a lot of research this year before I bought my 18 frame Mann Lake extractor. All the radials I have looked at have conical bottoms. The gauge of metal will depend on the support design for the extractor
> 
> The 9 frame Maxant is supported from the bottom. The top is supported by the metal sides, thence benefitting from the thicker gauge metal. The 9 frame is really a 6 frame radial. The 26 gauge on the Mann Lake is plenty sturdy. I cannot push in the sides with my hand. My extractor was delivered free of charge and protected in a crate well built. All metal now with no plastic parts. I will upgrade with a motor later. People keep saying that the Maxant is American Made, but only if you buy the manual. Their motor is Foreign made, si I wish they would change their promotion to be more honest.
> I am real exited about my purchase. Michael Bush and the moderator of this forum both use the 18 / 9 Mann Lake.


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