# Upper/ top entrance design -- Korschgen



## carlinmo (Jun 6, 2010)

Frequently there is discussion about upper/top hive entrances and their benefits on this forum (and now detailed in Michael Bush’s book on page 329). Last summer I converted my nine hives to upper entrances and finally had a decent honey harvest from my older hives. 

I built upper entrances with a landing board that can quickly be placed between the hive bodies and the supers -- I do not use queen excluders. During the process of coming up with a design I looked at several of Joe Clemens designs (boy do I appreciate his CAD expertise!), the Imirie shim, and in the bee supply catalogs for options. My design is different than most that I have seen. It is constructed from 5 pieces of wood per the attached graphic. I make the opening about 20” in length, slightly longer than the standard 19 7/8” hive box, so that it fits easily on the hive box and there is a crack for a rain gutter on the front edge. As long as the two long shims are cut from good wood the frame is very sturdy. 

Contact me if you have questions or need additional information.

Carl Korschgen
[email protected]
573-819-8516


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## Solomon Parker (Dec 21, 2002)

That's almost exactly the 'Parker Shim' I came up with 9 years ago. The main difference is mine has no back support.

http://parkerfarms.biz/equipment.html#Standardized_Equipment

How have you liked it? I started using mine upside down to form an 'awning' rather than a landing board. Works great for snow and gives a good place for bearding. http://parkerfarms.biz/equipment.html#The_Parker_Shim


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## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

Has anyone tried placing a full width entrance above the two deep broods? And say bee space between the frames is maintained by using a deep super shortened. Another way would be to place a 3/8 round piece of plywood on top of frames(queen excluder of sorts) of top brood frames that fits inside of entrance shim?


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## scokat (Apr 19, 2011)

This is the upper entrance I use, it is the same dimension as a super/hive body, except it is short, 1/2 or so. I made new ones that are right around half inch. I have not had any of the hives try to fill in under the lid, but when i open the lid there is always a big cluster of bees sitting there. The hives with the top entrance(5) out produced the bottom entrance hives(5) in honey produced, so all my hive will have top entrances this year. But i am going to try/experiment with several top entrances like shown on M. Bush's site.(shims)


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## Solomon Parker (Dec 21, 2002)

That looks like a thicker version of the Imrie Shim.


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## MrHappy (Feb 10, 2012)

That looks great. I was looking for an easy to build little addon that they could land on and go in. Like others have said, if the hive gets 5-6 boxes tall then they have to crawl through all that and time is honey. 

Thanks


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## carlinmo (Jun 6, 2010)

Folks, 

Thanks for the comments. I put the back support on so that I can reduce the shims to 3/8". It is hard to fasten the intersection of pieces of wood that thin. 

My observation is that given a choice the bees will use an upper entrance more than a bottom entrance. I also noticed a lot less bearding during the heat of the summer. My hives have screened bottom boards with a bottom entrance that is restricted by an entrance reducer to 3/8” x 2”. I built these upper entrance frames with a 3/8” shim in consideration of bee space and also to keep mice out of the hive. The bees do occasionally bridge between the hive bodies and supers but not to the extent that they are hard to separate. 

Also, I don’t think the bees need more than a 3/8” deep opening across the front the hive. The year before I installed these entrances I could not entice the bees to fill out the supers. With upper entrances in place I took 60 quarts of honey off of 4 hives during a drought year – not the best but at least something. 

To prepare the hives for winter I remove the supers, partially close the SBB, install the inner cover on top of the upper entrance frame, and then place an entrance reducer (3/8 x 2” opening to hive) on the landing board of my upper entrance frame. I put an empty hive body on top of the inner cover and feed all winter long in this attic. 

Carl Korschgen


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## davo (Feb 26, 2013)

Today I modified my (brand new) telescoping cover and inner cover to make top entrances for two hives. All western boxes with a screen bottom board, reduceable bottom entrance, no queen excluders. 

Inspired by looking at Michael Bush's site with shimmed top entrances... I wanted to keep telescoping covers to limit rain running down the sides and front. I also wanted an entrance on only one side of the hive, the front.

Basically all I did was cut a rectangular notch out of the front of a telescoping cover- approximately 14'' x 2''. I attached the cut-out to the front of what will be a permanent top super to make a landing pad.

Then I added 5/8'' "shims" to the bottom of my inner covers on three sides, all except the front. The result with the inner and top cover on and aligned is a 5/8'' x 13.75'' top entrance , with an overhanging lip from the telescoping cover, plus a landing pad under it.

Now, I've never done this before and I'm fairly inexperienced. Can anyone see any potential problems with this? Will the bees make a mess between the top of the frames and the inner cover, now raised? I could fill in the middle of the cover with plywood.

I don't have pictures yet but if anyone is interested I can probably post some tomorrow. It looks really nice to me.


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## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

Almost the same as i use, mine is just the same landing pad on both ends. and I ususaly leave both open.... The extra 3/8 slows teh queen from climbing into the super. won't say it stops them, but its real rare for them to cross up


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## davo (Feb 26, 2013)

So it sounds like you made an entrance in the middle of the hive between the supers and brood chamber?

I have one entrance on the very top, one on the very bottom. With all medium bodies it shouldn't matter where the queen wants to go, I can rearrange the frames when I pull the ones full of honey.


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## Beregondo (Jun 21, 2011)

I've been using a shim very similar, but without any cleat or landing board...just the 3 sided shim.

I cut it so that the long side is 3/4" shorter than the box, and put a pair of straight shims into the entrance to serve as a reducer as needed.

The corners are lap-joined...the shims hold up very well, and if painted several can be stores on any peg, nail, or branch in the bee yard when not in use.


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## carlinmo (Jun 6, 2010)

Davo
Yes, I put my entrances in the middle of the hives (between my upper deep brood box and the lower super) during nectar flow. That way the bees have fast access to the entire hive. I keep a very small entrance at the bottom for housekeeping purposes. All hives have screened bottom boards and vent boxes above the inner cover.


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## RiodeLobo (Oct 11, 2010)

Last year I put entrances between the brood boxes, by cutting cedar shake dove to 3/4 inches wide. This made a nice 3/8 entrance across the hive. When I only had top entrances the colonies would never move down into the bottom boxs in the fall. Of course I lost most of my colonies this winter, but I doubt the two are related.


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## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

Heres my migratory cover entrances, really simple and easy to make and so far the bees don't seem to mind them either!!

















Just take a cover, notch out a square with a power saw, place cleat on top to prevent warping (like normal) and there ya have it!


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## davo (Feb 26, 2013)

carlinmo said:


> Davo
> Yes, I put my entrances in the middle of the hives (between my upper deep brood box and the lower super) during nectar flow. That way the bees have fast access to the entire hive. I keep a very small entrance at the bottom for housekeeping purposes. All hives have screened bottom boards and vent boxes above the inner cover.


That sounds like a really attractive setup to me.

The way I was taught to keep bees, they said to always work from behind the hive. Supposedly they are less disrupted and less likely to become aggressive. That's why I wanted two entrances on the front only. Do you find any difference between working a hive with a front and back entrance, opposed to front only?


Edit: @ BeeGhost:
I like your cover (also wish I had time to stain my wood rather than paint). Is one entrance that size wide enough for a bigger colony?


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## dnichols (May 28, 2012)

Carl, what do you use for a top cover?


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## monrovi (Jan 22, 2012)

With an upper entrance like these, do bees build comb on top of the frames up to the migratory cover? I have telescopic covers and have been thinking of trying a few top entrances because of condensation problems. However, I worry that rain entering could be an issue. How about having an entrance shim like this one, then an inner cover, and then a top cover that only had three vertical sides on it with an extra over hang on the front (if that makes any sense)?


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## monrovi (Jan 22, 2012)

Or how about instead of a Imrie Shim or 'Parker Shim', a inner cover with an thicker than normal rim that basically has only 3 sides. Similar to a notch inner cover only with a bigger opening. Then the modified cover to sit on top of that.


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## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

Davo, this is just the top entrance, I run all bottom entrances on hive pallets that are about 6" wide and 3/4" tall, so I can fit the OA vaporizer in the entrance.


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## davo (Feb 26, 2013)

Ok, I got around to taking pictures. I hope this works.


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## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

davo said:


> Ok, I got around to taking pictures. I hope this works.
> 
> View attachment 4628
> View attachment 4629
> View attachment 4630


Those are nice Davo!


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## monrovi (Jan 22, 2012)

Picture is worth a thousand words. That's what I was thinking of. Although I was thinkning of a cover that would extend a couple extra inches in the front for more protection from rain.


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## davo (Feb 26, 2013)

If you wanted to make an awning, you could attach the cut-out to the top lip of the cover instead of onto the top super. The unevenness of the aluminum might require caulking. I would probably drill two small pilot holes through the front of the notched out cover, apply silicone or construction adhesive, then put two wood screws in from the inside of the lid. That's basically what I did with the landing pad using wood glue.

Or, use a longer strip of 1'' board across the whole front of the lid.

When I made them, I wanted to be able to flip the inner cover over if I needed to close up the hive for transportation. I also didn't want to have to buy new equipment. Modifying the parts I had was easy and didn't cost extra.


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## dnichols (May 28, 2012)

Maybe I missed it but are there any issues with bees building burr or bridge comb from the top bars to the cover? If not I am going to try a couple this year. :thumbsup:


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## Solomon Parker (Dec 21, 2002)

Bridge comb will be a function of the characteristics of the bees, of the amount of space available, and of the amount of nectar coming in.

In my case, when I keep the hive large enough (supers added or left to assure bees don't run out of space) no problems. If a hive is not supered at the correct time you will certainly get comb built up in that space. Fortunately since there is a limited space, it's not that big of a deal to clean up. I haven't had it happen in a few years.


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## davo (Feb 26, 2013)

Bridge comb was my biggest question about this whole thing. I was considering filling in part or all of the extra space created by the inner cover and shims with plywood.

This is my first attempt at modifying covers.

edit: S. Parker, I just now started reading your equipment link. It's extremely informative and good food for thought.
(http://parkerfarms.biz/equipment.html#Standardized_Equipment)


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## jgrizle (May 21, 2015)

I like this design you have here. It looks like it could be reversible too so it could act like a reducer right?


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## jgrizle (May 21, 2015)

Solomon Parker said:


> That's almost exactly the 'Parker Shim' I came up with 9 years ago. The main difference is mine has no back support.
> 
> http://parkerfarms.biz/equipment.html#Standardized_Equipment
> 
> How have you liked it? I started using mine upside down to form an 'awning' rather than a landing board. Works great for snow and gives a good place for bearding. http://parkerfarms.biz/equipment.html#The_Parker_Shim


I noticed that your lid looks like strips on 1x4 that has two cleats nailed to it for warp prevention. What about rain/snow? does in not get in the hive with this design?


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## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

I haven't tried it, but would turning the inner cover upside down make a top entrance.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Another view:

http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...ottom-Board-and-Top-Cover&highlight=top+cover


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## Biermann (May 31, 2015)

carlinmo said:


> Frequently there is discussion about upper/top hive entrances and their benefits on this forum (and now detailed in Michael Bush’s book on page 329). Last summer I converted my nine hives to upper entrances and finally had a decent honey harvest from my older hives.
> 
> I built upper entrances with a landing board that can quickly be placed between the hive bodies and the supers -- I do not use queen excluders. During the process of coming up with a design I looked at several of Joe Clemens designs (boy do I appreciate his CAD expertise!), the Imirie shim, and in the bee supply catalogs for options. My design is different than most that I have seen. It is constructed from 5 pieces of wood per the attached graphic. I make the opening about 20” in length, slightly longer than the standard 19 7/8” hive box, so that it fits easily on the hive box and there is a crack for a rain gutter on the front edge. As long as the two long shims are cut from good wood the frame is very sturdy.
> 
> ...


Hello Carl,

Thanks for your detailed plan on the top entrance frame. I build one yesterday and installed it today. 

















How soon did you see the bees use the top entrance after installation?

Did you reduce the bottom entrance right away? 

I would appreciate any comments.

One note for future 'builders' make sure you don't make the distance between front entrance board and back board to tight or it may not fit all supers because of this lack of tolerance and the rain can't run off.

Cheers, Joerg

bee happy (now I am!)


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## jgrizle (May 21, 2015)

Do you ever have any problems with it breaking from getting glued down with propolis?


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## carlinmo (Jun 6, 2010)

To answer the questions:
I never completely close the bottom entrance. I believe they need some lower access to be able to clean the hive out from the bottom. I reduce the bottom entrance with a reducer to about 2 inches. In most of my hives 99% of the bees use the middle entrance..

I place the middle entrance between the 2 hive bodies and the supers. The bees will definitely propylize the entrance to the hive bodies. I can usually crack off of the supers without damaging the entrance frame. However it is still a thin shim and will not last forever. I know that I have had some hives for at least four years .

You should expect to get some burr comb (usually drone comb) between the supers and hive bodies when you use this entrance. I believe this is beneficial in that it acts as a queen gap. Last year I pulled 130 frames from my supers and had brood in only four or five. Last year I averaged 70 pounds per hive -- a great year.

Carl Korschgen


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## Biermann (May 31, 2015)

Thanks Carl, much appreciated. I installed it between honey super 2 & 3 and have two deep brood.

It seems the bees just suntan and dance on top and do a lot of propylizing. Maybe they just need a little time.

@jgrizle - one mistake I made was build the frame to tight, the next one will be a little more 'sloppy' and one has to be careful, but once installed it can stay until removal of the honey supers, so I don't see to big of a problem. Once one is made, it only takes 10 minutes to make a bunch from left over wood. 

Maybe it should have a handrail to avoid bee injuries it is deep!

Cheers, Joerg


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## Biermann (May 31, 2015)

Hello, 

I will try to add a short video clip showing what my bees do (or not do) I have only a few seen flying away and landing on the upper entrance.






Should the entrance opening be higher? If compared to the bottom, it is only 1/2 the height.

Joerg


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

The guy who taught me was big into boring holes in all his honey supers and top boxes in deeps. 
It taught me to look where I put my paws before I grab. It relates to this topic in that his theory was to save workers a lot of travel-time. Training the field bees to use them holes...he never taught me about that but simply muttered something about that they'll propolize them up if they don't want to use them.


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## Biermann (May 31, 2015)

Could it be that the bees on the top are only young worker bees and can't/don't want to fly, yet?

Maybe it is just to late in the season to teach my bees new tricks?

Joerg


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## Faith Apiaries (Apr 28, 2015)

I built a couple of these and installed them a few weeks ago on my two strongest hives. My bees totally ignored them, other than having guard bees inside watching the entrance. I removed them and all is good. I place my inner cover notch down and my bees love that as an upper entrance.


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## Biermann (May 31, 2015)

Hello again,

One more photo and the question again:



> Could it be that the bees on the top are only young worker bees and can't/don't want to fly, yet?
> 
> Maybe it is just to late in the season to teach my bees new tricks?


Very few fly of the entrance or land at it.









Cheers, Joerg


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## Colobee (May 15, 2014)

Great ideas & approaches.

I've found that slipping a super back 3/4", and laying an entrance reducer across the gap created in the front is the simplest, easiest & least "resource & effort" demanding approach. I suppose you could call it the "super-slide". 

The design of standard supers is such that there is no opening in the back when one is slid back 3/4" over the one below - the inside top box simply overhangs the bottom outside in the back, with perhaps a hairline crack that the bees soon propolize shut.








The 3/4" gap across the front is the same width as a standard entrance reducer. If one didn't mind a small handful of "specialty pieces", one could make "entrance reducers" that are 1-1/2" longer (the outside width of whatever size box you are using). The bees also quickly propolize the reducer into place, and there is usually enough existing propolis to hold it there to begin with. Obviously, you can vary the entrance size with the ease of changing the reducer.















As usual, there are often many solutions to a given "problem". This has been my "simplest solution" for decades, and it _wasn't_ my idea. The bees do often take a week or three to become accustomed to it. However if you are uniting a divide , above a double screen over a parent colony - problem also solved.

If you are looking for a top entrance for the winter, well, there are plenty of options there, as well.


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