# Hive beetle problem



## quigibo (Jun 23, 2014)

Thought I had my hive beetle problem under control but with all the rain + flooding in TX it has got worse.. Did a split earlier in the year which did not take. Hive beetles moved in and turned the frames into a rotting mess with a ton of their little worms in every cell. Cleaned up that hive far away from the other ones and did a heavy pesticide drench around the hives to kill any offspring. Did another walk away split from #1 hive that was doing good. That split #3 is doing good. Hive #2 doing good. Then Hive #1 decided to swarm. Still a lot of bees in #1 so I thought it would survive. Then I noticed the beetles moved in and all bees left. Moved #1 away from other hives and cleaned it up. Tons of beetles in there but did not see any beetle larvae crawling yet. I usually don't remove all the boxes just do a quick visual to see how the frames are and never see any beetles. So this weekend I checked #2 + #3 thoroughly. Bunch of beetles only on the bottom board being chased by the bees. I killed all of them.....Then in #2 I noticed a nice big fat bee laying there. Looks like moving everything around killed the queen also. :-( I put in some beetle traps with oil in them on the outside of the bottom box and closed them up. 

Now for the questions:
#1. How often should you remove all the frames to check for beetles and where is the best place to put the traps?
#2 What is the best way to clean up the frames from the hives where the beetles ruined? I tapped the frames on the cement and killed the live ones. The frames that had the most on I put in the freezer but ran out of space. Will that kill the larvae? I then moved the hive about 50 yards away to let the bees clean them up. Is that ok? I plan to check daily to see if any beetles are in them. Last time I scraped them down and melted the wax down.
#3 What is the best setup to keep the beetles out? Does raising them higher off the ground help. Mine are currently on cement blocks. Also mine are in a wooded area since there is no other place for them. Plan on moving the survivor hives about 20 yards away where I can spray the area before I move them and raise them higher off the ground level. Will that help? I noticed the beetles like to fly.


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## Obie1 (May 27, 2015)

following


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

I am sorry to hear of your problems with SHB. Fortunately, I haven't had an issue, although some could have flown in as I was completing my last inspection.
The best defense is a strong hive. I have read SHB adults can fly three to fifteen miles, depending which source you choose to believe.
Honey and comb once slimed is not fit for bees or human consumption. Freezing or burning will kill eggs and larvae.
Good Luck

Alex


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## Stonewall (Aug 27, 2013)

In the southern peidmont of North Carolina, we are in SHB land. I had significant problems when I had hives in a shaded wooded area. How all the hives are in full sun and with a gravel bed extending 2 feet fron the edges of the hive. This has reduced the SHB infestations to almost zero. I only occasionally see a single beetle upon inspections. My experence is that no other intervention or treatments are needed beyond this.


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## Moccasin (May 18, 2010)

There has been a BT discovered that only kills beetles and their larvae. It was sold under a couple of brand names for potato beetle control. I am sorry to have found out it has been completely replaced with spinosad. I would like to find it again because it could have been sprayed on combs of small hives to prevent beetles. If anyone finds it for sale again I would like to know.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Moccasin said:


> There has been a BT discovered that only kills beetles and their larvae. It was sold under a couple of brand names for potato beetle control. I am sorry to have found out it has been completely replaced with spinosad. I would like to find it again because it could have been sprayed on combs of small hives to prevent beetles. If anyone finds it for sale again I would like to know.


If it exists, we would ALL love to find it.


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## quigibo (Jun 23, 2014)

Found a good article on the SHB's that I think answers most of my questions. Wish I had a sunny location to move them to. With all the rain we have had and is forecast this week it is going to be hard keeping them out of the surviving hives.


http://www.clemson.edu/extension/beekeepers/publications/small_hive_bettle_ipm.html


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## Tom Davidson (Mar 20, 2012)

Put a hard surface underneath and around your hives. Put a bottom oil trap on all of your hives including splits, such as the West or Freeman traps. Dispose with inner covers. Move them to full sun when you can.


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## jbeshearse (Oct 7, 2009)

Moccasin said:


> There has been a BT discovered that only kills beetles and their larvae. It was sold under a couple of brand names for potato beetle control. I am sorry to have found out it has been completely replaced with spinosad. I would like to find it again because it could have been sprayed on combs of small hives to prevent beetles. If anyone finds it for sale again I would like to know.


I think this is the BT you are talking about. I do not endorse it as I have no experience with it:

Bacillus_thuringiensis, VAR san diago.

ARBICO Organics
P.O. Box 8910
Tucson, AZ 85738-0910
Phone: (800) 827-2847
http://www.arbico-organics.com/


They show it but do not carry it... sorry
jeb


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## Barhopper (Mar 5, 2015)

West traps under the SBB are the only thing that worked for me to get rid of the beetles in my yard with shade and trees. My yards in full sun don't seem to have problems. If you work your bees every couple of weeks the process of working them will cause the beetles to hunt a dark place i.e. the West trap. Hard surface will help with the larvae when they go in the ground but adults will fly a long way for a nice home.


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## TurnTex (Mar 6, 2015)

I use oil traps under a screen for all of my 6 colonies. I build my own and they just work. I had a swarm I captured in a 5 frame deep nuc with solid bottom. I was using a top feeder and was seeing at least a dozen SHB in there. I switched them out to a 10 frame deep with oil trap and no longer see SHB in the hive or feeder. I was out there one evening and watched a SHB buzzing around. The guard bees were trying to keep it out but it landed and sneaked in. I went to the back of the hive and pulled my oil trap and sure enough, there he/she was swimming in the oil. My traps catch a LOT of SHB but I just do not see them at all in the hives when I do weekly inspections. They just seem to work wonderful for me.


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## jbeshearse (Oct 7, 2009)

Moccasin said:


> There has been a BT discovered that only kills beetles and their larvae. It was sold under a couple of brand names for potato beetle control. I am sorry to have found out it has been completely replaced with spinosad. I would like to find it again because it could have been sprayed on combs of small hives to prevent beetles. If anyone finds it for sale again I would like to know.



Novodor is the tradename for the product. it is showing as still active. You may contact Valent-biosciences and see if they are in fact selling it still. It is listed on their website. 

Bacillus thuringiensis subspecies tenebrionis (Btt)

http://cropprotection.valentbioscie...-biorational-crop-protection/products/novodor

A fairly detailed article on rise and fall of effectiveness, tradenames and when they were created and discontinued.

http://www.researchgate.net/profile...enebrionis/links/0046351e713f5a0efb000000.pdf


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## marshmasterpat (Jun 26, 2013)

My apiary is very flat and so we have had an inch of water across much of the area for several days at a time multiple times this year due to all the rain. I was thinking this was really knocking down the hive beetle pupae survival in the ground because it has been a slow year for SHB here so far. And I started some really weak NUCs just playing around with so things. Not a problem so far. :scratch:

Sorry to hear about your issues. 

Anyone willing to be the guinea pig with trying this Btt. Might work but :no: for me.


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## SG12 (Feb 27, 2011)

From the Novodor material safety sheet - no information on hive beetle effectiveness, but it doesn't sound promising with bees:

12. ECOLOGICAL INFORMATION
--------------------------
ECOLOGICAL INFORMATION: Studies on non-targets have been performed.
The following species have been included in the testing: mammals
(rats, rabbits); freshwater aquatic organisms (Daphnia magna,
Rainbow Trout); birds (Mallard, Bobwhite); and non-target insects
(Green Lacewing larvae, Ladybird Beetles, Honey Bee). Slight
toxicity was observed in Daphnia, Ladybird beetles, and honey bees
exposed to Novodor Technical material.


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## jbeshearse (Oct 7, 2009)

This is kinda funny. You know how these web trackers work, one of the ads on beesource after I did my searches: Notice it specifically lists SHB.

http://www.bugsforgrowers.com/produ...ontent=indicapage&utm_campaign=summer15nemahi


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## crocodilu911 (Apr 17, 2015)

I would raise higher. make sure to keep humidity out of the hives. I had same problem with a hive, 3rd deep high, got some rain water in and SHB started infecting the outside honey frame. I knocked it down to 2 boxes, and that seemed to take care of it. 

it is so complicated to protect against the beetle, and I think it is a case by case situation. I find that if your queen is right, they protect better. make your splits smaller, until your queen is right, maybe only 5-6 frames. I would make 3-4 brood, with 2 honey on the side. pack with bees, that way they protect better. make sure the frames are in the middle of box. when the queen is right, fill box up with frames....maybe give 2 extra foundation frames when you make it, in case they need to more room, the bees will draw them out, and if they don't , then SHB will not affect foundation.

other than that, I have yet to find a chemical that is 100% effective and will not hurt bees.


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## quigibo (Jun 23, 2014)

crocodilu911 said:


> I would raise higher. make sure to keep humidity out of the hives. I had same problem with a hive, 3rd deep high, got some rain water in and SHB started infecting the outside honey frame. I knocked it down to 2 boxes, and that seemed to take care of it.
> 
> it is so complicated to protect against the beetle, and I think it is a case by case situation. I find that if your queen is right, they protect better. make your splits smaller, until your queen is right, maybe only 5-6 frames. I would make 3-4 brood, with 2 honey on the side. pack with bees, that way they protect better. make sure the frames are in the middle of box. when the queen is right, fill box up with frames....maybe give 2 extra foundation frames when you make it, in case they need to more room, the bees will draw them out, and if they don't , then SHB will not affect foundation.
> 
> other than that, I have yet to find a chemical that is 100% effective and will not hurt bees.


Thanks croc. I think that was the start of my problem. I gave the bees too much space to guard. I'm hoping the surviving hives make it through the rain that is forecast the next few days so I can go back in and fix them up. When I started last year I thought the worst thing was my burr comb.


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## ptwat (May 1, 2008)

I have been using H. Indica for many years and some of my hives are in shade all day. Even in bad months I rarely see more than 5-6 SHB in a hive. I am totally convinced on the beneficial nematodes. For very little money you can treat the ground on many hives and it lasts all year.
I have no financial interest in any company selling them.



jbeshearse said:


> This is kinda funny. You know how these web trackers work, one of the ads on beesource after I did my searches: Notice it specifically lists SHB.
> 
> http://www.bugsforgrowers.com/produ...ontent=indicapage&utm_campaign=summer15nemahi


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## Stonewall (Aug 27, 2013)

I have used H. Indica in the past and like the idea. I may order some to apply.


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## Moccasin (May 18, 2010)

Thanks for the help finding the BT and thanks for showing me the dangers. I think I really want to get some of the Nematodes now. I am starting to be convinced that if you don't move your apiaries to new locations the small hive beetles build in population over the years in the soil around the hives, creating an overwhelming amount of young egg laying beetles fresh from beneath the hives. I would like to stop them from being able to mature at least in my apiary. It seems I would be helping to get control of at least that stage. I read a well respected bee professor Keith Delaplane's article on the nematodes. He said they really worked out for his apiary too. The strain Indicus also helps control Japanese beetles and some other pests so it sounds really great!


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## my2cents (Jul 9, 2015)

I have been researching as much as I can read on the SHB. I have thought to put salt down in front of the hives. My thought is the salt will kill the larvae and kill the grass that grows up in front of the hives . Water softener Salt is inexpensive .


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

Have been looking at what to do about shb as well. 

Been watching what they do and how my bees react when I cause the beetles to move out of hiding. 
The reaction of the bees varies from colony to colony from "meh, whaterver" to "ATTACK!!!".
I'm totally noting which colonies are which because I want bees that attack the beetles.
Have bees that chase, bite, and try to sting beetles. Those are keepers. 

I thought about treating hives and the area for beetle larva but as it has been pointed out already...once the larva leaves the colony the damage is already done. Killing it now is good but don't help your bees much. Maybe someone else's. 

I'm concentrating my efforts of breeding bees that are clean, gentle, go after shb, and if they make some honey that would be nice too. In general my most hygenic bees are not the best honey producers but there is a happy medium and a guy I know has found it. 

Wish me luck because I'm treatment free 100%.


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## philip.devos (Aug 10, 2013)

Most of the participants in this discussion are in southern states. Three years ago SHB were quite numerous here in MD, but the past 2 years I have seen a few in a couple of my hives, but in very small numbers. I believe the last 2 harsh winters put quite a dent in the SHB populations. 

For what it's worth, I think keeping your colonies a bit on the crowded side is the best preventative.


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