# Fed Up With it.



## dirtholeman (May 25, 2008)

I thought I was gonna really enjoy this, I am a first time wanna be keeper. I got hit by shb in one hive .....totally collapsed, the next hive still appears to have about the same # of bees as when I put them in May. I have fed 50/50 starting out. They have not filled anything with honey , there is a laying pattern. They have built up maybe 4 frames in this whole time ......................crap I am just frustrated as get out. I have had a stroke and my doc told me to find a soothing hobby and this is just stressing me. I failed or got screwed on queens. This really sucks. I thank you for allowing me to vent.

........tim


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

man I don't know where you are located relative to magnolia arkansas??? but it sounds like either you did not feed them quite long enough or are located a bit too much in the piney woods?

venting is quite ok if it make you feel better. a bit more satisfying alternative is to figure out what went wrong and to move on from there...


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## nursebee (Sep 29, 2003)

For me to understand better I'd have to know more about the origin of your hive and your queens. Then I'd like to know about any continued feeding and what 50/50 is. Then I'd like to know who your mentor is or if a bee inspector has seen them.

Soothing hobbies are more like listening to classical music, but that ain't livin. Perhaps choosing to be happy with the wonderment of a child is the way to approach this fabulous insight into the insect world.

SHB will hit all hives, just change the outcome for weak ones.


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## riverrat (Jun 3, 2006)

Bee keeping can be frustrating, time consuming agravating but yet fun and rewarding at the same time. We will be seeing more and more newbeeks that share in your frustration. There has been an large increase in people taking up beekeeping that have no idea what they are actually getting into. Beekeeping is not easy it can be hard hot back breaking work. It takes a lot of knowlege to make a hive work. There is a big learning curve to deal with. Those that are willing to put in the time to learn will enjoy a life long hobby. Those who dont. Well there will cheap equipment on the market soon. Hang in there get past the initial learning curve. The more you learn the easier it will be to mange your hives. it gets better after the first couple of years.


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## MCC (May 30, 2008)

*Do you have kids???*

This is my first year too. May and June they were infants, I was up all night worried about everything, lived in this website. July they were grade schoolers ran around the yard and listened to me. Now I have a bunch of teenagers. They aren't doing anything I expect. I got stung 27 times and they told me"Your being pretty stupid". "We're running the show now." So just go with the flow..... it will work out its nature.


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## tedstruk (Jul 18, 2008)

Hey I have had a hive for almost 10 years but this is my first year of building an Apiary to produce some honey. 
My first swarm came from the wild. I watched them, studied what was going on, and after about 2 years I decided I could be a beekeeper. 

I have had depression, and I really enjoy the bees. Maybe its better to do something you enjoy instead of trying to build an apiary...

My rule of thumb... HOW MUCH WORK IS BEEKEEPING? Take the number of days you planned on working each month on your apiary, and times it by 7. That is just about how much work is involved. However, that does not include all the extras, like honey extracting and nucleus box building. Heck I haven't even gotten started. this morning, I found that baby bees can fit through the holes in a top feeder...not a pretty site, sure glad I went out there and checked...I dumped some water in there, to free them from the sticky...all but one survived that I know of !!! They don't get anymore sugar until tomorrow when the water is gone!!!


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## MichelinMan (Feb 18, 2008)

So like my buddy said "Cheer up... it could be worse!" So I cheered up and it got worse. No really, sorry to hear about your bad luck. But don`t give up. It is a great hobby. I could list the benefits here but my post would go on until tomorrow.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Sorry to hear of your troubles....... I've had a few too.

It sounds like bad stock?? Or very poor location.

I would urge you not to give up, but if it truly does
cause you loads of stress then it may be a wise 
idea. A stroke is a serious matter and stress is not
something you need.

Tell us more about your hive location. Shaded?? Nectar
sources??

And what breed? Were they packages?? Are you feeding
now?? Did you run with pollen patties??


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## Eaglerock (Jul 8, 2008)

nursebee said:


> For me to understand better I'd have to know more about the origin of your hive and your queens. Then I'd like to know about any continued feeding and what 50/50 is.


 50/50 is 1:1

DirtHoleMan- you should have fed them 2:1 maybe. Although when I started these ones I have behind my office, I filled a gallon jug 3/4 with sugar and 1/4 water... so 3:1 is what I did. You were giving them a lot of water to deal with I think. 1:1 is ok...well most anything they will take. 

Tim, you need to always step back and take a look at things. With bees you never know what they will do next... you will enjoy it more if you will take things as they come and understand that they will not always do like we want. Just about the time you think they have grown strong, they swarm. Or, they might not produce like you would hoped for. If you are doing this to relax, then, by all means, relax and understand that maybe next year they will do better. If you know a local beekeeper, then ask him to take a look at your hive. He/she, might see something that you were not aware of.... i.e. - face them towards the east or south east to get the morning sun, so they will start working earlier. You will get through this... just take a deep breath and don't give up.... and above all... know you are not the first that has had these problems, and you will not be the last... plus... even the best beekeeper has these problems...it is not something that only you or a new beekeeper has gone through.

Keep the Faith.... Your Fellow Bee Keepers are behind you!
Ed


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## dirtholeman (May 25, 2008)

Thanks for listening guys, I just feel failure, what hurts so bad is I am disabled now and use to be the breadwinner of our house. Now everything I do I seem to fail at. I give ya the run down.

I ordered my bees in january for them to arrive in may. I am in piney woods area, but there is alot of hardwood scattered around along with tons of pastureland and areas that are bushhogged once a year. 

When I got the bees I placed the hives on level ground (morning to afternoon sun)with a blue tarp under them anchored to the ground. The bottom board sits on bricks for an elevation of about 4 inches. I placed the bees in the hive of wire bee wax base in the frames. The bees are european with italian queens. I had no problem with the release of the queens and they started a laying pattern right away.

I began feeding them with 50/50 sugar water. This was about 3 week I done so. Then the flow must have started cause the quit the sugar water and I saw alot of in and out activity.

The hives were spaced about 3 feet apart. I found the shb in a late form as they were a wiggling pile on the bottom board. I cleaned it all well as I could. and killed every beetle I saw. The hive next to it was doing very well in comparison (I Thought) . 

A few weeks later hive 1 went down,,,,no bees. I figured well I will just have one to focus on now. Well I cant find a queen, I cant see where they are trying to rear one but there is capped brood in a decent pattern. 

I did not feed pollen patties. they had a load of pollen stored in frames.

I am however now feeding again due to drought. The number of bees are holding but not growing. Do I need another queen or is it too late?

I do appreciate any help

thanks

tim


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## dirtholeman (May 25, 2008)

Thanks Ed


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## Eaglerock (Jul 8, 2008)

dirtholeman said:


> The number of bees are holding but not growing. Do I need another queen or is it too late?
> 
> 
> 
> tim


Tim I would give it a try... I seen someone in here with queens for sale today. Some re-queen in the fall.


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## Eaglerock (Jul 8, 2008)

dirtholeman said:


> Thanks Ed


You're Welcome Tim.


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## BeeAware (Mar 24, 2007)

If you cannot find eggs or unsealed brood, you may have lost the queen. If you can buy a queen, it is not too late to replace her. For SHB you can sprinkle a layer of white salt on the ground around the hive to help kill any beetle larva that would enter the ground. Or you can use GardStar to drench the soil around the hive, being careful not to get it on or into the hive. Use a watering can to drench the ground.

All these problems are a challenge, to be sure, but they can be overcome. I would feed them 1:1 sugar syrup during spring and summer, but then switch to 2:1 for fall feeding. As far as honey is concerned, you will not be likely to get a surplus until the 2nd year.


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## Brent Bean (Jun 30, 2005)

Sorry to hear that your first experience with beekeeping was not a good one. But learn form the experience it seems like I learn more when things don’t go as planned and I have to apply more brain power to solve the problem. Any agricultural endeavor is a lot like gambling, sometime things go good sometimes every disease or pest slap’s you in the kisser. 
When life gives you lemons make lemonade. Don’t give up to easily when things work the rewards of beekeeping make it worth the effort.


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

I think you need someone with experience to take a look. You may well have a virgin queen. Without a frame of eggs its hard to tell. If you have a virgin, they will kill the new queen. I would feed until fall for sure and see if you can get a frame of eggs from someone. If they start queen cells on the new eggs, no queen. If they don't, you have a queen that will start laying soon most likely. I would remove the tarp as well. It may have no effect or it could create a micro climate that is unhealthy. For instance, it could hold water under the hives, or it could reflect a lot of heat. Get a West trap or make one for the SHB. Oh, and hang in there.


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## dirtholeman (May 25, 2008)

Ross , that is what I was thinking about the tarp. If I take it up I will have to move the hive a few feet, will this create a problem with their homing ? 
I am not gonna give up guys, it seems like when I work with the bees I am in another world, nothing but them and I. I enjoy it but I just have a rough time with the failing part. I am gonna get with our conservation office and locate a mentor. I feel that this is something I want to do badly, but I need the help of a seasoned keeper. 


Thank you for all the replys.

Tim


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

some dirthole man snips followed by tecumseh comments:

I ordered my bees in january for them to arrive in may. I am in piney woods area, but there is alot of hardwood scattered around along with tons of pastureland and areas that are bushhogged once a year. 
tecumseh>you are in an especially tough part of the country to raise bees. the dirt is acidic and the season is short. there is likely more blooming plants along the river and streams than anywhere else, but even those are of short duration. by may (at your location) you need to have the honey crop in the hive... from may to june the nectar flow is in decline with perhaps the only nectar source remaining being a bit of white dutch clover in pastures in the bottomlands.

I began feeding them with 50/50 sugar water. This was about 3 week I done so. Then the flow must have started cause the quit the sugar water and I saw alot of in and out activity.
tecumseh>the hive (started on foundation) failure to take up sugar water signaled that the hive was having problem. what exactly happened at that point in would be extremely speculative.

The hives were spaced about 3 feet apart. I found the shb in a late form as they were a wiggling pile on the bottom board. I cleaned it all well as I could. and killed every beetle I saw. The hive next to it was doing very well in comparison (I Thought) . tecumseh> you found this problem a bit to late to remedy (which is going to happen in about 50% of the time-ie it a bit like flipping a coin). sounds like wax moth had gotten a hold and perhaps the bees had absconded. it might also suggest a supersceded queen (a good likelyhood) with not enough resources to make the transition. 

but there is capped brood in a decent pattern. 
tecumseh> excellent, this suggest you have an active queen in the hive. 

I did not feed pollen patties. they had a load of pollen stored in frames.
tecumseh> at your location unless you desire to bump the population in the early winter you will likely never need to feed pollen.

I am however now feeding again due to drought. The number of bees are holding but not growing. Do I need another queen or is it too late?
tecumseh>good, at this point I would continue to feed and monitor, every two weeks for any growth. once you begin feeding (assuming you have a queen which I think you do) you should begin to noctice changes in about 30 days.

sometimes the best remedy is to simply move the bees to a better location. the alternative is to work within the limits of your current location.

a mentor via the county extension agent would be most excellent. if that comes to naught, pm me here on this board since I travel up in your direction from time to time. 

do not let the bees adversely affect your attitude or health. for most folks the bees should provide a bit of god's sweetness plus some satisfaction in understanding on the part of the beekeeper.

and good luck...


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## SnowyOwl (Aug 16, 2008)

*Reply to Tim on SHBs with links*



dirtholeman said:


> Ross , that is what I was thinking about the tarp. If I take it up I will have to move the hive a few feet, will this create a problem with their homing ?
> I am not gonna give up guys, it seems like when I work with the bees I am in another world, nothing but them and I. I enjoy it but I just have a rough time with the failing part. I am gonna get with our conservation office and locate a mentor. I feel that this is something I want to do badly, but I need the help of a seasoned keeper. . . .Tim


Hi Tim--I'm a newbee like yourself, so I don't have years of experience but fwiw I can relate to your frustration with the SHBs and the trials of a new beek. I can also understand what you have been facing after your stroke, as two of my own family members have had strokes. But let me encourage you to give yourself more credit: you're typing on here, and managing your hives even though it's difficult at times, so it sounds to me like you've beaten the odds. And in time, you'll be even better, no doubt. So hang in there.

Have you done much research or tried different SHB traps? They do work, and I've used three with varying results. I haven't tried the largest West traps, since I use all 8-frame equipment, but they go under the main hive body and are full size, and you can remove a tray to check on the SHBs killed, so I've been told. They're sold on many sites, and are usually $11-12. Another type is the Hood beetle trap, which hangs nailed on one frame in your upper brood chamber (use position one; it does take up one frame). Very inexpensive, and uses mineral oil (FGMO=food grade mineral oil, found at drug stores) plus cider vinegar in separate chambers. I think it's inventor, Dr Hood of SC, is a member of BeeSource. That trap is sold by Brushy Mtn Bee Farm among others.

Another I tried with some success is the newer AJs Beetle Eater--a small black plastic tray that is filled with vegetable oil (not olive oil) 3 ml deep, and hangs suspended between two frames in the uppermost brood box. The Australian inventor has written on here (do a search) and other forums, and recommends covering it with a vinyl sheet to stop the bees propolizing the openings. That is the biggest negative (in summer reduces ventilation, somewhat) though it works.

Linda Tillman, (Tillie on BeeSource) author of Linda's Bee blog from Atlanta, has successfully used the homemade Sonny-Mel beetle traps, and I just installed those. They are easier to check since they are placed higher in the hive, over the top bars or even over the hivetop feeder. You might have to add a shim/narrow super to accommodate them depending on your space if you don't have a hivetop feeder. She has excellent instructions for making the traps, and the recipe for the bait, on her website, including a slideshow. See the links below.

And BTW, your tarp may actually be an advantage, since it keeps the ground around the hive cleaner; many beeks use similar methods to prevent ants and other pests gaining access. Just keep it dry and there should be no problem; it also allows you easy viewing of the pests falling through the bottom. If you're not using a SBB (screened bottom board), that will help also; improves ventilation in summer, and some SHB fall through bottom board. Pardon the length of this; I hope this helps!

See Linda's Bee blog--the oldest links are for different Hood beetle traps; the video is the second link below for Sonny-Mel traps:

http://beekeeperlinda.blogspot.com/2007/04/full-on-attack-against-small-hive.html

http://beekeeperlinda.blogspot.com/2007/05/small-hive-beetle-trap-saga.html

http://beekeeperlinda.blogspot.com/2007/10/small-hive-beetle-status-as-of-today.html

http://beekeeperlinda.blogspot.com/2006/09/small-hive-beetle-trap-is-working.html

http://beekeeperlinda.blogspot.com/2006/09/integrated-pest-management-begins-at.html

And you can do a search for more SHB solutions on her site, as well as here on BeeSource. Good luck!


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## Swellsalot (Nov 8, 2006)

Tim,

I'm in Stuttgart, have you found any queen cells or torn down queen cells in your hives? We have had a lot of swarming this year and the hive ends up queenless, once this happens they get weak and the beetles will move in. You need to do something for a trap, I had two hives last year that were being overrun with beetles and I made a screened bottom board that I could slide a cookie sheet underneath it filled with veg. oil, this helped a lot, on one hive I killed about 200 beetles in the first week and the hive recovered. If you find frames with beetle larva in them you can put them in the freezer for a couple of days to kill them and the put the frames out and the bees will clean them up although the queen may not use them in the hive again. 

Don't give up, just stay after the beetles, and it helps to keep you hive space small so that the bees can take care of it. If you have 2 boxes and only need one remove it until they are built up strong enough to take care of the extra space. 

Ron


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## Troutsqueezer (May 17, 2005)

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." 

-Sir Winston Churchill


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

dirtholeman said:


> Ross , that is what I was thinking about the tarp. If I take it up I will have to move the hive a few feet, will this create a problem with their homing ?
> I am not gonna give up guys, it seems like when I work with the bees I am in another world, nothing but them and I. I enjoy it but I just have a rough time with the failing part. I am gonna get with our conservation office and locate a mentor. I feel that this is something I want to do badly, but I need the help of a seasoned keeper.
> 
> 
> ...


Tim, where you said "in another world"...now that's what it's all about!!! :thumbsup: You can't get that kind of therapy in a brick building!!!!  You're already *way* ahead of me...I don't even have any bees in my yard, yet! It'll be late winter or early spring before I'll be bringing my hives home. It'll be exciting to have them to work with!! In the meantime I'm reading and studying all that I can. Your posting here is helping me learn and understand things more!

One way to look at it is that an apiary is a kingdom. Each hive is a village that you control, but the villagers aren't exactly easily controlled nor do they want to be controlled. Each territory has a queen, some mostly gold bricking princes, and a legion or ten of faithful and loyal (to the village) workers that basically run and protect the territory. 

As long as things are going their way the villagers are ok, they go about their merry way working themselves to an early death all for the betterment of the village. But let a few things go wrong with their village and they're ready to revolt!!! They sometimes become combative and brandishing their pointed spears call for a war with the King. Sometimes they have marauders and robbers attacking so bad they they call for a wholesale exodus from the village leaving it behind to be raped and pillaged by the hordes of outlaws lurking nearby. Plagues can strike, leaving the village sickly and dieing. The odds are stacked greatly against today's villages...their numbers are great, but the enemies are greater and they weld weapons of mass destruction.

So many things can go wrong or happen to the village that is greater than the village can overcome if left on their own. This is where the King of this kingdom (the beek) steps in. It's up to the King to study the war maps, to draw up battle plans, and to instigate methods to repel the enemies of the villages. There will be losses, there will be victories. The villagers will be faithfully (faithful to the village, not the King) standing by to do their work in raising more workers, filling the warehouses with stores for the winter, and even to unknowingly build a surplus for the King.

With the King's knowledge and wisdom there is a good change the village will survive and continue on with it's busy life. Are the villagers grateful?...nah, the villagers could care less about the King and most of the time they resent him while seeking to do him bodily harm. When the most recent skirmish is over they don't even acknowledge the King's help. But, the king, even with setbacks and losses, and having had to retreat and regroup, realizes the villagers don't appreciate him as he sits back and smiles, knowing his noble cause is still just and ultimately will be successful.

Hang in there, Tim, use your experiences for future battles.
Long live the King!!!!!

 Ed


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## johnblagg (May 15, 2011)

thats sad but dont get too upset ...equipment is lasting and swarms to be caught can be exciting to start again and low cost ...I have only bought one packge of bees ever and that was 20 years ago from sears ...all the rest i have caught as swarms ...and now that I have a few boxes to use Its all just something to enjoy for me ...losses are a bother but not a disaster for me its just how I am learning what not to do ....


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## Benthic (May 1, 2011)

You guys know that this thread is about three years old, and that Tim (dirtholeman) hasn't been on the forum in over two years...right? 

Brian


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Aw, MAN!!!! Thanks for being awake at the wheel, Brian!!!


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## woodguyrob (Jul 29, 2010)

Sheez..I was getting my inspriational fix for the day....


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## Benthic (May 1, 2011)

No worries Ed! It doesn't change the value of what you wrote. I'm sure it will be helpful to others.

Brian


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## woodedareas (Sep 10, 2010)

Well your not alone in many ways. I too lost all my hives probably due to bad stock from an Illinois bee keeper but I will be at it again next year. I am probably older than you and also have health problems. Our lives change and it takes a long time to adjust especially if you have been the bread earner for years. Plan ahead for next year and get your bees from someone else, and join a bee club and ask for a mentor. By the way you didn't fail,you just learned.


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## LauraJS (Mar 3, 2011)

Welcome to my world. My May bees are a frame behind yours and I did re-queen once. But hopefully soon they will pick up a bit. We were in an awful drought and just now getting our spring green up. If they get busy and grow some more babies soon, they might make enough stuff to get through winter. My winter is 8 months so I am not hopeful, my backup plan is to move them to a neighbors 90 miles away for 2 more months of alfalfa field growing season and see if they can get bigger down there off this mountain.


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