# Hello from Alaska, I'm interested in the top bar hive....



## S. Sparkes (Feb 11, 2015)

Hi my name is Sarah, I've wanted to have honey bees for years and plan to start keeping bees this year. I would love any advice for a total beginner and special considerations for keeping bees in the far north. From the reading I've done, I'm very interested in the top bar hive. Would it work well here? Will it produce enough honey during our short summers? (As compared to the more traditional hives). We live on a south facing hillside with the coldest temperature at -30 in our 10 years on this property. 
Thank-you,
Sarah


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## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

Sarah, First of let me welcome you to the site. It is not my intention to dash your dreams, and I encourage you to pursue them. I just want you to understand it is not a easy endeavor. I kept bees in Fairbanks a little over 30 years ago. you will have to give them every advantage possible. the growing season is short and the bees have about 4 1/2 months to do what bees in the lower 48 have at least 6 months to do. The advantage you have is when the bloom is on there it is really on big time. You will also have to leave the girls enough stores to overwinter. Which means you will have less for yourself. I used 10 frame super that had been reduced inside to hold 8 frames the inner walls were reduced with 3/8" plywood, with foam in between. The same was done on the outside of the front and back. I do not want to take up to much of this post so I will let it go at that, but if you ask specific questions Other will offer good advice, I am sure I am not the only one here to have kept bees in Alaska. If not I will help all I can. I kept them at my cabin in Circle also about 65 miles N.E. of you

Oh By the way, Forget the top bar hive way to difficult for your location.


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## JohnnyDanger (Jan 20, 2015)

I am new to beekeeping too (hoping to get my first hives this year), so take what I say with a grain of salt. But I'm in Calgary Alberta, and we hit similar low temperatures as yourself (-30 to -40F), although we presumably have a shorter winter (and some breaks when we get Chinooks which can raise our temperatures to 50-70F for a few days). Anyways, I am planning on starting up a couple of top bar hives based on meeting people in Calgary who have successfully overwintered in top bars here. 

So Tenbears- out of curiosity why do you say top bars won't work? Just curious. I could see Langs might  be better at keeping warm due to their vertical orientation versus horizontal. But presumably some decent insulation on a top bar could make up for that. Any other reasons you don't think it would work?


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## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

Welcome Sarah! The issue in cold climates is the bees ability to generate and maintain heat within a colony that is by nature vertical, in a home that is horizontal, complicated by the fact that heat rises - up not left or right. The perfect space would be a sphere or cubic.


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## b2bnz (Apr 5, 2009)

Coming from a warmer climate where the cold does not affect my bees, I am always amazed that beekeepers in colder climates do not use the A-Z hives of Eastern Europe. These are a vertical hives with the frames being worked from the back of the hive in a horizontal plane. The hives are built permanently into a bee house, with just the entrance exposed, and are therefore protected from the elements. An additional working space is allowed at the rear of the bee house so that the beekeeper is also able to work in a heated area out of the snow and wind. Would this not appear to be a far more economical way of protecting bees during long cold winters?
Google A-Z hives for more info!


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

If steve peterson is still selling bees in Fairbanks get ahold of him. He's off of Farmers loop, The last time I was at his place he had a top bar hive swinging underneath the bottom of his house on the side of the hill. 

Personally I think top bar hives are a waste of time if you plan on overwintering the bees anywhere north of San Diego and certainly Seattle. Last I checked that means north of Talkeetna and Nenana as well. 

As one who has had bees off of Badger Rd. ( the Fairbanks side) and down in Delta you are going to have a very interesting if not hard time doing accomplishing your goal successfully. No more beautiful place in the US to keep bees but the spell like you just went through will eat them alive.... http://www.newsminer.com/news/local...cle_c201fb82-a59b-11e4-8c80-c3e0e0aa8415.html


Your recent 50 degree warm up will get the chill of their back but its barely enough as its a long way from the first week of September until mid April. http://www.newsminer.com/weather/

http://www.newsminer.com/arctic_cam/


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## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

Although the extreme cold plays a role in winter hive management. The extended period of cold combined with extremes presents additional problems with the horizontal hives. During extreme cold bees are not only reluctant to move laterally they simply cannot. Combined wit 8 months of cold that makes foraging nearly imposable, means that the bees must have ample food reserves easily accessible for the long hall. by the nature of the comb it is difficult for the bees to move laterally while maintaining heat, as where they can as a unit move upward and even downward. In a horizontal hive upon the onset of winter we would like to manipulate the hive so the bees were for the most part at one end. In that way they move from one end to the other as they consume stores, However bees being bee move about during the changing temperatures at the onset of fall. If they wind up in or near the center, then as they work their way through the hive they can wind up on one end with a large space between them and the remaining stores, basically making them inaccessible. I am not a top bar hater. In fact I have tried and enjoy nearly every hive configuration. Thus I feel I am equipped to understand the limitations and advantages of the different designs. But I am in no way claiming to be the authority on the subject. Just trying to save the OP some heart ache and expense.


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## JohnnyDanger (Jan 20, 2015)

Thanks for the reply Tenbears. I had not previously thought of the bees having a more difficult time moving laterally (vs vertically in a Lang) due to the comb, that makes sense.


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## JohnnyDanger (Jan 20, 2015)

Thanks for the reply Tenbears. I had not previously considered that it would be more difficult for the cluster to move due to the comb (versus vertically in a lang), that makes sense.


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## S. Sparkes (Feb 11, 2015)

Thanks everyone for your response to my question about top bar hives. It sounds like the top bar hive may not produce as much honey, but part of my desire to use this type of hive is the initial cost - my husband can easily make me a couple..... it's a tough decision and I appreciate all your input.


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## TalonRedding (Jul 19, 2013)

If you just want a few colonies, why not build a cellar to overwinter in? I've never been in the Interior and I'm sure the frost line would make things difficult, but it's a thought. Temps would be more steady for the bees but not warm enough to make them overactive. Take good care of them so they can hit the ground running. Alaska has more flowers than you can shake a stick at, but they don't last long. Good luck and keep us posted on how it goes!


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## fruitveggirl (Mar 8, 2013)

I have and love my TBHs, but I have no experience with your climate. However, I do know of TBH beeks in places with severe weather like Sweden, Michigan, Maine, and Canada who have successfully kept them. In fact, I spoke with Sam Comfort, who is a professional beek, who has Langs, TBHs, and Warres. He said that his TBHs overwinter better than the Langs, and the Warres overwinter best of all. The Warres also give him more honey than the TBHs.

In a TBH, I don't think that rising heat is such an issue. Because there is nowhere for the heat to rise, it all stays around the cluster. However, in your climate, I would insulate the tops of the bars in winter. I'd probably also use thicker wood for the sides and maybe insulate the sides, too. Definitely some kind of wind block.

If you decide on a TBH, I'd make the combs deeper/wider than the Phil Chandler design that most people use. The less the bees have to travel, the better. 

If cost is an issue, you could also consider Warres. They are inexpensive and easy to construct. 

I've also seen Eastern European hives that are a single horizontal box with very deep frames. Maybe that's another design you could consider if you want to avoid heavy lifting.


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## Cloverdale (Mar 26, 2012)

Welcome Sarah, it will be fun for you; I would start with Langstroth first, then move on if you can. Enjoy! Deb


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