# Permethrin, Verbenone and bees...



## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

Not waring here just my thoughts. I don't think I would rely on a manufacturer or an exterminator when it seems to me that Bee Keepers with 30 plus year of experience could not give you a definitive answer as to the harm it might cause. No it may not kill the bees outright. That does not mean it does not harm them. IF the goal is your bees are not dead that is one thing. if it is that your hive is not accumulating harmful substances, well... not sure anyone can answer that. Could be contributing to CCD in your bees? That is one argument out there.

I suppose in the end you can ponder until your hives are over ran. In the end you have to make a choice. I don't think I would do anything until I knew there was a problem though. But then I am not all that familiar with the problem this beetle might cause either. It just sounds like you have preventative treatment to your trees and are wondering if you should do the same for the hives.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Rene: A legitimate question to be sure. Given the fact that the trees are quite large and the spraying operation is a bit messy I would strongly consider looking for a location for your bees considerably farther than the "stones throw" that you describe at the very least until the spraying is done. I have seen the effects of the Pine Beetle in the South Dakota Black Hills, it's really sad.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

First of all Permethrin is deadly to honey bees read the label (see: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...sg=AFQjCNHuXK77qWhuJ1Rt9znL7WFeMcLnjQ&cad=rja) . It will kill honey bees and many other insects almost instantly. Now the matter of degree... Permethrin is the same chem that is in GardStar (the ground drench approved for use with SHB around bee hives). I suspect that IF applied properly there would be minimal impact to your colonies. However, if improperly applied you could kill all your colonies. As mentioned this will be a messy application and likely result in over spray and chem applied to other areas of your yard. I have used it to keep back ticks and knock down Japanese beetles on trees, but do so VERY carefully and have never had any bee kills. If the chem could be applied late (at dusk) with your colony closed up and covered, then allowed to dry in the morning before releasing your bees you'll likely be OK. I don't like the "morning" spray idea and makes me believe that these people are not well-versed on bee foraging behavior. Bees begin foraging at first light and if the product is sprayed early AM, it will still be wet for a couple of hours while the bees are foraging therefore increasing the risk of exposure. If they are going to spay in March and you're not getting bees until April then no problem until the next time you need treatment. Also, read up on closing and covering honey bee colonies. If outside temps are high it can be more deadly than leaving them open.


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## doggonegardener (Dec 8, 2011)

So, I am really concerned about the Permethrin. I've read the label...actually the MSDS and some research studies. I am curious about the Verbenone. Does anyone have any experience with it? Any knowledge? 

Thanks in advance.

Rene


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