# First cutout - what to do with bucket full of bees??



## BeeCurious

You could do a newspaper combining with another colony. 

Spray a little water on the bees in the bucket and cover with some screen or mesh material for the ride home...


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## marshmasterpat

cjfoster - Bring your frames with you. Put a pair of rubber bands on each end of each frames. As you carefully remove comb (I save both brood and capped honey) set it carefully on a table/hive top/ice chest lid/board and lay a frame on top. Cut the comb to be a snug fit, slide it in and rubber band it in place. I try to save all of the brood comb I can and usefully one or two pieces of capped honey. Place all this in the hive box. Now you have two ways to set up.

1. Bring all this back to your apiary and set the hive box up, take the lid off and dump the bees in. Most of the nurse bees will stay with the brood and they will release a smell that says to everyone "here is home". Most the others will circle in and move in. Have the lid ready and slide it slowly over the hive, leave lid open an inch about 15 to 30 minutes, then close the lid. Keep the opening small for a day until they have repaired everything, resealed the honey leaks, and cleaned up the spilled honey.

2. Set the frames in the hive box and place it very near the location of the old hive. Then dump the bucket of bees into it. Nurse bees will stay... same thing occurs as with #1. Let them all settle in after dark and duck tape the opening shut. Take them home and open in the morning (with your gear on). You have a new hive. 

I keep the bucket in the shade at all times. I have several buckets made to vacuum into (heat will kill them and you have a mess) and do not fill a bucket very full. No more than about 2 pounds. I also carry my bucket with me in the vehicle in the AC. Kill some in the trunk of a car and in the truck bee. So I drive along in my bee gear on. LOL - you bet I get crazy looks.


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## GaryG74

I made "frames" for my buckets using 1X2s and stapled window screen onto the "frames" The length varies as they fit into a round bucket and the height is about 3" less than the height of the bucket so there is airspace, depending on the type of bee vac you have. The "frames" give them something to hang on so you don't have a clump of bees in the bottom of the bucket that get over heated. I made my set up so I could take the vac off the top of the bucket and set a hive body with rubber banded brood on top and the bees could go up into the hive body. I cut a hole a little smaller than the bucket top in a piece of plywood and the outside dimensions were the same as a hive box. Pieces of trim keep it from sliding off the top of the bucket. If you had some way to have screen on openings in the sides of the bucket, you could leave them in the bucket in the shade with no problems if it's not too hot. There are many variations of bee vac but it worked for me.


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## tsmullins

A bee vac is always handy. Especially your first cutout and more so for inside cutouts. But not 100% necessary. By strapping the brood into frames and placing the box with brood frames as close as you can to the original hive, the bees will move into your box. It is pretty cool to watch. 

Then you can combine or feed to build back up. Whatever you think is best. This late it would be hard to get them built back up for winter.

Shane


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## Mr.Beeman

I found that this design works well for many stiuations. It may be a bit combersome, but it is very versitile.


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## Sky

cjfoster72 said:


> My question is this:
> 
> If I don't find the queen, and I have a 5 gallon bucket of bees, what is going to encourage the bees to stay in a hive if I try to dump them in?


Brood! 

if you have comb from the cutout with brood in it - rubber band it in a frame and throw it in the new hive . 

If you don't have any of their own brood, grab a frame from another hive (shake the bees off) and add that to the new hive

if you have neither and managed to capture the queen, cage her for a few days, the bees will not leave her, will start with hive ops, and before you know it will consider their new box home and stay. 

If no queen, then you'll need to get one....
or let them "make" one from supplied eggs (pretty late in year)
or, if you have other hives, do a newspaper combine (either treat new-comers before adding to an existing hive, or treat the whole hive after the combine is done so you any hitchhikers are done away with before getting a foothold in new hive )

Sky


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## fieldsofnaturalhoney

cjfoster72 said:


> Should I try to hive them at the sight of the cutout? Or transport them home in the bucket and try to hive them there? It's an hour trip and I'm also afraid they would get too hot in the bucket for that long.


Yes, I would hive (dump) all of the bees at the site of the cutout, and then maybe one final vacuum once the hive is sealed for transportation (these last few stragglers, on the box/in the cavity) would stay in the OPEN vacuum if it has a cage, if it doesn't they most likely will "fry", or set them close to windows or AC vent. Dump them at the entrance once your hive is set up and opened at its new location. Good Luck, your time is short...


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## cjfoster72

Thanks all. I realize timing is bad, but the home owners need the bees gone. I am helping them out and getting some learning experience under my belt. I'm not charging them, but if I continue to do these in the future, what is a reasonable charge? I realize it would vary by situation.


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## fieldsofnaturalhoney

cjfoster72 said:


> Thanks all. I realize timing is bad, but the home owners need the bees gone. I'm not charging them, but if I continue to do these in the future, what is a reasonable charge? I realize it would vary by situation.


If I had just one dollar for every time a homeowner told me that, You will learn quickly, that the amount of work (pre, during, & post) and time that is involved in a cutout, anything is reasonable if that is what you want to do it for. However, FREE is never reasonable for me. Also remember that there is always a percentage of bees that do not survive the relocation, especially as Fall approaches,.. Free has now put you in the RED.


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## cjfoster72

It's all in perspective I suppose. To me, the experience itself is some sort of payment. I would not feel comfortable charging someone for services I've never performed before. In addition, I know someone that got close to 100 lbs of honey out of a cut out. At $7/lb, that is quite a nice payment in itself....along with the satisfaction of helping someone for FREE! That in itself is rewarding to some! :banana:

Thanks!


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## fieldsofnaturalhoney

cjfoster72 said:


> In addition, I know someone that got close to 100 lbs of honey out of a cut out. At $7/lb, that is quite a nice payment in itself....along with the satisfaction of helping someone for FREE!


My perspective is there are a lot of risk involved for the beek, and liability insurance is a must. Someone still can sue you, even though you did it for FREE, if they feel you damaged their structure.
Keeping cutout honey edible for human consumption is another can of worms,...


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## aunt betty

My advice is to reschedule your cutout for spring. Come back and do it then and by then maybe you'll have all the tools and know-how and a realistic idea of what it takes to do a cutout. 

Right now, I would not do it, my friends would not do it either, and we're all experienced at doing cutouts. I could set you up with some free cutouts if you really want but I'm not going. It's too late and the bees are meaner than... I'm not scheduling any cutouts until spring UNLESS the word "emergency" is used and then my rate triples and I will attack the problem like a fireman. 

You might want to think this over a while and it's not legal to sell honey from a cutout. Feed it back to your bees and then sell it. (whole other issue there)

Oh, do not fill your bucket full of bees or they will die for certain. You have to gauge how many you got and keep it less than half full. A good size colony could take two or three buckets. Vacuum only an hour or hour and a half tops and go slow cuz you're looking for the queen. How you going to catch her and what you going to do with her? PM me and I'll show you a easy way to catch your queen. Finding her is on you.


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## GaryG74

fieldsofnaturalhoney said:


> My perspective is there are a lot of risk involved for the beek, and liability insurance is a must. Someone still can sue you, even though you did it for FREE, if they feel you damaged their structure.
> Keeping cutout honey edible for human consumption is another can of worms,...


Agree with fields. Also, it's illegal in some states to sell honey that "does not come from a HIVE." I always give cutout honey back to the hive it came from. Seeing some of the stuff that's in the walls and attics of old buildings, I wouldn't want to eat any of it.


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## Mr.Beeman

cjfoster72 said:


> It's all in perspective I suppose. To me, the experience itself is some sort of payment. I would not feel comfortable charging someone for services I've never performed before. In addition, I know someone that got close to 100 lbs of honey out of a cut out. At $7/lb, that is quite a nice payment in itself....along with the satisfaction of helping someone for FREE! That in itself is rewarding to some! :banana:
> 
> Thanks!


I'm pretty sure it is illegal to sell cutout honey in most if not all the states. 
Keep in mind that a removal will run about 6-7 hours with prep, to cutout, to final clean up back at the shop. Free doesn't pay bills last I knew. There are not a lot of removal companies out there and it is a small niche service we provide. It is also a necessary service in most instances. Most often when you ask the prospective client if they would relish the idea of not getting paid for 6-7 hours of work, they change their perspective rather quickly.


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## marshmasterpat

"Most often when you ask the prospective client if they would relish the idea of not getting paid for 6-7 hours of work, they change their perspective rather quickly."

I am going to steal that line.


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## aunt betty

marshmasterpat said:


> "Most often when you ask the prospective client if they would relish the idea of not getting paid for 6-7 hours of work WITH LIVE BEES THAT STING, they change their perspective rather quickly."
> 
> I am going to steal that line.


Edited it a little.


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## larryh

..but you get rich off the honey them free bees make


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## cjfoster72

I suppose my position is a bit different than some of yours. I have a full time job outside of beekeeping that pays the bills. This is a hobby to me. I enjoy it. I've never done a cutout, so this is a learning experience. I've been stung many times and I expect I will tomorrow. If I was afraid of getting stung, I wouldn't keep bees!

Even if I don't charge money, I am still getting paid. I am getting free bees, free education and the satisfaction of helping someone. Now - if I did cutouts for a living and I needed to rely on it as a source of income to pay the bills, yes I may charge. And once I get some experience under my belt, yes I may charge - maybe.

But it's gonna be fun!!!


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## fieldsofnaturalhoney

fieldsofnaturalhoney said:


> Keeping cutout honey edible for human consumption is another can of worms,...


Did I write worms?, I so meant to type bees
cjfoster, don't count the bees as "free" until they make their first winter. With your free education will come the realization of how much work and skill is involved, and you just can't do them all for free. Not to mention, I have went behind many beeks "free jobs", were they abandoned the job, couldn't/didn't get all of the comb/bees, or couldn't identify where in the structure the colony was located after tearing apart needless exterior walls. Good Luck and keep us posted, I trust you will get all the education & satisfaction after just this one


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## cjfoster72

The cutout was a success - mostly

I got all the bees and comb removed. Rubber-banded 8 frames of brood and 2 frames of honey/pollen....and got stung zero times! I was amazed at how docile the bees were. This was all a success.

The failure - most of the bees were dead by the time I got home and tried to hive them. I used a shop vac with a 5 gallon bucket setup...I'm pretty sure the airflow was adjusted low enough....I think they may have over-heated as it was 95 degrees here yesterday.

I was exhausted myself due to temperature and being inside an abandoned house that was even hotter than the outside air. I do have a better appreciation for the amount of work that is involved and the reason people don't do these for free very often. If it wasn't so dang hot, it would have been more enjoyable....and I feel awful for killing most of the bees. I need to figure out how to keep them cooler...or perhaps just do the cutout on a cooler day.

So no free bees for me...but it was a great learning experience and I helped somebody out. I will definitely try to learn more and do it again!

Thanks for all the comments and advice.


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## fieldsofnaturalhoney

Note post #8 , also if something is not done to the house, it most likely will have another colony by the Spring.
Out of curiosity did you try to vacuum all of the bees before removing the comb?


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## cjfoster72

The buckets had screen windows in them to help ventilate. I scraped all comb and wiped wall cavity out with a towel and plugged hive entrance. I vacuumed some before removing comb, some during and some after completing comb removal. Why do you ask?


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## larryh

Not seeing how you can call it a success..at all. Unless you're an exterminator.


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## cjfoster72

Larryh-
I helped some people and I learned a lot!

I get tons of great advice and help in these forums...but there's always that bitter guy that insists on being negative.

Thanks for the encouragement larryh. You're a true inspiration...


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## larryh

Yep, you got tons of great advice. And ignored all of it. 

People warned you about cooking the bees, and it was HOT enough to make you uncomfortable, but you somehow thought it would be fine to keep a colony of bees piled deep in a bucket for what, 6-8 hours??

You expect an Atta Boy for THAT!? Oh, please...


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## cjfoster72

I tried venting the buckets by putting screened windows in the sides. Some things you don't know til you try.

You forget your happy pills today Larry?


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## fieldsofnaturalhoney

cjfoster72 said:


> The buckets had screen windows in them to help ventilate. I scraped all comb and wiped wall cavity out with a towel and plugged hive entrance. I vacuumed some before removing comb, some during and some after completing comb removal. Why do you ask?


In my experience, I don't like to vacuum until most or all of the comb has been removed. Some of my reasons,, overheating, less motion sickness and deaths (from repeatedly turning vacuum on/off, especially if one uses smoke and the bees have gorged themselves in honey), easier to find the queen, no bees running & hiding in the crevices, overfilling the cage/bucket with bees, etc. I think more beeks who want to attempt a cutout for the first time or by themselves should FIRST go with someone who has done them before and knows what they are doing (for Free/unpaid of course):lpf: I believe this would totally give beeks a perspective of what it entails & what it takes to relocate the bees and have them fly another day.


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