# Hanging swarm trap, or stationary? What's your experience?



## Michael Bush

I have trouble with full sized adult trees snapping off at the trunks. I'm definitely going to attach it solidly to the tree. If I were the bees I wouldn't be thrilled about getting tossed around by the wind...


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## odfrank

Why go to the extra work of hanging them when they work fine just placed on a solid surface?


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## Charlie B

All you really need to do is set them near a newbee's apiary and when their crowded hives swarm, they'll settle in your hive trap. You get a marked queen to boot!!! :thumbsup:


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## Intheswamp

Charlie B said:


> All you really need to do is set them near a newbee's apiary and when their crowded hives swarm, they'll settle in your hive trap. You get a marked queen to boot!!! :thumbsup:


Thanks a lot for the "marked queen" remark...now I gotta get a rag and clean this coffee off of this newbee's monitor... inch:


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## delber

I like this one. . . As a newbee I also found a statement that I really liked. I don't remember who said it but it's great and what I've been seeking to do!!

"Knowledge is not better than experience and wisdom, but is a whole lot better than ignorance.
As a novice I study, read and learn. The experience will come."

I put up 6 swarm traps (5 frame nuc boxes) this year and didn't get anything. I'd like to learn what others have had success with also. I roped them to the tree about 6-7 feet up. The reason I didn't just put them on the ground is the research that I did stated that 12' - 17' is best however I'm not about to cary a ladder into the woods to get it up and down and / or to check it. When I roped it there wasn't much room for movement so I don't think they were knocking around, but I'm up for trying a different way.


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## Charlie B

delber said:


> I put up 6 swarm traps (5 frame nuc boxes) this year and didn't get anything. I'd like to learn what others have had success with also. I roped them to the tree about 6-7 feet up. The reason I didn't just put them on the ground is the research that I did stated that 12' - 17' is best however I'm not about to cary a ladder into the woods to get it up and down and / or to check it. When I roped it there wasn't much room for movement so I don't think they were knocking around, but I'm up for trying a different way.


I did the same thing initially. I tried setting them in trees inside Golden Gate Park, nothing. (I kept that up until I found out you could be arrested ). I then just placed them on my hive stand because I didn't know what else to do with them. (I use old commercial 8 frames boxes with two frames of drawn comb and a lemon grass oil soaked cloth inside). 

After about a week on the hive stand, they started coming. 6 swarms between May and June in San Francisco and another 5 on my hive stand in Saratoga. Once the swarms were inside, all I did was carefully place the rest of the drawn frames in the trap with one frame of brood in the center to get them to stay. I feed them sugar syrup for a week and then placed the frames in a new hive box and started all over again. 

I don't know what it is but there's something about a lure placed near established hives that swarms can't resist. :scratch:


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## Charlie B

Intheswamp said:


> Thanks a lot for the "marked queen" remark...now I gotta get a rag and clean this coffee off of this newbee's monitor... inch:


Sorry...I learned how to do that from Odfrank!


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## odfrank

I have yet to catch a marked queen. But the strains of bees this year have been lovely. I think most shipped queens get superseded promptly, and their offspring just keep getting better and better.


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## Charlie B

odfrank said:


> I have yet to catch a marked queen. But the strains of bees this year have been lovely. I think most shipped queens get superseded promptly, and their offspring just keep getting better and better.


I noticed that too. Superseding queens are strong and lay like crazy. I think packaged queens are breed for quick build up for commercial purposes which can also cause them to swarm quickly on unsuspecting newbee's.  

And yes, I've had hives swarm on me too. BTW Odfrank, can I have my bees back?


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## odfrank

Charlie B said:


> BTW Odfrank, can I have my bees back?


I did not catch any baits in San Francisco or Monte Sereno, so I doubt I owe you anything, and I of course would not give them back anyways. Free bees are a freebee, finders keepers losers weepers. 

My SF bait site is 26th Ave. between Lawton and Moraga. Is that within range of you? My host is mad because I have failed there two years in a row (concrete jungle). I will double my efforts next year. Mark your queens in pink and I will let you know if I get them.


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## Charlie B

odfrank said:


> My SF bait site is 26th Ave. between Lawton and Moraga. Is that within range of you?


Nice try buddy! I'm not telling you:no:. You'll surround my apiary with 50 hive traps


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## kevinva

Now I'm really curious

I've got a friend I'm mentoring and he's learning the hard way. He doesn't come every weekend and work the bee's to make sure she has room and to prevent swarming. He had 3 out of 4 hives swarm and all of them very late in the season so I doubt they will make it through winter.

I caught one swarm but the other two went 40' up in some oak trees.

If I want to prevent this next year, are you saying I can just buy some of those swarm traps with the scent and they will move right into those traps? I've always wondered if that actually works or if they are just a gimick.


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## Intheswamp

kevina, from what I've *read* (no practical experience here!) you probably already have some good swarm traps...extra supers or brood boxes. Simply set them up with a couple of old frames of comb surrounded by some empty frames, put a few drops of lemon grass essential oil or regular pheromone lure inside the box, put a top cover and bottom board on, set it in a shady area a hundred feet or so from the hives...and wait. The bees will check it out and there is a good chance of a swarm moving in. It will not prompt your colonies to swarm, but if they do swarm there's a nice extended stay hotel close by for them. 

Best wishes,
Ed


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## odfrank

Intheswamp said:


> set it in a shady area a hundred feet or so from the hives.)Ed


Or set them up on your empty stands and you might catch a swarm right there that you don't even have to move.

Like Ed says, just use everyday bee equipment for traps, and always with a full complement frames/combs.


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## Intheswamp

...sure wish I had some comb.......<sigh> NEXT YEAR!!!!!!


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## Charlie B

kevinva said:


> Now I'm really curious
> 
> If I want to prevent this next year, are you saying I can just buy some of those swarm traps with the scent and they will move right into those traps? I've always wondered if that actually works or if they are just a gimick.


I don't think that's the best strategy for swarm management. I had a hive swarm early in June when there were two swarm traps in my yard. They clustered on a tree across the street. I've learned since then you have to give them room and at the first sign of swarm cells, split the hive to induce a fake swarm. Divy up the hive equally taking the queen, BUT NO SWARM CELLS and place the divide in a new hive. Leave the original hive where it's at leaving all the swarm cells for them to make a new queen.


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## delber

odfrank said:


> Or set them up on your empty stands and you might catch a swarm right there that you don't even have to move.
> 
> Like Ed says, just use everyday bee equipment for traps, and always with a full complement frames/combs.


Be careful about using comb. :lookout: You'll also invite hive beetles / or wax moths.


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## Intheswamp

Gotcha on the beetles/moth issues. I'd really like some, though, for the scent appeal. I'm thinking that what I'll do when I get in the field with the traps is to find some rotted tree limb (hopefully moist, but it's dry lately) and rub on the inside of my new plywood swarm traps. Hopefully that will help give maybe a little of the hollow tree atmosphere to the bees....let the lemongrass oil draw them in and mixed with the rotted wood aroma lull them into a sense of "home sweet home". 

I'm afraid with the new plywood and glues that I've a mountain to overcome "scentwise" with the bees. But, if I don't throw a line in the water I know I ain't gonna catch fish!!! ...or in this case, honey bees. 

Ed


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## delber

I understand wanting the smell appeal. If you have any old equipment that will work the best. Also if you research "queen juice" on Michael Bush's web site that would be good also.


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## Intheswamp

delber, I'm starting from scratch. I may bump up my mentor and see if I can't bum a little comb off of him...simply using it to rub on the frames and around the entrance seems like it would be good. His hives are clean ones so I'm not worried about disease...shucks, I'm getting two hives from him for the new year. Might be time for a visit. 

Queen juice... It'll be a while before I can start brewing some of that. I had a flash that maybe some of the queens in the different queen cells that are built from time to time might be used to sweeten the juice but I don't think the pheromone is there until after the virgin queens are mated. Once I get established one thing I'll do is have a small jar of alcohol ready!

Ed


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## odfrank

I have little problems with wax moth on bait hive combs. The moths move in later in summer after the swarming season. SHB are just becoming a problem here, will have to see how that pans out.


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## Gypsi

Charlie B said:


> All you really need to do is set them near a newbee's apiary and when their crowded hives swarm, they'll settle in your hive trap. You get a marked queen to boot!!! :thumbsup:


Whoever's bees I'm feeding got mine in May, LOL.


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## Beeboy01

I was pulling some older frames out of my hives and had them sitting in an open box in my bee yard to get robbed out. I came back about an hour later and a medium sized swarm had moved in. I tossed a top and bottom board on the box and ended up with a nice little hive. No marked queen though.

There is a small piece of comb about the size of a hand built out on a branch above my bee yard. I have seen two small swarms settle on the comb for 3-4 days then take off. The swarm I caught was on that piece of comb for about 2 days before they moved into the box. I'm going to try a nuc box with some foundation up on the shop's roof as close to the branch as I can get it for next year. Hate to loose the bees but am running out of room in the bee yard.


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## Charlie B

Well, it happened again today. My two hive traps were siting on the hive stand and while I was refilling syrup feeders, here they come. A huge swarm landed on the rear outside wall of one of my hive traps. They were trying to get in through the screened vent hole and couldn't figure out how to go around the front. 

I picked up the trap and dumped them into the hive trap next to it. They seemed fine with that at first but then the queen came flying out and went into the original hive trap. They all followed and about an hour later, they were all inside. I guess they had their little hearts set on the first trap. This couldn't come at a better time because one of my hives in queenless so I'll do a newspaper combine in a few weeks once I know the queen is laying.


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## taydeko

So it seems one could just put traps on the ground near other hives? Should I be finding other places, trees, buildings, etc where I can deploy a trap? It sounds like the traps can be close together too, no minimum spacing? I have no shade trees in my yard to put traps under. Is this a problem? Does anyone have tips on how to find suitable locations for traps in an urban setting? There are lots of trees, of course along the river but they are all pretty much in a park, where removing wildlife is prohibited. Should I ask other local beekeepers if I can put traps in their yards?

Ted


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## LetMBee

Ask people you work with for spots. I have gotten a buch that way. Set traps out in several locations. I always hold 1 or 2 back so that when you take an occupied trap down you can replace it. When certain weather patterns occur you will pick up swarms fast.


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## Charlie B

I wouldn't ask local beekeepers to put traps in their yard but anywhere close is good.  I've had the most success on or near my own hive stands. You do have to watch local ordinances pertaining to parks. Some ignore them and set traps covertly but you run the risk of getting caught. The no shade issue wasn't a problem for me on a roof top but then I live in a relatively cool area.


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## odfrank

Charlie B said:


> I wouldn't ask local beekeepers to put traps in their yard but anywhere close is good.


Yes, I don't think you'll make a lot of friends that way
I will trade the address of Charlie's apiary for a good taco lunch.


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## Gypsi

Great thread - glad OD bumped it up!


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## Charlie B

I think I'm surrounded already by his swarm traps. I see them in my sleep with those little round metal wheel entrance things.


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## Specialkayme

I once put an old hive body on the ground and put a inner cover over it. I wasn't using the equipment at the moment, and let it chill on the ground for a week or two till I needed it (I was lazy). A swarm moved into the box, right in the center hole of the inner cover.

A week later, when I needed the box, I lifted the inner cover to find a new hive, with fresh wax (although just a bit) attached to the inner cover. A pleasant surprise.

From now on I'm just going to keep a 5 frame deep and a 10 frame deep chilling in the area, as a swarm trap with a lure. I'll let them choose between the 5 and the 10 frame deep.

I was planning on using Russell's swarm lure along with a few drops of lemongrass oil. I've seen bees go crazy over Russell's pheromones, so I figured its worth a shot.


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## Charlie B

Specialkayme said:


> I once put an old hive body on the ground and put a inner cover over it. I wasn't using the equipment at the moment, and let it chill on the ground for a week or two till I needed it (I was lazy). A swarm moved into the box, right in the center hole of the inner cover.


I hear stories like that all the time. I know a beekeeper who captures swarms for a living and got a call one day to do a cut out. He went to grab some empty supers from his yard to take with him and a swarm had already moved in. No comb, no LGO no nothing. Just an empty super.


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## Charlie B

Specialkayme said:


> I once put an old hive body on the ground and put a inner cover over it. I wasn't using the equipment at the moment, and let it chill on the ground for a week or two till I needed it (I was lazy). A swarm moved into the box, right in the center hole of the inner cover.


I hear stories like that all the time. I know a beekeeper who captures swarms for a living and got a call one day to do a cut out. He went to grab some empty supers from his yard to take with him and a swarm had already moved in. No comb, no LGO no nothing. Just an empty super.


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## Michael Bush

I stacked some boxes with frames up with a lid flat on top where there was no entrance, but no bottom as I didn't happen to have one at the time. When I came back it was full (five medium boxes) of bees and the only entrance they had was the open bottom. Of course they also often move into an empty hive that is set up normally... the smell of a hive is hard for them to resist.


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## wadehump

Had a dead out 2 years ago setting on a block waiting to do a split had a swarm move in as of today they are still alive.


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