# Rose Hive Method



## kateowp (Aug 11, 2014)

Has anyone here tried the Rose Hive method? If so, did it work well for your bees?


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## dkofoed (Feb 25, 2014)

That method gets mentioned on the forums now and then. In reality, it's no different really than running hives with all mediums (for example) with no queen excluders, and the downside is all the materials are completely non-standard ... meaning it's difficult to mix and match components with standard equipment you can typically purchase.


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## kateowp (Aug 11, 2014)

Have you tried it? Im less interested in the equipment and more interested in the method. I'm curious about how well adding boxes in the middle of the brood in the spring (until solstice) works- kinda makes sense to give the brood room without them needing to move stores, but it is contrary to the don't separate the brood nest idea that also makes sense.


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## texanbelchers (Aug 4, 2014)

Those were my thoughts when I watched the videos. There is so much contradicting information in the ether. I'll continue to watch and learn.


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

texanbelchers said:


> Those were my thoughts when I watched the videos. There is so much contradicting information in the ether. I'll continue to watch and learn.


What videos ? Got a link?


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## kenargo (May 13, 2014)

If you search YouTube you will find a dozen or more videos covering varying practices.


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

texanbelchers said:


> Those were my thoughts when I watched the videos. There is so much contradicting information in the ether. I'll continue to watch and learn.


Found em thanks


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## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)

I find it the poorest beekeeping method I ever came upon to. Hyped on the internet for the bad of the bees. For the sake of the bees: simply forget about it.

Bernhard


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## kateowp (Aug 11, 2014)

Bernhard, did you actually use the method? If so, what happened?


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## franktrujillo (Jan 22, 2009)

well it interesting i don't see any problems with that method when i want to add more space i just checker board the brood nest with empty frames add a box then checker board the five frames with empty frames since i don't use any foundation or starter strips it works better for me to do it this way also i don't use queen excluder's it's called unlimited brood nest


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## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)

Whew, I almost forgot the Checkerboarding, the other cruel beekeeping method. 

You certainly disturb the bees by ripping the broodnest apart with the Rose hive method. This weakens the hive and thus the limited swarming. Do not split the broodnest, do not shuffle combs around in the broodnest if you want healthy bees. Dividing the broodnest with empty boxes is just plain cruel. If you want to weaken your hive - so they don't swarm - you could remove the lid and let it rain into the hive. You can kick the hive over, too, this weakens the colony as well. Or use sulphur. Sorry. I just can't stand it anymore, this they call even "natural". What the heck is natural about inserting an empty hive body between the broodnest? 

Unlimited broodnest...increasing the broodnest size...this is the most anti-bee-wise concept I know of. The broodnest does not need unlimited space, because the broodnest is formed by the queen's ability to lay eggs and the queen can't lay eggs unlimited. By providing too much space you stretch the broodnest all over the hive, the broodnest is loosing warmth this way and this is the very basis for diseases of all sorts: cold broodnests. You can do this in warmer countries and deserts, yes. But not in temperate climates. Also stretched broodnests stretches the nurse bees all over the hive, means less brood care per comb.

You don't get more bees with an unlimited broodnest, neither. I made trials and shook down all bees from hives with limited and unlimited hives after wintering them and the shook swarms were all the same weight. The only thing that happens is, that the bees spread over more combs, which does appear to be more bees but this is just an illusion. And if you really look into the matter, you will find that a broodnest doesn't grow in Spring after the first initial increase, so for a long time right into the summer there is no need to "increase the broodnest" or to increase the number of frames in the broodnest. The opposite, you better increase the honey supers instead. Of course you can add more and more space in the broodnest, but all you get from doing so, is more and more honey within the broodnest, limiting the available cells for the queen. So instead of increasing the broodnest, you end up decrasing the broodnest and splittering the brood cells all over the hive. This is no concept, this is no method.

The Rose hive "method" (I wouldn't call it a method because it does not methodically work with bees, it simply wild stacking of boxes) also uses a lot of ressources. The additional boxes you use could be better used for honey supers and thus increased honey production. Or you make more hives of the boxes saved.

I experimented a lot with all sorts of methods and hives, unlimited broodnest, checkerboarding (I in fact brought the matter to Germany together with a friend of mine...), small cells, housel positioning and so on. It all turned out to be beekeeping lore and wrong. Save your money, save your time, save the bees the cruelity.

Start looking into the bee hives instead and note what really happens. Experimenting, OK, fine. Do it. But on a small scale. Do not invest a lot into all these internet myths and beekeeping lore that you find mostly distributed by beekeeping beginners who simply copy&paste this stuff.

The future of beekeeping will not be the Russian Lazutin hive, checkerboarded with Rose hive boxes, top entrances (not the same as top ventilation), small cells in an unlimited broodnest. Or so.


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## BernhardHeuvel (Mar 13, 2013)

Most of the "methods" and "new hives" have already be invented in the past two hundred years or so. Search through this archive: http://www.goldenbreezebeesupply.com/web_beekeeping/ where you find dozens of patents of all sorts of "cool ideas". All this was sorted out by time and what we find today in beekeeping is what is left after it all have been boiled down to what actually works well. :thumbsup:


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## franktrujillo (Jan 22, 2009)

i don't know what you do for foundation less frames to get them to draw them out straight but i have to pull the frames out and place between drawn frames.since i use no starter strips and use no plastics,no treatments of any kind,don't feed.so far in 8 years and going into my 9 th winter it doesn't seem to have any effect on them i keep them in double deeps so each new hive will get checker boarded once.also a far as swarming all my hives swarm every year which i encourage them to do if they want.if i catch them great and if i don't catch them great and i never touch there deep boxes after they filled them add my suppers and that's my honey they keep the rest only extract once a year as well.wintered over 11 hives lost 2 now i have 23. GOD gave me the increase so no complaints here.


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## mpgreer (Feb 25, 2014)

i tried it with 8-frame medium boxes this spring and feel like it failed. it might work better on a large, well-established hive instead of a small, developing one. the idea behind the rose hive method is to expand the brood area to motivate the bees to infill the space and increase quickly. he's such a charming irish dude. and i still like his books. but since then, i've come to believe that the brood nest is sacred, not to be broken apart. i ended up with a gerrymander-shaped brood nest. in my climate and variations in weather, a tight ball would have been more productive.


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