# I suck as a beekeeper



## Rairdog (Jun 21, 2014)

I really don't do much for the new TB hive. They made it through the winter with a small soft ball sized cluster. I did not even start them until July. Now they seem to dive bomb and die as fast as they reproduce. I want them to fend for themselves and they seem to be expanding. They re-queened and got darker. They are still mellow and my colony is totally different. I am stuck between trying to figure out how to do a sugar roll or just letting them figure out how to be self supporting. Is this wrong? Am I wrong thinking these girls will become self sufficient without my input?


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## Stlnifr (Sep 12, 2010)

Can't answer none of those questions but I put a swarm in a top bar hive and plan to let them become survivor bees. They will be totally on there own. This year I am not even going to rob them of any honey. I guess I will sit around and see what happens. Bees seem friendly enough, they check me out but do not bother me.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

If you leave them to "figure out how to be self supporting", they may live, they may die.

You cannot do a lot of selective breeding with one hive.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Actually I should follow that up with a little more info. Selectiing for survival means you let the weak hives die and breed from the survivors. With one hive, if the hive dies that is a 100% loss of all your bees. So selecting for survival is not possible.

From an ethical point of view, whether the persons one hive dies, is not going to positively impact the rest of the bees in the US, it's more just a loss for the owner. So me, I recommend for people with one hive that they check things such as mites, and if the hive needs help, give it to them.

Which brings up the other problem, people with one hive are also the people most likely to be least experienced, and may simply not know enough to detect problems or effectively intervene if they find one. And as such tend to not be as successful if they do intervene. But from a moral / ethical standpoint, a person with one hive should not feel bad at all if they intervene / treat /, or whatever. It is not for someone else, to tell the owner of just one hive, to sacrifice that hive, for dubious supposed benefit to the rest of the country that does not really exist.


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## Rusty Hills Farm (Mar 24, 2010)

I kept bees back in the days before we knew how to handle mites and saw thousands of hives die because they had no ability to fight back. So much for becoming "self-supporting". Treat for mites--either genetically (VSH or proven survivor traits) or through intervention (MAQS, OA, etc)--or watch your bees die. It's as simple as that.

JMO

Rusty


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## cgybees (Apr 20, 2015)

Oldtimer's comments are exactly on point.


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## dudelt (Mar 18, 2013)

I am a lazy beekeeper. I am not trying to corner the market on local honey or sell queens, packages, or nucs. I enjoy watching the bees and collecting a bit of honey each year. I have never done a sugar roll or tested for mites. I did use a screened bottom board (on the Lang hives only) and monitored mite fall for a couple of years . I don't even do that any more. I do know that come August, there will be an army of mites taking over the hive and have learned that without treatment (in my area), all the hives will die. So I treat in Auqust. I treat again in December when broodless. Once I learned the pattern to the year in beekeeping for my locality, it became much easier. Once you know what MUST be done, the rest falls into place and gets easier. When I look in the hives every few weeks I do look for problems such as disease or cross combing but I don't look in the hives all that often. My laziness in beekeeping is part of the reason I love top bar hives. There is no adding supers, no storage and no tearing the hive apart to inspect.


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## brettj777 (Feb 27, 2013)

+1 for dudelt


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## Rairdog (Jun 21, 2014)

Thanks for the replies. I guess the title should have been, "I want to be and lazy beek". I have researched and my treat in August/Sept with some sort of Oxalic diy vaporizer. 

The hive is back up to where they were last year and building fresh comb. Did and inspection today and Missy took a bunch of pics.




Capped brood. Some seem to be bulging out more than usual on some bars.



Honey?


Drone cell? I thought these were supercedure cells.




There was a piece of fallen comb. I hung it with small hair clips and wire.


There are about 3 bars that have small double combs. I am pretty sure the queen ran and hid in here. The bars come out easily and don't seem to be an issue so I didn't fix them.


I kept seeing them carrying pieces of white material. DUH! I left a paper plate in the bottom for dry sugar.



The first bar at entrance was all nectar so I moved it to the back. 

I also added a 3/8 spacer at the front to give them some bee space to get in and out.

Found one SHB but did not see any larvae or any other signs.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

That one frame is all drone brood. Not honey, the rest looks like very nice worker brood.


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## fillpot (May 9, 2015)

I have a new swarm hive that has built 2 frames of drone comb. I checked 15-20 cells and did not see any varoa, but I am considering removing drone comb as an ipm against mites. Should I remove this comb or do I let them raise this first batch of drones since I did not see any mites?


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Haven't seen the whole hive but based on what is shown in the pics, I'm wondering if your problems in the first post were caused by starvation.

The pics show no old stored honey at all, like the hive has been right on the brink at some recent time. There is new unsealed nectar being stored looks like they are working a flow now, which may be why they are recovering.


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## Rairdog (Jun 21, 2014)

JRG13 said:


> That one frame is all drone brood. Not honey, the rest looks like very nice worker brood.


That was my initial thought but is seemed like way too much drone brood for one bar.



Oldtimer said:


> Haven't seen the whole hive but based on what is shown in the pics, I'm wondering if your problems in the first post were caused by starvation.
> 
> The pics show no old stored honey at all, like the hive has been right on the brink at some recent time. There is new unsealed nectar being stored looks like they are working a flow now, which may be why they are recovering.


I don't think they put up any honey last year since I started them so late(July 10th). They were fed sugar water until it got too cold. I gave them dry sugar in late winter and a couple quarts of sugar water this spring until I saw pollen coming in. A couple bars felt very heavy compared to the rest today so I think there are at least 3 bars of nectar. I just want to see new worker brood and know they have a chance of making it.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Rairdog said:


> That was my initial thought but is seemed like way too much drone brood for one bar.


That's fairly typical in a foundationless hive, once the bees get to a certain stage they decide they can afford to build a comb of drone. 

That they have now layed it up with drone brood indicates the bees are now feeling pretty good about life and have enough spare resources to "waste" on making some drones. Your next issue down the track will likely be a swarming attempt.


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## Rairdog (Jun 21, 2014)

Oldtimer said:


> That's fairly typical in a foundationless hive, once the bees get to a certain stage they decide they can afford to build a comb of drone.
> 
> That they have now layed it up with drone brood indicates the bees are now feeling pretty good about life and have enough spare resources to "waste" on making some drones. Your next issue down the track will likely be a swarming attempt.



When I looked into the window I thought the larger cap on the edge was a swarm cell. From reading, it seems too small and is a drone cap. I moved the follower board back and gave them 5 or so empty bars. I plan on building another hive and trying to split when the hive is 3/4 full.

One video shows putting the queen in the new hive along with bees, brood and honey. It didn't mention leaving a swarm/supercedure cell in the old hive or adding a queen. Will they make a new queen or do you wait until there is a queen cell?

Thanks for your help!


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## Rairdog (Jun 21, 2014)

fillpot said:


> I have a new swarm hive that has built 2 frames of drone comb. I checked 15-20 cells and did not see any varoa, but I am considering removing drone comb as an ipm against mites. Should I remove this comb or do I let them raise this first batch of drones since I did not see any mites?


I finally figure out what you are asking. I watched a video of the guy opening up or cutting out drone cells to slow the mites followed by a sugar shake. IDK the answer but it does make sense.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Rairdog said:


> One video shows putting the queen in the new hive along with bees, brood and honey. It didn't mention leaving a swarm/supercedure cell in the old hive or adding a queen. Will they make a new queen or do you wait until there is a queen cell?


Both can work. It's best to move the existing queen to the new hive, because if she stays at the old hive so many bees in the queenless one will abandon it and go back to the original hive the new split can be too depleted to be viable.

If you do not leave a swarm cell in the queenless one the bees will make a queen cell long as you leave them some young enough larvae to use. But a swarm cell is better. BUT, waiting for the bees to build swarm cells to use is risky, they only have the cells for a little over a week till they swarm, so it can be very easy for them to catch you unawares, you don't really want to have to be going through the hive every few days to check.


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## fieldsofnaturalhoney (Feb 29, 2012)

Rusty Hills Farm said:


> Treat for mites--either genetically (VSH or proven survivor traits) or through intervention (MAQS, OA, etc)--or watch your bees die. It's as simple as that.
> JMO Rusty


I don't find this to be true, or to be that simple.
Rairdog, that's a nice laying pattern she has going. It could be wrong, if you plan no management, & hope "everything" will take care of itself, &/or it's your only hive


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## Rairdog (Jun 21, 2014)

Oldtimer said:


> Both can work. It's best to move the existing queen to the new hive, because if she stays at the old hive so many bees in the queenless one will abandon it and go back to the original hive the new split can be too depleted to be viable.
> 
> If you do not leave a swarm cell in the queenless one the bees will make a queen cell long as you leave them some young enough larvae to use. But a swarm cell is better. BUT, waiting for the bees to build swarm cells to use is risky, they only have the cells for a little over a week till they swarm, so it can be very easy for them to catch you unawares, you don't really want to have to be going through the hive every few days to check.


That's what I was thinking. They are just building new comb the last couple weeks and have 50% of the hive yet to fill. Do they swarm because the hive is getting full or because they know it is a strong hive and it's time to start another?



fieldsofnaturalhoney said:


> I don't find this to be true, or to be that simple.
> Rairdog, that's a nice laying pattern she has going. It could be wrong, if you plan no management, & hope "everything" will take care of itself, &/or it's your only hive


Thanks. It is my first hive and only hive. It has been harder than I thought trying to be self-taught through the net. I just need to figure out what problems to look for and what the good signs are. I will treat if necessary.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Rairdog said:


> Do they swarm because the hive is getting full or because they know it is a strong hive and it's time to start another?


They swarm because like all living things they have a natural desire to reproduce the species. In a TBH, they may feel ready to swarm before the whole hive is filled. Later in the season, when it's not so much a good time for them to swarm, they may fill the whole hive and still not swarm.


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## Rairdog (Jun 21, 2014)

So I was watching the bees hit the honeysuckle, salvia and other things I planted. I look to the neighbor lady's and see bee's. It is in her old garden and there is nothing left. I'm thinking, "why are there bees around her old dead rose bush". I look down and there is a swarm on the fence post. It could not have been in a worse spot. The weeds and gaps had them so I couldn't get them out. I built a new TBH in 30 min. from scrap I had on hand. I took some unused bars behind the follower board, a bar of nectar and brood from my other TBH. I had been working on the garden all day and never seen them come out. After about 10 scoops in a cardboard box over 3 hours I had them in the new hive. I got stung about 10 times. They were in the pockets of the old split rail fence and there was no access to get them out. I don't know if I got the queen and I thought for sure she would be in one of the pockets . After the first and second scoop there were bees sticking there butts out of the entrance and fanning. I read this is a good sign. The bees were kinda on the comb of nectar and brood but most were in clumps behind it. 

Here is a shot of the post.


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

Yep, thats usually a good sign. If you left the queen the bees left at the post would grow in numbers from my experience. If the post is free of bees, you got her, congratulations. Hope they stay put for you and your virgin gets well mated. Good Luck. G


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