# Alergic reaction?



## rand (Nov 14, 2009)

Hi all,

Im a beekeeper for 3 years and got stung from time to time (Maybe 2-4 stings per month).

Today i checked my 26 hives and in the middle of the work i got stung in my leg.
I didnt stop working of course but after 20 minutes i became little bit weak, my eyes was wet, i had runny nose, 
feeling also my throat like infected (dry and hard swallow) and my eyelashes got swelled :s

I was afraid that this is the start for an alergic reaction and drove home immediatly
because i forgot my Epipen injector there.

After 3 hours i still have these symptoms except of runny nose and wet eyes.
I will go to the Doc next week but would like to ask if anybody had a similar 
situation ?


Thanks,
Randi, Israel


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## Luterra (Sep 7, 2011)

Any time there are symptoms away from the location of the sting (like you describe), it is an allergic reaction. In my experience I had more of a full-body flush and itching than respiratory symptoms, but everyone's experience is a bit different.

Probably best to get tested for bee allergy and go through desensitization shots if you indeed allergic. Allergic reactions are unpredictable - one time you might have mild symptoms and the next time you could stop breathing. 

Mark


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## taydeko (Jan 3, 2012)

I have a confirmed allergy, but my symptoms always include respiratory problems, swelling of throat and lips, light headedness, dropping blood pressure, high heart beat, hives and itching all over. Not fun at all. Sounds like you are having a mild allergic reaction. I agree with Luterra, get tested and start desensitization. I am hoping to start my desensitization treatments in a few weeks.

Ted


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## Steves1967 (May 16, 2012)

That's a systemic reaction and should not be taken lightly. Carry your epi pen all the time and do look into desensitization. I started my desensitization series today.


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

I have an allergic reaction as well. Mine is more of the area swelling, turning red and hot. 
My doc advised me to drink a half of a bottle of benydryl. After the adverse effects (doped up) first dose, I cut that in half! lol
Works well for me now.


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## Gord (Feb 8, 2011)

Careful with the Epi pen.
Epi pens are for full blown anaphylaxis, primarily to keep your blood pressure up.
If you're not having a SEVERE reaction, it could be the wrong thing to use.
You could actually overspeed your heart.

Mr Beeman does what I do.
I always have a bottle of liquid Benadryl in my carryall, and at home, and at the cottage.
It is absorbed quickly, does the job, and is much cheaper.

Go see your doctor, and talk about the Epi pen, and the Benadryl.
Ask when you should use each; what the threshhold is for using the Epi pen.
Knowledge is power; you don't want to be dead wrong.


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## rand (Nov 14, 2009)

thanks alot for the care and the useful information. I am on my way to check if i am allergic and i pray that its just a mistake because i looove this hobby.
thanks again,
randi


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## taydeko (Jan 3, 2012)

Randi, being allergic doesn't mean you have to give it up. You have to be a lot more careful. I am still very active and plan to double my hive count next year if at all possible. I am looking forward to desensitization so I don't have to worry so much about the bees. 

Ted


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## throrope (Dec 18, 2008)

http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...-boy-got-stung-went-to-ER&p=796452#post796452


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## shmiusa (Oct 29, 2012)

I got stung 4 times so far. During the second time, I got instant headache and lasted a day. Usually, the area swells and during the second day it pains a lot with heavy swelling. Nearly on 3rd or 4th day, system gets back to normal. Are there benefits to bee sting? I get a feeling that I am headache free now, but not sure!


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

Well, I have almost no systemic or local reaction to bee stings. It has been this way as long as I can remember. I wish it were true for other things, too. I once had a severe anaphylactic response to penicillin, and recently developed an almost as severe reaction to the aflatoxin in roasted peanuts. I dearly love peanuts, but it looks like I will never be able to eat them again. My recent exposure to about a cup of dry roasted peanuts, caused many horrible symptoms, even shutting down my kidneys for almost two days. But if I ever develop an allergy to seafood, I'm probably going to die soon afterwards.


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## rand (Nov 14, 2009)

Hi all,

Well, i did the allergy tests and Unfortunately it is possitive
from the first test (the lowest concentration of venom).

The doctor clearly explain me that beekeeping is a big risk for
me and i should avoid getting closer to bees. Its weared that my millions 
girls became an enemy now 
I started the first desensitization treatment and realy think to sell
the hives and come back to bussines in two years - we can plan and god is 
Laughing ))

Randi, Israel


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## taydeko (Jan 3, 2012)

Don't give up! Just get a good suit. I still work my bees, I just have to be really careful.

Ted


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## Luterra (Sep 7, 2011)

It shouldn't take two years. If all goes well desensitization takes about three months to reach the full dose. At that point you can usually be stung with no allergic response, though it is important to keep an epi-pen on hand and avoid getting multiple stings (i.e. wear a good suit). IMHO working with bees while still highly allergic (like Ted) is a bit crazy, but folks do it...

I had an allergic reaction September 2011, started desensitization in October and reached full dose in early January. Started stinging myself weekly at that point to build up further resistance. At this point I've had about 50 stings this year with no hint of allergic response.

Mark


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## bbrowncods (Oct 10, 2012)

What are the shots? Is it possible to desensitize on your own?


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## rand (Nov 14, 2009)

I admit that i afraid to take even a small chance of systematic reaction but...
Here they are saying that i have to reach 2 doses to get to the maintenance treatment
which mean a shot per two month and not 1 week.

The doctor also said to me that after being treated in desensitization i will have
a 10% of chance to have an anaphylactic response compare to 60% now
when i am highly allergic. 
Taydeko, it's very encouraging to hear about coming back to work so fast after treatment
but what happened when you are getting stung more then one dose (time) while working,
it can be dangerous for you?

Thanks allot,
Randi, Israel


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## Luterra (Sep 7, 2011)

The shots are simply increasing doses of bee venom, starting very small. The regimen works by promoting production of non-allergic IgG antibodies rather than allergy-causing IgE antibodies.

My regimen was as follows (mcg = micrograms of venom):
#1 .002 mcg ~ 1/25000 of a sting
#2 .004 mcg ~ 1/12500 of a sting
#3 .02 mcg ~ 1/2500
#4 .04 mcg ~ 1/1250
#5 .1 mcg ~ 1/500
#6 .25 mcg ~ 1/200
#7 .5 mcg ~ 1/100 (1%) of a sting
#8 1 mcg ~ 2% of a sting
#9 2.5 mcg ~5% of a sting
#10 5 mcg ~10%
#11 10 mcg ~20%
#12 20 mcg ~40%
#13 40 mcg ~80% of a sting
#14 60 mcg ~1.2 stings
#15 80 mcg ~1.6 stings
#16 (full dose) 100 mcg ~2 stings

For allergic individuals, there is no home substitute for clinical desensitization as bee venom extracts are not available to the public. Non-allergic individuals may have success decreasing swelling/sting response and minimizing the likelihood of allergy development by keeping up a regimen of frequent (~weekly) stings. 

As for Ted (taydeko), he hasn't been desensitized yet - he just has a high risk tolerance and trust in his epi-pen 

And as for that 10% risk of anaphylaxis after treatment figure, that only applies to the first few stings. Once you have reached the maintenance dose and have been stung several times with no allergic response, the risk of allergic response to future stings (assuming one sting at a time and continuation of maintenance-dose injections) is much less than 10%.

Mark


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## bbrowncods (Oct 10, 2012)

Thanks Mark. About 10 years ago I had a severe anaphylaxis resonse to "something" that had me in the hospital for two days. We never identified what it was. Definately not a sting. The doc said that we may never know what it was that caused it, and that it may never happen again. He gave me an Epi-pen, but that is long expired and I threw it away.
To be safe I am thinking about going in and get tested. I guess the other option is to just get stung and see what happens.


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## taydeko (Jan 3, 2012)

As Luterra said, I haven't started desensitization yet. Me crazy? Probably. I have lots of confidence in my suit. I am getting a scratch test next week and hopefully will start desensitization soon after that. Thanks for the description of the shots, Luterra. I have never seen that before. I asked my doctor about "self maintenance" after the full strength of 2 stings is reached. I have read about someone who does that. The doctor said that he wouldn't trust it. How do you know you got an adequate dose to maintain the effect? I suspect that any sting you get helps, but the idea of the maintenance shots is to get a controlled dose to stimulate the immune system properly.

Ted


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## Luterra (Sep 7, 2011)

One of those "someones" (self-maintenance) is me. I have some scientific support (see the last paragraph of the linked article), but in general allergists don't like the idea of self-administered stings for maintenance therapy. If asked why, they will go on about unmanaged risk (not in a medical setting) and lack of precise dosage, but as there have not been any valid studies looking at self-maintenance they can't give any hard data to back up their statements. I personally favor self-maintenance for four reasons:

1. Real bee venom contains more compounds than the extracts used by allergists, due to evaporative loss of volatile components during venom collection. There are documented cases of people who have completed immunotherapy but continue to have allergic reactions when stung by actual bees; these folks are clearly allergic to a venom component that is lost during processing. I personally found that, in terms of my body's response, one real sting was the equivalent of about two of their "two-sting" injections. Thus I would rather be desensitized to real bee venom vs. the incomplete extract version. (This difference between extracts and real venom is also a good reason to get your first "sting challenge" in a medical setting, or at least to have your epi-pen ready.)

2. Weekly stings provide desensitization of local swelling responses in most people. When I started my weekly stings, I would swell for a couple of days. Now my swelling is much less and usually gone in under 12 hours. I find that the less stings affect quality of life, the more I can enjoy beekeeping without worrying about getting stung.

3. Weekly stings provide peace of mind for me. The natural response after experiencing an allergic reaction is to fear that it will happen again. After about 10 stings that worry abated, and now after 50 weekly stings with no hint of allergy I no longer consider myself allergic to bees. 

4. Allergy shots take time and money. I don't expect that I am getting exactly 50 micrograms from each bee, but I do leave the stinger in for five minutes or so to make sure I get whatever that bee has to offer, and I don't believe that precise dosage is all that important for immune stimulus except in the early phases of desensitization when too high a dose could trigger anaphylaxis.



To be fair, there is no reason a person couldn't self-administer weekly stings while continuing to receive maintenance-dose injections. I did that for about six months, until June this year. In addition to the monthly bill, I was annoyed by the allergist's unwillingness to consider the benefit of self-administered stings, the requirement to stay in the office for 30 minutes "just in case" I had an allergic response this time (cell phone Scrabble got a bit old), and the rule that they couldn't inject less than 48 hours after a sting (which I lied about a couple of times). I guess what bothered me the most was their perspective that they had diagnosed me with a chronic condition and that I would always be allergic to bees, whereas I considered myself cured once I had reached maintenance dose and tolerated ~20 stings with no allergic response.

I should add that my allergic response (whole-body hives, itching, racing pulse) came on slowly and was not judged to be life-threatening. I think if I had experienced a life-threatening reaction I would have been more likely to continue the maintenance injections for the recommended 3-5 years.

Finally, I recommend that all beekeepers experiencing allergy read this article, written by a beekeeper MD and compiling much of the available scientific research into a readable form:

http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/entomology/apiculture/pdfs/Marterre.2006b copy.pdf

Mark


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## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

Luterra,

What kind of protective equipment do you use? I wear just the jacket/veil combo and gloves. I have been stung around 15 times this year, once in the stomach, once in the forehead, once on the hand and 12 times on my ankles when I decided to tuck my pants into my socks.........won't do that again!

The ankles and the stomach had reaction of a mosquito bite and not much pain at all, the fore head had minor pain and some swelling but not enough to swell an eye shut or anything. Seems each time I get stung the reaction is lessening. Last year I got stung 12 times on the hands from one frame of bees and my left hand hurt but not much swelling, my right hand however swelled up so bad I couldn't close it, looked like I had a baseball glove on! 

Hope I never become allergic, but at the same time I don't try to get stung on purpose either!


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## Luterra (Sep 7, 2011)

I wear a bee suit/veil and gloves. The suit and veil are mismatched so don't zip together. Of my ~50 stings this year, ~35 have been intentional (grab a bee, hold it against my leg) and ~15 have been unintentional.

Of the unintentional stings, most were minor pricks through my gloves. One crawled up my pant leg last weekend. One crawled up my shirt sleeve while I was cutting wood nowhere near beehives. The worst one was on my Adam's apple, one that squeezed between my veil and suit collar.

Mark


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Joseph Clemens said:


> <snip>My recent exposure to about a cup of dry roasted peanuts, caused many horrible symptoms, even shutting down my kidneys for almost two days. But if I ever develop an allergy to seafood, I'm probably going to die soon afterwards.


I just want to make sure you know that you need to be careful about more things than peanuts...I'm pretty sure you've seen the little warnings in food products that they were processed where peanuts and other nuts were processed. Be on the lookout.

Seafood...there are seafood allergies and seafood poisoning where the reaction is much similar. The poisoning is from seafood that is not "just right" (maybe laid on the dock to long). Both can kill ya, but the allergy will kill ya every time.  My preacher's son had a reaction to seafood but wasn't sure whether the reaction was poisoning or allergy. After he had gotten over it and some time passed he decided he wanted some more seafood. He and his wife when and got a "to go" meal....and went and parked in the Emergency Room parking area and ate it....thankfully a drove home with no problems when they got through eating.

Watch that peanut allergy, that's as bad or worse than a seafood allergy...read labels!!!!
Best wishes,
Ed


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## solstice (Oct 18, 2012)

Joseph Clemens said:


> Well, I have almost no systemic or local reaction to bee stings. It has been this way as long as I can remember. I wish it were true for other things, too. I once had a severe anaphylactic response to penicillin, and recently developed an almost as severe reaction to the aflatoxin in roasted peanuts. I dearly love peanuts, but it looks like I will never be able to eat them again. My recent exposure to about a cup of dry roasted peanuts, caused many horrible symptoms, even shutting down my kidneys for almost two days. But if I ever develop an allergy to seafood, I'm probably going to die soon afterwards.


Sometimes those dry roasted peanuts have a lot more ingredients in them than just nuts---could you be reacting to something else, like MSG?


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## rand (Nov 14, 2009)

Hi all,
After many thoughts and the simple fact that i live 1 hour away from hospital
and there is no one to replace me treating the hives,
i decided to quit beekeeping for one or two seasons, till i will finish the
desensitization process and feel safe to risk myself.

Thanks allot for the help
Randi, Israel


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## Luterra (Sep 7, 2011)

That sounds like a sensible plan. Sorry you have to be without bees for a while!



rand said:


> Hi all,
> After many thoughts and the simple fact that i live 1 hour away from hospital
> and there is no one to replace me treating the hives,
> i decided to quit beekeeping for one or two seasons, till i will finish the
> ...


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## SwedeBee1970 (Oct 26, 2008)

These quick treatments helped bring quick relief: Always carry some liquid ammonia and some vinegar also. Place a drop of ammonia on the sting after removing the stinger if applies. This will neutralize the acid venom in the sting area. You'll have to attend to the stings immediately after the sting so the acid has limited travel. Vinegar has the same effect except it is only used on anything other than honey bee stings, Wasps, Hornets, Etc. 

Once I got stung in the back of the head and broke out in hives, which was a 3 hour trip to the emergency room and some drugs. It's all about the location of the sting. If it is near a blood vessel, then it spreads fast.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

I like the benadryl concept except I wouldn't make the car ride home....


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