# package install and feeding?



## FindlayBee (Aug 2, 2009)

This only works until your hive is full of comb in regards to feeding. It also only works if it is warm enough for the bees to move about freely.

I am using a entrance feeder inside the hive. I have a follower board that has a notch cut out in it to allow the entrance feeder to slide into it. The feeder is sitting in the unused part of the hive.

I also have one tbh with entrance feeder just inside the follower board. This one I have to watch as the bees will end up building comb on and around it if I do not pay attention. I plan to cut a notch for this feeder as well so that it is not sitting inside the active part of the hive, but rather in the unused space on the outside of the follower board.

If the weather permits, I will take some photos this weekend.


----------



## Merlinspop (Nov 4, 2010)

I built a feeder that is like a follower board, except it spans the width of 4 top bars. The two angled sides and bottom are wood and the the two 'end' sides are plexi. There's a slot at the top of one of the plexi sides that has some window screen leading down to the bottom and a hole on top for filling with syrup. This setup should allow me to open the hive behind the feeder where there are (hopefully) no bees and watch them marching down the screen to feed and also to fill the feeder without opening up the bee side of the hive. 

If that turns out to not work well, Plan B is for "Baggie". Fill a gallon zip lock baggie about 3/4 full, lay it on the bottom of the hive and make a few slices with a razor blade. Replace as needed.

Releasing the queen... That's touchy. Michael Bush and some others advocate a direct release to prevent them from building goobered up comb around a hanging queen cage. I *would* do that were it not for the fact that my package when it arrives on Sunday will have been together for less than 24 hours and it'll be my one and only hive this year. I still might direct release her anyway and just cross my fingers. The bees know pretty much immediately that the strange queen in the cage is the only game in town for them and they far prefer to have her than no queen at all. On the other hand, I may still hang her up, but with an extension so she's a good 5" or 6" down from the bottom of the bars and check back in 2 days to see if she's been released. If not, I'll release her, if so, hopefully she's been accepted and the comb on the two bars she was hanging between hadn't gotten that far down at that point and that major surgery isn't necessary.

Either way, good luck!

B


----------



## blist (Jun 15, 2010)

so I could just do the sugar sprinkle thing since this a brand new hive but then have to think about some other method once established, the sugar sprinkle sound much easier 

since I am running out of places to order my package I will probably order from kelley bees...I am in zone 5 so they don't insure them...but my point is that my bees will have been together a long time so I may not have to worry about the queen being with them for too short of a time

I would love to see pics of your feeders so I can think about what to do in the future


----------



## Merlinspop (Nov 4, 2010)

Blist - I'm brand new at this so take it with a grain of salt, but my understanding is that sprinkling granulated sugar is more of an emergency measure used when temps are too low for bees to take syrup. Now that it's warm, it's better to feed syrup. Feeding inside the hive is better than outside to prevent setting off robbing. A baggie feeder is dirt simple and you'll know how much they take pretty easily. With dry sugar, you won't know if they just carry it out with the debris.

I'll try to get up a picture of my feeder this evening sometime. I was reluctant because my carpentry skills are well below rudimentary so it's a fair bit ugly. I'll be able to report on whether it actually works after this weekend.


----------



## blist (Jun 15, 2010)

merlinspop: probably isn't fun trying to get that bag feeder out? or are you putting it behind a false back or something that has a space the bees can get around?


----------



## Merlinspop (Nov 4, 2010)

Again, I haven't done this personally. But at least a guy in my club who started TBHs last year fed with baggies. Baggie just goes on the bottom inside the 'active' side of the follower, if you use one. Quart size might be a better fit than gallon if yours is very narrow at the bottom. If you have no drawn comb, they'll be plenty of space down there at first, and really that's the main time to feed a package; while they're getting started. When the baggie is empty, there'll be some, but not a lot of, bees on the baggie, but most will be back up on the bars in a cluster, building comb, or out foraging.

My hive has end entrance holes and I'll start with about 15 bars in front of the follower/feeder. If I have to revert to baggies, I'll flip the feeder around so it's a follower and put the baggie down right next to it.


----------



## SteveBee (Jul 15, 2010)

I have a boardman feeder inside the hive. My follower board has a 1/2" gap between it and the hive floor and the bees crawl under the board to feed. On my new hives, I cut a slot in the end for the same feeder to fit in from outside the hive. I can refill it without opening the hive.


----------



## Merlinspop (Nov 4, 2010)

Hard to go wrong following this advice on Top Bar Hives. Here is his thoughts on packages and feeding. Keep in mind the discussion on packages and feeding is geared towards Langs.


----------



## Beethinking (Jun 2, 2008)

I use jar feeders on stands on the "active" side of the follower. I simply monitor comb production and move the feeder over as combs get close. I much prefer them to baggy feeders.

Cheers,
Matt


----------



## Merlinspop (Nov 4, 2010)

Matt - I guess I do have that option, too, come to think of it, if my follower feeder goes bad. Quick question... better to poke the holes in the lid from the outside in, or inside out?

Bruce


----------



## Beethinking (Jun 2, 2008)

Bruce,

I poke the holes from the outside in and they seem to work fine!

Best,
Matt


----------



## trentfysty (May 18, 2010)

As far as feeding goes, I have used all methods already talked about. The baggie works well if you have nothing else. It does require opening the hive to add a new one as well as to remove it depending on the entrance you have. I used a push pin to poke holes in the bag and that worked well. 

The jar feeders are a little easier but they take up more space as well. I have cut holes in my backer board and fed the entrance to an entrance feeder throught the hole to the occupied portion of the hive. It works well because you don't have to disturb the bees as much when refilling. 

I finally build purposed feeders for my top bars that can be refilled by just removing the top of the hive and then a cork to fill the feeder. I remove it once the colony has established itself.

As far as queen release, I have used both and don't really see an advantage of one over the other. I suppose it is better to do a cages release if the package hasn't been together long. Otherwise just do what you feel comfortable with. If they go crazy building comb around the queen cage, remove the comb. There shouldn't be much to remove if they did this. The bees usually have the queen out in a day or two, so check back often. If it's been two days and she hasn't been released then release her.


----------



## victor schrager (Jul 21, 2004)

Cacklewack - what do you stand your jars on?
Thanks,
Victor


----------



## blist (Jun 15, 2010)

Merlinspop said:


> Hard to go wrong following this advice on Top Bar Hives. Here is his thoughts on packages and feeding. Keep in mind the discussion on packages and feeding is geared towards Langs.


That is where I read about sprinkling sugar on the bottom.


----------



## Beethinking (Jun 2, 2008)

Victor,

I either place them on a couple pieces of wood just to elevate them off of the floor, or I place them in something like this: http://www.kelleybees.com/CMS/CMSPage.aspx?OrganizationId=3&pageName=productDetail&productId=21824

Those Kelley feeders fit perfectly in the bottom of our top bar hives so that there is just enough gap that bees can move under to feed.

Best,
Matt


----------



## Merlinspop (Nov 4, 2010)

Blist- pictures of my homemade feeder as promised. Don't make fun of my lousy carpentry...I'm trying to replicate a third world country guy who never used a saw before, or at least that's the look I achieved!









This is the "bee side" of the feeder. 









Here is the top with the hole used for filling. I'll need to cover it or stop it up somehow.


----------



## FindlayBee (Aug 2, 2009)

Here is a photo of the entrance feeder on the inside on the hive. This past week it looks like they have ignored the feeder. Prior to this they took about 1/2 a jar. The bees were going nuts with pollen and nectar today at the entrance.



















Some bees on the roof with pollen. I really wish I had remembered my good camera. Cell phones just don't cut it.



















The longer I watched, the more bees I saw. These photos were taken between 3:00 and 3:25PM April 9, 2011.


----------



## victor schrager (Jul 21, 2004)

Cacklewack - thanks- this looks perfect. When starting a package how many bars do you start with (plus of course the room needed for the feeder)? I have some bars with drawn comb from a hive that didn't make it through the winter - should I start them on all comb, or alternate with new bars?
Victor


----------



## Beethinking (Jun 2, 2008)

Victor,

I usually start with 8-10 bars depending on the number of bees I'm installing. If it's a 3lb package I usually do 10 bars. If I need to feed I would add enough space to accommodate the jars, etc. Personally, if reusing the comb, I'd probably just keep it all together without adding empties in between to begin with. 

Best,
Matt


----------



## victor schrager (Jul 21, 2004)

Thanks, sounds good.
Victor


----------

