# More on Juan



## odfrank

*The one and only Juan*

And of the millions of Juans in the world we are supposed to know who you are talking about?


----------



## mike haney

*juan*

Juan valdez sells queens? who knew! i thought it was just coffee


----------



## Keith Jarrett

Chef Isaac said:


> Out of 35 queens, 32 made it.


Gee Chef, that about 10% loss rate.


----------



## Chef Isaac

Juan is the gent that goes by tinocobee here at beesource. He was selling packages and queens. 

Keith: you can look at it whatever way you would like. Consider he was the only one to help us out in a jam.


----------



## Keith Jarrett

Chef......Juan,helping you out of a jam was grate ,as it helped both of you out.
But only a 90% take.


----------



## BjornBee

Keith Jarrett said:


> But only a 90% take.



Didn't you already say that, just in another way?

So how should I classify the comments thus far? Helpful? Informative? Entertaining? Educational? 

Geesh, how about just crap some more on someone? Whats next..."I got a secret way of doing it, but I won't tell?" 

Glad it worked out for you Chef.


----------



## Keith Jarrett

BjornBee said:


> Didn't you already say that, just in another way?
> 
> 
> Hey, BB your sharp!
> 
> >So how should I classify the comments thus far? Helpful? Informative? Entertaining? Educational?
> 
> hMMM, Educational, I would expect 97% take or better.
> 
> >Geesh, how about just crap some more on someone? Whats next..."I got a secret way of doing it, but I won't tell?"
> 
> there you go again, BB LOL. .


Well FSP.


----------



## iddee

Thanks, Bjorn.....Well said.

Chef, it's good to know someone appreciates the extra mile.


----------



## high rate of speed

Gee a 90% take with laying queens.7000 hives later I would have to auction off the farm.


----------



## Keith Jarrett

high rate of speed said:


> Gee a 90% take with laying queens.7000 hives later I would have to auction off the farm.


STOP... we have a winner!

Now that would a economic veiw point, hmm. Hey HRS, that's the same way I see it.

Maybe Bjorn & Iddea have never wrote out a check for twenty or thrity thousand dallors for Queens, maybe they have.

Bjorn's post is petty. My post to Chef was from a economic veiw point.


----------



## high rate of speed

It is what it is.Shoot with decent weather we can get a 90% take from cells.:cool


----------



## Dick Allen

> Thanks, Bjorn.....Well said.


yes, me too.

losing a queen or two is unfortunate, but it does happen. 2 queens lost out of 35 certainly does not mean that if he'd ordered twice that many he'd have lost 4 queens, nor does it mean he'd have lost 6 queens if he'd ordered 105 queens. generally, much more often than not, ALL queens are alive and well when they arrive, but occasionally one or two are lost. this is probably one of those situations. 

it's refreshing to hear some one offer a little praise on this forum instead of all the sniveling lately.


----------



## high rate of speed

A chance to win that breeder queen,doesnt look to bad.


----------



## iddee

>>>>Maybe Bjorn & Iddea have never wrote out a check for twenty or thrity thousand dallors for Queens, maybe they have.<<<<


No, I haven't.....Have you ever ordered queens at 2:00 pm on Friday and received them on Saturday morning? I doubt it. That is the object of the post, not the survival rate. When a supplier goes that far to accommodate you, you feel good about how he runs his business. A little rough handling on that one occasion may have been needed to get to UPS in time to ensure delivery. Knowing that, Isaac ordered 5 more than needed, to ensure he got the 30 he needed. He still had 2 that were expendable. 

Great supplier, smart customer.


----------



## high rate of speed

seems to me, it is the overall consumer report.


----------



## iddee

So we agree to disagree......That'll work. Now let's go have a cup of coffee.


----------



## Keith Jarrett

iddee;317867. That is the object of the post said:


> Iddee, I agree with you on the sevice side, I disagree with the survival rate being acceptable.
> 
> It is after all under the thread "Consumer Report".
> 
> It may be just looking at it from a hobby vs. commercial stand point.
> 
> Oh... I'll buy... Starbucks.


----------



## Barry

Keith Jarrett said:


> Well FSP.



*Freedom Socialist Party ?*


----------



## Keith Jarrett

Now that was funny.


----------



## high rate of speed

If they only new.Barry you get an A for effort.


----------



## Angi_H

Hey there I did not use profanity I put the first letter then used the $%&# signs that is not profanity you could figure it out of you wanted to but you did not have to edit out the entire thing. [edit profanity] What ever. I bought 2 packages of bees from Juan this year and they are going like gang buster. Over 2 weeks earlier then anyone else for pick up in March. They are pulling in necter and pollen like gang busters and the hive is busting at the seems. I have split them once and allowed them to make there own queen and those are doing well also. He has great bees and is a very nice person. His dad is also very nice and a good person. I dont know why you guys have to go around bashing the post. Dont blame the 3 loss on Juan blame it on UPS as they are known for being rough with anything you ship. Heck they even kill packages. And when sent via overnight express at 4pm which is the very very last time you can get them to the ups place you are cutting it very very close. So 3 loss is nothing when you consider UPS tract record. Just my 2c worth. But watch no one will take it with full force.

Angi


----------



## Chef Isaac

You know all, I AM THE CUSTOMER and I am happy with my experiance with Juan. He could have said no but he didnt. He stopped what he was doing and DROVE to get the queens. THEN drove to the UPS store, called me three minutes before 4 PM (cut off time for next day air). That is what I call AWESOME customer service. 

I lost three. Who cares. I do not blame Juan. Blame goes to UPS for how they handle it. 

I am very happy and even more happy to have been able to do business with Juan.


----------



## Chef Isaac

If three queens were a problem, I would have talked to Juan and he might have either sent me three more or not had me pay for them but to be honest, Juan did me a favor.


----------



## BjornBee

Chef,
Don't waste your time. I think most are understanding and your wasting your efforts for a few "non-FSP" type people. You paid Juan a compliment. If it could only be as good for everyone as some think it is in their heads, we would all be perfect.

Your FSP Chef. (Freakin Special Person) And if there is more meaning to FSP than that, I'll leave it to the thirteen year old mentality types to giggle like giddy school girls of their little secret sitting behind their computor screens.

Angi,
Your opening comment said it all. But thank you for explaining anyways. Your FSP!


----------



## ScadsOBees

Angi_H said:


> I bought 2 packages of bees from Juan this year and they are going like gang buster.
> Angi


Whats that? They are like gangs? Aggressive, intimidating the other hives, robbing? 
I would never buy a hive with those kind of genetics, prefering mild bees that keep to themselves and just work and gather honey. Don't encourage those kind of genetics!!  JUST KIDDING!!

Sounds like a great guy who can and will help out in a pinch!


----------



## Keith Jarrett

Gee, guy's are missing the point here. 
Nobody said Juan's queen's are bad.
What is being question'd here is the high percent level of dead ones.
So who's faut is it? Well nobody is pointing fingers other than there is a high level of dead one's,

Iddee made the case that Chef ordered five more than needed so there no big deal.Well, I got 500 nuc to pull off at the end of this month, so should I order $1000 worth of extra queens ?

If it is UPS that killed the queens, well maybe like JBJ did more noise should bee spent over there.


----------



## iddee

If you plan to install queens in those 500 nucs, plus drive to town, all in two hours, than yes, you should order plenty extra.

Think about getting a phone call at 2:00PM, driving to the beeyard, pulling 35 queens, packaging them for shipping, and driving to UPS by 4:00 PM. I'm thinking blue suit and a big S on the chest. The man went way beyond duty for a customer.


----------



## high rate of speed

Ok FSP is the secret ingrediant for the pollen sub.


----------



## JohnK and Sheri

Instead of jumping all over Keith and HRS for pointing out the obvious (maybe in not the most diplomatic way, lol) in an open forum, think about the economics here of a 10% doa on queens. This is the angle Keith is talking about and he is correct. I don't see this as an attack on Juan at all. I am sure Juan would also be unhappy with this high loss rate. 10% is totally unacceptable, something went wrong here. As pointed out, queens die, they are fragile, perishable creatures. Perhaps it is on UPS shoulders, perhaps a "pickee" in training, or perhaps the way they were handled post delivery, perhaps just luck of the draw. I certainly don't know what happened, but I would bet Juan would want to know about this. (although maybe in not so public a way as this forum).
In Chef's case considering the dire need for these queens and the speed of delivery the high rate of loss is a non issue. Been there, done that, hate that place! There have been a couple times I would have paid triple to get *any* queens, no matter the cost or loss rate.

Under most circumstances, I would say the norm and an acceptable one when dealing with orders of 100 or more is in the 1%-2% range, and most shippers send extra to cover that percentage. We received 100 queens from Juan a couple weeks ago and only 1 out of those was dead. I don't quite remember the logistics of this particular purchase, but I think we ordered on Friday or Saturday, for Monday shipment and they came UPS Tuesday morning. Nice queens and great customer service. We are satisfied customers and would order from him again.
Sheri


----------



## Keith Jarrett

JohnK and Sheri;318026diplomatic way said:


> Ya Sheri, Diplomatic, gee I think I fail that class.
> Sheri, BTW must have passed that class.
> 
> Most of my post I try to get to the point, maybe sounds harsh at times but not alot of fluff.
> 
> Funny thing, JBJ of beesource bought about 500 plus pounds of bees this spring. I was at my shop til one in the morning helping John get those bees in his boxes. I was out shaking packages the at six in the morning for Noble Apiaries, so I do understand how it goes in the bee world when things get cramed into one.


----------



## Flyer Jim

To start with, I have purchased queens from Juan. My friend Action and I went down and picked up our queens. I'm very happy with them. I will buy queens from him again, so will Action. Not one dead queen. Another friend has bought at least 400, also very happy, didn't mention any dead queens, but we all picked our queens up in person.
(Juan and his family are very nice people, by the way)

When I get queens that are delivered by UPS or USPS, I pick them up at their location first thing in the morning. I've found that letting them ride around in their trucks until they get them to me, results in dead queens. 

10% loss is too great if you're trying to run a business. Whether it's dead queens, or spilt syrup. I guess if it's a hobbie it doesn't matter if you loose money, but I'll bet Chef Isaac wouldn't like it if one of his burger flippers was dropping every 10th hamburger.

I thought there was talk of a forum (at one time) for commercial beekeepers or at least people who are trying to make money in the bee business. Anyway, that's my two cents.
Jim


----------



## Chef Isaac

Jim:

PLEASE do not expose my secret... I eat every 10th burger!


----------



## Angi_H

ScadsOBees said:


> Whats that? They are like gangs? Aggressive, intimidating the other hives, robbing?
> I would never buy a hive with those kind of genetics, prefering mild bees that keep to themselves and just work and gather honey. Don't encourage those kind of genetics!!  JUST KIDDING!!
> 
> Sounds like a great guy who can and will help out in a pinch!


Going like gang busters meaning once they were hived they went flat out like a lizzard drinking building up very fast and having honey supers on them already. Very very clam bees I have not had to use smoke on them at all to deal with them just open the hive and mess with them and they could care less. Also very hygenic (sp) They clean like no ones business. I tested them on a small spot I cut out and froze of brood and when I put it back in the next day by that evening they had already pulled all the dead brood out and were cleaning and making sure it was attached back to the foundation well. Very very good genetics there that is for sure.


----------



## Angi_H

Flyer Jim said:


> I thought there was talk of a forum (at one time) for commercial beekeepers or at least people who are trying to make money in the bee business. Anyway, that's my two cents.
> Jim



Just because we are not as big as commercial bee keepers dosnt mean we are not also trying to make money in the bee business. And just because we are small now dont mean we are not going to be big in the future. I went from having 2 to having 8 and I have to make splits on 4 hives so there is 12. That is plus 10 for this year from splits and swarms and cutouts. And I am doing another cutout on friday on a house where the fire department will burn it down for training. Got to save those bees. The great thing about that is I can cut as much of the house up as I need to take care of them lol.

Angi


----------



## MapMan

Keith Jarrett said:


> Ya Sheri, Diplomatic, gee I think I fail that class.
> Sheri, BTW must have passed that class.
> 
> Most of my post I try to get to the point, maybe sounds harsh at times but not alot of fluff.
> 
> Funny thing, JBJ of beesource bought about 500 plus pounds of bees this spring. I was at my shop til one in the morning helping John get those bees in his boxes. I was out shaking packages the at six in the morning for Noble Apiaries, so I do understand how it goes in the bee world when things get cramed into one.


Keith, your halo is so bright, I need sunglasses! However, saints have humility. No fluff here.

MM


----------



## Keith Jarrett

MapMan said:


> Keith, your halo is so bright, I need sunglasses! However, saints have humility. No fluff here.
> 
> MM


LOL 4:30 am, got to go a catch up on some fluff.


----------



## Keith Benson

No queen supplier will deliver 100% of queens alive 100% of the time. Can't be done as part of the process is out of their hands. 

A single reported case with 10% mortality cannot be said to typify an operation, so to make a judgment about a supplier based on that, is, well, silly. 

The big question is, if one had ordered those queens, and they had arrived DOA what would Juan have done if the recipient had called him to report the loss? IF the answer is promptly replace them, then no harm no foul.

Heck I ordered some queens last year from a supplier on the other side of the US. One arrived dead. They shipped out a new one and life went on, I was happy and thought nothing more of it.

I guess the question is WWJD? Methinks, given what I have heard is that if Chef were to call him up, the queens would be replaced. That Chef has not taken it upon himself to do that is another issue.

Would everyone (who has ordered queens more than 10 times) who has never received a dead queen please raise their hands . . . . <crickets>

Keith "how do people fit an entire tempest in a teacup? Benson


----------



## high rate of speed

Keith Benson said:


> No queen supplier will deliver 100% of queens alive 100% of the time. Can't be done as part of the process is out of their hands.
> 
> A single reported case with 10% mortality cannot be said to typify an operation, so to make a judgment about a supplier based on that, is, well, silly.
> 
> Would everyone (who has ordered queens more than 10 times) who has never received a dead queen please raise their hands . . . . <crickets>
> 
> I kind of thought this was an open forum.All that I was saying was for the amount of queens purchased that was a high mortality rate.2 dead queens per 200 is nothing.Most repretable queen outfits always send extra for this reason.


----------



## Dick Allen

well, a couple or three queens i guess it was that died. how many dead horses are going to be beaten up on now.....


----------



## Keith Jarrett

Keith Benson said:


> No queen supplier will deliver 100% of queens alive 100% of the time. Can't be done as part of the process is out of their hands.


Well Keith,

I have a order of queens from HI in late Jan as I do everyear. This year the order was 800 queens, 4% extras queens come with every order as a standard. Very seldom are any dead, where I lose them is when I keep them for a couple weeks. This is touche because the weather is not in your favor at that time of year, and can make it a challenge to make up hives in the cold rainy wheather.

The guy that has the best deal is "old flyer Jimmy" he come by the bee yard with his hands in his pocket. He pays for ONLY the live Queens and I get his bank with bees ready for him. Now that is the best deal of all. OOhhh and he want's to talk about commercial Beekeeping, LOL LOL sorry Jimmy I couldn't pass this one up. 

P.S I think Juan has the most air time ever as this thread has some legs.


----------



## high rate of speed

I want his autograph.


----------



## Flyer Jim

I did'nt say I wanted to talk. I want to hear what you big boys have to say. I said thanks and I did learn about queens. 
Jim


----------



## high rate of speed

Gee keith ,make up a bank for me to.Jk.


----------



## Keith Jarrett

Flyer Jim said:


> I want to hear what you big boys have to say.


Well shoot Jim, as you can see I'm being thrown under bus on this thread, I think I should invest in a creeper. LOL

And you want to hear what I say... 1 out of five thousand is a start I guess, LOL.

Jimmy, I need to grease this creeper.

Heck, I'm home early, Got a bad call,water leak in complex.


----------



## Keith Benson

Keith Jarrett said:


> Well Keith,
> 
> I have a order of queens from HI in late Jan as I do everyear. This year the order was 800 queens, 4% extras queens come with every order as a standard. Very seldom are any dead, where I lose them is when I keep them for a couple weeks.


I think the point has been missed. 

Keith


----------



## Keith Benson

Keith Jarrett said:


> I'm being thrown under bus on this thread,


Nah, this is a discussion board after all. We are discussing.

Keith


----------



## JohnK and Sheri

Keith Jarrett said:


> .... I'm being thrown under bus ....


It isn't the first time, lol. I'm gonna start calling you "tire tracks".
Sheri


----------



## Keith Jarrett

JohnK and Sheri said:


> It isn't the first time, lol. I'm gonna start calling you "tire tracks".
> Sheri


LOL.. ya remember "small circle Keith" Bob H invented that one.

Hey Sheri, Ask old HRS what happen when a almond grower say my bees aren't strong enough. Mike got the 4th of july in Feb, LOL


----------



## queenman

*GEE that about 10% loss rate.......... not!!!!!!!!!!*

Gee Chef, that about 10% loss rate. 

well for all of your inforamtion and if you want to talk statistically it is not a 10% loss so try to do your math better!


----------



## Keith Benson

queenman said:


> Gee Chef, that about 10% loss rate.
> 
> well for all of your information and if you want to talk statistically it is not a 10% loss so try to do your math better!


3 dead from 35 is indeed less than 10%, IT IS 8.571428571428571428571428571428571428571428571428571428 . . . you get the picture.

So? I think there would have been kvetching even if the decimal point was several spaces to the left.

Keith


----------



## Keith Jarrett

queenman said:


> so try to do your math better!


I said "about" I did not say to the T.


----------



## Keith Jarrett

Queenman,
If I had those percent losses on my order this spring it would be somewhere over a $1,000.00 & that's just one order.

I know guys it Just "chump change".


----------



## high rate of speed

Now louie,that chump change might fuel one of the bee trucks up once.Or that bus that keeps running you over.Just remember,its only a couple gallons.


----------



## Keith Jarrett

Ya Lou, I new that would fire things up. I got to do my math better they say.


----------



## Keith Jarrett

high rate of speed said:


> .Just remember,its only a couple gallons.


More than that for big shoes, I passed about 3,000 of your hives today on 104 and had the second or third round of syrup on. How many tanker loads is that for this spring? Ha, just a couple gallons.LOL


----------



## high rate of speed

Well since jim wanted to here the commercial guys,lets see here.ABOUT a 10% loss=$1000 10 times a year = 1 tanker load of syrup


----------



## high rate of speed

Keith Jarrett said:


> More than that for big shoes, I passed about 3,000 of your hives today on 104 and had the second or third round of syrup on. How many tanker loads is that for this spring? Ha, just a couple gallons.LOL


About 3 loads since april 20th.


----------



## queenman

*Beekeeprs?*

3 dead from 35 is indeed less than 10%, IT IS 8.571428571428571428571428571428571428571428571428 571428 . . . you get the picture. thanks for taking the time to do the math for me lol

So? I think there would have been kvetching even if the decimal point was several spaces to the left.

well Keith i don't know why you give sucha hard time on these types of things. The shipper is probably giving a 4% extra. Don't you got something better than to take peoples head off. Just dropit,


----------



## high rate of speed

Last time I checked 8.57 is closer to 10 than 5.Maybe they dont round or talk averages in this thread.


----------



## Keith Jarrett

Queenman I hear what you are saying.

Thread thread say something like this "Consumer report issues good & bad" Chef painted a perfect picture, I just put my two cents worth in , I thought the loss rate was above avg. Yes, I spent six years in college, I know that 3.5 is ten percent of 35.

Queenman, where I am coming from is I run my bees on percent & avgerages, 1700 hives that gross 225 per hive = xyz. From there I have milage of trucks, hours of lifts ect... Then I can find the real NOI /ROI.
That's how I was taught to do math.

HRS.... NOI = Net operating income, ROI=return on invesment


----------



## queenman

*percents?*

well we are not rounding of in this thread so don't make the effort anymore.
well ii run 7500 hives and they don't run on percents!!


----------



## Keith Benson

queenman said:


> Don't you got something better than to take peoples head off. Just dropit,


I think you are confusing Keiths - there are two, and they are not necessarily agreeing. Check the last names.

Keith "you know, the one that has been largely pro-Juan" Benson


----------



## Keith Jarrett

queenman said:


> well we are not rounding of in this thread so don't make the effort anymore.
> well ii run 7500 hives and they don't run on percents!!


Well let me try this on for size.

We put bees in the almonds, our contract read " 8 frame AVG''
Joe trayor bee broker needs a 8frame AVG
Hey Mike how was your honey crop this year? We AVG 110 pounds per hive. 

Hey Joe how did your queens turn out, We AVG 80% on the graft (cells) and a 75% "take" in the mating nucs.

ABJ, every year reports the bees losses in PERCENT.
How was your winter, we did good only 15% losses.

If you want to try and micro-manage that number that's fine, But that is not the industry stadard.


----------



## Keith Jarrett

queenman said:


> .
> well ii run 7500 hives and they don't run on percents!!


Queenman your bio says your 19 years old, and you say your running 7500 hives.

Well.... maybe your menthod is better, because I don't know any 19 year olds running 7500 hives, my hats off to you.


----------



## queenman

*keith*

don't be a hater and just take one for the team just cuz i run more hives than you 
and all htose averages can be topped by me. well like my hive averaged 18 frame avg in the almonds. graft cell were 89% and the take in miniun nucs were at 81% so.................yeah!!!!


----------



## JohnK and Sheri

Hi Queenman and welcome to the forum. It is good to see another commercial beek here, we are the minority, for sure. Remember, percentages aside, it is not how many bees you run it is how much money you make per colony that counts. Just like it doesn't matter what you gross, it's what is left after the bills and the taxes are paid. In that respect some of the "little" guys who retail everything make a better return than us "commercial" folks, and they might even enjoy it more.
Now, you gotta admit, at 19, you could not be a student and run 7500 colonies by yourself. You must be a member of one of the Chico area queen rearing families. So, care to properly introduce yourself or is it a big secret?
Sheri


----------



## Hambone

I need a popcorn Smilie.


----------



## Keith Jarrett

queenman said:


> don't be a hater and just take one for the team just cuz i run more hives than you
> and all htose averages can be topped by me. well like my hive averaged 18 frame avg in the almonds. graft cell were 89% and the take in miniun nucs were at 81% so.................yeah!!!!


 AVG...That's pretty good because you don't know any of them.
Those are some wild statements you have there buddy.


----------



## Keith Jarrett

Derek1 said:


> I need a popcorn Smilie.


Ya, this is to much.


----------



## Keith Jarrett

So what does a 18 frame bring in the almonds?


----------



## JohnK and Sheri

Keith Jarrett said:


> So what does a 18 frame bring in the almonds?


Yeah, I was wondering the same thing. Now me, if I had an 18 frame average, I think I would split them. Joe must be bangin his door down trying to sign him up.
Sheri


----------



## Keith Jarrett

You Know sheri, I think I gave data on every claim that I made to support my thoughts.
Now we have a loose cannon going wild! I think it would be good to take cover under the BUS.LOL


----------



## JohnK and Sheri

Now Keith, maybe we should be taking a pilgrimage to Butte County and learn how to be beekeepers. 
Sheri


----------



## Keith Jarrett

Ya I hear you Sheri, But do you know how many keepers are up there.


----------



## JohnK and Sheri

Keith, while we are up there we can visit Juan, he lives in Butte County too.
Hmmm, what a coincidence. 
Sheri


----------



## Keith Jarrett

Ya Sheri count me in.

The Angel here is too many hands that it travels threw.

It's like when we shake packages last week, out come the generator for power the lap top & printer, stay in the truck, a large net is place over the truck and a long tube 20 long feeds the packages so there are no bees on the out side of the package . We shake all day and within two hour those baby are 30,000 feet in the air heading to there new home. But I'm just a rookie with 1700 hives.


----------



## BULLSEYE BILL

What is Juans last name?

Queenmans phone number came up on reverse phone lookup as listed here, I removed the house number.
Something smells fishy I agree, 19 year olds don't have that many hives and the stats he gives are preposterous as is his lack of business sense. Now play nice.


Angelica Luquin 
xxxx MILKY WAY
BIGGS, CA 95917
(530) 868-1605


----------



## JohnK and Sheri

Juan's last name is Tinoco. And guess what? He lives in......
Biggs. _Another_ coincidence. Amazing, I'd say. I bet queenman might even _know_ Juan, ya think? 

I have a thought, maybe, do ya think, maybe queenman IS Juan? Naw, can't be....or can it? The phone number IS different than the one we contacted him for queens a while back, but the Milky Way address sounds familiar. 
Sheri

"Now play nice" Trying, but Keith is a bad influence on me.......


----------



## high rate of speed

Shure glad Im not a hog farmer,I dont think my rubber boots even fit anymore.Wow heads are sure swelling.Popcorn and starbucks keith how bout it.my treat.


----------



## BjornBee

Oh, this is as "RICH" as it gets. One person, noted for turning every thread into a "pat myself on the back" and "let me tell you what I'm doing so special"...actually questioning another person.

If someone orders 50 queens....I'm sure we'll hear about some order for 500...no. no, make that 5,000 queens.

If someone mentions an order for 50 pounds of pollen sub....we hear something like "I order it by the 2,000 tot.

And if things really get bad, You will hear "Did you ever order 20,000 or 30,000 dollars of queens?

And for the tough spots, its "I know Ray" or "I know blah, blah, blah"

This is exactly why when the consumer report thread was started and we were discussing such things, I was not in favor of it. This thread turned into a denigration of speculation, people out to make a point, make others look bad, all the while puffing out one's own chest and bragging (as is par for some).

This is a consumer report thread. I find it in poor taste, and poor professionalism for where this thread went. Of the four main posters, I expected it from two of the participants, but am very disappointed in the other two.

I hope nobody has a gripe with my opinion. It seems like opinions are being thrown around a lot here as of late, with little regard for respect or consideration. It's seems some are really please with their discussion and feel proud. But I would imagine some are not laughing with you. Not that you may care.....


----------



## high rate of speed

Gee,never noticed any blah,blah,blah,only speaking the truth.


----------



## Keith Jarrett

Ya Lou, he's just bitter, brings all this old baggage with him.


----------



## high rate of speed

Some of this fluff sounds like LT.


----------



## Dan Williamson

wrong thread


----------



## Dan Williamson

wrong thread


----------



## BULLSEYE BILL

Alright guys, we've wandered way off topic and some of this is getting close to personal.

Either discuss the good deed that Juan had done for Chef or drop out, my finger is on the trigger.


----------



## Keith Jarrett

BULLSEYE BILL said:


> Alright guys, we've wandered way off topic and some of this is getting close to personal.
> 
> Either discuss the good deed that Juan had done for Chef or drop out, my finger is on the trigger.


Bill, I agree with you with keeping on subject matter. The Consumer report thread says talk about what you like & also what you don't like.

This who thread from the start was to mention that that queen loss rate was above the avg, and I went no further, I tried to explian & provide info that supports this. I not once said it was Juans doing, it could ups ect... But to stand by and except 8.5% losses as ok?


----------



## JohnK and Sheri

OK, Bill, taking it to PM, although credibility and experience seems relative when considering consumer reports.
Y'all have a great day...
Sheri


----------



## Dan Williamson

JohnK and Sheri said:


> ... although credibility and experience seems relative when considering consumer reports.


Precisely.... Actually...that should be the case with any discussion not just consumer reports.


----------



## high rate of speed

I thought the consumer report was a discussion or a point of view about a person or business,good or bad.Their was never one word spoken bad about Juan or anyone else in that matter just dicussion.Last time I looked alot of threads get off topic.My apologieze.Have a great day.


----------



## Keith Benson

Derek1 said:


> I need a popcorn Smilie.


http://www.improvresourcecenter.com/mb/images/smilies/popcorn.gif


----------



## BULLSEYE BILL

Keith Jarrett said:


> Bill, I agree with you with keeping on subject matter. The Consumer report thread says talk about what you like & also what you don't like.
> 
> This who thread from the start was to mention that that queen loss rate was above the avg, and I went no further, I tried to explian & provide info that supports this. I not once said it was Juans doing, it could ups ect... But to stand by and except 8.5% losses as ok?


KJ, I really think that this thread was about Juan going the extra mile to drive out to an outyard, pick 30 queens, package them and get them to UPS in two hours. The loss rate to me is understandable given the circumstances. Acceptable? Not to us, but the rest of the story had not played out yet. Give Juan a chance to help Chef out with the losses. Being the good businessman he is it will work out.

Keith, your a bulldog, you set your teeth and won't let go. You need to step back sometimes and take in the whole picture. Don't let other posters like QM suck you into a juvenile argument, I know you are a bigger man than that. The popcorn smiley was appropriate at that point.


----------



## Keith Jarrett

Bill, well said.


----------



## Angi_H

Now you said just because of his age he can not have that many hives. When I drove up there to pick up packages I meet his dad. Juan is in business with his dad. He is going to be taking over the business. They have tons of hives and lots of outyards. When I met his dad when I picked up packages all of the workers and his dad were in there suits. The workers there must have been 5 or 10 several were working on mini mating nucs and they were stacked by the thousands getting ready for the enxt maitings. There were more guys in the back. As well as feed tanks and hives stacked all over the place as well as supers. There were also bee trucks galore. Just because of his age please dont count them out. I talked with his dad and they are very nice people. Calling those numbers will get them. You can either leave a message and talk with him or you can continue to bash him and say he is somone else when Maybe it is Juans Dad or someone else who works there. Juan goes to college and is not able to get on the boards very much and he also helps his dad with the bee business why dont you guys give the boy a flippen chance to defend him self instead of bashing him.

This is all I am going to say about this. They have great bees and great queens my hives and splits from those hives says it for them selfs.

Angi


----------



## JohnK and Sheri

Angi_H said:


> Now you said just because of his age he can not have that many hives.


I think I said this, *talking to Queenman*. Nobody knows who he is, he didn't say. You are assuming it IS Juan. Doesn't matter, I stand by my statement. It is impossible for a 19 year old who is a student to run 7500 hives by himself, so I qualified by saying "You must be a member of one of those big queen rearing families" Sounds like he is, so what is your problem with that?



Angi_H said:


> I talked with his dad and they are very nice people. Calling those numbers will get them.


I know they (at least Juan) is a very nice easy to deal with person. We bought queens from them and will again.


Angi_H said:


> You can either leave a message and talk with him or you can continue to bash him and say he is somone else when Maybe it is Juans Dad or someone else who works there.


I think you are confused, Juan never directly responded to this thread. I am assuming Queenman is a cousin, employee or some such who does more harm than good trying to defend Juan. At this point we don't even know who Queenman is. If you call challenging _his_ irrational statements "bashing", well, so be it.



Angi_H said:


> why dont you guys give the boy a flippen chance to defend him self instead of bashing him.


*Nobody here was bashing Juan.* This was a discussion of the acceptable losses for mail order queens. Isaac was the one who initially posted the abysmal numbers. Some of us responded from a professional view point that they were not so good. This is the purpose of this thread. I think I said most queen rearers usually send extra. Some send extra, some make up for dead ones and it looks like Juan has done just that. From dealing with him I had no doubt he would, if he were aware of the loss. 
If any of you who used to think a 10% loss (OK, 8.***) was acceptable and think differently now, consider yourselves a little better educated. 

You folks who keep trying to paint this as bashing are doing Juan a disservice.
Sheri


----------



## queenman

*well know !!*

yes i am cousin of juan and i might not run 7500 bees but him and his father and uncles do sicirely run 7,500 colonies in biggs california and if you don't believe me than you can give juan a call and ask him your self.


----------



## Dick Allen

> Alright guys, we've wandered way off topic and some of this is getting close to personal.
> 
> Either discuss the good deed that Juan had done for Chef or drop out, my finger is on the trigger.


Bill why not go back and just delete everything beyond Chef's first post? 

Well, maybe you could leave my post or two in and the popcorn smiley was good, too.


----------



## JohnK and Sheri

Welcome to the board Queenman. I _knew_ you were someone loyal to Juan. 
I think you will find that if you are straight with the other board members they will be straight with you. You might even learn a thing or two. I know I do on a regular basis.
Cordially,
Sheri


----------



## Keith Jarrett

queenman said:


> yes i am cousin of juan and i might not run 7500 bees but him and his father and uncles do sicirely run 7,500 colonies in biggs california and if you don't believe me than you can give juan a call and ask him your self.


Queenman,setting the record strait, well done, and I mean that sincerly, Keith


----------



## Keith Jarrett

JohnK and Sheri said:


> *Nobody here was bashing Juan.* This was a discussion of the acceptable losses for mail order queens. Isaac was the one who initially posted the abysmal numbers. Some of us responded from a professional view point that they were not so good. This is the purpose of this thread. I think I said most queen rearers usually send extra. Some send extra, some make up for dead ones and it looks like Juan has done just that. From dealing with him I had no doubt he would, if he were aware of the loss.
> If any of you who used to think a 10% loss (OK, 8.***) was acceptable and think differently now, consider yourselves a little better educated.
> 
> You folks who keep trying to paint this as bashing are doing Juan a disservice.
> Sheri


This is the whole deal, what I was looking at & BTW many others is how do you improve the rate of losses when shipping queens or packages.

What sets me off is "its ok to have these kind of losses it happen all the time" that's what I heard from this and other threads. .

Most that know me well, Know that I don't settle for second best or "it is what it is" the kind of thought doesn't go through my mind. If it doesn't work, I look to build a better mouse trap.

Sherry's Barry's, This gal started a bussiness in Sacramento CA, She sends coated stawberry vai UPS. They come packed in dry ice and insulated box. What striked me was, Sherry came up with a solution for her product, how come we haven't?

That was the bases of my point in this thread, never to undermine Juan, But rather why is it that we as a industry put up with this.


----------



## Keith Jarrett

One question, is Tinocobee & Juan the same person??


----------



## JohnK and Sheri

Keith Jarrett said:


> One question, is Tinocobee & Juan the same person??


We are as sure of that as we are that you are Keith Jarrett.

Tinocobee was the one advertising the queens originally here and that is who answered the phone to order, so I think it is safe to assume they are one and the same. Juan's last name is Tinoco. 
I suppose Tinocobee could be the company name as well.
Sheri


----------



## Keith Jarrett

JohnK and Sheri said:


> We are as sure of that as we are that you are Keith Jarrett.
> 
> Tinocobee was the one advertising the queens originally here and that is who answered the phone to order, so I think it is safe to assume they are one and the same. Juan's last name is Tinoco.
> I suppose Tinocobee could be the company name as well.
> Sheri


Thanks Sheri, 

I've been getting nasty PM'S from TinocoBee, I did not know who that was, but now I do.


----------



## BULLSEYE BILL

Dick Allen said:


> Bill why not go back and just delete everything beyond Chef's first post?


Now why didn't I think of that? 

Part of the problem here is that people in business don't hide behind screen names unless that name relates directly to their business. My main business is Bullseye Indoor Shooting Range, my beekeeping sideline is just that, a sideline, but carries my last name in the title.

I believe that anyone that posts here in a legitimate business wants the public to know who, what, and where they are. If they are not forthcoming with that information then they are suspect.

The juvenile offshoot to this thread did no service to the real owner of the business, Juan. We must keep in mind that there will be some sniping from time to time and we must resist getting involved with unproven and third party negatives about anyone's business, not just Juan's.


----------



## Action

*Queens A+*

Just recieved 120 queens, Well 126. Came from Juan and Jose. Shipped UPS all arrived alive and well 100%. Last batch of queens is doing very well (30).
Jack


----------

