# Low cost bee box construction



## ifixoldhouses (Feb 27, 2019)

That's cool, I'd like to see a bear try and tear that up


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## My-smokepole (Apr 14, 2008)

I am glad it is your back that is moving them.


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## William Bagwell (Sep 4, 2019)

Have not built one yet since my to-do list is so long. My idea is to just use 2 by material for the bottom brood box which will be moved the least. Then put a 45 degree chamfer on the top edge that stops half way in. That way there will be no ledge to catch rain with standard 3/4 thick boxes the rest of the way up.

Also since a 2X10 is only 1/8' of an inch less than a standard deep (9 5/8") Can you not split the difference and cut the frame rest rabbit 1/16" less? Lose 1/16" bee space both top and bottom.


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

Lose 1/16" bee space both top and bottom

Unfortunately that does not leave a bee space. If you are going to just use on the bottom box just add onto your bottom board.

All in all with the time and money you will put in bees just pay for a board and go standard.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

The actual width of nominal 2 X 10 is 9 1/4 inches. That would make stacking of boxes a real problem. For stationary bottom position you could get away with adding depth to the sides of your bottom board. You now have a box that cannot be set down without squishing bees if you have to move it off.


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## William Bagwell (Sep 4, 2019)

Bummer, was thinking of 2X4s and 2X6s... Been awhile since I used a 2x10 so had forgot they are 3/4" shy rather than 1/2". Actually just measured several dried out PT 2X10s and found one at 9" even and one at 9 3/8" most were very close to 9 1/4"


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## My-smokepole (Apr 14, 2008)

My time is worth to much to cut box parts. When i can buy them from the Amish for all most for the cost of lumber.


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## Jim_in_PA (May 17, 2016)

In order to pull this off with commonly available 2x stock, you'd need to go to 2x12 for deep boxes. Bee space matters. The extra thickness doesn't make for much utility, IMHO, and even if I used the material for whatever convenience that might bring, I'd still plane it down to no more than an inch but probably less. Weight matters. that said, I'm with my-smokepole...outside of some really lucky circumstances or having the ability to build in great volume, buying pre-cut boxes is often the same or less than buying the material. We just get the knocked down boxes from Mann Lake in our case when they are on sale. I'm a woodworking pro with pro suppliers and can't buy comparable material for less than the cost of buying the knockdown boxes when it comes to 5-10 at a time.


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## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

An option is to cut to 9 inches deep and then add 5/8 shim on top. The width of front and back shim is 3/8 less than 2x stock, to provide the rail for frames to rest on.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

That would be a good make do solution. Easy to replace the end section too when it gets ratted up from the hive tool.


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## podunk (Jun 14, 2013)

I've built some of my own deeps from some shipping crates I got from work. 1 x 12 pine boards, also have gotten some broken boards from Lowe's, made my own finger joint jig. Didn't think it was really worth the time and effort, also found if you're off a little bit it messes with bee space and I got a lot of burr comb between boxes. I guess if you're making nuc boxes it would be worth it.


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## unstunghero (May 16, 2016)

Jim_in_PA said:


> In order to pull this off with commonly available 2x stock, you'd need to go to 2x12 for deep boxes. Bee space matters. The extra thickness doesn't make for much utility, IMHO, and even if I used the material for whatever convenience that might bring, I'd still plane it down to no more than an inch but probably less. Weight matters. that said, I'm with my-smokepole...outside of some really lucky circumstances or having the ability to build in great volume, buying pre-cut boxes is often the same or less than buying the material. We just get the knocked down boxes from Mann Lake in our case when they are on sale. I'm a woodworking pro with pro suppliers and can't buy comparable material for less than the cost of buying the knockdown boxes when it comes to 5-10 at a time.


I get mill-sawn 4/4 cypress, full 12", 10' etc. in 4'-6' lengths (called shorts) for $0.60/board/ft. at the mill. I'm not a pro, but that's about $5.00 for an 8-frame deep. Look around, you never know what you might find in your area.


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## jnqpblk (Apr 7, 2015)

Ay yup, 2X side will work well including your tongue and groove joint.

But your comment "Finger joints with nails are not very strong"??? 

Really? I could kick a 3/4" finger jointed body all over a football field and it would hold up.

Mine, I use glue and staples. But still kickable.

Since I do not mistreat my bodies, the only way I can tell which ones I built +-20 years ago is by the rabbet piece butting the sides rather than going long.


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## HaplozygousNut (Dec 30, 2015)

jnqpblk said:


> Ay yup, 2X side will work well including your tongue and groove joint.
> 
> But your comment "Finger joints with nails are not very strong"???
> 
> ...


I haven't had much luck with exterior grade wood glues or construction adhesives. But I haven't tried many exterior construction adhesives yet. They seemed to lack in strength and were not weather proof even though people say they last a life time and that they will stick strongly. Applying the glue takes time to do, which I don't like. I have heard that clamps are key to the success of making glue work. 


The wood working friend that showed me this tongue-groove joint said that finger joints aren't truly a strong joint, as I have noticed using bee boxes... If you push from the inside with a hive tool (or pry bar in the case of badly propolized frames) the joint falls apart. 

*William Bagwell*:
I have made lids and bottom boards also by using construction wood. It is easy to nail or screw a wooden bar across three 2x6s side by side to hold it together to be a bee hive lid or bottom board. For the lid though you might want to put aluminium to keep the rain from hitting the lid on top and keep the wood dry, so that it lasts longer. I haven't had much luck with exterior grade paints for this, water just comes in over time and the paint actually holds in the moisture so that the wood does not dry out. There might be certain types of paints that work better though.

2x10s at Lowe's are much cheaper than 2x4s or 2x6s, so now I am going to use those instead to make bottoms and tops. 

You can also make top-bar hives using 6 lag screws and 4 nails. Each lag screw costs $1.60 and each washer $0.40, so it is not very cheap but simple to make. I am sorry I can't take pictures. If the lag screw is too small it will snap once you put strain or resistance on it with a rench or ratchet.


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## Jim_in_PA (May 17, 2016)

HaplozygousNut said:


> The wood working friend that showed me this tongue-groove joint said that finger joints aren't truly a strong joint, as I have noticed using bee boxes... If you push from the inside with a hive tool (or pry bar in the case of badly propolized frames) the joint falls apart.


As a very long time woodworker, both as an avocation and now professionally, I have to respectfully disagree with your friend's statement. Finger joints that are cut properly and completely glued are extremely durable because the majority of the contact area is not end-grain to side grain. There's no way they should fall apart, even after years of use if they are correctly assembled. The glue has to be applied to all surfaces (a small acid brush helps with that) and then the joints need to be clamped securely while the glue cures for the time indicated by the manufacturer for that particular glue to setup enough that you can remove the clamps. Most typical glues used need to fully cure for at least 24 hours at that point before proceeding with any finishing processes and deployment. The fasteners that folks use will not generally hold stronger than the glue, again when it's properly done, although they absolutely help keep things aligned so you can use fewer clamps and screws obviously have a little more "holding" power than nails.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Box building 101, glue, clamp, nail, repeat.

Even a finger joint that has not been glued is a bear to get apart if nailed from both sides as most are. Once glued, you will break the wood before the joint fails. I use Titebond III and it holds up to the weather very well, even if not painted. I have also stopped putting the aluminum on my tops. A coat of primer and two coats of exterior semi-gloss seem to be working fine, and I am in a humid environment.


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## JConnolly (Feb 21, 2015)

I have used 2x12s for deeps and 2x10s for mediums because it is sometimes cheaper than the 1x lumber, but I have a bandsaw and planer to mill them to 3/4". But the least expensive is to use Advantech flooring. It is a sheet good, it is water proof, and it stays flat. I can make a hive body for about $6. I can get 5 deeps and a medium out of a sheet, or 8 mediums. A sheet is $34. It is slightly heavier. An Advantech deep weighs 11 lbs (still less than a box made with 2x) while a pine 1x deep weighs about 8 lbs.

As for finger joints, when made to fit they are a super strong joint. When making finger joints reverse them from how they are shown in the plans. If you make the finger joints as shown in the plans then the frame rest end is unsupported and it can break off when prying frames out, ruining the box. Start from the bottom of the board. Begin with a notch on the end board, and do not cut the last notch at the top, leaving an extra wide finger instead. Begin with a finger on the side board and cut notches out. You'll be left with a 5/8" wide finger at the top. Clip this finger back to 3/8" long. That finger will then fill the end of the frame rest and you can overlap the end of the finger with the frame rest rabbet and secure it to the end of the finger, making it stronger. This is what you want.


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## HaplozygousNut (Dec 30, 2015)

JWPalmer said:


> Box building 101, glue, clamp, nail, repeat.
> 
> Even a finger joint that has not been glued is a bear to get apart if nailed from both sides as most are. Once glued, you will break the wood before the joint fails. I use Titebond III and it holds up to the weather very well, even if not painted. I have also stopped putting the aluminum on my tops. A coat of primer and two coats of exterior semi-gloss seem to be working fine, and I am in a humid environment.


I see that it is commonly thought otherwise, but as I have said before the finger joints seem to be a rather weak joint. I am gentle with the hives in order to not pull them apart. The Titebond III I have tried was better than the exterior grade liquid nail in holding up against moisture, but still would over a few months dissolve from being exposed to rain in our humid climate here in North Carolina.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

If a person is not prepared to make tight fitting finger joints then they would be better off with rabbeted joins. Common constsruction glues dont have much strength as gap fillers! 
I have made a few finger joint boxes and it takes know how and discipline to get tight fits. I have seen lots of video of terribly poor glue application. Well fit and glued they cant be beat for strength.

Rabbeting is so much easier in field conditions of boards with some cup etc. Really hard to get accurate finger joints. I had to shim a bit under the top partial finger.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

HaplozygousNut said:


> The Titebond III I have tried was better than the exterior grade liquid nail in holding up against moisture, but still would over a few months dissolve from being exposed to rain in our humid climate here in North Carolina.


I doubt you are any more humid than we are here in Richmond, VA. I do like Frank and use rabbeted joints on the boxes I make, but like the tight fitting joints of a well made finger joint. The Titebond III has held up well on both types. I also use a small brush to spead the glue evenly on all contact surfaces. Of course, I give my boxes a coat of oil based primer followed by two coats of latex top coat. I just last week had to take an unglued finger joint apart and it was a real pain. The replacement piece I made got glued in.


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## Jim_in_PA (May 17, 2016)

HaplozygousNut said:


> I see that it is commonly thought otherwise, but as I have said before the finger joints seem to be a rather weak joint. I am gentle with the hives in order to not pull them apart. The Titebond III I have tried was better than the exterior grade liquid nail in holding up against moisture, but still would over a few months dissolve from being exposed to rain in our humid climate here in North Carolina.


There's no way that Titebond III is "dissolving" in the weather. It's incredibly difficult to soften it even chemically once it's cured. The wood will pull apart before the adhesive will fail which can, however happen with excessive moisture getting to the wood. We'll have to agree to disagree about the strength of the finger joints. When properly constructed they are very hard to break.


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## HaplozygousNut (Dec 30, 2015)

Jim_in_PA, have you tried leaving frames that were glued with Titebond III out in the rain to get soaking wet? I have and that glue did dissolve once the water got soaked into the wooden frames. This is extreme and does not happen when boxes are stacked vertically with a lid on top so that the rain gets shed before soaking into the wood.


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## Jim_in_PA (May 17, 2016)

HaplozygousNut said:


> Jim_in_PA, have you tried leaving frames that were glued with Titebond III out in the rain to get soaking wet? I have and that glue did dissolve once the water got soaked into the wooden frames. This is extreme and does not happen when boxes are stacked vertically with a lid on top so that the rain gets shed before soaking into the wood.


No, I have not...I don't make frames. TB-III isn't supposed to be used in situations where something is immersed in water, however, so perhaps what you describe gets close to that kind of scenario., although I suspect that a lot of what you experienced may have been related to the wood being saturated, especially if it was pine that's often used for frames.


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## HaplozygousNut (Dec 30, 2015)

HaplozygousNut said:


> The wood working friend that showed me this tongue-groove joint said that finger joints aren't truly a strong joint, as I have noticed using bee boxes... If you push from the inside with a hive tool (or pry bar in the case of badly propolized frames) the joint falls apart.


Actually, that is not true. Sorry. The finger jointed boxes did not truly fall apart, only part of the joint started pulling apart or bending apart, so I stopped putting pressure with the hive tool. 

Also, I can't remember if I gave enough time for the glue in the frames to cure properly with the Tite bond 3. I will have to test more to make sure Tite bond 3 actually would dissolve or if it actually can hold up to the weather. So far I have seen Tite bond 3 that was squeezed out of the finger joints when assembling supers with nails not dissolve on the outside of the super. But inside, several of the finger joints have popped out to make cracks. I think it could be the warping of the wood rather than the dissolving of the glue that made the glue not hold.


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## Jim Braun (Nov 8, 2019)

On a side note, I just called my local lumber yard, not the big box stores, and priced 1" x 12" x 10' . Two years ago I built a batch of 10 out of 7 boards. I paid $89 at that time, this year I was quoted $117.60. I'll buy them from bee supply houses for much less than I can build them.


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## joebeewhisperer (May 13, 2020)

This is a great idea for nucs to winter. I've been studying on how to winterize by wrapping, insulating etc. Two inch stock would make a difference for sure.


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