# No shake package install



## mobe_45 (Mar 14, 2015)

Just checked on our second package install. Perfect with no loss of bees and No Shaking of package.
Here's how we did it.
1. Set empty deep super on bottom board.
2. have second deep super with frames and feeder ready.
3. take queen out of package.
4. take cork plug out of queen cage and If there is no candy plug, cover hole with finger.
5. have a mini marshmallow ready to insert.
6. After candy/marshmallow is in hole, set queen cage on a frame with the wire not facing the foundation.
7. We have the candy plug facing down or horizontal. (This is when there are no workers in with the queen) Secured with a rubber band to the frame.
8. Set the package in the bottom super with the hole directly below where the frame with the queen will be.
9. Set the full super over the empty super containing the package.
10. set the inner cover and the top cover on.
11. Next day- take the empty package and the empty deep out and set the full frame on the bottom board.
We had six bees still on the package which we brushed off the screen. Easiest and best install, no mad bees at all.
This is the only way we will ever do it from now on.


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## lemmje (Feb 23, 2015)

Awesome, and thanks! I get my packages in three weeks and, after much consideration, plan to do the same...sort of. My top super will contain a top feeder so they have syrup the first few days to draw comb. 

I know Michael Bush and others talk about releasing the queen outright and shaking the bees into the box, but I am not confident enough yet. I hope these are the last packages i need to buy because i plan to split and catch swarms and raise my own local bees, but again, like i said: not yet all that confident -- so I am falling back on a few old-timey ways my dad did (helped him up till 1984 or so) and truly look forward to changing what i know over the next few years.


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

Glad it worked I would encourage learning to shake bees. It's not a lot of work and the bees really don't get "mad" at all. I shook 4 packages today with direct releases in 1/2 hour. I USED to take longer but experience helps as you keep doing it. Just finished a glass of wine sitting in front of the new colonies watching them do their thing. I won't have to get back into those colonies for a couple of weeks. If the packages had been a day younger, I might have hung the cage but they were already getting along so I just pulled the screen and ran the queens in. It does pay to learn different ways to keep.

Nice post on the steps involved the way you did it. Thanks for the info!


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## honeyman46408 (Feb 14, 2003)

> We had six bees still on the package which we brushed off the screen. Easiest and best install, no mad bees at all.
> This is the only way we will ever do it from now on.


No mad bees and NO injured bees, remember ever bees injured in the "shake out" is a soon dead bee, let the bees do the work


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## MariahK (Dec 28, 2014)

Ok I did the same but my bee supplier said not to go into the hive for 7-9 days. Should I leave the package in there that long?


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## The Honey Householder (Nov 14, 2008)

Sorry I'm a package SHAKER. 
800 package shaken in, only took 2 1/2 days. 
We don't get back into our hive for 2-5 weeks. 
There was a few mad bees, but understandable. They came from GA at 90 deg. to OH at 28 deg. and 2" of snow one day. Those was some cold bees. More cold then mad.


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## emrude (Mar 23, 2015)

MariahK said:


> Ok I did the same but my bee supplier said not to go into the hive for 7-9 days. Should I leave the package in there that long?


I think you are going to have some combing. I installed(by shaking) Tuesday morning and I've been in the hive to feed twice.


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

MariahK said:


> Ok I did the same but my bee supplier said not to go into the hive for 7-9 days. Should I leave the package in there that long?


I just shake. But, my gut says to get in there sooner. Like by two days anyway.


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## mobe_45 (Mar 14, 2015)

MariahK said:


> Ok I did the same but my bee supplier said not to go into the hive for 7-9 days. Should I leave the package in there that long?


I would not wait that long. The girls will need fed before that, as well as what emrude said about combing in wrong places. Nearly all the bees will be out of the package in less than 18 hours. If there are any still in the package you can set it in front of the hive entrance and they will be gone soon.


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## GarfieldBeek (Jan 12, 2015)

I'm from Georgia. If you took me to Ohio and turned me loose in 28 degrees I would be angry also.

A few weeks from now when its 102 with 90 something percent humidity it will be a different story.


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## MariahK (Dec 28, 2014)

Ok I was thinking that I will go in today and pull then out


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

And how will your advice work when someone is installing bees when its cold? 

Easy when warm....... Just plain stupid when its cold and windy!!!!!!!!! 

My first load to Ak for 2015 shipped yesterday morning at 8 am. Arrived in Fairbanks at 4:15pm. Snow there last weekend. Since the weather upon arrival was in the mid 50's your method would work but there is no way in the world I would advise they be installed the way you say as its a method looking for a fast failure on a weather shift... Not on my life nor the bees.

Besides that its a big waste of time and a lot of back breaking work to move the "full of bees" off of the shell when its not even necessary if they are done top down.


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## mobe_45 (Mar 14, 2015)

I wanted to do the no shake when our first package arrived. The weather did not cooperate as it was in mid 30's and the bees did not want to move. Using just one deep with five frames pulled out, I had to lightly shake the package over the queen for them to surround her. I left the package in the hive for two days hoping it would get warmer, and eventually had to finish by shaking out the bees who did not want to leave the package. I don't know how many froze, but there were a dozen plus on the side of our garage and many more flying around when I put the covers on the hive. Too cold to leave it open long enough for them to return.
And yes, it was in the low 50's when I used the no shake method.
I wondered of flipping the package upside down over the queen and having it in the empty super on top would work also.


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## Colobee (May 15, 2014)

There are (apparently) many, many ways to install packages, and most of them seem to work. I haven't read too many reports about ways that DON'T work. 

Every situation may mean a slightly different approach. I like the sound's of yours - so long as the queen is kept warm. "Spilling" some of the first bees onto her, then placing the package beneath might be something to consider. There is usually a pretty good clump of bees that will fall right out. 

If you leave the empty package under there too long, they may begin building comb in places where it isn't needed or desired. I'd rather they direct as much effort as possible towards colony expansion - get that empty out as soon as it is practical.

I believe that when Michael Bush talked about direct releasing queens, he mentions taking into consideration how long the package had been "made up". Some packages are more ready to accept the queens than others. It sounds like russians are particularly notorious. The norm for new queen acceptance is ~3 days. If the package has been in transit for some number of days, that may be taken into account. Anything under 3 days may increase the odds of aggression towards the new queen.


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

Colobee said:


> There are (apparently) many, many ways to install packages, and most of them seem to work. I haven't read too many reports about ways that DON'T work.
> 
> Every situation may mean a slightly different approach. I like the sound's of yours - so long as the queen is kept warm. "Spilling" some of the first bees onto her, then placing the package beneath might be something to consider. There is usually a pretty good clump of bees that will fall right out.
> 
> ...


Not that it happens all that often but if I have to wait an additional day to hive a package that I bought (due to weather, etc.), I usually tap the bees down and watch how they're acting towards the queen for a few minutes. If they look good, I shake them in and do a direct release. A direct release saves me from having to pop that hive open once again in the near future and leaves the bees undisturbed for a good, long time.


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## MariahK (Dec 28, 2014)

Got the packages out, they we're empty, the bee's didn't even notice me so I grabbed the empty queen cages as well, and popped in the frames.


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## blamb61 (Apr 24, 2014)

mobe_45 said:


> I wanted to do the no shake when our first package arrived. The weather did not cooperate as it was in mid 30's and the bees did not want to move. Using just one deep with five frames pulled out, I had to lightly shake the package over the queen for them to surround her. I left the package in the hive for two days hoping it would get warmer, and eventually had to finish by shaking out the bees who did not want to leave the package. I don't know how many froze, but there were a dozen plus on the side of our garage and many more flying around when I put the covers on the hive. Too cold to leave it open long enough for them to return.
> And yes, it was in the low 50's when I used the no shake method.
> I wondered of flipping the package upside down over the queen and having it in the empty super on top would work also.


That is how I've done it. Put empty super on top with a full feeder. Put queen below empty super. Put package in empty super on its side, if go upside down can squish bees. I havn't tried leaving right side up. Go back next day or two.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

I'd suggest that you rethink beekeeping if you're scared of 3 pounds of homeless bees with nothing to defend. You do realize you are going to have to look in the hive at some point right?

Better to get that initial fear conquered before you are in a situation where you need to be able to act calmly. A package of bees and a fresh swarm are pretty darn forgiving.


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## MariahK (Dec 28, 2014)

I don't think its about "being scared". More of trying to install them gently.. Also your reply was kind of rude, just saying.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

MariahK said:


> I don't think its about "being scared". More of trying to install them gently.. Also your reply was kind of rude, just saying.


They have been through much worse by the time they get into your hands. And will be happy to be able to take a poop. I'm just saying a fresh package is a good intro to bees and how to handle them. If you take a decidedly hands-off approach I think you miss a lot of learning experience when they will be more forgiving. Pinching a bee between your fingers hiving a package is a better scenario than doing it when you're clumsily rifling through their broodnest a couple of weeks later.


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

We tried a "no shake" method this year, either putting the box in a deep with some frames to the side with the queen cage between them, or lying sideways on top with an empty medium over the deep. That lets me leave the syrup can in there too, and since the queens were introduced to the bees yesterday (Kelley switched queens for me as I ordered Russians), I left the candy in. I'll pull the boxes and fill the deeps with frames this afternoon when it quits raining. Bees were happily orienting all afternoon, and with rainy weather (and a frame of honey from a deadout in each hive plus old drawn comb) I think they will be fine.

Shaking works just fine too, though, and can be better if you cannot get back to remove boxes, etc. in the next day or two. 

DO NOT leave the shipping box in the hive, the bees will draw comb in it where the queen cage was hanging. They will also draw comb on the queen cage and between the frames where the cage was hanging, even if it was only there for a day or two.

Peter


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>No mad bees and NO injured bees, remember ever bees injured in the "shake out" is a soon dead bee, let the bees do the work

How does shaking a package inure bees? I've never noticed any getting injured... I would just shake them and move on. I've seem more people get into trouble trying not to shake them and ending up with comb in the package or in some other empty space than getting into trouble shaking them. I never saw them get mad from shaking them. Confused? Yes. Angry? No.


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## ahickman406 (Mar 26, 2014)

I am installing 4 packages today. It is supposed to be 55 and very windy today, with a low of 32 tonight. 

So I am going to put a full super with drawn out comb on the bottom board, a medium super with at least 2 frames of honey on the top. I will pull out 5 of the 10 frames in the medium. Put the queen in between the supers with honey, put some bees on the queen and put the package right up next to the 2 frames of honey. A feeder will go on top and then my top cover. I am hoping that the temperature will be high enough to allow most of the bees to migrate from the cage to the frames before they want to go into a hard cluster.

I plan to go look at them tomorrow and see how they are doing.

And last week it was in the 60's and 70's. Always a new challenge with being a Beek.


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## ToeOfDog (Sep 25, 2013)

The Honey Householder said:


> Sorry I'm a package SHAKER.
> 800 package shaken in, only took 2 1/2 days.
> We don't get back into our hive for 2-5 weeks.
> There was a few mad bees, but understandable. They came from GA at 90 deg. to OH at 28 deg. and 2" of snow one day. Those was some cold bees. More cold then mad.


An amateur or backyard beekeeper has the luxury of time and should consider not following commercial beekeeping practices.


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## emrude (Mar 23, 2015)

I am a hobby beekeeper. I am willing to learning from commercial beekeeping. A commercial beekeeper will handle more bees in one season than I will in my lifetime. I also feel that they have advanced knowledge where hobby beekeeper see something and then make a bunch of guesses as to what maybe happening--then some of them tape and post on youtube, becoming instant "experts". I can treat my bees differently than a commercial beekeeper because I'm not under the pressure of making a living. As such I can pick and choose how I want to do things. Package bees have been around for maybe a hundred years. Shake and pour has been working that long so why change what is working. 
I think the best resources are local beekeepers. I am working on learning who these people are in my area. Like I said as a hobby beekeeper I get to choose and pick what works for me and my girls.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

One potential problem with this plan (one I have experienced first hand...not a theory) is that bees can touch each other through the mesh...which means the bees that are still in the package container don't know they are in a package container, and may well start building comb and laying brood in the burr comb.

I've tried several ways of installing packages without shaking over the years....I would only do this with drawn comb and honey stores above an empty box with the package...and even then things can go wrong.

Shaking is undoubtedly the best way to introduce a package.

deknow



ahickman406 said:


> I am installing 4 packages today. It is supposed to be 55 and very windy today, with a low of 32 tonight.
> 
> So I am going to put a full super with drawn out comb on the bottom board, a medium super with at least 2 frames of honey on the top. I will pull out 5 of the 10 frames in the medium. Put the queen in between the supers with honey, put some bees on the queen and put the package right up next to the 2 frames of honey. A feeder will go on top and then my top cover. I am hoping that the temperature will be high enough to allow most of the bees to migrate from the cage to the frames before they want to go into a hard cluster.
> 
> ...


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