# Spring mite treatment - what is good?



## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

Hi All,

(I did a search and found only a few old threads on spring mite treatments.)

My situation: I bought 4 nucs last spring. These are the first hives I have had in 30 years. The hives are in my backyard here in Denver, and sit in full sun all day. My hives struggled all season, didn't build much comb, populations didn't grow much, didn't produce much honey, and went into winter with about 3-4 deep frames of bees each and minimal stores. I did not not harvest any honey from any of the hives. 

I occasionally checked for mites during the season using a sticky board. I did see mites, but not at a level that would be considered to be an extreme threat to the hive. I treated with each hive with Apiguard according to the directions in the fall, and saw increased mite drops, but not what I would call huge numbers of dead mites. In other words, my hives do have mites, but not in debilitating out-of-control numbers.

I put each hive to bed for the winter wrapped in a Bee Cozy and with the Mountain Camp method of winter feeding/moisture absorption. At this point in the winter (the first day of February), I have lost one hive. There is good activity on the remaining three hives on warm days to make me think that they will probably make it to spring.

So far, we have had a dry winter with lower-than-average snowpack in the mountains. Since snowpack forms a large percentage of our water during spring/summer/fall, I believe we are unfortunately likely to endure another drought year, which means my already weak hives will probably struggle again this year to build comb, to build up population, and to collect much honey.

At this point under these circumstances, I am not expecting to harvest any honey this year, I just want my hives to build up to a healthy population and collect enough honey to get through the next winter without any feeding.

Considering how weak my hives are plus the expected drought conditions, I think it is especially critical that I get my hives off to the best start possible this spring. I already plan to start feeding pollen substitute and sugar syrup as soon as appropriate. To get the best possible start this season, I am wondering if a spring treatment for mites might be good to knock down whatever mite numbers I might have at the beginning of the bee (and mite) population spring build-up. My thinking is if I can reduce the mite population at the beginning of spring, the bees will benefit from fewer mites all season long. Sort'a like getting ahead of the curve on mite numbers.

Are spring mite treatments ever advised? Are there any spring mite treatment that have generally given good results? Any other suggestions on how to help my struggling hives.

TIA

--shinbone



Transferring frames from nucs into full size hive bodies:


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

This will start getting pretty deep into beekeeping philosophy but my advice is to "first do no harm". First determine that you actually have a problem. Unless I miss my guess you had horrible buildup and flow conditions in your area last year. The fact that they are still alive says something. In my mind the ideal time to treat is late summer/early fall to get a healthy winter cluster. Do a powdered sugar mite test determine your mite levels first. They have been through a long broodless period they may well be fine. If not there are some good options out there but some of them might result in at least some delayed brood production.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

Jim - good points. Yes, they did survive a bad year which says good things about their genetics.

I do know the hives have mites. It seem any mite reduction that doesn't cause too much harm to the brood process can only help the hive. Also, it sees to me that if the bees are going to go through a set back in brood production, the best time to do that is at the beginning of brood development since they then have the longest time to recover from the set back, especially since the mites are really going to pile into the cells that first brood cycle after a winter of no brood (i.e. that first cycle of brood is already going to be set back some due to the mites).


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

shinbone said:


> Jim - good points. Yes, they did survive a bad year which says good things about their genetics.
> 
> I do know the hives have mites. It seem any mite reduction that doesn't cause too much harm to the brood process can only help the hive. Also, it sees to me that if the bees are going to go through a set back in brood production, the best time to do that is at the beginning of brood development since they then have the longest time to recover from the set back, especially since the mites are really going to pile into the cells that first brood cycle after a winter of no brood (i.e. that first cycle of brood is already going to be set back some due to the mites).


Yes, I would agree.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

a devil's advocate position would be if you harm the first round or two of brood in the spring that are meant to replace the dying winter bees, you might set them back below critical mass for dealing with cold snaps.

a sugar, alcohol, or ether wash might give you a better idea, as well as pulling 10 - 20 drone larvae and seeing what's there. (and culling the drone brood if it was loaded with mites)

i would prefer a brood friendly treatment in the early spring.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

squarepeg said:


> a devil's advocate position would be if you harm the first round or two of brood in the spring that are meant to replace the dying winter bees, you might set them back below critical mass for dealing with cold snaps.
> 
> a sugar, alcohol, or ether wash might give you a better idea, as well as pulling 10 - 20 drone larvae and seeing what's there. (and culling the drone brood if it was loaded with mites)
> 
> i would prefer a brood friendly treatment in the early spring.


I do ether rolls but I hesitate to tell others with just a few hives to kill bees. Brood friendly is the key here. Here is how I see the major options.
1 Check Mite. Excuse me while I laugh and gag
2. Apistan Seriously? 
3. Apivar. Probably pretty effective if you choose to use Amitraz in your hives
4. Oxalic vapor maybe yes but a trickle to a small hive in cool temps can be 
traumatic
5. Thymol. Pretty temperature dependent and may set back brood rearing a bit
6. Formic acid. temperature dependent and traumatic but short lived
7. Hopguard I haven't used it but this may be the best option of all for early spring

Thats my 2 cents take it for what it's worth


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## oldforte (Jul 17, 2009)

Watch the Fat Beeman on u-tube...fogging with FGMO with a little EO seems to be a good way to keep mites under control with little bad effect on bees and can be done most anytime they are out.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

If they make it til spring,the queen will outbreed the remaining mites. You treated last fall, I think your best bet is to leave them alone.


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## westernbeekeeper (May 2, 2012)

shinbone said:


> Jim - good points.



Yes, Jim has some great points here. I don't treat unless mite counts go over the economic threshold.


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

A small grease patty will either help a lot or not at all. Will not hurt. Use vegetable shortening.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

Thanks for all the replies!

A grease patty sounds like a great suggestion, since it won't do any harm.

I've read where some people suggest applying a single MAQS. The thought being a single MAQS won't have the deleterious affects a full application may have, and the single MAQS will at least knock down the mites in the phoretic stage which can be a large percentage of the mites in the beginning of the brood building cycle.

Jim Lyon mentioned "Hopguard." Some are reporting good results with it, especially when timed to be applied during a brood break: 

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?275872-Hop-Guard

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?269942-My-Hopguard-experience


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## papar (Apr 10, 2007)

shinbone said:


> Thanks for all the replies!
> 
> A grease patty sounds like a great suggestion, since it won't do any harm.
> 
> ...


You mention a large amount of phoretic mites in the spring. I assumed the opposite since the mites are eager to reproduce as the brood nest and drone population increases. Has anyone noticed higher then normal phoretic mites in spring, just curious?

I've used one strip of MAQS and noticed fairly good results, came back two weeks later and checked levels using either roll and felt I had a great knock down behind capped brood.

I would like to try Apivar on a few hives this spring, if they need it


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

westernbeekeeper said:


> Yes, Jim has some great points here. I don't treat unless mite counts go over the economic threshold.


ben, what is your economic threshold?


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

papar:

By "_a large percentage of the mites in the beginning of the brood building cycle"_, I meant before the spring brood build-up begins, i.e, little-to-no brood cells for the mites to be hiding in protected from a treatment that can't penetrate cell walls.


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## papar (Apr 10, 2007)

That makes sense, sorry if I misunderstood your comments. I have tried knocking down mites during the broodless period in Nov/Dec timeframe and it does work well


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

papar:

Did you do your successful Nov/Dec mite knockdown with a single MAQS strip, or something else?

After a little internet research, Hopguard sounds like it could be a good option. I am not sure if I can get it here in Colorado, though.


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## DPBsbees (Apr 14, 2011)

shinbone:

The Mann Lake site says that Hopguard is available in Colorado, but it says "License and Permit required". I'm not sure what that means for you. Hopefully, all you would need to do is apply to get it. I had someone in Florida get it for me.

DPBsbees


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

Thanks for the info. I am just a hobbiest with 3 hives hoping to grow to around a half dozen this year. I want healthy, strong hives, but becoming licensed and applying for a permit is more than I care to do for my hobby since there are workable alternatives that don't require such an administrative effort. A shame, too, since Hopguard seems like it has good mite control potential. Not sure why an agriculture state like Colorado wouldn't be more helpful to its beekeepers.


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## papar (Apr 10, 2007)

shinbone said:


> papar:
> 
> Did you do your successful Nov/Dec mite knockdown with a single MAQS strip, or something else?
> 
> After a little internet research, Hopguard sounds like it could be a good option. I am not sure if I can get it here in Colorado, though.


I did use the MAQS product, one strip, but I waited for a warm few day stretch, otherwise I'm not sure how effective it would have been below 50 degrees or so.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

papar - Thanks!


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

I have a different view. I believe in a hard knock back in the spring and then cleanup if needed in the fall.
Reasons....
1. Mites double in quantity every brood cycle of (3 weeks) 
2. When knocked back to less than ones percent in the spring, it will take 2 to 3 brood cycles for them to get to 1 percent. This buys time to the fall and helps to ensure healthy bees in August for the winter bees
3. The mites left in the fall will more than likely be below threshold, hence less of a clean up, making it easier for products like Formic. 
4. Since the mites are knocked back early n the spring, the bees will be healthy for the honey flow bringing In a good honey crop to pay for the hobby or business minded beekeeper.
5. With a good spring knock back, the bees will better handle some of the cool spring illnesses, and the healthy queen and her bees will do well at outpacing mite production.

Economic threshold is 4% . If you have a 1% mid May, by July the mites will be at 4% causing brood damage and lost honey production and a good chance the hive will not survive the winter or come out of winter with a very poor cluster size and poor chance of recovery in the second year. If left unchecked in July it is almost a definite death sentence either late fall or in late January or February. 
Just my two cents


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

honeyshack - Exactly what I was thinking, just much better thought out and articulated than I could do. How do you do your spring "hard knock back" and do you notice any deleterious effects from your method?


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

apivar in the spring, formic in the fall when the temps are in the right zone.
No. Key is to get the mites under control before the viruses or nosema set in creating complications and timing is everything.
I do alcohol wash in the spring and in the late summer and use a cappings fork (not used in the honeyhouse) and do drone pulls throughout the season to monitor mite increases.

Some hives seem prone to not respond to anything. Be it the queen or just a bad genetics. It's like bulls (bovine) not every bull is meant to breed. 95% should be cut and raised as steers for butcher. For those hives, which are few and far between, if they can not make it on what the rest get, cull them and start again. Bad genetics is no reason to throw away good hard earned $.

Lastly, I practice swapping out two brood frames from each brood box ( I run doubles, standard boxes) each year. That way, the comb is healthy too. Be it adding in dark honey frames or foundation, does not matter to me...what ever works.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

Good info. Thanks! When you do your spring Apivar treatment, do you apply according to the directions, or do you do a reduced treatment such as a shorter time period or applying less Apivar?


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

I always follow directions...even on withdrawal.
Never compromise the product with less of it or less time. This is how resistance is built. We need to remember that the key is to kill as many mites as possible. If we cut short the treatment or use less, we reduce the effacy leaving more mites. On the other side of the coin, rotate treatments and never leave the strips in all year. Our directions state that we can leave in for an extra brood cycle...but that is it and that is only if the first week the spring temps dropped.
The product only works when the bees walk on it. The distribution of the product is different for say formic which works like fumigation
We have some good chats in the chat room about this and other things...feel free to drop in if you like.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

Very helpful. Thanks!


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