# Apivar strips and demise of Queens!



## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Your queens are most likely just fine. They stopped laying....its that time of year and from a mite control perspective it's a good thing.


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## NewBeeLady (May 20, 2014)

jim lyon said:


> Your queens are most likely just fine. They stopped laying....its that time of year and from a mite control perspective it's a good thing.


Well I am going to hope that is the case. But here in Maryland that seems a little too early for a queen to shut down, especially when there were so many frames with solid brood when I put the strips on. 
And several good brood frames just 3 weeks ago. 

I didn't see any drone bumps, so maybe the queens are okay. I was just shocked to not find any brood. My 2 queens (from the summer split) have several frames with solid brood, so they have not slowed down. 

Fingers and toes crossed, but skeptical.

NBL


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

I have treated with Apivar for several years and the bees have never seemed to notice its coming or going. The queen lays right next to the strip and keeps on laying. I would look for another answer.


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## AthensM50 (Jun 7, 2015)

My Queen did the same thing last year....

she was fine this year.

time of year.....she has stopped.


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## thesecurityeagle (Jun 21, 2016)

NewBeeLady said:


> I put Aprivar strips on my 3 strongest hives, had tons of brood. Positioned as directed and left on for 6 weeks. I checked after 3 weeks, all good, brood, stores, happy bees.
> 
> Pulled them off yesterday - no brood, no larva, no nada - just lots of bees. What happened? How can that be a coincidence?
> 
> ...


I am 12 days in advance to the minimum treatment time of Apivar. I checked this past week and I have three frames with capped brood, I could not see and larvae or eggs. As you can imagine, I am concerned. There are an abundance of bees but I wonder if she quit laying early (we have had several nights in the high 40s) with the influence of treatment. I also saw quite a few SHBs. I am trying to obtain a queen (although I like the pattern of the capped brood I did see). If I can get my hands on one I will give the old queen the hive tool test (she was a green dot so she was two years old) and replace in hopes that we can make it through the winter and have a good spring.


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## UTvolshype (Nov 26, 2012)

You know how to quickly check on the disposition of the hive when you open them up? With a high population and no forage going on, they would be very very mad and have a loud buzzing going on without the queen in there somewhere!


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Queens still laying heavily this late in the year in northern climes is often a sign of a varroa stressed hive.


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## NewBeeLady (May 20, 2014)

jim lyon said:


> Queens still laying heavily this late in the year in northern climes is often a sign of a varroa stressed hive.


Really? Interesting. 

I can understand the slow down, but to stop completely? I will watch them very carefully for a couple of weeks, then I should know for certain.

Thanks to all - am encouraged... the bees know best. 

NBL


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## mbevanz (Jul 23, 2012)

Some young queens are still laying. The older queens that produced a crop are shut down. For the most part.


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## dbeachy1 (Mar 2, 2016)

I had a very similar experience on a much larger scale this fall. I installed Apivar strips in approximately 60 hives of varying sizes. I had approximately 30% of my hives that seemed unaffected by the strips but a majority of the hives re-queened or attempted to and failed, due to the time of year I suppose. I had several fall swarms with all of the supersedures going on. I had 1 five frame nuc with 1 strip abscond within 3 days of strip installation. I had 1 hive that built SS cells several times but the Queen repeatedly destroyed the cells and now that the strips have been removed is still laying well and the SS cell building has stopped. I had 1 hive re-queen and the new Queen went above the old brood chamber and began laying in a box that did not have strips. I had way too much going on to be a coincidence and certainly not normal. We have had an extremely hot and dry fall. I have wondered if that contributed in some way to the issues with the strips.

Based on what I saw time after time I believe the colonies thought the Queen was failing, possibly due to the fumes in the hive affecting her pheromone and the colonies replaced or attempted to replace their queens on a widespread scale. I have searched for others that have had a similar experience and, other than yourself, I have only found one other bee keeper that described the same issues that yourself and I have had. I am very surprised not more people have had or maybe realized they have had issues with Apivar. I am not sure if it is possible to get a "bad batch"??? It did take care of the mites for me but at quite a high cost in quality Queens...... Not sure what next years treatment will be. 

I am sure you are watching those hives closely. Though a lot of the great comments on here are accurate about normal slowdowns in laying for the time of year etc..., my experience would say you may need queens. Good luck!


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Start with beekeeping basics, then proceed to blame chemical use. It's quite possible nature has shut your brood nest down, not the strips


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

Vance G said:


> I have treated with Apivar for several years and the bees have never seemed to notice its coming or going. The queen lays right next to the strip and keeps on laying. I would look for another answer.


I agree. I used Apivar for two years and never had even a hiccup in the hives. I would suggest something else must also be in play for you to have your described results.


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## twgun1 (Jun 26, 2015)

Often young queens, raised in later summer, (post solstice), will shut down later in the fall than an earlier or previous years' queen. I do not quite understand why but it is a repeatable observation by many folks. Maybe that is why you are seeing a different amt of brood in your splits while the others have shut down?


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## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

I have an observation hive that I watch closely, the queen has shut down already and most of the capped brood has emerged. I thought there must be something wrong to stop so early but then going through my langs I also find very little brood so maybe these girls know something about this coming winter that we don't know. Another point is that I scan the OH with a magnifying glass for varoa and treat with a little formic acid when I find any mites, well with the brood declining there has been a mite explosion and the formic is very busy at the moment.
Johno


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## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

I have an observation hive that I watch closely, the queen has shut down already and most of the capped brood has emerged. I thought there must be something wrong to stop so early but then going through my langs I also find very little brood so maybe these girls know something about this coming winter that we don't know. Another point is that I scan the OH with a magnifying glass for varoa and treat with a little formic acid when I find any mites, well with the brood declining there has been a mite explosion and the formic is very busy at the moment.
Johno


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

johno said:


> the queen has shut down already and most of the capped brood has emerged. ....... I scan the OH with a magnifying glass for varoa and treat with a little formic acid when I find any mites, well with the brood declining there has been a mite explosion and the formic is very busy at the moment.


I am sure that it is just my misunderstanding here.....but it strikes me that this is backward. If one waits until they have finished making winter bees and then test and treat....hasn't the most serious damage already been done? 
Again....maybe I'm misreading.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

NewBeeLady said:


> Really? Interesting.
> 
> I can understand the slow down, but to stop completely? I will watch them very carefully for a couple of weeks, then I should know for certain.
> 
> ...


Jim Lyon is one of the best members here. You'd do well to listen to him 

It's petered down to about nothing up here and I'd suspect even more so farther north. Not really anything to worry about at this point as there's really nothing you can do to fix it. 
Make sure they've got enough food and do whatever you're going to do for winter and let it ride.


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## NewBeeLady (May 20, 2014)

beemandan said:


> I am sure that it is just my misunderstanding here.....but it strikes me that this is backward. If one waits until they have finished making winter bees and then test and treat....hasn't the most serious damage already been done?
> Again....maybe I'm misreading.


Beemandan,

I didn't wait to treat.. I did a sugar roll test in late August, got a count of 2 per hive with using quite a few bees. Put in the Apivar strips Sept 1 - removed Oct 16. I will treat with Oxyalic (sp?) sometime in early Dec. So, I think my mite counts are under control. 

NBL


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

NewBeeLady said:


> Beemandan,
> 
> I didn't wait to treat..


I was replying to a post by member johno. There's a quote with his name at the top of my last post. 
Good luck.


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## NewBeeLady (May 20, 2014)

beemandan said:


> I was replying to a post by member johno. There's a quote with his name at the top of my last post.
> Good luck.


Oh, sorry, my mistake. inch:


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## johno (Dec 4, 2011)

Beemandan, I have been treating with formic on the OH throughout the summer with fair mite drops, but just saying when the brood stops all of a sudden there are lots of mites. So your mite counts in the langs might be low after a series of OA treatment but then really spike when the brood comes to an end. Normally I do a final OAV in December but I think I should do it earlier.
Johno


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