# Expand this topic to include Sustainability???



## MapMan (May 24, 2007)

Hello, Mabe:

I enjoyed reading your discussion on the merits of changing this forum's name. Yes, I think that many of us have entered or are close to entering the second half of our lives, but many folks aren't ready to take on the challenge of sustainable living. 

For many, that would mean the dreaded word "hardship", and in beekeeping parlance that would mean not using any chemicals (including fogging with FGMO), not using sugar as a substitute food for the bee's honey in colony management; ie. true sustainability in beekeeping would be to have a management style to allow the bee colonies to thrive on their own, without too much "artificial" interference by the beekeeper. That would also mean that we would have to spend a lot more time inspecting our hives to keep a handle on pests and disease, and sometimes allow for the failure of a colony due to drought and dearths of nectar.

I don't think that many are willing to make that total move to true sustainability in terms of beekeeping. Or, am I wrong?

MM

I do think that many folks that are beekeepers do so because they love the natural world, and it would be great if they had a "Homesteading" forum on this site to share in other topics of rural and sustainable living.


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## mike haney (Feb 9, 2007)

*homesteading*

i agree with MapMan. many beeks live on small acerage and would enjoy this topic


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## naturebee (Dec 25, 2004)

MapMan said:


> ,,,That would also mean that we would have to spend a lot more time inspecting our hives to keep a handle on pests and disease, and sometimes allow for the failure of a colony due to drought and dearths of nectar.
> 
> I don't think that many are willing to make that total move to true sustainability in terms of beekeeping. Or, am I wrong?


Hello Map Man,

Actually, moving to a more sustainable system of beekeeping has allowed me to spend MUCH less time inspecting colonies for disease and pests, because it simply is not needed. Also, no need to let a colony die due to drought or nectar dearth, they can be sustained by moving stores from stronger colonies if need be. 

Making the move to sustainability required that I eliminate all commercial stock which was dependant on treatments for survival, and replace with feral stock that needs no such propping up. 


Joe Waggle ~ Derry, PA ‘Bees Gone Wild Apiaries' 
FeralBeeProject.com 
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/H...eybeeArticles/


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

*There should be more interest...*



Mabe said:


> Seems like the buzzword these days for organically produced products is "Sustainable". This seems to be a new/old spinoff of "Permaculture". Many of us old hippie wannabees are veering off in those directions as we enter the second halves of our lives. Call it a quality of life change, since we're trying to come up with a replacement word for "retirement". Who can afford to retire now-a-days?
> 
> Anyway, rambling aside, would we get some more good discussions going if we renamed this area "Biological and Sustainable Beekeeping" (or something like that implying our stewardship of the earth)?
> 
> ...


Hi Mabe,

I wish you had received more replies to your suggestion... 

As a 53 year old newbie, I'm certainly among the "Half-Lifers" who would like to see an improvement in how we live. There seems to be a large number of members who are beginning to practice more sustainable methods and I believe they may appreciate an area of their own to exchange ideas.

It was only this past year that I heard the term Permaculture for the first time. Working in the petroleum transportation business I was more familier with "Peak Oil". And in recent months some of us have learned about "Food Miles". The book "Deep Economy" by Bill McKibben could help to change the way some people look at our world. 


Anyway, after over 20 years I'm bitten once again... and greatful that resources such as this forum are available.

Best regards,

"BeeCurious"


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## spunky (Nov 14, 2006)

*bees*

I think this part of the board is fine as it is. You get to cutting to many fine lines adding the other topic. We have another section of this board for open discussions. 


regards
Brad


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## Mabe (Mar 22, 2005)

Thanks for the replies so far. I guess I'm looking for something that we aren't doing here yet, although we touch on it in many of our discussion areas. "Homesteading" is a wonderful idea for the topic, but since we are all beekeepers I wondered if we could work with the relationships with bees.

I'm trying not to use chemicals with the exception of those naturally produced and am trying to integrate the bees into the other areas of our existance on this land...the chickens clean up the pasture, the manure fuels the compost pile, the compost fertilizes the gardens and landscape, the huge variety of native plantings provide nectar to the bees, the bees pollinate the plants and give us huge harvests, the animals eat quite a bit of the harvest, we don't need to spend money to alleviate our stress because we have our Zen place here...just sit by the hives at night with that lovely glass of wine and listen to the colonies roaring and breathe in the buttery warm fragrance of curing honey..........................

It's becoming obvious that our reality and the way that we deal with this earth and our bees must change if we plan to be on this earth into the future. I think beekeepers, gardeners, and organic farmers are the people who will make some of the first moves. I hope I'm still here to see the changes!

Mabe


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## naturebee (Dec 25, 2004)

spunky said:


> I think this part of the board is fine as it is. You get to cutting to many fine lines adding the other topic. We have another section of this board for open discussions.
> 
> 
> regards
> Brad


Barry, ‘as far as I recall’ stated in the past that his intent for ‘biological beekeeping’ list was to have a place to discuss the keeping of bees without the use of treatments.

The problem is that biological beekeeping is usually defined as the use of biological derived treatments such as essential oils, BT, and other plant derived pesticides. The biological beekeeping thread IMO has NEVER lived up to this expectation, and I doubt adding new threads would achieve this task without strict censorship which unfortunately is often subjected to enforcement by opinion. So IMO, those wanting to discuss totally treatment free beekeeping still do not have a place to discuss it on this board.

I see beekeeping is increasingly being defined as a cottage industry as it once was during colonial times. Homesteading Beekeepers would fill a nitch for those abandoning the factory mentality of beekeeping and returning to this cottage industry beekeeping philosophy. The resurgence of the cottage industry IMO is beneficial to the recovery of a sustainable honeybee population and therefore may be a nitch probably worth providing on the board.

Joe Waggle ~ Derry, PA 
‘Bees Gone Wild Apiaries' 
FeralBeeProject.com


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

My question is, what prevents someone from discussing here the full range of biological beekeeping as spelled out on the main page?

"Discussion of information and application concerning the keeping of bees and production of honey using biological methodology. We seek to understand how the bees operate biologically and then formulate management methods that cooperate, as much as possible, with the bees biology. The Yin Yang of Beekeeping."

I personally see this as a place for those "in process" or "working towards" bio beekeeping and those who are at the far end of the spectrum who would more likely fit the label "organic" and hold to strict guidelines. This has always been a point of friction within this "camp" of beekeepers. I place myself in this camp. I have always desired there to be a level of grace, understanding and support given to those pursuing, but not yet there, to my level of methodology.

I'd like to see this issue addressed and discussed here before I would think about creating yet another separate group that I'm not sure how it would differ.

I'm listening. I'm all for giving everyone a place to fit in in this community.

- Barry


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## naturebee (Dec 25, 2004)

---This has always been a point of friction within this "camp" of beekeepers. I place myself in this camp. (B)

Hello Barry,

Oh, I’m not affiliated with the camp anymore. I broke off awhile back due to the pressure and distractions. I still care deeply for Dee and consider her a dear friend of mine and my splitting had noting to do with our friendship, but I decided it better I be a free sprit now as far as the camp goes. 

--I have always desired there to be a level of grace, understanding and support given to those pursuing, but not yet there, to my level of methodology. (B)

Yes, this is important!

--I'm listening. I'm all for giving everyone a place to fit in in this community. (B)

Was attempting to illustrate that no matter what the name, you cannot control how it will be interpreted by others. That’s all I was trying to show with my post. Homestead group would have great potential due to the trends now occurring with more and more environmentally conscious cottage industry beekeepers growing in numbers. And IMO, these folks are different in incorporating a variety of produce from their lands in an environmentally friendly manner. BUT it will probably duplicate most of the talk occurring else ware. 

Best Wishes,
Joe


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## mountainvalleybee (May 13, 2007)

*ok*

just call it let alone beekeeping


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

I can't wait for spring to get here. Seems like winter bee fever has set in early this year.


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## buckbee (Dec 2, 2004)

Interesting thread.
I am actually quite uneasy with the term 'sustainable' as it has become corrupted and abused by the likes of Monsanto, Bayer et al, who seem to think it means roughly the same as 'dependent on the chemicals we want to sell you'. Check out their web sites (which I will not advertise here) to see what I mean.
On the other hand, the term really should be reclaimed from the corporate thieves and ad agency spin doctors and returned to its original meaning as 'a system that can be sustained without artificial support or interference' (or something along those lines.
I would be happy to see homestead beekeeping being discussed here, but I'm not sure it requires a name change - just open up the subject and discuss!


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