# Swarm lures



## WilliamsHoneyBees (Feb 17, 2010)

Thanks Grant. I will be looking into this for my traps. Do you know what the main ingredients are?


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## Grant (Jun 12, 2004)

Pheromones 9.5%
Natural Attractants 42.5%
Inert Ingredients 48%

That's what the label tells me.

Grant
Jackson, MO


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## WilliamsHoneyBees (Feb 17, 2010)

Thanks grant. I e-mailed them as well. I'm really interested in this. I use straight LGO with good success. Always looking for cheap ways to improve and a pint at $16 is cheap! :thumbsup:


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## slickbrightspear (Jan 9, 2009)

Very cool


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## dcross (Jan 20, 2003)

It says it's active for 3-5 days, how often do you refresh it?


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## JRH (Dec 30, 2010)

dcross said:


> It says it's active for 3-5 days, how often do you refresh it?


This is what it says: "Apply 2 qts/acre in early morning for best results. 2 1/2 gallon will treat 5 acres, while the 16 oz. bottle will treat 1/4 acres. Once applied, Bee-Scent will remain active for three to five days under favorable weather conditions.

Not exactly the same concentration as saturating a paper towel inside a plastic bag.


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## dcross (Jan 20, 2003)

I'm still curious how often, if at all, he refreshes them


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## Grant (Jun 12, 2004)

dcross said:


> I'm still curious how often, if at all, he refreshes them


Sorry this wasn't clear. If you use this product, as intended, it lasts 3-5 days, weather permitting. But I don't use it per the instructions. I'm using it as an undiluted, protected, slow-release concentrate.

In my swarm traps I refresh the lure when I catch a swarm. When a swarm moves in, they start tearing the plastic bag apart and shredding the paper towel.

By the end of my swarm season, which runs mid-April to late June, I bring home several traps that failed to catch a swarm. The baggy still smells (to me) like swarm lure, but obviously it has mostly evaporated.

Perhaps a more absorbant material would hold the lure smell longer, maybe release it slower, but I don't have seem to have a long enough season to warrant refreshing the lure before the end of the season. By the end of the swarm season I'm making summer splits and I need these brood frames so I retrieve my traps and toss out the lures. I will have my bees from my backyard circling the trash can.

I also remember an admonishment I received from another poster last year. He chided me for thinking that my sense of smell was as good as a bee. Just because I can't detect any smell of a swarm lure doesn't mean the bee can't.

Many years ago I was using this product to refill the little bitty tubes of commercial swarm lure available from any of the commercial suppliers. That was too tedious.

Grant
Jackson, MO


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## bk21701 (May 22, 2009)

After reading the description from the company's website, its explained as a foraging attractant not so much a swarm lure.

Has anyone gotten a reply from the company as to its use as a swarm lure?


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## WilliamsHoneyBees (Feb 17, 2010)

bk21701 said:


> After reading the description from the company's website, its explained as a foraging attractant not so much a swarm lure.
> 
> Has anyone gotten a reply from the company as to its use as a swarm lure?


No reply yet, but it's the weekend. I basically asked them what the main ingredients were and if it did in fact contain the nasonov pheromone.


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## JRH (Dec 30, 2010)

The question was asked: "Has anyone gotten a reply from the company as to its use as a swarm lure?"

Here's a pretty good answer from someone with experience using it as a swarm lure:



Grant said:


> I don't know if it works to attract bees to pollinate crops (you dilute it and spray it on the crop) and I don't know how long it lasts, but it works GREAT as a swarm lure.


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## dixie1 (Jun 27, 2010)

I'm a first year beek.....can you tell me what "LGO" is ?


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## USCBeeMan (Feb 7, 2009)

Lemon Grass Oil


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## bk21701 (May 22, 2009)

JRH - Yes I saw that .. 

I also like to hear input from the manufacturer as well as the end user. After all they know whats in the product.


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## dixie1 (Jun 27, 2010)

thanks uscbeeman....of course...lemon grass oil.....i don't know why i couldn't figure that out, i've been reading up on lemon grass oil for this next spring..wanting to use it in a swarm catch....where are you getting it ?


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## bk21701 (May 22, 2009)

I sprayed some of my honey b healthy inside a nuc box and caught one of my own swarms last year. HBH is full of LGO


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## USCBeeMan (Feb 7, 2009)

dixie1 said:


> thanks uscbeeman....of course...lemon grass oil.....i don't know why i couldn't figure that out, i've been reading up on lemon grass oil for this next spring..wanting to use it in a swarm catch....where are you getting it ?


 
I purchase all of my essential oils on ebay.


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## WilliamsHoneyBees (Feb 17, 2010)

Yep I buy my lemon grass oil on ebay too.


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## Fogducker (May 6, 2010)

I just bought about an ounce for #3.87 delivered------e-bay.

Fog


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## USCBeeMan (Feb 7, 2009)

Talked with IPM today (via email). 

Ask them the difference between bee-scent and their bee lure. Bee-scent is not as concentrated as the bee lure and will not last very long when applied as directed. (See Grant above) The bee lure is pure nasecerov (sp?) comes in 2 oz setup that you just open and put in the trap. *Lure is good for the entire season.*

Going to purchase a pint of the scent and 2 lures to test out this spring. Called and no one answered the phone. Tried to fax in my order and 
"this number is not valid or is out of service".


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## Grant (Jun 12, 2004)

bk21701 said:


> After reading the description from the company's website, its explained as a foraging attractant not so much a swarm lure.
> 
> Has anyone gotten a reply from the company as to its use as a swarm lure?


This is like a lot of products that work for something other than what they are "registered" for, kind of like powdered sugar is not sold for varroa control and any sugar company might freak out if you told them what you are doing.

This product is not listed nor registered as a swarm lure, but it works as such. I'd be interested to hear what they say, but whatever they say sure won't diminish my results!

Grant
Jackson, MO


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## USCBeeMan (Feb 7, 2009)

Here is the reply I got back from the company:

The honey bee lure is the concentrated nasonov pheromone. This is also put in the bee scent in a diluted amount. The bee scent will attract the bees into the crop so I guess it will also work in the swarm trap, or so some bee keepers have told me this week. The bee lure will last a full swarm period and the bee scent once applied in the field lasts 3-5 days. I would guess if left in the conc. as it comes from the bottle it will work in a swarm trap but I have no research to document how long this work compared to the actual honey bee lure.
Jim


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## Colino (May 28, 2013)

Hello Grant:
Do you seal the zip lock bag and the Bees detect it through the bag or do you leave it open?
Thanks


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## SunWorks (Dec 8, 2010)

Colino said:


> Do you seal the zip lock bag and the Bees detect it through the bag or do you leave it open?


I understand "_assuming_" is dangerous, but here is a situation where believing it is sealed makes sense. For it to last the amount of time described by Grant, the fact that he mentions a zip-lock bag vs. a non-sealing bag, etc... I plan on zipping my version shut.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

MB said they use to use lemon pledge to attract swarms before they change recipe.

If Grant can still smell it than it's still there, a zip-lock will keep most of it contained and release it slowly just like others are doing it with LGO.

Grant what percent traps caught swarms for the last few years using bee sent, how many traps do you have out.


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## SunWorks (Dec 8, 2010)

FlowerPlanter said:


> ... release it slowly just like others are doing it with LGO...


Are you saying that others are putting LGO on an absorbent (like a paper towel) and then zipping it closed in a zip-lock bag to extend the effectiveness of LGO?

Or do you know *how* people are extending the time the LGO is effective as a lure?

Thank you.


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## ozebee (Nov 29, 2012)

Beeks - if you are into swarm collecting, sign up into the new site www.swarmpatrol.com and lets make it work for us.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

>Are you saying that others are putting LGO on an absorbent (like a paper towel) and then zipping it closed in a zip-lock bag to extend the effectiveness of LGO?
Yes 

>Or do you know *how* people are extending the time the LGO is effective as a lure?
LGO evaporates very quickly and I believe the pheromones do too. When you buy swarm lures they come in small plastic containers that slowly release the lure, just like a zip lock.

Some just dip a q-tip and put it and refresh it every two weeks. 

I have both, some commercial plastic vile with nasonov pheromone and some with LGO in a small snack size zip lock with a small piece paper towel. I break q-tips in half dip it in LGO grab it with a 1" x 1" paper towel and drop it in the zip lock, and never refresh it.

I have caught the same percentage swarms with the homemade lure as commercial ones that are very expensive. Will not buy more. But I had to try to know for sure.

The biggest difference I have found is used brood comb even pieces glued in to a frame. And the funny thing is that some swarms did not even use the empty brood comb, they just built on the foundationless frames.

I think there is a slight increase with the location you pick, find one that stands out even just a little. Like the tree by itself, one at the end of the fence row, a high point on a hill or ridge.


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## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

I catch lots of swarms. I find "old comb" is the most effective lure, followed by slum-gum soaked onto burlap. 

LGO is nice-smelling, attracts both scouts and foragers. In most cases, LGO alone won't induce a swarm to colonize a sterile, new box or pot, when a "old" comb alternative exists in the scout range. In a semi-natural woodland, the bees are going colonize the treeholes before entering a recently manufactured box. You need to make the trap resemble an old hive location. You are competing against better real-estate.

I read recently someone speculated that Wax Moth has a odor, and the bees find that attractive. Don't have data to support that -- as they are induced by the slum-gum -- but there is a definite preference for re-colonizing old colony spots. ((Survivor hives, touted endlessly by the TF guru's, are simply re-colonized nests in a meta-population of swarms and mite-induced extinctions -- at least in my 'neighborhood'). Wax moths are certainly part of the "sterizilation" crew that removes old, diseased comb and prepares a colony site for re-occupation. 

I pull black brood comb (about 4 years of use) and reuse the spent comb as swarm lure. I cut much of it off the frame -- new swarms can build comb at a prodigious rate. Cutting it off generates more flight and cluster space in the trap -- the video's of scouts show them measuring volume, and having open space (in my logical extension) allows them to overestimate the volume offered.

I stack nucs to generate volume, with only frames in the upper half. The new swarms build from the top, and the lower (open) nuc does not get wild comb between my swarm checks. You can use medium depth frames for the same reason.

I reserve the Queen Juice (dead queens in alchohol) for settling a split or collected swarm.


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## Colino (May 28, 2013)

FlowerPlanter:
>I think there is a slight increase with the location you pick, find one that stands out even just a little. Like the tree by itself, one at the end of the fence row, a high point on a hill or ridge.<

Its no problem for me to pick out something that stands out a little. Here on the bald prairie a tree is a tourist attraction. Both of my hives were caught in isolated patches of Caragana (also called Siberian Peashrub) shelter belt with a few trees sprinkled in.


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## Colino (May 28, 2013)

JW:
I'm new to this, what is slum-gum? Also how do you tell old honey comb from old brood comb? It all looks the same to me. Thank you.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

This page has an interesting photo of a frame with both "old" and "new" brood comb, along with an explanation of why the different appearance.
http://www.honeybeesuite.com/tag/cocoons/

Note that _brood _comb will accumulate cocoons, but _honey _comb has no cocoons.


And from the same site, an explanation of _slumgum_:
http://www.honeybeesuite.com/tag/slumgum/


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## Colino (May 28, 2013)

Thanks Rader I'm on it you're so kind and your knowledge is greatly appreciated.


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## charlesoneill (Dec 23, 2013)

How do you apply it ? A cue tip ? How long does it last in the hive? 2 weeks? 
Thanks, Charlie


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