# count the deadouts?



## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

To get the average production per hive you need to count all hives that contributed to the gross production of HONEY.

If a hive became a deadout before producing surplus honey then it shouldn't be counted in the average.

If it died after producing surplus honey then it would be counted.

If you start the year with 500 hives and for swarm control you created 250 splits from them to use(the splits) for honey production then your hive total for the average would be 750 hives.

If those 250 splits are recombined with the original 500 hives at the end of the year you could argue that you used 500 hives for honey production but you truely used 750 hives producing honey.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Woodside said:


> I use the number of hives I had at the beginning of the year. I


Do you mean the number of hives you had on Jan. 1? Or what do you mean by "at the beginning of the year"?


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## Woodside (Aug 10, 2010)

Not jan 1, what i mean by beginning of year is after they come back from almonds and ive made all the splits Ill make. So probably the start is around May 1st give or take


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

My answer is, I count the number of hives that produced honey, as Beeslave said, and do the math after all of the honey is extracted.

Dop you want a production hive average or a HERD average? Do you want to count only the colonies that produced or do you want to use the highest number of hives that were alive that year?

And who are you doing the math for anyway? Yourself or to impress your friends.

I really question queenking's method of per hive average and would l;ike to know how she/he gets an average of 150 lbs per hive. Was that one hive that produced that amount or what?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Woodside said:


> Not jan 1, what i mean by beginning of year is after they come back from almonds


Yeah, that makes sense. So, do you think that you will count all of the hives in their yards on that date and then after the honey is extracted do the math or will you only count hives that you actually took honey off of? One will produce a higher average number of course.


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## Woodside (Aug 10, 2010)

Yeah if i had 2000 hives in the yards may 15th, id take the total honey lb and divide it by 2000. I sorta see it as a real pound per hive. If you had 1000 hives and half of them died, yet you say your average pph was 60 lbs, just seems false to me. Yet I can understand only counting producing hives because it gives more of an accurate measure for what the area can produce without the factor of hives lost. Yet as a business I feel like dividing by ALL your hives is more accurate from a financial view. But thats just my two cents, what does everyone else think?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Not that I am everyone else and I'm not trying to be snooty, but how do you count the drone layer that produced 100 pounds of honey or the deadout(like the one i found today) that had a full deep of honey for me to take.

I think we all have our own ways of doing this and when we compare our data w/ each other, the method of calculation will reveal something. I'm not sure what, but something.


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

I don't think that it really matters what method you use to figure out your average. More importantly is that the same method is used from year to year, so that you can compare between seasons. Ultimately it doen't really matter what the number is. More importantly is how many dollars are in a bank account after the honey is sold and everybody has been paid.

Jean-Marc


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

I do three different averages
1. the whole lot of bees going into the honey flow
2. the strong hives VS the weaker hives. This way I can also compare each year how many weak hives i have
3. per yard to see how each yard does each year. Some yards are
perpetually not that great. That helps to make the decision to move the yard the next year.


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## 123456789 (May 24, 2009)

I'm just interested in the total amount of honey produced. I never break it down to a per hive average....... just sayin'


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

So you are more of a per year average man, eh?


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## Woodside (Aug 10, 2010)

well this got me thinkin.. I think all the averages are useful. When you are talkin to your buddies you should do only producing hives, and then maybe add a few lbs to the total, haha. But on a serious note, each type of average can tell you some piece of information the other average doesn't.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Remember, figures don't lie, but liars can figure. 

Take all claims w/ a grain of salt and really, what does your average mean to me other than "I wonder if he actually did what he says.", and "How did he do it?"


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Lets say one beekeeper buys 100 3 lb packages, and collects 10,000 lbs of honey. Another beekeeper buys 100 packages, manipulates frames, splits in early June to 200 hives, and collects 20,000 lbs of honey. What is the average per hive in each situation? Does it matter?



Roland


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Of course you can work the numbers how you please, I suppose if it inflates someones ego a little to work off a lower number so be it, I usually think in terms of barrels per location. If one insists on lbs. per hive then the only meaningful number is the one using the number of hives for which you have input costs and that would mean using your beginning hive numbers, I know I dont feel any better when I end up stacking up a number of queenless hives even though at the end of the year the fewer remaining hives which have benefited as a result end up with a better average.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

And then there are some peope who don't know what the word "average" means. This is not in reference to any post on this Thread.

I have had guys who have told me of their tremendous hive average, when in fact what they are talking about is the one hive that made alot of honey while the others in the yard didn't.


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