# nuc sales profit margin



## DLMKA (Feb 7, 2012)

Not wanting to get down into the nitty gritty here but kind of curious what folks that are selling nucs make in terms of profit margin. I'm wanting to start rearing my own queens and manage nuc production like Mike Palmer using dinks as worker and comb donors and add quality queens. I only want to add in direct costs (woodenware, nuc box, feed, queen production cost). I'm going to try this on a small scale with 30 nucs and see how it goes. If I sell an overwintered nuc for $150 what percentage of that will be used for supplies necessary to make a saleable nuc? For simplicity sake let's assume 100% winter survival, I can figure in lost opportunity cost from there.


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## AugeredIn (Jun 12, 2013)

I guess it depends on whether you are asking that as a hobbyist or actually accounting for net income as a business would.

We are trying to limit ourselves to the 10-20 hive number. The last couple of years have been really kind to us in terms of survivability. We have had tremendous increase just from keeping the hives from swarming by splitting off queens. This has meant that we have had nucs to sell the last couple of years. We sell them for $100 to $125 each and they go quickly. We don't sell the boxes, just five good frames of brood and stores. As hobbyists, our only "real" cost is the cost of the frames. The queens are free. Of course it is a hobby for us. We only sell the nucs to not incur the cost of additional woodenware to support the splits long term.

I guess if you get to the point where you are thinking about actually making money on the bees you need to account for your time and the cost of woodenware, feed and treatments. I doubt you would be happy with the accounting results if you really total up all the costs.


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

Just do the math. 

Frame cost or exchange?
Feed cost if any.
Nuc box cost, (cardboard or wood) return?
Queen replacement if customer complains?

Nucs go here in SF from $125 to $150


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## DLMKA (Feb 7, 2012)

I'm doing this on a hobby basis so I'm not counting my time. Just the money that goes into equipment and feed. I realize that if I counted in my time the hourly pay would be a pittance.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

AugeredIn said:


> I doubt you would be happy with the accounting results if you really total up all the costs.


I'd think YOU w/b surprised with the accounting results.....


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## KPeacock (Jan 29, 2013)

I'm looking ahead to next year for nuc production on a small scale and i figure about $10 for the wooden nuc box, $5 for the frames. A package of bees runs $85+ around here, so $100 seems like it would cover all of my costs and the bees don't actually cost me the $85 even figuring in feeding and what not. So, if I sell them for $100, it won't cost me anything, and will cover some of my other bee related costs. I've never seen nucs sell as low as $100, so i think folks would be happy to buy them at that. Heck, I'd buy them at that price. It seems like a good deal for overwintered bees.

My nucs for sale would essentially be "extra" bees above the number of nucs that i want to maintain. My goal is not to make money on them but to be a source for folks getting into beekeeping. We all win that way.


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## TWall (May 19, 2010)

You put $5 for frames but, what price do you put on drawn comb?

Tom


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## AugeredIn (Jun 12, 2013)

snl said:


> I'd think YOU w/b surprised with the accounting results.....


Interesting. You think there is a break even point or do you think it is profitable from the first nuc?


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

I used to make up and sell nucs on a small scale. (a few dozen a year). I bought the nuc boxes and frames and they were part of the deal, they cost about 15.00 total plus time, which is free... I quit because if you calculate the honey crop vs the value of the nuc honey is a much better return. At the time I was selling nucs at $120.00, but could get $260.00 for the average honey crop that nuc would make.


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## cheezer32 (Feb 3, 2009)

I figure 25$ for equipment, (box, frames, foundation) 10$ for feed, and the queens are free since I raise my own. So I have 35$ in a nuc, a lot of people mention the opportunity cost and time, I don't bother with that. I don't want to produce honey or other stuff so even if I made slightly more per hive from that it wouldn't matter. Also like the mention of drawn comb and whatnot, I'm not worried about that, because at the end of the day I spent 35$ and that's it. I don't run enough hives to figure in my time at this point, I do know however that my time per nuc is very low. The same thing goes for rearing my queens.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

I do not consider it a profit margin situation when it comes to nucs, bees or even honey. I consider it more as something that has a certain value. I have worked, invested and gain the knowledge to successfully produce it. I could write a song and accomplish the same thing. I have the right to what it is worth. even art or the written word has the same sort of value.

More importantly bees for me are not something I purchase mark up and resell which is more the typical profit margin scenario.

I set the price for nucs at what the value of it is. that can be found simply by finding out what others are selling them for. You can find the value of the components and add them up. Included in that value is the consideration of your time, labor and skill.


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## Bees of SC (Apr 12, 2013)

$25.00 for the equipment [ box and frames ] ??? What kind op top and bottom do you put on them?


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

Bees of SC said:


> $25.00 for the equipment [ box and frames ] ??? What kind op top and bottom do you put on them?


Not what type of top and bottom, but where you buy them  I pay $5.50 for a nuc box, 2.50 for the top, 4.50 for the bottom, .95 per frame and 1.00 for plastic foundation. About 22.00 for a complete nuc currently.


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## cheezer32 (Feb 3, 2009)

When I sell a nuc I sell them with a normal 5 frame wooden box, a migratory top, and a reversible bottom. I buy it assembled, I also buy my frames assembled from the same source, then I buy rite cell from Mann Lake.


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## DLMKA (Feb 7, 2012)

I'm not going to put packages in a nuc and sell it, I don't think that's right or fair to your customer. Just hoping to be able to be able to supply local beekeepers with a quality nuc with queens from locally adapted stock. I just don't want to walk away poorer.


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

DLMKA said:


> I just don't want to walk away poorer.


 :lpf::lpf::lpf: We are talking about keeping bees right


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## rhaldridge (Dec 17, 2012)

bluegrass said:


> I used to make up and sell nucs on a small scale. (a few dozen a year). I bought the nuc boxes and frames and they were part of the deal, they cost about 15.00 total plus time, which is free... I quit because if you calculate the honey crop vs the value of the nuc honey is a much better return. At the time I was selling nucs at $120.00, but could get $260.00 for the average honey crop that nuc would make.


I'm no expert, but isn't that a lot of honey to expect from a nuc in its first year?


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

bluegrass said:


> At the time I was selling nucs at $120.00, but could get $260.00 for the average honey crop that nuc would make.


Wow! How many lbs of honey would that nuc produce and what was your selling price per lb?


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

Would that surprise be a good or bad surprise


snl said:


> I'd think YOU w/b surprised with the accounting results.....


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## Matt903 (Apr 8, 2013)

Ok what am I missing here? Around here I can make splits in late June and July, overwinter the nuc, and sell it in the spring as an overwintered nuc which should push the price up. I think $30 for equipment is not unreasonable, and raising my own queens, and $10 for feed. So if I raise my own queens, I have $40 and time in the nuc. Then I sell it for $150 come spring. I don t think $110 profit margin is nothing to sneer about. I guess it depends on how much extra time you have to put in them and how many you sell. I don't hear of many people having nucs left over, but even if you did, you have an extra hive for yourself for $40, plus the honey it will produce. If you can overwinter, it sounds like a win win anyway you look at it. Any criticism? Am I looking at this the wrong way?


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

Unless you cut your own frames and go foundation less how can you cost frames at $1 a piece. Here packages sell for $177-190. I guess the math varies from place to place.



TWall said:


> You put $5 for frames but, what price do you put on drawn comb?
> 
> Tom


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

The Coates nuc pattern gets 4 nucs..not including frames..from 1 sheet of ply. You can many frames from a 2x4 if time is not a factor...and then go foundation less.





Bees of SC said:


> $25.00 for the equipment [ box and frames ] ??? What kind op
> 
> 
> top and bottom do you put on them?


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## Robndixie (Oct 20, 2012)

if the going rate is 125.00 why would you dump them at 100.00? demand is probably never met so selling them at market price is more than fair and you get to make a little more.


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## DLMKA (Feb 7, 2012)

Robndixie said:


> if the going rate is 125.00 why would you dump them at 100.00? demand is probably never met so selling them at market price is more than fair and you get to make a little more.


I'm not sure where the $100 is coming from, I stated in the OP that I was going to sell overwintered nucs for $150, maybe $160 after I have a better idea on what time and expense related to queen rearing. Spring nucs and nucs shipped from down south go for about $125, I would imagine that an overwintered nuc is worth a $25-35 premium. I also plan on selling nucs on medium frames which is a niche left unfilled in a lot of markets including mine.


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## bbrowncods (Oct 10, 2012)

Bee club price for this area is 100 for a medium and 125 for a deep. Bring your own box, and no exchange for the frames. The nuc has roughly 10K bees (FULL) - 2 frames of brood, 2 frames of honey, 1 frame of pollen. These are splits from overwintered hives - no swarms. If you are not a member it is roughly 35 more (encourages people to support the club).

Cost is then for the frames/foundation.


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## lazy shooter (Jun 3, 2011)

The better question is: How many nucs will you have to sell to make more money than you would on a part time, minimum wage job? It is hard for me to think that you could net more that 50 bucks a nuc, and that is not getting paid for your time. There is precious little profit individual packages of bees or nuts. It will take many hives to make any meaningful profit. At 50 bucks profit per nuc, a hundred nucs will only earn $5,000.00. 

Enjoy your time spent with the bees and think of it in altruistic terms.


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## Deepsouth (Feb 21, 2012)

I think the further south you are the better profit margin you can have. 
My Profit margin on nucs is about $100.
I make plywood boxes for $4 a piece. 5 frames with Foundation $10. I make 30 queens at a time which really takes little time to do after you get the hang of it. 
I make my nucs towards the end of the spring honey flow so I dont lose any honey production. 
I can make a split in minutes.
I usally dont have to feed them much due to our great fall flow most years. 
They overwinter without any problems in Louisiana.
And then I sell them in the spring for $150


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## Robndixie (Oct 20, 2012)

DLMKA said:


> I'm not sure where the $100 is coming from, I stated in the OP that I was going to sell overwintered nucs for $150, maybe $160 after I have a better idea on what time and expense related to queen rearing. Spring nucs and nucs shipped from down south go for about $125, I would imagine that an overwintered nuc is worth a $25-35 premium. I also plan on selling nucs on medium frames which is a niche left unfilled in a lot of markets including mine.


i should have replied with a quote. see post 6. my question was directed toward that.


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## Robndixie (Oct 20, 2012)

Deepsouth said:


> I think the further south you are the better profit margin you can have.
> My Profit margin on nucs is about $100.
> I make plywood boxes for $4 a piece. 5 frames with Foundation $10. I make 30 queens at a time which really takes little time to do after you get the hang of it.
> I make my nucs towards the end of the spring honey flow so I dont lose any honey production.
> ...


how are you raising your queens? i think queen rearing is fairly labor intensive when you figure in building cell finishers etc. there are a few hours in getting a good round of queens. it's the reason i can't see selling a good queen for less than 30 dollars.


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## sbin (Jul 29, 2013)

My goal is to make and over winter 2 nucs.
Bought 2 nucs last last year that grew into hives and both over wintered.
No good input on profit but for me some over wintered nucs would be priceless.

Reading is knowledge
Doing is power


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

lazy shooter said:


> The better question is: How many nucs will you have to sell to make more money than you would on a part time, minimum wage job? It is hard for me to think that you could net more that 50 bucks a nuc, and that is not getting paid for your time. There is precious little profit individual packages of bees or nuts. It will take many hives to make any meaningful profit. At 50 bucks profit per nuc, a hundred nucs will only earn $5,000.00.
> 
> Enjoy your time spent with the bees and think of it in altruistic terms.


This may be hard to believe, but to many folks an extra $5000.00 (or $1000) per year IS meaningful. And earning it on your own terms instead of at a part time minimum wage job is meaningful too. And just for the sake of argument let's say that money is no object - there is still nothing wrong with enjoying the fact that your hobby generates income instead of being a bottom less money pit like most are. 

All other things being equal I'm pretty confident there is more satisfaction in being the guy with bees for sale every spring than in having to buy bees every spring.


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## pannu96 (Mar 7, 2012)

In late July, split a double deep into four nucs. Sell these for $600 in the spring if all goes well. Split again the following year in spring and get your hive back. This is only if you don't care about honey production. I plan to split my doubles into four this spring and again into 4 in late July. It's only affective if you graft your own cells and feed syrup in summer.


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## KPeacock (Jan 29, 2013)

I tossed out the $100 figure only to indicate what I thought would be a decent return for me. The OP had a higher figure. As I mentioned, nucs i plan to sell are any extras beyond what I need to keep my hive count where I want it. The only costs I referred to are actual costs incurred, not time or vlaue of drawn comb, or lost honey production, or what have you. Any honey I have beyond a couple of quarts is surplus that I don't need and just give away as gifts, or tokens of appreciation. I just keep bees becasue i like tehm and find them fascinating. I'm not in this for any financial gains, material rewards, or anything of that sort. It's simply a hobby. I'm happy putting in a reasonable amount of money as I find it entertaining. For me selling nucs is little more than offloading extra bees in exchange for some money that I'll invariably buy more bee stuff with. It just limits the amount of money I shell out for this hobby. I'm sure some have similar ideas on this, and I"m just as sure many others have a differing view.


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

rhaldridge said:


> I'm no expert, but isn't that a lot of honey to expect from a nuc in its first year?





snl said:


> Wow! How many lbs of honey would that nuc produce and what was your selling price per lb?


 I get 12 bucks a quart. The super combs are already drawn out and their production is down from what a full colony over wintered can make, but not by much..40 lbs or so. I get honey crops off of first year packages by sticking them on drawn comb... last fall some of my first year packs gave up 30-40 lbs of honey on the fall flow and still put enough away to winter. 



Matt903 said:


> Ok what am I missing here? Around here I can make splits in late June and July, overwinter the nuc, and sell it in the spring as an overwintered nuc which should push the price up. I think $30 for equipment is not unreasonable, and raising my own queens, and $10 for feed. So if I raise my own queens, I have $40 and time in the nuc. Then I sell it for $150 come spring. I don t think $110 profit margin is nothing to sneer about. I guess it depends on how much extra time you have to put in them and how many you sell. I don't hear of many people having nucs left over, but even if you did, you have an extra hive for yourself for $40, plus the honey it will produce. If you can overwinter, it sounds like a win win anyway you look at it. Any criticism? Am I looking at this the wrong way?


I think $150.00 in your area is extremely optimistic. When I was in KY I was getting $90.00 for a nuc, I had too much local competition to charge any more then they did. Also an "Over Wintered Nuc" in the south doesn't add value. When people are looking for overwintered nucs usually they want one that is proven in wintering in the North.


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## DLMKA (Feb 7, 2012)

David LaFerney said:


> This may be hard to believe, but to many folks an extra $5000.00 (or $1000) per year IS meaningful. And earning it on your own terms instead of at a part time minimum wage job is meaningful too. And just for the sake of argument let's say that money is no object - there is still nothing wrong with enjoying the fact that your hobby generates income instead of being a bottom less money pit like most are.
> 
> All other things being equal I'm pretty confident there is more satisfaction in being the guy with bees for sale every spring than in having to buy bees every spring.


This pretty well sums up my feelings on making nucs. I can't live on $5k but throw in another $5k for honey sales and for doing something I ENJOY and get a lot of personal satisfaction out of?!?! Sure beats working a low pay retail job @ $9/hr for 20hrs/wk in addition to my regular 8-5 job. To top it all off, I won't need to buy bees if we have another hard winter like the last one.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

bluegrass said:


> I get 12 bucks a quart. The super combs are already drawn out and their production is down from what a full colony over wintered can make, but not by much..40 lbs or so. I get honey crops off of first year packages by sticking them on drawn comb... last fall some of my first year packs gave up 30-40 lbs of honey on the fall flow and still put enough away to winter.
> 
> 
> 
> I think $150.00 in your area is extremely optimistic. When I was in KY I was getting $90.00 for a nuc, I had too much local competition to charge any more then they did. Also an "Over Wintered Nuc" in the south doesn't add value. When people are looking for overwintered nucs usually they want one that is proven in wintering in the North.


Sounds like a plan to me. Price them high enough to be worth selling, and if they don't sell at that price then make honey.


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## Edymnion (May 30, 2013)

bluegrass said:


> I think $150.00 in your area is extremely optimistic. When I was in KY I was getting $90.00 for a nuc, I had too much local competition to charge any more then they did.


I'm in Chattanooga and I happily paid I think it was $125 for a nuc in December while it was cheaper.

With pretty much every major supplier saying they can't keep up with demand, you can pretty much name your own price and eventually they will sell. Being the guy that still has nucs in May or June means $200 a nuc is entirely possible.


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## rhaldridge (Dec 17, 2012)

bluegrass said:


> I get 12 bucks a quart. .


Okay, but there's lots of labor and expense involved in getting to that point, over what you'd spend on a nuc. You have to come up with the woodenware, you have to take care of the hive while it's sitting in the yard, you have to harvest the honey, extract it, bottle it, sell it, deliver it, and so on. Additionally, if you have a bad season or the hive dies, that gamble doesn't pay off... the nuc guy gets paid whether or not it's a good season.


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## Randy south MS (Aug 7, 2013)

Locally, spring made nucs go for $100 each. These are full, established nucs with a good laying pattern. You get 5 full frames with brood, honey, pollen and the queen of course. I bought 2 last spring and they made 2 deep 10 frame supers of honey each. There might be an advantage to being in the south.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

KPeacock said:


> I tossed out the $100 figure only to indicate what I thought would be a decent return for me.


Glad I am not a professional beek in your area trying to feed my children.


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## Robndixie (Oct 20, 2012)

shinbone said:


> Glad I am not a professional beek in your area trying to feed my children.


that's what i was thinking when i asked the question. by selling those nucs that far below market it could drive the price down for the guys that are trying to make a living. demand is so high that it probably won't but why make it hard on the other guy?


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## pannu96 (Mar 7, 2012)

I know a guy here that sells nucs in April for $150, when packages are $190.


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## Robndixie (Oct 20, 2012)

bluegrass said:


> I get 12 bucks a quart. The super combs are already drawn out and their production is down from what a full colony over wintered can make, but not by much..40 lbs or so. I get honey crops off of first year packages by sticking them on drawn comb... last fall some of my first year packs gave up 30-40 lbs of honey on the fall flow and still put enough away to winter.
> 
> 
> 
> I think $150.00 in your area is extremely optimistic. When I was in KY I was getting $90.00 for a nuc, I had too much local competition to charge any more then they did. Also an "Over Wintered Nuc" in the south doesn't add value. When people are looking for overwintered nucs usually they want one that is proven in wintering in the North.


i'd pay more for bees that survived a winter down here. we lose hives down this way too.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

Local nucs are going for $170 in my area. And the guy is already sold out.


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

shinbone said:


> Local nucs are going for $170 in my area. And the guy is already sold out.


Shinbone: Who is this "sold out" guy if I might ask? We are scheduled to supply a couple of hundred to an unnamed person in the the Denver area and could provide MANY more. If its the same person and they say they are sold out its not from our side of the supply chain. My guess its because they don't want to deal with more for whatever reason in their chain of custody. We could make up and deliver up to 500 more in early-to mid May if the demand is truly there.


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## Deepsouth (Feb 21, 2012)

bluegrass said:


> I think $150.00 in your area is extremely optimistic. When I was in KY I was getting $90.00 for a nuc, I had too much local competition to charge any more then they did. Also an "Over Wintered Nuc" in the south doesn't add value. When people are looking for overwintered nucs usually they want one that is proven in wintering in the North.


I dont know how you figure that. Overwintered nuc in my opinion isn't more valuable just because in survives winter. It is a proven queen that has maintained a strong hive for a year. You know you would not be getting a poorly mated young queen that fizzles out in a couple months. Or a package that was dumped into a nuc a couple weeks ago.


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## bluegrass (Aug 30, 2006)

Deepsouth said:


> I dont know how you figure that. Overwintered nuc in my opinion isn't more valuable just because in survives winter. It is a proven queen that has maintained a strong hive for a year.* You know you would not be getting a poorly mated young queen that fizzles out in a couple months*. Or a package that was dumped into a nuc a couple weeks ago.


May be if you know and trust the producer; but there is no sure way that you can know what you are getting. Say a producer pre-sells all their over wintered nucs and then looses 20% of them? How does the consumer know that the producer didn't throw together some nucs to make up for the losses? They don't; it is completely based on taking their word for it. I personally would not pay a premium price for an "overwintered" nuc based on that description alone.


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## Deepsouth (Feb 21, 2012)

bluegrass said:


> May be if you know and trust the producer; but there is no sure way that you can know what you are getting. Say a producer pre-sells all their over wintered nucs and then looses 20% of them? How does the consumer know that the producer didn't throw together some nucs to make up for the losses? They don't; it is completely based on taking their word for it. I personally would not pay a premium price for an "overwintered" nuc based on that description alone.


And its exactly the same for Northern overwintered nucs. You still have to trust the producer in the north.


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## Dominic (Jul 12, 2013)

Deepsouth said:


> I dont know how you figure that. Overwintered nuc in my opinion isn't more valuable just because in survives winter. It is a proven queen that has maintained a strong hive for a year. You know you would not be getting a poorly mated young queen that fizzles out in a couple months. Or a package that was dumped into a nuc a couple weeks ago.


That's not what overwintered means. That might be what some sellers are offering, but that's doesn't it's what they are all offering. Overwintered just means they made it through winter. It could very well be a fall queen, one shouldn't assume it is a spring queen. And would you really want a spring queen anyways? Being older means she has worse odds of surviving the next winter. In any case, if the age of the queen matters to you, you shouldn't assume, you should ask.


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## Deepsouth (Feb 21, 2012)

Dominic said:


> That's not what overwintered means. That might be what some sellers are offering, but that's doesn't it's what they are all offering. Overwintered just means they made it through winter. It could very well be a fall queen, one shouldn't assume it is a spring queen. And would you really want a spring queen anyways? Being older means she has worse odds of surviving the next winter. In any case, if the age of the queen matters to you, you shouldn't assume, you should ask.


I picked the wrong word when I said Year. I meant they will be going into their second season. The queen could have been from any time of the year last year.
All im saying is that you know you would not be getting a nuc that was made a couple weeks ago ( which still isnt a bad thing I sell spring and overwintered nucs) And yes you still may not get a quality queen but in my operation I can defiantly fell better telling someone that a queen is a quality queen that has lived for a few months over one that has only been living for a few weeks.


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