# Ways to protect queen cells from other hatched queens...



## davel (Jan 29, 2011)

Can anyone give me some ideas on how to protect queen cells we find from another queen that hatches first. Specifically, when we are doing inspections and we come across queen cells in our cell builder (from eggs or young larva we missed) we don't always have a mating nuc set up. Is there a way we can protect these cells until we can get a mating nuc set up? We use hair roller cages on our grafting frames and I've seen a "nurse bar" which is made to put in queen cells once they are capped using the jzbz cups and cup holders. Just wondering how you could do it when you pick them off the comb. Also, has anyone come across an adaptor or something where we can use the hair roller cages on the actual jzbz holders? We have to have all the extra parts from the Nicot system for the roller cages to work.
Thanks!


----------



## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

I run topbar hives and make queen cells by pulling the existing queen so they make emergency replacements (with a few other steps in there). I usually end up with 15 capped cells per hive and I cut out the extras and place them in the roller cages with workers (to keep small hive beetles away) and then I put them in this holder I built. This would go in a queenless hive until the ladies hatch.


----------



## tech.35058 (Jul 29, 2013)

This did _NOT_ work for me ...
I made some push in cages to leave the QC on the comb.
Problem was, the hive beetles loved it. ( I probably did it wrong ... 
Some one suggested I did not have enough nurse bees in the cage.


----------



## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

I make 5-hole cages with a sliding, ventilated top for capped queen cells to hatch in. There is room for queen candy in one hole, room for the QC, and for the hatched queen. Place these into a cotton-lined cigar box while in the field.

In the Queen bank hive, they go into their own special frame, which goes on the queenless side of the Cloake Board.


----------



## davel (Jan 29, 2011)

How are you attaching the queen cell to the hair roller cage?


----------



## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

davel said:


> How are you attaching the queen cell to the hair roller cage?


Since I am cutting the queen cells out of the beeswax, I just make sure I cut well above it so I have a "lip" of wax. I mash that between my fingers to flatten it out some and when I place the queen cell down in the roller cage, I have a bit of a handle. I make sure that I leave some of it hanging out when I close the flap.

As I type this, I realize you probably are using the roller cages that are open on one end for the grafting cap. I found some that have a yellow and black insert that goes there that allows them to stand up in a holder. So I'm probably using the roller cage "upside down".







I buy these off ebay in lots of 50 for next to nothing.


----------



## davel (Jan 29, 2011)

Thanks!!


----------



## Ddawg (Feb 17, 2012)

I found this on an earlier Beesource thread on making your own cell protector cage, carrying/introduction cage and push in cage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wz7DDG2wyaY

All take less than 10 minutes to make. I think I'm gonna give them a try.


----------



## davel (Jan 29, 2011)

Thanks Ddawg!!


----------



## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Today I inspected the nuc hives for some newly emerged queens.
Yesterday I put a smaller queen cell on the nearby frame of another larger
cell. On inspection I found out that the smaller queen had emerged first and she had
killed the larger queen cell with the help of the worker bees. Got a pic of
it too. What a sad scene! I should not have taken the chance and hope that the bigger cell queen will emerge first.
Another lesson learned today.


----------



## Bees of SC (Apr 12, 2013)

ruthiesbees Thank You. I thank upside down will work better too


----------



## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

The above you tube vid did not show how the workers can
enter the cage to keep the queen cell warm in the cold nights.
Do queen cells need to keep warm for them to develop too?
My understanding is that they are like the capped larvae that need
heat to prevent the chilled broods too.


----------



## Ddawg (Feb 17, 2012)

beepro said:


> The above you tube vid did not show how the workers can
> enter the cage to keep the queen cell warm in the cold nights.
> Do queen cells need to keep warm for them to develop too?
> My understanding is that they are like the capped larvae that need
> heat to prevent the chilled broods too.


 I believe he stated in the video that he places the cages on the cells right before they hatch.


----------



## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Every once in a while our minds got away with reality when it
comes to the bee terms and definition. So Astro gave me a correction
on one of my posts. He said that the eggs hatch but the queen emerged.
What if one queen happens to emerge earlier than the rest? This is rather risky
to put the q cells inside just before they emerged. I've been thinking to use a plastic
queen excluder cut to small pieces for one side of the wire cage. This way the workers can
tend to the cells better. And the queens cannot get out to do her dirty work. Now where can
I find some cheap q excluder for this project? What do you think?


----------



## Slow Drone (Apr 19, 2014)

Beepro you might be interested in the queen cages on Dave Cushman's website.


----------



## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

I found out for $14.31 dollars you can get 50 small pieces (5.5 x 1.4 x 0.1 inch) of these
rectangular plastic strip QE. If you make a small thin wooden rectangular box to fit in the plastic strip
on one side and duct tape on the rest of the wood pieces then you will have a 
nice size cell cage for the queen to emerge in. Or you can cut down the plastic strip to make a 
shorter version of the box so that you will have a 2.75" tall box. That is 100 (for the cost of $7.16 or .14 cents/piece) small cages there although with longer cell it might not fit in that well. With a bigger cell cup and a shorter capped cell you don't
have to worry about having enough RJ to feed the developing queen larva. A plastic QE will cost you around 9 bucks
these day. Worth it for the price I think if you are handy at making wooden strips for the cages.


----------



## Ddawg (Feb 17, 2012)

beepro;1398782 I've been thinking to use a plastic
queen excluder cut to small pieces for one side of the wire cage. This way the workers can
tend to the cells better. And the queens cannot get out to do her dirty work. Now where can
I find some cheap q excluder for this project? What do you think?[/QUOTE said:


> I'm new to Queen raising myself, but it seems that I read somewhere that a virgin queen could possibly slip through a QE. Once again, I am only speculating on something I may have read and I have no actual facts to back this up.


----------



## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Yes, I had experienced this before.
A virgin can slip through only when it is a dinky undeveloped one.
These type of queens we do not keep because it is not well fed.
It is somewhere between a worker bee and a partially develop queen bee.
Now for a fully developed queen her thorax is too big to slip through. That is
why at the culling stage I will choose the larger cells to nuc them. These will be
the big thorax queens because I know they are the well fed and well develop ones.
No way they can slip through the QE. Also, I will not put all my eggs in one basket risking
the entire process. I put them into 2 separate batches so that if one is loss then I still have
the other batch as a back up. Now using these individual cell cage should increase your chance
of getting some nice queens. And I don't think they are that hard to make using the silver duct
tapes for the cage either. I have 4 years of queen rearing experience so can help you along too.


----------



## yem (Jan 19, 2010)

I make my own cell protector cages from #8 mesh.....it is cut and rolled on a 3/4" dowel rod and fastened closed along the side and one end with bits of wire, when jzbz cell cups are removed from the cell bar they sit nicely in the open end of the cage.


----------



## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

yem, at what time of the cell development do you removed the cells from the cell bar to put in
these cell protector cages?
Just when the cells are capped, after 10 days or close to their hatching time?


----------



## yem (Jan 19, 2010)

Depends on if I have another set of larva to give them, usually its right after they are capped. Then I move the finished cells in cages to the side of the starter/finisher colony.....then they get moved to the mating nucs on day 10 or 11. The reason for the cage use is because I had a virgin hatch out on day 6 last year and wiped out the other nine queen cells in the hive.


----------

