# Wax Dipping Boxes & Hive Parts



## Rader Sidetrack

This older thread may be useful to you:
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?210110-Hot-Dipping-Tank


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## Mr.Beeman

This should help a lot.


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## AstroBee

I saw that video recently and really like that you can do 3 deeps at a time. 

Does anyone know about the microcrystalline wax that is talked about in this video? How does it compare with conventional rosin, cost, and source?


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## mmmooretx

I found a 33 page pdf document but do not know how to attach. It is a study done in Australia a couple of years ago. If someone tells me how, or how to submit to an administrator to check to see if there are copyright issues I will be glad to forward. Sorry I cannot remember where I found it. It is very enlightening.


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## Rader Sidetrack

Mike, if you can post the original title of the PDF document, someone  may be able to find it again on the net. That way we could then link to it and avoid any possible copyright issues that could arise by posting the document here in its entirety.

If you aren't sure of the original title, choose a sequence of words from the document, and quote them here exactly as they appear in the PDF. A dozen words, on topic, in sequence is probably good enough for a search.


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## mmmooretx

Found it, thanks for the hint. The link to the document is about halfway down the page.

http://www.queenrightcolonies.com/Paraffin_Hot_Dip.html


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## AstroBee

Very nice! Thank you.


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## Michael Bush

I've thought about it a lot. Obviously it's nice to be able to do more at once. It would also be nice if it took less wax, and also nice if putting a box in didn't too greatly affect the level of wax (these two are counter to one another). You can fit a box inside a box if you turn the inside box on it's end while the other boxes are in normal position. The length of a box is pretty much equal to two deeps or three mediums. You can fit one eight frame medium in the middle of three eight frame mediums. You can fit two ten frame mediums in the middle of three ten frame mediums. you can fit one ten frame deep in the middle of two ten frame deeps. This gets you a few more at one time. Also keep in mind you will probably want to do bottoms which may be bigger than a box in length. You also have to have about an inch or two around the outside to keep it from boiling over.


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## beeman2009

Mike,

What would you say would be a good size tank & burner size as well as an app amount of wax needed to be purchased?

Thanks


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## Michael Bush

>What would you say would be a good size tank & burner size as well as an app amount of wax needed to be purchased?

Obviously there would be a lot of sizes that would be inefficient. But there are a lot of reasonable possibilities. Also there is the issue of how many you're going to do and how much wax and rosin you will buy. If I were a hobbyist doing enough for four hives or so I'd be satisfied with one that would do one box. If I were setting up a production line to do thousands of boxes, I'd make it wide enough for three boxes and tall enough for three boxes and with the ones down the middle that would make twelve boxes at a time. I would prefer a steam system to heat it so you can't burn the wax, but I've only used a gas burner so far. I have an old gas stove set up outside and a fire extinguisher handy and a fairly tight lid for the box, but I would scorch the wax less, and risk fire less if I had a steam heat setup. It only takes about 15 pounds or so of pressure to get plenty of heat for the process. The amount of wax needed, of course is related to the size of the box. My current setup does one whole box and two halves of boxes (half of the one down the middle on the end, and half of the top box and all of the bottom box). So in two batches I get four boxes done. It was tedious, but I dipped more than 500 boxes, more than 200 lids, and more than 200 bottom boards with it. I have contemplated a steam setup to do 12 at a time.


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## Hamp54

Does anyone have thoughts on dipping supers before they are assembled? ...Or am I missing some obvious problem as usual.
Thanks!
Hamp


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## mmmooretx

Glue will not bond to waxed wood. Also you would have to have something like a dishwasher rack to keep the individual pieces apart so they will absorb better (could also be fun to separate if they cool together).


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## Haraga

beeman2009 said:


> Mike,
> 
> What would you say would be a good size tank & burner size as well as an app amount of wax needed to be purchased?
> 
> Thanks


I don't know the answer but I just received 100 lb of wax and 55 lb of rosin. I will know next month. I am thinking of building a water jacketed tank. Does anyone know if this will work?


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## AstroBee

Haraga said:


> I am thinking of building a water jacketed tank.


Don't you need to get the wax temps to around 300 F? Seems you'd need a stream boiler system..... $$$


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## Michael Bush

I do mine at about 250 F. If you don't get it hot enough to boil the water in the wood, it doesn't really do what it needs to do. 212 F won't do that. It only takes about 12 to 20 pounds of pressure to get it up there, so a double jacket and a pop off valve could do it.


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## Hamp54

Does anyone know if a 55 gallon oil drum would hold up for this? Will the seams leak? Years ago I boiled a bunch of deeps and shallows in lye with one...opens your sinuses right up! Obviously it was water at 212 degrees not wax at 300 degrees.

I really like the idea of wax dipping equipment but it makes me really nervous too. It seems to have 911 written all over it. I should mention that I'm VERY small time and might be doing 50 or so mediums. Even if I could afford a big stainless tank to do this with I don't have anywhere to store it while the oil drum is disposable. Any ideas?
Thanks!
Hamp


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## Michael Bush

I have heard of people using a cut off 55 gallon drum for this purpose. I have not tried it. I think it will take too much wax to fill it (wasted space) since it's round and not square.


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## Keith Jarrett

AstroBee said:


> Don't you need to get the wax temps to around 300 F? Seems you'd need a stream boiler system..... $$$


Yes, temps 300-325 is good we just build a fire out of scrap wood underneath our tank, we will be dipping a couple thousand boxes next week I will take a few pics. This whole prosess is very simple & is much over dunn on these threads.


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## 779Hybrid410

I agree with KJ. I use birch and on a warmer winter day get a good fire going in my fire pit and boil away. To reduce the amount of wax, I place concrete blocks in the middle of my wax box when boiling frames, uses way less wax. I like to darken my boxes with a weed burner to help absorb winter radiance.


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## Hamp54

779Hybrid410 said:


> I agree with KJ. I use birch and on a warmer winter day get a good fire going in my fire pit and boil away. To reduce the amount of wax, I place concrete blocks in the middle of my wax box when boiling frames, uses way less wax. I like to darken my boxes with a weed burner to help absorb winter radiance.


The concrete blocks sound like a great idea!


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## simplynatural

I hope this is not an inappropriate place to ask my questions on wax dipping. I noticed on the older post Curtis mentioned use of a 100quart stock pot. The one he posted a link to is $270 but there are a great many aluminum ones out there for more like $70 - is there some obvious reason to not use aluminum? We are just doing 3-6 hives total so do not need anything large at all! Or if there is a better lower cost alternative I'm sure open to it!
Also, what are your favorite sources for the rosin, microcrystalline, and wax? Any idea on quantities I would be needing for a 100 quart stock pot (as I have no pot at this moment and am ordering supplies  Is the ratio still 2:1 when using rosin? Nobody commented on the microcrystalline vs. rosin - any thoughts yet?
edited - I did look at Mann Lake for rosin, but no searches came up with anything. 
Thank you guys!


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## Mr. C

Wax and rosin is cheaper. Wax is cheapest at candlewic.com, you want the 140 degree melt temp stuff.
http://www.candlewic.com/store/Product.aspx?q=c49,p1075&title=Paraffin-Wax-140

JH Calo will ship bags of rosin, best price I could find.

I built my tank 26lx22wx36h (inches). The bottom is 1/4 steel, sides 1/8 inch, the telescoping cover and splash guard is 1/16 inch steel.

It took me 400lbs of wax and 55lbs of Rosin to fill it sufficiently to start.

I have a 150,000 BTU banjou classic burner that sits in a pit with heavy fire bricks around it. I'd like to insulate it some to save propane, I tend to dip earlier in the spring, hopefully I can wait for warmer weather this year.

I can dip 3deeps or 5 mediums, ot like 7-10 tops/bottom boards at once.

Whatever you do don't paint the inside of the tank with heat resistant paint because I have to scrape blobs of black paint off as it flakes off the sides. Oh well live and learn..

It cost me 1000-1200 dollars to set up.


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## Rader Sidetrack

If you would like to have wax dipped hive bodies, but can't justify the expense of setting up your own wax tank, you can buy "dipped" woodenware from Country Rubes:

http://store.countryrubes.com/hivebodies.aspx


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## 779Hybrid410

Or just use a weed burner and get several 1-2lb bars of wax. Slowly heat the wood, with a low setting on the weed burner, and run your bar of wax over the heated wood. The wood will soak up the wax, if heated properly. If you have the burner set correctly, you can see when the wax starts boiling as bubbles appear. I pre-heat my boxes next to my shop stove to +100F. You can obtain a nice burnt look, which helps absorb thermal mass.


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## 779Hybrid410

Oh, as Mr. C says, don't paint the inside, (same lesson learned). The wax does just great to preserve the interior.


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## simplynatural

Are you making your own "wax bars" out of rosin and wax or are you just using wax? What kind of life do you get out of your boxes?
Thank you


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## 779Hybrid410

Just regular bar wax, you can find on ebay or local apiaries. In my harsh environment, with lots of wind 6-8 years.


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## Mr. C

I meant don't paint the inside of the wax tank... mine was cold rolled steel, not stainless so I painted it to prevent rust until it was filled.


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## simplynatural

779Hybrid410 said:


> Just regular bar wax, you can find on ebay or local apiaries. In my harsh environment, with lots of wind 6-8 years.


Do you then rewax them or are they no longer usable?
Thanks so much!


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## 779Hybrid410

Mostly re-wax. Or in my climate (wind) turn a grayish colour.


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## mmmooretx

Rader Sidetrack said:


> If you would like to have wax dipped hive bodies, but can't justify the expense of setting up your own wax tank, you can buy "dipped" woodenware from Country Rubes:
> 
> http://store.countryrubes.com/hivebodies.aspx


I will second this! I only can have 5-6 hives (in-town residence) so it is cheaper to buy pre-made units rather than building a tank for me. I just finished buying another 2 bases and 20 med. boxes. The postage was far less than the tank build out and wax buy for my needs. This is scale decision driven by how many hives you have. I will vouch for the great quality from Country Rubes and if you have any issues Janet will make it right! Their boxes are made by Shastina and Country Rubes assembles/glues/dips them. Their basses are made in house.


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## simplynatural

You do have a point there and I'm sure they do a great job.
Unfortunately the price different in 15 supers between theirs assembled and shipped and the unassembled ones I'm buying is $314. I can get the wax and container to heat for that and will be able to do future hives also. But it is due to having a BIL who does welding.


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## simplynatural

what horrible things happen if you can't submerge the entire super at once? I found a container that will work, but it would not be safe to submerge the whole box. I thought to just flip it after 10 minutes but maybe that would not work.


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## Michael Bush

>I thought to just flip it after 10 minutes but maybe that would not work. 

It works fine. My setup dips one full box, one half box on end and one half box in regular position. Then I remove the box that is done, put a new box at the bottom, flip the two "half done" boxes and cook those. So in two batches I get four boxes done. It works fine.


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## bryani289swmi

Yesterday I went to a friends house as I thought I had seen some tanks there which might suit my purpose for dipping. Turns out he has 3 nice tanks, 28"L X 22"W X 26"H. He gave me one which at most I might sandblast the inside but overall it is very clean. A couple questions:

1. I've seen reference to the paraffin 140 and rosin ration, some say 2 parts paraffin to 1 part rosin. I've also seen others up to 6 parts paraffin to 1 part rosin. Just wondering what a correct ratio would be and if some folks could clear this up.

2. It appears as if there are several types and grades of rosin. Could someone provide a specific type/grade/supplier/part number which works for them. Thanks.

Bryan


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## Mr. C

I think I misposted earlier. I checked my receipts, I got 2x 55lb bags from JH Calo of gum rosin (110lb total). I got 300lbs of the 140 melt point parrafin wax from candlewic.com. I bought stuff two different times and kind of forgot. My tank is really close to the same length and width, but 36inches tall. I think I calculated to fill it 2feet deep, which you won't want to do, but it doesn't hurt to have some on hand for when you work through it.


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## mmmooretx

Mr. C said:


> I think I misposted earlier. I checked my receipts, I got 2x 55lb bags from JH Calo of gum rosin (110lb total). I got 300lbs of the 140 melt point parrafin wax from candlewic.com. I bought stuff two different times and kind of forgot. My tank is really close to the same length and width, but 36inches tall. I think I calculated to fill it 2feet deep, which you won't want to do, but it doesn't hurt to have some on hand for when you work through it.


Take a look at this Aussie study, I think it went into that as well as the micro-crystalline wax. What I found very interesting is that you can re-process your boxes instead of burning them if you get AFB since it kills or encapsulates the spores. The PDF document is about half way down the page.

http://www.queenrightcolonies.com/Paraffin_Hot_Dip.html


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## porknbees

does anyone know how much wax a hive box takes or figured the raw numbers on wax consumption for any particular wood ware?


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## squarepeg

welcome to beesource pnb.

i haven't dipped and i don't have the answer to your question, but here is some information on dipping in case you haven't seen it already:

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesdipping.htm

michael bush posts here from time to time and may respond to your query, but you can also send him an email to the address on the home page of the site linked above.


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## porknbees

porknbees said:


> does anyone know how much wax a hive box takes or figured the raw numbers on wax consumption for any particular wood ware?


thanks good info


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## Michael Bush

I never tried to collect exact numbers, but I dipped about five hundred boxes, two hundred bottoms, two hundred covers, and a few nucs and other odds and ends and went through about fifty pounds of rosin and a hundred pounds of beeswax.


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