# Bee handling question



## Rich M (Apr 9, 2005)

After 3 weeks my 3lb package of Italians had drawn 10 combs. They are fairly calm during inspection but I need some work on my handling techniques. First is how do you replace the bars without crushing bees? They like to come up for a look and are reluctant to go back inside. I ended up putting one end of the bar tight against the next and then gently and slowly bringing the other end together closing the gap. This takes a while as they keep popping up into the gap. Is there a better way? They very much don't like smoke and actually attack the smoker when I use it. The other thing is using the bee brush. This really gets them hot and they begin buzzing loudly and attacking after being brushed off a surface. I would like to eventually work them without gloves or smoke if I could refine my techniques enough to permit it.


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## BWrangler (Aug 14, 2002)

Hi Rich,

What kind of bee brush are you using? A few companies still sell a black horse hair brush designed for draftsmen and not beekeeping. That brush will instantly inflame the bees. The best brush is composed of soft, yellow, plastic bristles.

Or you could have very hot bees. How do they behave before you open the hive? Do they follow you? Head butt? Sting instantly when they bump into you?

How about after working the hive? How far do they follow you, etc,

Regards
Dennis


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## Rich M (Apr 9, 2005)

Hi Dennis,

The brush I use is a "bee brush" i.e. soft yellow bristles. The bees are very calm before opening the hive. I can stand 2 feet from the entrance observing them without any protective clothing and they show no defensive behavior. Even when the hive is first opened they stay relatively calm. When they come out between the removed bars they seem more curious than defensive. It's only when I try moving them either with the brush or with a little smoke do they start buzzing loudly, flying, head butting and attempting to sting. After the hive is closed they don't follow at all but his could be because I have a somewhat wooded path that I use that leads away from the back of the hive. I'm not sure but I don't think they are unusually hot, they just don't like me trying to make them move which makes me think it's the way I'm attempting to manipulate them? 

Rich


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I use technique mostly. Set the bar down in such a way as to push the bees back down without crushing. In other words the bar is sliding down against the other bar, not being pushed over to it. A smoker helps push them down as does your breath. Of course on a hot hive your breath will make them mad, but mine seem to take it well enough. They just panic and flee.


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## Rich M (Apr 9, 2005)

Thanks Michael, I'll try that next time.


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## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

Frame rests are a BIG bee-saver in this regard.
The Stoller 2-piece spacers give one a "lip",
a nice metal surface to scrape clean under each 
frame, and raise the frame up to allow bees to 
scurry under the end bars when they are in place.
(It also makes a much smaller contact area 
between the frame and the frame rest, so
frames don't get "stuck".)

The 9-frame spacers snap onto the base "lip",
so we put lips on everything, as it standardizes
the box design for everything, and keeps the
bee space correct.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

Working bees without smoke, although occaisionlly successful, goes against the nature of the bees phermone defense mechanism. If they are attacking your smoker you need to find a less acrid fuel or cooler fuel, make sure your smoker is full so you aren't blowing sparks or flame and don't puff too hard. Smoke is not just to protect you, it prevents guard bees from sacrificing their lives when they have to defend the hive from an intruder, which you always will be no matter how much you technique improves.


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## Scot Mc Pherson (Oct 12, 2001)

I don't know if I agree completely with that last post. Smoke isn't a necessity, I bought a smoker this year "just because" and it got exactly two uses before being shelved. If you work on your technique AND on yoru comfort levels which come with exposure, you do learn to be much less of an intrusion/intruder and the bees can gain a tendency to be more interested in what you are doing instead of seeking to get rid of you. One of the advantages of a TopBarHive is quite frankly that you become much less of an intruder.


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## Scot Mc Pherson (Oct 12, 2001)

Learning to replace topbars is a technique that does need to be learned. I slide the bar up next to the one its going to be against, just putting slight pressure on the bees that are there. most of them will scurry down leaving 2 or 3 in the space which can be worked down quickly and carefully by "tapping" them with the bar you are replacing. I don't mean squashing them, but lightly tapping their backs until they move out of the way. Also quite frankly, you are killing QUITE a few less bees than you would be if you were replacing hive bodies on a langstroth hive. I kill 2 or 3 bees each inspection per hive from squashing on topbars. Its an inevitable loss for almost every beekeeper. Sometimes I dont' even realize it until I see the flattened bee next inspection session.


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## Rich M (Apr 9, 2005)

Thanks everyone for the help. The smoker fuel I'm using is made by Dadant to supposedly be cooler and less irritating than wood chips etc. It's a compressed fiber disc that smells rather like burning hemp. I think my mistake may have been not using enough fuel. I was getting light puffs instead of a thick plume of smoke.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I think the mistake most people make with a smoker is too much smoke. But you do need it lit well.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

Rich, I keep some of that on hand for emergencies. It is about the most acrid smoker fuel I've used. It also does not make good thick clouds of cool smoke and often blows sparks due to the lack of "filtering" material on top of what's burning. I prefer pine straw or used hay rope. They light easily, burn for long periods and make copious amounts of relatively cool, thick smoke.


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## Rich M (Apr 9, 2005)

Interesting, I'll try some pine straw next and see if that has a better effect. Thanks.


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## MGBee (May 25, 2004)

My limited experience with TBH and smoke is similar to Scott's. I do not "like" to use smoke, but I keep a lit smoker close by in case I do something clumsy or stupid during inspections.

I have used smoke 1 time this year because I collapsed a filled bar when cutting side attachments. Created quite a stir when it fell. The smoke gave me enough time clean up.

As a hobbyist, I like to inspect fairly often, and as Scott said in a previous post, the TBH (with no smoke)allow me to inspect with minimal intrusion.

It will be interesting to see TBH temper when the honey flow ends.

Regards,
Miles


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## BeeTheBee (Mar 27, 2015)

I have a Top Bar Hive, your technique is good with your Bar. I do the same, it just takes a minute or so. I do Not smoke, I do not brush unless I want to look at a particular comb, I do not wear gloves. I do full inspections like this with no issues at all. I used to smoke and I had many issues by enrageing the Bees even with lite smoke. I get a real feel for the hive and the Bees by staying more natrual, I let them be Bees. Im the visitor. Use Grass or feathers for a Brush, I made my own from chicken feathers. Unless they are low on stores, or queenless, or its way to hot or rainy you'll be fine and even if all those things are presant still I do not smoke and they are still calmer.


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## Deeohgee (Jun 28, 2015)

I work my hive, usually with no smoke. I do keep it lit and handy in the event the girls are PMSing for some reason. I use my bare hands. The bees will move away from your finger, at least my 12 colonies do. So, I hold my frames at the thickest part when I put them back in. The Bees move away from my fingers. then I gently slide the frame back tight. occasionally I have to do this slowly to allow the bees to move. It is not 100%. Unfortunately I will hear the crunch as I crush a bee.
My mentor, and I have read others say, to follow some basic steps.
1. Have a plan, know what you are looking for and disturb only the minimal number of frames necessary to find you discovery.
2. Have all your items, including a cell phone (camera) handy when you open the hive body.
3. Make fluid movements like you were practicing Tia Chi.
4. Wear light colored clothing.
5. Inspect when the workers are out flying and gathering. It reduces the number of bees and guards.
Now, I use no brush and seldom gloves, smoker or veil. I find a spary bottle with a 1:1 mix of syrup misted over the colony kind of pre occupies them.

My2cents


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## Jon Wolff (Apr 28, 2013)

I use long strips of 1/8" plexiglass, 2" wide. When I inspect, I move each bar to within a bee thickness of the last bar and set a strip into the gap, forcing the bees down. After 4 bars (I have 4 plexiglass strips), I gently and evenly push all the bars closed, starting with the last. When all bars are tight against the strips, I pop out the strips and then finish closing the gaps. Unlike the metal rod method (which I sometimes use if the bees are staying down), the bees that climb on top of the bars can't go back between the bars once the strips are inserted and get squished. This method works no matter how hot the bees are. They can be pouring out and all I need to do is work the strips in and set them at an angle across the gap and it shuts them down. Because of the angle of the plexiglass, bees in the gaps will move out as the bars are slowly closed. Sometimes bees will still get stuck, especially if they are agitated and trying to squeeze out through the sides, so as I close the bars, I'll gently move the strips back and forth a few times. I can close up a hive a lot faster with this method than I used to with other methods I've tried. 

Another great thing about the strips is I can lay them flat across a gap to keep the bees and the broodnest heat in while I go about doing something else (like I did yesterday when I went to another hive to get a comb of eggs/open brood to give to a hive that appears to be queenless).


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## Beesure! (Apr 24, 2012)

You may be over smoking your bees, a little goes a long ways.


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## BeeTheBee (Mar 27, 2015)

Im an advocate of letting the Bees be unless there is something wrong and you need to manage the hive for various reasons like cross comb, honey bound, seasonal bar managment, basic inspections for the health of the colony.

Admittedly Im not a Vetarin, just new to this but just adore my Bees. It is a pleasure to watch them and be in their midst during an inspection. I have been stung a few times not a big deal it doesnt hurt much its what they do, it was probably my fault, too much pokeing around on a rainy day or something.

I do not smoke my hive at all, it pisses them off completely and changes their normal peacefull and Mellow attitude into a defensive aggressive seek and destroy mission. The Buzzz goes way up--way up with smoke. I wear a Bee jacket with Mask, no gloves. I see them as they are as if I or no human was there. I hold their bars up to the sun for minutes to inspect each and they are content to go about their buisness, I watch them dance, and move around, what world Im privilidged to watch.

No smoke, just quietly moveing, smooth breathing and sensitivity to this rare creature and my interaction with them. I take my time Im not in it for the Honey if they have leftovers I take some. I do full inspections unobtrusivly every 2 weeks or so. It gives me peace of mind.


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