# Deep supers



## no1cowboy (May 18, 2007)

go with what your comfortable with, there are some big operations i know of that use all deeps.


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## basser59 (Nov 2, 2009)

I only have a few hives and plan on expanding. Last year I used all deeps for supers. I saved all of the frames with drawn comb after extraction so that when I make splits this spring I have drawn comb to start them with.


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## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

The deep is a more efficient use of materials, just as a cube is to a rectangular parallelpiped (rectangular box).


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

There is no reason for it other than weight.

In fact, the bees prefer deeps over 3/4 or 1/2 supers, and going deeps all the way keeps everything interchangable.


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## WI-beek (Jul 14, 2009)

I mostly agree with others

1- If you plan on adding any hives then you will have drawn comb ready for new colonies.

2- while you are waiting to get your arsenal of drawn frames built up everything will be interchangeable.

3- You will cover more space and need less suppering with all deeps then mediums or shallows. This means less boxes and frames to put together and buy your first year. It also works out to be more cost effective. 

But, a deep box of honey is VERY HEAVY! I like to brush the bees off and put the frames in empty nuc boxes so I can carry half the weight. I dont like carrying more than a medium full of honey very far.

Another negative aspect I can think of is the fact that it is harder to get a box of completely capped deep frames of honey than a completely capped box of shallows or mediums. 

If you have a hot spot though you may end up getting more honey and drawn comb than you think. I had one nucleus colony go from five frames in June to three deeps and two mediums by fall and every frame was started from foundation except the original five. I harvested one deep box full of honey, the two mediums and then re harvested one and a half mediums. I could not believe it but it happened. You just never know till it happens. I thnk they supercieded that queen at the end of summer too. I hope the new one is as good as mama.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Good to hear of your success WI-Beek.

Love it when it all comes together!


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

The issue of deeps is weight:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslazy.htm#lighterboxes

The issue of all the same size is certainly worth considering:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslazy.htm#uniformframesize


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## af_newbie (Feb 9, 2011)

Thank you guys for your replies.

I'll go with 10 frames deeps for everything.


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## Daddy'sBees (Jul 1, 2010)

I just hope you don't mind lifting 100 lbs(a 10-frame deep full of honey) off the top of your hives. No problem heh? Go for it "he-man". :lookout: P.S. Just don't complain to us about your back pains and damages!!!


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## af_newbie (Feb 9, 2011)

Thanks for your advice.

If I need to lift 100lb, I'll have someone to help me. 60-70lb I lift on regular basis (concrete mix, seed/wheat bags). But a 165lb anvil gave me a "click" in the back.

I know it is a "hot" topic and I don't want to start arguments, but can't you remove 1-2 outside frames on each side and put them in a spare box before lifting the whole box?

As for harvesting, frames with honey will go to a spare box, then on the garden wagon, to a nearby tractor with a loader. Tractor brings them right up to the extraction room door.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

If you remove four frames and then lift it the frames often shift to an angle and fall out...


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## af_newbie (Feb 9, 2011)

I see. So I guess I'd need to cut out 4 dummy frames or stoppers to put them there before lifting.


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## Birdman (May 8, 2009)

8 frame hive body would cut down the weight. You are olny talking two hives right.


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## soupcan (Jan 2, 2005)

If you use all deeps & have drawn comb to work with use 9 frames in a super.
This will allow for easier uncapping of the frames.
Then one way to cut down on the total weight of the super that needs to be pulled for extraction is to put you frames of foundation on the walls of the honey super when the box is 1st put on the bees.
The bees many times will not draw a frame of foundation when they are placed on the outside of the super unless there is a tremendous honey flow & the hive is very crowded.
This foundation also will make it a lot easier to pull single frames from super if you are going to brush the bees off frame by frame.


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## af_newbie (Feb 9, 2011)

8 frame is a probably a good option but doesn't it give less room for brood and storage for winter?

I'm planning to have 5-6 hives to start with. Not sure if I should put more than one breed or just stick with one.

I don't want to experiment too much especially in the first year, and it seems that commercial operations use 10 frame deeps. I don't want to re-invent the wheel.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Did you ask your bees what "they" prefer? Mine have told me over and over again, they prefer mediums over deeps.


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## af_newbie (Feb 9, 2011)

How did they signal that they prefer mediums? Can you give me examples?


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Oh yes, many. The first few years I kept bees, I did the standard setup. Two deeps as brood chambers and mediums for honey supers. Many times when working the hives I'd complain about how heavy the deeps were, especially in the fall when they were getting filled with more honey. I'd get grumpy and have less patience when I had to lift those boxes. I'd smash more bees and get more stings. I'm pretty sure I even heard them laughing a few times. I finally had enough and took all my deeps and cut them down to mediums. Now I use three mediums for brood chambers, I'm not grumpy cause my back isn't hurting, and my bees gladly fill my medium honey supers. It's a win-win! 

But you sound like you're in your prime yet, so use those deeps while you can. But be forewarned, there will come a time when both you and your bees will prefer mediums.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

The bees have as much room for brood and winter as you leave them. With eight frame mediums I leave a typical cluster four to five boxes. With ten frame mediums I leave a typical cluster three to four boxes. With ten frame deeps I leave a typical cluster two to three deeps.

In my observation, with eight frames the bees winter better because the cluster fits the box. In my observation with mediums the bees winter better because they can move from frame to frame easier. In my observation the queen is quicker to expand into more boxes with mediums than with deeps so she typically will make a bigger brood nest.

But all in all the bees are very adaptable and do fine in almost anything from an old car gas tank to the soffet of a house. The bigger issue is how adaptable you are. When I started beekeeping I was 20 years old and a carpenter. Lifting a 90 pound box was not a big issue. 36 years later working at a desk all day, I still have some of those boxes and it is an issue now and has been for a few decades now... most of them have been cut down to eight frame mediums.


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## delber (Dec 26, 2010)

If I may throw out one more thought. . . In doing the research that I needed / wanted to do to get started in the spring I ran across a sight that had / has some great info. One thing I remember reading is that they winter 3 deeps. The reason why I bring it up is they also are in Canada as you are. This site may be a good resource for you. I'd encourage you to check it out. You can buy supplies from them I think, (I obviously haven't because I'm in Pennsylvania) but their site has some great info. http://www.beeworks.com/index.html In Every location you need to figure out from both experience, and others in your area and elsewhere, what works best. I hope it helps. Happy beekeeping!!!


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## Konrad (Oct 7, 2004)

Barry said:


> Did you ask your bees what "they" prefer? Mine have told me over and over again, they prefer mediums over deeps.


In Canada honey bees prefer deeps.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

The heaviest deep I ever lifted or weighed had 9 frames and weighed 85b pounds. If you have a loader. Put the pulled supers directly into it. Not a problem. Less weight is nice, and pulling some of the frames of that jammed super to lighten it often results in five pounds of leakage. But if you are dollar or should I say loonie challenged, it is much cheaper to go with deeps. It is your life, you decide.


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## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

The weight of a full super does not matter to the original thread. 
"I'll be taking frames one by one" 
Everyone knows a medium weighs more than a shallow. A deep weighs more than a medium, etc. How quick we forget individual frames can be moved just like a top bar hive. I have at least two ladies in my bee workshops that cannot lift a super of any depth or width. They can move frames and have been for a couple years now. 
It is interesting how many people are taking up beekeeping in their retirement lately. Our classes have been full for three years now.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

There is a technique. I've seen much stronger men than me stagger when trying to carry a super of honey. But when I started out I was in a 4,000 hive outfit and having to harvest the crop each year, all deeps, no lifting equipment. 

Under those conditions you learn how to do it with the least possible effort.


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## Merlyn Votaw (Jun 23, 2008)

You will find out the deep ones are heavy when you get older. I am 72 and they get heaver every year.


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## jdpro5010 (Mar 22, 2007)

They all get heavier every year! It is just what you get used to.


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## tarheit (Mar 26, 2003)

> The weight of a full super does not matter to the original thread.
> "I'll be taking frames one by one"
> 
> 
> ...


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I didn't notice it so much when I moved to mediums as when I helped a friend go through a lot of deeps looking for queens. But yes, it's hard on your wrist looking at deeps.


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## WI-beek (Jul 14, 2009)

There is one more advantage to having deeps for brood chambers.

Less frames to go through when looking for the queen!


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>Less frames to go through when looking for the queen! 

But the deeps don't make it any less work.


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## Scrapfe (Jul 25, 2008)

Michael Bush said:


> ... all in all the bees are very adaptable and do fine in almost anything ...The bigger issue is how adaptable you are...


Well said, I feel hobby beekeeping is perhaps headed in the same direction as tournament bass fishing. Where in order to catch fish and then use that success to build a loyal customer base, first the fishing lure maker has to catch the bass fisher person. :lpf:

In other words, deeps, mediums, and shallows are becoming our craw-dad, shad, and frog colors.


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