# Queen envy



## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

Are all races or subspecies of bees capable or making these beautiful long abdomen queens I see posted from time to time on here? Specific ones I remember are two that Oldtimer posted and the latest set of lovely ladies that Lauri posted.

If all queen bees can look like that, then I've only ever had a couple of good ones. 

I used swarm cells and OTS to get queens for splits last year. I did dabble in some cell punching, just to see if I could make it work.

This year my first round of queens will be made by cell punching and then I'm going to try my hand at grafting.

Thanks for all the threads about how to put pollen and open nectar in the cell starters and all the other tips that I have read on here.

I'm going to make some great queens this year if it kills me!


----------



## Buzzsaw2012 (Feb 1, 2012)

I agree the only big ones i get like that are from swarms . The queens that have been coming in packages or that i order aren't much bigger than a old worker.


----------



## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

The queen from the package is usually a caged one.
They will not grow big and long until they started laying
again and well fed by the worker bees. Sometime the queen
producer will use a 2nd batch of graft to produce these
queens. The first graft with lots of strong nurse bees is the one 
that will produce these bigger cells/queens. And nutrition play a big
role when making up the cell builder and the cell finisher.
Consider the snelgrove method to see if you will have the bigger queens this year. I have the small cells comb so not sure if the bigger queen will fit to lay. Either way a well fed local queen will out perform the pedigree type. After 2 cycles of laying I will select the excellent queens to head the hives and mark as potential future breeders. And don't forget to select the 4th day larvae after they are laid. We can compare our notes and queen raising experience here too.


----------



## mtndewluvr (Oct 28, 2012)

I got tired of having constant Queen Envy looking at all of Lauri's queens, so I decided to purchase a couple of her 2015 "pick of the litter" breeder queens. These are queens she would have pulled to the side to evaluate as her own future breeder queens. They should arrive around mid-June. It shouldn't be too hard to compare my queens with her pictures and know if I'm doing it right. I'm excited to get started and have already made a few swarm calls to ensure I have plenty of donor hives for my cell builder(s).


----------



## Matt903 (Apr 8, 2013)

I love looking at those big queens too, but sometimes when it comes to queens, size doesn't matter. I have had dinky looking queens preform beautifully, and nice looking queens preform poorly, (and vice versa). But, people like to see a big looking queen in the cage when they buy one.


----------



## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

With anything, I think there's always an 'art' aspect involved. I've ordered queens from a few different places and here's my take on it. Lauri's virgins were bigger than 95% of the laying queens I've gotten. Sadly, they spent a day in the mailbox at 106, most didn't make it, but the breeder survived. Queens always look seemingly runty when you get them as well and you really need to let them get fed up and their hive plentiful in stores to pass final judgement. I've found the biggest queens are from supercedure for me typically. Walk aways produce a mix, I do try to cull small cells and anything I find capped really quickly. I truly believe Lauri has mastered the 'art' of creating beautiful, large, and healthy queens. That being said, all of the queens i've received, I would call them all at least good, some spectacular.


----------



## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

This frame was laid by a queen I bought this spring. She's nothing spectacular to look at by any stretch, but for her first 2 frames of eggs, I'd say she's well on her way to being a good one. Body wise she looks more like a wasp than a queen. If she keeps this up, she's going to make it to my breeder queen list pretty quickly. I wish she wasn't an Italian, but her daughters would be mated to my drones, so.....

Sorry for the terrible picture quality. I couldn't see the screen on my phone and took the picture one handed while holding the frame.


----------



## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

For an Italian like that I would take one. It is
even better if she is a Cordovan. I keep those here.
Which queen breeder did you bought her from?


----------



## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

beepro said:


> Which queen breeder did you bought her from?


I don't know where she originated, other than GA. A guy in this area sells lots of packages. He drives somewhere in south GA to pick them up.


----------



## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

I'd agree with Beepro - more nurse bees in the Cell Builder, and well-fed makes for giant queens. 

Michael Palmer got me to adding a lot more bees a few years ago and the average queen cell size went way up from single peanut to better than an inch and a half. 

You're setting up a Royal Jelly factory! I imported 9 or 10 frames of capped brood into a 5-box-tall colony (making it a 6-deep-tall colony) 10 days before grafting. 2 days before grafting day, I crowded them down into 4 boxes to induce swarming impulse. The CB colony had the biggest bee beard I ever saw, all day and all night long!


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>If all queen bees can look like that, then I've only ever had a couple of good ones. 

Size really doesn't matter:
http://jinsectscience.oxfordjournals.org/content/11/1/82.abstract


----------



## BigBlackBirds (Aug 26, 2011)

Why would you care what the queen looks like? Meaningless data as far as I'm concerned. We aren't showing livestock at the county fair.

The only thing that matters is performance.


----------



## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Hey, we are humans and have our preferences in what we like.
Someone picky like me likes the Cordovan color queens. I know they are all
mutts anyways. But this is my preference. Don't you have a preference say the black queen over
the yellow queen or vs?


----------



## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

BigBlackBirds said:


> Why would you care what the queen looks like? Meaningless data as far as I'm concerned. We aren't showing livestock at the county fair.
> 
> The only thing that matters is performance.


Then change ur name to blackbirds.


----------



## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

One of the runtiest looking queens I ever had....was laying full frames of solid brood season after season. Finally, partly through her fourth season she failed. I've had any number of big, bodacious queens that could only lay drones. Good and bad...they come in all sizes.


----------



## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

blackbirds......What are those? A crow, jk? Haa, haaa ha!


Dan that reminds me of the ppl I see out here. Full of many flavor. The looks and the inner beauty.
Do we have a perfect 10?


----------



## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

You guys always make me laugh 

Now how about some queen cell envy? 










I'll let you stew on this for a day, then if the temps warm enough tomorrow, will take a pic of the whole frame & give you the scoop.


----------



## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Lauri, your cells look a lot longer compare to mine.
Mine are well fed though a lot smaller. I don't use the jzbz plastic cups but
instead use the Rj production cups to house my graft. I did use the smallest larvae I
can find just day old. These Rj production plastic cups are a few mm bigger and taller. Don't know that matter
or not. But so far everything has been filled in before they capped the cells. They look like fat peanuts when I
regroup them today. So far so good until they hatch.
If they were capped yesterday 4/22 when should I introduce them into the mating nucs?
Also, how many more days does the queen larva eat inside the capped cell before she stop eating the Rj? 

My little fat peanut cells:


----------



## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

Now ur just showing off! I know where you're going with this though, experienced it last year with such disappointment....


----------

