# Police made me move my hives..



## Gtbread (Apr 14, 2014)

So I Finally got 2 hives everything was going good, I figured grandpa had 4 hives in his backyard for years it was ok ,NOPE I know I should have asked the city clerk checked ordinances..... Someone calls the cops -find out bees are not allowed in the city limits they give me a few days to move them .
So I move them last night it was cool out they were still very unhappy ,only got stung like 8 times . 
Took them to in laws they are in a woodsy spot they called this morning said they are going in and out of the hives , I am going out later to make sure they are sitting stable and all it was getting pretty late when I got them restacked and all. and the bees were pretty pissed so I left about 1130 pm.
Question -ideas ,are they going to recover or do alright? . they were both full of honey on the 1st super and I had just added a 2nd one a couple nights ago. Thanks david


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## phyber (Apr 14, 2015)

if they are reorienting to their new spot, and you left them with a safe and secure home, they should be good.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

They should be just fine. Stung 8 times...? I've moved six this year in the dark or early morning hours and haven't had a single sting. What in the world are you doing to them?


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## Billboard (Dec 28, 2014)

Don't you hate nieghbors that have nothing better to do than tell on others. That is the exact reason mine are hidden. My town doesn't allow bees either in subdivisions and your yard is suppose to be a certain minimum size. My yard qualifies but I'm in a subdivision. I'm at the end in a culdasac and have woods behind me and a creek. But mine are hidden good. No neighbors have said anything about a increase of bees. So I'm adding a couple more hives next year.


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## brettj777 (Feb 27, 2013)

Billboard said:


> Don't you hate nieghbors that have nothing better to do than tell on others. That is the exact reason mine are hidden. My town doesn't allow bees either in subdivisions and your yard is suppose to be a certain minimum size. My yard qualifies but I'm in a subdivision. I'm at the end in a culdasac and have woods behind me and a creek. But mine are hidden good. No neighbors have said anything about a increase of bees. So I'm adding a couple more hives next year.


Don't you hate beekeepers who think they are above the law and don't' care to put in the work necessary to get the ordinance changed? I mean really all that education and advocacy...who needs that. I don't care about anyone else, I will just keep my bees.

#facepalm


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## Billboard (Dec 28, 2014)

They are working on it pal never said anything like that. And you said I'm above the law not me. But if they would just mind their own business all would be good. It's not like there's satanic rituals going on.


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## Billboard (Dec 28, 2014)

brettj777 said:


> Don't you hate beekeepers who think they are above the law and don't' care to put in the work necessary to get the ordinance changed? I mean really all that education and advocacy...who needs that. I don't care about anyone else, I will just keep my bees.
> 
> #facepalm


Last I thought this was America a free nation. Everyday our liberties are being taken away. So if I want to keep bees it's my god given right to do so.


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## Barry Digman (May 21, 2003)

Just a reminder from the rules of this forum:



> Language/Profanity. It is not acceptable to infer the use of a profane word by an acronym, or using **** or $^@*!. By the use of such characters it's being acknowledged by the user that the word implied isn't acceptable. Do not use language that is lewd, vulgar, coarse, off-color, crass, derogatory, or obscene. Respect the sites desire to not have any form of suggestive language used in its forums.


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## Westhill (Jul 26, 2012)

I'm with Billboard. Most anti-bee ordinances are because people are ignorant and scared of bees, not because the bees do anything harmful. I also have my hive hidden and surrounded by fences, trees, and buildings because my yard is technically too small to have bees in, according to local ordinances. The bees fly straight up to the stratosphere before heading out to forage and not one of my neighbors can even see them as they fly high over their yards. No one knows, no one cares, all the gardens and fruit trees around here are doing great, no one knows why, and I'm not gonna tell them.

If it is legal to keep bees on an apartment balcony in New York City, where people are totally jammed together, (and it is legal), then I don't see why I can't have them on my 40 x 100 foot lot. Just the stupidity of local laws.

Gtbread I'm glad you found a safe place to move them to. Sounds like they will do well and I'm glad your inlaws are happy about having bees.


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## trottet1 (Jul 18, 2013)

Billboard said:


> Last I thought this was America a free nation. Everyday our liberties are being taken away. So if I want to keep bees it's my god given right to do so.



You totally missed brettj's point. And you do feel you are above the law. Your town ordinance says that you can not have them and you said you have them hidden because it is your god given right. It's not your god given right. We have laws and regulations that a civilized society has set forth. Yes, some of these rules are stupid, as in your case. But brett point was why not keep fighting the town and the ordinance and fix the law. As opposed to just breaking the law. Read your posts again, you contradict yourself pretty badly.


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

Billboard said:


> Last I thought this was America a free nation. Everyday our liberties are being taken away. So if I want to keep bees it's my god given right to do so.


We all love our "god given rights" until a neighbor decides to exercise their "god given right" to do something we don't like. Like run a junk business in their yard, or house a rock band in the garage, or park on our lawn or use the street as a drag strip or house a pack of free-range snarly dogs . 

I'm sure the neighbors that complain feel they have a "god given right" to not have bees next door and since "America is a free nation," they couldn't be forced to have bee hives move in next door.

The "god given right" and the "I thought America was a free nation" argument is just silly. Few laws will ever please everyone and it's silly to think that. 

Enough beekeepers in the area could work to change Lodi, Wisconsin's law. 

Wayne


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## frustrateddrone (Jan 31, 2015)

Always know the laws prior to upstart in some project like beekeeping. It's not a problem until someone complains. My neighbor called the HOA prez when I started putting hives up. HOA President didn't have anything to say to me cause it's not in the Rules. Amazing cause we have some dumb rules, thankfully we don't have uppity people in our neighborhood.


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## thehackleguy (Jul 29, 2014)

trottet1 said:


> We have laws and regulations that a civilized society has set forth.


 Actually most of the laws that are "stupid" are set forth by groups with a lot of money and their own agenda. I think it is funny when someone says that in a democracy "majority rules". Well, that is not how it is supposed to work, even small groups and minorities are supposed to have "equal representation and protection" which they rarely to in today's world no matter where you live.


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## BeeGora (Oct 22, 2013)

I'd put an empty beehive in the yard and go out occasionally in my suit with the smoker pretending that I still had bees.


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## thehackleguy (Jul 29, 2014)

BeeGora said:


> I'd put an empty beehive in the yard and go out occasionally in my suit with the smoker pretending that I still had bees.


:lpf: *BRILLIANT! *


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## photobiker (Mar 23, 2015)

Well with the news about the bee population failing and the need for pollinators I would think this would be a great opportunity to have the ordinance changed. Get some local beekeepers help you educate the powers at be.


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## trottet1 (Jul 18, 2013)

thehackleguy said:


> Actually most of the laws that are "stupid" are set forth by groups with a lot of money and their own agenda. I think it is funny when someone says that in a democracy "majority rules". Well, that is not how it is supposed to work, even small groups and minorities are supposed to have "equal representation and protection" which they rarely to in today's world no matter where you live.


Yea, not in this particular case. In this case, the ordinance is based on ignorance. Not some anti bee agenda. It is our job as bee enthusiasts to educate this ignorance in a diplomatic fashion.


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## bigben66 (Jul 14, 2013)

Come on down to Georgia.

State Law #2-14-41.1. Prohibition against restriction of honeybee production or maintenance.
No county, municipal corporation, consolidated government, or other political subdivision of this state shall adopt or continue in effect any ordinance, rule, regulation, or resolution prohibiting, impeding, or restricting the establishment or maintenance of honeybees in hives. This Code section shall not be construed to restrict the zoning authority of county or municipal governments.


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## maudbid (Jul 21, 2014)

Look up the difference between malum prohibitum and malum in se laws. I personally choose which malum prohibitum laws I follow based on my own guidelines. I've long ago learned I cannot go through a day without violating numerous of the malum prohibitum laws on the books even if I were to try.


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## GSkip (Dec 28, 2014)

I would build lawn furniture to resemble bee hives to drive the neighbor who complained crazy. Make a mail box post from old hives!


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

BeeGora said:


> I'd put an empty beehive in the yard and go out occasionally in my suit with the smoker pretending that I still had bees.


Yeah, and then when the authorities come to tell you to move it, tell them no, you have no bees. Then when they threaten you, tell them they are not coming on your property without a warrant. When they come back with a warrant wouldn't they feel silly. Unless, the ordinance states, no beehives, instead of no honeybees or colonies.
Civil disobedience is one of the great things about our country.

Alex


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## stan.vick (Dec 19, 2010)

I have to applaud my state "Georgia" which has laws that protect a beekeepers' right to keep bees and makes it illegal for municipalities to create ordinances against the keeping of bees. I know one large city that made those ordinances anyway, and the beekeepers just go ahead and keep them, quoting the state law when confronted, the city has yet to write a citation because they don't want to test it in court.


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## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

I have to laugh at people who think getting a city ordinance to change is "so easy a caveman can do it", especially when it involves bees or anything else that scares people. Just because you marched down to City Hall or went to a council meeting doesn't mean the city will approve it. I live in hippy, liberal infested California and only a handful of cities say you can legally keep bees........one of them is a safe haven for immigrants (San Fransisco) and the other has a bee keeper that is the mayor. Our city allows bee keeping as long as the hives are registered, you own 1/2 acre, you can place the hives 100' from any fence and something else.......I know of one place in city limits that has 1/2 acre, and they wont allow bees to be placed.

I work for a city, and I will tell you this, its easier to ask for forgiveness than beg for permission. We have to go through a permit application process to cut a tree down that is on our own property (80% denial rate), and its the homeowners responsibility to fix the uneven sidewalk that was created by the said tree, you know, the one that the city wont let you cut down!

I remodel without a permit, I have recently had a tree removed on the weekend and I have had a cellbuilder in my back yard temporarily. I havnt gotten into trouble yet and havnt been denied anything I chose to do either.


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## photobiker (Mar 23, 2015)

Seems Gtbread has tried the don't ask avenue. I wouldn't say it would be simple or easy to get a regulation/ordinance changed but that is his only next step if he wants to have bees in his yard. San Fran, your not going to change anything that is not politically driven or puts money in someones pocket. Small towns and cities are more open to change especially if it has a feel good theme, look what we have done.
I as well work for a municipality and know how the game works.


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## JConnolly (Feb 21, 2015)

I suggest a constructive approach.

When I google "Lodi Wisconsin beekeeping laws" it looks like there is an organization right in your area that is promoting local bee keeping. You should contact them.

I suggest you also find out what the law really is. Police are not always right, and sometimes they ignorant of the law and make stuff up. So do not assume that just because the police said beekeeping is against the law that it is. It almost never is outright prohibited, though there may be rules on number of hives and property sizes, etc. If beekeeping is not prohibited by city statute then find out which Wisconsin laws govern bee keeping and know them. If your state requires that you register as a bee keeper (many states do) then do that right away - being able to show a a state beekeeper registration certificate to a police officer who doesn't know what the laws are can help you when discussing with them your rights to keep bees. It will change the tone of the conversation. It helps if you can also cite the statute numbers. 

If bee keeping is prohibited by city statute then contact the local bee keeping organization and petition your city council to change the law. Most people know bees are beneficial and you chances of success are pretty good.

There is a link to state by state bee laws at the top of the forum.


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## bean tree homestead (Nov 18, 2013)

The closer you live to other people the less personal freedoms you have..sorry to hear it.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Billboard said:


> It's not like there's satanic rituals going on.


THAT would be constitutionally protected religious freedom. 

Sorry man - shoulda' hid 'em. Yes, I am an outlaw.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

BeeGora said:


> I'd put an empty beehive in the yard and go out occasionally in my suit with the smoker pretending that I still had bees.


And put a hummingbird feeder inside of it.


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## tommyt (Aug 7, 2010)

I may be wrong but I believe there are bees in NYC and many other city's 
Die to the 

RIGHT to FARM Act.

I know that's what did it in Florida 
I'd you look it up you may want to,bring it too 
Your county commissioners and be sure to call your Ag Dept. and ask them what they know


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## Kenww (Apr 14, 2013)

I'd find something legal but much more annoying to put in the yard instead. Maybe borrow some friends' dogs for a while.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

I think the real issue is the neighbor. They called the police. We would all like to make our own rules and carry a six shooter for people who don't see it our way but time has proven that that era was not our greatest moments. The written law really does not mean anything if the problem is the neighbor. For 2.98 he can buy a can of Raid and exercise his God given write to kill insects.

Why did the problem occur with the neighbor?


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## larryh (Jul 28, 2014)

Kenww said:


> I'd find something legal but much more annoying to put in the yard instead. Maybe borrow some friends' dogs for a while.


Dogs.....can I send my neighbors dogs? Obnoxious, yappy little make my blood boil.inch:


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

Man I love being a farm boy. 

What irritates me is people who move from the city to gain their freedom, then complain about smells out in the country. Who'da thunk a cow pasture would smell like cow poop?


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## Slow Drone (Apr 19, 2014)

If the ordinance specifically names honey bees and does not name bumble bees keep them.


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## marshmasterpat (Jun 26, 2013)

maudbid said:


> Look up the difference between malum prohibitum and malum in se laws. I personally choose which malum prohibitum laws I follow based on my own guidelines. I've long ago learned I cannot go through a day without violating numerous of the malum prohibitum laws on the books even if I were to try.


:scratch: Don't really know what that means, but I hope that was polite cause the mean monitor is watching . Don't want no body banned. :lookout:


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## NewbeeInNH (Jul 10, 2012)

Even the White House has bees on their lawn. 

What in the world is wrong with having a beehive.

I wouldn't live in an area like that.

They should ban something bothersome, like mosquitoes.


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## mcon672 (Mar 5, 2015)

If I break the speed limit by 2 or 3 mph does that mean I think I'm above the law? What if I set off fireworks on the 4th in WV? We all probably bend a few laws every now and then. I like the should of hid them better line of thinking. Move to the country where you can have all the hives you want and shoot your AR off of your back porch all day long. (Crazy right? Legal for my AR but I can't have bottle rockets)


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

Make no mistake about it... we may have the title "land of the free", but it hasn't been that way for a very, very long time.


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## thehackleguy (Jul 29, 2014)

Mr.Beeman said:


> Make no mistake about it... we may have the title "land of the free", but it hasn't been that way for a very, very long time.


That is the truth!


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## Gtbread (Apr 14, 2014)

Thanks Barry and all,I seem to have been Hijacked by an agenda . I did get good info ,and some peace of mind ,that my Girls will be alright ,I checked on them and they were happy in there new digs .I filled the feeder for them . a couple must have recognized me since i had harassed them now 3 days in a row ,they kept following me and wanting to nail me. 
I will say I am next to a funeral home and one hive swarmed when they were moving a casket . the bees stayed way up in the air since i had them on the roof . But it was an impressive sight for me but probably scary for the funeral home directors /workers doing there job. they are now out in the country in a woodsy place about 10 miles away so less enjoying for me and a little worry of **** and such . but they are near to the in-laws home .and I am getting regular reports . Bees are fascinating. I want more ..
Thanks all God Bless you, david


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

Billboard said:


> So if I want to keep bees it's my god given right to do so.


Ah yes, the ol' 28th Amendment.


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## Cabin (Nov 30, 2014)

Nabber86 said:


> Ah yes, the ol' 28th Amendment.


The 9th Amendment??

I love being in an ag. security zone.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

Cabin said:


> The 9th Amendment??



Beekeeping is not a right.


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## Beesure! (Apr 24, 2012)

Its always the minority that cause the problems of unjust laws to be past, common sense is not always conveyed.


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## cgybees (Apr 20, 2015)

Billboard said:


> They are working on it pal never said anything like that. And you said I'm above the law not me. But if they would just mind their own business all would be good. It's not like there's satanic rituals going on.


The thought of satanic rituals involving bees made me giggle out loud... thanks...

"We hail thee, great lord Satan, lord of the bee... OUCH! *swat... swat*.. we implore thee for guidance in ... OUCH.. *swat swat*...oh, to heck with it, I'm going back to that religion with less stings..."


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## cgybees (Apr 20, 2015)

Barry Digman said:


> Just a reminder from the rules of this forum:


Hey, I hear every day liberties are being taken away, and if Billboard wants to use unacceptable words, I suspect he thinks it's his god given right to do so...


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## cgybees (Apr 20, 2015)

thehackleguy said:


> :lpf: *BRILLIANT! *



Unless the bylaw prohibits equipment.. :>


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## trottet1 (Jul 18, 2013)

Then go and fight it at a state level. If enough of the bee organizations in a particular state work together, it can be done. I don't think anyone said it would be easy.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

trottet1 said:


> Then go and fight it at a state level. If enough of the bee organizations in a particular state work together, it can be done. I don't think anyone said it would be easy.


The state really has no say in local ordinances.


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## trottet1 (Jul 18, 2013)

Nabber86 said:


> The state really has no say in local ordinances.


 100 percent false. Someone here states that Georgia over ruled and made it illegal for municipalities to forbid beekeeping. And where I am from here in jersey, same thing. It actually just happened a week or so ago.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

trottet1 said:


> 100 percent false. Someone here states that Georgia over ruled and made it illegal for municipalities to forbid beekeeping. And where I am from here in jersey, same thing. It actually just happened a week or so ago.


Are you sure about that? I believe you are referencing this Georgia state code. It starts out great, but please read the last sentence very, very carefully:

*§ 2-14-41.1. Prohibition against restriction of honeybee production or maintenance*.
No county, municipal corporation, consolidated government, or other political subdivision of this state shall adopt or continue in effect any ordinance, rule, regulation, or resolution prohibiting, impeding, or restricting the establishment or maintenance of honeybees in hives. This Code section shall not be construed to restrict the zoning authority of county or municipal governments.

If you are confused, here is a hint: Local government can't pass ordinances, rules, regulations, or resolutions prohibiting beekeeping, but they can pass and uphold codes. 

Here is a link: http://agr.georgia.gov/Data/Sites/1/media/ag_plantindustry/plant_protection/files/2-14-40beelaw.pdf





Also people need to stop citing the Right to Farm Act. It does not apply to backyard beekeepers. Here is a link to the Georgia's Right to Farm Code: 

*§ **41-1-7. Treatment of agricultural facilities and operations and forest land as nuisances:
*http://www.farmlandinfo.org/sites/default/files/GA_41-1-7_1.htm

Note the definition of the terms "Agriculture area" and "Agriculture facility" and ponder if your suburban backyard fits these definitions.


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## trottet1 (Jul 18, 2013)

I did not read the Georgia laws and that is why I also gave NJ as an example. This one I gave a pretty good read, unless I missed something or misinterpreted the read.

http://www.northjersey.com/mobile/n...-stop-towns-from-banning-beekeeping-1.1001562

I believe at the time of this article, the legislation was pending. I fail to find the announcement that governor Christie passed this last week. In either case, it shows that we can make diplomatic advances in law reform.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

trottet1 said:


> I did not read the Georgia laws and that is why I also gave NJ as an example. This one I gave a pretty good read, unless I missed something or misinterpreted the read.
> 
> http://www.northjersey.com/mobile/n...-stop-towns-from-banning-beekeeping-1.1001562
> 
> I believe at the time of this article, the legislation was pending. I fail to find the announcement that governor Christie passed this last week. In either case, it shows that we can make diplomatic advances in law reform.



That is a news article talking about pending legislation and I wouldn't be claiming anything based on it. Here is a link to the bill: 

http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2014/Bills/A1500/1294_R1.HTM

It is pretty vague and looks suspiciously similar to the Georgia's (or any other state's) Right to Farm laws (which makes sense because they are all based on the same Federal legislation, i.e, they are all going to read they same). The article you provided a link to, _loosely_ interprets the bill as granting the right for anyone in NJ to keep bees anywhere they want to. After the bill is enacted, we can continue this conversation.

Please note that the old saying "Don't shoot the messenger" applies here. I am just telling you how it is. As a libertarian, I think anyone should be allowed to keep bees anywhere they want to, until you violate somebody else's right to not be affected by your nuisance.


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## Ekosshadow (Feb 26, 2014)

Nabber86 said:


> Also people need to stop citing the Right to Farm Act. It does not apply to backyard beekeepers. Here is a link to the Georgia's Right to Farm Code:
> 
> *§ **41-1-7. Treatment of agricultural facilities and operations and forest land as nuisances:
> *http://www.farmlandinfo.org/sites/default/files/GA_41-1-7_1.htm
> ...


I have to disagree with your reading of the OCGA 41-1-7. I believe it clearly applies to all beekeeping within the great state of Georgia. It defines the keeping of honeybees as an agricultural operation, making the hives and possibly your home (during extractions) an agricultural facility. 

Where the local authorities can get us is via zoning of the individual properties. If it's not zoned agricultural then there may be limits or prohibitions against agricultural facilities. In the past municipalities have used these definitions to infer that honeybees are livestock, which may cause many conflicts with local residential and commercial zoning.


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## trottet1 (Jul 18, 2013)

I actually did read last week that it was approved and passed. I just can't seem to find it as I have already invested way too much time into this thread. I guess my original point is, there is no God given rights, but we do have rights and power to change things if we so choose to atleast try.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

Ekosshadow said:


> I have to disagree with your reading of the OCGA 41-1-7. I believe it clearly applies to all beekeeping within the great state of Georgia. It defines the keeping of honeybees as an agricultural operation, making the hives and possibly your home (during extractions) an agricultural facility.
> 
> Where the local authorities can get us is via zoning of the individual properties. If it's not zoned agricultural then there may be limits or prohibitions against agricultural facilities. In the past municipalities have used these definitions to infer that honeybees are livestock, which may cause many conflicts with local residential and commercial zoning.


_*"Agricultural area" means any land which is, or may be, legally used for an agricultural operation under applicable zoning laws, rules, and regulations at the time of commencement of the agricultural operation *_

This means that if your property is not zoned as agricultural, it does not apply to you. Very few people a city are living on land that is zoned as agricultural so it does not apply to backyard beekeepers. 


_*Any land which is not subject to zoning laws, rules, and regulations at the time of commencement of an agricultural operation of an agricultural facility and throughout the first year of operation of such agricultural facility shall be deemed an "agricultural area" for purposes of this Code section.*_

This gives you some room to fight if your land is not zoned and you begin an agricultural operation. If you meet the conditions your land may be zoned agricultural (grandfather clause). 


 _* (2) "Agricultural facility" includes, but is not limited to, any land, building, structure, pond, impoundment, appurtenance, machinery, or equipment which is used for the commercial production or processing of crops, livestock, animals, poultry, honeybees, honeybee products, livestock products, poultry products, timber, forest products, or products which are used in commercial aquaculture. Such term shall also include any farm labor camp or facilities for migrant farm workers.*_

I doubt any suburbanite meets the above criteria. Note the definition includes the the term "commercial production". Even if you sell honey to your friends and neighbors, or even sell at a farmer's market, a couple of hives does not constitute commercial production is most jurisdictions. 

_*(3) "Agricultural operation" means:

 (A) The plowing, tilling, or preparation of soil at an agricultural facility;

 (B) The planting, growing, fertilizing, harvesting, or otherwise maintaining of crops as defined in Code Section 1-3-3 and also timber and trees that are grown for purposes other than for harvest and for sale;

 (C) The application of pesticides, herbicides, or other chemicals, compounds, or substances to crops, weeds, or soil in connection with the production of crops, timber, livestock, animals, or poultry;
*_
Again, most of the above does apply to a suburban area.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

trottet1 said:


> I actually did read last week that it was approved and passed. I just can't seem to find it as I have already invested way too much time into this thread. I guess my original point is, there is no God given rights, but we do have rights and power to change things if we so choose to atleast try.


No argument there. I would be surprised if it did, but I hope it works out.


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## Ekosshadow (Feb 26, 2014)

Nabber86 said:


> This means that if your property is not zoned as agricultural, it does not apply to you. Very few people a city are living on land that is zoned as agricultural so it does not apply to backyard beekeepers.


This is a huge assumption. I own property in multiple counties of Georgia and zoning laws differ greatly between them. You have to look at the specific municipality to determine the truth of this on a case by case basis.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

Ekosshadow said:


> This is a huge assumption. I own property in multiple counties of Georgia and zoning laws differ greatly between them. You have to look at the specific municipality to determine the truth of this on a case by case basis.


Counties yes, but I don't think it is a huge assumption to say that most people living within a city are not on agriculturally zoned land. 

Anyway if you are ag zoned it a city, there is no problem, so carry on as you wish.


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## Ekosshadow (Feb 26, 2014)

Nabber86 said:


> Counties yes, but I don't think it is a huge assumption to say that most people living within a city are not on agriculturally zoned land.
> 
> Anyway if you are ag zoned it a city, there is no problem, so carry on as you wish.


I am speaking of residential zoning, county or city doesn't matter. Many local codes in Georgia allow for agricultural use on residential zoning though often limited. My point is that the language is not cut and paste between individual municipalities down here. 

We're such an old state and we've got so many old and archaic laws on the books down here it's sometimes humorous reading through them. I just read one residential restriction that says I "cannot sell large livestock from the property unless the parking area is set back at least 25 feet from the property line." Another property, another county, specifically states "no poultry or livestock may be kept", apparently there is a difference. If neighbors start complaining down here, trying to decode how the law applies to honeybees may come down to how good of a lawyer each side has. The beeks vs the city of Savannah has been through years of battles trying to make everybody happy in how the laws are applied. Happily, I technically live in a neighboring municipality.

To each there own in whether they decide to follow or ignore the letter of the law.

Outside of the legalities, I've found that a neighbor with that "questioning look" in his eye is often put at ease with a simple show and tell of some bee equipment and a free jar of honey or cut comb. Tell him it's honey from his flowers, he'll be bragging to all his family members about how great it is.


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## gnor (Jun 3, 2015)

Westhill said:


> If it is legal to keep bees on an apartment balcony in New York City, where people are totally jammed together, (and it is legal), then I don't see why I can't have them on my 40 x 100 foot lot. Just the stupidity of local laws.


There are still a lot of those laws out there, but more are getting repealed all the time. If you feel that strongly about it, why don't you get together with some like minded people and see if you can get it overturned?
Breaking the law just makes you look bad, and doesn't do much for the public image of beekeepers in general.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

Ekosshadow said:


> I am speaking of residential zoning, county or city doesn't matter. Many local codes in Georgia allow for agricultural use on residential zoning though often limited. My point is that the language is not cut and paste between individual municipalities down here.


 
I agree it is not cut and dry. Let me back up a little and re-state my points.

Don’t assume the land where you keep your bees is ag zoned because you consider a couple of hives an “ag operation” and a honey extractor in your kitchen is an “ag facility”.

Don’t assume that local codes are written in your favor, despite State and Federal laws that appear to help you.

A Right to Farm law is probably not going to help you if the land is not clearly ag zoned and you do not have a legitimate ag operation. 

Do some homework and try to find out. It may be complicated in your area, but sometimes it is as easy as googling “X county, Y state zoning” or “X city, Y state zoning”. Admittedly I live in Kansas and it is really easy to figure it out. You can download aerial maps that show plot lines and zoning for just about any piece of property. 

I fully support the “beg for forgiveness” approach to local zoning, but don’t fool yourself because you have gotten away with it.

IANAL and I am not trying to give out legal advice. I am just trying to point out some of the pitfalls in an attempt to alleviate someone’s pending grief.


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

Put a speaker in the boxes and make it buzz? Might stop getting mail, though.

There have been some successes getting beekeeping approved in some communities. Bees get pretty good press and public sympathy these days. Philadelphia has, I'm told, NEVER had rules against it. Langstroth's home town, you know. They make a good example of hives in the city.

http://hivesinthecity.com/


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## Ekosshadow (Feb 26, 2014)

Nabber86 said:


> I agree it is not cut and dry. Let me back up a little and re-state my points.
> 
> Don’t assume the land where you keep your bees is ag zoned because you consider a couple of hives an “ag operation” and a honey extractor in your kitchen is an “ag facility”.
> 
> ...



Funny, I think we're both arguing the same point, don't make assumptions. I think we're tackling it from opposite sides of the coin. My caution is that being a backyard beekeeper may cause you to fall under agricultural laws.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

Ekosshadow said:


> Funny, I think we're both arguing the same point, don't make assumptions. I think we're tackling it from opposite sides of the coin. My caution is that being a backyard beekeeper may cause you to fall under agricultural laws.


The ol' Bee Source switcharoo. I will have to refocus and think about the point from the other side. Is there a downside to falling under ag law? I think I would rather deal with that than local codes and regs. But I don't know. :scratch:


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

There really aren't any regulations regarding bees in Colorado, and I do run a few hives in town. Aurora (Denver) used to have code describing how urban bees would be kept. I don't know if that code is still in place or not but when running hives in town I always defer to that code, even if we don't have one, such as I only run 2 hives in any given location and any splits I make into nucs get moved soon after. I do know if the cops told me I had to move a set of hives (within the city limits) the hives would be gone within 48 hours, even if I was "in the right". The commercial near me once said that if you move hives in somewhere and someone starts raising a big stink, move them back out, it's the lesser of the evils. He's been a beekeeper for 70 years. I respect his wisdom. Now out in the county where my bees are on A-1 zoned land... I'm smart enough not to have them too close to someone's house or fenced in animals and most are on my land or family owned land so there would have to be an earth shattering peeing contest before those got moved. I'm not unreasonable, if someone had an extremely relevant argument why they shouldn't be where they are located I would consider moving them. My outyards though, if the owner of the property told me to move my bees they would be gone in less than 48, no questions asked. 

If anyone thinks they're in the right, get a lawyer and test it  It's easier to move them in my opinion. Like the commercial said, "Out of sight, out of mind." :thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

I think these ordinances get placed because some folks are plain ignorant when it come to public safety.

Several people around where I live have bees. From walking down the road one would never know there were hives within miles.

Another property rents out its barn and paddocks. The person who rented the property could have tucked some hives out of sight and out of mind but they probably would have bees flying where they walk the horses and do cores. So in order to avoid that they placed them out on the city Boulevard facing the road and common footpath...like 6' or less from the front of the hives. They did erect a 3' high open link fence on stakes and put up a few huge signs with "BEES" written on them. That is the type of folk who keep the beaurocrats printing up restrictive regulations. I am grateful she is not my neighbour.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

rwurster said:


> There really aren't any regulations regarding bees in Colorado, and I do run a few hives in town. Aurora (Denver) used to have code describing how urban bees would be kept. I don't know if that code is still in place or not but when running hives in town I always defer to that code, even if we don't have one, such as I only run 2 hives in any given location and any splits I make into nucs get moved soon after. I do know if the cops told me I had to move a set of hives (within the city limits) the hives would be gone within 48 hours, even if I was "in the right". The commercial near me once said that if you move hives in somewhere and someone starts raising a big stink, move them back out, it's the lesser of the evils. He's been a beekeeper for 70 years. I respect his wisdom......



That is the most eloquent post that I have ever read on Bessource. I might be a jerk to people that I don't know on the interwebs, but respecting your neighbors is paramount.


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## jadebees (May 9, 2013)

People that are always harping on "Rules You Broke", would stay in a job they hated for 30 years just to become the person who tells others what to do. And they are miserable people inside too. Naggers! A word you still can say.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

jadebees said:


> People that are always harping on "Rules You Broke", would stay in a job they hated for 30 years just to become the person who tells others what to do. And they are miserable people inside too. Naggers! A word you still can say.


Who, me?


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## MikeinCarolina (Mar 9, 2014)

BeeGora said:


> I'd put an empty beehive in the yard and go out occasionally in my suit with the smoker pretending that I still had bees.


And paint the outer cover like a Confederate flag.


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## jadebees (May 9, 2013)

If you know who turned you in, you could sling Lemongrass oil or some other good swarm lure under their car fenders and house eaves.


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

I must have missed the part where the original poster asked for suggestions on how to act like a vindictive little child.

Wayne


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## jadebees (May 9, 2013)

Relax, thats just a snarky joke. And a waste of good lure.


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## BeinAl (May 24, 2014)

waynesgarden said:


> I must have missed the part where the original poster asked for suggestions on how to act like a vindictive little child.
> 
> Wayne


^This


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## BeinAl (May 24, 2014)

Nabber86 said:


> Are you sure about that? I believe you are referencing this Georgia state code. It starts out great, but please read the last sentence very, very carefully:
> 
> *§ 2-14-41.1. Prohibition against restriction of honeybee production or maintenance*.
> No county, municipal corporation, consolidated government, or other political subdivision of this state shall adopt or continue in effect any ordinance, rule, regulation, or resolution prohibiting, impeding, or restricting the establishment or maintenance of honeybees in hives. This Code section shall not be construed to restrict the zoning authority of county or municipal governments.
> ...


http://agr.georgia.gov/honey-bees.aspx


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

BeinAl said:


> http://agr.georgia.gov/honey-bees.aspx


Right. And that points right back to where I was going:


O.C.G.A. § 2-14-41.1 
GEORGIA CODE
Copyright 2014 by The State of Georgia
All rights reserved.
*** Current Through the 2014 Regular Session ***
TITLE 2. AGRICULTURE 
CHAPTER 14. SALE OF AGRICULTURAL AND FOREST PRODUCTS 
ARTICLE 3. HONEYBEES 
O.C.G.A. § 2-14-41.1 (2014)
§ 2-14-41.1. Prohibition against restriction of honeybee production or maintenance 

 No county, municipal corporation, consolidated government, or other political subdivision of this state shall adopt or continue in effect any ordinance, rule, regulation, or resolution prohibiting, impeding, or restricting the establishment or maintenance of honeybees in hives. *This Code section shall not be construed to restrict the zoning authority of county or municipal governments*.

http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/gacode/Default.asp

What the first sentence giveth (by the State), the second sentence taketh away (by local codes).


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## stan.vick (Dec 19, 2010)

What the Ga. code is saying is that honey bees can not be specifically excluded, yet a zone such as a commercial one can have a general exclusion of almost all things except a commercial business. You could not have a residence, chickens, dogs, bees, or even unapproved plants in most commercial zones. To say that they could be excluded by local "codes" is wrong because a code is just another word for a law or a regulation. There are technical differences between a code, a law and a regulation, but they are enforced the same. They are just different in the way they are created 
So to say "what the first sentence giveth the second takes away" is misleading, Unlike others I did no research on the subject, I just used my twenty eight years of enforcing Ga. laws, Ga. codes, and Ga. regulations as a guide.


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## my2cents (Jul 9, 2015)

Why not apply to the city council for a zoning variance ? A great opportunity to work with the city council to educate them and set an example . Go to a council meeting and speak to them. 
My2cents


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

stan.vick said:


> What the Ga. code is saying is that honey bees can not be specifically excluded, yet a zone such as a commercial one can have a general exclusion of almost all things except a commercial business. You could not have a residence, chickens, dogs, bees, or even unapproved plants in most commercial zones. To say that they could be excluded by local "codes" is wrong because a code is just another word for a law or a regulation. There are technical differences between a code, a law and a regulation, but they are enforced the same. They are just different in the way they are created
> 
> So to say "what the first sentence giveth the second takes away" is misleading, Unlike others I did no research on the subject, I just used my twenty eight years of enforcing Ga. laws, Ga. codes, and Ga. regulations as a guide.


That State passed a law saying that local government entities can not pass laws restricting bee keeping. But then goes on to except zoning. My use of the term code is wrong as I should have said zoning. Anyway, I read enough codes to understand what those 2 sentences mean. It fact you don't have to know anything about Georgia law to understand what it is saying. Local zoning can take away your State given right to keep bees. It's as simple as that. 

I hate to bring this example up, but it provides a good analogy.

Second amendment = Federal right to bear arms

Kansas Senate Bill 45 signed into law this Spring = right to open carry 

Local codes/zoning = no handguns in the park, within 100 feet of a school or daycare facility, etc., etc. it all depends on what municipality you live in.

What the Feds/State sentence giveth, the City sentence taketh away.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

my2cents said:


> Why not apply to the city council for a zoning variance ? A great opportunity to work with the city council to educate them and set an example . Go to a council meeting and speak to them.
> My2cents


An that is exactly the way to go about it. The City counsel is not going to cooperate (do they ever cooperate?) if you go in there demanding to keep bees because State says so. You would be wrong, the counsel knows it, and then you have put them into the position of showing you who is boss. You have to talk (nicely) to the City counsel members, lobby, do a presentation, and request a vote. You may have to do this several times over the course of a few years before it gets through. The more people that you drum up for support will help. A lot of cities have some king of a sustainability / green initiative committee. That would be the perfect place to start.


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

Nabber86 said:


> ....The City counsel is not going to cooperate (do they ever cooperate?)


My daughter worked to change the law prohibiting the keeping of chickens with the limits of her city and was successful in convincing the city council to permit them. Unfortunately, the mayor vetoed the bill. 

Sometimes, they do cooperate.

Wayne


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

waynesgarden said:


> My daughter worked to change the law prohibiting the keeping of chickens with the limits of her city and was successful in convincing the city council to permit them. Unfortunately, the mayor vetoed the bill.
> 
> Sometimes, they do cooperate.
> 
> Wayne


Yes, sometimes. But, not if you go in there claiming you have a right because of a State Statute. That's is why I said: 

_You have to talk (nicely) to the City counsel members, lobby, do a presentation, and request a vote. You may have to do this several times over the course of a few years before it gets through. The more people that you drum up for support will help. A lot of cities have some king of a sustainability / green initiative committee. That would be the perfect place to start._


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