# Pollen sub mixer?



## George (Sep 14, 2014)

Hi, I am wondering what type of mixers do large operations use for mixing pollen sub.
I know some use mortar type mixers.
What hp motor and is it belt driven or other.
Thanks George


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## davidsbees (Feb 22, 2010)

I use a 13 hp pan mixer easily mix 10k a day


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

What brand are you using? That sounds like it is likely a gas powered motor. Where did you get it? Cost?

Jean-Marc


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

I just did a search on pan mixer... and I want one.


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## Makin' Honey (Sep 13, 2010)

Has anyone used one of these hand held mortar mixers?


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## rainesridgefarm (Sep 4, 2001)

I had a hand held mortar mixer. did not work the mix is too thick. I am back to the old cement mixer tuning and turning and turning.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

The hand held mixer does work great for stirring syrup in totes , though.

"turning and turning.."
Yep, me too. I start mixing with 2 of those at first light, and get around 900 lbs mixed before the bees show up and start dive bombing into the mixers. Slow, inefficient, but cheap!


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## Lauri (Feb 1, 2012)

I did a search on Pan Mixer too..I shouldn't have looked.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Nice, but expensive. So, one would want to have more info before plunking down that kind of cash.


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

I have a cement mixer how do I make the sub?


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

I spent 15 years at an adhesive factory that made mastics and sealants using stainless steel mixing equipment. If every a person wants to mix sub on an industrial scale I recommend a 500 KG capacity "Z blade mixer". The ones we used had the "Z blades" which mixed, and then a screw discharge at the bottom. Whilst mixing the screw ran one way, and whilst discharging the screw ran the other. The screw had to be running whilst mixing or the batch would be ruined. This is an example of a "Z blade" mixer. They are serious mixing machines.
http://www.bchltd.com/products/confectionery/other-equipment-2/z-blade-mixer/


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## Markt (Feb 8, 2012)

I bought one of these off of Amazon this spring and so far have been quite impressed. The three paddle scraper seems to keep all the junk off the sides of the drum.


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Mark:

How big of a batch can you make. How many batches per hour? Is that alone or 2 guys?

Jean-Marc


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

David:

I am wondering why you went with the largest machine? They seem like a big chunk of change. If you were to purchase again would you get the same model and why? If they made a larger machine would you get it? To make 10k of patties in one day that a one man crew? Is it really necessary to make that much in a day? I suppose you would only make as much as the bees can consume before it starts to spoil.

I need to get something for next season. Money is not really a rate limiting thing. Why spend $9000 if a $1000 machine can do the job as well. I looked at the IMER machines and the largest model with the 13hp gas engine can put out batches of 1600 pounds. That is the rate for mortar. Now I don't know if patties are tougher to mix than mortar. The next model down with an 11hp gas engine can mix 800 pound batches. Seems like a good amount to me assuming that the power needed to mix patties is equal to the power needed to mix mortar. It is $3000 cheaper. I am wondering how I could justify spending the extra cash? I probably will end up feeding about 30 ton of patties this year. 

I also see Mark T is happy with a much smaller machine. Maybe 2 small ones going would be good as well. Storage can be an issue with a towable machine that weighs the better part of a ton.

I guess it is time for Keith to chime in. What do you use to mix? Why have you not gotten a bigger machine or smaller for that matter? How much can your guy/guys put out in an 8 hour shift?

Jean-Marc


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## Markt (Feb 8, 2012)

jean-marc said:


> Mark:
> 
> How big of a batch can you make. How many batches per hour? Is that alone or 2 guys?
> 
> Jean-Marc


It seems to work well and not spill any over the sides with around a 150 lb batch. It mixes pretty fast, the real bottleneck seems to be getting the bags in front of the chute in a timely manner. That being said I've heard of guys mounting a similar one with the chute fully open over a cowen capping auger rigged up to a foot pedal and having one guy mixing batches and another filling bags. All depends how much a person needs I guess. We really only needed around 10,000 lbs this year and just used two guys alternating filling bags, never really got the process too streamlined.


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## davidsbees (Feb 22, 2010)

My old plaster mixer 12 hp would do 600 lb but was was maxed out and did not do a good job. The imer will do a 600 lb every 20 minutes with ease I got the larger mixer because I mix for other Beekeepers. I make the the sub to order so it does't set around. I've been feeding sub all summer and have increased this fall the bees are eating as fast as I put it on. I put on 1.5 lb so the SHB don't get to bad. Some of the bigger beeks in the US are using the Imer. The Imer has a bottom discharge so I can fill 50 lb boxes or 300 lb totes.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

jean-marc said:


> I guess it is time for Keith to chime in. How much can your guy/guys put out in an 8 hour shift?
> Jean-Marc


JM, we can mix 4,000lb an hour.


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

thanks David. Sounds like you have a big machine or several smaller units Keith. Kinda like extracting with several radials. Some are being filled some mixing some removing?

Jean-Marc


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

jean-marc said:


> Sounds like you have a big machine or several smaller units Keith. Kinda like extracting with several radials. Some are being filled some mixing some removing?
> 
> Jean-Marc


One machine.


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Sounds like a serious rig. I will have to get set up better. We just feed too much to not have good equipment to get the job done quickly. Good thing honey is $2.00 plus a pound.

You recommend any special machine Keith?

Jean-Marc


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

jean-marc said:


> You recommend any special machine Keith?
> 
> Jean-Marc


I think a ribbon mixer style works well, I think the most important is, SIZE the machine to your needs. Also, don't go with gas motor, use the kind that you can plug into the wall, quite.


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Thanks for the input Keith.

Jean-Marc


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## JSL (Sep 22, 2007)

Jean-Mark,

I looked at the style of machine David uses and they are nice units. Easy filling and emptying. My experience is with the ribbon style mixers. They give good mixing and dispersal and what is commonly used in the feed industry today. Pollen sub tends to work the machines a little harder than mortar, so I do not get as much product per batch as recommended on the mortar mixers. 

An auger shoot is great for filling bags. I have seen some feed into a "dough sheeter" or something similar just to control the output a little better. A reasonably sized machine or two with a good crew can fill a lot of bags in a day!

Oh, and I second that, electric is very nice! Especially if you are around the machine all day!


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

Keith, that is a serious investment. Can you share how many pounds of sub you produce a year?


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Mark T:

Just guessing but I think your machine can handle about 80-100 pound batches. How long does it take to mix all the ingredients once the switch is hit? 5 min? 10 min?

I also imagine it has to be fairly soupy to be able to discharge through the 5 inch bottom. Then it sets over night. I used to make them like that but have since changed the formulation and do not use any brewers yeast and very little soya. Now when we mix we achieve the desired consistency in the mixing drum and it does not change overnight.

what I am saying is that I would be afraid that the patties would not easily come out of the drum on account of the consistency. Lastly Does the water stay in when you first start mixing.

Jean-Marc


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## Markt (Feb 8, 2012)

jean-marc said:


> Mark T:
> 
> Just guessing but I think your machine can handle about 80-100 pound batches. How long does it take to mix all the ingredients once the switch is hit? 5 min? 10 min?
> ...
> ...


It's definitely a 150lb recipe we've been doing... We run it around 10 minutes I'd say but I would say it could be cut back to closer to five minutes if a person was rushing, more a matter of tearing bags open efficiently than anything. Haven't had any issues getting it through the 5 inch bottom as one of the three scrapers lines up with it and pushes it out every time it goes around.

The cutter knives are all adjustable so you can bring them in good and close to the drum and the batch from the night before seems to scrape off just fine (Though definitely dries out a bunch). The 5 inch chute has a rubber gasket on the bottom so it's pretty much water tight though we usually dump the dry stuff in first.


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Broke down and ordered a skookum Imer 750 with the 13 hp gas motor  Time to turn in our spades. Electricity would have been an issue. It might be slightly overkill but would hate to be under powered.

Jean-Marc


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Send us a pic when you have it set up Jean-Marc ! 

My drill may not take the abuse any longer!


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## davidsbees (Feb 22, 2010)

Jean-Marc you won't be disappointed I would recommend a 600 pound batch, you could do a 900 lb if you had to. A friend came by to see it work and decieded that his new electric/hydrolic mortar mixer is $14,000 boat anchor compared to the Imer.


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Ian, I will send pictures. That will require that I join 2014. Not really with it when it comes to this. Working on it.

David, I figured bigger is better. Nice to hear that a 900 pound batch is possible. We have a recipe that is about 300 pound batches. I figure the machine will pay for itself in labor savings over the next 2-3 years.

Jean-Marc


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

jean-marc said:


> . Electricity would have been an issue. It might be slightly overkill but would hate to be under powered.
> 
> Jean-Marc


Me still thinks electric would be best, the pluses are..... we do everything inside shop with controlled climate work area, clean "no flies, bees or bugs" to work around, Quite other than the music for the help, fast 2000lb batches, shut down or start up is just a switch. No gas to get, no oil to change, racket maker with fumes, give it a few years and see if it will start?
Just my thoughts.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

What happen to this thread, it's as quite as my mixer.


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

I'm still curious as to how much you produce a year. :scratch:


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

Here is another useful mixer for those interested in mixers. In the factory we called it a "Contimix", short for "continuous mixer". We used it to mix one component of a 2 part epoxy polysulfide that was used in window manufacturing. The product was heavy stuff it had a SG of 1.7.
The beauty of this mixer is that liquids and powders were fed in at one end of the machine, and after going through the mixer the final product was extruded from the other end continuously. There was no stopping the process to empty the machine it just kept coming as long as you were feeding.
I could see it being ideal for large scale industrial pollen patty manufacture.
http://www.wpib.de/fileadmin/downloads/broschueren/wpib/ZPM_Kneter-gb.pdf


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Adrian Quiney WI said:


> I'm still curious as to how much you produce a year. :scratch:


It's enough to say...... you know what mixes and what doesn't.


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

My machine is on hold for now. Might get electric one after all. I could set that one up in the garage of the crew house. I have an electrician coming over Thursday to see what can be done. Low noise would be necessary if we were to work there.

Jean-Marc


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