# Ok, im going from treatment free to oxalic acid vapor treatment and need opinions!!



## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

After seeing what them red frisbees can do to a strong healthy hive, im going to do my best to help them along with the fight against VM and have decided to go with OAV as my method of treating. I have been searching on youtube and on here as well as good ol' google to find different methods and cost efficiency. I have come up with possibly buying the JB 200 from up in Canada, actually from the Island I lived on for a while as a kid!!

Anyone with any experience with the tool please chime in!! Or if you have heard of something else that might be latest and greatest, let me know!!

I would like to build one, but dont have the mechanical expertise in this area, although some of you have made some great OA vaporizers!! 

I plan on carrying a marine battery for the power source and will eventually be treating somewhere in the neighborhood of 20+ hives next year. 

Thank you very much for any input you have!!


----------



## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

BG, MAQS have been working great for me, very easy to use.


----------



## RAK (May 2, 2010)

I used a JB this fall and worked great. Kills mites real good. Its built a bit cheapish but it works better than anything sold out there. Queens and brood don't die but mites fall. Three treatments and your good.


----------



## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

I went from treatment free to oxalic acid and have no complaints. Had my bees 20 feet from another beekeeper's bees while we pollinated melons this summer. His hives were almost over run with varroa. He spends a couple dollars per hive treating, I spend pennies for the same results. I had 8 vapor trays made at a machine shop for cheap. Two car batteries hooked in parallel on a dolly and a solar panel to recharge them, I run 4 vaporizers, makes for almost as fast treatment times as when I help another beekeeper treat hives with apiguard. If you can't build it buy it.


----------



## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

I've used both the JB 200 and the Varrox Vaporizers. Both of them will get the job done nicely. If you can save up a few extra bucks the Varrox is worth it. It's sturdier and better constructed. 

The marine battery should work fine for you. I use a small garden tractor battery and it gets me through 10-11 colonies and still has a good charge left.

Also, please invest in a good respirator.


----------



## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

I worked at a home made vaporizer this past summer. One design required some Stainless steel fittings. I never did come up with anything I liked. My next attempt will be something that slides into the entrance of the hive. In the end I would probably have saved money and gotten my bees treated better had I just bought a ready made vaporizer. But what fun is there in that.

I did finally manage to get my bees treated using Hooka Coals and small aluminum cups. I did not like the top down path for the vapors though. They want to rise up and I think I would have gotten far more dust on the bees if the vaporizer was at the bottom of the hive.


----------



## stajerc61 (Nov 17, 2009)

Did you check out the dribble method? No batteries to haul around an hook up, no tools required, no toxic fumes to inhale and more cost effective.


----------



## pascal (Oct 1, 2010)

I use the JB200 for 3 years now and it works great for me. I use an old battery from an F150 and I can treat 30 hives before power decrease (time of evaporation is longer). 
I carry a bucket of water to cold quickly the evaporator between 2 hives, and also to clean it, some time burr combs falls on it. Unpleasant if the bees are near the bottom board because they treats the evaporator like an intruder and a few of them always burns on it. I'm maybe a bit sensitive but I hate cooking my bees. I carry a smoker and smoke them generously before introducing the evaporator. 
The big default is the cheap construction and when you have a lot of hives to do, it sometimes unscrew by itself, you'd better carry some pliers with you. Works wery fine with screen bottom board because it's small enough to go in the tray and there's absolutely no contact with the bees.


----------



## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

stajerc61 said:


> Did you check out the dribble method? No batteries to haul around an hook up, no tools required, no toxic fumes to inhale and more cost effective.


:thumbsup:


----------



## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

Problem with the dribble method is that you can only do it once/year and need to wait until the hive is broodless. This means that your winter bees won't be as strong if you have high mite loads. I have used the OA vapor 4X a week apart with no noticeable bee reactions. That being said, I think my OA vapor did not work as well this August/September as it has in the past. No hives lost but several appeared on the verge of collapse when checked in November.


----------



## WWW (Feb 6, 2011)

BG, I have found OAV to be very reliable and effective for me these past few years, I started out with a homemade tube design for top of hive application which worked fine but is a slower form of application so this year I purchased the JB 200 Heilyser and have been very pleased with it for speed and ease of use.

My hives are near my house so I have access to electric, I altered a battery charger and use it as a 12 volt power source for the Heilyser, this is the system that I now use which works great.

For those interested in purchasing a replacement glow plug for the JB 200, it can be purchased at your local auto parts supply for $10.00. It is a Bosch part number 80010, but remember that it will need to be altered, the threads will need to be machined off to fit your unit.


----------



## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

Mike Gillmore said:


> Also, please invest in a good respirator.


Yes, I didn't mention that part, it is an absolute MUST. Also wear clothes that are on their last legs as the acid tends to chew up clothes quite quickly.

If I remember right I went with either an NGK or Bosch self regulating type of glow plug. No clue on the part number, they've lasted long enough to treat 40-50 hives twice. 

I didn't do the do the dribble method because by the time my colonies are broodless the daytime temps are rarely over 40 F and night time temps -8 F and I don't want to take chances with wet bees, plus you can't do the treatment very often.


----------



## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

I also would not use the dribble method seems to hard on the bees, and you cant dribble when it's cold. 
The dribble looks like a pain...to first get the OA to dissolve, then mix the right amout in sugar water then use the right amount per hive then per space between frames...



FlowerPlanter said:


> My Cheap and Simple Oxalic Vaporizor
> 
> Take a copper pipe 2' or less 1/2" 3/4 or 1" whatever you can get. Smash one end about an inch flat with a hammer, fold it, smash it again, and fold it again. Test to make sure it is air tight. That's it your done.
> 
> ...


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

No!! Don't do it!! Resist going over to the Dark Side!!

I hope it's not too late. Best wishes.


----------



## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

WRT the battery....Why not use something like this? 
It has its own charger and a convenient handle and has multiple uses.


----------



## westernbeekeeper (May 2, 2012)

For mites, I do food-grade mineral oil fogging. Anyone else do this?


----------



## WWW (Feb 6, 2011)

rwurster, I am puzzled as to how your clothes are getting chewed up by the OA :scratch: , I do not seem to have that problem.


----------



## Belewsboy (Jun 6, 2012)

I am a newbee and have no experience with other methods, but I used Formic Acid (not MAQs) and Honeybee Healthy on a fume board. It costs pennies per hive, the whole treatment takes 24 hrs, but the acid dissapates within 3 hours. Very easy, very cheap, very quick. There is a small risk of having your queen balled, but I had no problem with that and it really knocked the mites down. Outdoor temperature must be at least 60 degrees...the warmer, the better. You can read about it here:
http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/varroa/
There is also an interesting article about a Honeybee Health drench in such a high concentration, the bees won't take it as a syrup. Supposed to really boost up your bees. I drenched them twice this fall and will repeat early spring. We'll see how good that works this spring.


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Lburou said:


> WRT the battery....


How does one change the title of a Thread w/in the Thread and why is this allowed? Unlike.


----------



## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Thread title was not changed, post title was. All good now.


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Thanks. How does one do that? Maybe I should know in case I am tempted to do it myself.


----------



## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

WWW said:


> rwurster, I am puzzled as to how your clothes are getting chewed up by the OA :scratch: , I do not seem to have that problem.


If you use the OA as vapor you shouldn't get any on your clothes, and if its powder just brush it off.
I was wondering that too, maybe just in general that acid is hard on cloth.


----------



## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

OA fog will stick to you if you're sweating and I tend to walk right through the fog since I have on a respirator. It always chews up the front of my shirt and will start burning my chest after a few hours. I like to do it early in the morning but its usually in the mid 80s at 6 am climbing to 100+ F. I typically treat them after pollination season, in late August, right I have brought them back to the bee yard and after i have removed supers.


----------



## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

Belewsboy said:


> I am a newbee and have no experience with other methods, but I used Formic Acid (not MAQs) and Honeybee Healthy on a fume board. It costs pennies per hive, the whole treatment takes 24 hrs, but the acid dissapates within 3 hours. Very easy, very cheap, very quick. There is a small risk of having your queen balled, but I had no problem with that and it really knocked the mites down. Outdoor temperature must be at least 60 degrees...the warmer, the better. You can read about it here:
> http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/varroa/
> There is also an interesting article about a Honeybee Health drench in such a high concentration, the bees won't take it as a syrup. Supposed to really boost up your bees. I drenched them twice this fall and will repeat early spring. We'll see how good that works this spring.


OA might be cheaper. Out door temp does not matter much. Treatment take 3 min, hive is left sealed for 15min. nothing left in the hive. No problems with queens. OA is already found in honey a few PPM.


Here some info on many natural miticides and OA

http://scientificbeekeeping.com/the-learning-curve-part-3-the-natural-miticides/

http://scientificbeekeeping.com/oxalic-acid-questions-answers-and-more-questions-part-1-of-2-parts/

http://scientificbeekeeping.com/oxalic-acid-heat-vaporization-and-other-methods-part-2-of-2-parts/


----------



## Andrew Dewey (Aug 23, 2005)

Is there no one concerned that OA is not approved as a miticide in the US?


----------



## mmiller (Jun 17, 2010)

Andrew Dewey said:


> Is there no one concerned that OA is not approved as a miticide in the US?


Depends on its use. If your "bleaching your top bars" there is no issue.


----------



## Andrew Dewey (Aug 23, 2005)

mmiller said:


> Depends on its use. If your "bleaching your top bars" there is no issue.


Doesn't pass the straight face test, hence the probable reason for your smiley face.

There seems to be a lot of talk regarding the purity of honey these days. Bee Inspectors have far too much on their plates to be concerned about a bit of OA but I can imagine a time, in the not-to-distant future, where concentrations of OA in honey deviant from normal will be looked at.


----------



## mmiller (Jun 17, 2010)

Andrew Dewey said:


> Doesn't pass the straight face test, hence the probable reason for your smiley face.
> 
> There seems to be a lot of talk regarding the purity of honey these days. Bee Inspectors have far too much on their plates to be concerned about a bit of OA but I can imagine a time, in the not-to-distant future, where concentrations of OA in honey deviant from normal will be looked at.


So you saw me grinning did you?

The folks I know using OA are using the dribble method during winter (broodless) period. Since there are no honey supers in place, concentrations in honey would not be a problem. Now, the folks using the vapor with honey supers in place might make a good point. Interesting thought.

Mike


----------



## Michael B (Feb 6, 2010)

camero7 said:


> Problem with the dribble method is that you can only do it once/year and need to wait until the hive is broodless. This means that your winter bees won't be as strong if you have high mite loads. I have used the OA vapor 4X a week apart with no noticeable bee reactions. That being said, I think my OA vapor did not work as well this August/September as it has in the past. No hives lost but several appeared on the verge of collapse when checked in November.


Cam,

I vaporized my hives for the first time this November. I have dribbled in the past. In your experience, the vaporizing is safe with brood in the hive? What about during a flow or with supers on? When do you typically look the treat your hives?

Thanks


----------



## WWW (Feb 6, 2011)

I do not apply OAV with the supers on, I find it is best to begin treatment after the supers are pulled around the last week in August allowing the bees a few more brood cycles before winter sets in.

I do not know of anyone who treats with OAV when honey supers are still on the hive.


----------



## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

Andrew Dewey said:


> Is there no one concerned that OA is not approved as a miticide in the US?


I'm concerned that it's not approved. I'm concerned that our government refuses to approve a mite treatment which has been safely used world-wide for over a decade, simply because there is no way for anyone to exploit and market it as a "new technology". Wood Bleach being a common hardware store item ... well, you know what I mean.


----------



## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

Ditto that.


----------



## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

Andrew Dewey said:


> Is there no one concerned that OA is not approved as a miticide in the US?


I am not concerned about it because it is accepted in other countries that are not classified as third world countries, and of course based on what Mr.Gillmore stated. There are a lot of things that are not approved in this country due to the mighty dollar.

In all honesty, don't you think that there really is a cure for cancer and other major illnesses? I believe there is, and it's probably something simple and inexpensive from some plant in the middle of S. America, but the medical industry/insurance companies would lose a fortune. I mean, how many billions of dollars have been spent on cancer research and the best they can come up with is chemo and radiation?

If those that have used OAV have not experienced brood die off, then how unsafe can it be? If bees don't die from it then it seems safe to me as well. 

What I don't get is if we breath it, it knocks your socks off, or so I've heard anyhow, yet bees don't die from it? Can someone explain this to a simple person like me?


----------



## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

BeeGhost:

I'll keep it simple. Bees are bees and people are people. Oxalic vapours are very harsh on lungs and bees can handle oxalic acid vapours.

Jean-Marc


----------



## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

BeeGhost, Don't know that I can explain it. I do know I've gotten just a whiff of the stuff and almost feel bad for my bees when treating them. They don't come rushing out of the hive when I open it after though. 

As for the Cancer thing. There are actually several they do have a cure for. In relatively recent years many researchers and labs have started working together. This has been made possible by such things as the internet and cell phones, live video etc. Cancer treatment is considered to be on a fast track. We will see what it results in. I do have one little saying I always keep in the back of my mind. Not everything can be fixed.

I do agree with the AO thing though. Sometimes the U.S. can learn things from others.


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Maybe it doesn't need regulating as a miticide. Maybe you should be thankful. AFAIK there are no regulations against using OA. Why do you want them? Does everything have to be approved for use?


----------



## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

Michael B said:


> Cam,
> 
> I vaporized my hives for the first time this November. I have dribbled in the past. In your experience, the vaporizing is safe with brood in the hive? What about during a flow or with supers on? When do you typically look the treat your hives?
> 
> Thanks


I have never had brood loss with OA vapor. I pull my supers before treating. I start treating in late August for 4 weeks, once a week. I have treated during the fall flow with no problems. I am getting the hives ready for winter when I treat and all honey collected then is left for the winter. It's quick, cheap and easy.


----------



## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

You're right Mark, the last thing we need is more government regulations. It would be nice though if the EPA would add it to the exemption list, as they have with some essential oils. But for now I'm happy to let the sleeping dog lie.


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

And formic acid too?


----------



## jwbee (Aug 8, 2012)

I use it as well , it is cheap , easy and effective , especially in cold weather.
But I am ver carefull to get far away from the hive I am treating until the vapours are dissipated.

Potential Health Effects 
Eye: May cause severe eye irritation. May result in corneal injury. 
Skin: Causes skin irritation. Harmful if absorbed through the skin. Rare chemical burns may occur from oxalic acid and may cause hypocalcemia. Gangrene has occurred in the hands of people working with oxalic acid solutions without rubber gloves. The skin lesions are characterized by cracking of the skin and the development of slow-healing ulcers. The skin may be bluish in color, and the nails brittle and yellow. 
Ingestion: Oxalic acid is toxic because of its acidic and chelating properties. It is especially toxic when ingested. As little as 5 grams (71 mg/kg) may be fatal. Ulcerations of the mouth, vomiting of blood, and rapid appearance of shock, convulsions, twitching, tetany, and cardiovascular collapse may occur following ingestion of oxalic acid or its soluble salts. Oxalic acid can bind calcium to form calcium oxalate which is insoluble at physiological pH. Calcium oxalate thus formed might precipitate in the kidney tubules and the brain. Hypocalcemia secondary to calcium oxalate formation might disturb the function of the heart and nerves. 
Inhalation: Inhalation of oxalic acid produces irritation of the respiratory tract, ulceration of the mucous membranes, headaches, nervousness, cough, vomiting, emaciation, back pain (due to kidney injury), and weakness. 
Chronic: Inhalation of oxalic acid dust or mist over a long period of time might result in weight loss and respiratory tract inflammation. Rats administered oxalic acid at 2.5 and 5% in the diet for 70 days developed depressed thyroid function and weight loss. A study of railroad car cleaners in Norway who were heavily exposed to oxalic acid solutions and vapors revealed a 53% prevalence of urolithiasis (the formation of urinary stones), compared to a rate of 12% among unexposed workers from the same company.


----------



## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

camero7 said:


> Problem with the dribble method ....


and it is messy
and you have to open the hive
and you have to apply the dribble at just the right rate


----------



## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

jwbee said:


> I use it as well , it is cheap , easy and effective , especially in cold weather.
> But I am ver carefull to get far away from the hive I am treating until the vapours are dissipated.
> 
> Potential Health Effects
> ...


The same can be said for gasoline, bleach, furniture stripper, drain cleaner, and many other products that we are exposed to; some on a daily basis.
I am not saying that OA is completely safe, but all you need is proper safety precautions. Safety glasses, gloves, and a respirator. At least that is what I would recommend to strangers on the internet. 

I only treat 4 hives, so I do not wear a respirator. I have no problems standing 10 feet up-wind when treating the hives. Heck I could probably add a few more feet of wire and sit inside the air-conditioned cab of my truck while treating.


----------



## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

I treated over 50 hives 4X this Aug/Sept. Never wore a respirator, had no problems. Get a whiff once in a while but no coughing or breathing problems. IMO the issue is overblown. Been using it for 4 years now.


----------



## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

Some great discussion here on this method!! I am going to order the OAV tomorrow and look forward to adding it to my arsenal!!

I do plan on wearing all PPE, including getting a GOOD respirator with cartridges and all and good gloves. It may be safe, but I would rather not take the risk, doesnt cost me anything to wear the stuff after initial purchase!!

Thanks again to everyone discussing this topic!!......................Jason


----------



## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

I couldn't even see the vapors and I caught a whiff, it wasn't pleasant, I'll leave it at that.


----------



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

guys will use the vapourizor after they have the hives wrapped up for winter, little brood in the nest and the sealed hives makes for a good effective treatment. knock down method, use again in the spring to get a few more,
dribble works well too, and you dont have to carry around that battery and crack pipe 

the key is to treat without any brood present


----------



## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

Anyone considering the use of a respirator should be aware that there are several types and brands of respirators. They all come with different cartridge configurations that are not always interchangeable (mechanically speaking). However the biggest thing that you should know is that there are different types of cartridges for different kinds of chemicals that you are working with. For oxalic acid you want a cartridge that is NIOSH approved and is marked OV/AG/HE (Organic Vapors/Acid Gas/ High Efficiency). It should also be marked with the colors purple and yellow (usually stripes or bands). Believe it or not there are over a dozen standard color codes that have been developed. You want to make sure that you get the right one. Yellow = acid gasses and organic vapor, and purple = particulates.

The worst thing that you can do is enter a hazardous atmosphere thinking that you are protected, but the wrong cartridge. People have died that way.


----------



## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

Nabber good info there, thanks for sharing!


----------



## Fuzzy (Aug 4, 2005)

BeeGhost,

Please insure that your eyes are covered as well. The Oxalic vapor is looking for moisture. It will turn into acid
if it comes into contact with your eyeball. Not pleasant.


----------



## Fuzzy (Aug 4, 2005)

CharlieB, You indicated that you are using MAQS now. I kept those bee for 10 yrs with no treatments. You telling me that you have only had them for 3 months and you are killing them already ?

Fuzzy


----------



## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

Fuzzy said:


> BeeGhost,
> 
> Please insure that your eyes are covered as well. The Oxalic vapor is looking for moisture. It will turn into acid
> if it comes into contact with your eyeball. Not pleasant.


For sure Fuzzy, I always wear sunglasses and such! My hearing sucks so I've got to rely on my eyesight!


----------



## BWrangler (Aug 14, 2002)

Hi BeeGhost

Why not try dribbling it? For the cost of a small scale and a few dollars worth of oxalic acid you could safely treat 20 hives forever.

- no fire danger.
- no respirator need.
- accurate dosage is easy to determine and control.
- minimal equipment needed.

Dribbling is just a better bet when hives can be opened for treatment.

I've written a little more about oxalic:

http://bwrangler.litarium.com/oxalic-acid-dribbling/

http://bwrangler.litarium.com/oxalic-acid-vaporizer/

http://bwrangler.litarium.com/fire-in-the-hole/

From my personal experience, I'd only fume them only if they needed treatment and it was too cold to break open the hives for dribbling.


----------



## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

My issue with dribbling is that the winter bees have already been born at that point and if the hive has significant varroa then the virus issues arise and the damage to the winter bees has already happened. Vapor is easily done with brood in the hive - just do it for 3 or 4 weeks a week apart. I do agree with Dennis that there is some fire danger. I always worry about the wax catching fire but it's never happened. I have charred the bottom of some frames.


----------



## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

Fuzzy said:


> CharlieB, You indicated that you are using MAQS now. I kept those bee for 10 yrs with no treatments. You telling me that you have only had them for 3 months and you are killing them already ?
> 
> Fuzzy


Fuzzy,

One of your hives was full of mites when I received it and is now gone. Out of respect for your beliefs, I have not treated any of your hives including the one that died. The rest of those hives are doing fine. Still not a bad survival rate.


----------



## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

BWrangler,

Ive looked at both the dribble and the vapor treatment and both their pro's and con's. Ive talked to members on here through PM's and also searched a lot of past threads to see peoples experiences with both methods of the treatment.

The reason I have decided to go with the vapor method is becuase it can be performed more than once a year and is not as harmful to the bees, yet effective. I am going to purchase the JB200 so I dont have to deal with using a torch more than I have too!

I have looked at your videos, and that little leak from the "Walmart" bottle was scary just reading about it!! There is no way I could afford to light my property owners fields on fire or myself for that matter!!

Thank you for your advise and for the links you have provided!!

Jason


----------



## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

Camero7,

You have charred the bottom of frames before? Wow!! Just out of curiocity, whats the space between the bottom of the frames and the bottom board? Also, was it a home made vaporizor or something like the JB200? 

Another thing on my mind is this: With the power disconnected, can you dip the end of the vaporizer into some water to cool it faster and then wipe it down afterwords to get ready for the next hive?? It would seem that waiting for the tool to cool down would waste a lot of time? And what temp is it safe to add the oxalic acid crystals back into the vaporizer without having it touch off!!

Thanks for any answers!!


----------



## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

In those videos of commercial beekeepers I see them spraying the bees with something out of a garden sprayer. What chemical are they spraying?


----------



## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

oxalic acid most likely


----------



## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

BeeGhost said:


> Camero7,
> 
> You have charred the bottom of frames before? Wow!! Just out of curiocity, whats the space between the bottom of the frames and the bottom board? Also, was it a home made vaporizor or something like the JB200?
> 
> ...


I use the JB200, I use 4 in tandem. Most of my hives have 3/4" space between the bottom board and the frames.

I use 2 -4 at a time. I've found the smoothest is to only use 2. I run one and fill the other while the first is running. When it has quit smoking, I pull it, dip it into some water [I don't immerse the electrical components just about 3/4 of the bowl]. Pull it out and the residual heat evaporates the water, fill it while the other is running. Repeat. Works fine and is the most efficient method I've developed to date. I can do a 20 hive yard in about am hour and a half.


----------



## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

Thank you very much Cam!


----------



## WWW (Feb 6, 2011)

BG, The charring on the bottom bar of the frames occurs when the JB200 is not pushed far enough into the hive to overcome the weight of the handle and wiring, causing the heater and pan to be lifted up and come into contact with the frames. This can also cause the heater and pan to become tilted sideways and the liquified acid will spill out reducing the effectiveness of the treatment.

Sometimes ladder comb and other debris will prevent full insertion of the unit, so to overcome this problem keep a scraper handy to slide into the hive opening and clear a path for the vaporizer.


----------



## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

WWW,

Thanks for your insight! Good idea on the scraper for clearing the way below the frames! 

My two hive pallets I made have 3/4" spacers, so it should provide enough clearance for the tool to slide in as I believe it's only 3/8" inch tall. I'll remember to slide the vaporizer to the half way point when using it for sure!


----------



## WWW (Feb 6, 2011)

BG, I forgot to mention that things will go a lot smoother if you puff some smoke directly into the entrance, it helps to prevent frying bees in a hive that may be a little defensive.

The JB200 is 1/2" in height, and like you I have 3/4" entrances as well.


----------



## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

WWW said:


> Sometimes ladder comb and other debris will prevent full insertion of the unit, so to overcome this problem keep a scraper handy to slide into the hive opening and clear a path for the vaporizer.


I carry my hive tool and if the vaporizer won't slide in easily I use the tool as a fulcrum to raise the hive a little and it slides in easily. You'll need to use it again to pull it out.


----------



## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

Another question about the oxalic acid vapors!! How far will they travel in the air before becoming a non-issue to other people? Lets say I do a couple hives in town in a housing development or back yard.


----------



## WWW (Feb 6, 2011)

BG, I have only my personal experience to give you, and that is if you seal the hive entrance with a cloth before energizing the vaporizer you should have very little if any leakage, and if a little leakage does occur it seems to dissipate rather quickly. When the hive has been sealed for the required 10 minuets the OA vapor particles will be circulated in the hive by the bees fanning it and will settle in the hive where they will do the most good. 

There are people who use the vaporizers without sealing the hive entrance but a good amount of the OA vapor particles will be lost out the front of the hive creating a cloud of vapor which can be hazardous and also make the treatment less effective on Varroa. The JB200 Heilyser holds a maximum of 2 grams of OA which is the minimum amount required to treat a double deep hive , so to loose the vapor out the entrance is to loose effectiveness of treatment.

Not sealing the entrance is a faster way to treat the hives and this is why this method is used but the hive is not getting the full effect of the OA. To get a full effect of treatment on a non sealed entrance one could use two vaporizers per hive treatment, applying a total of 4 grams of OA per a double deep hive to make up for the loss of vapor out of the open entrance but one would then have the vapor cloud to contend with.

In a nutshell, seal the entrance during treatment and you should be good to go, I do not wear a mask and have no problems, but I do wear safety glasses when handling the OA crystals.


----------



## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

Thanks Bill and Merry Christmas to ya!


----------



## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

I can't find it now. But at one time I read a study on OA vaporizing and at what dosage it has worked basically. Although 2 grams is what is standard for a double deep hive. It is about 3 times what is necessary to treat the mites. I amount suggesting anyone reduce their dosage as it has been suggested due to things like leaking. how well the vapor migrates through the hive etc.

Anyway the overall impression is that the recommended dosage already has the fudge factor included in it and has basically been proven reliable. I just stick with the 1 gram per deep ratio and have found that it still works even when it has not necessarily worked well. I don't get bellowing clouds of vapor with my method. But as far as I can tell it still gives the mites a wallop. My method vaporizes the OA over about a three minute period rather than quickly like the hot plates do. I am looking for a better tool to heat the acid with..


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Daniel, Do you do a before and after mite count to actually know how effective the treatment was?


----------



## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

Mark I did a before in this case. I did not do an after as I was already running into cold weather and barely got the treatment in. No screen bottom board so I would have had to open the hive to inspect. I will say my count before showed my hive was way over the top. I did it by pulling drone brood. I found as many as two mites per pupa or something like 9 mites per 20 pupa. I have information that says 1 mite in 8 pupa requires treatment. So what was I about 4 times the limit.

I actually saw a change in the behavior of my bees after three treatments (three weeks) they still appear strong to this day. Yes I am holding my breath. Everything I see is encouraging but I have no good numbers on mite count after treatment. Just other signs that say it did work at least to a significant degree.


----------



## jwbee (Aug 8, 2012)

BeeGhost said:


> Another question about the oxalic acid vapors!! How far will they travel in the air before becoming a non-issue to other people? Lets say I do a couple hives in town in a housing development or back yard.



Dave Cushman in England says: “Some are concerned about Oxalic acid vaporisation producing a great deal of toxic vapour, but the point of the treatment is that the oxalic acid re-condenses within the hive very rapidly and coats everything in sight. Leakage will occur, but it will be a minor amount and the fine crystals will fall out of suspension fairly rapidly. If due notice is taken of sealing up the hive and prevailing wind direction, there should be very little exposure to the operative.

This is from an article I found , it tells just about everything you would want to know about OA.

Check it out at: http://scientificbeekeeping.com/oxalic-acid-heat-vaporization-and-other-methods-part-2-of-2-parts/


----------



## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

Has anyone here tried the varroajet or varroacleaner vaporizers found here.? I think they are from Serbia.


----------



## G B (Nov 6, 2009)

Tag


----------

