# It's a hand hole, isn't it?



## Birdman (May 8, 2009)

Mark it's early have another cup of coffee.


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## ccar2000 (Aug 9, 2009)

I wonder too. One of the inner covers I bought came with a rectangular opening, about the same size.


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## gone2seed (Sep 18, 2011)

I call it "that hole in the inner cover".


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Birdman said:


> Mark it's early have another cup of coffee.


Thanks Birdman. Don't drink coffee and it's an hour later here and this was brought up yesterday in another Thread and I wanted other points of view.

We could be talking about something that really matters I guess.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

The wheels on the bus go round and round ....

From earlier this year, the same subject:
http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...uot-aka-quot-the-hole-in-the-inner-cover-quot

There are some serious responses, including one from _Michael Palmer_.

And then there is this one:


Brad Bee said:


> I thought you folks were smarter than this.
> 
> It's called the B hole.
> 
> If it was on an ant hive it would be called the A hole.


 :lpf:


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

by some odd coincidence the oblong hole is exactly correct for a porter style bee escape.


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## Birdman (May 8, 2009)

Utility hole. bee escape, feed, hand, vent, smoke, entrance for ant and roaches, and launching pad for the bee's.


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## NewJoe (Jul 1, 2012)

you know.....I never thought about it.....and really don't know what the original ones had the hole in them for. I actually make all my own equipment and every inner cover I make has the hole in it.....and I really don't know why, because I do not feed through the hole, but I do place wet supers above the inner cover with the hole for cleaning.

And I do agree, it sure looks perfect to put your hand in, but I have never put my hand through the hole to lift it or place it back on the hive. I think it helps with ventilation, and I always blow a puff or smoke in it when going in the hives. But I really have no idea why I put the hole in the covers when I make them.


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## berkshire bee (Jan 28, 2007)

well, if you just quickly stick your fingers in there and squeeze tight to pull the cover off, you'll probably call it a sting hole.


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## VolunteerK9 (Aug 19, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> We could be talking about something that really matters I guess.


Personally, this suits me just fine. Ive read so many posts that mentions the word 'feral' that I could scream. 

Hand hold is my vote-makes the inner cover easier to carry.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

It's a tool. Use it as you see fit.


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## NewJoe (Jul 1, 2012)

VolunteerK9 said:


> Personally, this suits me just fine. Ive read so many posts that mentions the word 'feral' that I could scream.
> 
> Hand hold is my vote-makes the inner cover easier to carry.


I'll vote for hand hole also


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## westernbeekeeper (May 2, 2012)

In 4 years, I don't think I've ever use that for my fingers more then 10 times. It's the feed hole.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

We really should be able to get at least 150 posts to this thread........... this is important!!!!


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

I call it, " hole in the inner cover".

I don't have any, because, I don't use inner covers.

cchoganjr


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## burns375 (Jul 15, 2013)

I call it the inner cover hole or top vent or top entrance. 

My strong hives seal em up eventually since I have kelley plastic covers that allow bee space. Wooden top covers essentially seal to the inner cover, so not much of a point for a hole. I don't think the top hole is neccessary with SBB. Maybe except in a strong flow or on very hot days.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Originally, it was called an escape hole as that's where one would place the Porter Bee Escape when removing honey. That's the reason that they are...at least the original pattern is rounded on the ends. To accept the escape.

Since almost no one knows what a Porter Bee Escape is, or uses one of that style escape, no one remembers the real name.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

If there were openings in inner covers before 1891 what would have been their principal use?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

were there? were there inner covers before 1891?


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## jdmidwest (Jul 9, 2012)

It is a hand hole, you flip the hive over on its side and use the hand hole for a grip when you move the hive from place to place. If you assembled the hive correctly, there is another hand hole on the bottom for the other hand. Lay the hive on the side and see if it is there.

The cutouts on the sides of the boxes are only for when you are moving individual boxes.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

sqkcrk said:


> were there? were there inner covers before 1891?


Are you suggesting the Porters were the first to use an inner cover?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Some times a question is just a question. Stop reading into my question things that aren't there.

I'm saying I don't know when inner covers came into being and asking for information. Where would I look that sort of thing up?


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

There are many kinds of holes I don't put my hand into and a 'bee escape hole' is one of them. I don't wear gloves.


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## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

berkshire bee said:


> well, if you just quickly stick your fingers in there and squeeze tight to pull the cover off, you'll probably call it a sting hole.


I did that way back in the 1970's and it cured me first time I tried it. I refer t it as the 'hole in the inner cover' and have some rusty bee escapes laying around some where.


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## ccar2000 (Aug 9, 2009)

sqkcrk said:


> Some times a question is just a question. Stop reading into my question things that aren't there.
> 
> I'm saying I don't know when inner covers came into being and asking for information. Where would I look that sort of thing up?


Well sqcrk, I guess allan must be laughing at the responses you are getting here!  
We may never know the true answer to your inquiry.



allan said:


> I have 1 acre I can make in to a bee yard I was just wondering how many hives could fit :scratch:
> 
> 
> 
> thanks allan


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Could be. But if u would go back and look, you will notice my first response to his question was a search for more info from him. Though I participated, I was not the one to start it down the Off Topic path.

So, no one knows when inner covers came into fashion and whether they had holes in them from the beginning?


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## Rusty Hills Farm (Mar 24, 2010)

sqkcrk said:


> That oblong hole found in the middle of inner covers, it's called a hand hole, isn't it? That's what I was instructed to call it.
> 
> What do you call it? If anything. What do you use it for? I think that it is a pretty standard size so a bee escape will fit into it. Three or four fingers will fit into it too.
> 
> ...



Sorry but it's the escape hole.

JMO

Rusty


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

mathesonequip said:


> by some odd coincidence the oblong hole is exactly correct for a porter style bee escape.


But was the escape made to fit the hole or was the hole made to fit the escape? The shape would be a simple one to make with common tools. drill two holes of proper diameter and then cut a straight line from one hole to the next. It does not make nearly as much since to design an escape to such a shape. For this reason I suspect the hole was already present and the escape was designed to fit it.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

sqkcrk said:


> So, no one knows when inner covers came into fashion and whether they had holes in them from the beginning?


In "A Practical Treatise on the Hive and Honey-bee" (1857) Langstroth describes feeding through holes of a "honey-board" which is above the bees/frames and under the surrounding box:

"If the weather is cool when bees are fed, it will generally be necessary to resort to top feeding. For this, my hive is admirably adapted: a feeder may be put over one of the holes in the honey-board directly over the mass of the bees, into which the heat of the hive naturally arises, and where the bees can get at their food without any risk of being chilled."

Langstroth also mentioned setting up spare honey-boards with straw and reversing them for winter:

"The upper * surface of the spare honeyboard, may be fixed in the same way, and reversed in Winter, so as to present the straw side to the bees. When the bees are put into Winter quarters, most of the holes in this board, may, in hives thus thoroughly protected, be left open, and when it is covered loosely,with straw, all excess of dampness in the main hive, will pass off into the top cover, from which it cannot possibly return, to annoy the bees. As soon as the bees begin to fly out, in the Spring, these holes should be carefully closed. If the spare honey-board is not covered with matting, it may have, for Winter use, the space between the clamps filled with straw, battened down, and may then be reversed and set on the hive."


Here is a link to images:

http://books.google.com/books?id=hL...put=html_text&source=gbs_selected_pages&cad=4


So here's an early example of someone, Langstroth no less, feeding through holes of a board that is inside the hive...


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

SQKCRK - my father had numerous beekeeping books from the late 1800's. Next time I am at his house, I will look and see what they say. 

Crazy Roland


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## max2 (Dec 24, 2009)

. Our inner covers don't It must be for feedinghave holes and we don't feed. Feeding holes?


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

Has anyone else found a reference to "inner covers" and the possible functions/uses of any "holes" prior to 
the use of Porter Bee Escapes? 



BeeCurious said:


> In "A Practical Treatise on the Hive and Honey-bee" (1857) Langstroth describes feeding through holes of a "honey-board" which is above the bees/frames and under the surrounding box:
> 
> "If the weather is cool when bees are fed, it will generally be necessary to resort to top feeding. For this, my hive is admirably adapted: a feeder may be put over one of the holes in the honey-board directly over the mass of the bees, into which the heat of the hive naturally arises, and where the bees can get at their food without any risk of being chilled."
> 
> ...


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

BeeCurious said:


> Has anyone else found a reference to "inner covers" and the possible functions/uses of any "holes" prior to
> the use of Porter Bee Escapes?


Your question is puzzling, at least to me. The hole in the inner cover existed by 1857 by your quote. Your quote did not reference anything to do with Porter escapes. But Porter seems to have developed his bee escapes decades later.

One _Rufus Porter_ received a patent for a bee escape in 1893. The link is not to Porter's patent, but it does reference Porter's 1893 patent.
http://www.google.com/patents/US1089157

E.C. Porter (son of Rufus) is credited with actually manufacturing and marketing Porter bee escapes. E.C Porter was born in 1857, so it seems the hole in the inner cover existed before the bee escape was developed.
http://books.google.com/books?id=J6...page&q=porter bee escape patent rufus&f=false
The link above does mention Rufus Porter in developing the bee escape, but if it was left to the son to market them to others, surely it had to be somewhat later than 1857.


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## Dominic (Jul 12, 2013)

It would seem odd, to me, that the hole size and shape be standardized unless it was meant to be adapted to a very specific tool, such as the porter bee escape. If there wasn't anything of any specific size to insert in that hole, then there would not be much reason to standardize the size, and every supplier would drill whatever hole is easiest or most convenient for them to drill. There might have been a hole in the inner cover before this bee escape, this would not surprise me, but I'd be surprised if the size was already standardized and that the porter bee escape was made to accommodate it.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Dominic said:


> It would seem odd, to me, that the hole size and shape be standardized unless it was meant to be adapted to a very specific tool, such as the porter bee escape.


I agree. Call it what you want, but the oval hole in an inner cover was designed to accept the Porter bee escape.


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## AR Beekeeper (Sep 25, 2008)

The honey-board was an early name for an early form of queen excluder. They were not speaking of the inner cover.

The ABC & XYZ of Bee Culture, in the section describing hives, states the standard inner cover usually comes with a center hole in which to fit a bee escape.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

Michael Palmer said:


> I agree. Call it what you want, but the oval hole in an inner cover was designed to accept the Porter bee escape.


Which came first the hole or the trap. I say the method of making a hole in the center of a board came long before any beehive. And when it came to making one in a beehive part. they simply did it the way everyone else did it.

Here is a description on how to cut a through hole in an arcade game cabinet in order to install a card reader.

You need:

1 drill
1 jigsaw
1 wood rasp (file)
1 roll of masking tape (optional)
1 pen

If you are cutting on finished wood - say a painted or laminated cabinet, lay down the masking tape and draw the cutting line on it. The masking tape will help protect the edge of the cut AND keep the jigsaw feet from scratching up the surface of the wood.

Use the drill to put a pilot hole on the inside of the line you wish to cut. Give yourself about 1/2" of room between it and the line.

Insert the jigsaw into the hole, cut down to the line and then along the line. The jigsaw takes about a 1/2" to turn a corner so cut up to the corner, back the blade up about an inch or so then slowly cut while turning to cut along the next line.

Don't turn too fast or your'll break the blade.

When done with one direction you can flip the jigsaw around and cut back along the line the other way to cut the other side of the corner cut.

Use the file to smooth the edges. 

Now a rounded end hole would become popular if you have to make a lot of them. it eliminates the need for all that extra corner making. Which is a standard and common way to leave them if they do not require a square object be fit into them. Leaving the ends of a through hole round is a labor saving method. A pop bottle or milk bottle crate would have been an example of how to make a hole during that same time.








So seeing a rounded end hole woudl have been fairly common.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Chicken or egg argument? Oh boy. I sure can open a can of worms, can't I?


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## Dominic (Jul 12, 2013)

Daniel Y said:


> Which came first the hole or the trap. I say the method of making a hole in the center of a board came long before any beehive. And when it came to making one in a beehive part. they simply did it the way everyone else did it.
> 
> Here is a description on how to cut a through hole in an arcade game cabinet in order to install a card reader.
> 
> ...


Sure, but having every supplier drill the exact same size and shape, internationally? And wouldn't it be easier to just drill a round hole? If it's an escape, a peeping hole, or a feeder hole, circular would be just fine for all of these uses, and you could still stick a few fingers in there if you wanted (though I don't see why you would).


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

If you consider that at in the era under discussion, it is likely that hive equipment was often manufactured locally, and done so with hand tools in many cases. 

Drilling any hole involved a brace and bit,








and smaller bits are much easier to use, and likely more readily available.

Drill two small holes space a few inches apart, insert a saw similar to a coping saw, and cut out the wood between the holes.

That may have been simpler than trying to drill a single large hole.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Actually w/ wood as thin as wood used in inner cover construction I would imagine a bit and brace and a sharp knife would have been used, not a saw. That's how I woulda done it. Proper grain orientation would have been crucial.

In the mid19th Century sets of bits were quite common, coming in a variety of sizes. What you illustrate is very 1940s up to today, I believe.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

It is unlikely the inner cover was as thin as it is today. it certainly was not made of plywood. it didn't exist yet. It is more likely the inner cover was made of wood an inch thick or more. My home was built in the late 1940's. the entire ceiling is made of 2 inch thick tongue and groove lumber. today the same woudl be about a half inch thick and still not used as a ceiling.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

You may be right, but it isn't like the ability to make wooden boards as thin as 1/4 inch was not possible then. I have don't w/ a pit saw. A much older technology. Many of, if not most of, the inner covers I have had experience w/ are/were not plywood at all, but three thin boards inside a frame and ship lapped.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

Boards only 1/4 inch thick woudl very easily break. they may have been used in some items but not many. Shadow boxes for hanging on the wall but not being handled regularly comes to mind. cigar boxes which had an intended use like we use cardboard today and other uses. I don't see it being done for something that would see as much use as a beehive or even an inner cover. Not a thin as 1/4 inch anyway. maybe half inch. Btu since the Lang hive was first built from cast off apple crates. OR at least that is what I have heard. I suspect most of the wood including the inner cover was made of closer to 1 inch thick wood. Keep in mind the thickness of the inner cover is not the issue. the cost of material since then has influenced that materials get thinner and thinner. The development of plywood at all that then made strong enough 1/4 inch material possible was a result of this need to reduce the cost of materials. I really do not see anyone goign to all the effort to resaw a board to 1/4 inch thickness only to loose nearly all its' strength. I know the first inner cover I was given was made out of 3/4 inch thick boards. That was a around 35 years ago and it came from my great grandfather who at the time was nearly 100 years old. If I had to assume I would say that hive would at this time be 75 to 100 years old minimum. And sorry no I did not save it. wish I had. Still we are talking only as old as 1913 at most. Things where already becoming far more modernized at that time than it had been even 20 years previously. I did have the ability into my teen years to see first hand how things where done without the use of electricity or other power sources. And it was done much different. Methods where common then that have pretty much been forgotten today. 
I will say the hole in that inner cover was the same shape as they are today.

I will also add that the selection of wood that a hive was made out of was done far more carefully also. those hives did not rot easily. They where heavy dense wood and weather resistant. Almost a completely different item than I see today.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Daniel Y said:


> My home was built in the late 1940's. the entire ceiling is made of 2 inch thick tongue and groove lumber. today the same woudl be about a half inch thick and still not used as a ceiling.


Today, the _same_ (tongue and groove roof decking) is still 2 inch nominal lumber.
Like comparing an inner/outer cover setup verses a migratory cover. Two very different designs, yet both are covers.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

The mention of constructing hives from "apple crates" prompted a my recall of the one-time widespread practice of manufacturing "box shook" from wood. This was at a time before corrugated shipping boxes existed. 

Entire lumber mills sometimes were constructed to do little more than turn out material for fruit boxes, that product being "box shook". One such company was California's Fruit Growers Supply Co., which made fruit shipping boxes for its co-op member fruit farmers. 

http://www.foresthistory.org/publications/FHT/FHTSpringFall2006/FHT_2006_Citrus.pdf
As you can see from some of the vintage photos, box shook came in a variety of thicknesses, depending on where it was used in the box. You can see that some of the crate tops were quite thin.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Daniel Y said:


> I will also add that the selection of wood that a hive was made out of was done far more carefully also. those hives did not rot easily. They where heavy dense wood and weather resistant. Almost a completely different item than I see today.


Maybe all of your experience is from living in NV? Almost all of the bee boxes and wooden equipment I have handled has been pine or tulip poplar. A 1/4 or 3/8 in board set in a frame is plenty strong for an inner cover. It isn't like you or I have to stand on it.

Have you ever seen drawers from the 18th century? Loblolly pine board was quite commonly used for drawer bottoms in dovetail constructed drawers. Pertty darn thin too.

And like mentioned, apple crates are made from pretty thin wooden slats. I don't see why it's so hard to imagine and accept. I don't have to imagine it either, it's common.

Michael Palmer? What are your old inner covers like? I bet you have some that are 100 years old.


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## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

I was called this year to remove bees which had moved into old equipment stored in a barn. The inner covers were indeed 1/4" boards set in a frame. They had that same hole. My guess is that the equipment had been in the barn for decades, maybe since WWII.


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## marshmasterpat (Jun 26, 2013)

That 19th century loblolly and especially the long leaf pine (or old east coast white pine) and such was air dried (makes a huge difference in the strength of the wood) and was slower growing old growth wood. Much of the plantation pine cut these days (or at least in the southeastern US) is faster growing, less rings, and does not structural as strong. And yes those old saw mills could cut 1/2 and as thin as 3/8 thick. 

And I have help tear down buildings that were built prior to 1960 (prior to hurricane Audrey and Carla) and some of them had 1.5 inch tongue and groove.


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## alexstone (Nov 15, 2013)

I don't use inner covers as a result I haven`t "B holes"


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

SQKCRK - we make our innercovers out of 3/8th pine tongue and groove(of our own production), that looks like all of our OLD innercovers, possibly from the 40's and 50's?. 

Crazy Roland


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

Roland said:


> SQKCRK - we make our innercovers out of 3/8th pine tongue and groove(of our own production), that looks like all of our OLD innercovers, possibly from the 40's and 50's?.
> 
> Crazy Roland




The inner cover I was given could date back as far as 1875. I don't think the maker would have considered pine for firewood much less a material to make a hive from. It was most likely Oak or Black Walnut. I know it was hard like stone.


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## melliferal (Aug 30, 2010)

Hole (Oblong), Hive Inner Cover


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