# Semi-automatic honey sticks/straws filling machine



## Honey Stix Fix

Hello bee source community,

my name is Max and I am part of a Senior Design Project team in Mechanical Engineering at Purdue University, Indiana.
Our project goal is to design a semi-automated machine for filling honey straws.
From our first research we found out, that a lot of bee keepers are in need of a low budget, below $1000, straw filling machine. But it seems that there is no working small scale machine currently on the market to make this process easier.

If you are a honey producer or honey distributor and are interested or you know someone who could be interested, please help us to create a customer profile. We want our design to totally match with the expectations of the poeple, that would eventually use the machine.

Important points would be:

- wished production rate per hour/day/week
- batch size
- grade of automation, manual control
- power source: manually, electric....
- size/dimension limits
- price range: per machine, per produced honey stick.
- packaging material

If I forgot something or if you have any idea, please feel free to add!

Thank you all in advance! I am looking forward to a great project.


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## David LaFerney

Honey straws would be perfect for free samples, demonstrations and packaged sales, club events - but for me the machine would have to be more in the $500 price range, straw price would have to be less than 15 cents per, but a fairly low production rate manual machine would be fine as long as it worked well and was a durable investment. Something like this YouTube video of a manual progressive ammunition hand loader.


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## rwurster

Honey straws are perfect for free samples. My kid got a few at a bee shop where I bought his suit and if I remember right they were selling for 15 cents per straw. I would think 1 m X 1 m and between 1.5 m to 2 m high would be great, automated running on 110v if possible using whatever kind of plastic that is currently used (dunno if biodegradable is an option or practical for the straw). I'm not sure how many mL goes into a straw currently but it would be a consideration in batch size because of the use of 5 gallon buckets for honey storage. A 6 gallon reservoir would be nice so a 5 gallon bucket of honey could be loaded and then be able to run all of it out of the machine. Maybe 5 gallons is a bit ambitious but no one's saying a person would have to necessarily run a 5 gallon batch. If you could keep the straw under 10 cents per and make the machine proper for $500 I would also buy one... tomorrow 

Sounds like a good, worthwhile, project which could possibly net your team some money in real life. I wish you the best.


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## jrbbees

It would be great if it could do half-straws. Not the full length all the time. I'm just thinking it would be nice if it could do like full or/and half length. I think the 6 gal is over kill for a small producer. To me 6 gal would be industrual production. I think you would get a lot of straws from a gal. 2 gal would be fine for me. and if you could get it $500. I think you could have a winner that the hobby guy wanting to expand would go for.


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## dixiebooks

I would think the cost per each would need to be under 10 cents. Batch would likely be 400 or 500 as that is typically how many straws come in a box. I'd be interested in such a gizmo if it were in the $500 range. Good luck. -James Wagner


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## rainesridgefarm

I would love a machine like this. I looked at one in the $5,000 range so if you can get it down to $1000 that would be great.
wished production rate per hour/day/week

- batch size 500-1000 per day
- grade of automation, manual control The more automated the better. 
- power source: manually, electric.... electric for pump manual for sealing?
- size/dimension limits if this could be about the size of a theater popcorn machine.
- price range: per machine, per produced honey stick. $1000- $1500 this will drop the more you make. 
- packaging material has to be food grade.


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## beeware10

the biggest problem would be paying for the machine. while it was a fad a few years ago many stores have bad memorys getting rid of stock. maybe its been long enough that the cycle would work again?


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## beekeeper_sd

We sold honey straws at craft shows and couldn't keep enough made. I was using a manual filler and it didn't work at all. If you could make a machine that filled the straws and SEALED them (which is the hardest part of the process) automatically for around $500 I would buy it tommorrow! You can sell a truck load of straws but, at 25 cents each, it takes a lot of truckloads to pay for that $1000 machine.


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## beekeeper_sd

P.S. let me know when you get the machine made! :thumbsup:


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## HarryVanderpool

The Original Honey Sticks are still produced in Salem Oregon.

http://www.originalhoneystix.com/

Before you get all excited about purchacing a machine, do a cost analysis and determine how many lifetimes it will take to justify the investment.
Nature's Kick Honey Sticks have very attractive pricing for wholesale relationships.
They are also VERY GOOD people to deal with.
They were beekeepers first, Manufacturers second.


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## deknow

Harry, I was going to say the same thing. I think if you get them made.by the bucket they cost less than 7¢ each. If you can't buy the empty straws and make them for less.than that, a machine is a.losing proposition.

Deknow


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## rainesridgefarm

it has cost me $1500 plus shipping both ways to have a drum of honey processed into sticks. if we bring that operation in house it would pay for itself.


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## Honey Stix Fix

Hello all,

thank you so much for all your answes so far.

First hand experience is relly helpful to us.

@rainesridgefarm:
May I ask, how much you finally pay to Nature's Kich for each produced stick including shipping?

You wrote up to 1000 sticks per day. For the performance of the machine, a required production rate per hour is very important to us.


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## deknow

having a pail of honey processed into sticks costs about $250, and yeilds between 4-4500 sticks. A barrel would be more than 10 times that yeild.

$1500 for over 50,000 sticks for less than 4 cents a piece and no work on your part...how cheap would they have to be in order to justify spending cash on a machine, and wages for someone to keep it loaded....and what will it cost you in wasted sticks to keep it calibrated? will you get curved sticks (like some of the machines available purportedly do)? Will you have to justify to the health dept that all materials are food grade and cleanable?

I'm all for innovation, but sometimes when one machine exists, there is no need for more.

deknow


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## Barry

Competition is always good!


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## deknow

agreed....but even if the machine were free and I could get ready to fill straws for 1 cent and i could fill 1 straw every 30 seconds, it would take 25000 minutes to fill 50k straws it's still over 400 hours to fill them (10 work weeks). I'd spend the 3 more cents.

deknow


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## HarryVanderpool

Sending certain work out is a way beekeepers can get help without the hastle of hiring, workmans comp, etc.....
Buy an un needed machine and you can count on needing extra bodies in the shop to keep up.
Pay the pros to do it and spend the time saved keeping your bees alive and healthy!


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## Honey Stix Fix

deknow,

how high would the stick rate per hour need to be, that you would see the advantages in such a machine?

a 1000 per hour?


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## deknow

You are missing the primary question...how many honeystix do I need?

If I needed millions?...well, 1000/hour I could run through a barrel in 50 hours? So a long work week of my time or someone elses (that presumably I would be paying for a weeks work) to save $1500. Then I _still_ have to pay for the empty straws (at 1cent/each, $500), the machine itself, power for the machine, maintaining the machine, space to keep the machine, loss of product/time when the machine goes haywire, etc. ...to trade $1000 for a long weeks work?

Now, a cheap machine where a beekeeper could run small quantities of their own honey into a straw without heating/filtering (required by honeystix) and packed raw might have a market....but someone already has a giant machine to do this, and they charge a reasonable enough rate that I wouldn't bother to compete with it.

deknow


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## Barry

Perhaps mentioning the OP is needed.

"below $1000, straw filling machine"

If it already cost one $1,500 for 50,000 sticks, I see room for this idea to work. I'd rather keep my honey on site than send it out and be out of my control.

Keep moving forward Stix Fix.


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## deknow

As I said, I think there is plenty of room for a low volume inexpensive machine...a glorified sausage stuffer.

But to compete with any kind of volume, it is not $1,500 you are comparing to, it's $500 in straws (at 1 cent/each), and however long it takes to make 50000 straws. At 2/min?

You really would work 10 full weeks instead of paying $1000?

I'm not trying to discourage anyone, a really cheap ($200) hand crank machine would be useful.

deknow


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## beekeeper_sd

deknow said:


> having a pail of honey processed into sticks costs about $250, and yeilds between 4-4500 sticks. A barrel would be more than 10 times that yeild.
> 
> $1500 for over 50,000 sticks for less than 4 cents a piece and no work on your part...how cheap would they have to be in order to justify spending cash on a machine, and wages for someone to keep it loaded....and what will it cost you in wasted sticks to keep it calibrated? will you get curved sticks (like some of the machines available purportedly do)? Will you have to justify to the health dept that all materials are food grade and cleanable?
> 
> I'm all for innovation, but sometimes when one machine exists, there is no need for more.
> 
> deknow


I too have been told these same things but, can you guarantee that the honey that is returned in straws is my honey? Also, when we did straws, we did 6 different flavors. How is that going to work when you send your honey to someone else to process? I like to process my own so that I can guarantee the quality of that product to my customers.


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## rainesridgefarm

More and more farmers markets are insisting on all products be produced by you. I asked the wife how much it cost to ship a barrel since she pays the bills and she thought it was like $300. But I also have kids that would love to do this instead of work bees with dad! 

I would think if you could crank out 500 a hour would be a good number. I do not look at it like I would have to hire someone to make this or take time away from the bees. I would just look at as another bottling time line I have to meet. No one is saying you have to bottle a drum at one setting. Do them as needed to keep up for a month or two or three. When you have free time. I know people are busy but I can always find time buy not wasting it online or watching the tube.
just this morning while the honey tank is warming up to bottle I checked craigslist, facebook, email and now I am on beesource. Holy cow I could have just done 500 straws. Back to work!!!


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## Swobee

deknow said:


> ...a really cheap ($200) hand crank machine would be useful.
> 
> deknow


There is one out there, I have to search my memory banks and that is tough these days! It cost more than a couple hundred $$ as I recall. Some old timer bee keeper in Michigan or a nearby northern state made it. A fellow bee keeper in NE Ks has one of those hand crank machines. It is really nothing more than a small food-grade gear pump with a honey bottle above it - a quart as I recall. The outlet for the gear pump is a brass barbed fitting (1/8" + or -) that a straw is fitted onto. Simply insert a straw onto the barbed fitting, turn the crank a time or two, the straw fills and it's time to seal the ends. An impulse sealer is used to weld the ends shut. Somewhere I have a photo of his hand crank machine, but will need to search and try to post it. One problem I see is the possibility of carpel tunnel as it can only be so automated- there is a lot of motion repetition. Too long since I've seen it and since we talked about it. The pumps are a little costly, but his design is very simple. You can fill a straw in a few seconds from inserting, cranking and removing it, then several can be sealed at one time.


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## beekeeper_sd

The problem in honey straw making is not in filling the straws, it's getting them to seal. Believe me, an impulse sealer DOES NOT work!


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## Swobee

sd - I'd say that you're more likely experiencing a straw malfunction rather than a impulse problem. Althought it could also be the impulse sealer you are using, withut knowing for sure. We went through a time where one batch of straws just wouldn't seal worth a darn. Then eventually found the right straw. Too long ago to remember right now, but the straw plastic wall was too thick on the ones we couldn't seal while the other super jumbos sealed fine. We haven't done our own straws for a couple years now - Glorybee is where we've been ordering from instead. I have a box of the ones that didn't work somewhere in the basement, but don't know which ones were a better fit. We found some wrapped in the paper sleeves from a local restaurant that sealed very well, but unwrapping them is a pain. That said, you're right - it's pretty easy to fill straws, even the 'right' straws had a failure once in a while. I have no idea how they seal those that pop open easily. We tried different timing, variations on how many straws we sealed at one time - sometimes they were welded shut very thoroughly, other times there was a leak waiting to happen.


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## beekeeper_sd

We tried two different kinds of straws and two different sealers and still had leaky straws. I agree, I don't know how they can make straws that stay sealed but just pop open when you squeeze them. The straws that we could get to seal had to be cut open. That would be the main element I would look at in any kind of straw machine. 

There was a gal, don't remember where now, that sold an automatic machine and I tried to order one from her but could never get her to respond to my calls or emails so I didn't have a lot of faith in getting a machine from her or any kind of service you would have gotten on the machine. And, she wanted the money up front. Yeah, right!


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## Honey Stix Fix

I thank you all for your opinions and concerns. We will consider your comments and other sources to determine the machine's requirements. Everything will be a great help to our design process.

If one of you knows the "perfect" straw for the best seal, please let me know where to get it.

And please continue discussing about sense, nonsense and any problems.

I will keep you updated!


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## Swobee

http://s205.photobucket.com/albums/bb168/Midwest_photo/?action=view&current=StrawMachine.jpg 

Here is a link to my Photobucket album with one photo of the gear pump straw fill machine. I forgot long ago who made it, but it is very simple. I believe the fellow said he paid almost $1,000 for it! Too much, but I have searched for a small food-grade gear pump and they are pricey if you can even find one. The grooved block to the right is where a number of filled straws are placed, then ends are sealed with the impulse sealer on several straws at once. He added a small cup beneath the barbed fitting to catch any drips. The container above is a 3# container with honey inverted over the pump. That way, there is no priming needed. The barb fitting leaves a small space open and you have to learn when to stop filling so there is a space at each end to seal. If not, it gets sloppy fast. There are a number of things to consider with a straw filling operation. My wife has an uncle who owns the rights to the Gatling Guns. If his health was better, I bet he could machine something based from Dr. Gatling's ancient invention to do straws. Trivia for today: the Gatling gun idea came from an earlier invention Dr. Gatling is not remembered for - an automated grain planting drill that picked up and deposited one seed at a time for proper plant spacing.


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## Flewster

There all ready is an afordabale, durable and proven machine on the market out there. It can do about 400 straws an hour and is made by a beekeeper for a beekeeper. I have sold well over 200 machines with no complaints. Go to www.honeystickmachine.com for details of it.





deknow said:


> As I said, I think there is plenty of room for a low volume inexpensive machine...a glorified sausage stuffer.
> 
> But to compete with any kind of volume, it is not $1,500 you are comparing to, it's $500 in straws (at 1 cent/each), and however long it takes to make 50000 straws. At 2/min?
> 
> You really would work 10 full weeks instead of paying $1000?
> 
> I'm not trying to discourage anyone, a really cheap ($200) hand crank machine would be useful.
> 
> deknow


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## Magnolia Honey CO.

Honey Stix Fix said:


> Hello bee source community,
> 
> my name is Max and I am part of a Senior Design Project team in Mechanical Engineering at Purdue University, Indiana.
> Our project goal is to design a semi-automated machine for filling honey straws.
> From our first research we found out, that a lot of bee keepers are in need of a low budget, below $1000, straw filling machine. But it seems that there is no working small scale machine currently on the market to make this process easier.
> 
> If you are a honey producer or honey distributor and are interested or you know someone who could be interested, please help us to create a customer profile. We want our design to totally match with the expectations of the poeple, that would eventually use the machine.
> 
> Important points would be:
> 
> 
> wished production rate per hour/day/week
> batch size
> grade of automation, manual control
> power source: manually, electric....
> size/dimension limits
> price range: per machine, per produced honey stick.
> packaging material
> 
> If I forgot something or if you have any idea, please feel free to add!
> 
> Thank you all in advance! I am looking forward to a great project.


I dont know if this thread is still going but I would definitely be interested in a honey stick machine that is more automated than the one that I am now using soo if this project is still going please contact me and I will provide more details
Regards M.H.C


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## Magnolia Honey CO.

rainesridgefarm said:


> I would love a machine like this. I looked at one in the $5,000 range so if you can get it down to $1000 that would be great.
> wished production rate per hour/day/week
> 
> 
> batch size 500-1000 per day
> grade of automation, manual control The more automated the better.
> power source: manually, electric.... electric for pump manual for sealing?
> size/dimension limits if this could be about the size of a theater popcorn machine.
> price range: per machine, per produced honey stick. $1000- $1500 this will drop the more you make.
> packaging material has to be food grade.


could you send me a link for the machine that you had mentioned I was trying to find a machine that is more automated than the one I am using now and any info would be helpful


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