# Inspection after split



## afg (Oct 20, 2014)

This is a second year colony that was started from a package last spring but re-queened itself(marked queen in package but then had unmarked queen mid-summer). Very strong in the fall. I overwintered with 2 deeps and 1 medium on top. They were building up strong this spring with bees covering frames in both deeps and medium(still had quite a bit of honey). On May 10 I decided to split to prevent swarming and create a second hive. I saw what looked to me like queen cells?? Most looked open, maybe a few with larva(if these were queen cells).
I found the queen. She looked very different from last year. Much smaller, thinner. I don’t know if she is the same queen and was getting ready to fly with swarm, or maybe newly hatched queen??? Anyway, I moved her to a new 10 frame deep and medium box along with frames of eggs, open/capped brood, pollen, honey, and bees. I also put a few empty frames with new wax foundation in both hives. I left the original hive with same stores(eggs, brood, etc.) and I kept it to 2 deeps and 1 medium. I left what looked like those queen cells in the original hive but may have moved a couple that were on frames to the new hive.
Observing the entrance of the original hive shows lots of activity(foragers in and out). The hive that I moved the queen to also shows foragers in and out but it is not nearly as active as the original hive. I have seen drones flying for the last couple of weeks. 
So what should I do next? Did I move the original queen? A new queen? Was she mated? Does it matter? When do I inspect to see what’s going on and that I have laying queen in both hives?


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## PBF (Apr 1, 2014)

AFG,
If you moved the original queen you will have new eggs in the comb. If it has been 2 weeks and you moved a virgin queen she should be laying. If you hatched a queen from a cell it may be a little early to see much. I run quite a number of hives, I am less concerned about finding the queen now after years of doing this than i am at finding eggs and brood (eggs and brood usually = queen) . If i have brood and a good pattern great but i really want to see eggs and open brood in a good pattern. 
What to do? I would open the box take a look and see if there are eggs and open brood/closed brood. Your original hive will have produced a new queen, they will have more movement because they have more worker bees and more foragers. 
Hope this helps!
A


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## crocodilu911 (Apr 17, 2015)

afg said:


> This is a second year colony that was started from a package last spring but re-queened itself(marked queen in package but then had unmarked queen mid-summer). Very strong in the fall. I overwintered with 2 deeps and 1 medium on top. They were building up strong this spring with bees covering frames in both deeps and medium(still had quite a bit of honey). On May 10 I decided to split to prevent swarming and create a second hive. I saw what looked to me like queen cells?? Most looked open, maybe a few with larva(if these were queen cells).
> I found the queen. She looked very different from last year. Much smaller, thinner. I don’t know if she is the same queen and was getting ready to fly with swarm, or maybe newly hatched queen??? Anyway, I moved her to a new 10 frame deep and medium box along with frames of eggs, open/capped brood, pollen, honey, and bees. I also put a few empty frames with new wax foundation in both hives. I left the original hive with same stores(eggs, brood, etc.) and I kept it to 2 deeps and 1 medium. I left what looked like those queen cells in the original hive but may have moved a couple that were on frames to the new hive.
> Observing the entrance of the original hive shows lots of activity(foragers in and out). The hive that I moved the queen to also shows foragers in and out but it is not nearly as active as the original hive. I have seen drones flying for the last couple of weeks.
> So what should I do next? Did I move the original queen? A new queen? Was she mated? Does it matter? When do I inspect to see what’s going on and that I have laying queen in both hives?


well, if you are sure you moved the queen away, you can check them after 3 -4 days. if you find eggs then you know your queen is good. she might be small because it is a virgin, or because last year she did not mated right, so she is running out of sperm, they might be looking to replace her soon. the other hive, i would also check after 3 days, just to make sure they started on the queen cells. i would kill most of them, leaving 2-3 queen cells, different ages if possible. if the queen you saw was a virgin, you will have to go back and look in 1 week. if the new hive has queen cells, after you pop a few out, you should let it be for at least 3 weeks, if not 4. make sure there is food, in both hives. 
i know some beginer beekeepers, are excited, as it should be, and they want to play with them often, and show them off to friends and familly, but sometimes, it is better to let them be. 

now, if you made your split, and you sent the new hive besides or not far from the old, most, if not all your workforce went back to the mother hive. so make sure that one has plenty of room. 
my advice, and this is what i do in this situation, i leave the mother queen with a couple of frames of brood, and feed, in her original location. then i will mouve my new split, with the cells, and brood and feed , away. i do not need the work force in my new hive. the frames will be covered with gentle bees, that will tend to raise better queens. older bees, are like old men, grumpy ) they do not like change , and will ball your virgin queens. that way old mama, gets her workforce back (make sure she has room for the bees) that will keep her comb wark, and help her expand again, and new colony will have less bees, but hey, if they have reservs they do not need them, and before the queen hatches, mates and lays eggs, you will have at least 25 days, plus 21 days for them to hatch...you do want those young bees that live long, and all that emerging brood to keep the colony going. 

now, virgin queens are very special. if she had a chance to fly out already, usually after the 1st or 2nd day she hatched, and you mouve her box, or herself, you lost her. don;t even think about her, give them new queen cells. she is not that GPS savy, so she willget lost. i had that hapen to me this spring with a couple of hives, and i know better, but i had to move them 30yards away, because of rain watter was pooling in this spot i placed them. sure enough, i had to give them new frames of brood with eggs. 

you said you had a medium super...if you had brood and eggs in that one, i would use that too as a starter for a new hive. i started april 2013 with 2 hives, i medium super and 1 deep each. i have 20 now. i recently split them, using the same medium supers again as starter.i hope to eng my year with 30, and go up to 100 next year. my goal is to have 500 in 2-3 years from now, so i can send 1 semi to polination in california, and then bring them home and make splits and sell them. also make some honey of course  i belive i can make good quality splits, for less than what they are asking for one right now...i mean , $135 for 5 frames of bees? that is my mind it is too much. 

anyway, i got off topic. sorry. you will have drones in the hive regardless, they will make drones because they are programed to make them. do not worry about them, they are good.


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## afg (Oct 20, 2014)

Thanks for the insight and suggestions. I inspected both hives yesterday(5/25). The new hive next door where I moved the queen looks good. Queen is laying, good brood pattern, etc. I added a medium super.
On the original hive I lifted off the top box(medium) and saw a couple of fully formed queen cells(peanut shaped) hanging near bottom edge of frames. I believe these are the same ones that I had seen partially formed a couple weeks ago. So I just carefully put the box back on and closed everything up. I guess I'll check back again in 2-3 weeks and see if I have a laying queen. Sound good?


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## afg (Oct 20, 2014)

Here's an update: I inspected on 6/13, no sign of queen. Bees were mean. Inspected again on 6/20, did find eggs in a couple of frames, no capped brood yet (I didn't inspect every frame). One egg per cell in good pattern without many skipped cells. I assume I have a good queen, although I have read of the possibility of unmated queens, etc. Another quick inspection in a week or so should confirm if this colony is queen-right.


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