# Varroa mites...are my hives in less danger in CA?



## TheRatLover (May 13, 2012)

Hi....

I truly come from very little knowledge and am relying on anyone and everyone to help me. I was going to count my Varroa mites and avoid treating at all cost. However, the place I got my nucs from told me to always treat every year for Varroa mites just to be safe and not lose my bees. What should I believe? 
I have yet to see even ONE Varroa mite on my bees. I have the VSH (Varroa Sensitive Hygiene) bees. Strange....I just realized that they told me these bees are resistant to tracheal mites, yet the abbreviation has the word Varroa....hmmm

I am one for holistic medicine, organic foods and herb usage for disease/illness, but have never thought to look deeper regarding my bees treatment. Can they truly stay healthy and strong without any kind of treatment? Anyone want to share their rich knowledge and experience with me?

Thanks,

Lori


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## Solomon Parker (Dec 21, 2002)

If you got your bees from a vendor who says that, then you'll likely have more trouble with mites if you go cold turkey. However, you won't know unless you actually do it. Some people go cold turkey and lose everything, some buy resistant bees from the beginning and thrive. Without the constant pressure of disease, organisms rapidly lose general resistance to it.

In answer to your last question, yes, they can stay healthy and strong with no treatment (or help at all) with mites or other disease. However, I don't think at this point that anyone can say with any accuracy about the bees you currently have in your possession. I say it can be done because I have bees that do it, but I can make no guarantees for the bees you purchased.


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## TheRatLover (May 13, 2012)

Solomon Parker said:


> If you got your bees from a vendor who says that, then you'll likely have more trouble with mites if you go cold turkey. However, you won't know unless you actually do it. Some people go cold turkey and lose everything, some buy resistant bees from the beginning and thrive. Without the constant pressure of disease, organisms rapidly lose general resistance to it.
> 
> In answer to your last question, yes, they can stay healthy and strong with no treatment (or help at all) with mites or other disease. However, I don't think at this point that anyone can say with any accuracy about the bees you currently have in your possession. I say it can be done because I have bees that do it, but I can make no guarantees for the bees you purchased.



So you're saying I may have weaker bees because the person I bought them from likely weakened their systems by treating them. If I avoid treating them, they could kick the bucket. 

How about using a varroa sticky board and checking the count? Does this give good accuracy as to how well the bees may do through winter untreated?


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## CaBees (Nov 9, 2011)

As a newbee I was ready to do the sugar testing and possible chemical testing too but took some classes from people with different phylosophies. I had to ask myself do I really want to eat honey from hives treated with chemicals? Did I want my bees to survive from having strong genetics or was I going to manipulate them so the weaker bees would survive too?

My local beekeeping clubs (we have 2, probably more) offered some classes and symposiums with guest speakers who both treat and do not treat their hives. After attending I decided I would not treat at all and if a weak hive could not defend itself and died out so be it. I also learned I better have more then one hive, learn how to do splits and who knows, down the line may even raise queens from my strongest hives.

Some key elements I've learned (and I am new, still learning but hope to learn from other people's mistakes and successes).
1. buy local bee stock from keepers that share your climate and microclimate if possible. Ask them if they treat and if you don't want to try try to find non-treated stock. We have a split group here with 'survivor' stock so each year only the strong hives get split to others who agree not to treat.

2. Allow the bees to expand and contract naturally including times of dearth. This means (to me) give them at least 2 brood boxes and allow the cluster to move up and down, expand and contract as they would in a tree. No queen excluders...if she lays in the middle of a honey super then she needs to. Recognize the queen will actually go thru times of dearth 2x a year and during those 10 days or so of non-laying there is a break in the mite laying cycle.

Do more research, see what is out there; classes and hands on. Read and find out everything you can; be flexible. Realize you will lose some hives but the ones who survive are the ones to propogate..

There is a organic beekeeping list but I do not do more then lurk there once in a while...it is in my opinion extreme, preaching and propagates a 'black or white' thought process. It just plain turns me off.

And in case anyone connects this yes I am combining a weak swarm with another; I feel swarms are a different issue, they are new and just as a split is new may need some help (still won't use chemicals to treat; just may feed). It is also my first full year so am trying to 'hands on' as much as possible. For me, this is becoming very addicting!

Good luck to you!


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## Solomon Parker (Dec 21, 2002)

TheRatLover said:


> So you're saying I may have weaker bees because the person I bought them from likely weakened their systems by treating them. If I avoid treating them, they could kick the bucket.


The funny thing is, if you do treat them, statistics show you have only a couple percent chance better of them surviving than if you leave them alone. Check the thread on this forum about the survey. You may need to go back a few pages.



TheRatLover said:


> How about using a varroa sticky board and checking the count? Does this give good accuracy as to how well the bees may do through winter untreated?


I have never tested or treated, so I cannot offer any expertise in this area.


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## TheRatLover (May 13, 2012)

Okay...how come I do not see any mites at all on my bees? Should there be some now or are they seasonal like fleas?


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## Solomon Parker (Dec 21, 2002)

Mites on bees are mostly harmless. Mites in brood are the ones you need to worry about. Actually, don't worry. Worrying is pointless.

You usually won't see mites on bees unless you have a massive and heavy infestation. Some will say at that point it's too late. I have evidence to the contrary.


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

By the time people notice mites on the bees the numbers are very high. At the least you should check you're mite levels from the end of July till winter if you're concerned.
We use screened bottom boards, drone brood removal, & powdered sugar dusting when the mite counts get to high. It works, but you need to know if you have high mite numbers.
I didn't want that stuff in my hives either.


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