# When did CCD problem start



## eccookbees

Looking back at the start of the CCD problem. It seems like it started when we had serious problems with Mites & I started treating for is this true for anybody else?


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## enjambres

Wasn't keeping bees then, but have them now. CCD has almost completely vanished of late, according to the BeeInformed survey. But people are still treating for mites- at least most people who are able to keep their bees alive for the long term are. I live surrounded by corn some, or all, of which is treated with neonics. I'm not seeing issues here. There probably are some major downsides to neonics to the our entire natural environment, but I'm increasng doubtful that they are they the primary bad actor with bees. The science isn't reflecting that, at least what I'm reading. (BTW, I am no apologist for Big-Ag/Pharma and I don't use their products on my farm.) 

Enj.


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## eccookbees

Can you explain to me the difference between CCD and a dead hive that just disappears?Back in the 1940's they used to give the beekeeper reimbursement for the loss of beehives do to pesticide!


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## BadBeeKeeper

eccookbees said:


> Can you explain to me the difference between CCD and a dead hive that just disappears?


I've had hives die/disappear, I don't attribute it to "CCD". As far as I am concerned "CCD" is little more than a "name" assigned to an event in which a large number of hives suffered issues, the cause of which has yet to be explained. At least one other similar event has occurred, which cannot possibly be explained by the causes which agro-activists are attempting to link the most current event. Until such time as definitive answers are reached, I refuse to point at the nearest a finger at the latest "cause du jour" that occupies the minds of luddites who have no proof to their claims.

I too have cornfields in range of my bees, and there is no evidence that they are causing any harm. Some of my hives do well, others do not. If all of my hives failed repeatedly year after year, I would be looking for a common cause. The fact that some do well leads me to believe that there is not some big, bad enemy doing the damage, more likely the failures are my own fault, or other circumstances which I may or may not have been able to influence had I been aware of them. The fact is, that my own corn seemed to be of little interest to my bees, though it was grown from organic/non-GMO seed and treated only with organic fertilizers and pesticide (Bt, applied during hours when bees were not active).


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## Joel

There was definately a paradigm shift in beekeeping after varroa hit. I agree with bad beekeeper, calling it CCD doesn't help us solve a problem. Many factors against beekeepers today but it really goes back to keeping any population in an unnatural number in a given area. Nature controls over population through disease, starvation or parasites. Our bees travel more to more places and share a great deal more than they did a few decades before. Climate, pesticides, poor weather periods, stuff I should have gotten done and did't, recently studies are showing that maybe cell towers do impact bees do to interruptions in the magnetic fields birds and bees use to navigate. We diagnose every hive and are frequently seeing new issues in our or other hives we inspect. We have found beating Varroa contributes a great deal to overall success so I think you hit that nail on the head.


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## eccookbees

I had about 20 hives in my backyard my neighbor had about 10 hives in his backyard.He had an apple orchardso the spring of the year was fine.He took care of his stuff. Well problem is he's sprayed his orchard which didn't help my honeybees either.I took some pollen substitude which is white in color and put it outside my bee hives on the ground then I set back and watched the bees take the pollen substitute.Well the substitute turn the bees white and I could see where they were going.To my great surprise a lot of them we're going right back up to my neighbors bee yard because they were starving and robbing my hives! Now this is where my CCD started at one time!


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## umchuck

CCD = 2006 varroa mite = 1986


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## eccookbees

This was one of the problems that I seen when looking for mites in their bee hives.That was using powdered sugar to dislodge the mites from the Bees.The powdered sugar would go to the bottom bored &all over the hive body which would set up moles, mildew & infection. Which would then be track back in to the Bee hive by the Bees.This is what happened to me!


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## Haraga

Please tell us more!


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## eccookbees

This is another problem I have had in the past. I inspected my hive I seen that it was weak also seen that it has spiders in it. Came back one week later no Queen Bee but still had spiders. Well did the spiders take the Queen Bee out and eat it for lunch. Well no Queen Bee weak hive equals CCD!or should I say I just didn't manage my beehive right that time either!


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## eccookbees

Why is it when I go to look up an article online about a subject there has to be 15 miles of dirt road for the answer. I need a simple answer to a simple question that I can understand! I am NOT one of the scientist that understands all that data they give you!


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## eccookbees

Asiatic Mites had been found in South-east Asia and the USSR in the past.


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## Michael Bush

1868. See "Report of the Commissioner of Agriculture for the Year 1868" published by U.S. Government Printing Office, Washington, D.C. pp 272-281


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## Ian

eccookbees said:


> Why is it when I go to look up an article online about a subject there has to be 15 miles of dirt road for the answer. I need a simple answer to a simple question that I can understand! I am NOT one of the scientist that understands all that data they give you!


If it were simple there would be no problem.


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## eccookbees

There was the Honey Bee Act of 1922 if you have a day or two go to the USDA website and do search. You can find out more information about this.


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## eccookbees

When I started haveing problems with disease I used Terramycinit worked ok for certain things. But then I noticed that it would turn dark color. When exposed to direct sunlight this was causing a breakdown in the drug which made it useless also when it is exposed to air it has the same problem. So when using Terramycin I found out its ok but watch for problems with the use it .


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## eccookbees

this is good reading from the USDA about pollen and effects on honey bees.
http://www.reeis.usda.gov/web/crisp...lutions-to-problems-affecting-bee-health.html


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## eccookbees

What is therapeutic dosage. When you go to the doctor the first thing he does is take your weight! This is to know how much of a drug to give you to cure your illness! Now to administer a poison to a Honey Bee the dosage is small. To administer this dosage to a man his weight is a lot more so you need a lot higher dosage to acquire the same effect!


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## eccookbees

Now here is another thing to consider when looking at plants poisoning honey bees.This website just says a few plants that are known to have cause problems with honey bees.
http://www.extension.org/pages/4412...s-to-either-honey-bees-or-humans#.VP4KYJusHMJ


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## eccookbees

USDA research plan July 2007 By Kim Kaplan

http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/2007/070713.htm


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## eccookbees

If you will look back at after WW11 they started using chemicals in farming to control insects and weeds this created a big problem. Now if you look a few years back they to what they called no till farming! This is where they use only chemicals to control everything. And I have looked around here at all the farming being done for the last 20 years or more and it is all no till. A Good place to start looking!!


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## Vance G

Varroa Distructor is most of the answer to any beekeeping horror story currently being told. No til farming is great! Roundup which is one of the least toxic herbicides you can use, keeps the soil from being worked and denuded of cover so it doesn't blow away or wash away in rains. Moisture is conserved. Prairie birds have lots of nesting cover and are seldom around when the Roundup is sprayed earlier. If you are foolish enough to be worried about the carbon from tillage operations, no fuel is burned making several tillage operations because no tillage is required. So if you need to blame and worry, you might find a more logical target.


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## eccookbees

This a question that I have asked for several years now. Normally by this time of the year when I get gas in my pickup I have to wash the wind shield that I can see the road in front of me because it is covered with insects. My question is where are the insects going? I look around at other people in the gas station and I see no one else washing their wind shields either. Maybe someone out there can explain it to me.


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## sqkcrk

We add new mulch to our flower garden and under our shrubs every year. Where does it go? Why do we have to keep adding it? 

Apparently the CCD problem started before it was noticed in 2006. But, exactly when is hard to tell. It could have been in 1986 when Varroa arrived here.


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## clyderoad

eccookbees said:


> This a question that I have asked for several years now. Normally by this time of the year when I get gas in my pickup I have to wash the wind shield that I can see the road in front of me because it is covered with insects. My question is where are the insects going? I look around at other people in the gas station and I see no one else washing their wind shields either. Maybe someone out there can explain it to me.


plenty of bugs here. plenty in PA too as they had to close a bridge due to the May flies making visibility zero just a day or two ago.
There are lots of chemicals used here on the vineyards, sod farms, plant nurseries, corn, pumpkins, apples, peaches, tidal areas for mosquito control too.


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## eccookbees

I believe that roundup was started to be used in the late 1950s or early 1960s. When it was first used around here it was applied with rope wicks on the front of tractors. Any plant that came in contact with the rope wick would get roundup and die. I thought myself that this was great because I did not have to get out in the field with a corn knife and cut weeds out of the field when it was 110 and no breeze and every hungry insect chewing on your body and sweat in yours eyes. But now anything that is not roundup ready is going to die. As far as looking at the soil that has had so much chemicals put on it there no fishing worms, grubs or other composting good bacteria left in the ground. At one time without thinking I took a backpack sprayer of herbicide and sprayed weeds around my house that were flowering and not thinking what I was doing I killed alot of my own honeybees.


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## Andrew Dewey

I got all bent out of shape yesterday over an e-mail that laid the blame for CCD solely on neonics. It turns out that the e-mail was written by an intern and they got their facts very wrong. A correction was to have been sent today.

My sense is that the public likes solutions (or at least causes) that seem nice and simple; Unfortunately, that doesn't work so well with complex problems such as those described by CCD symptoms.

I have more concern over home owner use of pesticides than I do over ag uses. At least ag applicators have had some training and if they ignore the label for economic (overtime to apply at night) or convenience, they are clearly guilty of violating the law. Homeowners I think are paying more attention to the advertisements, packaging and merchandise displays than the product label. Hey if a product is sold at ____ it must be ok to use. And if a little is good, a whole lot must be better! Their misuse of legal products is big time problematic, something I wish I had a good answer for.

My sense is that many of the most recent cases that are called CCD are really cases where CCD is claimed out of convenience - it would require hard work to correctly identify what did the hive in, and the beekeepers (and the observing public) want a quick and easy answer.


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## D Coates

eccookbees said:


> I believe that roundup was started to be used in the late 1950s or early 1960s. When it was first used around here it was applied with rope wicks on the front of tractors. Any plant that came in contact with the rope wick would get roundup and die. I thought myself that this was great because I did not have to get out in the field with a corn knife and cut weeds out of the field when it was 110 and no breeze and every hungry insect chewing on your body and sweat in yours eyes. But now anything that is not roundup ready is going to die. As far as looking at the soil that has had so much chemicals put on it there no fishing worms, grubs or other composting good bacteria left in the ground. At one time without thinking I took a backpack sprayer of herbicide and sprayed weeds around my house that were flowering and not thinking what I was doing I killed alot of my own honeybees.


Where is this going? Are you indicating there are no fishing worms, grubs or beneficial bacteria left in the ground, and it's due to chemical use? Round Up kills honey bees and is responsible for CCD?


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## eccookbees

Where are your honeybees getting their fresh water from? I have a waterer set up by a hydrant outside that most of the bees go to, but when I walk around the area and look I see some around a mud puddle along side the road and also by a creek that runs behind my bee yard. In the morning I also see them getting the dew off of soybeans that are planted in a field around them. So if there is any harmful chemicals that have been applied around them they are also picking them up outside of the fresh water I provide for them. So this is a good place to look for something that you might not see. When I am talking about a problem I have had it is my personal problem I cannot say what is going on in you back yard!


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## D Coates

eccookbees said:


> Where are your honeybees getting their fresh water from? I have a waterer set up by a hydrant outside that most of the bees go to, but when I walk around the area and look I see some around a mud puddle along side the road and also by a creek that runs behind my bee yard. In the morning I also see them getting the dew off of soybeans that are planted in a field around them. So if there is any harmful chemicals that have been applied around them they are also picking them up outside of the fresh water I provide for them. So this is a good place to look for something that you might not see. When I am talking about a problem I have had it is my personal problem I cannot say what is going on in you back yard!


I don't care where my bees are getting their fresh water from. Both apiaries have access to creeks but undoubtedly they're getting it from wherever is easiest. Again, I don't care. One apiary is surrounded by soybeans and corn, the other just outside a small town without a lot of access to crops. Short of their beekeeper making mistakes neither apiary is having problems. Life is waaaaay to short to look for evidence of unsubstantiated beekeeping problems that are showing no symptoms. I find it's best to leave that sort useless hand wringing to others. There are plenty of problems that show symptoms and/or are clearly visible that I focus on and can do something about.


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## eccookbees

Maybe I have done something wrong I have had one colony of bees that have swarmed 8 times in the last four months.


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## D Coates

Wait, this thread started when you asked "when did CCD problem start." A hive swarming 8 times in the past 4 months has nothing to do with CCD or harmful chemicals. The bees are apparently doing REALLY well if they can afford to swarm 8 times in 4 months not being adversely affected by CCD, Round Up or Neonics. That's like saying the reason your rosebush is healthy and blooming REALLY well is as a result of chemicals that are harming it. 

Consider starting a new thread that asks for input on swarming 8 times in 4 months, but not on CCD/Neonics.


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## camero7

New study on neonics.

http://msucares.com/news/print/agnews/an15/20150617_1.html


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## eccookbees

Like I say when I say I'm doing good that is my mistake then something goes drastically wrong! The colony that was doing so well all of a sudden big problem. It has put all of its stores into raising brood. It had to go into survival mode just to stay alive. It had quit bringing in any polen or nectar for a week. It has started bringing polen in and started to produce brood so maybe it will survive the hardship. Had one colony that left and kept six alive so far. Been looking outside colony and around to see what has started to flower again.


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## eccookbees

When I first started to see something going wrong I had not seen nobody sparing the field around the area. I noticed that the trees and bushes around the yard had started to wilt I also noticed that there was bumblebees butterflies and dragonflies laying dead around the yard. This is a good indicator to me even if I did not see somebodys spring the field. Now I am still having problems with my colonies trying to build them up. I do not know what kind of a delayed affect this stuff has? But I guess time will tell if I can keep him or not? Sometimes you wonder if it is worth the effort or not!


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