# Making sugar syrup in bulk



## pahvantpiper (Apr 25, 2006)

Does anyone know how to make sugar syrup in large quantities? I want to buy sucrose (table sugar) in bulk, maybe 25 tons at a time, and mix it with water and heat it to completely dissolve the sugar. I would like to make at least 200 gallon batches. What sort of equipment would I need or who could I talk to? I tried to ask Mann Lake but they're not overly anxious to give out their secerets, which I totally understand. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

-Rob


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## Gary L (Jan 24, 2007)

A big deep oblong stock tank. At least two propane burners. An electric trolling motor.


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## kensfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Maybe an old SS milk tank.. they have an agitator? w/in the tank. I saw the 2000lb tote bags for $800.. doesn't seem like much of a bargain at .40/lb. Walmart's 25lb bag come out to .43/lb.


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## MapMan (May 24, 2007)

I agree with Ken - use an old bulk tank. Usually can be purchased for about $1/gal or less. They have an agitator which would be just fine for the mixing.

Instead of heating the tank, you could add heated water - doesn't take much to dissolve the sugar. Thinking out loud... if you have an old "ice bank" type bulk tank around, you could use the coils to heat instead of cool... Hey, I just looked at your profile - you are a dairy farmer, so you probably have all you need on-hand for it to work.

MM


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## Parke County Queen (May 22, 2006)

Would you be using it all at once? FYI - it does mold in the heat.


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## dcross (Jan 20, 2003)

kensfarm said:


> Walmart's 25lb bag come out to .43/lb.


Compare the price to their small bags, locally the big ones are higher per pound.


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## Troy (Feb 9, 2006)

I found the same thing too. Ironically the 10lb bags were a couple cents cheaper and easier to deal with too.

Go with whatever works.


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## fuzzybeekeeper (Nov 23, 2005)

*Cheap Sugar*

Watch the fliers in the newspaper.

Our local Texas chain store called HEB has sales on about twice a year. Their 4 lb. bags of sugar are $.99. Thats 25 cents/lb.

I walked in and told the stock boy that I wanted 100 bags. It took several minutes to convince him that I was serious. They rolled it out to my car on a pallet.

It takes a little more labor to open that many but if you are saving....what.....35% - 40% on your base cost (ok...so I'm not a math person!) it could be well worth it to hire a couple of high school kids to do that for you.

Just my two cents worth.....actually, about 20 cents/lb. worth!

Fuzzybeekeeper


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## Mabe (Mar 22, 2005)

Is there a reason that you aren't planning to use HFCS? Already mixed and available in bulk...cheaper in many cases because your labor is worth quite a bit!


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## Jeffzhear (Dec 2, 2006)

kensfarm said:


> Maybe an old SS milk tank.. they have an agitator? w/in the tank. I saw the 2000lb tote bags for $800.. doesn't seem like much of a bargain at .40/lb. Walmart's 25lb bag come out to .43/lb.


That's how I have been buying it....Walmart 25 lb bags. It's as good deal for me. Walmart has a super-store within 2 miles from me, so it's low cost to get it as well.


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## pahvantpiper (Apr 25, 2006)

Thanx for all the info. I like sucrose better than HFCS because from experience and study I believe it is healthier for the bees. I would buy a tanker of liquid sucrose but would not be able to use it before it goes bad. 

I use to live in Texas and loved HEB. Wish we had one here.

I think I will look into the bulk tank idea. I thought I would have to bring it to a boil from some things I've read but perhaps not - I'll have to study on that one a little more. Anyway thank you for all the input.

-Rob


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Rob wrote,

> I would buy a tanker of liquid sucrose but would not be able to use it before it goes bad. 

Rob, have you tried a propane tank.

http://s148.photobucket.com/albums/s35/CNHoney/?action=share&pic=100_1232.jpg

This is the system that I built and use.

So, we use air to pump,push, mix, ect... Then you can pull under vacum for long storage, kind of like canning fruit for the winter.

Thinking.... too bee or not to be.

Keith


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## MapMan (May 24, 2007)

pahvantpiper said:


> Thanx for all the info. I like sucrose better than HFCS because from experience and study I believe it is healthier for the bees. I would buy a tanker of liquid sucrose but would not be able to use it before it goes bad.
> 
> I use to live in Texas and loved HEB. Wish we had one here.
> 
> ...


The amount of heat needed really depends on the ratio of sugar to water which you want in solution. Using warm water and agitating the water so that the molecules of sugar come into increased contact with the water molecules helps decrease the time needed to dissolve the sugar into solution. Likewise, the amount of time for the sugar to dissolve into solution decreases when the temperature of water increases.

Also, you can increase the amount of sugar that will dissolve into the water with increased water temperatures - to a point. This co-efficient will finally evolve to a supersaturation point, where there would be a problem of small particles (seeds) triggering a crystallization of the sugar. 

Science - isn't it great?

MM


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

But if the bees take sugar syrup quickly, there wont be any crystalization in the bottle 

Keith: I tried your link but it did not work for me.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Chef,

Hope this works,


http://s148.photobucket.com/albums/s35/CNHoney/?action=view&current=100_1232.jpg


Chef, I'M pretty good at keeping, but ain't worth a ............. at this computer 

Keith


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Chef,

Hope this works,


http://s148.photobucket.com/albums/s35/CNHoney/?action=view&current=100_1232.jpg

http://s148.photobucket.com/albums/s35/CNHoney/?action=view&current=100_1230.jpg

Chef, I'M pretty good at keeping, but ain't worth a ............. at this computer 

Keith


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## Chef Isaac (Jul 26, 2004)

That is big


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Chef wrote,
That is big 

Chef, the standard tanker load is about 50,000 pounds or about 5,000 gals, right now it is about $.24 per pound vs $.35 by the 50 pound bag.
Take the 50,000 x .11= $5,500 savings per load , plus free delivery.

It may sound like alot but a few gals each and it's gone.


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## Sundance (Sep 9, 2004)

Like Keith says........ propane tanks are great. I am still shopping for one. I passed one up this summer at an auction, it went for $50, but it was too far from home and no way to haul. I like the idea of air doing the work.


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## JBJ (Jan 27, 2005)

*Keith, do you ever have issue with crystallization in the tank?*

Keith, do you ever have issue with crystallization in the tank? Also do you prefer liquid sucrose or HFCS?


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

mr jarrett sezs:
Chef, the standard tanker load is about 50,000 pounds or about 5,000 gals, right now it is about $.24 per pound vs $.35 by the 50 pound bag.
Take the 50,000 x .11= $5,500 savings per load , plus free delivery.

tecumseh suggest:
well it really sounds like someone is comparing solid (bag) to liquid (tanker) to me... if yes, then perhaps someone needs to shapen their pencil.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Tecumseh,
You are so very right, I should have said @ 11.75 pounds per gal gross weight. 

Good to see someone is not to broke to pay attention.
Keith


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

*mixing syrup*

Pahvantpiper:

I used to mix my own the following way.
get a tank and a 2 inch gas water pump, preferably one with a 5 hp motor
on the outflow of the pump place a T connector. One arm of the T will return to the tank to recirculate the water, the other side goes to the feed line. You need a nozzle at that end to feed the hives.

I would add the water to the tank then turn on the pump, start adding the sugar, and by the time all the sugar was added the syrup is more or less mixed. This works better with hot water. You'll probably have lots at the dairy farm. You can get a 50/ 50 syrup with cold water, and a higher concentration with hot water.

use quick release camlocks at all the fittings and shut off valves. That way you can prevent recirculation to the tank when it is near empty and you want to pump it empty.

You probably want to use a tank and hoses that do not allow sunlight in. Sunlight can quickly degrade fumigillin (20 minutes in direct sunlight).

This system can also be used with factory bought syrup.

Jean-Marc


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## pahvantpiper (Apr 25, 2006)

"So, we use air to pump,push, mix, ect... Then you can pull under vacum for long storage, kind of like canning fruit for the winter."

Does liquid sucrose last longer under vaccum?
Do you ever mix it yourself or just buy a tanker?

Jean-marc, sounds like a good way to go, thanx for the input.

-Rob Bliss


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## JBJ (Jan 27, 2005)

*Source for propane tanks?*

Keith, any suggestions for a good source for tanks?


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

keith sezs:
Good to see someone is not to broke to pay attention.
Keith

tecumsh replies:
just lookin' over you sholder and checkin' your math keith. must be the school teacher in me? 

for certain given my numbers bulk syrup is not really a viable option at this time but the vacume idea is quite excellent. thanks for that one keith.


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## dickm (May 19, 2002)

I know someone that uses a pump to mix syrup. I can't remeber if it was an air pump or not but either type (air/liquid) would work.

dickm


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## jessy (Mar 15, 2010)

Hi 
I have seen these SS tanks (http://www.hfcstanks.com - a turn key HFCS tank or honey tank) and they seem to work better than light duty milk tanks, since honey & HFCS has specific gravity of. 1.4, so milk tanks do not hold the weight so well and break or fracture at legs or stress points especially when you get into large size tanks. 

I hear these tanks noted above are in use at a few big beekeeper locations and some honey packers have also. From what I saw they have a ¾ inch heat loop under the tanks and direct contact with 316L tank on bottom and with a European insulation. They seem to be great for honey and bee feeding with HFCS since they keep product more stable for safer feeding when you store outside - plus they stack. A small electric or gas water heater will maintain heat with a circulating pump during cold months. 

Jess


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## dickm (May 19, 2002)

A big keeper I know told me that he and some others have a line into the sugar company so that when a large amount becomes available (and must be moved) He and his friends jump on it. It seems sugar has a date on it.

dickm


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## honeydreams (Aug 10, 2009)

how to make bulk syrup? Lots of sugar lots of water:lpf:

look for a navy double boiler gally pot they hold 100 gallons at a time and you can run hot water in between the double jacketed pot. they use them in the gallies to cook for hundreds of sailors on ships. if you can find a few used might help you out.


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## Blackwater Bee (May 1, 2008)

Contact Indiana Sugars, they may help you with your Liquid Sucrose needs, they have totes. They'll show up in any search engine


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## jessy (Mar 15, 2010)

Jess here, 
thanks for your info on sugar.... from your posts, what is a good price these days with sugar going nuts. A price on the feeding options like sugar, sucrose or the HFCS and their current prices per lb or tanker with 44,000 lbs 

Tuesday April 13, 2010 09:51 PM Re: Making sugar syrup in bulk
Hi
I have seen these SS tanks (http://www.hfcstanks.com - a turn key HFCS tank or honey tank) and they seem to work better than light duty milk tanks, since honey & HFCS has specific gravity of. 1.4, so milk tanks do not hold the weight so well and break or fracture at legs or stress points especially when you get into large size tanks.

I hear these tanks noted above are in use at a few big beekeeper locations and some honey packers have also. From what I saw they have a ¾ inch heat loop under the tanks and direct contact with 316L tank on bottom and with a European insulation. They seem to be great for honey and bee feeding with HFCS since they keep product more stable for safer feeding when you store outside - plus they stack. A small electric or gas water heater will maintain heat with a circulating pump during cold months.

Jess


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