# Shortage of bees in Almonds 2011?



## simplyhoney (Sep 14, 2004)

Long again. Means those brilliant guys that ship with out contract will start under cutting contracts. Which means the farmers will have chips for poker next year. The road goes on forever & the party never ends!


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

Over 5000 colonies advertising in the Fresno newspaper.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

I counted over 800 colonies that are still on their locations in Ventura county on 2/10/11 as I drove around the area servicing a my own hives.
About 300 other hives were moved out on 2/8-10/11.
Ernie


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## Matt Beekman (Dec 15, 2007)

My sense of 2011 almond pollination is it is about in balance. The overages I am hearing about are insignificant compared to the overall size of the entire market. Any overages will get used after inspections.


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## Nick Noyes (Apr 28, 2005)

I agree with Matt.
Most of the extras I know of are beekeepers who wintered better than they thought they would. So have extras to rent. Some growers putting less hives per acre. Have not heard of any price cutting yet.
Looks like the American beekeepers can supply the bees for the almonds.


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## simplyhoney (Sep 14, 2004)

*American Bee keepers*

YEA! RIGHT ON NICK! Have you seen the "it's not our fault" letter in the latest ABJ from Brown regarding Aussie imports? Basically he is crying about the ban and how the USDA is hurting all those poor beekeepers and almond farmers. When Austrailia (who maintains some of the tightest Ag import laws in the world) let us ship bees during our fall season to pollenate their precious fruit in North Queensland during their spring, then and only then do we let Aussie bees back in. But actually we should have a world ban on import export of bees. It has only led to disater. ( ie. Foul brood, mites, AFRICANIZATION to name a few)


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

*Re: American Bee keepers*



simplyhoney said:


> But actually we should have a world ban on import export of bees. It has only led to disater. ( ie. Foul brood, mites, AFRICANIZATION to name a few)


Actually we did have a world ban on bee imports and it didn't stop tracheal mites, varroa mites, AHB or SHB. Having said that, I do agree that we don't need to be importing boatloads of bees to pollinate almonds...at least not without rigorous quarantines such as those that Australia has in place.


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## simplyhoney (Sep 14, 2004)

*Re: ban*

Right, that is true


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## Ted Kretschmann (Feb 2, 2011)

While I agree with everyone. I bought Aussie queens, about 900 of them. I bought them to deepen out an ever shallowing genetic base. My bees are doing better for it. Nor did my bees come down with any strange viruses based on the USDA survey that I was part of. So that is something to think about--how do we keep out disease and pest in the USA and maintain a very diverse gene pool with out some stock importations from somewhere. I do not mean drone semen importations either. I mean real stock in the form of queens. TK:scratch:


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

Although I started this thread about bees in Almond pollination I will gladly join in regarding the Australian packages and queens. We have purchased them in the past. We once put good money down for "almond time" Aussie queens through Weavers. For more than one year big beekeepers near me (20 mile radius) purchased nearly 5000 to throw in the Almonds. Every year they would crud out. Finally on guy near me decided to re-queen them all when his own became available. His loss rate on them went from 90% to 10%. 

Aussie bees were great going into the Almonds but beyond that I would not consider them to have delivered any beneficial attributes that would help our situation genetic wise. They were saps beyond compare. The loose ones I bought ended up getting the funkiest looking combination of chalkbrood / foulbrood disease I've ever seen. Haven't seen anything like it since. Thank God. I think 5% made it till the next spring. Really bad. 

Beyond the fact that they saved many a beekeepers rear at Almond time I would hardly doubt you would get anyone near me to give them a thumbs up for anything else. 

They might be swell for problem free Australia but they were junk once they hit our shores. I am talking the genetics solely. Both the Weavers and their suppliers did a grand job getting the bees here in great shape.


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## Ted Kretschmann (Feb 2, 2011)

I am sorry to hear that, the ones I got did O.K....But then they did not get stressed out in pollination. But still how do we broaden an ever shrinking genetic base without importation of some new genetics, while preventing the importation of disease??? This question is important if we want to maintain a vibrant bee population that is capable of commercial pollination on the scale that is needed in Almonds, Cranberries and blueberries. I have sent many truck loads of bees for pollination in Cali and Wisconsin in years past, so it is not like I am clueless. TK


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Ted Kretschmann said:


> how do we broaden an ever shrinking genetic base without importation of some new genetics, while preventing the importation of disease???





beemandan said:


> rigorous quarantines such as those that Australia has in place.


When we began importing bees from eastern Russia, they were quarantined for an extended time on an isolated island off the coast of Louisiana. A reasonable quarantine/evaluation program can be implemented. But…it would never work for the numbers of packages and queens that were coming in to support almond pollination.


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

Bump. Was wondering if anyone had anymore status updates on bees supply/ under supply. Price increases or cutting to get their foot in the door? Lovely rain outside again today. Bees flying from one frame to the other as practice for when the sun shows back up. Not much else happening. Will help the summer situation in the long run.


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## Ted Kretschmann (Feb 2, 2011)

Rick Sutton of FL And KY told me that he was getting 150.00 before the expenses were taken out. He asked me why I did not go this year. That where he was above Fresno they could have easily placed my load or two as they were needing more bees. He brokered out through Lyle Johnson's cousin.No, the price of honey is not bad and as a Souix member, I just decided to stay home. TK


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## JBJ (Jan 27, 2005)

So it seems we may have been a little long on bees this year? I definitely received more calls from beeks looking for placement than calls from folks needing bees; probably 2:1. Anybody have other observations? Long on bees without the aussies, whoda thunk it?

Was anybody out there unable to rent their good bees?


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

A bit long ,I think.No need for Aussie bees at all.


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## LSPender (Nov 16, 2004)

I am delivering more hive tonight (120) & tommorro (100) to back fill for poor bees.

Lots of orchard still do not have hives.

And all extra bees I know of are spoken for.


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## Laurence Hope (Aug 24, 2005)

The bloom around me has begun (You're right on, Tom) and although there are still bees advertised in the Fresno Bee, I see several orchards without bees in or near them. So, for this area, who knows?


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

Looks like the supply of bees is nearly gone. If your not in in the north your now late. With the latter bloom in the mid section and south people are still looking for fill in bees. I talked with a guy this evening who wanted to buy bees at 250. If that's the case looks like some might get 180 to 200 on straight run bees the next couple odd days. For those concerned about starvation we did get a very small shake on Monday followed by a medium shake yesterday in the southern end of the north. I did not check today.


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## HVH (Feb 20, 2008)

Do you mean you are shaking for packages?
My Modesto hives are building up fast. I did have 4 dead outs out of 132 but overall the bees are getting stronger. We are probably at about 50% bloom.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

I'm sure he is referring to a honey flow. Glad to hear your bees are looking good HVH.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

"Straight run bees" I love that term, assume it is the same as "field run" which my understanding is the same as .....well I guess we all have our own adjectives for them. Sure hope most of my my "field runs" down in Texas turn around by the time we are ready to start splitting.


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

HVH

Jim is correct in explaining my definition of "a shake" as opposed to the term "to shake" as in shaking bees for packages. 

It is a term used to define as to whether or not the nectar flow is on. If the nectar flow is on and the bees are cramming nectar in the cells either before the house bees process it and / or beyond what the house bees can handle on the day the nectar flow you can easily get "liguid" to fly out of the cells if the condition exists . If you take a frame and hold it in the air and either tap it on an ear on a solid surface or rapidly shake the frame in a downward motion followed with an abrupt halt you will may see nectar flying out. We usually refer to "shakes: as either small, medium or large.


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## HVH (Feb 20, 2008)

Thanks for the explanation.


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

So "straight run bees" or "field run bees" are colonies that would have been brought from the mid west into almonds without having spend a bunch of time, syrup, patties trying to get them into tip top shape before the almond bloom? I've heard the term a few times, I'm not 100% sure of it's meaning though.

Jean-Marc


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

jean-marc said:


> "field run bees" I've heard the term a few times, I'm not 100% sure of it's meaning though.Jean-Marc


"field run bees"...... put them in the field and run.


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## Trevor Mansell (Jan 16, 2005)

I just received a phone call from a broker looking for more bees , she said "There are no bees to be found anywhere and most of the bees out there aren't making the grade". How is the cold weather affecting the bloom ? What are you all seeing out there , particularly in the fresno area?


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## Ted Kretschmann (Feb 2, 2011)

It is a little late for a broker to be looking for more bees to cover their butts with. People in the southeast of the nation are gearing up for nucs, packages or honey production.There are good brokers and some very dishonest types. Sadly, I seem to have found the dishonest ones when I had bees in the Fresno area. Names I will not mention in public.TK


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

Pretty good frost this morning but not as low as it could have been. Those running water will probably be OK. I see a lot of variation in activity around hives, nothing new there. One orchard where I placed my own colonies I have double deeps pushing the lids off, while the neighbor has a bunch of singles with little or no flight. Always a shortage of quality bees. The bees may be able to gather some nectar this coming week if the bloom is not damaged. Good pollen flow this past week, honey is rapidly being converted into brood.


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

We ran the water all last night in our almonds. The frost was not as bad as the night before nor as bad as forecast. Walking the field yesterday I did see burned tips of about a sixteenth of an inch on some of the emerging leaves. The bees are flying at 50% right now. The quantity of pollen is not as it should be. I think a lot of it got shot with the rain and freeze. The early trees in the fields are about finished. Is a very strange this year in that the blooms on the trees vary to great degree in stages. Some of our Winters as do others happen to have petals on the ground while simultaneously show buds that are still coming out of the jackets. Even up to week from opening on some. 

Hope you all had heavy bees going in. So far this is not one of those years where the bees are busting out of the boxes even if they went in with large stores and high frame count.

With grafting less than a week away this is certainly going to be interesting.

Early queens throughout the US are going to be held at a premium. Don't look for any fire sales on April queens in 2011.


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

Good to hear that the brokers are still looking for bees. In I hope a big pile of growers still need good bees. The reason I started this thread is it is a great informational tool to use in our negotiations next year. I would dare to bet that not many growers will be looking for $100 bees to start the season next year. I also hope that some of the bottom fish realize that $100 for this year is absurd. Everyone needs to start off minimally at 145-155 in 2012. The catch phrase in that sentence was MINIMALLY. In regards to that I think I'll start a new thread related to this thread. Good bees cost dearly to get them that way before going into the almonds.


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## LSPender (Nov 16, 2004)

It way to early to forcast amything yet, and I definately agree that it costs a lot to bring good hives.

Currently their are to many factors on the table that will effect prices 12 months from now, in fact we need to wait as long as possible because of them, ie. Fuel, sugar, queens ( if available). In general commodity prices have risen about 20% in the last year and this could excelarate, a lot of signs are in place for inflation in our economy and the biggest factor of all, can we produce and keep alive enough hives.

On that note I wish everyone a great and profitable year.


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## Matt Beekman (Dec 15, 2007)

I love it! This year's almond pollination isn't over and we are already thinking about what to charge in 2012. Always good to plan ahead. I don't think it is an accident that over the last five years, almond pollination rates have come close to equaling the annual cost for running a colony of bees. Add up all your costs for the last 12 months and divide them by the number of colonys you rented. Did you cover your costs? If not, there is always next year.


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## Trevor Mansell (Jan 16, 2005)

So whats the latest ?


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

Bee's start coming out in ten days. Haven't heard how the season went yet. From checking the weather channel, it seems to have been in the 60's with on and off again rain. Maybe someone out there will post an update or if I hear anything from the Johnsons I will post.


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## suttonbeeman (Aug 22, 2003)

Brian Johnson just called me...both loads released as of next monday. I think most orchards got covered but no extra bees. early blooming varieties may have not got pollinated really good due to cold wet weather. later varieties got great weather and bees have done much better!


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

suttonbeeman said:


> I think most orchards got covered but no extra bees. !


Modesto & fresno bee papers both had extra bees for rent all the way to the end, Also, many folks gave up and went home when they couldn't find a home. Some got kicked out due to frame strenth and opened a spot for some .


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

Following up on Keith's comment.

Was wondering if anyone every called these ads to see if the bees really still existed during the bloom? As I was watching the ads through an app on my phone they seem to disappear and not be reposted once the bloom was on about a week along. Who went home? How many hives went home early? How many hives got booted? How many 6-8+ framers really never got placed? 

Anyone have any hard info? This would be as in data gathered personally. I. E......You know someone who fits into these categories and was told so by the person. Lets throw out the hearsay.


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

OK;

912 ready in Florida for a bonus price, $180 or so to the grower. 

No need, they stayed there. But could've come. First hand.


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