# Frame for Top Bar



## Cur Dog (Jan 18, 2008)

I am completely new to Beekeeping and this site so I would like to say Hello. I hope to officially be a beekeeper in another month or so. I have a lot of concerns about handling the bars. I have read where mishandled bars with new comb are easily broken and create a mess. I have also read where sometimes the comb will be attached to the walls and will need to be cut loose. So my question: Is there a reason why a frame should not be built on the bars that would outline the hive with 3/8 bee space on the sides and bottom? It would look similar to \ / with the bar going across the top. I found one design that had a dowel in the center that formed a T with the bar but I don't think the results were very good. Are my concerns valid or am I just thinking too much?


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## Cooties (Mar 17, 2007)

Check out Youtube a few videos on handling top bars.


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## Tim Hall (Sep 14, 2007)

Cur Dog,

I'm in the same boat as you with experience, but I do know there's no reason you can't put a frame around your comb. Many beekeepers using conventional equipment have switched to "foundationless" frames. In other words they are doing exactly what you're proposing.

The big difference is they can buy their standardized frames cheaply and assemble them quickly. Making your own frames for a Kenyan-style TBH may prove to be more time and labor than it's worth.

Right now I have six "Kenyan" nucs ready to be delivered to a local beekeeper in the next day or two, and six full-size hives under construction. I have many of the concerns you have about comb failure and attachment, but I've simply resolved to get my hands dirty and deal with what may come. There certainly seems to be plenty of people handling comb attached only to a top bar. I'll let others chime in with possible solutions to these concerns.


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## Beth Boyer (Nov 21, 2007)

Hi CD, I started my first TBH last spring, they did really well over their first season. So far they're fine and I hope Spring will see them ready to expand (and me to split the colony). Don't worry too much about the combs. Those bees know what they are doing and make a very strong attachment to the bar. You can make a frame and attach it to the bar, but you will likely find that the bees still make burr comb and attach to the sides of the hive. The beauty of the TBH is in its simplicity, no frames. They're really not necessary. Just don't pick up combs of new white wax filled with honey on a hot, hot day and rotate the comb the wrong way. You'll be fine. Lift bars up (when necessary, keep hive intrusions to a minimum) and out of the hive. If you need to rotate, do so with the comb remaining vertical, never rotate the comb towards a horizontal position relative to the ground. Good luck!


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## Inge (Feb 27, 2008)

*German and loosing in translation*

beth when you say vertical and horizontal as in how to rotate and move the top bar can you please explain? Is the comb facing toward the feet of human while you slowly turn the bar? I am lost sorry


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

If you want to use frames, then why not just build a long hive that takes standard frames? One of the main reasons for using top bars only is to make it simple to build.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beeshorizontalhives.htm
http://www.bushfarms.com/beestopbarhives.htm

As far as handling the combs, it becomes second nature when you practice doing it. The biggest problems I see aren't with newbies, but with experienced beekeepers who have never used foundationless or a top bar before.

Be aware of the angle of the comb with the earth. Anytime you get flatways with a comb that is very heavy it's likely to break. Keep the combs "hanging" in tune with gravity. You can flip them over but you have to rotate them with the flat of the comb vertical (up and down, 90 degrees to the earth) and not horizontal (parallel to earth). You also need to check for attachments to walls, floor and other combs before you pull a comb out. Cut these attachments first if they are there. With a little practice this is all just second nature.


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## EngineeringBeek (Mar 4, 2008)

Building frames on a TBH mostly defeats the purpose of having a TBH in the first place. If you want frames then get some traditional equipment. TBH are made for their simplicity and incorporating frames into the design removes the simplicity and probably makes it even more complicated than a traditional hive.
In regards to keeping the comb vertical. Imagine the comb as a piece of card board. You always want to keep it vertical in the aspect that if you were to set it down on the ground in the way you're holding it, the edge or corner will touch the ground. You never want to hold it so that the flat part will touch the ground. You can turn the comb upside down but don't turn it so the flat part will be parallel to the ground.
If you have highspeed internet here is the youtube video mentioned earlier http://youtube.com/watch?v=oz0-J8KbI4M


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## Cur Dog (Jan 18, 2008)

Thanks everyone. I appreciate the tips and advice. I felt as if I was all worried over nothing and judging by the replies I believe it was confirmed. Thanks Again.


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