# Dual colony long hive



## Mary Goshorn (Jan 31, 2021)

Hello,
I have kept bees for three years in Denver, Colorado. I currently have two Langstroth hives, but am interested in building a long hive that can house two separate colonies. Does anyone have any experience with that? I am comfortable building things, and am wanting to move to a system that won't be so hard on my back as I age. The best space on our property will only fit one long hive, thus the desire to build one that can hold two colonies. Any references, anecdotes, plans, etc. would be much appreciated!
Cheers,
Mary G.


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## Murdock (Jun 16, 2013)

I've built two of them. 48" X Langstroth deep frames and entrances on the ends. Any shorter is a problem for dual colonies.
I used the Langstroth frame width to make them capatible to my other equipment. I made top bars 1 3/8 wide x 3/4 thick and 1/4 dowel rods for sides and a thin bottom bar. I use wire or fishing line to make 4 crossings to support the comb. Just drill dowel size holes in the top and bottom bars. A simple flat top off the frame / bar tops so the top is a couple of inches above the bars / frames (insulation or ventilation or both). I use the bars and frames interchangeably. They make great nuc type hives to grow resources. I put in a screened bottom board and plastic rails for oil pans (SHB management). They are heavy so plan where you are going to put it also how you are going to treat for mites. Keep it simple unless you do a lot of "what if" planning. Good luck, they are managed differently than Landstroths. Check out "The Layens Hive" or "Beekeeping with a Smile" for some ideas.


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## Mary Goshorn (Jan 31, 2021)

Thanks so much! I'll look into those references, as well.


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## ruthiesbees (Aug 27, 2013)

How large of a hive are you planning to build for this dual colony? I have 45" topbar hives with multiple entrances along the long side and I've tried dividing them and housing two colonies (or more as a mating queen castle) and after 6 weeks, one side is always more robust than the other. I am running screened bottoms so it does allow the queen scent to filter over to the other side and I guess one queen is stronger than the other one, even when they are both the same age.

I've also built a double wide LL that allowed me to fit 8 frame supers on top of it. The first year I ran it with two queens in the bottom box. By mid summer, the same thing had happened where one colony was much stronger than the other. Again, screened bottom. So that's been my experience with them so far.


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## Mary Goshorn (Jan 31, 2021)

Interesting. Have you heard of others being successful with dual hives? I wonder how they get around that issue...


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

Dr.Leo has a book "Keeping bees with a smile" Worth the 40$ I would recommend it.
has plans in it





Natural Beekeeping | Horizontal Hives | Do-It-Yourself Plans







horizontalhive.com





I did build one of the double deep lang long hives, it has 2x4 stud walls and 3.5 inch of insulation, so that would work for 2 hives, and you could add some supers as Laurie suggests.

GG


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## Murdock (Jun 16, 2013)

If you build one with 48" sides, put the end boards on the outside and that will give you enough space for 33 Langstroth frame / bar spaces. I think that entrances on the ends help keep the bees better separated and using the oil pans in place year round helps keep the scent isolated. you will definitely need a tight fitting STOP board in the middle if you are housing 2 colonies but that can be pulled / moved if one colony is bigger say in the case of a full hive and a nuc at the same time. I've never tried 2 full blown colonies but I did do a colony (20 bars) and a 5 frame nuc at the same time. The plastic political signs work well to cover Langstroth frame tops while working the other colony. Lots of things you can try / do with Longhives. I saw a video of an 8 footer where the person could lay down for a nap and listen to the bee buzz for relaxation.


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## Mary Goshorn (Jan 31, 2021)

I love that idea! Good motivation to make this happen. And thanks for your tips...


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## Mary Goshorn (Jan 31, 2021)

Gray Goose said:


> Dr.Leo has a book "Keeping bees with a smile" Worth the 40$ I would recommend it.
> has plans in it
> 
> 
> ...





Gray Goose said:


> Dr.Leo has a book "Keeping bees with a smile" Worth the 40$ I would recommend it.
> has plans in it
> 
> 
> ...


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## LAlldredge (Aug 16, 2018)

I have resource hives (2 queen system) from Dadant and they are indeed easier on your back. Mine are stacked with 3 boxes (4 frames each) vertically. Over wintering just fine in 6a.


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## msl (Sep 6, 2016)

Long Hive with Lang frames-multi use. Production or...


Multi use long hive, my project for this week: (Two queen production hive) When you consider the population volume (as shown below) It just makes sense to me to have a two queen hive in TRIPLE the space for the maximum benefit of a extremely large volume of bees. Post from Beeesource.com...




www.beesource.com





I run double nucs supered in common in the denver metro, and they can get quite large even with the small brood chamber do the 2 queen effect








in your plans remember you need to overwinter them as 2 single queen hives as they will often pick one side or other to cluster on leaving one queen stranded and dead.



ruthiesbees said:


> By mid-summer, the same thing had happened where one colony was much stronger than the other.


I often see this with emergy queens, far less with grafted ones. The difference in queen performance really stands out in muti queen hive where all else is equal.


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## Cariboospeed (Sep 12, 2018)

I built one, 32 frames long, and able to take two med supers on top under the lid. Currently has a colony in one end and a nuc in the other. I don't think I'll let it go to two full colonies, but keep one end open for making a split. I used front entrances, seem to work just fine, and cut to fit excluders to keep the queen in 8 frames at one end. I much prefer this design, the space under the lid when the med supers are off is great for feeders, leaving tools, extra frames, etc.


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## Mary Goshorn (Jan 31, 2021)

LAlldredge said:


> I have resource hives (2 queen system) from Dadant and they are indeed easier on your back. Mine are stacked with 3 boxes (4 frames each) vertically. Over wintering just fine in 6a.
> View attachment 62004


I really want to build one where I don't have to lift any boxes...


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## Mary Goshorn (Jan 31, 2021)

Cariboospeed said:


> I built one, 32 frames long, and able to take two med supers on top under the lid. Currently has a colony in one end and a nuc in the other. I don't think I'll let it go to two full colonies, but keep one end open for making a split. I used front entrances, seem to work just fine, and cut to fit excluders to keep the queen in 8 frames at one end. I much prefer this design, the space under the lid when the med supers are off is great for feeders, leaving tools, extra frames, etc.


Nice! Did you design it yourself, or use plans?


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## Cariboospeed (Sep 12, 2018)

Mary Goshorn said:


> Nice! Did you design it yourself, or use plans?


I just figured it out on my own, its not that hard. I used 3/8" plywood inside and out, 1.5"x 1.75" (2x4 ripped in half) framing and 1.5" polystyrene insulation. I also have one that is a single deep, and 33 frames long. I certainly wouldn't try to run a dual queen or two colonies in it, not enough capacity. Even with one colony, I try to keep swapping in empty frames next to the brood once a week or so


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## whitedog (Oct 21, 2020)

I have a 40 frame long lang that I have a follower board in it and run two colonies. It’s great! 

This summer I put a shared super on in the middle as well. But I could still access the brood frames without having to lift off the super.


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## Tigger19687 (Dec 27, 2014)

Unless you are going to make it like 10 feet long (lol) no.
You can START 2 colonies in one LL but you will need to move one sooner rather then later.
Just make 2


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Tigger19687 said:


> Unless you are going to make it like 10 feet long (lol) no.
> You can START 2 colonies in one LL but you will need to move one sooner rather then later.
> Just make 2


At some point I think the old adage about "not putting all your eggs in one basket" will start to apply.


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## Tigger19687 (Dec 27, 2014)

crofter said:


> At some point I think the old adage about "not putting all your eggs in one basket" will start to apply.


Yes exactly that is why you should build 2  
But I suppose you Could do a super LL where it is the size of a double long LL if you are NOT going to be moving it-ever. LOL So would that really be 1 basket ?

I have not built mine because I will be moving and there is no way in He-LL try to move that


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Tigger19687 said:


> Yes exactly that is why you should build 2
> But I suppose you Could do a super LL where it is the size of a double long LL if you are NOT going to be moving it-ever. LOL So would that really be 1 basket ?
> 
> I have not built mine because I will be moving and there is no way in He-LL try to move that


I am built rather close to the ground; I dont have the reach to easily work a hive from the ends of the frames. Find it tiring and not very precise when pulling or putting back frames without dragging adjacent frames or hive walls.


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## Tigger19687 (Dec 27, 2014)

crofter said:


> I am built rather close to the ground; I dont have the reach to easily work a hive from the ends of the frames. Find it tiring and not very precise when pulling or putting back frames without dragging adjacent frames or hive walls.


Work it from the sides. I plan on making my entrances on the ends (short wood side). I am only 5'6" so I really need to be on the side and hives only 1 layer deep, as in no stacked boxes. I actually can't wait to make the Layens hive come Spring


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Tigger19687 said:


> Work it from the sides. I plan on making my entrances on the ends (short wood side). I am only 5'6" so I really need to be on the side and hives only 1 layer deep, as in no stacked boxes. I actually can't wait to make the Layens hive come Spring


The layens might be a better proposition for me too if I went that route. In my cold climate I think the extra frame depth would be key for wintering. I think I have enough new irons in the fire though for the next summer; a couple of Dadant depth frame hives.


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## Tigger19687 (Dec 27, 2014)

crofter said:


> The layens might be a better proposition for me too if I went that route. In my cold climate I think the extra frame depth would be key for wintering. I think I have enough new irons in the fire though for the next summer; a couple of Dadant depth frame hives.


Yes, you are more North then I am and colder for sure  I was planning on doing the insulated Layens with Roxul instead of the foam. I think I will get better R value, it's said mice and such don't like it, won't lose shape. I can't do supers any more, just too heavy and tall for me at my age


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## little_john (Aug 4, 2014)

Some years back I converted a 48" KTBH into a 'square' dual-colony 12" deep Long Hive, and to begin with everything was fine. Then, early one winter I discovered what others in this thread have found, that one colony had more-or-less deserted it's rather elderly (but much loved by me) queen and had joined forces with the neighbouring colony which was headed by a brand-new queen, leaving just a couple of hundred bees behind.

This coincided with a serious blizzard direct from The Urals being forecast (which became known as the "Beast from the East"), and it was only by inserting a heater frame and maintaining that half of the hive above clustering temperature for the next 3 months that I was able to save that venerable old lady in order to take a last set of daughters from her.

I decided then and there that in future it would only ever be "one hive, one colony", and duly cut the box in half. Years later it's still giving good service, but now as two separate 16-frame 14x12 hives.
'best,
LJ


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

I sometimes wonder if the benefit of having two colonies in one box is the "cute or novelty" factor. Like the usefulness of unicycles or 300,000 _Scovilles _hot peppers!

LJ, I was beginning to wonder if the Covid Bug had caught you. MIA for quite a while!


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

little_john said:


> Some years back....


LJ, welcome back!


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## little_john (Aug 4, 2014)

crofter said:


> I sometimes wonder if the benefit of having two colonies in one box is the "cute or novelty" factor. Like the usefulness of unicycles or 300,000 _Scovilles _hot peppers!
> 
> LJ, I was beginning to wonder if the Covid Bug had caught you. MIA for quite a while!


Hi Frank - I think there *may *be a case for multiple colonies in a divided box when they're small - such as nucs or mating-nucs - but even then, my own results with those have been dismal. Others swear by queen-castles etc. - so they must work for some people ...

Covid ? No self-respecting virus would have any interest in me ...  But seriously, I've had the jab (first of two), so I can now afford to relax a bit. The country's still totally locked-down which is proving to be a royal pain in the backside - but I really pity those poor sods who are living in single-room bedsits in cities - at least I have an acreage to wander around in.

FWIW, I eventually found a solution to the animated graphics which caused me to bail out - but it required installing the latest Firefox, which in turn required at least Windows 7 - so I duly made-up a dual-boot XP-Win7 system. Installing a new system in order to visit just one problematic website has been something of a hassle - but then, the BeeSource forum is head and shoulders above all the others - so needs must. 

... and many thanks to Greg and JWP for the kind words.
LJ


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## CO BeeGuy (Mar 7, 2021)

Mary Goshorn said:


> Hello,
> I have kept bees for three years in Denver, Colorado. I currently have two Langstroth hives, but am interested in building a long hive that can house two separate colonies. Does anyone have any experience with that? I am comfortable building things, and am wanting to move to a system that won't be so hard on my back as I age. The best space on our property will only fit one long hive, thus the desire to build one that can hold two colonies. Any references, anecdotes, plans, etc. would be much appreciated!
> Cheers,
> Mary G.


Hello from Palmer Lake, south of you. We moved here from the Bay Area 3 yrs ago where we kept bees for 9 yrs. Just now getting hives set up. Picking up two packages next month in your neck of the woods. I built a horizontal hive recently, after seeing our church pastors'. It got me intrigued. I watched a lot of videos on long hives. I built it thinking the whole time that I would put both packages in it. Then I did the math. It is 50" long and holds 32 frames, minus room for frame feeders. A Langstroth with two deep boxes holds 20 frames. Not going to work! So I dug out my 8 frame stuff I brought with me and will stick one hive in it. BTW, bears are a problem here, so I extended our chicken coop with a bearproof(I hope) 8 ft coop with wire roof and tarps and set up both in it. Will keep most of the snow and rain off them. Good luck on your end.


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## Cariboospeed (Sep 12, 2018)

All came through well, it was very mild winter, only one week or so of -30C.


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