# Drought vs Almonds



## johnwratcliff (Feb 24, 2015)

Unfortunate this is a problem that no one will address in California or at a federal level. They have been out of water for years. It's sad for many. But as long as people can buy almonds they will be needed.


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

Don't believe the hype 100% 

4000 acres planted within 5 miles of my place this winter......... The way I look at it there's a major shortage of skilled help to run another 10,000 hives....

Two or three offers a week for our place. More calls from realtors than package buyers.

600 acre places selling for 30k for dirt only..... Thats per acre.

At those prices they will find water..... And bees. 


EL Loco


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## Duncan MacLeod (Jul 24, 2014)

Honey-4-All said:


> Don't believe the hype 100%
> 
> 4000 acres planted within 5 miles of my place this winter......... The way I look at it there's a major shortage of skilled help to run another 10,000 hives....
> 
> ...


But it's got to be a bubble, right? The latecomers are buying and planting on the lure of past pay outs, even in the face of grim future prognosis. Feels like there is a crash coming....don't know exactly what it will look like.


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## high rate of speed (Jan 4, 2008)

That's what they said about grapes here in Cali to.vineyards are still getting planted.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Duncan MacLeod said:


> But it's got to be a bubble, right?


It has that feel to it yet.....several decades ago I spent a few weeks in CA and looked at the real estate ads in various newspapers....and couldn't believe that such outrageous prices could continue for very long. Yet here we are....as I said.....decades later and the prices are higher than ever. I wouldn't bet my future on them continuing to find enough water.....but I wouldn't bet against it either.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

johnwratcliff said:


> Unfortunate this is a problem that no one will address in California or at a federal level.


 What is the solution?


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

It's one of those situations where economic growth and environmental concerns collide. My understanding is there is lots of water in Northern California but the Salmon runs and environmental laws take precedence. I would think at some point the water shortage is going to reach critical mass and that is when things will get really interesting.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

There could be a bubble, but the drought may cut supply somewhat, which always increases demand which is why acreage will increase around 3% in the next couple years, even with the drought. Lot of guys moving up from the south since our water is a little more stable as well. I have no sympathy for the trees in the desert drying up, they were told no permanent crops a long time ago, but hey, with this market, I guess it was worth the risk during the good years.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

Jim,

I won't argue about fish vs. people aspect, but no matter what, the fish always get the short end of the stick anyways when you look at the data. They never hold enough water for them, but you don't destroy entire ecosystems so you can water some trees for export commodities that were planted in functional deserts. I don't see preserving natural habitat over the needs of greed and people as being extremist which people seem to be labelling conservation as these days. If it was all about getting water to the people, perhaps I would change my opinion, but when the water districts are making hundreds of millions on it, it kind of sours the whole thing.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

JRG13 said:


> Jim,
> 
> I won't argue about fish vs. people aspect, but no matter what, the fish always get the short end of the stick anyways when you look at the data. They never hold enough water for them, but you don't destroy entire ecosystems so you can water some trees for export commodities that were planted in functional deserts. I don't see preserving natural habitat over the needs of greed and people as being extremist which people seem to be labelling conservation as these days. If it was all about getting water to the people, perhaps I would change my opinion, but when the water districts are making hundreds of millions on it, it kind of sours the whole thing.


I'm not saying I disagree, just sayin..........


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

It would be nice to have some more storage (reservoirs) here in Cali for both flood & drought control, whats going on now is just greed, water to the highest bidder.


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## Flyer Jim (Apr 22, 2004)

Keith Jarrett said:


> It would be nice to have some more storage (reservoirs) here in Cali for both flood & drought control, whats going on now is just greed, water to the highest bidder.



highest bidder? money or votes? I think there are some that want the state to turn.... humm? brown 

http://nodeltagates.com/2013/07/10/caltrans-sign-removal/
The story came to light when a farmer who was displaying “Stop the Tunnel” signs on his private property on Highway 160 called Restore the Delta to report the “theft”


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

California rain goes in cycles, long ones. There's normally been less rain than at present. The last 400 years has seen the top of a cycle with much higher rainfall than normal, this may be coming to an end.

People still buying in at astronomical prices is typical short term behaviour of the human species, this behaviour is the cause of the boom and bust cycles we have in banking, property, or any artificially engineered human construct.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Flyer Jim said:


> highest bidder? I think there are some that want the state to turn.... humm? brown ”


Hey Jimmy.... Look out the window.... it's brown now.... soon to be black.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Oldtimer said:


> California rain goes in cycles, long ones.


Well said, OT


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

I keep wondering how long it will take you Kalifornians to realize that the Great Lakes arethe worlds largest fresh water system,and have 21 percent of the earth's fresh water, and want some of it. The first hole in the **** is starting. The city of Waukesha, Wisconsin; very close to lake Michigan, but in the Mississippi watershed, has petitioned for access to lake water. If the flood gates open, how far would it flow?

Crazy Roland



w


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## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

dsegrest said:


> Fish don't make campaign contributions.


Its the fish they are "trying to save".........its the political excuse to keep the water flowing South. Fish are the Red Legged Frogs (political mascot for land rights) of the water rights.

Its funny how the government tries to use the excuse of saving the salmon to keep the water flowing down the Sacramento River just so it will end up heading south, through the proposed "So Cal Straws" or pipelines they want to install. Yet, the DFW was forced to kill millions of salmon smelt because there was no funding to raise them to fingerling size and then release them.

Gonna be a lot of strong arm politics being used as long as the liquid gold is in shortage. And it all starts with the media saying it takes 1 gallon of water to produce a nut.


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## high rate of speed (Jan 4, 2008)

Gee Phil, what's that old saying everything in Texas is big. Not.or the other one,if you pay them peanuts you get monkeys. Great posts.


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## high rate of speed (Jan 4, 2008)

Looks like the left side is winning again.


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## acbz (Sep 8, 2009)

BeeGhost said:


> it all starts with the media saying it takes 1 gallon of water to produce a nut.


Is this hype, or accurate? I also read that statistic and it seems hard to believe. But it also makes you wonder how many gals of water it takes to grow a bushel of corn, or an apple, a steak, or a gallon of milk. I suspect it takes a lot of water for most ag.


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

I will have to compare our water bill to almond production records and report back. My guess is that as with all statistics these are meant to tell a bit of a "fish" story.. 

Possible but unlikely accurate.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

I expect it takes a lot of water to keep an almond tree alive for a year. Much of that water goes into producing leaves, and growth of the tree and root system, not to mention general survival. Some actually goes to produce the almond as well. I'd bet they took the total annual consumption of an average tree and divided it by the average number of almonds a tree produces. I have some oak trees in my yard that consume huge amounts of water each year and I'd bet, using the same method it'd take twenty or thirty gallons to produce each acorn. Is that a fair method? I don't have an opinion but I'm guessing that anything planted on that acreage would consume similar amounts.


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## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

I would like the media to find out how many gallons of water the average swimming pool loses to evaporation per week. Also how many gallons per sqft of lawn area to keep it green, how many gallons to fight an average forest fire, how many gallons a steer/hog/chicken drinks in its life time before slaughter, how many gallons its takes to wash a car. The list can go on and on.

The ONLY thing that really makes me mad is what is being ripped out to plant orchards of almonds. I just noticed last week that they disced a few hundred acres of alfalfa and have graded it and are trenching it to run pipe for you guessed it..........almonds. Also seen a freshly planted orchard of almonds where safflower was grown a couple years ago.

There has to be something that can be done or something planted to alleviate the monoculture that almonds produce, something viable to pollinators and wildlife. I understand it has to be bare underneath for harvest time........but what about every 5th row for 100 yards some sort of plant that is beneficial to us!!!


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

I have been with the same almond grower for many years.
I stay in the same motel every year, often the same room. (because I can see my truck)
Last season the toilet was running, and running HARD.
I thought that I would shut off the valve behind the toilet to save water between flushes.
Oddly, the valve did not work. As much water ran with the valve closed as open.
So I reported the problem to the management.
After all; they are aware of the water shortage, right?
When I went down to retrieve my bees, I got the same room.
Yep! Water still running.
I'll bet it is still running right now.
What do you guess; 3 - 5 gallons per minute, 24 hours daily, 365?

OH! Ahemmmmmmm!!! "The drought is because of almond growers"
Yeah. Thats the ticket!


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## xroads (Apr 9, 2013)

I read somewhere that leaking toilets/faucets in CA alone is a billion gallons a year.





HarryVanderpool said:


> I have been with the same almond grower for many years.
> I stay in the same motel every year, often the same room. (because I can see my truck)
> Last season the toilet was running, and running HARD.
> I thought that I would shut off the valve behind the toilet to save water between flushes.
> ...


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

The worst is people complaining about the water release for the fish.... where does that water go... the Delta, where do we pump water for Socal from... the Delta...


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## Brian Suchan (Apr 6, 2005)

7-8k $ an acre in so cal for irragation. According to the article ine the new abj. Is this true??


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