# 8 lbs. of honey to make 1 lb. of wax. So how much is 1 lb. of wax



## AR Beekeeper (Sep 25, 2008)

One pound of wax will make around 30,000 cells, this is equal to 4 1/2 to 5 deep frames.


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

In the dadant catalog one lb of fdn equals 7 sheets . a drawn comb would be a whole lot less. my guess would be that 1lb of wax may equal 1-3 drawn frames of comb. this shows the value of good combs and why a crush and strain system is not very good.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

I wonder what is the survival benefit in the burr comb they build. They can sure draw out comb in a hurry if they see the need. 

There are charts that try do do a fair comparison of honey production from hive to hive on foundation vs drawn comb. I think it falls short of the 8 lbs per frame but it does cost production somehow.


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## MJuric (Jul 12, 2010)

Assuming I did my models and math right...always a a big "If", A deep frame, based on a 4.9mm cell with a .05mm wall thickness drawn to a 1.375 total width would weigh ~.1471lbs while a medium would weigh ~.0962 lbs.

That means that under perfect conditions you'd get 6.7 frames of a deep and 10.39 frames of a medium out of a lb of wax.

My guess is that in the real world that number is going to be all over the place. A slightly thicker/thinner wall, bigger/smaller cells, capping/no capping, full frame partially frame, not drawn as deep etc. 

I really don't think there is a big difference between full foundation or starter strip as far as wax use. The foundation sheet only makes up ~6-10% of the total volume of the comb depending how deep the cells of the foundation are. 

No idea if there is conversion factor for syrup to honey or not. Assuming I'm even close it would take 11.768lbs of honey to fully draw out on deep. 

A full hive started from foundation would consume around 42.782lbs of honey to fully draw out a two deep, two medium super hive...geez no wonder they tell you to not expect anything from a new hive 

~Matt


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

bendriftin said:


> So I keep hearing that it takes 8 lbs. of honey to make 1 lb. of wax. ....... If a person if feeding syrup is it still 8 lbs of 1:1 to get one pound of wax? Thank You


I've heard that quote many, many times myself and there are a great many that believe it's true. I don't know if the belief that it is true is based in fact or due to the constant repeating. 

I've also heard often that it may take 8 pounds of nectar for the bees to draw out a pound of wax. 

Now, producing 8 pounds of honey requires far more than 8 pounds of nectar. After all, the bees have to evaporate the nectar down to below 20% moisture. I'm guessing the costs in honey to produce that wax is far less than 8 pounds. If you are feeding syrup, I believe that your cost in pounds of syrup will more closely approximate the cost in pounds of nectar, not honey.

Certainly, my above comments are not based or any scientific documentation, just logic which may or may not be proven faulty. Any comments?

Wayne


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## Bsweet (Apr 9, 2010)

In the top bar section the question of 8#s of honey to make 1# wax was raised and sqkck (Mark) gave a referance from 1985 (?) that states 2-4# of honey to make 1# of wax. Jim


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Here is the link to lost honey production due to comb building efforts compared to drqwn comb.

http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/articles/fdnvsdrawn.htm


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

First, I think it's an unfounded myth used to sell foundation to beekeepers. Second, wax holds up a lot of weight of honey.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesharvest.htm#expenseofwax

"A pound (0.4536 kg.) of beeswax, when made into comb, will hold 22 pounds (10 kg.) of honey. In an unsupported comb the stress on the topmost cells is the greatest; a comb one foot (30 cm.) deep supports 1320 times its own weight in honey."


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## MJuric (Jul 12, 2010)

Michael Bush said:


> First, I think it's an unfounded myth used to sell foundation to beekeepers.


Regardless of pound of honey to wax it would be a "Myth" to try and sell foundation based on this idea. Not including the partial cells of the foundation the "Blank sheet" only makes up 6% of the volume of the entire comb. More depending on how high the foundation cells are.

So you can put in foundation and they still have to make the whole comb. which means they'd still consume 7.52 lbs of honey to do the same amount of comb they previously would have used 8 pounds for. Not much of a savings.

~Matt


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

My estimate, based on the ratios I've seen, is that it would take 29.2 pounds of nectar to produce that 8 pounds of honey to make that 1 pound of wax. (Based on 3.65 lbs nectar/1 pound honey.)

I think it is an important distinction to know if it is 8 pounds of nectar or 8 pounds of honey.

Wayne


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

The 8 pounds of honey = 1 pound of wax subject comes up a couple times a year and as far as I have seen, nobody has ever provided a decent reference to support these numbers. Not saying it isnt true, just havnt been convinced enough to repeat it as gospel.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

There have been a few studies done on it (starting with Huber and his Volume II of Observations on Bees). But it is very difficult if not impossible to have a hard fast number because of several factors. One, you confine the bees in order to control things. But how much of the honey/syrup was burned for the overhead of the hive rather than the making or wax? Two, it has already been proven that the efficiency of wax production changed over time for a given bee. So a young bee who starts making wax is more efficient than an older bee who "regresses" back to making wax. Also the young bee who is making wax is less efficient at first than they are as time goes on. In other words they get better at it. So it takes a log more honey for a older bee who has gone back to wax making to make a pound of wax and considerably less for a young bee at its peak of production.


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

The bees go through alot of syrup when building comb in the spring. It is probably safe to say they consume a fair bit of honey to produce it. Need engery from somewhere.
One way to find out how much would be...two equal hives at the start. One on foundation, one on drawn comb. Same age queens and same breed of queen. A log of feed given, amount of honey collected by the beekeeper and the amount of bees at the end of the year. And the weight of the hive too. See what one comes up with


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