# Building Hives



## wheeler88 (Mar 6, 2011)

Check this out:

http://www.beesource.com/build-it-yourself/10-frame-langstroth-barry-birkey/

http://www.myoldtools.com/Bees/bottomboard/bottomboard.htm


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

I have built 4 double deep 10 frame langstroths including the frames. all from found wood. so the cost was nothing but my time. I am still looking for some exterior oops paint to keep that cost down as well. I plan to make 3 med supers for each hive in time. still looking for the wood to make those. I also managed to get 4 nuc boxes out of the free wood.


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## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

Have built some supers and Beesource link above does provide proper inside dimensions. However, I question the vertical height dimensions as it results in greater than 3/8 or bee space vertically between frames. Frames being 9 1/8 and dimension is 9 5/8 results in 1/2 space. Seems to encourage comb, honey and drone brood that is messy to clean. 9 1/2 makes more sense to me


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## Fishman43 (Sep 26, 2011)

mgolden said:


> However, I question the vertical height dimensions as it results in greater than 3/8 or bee space vertically between frames. Frames being 9 1/8 and dimension is 9 5/8 results in 1/2 space. Seems to encourage comb, honey and drone brood that is messy to clean. 9 1/2 makes more sense to me


:scratch: outside dimensions are 9 5/8 but you have a 5/8 rabbit for the frame rest. You need to measure your boxes again with your frames inside and see what your bee space really is.

I have built 50% of my boxes but find that time is my most precious commodity and I don't save enough $ making my own to justify the extra time. I do buy boxes that ihave to assemble and make a lot of my other equipment though. If you are interested in wood working why not give it a try, if not it probably won't save you much in the long run in my opinion.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

The secret to saving money is get your wood for free. Get to know some building contractors and get into their scrap piles for short pieces of wood, Advantec, etc.

I have built all of mine for years, and now build them and sell with bees. Lots of fun to build, and I buy very little wood. 

Also check out uTube for Videos on how to make them. Go to uTube and then search whatever you want to make. 

If you have specific questions, I will try to answer them for you. Contact me at [email protected]

cchoganjr.


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## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

Fishman43 said:


> :scratch: outside dimensions are 9 5/8 but you have a 5/8 rabbit for the frame rest. You need to measure your boxes again with your frames inside and see what your bee space really is.
> 
> Yes I know, there is a 5/8 rabbet for frame rest. I have no idea what you are talking about.
> 
> I have stacked the supers with a couple of frames in them and measured the frame to frame vertical spacing and suggest you do the same.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

mgolden...Just curious, what did your vertical spacing measurements come out to.

The thickness of the top bar hanging on the rabbet, is also part of your bee space equasion, between the two boxes.. Bee space also depends on if the inner cover, (or migratory cover) is flush with the top of the box, or there is an indention in it.

cchoganjr


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## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

I'll make the math and visulization simple. Say I put in a frame rest so that the top of the top bar of the frame is flush with the top of the super. If the frame is 9 1/8 and the super is 9 5/8 then the bottom the frame to the bottom of the super is 1/2.

If the super below is visulized the same, then the top of the frame below is flush with the top of super. So 1/2 space.

Inner covers in our climate are ver common and have 3/8 rims on both sides of them. So bee space just under inner cover is accounted for. Inner covers provide top entrance, ventilation, wood to absorb any problem moisture build up before it drips, 3/8 air insulation space on top side of inner cover.


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## Samaria Honey (Sep 30, 2011)

Are we saying that 1/2 inch is too much space between frames


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

mgolden... I guess that is the difference. My boxes, (and Kelly's) are 9 9/16. The top bar is only 3/8 inch where it hangs on the rabbet, so you have 1/4 inch above the top bar. In other words, the top bar is not level with the top of the super, bur rather is 1/4 below.. Thus, Kelly inner covers and migratory covers are flush with the top and do not have the 3/8 inch rim that some companies have. I think the term normally used is having bottom bee space or top bee space.

If yours are flush with the top of the super, and you used a flat migratory cover or flat inner cover, the bees would glue the top bars to the top, because there is no bee space. So, your inner covers have the raised 3/8 to allow bee space above the top bars. Works great as long as you don't interchange equipment from different manufacturers.

cchoganjr


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

There should be that extra 1/8 to 1/4 from the top bar to the top of the hive giving you at least 3/8 bee space.


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## cerezha (Oct 11, 2011)

Building your own equipment is a lot of fun! But from financial point of view it is not profitable in my opinion - depends, how much free time you have and how valuable your time is? If you buy cheapest ugliest wood in Home Depot (only option to me) - cost of materials would be approximately the same as unassembled commercial unit of comparable size. I have a lot of fun "inventing" new designs for beehive components, but if one converts it into the money, my boxes would cost probably $100 apiece. But I just very happy to work with wood - it brings me back in my childhood when I observed how my grandfather worked with plane, he was a carpenter. I already made more boxes than I needed...


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

mgolden said:


> Have built some supers and Beesource link above does provide proper inside dimensions. However, I question the vertical height dimensions as it results in greater than 3/8 or bee space vertically between frames. Frames being 9 1/8 and dimension is 9 5/8 results in 1/2 space. Seems to encourage comb, honey and drone brood that is messy to clean. 9 1/2 makes more sense to me


I agree with reservations. The proper hive body depth is closer to 9 1/2 than 9 5/8. The reason for the extra depth in commercially produced equipment is the wood they use. The wood isn't completely dry...would be warped and cupped it they mill the parts from dry wood. So the manufacturers cut the boards a bit wide so when the wood shrinks, the hive body won't be undersized...which is worse than a bit oversized.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Samaria Honey said:


> Are we saying that 1/2 inch is too much space between frames


We are.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Adjust as you feel the need to. I've kept bees in boxes with these dimensions for over 15 years without any issue. Go figure. Guess the bees aren't that picky.


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## Samaria Honey (Sep 30, 2011)

This is my first full year in beekeeping learning as I go and hives here in my area to buy is kind of expensive around $20 for brood boxes 9 5/8 cut out I put them together, just trying to see if I can save.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

Without going into all the details of why. the dimensions of the frame in combination of the actual distance from the surface the frame rests on to the bottom of the box. results in a frame that sets 1/4 inch below the top edge of the box and is 1/8 inch short of the bottom of the box. when stacked there is a 3/8 inch bee space between the bottom of the frames in the upper box and the top of the frames in the lower box. I have 15 boxes with frames total that I have built from these drawings. It may be a bit of slight of hand type effect but it does work out with the dimensions as they are on the plans.


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## johns bees (Jan 25, 2009)

Samaira Honey I have been keeping bees for two years know and I have made all of my equipment tops, bottoms screened and unscreened All of of my supers deep and shallow even feeders. I use a table saw and 1/4 inch by 1 3/4 staples I also use glue on all my joints frames to . I tried to make frames got about fifty before I said the heck with this and ordered frames from Western Bee Supply. I buy all my lumber from a real lumber yard Home Depot prices will send you to the poor . I can make a deep for about 4 or 5 dollars shallows for about 3 to 4.50 depends on the price of wood I used the plans from the University of Min. real easy plans to follow. Good luck on building your own equipment.


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## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

If your rough stock is nearly dry, as is plywood for example, then bee space is 1/2 inch. Another example is dry salvaged lumber.

9 5/8 is quite liberal and depending on dryness of material it will result in bee space being violated.


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## Samaria Honey (Sep 30, 2011)

Have done some math on wood ware #2 grade 10'x 8"x1 and 10'x12"x1 the brood wood for 2 brood boxes 2 small supers bottom board inner cover top cover with metal and bottom board with screen all for $30 per hive


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Check the actual planed width of the nominal 1 X 10 stock. I believe it is too narrow to make deep hive bodies.


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## cg3 (Jan 16, 2011)

Yeah. Most 1x10s are 9 1/4".


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## Samaria Honey (Sep 30, 2011)

Sorry 12" wide come's up to about $8.40 a box


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

If you cut down 1x10s for shallows, you can use the left over to make bases and covers. A sheet of 3/8" CDX works well for the rest of the covers, and you could use it for a standard baseboard too if you want. I use screens at the moment, might change.

Deeps have to come from 1x12s unless you are willing to glue boards together. This isn't a big deal if you use Titebond III and don't care if you can see the joint. It's going to be painted on the outside anyway, a slight off-set won't matter.

Good thing is that while expensive to start with, the woodenware should last decades if kept painted and in use -- frames warp badly if left outside in the weather. 

I strongly recommend metal on covers of any type. Aluminum flashing is cheap and easy to bend, and the metal will result in a cover that lasts essentially forever. You can also add a fairly thick layer of newspaper underneath, and that adds insulation in a good place.

Once I get the yard under control (i.e. when it freezes) I have some projects to work on in the garage -- boxes for two or three more hives, a Dadant Deep (or whatever size I end up with using 1x12s) and a huge pile of frames.

At least this is an excuse to use all that woodworking equipment I have lying about!

Peter


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## Samaria Honey (Sep 30, 2011)

Totally agree you just made me think about using my biscut jointer


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

psfred; 

I am toyin with the idea of a super deep of some description too. Thought of using two stacked medium boxes so I dont have to create any bastard boxes or use wide stock. I will be making custom length endbars to suit standard top and bottom bars. Seems like that would make endbars ~12 3/4 tall. 

Just meditating on it!


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

I am with you guys on the inside dimensions. I was just running stock through my planer and called it good enough at just under an inch. I figured removing the planer skiffs was not worth the wear and tear on the equipment. I just added a ¼” to the outside dimension and hope the bees will forgive me for the stack of hives not being exactly flush. Built about a hundred frames last year and a bunch of boxes. Nothing is perfect (or exactly square) but I did not get any major brace comb in any of them.
I just changed direction and started gluing up my wood to a set of cider press plans. You should have seen the kids faces when I told them to stack all of the bee gear in the corner because we were ‘switching gears’


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Samaria Honey said:


> Sorry 12" wide come's up to about $8.40 a box


You're spending too much on the lumber. No saw mills in Kentucky?


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## Fishman43 (Sep 26, 2011)

Michael Palmer said:


> You're spending too much on the lumber. No saw mills in Kentucky?


MP, I have priced 1x8 stock (i run mediums) everywhere I can find it here in the seacoast area. For kiln dried finished (not rough cut) stock it costs me roughly $6 per box. Granted I could buy rough cut wet stock for almost 1/3 the price but as of now I don't have a thickness planer and wet wood takes forever to dry with other issue cropping up. Do you have any tips/tricks for building cheaper boxes?


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

Fisherman, MP, Samoria Honey, others, ....The best way to build cheaper boxes is get the wood for free. Several years ago I got in with 4 or 5 roofers, and they save me their 1 X 12 cutoffs. (Boards are anywhere from 12 inches long, enough for a nuc, up to about 3 + feet, enough for a length or possibly front and length). 1 X 12 is used for roof sheeting. Unfortunately roofers are going away from 1 X 12, and there is not as much available as before, but it is still available. I get lots of it every year. Give them a jar or two honey occasionally and they will save for you. For my own boxes, (those I don't sell), I use 1 X 4, 1 X 6, 1 X 10, and glue with titebond lll to make my deeps and nucs. (After painting you will not see the difference from the outside.)

Also keep an eye out for buildings, schools, etc that are closing. They quite often have large quantities of 1 X 12 shelving in them that will be torn out and thrown away. Don't be bashful about asking the Realty Company or the Contractor what they are going to do with the shelving in the building. 

A few good contractors are the beekeepers best friend when it comes to free wood. Most of them just throw away or burn their cutoffs and what they tear out. But, for a little honey, they will save the pieces for you.

As for a thickness planer, keep an eye out on Craigs list for a simple bench top, planer. You can pick up a Delta 22-540 or 22-560 for less than $150.00. New blades are $25 to $30.00. A Ryobi will be even less, DeWalt a little more, but, if you are only going to build a few boxes each year, they will do great. Cut your boards to length before planing and you don't place as much strain on these benchtop planers. Find a sawmill in your area, and give them a jar or two honey and have them save you short boards, boards with soft spots etc that they can't sell. They throw them away or sell as slabs, but I have good luck having them save them for me. If a 10 foot board has a bad spot in the middle, it will still make a box from the two ends. Sawmills don't normally fool with anything that is less than 8ft long. If you get wet wood, strip and stack, and let set for a year and it will cure. 

Free is the way to go to cut down on lumber cost, but, lots of saw mills in Kentucky. Many of them Amish or Mennonite mills, and I have found them very easy to deal with.

cchoganjr


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## Fishman43 (Sep 26, 2011)

Good tips Cleo. I don't think the roofers in my area use the 1x12's for sheathing with snow loads what they are it is heavy duty plywood for us. I will still keep an eye out for scrap (have had posts on Freecycle with no luck for while). I most definitely will ask the mills for shorter stock. I don't have much more room for stacking and curing wood without raising hackles of my other half.


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