# CCD and Clothianidin



## Bodo (Mar 11, 2008)

I was under the impression that it is a seed coat only, not an applied product.
So, it can't be sprayed...



> In the meantime it is now certain that the regionally confined bee losses reported at the beginning of May were due to a combination of different factors. Abrasion from a number of incorrectly treated maize seed batches had caused dust to be blown into the surrounding area during sowing. The emissions were reinforced by the use of certain types of pneumatic maize sowing machines in combination with strong winds. As soon as the incident was reported, Bayer CropScience worked to clarify the matter in cooperation with the competent authorities and gave the Ministry its support throughout the investigations


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

You are right in that it is "supposed" to be applied in an enclosed plant, but according to the article - "According to the US Environmental Protection Agency's fact sheet on the pesticide, "clothianidin is highly toxic to honey bees." Seeds are treated with the clothianidin in advance or sprayed with it while in the field, and the insecticide can blow onto other crops as well. The chemical is often sprayed on corn fields during the spring planting to create a sort of protective film on cornfields."

From the article it states that spaying of the chemical took place.

Here is another article and the banning of Clothianidin in Germany of May this year. Of importance wat this finding "According to the German Research Centre for Cultivated Plants 29 out of 30 dead bees it had examined had been killed by contact with clothianidin. Also wild bees and other insects are suffering from a significant loss of population."

http://www.cbgnetwork.org/2517.html

http://www.cbgnetwork.org/2517.html


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

In looking for more info on Clothianidin I found this.

Colony Collapse Disorder Debunked: Pesticides Cause Bee Deaths

http://www.naturalnews.com/023679.html

Of course consider the source, but it appears there is something linked to these and in France and Germany they are banning the substances...


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## Bodo (Mar 11, 2008)

According to the EPA, it's only allowed for use as a seed coat. So if anyone is spraying in the States, they're doing so illegally.

It's a nasty Chemical though...


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

>>>".Clothianidin has the potential for toxic chronic exposure to honey bees, as well as other nontarget pollinators,through the translocation of clothianidin residues in nectar and pollen."<<<

Obviously I am no biologist, but doesn't this mean that residues may be in the grown plant, as you won't find much nectar and pollen in a seed, and this could pose a potential hazard? This seems like the EPA is saying there is a potential hazard beyond any spraying, legal or otherwise. After all, isn't the point of these pesticides not only as a seed treatment per se but as a toxic substance to insect pests that attack the plant once it is grown?
Sheri


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## Bodo (Mar 11, 2008)

Correct

The question is how much makes its way into the pollen and/or nectar and how much is needed to kill a bee. I'm not sure that that information is available.


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## drobbins (Jun 1, 2005)

this was in the local paper the other day
sounds like the EPA is being oh so helpful

http://www.newsobserver.com/print/friday/business/story/1188499.html

Dave


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## Aspera (Aug 1, 2005)

Some of these seed treatments are designed to protect against early aphids on the seedlings. I've often wondered what would happen if the bees are making honeydew honey from intoxicated aphids.


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## France (Apr 5, 2007)

Just my two cents worth on the loses mentioned above...

I am in contact with EU beekeepers on daily basis and I should ad that there were massive losses from coated corn seeds or spraying in other European countries and not only in Germany.
Loses were reported also from Great Britain and were termed as catastrophic by their media!? Estimates are at around 50% loss of honeybee colonies and countless other insects and creatures?
(Should also note that English as well as German beekeeping fraternity endorsed the use of those treatments. That shows - that power of money can reach also in our own troops?!)
Loses were also massive in Slovenia, Poland, Italy, France, Croatia Greece, Spain and also some rumblings from a few other countries, but nothing that they would care to put down on paper...

To those who doubt that clothianidin is harmful - if properly used: 
This stuff, Clothianidin is used in various other products and is not only found on coated corn seeds. (In Germany it came down to how it was sown and windy conditions.)
Or I should perhaps put it this way? 
Chlothianidin based pesticides are sold under about two dozen diferent brand names and almost every country and/or distributing company can get it under its own name brand if so desires. . . . 

And lastly: The intended treatment is to protect the seed/plant from all creatures who intend to do it harm! This poison does not differentiate bad bugs from beneficial. It targets everything that takes a mouth-full! From bees, ladybugs, butterflies, wild bees to countless birds and bats and everything in between that happens to take a snack on affected creature who already ingested a dose - even frogs, would you believe. . ?

Now - the question is how safe is such food for us and the animals it feeds? 
(To answer that one - one need not to be a rocket scientist. . .)


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## taipantoo (Nov 9, 2007)

Bodo said:


> According to the EPA, it's only allowed for use as a seed coat. So if anyone is spraying in the States, they're doing so illegally.
> 
> It's a nasty Chemical though...


Some commercial planters use pneumatic equipment to inject the seed into the ground.
The air pressure blows some of the coating off of the seed.
It also persists in the environment so cover crops also get contaminated.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*The company med an application error by the*

Date: Mon 9 Jun 2008
Source: Institute of Science in Society (ISIS) [edited]

Germany's emergency ban
-----------------------
The German Federal Office of Consumer Protection and Food Safety (BVL)
suspended the registration of 8 neonicotinoid pesticide seed treatment
products used in oilseed rape and sweetcorn. A few weeks after honeybee
keepers in the southern state of Baden Wuerttemberg reported a wave of
honeybee deaths linked to one of the pesticides, clothianidin (1,2).
Professor Joe Cummins had warned specifically against this class of new
pesticides (3) (Requiem for the Honeybee, SiS 34), widely used in dressing
seeds and in sprays, and "highly toxic to insects including bees at very
low concentrations." His contribution to ISIS' Briefing in the European
Parliament in June 2007 (4) (Scientists and MEPs for a GM free Europe, SiS
35) drew attention to the danger of sub-lethal doses of neonicotinoids and
Bt biopesticides in GM [genetically modified] crops, which could act
synergistically with pathogenic fungi in causing colony collapse disorder
in the honeybee, and resulted in a question to the European Commission by
German MEP (Member of the European Parliament) Hiltrud Breyer (5)
(Emergency Motion on Protecting the Honeybee, SiS 35), shortly after she
had submitted an emergency motion to ban the neonicotinoids.

Unequivocal evidence of pesticide poisoning
-------------------------------------------
Walter Haefeker, president of the European Professional Beekeepers
Association, reporting to Chemical and Engineering News said (1),
"Beekeepers in the region started finding piles of dead bees at the
entrance of hives in early May [2008], right around the time corn seeding
takes place."

"It's a real bee emergency," Manfred Hederer, president of the German
Professional Beekeepers' Association told The Guardian (2), "50-60 per cent
of the bees have died on average and some beekeepers have lost all their
hives."

The incriminating evidence was so convincing that a press release from the
Julius Kuehn Institute (JKI), the German federal agricultural research
agency, stated: "It can unequivocally be concluded that a poisoning of the
bees is due to the rub-off of the pesticide ingredient clothianidin from
the corn seeds."

Tests on dead bees showed that 99 per cent had a build-up of clothianidin
(sold in Europe under the trade name Poncho) produced by Bayer CropScience,
approved for use in Germany in 2004, and with some restrictions in the US
in 2003.

The pesticide was applied to the seeds in advance of being planted or
sprayed while in the field. The company med an application error by the
seed company, which failed to use a substance that glues the pesticide to
the seed, resulting in the chemical getting into the air. Bayer spokesman
Dr Julian Little told the BBC Farming Today that misapplication is highly
unusual. traIt inspired that this year's [2008] corn seed in Baden
Wuerttemberg *was coated with a double dose to counteract a corn beetle
infestation (2). *Unusual circumstances yes, but the lethal effect of the
pesticides has been suspected for a long time.

Beekeepers had pointed the finger for a long time
-------------------------------------------------

More:
http://www.greenparty.ca/en/node/6126

regards,
Ernie Lucas Apiaries


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

I dont know about this product being sprayed on foilage, or cant comment on this product used as a soil drench, but as a seed treatment I would suggest little to no effect bees what so ever. Seed treatments are designed to protect seedlings, the chemical only can protect the seeding for as long as the chemical is effective. With our seed treatment in canola, is 10 days after emergance. I dont know what the effective control period would be on this seed treatment, but gather it wouldnt be effective at all during periods of bloom. We are talking 30-40 plus days from point of emergance to blooming period with most plants.


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## Constance (Sep 11, 2008)

*Clothianidin in Germany*

Hi everybody from Lake Constance in southern Germany,

just to keep you updated: 
The german administration (BVL) has re-allowed the use of all Clothianidin-containing spray pesticides with canola (but not yet corn). 

Neither the application of double-dose Poncho (clothiandin) nor the summer spray of Biscaya have stopped the expansion of the corn beetle.

France has stopped the application of Imidacloprid, a closely related neonicotinoide, back in 2003 after a similar honeybee disaster. Northern Italy faces similar problems as we in southwest Germany.

To my knowledge none of the european countries has banned all neonicotinoides yet. Furthermore, first reports reports on severe colony starvations caused by Methiocarp, Biscaya and other neurotoxic pesticides keep european beeks alarmed. 

Most of the european administrations including the german BVL do not apply valid testing of pesticides on their impact towards non-target insects prior to admission. In many cases they rely on stastically questionable results provided by the manufacturer itself.

Although I did not face complete colony losses, most of them have been delayed in development for several weeks. This caused a severe reduction in the spring crop and caused troubles with queen rearing.

Keep an eye on your bees and the second on the pesticides! Many collapses are not due to viruses or the varroa mite!

Mik


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

Thanks for the input Constance. Nothing like hearing it from people in the area. Please keep up updated and we will continue to spread the word here. Best of luck to you and hope your critters do well.


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