# How to build cheap top bars.



## ruthiesbees

I don't build my own, but the ones I ordered had the thin strip of wood in the middle that was stapled in. Seems pretty solid to me, but mine are only 19" long and depending on how deep your drum, you may want to consider bamboo sticks to help add some strength to the comb. It was just mentioned some time in a December post in this forum, so you should be able to find it pretty easily.


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## stan.vick

Go to lowe's buy the 1x2x8' which are actually 3/4 x 1 1/2, cut them to length in your case maybe 24 inches could work that way you could get four out of the 96 inch piece, then using a table saw shave 1/8" off leaving you the required 1 3/8 top bar. Then rip a slot down the middle that is about 1/8" deep, then cut a piece of 3/4" the length of the spline you want, then experiment with cutting the spline until you get a width that will fit in the slot, you may or may not have to glue it. Sounds complicated but when you get the hang of it, you can make them pretty fast. That size bar with honey will be rather heavy, so handle with care.


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## Broglea

Or take the easy route and have this guy make them for you.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/141157722237?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649


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## chr157y

A bigger concern is the width of your hive. 23" is BIG! My wooden Kenyan top bar hive is 17" wide with 19" bars. It's about 10-11" deep. If I had to do it all over again, I'd make it much smaller. The bigger the bars and deeper the hive, the large the combs. You *WILL* have comb collapse. The bars are way too big. Many people use between 15"-17" bars.


If you are going to stick with it, which I suggest you don't, buy 2 inch long boards. Anything thinner, and your super wide bars will bow. Cut in 1 3/8" strips, then run your pieces down your saw so you get about a 3/4 cm groove down the middle. Use wood glue to glue popsicle sticks down the entire width of the groove.


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## Colleen O.

Mine are 17.5" long and have a beveled wedge cut onto them. They were not easy to make, but I have seen people do similar by adding a triangle shaped molding onto them. Some people add dowels perpendicular to the bars to prevent collapse, you might try that.


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## Beethinking

I've made thousands of them myself with a table saw. If I was still making them myself in the garage, I'd probably just cut them to 1 3/8" wide and then put a kerf in them along with a popsicle stick, etc. Today my mill uses a moulder and a shaper to cut thousands at once. Here's a picture of 4,284 of them! 









I'm with chr157y on the length issue. At 25", you are going to have MAJOR issues manipulating them, and you'll definitely have combs collapse. Mine are 17.5" and I find this is a good compromise. The longer they get, generally the shorter you need the height of the box/hive. Otherwise they are really hard to manage. 

Best,


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## tomcheetoh

To compensate for the length I was going to put a board in the bottom do it is a few inches shallower. So the combs would be a little more rectangular. Think this is a good idea?


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## Colino

tomcheetoh said:


> Hello all,
> I have just built a top bar hive body out of a plastic drum, reclaimed lumber and a table top. Now I need to make top bars. I am waiting on a book I ordered on how to build hives, but I was wondering any of you fine people had any experience making your own top bars? My hive body is 23" wide, so my bars will probably be 25" long. Any tips on how to cheaply made good top bars? Thanks in advance. I have a ton of fun building this first hive, I might want to do it again.


Hello Tom:
It's easy to make the top bars with the built in wedge on a table saw. With the long length of your bars it might be best, a one piece is stronger. 
-Rip a piece of stock to 1-3/8 by 1-1/4 what ever length you need.( you can use any length and cut them to size after forming the wedges so you don't have to keep resetting the saw.)
-Set saw blade at 35 degree angle.
-Set blade height at 1/2" high and 1" from fence.
-With 1-3/8 side up make a pass to make the first side of the wedge, turn your wood and do another pass
to make the other side of the wedge.
-Now set saw blade back to 90 degrees, height of blade 1/2" and fence 7/8" from inside of blade.
-Run board through with 1-1/4" side up and the uncut 1-3/8 side against fence. This removes the waste from around the wedge.
-Repeat on other side.
You should now have a wedge running the full length of the topbar. you will need to remove some of the wedge on each end to fit flat on your hive, so what I do is while I have the blade set for the last cuts I run the top bar through perpendicular to fence, wedge down and run her back and forth until I've removed 1" of wedge on each end. If all goes well they should look like my photos. I made them tonight in all of 15 minutes and sorry about the photo quality I used my cell phone camera and they all weren't quite finished yet. If I get time in the next day or so I'll put together a video showing how I do them.
Colino


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## chr157y

Tom, how deep is the barrel? I put hardware cloth along the bottom of my old hive that was also very deep. It worked well. The bees could get through, but it stopped them from building. It would be worth doing research into kenyan top bars hive (sloaped sides) vs. regular horizontal top bar hives (straight sides). Without angled edges, bees tend to attach the comb to the side. Also, there's something about the angle of the edges making the comb stronger.


I don't want to crush all of your plans, but it's better to get it right the first time. You don't want to have a horrible summer. I speak from experience. I had to rebuild my hive in August.


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## tomcheetoh

It is about 11" deep. That's why I was considering putting a bottom board in it. I was going to make it out of wood or maybe mesh screen and cut the bottom out for a screened bottom. I built this hive because there are several people who have used this build successfully. They all say the comb is big and heavy, but no one has said anything about comb collapse. I am not putting all my eggs in one basket though. I am going to build a warre hive, to more normal dimensions. I am only going to make 20 bars for this barrel hive, and see how it goes before I make more this size.


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## Snookie

Cacklewack said:


> I've made thousands of them myself with a table saw. If I was still making them myself in the garage, I'd probably just cut them to 1 3/8" wide and then put a kerf in them along with a popsicle stick, etc.
> 
> Best,


 Popsicle sticks is the route I'm taking but man I've just about eaten all the Popsicles I can stand:}
I got to stop building hives or I'll never be able to eat another Popsicle lol


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## chr157y

Snookie said:


> I got to stop building hives or I'll never be able to eat another Popsicle lol


Go to Michael's or A.C. Moore with a coupon. They call popsicle sticks "craft sticks," but they're the exact same thing. You can get a box of 1000 for pretty cheap.


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## chr157y

tomcheetoh said:


> They all say the comb is big and heavy, but no one has said anything about comb collapse.


Good to know! Bee very careful with the fresh comb.


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## tomcheetoh

Here is hoping. I am brand new to this, so I fully expect everything to go wrong. But I am trying to prepare as best I can.


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## odfrank

I made these Kelley style on my table saw out of any waste wood. Two cuts with the dado and two cuts with the blade.


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## Colino

odfrank said:


> I made these Kelley style on my table saw out of any waste wood. Two cuts with the dado and two cuts with the blade.
> I never thought of using the dado blade, but I think it's easier just to make 4 passes on the table saw that way you don't have to switch blades.
> Colino


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## odfrank

Colino said:


> I never thought of using the dado blade said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have two table saws. Dado stays on one until I need the shaper blade.
Click to expand...


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## Colino

odfrank said:


> Colino said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have two table saws. Dado stays on one until I need the shaper blade.
> 
> 
> 
> That's a great idea, I'm trying to get another table saw but the problem is to find one with an arbor long enough to take the dado blade. I have a Skil right now and it's arbor is pretty well maxed out with my dado set at 3/4" so I try not to use it too much. I also have a wobble blade that I can't even use because it won't fit on the arbor. When you do your bars which cut do you do first, the dado or the angle?
Click to expand...


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## odfrank

Colino said:


> odfrank said:
> 
> 
> 
> When you do your bars which cut do you do first, the dado or the angle?
> 
> 
> 
> I did the dados first, but for stability of the stock on the last two cuts maybe doing the angles first might be better. I clamped a runner the correct distance from the fence to hold the stock upright. Might be better done on a router table, which I don't have. And I could not find those blades for my molding head.
Click to expand...


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## shannonswyatt

Nice job on the kelley style wedge. I have just been making the whole bottom wedged, but I think I try that method next month when I need to make more bars.


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## Top Bar

I want to make some like the kind you buy from Backyardhive.com. 









Any tips?


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## odfrank

Top Bar said:


> I want to make some like the kind you buy from Backyardhive.com. Any tips?


Those look easier than the Kelley style. Four cuts versus six. But I doubt the attachment is as strong. 

Does anyone have pictures comparing the comb attachment to different styles of cuts? That would steer us to the best style to use.


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## tomcheetoh

Yes, I have been doing some more reading and have read everything from just putting a line of melted wax on the bars to hanging a couple inches of wax foundation to using the wood wedge bars. And pics would be greatly appreciated.


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## shannonswyatt

I make mine very similar to the backyard hives stlye, but I don't make the wedge as deep anymore. At first I made them at 45 degrees, but then I got to thinking about how far that is into the hive, and I really noticed how heavy they were when I put them in a swarm box. Since then I made them shallower, around 30 degrees, I just eyeball it to see how it looks. I've read someplace that the angle of the comb is 13 degrees downward. I was thinking that maybe that would be a good way to go after they start pulling straight, since it would have a lot of attachment at the bar. The next bunch I make I'm going to make a few like that.

Interestingly when the bees start pulling comb they always start at the lowest point and it comes down perfectly straight with the guide, but if the previous comb is a bit wonky they mirror it, so no matter what you use for a comb guide you have watch your new comb, or swap empties in between straight comb.

As far as tips, I make mine usually from 2x8's if I'm in a hurry, or if I'm bored I'll make some from 2x4. When I'm making them from 2x8s I cut the length of the bar (19 inches for me) on a chop saw, then I do a cut at 45 degrees that will be the part of the end. Then I end cut with a home made tenon jig the end. That completes the tang on the end of the bars. I then rip them to 1 and a quarter inches. The last part is the wedge. What I do is put the blade at approximately 30 degrees or so and then I setup the cut using a featherboard. Run it through, flip it, run it through and it is done. This method does produce a ton of scrap wedges that go into a burn pile. When I'm making bars from 2x4s I chop the 2x4 to length and then I rip it to a little over an inch, giving me three pieces per 19 inch section. Then I rip the other side to 1 1/4 inches. Cut the angled relief cut and then do the tenon cut. Last thing is the wedge. With this method you end up with less waste, but a lot more cuts. So making them from 1x8s is a bunch faster for me. 

I made a few hundred last year with a circular saw and some home made jigs. DO NOT ATTEMPT!!! I got horrible tennis elbow from it. Knowing what I know now, I would say that if you don't have access to a table saw just buy them, or watch craigslist. I got a great deal on a decent job site saw. I was warned to get a table saw last year but didn't listen.


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## Colino

tomcheetoh said:


> Hello all,
> I have just built a top bar hive body out of a plastic drum, reclaimed lumber and a table top. Now I need to make top bars. I am waiting on a book I ordered on how to build hives, but I was wondering any of you fine people had any experience making your own top bars? My hive body is 23" wide, so my bars will probably be 25" long. Any tips on how to cheaply made good top bars? Thanks in advance. I have a ton of fun building this first hive, I might want to do it again.


I pasted this in another thread. These top bars are already beefed up enough for barrel hives. By tweeking you can make them stronger or lighter. The basic method is the same for cutting them out.
http://youtu.be/TTIV1OzcGxg


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## shannonswyatt

Colino said:


> I pasted this in another thread. These top bars are already beefed up enough for barrel hives. By tweeking you can make them stronger or lighter. The basic method is the same for cutting them out.
> http://youtu.be/TTIV1OzcGxg


I'm not a big fan of the pushing the stock sideways against the blade for a dado effect (speed tenon). A saw blade isn't designed to be used that way, and I need my fingers for work, but to each there own. If I were going to go that route I would replace the rip blade with a combination or crosscut blade. But if it works for you go for it.

You may also want to go with a thinner top bar. They don't need to be an inch thick. I crush fewer bees with thinner bars, and they are still plenty strong.


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## Colino

shannonswyatt said:


> I'm not a big fan of the pushing the stock sideways against the blade for a dado effect (speed tenon). A saw blade isn't designed to be used that way, and I need my fingers for work, but to each there own. If I were going to go that route I would replace the rip blade with a combination or crosscut blade. But if it works for you go for it.
> 
> You may also want to go with a thinner top bar. They don't need to be an inch thick. I crush fewer bees with thinner bars, and they are still plenty strong.


The top bars in the video were laid out to accommodate the long width of a barrel hive, by tweaking the settings you can make them any thickness you want. Also I have no idea why there are so many people who want to stick their fingers in the saw blades on this forum.


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## shannonswyatt

Like mom always said "It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye!"

I've seen a few mangled hands. I'm interested in keeping my fingers. 

Hey, at least you left the riving knife in place.


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## Colino

shannonswyatt said:


> Like mom always said "It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye!"
> 
> I've seen a few mangled hands. I'm interested in keeping my fingers.
> 
> Hey, at least you left the riving knife in place.


It's just that I worked all my career with machines that could cut hands off. I have seen a hand stuck in a metal break and bent to 90 degrees, and a hand smashed under a rail but these were always by novices or people not accustomed to powerful machinery. If a person is afraid of the equipment they are usually the ones who get hurt. The trick is to respect the machine and always know where your hands are in relation to moving parts.


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## shannonswyatt

My experience has been that it is the folks most comfortable are the ones who get hurt. The more you use anything the greater the odds of getting hurt by it.


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## Rader Sidetrack

> The more you use anything the greater the odds of getting hurt by it.

The crash statistics regarding "new" automobile drivers vs "seasoned" drivers certainly do not support that view!


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## shannonswyatt

True! But that has a lot more to do with age. Rarely will you find a boy under 25 make a good decision. That's also why young woman pay less for insurance then men, yet arguably they usually have less relevant experience than young men based on other vehicles they may have driven (go-carts, ATVs, motorcycles, etc).

The more miles you drive the greater the odds of having an accident. The longer you play with fire...


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## Colino

shannonswyatt said:


> My experience has been that it is the folks most comfortable are the ones who get hurt. The more you use anything the greater the odds of getting hurt by it.


Yes especially at repeated tasks, if you're making 100 top bars you could eventually lose focus and run a hand through the saw.


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## Duncan151

Last summer I made 300 top bars, and 350 comb guides. I was using my buddies really, really nice table saw instead of my old work site table saw. Using my buddies table saw was so sweet it was almost a sexual experience of smoothness!!!!  I had to keep telling myself to focus on not loosing a finger or two!!!! I still have all my fingers!


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## Colino

Duncan151 said:


> Last summer I made 300 top bars, and 350 comb guides. I was using my buddies really, really nice table saw instead of my old work site table saw. Using my buddies table saw was so sweet it was almost a sexual experience of smoothness!!!!  I had to keep telling myself to focus on not loosing a finger or two!!!! I still have all my fingers!


Keeping all your fingers is always a plus!


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## Michael Bush

I think I've done them all. Most of them work. I've done just bars with no guide at all and fed them between the drawn brood comb with just as good of luck. Or if there is a good straight comb to start, you can do all bars with no guides as long as you keep a close watch. "Nothing" works just as well as the "bead of wax" method so I don't see any point in the "beed of wax" method at all. Niether one of those ("nothing" or "bead of wax") is very realiable UNLESS you have some drawn comb to work with. A small beveled piece of wood works ok. More bevel works better. I think the bevel is the strongest attachment as far as the comb not breaking off. A strip of wood works ok. Probably anything over 3/4" is too much. Probably anything under 1/4" is too little. I've waxed them by dipping in hot wax and by rubbing wax on, but without wax they make better attachments. The dipped wax sometimes fell off on a hot day even before they built comb on it and sometimes it came loose from the wood when they had comb on it. The problem is it's not attached well enough. Maybe if you heated the wood first it would suck the wax up into it, but I don't see any point in the wax. When I first did the bevel, I started a the angle of the cell thinking that was the reason they followed it, but experinmentation showed that the steeper the angle the better they followed it. I make mine 45% (the point of the bevel is a 90%, the slope to that point is 45 degrees on each side). I have one Goldstar hive that Christy gave me. I put bees in it about five years ago and have seldom had time to mess with them since (out of the country and then speaking). I've been clear through it three times in that five years. The bees followed the guides VERY well and only one comb was spanning two bars. Those bevels are steeper than 45 degrees. I never measured them, so I can't say what they are for sure.


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## Kilted Beekeeper

Last season was my first, so take my input for what it is worth. I used 1 inch thick x 2 inch Furring strips they measure 1.5 inches wide. I cut them to length, and since I did not have access to a table saw, I just used wood glue to attach 1/4 inch dowel material down the center of each. I had only 1 comb drawn a little crooked out of 20. I made all my bars the same width and did not have any problems with comb off center. 

KB


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## Snookie

Who's using Popsicle(Craft Sticks) as a guide for their top bars?


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## shannonswyatt

I have some bars that a basically the same as craft sticks, maybe just a little bit thicker by not much. They work fine. I had a need last year for a few hundred and I wanted to see how they were and if they would work in my boxes. They were fine, but the Scotch in me wouldn't let me spend the $600 it would have cost to purchase what I needed. So I just made them myself. I made that batch with a circular saw and some jigs. I paid for them many times over in pain, I got really bad tennis elbow in both elbows. After that I bought a table saw from Craigslist.


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## Colino

Snookie said:


> Who's using Popsicle(Craft Sticks) as a guide for their top bars?


Hello Snookie:
I use them in both my top bar hives and my foundation less lang frames. I've also had good success with Out Of a blue sky's method of a piece of string stretched out and covered with bees wax. But now that I've discovered how to make wedge bars easily and fast on my table saw I'm going that route in the future with my top bar hives.


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## shannonswyatt

Once you go wedge you never go back!


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## Snookie

Colino said:


> Hello Snookie:
> I use them in both my top bar hives and my foundation less lang frames. I've also had good success with Out Of a blue sky's method of a piece of string stretched out and covered with bees wax. But now that I've discovered how to make wedge bars easily and fast on my table saw I'm going that route in the future with my top bar hives.


Cool Great to know:}
Especially since I have cut 54 of them with the center grove for my two new soon to bee barrel TBH's today!

Ok, now where did I put the Elmer's Glue lol


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## Colino

Snookie said:


> Cool Great to know:}
> Especially since I have cut 54 of them with the center grove for my two new soon to bee barrel TBH's today!
> 
> Ok, now where did I put the Elmer's Glue lol


Snookie did you see this video I did on wedge shaped top bars. When I did it I had your barrel hive in mind, so I laid them out sturdier than normal. You would just have to make them to the length of your barrel hive.
Colino

http://youtu.be/TTIV1OzcGxg


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## Snookie

Colino said:


> Snookie did you see this video I did on wedge shaped top bars. When I did it I had your barrel hive in mind, so I laid them out sturdier than normal. You would just have to make them to the length of your barrel hive.
> Colino
> 
> http://youtu.be/TTIV1OzcGxg


Yes Sir I did..Your a gentleman and a scholar however; I was at the mercy of a friend who kindly cut my top bars so...I had to go with the flow:}
Again thanks
It's going to have to be Popsicle Sticks for the guide:}


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## Colino

Snookie said:


> Yes Sir I did..Your a gentleman and a scholar however; I was at the mercy of a friend who kindly cut my top bars so...I had to go with the flow:}
> Again thanks
> It's going to have to be Popsicle Sticks for the guide:}


You're going to have to start eating Popsicles now to get enough sticks before spring.


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## Snookie

Colino said:


> You're going to have to start eating Popsicles now to get enough sticks before spring.


10-69 on dat lol

Got the grandkids coming over today so guess what's for Desert? :}


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## longtom

Colino said:


> Hello Tom:
> It's easy to make the top bars with the built in wedge on a table saw. With the long length of your bars it might be best, a one piece is stronger.
> -Rip a piece of stock to 1-3/8 by 1-1/4 what ever length you need.( you can use any length and cut them to size after forming the wedges so you don't have to keep resetting the saw.)
> -Set saw blade at 35 degree angle.
> -Set blade height at 1/2" high and 1" from fence.
> -With 1-3/8 side up make a pass to make the first side of the wedge, turn your wood and do another pass
> to make the other side of the wedge.
> -Now set saw blade back to 90 degrees, height of blade 1/2" and fence 7/8" from inside of blade.
> -Run board through with 1-1/4" side up and the uncut 1-3/8 side against fence. This removes the waste from around the wedge.
> -Repeat on other side.
> You should now have a wedge running the full length of the topbar. you will need to remove some of the wedge on each end to fit flat on your hive, so what I do is while I have the blade set for the last cuts I run the top bar through perpendicular to fence, wedge down and run her back and forth until I've removed 1" of wedge on each end. If all goes well they should look like my photos. I made them tonight in all of 15 minutes and sorry about the photo quality I used my cell phone camera and they all weren't quite finished yet. If I get time in the next day or so I'll put together a video showing how I do them.
> Colino
> View attachment 8807
> 
> View attachment 8808




I made 36 of these on Sat. from 2x4 lumber (cut down to 1 1/4" x 1 1/2"), it took me about 2 hours, there are a lot of cuts but the results are worth it and the strength is much better then 3/4 stock. Out of 1 - 2"x4"x8' you get 10 bars (19") plus 10 - 1/4" spacers. If you want 1 3/8" bars you won't need the spacers. I used select 2x4 to limit the knots and made the hanger arm 3/4" think. Thanks for the detailed cutting instructions, It made it very do-able. The one thing I did different was I made the cut for my hanger (3/4") first, across the end of the 2x4 (1 1/2" deep) before cutting to width and the wedge. It made it easier to remove the wedge from the hanger arm at the end, no back and forth, just one simple cut at the 1 1/2" mark.


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## Snookie

Well, I spent most of my MLK day morning trying to finish my Barrel Top Bar Hive

Glued a lot of popsicle sticks lol

Check it out:} Now warm enough to take my motorcycle out for a spin while the glue dries...I like dat me


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## stdavis

Here's my first attempt at milling top bars: https://www.evernote.com/shard/s23/...fbe1b5987dce/2c187d96e44e9a3e6f9980b7cdb13659

I think that they came out great. I tried to make them like Christy Hemenway's.


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## Colino

longtom said:


> I made 36 of these on Sat. from 2x4 lumber (cut down to 1 1/4" x 1 1/2"), it took me about 2 hours, there are a lot of cuts but the results are worth it and the strength is much better then 3/4 stock. Out of 1 - 2"x4"x8' you get 10 bars (19") plus 10 - 1/4" spacers. If you want 1 3/8" bars you won't need the spacers. I used select 2x4 to limit the knots and made the hanger arm 3/4" think. Thanks for the detailed cutting instructions, It made it very do-able. The one thing I did different was I made the cut for my hanger (3/4") first, across the end of the 2x4 (1 1/2" deep) before cutting to width and the wedge. It made it easier to remove the wedge from the hanger arm at the end, no back and forth, just one simple cut at the 1 1/2" mark.


Hello LongTom:
When you cut the wedges did you leave your stock 8 ft. long or cut then to length first? I usually leave my stock full length when cutting the wedges then cut them to length on my miter saw to save cuts.
Thanks for your vote of confidence in my methods.
Colino


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## Top Bar

stdavis said:


> Here's my first attempt at milling top bars: https://www.evernote.com/shard/s23/...fbe1b5987dce/2c187d96e44e9a3e6f9980b7cdb13659
> 
> I think that they came out great. I tried to make them like Christy Hemenway's.


What size lumber did you start with on these? These are exactly like the ones I want to make! Thanks!


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## stdavis

These prototypes where made from 2 by 2's. I plan to make the rest from 2 by 6's or 2 x 8's so that I can cut off the ends all at the same time and then rip them to 1 1/4". Lot's of fun!


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## Top Bar

Thanks! I am going to try to copy this! I appreciate the pointers.


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## longtom

I cut mine to length so they would be more manageable and I wanted to make my end cuts first just like "stdavis" did in his pictures.


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## jennSAL

I am a total novice with a table saw- luckily I can use the wood shop on the Army base. Might even use some tool other than the table saw there some day! I did two passes a mm or so apart in the middle to get the kerf wide enough on 2" or 4" ripped into 2" x 1" furring strips, and then I glued paint stirrers into the grooves. TIred of asking for a few at a time at the box hardware stores, I asked around and ACE kindly sold me enough for the rest of the top bars for 10c/. I have to go back to the wood shop to clean up the wiggly ripped edges of the top bars which I cut with my handheld jig saw now I see what wide gaps these leave. So if I leave my top bars 1&3/4" wide the bees will likely build burr comb between them?


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## Rader Sidetrack

Hmm, if you ripped your bars from larger lumber, 2x4s are actually 1.5"x3.5", and you could just slab off pieces to get 1.5" wide bars. Or an easy way to get 1.5" wide bars is to use 1x2s which are actually 0.75"x1.5".

If your bars are actually 1.75" wide there is a good likelihood that the bees may build comb that attaches to multiple bars.


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## stdavis

I plan on milling all of mine at 1 1/4" and then using 1/4" spacers in the honey comb. Any disadvantages to this solution?


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## shannonswyatt

1 1/4 is fine, and I keep some different size spacers in case i need them. One hive started to pull a bit of last year and I was able to puy a wedge spacer to get it straight again.


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## Michael Bush

>I plan on milling all of mine at 1 1/4" and then using 1/4" spacers in the honey comb. Any disadvantages to this solution? 

Not really, just more cuts than making them half and half, but you get more versitility.


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## Ennui

shannonswyatt said:


> True! But that has a lot more to do with age. Rarely will you find a boy under 25 make a good decision. That's also why young woman pay less for insurance then men...


This was at one time true, but for a good decade now women have passed men as both the more aggressive driver and more prone to be in traffic accidents. If your insurance company is still trying to charge a the young male driver more then I'd suggest checking out different companies. Those demographics are 20 years old.

More importantly though, I like the fairly deep wedge on the backyard hive top bars. As a poor woodworker with little equipment, I've tried several types and the deep works the best for me. I get straight comb I haven't had a meltdown with them yet.


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## jadebees

I had problems with KTB hives that were 17" topbars. Breakage, collapses, dificulty in preventing too much burr comb. Which make the former issues. 
I am making a top bar box to the width of a Warre' box, just 12 7/16 long bars. The bars are generally removable and more important comb is not as breakable. 
The large top bar hives can be a become a big fine mess, long term. I adopted Warre' hives, and find the Warre' size easier to cope with as a topbar.. I don't use the large long boxes anymore.


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## shannonswyatt

I've had no issues with burr comb. The only collapses I've had were from the stupid guy holding the bar! Of course I'm not in AZ, so I know it is a lot hotter there. 

When you say burr comb are you talking about side attachments?


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