# How to get hives out of muddy beeyards.



## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Some sort of vehicle on tracks, Bobcats come to mind. They are pricey but maybe you can rent one. I suppose when it will be time to go and if it is rainy everybody will have rented whatever is available.

Jean-Marc


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## joens (Apr 24, 2003)

Jean-Marc is right in recommending something with tracks. Holt Caterpillar Rental http://www.catrentalstore.com/holt/locations should have a skid steer with tracks you can rent they have a lot of locations around Sacramento


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## Charlestonbee (Mar 26, 2015)

I've never moved beehives like that commercially but have experience with moving tracked machines in mud. You have to build walking boards. Depending on the size of the tracks will depend on how big you build the walking boards. You lash timbers together and put them in front of you. You walk on them and pull the ones from behind and put them in front. You keep doing this procedure. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9hP8V7SwNFA That's a link to a video that shows what I'm talking about


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

A neighbor used walkingboards with his forklift. They were 3/4 in plywood boards. He had to drive out 50 yards. It could not have been fun and must have taken what would seem like a very long time. With all the rain we get here, I place hives very close to where the gravel ends or better yet where the pavement ends.

Jean-Marc


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

Unless you have them on tar or rocks you are plain screwed considering the forecast.. wheelbarrels on plywood or chains pulling pallets. Repeat of 06 os here
Good luck!!!!


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

One Feb we took them into slimy orchards in a 1/4 ton pickup with wide tires. The hives were on bottom boards back then and was all hand loading anyways. The guy next to us was using a tracked bobcat for his pallets. So that looks like your best bet. Pat H showed me a 4 wheeler with forks he was designing some years back to move single pallets in that type situation. Dont know what came of it.

We are buried in snow here in the mountains 18 inches here in 2 days.All that looks like its going to go down the Sac River this weekend as heavy rain is predicted even at high elevations. I would be VERY concerned about any yards close to the river.


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## whiskers (Aug 28, 2011)

I've seen video of Christmas trees being moved and loaded into trucks as sling loads with a helicopter. Sounds ridiculous but it must pay for them. You would have to load a lot to make it worthwhile I think, but on the other hand there aren't any Christmas trees to load at this time of year so maybe the guy with the helicopter is offering discounts.
Bill


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## sweetas (Apr 16, 2012)

How many hives do ou need to move?


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

Looking at the long range forecast, the last week in January/first week in February, there might be a big enough break for stuff to dry out enough. It's hard to say at this point though, as last week we weren't supposed to get much rain but the high pressure systems that were diverting the moisture have moved and now we have the atmospheric river conditions....


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Right. Watch the weather and hope for the breaks we need.

" Repeat of 06 os here"
God I hope not.


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

I don't remember the year, maybe '06, we placed hives in an orchard near LoggerMike and flooding began along one side of the orchard.
We took 3- 2x4s and 6 guys, slid the 2x4s through the pallets and carried the hives to higher ground like pallbearers.


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Oh my. There must have been about as much joy as a funural doing that task. That certainly describes beekeeping. You gotta do what you gotta do, whn you gotta do it.

Jean-Marc


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

06 was muddy orchards, stuck trucks, bees only flying between breaks in the rain during pollination, starved hives,etc. Had a foot of snow on Easter here in the mountains. We didn't get all our hives out till the end of April. Easy money, Right Harry?


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

But the shad run on the American was epic that year....


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## MTN-Bees (Jan 27, 2014)

If you have a loader that does not have a mast- a friend has a piece of I beam that can be pinned across the pallet forks that can bee used to push the loader. That is if you don't have a load on it. Tire chains also help. The CTLs seem to do well in the mud.


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## RAK (May 2, 2010)

Move them out when we get that good weather end of Jan.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

You could move them as they do in New Zealand...helicopters


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Here ya go. Provided the hives are prepared properly and you have a crew at the pickup and drop zone this can be fairly efficient.

Funny story about this, a beekeeper friend of mine has formed a good relationship with his chopper guy. One day he was having a barbeque in the back yard, the chopper happened to fly overhead and noticed, so dropped in to join the barby.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Nice OT


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Here in the mountains, I have moved hives many times at night after the mud froze. Just like cement. I know it hardly ever gets that cold down in the Valley, but its cold this morning. 4 below zero here at 3400 feet and mid 20s in the Chico area. Probably not that cold where you are. I would go with RAKs advice and wait for that warm spell we all know is coming.

What would a helicopter cost? 2 or 3 grand per hour?


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

loggermike said:


> What would a helicopter cost? 2 or 3 grand per hour?


I hope I'm not too outdated, but last I heard it was more in the $500.00 range for slinging Christmas trees or shake bolts.
Also, price can vary based upon your longstanding relationship with the aviation company or pilot.
To make it economically feasible you would need a bunch of slings so that the pallets were ready to go when the chopper arrived.
Fiddling around attaching slings while the helicopter is waiting overhead would bankrupt you.
Then you would need someone at the truck and someone in the field VERY GOOD at setting slings and / or guiding the pallet into place.
It's not the same as trees or a rick of bolts that you can just drop. That will slow things down.
The pilot releases the sling.

Sounds like something fun to experiment with sometime with,,,,,um,,,,someone _elses_ hives. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lx0AUrx1pbo


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Here is a commercial helicopter lift service moving beehives in New Zealand that uses _forks_ at the end of the lift cable - instead of slings:
http://www.precisionhelicopters.com/beehive-transportation.php



> PHL has custom built, specialised lifting equipment for transporting hives. This equipment ensures the bees and their hives are gently handled.
> 
> We use a certified set of aluminium pallet forks for hive transportation work. These pallet forks are lightweight but strong, therefore eliminating the use of lifting strops.
> 
> ...


There are some photos at that page, and a YouTube 'video', but from what I see, it is just a series of stills linked together - more like a _slide show_.


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## RAK (May 2, 2010)

Locking diferential would help.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Found a better done video here it is. This is not the only setup used but as per others efficient turn around and use of the choppers time is primo importance. Flick through to 1.00 to get to the action.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTbxWRyhzCM

Because of our lanscape the use of choppers and light planes has been common in NZ agriculture and practise has produced some fine pilots, here is a video of live deer recovery showing a better view of the kind of lanscapes that helicopters make available for beekeeping.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKWvsS-z9PU


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## RAK (May 2, 2010)

You can always make some tire claws out of C chanel and shortened straps.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YrVRCiZw1XM


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Oldtimer said:


> Because of our lanscape the use of choppers and light planes has been common in NZ agriculture


When we were there last February/March, I was amazed at some of the apiary locations we saw. For three days, Fiona drove us all over the back roads. The scenery was awesome, and there were apiaries everywhere. 

Much of the Manuka is out in the areas that aren't accessible by trucks. Imagine trying to move pallets of bees in and out of locations like this. 












One thing I found interesting. Bee hives were painted according to the owner's color scheme. As we traveled the countryside, it was obvious when we came to a different beekeeper's territory. These pallets were down in a ravine that had no access. I was told they were owned by Manuka Health. One of the big corporate Manuka honey buyers who decided to get into bees.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

loggermike said:


> .
> 
> What would a helicopter cost? 2 or 3 grand per hour?


$1000 and up, depends on how much work, that's for a light duty bell 206 or a 500.


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## 220 (Dec 28, 2016)

loggermike said:


> Here in the mountains, I have moved hives many times at night after the mud froze. Just like cement. I know it hardly ever gets that cold down in the Valley, but its cold this morning. 4 below zero here at 3400 feet and mid 20s in the Chico area.


Might work, I'm in Aus and we don't get the cold temps you do, 20 is about it for us. Plenty of muddy tracks around the farm, I have found I have about 2 hours after sunrise where I can usually drive around in 2wd while the surface mud is still frozen after that it is hard going even in 4wd.


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

When using the helicopters, I suppose the guys get the colonies close to the final destination to reduce chopper time? Typically how far would they get moved.I cannot see it more than 5 miles. How much does that cost per colony approximatively? I suppose you want to get up early to move those hives. In all likelyhood they do not move too many hives after the bees start flying, so this can be done for 2-3 hours a day maximum.

Jean-Marc


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Thats pretty neat stuff. Reminds me of helicopter logging, which is fun to watch.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

jean-marc said:


> When using the helicopters, I suppose the guys get the colonies close to the final destination to reduce chopper time? Typically how far would they get moved.I cannot see it more than 5 miles. How much does that cost per colony approximatively? I suppose you want to get up early to move those hives. In all likelyhood they do not move too many hives after the bees start flying, so this can be done for 2-3 hours a day maximum.
> 
> Jean-Marc


Yes the bees are trucked as close as possible and then set up ready. And yes early morning start but the chopper needs good visibility so no move till after good daylight, some bees are lost. A typical figure for chopppering that gets bandied around here is NZ$100.00 a hive, that's US$70.00 per hive. This is affordable because the rewards of getting bees into these bush sites can be well over NZ$1000.00 per hive. But everything is designed around keeping chopper time and costs to the minimum, there are also chopper pilots who are very experienced at hive moving and know exactly how and what to do.


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## happybees (Oct 30, 2007)

Thank you for all your suggestions. Helicopter probably is the easiest and cleanest. 
I liked the idea of using "C" channel on the wheels, we used 2x4 with straps in the past. I spoke to a beekeeper friend and he is making a 2 wheel trailer for a Quad. The trailer will be able to take one pallet at a time. Also, we will be using plywood or boards as pavement where the ground will be soft. In some areas the mud is very stick and I am thinking of sparing the tires with oil to repel the water/mud.


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## MTN-Bees (Jan 27, 2014)

After this storm we might need pontoon boats or barges.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

I have a 12000 lbs winch that has gotten me unstuck enough times to pay for itself easy.
I like RAKS link to the claw. Think Ill make some of those. 
Good luck happybees in getting things moved.


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Oldtimer said:


> Yes the bees are trucked as close as possible and then set up ready. And yes early morning start but the chopper needs good visibility so no move till after good daylight, some bees are lost. A typical figure for chopppering that gets bandied around here is NZ$100.00 a hive, that's US$70.00 per hive. This is affordable because the rewards of getting bees into these bush sites can be well over NZ$1000.00 per hive. But everything is designed around keeping chopper time and costs to the minimum, there are also chopper pilots who are very experienced at hive moving and know exactly how and what to do.


The whole process is impressive. Are all the sites taken? Revenues seem astronomical. I checked the NZ site, hive prices were very high same with nucs. Still a gold rush mentality over there?

Jean-Marc


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Yes still a gold rush but honey prices took a dip this season could be the beginning of the end. The other problem is beekeepers cutting each others throats by trying to outbid each other to pay landowners site rent, some landowners wouldn't consider having bees on their place for less than a yearly $20,000 a site. Talking to one beekeeper who has withdrawn all his hives from manuka country, the expenses involved and the risks has made him decide to cut and run, go back to his roots and just make the cheaper honey types but not mess with site rents, competing beekeepers, etc.
The beekeeping scene here is not as friendly as it used to be when nobody was making any money.


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

At $20 000 k for a site, how many colonies would that be? If that is something like 12 pallets this would be outrageous. You would need very deep pockets to operate. For sure you would need a crop of sorts. 

Human nature and greed taking over, jealousy and extreme competition. What a great marketing ploy though. I tried manuka honey once and did not care for it at all. I would not buy it even if it was priced at regular honey prices. Glad though that somebody is earning some money in the business.

Jean-Marc


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Could be any number of hives, just depends who's bidding and what deal is struck, different every time. There are new players gone broke though, 1st season doesn't pan out for them, big expenses, and they are gone.



jean-marc said:


> I tried manuka honey once and did not care for it at all.


Ha Ha that's the kicker. Back when I started in bees manuka was regarded as a second rate honey because of the taste. It was cheap, and it's also difficult to extract, people tried to get their bees away from it if possible, oh how the fads change!
As a young guy, a teenager in fact I spent 2 years working for a guy who ran his hives pretty much in pure manuka, It was hard work for little money. The guy wanted to retire and offered me the business at a pretty knock down price, but opening the books with an accountant showed just paying back the money I would have to borrow would be near impossible based on returns the business was making. In hindsight, should have taken it, once manuka went ballistic those struggling manuka country beekeepers became millionaires almost overnight.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Just to show chasing manuka is not all beer and skittles I found this post on our local chat sit thismorning - "Hey there Myrtle .... We spent 3 years up in the North island chasing the Gold. No doubt we found the motherlode, but man was it stressful. Bees stolen, Beekeepers who couldn't give a **** as long as their wages were paid,bees burnt .... we flew into a site to pull the bees out and found a pile of scorched tin lids and staples ... and then got burnt with our contract extractor whacking on charges above and beyond the stated price .... a landowner who virtually through a 20 grand cheque back in my face saying it wasn't enough for the 60 hives on his property ..... it was an eye opener to say the least. Contracted to put bees into sites knowing full well the bees weren't gonna make honey but we daren't lose the site so a suicide mission and maybe next year ....
I feel for you guys.
We came home. We don't get top dollar, but I get to put bees where twenty nine summers of experience tells me where they might do all right. We run the honey through our own plant and don't grizzle too much at the broken frames, and end the day with a beer and a sense of achievement rather than ripped offness at giving away 35% of our hard earned crop to landowners. 
Yup .... I feel for you guys .... theirs no doubt there's some money to be made, but at what price ? "

http://www.nzbees.net/threads/theft-etc.10587/

Anyhow sorry to waylay the thread, back to muddy beekeeping techniques!


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## tmwilson (Apr 5, 2015)

Great picture Oldtimer. I bet that little MD moves those lickety-split. There should be a lot of helicopters available in your area not currently in use. This would work really well if you needed them moved. I fly a helicopter and have done many slingloads, though never with bees. It would depend on the distance, but with 2 or 3 sets of slings and a few smart helpers you could move pallatalized hives easily. The a/c would cost quite a bit per hour, but would be much more efficient and would have no chance of getting stuck and delaying your move. I wouldn't rule this out as an option without looking into it. Plus, how many people can say they have moved their bees with a helicopter.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Well there you go, chopper pilot who understands bees, possible business opportunity!


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## Back in the saddle (Mar 11, 2013)

Now I want to do this, just to say that I did this.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Did what?


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