# Small Hive Beetles from Hell



## niki.nicole (Apr 30, 2016)

Okay, it's not that bad...yet.

I didn't think they would be a problem this early, but apparently, they overwintered with my bees. In the hive, I saw quite a few. There was no evidence of SHB larva (I didn't get into the bottom brood box though) and nothing in the top box was slimmed, but I don't want them to get stronger. 

I tried this DIY thing a youtuber recommended where you spray aluminum flashing with Never Wet and install it between the bottom board and the bottom brood box. It doesn't seem to make a difference. I have hive beetle traps (2 in each deep), and they are collecting quite a few, but not enough.

I've seen them get trapped in swiffer duster pads. Can I place them at the entrance or will the bees get stuck too? Does it work to sprinkle diatomaceous earth around the hives? I've also heard of people using nematodes....

They are in partial sun--line of tress at their back so they get morning and afternoon sun but are shielded from evening--in a kind of weedy area. The grass is kept short around them, but it mostly wild. 

How do you control SHB?


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## texanbelchers (Aug 4, 2014)

The only thing I found that was reliable was a bottom oil trap. I just spilled the disposable traps and they never had beetles in them. I'm not keen on the idea of putting cases with poison in either.

I have started to watched the "never wet" video several times and have not figured out exactly what he is doing or why it would work. What I understand is that it is to keep them out, not remove them once in.

I have read that salt around/under the hives is the best to get them in the ground. I suspect that DE would just blow away or work in and be ineffective.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

chickens under the hives help mine out a great deal, and I use a beetle pad I got from a bee supplier in the top box as my bees seem to corner them near the ceiling. They fill up pretty well


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## stan.vick (Dec 19, 2010)

I went through the trapping the SHB with all the traps and even invented a couple of new ones. I then was given a colony that had been in the shade for five years, that had been left behind by a pollinator, the boxes were falling apart, there were hundreds of SHB and about thirty thousand bees, but no beetle larvae, even though it was mid summer. I took the colony home and placed it in full sun, after a week I could only find a half dozen beetles. Now days I don't worry at all about SHB, I keep the colonies strong and in full sun.


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## Kenww (Apr 14, 2013)

They are from hell. There's a reason they look like the scarab beetles in The Mummy.

I hadn't heard of salt. How much does it take. I've been thinking about the nematodes.


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## DerTiefster (Oct 27, 2016)

I can only say that nematodes _should_ work, and that you'll have to try it to know. Some folks use landscape cloth and rocks under their hives to deny the larvae any chance to pupate. That's what the nematodes do, too, but they eat the larvae rather than dehydrate/starve them. Our beekeepers assn. ordered from Southeastern Insectaries last year, and I heard no complaints, nor had any myself. You would probably find yourself ahead by buying one of the Freeman beetle traps and trying it out.

Of course, if the neverwet flange works, you could just put that over a screened bottom board with screen large enough for the beetles to get through. (But that _does_ seem to work both ways....) Perhaps it just depends upon whether they fly inside the colony. If they only crawl when inside and even crawl to get there, then they can't get off the bottom board.

You have a couple of things you can try. If you do that and report back, you'll have done a public service and learned something in the process.


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## Bee Arthur (Mar 21, 2015)

I caught more bees with Swiffer pads than I did beetles, though they do seem to work for some folks. I'm trying bottom boards with oil traps this year, so hopefully that'll make a big difference. I've used nematodes without any noticeable effect, so now I begrudgingly use Gardstar around my hives.

The biggest thing that works for me is to spend as much time as needed hunting and killing SHB on the outer and inner covers every time I open a hive. As long as your bees are chasing them up to the top of the hive, you can knock down a good percentage of them every time you're in the hive.

My next step is to move my hives to a full sun location; but that won't likely happen this season.


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## f650cs (Jun 16, 2014)

I sprinkle a box of rock salt (the kind used for making ice cream) under my hives once a year. It kills weeds and prevents the SHB from pupating.


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## Spur9 (Sep 13, 2016)

f650cs said:


> I sprinkle a box of rock salt (the kind used for making ice cream) under my hives once a year. It kills weeds and prevents the SHB from pupating.


Any particular time of year that you suggest for maximum effectiveness?


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

If you've got SHB issues it is partly because you're giving the bees too much space. Keep em strong my friends. 
You have to flirt with swarming but again...hives dense with bees will manage SHB on their own here in Central Illinois.
South of me? Not so sure. 

North Missouri is at or around the same latitude as where I am so I guess it could go either way.


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## WesternWilson (Jul 18, 2012)

I cannot personally vouch for them as we so far dodged SHB in our area...but Dine A Max towels placed on the top bars of the hive are supposed to trap SHB as well. The idea being the bees chew them up but then the fibres trap the SHB who try to hide in the towels.


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## dlbrightjr (Dec 8, 2015)

Has anyone tried trapping outside of the hives? I noticed my community feeders had a lot of beetles at them last year. They were around 100 yards from the hives. The beetles were up underneath them living in the debris that had accumulated. It made me wonder if the beetles could be attracted and poisoned away from the hives.


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## R_V (Aug 20, 2016)

dlbrightjr said:


> Has anyone tried trapping outside of the hives? .....


I've seen several threads about this and basically they'd take the bucket feeder and freeze it at night. They had several they would rotate out.


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## dlbrightjr (Dec 8, 2015)

R_V said:


> I've seen several threads about this and basically they'd take the bucket feeder and freeze it at night. They had several they would rotate out.


Thanks. I've managed to miss those. Any ideas on efficacy?


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## R_V (Aug 20, 2016)

no, sorry


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## costigaj (Oct 28, 2015)

I don't have a big issue here but mine are easily controlled with Beetle Blasters filled with oil. I only fill them up 25% to avoid spilling.


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## mgstei1 (Jan 11, 2014)

#1 Preventative Care after a deadout or being slimed is to treat the grade under and around the hive or hives about 5-6 ft out with salt or a pesticide drench.
If any beetles that come out of the ground, the 1st nice home they smell is right back into the hives. And they fly as good as a bee.
Best just to keep salt or drench year round under the colonies.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

I use epdm pond liner under my hives, immediately under, and for a couple of feet front and back of the stand. I use hens for the rest. Salt would kill the tree roots under that area, and pesticides would probably kill my chickens. My hives are actually in full sun. If I see 3 or 4 beetles it's a bad infestation. I like the beetle clothes. I gather I could use swiffers, but these are working and I have enough to run a year or 2 without buying more


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## philip.devos (Aug 10, 2013)

I agree with aunt betty. Several years ago one of my hives had a slimed frame. My kneejerk reaction was to buy a bunch of beetle traps (the kind that you put between 2 frames and the beetles fall into the oil. I later realized that that box had nectar stored but very few bees. For the past 3 years I have not put a single trap on.

I make sure that wherever there are stored nectar/pollen or where there are brood there is also a large population of bees. I often see hive beetles, but at least where I am, they cannot get a serious foothold to mess things up.


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## f650cs (Jun 16, 2014)

I usually sprinkle the rock salt during early spring, 
it when the weeds start appearing, like right now!


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## appalachianoutdoors (May 16, 2015)

aunt betty said:


> If you've got SHB issues it is partly because you're giving the bees too much space.
> +2. This is the most critical fix to your problem. What size boxes do you run and in those boxes, how many frames are covered front and back with bees? If you have less than 65%-75% of your frames covered front and back with bess, the bees have too much space to protect. Reduce your box size if possible, combine smaller weaker hives, etc.


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## niki.nicole (Apr 30, 2016)

I have two deeps and don't really know how to reduce the size. I'm hoping that their size will explode with spring...

I can't remember how covered they were, but I do know it wasn't wall to wall bees. I have a few shallow supers--should I take the top deep off and replace it with a shallow? I won't be able to do anything for over a week. Stuck in the city until spring break. That is when I'm planning on moving the nucs to hives--or rather nucs to hive. 

I'm also going to put gravel under the hives and I will add some salt to that as well.


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## rv10flyer (Feb 25, 2015)

Did you start out with Georgia package shb's and bees? Strong hives, Beetle Blaster traps and my hive tool have worked well.


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## niki.nicole (Apr 30, 2016)

Not sure what you mean by "Georgia Package shb's and bees".

They started out as a package in April and were strong in the summer but somehow went from a ton of stores at the end of summer to little stores at the end of Fall. 

I don't have good luck with the Beetle Blaster but really good luck with the Beetle Jail (http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/Beetle-Jail/productinfo/647B/). I try to get them with my hive tool, but then I end up trying to get them in the comb and end up making a mess of it.


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## niki.nicole (Apr 30, 2016)

Not sure what you mean by "Georgia Package shb's and bees".

They started out as a package in April and were strong in the summer but somehow went from a ton of stores at the end of summer to little stores at the end of Fall. 

I don't have good luck with the Beetle Blaster but really good luck with the Beetle Jail (http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/Beetle-Jail/productinfo/647B/). I try to get them with my hive tool, but then I end up trying to get them in the comb and end up making a mess of it.


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## appalachianoutdoors (May 16, 2015)

If you weather is still cold in Missouri, then the only SHB problem that you should have right now would be the ones living in the cluster with your bees. About reducing size, if you look in next week and you've only got 3-4 frames of bees in each deep, just set your top deep to the side. Consolidate two deeps into one deep, being careful to keep brood frames together, a pollen and honey frame on the outsides of the brood frames. Do a manipulation like this towards the afternoon so most of your foraging bees are back home and can better assess how many bees are in the hive. Make sure you or someone else can add that second deep back on your spring starts and the queen start laying heavy and bees are bringing in nectar.


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## rv10flyer (Feb 25, 2015)

What I meant was that my Georgia packages had tons of shb coming out with the bees and I had no idea what they were at the time. When I ask around, "Oh we don't have those in our hives". Sure they don't.

I threw some pro patties off Thur because the shb larvae were having a feast. With our unusually warm wx, they started reproducing too. I keep hives strong and put traps in hives where I see them. Traps really work well over the winter. Note: SHB will travel with swarms too.


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## tmwilson (Apr 5, 2015)

I'm in the screened bottom with oil trap beneath camp. I agree the bees can fend off the beetles if you maintain strong hives and an appropriate amount of space. However, I have found with the traps I have more flexibility with my bee checking schedule. It's one less thing to go wrong if the beetles are continuously kept in check. I generally find less than 5 beetles in any given hive, but there are often too many to count in the traps. I know the traps are working on my hives.


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## ToeOfDog (Sep 25, 2013)

I chuckle when I see people from northern states complain about SHB from Hell. SHB like heat and it gets a tad warm where I keep bees. I do not have any problems with SHB. They are out there but they are under control. 

1) The hives get about 2 or 3 hours of afternoon sun a day
2) They are surrounded by forest litter. 
3) they are TF and natural cell. 
4) no posions used
5) A beetle blaster is like elephant hunting with a BB gun.
6) I use solid, screened bottom board with debris trays. 
7) my bees are bred for sustainability not good looks and gentleness. Dont laugh. The main nuc supplier in the county breds for that
8) artifical pollen patties never used. 
9) make sure the hive is tight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
10) use two square inch main entrances!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 1/2 by 4 to 5"
11) no open SBB.
12) keep repeating #6, 9 and 10 all day tell you have them memorized.
13) have i mentioned #10???
14) you may want to read # 6, 9 and 10.


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## niki.nicole (Apr 30, 2016)

Toe of Dog: I read 1-5 and I will follow your lead. Especially with # 1. Good tip. I think that was the important part, right  I will try reducing the entrances as I have never done that before. I assume that it lets the bees guard it better so that they can stop SHB from getting in the first place. 

Not sure what a solid, screened bottom board is with a debris tray. Do you have a


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## Kenww (Apr 14, 2013)

Full sun is supposed to help with beetles? Yet they like heat. I don't understand. I've heard that before but not the reasoning.


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## Wandering Man (Jan 15, 2016)

I use DE around my hive. It will wash off, and has to be reapplied
I've had beetle blasters and cloths in the hives, but rarely see a beetle. I also use the Freeman bottom board, filled with soapy water or oil.

I've had good luck,a d see few beetles in my hives.

I did a split a few weeks ago, was too lazy to chase after the one beetle in the nuc, used a solid bottom board, and did not put enough bees in the nuc. I lost a frame of honey, and a frame of brood a week later to SHB larvae and slime.

Keep enough bees in the hive, and they will control the beetles.

I think the DE and sunshine are also factors.

Had a friend comment that having ants nearby also helps.


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## rv10flyer (Feb 25, 2015)

They overwinter in and above the cluster to stay warm. SHB's adapt to our local climate just like us. I have sit in front of my hives at dusk and watched SHB land and walk right in to a strong hive. I have seen some bees carry them off of the top bars only to fly right back in the front, but most ignore them. I smash them and install traps if I see more than 2-3.


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## ToeOfDog (Sep 25, 2013)

niki.nicole said:


> Toe of Dog: I read 1-5 and I will follow your lead. Especially with # 1. Good tip. I think that was the important part, right  I will try reducing the entrances as I have never done that before. I assume that it lets the bees guard it better so that they can stop SHB from getting in the first place.
> 
> Not sure what a solid, screened bottom board is with a debris tray. Do you have a


Study your enemy and note their weakness. I got up 30 minutes before sunrise one day and watch a hive for two hours. Then 5 minutes every hour at the top of the hour was spent. Then an hour before sunset I observed til 30 minutes past sunset. That was an educational day. 

Some SHB leave in the morning and come back at night. They fly all around the hive looking for a back door then decide to rush the front door. They can fly thru a 3/4" gap but not a 1/2" gap. Reduce the entrance down to 1/2" and force them to land and try to run past the guards and not fly past them. With a 14.75" wide entrance you have your guard bees spread out. Concentrate the defenses.

My screen Bottom Board has a sliding tray made of wood that tightly fits under the SBB. In essence the tray permits no ventilation and no access to the screen. The screen permits the SHB to escape pursuit to the "basement" thru the screened wire where they starve.

1 thru 4 describe my hives. 6,9 and 10 tell you how to control SHB. # 8 too


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## ToeOfDog (Sep 25, 2013)

Kenww said:


> Full sun is supposed to help with beetles? Yet they like heat. I don't understand. I've heard that before but not the reasoning.


SHB have an incubation temperature a couple degrees lower than large cell bees. Small cell bees have an incubation temperature a degree or two higher than large cell bees. Raise the temperature and make it difficult on the SHB is the theory.

The interior of my closed up, white colored vehicle can get up to 155*F in about 30 to 45 minutes in August. Now put a white colored hive in full sun. The temp goes up. The bees aircondition/cool the hive thru swamp cooling. You just turned your entire work force into water gathers.


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## ToeOfDog (Sep 25, 2013)

rv10flyer said:


> They overwinter in and above the cluster to stay warm. SHB's adapt to our local climate just like us. I have sit in front of my hives at dusk and watched SHB land and walk right in to a strong hive. I have seen some bees carry them off of the top bars only to fly right back in the front, but most ignore them. I smash them and install traps if I see more than 2-3.


 RV 10, nice... How long did it take you to build??


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## snapper1d (Apr 8, 2011)

I have tried Beetle Blasters,swiffer pads,Bottom board oil traps,Beetle Barns and cd cases. Beetle blasters were the worst and nastiest to use.The others all did fair.The biggest killer was when I made up my own beetle poison for the cd cases.I first used Combat and it killed beetles good but became expensive.Then pollen substitute with a little honey and water to thin it.It killed beetles also.Then I added enough apple cider vinegar to where I could smell it good.Now thats good beetle killer.The vinegar really draws them inside the cd cases.That stuff eliminates them quickly.The only problem is that cd cases are flimsy and you have to be careful with them but they are cheap.


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