# Pollination Question...



## dhood (May 26, 2008)

How many hives are usually needed to pollinate an orchard? And what is an average rate per hive? I know this is kind of personal to a bussiness but ballpark figures would be appriciated. A orchard has shown interest in having a local beekeeper pollinate his trees. I dont have enough hives to do it right now, and before I spend too much, I would like to see if it would be worthwhile. Also would a standard trailor, with a ball hookup be suitable to transport hives? I just dont want to get involved in something that will strain resources and be unprofitable. (I will have to purchase/build new equipment to be able to do this.) 

Thanks, Daniel


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## beedeetee (Nov 27, 2004)

Each fruit is different, but in our cherry orchard we use about one per acre.


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## dhood (May 26, 2008)

Thanks, The orchard is peaches. I've seen other orchards at pollination time have pallets with about 4 - 6 hives that is visible from the road. They may have more that is not visible.


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## stangardener (Mar 8, 2005)

around here peaches do fine with out hiring hives. the need to thin fruit is more likey than poor pollination.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Even crops that do not generally need bees, show improvement with bees in several areas. One is the size of the fruit. Second is the uniformity of the fruit. Even though thinning is done on many fruits such as peaches, growers still want large marketable fruit, with even sides and uniformity.

Many people think pollination from honeybees has to do with the number of fruit set. But usually, there are more than enough native pollinators to get a good set. But its when you see curled cucumbers, big sided apples, peaches and pumpkins (small on the other side), thats the sign of poor pollination. You can have lots and lots of pumpkins or peaches, but good pollination gives the fruit an even growth, and this demands more money as it is what the consumer wants and is a sign of quality.

I don't have it available, but I have a report somewhere that was based on research that for those fruits not "thinned" but were traditionally not pollinated by bees, had increases of about 10% in production when honeybee colonies were used. Of course, its hard for a farmer to pay for pollination hives when a 10% increase or decrease is hard to see with all the other variables that go into crop production year to year.


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

Here in my area, it's 3 hives per acre and the price depends on the fruit/nut/vegitable.


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## high rate of speed (Jan 4, 2008)

It all depends on wich crop you are pollinating,how much money the farmer wants to spend and how good the bees are.In the sacramento valley Cherries normally take 1/2 of a hive,to 1 hive per acre.Almonds are 1 to 3.It all pretty much depends on the farmer.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

RayMarler said:


> Here in my area, it's 3 hives per acre and the price depends on the fruit/nut/vegitable.


Ya sure...

and the price depends on ...

On how many rouskies are welling to do it for nothing.
Finding alot of them lately.


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## high rate of speed (Jan 4, 2008)

Lol.


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## high rate of speed (Jan 4, 2008)

Arent those the guys who do stuff for nothing?


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

high rate of speed said:


> Arent those the guys who do stuff for nothing?


Ya,
don't worry about the mites, nosema or foulbrood.

The rouskies do more to bring this business down than anything.


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

*Pollination*

Field Run

The Going Rate

They'll Do It For 100$


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## high rate of speed (Jan 4, 2008)

10-4 good buddy.


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## high rate of speed (Jan 4, 2008)

For 100 dollars ha.They are doing clover pollinaton in our area for nothing.


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

*For Nothing*

Here today gone tomorrow but there sure are a lot of them.


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## high rate of speed (Jan 4, 2008)

Gone tomorrow NOT.Here to stay,they will be the downfall to all of us.


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

*Downfall*

Naw, we're the locals.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Tom G. Laury said:


> Naw, we're the locals.


Ya ...

Lost two spots pumkins spots doing it for free.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

I don't see any lost contracts due to the "freebee" types who offer colonies for free pollination. Yes, they pick up the farm that wants two or four, but the farms that want 12, 25 or 100, want more than the unreliable local hobbyist who never has enough bees come spring.

I would think that for a guy who only sells pollen patties by the "thousands", that your pollination business would be somewhat protected by the very nature of having pollination contracts on a scale large enough that the local hobbyist with a few hives would not be a threat. 

And this site is great!  I never thought the commercial forum would be a place for commercial beeks to blame the smaller hobbyist for the ills of the industry. Nosema, fouldbrood, mites......why not just throw in that they secretly pour chems in commercial hives and magically make your comb about 30 years old....  What a hoot!


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

*For Free*

OK yeah I know sometimes I wonder too about the grower, his loyalty...Funny how they never call you first either, "Oh hi I've been meaning to call you.."


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## high rate of speed (Jan 4, 2008)

Ah Louie just give up the recipe,fishing has been fun.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

BjornBee said:


> I don't see any


Your right Bjorn, you don't see anything.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

high rate of speed said:


> Ah Louie just give up the recipe,fishing has been fun.


Ya, lou even the bee business needs a Jerry Springer.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*Almond Pollination 2009 rates.*

Does anyone want to make a prediction?

8 frame average $ 169 to $177.00
The inspection is done without smoke and favorable temps.
Comments are welcomed.
Ernie


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

I have a feeling that fuel is going to play a key role in 2009. I think it will keep some of the far east guys out of the game this year which may drive up prices as a shortage will occur along with guys wanting to cover their fuel costs from closer states.

I still think its a little early to try and nail down a price....but I would bet my wooden nickel that your going to be in the ball park with your prices.


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

BjornBee said:


> I don't see any lost contracts due to the "freebee" types who offer colonies for free pollination. Yes, they pick up the farm that wants two or four, but the farms that want 12, 25 or 100, want more than the unreliable local hobbyist who never has enough bees come spring.


I hesitate to speak for Keith, Tom or HRS but I think they are not talking about local hobbyists, but migrators needing to place colonies at any cost or free, just to have a place to set them.
Here in Wisconsin there are some bringing in cranberry bees at way below going rates, it happens all over. I know a couple beeks who lost contracts this way. It wasn't local hobbyists, who make little impact, but larger operators who maybe weren't even aware of market prices.



BjornBee said:


> And this site is great! ........


Yes, I think it is too. It is gratifying that there has been no incivility between hobbyists, sideliners and commercial, and I hope it stays that way. 
Sheri


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

JohnK and Sheri said:


> I hesitate to speak for Keith, Tom or HRS but I think they are not talking about local hobbyistsSheri


Feel free to jump in any time Sheri,

Old Bjorn is just once again, showing us what little he knows.

If he was closer, I would help him take the bulletts out of his gun so he would quit shooting himself in the foot.


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## stangardener (Mar 8, 2005)

i've been wrong before but i would say rouskies are a referance to eastern european imigrants. they aren't necesarily hobbiest. like everything in beekeeping it's a local thing. at least i hope it's local, if not the whole of north americas been flooded. i've had to compete with immigrants doing what i do for years. who ever makes the entry quotas doesn't mow lawns, plant row crops or keep bees


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

Just for you Keith, I've changed my signature. Hope you like it.

So its not hobbyists. Its other commercial guys. Maybe they are so competitive, due to not sitting on beesource chatting all the time... 

I'll chalk you up for one who thinks that many problems (spread of nosema, mites, and afb) are due to migratory pollination operations. I know in the past, I have been shouted down in mentioning items like this. Its a little different than my "gripe" as I have experience with many of them over-medicating. But if your suggesting that they are still spreading these things on levels that its worth mentioning here, than its going to be a bigger issue than I thought.

And at your convenience, please refrain from your less than mature comments about "I don't see" references and "what little he knows". I think my three year old could make a comeback comment stronger than those....  But if it makes you feel better...Ouch, boy Keith that was a slam!....I guess I'll refrain from jumping in next time. I am so ashamed of not knowing what a "rouskie" was, that I will hide my head, and doubt myself.....

I'm not one to call people by code name or hidden labels of some type. So tell me, why not just call them Migratory beekeepers? Why call them rouskies?


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Hey Bjorn,

Feel free to jump in any time. 

what I was saying ( rouskies) are locals .

They will go into a pollination area and give the grower money to put the bees in, yes you heard me right, I know that sounds crazy but it is happening.They don't speak the lanuage well and feel if they pay they will have a better chance of getting the spots to put bees.


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## BjornBee (Feb 7, 2003)

So I was, regardless of comments about not knowing, dead on in my comments about locals. They are not migratory, not European immigrants, etc.

No need to repeat my comments on those who provide pollination services to commercial operations for little more than a place to keep bees, and even pay cash or a box of honey to say "Thank-You!". I have ranted about this a number of times. I usually call them things too, but not to be repeated here.  So, I'll stick with rouskies.

I could imagine that in California, things are much tighter for even a simple location. Here, beekeepers, or "rouskies", are stupid enough to think commercial farms are a great place to have hives for honey. So it's not a competitive thing for lack of sites (as there are many), as much as its an ignorance thing. If it were not for the pollination fee being PAID by the FARMER, I would not go close to operations that cut and mow, spray, and generally have poor honey producing sites.


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

*The going rate*

From what I can read between the lines, with long time clients who are fairly open with me, there is still a great deal of suspicion that ccd and hard times in bees is some kind of PR campaign to continue to raise prices. All of the costs in almond farming have risen dramatically and managers are trying hard to put a cap on things. They will continue to delay commitments and shop around as long as they have the least suspicion that you're overpriced. Growers all talk among themselves, just like us. Whenever the low ballers come in with their quotes, word travels fast. In 2006 there was a fair shortage of bees. Until the growers feel that pinch again, they will continue to vigorously resist price increase for pollination. 

But it's pretty tough to keep your numbers up isn't it? 

There is always a home for quality bees. Be sure to get a quality price. Nowadays that often means holding out and sticking to your guns, with all of the resultant uncertainty and stress.

I think Ernie is close but it could go either way from his prediction IMO.


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## dhood (May 26, 2008)

Thanks for all the information on this post. Just to clarify, I am not trying to out bid another person for a contract. From the information I recieved I dont think he even rents bees yet. It is something I was told that he just wanted to start. I am pretty sure he was asking to try to get it done free. But I am not interested in that. That is why I ask this question, I would like to offer this service in the future in our local community and to individual framers that want a couple of hives, but I am not going to do it for nothing (I would even need to buy a trailor). With all that being said, I just couldn't find a price per hive, for pollination, is it all over the board varing from person to person? I want to make some profit, but not be overpriced. Thanks, Daniel


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## high rate of speed (Jan 4, 2008)

Tom G. Laury said:


> In 2006 there was a fair shortage of bees.
> 
> Gee thats awful funny we still had 2000 hives availiable.There is always a shortage of bees,but not boxes.


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

*2000 available*

Really? Didn't get placed? What happened?


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## high rate of speed (Jan 4, 2008)

Many keepers came to california with no contracts.I wasnt going to put bees in for a $100 a hive.In our area it was almost like an auction for bees.Seems it always is with the rouskies around.


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

*Bee auction*

Sorry about that. Nothing quite like a desperate beekeeper. Unless it's a panicked grower at bloom. It's not like it used to be is it. I can tell when people are ashamed of what they've done because they start telling lies.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Tom G. Laury said:


> because they start telling lies.


I thought that was saved for tha CSBA meeting.


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

No, no way;...really?


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

*Lies*

Around here we call that winter honey. You know that extra poundeage you get between the time you shut the extractors off and those winter conventions. Some years it can amount to considerable tonnage, depending of course on your hive counts.

Jean-Marc


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## jjgbee (Oct 12, 2006)

*Back to the original post*

WOW This thread went everywhere. I developed a pollination market in a u-pick cherry valley. The timing was just after Almonds and before the Sage flow. There were many small farms. Some only wanted 1 hive. I went to the Cherry growers assn meeting and proposed this deal. Everybody in the assn. rented my bees. All bees would be put in on my schedule. All bees pulled on my schedule. ( before Sage flow) My bees were going backwards during this time in the spring and the area was close to home. I made divides, made queens and requeened while waiting for the sage flow. My rent was $45.00 per colony and made an average of 30# honey per colony, on the 80 colonies. My association with the growers grew into real friendships over the years. I had a real concern for their operations. They also all sold honey at their u-pick stands. I supplied about 1000 ea 2# bottles ea year. Hope this answers the original post and what is possible


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## dhood (May 26, 2008)

thanks jjgbee, that is exactly what Ive been waiting for. I was thinking $45-$50. sounded about right. Just didn't really know. Since all this talk about CCD on the tv, in my area, people want to rent hives just to have them near there gardens, (Even though honeybees are commonly seen around.) I don't think anyone offers this service around here. Thought it would be good if I could do that in the near future. Most people want hives for free, and as much as I would like to be helpfull to the community, I just dont have the time or money to do that, but did not want to overcharge anyone in the same respect. Again thanks for all the helpful post, Daniel


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*Pollination: Encyclopedia II - Pollination - Number of hives needed per acre 4000 m2*

Here is a web search:

http://www.experiencefestival.com/a..._4000_msup2sup_of_crop_pollination/id/1855574

Pollination - Number of hives needed per acre 4000 m2 of crop pollination
Apples: 1—2 Blueberries: 4 Cantaloupe: 2—4 Cucumber 2—1 Squash: 1 Watermelon: 1—3 
It is estimated that about one hive per acre will sufficiently pollinate watermelons. In the 1950s when the woods were full of wild bee trees, and beehives were normally kept on most South Carolina farms, a farmer who grew ten acres (40,000 m²) of watermelons would be a large grower and probably had all the pollination needed. But today's grower may grow 200 acres (800,000 m²), and, if lucky, there might be one bee tree left within range. The only option in the current economy is to bring beehives to the field during blossom time.

Source: Delaplaine et al. 1994, Bee pollination of Georgia crop plants. CES Bulletin 1106

Adapted from the Wikipedia article "Number of hives needed per acre 4000 m2 of crop pollination", under the G.N U Free Docmentation License. Please also see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki


http://www.experiencefestival.com/a..._4000_msup2sup_of_crop_pollination/id/1855574

Regards,
Ernie Lucas Apiaries


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## Aspera (Aug 1, 2005)

Keith Jarrett said:


> Feel free to jump in any time Sheri,
> 
> Old Bjorn is just once again, showing us what little he knows.


This is not civil.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Aspera said:


> This is not civil.


Whats not civil about the truth!


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