# BackyardHive.com



## Logan (May 29, 2009)

I wanted to try foundationless frames. I saw on Michael Bush's website a link to where you can buy them. I placed an order ten days ago for 10 medium foundation frames and a hive tool. I got an email receipt, but no information on when they would ship or when I could expect my purchase. So, I emailed them to ask. No response. Next day, email and call. No response. I continued emailing and calling and no response all week. Finally, I gave up. 5 days after I give up, I get an email saying they are a small operation and they were shipping today. I email back saying to cancel the order -- I bought frames elsewhere because I needed them and they weren't getting back to me. No response to that email yet. I want to go foundationless, but I'm not sure I'll use BackyardHive.com in the future, at least if I need them right away. If you have time to wait, they still might be a good way to go but I haven't seen the product yet.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

*Re: BackyardHive.com (Ref by Michael Bush Website)*

I'm not sure why you referred to me in the title. I only know they offer them. I'm not in business with them. But they are pretty much just a couple who run the business, as I understand it, and they are often off speaking somewhere. The delay is not that surprising to me.


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## Logan (May 29, 2009)

*Re: BackyardHive.com (Ref by Michael Bush Website)*

I found them through the link on your website. (http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfoundationless.htm) If you go to your website there is a link that says "link to foundationless frames for sale." Thus, I was referred to the hive by others. I'm not sure if you endorse them or not, but it appears that way on your website. I am sharing my experience with this vendor, and part of my experience is how I got there in the first place. That is why I mentioned you in the post, it is by your website that I found these folks in the first place. I highly endorse you and your website. Unfortunately, I cannot say the same for this vendor. Take care, --Logan


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## ksadie23 (Oct 22, 2007)

*Re: BackyardHive.com (Ref by Michael Bush Website)*

Hi Logan,

Michael is correct, there are only a few of us operating BackYardHive and we are curently on the road in the northwest giving bee classes and presentations. We do have someone back "at the ranch" helping fullfilling orders and answering emails part-time so it does take some time for us to answer all the phone calls and emails that do come in. Most orders take about a week to ship out.

I will have Lacey send you some of the frames to you at no charge for your troubles and hope to hear form you in the future.
Karen
BackYardHive.com


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## Natalie (Jan 14, 2009)

*Re: BackyardHive.com (Ref by Michael Bush Website)*

I had high hopes in getting equipment from them and planned on placing a large order but didn't feel their product was as good as advertised.
I ordered frames from them and it did take a long time to recieve them and I was very unhappy with the quality.

A) I had called first about why the shipping charges were so high compared to other companies because I had planned on ordering two topbar hives and 300 frames.
I was told (if I am understanding them correctly) that its because they are a smaller business and with the volume they ship compared to other bee keeping supply companies their prices are higher due to the shipping service they use or qualify for. 

B) It does take a long time for them to get back to you by phone or e-mail, although they are polite and helpful when they do its still not good customer service to leave you hanging for that amount of time when you are buying merchandise from them.

C) They advertise the bars in their topbar hive as being (from their website) "Carefully-Milled, One-Piece Topbars Are Durable and Precisely Spaced" so I called to make sure the topbars and guides in their foundationless frames were all one solid piece as well.
It was extremely important to me that these were not glued on guides for the kind of money I was going to be spending.
I know that alot of people use popsicle sticks glued in and its fine with them but my personal choice was the one piece construction across the length of the bar and since that is what they offered I assumed I had found what I was looking for.
I was told that absolutely they were all one piece solid construction.
This turned out to be not true.

I ordered one set of foundationless frames to start with and if I liked them I planned to order 300 more.
I didn't want to order thousands of dollars worth of equipment right off the bat from someone I had never done business with.
Although their prices and shipping were higher than other places I figured if the quality was as good as they say on their website it would be worth it to get what I want.

Thank goodness I only ordered the small quanitity as I said I was not impressed with the quality.
The website raves about the professional woodworker Carlos that makes their equipment with precision and as being top quality but this is what I recieved:

The angle guide itself is actually two seperate pieces of wood that has the two halves glued together, it is then glued on to the topbar.
The topbar is actually 3 pieces and not one piece solid construction as I was previously told on the phone. 
One of the reasons I could tell this is that they were not tightly put together, as in seamless and I could see the glue.
It looks like they were slapped together.
Most of the angled guides were not glued on evenly with the top bar leaving the guide off center.
On the website it shows the guide as coming all the way across the bar and abutting the end bars without any gaps.
Some of the guides were cut shorter in length than the topbar causing a gap on either one or both sides of the frame where it meets the sides.
Some frames had a gap on both sides and some would fit snuggly against one end bar and then come up short on the other end.
It was just plain sloppy work.

I did speak to someone there about it but I didn't want to have to pay the shipping to return them, the shipping for me both ways would have been more than the cost of the frames in the end.
I thought about it a little more though and decided to e-mail them about rectifying it more on their end, I never heard back. 
I just decided to leave it as a lesson learned and was extremely grateful that I did not order 300 frames and the two topbar hives from them I originally planned to order or I would have been in a real mess.

I ended up having the hives and topbars made for me and ordered the endbars and bottom bars from Dadant and have 300 bars for half of what I would have paid and I am very happy with the quality.

I don't know about any of their other equipment so I can't say if their other stuff is any better or worse but since you brought it up I felt I should share my experience.
I realize they are a small operation, as I was told each time I mentioned an issue I had with them but that can't be an excuse for everything. 
The amount of time it takes for them to return calls and ship items is still too long for this type of business.

I wish it had turned out differently, I was very disappointed since I had wanted to do business with them and I actually had really wanted to order that hive tool they sell. I am good about giving companies a second chance but between the shipping prices and not knowing what to expect I didn't want to risk it.
I am not sure if they have changed their product to a better quality item, its apparent from the first post of this thread that their service is still lacking but to be fair I would ask that if anyone planned to order from them that they inquire first about their concerns instead of just going off of my experience.

The point of my posting is not to trash anyone but to prevent anyone from having the same issues that I did with this company and I feel my complaints are valid and worth mentioning.
I want to be fair, if they have improved their practices and product since I have ordered then great but its safe to say that you should ask questions before ordering.
I thought I should put my 2 cents worth in for consideration.
Hopefully they smooth out their operation a little more and do well.


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## magista (Jun 1, 2009)

Try buying some standard wedge style frames and turn the wedge on their sides and glue 'em in. Bingo, foundation-less frames (just like Michael Bush instructs you do to on his site). Takes about 15 minutes to do 10 frames. I did it the other day, it's easy.


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## laurelmtnlover (May 29, 2009)

*Re: BackyardHive.com (Ref by Michael Bush Website)*

Please see the top bar hives at www.customwoodkits.com . I bought two top bar hives for $100.00 each, complete and I am very happy with them. There are triangular bars, I used no wax and all my comb is straight . Joey is a one man operation and does this for the love of bees. He is also my mentor, as there was no one in my area that does Top Bar hive beekeeping. Thus, I am mentored by cell phone and internet; he is always available for me.


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## Logan (May 29, 2009)

*Re: BackyardHive.com (Ref by Michael Bush Website)*

To the credit of BackyardHive.com, they sent me a package of free frames so I could try them out as they promised here and in an email to me. This act was unsolicited, and I think that gives them points for character.

Unfortunately, I do not think I will be purchasing these frames in the future. (Although I likely will give them another chance and purchasing something else from them, given their character in trying to make this right.) 

The top bar of the frame has a triangle wedge glued (and not screwed or nailed as far as I can tell) to the under-side of the top bar. It is not one solid piece, and my preference is for solid wood. This is for two reasons: one is that I have gone to great pains to eliminate any chemicals, even glue, from the hive, and I want to keep it that way. The other reason is that I worry that the glue will wear out and cause a collapse later on.

The frames are pictured on the website assembled, and no where on the website does it indicate that they will ship otherwise. They came un-assembled. However, they did include nails. I put 2 together and found that the joints (finger joints) for the pieces do not fit so well together as other commercially available frames. 

I also want to reply to the point made earlier that they are a small business, and thus not able to reply when out, etc. There was nothing on their website where it would indicate that one should expect to wait several days to a week for a reply. When I sent an email, there was no robot replying that they were busy and would get back to me at such-and-such a time, etc. There was nothing on their voice machine telling me that I should expect slower service or anything other than the website, which appears very well done and commercial quality. So, if this is indeed the case, then my suggestion would be for backyardhive.com to put some information out there regarding what to expect with customer service, wait times, delivery times, etc. If folks are off giving presentations, etc., that information should be out there, at a minimum on the voice machine so when calling about an order a customer knows what is going on. Otherwise, customers don't stay customers. 

The last thing I will say on this point is that I did get the link from Michael Bush's website. It is because I have so much respect for what Michael Bush has done here that I gave this company a try. I still have a lot of respect for Michael Bush, and in no way here am I trying to slight him. Additionally, I have a lot of respect for the character of the folks at backyardhive.com, given the lengths they have gone to try to make it right. Unfortunately, I'm not happy with the frames they sent me and I think there needs to be some modifications to their website and voice mail so that folks know what to expect. 

I hope that sharing my experiences will be helpful to others in search of quality beekeeping products. Thank you for the opportunity to share them.


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## customwoodkits (Feb 13, 2009)

*Re: BackyardHive.com (Ref by Michael Bush Website)*

Hi all,
I am glad to hear that you are happy with your hives laurelmtnlover. Thank you for the kind words in your post above. I really do build these hives for the love and good of the bees. Logan and Natalie, if I can be a help in any way please let me know. We should all be thinking more about what can we do for the bees and not so much about what the bees can do for us.
You guys all have a great day.


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## doc25 (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: BackyardHive.com (Ref by Michael Bush Website)*

It seems the Tbh is becoming the coinnoisseurs choice. I have a feeling one day the lang will be the poor mans Tbh .


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## Comoesq (Nov 14, 2009)

*Re: BackyardHive.com (Ref by Michael Bush Website)*

Does anyone know if Backyard has improved on its products and customer service? I submitted a small order, recieved 2 or 3 quick emials acknowledging my order, that it would ship in 2 or 3 days, did not get the product yet, sent a question whether it had actually shipped and have recieved no response to that email.


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## Duboisi (Oct 7, 2009)

*Re: BackyardHive.com (Ref by Michael Bush Website)*

I just read this tread, and was a bit baffled by how Michael Bush was linked to the strife the poster had with a vendor.

I have at least seen those links as pointers to where one might find what you are looking for, not as endorsements.

If anyone thinks that a link at a site leads you to a site that does not have a high enough quality in some ways - That is a thing to mail the webmaster about, not a public forum.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

*Re: BackyardHive.com (Ref by Michael Bush Website)*



Comoesq said:


> Does anyone know if Backyard has improved on its products and customer service? Clip...


It looks like you will be providing the update. 

If you are pleased with the product and service please post it.

The fact that you mentioned the supplier seems to make you partially responsible for the satisfaction of future customers, as was the case for Michael Bush. 

For the record, when did you place your order?


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## Comoesq (Nov 14, 2009)

*Re: BackyardHive.com (Ref by Michael Bush Website)*

This was a reply to an old link, not my subject line. The link discussed some dissatisfaction with backyard hive in 2009 with no posts since. Due to my order, and my interest in their Golden Mean hive, I posted my reply (question) assuming it was proper and in a correct manner. Please read the original post to get the proper history on this company. If the method of asking my question, replying to an existing forum post was incorrect, I apologize.


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## Duboisi (Oct 7, 2009)

*Re: BackyardHive.com (Ref by Michael Bush Website)*

@comoesq: Sorry if you thought I was referring to you. I was offcourse referring to the user Logan who started and named this tread. Had not seen this tread before you made it pop up among the new posts, hence the reply at this time.

It would be nice with an update if you order from backyardhive though.


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## Logan (May 29, 2009)

*Re: BackyardHive.com (Ref by Michael Bush Website)*

I wish I could edit the topic so that the title no longer mentioned Michael Bush. My experience was with the company, not Mr. Bush. The forum won't allow me to do this, so I can only apologize and say how much I endorse and try to emulate Mr. Bush. (I love his site!). Can a moderator help me by editing the title please or better yet, by just deleting it? I have since regretted saying anything bad about anyone who is trying to do something natural with the bees.


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## Comoesq (Nov 14, 2009)

*Re: BackyardHive.com (Ref by Michael Bush Website)*

Update: The day I posted my query, I received an email from Backyard Hive stating the CD had shipped. I have received it and, according to the post mark, it was shipped the day they emailed. There was a bit of a delay, around 3 days, which is only a minor concern. The reason for the concern was that when I placed my order I received an email that it would ship in 2-3 days which it did not. That, plus this thread resulted in my concerns. Overall, I received around 4 emails from Backyard Hives and got the product in a reasonable amount of time and it was as described. In this instance, I would say they were good to deal with. This experience is not enough to make a recommendation or no recommendation. Just to make sure there is no misunderstanding: Backyard Hives preformed well on my purchase.
Jerry


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