# Sensationalizing the Breed



## DanielD (Jul 21, 2012)

Yeah, I walk past a box of toothpicks and just don't trust them. Now I find out it's not their fault. I'll try to forgive them.


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

I once had to ride on the tailgate of a pickup for half a mile with my veil on with my wife driving because I was being chased by a bunch of toothpicks.


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## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

Riverderwent said:


> I once had to ride on the tailgate of a pickup for half a mile with my veil on with my wife driving because I was being chased by a bunch of toothpicks.


excellent point :applause:


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

I have so many toothpicks in my yard that the neighbor kids are afraid to play in theirs.


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## dlbrightjr (Dec 8, 2015)

You guys just need to get a different brand of toothpicks. They've been developing a brand of toothpicks here that are perfectly harmless. Unfortunately you can't get them to go near your teeth. They want to go up your nose. They are still working on it though. I'll keep you updated.


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## Hillbillybees (Mar 3, 2016)

Natures is a new beekeeper that wants to propagate AFB. He says he can train them to be gentle. He wants to put them on national forest, blm and state land. He does not want to change out queens or any other sort of controls that have proven effective to hot hives. He wants to try to manage hot hives in public places. He expects no liability if they hurt someone. He believes he can handle the swarming issue of the hot hives. He cannot be told anything because he has it all figured out. I raised bees in Buckeye Arizona in the late seventies. AFB was barely getting a foothold. I did it as an FFA project with 12 hives. Six miles away a man on a tractor was almost killed by a hive in an ironwood tree over a hundred yards from where he was driving a tractor. I finished with the bees when I joined the Marine Corp and sold them. I started again in 2011. I enjoy the bees. No one enjoys hot hives. Not even NaturesResonance. Maybe when he has a few hundred on his veil and a dozen or so in his suit the many posts he has had trying to help him will "resonate" with him then. We can hope.


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## dlbrightjr (Dec 8, 2015)

Sure. When he sobers up he's going to think this is all pretty funny though.


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## trapperdirk (Nov 3, 2013)

If that were entirely​ true there should be absolutely no statistical difference in the frequency of bites between various dog breeds.


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## Hillbillybees (Mar 3, 2016)

One more thing and I'm done with this. The stimuli for AFB is just walking up to the hive. I dont know how your going to change that.


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## NaturesResonance (Mar 8, 2017)

http://www.nytimes.com/1984/08/12/us/doctor-finds-thoothpicks-injure-8000-yearly.html
http://mentalfloss.com/article/5164...-people-who-died-after-eating-something-weird
http://bottomlineinc.com/death-by-toothpick-why-you-need-to-watch-what-you-swallow/

All restaurant owners: Consider this your final warning! If you continue to provide and promote the use of toothpicks of any-and-all varieties of wood. You can and will be found guilty of negligent homicide. The DA's office will not tolerate the these invasive species of tooth picking devices. No picking of teeth will be allowed on public land.


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## NaturesResonance (Mar 8, 2017)

Hillbillybees said:


> One more thing and I'm done with this. The stimuli for AFB is just walking up to the hive. I dont know how your going to change that.


Not that this statement is even remotely true, but it's still ridiculously easy to avoid evoking said stimuli.
Don't walk up to the hive. You really are a quick one.


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## Green Tractor (Mar 31, 2016)

Hillbillybees said:


> Natures is a new beekeeper that wants to propagate AFB. He says he can train them to be gentle. He wants to put them on national forest, blm and state land. He does not want to change out queens or any other sort of controls that have proven effective to hot hives. He wants to try to manage hot hives in public places. He expects no liability if they hurt someone. He believes he can handle the swarming issue of the hot hives. He cannot be told anything because he has it all figured out. I raised bees in Buckeye Arizona in the late seventies. AFB was barely getting a foothold. I did it as an FFA project with 12 hives. Six miles away a man on a tractor was almost killed by a hive in an ironwood tree over a hundred yards from where he was driving a tractor. I finished with the bees when I joined the Marine Corp and sold them. I started again in 2011. I enjoy the bees. No one enjoys hot hives. Not even NaturesResonance. Maybe when he has a few hundred on his veil and a dozen or so in his suit the many posts he has had trying to help him will "resonate" with him then. We can hope.


And I thought the OP was writing parody. Wow.


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## Green Tractor (Mar 31, 2016)

NaturesResonance said:


> Not that this statement is even remotely true, but it's still ridiculously easy to avoid evoking said stimuli.
> Don't walk up to the hive. You really are a quick one.


I'd love to see your first-hand experience handing AFB colonies and getting them to act gentle and produce like commercially significant races of bees. Drop some YouTube videos of you handling known AFB sites and show us the way. 

I tend my hives with shorts, t-shirts and sometimes without a hood. You say you can demonstrate the same with AFB. Please...demonstrate. Until then few here are going to do much more than wonder if your true hobby is distilling and consuming fuel-grade 'shine out back.


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## NaturesResonance (Mar 8, 2017)

trapperdirk said:


> If that were entirely​ true there should be absolutely no statistical difference in the frequency of bites between various dog breeds.


Statistically, pitbulls bite less frequently than Dachshund's. https://petolog.com/articles/most-aggressive-dogs.html
I've never heard of a cop killing a Dachshund because it was being aggressive. I've never heard of people banning them because they're so dangerous. It's just sensationalism. Nothing sensational about a Dachshund attack. They look too cute to be scary. You can't sell that story.


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## NaturesResonance (Mar 8, 2017)

Green Tractor said:


> I'd love to see your first-hand experience handing AFB colonies and getting them to act gentle and produce like commercially significant races of bees. Drop some YouTube videos of you handling known AFB sites and show us the way.
> 
> I tend my hives with shorts, t-shirts and sometimes without a hood. You say you can demonstrate the same with AFB. Please...demonstrate. Until then few here are going to do much more than wonder if your true hobby is distilling fuel-grade 'shine out back.


I never claimed I could tend to them in shorts and a T-shirt. That's just stupid! Illiterate bushmen have been tending African bees for a very long time. Besides, define "AFB" for us. Define "commercially significant" while you're at it. Did you even read the top post? Try to be a little more objective and less subjective. 

managing african bees
https://youtu.be/dAZ0thZEypw


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## AnnieBee (Jun 30, 2015)

The issue is motivation and potential for injury: I'd rather be on the receiving end of several ankle biter Wiener Dogs than be the victim of one Pit Bull Attack.
The Prey Drive is well documented in the Bully Breeds, unfortunately their prey trigger may be a kid on a bike or someone walking their own dog on a leash.


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## NaturesResonance (Mar 8, 2017)

Green Tractor said:


> I'd love to see your first-hand experience handing AFB colonies and getting them to act gentle and produce like commercially significant races of bees. Drop some YouTube videos of you handling known AFB sites and show us the way.
> 
> I tend my hives with shorts, t-shirts and sometimes without a hood. You say you can demonstrate the same with AFB. Please...demonstrate. Until then few here are going to do much more than wonder if your true hobby is distilling and consuming fuel-grade 'shine out back.


African Bees - Handling Apis Mellifera Scutellata without gloves or hand protection
https://youtu.be/tOraSMtGGI4


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## Hillbillybees (Mar 3, 2016)

NaturesResonance said:


> Not that this statement is even remotely true, but it's still ridiculously easy to avoid evoking said stimuli.
> Don't walk up to the hive. You really are a quick one.


You flying up to them and hovering? Using your cloaking device suit from MannLake? Popping up out of the ground? Tip Toeing? Low Crawl? Camouflage? Dressing in your new "don't sting me I'm a queen bee" suit? Wearing "I Love Bees" pin after you teach them to read? It all sounds ridiculously easy to me. 
Daniel Beebe, Beebe's Pest Control in the valley. He will let you come and get bees for free. He has at least 20 trucks and says he averages 2 to 5 bee calls per truck a week. None of the other beekeepers want them. He has tried that. Call him and tell him Troy from Arkansas told you about him. All the AFB you want for free. 28 foot ladder plus 25000 bees and your training will have started. Let us know how it turns out.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

Pit bulls have earned their name, so have "killer bees".

Do you keep "killer bees" in AZ? 

I use to live there when they first came up from Mexico. Ya they're killers!


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## NaturesResonance (Mar 8, 2017)

Green Tractor said:


> I'd love to see your first-hand experience handing AFB colonies and getting them to act gentle and produce like commercially significant races of bees. Drop some YouTube videos of you handling known AFB sites and show us the way.
> 
> I tend my hives with shorts, t-shirts and sometimes without a hood. You say you can demonstrate the same with AFB. Please...demonstrate. Until then few here are going to do much more than wonder if your true hobby is distilling and consuming fuel-grade 'shine out back.


This looks like a pretty productive hive to me!
Abelhas Africanizadas, mel, honey bee, African bees
https://youtu.be/VaLcq-KCoSQ


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## dlbrightjr (Dec 8, 2015)

NaturesResonance.

I keep trying to remind myself you can't possibly be serious. However, now I'm curious. What is your experience with bees? How many hives and how many years? Troy from Arkansas keeps giving you what appears to be both credible and good information. Are you going to take him up in his offer to get some hands on experience with "Africanized bees"? I can't imagine your the least bit serious. Any chance you will video yourself doing a large cutout of those bees for us?


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## Hillbillybees (Mar 3, 2016)

We do 48 colonies to a yard. Yard after yard. Can you imagine all AFB. Talk about dreading your job. I wonder what the Workmens Comp rate would be on my employees? Turnover in help would be unbelievable. Its just not viable. I love the production of the AFB as well as the varroa resistance but its just not worth it.


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## NaturesResonance (Mar 8, 2017)

Hillbillybees said:


> You flying up to them and hovering? Using your cloaking device suit from MannLake? Popping up out of the ground? Tip Toeing? Low Crawl? Camouflage? Dressing in your new "don't sting me I'm a queen bee" suit? Wearing "I Love Bees" pin after you teach them to read? It all sounds ridiculously easy to me.
> Daniel Beebe, Beebe's Pest Control in the valley. He will let you come and get bees for free. He has at least 20 trucks and says he averages 2 to 5 bee calls per truck a week. None of the other beekeepers want them. He has tried that. Call him and tell him Troy from Arkansas told you about him. All the AFB you want for free. 28 foot ladder plus 25000 bees and your training will have started. Let us know how it turns out.


Don't bee a goof. I have a bee suit.


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## Schultz (Mar 9, 2015)

AFB is "American Foul Brood" AHB is "Africanized Honey Bees". I had an uncle that quit smoking and started chewing toothpicks until they finally killed him. The autopsy report said he died from "Dutch Elm Disease".


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## NaturesResonance (Mar 8, 2017)

Hillbillybees said:


> Natures is a new beekeeper that wants to propagate AFB. He says he can train them to be gentle. He wants to put them on national forest, blm and state land. He does not want to change out queens or any other sort of controls that have proven effective to hot hives. He wants to try to manage hot hives in public places. He expects no liability if they hurt someone. He believes he can handle the swarming issue of the hot hives. He cannot be told anything because he has it all figured out. I raised bees in Buckeye Arizona in the late seventies. AFB was barely getting a foothold. I did it as an FFA project with 12 hives. Six miles away a man on a tractor was almost killed by a hive in an ironwood tree over a hundred yards from where he was driving a tractor. I finished with the bees when I joined the Marine Corp and sold them. I started again in 2011. I enjoy the bees. No one enjoys hot hives. Not even NaturesResonance. Maybe when he has a few hundred on his veil and a dozen or so in his suit the many posts he has had trying to help him will "resonate" with him then. We can hope.


"AFB" didn't even reach the states until well into the 80's. Your man on a tractor was almost killed by the so-called calm and safe "EHB". You can see the irony in that, I hope.


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## NaturesResonance (Mar 8, 2017)

Schultz said:


> AFB is "American Foul Brood" AHB is "Africanized Honey Bees". I had an uncle that quit smoking and started chewing toothpicks until they finally killed him. The autopsy report said he died from "Dutch Elm Disease".


:applause: LOL


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## trapperdirk (Nov 3, 2013)

I've never heard of a cop killing a Dachshund because it was being aggressive. I've never heard of people banning them because they're so dangerous. It's just sensationalism. Nothing sensational about a Dachshund attack. They look too cute to be scary. You can't sell that story.[/QUOTE]

Your reply proves my point!!!!!!!! I said nothing about which breed of dog bites more than another. I pointed out that there are differences​.
Petey on "Our Gang" (Little Rascals) was a pit bull and I've met plenty of them that are great. I've also had to shoot one that attacked a little girl and her dog. I've never had to shoot a daschound. Good thing they aren't as big and powerful as some other breeds.

My premise stands that there are differences​ in aggressive behavior based on genetic disposition/breed. 

It's the same in cattle as well. 

Ask some of the southern boys how they like working stock with Brahma in them.


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## dlbrightjr (Dec 8, 2015)

How about it? What is your actual experience with bees, Africanized bees, bulldogs, and toothpicks? Do you even have bees? Other than the internet what experience do you have? I'm not saying you don't. Just wondering what it is.


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## DanielD (Jul 21, 2012)

Schultz said:


> I had an uncle that quit smoking and started chewing toothpicks until they finally killed him. The autopsy report said he died from "Dutch Elm Disease".


I knew I couldn't trust them. He stimulated them by bearing his teeth though.


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## NaturesResonance (Mar 8, 2017)

FlowerPlanter said:


> Pit bulls have earned their name, so have "killer bees".
> 
> Do you keep "killer bees" in AZ?
> 
> I use to live there when they first came up from Mexico. Ya they're killers!


The post isn't about me keeping highly defensive bees. The post about dispelling the propaganda that has been a defamation of character. I've heard everything from, "they don't or can't pollinate-to they can't produce as much honey" An "africanized" bee is just another way of saying, mutt. Do people call a pug with a little pitbull in their genetics, "pitbullized"? No! That's just sensationalism at work. It's a bunch of propaganda against a breed. It's prejudice, and ignorance at it's best.


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## Gumpy (Mar 30, 2016)

Schultz said:


> AFB is "American Foul Brood" AHB is "Africanized Honey Bees". I had an uncle that quit smoking and started chewing toothpicks until they finally killed him. The autopsy report said he died from "Dutch Elm Disease".


They just used the phonetic three letter acronym: DED


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## dlbrightjr (Dec 8, 2015)

NaturesResonance said:


> The post isn't about me keeping highly defensive bees. The post about dispelling the propaganda that has been a defamation of character. I've heard everything from, "they don't or can't pollinate-to they can't produce as much honey" An "africanized" bee is just another way of saying, mutt. Do people call a pug with a little pitbull in their genetics, "pitbullized"? No! That's just sensationalism at work. It's a bunch of propaganda against a breed. It's prejudice, and ignorance at it's best.


Do you keep any bees? Are you a PR representative for Africanized bees? Are you a bee researcher? Are you an advocate for Africanized bee rights? Have you every seen a bee? Just what is your experience? Do you have any credibility? Are you already registered here under another identity? Are you dodging the questions?


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## NaturesResonance (Mar 8, 2017)

trapperdirk said:


> I've never heard of a cop killing a Dachshund because it was being aggressive. I've never heard of people banning them because they're so dangerous. It's just sensationalism. Nothing sensational about a Dachshund attack. They look too cute to be scary. You can't sell that story.


Your reply proves my point!!!!!!!! I said nothing about which breed of dog bites more than another. I pointed out that there are differences​.
Petey on "Our Gang" (Little Rascals) was a pit bull and I've met plenty of them that are great. I've also had to shoot one that attacked a little girl and her dog. I've never had to shoot a daschound. Good thing they aren't as big and powerful as some other breeds.

My premise stands that there are differences​ in aggressive behavior based on genetic disposition/breed. 

It's the same in cattle as well. 

Ask some of the southern boys how they like working stock with Brahma in them.[/QUOTE]

I can agree that a certain genetic predisposition to be more defensive, may exist. 

Does it mean we should castrate all those Brahma bull's or Scutellata queen's?


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## dlbrightjr (Dec 8, 2015)

Are you just lonely?


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## NaturesResonance (Mar 8, 2017)

dlbrightjr said:


> Do you keep any bees? Are you a PR representative for Africanized bees? Are you a bee researcher? Are you an advocate for Africanized bee rights? Have you every seen a bee? Just what is your experience? Do you have any credibility? Are you already registered here under another identity? Are you dodging the questions?


Stay on topic dlbrightjr. This topic isn't about me.


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## dlbrightjr (Dec 8, 2015)

NaturesResonance said:


> Stay on topic dlbrightjr. This topic isn't about me.


Cute. The topic does not appear to be about anything you know or have experience with either. Sorry. After asking seriously about your knowledge of the topic I was just having fun. Thanks.


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## Slow Drone (Apr 19, 2014)

A couple of years ago a friend of mine emailed me some pics of him doing hive inspections. I convinced him to post the pics here on Beesource so Gary did. Use the search engine and type in African hive inspection it will show you what could be in the future for you. Gary lives in South Africa and presently is a commercial beekeeper he said there are some that are docile but they are extremely rare and are not found in any of the areas he works. He has also told me it is next to impossible to work them without getting ate up the protection only reduces the number of times he is stung. If you are concerned about being stung rest assured it's inevitable keep that in mind.


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## jbuzz (Jan 27, 2015)

Wow! They must be impossible to work.


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## rolftonbees (Jul 10, 2014)

Call them what you will, but there are bees that have at least in part the genetics of a different sub species.

Varieties within a species can have selected traits that set them apart from other varieties.

This is not imagined,its not a matter of semantics, its a matter of biology, heritance, genetics, gene expression.

Dogs vary from Chihuahuas, to Great Danes within the same species. A daschund can pull a badger from a burrow, but would do poorly in a fighting pit. A pomeranian would never fair well against a pit bull, regardless of how they were trained.

Temperament, and physical traits were both breed into each dog breed. It is not a mystery that pitbulls may be associated with more maulings than many other breeds. 

To pretend all dogs are blank slates to be written upon by their owners is foolish and denies the reality of biology, physics and so many other disciines of science.

Bees are no different. Some bees were selected to have inconvenient traits, by nature, man, or some combination.

Comparing bees to inannimate objects, like toothpicks beyond a simple analogy seems silly. But sure ill bite, perhaps bees, dogs and even people can be a dumb as a box or rocks or toothpicks.


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## Learning2Bee (Jan 20, 2016)

The AHB can be worked. (Not easily)
The AHB does seem to produce a substantial amount of honey.
The AHB does show resistance to the varroa mite. (So do my local survivors)
All agree? Cool.

It also is terrible to work.
It has killed people.
Multiple stings seems to be inevitable.

Nonetheless, with the varroa resistance, temperament, production, and buildup of my local survivors it is *completely out of the question* for me to deal with the AHB. This goes for a _lot_ of people here.

So what exactly is it that you want?
You want to come and say you'll propagate a successful, and gentle line of AHB?
You want *us* to keep it for you?
You want us to call it by its proper name?

Well, maybe I should refer to my Italians as my Apis Mellifera Ligustica and my Carnis as my Apis Mellifera Carnica. Well that's ridiculous.

Talk the talk walk the walk.


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

don't feed the troll


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## jonsl (Jul 16, 2016)

Agreed, there's enough well fed trolls out there.


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## DavidZ (Apr 9, 2016)

McBlain again...


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## dlbrightjr (Dec 8, 2015)

shinbone said:


> don't feed the troll


Sorry. I was bored and he was there. I couldn't help myself.


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## gruntworker (May 20, 2013)

NaturesResonance said:


> Stay on topic dlbrightjr. This topic isn't about me.


It seems like this topic may be about you. I shared my story with you on the last page. You can read and experience stories and watch videos but you don't know worst case. It is important that you have no hives as of yet. It is important because you open a thread about sensationalizing hybrid bees with a degree of ignorance and when people tell you the danger is real you argue. It isn't about are ability to argue. Bees are not dogs, they are not bears, or cats and they kill more people each year than any animal in America. 

I'll give you a sensational story and pray that it never happens. You gain permission to place your hives in a forest but because of your teaching job you haven't been out to your hives in two weeks. You return to your somewhat feisty hive and discover there are now 12000 more bees. The temperament of these bees has now drastically changed. When you take a peak inside 500 bees instantly fly out to meet you and they aren't ramming you. They are searching for holes in your suit or a slit in the duck tape you have wrapped around your ankles. You, however, remain calm and close the hive and walk off. Although you are surprised by the defensiveness you decide to come back that night and take care of things. The bees are still on you in surprising numbers even a quarter mile from the hive but things will work out. Then you hear it. The sound of hikers going towards your hives. Sensational... yes... But just one little girl gets stung or one dog killed by your bees and your world will change.

You seem like a reasonably intelligent man. You choice of topic and manner of debate seems smug enough to make you dangerous. Please buy a couple Italian hives find some land and have fun with bees. As a man that teaches myself I notice people tend to choose the career to help other people. I teach math in a high school and at a community college. It really isn't about the math. It's about people. I would like you to enjoy this hobbie. It is a hobbie I assume. You don't want to jump into even a single nasty hive without the joy of keeping your choice of non aggressive bee. Table this topic, get some real and fun experience and then form an opinion. Your first nasty hive may completely blow your mind. Or perhaps you will shock the world. I find that most people who tend hybrid bees don't create topics about their virtues and mistreatment by the press/general population.


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## NaturesResonance (Mar 8, 2017)

It's a subspecies of its own. It deserves a name of its own. Not a name that implies that it's a murderous insect. 
The name, "Killer bee" is just ridiculous. "Africanized" isn't really a name either but rather a description of its native origin. It's not like they call any subspecies "Italianized" because that's not a name, it's just a description. 
Kerr never named his crossbreed. I think he needs to come up with a proper name...


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## gruntworker (May 20, 2013)

DavidZ said:


> McBlain again...


If it is he writes differently but you may be write as the former stopped posting just before this man started posting.


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## NaturesResonance (Mar 8, 2017)

Gruntworker, 
Thanks for the constructive criticism. Truthfully, I don't know exactly how I'll manage yet. I do know I want to remain open minded to all possibilities. I may seem to take it with a lackadaisical attitude but I know it's a big responsibility, as well. I appreciate the worst case scenario too. I play a similar game on the ambulance. I get my partners to play the "what if game" with me. Preparing for the unexpected disaster is something I put into practice. I've been scouting for apiary sites. I'm even considering the proximity to hiking trails as a factor.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

When you go out to find a bee yard make sure there are no Africanized honey bees nearby from the DCAs. Because you cannot
change the local bee genetics anymore than nature can, you just have to live with these aggressive bees. Ever since I got my
2-ply ventilated kangaroo brand bee suit I have never been stung. Maybe it is time that you invest in one to protect yourself and 
others nearby. The last time I check there are still aggressive feral bees in AZ and that will not likely to change for another 100 years or so.
Good luck on your bee adventure this season!


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

NaturesResonance said:


> Statistically, pitbulls bite less frequently than Dachshund's. https://petolog.com/articles/most-aggressive-dogs.html


In your opening post you say dog aggression is not so much about genetics, more about "response to stimuli".

But in your post quoted here, you say that statistically some breeds do in fact bite more than others. 

Which means of course, it's genetic.

In addition the article you have linked states "Any dog can bite. But some dogs do it much more frequently than other breeds".

It would appear you have disproved yourself.


I'll give you another way to figure this out. Get a hive of nice gentle italians put down one end of your yard. Get a hive of africans and put down the other end. See which one responds most to the "stimuli" of you opening them in shorts and tee shirt.


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## DavidZ (Apr 9, 2016)

gruntworker said:


> . You gain permission to place your hives in a forest but because of your teaching job you haven't been out to your hives in two weeks.


I can say this he lies about putting bee in the Natl Forest in AZ, The USFS won't allow Apiaries on the land except for the 17 already taken apiary sites. To apply a new one it costs over $1000 to get the permitting started and then they won't even say if you can use the land. or even guarantee you that they will ok your use of any spots in the AZ USFS, and then once the process starts it takes 5yrs to get ok'd. I went through the whole process with the USFS last summer and laughed when I hit the $5000.00 cash wall
If he has his bees in the forest then it's on private land.


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## devil dog (Jul 1, 2014)

NaturesResonanse...still waiting to hear how many colonies you manage and how long you have been keeping bees?

On another note...it sounds like my colonies are guilty of benefitting from European Honey Bee Privilege.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

I'm sure some recall NR's previous thread where he/she kicked off half-baked philosophical statements regarding AHB. In that thread, it quickly became obvious that there was zero beekeeping experience, let alone AHB experience. It continues here, but now with a new twist, painting the behavior of insects and mammals with the same brush. I walk away from this thread with the feeling that in addition to no beekeeping experience, he probably doesn't even own a dog... NR, if you can't/won't post images of you working your AHB hives, then PLEASE at least post a picture of you with your pitbull.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

This thread is very reminiscent of another not long ago : Africanized bees are fake.


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## Colobee (May 15, 2014)

It barely merits the time wasted to concur that it is a waste of time.

"I've _read _that AHB are.. blah, blah, blah..." 

"*Having not kept them*... let me propose some (totally inexperienced) nonsense regarding how to keep them"


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Of the thousands of people who post on Beesource, the occasional one pops up who is a "one issue" person. A few years ago there was one who only talked neonicitinoids, and was all over the site with it. Till he kind of was shown the door.

Some of the most extreme views also come from folks who haven't got started yet, or they have got started but not long enough to have opened their hive more than a few times or learned anything real.


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## brettj777 (Feb 27, 2013)

NaturesResonance said:


> The post isn't about me keeping highly defensive bees. The post about dispelling the propaganda that has been a defamation of character. I've heard everything from, "they don't or can't pollinate-to they can't produce as much honey" An "africanized" bee is just another way of saying, mutt. Do people call a pug with a little pitbull in their genetics, "pitbullized"? No! That's just sensationalism at work. It's a bunch of propaganda against a breed. It's prejudice, and ignorance at it's best.


What he is saying is that he has ZERO experience but would like you to take him seriously. Ignorance is on full display here....but its the OP that has teh best work.


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

30+ years ago there was an effort to select mild tempered Scutellata in Africa. I've seen evidence that Africanized bees respond to selection. With time, all bees in the U.S. will exhibit some level of Africanization. Put these disparate thoughts together and the conclusion is that we will have to breed from Africanized lines and develop mild tempered bees. It will be a long term effort. I don't think NR has the know how or the gumption to do the selection and breeding work required.

As a reminder, Steve Taber had pure Scutellata in Louisiana in the 1940's. They were not well enough adapted to handle the climate and eventually the queens were gotten rid of. Africanized bees are genetically far different from pure Scutellata in that they appear to be able to survive and thrive in more diverse climates.


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## msl (Sep 6, 2016)

For whatever reason they tamed down in PR
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psBomn2cPNw
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3492899/


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## Green Tractor (Mar 31, 2016)

NaturesResonance said:


> I never claimed I could tend to them in shorts and a T-shirt. That's just stupid! Illiterate bushmen have been tending African bees for a very long time. Besides, define "AFB" for us. Define "commercially significant" while you're at it. Did you even read the top post? Try to be a little more objective and less subjective.
> 
> managing african bees
> https://youtu.be/dAZ0thZEypw


You caught me, bro. I mis-typed a single letter of an acronym. The "F" should have been an "H", and as a result everything else was wrong, too. That's what I get for reading about AFB right before stumbling into your monologue.

It take it all back. You should _absolutely_ find as many AHB hives as you can, and work them to death*.

* Just an expression, mind you.


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## Richard Cryberg (May 24, 2013)

There is exactly one thing that needs to be done with agressive bees that can not generally be worked in a tee shirt. They need to be treated with cyanide. If the owner refuses to do this the state should do it for him and if hive placement endangers the public maybe giving the owner six months in the cooler to think about it will clear his head.


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## BadBeeKeeper (Jan 24, 2015)

Hillbillybees said:


> Natures is a new beekeeper that wants to propagate AFB. *He says he can train them to be gentle.*


Going to have to spend an awful lot of time training, when your critters only live for six weeks. Funny stuff. Get out there with a whip and a chair with every round of new brood hatch?


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

Was feeling a bit bad and ashamed about some of the smart-allecky posts I've made the past couple days...AND THEN I FOUND THIS THREAD.
Haw haw haw.

Killer toothpicks. Love it!

Don't blame the breed.


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## lharder (Mar 21, 2015)

Fusion_power said:


> 30+ years ago there was an effort to select mild tempered Scutellata in Africa. I've seen evidence that Africanized bees respond to selection. With time, all bees in the U.S. will exhibit some level of Africanization. Put these disparate thoughts together and the conclusion is that we will have to breed from Africanized lines and develop mild tempered bees. It will be a long term effort. I don't think NR has the know how or the gumption to do the selection and breeding work required.
> 
> As a reminder, Steve Taber had pure Scutellata in Louisiana in the 1940's. They were not well enough adapted to handle the climate and eventually the queens were gotten rid of. Africanized bees are genetically far different from pure Scutellata in that they appear to be able to survive and thrive in more diverse climates.


I essentially believe this. The detailed genetic work necessary to see how much infiltration hasn't happened yet. Those mitochondrial determinations can be thrown out the window.


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