# Using Cottonwood for Bee Boxes



## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

Has anyone ever used Cottonwood for making Bee Boxes, Bottom Boards etc? Last week I acquired (free for moving it) about 600 feet of Cottonwood boards, 10 ft, planed 2 sides to 7/8. I searched the Woodworking 
Forums and found that it is used for pallets, flooring in low boys, and with proper paint, decks, fences etc. Of course no mention of Bee Boxes.

I made a Square Hive using the Cottonwood, and some Cypress I had. Several had been talking about Square Hives on another thread. I also made 4 nucs from the Cottonwood. Plan to paint them and use them in the Spring. Anyone have any info on use for Bee Hives.

Here is the link to my photobucket acct if you would like to see what the cottonwood Square Hive and Nucs look like. Also on the page is Square Hive made from Cypress. Both are pretty wood and work well.

Any info or experience with Cottonwood.

http://s841.photobucket.com/albums/zz339/cchoganjr/

cchoganjr


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## millerwb (Oct 31, 2011)

I would think that it would work fine. If I had been given 600 bf of wood, I would be a building machine making hives and frames.


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

Cottonwood does tend to make fuzz instead of saw dust. I would be happy with 600 board feet of lumber no matter what kind of lumber it happened to be. Have fun 

Edit: Those boxes (nucs) would look nice if you dipped them


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## honeyman46408 (Feb 14, 2003)

rwurster said:


> I would be happy with 600 board feet of lumber no matter what kind of lumber it happened to be.


Cheap is good FREE is better:banana:


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

It seemes that I just happen to be at the right place at the right time. Last summer a man in Arkansas, (John Howard, operates a saw mill) contacted me and said he would sell me 700 ft of cypress, (rough cut, 13 inch boards by 1 inch thick) for 50 cents a board foot, plus 1 Nuc of bees. Of course I had to go get it, but it was worth it. In the photos on Photobucket, three of the photos of the Square Hive is made of cypress. It is beautiful lumber. I am building deeps, and Nucs with it.

I posted on another topic, I get a lot of free lumber. I get lots of 1 X 12 from roofing contractors. All short pieces but they work great. A local school, and a local store closed and I got the shelving from them. They were going to throw them away, so I got them for removing them. Also, 3 local lumber yards save me their contractor bring-backs, and culls. I throw a lot away, but I get a lot of short pieces from them. Check from time to time, I often get wood that has been rained on. Let it dry out good and it works. I agree with honeyman46408 Cheap is good, BUT free is even better,

cchoganjr


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

honeyman46408 said:


> Cheap is good FREE is better:banana:


Cheap and free can also be a poor value sometimes. I made these western covers out of thick cedar pallet type lumber and regret it. The wood is so unstable the t&g joints open up 1/4" and the paint won't stick. Some started rotting after 2 years.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

You are very right and that was my reason for requesting comments on cottonwood for bee hives. I'm going to try a few nucs and the one square hive I built today, but, unless I get some favorable comments, I may just wait a year or so and see what happens. It isn't going to hurt anything just stacked in my barn.

cchoganjr


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

Actually cottonwood and the soft woods (hack berry being one) start to sort of oxidate on their own if they are stored a year. (this is per the guy who runs the tree service near me, discussing what will and won't store as firewood.) I'd see if paint will stick to it. Build one box, paint, see how it performs, stands up to weather. Painted or sealed in a wax dip, or some kind of oil dip, it might not do the warping that it would if it is shrinking and expanding in response to environmental moisture. 

Gypsi


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

Gypsi... This has already been stored about 10 years. It is super, super, dry. That is my plan. I have made the 4 nucs and the one square hive I posted above, which I will paint and use next year and see how it works out. If no good, well, all I will have wasted is about 2 hours work, loading and unloading, and restacking it.

The only problem I had in making the nucs and square hive was two of the fingers on the box joints chipped off a little on the end. It is very hard, and when I planed it to 3/4 it is glass smooth. I did not get the fuzz that the wood working Forums said is common with cottonwood. 

We'll see what happens. I am just not familiar with cottonwood. First time I ever heard of it.

cchoganjr


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

I made a baseball bat out of a cottonwood limb when I was in high school for a project to aquaint myself with lathe measurement tools etc.
not necessarily for baseball. I remember all the fuzz it made when I ripped it. I remember also that the weeping willow I turned on the lathe smelled so horrible when I sanded it I almost got chased out of the shop. Time will tell on those boxes.


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## Gypsi (Mar 27, 2011)

if it cured and didn't "lighten" it might be ok. Cottonwood isn't one of the trees I was investigating. It got its name from the seed pods which are carried on the breeze with their cotton-looking parachutes. The southern version of the poplar I believe, certainly the leaves are similar. Which my grandfather called the "popal" tree.

That wood may be excellent: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populus_sect._Aigeiros


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

I won't say if it is worth it or not. But I wll tell you about Cottonwood and what that means for the probable quality of the wood.
Cottonwood trees are one of the fastest growing trees there are. They can grow to maturity in as little as 10 years and can have a life span as short as 20 years. I have personally sen cotton woods that grow as much as 6 to 7 feet per year with a mature height of 20 feet that means they can grow to full size in as little as three years. Without going into to much detail I will say that fast growth is in no way good. In same ways you would be better off making hives from wax soaked cardboard. Fast growth equals week punky wood. There is a reason you don't hear about things being made of cottonwood.
Now wether you should make hives from free cottonwood. That is for you to answer. Just don't expect much from it if you do. that way you will not be disappointed. IF it does better than I suspect. well that is a bonus.
To give you some sort of reference. Pine is not one of the better woods for longevity and the tree can take 100 years or more to grow to maturity. Redwood would be a top of the line wood for resistance and can take 2000 years or more to grow. So that sort of gives you an idea of the scale from 1 to 10. I think I woudl take the wood and make a bunch of nucs to resell out of it. Sell em cheap.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Daniel Y: What you say seems perfectly logical but I do think there is a different dynamic in play with well cured cottonwood and the only real evidence I have of this is the basement of an older home I was at once helping with a project, the homeowner pointed out to me that all the floor joists were cottonwood. He said that it's difficult to even drive a nail into it and he was right. They were full cut 2" and were remarkably straight and true.


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## windfall (Dec 8, 2010)

faster growth has little relation to strength and is only weakly related to longevity. Black locust grows incredibly fast and is one of our hardest strongest timbers...and it is near rot proof. 

Cottonwood is one of the few species native around here I have not knowingly worked with. The stability and strength specs should be available from the US forest product labs.
I would be concerned with it's durability. I have never seen a cottonwood log on the ground for more than a year or two that wasn't loaded with rot. Spruce and white pine, which are rated as only marginally rot resistant fare much much better.


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## Mr. C (Oct 27, 2011)

I think I now have a vested interest in this discussion as I have a cottonwood on the corner of my property that needs to come down soon probably (multiple lightning strikes have done some work in the top of the tree). I don't know if there are different varieties here in the North, but 20ft is by no means maturity around here. This tree is over 3foot in diameter and over 100 feet tall. Theres another across the street from me that is a little narrower and just as tall. It snows every summer by my house because of these two trees. Very different from the popolar trees that grow nearby (leaves are somewhat similar, but bark and size is a hugely different. If cottonwood amounts to anything I will get that tree sawn. I don't even want to make a guess how many board feet are in that tree if it's sawable.

I


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## Mr. C (Oct 27, 2011)

Just read the wiki entry on it, not looking that promising, I burn wood, but apparently the BTU rating is terrible and the wood is mostly used for cheap pallets etc. Oh well, might still be worth sawing just because it doesn't burn well.


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## Daddy'sBees (Jul 1, 2010)

Nice work cchoganjr !!! I really like the nice work you have done on the hand holds. I wish mine were as clean. I have the finger joints down, but I can't get the hand holds to look as clean. Guess I don't have the right tools or secrets yet.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

Thanks Everyone, for the comments. A year from now we will have a better idea if Cottonwood is any good. I have made 4 nucs, 1 Square Hive, and I plan to build 4 regular Langs, (all with bottom boards), paint them, put bees in them in April, and see what they look like this time next year. If they don't last, well, nothing ventured, nothing gained or lost. The wood was free, and this time of year I have lots of time to do the things I really enjoy doing.

Daddy's Bees......Others wanting to make Hand Holds... I have given the secret to anyone who wants it. If you want to make nice professional looking "D" type commercial hand holds, using a Skil Saw and a very simple jig you can build yourself at home, Beesource has my Hand Hold Instructions to build the jig, in their " MAKE IT YOURSELF LIBRARY" (Thank Barry for getting it posted).. Just go to Beesource Home Page, click on Make it Yourself, then click on Hand Hold. They have the link posted to my YouTube Video that shows you how it is done. If you still need info, don't hesitate to contact me at [email protected] and I will walk you through it. And, all of this is free, My favorite price.

cchhoganjr


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## Myron Denny (Sep 27, 2009)

One of our neighbors cut two cottonwood trees from our farm in 1947, they had the logs sawed into 2 x 6" & 1 x 12" , they built a dairy barn with this lumber. This barn is still standing and still looks good!
Myron Denny
Glencoe Okla


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## Grant (Jun 12, 2004)

I've not had cottonwood to build bee boxes, but on the family farm in southern Minnesota (Glenville), several buildings were built with locally produced cottonwood. The slabs were rough cut, clear of knots, apparently easy to work with...but easily chewed by rats and mice.

We tore down some of the buildings, and being genetically frugal, the wood was saved and stacked inside for further use. The wood was incredibly light and straight...not warped. We kept talking of having the wood planed to make it conformable to conventional sizes but that day never came. Dad finally got tired of looking at it and burned the stack.

If I had it available in planed board sizes, I'd have no hesitation of using it.

Grant
Jackson, MO


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

I had to have one of our cotton woods removed 2 years ago, it was over 6 ft in diameter and about 70 feet tall. The problems we have with them is that they tend to rot out in the center of the trunks and branches then they break during windstorms. This variety is outlawed in town because of the 'cotton' it produces when it drop seeds. I have limited experience with it but if anything it would probably make some decent top bars.


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## smoke (Jan 17, 2006)

I purchased some old barn wood to cover the exterior of a rustic shed. I was looking for aged oak however what I found available was cottonwood. It is aged, feathery textured on the exterior surface and apparently about 90 years old per the farm's owner. Does not appear to ever have been painted/sealed. The claim is that there was a lot of cottonwood used on barn exteriors around the turn of the century here in central Missouri. This batch was all still in very good condition after all that time - no cracks. It was installed vertically of course which I feel might make a difference in durability.


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## honeyman46408 (Feb 14, 2003)

*UPDATE??

*Cleo any update on how it held up? I had a nice 1x12+ in my hand at a local saw mill I found through one of our keeps and was giong to buy it but with all the talk that went I forgot to get it opcorn:


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

honeyman46408 said:


> *UPDATE??
> 
> *Cleo any update on how it held up?


honeyman46408...Others... So far GREAT. I have used about 800 board feet, everything from bottom boards to side rails for tops. Made several 5 frame nucs and put them out unpainted. I painted all the other items with 2 coats of exterior latex barn white paint. 

The only less than desired result was 2, 5 frame nuc tops. I used a 9 inch board, for a migratory top, and both of them warped a little, but, most 9 inch boards would warp some regardless of the wood they were made from. I made several square deeps and square shallows. No different from those made from pine or poplar. How long they will last is still an open question. But, first year I see no difference from any other wood.

I am in Florida for a month and operating off a laptop with very, very, poor internet service. I will see if I can attach a photo of three of the cottonwood nucs. 









I don't know that I would search for cottonwood, but, if it came along, cheap, (or in my case FREE), I would not hesitate to use it. Works well on saw, making box joints, and the rabbet, and planes well also. I did not experience the so call (fuzz) that people talked about. In my case the cottonwood had been strip stacked, air dried for at least 10 years.

cchoganjr


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

Cottonwoods just like Poplars grow really fast. Fast growing trees produce "Weak" wood. This causes multiple issues for woodworkers and even more for carpenters. Beekeeprs fall in the woodworkers category and the strength and structural issues are not a concern. Even as far as the woodworking issues go the list of concerns for a beekeeper is very short. for the msot part we are concerned that.
1. the wood retains it's shape. more importantly that a box remains a box.
2. that the wood rill remain sound for a reasonable amount of time. This means no cracking. splitting, premature rotting.

Fast growing wood will fail mainly int he rotting area. Faster growth larger growth rings more of the punky summer growth in the rings. this wood does not stand up as well as the harder winter growth wood. Keep it will protected and it will do a reasonable job. but let the paint chip and peel and you may see the boxes deteriorate quickly.

In all beekeepers are not looking for great performance and top of the line craftsmanship in the first place. SO what we produce and how we make it reduces the longevity of our equipment as much or more than the choice of wood. It is a wooden box we intend to leave out in the rain. That is the reality. Equipment takes a beating. Nothing will change that. so there is no need to go buy top dollar lumber and employ the latest and greatest techniques in production. Wood left outside is going to deteriorate. Thin wood in small boxes filed with insects that then pack it with water laden fluid. Wood really is not the most suitable material for that job in the first place. it is commonly available, priced low enough that people are not choosing something else and traditional.

One thing I do wonder. for those that make more than a few boxes. why something like this has not become more commonly used. keep in mind this is a higher priced version. It would allow you to assemble scraps into full size boards as well as edge join boards for use as covers and bottom boards. 
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=5710

Asking out of curiosity. have others tried this and found issues with it?


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## Mr. C (Oct 27, 2011)

I buy boards so the yield is pretty close and little pieces of scrap end up making splines and the like. I don't end up with much other than bits, strips, and sawdust leaving my shop, which I use for kindling wood and mulch. If I had a supply of cutoff etc I would consider it, but I don't so it's not worth it for me. I'm guessing that's true for a lot of people.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

Daniel Y ... Others... I have made lots of 5 frame nucs by glueing and joining 4 inch boards. Even if you were to get seperation between the boards, (the joint) the bees will propolize any cracks, and cracks are not all that bad. You could use biscuits, or dowel pins if you wanted them to totally stay together. Some of the best boxes for bees are those that should have been thrown away 10 years ago.

Quite often, 4 inch scrap boards are more available than 9 5/8 width. So, glue them together.

cchoganjr


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## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

Cottowood is what most Iowa and wisconsion barns were built from., beams and planking. straight grain, easy to work (yes fuzzy) and light and strong.... downside. terrrible for weather as that fuzz hold moisture.. KEEP IT PAINTED and it will last fine. I have several "old" boxes from other beeks that are cottonwood.


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## JohnHill88 (Dec 9, 2015)

gmcharlie said:


> Cottowood is what most Iowa and wisconsion barns were built from., beams and planking. straight grain, easy to work (yes fuzzy) and light and strong.... downside. terrrible for weather as that fuzz hold moisture.. KEEP IT PAINTED and it will last fine. I have several "old" boxes from other beeks that are cottonwood.


Any updates on the cottonwood beehive components? I'm a small beekeeping supplier in central IL and I have a source for cottonwood lumber. This is appealing to me because it's cost effective and is supposed to have very few knots compared to the pine I've been using. And being from the poplar family, it's also said to be long lasting.


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

consider building either Supers which are out 3 months a year or "frame holders"
I have some old boxes I place frames in, once and a while they are "emergency hives"
I store 100s of frames some with comb , inside with frames in protected would be fine.
Also under a tin roof the hives last lots longer, if you build some put them under a roof of some sort.
3 sided tractor shed works great.

Find a use, if you have bees there are several places to use wood.

GG


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