# One hive storing lots of honey, one not



## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

Individual colonies do things at their own pace. Move several frames of uncapped honey into the super to "bait" them up.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Different children thrive differently too.

It could be for all sorts of reason, why you don't see both colonies doing the same. Could be the less productive one had to replace its' queen for some reason, which would throw it off by the length of time it takes to make a queen, get her mated and get her to laying.

Instead of moving frames of honey, equalize the number of rames of brood between the two. If Hive A has 4 frames of brood and Hive B has 10 frames of brood, give Hive A 2 frames of brood from Hive B, giving Hive B 2 empty frames from Hive A. Then switch their locations, giving Hive A Hive B's field force. That should bring them more equally in line w/ each other.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

I am new this year also and have one hive that I consider strong. It also is not storing honey and is not willing to touch a med super I added about a month ago. I cannot be certain but my best guess is this strong colony is putting resources toward rearing brood rather than storing honey. Not sure just when they plant to get ready for winter but sure hope they plan to do so sooner or later.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

I am not in favor of balancing the hives, what for? If you have a boomer hive in the making you will loose it. Let the tug of war continue. One hive could start off with a bang at first and then a month later the other hive takes over. If you only had one hive you wouldn't be confused right now. You just proved my point that newbies that start off with two hives have no advantage over newbies that start with one hive.
Make believe one hive is your wife's and the other one is yours. Keep records if you like but don't do anything to either hive based on what you see in the other hive. Compare your records next season and believe you me they can be quite different for the same hive.
Yes, I am a newbie but I know what you are going through. Managing one or two hives is completely different than managing 500 hives. And that is not to say you can't learn a ton from those that are managing 500 hives but right now if you start meddling you will create a situation of more confusion.

Good luck with your bees.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

DanielY,
Is there anything available for them to forage on? Don't you have feeders on your bees? Thought I remembered reading that.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

" If you have a boomer hive in the making you will loose it."


No he won't. Not if he follows my directions. He will end up w/ two strong colonies.

"but right now if you start meddling you will create a situation of more confusion."

I don't see why that would be necassarily so. Just because that was your experience. Following my suggestions he will probably learn to manage his hives. Following your suggestions, what is there to learn, other than the fear of meddling? "Oh, I might become confused, or cause confusion. I'd better not do anything to try to improve my bees."

I guess it comes down to what you are keeping bees for. Just to have them? Or to enjoy them, learning how things work inside of those boxes? Getting two hives ready to make it through the winter perhaps? What's the goal?


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## Bleemus (Jul 10, 2012)

I would balance them. Your chances of losing the weaker hive over the winter if you don't is greater than the chance of losing your "boomer" if you do.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> Following your suggestions, what is there to learn, other than the fear of meddling? "Oh, I might become confused, or cause confusion. I'd better not do anything to try to improve my bees."


He will learn patience and the long term benefits there of for analyzing future problems. Doing what someone tells to do is a very slow learning curve because you are not thinking for yourself. He will be told to do opposite things from even the experts and learn nothing. Newbies need to observe not intervene, that takes patience.
What I have said is a road to success for almost anything new that you do, not just beekeeping. Speaking from many years of experience.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

I too, like most people, would try to equalize the colonies. 

71Corvette, trust your instinct. It seems to be better than some of the advice offered.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

> Your chances of losing the weaker hive over the winter if you don't is greater than the chance of losing your "boomer" if you do.





71Corvette said:


> Both hives appear to be healthy and thriving and now have two full deeps of brood, pollen and honey.


Weak hive?:scratch:

Don't think so. The weaker hive could make it through and the stronger hive could fizzle. He might learn that if he has patience.


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## beedeetee (Nov 27, 2004)

I don't equalize based on honey production, but I do based on brood production. I don't equalize (or much of anything else) when honey supers are on. I do it in the spring before supers go on and in the late summer or early fall before putting them to bed for the winter. 

My theory is that left alone 1/3 of hives will have great honey production, 1/3 will give you some and 1/3 will have issues and you won't get any or much honey. During the month before our flow starts is when I do most of my manipulation. Moving brood from hives that may swarm to hives that are slower. After honey supers go on, I really don't ever go into the brood area until the supers come off.

A weak hive in May is very different from a weak hive in August.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

If both colonies seem strong as the original poster said why equalize? Seems like the 'slow' colony may have some issues that need to be looked at maybe. What does the brood box look like? If they're honey bound they might be prepping to swarm or perhaps they're just turning their stores into brood that much faster since you think they're the stronger hive. They also just might need some coaxing up too, but like sqkcrk says, maybe they superceded recently or something happened to the queen and they're kind of in a holding pattern right now or they're backfilling the brood nest.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

71, i was in a similar situation with a hive of mine recently. i tried your original idea of putting a frame or two of drawn comb in the empty super. i don't know if that did the trick or not, but the bees went right to work on drawing out the remaining frames. this would be the easiest thing to try. 

nothing wrong with balancing the brood as suggusted. i did a lot of that last year and in doing so got a lot more comfortable with handling the bees. i have not done any balancing of brood this year, (i am self-imposing a quasi-quarantine on my hives), and have observed that they can lag behind, then catch up, and even pass each other up.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Acebird said:


> What I have said is a road to success for almost anything new that you do, not just beekeeping. Speaking from many years of experience.


So I guess when you learned to drive a car you just went out and bought one and sat in it until you figured out how to drive it, never taking direction from anyone?

Did you figure out how to tie your shoes all on nyour own w/out advice or instruction?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

71Corvette said:


> Would taking a frame of drawn comb and honey from the first hive and adding it to the second help stimulate the bees to work the super?
> 
> Thanks!


If they are in other ways equal, it might. But, I might put a frame of honey on each side of the super and one in the middle. But, only after equalizing the brood as mentioned before.


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## mmiller (Jun 17, 2010)

It is possible that the "boomer" hive is robbing the weak hive. Most likely though, just as has been stated above, just like people, some are strong and others are weak. I break up my weak hives and make nucs to winter. Each nuc gets a queen cell from a good strong queen.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

Mark, I live in a city so there is probably something around at all times. Just not a lot of it necessarily. I simply get the impression they are foraging but getting only enough to get by day to day. Yes I put sugar water back on them 5 days ago and they are taking a gallon a day. I will inspect tomorrow to see if I think I need to continue with the sugar or not. 

I see the chance that when you think the bees are doing well there would be a tendency to relax. When in reality a booming hive is under stresses of it's own. A hive with a lot of brood also has the burden of providing food for that brood. I guess my head is already geared to watch for signs of failing even when the bees are doing their best. Sort of like the saying "show me someone that never failed and I will show you someone that never really attempted anything". Bees could be most at risk when they appear to be improving or are doing the most.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I don't know that this is necassarily so DanielY. Generally honeybees rear the brood they can maintain. I would not call that stress anymore than the heart of a healthy person pumping blood isn't really under stress, is it? Undo stress? May not be a good comparison.

If your hive(s) is/are taking a gallon of syrup a day I can't imagine much foraging going on.


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## CaBees (Nov 9, 2011)

Question: if he balances the hives by putting frames from one to the other and vis versa, isn't he risking spreading disease one, and killing the queens(s), 2? I say this because going into the brood nest to steal frames is always risky and easy to roll a queen.

Also, isn't this a good way to determine what a strong hive is compared to a medium hive? (just by observing them both over time)?

I have 4 now and each are different, each in different stages. I feel I am learning so much more and don't agree newbees should only have one hive. We should recognize each are unique; but if you didn't have more then one to compare too, how would you know if yours are normal, exceptional or failing?


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

Mark, If activity at the entrance is correct I think the heat is shutting down any nectar that was out there. the number of bees flying dwindles each day with this hot spell.


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## CaBees (Nov 9, 2011)

I am new too but this would alert me that perhaps there is something wrong with the queen and I would open up the brood nest, take a look at some of the frames and the pattern of laying; plus just see if I can find the queen. (Which I would probably fail at!). But the issue could be a failing queen, a queen being superceded or a new queen being born.....

Definately would not take frames from this hive to put into the other but would consider stealing brood frames from the strong hive to put in this; realizing it would set the strong hive back a week or 2 as they recover the invasiveness of opening up the brood nest.

That would be my limited best guess....good discussion, would love to read more opinions....


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

CaBees said:


> Question: if he balances the hives by putting frames from one to the other and vis versa, isn't he risking spreading disease one, and killing the queens(s), 2? I say this because going into the brood nest to steal frames is always risky and easy to roll a queen.


Generally I would say no. Unless one is diseased. Then, of course, I would not recommend doing what I said before. But, since the situation described is one of two new hives, so disease is not very likely.

Proper manipulation of ones frames should keep nqueens from being rolled. Don't pull combs out of the center of the brood nest.

If there is as much difference between the two as it seems there is, then they already have a good example of a strong colony and weak colony.


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

Nosema Cerana

I know it sounds stupid but we are seeing it here. The foragers are just not doing the job. I would try to drench the weaker hive first and then follow the advice of evening out the hives in a few weeks, closer to fall once you are sure that the weaker hive is healthier. You have one producing hive, so take that to the bank.
Final piece of advice...check the varroa numbers. If cerana is involved, and if your varroa are at about 2+% you could be seeing some issues with hive health.
I know it says 1 000 000 spores per bee with noseam and 4% with varroa. But when you combine the two, those threshold numbers drop significantly. 
I recommend the drench method...remove honey supers and drench, replace in the morning. Allow them time to clean up the syrup mixture Drench 70cc over the bees in the brood boxes. do this for three weeks. Please, make sure your honey supers are off, make sure on the bees so they eat it and not store it. I like the kitchen turkey baster best...cheap and easy to clean. 
Another after thought, the hive which is weaker, did it have chalk brood earlier. This could account for lower forager numbers right now. A cycle being taken out by chalkbrood.

Oh I hate after post thoughts.
Nosema Cerana affects the gut differently than apis. The hive will not consume its food sources in the spring and fall when apparent. However, in the summer I have read that they will pack in the brood box because they think they are starving and need food. So far that seems to be what i am seeing


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

Ace...non intervention on a hive that is a poor do-er. That is like non intervention on a cow that is not doing well. Poor animal husbandry. Could face some stiff penalties for that if it were a cow. Why should it bee different if it were a hive?


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Some people consider water boarding a crime also. I think you know by now I would never douse my bees.


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

what is water boarding?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Now honeyshack. didn't we just talk about this?


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

aye we did. I sucummed. 
Mark Twain..forgive me!


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

SQKCRk wrote:

equalize the number of frames of brood between the two.

I agree, that is what we would do. The next step is to try and find out why they are not equal. Honeyshack has some good points, always be on the lookout for anything that abnormal, be it chalkbrood, or dry first day larvae. Record these observations, and see if they correlate with any later events.

We can speculate, and expectorate, all we wish, but until the OP returns with a full inspection report from both hives, we are just urinating into the wind.

Crazy Roland


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Oh Roland, you are so Crazy.


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

CR,
what you said reminds me of something. 
Just before the flow started we were in a dearth. About 2 weeks long. Most of the hives had enough stored dandi honey to get them through. A few however did not towards the end. This could be why the OP is seeing some drop in the one hive. I think it has something to do with some of my hives as well. Just something I forgot about until you mentioned dry larva. Thanks for the reminder


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

i was under the impression that both hives had two full deeps full of bees. it was just that one was drawing comb in a super and one was not. that difference alone would not make me want to disrupt the hives and transfer brood.

yes, more details about the composition of the two hives is needed to make a call. and then, as always, it would come down to individual preference as to what to try (if anything).

only time will tell if the doing, (or not doing) made a difference. and even then, it's hard to say for sure if any difference, (or no difference at all) can be attributed to to what was done (or not done). there's just a lot of variables when it comes to beekeeping.

hopefully though, and either way, the learning process will be advanced and it will be easier to make a decision the next time around.

excellent thread, thanks all for participating.


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## 71Corvette (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, I must say this thread has generated a lot more discussion than I expected. As I hate to see folks "urinating into the wind"  and speculating on my situation let me provide a bit of extra information. 

In both hives the brood boxes (2-10 frame deeps) are completely drawn out, packed with eggs, larvae and capped brood. The outer frame of each deep is essentially filled with honey. The brood pattern looks excellent and the hive has not swarmed (we've done inspections at 2 week cycles max and have always found eggs). Both hives appear to be similarly sized in population, but hive 2 is perhaps a bit larger. I've noticed that hive 2 has a greater tendency to have bunches of bees hanging out on the front porch in the evening - even when it's not particularly hot out. 

I conducted a mite count two weeks ago. Hive 1 had a mite count of 0 after 3 days. Hive 2 had a mite count of 25 - well below the treatment threshold. 

Hive 1 has taken to the super and has made lots of progress in the last two weeks. Hive 2 has literally made no progress.

We'll be doing a hive inspection tomorrow (it's been 2 weeks since we've been in) and we'll be sure to take some good notes during the inspection. I'll report back on what we find.


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

I would consider below threshold yes, but if there is something else going on, maybe not.
waiting on your inspection tomorrow
will be cool to see what's up


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

squarepeg said:


> i was under the impression that both hives had two full deeps full of bees. it was just that one was drawing comb in a super and one was not. that difference alone would not make me want to disrupt the hives and transfer brood.


Thank you very much.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

71Corvette said:


> (we've done inspections at 2 week cycles max and have always found eggs).


If you ask some experts they will tell you that every time you dig into the brood nest you upset the hive for one or two days. You live in Maine. My guess is your season is about 5 months long. If you dig into the brood nest every two weeks you will loose 24 days of development. That is almost a month.
There is not a person on this forum right now that can guarantee you which hive will make it to spring or if either will make it to spring. If you lose them both you can ask the experts why. I know what my answer will be right now.
Mark, or anybody else that has 500 hives does not dig into the brood nest every two weeks. Once you put the supers on give them your blessings, use holy water if you like, but let them do their thing. Come fall you can remove the supers and listen to a whole bunch more of intervention tactics for you to play with.


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## 71Corvette (Jan 2, 2012)

Acebird said:


> If you ask some experts they will tell you that every time you dig into the brood nest you upset the hive for one or two days. You live in Maine. My guess is your season is about 5 months long. If you dig into the brood nest every two weeks you will loose 24 days of development. That is almost a month.
> There is not a person on this forum right now that can guarantee you which hive will make it to spring or if either will make it to spring. If you lose them both you can ask the experts why. I know what my answer will be right now.
> Mark, or anybody else that has 500 hives does not dig into the brood nest every two weeks. Once you put the supers on give them your blessings, use holy water if you like, but let them do their thing. Come fall you can remove the supers and listen to a whole bunch more of intervention tactics for you to play with.


Sorry, but I'm not going more than two weeks between inspections. I recognize from your signature your into non-intervention beekeeping, but that's not my game. I'll give up a bit of honey production in trade for the peace of mind that all is well within my hive. With all of the challenges to the bees these days, as well as numerous reports of AFB in our area, I'm more comfortable checking out the hive. Besides, if I get in the hive only once or twice every few months, how the heck am I going to learn anything? There's no replacement for hands on experience...

Also, I wouldn't expect someone with 500 hives to get into each hive every two weeks - just not practical.

As noted in my previous post, we're doing a hive inspection today and tomorrow. I'll report back what we find! 

Thanks for the input everyone.


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## Goldprospector (May 17, 2012)

CaBees said:


> Also, isn't this a good way to determine what a strong hive is compared to a medium hive? (just by observing them both over time)?
> 
> I have 4 now and each are different, each in different stages. I feel I am learning so much more and don't agree newbees should only have one hive. We should recognize each are unique; but if you didn't have more then one to compare too, how would you know if yours are normal, exceptional or failing?


I am going to have to agree with "sqkcrk". His advice seems spot on to me. 
I can understand how anyone can feel that they are learning more by watching a hive develop at its own pace, But I do feel like some amount of intervention stretches the learng curve more.
All I am saying is that if you have 2,4, or 10 hives that are all progressing at differnet rates...then wouldn't it be nice to be able to make all of them as equal as possible so you can be more prepared to do the same thing to all of them at once?

I have seven hives right now. One hive in particular has done nothing but go gangbusters since it was started as a package on March 17 of this year...But including doing a split, I have remove 26 frames of brood from this hive to supplement other hives so they can "Catch up". This hive has also drawn out 2 shallow supers, so they have drawn out a total of 46 deep frames and 20 shallow frames and they are full of brood and bees. I recently started removing some super frames and donating them to other hives to encourge them to draw out more comb... Other hives that have not drawn out super frames...are now at least storing honey in the donated frames and are starting to make comb in the supers as well.

I would definetly rather have 7 hives that were equal due to my manipulations than 7 hives that are different so I have to make different decisions with each hive.
My meaning is, if I am going to feed, I would rather feed them all, If I am going to add a super, I would rather add it to all, ect.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Yes, we humans like things consistent. Bees are not consistent. And beekeepers are surely not consistent so the two should make a good team.



> Also, I wouldn't expect someone with 500 hives to get into each hive every two weeks - just not practical.


You think it is because it is not practical? I think it is because it is a waste of time and retards the colony. We are in July now not April.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Acebird said:


> If you ask some experts they will tell you that every time you dig into the brood nest you upset the hive for one or two days. You live in Maine. My guess is your season is about 5 months long. If you dig into the brood nest every two weeks you will loose 24 days of development. That is almost a month.
> There is not a person on this forum right now that can guarantee you which hive will make it to spring or if either will make it to spring. If you lose them both you can ask the experts why. I know what my answer will be right now.
> Mark, or anybody else that has 500 hives does not dig into the brood nest every two weeks. Once you put the supers on give them your blessings, use holy water if you like, but let them do their thing. Come fall you can remove the supers and listen to a whole bunch more of intervention tactics for you to play with.


Fear and loathing in beekeeping.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

71Corvette said:


> Also, I wouldn't expect someone with 500 hives to get into each hive every two weeks - just not practical.


Keep in mind that no one other than me knows how often I get into my hives, not even Acebird. I went thru all of my hives in the last 4 days.

Roland, Crazy Roland goes thru his hives every two weeks smushing drone brood. That's part of his mite control. 

So, it can be done. Just a matter of what one finds important.

Do what you think is best 71 and don't listen to the nay sayers.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

sqkcrk said:


> Do what you think is best 71 ...........


1+


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> Keep in mind that no one other than me knows how often I get into my hives, not even Acebird. I went thru all of my hives in the last 4 days.


That is beating around the bush. Tell us. Are you in every hive every two weeks or not From June to August?

Edit: By all means do what you think is best. Everyone should.


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## Bleemus (Jul 10, 2012)

If I don't use smoke and I just crack and tip back the top deep to look for swarm cells I have a hard time believing it sets the hive back two days. The bees just ignore me and I often watch queens laying eggs in cells as I hold the frame she is on. Hardly a setback don't you think?


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

other than to have to re-propilize, which couldn't be that much work, i'm not sure what set back there would be if the hive is put back in the same configuration.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

I have seen in several sources that inspecting the hive will put the queen off laying for as much as a week. the amount of time varies depending on the source of the information. When I first got my hive I was looking in it every other day. My observations of the brood may very well have confirmed this. at least to some variation of it. it appeared to me the queen might only be laying about every third day. Then again I have some members here say that might be normal and not a result of my opening of the hive frequently. later after I had added a second deep the queen moved up into what was then the area that was being disturbed every other day. So go figure about just what bothers a queen. She has eventually been pushed back down into the lower deep but not necessarily by her choosing.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Bleemus said:


> If I don't use smoke and I just crack and tip back the top deep to look for swarm cells I have a hard time believing it sets the hive back two days.


Probably doesn't but removing frames and putting frames of brood from another hive is more involved isn't it? Just taking the frames out and putting them back in the same order is more involved and more intrusive.
So you do this toward the end of July with supers on?


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

I've changed the way I do hive inspection. I don't go frame by frame anymore. I take out one or two frames from each box, find eggs, check brood pattern, cut drone comb out then put it all back. I tilt each box up and look underneath for swarm cells and that's it. I have my smoker lit on standby but rarely use it anymore. 

I'm starting to see that about half of the things I learned from "experienced" hobbyist beekeepers with 3 or 4 hives and beginner classes taught by same are not true or don't make any difference. The most true, relevant and cost effective techniques I've learned were from commercial beekeepers. I believe the more hives you have, the more problem you experience. The more problems you experience means you've learned more solutions. Especially if your lively hood depends on it.

I've seen better growth since I've changed the routine up. I think every new beekeeper needs to spend at least a day or two with a good commercial beekeeper. You can save yourself allot of heartache and money.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Ace wrote:

Mark, or anybody else that has 500 hives does not dig into the brood nest every two weeks.

SQKCRK is right, we inspect roughly every 14 days to smash drone brood as a mite control method. That ispection schedule has been used since the 40's. 

If it is so intrusive, why do our regular inspected large apiary hives as a rule vastly outperform the single hives that we have at friend's house's for pollination? 

I believe the OP is inspecting at an interval he is comfortable with, and would encourage him to continue in that manner. One advantage of a consistent method is that you can easily spot when a patte4rn is not correct, for example if the roof reads in succession;

OK,
No queen, see cell plus eggs,
See virgin, plus eggs.

If on the next inspection, you do not find a laying queen, something is wrong, and drastic measures must be taken.

Crazy as always Roland


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

How went the battle 71?


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## 71Corvette (Jan 2, 2012)

So we did our hive inspection today and we think we figured out what's going on. First off, both hives are full of bees - probably about equal population wise.

Here's the breakdown of what we found in each hive:

*Hive No. 1 
*
2 deep brood boxes with 8 frames open brood, 5 frames capped brood, 3 frames honey, 4 frames empty. 
1 medium super with 8 frames drawn, 6 frames half filled with honey/uncapped
The bottom brood box had minimal honey stores (corners of frames only)
The top brood box had more honey, perhaps a 1" band along the top of each frame
Saw the queen, saw lots of eggs
Numerous queen cups, no queen cells

*Hive No. 2
*
2 Deep brood boxes with 9.5 frames open brood, 4.5 frames capped brood, 5.5 frames honey, 0.5 frames empty. 
1 medium super with 1 frame drawn, no honey
The bottom brood box had minimal honey stores (corners of frames only)
The top brood box was packed with honey, probably 1/2 of each frame was solid honey leaving little room for brood
Didn't see the queen, but saw lots of eggs
Numerous queen cups, no queen cells

So basically, we concluded that hive #2 has been storing most of their honey in the top brood box, while hive #1 readily moved into the super. They've both stored equal amounts of honey, if anything hive #2 has more.

At this point our concern is the limited space now available in the brood boxes of hive #2 may prompt them to swarm. However, the bees in hive #2 are starting to move up into the super and have started drawing out comb. I did swap two empty frames from hive #2 for two half filled frames from hive #1. It'll be interesting to she what, if any affect that has on the bees.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

They don't seem to dissimilar to me. Knowing what we now know, I would leave them be. Keep monitering them as you have been. When the next big nectar flow comes they'll probably fill those supers. Do you have a cpl more ready?

Good detailed report. Sounds like a cpl of good colonys.


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## 71Corvette (Jan 2, 2012)

We have two more medium supers ready and waiting. Just need a flow at this point.

I'm a bit worried about future hive population in #2 but I'm going to wait and see what happens.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I don't fully understand the effects of Nosem, apis or cerana, neither do experts like Randy Oliver apparently. But, have you considered having a sample analysed? And treating?

What about Varroa? What are your plans for Varroa control. Your counts were from drop, right? I wonder what your numbers would be like from an ether roll or powdered sugar roll?

If one controls, and I know that is a relative and loaded word for some, what one can control, one has a better chance getting their bees to survive. Nosema and Varroa are things one can control. To a degree perhaps, but effectively so. Other diseases, AFB and such, one can control too by visual inspection and dealing w/ it. Hopefully not having it, but knowing so by Inspection.

Have you taken advantage of the workshops in ME? How did you get started?


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## Keth Comollo (Nov 4, 2011)

Acebird said:


> So you do this toward the end of July with supers on?


Yep. Supers go on the ground standing on an edge. The brood nest I leave pretty much alone except for the tipping of the top deep to look for swarm cells. If I suspect there is a queen issue then it's a different story. After I feel that swarm season is over, which for me is right about now, I will rarely go into the brood nest. Supers come off around August 1st. Hives get weighed first week of Sept and, if underweight, are fed till they are at a weight to make it through winter.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

71, for what it is worth, i would haved done exactly the same.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

If I was in your shoes, For hive 2, I would have shaken all of the bees off of the frames in the top brood box and replaced it with a deep with drawn comb. If I was not in your shoes, I would have done the same, but put the excluder above the bottom deep. Why should the bees put honey above an excluder when you gave them room below?

Crazy ROland


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## 71Corvette (Jan 2, 2012)

sqkcrk said:


> I don't fully understand the effects of Nosem, apis or cerana, neither do experts like Randy Oliver apparently. But, have you considered having a sample analysed? And treating?
> 
> What about Varroa? What are your plans for Varroa control. Your counts were from drop, right? I wonder what your numbers would be like from an ether roll or powdered sugar roll?
> 
> ...


I hadn't thought of having samples tested just because I haven't seen any signs of trouble. 

My approach to varroa is to use mite drop counts for now. Once the counts get to about 75% of commonly accepted treatment thresholds I'll start doing sugar or ether rolls. I'm also going to be installing a drone frame during our next hive inspection as another IPM measure. For now the counts appear very low - well below treatment thresholds.

My wife and I have both taken beginner beekeeping courses and I've attended several of the monthly meetings held by our local beekeeping club. This is in addition to reading several texts on the subject. I've wanted to get to an open hive session put on by the local club, but the timing just hasn't worked out for me so far.


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## 71Corvette (Jan 2, 2012)

Roland said:


> If I was in your shoes, For hive 2, I would have shaken all of the bees off of the frames in the top brood box and replaced it with a deep with drawn comb. If I was not in your shoes, I would have done the same, but put the excluder above the bottom deep. Why should the bees put honey above an excluder when you gave them room below?
> 
> Crazy ROland


Could you explain your reasoning a bit more? I'm not sure I follow. By doing so I would have thrown out the equivalent 2 frames of open brood and 1 frame of capped brood. 

Are you suggesting the queen in this hive just doesn't like to move out of the bottom box and, therefore, we may as well just give them a deep to use as a honey super?

Unfortunately I don't have any other deeps with drawn comb on hand. We do have some extra frames with foundation and I want to start introducing those at some point so that I can get some extras on hand. Now doesn't seem like the right time though since the frames are mostly filled with brood right now. I'm thinking next spring when many of the frames in the hive will be empty and I can feed.


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