# CCD - disease - plants



## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

bjorn writes:
I never heard of AFB being associated with blueberries.

tecumseh replies:
my understanding is that their is some associated problem concerning blueberries and afb. I have never really read the why or whatfore of the problem but here is my guess (as Lorentz suggested it is always good practice to throw out a hypothesis before breakfast). blueberries require a fairly acidic soil to thrive and require almost no fertilization. so typically you don't find them on the best agriculture lands.. matter of fact blueberries are likely to be on the poorest plots of soil. other crops that thrive on acidic soils are pine trees and azaleas. pine can be tagged as a pollen producing plant with almost NO crude protein content and azaleas as a plant that the bees rarely visit and the nectar is poisonous.

does that picture suggest why afb might thrive?


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

>I remember a somewhat baffling aspect of the CCD samples being testing in the fact that all samples had extremely high levels of EFB and nosema. A coincidence?<

Not sure about AFB and Blueberries. Increased incidence of EFB has been reported in bees working Blueberries. Maybe that's what he's talking about. As I understand it, working blueberries leads to an acidic environment within the hive, and that leads to increased EFB. This report was told to me years ago, by beekeepers pollinating Blueberries in the Blueberry barrens on New Jersey. Not sure if I have it correct...anyone else heard that?


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## MichaelW (Jun 1, 2005)

I've also heard a theory that viruses can be transmitted via blossoms.
Maybe that could compound such problems especially in areas saturated
with bees and short periods of time between flower visits.???????


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## Dan Williamson (Apr 6, 2004)

Here is my uneducated/unscientific opinion:

When these guys are pollinating blueberries there are often other beekeepers hives in the general area... In fact, last year when I pollinated one farm... there were another beekeepers hives also at the farm... they called me in at the last minute as he had failed to deliver as promised. His hives were incredibly weak (half not even flying) and I suspect some were completely dead. There are decent number of blueberry farms all around me... and come bloom time... there are alot more hives in the general area than is normal. 

Prime scenarios where AFB could potentially be transmitted.

Maybe some plants also play a factor... but I tend to gravitate towards other factors.


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## Gene Weitzel (Dec 6, 2005)

I think a great deal can be said about our placement of the bees to benefit us instead of them. Late last summer I cut out 4 hives from a property that was surrounded by large fields of what I would call blooming weeds (mostly hogweed, boneset and a really stinky smelling blooming shrub/small tree of some kind). The honey was the worst tasting stuff I had ever put in my mouth, but the bees thrived in the area.  One of the hives was one I have mentioned before, it required 17 full deep frames to accomodate the brood I removed.


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## kyfarmer (Feb 4, 2008)

Someone is probably ahead of me on this, but the discussion on CCD and crop or location makes me wonder if anyone is recording the locations of hives lost due to CCD. It would be very interesting to see a map of CCD losses across the country. What agency or universities are looking at CCD, nationally?


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## CSbees (Aug 7, 2007)

As long as we have no new plant species, pollenation outfits have been doing pollination contracts for many years with no problems. Why now?


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## peggjam (Mar 4, 2005)

Dan Williamson said:


> Here is my uneducated/unscientific opinion:
> 
> When these guys are pollinating blueberries there are often other beekeepers hives in the general area... In fact, last year when I pollinated one farm... there were another beekeepers hives also at the farm... they called me in at the last minute as he had failed to deliver as promised. His hives were incredibly weak (half not even flying) and I suspect some were completely dead. There are decent number of blueberry farms all around me... and come bloom time... there are alot more hives in the general area than is normal.
> 
> ...


In talking to other beekeeps that have done blueberries in the past, they have also indicated problems with AFB, and also thought it came from some of the hundreds of hives in the area.

Goldenrod also thrives on acidic soils, and I am surrounded by the stuff, haven't had any problems with AFB.


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## Kieck (Dec 2, 2005)

It seems to me that the problem with AFB or EFB seen in colonies following blueberry pollination could be a reflection of stress resulting in lowered ability to suppress the bacteria that cause foulbrood, rather than some other change in the hives.

Stress may also be the "cause" of CCD, if you will. In many organisms, stress can cause collapse of immune systems.

The sources of stress might be numerous: frequent relocation of hives, lack of diversity (micronutrients, perhaps) in diet, pressures from parasites, chemicals in the environment (including in the hives), etcetera.


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## France (Apr 5, 2007)

Well, when I ran my commercial outfit in seventies and eighties I was based in a "official blueberry capitol of the world," Sudbury, Ontario. I can tel you all, that I had never known of one single bee going on the blueberries.
Of course, don't get me wrong, I did not keep an eye on all of them, heee....
Than of course the bees had other forage but miles and miles of blueberry bushes were left to black flies! They are, to my knowledge, official pollinators of blueberries?! (or so I was told by the ministry)
In those days AFB or EFB was for me and others unknown in our parts of operation. 
Although I found out that last few beeks on them old stomping grounds did have have problems with HG (not sure which though, A or E?) in the last two years. One of them is our Bee-inspector. needless to say that I chased him away from my few hives....

In my years I sure saw a few weird things. So, what is being said above could hold water in my bucket.

Now don't you guys get excited? I'm thinking out loud.
I keep my bees now in total wilderness. There are a lot of blueberry bushes around and as I am still stomped about where my bees gather all their stuff - I am yet to see one on a blueberry flower.
I am inclined to believe that locally attuned bees don't go near blueberry flowers. Same as they say that feral stay far away from GSO stuff?!
But when guys plop them down in the blueberry fields for money they have no choice, much less have they any clue to local conditions. (Are not attuned on the region they pollinate - so everything goes?!) 

Any comments to that?

Regards,
France


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## twd8711 (Feb 2, 2008)

when i lived in florida, i had half a dozen blueberries, they never messed with them much every now and then you would see one working them, and i never saw any hives in the commercial fields. might be different varieties


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

What are these guys getting paid per hive to pollinate the blueberries?


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Ian said:


> What are these guys getting paid per hive to pollinate the blueberries?


I talked to the inspector in Maine yesterday. They expect somewhere between 60 and 80,000 colonies to invade the state this year. Top graded colonies will get about $100.

We also talked about the increased AFB/EFB in the blueberriy barrens. The reference I made to the increased EFB on blueberries was for New Jersey Highbush blueberries. Not evident on Lowbush Blueberries in Maine and Michigan. He was involved in the investigation, with Shimanuki and others. Yes, the acidic conditions may have led to the increased EFB infections...but as Shim said...there's no such thing as spontaneous generation. EFB was already present. The conditions only helped lead to outbreaks. They determined it wasn't from the blueberry pollen...bees don't gather much blueberry pollen. It may have been from the Oaks they work in the area.


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## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Michael, how strong are top graded hives on blueberry pollination? I pollinate highbush blueberries on the west coast and we don't charge that much. We should but, it's hard to increase when the competition is slower to increase prices.

I thought that bees breakdown with EFB on the lowbush variety ofr blueberries. I was told or read somewhere, it was because of the blueberry pollen is incomplete. It lacks some essential amino acid or acids. this incomplete diet makes the bees more prone to EFB.

We don't seem to get that here. The acreages are smaller and they are strictly speaking a monoculture. There is other forage out there during blueberry pollination, so the bees diet is varied.

jean-Marc


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

jean-marc said:


> Michael, how strong are top graded hives on blueberry pollination?


Not sure, I didn't ask that.


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## high rate of speed (Jan 4, 2008)

*AFB and BLUEBERRIES*

we have pollinated blueberries in the past,5 or 6 years ago.This year once again,these bees are no different than any other pollinators almonds,cherries,melons,etc.


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