# Apistan Vs. ApiGaurd, I need to treat, old timers......which is best?



## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

I need to treat my hives...reluctantly, but the good folks around here tell me I'm a fool if I dont. Its my first year, so Im on a wing anyway. Just want your opinions, which of the two have you found more favorable. Need to order tonight so thanks for any speedy replies. Thanks again. G


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## Jon B (Apr 24, 2013)

I haven't used Apistan since 2003 and it didn't work well back then. I used Apigaurd about three years ago and was happy with the results. Apigaurd is more work to treat with and requires at least two applications. There is also a new product out called Apivar that has had some good reviews. I also tried Hopgaurd this spring and it seamed to work well. Hopgaurd works best if you apply it three times, one week apart.


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## Andrew Dewey (Aug 23, 2005)

Talk with your state Apiarist to find out if Apistan is effective in your area. In many places mites have developed resistance to Apistan. And Apistan is known to have issues such as the accumulation of residues in your brood comb. Apivar is the latest chemical approved to combat Varroa. It is widely used outside of the US and was used in the US prior to gaining approval. How long it will be effective against Varroa is unknown.

There is a vocal subset of beekeepers opposed to any sort of synthetic Varroa treatment. I want to belong to that camp and have some bees that are purported to no need miticides and I do not treat those bees. When testing indicates a need to treat in my bees that do get treatment I use one of the so called "soft" treatments - either an organic acid (MAQS) or Apiguard (thymol)

Whatever you decide to use pay attention to the label instructions for how to properly apply your chemical and pay attention to withdrawal periods - or the time between when you apply the chemical and can safely harvest honey for human consumption.


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## Double_Bee (Jun 12, 2013)

From experience ill say Apistan doesn't seem as effective. If you are a small time guy apigaurd comes in a little plastic cup that you just peel the top off of and place on the hive. If you but the bucket of apigaurd stuff gets a bit messy but it works well. We like to scoop it into French fry bags(wax paper bags) and set it on top of the brood. Seems to be the best bet, although if you could get your hands on a bottle of taktic (a livestock mite treatment) that is the best treatment other than formic acid that we have found. Just mix it 4:1 with vegetable oil and cut up 2 inch cardboard strips and dip the ends in the mixture, then place in the entrance pointed towards the brood. Hope this helps.


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

Thank you very much for your replies. I also want to use a "soft" chemical if I have to treat. For me right now, honey is the last of my worries, I am keeping bees for the bees, and the plants around them. My only concern in my first year is making sure i can bring them through the fall strong enough to Overwinter. If in the future, they give me boxes to rob..(which im sure they will)... so beit. I remember catching wild honeybees in my hand as a child, on a daily basis, now they are nowhere to be found. I got bees for the love of bees, not any other reason. Thanks again for your input. G


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

Tactik........ tons of Angus in my area, I will look into that thank you for your reply D Bee. G


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## ken rice (Apr 28, 2010)

You might want to check out APIVAR. I've heard good things about it.


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

so do I let me check it out, Thanks......G


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

Just ordered Apivar. Seems like the best thing going. Hope it does the job. Thanks all. G


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## rweakley (Jul 2, 2004)

biggraham610 said:


> Just ordered Apivar. Seems like the best thing going. Hope it does the job. Thanks all. G


 why are you treating? you said because the locals told you that you had to, but you didn't mention if it was because they just think everyone needs to treat or if you have done mite counts and they were high, or you have deformed wing virus?? If you don't have a high count or dwv  then I don't see the need to treat with anything. First year hives are generally supposed to have less problems with varroa. I know you already ordered, but if you don't have high mite counts nothing says you have to treat.


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## blueskybeesupply (Dec 11, 2007)

ken rice said:


> You might want to check out APIVAR. I've heard good things about it.


What are the good things heard about it? Good marketing for sure...

We prefer MAQS, especially going into fall...


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

WHAT A PATHETIC THREAD!!!
Oh my God. Am I the last beekeeper standing that understands how to determine efficacy of a treatment?
Do we just "treat a hive" and see if it is still alive in spring?
Is that a blueprint for scientific beekeeping sucsess?
Here is the first question that folks need to answer that attemt to succsessfully over winter bees:
Am I a serious bee keeper, or a dabbler?
Stop fiddling and listening to , "( Joe told Bill that helped Mike that believed Sally that.....")
Efficacy testing is the answer. I am not here to promote a product, but google it.
If you do not have a clear procedure for determining efficacy of the products used, you are shooting in the dark.
If you do not know how to asses the results of your actions you are lost.
I could spoon feed you my results but that would not advance you as a beekeeper.

Your homework assignment: "efficacy testing"


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## Andrew Dewey (Aug 23, 2005)

Harry - chill

A new beekeeper was asking about current efficacy - which of the alternatives on the market would best solve a dilemma for him. In my experience very few new beekeepers are willing to hear and follow the message: test - do you need to treat, apply treatment, test to see what mite counts now are - did treatment accomplish anything?

Far better IMHO to get them some information that they will use - and slip in some additional information that will help educate them for future beekeeping issues. You correctly identify a huge problem in beekeeping which has at its core a belief that all things are fixable, especially if you hear the secret from someone you believe to be a knowledgeable source. As an example At an open hive this weekend I heard a commercial beekeeper tell the gathered throng that cough drops dropped into the hive are all you need to do for mites; it wasn't until I heard this same story repeated at another open hive the following day that I blew. The debate was down to would Fisherman's Friend be better than Hall's when I intervened.

That some beekeepers don't know the difference between Tracheal Mites and Varroa Mites can probably be attributed to an attitude of spare me the details - just give me a solution.

Thankfully that attitude is not universal.


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

Harry, get a grip. There was another thread called DWV help. If you had read that then you would be more informed of my situation. I am a first year beekeeper and am here to try and gain as much knowledge as possible from people that know alot more than me. I *am* planning on doing a mite count before I treat. Weather permitting today as a matter of fact. Whats wrong with having a treatment on hand even if I dont need it now. Seems to me to be a much better bet to have it on hand if I need it in the future.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

>I need to treat my hives

What gives you that idea? There are allot of reasons why you may not need to treat. I would test first. Search "sugar roll". Where did you get your bees? Feral survivors may have mite resistance. Russians also. Where did the queen come from, was she VSH. Some packages/nuc come with VSH queens.


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

My hive was a small swarm, the queen went missing, went laying worker, added a frame from strong hive. requeened successfully with VHS queen. Got a frame of brood from a friend, DWV started showing up. Now it seems like its gone, think it was his frame infected, going to do a sugar test then move forward. thanks for your input.


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## ken rice (Apr 28, 2010)

Blueskybeesupply, 
Talk about promoting your own product, and that's fine. But how about not putting down another product just to sell the one you promote. Plenty of beekeepers on this site have had great results with Apivar.


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## Cedar Hill (Jan 27, 2009)

I've tried them all over the years. Most leave a chemical residue in the wax. I trust the formic acid strips the most (MAQS). It can be used while the honey flow is on as well. Just make sure you place them correctly. Once a year treatment with my hives. OMTCW


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## wengeasley (Jun 25, 2013)

I thought that was the idea of this site to shame ideas and information ???

I will google it!:scratch:


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

thanks Cedar for your input. It is greatly welcomed. Thanks for not trying to lynch me for asking a question. Me too Wendy. Thanks again for everyones support. And thanks for your rant Harry. G


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

biggraham610 said:


> And thanks for your rant Harry. G


Well you are very welcome!
Glad that my cut to the chase approach was recieved well.! 
So, for the betterment of those following along; please describe your procedure for efficacy testing that you will employ?
(Clue: for a product such as Apivar the results take 24 hrs.)


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

All good harry, Im new I will take my lumps. Thats why Im here, to learn. A man told me a long time ago, you can ask the same question to 100 beekeepers, and you may end up with 100 different answers. I take it all under advisement. By the way, three hours by the hive this evening unwinding, and no activity of the negative nature. No affected bees or larvae dragged out. Overcast and drizzling so I did not go in, but tommorrow should be nice, other than hot. So I will go deep tommorrow I expect. I will keep you all informed. G


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