# whole hive mead



## Harley Craig

No clue but yes, yes you should definitely make it !


----------



## FlowerPlanter

Got a recipe?


----------



## Harley Craig

FlowerPlanter said:


> Got a recipe?


If they had a recipe then I'm guessing they wouldn't ask what it was.


----------



## Eikel

Whole hive mead sounds like you might need to strain it through your teeth during consumption (kinda like drinking downstream from the herd) But +1 on you need to make it


----------



## Colokid

In my research and in the opinion of at least a couple of bloggers it includes everything in the hive, bees as well. Seemed a rather grim prospect but supposedly stems from the time that most honey was taken by destroying the hive. Not a Meade fancier or brewer but as you know you can google anything


----------



## Harley Craig

Check this out! http://bfy.tw/2yU3


----------



## sqkcrk

Colokid said:


> In my research and in the opinion of at least a couple of bloggers it includes everything in the hive, bees as well. Seemed a rather grim prospect but supposedly stems from the time that most honey was taken by destroying the hive. Not a Meade fancier or brewer but as you know you can google anything


Like ReallyRaw Honey.


----------



## Hops Brewster

none for me, thanks. I like my booze without added proteins. Protein tends to make the stuff a bit hazy, then it's more work to get the haze out.


----------



## Tenbears

Whole hive mead is a rather archaic attempt to grasp old world methods in some misguided belief that it is some how better. Sort of like believing chasing a cow through a pasture with in group, jabbing it with spears while trying to avoid getting gored, would somehow make for better steaks! 

I have a great many mead, melomel, pyment, and cyser recipes recommend and I will gladly share. That one is not among them.


----------



## odfrank

Tenbears said:


> Whole hive mead is a rather archaic attempt to grasp old world methods in some misguided belief that it is some how better./QUOTE]
> 
> That has been a common practice by some wanting to promote themselves since the post 2006 upsurge of the interest in beekeeping. To make themselves sound knowledgeable and important, these charlatans promote some off beat idea that unknowing newbees will naively follow. Whole hive mead, topbar/Warre hives, small cell, no queen excluders, 1 1/4" spacing, essential oil feeding, the list goes on. I am embarrassed to admit that they got me to try a few of them.


----------



## sqkcrk

"rather archaic attempt to grasp old world methods"? Old World methods like there never were. I am always entertained by people who will buy a sawn timber and do things to it to make it, in their mind, look hand hewn, when they know nothing about hand hewn or timbers that were smoothed with a foot adze.

The idea that "old world methods" means poorly done or rough beyond imagination is pure bunk. Or something else beginning with the letter "b".


----------



## Steed

Tenbears said:


> Whole hive mead is a rather archaic attempt to grasp old world methods in some misguided belief that it is some how better. Sort of like believing chasing a cow through a pasture with in group, jabbing it with spears while trying to avoid getting gored, would somehow make for better steaks!
> 
> I have a great many mead, melomel, pyment, and cyser recipes recommend and I will gladly share. That one is not among them.


Do you have any recipes that come from ireland? If not please share your favorite recipe


----------



## Tenbears

Steed said:


> Do you have any recipes that come from ireland? If not please share your favorite recipe


This is by far my favorite mead version. It produces a beautiful yellow golden mead with a fresh flavor clears quickly and ages well. 

First make a Sassafras infusion, or Tea!

The roots have to be dug by hand in the early springtime when the flavor-filled sap is still in the sassafras root. Prepare the infusion by boiling a gallon plus a pint of water into which you have placed the bark from about 20-25 five-inch pieces of sassafras root. The bark from a 1/2-inch diameter root is more flavorful than the bark from a 2-inch diameter root. The water will turn reddish-brown and cloudy. Reduce to a simmer and hold for 15 minutes. Remove from heat, cover and allow to cool. The root bark can be reused, I am told, to make a slightly weaker infusion. Strain the liquid through muslin cloth into a gallon jug for future use (tea or wine) or use it immediately to make 3 gallons of sassafras wine.

Sassafras Wine (3 gallons) 

1 gallon sassafras root infusion (see above) 
⦁	4-1/2 lb granulated sugar or honey
⦁	2-1/4 tsp acid blend 
⦁	3 crushed and finely ground Campden tablets 
⦁	1/2 tsp tannin 
⦁	2 gallons water 
⦁	1-1/2 tsp yeast nutrient 
⦁	1 pkt Champagne wine yeast 

Combine all ingredients except yeast in primary. Stir well to dissolve sugar. Cover and set aside 10-12 hours. Add yeast, recover, and stir daily until S.G. drops to 1.020 or below. Siphon off sediments into secondary, top up if required, fit airlock, and set in dark, cool (60-65 degrees F.) place. In 3 weeks, rack, top up and refit airlock. Rack again in 3 months, adding another 3 crushed and dissolved Campden tablets. Rack again 3 months later and bottle when clear and stable. Can be sweetened with honey to taste. add 1/2 tsp Potassium Sorbate per gallon of sweetened mead to prevent re-fermentation. Store in dark place to preserve color. Age at least three months.


----------



## Tenbears

sqkcrk said:


> "rather archaic attempt to grasp old world methods"? Old World methods like there never were. I am always entertained by people who will buy a sawn timber and do things to it to make it, in their mind, look hand hewn, when they know nothing about hand hewn or timbers that were smoothed with a foot adze.
> 
> The idea that "old world methods" means poorly done or rough beyond imagination is pure bunk. Or something else beginning with the letter "b".


 I am pretty sure that mead was made that way at one time. As mead has been around long before Rothchild began fermenting beverages. At least until someone figured out what caused fermentation and developed a refined pallet. 
I never implied that "Old World Methods" in general equated to poorly done other that in respect to making mead with everything that comes out of the hive. As noted by "that it is some how better" not They are somehow better. It was a specific statement regarding a specific topic!
In fact read the read My post On saving my 100+year old barn and you will see the appreciation I have for true craftsmen of any era. I am however sure that in many ways a steel girder is far superior to a hand hewn beam. However, This thread was not about such things. We were discussing whole hive mead in what I believe was Not the timber frame forum. 

Making mead from whatever comes from the hive is simply poor technique. In doing so one uses in the fermentation process all sorts of things including fecal matter, insect remains many stages of decomposition, bacterium, and yeasts with unpredictable fermentation behaviors. Any of which can lead to off flavors. Not to mention that should one produce a mead that pleases the pallet of a local cave man, it is imposable to reproduce that brewing. It is a crude unrefined measure of rudimentary mead making.


----------



## sqkcrk

Tenbears, does "whole hive mead" mean more than honey? Does it mean pollen from the comb? Does it mean comb? Does it mean brood? Whole grain bread doesn't mean the stalk, it means the grain. It doesn't mean the hull too, does it?

So please, for the simple minded, tell me what "whole hive" means. Thanks.


----------



## Ben Brewcat

OK, so historically whole hive mead (which was the way a lot of mead was made) predated honey extraction by a long time. So yes it really was comb, brood, bees, pollen and honey stores made into a soup and fermented. In some ways the "extras" almost certainly helped the finished beverage: the added proteins, minerals etc may well have added needful nutrients to the must. Since ALL beverages were sour and contaminated until yeast culturing and sanitary brewing/vinting etc came about, it probably wasn't that big a deal: alcoholic beverages were comparatively low in alcohol, short in shelf life, and consumed while still active.


----------



## sqkcrk

Historic context and source, please.


----------



## Ben Brewcat

If by context you mean date range, I couldn't say: the origins of mead are largely lost to antiquity. However my basis for the nature of what we know of early fermentation comes from Sacred and Herbal Healing Beers (the Secrets of Ancient Fermentation), Ken Schramm (personal communication as well as Compleat Meadmaker), Beer in America (the Early Years 1587-1840), and my study of other pre-microbial-era fermentations.


----------



## Tenbears

http://www.treehugger.com/green-food/making-whole-hive-mead-boiling-bees-alive.html


----------



## Steed

i think i will stick with honey based mead and stay away from whole hive mead.
its a cool idea but since it is impossible to replicate a brew of whole hive mead i feel like its hit or miss. i would like to go for consistency in my brewing because if i can consistantly brew a good mead it means im getting better at brewing.


----------



## Tenbears

I think you will be far more happy learning and understand the nuances and how to balance them in traditional Meads and Melomels. Perfect sound mead making techniques and refining your individual subtleties. there is no greater sense of satisfaction then brewing a mead that is the delight of all who consume it.


----------



## Eikel

Amen.


----------



## jwcarlson

Edited to remove the million dollar idea I just posted.


----------

