# Beekeeping @ Solar Fields



## Tigger19687 (Dec 27, 2014)

Chickens would be better for a solar place, they will keep the veg down and not ruin the panels/wires like sheep/goat/pig would do.
Bees would be fine too as it would be fenced in very well. But I would worry about swarms landing and staying under a panel
Main issue is the security of the site I would think.


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## ApricotApiaries (Sep 21, 2014)

John Jacob at Old Sol Bees (Beesource username JBJ) has done extensive work on the viability of pollinator planting in/under solar arrays in Oregon. I suggest looking him up and talking about it. Nice Guy.


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

I do not see the "draw" of placing hives in the solar area.
Will some of the Tax help flow thru?
With sheep in there as well one would need to fence off the bee area and be mind full of gates.
bees tend to poop a lot so the panela would be speckled in the neer to the hive areas.

Any one know why I as a Keeper would want to place hives there?

GG


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## Tigger19687 (Dec 27, 2014)

Gray Goose said:


> I do not see the "draw" of placing hives in the solar area.
> Will some of the Tax help flow thru?
> With sheep in there as well one would need to fence off the bee area and be mind full of gates.
> bees tend to poop a lot so the panela would be speckled in the neer to the hive areas.
> ...


Good point about the poop, totally forgot about that. 
Chickens are better  I love me some cute hens


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Sheep are actually fine grazers (unlike the goats - browsers or the pigs - omnivorous diggers).
I'd put sheep just fine - they will indeed keep the vegetation mowed down (while NOT climbing all over like the goats and NOT digging and biting cables like the pigs).

Sheep are fine (maybe very few goats mixed in).
Bees I see an OK option IF they are posted some distance away from the panels (NOT inserted all over between the panels).
For sure NOT pigs - a terrible idea (unless you specifically seek out the grazing pigs - still risky).
Chickens bring very little benefit but more hassle - they are not grazers to be helpful (and yet everyone wild just loves chickens for dinner).


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## Tigger19687 (Dec 27, 2014)

Chickens will keep the bugs down, and obviously you've never seen how they can rotor till a garden to nothing 😉


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## joebeewhisperer (May 13, 2020)

GregV said:


> Sheep are actually fine grazers (unlike the goats - browsers or the pigs - omnivorous diggers).
> I'd put sheep just fine - they will indeed keep the vegetation mowed down (while NOT climbing all over like the goats and NOT digging and biting cables like the pigs).


Growing up we had a few horses, and several cattle. We we left home Mom got some goats, then llamas, then sheep which she has had for maybe 12-15 years. The sheep keep the fence lines cleaned out better than a weed eater and don't chew up wiring and other things on various equipment lying around. Sheep are about the only option I would put in this scenario. 

I've thought about some panels here at home (not 37 acres worth) but on an actual solar farm I think the bees would just be there for the tax credit or general PR. I foresee a lot of my gals landing on some very hot surfaces or having to fly over those surfaces to get out to forage nearby.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Tigger19687 said:


> obviously you've never seen how they can rotor till a garden to nothing


Obviously you and I don't know much of each other.

Well, let me just say I grew on a farm with 30-50 chickens annually and young roosters are the best chicken you can eat hands down.
If anything, I know a thing or two about chickens.

This is how I know the chickens are pretty *useless *on a solar farm.
In fact, they will also be digging their dust baths in all the wrong places too.
So the chickens are, in fact, a liability for a solar farm - not an asset.
Keeping the bugs down - is just a non-issue. 
And you still need to feed the chickens.

*Sheep are the real asset* and provide the exactly needed service.
Bees are OK, if setup properly - given they bring a tax break.


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## funwithbees (Mar 27, 2010)

I have been approached here in upstate NY to place bees with sheep also. I would think the sheep would graze all the wildflowers and grasses inside the fence, leaving nothing for the bees. I would bee interested only if the forage area outside the fence is good and I needed a location.
Nick
gridleyhollow.com


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Unless the sheep are on around 12,000 acres, I don't think that their grazing will have much of an impact on the bee's forage.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

True that, Mr. Palmer. What percentage of a 4 mile dia. circle would be Solar Fields?

Crazy Roland


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## oldsap (May 1, 2016)

There is a group in Michigan now seeking 1000 acres for a solar project. In the paperwork there is specific wording about pollinator plantings. And Mich. State University is running a "Sheep for Solar Farms" program.


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

oldsap said:


> There is a group in Michigan now seeking 1000 acres for a solar project. In the paperwork there is specific wording about pollinator plantings. And Mich. State University is running a "Sheep for Solar Farms" program.


hmmm use 1000 Acres for solar panels and use "words" like pollinator plantings to mitigate the idea in the unsound mind. Very swave, I like it. cover hundreds of acres with panels, and off the hook with a coffee can of seeds.... nice At lease it is not beads...

GG


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Gray Goose said:


> hmmm use 1000 Acres for solar panels and use "words" like pollinator plantings to mitigate the idea in the unsound mind. Very swave, I like it. cover hundreds of acres with panels, and off the hook with a coffee can of seeds.... nice At lease it is not beads...
> 
> GG


Give you the feeling we might be being _"worked", GG?_


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## oldsap (May 1, 2016)

If the power company follows through with their plan it could be good for us. But it is not a done deal yet. Just in the planning stage. I have seen several solar farms around the country but never checked into the pollinator plantings.
In Michigan has a lot of ag property is in a tax reduction plan stating it remain viable for ag and solar farms are acceptable use of that.
Maybe I will have more sites for bees.


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

crofter said:


> Give you the feeling we might be being _"worked", GG?_


sure do
drop in the "good words" move on to the next project.


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

oldsap said:


> If the power company follows through with their plan it could be good for us. But it is not a done deal yet. Just in the planning stage. I have seen several solar farms around the country but never checked into the pollinator plantings.
> In Michigan has a lot of ag property is in a tax reduction plan stating it remain viable for ag and solar farms are acceptable use of that.
> Maybe I will have more sites for bees.


some how with a panel over it In my Mind it is not AG any more. O right the sheep will graze.....
why not grow food on the AG and take say a land fill and put panels over that. or an old factory site, or the site where the PFAS is, pick a spot not suited for food and steal the sunlight there if the "need" is real. this is like the AG used for corn oil for energy.
Big issue IMO is to keep shrinking AG with homes , roads and now solar , wrong thinking IMO,, lots of ways to do energy with out taking 1000 acres of AG off the planet.

Sorry I see Zero good with 1000 Acres of AG going into a panel farm. When there are "Many" places we cannot grow food already. selling it with sheep grazing and pollinator plantings is putting lipstick on a pig. Rooftops I'll bite on, over land fills sure, over super fund clean up site yes, over old factories, sure, Over AG ground, poor decision. done often enough leads to Starvation.

GG





__





how many acres of farmland are lost each year - Google Search






www.google.com





Agriculture contributes $992 billion to the American economy *each year*. 31 million *acres of farmland lost* to development, *in* total, between 1992 and 2012. That's 175 *acres per* hour of *agricultural land lost* to development – 3 *acres per* minute.May 22, 2018


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

Will crops grow under solar panels? They soak up as much sun as they can, right? 
None of the clover I have planted survives in partial shade.

Alex


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

The panels move throughout the day. I don't think any area stays in the shade all that long. As far as crops, The panels at the solar farm just built in my area are too close together to get much more than a mower in between the rows. Farm appears to be about 80 acres.


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## oldsap (May 1, 2016)

September 2020 corn was $3.25 / bushel. Now $5.15. Soybeans and other crops are up. If there is enough money in farming then the property will stay covered in crops. 35 year lease isn't very long and the panels can be removed and go back to crops. If the trend continues and the property keeps getting split into 10 acre spots where somebody puts a house in the middle, buys a compact tractor and mower, mows the place like a golf course it won't ever be ag again.
Or be good for bees.


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## Amibusiness (Oct 3, 2016)

There is no farm in solar. Though there can be solar on a farm. Often gg and I differ when it comes to energy and environment but I am with him here. Put the solar where there is no ag, like on the roof. Even give a tax break (decentralized energy sounds good to me, and most non renewable energies get their tax breaks so let's share). But don't give a tax break for a solar farm or count it as meeting ag requirements! Heck, I have a 50 acre yard where I farm lawn mowers and small airplanes. We usually sell about 500 per year, either for people to start their own herds/ flocks or directly to the butcher. I'm gonna get me a tax break. And when the mower meat market drops I can always plow it up for king corn and soy.... Just kidding but you get my drift, I am sure. There is a lot of risk in real ag, not so much in solar. I bet the 500 acre "farm" they are hoping for near me is going to have an astronomical vet bill each year for all the artificial insemination and parasites. And the price of electricity in NY is based on the price of cheese in Wisconsin.... Good grief! And as long as we are buying foreign produce at lower rates than we can produce it the land will remain more valuable than what is grown on it and the countries that produce our food will remain hungry because it is more lucrative to export than to feed their neighbors.
And as to beekeeping, I would not be opposed to using their site if 1) I need a spot 2) theirs is good 3) they give me unrestricted access 4) they will never ask me to move or attempt to work too close to my bees 5) they don't spray for anything.... In most places I bet there are better locations for bees!


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## oldsap (May 1, 2016)

We have a dairy farm, grew up in it. While I would love it if farming was a good way to earn a good living. If it wasn't for government checks in 2020 a lot more farmers would be out of business. It should be easy to make a living selling something literally everyone needs. I don't know where the next generation of farmers is going to come from. 
But having said that, if you can't make $1500 an acre from crops and you can from solar what is a farmer going to do?


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## Amibusiness (Oct 3, 2016)

Sorry if that came across as negative to farmers. Many don't have a choice. That being the situation we need to take a long and hard look at how / what we pay for food and where it comes from or most of the country will be a food dessert. Subsidizing food may be necessary. Subsidizing energy not so much. And if we had to pay the real cost for products (unsubsidized energy and trash) as well as production, I imagine we would have more local, healthy food and less internet consumerism. Prices would be more localized with more direct sales leading to smaller more flexible and diverse businesses. And if we front end the cost of garbage and pollution (rather than being taxed to clean it up it should be included in the purchase price as a cost, because, umm... that's what it is) we would have far fewer problems with that, not to mention health benefits of everyone having a kitchen garden (if they have space) because, for example they can grow their beans cheaper than they can buy! All around a win that starts with phasing out subsidies. As Ronnie Reagan said, "you get more of what you subsidize." And in some cases we heavily subsidize immoral, dirty businesses and corrupt politicians (not to say that is across the board, but it is hard to weed out the bad from the good in this system).....
But still, as for bees, I think I'd stay away from solar warehouses that happen to be distributed in formerly useful spaces. I don't mind solar energy but would prefer it decentralized on everyone's roof....


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## oldsap (May 1, 2016)

Not offended at all. The 100 acres I own is mostly farmed by me to support the family farm. On some of the marginal land (ravines and wet) we have been planting basswoods (native to the property) and other pollinator friendly plants. Maintaining the original homestead orchard, grafting to reproduce 100 plus year old trees before they are gone. Will it pay? Likely only a little in my lifetime. But in the future I hope someone will keep bees here. And I hope someone continues to harvest crops from the fields.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

> Heck, I have a 50 acre yard where I farm lawn mowers and small airplanes.


I need to up my game. I only have one wrecked airplane in my backyard. 738QZ


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Crazy me, I was thinking goats and chickens...

Crazy Roland


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Clearly cost of energy in the US is way too low (clearly subsidized).
People toss the energy left and right like nothing.

















The Unexpected History of the Air Conditioner


The invention was once received with chilly skepticism but has become a fixture of American life




getpocket.com


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## Amibusiness (Oct 3, 2016)

I agree Greg. However of the various places I've lived eastern us needs the most a/c because it gets soo muggy. I imagine parts of China may be similar but nowhere in Europe is that bad and middle east is dry so swamp cooler if needed is fine.


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

oldsap said:


> We have a dairy farm, grew up in it. While I would love it if farming was a good way to earn a good living. If it wasn't for government checks in 2020 a lot more farmers would be out of business. It should be easy to make a living selling something literally everyone needs. I don't know where the next generation of farmers is going to come from.
> But having said that, if you can't make $1500 an acre from crops and you can from solar what is a farmer going to do?


I know a couple guys who changed from "Barley 3.xx a bushel " to Malting Barley almost 5 a bushel. takes 16-24 bushel of malting barley per barrel of beer. micro brew is in fashion today.
Just as bee keeping has changed and may not ever go back to the way it was in the 80s,, farming is changing as well.
Not every farm is "on the rocks" Milk is very cyclical, and has a fair amount of inputs. 
Timothy hay in Kentucky for the horse racing community is over 5 bucks a bale right now.

One needs to look at what is out there, to make better living on, and change with the markets, no crop is going to be the "one" forever.

IF they lease and take the panels up after use, and do not douse the ground with chems to keep the vegetation down, then I stand corrected., when needed the land could be put back into crops.
Just I see a lot of places that cannot be farmed, and IMO would make better candidates, for panel farms, than productive AG land.

Mathematically the surface of the planet is fixed, we tend to "ruin" acres here and there with pollution, seems the population is growing, each year, at some point we will need to cut down forests, to add AG ground, to keep up with food needs , we are not there yet. appx 1/3 of the surface of dry land can be farmed, so why not place the panel farms on the 2/3 that is not farmable?

BTW the checks you mentioned...... Do the solar farms have ANY subsidies built in? if so then sadly we are farming the government for $$$ , which will come from 30 year bonds our kids get to pay off. I keep trying to explain to my 12 year old son , he owes 27 trillion plus interest and will pay on it till he is 60 something, and he asks what did I get for it.... 

The state is broke and the fed is broke, "Subsidizing" anything needs to be really thought thru, And not just some "new deal" macro plan.

Even if the lease looked good, my farm would not get the panels. Since I am still free and able to decide, I decide to not join the Solar on AG "plan".

GG


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## LarryBud (Jul 19, 2020)

I would also question how open the fields would be to Beeks. There's a whole lot of liability and lots of charged lines-I doubt that many commercial utilities would want anyone wandering around unsupervised on their solar farms. Same thing with high tension line right of ways-be great if the planted pollinator plants and allowed access. There are also security issues. One thing for academics another for commercial-you really think that they'd allow open access to Joe Beeks?


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## Amibusiness (Oct 3, 2016)

Nope, Larry. Better for beeks to look elsewhere!
Gg, not sure you are wrong about the leases: for the 35 years of lease it is not ag. Sure it could be cleaned up when no longer useable and returned to ag (we can hope anyway), but not much food coming out of it until then.... Yes there are many ag products that can be lucrative but not sure Timothy farming or beer is a check of a lot more useful to those of us who eat than solar fields. However, at least they are ag and could be changed if the need and market arose. I forsee acres of unused solar "farms" that the farmer or government need to clean up in the future. The business men will be long gone....


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## LarryBud (Jul 19, 2020)

I used to run a large construction company (Heavy Civil) that had a unit that built solar fields in the Northeast. The security is very tight, employees needed background checks just to work on building the fields-felons and drunk drivers were nixed for access. In some of our unions, that was 70% of their membership (joking sort of, most were good guys who made a mistake long ago) These are the larger power companies on the east coast. The field have 8 foot chain-link with barbity wire on top. A lot of them had 3/4" crushed stone on fabric under all of the panels and the panels covered everything. 

I'm not a fan of solar-if you covered the entire country with field you couldn't get to 10% of the electrify needed and we'd all living underneath them. In my opinion it's a feel good short term plan. Same with wind and I've built al of them. As an engineer, I always wondered if the money squandered on Solyndra had been given to Penn State or University of West Virginia (or fill in your favorite research college) to research clean coal if we would have had a better return. Couldn't be less, could it?


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

LarryBud said:


> research clean coal


Clean coal is just another myth, anyway.

On the topic of solar/ag integration, I actually read crofter's link above...
Hmm... The idea of wool insulation is pretty cool I think (unsure of the economics).
The sheep and the panels should integrate just fine IMO.
Per these links, the wool insulation seems attractive









Insulating Homes With Sheep Wool


If you're planning to build a new home or undertake an energy efficiency renovation, sheep wool insulation might be worth considering. Here is a complete review of sheep wool insulation.




www.buildwithrise.com












3 Ways to Use Sheep Wool in Your Home


All natural, safe, the benefits of wool are aplenty - it's no wonder that it's now being increasingly used in building materials. Here, we take a look at three common building materials that use sheep wool - insulation, carpeting, and mattresses.




www.buildwithrise.com


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## LarryBud (Jul 19, 2020)

GregV said:


> Clean coal is just another myth, anyway.
> 
> On the topic of solar/ag integration, I actually read crofters link above...
> Hmm... The idea of wool insulation is pretty cool I think (unsure of the economics).
> Those sheep and panels should integrate just fine IMO.


Coal is almost pure carbon-there has to be a way to extract the potential energy efficiently and cleanly rather than lining the pockets of the connected few AND GETTING NOTHING.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

LarryBud said:


> Coal is almost pure carbon-there has to be a way to extract the potential energy efficiently and cleanly rather than lining the pockets of the connected few AND GETTING NOTHING.


It does not matter the energy - there *will be* the lining of the pockets.
No need to think that the "almost pure carbon" is somehow different. 
LOL

This has nothing to do with advantages of this or that type of fuel.


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

another issue with solar is the night time.... so now we need storage, which today is mostly battery.
Mining and disposal make it just as environmentally bad as other options.

yes we need to keep working on solar. there has been gains along the way.
Spend Tax dollars to subsidize not so much.
Put it on AG ground,, Again not so much. I see dozed factories from old GM plant here in Mich, sure go there and play with solar.

BTW we can burn coal fairly clean now.

the big concern is putting the carbon back in the air from sequester, I get that.
But why then the smart houses , smart refrigerators, smart every thing, internet of everything, when it all takes power.
seems we should be going to dumb appliances, and dumb houses. walked around last night (I do not sleep well at my age) and there were like 15 LEDs on,, microwave , dishwasher, stove, fridge, all waiting for the next command, computers running in them 7 x 24 

so to me the big push in solar is non-real if the government really believed that fuel consumption was an issue, then we would not see a flyover on the super bowl night. how much jet fuel did that take? cardboard dummies in the seats, how many trees died for that..
we would not see wells being flared of waste gas, we would see all land fills with gas collectors. 
Not to mention Electric cars often run on coal or oil fired plants.
Al Gore is still flying his personal jet around since 10 years ago when, we only had 12 yeas left before we destroyed the planet.









The carbon footprints of Al Gore, Bill Gates, Greta Thunberg and Bill McKibben


Not all carbon footprints are created equally.




www.axios.com





When the "leaders" of the save the planet, group, walk the walk I will tune it, until then it is just noise.
the next big solar push will be $$$ for buddies similar to Solyndra. Did i mention we have spent 27 trillion and counting more that the tax revenue. spend spend spend crash, as long as we are comfortable with the path we are on ,,, bring it on.

the biggest non sustainable thing I see is "Spending"

GG


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## LarryBud (Jul 19, 2020)

Any idea how nasty mining rare earths for batteries is? Wonder why the Chinese are the only ones to do it? There are some locations in the US, Australia and Canada, but even with them, there's a reason they're called rare earths.. The tailing would make coal look like a field of lilies.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

LarryBud said:


> Any idea how nasty mining rare earths for batteries is? Wonder why the Chinese are the only ones to do it?


OK, let's Google.....

OK, here - if the US can get the rear metals locally, the US will do just that:


> Northeast Wyoming is home to one of the highest grade rare earths deposits in North America, *currently under development.*











Rare Earths


Northeast Wyoming is home to one of the highest grade rare earths deposits in North America, currently under development. Rare earth elements (REE) are naturally occurring materials with unique pro…



www.wyomingmining.org




As long as the investment pays back (and now days it will).

China is just lucky to have the metals (not that everyone else are just avoiding the pollution).


> China accounts for over *95 percent of the world's production of rare earths*. Therefore, having control of these elements puts China at a powerful position.








Rare earth industry in China - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Notice the word - *production*.
This is not the same as the availability.

According to the same Wyoming Mining site:

Until the 1980s the U.S. was one of the world’s largest producers. China has increased production by more than 500% since 1990 due to its substantial deposits and cheap labor.
*Rare earth elements aren’t actually that rare.*
China is the world’s dominant *producer *of rare earth elements with more than 95% of *production*.
So, it is only a matter of time before these metals will be mined right in North America.

And so, don't look for any conspiracy here.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Gray Goose said:


> When the "leaders" of the save the planet, group, walk the walk I will tune it, until then it is just noise.
> the next big solar push will be $$$ for buddies similar to Solyndra. Did i mention we have spent 27 trillion and counting more that the tax revenue. spend spend spend crash, as long as we are comfortable with the path we are on ,,, bring it on.


GG, it will always be about buddies and it will always be about spend and spend....
Might as well take is as a necessary evil and move along.
What is new since the times of Athens and Rome?
Well - exactly nothing.

But IMO, looking at coal and similar hydro-carbons is, indeed, backwards and short-sited.
By now we should be smarter than this.

Call me biased (because I AM a part of the tech) but I'd rather have the tech be developing forward and try to harness the *infinite resources* vs. spend the time/effort on something that is *inherently finite.*


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Here is a partial quote by George Mobus, a systems analyst and poly math scientist. _"the so-called alternative (and so-called renewables) have no chance to take fossil fuel's place in terms of producing the same level of free energy needed to maintain, let alone support progress our technological culture. Something has to give. I suspect it will involve some radical shifts in lifestyles and population sizes, both demanding significant changes in beliefs." _

I think he has as good a handle on why things are as they are, and if the curve on the graph continues, where they are going. I have been following his blog for quite a few years. Rethinking Everything Have a peek if you are comfortable with having some of your thoughts challenged! Clik the red hyperlink.


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## LarryBud (Jul 19, 2020)

I think we're getting off subject on this and should move to the Coffee Klatch. I will leave you with a thought from the great Rodney Dangerfield in film Caddyshack (paraphrased) "the greatest waste of real-estate is cemeteries and golf courses" _and solar fields_


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

GregV said:


> GG, it will always be about buddies and it will always be about spend and spend....
> Might as well take is as a necessary evil and move along.
> What is new since the times of Athens and Rome?
> Well - exactly nothing.
> ...


So what is the infinite resource, not solar, need the panels, and racks to hold them (metal) the conductivity (coper) the storage (batteries) and a great big dump as the batteries and the panels have a "Lifespan" wait until these new Ele Cars hit the 10-12 year mark, the "recycle" cost for the battery packs can be 1000s of dollars. same for solar storage devices.
The planet we live on has inherently finite, resources, in every energy category until we begin to mine asteroids then maybe not so much. 

Like the honey bee on a trip to a flower, we need to get more from the payload than the energy and resources to get there and back, considering we cannot even get there yet.....

agree with Crofter, we need to recalibrate what we need to "get by and live"

for a family 3 cars 3 TVs an Xbox and 8 appliances, 4 cell phones, and 250 dollars of power each month can not be sourced for every family in the world. I did Tech as well, so I get it.

GG


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

It is not overly difficult to project our exponential consumption of finite resources and see a point where the line breaks and falls off the chart. What baffles me is how to motivate people to willingly change their activities to a level that is somewhere closer to being sustainable. At the present time there are psycological experts engaged in encouraging us toward ever and ever more energy destroying activity: Professionals exploiting the naive and willing victims. Perfectly legal but surely by some other standard must have to be considered malignant. We dont have mechanisms in our present economic and social model to deal with it. It seems that many of our social constructs lead us to defy the necessity to rethink our way of going. Some of our most dearly held customs would seem to need modification.

Anyone want to volunteer for that job?


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## LarryBud (Jul 19, 2020)

Humans are very much like parasites, they will find a host, rich in resources, deplete the resources and move on, the will adapt and evolve, they will find or create new resources. I don't spend a lot of time worrying about global warming*, peak oil or anything that will happen in a 100 years. I will be worm-food by then and fully expect my great grandchildren to figure it out.
My great, great grandfather was a Union officer in the Civil War, owned a saddle and tack company in Newark, NJ and passed on January 1st, 1900. He was born at about the time steam engines were invented and died when Louis Chevrolet was racing in Grand Prix's. My point is that our species is remarkably adaptable, what will be invented in the next ten minutes is of greater value than all of the inventions of the last 10,000 years. I'm not worried about a 100 years from now.

*This week, with all the cold and 30 inches of snow in the yard, I am a big supporter of Global warming. My house is 40 miles from the ocean and a 85 feet above sea-level. Would be kind of cool to be on the ocean and having coconut palms in the yard-at least this week.


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

Call me a Communist if you want, but I believe the larger your house is, the higher your energy "rate" should be.
The politicians can figure out who gets variances for whatever reasons.

Maybe John Kerry and Al Gore could become friends and fly united.

Alex


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

We do need to get back to bees and livestock.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Gray Goose said:


> *for a family 3 cars 3 TVs an Xbox and 8 appliances, 4 cell phones, *and 250 dollars of power each month can not be sourced for every family in the world. I did Tech as well, so I get it.


My list is much smaller.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

crofter said:


> We dont have mechanisms in our present economic and social model to deal with it.


Stop the energy subsidies and watch.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

JWPalmer said:


> We do need to get back to bees and livestock.


I have been promoting the sheep and the panels! LOL

Meanwhile, a farmer 2-3 miles away did convert his corn/soy field into the "solar farm".
It is his property and he has every right to get his income somehow.
Will take a pic the next time I drive that way.

I do agree, the roof is where the panels ideally belong (especially, granted all the acreage eaten by the suburbia). But I am not to tell the farmer how to use his land.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

GregV said:


> Meanwhile, a farmer 2-3 miles away did convert his corn/soy field into the "solar farm".
> It is his property and he has every right to get his income somehow.
> Will take a pic the next time I drive that way.


I will try and do the same with the new solar farm down the road. It is right on the highway which was a little disappointing but, like you say, the landowner is entitled to get his income any way he sees fit. Meanwhile, there are warehouses with roofs that span acres doing nothing...


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

JWPalmer said:


> Meanwhile, there are warehouses with roofs that span acres doing nothing...


Actually, in my locality the businesses are falling backwards to out-do each other - installing the panels all over. This is despite even the occasional snow dumps we get, ahem...





Major Solar Project in Fitchburg Receives Approval - Madison Gas and Electric - Madison, Wisconsin







www.mge.com




The local municipal airport converted the near-by scrap field into the panels





Solar Project at Dane County Airport Now Delivering Locally Generated Clean Energy - Madison Gas and Electric - Madison, Wisconsin







www.mge.com


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

JWPalmer said:


> We do need to get back to bees and livestock.


Ya, we are not going to solve that one here anyways JWP! 🐓 🛰🛰🐐. 
I rather contributed to the derailment but figured we had decided that putting bees among the solar panels was enabling a not so noble use of agriculture land. Not so black and white are the answers.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Yeah, as Clyde would say, gray.


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## Amibusiness (Oct 3, 2016)

Agreed. I'm not oposed to farmers getting their income. Around here the solar farms are being pushed by outside companies and some would-be farmers are having trouble finding land. The land owner (who legally has a right to do almost anything, even if morally not so much) MAY hire his land out to a solar wasteland. The farmer will then be hard pressed to eke out a living under that. We do have sheep and try (as time permits) to rotate pasture daily, as that increases the yield per acre phenomenally. (The 2 years I was manging the pasture we could double our stocking rate each year. It was a lot of work but when space is limited humans will have to get more efficient....) I think this would be hard under solar. And our smaller "fields" are not fenced. So far we don't have any 500 acre fields in the county yet but it's only a matter of time....


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## Gray Goose (Sep 4, 2018)

ok then back to the OP question.
IMO the bee poop on the panels would in time, cause the solar field manager to disallow bees.
Perhaps a common ground is to have bees 100 yards from the panels and encourage the managers to plant something a bit shade tolerant and blooming. the inability to till and plant would want something self planting.
A white sweet clover, or goldenrod or something along those lines.
there are 2-3 types of each, with slightly varying bloom dates.

With a expressed ban on spraying, as then the pollinators are poisoned and the land is as well.
that way when the Fad of solar passes the land can be put back into AG after spending 1000s to remove the panels.
When I looked at wind power, I asked for a pre paid bond covering the cost of removal in case the operating company is "bankrupted" and the sorry we cannot clean up your lands card was played 30 years later. renter beware.

GG


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## Jack Grimshaw (Feb 10, 2001)

I feel this discussion has wandered.
Time to take it to Tailgater.


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