# whats the need for an inner cover



## tct1w (Jun 6, 2008)

Just a quick question. Why do we run inner covers. Is is to prop the top up for ventilation . I thought maybe a upper entrance but not all you buy have the dado . I build nucs and they dont have them. Just wondering. What yalls thoughts. Thanks and look forward to the input Peace Dave


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

1. The oval slot is for a bee escape, so that you do not need to use a chemical to get the bees out of the super.

2. The feed pail in fall is put over the slot(after the roof is set aside), and feed is in a position very close to the bees.

Crazy Roland


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## tct1w (Jun 6, 2008)

thanks for the reply Roland. On the escape I been known to brush off frames and put them in a tub. And on the pail feeders I use baggie feeders,laying them right on frames. Maybe Im answering my own question. If you prop the top open a bit will they just propolis it with no inner cover. Dont know.


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## yamahawg (May 19, 2010)

I'm thinking without an inner cover you would get lots of comb built hanging down from the telescoping cover.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Without an inner cover you can't prey off the telescoping cover.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

Something for beekeeping supply stores to sell and make money.


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## concrete-bees (Jun 20, 2009)

yeah i broke a few tele tops last year ..... forgot to put on the inner covers on a few hives ...... so yeah they are needed with tele tops not so much with mig.


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## tct1w (Jun 6, 2008)

Thanks folks for all of the input. I can see that they would propolis the telescoping cover and it would be hard to get off. Im just on a budget and expanding my apiary and dont really like building inner covers. Alot of time for a little part of the hive. Thanks again for all the info Peace Dave


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

Migratory covers can be modified to do about anything an inner cover can do. They are also a lot cheaper to make than an inner cover and a telescoping cover. If you need the space for feed, saw new deep supers into three each 3 inch spacer rims and feed with zip locks. I live in windy country. Most fashionable colonies including commercial ones sport a large rock on top to keep covers from blowing off.


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## peacekeeperapiaries (Jun 23, 2009)

we run telescoping covers on everything (nucs, full hives, cellbuilders etc) here in FL and dont have any problems getting them off, and we dont run any inner covers....I prefer the telescoping covers over the migratory, just my opinion...good luck going into spring everyone.


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

I run a bunch of tele covers with no inner covers....I hate those things!

Mike


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## Mtn. Bee (Nov 10, 2009)

All I run is migratory covers without inner covers, just something more to build or buy.
Don't forget the KISS system! Works awesome in all adventures! :thumbsup:


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## beedeetee (Nov 27, 2004)

I'm surprised to hear of people using telescoping covers without inner covers and not having a problem. I have only done that a few times, but every time I did I had to use a hammer to get the lid up and usually 2-4 frames came along with the lid.

I bought a case of nuc boxes many years ago from a retired beekeeper. He had never put them together. When I started building them I realized that they had telescoping covers. I made a couple and used them one year. Same thing....everytime I wanted to open the nuc 2-3 frames came with the lid.

I finally took the long sides off of the lids and used the pieces as supports across the lid like a migratory cover so I could get my hive tool under the lid.


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

Put your hive tool up in between the lid and the box...then pry towards you, no frames come up with the lid. I am in mine at least every other week so they never get too glued down. 

mike


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

When I build my hives out of dimensional lumber I finger the entire board and cut a slot in the top (dato) for the plywood to set in. It helps me square the hive and when I am done I cut the top off at the hive depth. End result is a perfect fitting inside cover and a perfectly square hive body and zero waste. It is deep enough to use as a candy board or upside down as a standard cover. So to answer the question; candy board.


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## brooksbeefarm (Apr 13, 2008)

I've went to all migratory lids, to me an inner cover is just another place for shb's to hide and make more work for the workers. Jack


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

If you're on a budget, and are concerned with the Telescoping cover being glued down you could use a feed sack instead. I've seen youtube videos of folks in Europe using feed sacks or just plastic sheeting. A little experimenting is not likely to hurt anything.


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## Mike Snodgrass (Mar 11, 2010)

I would be real interested if not useing an inner cover really can help control SHB? Less places to hide etc., because that seems to be the place i see them first(early in the season) and mostly later as well! Useing migratory with a special one with a slot for hive top feeders might be the way to go. Hmmmm?


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

I really think that no inners help with the beetle issue....do not hardly see any ever, and that is after an infested year. We will see how this year goes...

mike


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## valleyman (Nov 24, 2009)

I do, and will run inner covers for VENTILATION. I do have mig. covers with jar lid holes in them for feeding when I am feeding lightly. But really dont like using them because of the lack of ventilation. I also use inner covers cut out to feed with the 4 qt. feeder from Kelleys. That way the feeder sits right on the frames. To each his own.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

It has been a long time since I used telescoping and inner covers. But, aren't there two sides to an inner cover? One side deeper than the other?

My understanding on why Inner Covers are used and how they are used are for a small number of reasons.
1. It makes getting the cover off easier since the bees will usually only glue down the Inner Cover around the edges. Usually.
2. To maintain bee space between the top bars and the lid, when the shallow side is down.
3. to provide more room above the top bars when the deep side is down, so, during the winter, the cluster can have more than bee space above the top bars.

As far as Small Hive Beetle are concerned, I don't know what kind of cover would have much effect on them other than maybe an opaque/see thru cover. SHBs don't like light.

Many of my migratory covers have a feeder hole in them. I use a piece of canvas as a sort of inner cover. That's where I often observe SHB. Under the canvas when I rip it off quickly. I don't know if that promotes their existnce or not. I don't have much of a problem w/ them when my bees are in NY. Usually only seeing them while my bees are in SC. But not much of a problem there either.


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## brooksbeefarm (Apr 13, 2008)

Like sqkcrk said, also the inner cover has a oblong hole in the middle of it that was for a bee escape, to use when taking honey off. The inner cover has been around since the langs came out (before shb and other pest) they serve a purpose for those who like them, but i get along better without them. Jack


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## max2 (Dec 24, 2009)

I use Inner Covers with Migratory lids. If I'm not using IC and there is a good flow on I find the bees build comb into the lid.
I do find SHB under the IC and I squash them on the cover. My IC are pieces of 3-play wood. Lino works well too.


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## NasalSponge (Jul 22, 2008)

I use inner covers because, well, I always have. I guess I am getting old and set in my ways, besides I have had to change so many things about beeking since I began I wanted to keep something familiar around, for heaven's sake!


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

If you didn't have inner covers, where would the ****roaches and pisants live? Gotta make room for everyone.


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## SPRUCE BEE (Mar 14, 2009)

Michael Palmer said:


> If you didn't have inner covers, where would the ****roaches and pisants live? Gotta make room for everyone.


:lpf: " Snug Bugs". Winter must have been a wee bit too long in Vermont this year. Make room, my Varroa are on their way UPS overnite! All I can get to live under my inner covers is slugs & frogs out here on the west coast. MP, those were some fantastic fall queens!


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

If you use migratory lids without inner covers, drill a cork-sized hole in the side of the hive body as high up as you can without burying it under the lid rib, and not where you attach cleat handles if you use them. The holes replace the inner cover's ventilation function, and are plugable in bad weather. You can also tape screen on the outside for transportation.

I run several boxes high in the spring and need the ventilation, so I have wine cork holes AND inner covers with telescoping covers. Incidentally, smaller tapered corks work better than wine corks if the proper-sized holes are drilled. I'm using 11/16" holes and corks that snug up about half way now.

On my double and triple nucs, there are quite a few holes in the sides, but the cork expense isn't that great - they're less than a quarter, and a wine cork makes two of them if you know how to cut and shape them. I make individual inner covers for each chamber, and keep a burlap sack handy, too.

I sell comb honey, and have a health-conscious market that DOES ask if I use chemicals. So, triangle bee escapes are my favorite option, along with a blower and a brush, for clearing the last few bees out of the shallow supers. It would be a mess without inner covers.

I'm experimenting with the oval hole going 90 degrees from the conventional front-to-back, venting more frames across the cluster.

Yes, building inner covers is extra work, but I build castles for my bees. I want them to love their home, so I make a production run of inner covers along with all my other parts, and I don't think twice about it. If its right for the bees, its ok with me.


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## max2 (Dec 24, 2009)

kilocharlie - would you mind to post a photo of your inner covers? They seem a little more elaborate then my 3-play!


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## kilocharlie (Dec 27, 2010)

My regular inner covers for 10-frame Langstroths are same as Dadant's. I cut a single bee passage in the top front edge.

The ones I make for double nucs are same length, half as wide, with the hole in the middle as for a 5-frame nuc, but they don't need, nor do they fit triangle escapes. There is a notch (half a slot) along the bottom of one long side for the 1/4 inch lauan or plywood divider that separates the standard Langstroth deep into two 5-frame chambers.

The triple 3-frame mating nuc arrangement of my standard Lang's use inner covers the same length but 1/3 as wide. They are NOT notched for one bee escape - they need to be locked into the mating nuc at times - so I cut a few hacksaw slots for ventilation. Both edges are notched on the bottom long sides for 1/4" divider boards, even though only the middle one needs it on both sides.

There is no design change to either of these (double or triple) except the width, and a cut-out along the bottom side(s) for the divider boards. Nothing complicated.

The experimental one is a standard inner cover, but the hole is oriented 90 degrees - "sideways" instead of "longways". We will see if the bees like them better, worse, or indifferent this year.

I'll have to assemble all of them for a photo session. I'm moving this month (awful timing), so it might be a while.


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