# Preventing an extractor from walking?



## Adrian Quiney WI

I took my extractor for a spin, I extracted my first medium super :applause:.
My question is, other than bolting it to the floor what methods do people use to prevent it walking away? It's a Maxant 10/20.
It has bolt holes in the 3 feet, and I was thinking of bolting those to a wooden base and then rested my 105 pounds of John Deere tractor weights on the wood. Is that enough weight? What do other folks do?
Thanks, Adrian.


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## sqkcrk

Instead of bolts, use lag screws. I bet it'll still walk on you w/ themethod you are thinking about using. Or you will have to use so many tractor weights that they will be in your way.

But, maybe you will be successful. Try it and let us know.


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## beemandan

I have a small one (9 frame) that's bolted to a pallet.


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## MAXANT

With the 1400 series I would get a piece of 4x4 sheet of 3/4 or 1 inch plywood, run 3 bolts through the underside. Then set the extractor leg hole tabs over the bolts. Tighten down with some wingnuts for quick and easy removal. You now have a larger surface area for stability. If you want to get a little more creative you can take some weights and set them underneath the exctractor.
If you are in a spot that the extractor will stay, then you may consider lags through the floor.


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## sqkcrk

Maybe sand ags would be better than tractor weights. then if you stubbed your toe against the weight it wouldn't hurt as much.
Just a thought.


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## Bradley_Bee

I have an older 50 frame Root Extractor. Its mounted on a wooden base and the base is also secured into the cement floor


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## Barry

Anytime you have an extractor up on legs, you will be fighting the turning force. The most stable extractors I've seen don't have legs. Take the legs off and mount it directly to a solid base, high enough off the floor for a bucket to fit under. A nice wooden platform works well.


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## dixie_beek

I have the Maxant 1400PL. I have had no problem with extractor walking and I don't have it anchored. Just start the extraction slowly and give the load time to balance itself, then you can run wide open with no walking or knocking.


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## StevenG

I too took my extractor for a spin two weeks ago... new 20 frame Dadant. On a stand, not bolted down. It didn't walk. I balanced the frames as I loaded the extractor, then started it out slow, built up speed as the frames continued to become more balanced. Minimum vibration, no walking.

My cappings spinner is another story, however. :lpf:
Regards,
Steven


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## Fuzzy

Guys, guys, guys....

Give up on all the bolts, plates, and weights. Instead secure machine to a sheet of heavy plywood AND then bolt 3 large swivel caster wheel in a triangle pattern around the outside of legs (like for a furniture dollies ). 

It is counter-intuitive I know. BUT IT REALLY WORKS!!! The machine will wobble gently as it spins up. The faster you spin, the less it wobbles. It will certainly want to move around the floor but gentle hand pressure is all it will take to keep it in one place. This also takes the pressure off of the extractor bearings and they will last much longer -- probably forever.

Give it a try -- Fuzzy


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## hemichuck

I have a Kelley 3 frame(3 deeps,3 mediums or 6 shallows) that I put a motor on and I mounted it on a piece of 3/4 plywood with a stainless steel tray over it and I mounted the 3 legs on old automotive valve springs and used the spring retainers as washers.I also added 4 wheels to the bottom so I could roll it outside for the bees to clean.I used it last week and it would spin so fast that the comb would bend in the frames(still trying to work out the pulley ratio)but I didnt have a lot of vibration problems.


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## bermybee

Here you go. 60 framer, extracted 1,000 gallons so far with this set up, has not moved or wobbled an inch. Bolts are countersunk in with large washes from underneath the concrete slabs. One day I'll cut off the excess.

Remember even the best plugs will not catch concrete floor 100% of the time. and don't forget where your plumbing or electrical runs before you start drilling.:thumbsup:

http://s562.photobucket.com/albums/ss61/bermybee/?action=view&current=DSC00001.jpg&newest=1


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## Swobee

Maybe an old shoe on each leg would help it. If it walks with a limp, you've got it out of balance.  Well, I t hought it was funny, but I've been sweating in attics all day long so far and think my brain is fried.


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## ekrouse

Fuzzy,

I like the 3 caster approach. My only question is that I keep a bucket under the gate so the honey flows out during the extraction and doesn't build up to dangerous levels in the extractor. How do you keep the wheel based unit from moving away from the bucket? Or does the bucket sit on the base so it moves too?

ekrouse


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## ekrouse

Adrian,

Currently I have a Dadant 6-12 extractor. I use a half sheet of 3/4 Inch plywood (larger and thicker would be better). I use wood nuts (the kind with teeth to grip the wood) on the underside so it sits flush to the floor. Then I bolt the stand's legs down through the plywood base and into the wood nuts. That way I can easily remove the base when I'm done for storage. I weight the base down with anything I have handy... a bag of quick-kreet concrete, a piece of railroad rail, and some concrete bricks. Works well if you take the approach mentioned above.... balance your load and start out slow. With that said I may try the 3-wheel approach mentioned previously.


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## Fuzzy

Ekrouse,

I made sure the base was large enough for the bucket to rest on also. You will find, with a highly imbalanced load that a bucket with little or no honey will vibrate and move around. I have been known to "duct tape" the bucket to the deck.

I'll warn you now... if you try the wheels you'll never go back.

Fuzzy


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## beehive

i used rubber suction cup that had bolts in them that i mounted them to the feet and it ran so smooth. i got the suction cups from cabelas it was for a french fry makers ar something.


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## stoweski

I'm building a wall cabinet/countertop area in my sugarshack/honey house. I plan on mounting the legs to 2 2x4's that run under the cabinet about 3' in each direction. I'm going to use tie down straps to secure the extractor to keep it from wobbling/shaking. These will be attached to the wall... and possibly the front of the cabinets or even the top of the countertop with "U" bolts. I don't see how messing with just the legs will keep it from wobbling around unless you go through concrete.

when it finally cools down and becomes less humid I'll get around to it and finally test it out. Maybe we'll have some decent weather come December!


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## NowThen

Here's my Maxant 1400P. It's bolted to 3/4" plywood on a 4x4 frame (there's a stringer in the middle too.). Fuzzy's right. Start it slow. Let it balance. Smooth as silk.

http://s404.photobucket.com/albums/pp126/pnjdomeier/Nowthen Honey/?action=view&current=iphone101.jpg


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## Fuzzy

Nice job NowThen.

The real test is spinning out that last orphan frame. It is a balance nightmare but works great with the wheels.


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## bbbbeeman

steveg has the right idea, I do every thing the same as he does.and my 21 frame ex' is bolted to a heavy short table the ex' has no legs.good luck rock.


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## Adrian Quiney WI

Well thanks for the replies folks. I went with Fuzzys's method as I liked the idea of being able to move the extractor around.
I took a 3/4 ply 4 by 8, cut it in half and glued it together. then added 3 large swivel casters and the with bolts and wingnuts I attached the extractor to the platform. I took it for a spin this afternoon and extracted 12 gallons.
Just as Fuzzy said it oscillated back and forth about an inch and didn't try to leave Wisconsin. :thumbsup: Adrian.


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## WI-beek

Really? I may have to try this myself. thats if I ever catch up with all the other things I want to try myself.


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## Adrian Quiney WI

There must be some sort of physics rationale as to why this works.:scratch: I don't know why it worked, but it did. Adrian.


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## habutti

Adrian or Fuzzy can you all post some pictures of this setup. Also why 3 and not 4 casters is there any significant difference?


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## Fuzzy

Habutti,

If you go to post number 19 from NowThen he/she has a link to a photo or two.
As to why 3 casters... In a triangle pattern that is outside the center of gravity a 3 legged stand is ALWAYS stable on it's own. By design it cannot wobble. A 4 legged design is never actually stable because it is not possible to have all 4 legs touching at the same time. You will always get some wobble (perhaps small) from any chair on a hard surface. Any wobble at the base is magnified 2-3x at the top.

Adrian, the quicker you spin it up, the less the wobble you will get. Badly balanced loads actually work better at higher speeds with this setup.

Fuzzy


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## Adrian Quiney WI

Habutti, I've not mastered the photo posting yet, but my picture would show my Maxant on plywood like Nowthen's. I used 3 casters as Fuzzy suggested and I trimmed the plywood into a large triangle with the flat side on the front to support the bucket, and the point to the back. I left the margin of the triangle wide enough so that if I push the base against a wall the motor won't bang on it. Adrian.


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## NowThen

I think that the stability of mine can probably be attributed to the mass of the base/platform that I use. It's heavy. The 4x4s are half-lapped at all of the joints with glue and lag screws keeping it all together. There are 4 casters with some sort of plastic tires that may take up some of the vibration as well. 
The design is by accident. I use wheeled platforms like this to keep large floor fans, snowmobiles, fish houses, and other junk mobile in my barn.

My dad tells a story of how _his_ dad made a platform for their hand-cranked extractor back the 1920s. The platform was designed so that my grandmother (think Aunt Bea) could stand on it while cranking - keeping it nice and stable.


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## Roland

Fuzzy - Theory predicts your method should work, and you proved it. How about the next step for those of us that have a pipe that runs from the extractor to a tank? What do you say about 3 gentle springs , mounted in the area of the casters, that keeps the extractor centered, but still free to oscillate?

Roland


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## bermybee

Roland - It's nice to see someone thinking outside the box, even though you missed the whole point of the coasters. Bucketing from a 12 framer got real old, real fast for me. 

I can't see the springs doing anything but making it rock more. Remember the purpose of the coasters is to transfer the top heavy tipping motion (extractor walking) into linear motion on the ground. 

Kinda like running and jumping on a chair without wheels. (One foot where your legs bend at the knees on the chair and the other on the top of back rest.) You can tip the chair and pivot your way down on the rear legs, if you do it right.:applause:

Now do the same thing with a chair with wheels. Now instead of just the rear legs and the ground being your pivot point, inside the center of the wheel is one and where the wheel meets the ground is another and in the case of a coaster the top directional pivot is another. This causes the chair to role forward and you to go backward and land on your head.:scratch::scratch:  
Note: Wheeled chair is still upright and did not tip, across the room maybe, but still upright non the less. 

Putting springs on the chair with no wheels would make the initial tipping easier would it not. 

If I was you I would try the springs on top of the feet of the extractor first. But what more would achieve over my original method?


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## Roland

I believe I comprehend what you are describing. Please re-read my post, with emphasis on the:

3 gentle springs , mounted in the area of the casters

If the springs are JUST strong enough to move the extractor, we have gained the ability to locate the AVERAGE position of the extractor , while still allowing it to compensate for the imbalance. 

To use your chair analogy, Put 3 long elastic members, like a bungee cord, on the wheeled chair, each 120 degrees from each other. Run and jump on it, from any direction. . You will roll, but be gently returned to your starting neutral position. 

With proper piping, either a solid vertical pipe that enters a large funnel , or with flexible tubing, we now can have an extractor that finds it's own balance, and can be drained while running, because it's Average position is constant.

Roland


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## honeydreams

best way to keep a extrator from walking is to take 5/8 inch ply wood cut in half making two 4'x4' squares and glue them togather making it 1"-1/8 thick then mount your extractor to that. won't woble but you might get a frame blow out.


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## EastSideBuzz

This is what we did. The wheels lock and it stays pretty much in the same position.


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## Fuzzy

Roland,
I do comprehend what you envision and it might possibly work 98% of the time. But the other 2% of the time could be extremely ugly and could possibly destroy something. I will say with some certainty that the wheels will be more effective than the springs. 
I must say that I have no real knowledge of mechanical engineering or spring properties so this is just my reasoning that follows.
a.	The imbalance in the load imparts ENERGY to the body of the extractor as it swings around.
b.	The wheels absorb the energy by moving in the direction of the force and trying to follow it around the circular path. This essentially dissipates the ENERGY.
c.	A spring, on the other hand, STORES energy and returns the 50-80% of the ENERGY when the load is removed. Therein lies the problem. If you hit exactly the right speed ( matching the speed that the spring RELEASES the ENERGY) then the spring will amplify the load and tear up the extractor. This is a phenomenon known as resonance and can be extremely destructive in mechanical situations. Imagine if each spring bounce amplified the load by only 10% each rotation. It does not take long to go ballistic .


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## bermybee

Fuzzy thanks.opcorn:

It's a honey extractor not a washing machine. Do you want your extractor shouting off every time you have an unbalanced load.
I thought the main point of the casters was to make a small extractor easy to move around?:s If you don't intend to move it why not just bolt it down.
I haven't heard of anyone breaking an extractor because it was bolted to the ground,well properly anyway. I mean isn't that how Maxant and Dandant engineered it to work in the first place and why they use all that extra metal and those huge bearings thingy-s??? 
When they figure a way to spring suspend the drum of a honey extractor and end everyone's bolt down blues I'm sure they will let you know Roland. Of curse that would be more parts to replace.:ws :lpf:


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## Fuzzy

Bermybee,

As I stated earlier, the imbalanced load is energy. The casters convert the energy into motion. If the machine is hard mounted, the imbalance energy is still there and it is converted into HEAT in the bearings and grease thus shorting the life of the bearings. 

I suspect, but may not live long enough to prove it, that the bearings in my "castered" extractor will never wear out.

If you want to hard mount go ahead -- it's your machine.

Regards -- Fuzzy


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## Kingfisher Apiaries

Wooden base, have one or 2 guys stand on the base. What we do every year.


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## MAXANT

Food for thought
http://www.hamiltoncaster.com/Casters/Heavy_Duty_Forged_Steel_Casters/Spring_Loaded_Casters.aspx


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## Roland

I repaired a large 70 frame extractor that was bolted to the floor, and run for extended periods unbalanced, The Stainless steel fatigued and cracked. I can see how casters, or better yet, linear ways, would allow motion in the extractor and lessen bearing wear and material fatigue.


Maxant - good idea, but I am talking of springs in the other axis, horizontal, not vertical. 

Fuzzy - I an aware of the terrible destruction that can be done with resonance, and have witnessed the results of attaining harmonics. I have no fear that that will happen in this situation. I will have to do a little research and experimentation. Do I get an "attaboy" if I can make a control that measures the imbalance, and retards the rate of speed increase in proportion to the level of imbalance? In other words, is she starts a shaking, it holds that speed until the shaking goes away.

Roland


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## EastSideBuzz

MAXANT said:


> Food for thought
> http://www.hamiltoncaster.com/Casters/Heavy_Duty_Forged_Steel_Casters/Spring_Loaded_Casters.aspx


Nice casters. But, Your Price: (not incl. options) $396.01 EA

I am all about super charging my Extractor but, three casters are the price of the extractor. _Tim Taylor and me have a lot in common "more power" except my stuff does not blow up on me._

http://crowncasters.4casters.com/CatalogPartDetail/tabid/361/PartId/S-SPCH-10DB-2/Default.aspx


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## MAXANT

Thats not my price, nor would I ever spend that much on them! :no:


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## Fuzzy

"In other words, is she starts a shaking, it holds that speed until the shaking goes away.
"

Roland, 

I'd give you the attaboy just for persistence and diligence. Although, the quoted statement above is illogical. If the shaking is the start of resonance it will get worse by staying at speed. You must either move down or up enough to move off the harmonic curve. If you move down you will likely never finish extracting ... I know because I used to have loads that took an hour to spin out. Now the longest load takes 10-11 minutes.

But It is your time and money so go for it.

And oh by the way THANK YOU for documenting the damage that occured to the equipment. -- Fuzzy


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## EastSideBuzz

MAXANT said:


> Thats not my price, nor would I ever spend that much on them!


Too funny. Not your price it was the check saying what the price was. Should not have cut and pasted it that way. Sorry for inferring that it was your price. I would pay 20 bucks a piece for them max. Just to have cool casters.


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## bermybee

Roland said:


> I repaired a large 70 frame extractor that was bolted to the floor, and run for extended periods unbalanced, The Stainless steel fatigued and cracked.


Just to put this in perspective.
Do you know the make of that extractor?
Gauge of SS used?
Was it welded or soldered?
Was it a leg-ed extractor where the legs supported by the top and the bottom ring on the extractor or was tank the only support for the top Chanel. 
When you say "extended periods unbalanced" was it loaded properly or was quarter deep the rest mediums situation.


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## bmcmahon

Great thread. Thanks for all the ideas. I decided to try a double thickness of 2'x2'x3/4" ready cut plywood panels from Home Depot for my Dadant Ranger. I used 3 3" casters and secured the honey filtering bucket with a rubber cord borrowed from a tree staking kit. 4"x4"s slip comfortably under the sides with about an 1/8" to spare so I think I'll frame it in 4"x4"s to give it more bulk and stability. I did run the unit and bring it up to full speed with no shakes, rattles or rolls.


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## max2

Looks good but the base looks a little large - do you need to lean across to put the frames in?


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## Reid

Fuzzy said:


> . . . . As to why 3 casters... In a triangle pattern that is outside the center of gravity a 3 legged stand is ALWAYS stable on it's own. By design it cannot wobble. A 4 legged design is never actually stable because it is not possible to have all 4 legs touching at the same time. You will always get some wobble (perhaps small) from any chair on a hard surface. Any wobble at the base is magnified 2-3x at the top.
> 
> Fuzzy


Fuzzy, thanks for confirming the path I was about to take. A couple of us at work were just discussing this very option to solve our mutual extractor problem. With your posts and confirmation from others I've got myself a project for this weekend.
~Reid


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## bermybee

bermybee said:


> Just to put this in perspective.
> Do you know the make of that extractor?
> Gauge of SS used?
> Was it welded or soldered?
> Was it a leg-ed extractor where the legs supported by the top and the bottom ring on the extractor or was tank the only support for the top Chanel.
> When you say "extended periods unbalanced" was it loaded properly or was quarter deep the rest mediums situation.


No answers Roland? opcorn: Poor built (engineered) equipment will break.

Maxant have you ever had a costumer complaining about the stainless cracking on one of your machine that has bee bolted down?

I understand the physics behind easing the bearings up, and the whole extractor for that matter with wheels, yes. But my thing is why would you want any thing above a 20 framer wandering around your honey room.:no: Would you buy a Ford F150 load it up with Portland cement bags, attach a trailer to it, start it up and then carry it around on a huge flat bed because you didn't want to put unnecessary stress on it's parts? No it was built to work.


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## Barry

Fuzzy said:


> A spring, on the other hand, STORES energy and returns the 50-80% of the ENERGY when the load is removed. Therein lies the problem. If you hit exactly the right speed ( matching the speed that the spring RELEASES the ENERGY) then the spring will amplify the load and tear up the extractor. This is a phenomenon known as resonance and can be extremely destructive in mechanical situations. Imagine if each spring bounce amplified the load by only 10% each rotation. It does not take long to go ballistic .


A washing machine works very much like an extractor. If I'm not mistaken, washing machines employ three springs. Why don't manufacturers design extractors the same way? Springs work if used right.


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## MAXANT

No complaints about ss cracking on any of our machines.


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## Roland

Bermybee, sorry, typed in reply a few days ago, must have hit the wrong button.

Do you know the make of that extractor?
I believe it was a Hubbard, circa 1980

Gauge of SS used?
Thick enough, it's twin survived just fine. No problems welding.

Was it welded or soldered?
TIG welded 304, I TIG welded also.

Was it a leg-ed extractor where the legs supported by the top and the bottom ring on the extractor or was tank the only support for the top Chanel.
It was a legged design, with a conical bottom, the cone pointing down. The 4 legs where 2 inch angle? welded by the outer ends of the angle to the sides, for about 6 inches, with a truncated cap.


When you say "extended periods unbalanced" was it loaded properly or was quarter deep the rest mediums situation.
Some one removed the spacing pegs from on sector, and placed a frame or two more in that sector only, hence the imbalance. I replaced the pegs, and it functioned fine after that.

Barry, spent time under your wash machine, EH?


I worked on a shaft balancing machine, and it functioned well with out of balance shafts. The shaft was mounted by live centers, in a very light frame,that was suspended by springs. The shaft would spin on it's center of mass, not the machined centers. Sensors would detect the motion of the frame, and indicate the heavy side position and mass.


I hope this posts, and answers all questions.


Roland


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## bermybee

Roland said:


> Thick enough, it's twin survived just fine.
> 
> Some one removed the spacing pegs from on sector, and placed a frame or two more in that sector only, hence the imbalance. I replaced the pegs, and it functioned fine after that.
> 
> Roland


:ws ENGINEERING!!! THERE IS A REASON THINGS ARE BUILT THE WAY THEY ARE.:ws 
Well I would break too.  No extractor is built to withstand that type of torture. Plus how old is that extractor again it probably been running like that for the past 20 years

Do the math and correct me if I’m wrong. A full medium box has 40 pounds of honey. That’s 4 pounds a frame (if he uses 10 frame boxes) plus the weight of the frame it’s self. (http://www.beeclass.com/dts/honeysuper.htm) That’s 8 + pounds in one side. A 60 frame extractor is 52’’ wide at 75 rpm, quarter power that’s 4.16 G’S. That’s the equivalent of a 33 pound imbalance on one side. In a 70 framer that’s almost like putting a full small box on one side of an extractor. 

A full deep box has 60 pounds of honey. That’s 6 pounds a frame (if he uses 10 frame boxes) plus the weight of the frame it’s self. That’s 12 + pounds in one side. That’s the equivalent of a 50 pound imbalance on one side. In a 70 framer that’s almost like putting a full medium box on one side of an extractor.

Come on now.


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## Fuzzy

Reid,

Did you complete your extractor mods as you indicated? If so how did it work out for you ?

Fuzzy


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## Reid

Fuzzy said:


> Reid,
> 
> Did you complete your extractor mods as you indicated? If so how did it work out for you ?
> 
> Fuzzy


Indeed. Thanks for asking.
The extractor is a 4 frame Dadant tangential, hand-crank. Purchased used, but used only twice.
I don't have a picture handy and don't have time to deal with it tonight, so I'll describe it.
For simplicity (and because I didn't want to purchase another piece of 3/4 ply, I use a square piece with 4 casters and wide enough for a 5 gallon bucket to sit underneath
Four, 2"x3" legs angle out to attach at each of the 4 corner above the casters. The legs angle up to a mitered box constructed of 2"x3" where the corners of the box extend just beyond the tank ~1 inch. The box is inset in order to more easily tilt the extractor to drain. The legs are tall enough to accommodate my sieves that rest atop the bucket.
The extractor is held tight to the base with the brackets it came with and some added chain (forming an upside-down 'Y' of sorts) and a turn-buckle to each leg to really tighten it up.
The box was built to nicely seat the standard 10-inch reflective dish-type utility lamp to warm the honey before straining.

Right when I finished it my engineer co-worker/beekeeper friend on the other side of Puget Sound asked to borrow it. He extracted 5 gallons or so with it with only complements, no complaints, and no suggested modifications. He said that under a full load it would initially oscillate about 1 inch until the load balanced and the speed was increased, at which time the oscillations dropped to something less than that. 

I've got a couple of deeps and a Western of knotweed honey to extract. If I notice anything different I'll post it here.

So far so good and WAY better in comparison to the heavy box it was on before while we leaned on it trying to keep it from walking away.

Mission Accomplished!

~Reid


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## max2

Here's my Maxant 1400P. It's bolted to 3/4" plywood on a 4x4 frame (there's a stringer in the middle too.). Fuzzy's right. Start it slow. Let it balance. Smooth as silk.

http://s404.photobucket.com/albums/p...=iphone101.jpg

I'm getting to this issue....haven't read all the posts as yet. I like the caster idea. IN my case I have to tilt the the whole show at the end to get the last drop out. How you deal with this with wheels??
thanks - max2


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## Josh Carmack

Casters will work, they allow the load to average as mentioned by others, the bearings are still imbalanced due to the imbalance being relative to the assembly. A portion of the load has been removed, instead of withstanding the total weight of the imbalance, they now only withstand the force of shaking the platform VS the entire unbalanced load. Energy cannot be destroyed, but can be transferred. Springs will work as well, albeit they will transfer more energy outward of the assembly then caster will. If it were me, I'd go with spring loaded mounts, there are millions of washing machines that do the same thing billions of times a year. Springs only become a problem at the point they can no longer absorb the energy without bottoming out. Me personally, I'd go with springs.


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## Adrian Quiney WI

Josh, I have been happy with my castors. It would be interesting to see if anyone has gone the spring route? Would the difference between the weight of a load of laundry, and the weight of a load of frames have any impact on this idea?


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## Josh Carmack

Ohh no, in no way am I saying that castors are a bad idea, or a compromise they will allow the extractor to better handle an imbalance, VS springs, the difference being that springs keep the average position where you need it to be for plumbing. A flexible rubber or other connection will work with springs as long as it has more flex than the springs.

As far as the load differences would be, I'm going to say they will average out greater in an extractor by a fairly large amount. Water being 8.3 Lbs per gallon and there probably isn't more than 3-4 gallons at most when the unit starts to spin. The total load difference being only relative. Bigger load, longer stronger springs, or greater throw on a castored unit.


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## NowThen

Max2,

To get the last honey out of the extractor, I turn a chunk of 2x4 on edge under the rear of the platform. This tips the extractor forward just enough to get the honey moving toward the gate. A long handled plastic spatula speeds things up.


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## max2

NowThen -"I turn a chunk of 2x4 on edge under the rear of the platform" - this is pretty well what I do at the moment too. BUT with casters I would assume it would be more difficult. The extractor would try to run away?


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## Adrian Quiney WI

Max 2, I have the extractor on legs, and the legs stand on a platform, under the platform are the three castors. To get the last of the honey out I loosen the wingnuts that hold the extractors legs to the platform, and tip it forward as the other posters describe. It works well enough that I'm not looking for another solution. Even though the platform is on the castors it remains manageable.


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## max2

Adrian - good ideas. Do you keep the bucket ON the platform?


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## NowThen

Max2,

I'm only raising the platform a little bit. Just enough to point the remaining honey in the right direction. I suppose that if it did decide to start rolling away, I'd lay a brick or kid in front of a caster to keep it still.


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## Adrian Quiney WI

Max2 , yes I have the bucket on the platform.


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## max2

Thanks Adrian and NowThen

max2


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## Ozarks Honey Company

I know this is an old thread, but I just came across it from a link in another thread. It got me really excited about a way to mount my 12 frame and keep it from walking out the door and leaving a trail of honey (as the gal I purchased it from said it has done to her several times  ). I now have a weekend project before pulling supers. 

I am wondering what you all think of this idea to solve max2's delemia??



> In my case I have to tilt the the whole show at the end to get the last drop out. How you deal with this with wheels??


What if one used locking casters and put them in the triangle configuration and mount exactly like the picture in post #33? You would leave them unlocked during the extraction process alowing the extractor to "swing it's hips". Then when extracting is complete, you lock the castors so it won't roll and prop the rear castor up a bit with something or just tilt it manually.

Thoughts...


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr

I agree with barry. Take legs off and mount directly to a box that you can build of plywood.. You can fill the inside with anything you want. Even pour it full of concrete if you want too. then nail a top on it, turn it over, then mount the extractor using lag screws.

cchoganjr


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## max2

ekrouse said:


> Fuzzy,
> 
> I like the 3 caster approach. My only question is that I keep a bucket under the gate so the honey flows out during the extraction and doesn't build up to dangerous levels in the extractor. How do you keep the wheel based unit from moving away from the bucket? Or does the bucket sit on the base so it moves too?
> 
> The casters work - buy some with breaks on them. The only problem is if you need to tilt the Extractor to get the last drop out or for cleaning.
> The challenge is in the loading - try to have it as balanced as possible and there should only be a minot wobble.


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## Andrew Dewey

Fuzzy said:


> Guys, guys, guys....
> 
> Give up on all the bolts, plates, and weights. Instead secure machine to a sheet of heavy plywood AND then bolt 3 large swivel caster wheel in a triangle pattern around the outside of legs (like for a furniture dollies ).
> 
> It is counter-intuitive I know. BUT IT REALLY WORKS!!! The machine will wobble gently as it spins up. The faster you spin, the less it wobbles. It will certainly want to move around the floor but gentle hand pressure is all it will take to keep it in one place. This also takes the pressure off of the extractor bearings and they will last much longer -- probably forever.
> 
> Give it a try -- Fuzzy


This is what I have on my Maxant and it works well.


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## Slow Modem

I haven't operated my extractor since I mounted it on a pallet. However, when I operate it the next time, I will seriously consider putting three casters on it just to see what it does (or doesn't) do.


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## Fuzzy

"Or does the bucket sit on the base so it moves too?"

I keep mine on the base -- However, I have had to hold it in place with duct tape a couple of times with really unbalanced loads.

"The only problem is if you need to tilt the Extractor to get the last drop out or for cleaning"

I have a wheel mount for my table saw that uses a lever to raise the frame enough so that the the wheels do not touch the floor. The same could be made for the extractor base.

Fuzzy


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## carlinmo

Castors work great on my extractor. I have Dadant M00411 6-12 FRAME RADIAL EXTRACTOR with the Stainless steel stand (M00415). I bought castors with bolt heads and bolted them directly into the holes on the feet of the stand -- no need for a board. I ran the motor up to the maximum rpm on 6 batches without any appreciable wobble. I could tilt the extractor by myself to get the last of the honey.

Carl


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## beedeetee

I use the 3 castors through 5/8" plywood method with my extractor. To get the last honey of the year out, I have accumulated several hive body sides that don't have a mate and I stack up about 4 of them on the floor and put one of the castors (the one opposite the gate) in the hand hold to let it drain. It has never tried to roll away while draining


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## Ozarks Honey Company

OK, built my 3 castor extractor plate out of 2 pieces of 3/4" (23/32 to be exact) plywood tonight. 

First, I cut my top piece and at the front, I also cut a "bucket holder" just the right size for a 5 gal or similar bucket to sit in. I then glued the two pieces together using liquid nails & screwed them tight. Next, I cut the bottom piece to the shape of the top. Then I mounted the extractor stand to it using hex bolts. Last, I flipped the whole assembly over and mounted the 3 locking castors using lag screws. 

I am ready to take it for a spin (pun intended) this week.

Here are some pictures of what I came up with:

Front with bucket in holder








Front without bucket








Closeup of bucket holder








Back view








I put the castors almost directly under the point where the stand mounts are. The weight is distributed perfect so that it can be tilted forward to the bucket for draining and while empty, the whole thing actually stays leaning toward the bucket under it's own weight. I think that once it is full of frames it will be a bit harder to tilt which is good as it shouldn't tilt unless desired. But once it is time to get the last of the honey out it should tilt fairly easily and stay in that position with minimal effort. :applause:

My plan is to leave the castors unlocked during extraction to allow the sway that is desired and hopefully cut down on wearing out the rubber on the top bearing. :thumbsup:

Can't wait to test it out!!! Will post my results when I am done extracting.


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## Slow Modem

I like the little cutout place for the bucket.


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## KDM

I use 4 castors with 3/4 plywood works very well. I have an older 24 frame root extractor,very heavy. When i am through extracting i use a cheap small floor jack to tilt the whole platform and tank to get the last honey. If you don't use some kind of stop the bucket can slide.


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## Ozarks Honey Company

OK, so I just got done on Sunday extracting 70 frames. This setup with three wheels works like a charm!!! The weight was perfect for tilting and everything. I did put a small concrete block on the rear while extracting though, just to make sure as the bucket filled it didn't decide to tip "automatically". 

Here are some pictures...

View attachment 2401

The setup

View attachment 2402

honey flowin'

View attachment 2403

Bucket in front of extractor - you can see how it is in the "holder"








One more showing the front with bucket


It went very well, great design. Even with it purposely off balance it only wobbled about 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch. Very pleased with the design, someone get an "A" for this.

I have more pictures on my facebook @ facebook/OzarksHoneyCompany if youre interested.


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## Adrian Quiney WI

Jeff, Fuzzy gets the "A" for suggesting this method. This afternoon I finished extracting 35 gallons, and it went smooth. Also, I used a tip Jake from Maxant suggested; I ran the extractor on slow for 5 minutes to even out the load, and then cranked it up to max for another 6 minutes and then switched it off until the next load of frames were ready - worked like a charm in this 90 degree heat. Later I just wheeled it over to my hose, rinsed it out good and I'm done for now.


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## Ozarks Honey Company

Speaking of cleaning the extractor... Does anyone let the bees lick it clean?

I tried it and it took about 1 day, they had all the honey cleaned off of it. Tomorrow I will wash it with the pressure washer to clean off any loose debris and stuff the bees didn't get.

Just wondering...


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## RABray

Thank you all for your ideas. I was able to make my base without having to go through a lot of painful learning curve. This is my new base as well as my new extractor. Right after I took the pictures I fired her up for the first time. Needless to say this sure beats the crush and strain I was doing. I decided to jump right in for the powered model and I sure am glad I did. I added the extra height to gain the clearance to change the strainers while still running the extractor.


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## kbfarms

We extracted 55 gals with the three coasters. Perfect! Thanks so much for the information.


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## Ozarks Honey Company

RABray,

I am jealous, yours looks better than mine. LOL  Nice cutout for the honey gate, love it! Also, great idea on the added height, I may have to take mine and modify it to match yours what a plus it would be to use a full 5gal bucket and still be able to change strainers. I use a 3.5gal when I extracted, but that was because I could not put a 5gal under with the strainer. 

Nice job!


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## RABray

Jeff,

Well thank you. I would not have had this success without the suggestions and ideas you and others on this site so freely shared. This forum is a fabulous source of information! Anyway...truth be known...I started with a small opening for the cleaning water to drain out of the bucket depression and then realized after mounting the honey gates on the bucket the opening needed further opening. Fortunately I had not applied the finish before I realized this. I used the unit Sunday for the first time and it worked flawlessly. I would not have known to put the base on three wheels had I not read about the advantages on this forum. The unit wiggled a bit and shimmied a bit but never walked around and it was sitting on a smooth hard surface floor, Pergo to be exact. Sooooooooooo... Hats off to this forum for helping me... :thumbsup:


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## snl

What capacity wheels would one use on an 18-22 frame extractor?


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## Ozarks Honey Company

> What capacity wheels would one use on an 18-22 frame extractor? .


I just went to Home Depot and purchased the 2 1/2 in hard castors. They have a 132lb capacity. That is per castor, so you shouldn't be exceeding the weight limit with 3 castors even with your 18/22 frame extractor.

Here is a link to the castor I used: http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202205532/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=castor&storeId=10051

They do have heavy duty castors available too if you are concerned about weight. I can tell you that the ones I got have performed flawlessly this year with my 12 frame extractor.

Good luck,


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## challenger

3 swivel casters with 3/8" studs through the leg mounting holes works fine. I don't understand the need for any platform or base? The casters give the height for a double strainer and 5 gallon bucket.
I put a "real" honey gate on my Maxant 1400. It extends out about 4" longer than the original. I tilt the unit kepping one foot jammed against one caster as I tilt it. At some point two front caters flop over and I can empty all but maybe a pound of honey/trash and the gate is inside the strainer. I just have to make sure I keep a hand on the side that is lower to keep it from kicking backward and falling over.
Why the bases & platforms?


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## Vance G

I have used a piece of plywood with a large dot of silicon rubber at each corner to temporarily glue it to the floor. After the usage I cut the dots with my trusty hive tool and clean the rubber off the concrete. I would prefer anchors planted in the floor if I would ever decide for sure where to put them.


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## challenger

Vance G said:


> I have used a piece of plywood with a large dot of silicon rubber at each corner to temporarily glue it to the floor. After the usage I cut the dots with my trusty hive tool and clean the rubber off the concrete. I would prefer anchors planted in the floor if I would ever decide for sure where to put them.



I doubt that it is really necessary but my uneducated, yet mechanical, mind makes me inclined to believe that the energy spent on allowing the extractor to move will relieve some stress on the bearings.
Either way I still don't think a platform or base does anything but as "stuff" to the extractor. Maybe I am missing a hidden benefit.
I love the 1400 extractor from Maxant but it does not like spinning an unbalanced load. The extractor will spin a lot easier and needs less friction from the knob when there is balance inside the tub. I know that balance is better after throwing out the bulk of the honey from the frames but I've loaded mine down with over 15 deep frames and 5 mediums several times. If it is balanced to the point that it doesn't start to wobble upon initial starting rotation it is usually going to spin fine. If I try to force it to spin a load that isn't balanced it will never get up enough steam to throw the honey. I think it has to do with the way the friction system works and I can appreciate this and live with it.
It is great equipment IMO.


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## KQ6AR

You guys have me convinced to try some wheels on my new 20 frame.


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## snl

challenger said:


> 3 swivel casters with 3/8" studs through the leg mounting holes works fine. I don't understand the need for any platform or base? The casters give the height for a double strainer and 5 gallon bucket.


That's all I did for my new 1400 (no platform, no nothing) works like a charm with just a simple "wobble." Jake (from Maxant) should recommend it as preferred method of mounting!


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## kbfarms

3 wheels work great and relieves the stress on the entire system.


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## D A V E

I plan on doing my extracting in the garage so I will bolt mine to the floor 3 small holes in the concrete 3/16 " to run some Tap Cons in when done back them out until next time . Simple easy and sturdy.


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## snl

The 3 casters work great.......IF, IF you've a balanced load! That does not happen too often. I started off with a wobble, advanced to a slow dance, then ended up doing the shag with the extractor leading!!! Now it's bolted to the garage floor when in use..........


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## wildman

Fuzzy said:


> Guys, guys, guys....
> 
> Give up on all the bolts, plates, and weights. Instead secure machine to a sheet of heavy plywood AND then bolt 3 large swivel caster wheel in a triangle pattern around the outside of legs (like for a furniture dollies ).
> 
> It is counter-intuitive I know. BUT IT REALLY WORKS!!! The machine will wobble gently as it spins up. The faster you spin, the less it wobbles. It will certainly want to move around the floor but gentle hand pressure is all it will take to keep it in one place. This also takes the pressure off of the extractor bearings and they will last much longer -- probably forever.
> 
> Give it a try -- Fuzzy


 + 1 What Fuzzy said , works like a charm !!!!!


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## snl

The 3 casters work great.......IF, IF you've a balanced load! That does not happen too often. I started off with a wobble, advanced to a slow dance, then ended up doing the shag with the extractor leading!!! Now it's bolted to the garage floor when in use..........


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## KQ6AR

Mounted 3 castors to the legs of our 20 frame Maxant last week. I'm very surprised how well it it did.


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## wildman

KQ6AR said:


> You guys have me convinced to try some wheels on my new 20 frame.



It's like a washing machine they put springs on each corner so the machine doesn't destroy itself , if i had to do it over again i would use wider rubber wheels.


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## homegrown

Can you fit a 5 gallon bucket under the honey gate with yours bolted to the garage floor? I'm thinking of bolting mine down this weekend.


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## challenger

I have a Maxalt 20 frame that's bolted down and a 5 gallon bucket fits under the gate but just barely so I use a 4. The clearance isn't enough with a 5 imo for changing the screens etc.


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## Phoebee

We have a 4' x 4' piece of half inch plywood with three flat-head bolts protruding up, held in by T-nuts. The feet of the extractor bolt down to the plywood, and we stand on the plywood. If it had the audacity to move, at least we would move with it.

Eventually we'll build a honey room with anchor points in the floor.


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## Phoebee

D A V E said:


> I plan on doing my extracting in the garage so I will bolt mine to the floor 3 small holes in the concrete 3/16 " to run some Tap Cons in when done back them out until next time . Simple easy and sturdy.


The problem with TapCons is they are screws and will bugger out the holes after a few removals and installations. I've got some anchors in my garage floor for another application, some steel devices with machine screw threads. I drilled the correct size for these, drop in the anchors, then strike a punch down the middle to set an expansion cone in the bottom. These are available in many sizes. McMaster-Carr calls these drop-in anchors, and an example of a part number is 97083A290 for their 1/4-20 size, or 97083A310 for their 3/8-16.

Life got easier once I got a good power hammer drill and proper hammer drill bits.


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## homegrown

Thanks for the input. I have a Dadant 6-12 with the stainless steel stand. My plan is to drill 3 holes in the concrete garage floor for the SS stand, and epoxy 3/8" female drop-in inserts in the concrete holes. Then I can run a hex bolt through the ss stand into the female drop-in insert. The inserts should sit flush with the surface of the floor if I decide to move it. Any problems with this idea? Anyone
Mounted there's like this? Thanks


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## Phoebee

Just a minor suggestion that I use on my floor anchors. Most of the year the anchors are not in use, so run a threaded plug into them so they don't get filled up with crud. Allen head set screws or just cut off bolt ends with a slot will do fine.


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## Dave S

Use castor's you'll never look back. They act as shock absorbers and take all the stress off the extractor, mine will set there and wiggle a little until it balances out, I've never had it move more than a foot or so. The first time I tried them I thought "of course". I used to bolt mine down solid and worry about the stress on all the parts. If I was smart enough I'd post a you tube of it running but I'm lucky to make a phone call on the first try most days. Use three castors, the bigger the better, I started out with 4 and on an slopped floor it would teeter a little.
Dave


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## homegrown

Thanks dave. I'm sold. Where did you get your casters? Would you get better quality if you could do it over again. Some of the heavy duty casters are darn expensive.


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## homegrown

I know nothing about physics. Will a larger caster wheel be better in this application and absorb more of the energy? Or will it allow the extractor to move around more? Could it move around so much as to unplug it self from the wall?


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## EastSideBuzz

One thing I like about not bolting it down is I can tip it to get all the honey out. I really wish the 1400 was slanted so the honey ran out easier. But, I tip mine and all the honey comes out. If I bolted it I would bolt it on hinges so I can tip it for that last bit of honey. I have mine on casters and can take it outside to let the girls clean it out for me at the end of extracting season. I use 2 cinder blocks on the base and start my spin slow and then when it balances out crank it up. Some times it walks on me so I never spin with the gate open. That makes a mess sometimes and I can prove it. I line my floor with cardboard 4x4 squares and then take them outside and let the girls clean them for me also. When it is to messy I just recycle them.


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## lharder

I have an old Maxant 20 frame hand cranked extractor on a home made metal stand with 4 legs. Wasn't quite high enough to get a bucket and screen under it so I got a solid wooden door screwed in some 2 by 4's and put divots in the 2 X4's that the metal legs fit into. It doesn't move and I can tilt to get almost all of the honey out. Start slow to get most of the honey out and that takes care of unbalanced combs of honey and rocking.


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## Mefco

My Maxant 3100 on wheels

https://youtu.be/QzijpCAc5o0


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## Bob J

Mefco said:


> My Maxant 3100 on wheels
> 
> https://youtu.be/QzijpCAc5o0


Much appreciate the video.... Is your bucket on wheels also or does it stay located ok sitting on the floor?


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## Mefco

The bucket is on its own wheeled platform, bungee corded to extractor, they just dance around together...


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## Bob J

Mefco said:


> The bucket is on its own wheeled platform, bungee corded to extractor, they just dance around together...


Excellent! Thanks!


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## kaizen

Just another reason to secure the extractor 
Backed up into my extractor and we both fell leaving a nasty gash yesterday. That steel slices like a knife


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## EastSideBuzz

On my Maxant I put a barrel strap heater and it keeps the extracted honey at 95 so it flows though the filter better. I sometimes have boxes that are at room temp so it takes more to get the honey though the filter.


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## appalachianoutdoors

*My new extractor dolly*

I mounted my extractor this week to a 1" piece of plywood I had with 4 5" swivel caster wheels. I left space for my buckets to sit on the dolly but also measured it to fit through a doorway and to have enough room to hold my uncapping tub and buckets while in storage. I liked 4 wheels vs. 3 wheels for stability. If it tipped over coming over a threshold or over a crack somewhere, I'd be sick about it.


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## Dave S

*Re: My new extractor dolly*

That looks a lot like my set up, my deck is a little bigger with some 1x2 nailed down to keep the pail under the gate. I used 4" wheels because that's what I had, try Harbor Freight for casters


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## Ravenseye

*Re: My new extractor dolly*

I've had casters under my Maxant for years and love it. I lend it out from time to time and the wheels also make it easier to move it around. I used to have it bolted down, first to the barn floor and then to the concrete garage floor but it was a lot of work. One other trick is to buy a few squares of those 2x2 interlocking foam pieces that you can use in your shop or in front of your work bench. Piece a couple together and put them under the casters of the extracted. The extra "give" in the foam pretty much eliminates what's left of the walking.


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## JohnOh2018

StevenG said:


> I too took my extractor for a spin two weeks ago... new 20 frame Dadant. On a stand, not bolted down. It didn't walk. I balanced the frames as I loaded the extractor, then started it out slow, built up speed as the frames continued to become more balanced. Minimum vibration, no walking. My cappings spinner is another story, however. :lpf: Regards, Steven


 I bolted the wooden pallet to the floor. I also got a piece of melamine coated chip board, bolted the spinner to that, and attached it to to pallet with two hinges. Then I added a bolt and wing nut to the rear of the chip board. Why? Well instead of having the spinner with a few kilo of honey in the bottom (bad honey tap placement) I can now tilt it forward and get the lot out. It also comes in handy for cleaning after use. Dont forget a restraining chain to .prevent it toppling forward when left to drain as it can damage the spinner. Previous experience with another unit. Why can't the design the units with a tap so it drains properly°???.


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## JConnolly

Fuzzy said:


> Guys, guys, guys....
> 
> Give up on all the bolts, plates, and weights. Instead secure machine to a sheet of heavy plywood AND then bolt 3 large swivel caster wheel in a triangle pattern around the outside of legs (like for a furniture dollies ).
> 
> It is counter-intuitive I know. BUT IT REALLY WORKS!!! The machine will wobble gently as it spins up. The faster you spin, the less it wobbles. It will certainly want to move around the floor but gentle hand pressure is all it will take to keep it in one place. This also takes the pressure off of the extractor bearings and they will last much longer -- probably forever.
> 
> Give it a try -- Fuzzy


This is an old thread, but I did the same thing. I decided to let it walk and I put it on casters. Surprise, it nearly stays in place, doesn't make a racket, and there is less stress on the legs. It will slowly wander on a hard floor, but a soft rubber mat is enough to keep it from wandering.


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## JohnOh2018

A car wheel mounted horizontally bolted to the pallet/platform , with half water inside it, which sloshes around, will stabilise the platform. A unit on springs that are not too stiff will also work. You do not want a race car with very stiff suspension,as it wont corner, neither do you want a rotating mass to be too solid as it will break its supports. It helps to have frames with equal weight of honey opposing each other. But you already knew that.


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