# Honey B Healthy question



## LSPender (Nov 16, 2004)

I am looking at using H B H this fall and would like to mix my own. What suggestions for ingrediants would be suggested?

Plan to mix in syrup and pollen patties.

Thanks, Larry


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

Syrup - Sugar and water and lemon grass and spearmint oil. You just need a drop of each...too much will drive you out of the kitchen. The bees love it.

Patties - Brewers yeast, sugar, lemon grass and spearmint oil, citric acid, conola oil and water.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*Is this the Licithin to use in Home Made Honey-B-Healthy?*

Licithin granules. Buy 1 get 2. Buy 2 get 4.

http://www.puritansale.com/pages/fi...cm_guid=1-_-100000000000000026465-_-825055164

The product seems to be a good price and the appropriate one for the mix.

I have found two informational resources about the essential oils.
1.0 One uses speramint oil.
2.0 One uses wintergreen oil
I think that I will use the wintergreen oil.
It's interesting how research is done on the use of the "goodies" in "Honey-B-Healthy". The author does not give the ratios of the "goodies" But, you can buy the product.* Is'nt that a conflick of interest in research?* You use grant money for the research and then you sell the results. I thought that research was to become public domain!

Regards,
Ernie Lucas Apiaries


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*Licithin 30 ounce size*

http://www.puritansale.com/pages/file.asp?pid=367&cid=64&cpid=193&rlid=

Regards,
Ernie


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

Good question Bee4u. You may be able to find the ratios if it was funded by public money by filing a freedom of information form to that university or whatever agency supplied the grant money.

But....in that same light. The government gives billions to pharmaceutical companies for research and when they come up with a drug that works they patent it...so I am not exactly sure how the whole thing works. 

Maybe I will research it more...can't hurt to get a million dollar grant to see what color bees like best.


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## rainesridgefarm (Sep 4, 2001)

*here is the research*

http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/varroa/varroa2.htm

been using this and works great. emulsifier is important and lecthin(sp) works great


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*emulsifier is important and Licthin works great*

Thank you for the information.
I think that I will order the 30 ounce Licithin manufactured by Pilgram' Pride
Regards,
Ernie


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

I have used lemon grass oil and spearmint oil with great success but in reading the research I can't find where it talks about Licithin. Maybe I am missing it. 

Do you guys use it in patties or syrup?


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## Dale Hodges (Jul 13, 2007)

The licithin is to help keep the oils suspended in the water. Without it your oils will float to the top killing bees, its to strong in its pure form. I like the liquid capsules they sell, easier to mix IMO...drug stores ..health food stores


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*Liquid Licithin source*

http://www.puritansale.com/pages/file.asp?cid=64&cpid=10342&pid=7147
Regards,
Ernie


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## Texas Bee (Mar 21, 2008)

Hey guy's how will this effect the SHB's. will their larva eat it as well ?


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*like the liquid capsules they sell*

I tried some of the lecithin capsules that I cut the end off and they did not disolve in water very well.
I think this is a better method of getting the materials together before mixing into water.

1oo mls of alcohol, add lecithin, add essential oils, add water, mix, add sugar, mix, pour into a 5 gallon plastic gas can, and cap for storage.

Comments are welcomed.
Regards,
Ernie Lucas Apiaries


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*Hey guy's how will this effect the SHB's. will their larva eat it as well ?*

I do not have any information about the HBH and the SHB at this time.
Regards,
Ernie


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*Do you guys use it in patties or syrup?*

I will be using my formula of HBH in sucrose syrup.
Regards,
Ernie


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## Ishi (Sep 27, 2005)

Ernie;
Add dry lecithin to water let set over night and in the morning shake and it is mixed.

Some Health Food Grocery Stores sell it in bulk.


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## rainesridgefarm (Sep 4, 2001)

*boiling helps*

I bring one quart of water to a boil then add one teaspoon of lecithin and it will mix. Let cool to room temp then pour half in a blender. On the lowest setting blend in oil drop by drop to get your emulsion. When all the oil is added and mixing well add on drop of hand dish soap to keep in emulsified. You need to do the math on the amounts of oil to syrup in your final mix to feed the bees so you do not overwell them.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*Dry lecithin*

Ishi,
Thank you for the information on the dry lecithin!

BTY: When I was at Chico State back in 58 I picked up a booklet about Ishi who was a Modoc Indian. I found the booklet interesting as it described the life of Native American!

Regards,
Ernie


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## Texas Bee (Mar 21, 2008)

alpha6 said:


> Syrup - Sugar and water and lemon grass and spearmint oil. You just need a drop of each...too much will drive you out of the kitchen. The bees love it.
> 
> Patties - Brewers yeast, sugar, lemon grass and spearmint oil, citric acid, conola oil and water.





To make 5 and 10 lbs. blocks, what are the weights per ingredients.
Like the sugar, 5lbs. brewers yeast 1/4lbs. and so on ?


Thanks in advance.


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

Hey Tex,

I have the measurements for making a 50 lb batch. I will get it to you today..I am not in my office where the "recipe" is. It helps to have a small cement mixer to whip this up. I guess you can cut it in half to make 25 lbs and by 1/4 to make 12.5 batch...which you may be able to do if you have a large mixer.

I'll get it to you later this evening. Works great...nice healthy fat bees. 

I have never had a problem with getting my lemongrass and spearmint oils to mix...but I may give lecithin a try and see how it works in. Always looking for better ways...


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## Texas Bee (Mar 21, 2008)

Thanks alpha 6.... Fat bees is what we need. And alot of them.


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## Trevor Mansell (Jan 16, 2005)

Could I get a copy of that recipe?


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*Dry lecithin availability.*

I drove to the following places today shopping for the dry lecithin flakes or granules.
COSTCO: 20 stores discontinued it 1/19/08

SAMS: None.

WALMART: NONE

Lecithin gel capsules: Rite-Aid and Walmark.
I cut the tip off 50 of the 400 mg capsules and disolved the lecithin in 80 proof Vodka. I used 200 mls of the Vodka, shook the mixture,let it set for 30 minutes, and it did not settle out. --so far.
Regards,
Ernie


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## Texas Bee (Mar 21, 2008)

BEES4U said:


> I drove to the following places today shopping for the dry lecithin flakes or granules.
> COSTCO: 20 stores discontinued it 1/19/08
> 
> SAMS: None.
> ...



Bees4u, wally world does not carry it. I did the same thing you did today. 

You need to go to your local Vitamin Shop. 

I got 1 ( lecithin granules )today 16 oz size for $9.99, they have a much bigger one than that size. The Tea Tree oil was there too. it was $10.99 big bottle. Essential Peppermint oil was $6.23


http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/store/en/index.jsp?_requestid=512893


http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/search/en/query.jsp?q=lecithin+granules&intsource2=main
I'am ready to mix....


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lecithin


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## Texas Bee (Mar 21, 2008)

Trevor Mansell said:


> Could I get a copy of that recipe?




Hey Trevor, I found this while looking around. This may help.



http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Beekeeping/Recipes_for_the_Bees


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## RDY-B (May 20, 2007)

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188758&highlight=recipe+honey+he http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213757&highlight=recipe+honey+healthy  RDY-B


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*You need to go to your local Vitamin Shop.*

Texas Bee,
Thank you for your information.
I have two stores within 16 to 20 miles of home.
This forum really works in many ways!

regards,
Ernie


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

*Pollin Patty Recipe (Large Batch)*

Ok guys here it is. 

50 lbs of Brewers Yeast
50 lbs of Sugar or Cane Syrup
2 cups of HBH or you can add 2 ozs ea of Spearmint and Lemon Grass Oil 
1 lb of citric acid
96 ozs of Conola oil
and water as you go.

Mix it all together and add the water slowly. Hot or near boiling water works best. Bring it to a paste and make sure it is well mixed. The thicker the patty the better. 

With this size, a small cement mixer is advisable.

Additionally, anything else that would be good for bees can be added, like lecithin.

You can cut it down if you like, just reduce the ingredients by whatever measure you want. You can also double it if you have a big cement mixer.


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## Texas Bee (Mar 21, 2008)

Thanks A-6.......


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## Hambone (Mar 17, 2008)

Just to chime in. I called my local Vitamin shop today. And asked about lecithin, lemmon grass oil and a few other things. He did not have it in stock but he could have it in 2 days from his supplier. So if you check/order some of those things from a local, you won't have to pay extra freight. They can just add it to there stock order.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*Honey-B-healthy supplies.*

I picked up all of my supplies at a local source. (Lassen's Foods in Ventura)
More economical than on-line and you are right about no freight charges.

Regards,
Ernie Lucas Apiaries


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*Sodium Laurel Sulfate in Honey-B-Healthy*

FYI: Some information that I located 8/19/08

http://www.epa.gov/oppsrrd1/REDs/factsheets/4061fact.pdf

*Sodium lauryl sulfate is used as a flea and tick repellant in one
registered pesticide product--a flea and tick shampoo for cats and dogs.*Sodium lauryl sulfate also is a widely used component of many nonpesticidal
consumer products currently marketed in the United States,
including shampoos and fruit juices.

http://aolsearch.aol.com/aol/search...D+STATES+PRODUCERS+OF+SODIUM+LAUREL+SULPHATE+

*This inexpensive detergent is commonly used in cosmetic cleansers, hair shampoos, bath and shower gels, bubble baths, etc. - It is probably the most dangerous ingredient used in skin and hair-care products. In the cleaning industry SLS is used in garage floor cleaners, engine degreasers, car-wash soaps, etc. It is very corrosive and readily attacks greasy surfaces.*
Sodium lauryl sulfate is used throughout the world for clinical testing as a primary skin irritant. Laboratories use it to irritate skin on test animals and humans so that they may then test healing agents to see how effective they are on the irritated skin.

*A study at the University of Georgia Medical College, indicated that SLS penetrated into the eyes as well as brain, heart, liver, etc., and showed long-term retention in the tissues. The study also indicated that SLS penetrated young children's eyes and prevented them from developing properly and caused cataracts to develop In adults.*
May cause hair loss by attacking the follicle. Classified as a drug in bubble baths because it eats away skin protection and causes rashes and infection to occur.

Is potentially harmful to skin and hair. Cleans by corrosion. Dries skin by stripping the protective lipids from the surface so it can't effectively regulate moisture.

Another extremely serious problem is the connection of SLS with nitrate contamination. SLS reacts with many types of ingredients used in skin products and forms nitrosomines (nitrates). Nitrates are potential cancer-causing carcinogenics.

Because of the alarming penetrating power of SLS, large amounts of these known carcinogens are absorbed through the skin into the body. A variation of SLS is SODIUM LAURETH SULFATE (Sodium Lauryl Ether Sulfate- SLES). It exhibits many of the same characteristics and is a higher-foaming variation of SLS.

Regards,
Ernie Lucas Apiaries.


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## danno (Dec 17, 2007)

*the recipe I use*

General Purpose Essential Oil Mixture

A well known commercially available general purpose essential oil product for bees that is similar to the following recipe claims many benefits even though many of those claims have yet to be proven. The following recipe should work about as well as that product and is way cheaper. It can be added in small quantities to feed to encourage feeding. It has been known to occasionally cause robbing behavior due to its great appeal to bees.

> 5 cups water
> 2 1/2 pounds of sugar
> 1/8 teaspoon lecithin granules (used as an emulsifier)
> 15 drops spearmint oil
> 15 drops lemongrass oil

Bring the water to a boil and stir in the sugar until it is dissolved. Once the sugar is dissolved remove the mixture from the heat and quickly add the lecithin and the essential oils. Stir the mixture thoroughly. This solution should have a strong scent and not be left open around bees. Cool before using.


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## stangardener (Mar 8, 2005)

danno said:


> General Purpose Essential Oil Mixture
> 
> > 5 cups water
> > 2 1/2 pounds of sugar
> ...


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## danno (Dec 17, 2007)

stangardener said:


> danno said:
> 
> 
> > General Purpose Essential Oil Mixture
> ...


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## Texas Bee (Mar 21, 2008)

Bees4U .....Send the searches...



Girls gett'in the grub on.



http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk23/mikemcvey/0820081755.jpg

Belly up to the bar girls... It's on the house.........


I'll check them in the morning to see how they are doing, on the feed mix.


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

Tex!! You got leeches in your hives!!! 

See now you are going to go and spoil um.


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## thinkharder (Jun 13, 2008)

Stangardener, just making sure you know, but you only use one tablespoon of the solution per gallon of actual feed (syrup).

And for everyone else, do you think there's any difference using peppermint as opposed to spearmint in the home made HBH formula?


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## thinkharder (Jun 13, 2008)

Hmm, finally found a page on essential oils that say spearmint has less menthol in it than peppermint. Perhaps that's why it was chosen over peppermint.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*Essential oils web site*

http://www.anniesremedy.com/chart_aroma.php

Ernie


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*Bees4U .....Send the searches...*

Check your PM .
Ernie


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## stangardener (Mar 8, 2005)

thinkharder said:


> Stangardener, just making sure you know, but you only use one tablespoon of the solution per gallon of actual feed (syrup).
> 
> thanks thinkharder. the reason i double checked on the amount of sugar is because everything i add hbh to has sugar in it already. syrup is already full of sugar and so are my patties. i was given a quart of hbh earlier in the year and when it's gone this fall i'll make my own. i've listened to two large bee producers who would never bother with the product in the past say it's helped their bees. right now i'm adding it to patties but not syrup. in my experiance their is more chance of robbing with it in syrup.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

BEES4U said:


> Check your PM .
> Ernie


Sorry Ernie it ended up being you, but it was bound to happen sooner or later. 

I am adding to the posting rules the following:

Do not post messages that instruct other members to check their Private Messages or inform them that a PM was sent. If you need to communicate with another member about their PM's, PM them or send them an email.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*Sorry Ernie it ended up being you, but it was bound to happen sooner or later*

Barry,
It's ok!
I will use the alternate route.
Thanks
Ernie


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## Texas Bee (Mar 21, 2008)

Two Questions.....



Who has a good price on HBH....?


And where can I get some Critic acid ....?


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## LSPender (Nov 16, 2004)

*Thanks, for the input*

Hello everyone, Thanks for the input.

I left the day after posting the question about HBH, and just reviewed all 44 posts and am a lot smarter for it.

I will be mixing up some batches to add to syrup and pollen patties. I believe adding this to the mix will greatly help. More and more I feel like a feed lot operator, but if it works I am for it.

I took a 10 day tour with family looking at honey country in Idaho, Montana, Utah & Wyoming. America is BIG!!! and beautiful. Managed to catch some trout in the Salmon ID area. My six and 1/2 year old daughter caught her first trout, 13" and delicious.

If anyone is aware of beekeepping operations for sale in these states I would be interested to know about it. 


Thanks again,

Larry Pender
Camarillo, CA

Larr


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

You were in all those areas and didn't visit Colorado???


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## Hambone (Mar 17, 2008)

*Prices?*

Here is what I was quoted from my local store. How do these prices sound?

lecithin granules 12 oz $12.30 I know this one is a little high
spearmint oil .5oz $5.15
lemongrass oil .5oz $4.75


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## LSPender (Nov 16, 2004)

*The Voice*

You were in all those areas and didn't visit Colorado??? 

Alpha6, I thought about it, but I heard a voice in my head that said "Go west young man". The voice got louder after day 7 on the road when I realized it was not in my head but the passanger seat and she (wife) did not have the look of love in her eyes. So I listened to the voice and we are home.

Larry


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*The Voice*

Ahhhhhhhh. The voice of matramonial bliss!
Let's get this thing right. You drop a ? on us and then go on vacation.
You missed all the fun we had doing your work.
Ernie


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## Hambone (Mar 17, 2008)

danno said:


> General Purpose Essential Oil Mixture
> 
> A well known commercially available general purpose essential oil product for bees that is similar to the following recipe claims many benefits even though many of those claims have yet to be proven. The following recipe should work about as well as that product and is way cheaper. It can be added in small quantities to feed to encourage feeding. It has been known to occasionally cause robbing behavior due to its great appeal to bees.
> 
> ...


I made this to the tee tonight. The Lecithin did not totally dissove. Is this normal/ok. 

I had a little left over and it smelt great so I had to try it. First a finger dip.  Then one of my daughters chicken nuggets into it. Pretty.....Pretty......Pretty Good


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

Careful....next you will be out sucking on flowers trying to get nectar out of them.


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## Flyman (Jun 11, 2007)

I have many years experience as a commercial candy maker. Lecithin granules are a pain to disolve. In recipes where it did not matter, we used liquid lecithin (lecithin already disolved in oil). Has anybody tried this? You can buy liquid lecithin at a bakery supply or health food store.

Tom


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## John Fulp (Apr 27, 2008)

*Lecithin granules*

Bring a small pan of water to a vigorous boil....pour lecithin granules into boiling water and whisk vigriously......when cool, you can add to your sugar mix. Remember, this is just an emulsifier for adding your oils to a "COOL" sugar mix so they don't evaporate.

John


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

That's the route I finally went after having trouble with the granules not dissolving. I made enough to last for years, I keep it in the refrigerator.

I used to spray it on all my new PC so the bees would take to it faster, I don't bother with it anymore.


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## florida pollinator (Jul 31, 2006)

I see the amounts listed for mixing up ready to feed sryup. Has anyone figured up the amounts to make pure mixes to then be added to feed. By the cost of the oils, and other stuff in HBH, there has to be some filler ,i.e. water added into making say 5 gallons of HBH, has anyone calculated these amounts?


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## John Lockhart (Feb 13, 2005)

HBH is 5%lenongrass oil, and 5% spearmint oil. The other 90% is sugar water. To make a gallon of it you put 6.5 oz. of each oil in a gallon of water. That gallon of hbh will treat 200 gallons of syrup. That will feed 100 hives at the recomended rate. 
As you can see, you are going to need a whole lot more than 15 drops of this and that to treat a commercial outfit. Most of us commercial beeks buy our oil gallons at a time. I do not think the guy asking about prices of 1/2 oz. bottles of oil is on the right forum.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*HBH in fluid ounces*

6.5 fluid ounces =
30 ml/ fluid ounce X 6.5 = 195 ml of Lemongrass oil

195 ml of lemongraas oil + 195 ml of spearmint oil = 390 ml

Now we need to add the emulsifier. I estimate it to be at least one teaspoon of the dry granules.

I add the SLS as needed.

Please correct my math or application.
Thanks!
Ernie lucas Apiaries


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## Ishi (Sep 27, 2005)

Ernie;


I add the SLS as needed.

Where do you buy the SLS?


Thanks,


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## florida pollinator (Jul 31, 2006)

Thanks guys, that's what i was needed to be sure of, when mixing up feed for 4 or 5 totes of 200 gallons of sryup and not over use the additives, since even doing your own is not cheap with the lemon grass and spearmint in large amounts used.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*SLES source: Essential Wholesale located in Oregon.*

*Sodium Laureth Sulfate (SLES) - 16 fl oz*
The Laureth form is not as harsh as the SLS
They shipped the next day after I ordered on-line. It was delivered in 3 days.
A little SLS goes a long way. I used it on some liquid lecithin and it did help to emulsify the globs that were floating on the top of 5 gallons.
I added 20 ml / 5 gallons of stock solution, mixed, and sealed the plastic gas jug.
*As with all chemicals use with caution.*
http://www.essentialwholesale.com/product_p/473.htm

Regards,
Ernie


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## Ishi (Sep 27, 2005)

Ernie;

Thanks


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## Trevor Mansell (Jan 16, 2005)

Do you have to heat the luquid lecithin when combining the oils?


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*Do you have to heat the luquid lecithin*

Trevor,
Use the dry lecethin granules.
The liquid is very difficult to mix even when you use alcohol!
Ernie


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## jams bees (Oct 4, 2008)

For those who want to mix large batches of pollen substitute there is a great little mortar mixer available from Kushlan. Available at Home Depot, WW Grainger etc. It takes one 50 lb bag of pollen substitute per batch and turns out 120 lbs of mixture per batch when all is added. Add one quart of SOY oil per batch along with your syrup or sugar. http://kushlanproducts.com/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=32


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## swarm_trapper (Jun 19, 2003)

hey guys i mixed up a batch last night enough for 5 gal of HBH, so i put in a quart of spermint an lemon grass, and then about 10tsp of lecthin granuals.
i first put in 6 tsp of the lecthin, but it was gobbing up yet so i put more in it did not gob up now,BUT the problem is it looks like after sitting over night it seperated i think water or the lemon grass came to the top is this normal after i stired it a little it was mixed nice bu will probably seperate. So is the seperation normal i did not add the SLS.
thanks nick


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

*about 10tsp of lecthin granuals.*

The lecithin is added to the water first.
Ernie


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## dragonfly (Jun 18, 2002)

BEES4U said:


> The lecithin is added to the water first.
> Ernie


And much easier to mix with the water just below the boiling point.


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## Ishi (Sep 27, 2005)

Add the lecithin to the water and let set over night.Ready to add to the mix the next day with no heat.


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## swarm_trapper (Jun 19, 2003)

so i did another batch mixed in 3 tsp of lecithin with 1 gal of water i had the water boiling but there is still lecithin sitting on the top of the water, do i need the SLS? regards Nick


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

swarm_trapper said:


> but there is still lecithin sitting on the top of the water, do i need the SLS? regards Nick


Ok Nick,

Take that can of lecithin granuals and through it in the blender and turn it to power.


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## beebze (Sep 24, 2007)

Just wanted to keep this in line site


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