# How Much Is Your Apiary Worth$?



## mr.newbee (Jun 13, 2012)

how much money do you think your bee-farm is worth? just curious as to what thoughts are on this. so how many hives and how much is your apiary worth? i know someone with around 100 hive and and he says they are worth 30,000$, how bout yours?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Not much to someone other than another beekeeper and not much at all to someone who isn't a beekeeper.

What is your business worth?


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

In boxes and extracting equipment I have about $6000. It was mostly bought used and I have bought 14 nucs and about two dozen queens, half of which I may never recieve and I have around forty colonies and the equipment to run eighty to 100. I would suppose my assets are worth around $18-20,000 if the right person wanted it. If the drouth continues and I need to purchase a ton of sugar to get these bees thru the winter, it is just a sinking asset! A thing is worth whatever someone will pay you for it.


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## K.E.N. (May 5, 2011)

Hey Vance I'll give you $1000.00 for all of it. LOL I actually have a great spot for my hives. They're sitting in the middle of approximately 900 acres of clover and alfalfa that only gets cut twice a year! Pretty Sweet! In all actuality if location and/or contracts for pollination services are included it could be worth a heck of alot more.


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## Beeslave (Feb 6, 2009)

Definately more then when I started and it's also worth more then I have invested into it.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

$600 with about $250 invested.


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## Sharpbees (Jun 26, 2012)

Equipment and all would probably be worth several thousand. The enjoyment I get from working with these little critters...Priceless!


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

The op question is a good one.
How much is it worth?
Is this the number I've invested? The number I could sell it for? The number I would sell it for?
Do I have to include my time? A lost opportunity cost?
I don't know the answer to any of these. That is why I haven't decided to go all in.
I would guess that many commercial guys couldn't answer all these question if put on the spot!


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

The question is too vague. Define worth. What something is worth and what someone is willing to pay for it are two intirely different things. What you have invested in your operation, I won't say business because I don't think anyone who has answered this question other than I is actually in the beekeeping business, is not what it is worth. No more so than what a brand new car which you paid $40,000.00 for is worth the moment you drive it off the lot. When you do, it is worth half what you paid for it, on average. Or is that the mean?

I don't know if anyone can truely satisfactorily answer the Thread Title question. But, give it a shot.


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## lazy shooter (Jun 3, 2011)

The market determines what most things are worth. I have invested somewhere in the neighborhood of $1,400 to $1,500 dollars in equipment, three packages and four splits. Hmmmm that doesn't count the sugar I fed the three packages last summer and fall due to the drought. Make that $1,700 bucks, more or less. To this date I have not harvested any honey. Oh, and that doesn't count the BeeWeaver queen that one of my splits killed. I'm glad I haven't done up the books on the bees for this year.

Hey, I'm an old guy with a few extra bucks and the bees are one of my "back to nature" projects. In my mind it's money well spent, and for the fun I've had with the bees it has been cheap intertainment.


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## casinoken (May 6, 2012)

I have less than $1000 total invested in my 3 hives, but u would have to get deep in your pocket to pay for the enjoyment and frustration that I have recieved from the girls. I love it, and that commands a steep price in my book.


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## spunky (Nov 14, 2006)

I have 700$ wrapped up in all my equipment , hives , jacket, gloves. Whats it worth right now? I could proabably sell everything 2 big hives, one deep nuc , extra equipment feeders, frames for 500$ . It is just a hobby for me and always will be. I budget between 100-200$ a year for expenses , this year I will go over due to the drought and having to feed . Apparently alot of non-beeks think honeybees are low maintence and free because they always want handouts : {


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## mr.newbee (Jun 13, 2012)

Nice answers, but from a business perspective, this does factor how secured a market you have for honey and other value added products, contracts ect. the beeking organization for my area says a decent population hive in production is worth Aprx. 250$. but i guess a thing really is worth what you can get for it anyway. that being said, with the Right beeking business i think it could be worth lot more, with secured markets for ur honey and contracts ect+ a good location. dontcha think?


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

If you keep bees as a business. Wouldn't you need to know the value of your equipment for tax purposes? Don't you devalue it etc. Also don't you know the exact value of anything regarding your business the moment you go to sell it? I can see that a business owner would not know the value of the entire business at any given moment. But let them think about selling it and they would not often fail to come up with a number.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

This is a problem for beekeepers w/ operations of size when they look towards the end of their beekeeping career, if they don't have a next generation to pass the business on to.

Mr.Newbee, were I to sell my business, perhaps the many outlets I service would be of value to someone and maybe they wouldn't. I have no contracts w/ these outlets. Simply their willingness to buy from me and my ability to sell to them. Your question implies an opinion that such accounts make one money, making them valuable assets of the business. This is debatable.


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## lazy shooter (Jun 3, 2011)

Most businesses are worth some multiple of their annual income, say five to eight times their annual income. This only applies if you have a desirable business that others want to own and operate. If your net annual income is say 20 grand then your business would be worth 100 to 160 thousand bucks, assuming there are buyers wanting your business. With all the uncertainties associated with bee keeping, I would not think there would be a large pool of buyers. Bee keeping is a fun hobby and a tough business.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

My banker once told me that he has never dealt with any other business where that multiple that LS speaks of is so high. It is not at all unusual for a bee operation to gross well over 50% of its approximate value in one year. Of course it may do much closer to zero as well. The OP asks a question that only my banker has ever had cause to ask me, of course I am a commercial operation. The real honest answer of course is I wouldnt have the slightest idea what number the highest bidder in an auction might pull out of the air. Depends largely on a lot of "blue sky" stuff like the price of honey, time of year, the location and condition of the bees, whether locations are included and what the production history of those locations has been in addition to all the usual estimates of what it might "part out for". Dosent seem like that many years ago that estimates of $100 a round for a going turnkey operation was realistic, today it clearly is much, much higher depending on all the factors I listed.


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## StevenG (Mar 27, 2009)

Metal ware - extractor, tanks, uncapping tank, etc etc - $3k
Wood - lumber from sawmill, frames, covers, etc etc - $2k
Bees - packages and queens, swarms caught - $?
Time spent in the apiary during a flow, watching the bees like rush hour on a 10-lane urban interstate? Priceless!
Regards,
Steven


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## NewJoe (Jul 1, 2012)

I have one hive so far just started a couple months ago. I have no idea what I have spent...afraid to keep up with it..lol.

What's it worth? PRICELESS!


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## MJuric (Jul 12, 2010)

*How much is it worth?
The number I could sell it for?*

It's always worth what you could sell it for. How much you've invested is meaningless and what you want for it is also meaningless..well meaningless to everyone else  

There are two ways to arrive at this number short of actually selling it. First you can do it the way they do houses by looking at comparable sales or you can do it more like a business based on a combination of asset value and history of profits.

I think to most on the hobby end of things the value is very low. What you put into it in purchased equipment is like a car and goes down, probably dramatically, once there are bees in it. That is somewhat offset by the value of the bees themselves. 

On the other hand as a hobbyist you have the luxury of selling to an individual that is buying more on "Want" than "Business" so you might be able to sell 5-10 colonies at ridiculously high prices because the people you're selling to just wants bees. That's not going to happen with a business unless you catch someone with more money than brains which has been known to happen. A person buying a business is doing so to make money. If they can't do that there's no reason for buying the business.

~Matt


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## MJuric (Jul 12, 2010)

*Wouldn't you need to know the value of your equipment for tax purposes?*

You depreciate the purchase price, not the "Value". Look at it this way. If I go out and buy a new car for my business tomorrow for 20K I will depreciate that over some number of years. If I take that car and drive it into a wall right off the lot, assuming no insurance, the "Value" of that car is now nothing more thank junk price. I still get to depreciate the 20K purchase price. 

Bee equipment is probably similar. Let's say you can throw together a hive, two deeps, two mediums, frames, top, bottom but no bees for an initial purchase price of 200$. Once you get that on your property, assembled, and bees in it, almost no one will give you 200$ for the equipment, it's used. You still get to depreciate the 200$ per hive though. You also get to depreciate the cost of the bees, even if they die and end up with zero value.

~Matt


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## MJuric (Jul 12, 2010)

*Most businesses are worth some multiple of their annual income, say five to eight times their annual income. This only applies if you have a desirable business that others want to own and operate.*

I think the idea that the business is worth some multiple of the annual income is true to a point. The other part of the equation are the intangibles like you list, desirability, potential etc.

We've seen this in the past where stock prices, basically a stock is buying a business, being based on the P/E ratio. During the dot com bubble people where buying stock from companies with negative PE ratios, Facebook was something like 80:1 if I recall. 

So if you have a company that people really think has potential they pay a higher multiplier. For bees let's say you have a guy who is a profitable bee keeper. He wants to expand. HE goes and looks at another outfit looking to sell. He sees all sorts of things the guy is doing incorrectly and sees a bunch of things he can do to increase profits. The business will be worth more to him than someone else that doesn't see these things...although he will probably try not to pay that much 

"Business evaluation" has actually become a market all it's own. We are constantly getting calls for people that want to come in and see what we are doing and see whether we want to sell, manufacturing, not bees. I'm not so sure manufacturing is all that desirable these days either, but none the less there are buyers and evaluators.

~Matt


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Mr. newbee are you asking about cost or worth? I would think for those running a business and not a hobby fly by night you could just go to your accountant and ask him. I think the answer you would get would be the viewpoint of the IRS or a Bank when applying for a loan. There are rules for depreciation. You can't just buy a 30,000 truck and depreciate the whole thing. You also can't depreciate the whole thing over the allotted time and then sell it for 10 grand without giving back to the IRS. I don't know what the schedule would be for bee wooden ware. I am sure the schedule would be different for the mechanical equipment. Problems do arise if you sell a business and don't know what the value is. You wouldn't want to pay capital gains for 100%. I am not sure what happens when you hand it off to a family member. I am sure some value has to be set.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Tax Accounting and Business Accounting are two different things. And, unless one is experiencing Capital Gains, what your business is worth is of no real business or interest of the IRS.

In one of the business classes I took a while ago, making business descisions according to one's annual tax accounting is a mistake.

Business Plans are good indicators of what one's business is worth. They are required by lending agencys for loan approval.

I will stand by my first answer to this question and ask one of my own, maybe two.

Why does the OPer want to know how much my apiary is worth? Does he want to buy it? Seems like a pretty personal question, don't you think?

How much money do you earn at the job you have? What are all of your assets worth? What is the point of these questions?

That's one thing I am curious about.


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## Pamela White (May 7, 2012)

I just started beeking in March and I tell ya, the information and knowledge that I have gained from these little creatures is totally AMAZING!!! I get frustrated sometimes not knowing what all I am doing, but I tell you, the people here are wonderful and give great advice. I look at the "Big Picture", not at all what it is worth. To me, you can't put a price on things you love to do. Many people have businesses or have jobs that they hate, but when you have something you love to do, it is worth every penny. I started beekeeping for them to help pollenate my orchard and if all they give me is that, then I am satisfied. The honey is like the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. You give in this world and you shall receive.


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## deejaycee (Apr 30, 2008)

sqkcrk said:


> Why does the OPer want to know how much my apiary is worth? Does he want to buy it? Seems like a pretty personal question, don't you think?


Mr Newbee's posts from the thread about going foudnationless to save the cost of foundation included: 



> "so i'm viciously embarking on a 500-1000 hive business venture, by means of rapidly growing into in from rearing and splitting and drastically cut cost by building my own hives i an effort to make this as profitable as possible. the cost of foundation is going to cost me aprx 33us$ (live in jamaica) at a total of around 15000us$ per 500 hives."
> 
> and
> 
> "i want to grow into it quickly and then sell it, the bee industry is just begining to boom here and and there are endless contracts from EU countries that are too large for small local holdings to fill. if i can cheaply grow into a large scale it would be worth a lot more than the start up. "



At this point I'm curious too. 

Mr Newbee, do you have any hives at present? Are you a beekeeper? Do you want to be a beekeeper? Or do you just want to build an asset to sell it?


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## seal62 (Apr 17, 2011)

:lookout: Hobbies and a biz never add up . Para chute ,,6 grand ,15 a lift and a divorce . Duck boat, decoys ,dog food 12 k not including gun or shells , gas, missed work , missed one season in the last 12. Fly fishing ,,au sable river boat, rods , 1000's of hours tiieing flys ,didnt work in the summer for 10 yrs .. ok that was awesome . I did guide ducks and fish but the ppl were a pain , couldnt shoot or fish so i just went with out the income . It was a better day . Lets not start with the dirt bike , the hospital has my records at the ready . I got a skydive next week i cant make because the leg is kinda broken . I started the bike and the wife came out of the house with the crazy look . Bees , This i dig . I just like to watch them ... I dont like getting stiffed by suppliers . The biggest lesson here is finding ppl that you can trust . Im in for about 5k in bees and wood. I make everything but the frames . I got stiffed 3k from a supplier . I can see the good in bad ,,i learned to get a frame of bees threw a mi winter with the help of beesource ..Mike Palmer, Mike Bush , Scottr , Ed , Don , my chat bros and ladies..with boys like these helping how can ya go wrong ? Making money at this is another game . Yes i would like to see some return down the road . Im just not counting on it . The worth of my hives ,,,tranquil sanity .


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## NC Queen Bee (Jun 15, 2012)

Priceless! I have about $300 in each of hive-- wooden ware, wax, copper tops, treated hive stands, bees. I have 10 hives. BUT the 'apiary' doesn't include the extractor, the buckets, gates, strainers, bottles, clothing, honeyhouse and all the extras to make it easier....I would be heartbroken to have to start from scratch again.. It's like my therapy! Yea, it's priceless...


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## bingo223 (Jun 15, 2012)

Maybe $750 but that is just a guess


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## fish_stix (May 17, 2009)

Sometimes I consider PAYING someone to take the dang things!


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## NasalSponge (Jul 22, 2008)

One million dollars!! (pinky on lip)


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

NasalSponge said:


> One million dollars!! (pinky on lip)


Pssst Dr. Evil there are lots of outfits worth that now, better go for 100 mellllllion dollars ha-ha-ha-ha...........


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

fish_stix said:


> Sometimes I consider PAYING someone to take the dang things!


Bring them over,I'll take care of them free you provide the feed etc.
I just want to pull a few frames for splits every couple months!


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## danmcm (May 23, 2012)

lazy shooter said:


> Most businesses are worth some multiple of their annual income,


Ah Blue Sky... It's so pretty let me sell you some.


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## JohnBeeMan (Feb 24, 2004)

If you buy a $1000 horse and feed it $1000 worth of feed for a year it is still only worth $1000. That is assuming that you did not pay too much to start with.

What an apiary is worth is how much you could reasonably get in a sell of the hives and associated equipment. This would vary by season and area of the country and the reason for the sell. Some sell nucs for $90 and others get upwards of $130.

I would say too many variables to get a good answer.


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## Dunkel (Jun 12, 2009)

I was always taught not to ask people has much money or how many cows they had. When asked, I just say too many during the winter and not enough at market time.


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## curios1 (Jul 2, 2012)

i have spent 480.00 to date. and learning. have one colonie i bought 125.00, one swarm i caught.and a 4 frame nuc that is working on rearing a queen right now. enough equipmnet for 12 hives.stuff i dont even now about. i told a friend i would like to get into beekeeping. he up his opened up his barn and told me i was welcome to it all. i guess for now i would have to say I DONT KNO!


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## David Cassity (May 16, 2012)

This is funny. Ive thought about bees from a business perspective but running my own business makes me not want to deal with the numbers. Actually a going beehive has a intrinsic value that hive and bees alone don't. But to determine value you have to decide what you are selling. Honey bees queens hardware nucs. With the finished product then you derermine what is opportunity cost( I think) of the finished product and how to maximize that product. That may be at the cost of your bees / hives / expansion f you are to maximize honey. As well as maximize income by honey( assumed product). The value to sell is 15 times income. Unfortunately it assumes the buyer has the knowledge( employee) to run said operation. You are selling that business not hardware bees apiry.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

As far as the horse and feed comparison. Is a $1000 horse that is then fed $1000 worth of feed now worth $2000? No but you are confusing issues. The cost to maintain a horse worth $1000 was $1000. But just as in bees if you want to make money you have to be able to recoup that cost in some way. Riding fees, stud fees, show prize money, whatever. If you just want to own a horse you eat it as the cost of entertainment. But the horse is still worth $1000.
Bees produce lots of products along the way. honey. wax, propolis, venom, and even the bees themselves can be sold. If you hold onto them until they die you take the loss. sell them and someone else takes that loss. but eventually they will be lost. it is known as perishables.

Used equipment is worthless. This I agree for the most part. But then explain the person that sells a nuc and adds $25 to the cost for the box. Hmmm. is used equipment worthless? I guess it depends on how you go about selling it. Empty used equipment is worthless.

I see the biggest problem is that the majority of beekeepers are not keeping bees as a business. They will pour money out time and time again with little or no concern for money in. Sooner or later some look back and say hey this is thousands of dollars going out I will never recoup that. Well no you are not if you are not trying. Not paying any attention to it. nobody is going to knock down your door to buy from you.

You can come to a group like this and read for hours about how to get and keep bees. And even at that it is shaky probably going to loose a ton of resources type risk. Btu you don't find a lot of support in selling it.

I have 12 plus years experience with another group that had a similar situation. These people made hand crated items and sold them anywhere from $20 up to maybe a high price of 40 or 50 dollars. For years I felt this group of people suffered from a very common affliction. Undervaluing what they did. I and many others addressed this issue for several years and now it is common to see these same people selling there items for $300 plus on a regular basis.

I see the same sort of thing here to a degree. if beekeeper A says their operation is worth $100 they are right. If Bee keeper B says their exact same operation is worth $1000, they are right. But who is more likely to get what they say their operation is worth? In actually practice and for a complicated list of reasons. It is actually beekeeper B. There is more to getting what something is worth than wishing. There is "Knowing" what it is worth, acting like it is worth that. selling it like it is worth it and closing the sale. Someone that thinks they have something worth $1000 is going to do more to sell it than someone with something they think is worth $100.

I had an item I offered at $20 for several months and never sold a one. I was advised to raise the price to $40. So I did. I sold out the very next show before the gates of the market even opened. My entire inventory sold to other vendors at the market. Not knowing what something is worth will kill a sale before it starts. If you think what you have is worthless you will treat it like it's worth less and it will show. You will act like it is worthless and it will show. You will be embarrassed and hesitant about asking a fair price for it and this will set up doubt in your buyer.

If you can't sell something for what it is worth then you are not a salesperson. hire one. But your inability to sell does not change it's value.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

How much is my apiary worth? Which one?


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

If you think that asking what your apiary is worth is to personal of a question. Don't answer it. I ask car collectors what their vehicles are worth all the time. in fact they often start there showing of a car with what it is worth. They also say what they got it for. but I don't think they ever include the cost of gas. insurance and minor maintenance. they will add the high dollar items.

if there is not even a ball park value to anything associated with bees. why is everything associated with bees being sold. Commonly, on a daily basis?

Saying it is to personal along with many other ways to "Not" answer the question is just one of many ways to get around the fact that you don't know. Probably never really cared. Maybe never will.


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## danmcm (May 23, 2012)

So as you can tell most have no clue what thier apiary is worth or even a 20 hive apiary with all two year hives doing well with low mite counts and producing 2 1/2 shallow suppers average per hive on a farm where there is a signed contract to keep the bees on the land for another year.
Most will sell you an apiary but you will be paying for a lot of blue sky based off sales and honey production from the last five years not counting this one or the one a few years back when it was so dry... smile. Alot of business advice here but the best advice is do some market research, get lotsa capital, start slow with 20 hives so you know what to do and how to keep them alive for a couple years then work on becoming the next beekeeping mogul.
I don't wish to offend but if you don't have a good idea of what the answers are to the questions you have asked in several forums your probably not ready to start 1000 hives on 200 acres fondationless with a homemade extractor if you are just checking to see if everyone tells you what you thought to be true I'd still say go slow the picture your are painting makes me fear for you... best of luck with whatever you decide you live in one of the most beautiful contries i have ever seen. I'd brand my equipment and chain it down though.

Daniel


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## lazy shooter (Jun 3, 2011)

I recently looked at a 32 acre blueberry farm for sale in East Texas. The price was 450K. The land with the farm house, barn and shop were valued and appraised at almost 200K. The blueberry sales over the past five years have averaged 50K after material costs (fertilizer and irrigation equipment repair). In brief, this old farmer works full time on his farm and pays taxes on 50K. I am somewhat interested in purchasing this property for one of my nephews to operate, so I called my Capital of Texas (Federal Land Bank) friend and explained the deal in great detail. He told me the price was in line with ag businesses, because if you take the land and the buildings out of the deal, the farmer is asking five times earnings for a well established business. With a commercial bee operation, I would assume the same is true.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

My 4-hive collection is worth $88,495.57. 


That would be in Jamaican dollars at current exchange rate. Did anyone happen to notice where Mr. Newbee is located before they gave advice?? :doh:


I think this would also negate any mention of the _IRS, tax law, and equipment depreciation_.


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

I originally invested approximately $2,000 into the hives for the rooftop garden, education, and research.

I would estimate that the return on that investment in terms of what it has done for students, and the programs it has boot-strapped, is easily worth $20,000 to $100,000.

So while we don't sell any products, the true value of the hives (as a context based catalyst) easily outstrips the initial investment.

What I have learned, especially with regards to biotechnology applications, is priceless. You can't put a price on re-evaluating transgenic bees.


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## danmcm (May 23, 2012)

transgenic bees shudder.

we got this here ****roach gene that we think lets make this protein that may help it resist these miteocides... Buggar now we got Aferican Roach bees picture that one... Monarchs would like to thank everyone for the BT round up ready corn but they are not in attendance today wonder why


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

WLC said:


> I originally invested approximately $2,000 into the hives for the rooftop garden, education, and research.
> 
> I would estimate that the return on that investment in terms of what it has done for students, and the programs it has boot-strapped, is easily worth $20,000 to $100,000.


Wow, talk about value-added. You should take that model and turn it into a business plan.


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

WLC,
20,000 to 100,00 grand.
Can you explain this value? Is it $ per student? Of course some things can't be valued in $$$. I've learned some things of great value that can't be assigned a $ value, even though they often cost me dearly!


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## mr.newbee (Jun 13, 2012)

danmcm said:


> So as you can tell most have no clue what thier apiary is worth or even a 20 hive apiary with all two year hives doing well with low mite counts and producing 2 1/2 shallow suppers average per hive on a farm where there is a signed contract to keep the bees on the land for another year.
> Most will sell you an apiary but you will be paying for a lot of blue sky based off sales and honey production from the last five years not counting this one or the one a few years back when it was so dry... smile. Alot of business advice here but the best advice is do some market research, get lotsa capital, start slow with 20 hives so you know what to do and how to keep them alive for a couple years then work on becoming the next beekeeping mogul.
> I don't wish to offend but if you don't have a good idea of what the answers are to the questions you have asked in several forums your probably not ready to start 1000 hives on 200 acres fondationless with a homemade extractor if you are just checking to see if everyone tells you what you thought to be true I'd still say go slow the picture your are painting makes me fear for you... best of luck with whatever you decide you live in one of the most beautiful contries i have ever seen. I'd brand my equipment and chain it down though.
> 
> Daniel


one of the best answers ive heard all nighte paul , i do intentd to bee the next bee keeping mogul and make a killing from my passion (isnt that what the greats tell us to do?), and i do have some homework to do(what better place to start than here) i have capital, but on good advice i'm going to take beekeeping courses while i manage a small holding of 20-50 hives and increase from there. this forum has really given me alot of info, i really want to bee a successful commercial beekeeping mogul, and at the very least i wont stop until i become one


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

mr.newbee said:


> and make a killing from my passion


20 to 50 hives should be a good test. I am not sure if your passion is keeping bees or becoming a mogul but starting with this amount of hives should tell you something. Good luck in your venture.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

Nabber86 said:


> My 4-hive collection is worth $88,495.57.
> 
> 
> That would be in Jamaican dollars at current exchange rate. Did anyone happen to notice where Mr. Newbee is located before they gave advice?? :doh:
> ...


Actually yes I did. But then my question about a business knowing the value of their operation had nothing to do with Mr. newbee or his Jamaican operation either. It had to do with the across the board inability to answer the question by this forum. To me it is automatic to know the value of what I have so it is a bit surprising that the number of people that don't know or even consider it cannot be known is almost unanimous.


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

I think that the 20 to 100k value is in large part to the scholarships and research grants it has generated for the students and program.

I'm also very proud of one of my students who is joining one of the best (O.K., so it is the best one in the country if not the world) bee research programs in the country.

Sometimes, Honeybees can change lives for the better.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Congrats to the Grad. We in NY expect to see this person back here speaking at our Fall Mtng some day. EAS has a support program for Grad students doing Bee Research. Maybe you aught to look into that. ABF and AHPA do likewise, I believe.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Sorry Daniel but the op makes what amounts to a simple question with no simple answer. I noticed you gave a number, mind if I ask how you came up with it? Is their a daily market for bee hives near you? I have a rough idea what my operation is worth but it's pretty vague in the middle of a honey season under drought stress. I would have no idea what the overall hive strength will be two months from now and even less idea how they will grade out 6 months from now for almond pollination. Is someone going to come along with the financial ability to buy me out for what I might ask if I decide to sell? That is just a WAG. Any banker that has dealt with bees as an asset will attest that it is a pretty unstable asset, no titles and god only knows where they might be at any given time or even if they are still alive.


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## D Semple (Jun 18, 2010)

Daniel Y said:


> To me it is automatic to know the value of what I have so it is a bit surprising that the number of people that don't know or even consider it cannot be known is almost unanimous.


Get a few more hives, or cows, or farm ground and you will understand. 

The value of what I've got changes daily, it's a moving target and there is not much point in constantly figuring it.

Don


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## mr.newbee (Jun 13, 2012)

i'll start my first hives within a month or so, i'll be sure to start a sort of progress up date thing with lots of pic ect, my most looming challenge is to build the hives(instead of buying for cost issues) i guess i'll just buy a local hive and have a skilled workman make plans to replicate and recommend tools to build it with, renting a professional work shop i hope i can get through 5 a day with some help, thanks for the generous and copious amounts of advice, this community is really warm helpful


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## Dunkel (Jun 12, 2009)

Daniel, the way I took it was the original poster asked how much is "your" apiary worth. Some people do not know it may sometimes be considered bad manners in some areas. A better way to phrase it would be putting a price on a made up apairy. In regards to car people and collectors that's part of thier game and trying to maintain value in something that may not actually be worth much. Also, some people like to brag about what they have to feel important, thats fine but I not sure it is having good manners. 

Btw, I do know what the value of my livestock, bank accounts,land, and bees are worth. I was just saying that some people ask questions without knowing better, it's not their fault if that aren't aware of it. I apologize this was off topic. I'm movin on.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

jim lyon said:


> Sorry Daniel but the op makes what amounts to a simple question with no simple answer. I noticed you gave a number, mind if I ask how you came up with it?


Everything associated with bees has prices. you can look them up. a hive box costs xxx dollars. the amount will vary according to just what supplier you look at but it is a very narrow ball park. Just look it up and start adding.

I have 3 deeps and 3 meds hive boxes with frames to fill all plus 10 extra frames for each size box.
I have a 5 fame nuc of bees worth $100 that has quadrupled in size so I will call that $200 just in bees. add three queens and split them up and they are worth $400. etc.

It is easy to also find the value of my hive tool, smoker, bee suit etc.

Then you have the issue of depreciation so knock off some percentage. I get to do that since I own it and it is depreciated by the amount I say it is. Otherwise the buyer can just go buy it new like I did.

Then you have the issue of can I sell it? Selling is not the same issue as value. The value is what it is. My ability to sell it at that price is an issue of how much I am willing to work to get it sold. but it will sell. People are buying the same stuff every day at higher prices.

My total did not even count the value of the honey. wax, brood etc. I consider that all wrapped up in the $400 value of just my bees.

So if someone approached me today wanting to buy my hive I woudl know instantly I want $400 for it. Or they can go buy all those boxes, buy a nuc of bees and do exactly what I did to get what I got. 

I just offered my top bar hive with a swarm for $275 and have 3 people thinking about it. That hive cost me maybe $45 to build and put bees in. But it is still worth at least $275 to me and that is why it will sell for that or I will keep it. If I keep looking I will find a buyer at that price. If the colony begins to grow the price will rise accordingly. So far I am pricing the bees at a package price. it will soon be a nuc price and eventually become a colony price of $200 or so.

Getting customers is another job entirely.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

5 frame nuc of bees cost $100 then have now quadrupled in population and I now consider them worth $200

According to Mann Lake, assembled and painted deep body with frames is $69.95 so call it $70.
I have three. $210 (Total $410)

I don't find assembled med supers but they list Unassembled ones for $25.95. add assembly and paint and I price them at $50 each with frames. I have 3 $150 (total $560)

My smoker is priced way to high at $80 so cut that in half to be more realistic and it is worth $40 (total $600)

Now you have three veils and two bee suits but I am not selling them still they are worth about $175 (total $775)

Hive tool and brush are really not worth anything since they are used so call it $10 for teh set. (Total $785)

Knock off 25 % given my stuff is all pretty much new and the colony is growing and healthy you have a total of 588.75

In my previous post I said my bees are worth $600. that was a off the top of my head figure since I did not look it all up like I did here. I was off by $11.25. And that is a figure I run around with in my head. not having added anything or looked anything up. Like I said I can believe so many people can be clueless as to what they have and what it is worth.

I think most people get in a brain lock on the issue of "What can I sell it for" and they seize up and never answer the question of what it is worth. If you answer the second question the first answers itself. No question in my mind at $600 somebody would be getting a deal. And I woudl not budge one dime from that $600 price if I where to offer it for sale.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Daniel Y said:


> I just offered my top bar hive with a swarm for $275 and have 3 people thinking about it. That hive cost me maybe $45 to build and put bees in.


Daniel, you are making a classic mistake. Because of the income you get from another job you are not looking at all the other costs associated with manufacturing bee equipment. If you were to quit your job and try to manufacturer bee equipment in small quantities the real costs might come out to $300 a pop. Secondly, what it costs to make a product has very little to do with its value. Value is much closer to what you can sell it for. And some people can get more value for a product than others. If this were not true there would be no need for Real Estate brokers for instance.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

Ace, you had to interject a completely different subject to make your point. You are correct "If" this where a business. And "If" I where discussing the cost of manufacturing hive. I didn't and it isn't. I said it cost me $45 to make this hive. and it did so I am completely correct.

If I where to manufacture them I know exactly what that would cost also. I know I can say that because my shop exists for another profitable hobby of mine. In that case I am in complete agreement with you. I know what my equipment cost. I know what my time is worth and it is actually included in my cost to make the top bar hive. I know what it costs to operate any piece of equipment in my shop per minute in both power, maintenance and labor. I know it to the minute because many one off projects only require a minute or so of use. I know I need to add 10% to that operating cost for maintenance on my shop as a whole. individual pieces of equipment vary. I have made and sold, at a profit, many products in my shop for nearly 20 years. I understand your point about counting the real cost. In a business that is a must or go bust. It costs what it costs and if you do not charge that you go broke, weather you know it or not you are paying that cost to make something.

I can't agree that any hive costs $300 to make though. that may have been an extreme example on your part. Or your work is not worth paying for. With quality comes competency. I may charge as much as $150 an hour just for my shop time. but I can use a shop more efficiently than most know it can be used. What would take most hours to do I can accomplish in minutes.

My point is not what it costs to manufacture something. It is that the value of any item bee related is easy to find. It is listed in catalogs. several of them. you can search it on any one of a dozen or more web sites. this is not something you need to do some survey to establish a price for. There is no marketing research that needs to be done. the price is already set and the market has already been proven to exist. People are going to buy this stuff. the only question that remains is. Are they going to buy it from you?

Walk around with an attitude like "Uh well I dunno what price to ask for it", and they won't.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Daniel Y said:


> My point is not what it costs to manufacture something. It is that the value of any item bee related is easy to find. It is listed in catalogs. several of them.


Daniel, you are just not getting my point. Go to a dealership and buy yourself a brand new vehicle. Make the best deal you can. Then when you drive it off the lot the value will change, drastically. Value can only be related to what someone else will pay for it not what you paid for it. It could be higher or lower. Do some ebaying.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

Another Acebirdian, convoluted, nonsensical conversation...


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## Dunkel (Jun 12, 2009)

I know but I can't help but read it


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## honeyshack (Jan 6, 2008)

How much is it worth? That depends on the time of year. And who is willing to buy.
In the spring it is worth alot, especially if alot of winter losses
In the summer, some but not alot cause everyone is busy and has enough on their plate
In the fall a whole lot less cause winter is coming and the risk is too great
And this spring...not a buyer in sight cause everyone's winter was good.

How much is it worth? Depends on what some are willing to pay


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

Dunkel said:


> I know but I can't help but read it


You know there are therapist making a fortune from that sort of thing don't you?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Go to Facebook and see my Apiarys. Then you can judge for yourself what they are worth.
Mark Berninghausen


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## DamSutt1986 (May 26, 2012)

If someone wanted to buy my 4 hives right now, I would ask $1600. $200 each for hives and frames, $100 each for bees (based roughly on package costs). The extra $400 for the fact that they are established. Keep in mind none of my hives are over 2 months old. Ask the same question next spring, my answer will probably be $600-800 per hive.

My numbers are based on replacement value. If I can't replace them plus pocket some money for my work, I wouldn't sell. 

I'm glad this thread came up. I ignored it at first because of all the 'what do you mean by 'worth' questions. In my opinion it was clear that the OP simply wanted a dollar figure, possibly a figure per hive. I had considered selling established hives down the road, but hadn't considered dollar amounts until now... so thank you OP.


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## Dunkel (Jun 12, 2009)

Daniel Y said:


> You know there are therapist making a fortune from that sort of thing don't you?


How much are they asking and how much are they really recieving? A fortune is how much compare to a pretend apairy that is six moths old, without supers, or counting labor?

OMG, I guess I am losing it, what was that therapist's number? Who are you seeing?


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

Can't help you ATM. I had to fire my therapist, he was driving me crazy. I do know that those with complaints need to go to Helen Waite though.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Acebird said:


> Value can only be related to what someone else will pay for it not what you paid for it. It could be higher or lower.


I don't always agree with Acebird but he really nailed it here. I just saw more confirmation of a theory I have had for some time which is "the confidence one has in their position on any given topic is inversely proportional to the length of their post"


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

Acebird said:


> Daniel, you are just not getting my point. Go to a dealership and buy yourself a brand new vehicle. Make the best deal you can. Then when you drive it off the lot the value will change, drastically. Value can only be related to what someone else will pay for it not what you paid for it. It could be higher or lower. Do some ebaying.


But Ace I do get your point. That I disagree with you does not mean I don't understand you. You make the claim that a beehive, Like a vehicle, Will only loose value. This simply is not so. In fact you seem to not see that I listed several instances that bees actually increase in value. this possibility seems to be lost on you. A more accurate comparison would be purchasing Gold. it might increase or decease in value. And even then only in part. Not all things related to bees are subject to even that much fluctuation. So I hardly agree that bees are comparable to automobiles.
I also don't agree with your analogy of the car purchase itself. Yo are not just paying for the value of the car when you purchase a new one from a dealership. You are paying for the dealership the salary or commission of the sales person. the advertising. transportation, delivery and many other "Fees". None of these are charges due to the value of the vehicle. so no the vehicle does not loose value when you drive it off the lot even though this is the common belief. you bought a car that was worth X number of dollars. you also paid for many other services and fees, even financing charges, you paid for the dealership to do the leg work in finding you a loan. You paid for the air conditioning in that fancy show room you negotiated the deal in. and you cannot offer one shred of that to anyone you want to sell the car to. so they are not going to pay for it. It amazes me how many people will buy a car and have no idea what all they just paid for. They have a 30 grand loan so they think they sent 30 grand on a car. NO they spent 18 grand on a car and 12 grand on services, fees and ass kissing.


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## tommyt (Aug 7, 2010)

OK Guys 
A bit of Derailing going on
Now* How much is YOUR Apiary Worth*


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Acebird said:


> It could be higher or lower. Do some ebaying.


Daniel, reread.

Tommyt, nothing has been derailed. We are discussing value what something is worth, different than what something costs.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

tommyt said:


> Now* How much is YOUR Apiary Worth*


My retirement.


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

If the OP meant to ask the liquidation value of an apiary, then it would simply be whatever it sells for, which is almost certainly a far lower value that you would find using other methods.

For instance, if you used your own book value, then that's the depreciated value of assets and net income.

That would still be higher than the liquidation value, however, because it's an ongoing business operation.

Nevertheless, you could use other methods for determining worth/value like the value of honeybee pollination to U.S. agriculture, which is in the billions of $s.

So, are you selling an operation piecemeal, or are you selling the whole operation still intact and functioning (in place)?

Same apiary, different worths/values.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

The answer to this question doesn't matter unlees there is someone who has an apiary to sell and someone who wants to buy it. All else is foolishness.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> The answer to this question doesn't matter unlees there is someone who has an apiary to sell and someone who wants to buy it. All else is foolishness.


Some of what you say I would agree with but if someone was planing their retirement or thinking about a retirement business you may want to know what assets you have or what you would have before making the decision to invest.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Alright then, how does "None of your business." cover it?


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## Seymore (May 1, 2009)

Oh Mark, you do crack me up. Lol.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> Alright then, how does "None of your business." cover it?


:lpf::lpf:
I was expecting that on your first post.


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## danmcm (May 23, 2012)

Followed this thread on and off. Many I think have missed what was really being asked since the original poster has posted other questions asking how many hives can be placed on 200 acres in Jamaica how can you cut the price of fondation or make your own low budget... Value, Worth, Dollar, this isn't a post on what terms I can use from business weekly to prove myself a laptop business aficionado. He's looking at starting a business in a place where large scale beekeeping isn't and from the questions asked hasn't been a beekeeper for several years. I think we get way off topic and aren't really helping anyone... That being said my favorite quote from this entirly to long of a thread was "Another Acebirdian, convoluted, nonsensical conversation... "

Daniel


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

I think the biggest source of confusion in this thread is: 

Are we talking about just purchasing the hardware (woodenware) and bees, or are we talking about purchasing an established business. Big difference and the conversation keeps going back and forth in an another ACNC.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

sqkcrk said:


> Not much to someone other than another beekeeper and not much at all to someone who isn't a beekeeper.
> 
> What is your business worth?


Between this and my "nunya" response I think that about covers it, unless you are in a position to make me a serious offer and then we will find out what it is worth.

To those who think that someone in business should have that figure at their finger tips, or otherwise available, simply from a business and tax point of view, I would say you don't know or understand many beekeepers or farmers in general. The nonAgribizz kinda farmers that is.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

The easiest way to get this question answered is PM Mark a figure and see if he bites. If he takes your fist figure you know you were too high. If he takes your second figure you are probably just about right. If he doesn't take your third figure you probably insulted him on the first figure. Then you got to target someone else.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Put up or . Take your pick. Money walks, everything else is just ducks quacking. Everything is always for sale to the person w/ money to spend.

How much are you willing to take for your two hives and your home made extractor, Acebird?


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> How much are you willing to take for your two hives and your home made extractor, Acebird?


Well Dang Mark, did you lose count? I have three hives now or were you expecting me to keep one through the winter so I could expand again next year. I also need to know what form you want them in. The way they are now with three supers on or just the brood boxes. Right now I would take 400 a pop but next spring I would sell a two brood box size for 250. Maybe you are just asking for a nuc, you got to let me know.

I forgot, the extractor is not for sale (I still need it) but I could build you one for a couple hundred.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I thoughyt I asked a pretty straight foward and direct question. Let me try again, noit that I expect a straight answer.

Whatever you have beekeeping wise, what would you take for the whole lot? Is that plain enough?


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> Whatever you have beekeeping wise, what would you take for the whole lot? Is that plain enough?


Oh, sorry, 1350 cash, no checks.


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## oblib (Oct 28, 2011)

Acebird said:


> Oh, sorry, 1350 cash, no checks.


You wouldn't take a check from Mark?


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## DamSutt1986 (May 26, 2012)

You guys are brutal, lmao.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

What's it worth? 

Commercial operation for sale in the northern Champlain Valley. Good honey production yards. Nuc and queen rearing business. First $300,000 takes all. Any takers?

Ace?


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## tommyt (Aug 7, 2010)

Acebird said:


> Daniel, reread.
> 
> Tommyt, nothing has been derailed. We are discussing value what something is worth, different than what something costs.


No your Not Talking How Much Is Your Apiary Worth$?  right here you state


> discussing value what something is worth


Apiary is the Topic NOT "something"
.
.
.
.
.

It is all amusing to a point


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

If shallow mindedness is what works for you then work it to death. Btu some people actually think things over. it is how new things are discovered. It is how any process is refined. so leave the thinking to those that can. you will benefit from it greatly later. For all you know there are hundreds of people out there benefiting greatly from this very conversation. So if it embarrasses you or annoys you go back to the corner and set quietly with the rest of society. Some of us can speak and are not shy about doing so.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Michael Palmer said:


> What's it worth?
> 
> Commercial operation for sale in the northern Champlain Valley. Good honey production yards. Nuc and queen rearing business. First $300,000 takes all. Any takers?
> 
> Ace?


Hmmmmmm. With honey crop or without? I love Vermont, I am betting it wasn't 107 there yesterday.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Syracuse hit 100 degrees yesterday. Broke all records.

Mike, if I cold scrape up the cash what would I do with it? Is there any land, old buildings that I could turn in to a Band B and make 1.5 M?

Oblib, I can't take anything that is a record that might show up as income. It has nothing to do with trusting Mark. I would trust Mark with my wallet. He is incapable of stealing anything. He probably doesn't even cheat on his taxes.


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

This beekeeper prices his 3 active colonies, with some extra boxes at $900
http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ank/grd/3144170222.html
If these were overwintered colonies in April it would be a bargain. Split each hive 2 or 3 ways, buy queens, and by July you could have 6 - 9 colonies ready to make honey.
Yet buying them right now is not such a bargain in my eyes. They might build up on the last of the summer and autumn flows, or they might not. Winter, the great midwest test, is on the horizon and by spring you might just have so much empty equipment.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Acebird said:


> Mike, if I cold scrape up the cash what would I do with it?


Talk about it.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

The ad is posted two days ago so I would assume what you see is what you get. No drawn comb in supers suggest that these are newish nucs.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Adrian Quiney WI said:


> This beekeeper prices his 3 active colonies, with some extra boxes at $900
> http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ank/grd/3144170222.html
> If these were overwintered colonies in April it would be a bargain. Split each hive 2 or 3 ways, buy queens, and by July you could have 6 - 9 colonies ready to make honey.
> Yet buying them right now is not such a bargain in my eyes. They might build up on the last of the summer and autumn flows, or they might not. Winter, the great midwest test, is on the horizon and by spring you might just have so much empty equipment.


You nailed it Adrian, if one would graph the value of a strong hive it would be at its lowest point late in the summer post honey flow and at its peak in the very early spring with additional value added or subtracted according to how near the hives are to a potential income source.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Daniel Y said:


> If shallow mindedness is what works for you then work it to death. Btu some people actually think things over. it is how new things are discovered. It is how any process is refined. so leave the thinking to those that can. you will benefit from it greatly later. For all you know there are hundreds of people out there benefiting greatly from this very conversation. So if it embarrasses you or annoys you go back to the corner and set quietly with the rest of society. Some of us can speak and are not shy about doing so.


Okay. What is your apiary worth? I expect great detail. Or, at least a solid number.


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## summer1052 (Oct 21, 2007)

Well, I would calculate what would it cost me to start over if: A hurricane/tornado leveled it; It burned down; flooded and washed away; someone stole every blessed thing.

I already have a $400 replacement value calculated per hive into my "handshake agreement" for pollination purposes. I.e., if someone steals the hive, a cow knocks it over and destroys it, or your neighbor sprays, and the hive is lost, you owe me $400.

Plus the tractor and attachments for working the ground, as I'm forced to supplement forage, fire ant poison, fertilizer if used, etc.

Extractor, buckets, filters, bottles, lids, labels, licenses, subscriptions, educational costs like seminars, books, etc.

It's interesting how many people go into business without ever calculating cost of production, profit margins, man hours, overhead, etc. If you are a hobby beek, it's less important. But if you are going to be a business, you should be all business, and business like.

I can't put my finger on one exact number, but I could put several of those calculations together and come up with one, if needed. Sorry to see a valid question devolved into another petty cranky party. 

We're better than this, guys, or at least we should be. Everybody go sit in Time Out with a cold/cool beverage of your choice, and relax. Another point of view is not a personal attack. And a personal attack is a sign of someone else's immaturity. We've had far too much immaturity on BeeSource for at least 6 months now. Hope the comet passes, or whatever it is.

Summer
In the corner, sipping honey lemonade, staying mostly off BeeSource, and waiting for fall.
:lookout:


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

summer1052 said:


> I can't put my finger on one exact number, but I could put several of those calculations together and come up with one, if needed. Sorry to see a valid question devolved into another petty cranky party.


Were waiting for that number... or maybe the OP was just looking for your verbiage.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

Acebird said:


> Oh, sorry, 1350 cash, no checks.


We have to assume that the land is included at that price... 


If that's the case, and the boxes are standard construction (preferably glued), there could be a buyer.

And remember, "it's worth what someone is willing to pay ".


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

BeeCurious said:


> We have to assume that the land is included at that price...


:lpf:You wish, the land is prime commercial property appraised at 4 million. You could use a check for that if it were for sale.


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## tommyt (Aug 7, 2010)

Acebird said:


> the land is prime commercial property appraised at 4 million.


Is it prime Commercial Bee Property
.
.
.
.
.
.
*4 million*:banana:
Whats it really worth
:update:


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

It's not just land folks.

It's all those structures as well, sheds, the honey house, etc. .

Even things like forklifts, flatbeds, etc. .

An established business requires all kinds of assets to carry out the various operations involved.
It probably took decades to put it all together.

I'm not sure if anyone has included the value of established business relationships as well.

Things like from where you purchase materials like HFCS to where you sell honey, nucs, or long time pollination agreements/customers, etc. .

In my view, that's where the real value of an apiary operation can be found: everything that has been built up over the years.

Oh, let's not forget the specific operational knowledge of how it all works together. Without that, it's kind of like putting on a show without a script, (What am I supposed to do with this?).


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

tommyt said:


> Is it prime Commercial Bee Property
> .
> .
> .
> ...


I don't believe there is any such thing. I have never seen bee real estate up for sale.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

WLC said:


> It's not just land folks.
> 
> It's all those structures as well, sheds, the honey house, etc. .
> 
> ...


How do you put a monetery value on the intangibles? I can't sell you the rights to my apiarys. I don't own them. If you want to buy everything, have me move from my home and you move in and then for me to stick around for a year or two showing you how everything works and how to do what I have done, that'll really cost you something. Especially when you aren't going to agree to do everything the way I have been doing things. Very few people are built that way, imo.


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## summer1052 (Oct 21, 2007)

Sorry, Ace -- I didn't quite understand your response. If by verbiage, you mean that I write in complete sentences, using effective grammar and spelling, why, yes I do. 

Now that I've given you some idea of precisely _how_ I would calculate the worth of the apiary, I feel less inclined to do so, as some smart aleck would run the calculations and figure out what I have, and proceed to tell my precisely _how_ I calculated it incorrectly. However, I may try to come up with a ballpark figure in the next few days if I can.

WLC is correct, and is stating the same point I was, in different terms.

If we start trying to compare value, calculating the cost of land we will be comparing apples to oranges as taxable valuation per acre varies wildly within the state, much less state vs. state. If we choose an arbitrary number of value, say $5000 per acre owned, or $2500 leased/rented, then calculated the rest, we might have a more standardized comparison.

As for the monetary value of intangibles, this is a thing businesses often do. Customer lists, vendor contracts, reputation, public perception and brand identity have all been defined in various formats; whether as assets in bankruptcy, mergers/acquisitions, or lawsuits.

Personally, *I* would define "Prime commercial bee property" as having some of the following characteristics:
1.) Good year round forage and water sources for an apiary
2.) Location convenient to my residence
3.) Location convenient to transportation -- roads, UPS/FedEx/USPS access
4.) Location not easily accessible to major traffic -- a tricky balance
5.) An area not surrounded by industrial monoculture ag where chemicals of all kinds are an issue
6.) A temperate climate that makes overwintering bees less of a gamble

Of course, the old saw about a winery/vineyard applies to an apiary, too.

Know how to make a small fortune in the bee business?

Start with a large fortune! 

Summer


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## Ben Franklin (May 3, 2011)

On a good day it's weight in Gold, on a bad day not a **** thing. But don't come on a bad day the bees are still not for sale. 
I know, I know,,they are just insects. But insects that get me up and out of the house. Keep me walking to the bee yard at least a couple times a day. Give me something to do putting in foundation,,or painting hives, spinning frames and bottling, and a chance to share my great days and bad days with friends like those here.


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## summer1052 (Oct 21, 2007)

Deleted


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## WLC (Feb 7, 2010)

Mark:

I think that functioning businesses operations get sold all the time.

That would include farms and ranches as well.

Also, I don't think that it requires that the seller has to stick around for a year, although that's possible. A thorough description of the operation is usually enough.

What you desribe as intangibles/rights, I would describe as not only basic operations, but also valuable.

Your suppliers and customers should be part of the deal as much as possible.

Otherwise, anyone wanting to start an apiary might as well do so from the ground up.

As for your home...

It couldn't hurt to have a resident 'slightly used' former Bee Inspector living on the property.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

WLC said:


> Mark:
> It couldn't hurt to have a resident 'slightly used' former Bee Inspector living on the property.


You read my profile? heh,heh lol


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

As far as I am concerend people are just complicating the issue by including all sorts of unrelated factors.
Experience is not part of the value of an apiary.
Clients are not unless you have a contract and can sell it along with it.
If you are going to consult that has a value of it's own but is not part of the apiary.
Future sales may effect the final price but in fact are not part of the value either.
Costs are not part of the value either.
You could buy an apiary knowing every hive needs to be split. this woudl require the cost of doubling the woodenware. You might have to think about it for a while but a big clue is which way the money is flowing. 
Money in is probably an indication of value. money out is a good sign it is a cost. The trick that most beekeepers don't seem to learn is to make more money come in than is going out. Typical of hobbies. Typical of those that cannot differentiate between cost, value, skill and relationship.

There is also appreciation. I bought a nuc for $100. it is now a busting at the seems three deep body hive with a med super setting on tip and still going. Bet me it is not worth $100 anymore. I could make a min of four of those $100 nucs out of it.

The buyer does not set the value the seller does. If you can't get the value out of the buyer in front of you. you have not found the right buyer. Keep looking, get better at it. become a better sales person. hire someone else to sell your stuff. but the problem is not the buyer.

I keep this thought in my mind when it comes to price. It is mine. It is mine because I want it. Now the customer has to offer me enough to give it up.

I have a bit of a line I use when selling my pens. A customer will ask me "How much is this" I ask them if they like it. They always say yes. I say so do I and I like it enough to have made it. Now they have to offer me enough to be willing to give it up.

I once had a lady tell me she liked my pens so much she wanted all of them. I said. I own all of them and still want more.

Sell you apiary when you want it the most. Then start another one. wait until you don't want it any more and the value to you plummets.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Daniel Y said:


> There is also appreciation. I bought a nuc for $100. it is now a busting at the seems three deep body hive with a med super setting on tip and still going. Bet me it is not worth $100 anymore. I could make a min of four of those $100 nucs out of it.


First off you have way more than $100 invested and yes its worth a bit more but probably not as much as you might imagine. And yes you could probably make 4 $100 nucs out of it next spring assuming that they come through the winter strong but if you gamble and try it this summer you are betting on a good late summer build up that might or might not happen I really have no idea what a 4 to 5 comb nuc would be worth in your area in September....do you? My suggestion from a beekeeping standpoint is to make up one and see how it goes and report back to us on how it worked out for you, a few frames of brood out of a strong hive this time of year probably wouldnt hurt it at all.


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