# Three Generations



## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Wish they looked more like momma/grandma from a purely aesthetic point of view. Good bees either way, though.


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## e-spice (Sep 21, 2013)

Cool - is the youngest queen on the left?


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## thehackleguy (Jul 29, 2014)

Wow! They look great. Did you graft these queens? I got my supplies a couple weeks ago and I'm going to give it a run in the spring.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

e-spice said:


> Cool - is the youngest queen on the left?


Based on the markings...the other way around.


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

Pretty sure the Queen on the left is one of JW's originals. G


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Sorry yes, grandma on the left. Baby on the right.

hackleguy, not grafted. Original queen was from a bee tree. I have a few of her daughters. The one pictured was after I split the original off (she wanted to swarm). Then her daughter packed two deeps and a medium and also wanted to hit the trees late so she went into a nuc. The last queen mated at the beginning of September. If the original queen survives the winter (she's in a triple deep packed with bees and plenty of food), I will be grafting from her. Going to do it pretty early if weather allows too. I started too late trying last year. 





Not a bad pattern for being mated in September. Hope she keeps over winter well. Quite a few drone around when she mated so she should have had the opportunity to get plenty.

My apologies for having fallen for foundationless hype. This is a remnant and had many swarm cells hacked from it to supply some to a local keeper who needed some while that laste one was being raised.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

thehackleguy said:


> Wow! They look great. Did you graft these queens? I got my supplies a couple weeks ago and I'm going to give it a run in the spring.


This one was raised by notching. She is a late lady as well (pictured about a day after she started laying). She'd be the "sister" to the blue dot queen pictured above:


She's done really well laying up her 5/5 nuc and getting them in shape for winter. Gave them a frame of brood shortly after she got mated and she took off. 

I got toward the end of summer and realized that my goal of having a few daughters of my favorite queen or "breeder" queen (green dot in OP) wasn't shaping up. So I notched and let a nuc raise a couple. Unfortunately, only one worked out. And when the other daughter wanted to swarm I wasn't too torn up about letting them raise cells and seeing if I could get another "descendant" mated.

Queen rearing (even in my limited involvement with it) is the most satisfying aspect of beekeeping at this time for me. It's like Christmas waiting to see if they get mated and see how well they lay and if they build up, etc. So fun!


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## texanbelchers (Aug 4, 2014)

jwcarlson said:


> Queen rearing (even in my limited involvement with it) is the most satisfying aspect of beekeeping at this time for me. It's like Christmas waiting to see if they get mated and see how well they lay and if they build up, etc. So fun!


And it is very frustrating when the toy breaks (she doesn't return from mating)..... Just say'n


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

texanbelchers said:


> And it is very frustrating when the toy breaks (she doesn't return from mating)..... Just say'n


It's worse (in my opinion) when one toy breaks and the colony goes laying worker and you shake it out and then it breaks the perfectly good toy that was right next door. 

Everytime I get a freshly mated queen I always just kind of stand there and look around wondering how in the world this tiny bug found it's way back to this little 1-4" slot in a box. And it's even more phenomenal when you think of bees in a cluster of trees finding their way back to the right knothole. I know they have scent and all that to help them hunt... but it's pretty awesome.


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

The green dot queen would be a 2014 one. The blue dot would be an early 2015 and the unmarked would be the youngest.

Be (blue) years ending in 0 or 5
Warned (white) years ending in 1 or 6
You (yellow) years ending in 2 or 7
Require (red) years ending in 3 or 8
Gloves (green) years ending in 4 or 9

You mark queens to date them, nothing to do with making them easy to find. (sort of)
Next year is WHITE


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## mike martel (Jun 20, 2012)

Beautiful pictures ! your excitement is great


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

My colors typically go in the opposite sequence and almost always end up with tiger striped queens like your grandma. ...not that color means a whole lot. Nice pics.


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

It's true, nothing about keeping bees thrills me quite like finding a newly bred queen that's laying well. Wish I could bottle and sell that feeling. I'd be a billionaire.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Astrobee, I wish that were my case. It might be once I get some more colonies out there. She wasn't nearly so dark when I caught her.


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## fraz6020 (Jun 8, 2015)

JW, you always have some good pics. I really liked the one of the queen flying back to the hive. I live in fl. and hope to try to let a hive requeen on their own, but a lot of people down here (FL) seem to have a low return rate. Then you have to worry about AFB getting their genes in the way.


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## GaryG74 (Apr 9, 2014)

Outstanding pictures of beautiful queens, as usual. Love those colors! Nice brood pattern too.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Fraz, thank you! That was a still from a video I took. That is the queen pictured a couple posts up on the black plastic frame.

Robbin on here has a ton of problems with queens returning. I am glad I do not have those issues. Seems like about 90% return.

Cannot wait to graft next year. She is capable of throwing queens the same color as her. This one fell prey to an ill timed laying worker shake out on my part. 



Still kicking myself on that one.


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

Just in case you were interested JW here's a couple of the R.T. daughters. G


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## Arnie (Jan 30, 2014)

Nice job! Awesome pics.
There's nothing like a queen from your own bees who lays a nice pattern and if her daughters are go-getters, so much better.


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

And their Pattern. And work. G


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

Thanks Arnie. G


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

And..... Grandma...... G


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Very nice, G!

Grandma's still nice and fuzzy. I'm excited for next year. I don't know what it will bring or what to expect. But my hives are heavy and most of my mites are dead.

I will probably place an order for about half a dozen queens from RT to requeen what's left of my "package bees" and maybe make a few early splits. Going to manage a few for honey this year which I did not do at all this year. Can't wait to see what the bees have in store in year 3! Learned an absolute ton this year. Learned that mites aren't to be trifled with and that the reproductive power of a good queen is nearly impossible to "keep up" with. Learned that I need to plan on AT LEAST double the number of boxes I think that I need. Learned you can split you best queen off and sit back as she fills a deep, then another, then another with bees all the while you take frame after frame after frame of brood and eggs to do beework and make nucs and you still can't put a damper on how prolific she is. And they won't need to be fed AND they'll put up 120-130 pounds of honey for winter.

If you'd have told me what that queen could accomplish in year two going through winter in a deep + medium I would have laughed in your face. Here's the top of her 3rd deep:


Thanks for the compliments!


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## Arnie (Jan 30, 2014)

JW,
A couple questions:
First, who is RT? 
Second, why would you buy queens when you are raising such nice ones? Are you trying to add genetic diversity for your future queens?

This summer, finally!, we got the queen we have been looking for. She came through a tough winter booming, we made 3 splits off her and she just kept pumping out brood, her bees produced a good honey crop and they are pretty gentle. We raised one daughter from her and she is just as good. So next year we will be raising some more daughters.

Good work with those gals.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Arnie, Ridge Top Apiary. biggramham610 and myself have chatted quite a bit and he has had good luck with VSH queens from that supplier. 

I'm not too worried about genetic diversity, truthfully, but I want to see how my queens that I consider "hygienic" compare to an actual VSH queen. But I can buy queens at least a month or so before I'd normally get a chance to raise them. My ultimate management for next year will depend on just how many of these bees make it through winter. If nearly all of them do, I will probably buy queens somewhat early and make nucs up with the overwintered queens and let them build up a bit while purchased queens are getting introduced. Then sell off some of those nucs if I am getting towards a number I don't have the time to deal with. I'm going to try grafting around the first of May here this year. I waited way too long last year and because of some silly decisions I made in year 1 (top bar hives)... I didn't have much bee resource when that time came. All that is behind me now. I will give grafting a proper whirl this next year.

I've got outyards all over the place which is good and bad. The good is that I can pretty easily isolate each "line" of bee and put desired drones in yards around. I have bees in 5-6 places and they are all within 4-6 miles of each other in a loose circle.

I do not have anywhere near enough colonies to saturate the area. But at this point I'd be happy with my bees trending towards a bit darker. There is a local guy here who sells honey in all the grocery stores. I have no idea how many colonies he has or where they are at. But if he's running Italians, I might as well get used to having yellow queens.

Good luck, Arnie! Raising queens a great fun. And you learn so much about bees that way too.


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## Arnie (Jan 30, 2014)

Thanks, JW.

Funny you should mention darker queens. I replaced the queen in my sick hive with a local queen I got from a fellow's 'survivor yard' and she is jet black. My plan is to split that hive and see what kind of offspring I get.
And the 'super' queen in my business partner's yard, the one we plan on propagating new queens from, is also dark. I love the look of those bright yellow bees, but........ I don't keep the bees just to look at them.

The picture of the top of your third deep; those bees look like mutts. I like 'em. If that queen can do that, and they bring home the honey, those are great bees!

biggraham, those 2 frames.....that's what I'm talking about!! Nice.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Yes, Arnie, she throws a ton of different colored drones too. It's neat to look through a colony and see black bees, yellow bees, gray bees, and even some reddish-brown ones.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

In our longer warm region here we can get 6 generation in a season.
The reddish brown ones are the Cordovan genetics influence ones. The
queen will come out a light chocolate color. Lauri has one of those breeder queen.
I like the Cordovan queens better.
If you are letting her to lay that many eggs, then her life will be shorten and the eggs
might not be the worker bees later on. Is this not a concern?


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Beepro she was in a single deep last winter. Built up to double + medium then split. She built her side back into a triple deep. Next year I may remove her into a nuc. But I doubt I will have the time necessary to properly manage her in a small colony like that. Maybe I will clip her and move her into my backyard if I put her in a nuc so mt wife can tell me if they swarm and I could maybe save her that way.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

I saw a vid on you tube that only use 4 frames to house the queen in with a
queen excluder in a 10 deep hive box. This queen is the breeder for grafting purposes.
Now you don't have to watch this nuc that often and not worry about it swarming.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

beepro,
I might do something like that with a vertical excluder. Otherwise I might toy with the idea of having her in a nuc or 10 frame box with queen excluder under functioning as "includer".

This won't prevent them from superceding her, obviously. Just hopefully hold off her leaving with a swarm.


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

Just think........ this is only five months away............. G









Here's a striped daughter from same line........









and some of the darker workers she/they throw.............


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Five months?! Seven for me I think.


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

Ok, maybe five and a half.............


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Clip! Clip! If you want to keep the queen close for a while.


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

I wish Sumac bloomed all year................


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Boy, they didn't screw around waiting for that to get to full bloom did they, G?



beepro said:


> Clip! Clip! If you want to keep the queen close for a while.


I think I won't clip her. Unless I move her to my house, but I don't think I'll be doing that either because then I'd need my cell builder there too. Frankly, I just need to move to the bees and everything would be a lot easier for me. :-D

I'd rather she have a chance to go live in a tree (or someone's wall  :lpf than get balled on the ground when she can't fly. If she's at home my wife would be able to see it (in theory, and could call me so I could get them situated before anything bad would happen).

Truth is I'm only attached to her because she is far and away the best one I've got. She's special to me, but if anyone else had her maybe she's just their "average". Hopefully her daughters follow suit and I can make more next season.


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

jwcarlson said:


> Boy, they didn't screw around waiting for that to get to full bloom did they, G?


Nope, they don't play when the Sumac comes. They hit the first blossom to the last. When in full bloom they are covered with all kinds of pollinators. G


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

biggraham610 said:


> Nope, they don't play when the Sumac comes. They hit the first blossom to the last. When in full bloom they are covered with all kinds of pollinators. G


Catalpa is like that... at least it is down at my in-laws in IL.

Watched gobs of bees and everything else imaginable working a large catalpa tree across the street from them non-stop from dawn to dusk this early summer.

Back home...
Nothing on them. Weird.
Not sure how much sumac we have around here. I think it's sumac that I see in ditches on occasion. Short little scrubby "trees" that get about six feet tall or so. I'm sure there's lots of varieties, however.


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

I can send you some seed heads if you want. I have some collected for another person on her, just haven't sent them yet. If you want them just pm me where you want them sent, when I get a chance to go to the post office, I will send them out. I didn't get any pictures, but they were burning up my chestnut bloom this spring too. G


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