# staining vs painting hives



## ehallspqr (May 2, 2010)

This has been debated in several past posts. It seems that for longevity it goes: Hot wax/resin dipping is best then Latex paints, Outdoor Stains and last various clear coats like linseed oils and varnishes. I would not use polyurethane if it will be exposed to allot of sun, as it deteriorates fairly rapidly from UV. On a sheltered porch it may be okay. If the UV gets to it then you have a mess trying to clean the surface to reapply more stain. I'm going through that with my front door. A good semi-gloss outdoor stain should work and when more is needed you can do a quick cleaning of the surface and put more right over the top. I would like to use an alternative to wax/resin dipping as has been suggested. I see a couple mixtures involving wax/linseed/turpentine and Wax/Alcohol/Propolis which is applied hot with a brush. I would be Curious to see what people recommend.


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## mignolan (Nov 19, 2009)

A new beekeeper/blogger stained his, and they look terrific -- here's a link to a post in which he explains what he used. You may want to ask him how they're holding up.

http://jaredsbees.blogspot.com/2009/12/pictures-update.html


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## Mike S (Dec 25, 2009)

Heres a warre hive I finished today, Minwax stain with polyurtnene in Pecan color , cant say how long she'll hold up though.

http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy25/twocreekfarm/Warre Hive Construction/IMG_3264.jpg


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

Some of our are stained with bear deck stain. they look nice.


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## Mike S (Dec 25, 2009)

I have never heard of bear deck stain? I perfer stain over paint but not sure how long it will last. I know theres a lot of talk over everything being natural not hurting the bees. I dont intend to load it with bees until next spring, should be cured good by then.


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## ehallspqr (May 2, 2010)

Yup that Minwax polyurethane does look nice on both those hives. Nice Warre by the way Mike S. Bear stains are big here on the west coast. I've used gallons of this stuff, mostly the solid satins and it holds up very well. Resist mildew which is important in our moist climate.


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## avalonweddingsbcs (May 2, 2010)

Hot wax/resin dipping? never heard of it..


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## Tom Fran (May 18, 2010)

Staining and applying polyurethane will look nice initially, but if you don't use an _exterior_ marine varnish, it will eventually begin to peel as it's exposed to the damaging UV rays. 

Marine varnish stands up well, but it's not cheap. Unless you keep your hives inside and not exposed to the sun, don't use an _interior_ poly like Minwax.


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## ehallspqr (May 2, 2010)

avalonweddingsbcs said:


> Hot wax/resin dipping? never heard of it..


You mix a paraffin or bees wax & Brazilian tree resin, ratio something like 4:1. Melt and mix that in a huge metal heating tank at 275 degrees or so. Then you basically deep-fry your hive bodies and other outer wood-ware in this. The wax and resin penetrates very deeply into the wood. This type of finish is natural and last a long time. Trouble is you have to find someone with a dipping setup if your a hobby Beek with only a few hives to dip. Search this site there are several post about the dipping process. Mike Bush has info on his site.

My Minwax stained door looked great for a couple years but as the plastic component deteriorated it turned to a powdery, flaky mess. No big deal but it will be a pain to scrap that off and redo it. Semi-gloss/clear outdoor stain will fade but it doesn't need to be scraped down and prepped as much before you slap more on.


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## wolfpenfarm (Jan 13, 2009)

ehallspqr said:


> YThis type of finish is natural and last a long time. Trouble is you have to find someone with a dipping setup if your a hobby Beek with only a few hives to dip. Search this site there are several post about the dipping process. Mike Bush has info on his site.


where would one find this tree resin in sufficient quantity to do this??


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## ehallspqr (May 2, 2010)

wolfpenfarm said:


> where would one find this tree resin in sufficient quantity to do this??



Manlake Bee supply sells it as Brazilian Gum Rosin. There are cheaper places to buy it I've heard.


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## Oberlinmom (Mar 11, 2009)

I am very fortunate to live near Queen Rite Colonies where I can get my wooden ware hot dipped. I would check into stains or paints for boats. Are they okay for bees? At least you could be sure it would hold up in the weather.


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

I am fond of oops paint from HD. 5 gallons for 10 bucks really goes along way.


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## USCBeeMan (Feb 7, 2009)

I do both. I have some that are stained that I put on last late summer/fall. They are looking great! It was mentioned here to use Cabots. That's what I use. I use the "Natural/Neutral". It is also the one that is for wood protection. Directions call for 1 coat. I apply at least 3 coats. Water just beads off of them. I have used the Cabots on pine, cedar, and cypress. The results are beautiful on all 3 woods.

Also use oops for Lowe's. (Primer and paint.) Nothing wrong with pink primer. Usually put on at least 2 coats of primer. Have been using latex lately but have painted some recently with oil. Again, I put at least 3 coats of paint , laytex or oil. The only times I have had problems with paint is when I don't put at least 2 coats of primer, don't allow enough time for primer or paint to dry,or apply too heavy a coat of paint, especially oil.

I can paint with latex faster than oil, but I prefer oil.

Having said all of this, I really like the Cabots the best. No priming. Just brush on 3 or so coats and let them all dry.


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## MJuric (Jul 12, 2010)

I know this is an old thread but was wondering if anyone had "Cooked" their hive before assembly? 

Pros' would be you would no longer need such a large tank, Might be able to do most of it in a turkey fryer. 

Con's Box joints might swell or something and no longer fit together. Also I'd guess if you're gluing the joints the glue would be less effective on the wax finish than on raw wood.

Also is there any reason to do any finishing to the frames at all?

~Matt


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## Oldbee (Sep 25, 2006)

_"Also is there any reason to do any finishing to the frames at all?"_

No no no! It's enough work already to put together and paint/stain all that woodenware!  . Plus, the bees add propolis [plant resins or gums] to the frames, which protcts the hive from some invaders like bacteria, molds, yeasts, fungi, insects and other pests. ABC @ XYZ Bee Culture.

I don't know about "cooking" before assembly.


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## beez2010 (Dec 9, 2009)

ehallspqr said:


> You mix a paraffin or bees wax & Brazilian tree resin, ratio something like 4:1. Melt and mix that in a huge metal heating tank at 275 degrees or so. Then you basically deep-fry your hive bodies and other outer wood-ware in this.


It should be noted to all reading this (as it is noted on Mr. Bush's site) that this practice is extremely dangerous. It is to be taken very seriously and the beer is to be left in the fridge until AFTER the work is done!

Treating your hives in this way makes deep-frying whole turkeys seem like child's play.

Evan, did you treat your cedar Warre? I've always preferred to leave them natural and they hold up really well. I would be curious to see a pic. if you did, though.

Chris Harvey--Teakwood Organics

www.thewarrestore.com


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## MJuric (Jul 12, 2010)

Oldbee said:


> I don't know about "cooking" before assembly.


I wasn't thinking of staining the frames but some sort of wax coating or cooking.

I'm actually trying to figure out a way to do less work  If a person could just drop the bodies into a cooker that seems easier than priming and painting. On top of that I like the idea of having a natural look and if it last longer to boot that's even more of a bonus.

Staining and poly is going to to away almost as fast as prime and paint so that doesn't seem any better. 

I like the idea of "Cooking" individual pieces because you wouldn't need a larger tank and place to heat it up.

Problem is I'm pretty sure the fryer isn't deep enough to do the sides and I'd be concerned the fingers would warp and then the pieces wouldn't fit together. 

~Matt


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## ehallspqr (May 2, 2010)

MJuric said:


> was wondering if anyone had "Cooked" their hive before assembly?
> 
> Pros' would be you would no longer need such a large tank,
> 
> ...


I was wondering the same thing. I don't see any "major" reason why this would not work. I wouldn't think the joints would swell/warp to much and if they did a little sanding perhapes, which would be a good idea anyway to make the glue stick better. I've seen used turkey fryer's for very little money at garage sales and the amount of wax/resin needed would be much less. This would be more affordable sloution for the small hobby Beeks.

Hello Chris(Beez2010), I have the Warre I got from you sitting in my living room for the moment. Been contemplating what kind of finish, if any to put on it. Your right it is cedar so no finish is really required and I don't want to hide the beautiful natural woodgrain that cedar has. So I was thinking either a tung-oil, boat spar finish or wax/resin/solvent finish of some sort? The wax dipping would be the ultimate finish to apply when the desire is to see the natural wood grain, but too expensive to set one up to do a few hives.

By the way, go to youtube and type in turkey fryer fire and watch the carnage. It goes without saying anybody cooking hives in a solution of hot flammable wax/resin should exercise extreme care. A little wax running down to the flame and it could get real ugly, real fast!


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

MJuric said:


> I wasn't thinking of staining the frames but some sort of wax coating or cooking.


Bees will give the frames all the wax coating you could ever want, and then some.


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## MJuric (Jul 12, 2010)

avalonweddingsbcs said:


> Was thinking about getting a nuc for my back porch and thought it would look nice if it was stained... Nice one with box joints at all that..
> 
> Was wondering if it would last as long as a painted one if i did stain + polyurathane?


Sorry for bringing this back up again but I would really like to have a natural finish on my hives if possible.

I looked into the hot dip and cooking thing and it's just to expensive. I figure I could get a pot to cook it in pretty cheap, figure I could find a 55 gallon drum and cut it and use that. I then started looking at the rosin and wax. If I figured it correctly you'd have to buy around 8lbs to make a gallon. 

Doing a 4:1 paraffin to rosin mix and figuring I'd need ~40 gallons that would make 30 gallons paraffin or 240lbs and 10 gallons of rosin or 80lbs for a total of 320lbs. At an even 2$ a pound that's 640$ for materials. Now granted you'd only use up a tiny bit of that per hive but the initial investment is pretty steep.

I then looked into poly, stains etc and most of them are not good for exterior usuage. 

However I ran into a marine stain/finish called "Spar marine varnish" as well as some stuff that they use on log cabins that appears to be somewhat similar. I even found a cashew based stain http://www.earthpaint.net/product_mountain_XT.php.

Are there things I should definitely stay away from for finishing the hives? Has anyone tried any of these products?

~Matt


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## mythomane (Feb 18, 2009)

Marine spar varnish is pretty great, but the price adds up. If money is your chief concern just go down to Habitat for Humanity or something and get their cheapest leftover paint. Or do not paint at all. You will still get many years from them.


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

avalonweddingsbcs said:


> Was thinking about getting a nuc for my back porch


Check out this video 1.36 minutes in the deck has a cool feature. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnVWHEiMl4w&feature=related


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## pom51 (Jul 28, 2008)

I have used boiled linseed oil on some that look very good still after several years of use.


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## avalonweddingsbcs (May 2, 2010)

do you think you could use just a regular stain and then coat it with tompsons water seal?

d


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## MJuric (Jul 12, 2010)

avalonweddingsbcs said:


> do you think you could use just a regular stain and then coat it with tompsons water seal?
> 
> d


How long does it last? I thought it only lasted a year or two on decks at best. 

~Matt


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