# Laws on bottling.



## Jon B (Apr 24, 2013)

You will need to check with your states department of food for the proper guidelines. If you are selling a lot of honey I would recommend staying away from selling honey in used containers.


----------



## rtoney (Apr 20, 2011)

In MO I use canning jars, they do not have to be sealed & as long as I can wash the jars I reuse the ones that are brought back. I do not pay for or discount honey for the ones brought back since W-M is so cheap on new ones. Your state AG or health dept. web site is where you will find the correct information for your state requiremnets.


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Ditto what was already stated above.

I don't see why, as long as the jars are well washed, anyone would hesitate using previously used jars. You might want to use new lids though. Used lids could be rusty.


----------



## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

I am in Il so I can help... your not requred anything special until you exceded 500 gallons. after that you need an state approved food prep location for extraction/bottleing.


----------



## Edaw (Jan 29, 2013)

Thanks gmcharlie. I don't plan on reusing very many jars, however, since I am a small operation I don't think I'll mind the occasional used jar.


----------



## rlsiv (Feb 26, 2011)

I give $1 off the next jar ($10) if one of my customers brings me my "clean" jar back. It doesn't save me a whole dollar, but it does bring them back.


----------



## bolter (Jun 27, 2013)

We use mason jars with new lids. Jars are kept warm until they are filled - 100% pop (seal themselves) after honey is added straight from the extractor (filtered of course). We offer $3 back for returned jars.


----------



## Edaw (Jan 29, 2013)

Off top a little. I'm familiar with canning and sealing, but we always use a pressure cooker. How do your jars seal without heating the honey?


----------



## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

Bolter, 3.00?? what do canning jars cost up there? around here I can buy a dozen for 8.00......

110 degree honey and a good warmed jar will usualy seal on its own. but its doesn't matter if it does or not. dry honey won't spoil.
We use a lot of canning jars for honey with a chunk of comb...


----------



## Edaw (Jan 29, 2013)

Gm, I kinda thought that. I am not to interested in heating the honey. I prefer to keep it raw. I just thought some customers might prefer the jar to be sealed.


----------



## rtoney (Apr 20, 2011)

I would like to sell my honey for enough that I could give 3.00 back on each returned jar. That is more then a third of a case of quart jars here.


----------



## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

heating it to 110 or so does absolutly no harm... no different than a hot day. and it claifies and bottles a LOT better. Its still also considered raw honey.


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

rtoney said:


> I would like to sell my honey for enough that I could give 3.00 back on each returned jar.


Why don't you just sell your honey at a price which includes the cost of the jar so you can buy new jars and not have to handle the used jars. I find washing and especially getting the labels off of the jars a real pain. Something I'd rather not do.

Why would you pay more for a used jar than you would a new jar? I can buy new 5lb jars for about $2.00 each. Are you paying more than that for canning jars?


----------



## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

gmcharlie said:


> I am in Il so I can help... your not requred anything special until you exceded 500 gallons. after that you need an state approved food prep location for extraction/bottleing.


I would double check that. I'm not doubting that you are not required to have a approved food prep facility for less than 500 gallons. 
I'd be surprised if you were not required to follow the same procedures and guidelines for handling and cleanliness as any food facility even though you are not being inspected, not required to have a 3 bay sink, etc. You still have to abide by all health codes (sans the requirement to work in an inspected facillity) even if you are not being inspected.
You likely still need an inspected facility if you are wholesaling to stores (ie, if the mini mart is carrying your honey, you are wholesaling it to them).
I don't know the details of the IL law, but it is not as simplisitic as "there are no requirements under 500 gallons"


----------



## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

nope.... And I think that the 500 gallons was intened to be 500lbs, but not going to point it out... and we sell to several stores.....
Next year some areas are going to require a "food preparer permit" to sell at farmers markets and such... not sure how thats going to effect us yet


----------



## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

gmcharlie said:


> heating it to 110 or so does absolutly no harm... no different than a hot day. and it claifies and bottles a LOT better. Its still also considered raw honey.


To most of the community that values "raw food" (not just honey), 108 seems to be the magic number. There is no legal definition of "raw", so you can use it to describe honey that has been heated to 200...but if your target market wants "raw" according to the under 108 number, selling them raw honey that has been heated to 110 won't really work (assuming you are open and honest).

deknow


----------



## Edaw (Jan 29, 2013)

What I am trying to do is to be able to say I have done nothing but filter the honey for removal of wax or other large objects. That's what my customers are after.


----------



## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

gmcharlie said:


> nope.... And I think that the 500 gallons was intened to be 500lbs, but not going to point it out... and we sell to several stores.....
> Next year some areas are going to require a "food preparer permit" to sell at farmers markets and such... not sure how thats going to effect us yet


Ok I looked it up...interesting wording:
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=1584&ChapterID=35
If the honey is "adulterated" in any way (liquid honey), then none of these protections apply. You can have cats all over your small honey house...as long as the honey isn't adultrated, no one can regulate that (well, I think the feds can). The minute there is a cat hair in the jar, you no longer have unadulterated honey, you are no longer protected, and inspectors come in, cite you with both not having an inspected facility (you only don't need an inspected facility if you are selling comb honey or unadulterated extracted hone), and all the actual code violations (pets in the room, no slop sink, no 3 bay sink, hot water not hot enough, no washable walls, plumbing not copper all the way to the main, floor not sealed, etc).
How about a little sugar feed in the honey...or a bee leg?
The minute the dept determines that any of your product is adulterated in any way, you are subject to inspection and regulation.

deknow


----------



## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

Edaw said:


> What I am trying to do is to be able to say I have done nothing but filter the honey for removal of wax or other large objects. That's what my customers are after.


...so do that and say that.

deknow


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Edaw said:


> What I am trying to do is to be able to say I have done nothing but filter the honey for removal of wax or other large objects. That's what my customers are after.


Then don't tell them you filter it, but that you strain it.


----------



## Edaw (Jan 29, 2013)

deknow said:


> ...so do that and say that.
> 
> deknow


I was just stating the reason I didn't want to heat the honey.


----------



## gmcharlie (May 9, 2009)

here in Il, we have county inspectors sanctioned by the state, so genearly a quick conversation with the Health Dept will keep you safe, or the other is ignore them till they come knocking. We have to deal with our as we have another business they are active at, and at the moment they want no part of the bee business...

As for adulterated... they say intentionaly. such as a flavored product, or mixing up honey butter (we asked)


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

One thing about handling used jars is unless you keep empty boxes to put them in what do you do w/ them?


----------



## Edaw (Jan 29, 2013)

Of course the obvious question always arises when talking about this sort of thing ..... How much right does the government have to interfere with the small business of beekeeping and regulate as they do? Just a question


----------



## awebber96 (May 28, 2012)

For what its worth in Ohio:

Per Ohio Dept of Ag.:

"Q. Can jars for honey be reused?
A. Yes. They must be washed and sanitized. If the kitchen or honey room was inspected, proof would be needed that the jars were sanitary and kept in a sanitary condition."

http://beelab.osu.edu/images/honey_production_and_sales_Q_and_A_final.pdf


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Edaw said:


> Of course the obvious question always arises when talking about this sort of thing ..... How much right does the government have to interfere with the small business of beekeeping and regulate as they do? Just a question


Push it and maybe you'll find out.


----------



## Edaw (Jan 29, 2013)

I'm not saying that is my question, of course I'm not saying its not. Just a question I heard at my local beekeepers meeting last week. One member was unhappy with the amount of regulation he was forced to jump through.


----------



## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I c.


----------

