# PDF "box Joint' file



## filmmlif (Jun 15, 2004)

where are the PDF 'Box Joint" files? i don't see/find them on the list of designs. thanks in advance.


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## Guest (Jun 16, 2004)

Look up "Using dado to cut box joints for hive bodies" under Bee Forum.

Try that link there is a discussion and links on Box Joints. I had trouble finding that file myself but someone posted it there.

I'd give you the link but I can't figure out how to put the link here!

Dan

[This message has been edited by dtwilliamson (edited June 16, 2004).]


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

http://www.beesource.com/files/boxjoint.pdf


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## Alex Cantacuzene (May 29, 2003)

Hello filmmlif et al,
Here I go again. I too tried to build boxes with the fingerjoints but my cheep table saw did not allow me to install a dado blade. So I decided to use my router and a dovetail jig to make my boxes. The proof is in the pudding and so my boxes are now two years old,only glued and hold up very well. The other advantage is that with this dovetailing you are cutting a complete corner at a time and it also does not require subsequent trimming. Maybe you want to try it too, I am convinced. Take care and have fun.


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## whiskeytripping (Nov 16, 2012)

*Re: PDF "box Joint' file*

I'm not sure why, but when I go to that file is says it isn't available, do any members have this boxjoint PDF file they have saved they could send, or does anyone know where it can be downloaded? Thanks guys


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## whiskeytripping (Nov 16, 2012)

*Re: PDF "box Joint' file*

Sorry guys, I just found a link to this through yahoo search, here it is

http://www.beesource.com/files/boxjoint.pdf


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## ralittlefield (Apr 25, 2011)

*Re: PDF "box Joint' file*



Alex Cantacuzene said:


> The other advantage is that with this dovetailing you are cutting a complete corner at a time and it also does not require subsequent trimming.


I agree with this suggestion. I find cutting the joints for my boxes to be much faster on a dovetail jig than using box joints.


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## whiskeytripping (Nov 16, 2012)

*Re: PDF "box Joint' file*

I'm not a wood worker (just learning)
Can you do dovetails with a tablesaw? Or router only


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

*Re: PDF "box Joint' file*

With a router you will need a dovetail jig. If you do it on a table saw you are not saving anything so you might as well just go box joint.

With the router and a jig you cut both pieces of a corner at one time. very fast and perfectly matched.


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## ralittlefield (Apr 25, 2011)

*Re: PDF "box Joint' file*

Cabinet makers used to cut them by hand, but that is way out of my league. I use a dovetail jig and a router.

This is the jig that I use: http://www.amazon.com/Porter-Cable-...r=8-1&keywords=porter+cable+dovetail+jig+4210


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## whiskeytripping (Nov 16, 2012)

*Re: PDF "box Joint' file*

Good deal, thanks for the info


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## DonShackelford (Jan 17, 2012)

*Re: PDF "box Joint' file*



ralittlefield said:


> This is the jig that I use: http://www.amazon.com/Porter-Cable-...r=8-1&keywords=porter+cable+dovetail+jig+4210


Are you cutting dovetail or box joints with this?


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## ralittlefield (Apr 25, 2011)

*Re: PDF "box Joint' file*



DonShackelford said:


> dovetail or box joints with this?


I cut half blind dovetails. I am able to cut both boards of one joint with one pass of the router. Also, with the half blind dovetail less end grain is exposed.


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## DonShackelford (Jan 17, 2012)

*Re: PDF "box Joint' file*

Thanks for the info Ralph,

I just ordered the 4212 which includes box and dovetail jigs for $128 with free shipping. 

http://www.factoryauthorizedoutlet.com/porter-cable/products/4212.asp

Don


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## ralittlefield (Apr 25, 2011)

*Re: PDF "box Joint' file*



DonShackelford said:


> Thanks for the info Ralph,
> 
> I just ordered the 4212 which includes box and dovetail jigs for $128 with free shipping.


That is about the price of a decent dado blade, so it makes sense to me. I think that you will be happy with it.


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

*Re: PDF "box Joint' file*

It's $148 bucks now! I'll stick with box joints on the table saw BUT I hope it goes on sale again. Nice reason to buy more tools!


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## ralittlefield (Apr 25, 2011)

*Re: PDF "box Joint' file*

You can always hope for an after Christmas sale.


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

*Re: PDF "box Joint' file*

Got a blue Wood stock from Grizzly. Destroyed two templates so far, went back and got their recommended bit, still could not get it to work. Went back and purchases a guide block set for the other option, still could not get it to work. Every time I called tech support they had me buy something else so it is nice the kit come s complete. Let me know if you can make yours work. I went back to rabbets for the drawers and captive rabbets for the fronts of the drawers on my dressers. Maybe not a high speed bee box producer but I would like to see what you guys think of the PC for other projects.


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## ralittlefield (Apr 25, 2011)

*Re: PDF "box Joint' file*



minz said:


> I would like to see what you guys think of the PC for other projects.


I just made some 9"X12" wood boxes for the congregation at church to deposit Christmas cards in. They came out fine.


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## DonShackelford (Jan 17, 2012)

*Re: PDF "box Joint' file*

A question for you box joint experts;

I have been using rabbit joints so far. I first make the 3/8x5/8 frame rest rabbit, then do the sides.

Using a box joint, does the frame rest rabbit have to be done with a router after assembly?


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## DonShackelford (Jan 17, 2012)

*Re: PDF "box Joint' file*



Ravenseye said:


> It's $148 bucks now! I'll stick with box joints on the table saw BUT I hope it goes on sale again. Nice reason to buy more tools!


$20 is deducted for orders over $100 at checkout. It is still $128.


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## ralittlefield (Apr 25, 2011)

*Re: PDF "box Joint' file*



DonShackelford said:


> Using a box joint, does the frame rest rabbit have to be done with a router after assembly?


No, you can cut the frame rest before you assemble the box.


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## DonShackelford (Jan 17, 2012)

*Re: PDF "box Joint' file*



ralittlefield said:


> No, you can cut the frame rest before you assemble the box.


I guess I'm a little confused as usual. If I cut the frame rest all the way through the end boards, then put it in a box joint jig, will there not be an open gap?


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## ralittlefield (Apr 25, 2011)

*Re: PDF "box Joint' file*

I do not use box joints. I use half blind dovetails, but I would think that you could lay out your box joint so that a pin on the side board fills end of the frame rest.

Edit to add link: http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...K1UITmMuS20QHhi4CoDw&ved=0CFIQ9QEwAQ&dur=1125

If your frame rest is 5/8" deep, and the pin from the side board is 3/4", you should have no problem.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

*Re: PDF "box Joint' file*



DonShackelford said:


> I guess I'm a little confused as usual. If I cut the frame rest all the way through the end boards, then put it in a box joint jig, will there not be an open gap?


One, not if you cut it double blind. that is short of each end by 3/4 inch.

Second, reverse how the fingers and notches are cut in comparison tot he PDF you find on this group. The top of each side becomes a finger rather than a notch. the top of each end becomes a notch. You can then cut the rabbit end to end and when assembled that top finger closes the end of the rabbit.


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## DonShackelford (Jan 17, 2012)

*Re: PDF "box Joint' file*



Daniel Y said:


> One, not if you cut it double blind. that is short of each end by 3/4 inch.
> 
> Second, reverse how the fingers and notches are cut in comparison tot he PDF you find on this group. The top of each side becomes a finger rather than a notch. the top of each end becomes a notch. You can then cut the rabbit end to end and when assembled that top finger closes the end of the rabbit.


Thanks Daniel, I knew there had to be a work around. I normally cut the frame rests on a table saw, so leaving the ends uncut would be a pain.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

*Re: PDF "box Joint' file*

I use the same dado set that makes the box joints to make the frame rest. The same dado also makes the side groove in the bottom board, and the rabbet around the board that makes the top, if you are using metal covered tops. A good dado set does a lot.

cchoganjr


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

*Re: PDF "box Joint' file*



Daniel Y said:


> One, not if you cut it double blind. that is short of each end by 3/4 inch.
> 
> Second, reverse how the fingers and notches are cut in comparison tot he PDF you find on this group. The top of each side becomes a finger rather than a notch. the top of each end becomes a notch. You can then cut the rabbit end to end and when assembled that top finger closes the end of the rabbit.


Cutting a double blind dado is what the plans call for. Reversing the pin order will give you a weaker corner when prying against the first frame and top corner pin. Made according to the plans, you have a top pin with a nail/screw in it verses a "floating" pin.

They're just plans, so do what suits you.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

*Re: PDF "box Joint' file*

Daniel Y... Barry...Let me see if I understand what you are saying. If you make the top sides a finger, and the top of front/rear a valley wouldn't that make the sides weaker since you would be nailing the side into a 3/8 piece of wood, (front and rear minus the rabbet), vrs nailing from the front/rear into the side which is 3/4.

cchoganjr


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

*Re: PDF "box Joint' file*

That's correct Cleo. You want the full top finger to be on the front and back pieces, not the sides.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

*Re: PDF "box Joint' file*

Barry..Didn't we have this same discussion last Winter when someone posted that Kelly was changing their box joints to the front/back valley and the sides with fingers.

I am editing this post. I found the photo of where I made a nuc last Winter, using the front/valley, sides/fingers concept.









cchoganjr


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## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

*Re: PDF "box Joint' file*

Now I am missing something because if the wood joint is solid (laminated) all the way from the top to the bottom why would one way of cutting fingers be any weaker than the other? Your still prying on solid wood correct?
I may have to see if I can get that jig on sale. If it is 42 lbs the shipping may hurt.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

*Re: PDF "box Joint' file*

minz..It all has to do with the top joint. The point where most people pry apart boxes. On the front/finger joint you are nailing/gluing a 3/8 thinckness into 3/4 inch of wood, (the half cut on the side). On the front/valley joint you are nailing from the 3/4 side into a 3/8 inch of wood (because the rabbet has been cut away from the front. I don't recommend prying apart boxes by prying from the end, rather pry from solid wood along the edge, whichever joint system you use.

Look at the photo above, you will notice I had to use a # 4 nail because it is going into a 3/8 thickness at the top. If everyone did their prying along the sides, it would not make much difference. But, if you pry from the end, you are prying against 3/8 inch vrs 3/4 inch. Hope this has been confusing enough. If not I can try again. HA!!


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

*Re: PDF "box Joint' file*

You can nail the top finger from the top edge of the box downward without loosing any material for it to bite into. I pin all 8 corners of my boxes this way. pre drilling helps with keeping the wood from splitting but you should be doing that anyway. You can also somewhat toe nail the finger from the side. just angle the nail downward so it is driven in below the frame rest. I prefer from the top down method myself.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

*Re: PDF "box Joint' file*



Cleo C. Hogan Jr said:


> minz..It all has to do with the top joint. The point where most people pry apart boxes.


For me, it's more noticeable when trying to pry the frames away from the side. That's where one is pushing against that top pin.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

*Re: PDF "box Joint' file*

That's true. I normally try to pry the outside frame loose by using the 2d frame and pry from the middle, rather than against the side of the box.

cchoganjr


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