# Preparing to order my 8-frame medium hives ....



## Goaroundbe (Feb 27, 2013)

I was trying to decide the same thing today. My mentor and I went with Mann lake. They got a sale going on with their inner cover and telescoping cover combo and their bottom bored. I think it ends on the 10 th. Add that with free shipping and you got a good deal.


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## Learning2Bee (Jan 20, 2016)

sidpost said:


> I have narrowed my hive choices down to Mann Lake and Brushy Mountain from the more popular options I am aware of. Is there anything to recommend one supplier over the other? I am looking to purchase 6 unassembled hives so, I expect to get free shipping from either source.
> 
> The main differences I see is that the Mann Lake frames appear to be slightly better but, Brushy Mountain seems to have better 8-frame support in general.
> 
> ...


Unless your going foundationless you may want to get some foundation. I know little about beekeeping in your area so I'll leave locational things for other people.
How about this from Dadant?> http://www.dadant.com/catalog/8-fra...-complete-unassembled-hive-without-foundation
Foundation?> http://www.dadant.com/catalog/hive-parts/hive-foundation

Good luck. Hope you enjoy beekeeping. Keep us posted.


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## DirtyLittleSecret (Sep 10, 2014)

Between those two I'd go with ML. Customer service is ridiculous and if anything arrive damaged they'll take care of it ASAP. If you need foundation, ML Rite Cell is very nice and their frames are some of the best on the market. For comb, you can do half a sheet to help them get going and cut out the sides (at least some of us are doing that and allows foundation for the brood area).


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## Muckmuck (Jan 9, 2016)

I'm going through the same internal debates over equipment. This thread is helping me a lot. If I was going to go with ML and wanted to go foundationless what frames should I purchase?

Max


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## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

I also believe ML has a lower free shipping requirement.


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## DirtyLittleSecret (Sep 10, 2014)

Tenbears said:


> I also believe ML has a lower free shipping requirement.


$100 (ML) vs. $150 (Brushy)


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## sidpost (Oct 13, 2015)

For a new BEEK, the free shipping requirement is pretty easy to meet. A smoker, some frames, tools, and/or supers gets you there pretty fast.

Mann Lakes website is basically an automated paper catalog but, the other Bee storefronts aren't much better either. It would be nice if Mann Lake had some 8-Frame Medium hives as a set ready to go like Brushy Mountain. However, their frames appear to be a better product so, that has me wondering about a split order between them or ordering everything from one vendor.


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## Retroguy (Jul 16, 2014)

I'd stick with one outfit. If you split your purchase between the two you may not make your $100 minimum for free shipping. Also, I've heard that sometimes if you mix various peices of woodenware from different vendors some things don't fit together very well. You may find that the Frames from 'X' don't go into the deep from 'Y' for instance. Best of luck to ya!


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## ritan1 (Nov 10, 2015)

I think it is important to stick to one place as well. It is my understanding that there are some differences among the vendors of eight frame. For example, Mann Lake and Betterbee are 14" while Brushy and Kelley are at 13.75". I have used both Mann Lake and Brushy and both provided excellent service. I am switching to 8-frame mediums and I must say I was very pleased with the woodenware and frames from Brushy Mountain. I went with the cypress.


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## tech.35058 (Jul 29, 2013)

sidpost said:


> What words of wisdom does everyone have? Am I missing something (I have hive tools, jacket/veil, .. still need a smoker)?
> 
> TIA,
> Sid


I see some one else has mentioned foundation, and yes a smoker is a very nice item to have. terrible thing to need one & not have. If you are not using plastic foundation, I suggest you consider frame wires , or some other method of support for the combs.
Are you going to be a "barehanded beekeeper? got a plan for hand protection? How well do you tolerate stings?
Are you planning to go treatment free? if not what treatments are acceptable to you? you may want to plan ahead now.
I am not sure what breed of bee you are planning on, but I would suggest a robbing screen for each hive.
With just 2 (each) 8 frame mediums for hive bodies, unless you are as spectacularly unproductive as I am, you will probably need a honey super or two for each hive , later in the spring/summer. But, if you do not fill all your hives, you can use them as supers.
For harvesting, ( next year?) you may need a method to remove the bees from the honey super.
fume board or bee escape board, or ???
you are in east Texas ( "the South), do you have a plan for small hive beetles?
This sort of thing snowballs so quickly. ( equipment & gear;wise)
Are you pretty handy working with wood? It is possible to make most stuff yourself, if you have time & do not demand perfection ("the bees don't care")
Personally, I like screened bottom boards, so I can check the fallout to see whats going on inside the hive without digging into it, but that raises the price bar, and plenty of folks don't care for them. Others like them.
Do you have a local mentor?
OK, enough from the pessimist. Good Luck with your bees. CE


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## ralittlefield (Apr 25, 2011)

DirtyLittleSecret said:


> their frames are some of the best on the market.



I agree. Very good quality, and they bevel the notches in the end bars making it easier to insert top and bottom bars.


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## ralittlefield (Apr 25, 2011)

Deleted.


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## sidpost (Oct 13, 2015)

tech.35058 said:


> Do you have a local mentor?


Yes, sort of. I am working with the Caddo Trace Beekeepers in Texas. I am sort of on my own but, but the experienced beekeepers there are very helpful. I am also going through their new BEEK program. They are a great group so, don't get me wrong but, they are a little homogenized so, I want to solicit some diversity of opinion and delve into some things that were missed or touched on lightly in the meetings or class. This is a pretty big investment ($$ and time) so, I want to become as informed a consumer as reasonably possibly.


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## sidpost (Oct 13, 2015)

ralittlefield said:


> I agree. Very good quality, and they bevel the notches in the end bars making it easier to insert top and bottom bars.


It sounds like Mann Lake may be a slightly better choice.


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## sidpost (Oct 13, 2015)

Retroguy said:


> I'd stick with one outfit. If you split your purchase between the two you may not make your $100 minimum for free shipping. Also, I've heard that sometimes if you mix various peices of woodenware from different vendors some things don't fit together very well. You may find that the Frames from 'X' don't go into the deep from 'Y' for instance. Best of luck to ya!


With the cost of smokers and such plus wooden ware I think the free shipping minimums are going to be pretty easy to meet. 

The differences in wooden ware concerns me but, things appear to be pretty standardized so hopefully any minor differences are just that, however sticking with one vendor does appear to be easiest. The thing is with 6 hives, I need to be economical within reason so price shopping from the better vendors is where I am at right now.


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## Learning2Bee (Jan 20, 2016)

Muckmuck said:


> I'm going through the same internal debates over equipment. This thread is helping me a lot. If I was going to go with ML and wanted to go foundationless what frames should I purchase?
> 
> Max


I don't know much about foundationless as of now. But, I do know, you can use normal frames. You'd want to choose between Wedge and Groove. I'd do a little research and see what everyone else here thinks


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## ABNRGR (May 16, 2015)

My wife and I started keeping bees this past year and spent well over $1000 exclusively at Brushy Mountain on bees, equipment (8-frame medium cypress supers and associated equipment), and classes. Last May I placed a rush order for some additional supers and frames because our hives had far exceeded our limited expectations and we found ourselves in need of additional supers for which we did not forecast. When the four supers arrived, only one was ready to be varnished and placed into immediate use as the other three were so poorly constructed that they were torque/twisted out of square due to the ends not being on plane when they were joined. I called Brushy Mountain and the customer service representative asked that I send some pictures of the supers. I complied as requested and she forwarded those pictures to ‘management.’ After two business days with no response and the weekend approaching, I had to square-up the least ‘jacked-up’ of the three unsatisfactory supers in order to utilize it that weekend. The customer service representative forwarded my subsequent email to the ‘management team,’ in which I expressed my extreme dissatisfaction with their apparent lack of concern for my issue. In that message I asked for either immediate overnight shipment of properly constructed supers (my preference at the time) or a refund. I never received a direct response, and only discovered the refund when subsequently checking my account the following week. 

While their employees are extremely courteous and provide whatever assistance they can, the BM leadership, in my opinion, lacks the expected level of business professionalism required in a market which has numerous consumer options. After this experience, and other concerning issues which I observed during my visits to their facility, I personally will never do business with BM in the future.


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## sidpost (Oct 13, 2015)

ABNRGR said:


> My wife and I started keeping bees this past year and spent well over $1000 exclusively at Brushy Mountain on bees, equipment (8-frame medium cypress supers and associated equipment), and classes. Last May I placed a rush order for some additional supers and frames because our hives had far exceeded our limited expectations and we found ourselves in need of additional supers for which we did not forecast. When the four supers arrived, only one was ready to be varnished and placed into immediate use as the other three were so poorly constructed that they were torque/twisted out of square due to the ends not being on plane when they were joined. I called Brushy Mountain and the customer service representative asked that I send some pictures of the supers. I complied as requested and she forwarded those pictures to ‘management.’ After two business days with no response and the weekend approaching, I had to square-up the least ‘jacked-up’ of the three unsatisfactory supers in order to utilize it that weekend. The customer service representative forwarded my subsequent email to the ‘management team,’ in which I expressed my extreme dissatisfaction with their apparent lack of concern for my issue. In that message I asked for either immediate overnight shipment of properly constructed supers (my preference at the time) or a refund. I never received a direct response, and only discovered the refund when subsequently checking my account the following week.
> 
> While their employees are extremely courteous and provide whatever assistance they can, the BM leadership, in my opinion, lacks the expected level of business professionalism required in a market which has numerous consumer options. After this experience, and other concerning issues which I observed during my visits to their facility, I personally will never do business with BM in the future.


That is absolutely terrible service on a normal order much, less a rush order for something needed ASAP.

I guess that tips things in favor of Mann Lake going forward. Thanks for sharing your experience.


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## Colobee (May 15, 2014)

I get almost everything from ML. They have weekly "Bee Bucks" blast sales, and some other yearly sales that make almost everything competitive from a cost standpoint. Last year they had supers on sale during the "March Madness" sale - $7 for 8 & 10 frame mediums (with the quantity price break in my budget). On the few occasions where there has been an issue, their customer service has always been "We'll fix that", with the first phone call. 

Nothing against the competition but - "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" has been my choice. ML has been just fine for me, other than a few "odds & ends" specialty stuff that they don't carry.

I'm holding my breath ( & saving my $$$) for this year's MM sale. I may "need" another 50-100 supers...


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## philip.devos (Aug 10, 2013)

I prefer Mann Lake frames (compared to Dadant).

I really like your choice to go medium 8-frame. (wish I had) When you lift a box with all frames full of nectar, you'll know what I mean, unless you're young and strong.


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## wfournier (Apr 23, 2013)

I've been getting most things from Kelley and Betterbee. Kelley had the best price on frames last time I checked (maybe not the nicest but they have been fine for me) and I like better bee because they are local so if I need something fast they are the go to (I don't think they offer free shipping though so for this I think that rules them out).


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## NorthernIllinoisPlumber (Aug 17, 2010)

I ordered MannLake budget equipment 5 years ago. I am in the process of sanding, new paint right now. All the boxes, and frames are in great shape. The top covers are in new condition, and the bottom boards needed sanding and primer as they seem to have taken the brunt of abuse.

I see no reason NOT to order MannLake budget deeps and supers. 

I use the rite cell as well. Great stuff to work with, you can scrape comb easily when needed.


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## Andrew Dewey (Aug 23, 2005)

As one who just bought an 8 frame medium hive from Humble Abodes, I encourage you to think about the number of boxes you are getting and the number you will ultimately need. Where I am, 4 eight frame mediums is (are?) about right for the brood nest. I also got two medium boxes I will use as honey supers - though, I doubt I will need them this year. 2 boxes might work for some locations... 

Most of my colonies are in 10 frame Langstroth equipment - using two or three deeps for the brood nest. I'm starting to try different equipment/configurations in part to increase my own knowedge. I have a Top Bar going now. On the list is Warre and some sort of a frame using horizontal - perhaps the Ukranian design talked about in "Beekeeping with a Smile." It is my plan to have a new work shop by next winter. Right now I can barely turn around, the clutter is amazing! (And it is all stuff I see a use for... at some point!)


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## beereal (Jul 12, 2016)

This thread was the most misleading for me. I started beekeeping as hobby the last (2016) year with the advice to go with the 8-frame equipment (I am a female over 60). The online search brought me to this post and I decided to start with MannLake 8-frame equipment. I did not realize what is behind the statement: “… the Mann Lake frames appear to be slightly better but, Brushy Mountain seems to have better 8-frame support in general” from Learning2Bee.
Below is a partial list of equipment ML does not carry in 8-frame size. We contacted ML and they confirmed that they do not have any plans to expand their limited 8-frame line of equipment. And they did not warn me when I was placing my first order by phone. If I only knew about this, I would have definitely picked up Brushy Mountain or another supplied with the full line of 8-frame equipment. 
You cannot get this MannLake 8-frame equipment that is available only in 10-frame size:
	8-frame notched inner cover with entrance 
	8-frame screened inner cover
	8-frame Robbing Screen
	8-frame Escape Screen
	8-frame Cloake Board
	8-frame Shim
	8-frame shallow supper
	Improved 8-frame top feeder


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## sidpost (Oct 13, 2015)

Original Poster here:

As of today, I can speak better about the 8-frame medium hives as I own some of both now. I like the hand cutouts on the ML hive bodies better than BM. Hive quality for both is equal. Top covers, bottom boards, etc. are interchangeable. There is about 1/4 inch width difference in the hive bodies but, this has had basically zero effect with anything I want to do with them.

As my second year comes to a close, the main take away I have is how thankful I am having only 8-frame mediums. A loaded honey super is all the weight I want to lift and carry. I can't imagine doing it with a 10-frame deep.

Overall, I have been very happy with both my ML and BM equipment and can recommend both to other BEEKs. As ML is an ~hour drive away, I find myself buying a lot more there but I still get things from BM when I meet the free shipping threshold. Both companies have treated me well and have earned my repeat business.


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## beereal (Jul 12, 2016)

sidpost said:


> Original Poster here:
> As of today, I can speak better about the 8-frame medium hives as I own some of both now. ...
> As my second year comes to a close, the main take away I have is how thankful I am having only 8-frame mediums. *A loaded honey super is all the weight I want to lift and carry. I can't imagine doing it with a 10-frame deep*....


I wish 8-frame beekeepers could influence MannLake to extend their 8-frame line. For now this limitation looks like age and gender exclusion.


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## huskermonster (Sep 28, 2016)

you cannot go wrong with either one, I do not know exactly their 8 frame dimensions, but I have found that 10 frame super dimensions are very standard, but 8 frame stuff varies a little, not enough to be a real problem unless you want everything to match up exactly, its the width, for some reason the widths do not match vendor to vendor. I decided that I was done with the miss match stuff that I can make on my own, so last winter I made all my own furniture from scratch except for the actual honey frames, those you really should purchase, making these from scratch would be a huge challenge. Unassemble is fine, titebond and nail all joints, my I recommend that when you decide who to get frames from consider making sure they are cut from eastern pine. I have found that eastern pine frames are so much easier to work with. much less blow outs with eastern pine. I am no expert, nor am I a experienced wood worker but last winter I made 80 supers and all the other parts, bottom boards, inner covers, slatted racks ect for 12 colony setups, all at home in the garage over the winter, it kept me out of the bar, its the winter what else is there to do. I figure I saved 50% investment excluding elbow grease, I still work full time but most every evening and weekends I built up the equipment, it can be done without being an expert wood guy, there is a lot of free drawings out there most I got from this site http://beesource.com/build-it-yourself/
Good luck, if you are going foundationless, inspect often, good comb produces good comb, I am totally foundationless, it has been frustrating, i do not think I have inspected often enough to fix cross comb soon enough, furniture was the easy part, straight comb is the challenge.


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## Storm (Apr 6, 2017)

Top Feeder?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>You cannot get this MannLake 8-frame equipment that is available only in 10-frame size:

Just buy them from whomever (Betterbee will be the same width and 1/4" longer than MannLake, and Brushy Mt will be 1/4" smaller) and use them. Center the Brushy Mt equipment on the slightly wider box and it will only be 1/8" on each side. Even if you put it all to one side it will work and leave 1/4" showing with 1/2" of overlap.


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