# fixing cross-comb, techniques



## AvatarDad (Mar 31, 2016)

It is always best if you can catch it before it is on 2 bars or frames (the same rule goes for foundationless Lang as for TBH). You should be able to correct the comb as it first begins to curve. I fixed some today which had curved only like a quarter inch... it was very easy to fix.

If the bees are just building at random angles, try a different comb guide. I've been using triangular and have had ok, but not stellar, success with them. Just got some "Popsicle stick" style and the bees seems to "get" how to build right away with them.

Finally: if you lose control of the hives and the bees get ahead of you, it is a mess no matter what. My advice in that case would be to "cut, don't tear" the combs. I use a very long serrated bread knife. Take your time, and cut slowly so everyone can get out of the way. The bees will not be happy and there will be honey everywhere....

Mike


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## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

Buy an Italian hive tool or use a long bread knife to slice the frames or top bars apart. If you are foundationless bend it to where you want it and the bees will attach it. If it doesn't stay in place, if it is a large section, use rubber bands, string or long skinny grass to tie it in. You can also cut it clean away and let the bees recover the resources.


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## Yunzow (Mar 16, 2017)

Thanks for the feedback y'all. I like this idea of cutting the comb instead of letting it tear willy-nilly.


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Since we are talking cross-combs, we are talking *fresh combs.*

I am not sure why people keep recommending to use strings/grass/rubber band to tie combs.
From my experience, these things don't work well with fresh, fragile combs much at all. 
They cut into them, they cut combs into pieces, NOT hold them. 
Everything is likely to fall apart and just create more mess. 
Combs get destroyed.

We are talking *top bar, frame-less combs* here, to be clear.

Do use masking/painters tape.
The tapes will not cut into combs. 
Only use about 1 inch wide tapes - sufficient.
You can wrap/attach combs to the bar in many, many ways using tapes - vertically/horizontally/criss-cross/whatever.
Stick tapes to each other. Be creative.
Bees chew them off along the way as they fix the combs - these tapes are just paper.


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## little_john (Aug 4, 2014)

I agree - much simpler to prevent than cure. Try to get new combs drawn out next to an existing straight comb and/or a partition (follower) board.

If you should be unlucky enough to have combs crossing 3 or 4 top bars - then one way of approaching this is to fix a thin sheet of plywood across all those bars, with screws attaching every one, then lift 'em all out together. Much easier said than done.

Then, place that top bar array upside-down on a work surface, so you can then begin to separate the combs. Much better to avoid getting into that state, of course.
LJ


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## Yunzow (Mar 16, 2017)

I did try this prior to using needle and thread, but it did not hold, perhaps I wasn't doing it right.

It seems like you would have to wrap the comb with the tape going all the way around and having the tape stick to itself?



GregV said:


> Since we are talking cross-combs, we are talking *fresh combs.*
> 
> I am not sure why people keep recommending to use strings/grass/rubber band to tie combs.
> From my experience, these things don't work well with fresh, fragile combs much at all.
> ...


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## GregB (Dec 26, 2017)

Yunzow said:


> I did try this prior to using needle and thread, but it did not hold, perhaps I wasn't doing it right.
> 
> It seems like you would have to wrap the comb with the tape going all the way around and having the tape stick to itself?


Well, yes, exactly.
Tape sticks very well to itself and wood (not sticking to the wax well - no).
Wrap it around all you want - great for TB technology, since there is NO frame.

Try again. It really works well with TBs.
For sure - tape will never destroy/cut your combs.


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## Yunzow (Mar 16, 2017)

Cool, I will try. Soon enough I'm sure 


GregV said:


> Well, yes, exactly.
> Tape sticks very well to itself and wood (not sticking to the wax well - no).
> Wrap it around all you want - great for TB technology, since there is NO frame.
> 
> ...


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## canadiyank (Apr 7, 2018)

Thanks for the idea re: tape. I'm going to buy a roll for my bee kit.


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## staufson (Apr 18, 2018)

I have the same issue. Did you figure out a solution?


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## friendlywithbears (Feb 6, 2017)

Cross-comb falls into three categories for me:

1) Early or light cross-combing, which is easy for me to fix because the comb is nubile and I can bend and manipulate it to exactly how I need it to be, and trust the bees will secure it properly
2) Cross-combing that I did not catch early enough, where the comb(s) are well-built and filled with brood or honey and still manageable. For these I will do two things: (a) mark the bars and treat it as one during inspection; and, (b) move to the perimeter to be backfilled with honey and removed for processing.
3) Cross-combing that is utterly crazy and unmanageable. For this I will remove it and either (if it has brood), let it hatch in the back of the hive, or (if it has honey/nectar) let it be robbed in the back of the hive.

I always find that cutting is insufficient, as the comb is too often still close together and the bees will tend to try to repair back to how it was before.

My main goal with cross-comb management is doing a "post-mortem" every time it happens. I find the more it happens, the more I understand what its causes are and how to mitigate and prevent it in the future.


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## canadiyank (Apr 7, 2018)

Great ideas, friendly. On your 3) scenario...do you take it off the comb and move it or just move the clump to the back? I had a scenario last year where my brood nest became a rat's nest and it made me nervous about what to do. I felt like if I cut it or moved it it might set the colony back or they'd simply make wherever I moved it the new brood nest. It covered 6 bars so I couldn't even get it out as one clump. Finally this spring I bit the bullet and took it all out except for one comb of brood, which I repositioned and tied onto a bar. 

Thanks.


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## Yunzow (Mar 16, 2017)

Thank you for these suggestions!!! I wish I had known about #3 last year and I would have put the triple crossed combs in the back.

I do have some gnarly fallen comb in a hive this year that I have been avoiding dealing with for a couple of weeks. I'll either do #3 or try to newspaper sling.



friendlywithbears said:


> Cross-comb falls into three categories for me:
> 
> 1) Early or light cross-combing, which is easy for me to fix because the comb is nubile and I can bend and manipulate it to exactly how I need it to be, and trust the bees will secure it properly
> 2) Cross-combing that I did not catch early enough, where the comb(s) are well-built and filled with brood or honey and still manageable. For these I will do two things: (a) mark the bars and treat it as one during inspection; and, (b) move to the perimeter to be backfilled with honey and removed for processing.
> ...


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## friendlywithbears (Feb 6, 2017)

That's a tricky situation, sounds like you made a good judgement call going with your intuition. 6 combs of brood is a lot of loss for the hive, and one of those times where you may want to "take the bullet" and decide on the happiness of the hive over ease of management.

You bring up a very good point that it is important to balance health of the hive with ease of management when making these decisions. Every situation is going to be a little different. At the end of the day the *bees* recognize our cross-comb woes.


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