# breed?



## mark williams (Jan 19, 2003)

we have a hive that has done real good(last yr queen)that we have been thinging about using for a breeder.I crowded it & took 2 swarm cell's & made 2 split's ,not knowing the exact age of the cell,but a good ideal that the new queen's was virgin both hive's swarmed with the new queen,I caught 1 swarm.& it is doing fine .my ? is this a fault of breeding in the mother hive or should I look for another breeder?hope this makes since to you Mark


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Sounds like they had their mind made up to swarm and your split did not deter them. I don't know if I think that makes them "swarmy". And I don't know that I think "swarmy" is that bad of a trait. If you don't crowd them and they don't get it in their head then maybe it won't be a problem.


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## mark williams (Jan 19, 2003)

Michael:thank's for the come back,but 1 of the split's was from a diff- hive that I have shaking out of from another hive a few day's before.that's why I was wondering about the trait of the mother hive.do you think it is a trait of her's that are prong to swarm? mark


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

It's the workers that decide to swarm, not the queen. If the workers from the other hive decided to swarm that's not because of a trait that the queen carries. If all the bees left your split, I'd call it absconding.


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## Dee A. Lusby (Oct 4, 2000)

Mark:
You wrote:
we have a hive that has done real good(last yr queen)that we have been thinging about using for a breeder.I crowded it & took 2 swarm cell's & made 2 split's ,not knowing the exact age of the cell,but a good ideal that the new queen's was virgin both hive's swarmed with the new queen,I caught 1 swarm.& it is doing fine .my ? is this a fault of breeding in the mother hive or should I look for another breeder?hope this makes since to you Mark

Reply:
Swarming here would depend upon how long the split was made up before the queen cells were introduced, along with the amount of brood contained in the split to keep it stable and there for the bees to want to tend to.

Too fast and too little brood or none at all and most always the bees will follow the new virgin from the cell to a new home.

So how did you make the splits up that the cells were put into would be the first question I would have to answer yours so you don't have it happen with the bees leaving again.

REgards,

Dee A. Lusby


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## mark williams (Jan 19, 2003)

Thank's Dee: the split's was made the day before on 1 hive with 1 frame of brood & 1 with honey,the other hive was made the same day I installed the queen cell also with 1 frame of brood, Mark


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## Robert Brenchley (Apr 23, 2000)

I've had splits that swarmed; they were hives that were just split in two while raising swarm cells; they started new cells and went. Since I had repeated problems, and I was following normal local procedures, I think I just had a swarmy strain; it wasn't the only problem. I had repeated problems with poor mating, and both my hives died out last winter due to failing queens. I had an interesting snippet of information from another beekeeper today, that a lot of people with imported NZ queens have lost their hives, while people with native bees did all right despite the awful weather. I'm starting again with A.m.m. (with a little hybridisation) from a beekeeper I've been in contact with for some time, and who I know to take care selecting his breeders. We'll see if it makes much difference. Then I'll know whether it was me or the bees!


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## Dee A. Lusby (Oct 4, 2000)

Mark
You wrote:
the split's was made the day before on 1 hive with 1 frame of brood & 1 with honey,the other hive was made the same day I installed the queen cell also with 1 frame of brood.

Reply:
Herein is the problem then! For the bees to stay better put you need minimum of 2 frames of brood and it HAS TO BE at least 3/4 eggs and open larva IMPOV. 

Reasoning is, if it is capped only or larva in later stages, then by the time the queen cells hatch and the virgin queen is old enough to mate can be anywhere from 1-2 weeks and no brood is left to keep the bees there, so they all go out with the queen on mating flight and to new home.

Also you need a frame of honey and a frame of pollen, or at least a frame that is 50/50 of each, as to keep brood and so the bees know they have stores to keep going you have a cell of pollen, a cell of honey and they can get a cell of water to raise a new bee!

Many times, beekeepers spliting swarmy type bees are simply not paying attention to brood and stores. It's not the bees so much as to inattention to details by beekeepers that are causing the problems.

Also, Mark, when you set up the new splits, Housel Position the frames with two frames of open brood with eggs/larva and plenty of accompanying bees that were on the frames with a little extra shook in. Face the two brood frames together in center of nuc with the "Y" formation down facing each other and then fill in the rest of the nuc box folling the same facing of combs then to outsides.

REgards,

Dee A. Lusby


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## Dee A. Lusby (Oct 4, 2000)

Robert,
Good luck with the new bees. Position them right. 

You are right in a way about the New Zealand bees though. Coming all that distance, they probably had a lot of acclimitizing to do, let alone matching comb size from there to what you have. Tends to make things difficult at times.

Regards,

Dee A. Lusby


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## Hook (Jun 2, 2002)

Splits can be funny. I always split them with larvae in the past. But an interesting point did come up. I purchased a few new packages, do to the death of a few hives, and the beginning of a new location, and I installed them as usual. As always, there are a few bees that do not come out of the cages, so I resealed them up, to create a nuc. In this nuc, I started my queens for splits in the middle of May. They are grafted, I had an acceptance rate that I consider ok for the amount of bees that there were. When they are capped, I will put them in the incubator that I made, until they emerge. Now, I was planning on putting the virgin queen in the broodless nuc to mate. This I have never done before. I always had brood present previously. I guess from what was said, chances are it will swarm? Even if I left one capped queen there to emerge? That they raised? And should I put open brood in a few days before so they don't? I'm actually glad this has come up! I am still learning, but understanding more all the time. 

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Dale Richards
Dal-Col Apiaries
Drums, PA


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