# DIY Box Joining



## DOrr (Dec 8, 2008)

Rabet joints work well. They're pretty simple and common for bee hives. We use them with 1 1/2" staples in both sides of the corners to stop the wood from cupping or warping due to the weather.


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## Josh Carmack (Dec 19, 2008)

*Rabbet Joint works great.*

Box joints warp also, I got an Illinois super in my backyard to prove it. Rabbet joints work fine, just clamp tightly and use Titebond III or Gorilla Glue. Clamping tightly will do the trick. If you use one of the glues mentioned, or even Titebond II the wood itself will rip apart before the glue gives way and allows them to cup.
I use strap ratchets to clamp the boxes. Along with a couple of pipe clamps to square things up.


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## Chickenpow (May 21, 2009)

Would you put the rabet on the short side or the long side? For me, it was the long side that always bowed out.


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## paul.h (Aug 9, 2008)

I bought one of those Kreg Jigs and am happy with the results. I haven't had any joints come loose yet.


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## antonio4231 (May 18, 2008)

*box joint router jig*

When I first started to build my boxes, I did a quick online search for "box joints". I came up with a home built jig for use on a router table. Using a 3/4 inch bit you can knock out each end of the box in just a few minutes. I know that there are other ways to make rabbits and other types of joints, but this worked really well for me. Once you get it set up you can really make accurate tight joints. A little Gorilla glue or some tightbond II and a brad from a brad nailer and you have a joint that is almost indestructible. Just practice on a piece of scrap first to perfect your joint making technique.


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## Josh Carmack (Dec 19, 2008)

*Both*



Chickenpow said:


> Would you put the rabet on the short side or the long side? For me, it was the long side that always bowed out.


cut the long side about 19 15/16, cut the short sides 15 9/16 rabbet all four on each end by 3/8. When assembly comes place the lap to where the long ends are still 19 and change and the box will be 16 1/4 wide.

When you are looking at my boxes you can only see the end grain of the long sides. You could cut the short side 16 1/4 and the the long ones at 19 1/8 and lap them to show the endgrain of the short sides. IMHO it is better to cover the endgrain of the short sides as they are shorter and water deterioration will set in faster.
If you would like I can post some pics. I also am going to make a new Youtube video showing construction methods that are economical and quick for all size supers, BB and tele cover inner cover and migratory.


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## Chickenpow (May 21, 2009)

Wow, a youtube video would be great. Thanks for all the info.


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## Josh Carmack (Dec 19, 2008)

Chickenpow said:


> Wow, a youtube video would be great. Thanks for all the info.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJfpDhNi2Gs
First part, second part still processing, I will post it as a reply, and I will also post an update here.


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## Chickenpow (May 21, 2009)

Awesome.


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## Bees/NC (May 23, 2009)

*box joints made simple*

theres a easy plan for a box joint jig online using only a table saw, scraps and dado blades. newwoodworker.com


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## Josh Carmack (Dec 19, 2008)

*pt2*

Second part
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dyyq4g51iXg


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## Josh Carmack (Dec 19, 2008)

*Clamping*

All in all even in my video I never mention one of THE MOST important steps. Proper clamping.

The well kept secret among woodworkers is clamping pressure. If you clamp it too tight you make indentions into the wood and cause a dry joint. Too little and you don't get a thin film of glue and cause a weak joint. For a deep brood super you need to put enough pressure to squeeze out glue from the joint. 100 to 200 pounds per side is ok. A lot of people buy a commercial made super assemble it with glue and then are surprised to find it cups and pulls apart. No offense intended if this is what you did. A glue joint needs to have a film of glue only a couple of mils thick. A film that thin needs a hundred pounds or more to achieve that goal. I tend to over clamp this works out ok on soft pine as it is soft grain and very porous and my joints are not sanded so they rarely squeeze dry even if I were to apply 1000 lbs. Secondly a good outdoor glue needs to be used. Titebond III is affordable, and certified Part I waterproof approved for non structural use below waterline!. (Type one meets demands much much tougher than will ever be seen in a super).

A proper glue joint on pine should literally rip the grain of the wood apart before it fails.
I have tried more than once to disassemble something I have built to either change(fix my own mistake) or repair it. It typically results in my destroying part of the project trying to get the glue joint apart. 

Example; 
I glued handles to the sides of my bee vac. I decided I didn't like them 4 hours after gluing them on. I commenced to beating them off thinking the glue had not set enough to prevent removal. The handles came off in splinters but the glue joint held along with what remained of the handles. I wound up using a hand planer and coarse sand paper to remove them.


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## Alex Cantacuzene (May 29, 2003)

Hi, well I have decided to stay with the Miter Lock corners that have no end grain showing at all. Yes it can be seen as tedious but with the router table (home built) set up right and using small board guides it goes quick and clean. For the handles, I set up a Dado wobble blade on the radial arm saw set to cut 3/4" wide or so, turn the head 90 degrees (like for ripping), clamp some pieces for a jig on the table and then lower the blade into the side of the box until I have the handle length that I mark on the piece or with a card board template. It does not look like the commercial ones but it works for me. Of course, I am just a hobbyist but I am satisfied with the results and the amount of time it takes. Thanks for the great videos on UTube. Take care and have fun


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## Swobee (May 18, 2007)

I'm starting to use 45° with a locking miter. I don't feel any end grain should ever be exposed to the exterior, even if it's painted or otherwise sealed. I much prefer the clean joint of a 45° with no exposed grain. This is an experiment jsut started this season, but the theory is sound (in my mind, anyway).


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## Tom G. Laury (May 24, 2008)

*Box Joints*

If there is a bee supply manufacturer reasonably close they may be willing to finger joint them for you.


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## iwombat (Feb 3, 2009)

I built one just like this:

http://www.newwoodworker.com/bxjntjig.html

I've probably made a couple dozen boxes with it.


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## HVH (Feb 20, 2008)

Swobee said:


> I'm starting to use 45° with a locking miter. I don't feel any end grain should ever be exposed to the exterior, even if it's painted or otherwise sealed. I much prefer the clean joint of a 45° with no exposed grain. This is an experiment jsut started this season, but the theory is sound (in my mind, anyway).


The reason box joints are so strong is because the gluing surfaces are where long grain meets long grain. Miter joints don't offer as much long grain gluing area. Box joints that have been glued with polyurethane or Tite-Bond III and then painted with a good exterior paint to seal the end grain should outlast miters IMHO.


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## Swobee (May 18, 2007)

Key word "lock miter joint" or "locking miter joint" - a whole different animal than a standard miter joint. I don't have photos of the cutter head needed to make them, but they are most assuredly strong! It's not your average ordinary miter joint.


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## Josh Carmack (Dec 19, 2008)

Swobee said:


> I'm starting to use 45° with a locking miter. .


I have seriously considered using a lock joint myself, but it will take just as much time, and will be more sensitive to error, so let me know how it turns out.
Are you using a router bit or a molding bit on a table saw?


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## Swobee (May 18, 2007)

Router mounted in a router table. The guide blocks for these bits make set up easy.


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## Ross (Apr 30, 2003)

Here's my boxjoint jig....
http://www.myoldtools.com/boxjoint/box1.jpg
http://www.myoldtools.com/boxjoint/box3.jpg
http://www.myoldtools.com/boxjoint/box4.jpg
http://www.myoldtools.com/boxjoint/box5.jpg


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## HVH (Feb 20, 2008)

Swobee said:


> Key word "lock miter joint" or "locking miter joint" - a whole different animal than a standard miter joint. I don't have photos of the cutter head needed to make them, but they are most assuredly strong! It's not your average ordinary miter joint.


Understood. Same conclusion except you are adding some mechanical strength. The glue surface is increased but it is mostly end grain. If I had to guess relative strengths I would place miter < butt < rabbit < locked miter << box < dovetail. Maybe others would have a different order.


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## Swobee (May 18, 2007)

*Hvh*

As I said in my first post (or at least meant to say) it's an experiment. Always up to something. As my Dad used to say, "Let's go do something... even if it's wrong".


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