# School me on doing a split.



## labradorfarms (Dec 11, 2013)

Ok the past spring. I started out with 2 packages of bees. One grew quiet huge...... 

I know this coming spring I will have to split it or risk a swarm......
But , I am not quiet sure how to go about it...

I intend to order a new Queen for the split....

Ok the hive in question has filled 2 deeps and filled 2 med supers full of honey.... How should I break it down? How do I divide the Bees?
How do I keep the Bees from returning to there queen and leaving the old queen..

Please break it down step by step cause im new to splits.


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## dynemd (Aug 27, 2013)

Here you go... good info.
http://www.bushfarms.com/beessplits.htm


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## rkereid (Dec 20, 2009)

Split it if you want to expand. If you want honey production, use some type of swarm management.


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## Tim KS (May 9, 2014)

I don't want undermine any of the good information that Mr. Bush puts on this site, but some of us just have a different thought process or are just dense when it comes to bee stuff.

Here's an example:

From Mr. Bush's info.... *"The simple version is to make sure you have some eggs in each of the deeps and put them facing toward the old location. In other words put a bottom board on the left facing the left side of the hive and one on the right facing the right side of the hive and put one deep on each and maybe an empty deep on top of that. Put the tops on and walk away. "*

From this info I might wonder 'how do I know which way the eggs are facing?' or 'which way is a bottom board facing? ....does he mean the entrance on the bottom board?' or 'are we just placing two deeps on each side of the host colony, each containing just one frame that has eggs on it?'

Do you see how someone who hasn't been a beek for years as Mr. Bush has, could become confused? I'm sorry, maybe it's just me and my jumbled thought process. :scratch:


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## jcolon (Sep 12, 2014)

Put the two new hives facing the old location. One left one right. That way bees have to decide which box to go in and more or less make an even split.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

So you're going to split your strong hive. What does strong mean? At the first good flow of the season...that means dandelion for me...a strong colony is one that has 8 or more frames of brood. Anything less than that shouldn't be considered for splitting. 

From the top brood box, remove a frame of honey, two frames of sealed brood, one frame of open brood, and one frame of honey/pollen. As you remove the frames, shake off ALL the bras...back into the parent colony. Center any remaining brood in the top box of the parent and fill in with comb or foundation. Place an excluder on the parent and an empty brood box on the excluder. Arrange the bee-less combs in the center of the empty box thusly...honey, sealed, sealed, unsealed, pollen/honey. Fill in around the 5 combs with comb or foundation. Cover overnight. In the morning, the bees will have re-populated the combs of brood. Remove the box of brood and bees, placing on new bottom in the apiary and cover...or move to new apiary. Give a caged queen. In 10 days, check that the queen is released and laying. No need to look for old queen with this method.


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## labradorfarms (Dec 11, 2013)

Michael Palmer said:


> So you're going to split your strong hive. What does strong mean? At the first good flow of the season...that means dandelion for me...a strong colony is one that has 8 or more frames of brood. Anything less than that shouldn't be considered for splitting.
> 
> From the top brood box, remove a frame of honey, two frames of sealed brood, one frame of open brood, and one frame of honey/pollen. As you remove the frames, shake off ALL the bras...back into the parent colony. Center any remaining brood in the top box of the parent and fill in with comb or foundation. Place an excluder on the parent and an empty brood box on the excluder. Arrange the bee-less combs in the center of the empty box thusly...honey, sealed, sealed, unsealed, pollen/honey. Fill in around the 5 combs with comb or foundation. Cover overnight. In the morning, the bees will have re-populated the combs of brood. Remove the box of brood and bees, placing on new bottom in the apiary and cover...or move to new apiary. Give a caged queen. In 10 days, check that the queen is released and laying. No need to look for old queen with this method.


Yes it is a strong hive... At the end of spring there were a total of at least 15 or more frames of brood and the others mixes with honey and pollen. The 2 med supers were drawn out and filled with a total of 20 frames. Bees were starting to boil over.

Also thank you Mr Palmer


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## labradorfarms (Dec 11, 2013)

Can you give me a guess of how long it would take a hive like this one . To build back up in the spring large enough to do a healthy split?


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## Paulemar (Aug 28, 2013)

Wow! 2 paragraphs, simple, direct, effective. We newbees of the world thank you Michael! I'm assuming that lacking a single hive with quite enough resources, that they can be taken from multiple hives to make an increase hive. Any cautions about that process?
Got a little snow up your way today didya?

Paul


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Sure, you can use a number of colonies to make a split. Take the brood and honey from two or three, and the bees from another using an excluder. No cautions I'm aware of. 

Yep, snow today. Finished wrapping yesterday! Pshew.


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## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

@Michael Palmer,

Your explanation of how you do a split is succinct and clear, but it raised a follow-up question for me.

The OP was asking about splitting a big colony to _avoid_ a swarm, and if he does what you explained, this would still leave the original queen and most of the bees and resources in the same hive, albeit with the loss of some frames of brood and stores. In your experience would a split of this type be enough to prevent swarming?

I ask, because it's my central winter task this year to figure out what my Spring anti-swarming plans will be. Last winter I was focused just on winter survival, and though I was lucky enough to be successful at that, I was caught completely flat-footed by the unanticipated need to manage swarming. I somehow muddled through that, too, but it wasn't pretty and I was enormously stressed by it. 

What would worry me about what you have described is the risk that the "parent" colony would carry on the same course despite the departure of some brood and stores, and still wind up swarming. 

I find anti-swarming management to be the most confusing part of beekeeping, particulaly because I am not interested in doubling the number of my hives annually. 

Enj.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

enjambres said:


> The OP was asking about splitting a big colony to _avoid_ a swarm, and if he does what you explained, this would still leave the original queen and most of the bees and resources in the same hive, albeit with the loss of some frames of brood and stores. In your experience would a split of this type be enough to prevent swarming?


If that's all you do, then no...splitting a strong colony won't stop all swarming. Most yes, all, no. 

The reasons for swarming are varied and complicated. Many theories have been proposed, and most have some credibility. Overcrowding, over abundance of nurse bees, lack of nectar storage room, and genetics have all been linked to the swarming of honey bee colonies. My take is that it's a combination of all. Honey bee colonies are individuals, so every colony performs differently than others. Hence...ask 2 beekeepers one question and you get 3 answers. All are correct.

Just splitting a strong colony isn't the end all of swarming. Without proper supering, a split colony will build up and again start swarm preparations. Swarming propensity is genetic, and some stocks will attempt to swarm no matter what we do to stop it. So, swarm management has to be more than one management procedure. 

You have to select breeding from stocks that have a low propensity to swarm. While you will never be able to breed stocks that have zero swarming propensity, you can select for lower swarming propensity. I know someone will challenge this idea. Think about this...aren't we told that to reduce swarming we should maintain young queens in our colonies. Well, what does that mean? Some stocks use swarming to re-queen themselves. That to me means that swarming propensity is, in some way, genetic. Those colonies that continue in their swarming preparations, even after management, should be requeened. 

What is that management? 

Within the colony, there are two groups of bees...if you will. Nectar storers and brood rearers. In the overwintered colony, the brood rearing cluster is located at the top of the hive. When the nectar flow starts, the nectar storers require storage space. With no overhead storage room for the nectar, it can only go in comb space recently vacated by emerging brood. That creates conflict between the two groups. The queen prefers to lay eggs in those recently vacated cells. But, the nectar storers have placed nectar in those cells because there's nowhere else. This to me is the prime swarming trigger. 

So how do you manage a colony to limit that conflict?

First, proper supering....early and often. The first thing I do in the spring...before the nectar flow starts...is to add two honey supers. This accomplishes two things. The nectar storers have overhead nectar storage space. It also allows the queen overhead comb space into which she can move if she so desires. See, to me, it's that downward pressure on that queen...caused by nectar storage in the top of the broodnest that initiates swarming preparations. Adding empty comb space above the active brood rearing cluster eliminates that downward pressure. 

Once the flow starts in ernest, the supers are being filled, and once again that downward pressure happens. Nectar is stored in the top brood box forcing the queen lower in the hive. Yes some colonies will still perform well under these conditions, but no all. Many will swarm. That's when I reverse the broodnest. This again places empty comb space above the active brood rearing cluster. The queen can move up onto empty comb. Additional supers are given for the nectar storers a place to store incoming nectar. Because nectar is so thin...so much water...nectar takes twice the comb space for storage as the finished product. You have to stay one super ahead of your bees. 

This management takes you into the main honey flow time. Once there, with proper supering, most swarming is a thing of the past. I say most, because no management plan will reduce swarming to zero...none, no matter what some will say. Because I'm trying to make the best crop I can, and raise the best stocks I can, splitting my strongest colonies in an attempt to eliminate swarming is the last thing I do, not the first.


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## apis maximus (Apr 4, 2011)

*Mr. Palmer*, thank you sir for the clear thoughts expressed in this beautifully written piece! And for all the other ones, written and/or spoken all along...


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## bison (Apr 27, 2011)

My only addition to the great info above is that there are many ways to make a split, all of which can be succesful. What Michael P describes is an ideal way, but a situation may call for something else. Conceptually all a split needs is a bunch of bees of all ages, resources to make a queen (unless you're buying a queen), and enough stores of honey and pollen to bridge their needs until they're self-sufficient. You'll find that the bees are remarkably good at taking care of themselves when given this. I've made splits where I just take one of the brood boxes off and put it on a new bottom board (particularly for aggressive hives where it's not fun to go thru them), and have made successful splits with a single frame of mixed brood, a frame of stores, and a bunch of extra bees shaken in. Feel free to experiment over time!


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

bison said:


> Feel free to experiment over time!


Of course. All beekeeping is one big experiment.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

Michael Palmer said:


> All beekeeping is one big experiment.


so true.

my experiment this next spring will be to split most if not all my colonies just prior to our main flow, which is when we see most of our swarming here.

i am finding my colonies a little smaller and lighter this fall than usual, as are other beekeepers in the area that i have spoken with. we think it was a combination of the shortened spring and dry fall. because of this i am considering deviating from my no artificial feed approach and providing some protein patties as they are coming out of winter. these colonies will also have two medium supers of checkerboarded honey/empty comb to brood up into. the goal is to maximize population prior to splitting.

i have found that splitting out a nuc consisiting of the queen and three frames of bees, brood, and stores just prior to our main flow (see michael bush's description of 'cut down split', aka 'artificial swarm') has consistently prevented swarming from the parent colony while still allowing for a decent honey harvest from that colony. the strong parent colonies have also consistently done a good job at requeening themselves, and the nucs take off well because of the flow. the harvest from these parent colonies is less than what i get from a colony that was prevented from swarming, but much better than the colonies that have swarmed. 

i have decided to do this across the apiary because i have only been able to prevent swarming in about half of my colonies even with enough honey and comb to properly checkerboard according to walt wright's recommendations. we think it has to do with the survivor genetics that i am using, and being good at swarming is probably a big part of why they are survivors.

so most of the colonies will be 'artificially swarmed' come spring. some of these nucs will be sold, and others will be kept to replace any winter losses as well as provide queens and brood where needed to the parent colonies with a focus on maximizing honey production.

this experiment is a bit of a departure from the last year or two, in that i attempted to let one of my two yards be used for bee production, and the second yard be used for honey production. next spring all hives will be used for both, with the goal of averaging a nuc and two to three supers of honey per hive.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

p.s. happy thanksgiving everyone!


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Even though you break the hive down on a split you still need to do
swarm management because a 2nd year queen tends to swarm more.
The answer always is to give them more room to grow thru out the
season.

Here is what I do to make a split with a new queen:
1) To make a 5 frame nuc split. Take a frame of capped brood with bees attached along with the old, original queen.
2) Put this frame at the center of the new nuc hive.
3) Take 2 more frames of pollen and bees attached to put inside the new nuc hive on either side of the brood frame.
4) Take 2 more frames of honey and bees attached to put next to the frame of pollen on either side. i.e. frame config-- HPBroodPH.
5) You are done with this set up. But adjust the nuc population accordingly so they are not too crowded or too fewer bees inside.
6) Feed them patty and syrup to get them going if no resources coming in.

The original hive now without a queen:
1) Take the new queen that you just bought to introduce her normally on a small jzbz plastic cage with candy on.
2) Hang this cage inside the center of the hive will do.
3) In 3-5 days the new queen should be laying if she is released and accepted fine.
4) This 2nd part is also done for the original hive requeening.

Is this a bit clear for you?


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## JasonA (Aug 29, 2014)

Great thread of advice for us new and aspiring beeks. Thanks Mr. Palmer. I've enjoyed your posts and videos.

Mr. Palmer when you say reverse the brood nest is the physically (assuming double deeps) taking the the top deep and moving it to the bottom and the bottom to the top? Is this done to get the queen in the bottom box and get the hive back in the right "order" of brood and stores?


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

Michael Palmer said:


> You have to stay one super ahead of your bees.


As a simple phrase says it all! I usually say that at the time of swarming we must stay one step ahead of the bees, but one super ahead is much more beautiful and illustrative. Mr. Palmer leaves here an admirable lesson in beekeeping.

I in the first year of beekeeping I was brutally assaulted by this phenomenon of swarming. All who are starting should be very well prepared for two things: 
1 ) control the mites ;
2 ) control the swarming.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

JasonA said:


> Mr. Palmer when you say reverse the brood nest is the physically (assuming double deeps) taking the the top deep and moving it to the bottom and the bottom to the top? Is this done to get the queen in the bottom box and get the hive back in the right "order" of brood and stores?


I guess it does get the queen in the bottom box for a time, but I think it's more about empty comb space above the queen so she can move up onto those combs.


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## djastram (May 1, 2011)

Michael.

In one of the National Honey show videos, you talk about reversing and flipping the inner cover so that it is notch up and back and taping the escape hole.

Would placing an excluder over the escape hole instead of tape allow the two colonies to share resources, thereby upping the odds?

Thanks.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

I like any manipulations to be free of the need to find the queen. Dark queens that run under the bees can be hard to spot. The method that M. Palmer describes of shaking all the bees off, choosing the frames with the right stores and brood, then placing them on an excluder over the other box and allowing young bees to come up and repopulate the combs has a lot of advantages. 1. not having to find the queen but knowing that the queen (s) are in the bottom box. 2. you get young nurse bees and wax builders that are ready to go to work. 3. you wont have many old bees that will drift back when you move the nuc. 4. acceptance is more guaranteed when you give a new queen to young bees than to old foragers. 5. pulling young bees, not foragers, helps more for swarm prevention and maintain honey production.

It depends on your climate but in my short season if I do even splits I likely will not get honey from either one. The method Michael describes gives me one productive hive and doubles the hive count.


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## Eduardo Gomes (Nov 10, 2014)

crofter said:


> The method Michael describes gives me one productive hive and doubles the hive count.


I see in the method the same advantages Frank. And with the same good results : crop and more hives.

Beekeeping is local, but there are methods that result in widely separated places as Canada and Portugal .


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

djastram said:


> Michael.
> 
> In one of the National Honey show videos, you talk about reversing and flipping the inner cover so that it is notch up and back and taping the escape hole.
> 
> ...


Not sure, but maybe. I think you're referring to one of my re-queening methods. I'm creating a nuc from the entire top brood box and separating it from the queen-right half. It's only separated for a few weeks, and I've found that the single over the inner cover builds up so fast that they don't really need any additional resources. There are things you can do to turn the setup into a 2-queen hive if you want...place the nuc over an excluder once the new queen has established her brood nest. Or, use a Snelgrove board and fiddle with little doors.  I'm just trying to re-queen a colony and get some additional brood while there are two queens laying. It also allows me a peek at the new queen's performance...before I get rid of the old queen. Sometimes the old one is better than the young one.


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## fieldsofnaturalhoney (Feb 29, 2012)

Michael Palmer said:


> Sometimes the old one is better than the young one.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>From this info I might wonder 'how do I know which way the eggs are facing?' or 'which way is a bottom board facing? ....does he mean the entrance on the bottom board?' or 'are we just placing two deeps on each side of the host colony, each containing just one frame that has eggs on it?'

I guess I need to stop using pronouns.


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## Joseph Butcher (May 31, 2014)

Hello everyone,

I will be publishing very shortly an ebook that will cover all aspects of splitting hives. The ebook is geared toward the beginning beekeeper but is great reading for the experienced beekeeper as well. I will be giving away this ebook for free for the first 20 copies so that I can receive feedback prior to finalizing and publishing. I also have more information that is free on my blog site along with videos and a free online bee school. Please visit beekeepingzone.com & good luck. It is an awesome feeling after you split a hive!

Here is some quick advice on splitting a hive.

The best time to make a divide is in the early spring about a month before the first major nectar flow. Follow these steps in the order they are given:

Check your existing colony (colonies) to determine whether you have one that’s strong enough to divide.

Look for lots of bees, and lots of capped brood (six frames of capped brood and/or larvae are ideal). The situation should look crowded.

Order a new hive setup from your bee supplier.

You’ll want hive bodies, frames, foundation — the works. You need the elements to build a new home for your new family.

Order a new queen from your bee supplier.

Alternatively, you can allow the new colony to raise its own queen.

Your new queen doesn’t have to be marked, but having a marked queen is a plus, particularly when you’re looking for her because the mark makes her easier to identify.

Put your new hive equipment where you plan to locate your new family of bees.

You’ll need only to put out one deep hive body at this point. Remove four of the ten foundation frames and set them aside. You’ll need them later.

When your new marked queen arrives, it’s time to divide!

Smoke and open your existing colony as usual.

Find the frame with the queen and set it aside in a safe place.

An extra empty hive body and cover will do just fine. Better yet, use a small “nuc” hive (available from your supplier). These mini-hives contain only five frames.

Now remove three frames of capped brood (frames with cells of developing pupae) plus all the bees that are on each of them.

Place these three brood frames and bees in the center of the new hive. That still leaves one slot open because your removed four frames of foundation. The extra slot, however, provides the space that you’ll need to hang the new queen cage.

Using two frame nails, fashion a hanging bracket for the new queen cage (candy side up) and hang the cage between brood frames in the middle of the new hive.

Make sure you have removed the cork stopper or metal disc, revealing the candy plug.

Put a hive-top feeder on your new colony and fill it with sugar syrup.

Turn your attention back to the original hive.

Carefully put the frame containing the queen back into the colony. Add three of the new foundation frames (to replace the three brood frames that you removed earlier). Place these frames closest to the outer walls of the hive.

Add a hive-top feeder to your original hive and fill it with sugar syrup.

Congratulations, you’re the proud parent of a new colony! But wait, you say, “I’ve got one new frame of foundation left over.” Good. That’s what you’ll use next week to replace what will then be an empty queen cage. If you used the bottom board installation technique, this step is eliminated.


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