# Proof you dont always need a suit or smoker!



## beestudent (Jun 10, 2015)

Here's an inspection I did today on 8/15/2015. This is proof you don't always need all your equipment! I went in with just a hive tool!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnEtdsozNfI&feature=youtu.be

The video wont work right for a bit, its still loading.


----------



## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

Can't see the video yet but it is pretty common knowledge that at certain times of the year and at certain times of a new hive's development, the bees are not at all aggressive in defending their hive.

I did an inspection today on booming hives coming off a dearth and added supers and would not have wanted you anywhere near the apiary with only your hive tool as protection. 

Wayne


----------



## Agis Apiaries (Jul 22, 2014)

Not much of a surprise for a brand new colony. 

Not a lot of stores in that hive for the winter... :scratch:


----------



## rmcpb (Aug 15, 2012)

That's not a gamble I would be prepared to take. I always wear a veil at least. Yesterday I did my big spring inspection of my yard hives, I work bare handed. Stopped counting at 47 stings and that was only about half way through. Normally they are very quiet hives but they can really turn it on if something p***es them off.


----------



## jly500 (Jul 28, 2013)

I agree. You should always at least wear a veil. Bee's can be calm one day and aggressive the next day. My most docile hives get like my wife once in awhile. MEAN.


----------



## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

Well, I have to admit that your bees seemed particularly calm today. Enjoy them like that while you can. Once that hive starts getting some population in it with stores to defend, their mood can change fast.

I noticed that when you place the frames back in the hive, they often go in backwards from the way they were originally. One frame with brood on one side & stores on the other was returned with the brood now separated from the rest by the side with stores. I usually try to place them back the way I removed them to avoid splitting the brood nest unnecessarily. Is this something that you find to be unimportant?

Nice to see you enjoying the inspection with a cooperative crew of bees.

Wayne


----------



## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

Come on down here if you want some real "hands on" experience. I have a few hives that are almost at max capacity. Better bring your gear....and I mean all of it. You have a good start there little grasshopper.


----------



## JConnolly (Feb 21, 2015)

If you aren't going to at least wear a veil, then at least wear some wrap around safety glasses. I learned that lesson the hard way about 40 years ago on one of my grandfathers apiaries when a bee stung me on the eye. The swollen eyeball lasted for a very painful week. I was lucky there was no permanent damage. Sometimes I don't wear a veil, but I always wear safety glasses.


Be careful,when turning your frames that you do not tip the plane of the comb towards horizontal. If it breaks out you will have a huge mess and some livid bees. I noticed a couple of times that you tilted the frames towards horizontal. Here is how to see both sides while keeping the comb plane vertical.


----------



## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Your time will come when some bees sting the out of you and you will look fondly back on making this video.


----------



## Pete O (Jul 13, 2013)

There has to be some old proverb to the contrary but I can't think of one. My mask and smoker will always be at my side.


----------



## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

I could probably get away with that with the hives on either end of my stand on most days. The one in the middle ... heck, one came out and got me on the ear last weekend just for _looking_ at them. We got that as a nuc from a fellow club member early this summer, and they were hot from the start. I suspect some Russian in them. S'OK, though, otherwise they're productive.

I can fill the top feeders on any of them with no gear on.

I think most strains are pretty peaceful if they don't feel threatened. Our apiary enclosure is skunk-proof. The local bee inspector frequently works in tee shirt and shorts.


----------



## jly500 (Jul 28, 2013)

Thy veil and smoker are at my side at all times. Surely no stings will come my way all the days of my life.


----------



## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

Some lessons are more painful than others.


----------



## kaizen (Mar 20, 2015)

student.......keep in mind when you post stuff like that you're going to have new people looking to get into the hobby. you should make some distinctions to them as to why your bees were not stinging you. didn't watch the whole thing maybe you did later. like said above should be telling people to always have a lit smoker ready. god forbid if someone forgoes the cost of a smoker and suit on your advice and dies


----------



## kaizen (Mar 20, 2015)

Pete O said:


> There has to be some old proverb to the contrary but I can't think of one. My mask and smoker will always be at my side.


how about 
"I'm too old to know everything." 
Oscar wilde


----------



## Agis Apiaries (Jul 22, 2014)

Pete O said:


> There has to be some old proverb to the contrary but I can't think of one. My mask and smoker will always be at my side.


Yeah, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I shall fear no bees.
For protection is with me. Thy smoke and thy veil, they comfort me.


----------



## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

beestudent, for the first few years that i posted to the forum my tag line read:

'disclaimer: novice beekeeper here who knows just enough to be dangerous'

feel free to borrow it.

i hope that you will take this in the spirit that it is given, and by that i mean that i hope you will maintain your high enthusiam and channel the energy of your youth into becoming a really great beekeeper, but i think you should consider respecting your bees for the wild creatures that they are and stop playing around with them like they are some kind of new toy.


----------



## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

I was cracking tops in my outyard to see how far along the top supers were from being filled with only a veil and a hive tool, first colony didn't care, second colony nailed me 12 times. When I first got bees I could do everything without a veil and sometimes even without smoke... Today was also the first time Ive ever gotten attacked for running the sickle mower between pallets of bees. Go figure.


----------



## dleemc1 (Dec 31, 2012)

beestudent said:


> Here's an inspection I did today on 8/15/2015. This is proof you don't always need all your equipment! I went in with just a hive tool!
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnEtdsozNfI&feature=youtu.be
> 
> The video wont work right for a bit, its still loading.


I always use a little smoke, it moves bees around and I like mine enough to not want to mash them. but I didn,t watch the vidooooo


----------



## beestudent (Jun 10, 2015)

its easy to get a few bees moved, just blow on them.


----------



## lemmje (Feb 23, 2015)

beestudent said:


> its easy to get a few bees moved, just blow on them.


Yeah, do that.......


----------



## rmcpb (Aug 15, 2012)

Beestudent, you will move a few bees by breathing on them but you won't push a whole box down so you can put another on without crushing lots of bees.

Take a step back and do a lot of listening, there is a LOT of free knowledge here for you to absorb.


----------



## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

where are the bees?


----------



## Agis Apiaries (Jul 22, 2014)

beestudent said:


> its easy to get a few bees moved, just blow on them.


Try that with some guard bees late in the season. You'll move them alright. And they'll in turn move you... as fast as your feet will carry you if you aren't wearing protection.

Take the advice of the experienced beekeepers above. They aren't giving you this advice and correction to belittle you. They are doing it to save you some grief down the road and to try and help ensure that you will have a long and enjoyable run at beekeeping.


----------



## lemmje (Feb 23, 2015)

Agis Apiaries said:


> Try that with some guard bees late in the season. You'll move them alright. And they'll in turn move you... as fast as your feet will carry you if you aren't wearing protection.


Well said. 

Many, many times i crack open a hive for a quick peek and 99% of the time all is well. Several times, including Thursday last, in less than a second i have taken a sting to the face. I know better, and i still do it, but please don't preach this philosophy.


----------



## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

So much to cover here... I won't go over all of it. Try cracking the inner cover in October to add syrup or whatever. Those bees are too stretched for August... it isn't June. Would want to see more food, but there is still a little time for that. If you want to get them comb feed them like you mean it two gallons in paint cans on top.

Take an outside frame out when you're pulling combs. What you're doing popping out of the middle is a darn good way to roll your queen. Heck she was even on one of them. 

In general... WAY too much jacking around with combs for mid August. They will eventually clamp down and there will be big gaps in different places in the colony which may spell death when they start brooding and can't hop up to new stores.

Good looking queen and good brood pattern. It is probably a bit counter productive in the sense that brood stretched and spaced is less efficient to care for than the nest as they would typically organize it.

I could open colonies with nothing on 9 of 10 times for the most part. You pop a hive that just went queenless 12 hours ago due to your constant jacking and you'll be well aware. Your comment "You can do whatever you want with your bees. Weither or not they survive is another matter." Is spot on. Be prepared to eat that statement in about 8 months. Too much moving stuff around. Too much. Broodnest in August ought to be pretty much untouched.


----------



## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

For your own safety... Wear your freaking veil! You crack that cover when the flow slams shut and you'll likely be sorry.


----------



## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Also... Was anyone asking for proof? We already knew. This is like me making a video telling you I have proof that my car's battery wasn't dead. But you never asked and do you really think I am going to upload the video where my can doesn't work? 

I have discussed this non veil stuff with many others. I think less of someone's intelligence if they don't wear a veil. Same with a seatbelt. It's dumb to roll those dice sometimes. You're bees don't care if you're stark naked or in a deep sea diving suit. They think no less of yoi either way. And a nice new colony ain't squat compared to a real 3 deep colony. 
Be careful, be smart, and listen to what lots of more experienced folks are suggesting.


----------



## Billboard (Dec 28, 2014)

Stupitity at its best.. That's all I have to say. You'll learn the hard way.


----------



## John Scifres (Mar 25, 2014)

I too applaud your enthusiasm. It is certainly true that "you don't ALWAYS need a suit...". But qualifiers are there for a reason and I suspect you know that. It's fun communing with the bees au naturale. The trick is recognizing when you are likely to get away with it.

Try not to blow on the wrong bee without a veil on. Stings on the lips hurt like hell. Inside the nose and around the eyes are even worse.

Thanks for posting.


----------



## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

Would like to invite you to work with my AMM if you ever come to Germany.

Those black bees would give you some respect. My Carniolans are snug in contrast.
My mentor tells me never to open hives without protection if you are a beginner.

When I attended bee class last year nobody used protection.
Then we opened a queenless hive (carniolans). Had been queenless some time.
15 stings, one woman got an allergic shock and we had to call rescue, and our youngest member, an eleven year old girl told her ma never to have bees in their garden.


----------



## mcon672 (Mar 5, 2015)

Hey beestudent, I used to blow on them to make them move and not wear a veil also. Until they showed me the error of my ways one day. Lol.


----------



## manpunchingbear (Jun 26, 2015)

Yikes! I checked on one of three hives at my father in law's farm yesterday wearing a full bee suit with the sleeves tied off with paracord, a baseball cap under the screened mask, thick rubber industrial gloves, rubber boots, three pairs of socks, and canvas overalls and *still* enjoyed two stings on my knee when I knelt down to pick up the hive tool that I dropped. This was a hive started from a nuc last April and the temperament has been steadily declining over the summer from mildly irritable to demon hot. My gloved hands and overalls were covered in a layer of bee and I am thankful for all of that protection. My teenage sons often help when I do anything with the hives, they bolted as fast as they could to the car when they saw the cloud of bees zip out and cover me... and we're in Pennsylvania -- not even NEAR the southern states.

If I knew that I had a gentle hive or yard full of gentle gives and that experience was stable over a number of years, I might feel comfortable with limited protection (only because I have walked through other beekeeper's yards of hives with shorts and a t-shirt) but surely not a newly established hive and definitely not these ones.

I am headed back out there this morning to deal with that hive and the two others -- maybe I will shoot some video to add to the library of hot hive documentaries on what hives should NOT look like. If there are any takers out there on some free honey bees, let me know in the next couple of hours


----------



## DanielD (Jul 21, 2012)

Pete O said:


> There has to be some old proverb to the contrary but I can't think of one. My mask and smoker will always be at my side.


Pride comes before a fall.

I hope your awakening isn't too hard on you beestudent


----------



## lemmje (Feb 23, 2015)

manpunchingbear said:


> Yikes!
> 
> ...
> 
> maybe I will shoot some video to add to the library of hot hive documentaries on what hives should NOT look like.



Why not requeen? There are plenty of queens still available. Why put up with such bees?


----------



## Pete O (Jul 13, 2013)

At some time in the future "student" will get a bad grip on a frame and it may drop a couple of inches. That's when he will realize the value of head protection. We all drop frames at some point.

Some days I can lift the inner cover only an inch when the guard bees shoot out; other times I can do as "student" has done but that's rare. Last year I removed just a top cover and was stung immediately in the ear; that sting led to a serious allergic reaction.


----------



## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

kaizen said:


> ......keep in mind when you post stuff like that you're going to have new people looking to get into the hobby.......


This is an all too common problem when people new to something takes new and limited knowledge and experience and makes instructional videos. 

Right off the bat, bad information is given in title of the video. It doesn't include the word "always" as does the thread here but simply "Proof you can go in a hive with nothing but a hive tool." Not inconceivable that other newbies might see this and assume this is the wisdom of an experienced and knowledgeable beekeeper.

I got my first hives in 1977 and had them for about 10 years. Then started back up 8 years ago. When I get a bit more experience and knowledge, I'll think about making an instructional video.

Yes, "I'm too old to know everything." One of my favorite Oscar Wilde quotes, kaizen.

Wayne


----------



## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

Beestudent, you have a lot of positive energy. As you get older you will learn through work policies etc... why this behavior is frowned upon. Not that there is anything 'wrong' with it, just that it is very bad practice to forego personal protection equipment. It's not that you need PPE every time you're doing certain things, but it helps mitigate any potential risks. It's good to be an excited noob, just don't be 'that' noob. I can open up anyone of my hives without a veil but I choose not too because getting stung in the face is not pleasant and it's highly avoidable by simply wearing a veil. There's some big names on youtube in the bee world that do this, I know, I have to give them all two thumbs down, especially to JP at times as he promotes approaching bees w/o protection the most and it's not a behavior to be promoted.


----------



## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

biggraham610 said:


> where are the bees?



Exactly. Looked like a really weak colony with hardly any bees.


----------



## Agis Apiaries (Jul 22, 2014)

Nabber86 said:


> Exactly. Looked like a really weak colony with hardly any bees.


And no winter stores. Too agressive in making late splits.


----------



## trottet1 (Jul 18, 2013)

So what was the point of this video actually? were you showing off or maybe just getting a little over confident? It's cool that you want to have that intimate relationship with your bees, but I'm not sure if you realize that you are promoting the wrong message here. also, as far as being intimate and "becoming one with the bee". you will have plenty of that with PPE on. Heck my hands get stung through the gloves every time I go in. or when I am weed whacking near by, a rogue bee will get me. I really think you should re think your practices and I am just being honest here but... I think the only one impressed by your lack of PPE is well....... you. be smart, don't be cool.

todd


----------



## Barhopper (Mar 5, 2015)

I wish I could do that with my hives. I have people tell me all the time they don't have to wear anything. I invite them to come work my hives with me. The only one that showed up made it almost through one then bailed. When you've got 6 hives in a row that are double deep brood and up to 3 supers that are slap full of bees you'll think twice about that statement. I always have visitors fully suited up for my protection and theirs.


----------



## Treehopper (Dec 9, 2012)

Say after me..."this is my smoker. There are many like it, but this one is mine. My smoker is my best friend..."


----------



## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Nabber86 said:


> Exactly. Looked like a really weak colony with hardly any bees.





Agis Apiaries said:


> And no winter stores. Too agressive in making late splits.


This is why I made no splits last year. I thought I strong hives last year... I am laughing at my newbie self in the past from the present.


----------



## jadebees (May 9, 2013)

My calmest hive was on full alert yesterday. Usually its ok to look into it. Yesterday, it was instant defense mode. I always wear a veil. I got stung on my eyeball 5 yrs ago. It was blind for 5 days, and not ok for 3 weeks. You dont want to go there.


----------



## beamero (May 7, 2013)

Live and learn; each colony is different. Very misleading video for new beekeepers. You're going to get someone into a bad situation with this advice.


----------



## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

I always laugh because if 25 minutes into this 35 minute inspection (30+ minutes... really?) he drops a frame or bangs one into a box on accident... this video would never have been uploaded. Or would you, beestudent, have uploaded it with the explanation that it is "PROOF you ALWAYS need a suit or smoker. 

Everyone saying that he is giving bad advice or whatever... I agree. But take a look out there at all the ding-dongs on YouTube brushing their bees with the mustaches and "barefoot" and shirtless and whatever.
Is it really worth risking your eyesight? Serious question. You're talking about a possible life changing, split second reaction of one of the thousands of stinging insects you're jacking around with... that's a whole bunch riding on the "hope" that this is the time you don't need your smoker.

Those bees butting you are telling you something. That's the warning sign... it isn't "nothing to be worried about" as you claim in the video, beestudent.


----------



## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

One day he will have a hive with a high population. Then, he will post a video saying, "I used to go into starter hives that were too busy scrambling around trying to build a viable colony to bother me without a veil". I really don't care how anyone handles their bees. I have done that many times. When I first had my hives, and they like his were struggling to just sustain, and there was a flow on. My only problem with it is that by posting it as some kind of image that _this is how bees are_, some idiot will get hurt trying to emulate it. I will be honest, I didn't watch but the first 10 seconds. When I saw the inner cover popped, and did not see any bees on it and the first frame pulled with about 5 bees on it, I knew what he was working with. When I pop the inner cover of my weakest nuc right now it is black with bees. You are welcome to give it a whirl if you are in the neighborhood. And, my bees are calm, and you will still get lit up. G


----------



## kaizen (Mar 20, 2015)

jwcarlson said:


> Everyone saying that he is giving bad advice or whatever... I agree. But take a look out there at all the ding-dongs on YouTube brushing their bees with the mustaches and "barefoot" and shirtless and whatever


I think part of being a beekeeper is spreading knowledge.....the truth . If we can stop one bad video and give beestudent some life wisdom then this thread has a positive outcome. unfortunately as he hasn't taken down the video I don't think the message was received.


----------



## lemmje (Feb 23, 2015)

I took four more stings today manipulating my largest and strongest hive -- need them to donate some resources to boost another hive. A friend of mine has one, young, small colony that he has inspected twice. Here's what he texted me:

"How do you get stung so much? I went through my entire hive the other day with no smoke and no hand protection"

Big difference between inspecting and manipulating. 

And yes, i was wearing a veil and using my smoker.


----------



## Billboard (Dec 28, 2014)

I think since this video post, he has kept a low profile and hasn't started anymore threads. He will be back in about a week, bragging how he went in one of his hives. But they can't get anything accomplished cuz he always in the hives moving frames around and interrupting them non stop.


----------



## kaizen (Mar 20, 2015)

Billboard said:


> I think since this video post, he has kept a low profile and hasn't started anymore threads. He will be back in about a week, bragging how he went in one of his hives. But they can't get anything accomplished cuz he always in the hives moving frames around and interrupting them non stop.


now......now.....lets not berate the boy. I have faith he'll take corrective actions and rejoin us as the student who is learning and being taught by our shared wisdom


----------



## Billboard (Dec 28, 2014)

I hope so


----------



## rmcpb (Aug 15, 2012)

Ditto


----------



## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

You don't always need a seatbelt... but it sure is handy to have it on already when you need it!


----------



## minz (Jan 15, 2011)

Was Bernard Huuval on this forum or on another? This kid was wearing clothes, not like that crazy German guy- who I really liked his posts.


----------



## GaryG74 (Apr 9, 2014)

I have a nuc with more bees than I saw in his whole hive.


----------



## beestudent (Jun 10, 2015)

Billboard said:


> I think since this video post, he has kept a low profile and hasn't started anymore threads. He will be back in about a week, bragging how he went in one of his hives. But they can't get anything accomplished cuz he always in the hives moving frames around and interrupting them non stop.


you know what? I really don't care, and if it was you, a first year beek, with nothing to lose except 1 or 2 hives, not some office man taking over 1000 production colonies-knowing nothing, you would want to hear what other beeks do to, which i do, don't get me wrong, i appreciate all the advice, but every person is gonna do what their gonna do to put it plainly. If i screw up very badly this year, i can start again next year, and not do the same thing next year! imagine that!


----------



## mcon672 (Mar 5, 2015)

I like beestudent's enthusiasm. He looks pretty young, this is his first year, he's already doing splits and cutouts and is talking queen breeding for next year. Just one thing beestudent, trust what everyone is trying to tell you and WEAR YOUR GEAR (all caps for you beestudent  ), you will be glad you did when you open your normally nice hive one day and they pour out all crazy mad. People are only telling you this because either they (me) made this mistake or someone they know of did and they don't want to see you or anyone else potentially get hurt.


----------



## jhinshaw (Aug 14, 2014)

Beestudent: I think if you want to bee keep in your underwear you can do it. The only person who would get stung is YOU and in my opinion, working with your bees is about being comfortable no matter how many bees you have in your hive or what part of the season you are in. 

I'm in my second year keeping bees (so I'm still pretty green myself) and I work with just a veiled jacket, no gloves. I prefer to work bare handed so I am more careful with what I'm doing with my hands. My husband wears a full suit. So far, during all my inspections, treating the bees, robbing etc I have not been stung. My husband in his full suit has been stung a lot unfortunately lol. [To all you old beeks reading this, I know my time is coming!!] 

So I think it's a very individual thing. Don't get discouraged by folks giving you down the road! Keep working. Don't be ashamed to suit up, experiment with layers or spraying with sugar water instead of smoke for calming the bees...though I am a big advocate for smoking the bees to keep them away from being crushed. There's nothing more depressing than hearing them crunch....


----------



## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

Guys, stop bashing him.
In Germany, most beekeepers work without veil, but get stung.
So live and let live.
Beestudent, you are a real man even under a veil, believe me.
Sibylle


----------



## Slow Drone (Apr 19, 2014)

SiWolke the point is beekeepers in the USA work without veil or gloves also but we know when we can and when we can't. If someone new to beekeeping read this post or saw the video they would be under the delusion they don't need protection and it costs someone their life. Working without protection is for experienced beekeepers or those working closely under a mentor. Would your mentor advocate working without protection to someone with very little to no experience? I've kept and still keep bees in AHB areas protection is a must there's nothing manly working without protection in these area it's just plain foolish. Yes there are some bashing the young man but there are others giving good advice and bashing and ridicule is some peoples method of mentoring. Such were the methods my mentor employed, he was and old German fellow and a heck of a good mentor I thank him to this day.


----------



## Alpha11 (Oct 6, 2013)

Young man, please listen to what these folks have said. There's a lot of truth in what they are talking about. I know a lot of these comments could have been a bit more polite. I think we all can agree on that, however if you're getting your ideas from YouTube please take all that content with a grain of salt. Sure, those guys are opening hives and doing cut outs with no gear but they have years of experience under their belts and can almost "read" the bees demeanor. If at the very least please use your smoker. Like the Fat Bee Man says "Your smoker is your last line of defense".
Good luck!
That is all and carry on. 
Alpha


----------



## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

Thank you for correcting me Slow Drone.
You`re just right.
My mentor always insists on me wearing gear, even if he does not himself.

> I've kept and still keep bees in AHB areas protection is a must there's nothing manly working without protection in these area it's just plain foolish. <

That`s true.
When young you do a lot of foolish things, but it`s better not to publish them on UTube.


----------



## j.kuder (Dec 5, 2010)

beestudent said:


> Here's an inspection I did today on 8/15/2015. This is proof you don't always need all your equipment! I went in with just a hive tool!
> 
> any way who said you always need a bee suit and smoker. most of us already know how to work bees you aint tellin us nothin new. many years ago when I had a sign shop one of my employees mike bought a new table saw for his shop and he was asking about using the blade guard. he said he was afraid of cutting a finger off. well my other employee steve (an experienced cabinet maker) heard us talking and he came walking into the room holding two hands up in the air proclaiming he had been working on the table saw without a guard for the last 10 years and he still had all 10 fingers. next day he had 9 and 1/2.......... proceed with caution.


----------



## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

I've been foolish enough to try and take a quick peek into a hive while unprotected and it can go two ways. You either get attacked or not. 50/50
It's kind of like peeking into a bear's cave. Same deal...50/50. You get attacked or not.

I always take the biggest gun I can find when peeking into bear caves and feel the need for protection when messing with bees. Sure I've been stung a lot but not the face please. Got stung on my **** once and it wasn't as bad as you'd think. 
Eyes and lips...I don't want to try that so I'm wearing a veil at the minimum. I walk around in the apiary unprotected but once I pick one to inspect...the smoker gets lit and the gear goes on.


----------



## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

I have been stung on the face once or twice and the questions from all of my friends are embarrassing. I wear a veil to feed if I am feeding more than one hive or feeding a mean hive.

If you are in the apiary and don't have the smoker lit and you need it, you are up that well known creek without a paddle.


----------



## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

beestudent said:


> you know what? I really don't care, and if it was you, a first year beek, with nothing to lose except 1 or 2 hives, not some office man taking over 1000 production colonies-knowing nothing, you would want to hear what other beeks do to, which i do, don't get me wrong, i appreciate all the advice, but every person is gonna do what their gonna do to put it plainly. If i screw up very badly this year, i can start again next year, and not do the same thing next year! imagine that!


While you are correct that you aren't "out much" if all your colonies die you are also "without much" next season if that's the case. You don't learn what it takes to manage a strong second year colony if your colonies die their first winter every year or are so weak that they never build up. While everyone likes to act like beekeeping is some sort of secret code and you need a special decoder ring to figure out... the truth is that there's a very simple formula for new beekeepers like you and I. The goal in year one is to learn and keep your bees alive so that you can build from them next spring. Packages can't hold a candle to the reproductive power of a strong queen/colony the year after she was mated... You can't really get upset when you get advice you don't like... you've made countless posts on here asking about things from orientation flights to bearding. Your other videos on youtube... you always ask "what do you think?" "what's going on?" "any advice/ideas?" Something like that.

You can't get offended when people do just as you ask. I guess if you wanted a bunch of slaps on the back for risking your eyeballs by doing what you did, you should have found fringe beekeeping group on Facebook and posted it there. You've received gobs of sound advice on here... But you like to ignore what you're not already planning on doing anyway, so why even ask? The people here are only giving advice because they care about the future of you as a beekeeper. Because bees have been good enough in their lives that they like to share the information they have so that they can help others. The people who don't want to do that aren't on here... it's pretty simple. So when someone says "wear your veil" it's because they don't want you going freaking blind because you're too dense to realize you're playing with a bit of a loaded gun.
When they tell you "don't look in the colony you have raising a queen for two weeks or so" it isn't because they get their jollies from keeping you out of your hives or something. It's because their experience has shown them that colonies left ALONE during the queen rearing process are more successful than those who are picked through every day or two the entire time they're trying to make a queen. 
While this year your attitude is "well if they all die I guess I will just start over next year it's not a big deal"... I don't believe that. We know you care about your bees, regardless of your total colony count. And you'll be sad and/or devastated if you pop the tops on a warm day in March to find a dead cluster in all of your hives. Any of us would.

I don't know if you know this or not... but winter is coming and you're going to have to leave your colonies closed up. No swapping frames around in December. No green syrup tracking project. No late season splitting in December.  
With any luck, beestudent, you'll have more bees than you know what to do with next year like I ended up with this year. These people are extending their knowledge to you because 1) You've asked... and 2) Because they care about you in some sense.
Beesource, like any forum, is a place to share information and largely there is not gain to be made for the people willing to help. It's just something they do out of their own goodness (or boredom?). It doesn't matter to any of us if you get stung in your eye, or all your bees die, or you roll your queen every couple of weeks because you don't really know how to pull frames. It's no skin off of our back if your virgin queen gets balled because you opened the colony at the wrong time and they decide to dispatch her.

We're telling you because we think all of those things matter to YOU and we're trying to help you avoid them.


----------



## jly500 (Jul 28, 2013)

Very well said jw. Beestudent I commend you. You are much further ahead your first year then I ever was. I don't want to read about you in the morning paper about being stung to death. I do think there is a very bright future ahead of you. Take advantage of these people's advice. This place has some extremely knowledgeable people on here.  Take advantage of there free advice. I do. Some of these guys get paid to speak about bee's and on here we get them for free. Who knows you just might be the Michael Bush and Palmer of your generation. Now wouldn't that be nice. I can see it now my grandkids saying this is the way Beestudent does it.


----------



## kaizen (Mar 20, 2015)

kaizen said:


> now......now.....lets not berate the boy. I have faith he'll take corrective actions and rejoin us as the student who is learning and being taught by our shared wisdom


guess I was wrong. young and dumb and still defending his video. disappointing. going to be interesting if anyone listens to your advice here again. you could have been an asset to the forum but you chose to stomp your feet


----------



## 1102009 (Jul 31, 2015)

jwcarlson
:applause::thumbsup:


----------



## MJuric (Jul 12, 2010)

*I did an inspection today on booming hives coming off a dearth and added supers and would not have wanted you anywhere near the apiary with only your hive tool as protection. *

Personally, unless you're a person that has little or no reaction to stings...which I am not one of, it makes no sense to me to not wear a suit. Sure, some of the times I'm in and out and could have gotten away doing it in my birthday suit. However move over one hive and they can come at you pretty strong. Go in at the wrong time of the day, year, weather etc and what was a completely docile hive a few days ago will attempt to rip your face off. 

It's just not worth it. I was pulling honey off the other day and we are in a dearth. I counted 15 stingers in one of my gloves. I got stung six times, twice thru my suit and the rest thru my pant legs. In the same yard, same time, I had a couple hives that barely came to bump me a few times, others came at me with a vengeance the second I popped the top. No suit, I probably would have been in the hospital, at very least in a WHOLE lot of pain.


----------



## Agis Apiaries (Jul 22, 2014)

We have one new hive that you could inspect a few short months ago with no protection. We just added a third super, it's getting late in the season, and they are not at all docile like they were. No protection? They'll make you pay. Wear at least a veil!

And JW's post is right on! :applause:


----------



## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

MJuric,
I don't own a full suit. I do have a ventilated jacket/veil combo. If I'm going to do anything very intensive with the bees, I wear that. Otherwise it's my zippered bottom veil and tshirt, which isn't great for bending over and an bee occasionally finds its way in. I find the jacket/veil pretty uncomfortable and because of it's bulk I tend to get hooked on things and knock things over because the sleeves will catch/grab stuff (hive tool, smoker, etc) when I'm reaching. 

Always wear jeans, unless it's in my backyard, then I might just have a shorts/tshirt/veil on.


----------



## Dan the bee guy (Jun 18, 2015)

beestudent said:


> you know what? I really don't care, and if it was you, a first year beek, with nothing to lose except 1 or 2 hives, not some office man taking over 1000 production colonies-knowing nothing, you would want to hear what other beeks do to, which i do, don't get me wrong, i appreciate all the advice, but every person is gonna do what their gonna do to put it plainly. If i screw up very badly this year, i can start again next year, and not do the same thing next year! imagine that!


Don't worry about it I don't own a suit with just a few hives the chances of getting a hot hive is small. Every time I work my hives I'm wearing shorts, sandals and a t shirt I do put on my veil but if it gets to hot that comes off to. Work with what your comfortable in.


----------



## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

Dan the bee guy said:


> Don't worry about it I don't own a suit with just a few hives the chances of getting a hot hive is small. Every time I work my hives I'm wearing shorts, sandals and a t shirt I do put on my veil but if it gets to hot that comes off to. Work with what your comfortable in.


The chances of getting a hot hive is small? My hives tend to run the spectrum from docile to hot depending on the time of year and many other factors.


----------



## brettj777 (Feb 27, 2013)

Beestudent. You don't sound like you are hear to learn, more to teach others what you think you know.

Yes you can start over every year. but what happens when the number of available packages dries up? What happens when you are given enough money to buy more packages? What happens when you no longer want to care for your bees (or go off to college)? Will you just let them die?

It sounds like folks have been sorta hard on you for the video. But maybe if you had simply posted it and called it, "My inspection video." You might have had a better response. When 1st year beekeepers come in here and declare what they know is true....that usually causes a loud buzz to emanate from the Internet....ignore it at your peril


----------



## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

Pretty much anything I do in my apiary or outyard I wear a veil and a tee shirt. I don't like stings but they happen. When I move bees or work for the commercial near me, I wear a veil, long sleeved khaki shirt, gloves, and sometimes gaiters (when moving bees especially). A camel back is great to have too when you're going hours at a time in a yard. I learned from experience this guy can too, hopefully not at the cost of his vision. Live and learn.


----------



## maudbid (Jul 21, 2014)

When I was first thinking of getting into bees I watched a lot of videos. Many of them show beeks working their hives with little or no protection. I was led to believe that an experienced beek can work a hive without protection.

Despite knowing that a lot of what you see is garbage, I still had to learn the lesson the hard way. I'm still getting stung because I'm lagging in upping my protection as the bees are upping their defenses. With this dearth, and the way the hives built up earlier from strong flows, they are all pretty nasty. Where I could open any hive with only a veil and no smoke a couple of months ago, I can not even crack any hive without first smoking and wearing jacket, long pants and gloves.

Working a hive without protection is not a sign of being a good beek. Keeping hives alive, healthy and productive is a sign of a good beek.


----------



## the kid (Nov 26, 2006)

beestudent said:


> its easy to get a few bees moved, just blow on them.


I do not wear a suit , vail ,or gloves ,, I do use a smoker , have 3 suits but have had them on maybe 3or 4 times got first hive 06 ...... and gentle in the hives I am not ,, if I want to move bees I push them aside with my finger or I hold the frame and hit th hand holding the frame , the girls drop on the top of the hive and run in ,, and I go in the hives way to much ,,,


----------



## larryh (Jul 28, 2014)

it's all good.. as long as we also get to see the video of bee student getting lit up.


----------



## beestudent (Jun 10, 2015)

Okay, okay, It is true, some people probably think I just go like crazy with only that hive tool, but most of the time(%99), i go in with gloves and/or the smoker, and sometimes if i find if one of my hives is exceptionally ticked-off, i get my jacket on. I kinda was showing off on this video, but this was only the 3rd or 4th time since my first week of having bees that i went in WITHOUT any protection. so, what I'm trying to say is, I was wrong in not saying that doing this isn't normal.


also, I'm kind of laughing at this, I don't need a college degree to be a beekeeper, do I? 


brettj777 said:


> go off to college?


----------



## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Beestudent, could have used you to blow some of these bees off the quilt box for me.  
Windy, rain threat, cool, and likely swarming situation based on my last quick peak. I was right some cups with eggs/day old larva. 
Going to have to do something, unfortunately. Would rather have not touched them, but I don't want to lose this queen. I thought I'd be ok lettinf them crowd this late. Should have given them boxes weeks ago. :/ thought two deeps and a medium would be sufficient after splitting them four ways. 
Nope. 

Go ahead, give them a couple puffs... Clear 'em off.


----------



## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

:thumbsup:


----------



## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

double post


----------



## Margot1d (Jun 23, 2012)

beestudent said:


> Okay, okay, It is true, some people probably think I just go like crazy with only that hive tool, but most of the time(%99), i go in with gloves and/or the smoker, and sometimes if i find if one of my hives is exceptionally ticked-off, i get my jacket on. I kinda was showing off on this video, but this was only the 3rd or 4th time since my first week of having bees that i went in WITHOUT any protection. so, what I'm trying to say is, I was wrong in not saying that doing this isn't normal.
> 
> 
> also, I'm kind of laughing at this, I don't need a college degree to be a beekeeper, do I?


I liked your video Beestudent. Everyone likes to show off a bit especially when you are excited about something new. Your name says it all, you are learning and that's great! When I take beek selfies I am seldom wearing my space suit. It does get on my nerves though when people brag about not wearing protection. It makes me think they have not have much experience. I almost always suit up and when I don't I find the experience is worse for me and the bees. Now gloves are the opposite. When I dont wear them the experience is better all around.


----------



## Colobee (May 15, 2014)

I wish I had video of me working my hot hive last year. Hundreds and hundreds of bees bouncing off my (full suit) veil. A constant thumpity-thump- thump thump of bees hitting my head. The roar of scores of angry bees. Dozens dug into my arms, trying to sting through the suit. A few finding the ****** in my armor ( where the glove gauntlet band pinches tight around the elbow). 

Yeah, maybe you don't ALWAYS need a suit, but... you just never know.


----------



## Margot1d (Jun 23, 2012)

Or twenty bees trying to sting each hand every time you pull a frame. 50 bees on your legs some how knowing where your socks are over your pants and their stingers will make contact. You won't see that video on Youtube.


----------



## RIbee (Apr 26, 2015)

jly500 said:


> My most docile hives get like my wife once in awhile. MEAN.


Does your wife wear perfume, or use scented soap and lotion? If she went "au natural" (without perfume) she might fare better. Also, and I say this without unsavory assumption, if she talks a lot, they might not like that, ask her to be quiet and breathe through her nose.


----------



## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

RIbee said:


> Does your wife wear perfume, or use scented soap and lotion? If she went "au natural" (without perfume) she might fare better. Also, and I say this without unsavory assumption, if she talks a lot, they might not like that, ask her to be quiet and breathe through her nose.


I read the analogy as that of a hot hive reminding him of his wife.:lookout: Not the hive being hot towards his wife. G


----------



## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Split the hive pictured above this AM. They were not amused at my early, cool morning intrusion, but I didn't have any other time. Started out with just a veil and hooded sweatshirt. Had one buzzing under the veil in my ear before I even pulled a frame. Back to the car for the suit. Finished with 4-6 stings on fingers and wrist. One benefit from frequent stings (for me) is that I simply don't react badly any more. No worse than a mosquito bite... thank God. Last year was rough with every sting swelling to the point of impeding my movement. Now if I don't get stung working the hives (I usually don't), I'll snag a pesky one or one crawling on the ground that I injured and sting myself with her.

These bees this morning are usually lambs, I've even opened them with thunder cracking or even with really light rain to do a quick check seeing if they need a new box or whatever. This morning was not one of those days. But we're talking about two deeps and a medium packed with bees who are wanting to swarm. So they're a little feisty. Now wait a week for them to get their swarm cells good and capped and go cut out all but a couple and let them do their thing. WAY WAY WAY WAY late here for this nonsense... but I'm not going to let them fly off, that does neither of us (me or bees) any good.


----------



## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

Yep, I'm figuring I might be dealing with some of the same this weekend. Weird summer. Built more nucs. G


----------



## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

biggraham610 said:


> Yep, I'm figuring I might be dealing with some of the same this weekend. Weird summer. Built more nucs. G


Weird summer is a good way to put it. No dearth here at all this year. Last year around this time was slim pickings. But I am still new and still getting used to things here. The flow is a bit later than I thought it was. We were sooooo wet in June and it's dried up a bit now, but having some rain shots on occasion. I never imagined needing this many boxes and frames this year. It's crazy. Of course I didn't expect to be at 14 or 15 colonies (I haven't counted recently), either. Some timely feeding and my bees have drawn well over 120 deep frames and 40-50 medium frames. I started this year with 10 drawn deep frames and had four colonies in mid-March.

The explosiveness of some of these bees is impressive. I have colonies at winter weight with over 10 frames of brood and the goldenrod is just starting to crack open... Wild.


----------



## DrJeseuss (May 28, 2015)

Planning to split and recombine, or are you wanting to keep both halves?


----------



## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

biggraham610 said:


> Yep, I'm figuring I might be dealing with some of the same this weekend. Weird summer. Built more nucs. G


Weird summer is a good way to put it. No dearth here at all this year. Last year around this time was slim pickings. But I am still new and still getting used to things here. The flow is a bit later than I thought it was. We were sooooo wet in June and it's dried up a bit now, but having some rain shots on occasion. I never imagined needing this many boxes and frames this year. It's crazy. Of course I didn't expect to be at 14 or 15 colonies (I haven't counted recently), either. Some timely feeding and my bees have drawn well over 120 deep frames and 40-50 medium frames. I started this year with 10 drawn deep frames and had four colonies in mid-March.

The explosiveness of some of these bees is impressive. I have colonies at winter weight with over 10 frames of brood and the goldenrod is just starting to crack open... Wild.


----------

