# Can it be fast tracked?



## Terry C (Sep 6, 2013)

I'm still pretty green myself - it's only my 2nd winter with bees - but I've read here many times that one can either make more bees or make honey . Last summer I went from 1 hive to 4 , and could probably have harvested a little honey , but I left it for the girls . I think this places me in a good position to make honey next summer . I think in my situation and probably yours too that aggressive anti-swarm techniques will be needed . I do plan a modest increase next summer , but am seriously considering using purchased queens . AR Beekeeper lives close by and has some BWeaver stock ...


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

We made nucs after the nectar flow was over. If all you have is a late spring flow, that's probably workable, and that's central east coast US. But what's your pattern in Ontario? Crazy-productive sub-arctic summer and then a long winter? 

Be careful with promises. The bees do most of the work and they are not worried about your business deals. I keep trying to tell mine what I expect them to do and its as if they are not listening _*at all*_.


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## DirtyLittleSecret (Sep 10, 2014)

Sounds like you may be buying from others to fill orders. Me, I'm stock piling inventory the first production year before I decide what to do.


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## Riskybizz (Mar 12, 2010)

Jack

Having orders to fill in your second year of keeping bees is not realistic. We typically extract 5,000-6,000 lbs. on an average year. Last year the bees produced less than half of that. You can crunch my numbers and put your operation in perspective. My advice would be to concentrate on becoming a knowledgeable beekeeper, and that I'm afraid will come with years of experience. Unless your currently working with another very knowledgeable beekeeper you'll be left to your own trial and error. Keep in mind that bad advice is also everywhere. You'll do fine but you'll have to put in your dues like everyone else. Honey producing is the end result of healthy colonies and timely management. Good luck.


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

Riskybizz said:


> Jack
> 
> Having orders to fill in your second year of keeping bees is not realistic. We typically extract 5,000-6,000 lbs. on an average year. Last year the bees produced less than half of that. You can crunch my numbers and put your operation in perspective. My advice would be to concentrate on becoming a knowledgeable beekeeper, and that I'm afraid will come with years of experience. Unless your currently working with another very knowledgeable beekeeper you'll be left to your own trial and error. Keep in mind that bad advice is also everywhere. You'll do fine but you'll have to put in your dues like everyone else. Honey producing is the end result of healthy colonies and timely management. Good luck.


Excellent advice.

I suggest that you not focus too much on filling orders for the first 3 years. Sell surplus when it comes, but really focus on improving your knowledge and skills as a beekeeper. Build your numbers as your skills permit. Learn to manage pests, identify diseases, make queens, and optimize your production (bees and honey). This all takes time. Sure offset costs, but don't get wrapped up in big sales until you're ready.


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## kaizen (Mar 20, 2015)

Jack I think you'll see some honey from the double deep hives you have IF they make it through the winter. I'm assuming your "orders" are the handful of people that you know that want some. I believe in your area you have one long flow all summer but I'm not sure if you have a big one to start it off like we do down here. As a second year I'd keep three of your best and add supers then harvest those supers. The rest of the hives make splits and queens. buying nucs or packages is too expensive if you want to expand. spend the winter figuring out how you want to propagate what you have. as an example I bought a nuc june2015. by july it was busting at the seams. I split it and then they made a ton of queen cells which I then took and made nucs. so from one hive you can easily get a lot of nucs. be prepared to feed them. then your third year you'll be racing to catch up with all of them.


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## fieldsofnaturalhoney (Feb 29, 2012)

JackandPam'sPlace said:


> I have orders for honey next year and can't fill them. I have two more nucs ordered and a queen from another woman here but short of buying someone's Apiary is there a way to fast track production and be able to fill orders


Sure, by honey in barrels from who knows where or what practices the beekeepers have, and sell it as your own A dishonest practice I wouldn't recommend, but you asked


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## DirtyLittleSecret (Sep 10, 2014)

Seems like a standard business practice. I dont know of a single large honey dealer/shop that sells only their own around here (and Ive been inquiring). Many are openly contracting. Everybody wants cheap/fast honey. Heck, Ive got two distributors hounding me right now wanting prices that wouldnt even pay for sugar let alone the time/work involved. Unless you want to feed the bees cocaine and HFCS you gotta let the girls do the work. Or, move overseas and make "funny honey".


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

Small producers need to SELL their honey. By "sell" I mean you have to convince people that you are providing a unique product. 
Local Honey...is unique and deserves a higher price than what your customers will pay at a supermarket. 

It's not hard. There are people who are very interested in the health aspects of eating raw, local honey. MANY OF THEM! 
I'm in the 20+ hive range. Sold all my honey by putting signs in the bee yard next to an empty bee hive. People get it.

Of course I get calls from people wanting bulk price on a quart of honey. I just save their numbers and when the inferior fall type honey is in my extractor...I call them. They will NOT get local spring white clover honey for cheap from this guy. NOT HAPPENIN'


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## tech.35058 (Jul 29, 2013)

fieldsofnaturalhoney said:


> Sure, by honey in barrels from who knows where or what practices the beekeepers have, and sell it as your own A dishonest practice I wouldn't recommend, but you asked


Its not dishonest if you are honest about it. I harvested no honey last summer, but "owed honey" as land rent, so I bought some from a neighbor & "paid my rent". I was careful to leave his label on the jar.


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## AJ Farms (Nov 22, 2011)

Pretty much the way it goes for us here. Make honey or make bees. Not enough time in our warm seasons for focusing on both. If you have honey orders you can't fill you'll have to buy it from someone else. Most keepers around here do it. Big or small we all run short from time to time nothing we can do we are at the mercy of a ton of variables.


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

This is somewhat "out of the box" thinking but to fast-track your bees and get more honey I'd try buying drawn combs. It's risky but what about keeping bees is not risky? I'm a risk taker and it's been paying off for me so far. It'll bite me one day but if I was desparate to produce honey...drawn combs is where I'd start.


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

JackandPam'sPlace said:


> I have two more nucs ordered and a queen from another woman here but short of buying someone's Apiary is there a way to fast track production and be able to fill orders? The complete hive I purchased that was used to propagate yielded no honey this year so perhaps that wasn't a good idea. Any suggestions would be appreciated.


find some other Canadian beeks on beesource, Ian for instance is in Manitoba, read there posts and get an Idea of what will work in your area. If you want to expand and produce honey it can be done.


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## AJ Farms (Nov 22, 2011)

Ontario is a lot different than Manitoba. Just like my area is a lot different than napanee. Join your local bee club and start there.


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## PeterP (Feb 5, 2014)

AJ is right on the money. 

To maximize honey production you need good forage. Weather you can't control. If you have your yard on some of that juniper scrub/rock or in a pine forest you will not get maximum honey. Best forage is an old dairy farm going back to nature that borders a creek or stream.

Drawn comb is the beekeepers best asset. I bought 10 used medium honey supers with drawn comb when I started with 2 hives. It was the smartest thing I did without knowing I was being smart. If you have good forage you should have 3 honey supers per hive. I pull honey 3 times a year and always keep a fresh super next to the brood nest. 

When to put on supers depends on your flow and how strong the hives are. 6 weeks before the spring flow (pussy willow/dandelion?) feed pollen sub and a light syrup to encourage brooding. June 1st is typically the start of the main flow and it will go until September goldenrod. I super before June 1st because my bees are sitting on 5 acres of raspberries. Plus with the stimulative feeding and if they are getting strong they may need the space to discourage swarming. 

If you are expanding you can pull some brood in early May to make up some splits. Buy mated queens and you will get a box of late season honey. But it may set back your production hive. You have to strike a balance between strong splits or strong hives and swarm controls.

Regards Peter


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## Colino (May 28, 2013)

aunt betty said:


> This is somewhat "out of the box" thinking but to fast-track your bees and get more honey I'd try buying drawn combs. It's risky but what about keeping bees is not risky? I'm a risk taker and it's been paying off for me so far. It'll bite me one day but if I was desparate to produce honey...drawn combs is where I'd start.


Exactly what I was going to post, if you give them drawn comb and do some splits you will get honey and bees. The only thing I would disagree with is it's not out of the box thinking, that's how it's done.


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## fieldsofnaturalhoney (Feb 29, 2012)

aunt betty said:


> This is somewhat "out of the box" thinking but to fast-track your bees and get more honey I'd try buying drawn combs. It's risky but what about keeping bees is not risky? I'm a risk taker and it's been paying off for me so far. It'll bite me one day but if I was desparate to produce honey...drawn combs is where I'd start.


My emphasis would be on the risky part. If you take this route, try to know as much as you can about the purchased drawn comb. There has to bee a reason why it's for sale, & the history of the bees that drew it? As well as the condition of the comb?


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## fieldsofnaturalhoney (Feb 29, 2012)

Wait a minute:scratch: How much do you think ten deep frames of drawn comb (less than two years old) can fetch?


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## Colino (May 28, 2013)

fieldsofnaturalhoney said:


> What a minute:scratch: How much do you think ten deep frames of drawn comb (less than two years old) can fetch?


I was paying $4.50 per comb.


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