# multiple eggs in queen cell



## [email protected] (May 25, 2018)

Hey everyone,

During my hive check this morning I found something really curious. I've got a newly mated queen who seems to be laying in a pretty healthy pattern. There's about 10% with two eggs in it (somewhat normal for new queens as I understand), but the vast majority seems to be one egg on the bottom of each cell. Then, on a different frame from all the other eggs and brood, there are four queen cells with a BUNCH of eggs in them each. What's going on?

Thanks for any help you're able to offer.


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

I can say welcome but not much more than rookie mistakes for an explanation. Re-queened old hive or new package?

Nice detail close up but can't get a background of where on the frame it is it is so close. Drone cell ?


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## [email protected] (May 25, 2018)

They were a package, but the queen they came with never got out of her box (rejected or starved, not sure). This queen was a grafted in cell that seems to have hatched, mated, and is now laying although I haven't been able to find her.... Here's the furthest back picture I took of it.






. THANKS!


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

"This queen was a grafted in cell "

If by this you mean they raised a queen from a donor hive I think it is just a new queen. There also may be some LWs active but they will go away on their own.

Sit back and wait.


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## COEngineer (Apr 30, 2018)

Great picture, thanks for sharing! I have never even heard of this behavior, much less seen such a sharp image of it.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

My thread from last spring.

http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...ake-of-finding-this-in-an-overwintered-colony

Unfortunately the image hosting website is foolish and cut the service. I could probably find the pics if I looked hard enough. Similar to your pics, but probably not quite so many eggs.


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

thanks jw,

Will be curious if this story ends with a pinched head in a month too.


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## MimbresBees (Sep 22, 2016)

maybe laying workers, no queen does that maybe 2 3, but not 10-20 eggs in a cup 
from this tiny glimpse into the hive, there needs to be more info with more pics to compare and assess. 
what about the rest of the cells, do they have multiple eggs in them also, def not enough info to give a correct response.


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## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

MimbresBees said:


> maybe laying workers...


With the picture of that cell, I'd guess laying workers. I've seen as many as three eggs in one cell as a new queen began to lay, but not that many. How long ago did the queen die in her cage?

Can you post a picture of any capped brood in that hive? If no capped brood, wait to see the caps to know whether you have worker or drone brood (queens lay fertilized eggs and drones lay unfertilized eggs & the cappings are different). When you see capped cells, you will know whether a queen or worker is laying the eggs. 

You _could_ have laying workers _and_ a queen. If four weeks have passed since they were separated from a queen and brood, you could have laying workers. If you have both laying workers and a queen, the laying workers should revert to their normal hive duties after about a week of pheromone exposure. The queen's pheromones, acting with worker brood pheromones, will inhibit further development of worker's ovaries. HTH


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Lburou said:


> With the picture of that cell, I'd guess laying workers. I've seen as many as three eggs in one cell as a new queen began to lay, but not that many. How long ago did the queen die in her cage?
> 
> Can you post a picture of any capped brood in that hive? If no capped brood, wait to see the caps to know whether you have worker or drone brood (queens lay fertilized eggs and drones lay unfertilized eggs & the cappings are different). When you see capped cells, you will know whether a queen or worker is laying the eggs.
> 
> You _could_ have laying workers _and_ a queen. If four weeks have passed since they were separated from a queen and brood, you could have laying workers. If you have both laying workers and a queen, the laying workers should revert to their normal hive duties after about a week of pheromone exposure. The queen's pheromones, acting with worker brood pheromones, will inhibit further development of worker's ovaries. HTH


I expect lburou will be back to edit his keystroke _faux pas_ about the drones  I had an experience where a queen was laying more than half her eggs unfertilized and turning into drones in worker sized cells. Not laying workers yet at that stage. Weird!

I presently have one colony that apparently lost its queen who may have started laying quite a few drones a few weeks ago when she should not have been doing with population dropping. I have been adding brood frames from other hives to prevent laying workers developing. However they do not start cells on them. I should have started cells from another colony to give them next week

Occasionally the bees seem to do things that do not follow the rule book and really makes you scratch your head about what is motivating their actions.

I


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## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

crofter said:


> I expect lburou will be back to edit his keystroke _faux pas_ about the drones


 Thanks for pointing that out crofter! :doh:


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Laying workers laid those eggs. I've seen it many times in a queenless mating nuc.
http://www.bushfarms.com/huber.htm#fertileworkersqueencells


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

Yep, I agree, laying workers do exactly that. If you haven't found a queen, I'm betting whatever brood you're seeing will be drones as well. Some Laying worker are very subtle, they will lay mostly single eggs in cells, but you will catch a few doubles here and there. The first thing you need to do is find the queen though if there is one and verify. If you can't find a queen, well, you know the answer then.


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## [email protected] (May 25, 2018)

Sorry MimbresBees, here's from the original post: "I've got a newly mated queen who seems to be laying in a pretty healthy pattern. There's about 10% with two eggs in it (somewhat normal for new queens as I understand), but the vast majority seems to be one egg on the bottom of each cell. " I think that answers some of your questions but, being new to beekeeping, I don't know what else to even convey in order to give you more information. What should I take pictures of?


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## [email protected] (May 25, 2018)

Thanks everyone for the info- I'll definitely make sure to watch for high drone brood and try to take pictures of the broader hive when I'm out next. Here's all the information I can give you: The hive came on April 14th and on April 25th we discovered the dead queen. On May 1st a queen cell was grafted in to the hive from a donor hive, and we left the hive alone to do it's thing for a while. On May 21st we opened it back up, saw some eggs on 2 different frames, all seemingly in a healthy laying pattern and on frames that I would expect to find eggs. On May 25th I checked again, this time doing a more thorough inspection. The hive seemed VERY calm, much calmer than when they were queenless (which makes me think there is a queen in there) and the laying pattern seemed to my eye to be healthy, and on 3 frames. About 10% of the cells had two eggs in them, but never more. On a frame next to the three frames with brood I found these queen cups pictured.


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

Glad you followed up. 

On the 24 you had multiple frames with eggs so by now you have capped brood or will shortly. The shape of the capped brood is the the classic tell. That photo is a real easy shot, nothing like the inside of a cell. It is the shape of the dome you are after so at a slight angle.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Once you have open brood, it will set back the laying workers. They will pretty much be completely back to normal in three weeks.


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## [email protected] (May 25, 2018)

Hey everyone, thanks again for all of your help. It does appear that I've got a lot of drone cells... right?









I also noticed this time around that the single eggs in the cells, while on the bottom, seem to be off to the side of center. 









Now I've got a hive that hasn't had any fresh workers in a long while, is queenless, has laying workers, and has dwindling numbers. Time for some emergency interventions!


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Speaking as someone who's played the "let me fix this" game. It isn't worth it unless it is your only colony. Make a split out of a healthy colony and you'll be time and effort ahead. I move any laying worker colonies that I have somewhere else in the yard and let them trickle out of that hive and then return to a different colony. I don't shake them out until there's hardly any left. Then scrape all the drone brood that's capped and put those frames into strong healthy colonies for them to clean them out.


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## DeepCreek (Jan 23, 2015)

I put a laying worker hive directly on top of a STRONG hive. They'll get rid of the laying workers in short order. Then you can separate the hives, re-queen or make sure they have some eggs to raise one.


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## Lburou (May 13, 2012)

Do you have other hives to use as resources to save these bees? I would tend to shake the bees out in front of another hive and remove the empty hive and splist once things are settled. Of course, in my location in North Central Texas, we are past the prime time for a hive to grow and be ready for a short honey flow...that means no extra honey this year if you split the hive now.


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## Saltybee (Feb 9, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Now I've got a hive that hasn't had any fresh workers in a long while, is queenless, has laying workers, and has dwindling numbers. Time for some emergency interventions!


I should have asked more questions about "grafted". If by grafted you meant open brood rather than a ripe QC then the math for eggs on the 25th was not there. Other than bees from a donor frame ( if that is what you did) you mostly have a failed month old package. 
If you have a mostly full deep single as a donor and are down to a couple of sparse frames of bees in the LW then just put it on top and be done with it. I like to put the brood frames on the outside to break them up as moved but that is just me.


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