# Dying Bees



## Genemiller (Jul 21, 2013)

I just had an inspection 2 weeks ago and everything was great. Yesterday we had a cold snap, 60 , and I noticed lots of dead bees. At first I thought they were ejecting drones but it looks like about a third of the colony. They walk out kind of drunk and fall off the edge. Here are a couple of videos that might help.

http://youtu.be/XwUrAnJTgC0

http://youtu.be/bgtSU0SP2UM

Gene


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

sorry to see that gene. is it possible that they could have gotten into some poison?


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

Are you feeding something at the entrance? That one bee that falls dow in the first vid looks like a robber coming in to check it out that got zapped by the guards, maybe some robbing attempts?


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## bob-bee (Nov 29, 2013)

Can anyone help me save my bees? They are acting similar to the video posted. 
It had been raining heavily in the desert for about four days. 
It has been dry for about four days. I saw some odd behavior when the rain stopped. 
They were on the grass apparently drinking.
They usually drink from the fountain in the front yard.
It is starting to get cold for the winter. 
The daytime temperature has been in the mid sixtys.
The early morning temperatures are in the mid fortys. 
I have a few pictures of the dead and dying. 
I cleaned the front porch and the next day there were a significant number of dead bees. 
I have been feeding them a freezer baggie of sugar water with one cc of spearmint oil every two weeks.
I opened the hive yesterday and they looked kind of OK.
They gave gotten a little mean in the fall. 
When I inspected the hive they were pretty docile.
Only one attacked my face shield with any enthusiasm.
There were lots of bees only a few dead.
I think they have run across some poison.
That is only a guess. 
I hope some one can help me to help them to help themselves.


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## matt1954 (Sep 8, 2010)

I would send samples to the bee lab in Beltsville, MD for analysis. Include some comb with and without pollen. Call them to inquire how they want it packaged. At first glance, to me anyway, this has the appearance of a pesticide kill. There could be other explanations, as well. Do you have other colonies? if so are the exhibiting similar behavior?


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## Genemiller (Jul 21, 2013)

JRG13 said:


> Are you feeding something at the entrance? That one bee that falls dow in the first vid looks like a robber coming in to check it out that got zapped by the guards, maybe some robbing attempts?


Definitely not robbing. That's a piece of burr comb I pulled of when inspecting. There are almost no bees coming and going. I laid it there to coax some outside. They did empty it. My hive is usually so full you can't see the frames and the inside lid is completely covered. Today there were no bees on the lid or the tops of the frames. The frame I pulled did have bees but half as many. Whatever it is its going on 2 days now. I hope my neighbor behind me didn't spray. 

Gene


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Could be one of the paralysis diseases.


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## tbonekel (May 3, 2013)

With me, it's very much the same. We have been having highs in the low 50's and low's around 30. I see 10 to 20 dead bees on the front porch. I have 5 hives. Very similar throughout.


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

Some of this is probably just summer bees dying off, but I never see anything like that.

I would NEVER put anything attractive to bees on the landing board, you definitely had some robbing going on, there were two bees attempting to kill each other in the first video. Bees are very greedy, and especially when the weather cools down and the forage goes away anything that smells like open honey will draw bees from every hive around. I won't even leave things on the top of the inner cover with the vent notch exposed, "foreign" bees can find that, too. 

I would also not use a whole cc of spearmint oil in a baggie, more like a drop in a gallon (at most), it's powerful stuff and as the temperature drops it will stay in the hive longer.

Once you get to clustering temps, the bees will take up much less room than when it's warm

I check the weight of my hive by attempting to lift it at the rear. If light, I feed heavily with a hive-top feeder in September or early October here. In Texas, depending on the weather, you could probably feed later, but I would still get a hivetop feeder or feed gallon baggies continuously until the hive is up to weight and then stop. Once they have adequate stores for winter I believe they are better off left alone with the hive closed. This is very important if you have sudden cold snaps with high winds -- they seal the hive up nicely and you are going to cause air infiltration problems every time you open it up by breaking the propolis seal between boxes an covers, and they cannot re-seal it now, it's too cold to move propolis. 

I know it's tempting to look inside and see what's going on all the time, but the bees are better off if you get them ready before cold weather and leave them alone for the winter.

Peter


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## nater37 (Aug 15, 2013)

I had the same thing going on here. I even lost my queen. I had been feeding sugar water and thought moisture killed them but they are acting same way.


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## disc999golfer999 (Jun 9, 2013)

I had the same thing happen and I found some answers.:
In my case it was probably because the first cold snap the mite infected and sick bees leave the hive to die.
So it seems like the same thing is happening to your hive.


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## disc999golfer999 (Jun 9, 2013)

Here is the link to my post:
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?291252-Over-Wintering-Bees
I a off to get Oxcalic Acid to treat for mites as I have not treated for that before, or done any mite treatment.
Also if you can explain your mite treatment that you have done previously?


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## Rusty Hills Farm (Mar 24, 2010)

bob-bee said:


> I have been feeding them a freezer baggie of sugar water with one cc of spearmint oil every two weeks.


Bob-bee, oil and water do not mix without something to emulsify them. You can use a chemical emulsifier or emulsify with a blender run on high for about 5 minutes. Without the emulsification, the oil can collect in droplets instead of disbursing evenly throughout your syrup and that concentration is too much for bees to handle. It can be fatal. I have no idea if there is enough oil in your sugar syrup to be fatal to as many bees as you seem to have dying, but it is something to consider.

HTH

Rusty


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## Bees In Miami (Nov 30, 2012)

Gene...I would not completely rule out robbing. I lost a hive to robbing last week, and it looked very, very similar once the damage was done. One thing I feel confident saying is that a die off like that was not a result of our little cool snap. As others have said, gather some of those bees into a baggie and put them in the freezer until you can get specifics to get them to a testing facility. That's the only way to rule out pesticides. 

Sorry to see such a mess! I was pretty crushed, too. Do you still have viable population in the hive? You will need to spot your queen ASAP, or look for queen cells. We still have some drones flying. There are also a couple of queen breeders down here that have queens year round. Good luck!


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## bob-bee (Nov 29, 2013)

Hello,

I was told by my girlfriend that the oil was not 1 cc. She did the mixing. It was more than a few drops but not 1 cc. I will blend the oil next time. Thanks for the tip Rusty. The death rate seems to have subsided a little today. I found maybe 40 dead bees instead of a hundred. It was sunny 65 with no wind and I saw them flying again. There was some raiding for about an hour then the raiders went away. The hive went pretty quiet after that. I put in a data logger yesterday to see if they were keeping temp. It looks cold to me. Between 80F and 75 F. Shouldn't. it be in the ninety's? The probe placement is about 2 inches from the top board in the center of the frames. I decided to check for mites a few days ago. I had no mite board in place. I checked it today, there were no mites. Just a little pollen. Surprisingly no bee parts. The colony is about 10 months old so I don't think it has mite problems in the first year. It looks a little better today. There are still bees on the porch staggering around buzzing and falling to the ground. I hope this passes soon.
View attachment bees20131130.pdf


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## Genemiller (Jul 21, 2013)

The main Reason I ruled out robbing was because there are no bees coming to the hive. The only bees that touched the comb at the door came from the inside. The bees come out from the inside and stumble around and then fall off the porch. I know it wasn't the cold snap and I don't smell any pesticides sprayed by a neighbor. Today I saw recently hatched bees being pulled out. I'm guessing that's not pesticide. I can send some in to get them checked. Anybody know where? 



Gene


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## disc999golfer999 (Jun 9, 2013)

Did you do a mite count check? There are a couple easy methods. The sugar shake seems pretty quick.


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## disc999golfer999 (Jun 9, 2013)

What state are you in? Near me is:

Attention Entomology Inspections
Oregon State University
Corvallis, OR 97331-7304
Office: (541) 737-3695
Fax: (541) 737-3479

Plus you can do some inspections yourself.

The national lab:
MAILING ADDRESS
Send all samples to:

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE
Bee Disease Diagnosis
Bee Research Laboratory
Building 476, BARC-E
Beltsville, Maryland 20705


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## Genemiller (Jul 21, 2013)

disc999golfer999 said:


> Here is the link to my post:
> http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?291252-Over-Wintering-Bees
> I a off to get Oxcalic Acid to treat for mites as I have not treated for that before, or done any mite treatment.
> Also if you can explain your mite treatment that you have done previously?


My hive currently looks like your first picture, before you couldn't see the frames at all and the top was even completely covered. I haven't checked or treated for anything. I think they are better of without intervention. It's probably controversial but from previous experience in other areas of my life I find your better off with less involvement. Nature can solve its own problems usually.
I did speak to the inspector today. Her supervisor said its robbing, and then the bees will pull out larva because there is not enough pollen to feed the remaining bees. I only pulled one frame and it was full of brood and honey. I didn't know to look for pollen. I still say there is no robbing . There were no bees coming or going until I placed the small comb to get some outside. All the bees came from the inside that were on it. I watched for a long time and never saw any fighting. The 2 bees in the first video came from inside that seemed to be fighting. I saw a few bees like that but no bees were coming and going and there isn't any missing honey.
They always came from the inside. I watched this morning and no bees were outside waiting. When activity did start it was bees stumbling out dying along with a lot of larva. Saturday will be my first day to look inside and I will look carefully and take pictures. I reduced back to 1 deep

Gene


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## Genemiller (Jul 21, 2013)

I did put the robbing screen on just in case. It's gonna be a job to get all the dead carcasses out but I guess they will. 

Gene


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I would makes sure they are not starving. Check the weight of the hive and look for stores. Starving bees are very lethargic. If not, as Mr. Palmer says, it could be a virus.


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## disc999golfer999 (Jun 9, 2013)

Michael Bush said:


> I would makes sure they are not starving. Check the weight of the hive and look for stores. Starving bees are very lethargic. If not, as Mr. Palmer says, it could be a virus.


That is what was happening to my hive in part. When I went to move the hive I was suprised that I could pick it up easily. During summer and spring when I bought the hive It was significantly heavier. 
Plus I get very lethargic if I haven't eaten so I can see why the bees would act that way.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

If they are starving and it's cold I would give them some moist sugar on some newspaper over their heads. or feeder that is in contact (such as a bucket or jar with holes) with warm syrup. If it's warmer, I would spray a small amount of syrup on them and when they start to perk up put a feeder on.


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## Genemiller (Jul 21, 2013)

Michael Bush said:


> If they are starving and it's cold I would give them some moist sugar on some newspaper over their heads. or feeder that is in contact (such as a bucket or jar with holes) with warm syrup. If it's warmer, I would spray a small amount of syrup on them and when they start to perk up put a feeder on.


There is plenty of food here its in the 70's most days. There is honey in the hive at last look which was just this past Saturday. I'm a little confused. I was told by the inspector they need pollen to eat not honey. Most people feed sugar water. I'm missing something. Please someone explain. I have a large jar of pollen I got from A local supplier. I could put inside for them
I really don't think it's a food issue but maybe I don't understand what they eat.

Gene


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## Genemiller (Jul 21, 2013)

I went into the hive this morning and there is both nectar and capped honey. The bees seem normal except less of them. I did go ahead and put a piece of burr come I had saved for my self that had honey under the lid. I also put the pollen in a lid. Everything is under the top and the robbing screen is on. If robbing was attempted it failed. There is still a lot of brood in the 2 outer frames I pulled. I noticed a lot of drones stuck on the outside.

Gene


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## Bees In Miami (Nov 30, 2012)

Gene...No way to know what killed your bees last week, let's just assume it was a pesticide kill, and you dodged a bullet by not losing the entire colony. If I didn't see all the dead bees on the ground in your video, I would say they swarmed, but we know otherwise. Also, don't be so quick to blame your neighbor. Bees forage miles from the hive. No way to know where they picked it up. You do not need to be feeding your bees...I think the starvation reference was intended for the other poster in WA. Are your bees foraging? You should be seeing pollen being brought in by your foragers.


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## Genemiller (Jul 21, 2013)

Bees In Miami said:


> Gene...No way to know what killed your bees last week, let's just assume it was a pesticide kill, and you dodged a bullet by not losing the entire colony. If I didn't see all the dead bees on the ground in your video, I would say they swarmed, but we know otherwise. Also, don't be so quick to blame your neighbor. Bees forage miles from the hive. No way to know where they picked it up. You do not need to be feeding your bees...I think the starvation reference was intended for the other poster in WA. Are your bees foraging? You should be seeing pollen being brought in by your foragers.


It's dark when I get home and I leave early but I did see a couple this morning coming in with pollen. There is a weed that's in everybody's yard that covers the lawns here. It's a little purple flower and the bees love it. It's everywhere including the local golf course. It's so low to the ground lawn mowers don't touch it. I already ruled out pesticide from a neighbor. I'm working on just common sense, no experience, so dangerous.
They have plenty of food and they seem fine. Here is whats changed. They are very docile. No smoke and they just don't care. Lots of dead bees and they aren't going out like before. I had a solid flow of bees now just a few. Maybe the queen died. Saturday I will go in and look at every frame and take pictures if weather permits..

Gene


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## Bees In Miami (Nov 30, 2012)

Gene....Is this what you are seeing for blooms? Mexican clover?
https://www.google.com/search?q=mex...ASP-ICQDA&sqi=2&ved=0CCwQsAQ&biw=1366&bih=658

It is in full force here, too, and yes, the bees go crazy for it! Since our Meleluca flow went bust with the rains, enjoy all that wildflower as you drive down the road! 

Our Inspector was at my bee yard today, and we talked about your situation. She remembered speaking with you. I reported to her that you had updated your posts, and that the bees indeed had stores, so that starvation was not the problem. Sending you a PM with a few more updates. 

If this helps, queen-less hives usually get nasty....pissy...disorderly. Not docile. Pure speculation on my part, but I am wondering if your foragers got into some 'bad stuff', and died, and now your new/nurse bees need to mature some before strong foraging??? I will also add, since the cooler weather kicked in, any bearding I saw here, too, is gone. While still foraging heavily, hive fronts do not look like they did a month ago. You definitely lost a significant population, but they can still rebound. 

Check your PM's...call if you still have my # if you want. Good luck!


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## Genemiller (Jul 21, 2013)

Yes that is the flower and there is plenty. Bees are coming in with bright orange pollen although the activity of coming and going is very slow. I checked mid day today and the mass die off seems to be over. They are ejecting drone and still pulling some young larva. I did not see any orientation flights. Saturday I will pull every frame and get pictures so I can get a better idea of whats going on. Or I guess so I can post pictures and y'all can help me get a better idea. After the inspection I can powder sugar dust them but should I. I don't want to stress them more

Gene


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