# Brown brood/dead bees



## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Do they have any honey?


----------



## Jayfer12 (Mar 8, 2018)

Super above is empty. I believe they have some heavy frames of nectar in the deeps


----------



## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

I didn't see any honey in the photos.
Starving bees will die in large numbers and neglect the brood.


----------



## Jayfer12 (Mar 8, 2018)

There is definitely at least few frames of uncapped nectar but I'll try and feed. I have a hive beside it that is thriving so it's not a lack of available forage. Do you see any signs of brood disease in the picture?


----------



## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Yes. The larvae are twisted and discoloured...efb.

Jean-Marc


----------



## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

I agree with Jean-Marc. 
What will you do going forward to confirm it's EFB and
what course of action will you take to correct the issue?


----------



## jean-marc (Jan 13, 2005)

Jayfer12:

What do you think that it is, that yu hpe it is not?

If bees get poisoned and lose population, then larvae can starve from lack of incoming food. They become susceptible to efb from lack of nutrition, EFB is always around and is just waiting for such an opportunity. Then the larvae get sick from the bacteria. Adults then get sick from cleaning out dead larvae, and a vicious downward cycle sets in.

I am not sure if the bees were shooed away, but there are none covering the larvae. It is no surprise they got sick. Nobody was there to feed them. Remove the sick frames, feed the colony, and hope for a honeyflow. If you are ever going to use antibotic now would be a good time. You might be able to save the bees and risk contaminating the limited potential crop. You decide.

Jean-Marc

Jean-Marc

Jean-Marc


----------



## Jayfer12 (Mar 8, 2018)

Yes, I was scared it was EFB after doing some research. This was a weak package I purchased and then requeened. The bottom deep was filling with bees and brood well after requeening so I added a second deep. I began noticing less activity and dead bees, upon inspection this week I noticed less bees and the warped brood. Would you recommend moving my strong hive away from the infected one?


----------



## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

Looks like EFB to me, too.

Bee supply houses sell quick and accurate field lab tests. About $13/ test, buy a couple in case you mess up the first one.

Immediately make sure that that sick hive cannot get robbed out. Put an effective robbing screen on it.

Do not use the same hive or gloves in both colonies. Or if you need to, sanitize the hive tool between colonies.

Don't move and frames or boxes or equipment from the sick hive into the healthy one.

If you can get a prescription from a veterinarian, you can treat the hive with Oxytet. I'd treat all colonies in your yard at the same time, whether or not they show signs of illness. This will probably put paid to your honey collection for the year, at least as far as human consumption. Honey is fine for the bees, however.

Another non-treatment fix (works even better in combination with treatment, as well) is to shake the remaining bees on to undrawn foundation in new boxes. Then sanitize the boxes and combs with gamma radiation. You need 15 KGrays of radiation.

I had EFB in half of my colonies last summer. I treated and practiced very careful sanitation as well as moving them out of most of the contaminated boxes and frames. (But not entirely, I couldn't afford that.) None of the apparently healthy ones at the time of diagnosis got sick. None of the apparently healthy ones died over the winter. Two-thirds of the confirmed cases survived as well, and they are all looking just fine, and booming again this spring.

As Jean-Marc says, it's an opportunistic disease when conditions, especially forage or nutritional conditions are bad. If the bees need nectar, and especially pollen then they need supplementation.

It is not AFB, and there is no need to burn the hive. Sanitation this summer to avoid its spread, and replacement of equipment are important, but the most effective choice is also treating with Oxytet. For that you need a vet.

Good luck!

Nancy


----------



## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

Lots of packages get EFB within five weeks after install, shaken from infected bees.

Send a sample to the lab, it's free and the only way to be 100% sure (link below), test sticks are not as accurate, Pictures of confirmed EFB for comparison;

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?345991-varroa-virus&p=1639811#post1639811


----------



## roberto487 (Sep 22, 2012)

If you are in a lake community or a development, this could be your bees are taking treated/poisoned water or nectar to the hive. The dosage is low enough for the adult bees to survive it, but not for the larva. Looked up pictures of dead broods due to poisoning. They turn brown.


----------



## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

I think I saw mites in picture 1 & 3 half way up.

Alex


----------



## Jayfer12 (Mar 8, 2018)

Not sure what it was. This was a sickly looking package to begin with. Two weeks after install the queen was M.I.A. Only took the package because I felt bad for the beekeeper (van full of packages with dead bees). I took the best one I could find. Lesson learned on that one. I requeened and a few weeks later I had this issue. By the time I took action I was down to about a nuc of bees. I didn't buy a test kit because I wasn't willing to spend another dollar on this package. I stored all the equipment they were in and shook bees into a nuc, gave a frame of capped brood from my healthy hive, let them draw some wax for a couple days and then fed. So far all brood is healthy and bees are drawing well. Not having any issues with thriving neighboring hive.


----------



## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

A van full of packages with dead bees = overheated bees, a serious and fatal stressor. 
Significant heat stress does in the queens ability to lay eggs and severely tests the health of the surviving bees
making them susceptible to disease.

Seems this part of the story (van full of dead bees) should have been told in post #1


----------



## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

Well, you got lucky and the colony likely caught a break and worked its way out of EFB, if that's what you had.

I know you don't want to spend another buck on this colony, but how about spending the cost of sending a frame away to Beltsville for testing? Don't think of it as an investment in this particular colony, but an investment in knowing whether the equipment and, especially the frames you now have in storage, are safe to use for future bees.

EFB persists on equipment - not as long as AFB, which can be contaminated for many decades - but long enough that if next spring you put healthy bees on the frames these bees were sick on, that new colony could get EFB. If you share out those frames among several colonies, you'll multiply the problem many times over.

You might still be able to test the frames with a field kit, but the field tests are best done with gooey recently-dead larvae. Beltsville will be able to find evidence on the comb. (Choose the skankiest one with the most remains of larvae on it for the testing. You won't get it back.) And that will tell you whether you have usable stuff in storage or if you need to get it irradiated before putting it back in service.

I am glad the colony turned around, and I hope it, and the nearby ones stay that way. But EFB can hang around for awhile so stay vigilant, especially next spring. 

Nancy


----------



## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

Packages that did not have the bacteria did not get EFB, all packages that were infected did get EFB 100% of the time. 

"*Transmission of European Foul Brood Disease by Package Bees*"
"In April 1964, 15 1-kg. packages of honeybees shaken from colonies infected with European foul brood and 15 1-kg. packages shaken from non-infected colonies were transported 1300 km. and installed in sterile equipment with new frames and foundation. All colonies derived from infected colonies developed E.F.B., whereas all those derived from non-infected colonies remained healthy. The disease did not appear until 5 weeks after packages were hived, and therapeutics given as soon as packages are installed should prevent build-up of infection to a level that causes disease."

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00218839.1965.11100101?journalCode=tjar20


----------

