# What Is Your Favorite Hive Wood Protectant?



## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

We started using Bear deck stain a few years ago, & haven't had to retreat any.
Tried thompsons clear on a few, very disappointed, It seams to need frequent re-coats.


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## gone2seed (Sep 18, 2011)

Latex paint.Leftovers from painting projects used as is or mixed together for some really weird colors.I think the different colors help the bees find their own hive.I even buy partial gallons at yard sales and flea markets
edited to add ...keep the colors on the light side of course.


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## Jaseemtp (Nov 29, 2010)

Thats good to hear Dan because I used their cedar fence / deck stain on my hives this year.


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## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

Oops or mismatch latex for working hives and marine spar polyurethane for show hives. Coatings have two responsibilities -- protection from moisture and ultraviolet. Paints have it easier with the most solids.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I've been wax dipping mine...

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesdipping.htm


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

kq6ar,,, I had never heard about Behr deck stain on bee hives, (We paint all of ours white, latex), so I googled Behr deck stain. The reviews are almost all negative. They talk about having to prepare and recoat each year. Most of them recommend Cabot over Behr. Of course they are talking about decks and fences, not bee hives. I think I will try a half dozen nucs with Behr and just see how they do. Might look good on some of those I made using cottonwood. cchoganjr


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## Live Oak (Oct 11, 2008)

Hi Cleo! Again many thanks for sending me the hive box hand hold jip plans yesterday. I purchased several gallons of Cabot white deck stain that Lowes had clearance priced at about $10 a gallon several months ago. It is REALLY expensive at about $38 a gallon normal price. 

I have not tried it yet but I am working on a assembling 30 medium honey supers that I plan to try it on. I will post my results when I do. As expensive as Cabot deck stain is, it will have to last a LONG time to be cost effective but at the sale price worth a try. Normally my hives get one coat of a good quality white latex prime and one coat of a good quality white gloss or semi-gloss latex outdoor paint. 

I also have switched over to using bald cypress as the wood for my hives which is VERY rot resitant and holds up a lot better and longer than pine.


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## paintingpreacher (Jul 29, 2006)

I like to use an oil base stain. Have some that are 5-6 years old and they look good. Others with latex paint are ready to be redone.


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## Riskybizz (Mar 12, 2010)

"Eco Wood Treatment", all organic, non-toxic, one application. I have been dipping all my woodenware. Best preservative I have ever used.


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## Cleo C. Hogan Jr (Feb 27, 2010)

Riskybizz...I googled, Eco Wood Treatment and read about it. At $19.95 for 2 ounces, (makes one gallon preserative) it should cost about $1.00 to $1.50 per deep super. Is this what you have found. 

cchoganjr


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## Riskybizz (Mar 12, 2010)

Cleo

At one time I did an analysis and compared it to the cost of painting, or staining etc. As I recall, the cost was less than paint by the gallon. I generally mix up the contents of 3 packages with 3 imperial gallons of water. Imperial gallons are larger than U.S gallons. I can dip 50-60 boxes (deeps or shallows) in a little over an hour. For me there lies the beauty of the product. My time and labor to paint that many boxes far exceeds the cost of Eco Wood Treatment. I have had boxes fully exposed for years that look like the day I treated them. As you probably read, the application is on one time application.


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## Mr. C (Oct 27, 2011)

I got tired of painting last year, and the Behr exterior paint I used last year was fairly expensive and didn't stick well (especially to old boxes despite cleaning and hitting them with a wire wheel). I built a tank to wax dip this Spring and invested in rosin and paraffin. If I hadn't done that I would have tried the marine grade polyurathane, I don't like covering up the wood, but it's just a personal appearence preference there.


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## Jaseemtp (Nov 29, 2010)

How expensive would it be to get the materials to do the wax dipping?


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

I've been using Cabots deck and siding stain. I got one gallon cheap and had to pay the full $ 38.00 for the second gallon. I've stained 24 deeps 11 supers 12 lids and 14 bottom boards with one can. All new boxes. The boxes each received 2 coats and the lids and bottom boards 3 coats. Still have 1/8 of a can left.The directions say to only use one coat!!! The second and third coat take about a week to dry.
Expensive? Not really if it works well the price is less than a dollar a box. Only time will tell, hopefully I can get set up to dip before I find out.


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## Mr. C (Oct 27, 2011)

Wax dipping has a pretty good sized upfront expensive unless your a master at salvaging and have a large surplus of bees wax around (neither of which I had). I had a steel tank built for the job because I wanted something heavy duty and deep (and able to dip multiple assembled boxes at once). I probably should have included a drain plug in retrospect, but oh well I'll figure it out. For the steel and welding I probably spent 200 bucks on the tank (1.4 inch bottom 1/8 inch sides, 1/16th for the telescoping lid and splash guard). It's 22x26 and 3feet deep so I can dip 3 deeps (one inside the other two) or probably 5 mediums at once. Also enough space for covers or bottoms etc. You can get by with much smaller if you do unassembled dipping, or 1 at a time etc. I already have a turkey fry burner and propane tank so free there. I think I have enoug brick around to brick it up and surround the burner etc. so also free there. Then there's the wax/rosin. I think with shipping a 55lb bag of rosin is in the $140 range when I bought it (though I probably need another because of the size of my tank). Wax is about $70 for 50lbs after shipping to my house. I already have 200lbs, but again my tank is oversized so i probably need some more wax as well which I'll be ordering soon. I think it will cost me about $1000 dollars when it's all said and done, but once set up the only thing I should have to buy is propane to run it each year. Dipping doesn't take much wax so refills are not common. It's expensive to set up, but in the long run I think someone calculated it takes about 10grams of wax per box so it should be cheaper in labor (one time dip hopefully) and per box cost. I just have to build enough boxes to justify it now... 50 down ???? to go.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>How expensive would it be to get the materials to do the wax dipping? 

It is a lot of up front work and cost to get set up. It would be nice if people could go together and get set up to do it and share the resources.


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## Mr. C (Oct 27, 2011)

Michael Bush;741998 It would be nice if people could go together and get set up to do it and share the resources.[/QUOTE said:


> That is what I should have done, but I'm a bit OCD and a controling about some things so I'd rather pay for it myself and set it up exactly how I want then take on others later. I realize it's not the best way to go about things, but I can live with it =).


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## Jaseemtp (Nov 29, 2010)

maybe I can get the folks from my bee club to pitch in and share the expens then


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

We have moved from Linseed oil to Soyguard. Works about the same, but cleans up with water.

Crazy Roland


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## MTINAZ (Jan 15, 2010)

My brother just used the eco wood treatment on a house and it looks good, but his is a very dark grey. If it holds up I think it would be way better than paint and easier than dipping. I got some pallets and tops made that were dipped and I really like them so far but have no long term experience.


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## Riskybizz (Mar 12, 2010)

MTINAZ

I really don't have any long term experience either, as I have only used it about 5 years. As far as ease of applicaton (cost) and clean-up I don't know of anything easier. As they say time will tell how well anything holds up. Naturally where you live, climate, sun exposure, moisture etc. etc., all play a role in determining how long any exposed woods will last to the elements. Feel free to contact me in 15 years and i'll let you know how my boxes still look, (but i'm in no big hurry to find out). Its been used for 60 years with good success in other applications.


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## MTINAZ (Jan 15, 2010)

How dark did they turn out?


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## Riskybizz (Mar 12, 2010)

I think the boxes in this yard are around 3 years old. Western pine.


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## MTINAZ (Jan 15, 2010)

That is not bad at all. I will have to use that on my next round of boxes.


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## Jaseemtp (Nov 29, 2010)

How are you applying the eco wood to your hives?


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## Riskybizz (Mar 12, 2010)

I simply mix up a few gallons at a time in a large plastic storage bin and dip the boxes, turning them around a couple times..about a minute a box.


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## New Ky Beekeeper (Jun 27, 2011)

Live Oak said:


> I also have switched over to using bald cypress as the wood for my hives which is VERY rot resitant and holds up a lot better and longer than pine.


Live Oak - If you read about Walter T. Kelley who founded Kelley Bees in Ky, he used cypress in the 1930's and love it. 

Phil


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## kincade (Feb 3, 2011)

*EDIT: see 3 posts down, I heard back from then and posted an MSDS. My concerns seem to be unfounded.*

For those of you that are using the Eco wood treatment, I'm wondering if the product comes with a list of ingredients or MSDS?

*EDIT, not the same product after all*

One footnote, this appears to be the same product from my research:

http://www.valhalco.com/

On here, there is an MSDS but it's only for less than 50% of the product which is useless:

http://www.loghelp.com/p-1627-lifetime-wood-treatment.aspx

I'd be curious if anyone has had experience with pure tung oil or milk paint?

http://www.realmilkpaint.com/oil.html

http://www.realmilkpaint.com/products.html


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## Beethinking (Jun 2, 2008)

Pure tung oil.


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## Riskybizz (Mar 12, 2010)

Tung Oil :Terrestrial Ecotoxicity 
Summary of Acute Toxicity for Organism Group 
Sorry, no honeybee acute toxicity data available for this chemical.


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## Beethinking (Jun 2, 2008)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tung_oil


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## kincade (Feb 3, 2011)

I've found zero evidence that tung oil is dangerous in any way other than to those with nut allergies. The biggest problem seems to be that it takes a few weeks to dry (100% tung oil) and may not last that long.

I've sent an email to realmilkpaint to inquire as to using this in a beehive but I did notice that their 'outdoor additive' does have borax in it (again, an insecticide when in ingestible form). They also have a video showing them mixing tung oil with the milk paint in an outdoor application so I'm curious as to what their response is. 

Lastly, I just heard back from Eco Wood Treatment. He called and assured me that there is no borax in their formula, and that it was mostly minerals and 100% non toxic. He sent an MSDS which I have attached. Very nice fellow, and my concerns seem to be unfounded.














He sent me this over email:

"Hi  here it is, its perfect for bees, gardeners supply kelly bees beepods.com Home Depot sherwin williams all have this or can order it in thanks best regards bruce"

And apparently lifetime is NOT the same company, there seems to be some legal action against them:

http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/eco-wood-treatment-ganges-british-columbia-c446166.html

I did read some complaints online about the lifetime not dissolving and having 'vegetable parts' in it, so the above link would seem to be somewhat accurate (and headache inducing).


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## Jaseemtp (Nov 29, 2010)

Does home depot carry the Eco Wood in the store or does it need to be ordered online?


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

No one uses copper napthanate and low odor mineral spirits anymore? I do for bottom boards and outer cover rims. The rest of the woodenware gets good primer and free salvaged paint from the recycling center.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

After watching the skep videos I have to vote for fresh cow dung. I have not seen another protective finish that even comes close in just shock value. My hives so far are getting painted with latex paint. But seriously has anyone ever tried Shellac? It is supposedly impervious to anything but Alcohol. It is a natural product but is diluted with Alcohol. once it is done it makes a food safe finish. eating it woudl be something like eating bees wax.


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## No-sage (Mar 14, 2009)

Daniel Y said:


> But seriously has anyone ever tried Shellac?
> 
> 
> > I've used shellac on outdoor wood projects (not bee boxes) and it doesn't hold up well. It does better if you wax on top of it, but then I think the wax would do just as well by itself.


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## kincade (Feb 3, 2011)

A bit more information on the eco wood treatment. When I asked him about whether it contains borax, this was his response:

"Hi no borax for sure just calcuim sufur oxygen iron ,wont harm the bees thanks best regards bruce"

Michael, you would certainly know more than I would about this, but I was under the impression that copper napthanate was harmful to the girls.


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## windfall (Dec 8, 2010)

Shellac is not meant as an exterior finish. It is great stuff for many many reasons in many applications. But it does poorly with prolonged contact with water.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

kincade said:


> Michael, you would certainly know more than I would about this, but I was under the impression that copper napthanate was harmful to the girls.


None I'e ever seen and I've used a lot of it.


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## New Ky Beekeeper (Jun 27, 2011)

I still like house paint....


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

Woodenware soaked in a 2% (+-) solution of Copper napthenate diluted with mineral spirits for 2 days.

Dry as needed. 

Undercoat of Sherwin-Williams A-100 oil based primer. 

Topcoat of Sherwin-Williams Superpaint.

First boxes this equipment with this method assembled in 93.

6-7000 thousand boxes latter the first ones still hold up like new. 

The only way these things won't last till my grandkids need to burn them (another 40 years) is Forkliftitis. 

FYI: "Forkliftitis" is the disease often acquired by beekeeping equipment when a forklift driver either punches, pokes, drops, or other any other way cajoles beekeeping equipment to become misshapenned by one means or another. (my term, my definition)


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## swarm_trapper (Jun 19, 2003)

lol honey-4-all

I actually lose more to straptightis which is what happens when you are strapping boxes on the truck you you go one click too tight. No matter what coat of paint you use i haven't found any that will preserve it from a too tight of strap.


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## mmiller (Jun 17, 2010)

I like 1 coat of Kilz primer with 2 coats exterior house paint.

Mike


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## Ranger Cody (Jan 21, 2012)

Riskybizz said:


> I simply mix up a few gallons at a time in a large plastic storage bin and dip the boxes, turning them around a couple times..about a minute a box.


I'm thinking of using the eco wood treatment on my boxes this year, but just for clarification, when you dip them are you treating the interior side of the boxes as well? And if I don't go the eco wood treatment route, I'd really prefer to keep the natural color of the pine before it's weathered, any of you have ideas on an affordable way to accomplish this? Thanks!


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

the bottom boards i got from a supplier had copper naph on them. no problems noticed. one thing better about them compared to paint, is that water doesn't bead up and stand on the landing board.


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## Riskybizz (Mar 12, 2010)

Ranger Cody said:


> I'm thinking of using the eco wood treatment on my boxes this year, but just for clarification, when you dip them are you treating the interior side of the boxes as well? And if I don't go the eco wood treatment route, I'd really prefer to keep the natural color of the pine before it's weathered, any of you have ideas on an affordable way to accomplish this? Yes your treating the inside surface. Dipping is just faster when your treating 40-50 boxes at a time.


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

Squarepeg, 

The reason I paint over the copper N8 is that there is "no food contact allowed" on the use labeling. I assume you purchased your bottom boards from ML. They sell them that way although I'm not so sure its Kosher to use as a bottom board w/o painting them.

See: http://www.epa.gov/oppsrrd1/REDs/naphthenate-salts-red.pdf

"There are no direct or indirect food uses associated with the naphthenate salts." 

Just a note. I'm puling 400 supers out of the dip tank tomorrow if it's not raining....They will be painted as I described above to avoid the direct contact issue.

With the current pricing on Mineral spirits ( 5x that of 15 years back) ....and n8 I'm not sure its still at the point were this is still feasible. Might be less expensive to buy a new box and paint every 20 years than try to make them last 40+.


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## EvansCedarBeehives (Apr 6, 2011)

What's the difference between http://www.ecowoodtreatment.com/ and http://www.valhalco.com/
Seem VERY similar and from the same place?

Either way I may give it a go on the cedar to see if it does anything.


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## kincade (Feb 3, 2011)

EvansCedarBeehives said:


> What's the difference between http://www.ecowoodtreatment.com/ and http://www.valhalco.com/
> Seem VERY similar and from the same place?
> 
> Either way I may give it a go on the cedar to see if it does anything.


The second is apparently a rip off of the first according to Ecowood treatment, and there have apparently been lawsuits as a result. Eco says that Valhaco is nothing but herbs and such, which is supported by some of the reviews talking about herb 'chunks' that are leftover after application.


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## huddlebee (May 1, 2012)

been thinking of switching to this.

http://www.realmilkpaint.com/products.html


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

You might want to read this study on the effects of wood preservative treatments on bees:
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf00125a060


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## kincade (Feb 3, 2011)

Michael,

Although the owner won't say what IS in the Eco wood preservative, he is adamant that there is no harmful materials. Here is what he sent me:



> "Hi no borax for sure just calcuim sufur oxygen iron ,wont harm the bees thanks best regards bruce"


See post 33 in this thread here (should also address Evans question):http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?263053-What-Is-Your-Favorite-Hive-Wood-Protectant&p=743454#post743454


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## bevy's honeybees (Apr 21, 2011)

I'm interested in the eco wood treatment but I can't find a specific list of ingredients. I found this on the site:

"Chemical free: Eco Wood Treatment is a powder composed of natural substances from minerals. It contains no solvents and leaves no harmful residue in water or soil. It is safe to use on retaining walls, or any structure that penetrates into the soil or into the water.contains only 100% organic compounds,no posions.or toxic ingredients.eco wood treatment is a proven WOOD PRESERVATIVE THAT PREVENTS THE WHITE-ROT FUNJI A COMMON WOOD DECAY IN NORTH AMERICA"

Riskybizz, does the packaging have an ingredients list?


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