# Queen Rearing By Cell Punch



## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

I am not familar with the process, would you mind telling us more?


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## FordGuy (Jul 10, 2005)

tecumseh said:


> I am not familar with the process, would you mind telling us more?


you reckon it might be hopkins method?


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## dcross (Jan 20, 2003)

http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/roger_punch_frame.html


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## Ben Brewcat (Oct 27, 2004)

Wow, that's a cool idea. I'll have to check into making a punch or so and try it out.


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## spunky (Nov 14, 2006)

*punch*

looks like an empty 38 special or 357 magnum case , piece of 2 different size dowel rods, and you are there.


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## Ben Brewcat (Oct 27, 2004)

Say.... I'm down to about seven pounds of .30-06 brass, maybe I'll try that!


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## livetrappingbymatt (Jan 13, 2006)

*punch*

308 or 30-06 cut back below the shoulder if i remember right? This will cut around (outswide) the cell.
should go look in the truck?
bob


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## Ben Brewcat (Oct 27, 2004)

Sweet! I'll give it a shot . Then just need to make the dowel. Actually you could probably get a couple cutters out of a case, no?


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## dcross (Jan 20, 2003)

If you guys could get a hold of a fellow named Will Montgomery, he's a wealth of knowledge on the subject. Talking with him at HAS 2005 was the first I'd heard of it.


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

thank ya' dcross. thank ya' very very much.

I have been playing with a non grafting method myself and it is ALWAYS fasinating to see how different folks accomplish the same ends.


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## FordGuy (Jul 10, 2005)

What in the world is a perspex nose piece?


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## dcross (Jan 20, 2003)

http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/cellpunch.html#stanley

The syringe one looks the simplest to me.


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## FordGuy (Jul 10, 2005)

dcross said:


> http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/cellpunch.html#stanley
> 
> The syringe one looks the simplest to me.


well, it did to me too so last night I built a frame full of 10 syringe cell punches. so today, I went out and found a frame of eggs from my favorite hive. It was full of bees, but it was queenright.

I noticed that the thick wall of of the syringe did not cut the wax well. though I had sharpened it well. I sharpened it by putting the tube of the syringe in a drill chuck, locking it down, then spinning it against sand paper till it gets a bevel edge on the outside.

So because of the thick walls, when I isolated a cell and pushed it (I tried pushinig, and also pushing with a twist) the mouth of the cell became deformed. I experimented and learned. I threw several punched cells away. What would be better would be a copper tube. Plus, the syringes ended up being too short to punch through both sides and still grip without riling up too many bees.

The only ones I was able to get in the tube had the cell mouth deformed in some way, even if slightly.

The plunger for the syringe - the rubber causes more trouble than it is worth. What would be better would be just a wooden dowel.

I thien tried different frame of comb. The comb was different in teh way it accepted the plastic syringe tibe.

Of course, I was only punching cells that contained unhatched eggs since I wanted to be sure they were appropriate age.

I am going to do away with the plastic syringe thing and go to dowels/brass tube.


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## JOHN HINCHMAN (Feb 28, 2008)

Dcross 
I Made Mine Out Of 3/8 Copper Tube And I Cut Into 4'' Pipes And Sharpen On Grinder , It Works Good, Best Of Luck


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## FordGuy (Jul 10, 2005)

OK, yesterday I got copper tube, cut into 4 inch sections and worked toward sharpening them on the outside. I have burrs in teh inside I need to address. 

but my other issue is the copper pipe falls off the dowel? how do you get it to stay on?


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## deantn (Jan 3, 2007)

This is really an interesting subject. 
Just in time also as I'm going to try raising a few queens this season and will try this method.
Good reading on Cushmans site, enjoyed some of his other pages before. Will let everyone know what happens with this process.


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## JOHN HINCHMAN (Feb 28, 2008)

*Fordguy Look At Web Site*

FORDGUY LOOK AT THIS www.mancina.vispa.com/cleveland/robandrews.html WEB SITE IT WILL SHOW YOU WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR. ALSO LET ME KNOW IF IT WORKS I STILL HAVE NOT TRIED IT, DID YOU GET THE COPPER TUBE THOUGH OK?


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## FordGuy (Jul 10, 2005)

JOHN HINCHMAN said:


> FORDGUY LOOK AT THIS www.mancina.vispa.com/cleveland/robandrews.html WEB SITE IT WILL SHOW YOU WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR. ALSO LET ME KNOW IF IT WORKS I STILL HAVE NOT TRIED IT, DID YOU GET THE COPPER TUBE THOUGH OK?



OK, first the syringes I made up - still unhatched eggs. They were found as fresh eggs day before yesterday so i fear there was an error.

Regardding copper tubes, yes I made them up with 3/8. The problem with this small tube is it isolates just one cell, but also therefore damages the cell very easily. too easy. So I think the key is to move up to the next size pipe and operate under the understanding that when you punch, you will be punching one cel and the cells around it.

Regarding use of hot wax, this has me stumped as my bee yard is a good tractor ride from the house. (but not long enough a ride to heat wax!)


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## stangardener (Mar 8, 2005)

FordGuy said:


> Regarding use of hot wax, this has me stumped as my bee yard is a good tractor ride from the house. (but not long enough a ride to heat wax!)


if you made up wax cups before hand you might be able to put the plug in and give the plug and non larva part of the plug a finger squish to secure the two together.
purists may cringe at this but i wonder if something like elmers glue or flour paste could be used. just use a dab of glue in a jz bz cell cup and put her in. when i attatch starter strips i use glue because it's less hassle than melted wax. the bees accept it.


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

ford guy writes:
So I think the key is to move up to the next size pipe and operate under the understanding that when you punch, you will be punching one cel and the cells around it.

tecumseh replies:
this punch method seems to be a variation of jay smith's non grafting technique. I think destroying the adjoining cells is inevitable (or at least it was for mr smith).

why is wax a problem? may I assume you are using it to secure the eggs to the grafting bar?


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## FordGuy (Jul 10, 2005)

tecumseh said:


> ford guy writes:
> So I think the key is to move up to the next size pipe and operate under the understanding that when you punch, you will be punching one cel and the cells around it.
> 
> tecumseh replies:
> ...


the problem is not having wax out in the yard. my yard is out away from my house. you need some way to affix the cell to the clothes clip/syringe, or whatever you use.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

You could use a portable propane torch, that's what I use to light my smoker with. It could also be used to melt some beeswax in a used soup can. I use a striker to light mine with, though they even have those that have a built-in ignition source. I also save and reuse cans that some food items are sold in to safely melt the wax in, and where it can remain warm for at least a short period of time.


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## dcross (Jan 20, 2003)

Fordguy, just set a can with wax on the tractor's exhaust manifold


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## tbb39 (Jun 9, 2007)

Good thread i got to give this a try. I have a question? after i do the the punch method. I was thinking about shaking a rack of nursing bees in a nuc and then adding my newly made rack of queen sells in it,would this work?


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## tecumseh (Apr 26, 2005)

tbb39 ask:
I have a question? after i do the the punch method. I was thinking about shaking a rack of nursing bees in a nuc and then adding my newly made rack of queen sells in it,would this work?

tecumeh replies:
well maybe yes and maybe no. 

the maybe yes: you should be trying to approximate the numbers in the swarm box (cell starter box) of a VERY populated swarm. this means a lot of bees and thereby a lot of racks of shook nurse bees. a few nurse bees will not get the job done. actually I have a swarm box set out in my shop and the current outside temperature is about 35 so even with a lot of bees in that little box I don't expect much success.

the maybe no: if you by chance knock the queen off one of those racks with the nurse bees I can absolutely assure you that you will have NO success (and the temperature will not effect this results in any way, shape or form).


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Successful queen rearing is all in the details. Many of the details of one method versus another method are centered around getting queens under all kinds of conditions from dearth to flow to rain to sunshine and getting well fed quality queens in large numbers.

Some of these details under ideal conditions, you can cheat on. Some you can't. I think the most critical is having a box that is overflowing with bees for the cell starter. Anything less is unlikely to have very good success.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesqueenrearing.htm


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## tbb39 (Jun 9, 2007)

thanks for reply if i try it i will use a small box homemade, somewhere in the 6x6 inch range with 5 or 6 puched out cells.


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## JOHN HINCHMAN (Feb 28, 2008)

By Reading The Remarks I Hope You All Get Some Good Queens, I Have Not Got To Trie This Method Yet But Please Post On How It Is Going I Think It Will Be A Cheap Way To Rear A Few Queens. I Am Going To Try This Summer, The Best Of Luck!


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I would always start about twice as many cells as you intend to have queens. You can always cull the small ones out if you like or any of them out if you like. But you can't make more. The bees seldom start 100% of the cells and depending on the weather etc. they will probably start somewhere between one and 90% of them.


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