# Lost 2 nice colonies in OHs in a month



## brushwoodnursery (Feb 10, 2012)

I'm not big on cross-posting but this is driving me nuts so I want to ask in the OH section since there may be special considerations. I posted this in the Pest and Disease section:
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?324854-Observation-Hives-Heavy-adult-bee-death

I've had heavy adult bee death inside the hives. No sign of brood diseases. The first is a Bonterra design and the second is my own, but much like Bonterra. Please read through the post linked above. It's just a few comments long.

Some special case for ventilation issues? Harder for house bees to clean out the dead? Just bad luck?


----------



## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

no idea what is going on from your post but i doubt that the hive design has anything to do with it... one possibility, neighbors planting corn or soybeans before this happened?


----------



## brushwoodnursery (Feb 10, 2012)

Thanks for the thoughts. I manage a third OH that has had its share of difficulties but never anything like this. The location for both is more inner suburban. No farmers nearby. Just looked on Earth to make sure. If they had to forage far; maybe. But it was in a good flow.


----------



## JSL (Sep 22, 2007)

From your description, I first thought, plugged entrance/ventilation, pesticide, or starvation... From the pic on your other posting, it looks very much like starvation. It appears as though the bees began to cannibalize the brood as they will when starvation sets in.


----------



## brushwoodnursery (Feb 10, 2012)

Thanks for your input. The entrance did become clogged in both cases. Clogged with dead bees. Became a gross, wet mess. Might have been a lot of larvae in there, too. Lots of other larvae were in there. Might be SHB. I didn't see any adult SHB.


----------



## D Coates (Jan 6, 2006)

brushwoodnursery said:


> The entrance did become clogged in both cases. Clogged with dead bees. Became a gross, wet mess. Might have been a lot of larvae in there, too. Lots of other larvae were in there. Might be SHB. I didn't see any adult SHB.


There's your problem. When I first started my OB hive I had the same problem. I didn't know bees can't go directly up PVC. Huge nasty mess killed off 1/3 of my hive. Fortunately I figured it out and put a strap down the middle of the tube and they came back but it took a month or so. Fast forward 5 years and I almost lost my hive 6 weeks ago when I didn't feed them while out of town. The queen had laid heavily and I thought they had more stores than they actually had. I came back and 1/2 of the hive was dead and it took me 3 cleanings before the hive was strong enough to fight off the SBH larva that kept going after the brood that was being dropped to the bottom of the hive. It was disgusting but it taught me some valuable lesions. Once the SHB's start you'd better keep working to clean them out or they'll kill the hive.


----------



## brushwoodnursery (Feb 10, 2012)

I don't think the entrance was the problem. Both hives have bottom entrances with short tubes that were working just fine before the incident.


----------



## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

real hot or real cold? the sun can heat these up fast.


----------



## brushwoodnursery (Feb 10, 2012)

Good question. Both are out of direct sunlight and regular room temperature (low to mid 70s)


----------



## mathesonequip (Jul 9, 2012)

somebody with spray deoderiser . hair spray or other household chemicals, most of this spray stuff is all to close to insecticide? township spraying for mosquetos [spelling???]?


----------



## brushwoodnursery (Feb 10, 2012)

I thought about that, too. Both were in schools. Lots of possibilities but I only think that scenario would have been deliberate. 
The county is very progressive but I will look into the possibility. Update: they chemically treat some standing water.


----------



## brushwoodnursery (Feb 10, 2012)

By the way, on SHB, no slime anywhere on the comb. the only larvae were down in the mass of dead bees.


----------



## D Coates (Jan 6, 2006)

I just went through an SHB larva clean out multiple times and there was no slime but they were going after the dead bees on the bottom. It was nasty and there were hundreds of them. I did see SHB's but only 5-10. Every time I got into the hive I killed those I found. It only takes a couple to lay a whole lot of eggs. A weakened hive will not remove the eggs and the larva hatch and fall to the bottom of the hive where they eat all they find. This has nothing to do with Monsanto, hairspray, mosquito spraying, bad luck or stuff like that. Those are red herrings. My office is sprayed for insects twice a year and my bees show nothing. This is hive design and or operator error. I recognize this as I've been guilty of both.

How about putting up some photos of the actual hive and set up? How long have you been keeping bees? Are you feeding? What experience have you had with an OB hive before this?


----------



## brushwoodnursery (Feb 10, 2012)

The one with the wall exit built into the hinge was the first to go. They had swarmed twice in ten days and the die-off happened a week or so later. I've looked over plenty of designs and this appears to be very much like a Bonterra. It has 4 side vents and 2 top. Also, the screened feeder hole was wide open. It is 2x4 deeps. It was fine through many months and had a number of frames with honey when it went down. 
The one with the window exit was thriving, too. However, it had very little honey stored. Some fresh nectar but not much. The colony was booming. It is my own design. 2 side vents and 2 on top with a feeder hole wide open. 2x3 deep and 2 medium on top. 
I have taken care of another OH with 5 frames for a number of years. It has fallen victim to late swarming and a non-returning queen. I have never seen anything like this sudden, massive adult die-off. It is a custom design that's awkward as heII to work. It has a PVC tube in it but is also from the bottom.


----------



## D Coates (Jan 6, 2006)

Bottom entrance/exit is what I'd say is the main issue. I've had weak hives, trying to requeen and I've had to keep adding brood into. Ironically they're requeening as I type so I will be watching them VERY closely (5 capped queen cells). They normally do a poor job of cleaning themselves up and hauling out their dead with a weak queen or no queen. The dead would pile up at the bottom and I'd remove them about once a week otherwise SHB larva would get into them badly. Once SHB larva gets in there they seems to drastically demoralize the hive. Having to travel through or near a wriggling mass that's eating your dead invariably inhibits travel. Had I had a bottom entrances/exits undoubtedly they'd have clogged. Had I not been watching for whatever reason they'd undoubtedly have collapsed.

You've got prior experience with OB hives and the hives look like mine (mine is 5 deeps tall). The only real difference from mine are bottom entrances/exits. With the issues I've had with dead piling up at the bottom I'd say there's your culprit. My entrance is in the middle. I've got venting all over it but the bees have propolized them all closed except a couple so I don't believe venting is the issue.


----------



## brushwoodnursery (Feb 10, 2012)

Yeah, I don't think it's the bottom entrance. That's pretty standard. Easier for them to carry the dead out.


----------

