# Our bees are all dead please help



## Unaweep (Apr 24, 2015)

We started keeping bees last spring, with two nucs , everything went perfect, two brood boxes on each, and one super on each...We harvested 37 pounds of honey our first year, left lots of honey in the brood frames, every thing look great in the fall...In western colorado, it has been very warm , so we took a look today....The bees are all in the hives, but dead...Lots of capped honey, no signs of moisture, no rodents, we are at a total loss...We did have some temps that got down to -6 this winter, but from what i have read, they should have survived...They are quite sheltered from the wind, and have great sun exposure for 3/4 of the day....We are at a total loss...


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## Eddie Honey (May 30, 2011)

Sorry to hear about your bees. Can you describe what you did for the Varroa mites?


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## Unaweep (Apr 24, 2015)

we did not trreat for them, i was not aware that they where an issue in this area


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## Slow Drone (Apr 19, 2014)

Unaweep said:


> we did not trreat for them, i was not aware that they where an issue in this area


If you live in the United States mites are an issue.


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## heaflaw (Feb 26, 2007)

By very warm, do you mean at least in the upper 50's?


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## Unaweep (Apr 24, 2015)

heaflaw said:


> By very warm, do you mean at least in the upper 50's?


yes it was qite warm today


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## Eddie Honey (May 30, 2011)

Unaweep said:


> we did not trreat for them, i was not aware that they where an issue in this area


Ok. 
Next year when you get nucs, it would be good to check for mite levels when you get them, deal with them if the levels are above an acceptable threshold. It is very important in the late summer to check for mites, treat if needed, and then CHECK to make sure your treatment worked.

You've learned from this experience and now you are a better beekeeper


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## heaflaw (Feb 26, 2007)

Just in case: http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?321211-not-dead-until-they-are-warm-and-dead


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## RudyT (Jan 25, 2012)

You'll want to protect your remaining comb and honey/pollen -- if you can freeze until you get this year's bees that would work, or you can check beesource for other advice.
You can also search and find pictures of varroa mite poop in the cells.
You can, if you want and if the bees are recently dead, send a sample of bees to USDA at Beltsville, MD, and they will assess for mites and nosema.


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## heaflaw (Feb 26, 2007)

Are they clustered together on the comb or laying on the bottom board? Do many of them have their heads buried in the cells? Is there honey in the cluster? How many bees: cup, pint, quart, 2 quarts etc?


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## dudelt (Mar 18, 2013)

Unaweep, I am so sorry to hear about your losses. I will agree with Eddie that mites would be the first thing I would point to. Mites are an issue world-wide except for Australia as far as I know. All the books and beginning beekeeping classes cover varroa but none give the first time beekeeper the real magnitude of the problem. My first two years (2010 - 2011), I lost all of my hives each winter by mid-December. Then I started taking the mite problem seriously. I cannot stress to you or any other beginning beekeeper, how important this issue is. If you don't have a plan for dealing with varroa from day 1, you risk a broken heart and losing every hive you have each winter. I hope you will try again this year with a varroa plan in place. If you need help creating one, this board is the perfect place to get answers.


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## Eddie Honey (May 30, 2011)

In my locale, I use Apivar for 6 weeks after the honey flow and the supers are off. Around Thanksgiving I vaporize Oxalic Acid and I do it again around Groundhogs Day. This year we are 41 of 41 but I won't count my hives as "over-wintered" until April 1st.


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## tech.35058 (Jul 29, 2013)

Unaweep, I am also sorry for your loss.
As an academic exercise , you might dip out a cup of dead bees from each hive & carefully examine one or hundred of them one at a time, with a magnifying glass.
There probably wont be any mites on the dead bees, but you might count how many have deformed wings, and "k" wings, which are just two of the many virus' I am told varoah bring on.
are their tongues hanging out? some say that is an indication of poison, but I had a starve out with a few live bees remaining, dragging their tongues.
So much to learn. Don't give up. ... CE


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## fieldsofnaturalhoney (Feb 29, 2012)

Don't believe what you read Got pics? Where was the lots of honey located in connection to the dead bees/cluster? Was there any insulation on top/around the hive bodies?


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## Stephenpbird (May 22, 2011)

Sorry to hear about your bees, I lost many hives to mites when I started too. But you were warned by Arnie in a thread you started.


http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?318792-Couple-questions-1st-year-keepers&p=1341957



Arnie said:


> What have you done regarding mites?
> 
> One last thing: If you haven't already..... kill the mites!!! I cannot stress that enough.


Order some more bees asap and keep asking questions. Good luck.


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## Joel (Mar 3, 2005)

heaflaw said:


> Are they clustered together on the comb or laying on the bottom board? Do many of them have their heads buried in the cells? Is there honey in the cluster? How many bees: cup, pint, quart, 2 quarts etc?


These are the pertinent questions. Mite kills seldom result in large numbers of bees on the combs, especially in a warm winter.


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

Your posts suggest that you tried to use "organic" methods to overwinter colonies that were not mite tolerant. Go back to the basics of beekeeping, there are indications that multiple errors were made, not just failure to treat for mites.

The location should NOT be in a frost pocket, should have a good windbreak, and should be protected from predators.

Avoid feeding syrup late in the fall, either they don't have time to mature it properly or they won't take it because of temperature. Do not under any conditions feed syrup made from brown sugar to bees for winter.

Either purchase mite tolerant queens or otherwise take steps to get mite tolerant stock. Commercial bees typically purchased in packages have zilch for mite tolerance.

As others noted, it is not just the amount of honey stored for winter, it is the arrangement. There should be between 70 and 90 pounds of honey with one brood box completely filled at the top of the hive. This is where the bees will move as they feed upward.


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## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

"Our bees are all dead please help" Once they are dead it is very difficult to help. However There is plenty of help for the next go round. You need to research and develop a management program. If you choose to go treatment free The program begins long before you get the bees. You Must find bees that have some sort of proven record of hygienic behavior, or tolerance to mites. 

If treatment free is not a specific goal then you will need to understand the various regimens for mite monitoring and subsequent treatments. All the food, and protection will not help them overwinter, if they go into the winter in poor health with viruses looming within the population. 

Sorry to hear of your losses but look at it as a learning experience and draw from for the future.


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## bean tree homestead (Nov 18, 2013)

Unaweep said:


> we did not trreat for them, i was not aware that they where an issue in this area


Their is 536,000 results for the search "mite problems bees" on the google. Your problem is common and I am sure before the end of the week if you stick around long enough to read a few more post you will see your issue repeat its self over and over and over with people who made the same assumptions. Not trying to sound as a jerk...it just gets old after a while.


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## Colobee (May 15, 2014)

Unaweep said:


> We started keeping bees last spring, with two nucs , everything went perfect ...We are at a total loss...


'Sorry to hear that. An "Autopsy" is in order. Where did the nucs come from? When you start again (?) begin by checking for mites and treating *as needed*. They may or may not be the cause. Despite the mantra "mites are everywhere", only YOU can determine if they are a significant problem for YOUR bees. 

Good luck this year


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## Unaweep (Apr 24, 2015)

Joel said:


> These are the pertinent questions. Mite kills seldom result in large numbers of bees on the combs, especially in a warm winter.


Thank you for your reply....The bees are manly on the bottom floor of the hive, there are about a quart in each hive...I did not see many with theyre heads in the cells...But, in one hive, many where clustered between the frames, with many frames of honey to be had...


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## Unaweep (Apr 24, 2015)

i am reading, studying, and listening to ALL your input, i value it..Only a fool will ignore information from knowledgeable participants....The bees where in a sheltered area, with good sun exposure, moisture was not a problem, i did partially insulate the hives, on the top of the hives with blueboard..

And this new data is most interesting and sad...there are 4 other beekeepers,who are established, who have also lost ALL of theyre bees! One with 8 hives, one with 6, and another with 8....I will advise them that it appears mites are the issue...The very rural road in our area, is NOT sprayed for weeds, another things that could be an issue...We will examine the dead bees this week and post our findings...
It really was a heart break.....


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

Any dead brood? Any pollen in the hive? A fall dearth for pollen can leave the hive with inadequate protein reserves so the nurse bees die when they attempt to raise brood in late winter. If everyone in the neighborhood lost their bees this might be the issue.

I feed mine protein in the fall if I don't see large amounts of pollen going in. Cheap insurance, same as some sugar on top of the hive in early winter. I'd rather spend a bit than lose my bees.

Peter


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## heaflaw (Feb 26, 2007)

Consider sending samples to Beltsville Bee Lab if they haven't decomposed yet. They can check for mite level and Nosema.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

A large cluster can handle -6 F. A small one often can't.


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## Arnie (Jan 30, 2014)

I'm sorry to hear it. Loosing your bees is such a bad feeling.

Post pictures here if you can, there are quite a few experienced beekeepers who can help determine the cause of death. Then you can learn what to watch for.

It's strange that everyone in the area lost their hives. Unless all the hives were sharing whatever pathogen did them in. 

Learn to look for healthy..or not,,, brood, check the queen's pattern, keep up with and kill the mites, make sure they are well provisioned at all times, look for honey stored pollen etc. These things become second nature after a while, so that when something is amiss you will take note right away. 
Like anything else, it takes practice.

Good luck, and don't be discouraged.


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## Unaweep (Apr 24, 2015)

Have been gone for a bit, took the hives apart, i would like to post my findings...There do not appear to be mites of any kind....ABout 80 Lbs of honey in the two hives....There where a lot of bees burroughed into the cone, where they died,,,There are many frames of great perfect honey, we put them in the freezer fr now...But, some frames of capped honey had a grey color to them ???? No smell of any kind, or bug, issues...And some of the frames where very dark ,empty, for the most part, very little capped honey..We did notice some dead drones in clusters...There where a lot of bees in the bottom of one hive, and some on the bottom of the other one..
I did take pictures, and would like to post them here, if you can help
also, we are looking at getting two packages of treatment / disease free bees, your thoughts would be appreciated... 
Also, in late November it got down to around 0, could they have just froze>


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Varroa mites are large enough to be visible but small enough that you won't see them if you don't know what you're looking for.


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## LeonardS (Mar 13, 2012)

When I first started beekeeping, I took a beekeeping class at the Community College. We had a Commercial beekeeper speak to us one evening, and his comment was, "as a beginning beekeeper, you can treat for mites or you can buy bees from me each Spring". He said it was important to have live bees, so you can learn to be a beekeeper and then explore "treatment free", after you learn what's going on.......if treatment free is the approach you want to take.


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

Michael Bush said:


> A large cluster can handle -6 F. A small one often can't.



is this the temp of the bees themselves or outside temps? winter of 14/15 we hit -17 and my hive were uninsulated and drafty all hives it that winter.


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## heaflaw (Feb 26, 2007)

Bees with their heads buried in cells is indicative of starvation. Sometimes there can be plenty of honey in the hive, but the cluster of bees were not able to reach it. The honey was not adjacent to the cluster and during consistent cold weather the bees were not able to move to it. When you examined the hive, where was the cluster in relation to the honey?

Michael Bush is suggesting that they may have succumbed to varroa. ALL colonies in the US have varroa mites. Pull out a magnifying glass and photos of varroa and examine the bees and the bottom board.


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## EastSideBuzz (Apr 12, 2009)

Unaweep said:


> we did not trreat for them, i was not aware that they where an issue in this area


You need to join a local club. Find some local beekeepers and get a mentor to help you learn the basic's like what is in bloom and when in your area. Mites, Swarming etc are huge things you need to learn quick.


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

heaflaw said:


> Bees with their heads buried in cells is indicative of starvation. .


 More likely indicative of too small of a cluster for whatever reason, bees put their heads in empty cells in winter whether they are hungry or not, that is what they do to compact the cluster.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

It's not exactly starvation, but it's indicative that they were clustered up, but couldn't move to stores and pretty much froze in place because they couldn't generate enough heat to stay active and move to stores. This means the cluster was too small, the bees too weak, or the hive was not insulated/sealed well enough to the extreme cold for the bees to maintain a temperature they wouldn't freeze at. This is typical of mite stress/issues, as the bees weakened from virus die off quickly and the cluster quickly shrinks to below viable thresholds if you have real winters.


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## BadBeeKeeper (Jan 24, 2015)

JRG13 said:


> It's not exactly starvation, but it's indicative that they were clustered up, but couldn't move to stores and pretty much froze in place because they couldn't generate enough heat to stay active and move to stores. This means the cluster was too small, the bees too weak, or the hive was not insulated/sealed well enough to the extreme cold for the bees to maintain a temperature they wouldn't freeze at. This is typical of mite stress/issues, as the bees weakened from virus die off quickly and the cluster quickly shrinks to below viable thresholds if you have real winters.


I know that there are some people who will say that they never insulate, and maybe that works for them. But I have found that insulating (sides and top, plus moisture board, and top and bottom ventilation) is cheap insurance for me. The bees don't seem to need as much food and I've had some really long winter periods where hives have been able to survive without feeding. I had one hive where the cluster was split, and a small cluster of to one side still managed to make it, even though the winter was very cold (often sub-zero). An insulation kit will last for years, and in the long run is cheaper than buying new bees every year. (But don't be a bad beekeeper like me, and wait until the temps are at zero or below before putting on the insulation. Bees die pretty quick if you open the hive in sub-zero temps with high winds. Don't ask me how I know.)


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## lowhog (May 5, 2015)

Several days below -20 and plenty below zero this year in my area. Picture of my hives yesterday. Insulate your hives add quilt boxes and treat for mites.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>is this the temp of the bees themselves or outside temps? winter of 14/15 we hit -17 and my hive were uninsulated and drafty all hives it that winter.

The outside temperature. The cluster never falls below about 60 or 70 F if they are not raising brood and not below 93 F or so if they are raising brood. A bee at 50 F can be paralyzed. At much less than 32 F a bee will freeze, of course.


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