# Finding colonies with failed queens, question on re-queening



## papar (Apr 10, 2007)

Going through hives yesterday in SC and came across a good percentage that had sign of failed queen/laying worker. I'm still seeing plenty of bees in most of those hives so it seems the queens failed recently. In situations where hives are overwintered in the south and the queen doesn't get much of a break do you all re-queen annually or bi-annually?

Thanks for your input


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## swarm_trapper (Jun 19, 2003)

I do annually and can tell a differance. Also i found out in the last couple years if the mites get too high of level in the hives that you will start having a bunch of queens die.
Nick


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## wildbranch2007 (Dec 3, 2008)

did you MAQ's in the fall?


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

papar said:


> In situations where hives are overwintered in the south and the queen doesn't get much of a break do you all re-queen annually or bi-annually?
> 
> Thanks for your input


We routinely requeen annually knowing full well that MOST of the queens we are replacing have at least another good year in them. The results that I have observed are far fewer drone layers and more bees to work with a year later. If I were buying $20 queens my outlook might be different.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

our Cali and Hawaii queens are $25ish, withwhat do you pay for your queens ?
our locally supplied queens run from $20 to $35


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Ian said:


> our Cali and Hawaii queens are $25ish, withwhat do you pay for your queens ?
> our locally supplied queens run from $20 to $35


Cell cups are running about .07 delivered. 
Add in some feed some supplement and a beer at the end of the day you can maybe double that.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

ha ha ha , ya 

thats the way to do it.

wish I had the schedule to do the same


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## Chip Euliss (Sep 2, 2010)

Ian,

I split late, after my bees come off oranges in CA which is usually early May. I mostly use queens I buy from CA or LA but I also start a hundred or so 5 frame nucs with cells. They tend to make strong singles by the end of the summer and each will make a box of honey in a good year. I'm in North Dakota (that's the Province just south of you!) not too many air miles from you and I'd guess you may get similar results. Don't know if anyone sells cells but they aren't too tough to produce. 

Enjoyed your wintering video--pretty cool!


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## papar (Apr 10, 2007)

wildbranch2007 said:


> did you MAQ's in the fall?


Mike- I had to treat at least twice last year, the final was in October with MQS


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## papar (Apr 10, 2007)

jim lyon said:


> We routinely requeen annually knowing full well that MOST of the queens we are replacing have at least another good year in them. The results that I have observed are far fewer drone layers and more bees to work with a year later. If I were buying $20 queens my outlook might be different.


I plan on beginning to raise queens during the summer to replace last year queens, it will really be my first year attempting this. Buying queens is always a great investment for me but finacially not feasable this year. Just seems that I'm seeing more then average failing queens. I'm wondering if the non existant winter of 2011/12 kept the queen working more then I'm used to seeing?? 

Thanks for your advice


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

jim, at what part of the season to you introduce the new queens?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Chip Euliss said:


> Ian,
> 
> I split late, after my bees come off oranges in CA which is usually early May. I mostly use queens I buy from CA or LA but I also start a hundred or so 5 frame nucs with cells. They tend to make strong singles by the end of the summer and each will make a box of honey in a good year. I'm in North Dakota (that's the Province just south of you!) not too many air miles from you and I'd guess you may get similar results. Don't know if anyone sells cells but they aren't too tough to produce.
> 
> Enjoyed your wintering video--pretty cool!


Hey Chip ! yup I do exactly the way you describe, 

I use cells in some of my nucs, but mostly I buy mated queens. The payback is tremendously higher 
I dont use cells in my splits because I need them ready for the flow, and like the nucs, the payback is higher
I need mated queens by May 15th, and we get mated queens here by June

Did you know that's the only indoor wintering video on Youtube, . ?


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

papar said:


> I plan on beginning to raise queens during the summer to replace last year queens, it will really be my first year attempting this. Buying queens is always a great investment for me but finacially not feasable this year. Just seems that I'm seeing more then average failing queens. I'm wondering if the non existant winter of 2011/12 kept the queen working more then I'm used to seeing??
> 
> Thanks for your advice


The guy that you need to pattern your program after is Mike Palmer. He has posted a lot of really good stuff on raising and then wintering (what I call) summer nucs. It takes some learned beekeeping skills but its sure doable. A well mated queen should last two years many will make it a third and I have even heard reports of longer but generally speaking if you get one through a third year you are doing pretty well. You may purchase a well mated queen capable of doing this or you may not and the reason may not necessarily reflect on the breeder as much as the mating conditions. I think, though, that there is pretty good consensus on here that you will have the best luck with locally bred queens preferably from a producer that you know something about. You can even do it yourself with less work than you might imagine. However you decide to do it by all means make every effort to get as many young queens going as possible, they are a really big key to successful beekeeping.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

squarepeg said:


> jim, at what part of the season to you introduce the new queens?


Mid to late March we are making nucs up with a queen cell. This year perhaps even earlier, we are limited by when we get our bees back out of the Almonds.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

jim lyon said:


> Mid to late March we are making nucs up with a queen cell. This year perhaps even earlier, we are limited by when we get our bees back out of the Almonds.


understood jim. do you then introduce your newly mated queens into production colonies as soon as they are proven?


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

squarepeg said:


> understood jim. do you then introduce your newly mated queens into production colonies as soon as they are proven?


Those are our production colonies, they are made up in a full sized deep. We don't normally ever see the queen......... until we hunt her down a year later. A 3 comb nuc should be a solid deep of bees and brood in about 6 weeks.


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

ah ha!

so you bust 'em all up into nucs with queen cells after pollenation?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

thats Jims secret, 

dont tell anyone


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Ian said:


> thats Jims secret,
> 
> dont tell anyone


Too late, the words out now. Its really "cutting edge" top secret stuff that I have revealed here. Young, well mated queens, varroa control, feed em when they are hungry, super em when they are full, get your butt in gear, do the work and don't listen to the screamers of gloom and doom. A few dead hives? Dont sweat it, rebuild them and move on. Pretty much beekeeping the way it has always been.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

shhhhhhh, JIM !


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

> The guy that you need to pattern your program after is Mike Palmer. He has posted a lot of really good stuff on raising and then wintering (what I call) summer nucs. It takes some learned beekeeping skills but its sure doable.


I love Mike's pattern. A caveat though. don't think - if you have a good winter - that you have mastered the process. there is a learning curve and I'm about 1/4 way through it. Having terrible survival this winter after great success last winter. I think it takes more skill than it seems when you read about it or watch his videos. Hard to replace 30 years of experience in 60 minutes


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## squarepeg (Jul 9, 2010)

many thanks jim for your replies regarding requeening.

:thumbsup: :applause:


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