# June mite treatment threshold



## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

You could do a three week five day treatment with OA. Just use one gram of OA for the nuc. Should clean it up nicely.


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## BeeBop (Apr 23, 2015)

So you would go ahead and treat them at this time?
When you say "three week five day treatment" you mean every 5 days for 3 weeks, 5 treatments total? I thought that 3-4 times at 5 day intervals was the norm?

Thanks! I appreciate the input.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Yes and yes. You want to get all the mites as they emerge with the brood. You have no honey supers on nor plans to place them, so you're good to treat


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## BeeBop (Apr 23, 2015)

Thanks! I'll get up early tomorrow and give 'em the first treatment.


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## tanksbees (Jun 16, 2014)

Rule of thumb for me is that if you receive bees and comb from somewhere, assume they are completely mite infested. You will be right 9/10 times.

The oxalic acid will clean that right up, snl's advice is exactly what you should do.


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## BeeBop (Apr 23, 2015)

Thanks Tank!
I'm going to haul my battery down the hill this evening and get my OA weighed out and get everything ready to go for a first treatment either late tonight or first thing in the morning. 
I'll do 5 treatments @ 5 day intervals as suggested by SNL.

I don't know much about bees yet, but I'm already pretty certain that I don't want them to have a varroa infestation!
Heh, guess I better get a clean sticky board ready to see what kind of drop I get after treatment.

I know I want to seal up the hive reasonably well and don't want to stand downwind, but if you've got any other last minute tips or tricks I'm all ears. 

Thanks again guys, I'll let you know how the first treatment goes sometime tomorrow.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Seems like you have it BB. Your biggest mite drop will occur on the 2nd day....... The hive does not have to be sealed perfectly, but plug all the larger openings..... rags, foam rubber.....whatever will do.. Since it's only a 5 frame nuc, one gram (1/4 teaspoonful) of OA will do..........

Above all DO NOT BREATHE THE VAPORS!


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## mgstei1 (Jan 11, 2014)

Early morning, and with a SBB it makes it that much easier going in the tray opening from the back. Drop a rag in the entrance, energize the OAV and always stay upwind. The vapor wont let you breathe it, kinda like ammonia. 
Only time I will not treat is when the supers are on. But all swarms captured and comb gets a treatment whenever I get 1st chance. If I messed with packages they would also get a treatment too.
The stuff works and works well.


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## tanksbees (Jun 16, 2014)

snl, why 5 treatments every 5 days?

I thought the common suggestion was 4 treatments every 7 days.


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## BeeBop (Apr 23, 2015)

Well, my first OAV treatment is done.

I dosed 'em about 8:40PM when it was still light enough to see but the hive was quiet and no one going in or out. I pulled the entrance reducer out and shoved the OAV in the front door. A few bees came out to see what was going on but only a dozen or so were hovering outside during the treatment.

They didn't seem to be particularly irritated about the whole ordeal and didn't come after me when I pulled the OAV out and shoved the entrance reducer back in. I figured they'd be very pissed off after that but they weren't.

Anyway, the first treatment is done and I'll post sticky board counts for the next few days when I get them.


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## hex0rz (Jan 14, 2014)

Personally, I would not mess around with this stuff. Read an msds sheet and you will know how damaging it can be to the body if exposed to it.

You inhale enough of it, you will get kidney stones so much to the point it will cause kidney failure. It leeches calcium from the body to do this.

Get a half mask respirator and use organic acid vapor cartridges before doing this. Sudden shift in wind, you are down wind of it and it's just like inhaling phosgene gas.

Btw, people have died inhaling ammonia. It's not that it won't let you breathe it in, but it takes your breathe away. Ask me how I know!

I just treated my 12 hives for the first time using the crack pipe method and used my respirator and am totally happy today I spent 45 dollars on my health!


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## tanksbees (Jun 16, 2014)

I'd rather treat my hives from far away then trust a respirator. What about the vapor in your eyes? How does the half mask prevent that???

I have a long cord on mine and plug it in and disconnect it from 20 feet away. Much safer IMO than relying on a respirator. I don't treat in wind.


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## BeeBop (Apr 23, 2015)

I got 49 mites on my sticky board 23 hours after the first OAV treatment. Not nearly as many as I expected. We'll see what tomorrow brings.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

BeeBop said:


> I got 49 mites on my sticky board 23 hours after the first OAV treatment. Not nearly as many as I expected. We'll see what tomorrow brings.


I treated on days when the temp was around 40 this winter in January. These hives had capped brood based on the first board (you can see the clear wax flakes). So I made it a point to do another couple of treatments when the weather allowed. I will take care of this in the fall from now on and maybe do a cleanup treatment later in the winter as "insurance". Imagine how many mites are in the brood when they're raising a couple of hand-sized patches in the winter. Crazy. And this is WHILE there was capped brood. So many dang mites they probably couldn't all cram into cells so they're lurking around waiting.

First treatment (smaller board was from another hive, so kind of ignore that one):

First treatment (lots of mites fell off into the snow):


Second treatment about a week later:


I did a third treatment and there were a very small number of mites that fell. All of these pictures are after about 3-4 days.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

BeeBop said:


> I got 49 mites on my sticky board 23 hours after the first OAV treatment. Not nearly as many as I expected. We'll see what tomorrow brings.


As expected. The largest mite drop occurs on the 2nd day.......


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

snl said:


> As expected. The largest mite drop occurs on the 2nd day.......


I OAV'd a swarm I caught a couple days before they had capped brood. Did it early in the AM on a cold morning, pulled the board later (5-6) hours, and didn't see any mites. I was kind of "disappointed". Wish I'd have put the board back in and left it. I figured most of the might dropped pretty quickly. I wonder why the delay between treatment and mite fall? Are the mites dying and then fall off once dead? Or some other mechanism?

I'll know to leave my boards in longer now.  I checked a couple boards during the winter after only 10 minutes there were some mites on the board.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

jwcarlson said:


> I wonder why the delay between treatment and mite fall? Are the mites dying and then fall off once dead? Or some other mechanism?


It takes a while for the OA to enter and kill the mite.........Again, greatest mite fall after 24 hours. Note: Within days of treatment, the bees remove all the OA that introduced and recondensed as crystals in the hive........


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## BeeBop (Apr 23, 2015)

Hmm. Well I'm disappointed. 

It's been 48 hours, (well 47 really) since I did my OAV treatment and the second day drop on the sticky board was 48 mites. That's a little less than the first day. 
I was expecting a lot more.

At 1 gram of OA per deep box the math seems pretty easy, and I know my gram scale is accurate, and all of the OA vaporized out of the pan with just a little cooked wax for residue so I I don't know why the daily post-treatment drop numbers are only about 5 times greater than the pre-treatment numbers.

The hive was well closed up with a board below the screen and the vaporizer above the screen. The vaporizer was in very close proximity to the bottom of the frames. 

Seeking words of wisdom now please.


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## nater37 (Aug 15, 2013)

I do have honey supers on.. and I know to seperate with plastic or sheet metal before I treat. But does it contaminate honey or the wax also? I have several hives that are made out of supers. I am just wondering if those frames can ever be used for honey after I use them in a brood box and treat it. Or do you have to keep those frames seperate after treatment?


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

OAV is very effective. I don't bother with a respirator. I light my smoker so can I monitor wind direction. I then trigger the heater pan from about 10' upwind. Why bother with a respirator and being immersed in the OA vapor when it is easier to just avoid the fumes altogether?


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## mike martel (Jun 20, 2012)

getting off o.a. treatment i use mite away quick strips. i am planning on treatment this week on my two hives that i overwintered
i have made two nucs from them that are booming. i plan to split them the end of june. picking out drone cells i see mites in
them. i don't know how much of the strips i should use in the five frame nucs.
can anyone help me here? thanks


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

nater37 said:


> I do have honey supers on.. and I know to seperate with plastic or sheet metal before I treat. But does it contaminate honey or the wax also? I have several hives that are made out of supers. I am just wondering if those frames can ever be used for honey after I use them in a brood box and treat it. Or do you have to keep those frames seperate after treatment?


If you used OAV, you can certainly use those frames later for either brood or nectar/honey.........


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

BeeBop said:


> Hmm. Well I'm disappointed.
> 
> It's been 48 hours, (well 47 really) since I did my OAV treatment and the second day drop on the sticky board was 48 mites. That's a little less than the first day.  I was expecting a lot more.


You're disappointed??? I'd be delighted with killing that low level. Just think that the mites you did kill you kept from multiplying in your hive exponentially!


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

Since 75% or so of the mites are under cappings and you got 50 or so mite drop from the other 25% on a nuc, it sounds to me like the treatment was well needed and that is good results. Dont miss any of the next treatments as they have to be timed to hit as the mites emerge and before they can jump into another cell. You likely will see similar results with next treatment.


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## BeeBop (Apr 23, 2015)

snl said:


> You're disappointed??? I'd be delighted with killing that low level. Just think that the mites you did kill you kept from multiplying in your hive exponentially!





crofter said:


> Since 75% or so of the mites are under cappings and you got 50 or so mite drop from the other 25% on a nuc, it sounds to me like the treatment was well needed and that is good results. Dont miss any of the next treatments as they have to be timed to hit as the mites emerge and before they can jump into another cell. You likely will see similar results with next treatment.



Perhaps disappointed is the wrong word. But I was expecting the ratio between daily "pre-treatment" drop & "post-treatment drop" to be much higher and it worries me that maybe the treatment wasn't as effective as it should have been. I'm sure it'll be fine.
Yesterdays (3rd day) drop was 22 mites.

The next treatment is scheduled for tomorrow evening.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

BeeBop said:


> But I was expecting the ratio between daily "pre-treatment" drop & "post-treatment drop" to be much higher and it worries me that maybe the treatment wasn't as effective as it should have been.
> Yesterdays (3rd day) drop was 22 mite.


Oh, it was effective! Don't let your anticipated mite drop cloud the results.


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## photobiker (Mar 23, 2015)

Let me ask about the supers. One hive only has a brood box and the other has a super but it is for the bees this winter not me. In this case should I remove or protect that super?

Ralph


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Ralph,
That's a two edged sword. If it's capped honey for the bees, you're OK to leave it on (the OA won't penetrate the cappings). If it's open nectar, remove it. The reason I say remove it if it's nectar, is that the OA crystals will get into the nectar and eventually capped over. The bees will feed on it when necessary. OA fed to bees CAN harm brood. Also, you most likely will do several vaporizations and the OA will build up to a larger degree in open nectar.

If it were I, be it capped honey or nectar, I'd remove it or place a barrier between the brood nest and the super during OAV.


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## BeeBop (Apr 23, 2015)

snl said:


> If it's open nectar, remove it. The reason I say remove it if it's nectar, is that the OA crystals will get into the nectar and eventually capped over. The bees will feed on it when necessary. OA fed to bees CAN harm brood. Also, you most likely will do several vaporizations and the OA will build up to a larger degree in open nectar.


What about open nectar that's in the brood box(es) during treatment. The bees are gonna eat that sooner or later. Is it harmful?


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

BeeBop said:


> What about open nectar that's in the brood box(es) during treatment. The bees are gonna eat that sooner or later. Is it harmful?


True, but that's nominal.........it's a brood box not a super.........


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## photobiker (Mar 23, 2015)

Thanks. Since I need to pick up the box to put in a barrier I think I'll just remove it.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

photobiker said:


> Thanks. Since I need to pick up the box to put in a barrier I think I'll just remove it.


Just tilt it up and place a piece of cardboard. Up to you.


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## BeeBop (Apr 23, 2015)

The hive got it's second dose of OAV last night. [5 day intervals] Yesterday was a busy day for the bees. They got a full hive inspection in the afternoon then an OAV treatment late in the evening. Sorry bees. 
Tonights 24 hour sticky board count after treatment was 86 mites. Quite a few this time around. Die mites, die!

It was kind of weird. The bees were very gentle and calm during the hive inspection and they didn't seem particularly bothered by the OAV treatment either except for 2 bees. It's about a 250' hike up the hill from the hive to the house and 2 bees dogged me the entire way and wouldn't disengage. I tried to slip in the front door but they would give me enough space. So I hoofed it an additional 150' out to my shop and they STILL wouldn't leave me be. They followed me into the shop which was their final mistake because that's where the WD40 can is kept, and... well... 

It was weird that most of the hive wasn't bothered but 2 lousy bees just wouldn't give it up and followed me at least 125 yards. Maybe it's because I was flirting with their mother earlier... 

Anyway, 2nd OAV treatment has been administered and the mite drop for the first 24 hours was 86. Die mites, die...


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## BeeBop (Apr 23, 2015)

The bees got their 3rd OAV treatment and a fresh sticky board last night. 3 down, 2 to go.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

BeeBop said:


> It was kind of weird. The bees were very gentle and calm during the hive inspection and they didn't seem particularly bothered by the OAV treatment either except for 2 bees.


There's always one........sometimes two.......


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## Robbin (May 26, 2013)

BeeBop said:


> Hmm. Well I'm disappointed.
> 
> It's been 48 hours, (well 47 really) since I did my OAV treatment and the second day drop on the sticky board was 48 mites. That's a little less than the first day.
> I was expecting a lot more.
> ...


Don't be sad, all that means is your mite problem wasn't that bad. Much better to treat and be sure. I've treated before and stopped counting at over 2000 the second day...

In your case, I would pass on the multiple treatments. you don't need them. SNL is right, 3 treatments in a row, a week a part, allows all the mites in the brood to hatch and be exposed for the next treatment. but you really don't have the mite load to justify it. I treat in the fall going into winter, without even counting. They get 3 treatments in Nov regardless.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

BeeBop said:


> The bees got their 3rd OAV treatment and a fresh sticky board last night. 3 down, 2 to go.


Doing 5 x 5 days apart? I'm going to start doing my queenright hives probably tonight. My nucs and splits will be broodless very soon and I can hit them just once until fall... hopefully.


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## Robbin (May 26, 2013)

BeeBop said:


> The bees got their 3rd OAV treatment and a fresh sticky board last night. 3 down, 2 to go.


BeeBop, if you've done 3, you are done. You don't need to do 5, you misread SNL. It's 3 treatments 5 days apart.
I usually do 3 treatments 7 days apart as I can usually only get to it on weekends.


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## Robbin (May 26, 2013)

"Doing 5 x 5 days apart? I'm going to start doing my queenright hives probably tonight. My nucs and splits will be broodless very soon and I can hit them just once until fall... hopefully."

Should be 3X5 Three treatments 5 days a part. I usually do them 7 days apart because I can't get to them in the middle of the week.


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