# Essential Oil diffuser for mites?



## crofter (May 5, 2011)

The methods you suggest are considered outdated now and relate to treatment of tracheal mites a totally different beast than the most prevalant varroa mite.


----------



## RiversideBeek (Jun 8, 2016)

I've read about the oil's effectiveness on tracheal mites as well, but there numerous articles (including threads on this forum) that mention oil's effectiveness against varroa as well. I just haven't really seen anything about using it in smoke or fog form and was wondering if it could be used as a quick "kind of help keep numbers down" treatment. I'm guessing the smell would probably mess with their pheromones, but figured I'd ask around.


----------



## crofter (May 5, 2011)

I can't give you the link to it without searching it out but there exists some research on a wide variety of oils that will kill varroa mites. Some of them are much more flexible in that the lethal dose to the target is relatively far away from what results in bee mortality. If I remember correctly oil of wintergreen (methy salicylate) is not the most forgiving. Success at confusing tracheal mites is not parallel with killing varroa mites.

Lots of internet advice is not good advice! Much of it is no longer relevant but has not been taken down. Another such example is fogging with food grade mineral oil. The same can probably be said of some advice in print.

If you go looking for support for a certain point of view it is easy to find!. Make sure your searches are worded so they return negative views as well.


----------



## enjambres (Jun 30, 2013)

Essential oil panaceas just won't die - though your bees might.

There are easier, safer, and more effective ways to kill varroa - why risk an unproven idea?

Essential oils are anything but "natural", which is what many people mistakenly believe. 

There was a fellow who posted in my my first year here and he methodically fogged with mineral oil and documented the effects. Right up until the time his hives were overrun with mites and he had to take emergency measures to save them.

I agree, varroa need suppression, but I'd try oxalic or formic acids as first - and very effective - courses of action. Safer for the bees and real tough on mites.

Enj.


----------



## Arnie (Jan 30, 2014)

Read this:

http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...ed-fogging-today&highlight=mineral+oil+fogger


----------



## Arnie (Jan 30, 2014)

If I were you, I would endeavor to learn from the experiences documented here about varroa. They are deadly. Not to be messed with or taken lightly. As Randy Oliver said; Varroa is one enemy you never want to take your eyes off. 

My personal choice after a few years of failure is OAV. If you follow the program you will have success. It's really hard on the mites, but not hard on the bees. A win win.


----------



## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

Winter green is associated with queen loss. It is also poisonous It takes just a few grams to kill a person. 

EOs in general will cause more damage than good;

http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...and-Microbes-and-ECells&p=1398144#post1398144


----------



## m0dem (May 14, 2016)

https://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/varroa/varroa2.htm
The FatBeeMan (Youtube) also fogs with mineral oil + wintergreen.


----------



## crofter (May 5, 2011)

m0dem said:


> https://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/varroa/varroa2.htm
> The FatBeeMan (Youtube) also fogs with mineral oil + wintergreen.



Check the date if you can and see if that is current advice. The link above was last updated in 1996! Mineral oil and wintergreen fogging is not recommended in anything recent I have seen.


----------



## m0dem (May 14, 2016)

How are we smarter 20 years later?
It seems the mite problems have only become worse.


----------



## Titus_TN (Jun 13, 2016)

RiversideBeek said:


> Some have said good things regarding wintergreen oil and it's ability to combat varroa, and I've read multiple ways to apply it (sugar syrup and grease patty mostly), but I was wondering if anyone had experience, or a guess as to the efficacy, of diffusing the oil into a mist? I sometimes diffuse oils in my home using a small diffusing device, and I was thinking perhaps I could just fill it up, put in some drops of oil (I'd work out a formula) and let it mist in for a certain amount of time.
> 
> Does this sound crazy?


Applying a plant oil via sublimation? That's essentially, inter alia, Apiguard. So yes, it's possible. The trick is doing it yourself in a way that won't kill bees. It's probably easier and safer just to pay for the Apiguard.




FlowerPlanter said:


> Winter green is associated with queen loss.


Could you provide a citation for that claim, please? I don't see anything in the linked thread supporting that contention. I would be interested in reading it.

Of course "essential oils" are poisonous. That's the whole point. Most plants, including those bred for culinary cultivation, contain compounds that are, technically speaking, "poisonous": with some notable exceptions (e.g., fruit) plants don't benefit from being eaten, and strongly-flavored plants such as culinary herbs have higher concentrations of more potent deterring compounds. Of course, the mere fact that thymol or wintergreen oil or similar herb compounds can be distilled to a toxic concentration doesn't tell you much: you aren't ever going to kill yourself eating thyme.

But the whole point of the exercise here is extermination. You need something that is lethal to at least some arthropods. You just need it not to kill the arthropods you like. Some things fit in that category, some things don't. It doesn't seem particularly helpful simply to attempt to cut off the inquiry on which do and which don't by use of the label "toxic."

It would be much more useful if people would (as I not infrequently see) link to or summarize actual findings and research instead of being polemical one way or another. Perhaps that's all been done before and it becomes tiresome for the long-time posters and regulars to retread old ground, but people are asking for help here because they plainly don't know what's been gone over previously.


----------



## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

m0dem said:


> https://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/varroa/varroa2.htm
> The FatBeeMan (Youtube) also fogs with mineral oil + wintergreen.


I am not FBM, nor do I personally know him... but I don't think he uses FGMO anymore (doesn't work). We get this uptick in FGMO talk ever once-in-awhile... I actually finally ran into a beekeeper that says he uses FGMO for the first time the other day. I didn't bother asking him how effective he thinks it is. He also uses OA, so that should tell you all you need to know.


----------



## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

m0dem said:


> How are we smarter 20 years later?
> It seems the mite problems have only become worse.


The bees have already figured it out, at least the feral survivors. It's the people that aren't so quick. If the problem is worse it's because of sub lethal doses of pesticides and miticides. The exact same thing you will do with a 20% essential oil mite kill. (there's a study somewhere that show's spearmint had a 20% at best)



m0dem said:


> https://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/varroa/varroa2.htm
> The FatBeeMan (Youtube) also fogs with mineral oil + wintergreen.


It's a *four part protocol *that did not work in 1996, so in 1999 they added formic acid to their protocol. So if you want EOs to work on mites *just don't forget the formic acid!* :doh:

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?317966-Fighting-mites-with-syrup

This is a quote from WVU link;
"*Be careful! Do not get the oil-wintergreen mixture directly onto the queen*."
How do you keep it off the queen? When bees are tracking this stuff throughout the hive? The purpose is to get it all over the bees to kill mites? 



Titus_TN said:


> Could you provide a citation for that claim, please? I don't see anything in the linked thread supporting that contention. I would be interested in reading it.


Also from WVU; "*Queens: A potential problem *may be that queens on mating flights may have their pheromone masked or *may become somewhat disoriented by essential oils.*"

Seems they knew it in 1996.

I posted several studies on this thread that show essential oils and LD50 for both brood and bees; 

http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...and-Microbes-and-ECells&p=1397478#post1397478

MB said that wintergreen can cause queen supersedure. It's on his site somewhere. he also talks about EOs here;

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnotreatments.htm

Randy Oliver also has a good quote that sums it all up!;

"Since the essential oils are so much fun to play with, numerous beekeepers have indulged in kitchen chemistry to mix up varroa treatments. We don’t hear much from those who kill their bees outright, nor from those whose colonies die later due to lack of efficacy or colony stress due to the treatment. Those whose bees survive for a season generally post their recipe to the internet, where it gains a cyberlife, independent of its actual efficacy."


----------



## logansandres (Feb 2, 2017)

I'm totally new to the beeskeeping topic myself, but I have this farmer friend I met some time ago, he's been doing this for years, and he does use the oils for mites! He actually is using a diffuser, I'm not sure if it makes any difference which one you use, but the one I saw at his place is the third one in the list here http://natadviser.com/best-essential-oil-diffuser-2016-2017/. I guess he knows what he's doing. If you want, I can ask him you make like a little dos and donts report and tell you!


----------



## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

Killing mites with an essential oil has already been done. Apiguard uses thymol. Works real well.


----------



## dennis crutchfield (Aug 5, 2016)

fat bee man uses food grade oils, not the aroma therapy essential oils. I have use them and worked fine.


----------



## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

shinbone said:


> Killing mites with an essential oil has already been done. Apiguard uses thymol. Works real well.


Thymol is one chemical found in the essential oil of thyme, In a pure form it's probably the only one that works. Given to the bees as a vapor not as a feed or direct contact. A lab tested specific dose that kills the most mites and the least bees. Use it as per label within temperature range to reduce the stress put on the bees; 

R. Oliver;

"is only effective in a fairly narrow temperature window of roughly 60° – 90°F. Bees don’t like it much. They fan, they get “pissy,” they may tear out brood. Queens may shut down egglaying, run out of the colonies, or be superseded. In general, it’s pretty disruptive to the colony. This may be an issue if it occurs during the critically important late summer production of future “winter bees.”;

http://scientificbeekeeping.com/ipm-7-the-arsenal-natural-treatments-part-2/

All EOs had higher bee mortality;

http://www.researchgate.net/publica...f_Varroa_jacobsoni_Oud._in_honey_bee_colonies

EOs make bees vulnerably to diseases;

http://www.researchgate.net/publica...n_of_American_Foulbrood_disease_in_honey_bees



dennis crutchfield said:


> fat bee man uses food grade oils, not the aroma therapy essential oils. I have use them and worked fine.


An old obsolete video, see post #13, also see; 

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?283157-Started-fogging-today


----------



## Stephenpbird (May 22, 2011)

Crawl before you walk, walk before you try running. Learn how to be a beekeeper before you try alternative methods of mite control. We know OAV is very effective. Use it and keep your bees alive for a few winters then start experimenting. This way you will save yourself a lot of disappointments and costs.

Fogging cost me at least 14 colonies and set me back a few years in beekeeping. Biggest mistake I made yet in beekeeping.


----------

