# Cooling an indoor wintering shed



## whiskers (Aug 28, 2011)

If it's any help an air conditioning ton is 12000 BTU per hour.
Bill


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## sharpdog (Jun 6, 2012)

From beekeeping in western canada.


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## GoodyFarms (Jul 10, 2016)

If one believes the post below, a hive generates about 70-130 btu/hr so for 100 hives you'll need 7000-13000 additional btu capacity more the empty building requirements to cool.

http://www.beemaster.com/forum/index.php?topic=32136.0


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

If you plan to winter in FL then you will need to cool them down
even more. A hot summer will make the hives a lot hotter inside. So in
a warmer winter environment they need more cooling. In our warm winter
environment there is no need to keep them inside. A hive well stock with the
winter bees will keep them going all winter long. Even a 3 framers can house a small
nuc with a newly mated queen. I just like to know why you need to house them indoor in
a warm winter environment? I can see this need in the snow country though.


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## Brian Suchan (Apr 6, 2005)

It's cold in Michigan but sometimes a lil warm. He has probably not updated his profile


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## swarm_trapper (Jun 19, 2003)

Yup sorry I am wanting to know this for a Michigan climate. The info helps Thanks


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Be more specific in your post would help a lot.
Ian here has a good set up in Canada. His shed is not small though. More
like a warehouse size. Depending on your shed dimension, you might want to
talk to the commercial heating and air company. I'm sure their units will specify
the btus for your operation. PM Ian to see if he can help you out. There is a post
of his set up here also. Maybe you can get the temp. down enough to grow the mushrooms
too during the winter time inside.


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## swarm_trapper (Jun 19, 2003)

Yes I have been talking to Ian a lot he has been a tremendous help! But where he is at he doesn't need a refer unit to cool as his winters are way worse than mine. I am doing a trial size right now then if it works well it will be stepped up to his size shed. 

Now that I know about how much heat a hive puts off i will be contacting a Commercial HVAC Company to get a unit sized. I was hoping there was someone on here with a shed that is cooling it for some personal experience?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Another point your going to need to address is a good air exchange system to use while the cooling unit is active. If you have low sir exchange the shed CO2 levels will escalate. Or just open the doors at night


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Your advantage is going to be setting your hives out earlier than me. I always figure if I could set mine our early March as opposed to early April my hive stress levels would be better


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## swarm_trapper (Jun 19, 2003)

You bring up a good point Ian so here is the next question, I want to cool the shed so I can hold them in longer. With out cooling I would guess they would get pulled out the first week or two of march, but I thought with the cooling capability I could hold them till the first of april when the snow is for sure gone and the Maple starts to bloom. So am I going to hurt myself by trying to keep them in the shed longer?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

It will help keep the hives out of that early spring variability which would be an advantage. If you had cooling, you could hold them through an early warm spell to shelter them from forecasted cold. It's what guys do here.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Ahh, no cleansing flights for another month or 2.
What about the nozema level then? Any issue with the bee diseases for keeping
them in longer period of time?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Yup 
It's why I focus on disease


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

A rough and ready calculation is that 1 ton is good for 100 colonies. Set up two 7 ton heat pumps and you should be able to keep roughly 1000 colonies below 50 degrees. Why two units? Because you want backup in case one goes down. Also, design it in such a way that the heating and cooling systems can be accessed for service without disturbing the bees. Think what the bees would do if the temperature rose and the lights came on.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Keeps a cycling so the defrost does not rebound temps


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## swarm_trapper (Jun 19, 2003)

Thanks Fusion!


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## Markt (Feb 8, 2012)

If memory serves a reefer can put out around 34,000 BTUs of cooling and I think a hive produces around 75-100BTUs of heat per hour. Regardless of temperature you'll definitely need a fan drawing in outside air (Use two half as big as you need in case something goes wrong with one). A good light baffling system is definitely a must as well. I think rule of thumb is to change the air about once per hour (Mine for instance runs 90 seconds out of every 2.5 minutes to achieve this). We set up dehumidifiers with pumps to keep the air below 60% as I found it was trying to climb up a bit on me last winter. It's probably kind of regional which way the humidity will try to go on you as it would stand to reason that a colder climate should produce dryer air. This write up also has some good info if you haven't already found it.

http://capabees.org/content/uploads/2013/02/indoorwinteringrequirements.pdf

Hope some of that helps


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## swarm_trapper (Jun 19, 2003)

Thankyou Mark, Do you use reefer in your shed? The thing I am having a problem understanding is if I cool the shed but then my vent fans change out the air ever hour my reefer will be starting at ground zero every hour cooling new air?


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## Markt (Feb 8, 2012)

Yeah I have four cut in through the wall which in hindsight may have been a little excessive but got them for about $1000 each used from a trucking company. Figured I needed 3 to be guaranteed to keep the temperature where I want it if it was 15 outside and that the fourth would serve as a backup. Basically that ground zero effect is mitigated by having a smaller fan running longer rather than a big one firing all the air out fast and the majority of my cooling is just done with electric fans.

My setup basically works as follows:

2 Small vent fans run 90 seconds out of every 2.5 minutes regardless of temperature
4 Larger fans trigger in the event that my room becomes warmer than 5.5 degrees as long as it's cooler than 5 degrees outside and run until the temperature inside drops back below 5. They have the capability to change all the air in the room every minute.
The reefers come on in the event the room gets to 8 degrees. This would be in the event that either it's too warm outside for the big fans to run or in the event of a power failure as they're diesel/battery operated and work as a sort of backup in that respect. 

I put 1100 in last winter and it seemed to go smoothly.

How cold are your winters? It's those weeks of warm weather mid winter that get a little stressful and I would imagine the warmer the climate the more common those would be.. 

Hopefully that makes sense and maybe helps a bit


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## Markt (Feb 8, 2012)

Double Post


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

I get confused easy and this thread has me really cornfused again.
Guy from Florida asks about cooling hives over winter and gets info from a Canadian. 
Florida guy says the winters are worse in Canada. Really? 

How come a Canadian is so educated in refrigeration of honey bees? I'm confused. 
There's something I missed here. 
Are you guys migratory and that's what I missed?


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## Allen Martens (Jan 13, 2007)

I think beekeepers stress way too much about ventilation for indoor wintering. Bees wintered outdoors often spend month under snowdrifts. 

When the weather warms up in spring, I will run my exchange fans in the wintering room all night long and then shut them of when the outdoor temperatures reach the indoor temperatures. Bees can handle 12 - 14 C easily during the daytime. Warm nights become a problem for cooling the wintering room down at night.

I recognize that many areas get warm spell during winter that make cooling a requirement for indoor wintering. However, when calculating cooling requirements, the fact that outdoor temps are still going to be relatively needs to be taken into account. A little cooling goes a long way during fall, winter and spring.

Wintering bee indoors is much simple and inexpensive than many setups would indicate IMHO.


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## Markt (Feb 8, 2012)

You're probably right... I once put 100 nucs in my car garage with the window blacked out and a plug in fan hooked to an air conditioning thermostat for the winter and had good luck in that respect too. When it comes to trusting the survival of most of my bees to it though I do feel better having a few backups though maybe all I'm really gaining there is my own peace of mind while I'm sitting on the couch worrying all winter.


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## swarm_trapper (Jun 19, 2003)

Excellent Markt this is what I was hoping for! Our Winters in MI are not that cold probably similar to yours i"m guessing. Most of the winter around 25-35F but a 60f spike could happen once or twice a winter. 

So a few questions for you if you dont mind.

How much Cubic ft do you give each hive in the room? I am looking at going 25-30cf. 

How big is your room? And how much air do your two small fans change out? 

Do you feel that you need the three reefer units? 

Thanks very much every one
Nick


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## swarm_trapper (Jun 19, 2003)

Allen Martens said:


> I think beekeepers stress way too much about ventilation for indoor wintering. Bees wintered outdoors often spend month under snowdrifts.
> 
> When the weather warms up in spring, I will run my exchange fans in the wintering room all night long and then shut them of when the outdoor temperatures reach the indoor temperatures. Bees can handle 12 - 14 C easily during the daytime. Warm nights become a problem for cooling the wintering room down at night.
> 
> ...



Allen,

you think that the bees will do fine on the winter/spring days that it would get up to 60F (15C) with the fans blowing in the 60F air for circulation?
Nick


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Being in a warm winter environment I don't overwinter indoor at all.
Anytime the outside temp. reach 40F above the bees become active inside
the hive. You want to keep the temp. low enough so that they will not break cluster.
When they break cluster that is the time they want to fly. Cleansing flights came to mind.
Not good in a warehouse or enclosed environment. If you can solve this air circulation issue then cooling and
air exchange in a small mushroom house should not be a problem either.


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## swarm_trapper (Jun 19, 2003)

it will be totally dark beepro


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## Allen Martens (Jan 13, 2007)

swarm_trapper said:


> Allen,
> 
> you think that the bees will do fine on the winter/spring days that it would get up to 60F (15C) with the fans blowing in the 60F air for circulation?
> Nick


I don't worry about a 60F day or two, especially if the nights are cool. However I don't run my exchange fans when it gets warm during the day. I run them continuously at night to cool things down. I do run the overhead fans to mix the air.

I don't stress to much about the wintering room reaching 60F for an afternoon. However, I would not feel comfortable drawing in 60F air in without cooling.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

I can't turn my fans off during the day through warm spells.
Cool nights are key


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