# New Package - Sugar Water NOT Punctured



## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

That stinks. But honestly, all those bees didn't die in a 1.5 hour drive. Consider it a lesson learned... a relatively cheap one in the overall scheme of things. Was the queen alive?

Also that package is extremely wet with what looks like syrup or something oozing out of the bottom and over the bottom sides. More to the story? Bees in the pile look wet as well.


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## BeeSC (May 31, 2015)

Why is the drive a bad thing? Front and Rear AC on in a new suburban..... no sun and cool 69 degrees. How should I transport them in the future? Other 2 packages living strong now.

I sprayed them with sugar water once I realized they had no food. Was trying.... but wasn't sure what to do. Queen lived for a while. I gave her 2 "slides" of water with my finger a day. Was trying to get more bees. =(


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## Thershey (Mar 12, 2014)

Unfortunately some of the suppliers/dealers in this and all industry's seem to lack focus on the big picture. If you're going to sell package bees to new beeks, a little care and understanding would go along way. IMO a reputable dealer should have looked at that package and not let it out the door. The mistake was made by the package supplier, it happens, but to shift the burden downhill to a brand new, green as green gets customer stinks. 

I'd raise heck with them and would point to two things in doing so.
1- The last sentence of their disclaimer "they are not responsible for packages that leave in good condition. They didn't leave in good condition, they had no food since they were packed and the clock was ticking towards a mass die off from starvation.
2- They basically called you a liar by not believing that the can was not punctured. They wanted to see it to believe it. That statement never should have been made, why demand to see the unopened can if they didn't intend to rectify it? You wasted more time and money producing the unopened can only to be told sorry you are SOL?


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## BeeSC (May 31, 2015)

Thanks Thershey. Didn't think about them not being in "good condition" when leaving. And yes! Why did I have to drive back if they weren't going to do anything anyway!


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## Pooh Bear (Jun 19, 2015)

I certainly would not buy from such a company if that's how they treat customers


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

BeeSC said:


> Why is the drive a bad thing? Front and Rear AC on in a new suburban..... no sun and cool 69 degrees. How should I transport them in the future? Other 2 packages living strong now.
> 
> I sprayed them with sugar water once I realized they had no food. Was trying.... but wasn't sure what to do. Queen lived for a while. I gave her 2 "slides" of water with my finger a day. Was trying to get more bees. =(


What I was saying is that the bees were dead before you left the supplier with them. Unless you left them sit in a garage or something before you installed them. If you picked them up, then drove 90 minutes, and immediately installed them then the majority of those bees were dead when you picked up the package. It stinks, yes, and it's not right. They shouldn't let a package like that go out the door... but on the flip side, you have to look out for yourself, too. Being new that can be difficult, but the people buying a lot of packages are new so...


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## Bees of SC (Apr 12, 2013)

Word of mouth goes a long way in both directions. When I received my first hives [3] the man could have told me anything, I wouldn't have known the difference, all great queens.one died out 2 months later, my fault. 
When people get a hive and tell there friends they like them, if not, tell that too, let people now what to look for...Good luck with the girls....


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## kaizen (Mar 20, 2015)

you should have thrown that can through a 100 dollar window


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

kaizen said:


> you should have thrown that can through a 100 dollar window


Hahaha

Having quoted new glass for a windshield, I would say to stay away from that if you're only looking to do $100 in damage. 

It is borderline evil to have made you drive 1.5 hours only to basically give you the finger, though, Bees of SC. That's the part I would be most upset about.


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## Beregondo (Jun 21, 2011)

Unfortunately there are two incidences of negligence here.

The supplier who didn't pierce the feed can was negligent in doing so, and should have replaced it immediately when your receiving inspection discovered all of those dead bees and you refused to sign acknowledgement of good condition and refused the delivery.

But your receiving inspection, if done, did not discover it.

And you were negligent in not preparing yourself by learning to recognize a package in good condition beforehand, not performing a proper receiving inspection, and signing a statement of good condition for your dead bees.

He was as wrong not to make it good as you were to sign that it *was* good when you received them.

Unfortunately, what was done was legal...even though it is wrong.


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## BeeSC (May 31, 2015)

kaizen said:


> you should have thrown that can through a 100 dollar window


HA! Sure felt like it! 

First smile since this incident - thanks.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Beregondo said:


> The supplier who didn't pierce the feed can was negligent in doing so, and should have replaced it immediately when your receiving inspection discovered all of those dead bees and you refused to sign acknowledgement of good condition and refused the delivery.


Do you honestly believe he would get his money back if he refused delivery? I don't. I don't think any package supplier will give money back. I do think Carolina bee Company is a bad business to deal with based on this accounting. I would go out of my way to bad mouth them in the hopes of saving someone else the bad experience. And you want to do it local.

I think I would take them to small claims and win.


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## Bees of SC (Apr 12, 2013)

If I was BeeSC, not far from it...I would give them, CAROLINA BEE COMPANY, one more chance..for my troubles , time, gas and BAD service, I would want a complete nuc with living bees or I would keep this thread going to next order time. We have a lot of good people in SC to buy bees from.Legal:ws: right is right:gh: Buy local-Bee Happy. My pills are wearing off..


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

I think this is a very weak example of a bee supplier. There was an obvious mistake made in making this package. Such a mistake may not immediately show itself. Whether the bees looked good or not upon pickup is irrelevant. A mistake was made and the buyer exercised due dilegence in handling the package upon receipt (you did, right??). I think you're due a full refund, and I would insist upon it. I've gotten packages that the can was barely punctured and the bee do suffer - for sure! I suggest that you give them a second opportunity to make this right. As menitoned, the bees did NOT leave the supplier in good condition. They were on the verge of starvation/dehydration.


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## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

I would get a lawyer. And have him file suit for losses and punitive damages, including attorney fees and court cost. I sued Wal-mart , in the end I broke even. but it cost them a lot more than it would have to fix the problem to start. And I got a lot of satisfaction watching them squirm when I refused several offers and made them pay all costs, no reduced settlements.


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

if the bees were alive when you picked them up and were home in 1 1/2 hr with dead bees they did not starve. they were overheated during the trip. we had had bees shipped from ga to ny and arrived with empty cans but the bees were fine. they were overheated enroute.


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## CarolinaBeeCo (Jun 23, 2015)

We are so sorry to hear this, it sucks to lose bees, especially as a new beekeeper. 

First, I have to point out/reiterate for the sake of my own business, that you are referring to "The Carolina *Honey* Bee Company" in Travelers Rest, SC, and not to our company "_The Carolina Bee Company_" (www.carolinabees.com) in Kittrell, NC (they used to go by another name, and changed it sometime after we came into business. Wish they would have checked before using it, and nothing we can do about it...but I digress). Someone that was reading this forum thought you were referring to us, and let us know. 

As for packages, we sell them as well so we have a bunch of experience with them. The can not being punctured is not anything they would know if they are reselling from another supplier. 

That said, the can not being punctured would not have made this much of an impact after 1.5 hours in the car. It simply makes no sense. I would assume *somehow* the ventilation or sun was a factor. Being seemingly fine, to this just 90 minutes later...has nothing to do with lack of food. If they were starving prior to pickup, they would have shown sluggishness or something like the photos above while still at the store. If there was sluggishness etc at the store, they should not have sold them to you, and should have contacted the supplier to get you another one. 

As a reseller, we also do not insure packages that leave here in good condition. But, if you have one that exhibits a problem immediately (dead queen or whatever) we do try to help you make it right. That would mean a call to our supplier to try to get them to remedy the situation. If they don't, well we can and do all we can on our part to help you. It's just good business. 

Please know, I am not trying to place blame, just trying to help you figure it out. 

If they were rude about it, that would be one thing, but it doesn't sound like that is the case. A lot of resellers have the same policy of not insuring, but some of us do try to help as much as we can. Best of luck with your other hives!


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## Dominic (Jul 12, 2013)

When one is going to publicly badmouth another, one should really make sure to at least target the right person...


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## Arnie (Jan 30, 2014)

Bad service all the way around.

I'm in the restaurant business. We sell a fair amount of food to go. Every once in a while someone will call and say, "I ordered a "this" but I got a "That". Sometimes they simply don't like the new dish they tried. I never tell them to bring the order back so I can examine it and then tell them to go "eff" themselves. I find out what will make them happy; maybe a gift certificate in the mail, sometimes I get their name and next time they come in I buy their order. Something to make it right.

If they were a good business they would make it right for you. Something went wrong and the syrup can not being punched is a mistake on the part of the supplier. So make it right, don't argue technicalities. 

I have learned 8 words that help me in business: "What can I do to make you happy?" 
Because at the end of every transaction, even if we make a mistake, I want my customers to leave happy, knowing we will take care of them.

Package bee suppliers seem not to have gotten the memo. I have had them argue with me after queens arrive dead. I guess they are so wealthy they don't have to have happy customers.

Edit:
I just remembered a story: One time a guy came in and picked up a box of food. He put the box on the roof of his car while he was fishing his keys out of his pocket. He got in the car, drove away and when he got home.....no food! What the.....? He forgot the food on top of his car and his wife was pissed! He drove back to get another box of food and we had a good laugh ..... I bought his second go-round. I didn't have to, it was his fault. Now I have a long-time customer.

Moral of the story: Take care of the people who pay your bills!


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

beeware10 said:


> if the bees were alive when you picked them up and were home in 1 1/2 hr with dead bees they did not starve. they were overheated during the trip. we had had bees shipped from ga to ny and arrived with empty cans but the bees were fine. they were overheated enroute.


Every package supplier manages them slightly differently (particularly when there's a retailer/reseller in the loop). I don't know how long these sat at the retailer (or other places in their journey) prior to pickup. What I find pretty convincing is that the buyer bought 3 packages (I'm assuming they were all treated identically. Is this true BeeSC?). Only the one with the unpunctured can was dead. I've bought a lot of packages from many vendors, and if I had gotten this package I'd be getting a refund. 

This spring, I got a few packages that left GA by about noon and were installed the next morning. One of these had a can that was barely punctured. These bees were in worse shape than the others. All survived, but had these sat another day or more, I suspect that the die off would have been dramatic.


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

I agree the supplier should have worked with the buyer but how do you explain being ok upon pickup and dead 1 1/2 hr later.? bees don't starve that quick.


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## TurnTex (Mar 6, 2015)

If you used your credit card, file a dispute with them. They will reverse the charges and the supplier will have to work with you to get paid.


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

I agree with AstroBee. Several people have commented that bees don't starve in 1.5 hours. While this is true, the reseller didn't put an non punctured can in the package as the customer drove up. The clock started ticking when the package was put together. The 1.5 hours should be added to the 24 or 48 hours the package took getting from the seller to the reseller.

Alex


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

beeware10 said:


> how do you explain being ok upon pickup and dead 1 1/2 hr later.?


They were not ok upon pickup. The buyer didn't know what to look for and the seller didn't care to look. Go to small claims, no lawyers, the judge will listen to both sides and make a judgement. I predict the buyer will win when an unbiased judge is involved.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

CarolinaBeeCo said:


> That said, the can not being punctured would not have made this much of an impact after 1.5 hours in the car. It simply makes no sense.


How many packages do you sell and where do they come from? I had three white combs started in my package so clearly the bees were getting syrup yet I could barely see the punchers in the can. I knew it was punched because I could see the wet syrup on the bottom of the can but the hole was extremely small. The can was also 2/3 empty. The buyer produced this can that was full that the seller missed. So what doesn't make sense?


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## devil dog (Jul 1, 2014)

I just forwarded them a link to this thread. Maybe they will do the right thing for you.


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## bdouglas (Dec 18, 2014)

TurnTex said:


> If you used your credit card, file a dispute with them. They will reverse the charges and the supplier will have to work with you to get paid.


Actually, if you use a card the retailer already has his money. Most likely the bank that issued the card would take the loss.


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## bdouglas (Dec 18, 2014)

The bees didn't starve in 90 minutes. You signed a statement that the bees were OK when you picked them up.

The bottom of that cage looks very wet. Hope someone didn't drown them with sugar water spray.:no:


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

bdouglas said:


> The bees didn't starve in 90 minutes. You signed a statement that the bees were OK when you picked them up.
> 
> The bottom of that cage looks very wet. Hope someone didn't drown them with sugar water spray.:no:


That was my thought I expressed earlier. Pulled can saw it wasn't open. Panicked and doused them with tons of sugar water. Magically, most of the package is dead because of starvation. I don't know if that's the case, but those bees are awfully wet and it was the first thing that struck me about the picture.

Look, it's tough to admit mistakes, and it's certainly possible that these bees were dead before they got doused with sugar water. But it seems very odd that the picture would be taken AFTER they're soaked. How did the non-dead bees get out of the package? Certainly not shaken because if they were shaken most of the dead would have been shaken out as well. Something just doesn't quite add up. 

Having been a newbie last year, I can attest to some flat out terrible ideas out on YouTube about how to install a package. There are people dumping sugar water on a package from some sort of container... pretty much hosing them with it. Hell, I put a gummy bear (my brother didn't have any marshmallows at his house) into a caged queen's candy plug (because it didn't come with anything in it? wth?) last year and didn't think anything of it. They clustered away from her the first night. Anyone want to guess why? Possible there was a loose virgin, sure. Maybe she was "rejected" straight away, sure. But if I had to put money on it, I'd say it was probably the gummy bear. I know for a fact I never even thought that the gummy bear could have caused it last year... it dawned on me this year and I was looking into marking queens and saw some horror stories about queens getting balled because of either paint smell or residual queen pheromone or whatever.

I'm not a package producer and I didn't buy any this year (my second). The three I purchased last year were fine except things that I screwed up causing them issues. All of them survived the winter too. They are now five hives instead of three. Go to YouTube and watch some package installation videos and you tell me how "on the hook" the package producer should be for some of that nonsense being distributed as "best practice".


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## larryh (Jul 28, 2014)

Good points, maybe the customer panicked, but so what. The bottom line is the feed can wasn't punched. It's poor business practice to tell a customer tough luck. Especially for a measily 100 bucks or whatever..
And as to whether or not they were OK on pickup.. How can you expect a customer, usually someone seeing a cluster of bees for the first time, to tell if they're healthy? Seems like they could have been strong enough to cluster on pickup, and 90 minutes later, not. 

If you bought a new car, drove it home, and found it had no oil in it, would you be at fault for wrecking the motor?


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

larryh said:


> Good points, maybe the customer panicked, but so what. The bottom line is the feed can wasn't punched. It's poor business practice to tell a customer tough luck. Especially for a measily 100 bucks or whatever..
> And as to whether or not they were OK on pickup.. How can you expect a customer, usually someone seeing a cluster of bees for the first time, to tell if they're healthy? Seems like they could have been strong enough to cluster on pickup, and 90 minutes later, not.
> 
> If you bought a new car, drove it home, and found it had no oil in it, would you be at fault for wrecking the motor?


I don't disagree, but if you drown your bees... you're the one on the hook IMO. We assume that they were strong enough to cluster and then not 90 minutes later. They could have looked like they do in the picture just less wet at pick-up. Shame on the seller for selling bees like that. Shame on the customer for paying for bees like that. Honestly, people want to almost be held blameless for the entire first year when they buy a package. It's always the suppliers fault... but is it really?

A new car is not a package of bees. And if you signed a form that said "I've checked this car and everything is good." Yeah... it would be your fault. Obviously.


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## ChuckReburn (Dec 17, 2013)

bdouglas said:


> Actually, if you use a card the retailer already has his money. Most likely the bank that issued the card would take the loss.


Inaccurate. Retailers maintain a merchant account in which funds from purchases are placed, and reversals and fees are debited. The merchant takes the loss. I know of reversals over deadouts 6 months after delivery.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

bdouglas said:


> Actually, if you use a card the retailer already has his money. Most likely the bank that issued the card would take the loss.


"A business" doesn't automatically get a merchant account. You have to have credit. The bank can take money back six months after they pasted it on to you and you don't have much to say about that. A small business with a shady customer service practice is not going to get the best of a bank.


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## ChuckReburn (Dec 17, 2013)

To the original poster: How much sugar water was sprayed on this package and the package you previously installed?

For previous package install, see : http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?312858-Queen-Died-New-Install


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

If you paid by credit card dispute it.

I would post on all the bee forums, and review them on all review forums...
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=www.carolinabeecompany.com+review


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

the way everybody talks lawyers, credit cards etc without knowing the whole story sure makes me glad i'm not selling to the public.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

beeware10 said:


> the way everybody talks lawyers, credit cards etc without knowing the whole story sure makes me glad i'm not selling to the public.


So what would you suggest?


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

There is no way the average purchaser would see that the can was not punctured...especially when covered with bees. If the bees had just been made up they would be OK for a bit before starving...of course they looked OK when you picked them up. 
This is 100% the fault of the supplier.
What bees were left alive? Was the Queen OK?

Is there take on it that with a Queen and some bees they will still build up?


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## AstroBee (Jan 3, 2003)

beeware10 said:


> the way everybody talks lawyers, credit cards etc without knowing the whole story sure makes me glad i'm not selling to the public.


Couldn't agree more. My comments were making the assumption that the OP did due diligence in the treatment of this package in question. MANY, MANY things could have happened particularly since we're dealing with an inexperienced beekeeper. Several of which are outside of whether the can was punctured or not. My first instinct was to trust that the story relayed to us was accurate and complete.


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

I also believe when the supplier asked the customer to bring the can in as proof they admitted to culpability. They probably thought when they said, bring the can in as proof that would be last they would hear about it. Surprise!

Alex


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## BeeSC (May 31, 2015)

Thanks to everyone for your feedback. It helps a lot to know there is such a strong community of support in this new found hobby.

To clarify, I was out of town the day the bees came in on Saturday. I pre-ordered (and pre-paid) and was told it would be no problem to pickup on Tuesday when they re-opened. Susan told me firmly the bees would survive that amount of time. I think they would have, if they had something to eat. This is why I say they starved to death... they were in there a few days.

Our suburban has rear air (always set around 69-70), and dark windows. They were well taken care of in transit.

Yes, the other 2 packages lived fine. They were all treated the same. After I noticed the one can not punctured I probably sprayed 4-6 pumps on the front and back sides with a spray bottle. That too much?

I contacted two apiaries in Georgia where Carolina Honey Bee Company (thank you CarolinaBeeCo) may have sourced the bees. Both said in this situation they would have sent another package. Being late now, they would refund.

Credit card company is sending a form to complete. They didn't seem excited about the waiver I signed.

Waiting to hear from the credit card company or Carolina Honey Bee Company to respond here or by phone or email. 

Thanks again.


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## Sovek (Apr 27, 2014)

Hey BeesSC. I'm not sure of your exact location but I'm in your area. 

First off, I really hate to say this but the SC store is rubbish. I HAVE bought two packages from them, and they are actually my better packages out of the three I got this year. But thats it. Thats as far as my pleasant experience goes with them. Early this year when I discovered the fate of my TBH I tried to discuss why the hive might have died. Once the owner (Tim I think it is) found out it was TBH, his IMMEDIATE response was, and I quote, "That's 95% of your problem". I almost began seething with contempt. Susan is granted alot nicer about it, but she doesn't think highly of TBH either, OR LONG LANGS. Another saturday I came in and asked for some advice. When I discussed about doing a long lang, I would have thought she'd like that idea... NOPE. Her response? "Why would you do that? Bees like to build up". She's seen me, and should know that doing any vertical lifting probably isnt the best option for me. I don't go there for advice unless I need a beekeeper to see something in person. In fact I will drive to Pickens to buy anything (cause BeeWell is cheaper on EVERYTHING) and I will not go to the greenville BKA, because those two also run the association. If I go to a BKA, its in Pickens. In fact, the president of the Pickens BKA is running a long lang and I have yet to hear one negative comment about running a TBH or long lang, despite just about every one of the members running langs.

I dont run a business yet, but I will be, selling overwintered nucs and maybe even some packages here and there (we'll see). If I were to get a customer complaint like that, you know what I would do? Immediate replacement or refund. No questions asked. The problem I have with this is that Susan should have seen that there was a thick layer of bees on the bottom. This is not a sign of a healthy package. You, being new, wouldn't know. She does. Second that "waver" is trash as far as I'm concerned because like I said, Susan should have seen that that package was not healthy. When you call or come back up with a non-punctured can, and its obviously not a can off the shelf of wal-mart (no bits of label stuck on it) that STILL puts the blame on them. When I sell a nuc I will inspect it either the day of pickup or the day before. If I have 50 customers picking up nucs but only 45 meet my expectations I will either take from another hive or call them up and ask if they are willing to wait. If not? take from another hive or refund their $25 deposit. If the customer calls me up a week after pickup and says his bees are dead, yeah, thats a problem with the hive unless he blocked them in all week. I wouldn't try and hide behind a waiver and saying "you are SOL". I'd probably give him another nuc ASAP or offer a refund. The package industry however doesnt like this approach and seems to blame the consumer anytime there is a problem. Bad practice.

Want another sign of a badly run company? Elderly gentleman walks in while I'm asking for advice or buying my own package (not sure which) and say's he's unable to take delivery of his package he PRE-ORDERED due to medical reasons (I.E. surgery). Tim refuses a refund and instead gives the man $100 of in store credit. This was about a month or two before the actual delivery of the package. :scratch: Now, I'm no expert but no one looses anything other than 30s of time putting his entry into the computer. So why not a cash refund? 

My advice is to stay away from them and do your bee purchases either online or with BeeWell. I agree with everyone else, horrible business, and its owners need to get out.


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## tanksbees (Jun 16, 2014)

BeeSC said:


> I was out of town the day the bees came in on Saturday. I pre-ordered (and pre-paid) and was told it would be no problem to pickup on Tuesday when they re-opened.


That's the problem right there, you had bees sitting for 4-5 days with no food or water (Thursday when the package was probably made to Tuesday when it was installed) . Probably would have survived with the open can, but it is still longer than I would leave them. Some package suppliers will not hold onto bees for you because of situations like this.

I'm sure others are less concerned with their packages, but if I am paying $100+ for bees I am going to get them into the hive as quick as possible. If pickup is Saturday they are in my hive within a few hours. I would not leave them until Tuesday, and if I pre-order packages they make it clear that pickup is Saturday, no exceptions.

It sounds like they were originally trying to be nice, holding a package for you, but when it backfired they probably felt like they shouldn't get punished for doing you a favor. Sad situation all around.


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## CarolinaBeeCo (Jun 23, 2015)

Acebird said:


> How many packages do you sell and where do they come from? I had three white combs started in my package so clearly the bees were getting syrup yet I could barely see the punchers in the can. I knew it was punched because I could see the wet syrup on the bottom of the can but the hole was extremely small. The can was also 2/3 empty. The buyer produced this can that was full that the seller missed. So what doesn't make sense?


What part of my comment said anything about the buyer not showing proof of no puncture? 

I said that if they looked fine at pickup, and then like this 90 minutes later, *that* doesn't make sense (as far as food being an issue). I also said that this buyer was brand new, and may not have known they didn't look good, but the seller should have. If they didn't, that is definitely on them.

Some sellers have packages for up to a week prior to handing them to their customers. If that was the case, and they had no food the entire time, they would have shown similar symptoms at the sellers store. 90 minutes is not enough time to go from looking fine, to looking near dead if it was a food issue. Heat/sun/lack of ventilation on the other hand, can easily do this is 90 minutes. 

My other point in my other comment was that as a seller, they should have had better customer service and tried to work with him.


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## CarolinaBeeCo (Jun 23, 2015)

BeeSC said:


> Thanks to everyone for your feedback. It helps a lot to know there is such a strong community of support in this new found hobby.
> 
> To clarify, I was out of town the day the bees came in on Saturday. I pre-ordered (and pre-paid) and was told it would be no problem to pickup on Tuesday when they re-opened. Susan told me firmly the bees would survive that amount of time. I think they would have, if they had something to eat. This is why I say they starved to death... they were in there a few days.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the distinction here 

Contacting the producer is what the seller should have originally done for you. I *think* I said that in my original comment, but I edited a couple times before it wouldn't let me anymore (trying to make certain points clearer). 

I gained more clarity from this last comment of yours. It definitely sounds like heat/sun/ventilation were *not* an issue. 4-6 pumps from a spray bottle of sugar syrup also should not have created a lethargic ball of bees. With them being in there for several days, with no food, they very well were starving at this point. As I said earlier, the seller also would *not* have known the can was not punctured (if they were reselling...if they produced it however, it would be solely on their shoulders), so the assumption that they would be fine for a few days in the package was a good one. Once the can was seen to not be punctured, and them having been in there for several days, the seller should have contacted the supplier to get you a new package or refund. 

Best of luck with your other hives!


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

CarolinaBeeCo said:


> Once the can was seen to not be punctured, and them having been in there for several days, the seller should have contacted the supplier to get you a new package or refund.
> 
> Best of luck with your other hives!


I think the seller should have refunded the money right then and there or given the customer the option of another package (his choice) then take possession of the can and deal with his supplier at a later time.


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## CarolinaBeeCo (Jun 23, 2015)

Acebird said:


> I think the seller should have refunded the money right then and there or given the customer the option of another package (his choice) then take possession of the can and deal with his supplier at a later time.


Sure, that would work too. I won't argue about your opinion or mine on what exactly should have been done or in what order. The whole point is, the seller should have done *something* to try to make the customer whole, and happy. And asking the customer what it would take to do that, giving him options of money back, new package or whatever, would have been in the same conversation.

I sell packages. If I can determine in the initial conversation that there is/was an immediate problem with that package due to supplier error, and I am the middle man so to speak, it is up to me to fix it. How that is done is something I work out with the buyer and supplier.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

CarolinaBeeCo said:


> I sell packages. If I can determine in the initial conversation that there is/was an immediate problem with that package due to supplier error, and I am the middle man so to speak, it is up to me to fix it. How that is done is something I work out with the buyer and supplier.


Good business practice, we see eye to eye.


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## TheCarolinaHoneyBee (Jun 25, 2015)

Before you start lighting torches, let me say that it would be easy for most people to jump to conclusions based on one side of any story. So far, that is all the majority has even attempted to understand. 

I am a commercial beekeeper and one of the owners of The Carolina Honey Bee Company of South Carolina.

First let me say that over the last 5 + years we have sold thousands of package bees mostly in the Carolinas, with some going to Ohio, Kentucky, and Oklahoma.

As a matter of practice, our packages are always shook the day before the scheduled pickup, if not picked up within 12 hours the packages are stored overnight in our temperature controlled room.

As a general practice all packages are fed additional syrup twice daily by misting them, this way we ensure that in the event of a human error(empty can etc..), the bees do not suffer.

This package was picked up on a Tuesday along with 2 others and all three packages were in excellent condition when the customer picked them up.

While in the process of looking at(Inspecting) the packages the customer stated that he "wasn't even sure that he wanted three" but took them anyway.

Of course I encouraged him to install them ASAP, feed them and told him to call me if he had any questions. I provided him with my personal cell phone number to make it easier to reach me. 

When I did hear back from the customer it was via text message with a picture of the can(nothing else) followed by a call, because the package left in such great condition and because we had been feeding them this alone didn't raise any concern.

I believed and still do believe that if he had installed the package immediately it would have been fine.

To the best of my recollection I did NOT receive any phone calls or other communication from the customer for several days, had the customer communicated with me when he arrived home with a package in this severe condition it would have ended differently. Our policy is a pretty standard one industry wide for package bees, any dead queens within 24 hours are replaced. All other replacements are at our discretion based on the circumstances.


At this point I did not hear back from the customer for over six weeks, when I received the second call about the can.

I did explain again that there was no guarantee after this much time, and he asked me to speak to the producer. I agreed to do that and I asked him to just mail me the can to take to the producer. (because he lives so far away, not that I didn't believe him, just to bolster the case)

He agreed.


Shortly thereafter the customer called and stated they were driving up. When they arrived at the store we had many customers, all needing help.

The customer and his wife did not wait to speak to me. My business partner spoke with the customer and his wife while I was attempting to help everyone else. This conversation did not go well and my business partner felt blindsided by the accusation of sending home a dead package six weeks ago(we do not ever do that). They demanded she refund the money and threatened bad reviews on YELP along with Credit Card chargebacks if they didn't get their way immediately.

We always try to help our customers and especially our new beekeepers. Unfortunately sometimes things (comments) are taken out of context or just misunderstood, add in people new to beekeeping and these type of conversations seem to take on a life of their own. 

Our success speaks to the fact we have a very large and loyal customer base. The fact is, in this case, there are two sides.


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## Arnie (Jan 30, 2014)

Here's my take on it:

The elephant in the room here is the un-punctured can. That combined with the fact that the only package which did not survive was that one.

But the fact that the OP was unable to pick up the packages on the scheduled day is a mitigating factor. You gotta get on it, if you order bees make sure you can pick them up. 
Also, don't delay taking care of the issue. Don't wait 6 weeks to get back to the merchant.

Now here's what I would do if I were CHB:
Buy the OP a queen, if his hives are strong enough to split he could get his third have going. I would also make some arrangements for store credit or some such. 

Because the package was faulty to begin with....the syrup can is in there for a reason......the CHB should make it right. All the other circumstances pale in comparison to that. The package wasn't right to begin with. So, eat at least part of the cost of the package and get the OP a queen. 

Then we will ALL know you can be counted on.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

Sovek said:


> found out it was TBH, his IMMEDIATE response was, and I quote, "That's 95% of your problem". I almost began seething with contempt....... I dont run a business yet, but I will be,........ I'd probably ..........


I have to shake my head. Your packages from this business were the better ones you purchased but you have a beef?
Too bad you don't like their view of TBH or Long Langs.

You don't run a business so the "if's" and "I would's" are meaningless. 
Maybe you think they should run their business according to your preconceived notions but it's not your call. Shop elsewhere if you don't like them, their business or policies. Or open your own business.

I'd like to see the reviews business people would write about some of their "prized" customers!
Most business owners learn that there are some customers that are not worth having as customers.

Try the "store owner is always right" policy and one will soon have fewer customers, then try the "customer is always right" policy and see how long your business solvent. Neither works for long.

The buyer should initiate the cc charge back and be done with it. Then find another place to do their business.


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

glad to hear the other side of the story. Its hard to have a business where the buyers are inexperienced with a product that is easily destroyed. most beginners depend on this site for info they read and is not accurate. way too many people have never read a basic book as can be told by their comments. before you judge me I have made a living over 50 years from bees and was a nys inspector for 3 yrs. I enjoy trying to help new beekeepers but some just know too much to learn. I still learn new things as beekeeping is so challenging. If someone knows everything after a few years don't listen to them. beekeeping is a lifelong education. for the people that jump on lawyer talk stay in the city. just some comments from a country guy. thanks


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## whiskers (Aug 28, 2011)

Research "warrant of merchantability" for your state, then decide how to proceed.
Bill


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## Arnie (Jan 30, 2014)

clyderoad said:


> I'd like to see the reviews business people would write about some of their "prized" customers!



That made me laugh. I could tell you some stories!


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

I have worked in construction for over forty years, half of those years with home builders and their clients, home owners. I can only recall four bad experiences. Two of which were because of unrealistic expectations, one because of a change of choice of product color and one was just an outright liar trying to get something free. So, four out of over a thousand is not so bad.
For the most part I believe people are honest and customers deserve the benefit of doubt.

Alex


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## BeeSC (May 31, 2015)

Thank you for replying Carolina Honey Bee Company. Unfortunately you didn't share much truth. Attached are the phone calls. 

I was not "encouraged to install them ASAP" or call if I had questions. I was not given a cell phone number. I didn't text anyone photos. The packages were installed 1.5 hours after pickup. I called you immediately. I emailed photos thereafter.

5/26/15 - reported to you at 2:22pm, day of, couple hours after pickup. Tim asked for photos.
5/26/15 (with time) - email + photos, day of.
(28 days, no response by email or phone - not 6 six weeks)
6/23/15 - follow up phone call asking for help. Tim said he needed to see the proof.
I drove up thereafter with can, they said no way. I then posted here.

Tim, you did receive communication from me. Phone calls, and emails. NEVER did you call me back or email me. I had to do the work. I had to hours out of my day to drive to see you. You provided no solution or help. You rejected me.

You say you're willing to always help the new bee keeper. I remember when we came in the first time for a starter kit. Coincidentally it was the day your live bee packages arrived and things were busy (understandably). However, you tried to sell us anything you could to make a buck. You were out of standard deep hives, then medium hives as well. So you tried to sell us shallow hives to get us started. Anything that would sell the inventory. I'm glad we went to BeeWell in Pickens, SC. Lisa spent time with us and answered our questions. We only got bees from you because you were the only ones. We won't make that mistake again.

*You validated the can was not punctured. The bees starved. My loss. You assume no responsibility. That's the problem.
*
I'm thankful for the support from the bee community here on this forum, and local. Folks from Greenville have reached out to us directly and offered assistance. Thank you.


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## TheBuzz (Feb 8, 2012)

Wise move on their part would be to chew it and give you the money back. Now they're gonna loss least 10 customers next year based on this service. One thing if the can was defective but the fact someone didn't punch it is just bad luck.


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## Thershey (Mar 12, 2014)

And Columbo wants to know, who spritzed the packages while the store was closed Sunday & Monday?


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## mountainmanbob (Jun 3, 2015)

In matters such as these, credit card companies make right for the customer in most all cases. 

When I owned a bicycle shop the company we ran our card numbers through told us that, "our side of any disputes would have to be well proven if we were to come out on the winning side. "

MB


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

IMO that's the price of doing business, a vender buys a product marks it up and resells it. They make as much or more than the manufacture. Most vender mark up every product to cover returns, defects, theft...

I can guarantee you with the profit margin on package bees the vender won't even notice a few returns.

As a vender they need to stand behind what they sell or quite selling it.

Failure to make good with each and every customer can result in feedback that can affect sales.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

I don't think resellers are making gobs and gobs of money as you seem to imply. Wholesale prices listed for a quick check are $75/per for a 3# package. Reselling for $100-110 typically. I figure there are a good number of queens they have to over order to be able to make up for dead ones/early failures. Plus the cost to go pick them up in some far away place. I'm not saying the vendor was right or wrong, but you also have people who refuse to "abide by the rules" like the OP who wants to pick up his packages several days after the agreed upon date. The truth obviously is somewhere in between the OP and the Vendor's post. Both sides share some blame. It's easier to side with the "little guy" because all of us can more easily relate to his situation.


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## BeeSC (May 31, 2015)

jwcarlson said:


> I'm not saying the vendor was right or wrong, but you also have people who refuse to "abide by the rules" like the OP who wants to pick up his packages several days after the agreed upon date. The truth obviously is somewhere in between the OP and the Vendor's post. Both sides share some blame. It's easier to side with the "little guy" because all of us can more easily relate to his situation.


jwcarlson: what did I do wrong?

I picked up on the agreed upon date. Susan told me they would be "fine" for pickup on Tuesday. If I was breaking a rule, they should have refused to sell. This was pre-arranged and prepaid, 12 days in advance (order placed 5/14/15) . I asked about picking up days later because I was concerned, or would have made other arrangements.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

BeeSC, I'm just an independent observer. You tell me what you think you did wrong. I still don't buy that the package was bustling and lively when you picked them up and then nearly 100% dead 1.5 hours later. But all we have is your story and the suppliers story. We don't know if you stopped for lunch on the way home, or let them sit in your garage, or what really happened when they were in your custody. We only know what you say you did. I already shared my story about putting a gummy bear into the candy plug on a queen cage because it was empty coming from the vendor. Should it have been empty coming from the vendor. No. Should I have put a gummy bear in the candy plug. No. At the time I didn't see anything wrong with it, but over a year later I looked in my bee notebook and thought "what the heck was I thinking?"

I'm not entirely sure I agree that if you were breaking a rule they should refuse to sell. The package producers responsibility is not to protect you from your ignorance once you pick up a package... which is when this situation really went south. That isn't to say that the reseller is blameless, however. Just telling you as I see it.


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## tanksbees (Jun 16, 2014)

BeeSC said:


> jwcarlson: what did I do wrong?
> 
> I picked up on the agreed upon date. Susan told me they would be "fine" for pickup on Tuesday. If I was breaking a rule, they should have refused to sell. This was pre-arranged and prepaid, 12 days in advance (order placed 5/14/15) . I asked about picking up days later because I was concerned, or would have made other arrangements.


Left the bees from Saturday until Tuesday in a box with no supervision. Would you leave a dog in a box for 4 days with a bowl of sugar water? It's the same thing.

In hindsight they probably should have refused to sell to you under those terms. Packager, reseller, and buyer all had to be negligent for this outcome. Each one made small mistakes which combined into a big mistake. Nothing about this is black or white. 

You should consult what the laws are in your state - at what point the bees became your property - or what the contract/order you signed says as far as the delivery terms - sometimes the law even changes if you are a consumer vs a business.

It hardly matters what a bunch of internet beekeepers think, so why get into disagreements. This is a business transaction. Look at your contract and the lawbooks for your state and you will have your answer.

But it won't ever be worth it to go to court for $100, so what's the point of wasting more time trying to figure out who is right. If you don't like the company, or how they treated the bees they sold you, or how they treated you as a customer, don't buy from them. That's what the free market is all about.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

FlowerPlanter said:


> IMO that's the price of doing business, a vender buys a product marks it up and resells it. They make as much or more than the manufacture. Most vender mark up every product to cover returns, defects, theft...
> 
> I can guarantee you with the profit margin on package bees the vender won't even notice a few returns.
> 
> ...


Care to back up your comments with some evidence?


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## TurnTex (Mar 6, 2015)

clyderoad said:


> Care to back up your comments with some evidence?


I am obviously not FlowerPlanter but I agree with him 100% and I CAN back it up. I own an online business selling items more expensive than a package of bees in many cases. If I have a customer with a problem, even if it is their fault, I replace, no questions asked. As a result, I have a stellar reputation in my industry and you will not find any negative comments either real or perceived about my service anywhere on the internet. I have over 500 customer comments from my customers on my website where they took the time to voluntarily fill out and submit the form. I also publish all feedback good or bad and there is not one bad comment in them. 

I had one event a few years ago where a customer ordered something that had a lead time. I missed my estimated lead time by a number of weeks and he got online and made a post in a forum about it. It was brought to my attention so I called him directly and spoke to him about it. As soon as I hung up, I refunded his entire deposit. I then spent the rest of my day making his item and shipped it to him at ZERO cost to him. I made him super happy and he went back on the forum singing my praise. My lead times are only estimates too, not promises and I had been sending regular updates to all customers on my waiting list. He missed my e-mails. However, he was upset and loosing $200 on that order was worth more to me than having an unhappy customer.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

I commend you for a job well done and wish you continued success.
However, I fail to see how your account supports the comments made earlier with the exception of the last one. Namely:

IMO that's the price of doing business, a vender buys a product marks it up and resells it. They make as much or more than the manufacture. Most vender mark up every product to cover returns, defects, theft...

I can guarantee you with the profit margin on package bees the vender won't even notice a few returns.

As a vender they need to stand behind what they sell or quite selling it.

Failure to make good with each and every customer can result in feedback that can affect sales.


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## TurnTex (Mar 6, 2015)

I guess it depends on what you meant by asking him to back it up. I took it as asking him to prove his experience in superior customer service, thus my comment. If you were asking for him to back up his claim of making a high profit margin, then yes, my comments don't completely mesh up. My comments were directed to the part about mark up to cover issues, standing behind their product no matter where it came from, and bad feedback resulting in poor sales.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

substantiate these claims:
>They make as much or more than the manufacture
>Most vender mark up every product to cover returns, defects, theft...
>I can guarantee you with the profit margin on package bees the vender won't even notice a few returns.
>As a vender they need to stand behind what they sell or quite selling it. (there is a signed release for a perishable product, wonder what it says?)


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## TurnTex (Mar 6, 2015)

Not to beat a dead horse but thought I would reply to this since you did quote my reply. Not trying to argue, just trying to provide a view point from a vendor's standpoint that understands that customers are gold and without them, you are not in business any longer! Treat a customer right and they will tell all their friends. Treat a customer poorly, even if it is just what they perceive and they will tell the whole world.



clyderoad said:


> substantiate these claims:
> >They make as much or more than the manufacture I know my retailers make more on my product than I do. That is the nature of retail vs. wholesale in my industry as well as any other I know of. Can't speak for bees, though!
> >Most vender mark up every product to cover returns, defects, theft... If a vendor does not allow for defects, returns, and theft, they will not stay in business long. I know I do as does most other businesses. I know there was an article recently where the new president or VP of Walmart said he was going to focus on shrinkage to get their bottom line better and to lower prices for customers.
> >I can guarantee you with the profit margin on package bees the vender won't even notice a few returns. Don't have any idea of profit margin on bees. I know my margin and I can handle some returns in the name of excellent customer service. If I have to take it out of my own pocket and it is not built into the cost, I will do so to make my customers happy.
> >As a vender they need to stand behind what they sell or quite selling it. (there is a signed release for a perishable product, wonder what it says?) Old school business and customer service certainly believes this way. Unfortunately, it is becoming lost in many cases, especially mom and pop operations. I have a 1 year warranty on my stuff. If a customer comes to me in year two with a problem, I replace or take care of it for them. On another product, I have had customers misuse it by not following the bold storage requirements printed on the label and it went bad on them. I insisted in replacing it at my expense though it was absolutely on them and they knew it. This is a product that costs over $100 with shipping. I could care less what my policies or written warranty says if it means keeping a customer happy.


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## Sovek (Apr 27, 2014)

clyderoad said:


> I have to shake my head. Your packages from this business were the better ones you purchased but you have a beef?
> Too bad you don't like their view of TBH or Long Langs.
> 
> You don't run a business so the "if's" and "I would's" are meaningless.
> Maybe you think they should run their business according to your preconceived notions but it's not your call. Shop elsewhere if you don't like them, their business or policies. Or open your own business.


Ok, lets say I still worked for Advance Auto Parts, a retail store that relies on repeat business, same as Tim and Susan over in TR. You come in with car troubles, and would like help, cause hey, us employees work around car parts. Its our JOB to know basic causes for car troubles. You explain your problem, and when I ask for your year, make and model, and you give me a 96' Ford Escort. My next words out of my mouth are "Thats 95% of your problem. What would you do? I be willing to bet you would shop with AAP ever again. 

I may not run a business, but I've worked in a retail store for 4 years, we had policies about returns, pricing ect. Almost every time we went against that policy just to make the customer happy. And you know what? They came back, again and again. They knew that if they came to our store they knew what they would get, and if something didnt work, we made it work for them. I had alot of people ask for me by name cause I went out of my way to help with their problem. Next time they were in the store they would ask for me. 

If the above had happened in my store, where, yes the manufacture was at fault, we'd still refund the money. We wouldn't tell the customer "Sorry, take it up with the manufacture" The same principle applies. You treat the customer with respect, regardless of what he is driving, or what kind of hive he keeps his bees in. If you are reselling a product with a manufacture defect, you replace/refund the product and then take it up with your distributor/manufacturer. You don't drag things out over a webforum over a measly $100

Are there some customers we just told to get out? Yeah, but chances are other stores have run them out too, and if they havn't they soon will.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

TurnTex said:


> Not to beat a dead horse but thought I would reply to this since you did quote my reply. Not trying to argue, just trying to provide a view point from a vendor's standpoint that understands that customers are gold and without them, you are not in business any longer! Treat a customer right and they will tell all their friends. Treat a customer poorly, even if it is just what they perceive and they will tell the whole world.


Are we playing ring around the mulberry bush?
My initial post was directed to FlowerPlanter and the topic is BEES, in particular package bees.

Thanks for your input.


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## TurnTex (Mar 6, 2015)

When I get quoted, I think it is for me and reply. Sorry I ruffled your feathers. Besides, I liked Red Rover Red Rover better!


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

Tenbears said:


> I would get a lawyer. And have him file suit for losses and punitive damages, including attorney fees and court cost. I sued Wal-mart , in the end I broke even. but it cost them a lot more than it would have to fix the problem to start. And I got a lot of satisfaction watching them squirm when I refused several offers and made them pay all costs, no reduced settlements.


Filing a small claims court would much easier and less expensive.


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

TurnTex said:


> When I get quoted, I think it is for me and reply. Sorry I ruffled your feathers. Besides, I liked Red Rover Red Rover better!


Wouldn't you know it! that's why I replied to your original post #67 that initiated this dialog, as it was a reponse to my comment which it also qouted!


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## clyderoad (Jun 10, 2012)

Sovek said:


> Ok, lets say I still worked for Advance Auto Parts, a retail store that relies on repeat business, same as Tim and Susan over in TR. You come in with car troubles, and would like help, cause hey, us employees work around car parts. Its our JOB to know basic causes for car troubles. You explain your problem, and when I ask for your year, make and model, and you give me a 96' Ford Escort. My next words out of my mouth are "Thats 95% of your problem. What would you do? I be willing to bet you would shop with AAP ever again.
> 
> ............................................. You don't drag things out over a webforum over a measly $100
> 
> Are there some customers we just told to get out? Yeah, but chances are other stores have run them out too, and if they havn't they soon will.


Sovek I don't know what else I can say that I haven't already said. Maybe you think they should run their business according to your preconceived notions but it's not your call. Shop elsewhere if you don't like them, their business or policies. Or open your own business.

*"We"* are dragging this thing out on a webforum and not the vendor, who has made 1 post offering their side of the story.

Sure is some truth to your last question and comment though!


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## rwurster (Oct 30, 2010)

The unpunctured can. The alleged short car ride in shade. LOL

Why not chalk it up to a bad deal (on who ever's part) and go on about your business and set up some swarm traps beesc? You'll have better stock you can practice with until you get the hang of beekeeping... that is unless the swarms you catch are faulty in which case you might have to sue mother nature


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

This thread is still going?


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

You've got to have your hands full with all this quoting, Barry.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Yeah, good time to say, "come on everyone, cut with all the gratuitous quoting!"


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## ChuckReburn (Dec 17, 2013)

Here's a few of the ways I've seen new beekeepers kill bees this year:
- Package bees soaked in sugar syrup
- queen and/or bees left in the sun
- queen left on the landing board for introduction
- feeders leaking and creating a SHB infestation
- queen purposely killed (thought she was a marked worker)
- new queen introduced without removing existing queen
- package bees starved to death after hived.

In every instance the buyers asked or demanded replacements. Recently someone asked on another forum what to do about an over wintered colony that wasn't building and several replys were to ask the breeder for a free replacement queen.

The suppliers I know go over the top with customer service and sometimes they draw a line...


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

Barry said:


> Yeah, good time to say, "come on everyone, cut with all the gratuitous quoting!"


+1


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## mountainmanbob (Jun 3, 2015)

Since the can wasn't punched (as would be common practice) my bet is that the credit card company will make a fast refund with just a simple phone call.

And then only if the business can state a good case will they come out on top in a settled dispute. 

Been through this three or four time and always got to keep my refund. 

MB

3,000 views of this thread and counting. The business involved in this case, I think in the long run will be the biggest of losers


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## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

3000+, that's gotta' sting like a you know what. inch:

Alex


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

That is 3000+ plus views of this thread at _this _point in time, but this thread stays searchable forever. As potential customers start considering package vendors for next spring, some of them will find this thread. Some of those will decide to buy elsewhere as a result.

When I was looking for my first bees in November 2011, I was about to put down a deposit at Long Creek Apiaries for 2 packages. I did not know that Beesource existed. Then I searched the web for comments about Long Creek, and as a result found Beesource and the _infamous_ Long Creek thread. 


Needless to say, I did not send my money to Long Creek, and thank that Beesource thread for that. :thumbsup:


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## DanielD (Jul 21, 2012)

Yes, there's all kinds of ways to kill a package or hive of bees, but I would agree the only thing that matters is the can without holes.


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## Bee Bliss (Jun 9, 2010)

Slam dunk
Vendor agreed to hold package and stated they would be fine.
Neither side knew the syrup can was not punctured. It mattered in this case. Stuff happens. Customer was not responsible for unpunctured can.
Buyer states they were installed 1.5 hrs. after pickup and had long drive which many people do without incident. Some people recommend letting bees settle down one hour prior to installation.
One package of bees died asap. Other two packages were fine. All three were kept together during transport.
Vendor can't afford to not make this customer happy. Too high a price to pay to not make right.
Vendor will probably have some repercussions even if he finally does make right.

Be happy your buyer complained to you. We bought two packages this year from a new guy and he will not see our business again. We did not complain to them and we will eat the $$. These were the only bees we have this year and there were crawlers right away. Other issues, too. Absolutely disgusting!


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## Bee Bliss (Jun 9, 2010)

Oh, and I would not have sent the evidence to the seller either. Showing him the can in person was good. Best to keep evidence in your possession.


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## BeeLover (Jun 27, 2015)

I've known Tim and Susan of Carolina Honey Bee Co for quite some time...They head the Piedmont Association for Beekeepers Association. Tim is the current president and Susan is the treasurer. They are fine people, but I think its their mistake. 

The guilty party in this particular case could be Carolina Honey Bee Co in Travelers Rest. They do package and and sell their bees and here's the video to show it with the caption "Today we are making up bee packages for delivery tomorrow. Here the guys are installing a can of syrup and the Queen. She is in the small cage to protect her in transit."...13 weeks ago. Maybe they are the ones who didn't puncture the can. 

Here's the video.

http://ink361.com/app/users/ig-1711402425/carolinabeeco/photos/ig-950028412006034115_1711402425

Just saying...


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## Sovek (Apr 27, 2014)

Thanks for showing that video BeeLover. I love how Tim has stated that an unpunctred can is not possible, but if you watch that video, I can very easily see how its possible to miss one can out a thousand or so packages. When you are in a rush to do things, mistakes happen. To say something is impossible when you are talking about people doing a certain task, well...


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

TheCarolinaHoneyBee said:


> As a general practice all packages are fed additional syrup twice daily by misting them,


Is this an accepted practice for feeding package bees? I have never heard of such a thing. I have heard of misting them prior to install and I have also heard this is a bad idea, but as a method of feeding them when there is a feed can already in their box?


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## mountainmanbob (Jun 3, 2015)

Bee Bliss said:


> Vendor agreed to hold package and stated they would be fine.
> 
> Neither side knew the syrup can was not punctured.
> 
> ...


As I sit on the mountaintop on this beautiful Sunday morning,
unless I'm missing something,
the above seems to explain what happened in a plain simple way.

In this particular case -- the customer seems to be 100 % in the right.

MountainmanBob


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