# Help with ants



## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

Kill them before they get in, poisons that go on the ground, not in the hive. Depending on their aggressiveness, raise the hive, put the stand in a tray of oil or water, block their easy path!


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## fafrd (Aug 22, 2009)

I had a terrible problem with ants and have had several nucs overrun by them.

I built a hive stand that hold 6 hives with four legs sitting in shallow oil pans. This oil barrier has solved my ant problem. The only trick is to keep the rain out of the oil by having a 'roof' over the oil pan - I made mine out of old pie tins.

-fafrd


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## Bradley_Bee (May 21, 2008)

Amdro.


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## merdoc (May 4, 2010)

I lost one of my 2 packages to ants moved the second one before they got it.Now I treat all mounds around my hive and clean up any feed I spill on or around hive good luck.


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## jrbbees (Apr 4, 2010)

Amdro can be picked up at Lowes.
Nice non-powder bait. That way the bees do not pick it up as a powder.

Remember, Black carpenter ants send scouts as far as a football field from the nest. For me Amdro gets them all. They simply come and get it.


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## rrussell6870 (May 14, 2009)

We never really have troubles with ants... but nearly any treatment should work... try to avoid powders as the wind can carry it into the hives... DE has been advised before, but again it can also have an ill effect if it is blown into the hives... Amdro is fipronil and it seems everytime that word is used on the forums people go crazy... france covered every crop in a powerful formula of it and it started killing colonies that foraged the crops, the US has used it in waterways for mosquito control since it was first developed (including water treatment facilities for drinking water supplies) and now they are finding out that it is pretty much everywhere...wax, wood, cattle, people... you get the idea... Amdro comes in a granular form, it works very well, if you decide to use it, but are concerned about it effecting your bees or honey, try using a stick to poke a hole in the mound, then adding it down into the hole... Getting the hives off of the ground would make a huge difference too...


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## Monkadelic (Feb 5, 2010)

A friend built me a "bee table" recently with scrap wood, and he built in an ant/other non-flying pest deterrent... He attached a "roof" of 1x1 around each leg, all the way around, and smeared petroleum jelly on the underside of the roof and a bit of the leg below it. He said that his family would do this in upperstate NY to keep ants and beetles from eating their maple trees. The roof was to keep the petroleum shielded from rain, so I wouldn't have to reapply very often. I guess ants and other things can't "pass" it. I haven't seen a single ant on the hive since he did that!


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## Bonterra Bees (Aug 30, 2009)

The following is a former post of mine. Be sure to check the ingredients of any Brand name ant treatment.

A WARNING TO ALL BACKYARD BEEKEEPERS!
After a complete and startling die off in a thriving colony I believe I have the "smoking gun". "Abamectin B1" and "Lambda-cyhalothrin" the active ingredients in Advance375A and Terro Ant Killer Shaker, respectively, are HIGHLY TOXIC TO BEES and I assume to many nectar seeking pollinators. These commonly available and commonly used ant treatments have no warning label indicating their toxicity to bees.
In an effort to stop the “carpenter ants” from destroying the timbers in my house I applied Advance375A, a foundation perimeter treatment, in close proximity to my hive. Shortly thereafter the whole colony died off in a matter of 4 days.

Mark
www.bonterrabees.com


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## fafrd (Aug 22, 2009)

Monkadelic said:


> He attached a "roof" of 1x1 around each leg, all the way around, and smeared petroleum jelly on the underside of the roof and a bit of the leg below it. He said that his family would do this in upperstate NY to keep ants and beetles from eating their maple trees. I guess ants and other things can't "pass" it. I haven't seen a single ant on the hive since he did that!


I tried tanglefoot only smeared around legs and the ants do eventually get through it. They just keep walking into it and eventually make a 'dead ant highway' all the way across the tangle foot that allows other ants to pass over it. Since I have moved to an oil barrier + tangle foot around the legs, I have not had any problems with ants. The idea of also using tanglefoot on the underside of the roof is a good one and I may give that a try...


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## Merlyn Votaw (Jun 23, 2008)

I put 2 or 3 leaves of spearmint or peppermint on top of my frames .They are gone by the next day with no harm to the bees. Don't know where you will find it this time of year tho.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

fafrd said:


> snip
> 
> The only trick is to keep the rain out of the oil by having a 'roof' over the oil pan - I made mine out of old pie tins.
> 
> -fafrd












Yogurt cups, soda bottles, and pipes were used on this stand.


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## fafrd (Aug 22, 2009)

Nice design, but how do you ever top off the oil level or clean out dead bees etc.. if they ever clog up the surface of the oil?

-fafrd


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

fafrd said:


> Nice design, but how do you ever top off the oil level or clean out dead bees etc.. if they ever clog up the surface of the oil?
> 
> -fafrd


You don't/I didn't...

My first two hives had legs like this but I'm doing away with them when I move the hives in the spring.


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## TexasTim (Oct 20, 2010)

This may seem a stupid remark but I learned the hard way. I had allowed grassy weeds to grow up around many of my hives. Even with the oil at the feet trick, I kept getting hoards of fire ants. One day I was squatting down, scratching my head trying to figure out how these darn ants were over running this one hive and I saw it...a single, rather tall stem of grass was a ant super highway. It was barely even touching the hive...and tons of ants were offloading.
I now keep my hive area well sprayed with Roundup. Problem (near) solved.


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## bjoynes (Jun 20, 2010)

Has anyone ever tried "TangleFoot" at the base of the legs, or maybe DuctTape sticky side out?

Bryn


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## fafrd (Aug 22, 2009)

Tried tanglefoot at the base of the legs, and as I said earlier, the ants will eventuallt make a 'dead-ant-highway' across the tanglefoot and come marching in...

Also learned the hardway about the single-blade-of-grass oil barrier bypass...

I placed a thick sheet of plastic below my hives to keep the grass from growing and use tanglefoot onl the legs as a second barrier beyond a pan of vegetable oil around the feet as a primary barrier. This has solved my problem with ants.

-fafrd


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## Duboisi (Oct 7, 2009)

One way to make the oil stay in the container, is to use a small hose in the side of the container to the bottom.
Any rain will go trough the oil to the bottom , and then go out the hose.

BTW: Ants, wasps and bees are part of the same family. (Not sure about the US name, but the Norwegian name is something like "vein-wing".) 
This means than any pesticide/powder that kills ants/bees/wasps will also kill the other two.


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## marksb (Jun 20, 2009)

We have significant Argentive ant problems in our area. I have used tanglefoot fairly succesfully. I found that just painting the legs under hive requires reapplication oocsioanlly because it tends to collect blowing dust or dirt splashed by rain. Once that happens the ants have a easy time getting across. Also I found that bees landing on the legs became sacrifices. The most succesfull has been the equivalent of an upside cup that is coated on the inside with tanglefoot at the top of the legs. The bees don't seems to get stuck as much and the dust and dirt don't seem to accumulate. I have on stand with this that has remained effective for 2 years without reapplying. A board on the ground has been very effective at keeping grass away without resorting to herbicides.


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## Monkadelic (Feb 5, 2010)

Newbee question: what is tanglefoot?

Thanks


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## bjoynes (Jun 20, 2010)

Great question Monkadelic,

Tanglefoot is a glutenous, sticky mixture that you spread around a trunk of a tree to prevent certain pests from climbing up the trunk to attack the leaves, buds limbs ect. Well it can also be used to stop any walking pest such as an ant climbing up the legs of a bee stand to get after the honey or sugar. It reminds me of axle grease, but much more sticky.

I hope that explains it.

Bryn


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## fafrd (Aug 22, 2009)

Think of Tanglefoot as 'brown Vaseline'. It no doubt has some chemicals in it that either deter pests of kill them, but the primary action seems to be trapping the walking insects in the goo. Which is why it only lasts so long - eventually the ants form a 'dead-ant-freeway' across the surface and they can march right across the Tanglefoot barrier (on the skeletons of their sisters ).

Two years without needing to be replaced is pretty good. I had to replace mine every 3 months or so until I added an oil dish as a primary barrier and use the tanglefoot around the legs just to catch the occasional ant that makes its way through the oil. 

I have another question about ant barriers - would the same techniques be effective in preventing small hive beetle (SHB) from entering the hive? I have no experience with SHB -can they fly?:scratch:

-fafrd


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## TxFirefighter (Dec 14, 2010)

fafrd said:


> I have no experience with SHB -can they fly?:scratch:
> 
> -fafrd


Yes..i'm almost positive they can.

Also found this when looking around the internet regarding ants and hives. It has some useful info i think.


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## marksb (Jun 20, 2009)

Tanglefoot is a mixture of carnuba wax and an oil. It is available at many hardware stores like Home depot and OSH. It is a very sticky goo that climbing insects can easily cross. It is primarily sold to keep ants outs of cirtus trees.


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## bjoynes (Jun 20, 2010)

SHB can fly. It has been mentioned that there is a video where you can see a SHB fly into a hive just as the Beek takes off the hive top. Tangle foot would work for Varroa mite though, although from discussion on the boards the mite supposedly does not walk very far.

Bryn


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## summer1052 (Oct 21, 2007)

Yeah, Fire Ants are absolutely a Scourge Upon The Earth. And yes, they will walk up grass, over Tanglefoot, and the bodies of their dead bretheren to get to a hive. They don't seem to steal honey or wax, they just go in and sting all the babies and kill them.

I have nice hive stands DH built with legs of 4x4s. And we tried the legs in motor oil. Then water. Then Tanglefoot and oil. Then Cinnamon around the entrance and Tanglefoot and oil and . . . You get the idea.

Final solution was to use pie tins with Fire Ant granules as a base for the legs. The bees ignore the granules, and the Fire ants won't cross them. If it rains, it's still effective for several weeks. It's not my ideal solution, but for now, it works. 

Yes, SHB fly. They are a sap beetle, and will fly in the front door of a hive. Brats.

I am going to experiment this spring with some hot pepper mixes on Fire ants. DH made a batch of pickled carrots 2 years ago with whole jalapenos in the jar. Usually these are pleasantly spicy and tasty. But we picked up a batch of nuclear jalapenos. Yikes! These carrots are too much. Inedible. DH grew up here in south TX, and routinely munches jalapenos and the occasional habanero. And these are too hot for him. I threw the carrots into the composter, and on a whim, dumped the brine on a Fire ant hill. I didn't kill them all, but I knocked them back hard and slowed them down. It might be an organic way to make a dent in their numbers.

Good luck in your war on FA!
summer


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## fafrd (Aug 22, 2009)

Summer,

I thought I had a severe ant probem, but yours sounds even worse!

Tanglefoot around the legs and the legs sitting in a pie tin of vegetable oil seems to have kept my ants at bay, but I am still curious about your _'final soution_'.

What are Fire Ant granules, how long do they last, and are there any downsides (are they bad for the bees and/or bad to have near a hive)?

thanks,

-fafrd


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## BeeKeith (Jan 16, 2011)

For an organic fire ant control ( close to the house ), a 5 gallon bucket of hot water with a small squirt of dish detergent will take care of 2 to 5 ant hills. The detergent reduces surface tension allowing the hot water to soak into the ant hill more easily. The hot water? If your home's hot water heater is reasonably on the hot side, that's hot enough. Your just trying to cook the queen. And close to the house? It's up to you just how far you want to carry it. This should let you target just the fire ants. Some of those others are beneficial.For what I don't know. This is a bee forum. lol


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## stan.vick (Dec 19, 2010)

I have top bar hives resting on blocks. I place a one inch pvc end cap under each corner. I have a container of half mineral oil and half petroleum jelly, using a small paint brush I apply the mixture every one to two weeks, more during rainy weather. The end caps were the only solution for me because they don't soak up the mixture. 
I like ants around the hive just not in it. I think they eat a lot of hive pest such as shb larvae and mites that fall through the bottom screen.


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## summer1052 (Oct 21, 2007)

Keith, I did a walk today in a 5'-0" perimeter around the slab today. I counted 38 FA hills. That doesn't cover the rest of my 25 acres. And I only target around the house, pump house, tractor shed and beehives. Cursed creatures of questionable parentage! I'm not trying the boiling water/soap method. I *have* tried it, and had less than 50% success. On the bright side, I skipped a couple of workouts that way . . . 

FA granules are any pesticide targeted at FA that come in granular form. Bigger than sand, smaller than pea gravel. Too big for the bees to bother, but it will kill the ants. For now I use it in targeted doses, and figure a 50% reduction in hills is success. Amdro is one of the brand names.

I can tell you that the FA do a fabulous job cleaning up wax moth infested hives, and SHB larvae. But that's their only redeeming trait. And WM and SHB are bigger problems for me than others of you -- they don't freeze and die off in the ground. My freezes are measured in terms of hours, not weeks.

Are FA bad in this area? Well, I wasn't here 20 years ago, so I can't compare apples and oranges. But I will say, based on the old timers' comments that the Horny Toad, meadowlarks, quail, partridge, and cotton tails have all been hammered by FA. Anything that nests on the ground has been hit hard. Even copperheads, I'm told. 

Just another critter on my list of trouble makers:
FA
SHB
WM
Scorpions
Snakes
Hogs
Deer
Armadillo

Wish they had all missed the ride on Noah's Ark. We wouldn't have missed them! 

Summer


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## scdw43 (Aug 14, 2008)

"Over and out "broadcast around not in hives no more ants for 8 mons. I like to put it on the mounds and wet it in with a coffee can with holes in the bottom or a sprinkler can . Works everytime.


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