# First tbh



## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

GLOCK said:


> So how long should I wait till i check it again?
> Thank you.


I would wait about 10 days and then check for open brood unless activity at the entrance on nice afternoons dropped off or looked unusual. I like your setup. In my area, I would not be able to use the dark paint on the KTBH. Where did you find the nylon or plastic screen in the bottom? About what size is the mesh? Cheers.


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## ForrestB (May 26, 2013)

Looking forward to seeing more pics as things develop.... 

Cheers


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## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

The cells are too big for worker brood. The larvae near the top bar is in 7.04 mm cells, based on scaling the topbar depth by pixel. So these are clearly going to develop into drones.

The short edge of business card is a great over-under gauge for 5.1 mm cells. Try sticking a business card to the pix of your comb.

Classic foundationless issue -- lazy bees build big cells to store honey/make drones.

The nice straight combs will provide a good template for the bees to build actual usuable broodnest, but if the queen settles on these combs, you will get lots of drone and not much worker.


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## GLOCK (Dec 29, 2009)

JWChesnut said:


> The cells are too big for worker brood. The larvae near the top bar is in 7.04 mm cells, based on scaling the topbar depth by pixel. So these are clearly going to develop into drones.
> 
> The short edge of business card is a great over-under gauge for 5.1 mm cells. Try sticking a business card to the pix of your comb.
> 
> ...


I did know this but I was hopping they would make worker comb between these frames guess time will tell.


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## ForrestB (May 26, 2013)

GLOCK said:


> I did know this but I was hopping they would make worker comb between these frames...


I have absolutely no doubt they will. I wouldn't worry about it.


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## GLOCK (Dec 29, 2009)

Up date . Went out to check on the TBH and I heard no buzzing so I open up the hive and there was no bee's so I start looking around and low and behold there they were on the honeysuckle 

So I snipped them out of the bush and put them back. I am guessing it may happen again . Can I do anything to keep them in the TBH? What about syrup will that anchor them?
Any ideas ?


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

Open brood?


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

I rubbed swarm lure in our brand new hives when we installed packages. But who knows how much that really matters. You could cage the queen or put her in a clip for a while to kind of force them to stay?


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## ForrestB (May 26, 2013)

Yeah, I think open brood would be best, otherwise what Jwcarlson said, cage the queen for a bit...


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## GLOCK (Dec 29, 2009)

Ya think I could lay a LANG. frame side ways in the hive?
I have all plastic foundation and my LAG. frames are all to long.
Thank you.
She was a last year queen I figured she was to fat to fly I was wrong.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Most likely they got too hot. Put them back in, and put some cardboard over the lid to keep the sun off for a few days. 

With the mesh bottom etc it is hard to believe they can overheat. But newly installed bees take several days before they figure out how to ventilate their hive, and mean time if the sun shines on it can easily get too hot.

If they abscond again, could be they are not happy with solid drone brood, although I have done similar myself and the bees have stayed. Could also take JWCarlsons advice and cage the queen, although that comes with it's own set of problems but at least you know they will not abscond.


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## GLOCK (Dec 29, 2009)

OLD TIMMER = They may of over heated it was in the 80s to day and there in full sun and I did not have the bottom open .
I put some syrup{1.1} in the hive and I will open the bottom in the morning I will see how that works.
Can I ad more bees? The numbers seem to be dwindling some .
So the LANG frame idea no good?:kn:


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## Snookie (Dec 13, 2013)

Yes Please Please keep us posted, I'm trying to do the same thing:}

Just waiting for the bee's from my lang to build on the top bars them I'm going to try and give it a go also:}

Thanks for sharing!


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Yes you can add bees. They should come from a different site though or they can return to their own hive then come back with others & rob the TBH.

The procedure is to shake the bees into a container, I use packages but a nuc could do, the bees should be left for 24 hours so they know they are queenless & won't kill the queen in the TBH. Prior to tipping them into the TBH they should be drizzled with sugar water & given an hour or so to lick themselves clean, this puts them in a good mood & less likely to fight with the bees from the TBH. Just prior to tipping them into the TBH dampen them with water, then tip them into the opposite end of the hive than where the bees and queen are, so they will dry themselves off and make their way down there slowly.

Here are some pics of me doing it in a lang, the procedure is exactly the same as for a TBH. First pic the bees are dampened. Second pic the bees being tipped in, the lang has a weak 3 frame nuc at one end. The new bees are tipped in at the other end where a frame has been removed to make room. Third pic bees being scraped into the gap so the lid can be put on without killing any.







If you have no option but use bees from the same site, it could be done but take extreme measures to prevent robbing. These are do not feed syrup, and keep entrance tiny. After a week the bees will be older and there will be guard bees, you can cautiously start feeding syrup plus open the entrance a bit. If the bees may starve over the first week, last thing in evening when flying has nearly stopped, just drizzle some syrup straight into a comb then put it back in the hive, just to sustain the bees another day or two.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Hindsite - putting the donor langstroth hive for a week or three in the future location of the topbar hive would have given it an instant work force. But actually what you are doing is exactly how I started my first (and last) TBH, and it worked fine - you may just be having a spot of bad luck.


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## GLOCK (Dec 29, 2009)

Well update the TBH bee's took off again and were never found so I have failed.
I am going to paint the hive this week {white} and try again .
inch:


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## mdax (Apr 29, 2013)

That's too bad, but in the end the bees will do what they want, we can only make suggestions.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Be interesting to know if the drone brood played a part in that.


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## shannonswyatt (May 7, 2012)

Glock, on my hives that have "telescopic" type covers I put bars across the top to get air on top of the bars. It has made a huge difference this year in my biggest hive. Last year on my big hive painted dark green they would have a package of bees on the front bearding. This year with the gap there has been no bearding.


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## RacerX (May 10, 2013)

I was where you were last year. I dropped them in and hoped for the best. They left twice and I caught them twice. Someone here (Rader?) suggested I us a queen excluder. I ordered a cheap plastic excluder, cut it down to a rectangle size to fit over the entrance holes, and screwed it down. After a few weeks and plenty of brood, I took off the excluder. No problems leaving since exept the normal swarm much later that I caught too. Don't give up!


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## GLOCK (Dec 29, 2009)

Well painted the TBH white and am going to try to put bee's in it again this SUNDAY.
This time I'm going to cut a frame of brood to fit from one of my langs. and put a queen excluder over the entrance . They made a little comb in the few days the bee's stayed in the hive.
We will see how it go's but I feel pretty confident.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

Good luck! I've caught three swarms and put a bar of eggs/larva in each and all three have stayed around so far. They've all been transported about 30-35 miles. Not sure if that matters?


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## Backyarder (Mar 25, 2014)

The first swarm I put in a top bar stayed for a couple days. The weather was pushing 100° so i opened the bottom board to give them ventilation. The next day they were gone.









I put a 3lb package of carniolans in it a few weeks later, they have 9 bars drawn and are picking up speed. I've left the bottom board in place this time. 
I think (with my one experience) that giving to much free air created a space that the swarm couldn't regulate.

Disclaimer: I'm new and have no idea what im doing sometimes but it is fun and interesting.


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## JakeDatc (Apr 19, 2010)

Glock, Is that your only entrance on the side? Most of the top bar designs i've seen use end entrances 3-5 holes like that. Also it is a bit easier to manage when they have brood on one end and work their way along towards the other end.


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## AugustC (Aug 7, 2013)

Backyarder said:


> I think (with my one experience) that giving to much free air created a space that the swarm couldn't regulate.
> 
> Disclaimer: I'm new and have no idea what im doing sometimes but it is fun and interesting.


Maybe, though I do know that swarms will often abscond if a screen bottom is left open. Most believe this is because of light getting into the hive.


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