# Tracheal Mites



## MCC (May 30, 2008)

Hi Everyone,
I had a dead out in October from a nuc that I got in April, it was cool and wet all season and this hive got progressively weaker even though I fed them all summer. When I inspected in mid October they were basically gone with a handful left. I scoped them up into a jar with alcohol and sent them to the state inspector. The letter came back today that they had tracheal mites. I have another hive next to that one that I thought was a little stronger. What would be the contamination factor and how should I treat them?
Thanks, Mary


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## DRUR (May 24, 2009)

*BeeKeeping in Tennessee*, University of Tenn. Ext. Service, PB1745:
"*Treatments for Tracheal Mites:
Resistant Stock: Recently, several newly developed genetic stocks of honeybees have shown some resistance to the effects of tracheal mites. This resistance is not 100 percent; however, research indicated significant improvement when compared to non-resistant lines. One stock, the BUCKFAST bee, can be purchased from Weaver Apiaries in Navasota, Texas. Additional stocks of the “Yugo” bee, tested
by the USDA, have been released to queen producers to breed and sell. The New World Carniolan stock
is also reported to express partial resistance to tracheal mite. Some queen producers are advertising “resistant” bees. We do not know whether these stocks are resistant or not; therefore, beekeepers should
be careful when purchasing stock that claims to be resistant. It still may be necessary to apply additional treatments as explained below.*"

You might try requeening to resistant stock, or run a search on this forum for current treatments. Sorry for your loss.


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## Axtmann (Dec 29, 2002)

I had a similar situation in a hive two years ago, the result cam back; the bees had a high Tracheal mite infection. I treated the hive with Thymol strips, and send 5 weeks later a second sample for a mite test. The result was 0 mite, the hive was tracheal mite free (killing effect 100%). 

IMO when the fumes are strong enough to kill most of the Varroa, there are no survival for the much smaller Tracheal mite.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

The sooner we all stop treating for Tracheal mites, the sooner we will all have resistant stock...


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Isn't it sad that beekeepers still have problems with Tracheal mite. TM is just too easily eliminated by breeding. And still we're told to administer grease patties, and menthol and formic and whatever else. 

The real problem is with your source of stock. You can't expect to buy TM resistant bees from the usual southern breeders...unless they are specifically selecting for TM resistance. Yes, the Buckfast bee was shown to be quite resistant to TM. Buying them from Texas is a problem...way too aggressive. The Yugo bee was a flop...maybe somewhat resistant, but worthless in other categories...like production and Chalk resistance. 

Your first colony is cooked. Of course the second one has been exposed and is infested. But, they may be resistant enough to maintain a cluster until spring buildup. If it winters well, and is strong come Dandelion bloom, then yoiu have a colony with some measure of TM resistance. 

From here on, you should purchase your stock from a breeder working on TM resistance. You may have to go the same old route...buying packages to restock your deadouts. Once installed and building, you could requeen that new colony. Isn't there someone in your area raising queens? Ask them about TM.


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## MCC (May 30, 2008)

Thanks for your replys. I don't treat with anything, so I will hope for the best. Live and learn. The source was the problem and yes I am working with local queen breeders for next year.


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## chillardbee (May 26, 2005)

Michael Bush said:


> The sooner we all stop treating for Tracheal mites, the sooner we will all have resistant stock...


 You could say the same thing about any other disease thats out there too and that might be just work for a hobbiest or maybe even a side liner. In any case, for commercial beeks, if their hives were not treated for tracheal or varroa or nosema, a beek who makes his living with his bees (say 1500 colonies) could end up with a 80-90% loss the first year. After spending all the following season rearing queens and exploding hives 4-5 ways into nucs then building them up to explode them again 4-5 ways just to get where they were the previous year from those that survived with no chance at doing pollenation or honey, you could very well look at the same amount of losses for the next season. In 10-12 years you might just be able to get down to losing only 40-50%, but at what cost? Those would be some of the most expensive queens were it not for the fact that they went out of business in the second or third year due to unsustainable losses.

But, if a hobbiest knew what he was doing, looking, and breeding for, someone like yourself and if you do manage to breed a bee that, with out any type of treatment, would only result in a 10-15% mortality rate through the year, I would be glad to buy one of those queens off you for what ever your asking price was, $10,000.00, $20,000.00, even $50,000. which would be reasonable since the hypothitical beek I talked about above would of spent well over $5,000,000 in time and effort and lost revenue over that 12 year period. But nothings garanteed eh?


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## Dave W (Aug 3, 2002)

MCC . . .

Where (or from whom) did you get your nuc last April?

FYI, September is a good time to "test" for T-mites, levels are high then.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

chillard willard said:


> for commercial beeks, if their hives were not treated for tracheal or varroa or nosema, a beek who makes his living with his bees (say 1500 colonies) could end up with a 80-90% loss the first year.
> 
> In 10-12 years you might just be able to get down to losing only 40-50%, but at what cost?


Since we were refering to Tracheal mite...In less than 5 years by selecting breeders that come from the strongest over wintered colonies in spring...you will have done away with the TM problems and it will become a minor pest. And 5 years is the outside limit...I would say it's more like 3.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>You could say the same thing about any other disease thats out there too 

I can, I would, and I have. If a hobbyist has just four hives and never treats and breeds from his own stock and let's them mate with local feral stock they will soon have much better stock than they can buy from breeders in another climate who treat for diseases. Yes, they will probably lose a few but probably less than if they keep buying non-resistant queens from another climate, and especially less than if they buy poorly mated early queens with no resistance from another climate.


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

*Treat your bees well.*

Formic acid treatments are extremely effective for TM.
At the same time, you will have a very good reduction in your varroa population and the bees clean up the hive in response that is thought to have other benificial effects.
Meanwhile you have time to investigate queens that are available.
Be careful about all of the hype.
For example, "feral stock" or "survivor stock" are two pitches that really throw up red flags.
Ask about lineage, traits, and hygenic test results.
I encourage scientific beekeeping; not superstition.


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## adamf (Jan 28, 2006)

*Re: Treat your bees well.*



HarryVanderpool said:


> Meanwhile you have time to investigate queens that are available.
> Be careful about all of the hype. For example, "feral stock" or "survivor stock" are two pitches that really throw up red flags. Ask about lineage, traits, and hygenic test results. I encourage scientific beekeeping; not superstition.


Yep. Good advice.
The breeder might even be testing their population using tests and assays you aren't familiar with. Interviewing a potential queen producer or queen breeder is good management. Remember that if they don't instantly respond, they're more than likely busy--try again and please, leave a message!



Adam Finkelstein
www.vpqueenbees.com


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## shadetreebeeman (Dec 4, 2009)

How do you use f-acid. I use oils for both mites. The paper towel method with wintergreen and veg. oil.This works for me but Im always open to other things that may work better or cheaoer.


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## chillardbee (May 26, 2005)

We started using Formic in our hives in 1990 when it was approved for treatment of tracheal mites. The varroa wasn't here yet and not knowing enough we didn't think it would work for the varroa as well when they were finally in our area around 92'. through most of the 90's we used formic and apistan to treat our hives. In anycase, the formic pads we used were the bounce paper towels, 3 sheets folded to about 4"x6" square that can hold up to 40ml of 65% formic acid. apply on a day when its not to hot. I use a 4 - 5 aplications in the spring and then again in the fall. mostly the formic is used for the varroa but it does a number on tracheal mites too.

Be forwarned like it was stated in previous posts about surviver stock. I don't doubt that there are bees the are resistant to mites or other diseases and that owning such bee is an asset to you personally, but genetics should only be a part of what you have planed for your IPM. I too, own and breed stock from "VSH" and along with my freind we have bred them. it's funny how they can still be suseptable to varroa. I don't think that they or any other bee would survive long with out being treated.


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

and let's them mate with local feral stock

And, where did the "Feral Stock" originate?

Ernie


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## BEES4U (Oct 10, 2007)

Be careful about all of the hype. For example, "feral stock" or "survivor stock" are two pitches that really throw up red flags

The above statement is very true.
I know of a person that is pushing the the "survivor stock" and buys his breeder queens in California?
Ernie


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

BEES4U said:


> I know of a person that is pushing the the "survivor stock" and buys his breeder queens in California?
> Ernie


& his bees.


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## JBJ (Jan 27, 2005)

"I know of a person that is pushing the the "survivor stock" and buys his breeder queens in California?"
Ernie 

"& his bees. " KJ

Not sure who you are referring to, but I do purchase the occasional breeder from Glenn's every four or five years to make daughters to mate with our drones here in Oregon, and yes I do get bees for stocking mating nucs on they way out of the Almonds. 

As to the "survivor stock" thing, yes there are a lot of Johnny come lately types, but there are many who are working in earnest to breed better bees. Look for the ones that have been in business a while and are doing some real science. 

According to a recent article, something like 37 genes have been identified associated with VSH and as we develop genetic markers and better testing protocols more breeding advances will be made.

Regardless of what one's opinion on whether it is possible to breed mite tolerant stock (and there are plenty on both sides of the fence) is it not a laudable goal, or is it just a "red flag" as Harry V put it???


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## Tara (Jun 17, 2010)

I've seen a lot of K wing in my hives lately, but only a single varroa on one drone for all my looking so far.

I thought K wing came from trachea mites damaging wing muscles so the smaller one swept foward. Is that actually due to varroa instead? 

I understand how hygenic behavior works against varroa--clean them off yourself, clean them off other bees, pull out larva that are infested. But what are the traits that make bees resistant to trachea mites? Is it just that the mites dont attack 'resistant' bees, or do the bees just not get damaged by them somehow??

Also, I just bought a load of menthol crystals to do the 30-day thing. Would putting them in the hive be a waste of my money, or should I just make my homemade Tiger Balm from the menthol?

Thanks,

~Tara


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## Velbert (Mar 19, 2006)

I would treat if you think it will save them then you can work on getting so that are more resistance.

The bees that are more resistant to TM are the ones the groom their selves have you watch bees how they will take their legs and go across there self. One that grooms it self often will knock them off 

when a young bee hatches the thorax is soft for the first 5 days (this is when the mite enters the bees) after 5 days the thorax it becomes hard and the mite cant get into the thorax of the bee to do its damage.


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## heaflaw (Feb 26, 2007)

Velbert,

Is this the same type of grooming that would get rid of varroa?


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## Tara (Jun 17, 2010)

Velbert said:


> The bees that are more resistant to TM are the ones the groom their selves have you watch bees how they will take their legs and go across there self. One that grooms it self often will knock them off
> 
> when a young bee hatches the thorax is soft for the first 5 days (this is when the mite enters the bees) after 5 days the thorax it becomes hard and the mite cant get into the thorax of the bee to do its damage.


Velbert, are you talking about trachea mites? The ones that live inside the trachea? I'm not asking about varroa, the ones that attach outside on the body like a tick.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Tara said:


> I've seen a lot of K wing in my hives lately, but only a single varroa on one drone for all my looking so far.
> 
> Also, I just bought a load of menthol crystals to do the 30-day thing. Would putting them in the hive be a waste of my money, or should I just make my homemade Tiger Balm from the menthol?
> 
> ...


K Wing is from a virus.

Menthol is a waste of time and money, but you've already bought it, so what else are you going to do w/ it. It can't hurt, as far as I know.


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## Velbert (Mar 19, 2006)

It is in part some of the same grooming that knocks off the V-Mite then some bees like the russian will bite the v-mite to kill it but some time the v-mite might get between the segments of the bees on their under side they may need help getting off by the other bees, also this grooming will help keep the T-Mite knock off and after the bees is 5 days old the thorax becomes hard and the T-mite cant boar the hole into them

Yes Menthol will kill the T-mites and the K wing is the result of the T-mite boring a hole into the thorax and damaging the wings muscle you are right on that Tara. Now the shrunken and shriveled wings are the result of a virus cause from the present of the mites V-mite


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## Tara (Jun 17, 2010)

Yeah, I hadn't seen any shrunken or shriveled wings, so I didn't think it was the varroa. Thanks a bunch Velbert!


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Velbert said:


> after the bees is 5 days old the thorax becomes hard and the T-mite cant boar the hole into them
> 
> Yes Menthol will kill the T-mites and the K wing is the result of the T-mite boring a hole into the thorax and damaging the wings muscle you are right on that Tara.


You have some interesting Theories there Velbert. Where did you get them from?

Tracheal mites don't bore holes into any exoskeleton part of the bee. They enter the prothoracic tracheal of the bee and suck the hemolymph of the bee from inside the trachea of the bee. After five days after the bee emerges the thorax may become hard, but it is the stiffening of the hairs on the bees body that make it hard for the tracheal mite to get into the trachea.

Deformed wing virus is associated w/ Varroa jacobsonii, not Acarapis woodii, the Tracheal mite.


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## Velbert (Mar 19, 2006)

sqkcrk said:


> You have some interesting Theories there Velbert. Where did you get them from? it's not my theory it is what i have read over the years it may have be a theory then
> 
> Tracheal mites don't bore holes into any exoskeleton part of the bee. They enter the prothoracic tracheal of the bee and suck the hemolymph of the bee from inside the trachea of the bee. After five days after the bee emerges the thorax may become hard, but it is the stiffening of the hairs on the bees body that make it hard for the tracheal mite to get into the trachea. never read that finding
> 
> Deformed wing virus is associated w/ Varroa jacobsonii, not Acarapis woodii, the Tracheal mite.


 I know that one. but was talking about the K wing it is when the wing stick out to one side or the other and the bee can not pull it in because when the Tracheal Mite entered it damaged the muscle, years back it was referred to as k wing


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## Velbert (Mar 19, 2006)

Talkiseases of the *honey bee* - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to *K*-*wing*‎: Actually "*K*" *wing* is a symptom of Tracheal mites, not Varroa mites and not DWV. A crumpled deformed wing is the sign of deformed *...*
Retarded - K-wing - Wax moths - Recent Vampire Mite Scare


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

It's a little of both. They don't bore through the side exactly. The tracheal mites enter at the first thoracic spiracle (which is the largest) and require a young bee because the mites don't quite fit. The soft chitin of a young bee can be chewed out the little bit that is required, while the chitin of an older bee is inflexible and tough. Apparently they can smell the difference in age and can use that ability to find the right host where grease patties seem to interfere with this ability.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Thanks Velbert and Michael, I learned something here that I thought I already knew, but was wrong about. Thank you.


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