# Efb



## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

To my way of thinking, EFB doesn’t get the attention it should. There’s a regular discussion of AFB, hive burning and such but I don’ see much on EFB. And yet EFB, in my experience, is much more common than AFB. This is fresh in my mind, as I was going through hives in an outyard this week for winter prep and found a number of hives with EFB like symptoms. Opening the first hive I noted the off smell. There has been a bit of goldenrod this season…but this smell is different. There is still some brooding in many of my hives and in these I saw a good number of tan/brown larvae. Spotty looking brood patterns in hives that just a month ago had solid looking brood. Anyway, I closed them up, put my hive tool in a baggie, washed my hands and took out a clean hive tool for my next yard. These were all package bees on new equipment this spring. I have a number of other hives from those same packages, in different yards that look fine. Oh well, it’s really too late in the season to do anything about it, in my opinion. Brooding will shut down soon, so we shall see how they look come spring.


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## LT (Aug 17, 2006)

We inspected a hive recently that had same symptoms. Put a new queen in. Will see what happens. Is Tylan effective? What are some other measures?


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## Myron Denny (Sep 27, 2009)

Have you tried mixing terramycin and powderd sugar and putting it on the top of the brood frames?


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

LT said:


> Put a new queen in. Will see what happens. Is Tylan effective? What are some other measures?


A new queen may help. It's so late in the season though, I'll wait until spring and if they are still sick/alive I'll likely do that. Tylan is probably effective. The bad side of Tylan is that it persists in the comb long after use. If you are going to use an antibiotic, I'd prefer terramycin. It tends to break down faster and is less contaminating. Sometimes doing nothing works. The bees clean it up themselves. I suspect that they were weakened by the mite treatments and the EFB got the upper hand.

Sometimes the cure is as bad as the disease. 
I'm sure I'll get some 'I told you so's' from the no treatment crowd.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Myron Denny said:


> Have you tried mixing terramycin and powderd sugar and putting it on the top of the brood frames?


I have done that in the past. Now that I'm CNG, it isn't allowed. Having said that, even in the past an antibiotic treatment was the last resort. I had some hives years ago that had a persistant EFB like disease. After a couple of seasons, trying everything, I finally pinched the queens, shook the bees all out in the yard, removed their old frames, put in new frames/foundation and new queens....and that was the end of that......which might be my solution this time if they are still ailing/alive come spring.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

I would pull the worst of it out if you can. If it's real spotty then not much you can do.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

They're pretty spotty Barry. The populations look good but many of those are summer bees, so it is hard to tell what the winter survival rate will be. Right now, I think the best thing I can do is cross my fingers.

Anyway, it just reminded me that EFB doesn't get much 'press' in these forums.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Wisconsin Department of Ag states that Tylan will NOT control EFB. I have cleared up some of my cases with Terramycin patties and feeding, but some just persist and I eventually melt down the effected combs. Didn't see it for 40 years and now have a few cases a year. 

http://datcp.wi.gov/uploads/Farms/pdf/Tylan.pdf


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

I agree Dan. I've had EFB once, but never AFB. I was able to spot it early, when it was on a total of three combs primarily, and pulled those combs out. Didn't treat and they pulled through. That was in the middle of the summer flow however.


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## Katharina (May 2, 2011)

This may be a little bit off the wagon, but worse mentioning. The is Hopguard mentioned in Scientific Beekeeping with the Foulbroods. Apparently BetaTec, the maker of Hopguard, is applying for patents using Hopguard for those conditions. Look like it effect these illnesses in a good way. No clue how it would work, but perhaps you give it a try and see, if indeed it helps.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Katharina said:


> The is Hopguard mentioned in Scientific Beekeeping with the Foulbroods.


News to me. Thanks for that.....I'll have to consider it.


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## Katharina (May 2, 2011)

Here is the link:
http://scientificbeekeeping.com/miticides-2011/



> Hopguard was introduced by BetaTec® Hop Products, a company that develops applications for hop products outside of the brewing industry. The thick brown liquid (the technical term is “gloopy”) is composed of “hop beta acids”—which are one of the components that give hops their aroma (as opposed to their bitterness, which is a property of the alpha acids). BetaTec had previously found that beta acids were effective against spider mites, so varroa were a natural extension. The company also found that the compound prevents the growth of AFB and EFB bacteria in the lab, and has filed two patents that I’ve found–for control varroa, AFB, EFB, chalkbrood, SHB, and wax moth.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

"The company also found that the compound prevents the growth of AFB and EFB bacteria in the lab"

Prevent is one thing. Don't think it's the same once you have it. Perhaps feeding the bees a real hoppy beer would work?


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

Yes I think the Hop Guard folks could be pushing things a bit on that one. In a lab, common salt would also prevent the growth of those bacteria.

No experience with efb as we don't have it here, but I certainly wouldn't rely on HG if one of my hives had afb.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Barry said:


> Perhaps feeding the bees a hoppy beer would work?


They're going to have to get their own.....


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Oldtimer said:


> Yes I think the Hop Guard folks could be pushing things a bit


I don't know anything about hopguard but I would expect the bees would have to consume it for it to be effective against efb. So, anyone in the know, do they eat the stuff?


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

I’ve thought about this a bit today and have decided on a course of action. Initially I was resigned to crossing my fingers but I think I’ll go one step further. This is painful for me to admit, but I’m going to take a page from Keith Jarret’s playbook. I’m going to give them a pollen sub in syrup. I can’t give them a sub patty since that will give the shb a nice place to lay eggs, so I’ll mix it in sugar syrup. If, indeed, they are weakened from the mite treatments, then maybe the addition of some protein etc will help. Now, this is against the CNG rules, so I won’t be able to harvest any CNG labeled honey from this yard. Anyone have an opinion?


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## Katharina (May 2, 2011)

I don't think Hopguard is the cure for all, but I see possibilities and it does not hurt to try things. That is how things get found out in the first place. The bees do chew down the strips, by doing that they will invitingly digest some of the hopguard. I have also seen bees licking the strips so I know they are getting it. So far my bees are very happy with the hopguard and the mites have been dropping nicely. I treat my bees 3 weeks in a row with adding new strips each week to get the capped brood. My strongest hives will dismantle the strips in one week. I know it is not the cheapest method, but it is easy on the bees and myself too.


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## Ted Kretschmann (Feb 2, 2011)

EFB in the early twientith century was scourge of beekeeping. It was widespread and caused many colony losses. The losses were so great that beekeepers even treated it the same as AFB-they burned the infected colonies. Recently there seems to be an uptick in EFB cases around the United States. Weather may play a factor, poor nutrition, mite infestations, and really bad genetics. While most cases of EFB will respond to TM, and it is not a spore forming bacterium, the worst cases we have had in years past, we just burned them. Too much aggrevation and too many other healthy colonies that needed management attention. So if you open your colony up and you get a whiff of what smells like rotten fish-you had better take a look. Chance are you will find a very bad case of EFB. TED


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## Robert Brenchley (Apr 23, 2000)

We take EFB more seriously this side of the Atlantic. It's a notifiable disease, and it's either treated officially by the bee inspector, with antibiotic and shaking onto new comb, or in a bad case the colony's burnt. The incidence has increased very considerably in recent years, so I wouldn't be surprised if the same's happening over there.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Ted Kretschmann said:


> Recently there seems to be an uptick in EFB cases around the United States. Weather may play a factor, poor nutrition, mite infestations, and really bad genetics. While most cases of EFB will respond to TM,


I wonder how much of the increase is caused by the use of Tylan...which doesn't control EFB. Many of the large migratory operations have to use Tylan because their AFB is resistant to TM. I spoke to one Florida mega-beekeeper about his antibiotic use and his nucs that get sent to New England. He swore up and down that no Tylan has been used in his operation and he follows the BMP of the state. I saw the inspection report...severely resistant to TM. So the nucs go the hobby beekeepers who never heard of Tylan...and they break down with AFB and EFB. No duh!


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## Makin' Honey (Sep 13, 2010)

Beemandan, I have had through the summer a hive or two and now I have about 30 hives with EFB like symptoms. I believe the brood in my hives looks more like the pictures Randy Oliver had in The American Bee Journal last year in his info on "Sick Bees".


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