# Newbie wanting to acquire my bees by swarm trap



## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

It is certainly worth setting out some swarm traps, but counting on catching a swarm can be a path to disappointment.


When I first started, I too read all those Beesource swarm threads, and built & set out 5 traps. I hived the (2) packages I had ordered, then 2 weeks later found a swarm had moved into one of those 5 traps. :thumbsup::thumbsup:  _Wow, this is easy_, he said!

So over the next winter I built 4 more traps. But for the last two springs I have no joy with any of those 9 traps. That first swarm has been the only one I have trapped over the past 3 years. :waiting:



Tip: make your traps such that they can serve a dual purpose - either as nucs or regular hive bodies. That way your efforts won't be wasted if you don't catch anything.


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## mrflegel (Mar 23, 2014)

I also had one swarm out of nine empty traps. Was worth putting them up even for the one. I think it came in to my box with motivation to make it and it has so far. But I wouldn't count on it to get your first bees. Swarms are kind of like mining you have to be where the ore is to get any.
An old deep hive body is what my swarm prefered.
mike


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## Kimkaseman (Dec 29, 2014)

Ok, thanks! I really don't like the idea of paying $100 a package for bees.


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## mtndewluvr (Oct 28, 2012)

Another option is to figure out how to get on local swarm call lists. I've only caught one swarm in a swarm trap over the last three years, but have averaged 12+ manual swarm captures (out of trees, etc.) over the last two years. I've got a few videos on my blog about how I catch them using a swarm pole. During the spring my car is always fully loaded so I can head out to a swarm call in a moment's notice. They aren't always still there by the time I arrive, or somebody's sprayed them, but more often than not I come home with a few pounds of bees. The best part is the opportunity to educate more people about bees.


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## Tim KS (May 9, 2014)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> It is certainly worth setting out some swarm traps, but counting on catching a swarm can be a path to disappointment.
> 
> *Tip: make your traps such that they can serve a dual purpose - either as nucs or regular hive bodies. That way your efforts won't be wasted if you don't catch anything.*


But, Rader, the effort will be wasted unless he decides to purchase bees.


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## Kimkaseman (Dec 29, 2014)

I'll check out your videos. I've never even kept bees. Will they allow me on a swarm list?


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## Kimkaseman (Dec 29, 2014)

I'm a she ... Why is it effortless if I get a swarm with the queen? Please explain, thanks.


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## Kimkaseman (Dec 29, 2014)

Watched one of your videos. That was awesome! Did you make the swarm catcher?


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## mtndewluvr (Oct 28, 2012)

Kim - I did make the swarm pole. It's very easy! The page titled Honey Bee Swarm Catcher Pole on my blog gives you an idea on how to make it. I got the idea from other youtubers who posted it well before I did.
http://jorgedenton.blogspot.com/2013/05/honeybee-swarm-catcher.html


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Kim, some _swarm trap_ reading for you ... 

http://ecommons.cornell.edu/bitstream/1813/2653/2/Bait Hives for Honey Bees.pdf


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## awebber96 (May 28, 2012)

Planning to start with a swarm is fine if you are okay with the idea of not starting beekeeping for a few years. Swarm catching is like fishing. Sometimes you can't pull them into the boat fast enough. Sometimes you spend all day without a nibble. Sure you might get lucky and get a swarm in 2015...or you might not. Are you okay with that possibility?

Even more frustrating, you might catch a swarm that is too small or too late in the fall to build up to last through winter. If you are in MN, you had better catch that swarm pretty early in the spring so that they have time to draw all that comb and fill it before winter.


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## Kenww (Apr 14, 2013)

I bought one colony of MN Hygenics two years ago. I also put up 5 swarm traps. Towards the end of July, I caught one swarm. Both hives survived the winter. The MNH died last summer. Not sure but I think I might have injured the queen. Didn't like the MNH anyway. Massive amount of bees when it got dry in the summer. Ate all their honey in no time. The swarm bees did great. Didn't have time to store much honey, but didn't have many bees to feed over the winter. When the other hive died, I did a walk away split. Both were great this fall. Light now so feeding sugar. I'd suggest buying bees for at least one hive, two if you can, but deffinitely trap too. It's fun. I didn't catch any last year. Use extra supers with plywood tops and bottoms.


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## cjfoster72 (May 30, 2013)

The swarm catcher pole is a great idea. After watching the videos and thinking about some of my challenges I experienced the first year I caught swarms, I have some ideas on possible design improvements. I'm not saying your design is bad by any means, but just thought I would share some thoughts based on my experiences.

Instead of attaching the water jug to the flag pole bracket, how about attaching a medium super that has a piece of plywood or OSB as a bottom? This would give you something a bit more solid to attach the flagpole bracket to - and - you would not have to dump the bees out of the super. You could simply add some frames and consider the swarm hived. This would be a nice step saver and reduce the chances of absconding. The less you have to disturb the bees by shaking them into a container and/or dumping them from one container to another, the better your chances that they will like the permanent home you are trying to get them to stay in.

If attaching a medium super to the flagpole bracket would end up being too heavy, perhaps try using a Jester's corrugated plastic EZ Nuc or a corrugated cardboard Nuc to lower the weight, but still be a container that you can insert frames directly into.

Kim - I agree with the reservations on buying packages. Why buy bees from California that have no genetic traits to survive a winter in Minnesota? Local feral bees are always the preference. On the other hand, if you really want to keep bees, it makes sense to get one or two packages your first year just to start getting the experience.


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## mtndewluvr (Oct 28, 2012)

CJ - If you don't have to extend the pole too far, you could put a medium on there, but that weight PLUS the weight of the bees may reach a tipping point. I've had a couple of swarms where I was 3/4 extended and was very concerned that the weight of the bees was going to fold the pole before I was able to get them to the ground.

I have considered using a lighter nuc box (cardboard) to bait with brood because sometimes the swarm gets wrapped around several branches of a tree making it very difficult to shake them out. If I could get the box close enough to the swarm, they may just walk right in...we'll have to see.

Please share how your improvements work in the future!


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## mrflegel (Mar 23, 2014)

I would suggest a nuk instead. You would get frames with comb and brood plus the bees. A package comes without anything for them to start on. Spend a few more dollars but you are way ahead.
Also plan to feed them at the start.
mike


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

Swarm traps are like fishing. Actually, except for the fish, they ARE fishing. A good location might yield several catches. Some locations will never result in any catches. If you want to have fish for supper tonight, it might be a good idea to go to the grocery store, but that shouldn't stop you from fishing...


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## Kimkaseman (Dec 29, 2014)

Ok, white all that being said, I want to trap swarms. But realistically looks like I'll also need to purchase bees. If I can only afford bees for 1 hive this year, is it best to wait til next year and save up money for 2 hives?


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

If you want to get started, then start with whatever you can afford. Get one and maybe you'll be able to split it (if it's a good year) and maybe not (if it's a poor to average year) and maybe you'll catch a swarm, but one way or the other you'll have some bees.


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## cjfoster72 (May 30, 2013)

Something else to consider - join a beekeeper's association if you have one in your area. The one I belong to has been good about helping new beekeepers get established. Some seasoned beekeepers have given new beekeepers entire hives to help them get started, or have given them swarms that they captured.

Good luck!


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## Kimkaseman (Dec 29, 2014)

On it, thx


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

"I'm I crazy??"

From your post, no.

"I just want to know if this is something that is within reality."

Catching bees in a swarm trap is within reality. Pay attention to details. 40 liter cavity. 10 or so feet high. 1 1/4" diameter round entrance facing south or southeast. Lemongrass oil, but no more 5 or 6 drops. Shade. In the last twelve months, we harvested 11 or so swarms from 10 traps. One box had 4 swarms (one of those moved in in late fall and is still there); 2 others had 3 each. Catching swarms is a lot of fun.

"Thanks ahead of time."

You're welcome.


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## RichardsonTX (Jul 3, 2011)

Kim, 

The least expensive way to get started with bees is to buy your protective gear, smoker, hive tool, brush, book called "The Hive and The Honey Bee" which is available at Dadant, hive body (bottom board, two deep, frames, foundation, division board feeder, lid), put the hive together yourself including giving it two coats of paint plus primer, and read from the book every day. After you are confident you can manage a hive then keep an eye out every day for posting on Craigslist for people wanting swarms removed (not cutouts). Or, buy a nuc hive from a local beekeeper who is careful to rear queens for his nucs from good stock. Then, make sure to feed your bees until they've grown into a healthy hive. You will also need to treat your bees for varroa mites unless you know they do not need to be treated which is highly unlikely. 

Keep records of your hive's progress and dedicate a certain amount of time every week for learning about bees, maintaining the health of your hives, rearing your own queens, and making up reserve nuc hives to keep your apiary sustainable. 

On the subject of robbing a little honey...........Rob only when you are confident it will not endanger the hive. Honey extracting using the crush and strain method is a sustainable method even though it destroys comb but its inexpensive and works for the hobby beekeeper. Bee clubs usually have an extractor you can use (this is the best method). A hand cranked extractor is usually best for 2-10 hives. A motorized extractor is best above 10 hives. 

Tips:
Don't keep bees just for the honey unless you like to pay a lot of money for your honey per lb. 
Keep bees if you are interested in bees. 
Don't try to make increase with cutouts. 
Learn from other beekeepers. Especially from the ones who've been repeatedly successful for a long time. But, don't be afraid to experiment yourself. 
Take time to assemble quality equipment and maintain it. Especially take care to maintain your frames with drawn comb and don't let the wax moths destroy them. 
Learn to rear your own queens from proven local stock. Or, buy queens from someone who raises them from proven local stock.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

>"I'm I crazy??"

You desire to have boxes of tens of thousands of stinging insects... is that a serious question?


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## rookie2531 (Jul 28, 2014)

Try to find a beekeeper who says, "Why do you mess with them, you don't mess with them out in the wild do you? Let bees be bees." and set up your traps near him/her yard.

And I say this because, I heard a beekeeper say this today.


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## Kimkaseman (Dec 29, 2014)

Thanks for the encouragement! I talked with a local bee keeper. He says the bee population here is so low that catching a swarm is unlikely! I still wanna try!


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## cjfoster72 (May 30, 2013)

And try you should! One of the first things I was told when I started looking into beekeeping was if you ask 3 beekeepers the same question, you will get 3 different answers. 

Two\ springs ago I got 7 or 8 swarm calls. Last spring I got 1. The common assumption around this area was that it was due to the severely hard winter we had last year. So far this winter has been much milder than last, and if it keeps it up, I'm hoping swarms will be more plentiful this spring. However, I'm also wondering if last winter's severity might take feral colonies several years to build back up thus taking another year or two before swarms are more common. All speculation...


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## archerman (May 19, 2014)

I have made up like 12 swarm traps for the spring. I may not catch anything but it is worth a try. I know of one colony in an old farm house but the owner won't let me on his property so a swarm trap across the line cant hurt anything. also 2 colonies in trees that I will be placing traps near by. If I don't get anything I have not lost anything but time as my boxes are egg boxes from the grocery store and the frame that holds then in the tree is built from old hard wood flooring that was in a barn when I bought my house some 18 years ago. I look at it as free bees.


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## jkingqm (Apr 13, 2015)

cjfoster72 said:


> One of the first things I was told when I started looking into beekeeping was if you ask 3 beekeepers the same question, you will get 3 different answers.


No, you will get 9 different answers. 6 of the answers will be contingent on your specific circumstances.


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## jkingqm (Apr 13, 2015)

Kimkaseman said:


> I just want to know if this is something that is within reality. If it is, then I'm willing to try it.


I had up to 11 catch boxes in three counties in n.e. OK and did not have any luck. You might have better success planning on retrieving a swarm that is hanging off someone's tree or car.

I did have success in catching a swarm off of a tree this spring so have had time to get it going strong before winter. Let everybody you know know that you are wanting to catch a swarm. Have a hive ready to house bees and have everything you need to retrieve a swarm ready to throw in the car. I let everyone on my Facebook know and also friends and family. When someone on Facebook posted a picture of a swarm and asked for help then people knew to refer me to her.

I would not recommend doing a cut-out, such as when the swarm has already hived up inside someone's wall or in a tree, unless you have extensive carpentry/wood cutting skills and tools.


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## whiskers (Aug 28, 2011)

Kim- that local beekeeper is a resource. Make friends, help if you can, and perhaps in the spring, when his bees start to boom he will sell, maybe even give, you a frame or two of bees to start a nuc. Ask if it's OK for you to put swarm traps near his yard.
Bill


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

Having a few frames of old black comb will help your trapping.


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## Colino (May 28, 2013)

Riverderwent said:


> Catching bees in a swarm trap is within reality. Pay attention to details. 40 liter cavity. 10 or so feet high. 1 1/4" diameter round entrance facing south or southeast. Lemongrass oil, but no more 5 or 6 drops. Shade. In the last twelve months, we harvested 11 or so swarms from 10 traps. One box had 4 swarms (one of those moved in in late fall and is still there); 2 others had 3 each. Catching swarms is a lot of fun.


Riverdewent gives some good advice, the only things I will add is try to put your traps near a source of water. Before I place traps in a new area I bait the area with a small portion of honey to see if there are bees in the area. I started beekeeping with 2 swarms I caught because it was too late in our season to buy bees. They didn't make the winter because they were caught too late in the year, however what I learned from those 2 swarms was invaluable. They taught me how to handle bees and what is what in a hive. Where I live is a bit of a bee desert so my trapping area is 5 to 10 miles away where there are commercial bee operations. If there are some of the commercial guys near enough try to buy some of their discarded boxes they make excellent traps. I pay $1 each for them and some need to be reinforced with scraps of plywood, but the inside is covered in old propolis and wax making them desirable to swarms. After putting an old brood comb and foundation-less frames in, I screw a piece of plywood top and bottom. Even though our swarm season is short I have managed to catch swarms every year since I started, this year I caught 3 for 8 traps.


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## aunt betty (May 4, 2015)

Kim, call this company and ask for a job.
You'll get bees, I promise.
This exterminator/bee guy is in your town. (sweet)
http://www.yellowpages.com/nationwi...life-pest-control-465209527?lid=1000124967015

It's that easy, just call the guy and wait by the phone for when he calls. He probably needs a helper who has a bee suit. Oh, the jobs he will take you to are going to be tough at times. If you can hack it, the rewards are huge.

Am blessed that I live in a city that has bees. The university has bees and their turnover rate on beeks is high so some years they lose swarms. I know right where to set traps because I know where the bees live. Caught at least 4 swarms from one location. Could not haul them off quickly enough before the next one moved in. You'll find that spot in your town too. It will be an old house that needs tons of repairs. Look for that house now, the one with the most code violations.


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## jadebees (May 9, 2013)

Done properly, your lure boxes can also catch more than 50%. I had 2 boxes that caught 2 swarms this year, after hiving the first colony. Also ,in one area, 5 of 6 boxes caught bees. Be prepared to buy or make boxes. I currently have 7 hives from traps alone. The smaller ones are being combined as I get to it , they were 11 or 12 colonies. I started over this year, with one mature hive. Be ready for sucess, if you are in a good area.


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## richr58 (Jul 23, 2014)

Kimkaseman said:


> Thanks for the encouragement! I talked with a local bee keeper. He says the bee population here is so low that catching a swarm is unlikely! I still wanna try!


Kim above all have fun, beekeeping for the backyard beek is a hobby so should be fun, fascinating, captivating, all consuming http://www.beesource.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif, but it is not free. 
Building traps will cost something, and you need a few. Do some research, look for bees from a close source, not clear across the country. 
I tried to keep track of the money spent to see if I could recover some, I am way behind, but I am still fascinating and captivated by bees. I built some traps and caught a late season swarm that I am attempting to build up for this winter.
Buy some bee, build some traps ( trapping should just be a part of the process ) Read everything you can get your hands on, buy book, borrow books from the Library but read read read, and get to know some local beekeepers if you can.

HAVE A BLAST


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## Jayoung21 (Jun 22, 2010)

I know this is an older thread but was curious if the OP ever got her bees? If not, here are a few things i recommend...

1. First off, when it comes to catching swarms, listen to odfrank... nuff said there...

2. 40 Liters for the trap and also the advice about multiple uses is good. I use 2 home made D Coates style 6 frame med nucs (I use all med). So, 12 frames and they are about 38ish liters.

3. Talk with the people in your local bee club. Somebody there will lend/give/sell you some old comb. Great for a lure. Also use a couple drops of lemongrass oil. Some put it on a q-tip in a plastic baggie inside the trap.

4. When someone says there are no feral bees around they probably don't know what they are talking about (about that particular subject). I live in NW Tennessee where there is nothing but corn, soy, and a few tree lines separating the fields. The company i work for bought a new field this year and had one of those tree lines bull dozed. In about 150 yds of tree line were 3 feral colonys. Wish i would have known about them first... 

5. The tip about setting out some honey to see if bees are around is a really good one. I would say take it a step farther and look into "bee lining" I've never done it myself but it looks like a good way to find a bee tree or two and looks like a lot of fun to boot.

6. If you do find a bee tree, look into doing a Hogan trap out. After being out of bees a couple years, this is how i got back in the game this year. Even starting a little too late in the year i pulled 3 starts from 1 tree. 2 are doing awesome and the third is small but still slowly growing. I plan on taking more out of the tree next year as well. The great thing about the Hogan method is you can take starts year after year from the same colony or you can actually lure out the queen and take the whole colony. You gotta have a brood frame though, again where your local bee club comes in. 

7. Yes, you are crazy for wanting to keep bees. As MB put it, boxes of 10's of thousands of stinging insects. I will add, not only that but you will spend waaaaaay too much money on them. Meds, feeds, tools, woodenware, gadgets, bees, etc etc. but if you are like me (and most of us on beesource) you will not regret one penny spent on some of the most amazing creatures on the planet. Welcome to beekeeping.


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