# Where to get small cell foundation



## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Did you try Dadant?

Crazy Roland


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## Buzz-kill (Aug 23, 2017)

Dadant small cell or MannLake pf100 or pf120 plastic frames.


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## Jadeguppy (Jul 19, 2017)

Thank you. Dadant looks like what I want. Bit pricy, but may be worth it in the deep.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Jadeguppy said:


> Thank you. Dadant looks like what I want. Bit pricy, but may be worth it in the deep.


keep in mind that Dadant small cell is wax foundation. If you've never worked with wax foundation it is a bit of a chore compared to plastic. There's probably a youtube video....check it out before you buy a load.


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## Jadeguppy (Jul 19, 2017)

Beemandan, this is what I looked at on dadant https://www.dadant.com/catalog/f46010sc-4-9mm-8-1-2-medium-brood-small-cell-foundation-c-10
It looks like plastic. Is it not? Is there somewhere selling plastic small cell foundation? Mann Lake is wax with hooks.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

If you are looking for ML 4.9mm (small cell) plastic foundation, deeps are PF-100:
https://www.mannlakeltd.com/9-1-8-23-18-cm-waxed-standard-plastic-frame-natural


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## Jadeguppy (Jul 19, 2017)

Rader, is buying a full plastic frame the only way to get 4.9 plastic foundation? I had hoped to use wooden frames.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Jadeguppy said:


> It looks like plastic. Is it not?


I'm certain that it is wax. 
I am not aware of anyone selling plastic 4.9 sheets for a wooden frame.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Some people cut off the frame (in pieces) from the PF- series and just use the remaining plastic foundation with (separately purchased) wood frames. Since the plastic frame part is thinner than wood would be, the remaining plastic foundation is enough 'oversized' that it can fit in the space in a wood frame similarly to the way wax foundation fits.

As far as I am aware, Dan is correct - there is no plastic 4.9 'foundation only' in the marketplace.


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## beehapiary (Jan 13, 2017)

Betterbee sells small cell wax foundation for wooden frames. I've never looked for plastic small cell.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

Mann Lake sells small cell wax foundation as well.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

When you buy small cell from anyone else but Dadant, turn the carton over and read where the box was made. You may be surprised.

Crazy Roland


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Let me guess, Made in China?


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## Jadeguppy (Jul 19, 2017)

I may just keep with no foundation on the deep.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

Box from Mann Lake is unlabeled except where the actual box was made....


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

The corrugated box manufacturer's certificate stamp is useful in getting a clue as to where the _contents_ were actually manufactured.

This is just a _sample_ certificate - its not from the box in question:







photo credit

Its rare for empty cartons to be manufactured very far away from the manufacturing location of the contents of that box.

There is a lot of "air" in corrugated cardboard itself, and shipping air is expensive, so that tends to make [unassembled] boxes from the closest box plant the most economical for the product manufacturer.

.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

I stared with ML PF 100s, they worked ok, can be hard for bees to draw them when there not a strong flow. Add extra wax to which plastic you decide. 

After I had a bunch of plastic drawn I went to foundationless.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> The corrugated box manufacturer's certificate stamp is useful in getting a clue as to where the _contents_ were actually manufactured.
> 
> This is just a _sample_ certificate - its not from the box in question:
> 
> ...


thanks Radar, so the question would be then, where does MannLake produce their foundation for distribution and where does Dadant??


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## John Davis (Apr 29, 2014)

FYI, all my boxes from Brushy Mountain say Saint Louis Missouri.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

St Louis MO is only 173 miles from Hamilton IL (home of Dadant). 

I suspect that _Roland_'s point in post #13 is that Dadant manufactures _all_ of that specific foundation product found in the marketplace - no matter who you may buy it from.

It works both ways - for example, Dadant sells "registered and EPA labeled" oxalic acid that Brushy Mtn produces. In fact, Brushy Mtn is, AFAIK, the _only_ producer of EPA registered oxalic acid.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

On the nose Rader, you nailed it.

Crazy Roland


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## Marti (Jun 29, 2014)

acorn sell 5.1 plastic and they go good with mannlake wooden frames


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## John Davis (Apr 29, 2014)

That's kind of what I thought but was looking for confirmation. Thanks


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## frustrateddrone (Jan 31, 2015)

My bees do a fine job at making it on the foundationless 1-1/4" wide frames I provide for them. If you want to come get about say....... 3 to 5 bees and ask them to teach your bees, that would be fine. Of coarse I would charge you one million US dollars per 10 seconds.


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

FTD, I'll cut your price in half and do the job for $500,000 and throw in a full nuc of bees with a queen. I'll make millions and you will be wondering what hit you.


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