# They don't even try to hide it.



## Colino (May 28, 2013)

I read the article below about how the Chinese are super filtering their honey so it can't be traced and putting another countries name on the bottle. 
http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2011/11/tests-show-most-store-honey-isnt-honey/#.VCn5J1ezHcw

I was in Super Store today and found this.







Looks like Chinese to me.







They say it's a blend of Canadian and Argentine honey but just happens to have Chinese on the label?
Colino


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## CityHoney (Aug 23, 2014)

Actually kinda old news.

There has been 100's of thousands of "honey" sitting on west coast docks since 2013, state of limbo, seized by the gov't. Chinese honey is illegal to ship into the U.S. for their use of certain insecticides/pesticides in their agriculture. This practice of "relabeling" has been going on for almost 2 decades now and has driven a large number of beekeepers out of business. They also "blend" their honey with extenders like HFCS or other sweeteners and chemicals to maximize profit.

Pollen is the only way to track where honey actually comes from.


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## kateowp (Aug 11, 2014)

Billy Bee does actually sell their (non Chinese) honey with a Chinese label.
http://www.billybee.ca/Products/Liquid-Honey/1-kg-Beehive-Chinese-Label.aspx


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## Colino (May 28, 2013)

kateowp said:


> Billy Bee does actually sell their (non Chinese) honey with a Chinese label.
> http://www.billybee.ca/Products/Liquid-Honey/1-kg-Beehive-Chinese-Label.aspx


I'm still skeptical. Can anyone out there read Chinese and tell us what the characters say on the label I posted?
Colino


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## waynesgarden (Jan 3, 2009)

Not unusual for a company to package and label their product for ethnic markets.

Ever seen a Spanish/English bilingual food label? 
Or a Hebrew/English label?

Wayne


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## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

Colino said:


> I'm still skeptical. Can anyone out there read Chinese and tell us what the characters say on the label I posted?
> Colino


Or is it just Superstore accommodation of Chinese customers???

My Superstore story is a plastic container of fermented honey. A tub of creamed honey was purchased from Superstore maybe a year and a half before we had our own honey. My wife went to get some seed honey from the container to make some creamed from our own. Tested moisture content and it was 20%. Container did have a best before date that had passed. 

What a sleazy business practice - Selling wet honey. Who knows if moisture was added to the honey, where it was produced, and what else was added????????????


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

Remember that most CUSTOMERS and therefore ALMOST ALL RE TAIL STORES consider crystalized honey spoiled. Heating and filtering is the best way to prevent crystalization. Many u.s. producers do this as well...and although it does obfuscate the origin and/or purity...the main reason it is done is so the honey doesn't get returned to the beekeeper/packer.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

If the creamed honey was partially liquid and you tested the liquid pprtion, it is not unusual for the liquid portion to be higher in moisture.....even if on the whole it is 17 % or so.

This often happens when creamed honey is stored in a cupboard with a light mounted to the bottom....even a flouresce.t light can warm the whole cupboard.....creamed honey will liquefy or partially liquefy at some temperature no matter what.




mgolden said:


> Or is it just Superstore accommodation of Chinese customers???
> 
> My Superstore story is a plastic container of fermented honey. A tub of creamed honey was purchased from Superstore maybe a year and a half before we had our own honey. My wife went to get some seed honey from the container to make some creamed from our own. Tested moisture content and it was 20%. Container did have a best before date that had passed.
> 
> What a sleazy business practice - Selling wet honey. Who knows if moisture was added to the honey, where it was produced, and what else was added????????????


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

Colino said:


> I'm still skeptical. Can anyone out there read Chinese and tell us what the characters say on the label I posted?
> Colino


Like most bi-lingual labeled product, I would imagine the Chinese characters say the same thing as the English words: Pure, Natural, Honey from Canada. No.1 White. 1 Kg. 

It's not like the Chinese characters are going to say something like: Ultra-filtered honey that has been adulterated with HFCS and contaminated with pesticides.


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## Dan. NY (Apr 15, 2011)

The Chinese is very close to the English. Something like Candas most popular milk honey, natural. If there is a large ethnic Chinese community might make sense. However... 

I spend a large amount of time in ethnic Chinese groceries and at times I look at the honey and compare prices, look where it comes from etc. I dont recall ever seeing honey labled from the states with both ENglish and Chinese. I do recall seeing Chinese only "honey" labels and commented that it was illegal to have. I also recall seeing something labeled as imitation honey and that was both in English and Chinese. It was not called imitation honey and i dont recall the terminology. Maybe sugar honey though I am drawing a blank. I will look next time I am in the store. I would not trust this product.


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## Knisely (Oct 26, 2013)

The top line (to the left of the Maple Leaf) reads 'Canada's Favorite Honey'.
The next line of characters (below pure, natural) reads 'Pure Natural Honey'.
After that, there are characters to indicate the package contains a kg of honey, and tells you who the wholesaler is.

The Chinese are well aware of the problems with their food supply and contamination. Having a honey source introduced to their market that is from abroad (just like powdered milk), may attract customers that would otherwise not buy the product. I don't doubt that there are shipments of Chinese honey that make it to this shore, but I don't think that this is one of them. The folks who own the BillyBee trademark would stand up for their product.


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## Colino (May 28, 2013)

Dan. NY said:


> The Chinese is very close to the English. Something like Candas most popular milk honey, natural. If there is a large ethnic Chinese community might make sense. However...
> 
> I spend a large amount of time in ethnic Chinese groceries and at times I look at the honey and compare prices, look where it comes from etc. I dont recall ever seeing honey labled from the states with both ENglish and Chinese. I do recall seeing Chinese only "honey" labels and commented that it was illegal to have. I also recall seeing something labeled as imitation honey and that was both in English and Chinese. It was not called imitation honey and i dont recall the terminology. Maybe sugar honey though I am drawing a blank. I will look next time I am in the store. I would not trust this product.





Knisely said:


> The top line (to the left of the Maple Leaf) reads 'Canada's Favorite Honey'.
> The next line of characters (below pure, natural) reads 'Pure Natural Honey'.
> After that, there are characters to indicate the package contains a kg of honey, and tells you who the wholesaler is.
> 
> The Chinese are well aware of the problems with their food supply and contamination. Having a honey source introduced to their market that is from abroad (just like powdered milk), may attract customers that would otherwise not buy the product. I don't doubt that there are shipments of Chinese honey that make it to this shore, but I don't think that this is one of them. The folks who own the BillyBee trademark would stand up for their product.


Thanks for the translations. The reason I'm so skeptical is because we have companies in Canada who are sending their raw products to China for processing and then have product of Canada on the label. We have no way of knowing what has been processed in China where they have put melamine in baby formula and pesticide use is so rampant it has killed all the pollinators.
Colino


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## Haraga (Sep 12, 2011)

"Killed all the pollinators"? Please expand Colino.


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## rwlaw (May 4, 2009)

They had a thread a while back, where the Chinese were using poeple w/ feathers to pollinate fruit trees.


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## Haraga (Sep 12, 2011)

Umm ya, don't believe everything you read. The Chinese are not out of the bee business yet.


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## Colino (May 28, 2013)

Haraga said:


> "Killed all the pollinators"? Please expand Colino.


I watched a documentary where in China the birds were eating their crops, so they killed all the birds which in turn caused an explosion in insect populations. So to combat the insects they used huge amounts of pesticides to the point where it can't support insects in those areas. They literally have to pollinate by hand because bees can't live there and all the natural pollinators are dead. You can find the link to the documentary in the thread below.
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?303858-Video-Movie-quot-More-Than-Honey-quot


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## bbruff22 (Dec 24, 2013)

Knisely said:


> The top line (to the left of the Maple Leaf) reads 'Canada's Favorite Honey'.
> The next line of characters (below pure, natural) reads 'Pure Natural Honey'.
> After that, there are characters to indicate the package contains a kg of honey, and tells you who the wholesaler is.
> 
> The Chinese are well aware of the problems with their food supply and contamination. Having a honey source introduced to their market that is from abroad (just like powdered milk), may attract customers that would otherwise not buy the product. I don't doubt that there are shipments of Chinese honey that make it to this shore, but I don't think that this is one of them. The folks who own the BillyBee trademark would stand up for their product.


Dead on statement...The Chinese are buying this honey, not sending it back. I've been there twice and spent over a month total. They, the affluent Chinese, buy anything with western trademarks. The Billy Bee label alone, and knowing it's from Canada, would make it a big seller to those able to afford it.


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## Colino (May 28, 2013)

bbruff22 said:


> Dead on statement...The Chinese are buying this honey, not sending it back. I've been there twice and spent over a month total. They, the affluent Chinese, buy anything with western trademarks. The Billy Bee label alone, and knowing it's from Canada, would make it a big seller to those able to afford it.


Still doesn't explain why there is Chinese labeling on Canadian store shelves. And not just the shelves this product had a big floor display too. So it wasn't for an ethnic market. I'm staying clear of anything that has to be ingested or applied topically if it is produced or processed in China. It is just my way of protecting my health but it is getting harder to do because there are more of these types of products coming into our stores every year and no way to discriminate where they're from. I've started an email campaign to inform my MLA and my MP about this issue to try to get them to move on legislation that would give transparency to where products are from. I could use some help.
Colino


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## Haraga (Sep 12, 2011)

Colino you obviously don't have enough hives if you have time to spend emailing spineless weasel politicians. And no I will not be joining you on the emailing campaign as my day started at 3:00 am and the extractor is spinning right now. Keep in mind that china is a vast country and they obviously still have bees. The bottom line the honey company is targeting the domestic Chinese. I love billy bee honey. I let the customer taste the billy and then I let them taste mine and then my kid collects the honey money.


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## Colino (May 28, 2013)

Haraga said:


> Colino you obviously don't have enough hives if you have time to spend emailing spineless weasel politicians. And no I will not be joining you on the emailing campaign as my day started at 3:00 am and the extractor is spinning right now. Keep in mind that china is a vast country and they obviously still have bees. The bottom line the honey company is targeting the domestic Chinese. I love billy bee honey. I let the customer taste the billy and then I let them taste mine and then my kid collects the honey money.


I'm fully aware that China still has Bees, I specifically said "in those areas". 
Colino


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## Haraga (Sep 12, 2011)

Colino said:


> Thanks for the translations. The reason I'm so skeptical is because we have companies in Canada who are sending their raw products to China for processing and then have product of Canada on the label. We have no way of knowing what has been processed in China where they have put melamine in baby formula and pesticide use is so rampant it has killed all the pollinators.
> Colino


Yes Colino but you originally stated in your last sentence of this post that china has killed all the pollinators. We're you sensationalizing ?


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## Colino (May 28, 2013)

Haraga said:


> Yes Colino but you originally stated in your last sentence of this post that china has killed all the pollinators. We're you sensationalizing ?


Ok you win, I forgot to add in certain areas. :applause:
Colino


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

Colino said:


> Still doesn't explain why there is Chinese labeling on Canadian store shelves. And not just the shelves this product had a big floor display too. So it wasn't for an ethnic market.


There is Chinese/English labeling on some honey that is sold in North America. Just as there is French/English labeling in Quebec, Spanish/English labeling in the US, and even Farsi/English labeling in Dearborn, Michigan. It completely baffles me as to why you don't understand this. Even more disturbing is that you seem to think that this is a conspiracy of some sort.


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## Haraga (Sep 12, 2011)

Nabber, there is French English label in Canada because the Quebecers demanded it and it is now law. If the people could choose, Quebec would only be in French and the rest of the country would be in English.


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## Colino (May 28, 2013)

Nabber86 said:


> There is Chinese/English labeling on some honey that is sold in North America. Just as there is French/English labeling in Quebec, Spanish/English labeling in the US, and even Farsi/English labeling in Dearborn, Michigan. It completely baffles me as to why you don't understand this. Even more disturbing is that you seem to think that this is a conspiracy of some sort.


Nabber:
I don't think it's a conspiracy it's a lack of knowledge of what products are from China and an inability to find out. And trust me I know about dual language labeling because I grew up in Canada where we have 2 official languages.
Colino


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

Colino said:


> Nabber:
> I don't think it's a conspiracy it's a lack of knowledge of what products are from China and an inability to find out. And trust me I know about dual language labeling because I grew up in Canada where we have 2 official languages. Colino


But why then did you say, "_Still doesn't explain why there is Chinese labeling on Canadian store shelves_"?

There is Chinese labeling because thy are trying to attract Chinese costumers. 

Your whole argument sounds like a ******* saying, "Why to I have to press 1 for English? This is 'Murica dammit!".


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## Colino (May 28, 2013)

Nabber86 said:


> But why then did you say, "_Still doesn't explain why there is Chinese labeling on Canadian store shelves_"?
> 
> There is Chinese labeling because thy are trying to attract Chinese costumers.
> 
> Your whole argument sounds like a ******* saying, "Why to I have to press 1 for English? This is 'Murica dammit!".


I think you're reading too much into it. I'm just frustrated is all.
Colino


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## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

Colino said:


> Still doesn't explain why there is Chinese labeling on Canadian store shelves.


Have you ever gone shopping in Richmond BC? There are two large malls, where all of the signage is in chinese, and most of the products on the shelves are labelled in chinese. Walk thru Superstore in Richmond, and there are aisles full of labels with english/mandarin labels. My guess, Loblaws bought a bunch of honey labelled that way, and it went to stores out west, some of which ended up in Edmonton at the Superstore. Walk into the T&T market, you are quite likely to find the exact same product, but with labels in Mandarin, without any english at all.

Go to almost any ATM machine in the Richmond area, and much of the lower mainland, you get 3 options of language, English, French and Mandarin. That's because the banks know full well, not only does honey come from China, but that's where most of the money comes from too.


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## Colino (May 28, 2013)

grozzie2 said:


> Have you ever gone shopping in Richmond BC? There are two large malls, where all of the signage is in chinese, and most of the products on the shelves are labelled in chinese. Walk thru Superstore in Richmond, and there are aisles full of labels with english/mandarin labels. My guess, Loblaws bought a bunch of honey labelled that way, and it went to stores out west, some of which ended up in Edmonton at the Superstore. Walk into the T&T market, you are quite likely to find the exact same product, but with labels in Mandarin, without any english at all.
> 
> Go to almost any ATM machine in the Richmond area, and much of the lower mainland, you get 3 options of language, English, French and Mandarin. That's because the banks know full well, not only does honey come from China, but that's where most of the money comes from too.


I wasn't aware of that. Is it because of the influx of all those Hong Kong folks?
Colino


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## bugmeister (Feb 26, 2013)

i think literally translated it read ' buy local"!


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## Bees of SC (Apr 12, 2013)

I like to give a print out of Food Safety News to people that buy my honey or nuc..They need to know.....


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## Colino (May 28, 2013)

Bees of SC said:


> I like to give a print out of Food Safety News to people that buy my honey or nuc..They need to know.....


That's a good way to do it. People need to know where their food comes from. Since I started this thread I've continued to contact my government representatives about there being a lack of labeling telling where foods are processed and now I've noticed that some of the foods which were labeling that they were Chinese have had that removed and only state who the Canadian importer is.


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## hex0rz (Jan 14, 2014)

As this thread is dug up from the grave and skimming the OP article I cant stop but ask myself how pointless it seems. Someone tell me who in their right mind could ever rely on the idea that presence of pollen in honey verifies its real? Let me take some sugar syrup and give it a honey flavor. Now, let me take some pollen I collected and mix it into it. Voila! I have honey. NOT SO!

The idea of filtration is one I would not get so crazy about as I would enjoy pollen in my honey. But lets not get distracted here. Why are honey samples not being verified in the lab to authenticate its the real deal? Use Near-infrared spectroscopy to verify that honey is honey and not some crappy liquid branded as such.. I find it to be too easy to make fake liquid into honey by just adding pollen...

There has to be more to it than just verifying the presence of pollen!


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## Bees of SC (Apr 12, 2013)

Read it again, pollen is just a small part of the article


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## Colino (May 28, 2013)

hex0rz said:


> As this thread is dug up from the grave and skimming the OP article I cant stop but ask myself how pointless it seems. Someone tell me who in their right mind could ever rely on the idea that presence of pollen in honey verifies its real? Let me take some sugar syrup and give it a honey flavor. Now, let me take some pollen I collected and mix it into it. Voila! I have honey. NOT SO!


You are totally missing the point of what the article implies. The Chinese are removing the pollen so it can't be traced back to them because some of their honey is contaminated. From the article:


> Ultra filtering is a high-tech procedure where honey is heated, sometimes watered down and then forced at high pressure through extremely small filters to remove pollen, which is the only foolproof sign identifying the source of the honey. It is a spin-off of a technique refined by the Chinese, who have illegally dumped tons of their honey – some containing illegal antibiotics – on the U.S. market for years.


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## Bees of SC (Apr 12, 2013)

I read on beesource last week about someone saying the chinese was wanting to buy pollen from the USA. Any one remember that?


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## hex0rz (Jan 14, 2014)

I did read the article again. And still I seem to catch is that pollen is the criteria for determining if said liquid is honey or not. Some guy sells USA pollen to chinese. Chinese then add said USA pollen to fake honey or bad honey. Honey is tested, honey shows source is from USA since pollen was US based. Not good way of determining honey quality, purity or origin.

A product should undergo a slew of different tests to show that it is indeed as advertised. As I stated above, starting with NIR spectroscopy would be a good start...

As far as what the chinese are doing to their honey, I think we should ban all import of honey! How about that for national demand?!


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

But US honey producers ultra-filtered honey according to several sources:

http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2011/11/25/142659547/relax-folks-it-really-is-honey-after-all

http://www.honey.com/faq/

http://www.dadant.com/news/the-nati...ies-confusion-over-pollen-and-ultrafiltration

We have to assume that not all of the honey packers are using Chinese honey. How would testing prove source of origin? Also most of the concern on the Federal level seems to be with Chinese dumping honey to avoid high tariffs, not necessarily the Chinese trying to dump fake or adulterated honey on the US market. Reputable producers want to keep Chinese honey out of the US market because it lowers the price of honey. That makes me wonder how much of the "Chinese fake or adulterated honey scare" is being pushed by US honey producers trying to keep their turf and keep honey prices high (and rightfully so). 

I don't see how testing is going to help the situation. The issue seems more of a protectionism policy, rather than a honey contamination problem. The Feds just need to do a better job at tracking the origin of imported honey.


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