# wire vs fishing line for foundation support in frames



## AHudd (Mar 5, 2015)

I have never used fishing line for support in my frames, always wire. I have fished quite a bit and I know how hard it is to set the hook due to stretch in the line.
I don't heat the wire either. I use an embedding/crimping tool. The brass eyelets help me quite a bit by keeping the wire from digging into the wood.
I have never used bobby pins in my hives or hair. I think some use them to install plastic foundation in conventional frames.

Alex


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

Fishing line is a bit easier to use. When I decided to wire my own frames I found that it stretched a little too much for my taste. However, once the foundation got drawn out it seemed fine. I decided to use wire so that I could embed it. At first, I used the eyelets and that worked pretty good. One day, I ran out of eyelets so I just pulled the wire tighter (to let it dig into the frame a little) and then I embedded it. Seemed to work fine as well. Nowadays, I use wire....no eyelets and I embed with a small battery charger attached to a floor switch so that I can just turn the juice on and off while using my hands to gently press down on the foundation. I use a foundation form board too by the way which really helps. 

When I used deep frames, I used the frame pins to help hold the thin foundation relatively straight while the bees built the comb out. Especially on deep frames, the foundation had a tendency to sag or get wavy until the bees did their thing. Once the comb got drawn they don't matter quite so much.


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## Jim Brewster (Dec 17, 2014)

Fatbeeman has a good video on tightening fishing line by winding it around a small nail on the side of the endbar. You should check it out. I used his method when I had to rescue some loose comb they had built when I had a bucket feeder directly on the top bars. (It will be going on an inner cover from now on...)


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## crocodilu911 (Apr 17, 2015)

exmar said:


> Have some frames that I'll be putting foundation in. After watching videos on line had decided that using fishing line (which I have) seems the best way to go for me. Also watched videos using wire (which I now have after buying a bunch of stuff from a beekeeper who retired) and understand that also. What are the pros and cons of each? Why does the wire have to be heated to be melted or imbeded into the foundation? Fishing line doesn't get imbedded and just seems easier.
> 
> Also, are the large and medium (don't have any smalls) frames wired similarly for support, obviously less holes in the medium. And what's with the "bobby pin" is that in addition or in lieu of wiring?
> 
> ...


i know there will always be pro and cons for metal wire or fishing wire. depends what you do with it i say.
i used metal wire all my life, so did my dad and uncles. you need that rigid support of the frame, and i do not think fishing wire does it.


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

Pros and cons to each, but I use wire. A bit more work, but the bees cannot cut it, and they will sometimes cut nylon fishing line. Worse in foundationless frames. they will also sometimes leave the comb undrawn around the wires if they are not embedded in the wax, again worse with fishing line.

I have not found pins to be very helpful with wired foundation, the wire has some curvature from being on a spool, and if the bees are slow to draw the comb out, it can warp badly, to the point of falling out of the frame, just tears around the pins or bobby pin. 

If you need to remove the comb due to wax moths or general degredation, with a bit of care you can leave the wire in place and just re-use it. Don't know about nylon fishing line.

Peter


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## exmar (Apr 30, 2015)

Thanks for all the responses. Guess it's wire. 

>Jim Brewster, I saw that FBM video and that got me interested in fishing line. I may do a couple that way and compare the result. 

Speaking of FBM, he talks about having tamer bees, and have seen him doing some "unreal" stuff with his bees. He was looking for the queen and was using his figertips to spread out heaps of bees and they could care less. OK, I'm new to this, but doubt my bees would put up with that. 

Thanks again,

Ev


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## flyin-lowe (May 15, 2014)

Some people just don't get stung. You'll notice the smirk he has whenever he mentions tame or stingless bees. JP the beeman on youtube is the same way, rarely if ever getting stung doing cut outs and trap outs. I walked up with 5 feet of a hive in a locust tree today just to check and see the entrance location and one tagged me on the head.


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## Jim Brewster (Dec 17, 2014)

exmar said:


> Thanks for all the responses. Guess it's wire.
> 
> >Jim Brewster, I saw that FBM video and that got me interested in fishing line. I may do a couple that way and compare the result.
> 
> ...


I may be one of those lucky ones. Just starting out, and I'm surprised how mellow my bees are. I have gloves but haven't used them once. I've used my fingers to brush them aside and they haven't shown any aggression. I've only been stung when I accidentally put my finger down on a bee and trapped it, but haven't had other bees pick up on the alarm pheromone and attack (maybe it's the smoke). I've had guard bees buzz around my head, but if I back up slowly and don't swipe at them they back down. Where I draw the line is I won't open a hive without smoke and a veil. Don't want to push my luck too much! 

Of course I haven't experienced a really big strong colony, or a dearth yet, so I'm not assuming it will always be this easy. But I'm grateful for such an pleasant introduction to working hives.


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

flyin-lowe said:


> Some people just don't get stung. You'll notice the smirk he has whenever he mentions tame or stingless bees.


flyin-lowe, I've got those stingless bees too.

Actually I don't think there are people who don't get stung, I just think there are people, like myself, that don't care if they get stung or not. Either that, or they've been stung so many times, again like me, that stinging has very little if any effect on them. I don't mind getting stung, but I don't like getting stung on the face. One day I'm going to get a veil and stop using my jacket. It's a ventilated jacked, but it's still too hot. I think bees can sense whether a person is nervous or not. If I go in a hive timidly and think I'm gonna get stung, I get stung. If I go in the hives with no thoughts about stinging and work with ninja like precision, I get stung, but not nearly as often and sometimes not at all.

When I work more hives later today, I'll either glove up or get nailed multiple times. Our flow is down to a trickle, I'm tearing down 2 very strong triple deep nucs to make a queen starter and the wind is screaming. Sometimes, you've got to know when to hold em, know when to fold em, know when to walk away, know when to glove....


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

Jim Brewster said:


> I may be one of those lucky ones. Just starting out, and I'm surprised how mellow my bees are. I have gloves but haven't used them once. I've used my fingers to brush them aside and they haven't shown any aggression. I've only been stung when I accidentally put my finger down on a bee and trapped it, but haven't had other bees pick up on the alarm pheromone and attack (maybe it's the smoke). I've had guard bees buzz around my head, but if I back up slowly and don't swipe at them they back down. Where I draw the line is I won't open a hive without smoke and a veil. Don't want to push my luck too much!
> 
> Of course I haven't experienced a really big strong colony, or a dearth yet, so I'm not assuming it will always be this easy. But I'm grateful for such an pleasant introduction to working hives.


Oh yeah, you're gonna get it. LOL I told a guy when I first started keeping bees, like the first week, that I had never been stung by a honey bee (which was true at the time) and I didn't think they would sting me. (which was naive, or plain stupid) I lived the good life for about 3 weeks, then I got "eat up" by a hive that a cow had knocked sideways. 15-20 stings. That was 3 years and 200 stings ago.


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