# Honey house gutter



## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

The topic of a wash out floor gutter has come up from time to time here, 

Id like to get some feed back on the type of floor gutter you guys have in your honey house. 
Do you like what you have? Would you change anything? How does it discharge and clean out? And discharge into what or where?

Thanks


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## soupcan (Jan 2, 2005)

I would not want to build a new honey house or do a remodel here in the states with an open floor gutter as you call it.
I believe some states call this an open sewer & not a sealed drain system!


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

I have seen the open gutter systems even in newer honeyhouses but they strike me as a problem to keep clean, it would take a lot of water flushing to keep them from stinking I would think. If you choose such a set up the preferred method is to use an inverted and removable "street el" that plugs into your drain pipe. This allows the majority of the liquid to drain away, then scoop out the wax and debris and remove the elbow upon final cleanup. I would probably go with a large floor drain trap that you can get with a removable strainer built in them. The good ones are stainless and are kind of pricey.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Jim, how many floor drains do you have in you facility ?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

soupcan said:


> I would not want to build a new honey house or do a remodel here in the states with an open floor gutter as you call it.
> I believe some states call this an open sewer & not a sealed drain system!


I dont understand what you mean, it is not conected to the sewer, its covered with an some sort of a grated floor covering


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## soupcan (Jan 2, 2005)

We built a new honey plant 4 years ago & the building provider, cement foreman, & plumber all advised "we will build it the way you want it but" they all advised against an open grate floor drain system.
All floor drains must be connected to the septic system, wash down water can not just be drained to the out side of the building ( open discharge ) it must go thru the sewer system. Yes the open gutter floor drain would go thru a trap to seal it from the main line & I had the same idea Jim had & that was to have the floor system fill & then pull a plug for a flushing effect.
The plumbers that did the septic system have been in business over 50 years & so I thought it best to follow there advice.


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Ian said:


> Jim, how many floor drains do you have in you facility ?


We have 5 in about 3,000 sq. feet. I dont think it takes many if they are well placed.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

according to our CFIA regulations we can not have the floor drain system hitched to the sewer. 
How do you have your floor drains plumbed in? Into the sewer or into a separate holding tank?

I was planning on a controlled surface discharge, or a separate holding tank discharge system either way I go.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

alot of guys I know have their floor drains or gutters drain into the grass beside the honey house


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

jim lyon said:


> I have seen the open gutter systems even in newer honeyhouses but they strike me as a problem to keep clean, it would take a lot of water flushing to keep them from stinking I would think.


ya, Im starting to think that way also. Good point. another clean out job for the day doesnt really strike my fancy


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Ian said:


> alot of guys I know have their floor drains or gutters drain into the grass beside the honey house


I would think that would be a local issue.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

I have a drain system in my honey house right now, and it has kinda gotten me turned off of it. The wax plugs the pipes all the time, but then again, my drain pipes are way too small. Jim, I would expect you have a 2 or 3 inch drain pipe?


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

jim lyon said:


> I would think that would be a local issue.


yes, very much so


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## BMAC (Jun 23, 2009)

Ian said:


> I have a drain system in my honey house right now, and it has kinda gotten me turned off of it. The wax plugs the pipes all the time, but then again, my drain pipes are way too small. Jim, I would expect you have a 2 or 3 inch drain pipe?


I dont have any drains in my current honey house but thought about it for the new honey house I will be soon working on. I thought 3 inch would be minimum with maybe up to 5 inch diameter.


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## soupcan (Jan 2, 2005)

Drain system goes into the 3 inch main line & that inturn goes into a 1000 gallon septic tank.
This then drains into 100 foot of clam shell laterals when the tank is full.
It was a lot of money spent but it's done right the 1st time to local, state & federal codes & no need to worry about it years down the road!


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

how do you handle the wax in the 1000 gallon tank? Typically septic tanks are designed for settling debris, wax does float. How do you manage the drain line baffels ?


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Ian said:


> according to our CFIA regulations we can not have the floor drain system hitched to the sewer.





Ian said:


> alot of guys I know have their floor drains or gutters drain into the grass beside the honey house


Funny how different things are from one place to another. Here…any sort of open discharge is illegal. Of course, anything coming out of a honeyhouse would be safe…but the health department here makes no distinction between the debris washed from a honey house floor and the product of a flushed toilet.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

The reason for not having cleaning lines attached to sewer lines is in case of back up. They do not want sewer backing into the processing facility.

Im still working in the grey area as far as the wash water discharge is concerned. Like I have said many discharge into the grass outside the facility, and are fully registered with CFIA but according to the plumbing permit, if I follow that route, wash water has to be contained and discharged in a controlled fashion.


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## soupcan (Jan 2, 2005)

Septic tank has a 12" man hole cover and the last time I checked I did not see a problem.
My son ads Ridex every year so maybe that is the key as far as the septic tank but we do scrape the floor 1st & then wash it so not a lot of wax goes into the drain. My son gets upset with me when I wash drip pallets in the sinks and allow all the wax to run into the system.
As far as a system backing up into the building the laterals being in proper working order will handle many a gallon of water & then this is why the septic tank has a man hole cover on it for pumping & visual inspections.


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## Birds&Bees (Feb 26, 2009)

Install a back-up prevention valve, 3 inch drains, should be no problem, if you don't put in the back up valve, just tell Sam you did, how is he going to know?


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## doc25 (Mar 9, 2007)

Ian, I believe you're a member of the COOP. If so is it the COOP that requires you to have a CFIA honey house?


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## soupcan (Jan 2, 2005)

They will check it with a camera!!!


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

We may our drain, 80 feet long 1.5% fall on floor & 2% fall on drain. Cost... extra 5 hours of grading & forming. Clean up... put a square point shovel once or twice a year and shovel out the debree also use a 6 incg drain under the concrete floor.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

Birds&Bees said:


> Install a back-up prevention valve, 3 inch drains, should be no problem, if you don't put in the back up valve, just tell Sam you did, how is he going to know?


ha ha ha, well, ya . Just going by what he told me, floor wash drains separate from sewer.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

just toured a honey house with a gutter just like yours Keith. He is very happy with it and I am thinking this is the way to go. Easy to sweep into, easy to clean. Beats the drains, I think. Not completely decided on it yet.

Doc25, the coop requires registration by 2014.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

My small extracting room has one 8"X8" CI grate connected to a 3" or 4" drain. It was existing in my building partially built and connected to the municipal sewer. I plumbed in 4 - 3" elbows as a goose neck to stop sewer fumes and have had little clogging problems with it since 1979. I flush it with hot water frequently. I had to line the terracotta main this year due to roots about 100' away from the extracting room. I grew the culprit eucalyptus tree from seed and it will cost me a fortune before I head to the big guys apiary in the sky. 
That is if I don't head down to the other guys place.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

ha ha ha

od frank, I have been email a picture of a grate much of what you have described. Very slick, and a nice compromise between the long gutter and the floor drain.


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## Ian (Jan 16, 2003)

>>Hi Ian!

I saw your question on beesource about "Honey house gutter."
I have a extracting room with a gutter centered in the middle of the room.
Might take some better pictures of how the stainless steel drains / (gutter) look if you're interested. I think it works as expected.
You can find more information here:
http://www.purus.se/gl/Products/channels/

I am very impressed with your blog and what you write on it.

Hope it can be helpful.

Can you also link to www.agreb.se
I hope that in the near future to have the page in English.

Cheers!


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## Allen Martens (Jan 13, 2007)

I have 6 foot gutters in the extracting room and the hot room. The one in the extracting room is located about 4 feet from the extractor running parallel to the extractor. If I were to redo my extracting line I would seriously consider putting in under the extracting line. Cleaning out the gutter would be more difficult but I only do so a couple of times a season anyway. I would probably put it a little off centre so it wasn't directly underneath the auger. This location would make wash downs done during the day easier I think. A longer gutter in the extracting room would make cleanup quicker and easier -- especially spot cleans.

In the hot room the gutter is in the middle of the room. We use the centre of the hot room for traffic and store the full supers on each side. Makes for very easy clean up.

I didn't put a drain under the spin float and greatly regret not doing so. I'm squeegeeing water a long way when cleaning that area.

My gutters are only about 1/2 an inch deeper than the drain outlet. The drains are 3 inch and lead to a sump. The wash basin by the extractor drains into the sump as well. I get quite a bit of wax in my sump so the pump has to be positioned right so it does not clog. The wax gets skimmed periodically. Initially I pumped to water into my septic tank, but after I clogged a check valve in the sewer line I just pumped it straight outside (right to the site of my ejector anyway).

Drains would work well too I imagine but it is nice to be able to squeegee to something bigger like a gutter.


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## MDS (Jan 9, 2011)

Might want to research products and configurations used in city owned dog shelters for ideas. Floor coverings, drains, moisture control, ventilation, wall or baseboard products. I've been involved in building a few and if you can find a set of prints they should have listed specs. that could give you more ideas.


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