# Commerical Beeks/Pollination New Category?



## Bigtbbq (Apr 12, 2008)

Well Im not a commercial beek "yet" but Id sure love to sit on the sidelines and read and study you guys.......
T.G.


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## florida pollinator (Jul 31, 2006)

I would be interested in it, most people don't do or share the same goals as we do,so i'm hesitant to put out thoughts alot of times.
And I know of no blogs for this theme, bee L has alot of non commercial folks on it also.


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## high rate of speed (Jan 4, 2008)

Totally agree.Alot of our views are different when it comes to getting the job done.Micro-managing as a commercial keeper is tough.I feel that is why their are some heated disscusions on beesource,because of the totally different work practices.


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

I would be interested in such a forum but am a little apprehensive about disagreements popping up, hobbyists vs pros. Us commercial beeks get picked on enough without a special forum. but it might be worth a try.
Sheri


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

I would hope that it would not turn into something like that. It's an excellent way for commercial beeks to share information regarding commercialization and things that work and idea sharing that can make the business easier. 

Additionally, it would be a great source for those who are hobbyist and are thinking of going commercial to get basic information about what is involved in making it a business and what is needed to get started and maintain.

I truly think it would be a great forum. We have some great people out there with generations of experience and it would be an excellent place to get that knowledge to the rest of us.


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## Phaedrus (May 25, 2008)

I would love to see this. If I love the hobby as much as I believe I will, then going commercial would be incredible, having some experience to tap and an easy place to find it would be invaluable.


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## MollySue'sHoney (Apr 10, 2008)

I think it would be a good idea. If necessary, it could be a 'hidden' forum accessible only by those who were moderator approved, eg. commercial guys and hobbiest/sideliners who aren't spoiling for a fight. At least, I assume this software can handle that.


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## Dan Williamson (Apr 6, 2004)

alpha6 said:


> I would hope that it would not turn into something like that. It's an excellent way for commercial beeks to share information regarding commercialization and things that work and idea sharing that can make the business easier.


The problem is it usually does turn into something like that. From colony management to honey sales the processes for a commercial beekeeper are about making a profit. They do not have the time to baby colonies nor do they have time to check every frame of every colony once a month or so. This is their livelyhood and it is built around that bottom line, time management, cutting costs, bulk purchases, bulk sales etc.

I enjoy hearing what they have to say. I also hope that people can appreciate that a commercial outfit has a different perspective and often different methods and leave it at that. 

That said, I won't hold my breath!


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

JohnK and Sheri said:


> but am a little apprehensive about disagreements popping up, hobbyists vs pros. Us commercial beeks get picked on enough without a special forumSheri


Disagreements?????

Hold on....... OK, I'm under the bus...... Let'er rip.....


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

Keith, it better be a long bus, you might have a LOT of company.
Sheri


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## high rate of speed (Jan 4, 2008)

Keith,you better hook a trailer up to that long bus.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Well, maybe I should have said a train.

Well, Queens seems to be a hot topic to start out with.


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

I'd better not mention names, but....
One of our larger Oregon beekeepers says that, "One's IQ is inversely proportional to the amount of hives he or she has".
If so:
SHOULD WE RUN THE NEW TOPIC IN ALL CAPS?


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

HarryVanderpool said:


> I'd better not mention names, but....
> One of our larger Oregon beekeepers says that, "One's IQ is inversely proportional to the amount of hives he or she has".
> If so:
> SHOULD WE RUN THE NEW TOPIC IN ALL CAPS?


LOL, see, here it comes!! And we didn't even start the forum yet!!

John says it takes a strong back and a weak mind to be a beekeeper, commercial or otherwise.. This may well be the case. Not pointing fingers, and present company excluded of course.
I am wondering, Harry, at what point (number of hives) would you go to all caps? Should I guess your answer will be one more than you run? I suggest one more than _we_ run.
Sheri


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

JohnK and Sheri said:


> LOL, see, here it comes!! And we didn't even start the forum yet!!
> 
> John says it takes a strong back and a weak mind to be a beekeeper, commercial or otherwise.. Sheri


HHmmm,

Do you know why, we keepers have a strong mind??????

Because.... it hasn't been used yet. LOL.


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## golddust-twins (Sep 8, 2007)

*Agreement*



tileguy said:


> Well Im not a commercial beek "yet" but Id sure love to sit on the sidelines and read and study you guys.......
> T.G.


I agree with tileguy. I think it would be a thrilling opportunity. When I went to pickup my nucs this Spring it was exhilarating to be at such a place and amongst pros.


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

JohnK and Sheri said:


> I am wondering, Harry, at what point (number of hives) would you go to all caps? Should I guess your answer will be one more than you run? I suggest one more than _we_ run.
> Sheri


Funny thing in Oregon; we have a disproportionate number of retired teachers that are commercial beekeepers. At least a dozen.
In fact, the gentleman that said the quote has his Masters.
He was just kidding.
HEY! One thing you MUST have is a great sence of humor!


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## Bigtbbq (Apr 12, 2008)

Thanks Connie, I agree, when I go to my Commercial Beekeeper friends in Wi. its just an awesome time. The owners even takes the time to show me around. And when I first started they showed me how to find the queen, the eggs, and even gave me some old wooden ware to help get me started. Not to mention all the other beeks that come in and I get to meet them and sit around and talk and talk and talk....LOL
So you see Admin/ Commercial Beekeepers, there are some that would like to see a new forum start so we can gleen from the big beeks, even if its a permission only type forum. Heck I would even throw myself in front of the bus or train for you guys.... 
Thanks again, T.G.


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## Flint (Jun 2, 2008)

I'm just a hobbyist, but I've worked for a couple of commercial outfits in the past, and I know that their breadth of knowledge is extensive and amazing. I'd love to read in on their forum.


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## Oldbee (Sep 25, 2006)

Ooops, wrong thread.


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## golddust-twins (Sep 8, 2007)

Flint >I'm just a hobbyist, but I've worked for a couple of commercial outfits in the past

Flint, you are one lucky person. I envy you.

tileguy > And when I first started they showed me how to find the queen, the eggs, and even gave me some old wooden ware to help get me started. 

and tileguy I envy you.


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## Jim Fischer (Jan 5, 2001)

We already have guys with 2, 12, or 30 hives telling us how we
should be running hundreds of hives, so a stand-alone forum 
would do nothing but make us even more attractive targets!


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## Ardilla (Jul 17, 2006)

I have no strong feeling one way or another about starting a new forum. However, the idea about making it hidden or private in order to avoid annoying posters is silly and goes against the free exchange of ideas. I would be interested in hearing more about how the commercial people do things. Most of us understand that there are necessary differences due to labor, etc.

If there are annoying people starting a flame war, you can put those people on your ignore list and/or the moderators can get involved if necessary. Excluding interested people in attempt to civilize the internet doesn't make sense to me.


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

Here is kind of why I think we need a new forum. 

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=220132

I know that these guys are just playing around with their answers, but if this guy was serious he would be able to get a good idea about what it takes to do it, if it could be done, how much time, costs, etc,etc...

instead, he is getting little or no info as opposed to reading info from posts that deal with commercial beekeeping.


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## Gene Weitzel (Dec 6, 2005)

alpha6 said:


> Here is kind of why I think we need a new forum.
> 
> http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=220132
> 
> ...


I concur with alpha6 on this point. Myself having around 100 hives I guess I would not quite be considered commercial, but if things keep going the way they are now I will be there next season (I've been told the magic number is 300).


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## Dan Williamson (Apr 6, 2004)

alpha6 said:


> Here is kind of why I think we need a new forum.
> 
> http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=220132
> 
> ...


Personally I don't consider that thread having anything to do with "COMMERCIAL" beekeeping. That's a hobbiest and he'll never make a living at it with 100 hives. I thought that thread was about having a side business with 100 hives and trying to make some money at it. Not to mention that what one guy might be able to make on 100 hives the guy down the road might not be able to make half that with the same number of hives. There are too many variables to be able to answer a question like that.


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

I'm interested in reading the thread. 
Please make it public.

Dan


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## danwyns (Nov 11, 2007)

I would be interested in seeing and contributing to a commercial forum.


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## Oldbee (Sep 25, 2006)

Jim Fischer said:


> We already have guys with 2, 12, or 30 hives telling us how we
> should be running hundreds of hives, so a stand-alone forum
> would do nothing but make us even more attractive targets!


And then we have beekeepers with hundreds/thousands of hives who "target" us with only one or two hives as "idiots" for doing what we do, lol.

A "commercial forum" would be good. I thought that was General Forum and the 101 Forum was for the others. Maybe we need a forum, .001 or .050?


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Oldbee said:


> Maybe we need a forum, .001 or .050?


Hey, OB


Does that mean I can add my .02 cent's worth? Shoot.... still trying to earn my second nickel so I can rub two together, well I guess that's what happens when you run two thousand by yourself. I should have stop at a thousand. lol


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## Oldbee (Sep 25, 2006)

Oh sure, your .02 cents, for what it's worth????...is welcome. lol.

I am only joking guys, you know that. I to admire what you do taking care of many, many hives; wish I could do that.


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## high rate of speed (Jan 4, 2008)

From what I can see,there has never been no target practice at any of the hobbie guys.professional gambling gets old after a while.Remember Keith its our IQ we are talking about.[JUST A COUPLE OF GALLONS]


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

high rate of speed said:


> Remember Keith its our IQ we are talking about.[JUST A COUPLE OF GALLONS]


"It's our IQ" when you find mine give me a shout, been looking for it for years. lol


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

.....


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Keith Jarrett said:


> Does that mean I can add my .02 cent's worth?


Cutting U.S. coinage is illeagal. .02 cent is two tenths of a cent, isn't it?

Just adding my 2 cents.


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## Flyer Jim (Apr 22, 2004)

sqkcrk said:


> Cutting U.S. coinage is illeagal. .02 cent is two tenths of a cent, isn't it?
> 
> Just adding my 2 cents.


wouldn't that bee 2/100s


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

2 cents, 2 tenths, 2 100ths, even Keith's second nickel, add them all up, the readers will be sure to get their money's worth.

Oldbee, I have never heard of any commercial operator calling hobbyists (in general, there a_re_ individual exceptions) idiots. If anything we are jealous. You actually get weekends off, lol.
Sheri


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## Flint (Jun 2, 2008)

Actually, weekends are when we work the bees. During the week we work our regular jobs that get us the money to afford the bees.
Not to put down any commercial beeks. I know you guys work seven day weeks too.
Having worked both sides, I know that the hobby-side is definetly much more relaxing and enjoyable. As a hobbyist, when the bees aren't doing well, I'm disappointed, but my paycheck is unaffected. Plus, I can really spend a lot of time with each individual hive, get to know them personally, which is the enjoyable part for me. Getting some surplus honey at the end of the year and seeing some hives survive the winter is the bonus part.


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

*BeeSource Forums...any help?*

Hoping that mods or someone will be able to address this issue of starting a new forum, but so far nothing heard here or from email sent to the BeeSource contact link.

Anyone have any idea of how to get this added?


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

Send a PM to Barry, direct him to this thread in case he hasn't seen it, although he probably has. He will get back to you when he has a chance.
Sheri


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Flyer Jim said:


> wouldn't that bee 2/100s


Yes, it would bee, Jim. It also would be two cents.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

alpha6 said:


> Hoping that mods or someone will be able to address this issue of starting a new forum, but so far nothing heard here or from email sent to the BeeSource contact link.
> 
> Anyone have any idea of how to get this added?


I don't have anything against a new Forum, but since anyone is welcome to comment on all Forums, perhaps some sort of indication about whether someone is a Commercial beekeeper or Hobbyist or Sideliner/Part Timer would address your needs. Maybe if ones user name was followed by what one considers themselves, such as sqkcrk/Commercial.

Just a thought. One worth 5 cents, me thinks.


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## greenbeekeeping (Feb 13, 2003)

I think a commercial forum would be nice.


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

sqkcrk said:


> perhaps some sort of indication about whether someone is a Commercial beekeeper or Hobbyist or Sideliner/Part Timer would address your needs. Maybe if ones user name was followed by what one considers themselves, such as sqkcrk/Commercial.


I think a commercial forum would deal with subjects from a commercial point of view, not just have posts from commercial beeks. After all, there are EX-commercial beeks that might be sideliners now, or some hobbyist might have seen something done when he visited a commercial outfit. I see this forum as more subject driven than individual driven. 
One problem might be the fine line between commercial and noncommercial practices, which often overlap, but the focus on this forum could be on income production and cost/time efficiencies, other subjects more of concern to those making their primary income from bees.
What would not be appropriate is a lot of negative feedback/debate from those with the time to micromanage their colonies. What is quite feasible when you have 50 colonies is impossible when you have 2000. Commercial outfits are well aware of the impact some shortcuts might have on the bees, but time is the resource they run out of first. The time constraints of large operations is one aspect least understood by hobbyists.
This forum might have more than moderate moderation needs.
Sheri


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## Gene Weitzel (Dec 6, 2005)

JohnK and Sheri said:


> ... What is quite feasible when you have 50 colonies is impossible when you have 2000. ....


Speaking from my own experience, what is quite feasible when you have 5 colonies can also become impossible when you have 50 or 100. I would especially like to see a commercial forum, as I am rapidly expanding and would definitely see benefit from discussions regarding how management practices change as hive counts increase and other aspects of keeping bees on a commercial scale.


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

Sent a PM to Barry...will see if the postman delivers it.


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

Well, I guess we are out of luck with a Commercial/Pollination forum. I have PMed and I know they have had to have seen this thread and the response, but so far nothing from those who run the site so I guess it ain't gonna happen.


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## IndianaHoney (Jun 5, 2006)

Well, if we can't get a forum going, I suggest a change to the rules. Add a rule that if a thread is dirrected toward commercial beeks, only commercial beeks, or those who have been commercial beeks are allowed to answer.

Another option is to ask each member to place their hive count in their tag. And ask the commercial guys who respond to a question to add in something like "from a commercial point of view" or something like that. All we really need is to get the commercial beeks more involved and get them to stand out. Maybe a ranking system?

As for those who who target commercial beeks. The only thing that I have seen so far is those who get down on them for moving their hives so much, but maybe I've missed other gripes. Anyway, I think we should all keep in mind that these guys/gals do this for a living. They know the risks involved in moving hives and stressing bees. And I'm sure they spend as much time as they can trying to keep their source of income healthy. If they have managed to stay in business, then they must be doing something right. Babying our hives is a luxery, not a nessessity.

I find this "bees need our constant attention to survive" to be very widespread amoung hobbist. Even in my own club. We are told not to assume that the queen is Ok just by lifting the lid and making a judgement call, that we should dig in and find her on every visit, and that each visit should be no more than two weeks apart. Personally, my opinion is that if someone gets into the broodnest more than twice a year without a good reason, he/she is disrupting them far too much. I just make sure that they have good equipment, a young healthy queen in the spring, no brood diseases, give them plenty of space, harvest, then make sure they are ready for winter. If I get into the broodnest at other times, its because I'm re-queening, something is wrong, I'm raising queens, or I'm making splits/nucs. If I open them up at any other time, its just a quick check to see if the hive looks healthy, and if they need more space. Maybe I'm wrong, but I suspect that this what the commercial beeks do as well.

Ok sorry for the rant, I'm done now.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Commercial beekeepers are beekeepers too. And many of the hobbyists and sideliners have lots of experience behind them which gives them a certain expertise equal to the knowledge of many commercial beekeepers. So even if there isn't a Comm. Forum we'll get by alright.

Don't give up your dream of having such a Forum. It hasn't been rejected yet. Has it? Silence isn't the same as rejection.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

sqkcrk, how true a statement about silence! I've been away from the board a lot lately and have not been on top of some requests.

At first reading of this thread, I'm a little concerned that a commercial forum may only amount to a place for "private" humor to take place among comrades.  - That's for Keith! 

Then I realized that if it ever got out of hand, Keith has offered to be the first to get thrown under!

Seriously, I'm always open to suggestions about the forums and a commercial forum is a possibility. The last thing I want happening is to create negative division among the members. This has the potential to do that. If someone or several want to come up with a description of what this forum would be, that would be a good start for me. I'll keep checking up here.


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

Copied and modified from my post #45 this forum

I think a commercial forum would deal with subjects from a commercial point of view, not just have posts from commercial beeks. 
...the focus on this forum could be on income production and cost/time efficiencies, and other subjects more of concern to those making their _primary income_ from bees.
Commercial outfits are well aware of the impact some shortcuts might have on the bees, discussions of pros/cons of certain practices on the various scales of operations might be helpful. 
While I think anyone should be able to post, it wouldn't be anything but divisive for those with no commercial experience trying to impose unrealistic methods or ideas on those with far greater experience. It is a given someone with 10 hives can babysit them to a much greater degree than a commercial operator can afford to. If a hobbyist is shocked by some of the less than micromanaging practices, they should refrain from posting to that effect unless they "been there, done that" and have something practical to offer. 
There are hobbyists who know more about bees than some commercial beekeepers (many of the small sideliners on this board could definitely teach me a thing or three ), I don't visualize this forum being about general beekeeping advice. Knowing how to run bees is not the focus here, it would be more geared towards how to run LOTS of bees at one time. 
But as I state this, I think I am thinking of operations such as ours. In fact, there are different models that could produce primary income, such as focusing on retail sales.
Sheri


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## high rate of speed (Jan 4, 2008)

Very well said sheri.


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## Keith Jarrett (Dec 10, 2006)

Barry;333231At first reading of this thread said:


> Well shoot Barry the cats already out of the bag.
> 
> I think alot of folks would get a kick out of the way we do things on a larger scale. It is a different way of keeping for sure.


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## high rate of speed (Jan 4, 2008)

So does this mean the new forum is up and running now.


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

*Thank you Bee Source*

Wow...thanks for getting this up and running you guys. Thanks Barry for giving it consideration.

I think this is going to be of benefit to a number of people....including me.


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## fat/beeman (Aug 23, 2002)

*commercial*

hello
I am alway ready to lend a hand,doing it organicway is the way I doit.maybe not a typical comercial beeker way. ask and you shall recieve.
Don


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## Mathispollenators (Jun 9, 2008)

*Thank you*

Glad to see this for us to be able to share our ideas with people in the same boat.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Thanks alph6 for suggesting this Forum and thanks Barry for setting it up.

Find a need and fill it.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

*Am I allowed in here?*

I have about 40 hives (before 20 of them die this winter), produced and sold 2.1 tons of honey last year, and have been doing so for over 35 years.
Am I qualified and allowed to read and post in this forum?
Oh yeah, I own a one ton flatbed and two Bobcats.


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## JohnK and Sheri (Nov 28, 2004)

odfrank said:


> I have about 40 hives (before 20 of them die this winter), produced and sold 2.1 tons of honey last year, and have been doing so for over 35 years.
> Am I qualified and allowed to read and post in this forum?
> Oh yeah, I own a one ton flatbed and two Bobcats.


Odfrank, Of course you can read and post to this forum, you don't need to even _own_ a bee to read and post here, BUT we want to keep the discussion focused on the commercial aspects of large scale bee management. Other questions are better served by other forums.
Sheri


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## beehoppers (Jun 16, 2005)

I like it...


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