# What is the best advice when building a bee vac?



## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

I am going to build a bee vac this winter and have seen some great designs. But, is there a bee vac idea that has a very low mortality rate? 

Pictures or link to great homemade bee vacs would be greatly appreciated!! Thanks!!..............Jason


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## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

Think of some way to slow them down gradually so they do not slam into the box or container at 100 mph. Increasing the diameter or cross section decreases the velocity.


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

My advice is don't build one and don't use one. I have built several and used several. I think kill too many bees and are not necessary...

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesferal.htm#beevacuum


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## MichaBees (Sep 26, 2010)

Perfect advice...
I have 2 useless bee vacs. One is just perfect and has 2 cages; used it once and never again will I use it. You want to buy one?


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

Wow, I never thought that I would ever disagree with Michael Bush . I built one and have used it over and over and have never killed more that 5 to 10 bees at a time. There were a couple of times were I didn't see one single dead bee. The queens all made it out alive and they are thriving hives now.

Respectfully written,


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## Cox89XJ (Jun 21, 2011)

I built one that sucks the bees into a hive body that is going to be used. It's got just barely enough flow to pull the bees into it. Very, very few dead bees. Works good in cut outs. I probably would not use it to hive a swarm though. Maybe in a very difficult circumstance.


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## broodhead (May 30, 2009)

A bee vac is a great tool to assist in removing some hives, not all. I do probably a hundred cut outs a year and the vac plays a important part of many of those removals. In ground water or irrigation boxes are applications that I use it the most and under trailer homes is another. Under portable housing can be messy and the vac does wonders. My vac is a great design built by Mike at North American in Jacksonville, and it is a wonderful addition to my arsenal. I have removed countless colonies with this vac and I have killed less bees than you would during a sweep or scoop method. The vac is a great tool, the design is wonderful, I can install frame in it, or just transfer the bees to a box when the job is finished. There are times when you can remove a entire large colony and not have a single dead bee.


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## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

Thanks for the replies everyone! The only reason for a bee vac would be for cut outs for me. Infact, I have been summons to do a cut out locally but I am going to try and deter it until spring when the hive would have a better chance at surviving after retrieval. I have also found several more bee trees, so I will be putting out a lot of swarm traps come spring!! Infact, one of the feral hives is about 30' above the location of a swarm I caught in June this year, just noticed it when I dropped off the promised jar of honey to the callers!


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## Fuzzy (Aug 4, 2005)

"is there a bee vac idea that has a very low mortality rate?" 

YES. I have one. If you are going to be in the San Jose area, will be glad to show it to you. I am retired, so most days or weekends are ok.

In the mean time, you should be looking for a good deal on a 20 FT 1-1/2 swimming pool hose.

If interested send me a PM to set up a contact.

Fuzzy


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

broodhead said:


> The vac is a great tool, the design is wonderful, I can install frame in it, or just transfer the bees to a box when the job is finished. There are times when you can remove a entire large colony and not have a single dead bee.


How about some pics?


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## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

Hey Fuzzy,

Would like to hook up with you and see your bee vac!! I am extremely busy the next few weeks but should be able to get to your area in November! I'll send you a PM when the time allows to pick your brain! Thanks!!................Jason


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## Troy (Feb 9, 2006)

I built a bee vac and have had good luck with it. The mortality rate is very low. Usually less than 50 bees dead from vacuuming a whole hive. That is less than you lose in a varroa test, so I feel this is fine.

The downside with my homeade version is it's size. The darn thing is big and heavy, but maybe that is why it works. If you make it too small, then the bees get an impact on arrival into the can or screen box. They don't handle impact well. 

I used standard 2 inch vaccum hose. My vacuum strength is adjustable and I adjust it down so it is annoyinging slow and that is perfect for not killing bees. Sometimes I shake the hose too as the bees will form clogs in there if I don't as there is just not enough velocity through the pipe. Again that is perfect for not killing bees.


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## Paul McCarty (Mar 30, 2011)

I went the bucket vac route and made a vac out of two 5 gallon buckets with screened holes in them to adjust the flow. Works great. Though it can be very slow on the suck factor. Probably why it works so well. It is a rather small vac unit that slips onto a 5 gallon bucket. So far my biggest problem has been keeping from kicking it over and spilling the bees (which is really annoying). Started two hives from cut-outs this way.


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## Maine_Beekeeper (Mar 19, 2006)

I absolutely love the bee vacs described in the Honey Bee Removal book written by Cindy Bee and Bill Owens. 
Great vac, extremely low mortality rate. I thought my old vac was really good (maybe 100+- mortality in a cutout). The Cindy Bee vac is more like less than a dozen dead bees in an entire removal. 

So far, all queens have made it (5 cutouts)

You can buy the book directly from the Bee Culture website here: it has the plans for how to build the vacs and also how to actually do the cutouts. Great advice and lots of photos and explanations. 

http://www.beeculture.com/store/index.cfm?action=showproducts&CatID=89


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## mrsl (Apr 21, 2010)

I made a bee vacs out of large rubbermaid containers (around 50 qt size) - they nest together, and have a silicone/foam seal between the boxes. The inner box has most of the bottom cut out and a piece of 1/8" hardware cloth siliconed onto the bottom, and the outer box acts as a plenum - it has a bulkhead fitting that my 1 gallon shopvac hose connects to. The lid goes on the inner box, and it also has a bulkhead fitting that I attach a washing machine drain hose to. I've got a 1" hole cut into the outer box near the vacuum hose hookup, and I partially cover it to regulate the vacuum to prevent injury to the bees. I've used it about 6 times now, and it works really well and is very lightweight. The shop vac, hose, extension cord all store inside the box. I have a total investment of $11 in this thing (not counting the shop vac, which I already had), and it's been very useful. I'm going to try building a robo-style vac this winter, since my cheapo plastic vac probably won't last too long.


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## SL Tx (Sep 17, 2006)

Beevacs work just fine...but not for every colony and certainly not for swarms. My advice:

Don't use corrugated pool hose...you want hose that is smooth on the inside so as not to kill bees as they tumble through. Use the hose made for in house vacuum systems...sold by the foot...not cheap...but don't skimp (you'll need that extra foot) I saved a few bucks by buying a remnant and kill far fewer bees now. A few dead bees is no big deal...so long as one of them isn't the queen...but she is probably more vulnerable to injury due to her size. Before I start sucking up bees I look real hard for the queen. If you lose her just combine the bees with another colony and promise to do a better job next time.

My plywood box inside a box is too heavy to use on a ladder...I intend to make one out of five gallon buckets one day...as soon as the rush is over. A long vacuum hose lets you leave the vacuum on the ground. I made extensions of various lengths of 1" 200 psi PVC pipe and they help a lot.

My Dewalt 18V cordless vacuum is great...no extension cords and it doesn't suck too hard.

Make sure that you have an adjustment window that lets you use the minimum "suck" necessary...big shop vacs suck way too hard and kill bees


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## Paul McCarty (Mar 30, 2011)

Second the motion for a 5 gallon bucket vac. I could not imagine a plywood box on a ladder. My bucket vac is hard enough.


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

Paul McCarty said:


> Second the motion for a 5 gallon bucket vac. I could not imagine a plywood box on a ladder. My bucket vac is hard enough.


I took the handle off the outside bucket and put a strap through the handle holes so I can carry it up a ladder strapped around my shoulder. It also helps adjusting the airflow when it's strapped to you because it's close and easy to reach. This is the type I built using my good buddy Rick's pictorial instructions. The only changes I made were a wider shorter hose, (because it's strapped to you a shorter hose is easier to manipulate on a ladder) and carpet glued to the bottom of the inside bucket in case I don't have the airflow just right to start it softens the impact). As you can see in the pictorial, you can also make a large "holding container" for bigger swarms. I love it. Works great!!! 

https://picasaweb.google.com/111863660513010434468/BeeVac#


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## Paul McCarty (Mar 30, 2011)

I need a strap for mine. It really sucks to drop it from the ladder full of bees. Ask me how I know...


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

Oh boy, I'm sensing a funny story to that. Ok Paul, how do you know?


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## Paul McCarty (Mar 30, 2011)

Well - on a cut-out once, my assistant screamed while I had my head in the rafters on a ladder. He had been using the vac while I pulled comb. I turned around and he had knocked the bucket vac off the ladder and spilled about 6 lbs of pissed off feral bees, which promptly flew everywhere. We had to re-vacuum them. I was so mad I could have killed him, then fifteen minutes later, I did the same thing. In the end, those bees got vacuumed about three times. Now I duct tape the bucket to the vac so it won't come off if dropped.


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

Ok, ok I have one too. You know how you cut a huge hole around the diameter of the lid and duct tape #8 hardware cloth to it to keep the bees cool? Well, on my first time using it, I pushed down and locked the lid because I was afraid that if I knocked it over, the bees would come spilling out. When I went to hive the bees, I had to work the lid open, (new bucket and lid) and in doing so, the mesh came loose and fell into the bucket.  Needless to say the bees were pissed and went flying everywhere. Luckily the queen remained in the bucket and when I dumped her in the hive, all the girls came back eventually after about 10 stings.


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## Paul McCarty (Mar 30, 2011)

I did learn that after you dump the bucket vac of bees, most of 'em just stay in a pile on the ground. If you're fast enough, you can suck them right up and avoid the cloud of highly agitated bees orbiting your head from that point on.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

everything I have sen int he way of bee vacs are about the same as what I commonly see int eh way of dust collectors. Designs that look good to bee keepers but are useless for the job they are meant to do.
It is well known that it is physically impossible to move the amount of air through a 4 inch pipe that is needed for a dust collector. Still the majority of dust collectors sold have 4 inch inlets. Manufacturers are actually criticized if they do not make collectors for 4 inch duct. Regardless of it being completely useless. 

With that being an example of what I call Universal Ignorance. Don't take that as an insult either look up the definition of ignorance if you think it is. I see the same thing applies to bee vacs.

they are made to be compact, they are made to be easy to handle. they are made to be light and manageable. but very little about them is made to capture bees safely. They sell because they make since to the Universally Ignorant mind.

Basically my answer is don't bother looking for any plans. I have not seen any that come even close. And the knowledge needed to design one is a very long study.

You coudl start here.
http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm
but you will have to decide what rules to break and which ones not to. all his research is about how to keep the air moving. while in this case you will want to do just the opposite and at some point get it to nearly stop. the cyclone itself does not apply at all. it is a very violent method of removing objects from the air stream. Btu to large degree you want the system to start out at high efficiency. then intentionally do everything wrong in order to slow the air down. things about turns and such very much apply.


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

Daniel Y said:


> Basically my answer is don't bother looking for any plans. I have not seen any that come even close. And the knowledge needed to design one is a very long study.


You don't have to look very far to get an awesome set of plans on this very website. This beevac works extremely well. The design is used by a lot of beekeepers.

http://www.beesource.com/build-it-yourself/bee-vac/


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## wildforager (Oct 4, 2011)

I like Robo's bushkill bee vac the best. Just suck them right into the hive body, no transfering.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

In the foot notes for the DIY vac notice, Quote:" The most important thing with Bee-vacuums is that you need to regulate the pressure...if they hit the inside box to hard, they'll die.

This design is better than most in that it regulates this "Pressure" (Actually air flow) from the trap box and not the end of the nozzle. It does nothing to prevent a current of air from the inlet to the outlet which is yet another problem with the design. If air flow is not to high this would not be a big issue. it uses a 2.5 inch hose which is a huge improvement to a 1.5 but not nearly as good as a 3 inch. somewhere in there you are going to run into trouble with the hose being to big though.

Also in the foot note I quote earlier is a description of what you want to feel as the bees hit the walls of the pipe. I suppose if just a little battering of the bees is okay with you that will work. how about if you feel the bees hitting at all ever it is a problem? maybe just a different of what is considered acceptable.

At any rate if you read the details in this design the maker of it even points out it has the shortcomings I mentioned in my last post. air moving to fast and harming the bees.


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## Charlie B (May 20, 2011)

It's a very simple matter to regulate with the appropriate opening to allow the suction to weaken. We do it all the time here with very little loss of life.


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## Lost Bee (Oct 9, 2011)

If you had a way to reduce the vacuum with a screened valve in the intake hose. 
Like a Y in a pipe for plumbing. I bet you could regulate the vacuum power. Just 
keep closing the valve until you have the vacuum power correct but not too 
strong and then get the bees. 

No more dead bees from 100 psi.


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## Fuzzy (Aug 4, 2005)

"If you had a way to reduce the vacuum with a screened valve in the intake hose. 
Like a Y in a pipe for plumbing. I bet you could regulate the vacuum power."

That is the wrong place for the regulator to be placed. If you put it in the hose, it does not reduce the speed through the hose, the bees still come slamming out. The proper place is directly into the cage area. That way LESS air flows through the hose.

Been there, done that -- Fuzzy


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## Lost Bee (Oct 9, 2011)

Paul McCarty said:


> head in the rafters


 :lpf::applause:


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## honeyman46408 (Feb 14, 2003)

> The proper place is directly into the cage area. That way LESS air flows through the hose


JUst like it shows on the plans on "beesource"


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## ryanbekke (Feb 2, 2012)

I made a bee vac using two 5 gallon buckets and a "bucket head" vacuum from the home depot. The design is very simple and CHEAP $30.00 Total, about $20.00 for the vac and $5.00 for the buckets and $5.00 for a suction adjustment ball valve. I only modified three things. First just drill the same size hole that the suction hose goes in directly vertical through the original suction hole so that the bees go straight in and don't have to pass through the 90 degree angle. Second drill a hole for your suction control ball valve and the third part is the tidious part, take "one" of the five gallon buckets and drill as many 1/8 inch holes in it as you can going up only half way on the bucket but all around the bucket for ventilation. If done right, it will look like a bucket strainer. And that's it.

1. Now just set the original bucket down on the ground.
2. Put the bucket with holes drilled in it inside of the one that is on the ground.
3. Clip your bucket head vac on your bucket and start sucking bees in " bee sure to adjust your suction with the ball valve so it isn't to strong.
4. When done just remove the vacuum, place the lid on the bucket,and pull the bucket out of the other bucket and your bees are now contained and ready to transport safely and well ventilated.

I still need to add my suction control in the pictures.





















For additional information on do it yourself hive building, you can see some of my step by step videos with dimensions that I have posted on you tube at no cost to you for constructing Langstroth Style Supers, Hive Bodies, Bottom Boards, and bee hive Frames. 

At the address below is a link to one of my videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mDVebXa2K8&feature=related


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## Taylors_Bees (Jan 17, 2011)

I love this plan i built it 3 years ago still works good only down side i can think of is the weight its heavy and bulky wean climbing ladder and i am not that good of a wood worker if i can build it any one can


Charlie B said:


> You don't have to look very far to get an awesome set of plans on this very website. This beevac works extremely well. The design is used by a lot of beekeepers.
> 
> http://www.beesource.com/build-it-yourself/bee-vac/


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## Taylors_Bees (Jan 17, 2011)

oooooooo and i don't get barely (10-15 out of a hole cut out) any dead bees and i took a piece of fabric and pillow foam and stapled it to the wall were the bees fly in the vac now thay hit a pillow pad instead of wood works good for me


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## ryanbekke (Feb 2, 2012)

Here are a few more pictures of my bee vac with the 3/4" ball valve to control the amount of suction needed. Also, be sure to silicone around both the hose and valve on top of vac and underneath of vac to prevent suction leaks. Like I said, mine works fine and I only have around $30.00 into the whole thing. The 1/8" ventillation hole drilling in the inner bucket is probably the worst part of the project it took me about 4-5 hours total over a 3 day period to drill them all with an 1/8" dremel drill bit. I do plan on getting a smooth hose instead of the ridgid one and place some newspaper balls or a rag inside the bucket so that the bees have a softer landing as they come in. Good Luck. And I hope this can save a few of you some money.


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## b2bnz (Apr 5, 2009)

The best bee vac by far is the Bushkill Farms one on Robo's World.
Vac directly into a standard hive with provision for comb retrieval as well.
Has worked for me with very little bee losses
robo.bushkillfarms.com/beekeeping/bee-vac/


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## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

Thanks for the photos Ryan, nice beevac!!


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## beyondthesidewalks (Dec 1, 2007)

Michael Bush said:


> My advice is don't build one and don't use one.


I agree. I try not to do cutouts so I don't really want one. I'll do a trap out first if I can. I've come to hate tearing out a wall to remove the bees and hear the complaints afterwards.


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## ryanbekke (Feb 2, 2012)

Your welcome pictures are worth a thousand words.


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