# Varroa mite treatment for a new beek.



## stillwater (Nov 14, 2015)

I was just curious about when and how to start a varroa mite treatment program. I am a new beek just getting ready to hive my first two packages of bee's this April. I was considering using a oxalic acid vaporizer as a means of varroa mite treatment. I would like to have some kind of a preventative program in place instead of waiting till there's a problem. My biggest concern is when is a new package able to tolerate a treatment? I would guess when they are settled in and establishing drawn frames of comb. Until then could i use some powdered sugar to see what kind of a mite count i may have? I am using screened bottom boards. Not trying to be a nervous ninny,just prepared. I've raised enough livestock to know the best time to start treatment programs isn't when you realize you have a problem.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

I'm a little northeast of you in Ohio so I think our climates should be fairly similar and treatment schedules should be about the same. 

Typically the mite loads here peak in August-September and that's the critical time period when I will do a series of 3 or 4 OAV treatments 5 to 7 days apart. That knocks down the mites in the hive pretty well prior to the last few brood cycles of late fall and winter bees. 

Then plan on another single treatment during their broodless period sometime between Thanksgiving and Christmas on a day when the temps are up in the 40's. That takes care of most of the phoretic mites left in the hive and they will be good to go in the spring. 

The packages are probably already treated, but if you want to be absolutely sure plan on a single treatment after there is brood in the hive, but before they start capping the cells. Once there is brood the bees will be fixed and there is much less of a risk of absconding. But do it right before cells are capped so no mites make it into the cells to reproduce.

I understand the temptation to try to go treatment free right away, but I suggest that you just plan on treating for the first couple of seasons until you are in a better position to evaluate your bees and their mite resistant traits, or lack thereof.


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## appalachianoutdoors (May 16, 2015)

Agree with everything x2. I OAV my hive and found it to extremely effective and easy. Had a high mite count this year by Sept, did 3 txs 6 days apart and took mite down to a very low level. Did not need to do a mid Dec broodless tx due to a remaining low level.


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## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

The first part is to understand what treatment options are available! When starting from packages one must keep in mind that the bees came from a functioning hive, as such it is possible that the package may contain mites, It is often difficult to see mites on an individual bee let alone a cluster in a package. One should always assume their package has mites. unless information to the contrary is provided by the seller. When installing a new package A Oxalic acid vapor treatment can be preformed on the package with or without the queen being involved. It is very simple and effective to treat a package thus insuring the bees start the new colony virtually mite free, as a treatment will get 99% of the mites. Simply install the bees as normal then treat. after an hour install the queen as normal. Or place the package with or without the queen under a cardboard box and vaporize. let stand for a while and install. Once you have installed the package you should be in good shape until fall treatment if necessary. This will give the bees a good start and allow them to brow rapidly.


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## mbevanz (Jul 23, 2012)

You can do an oxalic "dribble" on the package before you ever open it. Joe Latshaw describes it in detail here or somewhere.


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## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

Tenbears said:


> as a treatment will get 99% of the mites.


And that tidbit is the very important detail to understand. If you stick with one, and only one style of treatment, you have effectively become a mite breeder, and are applying strong selection pressure for tolerance to that treatment, in this case oxalic. A medium to long term strategy for dealing with mites needs to consider more than one tool in the toolbox.


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

I'm thinking of getting or making a vaporizer this year and treating swarms as well, last year I had one with an amazing mite drop that lasted for a couple months, and I think it set them way back. Or maybe an oxalic acid dribble, there usually are not enough bees to do a formic acid treatment safely and I don't want to wait this time.

All bees in North America have mites, it's just a matter of how many and how much damage they are doing.

Peter


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## mbevanz (Jul 23, 2012)

Swarm with a big mite drop. Hmmm?


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## mbevanz (Jul 23, 2012)

Imagine what they left behind. 
Likely virus infected swarm cells.


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## LittleByLittle (Dec 8, 2015)

I'm only about an hour or two south of you, stillwater, and wish I had treated my package right off the bat last year as well. I was told (erroneously) that a new package in a new location wouldn't have varroa problems the first year, and I lost my hive in late summer almost definitely due to complications of a high varroa load. Rookie mistake, and the bees paid for me accepting bad advice and not fact-checking it til too late. 

I plan to treat with a OA dribble this time around, either as a package or 7-8 days after installing them, before they cap any brood. I haven't decided which yet, for the same reasons you mention: I'm not sure which is easier on the bees. Upside to doing it in the package is I can pull the queen cage for the treatment and not worry about accidentally harming her.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

The first season in this location I nearly lost a nuc colony from listening to that same bad advice about mites and first year colonies. Other nucs from the same batch did not seem to have it as bad. Perhaps in some climates and flow conditions a fair percentage of nucs _can_ make the first year without knocking down the mites but I would not depend on it being true for you.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

LittleByLittle said:


> I'm not sure which is easier on the bees.


Dribble is supposed to be much rougher on brood and the bees, that's why they recommend doing only one dribble treatment when broodless. I would lean towards using OAV on the package. A week after installation is not a good time to be setting back the bees and brood. Just my own thoughts on it.


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## Colobee (May 15, 2014)

psfred said:


> *All bees in North America have mites*, it's just a matter of how many and how much damage they are doing.


A couple of mine _might have_ had mites, last year. My failing eyesight may have misled me. I think I saw a couple, but I was looking pretty hard. As far as I know, no one secretly checked my hives to confirm this common mantra.

"Most hives probably have some mites" might be a more accurate mantra, but perhaps it's too late...???

No, offense, Peter - I know your intentions were good.  I_ may _be "blessed" with regular bouts of extreme low humidity, which _might_ affect mite levels. (???!!!)

Bottom line: learn how to check, and what to look for!


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## stillwater (Nov 14, 2015)

Mike Gillmore said:


> Dribble is supposed to be much rougher on brood and the bees, that's why they recommend doing only one dribble treatment when broodless. I would lean towards using OAV on the package. A week after installation is not a good time to be setting back the bees and brood. Just my own thoughts on it.


Thats kinda what I thought,I was told by someone local to wait until the first hive body was drawn out. My only concern with that is surly by then there will a lot of capped broad. I have not considered going treatment free and probably won't , just not sure when to start. Have any studies been done on mites building up an immunity to OAV treatment yet? Thank you so far everyone for the info.


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## beegineer (Jul 5, 2011)

Well said Mike ! Most new beeks want to go treatment free but don't know a queen from a drone yet , given time that is a noble goal but knowing now that mites do exist in most of the USA going treatment free is beyond a beginning beekeepers knowledge and they will end up with empty boxes buying more packages every year so keep preaching maybe one day they will listen but for me it will be freeman bottom boards and the varrox and mybe some powdered sugar.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

stillwater said:


> Have any studies been done on mites building up an immunity to OAV treatment yet? Thank you so far everyone for the info.


In Europe they have been using it for twenty years or more and I have not seen any reports of mites adapting any immunity to it. There have been some suggestions about mites slightly altering the times spent phoretic vs under cappings but that does not seem well documented or attributed to oxalic acid use.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

stillwater said:


> Have any studies been done on mites building up an immunity to OAV treatment yet?


Per Jennifer Berry, Entomologist and Honey Bee Lab manager for UGA on Oxalic Acid…..

“……………*resistance will not be an issue. It'd be like a ****roach becoming resistant to a hammer.”*


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

grozzie2 said:


> And that tidbit is the very important detail to understand. If you stick with one, and only one style of treatment, you have effectively become a mite breeder, and are applying strong selection pressure for tolerance to that treatment, in this case oxalic. A medium to long term strategy for dealing with mites needs to consider more than one tool in the toolbox.


Per Jennifer Berry, Entomologist and Honey Bee Lab manager for UGA on Oxalic Acid…..

“……………*resistance will not be an issue. It'd be like a ****roach becoming resistant to a hammer.”*


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## orthoman (Feb 23, 2013)

Do yourself a big favor and log into the Honeybee Health Coalition and then look for the Tools for Varroa Management and read it. 

Also read Randy Oliver's Scientific Beekeeping articles on his web site.

All this may have been mentioned already - I didn't read all the posts.


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## fieldsofnaturalhoney (Feb 29, 2012)

stillwater said:


> I have not considered going treatment free and probably won't , just not sure when to start.


Probably a good thing since your packages aren't treatment free? However, don't let beginner status prevent you from raising some treatment free stock You just got to
get ahold of some. I have seen some pretty resilient ****roaches & hammers


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## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

snl said:


> Per Jennifer Berry, Entomologist and Honey Bee Lab manager for UGA on Oxalic Acid…..
> 
> “……………*resistance will not be an issue. It'd be like a ****roach becoming resistant to a hammer.”*


Pretty sure folks selling the stuff said similar things about apistan at some point way back when.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

grozzie2 said:


> Pretty sure folks selling the stuff said similar things about apistan at some point way back when.


I don't think so..........not only that, but OA has been used in Europe for over 20 years w/o a hint of resistance...


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## CAS_HNTR (Feb 16, 2016)

I am also starting a package thus spring for the first time and I am about 99% sure I will use the OAV treat them about a week after I install the package. 

Anyone that has done this recommend a vaporizer as better than others......budget friendly is a plus!


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

The VarroVap from Oxavap.com is an excellent, budget vaporizer. 😄


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## Robbin (May 26, 2013)

grozzie2 said:


> Pretty sure folks selling the stuff said similar things about apistan at some point way back when.


Except there is no money being made selling OA, so there isn't as much incentive to sugar coat the studies.


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## Robbin (May 26, 2013)

CAS_HNTR said:


> I am also starting a package thus spring for the first time and I am about 99% sure I will use the OAV treat them about a week after I install the package.
> 
> Anyone that has done this recommend a vaporizer as better than others......budget friendly is a plus!


I've got 4, 3 different kinds. The varrox is the most expensive, and well worth it. That's the one I've got two of. I highly recommend buying the best to start with, saves you money in the end.
The Varrox will last a lot longer then the others. Because of the way it's designed, I don't think it could ever short and cause a fire in a hive.


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

CAS_HNTR said:


> I am also starting a package thus spring for the first time and I am about 99% sure I will use the OAV treat them about a week after I install the package.
> 
> Anyone that has done this recommend a vaporizer as better than others......budget friendly is a plus!


Would love to know if you get a supercedure after doing so???? Keep us posted.


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## CAS_HNTR (Feb 16, 2016)

Robbin said:


> I've got 4, 3 different kinds. The varrox is the most expensive, and well worth it. That's the one I've got two of. I highly recommend buying the best to start with, saves you money in the end.
> The Varrox will last a lot longer then the others. Because of the way it's designed, I don't think it could ever short and cause a fire in a hive.


Buy once.....cry once......that seems to be my new moto when buying things.....tools, hunting/fishing stuff, household items, etc, etc ,etc



Honey-4-All said:


> Would love to know if you get a supercedure after doing so???? Keep us posted.


I would hope it wouldn't cause that, but who knows. I was hoping if I let them sit a week, it would be better. After reading all the horror stories about mite issues it has me scared and I want to be SURE they are not going to be an issue!


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

Hope you have not been put under the impression that a one time zap of OA will keep these bees alive till the 2020 election is over. If so you might want to erase that hard drive and do a major reboot. Will it help? Yes. 

Enough to keep those bees away from the affect of drifting bees and the mites you missed? NO!


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## CAS_HNTR (Feb 16, 2016)

I understand that, but it will help to reduce the amount at the start of the new hive.........I will address any more problems later as I monitor with my screened bottom.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Robbin said:


> Except there is no money being made selling OA, so there isn't as much incentive to sugar coat the studies.


I don't know about that. Brushy Mountain is selling it and I highly doubt they would sell it if they were not making money.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Honey-4-All said:


> Would love to know if you get a supercedure after doing so???? Keep us posted.


Trouble is one would never know what caused it if it does happen as supercedures happen often these days with packages.


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## LittleByLittle (Dec 8, 2015)

Mike Gillmore said:


> Dribble is supposed to be much rougher on brood and the bees, that's why they recommend doing only one dribble treatment when broodless. I would lean towards using OAV on the package. A week after installation is not a good time to be setting back the bees and brood. Just my own thoughts on it.


My comment you quoted was just on timing, nothing to do with vapor vs. dribble. I'd rather do vapor, but don't have the equipment at this stage.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

Gotcha. I read through your post too quickly. 

My choice would be to remove the queen and dribble while the bees are still in the package.


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## LittleByLittle (Dec 8, 2015)

Mike Gillmore said:


> Gotcha. I read through your post too quickly.
> 
> My choice would be to remove the queen and dribble while the bees are still in the package.


Thanks Mike. That makes the most sense to me too. Hopefully I'll have a vaporizer by the time fall treatment decisions need to be made.


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## Honey-4-All (Dec 19, 2008)

Mike Gillmore said:


> Gotcha. I read through your post too quickly.
> 
> My choice would be to remove the queen and dribble while the bees are still in the package.


See the following link about some of the best research done on OA dribble in package bees: 

http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1186&context=entomologyfacpub

also: http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1000&context=entomologydiss


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## rspading (Feb 6, 2016)

I just love this place. As a new Beek I am learning constantly from you guys and just wanted to say thanks!


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## Gilli_in_TN (Feb 23, 2016)

Any thoughts on vaporised mineral oil for varoa TX? Saw a Fatbeeman YouTube video about it. Does it work?


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## Robbin (May 26, 2013)

Gilli_in_TN said:


> Any thoughts on vaporised mineral oil for varoa TX? Saw a Fatbeeman YouTube video about it. Does it work?


Doesn't work at all in my opinion. Search for a thread started by GLOCK, he cataloged his entire effort with fogging. I followed it and did the same at the same time. 
I don't believe it helped at all, certainly did not stop me from losing hives to mites. We both moved on to OAV and found it extremely effective.


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## Lightswitch (May 29, 2014)

I treated with MAQS the past year, and my two colonies made it (so far) through Winter in northwestern PA. MAQS was quite easy to do, but after seeing a demonstration on a beekeeping seminar, an oxalic acid vaporizer is going to be in my next Christmas gift wish list: it will give me an alternative to MAQS and it's so quick and easy to make a treatment. At about $100 bucks, a vaporizer is a great tool to have.


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## brettj777 (Feb 27, 2013)

grozzie2 said:


> And that tidbit is the very important detail to understand. If you stick with one, and only one style of treatment, you have effectively become a mite breeder, and are applying strong selection pressure for tolerance to that treatment, in this case oxalic. A medium to long term strategy for dealing with mites needs to consider more than one tool in the toolbox.


None of the long term studies out of Europe support your claim. No resistance to OAV has been documented.


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## crocodilu911 (Apr 17, 2015)

stillwater said:


> I was just curious about when and how to start a varroa mite treatment program. I am a new beek just getting ready to hive my first two packages of bee's this April. I was considering using a oxalic acid vaporizer as a means of varroa mite treatment. I would like to have some kind of a preventative program in place instead of waiting till there's a problem. My biggest concern is when is a new package able to tolerate a treatment? I would guess when they are settled in and establishing drawn frames of comb. Until then could i use some powdered sugar to see what kind of a mite count i may have? I am using screened bottom boards. Not trying to be a nervous ninny,just prepared. I've raised enough livestock to know the best time to start treatment programs isn't when you realize you have a problem.


my friend, StillWater, as a new beekeeper you should ask yourself what kind of operation you want to have. do you want to go without treatment, and see how that goes, or do you want to go towards the organic side and work with oxalic acid and other stuff like that, or the conventional way would be ok for you. 
i can;t help much on the no treatment side, and the acids and organic treatments they do, couldbe tricky if you apply too much, or the wrong way, so beware on that. if the conventional treatment method is your path, then we can talk. i would suggest as soon as you can open the hives to treat them with Apivar. it's $30 /pack of 10 strips. depending on the size of the hive, you should use a max of 2 strips /hive. store in cool place and reseal the pack after use if some left. place the strips in the middle of brood nest. they work for 6 weeks, so they will catch several generation of bees, i have been using this for 10 years almost and it works great. do one treatment in spring and all summer you will have the mites under control. next treatment should be done in fall, when the brood count is almost 0. it works like a charm and you will not loose bees over varroua in winter i can guarantee. 
other that that, beware of foul brood and nosema in spring. if you plan to feed in spring, use a little bit of vinegar in your sugar water. nut enough to make is smell, just a dash (it helps with nosema).


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