# March OAV Treatment



## DPBsbees (Apr 14, 2011)

That's my plan. I'm late as usual. I'm going to give them a quick OAV soon to knock the varroa down so post harvest won't be too late. I just need to get off the stick.:thumbsup:


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

If you have brood, you would need to do a series of treatments. Remember, 80% or so of the mites in the hive are in the brood. Open up some drone cells. You see mites...then decide.


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## DPBsbees (Apr 14, 2011)

SNL is correct as usual. Just treating this year due to the warm winter to avoid a summer crash. I use other mite treatments post harvest. MAQS, or ApiGuard. Variety is the spice of life, plus no resistance likely.


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## laketrout (Mar 5, 2013)

Was thinking just one treatment to get a little ahead of them and knock them back I'm sure there brooding up already , I always do the three treatments in the fall and then one again around thanksgiving or later .I'd like to be able to get away with one series of treatments a year but it doesn't seem to work out .We have some real nice temps headed are way maybe I can get it done this weekend .I just want to move the time table ahead a little so I don't have to treat in my main flow when supers are on .


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## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

Knock the mites back twice a year. 

This is applying proper dosage before spring build up so as to have healthy summer bees and in early fall to raise healthy winter bees.

Apivar is used in the spring and OAV in the fall. It is important to rotate treatments so resistance does not take hold. There's not many good options out there for available treatments, so need to prevent resistance build up.

Apivar is lower cost to apply in the spring as opposed to fall as population is smaller. Dosage is one strip per five frames of bees so spring my require two strips as opposed to fall where four strips are required. Weather is more unpredictable in early apeinf, so Apivar can be installed and left on for the 42 days. OAV is hard to apply 7 days apart as it may be a snow storm when next treatment is required.

OAV can be done more readily in early fall. Apply three treatments, 7 days a part


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

If you did a treatment this winter when they were broodless, they should be OK. 

If you're concerned, go ahead and do a single treatment this week and see what you end up with on the board. As mentioned, most of the mites right now will be under cappings. Whatever you see dropped on the board after treatment, figure 4 or 5 times that many will be still be untouched in with the brood. If you see a heavy drop, continue with a series of 3 before they start brooding up heavy.


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## laketrout (Mar 5, 2013)

Mike I did the regular late fall series but it doesn't last through the fall flow for me and I can run into trouble , if I didn't want the fall flow I could treat early like you have explained it just seems you finish up with just the spring flow and let the bee's have the fall flow . Mike I wouldn't be where I'm at if it wasn't for you , but I can't seem to get with your timing . When you say most of the mites now are under cappings are you saying there is a hi percentage of brood already .I wish I could keep better records year to year so I could get with your program and timing on treatments .I was hoping one treatment now would get me through later into the fall .


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

Bruce, the main thing is the winter broodless treatment. If you did that, you probably don't have a thing to worry about. I always do one treatment between Thanksgiving and Christmas and that kills most of the phoretic mites. When spring comes I don't really need to worry about treatments because the bees are outbreeding the mites. The imbalance doesn't occur until late summer/fall when a series of treatments is required.

Right now you should have some brood in your hives, the beginning of their build up. The mites under the cappings will not be impacted by the OA. If you do 1 treatment right now, and in 3 days you find 50 mites on the board, there could be another 200 mites under brood cappings that were not touched. If you find 300, you have a problem and should do a series. 

Even if you do a series in the spring, you are still going to run into a mite population peak in late summer. That is the most important time to do your series. For me it's the few weeks right before the Goldenrod flow. I know that can be an inconvenient schedule for many people, but I've worked around it. Waiting longer does not allow enough time for the colony to raise clean winter bees in the last few brood cycles.

Also, to be clear, this is for my area specifically. Every region is a little different and has to be handled accordingly.


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## laketrout (Mar 5, 2013)

Mike my treatments have been identical to yours in the fall , the 3 series and then one later when there pretty much broodless, I'm sure you understand I'm not worried about the bee's now its that late summer / fall build up that hits them , I thought one treatment now would prolong the mite bomb until I get through the fall flow . So your saying even if I treat one time now there will be enough mites left under the cappings that will multiply by the time summer /fall comes and I will still be behind the eight ball , it won't put things off to later in the year when I can get my goldenrod off and then treat in late October .If this is the case then I finally get it , I wish the timing was better , I'm going to have to really follow your timing on this and try it again this year , thanks Mike .


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

It sounds like the main difference in our management is how we handle the fall flow. I leave it for the bees, it sounds like you might be more inclined to pull it. 

In middle to late August, a few weeks before Goldenrod, is when I pull the last supers of spring/summer honey off the hives and start the treatments. I leave them just enough honey to get through the dearth and into the Goldenrod flow in September. Sometimes I may need to feed a little to bridge the gap if it's an extended dearth.

By the time we're into the main Goldenrod flow I've completed my treatments and I let them fill the hives with GR and Aster nectar. Weather permitting, the fall flow is usually enough for them to load up and prepare their hives with stores for overwintering. The fall flow is for the bees. I only feed syrup in the fall if it becomes necessary due to bad weather or a poor nectar flow. I prefer that they overwinter on honey if possible.


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## laketrout (Mar 5, 2013)

Mike do you feel you can get decent honey production with leaving the fall honey on the hive as I do sell some to help pay expenses but either way I'm going to try and stay with you this year and see if I can learn a better way of managing the the timing of treatments in relation to the flow .


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

There are so many different ways to manage this. Many of the beekeepers in my area wait until after the Goldenrod flow to pull their supers and then they treat for mites, with whatever they typically use. They no doubt end up with a larger honey harvest than I do, but their bees go into winter with much greater mite damage than mine. When I compare their overwinter losses to mine the following spring, I wonder, what have they actually gained if they end up buying a bunch of packages to replace all their losses. 

Maybe it's a financial wash in the end, I don't know. But I am off the package treadmill, and that works for me.


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## laketrout (Mar 5, 2013)

Mike I'm on my second year in a row with no loss and its great , I thought in the beginning I was going to be buying bee's every year , I see packages are up to 129.00 at Mann Lake I didn't pay that much for good five frame nuc's two years ago , how could you survive paying prices like that for bee's every year .If I wait until the goldenrod is off my hives are full of mites and there in bad shape going into winter if they even make it , they can't seem to make the 12 month span on one series of treatments to the next year but if I could get on your schedule with treating earlier I'd be much better off and could get away from trying to treat when honey supers are on and having to remove them .Thanks again for jumping in and explaining this , I thought a early March treatment was the answer and hadn't considered the mites would build up anyway .


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## Michbeekeeper (Mar 14, 2015)

I thought about treating today as well but didn't. Can someone tell we why they want you to remove supers before you treat? I have three deeps on right now below the bees so I decided not to bc I didn't want to coat the other boxes below the bees. I could pull them off but the hive is still wrapped up and I want to leave it that way for at least the next 4-5 weeks.


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## Groundhwg (Jan 28, 2016)

mgolden said:


> Knock the mites back twice a year. This is applying proper dosage before spring build up so as to have healthy summer bees and in early fall to raise healthy winter bees. Apivar is used in the spring and OAV in the fall. It is important to rotate treatments so resistance does not take hold. There's not many good options out there for available treatments, so need to prevent resistance build up. OAV can be done more readily in early fall. Apply three treatments, 7 days a part


I thought that mites could not build up a resistance to OAV treatments. Has that changed? Thanks.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

Michbeekeeper said:


> Can someone tell we why they want you to remove supers before you treat?


I don't think it's so much a question of not treating with "supers on", as it is not treating during a "flow". 

If you have supers on with "capped honey", and you are not in an active flow with open cells of fresh nectar being carried into the hive, there is no problem doing an OAV treatment. The crystals that are spread out through the hive after a treatment are cleaned up within a few days. If the cells are capped, there is no risk of the OA contaminating the honey under the cappings. 

The instructions to not treat with supers on is mainly a safety precaution so OA crystals from treatment do not get into open cells of nectar during a flow.


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## Galaxie (May 13, 2015)

Groundhwg said:


> I thought that mites could not build up a resistance to OAV treatments. Has that changed? Thanks.


Never say never, but it's been used for 20 years in Europe with no signs of resistance.
It seems OA works by both burning and/or abrading the mite's feet and mouth parts as well as entering their blood system.


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