# Why such size difference in three day old grafts? picture



## valleyman (Nov 24, 2009)

I will be interested to see what some others have to say about this, myself. I have never grafted, but I am going to try sometime in the future to raise my own queens. In my mind what you should be looking for would be the one in the lower right corner. Just a puddle with a c on it. My guess is if the others are three day old larvae also then the eggs much have hatched much earlier (12-16 hours).


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## frazzledfozzle (May 26, 2010)

it looks like you have grafted varying aged lavae.
At 3 days old the smallest ones are the best size the others are way too big


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## Velbert (Mar 19, 2006)

So this was the size of larva 3 days after you grafted 

When i place a frame in the breeder to lay in I try to graft 3 1/2 to 3 3/4 days after placing the frame into the breeder hive to lay in this will nake the grafted larve 12 hours to 18 hrs old assumining she started laying in the cell usally it may take a short time before they start laying in them so they may be a few hours younger

Even when you graft in this time frame there is from about just hatched to 12 and up to 18 hrs old larva that you have grafted. This alone will make the size difference after 3 days from graft


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## frazzledfozzle (May 26, 2010)

I wouldn't expect to see such a big size difference at 3 days old if you are grafting lavae the same age from a frame inserted clean into a hive grafting from within a few inches of one location should result in lavae the same age and size. 
Even if you are grafting from a frame not purposely put into the hive you shouldn't get such a big difference in size, some size difference but not this much.


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## JohnBeeMan (Feb 24, 2004)

Maybe it is due to the difference in size of the daddies.


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## KevinR (Apr 30, 2010)

I'd assume that some of the larva are a little older/younger. Next I would make a guess that some of them were better fed earlier than the others. If you feel adventurous, next time you harvest Jelly. See if the cells in the middle of the frame are drawn out sooner/better. My bees tend to jump on the center cells before the outside ones.


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## CES (Feb 4, 2009)

As an experiment try this if you notice a variation of size of the larva. Let the bees cap the cells and watch to see if there is any significant difference within the set of cells as to when they are capped. The bees know exactly when to put the lid on. I would suggest looking for a variation of 12 hr or more. If so, is the larger larva getting capped first? This will tell you if it is an age difference. If they are all capped within 12 hr of each other then I would suggest the difference is how well they are fed. If that is the case then there is not enough nurse bees or feed or both for the number of queen cells being started.


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

Maybe the size differences seen in the pics are natural and expected simply because their ages vary +/- 12 to 18 hours. Maybe they actually grow so fast that a few hours can make that much of a difference in their sizes.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Joseph Clemens said:


> Maybe the size differences seen in the pics are natural and expected simply because their ages vary +/- 12 to 18 hours. Maybe they actually grow so fast that a few hours can make that much of a difference in their sizes.


I'm leaning toward that being most of it - if not all. I haven't seen any such variation in mated queens other than the occasional odd ball.

I think next batch I graft for jelly I'm going to intentionally get some that are just a smidgen on the big size and mark which ones they are.


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## JRH (Dec 30, 2010)

David LaFerney said:


> I'm guessing that you commercial guys do some manipulations so that you have an entire frame of appropriately sized larva to graft from instead of hunting for good ones like I'm doing. Do you see this size difference too?


For an excellent description of how to get larvae of the right age, see C.C. Miller's book "Fifty Years Among the Bees."


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