# Urban beekeeping and neighbors.



## NeilV (Nov 18, 2006)

Can you give more detail about the two possible sites?


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## Troy (Feb 9, 2006)

There are two tools to use as you pursue your interest.

The carrot and the stick.

Personally I always proceed down both paths if possible.

In this case I would be sure it is allowed in your community before I even mentioned it to the neighbor. (the stick) If the law is on their side, and beekeeping is not allowed in your city/community, then you'll likely not win this battle. Some cities have banned beekeeping altogether. Some have passed beekeeper friendly laws (rare) and most are either ambivalent, or negative toward the idea.

Do you live in a deed restricted subdivision? If so, you'd likely have to get their permission too.

If after looking into all this you find that you are OK, then go talk to the neighbor. (the carrot) Tell them of the plight of bees and how important they are. Tell them that you'd like to do your part to help the bees by getting a beehive yourself. Tell them of course you'll give them a taste of the honey that comes from the bees, and that you'll be responsible for them. 

If they warm to the idea, then remind them that bees are insects and that you'll need to know a day or two in advance of any spraying they need to do so you can secure them inside. Ask them to spray just at dusk, so that any flowers that get sprayed will likely be closed by the next morning, and won't affect the bees.

A little nice talk can go a long way.

Good luck.


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## dswan (Jul 12, 2008)

ndvan said:


> Can you give more detail about the two possible sites?


Here is a diagram of my property. Explanations follow.










Overview: House is south facing, with a garden in the front. Front yard is surrounded by 6' tall hedge, enclosing it in, and obscuring it from street. There is a small garden bed on the west side which gets direct sun during midday only. Neighbor 1, to the west, is assumed bee friendly. Neighbor 2 to the east, is assumed bee unfriendly.

Potential sites:

1: Physically, ideal site, but not hidden. Faces east, gets good sun for most of day, but would be visible to both the postman, and probably by neighbor 2 from their front balcony. 

2: Physically ok, but not hidden... Gets direct morning sun, but shaded by tree/hedge for the rest of the day, probably less visible.

3: A very discrete site at side of the house, but hive would be obscured from morning sun, only get direct sun at midday. The house, which it would face, would only be 6 feet away.

Your wisdom is appreciated.


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## dswan (Jul 12, 2008)

Troy said:


> There are two tools to use as you pursue your interest.
> 
> The carrot and the stick.
> 
> ...


Hi Troy,

The legal situation here is ambivalent, with the balance tilted in the favor of a complaining neighbor. I don't think talking will work with these folk.. they don't seem like nature enthusiasts in the least, and probably have a disdain for such ideas.

The honey would be a pretty good ice-breaker, but it's a chicken and egg thing... I need the hive before I can soften them with honey.

Despite much effort to reach out to these neighbors, they're still fairly standoffish. I do not see any beekeeping conversation with them going well. The husband actually seems like a great, easygoing kind of guy, but the wife's moods are either strained tolerance or thinly veiled hostility, depending on when you catch her. We're pretty decent neighbors, but I get the impression that simply having neighbors pisses her off.


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Oct 2, 2002)

It's easier to ask forgiveness than permission.

Site three is the obvious choice. Your hive needs to be camouflaged and the secluded area would be best not only for your concealment but for when you need to work the hives. A fully suited beekeeper stands out like a, well you know. 

Also the bees need a 6 ft barrier to get them up over foot traffic in your neighbors yard. If you don't have a screen to conceal them behind you have all winter to make one. They could be there for years if you don't let yourself be seen walking about the yard in your bee suit.

After a year or two you could give them some honey and if they hadn't noticed by then it would probably be ok to tell them.


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## aszalan (Sep 16, 2007)

http://maarec.psu.edu/pdfs/Keep_Bees_in_Pop_Area_pm.pdf


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## NeilV (Nov 18, 2006)

I vote site three, and try to get them as far from the property line as possible.


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## James Henderson (Jun 20, 2005)

Hey dswan,

How about planting a garden! Buy some coniferous shrubs from your local plant nursery and use them to block the view of the colonies from your neighbors. Back fill with some roses or other colorful flowers. If nosey neighbors start inquiring, tell them you like to work on your tan in the nude and your are trying to have a private place to do so.


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## Swobee (May 18, 2007)

Bill is on mark with the camoflauge. Your hive will very likely be no problem if it's 'out of sight & out of mind'. Out in the wide open, you have caused a potential alarm. Our privacy fence hides it from all neighbors and forces the bees to gain a lot of altitude before they leave the yard. 

A guy from a lawn care business got the wrong address and hit our back yard by mistake. He rang the door bell to say how embarassed he was, since he was supposed to be next door instead. "You don't see a beehive in town very often" he said with a wink and said he stayed well away from it once he noticed it. He said bees are a wonderful thing to have and was extremely apologetic that he might have hurt the bees. 

The only way to see our hive is to seriously trespass.


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## ScadsOBees (Oct 2, 2003)

Yeah, if you talk to them about it, they will not want hordes of angry bees swirling around the neighborhood randomly stinging people. Don't matter how you describe the bees and how docile they are.

Once they are there and not bothering the neighbors you will have better luck.

But make sure that you have a plan(fight) and an alternative location(flight) if that don't work out.

Rick


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## jasontatro (Feb 6, 2008)

Definitely check local ordinances about property lines. Those look way too close to me. In our state...hives can be no closer that 25' from the property line unless behind a 6' tall fence.

JT


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## chief (Apr 19, 2005)

When I first moved bees into my current back yard they were on the side of the house where my neighbor could see them from their bedroom. That was the best location but a big mistake. They complained that the bees were all over in their backyard and were really ticked off and worried. So I moved them over to the other side of the yard which was a lesser location but out of sight. I also told them I got rid of some of my hives which was true but only because I combined hives. This calmed them down. Over last winter I think they forgot about them because this summer they haven’t said a word and we talk with them a lot. I would keep them out of sight at all costs and most likely they will never know they are there. Also although it is good for them to have morning sun, face east, and have all of the other ideal conditions they will survive just fine with the less than ideal.

Jason,

I think that is only true for certain cities in our state and each city varies on beekeeping codes. I was under the same impression for some time because that is what the bee supply place had told me. They also told me that I could only have 5 hives on my property. I recently looked at King County and Washington State laws and codes. They say nothing like that. I live in unincorporated King County and the codes for the county only stipulate that I can have no more than 50 colonies on less than 5 acres! By the way how are your hives doing? Mine are bringing in lots of nectar and seem to be doing great with the rain and then this warm whether.


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## kirk-o (Feb 2, 2007)

*Urban Beekeeping*

I have akmost 20 hives right in Los Angeles.All my bees are Feral except one.Los Angeles has Millons of people in it.If you are going to have bees in an Urban Enviroment you have to deal with people.Dadant has a little booklet on seting up Bees in the city which could help.I promote helping save the bees,This gets my foot in Many doors believe me.I have people who call me up and ask if I can place a beehive in there yard.I have a web site and there is a section for Sponsors.That is Sponsor a location for a hive help save the bees.I have 8 people waiting for a hive to be placed in there yard.I have also 5 people wanting to learn to Beekeep so I'm starting a club Sat with the new Beekeeps.Any one can email me and I can give you the successful actions I use to be a successful beekeeper
kirkobeeo


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## NeilV (Nov 18, 2006)

The reference to Dadant made me think of somthing else. 

Consider facing the hive entrance towards your house. That will get the bees to fly up when they exit the hive. I don't think the bees care. That idea was initially suggested to me by Michael Bush, and I used it on my hives at my house. 

I have a couple of other hives in a yard that is in a neighborhood, and I faced the hive openining against a fence.

In both places, it helps to get them to fly up. 

Here's what you need to realize about keeping bees in town:

1. The bees are not really a problem, at least if you situate them properly.

2. Some people are scared by the idea of a beehive, even if the reality is that they are not a problem if properly situated.

3. The perception of a problem can be a real problem.

4. Deal with no 3.


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## Janemma (Apr 21, 2008)

Hi,

I'm not in Calgary, but I'm just up the road in Sherwood Park, AB so our bylaws may be similar! Our beekeeping bylaws state that you HAVE to notify your neighbours that you have a beehive on your property - all properties touching your property. You also have to register with the Provincial Apiarist. If you're likely to have issues with a problem neighbour it would be best to be above board imo. Then you know you're all legal with the county/ city bylaws etc etc. I wrote before I got my hives but you could wait until you have yours - and then when they come around to say they don't want bees there surprise them by saying you've already had them for several weeks!!! 

I had to go to the RCMP and get my permit from the bylaw officer there and sent a simple letter to all of my neighbours letting them know I had a few hives on my land. I didn't hear from any of them until recently when a neighbour let me know her garden did REALLY well this year  

Your neighbour may surprise you though - I HATE having neighbours - I am very unsociable and sound just like your neighbour!!! But if a neighbour had come to my door saying they were getting bees I wouldn't have minded a bit! But I now live in the middle of nowhere so I don't have to have neighbours lol! I prefer birds and moose  My friend is starting urban beekeeping here next year and my Father in Law in the UK also is!! - enjoy yours!


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## dswan (Jul 12, 2008)

Janemma said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm not in Calgary, but I'm just up the road in Sherwood Park, AB so our bylaws may be similar!


Hi Janemma,

Here in Calgary, there are no laws regarding urban beekeeping. This is covered by nuisance laws, which leaves urban keepers vulnerable to neighbor objection. Hive inspection by provincial inspector, is, of course, a must.

Currently, the calgary Beekeepers Club is working with the city to establish urban beekeeping guidelines... A set of best practices and recommendations to ensure that Urban Beekeeping is done responsibly. I imagine that even once these become formalized, beekeeping will still be vulnerable to objection on a nuisance-bylaw basis.


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## fjblair (May 11, 2008)

If you get the bees flight path up quickly they will never bee a problem. The comment about facing your house is excellent. They will go up and over. I have bees within 30ft of my house and they never come near us. I can see them flying in the sunshine but they never bother me or my neighbors. Even if you try to "educate" neighbors you may face resistance. If it is legal you do not need the neighbors consent. Or am I missing something?


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## dswan (Jul 12, 2008)

*Thanks.*

Thanks everyone for your great responses. It has helped determine my strategy a lot.

Thus, I've decided:

1) Site "3" will be the best, as it's most out of sight. From feedback in this thread, it does not appear to be a problem that it is closely penned in by both fence and house, and that it receives little direct sunlight.

2) I'm going to NOT mention this to the assumed-unfriendly neighbors, as they'll have little chance of finding out on their own. In the meantime, I'm going to build up cred by working with them on an anti-wasp efforts. After a year of successful beekeeping, I'll let them know by providing them with some honey.


Thanks again everyone for your responses.


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## blaine (Aug 27, 2008)

Glad you came to a decision on site 3. I would also make sure that it does NOT look like a hive at ALL. ( typical white lang boxes). How about a top bar, painted up like a pretty planter, complete with some potted plants sitting on TOP of it? 

Urban camo. I would not mention it to ANYONE, even the supposed bee freindly neighbor. Mouth tightly shut, hidden hive, close source of water, and you should have not many problems.

You could mention to the neighbor who over uses pesticides that a member of your family is very sensitive to their use, and to please notify you in advance to protect them from the fumes and or dust.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

if you are certain that no matter what, the neighbor will complain..and you are certain that you have the right to keep bees on your property, another approach might be:

set up some hives right now (empty). "try on" your beesuit outside while the neighbors are home and watching. let them complain, tell them to please call the police or health dept.

with any luck, they will complain about being stung and all that stuff. the police and heath dept will have little patience for their complaints if they started complaining before there were even bees present.

deknow


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## NashBeek (Feb 15, 2008)

*Urban Bee Keeping*

Deknow;
Sneaky,sneaky, but I love it


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## Swobee (May 18, 2007)

Deknow-
A new twist on the 'ball and dummy' trick. I rather like it!


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