# Dumb questions about splits



## Bigsal24 (Jan 23, 2015)

And I forgot to mention, they are in deep 10 frame Langs.


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## gezellig (Jun 11, 2014)

If you saw the swarm leave last year, you didn't get it? Since you saw it swarm, apparently you had a successful Queen mating and continuance of the hive, otherwise your hive would have died out. So, basically you made your first successful split last year. 
As far as splitting this year. As you said, you can just split the hives. Just ensure both boxes have frames with eggs and it doesn't matter which one the Queen is in. Both will have the resources to make another. The queenless will, the queen right won't.


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

Here is one way you can do it without finding the queen.
On a morning where the weather has warmed up some, take a spare empty box and bottom board and set next to the hive you want to split. Go through the hive, and pull out 2 frames of mostly pollen and shake all the bees off and put them in the spare box in the center. Then find 2 frames of mostly eggs and shake or brush the bees off and put them in the new box, one frame on each side of the two pollen frames. Then go through and find two frames of nectar/honey and shake or brush the bees off and put them into the new box, one on each outside the frames of eggs you put in already. Then go through and find 4 frames of sealed brood and brush the bees off and put them two to each outside space in that new box. Now that new box is full. Remove the empty box you now have in the original hive and shake all the bees back into the remaining box. Now put a queen excluder on top of it, and set that new box you've made up on top, with the lid. Next, wait until the late afternoon, and remove that bottom box to the side on a new stand. It has the queen in it, and it will now lose some of it's foragers to give strength to the new made up split left in place. Set the top box down on the bottom board. Wait now for 7 to ten days, and then remove the five frames on each side of that box and put them into five frame nuc boxes, and set on new stands. Move the old box with the queen back in the original position now to catch all the foragers. This will now reduce the populations in the two nucs you've made so that they don't swarm. The queen will now be getting all the foragers back, so add a super to her box. Check back on the two nucs in three weeks, you should have eggs a plenty from the newly mated and laying queens. This is only one way to do it, there are many ways to make up splits.


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## Bigsal24 (Jan 23, 2015)

Thanks for the responses. Yes Gezellig, the whole matter was a real bee adventure, in spite of my best efforts not to annoy the neighbors. I arrived just in time to see them take off from a hedge adjacent to their hive. Followed then about 400 yards, where they landed on the outside of a neighbor's chimney. Of course they ignored the baited swarm trap I had placed nearby in a tree in his yard! His house is about 80 years old and has been refitted with a metal roof with a steep pitch. It's very slick and not safe to climb up. I watched with binoculars, and they appeared to enter through a crack in the old masonry. Climbed into the attic twice to look, no bees. We think they're in his chimney. The old fireplace has been sealed at the top and retrofitted with a modern wood stove that has air intake and exhaust pipes----I was very concerned about fire danger from the comb they'd build, but he said the exhaust pipe is insulated and is cool to the touch going up the interior of the chimney. No way to get them without removing masonry. He said to leave them alone. I observed bees around the chimney all summer. Figured they'd die this winter. On the same very warm day I recently checked the hive, I went by his place and saw them outside the chimney---the little stinkers have wintered over just fine!

Needless to say, I'm keeping he and his wife stocked with honey!

Returning to the original topic, I think a walk-away split is my best bet. If I do that and set the split adjacent to the old hive, what about drift? Do I need to come back that night, close it up and move it? These bees are at my parents' acreage outside the city limits, about 7 miles from my home in the city. I could bring a split home for awhile, let it get established, and then take it back to the bee yard. I'd rather not keep them at my house long term, since my neighbors have a swimming pool.


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

A question re Ray's explaination. Sounds great. You divide the double deep into a reorganized double deep. Separate the boxes with a queen excluder and Queen in the lower box. You move the Queen box and leave the box with eggs on the original site. You then take 5 frames from each side and put them in nucs. 

Question: Are there always Queen cells on each side of the queenless 10 frame box?
If not and you give one of the nucs 5 frames without a queen cell is not too late for them to start another from the eggs provided 7-10 days prior.
Sorry but I think I am missing something


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## Tim KS (May 9, 2014)

WBVC said:


> A question re Ray's explaination. Sounds great. You divide the double deep into a reorganized double deep. Separate the boxes with a queen excluder and Queen in the lower box. You move the Queen box and leave the box with eggs on the original site. You then take 5 frames from each side and put them in nucs.
> 
> Question: Are there always Queen cells on each side of the queenless 10 frame box?
> If not and you give one of the nucs 5 frames without a queen cell is not too late for them to start another from the eggs provided 7-10 days prior.
> Sorry but I think I am missing something



Exactly the question that popped into my mind. Will the bees always build queen cells on both (egg) frames? Should we be looking for those queen cells before moving them to the nuc box?


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## Clayton Huestis (Jan 6, 2013)

Question: Are there always Queen cells on each side of the queenless 10 frame box?

reply:

I would say most of the time yes, Its nature guys of course there a chance there might be no cells on one side but probably not to often.

If not and you give one of the nucs 5 frames without a queen cell is not too late for them to start another from the eggs provided 7-10 days prior.
Sorry but I think I am missing something 

reply:

You could always cut a cell out and put it in the other nuc.


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

Just as Clayton Huestis said, 
There is always a chance that they do not make cells on both of the egg frames, but that will be very rare. If they do not, then just keep the full box as your split, or, add a frame of eggs from the main hive into the one nuc that has no cells, if it happens to you.


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