# SHB Help



## jwisnewski (Sep 29, 2008)

Just went into my overwinter stored hive bodies and found almost all of the comb loaded with shb larvae. I've got NUCS coming to replace winter killed hives and need drawn comb. Is there anyway to clean these larvae out? If not I'm going to have to steal from my going hives.


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## OneEyedRooster (Nov 10, 2012)

Put the frames in a plastic bag and seal up. Place in the freezer for 24-48 hours and then remove from the plastic and place frames back in the hive. Bees will clean out the dead SHB larvae.


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## jwisnewski (Sep 29, 2008)

Thanks, as soon as it stops raining here I'll get this done.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

jwisnewski said:


> Just went into my overwinter stored hive bodies and found almost all of the comb loaded with shb larvae.


Are you sure they aren't wax moth larvae? 'Overwinter stored hive bodies' with comb are often the target for wax moths rather than shb.


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## jwisnewski (Sep 29, 2008)

You're probably correct. SHB was my first thought because I've never had a wax moth problem. I'm still going to clean them and freeze them now that our power's back on.


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## LearningtheRopes (Apr 25, 2014)

Hi All, This is my first post and unfortunatley it is because I think I may have lost my hive. Two weeks ago I checked the hive, (Italian) which I started back in late April. The hive seemed very strong then, and after about two months they had filled out about 5-6 frames completley and were putting away honey. I have been feeding them all along. Yesterday I was working in my garden (where I have my Hive located) and noticed what seemed like sawdust at the hive entrance, and the bees (normally very active) seemed sluggish and few in number. I put my Veil and gloves on and opened the hive, there are very few bees in the hive now! Maybe enough to cover 1 frame completley, there is still brood and Honey, but there appeared to be a bunch of small white maggots on the floor of the hive. I saw a few that appeared to be falling out of empty comb. After reading several notes and looking at some photos, I am pretty sure they are Small Hive Beetles. I cleaned out everything I saw but I think they must have swarmed and left because I don't see many dead bees. Can the Hive survive? What can I do (if anything) to save the hive?

I lost a hive last year for the same reason but they were very slimy. I actually burnt that entire hive, though I saved some frames, (cleaning them and putting in new wax base). I didn't realize SHB burrow in the ground and wonder if thats how they got in the new hive. I hate to lose another hive like this...

I am located in Sharpsburg, MD and we have had a lot of rain latley but the hive seems dry, and I had a Hive entrance block in the hive to keep the entrance as small as possible after seeing some hornets flying around. Any advice?


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## Robbin (May 26, 2013)

LearningtheRopes said:


> Hi All, This is my first post and unfortunatley it is because I think I may have lost my hive. Two weeks ago I checked the hive, (Italian) which I started back in late April. The hive seemed very strong then, and after about two months they had filled out about 5-6 frames completley and were putting away honey. I have been feeding them all along. Yesterday I was working in my garden (where I have my Hive located) and noticed what seemed like sawdust at the hive entrance, and the bees (normally very active) seemed sluggish and few in number. I put my Veil and gloves on and opened the hive, there are very few bees in the hive now! Maybe enough to cover 1 frame completley, there is still brood and Honey, but there appeared to be a bunch of small white maggots on the floor of the hive. I saw a few that appeared to be falling out of empty comb. After reading several notes and looking at some photos, I am pretty sure they are Small Hive Beetles. I cleaned out everything I saw but I think they must have swarmed and left because I don't see many dead bees. Can the Hive survive? What can I do (if anything) to save the hive?
> 
> I lost a hive last year for the same reason but they were very slimy. I actually burnt that entire hive, though I saved some frames, (cleaning them and putting in new wax base). I didn't realize SHB burrow in the ground and wonder if thats how they got in the new hive. I hate to lose another hive like this...
> 
> I am located in Sharpsburg, MD and we have had a lot of rain latley but the hive seems dry, and I had a Hive entrance block in the hive to keep the entrance as small as possible after seeing some hornets flying around. Any advice?


Probably too late already. I would try checkmite as it kills SHB. You can't get this far behind the power curve, once they take over, it's too late. I would try screened bottom boards with oil traps. The next best option I've tried is beetle barns. But any of the beetle traps will help you control the SHB before they break out. Entrance reducers don't help againest the SHB. 
You can use a ground drench, thou I don't remember the name, guardstar maybe? To kill larva in the ground. Probably the most import thing is a good strong hive. Make sure you don't give them space they can't cover. Adding space they can't cover allows the SHB to use that space to grow in. Never leave comb in a hive that doesn't have enough bees to defend it. 

Good luck!


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## LearningtheRopes (Apr 25, 2014)

Thanks Robbin. I recently added a new super since the hive was doing so well and had nearly drawn out all the comb....Now I realize that was probably my downfall. I removed the extra super last night and will move the hive location tonight, as well as replace all the frames that look like they may be affected. I am going to look for the queen (though I am pretty sure she has left witht he majority of the bees) and I will order a new queen if so. There is a decent amount of Honey in the super with the bees, and a bunch of brood, so if I can get a strong queen in and clean out the infection.... I may be able to get them on their feet...I hope. I will let you know how it works. Thanks for the info!!


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## LearningtheRopes (Apr 25, 2014)

LearningtheRopes said:


> Thanks Robbin. I recently added a new super since the hive was doing so well and had nearly drawn out all the comb....Now I realize that was probably my downfall. I removed the extra super last night and will move the hive location tonight, as well as replace all the frames that look like they may be affected. I am going to look for the queen (though I am pretty sure she has left witht he majority of the bees) and I will order a new queen if so. There is a decent amount of Honey in the super with the bees, and a bunch of brood, so if I can get a strong queen in and clean out the infection.... I may be able to get them on their feet...I hope. I will let you know how it works. Thanks for the info!!


Ok, got home from work tonight and did an in depth inspection. There are still quite a few bees, but no brood. I moved the hive out into more direct sunlight and removed all comb that I saw that had SHB larvae. There weren't many, and the ones that had honey and larvae I removed all comb except the Honey to leave them some food, and then added fresh based frames back into the hive. I have ordered a new queen and hopefully if I can get her in in time, I may be able to save the colony. I saw some SHB larvae but not many. After the bees all return to the hive tonight I am going to close down the hive so that they only have room for about 2-3 bees to enter. I removed the extra super (which I think was the original mistake) and added a top that allows the hive to breathe a little better. I did not see any slime covered comb... and actually probably only saw about 10-15 SHB Larvae. I think that I lost the queen (or they swarmed) and I didn't catch it. I have been feeding them regularly and have tried to enter the hive once every 10-14 days..... Wish me luck!


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## Robbin (May 26, 2013)

LearningtheRopes said:


> Ok, got home from work tonight and did an in depth inspection. There are still quite a few bees, but no brood. I moved the hive out into more direct sunlight and removed all comb that I saw that had SHB larvae. There weren't many, and the ones that had honey and larvae I removed all comb except the Honey to leave them some food, and then added fresh based frames back into the hive. I have ordered a new queen and hopefully if I can get her in in time, I may be able to save the colony. I saw some SHB larvae but not many. After the bees all return to the hive tonight I am going to close down the hive so that they only have room for about 2-3 bees to enter. I removed the extra super (which I think was the original mistake) and added a top that allows the hive to breathe a little better. I did not see any slime covered comb... and actually probably only saw about 10-15 SHB Larvae. I think that I lost the queen (or they swarmed) and I didn't catch it. I have been feeding them regularly and have tried to enter the hive once every 10-14 days..... Wish me luck!


If they had left because of the SHB, it would have been obvious. Lots of SHB and Larva and slim. Don't leave them a lot of honey as that is what the SHB turns into slim, leave them enough to eat and keep covered. I suspect you either had a swarm, or lost your queen and then the SHB take over. Full sun is your friend, too much space can be a real problem. Freeze frames with SHB larva and they will die and you can feed the honey back to the bees. If I frame is slimed, fermented honey ozing out, the bees will leave. I don't put slimed frames back in a hive. 

Good luck,
Robbin


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## LearningtheRopes (Apr 25, 2014)

Ok, I guess the bad news comes in threes. :-( I fed the hive almost a gallon of sugar water between Friday and Sunday they were hitting it hard) So hard in fact I was concerned....THere were so many bees crowding the jar (1/4 Jar) that they were literally falling off the jar. Because of that I opened the hive to check and there were only a few ( I mean 10-15 Bees inside). I found two SHB's and several larvae. SO, I took out all frames that were in the hive, replaced the Hive base, box and frames, and used the sugar water to trap as many bees as possible in the hive. I had already ordered a new queen and she should ship tomorrow, and arrive by Friday. I am going to try to trap as many bees as possible and introduce the new queen when she arrives. I know it is a stretch, but with only a few bees the queen would probably not survive. If I can get them to accept her and at least hang around long enoug to get the first brood hatched (and feed constantly) they may recover enough to make it. With the numbers of bees showing up at the hive I am pretty sure the swarm relocated somewhere close. I just haven't located it yet. Any ideas on finding them? It doesn't look good, but I am going to try to salvage it if I can. I have given them fresh frames , several already containg comb.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

LearningtheRopes said:


> Ok, I guess the bad news comes in threes. :-( I fed the hive almost a gallon of sugar water between Friday and Sunday they were hitting it hard) So hard in fact I was concerned....THere were so many bees crowding the jar (1/4 Jar) that they were literally falling off the jar. Because of that I opened the hive to check and there were only a few ( I mean 10-15 Bees inside). I found two SHB's and several larvae. SO, I took out all frames that were in the hive, replaced the Hive base, box and frames, and used the sugar water to trap as many bees as possible in the hive. I had already ordered a new queen and she should ship tomorrow, and arrive by Friday. I am going to try to trap as many bees as possible and introduce the new queen when she arrives. I know it is a stretch, but with only a few bees the queen would probably not survive. If I can get them to accept her and at least hang around long enoug to get the first brood hatched (and feed constantly) they may recover enough to make it. With the numbers of bees showing up at the hive I am pretty sure the swarm relocated somewhere close. I just haven't located it yet. Any ideas on finding them? It doesn't look good, but I am going to try to salvage it if I can. I have given them fresh frames , several already containg comb.


A queen and 10-15 bees arent' going to do anything for ya.

Sounds like maybe the hive got robbed out while you were feeding them and what you "trapped" were a few robbers cleaning up the scraps.


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## Santa Caras (Aug 14, 2013)

if you have a frame with eggs from another hive, you can try giving them that and see if they'll either make a queen or brood if the queen is still in there.
had the same exact thing happen to me. did a split and tween robbing and weak from split...the SHB broke out and slimed everything. like you i took new frames..some with brood from another hive and a few clean frames and replaced everything. I can tell by the activity that it's still weak but the robbing has stopped. I THOUGHT i saw the queen when I was cleaning out but it was getting dark and hard to see and i wanted to get the nuc closed up and protected. Only been a few days so I'm giving it about 10 days to see if eggs or larva is around. Cross my fingers. Good luck with yours. 

As for SHB.....SBB w/oil trays, Frame oil traps and hive tool. I'm not above treating so gonna get some checkmite to put in there. A commercial beek uses tristar insecticide he sprays under his hives to kill larva. he says that right there is what keeps his in check in that they dont have a chance to pupate and fly back up into the hives to lay eggs.


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## Robbin (May 26, 2013)

LearningtheRopes said:


> Ok, I guess the bad news comes in threes. :-( I fed the hive almost a gallon of sugar water between Friday and Sunday they were hitting it hard) So hard in fact I was concerned....THere were so many bees crowding the jar (1/4 Jar) that they were literally falling off the jar. Because of that I opened the hive to check and there were only a few ( I mean 10-15 Bees inside). I found two SHB's and several larvae. SO, I took out all frames that were in the hive, replaced the Hive base, box and frames, and used the sugar water to trap as many bees as possible in the hive. I had already ordered a new queen and she should ship tomorrow, and arrive by Friday. I am going to try to trap as many bees as possible and introduce the new queen when she arrives. I know it is a stretch, but with only a few bees the queen would probably not survive. If I can get them to accept her and at least hang around long enoug to get the first brood hatched (and feed constantly) they may recover enough to make it. With the numbers of bees showing up at the hive I am pretty sure the swarm relocated somewhere close. I just haven't located it yet. Any ideas on finding them? It doesn't look good, but I am going to try to salvage it if I can. I have given them fresh frames , several already containg comb.


You probably need a couple hundred bees to make it. Frames with comb and a laying queen and you've got a chance. If all you found was a couple SHB and larva, they are not what caused your bees to leave. If they took almost a gallon over the weekend, I suspect you have enough bees.
Good luck,
Robbin


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## LearningtheRopes (Apr 25, 2014)

Robbin said:


> You probably need a couple hundred bees to make it. Frames with comb and a laying queen and you've got a chance. If all you found was a couple SHB and larva, they are not what caused your bees to leave. If they took almost a gallon over the weekend, I suspect you have enough bees.
> Good luck,
> Robbin


OK, my new queen arrived today. I have pretty much a new hive with some clean comb, still very few bees, but I am planning to trap some and introduce them. Once I have them, (I am using an old Package bee cage) I will use paper to keep them seperate from the queen for a short time, and keep the hive closed with a feeder and water inside for at least three days, Maybe longer. Once the bees take to the queen, I am just worried about robbing, or being overpowered until the first batch of Brood hatches. From then on it is a matter of watching out for pests and robbing, and keeping them well fed to make up for the short gathering season they will have. I had hoped to get this hive through the winter and then start making a small apiary adding a few hives each year...all was going well until about two weeks ago...the hive appeared strong, the numbers had doubled or trippled, and then I began noticing a lot of bees out front....(not like a normal pre-swarm) but apparently thats what it was. There were very few dead bees, and few SHB, though they were there. Heading home shortly hope it works...


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## Santa Caras (Aug 14, 2013)

@Learning...well my hive SEEMS to be doin okay. Theres some activity in and out, bringin in pollen and the bees are doing a better job of protecting the hive. The Gaurd bees are checking any that come into the hive. Over the weekend I placed a clean empty full frame of comb in there to give the Queen (if she's in there) more places to lay. I'll check it out this weekend to see if there are eggs/larva/capped brood. At this point your new queen s/b loose and roaming right???


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## LearningtheRopes (Apr 25, 2014)

Santa Caras said:


> @Learning...well my hive SEEMS to be doin okay. Theres some activity in and out, bringin in pollen and the bees are doing a better job of protecting the hive. The Gaurd bees are checking any that come into the hive. Over the weekend I placed a clean empty full frame of comb in there to give the Queen (if she's in there) more places to lay. I'll check it out this weekend to see if there are eggs/larva/capped brood. At this point your new queen s/b loose and roaming right???


OK, I got home and went straight to the Hive. I hand caught about 10-12 Bees to try to use to boost the population. I moved my hive into a wheelbarrow so I can move it as needed, and to keep it up away from ants and other bugs. I then used 2 full hive bodies (to give some room) and placed the new queen (still in her cage) and the captured bees in the hive with some honey, and water, and 2-3 clean frames of comb. I only have a handful of bees at this time but they all appeared very active/young and I placed in some honey I had with the most good clean comb (that I am sure of). I have the hive shut down so nothing gets in or out and plan to keep it shut for at least three days before opening to add water and check honey and see if there is any brood/larvae present. I know it is a wing and a prayer with so few bees, but if they have food, water and comb, and don't have any predation... I am hoping that they will make it until the first hatch which will hopefully give them sufficient numbers to begin multiplying especially if I keep feeding them heavily..... any advice?


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## LearningtheRopes (Apr 25, 2014)

LearningtheRopes said:


> OK, I got home and went straight to the Hive. I hand caught about 10-12 Bees to try to use to boost the population. I moved my hive into a wheelbarrow so I can move it as needed, and to keep it up away from ants and other bugs. I then used 2 full hive bodies (to give some room) and placed the new queen (still in her cage) and the captured bees in the hive with some honey, and water, and 2-3 clean frames of comb. I only have a handful of bees at this time but they all appeared very active/young and I placed in some honey I had with the most good clean comb (that I am sure of). I have the hive shut down so nothing gets in or out and plan to keep it shut for at least three days before opening to add water and check honey and see if there is any brood/larvae present. I know it is a wing and a prayer with so few bees, but if they have food, water and comb, and don't have any predation... I am hoping that they will make it until the first hatch which will hopefully give them sufficient numbers to begin multiplying especially if I keep feeding them heavily..... any advice?


OK, The first day the queen was out she looked a little...shocked... not very active, she was on the floor of the hive with a couple of workers... I moved her up oto comb and left er there., then opened the hive entrance so it is very small but allows entry. The last two days she has been active on the comb and I am seeing a few workers come and go...which due to low numbers I take that as a good sign. I am going to check for capped brood tomorrow to see if she has ben laying any eggs and is doing OK as well as making sure they have some food and water... We just got a big rain storm so there is water readily available almost everywhere... I am keeping my fingers crossed...


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## Chick (May 21, 2009)

Once the larva hit a frame, that frame is pretty much history, unless they are isolated to a particular area that can be cut out. Take all affected frames out. You can place a bottom oil trap, like a West SHB trap or Freeman Beetle Trap in the bottom, reduce the hive size so that you over crowd the frames, and dust them with powdered sugar. the dusting will make them angry and they will chase the beetles and larva, hopefully, all into the oil trap. At least the beetles will go into the trap, and hopefully, they will be mad enough to attack the larva. Ground drenches and lime can be used on the ground. The larva must go back to ground to pupate, and they do not like high pH ground, but, the larva have been known to travel a long way to clean ground, before boring down into the ground. But, by the time the larva hits the ground to pupate, the damage is complete in your hive. The SHB love Texas, and we have had hard lessons in them.


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