# OA Treatments: Quick Question



## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

One gram per brood chamber no matter the size --- 8 frame, 10 frame, shallow, medium or deep, all one gram. The only exception are nucs where it is 1/2 gram.


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## Cyan (Jan 27, 2015)

Thank you.


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## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

snl said:


> One gram per brood chamber no matter the size --- 8 frame, 10 frame, shallow, medium or deep, all one gram. The only exception are nucs where it is 1/2 gram.


I am thankful for the question and the answer. I will be doing a treatment on Thanksgiving and 1 colony is in a double deep nuc. I assume that will get 2 grams?


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## mcon672 (Mar 5, 2015)

I would say 1 gram total for a double deep nuc the way I understood it but I might be wrong.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

dsegrest said:


> I am thankful for the question and the answer. I will be doing a treatment on Thanksgiving and 1 colony is in a double deep nuc. I assume that will get 2 grams?


If it's a double deep NUC, it's one gram.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

snl said:


> One gram per brood chamber no matter the size.


How does that make any sense? If I use mediums and call it a brood chamber I use 1 gram but if I call it a nuc I use 1/2 gram. If I have 3 mediums for brood chamber I use 3 grams but if it were 2 deeps I would use 2 grams? That is quite a swing in dosage.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

... changed my mind


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## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

snl said:


> If it's a double deep NUC, it's one gram.


thank you.


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Acebird said:


> How does that make any sense? If I use mediums and call it a brood chamber I use 1 gram but if I call it a nuc I use 1/2 gram. If I have 3 mediums for brood chamber I use 3 grams but if it were 2 deeps I would use 2 grams? That is quite a swing in dosage.


Ace, a nuc is commonly 5 frames. One does not (normally) call a medium (10 frames) a nuc. I would not say that a difference of one gram is quite a swing. A gram is just a 1/4 teaspoon...


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## shinbone (Jul 5, 2011)

I run 8-frame boxes. I OAV them at the recommended dose for 10-frame boxes. I have never seen any negative effect from not adjusting the dosing level from 10-frame to 8-frame boxes. It kills lots of mites and has no negative impact on the bees whatsoever in any kind of way.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

It's just a measurement of approximately what works for a hive box. 

It's like making pancakes if you make 10 pancakes and you need one egg how many eggs do you need if you are going to make 15 pan cakes?

OAV is not very toxic to bees compared to mites, someone tested it (posted results here) they doubled the dose to 2 grams per box and noticed no effect on the bees. So if an 8 frame deep gets 20% more OVA per frame than a 10 frame it's not going to make a difference, nor to the mite kill either (just incase you were thinking about it).


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## cata_rebel (Jun 26, 2013)

How are you guys treated 3 deps 10 frames each ??
I have heyliser vaporizer according whit grams I should used 3 grams but my vaporizer is not holding more the 2gram at the time even whit 2 grams when is boiling to transform in fume is get out of the tray


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

FlowerPlanter said:


> OAV is not very toxic to bees compared to mites,


You said that really? Uranium is not very toxic to rats as it is to humans. How many rats do you thing survived Hiroshima?


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## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

Was reading Kentucky Government publication on OAV this AM and they state that OAV will kill open brood.

Does OAV kill open brood?


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## BigGun (Oct 27, 2011)

If that was written by the apiarist ignore it.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

mgolden said:


> Does OAV kill open brood?


According to the Kentucky Government... or you could ask a beekeeper on the internet. Oh you already did.


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## mgolden (Oct 26, 2011)

Here's the link. It reads likely to kill open brood.

http://www.kyagr.com/statevet/documents/BEELINES-SEPTEMBER-2015.pdf


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

At least the Kentucky Apiarist didn't _*try *_to make a connection between rats/Hiroshima/uranium:scratch: and oxalic acid treatment for varroa! :lpf:

:gh:


Here is the KY publication for those who wish to read it themselves ...
http://www.kyagr.com/statevet/documents/BEELINES-SEPTEMBER-2015.pdf


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

mgolden said:


> Does OAV kill open brood?


I have purposely vaporized open brood many times to test, it does not kill open brood. Somewhere in some post on BS, Michael Palmer stated the same when he tried it...............


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

I've been using OA Vapor for over 9 years and have never seen any killed brood at all from vaporization. Dribble is another story. I think the author of the article is confusing the two methods and the facts regarding injury to brood via vaporization are being reported in error. 

I use 2 grams for 3 - 10 frame mediums and it has been working just fine at that dosage.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

Acebird said:


> You said that really? Uranium is not very toxic to rats as it is to humans. How many rats do you thing survived Hiroshima?


Truthfully I don't know how many rats survived Hiroshima, I've only met a few. :lpf:



Of all the treatments OAV is probably the least toxic to bees, broods, queens... 

"Ellis and Aliano found that OA is about 70 times as toxic to mites as it is to adult bees—which is a much greater spread than with either thymol or formic acid."


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Here is the likely source of _FlowerPlanter_'s quote above:

http://scientificbeekeeping.com/oxalic-acid-questions-answers-and-more-questions-part-1-of-2-parts/

Note that Randy Oliver (the linked site owner) is a user of the oxalic acid 'dribble' method. Its important to understand that oxalic acid vaporization vs dribble carry _different _risks to both bees and humans. Read the page for more info.

And the Ellis and Alimo comment is credited by Randy here: 
"Ellis, M. & Aliano, N. 2005. Prepublication presentation at the 2005 California State Beekeepers Convention."


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## adson (Nov 25, 2009)

it also appears that everyone assumed that the OP was going to use vaporization and not the dribble. 

in reading a lot of the OA postings a lot of the specifics get glossed over and it would be easy for a first timer to get the wrong idea.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

On my expanded coverage stationary oav gadget, I put in 1 and 1/2 teaspoon of oa to treat
a 10 frame hive on 2 minutes and 20 seconds. Supposed to teat for 2 minutes but I'm doing my
trial testing on the expanded coverage area. Oav was everywhere inside the hive. Only found 3 dead young worker bees
the next day. All open/capped broods are safe after the treatment but all the free roaming mites are not.


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## WWW (Feb 6, 2011)

cata_rebel said:


> How are you guys treated 3 deps 10 frames each ??


You will probably need to double treat each hive, I know and understand the problem that you are having because I run three deep hives as well and I own a Heilyser vaporizer. There are several other options such as using two vaporizers per hive or modify your Heilyser to hold 3 grams which is what I opted to do. I do wish that Heilyser would offer an optional 3 gram pan, I am sure that there would be people interested in purchasing one, it is my considered opinion that the 2 gram pan is a bit small for 2 grams and should either be enlarged a little or eliminated and replaced by a good 3 gram pan.

The new 3 gram pan has been working great for me, in the photo below the original Heilyser 2 gram pan is on the left side, with a spare 3 gram pan in the middle, and on the right a 3 gram pan that I have been using for a number of years.

Anyone interested in the design sketch can PM me and I will be glad to PM the sketch to you.


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