# Robbing - Act III



## Apismellifera (Oct 12, 2014)

Lots of bees going out, none coming in...

I'm also thinking of putting something colored at the end of the tube... Red? Green? Blue? Would that help them orient?


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## msscha (Jan 4, 2014)

Would using a periscope entrance (a la Phil Chandler) help prevent robbing? Particularly if a piece of hardware cloth just large enough for workers to get through were placed over the entrance -- the robbers would have to get past that grid as well as past the guards at the actual entrance holes. Here is a Chandler video demonstrating a periscope entrance as a varroa preventative -- I'm linking it just as a general guide to how it might work to prevent/dissuade robbing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izVkg-w7aZM

I hope someone answers your other questions, especially the ones about absconding behavior. Btw, I think the idea of a larger, opaque tube with screening would accomplish the same goal as the periscope entrance (sorry -- should have read that more carefully before I responded!).


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## Apismellifera (Oct 12, 2014)

Checked out the Chandler vid... Basically the same design as the classic topbar robber screen, except no screen. ;-) But thanks for the suggestion. That rig might have other advantages in heat retention which is why chandler did it - to get his entrance up so varroa won't be so likely to fall on the bees with a bottom entrance, and still not lose the heat out the top. I'm just using the gap on one end - moderated by another strip of wood or two that get slid around to adjust width of the entrance.

Postmortem on this - 

Both hives are down to a handful of bees and their survival appears doubtful. A few days ago I still had the split queen, but I haven't seen the old queen for a few weeks. Now there are so few bees that the next time I look I will know for sure. What I did wrong:

1) Next time I will shut up the hive that is doing the robbing at night and open it back up in late afternoon. My theory is that this should break the cycle, or at least give the hive being robbed a break most of the day. I shut up the strong hive for about 40 hrs and had dead bees galore - lots of bees, 2-3 quarts of dead bees in the hive. They were frenetic the whole time and I think it just did them in. I'm wondering if they were poisoned (I have some bad neighbors that lost a noise battle with me.) It's possible that this is some sort of retribution. It's rather hard to believe that all those dead bees were a consequence of the closure, but clearly it's all my fault. Maybe there wasn't enough ventilation for that circumstance. They kept dying over a week, started when they were closed.

2) I had swapped locations to maybe get some bees from the strong hive to move to the weak. I will never do that again. Indirectly, it began a chain of events that led my strong new split hive to be decimated.

3) Huge bonehead move to xfer the large hive from one box to another in the midst of all this. Then the new hive was a tad narrower than the old due to the end placement - I cut a bit of the bottom off to make the ends level with the sides on my old hives, and left them to stick up a bit this time, doh. And I failed to notice that this opened up some gaps because the bars were not seating completely, stupidly didn't notice this for a day. Just made it a free for all. And other stupidities with feeding that I am too embarrassed to recount. My desire to use the new boxes resulted in more manipulation than ideal and the timing sucked.

4) I should have anticipated the dearth. Had I fed earlier perhaps I could have avoided all of this.

5) Split timing - I let too much time pass after the first unsuccessful split - by the time I moved the queen back over there I think there were too few bees to make a go of it. Then my efforts to pump them back up started the chain reaction.

6) Next year I will be much more proactive with entrance reduction and other strategies. Now I'm thinking a pvc elbow might be trick... Screens above the bees just seem to make them frantic - didn't seem to matter if it was the front or back of the hive, even if their entrance is right there... I don't know what's up with this but I'll not be using screen like that again.

7) I'm rather mystified as to why the standard robber screen technique was such a stupendous failure for me. Probably way too late.

Thanks for listening while I unburdened myself. ;-)


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## msscha (Jan 4, 2014)

Both hives are down to a handful of bees and their survival appears doubtful. A few days ago I still had the split queen, but I haven't seen the old queen for a few weeks. Now there are so few bees that the next time I look I will know for sure. What I did wrong:

1) Next time I will shut up the hive that is doing the robbing at night and open it back up in late afternoon. My theory is that this should break the cycle, or at least give the hive being robbed a break most of the day. I shut up the strong hive for about 40 hrs and had dead bees galore - lots of bees, 2-3 quarts of dead bees in the hive. They were frenetic the whole time and I think it just did them in. I'm wondering if they were poisoned (I have some bad neighbors that lost a noise battle with me.) It's possible that this is some sort of retribution. It's rather hard to believe that all those dead bees were a consequence of the closure, but clearly it's all my fault. Maybe there wasn't enough ventilation for that circumstance. They kept dying over a week, started when they were closed.

[/QUOTE]

Actually, I had something similar happen to me early this season with my first ever nuc. We couldn't figure out what the problem really was, but we do know that the hive was closed up over 24 hours and moved to a new location -- the result was a box of dead bees within 48 hours. According to local beeks (with solid experience, including a 2nd generation beek), bees can actually panic and do themselves in. I had no idea. Fwiw, I lost several hives this season: the one I just mentioned, 2 to ants (which I didn't know could decimate a hive, so while I don't blame myself directly, now I know better), and 2 for what I think turned out to be mismanaged splits and problems with roofing. After a lovely first season, it was one heck of a wake up call. I simultaneously enjoy bees more while feeling considerably less confident, which is probably a better combo for them!


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## Apismellifera (Oct 12, 2014)

Yeh, odd, huh? Hive closure, robber screens, screens over the top of bees, all standard but contraindicated by my experience. I'll take what the bees teach me over "common" knowledge. No recrimination, but ouch!

Pain shared is pain lessened in my book, so it's comforting to know that I'm not the only one that has experienced this. 

Yeh, I betcha in Florida you have some awful ants. Here on the moist left coast there are small black ants that will come in modest numbers to forage on the bottom tray under the screen but they seem to be held at bay up in the hive. If I saw large numbers I'd be alarmed. They've been relentless in the house, can't leave a drop of anything or they're on it. All day I'm squishin singles. I hate to be such a murderere but I'm absolutely sick of 'em. I can't seem to keep 'em out of the kitchen and I hope I don't have to fight that battle in hives.

I shared all of this hoping that it might help someone else with more choices in the same situation and maybe save them some trouble.

Thanks!


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