# what bee hive configuration is best ??



## TheRatLover (May 13, 2012)

wantabee said:


> What is the better configuration of bee hives blood nest. Is it 1) one deep, 2) two deeps, 3) one deep and one medium, or 4) 3 mediums (sticking to 10 frames hives in NC. I see all of the above but what are the advantages of each.
> Thanks
> Wantabee keeper.


Yes. I'd like to know that too! Anyone able to give some advice? I was told two deep hives, then add as many honey deeps after the deep hives have filled out with a queen excluder between the hives and the honey deeps.


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## flyingbrass (Jul 2, 2011)

I tried double deeps and it was a disaster. Bees would never go above the second deep to store honey and just filled the whole broodnest full. Disaster! I'm doing what the locals to now, one deep and one medium. My friend runs one deep and a shallow because he had them and it works for him. I'm new but learning fast.


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## NasalSponge (Jul 22, 2008)

> I'm doing what the locals do now


There is a good start, this is a regional thing. I have always run two deeps for brood without problems. I do like the idea of running all one size. Might try that on a hive next year.


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## Yucca Patrol (Mar 31, 2012)

Here in Alabama, I've been advised that one deep and one medium is enough to make it through the winter.


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## indypartridge (Nov 18, 2004)

NasalSponge said:


> ...this is a regional thing.


Asking about "best" configuration is like asking what's the best pizza. It's personal preference. Based on your climate, you do have to allow enough space for them to have adequate stores to overwinter, but deeps, mediums, shallows, 10-frame or 8-frame, equipment, is entirely your choice.

Some beeks use all the same size because it allows easy interchangeability of frames and boxes.

Some beeks want lighter equipment and use shallows or mediums and/or 8-frame boxes.

Some beeks prefer deeps for brood boxes because they prefer to deal with 20 frames of brood rather than 30, i.e., less frames to build, less frames to inspect.


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## Andrew Dewey (Aug 23, 2005)

indypartridge said:


> It's personal preference.


Agreed. And it is subject to local customs. Most where I am in Maine use two 10 frame deeps for a brood chamber. I've heard of a few adding a medium to the mix and thus not needing to worry about the bees running out of stores before spring. Personally I don't see much difference between three mediums and two deeps area wise.


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## Bush_84 (Jan 9, 2011)

Or how about as many as they'd like and do away with the excluer?


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

"Best" in beekeeping is a relative term, alas! The best configuration for YOU is the one that give you good overwintering and good honey yeilds. You may have to experiment to find out, but check with local beeks with some experience to see what works for them.

I am further north, and we occaionally have very cold winters, so the typical configuration here is two deeps plus whatever you want to use for honey supers (shallows for me, mediums are too heavy). I'm going to try at least one hive with a deep and two mediums so I can checkerboard next spring to see how that works.

You probably don't need two deeps for overwintering, and too much brood nest area can indeed cause you to lose honey crop since you can't extract half a frame (well, I suppose you could, but not well enough to actually succed at it), so a deep and a medium or a deep and a shallow will probably do for you. Give it a try, and be prepared to put a candy board on if they look like they will run out of honey late in the winter (jan/feb for you, I think).

As for excluders, you will have to find out what works for you. Some people like them, others don't.

Peter


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## Beregondo (Jun 21, 2011)

This question is a bit like asking, "How long is a piece of string?," as there are so many variables.

For a poor man, a single deep is a good configuartion. It's cheapest.
For a weak or injured one, three deeps make each box lightest to move. 
(This is most expensive in equipment cost of the options you asked about, so not a great choice for the poor guy.)

I have used double deeps. they worked well in the Finger lakes region of New York.
But even though I am quite strong, I think that they are too heavy to lift consistently using good body mechanics.

I've gone to mediums, and prefer 8 frame boxes. As things expand I may find I spend too much time pulling frames and boxes and either go to medium 10's or deep 8's.

ALL of the configurations you mentioned can work very well.

But BEST can only be defined for one's self. 
What we value and are capable of varies too much for someone else to decide that for us.


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## TheRatLover (May 13, 2012)

indypartridge said:


> Asking about "best" configuration is like asking what's the best pizza. It's personal preference. Based on your climate, you do have to allow enough space for them to have adequate stores to overwinter, but deeps, mediums, shallows, 10-frame or 8-frame, equipment, is entirely your choice.
> 
> Some beeks use all the same size because it allows easy interchangeability of frames and boxes.
> 
> ...



What about weight issues? I heard that the average deep can weigh up to 80 lbs when full. I can probably handle only about 60 lbs being a woman beekeeper. Should I get a medium size for the second deep? 

:sAlso, I prefer not to go over 2 hives if possible, so I want to make sure my hives have enough room, and I never have to split. Or is this not possible?


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## NasalSponge (Jul 22, 2008)

It is 80 pounds if full of honey much lighter full of brood.


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## psisk (Jul 21, 2011)

If I were starting again I would probably go all mediums just for interchanging frames, but since one deep is customary here that is what I started with. I tried double deeps but they wanted to chimney them so I went back to single deeps. We dont need more than single deeps to winter over here anyway. If I moved my hives very much I would definitely go with all mediums. I rarely move one from my location as I am in one of the best galberry/palmetto/cabbage palm areas in north Florida. 

psisk


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## TheRatLover (May 13, 2012)

NasalSponge said:


> It is 80 pounds if full of honey much lighter full of brood.


Okay....FYI, I have two hives. For each hive, I will be using two deep hives, then I will be placing a queen excluder and a honey deep over it. I plan on leaving the honey deep throughout the year unless treating for any disease. 

* How does feeding sugar syrup affect the honey deep?
* Would mostly brood fill the two deep hives if I left on the honey deep on at all times?
* I am only interested in taking comb from 5 out of the 10 frames of each of the honey deeps every year (starting next year). Is that too much?
* I could replace the frames by September with new ones. Being in Southern California, would these frames be able to fill out by winter?


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## CaBees (Nov 9, 2011)

I bet you will get as many opinions as many replies! I'm newbee too but have attended a bunch of hands on classes and for myself have brought away what I perceive as the best configurations to work for me....

1. Deep on the bottom for brood and queen then mediums from there on out...
2. No queen excluder so the hive ball and move up and down, expand and contract like they would in a tree. If the queen lays in a 'honey' super just let her, she needs it.
3. Take frames of honey a few at a time; I'm not a harvester or commercial, it is just for my own use, fun and gifts and it helps to open up the hives for more room.
4. Put just 8 frames in the 10 frame box with 2 solid boards (forget what they are called)..makes it so much easier to get into and manipulate the hive, allows for circulation of heat and moisture to escape.

I'm sure things will change as time goes on but this is where I am starting out after taking these classes with very experienced and successful beekeepers.


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## TheRatLover (May 13, 2012)

CaBees said:


> 2. No queen excluder so the hive ball and move up and down, expand and contract like they would in a tree. If the queen lays in a 'honey' super just let her, she needs it.
> 3. Take frames of honey a few at a time; I'm not a harvester or commercial, it is just for my own use, fun and gifts and it helps to open up the hives for more room.
> 4. Put just 8 frames in the 10 frame box with 2 solid boards (forget what they are called)..makes it so much easier to get into and manipulate the hive, allows for circulation of heat and moisture to escape.


I purchased 100% beeswax foundations for 10 of my total of 20 honey super frames - five for each honey super. I only want the comb for my family of 6, and other extended family and friends who desire to purchase a little. I prefer that these frames are not used for brood. Maybe I should get two honey supers for each hive and put the queen excluder between these...one super for the bees and one for me! What do you think?:thumbsup:


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## CaBees (Nov 9, 2011)

Well I am new too but I am not using wax foundation at all. I'm using either popsicle sticks or what I learned to do from one of the classes (mostly for opening up brood chambers) and that is a empty frame with a little propolis in the middle in a half circle at the top. I'm also just doing the crush and drain method for honey harvesting as I only harvest a few frames at a time. I am part of the 'surviver bees' group here in No. Cal. where they split untreated bees from strong hives and give/sell a split to someone who agrees not to treat and basically the strongest survive and the follow year get split and so on and so on. 

What I learned is if you have a medium of honey but the queen has put some brood in the middle frames then just leave those there for her; she needs them. Just harvest the outside frames or if it gets filled put another medium on top. The brood circle expands this time of year and then will contract in the fall as the population falls. It may also rise upward and downward during certain times of year... it is not static like we try to make it. 

Lots of the people I took classes with just saw so many examples of honey bound queens and brood chambers where she is trapped and can't get out or it is plugged up that I was convinced just to go without an excluder. But it is all how you are taught and what makes sense to you. I can't say enough about our local bee clubs and the many hands on classes they've offered and the ability to learn from other people's experiences. There are many ways to get to the same goal; for me I prefer treatment free and allowing the queen and the brood to go where they want to in the entire hive.


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## avesterfelt (Jan 31, 2012)

Wantabee, from experience in NC, I have run several configurations to see what would work best and this is what I have found. I have ran 2 deeps in 10 frame equipment and they built it fine; however you do have to move some frames around to get the outside built. I am switching over to 8 frame equipment and still keeping 2 deeps, since this seems to get them to draw out all the frames without frame swaps. 

I have been told since I’ve been here that I don’t need the 2 deeps and 1 deep and a medium or shallow would work; however the same local beekeepers that tell me this only get 1 super filled with honey every year and 2 would be a great year for most in my area. When I tell them that I am getting 2-3 on average and some this year have 5 supers on them, they don’t believe me. I attribute this to more space = more bees. 

I also have a several top bar hives and 5 frames nuc hives, along with some older guys that I help with their 1 deep and shallow configuration. Above all what has worked best for me is the 8 frame 2 deep configuration and this is what I will be doing from here out. (I will keep some 10 frame equipment; I had an 8 frame become honey bound this year and saved it by moving it all to my 10 frame equipment. Long story but my fault not the bees)

As stated though, there is no blanket answer; it is all what suits your needs. Just wanted to give you some local experience. 

By the way are you still seeing poplar blooms down your way?


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## NasalSponge (Jul 22, 2008)

Any honey you want the bees to winter on must be accessible to the queen meaning below the queen excluder. If you use the config you are describing you will have to remove the queen excluder come fall and I can assure you the queen will be up there laying come late winter. Having said that here is how it is suppose to work in a perfect world with the two deep config. Bees build up in spring filling both deeps with brood, supers are added and filled with honey. Supers are harvested late summer early fall. Bees backfill upper deep with fall honey for winter stores.


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## wantabee (Mar 23, 2011)

Avesterfelt: By the way are you still seeing poplar blooms down your way? 
I believe the popular bloom is on its last leg in this area. It just might be over now. 
Well, I can see it is really what they say.."it is whatever works best for you".
Thanks everyone for your input.


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