# Do you leave Frame Feeders in all the time?



## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

I just procured enough frame feeders to outfit all of my hives, and I would *really* like to leave them in the hives all the time for all around convenience sake. I guess they need to stay in the top of the brood chambers just below the queen excluders (when those are in use). During flows they would need to be covered with 1/4" plywood or something to keep them from being filled with burr comb. Right? Wrong? Any pointers?


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

The bees will fill most of the spaces underneath with honeycomb and wild brood construction and it will be a bear to do anything with. I do use the shallow super frames (that house the feeder inserts) as my quilt boxes. I get a good chance then to clean the bur comb out from underneath.


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## marshmasterpat (Jun 26, 2013)

Curious to see what the majority of folks say. Sure don't want a mess like Crofter has seen.


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## MTN-Bees (Jan 27, 2014)

I've been leaving the ML 1 gallon frame feeders in. There is some build up of burr comb, but it has not been too bad.


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

we don't use that type of feeder but seems like a great place for hive beetles to live. I know a lot of commercials leave them in year round so may be ok. ya can always take them out if ya don't like them.


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## Dave Burrup (Jul 22, 2008)

We leave ours in, and have never had any comb built in them.


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## Tenbears (May 15, 2012)

I also leave them 24/7/365. But I feed a lot. In fact almost anytime it is not too cold, or I have supers on. I like to keep the hive bodies well stored. It requires me to monitor for backfilling, but Increases my honey production as when a flow starts and I place the supers on the only place to store nectar is in the supers.. Naheehee (he laugh maniacally while rubbing his hands together)


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

I leave mine in 365 and have never had any comb built in them. I use the ML cap & ladder.........


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## McBee7 (Dec 25, 2013)

I've left them in nucs for an extended period of time before, and if the frames are tight to the feeder, they don't build comb there, but if I have the frames tight against the far side of the box they'll get creative between the frames and the feeder...Just my 2cents.

==McBee7==


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## RayMarler (Jun 18, 2008)

I've left them in over winter, filled with dry sugar. I think it helps absorb moisture in the hive. I had to chisel out the hard sugar block in the spring, added some water, and fed back to the bees.


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## My-smokepole (Apr 14, 2008)

Last year I left them in. this summer I started to pull them so they would have one more frame of brood area.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

snl said:


> I leave mine in 365 and have never had any comb built in them. I use the ML cap & ladder.........


That's probably the thing to do right there. Without the caps they clean them out so that they are not even sticky - how about with the caps? Do they require cleaning ever?


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## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

I have the cap and ladder style frame feeders, leave them in and dont have a problem with it. I know folks that use a similar feeder without the cap and ladder setup and they do get comb built in the feeder. They call that comb a ladder.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

I have no need to leave them in but probably would if I needed to feed year around. I don't like that they reduce a ten frame box to eight frames. I fed a few bait swarms with them this year and just left the two extra combs in a nuc box as an additional bait box. More convenient for a big feeding than jars.


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## crofter (May 5, 2011)

David; I see I misread the original post. I was relating my experience with the Mann Lake hive top feeders. It is the tunnel underneath them where the bees get creative. Frame feeders I use with no problems but have never left them in long.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

It's alright - I kinda thought you were talking about miller feeders from your comment.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Odfrank - I think that not having to remove, replace, and store them will be worth losing 2 frames. As a matter of fact the combs displaced by the feeders give me the option of adding another brood box onto some of my growing hives without using up my clean extracted honey combs.


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## terricox3 (Aug 15, 2015)

hello new bee keeper here, am I to put sugar feeders back on my bee hives? none of my frames are capped but I have a lot of brood and I was looking at one frame and looked like it was being stored with water . I have a warre hive and it is filled with brood, I gather that is what it is they are brown and capped. I cant make my meeting for it is in Cottageville and I don't get out of work in time to attend so any info be so appreciated south Carolina here..


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Terricox - do a google search for "bee brood" then click in the "image" link right under the address bar - this is called a google image search. Do the same thing for "capped honey" and "open nectar" - that should help you alot.

Do you need to put feeders back on and feed? If there is not a substantial amount (15 pounds or so) of nectar and honey combined in your hive then you probably should feed as a rule of thumb. Before a killing frost they will need more like 50 pounds of stores - the exact amt depends on the nature of winter in your area.

Good luck.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

I bought frame feeders this summer because I started too many nucs to feed with my miller feeders. I made inserts for the ML cheapies I bought with #8 hardware cloth folded over a half inch slice of 1by scrap. it fills that huge open space at the top and the drowning loss has been surprisingly small. That ladder has also seemed to stop the bees from building comb in the feeders. I have not yet decided whether to pull them for the winter and appreciate this discussion.


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## ApricotApiaries (Sep 21, 2014)

We use the MAnn Lake feeders with cap and ladder. Sometimes the bees will propolize the mesh on the ladders and occasionally a little bit of burr comb, and the comb next to the feeder might be a little funny. But otherwise we have had no problem leaving them in all year. Sample size is 120 hives and 70 nucs. It would take a lot of space to store all these feeders. They store very well in the hives themselves. 

On the other side...
My mentor uses the masonboard/wood style frame feeders. They are open in the top and do not have a cap and ladder. Beespace is violated and the bees build comb in them like crazy. Usually it is honey storage or drone comb. This yields two major issues. 

Issue 1: Queens are occasionally drowned in the feeders. This can be mitigated with alot of smoke and patience, but they run 2000 hives and are sometimes in a hurry. 
Issue 2: With alot of comb in the feeders, they don't hold as much syrup as you think they should and can be harder to fill, which can mean extra visits to heavy them up. 

So after years and years and years of dealing with them, he got an idea to custom build caps out of sheet metal (they have a fabricator who shares some shopspace) and fit mann lake ladders into them, melted to fit with a branding iron. We spent every morning in california this year scraping feeders and fitting caps and ladders, then swapping clean ones for dirty ones every day. rinse and repeat. Last I talk to him, they were still cleaning feeders. 

Having witnessed this, the caps and ladders sure seem like a good idea.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Just an update - I have had mother-lode medium frame feeders in all of my hives now since July - Mann lake sells them, but you can also order them direct from Mother lode. They have textured inner sides so that the bees can climb in and out without any kind of accessory ladders - I've tried equipping some with wire mesh ladders as well just to compare, and no difference. If anything they work better without add on ladders. I haven't used any kind of floats, or cap and ladders with them either, and I haven't had any kind of real problem with drowned bees. I have had a very small number of incidences where there were a lot of drowned bees and they didn't use up much of the syrup - these hives were queenless and the dead bees tipped me off that they needed intervention. Normally there are few if any dead bees in the feeders when I return - and they are licked out clean and dry.

*Burr Comb*
We have just had an outstanding fall flow for this area and a few hives did build comb inside of the feeders - every time it was a hive that had an inner cover with a lip on the bottom so that there is more access space into the feeder. Hives with flat migratory covers had no comb built in the feeders. I also have quite a few hives with tele covers but with just a piece of feed sack for an inner cover - this works very well with the frame feeder because they don't build comb in the feeder with this arrangement, and when you feed you can just peel back the side to expose the feeder if you want to. This is a great way to have a nice dry telescoping style cover and also save $6 or so per hive BTW.

I won't really know for sure how much I like these until I've had them for a year or so, but so far so good. This is the most convenient way to feed that I've tried yet.


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## WilliamsHoneyBees (Feb 17, 2010)

I leave my frame feeders in year round. Some do build burr comb in them, but the availability of having a feeder in each hive all the time is worth it.


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## dsegrest (May 15, 2014)

crofter said:


> David; I see I misread the original post. I was relating my experience with the Mann Lake hive top feeders. It is the tunnel underneath them where the bees get creative. Frame feeders I use with no problems but have never left them in long.


The top feeders always come off. I use a shim and a sugar brick when the bees stop taking wet feed. I know it would probably be ok to leave the frame feeders in, but I like to give them the extra frames for storage when liquid feed stops.


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

All of our hives have frame feeders that stay in place, year around.
They have aluminum window screen folded that eliminates any comb building or drowning.
Some beekeepers prefer to have the feeders to the inside of the pallet so that they can just slide the lid a couple of inches to fill feeders.
We have ours to the outside with the thought that it may provide a bit of insulation during winter and not get in the way of bees clustering toward the center of the pallet to conserve heat.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Harry - do you super up right on top of them like that? BTW - That is about the most pristine equipment I have ever seen. Nice.


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## Kamon A. Reynolds (Apr 15, 2012)

They work good for me most of the year. but if the hive is strong and in the honey flow...watch out! they will build brace comb in and around it making it frustrating to remove the frame nearest and sometimes the other boxes but not the end of the world.


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

David LaFerney said:


> Harry - do you super up right on top of them like that? BTW - That is about the most pristine equipment I have ever seen. Nice.


Thank you, David.
One fun thing that I enjoy doing every year is to start up 32 - 40 hives, brand new from top to bottom and start them behind the barn.
This year it was on April 5th.
We shake our own packages to install and do not move them until almonds in the next year.
The hives pictured were in that group and that's why they look so perfect; they are brand new!

And yes, when it is time to super we throw on an excluder and pile on the westerns.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Cool - I'll get some window screen and give that a try. But even if those hives are brand new they still look great.


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## HarryVanderpool (Apr 11, 2005)

David, I want to save you some time.
You will want to buy aluminum window screen that is 48" wide.
Measure the depth of your feeders.
Most of them are 7 - 8"deep.
Take a drywall square and razor knife  and cut the 7 or 8 inch slices off of the roll.
Then, cut the slices in half, to 24".
Now that you have your stack of 7 or 8" x 24" screens you can fold them.
Start at one end of the cut piece and fold back and forth at 1 1/2" folds.
Now you will need to go to your table saw  and cut 1 1/2' x 1 1/2" x 3/4" wood blocks.
If you do not install wooden spreader blocks centered at the top of the feeder they will fold in and your dosing will be low and uneven. (pictured)
Now you have your cut and folded screens and your wooden spreader blocks.
Lay a feeder on the work bench with the opening facing you.
Unfold a screen and cut out a notch centered as pictured so that you can insert the screen and place the spreader blocks.
With the screen and spreader block in place, hammer an 18 gauge wire nail through each side to secure the block in place.
Enjoy!


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Thanks, that is quite helpful.


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## odfrank (May 13, 2002)

You lost me at the spacer blocks.

Oh now I see them in post #25. Thanks.


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