# Another youngster trying to make a go



## beestudent (Jun 10, 2015)

Currently, we have ~15 hives that should build up nicely for winter, plus any late season swarms. (~20-25 total) hoping to build up to at least 75 hives from them this time next year. 

Also, planning on building up 50-100 packages next year to nucs and sell, and keeping any excess.

We also have a 3/4 ton truck and a 20 foot trailer.

Anyway, my question is: how much is necessary to get to 100 hives set on nuc production by the end of 2017 with the bees paying for everything? We also have garunteed yards for 100+ hives.


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## JRG13 (May 11, 2012)

How much what? $$?


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## Beekkirk (Mar 7, 2014)

Ive only really been seriously keeping bees for 2.5 years. I went from 18 overwintered hives and 20 packages this spring to 130 +/- hives and sold 40 +/- nucs this year. All numbers are approximate. I'm going to ring up a true total from all the receipts this winter. So far i have about $13000 in wooden ware/fences, $1500 in queens, $3000 in bees, $800 in my current oxalic acid setup and past vaporizers, probably $2000 in feed, probably another $800 in fuel this year. Spent the winter building equipment at nights and have probably averaged 2 hrs of bee work every night since first week of April. Now that we are off our flow im starting to get a break and only spending Sundays working the bees. My feed expense is going to rapidly go up if i want to keep my queens laying and split more for the next few weeks. Going into this winter im approximating that ill have $25,000 into my bees.
If I were to put a value on my hives/all new equipment and wanted to sell out right now id say $200/hive would be an easy unload number = $26,000 

Next year 150 nuc boxes and frames will cost me $3000, 200 queens for $4500, probably $4-5000 in feed $3000 in fuel/misc. and im going to sell 150 nucs for $165 each =$25000. Honey and pollination after that will all be bonus.

Right now my philosophy is that after that initial 2 years and an investment of $25,000, every year after is going to cost me $15,000 to maintain my operation in order to sell $25,000 of nucs. Honey and pollination will be bonus. Whats honey? I've done so much splitting that i don't even own an extractor yet!


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## Knucs (Jun 13, 2016)

Have you thought about raising your own queens & perhaps selling queens?


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## beestudent (Jun 10, 2015)

JRG13 said:


> How much what? $$?


Mainly how would you do it? I figure at least 2 frames or more of brood/bees excess off each nuc, so thats 100-200 frames hopefully, then each of the hives we have, how much equipment do we need to build this winter? I plan to produce all nucs from the bees. 

How i planned on making and selling the nucs was 1, get preorders for the nucs 2, build equipment (aprox $40 for a full single with alot of sweat $$$) 
And $110 for a local package. 

Is it possible to take, say, 2 nucs at 8 or so frames brood, take 3 from each, and make another nuc with a bought queen, and have a frame left over? At least honestly...

I calculated at selling a packed 5 frame nuc at $180.00, buying a package at 110, box for 40, and sugar, theres almost no cash, but, I then have a single with 5 frames of bees/brood left over... So, having a couple more nucs to sell for more cash flow would be good, but i dont want to just go out, open up a hive, pull 5 frames brood and drop in a queen, and hand it to a customer and say "here's your bees" it seemes a bit shady to me... Leaving them with the queen they're used to would improve survival would it not? And, i also thought, starting them in mid april, and building up would be what, a month and a half?

I don't have experience in this, would anyone please tell me how you have done it?


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## TNValleyBeeK (Oct 3, 2012)

Go pick up your own package bees down south for about $70, and save yourself $4000, or use the 4 to get even more packages then resell them.


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

Beestudent. Just watch this Michael Palmer video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nznzpiWEI8A
Then read his posts on nucs here on Beesource and you'll be set. :thumbsup:


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## m0dem (May 14, 2016)

"How to Make $5 in the Bee Business" 


build a 5-frame Dcoates nuc setup + buy 5 frames -> *-$20*
buy 2 frames of (brood + bees) and 1 frame of (honey + bees) @ $25 each -> *-$75*
buy a queen (not counting shipping ... for scale-ability) -> *-$25*
feed 8lbs sugar (1 gallon 1:1 syrup) @ $0.50/lb -> *-$4*
feed 2lbs pollen sub @ $2.00/lb -> *-$4*
sell as a 5-frame nuc for $150.50 -> *+$133* (net)
5 replacement frames -> *-$10*
cardboard nuc box -> *-$7.50*

net profit -> *+$5*

plus $20 of equipment left over! (5-frame nuc box with frames) so next time you'll profit $25 instead of $5!
if you can sell the nuc for $150.50! and was it worth your time?
lets say you can get 2 rounds of bees through and sell 2 nucs in a year... $30 profit per operating nuc per year... on paper.


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## beestudent (Jun 10, 2015)

TNValleyBeeK said:


> Go pick up your own package bees down south for about $70, and save yourself $4000, or use the 4 to get even more packages then resell them.


Had thought seriously about that, but costs for driving down there in a diesel 3/4 ton truck at about 18 mpg, driving, say, at least 1800+ miles round trip is still 250.00 fuel(at 2.50 a gallon) not to mention food/lodging for 3 people over 2+ days (im the beek, my dad's the driver, my mother is the accountant/gps so...) that could be 2k right there, plus if anything happens to the truck (96 chevy diesel 3/4 ton, 150k miles, been well taken care of) the cost goes way up, and its not worth 2 or 3 or more days of hassle for 2k bucks...

Well talk it over and maybe something will work out, but i dont know. Investing in more packages sounds nice!


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## johnbeejohn (Jun 30, 2013)

Selling nucs from packages for 180?? U think u could sell 100 nucs at 180 straight thru


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## The General (Apr 22, 2014)

As m0dem points out, the cost of buying and reselling is going to leave you scratching your head for profit. 

If you want to make money selling nucs you need to save money buying the bees. the nucs you sell need to be from bees you already have that can be split. The queens for the nucs need to be raised by you instead of bought.

buying packages and queens each year is counter productive to then turning around and selling Nucs. Learn about Micheal Palmer's sustainable apiary ideologies and learn why it is successful.


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## m0dem (May 14, 2016)

Yes, my "plan" is totally not sustainable. Unless you build to double-deep nucs and sell the split nucs. And raise your own queens.


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## TNValleyBeeK (Oct 3, 2012)

Profit? You guys make a profit? As far as I can tell that's the best you can do is pick and scratch unless your sending truckloads to the almonds. You find what works, and roll the dice. He's talking about getting to 100 hives by 2017, and he's only got 15 to build from. I don't think he's got much choice other than buying packages, nucs, or 100 singles. You have to spend $ to expand, you have to spend $ to operate. Mr Palmer buys early Queens for his outfit.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

I do?


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## ethanhogan (Jun 1, 2016)

^^^ I was wondering when something would be said


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## beestudent (Jun 10, 2015)

TNValleyBeeK said:


> Profit? You guys make a profit? As far as I can tell that's the best you can do is pick and scratch unless your sending truckloads to the almonds. You find what works, and roll the dice. He's talking about getting to 100 hives by 2017, and he's only got 15 to build from. I don't think he's got much choice other than buying packages, nucs, or 100 singles. You have to spend $ to expand, you have to spend $ to operate. Mr Palmer buys early Queens for his outfit.


Thats the point. Buying one package for one nuc is very expensive, but taking out 4-5 frames from a single deep raised from a package, that is what im thinking.


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## TNValleyBeeK (Oct 3, 2012)

Uh oh foot in mouth. Oh well must got confused skipping through the archives could have sworn I was reading about some early queen inquiries. Something should have clicked on that one, talking about the king sustainability.


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## Oldtimer (Jul 4, 2010)

beestudent said:


> Currently, we have ~15 hives that should build up nicely for winter, plus any late season swarms. (~20-25 total) hoping to build up to at least 75 hives from them this time next year.
> 
> Also, planning on building up 50-100 packages next year to nucs and sell, and keeping any excess.
> 
> ...


I don't think this is going to happen, even a highly skilled beekeeper would be pushed to the max and beyond attempting this.

My advice would be focus on wintering your 15 hives, then dividing them into 75 over the following season, don't even think about selling packages or nucs that season. For a less experienced person even achieving this will be a challenge.


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## ethanhogan (Jun 1, 2016)

^^ exactly. Use what you have and make more till you have enough to sell. A lot let money in that. Your already gonna have a lot just in extra boxes making all those splits. That's if all 15 make it through winter.


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## rookie2531 (Jul 28, 2014)

Agree with old-timer, and if you need to make money to fund more equipment, then you can sell about 15 nucs next spring (if they make it). And have enough time to rear and get 30-45 more hives going for the following winter. Totalling, about 50-60 hives.
Believe me, you sell 15 nucs and those customers are going to want Queens and boxes and all kinds of more equipment. You should be ready for that too. You want to keep a good name, as you can supply the needs of your customers, if not, they will find another dealer and forget about you.


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## Michael Palmer (Dec 29, 2006)

Michael Palmer said:


> I do?


Nope, I don't. If I need an early season queen, I use an over-wintered nuc. If I need a queen at the beginning of June, I have them from my over-wintered mating nucs when I re-establish them at the start of mating season.

Now, for making nuclei....

Best advice that I can give to a youngster....Patience Grasshopper.

Start slowly. Learn how to make and winter nucleus colonies. Then, you can start your nuc business, and run it separately from your honey production business.

In 2011, from 50 wintered nucleus colonies, I produced 35 cell builders between May 10 and June 15, and when I had a supply of mated queens, over a 4 week period from June 15 to July 15, approx., I made 330 nuclei from the brood in the 50 nucs. The 50 nucs were allowed to build back up for winter, and the system was repeated the following year. In fact, the system has been repeated every year since. I now run about 100 of these "Brood Factory" nucleus colonies, raising 1200+ queens and going into winter with close to 500 nuclei.

Patience Grasshopper


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## m0dem (May 14, 2016)

Thanks Mr. Palmer.
So, in the spring, do you sell off the extra nucs? (over 100)
Would anyone (me ) be able to make 9 nucs from 1 brood factory in a year?


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## Knucs (Jun 13, 2016)

Michael,

Not so young, but, any advice for a newbee gearing up to sell Nucs next year? Not into honey production, just Nucs & some queen selling(locally raised). So far, I've got 30 some hives, most Nuc sized & am in central Wi. Have been doing lots of splits this yr & lots of comb production. I started with a couple locally raised Nucs(carny/Italian mutts), got some carnies, couple Russian mixed queens, Old Sol survivors & Caucasians and very soon, 2 from you.. Should end up with some hardy mutts. Doing a little pollen collecting & plan on propolis collecting with those Caucasians. Plan on grafting next yr, will practice this summer. I do work part time but am able to spend a lot of time in the Apiary. Not sure of timing/buildup, a lot of things. I expect a lot will depend on how I come out of winter.


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## Fusion_power (Jan 14, 2005)

The limiting factor in building up the number of colonies is really not the bees, it is drawn combs. If you can get a single colony to draw 30 frames then you have the potential to split it into six nucs that could then be overwintered. This will sacrifice the honey crop, will require significant amounts of money to purchase or build the new equipment, will require new queens either raised or purchased, and requires quite a bit of expertise managing small colonies to prepare for fall. If I had a ton of time on my hands, I would not hesitate to do a 6 from 1 increase.


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## winevines (Apr 7, 2007)

The General said:


> you need to save money buying the bees. the nucs you sell need to be from bees you already have that can be split. The queens for the nucs need to be raised by you instead of bought.
> 
> buying packages and queens each year is counter productive to then turning around and selling Nucs. Learn about Micheal Palmer's sustainable apiary ideologies and learn why it is successful.


Thank you for this. Indeed. This is the whole point. Make bees from your own bees. If you can't raise the queens, buy them locally, or regionally or even from a quality commercial supplier or some combination of these sources for queens. Before too long you will have plenty of good queens in nucs. In 2008 I had four colonies and made my first two overwintered nucs. In 2015 went into winter with about 33 colonies and 33 nucs. Had one of my worst years ever and lost 20%. I split the nucs and ended up selling 90 nucs. Now I still have maybe 35 colonies and 40 nucs going in to Fall. More than I started with. I get lost in the math of how that happens, except that I know I get a minimum of 3 nucs for sale out of each double story nuc I overwinter. Seems pretty profitable to me, even with paying for queens and sugar. Harness the natural energies of the bees and you will prosper. 
So yes, in the words of the master. Patience grasshopper. One nuc at a time will get you there.


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## Adam Foster Collins (Nov 4, 2009)

Oldtimer;1459228...
My advice would be focus on wintering your 15 hives said:


> Sage advice. I'm an example. I begin this season with 15 overwintered nucs, and grew (through splitting an swarm boxes) to be heading into this winter with about 70 hives.
> 
> Adam


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