# Outa control lavalin 71b



## Mr. Voltering (10 mo ago)

Oh also did staggered nutrient addition and aerated 3 times a day for 3 days. Constant temp of 68*f


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## fieldsofnaturalhoney (Feb 29, 2012)

Mr. Voltering said:


> My question what am I to do? Very confused


Me too, what's the problem? Are you trying to bring the % up, or accomplish something else?


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## Mr. Voltering (10 mo ago)

Mr. Voltering said:


> Oh also did staggered nutrient addition and aerated 3 times a day for 3 days. Constant temp of 68*f


Well the 71b is good for 14%. The specific gravity was correct. To have a semi sweet mead. I’ve never had it go out of control like that. Should I add another 5-10lbs honey and pitch another 5 grams of yeast to try and get it back on track? There’s no realtor what occurred I know off and it should have fermented for a month and gotten to the correct abv. Instead in a week I had a inch and a half of lees 5%abv and a next to dry product. I want it to end up at least at 12%


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## Fivej (Apr 4, 2016)

16 lbs of honey plus tons of berries? No yeast can handle that in 5 gallons. Your yeast reached its alcohol tolerance and died. If your SG readings are correct, it stalled, probably because it is overwhelmed by the sugar and immediate production of gasses choking off the oxygen. Do not add more honey! You need to dilute it by removing at least half of what you have and top off with water and a higher alcohol tolerant yeast. Stir for the first 3 days to incorporate O2. J


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## Mr. Voltering (10 mo ago)

Fivej said:


> 16 lbs of honey plus tons of berries? No yeast can handle that in 5 gallons. Your yeast reached its alcohol tolerance and died. If your SG readings are correct, it stalled, probably because it is overwhelmed by the sugar and immediate production of gasses choking off the oxygen. Do not add more honey! You need to dilute it by removing at least half of what you have and top off with water and a higher alcohol tolerant yeast. Stir for the first 3 days to incorporate O2. J


I went off a verified recipe it was about 6lbs berries which are 40 percent water. 3-4 lbs per gallon were the suggested amounts of honey. Nutrient including phosphate and urea were added staggered as well as degassing and oxygenation 3 times a day for first three days. I will try relieving and re pitching but the specific gravity is far below what was required so I don’t see the correlation between too much sugar.


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## Mr. Voltering (10 mo ago)

Mr. Voltering said:


> I went off a verified recipe it was about 6lbs berries which are 40 percent water. 3-4 lbs per gallon were the suggested amounts of honey. Nutrient including phosphate and urea were added staggered as well as degassing and oxygenation 3 times a day for first three days. I will try relieving and re pitching but the specific gravity is far below what was required so I don’t see the correlation between too much sugar.


I went for 3lbs per gallon roughly with a lb to add residual sweetness


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## Fivej (Apr 4, 2016)

Mr. Voltering said:


> I went for 3lbs per gallon roughly with a lb to add residual sweetness


Ok, it sounded like you used way more berries than you did. You used a lb extra honey than standard recipe, but that is not the issue. I'd say it simply stalled, which happens. Many reasons, but the usual reason is a lack of oxygen or too low of a temperature. How soon did you rack it? Was you reading at time of racking? J


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## Mr. Voltering (10 mo ago)

Fivej said:


> Ok, it sounded like you used way more berries than you did. You used a lb extra honey than standard recipe, but that is not the issue. I'd say it simply stalled, which happens. Many reasons, but the usual reason is a lack of oxygen or too low of a temperature. How soon did you rack it? Was you reading at time of racking? J


When I saw how low the sugar content was and how much yeast was on the floor I immediately racked out all the berries and lees into a new vessel. Added 5lbs honey to bring up the gravity and 5 grams of yeast to try and compensate for what was lost yet still alive. I’ve them since oxygenated it 3 times a day. On 2nd day. It’s producing much smaller amounts of co2 and I can’t decide if I should pitch the other 5 grams of yeast and add another 5lbs honey otherwise I’m afraid it won’t get to even 8%abv. 2 days it hasn’t raised a single brix, produces about a .5 extra abv


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## Mr. Voltering (10 mo ago)

Brix to specific gravity at racking was like 1.006 or something


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## Mr. Voltering (10 mo ago)

So **** near dry and fermented out


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## Mr. Voltering (10 mo ago)

The bubbler is goin about once every 15 seconds


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## ShelleyStuart (Jan 4, 2010)

Something's off somewhere. You should get to about 10-11% ABV with your original recipe. 

Do you have a starting gravity/brix of your original must? Your racking gravity of 1.006 gives a brix reading of around 2, correct? Based on the honey added, your starting brix should have been around 24 (1.1 specific gravity).

The 3-4 pounds/gallon ratio assumes that you have your honey and add water to get to a 1 gallon total, not add 1 gallon of water to the honey. Three pounds of honey is just about a quart, so you'd end up with 3 pounds of honey and 3 quarts of water. If you want 14% alcohol, you'll need more like 19 pounds of total honey for a total volume of 6.5 gallons.


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## Mr. Voltering (10 mo ago)

ShelleyStuart said:


> Something's off somewhere. You should get to about 10-11% ABV with your original recipe.
> 
> Do you have a starting gravity/brix of your original must? Your racking gravity of 1.006 gives a brix reading of around 2, correct? Based on the honey added, your starting brix should have been around 24 (1.1 specific gravity).
> 
> The 3-4 pounds/gallon ratio assumes that you have your honey and add water to get to a 1 gallon total, not add 1 gallon of water to the honey. Three pounds of honey is just about a quart, so you'd end up with 3 pounds of honey and 3 quarts of water. If you want 14% alcohol, you'll need more like 19 pounds of total honey for a total volume of 6.5 gallons.


Yes it was 5 exact gallons spring water
16 lbs exactly of honey. 
the fermentation is going so slow I think im going to add 5 more lb honey and pitch one gram of yeast
I don’t k ow how much yeast died off in the lees and what was left or should I pitch more?
The starting gravity was roughly 1.098


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## Mr. Voltering (10 mo ago)

The recipe called for 5 gallons of water. Are you saying it should have been 3lbs + whatever water then equaled a gallon? I would thing the sugar content would have been extremely high


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## Mr. Voltering (10 mo ago)

I have after racking I assume roughly 20 lbs of honey in there now. Can’t get a brix reading of sugar that I think is accurate during fermentation. It tastes dry. I’m thinking of throwing another 5lbs of honey in


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## Mr. Voltering (10 mo ago)

Or should it be more? I’ll have to pour some of the carboy out. So I’m leaning between 5-10lbs honey and pitching 1-2 more grams yeast?


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## Mr. Voltering (10 mo ago)

I really want to save this batch it’s so expensive making 5 gallons at a time


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## Mr. Voltering (10 mo ago)

I assume thinking upon it it must have come out correct because I added 16lb honey some warm water to the carboy, made a slurry then proceed to fill the carboy and left enough room for the berries so on thinking it couldn’t have been 5 gallons of water I added. Sorry newbie. Only 3rd batch


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## Mr. Voltering (10 mo ago)

Correction 1.98 starting gravity


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## Fivej (Apr 4, 2016)

Could your hydrometer be off? Can you smell and taste the alcohol? What kind of berries? A lot of dried berries and some frozen contain sorbates which kill yeast. Possible you have a bad batch of yeast. J


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## Mr. Voltering (10 mo ago)

No hy


Fivej said:


> Could your hydrometer be off? Can you smell and taste the alcohol? What kind of berries? A lot of dried berries and some frozen contain sorbates which kill yeast. Possible you have a bad batch of yeast. J


No hydrometer just brix/abv scope. 
I can smell alcohol lots of co2
Cherry blackberry raspberry blueberry organic fresh
Before pitching yeast put it in 10 times the water between 95-105f for 20 min added dash of sugar and yeast started populating before I pitched. You see why I’m in such a conundrum. I read at least 75-100 hrs before beginning my mead adventures two make sure I didn’t screw up. #10 bung double bubbler


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## Mr. Voltering (10 mo ago)

So do you suggest I add another 3 grams or so of rehydrated yeast and another 5lb of honey?
More / less of either?


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## Fivej (Apr 4, 2016)

Everything you did sounds correct. I question your scope. Did you calibrate it? The only other thing is bad yeast. 
Also, when a recipe is for 5 gallons, you don't add 5 gallons of water. You add enough to bring it up to the shoulder or neck of the carboy. But that is not the issue, just info for the future.


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## Fivej (Apr 4, 2016)

You do not need more honey if the yeast is unable to convert the existing honey. Pitch more yeast. Different brand, batch. Have you tasted it? J


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## Fivej (Apr 4, 2016)

I would also get it warmer. I had a cider stall a month ago and wrapped a heating pad around it and pitched more yeast and it restarted. My house is 68 during the day, but gets cold at night. J


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## ShelleyStuart (Jan 4, 2010)

First: slow down. Mead is pretty forgiving and doesn't need instant attention for adjustments. Waiting until tomorrow is not going to make anything worse, and give you time for you (and us) to think this through.

You're going to be fussing with it and end up with 18%+ at this point. According to The Mead Calculator – Got Mead? The Largest Mead Resource on the Web that's what your potential is.

You said it tastes dry, so logically all of the honey you've added has been converted to alcohol. Stir it well and retaste--still dry? (Wonky idea -- have someone else taste it in case your taste buds are fighting covid.) See if your refractometer is working right and if you're reading it correctly -- I had to go through several batches before getting my hydrometer figured out. You gave 1.98 starting gravity; my hydrometer's max is 1.2. At 1.98 I think your yeast would need superpowers to get going.

Most likely I would leave it alone. Rather than add more honey now, let it age, cold crash it or otherwise filter out the yeast (Sparkelloid, bentonite, etc), then backsweeten it so you get your desired residual sugars. If you end up with something that's too potent, you can blend it with another batch that's less potent for balance. Remember that in mead, age is your friend.


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## Mr. Voltering (10 mo ago)

Fivej said:


> Everything you did sounds correct. I question your scope. Did you calibrate it? The only other thing is bad yeast.
> Also, when a recipe is for 5 gallons, you don't add 5 gallons of water. You add enough to bring it up to the shoulder or neck of the carboy. But that is not the issue, just info for the future.


Ya I make a slurry of hot water and all my honey in the carboy then top off. I calibrate it with distilled water as per directions. Idk. I’m gunna pour some out. Add 5lbs honey another 2.5grams rehydrated yeast at 100’f 10xwater with a bit o sugar. For 20 min and pitch then pray


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

Do not not add any more sugar. Does your hydrometer measure #ABV? You may have gotten it sweet enough to stall the fermentation with that yeast. Does your projuect taste sweet? I admit I am confused as to how much fermentables you have added after the initial fermentation. Personally I have never heard anyone counting the potential moisture in the berries in the ingredients. I find it simpler to use a brewing bucket that holds a little more than 8 gallons and has a lid with a gasketed hole for a gas check. Then when you rack off your product, you can fill your carboy after checking with a hydrometer to see how much more fermentables you may want to add. If you go to the gotmead.com sight, you can find a yeast table that will tell you how much honey you need with what specific yeast to obtain a taarget Alcohol by volume. It is cheaper and easier that way if you have a limited supply of honey.


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## Mr. Voltering (10 mo ago)

Vance G said:


> Do not not add any more sugar. Does your hydrometer measure #ABV? You may have gotten it sweet enough to stall the fermentation with that yeast. Does your projuect taste sweet? I admit I am confused as to how much fermentables you have added after the initial fermentation. Personally I have never heard anyone counting the potential moisture in the berries in the ingredients. I find it simpler to use a brewing bucket that holds a little more than 8 gallons and has a lid with a gasketed hole for a gas check. Then when you rack off your product, you can fill your carboy after checking with a hydrometer to see how much more fermentables you may want to add. If you go to the gotmead.com sight, you can find a yeast table that will tell you how much honey you need with what specific yeast to obtain a taarget Alcohol by volume. It is cheaper and easier that way if you have a limited supply of honey.


All I stated was berries are 40% water most people thing their sugar bombs. Their not. It’s not important. An inch and a half of lees on the bottom means something failed. Looking at specific gravity tells me sugar content, I like numbers. And something devoid of sweetness and excessively dry does not have tons of sugar which killed the yeast. Lavalin 71b is known for if you want making super sweet desert wines. Anyway adding 5lbs and 3 grams of yeast in 36 hrs has raised it to 8%abv so I’m obviously not on the wrong track


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## bushpilot (May 14, 2017)

Mr. Voltering said:


> All I stated was berries are 40% water most people thing their sugar bombs. Their not. It’s not important. An inch and a half of lees on the bottom means something failed. Looking at specific gravity tells me sugar content, I like numbers. And something devoid of sweetness and excessively dry does not have tons of sugar which killed the yeast. Lavalin 71b is known for if you want making super sweet desert wines. Anyway adding 5lbs and 3 grams of yeast in 36 hrs has raised it to 8%abv so I’m obviously not on the wrong track


Most of this post makes no sense whatsoever. 

Sorry, after all your posts, I am not able to figure out what you did, and what is happening. I suspect you have added WAY too much honey. 

For your next batch, I would suggest getting a good hydrometer, and learning how to use it. Take an initial reading, that will help you estimate the potential abv. Take a final reading, and the difference between the two will allow you to calculate the actual abv.


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## Mr. Voltering (10 mo ago)

Idk what happened either except that the yeast ate all the obey dropped to lees at the bottom and settled at 4%abv. I have no issues using brix to determine specific gravity. I added 7.5 grams of yeast properly pitched after racking the carboy and added an additional 10lbs of honey. Since doing so the abv has now climbed to 11%abv and is contouring rise as well as residing the specific gravity. The recipe was correct the specific gravity was correct and the yeast pitched was most definitely viable and I can not account for what occurred however my re institution of new yeast and 10lbs of honey has seemed to re awaken the must and everything is proceeding as it should. I haven’t the faintest as to why this occurred, I am a relentless reader and studier of all available sources and contrary to recommendations the steps I’ve take seem to have rectified whatever it is that happened. Once time to rack it again I will re introduce the fruits to help with the complexity of flavors. As of now their are no off putting smells or tastes nor sense of creating something which tastes like rocket fuel. If all goes well I shortly should have a pleaseant melomel betweeen 14-16%abv which I will introduce more fruit too and and give it some time to mature. 
I like my meads, even short meads carbonated. In case someone did not know I’ve been introduced to the the practice of introducing co2 to the beverage without legging equipment and a month of conditioning. The answer pour some in a bottle and use a soda stream machine to infuse the bubbles. Just fyi but it is a much cheaper solution then kegging and much faster than bottle conditioning.
Being who I am I just wanted an answer as to how it could have gone astray under such diligent study, correct sanitation and adherence to exact instructions. 
thanks


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## bushpilot (May 14, 2017)

Mr. Voltering said:


> Idk what happened either except that the yeast ate all the obey dropped to lees at the bottom and settled at 4%abv. I have no issues using brix to determine specific gravity. I added 7.5 grams of yeast properly pitched after racking the carboy and added an additional 10lbs of honey. Since doing so the abv has now climbed to 11%abv and is contouring rise as well as residing the specific gravity. The recipe was correct the specific gravity was correct and the yeast pitched was most definitely viable and I can not account for what occurred however my re institution of new yeast and 10lbs of honey has seemed to re awaken the must and everything is proceeding as it should. I haven’t the faintest as to why this occurred, I am a relentless reader and studier of all available sources and contrary to recommendations the steps I’ve take seem to have rectified whatever it is that happened. Once time to rack it again I will re introduce the fruits to help with the complexity of flavors. As of now their are no off putting smells or tastes nor sense of creating something which tastes like rocket fuel. If all goes well I shortly should have a pleaseant melomel betweeen 14-16%abv which I will introduce more fruit too and and give it some time to mature.
> I like my meads, even short meads carbonated. In case someone did not know I’ve been introduced to the the practice of introducing co2 to the beverage without legging equipment and a month of conditioning. The answer pour some in a bottle and use a soda stream machine to infuse the bubbles. Just fyi but it is a much cheaper solution then kegging and much faster than bottle conditioning.
> Being who I am I just wanted an answer as to how it could have gone astray under such diligent study, correct sanitation and adherence to exact instructions.
> thanks


Again, I have no idea what happened, but I hope it turns out well for you. 

Hydrometers are cheap, and eliminate all the guessing.


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## Mr. Voltering (10 mo ago)

Yes I have access to a hydrometer and prefer to use my scope which determines specific gravity/brix/abv
Thanks it looks like it’s going that way. They only thing I can think of is the yeast grew completely out of control and just about ate dam meds everything


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## Fivej (Apr 4, 2016)

Mr. Voltering said:


> Yes I have access to a hydrometer and prefer to use my scope which determines specific gravity/brix/abv
> Thanks it looks like it’s going that way. They only thing I can think of is the yeast grew completely out of control and just about ate dam meds everything


The confusion begins with your heading of "Outa Control Lavalin". If the yeast consumed all of the sugars, you would have reached the gravity or the potential alcohol determined by your initial gravity or brix reading and alcohol tolerance of the yeast. Not reaching that mark is not out of control yeast, it is underperforming yeast. Adding more sugars would not correct this. I still suspect it stalled or your readings were wrong and by adding more yeast it got going again. Let us know how it turns out. My guess is a high alcohol, sweet mead. J


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## Gino45 (Apr 6, 2012)

The typical mead starts with 3# of honey per gallon of water. You can balance it to get the desired SPG. What I have learned to do is to make pure mead and have it ready to add the hopefully fresh fruit to the played out mead batch. Thus we avoid the issues caused when starting with fruit in the first fermentation. And usually we leave the fruit in for no more than few days, depending on the fruit used, FWIW.


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## Mr. Voltering (10 mo ago)

Well whatever the case sh was 1.1 roughly it finished dry in 8 days 10 grams yeast 16lbs honey. Lees fell out of suspension. I racked it. Added 10lbs of honey and about 4 grams of rehydrated yeast, same batch. It’s progressing nicely. It’s gone from just under 8%abv to almost 11%. Not jet fuel taste. Slightly sweet. I believe it will reach the full potential of 14% some say they’ve achieved 16%. When done I’ll rack it again make a pouch and ant extra sweetness I think will be balanced out by bagging and adding 6lbs of strawberries blueberry blackberry raspberry and sour cherries. I was looking at kegging systems because I like my meads carbonated Esperanto melomel. Kegging equip is expensive and it takes another month. Online I discovered by getting a certain soda stream machine I can bottle some up and force carbonate it instantly a nice trick if it works. I’ll let y’all know


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## Mr. Voltering (10 mo ago)

I hate autocorrect


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## bushpilot (May 14, 2017)

I stand by my previous, learn to use a hydrometer.


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## bushpilot (May 14, 2017)

A bit testy, aren't we...

Please note, I neither used nor implied the words you are using, such as "moron" or "idiot."

Done here, I wish you well.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Note: I have deleted a number of offensive posts from this thread.

And the thread is closed.


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