# Sticky  Feeding a new package or nuc



## grozzie2

RayMarler said:


> OK, now for packages. A package is installed in a box of foundation, or foundationless, or a TBH (top bar hive) and no combs are drawn yet. In this case, put that feeder on and keep it full. What you have is, in essence, a man made swarm of bees that doesn't have any nectar or honey stored in their gut to start drawing new comb immediately. So they'll take that syrup and start drawing comb right away, because the have to, they have no other choice, they have no where to store it. So, as they draw, the queen will many times start laying before the cells are even fully drawn out, so that she beats the house bees to the punch, sort of, as she gets to laying before they have a chance to fill the cells with syrup. In this way, it's OK and proper to put on a feeder and keep it full.


Excellent thoughts, but I'll add just one tidbit on the part about the package.

After you hive the package and they go to town drawing comb, with the queen laying in it, at about the 4 week point in progress, they have essentially become the same as a nuc. They will have a few frames drawn out, brood emerging, and population starting to grow. At this point in time, the greedy little buggers will have no problem plugging the brood nest with nectar if you overfeed them at this point in development, irrelavent of how much comb they have already drawn.

So in essence, for the first 4 weeks after hiving, the package is a very different beast from a nuc, but after 4 weeks, they have essentially grown into being a nuc. It'll be a small colony with brood in all stages, a frame or two of food. a growing population with a laying queen. That is essentially what we always say a nuc should be. The beekeeper mindset needs to change once a package has progressed to the point that the first round of brood is emerging.


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## RayMarler

Thanks you so much grozzie2
Thanks for posting that, I totally agree.
Once they are nuc sized, it's more important to regulate the syrup fed so the queen doesn't get plugged out from room to lay.


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## Murdock

THAT'S great advise. FEED FOR A REASON. Queen laying space should be on everyone's mind when doing an inspection. I hesitate to feed a nuc. I had rather give them a full food frame or two.


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## Verno316

So I just installed a 4 frame Nuc in a 10 frame deep body hive about 2 weeks ago. I put a 2 gallon feeder of 1:1 on top last week because I had watched a video that said that would help them draw out comb on the other 6 frames. Should I be taking it off and just leaving the bees to figure it out for now?


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## grozzie2

Lift the frame out that is centered in the brood nest where capped brood is emerging and a patch has emerged. If those cells now have eggs, or are empty and polished, leave the feeder. If those cells now have nectar / syrup in them, take off the feeder. In the short term, the bees do need carbohydrates (sugar) to make wax and build comb, but in the longer term, they need brood as the young house bees are the wax makers.


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## Verno316

There see.ed to be a lot of liquid filled cells so I took the feeder out for now. Thanks for the advice!


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## Spur9

Agree 100%. Time of year and population can play a significant part whether a colony needs food assistance. I had a large swarm on 5/16. I called my neighbor who bought a couple of nucs this year and asked him if he wanted to hive it for his yard. He came over and we hived the swarm in an 8 frame deep. That box was stuffed with bees. Bees also on the outside hanging.

I suggested that he not feed this swarm. Reasons being that we were in the middle of a nectar flow and it was a STRONG swarm. I added that it would not take long (1-2 weeks) for the bees to draw out the frames and then he could add a 2nd deep. I suggested that he inspect in a week and if he saw nectar in cells, then he might think about continuing to delay feeding. 

He called me this weekend. He went into the hive and the drawn out frames (7 total) were packed with liquid food. A few small patches of worker brood. I asked him if he fed them. Yep, been feeding since day 1. Filled up a 2 gallon feeder twice. His mentor told him to "feed them bees 'till they won't take anymore".

So he spent the rest of the day cutting out queen cells. He could not successfully find the queen or evidence of recent laying. I suggested that he leave a single frame with queen cells. I attached a pic of the cells that he removed. He left a frame with 9 cells in the hive.

In my opinion, this was caused by plugging up the hive with sugar syrup in addition to copius amounts of nectar being foraged. He may lose half his bees as result.


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## Spur9

Here is the frame that he left with cells. He said all the frames had food like this.


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## Gray Goose

those look a bit like E cells, any chance the queen was damaged during an inspection?

GG


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## Spur9

Gray Goose said:


> those look a bit like E cells, any chance the queen was damaged during an inspection?
> 
> GG


That is certainly a possibility. Other than hiving the swarm and transporting to his yard, the only time that he opened them up was a week prior to him cutting out the cells. And he said that he saw queen cells then. 

46 emergency cells might be a record!!!


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## SeaCucumber

Spur9 said:


> He left a frame with 9 cells in the hive.


Every tutorial I've seen on doing an artificial swarm says that if you leave multiple queen cells in the original spot, they will swarm. I wouldn't cut the queen cells so close at the base. Why cut so many out? With uneven QC quality, I thought you'd want many in each mating nuc.


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## Spur9

No artificial swarm was being made nor mating nucs created. Cells left were all together on a single frame. That way the queen emerging first doesn’t have to travel far to take care of the rest. All the others removed were done so because it decreases the risk of multiple virgin queens in the hive at once and numerous swarms. Keep in mind that he did not see a queen nor signs of recent laying. The cells left were in case the hive is queenless.


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## SeaCucumber

A frame of cells sounds better than 1. More QCs per queen should make it more likely a good one will hatch.
I would've used the discarded queen cells.


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## Tanawei

I appreciate all the information that has been shared. It is very helpful. I received a package five weeks ago. I am in West Central Texas (Runnels County). I have brood and honey on seven frames (not complete but getting there.) I am feeding internally. I would like to manage a single brood box. I would also like to add a super so that the bees can start adding comb. I have read that you don’t add a super while feeding. I am not as interested in taking honey this year as I am in the bees over-wintering successfully. Should i continue to feed in an empty brood box on top of the super or just add the super and stop feeding. I am not sure about pollen and nectar availability through July and August. Thanks!


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## RayMarler

Tanawei,
I'm guessing that the super you have to add is frames of foundation? No drawn comb? In that case, and given the information of your goals, I'd say to continue feeding if you add a super. Adding a super of undrawn frames is work to the bees, not necessarily expansion room, especially if low or slow or no flows are on. Feeding makes it all better, they'll draw the combs more readily.


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## Cherp

I recently got a new package of bees from a bee removal. This is my first hive ever. My mentor told me to feed them syrup, which I have been doing. I got my bees on Sunday and fed them with a baggy feeder at first, until I received the feeder I ordered. The feeder I received is an "in hive" feeder & came with no assembly instructions. When I looked on their website, it wasn't the same model (the ladders were completely different), so no instructions for my model. There were no videos on the internet either, so I tried to assemble it the way that seemed right to me. When I hung it in the hive, the bees had not made any comb and were bearded all over the lid and sides of the super (which I needed to add for the baggy feeder). So I was unable to take the super off. LATER that night I began thinking and realized I put the feeder together wrong. The ladders weren't correctly assembled - or at least I don't think so. I was up most the night worrying that I was drowning tons of my bees! I want to go in and remove the feeder and fix the problem with the ladders, but I'm worried about opening it back up so soon. I read that you shouldn't bother your new bees for the first week or they might abscond! Should I leave it and let bees drown, or should I remove it and fix it? It's only been 3 days since I got them and I've already disturbed them once (yesterday). Thank you.


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## RayMarler

Yes Cherp, I would say to go in and fix up the feeder. I never hesitate to open a hive if I realize or know that something is amiss and needs to be fixed inside of it. Opening the hive doesn't set them back all that much. The setback also depends on just how much you tear it apart and bang it around (or not) when inspecting.


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