# Too late for split July 16th?



## Andrew Dewey (Aug 23, 2005)

Way too late if you are thinking of having them raise their own queen. Even if you were to introduce a queen, I think you'd be too late. Maybe some people who live near you will comment. I went to college in Geneva. The big concern is that you will be feeding the split non stop until winter and even then they might not put enough stores by to successfully over winter.


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## Joe Hillmann (Apr 27, 2015)

I plan to split all of my hives the last week of July and let them raise their own queen. Once the goldenrod bloom is over I will start feeding. I figure if more than half survive the winter I will come out ahead and from the ones that don't survive i will have more drawn comb for splits in the spring.

I did a split last year July 25th with only 4 drawn medium frames and didn't feed them and they just barely made it through the winter. By the time winter started they had around a total of 14 medium frames drawn and only about 8 frames had honey. I figure if I feed them they should have much better chances.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

Surely if you have the bee resources to do so buy them a local
mated queen. They will struggle to build up if you allow them to make
their own queen. In a short season environment you have to do things in a hurry
for the bees to overwinter better. Make the splits with more bees and a new queen.
Feed them well until the late flow.


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## Ravenseye (Apr 2, 2006)

It's not ideal but you can. I would feed and watch carefully. Definitely give them a mated and laying queen. You can always combine in the fall if things don't work out.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

I still have several hundred to make, I hope not. Purchased queens. Keep them warm, no silly holes in the bottom and feed pollen sub and sugar non stop till they are there.


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## m0dem (May 14, 2016)

Kirk Webster splits off nucs in July I believe.
http://kirkwebster.com
But he uses queens he has raised and mated.


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## JWChesnut (Jul 31, 2013)

My comment on the late summer "walk away" style split starts a different thread.

http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...ergency-Queen-quot-trap&p=1447515#post1447515


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## Dunkel (Jun 12, 2009)

I say go for it. Mated queens would hedge your bet, as would pulled comb. Now if you choose to actually let them raise their own, I would let my best raise the queen cells and use them in the splits as they turn out. 

I made up 11 nucs this week using some capped swarm cells. When they get mated I will increase their numbers then. This is during a flow, hopefully no robbing and I'm not feeding either. Now I will split larger hives once we are finished and have mated queens. Also having all hives pull a little foundation doesn't take as much now as it will in a month.

Just weigh the odds you feel comfortable with. Accept what you choose. Then go for it.


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## Riverderwent (May 23, 2013)

Dan. NY said:


> Thoughts??


I'd be thinking how, not whether. Include some stores with the split. Keep the entrance small. Use a laying queen if you can get one. If you can't, enjoy the brood break, supplement with some additional brood and more empty drawn comb in a couple of weeks, and do a resplit with an extra cell to allow for failure of one of the virgins to return from her mating flight.


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## beepro (Dec 31, 2012)

If you have some Spring queens in the nucs then this
process is much easier to make up some strong split nucs for overwintering.
Using the Spring queens to head the hives that will boost the after the solstice
newly mated queens hives. Mel's method works for me since the mite level is close to nil now.


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## m0dem (May 14, 2016)

Riverderwent said:


> I'd be thinking how, not whether. Include some stores with the split. Keep the entrance small. Use a laying queen if you can get one. If you can't, enjoy the brood break, supplement with some additional brood and more empty drawn comb in a couple of weeks, and do a resplit with an extra cell to allow for failure of one of the virgins to return from her mating flight.


:thumbsup:
especially the resplit thing. That's a good idea.


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## Andrew Dewey (Aug 23, 2005)

Vance G said:


> I still have several hundred to make, I hope not. Purchased queens. Keep them warm, no silly holes in the bottom and feed pollen sub and sugar non stop till they are there.


Vance - Great Falls and NY State are two very different places.


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