# Do you know why bees form hexagon shaped cells?



## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

Not sure of the answer. BUT if you take drops or water, nectar or whatever which form basically 0's and you place them all around each other, then push them together...............you could get a hexagon.....


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## AChabot (Sep 24, 2012)

"The hexagonal shape of cells is common among cell-building social insects, and there is a sound architectural reason for this style. Round, octagonal, or pentagonal cell arrangements leave empty spaces between cells, and triangles or squares have a greater circumference than hexagons. Thus, the greatest number of cells per area can be arranged in comb using the hexagonal shape." (Winston, 1987). And yes, on natural comb they stagger the construction back to back, so you get the two Ys.


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## jwbee (Aug 8, 2012)

There are two possible explanations for the reason that honeycomb is composed of hexagons, rather than any other shape. One, given by Jan Brożek and proved much later by Thomas Hales, is that the hexagon tiles the plane with minimal surface area. Thus, a hexagonal structure uses the least material to create a lattice of cells within a given volume. Another, given by D'Arcy Wentworth Thompson, is that the shape simply results from the process of individual bees putting cells together: somewhat analogous to the boundary shapes created in a field of soap bubbles. In support of this, he notes that queen cells, which are constructed singly, are irregular and lumpy with no apparent attempt at efficiency


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## snl (Nov 20, 2009)

AChabot said:


> "The hexagonal shape of cells is common among cell-building social insects, and there is a sound architectural reason for this style.


What do bees know about sound architectural reason?


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

snl said:


> What do bees know about sound architectural reason?


It is apparent that they know that ....


AChabot said:


> "Thus, the greatest number of cells per area can be arranged in comb using the hexagonal shape." (Winston, 1987).


This would also mean that they are using their wax resources in the most efficient manner. And in the long term, organisms using their available resources most efficiently may out-compete similar organisms that don't use their resources as efficiently.

Just my opinion, of course.  No links to back this up today. inch:


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## jrbbees (Apr 4, 2010)

Maybe they just didn't know any better.
But just think how much it has helped us design some things the light and strong.
Nah! Just dumb bugs!


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## Mbeck (Apr 27, 2011)

Rader Sidetrack said:


> This would also mean that they are using their wax resources in the most efficient manner


I have a couple of Hives that need to be reminded of this!


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Open a box of straws and you will see the same thing. They aren't really hexagonal they are cylinders. Ever follow a truck load of pipe down the road? Same pattern.


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## jdmidwest (Jul 9, 2012)

sqkcrk said:


> Open a box of straws and you will see the same thing. They aren't really hexagonal they are cylinders. Ever follow a truck load of pipe down the road? Same pattern.


Why doesn't man make pipes and straws hexagonal?


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## Tyson Kaiser (Nov 28, 2012)

snl said:


> Not sure of the answer. BUT if you take drops or water, nectar or whatever which form basically 0's and you place them all around each other, then push them together...............you could get a hexagon.....


This, absolutely. Bees do NOT make hexagonal cells, it a process called tessellation. Consider soap bubbles piling up against each other, they will form sides where they meet and this will determine the shape of each soap bubble. Bee cells are round, look at one without considering the sides where they butt up against each other- round as Nature gets. The placement of the "y" might have more to do with the bottom of the cell as it relates to the other side of the comb, the bubble bottom of one side of the cell fitting in the hollow on the other side of the comb in a staggered formation. Looking at a cross-section of comb could possibly show this. It's more about economy of space and careful use of resources than creating pretty 6-sided cells. And tessellation.

Tyson


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

u funny.

Clay tiles, which used to be used for drain pipe back in the olden days were hexagonal, on the outside.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Tyson Kaiser said:


> This, absolutely. Bees do NOT make hexagonal cells, it a process called tessellation. Consider soap bubbles piling up against each other, they will form sides where they meet and this will determine the shape of each soap bubble. Bee cells are round, look at one without considering the sides where they butt up against each other- round as Nature gets. The placement of the "y" might have more to do with the bottom of the cell as it relates to the other side of the comb, the bubble bottom of one side of the cell fitting in the hollow on the other side of the comb in a staggered formation. Looking at a cross-section of comb could possibly show this. It's more about economy of space and careful use of resources than creating pretty 6-sided cells. And tessellation.
> 
> Tyson


Economic use of space and structurally strong.


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## psfred (Jul 16, 2011)

I suspect the bees make them hexagonal because anything else would use more wax for less cell space. Pretty much happens by itself as the wax is quite soft when made, and the bees pushing, pulling, and otherwise working the wax will make hexagons out of rows of cells.

Queen cells and drone cells between frames are more round, but they also don't have six cells around them -- bet they'd be hexagonal if that was the case.

I've read somewhere that the bees actually don't make the cells hexagonal at all, they make them round with common walls, and the wax "flows" into a hexagon. Could be. The top is always round at any rate.

Peter


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Peter, they appear hexagonal, but are cylindrical. Otherwise, wouldn't we have hexagonal shaped bees instead of round ones?


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## SilverBack (Dec 10, 2011)

Why a hexagon? Because bees can't count to 7.


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## D Semple (Jun 18, 2010)

Do you know why bees form hexagon shaped cells?

Magnified view of a bees eye:


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## Mr.Beeman (May 19, 2012)

Getting back to the posters original question....... 

I have never looked at the bottom of the cell patterns close enough to notice a difference in the "Y" pattern you are speaking of. I'm not even sure there could be a difference given the shape of the cell structure.
Interesting enough question though.


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## Mike Gillmore (Feb 25, 2006)

Housel Positioning of the "Y" in cells

http://www.beesource.com/point-of-v...ning-how-i-view-its-importance-to-beekeeping/


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

psfred said:


> I suspect the bees make them hexagonal because anything else would use more wax for less cell space. Pretty much happens by itself as the wax is quite soft when made, and the bees pushing, pulling, and otherwise working the wax will make hexagons out of rows of cells.


I think they make hexagonal cells because they know. I don't think there is any morphing going on.


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## Jim 134 (Dec 1, 2007)

oldforte said:


> Looking through one cell of a foundation... from one side you see an inverted Y ...looking through the other side you see a normal Y.
> It has been said that the inverted side always faces the center of the hive in a naturally formed comb without a starting foundation.
> Is this true? And is it true that in a bee made comb you see the same inverted and normal Y?


http://www.beesource.com/point-of-vi...to-beekeeping/ 


IMHO Bee have bee doing this for 1000in's of year's 




BEE HAPPY Jim 134


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## TheBuzz (Feb 8, 2012)

Hexagon is the most efficient shape for the bees' living and storing of food. It also provides maximum strength.

.


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

I read something like this recently, don't remember where. It stated the bees made the cells more round but they become flat where they meat each other. Since the wax isn't really fluid I don't know if its correct.



Tyson Kaiser said:


> This, absolutely. Bees do NOT make hexagonal cells, it a process called tessellation. Consider soap bubbles piling up against each other, they will form sides where they meet and this will determine the shape of each soap bubble. Bee cells are round, look at one without considering the sides where they butt up against each other- round as Nature gets. The placement of the "y" might have more to do with the bottom of the cell as it relates to the other side of the comb, the bubble bottom of one side of the cell fitting in the hollow on the other side of the comb in a staggered formation. Looking at a cross-section of comb could possibly show this. It's more about economy of space and careful use of resources than creating pretty 6-sided cells. And tessellation.
> 
> Tyson


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

A time lapse camera could solve all the guess work.


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## oldforte (Jul 17, 2009)

If is true about the Y shape at the bottom of the cell....and it is... the bees started the cell in a hex shape....not round and then pushed together...unless they start with a hex...then make it round...then push it together...think they are lot smarter than that.


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## Tyson Kaiser (Nov 28, 2012)

The y shape is the bottom of the other side of the comb, between cells. It simply reflects the tessellation pattern, just through the other side and staggered so that from the cell you are looking it fits a corresponding hollow created by the other side. If you were to transpose both sides in one view, the cells wouldn't line up together, they would be offset by half both longitudinal and latitudinal. I'm really wishing I had some animation skills because I can see it in my head fine but have a hell of a time explaining it. 

Another way to think of tessellation is picture holding a huge number of drinking straws in one fist. In between the straws the hexagonal shape will take place, but not within the straws, which remain round. Bees are really just filling in the space between the cells, not creating hexagons.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Tyson Kaiser said:


> Bees are really just filling in the space between the cells, not creating hexagons.


I don't think so.


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## Tyson Kaiser (Nov 28, 2012)

Acebird said:


> I don't think so.


Oh. Why?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Acebird said:


> I don't think so.


Brian, r u saying that you believe that the interior of each cell is hexagonal and not round?


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

Acebird said:


> I don't think so.


Do we really need "I don't think so" or "I think so"? Cut the cell in half from a piece of comb and look at it. You won't have to "think" then. How hard can that be for an engineer?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Or simply look at dry pollen pellets from cells in the comb and you will see how round they are, not hexagonal.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

Yes Mark.
http://i697.photobucket.com/albums/vv333/acebird1/Bee Hive/DeadHive014.jpg
I don't know if you can magnify this photo but I can and the cells that were used for brood are round but the cell was first made hexagon shape like the ones next to the brood used for honey storage. If the bees use the cells for brood they thicken the walls and fill in the apex's but it had to start out hexagon shape or there would be air voids between adjacent cells.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

There is structurally no difference between brood cells and honey cells. If there were different cells in a beehive bees wouldn't use them interchangebly, would they?


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## oldforte (Jul 17, 2009)

www.ask.com/wiki/Tessellation
this definition does not explain how a circle is transformed into a hex shape. It just defines any shaped polygon that completely covers a plane...without spaces inbetween. If the Y pattern is formed at the bottom of the cell....the bees started the cell with sides.


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## Tyson Kaiser (Nov 28, 2012)

oldforte said:


> www.ask.com/wiki/Tessellation
> this definition does not explain how a circle is transformed into a hex shape. It just defines any shaped polygon that completely covers a plane...without spaces inbetween


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tessellation
The wiki uses comb as a natural example of tessellation. 

I think of it like this: bees are creating a space for holding brood, pollen etc. the space they are making can be considered the positive space, the area they are intentionally making. The spaces around those spaces is the negative space, not in the sence that it is useless, but that that it is the area between the intentional spaces, which are round.

I think I'd like to get some fresh comb today a loupe and look hard into a cell being built. If what you say about them starting with a hexagon and them turning into a round space then hexagonal walls should be visible in the unfinished cells.


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## Jim 134 (Dec 1, 2007)

Barry said:


> Do we really need "I don't think so" or "I think so"? Cut the cell in half from a piece of comb and look at it. You won't have to "think" then. How hard can that be for an engineer?


 Barry......
That is to simple for (Acebird) the engineer 




BEE HAPPY Jim 134


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## AmericasBeekeeper (Jan 24, 2010)

Ehh! They are Italians they only have six legs. That means they can only count to six for those that are Italian.


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## jwbee (Aug 8, 2012)

Well , I'm sitting here with a peice of empty comb in front of me , in fact , I just took a close up of it to share.

I can clearly see the flat sides from top to bottom , so it is definitely hexagonal , not "round but appearing hexagonal" as some suggest.

It started out hexagonal at the bottom , and ended up hexagonal at the top.

And I have no hexagonal bees.

Maybe nobody told my bees they are doing it wrong.


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

There you go, issue closed!!


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

I have heard so many explanations for this over many many years I cannot remember all of them. One thing that is always consistent its that it is an efficient use of material to gain strength and minimize loss of storage space. Man does not copy it for water or sewer pipes because we are not filling water and sewer pipes with something and storing it stacked up on shelves. Water pipes have there pour pose and need to withstand stresses they are subjected to. a round pipe is more suited to that. such as not crushing due to compaction of soil over them as heavy equipment drives over. Not bursting at 60 P.S.I which is what a typical home water pressure is. Honey comb is not subjected to just weight from the side or even pressure from inside as much as it is subjected to pressure from every side. It also needs to withstand the force of gravity on the contents it contains as well as the contents of every cell around it. This si a subject of energy transferance. It is interesting to see how the hex works in regard to this. a circle stacked on a circle for example is transferring all the pressure of it's weight on a very then point on any circle under it. A circle that is set between two circles below it is transferring its weight to two small strips one to each circle below it. But a hex is actually transferring it's weight to two other cells but across a broad surface on each. This means much thinner walls can support the same weight. IT also has another interest transferance effect in that the weight of combs above are not on the cell directly below. but that pressure is actually sread aut across the comb at an angle These things we know. but how the bee comes to knowing it or using it, I have heard many many reasons. it is a result of them trying to make a circle and having to find some answer for the empty spaces. I have heard it is the result of them laying out the footprint of the next cell with their front legs. that shortest distance from foot to foot is a straight line. But my favorite is that it is their punishment for having ticked off some god or another. that is the one I am sticking with. Like the spider is the result of a maiden more fair than Athena forever cursed to weave the finest of thread.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Daniel Y said:


> ..... But my favorite is that it is their punishment for having ticked off some god or another.


Apparently Beesource members have ticked off that same god and this is our punishment ... 

:ws:


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## Tyson Kaiser (Nov 28, 2012)

Barry said:


> There you go, issue closed!!


I'm always willing to be wrong!


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## jrhoto (Mar 2, 2009)

bees use these hexagonal cells for strength and maxium storage space.



www.poorvalleybeefarm.com


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## Aerindel (Apr 14, 2012)

Yeah, its seems utterly obvious to me. Its the best shape for the application as is the case with any process that is the result of millions of years of trial and error.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> There is structurally no difference between brood cells and honey cells.


Well there certainly is. I think you are confusing the fact that bees will use any cell to store honey but if the cell was never used for brood it will always be hexagon. It structurally makes no sense to make circular cells and then morph them into a hexagon. It would consume more wax and be weaker than a hexagon made from scratch. However, it does make sense to make a hexagon cell and then modify it for brood.


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## BeeGhost (May 7, 2011)

My bees don't make hexagon cells, or round ones. They make triangle ones.

Would this abnormality mean they are succumbing to varroa mites, or is it that I heated the water to one degree above boiling and tainted the sugar syrup?

I can't believe this is happening to my topbarlang hive where I had the frames narrowed down to 1 11/3456 of an inch.


My guess is this is the slow time if the year for beekeepers!


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

Brian, Regardless of the fact that queens will lay in cells previously occupied by honey and worker bees will fill cells w/ honey or pollen which were previously filled w/ eggs?


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

Acebird said:


> I think you are confusing the fact that bees will use any cell to store honey but if the cell was never used for brood it will always be hexagon. .... However, it does make sense to make a hexagon cell and then modify it for brood.


One little problem with your theory, the image below is _clearly _brood comb, and the interior of the cells are *not round, *they are hex shaped. Surely even an engineer can see that. 











Image linked from http://www.honeybeesuite.com/mixed-brood-comb/

opcorn:


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

Rader, Center bottom of that photo is a bee pointing head down. in line with the end of his abdomen look two sells to the right. That is a cell that has 5 sides.

I pin this out because what I am seeing is a transition from brood comb to honey. And much of the comb in that area is distorted as a result.
I don't see hex cells. I see the appearance of hexagons as the result of many cylinders being joined together. and there is a thicker wax in the gap where any three cylinders meet.The gaps that woudl normally form between cylinders grouped like this woudl already be small. on a bees comb scale they are so small that by the time you have 3 points all meeting each other. the gap getting filled is almost unavoidable.

An example of how a cylinder or circle matches to a hex. look at the cap at the end of a bic ballpoint pen. the cheap plastic one. the body of the pen is a hex. the cap is obviously a circle. the match does not leave a whole lot of point sticking out at each corner of the hex. Now divide that by three because the material that fills the gap between cells is three of these point meeting. I am thinking that it will be pretty hard to see that the appearance of hex shape is nothing more than a minute thickening of the wax at each corner. but the bore of the cell is a cylinder.


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## Acebird (Mar 17, 2011)

sqkcrk said:


> Brian, Regardless of the fact that queens will lay in cells previously occupied by honey and worker bees will fill cells w/ honey or pollen which were previously filled w/ eggs?


I am not understanding your question.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

Which came first the bee or the egg?

That is the question.


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## Daniel Y (Sep 12, 2011)

FlowerPlanter said:


> Which came first the bee or the egg?
> 
> That is the question.


Obviously the cell geeesh.


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## BeeCurious (Aug 7, 2007)

Call me old fashioned, but I am more comfortable with the simplicity of Gregory of Nazianzus 329-389ad

This-worketh virgin waxen comb, 
Six sided pipes to form her home, 
The which, inspired by duty 
She weaves and dovetails, all in fine
Neat handiwork, that doth combine 
Security with beauty





That doth do it for me...


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## bevy's honeybees (Apr 21, 2011)

D Semple said:


> Do you know why bees form hexagon shaped cells?
> 
> Magnified view of a bees eye:


That is so cool!


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## Jim 134 (Dec 1, 2007)

sqkcrk said:


> Brian, Regardless of the fact that queens will lay in cells previously occupied by honey and worker bees will fill cells w/ honey or pollen which were previously filled w/ eggs?


Do you forget one water :scratch:


BEE HAPPY Jim 134


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