# Truck Recommendations?



## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

Get the brand name crap out of your head! The components are mostly all made in the same place. You don't need pretty, you need LOW overhead. Have you thought of a trailer for your existing truck? You could buy a trailer that would do you way cheaper than even making your truck a flatbed. They are nice and low to work off too! Any payment you don't have to make pays for a lot of fuel.


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## HONEYDEW (Mar 9, 2007)

Isuzu NPR 16' or so flatbed with a four cylinder turbo diesel and auto trans., And they are cheap to keep on the road and to purchase


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

Is this for moving hives or mainly for supering? If it's for moving hives then you want something that has power. If it's just for supering, pulling honey, checking out yards then you can go with a 4 cylinder Nissan or Toyota P/U, build a cheap flat bed and do really well. Buy used. I drive a 91 Chevy flatbed one ton with a 454...needless to say it get's poor gas milage, but I only paid 2k for it and it has never even come close to getting stuck in spring mud with a full load. 

Good luck


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## Macon (Nov 8, 2010)

A good V6 would work like the new Toyotas or one of the older s10 p/u that have the 4.3 in them. 

Most V8 are not going to get you the gas mileage. But you are pulling stuff I would stick with the truck you got.


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

Heres the deal...the truck is my parents (I am all of 17.5) and I really need to get my own set of wheels. My main thing on this truck (would get another one in a heartbeat) is that I can never tie down loads just right (cannot mod my parents truck) and that the towing capacity is like 5k...no skidder hauling there! Really want something to grow into. I do have a trailer...but having a trailer is such a pain when you are getting in tight yards. If anything I would just get a flatbed trailer...but then we get back to the hauling capacity of my truck. 
So my main needs are-
Something that I could drive to school/town when needed (about 20 miles each way)
Something that gets good enough mileage to check yards 45 minutes away while still having the towing capacity to haul a skidder (hopefully sometime in 2012 I will get one). 
Something that is relatively easy to work on with parts that do not cost a gazzilion bucks.
Something that I could mount a flatbed on if i want it...if I do put a flatbed on I will add a box to it. 
Something in the under 6-7k range as far as price (know there is not a whole lot but that is all I can spend)

Help?

Mike


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

I believe that "good mileage" and "towing a skidstear" are mutually exclusive. We run a 1982 turbo diesel Vanagon that gets 30-32 mpg and hauls 1400 lbs for making the rounds before supering, and fall packing. It is rear engined, so it does not need Four wheel drive, and does less damage to the land than a heavy pickup. For hauling supers and barrels of feed, we have a 1977 Grumann Kurbmaster, built on a 1 ton chassis, with a floater rear axle. Got it for a dollar, with a "bad engine"(50 dollars for parts , and a new seat in the head, runs good now). It gets 10 mpg, and gets limited miles. 

Can you fix your own vehicles? That may be a big consideration in your choices.

Crazy Roland


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## alpha6 (May 12, 2008)

From what you are saying, it looks like you should go with a good 6 cy 4x4 pickup that is either a flatbed or one you can build. You won't get the best milage, but you can still haul things. Buying older you can get in cheaper which gives you more money to modify it and will also lower your insurance costs, especially since you are 17.5. If you can try and register your truck as a farm truck if your state allows this. It can also cut down on your insurance and gives you some flexability when hauling certain loads. Right now is a great time to buy used as lots of people are selling extra vehicles. If you can find an old fleet truck, they usually have good maintenance records so you can track how they were treated.

good luck.


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## Merlinspop (Nov 4, 2010)

When I was used truck shopping, I made a habit of checking GSA's auction site weekly. There are a lot of clunkers there, but if you are diligent, you can also find some great deals. You DO have to go get what you buy though.

Good luck!

B


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## Live Oak (Oct 11, 2008)

Kingfisher Apiaries said:


> Thinking something along the lines of a 3/4 dodge or chevy (not a Flat on the road dead lol). Want to start researching now.


Drop the Chevy choice and go with the Dodge if you want better fuel economy. I would suggest a Dodge Ram 2500 Quad Cab 4x4 Cummins diesel with a manual NV5600 6 speed transmission in the year range of 2001.5 to 2002. These are the best 2 year models for this particular models with the 24 valve engines. Properly tuned and running, these trucks can get between 18 to 26 mpg depending upon the load and speed being driven. 

There are a few things to be aware of on these trucks such as:

the VP-44 fuel injection pump and fuel lift pump (these issues can be addressed by a number of fuel system and lift pump upgrades)

http://mopar.mopar1973man.com/cummins/2ndgen24v/2ndgen24v.htm

http://mopar.mopar1973man.com/personal/2002/airdog-150/airdog-150.htm

and 53 series engine block (if the truck has one DON'T buy it or pay SUBSTANTILLY less)

http://www.stamey.info/Truck/Cummins53BlockFAQ.htm 

The 1998 and 1998.5 trucks that came with the 12 valve Cummins B series engine are also a very good choice but may require more maintenance depending upon the previous owner. 

The BIG issue with these trucks is the engine front timing cover locator dowel pin or "killer dowel pin (KDP).

http://mopar.mopar1973man.com/cummins/general/kdp/kdp.htm

and the NV4500 manual 5 speed 5th gear nut issue.

http://mopar.mopar1973man.com/cummins/general/5th-gear/5th-gear.htm

These trucks have their short comings in OEM stock trim as do most all the other brands. The Cummins engine in the vehicles and years mentioned abouve are in my opinion is the best diesel engine for pickups currently on the market. 

I own 2 of them.......a 2001.5 for the wife and a 2002 for me. 

I suggest you join or at least monitor and read a number of the web forums on the net that cover the various diesel pickups. I did for about 3 years while learning about each brand and model as well as the maintenace particulars for each. For me the Dodge Cummins pickup was a total no brainer. 

The newer common rail (CR) diesels being offered by all of the US pickup manufacturers are much more advanced and do run smoother and quieter but they have ALL had horrible problems with fuel injectors, EGR systems, and exhaust problems effecting or damaging the turbo charger(s). 

The 12 valve Cummins is the easiest and simplest to work on and the 24 valve is more fuel efficient provided you make some basic and fairly simple fuel system modifications. 

The wife's truck is stock except for the upgraded fuel lines from 5/16" ID to 1/2" ID and an Airtex OEM style fuel lift pump that we relocated to the truck frame just below the fuel tank. 

My truck has the upgraded 1/2" fuel lines, Air Dog 150 (gal. per hour) fuel air separator pump, Formula 1 90 hp. EDM fuel injectors, Edge EZ, BHAF upgraded air filter with turbo heat shield, Cummins eBrake (exhaust brake), and 5 inch turbo back exhaust. 

Both of our trucks averate 20 to 22 mpg around town & local driving. On the highway with no load and keeping the cruise speed below 55 mph, they both get between 24 to 26 mpg. 

If you drive like the rest of humanity in a hurry at 75 to 80 mph, the fuel mileage falls like a Simmonize piano to around 12 to 14 mpg. Optimum speed for best fuel economy for these trucks is about 45 mph and fuel economy falls off from there due to increased aerodynamic drag. 

These trucks are not the highest hp or fastest in OEM stock trim however with the proper upgrades they are the best at pulling a load/hauling while at the same time being the most economical on fuel. 

All of these trucks in my opinion require a set of in cab gauges the provide at the minium, fuel system pressure. My gauges in the cab provide fuel lift pump system pressure, turbo charger engine boost pressure, and exhaust gas temperature. (EGT) If you leave the engine stock, a good quality lift pump fuel system pressure gauge is all the is really required. That is the only extra non OEM gauge in the wife's truck. When it drops below a certain pressure, she tells me and I know to change the fuel filter. 

Diesels are not for everyone but I love mine.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Good post, Live Oak. It pays to do your home work on what goes wrong, and anticipate problems. Your suggestions are probably more mainstream than mine.
Was it Sutton that talked of the Case(Cummins) engine in a Ford?



Crazy Roland


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

Keep the suggestions going...thanks live oak. When I say good milage I mean in the range of 20 mpg with no or light load. 
Anyone want to talk about diesel vs gas on 3/4 ton?

mike


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

Any thoughts on something like this-http://easttexas.craigslist.org/grd/2284970775.html


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## HONEYDEW (Mar 9, 2007)

Kingfisher Apiaries said:


> Any thoughts on something like this-http://easttexas.craigslist.org/grd/2284970775.html


 I'd stick with a Toyota v-6 flatbed for now, that 454 with these gas prices will make sure you never get your loader. If you did get a v-6 Toyota make sure the head gaskets are good or have had the factory recall work done on them, I guess there was a problem with the 90's head gaskets. But the "1 ton" flatbeds can haul a fair amount for what they are....


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## Ted Kretschmann (Feb 2, 2011)

Mike, it is not that the mileage of Diesel vs Gasoline. It is the wear factor. A gas guzzler will start to wear out at 100,000 miles. A diesel engine does not really come into its own till 150,000+ miles. I have a dodge one ton flat bed-1997 model with 284,000 miles on it. I expect to get half of that again before I rebuild the engine. So you can go and purchase ONE diesel truck or purchase three gas burners for the same period lifetime of the diesel truck. I would recommend dodge with a cummings diesel engine. Hey, girls like big trucks and bees now days. (I sell quite a few nucs to young women) It was not the case when I was your age. So your girl friend will also enjoy riding in your diesel truck when you go to your beeyards. TK


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## Live Oak (Oct 11, 2008)

Kingfisher Apiaries said:


> Any thoughts on something like this-http://easttexas.craigslist.org/grd/2284970775.html


You can expect in the 10 to 12 mpg range with a truck like that. The 454 is a stout engine but it is a gas toilet.


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## beemandan (Dec 5, 2005)

Kingfisher Apiaries said:


> I am all of 17.5....and I really need to get my own set of wheels.


One consideration that it seems you are overlooking.....
Will this truck be something you'd take a girl to the prom/dinner/movie/dance in?
We may be beekeepers but we still need to keep our priorities in order here.


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## swarm_trapper (Jun 19, 2003)

i would go with a dodge cummins one ton. I have one and a few of my beekeeper friends have one. 
They will pull the load, with a 12ft bed you can haul 64 hives, and when empty i can get 15mpg driving around town. 
And they last quite well mine is 5,000MI shy of 400,000 mi. I would go with the manual transmission. You should be able to pick up a 99-02 year truck for under 6,000.


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

Well...dont have a girlfriend (am homeschooled and we do not do that stuff) and do not plan to for a while yet...that is just how we do things....
This would strictly be a work truck.....why would i go out and get a v-6 toyota and when i already have a v-8?

mike


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

My thought is to get a mid 90s 1 ton and a small honda car for running the no haul trips to town (could also still take the toyota to check yards)...any thoughts on this...would i be better off getting a nicer truck for the same money that is newer but is smaller?

Thanks

Mike


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Listen to Ted and Swarm trapper on the cummins diesel. They are built to last. 

Have you done your homework on how much you will need each kind of vehicle? How many miles are your routes? How many trips a year? What would the costs be for different vehicles to accomplish this? 

I see your v-8 pickup as a rather poor tool. too big to be efficient, and too small to haul much weight. 

Will a car handle the offroad work? I know it would not last long going to our yards, you pan would be left behind.

Crazy Roland


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

Car would work well for my farthest yard...there we can pull right up or ride the farmer's RTV back..the other yards are 15 miles or less. The car would be for going to town on business, going to college, etc. Trucks would only be used when needed. 
On the truck we have that is exactly what i was thinking roland.


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

It takes 2 trucks for us.. one a Toyota Tacoma (96) and the other a GMC6500 (2002). We use the Toyota on almost a daily basis in combination with a trailer. We can sit 1/2 a tote with a trash pump on the back and feed tough to get to yards. With the diesel we can haul pallets and sit multiple totes on it to pick up HFCS. We've actually got an old beat up wrangler that we use to haul syrup around a nuc yard, but we could just as easily use a tractor.
Those guys are not kidding about the diesel engine... wish we could find one of those small pickups with a diesel engine like I have seen all over mexico.


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## HONEYDEW (Mar 9, 2007)

Kingfisher Apiaries said:


> .....why would i go out and get a v-6 Toyota and when i already have a v-8?


 Money boy Money, Unless your daddy's rollin in the dough and you plan on living at home forever someday soon with gas inching its way to five a gallon, and diesel even closer someday your going to half to worry about more than bees...although thats hard to imagine at 17.5..........wait a minute scratch everything I just saw your from TX everyone has an oil well in their backyard so fuel doesn't matter sorry


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## Tim Stewart (Jul 19, 2009)

Get a truck you can grow into, like a dodge cummins with duallies. Cummins will last forever, get decent mileage, and are easy to work on. 24 valve for better mileage, 12 valve for easier fix, your pick. My truck is an f350 with a gas 5.8 and a 10.5' aluminum flatbed with a gooseneck hitch in case I get bigger before I get a bigger truck. Longer bed mean more hives, but they'll have to be lighter. 

Tim


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## Ted Kretschmann (Feb 2, 2011)

Mike, I also have a 7000 series diesel ford truck that I use for the big loads and pulling a bobcat and trailer at the same time. But that you can get later in life. Right now find a good dodge cummings. Something you will have for many years of good service. And get manual transmission on ANY type truck you get. Automatics just do not last in the transmission. TED


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## Ted Kretschmann (Feb 2, 2011)

HPM, I would love to find one of those Little diesel ISUZU pickup trucks. 40 miles to the gallon of diesel and would go any where. But for some strange reason the US government seem to kill the sales of this vehicle.inch: So much for fuel economy., TED


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## hpm08161947 (May 16, 2009)

Yup.. the little ISUZU diesel.... that is what I saw south of the border. Wish I knew the politics that are keeping this pickup out of the country... must be pretty interesting. I have been told that it is EPA standards... but I can not believe they couldn't fix that. Must be a whopper of a tariff on them.


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

HONEYDEW said:


> Money boy Money, Unless your daddy's rollin in the dough and you plan on living at home forever someday soon with gas inching its way to five a gallon, and diesel even closer someday your going to half to worry about more than bees...although thats hard to imagine at 17.5..........wait a minute scratch everything I just saw your from TX everyone has an oil well in their backyard so fuel doesn't matter sorry


Going to be at home another couple of years...just looking at the immediate needs....another dead-weight truck is not going to help me. I need something that can pull its own weight lol. Plus this is going to be a work truck so everything is a right-off. If i want a personal vehicle I will get a honda or toyota car in a year or so..right now that is really low on the list. Don't think you really get my situation. 
mike


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

ya have seen those little trucks. What a shame
Has anybody seen those older toyota dually diesels? Any good? hardly see them around.

mike


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## Ted Kretschmann (Feb 2, 2011)

Well, mike, you decided on a truck yet??? I would sell you mine but that would kind of put a crimp in my beekeeping plans for the year. Still try to find a good used diesel flat bed, something you can grow with. TED


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

I have been recommended to go with the cummins in a dodge by my pastors son/mechanic...My second choice will be a chevy 350 or 454....
Do keep the suggestions rollin in!
mike


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## Bsweet (Apr 9, 2010)

So KF,are you going to go pollen chasing and move your hives alot or are you setting up your yards for honey production ? Might make a diff. on what you need in a truck. Jim


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## Adrian Quiney WI (Sep 14, 2007)

Gas is getting more expensive. At your present level of operation would a station wagon make more sense? How many miles a week, personal versus beework, are you going to drive. You could get a station wagon, and then use your parents' vehicles for the heavier stuff. I agree with the poster that said keeping the overhead down is key in a small operation. My station wagon is not pretty or cool (1999 Saturn) but I regularly get 36-40 mpg from it. I can use my wife's minivan for anything heavy. Ouch! Minivan, even more uncool, but very good for hauling most anything.


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

My point is that i do not have a truck that is powerful enough to do what i am doing.....I do not want another small vehicle...otherwise I would just use my parents vehicles (which they would rather me do anyways). In addition to the truck we have a newer van that we drive to bee meetings and town...that helps some. 
I can do my own work and know how to work on vehicles (or know where to get help)....I just changed the oil on the toyota truck...12800 miles and 14 months later! I know how to play the game!
Any more suggestions on TRUCKS LOL
Thanks All,
mike


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

Let me also say the reason I am starting to look....For one who knows what inflation could do over the next couple of years. Also, the market right now is a buyers market...because of fuel prices. I would be using it so little (as in 200-300 miles a month average) that the gas would not be so bad...plus everything is a write off...
Mike


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

Anybody? 

Mike


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## FarmerFrazier (Oct 12, 2010)

Diesel, 1 ton, I've driven all flavors. Dodge is nice, I do like the engine brake on the newer ones. I prefer an automatic myself now, I've never managed to kill one in a 1 ton. I have mostly driven company trucks, so if they are manual, they are sloppy (from bad drivers/employees). 

You really need to think about what your typical load will be. Sure you have 50 hives, working to 500 or more. How many would you actually be hauling at a time within the few years? How long do you plan to keep it? Another option would be to buy used, drive it 1-2years, sell and repeat.


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## Apiator (Apr 8, 2011)

Short and sweet -- diesel engine, manual transmission. 

Avoid: older GM & Ford with normally aspirated diesels (no power at all), and Fords with the first year of the 6.0 Powerstroke, which was 2000 or 2001 I think. Automatic transmissions won't hold up long to the diesel torque. Can't go wrong with the Cummins, or the 7.3 Fords. Duramax is ok, but not impressed by the rest of the Chevy truck.

I'm one of those people who scratch their heads in wonder as to WHY anyone would buy a full size truck with a gas engine. They must like throwing money away.


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## WG Bee Farm (Jan 29, 2005)

Kingfisher, I have not seen where you are including weight as a factor. What average weight per hive have you been calculating for your truck requirements???


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

average 100-150 each...do not hardly haul doubles or triples. If I do I haul them on trailer with a dolly 
Mike


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## Ted Kretschmann (Feb 2, 2011)

Still NO truck yet???? When you buy one I want to see pictures of it posted here so we all can see it!!! TED


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

Ted, you will have to send me a check before i can get one LOL
I found a 1997 Chevy 454. Leather, crew cab, flatbed, auto (which i need), nice paint job, nice interior. Its 5K OBO and looks good all around.
Cons- rebuild trans and engine, some rust on the underside...

Any thoughts?
Mike


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## jim lyon (Feb 19, 2006)

Apiator said:


> I'm one of those people who scratch their heads in wonder as to WHY anyone would buy a full size truck with a gas engine. They must like throwing money away.


Why? Here is the math as I see it based on my experience of owning quite a number of diesels. At 12000 miles per year a one ton sized diesel will cost about $4000 a year to run while a gas powered unit will cost around $5000. The diesel option is about an $8000 dollar option when buying new, a little less as they age. When one factors in the additional sales tax, insurance, and cost of money for the additional investment (at 5% around $400 per year) one could easily calculate the payback on your investment at 15 plus years. Then there is the great myth of diesel reliability, they are great until you have trouble, then you had better head to the bank and talk to your loan officer cause it ain't gonna be cheap. If you are going to work them hard, load them heavy and run them a lot of miles almost all the time then go for it, and it docent make much difference which one you buy (as long as it isnt a Ford 6.oh no which I believe started about 2003) if not save your money.


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

I have heard horror stories about diesel issues costing huge $$$. I talked with my pastors son (who is also my mechanic) and he said with the 454 vs the Diesel it may come out to the same as far as fuel cost...
Jim knows me, and knows that i really do not need a large diesel...i just need a entry level flatbed. I really would rather go with gas b/c that is what i am used to. Diesel would be one more thing for me to learn and figure out.....
mike


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## soupcan (Jan 2, 2005)

Try to order a New F-350 or 450 cab & chassis with a V10 & see how long the wait is!!!
Real tough to beat the Ford V10 & the $$$$ is a bunch cheeper than the Diesel with about the same powerl!!!


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

I like the GMC 454. It has the power you need. I have an 85 1 ton with (near as I can tell) over 300,000 on it. Its parked now(finally) with carb problems(darn quadrajet). But that truck MADE money. Even at 8 mpg.Hey you aren't gonna drive that truck to the grocery store every day. You are buying it to carry a load and that load is what pays the bills. So forget the mpg.
If the rebuild was good then that means you wont have to do it.

I don't like anything other than a regular cab in a bee truck. Make sure the bed is wide enough for pallets.Other than the crewcab, I would take a look at the truck if it was close to me.


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

I see some good deals on F450s with the V 10. But heard horror stories about head gasket failures and spitting out spark plugs(not enough threads on an aluminum head).


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## Barry (Dec 28, 1999)

The Ford v10's have had a great track record. I've used them since the were first made in '99, in three different trucks. They're used in fleet trucks a lot and again, have heard firsthand good reports.


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## sevenmmm (Mar 5, 2011)

I am now reading the book Fifty Years among the Bees by CC Miller. He has a very nice picture of his mode of transportation. 

Similar to this:


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## loggermike (Jul 23, 2000)

Thats good to hear Barry. Its hard to weigh the info going around on the net. A few unhappy customers can skew the data.

I admit the spark plug stories scared me away from what might have been a great deal on a used F450.


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

Here is what i drive-
January- Trips to get lumber, 50 miles
- take bees to someone to ship to almonds, 200 miles
- check on yards-50 miles MAYBE
Febuary- Lumber and checking on yards, 250 miles
March- Spliting and working yards- 200 miles
Picking up hives from #3 in January, 200 Miles
April- Splitting/working yards- 300 miles
May- Working yards- 200 miles
June- Working yards- 150 miles
July- "" - 100 miles
August-"" - 150 miles
September- splitting and working yards- 200 miles
October " " - 150 miles
November- Working Yards-50 miles 
December- Working Yards- 50 Miles
Total- 2300 Miles (less 400 if no almond deal = 1900)
Gas or Diesel? LOL
mike


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## soupcan (Jan 2, 2005)

Some V10's & other Ford V8's had some spark plug/head gasket problems but not that many.
Darn good ole work horse that can get some good MPG for the 2 extra buckets you got to feed


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## Apiator (Apr 8, 2011)

Kingfisher Apiaries said:


> Total- 2300 Miles (less 400 if no almond deal = 1900)
> Gas or Diesel? LOL
> mike



Okay Mike... this isn't a lifetime commitment. You're not getting married... tho plenty of people jump into that with considerably less forethought. 

Just buy a truck. That truck will teach you what you want, and what you don't want, in a truck. Then you sell it and buy the one you should have.


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## Stonefly7 (Nov 3, 2005)

Really Mike, I want to know what you got so I can learn from your likes/dislikes. Well? About 200 post ago someone mentioned a beek from GA? who had a real nice rig for sale! I found him several days ago, but can not recall his name.

kind regards


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## Kingfisher Apiaries (Jan 16, 2010)

Nothing yet...will need to save more money...read post ##1. But have close to enough!
mike


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