# Next Gen Bee Vacuum



## TexasFreedom (Feb 25, 2016)

After making the typical shop-vac bee vacuum and lifting & setting it up over and over, I decided to get serious about making an EASY to use bee vacuum. After over a year of tweaking it, I’m just about there.

I wanted to ask around and see if I’m missing anything. I’ve had a couple of fellow BKs try it & gotten good feedback, but one or two opinions doesn’t touch the wisdom here on this forum. Of course a picture is worth 1000 words, you can see an early version in this picture (neighbor took it getting a colony out of his uncle’s house, really angry colony). 








Here’s the list of features:
•	Battery operated, runs 2+hours with 1.5 lb battery + battery status LEDs
•	“Backpack” design (under 10 lbs total weight, everything including hose)
•	Variable vacuum pressure knob
•	5 gallon capacity and Interchangeable ‘tanks’ for large colonies
•	Direct deposit of bees into Langstroth (don’t need to let any fly free in transferring to their new home)
•	Large screen for air (avoid suffocation) when off + ‘driving home’ mode (cycling air flow)
•	Affordable

I put a lot of work into it. Found a quality DC vacuum. Found high-amp lithium ion batteries. Designed a custom circuit with a micro-controller to handle the power. One nice thing is that with it on my back, no need for long hoses (I use a 4 ft hose) for minimal bee injuries. And very few dead bees, near zero any more. “Setup” is 2 seconds (insert hose). OK, add 5 seconds to put straps over my shoulders.

You’ll get a chuckle out of what I’ve nicknamed it. BBBV. Bad Back Bee Vac. Got tired of lifting all that lumber & fighting with straps! I know, a video would really help to show it in action. I’ll have to do that next.

Thoughts?


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## BigGun (Oct 27, 2011)

Excellent idea. I've got something similar but mines 110 and suction control is by duct tape. I'd like to see more.


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## brushwoodnursery (Feb 10, 2012)

Great!!! Please show more pics! Here's mine: http://www.beesource.com/forums/album.php?albumid=499
Not quite your level of genius but it serves well. I named it Marla Beevac (some will understand). The mini shopvac fits nicely inside the 5 gallon bucket stack for storage.


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## TexasFreedom (Feb 25, 2016)

Thanks BigGun. 

Brushwoodnursery, I've seen your approach. It's easier than lifting all the lumber, but 110v-AC is a problem. I've used 100 ft, 200 ft of extension. And even worse I've had to run around with a generator. Lifting that into the pickup bed, ugh! My first 'design' used an old RV vacuum. It was small but loud.

The worst thing for me would be forgetting a part. One of the hoses, the top, the bottom, extra straps, you name it. I ended up with a 'checklist'. Now it's better... but not foolproof. Only 2 things: vacuum & the hose. And guess what? 2 weeks ago I went to do a cutout, made it 2 miles & realized I forgot the hose! (deep sigh)

OK, I made a short video this morning. Only took 10 minutes to make it, and living out in the country, it's taking 2 hours to upload. I'll post it when it's finished uploading.


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

Been thinking along those lines. I've been considering using off the shelf stuff and putting it in a single easily carried box, but a backpack might be good.

A swarm collection expert in our club has been working on better bee vacs for a while, and has come to some conclusions.

1) Bees were being injured in most of his early efforts.

2) You really want less suction than a full-powered shop vac. Which makes me think a 12V vacuum is a good choice.

3) Bees were injured by corrugated hose. On my present effort I'm trying clear vinyl tubes and setting up the fittings so there are no protrusions into the airflow. I'm running my tube into the collection bucket and holding it from the outside, rather than using a barb. Alternatively, you could use a short length of larger diameter tube with a barb, and push the smaller diameter collection hose thru so the bees never hit the barb.

4) Bees were injured by hitting the collection chamber back wall too hard. He rigged an angled deflector. I'm trying an inch of sponge rubber on the back wall.


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## TexasFreedom (Feb 25, 2016)

Here is the video showing the basics of the video: https://youtu.be/9ZE8yiCc_H4

All of my hives are wild-caught and don't take kindly to getting vacuumed. I can do it if is important to see now, otherwise I'll try to video with the next cutout I do (likely over the next month). But videoing a real cutout will show how few bees die, and how I use things to put all of it together. Let me know if there are any issues watching the video/link... I'm not a youtube guru...


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## bchains (Mar 22, 2015)

TexasFreedom said:


> I wanted to ask around and see if I’m missing anything.


SEE THROUGH BUCKETS!! 

I've always thought it would be cool to use a transparent system so you could see how the bees are doing, how full the bucket is getting, etc. I've found "natural" semi-translucent buckets from car wash places but they aren't really clear enough to see the bees. 

There are a few places in China on alibaba.com that sell them, but nobody will sell just a few - the minimum order quantity is always like 1000. They will ship you a free sample but you pay shipping, which from China is like $60. The other consideration is that the top diameter may not exactly fit a bucket top vac... but with your vac module this does not matter.

See for example:

https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...l?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.285.b0604abUw81h6

https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...ml?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.58.b0604abUw81h6

Congrats on what looks to be an awesome design. 

bryan


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## brushwoodnursery (Feb 10, 2012)

The problem with a clear bucket will be the greenhouse effect on a hot sunny day. Even white will build heat.


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## TexasFreedom (Feb 25, 2016)

I've thought about looking at the bees. Just as you both mentioned, getting a 'clear' window can be done but is not simple.

Instead, in about 5 seconds I have that. Turn off the vacuum, pull the containment bucket off the vacuum bucket, and I have the 6" screen to look inside. It's not perfect, but bees will cover any window you create. If light get inside, they'll cover it. If they're covering the bottom screen, a thump of the bucket will clear them enough to see inside.

It does take a few extra seconds, but it is a reasonable way. Also, I've found that I can 'feel' the weight. Remember I'm usually carrying it. The whole thing weighs 10 lbs. Taking the vacuum/battery off, and the containment bucket weighs under 4 lbs. So if I have 4 lbs or 8 lbs of bees, it's fairly obvious once you've used it a few times.

I should also address some of the things Phoebee mentioned. When I first tested this, like everyone I had too much vacuum & killed lots of bees. Made a numbe of changes. For example, did you notice the white foam attached to the screening inside the bucket? It is the 'landing pad' for when the bees come in from the hose.

For the hose, I tried a smooth rigid hose. The problem is that it simply doesn't flex enough. If someone can recommend a hose type that is flexible, I'd love to try it. Too small of a diameter hose & the bees clog. I found that the key to minimize injury isn't smooth vs corregated hose, but rather a short hose. And the only way to get there is to carry the containment bucket.

PS: I answered the older comments and forgot the newest! Yup, heat build-up. Note I'm in central Texas, I know heat. I address that 3 ways.
1. I can lower the speed of the vacuum to as little as blowing in my wife's ear. Just dial down the flow rate to whatever you want. And at low air speed, the battery will run 20 hours (or more?).
2. I can remove the containment bucket, and I've got a healthy 6" diameter screen end for natural air exchange.
3. I can use my lang cover, and put the bucket on so the bees can walk down into their brood. I'll put a screened bottom board, the brood in a medium or deep, and the cover. 2 straps. Then bucket on top. I usually put this on the passenger seat driving home, and by the time I get home 95% have already moved down. And almost zero bees flying around in the vehicle!


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## Phoebee (Jan 29, 2014)

I watched the video and have a couple of questions.

How does that foam pad on the side provide a landing pad for the bees?

That *-shaped opening in the bottom of the capture bucket does not appear to stop bees. Is there a screen over it?

My smaller version uses 8 1 1/4" holes in the bottom of the capture bucket, with foam covering them, and cloth over the foam. Bees can't get thru the foam so I don't need a screen, and the hose directs the bees into the foam.

Slick battery, controller, and vacuum motor setup! That ought to be easy to kit up or sell as a ready-to-install package. It would have other applications than just bee vacuums.


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## TexasFreedom (Feb 25, 2016)

Phoebee,

Good questions.
Landing pad. Remember that the buck is horizontal in normal use. So the bees come in from the side, falling downward hitting the foam pad. I've recently added this part. To be honest, I don't know that this is really necessary. I've just had the wire around the sides with near-zero dead bees. But it could prevent injuries, which I won't really see. But the bees will decelerate once they exit the hose, and likely land on other bees (who will start climbing up the sides). No matter which system you have, bees will be landing on top of bees.

*-shaped opening. Took me a minute to figure out what you were referring to! You mean the screened bottom of the bucket. Yes, there is screening across it. The * part is there for structural support, sandwiching the screen in place. 

I hadn't thought of selling this as a 'kit'. It sure would ship easily. Cutting some of it out would take additional skills, but I could identify what is needed where. 

I hadn't thought of what else it could be used for, but again you have a great point. Yup, anyone wanting to throttle a 12v load with high amps (I think my components can handle 30+ amps, NOT tested to there!) could use this. 

Most expensive part was the battery, finding a Lithium Ion battery that was rated for the 10+ amp load without dying prematurely doubled/tripled the price. But it works great, worth it! I do need to just charge up a battery, and let it run out until the battery is drained. And repeat with a 1/2-throttled motor (where I usually set it). I know it's gone 2+ hours. At first I would turn it on/off, or slow mode. Now I just leave it at 1/2 throttle for the whole time. And for the velcro idea, 100% credit goes to my wife.


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## brushwoodnursery (Feb 10, 2012)

Is that a PWM circuit for the throttle? I added one to a battery operated blower to gently launch beneficial insects over my plants. Works great but I don't think my old Craftsman 18v batteries would last like your unit.


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## TexasFreedom (Feb 25, 2016)

Yes, I use a micro controller to pulse power to the vacuum. I've not been much of a lithium ion battery fan until I got some of those Cree LED lights with the 18650 batteries. 

The nice thing with a controller is that I can get it to do lots of other things. For example reading the battery level & displaying it. Or I have the option to add something remote. For example a remote switch if that is handy (without the heavy gauge wiring of a true switch). I played with having a remote sensor that would actually read the vacuum pressure and adjust to that, but I found it unnecessary.

I'm a big fan of efficiency. Sure, I could get twice the battery. But twice the weight & probably twice the price. But I designed a very efficient FET PWM along with using the right-sized vacuum. I looked at some over-the-counter PWM's, but nothing could really do the job right.


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## heaflaw (Feb 26, 2007)

I'll buy one


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## Adam Foster Collins (Nov 4, 2009)

That is pretty sweet. If the price is right, I'd buy one too.


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## TexasFreedom (Feb 25, 2016)

I would like to get some hands-on opinions from folks other than friends. I know how friendship goes, they don't want to hurt feelings and don't always say what they think.

I can make 2 or 3 extra of these. I have 2 extra circuits already assembled and have a third I can finish. ( I always make extra raw circuit boards because the first one seems to always be bad, 2nd gets blown up, 3rd works, and the 4th is used to verify if a problem is in board #3 or something else, surprisingly I didn't have any failures on this one). There are a couple of other parts that I'll need to order extra, but I can have them in a week or two.

I added up my costs (not counting time, basically parts & shipping them), these first 2 or 3 I could sell for $200. That would include everything, including shipping (within 48 states!). All of it from the hose, containment bucket, vacuum bucket, vacuum, circuit, 1 battery. All assembled & ready to plug in the battery. Only thing not included would be the 10-frame Lang cover/adapter. But that's a 3" PVC fitting mounting in plexiglass/plywood. It'd make the shipping box twice the size. But I can include a few inches of 3" PVC so you wouldn't need to get that. Is that a reasonable price?

I thought about the 'kit', but cutting some of the buckets made a BIG difference in performance. Rather than having you cut things & not be happy, let me do the first ones.

And the key thing is I'd like to get feedback in the next month or so from real use. Help me work out any kinks in the design I missed. And if you get it & hate it, send it back & I'll give you your money back other than my shipping cost.

Hopefully I'm not violating any policies on this forum. If people like it, & others want them, I'll pay for a real ad in the 'for sale' area.

PS: A "duh!" moment. Is anyone going to be at the TBA convention in Temple, TX this weekend? I'm planning to be there Saturday, I can bring it up & let you do a hands-on check. Won't have a cut-out handy, but hands-on can be a great start.


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## brushwoodnursery (Feb 10, 2012)

OK, happy to add my 2 cents. I'm a home engineer tinkerer type, too. Right off the bat, I loved it! However, the exposed circuitry and wiring need to be made more secure. My brain went immediately to a small battery blower like the smaller one from dewalt (because I have their 20V batteries already) that has adjustable speeds. It would be bulkier than your setup but everything's mounted and covered. Could you do a piece of bucket as a cover to protect them? Can you mount the speed control on the side/top to make it easier to reach?
Also, does the loading funnel and 3" adapter need to be involved? I just thump the bees down and then pour them in. (I don't do a lot of cutouts, so i might be too novice to know)


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## TexasFreedom (Feb 25, 2016)

Sometimes it's easier to answer with a video. Note, 640x480, lower res than before, but it uploaded in only 15 minutes, not 2 hours!
https://youtu.be/1UvTFb_qblA

BrushwoodNursery, I've answered, or more like elaborated on your comments questions. 

You can see where my earlier design did exactly what you said, a 'bucket' to cover the vacuum. But to get to the connectors/knob, i had to mount the circuit still on the outside. I could mount just the knob on the outside, & cable it down to a connector on the circuit. And still have the rest of the circuit 'protected'. Only thing to reach in for is on/off switch. I also want to add a pigtail to plug the charger in, so I don't need to unplug the battery to charge it.

But watch the video & let me know what you think.
Thanks


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## brushwoodnursery (Feb 10, 2012)

I like all of that. Leave as much as you can inside a protected housing. Pigtail for charging is great, too. Maybe even a socket mounted to the cover; again to avoid dangling wires. Can the control circuit be changed to have the speed switch include a full shutoff? Then you could mount some sort of grille over the cover hole that only needs to be opened for service, not use.


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## TexasFreedom (Feb 25, 2016)

BWN,

You have no idea how difficult what you are saying is to hear. My wife has told me over and over (and over) that I need to put the circuit/motor under a 'protective' cover. I've resisted, you have no idea how hard (on a man's ego) it is to hear this.

My main motives have been extra weight, size, and less 'balance'. But sigh... Hey, can I get a 3rd, 4th, or 5th opinion here? (help!)

The speed control and on/off are two separate functions, but both could be mounted remotely on the cover. Actually if I redesign the circuit, I could make those back-side mounted and just precise-drill holes for them to protrude through the cover. That would make it easier. 3 things: On/Off; speed control, and charger plug-in.

Also note that a large opening would be needed in the 'cover'. Couple of reasons. First, need air exit for the vacuum. Also, need a large access point to remove the battery. If someone was doing multiple removals in one day, it would allow for reaching in, unplugging it from the circuit, removing and replacing it. Or more likely, I can see times when I forgot to recharge the battery (it happens...).

One interesting note is that I can often tell that I've caught the queen by more workers going to the vacuum exhaust and smelling her. Note I screen that off to prevent them from clogging it up.


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## brushwoodnursery (Feb 10, 2012)

I agree: switch, speed control and a socket for the charger all on the outside wall. Can you mount all of the guts on the inside of a half-bucket so you're not adding weight but actually removing weight in the redesign? Mount the motor/fan over the exit point of the half bucket.
You'd have to figure out a stop of some sort to keep the catch bucket from mashing down on the guts. Then there's the diameter difference of a 5gal not fully seated into another 5gal. Maybe a foam rubber gasket? So, then your whole thing is just a half bucket or less that rides on the catch bucket. You'd have to figure out the strap attaching to the top of the catch bucket but that's easy. Hey, you wouldn't have to add a charging socket to the outside because it wouldn't need to be mounted to the catch bucket while charging anyway.

On the flexible PVC: I really like that since it will significantly reduce internal turbulence. 

On the loading funnel and clear plate: I think, since you have the pad and screening in there for the bees, it won't dump like a plain bucket and having them crawl in using your system makes more sense to me with the clarity of morning coffee in me. 

What about a bunch of small holes in the bottom of the catch bucket instead of a screen and retainer? It will increase labor drilling them but reduce input cost. It wouldn't have to be a lot for flow for the vacuum but you'd want a lot for keeping the bees cool before they load themselves into the Lang.


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## texanbelchers (Aug 4, 2014)

Just a couple of thoughts...

I like the half bucket for weight reduction.

Put everything inside the half bucket and make it seal to the catch bucket. I assume the vacuum can be a blower out the side.

Use a single pot with an on-off switch on the same stem. They would be wired to the circuit board as required. It is a very simple mount out the side of the half bucket.

Leave the bottom of the housing bucket clear so it will stand normally.

Maybe add ears so you can stand on them to remove the catch bucket. They would need to collapse or rotate so they don't catch on things.


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## brushwoodnursery (Feb 10, 2012)

texanbelchers said:


> Just a couple of thoughts...
> 
> I like the half bucket for weight reduction.
> 
> ...


Nice ideas!


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## RBRamsey (Mar 1, 2015)

I like your basic design. I have been working on using the dewalt portable vacuum. I like it because it uses both the and old dewalt batteries and 120v. I want a back pack design also. I Have been working on a variable speed controller for it, but it is more complicated with dc and ac control. Working with the top half of the dewalt vacuum has proven to be hell to fabricate a different bottom, because it is not flat.

My goals:
A backpack design that is comfortable to wear for several hours.
It has to run on battery, but would be great to also run on 120v. 
It has to have interchangeable catch box with integrated gate (I use a basic blast gate design. Its there and not forgotten at home.).
It has to have easy to get to the controls.
It has to have a temperature readout of the catch box.
It should be easy to clean.
It should be weatherized.


As for the hose, I use the 1-1/4" pool hose. It is flexible and slick on the inside. You can get it at Lowes by the foot. I agree the shorter the hose the better. My first vacuum box had a 20' foot hose, and It would clog up constantly, and when it clogs it kills bees.


I am interested in buying your vacuum and controller.


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## brushwoodnursery (Feb 10, 2012)

RBR, I used this https://www.ebay.com/itm/301390515744 to do speed control on my Craftsman 18V blower as mentioned above. Works great! Managed to fit it into the existing housing, too. Probably room on your vacuum for it but then you couldn't reach it on your back. Maybe strap it to the hose and extend a cable? Put a small LED readout on the same mount.

Who You Gonna Call?


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## RBRamsey (Mar 1, 2015)

BWN, thanks 

I would still like the vacuum motor Texan has also. It would save me from more trial and error on finding one strong enough and still efficient.


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## TexasFreedom (Feb 25, 2016)

Wow, great discussion. I really appreciate everyone's input here.

Let me try to hit each item individually.

1/2 bucket idea. I've been there & got the T-shirt! First, the 'motor' part of the vacuum had to be on the non-vacuum side (outside the bucket). On the 2nd video ( https://youtu.be/1UvTFb_qblA ), at 20-seconds in you see me touch the vacuum motor, at 53 seconds you see a side-view, showing how the motor is sticking out 3" or so. The 'exhaust' of the vacuum is covered with #8 wire. But with part of the motor sticking out, that requires 2 buckets. 2 to form the 'vacuum' side, mated to the containment bucket. And a second (or something else) to cover the motor/circuit.

I've been whining too much. I'm clearly going to delete my previous post's comments (before my wife sees them!), bite the bullet, admit that I was wrr, wwwrrrr, wwwwwwrrrrrong. Oh Lord God above that is so hard to say sometimes (and I'll be deleting this paragraph 100% guaranteed! She can't be seeing me talk/write in such terms.).

Oh, note that the pressure knob cannot function as the on/off switch. The on/off switch is acting as disconnect to the main power (up to 15 amps). The knob is an analog input defining how hard to drive the vacuum. I'm sure a combo switch exists but it will be expensive. Instead, how about this. 

OK, 2 buckets. The first will need to be the full bucket. Lots of reasons, I can revisit this. But let's start there. 2nd bottom cover is basically a 1/3rd height bucket. It has a hole in the bottom a bit bigger than you see in my 'old' design (white buckets) in the video at time 1:11. Big enough to easily extract the battery, and the battery inside the cavity (between full & 1/2 buckets). Also inside that cavity will go the vacuum and circuit as mounted in the new design (yellow buckets). The on/off switch can either stay where it's at (you only turn it on when you first start the job). But the pressure knob can get mounted to the side wall of the 1/2 bucket. So when vacuuming , it'll be on the 'top' of the bucket and easy to reach back & adjust (but honestly I hardly ever do that any more, you'll have to use it a while to really experience that). Remember that the bucket sits left-to-right on the small of your back, you can reach the two ends easily (if I can reach them, anyone can reach them!). And the pressure knob is wired down to the circuit (next spin of the circuit I can make make it a connector for easy plug-in).

Ramsey had a good point, sometimes you will simply want to run off 120vAC. An AC/DC adapter would work. Probably in the $20-30 range. I could velcro it in, exactly where the batteries goes. Probably about the same weight. And you drag around an extension cord. Note you can use even an 18 ga extension cord as it's not drawing much power (1-2 amps?), you don't want a long 12v wire as it's 10+amps.

Ramsey also asked about interchangeable catch box. I'm calling that the 'containment bucket'. Look at my first video ( https://youtu.be/9ZE8yiCc_H4 ), 10 seconds in you see how I remove the containment bucket. It has the connector for the hose on it. At 3:00 into it you see me remove the 3" adapter-to-hose piece. I have a 3" PVC fitting that goes right into that opening & closes it off quickly & easily (but of course I didn't show that part). Then grab another containment bucket, plug the hose in, and keep going.

Third idea, Ramsey mentioned temperature. That gets more complicated and I don't think it's really necessary. Touch the containment bucket, you can feel the temperature. Ah, gloves... OK, plan B. A containment bucket has a 6.5" screened bottom, sitting by itself (not in the sun!) it should be OK. Not the screen I put in there, it lets the bees crawl up the sides to spread out. Since doing that I've had near zero dead bees. IF you want to keep air flowing, just set the vacuum to it's lowest setting. It moves about as much as as blowing in my wife's ear (and it'll run 10+ hours in this speed on battery). But a 2-digit temperature display would add $20. Hey, how about this for anyone that really needs this. Tie-warp a cheap thermometer to the bottom screen. It'll block minimal airflow. But you can quickly look at it & see how hot they are. And it's $1? Just thinking out loud.

And weatherized? OK, a little sprinkle won't do anything. Don't submerge and you'll be just fine. You won't be working bees in a heavy rain (Ok, sane folks won't, so maybe a few of us will on occasion, be reasonable). 

For cleaning, it's 5 gallon buckets. Inside screen slides out. No-brainer.

What is a 'blast gate'? I'm assuming it's a ... Nope, let me not use that word. Please define.

I'll ask again, anyone going to Temple TX for the TBA convention tomorrow? I'm going & will bring it.

Thanks


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## RBRamsey (Mar 1, 2015)

Texan,

One of the last bee removals I done was on a 100% humidity weekend. I lost a double handful of bees, and I attributed it temperature. When I probed it with a thermometer, they were about 105 degrees. This was while the vacuum was running. I switched out the box, and put a small fan on the box to keep them cool. I was overheating that day.

The reason I use a thermometer, not really why I am vacuuming, but after the box is removed. Temperature can rise fairly quickly. I've thought about installing a small fan in each box for the trip home. It is not often, but when I remove some the larger hives, I've filled 3 boxes each weighing 3-4lbs each. So the first box is sitting for a few hours. This is when I've seen the most death. I'll spritz them with .5:1 syrup. Granted, by you using a 5gal bucket you can hold more bees a time then my scheme, but I would think you would see temp problems also.

Currently I use a instant read thermometer like:
https://www.amazon.com/Taylor-3512-Precision-Instant-Thermometer/dp/B000I21NEC/ref=zg_bs_289809_20?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=Q4X0WVW99K1JJEB41AR5

You are correct , that once you get your vacuum adjusted, rarely will you need to readjust.

I would use the blast gate as a built in valve to seal my "containment bucket"
https://www.homedepot.com/p/POWERTEC-2-1-2-in-Blast-Gate-for-Vacuum-Dust-Collector-70133/207141280
I make mine myself out of luan or plexiglass. My current containment bucket is an old double-wide 3lb package boxes. When I get home, I just put the whole box in a hive and walk off.


My current version of a beevac is wooden, and not a portable as I want, it is made from a deep hive body that will hold a double wide 3lb package box. I played around with some other designs, they didn't make the cut. That's why I listed my goals, I see they are similar to yours. We both are coming about it from a different point of view, but are looking for similar features. 

BTW, I will be at the convention tomorrow... It's a little to far for me. lol.


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## TexasFreedom (Feb 25, 2016)

RBRamsey said:


> BTW, I will be at the convention tomorrow... It's a little to far for me. lol.


I assume you're missing a 'not' in there... too bad!


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## TexasFreedom (Feb 25, 2016)

RBRamsey said:


> One of the last bee removals I done was on a 100% humidity weekend. I lost a double handful of bees, and I attributed it temperature. When I probed it with a thermometer, they were about 105 degrees. This was while the vacuum was running. I switched out the box, and put a small fan on the box to keep them cool. I was overheating that day.


I wanted to ask more about the first part. Obviously the problem was not moving air. I suspect a key problem for you that day was how the bees 'pile' into your vac. Imagine you're at the bottom of the pile of guys at the goal line trying to gain the last 6" for a TD. 6 or 8 guys with their weight on top of you, compressing your chest and blocking all air flow. You could suffocate! Same with the bees. If you have 3" deep of bees on the floor of your container, the ones on top don't realize there's a problem and the ones on bottom can't get out to breathe. The heat builds up and no air movement to take it away. Your 105F reading was probably 120F at the bottom bee.

I had this problem with my first version. I went through a few 'methods' before I got to what I'm using now. Note I have over 4 square feet of surface area inside the bucket with ease for the bees to climb on almost all of it. And note that vibration can knock down many bees trying to climb, but my small vac doesn't vibrate like a shopvac would.

And remember, I often mate the bucket with the Lang holding their brood. Under the brood I have a screened bottom board (closed entrance), and prop that on some open-topped boxes so air can flow from below up through the Lang & then up through the bucket. The smell of the brood draw down the colony. I had tried smaller pipe sizes, & 3" was the smallest that reliably didn't clog & prevent the colony from moving down. The 2 1/2" blast gate you reference won't quite cut it (at least not always). And black really sucks in the heat.

Note that we can go 100 days at 100F here in central Texas. Not the humidity you have, but the brutal sun takes me out. I'll often leave the minivan running, & sit down inside for a few minutes every 20-30 minutes to prevent me from overheating. I always leave the vacuum on low & just make sure it's in the shade. No issues.

But I'm still hurt that you won't drive the 6 or 8 hours each way to shake hands... it really hurts!


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## TexasFreedom (Feb 25, 2016)

All,

TBA's convention was great. First of course there were a number of excellent presentations. I listened to one that described the many different behaviors of africanized bees.

Even better, I had a number of associates (more-helpful-than-friends!) test the vacuum. Some of the feedback echoed what I've heard here. Other feedback was what you'd only get with real hands-on. And I'm sure some learning won't come until others do hands-on cutouts with it.

But, I need to order a few components to make some of these changes. Give me a week. I'll be back with a new vac once I get the new parts in & hooked up. I'm excited. Rather than trying to explain all of them, I'll surprise you with a new video showing you all the changes.


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## JWPalmer (May 1, 2017)

Texasfreedom, have you considered putting the speed controller, battery, and on/off switch on a belt box? Then run a short cord to the vac motor. Might be easier to access and allow faster battery swaps if the controls are on your waist.


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## TexasFreedom (Feb 25, 2016)

JW,

That is an idea. I'd like to hear your thoughts supporting that further. I'm not sold on it, let me give some reasons on each piece.

Battery. It's about the size of a fist, weighs about 1.5 lbs. This vacuum still draws 10+- amps, you'll need at least 10ga wire. You'll be doubling the weight. Yes, you'll save 5-10 seconds on a battery change (or start with twice the battery at twice the weight). But 95% of the time you'll not change the battery. And at least 1/2 the time, I'm not even carrying the vacuum. If I'm on a ladder, I'll just strap the vac to the ladder. Or working out of a water meter (LOTS of those in Texas), it just sits on the ground.

Now, if someone is doing all-day cutouts, then yes, a bigger battery or belt-strap would make sense. I hadn't really thought about going bigger, but I think I could fit twice the battery in the same area on the vac (so 2 hours full speed, 4 hours 1/2 speed). I'll double check this.

Remote speed control/on-off, I have thought about that. I wouldn't put in on a belt-box. The reason is that when you twist/move, that cable will pull or hang on one thing or another. Ah well, this was one of the surprises I was saving. Rather than dangling out to a cord to the belt, one option is to run the cable up the shoulder strap. You can pick which side. But that cord won't be as much trouble. Does this make sense?

I was laughing. For a moment I thought "make a phone app", run off bluetooth. But trying to screen-activate my phone through my suit/gloves is very difficult (and yes, stylus would be great if they weren't small & lost every 8 minutes). Bad idea... might work great with gentle bees (no gloves), but would that really be any easier than using either switch?


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## RBRamsey (Mar 1, 2015)

TexasFreedom said:


> I assume you're missing a 'not' in there... too bad!


Oops, you guessed right.


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## RBRamsey (Mar 1, 2015)

TexasFreedom said:


> I wanted to ask more about the first part. Obviously the problem was not moving air. I suspect a key problem for you that day was how the bees 'pile' into your vac. Imagine you're at the bottom of the pile of guys at the goal line trying to gain the last 6" for a TD. 6 or 8 guys with their weight on top of you, compressing your chest and blocking all air flow. You could suffocate! Same with the bees. If you have 3" deep of bees on the floor of your container, the ones on top don't realize there's a problem and the ones on bottom can't get out to breathe. The heat builds up and no air movement to take it away. Your 105F reading was probably 120F at the bottom bee.
> 
> I had this problem with my first version. I went through a few 'methods' before I got to what I'm using now. Note I have over 4 square feet of surface area inside the bucket with ease for the bees to climb on almost all of it. And note that vibration can knock down many bees trying to climb, but my small vac doesn't vibrate like a shopvac would.
> 
> ...



I believe the humidity is the biggest source of the problem. On cooler less humid days, I loose very few. The example is of some of the worst days, not the more common, but I am looking to design for the worst days. In the example I was using, the temperature was in the mid 90s with a heat index of around 105-110. On these days is when I see the highest mortality rates. I compete with myself to cut-out the bees with the fewest bees lost, and the most eggs and larvae saved. The current box design has screen on 2 sides, I'll take some pictures later. It is the volume of nearly a 10 frame deep, and I try to swap boxes out about 3-4 pounds of bees on the really hot humid days. 

You still have more screened surface area than I do, and I will look at increasing the screened area. I guess there is probably just over 1 square foot in my box. I choose to keep the top of the box solid the help defuse the vacuum.

The blast gate was just an example of what one was. I build mine out of wood, and plexiglass. They are 3" in diameter. The actual blast gate is mount on the containment box that is inside of the vacuum box. I put the brood on bottom place an empty deep on top and the containment box fits nicely inside. After a day or so, I remove the containment box and spot the health of the brood, and bees.

I'm with you on leaving the truck running. I do the same thing. Once I suck the first bee into the vac, the vac doesn't get turned off until we are finished, or remove the box. Then, I have a box fan I put on them to keep them cool.

BTW, It's about a 12 hours drive. I wouldn't be the first the time I drove that far for a visit. But my other passion called dibs for me to go to a goat auction, and visit with those friends this weekend.


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## TexasFreedom (Feb 25, 2016)

New video!
https://youtu.be/D4sBBWLWBNs

Got the new parts in yesterday & implemented a number of the changes. A list:
* 2 straps. I can carry it as a backpack. I can also swap the straps and carry it over one shoulder.
* Bucket modified. It now protects the bottom vacuum/circuit/battery.
* I added the 'remote' switch. You can clip it where ever you'd like. On/Off, and vacuum control.
* Added more surface area for the bees to hang by to improve 'breathing' and near-zero dead bees.
* reduced weight. Now 7.5 pounds for everything (other than hose)

I've made a few other subtle changes. With the modified bucket, it can separate (vacuum from containment bucket), small strap of velcro resolved that. The two shoulder straps wanted to slide off, a little cross strap resolved that. Once I've used it in a cutout, I'll know where I want them & will sew them on (that may vary per person?).

Watch it, let me know what I missed. Oh, you also can see me vacuum up a few small acorns. And if you have a good eye, you'll get a chuckle from my Tshirt.

Comments?


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## RBRamsey (Mar 1, 2015)

It looks a lot better, and more comfortable for both the bees and and the beekeeper.

I really like the fact it is only 7.5lbs. I haven't weighed mine, but I am sure it is pushing 20lbs. 

The remote is similar to the idea I had for mine. I was looking to integrate the controls permanently into the shoulder strap, and have the whole contraption fitted into an actual backpack frame for more comfort. 

I like that there is even more surface area for the bees. This is area I am still lacking in. 

Richard


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## brushwoodnursery (Feb 10, 2012)

Looking great!


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## TexasFreedom (Feb 25, 2016)

OK, I'm back. Sorry, Thanksgiving & a whole new circuit spin have taken a few weeks.

A new video: https://youtu.be/Rm0foV3-r6c

I've redesigned the circuit. It has a few very nice features. The big change: the control knob and battery status indicators are now on a retractable cord with a clip so you can attach it anywhere. Video shows this much better than I can describe it. Also I've added a barrel connector so you can plug the charger straight into the circuit without unplugging the battery.

A question. I've made the status LED solid. I thought about making it flash to make it more noticable, but that would attract the bees to it more as well. Any thoughts there?

I'm not sure I've shown the latest interior area. I've now got 2 rings or wire for the bees to climb & create some air gap for themselves. There are 4 or 5 more changes, subtle little things that made a difference but boring to go into. Weight is still under 8 lbs with everything but the hose

A chuckle. We had a few inches of snow on Tuesday (this is Sunday), 'winter' in Texas is back to highs in the 60's/70's! It's my time to enjoy, come July it'll be a different discussion.

Comments?


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