# Fabric Inner Covers Anyone?



## DonShackelford (Jan 17, 2012)

As a painter I use heavy canvas fabric drop cloths. It occurred to me that making inner covers out of this heavy fabric would be economical and help with moisture control. I see plastic canvas in use as an inner cover but not fabric. Has anyone tried this?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

I have a friend who has used canvas which he got from an Army Surplus Tent. He now uses tar paper, which I don't care for. 

SHB love hanging out under cloth inner covers laying on the top bars. One will often find them there when removing the canvas.

Some folks use used plastic feed bags.


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## beeware10 (Jul 25, 2010)

I used to help a commercial beekeeper that would salvage old rugs and cut them up to work as inner covers. you are right about the moisture and they work good plus the price is right.


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## DonShackelford (Jan 17, 2012)

To expand, I made up some 3 season hive covers which are inner covers with room for styrofoam under the outer cover. The fabric would go above the inner cover and below the styrofoam. The outer cover goes above that. Think the SHB would live above the wood inner cover and in the fabric?

A further note, I plan to use these as hive top feeders as well, so there will be brood, inner cover, "Mel's Fluffy Fondant", canvas, styrofoam, and outer cover in that order. 
Thanks for your input.

Here's the link to Mel's Fluffy Fondant;
http://ribeekeeper.org/newsletters/fluffy_fondant.pdf

Here's the all season inner cover; 
http://www.honeyrunapiaries.com/store/all-season-inner-cover-p-232.html


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## mmiller (Jun 17, 2010)

I haven't used them myself....yet. I plan to give them a try this year. I figure either canvas or burlap.

Mike


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## KQ6AR (May 13, 2008)

People often use the plastic animal feed bags on boxes divided into double nucs. I think something that breathes better than a canvas tarp, might work better.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

I don't know anyone that uses used feedbags. We buy them new...they are a woven type, and i think breathe a little. I wouldn't use used ones unless.I knew what was in them.
deknow


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## mmiller (Jun 17, 2010)

any thought on the plastic versus cloth like burlap?

Mike


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

deknow said:


> I wouldn't use used ones unless.I knew what was in them.
> deknow


How concerned should one be about what kind of animal feed was in a plastic feed bag? Most of the ones I am familiar w/ have been used a number of times for everything from pelleted cattle feed or rabbit feed to cracked or whole corn. I'm not so sure that there would be anything to be too conserned about. What are you seeing that I might be missing, Dean?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

mmiller said:


> any thought on the plastic versus cloth like burlap?
> 
> Mike


The plastic will hold less moisture and will pull of easier. Thoiugh I don't think bees "like" either or any kind of cloth inner cover when they are being removed. Not like less invasive wooden inner covers which don't contact the top bars.


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## Nantom670 (Jul 29, 2011)

There is a lady out of Atlanta named Linda that has a site and she uses the fabric and it looks like a good way to examine your bees. Once the fabric is laid on the top super when she takes off the outer cover, she just rolls back enough fabric to expose a couple of frames which keeps a lot of the other bees from all coming out and she even uses another piece of fabric when she pulls out honey supers and places them into another to transport and that way that keeps bees from getting back on those frames. Here is the site: http://beekeeperlinda.blogspot.com/search/label/hive drape#uds-search-results. If I did not put that on right just put the beekeeperlinda.blogspot.com into your search and then in her search place fabric inner cover. You probably already knew that, but just in case. She has a lot of nice videos and pictures.


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## camero7 (Sep 21, 2009)

I use landscape fabric on my nucs. Breaths and bees don't chew it.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

sqkcrk said:


> How concerned should one be about what kind of animal feed was in a plastic feed bag?


I dunno...some feeds have antibiotics, some seed has systemic pesticides or fungicides....it's worth 60 cents a bag not to find out. Since not all bags are the same (not all are woven), and we liked what we had seen in Vermont on Kirk Webster and Mike Palmer's colonies, we just ordered new grain bags from the feed store down the street from Kirk so there were no surprises. Again, 60 cents for an inner cover that will last years is probably the smallest monetary investment you can make in a hive.

deknow


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

By "(not allo are woven)" are you refering to the brown heavy plastic bags? I've wondered about using them.

I understand your caution, but I can't imagine any, or much anyway, antibiotic contamination. But, I guess even miniscule doesn't fit your criteria, right? We all have our standards.


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## deknow (Jul 17, 2006)

I don't know if woven or not makes a difference. I don't know what might be in a used bag, where it might have been stored, or what the effects might be. I'm using it to produce food and cover my bees. I'm cheap, but 60 cents is cheap enough that I'll buy new from a known source of a known bag.

deknow


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## Michael Bush (Aug 2, 2002)

I have canvas inner covers on all my mating nucs. They work fine.


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## windfall (Dec 8, 2010)

We started this year with nucs from Kirk Webster. They came with the feedbag covers and at first we really liked them, simple and cheap. But being new we were in the hives pretty frequently and it seemed like quite a few bees were getting squished on top every time we closed back up. Friends who started with us found the same. we would try to smoke them down a bit. We would try to close up real slow and let them scoot away but it did not seem to help.

Is there a trick to help avoid this (like maybe just don't worry about it?)
Aside from low cost are there advantages to this system over a wooden IC when not being used on divided boxes?


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## Daddy'sBees (Jul 1, 2010)

I've found canvas or burlap cloth covers are great when you have bees that just want to "spill-over" when you open the hive. If you have some bees that are a little hot, they can help keep the bees in check. Perhaps it is a way of darkening the hive a bit, keeping them a little calmer. They can also be a way of collecting condensation and preventing a "drip" on the bees.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

windfall said:


> But being new we were in the hives pretty frequently and it seemed like quite a few bees were getting squished on top every time we closed back up.


How many is "quite a few"? Maybe, being new to beekeeping, what you are seeing is the normal amount. I have never noticed very many bees getting squashed using cloth inner covers.


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## windfall (Dec 8, 2010)

Not really all that many compared to hive population I guess. maybe 5-10.each time would be obvious the next time I opened up. But when I switched over to a wooden IC there would be none.


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## Ranger Cody (Jan 21, 2012)

Please forgive a novice asking more questions on the issue, but I was thinking about starting with burlap myself, so I'm glad that someone asked the question :applause: To further expand on the issue, I have been concerned about proper ventilation during the winter, as it's something that I'm not that educated about. What are all of your thoughts on developing a top box for langstroths similar to what they do in a Warre Hive? The box filled with cedar dust/leaves/ saw dust/etc... that has the burlap bottom? Just something I have been curious about. Do you think that will help with ventilation while at the same time preventing the bees from struggling to maintain temperature? Thanks for all the help.


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## windfall (Dec 8, 2010)

I should have been more clear about the crushed bees. It was not worries about damaging the population. It was mote a concern of making my already too frequent disturbances more disturbing by filling the hive with crushed bee/alarm scent at the end of each look see.


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## timgoodin (Mar 10, 2007)

I used woven plastic feed sacks this fall on some divided 10 frame deeps where the frame feeder made two 5 frame nucs on each side of the deep. I wanted something so I could work one side and not disturb the other. I turned the side exposed to goat pellets up so outside of bag had contact with the bees. There is a considerable amount of mositure condensed on the cold plastic and it does not breath as much as I would have liked. Lost one nuc to excessive mositure. In another case I had an actual burlap bag and used it the same way and it is perfectly dry inside those nucs. I plan on using either burlap or landscape fabric next year. I would not recommend the plastic stuff over winter. It worked fine in the warm weather over nucs but the cold will condense moisture on your bees.

Tim


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## lakebilly (Aug 3, 2009)

I use feedbags on nucs in summer, hemming the edges w/duct tape or sewing them may help in fraying aggravation.

I am not sure where or who (maybe MP, KW) uses woodchips for insulation around a super w/a feeder. 
I have been working on a top/inside winter cover that is woodchips, rigid foam & has a feeder/escape hole through the inner cover. The woodchips absorb moisture & insulate. 

Anybody doing something like this?


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

windfall said:


> I should have been more clear about the crushed bees. It was not worries about damaging the population. It was mote a concern of making my already too frequent disturbances more disturbing by filling the hive with crushed bee/alarm scent at the end of each look see.


Don't worry about it. It ain't that bad.


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## spunky (Nov 14, 2006)

Lakebilly:
No, I do have one of Tim's covers on my hives from Honeyrun aparies. I have thought about just making my own with mediums , but not using wood chips just the hard foam. Had one bunch of bees that completely propolised the inner wire feed hole during the summmer months


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## Joseph Clemens (Feb 12, 2005)

A couple of years ago we were Christmas gifted a very large assortment of new bath linen (towels, etc.), so I decided to use the old ones as inner covers on my nucs. I use pieces of polystyrene foam (styrofoam) as bottom boards and covers. For the most part it worked well, but once it rained I had a different problem. The towels became wet, wicking rain from their edges until some even began dripping water into the nucs - fortunately only one became so moist inside that all those bees developed mold on their body hairs - it looked crazy. I removed all those wet towels, many of which began to mold. Now, to keep the towels from getting wet, I cover the towels with pieces of 3 mil black plastic garbage bags, then their polystyrene outer covers. That has kept the towels dry and the bees dry, too. I have found that if I wait a minute or two after placing the towel, before adding the plastic and polystyrene covers, that very few bees are crushed. When the towels wear out, I'll see what works best as a replacement, I'll probably try canvas.

During the Winter most of my nucs are on five frames in the bottom of two boxes, the top box is empty, and their entrance is between the two boxes (where the top box is slid back enough for an entrance slot in front). The space is used for pollen sub patties and jars of sugar syrup. This has been working quite well. In the Summer I place an additional five frames in the upper box, where the nucs quickly expand into them. Then it becomes rather easy to split them to make more nucs or install them in full-size hives, for increase or replacement.


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Ranger Cody said:


> similar to what they do in a Warre Hive? The box filled with cedar dust/leaves/ saw dust/etc... that has the burlap bottom?


I've done this before just for curiosity, and it works fine. But it doesn't really work any better than having lots of top ventilation. In my climate anyway. 

I've also tried both cloth and poly-cloth inner covers, which also work fine except as Mark mentioned they create a nice SHB space. You don't want any places that beetles can hide, but don't let bees in. They also take longer to work on and off when you get more than a few hives.


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## sqkcrk (Dec 10, 2005)

How often are mice found nesting snuggly in such a thing?


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## David LaFerney (Jan 14, 2009)

Hah! That would be a Kodak (YouTube now I guess) moment, but they would have to climb all the way to the top of the hive - which of course they could do. I only did it one winter when I only had 2 hives, and there weren't really any problems like that. The wood shavings I used got moist with condensation when it was really cold, but then they dried out when the weather changed. I figured that was water that did not drip on my bees - none of which died - but then again propping the lid up with a 1x1 seems to work just as well. And being naturally lazy I prefer the easier yet still effective way. Which just so happens to be a variation of the tried and true. Imagine that?


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## DonShackelford (Jan 17, 2012)

I was given a partial roll of Tyvek building wrap yesterday. I'm going to give it a try on a few hives. It allows moisture out but not in, is pretty strong, impervious to weather, and economical by the roll. 3'x100' about $50 at Menards.


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