# I need a hayfield <gulp> sprayed for briars/wild blackberries...



## rweakley (Jul 2, 2004)

Thinking outside the box here. Could you bring in some goats to clean it up? They are more likely to eat the tough stuff as opposed to grass.


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## jwcarlson (Feb 14, 2014)

rweakley said:


> Thinking outside the box here. Could you bring in some goats to clean it up? They are more likely to eat the tough stuff as opposed to grass.


Would a goat be any different than mowing them? I doubt they're going to dig up and eat briar roots.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

No offense intended, but I started to post a "no goats" restriction in my first post.  Goats would require about a mile of new fencing. Thanks for the thought, though.

Ed


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

As for the goats grazing the briars down...yes, it is possible for them to do that though it might take several years. I know that grazing kudzu down works...basically you have to graze it hard so that the plant starves from lack of food producing foliage....and again, it takes several years.

Years ago farmers ran cows through the "hills and hollers" and you could walk through the woods at ease. Not many do that now as it has become a "science". Now, in a natural stand of timber you will have a jolly good time walking down to the creek. Behind my house is a formidable stand of large pines with a jungle beneath it. When cows ran it, you could walk anywhere. 

Ed


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## grozzie2 (Jun 3, 2011)

We had a somewhat similar issue with the place we bought last fall. An acre out back had been logged about 15 years ago, then essentially abandoned. It had burn piles that never got burned, over the years they became compost piles. It was fully overrun by first quackgrass and blackberries, with a few alders standing as high as 8 feet when we started in January. First I had a big excavator in, got the place leveled and the scrub alders cleared out. In early May after it dried out enough, little excavator did some cleanup on the grades, and fixed up some ditching to get better drainage. Two weeks ago I had fencing crew in, and a fella with a rockhound on the bobcat. That gadget actually says 'landscape rake' on the side, but most folks around here call it a rockhound. That gadget served two purposes, it rakes out the worst of the rocks, and with them came a huge amount of roots etc. When all was said and done, this is what it looked like just before the seed went down.



The pile on the right that you can just see the corner of, is about 7 feet high, and it's a mixture of dirt and roots dug up by the machine while it pulled rocks and roots out. Still have a small burn pile, the bigger stuff that was waterlogged, and didn't burn completely when we burned the pile this spring. I'll finish burning that down later this summer, when it's dried out.

Our case was a bit different, because we needed to level the ground first, but that last machine that was in, did a dandy job of getting a lot of the scrub, roots and all. We put clover seed on Friday evening, then pulled a rake over it all with the lawn tractor. Theory is, what is left viable in any roots left behind, will end up smothered by the clover, only time will tell if theory and reality match up. But, it's going to be a fantastic bee yard now. That's a 7 foot fence with barb at the top, should keep both bambi and yogi out.

Dunno how much time / effort / money you want to spend on the project, but, a run over with the brushog to get it clear down to the surface, then run over with with that rake taking out roots like this one did, should give you a chance to get something planted that'll smother whats left of the brambles. That's the theory anyways, and if you aren't in a hurry, check back with me next summer, I'll be able to tell you if it worked.


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## Vance G (Jan 6, 2011)

Let me see, a beekeeper who prefers grass to a gourmet honey crop flower source???? If you are hard up and need the hay maybe we can take up a collection.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

I have reclaimed several areas overrun with wild blackberries, english rose, oregon grape, small hardwoods and small cedars totaling about 3/4 an acre by regular mowing. (The first pass was _slow going_ with a chainsaw, loppers and a Billy Goat brush mower.) After a couple of seasons, the vines and canes give up.

I didn't spray herbicides because I was at the same time planting raspberries and _thornless _blackberries. In some instances I 'painted' full-strength glyphosate on cut [hardwood] stumps to prevent resprouting.

The herbicide _Crossbow _can be use to target blackberry plants and allow grasses to remain. A neighbor applied Crossbow to the areas along the heavily overgrown fence lines of a hayfield and I observed no damage to the hay area. 

You may be interested in this page on blackberry control: http://extension.oregonstate.edu/gardening/node/580


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## crewdog61 (Oct 23, 2012)

I would brush hog it all down low, then turn ground under (deep) let it sit for a couple of weeks then rake into a pile and burn. Plant it with a clover wild flower mix if you are wanting it for bees, for hay plant alpha/clover mix.


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## Harley Craig (Sep 18, 2012)

if you are worried about killing your bees, just bushog it when they are not in bloom or at night and when the regrowth gets about 6in tall and no flowers spray it with whatever weed killer of your choice as the bees will not have any interest in it again.


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## Danpa14 (Jun 12, 2013)

Remedy ultra(triclopyr) is pretty effective on blackberries. Mow in the fall and then spray in the spring or mow now and spray in the fall. Fall spraying is supposed to be better. and spraying while berries are growing decreases success. Ypung leaves soak up the spray better, that is why mowing now and spraying later is good. I sprayed a grown up field this spring with remedy and it was very effective. Now it is in buckwheat and in September I will plant white and yellow clover. Bees will be satisfied with my efforts I think. Maybe Vance won't be though. Along the side of the field I sewed black eyed susans, joe pye weed, cosmos, poppies, salvia and a bunch of other wild flower seed.


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## Danpa14 (Jun 12, 2013)

Oh and once you get the weeds controlled frost seed some clover in Febuary or rent a seeder and seed it.


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## heaflaw (Feb 26, 2007)

I have 70 acres in permanent pasture. Blackberries and especially dewberries had become a big problem in much of it. A few weeks ago I sprayed about 200 gallons of Remedy(don't mix another herbicide with it). Make sure you add the proper amount of Surfactant. Read the instructions and make sure you are at the proper ground speed for the correct dosage for proper coverage. Briars should not be bushhogged for at least 6 months and preferably a year prior to spraying. Remedy works on briars that are mature and does not do nearly as well on immature plants. It is most effective during or just after bloom. (Sorry, bees) I just extracted a bumper crop of honey. It shouldn't affect the bees much if at all. It seems to be working well. There were some young plants that I assume came from last year's seed and I expect some of that to regrow and have to do spot spraying next spring. 

My info came from my local Agr Agent plus:

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ag238

http://www.aces.edu/pubs/docs/A/ANR-2145/ANR-2145.pdf

http://www.lsuagcenter.com/NR/rdonl...-48E1B2AB0E51/79078/2011BeefForageReport1.pdf

Good luck.

PS: My Ag Agent said proper lime (which I hadn't done) will help prevent the problem.


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## justusflynns (Aug 2, 2012)

Craigslist ad - just in time for fall planting - free organic blackberries, you dig - first come, first served

Will be gone in no time during the right time of year.


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

WE have goats they eat the tops. Roundup kills them back but still the runners manage to survive. Best we do is dig up the root balls and keep at it. Burning off the rubbish only seems to make the next crop of them stronger.


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

You've gotten some good advice on herbicides with Remedy and Crossbow. I think Remedy may be a restricted use herbicide, but it may not be, it's been a while since I bought any. 

I don't mind blackberries on fence rows but I won't let them grow in one of our fields. 

It's your land, don't let the naysayers dissuade you from doing as you wish.

Alfalfa was suggested as a crop in one post. Alfalfa won't make it in Crenshaw county. I have a nice little field of it here, but I'm 3 1/2 hours north of you and live on a mountain. Your two best choices to plant would be to sprig a good variety of bermuda, like Tifton 44, or to plant Bahia grass. I hate Bahia, but it does well in your area. Tifton 44 bermuda is an "open crown" bermuda, meaning that it's growth habit allows sunlight to penetrate deeply enough to plant a companion crop with it. If you want to make it bee friendly you could plant a Ladino clover, like Durana or Patriot with the bermuda. Having clover in the field will greatly limit your choices on herbicide treatments in the future.


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## Blessed Farms (Jun 12, 2012)

I second Brad Bee. The way this year is going for us, lots of rain and no time to cut, hay is going to be valuable. I've had luck with the 2,4-D and as long as you mix it right you won't necessarily kill the clover stands but it will stun them.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

I have a similar problem with wild plums at my mother's farm. I was thinking of using a contact herbicide like that used in the cranberry bogs. It is put on a foam roller, and since the weeds are taller than the cranberries, only the weeds touch the roller. This may be called a "wick" application. 

I will contact my cranberry buddy, and reply back.

Crazy Roland


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

I third Brad bee. 
It is your land, manage it to your liking. I find a great healthy hayfield with grasses and white clover to be of great value to the bees. Some might see killing blackberries and goldenrod as a slight towards your bees. These are two hardy plants that can grow ANYWHERE. Goldenrod is a weed around here. Ditches are full of it, as they are with wild blackberries. Bushhog fairly high, 6-8", wait until the new leaves are emerging fairly good, 1-2 weeks here, then spray with whatever herbicide you want ( I choose not to recommend any specific products, just check the label). I would recomend waiting 2 weeks and re-applying the herbicide for a solid kill. Keep bushhogged at a lower setting and spray as needed for the remainder of summer. By the fall your field should be ready for no till planting of grasses and legumes. See your local extension agent. Ours has a no till tow behind planter we can use for free, just sign up. Keep in mind, this plan will obviously keep you from cutting hay this year, and probably next, at least not a first cutting next year while the new field gets established. However, in the long run you should have a productive hayfield for the future. From the looks of the pictures, no matter what you do you have no chance of harvesting hay of any value this year or in the future without serious changes. The changes outlined above, in my opinion are the most cost effective way to turn an overgrown pasture into a hayfield. Good luck. G :thumbsup:


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## biggraham610 (Jun 26, 2013)

Roland said:


> I have a similar problem with wild plums at my mother's farm. I was thinking of using a contact herbicide like that used in the cranberry bogs. It is put on a foam roller, and since the weeds are taller than the cranberries, only the weeds touch the roller. This may be called a "wick" application.
> 
> I will contact my cranberry buddy, and reply back.
> 
> Crazy Roland


I have found this wicking application to be good for certain weeds in hayfields, milkweed for example. My concern is the heavy establishment of the blackberries. I fear most if not all of the favorable grasses below them have been choked out. JMO. I think for a desireable hayfield there needs to be a fresh start. JMO. Good Luck. G


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## Tim KS (May 9, 2014)

Google up a label for Tordon and see what that says about blackberries. It's good on woody plants & broadleaf weeds.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Whoa...wasn't expecting all the feedback, thanks everybody!!! I've read and re-read the posts. To clarify things we rent the fields out for haying. There's a total of about 80 acres of hayfields scattered around the place. The rent pays the property taxes. The guy renting feeds his on cows and is in the process of increasing his herds so he was happy to get the acreage with the understanding he would need to work on the land. Basically I'm just wanting to get the field around the house cleaned up so if the grandkids want to fly a kite or just tear out running through it...they can, and if I or my best half wants to walk out through it...we can. 

I called the rentor today but he hadn't come in yet. His wife said that he had talked with the folks down at the co-op about spraying. I'll talk with him tomorrow about what he thinks.  His wife did say the co-op told him to wait till this fall to spray them which goes along with what I've read on Dow's website which is similar to spraying kudzu...hit it while it's storing food in it's roots. A problem with that is that golden rod will be blooming then and there is some scattered in this patch. I don't want to spray it if the bees are working it. We'll just have to seen how the timing works out.

The grass is bahia. Seems I saw one of the chemicals that would kill the Pensacola Bahia...I'm under the impression that that is what we have so I'll have to be careful I don't pick that one. There is still bahia beneath/between the briars, along with a low growing yellow clover of some sort and miscellaneous wild flowers. A downer that I'll have to spray all of that, but it's gotta be done.

I've found that trying to plow up or otherwise break up invasive plant species here in the south is basically an act of pruning and the plants thrive from it. Each little bit of root that is broken or cut apart seems to create a new plant....the wonderful warmth, humidity, and non-freezing temps promte some dense vegetation.

I'll be reviewing the posts over and over, I'm sure, so if in a day or a month I respond to your comment don't be surprised.  I *really* appreciate your help and suggestions.

Vince G, I appreciate your kind offer but keep your money...maybe go buy yourself some bananas with it, they're good for you...lots of potassium. 

Ed


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## TWall (May 19, 2010)

You may want to talk with your tenent and both decide what works for both of you. With a severe infestation you/he may be farther ahead to clear everything out and then reseed with th emost preoductive hay mix. Sometimes trying to clean up a field and get a hay crop at the same time never really accomplishes either goal.

Tom


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## spreerider (Jun 23, 2013)

i would turn the soil deep and rake out the roots and leftovers, burn it and then rerake again then level and plant a high quality pasture mixture very heavily and make sure it all comes up nicely then the grass and other plants will help keep the blackberries down.
even if you spray your going to have dead patches that will grow back as weeds after the black berries are gone.


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

Ed, I thought I'd go ahead and volunteer to come keep the deer thinned out around your place. I'll protect your bee hives from those crazy ol deer.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

<chuckle> I've had a problem with armadillos digging up the yard over the last few months. Killed three of'em about a month ago. Then the holes started getting BIGGER!!! Huh??? So, I sat up a game camera trying to figure out their schedule. Dang, I got more deer pictures than I did armadillo ones.<sigh> How'bout the armadillos?...wanta come thin those out?<grin>

Ed


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## jim81147 (Feb 18, 2013)

Escort works pretty good on many brush species and wont harm your grass . Tordon 22K is a restricted use chemical ( atleast in the state of Colorado ) and requires a license to spray .


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## Live Oak (Oct 11, 2008)

Spraying herbicides will kill the blackberries/briars but they will dry up and become very difficult to cut. You will have to rotary cut the field anyway you work this in my opinion. 

Save on the herbicides and rotary cut the area and keep up with the rotary cutting every couple of weeks or so. Grass and clover like to be cut. Weeds, blackberries, and briars DO NOT and will gradually fade out with continued cutting. 

This is what I do with my fields. Once I have the blackberries and briars pretty much whipped, I cut these area with a zero turn mower with the mower set on the highest adjustment height setting of about 5.5 inches. With a 72 inch zero turn mower, I can keep up with anything a similar width rotary cutter can PROVIDED I keep the fields cut on a regular basis. In my case it was blackberries and pigweed. 

I later went back over the Winter and seeds these areas in Yellow Sweet Clover to help fix soil nitrogen, break up the hard pan soil as well as a very tasty cover crop for my bees.

The trick to attacking overgrown blackberries and briars is to back the tractor into the bushes rotary cutter FIRST. You will be able to cut down any height blackberries this way.


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## Roland (Dec 14, 2008)

Spoke with my buddy from cranberry country, and he says roundup on a sponge or rag will work. A piece of PVC pipe covered in scrounged carpet would work too. He felt the Roundup was acceptable, but said there is a 250 dollar a gallon herbicide that is even more effective, but probably not necessary. 

Good luck.

Crazy Roland


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Just got a surprise phone call from the guy doing the hayfields that he is coming to spray. I thought we would discuss this more and also the herbicide choice. The co-op apparently sold him SURMOUNT by DOW...MSDS> http://www.cdms.net/LDat/mp6MG013.pdf

Here is the mention of honey bees. I just don't know what this means. A quick response would be welcomed!!!!!

Toxicity to Above Ground Organisms
oral LD50, Apis mellifera (bees): > 200 micrograms/bee

Thanks!!!!
Ed

ETA: I understand what LD50 means...just not if the > 200 micrograms per bee is reasonable or highly toxic?????


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

I'm reading on the UGA website that LD50 of greater than 11 micrograms are safe for honey bees. Going by that it seems that Surmount is "ok". ??????

Ed


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Hmm, it's main ingredient is "picloram" which has an "Acute Toxicity to Honey Bees (Technical): = 14.5 micrograms per bee"...a lot higher toxicity than what is listed in the final product of Surmount...Surmount's lower LD50 is probably from the picloram being diluted with the other ingredients. ????????????

Ed


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Well, it looks like we're going ahead with the spraying. I'll report back with what I find. The briars are terrible and something does have to be done, so hopefully this will do it with a little impact on the bees as possible. The sprayer has been instructed to leave an unsprayed perimeter around the fields and they are aware of the bee hives and to back off from them a piece. Surmount has a 12 REI so I want be going to the bee hives for at least that long.

Ed


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## mac (May 1, 2005)

run some hogs they will clean up everything and grass fed organic bacon will 
make you a rich man. Think outside of the hay field


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Thanks for the idea, mac. No fencing, and current domestic hog prices are intimidating. Of course, if I wait a while the wild hogs will be here.<groan> Thankfully we have dodge the wild hog epidemic on our place....only a mile or two away there are hayfields and crop fields that the hogs have ruined. inch:

Ed


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## WBVC (Apr 25, 2013)

rweakley said:


> Thinking outside the box here. Could you bring in some goats to clean it up? They are more likely to eat the tough stuff as opposed to grass.


We have goats..they eat everything!! but when they are pulled off everything grows back


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

A follow-up on the Surmount. I'm not a happy camper. The bees *seem* to have taken it ok, but what I'm finding out this stuff is very persistent in the soil and basically the land is only good for *grass plants* for several years. Does anyone know anything about this SURMOUNT/PICLORAM chemical/herbicide? No one informed me (the renter did *not* talk to me until the local coop's spray rig was headed that way. Shouldn't the landowner have been notified before a herbicide of this type was put down on 80 acres?


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

Picloram is the culprit on the soil residue. It will be with you a couple of years and nothing you can do about it that I know of. One year post spraying is usually enough time for broadleafs to grow again although they may have curled leaves and be stunted.

If you leased the land for farming practices then I don't see that you should have been consulted when the guy was just following common farming practices to improve the hay field. I own land and lease land and the people I lease land from told me to take care of theirs like I take care of mine. That pretty much means do as I please. Your situation and agreement might have been different.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

Brad Bee said:


> Picloram is the culprit on the soil residue. It will be with you a couple of years and nothing you can do about it that I know of. One year post spraying is usually enough time for broadleafs to grow again although they may have curled leaves and be stunted.
> 
> If you leased the land for farming practices then I don't see that you should have been consulted when the guy was just following common farming practices to improve the hay field. I own land and lease land and the people I lease land from told me to take care of theirs like I take care of mine. That pretty much means do as I please. Your situation and agreement might have been different.


Thanks for the reply, Brad.

The rental is verbal, a handshake. The renter and I discussed the spraying and the agreement was that he would contact me with the name of the herbicide that he was considering so that I could research it before any spraying was done. The call I got was "they're on their way to spray" and then I was given the name of the spray.

Yes, picloram is what I'm concerned about. I've seen a half-life stated of between 20-300 days, where at the worse case scenario (300 day half-life) it will break down to a "safe" level in year five (if I figured it correctly). We are sitting at year two at the moment.


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## cervus (May 8, 2016)

^This (Brad Bee). Same with my tenant. You can plant back in 12 months with a bioassay. And I honestly can't see the problem if the field(s) are to remain in hay. We just sprayed about 1200 ac. on federal land last year for blackberries....Garlon and Opensight due to the Pensacola Bahia underneath. It will require some frequent mowing early on. The residual pre-emergent properties of Picloram was most probably the reason for the co-op recommendation...less maintenance.


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## cervus (May 8, 2016)

Intheswamp said:


> Yes, picloram is what I'm concerned about. I've seen a half-life stated of between 20-300 days, where at the worse case scenario (300 day half-life) it will break down to a "safe" level in year five (if I figured it correctly). We are sitting at year two at the moment.


Half-life? If it's a 300 day half-life, then 600 days and it would be gone, undetectable. The label states that it's safe for plant back after 12 months. They caveat that with a bioassay clause due to liability. I would do one though. Your local Farm Service Agency can put you in touch with your District Soil Conservationist.


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## Rader Sidetrack (Nov 30, 2011)

cervus said:


> Half-life? If it's a 300 day half-life, then 600 days and it would be gone, undetectable.


That's not how a pesticide half-life calculation works. Here is an illustration of the calc ...










That graphic is from the National Pesticide Information Center. See the full page here: http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/half-life.html

So after 300 days x 5 half-lives 3% of the original applied pesticide level would remain. That is 1500 days, or slightly over 4 years.

.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

cervus said:


> Half-life? If it's a 300 day half-life, then 600 days and it would be gone, undetectable. The label states that it's safe for plant back after 12 months. They caveat that with a bioassay clause due to liability. I would do one though. Your local Farm Service Agency can put you in touch with your District Soil Conservationist.


That is not how it works. Half-life is a form of a first-order exponential decay constant. It basically means that if you have x concentration or mass at, you will have x/2 concentration or mass at the half-life point (somewhere between 20 and 200 days, in this case). Here is an example with an initial concentration of 200 ppm and a half-life of 50 days. Note that at each half-life interval of 50 days, the concentration has diminished by 1/2 of the preceding value.



*Day**Concentration (ppm)*120050100100501502520012.52506.253003.1253501.56254000.781254500.3906255000.1953125


Here it is in graphical form:


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

Regardless of the stated half life, it's not going to kill broadleafs in the soil for 5 years. We use to use Grazon P+D in our pastures to control Redroot Pigweed, a nasty weed. It has Picloram in it. Despite the Picloram, we have to spray ever year to control the pigweed. The concentration of Picloram in Grazon P+D may be less than in the chemical used in your hay field, that I don't know. Regardless, you can get an assay done, or just plant some squash or some garden vegetable and see if they are okay or not. If they have curled leaves, then they are being affected by the Picloram.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

What if you were going to plant pines on it or graze chickens free range on it...picloram in the eggs? It's a year-to-year agreement.

Thanks for the continued help.


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## FlowerPlanter (Aug 3, 2011)

Is there any CRP programs? Might pay you more than a share crop on hay.


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## Nabber86 (Apr 15, 2009)

Brad Bee said:


> Regardless of the stated half life, it's not going to kill broadleafs in the soil for 5 years.


That is why I cringe whenever somebody mentions half-life. If the half-is reported as between 20 and 600 days, that means that one experiment resulted in 20 days, one experimented resulted in 600 days, any many other experiments yielded values between 20 and 600 days. Plus the experiments are conducted under various environmental conditions (aerobic, anaerobic, photolysis, hydrolysis, in soil, in groundwater, etc.). It is a great classroom excercise to help learn about exponents (interesting point is that the concentration, according to the equations, never reaches zero. It's like the riddle about walking half way across a room, then walking half the remaining distance, then half the distance again; you never reach the other side of the room). 

In real life it is pretty much worthless. One camp will claim 20 days and the other camp will choose 600 days. I have seen cases where the arguments went on longer than the highest half-life value. If actual field trials prove that it is safe to plant the following season, that is all you need to know for application. You don't need a bunch of scientists in white lab coats doing bench scale studies. You will also never see half-life data on a bottle of pesticide.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 5, 2011)

I certainly thank everyone for all this input. Brad, you're making me feel better about this, too. In reality, it appears a bioassay is what would really tell me what I need to know. 

I haven't checked yet on the crp....with open land becoming less and less due to the "pine trees in rows" phenomenon I'm a bit hesitant to got that direction.


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## cervus (May 8, 2016)

Ah, I see now. Half of the starting amount after each period. Not half of the initial amount. Half-life maths are hard.


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## ethanhogan (Jun 1, 2016)

Where do you live?? I'd come get them all haha.. Put on some long sleeves, boots, and pants. Pick every berry on there. Turn it into jam. I would make enough to buy you lots of hay from one day at the farmers market for organic blackberry jam.


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## GOODMAN VALLEY HONEY (Jul 4, 2012)

INTHESWAP, I bought some ground that is in CRP and not taken care of. I cut the trees off and had it sprayed in June to handle the same problems you have. The service had me bush hog the ground off and let it grow about a week and them sprayed it with a mixture of Choice Weather, GrazonNext, Remedy, and LI700. So far it looks like it has taken care of most all of the broadleaf, vines, brambles, and any trees that were trying to grow back. Oh and the 5 hives in this outyard, 5 feet from the edge of the spraying, are doing great. We discussed the bees being there and not wanting to harm them in anyway. He studied up and said it would not be a problem for them. I was told it would not do any good to plant anything for about 4 months because it would not germinate which was ok with me as it is CRP anyway. It cost about $25 an acre to have it sprayed and so much of my problems cleared up. Hope that helps you some.


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## Brad Bee (Apr 15, 2013)

ethanhogan said:


> organic blackberry jam.


He won't be selling anything certified organic for a while. I forget how long it is after some herbicide applications (Picloram is one of them) before you can grow "certified organic" things but it's several YEARS.


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## cervus (May 8, 2016)

3 years.


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